# Fasted Cardio?  Really?



## raysd21 (Sep 2, 2014)

I think fasted cardio is idiotic.  I am more of the mindset of increasing overall metabolism throughout the day and decreasing total calories.  Eat so I can exercise more type of deal.  This exercising in a fasted state seems like a gamble to me.  Not to mention just plain out stupid.  I ain't risking burning hard earned muscle.  In 5 minutes of research I found some studies that support my belief.  Anyone got any research to counter mine?




> _A*rticle written by Amy Payne*_
> *
> To eat or not to eat: isn&#146;t that always the question?  Well in the case of Fasted Cardio for fat loss, that is the question.  There has been much debate as to whether or not you will lose more fat while doing cardio fasted or performing cardio after consuming meal or 2 or 3.    *
> 
> ...


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## skinnyguy180 (Sep 2, 2014)

I guess my question is how does cardio fasted or not affect the CPT-I which is supposed to be the rate limiting factor in oxidation.. also the conclusion to the article seems the be poorly written..  I don't quite understand which point they are trying to make.  Are they saying that the group that ate prior to cardio throughout the day burned more after 24 hours or are they still trying to make the point that right after cardio you have not burned more fat.... seems like they were going for the latter but achieved the first idea... IMHO they would have to do a longer study to determine the effectiveness.. 24 hours is long enough to prove there point with out being proven wrong and the closer you get the the actual cardio would swing stuff the other way due to the extra calories taken in.


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## theCaptn' (Sep 2, 2014)

If you're geared, limited fasted cardio is not going to make you catabolic.


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## raysd21 (Sep 3, 2014)

theCaptn' said:


> If you're geared, limited fasted cardio is not going to make you catabolic.



This is the counter arguement obviously.  But seriously the average person trying desperately to lose weight is not pinning 500mgs of test.   Especially females.  I just want people to think about things after they read an article or get some advice from someone and start doing it.   People are always complaining about not putting on enough muscle.  I think it comes from the diet mindset.  Not eating enough and fasted cardio or to much cardio.

I am doing some fasted cardio right now with the peptides I'm doing.  It will be interesting to see the results.  I'm only doing it cause I hit a pretty firm wall for dropping bf%.


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## skinnyguy180 (Sep 3, 2014)

They might not be pinning gear but a lot of them are on metabolism boosters such as clen... and if you are on clen wouldn't that keep your metabolic rate up.  And considering that the whole basis for the article was that your metabolism will be slower through out the day, it seems debunked..  In that sense any way.


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## skinnyguy180 (Sep 3, 2014)

The more I review this article the more holes I keep seeing.  For instance how did they come up with 36 minutes(seems like an odd number)... If a person really wants to lose weight they have to do more than 36 mins?  Also diet.. Were the 2 groups on some sort of controlled diet? What constitutes a "small meal" 500cals 200cals ?Daily activity... what did the two groups do during the day?  how many days a week were the two groups doing cardio before the they did this test? Also the last part mentions intensity-  if you are using a heart rate monitor on a cardio "machine" making sure you are at the same intensity as you would be had you eaten is a non issue.  Its not like your out running on the road.  You set the machine to a certain level and keep your heart rate steady.


In order for a study to be comprehensive the two groups would have to be on a specific diet, the length of time measured would have to be at least a month to measure real total body fat loss, and they would probably want to do more than 36 mins of cardio at least 3-4 days a week....


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## skinnyguy180 (Sep 3, 2014)

BTW I do do fasted cardio when trying to drop weight but for the most part I feel that if your doing cardio, fasted or not, and have your diet under control your going to lose weight at a similar rate either way.  I just have no issue doing my workouts on an empty stomach.  If you cant do cardio on and empty stomach then eat... Doing your work out is the biggest factor in all this not whether or not its fasted.


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## Big Smoothy (Sep 3, 2014)

Fasted vs. non-fasted cardio has always been debated and will continue to be debated.  

We are excluding 21 minutes of HIIT in the morning on an empty stomach correct?

Eric Broser swears by fast cardio and there are those that debate him.

As one poster noted, it comes down to diet. Yeah, we want the best results if we can get them and discussing this topic is good.  But there is no sure answer, yet. Was the sample size and number of studies enough? 

I mix up cardio, just like lifting:

One week I do HIIT in the morning 2-3 per week on an empty stomach (even though HIIT may not be the topic here).

Another week I'll do moderate cardio on an empty stomach for 30 minutes. 

The next week I do moderate cardio for 40 minutes at 116 to 122 heart beats per minute an hour after eating a clean meal.

Other times/weeks I'll do moderate cardio for 30 minutes and hour after a meal. 

Other weeks I will do 15 minutes of about 116 bhp and up the last 15 minutes to to 130 and sometimes higher, an hour after a meal.


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## raysd21 (Sep 8, 2014)

*Another Opinion On Fasted Cardio*

I'm often asked whether mornings of fasted cardio are the best way to burn fat. My answer is yes ... and no. When it comes to the physiology and biochemistry of the human body, nothing is simple. Throw exercise on top of normal daily functions, and things become even more complicated. So what do the experts say?
Some research does actually show that when you do cardio fasted in the morning, you burn up to 20 percent more fat. A recent study from the UK published in the "British Journal of Nutrition" found that when subjects were fasted during morning cardio they burned 20 percent more fat than when they had a meal beforehand. Several earlier studies show similar results.

Fasted cardio in the morning is effective because as you sleep and fast overnight your body conserves its precious carb stores and leans toward mobilizing fat for fuel. The story doesn't end here, however. Your body also breaks down amino acids into glucose overnight, so fasted morning cardio mobilizes more fat _and_ potentially more amino acids for fuel, which isn't ideal if building muscle is your primary goal. This isn't a huge problem as long as you consume a fast-digesting protein like whey, along with some slow-digesting casein, after your cardio.

*The HIIT On Cardio*

Despite the evidence above, we can't unequivocally say that fasted cardio is best for burning fat. Many studies on fasted or fed cardio focus solely on how many calories are burned during exercise. This is problematic because the real benefits of exercise, particularly high-intensity cardio and lifting, come _after_ training. High-intensity training burns more calories and fat after a workout than low-intensity cardio. With high-intensity interval training (HIIT), you burn calories for the rest of the day, even when you're not doing anything.

Studies show that HIIT workouts&#151;which take far less than half the time of slow-and-steady cardio workouts&#151;lead to as much as _twice_ the total fat lost. Even though the slow-and-steady cardio programs burned more total calories and fat during the actual workout, the HIIT programs somehow led to greater total fat loss. This is because the HIIT workouts burned more calories and fat the rest of the day, which adds up to more calories and fat than you can burn during a single workout.

So, if you're like most people, your best bet is to not worry about doing cardio fasted first thing in the morning. If doing cardio first thing in the morning is best for your schedule, then go for it, but try to at least have a pre-workout protein shake. If your goal is building max muscle, then I highly recommend you have a protein shake and some carbs, such as fruit, before the workout. If you're trying to limit carb intake, then you might want to avoid the carbs until after the workout is over. But again, it all depends on your diet.

That being said, I personally do a bit of fasted cardio and recommend it for certain people at specific times. I found that fasted cardio can work well for men with body fat in the low single digits (5-6 percent) and females with body fat in the low teens (13-14 percent), especially if they have specific problem areas like the lower back or thighs.

Over the years, I found that once people drop the majority of their total body fat, fasted cardio seems to work well on resistant or stubborn areas. Although there's no direct data to reference, it might be that when a person only has a small amount of fat lingering in hard-to-attack areas, exercising in a fasted state could spark those resistant fat cells to release stored fat so it can be burned for fuel.


However, if you're a male with roughly 8 percent body fat or more, or a female with 16 percent or more, fasted cardio probably won't make a massive dent in your fat-loss efforts. Instead, go high intensity with some form of HIIT and watch the fat melt.
*References*




Gonzalez, J. T., et al. Breakfast and exercise contingently affect postprandial metabolism and energy balance in physically active males. Br J Nutr. 23:1-12, 2013.
Deighton, K., et al. Appetite, energy intake and resting metabolic responses to 60 min treadmill running performed in a fasted versus a postprandial state. Appetite. 2012 Jun;58(3):946-54.
Hansen, K., et al.. The effects of exercise on the storage and oxidation of dietary fat. Sports Med 35: 363-373, 2005.


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## JG160 (Sep 12, 2014)

This is just what I do.  No real science behind it it just works for me and I have seen it worked for others.  I only do fasted cardio when I am in contest prep and am on cycle.  I do low intensity steady state cardio.  I take Eca before and drink 10-20 g bcaa while I am on treadmill.  
For me the benefits are def quicker fat loss but it also increases my appetite throughout the day.  
Fasted hiit I can't see belong a good idea.  Again this is just me may or May not work for others.  Wanted to give my two cents


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## raysd21 (Sep 12, 2014)

Yeah I appreciate input.  I am doing fasted cardio for the first time now and trying to get a feel for it.  Obviously being on gear is almost a must for fasted cardio in my opinion.  I agree with you.  Low to medium intensity cardio seems to be the way to go fasted.  I am trying some semi fasted HIIT cardio.  Or maybe MIIT more like.  A watered down protein drink and about a 1/3 cup of lentils is what I am going with right now.  On top of that I am injecting peptides after cardio.  Then that delays my eating pattern about 45 minutes.  I might be over extending and under nourishing or really close to the line I think.  We will see.


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## raysd21 (Sep 22, 2014)

Well my knees took a big shit after doing fasted cardio.  I think I over did it with the fasted cardio for 3 weeks and chemicals.  Running eca, frag 176, and T3 together is too much I think.  Never had this problem before.  The ligaments on the outside and inside of my knees are really sore.  Gonna have to hit the bike or eliptical for a few weeks.  Getting old...


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## Big Smoothy (Sep 22, 2014)

^ Good on your recovery. You will.

I think it's the running and not the HIIT.

I am middle-aged and I don't run anymore.


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## raysd21 (Sep 23, 2014)

Yeah I was doing interval running.  3 minutes run 3 minutes walk for an hour.  Not really crazy.  Like level 5.6.  Pretty mild.  I think I just hit it too hard.  I jumped into it.  I am just doing some bike shit now.  Hard to get my heart rate up on the bike though.  Burns like hell in my legs before my heart rate goes up.  And the stair climber just kills me in like 8 minutes.  I really like walking on an incline but trying to stay off my legs.  Never had this problem before.  I will figure something out.  Doing double cardio with no cardio to do...I need like a fucking seat cushion for the damn bike.  Fucking hard ass seat...Bullshit!


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## Mad Mulhollen (Sep 23, 2014)

I do fasted speedrope 4 to 5 days a week even when I'm not competing,1 minute intervals with 1 minute abs in between,then depending on now I feel,1 intervals an 30 second rest,moderate pace


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## raysd21 (Sep 23, 2014)

Fasted speedrope...  Yer a beast.  Never thought of that.  When the knees get better jump rope might be an option.  I need to mix it up.  The girls at the gym always do different shit like this.  Not as mundane as just pushin weights.  I will have to keep my eye out.


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## Mad Mulhollen (Sep 23, 2014)

It's the best cardio man,requires good coordination,running is bad for the knees,but not in moderation,but if Ya speed rope you don't ever have too....I used to wrestle in high school,that was my favorite cardio


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## palufitness (Sep 26, 2014)

What about people who train the morning and can't stand eating before a workout??.


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## OTG85 (Oct 1, 2014)

Eat something lite like a apple or banana


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## raysd21 (Oct 1, 2014)

palufitness said:


> What about people who train the morning and can't stand eating before a workout??.



I think your body is telling you fuck food give me preworkout I am physically addicted. You my friend are in trouble.

Stop smoking meth in the morning too bro.  Not good.


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## MI1972 (Oct 1, 2014)

I have to eat something before my morning workout or I will pass the fuck out...  I do, however, keep it protein only...  eggs and meats.  Post workout is when the carbs come in...


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## REDDOG309 (Oct 1, 2014)

I'm with Palu, I get up at six have 2 cups of coffee and do cardio at noon 5 days a week. Any food in the morning makes me sick, the most food I can get down is 2 dunkins and a chock milk. Even tho that works with my high sugar diet it still makes me feel bloated and gives me a tummy ache......


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## SheriV (Oct 1, 2014)

not sure if serious


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## REDDOG309 (Oct 1, 2014)

stone serious......


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## OTG85 (Oct 1, 2014)

You just have to train yourself to eat in the a.m.. There nothing wrong with 25minutes of fasted cardio.


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## OTG85 (Oct 1, 2014)

raysd21 said:


> I think your body is telling you fuck food give me preworkout I am physically addicted. You my friend are in trouble.
> 
> Stop smoking meth in the morning too bro.  Not good.



Nothing like meth preworkout!Fuck preworkouts I just take 100mg caffeine and im good to go.Sometimes I take pure L-argine with caffeine much cheaper and more effective in my eyes.


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## palufitness (Oct 2, 2014)

But smoking meth is my pre workout???What should I take before training then


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## Big Smoothy (Jan 22, 2015)

Interesting topic with studies and experiences, yet we don't agree.  That's OK.

On off days (no lifting) I often (but not always) do AM fasted HIIT or moderate cardio. The moderate cardio is

AM fasted, right after waking up
HBP minute will range from 122-128 on some days for 21 or 25 minutes. 
HBP minute on some days is 140-148, for 21 to 25 minutes

I eat 30 minutes later.

What do people think of this?


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## Conceal30 (Jan 22, 2015)

raysd21 said:


> I think your body is telling you fuck food give me preworkout I am physically addicted. You my friend are in trouble.
> 
> Stop smoking meth in the morning too bro.  Not good.



Meth= the breakfast of champions


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## SFW (Jan 22, 2015)

Does LHJO on clen inside of a sauna count as cardio? Ill use extra letro to make climax more difficult. opinions?  Fasted of course.


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## raysd21 (Jan 23, 2015)

SFW said:


> Does LHJO on clen inside of a sauna count as cardio? Ill use extra letro to make climax more difficult. opinions?  Fasted of course.



Wow I forgot I created this thread.  If your heart rate gets above 142 during the LHJO and you are at least 30 yrs old I would call it cardio.  Fasted of course....


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## Big Smoothy (Jan 24, 2015)

raysd21 said:


> Wow I forgot I created this thread.  If your heart rate gets above 142 during the *LHJO* and you are at least 30 yrs old I would call it cardio.  Fasted of course....



What is LHJO?


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## Big Smoothy (Jan 29, 2015)

Another question on eating after HIIT on an AM fasted stomach.

(Please be gentle.)

After 21 minutes of high HIIT on a morning (after waking up fast) can I wait 60 minutes before eating, without losing muscle?


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## raysd21 (Jan 30, 2015)

Since you are waiting an hour why don't you run some peptides.  Ghrp2, cjc, ipamorelin?  Since you are waiting 60 minutes to eat.  That would be absolutely perfect for GH increasing peptides casuse you have to wait anyway for the gh pulse to reach a peek.  

I would not do fasted cardio then wait 60 minutes without taking something to spike your insulin a little bit to block catabolism.  A BCAA drink at least.

LHJO = Left Hand Jerk Off


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## Big Smoothy (Jan 30, 2015)

Ray,

Thanks for both answers to both questions.

I'll stick with 30 minutes before eating after AM fasted HIIT. 


Cheers.


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## SuperLift (Feb 17, 2015)

So many factors play into this.  I did HIIT cardio for 20 mins and lost significant fat and some muscle :/   However, I was in the best shape of my life.


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## papersteroidguy (Mar 16, 2015)

I discovered which fasted cardio exercise can work nicely with regard to adult men together with unwanted fat inside the low one numbers as well as females together with unwanted fat inside the low kids, in particular when they've already unique problem areas such as the *spine* or even thighs.


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## papersteroidguy (Mar 16, 2015)

I discovered which fasted cardio exercise can work nicely with regard to adult men together with unwanted fat inside the low one numbers as well as females together with unwanted fat inside the low kids, in particular when they've already unique problem areas such as the *spine* or even thighs.


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## GearHead40 (Mar 17, 2015)

papersteroidguy said:


> I discovered which fasted cardio exercise can work nicely with regard to adult men together with unwanted fat inside the low one numbers as well as females together with unwanted fat inside the low kids, in particular when they've already unique problem areas such as the *spine* or even thighs.



Is this english?


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## antelope07 (Mar 18, 2015)

I have been experimenting with ketogenic dieting, I have gone to the gym in the AM after eating only a few servings of coconut oil, 4 (or5) servings X 120 calories, it may sound crazy and maybe technically it is not fasting, but it is hell, but effective.  
I have gotten into stuff these guys write https://greenfieldfitnesssystems.com/ and its a whole new way of looking at things. When it comes to fat loss I have found that people who used to carb cycle weren't going far enough it would seem, I have been ketogenic for a few months, its not a situation about gaining muscle er se, though there is a book on low carb performance, but the ketogenic state is supposed to be muscle sparing, and the energy, the reduced recovery, the mental clarity, its pretty amazing.  So I thought sharing this might be relevant to the original question.
This week I was running some T3 and clen and couldn't understand why blood sugar was so high, I didn't know that T3 can actually raise blood sugar, so I had to cut it out, but with a little test. and this diet approach, I have been learning a lot.  I am saving the T3 and clen for a later time for now and want to incorporate some peptide(s).
So, I would go no carb morning cardio at least, and fasting seems to work for people too, gotta find by trial and error, my $0.02


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