# Working Chest,benc,,etc. when you have sore lats from back day?



## badboi (Nov 28, 2006)

should you still do bench press when you have sore lats from a back day? given it is used a lot in benching?


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## Double D (Nov 28, 2006)

I would go ahead and give it another days rest. Are your chest workouts and your back workouts that close?


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## CowPimp (Nov 28, 2006)

I workout all the time while I'm sore.  I don't let that stop me.  Rest if you are uber sore and your body is crying out to rest a day though.  Listening to your body is important.


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## fufu (Nov 28, 2006)

I have hit 1RM PR's while being sore, but I wasn't _very_ sore. I have skipped days because it was just too much, usually a lower day.


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## Mudge (Nov 28, 2006)

This is why chest day always comes before back IMO.


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## CowPimp (Nov 29, 2006)

fufu said:


> I have hit 1RM PR's while being sore, but I wasn't _very_ sore. I have skipped days because it was just too much, usually a lower day.



The last time I pulled a deadlift PR my glutes and hamstrings were damned sore.


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## fufu (Nov 29, 2006)

Mudge said:


> This is why chest day always comes before back IMO.



I work two upper body days a week. One day I will train push before pull, then pull before push.


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## Witchblade (Nov 29, 2006)

Lats used a lot in benching? As antagonizers, a bit yes. They're not targeted though.

Just pump it.


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## vortrit (Nov 29, 2006)

I did my new push routine last night. I think, my lats are more sore than than ever been, so that's a good thing I hope.


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## swordfish (Nov 29, 2006)

i actually get sore in my lats from doing bench, as well as my triceps shoulders and chest


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## Double D (Nov 29, 2006)

I hear to many people say lift while sore. It has always been a serious no no in my book. Theres no reason not to take it easy one more day. Now maybe slightly sore I could see it, but if your body is screamin "godamn I am sore", then it is just silly to go from there. This is just speaking from experience. I find it easy to hit 1rm pr's while sore or not, it really doesnt make a difference, but seems like it would be hard on you in the long run. So again I stress, why not take 1 more day off, its not the end of the world.


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## CowPimp (Nov 29, 2006)

Double D said:


> I hear to many people say lift while sore. It has always been a serious no no in my book. Theres no reason not to take it easy one more day. Now maybe slightly sore I could see it, but if your body is screamin "godamn I am sore", then it is just silly to go from there. This is just speaking from experience. I find it easy to hit 1rm pr's while sore or not, it really doesnt make a difference, but seems like it would be hard on you in the long run. So again I stress, why not take 1 more day off, its not the end of the world.



So you force your body to adapt.  Many times I start a full body program to find myself really sore the first few sessions.  Then my body adapts and it fades.


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## Witchblade (Nov 30, 2006)

CP, do you think it's a good thing to really feel your lats when, say, benching?


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## CowPimp (Nov 30, 2006)

Witchblade said:


> CP, do you think it's a good thing to really feel your lats when, say, benching?



Yes.  If I'm really in my benching groove I can feel them.  I can usually feel my glutes firing pretty good when I have my leg drive on point too.


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## Double D (Nov 30, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> So you force your body to adapt.  Many times I start a full body program to find myself really sore the first few sessions.  Then my body adapts and it fades.



And this is why I dont do total body workouts. I want my body to be 100% before tearing it down again. I see no reason to tear a muscle down again before it has had a chance to recover. Keep in mind you use the time of rest to recover and if a muscle is not completly recovered from its last workout, then your muscle hasnt reached its full recovery potential. Am I making sense? Its always been a philosophy that I have always went by. Now like I say on here all the time, "to each is own". If you can get by with doing it the way you do then thats great, but this is what works best for me.


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## P-funk (Nov 30, 2006)

Double D said:


> And this is why I dont do total body workouts. I want my body to be 100% before tearing it down again. I see no reason to tear a muscle down again before it has had a chance to recover. Keep in mind you use the time of rest to recover and if a muscle is not completly recovered from its last workout, then your muscle hasnt reached its full recovery potential. Am I making sense? Its always been a philosophy that I have always went by. Now like I say on here all the time, "to each is own". If you can get by with doing it the way you do then thats great, but this is what works best for me.



well, we know that metabolic recovery takes palce within' a 48hr window.

but, that is not what you are talking about or what Cowpimp is talking about, and actually, you are kind of on the right page BUT you are missing a little bit....

Lets think about it:

1) the way we make progress is we adapt to specific demands that we place on our body.  Pretty simple right?  If I go out and walk 3 miles to work everday, the first few days might be hell, after that, it isn't so bad and then after a number of weeks it is a walk in the park.  How do I get better...I run to work or, I take a route that is a longer distance.

2) the main goal of any program (body building, strength training, endurance) is to create a stimulus that forces our body to adapt, adapt to that stimulus (ie, we get better....bigger, stroner, can run further) and then we try and adapt to a greater stimulus.

This was defined by Hans Selye as General Adaptation Syndrome (GAS).  Basically there are three phases:

1) the alarm phase- we stress our system.

2) adaptation or resistnace phase- now we can respond to the alarm phase by recognizing the stimulus and adapt to it.

3) exhaustion- this is the phase of overtraining....we have gone to far.  our body is broken down and no longer able to keep up.


This, in a nut shell, is what you are describing.  you feel that...."if I train total body 3 times a week, I am not going to be able to recover enough".....and you are correct, to a certain point.  this was basically the idea that HIT was spawnd from....we go in and train balls to the wall on monday and then we don't do it again until thursday.


Somewhere down the road someone took Seles idea and went a step further with it and developed the two-factor model to fatigue (sele's was a single factor).  basically, this model said.....you train and you develop BOTH fitness and fatigue.  As this happens, the fatigue mounts up and masks the fitness gains and your body starts to break down (you are never fully recovered because of the build up of fatigue), so downt he road you need to "un-load" and allow the fatigue to disipate and the new acquired fitness levels, which last approx. 2 weeks longer than the fatigue, to manifest themself.  So basically, it was....train hard for a few weeks and really push the envelope, then back off and reap the benefits of that hard work.

Now, bringing this full circle to the total body workout.  First, most people don't do a total body workout 3 days a week and go balls to the wall failure all our intensity on each day (at least not smart people), even the Bill Starr Program is written to properly account for training variables and intensity.  So, the first benefit is that we can work on a variety of energy systems with the total body workout.....strength one day, hypertrophy or power the next, endurance/metabolic conditioning the day after that.  If we manipulate volume and intensity properly, there shouldn't be to much soreness (if any) and one you adapt (there's that word again) you wont have any of the soreness that you had in the first place.  Or, like the Bill Starr program, you can look at it as a mini-2 factor program taking place in a weeks time....day 1= volume (5x5 with a constant weight), day 2= unload (5x5 with 20% less intensity then monday), day 3= intensity (1x5 with a max weight).  Pretty cool, eh?  Then if you put it on a grander scale, you can do that for several weeks, creatine fitenss and fatigue (ie over reach), take a back off week (unload, allowing fatigue to dispate and allowing fitness levels to be seen) and then work a 3x3 program (drop the volume and increase the intensity....taking advantage of the new fitness levels).

Or, if we look at it on a more basic level, kind of blending what you are saying, you could traing total body for 3-4 weeks and really work at it, back off for a week, and then drop the volume/increase intensity to push, legs, pull.  Again, we achieved levels of fitness and fatigue with total body training, we unloaded to let fatigue disipate, we dropped volume and intensified our gains.


hope that makes sense and helps in your program planning.


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## Double D (Nov 30, 2006)

This does make sense. And this is a very good post. On the norm I go all out on almost every workout. This is why I dont do total body, I am much to stubborn. However I do implement a deload or a week off every 2 months or so. Its just what I have always done. I have had great success with everything I have did in the past (not saying what you are saying is wrong, because its not I believe it is right on!). However I always think that rest is more important than pushing the envelope and training while sore. I do think that the body would adapt and CP is right there. I on a personal standpoint cant allow my body to train while sore. I absolutly love lifting weights and I dont want to take it to a point where I dread going to the gym and thats a big reason why I wouldnt want to train while I was sore. 

With all that being said I think you explained yourself very well and you have however opened my eyes to some things. If I ever do decide to do a total body workout then I will be sure to add some of the things that you touched on. Appreciate the time you took to write all of that, it is good information.


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## CowPimp (Dec 6, 2006)

Double D said:


> This does make sense. And this is a very good post. On the norm I go all out on almost every workout. This is why I dont do total body, I am much to stubborn. However I do implement a deload or a week off every 2 months or so. Its just what I have always done. I have had great success with everything I have did in the past (not saying what you are saying is wrong, because its not I believe it is right on!). However I always think that rest is more important than pushing the envelope and training while sore. I do think that the body would adapt and CP is right there. I on a personal standpoint cant allow my body to train while sore. I absolutly love lifting weights and I dont want to take it to a point where I dread going to the gym and thats a big reason why I wouldnt want to train while I was sore.
> 
> With all that being said I think you explained yourself very well and you have however opened my eyes to some things. If I ever do decide to do a total body workout then I will be sure to add some of the things that you touched on. Appreciate the time you took to write all of that, it is good information.



Generally when I start a new program I will be pretty sore the first week, then it's fine.  I don't find training while sore an issue at all really.  I kind of forget I'm sore when I'm training; the pain seems to dissapear temporarily.


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## AKIRA (Dec 7, 2006)

Kinda like when your quads are screaming from squats, the screams your hamstrings give from doing deadlifts make you forget that you even did squats earlier!


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## AKIRA (Dec 7, 2006)

I dont like working out when I am sore, but Ive done it from time to time and its been accidental.  Once I start moving or warmed up, I dont notice the soreness anymore.

Id try not to workout when I am sore, for anything, just a peace of mind.


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## Witchblade (Dec 7, 2006)

I'm usually not sore anymore when I work out again, but when I am, the pain disappears after my warmup as well.


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