# best non-steroidal anabolic



## dillow93 (Feb 11, 2009)

whats the best non-steroidal anabolic of there 

i have heard of anabolic halo and different anabolic supplements but i wanna know which ones are best and if they work


----------



## Merkaba (Feb 11, 2009)

Good food and lots of it.


----------



## PreMier (Feb 11, 2009)

dillow93 said:


> whats the best non-steroidal anabolic of there
> 
> i have heard of anabolic halo and different anabolic supplements but i wanna know which ones are best and if they work



ofcourse you have, its muscletech.  take a multi vitamin, that stuff is shit


----------



## danzik17 (Feb 11, 2009)

Merkaba said:


> Good food and lots of it.



Damn, beat me to it.

If you want purely something that helps test production, then make sure you are getting enough fat and dietary cholesterol since both are critical in hormone production.


----------



## Merkaba (Feb 12, 2009)

PreMier said:


> ofcourse you have, its muscletech.  take a multi vitamin, that stuff is shit



Poor muscletech....It just gets slammed hard on this forum.


----------



## Built (Feb 12, 2009)

Muscletech makes okay stuff. It's just really, REALLY expensive for what you get.


----------



## Merkaba (Feb 12, 2009)

I've taken Nitro two or three times and got good results. That was way back in the day though. I bought some a few years ago, strawberry...I drank it and it made me sick so I took it back to GNC and told them there was a bug in it!


----------



## nni (Feb 12, 2009)

dillow93 said:


> whats the best non-steroidal anabolic of there
> 
> i have heard of anabolic halo and different anabolic supplements but i wanna know which ones are best and if they work



we brought the nha stack to market (non hormonal anabolic). at this point, you's be hard pressed to find a test booster better than activate xtreme. assuming you are 18 or over, its safe and effective. add to this a good preworkout creatine, and some carbs and protein post workout, and you are set.


----------



## Ben dur (Feb 12, 2009)

i have officially never taken any muscletech product...


they make good products (good, not great)
but their not the absolute best thing you can get


i believe the most anabolic non steroid you can consume would have to be either

insulin

though that would be an a dangerous injecable as well


salt
dextrose
creatine

or
a combo

directly post workout of course


----------



## zombul (Feb 12, 2009)

For something not ph or steroid related for strength I would suggest cratine.


----------



## egodog48 (Feb 12, 2009)

I would suggest xfactor or maxout.  Both are extremely effective, lean mass building, fat burning, strength agents.  This is no exaggeration, I absolutely love this stuff!


----------



## Ben dur (Feb 13, 2009)

egodog48 said:


> I would suggest xfactor or maxout.  Both are extremely effective, lean mass building, fat burning, strength agents.  This is no exaggeration, I absolutely love this stuff!




prohormon?
what kind of support would be needed??


cycle support and a decent pct(tomox on hand, + nat test booster) like any pro?


----------



## quark (Feb 13, 2009)

Ben dur said:


> prohormon?
> what kind of support would be needed??
> 
> 
> cycle support and a decent pct(tomox on hand, + nat test booster) like any pro?



Iforce Nutrition Max Out and Molecular Nutrition X-factor. I don't think a pct would be needed for these.


----------



## Ben dur (Feb 13, 2009)

Arachidonic Acid 
seems to be the key ingredient


did some reserach
appears to be a fat

at 50 bucks a bottle ill stick with the fishoil

personally


----------



## sexy_animal (Feb 13, 2009)

I experimented with a few non-ph supplements over last year and these are the ones worth buying IMHO.

This is my list, from essential to marginally helpful:

1. Purified/mercury free fish oil
2. L-arginine/L-Ornithine combo
3. Garlic pills (of the stinky variety, I forget what the brand is called)
4. Tribulus
5. Multivitamin


----------



## egodog48 (Feb 16, 2009)

Ben dur said:


> Arachidonic Acid
> seems to be the key ingredient
> 
> 
> ...



It is actually an omega 3, however, you need to look furthur as its much more effective than what you think.  I was accused of being on gear when I was on it, and now that Im taking maxout, once again everyone is asking what Im on.  Trust me, its very effective, and very worth the money.  Why do you think AA is finding its way into so many products.  Hemodraulix, I believe the halodrol liquigels, etc...

And no PCT is required for it.  It is highly effective and nonhormonal. 

I am not a rep for either of the companies and Im telling you, try it out and you will like it.  Taking fish oil is not even close to the benefits you will get from this.  Yo lose bodyfat, gain lean muscle, and get stronger.  Molecular nutrition has what, maybe 2-3 supps out and they have been around a while.  What they put out cannot be bunk.

Thats all I can say.  If you still dont believe me, I understand.


----------



## Built (Feb 17, 2009)

Ben dur said:


> Arachidonic Acid
> seems to be the key ingredient
> 
> 
> ...





egodog48 said:


> It is actually an omega 3, however, you need to look furthur as its much more effective than what you think.  I was accused of being on gear when I was on it, and now that Im taking maxout, once again everyone is asking what Im on.  Trust me, its very effective, and very worth the money.  Why do you think AA is finding its way into so many products.  Hemodraulix, I believe the halodrol liquigels, etc...
> 
> And no PCT is required for it.  It is highly effective and nonhormonal.
> 
> ...



Actually, the double-bond is on the sixth carbon - it's an omega 6 fatty acid.

It promotes inflammation in the body.


----------



## quark (Feb 17, 2009)

Built said:


> Actually, the double-bond is on the sixth carbon - it's an omega 6 fatty acid.
> 
> It promotes inflammation in the body.



Is that why they say this? _*To maximize benefits, avoid supplementing omega 3 fatty acids, or other anti-inflammatory products, while taking X-Factor.*_


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 17, 2009)

Built said:


> Muscletech makes okay stuff. It's just really, REALLY expensive for what you get.



I agree, some of their stuff is pretty good but the price is a turnoff.
For some reason their multi vitamin screws up my liver.


----------



## workingatit43 (Feb 17, 2009)

I think a lot of the natty test boosters can help with proper diet and training and are safe.

Stoked

Activate Xtreme

Mass FX


----------



## egodog48 (Feb 17, 2009)

Built said:


> Actually, the double-bond is on the sixth carbon - it's an omega 6 fatty acid.
> 
> It promotes inflammation in the body.



Good catch!  Shouldnt have spoken off the top of my head...


Yes, if you supplement with Omega 3's, it actually ends up competing in your body and will deteriorate from the results.

Sorry to take this thread so off base, just thought I would share my opinion on such a great supplement.


----------



## Built (Feb 17, 2009)

How much did you take, and for how long? Any other supps you took with it?


----------



## nni (Feb 17, 2009)

AA was made popular by molecular nutrition in the form of X-Factor. it is usually taken at 1g a day for 50 days. if you are prone to joint issues, it is not for you at all. it got very popular and got excellent reviews. a recent study showed it as basically ineffective. it will still work imo though.


----------



## egodog48 (Feb 17, 2009)

nni said:


> AA was made popular by molecular nutrition in the form of X-Factor. it is usually taken at 1g a day for 50 days. if you are prone to joint issues, it is not for you at all. it got very popular and got excellent reviews. a recent study showed it as basically ineffective. it will still work imo though.



A recent study?  and by who?  

I took 1G a day for 50 days.  It takes about three weeks to load up and then you will start to see the results.  Its in the last half of the cycle that you see extreme results.

My results from my very first run of it were the best.  I went from 390 bench to 420, and a 500 pound squat to a 600 squat.  I was also doing sets of 15 dips with 120 tied around my waist.  HOWEVER, I did develop very bad tendonitis in knee and elbow and was crippling painful at the cessation of the cycle.  I was accused of doing winstrol while on this cycle.

What I have done since then was I have incorporated taking fish oil in between doses of AA.  I feel that although I may be diminishing returns by doing so, that it more beneficial in the end.  I have incorporated this method the last time and for my current run, and am seeng very good results.  Although I am not maxing out like I once did with the weight, I am seeing the leaning results and am able to get more reps than normally possible. Its still very worth the price tag.

SO yes, if you have joint issues, I would definitely take precautions before starting a cycle of this stuff.

ALso, I wasnt taking anything out of the ordinary when I ran these products.  The only thing introduced new during the cycle was, in fact, just the Xfactor.

If Im not mistaken, I believe my avy was from my last xfactor cycle.  I had never had that kind of definition in my back.  I know Im not striated or anything, but at 240 pounds, I dont think I was doing too bad.


----------



## Built (Feb 18, 2009)

egodog48 said:


> A recent study?  and by who?


It was probably this one: Effects of arachidonic acid supplementation on training adaptations in resistance-trained males 

Can you spot any flaws in how the study was conducted?


----------



## CG (Feb 18, 2009)

Consider me subbed, I wanna see where this goes..


----------



## nni (Feb 18, 2009)

egodog48 said:


> A recent study?  and by who?
> 
> I took 1G a day for 50 days.  It takes about three weeks to load up and then you will start to see the results.  Its in the last half of the cycle that you see extreme results.
> 
> ...





Built said:


> It was probably this one: Effects of arachidonic acid supplementation on training adaptations in resistance-trained males
> 
> Can you spot any flaws in how the study was conducted?




thats the one, MN also conducted one, and the results were not so stellar. however, feedback (as seen above) is excellent. bill put all of his eggs into this AA basket and he was able to license it out to several companies. i personally can never take it, due to my hip problems, but would have liked to.

we cosponsored some logs with MN for x-factor and activate, and people had great results across the board (cut and bulk) so there must be something to it.


----------



## CG (Feb 18, 2009)

nni said:


> thats the one, MN also conducted one, and the results were not so stellar. however, feedback (as seen above) is excellent. bill put all of his eggs into this AA basket and he was able to license it out to several companies. i personally can never take it, due to my hip problems, but would have liked to.
> 
> we cosponsored some logs with MN for x-factor and activate, and people had great results across the board (cut and bulk) so there must be something to it.



Almost makes you wonder what we real world usewrs are doing so different from these trials to get such better results.. Better diets? Lifting harder? It makes you really wonder about some of these studies..


----------



## Built (Feb 18, 2009)

Well, I'll bite. I'm cutting right now. In your opinion, if it works at all, would it work better for a cut or a bulk? I'm leaning toward "bulk"... thoughts?


----------



## nni (Feb 18, 2009)

i think it is a truly versatile product and can go either way.


----------



## Built (Feb 18, 2009)

Hmmm... thing is, with the extra joint pain, I'm thinking recovery will at least be better while bulking.


----------



## egodog48 (Feb 18, 2009)

nni said:


> i think it is a truly versatile product and can go either way.



I am thinking so as well.  Like I said, it has been said to do both, and have noticed it d both burn fat and add lean muscle.  I think it all depends what you would stack it with. 

As far as studies done and anecdotal evidence, I more closely watch the real world effects on people.  Although studies have shown a product like cissus quadrangularis to not help with tendon issues (it has only been proven to help bone fractures), I am living proof that this stuff helps with tendonitis as its is the ONLY thing that worked when I had the said tendonitis in the elbow and knee.  I cant prove why or how, but it just works.

I'd have to check and see what one of the another user on another board said about using AA on a cut.  If I rememeber correctly, he was getting contest prepped, but Id have to do some sifting through threads because its been a bit.


----------



## Built (Feb 18, 2009)

I'd appreciate anything you can find, thanks!


----------



## nni (Feb 18, 2009)

egodog48 said:


> I am thinking so as well.  Like I said, it has been said to do both, and have noticed it d both burn fat and add lean muscle.  I think it all depends what you would stack it with.
> 
> As far as studies done and anecdotal evidence, I more closely watch the real world effects on people.  Although studies have shown a product like cissus quadrangularis to not help with tendon issues (it has only been proven to help bone fractures), I am living proof that this stuff helps with tendonitis as its is the ONLY thing that worked when I had the said tendonitis in the elbow and knee.  I cant prove why or how, but it just works.
> 
> I'd have to check and see what one of the another user on another board said about using AA on a cut.  If I rememeber correctly, he was getting contest prepped, but Id have to do some sifting through threads because its been a bit.



im proof of the opposite for cissus.


----------



## egodog48 (Feb 18, 2009)

What exactly would you like me to look up.  SO far what I have found is tpical weight gains with AA so Im not sure if you are trying to cut down to a certain weight class, it may not be ideal.  I can also see that if you are using something like winstrol, this would not be ideal on your joints on a cut. Im not sure how your joints are affected otherwise on a cut

ANything specific you would like me to check up on?


----------



## nni (Feb 18, 2009)

bb.com sponsored logs with x-factor....

Bodybuilding.com Forums - Search Results


----------



## Built (Feb 18, 2009)

Said "no matches".


----------



## egodog48 (Feb 18, 2009)

I didnt know we were allowed to post links to other forums.  Check out discountanabolics.com and see what they say about AA.  Alot of lnks come up, moreso for Xfactor than for maxout since it is so new


----------



## Arnold (Feb 19, 2009)

egodog48 said:


> I didnt know we were allowed to post links to other forums.  Check out discountanabolics.com and see what they say about AA.  Alot of lnks come up, moreso for Xfactor than for maxout since it is so new



it depends on the context, if there is something on another board worth referring members to read then that's fine.


----------



## nni (Feb 19, 2009)

Built said:


> Said "no matches".



worked last night, strange.

from reading dozens of logs, it can go for either bulking or cutting, really depends on what you want. i think it would be a powerful cutting tool.


----------



## Built (Feb 19, 2009)

Have you seen any women run it, nni?


----------



## nni (Feb 19, 2009)

Built said:


> Have you seen any women run it, nni?



women lift weight? 



no, i honestly haven't seen many, if any, women run it.


----------



## Built (Feb 19, 2009)

A few of us lift. Yanno, little tiny pink dumbbells. 






YouTube Video













Thanks nni. Much obliged.


----------



## Ben dur (Feb 19, 2009)

nice stan smiths


----------

