# Trying to bulk up, see if I'm on the right track



## Rdub9281 (Nov 14, 2013)

So gonna b a long post, but here's what I look like now, planning on catching up in about 3-6 months. I feel I'm fairly toned, with low body fat, just wanting to put on some overall mass. I'm 5'8 about 145 pounds. I'm on a 5-8 rep, 4 days a week, 3 excercise per body part program. I eat  on average 4,000 calories a day, and going up. Every week I'm doing better some days I may get close to 5, but 4 on average. If anyone sees anything I'm doing wrong or has any tips or critiques, let me know, thanks guys!


You wanna be the best, you gotta take out the best


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## Dr.G (Nov 14, 2013)

what you are doing wrong is you are planning on gaining fat and loosing your tone. what you want is gain muscle mass not fat. this takes a very long time. unless you are taking AAS or growth hormones, the extra calories will make you fat. just eat healthy and lift good you can do more reps with slow negatives. gaining naturally lean muscle and no fat takes years of dedication. you can add a layer of fat on your muscles you will look bigger but you will lose your definition. also try to eat at the right time the right stuff, for example carbs 2 hours before working out , lean protein after etc....i am not a nutrition expert i think many here can help you. a good fresh juice is good after the gym though.


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## celticthug (Nov 14, 2013)

I'd have to agree you may be pushing too many cals.Unless you have a REAL fast metabolism.Your just gonna gain a layer of fat.You know 5 lbs of muscle in a year is ALOT.4 or 5 years and you could have 20lbs more muscle.Thats if your lucky.Even with steroids it not as easy as people make it out to be.Least not the ones who know what there talking about. 400-500 extra cals then maintenance,from protein,is a good place to start.Nothing wrong with your weight program.But since we are talking about years of lifting here.Two things.Your gonna get board with the same training.Sum higher reps and volume training are a good switch up.Myself I prefer a heavy weight,lowwer rep,and lower sets.But brings me too #2.If you train heavy all the time? Your gonna run into injuries.Lighter weights give tendons and ligaments a chance to recover.So have fun with it,and settle in for the long haul.


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## Rdub9281 (Nov 14, 2013)

All I'm saying is everyone else I've talked to on here says u cannot eat enough. Period.i eat a lot of good quality lean foods, with a chest meal a day because yes my metabolism is crazy fast. I've been told on here 4000 is nothing and some people get that before their day is half over. I also get a lot of protein, and I live a very active lifestyle, so getting fat is not even a worry haha from what my body has shown me it cannot happen, not at this age. Later on ill have to change that sure, but not now


You wanna be the best, you gotta take out the best


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## rage racing (Nov 15, 2013)

Whats your diet look like?...be specific. You may THINK your eating 4K cal a day but maybe not. I am a hard gainer and I literally have to eat like every 3hrs (500-800 cal per meal....7-9 times a day) when I try to bulk up. I thought I was eating alot but when I did the math I wasnt. Eating clean and eating alot of calories is not that easy...


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## Rdub9281 (Nov 15, 2013)

It's very hard actually. I just go off the nutritional facts when I'm cooking something, or eating something packaged. And a lot of chicken, beef, and potatoes would b my main things. But I get about 12-1500 a day just from shakes. I'm the hardest gainer I kno my metabolism is insane


You wanna be the best, you gotta take out the best


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## Powerlifter94 (Nov 15, 2013)

Food! what are you taking in?


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## ElitePeptides (Nov 15, 2013)

How old are you bro? Hard to tell from pics.. Easier to gain weight as you get older.


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## Dr.G (Nov 16, 2013)

remember the hardest workout will consume 400 cal . you need about 100 g probably of protein ,,....so you probably need about 500 to 800 extra calories than a usual person for workout and muscle growth. anything extra even protein calories will be strored as fat , will make your liver and kidney suffer and will not do any good at all. and 4000 cal a day is much more than you need. so adding more calories is useless. true muscle mass will come with years of training and with age. anything you add quickly will be fat. as celtichug said 5 lbs of pure muscle a year is very good and very hard. you can get 10 lbs a month but it wont be muscle.


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## JerseyDevil (Nov 16, 2013)

Only you can figure how many calories and macros work for you.  There is no set number.  You look to be a ecto-meso soma type so high calories with a clean diet would not surprise me.  My advice is to use diet tracking software like FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal and try to be as accurate as possible.  If those pics are current I'd say your bf is around 10%.  Aim for packing in the calories but not going above 12%-13% bodyfat. Without drugs it will be a long process and 7-10 lbs a year is good progress, but I have seen guys your size put on close to 20 lbs drug free, with only 2-3% gain in bodyfat.  And guess what?  It's OK to have cheat meals during the week.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Nov 16, 2013)

Rdub9281 said:


> All I'm saying is everyone else I've talked to on here says u cannot eat enough.



*You CAN Eat Too Much*

You can only grow muscle so fast.  As other have stated, any surplus of calories are then stored as body fat.  

*Gaining Body Fat*

Very few individuals can only muscle mass.  On a weight gaining program, you are going to add some body fat. 

*Muscle:Fat Ratio*

There are a multitude of factors that determine how much muscle to fat weight you gain.  

However, you caloric intake is one of those major factors. 

*Caloric Intake*

Gaining weight is all about taking in more calories than you burn.  

As most have stated, increasing you caloric intake around 400 -500 kcal a day is recommended.

*Eating 4000 kcal A Day*

There is an inherent problem in consuming that many calories.  

It has to do with...

*The General Adaptation Syndrome,* Hans Selye

The Cliff Note version of this is that you body adapts to training, diet, environment, etc.  

However, the adaptation goes through a process.

What that means is that you will initially gain weight on 4000 kcal a day.  

Then your metabolism will adapt to 4000 kcal a day and you will stop gaining weight.

That means to continue to gain weight you will need to take...

*The Next Step*

The next step is to increase your caloric intake to 5000 kcal a day or more. 

At some point, that will stop working and you going to need to increase you caloric intake beyond that. 

*A Better Method*

Increasing you caloric intake between 400-500 kcal above you metabolic rate insure you will gain weight.  

You will end up putting on more muscle and less fat with this method that the mega calorie system.

Kenny Croxdale


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## Rdub9281 (Nov 17, 2013)

Power lifter, mainly chicken,beef, potatoes. I'm 21 and I'm not gonna sit here and say I eat clean all day everyday, but the point is my body fat never changes, and it's hard for me to gain weight period. I could lay around and eat cake all day and not gain, so I'm trying to just up my amount of calories, mainly clean foods with 1 cheat me a day maybe, and 2 big protein shakes everyday. Very helpful jersey and Kenny. So as long as the food is clean for the most part, and my training is on point, I think I'm I ally doing things rifht


You wanna be the best, you gotta take out the best


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## Rdub9281 (Nov 17, 2013)

High weight/low rep

Mon-chest/triceps
Bench press
175-8
175-8
185-6
Skull crushers(25lb)
65-12
75-10
85-8
Cable crossover
40-10(hold)
40-8(long hold on last 2)
Tricep pull downs 
100-12
110-10
120-8
Incline Dumbbell press
35-10
40-8
50-6
Dips
45+25-15
45+35-12
45+35-12


Tues-back/bi's
Lat pull-downs
130-8(front)
130-8
120-6behind
Preacher curls(25lb bar)
80-8
80-8
90-6
Bent over row
135-8
140-8
145-6
Static curls
25-16
20-16
30-12
Back crossover flys
60-12
70-10
80-5
Cable curls
90-12
90-10
100-6

Thurs-legs/forearms
Squats
165-8
165-8
185-4
195-4
Reverse curls(25lb bar)
55-8
55-8
65-5
Barbell calf raises
185-12(slow!)
185-12
105-8
Db wrist curls(burnout/1set)
35
25
15
Seated calf raises
90-20(full extension)
90-20
115-12
Leg extensions
100-15
110-12
130-8
Bb Wrist curls

Fri-shoulders/traps/abs
Shoulder press
135-8
135-8
145-6
Leg raises
15
12
10
Bb shrugs
145-12(slow)
145-12
185-6(long hold on last 2)
Side twists
25-60
35-50
35-50
Seated shoulder raise
15-10(hold last 2)
20-8(hold last 2)
25-4(hold last)
Dumbbell shrugs
50-15(slow)
60-10
70-5
Standing shoulder raise
25-12
30-10
35-7

My whole program. Just switched gyms , this 1 has less equipment, so gonna go back to other 1 next month, and leg and back day will b improved, I had a solid program at my other gym and just raised the weight and lowered my reps, does this look decent? It's clearly working I go up every week, but other than that let me know what you thibk


You wanna be the best, you gotta take out the best


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## Dr.G (Nov 19, 2013)

not sure if i understood the sequence in each workout  but try not to switch from chest to triceps and back to chest gain because you will not be able to train your chest properly if your triceps are overworked. finish chest at least the main exercises then go on with triceps, same with back and biceps. you can go ahead and go for a light weight bench press to failure set after finishing triceps. 
for bigger muscles keep the rep range 8-15 slow negatives. for smaller muscles keep your rep range 6-12. a short pause at full contraction is good. smooth movements with negatives slower than positives without locking joints. focus on the muscle being worked. rest 30 sec to 1 minute between sets for small muscles and 45 sec to 2 minutes for larger muscles. supersets and dropsets are welcome. leave the gym all pumped up rather than exhausted. give a muscle group at least 2 days rest.
good luck!


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## Rdub9281 (Nov 20, 2013)

Thx dr.g, and also as far as a pump goes, I'm getting better and better pumps every day, and it's a great feeling but I kno all a pump really is, is more blood flow in ur muscles right? Well I feel that I look and feel better WHILE I'm lifting every single week, but as far as Saturday morning one off day, I look the same. Is there anything u can do to make these pumps stay around, or basically what I'm saying I wanna make sure I'm not doing something wrong to have great results after a workout, but then lose it the next day.


You wanna be the best, you gotta take out the best


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## Dr.G (Nov 20, 2013)

it is normal to lose the pump  the next day , it does not stay all the time, pump is blood flow giving nutrients to your muscles. your muscles will grow slowly. but you have to rest well between workouts. results will come with time. you should leave the gym well pumped not tired and overtrained. right after a good workout drink some fresh fruit punch , you can add to it some protein. then 15 minutes later eat some protein about 30-40g . sleep well, a given muscle group should be given at least 2 days of rest preferably 3-4 days till the next workout with the exception of abs that you can train every other day.


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## LAM (Nov 20, 2013)

Rdub9281 said:


> So gonna b a long post, but here's what I look like now, planning on catching up in about 3-6 months. I feel I'm fairly toned, with low body fat, just wanting to put on some overall mass. I'm 5'8 about 145 pounds. I'm on a 5-8 rep, 4 days a week, 3 excercise per body part program. I eat  on average 4,000 calories a day, and going up. Every week I'm doing better some days I may get close to 5, but 4 on average. If anyone sees anything I'm doing wrong or has any tips or critiques, let me know, thanks guys!
> 
> 
> You wanna be the best, you gotta take out the best



if you want to add mass then you need to focus on compound exercises and up those reps.  to stimulate hypertrophy the optimum time under tension (TUT) is 45-60 seconds per set at loads at or around 85% of the 1RM.

at 5'8 and 145 it's probably a safe assumption that your legs are a little on the light side, you need to focus on them the same if not more than your upper body if you want to pack on some real mass.


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## Dr.G (Nov 21, 2013)

^^squats and deadlifts will help for sure but executed with perfect form and reps 10-15. squats and deadlifts are very beneficial exercises if done properly BUT they can be very detrimental and cause bad injury if done badly. the  key here is : perfect form, moderate weight.


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## theCaptn' (Nov 21, 2013)

OP if you're serious hire a coach - best money you'll ever spend


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## Rdub9281 (Nov 21, 2013)

Thx guys and cap'n, as far as a coach goes, I need no help being motivated, or getting in there and getting shit done whatever it is I'm doing, but someone just to simply make a solid program, would b great. I make my own stuff up As I go, getting stuff off the internet, and then put them all together in a program and do that for about 3 or 4 months. So do u think it would really b worth it, or jus try and get a solid program and b ok? And for reps I keep getting different answers guys, 1 days more reps 1 says less, ahh! Haha 


You wanna be the best, you gotta take out the best


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## Dr.G (Nov 21, 2013)

^^^ it is good to experiment in the gym and change routines. the important is how you execute these routines. you can follow the main guidelines i stated in my third post about your routine. 
perfect form and smooth movements you dont want any injuries , you want to BUILD your body not destroy it .


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## theCaptn' (Nov 21, 2013)

A coach is way more than just motivation. Tweaks to your diet and training make all the difference and set you up with knowledge for the future. 

^^^ that's a good coach, there's plenty of shit ones who'll just take your money and give you a generic programme.


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## Rdub9281 (Nov 22, 2013)

Thanks guys, I'm looking to start my first cycle, gonna go with m-sten rx in about a month. If u wouldn't mind chiming in on I then I put it up, I'll have the exact cycle before I order, and also wanna know if I should up, lower, or stay the same on my reps so I can. Make the best of those 8 weeks 


You wanna be the best, you gotta take out the best


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## Dr.G (Nov 22, 2013)

^^^ not familiar with m sten rx it was not there in my time - however in general anything that will interfere with your hormones is not recommended at your age. you are young and at your peak of testosterone and GH production , you dont want to mess with that. starting steroids at that age will give you only short lived results and will mess you up in the long run. i have seen bodybuilders who are 25 years old who really messed up and would have been bigger if they had stayed natural.
take advantage of your age rather than killing that advantage,  you will  shut down your system to artificially replace it , you dont take out a perfect tooth and replace it with an implant!. 
nothing beats nature!


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## dave 236 (Nov 22, 2013)

Rdub9281 said:


> Thanks guys, I'm looking to start my first cycle, gonna go with m-sten rx in about a month. If u wouldn't mind chiming in on I then I put it up, I'll have the exact cycle before I order, and also wanna know if I should up, lower, or stay the same on my reps so I can. Make the best of those 8 weeks
> 
> 
> You wanna be the best, you gotta take out the best



You really do not want to delve into AAS at this point. You are too young and to be honest too small for that to be necessary. You should do everything else you can do to improve your self from a size and strength perspective before going that route. M-sten is a pretty potent designer and will shut down your natural production and require you to go through a pct that also comes with its own set of issues. Just eat well at around 500 cals above maintenance and adjust accordingly as you grow. If you want to add some supplements then creatine, beta alanine, and bcaas are your safest and best bet at this time. Good luck. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


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## Rdub9281 (Nov 22, 2013)

I appreciate all the help and mean no
Disrespect, but have u read up
On the m-sten? I've read hundreds of
Reviews and have no negative feedback. Says the side effects are practically nothing. Some people got high blood pressure that's it, and if I did it with ultra male, and a proper pct like clomid, is that not good? If not u kno ill def listen to u guys u know more than me I'm
Just saying that's all


You wanna be the best, you gotta take out the best


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## dave 236 (Nov 22, 2013)

^^^^ read all about it and used it. Maybe no side for you but maybe there will be but my point is it will not raise your testosterone levels above what they are now enough to make much difference and you probably will will experince a few sides from pct that are also not worth it at your present level of training and age. Don't be in too big a hurry to play with your hormones as youll have plenty of time later when you're more mature physically for that. Don't take this wrong msten is a quality product but you do not regardless of what you've read know enough about what any aas actually do at this time. You should look more into this and consider it seriously before going that route.  Im no prude when it comes to gear and i have used most substances at one time or another. What im advising us wait another 2-3 yrs and get as far as you can naturally 1st. Of course you're young and will do what you want as did I and so many others but ill bet most of them will give you very similar advice if asked. Hope you see what i mean.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


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## Kenny Croxdale (Nov 23, 2013)

Rdub9281 said:


> as a pump goes, I'm getting better and better pumps every day, and it's a great feeling but I kno all a pump really is, is more blood flow in ur muscles right?



*The Pump*

The pump provide an anabolic environment for muscle growth.

*2 Mechanisms for Rapid Muscle Growth*
T NATION | 2 Mechanisms for Rapid Muscle Growth

This article explain two of the three mechanism that elicit muscle growth.  

It is based on Brad Schenfeld's research article,  "THE MECHANISMS OF MUSCLE HYPERTROPHY AND THEIR APPLICATION TO RESISTANCE TRAINING".  

1) Mechanical Tension.  This primarily relates to an increase in Limit Strength, max strength.

2) Metabolic Stress.  This is produced with The Pump.  The pump is created when blood venous blood flow back to the heart from the muscle is restricted.  

The restriction to the venous blood flow is cause when a muscle contraction occurs.  The muscle contraction minimizing blood flow.  

The blood become trapped in the muscles.  

*Balloon Analogy*

You blow air into the balloon and do on allow (restrict) air to come out.  

The balloon increases in size, create a "Pump". 

3) Muscle Damage

The right amount of muscular stress on the muscle combined with the right amount recovery allows the muscles to super compensate.  To some extent, there is some validity to Nietzsche's "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger" and bigger. 

However it too much stress occurs it can produce: overreaching, overtraining and/or injury.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## Rdub9281 (Nov 23, 2013)

Ok Dave I'll def re consider, I kno some ppl r impatient and say I just wanna get big now and blah blah, but I've been hitting it hard for over a year now, and have seen drastic changes, I'm just naturally such a small guy I mean u can see from the pictures and I weigh about 145 pounds, if I didn't work out I would b a little pussy and weigh about 130 haha I'm just such a hard gainer I felt this would give me a little edge on the competition u know? So other than crossing over into something that will have long term effects, what is the way to go? Basically what is the most potent supplement that doesn't mess with ur test levels? I jus feel I have a big disadvantage because some people gain or lose weight like nothing, and I work my ass off and I've got a low bf%, but I got THIS big, and now having trouble getting any bigger. Just feel I've kinda peaked u know?


You wanna be the best, you gotta take out the best


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## Rdub9281 (Nov 23, 2013)

How does everyone feel about animal pak?Which one would b best for me since I'm a hard gainer? Pump? M-stak? What about their test? 


You wanna be the best, you gotta take out the best


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## Dr.G (Nov 23, 2013)

^^^^ first i don;t think you are a hard gainer, you are lucky you don't gain fat easily. you are still 21 and one year of training is just barely the beginning..so being impatient at that point is totally illogical. i understand your temptation, back in my time there was no internet and thus no temptation to use steroids. the easy way is always tempting  and the promises supplements advertise are always tempting and the internet is being used skillfully to advertise and  cast such temptations. you will not find any bad thing about a new product because whoever is advertising for it is gaining profit from that. 
one year of hard training is nothing, bodybuilding is a lifelong commitment, you should not mess  with your system at that young age you will surely regret it and i can assure you you can get better results without any substance at this point. you should not think quick results, you should enjoy your workout ,,,,,,results will come.
i am 52 right now and i stopped taking all kinds of supplements a year ago , i just take vitamins from time to time and follow a very healthy diet,,,,and let me tell u  that i feel much better now than ever, and at my age i gain muscle still as if i am 25. 
i have nothing to gain or lose myself  by giving you advice but all i can say that you should never put your hopes in substances, there are no shortcuts as simple as that. the secret is patience and enjoying your workouts + a healthy lifestyle.  
YOU ARE STILL FAR FROM PEAKING come back in 10 years . 
and anybody pushing you to go for any kind of steroids is not your friend and neither somebody you should look up to.
good luck


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## Kenny Croxdale (Nov 24, 2013)

Dr.G said:


> ^^^^ first i don;t think you are a hard gainer



*Stupid Statement*

You continue to prove that "thinking" isn't something you do well when it comes to processing information.  

Rdub9281 is obviously a hard gainer.  There's NO "thinking" (meaning guessing about it).  

*Supplements*

While most of the supplements advertised over promise and under delivery, some supplements actually are effective. 

However, you tend to throw them all under the bus and into one category.  

*"I can assure you you can get better results without any substance at this point."*

You are either naive or just an idiot.  I going with the latter. 

*Hypocritical *

You base taking supplements and then you state that you "take vitamins from time to time." 

Now there is an oxymoron. 

*With that said...*

I am not a proponent of an individual at a young age, 21, taking anabolics.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Nov 24, 2013)

Rdub9281 said:


> How does everyone feel about animal pak?
> 
> *Paying For More Than You Get*
> 
> ...


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## Rdub9281 (Nov 24, 2013)

Great info Kenny, a lot to think about there


You wanna be the best, you gotta take out the best


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