# All heavy workouts while cutting?



## AKIRA (Jan 25, 2009)

I know that when one cuts, if they want to keep muscle, they should lift heavy.  However, are all the exercises on any lifting day following the same principle?  

Your first workout will be the freshest, so if its a lift you want to keep numbers in, you go as heavy as possible, right?  Well how about the other workouts that follow it on that day?  How does that volume truly look in comparison to the first exercise?  Plus, for arguments sake, all exercises are compounds!

I am planning on cutting again and Ive looked into some programs such as P/RR/S as I have never used it for cutting.  However, the question remains...


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## Skib (Jan 25, 2009)

another Q while we're on the topic... should you ever try to progress your lifts while cutting? or are you just looking to maintain your lifts to preserve muscle mass?


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## Built (Jan 25, 2009)

I'm a big fan of heavy, low-volume training while cutting. I've brought up lifts during these periods on numerous occasions - although not recently. 

I'll add that there is certainly room in my heart for a bit of higher-rep or so-called "metabolic" work on a cut, if for no other reason than to give my joints and tendons a bit of a break - but yeah, a few days a week of the low-rep heavy stuff on a cut is prudent.


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## KelJu (Jan 25, 2009)

I have had success maintaining size with high intensity low volume training while on a cut, but it sure does hurt the ego when my numbers dropped.


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## AKIRA (Jan 25, 2009)

So the volume wouldnt change from one exercise to the next in one day?

Could anyone provide an example of what I could do?  Lets say I want the first exercise on a push day, Bench, to be the heaviest.  What would that volume be?  More so, what do the following exercises' volume look like?


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## Double D (Jan 25, 2009)

Theres no stopping my numbers dropping when I cut....I think its just do you want the numbers or the cuts? I know guys who can maintain numbers and cut up.....myself, well its just not going to happen.


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## Skib (Jan 25, 2009)

another question I'd like to know is if there is any benefit to taking creatine while on a cut?


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## Built (Jan 25, 2009)

Yes! Zero calories, helps you train = good.


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## FishOrCutBait (Jan 25, 2009)

Skib said:


> another question I'd like to know is if there is any benefit to taking creatine while on a cut?


I dont see any compelling reason to ever stop taking it


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## Built (Jan 25, 2009)

I often use this to cut, but with reduced volume:

3-5x5 for the heavy compound
2-3x8-12 for the second movement and that's it. 

For example, quad dominant day looks like this:

3-5x5 squats
3x8 split squats (each side)
3x8 RDLs

If I'm feeling REALLY motivated, I might do some bicep curls or chins, but we're talking "cosmetic pump" here.

Horizontal push pull might look like this:
3-5x5 rack pulls
2x8 dumbbell rows

3-5x5 barbell bench
2x8 dumbbell bench

MAYBE 3x8 weighted crunches

If I do any cardio, it's 20 minutes start to finish at the end of the workout, possibly some interval work in the first few minutes of it. 

Hope this helps.


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## Skib (Jan 26, 2009)

FishOrCutBait said:


> I dont see any compelling reason to ever stop taking it



i'm pretty sure you're supposed to take some time off it every now and then, no?


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## AKIRA (Jan 26, 2009)

Built said:


> I often use this to cut, but with reduced volume:
> 
> 3-5x5 for the heavy compound
> 2-3x8-12 for the second movement and that's it.
> ...



Thats exactly what I looking for.  Thanks!  Ill comment on this later.


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## Hench (Jan 26, 2009)

Built said:


> I often use this to cut, but with reduced volume:
> 
> 3-5x5 for the heavy compound
> 2-3x8-12 for the second movement and that's it.
> ...



I just started my cut today, and this is the exact routine im using.

Thanks Built!!


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## Mikey B (Jan 26, 2009)

So are you saying that you do a morning work out and an afternoon one?  Is this to seperate cardio and weights or is it two seperate weight lifting sessions?  Because being natural, doing two weight sessions a day on a cut sounds catabolic to me...


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## urbanski (Jan 26, 2009)

thanks built


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## Built (Jan 26, 2009)

Mikey B said:


> So are you saying that you do a morning work out and an afternoon one?  Is this to seperate cardio and weights or is it two seperate weight lifting sessions?  Because being natural, doing two weight sessions a day on a cut sounds catabolic to me...



One session. Weights, then cardio, then go home. 
Moondog, AKIRA - good luck! Keep the protein and fat up as high as your calories allow, do a carbup from time to time as required.


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## FishOrCutBait (Jan 26, 2009)

Skib said:


> i'm pretty sure you're supposed to take some time off it every now and then, no?



says who?

why should we? 

creatine exists in your body at all times. we are just increasing the amount of it


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## Skib (Jan 26, 2009)

FishOrCutBait said:


> says who?
> 
> why should we?



i don't know that's why i'm asking?



FishOrCutBait said:


> creatine exists in your body at all times. we are just increasing the amount of it



that's not very good logic... a lot of things exist in your body at all times, doesn't mean it's safe or smart to increase the amount of it...

i'm not arguing against taking it all the time, i just genuinely want to know if its ok...

mainly i'd like to know if it maintains its effectiveness if taken all the time... or if its effectiveness decreases with chronic use...

i'd also like to know what the effects of chronic use on the kidneys are...


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## AKIRA (Jan 26, 2009)

Built said:


> I often use this to cut, but with reduced volume:
> 
> 3-*5x5* for the heavy compound
> 2-3x*8-12* for the second movement and that's it.
> ...





So 5x5 would be the heaviest at first then 8-12 for the secondary movement.
Ok.
Why did you think of 8-12 on the secondary movement?  Really curious.  Was this the "metabolic work" you mentioned earlier?


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## Built (Jan 26, 2009)

Read the link for "Baby Got Back" - you'll see the rationale in there for the rep ranges. 

Read this link about complexes, which is also mentioned in my cardio article to see about the metabolic work. 

I just posted my cut-plan for this year in my blog, if you want to see how I intend to blend it all together this year.


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## AKIRA (Jan 26, 2009)

Oh, well I ask for specifics at THIS moment cuz I am at work and those links wont work.  Ill take a gander later.

I am going to the gym today and will try a ham dominant day (night) with all in mind and well see how it goes.


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## Built (Jan 26, 2009)

No problem. Good luck!


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## Merkaba (Jan 27, 2009)

FishOrCutBait said:


> says who?
> 
> why should we?
> 
> creatine exists in your body at all times. we are just increasing the amount of it



Is that your logic?  

If so, then so does test.  

I recommend cycling everything.


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## gbgamblers23 (Jan 27, 2009)

i'de say cycle creatine if only for the mental boost you get when you start to bulk up from the water weight....its good for the moral


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