# The Romney Package



## Gregzs (Aug 13, 2012)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/13/o...?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120813

[h=1]The Romney Package[/h][h=6]By BILL KELLER[/h]BRACE yourself for weeks of chatter about Mitt Romney?s running mate. Vice presidents matter, as we have been spookily reminded by the recent re-emergence of Dick Cheney on our TV screens. And Paul Ryan matters more than most. (See below.)        

But these days you don?t just elect a ticket of two; you elect a whole package. Presidents come with a cast of advisers, think tanks, lobbyists, legislators, donors and watchdogs. Some in the entourage end up in key jobs; others operate as a kind of shadow cabinet, vetting choices and enforcing doctrine.        

This is especially true of Republicans, who have spent decades building a disciplined conservative infrastructure that recruits talent, culls dissenters and lays down the law. Compared with Democrats, who are scattered left and center, a Republican administration is more than ever a conservative turnkey project.        

As governor of Massachusetts, Romney gathered a team of technocrats, centrist Republicans, even some Democrats. ?He sought competence, experience and creativity and gave less weight to politics or ideology,? recalled Scott Helman, a veteran Romney-watcher for The Boston Globe. ?But that was then,? he added. Yes, that was a different time, a different place, a different Romney.        

It?s possible President Romney would prefer to convene an administration of deal-cutters and problem-solvers. The trusted aides expected to help him organize the West Wing ? former Senator Jim Talent of Missouri; Mike Leavitt, former governor of Utah; former Bain Capital partner Bob White; and Beth Myers, who was Romney?s chief of staff in Massachusetts ? are more managers than firebrands.        

The question is whether anything short of hyperpartisanship is possible for a Republican leader in today?s Washington. At the national level, moderate Republicans are scarce and endangered. The policy factories, Congressional stalwarts and interest groups Romney will need to staff a government have been ideologically purified and politically schooled, and are mostly conservatives of the uncompromising kind. President Romney will be as much a captive of this Republican Washington as its leader. Ask John Boehner.        

What follows is a sampler of what you get with a President Romney, some of them his choices, some thrust upon him. The primary campaign pulled Romney sharply to the right. Here are some of the forces that are likely to keep him there.        

*THE APOSTLE OF MARKETS * Ryan would have been a powerful voice in a Romney administration even if he had not been chosen for the sidekick role ? the younger, quicker, more conviction-filled half of the ticket. His manifesto for lower tax rates and severe cuts in nonmilitary spending has become his party?s master plan, a brutal alternative to the recommendations of the bipartisan Simpson-Bowles fiscal reform commission (which Ryan participated in, then voted against because it included tax hikes). Ryan gets demonized as a guy who wants to privatize the safety net, and not without reason. President Obama decried Ryan?s plan for Medicare vouchers as ?social Darwinism?; even Newt Gingrich called it ?right-wing social engineering.? Ryan has tempered some of the more radical aspects of his plan, and the other day he told me he regards it as the basis of a bipartisan ?adult conversation,? not the last word. (Ryan is, like Obama, the kind of self-confident politician who will call a critical columnist if he sees a scrap of common ground.) ?We have consensus within both parties and in the country that health security is a mission of the federal government,? he said in a phone call from Wisconsin. But make no mistake, Ryan embodies a philosophy that most public needs ? even such sensitive needs as health care and retirement security ? are better served with a lot less government and a lot more trust in the dubious mercies of the marketplace.        

*THE HAWK* On foreign policy, Romney has so far largely bypassed his party?s mainstream in favor of advisers with a decidedly neoconservative bent ? confrontational, unilateral, with a missionary urge to spread American-style democracy and a particular affinity for Israel?s hard-liners. Romney?s more conventional insiders call it the ?Bolton faction,? for John Bolton, among the most hawkish of George W. Bush?s ?freedom agenda? interventionists. Bolton is now on the Romney team, but Dan Senor is the one who has Romney?s ear. At 40, he is next-gen Bolton, smoother, TV-savvy, post-cold war in age but cold war in spirit. (He co-founded a think tank with the Soviet-era neocon William Kristol.) Senor helped choreograph Romney?s recent foreign debut, in which the candidate needlessly offended the British and the Palestinians. You might think that gaffe-a-thon would be a career setback, but Senor has survived bigger debacles. He was the spin-doctor for L. Paul Bremer, who, as the American proconsul of post-conquest Iraq, presided over the most highhanded and blundering stage of the occupation.        

*THE ORIGINALIST * Appointing 85-year-old Robert Bork as co-chairman of his Justice Advisory Committee sent a clear message to the right: The Supreme Court will be all yours. Bork is the original originalist, champion of the doctrine that says the Constitution does not adapt to changes in society, spiritual father of Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas. A Reagan Supreme Court nominee, he was attacked (with justification) as a radical and denied confirmation; to conservatives he is a martyr and an oracle. Temperamentally, Romney might be tempted to nominate someone in the slightly less doctrinaire mold of Chief Justice John Roberts Jr. But to the hard core, Roberts is tarnished by his ruling in support of Obama?s health care plan. As my friend the expert court-watcher Linda Greenhouse puts it, ?I think we can assume without fear of being tendentious that Romney would go as far to the right as the base wants and the Senate would permit.?        

*THE TRICKLE-DOWN ECONOMIST* R. Glenn Hubbard, who has been a top Romney adviser since the 2008 campaign, is a reputable economist, dean of Columbia Business School. He is not one of those abolish-the-Fed, tax-cuts-pay-for-themselves charlatans who seem to have captured the minds of so many Republicans. But he has increasingly traded in his economic science for partisan politics. As chairman of George W. Bush?s Council of Economic Advisers, Hubbard rationalized huge tax cuts (the promised bonanza of jobs failed to materialize) and deregulation (widely blamed for contributing to the housing and banking mess). Now he lends an expert gloss to the claim that Romney?s sketchy economic plan will create 12 million jobs ? a claim I doubt would pass muster in a first-year Econ class at Columbia.        

*THE MOGUL CHORUS* The traditional euphemism in Washington is that money doesn?t buy influence; it just buys access. Whatever you call it, Romney?s mega-donors, who have their individual pet issues and a shared loathing of regulations of any kind, will not be settling for sleepovers in the Lincoln Bedroom. Sheldon Adelson (casinos and Israel), Charles and David Koch (petroleum and libertarian politics) and Bob Perry (home builder and bankroller of the Swift Boat slander) will not be taking cabinet jobs. But don?t expect to see a secretary of commerce or energy or a director of the Environmental Protection Agency (if any of those positions still exist) or any other key regulator who does not pass muster with Romney?s big investors, or does not take their phone calls.        

*THE TEAM OF RIVALS* Just as Obama recruited Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden into his administration, a victorious Romney would reach out to Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum, Herman Cain ... just kidding! Santorum does have a speaking slot at the convention, and he needs a job (secretary of health and human services would be a horrifying sop to social conservatives), but the Republican also-rans are most likely to play the role of visible and ornery watchdogs. I expect their only personal contact with President Romney would be in the green room at Fox News.


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## secdrl (Aug 13, 2012)

Romney/Ryan 2012  

Restore America Now

America's Comeback Team


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## Luxx (Aug 13, 2012)

secdrl said:
			
		

> Romney/Ryan 2012
> 
> Restore America Now
> 
> America's Comeback Team



Do you really feel they will restore America?Obummer said the same shit and he's done nothing! I will not vote for obummer but I'm torn on Romney.


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## IronAddict (Aug 13, 2012)

Yeah, their a "package" alright!


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

if they win then how are we going to get free money


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

if they win i'm going to go into business selling horseshit cuz obviously people buy it.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> if they win i'm going to go into business selling horseshit cuz obviously people buy it.




this is why we need an honest and transparent administration that keeps its promises like the one we have now


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## Curt James (Aug 13, 2012)

Gregzs said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/13/o...?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120813
> 
> *The Romney Package *(snip)


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## secdrl (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> if they win i'm going to go into business selling horseshit cuz obviously people buy it.



What were you selling back in 2008, then?


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## secdrl (Aug 13, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> this is why we need an honest and transparent administration that keeps its promises like the one we have now


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## secdrl (Aug 13, 2012)

Luxx said:


> Do you really feel they will restore America?Obummer said the same shit and he's done nothing! I will not vote for obummer but I'm torn on Romney.




Quote from the Reagan years: "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?"

Whatever your answer, you'll know who to vote for.


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## Curt James (Aug 13, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> this is why we need an honest and transparent administration that keeps its promises like the one we have now


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

they all suck. you have to try and figure out who sucks the least which frankly, fucking sucks.


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

I cannot imagine a world in which a person is elected President when  Googling his name leads one to this definition: ?To defecate in terror.?  This is especially true since this is not a random act of cruelty ? it  is a reference to a practically incomprehensible disregard for the life  of another, committed by Mitt Romney. This very public vandalism of Romney?s name is a constant reminder that Romney  actually strapped a cage, containing his dog, to the roof of his car  and drove to Canada, only to be stopped by his son noticing the fecal  matter running down the window of the car when the dog defecated in  terror.


1.  Romney  *791* up, *111* down  (verb) to defecate in terror

This  colloquialism originates in the infamous and widely publicized 1983  incident where Mitt Romney strapped his Irish setter, Seamus, to the  roof of his car whilst driving to Canada, causing the terrified dog to  defecate.
"The door of the cab literally GRAZED my knee as it whizzed by. I nearly Romneyed!"

 


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

i'm going to Romney if this religious lunatic gets elected. 

*What Does Presidential Candidate Mitt Romney    Really Believe?* 

*He believes that Jesus Christ is Satan's             brother.*
*He believes that God lives near a planet             called "Kolob."*
*He believes in baptizing dead people.*
*He believes that Jesus is married to a goddess             wife.*
*He believes that The Garden of Eden was             in Missouri.*
*He believes that it was impossible for             Negroes to go to Heaven before 1978. *
*He believes that Jesus has children from             his wife or wives.*
*He believes that he is going to become a             god.*
*He believes he will own his own personal             planet after he dies.*
*He believes the real Christian God is not eternal but rather that             He was once a man on some other planet besides Earth!*
*He believes he needs to wear magical             underwear created by Mormons and he is never to take it off unless             he is bathing.*
*He believes it is a sin to drink anything             containing caffeine. And that even includes True American? drinks             like Coca-Cola!*
*He believes children between the ages of             18-21 should wear name badges, ride bicycles and always smile.*


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

[h=3]Did You Know Mitt Romney is Listed on Two National Animal Cruelty Registries?[/h]   


Mitt Romney?s admission that he transported his pet strapped on the roof of his station wagon for a 12-hour drive has spawned countless late night jokes. Romney himself tries to laugh it off, but we?ve learned new information that is no laughing matter.


Abusing animals has consequences ? consequences not even Mitt Romney can avoid. In the wake of his campaign?s 2007 revelation of the ?dog-on-roof story,? Mitt Romney?s name was listed by two national animal cruelty registries used to track animal abuse offenders.


The first, Pet-Abuse.com, is based in Southfields, NY and is connected to the national Animal Abuse Registry Database Administration System (AARDAS). According to its website, the registry provides ?a database enabling animal adoption agencies to research potential adopters for possible prior abuse history within and across state and national lines."  


Mitt Romney?s listing in the Pet-Abuse.com registry is for ?neglect/abandonment? and can be found here: http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/11676/MA/US/ 


The second registry listing Romney is Inhumane.org , a New Hampshire organization that is part of the New Hampshire Governor's Task Force for the Humane Treatment of Animals. It bills itself as "a resource for any organization that deals with animal adoptions.?


Mitt Romney?s listing in the Inhumane.org registry can be found here: http://www.inhumane.org/data/MRomney.htm


Both registries are maintained so that animal welfare organizations, Humane Law Enforcement officials, animal shelters, rescue operations, and breeders can share information about animal abuse offenders and conduct background checks before allowing people to adopt or purchase a pet. 


Dogs Against Romney asks: Should the United States of America have a president who isn?t even qualified to adopt a pet?


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

how does any of what you posted (LW) affect his policy as president? I know it's difficult, but let's stay focused on the issues


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

it matters if he is a decent human being or not. he is not.


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## Call of Ktulu (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> it matters if he is a decent human being or not. he is not.


Weather Underground?


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

his own dog couldn't trust him and i'm not about to. he also couldn't simply contain the dog and it ran away ending up at the pound *multiple* times. it doesn't take much smarts to keep your dog where it should be. in a sense it's like Mitt can't tie his own fucking shoes but that's otay??? he can't even manage responsible pet ownership but that's otay? it says a LOT about a man's character how he takes care of his pets. maybe Vicks will vote for him.


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## Call of Ktulu (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> his own dog couldn't trust him and i'm not about to. he also couldn't simply contain the dog and it ran away ending up at the pound *multiple* times. it doesn't take much smarts to keep your dog where it should be. in a sense it's like Mitt can't tie his own fucking shoes but that's otay??? he can't even manage responsible pet ownership but that's otay? it says a LOT about a man's character how he takes care of his pets. maybe Vicks will vote for him.



I don't trust any politician but I don't want another of the last 4 years.


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

if a man says... or his actions say, hello i am an irresponsible, heartless, cult following fuckwad,  i don't really CARE what else he has to say. he has shitty character, crazy ideas, and is not trustworthy.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> it matters if he is a decent human being or not. he is not.




i was suspecting you would say something like that  


great argument


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

Call of Ktulu said:


> I don't trust any politician but I don't want another of the last 4 years.



no one does but the devil you know is sometimes not as bad as the one you don't. Romney is a bad mistake.


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## Call of Ktulu (Aug 13, 2012)

Who are you voting for LW?


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> i was suspecting you would say something like that
> 
> 
> great argument



wanna buy some magic underwear? they might come handy if he wins n the people that voted for him start shitting themselves in terror.


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

myself.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> wanna buy some magic underwear? they might come handy if he wins n the people that voted for him start shitting themselves in terror.




mfw liberals care about a dog being scared and shitting
mfw liberals dont care about mutilation and disposal of unborn infants
mfw a dog's feelings > human life


looks like a red herring, but it's not


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## hypo_glycemic (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> no one does but the devil you know is sometimes not as bad as the one you don't. Romney is a bad mistake.



this


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

abortion sucks but it's a necessary evil unless you want another umpteen million kids sucking the welfare tit.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

hypo_glycemic said:


> meaningless cliche` followed by a claim that is not based on any substance whatsoever




fixed


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## hypo_glycemic (Aug 13, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> fixed



How did I post this^^. Lol


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## hypo_glycemic (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> abortion sucks but it's a necessary evil unless you want another umpteen million kids sucking the welfare tit.



I think it's only feasible when there's a birth defect or a life threatening situation where the mothers health is in jeopardy..


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

good thing he doesn't stand a chance.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> abortion sucks but it's a necessary evil unless you want another umpteen million kids sucking the welfare tit.





a dog shitting cause it's scared sucks but cares? it's a fucking dog..



welfare is another astronomically huge problem that will only get worse under our current "president"



Edit: again, your "arguments" are completely devoid of any foundation or substance.. the content of your posts would lead one to believe that you lack the ability to think critically..


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

hypo_glycemic said:


> I think it's only feasible when there's a birth defect or a life threatening situation where the mothers health is in jeopardy..



in a perfect world that would be so but read child abuse stories all day tomorrow then tell me people that don't want kids should be forced to have them. read some of the horror stories about the even higher rates of abuse in foster care and orphanages. it's the lesser evil.


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> a dog shitting cause it's scared sucks but cares? it's a fucking dog..
> 
> 
> 
> welfare is another astronomically huge problem that will only get worse under our current "president"



you think some religious nut that thinks like Romney will protect a woman's right to make a choice? stop abortion and see what happens to the welfare roles. as soon as some teen gets knocked up she'll be on it and it won't end. it's not just a welfare check it's healthcare, school, daycare. think.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> good thing he doesn't stand a chance.




yeah he has a dog that defecates when frightened and he has bizarre religious beliefs..


he'd be the worst president ever


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> your "arguments" are completely devoid of any foundation or substance..



someone obviously said this to you at some point n it got wedged sideways in your ass.


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## hypo_glycemic (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> in a perfect world that would be so but read child abuse stories all day tomorrow then tell me people that don't want kids should be forced to have them. read some of the horror stories about the even higher rates of abuse in foster care and orphanages. it's the lesser evil.


It's not a case of forcing a unwanted child, there's other options. In 9 out of 10 times, that child will be adopted at birth and never enter the foster care system. As well, if you look at the Psychology of abuse, mothers who "want" a child, are as just as likely to abuse the child due to inherent abusive nature!!!


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> you think some religious nut that thinks like Romney will protect a woman's right to make a choice? stop abortion and see what happens to the welfare roles. as soon as some teen gets knocked up she'll be on it and it won't end. it's not just a welfare check it's healthcare, school, daycare. *think*.




oh the irony.. 

How about all the women keep their fucking whore legs shut if they aren't trying to have a kid?

or 

how about the employ one or ANY of the numerous walls of defence against conception (birth control, condoms, morning after pill etc)

I love how you liberals gloss over infanticide with something seemingly innocuous like "the right to make a choice"

i know the very idea of personal responsibility and accountability for one's own actions makes you liberals break out in hives.. but it's time to grow up and face the consequences

what's it like having your head up your ass?


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> someone obviously said this to you at some point n it got wedged sideways in your ass.



you continue to prove me right with every post you make


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## NVRBDR (Aug 13, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> this is why we need an honest and transparent administration that keeps its promises like the one we have now



oh fuck! Lol... I almost spit my drink all over my iPad


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

hypo_glycemic said:


> It's not a case of forcing a unwanted child, there's other options. In 9 out of 10 times, that child will be adopted at birth and never enter the foster care system. As well, if you look at the Psychology of abuse, mothers who "want" a child, are as just as likely to abuse the child due to inherent abusive nature!!!




don't bother liberals with facts.. they simply just... dont care


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> oh the irony..
> 
> How about all the women keep their fucking whore legs shut if they aren't trying to have a kid?
> 
> ...



do you still put your teeth under your pillow?


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## NVRBDR (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> if a man says... or his actions say, hello i am an irresponsible, heartless, cult following fuckwad,  i don't really CARE what else he has to say. he has shitty character, crazy ideas, and is not trustworthy.



Youre kidding right? You ever listened to rev Jeremiah wrights teachings Obama sat under for 25 years?, you need to you tube it if not. As for trustworthy, and character? Obama isn't leading anyone in that category for dam sure, his lies aren't broadcast as frequent as Romneys is all. Who has Crazy ideas?. Obama takes the Fricken cake! His admistration backs away form the main thing they're supposed to do! Protect the borders, not sue states that do it! Dont forget Obama care, that will add to our debt at 300 times what they first predicted. 

This is beating a dead horse, there are those who like BHO and those who see he is taking our freedoms faster than any other potus in American history


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> do you still put your teeth under your pillow?




You are aware that the president doesn't write the bills... right?  That's the job of congress.. and then the president signs them into law, and then the scotus decides if it's constitutional or not..

you are displaying a very vague and lacking understanding of how politics works.. it doesnt fucking matter what romney thinks about abortion, he can only turn into law the bills that congress writes.. 


as much as i disagree with you LW, it's nice having you around.. your positions are poorly constructed and vacant.. devoid of critical thinking.. you clearly dont put much thought into what you write, and you are swayed by vapid sensationalism instead of real concrete substance. It's entertaining


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## oufinny (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> it matters if he is a decent human being or not. he is not.



I respect you darling and love your tits even more but maybe you should read some of the BS that our current president has penned in his books.  He is no better, it just didn't involve a dog which somehow has you beyond pissed at him.  Picking people off a computer screen and hitting the proverbial kill button is no better, actually far worse, than putting a dog through that (at least he lived).


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

Jimmyusa said:


> Youre kidding right? You ever listened to rev Jeremiah's teachings Obama sat under for 25 years?, you need to you tube it if not. As for trustworthy, and character? Obama isn't leading anyone in that category for dam sure, his lies aren't broadcast as frequent as Romneys is all. Who has Crazy ideas?. Obama takes the Fricken cake! His admistration backs away form the main thing they're supposed to do! Protect the borders, not sue states that do it! Dont forget Obama care, that will add to our debt at 300 times what they first predicted.
> 
> This is beating a dead horse, there are those who like BHO and those who see he is taking our freedoms faster than any other potus in American history




mfw obama administration sues states for trying to uphold constitution.. 
mfw liberals agree with him..

fucking shit


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

hypo_glycemic said:


> It's not a case of forcing a unwanted child, there's other options. In 9 out of 10 times, that child will be adopted at birth and never enter the foster care system. As well, if you look at the Psychology of abuse, mothers who "want" a child, are as just as likely to abuse the child due to inherent abusive nature!!!



this is absolutely untrue. druggies will use a child to get welfare and some have them JUST for that reason. then use the kids to get meds like ritalin to use themselves or sell to buy their drug of choice. only aprox 10 percent of children waiting to be adopted in this country every year are. 

USA | Children's House International Adoptions  where are the families so desperately wanting a child for these kids?


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

whoever said that "universal suffrage was the worst thing to happen to the US" clearly had LW, and those who "think" like her in mind lmao..


LW, ill let your posts speak for you


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## oufinny (Aug 13, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> You are aware that the president doesn't write the bills... right?  That's the job of congress.. and then the president signs them into law, and then the scotus decides if it's constitutional or not..
> 
> you are displaying a very vague and lacking understanding of how politics works.. it doesnt fucking matter what romney thinks about abortion, he can only turn into law the bills that congress writes..
> 
> ...



I'm not one to hate on LittleWing but darling this is spot on.  You are picking without support, even LAM would feel the need to post some facts to support his stance.  You are allowed to believe as you will, if you try to dissuade others, realize many of us are quite learned so try to do so with facts not fairy tales as you alluded to earlier.


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## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

i never said i liked obama any better i just think some guy that really believes he's going to be a god is bad news. 

you guys are talking like there's actually a candidate you can trust to keep his word or not look after his own personal agenda or interests even if it fucks over the masses. there isn't.


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## hypo_glycemic (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> this is absolutely untrue. druggies will use a child to get welfare and some have them JUST for that reason. then use the kids to get meds like ritalin to use themselves or sell to buy their drug of choice. only aprox 10 percent of children waiting to be adopted in this country every year are.
> 
> USA | Children's House International Adoptions  where are the families so desperately wanting a child for these kids?



That's a whole different topic of child abuse. Abuse, neglect, extortion if you will? Who's to say that THAT child was unwanted? Again, ANY child could be neglected in such a way, regardless of the parents social economic status.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> i never said i liked obama any better *i just think some guy that really believes he's going to be a god is bad news.
> *
> you guys are talking like there's actually a candidate you can trust to keep his word or not look after his own personal agenda or interests even if it fucks over the masses. there isn't.




post reference to romney claiming he believes he will become a god.. your failure to follow through will only further prove that your viewpoints are based _solely_ on sensationalism.. and an inability to think for yourself, only parroting what the talking heads on msnbc tell you. Just because someone subscribes to a religion doesnt mean that they believe or abide by EVERY single aspect of its doctrine..


without a reference, you are effectively claiming that all muslims will commit jihad just because their doctrine tells them too. 

You really are mindless arent u..


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## oufinny (Aug 13, 2012)

I think the whole establishment is full of shit, the days of compromise and doing what's best for the country are long gone.  LW, Romney is a douche but so is Barry, they both are a choice of a douche or a turd sandwich.


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## NVRBDR (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> i never said i liked obama any better i just think some guy that really believes he's going to be a god is bad news.
> 
> you guys are talking like there's actually a candidate you can trust to keep his word or not look after his own personal agenda or interests even if it fucks over the masses. there isn't.



You are voting for him, logically you like him better. Since religion is another quality you seem to be unsure of with romney...? If you look/listen to obamas past 25 years of spiritual teaching you will be equally unimpressed with the anti white man, anti American, pro African message his reverend was teaching him. It is extremely disturbing, judge it for yourself.

For the record, I am not a Romney fan or a fan of his religion. However, I do believe  he will do a better job at NOT raping the American people of our freedoms and our liberties.


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## LAM (Aug 13, 2012)

Jimmyusa said:


> This is beating a dead horse, there are those who like BHO and those who see he is taking our freedoms faster than any other potus in American history



this is what tv has told you.  have you personally looked at the list of executive orders that have been signed since 1900? if not you have no idea what you are talking about.  because he is doing what every single POTUS before him has done.

and in regards to protecting the borders what have the last 3 republican POTUS done?  absolutely nothing except for Reagan who opened up the floodgates with the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act.  elites have always been for immigration it helps to push down wages and it's effects never ever effect the daily lives of them.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

Jimmyusa said:


> You are voting for him, logically you like him better. Since religion is another quality you seem to be unsure of with romney...? If you look/listen to obamas past 25 years of spiritual teaching you will be equally unimpressed with the anti white man, anti American, pro African message his reverend was teaching him. It is extremely disturbing, judge it for yourself.



they never mentioned that on msnbc or liberal blogs, she would have had no way of seeing it


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

i know how politics works i don't give a shit how it *does* i care how it *should* and so should everyone else. the big boys are going to fuck us all over tell us pretty lies etc etc. and so many will vote for some useless piece of shit they think isn't as bad as the last useless piece of shit. why aren't any of you "learned" enough to say yea, unfortunately, that's about it? cuz it is. it's ridiculous to see people standing up waving some canidate around thinking oh he's gonna change things. it's not about what the voters want. it's not about what we believe or what's right. it's about who's going to suck who's dick. hasn't been a single man worth voting into that office in a long fucking time and as long as you keep sucking some dick like Romney there won't be because we are just accepting the same old shit we always do. no matter who wins the average family is going to struggle to get by. life will be about just trying to keep your head above water because wages will stay as fucked as they are, taxes will stay as fucked as they are, education will stay as fucked as it is, and people will watch jersey shore and not really fight our freedoms disappearing etc etc

the real joke is anyone thinking this asshole is going to make a bit of difference.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

Jimmyusa said:


> You are voting for him, logically you like him better. Since religion is another quality you seem to be unsure of with romney...? If you look/listen to obamas past 25 years of spiritual teaching you will be equally unimpressed with the anti white man, anti American, pro African message his reverend was teaching him. It is extremely disturbing, judge it for yourself.



if you give me a dog turd and a dog turd i have to vote?


----------



## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> i know how politics works i don't give a shit how it *does* i care how it *should* and so should everyone else. the big boys are going to fuck us all over tell us pretty lies etc etc. and so many will vote for some useless piece of shit they think isn't as bad as the last useless piece of shit. why aren't any of you "learned" enough to say yea, unfortunately, that's about it? cuz it is. it's ridiculous to see people standing up waving some canidate around thinking oh he's gonna change things. it's not about what the voters want. it's not about what we believe or what's right. it's about who's going to suck who's dick. hasn't been a single man worth voting into that office in a long fucking time and as long as you keep sucking some dick like Romney there won't be because we are just accepting the same old shit we always do. no matter who wins the average family is going to struggle to get by. life will be about just trying to keep your head above water because wages will stay as fucked as they are, taxes will stay as fucked as they are, education will stay as fucked as it is, and people will watch jersey shore and not really fight our freedoms disappearing etc etc
> 
> the real joke is anyone thinking this asshole is going to make a bit of difference.





lmao wow.. are there multiple people using your account?


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> post reference to romney claiming he believes he will become a god.. your failure to follow through will only further prove that your viewpoints are based _solely_ on sensationalism.. and an inability to think for yourself, only parroting what the talking heads on msnbc tell you. Just because someone subscribes to a religion doesnt mean that they believe or abide by EVERY single aspect of its doctrine..
> 
> 
> without a reference, you are effectively claiming that all muslims will commit jihad just because their doctrine tells them too.
> ...



show me that he doesn't think so. it's the central doctrine of mormonism that a man can become a god. i think all you really care about is that he's not black.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> lmao wow.. are there multiple people using your account?




no, you just assumed because i don't like one candidate i support the other.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 13, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> lmao wow.. are there multiple people using your account?



ok. i want to lay back here and read all the wonderful changes Romney is going to make and how much better things will be if he wins. It's late, i'm sleepy, and i like fairy tales so you tell me ok...

make it good.


----------



## NVRBDR (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> if you give me a dog turd and a dog turd i have to vote?



Lol... Nope, you sure do not.


----------



## NVRBDR (Aug 13, 2012)

> and in regards to protecting the borders what have the last 3 republican POTUS done?



one thing they HAVE NOT done, They haven't backed suing another state for protecting their borders. I am sure you know protecting our borders is a primary function of the federal government


----------



## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> show me that he doesn't think so. it's the central doctrine of mormonism that a man can become a god. i think all you really care about is that he's not black.




wait.. so i am supposed to show you that _someone doesn't think something _because you made an outrageous claim and cannot support it?

are you fucking kidding me? 


i mean sure.. since you made the claim you bear the burden of proof, but since you are a liberal you just dont care about that.. and instead, i have to refute your ridiculous assumption in order to make it.... not a fact.

but i have to go _farther_, and prove the absence of a thought.. my lord LW i think you might have taken the cake with this one..


you have made it evident that your intellectual capacity and ability to think critically (or at all for that matter) is so far beneath mine, (and most others here) that it is no longer necessary (or even possible) to try and have a legitimate discussion with you


i sincerely hope you are easy on the eyes


----------



## Gregzs (Aug 13, 2012)

LAM said:


> this is what tv has told you.  have you personally looked at the list of executive orders that have been signed since 1900? if not you have no idea what you are talking about.  because he is doing what every single POTUS before him has done.
> 
> and in regards to protecting the borders what have the last 3 republican POTUS done?  absolutely nothing except for Reagan who opened up the floodgates with the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act.  elites have always been for immigration it helps to push down wages and it's effects never ever effect the daily lives of them.



^
In addition, I wonder why so many seem to think Romney would do that which is in the best interest of the populace in regard to the economy. I'm sure the former employees of KayBee Toys and all of the other companies Bain Capital took over do not think so:

Mitt Romney, American Parasite: A Look at Bain Capital - Houston - News - Hair Balls

This article is huge so I will just post the link: American Parasite - Page 1 - News - Houston - Houston Press


----------



## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

disclaimer:

dont take my ridiculing of LW's laughably idiotic and nonsensical ramblings and my general disdain for barack obama as support for mitt romney


----------



## secdrl (Aug 13, 2012)

Obama ATE a f****** dog and people are crying because Romney put the family dog in a rooftop kennel? Obama ATE a dog! That's mutha f***** cruel.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> disclaimer:
> 
> dont take my ridiculing of LW's laughably idiotic and nonsensical ramblings and my general disdain for barack obama as support for mitt romney



and don't take your insults to mean you have the slightest clue what you're talking about. 

you obviously haven't read much at all about the man if you don't know how rabidly he upheld church doctrine.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

Gregzs said:


> ^
> In addition, I wonder why so many seem to think Romney would do that which is in the best interest of the populace in regard to the economy. I'm sure the former employees of KayBee Toys and all of the other companies Bain Capital took over do not think so:
> 
> Mitt Romney, American Parasite: A Look at Bain Capital - Houston - News - Hair Balls
> ...



if you really read anything about Romney you very quickly understand the common man is not in his little bubble of concern.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

. . but the public Romney championed gay rights and constructed a public healthcare system. Of course, that was the _previous _public version. Romney 3.0 opposes gay marriage, abortion and the minimal initiation of national healthcare. It?s a puzzle. 

maybe you guys just love switch hitters


----------



## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> and don't take your insults to mean you have the slightest clue what you're talking about.
> 
> *you obviously haven't read much at all about the man if you don't know how rabidly he upheld church doctrine*.



do i dare ask you for a reference?


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

it's not hard to find. if you really has researched him at all you'd have read a shit ton of it. do your own research. i remember reading how he threatened a young mother with excommunication if she didn't give up her child. a divorced 23 year old capable, working mother studying to be a nurse who was already raising a 3 year old. told her she could do what the church thought was right or leave the church. single parents shouldn't raise kids you see. better to give them to strangers than love them and work your ass off to give them all you can. maybe you need to be a mom to get that but it's inhuman to tell a loving mother to relinquish her child because of what your fucking church thinks.

 telling a mother of 5 children i think it was, not to have an abortion her doctor said she needed because of a life threatening blood clot. that his concern was not for her but her unborn 2 month old child. i guess 5 kids with a dead mother would have been ok with him... i think his family man image is a carefully concocted crock of shit. people that work with him say he's the star and everyone else is a bit player, he doesn't even know their names. if you want to actually learn who he is you will read this stuff over and over again. 

he wants to be president, he will say anything. i like the dog story because it's a very raw unstaged glimpse at who and what he really is. character is what you do when you think no one is looking. it's not something anyone else said or wrote it's a real look at the man behind the politician bs. it was ok if his wife said stop i have to piss but his boys were told no stops till it was time to get gas. it wasn't just his dog's discomfort he ignored.


----------



## secdrl (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> . . but the public Romney championed gay rights and constructed a public healthcare system. Of course, that was the _previous _public version. Romney 3.0 opposes gay marriage, abortion and the minimal initiation of national healthcare. It?s a puzzle.
> 
> maybe you guys just love switch hitters



In regards to the healthcare, Romney did it WITHOUT raising taxes. Can't say the same for Barry. They took 700,000,000 from Medicaid to pay for his healthcare penalty, err...tax; and they wanna accuse Paul Ryan of "pushing seniors of the cliff?"


----------



## NVRBDR (Aug 14, 2012)

secdrl said:


> Obama ATE a f****** dog and people are crying because Romney put the family dog in a rooftop kennel? Obama ATE a dog! That's mutha f***** cruel.



What do you mean? He ate a dog??


----------



## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> it's not hard to find. if you really has researched him at all you'd have read a shit ton of it. do your own research. i remember reading how he threatened a young mother with excommunication if she didn't give up her child. a divorced 23 year old capable, working mother studying to be a nurse who was already raising a 3 year old. told her she could do what the church thought was right or leave the church. single parents shouldn't raise kids you see. better to give them to strangers than love them and work your ass off to give them all you can. maybe you need to be a mom to get that but it's inhuman to tell a loving mother to relinquish her child because of what your fucking church thinks.
> 
> telling a mother of 5 children i think it was, not to have an abortion her doctor said she needed because of a life threatening blood clot. that his concern was not for her but her unborn 2 month old child. i guess 5 kids with a dead mother would have been ok with him... i think his family man image is a carefully concocted crock of shit. people that work with him say he's the star and everyone else is a bit player, he doesn't even know their names. if you want to actually learn who he is you will read this stuff over and over again.
> 
> he wants to be president, he will say anything. i like the dog story because it's a very raw unstaged glimpse at who and what he really is. character is what you do when you think no one is looking. it's not something anyone else said or wrote it's a real look at the man behind the politician bs. it was ok if his wife said stop i have to piss but his boys were told no stops till it was time to get gas. it wasn't just his dog's discomfort he ignored.




no links.. u really dont care about not having any credibility ..


do u..?


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> no links.. u really dont care about not having any credibility ..
> 
> 
> do u..?



what fucking moron supports a candidate and hasn't even read up on him? you are not a baby i am not going to spoon feed you. read up on this guy like a grown man and you will see everything i have mentioned.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

Jimmyusa said:


> What do you mean? He ate a dog??



in his book he mentions being fed dog as a little boy in indonesia. hardly an adult man making a decision to eat it.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

secdrl said:


> In regards to the healthcare, Romney did it WITHOUT raising taxes. Can't say the same for Barry. They took 700,000,000 from Medicaid to pay for his healthcare penalty, err...tax; and they wanna accuse Paul Ryan of "pushing seniors of the cliff?"



i seriously hope you don't think Romney is a "won't raise taxes" guy



DeMoss claims Governor Romney *turned a $3 billion deficit into a nearly $1 billion surplus, without raising taxes. *But that statement is simply not true.*The reality is that Romney's tenure as Massachusetts governor was an economic disaster for the state. Governor Romney passed a host of new tax and fee increases, hitting  the corporate world hard and devastating job creation. *   As Peter  Nicholas, chairman of Boston Science Corporation, stated, *tax rates on many corporations almost doubled because of legislation supported by Romney.?  (1)*
 The Cato Institute reported that in his first year as Governor, Romney *?proposed $140 [million] in business tax hikes through the closing of ?loopholes? in the tax code.?* (2) As Nicholas explains, *?Romney?s  tax policies were not helpful for many small businesses?when Romney  took many IRS subchapter S businesses in Massachusetts and almost  doubled their tax rates, it was an important disincentive to investment,  growth and job creation.?* (3).   As Joseph Crosby of the Council on State Taxation stated, ?*Romney went further than any other governor in trying to wring money out of corporations.? (4)*
 Romney also raised taxes on business again in 2004 and 2005, for a  grand total of $309 million levied upon the corporate sector. (5) He  then increased taxes on business property (6), tried to raise taxes on  hotels (but was stopped by the Democrat legislature!) (7), joined a  coalition lobbying congress to tax internet activity (8), and supported a  tax on out of state commuters. (9)
 Nor did Romney fight the passage of higher rates on death taxes; indeed, his official position on a state bill was *?no position.?*  (10).    Moreover, Governor Romney supported gas tax hikes both for  Massachusetts and for the federal government. (11)  He also proposed a  new excise tax on SUVs and a new sales tax on all used cars. (12)
 Indeed, Romney failed to reduce ANY of the myriad taxes Massachusetts  imposes on its citizens, even though the previous two Republican  governors, William Weld and Paul Cellucci, were both able to reduce tax  rates.  As Governor Cellucci confirmed, Romney ?*did not have any broad-based tax cuts in his four years as Governor.?*  (13).   Indeed, while Romney raised over a hundred different fees and  taxes, the two previous Republican governors signed more than 40 tax  reduction bills, even though Democrats controlled the legislature.
 Nor are there any taxpayer groups in Massachusetts in agreement with  the notion that Romney never raised taxes.  As the Massachusetts  Taxpayer Foundation stated, *?fees and taxes have increased more than $700 million per year under Governor Mitt Romney?.?*

The Open Letter


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

http://romneyfacts.com/assets/Romney_taxandfee_hikes.xls


----------



## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> what fucking moron supports a candidate and hasn't even read up on him? you are not a baby i am not going to spoon feed you. read up on this guy like a grown man and you will see everything i have mentioned.




i never said i supported anyone.. what fucking moron makes claims and refuses to support them?


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> i never said i supported anyone.. what fucking moron makes claims and refuses to support them?



one that expects you to actually seek information by reading not whining till someone feeds it to you. if you really cared about this stuff you'd have known all this already. i delete my history all the time i'm not seeking out stories and articles i read weeks ago so you don't have to do any actual work educating yourself.


----------



## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> one that expects you to actually seek information by reading not whining till someone feeds it to you. if you really cared about this stuff you'd have known all this already.




-ok i tried to find a transcript where mitt romney says he thinks he will become a god when he dies.. couldnt find one so i guess that's out..

-he did advise a woman to give up her newborn baby for adoption during counseling sessions, however he did _not_ threaten her with excommunication if she did not take his advise.. She kept her child, and was not excommunicated, so there goes that one.

-the woman who wanted an abortion had a serious blood clot which gave the *child* (not the mother) a 50/50 shot of living, mitt romney said that his concern was for the child, and counseled her to at least give the child a chance, she did not, and had the abortion.




Soooooo, after doing my own research, my suspicions that you are completely full of shit and dont have the SLIGHTEST clue what you are talking about are confirmed.. perhaps you should do your "research" somewhere other than People magazine


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> -ok i tried to find a transcript where mitt romney says he thinks he will become a god when he dies.. couldnt find one so i guess that's out..
> 
> *
> you probably can't find proof online that i shit. that must prove that i don't. *
> ...


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

Romney chastised woman for getting life-saving abortion


We?ll call her woman ?X?. She was an active member of the  ward where  Romney was bishop in Massachusetts, at that time in a  neighboring  community where I was not a member. The stake president was  a doctor  named Gordon and was an old friend of X.  X and her husband  went to the  hospital because she had an aching in her leg. *Her doctor  was alarmed  after examining her, telling her she had developed blood  clots and could  not carry the pregnancy to full term. He said they?d  have to give her  blood thinners in order to get rid of the clots and  that they would  endanger the baby.*  X had lost her first baby; the  child was born with  many physical problems and died at two or three  weeks old. X was already  the mother of four teenage children. This  would have been her sixth.

*?First of all the stake president ? Gordon ? came by to see X with a   friend and said well it looks like you have to do this ? terminate the   pregnancy. He was perfectly comfortable with X?s decision, since both   she and the child were in peril.* And Gordon was technically higher in   the LDS church hierarchy than Mitt was as bishop.


 So then Mitt came in to the hospital. X thought Mitt had come to be   comforting because that?s what bishops do. They have a pastoral role.   But she said that instead he was critical.
 He said ? What do you think you?re doing?
​She said ? Well, we have to abort the baby because I have these blood clots.

 And he said something to the effect of ? *Well, why do you get off easy when other women have their babies?*

 And she said ? What are you talking about? *This is a life threatening situation.*

 And he said ? Well what about the life of the baby?

 And she said ? I have four other children and I think it would be really irresponsible to continue the pregnancy.

 X said she found herself arguing with Romney about her medical   crisis, said he was very unsympathetic, very critical, and said that   under the circumstances in no way did he condone her aborting the child.
   And he left.
​*That?s right ? Romney?s spiritual guidance includes shaming women saving their own lives.* Some leadership qualities, huh.


----------



## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> i seriously hope you don't think Romney is a "won't raise taxes" guy
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Weird, i thought everyone wanted corporations and rich people to be taxed more..


so when obama signs new taxes on corporations into law.. it's good for jobs and the economy, but when romney does it... it's bad.. interesting 

catch 22 for our friend Mitty here.. if he passed tax cuts onto corporations, he would have been labeled a "wall street whore", and since he passed tax hikes, he's labeled a "job destroying..whore"


----------



## hoyle21 (Aug 14, 2012)

After a 5 second google search:

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/mormonshopetobecomegods.htm


----------



## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing said:


>




lol.. its obvious you havent taken any classes on logic.. you are literally fluent in logical fallacies and self-contradiction. i can now see why the "deep-thinkers" on this site avoid your topics completely.. suppose i should do the same. adieu


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

i don't think a rich person should have to pay any more taxes dollar for dollar than i do. i don't see Romney as any kind of ethical person. all i see is people swinging on his dick cuz they don't like obama, not because he is a great candidate.


----------



## secdrl (Aug 14, 2012)

Jimmyusa said:


> What do you mean? He ate a dog??




In his book, "dreams of my father," or whatever the stupid thing is called, he talks about eating dog in Kenya.


----------



## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

hoyle21 said:


> After a 5 second google search:
> 
> Mormons Hope to Become Gods of Their Own Worlds




so where is the transcript/video of mitt romney saying he believes this? 

be advised, if you claim he believes it because it's in his doctrine, then you are saying that all muslims believe they must commit jihad because its in their doctrine


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

hoyle21 said:


> After a 5 second google search:
> 
> Mormons Hope to Become Gods of Their Own Worlds



and you do not get high up in the church, to act as a missionary or spiritual counselor etc, by rejecting it's teachings.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> so where is the transcript/video of mitt romney saying he believes this?




where is one of me shitting?


----------



## secdrl (Aug 14, 2012)

I don't care if he's an atheist. I care about his polcies and what direction he is going to take the country in. Everything that is wrong with this current administration and this path they're leading us down, and everyone wants to focus on Mitt Romney's religion? What a buncha crap.


----------



## hoyle21 (Aug 14, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> so where is the transcript/video of mitt romney saying he believes this?
> 
> be advised, if you claim he believes it because it's in his doctrine, then you are saying that all muslims believe they must commit jihad because its in their doctrine



I believe all Lutherans believe in the Trinity.     Do you even know what jihad means?


----------



## hoyle21 (Aug 14, 2012)

secdrl said:


> I don't care if he's an atheist. I care about his polcies and what direction he is going to take the country in. Everything that is wrong with this current administration and this path they're leading us down, and everyone wants to focus on Mitt Romney's religion? What a buncha crap.



I openly will be voting third party.    So show me where Romney is different than Obama on policy?

They are virtually the same guy.   It's people who vote based on R's and D's that are what's wrong with this country.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

secdrl said:


> I don't care if he's an atheist. I care about his polcies and what direction he is going to take the country in. Everything that is wrong with this current administration and this path they're leading us down, and everyone wants to focus on Mitt Romney's religion? What a buncha crap.



his policies and directions seem to change with whatever thing he thinks saying will get him votes.


----------



## secdrl (Aug 14, 2012)

hoyle21 said:


> I openly will be voting third party. *So show me where Romney is different than Obama on policy*?
> 
> They are virtually the same guy. It's people who vote based on R's and D's that are what's wrong with this country.



Barack Obama said, "I respect governor Romney and congressman Ryan, *but we have two drastically different views for our country."


*Mitt Romney isn't president yet. When he is, we'll revisit this thread and I'll point out how his policies are different from Barry's. Just a few examples: Healthcare, energy regulations, taxes.

And, voting openly for a third party candidate...whatever. It's useless. Any vote for a third party candidate is a vote for Obama. (if you want a change of presidency) What a waste of a vote, though. Seriously.


----------



## secdrl (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> his policies and directions seem to change with whatever thing he thinks saying will get him votes.



You're talking about Barry, right?


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

i think political campaign promises and policies aren't ANYTHING but what some jerk thinks is best he say if he wants to get elected. amounts to bullshit way too often for me to bite the hook anymore.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

latching onto Romney just because he's not Obama is like grabbing the first whore in the street that says, "oh yea baby i'll treat you right." you're forgetting it's still a whore. i just feel sorry for people who actually expect heroics. ain't gonna happen.


----------



## secdrl (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> latching onto Romney just because he's not Obama is like grabbing the first whore in the street that says, "oh yea baby i'll treat you right." you're forgetting it's still a whore. i just feel sorry for people who actually expect heroics. ain't gonna happen.



I don't necessarily expect heroics and a drastic overnight change, but I do expect American morale to improve. I expect that unemployment will drop drastically. I suspect when the crippling regulations on energy are lifted, it'll improve our energy focus. Also, nobody ever thinks about this, but our kids, grandkids; how about their future? Mitt Romney's selection of Paul Ryan was a bold pick, but shows that he's serious about improving our devastating debt situation. (something the president was supposed to cut in half in his first term) 'Member that?


----------



## secdrl (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing-- I just got this email sent to me from representative Ryan. He asked me to pass this on to you...


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

if he wins, which let's face isn't worth a snowball's chance in hell, we will see how much people hate him after a few years and why. same old same old.


----------



## secdrl (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> if he wins, which let's face *isn't worth a snowball's chance in hell*, we will see how much people hate him after a few years and why. same old same old.



How do you figure? You're talking like the poll #'s have Barry at 99% approval rating.  You really think there is zero chance they'll win?


----------



## hoyle21 (Aug 14, 2012)

secdrl said:


> Little Wing-- I just got this email sent to me from representative Ryan. He asked me to pass this on to you...



His budget takes 30 years before we magically balance it.


----------



## hoyle21 (Aug 14, 2012)

secdrl said:


> Barack Obama said, "I respect governor Romney and congressman Ryan, *but we have two drastically different views for our country."
> 
> 
> *Mitt Romney isn't president yet. When he is, we'll revisit this thread and I'll point out how his policies are different from Barry's. Just a few examples: Healthcare, energy regulations, taxes.
> ...



You believe his policy decisions as Governor will be different than his policies as President?   He already has a record, why not look at that?

Health care-check
raise corporate taxes-check
Increase spending-check


----------



## secdrl (Aug 14, 2012)

hoyle21 said:


> His budget takes 30 years before we magically balance it.



It might take the democrats that long just to vote on a budget.


----------



## secdrl (Aug 14, 2012)

hoyle21 said:


> You believe his policy decisions as Governor will be different than his policies as President? He already has a record, why not look at that?
> 
> Health care-check
> raise corporate taxes-check
> Increase spending-check




He implemented HC *without* raising taxes one cent.

When he *left* as governor MA was ranked #19 (was in the 40's when he first took ofice)

*Successful *businessman with a proven track record to "turn things around." 


**Did you see that Gary Johnson will be speaking at the DNC? What a sellout. ( I believe it was him they mentioned)


----------



## hoyle21 (Aug 14, 2012)

secdrl said:


> He implemented HC *without* raising taxes one cent.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1) That's a half truth at best:   This is from Romney's website:  3 - The overall costs of the program to the state have not exceeded expectations. At the time of passage, Romney predicted that the new law would add just 1 to 1.5% to the state budget. Last year the additional cost to the state was only 1.2% - precisely where Romney predicted it would be even though the costs to the state would be much lower if the Massachusetts legislature and Governor Patrick (Romney's successor) hadn't added significant costs to the healthcare law. (This is covered more thoroughly in Section 6 - What changes would Romney make to RomneyCare?)

2)Ranked 19 in what?   Not economic growth or job creation.   Economic growth they were 47.

3)You should double check that.


----------



## Swiper (Aug 14, 2012)

secdrl said:


> It might take the democrats that long just to vote on a budget.



obamas budget was defeated 0-97 in the senate and 0-414 in the house.


----------



## secdrl (Aug 14, 2012)

hoyle21 said:


> 1) That's a half truth at best: This is from Romney's website: 3 - The overall costs of the program to the state have not exceeded expectations. At the time of passage, Romney predicted that the new law would add just 1 to 1.5% to the state budget. Last year the additional cost to the state was only 1.2% - precisely where Romney predicted it would be even though the costs to the state would be much lower if the Massachusetts legislature and Governor Patrick (Romney's successor) hadn't added significant costs to the healthcare law. (This is covered more thoroughly in Section 6 - What changes would Romney make to RomneyCare?)
> 
> 2)Ranked 19 in what? Not economic growth or job creation. Economic growth they were 47.
> 
> 3)You should double check that.



I guess we can interpret this however we want. He said, she said...FactCheck.org : Romney’s Jobs Record Is Best (or Worst)


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## secdrl (Aug 14, 2012)

Swiper said:


> obamas budget was defeated 0-97 in the senate and 0-414 in the house.



That's because they're all racists.


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## hypo_glycemic (Aug 14, 2012)

secdrl said:


> That's because they're all racists.



Not taking any sides but ,  this^^^


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> where is one of me shitting?




i know you arent actually this stupid so im going to ignore this painfully obvious logical fallacy


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## LAM (Aug 14, 2012)

Swiper said:


> obamas budget was defeated 0-97 in the senate and 0-414 in the house.



and the GOP hasn't passed an balanced budget since Eisenhower in 55-56...so what exactly is your point?


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> i know you arent actually this stupid so im going to ignore this painfully obvious logical fallacy




how do you think he became powerful in his church? by taking it's teachings with a grain of salt? hardly.


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## secdrl (Aug 14, 2012)

LAM, you have no problems trashing the republicans. You bash their policies, their ideals and their candidates. Why do I never hear you criticize the democrats. They're a pretty f***** up party on many levels, yet you never seem to bring yourself to trash their policies. It's always the republicans fault.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> how do you think he became powerful in his church? by taking it's teachings with a grain of salt? hardly.



you are making an assumption and masquerading it as fact.. if you want to be taken seriously you are going to have to stop doing that


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

like you assuming because he denied something he's telling the truth and you presenting that as a fact that he didn't do it? if he doesn't believe in his church doctrine what the hell is he a member for? political posturing? 

if you want to be taken seriously walk through compton without pissing yourself.


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## hoyle21 (Aug 14, 2012)

Being from Michigan it's really odd because George Romney is thought of very highly, he almost has a "hero' type status around here,  Mitt though, not so much.   I would be very surprised if he won this state, the state he grew up in.

And before anyone goes with the typical labor unions, Chicago style politics of the north, republicans control the state senate, house and governorship.


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

he keeps quiet about his religion for good reason

Political Animal - Romney’s Missing Narrative


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> like you assuming because he denied something he's telling the truth and you presenting that as a fact that he didn't do it?



Nope, i just know that there are multiple sides to a story, and only taking one person's side is foolish.





Little Wing said:


> if he doesn't believe in his church doctrine what the hell is he a member for? political posturing?



until he tells us, we can only speculate as to what his intentions are (a foolish practice which you appear to have absolutely no reservation from participating in). There are dozens of individuals in my christian church who fornicate, some who are homosexuals (few), and some who do not tithe. They may be christians even though they are not abiding by christian doctrine





Little Wing said:


> if you want to be taken seriously walk through compton without pissing yourself.




this one really got me scratching my head.. at this point it is only out of morbid curiosity that i am responding to your posts


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

so when Mitt "tells us" something you will simply believe it? if so you shouldn't be allowed to vote.


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

Oops! Romney Introduces Ryan as President - The Daily Beast

wow. real rocket scientist.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> so when Mitt "tells us" something you will simply believe it? if so you shouldn't be allowed to vote.



nope. 

If he tells us something about his personal beliefs regarding his religion I will believe him


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> Oops! Romney Introduces Ryan as President - The Daily Beast
> 
> wow. real rocket scientist.




obama did the same exact thing, he also said "marine corpse" numerous times throughout a speech.. pelosi said 500 million americans will lose their jobs if the stimulus package isnt passed, people make verbal errors.. it's simply a side effect of being human.


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> nope.
> 
> If he tells us something about his personal beliefs regarding his religion I will believe him



you don't think how he treated these two women tells us anything?


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> you don't think how he treated these two women tells us anything?



he counseled one single woman to give her child up for adoption.. nothing wrong with that.

the article you posted regarding the pregnant woman with the bloodclots was hilariously biased, only someone who thinks as you appear to would take everything written as fact "sight unseen" as it were. 

annnnnd another logical fallacy.. i should start keeping track


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

so what is your take on his frequent, politically-motivated, changes of position, and the weird lies he tells about his political career?

​


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


>


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> so what is your take on his frequent, politically-motivated, changes of position, and the weird lies he tells about his political career?
> 
> ​




he is just like any other politician the world has seen.


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## irish_2003 (Aug 14, 2012)

why are libtards so interested in romney's package? that's gay...you should wanna hear about his stance and policies and not his privates...


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## Curt James (Aug 14, 2012)

Curt James said:


>





irish_2003 said:


> why are libtards so interested in romney's package? that's gay...you should wanna hear about his stance and policies and not his privates...



That's _my _joke, GDI!


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## hypo_glycemic (Aug 14, 2012)

irish_2003 said:


> why are libtards so interested in romney's package? that's gay...you should wanna hear about his stance and policies and not his privates...



If you ask Paul Ryan, he hadn't a clue on Mitts budget or the house budget? I hope by the time they get to Florida, that they run the balanced numbers, because Ryan looked like a retard when posed the question!


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## Gregzs (Aug 14, 2012)

secdrl said:


> In his book, "dreams of my father," or whatever the stupid thing is called, he talks about eating dog in Kenya.



Is eating what he was served in another country inappropriate? After the Queen of England was served gibnut and the British media complained, the animal was renamed The Royal Rat. The locals in South America eat it regularly. 
People in other countries have eaten what was available for thousands of years. The places where cows and pigs are scarce are where other animals are used as livestock, including bugs, guinea pigs, dogs, and cats. Here in the USA they are considered pets. The immigrants and their descendants (our neighbors) do not think eating dog is a big deal. They just do not have to eat them here.


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

[h=2]*Flat-Out Liar*[/h] In his 2008 presidential campaign, Romney simply lied repeatedly while  trying to reinvent himself as a conservative.  For example:
 -- "I have a gun of my own."   
(Not true.  He was talking about a gun one of his grown sons own.)
 -- "I've been a hunter pretty much my entire life."  
(He hunted once at 15, and a second time in his late 50s.)
 -- "I told you what my position was, and what I, what I did as governor; the fact that I received the endorsement of the NRA." 
(No - and his Democratic opponent actually had a higher NRA rating)
 -- "I saw my father march with Martin Luther King."  
(No, they never marched together.  They were both in Michigan at the same time once, but Mitt was in France on his mission.)
 -- "My father and I marched with Martin Luther King Jr. through the streets of Detroit." 
(even more false...) 
 	This last lie was the funnest because of all the waffling that Romney  did trying to explain it.   After a Boston newspaper showed that they  couldn't have marched together, Mitt's spokesman said that  	"George W. Romney and Martin Luther King Jr. marched together in June,  1963 -- although possibly not on the same day or in the same city."  	And Mitt then explained "I've tried to be as accurate as I can be.  If  you look at the literature or look at the dictionary, the term 'saw'  includes being aware of &#151; in the sense I've described.  	I'm an English literature major as well.  When we say I saw the  Patriots win the World Series, it doesn't necessarily mean you were  there -- excuse me, the Super Bowl. I saw my dad become president  	of American Motors. Did that mean you were there for the ceremony? No,  it&#146;s a figure of speech." -- *Sources*


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

[h=2]*Draft Dodger and Chickenhawk*[/h]  
 	Mitt Romney, incredibly, was able to avoid serving in Vietnam because  he was on his Mormon mission, driving around the French countryside.   	(The Mormon church defined missions -- which all good young Mormon men  go on -- as a form of priesthood.)  In fact, not one of Romney's five  sons has served in the military either, 	despite Mitt arguing for U.S. military involvement in Iraq and  elsewhere.   	
 	Even more outrageously, when he was asked to justify this hypocrisy,  Romney claimed that his sons were serving the country by driving  Winnebagos around Iowa and campaigning for him. 
  -- *Sources*


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

[h=2]*Phony "Varmint" Hunter*[/h] Back when he was liberal, Romney supported the Brady Bill, assault  weapons bans and Massachusetts' very strict gun control law.  Now that  he's a conservative  Republican, Romney has claimed that the NRA endorsed him in previous  campaigns.   (Oops -- that was easily proven to be a lie. His Democratic opponent  actually had a better NRA rating.)   
 	He also claimed he was a "lifetime hunter" back in 2007, though he  didn't own a gun, has never had a hunting license and had only joined  the NRA in August 2006 -- as a "Lifetime Member" --  just about exactly the moment he started campaigning for President.  ("Lifetime Member" means you pay a lot of extra money, and don't have to  renew your membership each year.)
 When pressed on that, his "lifelong hunting" turned out to be a total of  two hunts -- one as a teenager, hunting rabbits with his cousin in  Idaho, and one just about the time he started running for president,  chasing fenced-in quail at a Republican fundraising event. 
 	His explanation was even funnier -- "I'm not a BIG-GAME hunter. I've  made that very clear," he said. "I've always been a rodent and rabbit  hunter. Small varmints, if you will. I began when I was 15 or so and I  have hunted those kinds of varmints since then. More than two times." 	
 This year (2012), he claimed again that he was a big hunter, claiming he  had hunted moose in Montana.  No wait, make that elk. "I'm not a  serious hunter, but I must admit, I guess I enjoy the sport and when I  get invited I'm delighted to be able to go hunting." Sure.  He's DELIGHTED to go varmint hunting.  If you will.  it's  FRIGHTFULLY fun, n'est ce pas? -- *Sources*


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

[h=2]*Ill-Gotten Gains*[/h]	   	  Mitt Romney was born rich -- his dad was the the CEO of American  Motors, and later governor of Michigan -- but Mitt got much richer by  through ill-gotten gains. 	  In some cases, the companies that he ran made him rich through outright fraud and criminal behavior, but most of the time he it was his  	  technically legal predatory  	  capitalism at Bain & Co.-- leveraged buyouts, taking over  companies by borrowing against their own assets, stripping them of  resources, firing workers, busting unions and getting rid of workers'  pensions.  	  Meanwhile, he himself gets a multimillion dollar annual pension from  Bain, which he pays minimal taxes on due to tax shelters and hiding his  money in shady,  	  foreign tax havens (such as Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, Luxembourg,  and Swiss bank accounts) that have extreme secrecy.   	  
 	  In fact, Romney moved many of Bain's investment funds to the Cayman  Islands or Bermuda, and has somewhere between $13 million and $33  million of his $250 million fortune 	  hidden there.  He earns more than $1 million per year just in the  interest, dividends and capital gains from these tax haven funds.   Romney is earning extraordinary returns on 	  these funds -- 20% to 30%, according to Brad Malt, the manager of his  trust. 	  
 	  Romney fiercely resisted releasing his tax returns, and then only  released one year -- 2010 -- when it looked like he might lose the  presidential race if he  	  didn't. 	  This, even though his dad George Romney started the practice of  politicians releasing tax returns in the first place, when he ran for  president in the 1960s.   	  Since Mitt has been running for President since 2006, he had plenty  of time to make sure that one year looked good.  Now we have an idea why  he didn't release  	  any returns earlier. 	  Because even that one, carefully prepared year has plenty of  dangerous items.  It revealed his overseas secret bank accounts, and his  low overall tax rate 	  of under 15%.  But there's worse.  	  
 	  Romney was also required to file a financial disclosure form, less  detailed than taxes, when he filed for president.  In fact, he argued  that he should have to  	  release his 	  taxes because the disclosure form showed everything important. But 23  different investment funds shown on his taxes did not appear on his  disclosure form --  	  and 11 of 	  those are in those overseas, secret banking centers.  That's a sign  of what he's embarrassed to reveal -- and it's also a felony, if the  government can prove it was 	  deliberate and not just a sloppy oversight. 	  
 	  The biggest concern is that Swiss bank account, one of the items not  on his financial disclosure.  Mitt had it from 2003 to 2010, when his  adviser shut it down. 	  He closed it in the middle of an amnesty that the IRS had declared  for owners of previously unreported Swiss bank accounts -- if they came  clean,  they would not  	  face criminal prosecution for not reporting it in previous years  (which was illegal - plus most weren't paying taxes on that money).  Was  the sudden shutdown  	  of Romney's secret Swiss bank account part of this  	  amnesty program? We can't know 	  unless and until he releases prior returns, like his dad who released  12 years of prior returns.  And Mitt is still fiercely refusing to do  so. 	  
 	   Note: Bain Capital was not "venture capital" investment, as many  news stories have incorrectly said. That's an essential part of new  company formation in today's economy.  	   Romney practiced what is known as "private equity" takeovers, the  kind of leveraged buyouts that Kolberg, Kravis and Roberts are infamous  for. 	  -- *Sources*


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

[h=2]*Predatory Capitalism*[/h] Romney brags about his business success, but the vast majority of his  money comes from technically legal, completely predatory and unethical  business pillaging.  He was very successful at leveraged buyouts -- not investing in new  companies, but using borrowed money to buy established companies, strip  them of resources, and  quickly sell them for a profit.  How can you make money off a company  that fails, you might ask? It's simple -- have it borrow a lot of money and give it to  you, take its pension money and any cash in the bank, then sell it or  take it public,  quickly before it goes bankrupt. If you sell when the economy is good,  people will go for it, and you get rich.  Sure, a lot of people lose  their jobs, and other people lose their money, but you're rich! 
  The most famous example is an office supply company called American Pad  and Paper. Romney and Bain Capital bought it from Mead Company, when it  had total debts of   $11 million.  By the time they sold it, the company had $400 million in  debt -- and Bain had earned $100 million off the deals, between fees it  charged the company for  managing it  and for buying other companies, and profits from selling the company's  stock after they took it public (for yet another fee). Bain was later  sued by stockholders for  fraud in overstating the value of the company. 			  -- *Sources*


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

[h=2]*Medicare Fraud That Made Him Rich*[/h] 
In 1989, Romney led Bain Capital's purchase of Damon Corp., a medical  testing company, and took a seat on the Board of Directors to better  manage it.  During Romney's four years, Bain tripled its investment, and Romney personally made $473,000  -- while Damon plumped its profits with Medicare fraud (running  thousands of medical tests doctors didn't want, and billing Medicare for them).  The company pled  guilty to crimes  committed during his tenure and paid a record fine of $119 million.   Company President Joseph Isola pleaded no contest to fraud, and a vice  president was also convicted. 
Romney claims he "uncovered" the fraudulent claims and "took  corrective action," but court  records show that he did not notify prosecutors or stop the fraudulent billing.  He just asked  company lawyers what changes they could make to avoid prosecution, after  the feds' LABSCAM prosecution targeted a different medical testing firm.  The cheating  continued, prosecutors say, until the day Bain sold the company to  Corning.  Furthermore,  Damon Corp. was required to list in various SEC filings any significant  legal risks it faced.  Romney made no mention of the fraud he  "uncovered," even though  it led to a $119 million fine, the largest in history. Damon Corp. is  another Bain acquisition that later went bankrupt, killing over a  thousand jobs -- but not before Bain made $7.4 million in profit.  By amazing coincidence, Rick Santorum also made a lot of money off of a company involved in Medicare fraud:  Universal Health Care. -- *Sources*


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

[h=2]*Hired Illegal Immigrants *[/h] Romney makes a big issue of being tough on illegal immigrants.  He has  pushed for a wall on the Mexican border so hard that Bill O'Reilly  offered to call it the "Mitt Romney Memorial Wall." 
 The only problem is, Romney has hired illegal immigrants to tend his  gardens for over 10 years.  Three illegal immigrants interviewed by the  Boston Globe said they have worked on Romney's lawn for years, that he greets them with a  "Buenos dias", and that his wife was friendly and often asks how they  are.  Two were interviewed back in Guatemala, where they have returned.  They made $8 to $9 per hour working 11 hour  days.  "They wanted that house to look really nice," said one worker,  now back in Copado, Guatemala.  "It took a long time."  The other, Rene Alvarez Rosales (now in Suchitepequez, Guatemala) said it cost him  about $5,000 to have a smuggler take him across the border. 
 They all work for "Community Lawn Care with a Heart," a small company  run by legal Colombian immigrant Ricardo Saenz.  Asked about his  workers' statements that they were illegal immigrants, Saenz said "What you've heard is not my problem. ... I don't need to tell them to  show me documents.  I know who they are, and they are legal."  When  Romney was asked about the workers, he said "Aw geez" and walked away. On one occasion, a (real) state trooper with the Romney security detail  asked about the workers' immigration status.  Saenz said they were legal  but forgot their papers that day, and the matter was dropped. -- *Sources*


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

[h=2]*Top Aide Illegally Impersonating Police Officers*[/h] The most bizarre scandal of Romney's 2008 campaign involved Jay Garrity,  Mitt's director of operations (basically, his right-hand man.) Garrity resigned from the campaign after several allegations that he  claimed to be a policeman, and used that authority to intimidate people. 
 	In one case, Garrity pulled over a New York Times reporter, ran his  plates and ordered him to stop following the campaign caravan.  In  another, he allegedly called 	a plumbing company to complain about one of their employees, whose  driving upset him, and identified himself as "Trooper Garrity of the  Massachusetts State Police."  Garrity denied that allegation, but  	he was cited by Boston police in 2004 for having police equipment --  including flashing lights -- in his Crown Victoria sedan without  authorization.  The phone call was recorded  	because an answering service actually fielded the call, which the  person who called himself "Trooper Garrity" apparently didn't notice. 
 	Despite his resignation, Garrity remains under investigation in two states for impersonation of police. 	
 Well, it gets worse.  According to three different anonymous sources,  one who works for the Romney campaign, Garrity made up fake police  badges -- bright silver plates with the seal of Massachusetts on them -- and gave them to several other staffers, who  used them to order reporters and other people out of events, get past  security guards, and avoid paying highway tolls. In fact, Garrity has been handing out badges since Romney was governor  of Massachusetts.   
 So this was not just one staffer's personal fetish. Sources named at  least two other Romney staffers who used the badges -- Mark Glanville  and William Ritter.  "They knew the badges were fake and probably  illegal," the campaign source said. In fact, Garrity was Romney's right-hand man and rarely left his side.   It's hard to believe that Mitt Romney himself did not notice the  fact that Garrity was constantly flashing a police badge as they blew  through security into various events.  The Romney campaign has not  commented on whether Mitt Romney knew about the badges. 
 Using fake badges is, of course, illegal. 
 -- *Sources*


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

Other *politicians* look at this guy and say,  	"Wow, that dude is a phony, two-faced, flip-flopping weasel."  And that's really saying something.   	But there was a prophecy, *the White Horse Prophecy* spoken by Joseph Smith  	himself on May 6,1843 in the presence of Edwin Rushton and Theodore Turley.   	It holds: "A terrible revolution will take place in the land of America, such as has never been seen before; for  	the land will be literally left without a supreme government. And every species of wickedness will run rampant."  	
 	Anyway, Mormons (the White Horse) will get rich with gold and minerals,  	*the heathen Chinese will invade a land beyond the Rockies*, banks in every nation except England and Utah will fail, and only the White Horse will remain to  	save the day.  (We'll let you guess who the "*Red Horse*" and "*Black Horse*" represent.) 	
 This prophecy was discussed when Mitt's dad, George, ran for president, and again when Orrin Hatch ran, and *Glenn Beck dogwhistled it*  after Obama was elected.   	(No one brought it up with with John Huntsman, though.) The Mormon  Church does not endorse it formally, perhaps because of the part about  how "the doings of the "Black"  	Horse will he terrible" because "they will have fear of becoming slaves  again." But Mitt Romney and his father admit discussing it during  George's presidential run. 	
Is now the 	time for Mitt Romney to ride to America's rescue? For "*when the Constitution of the United States hangs,  	as it were, upon a thread as fine as a single silk fiber*, they will have to call for the 'Mormon' Elders to save it from utter destruction;  	and they will step forth and do it."


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)




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## oufinny (Aug 14, 2012)

hoyle21 said:


> I openly will be voting third party.    So show me where Romney is different than Obama on policy?
> 
> They are virtually the same guy.   It's people who vote based on R's and D's that are what's wrong with this country.



Best comment of this thread.  The complete lack of original thought anymore is ridiculous.


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

i like this one too

Other *politicians* look at this guy and say,  	"Wow, that dude is a phony, two-faced, flip-flopping weasel."  And that's really saying something.


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## Curt James (Aug 14, 2012)

LW...  _sooo_, you're voting for him?

(ducks, runs, hides)


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

the more i read about the whole lot of them the worse my headache gets.


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## Little Wing (Aug 14, 2012)

Ron Paul's Skeleton Closet -- political scandals, quotes and character

Barack Obama's Skeleton Closet

a lot of old news but oy...


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## Swiper (Aug 15, 2012)

LAM said:


> and the GOP hasn't passed an balanced budget since Eisenhower in 55-56...so what exactly is your point?



that his budget was rejected by his own party.  thats pretty sad.


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## oufinny (Aug 15, 2012)

Swiper said:


> that his budget was rejected by his own party.  thats pretty sad.



There is no reasoning with LAM when his mind is made up.


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## Little Wing (Aug 15, 2012)

Dramatic video: 71-year-old taken to the ground for questioning Paul Ryan - YouTube

entitlement program my ass. fucking old guy had a point. this is the shit you can expect.

he said he paid into that for 50 years. 50 years and he has no right to be heard about it? just stfu America. wow.


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## Little Wing (Aug 15, 2012)

i think this guy was hand picked to make sure Obama wins.


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## Little Wing (Aug 15, 2012)

*The Real 'Entitlement Mentality' That Is Bankrupting America*




Many Republicans talk of an entitlement mentality that threatens the  character and finances of the United States. In their view, the problem  is that too many voters feel entitled to goodies provided by the  government and financed by taxpayers.

  It is true that so-called entitlement programs are growing as a share  of the federal budget and the national economy. Along with spending on  national defense and interest on the federal debt, spending on  entitlement programs consumes the overwhelming majority of the federal  budget. But a close look at the data shows that it's not a voter sense  of entitlement that is driving the process. Quite the contrary.
  The two biggest entitlement programs -- Social Security and Medicare  -- are seen by voters as trust funds they pay into during their working  lives and then get back in their retirement years. That's what President  Franklin D. Roosevelt sold voters back in 1935. He wanted the  "contributors" to have a "legal, moral and political right to collect  their pensions." That's what voters still want today. Seventy-three  percent believe the best way for the program to operate is to protect  the trust funds and make sure there is enough tax revenue to pay the  promised benefits. Just 10 percent want to scrap this approach and have  the government pay benefits out of the general operating budget.
  There are problems with the public perception, of course, starting  with the fact that the way our politicians have defined "trust funds" is  fraudulent. But those problems reflect the failings and deceptions of  politicians rather than voters. In Social Security and Medicare, voters  are not looking for a handout. They are looking for a return on money  invested.
  Perhaps because of their distrust of the politicians, two out of  three voters now think workers should be able to consider the relevant  trade-offs on their own. For example, those who would like to retire  later could pay less in taxes now, while those who would like to retire  earlier could pay more in taxes now. That's an investing mindset, not a  sense of entitlement.
  But politicians in Washington continue to blame the voters for  allegedly wanting more government than they are willing to pay for. *The  effort of politicians to pin the blame on voters diverts attention from  the real entitlement mentality that threatens to bankrupt the nation: A  political class that feels entitled to rule over the rest of us.  Government spending has gone up in every years since 1954 because  political leaders have pursued their own agenda rather than listening to  voters.*


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## Little Wing (Aug 15, 2012)

I think some pissed off old man seeing his life investment threatened by Ryan is going to relieve Ryan of his life.


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## Little Wing (Aug 15, 2012)

if you want to know who Ryan really is.... what he is, read this

Paul Ryan's Skeleton in the Closet | Business News



 Rand celebrated greed and selfishness, rejected Judeo-Christian  morality, and set forth an alien vision of a nearly government-free  America that would be ruled by its industrialists and bankers -- an  untaxed super-rich elite. She was a strident atheist. 

In 2005, he gave a speech to the Atlas Society, an organization devoted  to the promulgation of Rand's views. A tape recorder was running. An  audio file of his speech can be accessed here. It's important to listen to the entire tape, which runs about 20 minutes, to understand the full depths of Ryan's dishonesty.

_"I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about  who I am and what my value systems are and what my beliefs are. It's  inspired me so much that it's required reading in my office for all my  interns and my staff._ 
_"The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I  had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand. And the  fight we are in here, make no mistake about it, is a fight of  individualism versus collectivism._ 
_"When you look at the 20th century experiment with collectivism  that Ayn Rand more than anybody else did such a good job of  articulating, the pitfalls of statism and collectivism, you can't find a  thinker or writer who did a better job of describing and laying out the  moral case for capitalism than Ayn Rand."_ 


If Ryan is getting a bad rap as a Randian, then he is definitely a  victim of an injustice. But Ryan didn't have a brief flirtation with  this atheistic, amoral -- but highly appealing -- philosophy as a youth.  He was a full-fledged Randian as a Congressman. He didn't change his  views. He is lying about them. 

no shit.


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## Little Wing (Aug 15, 2012)




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## IronAddict (Aug 15, 2012)

Man, what the fuck is wrong with you fuckin' turds! 

Fuck romney and fuck all you religeous bastards. You' re all  fucking fools, even if you dont know it yet.

A couple of years from now, or maybe a few more for you fucks, you'll realise Wing is right.

But you dumb fucks will probably still be christian and still vote republican.

You dumb fuckers!


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## hypo_glycemic (Aug 15, 2012)

IronAddict said:


> Man, what the fuck is wrong with you fuckin' turds!
> 
> Fuck romney and fuck all you religeous bastards. You' re all  fucking fools, even if you dont know it yet.
> 
> ...


----------



## IronAddict (Aug 15, 2012)

Dumb fuckers,  Now you wanna agree with another religion.

Just because he's republican

You will all go to hell. 

Quote me, cause I'll see you there!


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 15, 2012)

Jon Stewart Mocks Paul Ryan's Hypocritical Fiscal Stance With Twilight, Taylor Lautner Imagery (VIDEO)


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 15, 2012)

Following the unveiling of Mitt Romney's vice presidential selection last Saturday, the media has commonly referred to Rep. Paul Ryan  (R-WI) as a ?deficit hawk? who is ?serious? about doing whatever it  takes to balance the budget.  However, some claim that Ryan?s voting record  does not match up with his anti-deficit persona.  Last night, Jon  Stewart tried to raise awareness of Ryan?s record by using the Twilight  theme.  The Twilight narrative eventually fell apart, but in the process*  Stewart made a strong argument that Ryan actually increased helped  create the deficit he now decries.*


----------



## Zaphod (Aug 15, 2012)

Here's a pretty good read about Paul Ryan

James Zogby: Paul Ryan: Grow Up


----------



## hagan (Aug 15, 2012)

People will believe almost anything these politicians twist around all you have to do is google Ryans budget plan to see how completely full of shit these people are. There is nothing fiscally conservative in it it acctually places the country in a bigger deficit. They believe in only the elite or rich have more rights than any body else. Social Darwinism


----------



## Zaphod (Aug 15, 2012)

hagan said:


> People will believe almost anything these politicians twist around all you have to do is google Ryans budget plan to see how completely full of shit these people are. There is nothing fiscally conservative in it it acctually places the country in a bigger deficit. They believe in only the elite or rich have more rights than any body else. Social Darwinism



The huge problem is all the morons that can't be bothered to learn the facts.  Fiction is the new fact.  Science no longer matters.  Truths are now lies.  Welcome to Amerika.


----------



## hypo_glycemic (Aug 15, 2012)

.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 15, 2012)

Zaphod said:


> Here's a pretty good read about Paul Ryan
> 
> James Zogby: Paul Ryan: Grow Up



really good read. the author had a great mom.


----------



## hagan (Aug 15, 2012)

Zaphod said:


> The huge problem is all the morons that can't be bothered to learn the facts. Fiction is the new fact. Science no longer matters. Truths are now lies. Welcome to Amerika.



Aint that the friggin truth


----------



## secdrl (Aug 15, 2012)

The last 30 posters are all facist nazis.


----------



## Zaphod (Aug 15, 2012)

The cool thing about fascist nazis is that you know what they stand for.


----------



## IronAddict (Aug 15, 2012)

Yeah, I get it, cause you said so.


----------



## IronAddict (Aug 15, 2012)

And remember, who supported those fascist nazis.


----------



## Zaphod (Aug 15, 2012)

The super rich.


----------



## IronAddict (Aug 15, 2012)

secdrl said:


> The last 30 posters are all facist nazis.



I would've never picked up SNCO, much less NCO, if I were a facist.

Now what?


----------



## hagan (Aug 15, 2012)

secdrl said:


> The last 30 posters are all facist nazis.



Thats funny. Thats what I thought that new tea bagger faction of the GOP were .


----------



## IronAddict (Aug 15, 2012)

Zaphod said:


> The super rich.



Yeah, the bushs' .

Never mind Hitlers banker, prescott bush.


----------



## IronAddict (Aug 15, 2012)

IronAddict said:


> Yeah, the bushs' .
> 
> Never mind Hitlers banker, prescott bush.



And no matter how you try to spin that, It is what it is.

And never mind Jeb was named after a confederate general.

I ain't making this shit up.


----------



## secdrl (Aug 15, 2012)

IA, you're my knigg and all so I gotta ask. How mad are you gonna be when the comeback kids, Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan win the election?


----------



## IronAddict (Aug 15, 2012)

secdrl said:


> IA, you're my knigg and all so I gotta ask. How mad are you gonna be when the comeback kids, Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan win the election?



IF, those turds win, which really wouldn't surprise me if they did. I'm just gonna bite my lip and hold on to my ass, kinda like the airplane crash position.


----------



## secdrl (Aug 15, 2012)

IronAddict said:


> IF, those turds win, which really wouldn't surprise me if they did. I'm just gonna bite my lip and hold on to my ass, kinda like the airplane crash position.



It won't be that bad, I promise. I'll PM you my AFO and cell # incase you need to confide in 'ole Uncle Sec.


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 15, 2012)

If I don't send theCaptn' cawk pics within a week I'm banned!


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 15, 2012)

If they win other countries will suspect none of us can read.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 15, 2012)

bio-chem said:


> What's the over/under on Little Wing currently being on her period? anyone?




wow. a new low for you.


----------



## secdrl (Aug 15, 2012)

bio-chem said:


> What's the over/under on Little Wing currently being on her period? anyone?




Period or bath salts?


----------



## secdrl (Aug 15, 2012)

After the "visitor message" LW just sent me, I say 99-1 odds on period. That's a winning bet.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 15, 2012)

secdrl said:


> Democrat or not, I'd still give LW the stanky leg.




sorry. no class, no brain, no chance.


----------



## secdrl (Aug 15, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> sorry. no class, no brain, no chance.



I'll hit you up after the election.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 15, 2012)

i trashed your candidate not you. guess we see the level of man that supports these two losers.


----------



## secdrl (Aug 15, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> i trashed your candidate not you. guess we see the level of man that supports these two losers.



Actually, you indirectly implied that people who vote republican have no brains and are stupid.


----------



## IronAddict (Aug 15, 2012)

secdrl said:


> Actually, you indirectly implied that people who vote republican have no brains and are stupid.



Ahh,

somone say something about a period.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 15, 2012)

yea. and i'm leaving. even open chat is a shit hole now. mods won't do their job.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 15, 2012)

bio-chem said:


> What's the over/under on Little Wing currently being on her period? anyone?



fuck you you ignorant pos. and secdrl too.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 15, 2012)

your candidates suit you.


----------



## secdrl (Aug 15, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> fuck you you ignorant pos. and secdrl too.


Lol...don't be mad, LW. We can have our differences without being nasty.


----------



## secdrl (Aug 15, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> your candidates suit you.


I thought you were leaving?


----------



## secdrl (Aug 15, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> yea. and i'm leaving. even open chat is a shit hole now. mods won't do their job.


If the mods did their job, you'd be bant. You started it.


----------



## IronAddict (Aug 15, 2012)

Come on man,

kick ball at noon. After my freetos!


----------



## secdrl (Aug 15, 2012)

IronAddict said:


> Come on man,kick ball at noon. After my freetos!


----------



## SFW (Aug 15, 2012)

IronAddict said:


> And no matter how you try to spin that, It is what it is.
> 
> And never mind Jeb was named after a confederate general.
> 
> I ain't making this shit up.



Gb sr's nick at temple was Magog the demon. magog is a lower level demon, under the influence of Lam and Pan. Lam and pan are servants of lucifer, la luce, the most high. Aleister Crowley was said to summon Lam on command. He would draw pictures of Lam while on heroin, and the demon resemebled a typical 4ft grey. This was b4 hollywood adopted the idea btw. To summarize, our leaders summon pan and lam using kabbalah, use dmt, serve lucifer, and use the teachings of crowley as their guide.


----------



## IronAddict (Aug 15, 2012)

bio-chem said:


> What's the over/under on Little Wing currently being on her period? anyone?



Oh, I see. You have to be on your period to not like romney, or his boy, robin?


----------



## IronAddict (Aug 15, 2012)

SFW said:


> Gb sr's nick at temple was Magog the demon. magog is a lower level demon, under the influence of Lam and Pan. Lam and pan are servants of lucifer, la luce, the most high. Aleister Crowley was said to summon Lam on command. He would draw pictures of Lam while on heroin, and the demon resemebled a typical 4ft grey. This was b4 hollywood adopted the idea btw. To summarize, our leaders summon pan and lam using kabbalah, use dmt, serve lucifer, and use the teachings of crowley as their guide.



Nice!


----------



## SFW (Aug 15, 2012)

IronAddict said:


> Nice!


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 16, 2012)

secdrl said:


> If the mods did their job, you'd be bant. You started it.



show me where i started it? read back through the thread. show me where i insulted anyone before they started talking down to me and being insulting and sexist.



Little Wing said:


>





secdrl said:


> Actually, you indirectly implied that people who vote republican have no brains and are stupid.



sorry, couldn't resist coming back just to point out how friggin stupid you really are. i never said republicans are stupid. i don't really care if a man is r or d only if he is a good and decent person, has some good ideas and moral fiber. 


YOU fucking identified YOURSELF with this saying cuz you know what a pos he is but are voting for him anyway JUST cuz he's not Obama.


----------



## Standard Donkey (Aug 16, 2012)

[video=youtube;h_f20ZDBj5k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=h_f20ZDBj5k[/video]


paul ryan is so mean tho


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 16, 2012)

if you dig up all the dirt, lies, crazy, and scary you can find on all of them you will be in not such a great mood and you will clearly see who has the biggest piles they should be ashamed of and we should be afraid of. cast your vote and try to live with it.


----------



## coolhandjames (Aug 16, 2012)

secdrl said:


> After the "visitor message" LW just sent me, I say 99-1 odds on period. That's a winning bet.



Tell me sec, which do you prefer for your time of the month... pads or tampons ?

You seem like you have heavy flow so I would go with the pads babe.


----------



## coolhandjames (Aug 16, 2012)

secdrl said:


> If the mods did their job, you'd be bant. You started it.


----------



## theCaptn' (Aug 16, 2012)

bio-chem said:


> If I don't send theCaptn' cawk pics within a week I'm banned!



^^^ this. Please mind your manners around the ladies, gents


----------



## Swiper (Aug 16, 2012)

*40 Points That Prove That Barack Obama And Mitt Romney Are Essentially The Same Candidate*





















*Michael Snyder*
The American Dream
Aug 16, 2012
What a depressing choice the American people are being presented with this year.  We are at a point in our history where we desperately need a change of direction in the White House, and we are guaranteed that we are not going to get it. 






The Democrats are running the worst president in American history, and the Republicans are running a guy who is almost a carbon copy of him.  The fact that about half the country is still supporting Barack Obama shows how incredibly stupid and corrupt the American people have become.  No American should have ever cast a single vote for Barack Obama for any political office under any circumstances.  He should never have even been the assistant superintendent in charge of janitorial supplies, much less the president of the United States.  The truth is that Barack Obama has done such a horrible job that he should immediately resign along with his entire cabinet.  But instead of giving us a clear choice, the Republicans nominated the Republican that was running that was most similar to Barack Obama.  In fact, I don?t think we have ever had two candidates for president that are so similar.  Yes, there are a few minor differences between them, but the truth is that we are heading into Obama?s second term no matter which one of them gets elected.  The mainstream media makes it sound like Obama and Romney are bitter ideological rivals but that is a giant lie.  Yeah, they are slinging lots of mud at each other, but they both play for the same team and the losers are going to be the American people.
Republicans are being told that they have ?no choice? but to vote for Romney because otherwise they will get another four years of Obama.
This ?lesser of two evils? theme comes out every four years.  We are told that we ?must? vote for a horrible candidate because the other guy is even worse.
Well, millions of Americans are getting sick of this routine.  Perhaps that is why it is being projected that as many as 90 millionAmericans of voting age will not vote this year.
Yes, Barack Obama has been so horrible as president that it is hard to put it into words.
But Mitt Romney would be just like Barack Obama. Those that are dreaming of a major change in direction if Romney is elected are going to be bitterly, bitterly disappointed.

The following are 40 ways that Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are essentially the same candidate?.
*1.* Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both supported TARP.
*2.* Mitt Romney supported Barack Obama?s ?economic stimulus? packages.
*3.* Mitt Romney says that Barack Obama?s bailout of the auto industry was actually his idea.
*4.* Neither candidate supports immediately balancing the federal budget.
*5.* They both believe in big government and they both have a track record of being big spenders while in office.
*6.* Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both fully support the Federal Reserve.
*7.* Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are both on record as saying that the president should not question the ?independence? of the Federal Reserve.
*8.* Barack Obama and Mitt Romney have both said that Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke did a good job during the last financial crisis.
*9.* Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both felt that Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke deserved to be renominated to a second term.
*10.* Both candidates oppose a full audit of the Federal Reserve.
*11.* Both candidates are on record as saying that U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has done a good job.
*12.* Barack Obama and Mitt Romney have both been big promoters of universal health care.
*13.* Mitt Romney was the one who developed the plan that Obamacare was later based upon.
*14.* Wall Street absolutely showers both candidates with campaign contributions.
*15.* Neither candidate wants to eliminate the income tax or the IRS.
*16.* Both candidates want to keep personal income tax rates at the exact same levels for the vast majority of Americans.
*17.* Both candidates are ?open? to the idea of imposing a Value Added Tax on the American people.
*18.* Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both believe that the TSA is doing a great job.
*19.* Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both supported the NDAA.
*20.* Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both supported the renewal of the Patriot Act.
*21.* Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both believe that the federal government should be able to indefinitely detain American citizens that are considered to be terrorists.
*22.* Both candidates believe that American citizens suspected of being terrorists can be killed by the president without a trial.
*23.* Barack Obama has not closed Guantanamo Bay like he promised to do, and Mitt Romney actually wants to double the number of prisoners held there.
*24.* Both candidates support the practice of ?extraordinary rendition?.
*25.* They both support the job-killing ?free trade? agenda of the global elite.
*26.* They both accuse each other of shipping jobs out of the country and both of them are right.
*27.* Both candidates are extremely soft on illegal immigration.
*28.* Neither candidate has any military experience.  This is the first time that this has happened in a U.S. election since 1944.
*29.* Both candidates earned a degree from Harvard University.
*30.* They both believe in the theory of man-made global warming.
*31.* Mitt Romney has said that he will support a ?cap and trade? carbon tax scheme (like the one Barack Obama wants) as longas the entire globe goes along with it.
*32.* Both candidates have a very long record of supporting strict gun control measures.
*33.* Both candidates have been pro-abortion most of their careers.  Mitt Romney?s ?conversion? to the pro-life cause has been questioned by many.  In fact, Mitt Romney has made millions on Bain Capital?s investment in a company called ?Stericycle? that incinerates aborted babies collected from family planning clinics.
*34.* Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both believe that the Boy Scout ban on openly gay troop leaders is wrong.
*35.* They both believe that a ?two state solution? will bring lasting peace between the Palestinians and Israel.
*36.* Both candidates have a history of nominating extremely liberal judges.
*37.* Like Barack Obama, Mitt Romney also plans to add ?signing statements? to bills when he signs them into law.
*38.* They both have a horrible record when it comes to job creation.
*39.* Both candidates believe that the president has the power to take the country to war without getting the approval of the U.S. Congress.
*40.* Both candidates plan to continue running up more government debt even though the U.S. government is already 16 trillion dollars in debt.

? 40 Points That Prove That Barack Obama And Mitt Romney Are Essentially The Same Candidate Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!


----------



## irish_2003 (Aug 16, 2012)

well then i guess the only thing to make them different is that BO is negro...Romney for the win...no affirmative action!!!


----------



## hoyle21 (Aug 16, 2012)

irish_2003 said:


> well then i guess the only thing to make them different is that BO is negro...Romney for the win...no affirmative action!!!



Romney is part spic.


----------



## Zaphod (Aug 16, 2012)

^


----------



## FUZO (Aug 16, 2012)

evbery time ive read this little wing posts I think of he's taking about Barry because what you post is about Barry.You and Lam will be very upset in a few months because Bo and dumbass Biden are going to lose thats going to be a fact. You can post all your piss and moan but Ryan was a great choice as a VP.


----------



## hypo_glycemic (Aug 16, 2012)




----------



## irish_2003 (Aug 16, 2012)

hoyle21 said:


> Romney is part spic.



which is not negro...


----------



## hypo_glycemic (Aug 16, 2012)

irish_2003 said:


> which is not negro...



U mad a blacks bro?


----------



## irish_2003 (Aug 16, 2012)

hypo_glycemic said:


> U mad a blacks bro?



i'm kinda glad BO became president, because now it's proven that Negros should be in the cotton fields and not in the White People House...


----------



## hypo_glycemic (Aug 16, 2012)

irish_2003 said:


> i'm kinda glad BO became president, because now it's proven that Negros should be in the cotton fields and not in the White People House...



Seriously? I mean "cotton fields"?

I hope when you --or if you have children--  they don't learn to be a bigot like you Irish, because that's all this country needs right now...is someone like you teaching hate.


----------



## hoyle21 (Aug 16, 2012)

irish_2003 said:


> which is not negro...



Nope, but I don't see too many Africans swimming the Atlantic to become illegal citizens....


----------



## secdrl (Aug 16, 2012)

hoyle21 said:


> Nope, but I don't see too many Africans swimming the Atlantic to become illegal citizens....



That's because blacks can't swim.


----------



## LAM (Aug 16, 2012)

FUZO said:


> evbery time ive read this little wing posts I think of he's taking about Barry because what you post is about Barry.You and Lam will be very upset in a few months because Bo and dumbass Biden are going to lose thats going to be a fact. You can post all your piss and moan but Ryan was a great choice as a VP.



doesn't effect my life at all, I have no kids and can retire any day I want to.  I work for fun.

but pretty much all the empirical data collected over the last century shows conservative economic policy does not benefit, labor, education or healthcare.  top down grants only increase inequality which slows economic growth, increases rent seeking, corrupts democracy and makes the economy generally more unstable.

and you love Ryan because you know about as much about the US economy as my 4 year old water dog...


----------



## irish_2003 (Aug 16, 2012)

secdrl said:


> That's because blacks can't swim.



Toby can't swim


----------



## Zaphod (Aug 16, 2012)

FUZO said:


> evbery time ive read this little wing posts I think of he's taking about Barry because what you post is about Barry.You and Lam will be very upset in a few months because Bo and dumbass Biden are going to lose thats going to be a fact. You can post all your piss and moan but Ryan was a great choice as a VP.



Someone have a moron to english translator?


----------



## hypo_glycemic (Aug 16, 2012)

Ryan is a fucking disaster!


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 16, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> wow. a new low for you.



you replied to my post two different times? hahah

A new low for you has to be the way you've gone on and on in this thread.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 17, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> this is why we need an honest and transparent administration that keeps its promises like the one we have now



transparency like this

Ann Romney: No More Tax Returns Will Be Released

Defying a longstanding trend among presidential candidates, the Romney campaign has only released a single -- and likely incomplete  -- tax return. Politicians and pundits from both sides of the aisle  have been pressuring Romney for weeks to disclose more of his tax  history, culminating with a claim from Senate Majority Leader  Harry Reid (D-Nev.) two weeks ago that he'd heard from an early  investor in Bain Capital that Romney didn?t pay any taxes for a decade.  Romney has denied that claim.


----------



## LAM (Aug 17, 2012)

hypo_glycemic said:


> Ryan is a fucking disaster!



you mean continuing going backwards to progress forward! LMFAO...

the continued loss of progressive era reforms and neo-liberal economic policy the past 30 years brought us the 2008 recession.  

if we get rid of all social protections, reduce the tax rates for corporations and capital to zero and get rid of all labor unions, minimum wages, the EPA and the U.S depart of edu.  this will surely catapult the US back to the #1 position.   because life for the average wage worker in the US during the late 1800's and early 1900's fucking rocked.  the petite bourgeoisie which would be the upper middle class (shop owners, barkeeps, lawyers, etc.) and then the lowest class the proletariat, this is the workers that sells labor for wages.

* haut bourgeoisie - owners of production 

* petite bourgeoise - shop owners, barkeeps, lawyers, gov workers, etc. - can never amass enough capital to join the next class up

* proletariat - wage laborer


Marx theorized that in the US and other wealthy country's at that time like France, Italy, etc. would see a decrease in the petite b as capitalism flourished (crony capitalism is what the US currently operates under).

"The lower strata of the middle class ? the small tradespeople, shopkeepers, and retired  tradesmen generally, the handicraftsmen and peasants ? all these sink gradually into the proletariat, partly because their diminutive capital does not suffice for the scale on which Modern Industry is carried on, and is swamped in the competition with the large capitalists, partly because their specialized skill is rendered worthless by new methods of production. Thus, the proletariat is recruited from all classes of the population."

Marx and Engels (1937) in the Manifesto of the Communist Party (pp. 24-25)

Empirical evidence on historical patterns of class mobility provides some broad support
for Marx?s claim. Drawing on census manuscripts and marriage records for Toulouse, France in
1830 and 1872, Aminzade and Hodson (1982) found that the petty bourgeoisie declined by 20%
as a percentage of the labor force over those four decades, with especially pronounced decreases
among small scale producers and master artisans. Generational mobility patterns suggested a
porous boundary between the entrepreneurial middle class and lower strata, with ―the sons of
petty bourgeois master craftsmen and shopkeepers end[ing] up predominantly in the working
class‖ (ibid: 451). Over the same period of time, there was little upward mobility into the ranks
of the petty bourgeoisie.

from page 9 of the Princeton report below

The threat posed to small business by the concentration of capital and returns to scale was
anticipated by Marx in the Communist Manifesto and was elaborated in subsequent treatments.
Owing to price competition that is driven by the scale of production, Marx argued that the
concentration of capital ―always ends in the ruin of many small capitalists, whose capitals [sic]
partly pass into the hands of their conquerors, and partly vanish completely‖ (1977: 777). This
threat was especially acute for the artisanal faction of the old middle classes, in which the
particularistic work relationships with journeymen and apprentices prevented master craftsmen
from assuming the role of modern capitalists (ibid: 1029-1030). In principle, however, the
argument extends to shopkeepers, service proprietors, and even independent professionals, whose
small enterprises could not compete with larger and more efficient bureaucratically-organized
firms. For Marx, the issue was compounded by the geographic integration of markets with
capitalist development (which he termed ―centralization‖), whereby ―capital grows to a huge
mass in a single hand in one place, because it has been lost by many in another place‖ (ibid: 777).
The centralization of capital also has potential implications for the benefits of banking
infrastructure and credit. Consistent with Stinchcombe?s structural theory, Marx acknowledged
that the credit system might serve as a boon to the entrepreneurial middle class in its early stages,
―drawing into the hands of individual or associated capitalists by invisible threads the money
resources, which lie scattered in larger or smaller amounts over the surface of society‖ (ibid:
778). But at later stages of capitalist development, he proposed, credit ―becomes a new and
terrible weapon in the battle for competition and is finally transformed into an enormous social
mechanism for the centralization of capitals‖ (ibid: 778). If local financial infrastructure is
indeed critical to the fate of petty bourgeois enterprise, as we have argued previously, then this
transition to geographically centralized sources of capital would likely prove detrimental to
middling entrepreneurs. Marx thus anticipated subsequent claims (e.g., Hilferding 1981 [1910])
that the developing banking sector would tend to become unresponsive to (and even undermine)
small business ventures, ultimately serving to enhance the centralization and concentration of
capital in large corporations instead."

and page 11

*it's a good thing that none of this sounds familiar or the US economy could really be fucked.  I bet if we increase inequality in income and wealth EVEN MORE that will surely turn the economy around*

http://www.princeton.edu/csso/working-papers/WP4.pdf


----------



## theCaptn' (Aug 17, 2012)

irish_2003 said:


> i'm kinda glad BO became president, because now it's proven that Negros should be in the cotton fields and not in the White People House...



Just like the Irish belong in the potato field


----------



## irish_2003 (Aug 17, 2012)

i'm not concerned with what romney does with his taxes, i'm more concerned with what obama is doing with our taxes


----------



## hoyle21 (Aug 17, 2012)

What's really sad is that we have a neighbor to the north who has completely turned themselves around.   I remember when the Canadian dollar was half of the American dollar.  

They increased taxes on the wealthy, closed loopholes, and trimmed back entitlements.


----------



## NVRBDR (Aug 17, 2012)

> LAM said:
> 
> 
> > you mean continuing going backwards to progress forward!
> ...


----------



## Dale Mabry (Aug 17, 2012)

irish_2003 said:


> i'm not concerned with what romney does with his taxes, i'm more concerned with what obama is doing with our taxes



BO spends basically the same percentage on each part of the budget as the asshole before him did, and Romney will do the same.  Smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors.


----------



## Gregzs (Aug 17, 2012)

Aug. 16: Why I'm Not Buying the Romney Rally - NYTimes.com

ug. 16: Why I?m Not Buying the Romney Rally
By NATE SILVER
At the political futures market Intrade, shares in Mitt Romney have been a hot commodity this week. As of early Thursday evening, the bettors there gave Mr. Romney a 43.5 percent chance of winning November's election. That's up from about 39 percent late last week, before Mr. Romney's announcement that Representative Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin would be his running mate.

Our forecast model has usually been more bearish on Mr. Romney's chances than Intrade - but it also shows him gaining ground over the past several days. It now gives him a 31.3 percent chance of winning the Electoral College, up from 26.7 percent late last week.

So what's my gripe with Intrade? 

The issue is simply this: in past elections, candidates have typically gotten a "bounce" in the polls after naming their running mates. When I use the term bounce, what I mean is that they get a temporary boost to their numbers which then fades. But while the bounce is under way, the polls will overrate their standing somewhat.

The forecast model is not making any sort of adjustment for the effect that naming a running mate could have on the polls. Neither, apparently, are the bettors at Intrade. But that may be a mistake.
What if we did include a vice-presidential bounce adjustment? 

If so, it would probably be calculated as follows: since the average vice-presidential announcement has produced a four-point bounce in the polls, subtract four points from any poll conducted in between the naming of the running mate and the party convention. In order words, we'd subtract four points from Mr. Romney's numbers in any poll conducted since he named Mr. Ryan on Saturday.

If I do that and run the model again, it has a rather pessimistic forecast for Mr. Romney - giving him just a 24 percent chance of winning the Electoral College, rather than 31.3 percent as in the official version. 
The intuition behind this is simply that, under this theory, it's a bad sign for Mr. Romney that Mr. Ryan has produced a below-average bounce so far. Among the polls that allow for a direct comparison, Mr. Romney has gained an average of about one percentage point since his selection of Mr. Ryan.

So which version of the model is right? I don't know. Until recent years, vice-presidential nominees were often named at the conventions. In other cases, they were named just a few days before, leaving a very short window of time for polling to measure a potential vice-presidential bounce as something separate and distinct from the convention bounce itself. 

There's enough data to conclude that there probably is a vice-presidential bounce - but not enough, in my view, to know what sort of mathematical function you'd want to come up with to adjust for it, whether we might expect the bounce to be smaller or larger under different circumstances, and so forth. Any choice you make concerning the vice-presidential bounce is inherently going to be speculative.

Here at FiveThirtyEight, I have an easy way out of that dilemma. I can say "here's what the model accounts for, and here's what it doesn't account for - and here's the forecast conditional upon those assumptions." If there's a potentially important piece of context that our model is not accounting for, we can then discuss that separately.

If you're putting down money on a forecast instead of publishing a statistical model, your task is both harder and easier in certain respects. On the one hand, you're free to make a mental adjustment for some potentially important piece of context in your assessment of the odds, without having to articulate some sort of mathematical function to represent it. On the other hand, if you don't make such an adjustment, other people in the market potentially will - and you'll lose money to them if their hypothesis about it is right.

Personally, I don't think there's been much in the polling data this week that should substantially change your view of the race. Mr. Romney has certainly gotten some encouraging numbers this week, particularly in state-level polls. It's surprising how much even a one-point shift in the polls can change the way that the race looks and feels. 

But from what we can tell, most other candidates have gotten larger bounces after naming their running mates. My gut-level view is that these facts read slightly negatively for Mr. Romney on balance - but I'm not confident enough about it that I'd want to venture much money on that conclusion.

If I were making a bet this week, instead, the basis for it would be whatever hypothesis I had about the impact that Mr. Ryan will have on the race in the long term, which a few days of polling won't tell us very much about. Or perhaps I'd look at the economic news, which has been slightly favorable to President Obama this week.

*Thursday's Polls
*
On Thursday, there were new polls in from Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania - and perhaps most important, Wisconsin. Most of this data postdates the announcement of Mr. Ryan.
CNN's poll of Wisconsin gave Mr. Obama a four-point lead there; this is CNN's first poll of the state, so there are no trendlines for comparison. This poll, however, is worse for Mr. Obama than it looks. It was a survey of registered voters, not likely voters, and registered voter polls typically exaggerate the Democratic candidate's standing by about two percentage points.

The Rasmussen Reports poll of Wisconsin, which was conducted among likely voters, had Mr. Romney one percentage point ahead instead. But this one requires an asterisk, too. Although Rasmussen Reports polls are almost always a bit Republican-leaning, that's been especially true in Wisconsin, where they've normally had numbers that are three or four points more favorable to Mr. Romney than the average of other polling firms that were conducting surveys there at the same time.

Adjust the Rasmussen numbers upward for Mr. Obama, and the CNN poll downward for him, and it looks as though Mr. Obama might win by about two percentage points if an election were held in Wisconsin today. I wouldn't quite use the term "tossup" to describe the state - particularly if Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan are in the midst of a modest but temporary bounce - but it has become much more essential to the electoral math, and now rates as the fourth most important state in our tipping-point calculus, behind Ohio, Virginia and Florida.

Rasmussen Reports also gave Mr. Romney a two-point lead in Florida, making this the second consecutive poll to show him ahead there. Both polling firms had also shown Mr. Romney with a lead before the announcement of Mr. Ryan, but there's certainly not much evidence yet for the idea that Mr. Ryan will somehow be especially damaging to Mr. Romney there.

The Michigan and Pennsylvania polls were complements to each other in an odd way. In Pennsylvania, a poll from Franklin & Marshall College put Mr. Obama five points ahead there - not a terrible number for him, but poor as compared to their prior survey of the state, which had him up by 11. Mr. Obama also had a five-point lead in a Mitchell Research poll of Michigan - not a great number for him, but better as compared to their survey in July, which had given Mr. Romney a one-point lead instead.

Looking at the trendlines in polls is important - but in the case of the prior Franklin & Marshall poll of Pennsylvania and the previous Mitchell Research poll of Michigan, their numbers had been modest outliers relative to the consensus in those states. So we may be seeing reversion to the mean as much as any actual movement. Nevertheless, Michigan's ranking declined on our list of tipping-point states; it was displaced in the top 10 by North Carolina.


----------



## NoviceAAS (Aug 17, 2012)

Luxx said:


> Do you really feel they will restore America?Obummer said the same shit and he's done nothing! I will not vote for obummer but I'm torn on Romney.



  Your right about Obama being a bit of a bummer, but think about why and think about what has changed since he got in.
  Not very much in my opinion. To me it is simply a carry over from the term before him.

  But who would be more likely to rock the boat, a new pres who wants that second term, or a sitting pres who has no more elections to win ?

   Someone needs to tell the country the truth, that we need to return to the more balanced tax rates of the 1990's


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## NoviceAAS (Aug 17, 2012)

Ok so like I asked another member, who is more likely to "rock the boat" and make any change at all, a new pres who wants a second term, or a sitting pres with no more elections in his future ?


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## Decker (Aug 19, 2012)

Mitt Romney (the indecisive) has become notorious for changing  directions. He has stood firmly on both sides of nearly every important  issue. Depending on his audience, he has been:
 For and against raising the minimum wage
For and against stem cell research
For and against women?s choice
For and against health care mandates
For and against Romneycare
For and against Ronald Reagan (really!)
For and against (and for, again) a pathway to citizenship for immigrants
For and against Bush?s tax cuts
For and against a ban on assault rifles
A believer and non-believer in the dangers of global warming
A signer and non-signer of the Americans for Tax Reform pledge

*In all cases where his decision would affect the economy, he has turned toward the 1% and against the 99%.

–The indecisive and the deceptive join forces to increase the gap between the 1% and the 99% ? #Monetary Sovereignty – Mitchell

*


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## bio-chem (Aug 19, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> transparency like this
> 
> Ann Romney: No More Tax Returns Will Be Released
> 
> Defying a longstanding trend among presidential candidates, the Romney campaign has only released a single -- and likely incomplete  -- tax return. Politicians and pundits from both sides of the aisle  have been pressuring Romney for weeks to disclose more of his tax  history, culminating with a claim from Senate Majority Leader  Harry Reid (D-Nev.) two weeks ago that he'd heard from an early  investor in Bain Capital that Romney didn?t pay any taxes for a decade.  Romney has denied that claim.


This type of stuff blows me away. Romney released a complete 2010, and all the 2011 info that he has. which is what is required by law. he has paid taxes according to what is required by law. the same as you, or I would in that tax bracket, or any other. both romney and obama are part of the 1% even though romney has held a job outside of government employment while obama hasn't. how many guys can say they are multi-millionaires while they have spent their entire careers in government employ? hmmm. 

I can't believe Harry Reid can get away with that bogus fucking claim. holy shit. i heard from a guy that told me obama is a cross dresser. i can't say who i heard it from, but i believe it to be the truth


----------



## tallguy34 (Aug 19, 2012)

secdrl said:


> Quote from the Reagan years: "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?"
> 
> Whatever your answer, you'll know who to vote for.



My answer is.... FUCKING HELL NO I'M NOT!!!

Guess I know where my vote is going! Lol.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 19, 2012)

i wonder if any candidate has ever acting like a complete gentleman polite and respectful of his opponents during a campaign. would be so shocking he might win.


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## GearsMcGilf (Aug 19, 2012)

That's not how you win.  You have to get your hands dirty.  Obama will be calling Romney's wife a filthy whore and Romney will be calling Michelle Aunt Jemima before it's all over.  I can't wait!


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## Little Wing (Aug 19, 2012)

and we really shouldn't want our leaders to act that way. man what a mess. how did we get here?


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## troubador (Aug 19, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> man what a mess. how did we get here?



By letting it happen. Politicians are a reflection of what the people want whether the people realize it or not. Everyone on the red team knows Romney is a piece of shit but that's who they're going to vote for of their own free will. They're afraid to leave the herd. They're not voting for Romney the person, they're voting for the herd.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 19, 2012)

troubador said:


> By letting it happen. Politicians are a reflection of what the people want whether the people realize it or not. Everyone on the red team knows Romney is a piece of shit but that's who they're going to vote for of their own free will. They're afraid to leave the herd. They're not voting for Romney the person, they're voting for the herd.



i think they aren't voting FOR Romney so much as AGAINST Obama. i think under Romney's watch  the poor will become third world poor,  the middle class will become the new poor, and the elite will become more powerful and heartless.


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## secdrl (Aug 19, 2012)

Individuals go to great lengths to obtain or preserve power.


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## Little Wing (Aug 19, 2012)

yes but we the people are SUPPOSED to have the power.


----------



## troubador (Aug 19, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> i think they aren't voting FOR Romney so much as AGAINST Obama. i think under Romney's watch  the poor will become third world poor,  the middle class will become the new poor, and the elite will become more powerful and heartless.



So Romney becoming president is going to make the elite more heartless? Maybe we should elect little Cindy Lou Who.


----------



## hoyle21 (Aug 19, 2012)

tallguy34 said:


> My answer is.... FUCKING HELL NO I'M NOT!!!
> 
> Guess I know where my vote is going! Lol.



Really?   I find that hard to believe.   I think most Americans are better off in 2012, than we were in 2008.

Jobs are more plentiful, the stock market is higher, homes are worth more etc etc


----------



## hoyle21 (Aug 19, 2012)

troubador said:


> By letting it happen. Politicians are a reflection of what the people want whether the people realize it or not. Everyone on the red team knows Romney is a piece of shit but that's who they're going to vote for of their own free will. They're afraid to leave the herd. They're not voting for Romney the person, they're voting for the herd.



Nicely put.


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## irish_2003 (Aug 19, 2012)

in 2008 a million people went to the Obama inauguration speech...only 14 of them called in sick to work to attend...


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## Little Wing (Aug 19, 2012)

the whole cut welfare group is overlooking something important. where does that money end up? the landlords they pay rent to etc they aren't on welfare and are going to be hit hard by cuts. maybe be careful what you wish for is good advice. jobs need to be in place first so person a that you hate can still pay person b that you don't.


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## secdrl (Aug 19, 2012)

Seriously? People are better off in now than in 2008??!! We have the largest # of people of government assistance in history. The stock market is rebounding?! What? Homes are not increasing in price, it is still very much a buyers market. I read an article on yahoo news yesterday that said people were losing thousands and millions trying to sell their homes.

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012


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## Little Wing (Aug 19, 2012)

troubador said:


> So Romney becoming president is going to make the elite more heartless? Maybe we should elect little Cindy Lou Who.



maybe i should have said more parasitic.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 19, 2012)

i'm not an expert but it seems to me if the welfare money dries up before those on it have jobs the income so many people not on welfare MADE off that welfare money is going to dry up as well.

 if person a can't pay rent, buy food, pay a doctor it is NOT just going to effect them. the middle class seems to not be making out so well on this deal if you look at it that way. 

i really don't think any money saved is going to be given back to the working stiff in any way shape or form. tax break or any other way. 

everyone wants Romney to drive it up the ass of the guy on welfare and it doesn't seem anyone realizes just how deep that dick is going to go if people aren't working first.

welfare recipients don't save that money they spend it.


----------



## LAM (Aug 19, 2012)

secdrl said:


> Seriously? People are better off in now than in 2008??!! We have the largest # of people of government assistance in history. The stock market is rebounding?! What? Homes are not increasing in price, it is still very much a buyers market. I read an article on yahoo news yesterday that said people were losing thousands and millions trying to sell their homes.
> 
> ROMNEY/RYAN 2012



if you think things are bad now....hold that thought for another 20 years and 2012 will look like good times.  the US economy hasn't been "good" since the 60's.  the expansion of credit and debt since the 80's is nothing except false prosperity.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 19, 2012)

luckily when i moved to vegas in 1979 i was 18 and met a young couple that owed over 20 grand. to me that just seemed fucking stupid so i never got in over my head. if you can't pay cash work harder.


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## GearsMcGilf (Aug 19, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> i'm not an expert but it seems to me if the welfare money dries up before those on it have jobs the income so many people not on welfare MADE off that welfare money is going to dry up as well.
> 
> if person a can't pay rent, buy food, pay a doctor it is NOT just going to effect them. the middle class seems to not be making out so well on this deal if you look at it that way.
> 
> ...




I haven't heard Romney talk about cutting welfare.  He's just against reversing the work requirement passed by the Clinton admin, whicn Barry is trying to do  now. 

 Things do seem to be improving modestly right now.  In 2008/2009, the banking industry was imploding.  I spent 14 months trying to find a new gig as a commerical lender.  I could always get interviews because of my local connections, but that was it, just an interview.  No one was hiring lenders because the banks weren't lending.  They were busy trying to assess their own damage and figure out a way to survive and many didn't.  Now, most of the shit has been worked out and the banks that were failing have failed and the ones that survived are doing much better and starting to lend again, albiet much more cautiously as they should have been all along.  Once the availability of credit has had time to matriculate to business owners, they will eventually start to hire again.  It's just gonna take time.   But, they also have to know what to expect taxwise in order to plan ahead.  There's a lot of uncertainty right now and the fact that we haven't had a budget in over 1000 days isn't helping.  The modest improvement seems to be more of a natural correction as opposed to anything the govt has been doing.

People also keep bitching about Paul Ryan "ending medicare as we know it."  But, the reality is medicare as we know it isn't sustainable and has to be modified or medicare as we know it won't exist in 10 years.  The Obama admin cut $716B out of it and they claim it wasn't cuts but "savings", arguing that the $716B cuts were an elemination of payments for "inefficiencies" on the part of providers.  That is, providers were being paid for unnecessary services.  The medicare actuaries have even said that providers will no longer be profitable by 2020 with these cuts.  The admin fires back by saying that won't be the case "if they change the way they are doing business."  IOW, it's $716B in medicare cuts no matter how you spin it.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 19, 2012)

Romney - Cut Social Security, Medicare - YouTube

if you paid into ss all your life n he raises retirement age from 65 to 70 the average person loses 60,000 dollars. or hopefully dies before they collect a dime?


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 19, 2012)

i think at this point we have to agree than in an election everyone just lies their fool head off.


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## irish_2003 (Aug 19, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> Romney - Cut Social Security, Medicare - YouTube
> 
> if you paid into ss all your life n he raises retirement age from 65 to 70 the average person loses 60,000 dollars. or hopefully dies before they collect a dime?



ss was never supposed to be a 20-30 year retirement pay and primary income for retirees...people used to only be on it for 10-15 years...raising the retirement age to be more inline with the longer lifespan makes perfect sense to be able to keep it going...


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 19, 2012)

maybe they should just pay everyone back the exact amount they paid in. and pay politicians and government workers minimum wage with the same benefits most minimum wage jobs come with... fuck all.


----------



## troubador (Aug 19, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> Romney - Cut Social Security, Medicare - YouTube
> 
> if you paid into ss all your life n he raises retirement age from 65 to 70 the average person loses 60,000 dollars. or hopefully dies before they collect a dime?



Something has to happen. It's going broke in about 10 years. It makes sense if people are living longer to move the retirement age back. I'm sure the leftist solution is to just raise the money by taking from those who were successful and giving it to those who did a shitty job of planning for retirement.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 19, 2012)

Stephen King: I'm rich, tax me | Books | guardian.co.uk

 Tough shit for you guys, because I'm not tired of talking about it.  I've known rich people, and why not, since I'm one of them? The majority  would rather douse their dicks with lighter fluid, strike a match, and  dance around singing 'Disco Inferno' than pay one more cent in taxes to  Uncle Sugar."


 ... the rich, he believes, are "hallowed" in America. "Don't ask me why;  I don't get it either, since most rich people are as boring as old,  dead dog shit," writes King. "I guess some of this mad right-wing love  comes from the idea that in America, anyone can become a Rich Guy if he  just works hard and saves his pennies. Mitt Romney  has said, in effect, 'I'm rich and I don't apologize for it.' Nobody  wants you to, Mitt. What some of us want ? those who aren't blinded by a  lot of bullshit persiflage thrown up to mask the idea that rich folks  want to keep their damn money ? is for you to acknowledge that you  couldn't have made it in America without America. That you were  fortunate enough to be born in a country where upward mobility is  possible (a subject upon which Barack Obama can speak with the authority  of experience), but* where the channels making such upward mobility  possible are being increasingly clogged. That it's not fair to ask the  middle class to assume a disproportionate amount of the tax burden. Not  fair? It's un-fucking-American is what it is."*King says it  is a "practical necessity and a moral imperative" that "those who have  received much must be obligated to pay ... in the same proportion", or  the "first real ripples of discontent" seen in the Occupy protests "will just be the beginning".


----------



## LAM (Aug 19, 2012)

troubador said:


> Something has to happen. It's going broke in about 10 years. It makes sense if people are living longer to move the retirement age back. I'm sure the leftist solution is to just raise the money by taking from those who were successful and giving it to those who did a shitty job of planning for retirement.



like those in finance that have seen 99% of the gains in income the past decade?  where you asleep during the aftermath of the housing market crash when the country found out about the fraud committed by the ratings agency's?  where you asleep when the LIBOR scandal broke the news?  and the GAO report which showed the 16T in secret bailouts?

still in denial are you?

it's called 30+ years of expanding the money supply

St. Louis Adjusted Monetary Base (BASE) - FRED - St. Louis Fed


----------



## Gregzs (Aug 19, 2012)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/o...?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120819
[h=1]Beware a Beautiful Calm[/h][h=6]By MAUREEN DOWD[/h]WASHINGTON        

WHAT happens when you realize you are the machine you?re raging against?        

Tom Morello, the Grammy-winning, Harvard-educated guitarist for the metal rap band Rage Against the Machine, punctured Paul Ryan?s pretensions to cool in a Rolling Stone essay rejecting R&R (Romney ?n? Ryan) as R&R (rock ?n? roll).        

?He is the embodiment of the machine that our music has been raging against for two decades,? Morello writes, adding: ?I clearly see that Ryan has a whole lotta ?rage? in him: A rage against women, a rage against immigrants, a rage against workers, a rage against gays, a rage against the poor, a rage against the environment. Basically, the only thing he?s not raging against is the privileged elite he?s groveling in front of for campaign contributions.?        

In my experience, when a presidential candidate needs some outside force to animate him ? Michael Dukakis needed Kitty, Bob Dole needed C-Span, Willard needs Paul ? it spells doom.        

The fresh Gen X vice-presidential contender ? like Sarah Palin, he favors the exclamation ?awesome? ? has had mixed reviews in his debutante cotillion.        

Howard Fineman wrote in The Huffington Post that ?Ryan turns out, upon closer inspection, not to be a purifying ideologue, but rather a young, power-hungry, ladder-climbing trimmer.? The self-styled deficit cutter backed W.?s deficit-exploding agenda, and the tut-tutting critic of the Obama stimulus grabbed for the president?s stimulus money.        

Neocons and Tea Partyers, however, continued to rhapsodize. Grover Norquist told Bloomberg?s Al Hunt that Ryan would be the Dick Cheney of economic and tax policy. And that?s a compliment.        

The comparison is apt. Ryan looks like a bonus Romney son, as Dan Quayle did with Bush senior. Republicans find the tableau of two rich white guys ? same shirts, different generations ? comforting. With W. and Cheney, the usual order switched and the vice-presidential candidate played the role of surrogate dad.        

Where Ryan is like Cheney is in tone: at first blush, the Wisconsin congressman emanates a thoughtful, reassuring reasonableness, talking to reporters and sometimes Democratic lawmakers. Cheney?s deep voice, like the headmaster of a boys? prep school, seemed moderate and measured, too, at first. But it is deceptive. Both men are way, way out there.        

It is, to use a phrase coined by French doctors, la belle indiff?rence, or ?the beautiful calm? of hysterical people. But the closer you look, the uglier it gets.        

Just as Cheney, hunter of small birds and old friends, once defended cop-killer bullets and plastic guns that could slip through airport metal detectors, so Ryan, deer hunter, championed concealed guns and curtailing the background check waiting period from three days to one.        

Just as Cheney was always willing to cough up money to guerrillas in Nicaragua and Angola but not to poor women whose lives were endangered by their pregnancies, so Ryan helped pay for W.?s endless wars while pushing endless anti-abortion bills, like one undercutting an exemption from the ban on using federal money for abortions in cases of rape or incest, and narrowing the definition of rape to ?forcible rape.?        

What on earth is nonforcible rape? It?s like saying nonlethal murder. Why redefine acts of aggression against women as non-acts of aggression?        

Even Catholic bishops, who had to be dragged toward compassion in the pedophilia scandal, were dismayed at how uncompassionate Ryan?s budget was.        

Mitt Romney expects his running mate to help deliver the Catholic vote and smooth over any discomfort among Catholics about Mormonism. (This is the first major-party ticket to go Protestant-less.) Yet after Ryan claimed his budget was shaped by his faith, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops deemed it immoral.        

?A just spending bill cannot rely on disproportionate cuts in essential services to poor and vulnerable persons,? the bishops wrote in a letter to Congress.        

The Jesuits were even more tart, with one group writing to Ryan that ?Your budget appears to reflect the values of your favorite philosopher, Ayn Rand, rather than the Gospel of Jesus Christ.?        

The nuns-on-the-bus also rapped the knuckles of the former altar boy who now takes his three kids to Mass. As Sister Simone Campbell, executive director of the Catholic social justice group Network, told MSNBC?s Lawrence O?Donnell, it?s sad that a Catholic doesn?t understand that ?we need to have each other?s backs. Only wealthy people can ever begin to pretend that they can live in a gated community all by themselves.?        

Even Ryan?s former parish priest in Janesville weighed in. Father Stephen Umhoefer told the Center for Media and Democracy, ?You can?t tell somebody that in 10 years your economic situation is going to be just wonderful because meanwhile your kids may starve to death.?        

Beyond the even-keeled Ryan mien lurks full-tilt virulence. A moderate demeanor is not a sign of a moderate view of the world.


----------



## troubador (Aug 19, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> That you were  fortunate enough to be born in a country where upward mobility is  possible (a subject upon which Barack Obama can speak with the authority  of experience), but* where the channels making such upward mobility  possible are being increasingly clogged.
> *



Oh, so you're for ending social security all together? That's a good point, folks on social security are no longer contributing to wealth creation and are simply blocking capital that otherwise would be put to good use. Seems a bit harsh though.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 19, 2012)

troubador said:


> Oh, so you're for ending social security all together? That's a good point, folks on social security are no longer contributing to wealth creation and are simply blocking capital that otherwise would be put to good use. Seems a bit harsh though.



i think the channels being clogged would be not being to earn a decent wage for a days labor. like i said, why not put politicians and government employees on minimum wage and see how fast minimum wage rises?


----------



## LAM (Aug 19, 2012)

troubador said:


> Oh, so you're for ending social security all together? That's a good point, folks on social security are no longer contributing to wealth creation and are simply blocking capital that otherwise would be put to good use. Seems a bit harsh though.



you've got things ass backwards.  monies like social security go back into the active economy when they are spent, it's the accumulated wealth that sits idle that does nothing at all for the active economy.


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## FUZO (Aug 20, 2012)

If any you butt sniffer Liberals think this country is better in 4 years since jerk off has been in office then you have been sniffing to much dirty ass and have a issue within yourself..And for all you members that say Barry will win and by a landslide you are very wrong and havent been listening he will lose thats going to be a fact.


----------



## LAM (Aug 20, 2012)

FUZO said:


> If any you butt sniffer Liberals think this country is better in 4 years since jerk off has been in office then you have been sniffing to much dirty ass and have a issue within yourself..And for all you members that say Barry will win and by a landslide you are very wrong and havent been listening he will lose thats going to be a fact.



Economics 101:

recessions after periods of weak economic expansions are longer and more severe.  the recession of 2008 came after the weakest period of economic expansion sine WWII and it was of short duration roughly 7 years.  all of the gains in income from 2001-2008 went to the top 1%.  any gains in income for the working class was consumed by either rising energy costs, food or healthcare.  

2000-2010 was an entire decade lost in terms of income along with the 40% of total working class wealth lost in home.  that 9T in home wealth was transferred to bond holders.  recessions always cause permanent transfers of wealth.  home values in the 2001 recession did not decrease so there was no home wealth lost there, only monies lost in stocks.

anybody that doesn't understand how the post-2001 levels of consumption were unsustainable is hopeless in their understanding of the current economic crisis and just how long it's effects are going to last, which is decades...


----------



## Zaphod (Aug 20, 2012)

FUZO said:


> If any you butt sniffer Liberals think this country is better in 4 years since jerk off has been in office then you have been sniffing to much dirty ass and have a issue within yourself..And for all you members that say Barry will win and by a landslide you are very wrong and havent been listening he will lose thats going to be a fact.



I hope you don't speak like you write.  Anyone you talk to will think you're the moron that you are.


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## IronAddict (Aug 20, 2012)

FUZO said:


> If any you butt sniffer Liberals think this country is better in 4 years since jerk off has been in office then you have been sniffing to much dirty ass and have a issue within yourself..And for all you members that say Barry will win and by a landslide you are very wrong and havent been listening he will lose thats going to be a fact.




Since that republican court jester left office, sure life is better. And how can anyone sincerely say otherwise. 

Unless you are the brainwashed and you accuse others of being a sycophant.


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## BBPowder (Aug 20, 2012)

I'm for Romney!


bbpowder@securenym.net

Ask for price and product list!!!


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## teezhay (Aug 20, 2012)

I can't identify one substantive reason to vote for Romney, that isn't just derivative of some generic talking point-based criticism of Obama. Funny enough, neither can Romney supporters.


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## BBPowder (Aug 20, 2012)

teezhay said:


> I can't identify one substantive reason to vote for Romney, that isn't just derivative of some generic talking point-based criticism of Obama. Funny enough, neither can Romney supporters.



Like Obama, I want change! Tired of this national debt. Maybe a business man can fix it. Maybe. 


bbpowder@securenym.net

Ask for price and product list!!!


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 20, 2012)

BBPowder said:


> Like Obama, I want change! Tired of this national debt. Maybe a business man can fix it. Maybe.
> 
> 
> bbpowder@securenym.net
> ...



he didn't get rich by helping people. he got rich destroying jobs, profiting from medicare fraud, etc. 

How Did Mitt Romney Get So Obscenely Rich? Robert Reich Explains - YouTube


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## Little Wing (Aug 20, 2012)

a vote for romney and ryan is a vote to get yourself buggered because you didn't think things through.


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## IronAddict (Aug 20, 2012)

I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but did anybody catch bill maher this week ? 

Further proof these MerFer's come in here and take our ideas, cause he used my joke about romney and his boy robin.


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## vicious 13 (Aug 20, 2012)

Romney is Mormon?


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## BBPowder (Aug 20, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> he didn't get rich by helping people. he got rich destroying jobs, profiting from medicare fraud, etc.
> 
> How Did Mitt Romney Get So Obscenely Rich? Robert Reich Explains - YouTube



He got rich by risking his money and investing it. He rolled the dice and won. 

I'll demonstrate the risk he took. Send me a check for $100,000. Maybe you get a return on your investment, maybe you lose it all. 


bbpowder@securenym.net

Ask for price and product list!!!


----------



## IronAddict (Aug 20, 2012)

vicious 13 said:


> Romney is Mormon?




Yeah!

And how can a so called christian country even remotely take this guy seriously ?

Oh, its the voter that just sees an R.

I'm no christian and I don't.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 20, 2012)

BBPowder said:


> He got rich by risking his money and investing it. He rolled the dice and won.
> 
> I'll demonstrate the risk he took. Send me a check for $100,000. Maybe you get a return on your investment, maybe you lose it all.
> 
> ...



no. he risked OTHER PEOPLE'S money.


----------



## vicious 13 (Aug 20, 2012)

I wouldn't call myself a Christian but I went to a Christian highschool and have talked w tons of Mormons I'd never vote for one I can barely take them seriously


----------



## Zaphod (Aug 20, 2012)

BBPowder said:


> He got rich by risking his money and investing it. He rolled the dice and won.
> 
> I'll demonstrate the risk he took. Send me a check for $100,000. Maybe you get a return on your investment, maybe you lose it all.
> 
> ...



He didn't risk any of his own money.  Rather than on his own merit he used his family name to get there.


----------



## IronAddict (Aug 21, 2012)

And when asked about that fool akins comment about rape, romney simply said,


thats why we mormons wear magic underwear!

I think that's what he was referring too.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 21, 2012)

IronAddict said:


> And when asked about that fool akins comment about rape, romney simply said,
> 
> 
> thats why we mormons wear magic underwear!
> ...



bio chem is gonna kill you for that.


----------



## IronAddict (Aug 21, 2012)

Phuq bio chem and this mormon bastard that wants to be prez.

You gotta be a gd damn retard to vote for that fucker...

or an idealist.

Oh wait, thats the whole republican base!


----------



## Swiper (Aug 21, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> Romney - Cut Social Security, Medicare - YouTube
> 
> if you paid into ss all your life n he raises retirement age from 65 to 70 the average person loses 60,000 dollars. or hopefully dies before they collect a dime?



you're absolutely right, Romney will do anything to strengthen and preserve a huge govt program like SS, I wouldn't expect anything less from a big govt republican.


----------



## teezhay (Aug 21, 2012)

BBPowder said:


> Like Obama, I want change! Tired of this national debt. Maybe a business man can fix it. Maybe.
> 
> 
> bbpowder@securenym.net
> ...



Wow. You are a political strategist's wet dream.

"Hey, so I know our candidate has minimal experience in public service, having only spent a term as governor, before returning to his position with a for-profit company that specializes in saddling its clients with debt, pushing them into bankruptcy, and forcing the government/taxpayers to foot the bill..._but let's just say that gives him experience in running the entire federal government_. It doesn't make *any fucking sense whatsoever *if you think about it, but let's just hope there's idiots out there  stupid enough not to think before they believe shit. Good? Good."


----------



## Swiper (Aug 21, 2012)

teezhay said:


> Wow. You are a political strategist's wet dream.
> 
> "Hey, so I know our candidate has minimal experience in public service, having only spent a term as governor, before returning to his position with a for-profit company that specializes in saddling its clients with debt, pushing them into bankruptcy, and forcing the government/taxpayers to foot the bill..._but let's just say that gives him experience in running the entire federal government_. It doesn't make *any fucking sense whatsoever *if you think about it, but let's just hope there's idiots out there  stupid enough not to think before they believe shit. Good? Good."



the people elected a "community organizer"  look how good that turned out.


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Aug 21, 2012)

There are plenty of cases where deep down the rapee actually wanted the rape and found it to be an exciting and pleasurable experience.  In these cases, the "victim" often climaxes multiple times during the encounter.  What I hear is that they put up a fight initially.  But, as it progresses, they stop fighting and just kind of  go with it, basically cooperating.  That's what a _friend _told me anyway.  I suppose that's what he meant by an illigitimate rape as it becomes more or less consensual in the end.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 21, 2012)

reminds me of death raft. people panicked and left a ship that was caught up on a sand bar and ended up eating each other while adrift at sea. if you don't think things can get worse guess again.


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Aug 21, 2012)

We didn't think we could do any worse 4 years ago.   But, at least he hasn't started any new trillion $ wars.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 21, 2012)

Social Security Disaster - Walter E. Williams - Page 1

snippets from the article


The very first Social Security check went to Ida May Fuller in 1940. She paid just $24.75 in Social Security taxes but collected a total of $22,888.92 in benefits, getting back all she put into Social Security in a month. According to a Congressional Research Service report titled "Social Security Reform" (October 2002), by Geoffrey Kollmann and Dawn Nuschler, workers who retired in 1980 at age 65 got back all they put into Social Security, plus interest, in 2.8 years. Workers who retired at age 65 in 2002 will have to wait a total of 16.9 years to break even. For those retiring in 2020, it will take 20.9 years. *Workers entering the labor force today won't live long enough to get back even half of what they will put into Social Security.* Social Security faces Ponzi's problem, not enough new "investors." In 1940, there were 160 workers paying into Social Security per retiree; today there are only 2.9 and falling.         

President Barack Obama said in a CBS interview, *"I cannot guarantee that those checks go out on Aug. 3 if we haven't resolved this issue, because there may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it." Here's how we reveal the trust fund lie: According to the Social Security Administration, it has a trust fund with $2.6 trillion in it. If those were real assets, then the Social Security Administration could have mailed checks out regardless of what Congress did about the debt limit. The reality is that the Social Security trust fund consists of government IOUs that have no real value at all and probably are not even worth the paper upon which they are printed.     *

     I believe that a person who is 65 years old and has been forced into Social Security is owed something. But the question is, Who owes it to him? Congress has spent every penny of his Social Security "contribution." Young workers have no obligation to be fleeced in order to make up for the dishonesty and dereliction of Congress. The tragedy is that most seniors just want their money and couldn't care less about whom Congress takes it from. 


     Here's what might be a temporary fix: The federal government owns huge quantities of wasting assets -- assets that are not producing anything -- 650 million acres of land, almost 30 percent of the land area of the United States. In exchange for those who choose to opt out of Social Security and forsake any future claim,* why not pay them off with 40 or so acres of land? Doing so would give us breathing room to develop a free choice method to finance retirement.*


i like this guy. of course in the comments someone brings up that they can't afford tax on a gift of 40 acres. 


so tax free that sucker and give me my land.


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Aug 21, 2012)

Just give me 40 acres and a mule and I'll save for my own retirement.  In the meantime, stop printing so much money so my savings won't be worth shit when I retire.


----------



## cshea2 (Aug 22, 2012)

QE3 Is A-Comin' - Forbes


----------



## Swiper (Aug 22, 2012)

cshea2 said:


> QE3 Is A-Comin' - Forbes



great, soon the dollar won't be worth the paper it's printed on.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 22, 2012)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZijLQGH1v0


----------



## cshea2 (Aug 22, 2012)

I know, right. QE2 was not nearly as effective as the first round. The article is a month old, but Senator Chuck Schumer stated that inflation is not a problem because it remains below 2%. Most likely, this will give a brief boost for the economy, followed by massive inflation.


----------



## LAM (Aug 22, 2012)

cshea2 said:


> I know, right. QE2 was not nearly as effective as the first round. The article is a month old, but Senator Chuck Schumer stated that inflation is not a problem because it remains below 2%. Most likely, this will give a brief boost for the economy, followed by massive inflation.



the stated inflation rate out of the gov is total BS look at the increase in the monetary base....

St. Louis Adjusted Monetary Base (BASE) - FRED - St. Louis Fed


----------



## cshea2 (Aug 22, 2012)

LAM said:


> the stated inflation rate out of the gov is total BS look at the increase in the monetary base....
> 
> St. Louis Adjusted Monetary Base (BASE) - FRED - St. Louis Fed



Yes, that graph shows Alan Greenspan's constant easy-money policies that lead to the subprime-mortgage crisis. That is exactly why I posted that article. 

The CPI out of the FED doesn't account for food and energy prices because they are so volatile. I wouldn't call the inflation rate out of the gov total BS though...


----------



## troubador (Aug 22, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZijLQGH1v0



George Carlin - intellectual to the masses. Reiterate common liberal talking points in an irreverent manner and people think you're genius.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 22, 2012)

How much does Romney know about foreign policy?


----------



## Zaphod (Aug 22, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> How much does Romney know about foreign policy?



About as much as the average turnip.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 22, 2012)

And what does Ryan know?  During his yrs in Congress, he has only succeeded in seeing 2 bills he  authored get passed. One renamed a post office in his district
and the second changed the way arrows (as in bows and arrows) are taxed. What an impressive congressional career. 
Paul Ryan Only Passed 2 Bills Into Law In More Than A Decade
 Apparently he spends a LOT of time in the Capitol gym. An ordinary worker would be terminated for such lack of productivity.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 22, 2012)

Zaphod said:


> About as much as the average turnip.



leave Bush out of this.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 23, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> How much does Romney know about foreign policy?



anyone? 

Who owns America? Hint: It's not China – Global Public Square - CNN.com Blogs

need to make up for a few days off but i'll spend the day chuckling to myself about Romney fixing this mess without making life worse for all of us.


----------



## Swiper (Aug 23, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> How much does Romney know about foreign policy?



probably as much as the community organizer did before he became president.


----------



## irish_2003 (Aug 23, 2012)

Official Trailer | 2016: Obama???s America


----------



## Swiper (Aug 23, 2012)

read this one today:  

what's the difference between Obama supporters and a Romney supporters? 

Romney supporters sign the front of the check, Obama supporters sign the back.  lol


----------



## Swiper (Aug 23, 2012)

*Paul Ryan Is a Big Government Conservative*

*Mitt Romney?s vice presidential pick is a friend to the welfare/warfare state.*

Sheldon Richman | August 22, 2012

Paul Ryan may be the conservative?s conservative, but understand what that means: He?s out to save the welfare/warfare state from its own intrinsic unsustainability. He?s no small-government man.

Ryan?s budget blueprint, at best, wouldn?t balance the budget for three decades and meanwhile would add trillions in debt. He would only _slow_ President Obama?s planned spending increases. If Ryan got his way, spending as a percentage of GDP would fall only to 20 percent. It was 18 percent when Bill Clinton left office in 2001. Ryan also wants more military spending.
But there?s more to Ryan than his budget. In virtually all other respects he supports big government.
In the Bush years, Ryan voted for everything: No Child Left Behind (which increased the centralization of education), the Medicare drug entitlement, housing subsidies, unemployment-benefits extension, the bank bailouts, and the 2008 subsidies to failing Chrysler and GM. In voting for TARP (the Trouble Asset Relief Program), Ryan said, ?Madam Speaker, this bill offends my principles, but I?m going to vote for this bill in order to preserve my principles.?
Ryan is equally committed to intrusive government in other areas. He supported Bush?s wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, voting for all the attendant big spending. When the House took votes on winding down the occupation of Iraq, Ryan voted no. He?s an advocate of the American empire, which endangers Americans physically and fiscally.
His voting record on civil liberties is horrendous. He voted to make the USA PATRIOT Act, a collection of liberty-violating powers, permanent; he voted for warrantless surveillance after Bush got caught doing it illegally; and he voted for indefinite detention without trial or charge.
How, then, can we explain Paul Ryan? The fiscal crisis is the key. Unless the government reduces spending growth or raises more revenue (or does both), in a few years the federal government will be able to pay for nothing but interest on the debt. According to the Congressional Budget Office, Social Security and Medicare are projected to account for over 40 percent of the federal budget by 2020?they?re at 37 percent now?and will continue to grow, consuming half the budget in 2030. Today, program benefits exceed revenues. (Until recently the programs produced surpluses, which the politicians spent.) Their alleged trust funds contain Treasury IOUs that will have to be repaid with more borrowed money and interest payments ? the full debt already surpasses GDP. The 75-year unfunded liability of the programs now stands conservatively at over $30 trillion (PDF).
In other words, this can?t go on forever, and as economist Herb Stein said, anything that can?t go on forever will stop.
No politician can be happy with that prospect. A budget spent entirely on interest payments, Social Security, and Medicare would leave nothing for war, occupation, and the other elements of an imperial foreign policy. Nor would there be money to buy off constituencies at election time. A politician with no discretionary funds at his disposal is an unhappy politician, indeed. Hence the desperation to do something.
The politicians? problem is that there is not a lot they can do. The public appetite for deep budget cuts is nonexistent. Even Tea Partiers say don?t touch Medicare and Social Security. Conservatives don?t like cuts in military spending. Mitt Romney?s choice of Ryan as running mate implies that he thinks people are ready for a seeming budget hawk (even though Ryan really isn?t one), but that may turn out to be a fatal error.
Nor can the government get out of its mess by raising taxes. Not only are higher taxes a bad idea in a floundering economy (and any other time), revenues as a percentage of GDP have been steady since World War II (not counting recessions), regardless of tax rates. That means higher rates merely stimulate avoidance, evasion, and leisure over income-producing activity.
Now we can see what Ryan stands for. At its most optimistic, his budget plan would merely stabilize the government?s fiscal condition at higher levels of spending without making any significant change in the welfare/warfare state.
Our freedom and prosperity, however, require that government be radically shrunk?which demands liquidation of the empire, respect for civil liberties, and conversion of entitlements to mutual-aid and other private organizations.
_This article originally appeared at The Future of Freedom Foundation.
Paul Ryan Is a Big Government Conservative - Reason.com_


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 23, 2012)

Trying to get stuff done and I got a few surprising phone calls. Some of the biggest racist assholes I ever knew are supporting Obama because they say Romney is a crook just like his father.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 23, 2012)

I've been hearing from same people that Romney's dad was connected to organized crime. Not sure of a word of it but I did get sent this charming article.

Romney Throws Wife and Father under the Bus | Crooks and Liars


----------



## troubador (Aug 24, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> I've been hearing from same people that Romney's dad was connected to organized crime.



So he was a politician too?


----------



## NVRBDR (Aug 24, 2012)

obama is/was connected to william ayers. 

Ayers was a terrorist in the late 1960s and 1970s whose radical group set bombs at the Pentagon and U.S. Capitol.You might wonder what Obama was doing working with a character like this. you also might wonder how and why an unrepentant terrorist got a huge grant and cooperation from the Chicago public school system.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 24, 2012)

troubador said:


> So he was a politician too?



another hit's that out of the park observation.


----------



## Little Wing (Aug 31, 2012)

Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert fact-check Paul Ryan's speech - latimes.com


----------



## LAM (Aug 31, 2012)

Jimmyusa said:


> obama is/was connected to william ayers.
> 
> Ayers was a terrorist in the late 1960s and 1970s whose radical group set bombs at the Pentagon and U.S. Capitol.You might wonder what Obama was doing working with a character like this. you also might wonder how and why an unrepentant terrorist got a huge grant and cooperation from the Chicago public school system.



and what about the Nazi's that had to remove themselves from GHWB's campaign in 1988?  I guess you don't remember that story that broke in the Philly Inquirer.


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Aug 31, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> How much does Romney know about foreign policy?



Good point.  On the job training in this area hasn't worked too well for the current POTUS.  Romney may represent the typical 1%, starched shirt, wall street ultra capitalist that lefties despise.  But, he is a turn-around guy.  He knows economics and knows how to take a failing business, turn it around, and make it successful.  Obama came into the office with no leadership or foreign policy experience and he's failed on both fronts.  He hasn't even produced a budget in 3 years.  That is unprecedented by any president.  The last time he proposed a budget, it was so bad that not one dem or repub would accept it.  With the economy in the tank and this administration promising us nothing but more of the same, we need a POTUS with the kind of experience and leadership abilities that Romney has, not another American Idol type candidate.


----------



## LAM (Aug 31, 2012)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Good point.  On the job training in this area hasn't worked too well for the current POTUS.  Romney may represent the typical 1%, starched shirt, wall street ultra capitalist that lefties despise.  But, he is a turn-around guy.  He knows economics and knows how to take a failing business, turn it around, and make it successful.  Obama came into the office with no leadership or foreign policy experience and he's failed on both fronts.  He hasn't even produced a budget in 3 years.  That is unprecedented by any president.  The last time he proposed a budget, it was so bad that not one dem or repub would accept it.  With the economy in the tank and this administration promising us nothing but more of the same, we need a POTUS with the kind of experience and leadership abilities that Romney has, not another American Idol type candidate.



US GDP has increased by a factor of 5.5 since 1980 yet wages for 60% of the workforce has remained stagnant or decreased.  increasing GDP means nothing anymore, another bogus economic statistic

and how many budgets have the GOP passed in REALITY over the past 30 years?  ZERO...they talk a good game when they are not in power but once they are nothing changes except the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.  

why has labors share of the national income decreased so much during the past 2 republican presidency's?
Nonfarm Business Sector: Labor Share (PRS85006173) - FRED - St. Louis Fed

and if conservative economic policy's are so great why do the red states all have the lowest per capita and household incomes in the US with the one exception being VA?  and if RTW laws are so great why do the states with the lowest union participation rates rank dead last in terms of per capita income?


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Aug 31, 2012)

LAM said:


> US GDP has increased by a factor of 5.5 since 1980 yet wages for 60% of the workforce has remained stagnant or decreased.  increasing GDP means nothing anymore, another bogus economic statistic



Not just increasing GDP, but his tax policy sounds fairly solid to me.  If it is possible to close all of the loopholes, tax shelters, etc, and have the wealthiest people in the country paying 25%, as opposed to the 13-15% that Romney admits to paying now, it would go a long way towards reducing the deficit over time if spending is also reduced and I don't see that happening under the current admin.  Unless we start imposing a tariff Chinese products, as they're already doing to everyone else, I don't see how wages could possibly rise for the average worker.  I don't see that happening under any dem or repub administration.


----------



## LAM (Aug 31, 2012)

GearsMcGilf said:


> but his tax policy sounds fairly solid to me.  If it is possible to close all of the loopholes, tax shelters, etc, and have the wealthiest people in the country paying 25%, as opposed to the 13-15% that Romney admits to paying now, it would go a long way towards reducing the deficit over time if spending is also reduced and I don't see that happening under the current admin.



none of the legislation that closes the loopholes ever makes it out of committee like the stop tax haven act it was shut down in 2009 & 2011.  the US financial sector is the largest beneficiary of welfare and yet they pay the least amount of taxes and cause the most damage to the US economy.

21 Trillion Hidden in Tax Havens
Tax Justice Network USA

Revised Estimates of Private Banking Assets Under Management and Total Client Assets
?
Top 50 Global Private Banks, 2005-*‐2010
http://www.taxjustice.net/cms/upload/pdf/Private Banking 2012.pdf

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/stopact.pdf


----------



## LAM (Aug 31, 2012)

Inequality: You Don?t Know the Half of It
(Or why inequality is worse than we thought)
By Nicholas Shaxson, John Christensen and Nick Mathiason1
19 July 2012
http://tjn-usa.org/storage/documents/Inequality_-_you_dont_know_the_half_of_it_-_22-07-2012-1.pdf


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 1, 2012)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Good point.  On the job training in this area hasn't worked too well for the current POTUS.  Romney may represent the typical 1%, starched shirt, wall street ultra capitalist that lefties despise.  But, he is a turn-around guy.  He knows economics and knows how to take a failing business, turn it around, and make it successful.  Obama came into the office with no leadership or foreign policy experience and he's failed on both fronts.  He hasn't even produced a budget in 3 years.  That is unprecedented by any president.  The last time he proposed a budget, it was so bad that not one dem or repub would accept it.  With the economy in the tank and this administration promising us nothing but more of the same, we need a POTUS with the kind of experience and leadership abilities that Romney has, not another American Idol type candidate.



He didn't turn around failing businesses.  He bought them for pennies, loaded them with debt, took huge management fees, and then forced them in to bankruptcy.  Wait a minute, maybe he is qualified to be president.  I see no difference between that and what the last 2 jokers have done.


----------



## LAM (Sep 1, 2012)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Good point.  On the job training in this area hasn't worked too well for the current POTUS.  Romney may represent the typical 1%, starched shirt, wall street ultra capitalist that lefties despise.



oh you mean the ones that get money printed for them by the FED like the 16T handed out to the banks and US large firms from 2008-2010?  you mean the ones that get to borrow money for almost free while they charge customers 5-15% APR while paying less than 1% to deposits?  you mean the ones that get politicians to create tax havens and loopholes for them?  you mean the ones that privatize profits but socialize losses?  you mean the ones that get to make side bets (derivatives) and don't have to even have the capital to make the bet in the first place?

they wouldn't exist with out government welfare or lobbyists.   no other country in the world has such a large self-serving financial sector nor does any country in the world have a central bank that prints money specifically for that financial sector.

hell of a bunch of capitalists there or welfare kings....do you consume a lot of heavy metals Gears?


----------



## Swiper (Sep 1, 2012)

Jimmyusa said:


> obama is/was connected to william ayers.
> 
> Ayers was a terrorist in the late 1960s and 1970s whose radical group set bombs at the Pentagon and U.S. Capitol.You might wonder what Obama was doing working with a character like this. you also might wonder how and why an unrepentant terrorist got a huge grant and cooperation from the Chicago public school system.



the American people still voted Obama in office knowing this, his voters  don't care he's friends with terrorists


----------



## LAM (Sep 1, 2012)

Swiper said:


> the American people still voted Obama in office knowing this, his voters  don't care he's friends with terrorists



Bush Campaign Dumps Backer Who Defended Ex-nazi - Philly.com

Nazis And Bush Family History: Government Investigated Bush family's Financing Of Hitler

OpEdNews - Page 3 of Article: Are the Nazi-linked Backgrounds of Some of America's Biggest Corporations a Clue to the Direction We Are Headed?

Old Nazis, New Right and Republican Party 91 edition, Russ Bellant (9780896084186) - Textbooks.com


----------



## cshea2 (Sep 1, 2012)

Give it a rest, private equity is a vital engine for growth in the US economy.

Sports Authority, Staples, Brookstone, Domino's, Sealy Corp, Steel Dynamics Inc., and several other companies Mitt Romney/Bain invested in, turning failing companies in to healthy, profitable companies that have added several thousand jobs after Bain sold them. You don't just buy businesses so you can gut them, and lay everybody off. You wouldn't make any money that way. Obviously, it doesn't always work out, but nobody likes to see the next guy get lied off. If Bain and other private equity investment firms didn't get involved they would have gone out of business anyway.

But, why would you believe me just listen to Obama's boy Cory Booker.
Cory Booker defends Bain Capital, calls attacks on private equity ?nauseating? | theGrio


----------



## cshea2 (Sep 1, 2012)

^^^was supposed to be a response to post #328.


----------



## LAM (Sep 1, 2012)

cshea2 said:


> Give it a rest, private equity is a vital engine for growth in the US economy.



private equity can be a vital growth engine depending on how it's used.  the fact remains that more wealth has been extracted from the private sector than what was invested.  as a whole the financial sector doesn't create new wealth.  real wealth is only created by the production/manufacturing of commodities, etc.


----------



## cshea2 (Sep 1, 2012)

LAM said:


> private equity can be a vital growth engine depending on how it's used.  the fact remains that more wealth has been extracted from the private sector than what was invested.  as a whole the financial sector doesn't create new wealth.  *real wealth is only created by the production/manufacturing of commodities, etc*.



Well, I can't argue with that...


----------



## Decker (Sep 5, 2012)

cshea2 said:


> Give it a rest, private equity is a vital engine for growth in the US economy.
> 
> Sports Authority, Staples, Brookstone, Domino's, Sealy Corp, Steel Dynamics Inc., and several other companies Mitt Romney/Bain invested in, turning failing companies in to healthy, profitable companies that have added several thousand jobs after Bain sold them. You don't just buy businesses so you can gut them, and lay everybody off. You wouldn't make any money that way. Obviously, it doesn't always work out, but nobody likes to see the next guy get lied off. If Bain and other private equity investment firms didn't get involved they would have gone out of business anyway.
> 
> ...


True enough.  Romney used to be a productive investment capitalist.  Until he found out he could make more cash leveraging companies to death / bankruptcy while collecting heavy fees to do so.

He was literally a Gordon Gekko figure.  He is scum that siphons the value created by Labor.  

Anyone want to stand with that?


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 5, 2012)

Obama has more than twice the delegate votes Romney got and roll call isn't even over.


----------



## cshea2 (Sep 6, 2012)

Decker said:


> True enough.  Romney used to be a productive investment capitalist.  Until he found out he could make more cash leveraging companies to death / bankruptcy while collecting heavy fees to do so.
> 
> He was literally a Gordon Gekko figure.  He is scum that siphons the value created by Labor.
> 
> Anyone want to stand with that?



I was just referring to private equity in general. Gordon Gekko?? please... that's a hollywood character that was based loosely on Mike Milken, who did have dealings with romney in the 80's when leveraged buyouts gained popularity.

I'm not supporting Obama or Romney either way...


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2012)

The Federal Bailout That Saved Mitt Romney | Politics News | Rolling Stone

 government documents on the bailout obtained by _Rolling Stone_  show that the legend crafted by Romney is basically a lie. The federal  records, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, reveal that  Romney's initial rescue attempt at Bain & Company was actually a  disaster ? leaving the firm so financially strapped that it had "no  value as a going concern." Even worse, the federal bailout ultimately  engineered by Romney screwed the FDIC ? the bank insurance system backed  by taxpayers ? out of at least $10 million. And in an added insult,  Romney rewarded top executives at Bain with hefty bonuses at the very  moment that he was demanding his handout from the feds.
​


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2012)

no one wants to talk about romney begging for a bailout?


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2012)

Secret Service investigating hacker threat to release Romney tax returns - National Libertarian | Examiner.com


----------



## Swiper (Sep 6, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> no one wants to talk about romney begging for a bailout?



lol.  I hear an echo.   he supported tarp. corporate welfare at its finest.


----------



## cshea2 (Sep 6, 2012)

You guys should put down Rolling Stone for a little while, I don't have time to read that article right now maybe I will get to it later. Just about everybody supported TARP at the time. With the credit markets virtually frozen Bernanke and Paulson, etc. were contemplating the consequences if every bank in the country shut down. Everybody losing their job, no food in the store, and just complete chaos. Very scary stuff. I don't expect a libertarian to understand any off this though, so I don't even know why I'm explaining this.

I do find it very hypocritical that Romney supported bailing out the financial sector, while throwing the auto industry under the bus. Talk about a double standard, white collar vs. blue collar... 

I reluctantly supported TARP and the big three auto bailout.


----------



## LAM (Sep 6, 2012)

the financial collapse and the "fear" that was used to socialize some of those losses to the American tax payer is typical of the leeches of labor in finance.  

in 2008 when US households hit debt levels at 100% of GDP they knew that there was no lending to the working class in the near future how could there be with stagnant wages and 40% of total wealth lost (or I should say transferred to bond holders).   

*economics is not a zero sum game, somebody has to lose in order for another to gain.*


----------



## cshea2 (Sep 6, 2012)

^^Are you a communist?


----------



## troubador (Sep 6, 2012)

cshea2 said:


> You guys should put down Rolling Stone for a little while, I don't have time to read that article right now maybe I will get to it later. Just about everybody supported TARP at the time. With the credit markets virtually frozen Bernanke and Paulson, etc. were contemplating the consequences if every bank in the country shut down. Everybody losing their job, no food in the store, and just complete chaos. Very scary stuff. I don't expect a libertarian to understand any off this though, so I don't even know why I'm explaining this.



True, we'd need some math.


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## GearsMcGilf (Sep 6, 2012)

LAM said:


> the financial collapse and the "fear" that was used to socialize some of those losses to the American tax payer is typical of the leeches of labor in finance.
> 
> in 2008 when US households hit debt levels at 100% of GDP they knew that there was no lending to the working class in the near future how could there be with stagnant wages and 40% of total wealth lost (or I should say transferred to bond holders).
> 
> *economics is not a zero sum game, somebody has to lose in order for another to gain.*



That's a pretty socialist philosophy.  I was in the midst of it when the shit hit the fan.  Underwritting guidlines had long since gone down the tubes and we'd all been making loans, thinking that you could never go wrong with a RE deal.  Everyone thought the gravy train would continue, with perhaps a soft landing somewhere in the far distant future.  When the bottom fell out, ALL banks simply cut off the tap, stopped lending altogether and stopped trusting all of our borrowers.  Everyone became a suspect.  Us lenders were suspected of being crooks along with all of our customers; and there were some of both.  But, most of it was due to the prolonged ease of credit and a false sense of security.  After the collapse, the banks basically went into damage control mode and were more worried about survival than new production.  While it's true that many of the fat cat execs were able to retire and hang onto what was left of their wealth while the lower guys on the totem pole got the boot and had to struggle, it ultimately wasn't about fucking anyone over, but about figuring out if and how the banks themselves were going to survive.


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## GearsMcGilf (Sep 6, 2012)

Biden and Obama actually gave pretty good speeches 2nite.  Barry actually seems somewhat positive tonight and not as cocky and defensive as he has been.  Kerry made a complete jackass out of himself as usual, but I wouldn't have expected anything less.  Surely Barry won't make that d-bag State Sec if he gets re-elected.  That being said, I'm still not voting for them.  There's still plenty of BS and overlooking of the obvious coming out of these speeches.


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2012)

my daughter is sending me the YT comments

RT @MrCrippled: I'm pretty sure Obama just won the election, he's mopping the floor with Romney 

 @HMDTonyJ: For a jaded old man saddened by the division in this country, I just got an O-Boner #youtubepolitics #dnc2012 #Obama


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## LAM (Sep 6, 2012)

cshea2 said:


> ^^Are you a communist?



not at all but I have a great understanding of economics and how it works in the real world.....


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## LAM (Sep 6, 2012)

GearsMcGilf said:


> That's a pretty socialist philosophy.



actually it's one of the man principles of mercantilism which was replaced by capitalism in the mid 1800's...


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## GearsMcGilf (Sep 6, 2012)

You go right ahead and tend to that O-boner now whilst still you can!  After Nov, the rest of us will be pleasuring out R-boners for 8 years.  Remember, what you saw tonight was nothing but the Obama camp autofellating.  The rubber will meet the road at the debates and I pitty Obama and his senile sidekick when they have to go up against a batman/robin duo like Romney/Ryan.  One has real world business success, of which, Obama has no concept, the other is a budget/arithmatic prodogy who will easily run circles around the gaffe master.


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## LAM (Sep 6, 2012)

GearsMcGilf said:


> You go right ahead and tend to that O-boner now whilst still you can!  After Nov, the rest of us will be pleasuring out R-boners for 8 years.



ah yes the wonders of deficit building supply side economics under GOP admins, it's worked so well these past 3 decades.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2012)

GearsMcGilf said:


> You go right ahead and tend to that O-boner now whilst still you can!  After Nov, the rest of us will be pleasuring out R-boners for 8 years.  Remember, what you saw tonight was nothing but the Obama camp autofellating.  The rubber will meet the road at the debates and I pitty Obama and his senile sidekick when they have to go up against a batman/robin duo like Romney/Ryan.  One has real world business success, of which, Obama has no concept, the other is a budget/arithmatic prodogy who will easily run circles around the gaffe master.



i don't think you believe a word of that.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2012)




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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2012)

Paul Ryan: Hypocrite ? URANTIAN SOJOURN


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## Standard Donkey (Sep 6, 2012)

GearsMcGilf said:


> You go right ahead and tend to that O-boner now whilst still you can!  After Nov, the rest of us will be pleasuring out R-boners for 8 years.  Remember, what you saw tonight was nothing but the Obama camp autofellating.  The rubber will meet the road at the debates and I pitty Obama and his senile sidekick when they have to go up against a batman/robin duo like Romney/Ryan.  One has real world business success, of which, Obama has no concept, the other is a budget/arithmatic prodogy who will easily run circles around the gaffe master.




romney cant organize a community like obama can doh


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## LAM (Sep 6, 2012)

GearsMcGilf said:


> it ultimately wasn't about fucking anyone over, but about figuring out if and how the banks themselves were going to survive.



i'm pretty sure the banks that grew too big to fail knew how they were going to survive.  was why else would lobbyist have so many of the financial products secured by the US government year after year.  what other country does this to the extent of the US fed gov?  

*recessions ALWAYS cause permanent wealth transfers* and to buy into the bullshit that big finance didn't "know" a bubble was building is 100% absolute bullshit and/or utter ignorance of economic history and how the markets work in that aspect...a bubble is a bubble it doesn't matter in what sector it occurs the signs are all the same.


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## Swiper (Sep 7, 2012)

? Are You Better Off? 40 Statistics That Will Absolutely Shock You Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!*

#1* During the time Barack Obama has been in the White House, median household income has fallen by 7.3 percent.

*#2* Back in 2007, 19.2 percent of all American families had a net worth of zero or less than zero.  By 2010, that figure had soared to 32.5 percent.

*#3* According to the Federal Reserve, the median net worth of American families dropped ?from $126,400 in 2007 to $77,300 in 2010?.

*#4* According to the Pew Research Center, 61 percent of all Americans were ?middle income? back in 1971.  Today, only 51 percent of all Americans are ?middle income?.

*#5* Back in 1970, middle income Americans brought home 62 percent of all income in the United States.  In 2010, middle income Americans only brought home 45 percent of all income.

*#6* The unemployment rate in the United States has been above 8 percent for 42 straight months.

*#7* The percentage of working age Americans with a job has been below 59 percent for 35 months in a row.

*#8* In June, the number of Americans added to the food stamp rolls was nearly three times largerthan the number of jobs added to the U.S. economy.

*#9* Approximately 53 percent of all U.S. college graduates under the age of 25 were either unemployed or underemployed last year.

*#10* Since Barack Obama entered the White House, the number of long-term unemployed Americans has risen from 2.7 million to 5.2 million.

*#11* Today, the average duration of unemployment in the United States is about three times as long as it was back in the year 2000.

*#12* According to a report that has just been released by the National Employment Law Project, 58 percent of the jobs that have been created since the end of the recession have been low paying jobs.

*#13* According to the Center for Economic and Policy Research, only 24.6 percent of all of the jobs in the United States are ?good jobs?.

*#14* In 2010, the number of jobs created at new businesses in the United States was less than half of what it was back in the year 2000.

*#15* The average pay for self-employed Americans fell by $3,721 between 2006 and 2010.

*#16* According to U.S. Representative Betty Sutton, America has lost an average of 15 manufacturing facilities a day over the last 10 years.  During 2010 it got even worse.  That year, an average of 23 manufacturing facilities a day shut down in the United States.

*#17* At this point, one out of every four American workers has a job that pays $10 an hour or less.

*#18* While Barack Obama has been president the velocity of money has plunged to a post-World War II low.

*#19* According to one recent survey, 85 percent of middle class Americans say that it is harder to maintain a middle class standard of living today compared with 10 years ago.

*#20* Electricity bills in the United States have risen faster than the overall rate of inflation for five years in a row.

*#21* There are now 20.2 million Americans that spend more than half of their incomes on housing.  That represents a 46 percent increase from 2001.

*#22* Over the past decade, health insurance premiums have risen three times faster than wages have in the United States.

*#23* Health insurance costs have risen by 23 percent since Barack Obama became president.

*#24* As I wrote about yesterday, back in 1980 less than 10 percent of U.S. GDP was spent on health care but now about 18 percent of U.S. GDP goes toward health care.

*#25* In a previous article, I noted that 62 percent of all middle class Americans say that they have had to reduce household spending over the past year.

*#26* Family budgets in America are being stretched to the breaking point.  Today, 77 percent of all Americans live paycheck to paycheck at least part of the time.

*#27* While Barack Obama has been president, U.S. home values have fallen by another 11 percent.

*#28* More than three times as many new homes were sold in the United States in 2005 as will be sold in 2012.

*#29* The United States was once ranked #1 in the world in GDP per capita.  Today we have slipped to #11.

*#30* Since Barack Obama became president, the number of Americans living in poverty has risen by 6.4 million.

*#31* The number of Americans on food stamps has grown from about *17 million* in the year 2000 to *31.9 million*when Barack Obama entered the White House to 46.7 million today.

*#32* Approximately one-fourth of all U.S. children are enrolled in the food stamp program at this point.

*#33* It is being projected that half of all American children will be on food stamps at least once before they turn 18 years of age.

*#34* It is estimated that child homelessness in the United States has risen by 33 percent since 2007.

*#35* Back in 1965, only one out of every 50 Americans was on Medicaid.  Today, approximately one out of every 6 Americans is on Medicaid.

*#36* As I wrote about the other day, it is being projected that Obamacare will add 16 million more Americans to the Medicaid rolls.

*#37* It is being projected that the number of Americans on Medicare will grow from 50.7 million in 2012 to 73.2 million in 2025.

*#38* The number of Americans receiving federal housing assistance increased by a whopping 42 percent between 2006 and 2010.

*#39* At this point, well over 100 million Americans are enrolled in at least one welfare program run by the federal government.

*#40* Amazingly, more than half of all Americans are now at least partially financially dependent on the government.

? Are You Better Off? 40 Statistics That Will Absolutely Shock You Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Sep 7, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> i don't think you believe a word of that.



Just wait and see.  Can you really picture Biden arguing actual numbers with Ryan or Romney debating economics with the community organizer n chief?  I can already picture Barry throwing out his arguments about fairness, social justice, etc.  He certainly won't be able to fall back on his record.  He's far too vulnerable there.  Just look at the promises made 4 years ago and the fact that the only thing he has going for him is Osama's carcass.


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## LAM (Sep 7, 2012)

Swiper said:


> ? Are You Better Off? 40 Statistics That Will Absolutely Shock You Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind![/FONT][/COLOR]



typical post by one that doesn't understand *HOW * the US got into this position, *only ever stating the effects of bad economic policy never blaming the effects policy, as if legislation writes itself*.

as I have stated before supply & demand = cause & effect

If you even bothered to read the report below you would understand that no magically economic policy can fix the catastrophic aftermath of economic policy under GWB.

http://www.frbsf.org/publications/economics/letter/2011/el2011-21.pdf

from just the first paragraph:

"In the mid-2000s, an enormous speculative housing bubble emerged in the United States. An
accommodative interest rate environment, lax lending standards, ineffective mortgage regulation, and
unchecked growth of loan securitization all fueled an overexpansion of consumer borrowing. An influx of
new and often unsophisticated homebuyers with access to easy credit helped bid up house prices to
unprecedented levels relative to rents or disposable income. *Equity extracted from rapidly appreciating
home values provided households with hundreds of billions of dollars per year in spendable cash,
significantly boosting consumer spending.* The consumption binge was accompanied by a rapid increase
in household debt relative to income and a decline in the personal saving rate (see Lansing 2005)."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


rather hard to resume post recession spending levels when the equity is no longer there....gee I wonder if that would effect employment?


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## Swiper (Sep 7, 2012)

LAM said:


> typical post by one that doesn't understand *HOW * the US got into this position, *only ever stating the effects of bad economic policy never blaming the effects policy, as if legislation writes itself*.
> 
> as I have stated before supply & demand = cause & effect
> 
> ...




You can rationalize it how ever you'd like in your head, but the stats are facts. How we got there is a separate issue for debate......


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## vicious 13 (Sep 7, 2012)

What at wall u guys going to say when Obama wins... The real problem is voting I hate the fact my future is decided by the idiots that live here


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## LAM (Sep 7, 2012)

Swiper said:


> You can rationalize it how ever you'd like in your head, but the stats are facts. How we got there is a separate issue for debate......



that's not rationalizing it's called using critical thinking and the scientific method.

er um...how we got there determines the solution and how long of a duration it will take to restore the economy back to a *SUSTAINABLE *level of consumption that is not fueled by debt and especially not replacing home equity for revolving debt.  

in terms of the home equity is not REAL it is only the current fair market value.  equity is not the same as savings which is delayed consumption.


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## Little Wing (Sep 7, 2012)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Just wait and see.  Can you really picture Biden arguing actual numbers with Ryan or Romney debating economics with the community organizer n chief?  I can already picture Barry throwing out his arguments about fairness, social justice, etc.  He certainly won't be able to fall back on his record.  He's far too vulnerable there.  Just look at the promises made 4 years ago and the fact that the only thing he has going for him is Osama's carcass.



i think one thing Ryan has going for him is the ignorant cockblocking republican assholes that don't really care what hurts the US as long as they stand in Obama's way. a lot of republicans are speaking out this year saying they don't even recognize the current republican party that this is not the party they were once proud of. everyone laughs at how retarded the average American kid is like the idiot blathering about a map.... but don't say a word when republican assholes stand in the way of improving education. 

riddle me this.... say i had a job opening and you told me you could make my lawn flourish.... but a whole swarm of guys pissed that YOU got the job did everything in their power to make sure you weren't able to do your best. when you went to buy seed or fertilizer they made damned sure you couldn't accomplish that. who's to blame? maybe the cunts sabotaging you. someone needs to turn a hose on congress and flush out those not willing to work toward a better tomorrow.


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## cshea2 (Sep 7, 2012)

troubador said:


> True, we'd need some math.



Thanks for proving my point!


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## Little Wing (Sep 10, 2012)

how's this for math?

Larry Flynt Offering $1 Million For Mitt Romney's Tax Returns

Flynt's dislike of Romney isn't surprising considering the Republican  presidential nominee's promise to crack down on pornography if elected. Flynt told the Daily Caller that Romney's plan is "an idle threat made for political reasons."

 i like his moxie.


----------



## Gregzs (Sep 10, 2012)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/u...&_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120910

[h=1]Romney?s Tax Plan Leaves Key Variables Blank[/h][h=6]By ANNIE LOWREY and DAVID KOCIENIEWSKI[/h]WASHINGTON ? If any single question can be said to dominate the presidential campaign, it is whether the conservative policies advocated by Mitt Romney would help or hurt the middle class. And no issue hits the heart of that question more than taxes.        

Mr. Romney says no middle-income Americans will have their tax bill go up if he is president. President Obama says the average middle-class family would pay as much as $2,000 a year more under the Romney plan.        
It is a conflict that grew in prominence during the party conventions and that both sides intend to push from now until Election Day. And it has focused sharper attention on what many experts agree is one of the tax code?s biggest problems: an array of tax breaks totaling more than $1 trillion a year.        

The breaks cover activities as varied as cutting timber, providing health insurance to employees, selling stock and buying a home, making them popular with powerful constituencies and voters. But many economists say the tax breaks are inefficient and even distort the economy.        

Mr. Romney has pledged to cut individual income tax rates for everyone, and to do it without increasing the federal budget deficit or putting new tax burdens on middle-income people to make up for the lost revenues from the rate cuts. But he has provided no further specifics, confounding analysts and leaving himself open to attack from Democrats.        

Asked on the NBC program ?Meet the Press? on Sunday which tax deductions he would eliminate, he said only that he would target ?some of the loopholes and deductions at the high end? while lowering the ?burden on middle-income people.?        

Democrats ? as well as a broad range of economists from the left, right and center ? say that the consequence of ending tax breaks substantial enough to offset the lost revenue from income tax rate cuts would be to hurt middle-class Americans.        
Many independent analysts contend that the only way to raise the revenue Mr. Romney is talking about would be to eliminate breaks like the preferential treatment of investment income or the mortgage-interest deduction.        

Their position is central to the Democrats? argument that eliminating tax breaks ? called tax expenditures because they often function like government spending programs ? would hit the middle class the hardest.        

The partisan battle underscores a wide consensus among economists and policy experts that no matter who wins the presidency, tax reform will be near the top of the national agenda before the end of the year, when the Bush-era tax cuts, worth $100 billion a year, are set to expire and lawmakers turn again to addressing the government?s budget problems.        

?Scaling back the tax expenditures in the tax code will be incredibly difficult,? said Mark Zandi, the chief economist at Moody?s Analytics. ?There is some constituency ready to go to war for every deduction and credit in the code. They?re ready to go on jihad. It will be very, very hard.?        

Mr. Romney?s tax proposal is built on three central pillars. He has pledged that he will cut all of the marginal tax rates by 20 percent ? so the top tax rate would fall to 28 percent from 35 percent, and the bottom tax rate would fall to 8 percent from 10 percent. That by itself would reduce the government?s revenue by hundreds of billions of dollars a year.        

Second, Mr. Romney has promised that his plan will be ?revenue neutral,? meaning it would pay for those rate reductions by clearing out the underbrush of loopholes and credits in the tax code.        
But each tax break has its own rationale and fierce defenders.        

Eliminate the home-mortgage interest deduction (annual cost: $99 billion and rising) and risk that housing prices will plummet just as that sector of the economy is starting to recover. End the deduction for charitable giving (annual cost: $53 billion) and attract the wrath of every hospital chief and museum director. Touch the protections for investment income (annual cost: more than $100 billion) and anger everyone from Wall Street executives to retirees.        
Given that reality, the campaign has said it would protect some tax breaks ? most notably the home-mortgage interest deduction and the investment protections.        

But it has refused to detail which tax expenditures it would cut, leaving economists and other tax experts guessing and making a definitive analysis of its effects on families, businesses and the economy close to impossible.        
?Everything is on the table,? R. Glenn Hubbard, a top economic adviser to the campaign, said in an interview, declining to elaborate any further.        

Third, and finally, the Romney campaign has said that it would not raise taxes on the middle class.        

The problem, tax analysts say, is that it is mathematically impossible do all three of those things.        

High-income earners would pay far less as tax rates fell. Even if the Romney campaign eliminated every one of their noninvestment tax breaks and credits, rich families would still not pay what they do today.        
That raises the question of whether the plan would increase taxes on the middle class, add to the deficit or require less-steep rate reductions.        

?The combination of stuff they?ve specified is not only impossible ? it is impossible several times over,? said William G. Gale, the director of economic studies for the center-left Brookings Institution and a co-author of a definitive Tax Policy Center study on Mr. Romney?s plan, whose arithmetic the Obama campaign is citing.        

?It?s not as if the entire philosophical approach he?s pursuing is doomed,? said Alan D. Viard, a tax expert at the right-of-center American Enterprise Institute. ?But he?s going to need to cut rates significantly less than 20 percent if he wants to honor his other goals.?        

For weeks, the Obama campaign has used the vagueness of Mr. Romney?s tax plan as an opportunity, filling in the gaps in the equation on its own and, not surprisingly, accusing him of being a class warrior on behalf of the wealthy.        

Presuming that Mr. Romney would protect the investment income of the 1 percent, Mr. Obama?s campaign has argued that Mr. Romney can pay for his tax cuts only by eliminating tax breaks that benefit the middle class.        
In his acceptance speech Thursday, Mr. Obama warned that those lost deductions and tax credits would add up to $2,000 to middle-class families? tax bills.        

Mr. Obama, for his part, has promised to preserve the Bush-era cuts for income below $250,000. But income over $250,000 would be taxed at the Clinton-era rates ? with the rate for the top bracket climbing to 39.6 percent from 35 percent now. All told, Mr. Obama?s proposal would raise about $1 trillion in new revenue over the next decade, according to most projections.        

Mr. Romney has said that it is ?just not true? that he would raise taxes on middle-income earners, with his campaign hitting the Obama campaign for playing ?class warfare.?        

But it is simply not clear how the Romney campaign would fill the holes. And his campaign for the presidency has raised much broader questions about how to carry out tax reform in a heated political climate and a tepid economy.        
?Slowly,? is the answer that most tax experts give.


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Sep 10, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> how's this for math?
> 
> Larry Flynt Offering $1 Million For Mitt Romney's Tax Returns
> 
> ...



Really scraping the bottom of the barrel now eh?  Don't get me wrong.  I like my pr0n just as much as you.  But I don't see how losing Larry Flynt's endorsement is going to hurt him.


----------



## LAM (Sep 10, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> Flynt's dislike of Romney isn't surprising considering the Republican  presidential nominee's promise to crack down on pornography if elected. Flynt told the Daily Caller that Romney's plan is "an idle threat made for political reasons."
> 
> i like his moxie.



the funny thing about that is Utah ranks #1 in online pornography subscriptions


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## Little Wing (Sep 10, 2012)

LAM said:


> the funny thing about that is Utah ranks #1 in online pornography subscriptions



I know. Nothing like forbidden fruit.


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## GearsMcGilf (Sep 11, 2012)

All this back and forth may be moot I'm afraid.  It looks like we have another 4 years of Obama presidency to look forward to, unless Romney and Ryan totally destroy Obama and Biden in the debates.  Even then, I'm not so sure it will matter.


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## Little Wing (Sep 11, 2012)

They are saying Obama is pulling ahead in polls but Romney is still "within striking distance." I don't think it's going to be a sweat free election, Romney will probably get a lot of votes.


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## hoyle21 (Sep 11, 2012)

Conservatives are going to have a more difficult time winning until they drop the social conservative B.S.


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 11, 2012)

GearsMcGilf said:


> All this back and forth may be moot I'm afraid.  It looks like we have another 4 years of Obama presidency to look forward to, unless Romney and Ryan totally destroy Obama and Biden in the debates.  Even then, I'm not so sure it will matter.




yep.. insane thing is, people disapprove of obama's job performance, but like him as a person..


incredible how stupid americans are


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Sep 11, 2012)

hoyle21 said:


> Conservatives are going to have a more difficult time winning until they drop the social conservative B.S.



What social conservative BS?  Romney isn't trying to win on abortion or gay marriage.  Those are issues that no one really gives a shit about right now.  It was the DNC that featured Sandra Fluke as a prime time speaker, whose only significance is that she wants us to pay the $9/mo for her birth control pills.  They['re running on those issues and gaining poll numbers on it.  Don't underestimate the stupidity of the avg voter. lol


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 11, 2012)

In unusual snub, Obama to avoid meeting with Netanyahu | Reuters


----------



## NVRBDR (Sep 11, 2012)

^^^
(Reuters) - In a highly unusual rebuff to a close ally as tensions escalated over how to deal with Iran's nuclear program, the White House said on Tuesday President Barack Obama would not meet Benjamin Netanyahu during the Israeli prime minister's U.S. visit later this month.
The apparent snub, coupled with Netanyahu's sharpened demands for a tougher U.S. line against Iran, threatened to plunge U.S.-Israeli relations into crisis and add pressure on Obama in the final stretch of a tight presidential election campaign.
An Israeli official, who declined to be identified, said the White House had refused Netanyahu's request to meet Obama when the Israeli leader visits the United States to attend the U.N. General Assembly, telling the Israelis, "The president's schedule will not permit that."
White House spokesman Tommy Vietor denied that Netanyahu had ever made such an overture - let alone that it had been spurned - insisting instead that the two leaders were attending the General Assembly on different days and would not be in New York at the same time.
With U.S.-Israeli differences increasingly laid bare and allies of Republican presidential challenger Mitt Romney seizing the chance to slam Obama over his Israel policy, the president phoned Netanyahu on Tuesday night.
Netanyahu has had a strained relationship with Obama, but they have met on all but one of his U.S. trips since 2009. The president was on a foreign visit when the prime minister came to the United States in November 2010.
By withholding a meeting, the Democratic president could alienate some Jewish and pro-Israel voters as he seeks a second term in the November 6 election. Romney has already accused Obama of being too tough on Israel and not hard enough on Iran.
Obama and Netanyahu, according to a White House summary of their call, reaffirmed a "united" determination to prevent Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon and to continue close consultations. But they mentioned nothing about the "red lines" Netanyahu wants Obama to set for Tehran.
Obama's avoidance of a face-to-face meeting could signal U.S. displeasure with Netanyahu's intensifying push a specific ultimatum to Iran. Obama aides say privately they believe Netanyahu favors Romney, a fellow conservative, although the Israeli leader has been cautious to avoid being seen interfering in the election campaign.
Word that the two men would not meet came on the same day that Netanyahu said the United States had forfeited its moral right to stop Israel from taking action against Iran's nuclear program because it had refused to be firm with Tehran itself.
Netanyahu has argued that setting a clear boundary for Iran's uranium enrichment activities and imposing stronger economic sanctions could deter Tehran from developing nuclear weapons and mitigate the need for military action.
In comments that appeared to bring the possibility of an Israeli attack on Iran closer, Netanyahu took Washington to task for rebuffing his call to set a clear "red line" for Iran's nuclear program, which has already prompted four rounds of U.N. sanctions.
"The world tells Israel, 'Wait, there's still time.' And I say, 'Wait for what? Wait until when?'" Netanyahu said.
"Those in the international community who refuse to put red lines before Iran don't have a moral right to place a red light before Israel," he added, addressing a news conference with Bulgaria's prime minister.
John McCain and Lindsey Graham, Republican senators and critics of Obama's foreign policy, said in a joint statement: "It is puzzling that the president can't make time to see the head of state of one of America's closest allies in the world."
"If these reports are true, the White House's decision sends a troubling signal to our ally Israel about America's commitment at this dangerous and challenging time," they said.
'UNPRECEDENTED ATTACK'
The website of Israeli daily newspaper Haaretz called Netanyahu's words "an unprecedented verbal attack on the U.S. government".
Iran makes no secret of its hostility to Israel, widely assumed to be the region's only nuclear-armed power, but says its nuclear program is purely peaceful.
Netanyahu's relations with Obama have been tense because of Iran and other issues, such as Jewish settlement building in the occupied West Bank.
But he has never framed his differences with Obama - who has pledged he will "always have Israel's back" and has not ruled out military action against Iran if all else fails - in moral terms.
Obama has been seeking to shore up his advantage over Romney with Jewish voters - who could make a difference in election battleground states like Florida and Ohio - by stressing his support for Israel's security. He received 78 percent of the Jewish vote in 2008, but a nationwide Gallup poll in June showed him down to 64 percent backing versus Romney's 29 percent.
While seeking to put Netanyahu in his place might not go down well with pro-Israel voters, the White House may also be trying to avoid an embarrassing encounter. When the two men met in the Oval Office in May 2011, Netanyahu lectured Obama on Jewish history and criticized his approach to Israeli-Palestinian diplomacy.
Netanyahu's office had offered a solution to the leaders' scheduling problems by having him visit Washington before his U.N. speech on September 28, but the White House did not accept the idea, the Israeli official said.
Obama, who is keeping up a busy schedule of campaign rallies across the country, is expected to take a break to address the opening session at the United Nations on September 25.
There was no immediate comment from the Romney campaign, which had curtailed its public statements out of respect for the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001, attacks.
Netanyahu's harsh comments on Tuesday followed U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's remarks on Monday that the United States would not set a deadline in further talks with Iran, and that there was still time for sanctions and diplomacy to work. Clinton - instead of Obama - will meet Netanyahu at the United Nations later in September, the White House said.
U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said on Tuesday that Washington would have little more than a year to act to stop Iran if it decided to produce a nuclear weapon.
Iran has threatened to retaliate against Israel and U.S. interests in the Gulf if it is attacked, and any such conflict could throw Obama's re-election bid off course.
DEADLINE
Netanyahu did not mention Clinton by name, but pointedly parroted her use of the word "deadline," saying: "If Iran knows that there is no 'deadline', what will it do? Exactly what it's doing. It's continuing, without any interference, towards obtaining a nuclear weapons capability and from there, nuclear bombs."
"So far, we can say with certainty that diplomacy and sanctions haven't worked. The sanctions have hurt the Iranian economy, but they haven't stopped the Iranian nuclear program. That's a fact. And the fact is that every day that passes, Iran gets closer and closer to nuclear bombs."
Despite the recent tougher Israeli rhetoric, over the past week, Netanyahu, in calling for a "red line," had appeared to be backing away from military action. Polls suggest a majority of Israelis do not want to strike Iran without U.S. support.
Defense Minister Ehud Barak seemed to criticize Netanyahu's assault on the Jewish state's biggest ally.
"Despite the differences and importance of maintaining Israel's independence of action, we must remember the importance of partnership with the United States and try as much as possible not to hurt that," a statement from his office said.


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Sep 11, 2012)

Obama sees the USA as a colonial power and believes that the USA military, economic, and political influence needs to be reined in.  I sure hope that we can get him out of the WH, but I'm not optimistic at this point.


----------



## LAM (Sep 11, 2012)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Obama sees the USA as a colonial power and believes that the USA military, economic, and political influence needs to be reined in.  I sure hope that we can get him out of the WH, but I'm not optimistic at this point.



It's funny that you still think the POTUS runs the US.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

Paul Ryan Labor Day Parade - YouTube

Mitt Romney Accidentally Confronts A Gay Veteran; Awesomeness Ensues


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Sep 12, 2012)

LAM said:


> It's funny that you still think the POTUS runs the US.



No.  Barry is just a figure head, just like the president of China is just their figure head and wields no power.  Unfortunately, I think Ben Bernake is our real POTUS.  Barry just won the last American Idol contest.


----------



## LAM (Sep 12, 2012)

GearsMcGilf said:


> No.  Barry is just a figure head, just like the president of China is just their figure head and wields no power.  Unfortunately, I think Ben Bernake is our real POTUS.  Barry just won the last American Idol contest.



the position in the US is merely ceremonial at this point and it''s been that way for a long time.  the BIS who hands out orders to the central banking system runs the US on the economic side and the UN the other.


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 12, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> Paul Ryan Labor Day Parade - YouTube
> 
> Mitt Romney Accidentally Confronts A Gay Veteran; Awesomeness Ensues




a bunch of whiny obnoxious people harrassing a man with his family. In LW's world, this is a great and reliable source of information. 

LOL@ the guy "i have a sickness where i have to take a medication that used to cost me $58 dollars a month, and now it costs $400 and under ryan's plan the money to pay for it would come out of my pocket"


well who the FUCK should pay for it you fat dumb FUCK? it's you with the disease? why should i pay for your shit?!..

downfall of america right there folks..


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> a bunch of whiny obnoxious people harrassing a man with his family. In LW's world, this is a great and reliable source of information.
> 
> LOL@ the guy "i have a sickness where i have to take a medication that used to cost me $58 dollars a month, and now it costs $400 and under ryan's plan the money to pay for it would come out of my pocket"
> 
> ...



he is a politician in America not royalty and he works for those people. apparently they find it a farce that he is walking in a LABOR day parade. they also vote.

and why should ANY medication cost $400. some Americans actually *mind * the corporate and political dick in their ass.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

harassing not harrassing. i assume you're not a big supporter of education funding either


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 12, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> he is a politician in America not royalty and he works for those people. apparently they find it a farce that he is walking in a LABOR day parade. they also vote.
> 
> and why should ANY medication cost $400. some Americans actually *mind * the corporate and political dick in their ass.



i never said he was royalty.... however, its indefensible to harass anyone when they are with their family... that's what writing letters and visiting his office is for. Harassing him in public is incredibly inefficient and only serves to be obnoxious. 

Although im not surprised at all that you are defending childish and immature behavior.



$400 dollars for medication is certainly _not_ unreasonable.. and even if it was, it's the responsibility of the people who have the disease to pay for it. If it's just the big bad corporations making a buck off the common people, the common people should invest in those corporations and benefit from the _huge_ returns..

it's like fat/old people complaining that they have to use _their own_ money to buy their electric scooters..


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

i'm guessing you're still a teenager.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

Mitt Romney said during a Meet the Press  interview that he opposes much of the Affordable Care Act, but would not  do away with health reform if elected.

"Well, I'm not getting  rid of all of healthcare reform," Romney said. "Of course there are a  number of things that I like in health care reform that I'm going to put  in place. *One is to make sure that those with preexisting conditions  can get coverage.* Two is to assure that the marketplace allows for  individuals to have policies that cover their family up to whatever age  they might like."


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 12, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> i'm guessing you're still a teenager.




not surprised that this was your response... still doing that whole "void of substance" thing huh?


----------



## Zaphod (Sep 12, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> i never said he was royalty.... however, its indefensible to harass anyone when they are with their family... that's what writing letters and visiting his office is for. Harassing him in public is incredibly inefficient and only serves to be obnoxious.
> 
> Although im not surprised at all that you are defending childish and immature behavior.
> 
> ...



Those same $400 medications are around $10 or less, over the counter, in most other countries.  We're just the ones getting fucked because there are people like you that seem to enjoy being on the receiving end of the anal action.


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 12, 2012)

Zaphod said:


> Those same $400 medications are around $10 or less, over the counter, in most other countries.  We're just the ones getting fucked because there are people like you that seem to enjoy being on the receiving end of the anal action.




i see you are cosigning with LW's method. 


if the medications are that much cheaper in other countries, people should buy from those countries.. capitalism at it's finest, and it will cause american companies to reduce prices in order to be competitive.


----------



## hoyle21 (Sep 12, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> i see you are cosigning with LW's method.
> 
> 
> if the medications are that much cheaper in other countries, people should buy from those countries.. capitalism at it's finest, and it will cause american companies to reduce prices in order to be competitive.



If only it were legal to do so.


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 12, 2012)

hoyle21 said:


> If only it were legal to do so.




it's illegal to spit on the sidewalk


----------



## LAM (Sep 12, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> capitalism at it's finest, and it will cause american companies to reduce prices in order to be competitive.



funny how that hasn't happened in 150+ years since the change from mercantilism...when's it supposed to start?  because the US gov won't even allow prescription drugs to be imported from our heaviest trading partner Canada...how capitalism in theory is supposed to work and how it does in reality are completely different.   funny how people like you still buy into the bullshit


----------



## Zaphod (Sep 12, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> i see you are cosigning with LW's method.
> 
> 
> if the medications are that much cheaper in other countries, people should buy from those countries.. capitalism at it's finest, and it will cause american companies to reduce prices in order to be competitive.



It's the American companies selling the same drugs in other countries for pennies on the dollar.  They aren't competing with anything.  They are just sticking it to us and you can't get enough of the dick in your ass.  Unless you have a prescription to bring those drugs across the border you are breaking the law bringing drugs back here.


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 12, 2012)

LAM said:


> funny how that hasn't happened in 150+ years since the change from mercantilism...when's it supposed to start?  because the US gov won't even allow prescription drugs to be imported from our heaviest trading partner Canada...how capitalism in theory is supposed to work and how it does in reality are completely different.   funny how people like you still buy into the bullshit




i apply it to my own life and it works fine  just because im now allowed to, doesnt mean that i dont


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 12, 2012)

Zaphod said:


> It's the American companies selling the same drugs in other countries for pennies on the dollar.  They aren't competing with anything.  They are just sticking it to us and you can't get enough of the dick in your ass.  Unless you have a prescription to bring those drugs across the border you are breaking the law bringing drugs back here.



i really dont understand your fascination with dicks going into my ass, but i digress.

people order stuff from foreign pharmacies illegally all the time, and dont get caught. I've heard there are actually websites where these pharmacies pay to advertise 


again, some laws were meant to be broken, and you can get away with breakin them


----------



## LAM (Sep 12, 2012)

Zaphod....he think's it capitalism because somebody on tv told him that!  LMAO....


----------



## Zaphod (Sep 12, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> i really dont understand your fascination with dicks going into my ass, but i digress.
> 
> people order stuff from foreign pharmacies illegally all the time, and dont get caught. I've heard there are actually websites where these pharmacies pay to advertise
> 
> ...



I'm just pointing out to you the fact that you enjoy getting fucked in the ass by corporate America.


----------



## LAM (Sep 12, 2012)

Zaphod said:


> I'm just pointing out to you the fact that you enjoy getting fucked in the ass by corporate America.



that's what sheep do, they bend over and take it and don't even ask for a reach-around....


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 12, 2012)

LAM said:


> that's what sheep do, they bend over and take it and don't even ask for a reach-around....



so in order to now be a sheep i should be down to pay for other people's shit? this can't be what you are saying to clarify your position..


and enough with all the intellectual autofellatio


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

i guess it's your right to prefer to pay $400 for a medication month after month rather than everyone just paying a few extra dollars in taxes.


----------



## oufinny (Sep 12, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> he is a politician in America not royalty and he works for those people. apparently they find it a farce that he is walking in a LABOR day parade. they also vote.
> 
> and why should ANY medication cost $400. some Americans actually *mind * the corporate and political dick in their ass.



Are you really this fucking naive??  You obviously have no clue what's goes into producing some of the more difficult medications we take. Thank the FDA, patent laws and the amount of time that goes into recouping the research cost. I have a father that did this for 28 years, you are so off base you don't even know where the plate is to try to bat. I lose respect for you more and more with each post; sad day when little wing loses it and starts losing the ability to think.


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 12, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> i guess it's your right to prefer to pay $400 for a medication month after month rather than everyone just paying a few extra dollars in taxes.




uh..yeah.. im not a socialist.



that reminds of this liberal dipshit girl in one of my poli sci classes. Talking about Obamacare, she said "I dont see why everyone cant just pay more taxes so those who dont have healthcare can be covered."


i think that was a couple days before she left to go to burning man


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

it would be hilarious to allow you to keep all your tax money and not benefit in any way from anything that money used to pay for.


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 12, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> it would be hilarious *to allow you to keep all your* tax *money *and not benefit in any way from anything that money used to pay for.




this is really how LW thinks everyone.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

oufinny said:


> Are you really this fucking naive??  You obviously have no clue what's goes into producing some of the more difficult medications we take. Thank the FDA, patent laws and the amount of time that goes into recouping the research cost. I have a father that did this for 28 years, you are so off base you don't even know where the plate is to try to bat. I lose respect for you more and more with each post; sad day when little wing loses it and starts losing the ability to think.



that's a load of bullshit. my step brother has some complicated health issues stemming from cerebral palsy and pharmacies bid on filling his prescriptions. it's fucking bullshit for one to charge $500 and another to say they can fill the same med for $75. greed has more to do with that then anything else. my step sister in law is in medical research. she supports Obamacare and says there's no need for medications to cost what they do here. the same EXACT meds are cheaper in other countries.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> this is really how LW thinks everyone.



so you think there should be no taxes on anything either state or federal?


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 12, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> so you think there should be no taxes on anything either state or federal?




I think there should be a value added tax and a very very low income tax to support a drastically shrunken federal governemnt yes. I believe that my tax dollars should go toward funding the government so that it can perform the duties it is supposed to (secure borders, provide national defense etc.) instead of paying for Mr. fat fuck's quadruple bypass/motor scooter/statins etc.

I personally have not been to the doctor since I was 12. I take no medications, and do not have any health problems. I believe that all people with serious illnesses should either be taken care of by charity, their familes, or evolution and natural selection should be able to run their course


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

oufinny said:


> Are you really this fucking naive??  You obviously have no clue what's goes into producing some of the more difficult medications we take. Thank the FDA, patent laws and the amount of time that goes into recouping the research cost. I have a father that did this for 28 years, you are so off base you don't even know where the plate is to try to bat. I lose respect for you more and more with each post; sad day when little wing loses it and starts losing the ability to think.



the most expensive medications in the world help very few people as they are deigned to treat rare conditions. they are almost always paid for by insurance or governments and often provided to the uninsured for free. that's such a small part of the picture it's not even relevant. it's completely absurd to ignore the greed of pharmaceutical companies. and we all know that big pharma perverts the scientific process to get dangerous drugs approved so don't accuse me of being naive.


----------



## KILLEROFSAINTS (Sep 12, 2012)

it is awesome when kids in school talk about grown up shit like they know anything


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> I think there should be a value added tax and a very very low income tax to support a drastically shrunken federal governemnt yes. I believe that my tax dollars should go toward funding the government so that it can perform the duties it is supposed to (secure borders, provide national defense etc.) instead of paying for Mr. fat fuck's quadruple bypass/motor scooter/statins etc.
> 
> I personally have not been to the doctor since I was 12. I take no medications, and do not have any health problems. I believe that all people with serious illnesses should either be taken care of by charity, their familes, or evolution and natural selection should be able to run their course



i'm more inclined to let a few of my tax dollars help buy a person's medications than i am being forced to pay for some kiddie fuckers meals and comfort in his jail cell. i don't get being so pissed about one and not the other. if a person on any kind of aid is destroying their own health their benefits should be cut to compensate for additional care. if they work their wages should reflect a tax penalty.


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 12, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> i'm more inclined to let a few of my tax dollars help buy a person's medications than i am being forced to pay for some kiddie fuckers meals and comfort in his jail cell.* i don't get being so pissed about one and not the other*. if a person on any kind of aid is destroying their own health their benefits should be cut to compensate for additional care. if they work their wages should reflect a tax penalty.




you are making a bold assumption here. I dont think anyone's taxes should go to pay for _anything_ for _anyone_. that's what charity is for


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

those fat ass tractors are expensive... maybe they should get sent to a fat farm instead. obese people supposedly incur a 42% increase in health care costs so whatever obamacare costs  a fat ass should pay 42% more. maybe that'd be incentive to lose weight. the fattest states oppose obamacare the most btw.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> you are making a bold assumption here. I dont think anyone's taxes should go to pay for _anything_ for _anyone_. that's what charity is for



if we relied on charity to fund prisons they might actually be bad enough for people to fear going.


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 12, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> if we relied on charity to fund prisons they might actually be bad enough for people to fear going.




that wouldnt be such a bad thing.. but yes, charity should provide for everything that people cannot provide for themselves, if charity and people do not have enough to provide for themselves, then they go without.

it's that simple. A lot of people would die, but they would stop dragging the rest of us down with them.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

you should run for President on that sentiment.


----------



## oufinny (Sep 12, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> the most expensive medications in the world help very few people as they are deigned to treat rare conditions. they are almost always paid for by insurance or governments and often provided to the uninsured for free. that's such a small part of the picture it's not even relevant. it's completely absurd to ignore the greed of pharmaceutical companies. and we all know that big pharma perverts the scientific process to get dangerous drugs approved so don't accuse me of being naive.



But you are, I call it like I see it. Big Pharma has its problems, believe me I know as I saw and heard about it daily; you just assume everything costs five dollars and is sold for $400. My asthma medication is overpriced, but it's patent protected still so it costs what it costs. You want to make things cheaper, figure out how companies can reduce research costs and comply with regulations all while making something safe... Call me when your head explodes from trying to find that grain of sand on the beach.


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 12, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> you should run for President on that sentiment.




doesnt sound like such a bad idea, i wish candidates would actually be honest about their positions for once, what a novel concept


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

oufinny said:


> But you are, I call it like I see it. Big Pharma has its problems, believe me I know as I saw and heard about it daily; you just assume everything costs five dollars and is sold for $400. My asthma medication is overpriced, but it's patent protected still so it costs what it costs. You want to make things cheaper, figure out how companies can reduce research costs and comply with regulations all while making something safe... Call me when your head explodes from trying to find that grain of sand on the beach.



it is *not* a rare occurrence for my brother to find a pharmacy willing to fill scripts for less than 25% of what competitors charge.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> doesnt sound like such a bad idea, i wish candidates would actually be honest about their positions for once, what a novel concept



i believe you'd get votes... not enough to win but your view is shared by many.


----------



## LAM (Sep 12, 2012)

oufinny said:


> You want to make things cheaper, figure out how companies can reduce research costs and comply with regulations all while making something safe... Call me when your head explodes from trying to find that grain of sand on the beach.



well they could try following other models used in OECD and rest of the world but that would mean less profits for them


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)




----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

love this one too.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 12, 2012)

John C. Goodman: Why the Doctor Can't See You - WSJ.com


----------



## LAM (Sep 12, 2012)

bio-chem said:


> John C. Goodman: Why the Doctor Can't See You - WSJ.com



the doctor shortage in the US has existed for decades as they US has the least amount of Dr's per capita and beds in hospitals as any other wealthy country in the OECD.  this topic has been beat to death and is old news.

you can thank the expensive medical schools in the US and the AMA for keeping the numbers of Dr's low to keep pay high for that.  can't blame Obama for a problem that started decades ago.

http://www.oecd.org/els/healthpoliciesanddata/41509236.pdf

http://www.oecd.org/health/healthpoliciesanddata/35987490.pdf


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

John C. Goodman, PhD. | NCPA

this guy knows his stuff. i predict more bugs to work out than windows vista.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2012)

in Canada i know sometimes the wait for a dr is long or you can pay to see one sooner. if it's an emergency you go to the er. i think as long as you have a well established relationship with a doctor already you won't notice much difference. no doctors will be forced to perform free check ups etc, insurance will pay them. some of my clients have had a hard time finding doctors that accept their particular insurance but that's been the case since i started doing daycare 20 years ago.


----------



## oufinny (Sep 13, 2012)

LAM said:


> well they could try following other models used in OECD and rest of the world but that would mean less profits for them



Oh solver of all problems, please tell us in your not so expert opinion how you would run the pharmaceutical industry right?  You are an ex-CEO of a big Pharma company right so you obviously have a solution for this like every other problem out there. Or was it an article by yet another non-expert?


----------



## LAM (Sep 13, 2012)

oufinny said:


> Oh solver of all problems, please tell us in your not so expert opinion how you would run the pharmaceutical industry right?  You are an ex-CEO of a big Pharma company right so you obviously have a solution for this like every other problem out there. Or was it an article by yet another non-expert?



it's called using comparative economics and the best practices observed in the OECD.  you see what works and what doesn't in other country's with similar types of democracy's and economy's.  there's 30 country's in the OECD that are older than the US...it's not really rocket science


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 18, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> that's what writing letters and visiting his office is for




Paul Ryan Locks Out Jobless Constituents After Refusing To Meet With Them | Addicting Info

They tried scheduling a meeting and the request was ignored. They  tried sitting in Ryan?s office all day, to no avail. He never showed up.  They wanted to stay in his office all night, but the police were called  and they left peacefully. They then showed up the next day, only to  find the doors locked. The office was open, the unemployed constituents  just were no longer welcome. So, they waited outside. Still, Ryan never  showed up. They were then informed that only paying tenants could use  the restrooms, which further hindered their efforts to see Ryan.  Arriving the next day, they were informed by police that parking had  been restricted by the building owner and that any unauthorized vehicles  would be towed and ticketed. When asked on what authority the police  could prevent access to a public office, they responded that the lot and  building are private property and the landlord has the right to do as  he pleases with it. For these unemployed constituents, it?s beginning to look like Paul  Ryan has no desire to meet with them to hear what they have say.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 26, 2012)

Ayn Rand Railed Against Government Benefits, But Grabbed Social Security and Medicare When She Needed Them | Alternet

Ryan's mentor was a hypocrite.


----------



## Gregzs (Sep 26, 2012)




----------



## Little Wing (Sep 27, 2012)

The Brad Blog - Salon.com

Safeway voter registration 1 - YouTube


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 27, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> The Brad Blog - Salon.com
> 
> Safeway voter registration 1 - YouTube




dumb bitch with the camera has no clue what she's talking about.. she should come to my town and see all the hood-looking niggers signing up democrats. they are pretty aggressive about it too, they really want their free handout

how dare she harass that nice attractive young lady, jealous abounds


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 27, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> Paul Ryan Locks Out Jobless Constituents After Refusing To Meet With Them | Addicting Info
> 
> They tried scheduling a meeting and the request was ignored. They  tried sitting in Ryan?s office all day, to no avail. He never showed up.  They wanted to stay in his office all night, but the police were called  and they left peacefully. They then showed up the next day, only to  find the doors locked. The office was open, the unemployed constituents  just were no longer welcome. So, they waited outside. Still, Ryan never  showed up. They were then informed that only paying tenants could use  the restrooms, which further hindered their efforts to see Ryan.  Arriving the next day, they were informed by police that parking had  been restricted by the building owner and that any unauthorized vehicles  would be towed and ticketed. When asked on what authority the police  could prevent access to a public office, they responded that the lot and  building are private property and the landlord has the right to do as  he pleases with it. For these unemployed constituents, it?s beginning to look like Paul  Ryan has no desire to meet with them to hear what they have say.





hmmmmmmmmm I have a _sneaking suspicion_.. that those "unemployed constituents" were really just a bunch of liberal hecklers trying to harass the shit out of Paul Ryan for a photo/video Op, and I bet he knew it too. Why else would such an intelligent and calculated individual make such a foolish mistake as to ignore these people? The voting block for a Rep is pretty small, so they have to keep their constituents happy, even if they can jeremander their jurisdictions.


LW, try thinking before you post shit.


----------



## hoyle21 (Sep 27, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> hmmmmmmmmm I have a _sneaking suspicion_.. that those "unemployed constituents" were really just a bunch of liberal hecklers trying to harass the shit out of Paul Ryan for a photo/video Op, and I bet he knew it too. Why else would such an intelligent and calculated individual make such a foolish mistake as to ignore these people? The voting block for a Rep is pretty small, so they have to keep their constituents happy, even if they can jeremander their jurisdictions.
> 
> 
> LW, try thinking before you post shit.



What makes Paul Ryan intelligent and calculated?


----------



## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)




----------



## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)




----------



## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)




----------



## LAM (Sep 27, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> hmmmmmmmmm I have a _sneaking suspicion_.. that those "unemployed constituents" were really just a bunch of liberal hecklers trying to harass the shit out of Paul Ryan for a photo/video Op, and I bet he knew it too.



right because every unemployed person in the US is a liberal because conservatives  are perfect but somehow all of the historical conservative red states all rank at the bottom for income, education and healthcare and they receive more federal tax dollars from the system than they pay into.

you might actually want to look at the historical data and the effectiveness of conservative policy, it's a little less than totally unimpressive...


----------



## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)




----------



## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)




----------



## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)




----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 27, 2012)

hoyle21 said:


> What makes Paul Ryan intelligent and calculated?



i mean relatively


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 27, 2012)

LAM said:


> right because every unemployed person in the US is a liberal because conservatives  are perfect but somehow all of the historical conservative red states all rank at the bottom for income, education and healthcare and they receive more federal tax dollars from the system than they pay into.
> 
> you might actually want to look at the historical data and the effectiveness of conservative policy, it's a little less than totally unimpressive...




well the fact they receive any government assistance is socialist policy not conservative 

i said sneaking suspicion.. idk liberals just seem annoying as fuck.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 27, 2012)

jay_steel said:


>



are you telling me the comments aren't true. we don't have the fattest people on the planet while others starve? we don't kill innocent people? white people don't say these same things? damn America for our greed wars?


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 27, 2012)

jay_steel said:


>



aren't we killing women and children under the guise of bringing them democracy?


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 27, 2012)

jay_steel said:


>





Her name is GloZell and she is a YouTube comic. She was not being  serious and she's basically parodying this stereotypical view.


GloZell's Reality Show Life - YouTube


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 27, 2012)

Eat the bad kids Bern Switzerland GloZell & SK - YouTube

i don't think many welfare people could afford trips to Switzerland etc.

and this is her blog.

LIVE GREEN... Google GloZell1 on You Tube

 but hey, if you're more comfortable making racist assumptions go for it.


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## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> aren't we killing women and children under the guise of bringing them democracy?



So you rationalize that its ok for them to say Kill white babies... These guys are tools, and again its your President that increased the surge on Afgan... Is is the one that lied about pulling out of Iraq and took over 3 years to even begin. I never said Bush was good, but that does not make Obama right. He could have ended it over night if he wanted to. He would have pissed people off but he could have ended the war and saved lives. So he is more at fault then any one. Bush went to war to fight terrorism because we were attacked, he fault is he didn't know when to stop. We should have pulled out in 2008. 

2008 was my last deployment 2nd time in Iraq. First time I was able to walk the streets with out fear of dying. That is when we should have went home.


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## Little Wing (Sep 27, 2012)

jay_steel said:


> So you rationalize that its ok for them to say Kill white babies... These guys are tools, and again its your President that increased the surge on Afgan... Is is the one that lied about pulling out of Iraq and took over 3 years to even begin. I never said Bush was good, but that does not make Obama right. He could have ended it over night if he wanted to. He would have pissed people off but he could have ended the war and saved lives. So he is more at fault then any one. Bush went to war to fight terrorism because we were attacked, he fault is he didn't know when to stop. We should have pulled out in 2008.
> 
> 2008 was my last deployment 2nd time in Iraq. First time I was able to walk the streets with out fear of dying. That is when we should have went home.



no shit they are tools but in this country the kkk is still allowed to meet and speak their minds. 

a lot of Americans love this country and military but still want it scaled back, it has to be. we can't afford to support it right now as is. if i have way many workers than i need i can't keep them all on just to be nice.


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## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> are you telling me the comments aren't true. we don't have the fattest people on the planet while others starve? we don't kill innocent people? white people don't say these same things? damn America for our greed wars?



Our country is the fattest because we are the laziest, because we cater to peoples needs and give out hand outs. We allow our weak to be weaker. We keep our poor poor. Instead of giving them welfare give them a damn job. Put them to work. Obama has done shit to make more jobs all he did was increase unemployment to better his vote because he kept the weak weak and the poor poor.

Also if you truly believe the words Damn America for our greed wars... Tell me what does this mean? 

It is the poverty that is greedy. Upper class gets blamed for being greedy for what earning their money and doing what ever it takes to become successful and keep their money?

While the poor keeps asking for more and begs for handouts... That is greed... I would love to see the rich stop donating and see what happens. I make great money and give 20% of my income to charitable organizations that I believe in but I would rather shoot my self in the head then give a free dollar to some one who is lazy.


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## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> no shit they are tools but in this country the kkk is still allowed to meet and speak their minds.



question when did I ever side with the KKK? You are throwing shit out of know where that pertains to nothing...

Every one has the right to free speech, just as they have the right to say kill white babies. I never said they don't have that right, but I am disgusted with it and think of them as vermin of people.


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## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)

Your rations are basically if its ok for some one else to do it, its ok for them to do it even though its wrong...


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## Little Wing (Sep 27, 2012)

no greed is going to war for resources.


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## Little Wing (Sep 27, 2012)

jay_steel said:


> Your rations are basically if its ok for some one else to do it, its ok for them to do it even though its wrong...



i think both sides are being assholes but in this country we have a thing called free speech.


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## Little Wing (Sep 27, 2012)

jay_steel said:


> Our country is the fattest because we are the laziest, because we cater to peoples needs and give out hand outs. We allow our weak to be weaker. We keep our poor poor. Instead of giving them welfare give them a damn job. Put them to work. Obama has done shit to make more jobs all he did was increase unemployment to better his vote because he kept the weak weak and the poor poor.
> 
> Also if you truly believe the words Damn America for our greed wars... Tell me what does this mean?
> 
> ...



it's complete bullshit to blame Obama for job issues 
*
Eager to shoot down President Obama's legislative agenda just weeks  before the election, Senate Republicans on Wednesday blocked a measure  that would have provided $1 billion over five years to help veterans  find work in their communities.*


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## Little Wing (Sep 27, 2012)

when you're a veteran and need a job or health care Romeny is going to tell you to go fuck yourself. Good luck with that.


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## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> no greed is going to war for resources.



The last war we went to for resources was Desert Storm and your an idiot if you thing that was shouldn't have happened. We went in and got out, that is how a war is suppose to be. Not this long drawn out war that bush and obama created. YES Obama is just as responsible for this war as Bush.

We went to war in Kuwait to stop Iraq from taking over Kuwait and taking control of the oil. We did not go to war and take resources your an idiot if you believe that. If we went to war to take resources Kuwait would not be part of America. Saddam went to take control of Kuwait to control the worlds oil... This would have effected EVERY one not just America. By not going to that war would be like not going to war against Hitler. Both wanted to take over power. So lets say we never went to war in Kuwait in the early 90's and aloud Iraq to take over...

The United Nations would probably have disowned us for not coming to aid under the policy of containment and Saddam would be a super power. Not to mention that most of our oil that we purchase comes from Canada and Mexico and not the middle east. Also hell year we fought for resources, resources=life. With out any type of resources in general we can not sustain life if that is taken away you are damaging the lively hoods of people not just America. 

So if I understand you correctly...

Answer this... 

You believe we should have allowed Saddam to take over Kuwait? 
You believe we should have allowed Saddam to have control of the WORLDS oil. 
You Believe that we should not have listened to our allies when they asked us for help?


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## Little Wing (Sep 27, 2012)

i recently saw all this shit about Romney helped create 52,000 jobs. it turns out it was Kohl's hiring seasonal workers for the holidays and guess what.... seasonal workers don't even have to be paid minimum wage.


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## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> when you're a veteran and need a job or health care Romeny is going to tell you to go fuck yourself. Good luck with that.



You have no proof of this... Period...

What I do know is that Obama has all ready waived his middle finger at the troops and vets so why not try a new president. Mitt has all ready made appearances on multiple bases and meet with centcom to discuss what its going to take to get the troops back in the military that want to come back in... Obama as done shit for that...

By saying you know Romney would do this you know he would do that... You dont know shit what he would do. You have no clue what he would do. For all we know he can be the best or worst president... What we do know is the Obama is fucking lair and a pile of shit. So why keep the shit around even longer.


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## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> i recently saw all this shit about Romney helped create 52,000 jobs. it turns out it was Kohl's hiring seasonal workers for the holidays and guess what.... seasonal workers don't even have to be paid minimum wage.




What jobs has Obama created other then in other countries?


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## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)

I am not a huge fan of Romney, I would love Ron Paul... But most of all I want this socialist liar out of office...


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## Little Wing (Sep 27, 2012)

if we really go to war to not just stand idly by and watch atrocities why are our efforts centered around oil and oil rich areas and not spread out all over where other atrocities are happening?


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## Little Wing (Sep 27, 2012)

jay_steel said:


> What jobs has Obama created other then in other countries?




New data shows Obama may be a job creator, after all - Sep. 27, 2012

Since early 2010, jobs have slowly been trickling back,  particularly in professional services, health care and manufacturing.As of August, the Labor Department had indicated about 4 million jobs had been recovered overall. 

Hiring has barely been strong enough to keep up with population growth, and that's why the unemployment rate is still stuck at 8.1%.                 


so since population growth plays a part in this the sensible thing would be to get a guy in office that is against abortion and birth control.


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## Standard Donkey (Sep 27, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> New data shows Obama may be a job creator, after all - Sep. 27, 2012
> 
> Since early 2010, jobs have slowly been trickling back,  particularly in professional services, health care and manufacturing.As of August, the Labor Department had indicated about 4 million jobs had been recovered overall.
> 
> ...





lol nope.. wrong again

Weak orders point to sharp slowdown in manufacturing | Reuters

also the unemployment has dropped to 8.1% because people have given up, not found jobs.


and that 4 million jobs is gross, not net. 787 billion dollars to create 4 million jobs (again, gross..not net) comes out to just under 200k per job  job creator indeed


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## Standard Donkey (Sep 27, 2012)

and of course that's not even mentioning all the quantative easing that has transpired/is transpiring


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## oufinny (Sep 27, 2012)

That's a whole lot of baseless conjecture and you know it. Source that statement or stop making assumptions; that's like me saying O'Bama will give reparations to blacks in his second term, I know he will! It's a ridiculous statement I can't back up, neither can you do that with yours.


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## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> lol nope.. wrong again
> 
> Weak orders point to sharp slowdown in manufacturing | Reuters
> 
> ...



This is facts... Obama would rather keep people on welfare and unemployed because it makes him stronger. What is funny is what he said in 2008. I don't remember the exact numbers but he was bragging how Clinton raised the average income by 7,500 and then Bush dropped it 2,000. Where he has now dropped us even lower then what Clinton brought us up too. He fail, he gave it his best shot and failed... I mean fuck we hold our NFL teams more accountable then our president... If our QB fails we gut him and find a replacement fast. If our president fails we make excuses for him. 

I mean shit Tim Tebow turned a losing Bronco's around to a play off team (I hate the broncos as much as Obama) and they gut him fast to get Payton.. I love foot ball but serious I think America has shit twisted, the poor are the greedy not the rich white people... The rich white people are trying to keep there companies afloat which will employ others where the poor all they think about is them selves and not America. You think half those people give two shits about out country. All they care about is if they get that gov't check or not. I am sure there is a 10% that are great people but I don't live in dream land.


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## Little Wing (Sep 27, 2012)

jay_steel said:


> The rich white people are trying to keep their companies afloat which will employ more Chinese



fixed


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## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> fixed



Yes, it does employ more over seas business, but just as your flawed thread before. Where I compared the price of the clothing made in the US to outsourced. No one could afford to purchase stuff from your little web site and who would even wear half that shit. 

Also there are more jobs created domestically. Just because every thing is produced over seas does not mean that are no marketing, sales, distribution, and ect here. Lets say Apple never outsourced. They are one the biggest outsourced companies there are. They have over 500,00 jobs created in the United States. I think Apple alone probably produces more jobs then Obama from outsourcing. With out outsourcing Apple there is no way there product would be even affordable or at worst even be an Apple because there is no way they could produce the same product at the price.


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## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If any one is interested also or dealing with drug related issues PM me, I can get you in touch with our non-profit for any type of help and support. Also if your located in the central valley of CA I can get you involved with our program.[/FONT]


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## oufinny (Sep 27, 2012)

jay_steel said:


> The last war we went to for resources was Desert Storm and your an idiot if you thing that was shouldn't have happened. We went in and got out, that is how a war is suppose to be. Not this long drawn out war that bush and obama created. YES Obama is just as responsible for this war as Bush.
> 
> We went to war in Kuwait to stop Iraq from taking over Kuwait and taking control of the oil. We did not go to war and take resources your an idiot if you believe that. If we went to war to take resources Kuwait would not be part of America. Saddam went to take control of Kuwait to control the worlds oil... This would have effected EVERY one not just America. By not going to that war would be like not going to war against Hitler. Both wanted to take over power. So lets say we never went to war in Kuwait in the early 90's and aloud Iraq to take over...
> 
> ...



Sad dam invaded Kuwait because the Kuwaitis were horizontal drilling into wells in Iraq; they found out and were pissed. You didn't see that on the news but its the reason. The reason you had a huge coalition is because the oil price spike from a dictator controlling that much oil was worth the risk of a war.  You want to look at the instigator, look at Kuwait and the oil companies that got greedy next door to a trigger happy dictator...


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## Little Wing (Sep 27, 2012)

jay_steel said:


> Yes, it does employ more over seas business, but just as your flawed thread before. Where I compared the price of the clothing made in the US to outsourced. No one could afford to purchase stuff from your little web site and who would even wear half that shit.
> 
> Also there are more jobs created domestically. Just because every thing is produced over seas does not mean that are no marketing, sales, distribution, and ect here. Lets say Apple never outsourced. They are one the biggest outsourced companies there are. They have over 500,00 jobs created in the United States. I think Apple alone probably produces more jobs then Obama from outsourcing. With out outsourcing Apple there is no way there product would be even affordable or at worst even be an Apple because there is no way they could produce the same product at the price.



outsourced is a nice way to say get it made by slaves overseas.


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## LAM (Sep 27, 2012)

oufinny said:


> Sad dam invaded Kuwait because the Kuwaitis were horizontal drilling into wells in Iraq; they found out and were pissed. You didn't see that on the news but its the reason. The reason you had a huge coalition is because the oil price spike from a dictator controlling that much oil was worth the risk of a war.  You want to look at the instigator, look at Kuwait and the oil companies that got greedy next door to a trigger happy dictator...



Saddam invaded Kuwait because he tried to invade Iran and got his ass handed to him even with all the goodies that Reagan and Bush Sr sold to him....


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## Little Wing (Sep 29, 2012)

*http://americablog.com/2012/09/pres-romney-phones-netanyahu-hours-after-obama-does-same-to-talk-iran.html

Romney phones Netanyahu hours after Obama does same*


butting into a national security crisis has been Romney's plan all  along.  He admitted it on the 47% video.  Not only did we already know  that Romney's staff saw the assassination of an American ambassador as"an opportunity," but Romney  himself admitted that he would like to have his own "opportunity," like  the Iran hostage crisis, in order to butt in and show how presidential  he could be.


*Romney phones Netanyahu hours after Obama does same*



What is Mitt Romney doing getting involved in US foreign policy  to the degree that he's now ambulance-chasing the President's phone  calls to world leaders over possible future wars in the Middle East?

Israel/Iran via Shutterstock.

President  Obama and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke Friday by  telephone, ending the call with a common pledge to stop Iran from  acquiring a nuclear weapon but no apparent consensus on a specific  timeline to do so.A few hours later, Republican nominee Mitt Romney  spoke by phone with Netanyahu, his one-time consulting colleague and a  friend since the 1970s. *After the call, Romney said that he does not believe* military force will have to be used to stop Iran's uranium enrichment program.

​*Nobody asked, you Mitt.*


 It's time someone had an intervention, and explained to Mr. Romney  that it was bad enough when he pulled an Al "I"m in charge" Haig hours  after a US ambassador was murdered in Libya, and then made things worse  the next morning by holding a press conference in on a dais made up to  look like the White House briefing room.  But now he?s butting his nose  into the Iran nuclear crisis and our relations with Israel on the an  issue that could lead to war.
 Who does this guy think he is?
 The hubris - and the utter lack of understanding of the risk of what  he"s doing by undercutting the American president while hes attempting  to avoid a potential nuclear stand-off with a terror state.  Not to  mention, with Romney's history of foreign policy disasters, the last  thing he should be doing is injecting himself into the Iran nuclear  crisis.
 Maybe he could start with something easy, like Liechtenstein, and work his way up.

*But butting into a national security crisis has been Romney's plan  all along. * He admitted it on the 47% video.  Not only did we already  know that Romney's staff saw the assassination of an American ambassador as "an opportunity," but Romney  himself admitted that he would like to have his own "opportunity," like  the Iran hostage crisis, in order to butt in and show how presidential  he could be.

Questioner: When Carter was president, we had hostages.  Ronald Reagan was able to make a statement even before he became, he was  actually sworn in, and the hostages were released?
Mitt Romney: On the day of his inauguration.


*Questioner: Right. So my question is really how can you sort of duplicate that scenario?*
*Romney: I could ask you, I could ask you how you do I duplicate that scenario?*
 Questioner: I think it had to do with the fact that the Iranians  perceived Reagan? That?s why I?m suggesting that something that you say  over the next few months gets the Iranians to understand that their  pursuit of the bomb is something that you would prevent. And I think  that?s something that could possibly resonate very well with the  American public.
 Romney: I appreciate the idea. One of the things that?s frustrating  to me: in a typical day like this, when I do three or four events like  this, the number of foreign policy questions I get is between zero and  one. And the American people are not concentrated at all on China, on  Russia, Iran, Iraq, and this President?s failure to put in place a  status of forces agreement allowing ten to twenty thousand troops to  stay in Iraq - unthinkable! And yet, in that election, in the Jimmy  Carter election, the fact that we had hostages in Iran, I mean, that was  all we talked about. And we had the two helicopters crash in the  desert, I mean, that was the focus, and so him solving that made all the  difference in the world. I?m afraid today that if you simply got Iran  to agree to stand down on nuclear weapons, they?d go, ?Now hold on. It?s  really a-? I mean, *if something of that nature presents itself I will work to find a way to take advantage of the opportunity*.​Let me repeat that. ?If something of that nature presents itself I  will work to find a way to take advantage of the opportunity.?
 That?s all Mitt Romney has left. The ?opportunity? of American lives  being at risk. That?s why stuck his nose into the Libya/Egypt crisis.  And it?s why he?s now sticking his nose into our attempts to talk Israel  down from starting a nuclear war in the Middle East. Because Mitt  Romney is looking for the opportunity to put American lives at risk and  then rush in to save the day.
 It?s almost a messianic view of his existence. Romney believes he?s America?s political messiah. The mere fact of his being elected president, before he?s even sworn into office, will save the American economy.?My own view is that if we win on November 6th, there  will be a great deal of optimism about the future of this country. We?ll  see capital come back and we?ll see ? without actually doing anything ?  we?ll actually get a boost in the economy.?​And he thinks the same about any and all crises the US faces between  now and the election. Super Romney of Nazareth will descend from on  high, and his mere presence will convince Israel to forgo war just as  his sheer will is lowering the unemployment rate.
 Of course the irony is that at the same time Romney has this almost  messianic view of his own power to resolve crises, he admitted on the  47% percent that he can?t resolve the Middle East?s problems, and isn?t  interested in doing so.
 Then what was he doing butt in to them in the first place?  He was playing politics with our national security.
Mitt Romney?s wife worries about his mental health if elected.
 I worry about his mental health today.


fucking dangerous lunatic.


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## Little Wing (Sep 29, 2012)

Romney phones Netanyahu hours after Obama does same - AMERICAblog | AMERICAblog


sorry. no one has fixed the scripting bug and you only have ten minutes to edit.

Maybe Romney should call Prince.


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## Little Wing (Sep 29, 2012)

Let me repeat that. "If something of that nature presents itself I  will  work to find a way to take advantage of the opportunity."

 That's all Mitt Romney has left. The "opportunity" of American lives   being at risk. That's why stuck his nose into the Libya/Egypt crisis.   And it's why he's now sticking his nose into our attempts to talk Israel   down from starting a nuclear war in the Middle East. Because Mitt   Romney is looking for the opportunity to put American lives at risk and   then rush in to save the day.

tool


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