# Started the M1T early...



## Dale Mabry (Nov 25, 2003)

So, as I stared at that bottle of M1T and the protein drinks, I couldn't come up with a single good reason not to start my cycle yesterday, so I did.  I took 10 mg at 4pm and 10 mg at 8pm to get caught up.  I did legs and shoulders in between those times and got the best placebo effect ever.  Every weight went up.  Anyway, I couldn't get to sleep last night, but I blame that primarily on me staying up til 4am the night before.  So, today I took 10mg at 7 am and worked out at 1pm.  Had a great workout, did back and tris.  Got a huge pump, but so far, all of the things I have experienced can all be chalked up to placebo effect.  Gained 3 lbs, but that can be chalked up to an increase in cals.  I will say that last night, after my workout, I was very lethargic and almost fell asleep, but I don't know if that was carb crash from the surge or from the M1t.  Right now I am feeling pretty good and am hoping to get back on a better schedule.  Training-wise, my plan is to have a 3 day split, but workout 4 days a week so that I hit 1 group of bodyparts twice a week.  Originally, I was going to do a Westside style split, but switched because I felt I would gain more size with a bodybuilding routine.  Supplement-wise, my plan is to wake up at 7am, take a piss and my M1T and then go back to bed for a couple hours.  Anyway, here is what everything will look like.

Everyday
2x10mg M1T, 1 mg Finasteride 
200mg Milk Thistle before every meal
1g MSM 3 times a day
5g creatine
Micellean MRP Right before bed

Training Days
5g creatine preworkout
5g creatine postworkout
Biotest Surge Postworkout...


And most importantly, zero alcohol for 3 weeks.

Split
Week 1
Mon-Legs/Shoulders
Tue-Back/Tris
Wednesday off
Thurs-Chest/Bis
Fri-Legs/Shoulders

Week 2
Mon-Back/Tris
Tue-Chest/Bis
Wednesday off
Thurs-Legs/Shoulders
Fri-Back/Tris

Week 3
Mon-Chest/Bis
Tue-Legs/SHoulders
Wednesday off
Thurs-Back/Tris
Fri-Chest/Bis

Edit: Forgot to add, I am severely dehydrated.  I have already drank 3/4 of a gallon of water today and my lips and skin are really dry which wasn't the case about 48 hours ago.


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 26, 2003)

Soooooo... Have attained some significant sides from the product as well as good effects.

I took my 2nd M1T dose last night at around 6pm.  About 1.5 hours later, I crashed hard, real hard.  I pretty much passed out on the couch for 10 mins on the couch while watching TV.  I took my surge at 1pm so I do not believe it had anything to do with it.  

After my little cat nap, I was wide awake until 2:30am.  I went to bed at 2:30 and didn't fall asleep til 4am.  I tossed and turned all night.

Woke up this morning, felt down south, and noticed my nuts had gotten smaller, alot smaller.  

I am sweating alot more, but one weird thing I noticed was that when I go to bed, I can actually feel my body heat resonating off the covers, never felt that before.

Went to the mirror this morning to put in my contacts and when i got them in, I noticed my shoulders and chest were very hard looking, alot more so than usual.  When I got into work today, the ole boss asked if I was hitting the weights especially hard or something because I look alot bigger.  I also feel alot wider, but that is prolly my imagination.

My back is really F'in sore right now.

I have no real appetite suppression, but i would be amazed if I ever get that.  You are talking to a kid who used to eat 2 PB&J sandwiches, a small bag of chips, and 2 swiss rolls for lunch in 2nd Grade.


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## HoldDaMayo (Nov 26, 2003)

I'm surprised you already see results in just 1-2 days...


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 26, 2003)

On the 3rd day and, yes I was very surprised, but I think pretty much everything can be chalked up to placebo with the exception of my raisin sack.  I was going to get out my calipers and check their diameter, but I don't have a baseline anyway so I see no point in putting myself thru that pain.


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## ZECH (Nov 26, 2003)

I can't see how that would have any affect yet. Normally it would take weeks.


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 26, 2003)

I wonder if they change size during the day.  I am only guessing that they feel small since I don't walk around with my balls in my hand all day.  

It also could have been cuz I was warm, I am heatin up like a bastard these days.


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## ZECH (Nov 26, 2003)

Me thinks you are paranoid!


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## JerseyDevil (Nov 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> ... they feel small since I don't walk around with my balls in my hand all day.


 

Hey it's ok to be a little paranoid.  You might be getting a placebo effect Dale, but if the reports going around about M1-t are true you may very well be seeing results already.  

I'm in the first week of a S1+ cycle that I'm planning on doing for 4 weeks.  Yours truly ordered two bottles of the Legal Gear stuff, I know more expensive but still not a bad deal - 80 caps for $50.  So it will be at least 7-8 weeks before I start using it....


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 28, 2003)

Well, all I can say is holy shit.  So for the past 4 weeks I have been plateaued on flat bench at 275 for 3-4 reps.  So, today I benched and here are the results compared to before:

Before M1T
205 9-10 reps
235 7 reps
255 5 reps
275 3-4 reps


Today after 5 days on M1T
205 10 reps
245 8 reps
275 6 reps
295 3 reps

This is highly encouraging considering strength gains are not usually seen until weeks 2-3.  I look significantly larger and a few sides have crept in.  I get what I consider a highly mild headache at the base of my skull from time to time, but it is very mild and usually goes away when I drink a quart of water.  I would say that I am not lethargic, but there are periods of the day where I have zero energy which are followed shortly thereafter with periods of endless energy.  I am also a little constipated and am pissing quite often.  Well, I have to shower and I can hardly hold my hands up anymore so I am out.


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## Var (Nov 28, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> I wonder if they change size during the day.  I am only guessing that they feel small since I don't walk around with my balls in my hand all day.
> 
> It also could have been cuz I was warm, I am heatin up like a bastard these days.



When I did One+, my nuts shrunk up faster than they should have.  Maybe some people just have a higher sensitivity in that area???  I don't know.  It was very noticible to me after about 7 days.  And yes...I actually do walk around "with my balls in my hand all day".


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## ZECH (Nov 29, 2003)

Dave, why don't you consider running some transdermal 4/ad with this to help with lathargy. It will help bulk too.


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 29, 2003)

I'm not really having issues with lethargy, maybe for 20 mins after I take it, but not for a significant amount of time.  Also, I hate putting transdermals on for some reason, it is such a pain in the ass and they generally stink.


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## HoldDaMayo (Nov 29, 2003)

I'm with you Dale, I will never ever use transdermals again, what a paan in the ass...(it gets in your eyes, your nose, and is just a pain to deal with... even hours after you put it on, if you touch that body part and then touch your eyes or nose, you feel burning... I would rather just deal with pills... even if they are a bit less effective...


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 29, 2003)

Don't even get me into putting conatcts in, that just plain sucks.  If your arm itches, yo itch and and then you have to frickin wash your hands, but that doesn't even help and you feel like your eyeballs are gonna burn out of your head.


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## ZECH (Nov 29, 2003)

Yeah I bet contacts are a bitch. But I love the smell of transdermals and I love to rub it on. I'm weird!


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## Sir Foxx (Nov 29, 2003)

I'm with you dg.  Earlier this year when I did a cycle of BDC's TD's, it was like a ritual  in the morning and again at night.  Then one day I wake up, cycle's done, and I've got all of this time on my hands.  

It felt wrong not to rub 
My homage to Signs


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## ZECH (Nov 29, 2003)

Hey welcome to IM Sir Foxx! Glad to see you here bro. Be sure to hang out when you can. We need some more people with experience like yourself!!


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## Sir Foxx (Nov 29, 2003)

Thanks dg,  this looks like another cool board, glad to be here.


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 29, 2003)

Well, here is leg/shoulder day, some sides crept in.  First off, I basically went ahead and decided I would see how many sets it would take for me to hit the same volume at 295 as when I did my Westside-style workout.  Well, with Westside pre-M1T I did 295 for 8 sets of 3 which would give me 24 reps to shoot for, which I got today in 4 sets of 6.  This stuff is the real deal.  I did shoulders today too, but knocked down the volume since I did heavy chest yesterday.  I got the same weights I got on Monday on shoulder press, which surprised me since I did this the day after chest.

Well, on my way to the gym, my right calf started to cramp slightly and it is still slightly cramped.  I drank a ton and in a little while I will be hammering the potassium.  My joints really hurt today after shoulders, but it is bearable.  Another thing of note is that I sometimes find myself needing to breathe in extra deep, just an observation, I don't know the reasoning behind it, maybe my muscles are requiring more oxygen to repair themselves.  One side that is kinda positive...I had to grab the squat bar about 4 inches wider than usual on each side because my chest was so tight from yesterday.  I believe we are dealing with the real stuff boys, regardless of what T-mag will have you believe.


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 29, 2003)

Oops, one more thing of note, I have broken the 220 lbs barrier for the first time without being a fat bastard.  I am at 225 lbs up from 214 lbs on Monday.  This has made me decide to alter my original cycle in terms of diet.  I will finish this week off at a surplus, I will do next week at maintenance, and then the 3rd week at 300-500 below maintenance.  I do not want to go to VT weighing more than 220 since I will be doing a bit of wrestling while I am there.


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 1, 2003)

Well, I am thinking I am more the exception than the rule as I stepped on the scales and now weigh 229 lbs, up from 214.5 last Monday.  Strength was great and pump was huge.  Did back and tris today, doing chest and bis tomorrow.  I am thinking I am gonna run this til I hit at most 235 lbs and then give it a rest.  I will not exceed 3 weeks.  It seems as though I get stronger as the workout goes on, really weird.  I would say I am a bit more aggressive, but no more than I can control.


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## Sir Foxx (Dec 1, 2003)

Excellent gains. Keep it up.  Are you finding the extra potassium is working for your cramping?  How are the joints?


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 1, 2003)

I have had a tiny cramp in my right calf for the past couple days, but I think it is more of a knot.  I have not gotten any other cramping whatsoever and I am pretty sure it is due to the potassium.  Funny thing is, I am just using NoSalt as my pottassium, I just put it on food whenever I eat something.  I get the sodium free kind, not the one that is potassium and sodium.  As for my joints, they are actually a little better than they were before I started, but I think this is more of a result of the MSM kicking in.  They are very sore immediately following a workout, but not in a painful way, kinda like a burning sensation really.


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 2, 2003)

Well, weight dropped to 225 after lifting on an empty stomach, I would imagine that my weight is around 227 since I was extremely full yesterday when I weighed in.  I benched today and weights stayed the same, regardless of the fact that I did tris yesterday.  My Bis were stronger than last week by about 10lbs a side on DB curls.


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 3, 2003)

Well, Got the baseline measurements from my journal and made measurements today.  Here are the goods.

Baseline measurements

Weight 214 lbs

Circumferences
Shoulders 49.5"
Biceps 14.75" both
Chest 43"
Forearms 12.5" both
Abdomen 34"
Waist 33.5"
Thigh both 24"
Calves both 16"


Dec. 3, 2003-Day 10 M1T

Shoulders 52.5"
Biceps 15.25" unflexed, 17 1/8" flexed
Chest 45"
Forearms 12.75" unflexed, 14" flexed 
Abdomen 33.75"
Waist 33.75"
Thigh both 24.5" unflexed
Calves both 16.25" unflexed

So, what I see in the mirror seems to be true in the measurements, my shoulders seem to be getting the most out of all of this which I like cause I have always wanted to be wider.

Edit: By the way, these baseline measurements were taken about 2-3 weeks prior to starting the M1T.


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## Twin Peak (Dec 4, 2003)

Interesting.


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 4, 2003)

Here are some more notes, just got back from the gym...

Squat went up substantially-4x4 went up to 325 from 295
Maxed the leg curl machine stack out for 12 reps
Shoulder press went up-4x4 went from 165 to 200
My shoulders hurt alot

Non-gym notes- 

Weight went to 231 today, but I pigged out yesterday so I would not put stock in this.  I imagine I am at around 227 or so.

I tend to burp alot more on this stuff then usual.  Farting is still the same.

I am shitting the same number of times per day, but I am shitting so much more at each sitting.  I would say this is a result of me eating slightly more this week than in previous ones.

My gains have not slowed yet so I will keep going for another week.


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## Mudge (Dec 4, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> I tend to burp alot more on this stuff then usual. Farting is still the same.



Excellent review as always


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## Brando457 (Dec 5, 2003)

any sides from it yet? and what are you doing post cycle ?


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 5, 2003)

Doing 6 oxo postcycle, no real sides, although I think the lethargy may be starting to come in.


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## ZECH (Dec 5, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> Here are some more notes, just got back from the gym...
> 
> Squat went up substantially-4x4 went up to 325 from 295
> ...


Good Info, but a little too much!!


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 5, 2003)

You think that was too much, well here is more...

I hit a personal best today.  I was doing back and after my 8th set, there was a rumblin.  So I went into the shitter and when I finished, I looked down and there were 2 one footers.  I have done one 1 footer, but never 2 at one sitting.


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## Triple Threat (Dec 5, 2003)

A PR for Dale!


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## Brando457 (Dec 5, 2003)

Dale which product r u using? and what long are you cycling it for + dosage.


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## Power Rabbit (Dec 5, 2003)

Good gains...Might have to give it a shot myself...but why oh why does vpx stuff have to be so damned expensive.


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## Brando457 (Dec 5, 2003)

I dont see it on vpx's website :/


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## JerseyDevil (Dec 5, 2003)

Dale is using the M1-t from Kilosports.


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## JerseyDevil (Dec 5, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> I am shitting the same number of times per day, but I am shitting so much more at each sitting.





> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> So I went into the shitter and when I finished, I looked down and there were 2 one footers.  I have done one 1 footer, but never 2 at one sitting.


Dale, are you saying M1-t makes you full of shit?


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 5, 2003)

No, that comes from my fathers side of the family.  M1T seems to REMOVE the shit from me.  JP, things are going very well with this.  I have had 3 people I haven't seen in 2 weeks ask me if I was on roids in the past 2 days, and these are guys that do the juice.  Postcycle I will be hitting up 6-oxo, which should be here tomorrow.  I will use 3 pills a day for 3 weeks straight.  I was going to use Nolva, but I cannot get it in time to start it immediately so I figured 6-oxo may be good to try, not to mention cheaper.


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## Brando457 (Dec 5, 2003)

hmm what dosage are you taking from kilosports


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 5, 2003)

10mg 2 times a day


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## Brando457 (Dec 6, 2003)

looks like I cant take it:/ I m only 16 bah damn genetics and poop


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 8, 2003)

More news...

Weight still at 231 lbs

New 4rm Bench PR- 315 lbs, which I supersetted with a set of 10 at 225lbs afterwards.


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 10, 2003)

Well, yesterday did legs and shoulders.

I got 315 for 4 sets of 6, ass to the floor, form was100% better than before with less weight.
Shoulder press w/ dumbbells got 3 sets of 8 at 65 per side, this would be higher if I wouldn't have done chest the day before.
Shoulders burned like a bastard afterward
Calves cramped up
Get occasional neck cramps which are really shitty
Lethargy is finally kicking in


That's it, I should have some more info tomorrow when I do back and tris.


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 12, 2003)

today was my last workout day on M1T and thank god.  I pretty much just collapsed after my last set, my body is pretty must toast right now.  I am going to just relax this weekend and finish M1T on Sunday.  My postcycle will consist of 600mg of 6 oxo for 20 days.  I will be axeing my volume in half and only going to the gym 3 days a week starting Monday for at least a week, prolly 2.  Lethargy has really hit me the last couple days hard and cramping has also increased, but these things were easily overcome.  I did back and tris yesterday and everything went up.  My 4 rep max for BB rows went from 225 to 265.  Today I did chest and bis and everything remained the same as Monday, which I guess is good since my tris were so sore.  I am going to go take a nap now.


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 17, 2003)

WWell, here is my exit interview for M1T.  I jumped on the scale today after not being in the gym and pretty much not eating for 4 day.  It said 233 to my astonishment.  I was sure it would have been down to around 225.  Well, I did an abbreviated workout, half volume for chest and bis.  My big set I got 275 for 8 on bench and did the 55s for a set of 8 on db curls.  This am my arms taped out at 17.5" which is the biggest they have ever been.  It appears that this stuff IS the pimp juice everyone makes it out to be.  Just another side note, my hair is shedding a bit more now and my nuts definitely shrank to half size, maybe less.  These are temporary so I am not too concerned at this point, plus I am taking 6 oxo for the nuts.


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## SJ69 (Dec 17, 2003)

Do you have faith in the 6OXO?
Just wondering  bc if this is a "real" steroid then shouldn't we be taking a "real" post cycle like Nolvadex or clomid?
I'm in the same boat, I have 6OXO for my post cycle also, but now I'm having second thoughts if I made the right decision for post???


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## flexster (Dec 17, 2003)

Dale, what did your body weight start at?


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 17, 2003)

I started at 214 lbs.

I have quite a bit of faith in 6 oxo since it comes from a reputable company, has a sound theory, and has clinical research to back it up.


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## jmr1979 (Dec 17, 2003)

when i do my m1t cycle i am going to use nolva its cheaper and better from everyone i have talked to and asked.


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## jmr1979 (Dec 17, 2003)

hey dale those are good gains bro one question how much protein were you getting and how many more calories were you taking in from your normal diet?  also do you feel like you got more cut on this cycle?


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 17, 2003)

I feel as though I ate like a monster and gained little to no fat.  I got just around 250g of protein a day and didn't really keep track of cals, but I would say around 4000 a day.  The appetite suppression is still a factor even now 4 days since my last dose.  I would say this would be good stuff to start a cutting cycle with the strength increases and major appetite suppression.


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## Mudge (Dec 17, 2003)

Same thing with anadrol, alot of people have problems eating on it.


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## SJ69 (Dec 17, 2003)

It's funny how different people are affected different, my apetite is HUGE on M-1-T.


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 17, 2003)

I wouldn't say i had probs eating while on it.  I would say it was more of an "I need to make sure and remember to eat every 3 hours cuz my stomach is never hungry." type of thing


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## SJ69 (Dec 21, 2003)

So Dale, how's the post cycle going?
Do you feel you're recovered yet?
Retaining most of your gains?


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## BUSTINOUT (Dec 21, 2003)

In other words, have you held your nuts lately? lol


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## prolangtum (Dec 21, 2003)

I never had an appetite problem on anadrol or M 1T, but then again, this coming from a guy who acquired a taste for clenbutrx


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## JerseyDevil (Dec 22, 2003)

I am the same way.  Never really feel that hungry, but once I start eating I don't have any problems putting it away.


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## samat631 (Dec 22, 2003)

do u need to do any post cycle therapy for m1-t??? 
or need estrogen blockers? does m1-teven aromitize? 

and how much should i take a day ( i weigh 220)
and how long should my cycle last? 
thnx alot -sam


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## HoldDaMayo (Dec 22, 2003)

YES SIR!  

heard many people recommend nolva... but depending on the length and dose of your cycle 6-oxo may suffice... 

Careful with this stuff... if you don't have PCT plans for a M1-T cycle, you should do some more research...


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## prolangtum (Dec 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by samat631 *_
> do u need to do any post cycle therapy for m1-t???
> -sam


Yes!!
Any PH or AAS (including anavar and primo) will affect your HPTA. If not, then it is not working at all.


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## Mudge (Dec 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by samat631 *_
> does m1-teven aromitize?



Does not, but you bet your nuts you need PCT. If you stick to creatine/glutamine then you can forget about a post cycle.


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## samat631 (Dec 22, 2003)

so ill be fine if i stick to creatine and glutamine? just makin sure... 
is m1-t the best shit on the market now as far as the anabolic rate it gives? 

i hear insulin has a great anabolic rate?? :/


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## prolangtum (Dec 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by samat631 *_
> so ill be fine if i stick to creatine and glutamine? just makin sure...
> is m1-t the best shit on the market now as far as the anabolic rate it gives?
> 
> i hear insulin has a great anabolic rate?? :/



 
Where to start......


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## samat631 (Dec 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by prolangtum *_
> 
> Where to start......






lol. i know i know, i am completely ignorant with this stuff. 
 im a diabetic and i take insulin, and i realized that if i took it about half an hour preworkout it would really gimme a boost...
 cant take too much tho...

then after realizing this i read an article about how doctors say that insulin is anabolic. and that professional bodybuilders use this stuff alot bc it doesnt show up in drug tests cus insulin leaves the body so quickly...


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## Mudge (Dec 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by samat631 *_
> so ill be fine if i stick to creatine and glutamine? just makin sure...
> is m1-t the best shit on the market now as far as the anabolic rate it gives?
> 
> i hear insulin has a great anabolic rate?? :/



Anabolic rate? Explain what in the world that means. I think you are confusing this with METABOLIC RATE.

With creatine and glutamine and NO ANABOLIC SUPPLEMENTS you can run them as long as you like.

Insulin, stick to whatever your doctor tells you. Insulin is the human bodies nutrient shuttle, it can add muscle and it can add fat, it is non-specific when it moves nutrients. This is why it is used, it has nothing to do with drug tests. Drug testing is pretty much bogus in bodybuilding. Insulin however is deadly when used improperly and has claimed more lives probably than DNP or Usnic Acid combined.

Feel free to ask any well thought out questions you might have.


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## samat631 (Dec 22, 2003)

("does m1-t convert into estrogen?")



> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> Does not, but you bet your nuts you need PCT. If you stick to creatine/glutamine then you can forget about a post cycle.




say i do a  4 week cycle of m1-t (is that too long?), what would i need to use for post cycle therapy? and what happens after you stop using m1-t that makes u need post cycle therapy? is it bc when u stop your testosterone levels drop dramatically? it seems a little complicated...

lol and yea...i heard the phraze "anabolic rate" in a news article so idk if they know what their talkin about ne more than i do .lol
i am actually a diabetic myself and am pretty good with my insulin, and it does give me very powerful jolts of energy...but it usually only lasts about half an hour. although thats humalog. humalin lasts alot longer but u need to continually feed yourself thoughout the duration orelse lowbloodsugars. or worse...

thnx for ur patience and help


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## Mudge (Dec 22, 2003)

What happens is, almost any anabolic item WILL turn off natural testosterone production. This is why people are taking short cycles, the longer you are on the more shutdown that will occur - and the harder to recover. Now I have never seen any studies comparing 6OXO to Nolvadex, so I can't say if people are doing 2 on 2 off because 6OXO sucks in comparison or what.

Seriously though, even Nolvadex can be weak without the help of my good friend HCG (injectable), when hard shutdown occurs and your nuts shrink, HCG gets them back fast allowing for a faster recovery with the Nolvadex tabs.

[IMG2]http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=408064[/IMG2]


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## samat631 (Dec 22, 2003)

so im gonna need hgc? where can i find that? what does it do exactly?


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## Mudge (Dec 22, 2003)

Not saying anyone needs it, but if you are going to stay on for twice as long as anyone else, you are going to lengthen your recovery efforts.

Some people have been hit hard by even pro-hormone cycles, to the point of nut shrinkage. This to me is strange because I have to be on testosterone for months before I first saw this occur. HCG is used to stimulate LH, which tells the leydig cells to fill up the old yam bag. Your "yam bag" as it were is your testosterone factory, not just a sperm house (steroli cell responsiblity), so if your factory is at half capacity it will take a good while to get your factory back to full production - make sense now?

The less shutdown you endure the faster and more complete your recovery will be. The longer you are on, the more leydig and steroli cells you kill off.


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## Power Rabbit (Dec 22, 2003)

samat ...I reccomend baby steps...

-M1T as far as I can tell gets good gains, BUT your not clear on some things.... research it, research cycles wth it, research how people are reacting to it(gains and side effects)

-Message boards are great in the fact that you can get info from experienced guys, but your losing alot of the little details if you dont read ARTICLES, FAQS, and WRITEUPS(Ive spent hella hours researching and still do every day)

-for example- Mudge reccomended HCG in some situations. (For the record its good as a intermediary between end of cycle and PCT.) But if you read up a few articles you would find out that its a controlled substance and it needs to be used in a fairly complex window between the end of a cycle and the start of hard core PCT.

Im not steering you away from M1T...Im steering you toward looking up a few articles so you can get the fine details with the meat and potatoes your getting here.


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## Mudge (Dec 22, 2003)

Yep, if you are sticking to completely legal items then dont push your luck by going beyond what others are doing. Basically it comes down to that, learn how others run it, and I'd follow the same to avoid issues. If you are shut down and dont end up recovering, besides small nuts, gains are going to suck the next cycle and you only end up becoming frustrated.


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## jmr1979 (Dec 23, 2003)

samat these guys are being easy on you definitly need to research alot more you sound pretty clueless.  how old are you ?  also how long have you been lifting?  are you planning on liver support ?  are you going to get anything for blood pressure?


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## Mudge (Dec 23, 2003)

While legal, it is a _legal steroid_ - so you do have to know what you are doing for the best results and the least side effects.


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## samat631 (Dec 23, 2003)

im 20 and been workin out for about 2 1/2 yrs. 
liver support? how about distilled water and no beer? lol
yeh ive been looking into prosteroids for about a month and dont worry im not gonna jump right into this. wanna learn as much as possible. plus this shit sounds expensive as all hell.
i have been reading how other have been taking it, (10 weeks!!!!??? )
if  i was to try it it would be for 2 weeks.. see how my body reacts to it...


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## prolangtum (Dec 23, 2003)

Not sure where you read 10 weeks, generally it has been ran 2-4 weeks, 2 weeks usually.

Liver support supps would be NAC, milk thistle, and either ALA or r-ALA. 

Not too expensive really, mike at 1fast400 will have 60 5 mg caps for under $30 in a couple weeks.


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## Mudge (Dec 23, 2003)

Never heard of 10 weeks either and I'm on a barrage of message boards, now for a regular old steroid cycle with a hard and long post cycle sure.


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## PreMier (Dec 23, 2003)

Dale--  Where did you buy your M1-T from?  Its made by Kilosports right?  I CANT find a place to buy it


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## JerseyDevil (Dec 23, 2003)

http://www.kilosports.com/productdesc.cfm?ProductName=METHYL-1-TEST


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## PreMier (Dec 23, 2003)

Thank you very much JP.


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## samat631 (Dec 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by PreMier *_
> Dale--  Where did you buy your M1-T from?  Its made by Kilosports right?  I CANT find a place to buy it





its cheapest here, but i hate ordering shit online.
http://www.discountanabolics.com/page/DA/PROD/VPX_SPORTS/VM1


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## samat631 (Dec 23, 2003)

damn never mind i like the kilosports one! cheeep!


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## PreMier (Dec 23, 2003)

Plus its not a liquid.  Wonder what is more effective..?


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## samat631 (Dec 23, 2003)

theres so many damn terms ! wtf is DHT ??? in plain english please

by the way my name is sam, not samat! lol im english not indian. lol its sam-at-631

oh yea and i really appreciate all ur help guys thnx very much!


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## samat631 (Dec 23, 2003)

i think they are liquid gels, so i dont think there is much diff from the liquid except they have more accurate doseage.... 
m1-t doesnt aromitize!!! hellz yeaa


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## samat631 (Dec 23, 2003)

i foudn this  other 1-test that completely bypasses the liver. mag-10!! then i wont have to deal with this liver support nonsense... and dont worry im not a big drinker...no drinks on prosteroids...


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## PreMier (Dec 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by samat631 *_
> m1-t doesnt aromitize!!! hellz yeaa




It may not aromatize, but it will raise your test levels, and in turn, raise your estrogen levels to match.  So although they can claim there is no aromitazation, you still get increased estrogen.  Hence the post cycle 6-OXO, or Nolvadex/HCG


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## Mudge (Dec 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by samat631 *_
> i think they are liquid gels, so i dont think there is much diff from the liquid except they have more accurate doseage....
> m1-t doesnt aromitize!!! hellz yeaa



No aromitization usually means lack of size gains. Aromitization is NOT a bad word so dont treat it like one, estrogen is not the devil believe it or not.


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## jmr1979 (Dec 24, 2003)

also mag 10 can't even compare to m1t


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## prolangtum (Dec 24, 2003)

What isn't Mag-10 130% bioavailable!!!!

j/k


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## samat631 (Dec 24, 2003)

lol no doubt...
does ur body need higher estrogen levels when u have higher test levels?


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## Mudge (Dec 24, 2003)

It naturally occurs, however estrogen in the male body comes from aromitization. Aromatase enzymes lie in the male bodyfat, this is why higher bodyfat levels are not wise when cycling, or bulking for that matter.


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## samat631 (Dec 25, 2003)

i just read on a different forum that m1-t will be illegal soon...? what do u guys think?


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## Mudge (Dec 25, 2003)

Some people are guessing 6 months, for this price, if you like the product - stock up. Of course this would still mean you would be breaking the law if you used it when the law passed.


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## samat631 (Dec 25, 2003)

but its easily accessible right now. i could never get my hands on gear plus the fact that real gear is way more expensive and hardcore. do u use m1-t urself mudge? or the real shit?


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## Mudge (Dec 25, 2003)

Way more expensive and hardcore?   Pricing always varies man, I've seen someone marking up a product twice what it cost from the "original" source.

Funny. I dont use it by itself no. Honestly I am wary of it being a weight gainer at all other than in small amounts, lots of conflicting information out there right now. Some gain weight like anadrol and some only get fina like results, strength and vascularity with small amounts of 'quality' muscle gains.

I have just started using it so I have nothing to say about it first hand, 20mg a day, if after a week I am dissapointed I will try 30mg a day.

With the results people get on it, I would try it at least once, before 1-AD or anything else.


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## samat631 (Dec 25, 2003)

wow thats suprizing....this guy dave said it costs about $600 !! for a cycle, of the skin stuff...but he didnt even say what kind....i was just like..."ummmm..."


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 25, 2003)

Well, I found access to a comp.  My gains have stayed and my strength is still where it was.  My nuts shrank,  but after 1 week on 6 pills of 6-oxo, they are back, but I will finish the 2 bottles anyway.  The cramps took a bit to go away, but they were very mild, hardly even noticeable.  Well, that be it, happy holidays to you all.


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## Mudge (Dec 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by samat631 *_
> wow thats suprizing....this guy dave said it costs about $600 !! for a cycle, of the skin stuff...but he didnt even say what kind....i was just like..."ummmm..."



Skin stuff? For acne or what, that would be Accutane which costs me 50 cents for 20mg - which puts me at 2 dollars a day.


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## samat631 (Dec 25, 2003)

what a deal....


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## prolangtum (Dec 25, 2003)

I would stay away from accutane, very harsh on the liver. If acne is a problem, I would use high dose B5, it virtually eliminates my on cycle acne.


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## Mudge (Dec 26, 2003)

I was hitting 12g of B5, it helps, but apperantly was not converting well enough in my body to do anything near what accutane could do.

Off cycle I bet it would have been much more effective.


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## MTN WARRIOR (Dec 26, 2003)

I understand the negatives of booze, but I have noticed specifics about people not using booze at all during 1-Test/M-1T cycles.  Are there other side effects other than dropping test production, shitty calories etc?


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## MTN WARRIOR (Dec 26, 2003)

Sorry, one other question.  Trying to buy 6-OXO on kilsports, what is its trues name, cant seem to find it?


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## Mudge (Dec 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by MTN WARRIOR *_
> I understand the negatives of booze, but I have noticed specifics about people not using booze at all during 1-Test/M-1T cycles.  Are there other side effects other than dropping test production, shitty calories etc?



If you are putting a strain on your liver why do double duty, plus what is the point of being an alcoholic and lifter at the same time? A drink or two a week is hardly a big deal, but if you are a daily drinker it hardly seems to fit the lifestyle.


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## prolangtum (Dec 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by MTN WARRIOR *_
> Sorry, one other question.  Trying to buy 6-OXO on kilsports, what is its trues name, cant seem to find it?


http://www.bulknutrition.com/?products_id=674&osCsid=d168796e31b5746151d8a7b941397e60

$5 a gram, androstenetrione


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## samat631 (Dec 26, 2003)

i got hawthorn berry, and dandelion root extract today for my post cycle therapy....when ever i decide to do a cycle of m1-t.... i know i know, still more stuff to buy....


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## plouffe (Dec 27, 2003)

Milk Thistle + NAC + VITIMAN B-COMPLEX.. Try just getting a Liver Support Supplment with abunch of shit in it..


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## Mudge (Dec 27, 2003)

Tylers Liver Detox is the "liver support supplement with abunch of shit in it"

You will pay out the rear for it too.


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## MTN WARRIOR (Dec 29, 2003)

I'm not a boozer Mudge, thanks for the concern though.  I did get bombed once on 1-T and probably had 3 beers the rest of the month total.


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