# Man Tits



## ProBodyFitness (May 2, 2004)

I am new to bodybuilding.  My arms and legs are getting their but my core of my body is not.  Has anybody besides me been overweight and have un-normal size man boobs and a big gut have any success stories so I don't get distressed with myself and start slacking.  I need the motivation!  If you have any before and after pics I would like to see those.  Also what workouts did you do and how long?  Hopefully I am not the only one. Please Help!
Thanks 
Pat


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## Dieter (May 2, 2004)

Well I have not had 100 % success yet, but have improved a great deal.  I have went from a 44" waist and a 50" gut/luv handles  to a 38" waist and 41" gut.   I f you have lost alot of fat already,  it may be time to stop watching the scale and looking to the tape.  These last 3 inches are going to be tough, they always are.  I think Its time to not worry about that, and just gaet on as much muscle as possible and just eat 4000+ good calories a day, keeping fat to under 100 grams intake per day.  As the muscle comes, fat will come off.

As to the man tits, Im afraid I will ive with those the rest of my life, Im testosterone deficient, and the T replacement medication can reak havok if your gynomastic prone, as I am.  Ill probally still have some when I reach 10% BF.


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## VonDrunk (May 3, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Dieter *_
> As to the man tits, Im afraid I will ive with those the rest of my life, Im testosterone deficient, and the T replacement medication can reak havok if your gynomastic prone, as I am.  Ill probally still have some when I reach 10% BF.



Hey Dieter...what kind of T replacement are you using?  I too am T deficient and have been on 1CC Test Cyp, bi-weekly for about a year. No issues with Gyno, but it kinda sucks thinking I might be shooting up for the rest of my life...

VonDrunk


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## Mudge (May 3, 2004)

If all your testosterone is converting to estrogen via high bodyfat that isn't going to help matters. Aromatase enzymes are what do this, and they lie in your bodyfat. This is how men get "man boobs."


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## Dieter (May 3, 2004)

Von drunk,

Im taking HVG every other day (1000 units).  I feel great and I do not mind the injections every other day as I know what the alternative feels like.  I had been working out for about 3 months when i decided just to quit the TGel I was taking until I got the HCG.  I lost 12 lbs in 2 weeks, and gained an a half inch on my waist, no kidding....I aint going back.

Mudge, Yes I do convert to estrogen more than normal.  But are you saying that I will convert less the leaner I am?  Are you saying that the leaner "I" am, the  better I can build muscle?  Does this mean I should diet more before trying to build mass?  Does this mean Bulk eating would be a BAD idea for me?

Please elaborate!  Thanks!


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## Mudge (May 3, 2004)

1000iu EOD is very high, I run 500iu every 4th day or so. Using more than this has been shown to desensatize the testes response to LH, and it WILL raise estrogen levels again through aromitization.

Women use anti estrogens to try and help them cut up pre-contest, legs most notably. Playing with estrogen levels can be dangerous, but if its a problem generally you would be better off cutting before bulking.

Some people though with low bodyfat just seem gyno prone. My own bodyfat has probably never been under 10% except perhaps when I was pretty young, but its not much of an issue for me somehow.

The less that gets converted to estrogen then the longer it remains in the system as testosterone, waiting to hit the receptors. So yes, results are better indirectly through this. Using anti aromatase in small doses has been shown to as much as double testosterone levels in men with low T numbers. About 85% of the testosterone in your body is made through this conversion process, very little is made in the testes directly.


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## LAM (May 3, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> 1000iu EOD is very high, I run 500iu every 4th day or so. Using more than this has been shown to desensatize the testes response to LH, and it WILL raise estrogen levels again through aromitization.



ditto to that !...you should never go higher than 500 i.u's of HCG


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## Mudge (May 3, 2004)

Its really not needed, especially with a frequency of every other day! 250iu should be more than enough even for someone on high amounts of testosterone beyond that of HRT with EOD shots.

Did your doctor actually put you on that kind of regimin?

This kind of protocol of 250-500iu came from a well known HRT doc, you can do it as frequently as neccessary just not over 500iu per administration.


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## DeadBolt (May 3, 2004)

Hey man I was in your situation once before to.  I was at one point well into the 230lbs+ and had a waist size of about 42.  I was very fat a round with man boobs.  I have tried dieting and such my whole life but until I combined proper dieting and workign out which I learned it all from these boards I have made drastic changes.  I now have pecs not boobs and those love handles are disappearing.  I have a 4 pack coming in but still have some stretched skin that needs time to heal up.  Take a look at my progress pictures and you can see the changes.  The single picture of me fat was when I had already lost some weight.

Just keep at it, I'm living proof that anyone can lose weight and start to look better and most of all feel better about their life.  And definatly go by the tape and the way you look more so then by the scale, they are decieving.


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## VonDrunk (May 3, 2004)

Damn Deadbolt...I just checked out your pics.  

Your not kidding, you made some KILLER progress!  Good work!


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## DeadBolt (May 3, 2004)

Heh yea its gettin there and I have a picture here next to my computer of me even chunkier but I refuse to put it on the computer.  Thats my motivation.

But yea c'mon if my fat ass can lose the weight and get in somewhat decent shape ANYONE can with a little hard work and determination.  Just keep at it and stay focused.


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## Dieter (May 3, 2004)

> Did your doctor actually put you on that kind of regimin?



Actually, he put me on 3000 twice a week.  I cut the dosage to half.   I was on Tgel before HCG, it gave me gynomastia even worse than what I have now.  

Also, guys, the danger about doses over 1000 is if you are injecting inter-muscle.  I am injecting just under the skin, subcutaneously.  MUCH slower and level release, it doesnt hit you all at once.   

And be careful classifying me in a normal group or steriod user.  My T-levels without assistance are equivalent to a 60 year old man.  And my recent LH and T levels are in the lower half of normal on my current treatment.   If my current LH is so high it could cause my Testes to stop producing T, i wonder how guys with naurally high LH levels Testes can handle it thier entire lives.




> This kind of protocol of 250-500iu came from a well known HRT doc, you can do it as frequently as neccessary just not over 500iu per administration.



Again, subcutaneously.  It takes 3 days for a subcutaneous shot to run through the body, so you can look at it like a 333u administration.


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## Mudge (May 3, 2004)

Subcutaneous injections may be slower due to poor blood flow, although asorbtion % is much better which is why the boxes specifically state SubQ. Only one brand says IM and its a mystery as to why.

I'm NOT classifying you as a steroid user, that is why I said its completely and utterly assinine that your doctor would prescribe that much for you. He is behind the times in HRT from what I have seen, I do so much that I am way outside of normal and do fine with less although otherwise I would be completely and utterly, not there as far as the nads go.

I didn't say you would stop producting test naturally, I said you desensatize them to LH. You are using too much exogenous LH stimulation.

Again this is my opinion from what I've seen, if you are happy then be happy.


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## ruvainc (May 4, 2004)

*supplements and shock the body*

I have successfully lost a bunch of weight while adding muscle using a low carb diet, lots of exercise (weights and aerobics) and supplements.

The diet:watch the carbs at night and eat plenty of protein.

Exercise: shock the body sometimes. Push a little harder and your body responds.  If you have a fatty chest rather than build massive pecs that may highlight the fat more, build your back, shoulders and neck. However, the bottom line is you must lose body fat. Those with a disproportionate amount of fat on the chest will likely lose the fat on the chest last. All that means is you have to lose lots of body fat if youwant to live your dream.

Supplements: Protein shakes after working out , createan, BCAA's and many others. Make sure your body has enough nutrients to recover so you can get back to the gym. I have also successfully used ephedrine for a couple of years now. I don't know if it helps with weight loss but it does get me to the gym everytime I take one.

Last, for that stubborn fat on the chest and stomach that we former fat guys have, I think I might have the anwer. I have done some reading on cortisal and how it effects the body. There is definately a relationship between body stress (physical or otherwise) and cortisal and a further relationship between cortisal and fat gain. 

I have began experimenting with Ab Solved, a topical solution that controls cortisol and is supposed to target the area applied.  Although I am still skeptical, after two weeks I am impressed. My weight is about the same but I have less fat on my chest.

I am going to continue for two more weeks adding some supplements that suppress cortisone and getting into a caloric defiict and see what happens.


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## Mudge (May 4, 2004)

*Re: supplements and shock the body*



> _*Originally posted by ruvainc *_
> Last, for that stubborn fat on the chest and stomach that we former fat guys have, I think I might have the anwer. I have done some reading on cortisal and how it effects the body. There is definately a relationship between body stress (physical or otherwise) and cortisal and a further relationship between cortisal and fat gain.



I've run into this too, unfortunately I have occasional anxiety.


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## joey (May 4, 2004)

I REALLY should have taken pictures from when I started my new lifestyle of eating better and running every night

I was worried about my pecs..as they had excess fat and really bothered me to look at them..but they have gotten a LOT smaller..I still have a little bit of excess fat to burn off, but I'm getting there!

Keep in mind that your body will lose weight proportionally..don't expect to lose all your fat on your chest by itself, it will eventually come off as you lose your body fat!


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## joey (May 4, 2004)

*Re: supplements and shock the body*



> _*Originally posted by ruvainc *_
> I have successfully lost a bunch of weight while adding muscle using a low carb diet, lots of exercise (weights and aerobics) and supplements.
> 
> The diet:watch the carbs at night and eat plenty of protein.
> ...



I very much agree with you..

Now, your fat on your chest..is this fat right underneath your skin? Or is it under your muscle? A simple way is..can you pinch the fat like your love handles? Or is it hard to pinch, like an actual beer belly? If it's pinchable fat, I believe Lipoderm Ultra is the best solution, if not, you'll want to use Absolved.

It took me about a month, I believe to use my bottle of lipoderm ultra, I'm thinking about ordering another, and I think (and hope) by the time I'm done with that bottle, most of that pinchable fat will be gone from my stomach, and I'll start using AbSolved.


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## ruvainc (May 4, 2004)

*chest fat*

Now, your fat on your chest..is this fat right underneath your skin? Or is it under your muscle? A simple way is..can you pinch the fat like your love handles? Or is it hard to pinch, like an actual beer belly? If it's pinchable fat, I believe Lipoderm Ultra is the best solution, if not, you'll want to use Absolved.

Although the fat on the chest appears to be above the muscle and it can be pinched, based upon my reading, unless your body fat is reasonbably low, absolved seems to be the the better option.  I have tried both absolved and the original lipoderm and  my chest fat has responded better to absolved. I have yet to try the lipoderm ultra and will do so when the absolved seems to have run its course.  The answer probably can be found by determining what the problem is. Clearly if it is cortisal, absolved is the answer. I have a feeling each person would respond differently to each option and experimenting with either or both would be the best option.


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## expression_ (May 4, 2004)

http://forums.bulknutrition.com/?showtopic=1498

VAT - This type of fat is considered to be the underlying fat beneth muscle. This type of fat is also located around organs as a means of cussion/protection.

Sub-Q/SAT - This type of fat is found directly underneath the skin. This would be the type of fat that is "jiggly" or "pinchable".

==

From dsade of Avant Labs response, you'd use AbSolved for VAT and Lipoderm-Ultra for Sub-Q/Sat

Is it just me, or does Lipoderm-Y (the original) one seem obsolete? When it comes to all of these discussions about the two, people are always referring to Lipoderm Ultra, rather than the original..does anyone have more information on this?

I'm actually considering changing my decision of ordering another bottle of the Lipoderm Ultra and getting the AbSolved instead..just because my stomach has become a lot firmer..so I'm thinking I need to attack the VAT fat now..


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## ProBodyFitness (May 4, 2004)

Is that stuff safe for the body?  I am only 16 but I am building crazy amounts of muscle underneath that fat on my stomach and chest and I want it off real BAD!  What is in it and what are your guys' opinions and results?  And pictures?
Thanks alot for everybodys help,
Pat


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## DeadBolt (May 5, 2004)

I have been taking both for several weeks now and am almost donwe with my bottles and I have noticed some results, but it is also in conjunction with very strict dieting and working out.  Its like everything else, you need to do all the steps in order to get some results not just 1 of the 3.


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