# 1st Timer Questions



## GetLifted (May 3, 2015)

I'm relatively new to the PH arena and have only experience with doing a one time short cycle of test injections back in 2009.  I'm looking to do a cycle for cutting and was hoping to come here to figure out where to start. I've been reading up on some of the orals that haven't been banned and was looking to doing 1-Andro, Epiandro for 4 weeks followed by another 2-4 weeks PCT.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated! What I had in mind is: 

Weeks 1-4
1-Andro 3 caps twice daily (300 mg)
Epiandro 3 caps twice daily (300 mg)
Anabolic Matrix 2 cap daily

Weeks 5-6 (or 5-8 for longer PCT if needed)
Anabolic Matrix 2 caps daily
E-Control 1 cap twice a day

I don't "think" I'll need the Anabolic Matrix since it should only be a 4 week time period of a lower doses of 1-Andro and Epiandro (300 mg each), but didn't want to risk any issues with sexual performance.  Does this sound like a reasonable combination? Are there any other side effects to worry about? Since they're non methylated I don't think I'll need liver support but please correct me if I'm wrong. As far as product, I'll likely order 3 bottles of 1-Andro and Epi andro, and a bottle of E-Control and Anabolic matrix from IronMag Labs unless anyone has a better source.

As far as stats, meal plans etc, I have my current general intake listed below.  I vary meals some days but have about the same general caloric intake of ~1700 calories.  I'm assuming I'll need to bump that up some while doing this, even though I'm cutting. 

Age: 27
Height: 5'6" 
Weight: 165
BF: Who knows? Maybe 12-15%

Meals
AM: 4-6 egg whites or low cholesterol eggs and 1 packet of instant oatmeal
AM Snack: 1/2 grapefruit or watermelon (add 1/2 whey protein shake on heavy lifting days)
Noon: chicken breast, broccoli (with cheddar during bulking), and 1/2 sweet potato
Afternoon snack: 1-2 servings of whey protein (+gummy bears post workout for heavy lift and cardio days)
PM: Chicken Breast or Salmon, broccoli, 1/2 sweet potato or brown rice
Bedtime: Casein protein just before bed


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## johnsonl3872 (May 3, 2015)

You already are at 12-15% BF and are cutting?? At 165?? Do you know what 12% BF looks like??? 


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## GetLifted (May 3, 2015)

johnsonl3872 said:


> You already are at 12-15% BF and are cutting?? At 165?? Do you know what 12% BF looks like???
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk









If you'd like a general photo estimate sure, I know exactly what 12% BF looks like.  And yes, at 165 lbs (dry weight) I'm cutting. Before I stopped lifting I weighed in at 141, and managed a 1RM of 295 on flat bench and was around 11.5% BF.  I've only been back in the gym a short period of time, that doesn't mean I've never been in. I'm shooting to lose about 10-15 lbs of fat while maintaining and improving my current stats (365 lb DL, 295 lb squat, 235 lb flat bench) with the hopes that I'll get down to a weight under 150 lbs.


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## GetLifted (May 3, 2015)

johnsonl3872 said:


> You already are at 12-15% BF and are cutting?? At 165?? Do you know what 12% BF looks like???
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk








There's plenty of other various charts out there for description.  I'm not here to question my BF% so much as I was interested in getting to know more information and advice on the stack.


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## GetLifted (May 5, 2015)

Over 200 views and not a single person has any input???


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## johnsonl3872 (May 5, 2015)

Why don't you just diet?  Why do you think you need PHs?  


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## GetLifted (May 5, 2015)

johnsonl3872 said:


> Why don't you just diet?  Why do you think you need PHs?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I already diet.  I take in about 1700 calories a day currently, lift 5-6 days a week (20 minute cardio following sessions), and also mix in boxing occasionally and do crossfit twice a week for additional exercise.  I've been lifting since about 2004/2005.  I've done injections before, just never tried PH. I took them because I'd reached a point where diet, exercise, and my regimen of supplements wasn't getting me past the plateau I was stuck at.


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## johnsonl3872 (May 5, 2015)

Since nobody is responding I will give you my opinion.  I have never heard of using PHs to cut.  Nor do I think you can make a whole lot of progress in 4 weeks.  The BBs I know who are under 10% BF are usually that low because of a show.  At BF that low they are miserable.  If you do decide to use PHs then yes you need liver support.  All that crap ever did to me was make me bloated-yes got strength gains but I am not a power lifter so not worth it... 


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## GetLifted (May 7, 2015)

johnsonl3872 said:


> Since nobody is responding I will give you my opinion.  I have never heard of using PHs to cut.  Nor do I think you can make a whole lot of progress in 4 weeks.  The BBs I know who are under 10% BF are usually that low because of a show.  At BF that low they are miserable.  If you do decide to use PHs then yes you need liver support.  All that crap ever did to me was make me bloated-yes got strength gains but I am not a power lifter so not worth it...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I did get responses on another forum board.  I'll be doing 6-8 weeks followed by PCT and will also be taking liver support.  I think I'm on the closer side of maybe 15% BF and don't plan on going crazy low, but I would like to drop maybe 3-4% and get more muscle tone.  Sorry to hear about your experiences, hopefully I don't have similar ones.


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## johnsonl3872 (May 7, 2015)

GetLifted said:


> I did get responses on another forum board.  I'll be doing 6-8 weeks followed by PCT and will also be taking liver support.  I think I'm on the closer side of maybe 15% BF and don't plan on going crazy low, but I would like to drop maybe 3-4% and get more muscle tone.  Sorry to hear about your experiences, hopefully I don't have similar ones.


Check into adding Clen to your cycle.  2 weeks on 2 weeks off.  It more or less melts fat.  It has worked pretty well for me.  I have a log I am doing on this site and am including Clen.  You can really see the fat loss.



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## GetLifted (May 8, 2015)

johnsonl3872 said:


> Check into adding Clen to your cycle.  2 weeks on 2 weeks off.  It more or less melts fat.  It has worked pretty well for me.  I have a log I am doing on this site and am including Clen.  You can really see the fat loss.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Right now it'll be as follows:


Weeks 1-6 
EpiAndro (4 caps daily), Osta (3 caps daily) and Anabolic Matrix (2 caps before bedtime) 
Weeks 7-10
E Control (2 caps before bed) and Anabolic Matrix (2 caps before bedtime)

Clen has thermogenic properties though no? I'm testing a thermogenic starting tomorrow.  It can only be run for up to 8 weeks so I was hoping to test it for 2 weeks now (2 weeks on, then 2 weeks off) as I go into the cycle so I'd be taking it for weeks 3-10 of the cycle.  I'll likely log it on one of the two forums.  I'm not expecting as drastic of a change as running something injectable (not comfortable with going back to this route just yet for personal reasons), but ideally I'd like to drop 1-2% with the cycle.  If more, then that's fine too.


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## johnsonl3872 (May 8, 2015)

Looks good gl


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## GetLifted (May 8, 2015)

johnsonl3872 said:


> Looks good gl
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Thanks.  I'll make any updates to the plans and will be logging workouts+meal plan for that time period.  Not expecting to do much bulking with the cycle, but would be nice to see a 405 deadlift and 275 bench press PR between now and the end of the cycle. Intended start date of May 21/22


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## greenglow (May 12, 2015)

Would have been better off running an EC stack or clen for a few weeks and gauge from there to see if you still needed PH.
PH are a last resort for me, and even then I tend to steer clear


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## GetLifted (May 16, 2015)

greenglow said:


> Would have been better off running an EC stack or clen for a few weeks and gauge from there to see if you still needed PH.
> PH are a last resort for me, and even then I tend to steer clear



I'm looking into doing clen 2 on 2 off for the duration of the 8-10 weeks I plan to be running. I was going to alternate it with another thermo for off weeks.


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## Kleo_margo (Jul 28, 2015)

Couldnt you just drink lots of coffee and sit in the sauna after workouts, and just not eat any fat at all?


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