# PCT without Nolvadex



## musclepump (Feb 28, 2006)

What are the options to run as far as PCT goes, if I refuse to use Nolvadex? My eyesight gets worse with Nolva every time; the first time I used it I thought it was a coincidence, then after the second run I notice it's cumulative. I'm still shut down from the 1-AD/4-Derm/Nor-Derm cycle, and needing to get back up, but I can't do the Nolva. Right now I'm using AMRx, 6-OXO and extra Tribulus. I have Arimidex and Femara on hand; are either of those applicable?


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## Pirate! (Feb 28, 2006)

Yes, use Adex at .25 mg/day. You could also try raloxifene at 120 mg/day. How long since your cycle ended and when did you stop taking nolva?


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## musclepump (Feb 28, 2006)

Ended about two weeks ago, stopped the Nolva a week ago.


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## Tier (Feb 28, 2006)

I only keep nolva on hand in case of gyno personally.


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## musclepump (Feb 28, 2006)

Tier said:
			
		

> I only keep nolva on hand in case of gyno personally.


 
What do you use for PCT then?


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## The Monkey Man (Feb 28, 2006)




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## Tier (Feb 28, 2006)

Ever try low dose clomid?

I only use rxt and anabmatrx but I wait 4 months in between cycles.


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## Pirate! (Feb 28, 2006)

Fuck Clomid. If nolva screws up his eyes, clomid will blind him. I'd stick with adex. It will be a good week before you could get your hands on some raloxifene, which may cause the same vision problem--though, I  have yet to hear that complaint about raloxifene.


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## musclepump (Feb 28, 2006)

Ditto on the "Fuck Clomid." Even before Nolva messed my eyes up, I avoided Clomid out of fear of vision problems.

If Adex will work, I'll stick with that as I haven't heard any possibilites of vision problems using it. If Raloxifene has the potential, I'll avoid it.


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## topolo (Feb 28, 2006)

I don't think Adex raises natural test levels back to normal.....does it?


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## Pirate! (Mar 1, 2006)

topolo said:
			
		

> I don't think Adex raises natural test levels back to normal.....does it?


Because AIs lower estrogen, your hypothalamus isn't signalled to halt GnRH production. GrRN --> FSH/LH --> Testosterone


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## Guru (Mar 1, 2006)

Is this really a common side to using Nolva and Clomid?    I never had a problem with my sight. How common is this Pirates?


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## musclepump (Mar 1, 2006)

Guru said:
			
		

> Is this really a common side to using Nolva and Clomid?    I never had a problem with my sight. How common is this Pirates?



It's very rare with Nolvadex, more common with Clomid, though still not overly usual. Clomid does tend to cause some people to see spots or things temporarily, though.


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## musclepump (Mar 1, 2006)

From Nolvadex.com:

If I start taking NOLVADEX therapy, should I watch for any unusual symptoms or undergo any special monitoring?

Promptly report any new breast lumps, menstrual irregularities, abnormal vaginal bleeding, change in vaginal discharge, pelvic pain or pressure, leg swelling or tenderness, unexplained shortness of breath, or *changes in vision *because they may be signs of serious side effects that may occur with NOLVADEX therapy. It is generally accepted that endometrial sampling is not required unless symptoms of early endometrial cancer occur.


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## Guru (Mar 1, 2006)

HMMM ok thanks


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## nsimmons (Mar 1, 2006)

Something to add, my mother and grandmother both had breast cancer and both sufferered vision loss from tamoxifen. Permanent in both cases. Dont know if theres a genetic link, or gender specific.


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## musclepump (Mar 1, 2006)

nsimmons said:
			
		

> Something to add, my mother and grandmother both had breast cancer and both sufferered vision loss from tamoxifen. Permanent in both cases. Dont know if theres a genetic link, or gender specific.



*Grabs balls* Not gender specific.

Yeah, I'm not interested in going blind, so I stopped taking it. I've noticed my vision hasn't gotten worse when I'm off of Nolva, so I assume it's just cumulative while on it.


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## Pirate! (Mar 1, 2006)

My sight was so bad from Clomid that almost couldn't drive home one night and considered asking my gf to drive. I wasn't drinking, either. My condition was temporary, thankfully. Nolva doesn't give me that same problem.


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## BP2000 (Sep 15, 2011)

bump


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## Digitalash (Sep 15, 2011)

wow I've never even heard of that being a side effect of nolva, I've heard it with clomid but was always told it's temporary? 

arimidex will bring your test levels back up but will cause estrogen rebound when you come off, aromasin would be a much better option. Not ideal but if you're dead sure it's the nolva then I guess you don't have much choice. Also look into triptorelin, there's not a ton of research on it for restoring test levels but from what's out there it's very effective.


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## Runner22 (Sep 15, 2011)

I used clomid for the first time during my last PCT and at 100mg ED (first 2 weeks) I experienced major tracers every morning right after waking.  Within 30 mins or so they were gone and at lower doses (75 or 50mg) no problems at all.  Nolvadex has never cause any vision issues for me.


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## LightBearer (Sep 15, 2011)

wait the eyesight issues with nolvadex are permanent?????


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## Beef-Master (Sep 15, 2011)

Never read about vision problems with either... Hmmmm


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## Vibrant (Sep 16, 2011)

BP2000 said:


> bump



Why would you bump a 5 year old thread?


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## BP2000 (Sep 16, 2011)

Digitalash said:


> wow I've never even heard of that being a side effect of nolva, I've heard it with clomid but was always told it's temporary?
> 
> arimidex will bring your test levels back up but will cause estrogen rebound when you come off, aromasin would be a much better option. Not ideal but if you're dead sure it's the nolva then I guess you don't have much choice. Also look into triptorelin, there's not a ton of research on it for restoring test levels but from what's out there it's very effective.



Another guy used Toremifene in place of Nolva.  Said his balls came screaming back w/in 3 day's.


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## Pika (Sep 16, 2011)

I like this thred, lets get strait to the point nolva is the best with gyno and clod is the best with your test now what i want to know is how often are the sides? If i get sides like nessed up eyes as i am short sighted will it stay or will it go after or?


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## BP2000 (Sep 17, 2011)

Pika said:


> I like this thred, lets get strait to the point nolva is the best with gyno and clod is the best with your test now what i want to know is how often are the sides? If i get sides like nessed up eyes as i am short sighted will it stay or will it go after or?



THat is what I am curious too as well.  What % of the ppl who take Clomid report eyesight spot's as a side effect. 

I am a pilot so taking something that could potentially effect my eyesight would be a costly mistake.


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## heckler7 (Sep 17, 2011)

this is interesting, seems like this is  rare since there hasn't been another thread on this in five years. I would guess that vision side effects may be blood pressure related.


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## Pika (Sep 17, 2011)

No1 talking?


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## heckler7 (Sep 17, 2011)

Pika said:


> No1 talking?


 well it is saturday, I have to work today otherwise I probably wouldnt b here either.


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## Pika (Sep 17, 2011)

Lool true,


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