# Biceps



## N_I_C_K (May 9, 2010)

What are some good things to do to increase peak in your bicep? Are there specific workouts that target whatever it is that increases peak?


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## Arnold (May 9, 2010)

having a bicep peak is determined by genetics, not training methods.

as far as bicep training, personally I prefer preacher curls.


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## N_I_C_K (May 9, 2010)

Prince said:


> having a bicep peak is determined by genetics, not training methods.
> 
> as far as bicep training, personally I prefer preacher curls.



So if I don't genetically have a peak than there is no possible way at all to get one?


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## Vlar (May 9, 2010)

For those that do have the potential for peaks, did you know right away or was it after a length of training before you really saw definition?   ...assuming one has already been training awhile..


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## Phineas (May 9, 2010)

Well, the amount of fat covering your arms will hide the appearance of your peak. Drop some body fat and it will look a bit better.


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## GearsMcGilf (May 9, 2010)

Preacher Curls (best IMO)
Standing BB Curls
Alt. DB Curls
Hammer Curls
Reverse BB Curls
Cable Curls w/bar
Cable Curls w/ropes


Pick 3 and do 4x6-12, altern8 doing diff ones each w/o.  It's not fukkin rocket science.


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## N_I_C_K (May 9, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Preacher Curls (best IMO)
> Standing BB Curls
> Alt. DB Curls
> Hammer Curls
> ...



Why only three? Also what does IMO mean?


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## kyle64 (May 9, 2010)

IMO = in my opinion


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## cheappinz (May 9, 2010)

3 sets with heavy weights will stress the muscle fibers enough to make micro tears and promote growth.  You will feel the soreness which is the tiny microscopic tearing.  To some degree, your size is predetermined.  The muscle belly is covered by fascia..Its like a balloon skin covering the muscle fiber.  Its incredibly strong and doesnt allow for growth past a point it is programmed to reach.  To get freaky big, you would have to take extreme measures.


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## N_I_C_K (May 10, 2010)

cheappinz said:


> 3 sets with heavy weights will stress the muscle fibers enough to make micro tears and promote growth.  You will feel the soreness which is the tiny microscopic tearing.  To some degree, your size is predetermined.  The muscle belly is covered by fascia..Its like a balloon skin covering the muscle fiber.  Its incredibly strong and doesnt allow for growth past a point it is programmed to reach.  To get freaky big, you would have to take extreme measures.




This helped a lot, thanks. I've seen my peak seem to grow but when I read the first few posts on here I thought maybe I was seeing things. So it can grow but only to a certain point that I can't control.

Yeah I'm not interested in freaky big, or extreme measures. Just definition.


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## Flathead (May 10, 2010)

If your looking for definition/little more size, I would reccomend DB Hammer curls - 21s. If your looking for overall gun size, I would concentrate on your triceps.


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## davegmb (May 10, 2010)

I was always told that seated incline bicep curls are a great way to get the peak, try them out they are a killer. 

Good luck


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## Arnold (May 10, 2010)

N_I_C_K said:


> So if I don't genetically have a peak than there is no possible way at all to get one?



that is correct sir.


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## N_I_C_K (May 10, 2010)

davegmb said:


> I was always told that seated incline bicep curls are a great way to get the peak, try them out they are a killer.
> 
> Good luck



I do seated curls like you said, but never incline. Today is a bicep day so I'll be sure to give them a try.


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## CaptainNapalm (May 10, 2010)

You can't change the natural shape of your muscle, if this is what you mean by developing the peak.  Only thing you can do is make your biceps bigger and lean out your arms so they really show.  Only thing I do and probably will ever do for biceps are standing barbell curls, hammer curls and preacher curls.


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## Arnold (May 10, 2010)

CaptainNapalm said:


> You can't change the natural shape of your muscle, if this is what you mean by developing the peak.  Only thing you can do is make your biceps bigger and lean out your arms so they really show.



I tried telling him this but I don't think he wants to believe it.


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## GearsMcGilf (May 10, 2010)

N_I_C_K said:


> Why only three? Also what does IMO mean?



You really don't need to do more than 12 sets per workout on biceps.  So, 3 exercises @ 4x6-12 each, changing up the exercises each workout.

GICH!


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## Phineas (May 10, 2010)

N_I_C_K said:


> What are some good things to do to increase peak in your bicep? Are there specific workouts that target whatever it is that increases peak?



Also note that, while genetics ultimately determines the shape of your muscle, the smaller it is and more fat covering it the harder it will be to see the true shape of your muscle.

Even if you're genetically gifted with nice bicep peaks they won't show very well without some mass and of course relatively low bodyfat.

What is your routine? Not arm work, I mean everything.

Also, what's your diet like?


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## N_I_C_K (May 10, 2010)

Phineas said:


> Also note that, while genetics ultimately determines the shape of your muscle, the smaller it is and more fat covering it the harder it will be to see the true shape of your muscle.
> 
> Even if you're genetically gifted with nice bicep peaks they won't show very well without some mass and of course relatively low bodyfat.
> 
> ...



I don't think you could have answered that any better. That's precisely what I wanted. Thanks.

Diet is 100% of my body weight in protein and around 50-65% my body weight in carbs. I'm not exactly looking to get any smaller or weigh less than I do. I'm losing a little bit of weight daily, but it varies so I think my diet is solid. 

Routine: _bicep/back/fore arms/neck day, chest/shoulder/tricep day, legs day. Cardio everyday. Abs every other day._

Biceps: standing curls, seated hammer curls, 21's on a machine that uses free weights. Sometimes I like to look at my progress so I'll do a set of curls with an elastic band (minimal pressure) just to look. Not really a workout but figured I'd throw it in there.
Back: Row, straight pull downs, sideways pull down (for lat), sometimes this other machine depending on energy that's like a leaning row? Idk how I could describe it.
Fore arms: fore arms curls in front, fore arms curls in back.
Neck: shrugs.

Chest: bench press (depends on mood), flies, DB bench. Sometimes power/buttefly push-ups.
Shoulders: DB incline, 21's for shoulder OR SIU military, military.
Triceps:

Legs: Squat, push press, seated calf raises, standing calf raises, quad machine x 2, and lunges (most of the time)

Cardio: 30 minutes bike (daily) and on legs days treadmill and stair stepper for 10 minutes.

Abs: 2x25 sit ups with 15lbs DB's, 50x1 side to sides with 20lbs medicine ball, 25x2 dead horse crunches with 20lbs medicine ball, 50x2 side crunches, 3x10 each way (left, middle, right) leg raises where you hold yourself up and back rests on something? Finally hold my legs around 6 inches above ground for 60 seconds.


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## Phineas (May 10, 2010)

N_I_C_K said:


> I don't think you could have answered that any better. That's precisely what I wanted. Thanks.
> 
> Diet is 100% of my body weight in protein and around 50-65% my body weight in carbs. I'm not exactly looking to get any smaller or weigh less than I do. I'm losing a little bit of weight daily, but it varies so I think my diet is solid.
> 
> ...



-don't bother with wrist curls...if you want extra forearm development go for grip work like farmers walks
-I'd avoid the whole 21s band-wagon...people like catchy mainstream programs, but you don't need to get that complicated...push something, pull something, and do something for your legs....and do it with a full range of motion
-ditch shrugs
-not enough leg work..you're training your upper body drastically more than your legs, which comprise half of your body and are growth hormone gold mines
-you don't need to do cardio every day....unless you just really wanna be good at doing cardio every day..
-push press isn't a leg lift..it's a full-body power lift...when used just as the push press and not as part of a clean and press it's usually intended to follow shoulder press or military press to further exhaust the already-fatigued delts that can no longer perform controlled movements
-START DEADLIFTING...full body, heavy legs, and believe it or not arms

train your legs and your arms will grow...again, you can't change the shape of your biceps, but if you DO have a good peak and they're just not big enough to notice then focussing on compound lifts is a good start to making them grow


We need more diet info. Saying bodyweight in protein tells me nothing. 

What are your typical day's meals? What foods? How much of those foods? How many calories does this equate to? How many grams of fat, carbs, etc. How much water? Etc. 

Also, please note that if you're losing weight you're on a calorie deficit. That's fine, but if you want more mass in your biceps then you better up those calories because you won't gain muscle on a deficit -- unless you're a total beginner or on juice.


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## N_I_C_K (May 10, 2010)

Phineas said:


> -don't bother with wrist curls...if you want extra forearm development go for grip work like farmers walks
> -I'd avoid the whole 21s band-wagon...people like catchy mainstream programs, but you don't need to get that complicated...push something, pull something, and do something for your legs....and do it with a full range of motion
> -ditch shrugs
> -not enough leg work..you're training your upper body drastically more than your legs, which comprise half of your body and are growth hormone gold mines
> ...




To best honest, I don't know much of anything when it comes to legs. My knowledge is very basic. I meant leg press not push press by the way. I do 21's for shoulder but they aren't like bicep 21's. I push outside 7 times, straight 7 times, and above my head 7 times. I get a pretty good workout that way. Today I replaced 21's (biceps) with another type of curls that my friend showed me, squatting curls? They were good but I've never heard of them before though but I really was feeling it when I was doing them. 

Typical meals: Turkey links everyday for breakfast. Lunch usually consists of yogurt, 2 slim jims/pepperoni stick, some sort of fruit, propel to drink, and some sort of sandwich either peanut butter/tuna/turkey/ham/roast beef. Dinner usually either a tuna sandwich, some form of beef, steak, peanut butter sandwich, or chicken breast. I also mix my whey protein with chocolate milk after I workout. 

I'm not really interested in losing weight anymore. I want stronger, yet more defined arms/abs/body/legs. What should I do to achieve that? Change my diet, workout, or anything. I'll do it. I don't care what it takes to get ripped. I'll do anything that isn't illegal, dangerous, or anything like that. Obviously though. Hell I'll re-do my entire program if I have too, log it all, whatever it takes.


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## Phineas (May 10, 2010)

N_I_C_K said:


> To best honest, I don't know much of anything when it comes to legs. My knowledge is very basic. I meant leg press not push press by the way. I do 21's for shoulder but they aren't like bicep 21's. I push outside 7 times, straight 7 times, and above my head 7 times. I get a pretty good workout that way. Today I replaced 21's (biceps) with another type of curls that my friend showed me, squatting curls? They were good but I've never heard of them before though but I really was feeling it when I was doing them.
> 
> * Read the stickies in the training section for more info on training legs. It's very important that you understand the value of leg training.
> 
> ...



See comments.


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## Flathead (May 11, 2010)

Phineas, what are farmers walks?? 21s for biceps are great for failure sets, I would reccomend these for 4 sets, about every 3rd week.


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## N_I_C_K (May 11, 2010)

Thanks Phineas. I'm going to start keeping track on Fitday. Appreciate it. But why should I ditch shrugs?  

Thanks Flathead. I'll stop doing those as often as I do.


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## Flathead (May 11, 2010)

He's probably telling you to ditch shrugs as most people don't do them correctly & do more damage than good.


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## Phineas (May 11, 2010)

Flathead said:


> Phineas, what are farmers walks?? 21s for biceps are great for failure sets, I would reccomend these for 4 sets, about every 3rd week.



Farmers walks are simple. You grab a couple dumbbells, hold them out at your side, and walk. Simple yet brutal. They're primarily for grip purposes, but it's really a full body effort -- even cardio.

The whole concept of failure is abused amonst newer lifters. They think hitting failure is the path to muscle growth. This was a concept made popular by, ironically, my idol Arnold Schwarzenagger. However, since his prime 35 years ago much has been learned. We now know that training to failure has profound damaging effects on the central nervous system when done regularly. When you hit true muscular failure (concentric failure) you're motor units begin to shut off and trigger muscle fibers to cease contraction as a preventative measure. It's your body's way of saying "slow the fuck down, asshole, you're killing me!" Training to failure occassionally and only on the last set of particular lifts can be beneficial, but doing it routinely is a recipe for overtraining.

Also, I said to ditch the 21s because, even if it was an intelligent program (which I don't think it is..I think it's stupid and just catchy because it gives a false sense of complexity when really there's no rhyme or reason), you're still just following all the trendy magazines. To be successful you need to learn to write your own programs, or at least understand the rationale behind their structure. I take advice on programs. My current program is from Gaz. I only modified it slightly. However, I understand why everything is arranged as such. This is the problem with the mainstream "programs". They're sold as a golden ticket to being ripped, but (the program's lack of credibility aside) the lifters don't even understand what they're doing to their body or why.



Flathead said:


> He's probably telling you to ditch shrugs as most people don't do them correctly & do more damage than good.



I said to ditch shrugs because they work only the upper traps. The traps extend down to the mid-back and are compose of the upper, mid, and lower fibres, of which the latters comprises the majority of mass. If you've determiend your upper traps as weak point or you want extra assistance from that muscle on a major lift then by all means use shrugs. However, I can tell a newb program from a non-newb and when I see shrugs as a part of it I know it's because they just see other guys doing them, they're easy as hell to lift a load of weight, and they develop one of the esthetique muscles viewed from the front.

Deadlifts, cleans, and farmer walks will put size on your traps that shrugs never would.


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## readyformore (May 12, 2010)

Vlar said:


> For those that do have the potential for peaks, did you know right away or was it after a length of training before you really saw definition?   ...assuming one has already been training awhile..



At first, no. After a while of working out you'll be able to notice. I always have people that talk shit because my peak, say's it looks weird lol SCREW EM! haha


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## MyK (May 13, 2010)

Flathead said:


> Phineas, what are farmers walks?? 21s for biceps are great for failure sets, I would reccomend these for 4 sets, about every 3rd week.


 






YouTube Video


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## Gazhole (May 13, 2010)

Honestly can't reccomend farmer's walks enough, whether you care about grip strength or not. Don't only train your grip, but your core stability, the whole trap complex, hell even the biceps and shoulders are involved - not to mention your entire legs and lower back. This exercise has it all!


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## N_I_C_K (May 13, 2010)

Gazhole said:


> Honestly can't reccomend farmer's walks enough, whether you care about grip strength or not. Don't only train your grip, but your core stability, the whole trap complex, hell even the biceps and shoulders are involved - not to mention your entire legs and lower back. This exercise has it all!



Well they sound great! I'll be damn sure to do them today. But they work all these muscles at one time so what do should I do them on? Push? Pull? Or legs? Or does it even matter which day?


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## Gazhole (May 13, 2010)

N_I_C_K said:


> Well they sound great! I'll be damn sure to do them today. But they work all these muscles at one time so what do should I do them on? Push? Pull? Or legs? Or does it even matter which day?



I would say push day. Leg day would be hell because your walking would be impaired, and pull day is heavy on the biceps, forearms, and traps.


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## N_I_C_K (May 13, 2010)

Gazhole said:


> I would say push day. Leg day would be hell because your walking would be impaired, and pull day is heavy on the biceps, forearms, and traps.



I was thiking push day too. Only thing I was thinking was it might be to much on my shoulders than I watched the video, because I didn't really know how exactly to do them and now I do. I thought for some reason you held them out straight with your shoulders, I don't know why I thought that. Thanks dude, appreciate it.


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## rockhardly (May 13, 2010)

Farmers walks, ehh?  How much weight and how far do you walk and how many times?


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## Gazhole (May 13, 2010)

N_I_C_K said:


> I was thiking push day too. Only thing I was thinking was it might be to much on my shoulders than I watched the video, because I didn't really know how exactly to do them and now I do. I thought for some reason you held them out straight with your shoulders, I don't know why I thought that. Thanks dude, appreciate it.



Stand up straight, push your shoulders back and your chest out, good posture (no shoulder slouching or bending forward), let the weights hang but keep your shoulders locked in. Keep your core tight, too.

Apart from that, just enjoy the fun


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## Gazhole (May 13, 2010)

rockhardly said:


> Farmers walks, ehh?  How much weight and how far do you walk and how many times?



How much do i do personally, or how much should you do in general?

I'd say as much weight as you can do with good form for 3-4 sets of 30-50 meters.


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## FMJ (May 13, 2010)

Gazhole said:


> How much do i do personally, or how much should you do in general?
> 
> I'd say as much weight as you can do with good form for 3-4 sets of 30-50 meters.


 
Gaz does them with Volkswagons.


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## Flathead (May 13, 2010)

MyK 3.0 said:


> YouTube Video


 


Good stuff, thanks!!


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## N_I_C_K (May 13, 2010)

Thanks dude. Yeah, like that guy asked. How much weight do you do? In a general sense like light, moderate, or heavy?


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## Gazhole (May 13, 2010)

Like most things it depends on what you're going for, and where your ability is.

If you want endurance, go for lighter weights and walk for longer. If you want strength, use heavier weights and do shorter walks. Personally i don't see any reason why you can't do both if you just want to train them for overall development.

Mix it up. Start light and feel them out, then find out where your limits are and go from there.


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## fredlabrute (May 14, 2010)

Bodybuilding is a world of illusion,and if you can't change your biceps shape like Prince said,or can make em looks better by getting ripped you can surely make the best of what you have.I have pretty big arms and my tris have always be a strong point but my biceps were kind of left behind not that long ago!Some tricks that did wonder for me:
1=Some kind of incline because it doesn't allow cheating with the weight
2= pyramid 21s on concentration curls=this one not to be use each week since it'll make a grueling workout=ex:did take 15lbs dbll and get a 21s set,without rest take 25lbs dbll do another set ,still without rest take 35lbs dbll do one more set,after that you get back to 25 lbs and repeat ,and finally a last set with the 15 lbs that will feel if you were curling 100 lbs dbll!One set at end of workout and you're done!
3=Special exercice=In a low pulley rack(same rack as for crossover except you take low pulley),grab both pulley and take a few steps in front of you,arms on each side will be stretch behind you,without moving elbows you do both curls at same time-I call them Front stance cable curls
Another trick i have(took it from Larry Scott)is to contract the tris on bottom or lower parts of biceps movement, it seems to help getting better contractions and burns after at the top of movement.
Hope it will help you
Put your pride aside and feel the weight!


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## N_I_C_K (May 14, 2010)

Thanks a lot dude. I'll be sure to try that stuff when my next pull day comes around.


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