# T3



## Mudge (Jun 7, 2003)

http://www.medizingeschaedigte.net/uk_trijodthyronin.html

Publikationsdienst für Medizingeschädigte
Publikationsdienst für Medizingeschädigte
Publikationsdienst für Medizingeschädigte




Warning of thyroid hormone T3-Trijodthyronin/Liothyronin
- abridged version -

A detailed summary of the effects and serious damage to soft tissue and the brain, organs, blood and nerve paths and the skeleton is currently in preparation. T3 trijodthyronin can be described as a stimulant in terms of its effect. T3 trijodthyronin substitution causes a disturbance in protein binding which blocks cell formation and prevents tissue metabolism. It is a manipulation which stretch into the realm of genetics. The result is shrinkage and mummification that is not immediately seen as weight reduction or muscle disappearance. The body parts and organs affected become stiff and hard. These ???bands of steel and stones" cut every thing around them inside the body and cause not only infection, but also very painful wounds which nothing can relieve.

History of the Thyroid Hormones:

1914: Kendall achieves the pure presentation and crystallization of the thyroid hormone thyroxin (T4). 

1926: Harrington discovers the constitution of thyroxin (T4). 

1927: Harrington and Barger synthesize thyroxin (T4). 

1952: Discovery of trijodthyronin (T3) by Gross, Pitt-Rivers and Roche, Michel and Lissitzky. 

1969: Measurement of trijodthyronin (T3) in serum by Sterling. 

1970: The Journal of Clinical Investigation Vol.49; Braverman/Ingbar/Sterling publish the scientific report "Conversion (T4) to Triiodothyronine (T3) in Athyreotic Human Subjects" which proves that thyroxin in converted to trijodthyronin in peripheral tissue. Since this publication, all respectable endocrinologists around the world have recognized that thyroid hormone substitution must occur using T4-thyroxin. 

1974: Chopra proves peripheral regulation during conversion of thyroxin (T4) into trijodthyronin (T3).


The facts are: 

Since 1952 when T3 trijodthyronin was discovered, dubious researchers have continued to continue absolutely senseless experiments which have not brought any positive results even until today. Their research is excused by dismissive, untruthful claims by pharmaceutical companies, and in recent times new human guinea pigs have been sought in the form of pharma-controlled patient groups. No pharmaceutical company producing T3 trijodthyronin or the combination drug T4 with T3 was able to provide me with an positive results for the use of T3 trijodthyronin. Existing log reports about these experiments are well hidden and kept secret. According to my knowledge, these experiments were conducted in particular in the former CSSR (Czechoslovakia), at the Research Institute for Endocrinology in Prague. On 22 June 1997, I filed suit against the ???scientist??? who was involved in the experiments there and I demanded that the Attorney General bring the related documentation under safekeeping. T3 trijodhyronin was officially approved in the Czech Republic only in 1992. The Czech Society of Physicians blocked my suit and Attorney General allowed the senseless experiments to continue, which caused serious harm and death. 

There are dubious presentations on the internet which are directly or indirectly supported by the pharmaceutical industry. The most famous site in the USA is the URL of Mary Shomon. In Germany I asked pharma companies (Henning and Merck) and private individuals (e.g. former DMF and Dr. Achim Jaeckel, Schilddrüseliga.de, Rita Leydel, Harald Rimmele etc.), who present propaganda on the internet about T3 trijodthyronin, to provide me with scientific evidence that these kind of T3 substitutions are correct. Since no one had this kind of proof, I reported this to the authorities in Germany; this was also ignored. Apparently still more people need to die first, including victims in government and law circles. 

After 30 years of single T3 trijodthyronin substitution, which was administered to me as a thyroid hormone replacement in the form of revenge for non-testable T4 values, and after I had to independently study information in endocrinology, biochemistry and bio-transformation, I am in a legitimate position to publish all facts about the serious results of this procedure. The ???scientists??? participating in this experiment attempt to hide all documentation which incriminates them, and they are silent about the torture which they inflicted and still will inflict. 

The changes which occur after a hormone switch to T4 thyroxin (with an instant effect in some cases), are without discussion sufficient proof that T3 trijodthyronin substitution is the cause of all damage to tissue, organs (including the skull and brain), blood and nerve routes and on the skeletal system. These types of damage also occurred using combination drugs (T4+T3); the effects just took longer under some circumstances, especially given the overall condition of health. Only T4 thyroxin can guarantee the proper tissue metabolism. It is the conversion of T4 thyroxin within tissue which is essential to life. Without this process, the body will die from unbearable pains of torture. The levels of T4 thyroxin substitution must be determined slowly and carefully: too much T4 can also cause damage and block the conversion into T3. 

Jana M. Vydra
jmv@gmx.net 

http://magazine.mindandmuscle.net/main.php?issueID=11

"Like the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis, the thyroid gland is under negative feedback control. When T3 levels go up, TSH secretion is suppressed. This is the mechanism whereby exogenous thyroid hormone suppresses natural thyroid hormone production. There is a difference though between the way anabolic steroids suppress natural testosterone production and the way T3 suppresses the thyroid. With steroids, the longer and heavier the cycle is, the longer your natural testosterone is suppressed. This is not the case with exogenous thyroid hormone.

An early study that looked at thyroid function and recovery under the influence of exogenous thyroid hormone was undertaken by Greer (2). He looked at patients who were misdiagnosed as being hypothyroid and put on thyroid hormone replacement for as long as 30 years. When the medication was withdrawn, their thyroids quickly returned to normal.

Here is a remark about Greer's classic paper from a later author: 


"In 1951, Greer reported the pattern of recovery of thyroid function after stopping suppressive treatment with thyroid hormone in euthyroid [normal] subjects based on sequential measurements of their thyroidal uptake of radioiodine. He observed that after withdrawal of exogenous thyroid therapy, thyroid function, in terms of radioiodine uptake, returned to normal in most subjects within two weeks. He further observed that thyroid function returned as rapidly in those subjects whose glands had been depressed by several years of thyroid medication as it did in those whose gland had been depressed for only a few days" (3) 

These results have been subsequently verified in several studies.(3)(4) So contrary to what has been stated in the bodybuilding literature, there is no evidence that long term thyroid supplementation will somehow damage your thyroid gland. Nevertheless, most bodybuilders will choose to cycle their T3 (or T4 which in most cases works just as well) as part of a cutting strategy, since T3 is catabolic with respect to muscle just as it is with fat. *As previously mentioned, long term T3 induced hyperthyroidism is also catabolic to bone as well as muscle.*


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## Mudge (Jun 14, 2003)

Raver Article on T3/Clen Stack!
Cytomel (Mexican Cynomel) Synthetic T-3 amd Clenbuterol Stacking - A Quick Weight Loss Solution

This is to be a far from scientific article, one based, rather, in practical experience in losing weight and helping others to lose weight. We are not, on the average, concerned with obese individuals, but those who have packed on an additional 12-25 pounds beyond what was expected in a traditional steroid cycle, and the weeks beyond.

Not all of us will gain this type of weight during a cycle, but those of us who use a high protein / high calorie diet in conjunction with heavy weight lifting, accompanied by a medium to high dosed androgenic (i.e., Dianabol, Testosterone, Trenbolone (Finaplix or Component T-H)) steroid cycle, will almost always pack on an additional 6-20 pounds of pure lard. Granted that Burger King, Hooters, and Papadeux are not on the traditional bodybuilders menu, many of us are either forced, or by personal inclination, choose to indulge in calorie/fat bombs in order to provide the necessary building blocks for muscle. 
Who, after all, can subsist on 3-5 protein shakes a day? I certainly can't, and from what I've seen of the advice on the boards, a Whopper or 2 every other day seems to be the prescribed regimen for gaining LBM - the prized Lean Body Mass.

Let's look at that paradigm for a moment - LBM. Sure and granted, we all seek this Holy Grail of Bodybuilding, but too many novices and mid-level bodybuilders alike sacrifice gaining pure muscle mass, in favor of gaining 2-6 pounds of LBM with a $400 - $1100 steriod cycle - all because they want to stay lean.

I might be wrong (it's been known to happen, albeit once a year or so), but if I'm going to invest that kind of dough, I want to see some by God muscle appear. In order to build the kind of muscle I expect from a cycle, I need to consume 4000 - 6000 calories a day, depending upon what I'm doing (Touch Football, Softball, or Indoor Soccer season). Those calories don't ALL go towards LBM, many (sometimes too many) go towards pure lard. 

Don't get me wrong, the intensity you apply in the gym does, in fact, burn some serious fat, while at the same time channeling blood, nutrients, and the cherished PUMP to your muscles. However, if you intend to gain serious mass, and here I give kudos to the WarPig, you'll bulk and bloat. Damnit, the bloat. We don't want to look like Beachballs, we want to look like Footballs - tight, tapered, lean in all the right places. How to eat the necessary calories, the necessary protein, the absolutely essential, energy giving Carbohydrates, without the dreaded bloat? 

Here's where the first application of T-3 comes in. I won't quote any studies (there are few), but from personal experience, and the experience of those amatuer and mid-level bodybuilders I've helped, a 25-50mcg dosage of T-3, per day, will help to reduce bloating and water retention, while at the same time enhancing the effect of whatever steriod (androgenic or anabolic) the user chooses. It won't, by any means, keep the mass from piling on, but it will eliminate the dreaded moon face and the hideous stomach bloat. 

The second application of T-3 is intended to quickly reduce the blubber produced by a serious mass cycle, and ALWAYS, always includes Clenbuterol. Say, for example, you've done a Raver Cycle - 2g Test, 600mg Deca, and 50-75mg Dbol a day, for 12 weeks. You've devoured 3 Cornish Game Hens at a meal, wolfed down a double Whopper with cheese, but no Mayo every other day, and forced yourself to eat spaghetti with meatballs, cottage cheese, herb-seasoned chicken breasts, pork tenderloins, meatloaf, oatmeal, grits, and eggs, eggs, eggs, tuna tuna tuna, along with 2-3 daily protein shakes. 

Trust me - you're fat. You look big as shit in the mirror, but you have no abs, no separation, and no definition. The remedy? 
Weigh yourself. For every pound, use 1mcg of T-3. If you weigh 180, and you look fat, use 175mcg of T-3. If you weigh 250, and you look fat, use 250mcg of T-3. Round the dosage down to the nearest 25mcg, and stack Clenbuterol at 5-12 tabs a day for 6 weeks. Follow a CKD diet, such as Body Opus or Animalobolics, do 15-20 minutes of Cardio for the first 3 weeks, and watch the fat shed. 

T-3 by itself produces sweat like there's no tomorrow - you'll have wet spots under your arms, under your pecs, in the crack of your ass, and, on your forehead. You might get the shakes. T-3, stacked with Clenbuterol, will give you all of the above mentioned sweats, along with the shakes...your hands, your legs (stairs are really a bitch), and your neck, on occasion. If you have a job like mine, where the shakes are undesirable, use a potassium supplement or eat 2-3 bananas a day, it will alleviate them. 
In summary, T-3 has two uses - eliminating bloat and water retention during a cycle, and rapid weight loss after a cycle. One of the things to remember while using this drug is that it DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE between LBM and pure fat - it eats tissue, period. I used T-3 exactly twice before figuring out that it should never be used without at least 400mg of Testosterone, preferably, in dieting mode, Propionate. A post cycle regimen of 1mcg T-3 per pound of bodyweight, along with Clenbuterol and a 50-100mg / day dosage of Test Prop, will work absolute wonders. 

And now, for the Raver challenge (the third in 14 months) - If anyone - ANYONE can produce scientific, verifiable evidence that synthetic T-3 (Cytomel, Cynomel) causes thyroid shutdown in humans after prolonged, high dose use - I'll send them $100. A major medical journal, a study by a top 10 ranked pharmaceutical firm, or verifiable results of a personal medical evaluation (verifiable via documentation and confirmation by the physician) are acceptable. Barring that, let's not hear any further argument about the horrible side effects of T-3. 
Comments, suggestions, flames can be directed to raver75 @ operamail.com 
Out here, 
Rave


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## crackerjack414 (Jun 15, 2003)

ahhh this old articlle from raver I completly disagrea with him on this. It may work for some but others like myself cant tolarate more than 25mcg of t3 without serious muscle loss loss.


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## Mudge (Jun 15, 2003)

Thats what I hear from many who go over 50mcg, burn muscle + headaches.


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## crackerjack414 (Jun 17, 2003)

t3 is one of those drugs thats doesage is an individeul thing. Its realy hard to get your diet and doseages spot on the first couple of times around.


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## The Raver (Jan 20, 2011)

*Well...*

I'm still alive, I still have a perfectly functional thyroid gland, and even though I feel INCREDIBLY old compared to back in the day, that article has withstood the test of time.

I still have that $100 in an envelope, and neither Bill Roberts or anyone else has managed to disprove my theory and collect it.

That's eleven years, people, the "Raver Challenge" has been in effect, and I still have my money.  Disagree all you like, but you've got to prove me wrong to win the $100.

Props to all my old pals on the boards (especially xcelbeyond), and I wish I could still hang with y'all.  Life is totally different for me these days...but I still have abs.  Not bad for a 46-year old software project manager, eh?

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T-mag Article By Brock Strasser : Issue No. 200, March 15, 2000

*Thyroid Hormones = Permanent Suppression?*

For years, many of us have been repeating, with little scientific  evidence, that if you used too much thyroid hormone for too long you'd  permanently screw up your brain/thyroid axis, end up with a permanent  case of hypothyroidism and be a fat, slow slob on maintenance level  Synthroid (T4) for the rest of your life.

This "urban legend" was first postulated by my mentor, Dan Duchaine (may  peace be upon him) and propagated further over the years by a bunch of  "fitness queens" who lived on Cytomel, looked great, ate like truck  drivers and got as big as a leather couch when they stopped the Cytomel.  For years, we blamed it on some thyroidic suppression. Well, folks, we  wuz' wrong!

I've been listening to the experience of a guy named "Raver" on a  steroid message board and have been monitoring his experiences with  Cytomel over the last year. Raver is convinced that T3 does not cause  permanent suppression, even at 150-300 mcg per day for long periods of  time. And it turns out, he was 100% correct!

Make no mistake about it, using exogenous thyroid hormones will suppress  your own production of endogenous thyroid hormone and you will be  hypothyroidic for a few weeks when you come off. But as many people can  tell you, this state isn't permanent. This got me to thinking, so I  started snooping around the medical school library archives. I soon dug  up an old article from the NEJM for your perusal and I only wish I'd  discovered this thing five years ago. Check it out:

N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4

Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy.

Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.

The pattern of thyrotropin secretion was analyzed in seven euthyroid  women, before and after withdrawal of long-term thyroid hormone, by  serial measurements of thyroid 131l uptake, serum thyroxine,  tri-iodothyronine, and thyrotropin concentrations, and the response to  thyrotropin-releasing hormone. During exogenous hormone administration,  131l uptake was suppressed, and serum thyrotropin concentrations before  and after administration of thyrotropin-releasing hormone were  undetectable.

After withdrawal of exogenous hormone, thyrotropin secretory function  was transiently impaired, as indicated by undetectable basal thyrotropin  concentrations together with absence of response to  thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and subsequently by normal values of  basal thyrotropin concentration and normal responses to releasing  hormone while serum thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine concentrations were  subnormal.

Decreased thyrotropin reserve persisted for two to five weeks.  Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per  milliliter) and a normal 131l uptake usually occurred concurrently in  two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at  least four weeks after hormone withdrawal.

Translation: At least in women (and I'd venture to say men, too) the  body will bounce back to baseline in a month or so. This is important  information for people using any type of thyroid-based drug to lose fat.  It should tell you that you need to be really vigilant for about a  month after stopping such drugs with regard to diet and cardio.

Thanks, Raver!
----------------------------------------------------

You're welcome, old friend.  I miss you all.

On Edit: Board software won't let me post links, so you'll have to Google the tubes to find xcelbeyond's post, on RippedMass, my interview with Brock Strasser on the old testosterone.net (webarchive might have that one), and my argument with Bill Roberts in the T-Nation forums...but it's all out there on the 'net somewhere...the 'net don't forget.

See ya.




crackerjack414 said:


> ahhh this old articlle from raver I completly disagrea with him on this. It may work for some but others like myself cant tolarate more than 25mcg of t3 without serious muscle loss loss.


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## heavyiron (Jan 20, 2011)

Yup, On the net there are tons of people saying you may permanentaly shut down your thyroid with prolonged use of T3 but science says the opposite.



*Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy. *

Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.

The pattern of thyrotropin secretion was analyzed in seven euthyroid women, before and after withdrawal of long-term thyroid hormone, by serial measurements of thyroid 131l uptake, serum thyroxine, tri-iodothyronine, and thyrotropin concentrations, and the response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone. During exogenous hormone administration, 131l uptake was suppressed, and serum thyrotropin concentrations before and after administration of thyrotropin-releasing hormone were undetectable. After withdrawal of exogenous hormone, thyrotropin secretory function was transiently impaired, as indicated by undetectable basal thyrotropin concentrations together with absence of response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and subsequently by normal values of basal thyrotropin concentration and normal responses to releasing hormone while serum thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine concentrations were subnormal. Decreased thyrotropin reserve persisted for two to five weeks. Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) and a normal 131l uptake usually occurred concurrently in two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal.

PMID: 808728 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


*Patterns of recovery of the hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis in patients taken of chronic thyroid therapy. *

Krugman LG, Hershman JM, Chopra IJ, Levine GA, Pekary E, Geffner DL, Chua Teco GN.

To determine the patterns of recovery of the hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis following long-term thyroid hormone therapy, TRH tests were performed on 8 euthyroid nongoitrous patients, 5 euthyroid goitrous patients, and 5 hypothyroid patients while they were taking full doses of thyroid hormone and 3, 7, 10, 14, 17, 21, 28, 35, 42, 49, and 56 days after stopping it. Serum TSH, T3, and T4 were measured before and at multiple intervals over a 4-h period after giving 500 mug TRH iv. In euthyroid non-goitrous patients, the mean duration of suppressed TSH response to TRH (maximum deltaTSH less than 8 muU/ml) was 12 +/- 4 (SE) days after stopping thyroid hormone and the mean time to recovery of normal TSH response to TRH (maximum deltaTSH greater than 8 muU/ml) was 16 +/- 5 days. None of the euthyroid nongoitrous patients ever hyperresponded to TRH; their average maximal deltaTSH was 24.5 +/- 2.2 muU/ml. Serum T4 fell below normal in 4 euthyroid non-goitrous patients, reaching lowest values at 4 to 28 days. While serum T4 was low, deltaTSH was subnormal. Normal increments of T4 and T3 after TRH occurred at 19 +/- 5 and 22 +/- 6 days, respectively. In the 5 goitrous patients, patterns of recovery of pituitary and thyroid function assessed by the same parameters were much less consistent. In the 5 hypothyroid patients, the mean duration of suppressed basal TSH and suppressed deltaTSH was 13 +/- 3 days; mean time to attain a supranormal basal TSH (greater than 8 muU/ml) was 16 +/- 4 days and to reach a supranormal deltaTSH (greater than 38 muU/ml) after TRH was 29 +/- 8 days. Following prolonged thyroid therapy in euthyroid patients, recovery of normal TSH responsiveness to TRH preceded recovery of the normal T3 and T4 response to TRH by 3 to 6 days. Basal serum TSH may be used to differentiate euthyroid from hypothyroid patients 35 days after withdrawal of thyroid therapy; the response to TRH does not improve this differentiation.

PMID: 807596 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## stronger4ever (Jan 20, 2011)

I take 150mcg of T4 every day. Even during bulking cycles. I tried cutting it down but I just started gaining more fat and losing all my energy. This is probably due to the fact my T4 is prescribed and I need it. I don't know if it is catabolic, but I've had some great gain throughout the years even before I started using gear I had good gains taking T4. Never tried T3 but I see how it can be a lot stronger. I don't know how much catabolic it can be.


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## awhites1 (Feb 17, 2011)

*I KNOW* this is a *SUPER* old article. but i came across it on google looking up some stuff about T3. I've been considering it or T4 to help me cut these last 10 lbs. but I get SO many conflicting stories on it. Seems it aint shit or it will efff you for life. My sister went to her dr and did some blood work. Turns out she has an underactive thyroid which the doctor said he could prescribe her some meds for it but eventually it would shut down her pituitary and she'ld have to take the meds the rest of her life so she didn't.

So I lean more towards that it can mess you up and that the risks don't outweigh the positives.
Even this very thread shows the huge inconsistencies you find when looking at this product. The first post being that it will ruin your life and the second artilcle some dude stating he used it and is fine.


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## ROID (Feb 17, 2011)

My girl has been taking t3/t4 for a few years now ED.


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## heavyiron (Feb 17, 2011)

awhites1 said:


> *I KNOW* this is a *SUPER* old article. but i came across it on google looking up some stuff about T3. I've been considering it or T4 to help me cut these last 10 lbs. but I get SO many conflicting stories on it. Seems it aint shit or it will efff you for life. My sister went to her dr and did some blood work. Turns out she has an underactive thyroid which the doctor said he could prescribe her some meds for it but eventually it would shut down her pituitary and she'ld have to take the meds the rest of her life so she didn't.
> 
> So I lean more towards that it can mess you up and that the risks don't outweigh the positives.
> Even this very thread shows the huge inconsistencies you find when looking at this product. The first post being that it will ruin your life and the second artilcle some dude stating he used it and is fine.


 Then there is post #7 that has the real science...


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## awhites1 (Feb 17, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> Then there is post #7 that has the real science...



I know. i read that. Im always very iffy on studies though b/c as you know they come out every single week. I guess... I guess maybe IMO which means nothing except everything I've taken in as it has the potential. Like any drug it effects everyone diff. I'm not denying people who use it and have been fine.

I dont know. I may give it a 3/4 week try like i said to see if I can drop down to 175. 

btw please see my other thread for a question on T4... I now need to research what the real diff between the two are and decide if i can/should run them together or seperately 

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/research-chemicals/122346-t-4-causing-weight-gain.html


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## The Raver (Sep 13, 2011)

*An older and wiser perspective from the author*

Well @awhites, though I'm older and wiser now at age 47, I'm still competing (NPC Regionals Master's Class next year), I'm still using T3 and GH, and I'm in the best shape of my life - including my thyroid gland:















My article was never intended to be the be all / end all of discussion on the topic, but as I see many young bodybuilders still poisoning themselves with DNP, I'd submit that's a much bigger problem than T3 is.  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree that "it [T3] can mess you up and that the risks don't outweigh the positives."

Peace and respect,

Rave



awhites1 said:


> *I KNOW* this is a *SUPER* old article. but i came across it on google looking up some stuff about T3. I've been considering it or T4 to help me cut these last 10 lbs. but I get SO many conflicting stories on it. Seems it aint shit or it will efff you for life. My sister went to her dr and did some blood work. Turns out she has an underactive thyroid which the doctor said he could prescribe her some meds for it but eventually it would shut down her pituitary and she'ld have to take the meds the rest of her life so she didn't.
> 
> So I lean more towards that it can mess you up and that the risks don't outweigh the positives.
> Even this very thread shows the huge inconsistencies you find when looking at this product. The first post being that it will ruin your life and the second artilcle some dude stating he used it and is fine.


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## The Raver (Sep 13, 2011)

I had some pics up with this post, but I've clearly grown retarded with my forum usage skills, so I'll try it again: Your friendly neighborhood Raver at age 47 can be seen in this album.


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