# Max-OT.... Does it work?



## squanto (Nov 20, 2005)

Sorry for the long post, but if you have done Max-OT I'd really appreciate some input.

About a week ago I finished up a 9-week cycle of P/RR/S. I want to try something new, and am interested in more of a strength-oriented weight training program. I'd like to start something tomorrow, and have been reading up on Max-OT here: http://www.freedomfly.net/Documents/MAX-OT.pdf

What do you guys think of this program? For the most part it seems like it could work, but I can't help but notice the author saying some things that just are not correct. For example:

He states that 4-6 repetitions are the best and only way to train correctly, because after that point you cannot keep up the same intensity. However, he advocates training abs with 12-15, and 8-10 rep schemes. Isn't the rectus abdominis a muscle? Why would this muscle be any different?

Supposedly I'm supposed to get at least 53% of my calories from protein, 37% from carbs, and the remaining 20% from fats. Did he pull these numbers out of his ass, or is it really that exact? Seems like he's full of shit here, but I could be wrong.

His first example workout for Arms and Abs has 18 sets in it. Rest time is supposed to be 2-3 minutes. He also stresses doing 6 warm up sets to warm a muscle, resting 2 minutes between sets. So total, that is 36 sets, each taking approximately 3 minutes. 36 x 3 is 108, so this workout should take 108 minutes to complete. Yet he stresses that the workouts MUST be 30-40 minutes in length. I've changed abs to a less stressed day, the chest, but how could the author not notice this? This also seems like way too many warm up sets, what would you suggest?

He also talks about training the "lower" pec muscle with decline press. I know how everyone here feels about this statement.

The schedule he has set up is a 5-day per week workout plan, with very short workouts. I can see this as working, but what about cardio? I usualyl do cardio twice a week, and was thinking of "upgrading" to 3-4 times per week. Should I do cardio in the morning, completely separate from my workout, or just do it after the workout? Or does it matter?

I'm usually not this nit-picky, but the author stresses how this program must be followed to the T or else you won't get proper results. I can't help but question the validity of this author, after seeing some of these things he writes.

So, to summarize... who uses the Max-OT system, or has used it in the past? Does it work? Does this author know what he's talking about even a little bit? I'm starting to have doubts.

Thanks for reading my super-long post, what do y'all think? If this system is worthwhile, does anyone have any better links to describe it, or is this guy doing an ok job?


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## CowPimp (Nov 20, 2005)

squanto said:
			
		

> He states that 4-6 repetitions are the best and only way to train correctly, because after that point you cannot keep up the same intensity. However, he advocates training abs with 12-15, and 8-10 rep schemes. Isn't the rectus abdominis a muscle? Why would this muscle be any different?



Certain muscles are inherently high in red fiber.  This means that generally these muscles will respond favorably to more moderate repetition ranges.  Nonetheless, it is still a muscle, so implementing higher intensity loading patterns is good on occasion.  You still want to stimulate all the various fiber types.




> Supposedly I'm supposed to get at least 53% of my calories from protein, 37% from carbs, and the remaining 20% from fats. Did he pull these numbers out of his ass, or is it really that exact? Seems like he's full of shit here, but I could be wrong.



I think that is totally ridiculous.  Following his logic, I would be ingesting about 500 grams of protein per day while trying to bulk.  This is completely ludicrous.  The rate of protein turnover in even a genetically gifted human is not great enough to warrant this kind of protein intake.  Not to mention that it requires a great deal of energy to convert protein into energy, so you will have to eat more calories in the end anyway.

Also, 10% (I know you said 20, but it is 10; I remember) of your diet consisting of fat is terrible.  Testosterone is manufactured from saturated fat, and your body needs a multitude of other fatty acids in order to maintain proper function.  

This guy knows dick about nutrition.  His logic is basically that your muscles are made of protein, so you need to eat a lot.  Okay, fair enough, but you can just pull really big numbers out of your ass and hope they fit the bill.




> His first example workout for Arms and Abs has 18 sets in it. Rest time is supposed to be 2-3 minutes. He also stresses doing 6 warm up sets to warm a muscle, resting 2 minutes between sets. So total, that is 36 sets, each taking approximately 3 minutes. 36 x 3 is 108, so this workout should take 108 minutes to complete. Yet he stresses that the workouts MUST be 30-40 minutes in length. I've changed abs to a less stressed day, the chest, but how could the author not notice this? This also seems like way too many warm up sets, what would you suggest?



His sample workouts are sometimes retarded.  There is no way you can follow all of the parameters and finish in 30-40 minutes.  Just design your own workouts using those high rest intervals that you can finish in that time frame.  Just stay below 15 working sets in a workout, and you should be able to finish within a short period of time like that.  I believe I did 12 sets per workout when I was performing Max-OT.

Also, don't rest 2 minutes in between warmup sets.  That is unecessary.  Just do low effort, but progressive, warmups and use little to no rest in between.




> He also talks about training the "lower" pec muscle with decline press. I know how everyone here feels about this statement.



I'm not going to touch this one.  Everyone on here knows my feelings on this.




> The schedule he has set up is a 5-day per week workout plan, with very short workouts. I can see this as working, but what about cardio? I usualyl do cardio twice a week, and was thinking of "upgrading" to 3-4 times per week. Should I do cardio in the morning, completely separate from my workout, or just do it after the workout? Or does it matter?



I usually try to separate cardio and lifting as much as possible.  Do cardio on your days off, and on the days you lift try to separate the two session by as much time as you can.  You could also do mild amounts of cardio after you finish working out (15 minutes or so), but I wouldn't do too much if gaining mass is what you're after.  Doing some extra cardio is one thing, but doing it in a catabolic state is a bad idea.

You could also just not do a 5 day split, which is my suggestion.



> I'm usually not this nit-picky, but the author stresses how this program must be followed to the T or else you won't get proper results. I can't help but question the validity of this author, after seeing some of these things he writes.



Oh bullshit.  Follow it to a T my ass.  He contradicts himself way too much.  His sample programs don't allow you to follow it to a T.  

Just follow the basic principles: lift heavy, use high rest intervals, use abbreviated workout sessions, train your major muscle groups once per week, and go near or to muscular failure on all working sets.




> So, to summarize... who uses the Max-OT system, or has used it in the past? Does it work? Does this author know what he's talking about even a little bit? I'm starting to have doubts.
> 
> Thanks for reading my super-long post, what do y'all think? If this system is worthwhile, does anyone have any better links to describe it, or is this guy doing an ok job?



I have used it and saw some results in strength.  I was eating maintenance level calories, so I can't comment on effectiveness for gaining mass.  However, others have had success, so it is certainly worth trying.


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## Mudge (Nov 20, 2005)

53% + 37% + 20% = 110%

Diets are individual, so it might be exact for some but not for everyone.


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## CowPimp (Nov 20, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> 53% + 37% + 20% = 110%
> 
> Diets are individual, so it might be exact for some but not for everyone.



I think it sucks for anyone and everyone.  Heh.  Fats are supposed to be 10%.


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## camarosuper6 (Nov 21, 2005)

I have used MAX OT or its basic parameters for about 75-80 percent of the last two years or so of my training, and I have turned some decent numbers in the gym, with a good amount of size (granted, much of this was during some M1-T cycles and such, before they were banned..)

I also find some interesting condradictions in there myself, and have even written Paul Cribb (who usually answers my questions) about them, but havent had a reply lately...

Its a good basic program, I still use most of its principles, but with lower volume and sometimes slightly higher reps ( 8 is usually my high, never higher than 10).


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## Skate67 (Nov 21, 2005)

squanto said:
			
		

> He also talks about training the "lower" pec muscle with decline press. I know how everyone here feels about this statement.



Jeeze everyone on this board knows, that decline bench isolates the lower pec, bench does middle, and incline works the upper pec.  Have you been living under a rock?


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## squanto (Nov 22, 2005)

Thanks for the responses guys. Well today I did my first Max-OT workout, after a week off, and hit 205 x 6, a personal best for me. Must be working already right?  
But I did like the workout; low rep, high intensity training is definately my favorite kind. On another note, I'm glad I'm not the only one who had trouble digesting this guy's writing.


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## Hank1974 (Apr 3, 2008)

Hey guys, new member here.

I've been working out for a few years now and I'm always looking for a new program.
Recently I stumbled on Max-OT and I guess I'm like a lot of dinosaurs in that I'm scared to try anything that makes me work less.

Normally I like to do at least 12 sets for every body part (except for legs where I like to do 18 and tris' 15).

But my rest period is only 45-60 seconds inbetween sets. 

After reading Max-OT I really liked what he said about how the rest period is more important than actually lifting.

I've been doing this program for 2 weeks now and it just feels so odd to end a bicep workout after 5 sets. I've always done higher weights and lower reps so I can understand that, so I guess I'm just paranoid that by doing less sets I'll lose what I've gained.

I noticed that this thread was started in 2005 so I'm interested to hear if anyone has done this program and what results they might have achieved.

Thanks!


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## CowPimp (Apr 3, 2008)

Hank1974 said:


> Hey guys, new member here.
> 
> I've been working out for a few years now and I'm always looking for a new program.
> Recently I stumbled on Max-OT and I guess I'm like a lot of dinosaurs in that I'm scared to try anything that makes me work less.
> ...



There is sufficient volume in Max-OT to induce growth in most.  My problem with the program is that there is no variation in training variables.  It's always sets of 4-6 reps.  Sometimes you are going to want to include more volume, and sometimes it is good to go heavier than that too.  It is also good to alter your frequency and rest periods.  You also don't want to be training to failure all the time as they suggest.

It's an okay program, but no program should be done forever without change.


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## Meudi (Mar 16, 2010)

*Max OT*

I am also new to these forums, I was looking to see the timing on the workouts also.  To me, it seems like sometimes its not possible to do it all in under 45 min.  But I see that a lot of people are having that problem.  

But Im using this program right now, and I have to say that I do my own nutrition plan, but other then that, the program works great.  Im on week 3 right now and my max bench has already increased 35 lbs.  My max Leg press is up 50 lbs.  Those are the only 2 i really track my max on for now, but after about 2 and a half weeks, thats pretty good progress I think.

And why do you all have a problem with Decline BP working lower Pecs?  This is really interesting to me because I have always, always heard that it did....if it doesnt, what work-out would work the lower pec and can you prove that it doesnt work the lower pec?


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## Hank1974 (Mar 16, 2010)

Meudi said:


> I am also new to these forums, I was looking to see the timing on the workouts also.  To me, it seems like sometimes its not possible to do it all in under 45 min.  But I see that a lot of people are having that problem.
> 
> But Im using this program right now, and I have to say that I do my own nutrition plan, but other then that, the program works great.  Im on week 3 right now and my max bench has already increased 35 lbs.  My max Leg press is up 50 lbs.  Those are the only 2 i really track my max on for now, but after about 2 and a half weeks, thats pretty good progress I think.
> 
> And why do you all have a problem with Decline BP working lower Pecs?  This is really interesting to me because I have always, always heard that it did....if it doesnt, what work-out would work the lower pec and can you prove that it doesnt work the lower pec?



Decline bench has done wonders for my lower chest. I noticed an improvement as soon as I added this to my routine.

However, some people prefer weighted dips. I do these as well but feel I get a better pump and results with the dec. bench.

Right now I've been doing a mix of Max-OT and full body workouts.
They sure kick your butt. Trying to fit in 21 sets in 45 minutes is freakin' rough!


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## Meudi (Mar 16, 2010)

*Thanks*

Thanks for the response.  I still dont know why those other guys were tripping out about someone saying that it works your lower pec.  I guess their just....wierd.  Anyways, Im just following the Max-OT plan right now, and my first 2 weeks it had me do weighted dips for chest and no decline bench.  I guess now i know why.  I didnt know that weighted dips work lower chest.  Now i know why that workout was in there.  Thanks again, you cleared things up a little bit for me.


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## Arnold (Mar 16, 2010)

FYI - we have the entire MAX OT training program in a PDF doc, just become an Elite member to access it. http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/payments.php


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## GearsMcGilf (Mar 16, 2010)

As long as you throw in neovar and creatine beta alanine, you're guaranteed to get huge with Max-OT.  In some cases, with such a strong placebo stack, training is not even necessary as yuo might get far too huge.

GICH!


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## Hank1974 (Mar 16, 2010)

Meudi said:


> Thanks for the response.  I still dont know why those other guys were tripping out about someone saying that it works your lower pec.  I guess their just....wierd.  Anyways, Im just following the Max-OT plan right now, and my first 2 weeks it had me do weighted dips for chest and no decline bench.  I guess now i know why.  I didnt know that weighted dips work lower chest.  Now i know why that workout was in there.  Thanks again, you cleared things up a little bit for me.



I'm not sure what the big deal is either.
Some guy even took time out of his obviously busy day to PM me only to say "STFU" about decline bench. Must feel awesome to be an internet tough guy. 

Anyway, there's lots of opinion out there about everything. But do what works best for your body. I really like the decline bench as it's developed my lower chest with great results.
I also enjoy dip's. To each his own.

I've seen some very big dudes who have vastly different workout routines. Some guys never touch a bar when bench pressing. Others don't do anything for their bi's other than Chin-ups.

If it works for you, keep at it.


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