# machines or free weights?



## KANE_VICIOUS (Mar 12, 2002)

which works better machines or free weights?


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## ZECH (Mar 12, 2002)

Depends on what you want to do??
If you want to build mass, there is nothing better than basic free weights - Bench, Squats, and Deadlifts. If you want to gain definifition after you have the size, machines work very well. Also most machines are designed to take pressure off joints, if you have injuries or aches. They will build mass also to some extent, but you don't use all your stabilizing muscles like you do with free weights.


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## kuso (Mar 12, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by KANE_VICIOUS *_
> which works better machines or free weights?




For what exactly?


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## SteveDeBeave (Mar 12, 2002)

I use both.

Mostly free weights for the best gains.

Although there are some excercises on a machine that work great also.  
Cables are great for hitting some muscle groups, seated rows, pulldowns, adduction/abduction, etc.

The pec dec works the pectorals great.

Leg extensions and curls.

Leg and calf press.

Cable crunches.

Reverse fly for posterior delts

I use all of the above with my free weight workout.


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 12, 2002)

I agree, a combination of both is good!!


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## bigtom422 (Mar 12, 2002)

I dont like machines, I only use free weights.  I get better results from lifting the actual weight, not lifting through pulleys.  That is just me though.  I tried doing lat pull downs cause I cant hardly do my bodyweight, and saw zero growth, so I quit using it, and that is the only machine I use.


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 12, 2002)

I use the Smith, lat pulldown and the cable cross over but my gym doesn't have many machines anyway. 

I like using the ab machine and the bi/tri curl machine when I go to the city gyms.


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## Robboe (Mar 12, 2002)

Both.

No smiths for anything. Maybe shrugs or calf raises.


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## Maximum (Mar 12, 2002)

I like both, how could I possible do leg presses without a machine


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## KANE_VICIOUS (Mar 12, 2002)

well you could lay down and somehow balance a barbell with plates on your feet but it would be kinda hard


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## Maximum (Mar 12, 2002)

They have a machine on Body Solid's website where you push a bar straight up and down in the picture a girl is sittin on top of it as the guy uses it, looks weird but someone made it


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## KANE_VICIOUS (Mar 12, 2002)

yeah i have seen it it can be pretty painful if the bar slipped and fell on you


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## Arnold (Mar 12, 2002)

I use both, but if I had to pick one over the other as being superior it would be free weights.


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## Nick6 (Mar 13, 2002)

I use free weights when I work out with someone, a combinating of free weights and machines when I work out alone (which is 1/3 of the time). 

I think mixing it up is a good idea. The fact that I can lift more weight on a machine than on a bench tells me that the machine is either doing more work than I think or those secondary muscles get off easy.

Tonight it's chest; flat, decline & incline bench, flys and pullovers.


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## hurtyhair4u (Mar 13, 2002)

I'd have to agree with most here . Both will work . I do prefer free weights for a good solid pump as well as the balance aspect of it . But when you got no spot and you want to work to exaustion nothing like the saftey of the machines .


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## rks1969 (Mar 13, 2002)

FREE WEIGHTS RULE!!!        
machines have there place,but I have to admit I really like the sound of the plates clanging & banging.


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## seyone (Mar 13, 2002)

I use mostly free weights and cables.


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## puregains (Mar 15, 2002)

I like to train to failure , and i manage that better with machines.


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## big_lou (Mar 15, 2002)

I agree with almost everybody here, free weights are the best for an overall workout. You can do positives, negatives, tri sets, giant sets, there is just a tremendous amount of variety you can do with free weights.


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## gopro (Mar 16, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Both.
> 
> No smiths for anything. Maybe shrugs or calf raises.



Hmmm...a smith machine hater, huh?! I love that darn thing...oh well, that is what makes the world go round...


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## Robboe (Mar 16, 2002)

I do yes Mr 'opro.

I prefer the squat or power rack


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## Yanks20 (Mar 18, 2002)

free weights are a much better workout. not only are you working the primary muscle group but the secondary muscles are working just as hard. take for example bench press, not only are the pecs working but you are also using tri's, delts & lats.

machines are good for working to failure in my opinion.


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## gopro (Mar 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> I do yes Mr 'opro.
> 
> I prefer the squat or power rack



I like the power rack too, but still like smith work as well...whatever floats your boat...


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## Robboe (Mar 19, 2002)

What do you use it for?

(i've done seated militaires on it that were mmmkay. That was a few months ago tho)


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 19, 2002)

I like using the Smith for:

Heavy squats, I can get well over 100lb more than my free squat
Military press
Narrow grip bench
Decline bench (the bar is to far back on our free decline)
Bent over rows

I like the Smith but do fee when I can.


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## gopro (Mar 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> What do you use it for?
> 
> (i've done seated militaires on it that were mmmkay. That was a few months ago tho)



My favs are incline presses, squats, CG bench, bench press to neck, military press, thats about it.


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## Robboe (Mar 20, 2002)

I tried a reverse close grip bench a few times but could never get comfortable.

So you never feel uncomfortable or restricted using it?


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## Yanks20 (Mar 20, 2002)

i really feel that you cannot get as good a burn on the tri's donig CG bench with the smith machine. your range of motion is to limited. 

for reverse grip i also could not get comfortable using any machines. it sucks because once you get past a certain point it is nearly impossible to get the weight off the rack, but if you have a partner it makes it that much easier.


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## gopro (Mar 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> I tried a reverse close grip bench a few times but could never get comfortable.
> 
> So you never feel uncomfortable or restricted using it?



I'm not a fan of reverse grip bench...but no, I don't feel restricted using it. I actually use it when I want to isolate my muscle better by deactivating my stabilizers. It depends on what I feel I need for the day, and/or, where I am in my "training cycle." I truly like to make use of everything...free weights(fav), machines, smith, cables, swiss ball, etc.

My body never knows whats coming!


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## Robboe (Mar 20, 2002)

"My body never knows whats coming!"

It never does anyway.

anyhoo, please elaborate on this "training cycle" por favore.


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 20, 2002)

I feel the smith is the right machine to use for close grip as your less likly to use your chest to get the weight up because it limits you from bringing the bar further up your body. 

The smith at my gym as a slight incline as it goes up so that at the bottom of the lift is below the chest and right at the middle at the top so maybe thats why I don't have a problem with its range of motion and using a reverse grip.


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## Yanks20 (Mar 20, 2002)

never seen a smith machine angled before!

actually when you are doing CG you are working not only the tri's very heavily but the inner chest as well. at the top of the movement when you squeeze out your inner chest is going to be taking the brunt of the movement.

i guess it is just that i prefer using free weights most of the time compared to machines. just my 2C


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Yanks20 *_
> i guess it is just that i prefer using free weights most of the time compared to machines. just my 2C



I agree but they do have there place as well.


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## Robboe (Mar 20, 2002)

"actually when you are doing CG you are working not only the tri's very heavily but the inner chest as well. at the top of the movement when you squeeze out your inner chest is going to be taking the brunt of the movement. "


Oh God, Gopro is gonna LOVE you man.


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## Yanks20 (Mar 20, 2002)

hey man it's the truth!


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> Oh God, Gopro is gonna LOVE you man.


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## Yanks20 (Mar 20, 2002)

nice!


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## Robboe (Mar 20, 2002)

Ironically, Scotty's sig is totally wrong IMO.

BTW, yanks, have you read arnold's encyclopedia?


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## Yanks20 (Mar 20, 2002)

nope! just keep learning new and better things as the years go by


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## Robboe (Mar 20, 2002)

Oh God.

Who told you that close grip activates more inner chest?


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## Yanks20 (Mar 20, 2002)

anywhere you go or read for that matter will tell you that CG bench, cable crossovers & DB flies are the cornerstone for a strong inner chest


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## Robboe (Mar 20, 2002)

fdlshlfk


Excuse me. My jaw just hit the keyboard.

What's your training experience Yanks?


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## Yanks20 (Mar 20, 2002)

been lifting now for the past 6 years, no supps or AS, just a clean diet. would have to say that for the past 2 1/2 years i have moved more from regular BB to Powelifting, which is now the nuts and bolts of my routine.


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## Robboe (Mar 20, 2002)

Powerlifting you say. Nice one.

What are your big three lifts?

do you do westside?

what's your stats?


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 20, 2002)

I agree that they work the chest as a Synergist muscle but I wouldn't use it as a chest exercise and wouldn't consider it to be a "cornerstone" for a strong inner chest.


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## Yanks20 (Mar 20, 2002)

5'11" - 206 - 10%BF

i would say that bench, squats and deads are the foudation movements. i have also started to get into cleans as well. 

current stats:
bench - 375
squats - 405x6
deads - 450x6

i normally don't max out on squats or deads but i have entered a friendly competition with my buddy that will take place at the end of june! here are my goals by then:

bench - 425
squats - 505 (might even be able to get this now, not sure)
deads - 545


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## Yanks20 (Mar 20, 2002)

scott,

ok, do you work out tri's on the same day as chest?

if so try this, after completing your chest exercises (i.e. - flat, incline, flies). for your first tri workout do CG bench and as you complete the lift squeeze your chest really hard at the top. not only will you begin to work the tri's really well but burning the inner chest. guaranteed you will feel the burn!


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 20, 2002)

I do work tri's on chest day, thats why I don't feel that the chest gets hit hard on the CG, but i'll pay more attention next time I do them and see if I feel any "burn" in the inner chest area.


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 20, 2002)

I'm wondering if using a reverse grip on CG bench has anything to do with chest involvment or the lack there of?


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## Yanks20 (Mar 20, 2002)




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## Yanks20 (Mar 20, 2002)

i read about a month ago in muscle fitness someone promoting it for the chest but personally i feel more of a tri workout no matter how i do it. you are essentially lowering the weight below the chest area and the tri's figure more into that type of movement.


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## Bob Bob (Mar 20, 2002)

free weights


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## Yanks20 (Mar 20, 2002)

free weights what?


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## Robboe (Mar 20, 2002)

With lifts like them yanks you'd be a hit with the PLer's on wbb.


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## gopro (Mar 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> "My body never knows whats coming!"
> 
> It never does anyway.
> ...




I train on a 4 week mini-cycle...
week 1- power week...reps 2-6...compound movements...slow negatives and explosive positives

week 2- eclectic training...reps 6-20...mixture of movements...various rep speeds

week 3- "shock training"...pre exaust supersets...drop sets...other intensity techniques...fast pace

week 4- "recovery"...no free weights, just machines and cables...constant motion not stressing the negative...no sets to failure

This is the basics of it. If you were interested I could post a sample workout for chest or something...

Since starting this method which I developed about 5 years ago I have gone from offseason 220 at 12 % BF to my current 250-255 at 12 % BF...


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## gopro (Mar 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> "actually when you are doing CG you are working not only the tri's very heavily but the inner chest as well. at the top of the movement when you squeeze out your inner chest is going to be taking the brunt of the movement. "
> 
> 
> Oh God, Gopro is gonna LOVE you man.



1- yup, I love Yanks!!!
2- I hate ignorance
3- I hate those unwilling to learn
4- I love pizza
5- I love being huge
6- I love being strong
7- I hate close-mindedness
8- I hate making this list 
9- Gonna stop now


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## Robboe (Mar 20, 2002)

1. I'm not ignorant. I am tried and tested and wanting money back. I am also read up and decided and going a "better route".

2. I'm not unwilling to learn, i just don't need to hear a wrong answer to a question i already know the right answer to.

3. I'm not close-minded. see points 1 & 2.

4. yes, post a sample routine. I'd like to see.


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## bubbasr (Mar 21, 2002)

Free weights rule it's raw power.


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## urikaburi (Mar 21, 2002)

My friend ad I have free weights in his basement. Training 6 months now, planning to go to the  gym soon.


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## 101Tazman (Mar 21, 2002)

I use both. I start with free weight and usally finish with the machines to isolate more


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## gopro (Mar 21, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 1. I'm not ignorant. I am tried and tested and wanting money back. I am also read up and decided and going a "better route".
> 
> 2. I'm not unwilling to learn, i just don't need to hear a wrong answer to a question i already know the right answer to.
> ...



I was not saying that stuff about you Chicken, just in general.


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## Robboe (Mar 21, 2002)

liar


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## gopro (Mar 21, 2002)

That was a funny response TCD...however...

I do not feel you are ignorant. In fact, you are quite intelligent.

I have no idea whether you are willing to learn...I know you think you've learned plenty from Paul and Chris...too bad you aren't willing to learn from me  

You are not necessarily close minded, but you are wrong about this issue...my track record is one that nobody HAS EVER asked for their money back! In fact, they ask me why I don't charge more?

Sample chest 4 week cycle...

Week 1 :
-bench press...4 x 2-4
-incline press...3 x 4-6
-weighted dips...2-3 x 6-8

Week 2 :
-incline dumbell press...2 x 6-8
-smith press to neck...2 x 8-12
-flyes...2 x 12-15
-cable crossover...2 x 15-20

Week 3 :
-superset...machine flye/flat dumbell bench press...2 x 6-10 each
-superset...cable crossover/smith incline press...2 x 6-10 each
-dropset...bench press...triple drop of 6-8/6-8/6-8

Week 4 :
-cable flye...3 x 10-12
-hammer incline press...3 x 10-12
-vertical machine press...2 x 12-15
-bottom cable crossover...1-2 x 12-15

*no sets to failure in week 4

Thats just a sample cycle. Anyone besides TCD that wants a massive chest...try it!


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## KANE_VICIOUS (Mar 21, 2002)

heeeey thanks for making this my 1st 4 pages thread


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## gopro (Mar 22, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by KANE_VICIOUS *_
> heeeey thanks for making this my 1st 4 pages thread



Give Chicken Daddy the credit he deserves!


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## Yanks20 (Mar 22, 2002)

gotta love those drop sets. they are a killer. i particularly like doing drop sets with fly exercises, between DB flies, cable crossovers & peck deck your killing yourself, but heh that's why we lift!


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## Robboe (Mar 22, 2002)

Actually i never got most of this from paul and chris. Paul just makes sense and chris has good experience and talks sense.

I like Paul cause he's a no-shit kinda person and gets straight to the point: worry about getting big before trying to add detail. Makes perfect sense to me.


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## Yanks20 (Mar 22, 2002)

i know exactly what you are saying. in the first 4 years i strictly concentrated on building as much mass as possible. i got up to about 225 but felt at only 5'11" i was carrying to much weight.

i started my first cut cycle and got down to 195 with 8%BF. that is when i started doing more and more defining movements. 

in reality it is all what you are looking for. if you want to put on a lot of mass stick to the basic movements. every once in a while it is good to switch things up and give the muscles a shocking.


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## Robboe (Mar 22, 2002)

lol, wtf is a "defining movement"?!


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## Yanks20 (Mar 22, 2002)

targeting certain areas of the chest that needed more development than others. in the beginning my upper chest was lagging behind in development and really didn't concern me until i was in the sport for a longer period of time.


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## Robboe (Mar 22, 2002)

So you believe that things like concentration curls build more lower bicep?


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## Yanks20 (Mar 22, 2002)

actually i would have to say that concentration curls are a exercise to develop a better peak in the bi's. preacher curls are the ones that target the lower portion of the bicep.


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## Robboe (Mar 22, 2002)

lol.

Oh shit.

And will hanging leg raises build more lower abs?


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## Yanks20 (Mar 22, 2002)

ok dude, your getting a little carried away!


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## Robboe (Mar 22, 2002)

No, really.

How about supsinated grip rows to build lower upper back and pronated for upper upper back?

haha.


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## Yanks20 (Mar 22, 2002)

your killing me!


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## Arnold (Mar 22, 2002)




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## Robboe (Mar 22, 2002)

Are you yawning or crying, prince?


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## gopro (Mar 23, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Are you yawning or crying, prince?



You have to excuse Prince...he gets sleepy when people act dopey....


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## Robboe (Mar 24, 2002)

Yeah, so pack it in Gopro!


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## gopro (Mar 24, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Yeah, so pack it in Gopro!




Funny Chicken! Go back to the WBB and play with the boys over there. Maybe they will make you a mod in the Gonna Do What I Want No Matter Whether I Grow Or Not Forum....


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## Robboe (Mar 24, 2002)

hehe.

I turned down mod opportunity months ago dude. I got no desire to be one.

And how did you know about that forum?


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## Maki Riddington (Mar 24, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> 
> 
> 
> Funny Chicken! Go back to the WBB and play with the boys over there. Maybe they will make you a mod in the Gonna Do What I Want No Matter Whether I Grow Or Not Forum....



*** What's that supposed to mean?


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## Neil (Mar 24, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> 
> 
> 
> Funny Chicken! Go back to the WBB and play with the boys over there. Maybe they will make you a mod in the Gonna Do What I Want No Matter Whether I Grow Or Not Forum....



HaHa LMFAO!!!!!


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## gopro (Mar 24, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Maki Riddington *_
> 
> 
> *** What's that supposed to mean?



Hey Maki...how are you? I was not picking on WBB if thats what you are thinking. I was picking on our good friend Chicken Daddy. We have been having a little debate...that I am right about, but I digress...and I was basically telling him to go back where he came from...WBB. All in good fun Maki...all in good fun.

Hey, originally I was supposed to be made a mod at WBB, until Paul and Chris freaked out. I could have been having this argument over there, but TCD came into MY HOUSE, LOL.

Be good Maki. Good to see you over here!


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## gopro (Mar 24, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Neil *_
> 
> 
> HaHa LMFAO!!!!!




Love giving you a good laugh my friend


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## Robboe (Mar 25, 2002)

haha you had this argument over there. And that's why you're here.


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## gopro (Mar 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> haha you had this argument over there. And that's why you're here.



True..I did have that argument over there and got sick of trying to teach old dogs new tricks. However, I got SO MANY emails and PMs from members asking me to go back to WBB that now I spend a little down time over there.


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## Robboe (Mar 25, 2002)

Who asked you back?


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## gopro (Mar 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Who asked you back?



Many guys did. They all said they miss my perspective, and all of the knowledge I offered. I guess they wanted the other side of training than Paul or Chris might give.


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## wildlifer_jones (Mar 25, 2002)

If your just beginning, stick to the free weights.  It will develop all the secondary support muscles and train your mind and body to adjust to correct form.  Use machines to isolate stubborn body parts as you advance.


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## tiger26 (Mar 26, 2002)

free weights are the best.. as you have to use your stablising muscles too.. using machines dont put your stabilising muscles to work.


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## Maki Riddington (Apr 2, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> 
> 
> Be good Maki.




*** Lol.


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## gopro (Apr 3, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Maki Riddington *_
> 
> 
> 
> *** Lol.



????


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## Robboe (Apr 3, 2002)

Does "many" = Spidey and Monstar by any chance?


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## Scotty the Body (Apr 3, 2002)

Could we keep our comments on the topic please.


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## gopro (Apr 3, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Does "many" = Spidey and Monstar by any chance?



Actually no...those guys were glad to see me back, but not the original ones to ask me back.


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