# IGF-1 Question



## GMO (Jan 5, 2011)

I have never used peptides before, but I have been hearing some pretty interesting things about IGF-1.  Is this something that is best utilized on cycle like GH, or can it be used during the off cycle period to promote lean mass gains?


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## TwisT (Jan 5, 2011)

It can be used both. I prefer it in PCT and off-cycle, really makes a difference with me in terms of PCT weight loss.

-T


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## SloppyJ (Jan 5, 2011)

Really? I got some thrown into an order. It's the IGF1 des though. 

Does that make it different? I looked up some stuff on the IGF-1 and some stuff I saw was kind of scary. I decided to leave it be for now. But I would use it PCT if it helps.


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## TwisT (Jan 5, 2011)

Is it DES(1-3)IGF- 1?

And what did you find scary about it???

-T


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## Life (Jan 5, 2011)

I think hes scared of the temporary intestinal growth


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## SloppyJ (Jan 5, 2011)

I'm not sure what exactly it says I all know is it's the IGF-1 des I think I remember a "R" being in there also somewhere. It was from stens. I haven't seen much about the "des" version. I dont even know what that means.

I watched a video about it and in mice, elevated IGF-1 levels were consistent with shorter life span. Obviously the intestine thing is scary even though I've never heard it called "Temporary" 

That's why I posted in here so I could figure out how/if I want to try it. If it's beneficial to PCT then I will look into it more.


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## TwisT (Jan 5, 2011)

Id like to see that video... because I have never heard anything like that through my research.

You might be referring to " IGF-1 lR3 "

And you guys are talking about GH gut, an enlargement of the intestines which is usually seen with long-term (years) GH use which is very unlikly with normal IM IGF-1 use unless you use radical amount every day, which has been shown to be counter-productive as the receptors saturate at a certain dose.... so GH gut is not something to worry too much about.

-T


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## Life (Jan 5, 2011)

TwisT said:


> Id like to see that video... because I have never heard anything like that through my research.
> 
> You might be referring to " IGF-1 lR3 "
> 
> ...



I'm not worried about it, was just saying I think that is one of his issues.


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## SloppyJ (Jan 5, 2011)

It looked like a medical confrence presentation. It's on youtube. I'll find it when I get home from work. We are blocked here.


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## TwisT (Jan 5, 2011)

SloppyJ said:


> It looked like a medical confrence presentation. It's on youtube. I'll find it when I get home from work. We are blocked here.




PM it to me when you get it

Thanks bud
-T


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## GearsMcGilf (Jan 5, 2011)

I've found it to be rather useless.  Just save your $ and get some real gears.  I have been very impressed with ghrp6 & cjc1295


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## SloppyJ (Jan 5, 2011)

YouTube - Dr. McDougall and Insulin-like Growth Factor 1


I pm'd you too twist. 

I figured this is interesting so everyone would like to see it. I'm not saying it's true. Some of this is bullshit for sure.


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## TwisT (Jan 5, 2011)

Pretty much his point is IGF makes you grow ( well that's why are taking it, isn't it? ) 

And his counter is time has shown taller and larger people live shorter then shorter people, while they also carry more disease.

Cool! I really don't think IGF will make me grow so radically that it will make me die any sooner. In fact, don't you think anabolic steroids would put you at more risk of this "grow-big-and-die-sooner" statement?

Think about it 

-T


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## etoussier (Jan 6, 2011)

*about "GH Gut"*



TwisT said:


> Id like to see that video... because I have never heard anything like that through my research.
> 
> You might be referring to " IGF-1 lR3 "
> 
> ...




I have used HGH every single day for nearly 13 years... and I have had feed back from more than 10,000 persons who write to me about their experience with HGH... and I have NEVER HEARD of "GH gut"... 

There is always a first time to hear about everything but since it took 13 years for me to hear about it, I will GUESS that THERE IS NO SUCH THING as "GH gut" but there MIGHT BE such a thing as A BODY BUILDER WHO HAS A BIG GUT, for some reason OTHER than GROWTH HORMONE... perhaps 2 grams of testosterone per week... 

But... if you don't know what else to blame, blame it on Growth Hormone.  

I have learned that if there is something a DOCTOR DOES NOT KNOW, he will SAY IT ANYWAYS... and then it will be repeated a few hundred times by OTHERS who will quote the first genius... 

"GH Gut" sounds to me like one of those brilliant things that doctors will say MIGHT HAPPEN if you take "Growth" Hormone... other things that MIGHT HAPPEN are "acromegaly"... cancer... diabetes... 

If it is BAD and you want to SCARE THEM from using growth hormone, just blame it on GROWTH HORMONE... 

But... SHOW ME a true case of "GH Gut"... just ONE case... or show me ONE CASE of DIABETES CAUSED BY GROWTH HORMONE (and not by the previous 40 years of eating spaghetti and bread and chocolate cakes...)  or one case of cancer, prove that it was caused by growth hormone... 

Acromegalia... that is not a side effect... that is caused ON PURPOSE by some body builders who WANT to have Acromegalia, so they can win a body building contest.   There is NOTHING WRONG with being HUGE, if that is what you want.


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## Glycomann (Jan 6, 2011)

etoussier said:


> I have used HGH every single day for nearly 13 years... and I have had feed back from more than 10,000 persons who write to me about their experience with HGH... and I have NEVER HEARD of "GH gut"...
> 
> There is always a first time to hear about everything but since it took 13 years for me to hear about it, I will GUESS that THERE IS NO SUCH THING as "GH gut" but there MIGHT BE such a thing as A BODY BUILDER WHO HAS A BIG GUT, for some reason OTHER than GROWTH HORMONE... perhaps 2 grams of testosterone per week...
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure you have not used 10 iu a day for 13 years.  The huge midriff came after introduction of growth hormone into bodybuilding the late 1980s and 1990s.  Before that it did not exist.  It accelerated once insulin was added to these protocols. It is well known that IGF-1 receptor density in intestine is high.  With addition of insulin, anabolic steroids and a high protein diet it is not unreasonable to predict intestinal growth.


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## SloppyJ (Jan 6, 2011)

TwisT said:


> Pretty much his point is IGF makes you grow ( well that's why are taking it, isn't it? )
> 
> And his counter is time has shown taller and larger people live shorter then shorter people, while they also carry more disease.
> 
> ...


 
I agree that's why I said some of it is bullshit. Still, I need to do way more research in order to figure out what I want to do with the IGF.


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## XYZ (Jan 6, 2011)

TwisT said:


> Id like to see that video... because I have never heard anything like that through my research.
> 
> You might be referring to " IGF-1 lR3 "
> 
> ...


 
This has been proven to be a myth.  The "GH gut" is really casued by excessive use of insulin.


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## GMO (Jan 6, 2011)

TwisT said:


> It can be used both. I prefer it in PCT and off-cycle, really makes a difference with me in terms of PCT weight loss.
> 
> -T



Alright.  Thanks for the info.  I will be considering this as part of my next cycle's PCT and maybe during the off time.


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## etoussier (Jan 7, 2011)

*"GH Gut": another side effect that DOESN'T HAPPEN*



Glycomann said:


> I'm pretty sure you have not used 10 iu a day for 13 years.  The huge midriff came after introduction of growth hormone into bodybuilding the late 1980s and 1990s.  Before that it did not exist.  It accelerated once insulin was added to these protocols. It is well known that IGF-1 receptor density in intestine is high.  With addition of insulin, anabolic steroids and a high protein diet it is not unreasonable to predict intestinal growth.



In order to say that GROWTH HORMONE causes, or caused, "GH Gut" you would have to show me a BODY BUILDER WHO USED HIGH DOSES OF HGH and got "GH Gut" and HE WAS NOT USING EXCESS TESTOSTERONE... 

There is no such animal.

You are right, that I have not used 10 iu per day... I have used 2 iu per day, and sometimes 3 iu, and sometimes 4 iu per day, but mostly 2 iu per day.... almost every day without fail for nearly 13 years.  

So... you are telling me that it was GROWTH HORMONE and not TESTOSTERONE or INSULIN that caused these huge midriffs?   

If they used growth hormone in the 1980's it might have been cadaver derived human growth hormone... I DON'T KNOW what "1 iu" of cadaver derived growth hormone would be equivalent to, in today's lab-made genetic engineered growth hormone but it was probably another measuring stick altogether... 

And if they used 10 iu per day in the late 1980's, they were way ahead of Daniel Rudman, who did the original experiment about 1991 (?) using HGH on "Old Men".  Before Daniel Rudman, HGH was thought to have NO EFFECT on adults.  

So do you think Arnold Schwartzennegger and others were aware of HGH in the late 1980's?   I don't think so... Maybe early 1990's and onwards...

It was almost impossible to get growth hormone in the United States in the early 1990's, by the account of Howard Turney, who established an anti-aging clinic in Playa del Carmen, Mexico in 1991.   He had to come to Mexico to get growth hormone because he couldn't get it at all in the U.S.... it could not even be PRESCRIBED to adults... it was ONLY for children, in those days.   

Black market?   There is no black market if there is no demand for a product.  But MAYBE Arnold and his buddies could get some pretty wild things...

Maybe RHEUSUS (or other) MONKEY GROWTH HORMONE?  I dunno...

But IN ANY CASE... In order to say that GROWTH HORMONE causes "GH Gut" you have to find a BODY BUILDER WHO GOT "GH GUT" BECAUSE HE USED EXCESS HGH and HE DID NOT USE EXCESS TESTOSTERONE... 

Then I MIGHT concede that I will BEGIN to consider that it MIGHT be true.   

Otherwise: I think you are fabricating and spreading misinformation about growth hormone... "GH Gut" is ANOTHER SIDE EFFECT of using HGH that DOESN'T HAPPEN.   

Or else, SHOW ME THE CASE...


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## Life (Jan 8, 2011)

Why would excess testosterone cause GH gut? I don't know if its from GH or insulin but I know it wasn't the test. Starting in the 60's bodybuilders started using steroids. That just increased over time, some doing massive amounts. It wasn't until GH/insulin was available that GH gut started to appear.


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## etoussier (Jan 8, 2011)

*"GH Gut"... What "GH Gut"?*



Life said:


> Why would excess testosterone cause GH gut? I don't know if its from GH or insulin but I know it wasn't the test. Starting in the 60's bodybuilders started using steroids. That just increased over time, some doing massive amounts. It wasn't until GH/insulin was available that GH gut started to appear.



There you go again... Repeat a lie enough times and it seems to  become the truth, but it is still a lie...  

There IS no "GH Gut" so stop using the term.   Get it?  THERE IS NO "GH Gut"...  

Got it???  There ain't none.  It is a myth.  

Perhaps "Testosterone Gut" or "Insulin Gut" but There Ain't NOTHING LIKE "GH Gut..."   It is not true, false, and mistaken.   (and I agree with you, there probably isn't anything that should be called "Testosterone gut...")

Or else, as I said before: SHOW ME THE CASE... but it has to be somebody who took an excessive dose of HGH and did NOT also take an excessive dose of something else... You KNOW there is no BODYBUILDER that fits that definition, so show it to us with whoever or wherever you want to.  

Just SHOW US THE CASE... 

And if you cannot, then please stop using the term "GH Gut", which spreads fear and misinformation about a very good hormone.


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