# Deca as a back relief cycle



## JCBourne (Sep 14, 2010)

Now I know it's not made for it, and theres a million other things I should do. I have done a lot to try to fix it, so why not just try this?

My soul purpose would be to see if the deca would actually help. Some say it helps, some don't. I'm a positive guy and want to give it a try myself. I have a disc that is having some issues. They had done tons of things, with no luck. Before I think about surgery I'd like to give this a shot. Yes, I know the pain may just go away while on cycle but I read of one guy that did one 10 week cycle and still doesn't have back pain 8 years later.

I would run Test e/deca. Nothing else unless needed. Again, my soul purpose is to see if it helps my back. I'm not going to be one of those guys wondering if it'll help and then take 5 other steroids while trying to gain 20 pounds as well, not my objective.

I know I just need a low cruise of test e to avoid the deca-dick. If theres one thing beside seeing if deca helps my back is avoid deca dick at all costs. 

Would running a AI to avoid bloat effect the use of the deca?

What dosages would be best for this? It's hard for me to find any log to try to follow because almost all of them are wondering if deca will help and then hope to gain 20 pounds on cycle.

When I do attempt this, should I not push myself working out?

This cycle is a ways away, but I like to be fully prepared.


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## unclem (Sep 14, 2010)

deca will help, but if its bad, nothing but rest will do it but try it. i train with all kinds of pain every session brother.


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## JCBourne (Sep 14, 2010)

Willing it to give it a shot. If nothing comes from it, let it be a lesson learned. That's what life's about right?


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## unclem (Sep 14, 2010)

^^^ your not new to the game brother. i would deff try it at 600mg wk. i use 750 for joints, when iam acheing beond believe.


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## Krys (Sep 14, 2010)

percs and muscle relaxers the pers for the pain and the muscle relaxers will ease your muscles around your back if there tense   try it out


drugs are the answer to alot of things in life JK


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## Spunout (Sep 14, 2010)

I have a similar situation as you bro... Every time i cycle deca it helps.  Go for it...


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## pyes (Sep 14, 2010)

At higher concentrations, your AI may dry out your joints possibly counteracting the deca.


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## MDR (Sep 14, 2010)

Krys said:


> percs and muscle relaxers the pers for the pain and the muscle relaxers will ease your muscles around your back if there tense   try it out
> 
> 
> drugs are the answer to alot of things in life JK



Trouble with drugs is they gradually stop working over time, as the body gets used to the dosage.  Ok on occasion, but hot as a regular thing-IMHO.


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## masokist (Sep 14, 2010)

Same thing with me i have a bulging disk, got pain 24/7


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## heavyiron (Sep 14, 2010)

There are numerous low dose trials with Nandrolone that provide joint relief, increases in bone density and even tendon healing. 200mg Deca weekly is plenty. Some trials were lower.

I would stack at least double the Testosterone so 400mg T per week as well.


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## JCBourne (Sep 14, 2010)

Can anyone point in to a thread I can refer to for dosing? A lot of the ones I pull up end up being just for muscle gain and not a sole purpose for this kind of trial.


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## heavyiron (Sep 14, 2010)

*Collagen synthesis in postmenopausal women during therapy with anabolic steroid or female sex hormones.*

*Hassager C*, *Jensen LT*, *Pødenphant J*, *Riis BJ*, *Christiansen C*.

Department of Clinical Chemistry, Glostrup Hospital, University of Copenhagen, Denmark.

The effect of anabolic steroid therapy and estrogen-progestogen substitution therapy on serum concentration of procollagen type III aminoterminal peptide (PIIINP), a measure of collagen synthesis, in postmenopausal women was studied in two double-blind studies: (1) 39 women allocated to treatment with either 50 mg nandrolone decanoate as an intramuscular depot or placebo injections every third week for 1 year, and (2) 40 women allocated to receive either 2 mg 17 beta-estradiol plus 1 mg norethisterone acetate daily or placebo tablets for 1 year. Serum PIIINP was measured every 3 months during the study. Anabolic steroid therapy resulted in a more than 50% increase (P less than .001) in serum PIIINP at 3 months, which thereafter decayed but remained significantly increased throughout the study period. Serum PIIINP showed the same pattern during estrogen-progestogen therapy, but to a lesser degree. We conclude that anabolic steroids stimulate type III collagen synthesis in postmenopausal women, while estrogen-progestogen therapy may have such an effect, but only to a lesser degree.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...?dopt=Abstract


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## heavyiron (Sep 14, 2010)

*Nandrolone decanoate for men with osteoporosis.*

*Hamdy RC*, *Moore SW*, *Whalen KE*, *Landy C*.
James H. Quillen College of Medicine, East Tennessee State University, Johnson City, TN USA.

To compare the efficacy and safety of nandrolone decanoate and calcium (NDC) with those of calcium alone (CAL) in men with idiopathic osteoporosis, a 12-month, randomized, prospective, controlled study, was performed in an outpatient clinic. Twenty-one men with idiopathic osteoporosis (as determined by radiological and dual energy x-ray absorptiometry findings) were randomly allocated to either 50 mg nandrolone decanoate intramuscularly (im) weekly and 1,000 mg oral calcium carbonate daily (NDC group) or to 1,000 mg oral calcium carbonate daily (CAL group). Bone densitometry (total body, left femur, and lumbar spine), serum, and urine biochemical parameters were measured at 3-month intervals. In the NDC group, bone mineral density initially increased, reached a plateau, and then decreased to near baseline levels at 12 months. Increases in lean muscle mass mirrored these changes. Free and total testosterone significantly decreased. Hemoglobin increased in all patients in this group. Patients in the CAL group exhibited no significant change in either total body or bone mineral density or biochemical parameters. Thus, nandrolone decanoate, 50 mg im weekly, transiently increases the bone mass of men with idiopathic osteoporosis in this preliminary study. Careful monitoring is necessary.
PMID: 10099043 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10099043


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## heavyiron (Sep 14, 2010)

*Nandrolone Decanoate and Load Increase Remodeling and Strength in Human Supraspinatus Bioartificial Tendons *



Ioannis K. Triantafillopoulos, MD*,, Albert J. Banes, PhD,,, Karl F. Bowman, Jr||, Melissa Maloney, MS¶, William E. Garrett, Jr, MD, PhD# and Spero G. Karas, MD*,,** 



From * the Shoulder and Elbow Service, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, North Carolina, Department of Orthopaedics, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, North Carolina, Flexcell International Corporation, Hillsborough, North Carolina, the Department of Biomedical Engineering, the || School of Medicine, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, North Carolina, ¶ Flexcell International Corporation, Hillsborough, North Carolina, and the # Department of Orthopaedics, Duke University, Durham, North Carolina 

** Address correspondence to Spero G. Karas, MD, Chief, Shoulder and Elbow Service, University of North Carolina, Department of Orthopaedics, CB#7055, Chapel Hill, NC 27599-7055 (e-mail: Spero_Karas@med.unc.edu ). 



Background: To date, no studies document the effect of anabolic steroids on rotator cuff tendons. 

Study Design: Controlled laboratory study. 

Hypothesis: Anabolic steroids enhance remodeling and improve the biomechanical properties of bioartificially engineered human supraspinatus tendons. 

Methods: Bioartificial tendons were treated with either nandrolone decanoate (nonload, steroid, n = 18), loading (load, nonsteroid, n = 18), or both (load, steroid, n = 18). A control group received no treatment (nonload, nonsteroid [NLNS], n = 18). Bioartificial tendons??? remodeling was assessed by daily scanning, cytoskeletal organization by staining, matrix metalloproteinase???3 levels by ELISA assay, and biomechanical properties by load-to-failure testing. 

Results: The load, steroid group showed the greatest remodeling and the best organized actin cytoskeleton. Matrix metallo-proteinase???3 levels in the load, steroid group were greater than those of the nonload, nonsteroid group (P < .05). Ultimate stress and ultimate strain in the load, steroid group were greater than those of the nonload, nonsteroid and nonload, steroid groups (P < .05). The strain energy density in the load, steroid group was greater when compared to other groups (P < .05). 

Conclusions: Nandrolone decanoate and load acted synergistically to increase matrix remodeling and biomechanical properties of bioartificial tendons. Clinical Relevance: Data suggest anabolic steroids may enhance production of bioartificial tendons and rotator cuff tendon healing in vitro. More research is necessary before such clinical use is recommended. 



http://ajs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/32/4/934



http://www.paktribune.com/news/print.php?id=183128


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## heavyiron (Sep 14, 2010)

*Nandrolone decanoate: pharmacological properties and therapeutic use in osteoporosis.*

Geusens P.
Arthritis and Metabolic Bone Disease Research Unit, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Pellenberg, Belgium.
*Abstract*

The therapeutic profile on bone of nandrolone decanoate is that of inhibitor of bone resorption with temporary increase in bone formation, followed by an absence of suppression of bone formation, indicating uncoupling of bone resorption and formation. This results is an increase in bone mineral content at the proximal and distal radius, and in some patients at the lumbar spine. Furthermore, *nandrolone decanoate increases calcium balance and muscle mass, diminishes vertebral pain and increases the mobility of the spine.* Virilization occurred in around 50% of the patients (mainly hoarseness and/or hirsutism), and 9% of the patients dropped out because of this reason. A dose of 50 mg every 3 to 4 weeks is indicated in the treatment of osteoporosis in women, especially when they have low muscle mass, associated debilitating disease, and in patients with corticosteroid induced osteoporosis. It should only be prescribed after the age of 65 to 75 years to minimize the occurrence of clinical adverse effects and to increase its tolerability, which is higher in this group. Although some effects are reported on fracture rate, insufficient prospective data are available.


PMID: 8846659 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## heavyiron (Sep 14, 2010)

*Anabolic Edge*
By Jose Antonio, PhD

*In Praise of Nandrolone*


Nandrolone, which is fondly referred to as ???Deca??? (Deca-Durabolin), has the chemical name 17b-hydroxy-19-nor-4-andro-sten-3-one and is an anabolic steroid (a muscle-building chemical) that???s present naturally in very tiny quantities in the human body. It???s very similar in structure to the male hormone testosterone and has many of the same effects in terms of increasing muscle mass, without some of the more unwanted side effects such as increased body hair or aggressive behavior (http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/nandrolone/nandh.htm).


According to an article published in _Newsweek International_, by Jerry Adler (April 11 issue), ???Anabolic steroids are inherently dangerous, no matter what else the pills may contain.??? Now anyone with half a brain would know there are few things that are ???inherently dangerous??? or ???inherently safe??? in life. Androgens (i.e., anabolic steroids) don???t fall into either class, if the truth be told. But like ALL behaviors, there???s a risk-benefit tradeoff one must consider. For instance, drinking water is certainly ???safe??? by any measure of common sense. However, if you drink too much water during a prolonged endurance race under hot conditions, you may suffer from the effects of hyponatremia (sodium levels in your blood become disastrously low) and in very, very rare instances, you can die. Certainly, no one in their right mind would suggest a Congressional hearing is in order. Oh my, what about the kids!? 



As such, upon further analysis, reasonable minds can come to only one conclusion about nandrolone and the conclusion is that when nandrolone is used at a moderate dose and treatment duration, it???s anabolic with little to no side effects! It???s definitely not inherently dangerous.


For instance, the effectiveness of a biweekly regimen of 150 milligrams nandrolone with placebo in HIV-infected men with mild to moderate weight loss was compared to its effects against a Food and Drug Administration-approved regimen of recombinant human (rh)GH. In this placebo-controlled, randomized, 12-week trial, placebo and nandrolone (150 milligrams intramuscularly biweekly) were administered double blind and rhGH (six milligrams subcutaneously daily) was administered in an open-label manner. Participants were HIV-infected men with five to 15 percent weight loss over six months and on stable antiretroviral therapy for more than 12 weeks.


Nandrolone administration was associated with a greater increase in lean body mass (LBM) by dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry scan than placebo; however, the change in LBMs with nandrolone was not significantly different from rhGH. Interestingly, rhGH administration was associated with greater loss of whole body fat mass and higher frequency of drug-related adverse effects and treatment discontinuations than nandrolone and placebo and a greater increase in extracellular water than nandrolone. Nandrolone treatment was associated with greater improvements in perception of health than rhGH and sexual function than placebo. Researchers concluded that ???nandrolone is superior to placebo and not significantly different from a Food and Drug Administration-approved regimen of rhGH in improving lean body mass in HIV-infected men with mild to moderate weight loss.???2 However, the adverse effects were less with the nandrolone. Similar results for nandrolone decanoate therapy were found in women. According to these investigators, nandrolone ???may prove to be generally safe and beneficial in reversing weight loss and lean tissue loss in women with HIV infection and other chronic catabolic diseases.???3


In another clinical trial, the effects of nandrolone decanoate (ND) were assessed after a two-year treatment period. Yes, you read it right, two friggin??? years!! Sixty-five osteoporotic women older than 70 years were studied. Thirty-two patients received injections of 50 milligrams ND and 33 received placebos every three weeks. All patients received 500 milligrams calcium tablets daily. What did scientists find? Compared to baseline, ND increased the bone mineral density (BMD) of the lumbar spine (3.4 percent and 3.7 percent) and femoral neck (4.1 percent and 4.7 percent) after one and two years, respectively. ND significantly reduced the incidence of new vertebral fractures (21 percent vs. 43 percent in the placebo group; p < .05). ND showed a significant statistical increase in lean body mass after the first (6.2 percent) and second years (11.9 percent). In addition, a two-year treatment with ND significantly increased hemoglobin levels compared to baseline (14.3 percent) and placebo. The science nerds concluded, ???ND increased BMD, hemoglobin levels and muscle mass and reduced the vertebral fracture rate of elderly osteoporotic women.???4 Wait, did you read that? In OLDER women who were osteoporotic, nandrolone helps improve muscle mass and bone mineral density. It also reduces the risk of fractures. No ???roid rage, nobody committing suicide, nobody throwing 45-pound plates in the gym. You mean this stuff can actually be beneficial and safe? Egads!


Even low doses work in bodybuilders. Using a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled design, 16 experienced male bodybuilders (ages: 19-44 years) received either ND (200 milligrams per week, intramuscularly) or placebo for eight weeks. ND administration resulted in significant increments of body mass (+2.2 kilograms), fat-free mass (FFM: +2.6 kilograms) and total body water (+1.4 kilograms).5


What about something to help improve recovery of connective tissue? Well indeed nandrolone does the trick! ???Data suggest anabolic steroids may enhance production of bioartificial tendons and rotator cuff tendon healing in vitro.???6


Nandrolone even helps patients on dialysis. Medical records of chronic hemodialysis patients receiving nandrolone decanoate for greater than 30 days were reviewed. They discovered nandrolone significantly improved markers of nutritional status in hemodialysis patients. They also believe this therapy may enhance the hematopoietic or red blood cell-enhancing effects of EPO.7 



So in summary, here???s what we can reasonably say about nandrolone:
Nandrolone administration in moderate doses (no more than 200 milligrams per week) can increase muscle mass, increase fat-free mass and improve the function of patients with HIV, patients with low bone mineral density and patients undergoing dialysis. In addition, nandrolone can be an effective tool in promoting connective tissue healing.
That???s what the science says!
Now what they print in newspapers may be different, for the sole reason that journalists are either too ignorant or too lazy to actually read the literature.

*References*



http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/nandrolone/nandh.htm
Storer TW, Woodhouse LJ, Sattler F, et al. A randomized, placebo-controlled trial of nandrolone decanoate in human immunodeficiency virus-infected men with mild to moderate weight loss with recombinant human growth hormone as active reference treatment. _J Clin Endocrinol Metab,_ Aug 2005;90(8):4474-4482.
Mulligan K, Zackin R, Clark RA, et al. Effect of nandrolone decanoate therapy on weight and lean body mass in HIV-infected women with weight loss: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, multicenter trial. _Arch Intern Med,_ Mar 14 2005;165(5):578-585.
Frisoli A, Jr., Chaves PH, Pinheiro MM, Szejnfeld VL. The effect of nandrolone decanoate on bone mineral density, muscle mass and hemoglobin levels in elderly women with osteoporosis: a double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial. _J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci,_ May 2005;60(5):648-653.
van Marken Lichtenbelt WD, Hartgens F, Vollaard NB, Ebbing S, Kuipers H. Bodybuilders' body composition: effect of nandrolone decanoate. _Med Sci Sports Exerc,_ Mar 2004;36(3):484-489.
Triantafillopoulos IK, Banes AJ, Bowman KF, Jr., Maloney M, Garrett WE, Jr., Karas SG. Nandrolone decanoate and load increase remodeling and strength in human supraspinatus bioartificial tendons. _Am J Sports Med,_ Jun 2004;32(4):934-943.
Barton Pai A, Chretien C, Lau AH. The effects of nandrolone decanoate on nutritional parameters in hemodialysis patients. _Clin Nephrol,_ Jul 2002;58(1):38-46.


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## JCBourne (Sep 14, 2010)

Great info, but I didn't find a dose for my purpose although it looks like there is some hope.

Would 300mg a week be good, split into a M/T split? How about the test?


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## 2tomlinson (Sep 15, 2010)

GymRat707 said:


> Great info, but I didn't find a dose for my purpose although it looks like there is some hope.
> 
> Would 300mg a week be good, split into a M/T split? How about the test?



GymRat, I repped you for the question because chronic back pain brought me, in part, to this forum.  My HRT doctor put me on 200 mg Testosterone C/100 mg Nandrolone weekly.  That, plus doing the Versaclimber machine six to seven days a week, made a huge change.  I am now doing 400 mg. Test 250 mg of Deca weekly and have zero back pain for the first time in literally decades.  Deca works.  Also, if you're really serious about attacking back pain, find or buy a Versaclimber (the cross-crawl adjustable model) and use it several days a week.  The machine is magic when it comes to stretching and strengthening core muscle with zero impact, plus it is a cardio ass kicker.  The experts here will tell you you must do test with deca or your tallywhacker will dive south. Mixed, though, libido is through the roof; woodies plentiful.


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## heavyiron (Sep 15, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> There are numerous low dose trials with Nandrolone that provide joint relief, increases in bone density and even tendon healing. 200mg Deca weekly is plenty. Some trials were lower.
> 
> I would stack at least double the Testosterone so 400mg T per week as well.


 


GymRat707 said:


> Great info, but I didn't find a dose for my purpose although it looks like there is some hope.
> 
> Would 300mg a week be good, split into a M/T split? How about the test?


 
See my previous post


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## JCBourne (Sep 15, 2010)

2tomlinson said:


> GymRat, I repped you for the question because chronic back pain brought me, in part, to this forum.  My HRT doctor put me on 200 mg Testosterone C/100 mg Nandrolone weekly.  That, plus doing the Versaclimber machine six to seven days a week, made a huge change.  I am now doing 400 mg. Test 250 mg of Deca weekly and have zero back pain for the first time in literally decades.  Deca works.  Also, if you're really serious about attacking back pain, find or buy a Versaclimber (the cross-crawl adjustable model) and use it several days a week.  The machine is magic when it comes to stretching and strengthening core muscle with zero impact, plus it is a cardio ass kicker.  The experts here will tell you you must do test with deca or your tallywhacker will dive south. Mixed, though, libido is through the roof; woodies plentiful.



You give me much hope bro.  Are you on the deca year round?


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## JCBourne (Sep 15, 2010)

Gotcha Heavyiron thanks. Totally didn't see your post must have been caught up in other stuff.

I'll run the test e @ 400mg a week (split into 200mg dosing)
Also run deca @ 200mg a week, Pinned Monday
10 weeks enough, or should I bit longer?
HCG on cycle?


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## 2tomlinson (Sep 15, 2010)

GymRat707 said:


> You give me much hope bro.  How long are you cycling this?



For the rest of my life, I gather.  And very much hope so.  The experts here will have better-based insights, but cycling on and off, according to my MD, isn't something a guy my age (over 50) has to worry about much.  He may drop me back to 200 Test, 100 Deca EW, but I'm very happy for now.  Have a look at the Versaclimber, and that's no shit.  I have no financial involvement what-so-ever; bought my first one used, in fact.  Ellipticals, treadmills only made the pain worse.


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## heavyiron (Sep 16, 2010)

GymRat707 said:


> Gotcha Heavyiron thanks. Totally didn't see your post must have been caught up in other stuff.
> 
> I'll run the test e @ 400mg a week (split into 200mg dosing)
> Also run deca @ 200mg a week, Pinned Monday
> ...


 I usually get joint relief within 3 weeks of Deca use. 10 weeks is fine.


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## MDR (Sep 16, 2010)

Love me my Deca.  Beats the hell out of painkillers.


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## 2tomlinson (Sep 16, 2010)

MDR said:


> Love me my Deca.  Beats the hell out of painkillers.



No shit, and that is one of the saddest of ironies regarding AAS laws.  Prior to discovering a doctor who had the balls to write a script for Satanic drugs such as testosterone and nandrolone, my by-the-book doctor had me on high doses of oxycodone for back pain, and then, because I was desperate for relief, wrote a script for two months worth fentanyl patches which is among the scariest, most dangerous and addictive drug out there.  The fucking withdrawal pains were even worse than the back pain -- and anyone who has suffered debilitating back pain knows it's the serious bowels of hell.  If I didn't feel so great now, I would look back and be seriously pissed-off at these idiotic laws, and at certain ill-informed, cowardly MDs.  It's our health, our bodies, our lives -- who the fuck are they to decide what is best for a man or woman over 21?


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## MDR (Sep 16, 2010)

2tomlinson said:


> No shit, and that is one of the saddest of ironies regarding AAS laws.  Prior to discovering a doctor who had the balls to write a script for Satanic drugs such as testosterone and nandrolone, my by-the-book doctor had me on high doses of oxycodone for back pain, and then, because I was desperate for relief, wrote a script for two months worth fentanyl patches which is among the scariest, most dangerous and addictive drug out there.  The fucking withdrawal pains were even worse than the back pain -- and anyone who has suffered debilitating back pain knows it's the serious bowels of hell.  If I didn't feel so great now, I would look back and be seriously pissed-off at these idiotic laws, and at certain ill-informed, cowardly MDs.  It's our health, our bodies, our lives -- who the fuck are they to decide what is best for a man or woman over 21?



Holy crap! Oxy then Fentanyl.  Probably better off smoking heroin.  Nasty drugs.


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## 2tomlinson (Sep 16, 2010)

MDR said:


> Holy crap! Oxy then Fentanyl.  Probably better off smoking heroin.  Nasty drugs.



I agree but completely legal, commonly prescribed based entirely on the MD's subjective judgment -- unlike demon steroids which are prescribed only within strict blood-work guidelines created by AMA and the Feds.


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