# Creatine, Strength, and IM Labs CEE



## CowPimp (Oct 31, 2006)

I've been reading about creatine and thinking about giving it a shot.  I figure after about 3 years of good solid training and proper eating I have earned the right to give it a try.

First off, I was just curious what kind of strength gains people have seen with creatine supplementation?  I don't care all that much about the mass gains, but I suppose experiences with that aspect of the supplement would be appreciated too.

Do you find loading really necessary?  It doesn't seem to me like loading is entirely necessary, it will just take an extra couple of weeks to see results without loading first.  A study I read seemed to indicate similar results after several weeks of a more moderate intake.

Also, does anyone have experiences specifically with IronMagLabs CEE?  Just curious if you notice anything different from other brands out there?  I would probably give it a shot to support this place regardless, but I figured I would ask anyway.


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## Double D (Oct 31, 2006)

Wow you have never tried creatine CP? Thats crazy. Anyhow, The first time I took it I took an EAS product called Phosphagen hp. It was loaded with sugar, but I did experience some pretty decent strength gains as well as gaining like 10 pounds (water). But the main thing was I felt like I could go forever into a workout. I think it helped with the maximal pump I was getting.


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## CowPimp (Oct 31, 2006)

Double D said:


> Wow you have never tried creatine CP? Thats crazy. Anyhow, The first time I took it I took an EAS product called Phosphagen hp. It was loaded with sugar, but I did experience some pretty decent strength gains as well as gaining like 10 pounds (water). But the main thing was I felt like I could go forever into a workout. I think it helped with the maximal pump I was getting.



Thanks for the quick response.  Generally I am pretty anti-supplement.  I really have no reason to be, and I alread do take a few supplements: whey protein, multivitamin, and fish oil.


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## Mista (Oct 31, 2006)

Double D said:


> Wow you have never tried creatine CP? Thats crazy. Anyhow, The first time I took it I took an EAS product called Phosphagen hp. It was loaded with sugar, but I did experience some pretty decent strength gains as well as gaining like 10 pounds (water). *But the main thing was I felt like I could go forever into a workout*. I think it helped with the maximal pump I was getting.




I found this also. My muscles seemed to look alot fuller. I used EndoCre3 which is a multiplier. I didn't load, worked basically from the first time.


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## Double D (Oct 31, 2006)

Ya, I remember whenever it first came out I think I was like a junior or so in high school. All kinds of negative publicity is got. It was nonstop on every tv so that tells you enough about creatine. If something works like that of course they are going to talk so negative about it. And if it didnt work they wouldnt have said a word.


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## Boost777 (Oct 31, 2006)

My experience was strength gains and some gains in weight, however I feel that once off of it I came to the conclusion that I really accomplished nothing.  This was a time when I wasn't as regimented as now, but you asked and so you shall receive.


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## dontsurfonmytur (Oct 31, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> I've been reading about creatine and thinking about giving it a shot.  I figure after about 3 years of good solid training and proper eating I have earned the right to give it a try.
> 
> First off, I was just curious what kind of strength gains people have seen with creatine supplementation?  I don't care all that much about the mass gains, but I suppose experiences with that aspect of the supplement would be appreciated too.
> 
> ...





cowpimp, take it from a guy whos taken most of the creatines out there, just go with micronized creatine monohydrate. I am telling you man, it is the "classic" you cannot go wrong. Just take 5 g with ur postworkout shake when u train, and when you don't train you can either choose to take it with some kind of sugary drink that has dextrose in it or just water. Also i would supp with ALA (it is also a powerful antioxidant), to help with the absorbtion. I belive CEE is way overrated and too complex.


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## fUnc17 (Nov 1, 2006)

I never really stuck with mono, the sugary drinks were hard to down. Filled me up real quick. I also got headaches from mono, even though i was drinking about 1.5 gallons of water a day, never got a headache from CEE

I stuck with CEE, and agree with the above posts. I could go for much longer, less muscle fatigue, fuller, stronger. No complaints from CEE.


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## Gordo (Nov 1, 2006)

I'm a non-responder to mono but CEE was much more effective. No experience with IML's CEE but I've read positive things.
Not so much strength gains but increased work capacity (which, I guess, leads to strength gains).


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## nni (Nov 1, 2006)

yeah if you are new to creatine going with straight creatine mono (creapure) is the way to go. if you find that you are a non responder than cee is the way to go. cee in bulk tastes terrible, so if you are looking for straight cee get a capped product, if you want a powder, our xceed is the way to go.


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## ffemt (Nov 1, 2006)

Double D said:


> Wow you have never tried creatine CP? Thats crazy. Anyhow, The first time I took it I took an EAS product called Phosphagen hp. It was loaded with sugar, but I did experience some pretty decent strength gains as well as gaining like 10 pounds (water). But the main thing was I felt like I could go forever into a workout. I think it helped with the maximal pump I was getting.



Same here,how ever the first time I took it I loaded,the next I did not could not tell the diff.But!there is a diff.in creatine and how it effects me.Now it's only EAS Phosphagen hp.Every things else seems to hurt my stomach.Good luck!


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## MCx2 (Nov 1, 2006)

I never really noticed anything when taking Creatine Mono other than drinking 2 gallons of water a day, and still being dehydrated (my lips were chapped all the time). I bought some IML CEE and noticed it within a few days. I wouldn't say I felt stronger, but I could defintely get a few more reps out of each set, I also appeared more vascular for some reason which is a nice added extra. I will be starting it again in a few weeks.


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## largepkg (Nov 1, 2006)

FatCatMC said:


> I never really noticed anything when taking Creatine Mono other than drinking 2 gallons of water a day, and still being dehydrated (my lips were chapped all the time). I bought some IML CEE and noticed it within a few days. I wouldn't say I felt stronger, but I could defintely get a few more reps out of each set, I also appeared more vascular for some reason which is a nice added extra. I will be starting it again in a few weeks.




I had a very similar experience with mono as well. I switched bulk CEE powder and have never turned back. I did notice a fairly sizable difference in strength though. Maybe on the order of 5% in 4 weeks.


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## BigDyl (Nov 1, 2006)

I am a responder to CEE, but I seem to have more of a response to mono.


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## Witchblade (Nov 1, 2006)

Not part of the discussion, but creatine is pretty expensive. I'm not aware of your budget, but I'd reconsider buying it if you're short on cash. Especially because you lose most of your gains when you stop taking it, from what I've heard.


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## BulkMeUp (Nov 1, 2006)

I did respond to Mono, but it also gave me a lot of bloat/gas (trouble explained the reason in a past post, though i cant remember exactly what). CEE dosent give any bloat. Mono is tasteless and CEE tastes terrible until you get accustomed to it (assuming you will be using bulk powder). From what Emma suggested, better to take Creatine with a formulation rather than by itself. I havent tried IM's product so i cant comment on that.


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## largepkg (Nov 1, 2006)

Witchblade said:


> Not part of the discussion, *but creatine is pretty expensive*. I'm not aware of your budget, but I'd reconsider buying it if you're short on cash. Especially because you lose most of your gains when you stop taking it, from what I've heard.





Huh?  

Partner, I bought 1000 grams of powder for less than $40. This is enough to cover me for 7 months! Dollar for dollar it's on of the least expensive supps.


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## CowPimp (Nov 1, 2006)

Wow, thanks for all the responses.  Okay, so from what I gather:

Most people seemed to notice a significantly increased work capacity, and at least minor gains in size and strength, but sometimes more substantial.

Monohydrate is cheaper and more tried and true, but has the potential to dehydrate you and give you bloating/gas.  CEE doesn't seem to have those side effects, and it may work if one is a non-responder to the monohydrate.  CEE is also a bit more expensive and tastes like crap, unless you get pills.

Loading doesn't seem to make a difference, though the gains may come on a bit quicker initially.

Anything I missed?


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## nR_Kris (Nov 1, 2006)

well first i started with mono (GNC's regular creatine monohydrated)and did nothin to me, then i tryed the wonderful "cell tech"  when i finished the 7lb bottle i found i gain little strenght so my conclusion was non mono-crea responder, then tricreatine malate came to the market, so i went for sans V12 (later v 12 turbo version) i gained lots of strenght 55%(increment of the weight) for chest,42% shoulder, 55% back, 28 % arms, 65 % for legs, so yeah i found tricreatine my best supp,but the bad thing ull gain only water weight 10 pounds-15 pounds (on tricrea), but when u stop ull lose like 95% of the "gained" weight ,anyways i had fun trying this stuff


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## CowPimp (Nov 1, 2006)

I decided to buy a bottle of the IMLabs stuff.  I'll give it a shot and see how I like it.  Pretty cheap overall, really.  I've been reading that only a few grams a day is really necessary.  $25 for a 2 month or so supply is great if it makes for some good gains.

I will report back after a few weeks of supplementation, or sooner if results are that quick.


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## Seanp156 (Nov 1, 2006)

Witchblade said:


> Not part of the discussion, but creatine is pretty expensive. I'm not aware of your budget, but I'd reconsider buying it if you're short on cash. Especially because you lose most of your gains when you stop taking it, from what I've heard.



Bulk CEE is NOT expensive... you can get 1000 grams in powdered form for ~$35... You really only need 3 grams per day... That's 333.3 servings for $35; not what I would call expensive. Granted pure CEE in powdered form tastes horrible, but it's cost effective.

As far as loading goes, I do not find it, nor think it is necessary... I don't have any experience using monohydrate, so I can't vouch for the loading aspects being any different for that form of creatine.


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## Plateau_Max (Nov 2, 2006)

Cell Mass from the BSN Mass Stack is a CEE and it doesn't taste bad at all.  I found that I'm a pretty good responder to that, even though I do have about a tablespoon of mono-powder before my training sessions that involve the heaviest lifting.


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## BigDyl (Nov 2, 2006)

The taste is so horrible I want to kill myself.  Which is why pills are 100000000000000000000x better than powder.


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## Twin Peak (Nov 2, 2006)

BigDyl said:


> The taste is so horrible I want to kill myself.  Which is why pills are 100000000000000000000x better than powder.



CEE is aweful.  Unless you know how to flavor it right.


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## largepkg (Nov 2, 2006)

2 tablespoons of orange Gatorade, 5 grams of CEE, and 5oz water =  


*Side note* This is downed like a shot while pinching my nose.


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## Double D (Nov 2, 2006)

CP in my opinion whenever the first time a person takes creatine they ought to load it for the first week or whatever it is. But its just my own bias opinion. I bought like 1,000 grams from prosource for like 30 bucks or so. Obviously not expensive whatsoever. Wish you the best with it, oh and personally it did nothing to dehydrate me and remember I took the phosphagen hp and to my knowledge that was mono.


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## ffemt (Nov 2, 2006)

Just a side note;I've read all of the post and hear alot of guys talking about how bad the taste is.The stuff I use is from EAS it's Phosphagen hp fruit punch.It's great and taste good too.However I've tryed a fruit punch from Body Fuel products and it sucks,also give me the sceaming shits.just my 2 cents worth


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## CowPimp (Nov 2, 2006)

Double D said:


> CP in my opinion whenever the first time a person takes creatine they ought to load it for the first week or whatever it is. But its just my own bias opinion. I bought like 1,000 grams from prosource for like 30 bucks or so. Obviously not expensive whatsoever. Wish you the best with it, oh and personally it did nothing to dehydrate me and remember I took the phosphagen hp and to my knowledge that was mono.



Are you referring to loading with monohydrate, CEE, or both?  From what I understand, even those who think loading is a good idea with monohydrate feel it is less necessary with CEE.


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## Twin Peak (Nov 2, 2006)

ffemt said:


> Just a side note;I've read all of the post and hear alot of guys talking about how bad the taste is.The stuff I use is from EAS it's Phosphagen hp fruit punch.It's great and taste good too.However I've tryed a fruit punch from Body Fuel products and it sucks,also give me the sceaming shits.just my 2 cents worth



That is not CEE.


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## Gordo (Nov 2, 2006)

Phosphagen hp is just mono with a shit load of sugar.... no doubt it tastes good


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## ffemt (Nov 2, 2006)

So what I'am using is wrong?Please explain.I hope not just bought 2lbs yesterday.


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## largepkg (Nov 2, 2006)

ffemt said:


> So what I'am using is wrong?Please explain.I hope not just bought 2lbs yesterday.




Not wrong. It's just not CEE, it's Mono. CEE powder is what taste like crap, not Mono.


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## ffemt (Nov 2, 2006)

Thanks!Should I switch?I think I've see good results but could they be better?If so I'am willing to give it a try.Thanks again


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## Twin Peak (Nov 2, 2006)

ffemt said:


> Thanks!Should I switch?I think I've see good results but could they be better?If so I'am willing to give it a try.Thanks again



Don't throw it out.  When you are done switch to CEE and see if you like it better.  If not, stick with mono.


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## ffemt (Nov 2, 2006)

Sounds like a plan thanks again


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## P-funk (Nov 2, 2006)

I hate the taste of CEE personally.  Monohydrate works fine for me so I take that (like 2x's a year when I remeber to take it.  )


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## Double D (Nov 2, 2006)

CP I am talking about Mono. Like what was said Phosphagen hp is mono. Right now I am taking the German grade creatine from prosource. I have noticed some bloating from it, but have had some pretty good strength gains. But I dont think i can say it was from the creatine. I just started westside like a month and a half ago and I dont think it would be fair to say it was the creatine because I have always trained like a bb'er and not a powerlifter.


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## Lyons (Nov 2, 2006)

CEE is the way to go.  No bloat and good strength gains.  It does taste horrible, like a shot of vodka but worse.  So worth it though IMO.


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## CowPimp (Nov 2, 2006)

Lyons said:


> CEE is the way to go.  No bloat and good strength gains.  It does taste horrible, like a shot of vodka but worse.  So worth it though IMO.



I bought it in pill form, so hopefully I don't notice that.


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## BulkMeUp (Nov 3, 2006)

For those who take CEE powder, you can divide your dose to make it a bit more palatable. Something like 1/4 tsp earlier in the day, 1/4 later and 1/4 after wo. Taking 1/2 a tsp or more at a time is


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## Seanp156 (Nov 3, 2006)

BulkMeUp said:


> For those who take CEE powder, you can divide your dose to make it a bit more palatable. Something like 1/4 tsp earlier in the day, 1/4 later and 1/4 after wo. Taking 1/2 a tsp or more at a time is



Meh, better to get it overwith all at once than prolong the pain.


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## MCx2 (Nov 3, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> I bought it in pill form, so hopefully I don't notice that.


 
I take the pills as well, and Ive never tasted anything.


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## Double D (Nov 3, 2006)

Anyone take the Ironmags CEE?


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## MCx2 (Nov 3, 2006)

Double D said:


> Anyone take the Ironmags CEE?


 
I do.


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## Double D (Nov 3, 2006)

How do you like it compared to Mono?


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## MCx2 (Nov 3, 2006)

Double D said:


> How do you like it compared to Mono?


 
I guess I'm a "non-responder" to mono. Like I said earlier in the thread I wouldn't say I'm so much stronger, but I'd be able to do an 8,8,8 rep scheme with "x" amount of weight while taking it, and say 8,8,5 with the same amount of weight not taking it. So to me it's a worthwhile difference, even if it's only a few reps.


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## Double D (Nov 3, 2006)

Well I have only taken mono. And I got good results out of it. I am going to purchase some CEE soon. Thanks for the quick reply.


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## Arnold (Nov 3, 2006)

Double D said:


> Anyone take the Ironmags CEE?



yes.


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## Double D (Nov 3, 2006)

Robert DiMaggio said:


> yes.



Come on Robert dont be shy....how do you like it?


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## swordfish (Nov 3, 2006)

try kre alkayln, it supposedly absorbs much better than creatine mono. Be prepared for some good strength gains though!!


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## Witchblade (Nov 4, 2006)

largepkg said:


> Huh?
> 
> Partner, I bought 1000 grams of powder for less than $40. This is enough to cover me for 7 months! Dollar for dollar it's on of the least expensive supps.


Oh my god...

I'm never going to the shop where I bought my supps again! Creatine is like 30$ for a tiny bottle that will last you a month there. (I didn't buy creatine there though, I bought whey.)

By the way, can you put the creatine in your post workout shake so that it doesn't taste like crap?


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## largepkg (Nov 4, 2006)

Witchblade said:


> Oh my god...
> 
> I'm never going to the shop where I bought my supps again! Creatine is like 30$ for a tiny bottle that will last you a month there. (I didn't buy creatine there though, I bought whey.)
> 
> *By the way, can you put the creatine in your post workout shake so that it doesn't taste like crap*?




 

When on CEE I down my protein shake first then immediately follow that by CEE mixed with 2-3tbs of orange Gatorade in 5oz water, but yes you can mix it in the shake.


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## Will Brink (Nov 5, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> I've been reading about creatine and thinking about giving it a shot.  I figure after about 3 years of good solid training and proper eating I have earned the right to give it a try.
> 
> First off, I was just curious what kind of strength gains people have seen with creatine supplementation?  I don't care all that much about the mass gains, but I suppose experiences with that aspect of the supplement would be appreciated too.
> 
> ...



All of the research to date that finds creatine increases strength and bodycomp is has been done with one form of creatine and one form only: creatine monohydrate. If you want to fall for all the hype over the latest wiz bang form of creatine (this week it's CEE) that's up to you, just know it has essentialy zero research to support it's claims of being superior to CM.


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## fufu (Nov 5, 2006)

I'm currently using CEE. The most prominent affect I notice is quicker recovery between RI's. This means I can use shorter RI's and use the same amounts of weights I normally would. My endurance with alot of stuff increases. My favorite CEE supplement is Xceed, it is a bit expensive though, it also is an NO supp too. I'm using Ironmag CEE right now, it works fine, the price is good too.


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## BigPapaPump68 (Nov 5, 2006)

I can't take my creatine with a protein shake. I drink anywhere from 1.5 to 2 gallons of water a day, and even with that if I take them both together I get very bad headaches from being dehydrated. I take my cee 3 times a day in a 2:2:1 ratio.


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## Twin Peak (Nov 5, 2006)

WillBrink said:


> All of the research to date that finds creatine increases strength and bodycomp is has been done with one form of creatine and one form only: creatine monohydrate. If you want to fall for all the hype over the latest wiz bang form of creatine (this week it's CEE) that's up to you, just know it has essentialy zero research to support it's claims of being superior to CM.



Will, I didn't know you posted here.  Its nice to see you do.  I have a question for you as it relates to this post, have you ever used CEE and compared it to mono?


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## Arnold (Nov 5, 2006)

WillBrink said:


> All of the research to date that finds creatine increases strength and bodycomp is has been done with one form of creatine and one form only: creatine monohydrate. If you want to fall for all the hype over the latest wiz bang form of creatine (this week it's CEE) that's up to you, just know it has essentialy zero research to support it's claims of being superior to CM.



True, but the anecdotal evidence of CEE's effectiveness is overwhelming, and as TP asked have you even tried CEE?


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## CowPimp (Nov 5, 2006)

WillBrink said:


> All of the research to date that finds creatine increases strength and bodycomp is has been done with one form of creatine and one form only: creatine monohydrate. If you want to fall for all the hype over the latest wiz bang form of creatine (this week it's CEE) that's up to you, just know it has essentialy zero research to support it's claims of being superior to CM.



Fair point.  However, I have read a lot of positive anecdotal evidence from those who have tried both version of the supplement.  In fact, I can't recall seeing anyone negatively rating CEE relative to monohydrate.  

Also, I seem to be prone to holding water, and I'm worried monohydrate is going to leave me feeling bloated all the time.  I guess I shouldn't make assumptions without trying it, but the positive response to CEE seems to be overwhelmingly good.  Usually I'm not one to go purely on anecdotal evidence, but when it is this one-sided I have to give it a lot of credibility.  I figure $25 down the toilet is the worst scenario, which I can live with.


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## Nate K (Nov 5, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> In fact, I can't recall seeing anyone negatively rating CEE relative to monohydrate.



Mono works better for me but it has to be with a good amount of sugar.  After all the shit  tried I think juice and mono worked the best...but this was  3-4 years ago.  

I have read a few posts on the board where members like mono the best.


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## CowPimp (Nov 6, 2006)

Nate K said:


> Mono works better for me but it has to be with a good amount of sugar.  After all the shit  tried I think juice and mono worked the best...but this was  3-4 years ago.
> 
> I have read a few posts on the board where members like mono the best.



Well, we shall see.  I ordered the bottle of CEE from IM Labs several days ago.  Hopefully it comes soon and I can put the stuff to the test.


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## CowPimp (Nov 6, 2006)

CEE just came in the mail today.  I'll use it after my workout today for the first time.  I think I'm going to stick with only 3g a day for right now and see what that does for me.  From what I understand, that doseage is plenty.  If I don't notice anything, then I will double it to the recommended dosage (3g a day, 2x a day).


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## Arnold (Nov 6, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> CEE just came in the mail today.  I'll use it after my workout today for the first time.  I think I'm going to stick with only 3g a day for right now and see what that does for me.  From what I understand, that doseage is plenty.  If I don't notice anything, then I will double it to the recommended dosage (3g a day, 2x a day).



if you only plan on using 3grams per day I would take it pre-workout.


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## CowPimp (Nov 6, 2006)

Prince said:


> if you only plan on using 3grams per day I would take it pre-workout.



Okay.  What is the reason for that might I ask? 

Actually, I decided I'm going to take 6g a day for the first 5-7 days and then cut back a little bit.  Kind of like a mini loading with it.


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## largepkg (Nov 6, 2006)

Prince said:


> if you only plan on using 3grams per day I would take it pre-workout.




I figured the exact opposite. Wouldn't absorption be better PWO when the muscles are starved?


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## nni (Nov 6, 2006)

cee 3g pre, and 1-2 post.

pre is the time.


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## CowPimp (Nov 6, 2006)

I thought 3g was beyond maintenance with CEE?


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## BigPapaPump68 (Nov 7, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> I thought 3g was beyond maintenance with CEE?



It depends on the user. Some do fine with a lower dose such as 2 grams of cee, and some do a higher dose, such as 5 grams. Just a little tip, if you are going to take it post workout with a protein shake, I reccomend you drink a good amount of water after your shake. The dehydration headaches from creatine can get very bad, and if you have never tried it before, it can get very discouraging.


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## Twin Peak (Nov 7, 2006)

largepkg said:


> I figured the exact opposite. Wouldn't absorption be better PWO when the muscles are starved?



Depends if you are using it to _replenish_ creatine stores, or overfill them in anticipation of training.


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## CowPimp (Nov 28, 2006)

Just an update.  So far the creatine appears to be doing nothing in the way of strength.  I took 6g for the first 10 days or so and noticed no difference.  Now I am taking 3g a day.  

In fact, my strength started to wain a bit at the end of my last training mesocycle.  I may have been in a state of overreaching, so I still have hope for the supplement.  I'm unloading right now.  When I come back I'm going to start a radically different program soon and focus a little more on mass gains.  I hope the results are a little more promising that go-around.

I will come back with another update in a few weeks.


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## fufu (Nov 28, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Just an update.  So far the creatine appears to be doing nothing in the way of strength.  I took 6g for the first 10 days or so and noticed no difference.  Now I am taking 3g a day.
> 
> In fact, my strength started to wain a bit at the end of my last training mesocycle.  I may have been in a state of overreaching, so I still have hope for the supplement.  I'm unloading right now.  When I come back I'm going to start a radically different program soon and focus a little more on mass gains.  I hope the results are a little more promising that go-around.
> 
> I will come back with another update in a few weeks.



 

I think Trouble once said it can take a month of CEE supplementation to get its full effects. I could be completely wrong though. I hope it works out for you. I don't want you to stop abstaining from being "supplement free" to find a supplement that doesn't work. Ah well, it is all in the learning process. Good luck.


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## CowPimp (Nov 29, 2006)

fufu said:


> I think Trouble once said it can take a month of CEE supplementation to get its full effects. I could be completely wrong though. I hope it works out for you. I don't want you to stop abstaining from being "supplement free" to find a supplement that doesn't work. Ah well, it is all in the learning process. Good luck.



Yeah, I'm not giving up on it.  Like I said, the following are factors thus far:

I am pretty sure I began to overreach on my previous program before this unload week, I haven't been taking it that long, and I haven't been trying to gain weight.


After getting some more sleep over the past weekend and unloading by turning down the intensity on these past couple of workouts, I already feel much better.  I'm getting that "hungry to pound the weights" feeling again.  I never truly lost motivation, but now I feel like I want to set a dozen PRs next time I get in the gym, heh.  I have high hopes for this next phase of training I go through.  I will be attempting to add weight again to boot.


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