# epistane cycle.



## dannykray (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm going to run an IBE epistane cycle in a few weeks. what dosing and length would you guys suggest?? this is my first cycle so i was thinking of starting at 20 and then going up to 40 or 50. is a 6 or 7 week cycle too long?? i was originally thinking of doing a shorter one but most reviews i have read said it doesn't kick in till week 4, sometimes 5. any advice would be much appreciated.


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## colochine (Apr 3, 2012)

What mg are the caps each? 30mg a day for 6 weeks, have a pct lined up and take on cycle support...OR

be a man about this and get on test E 500mg/week for 12 weeks.

Oh yea what at your stats?


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## dannykray (Apr 3, 2012)

they are each 10mg and the bottle comes with 90. i was thinking id probably need two bottles.


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## Glycomann (Apr 3, 2012)

I would probably do 3-4 caps a day if I was a steroid virgin.  I am in the minority these days.  I really don't see a problem with a new guy doing a little oral cycle to see what's up.  Get your diet clean and lots of protein in it and you'll see some gains. Nice dry gains.  Any AAS will help you fill your muscles with glycogen.  That alone makes you look a lot harder and bigger. Over 6-8 weeks you'll gain a few lbs of lean mass on top of that.


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## dannykray (Apr 4, 2012)

yeah the only thing i am worried about running the 6 or 7 week is that it is methylated and i wasn't sure if that would be too hard on the liver at that length.


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## tallguy34 (Apr 4, 2012)

While Epi is methylated it really doesn't hit your liver as hard as say Superdrol. You could actually pull an 8 week cycle and still be fine, but since this is a first you can keep it to 7. The other good thing about Epi is the built in AI, won't have to worry about gyno. Yes you will need 2 bottles, maybe 3. 
Run it like this: dosage in mg 30/30/30/40/40/40/50

Make sure you have a liver support like Liv52 at recommended dose, grab some fish oil and run it between 8-10 grams, Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support is another good thing to throw in. Most importantly and I can't stress this enough SERM! GET A SERM!! Clomid, Torem, Nolva. Finding dosage on that is easy enough by looking through logs and using Google. 

FYI you can get the Liv52 and Cycle Support at orbitnutrition.com for a good price.


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## Vibrant (Apr 4, 2012)

I dont really know what epi is, I dont really keep track of all the ph's out there.

Just do a simple 10week test e or c cycle.


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## tallguy34 (Apr 4, 2012)

Vibrant said:


> I dont really know what epi is, I dont really keep track of all the ph's out there.
> 
> Just do a simple 10week test e or c cycle.



Its a beginner PH nothing super special. One of the most common and most loved PHs.


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## dannykray (Apr 4, 2012)

do i absolutely need to get a serm? could i get away with an ai like 6 bromo? even if i do a shorter cycle


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## tallguy34 (Apr 4, 2012)

> do i absolutely need to get a serm? could i get away with an ai like 6 bromo? even if i do a shorter cycle



Yes you have to have a SERM! Epi already has a built in AI so another one won't do you any good. A SERM will help you keep your gains and grow your nuts back. Without it you wasted your money and time. There are ways around a SERM by using the Pulse Method. This allows you to run it at a higher dose without a SERM but it also depends on your workout schedule as to whether you can do this method or not.


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## rubberring (Apr 4, 2012)

tallguy34 said:


> The other good thing about Epi is the built in AI, won't have to worry about gyno.





tallguy34 said:


> Epi already has a built in AI so another one won't do you any good.



Please stop perpetuating the myth that Epi is an AI. It _may _have some AI-like properties, but there are many cases where guys have gotten gyno during Epi cycles, and had extremely high E2 readings at 60mg a day. Just because IBE's bullsh_i_t literature from 2005 touts a related drug as a steroidal AI...


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## tallguy34 (Apr 4, 2012)

rubberring said:


> Please stop perpetuating the myth that Epi is an AI. It _may _have some AI-like properties, but there are many cases where guys have gotten gyno during Epi cycles, and had extremely high E2 readings at 60mg a day. Just because IBE's bullsh_i_t literature from 2005 touts a related drug as a steroidal AI...



I've never taken IBE Epi, I always have taken Havoc which I now see is a different compound. I apologize, in my mind Epi is Epi. With that being said then I would get an AI for the IBE...


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## rubberring (Apr 4, 2012)

tallguy34 said:


> I've never taken IBE Epi, I always have taken Havoc which I now see is a different compound. I apologize, in my mind Epi is Epi. With that being said then I would get an AI for the IBE...



Not a different steroid. Neither is an AI. See my PM.


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## tallguy34 (Apr 4, 2012)

I saw a couple threads regarding Epi and gyno, not umpteen. In my experience and everyone I've spoken with and know who has taken Epi have not had any gyno problems. Some actually said it helped reduce their gyno. There has been rebound gyno but that can happen with pretty much any compound. Either way its up to OP, if you do go with an AI then I'd suggested Formeron by Black Lion Research. 2 pumps applied to the chest and your good for the day, the owner is a member here and most everyone swears by it. You can pick it up at orbitnutrition.com. it should be back in stock here pretty soon. 

Oh, on a side note... I'm heavily gyno prone. Had surgery and dr missed a small portion which I didn't find out till a few weeks ago. I ran two Epi cycles and never had gyno issues, never used an AI. I'm on 600mg of test a week now and am having issues even with an AI! If that doesn't tell you how prone I am then idk what does... I know my AI isn't bunk either, so I'm having to take Nolva to help out.


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## dannykray (Apr 4, 2012)

well i think ill just get some clomid, daa, a natty test booster, and a ai and us that as my pct. ill use the clomid first and then move into the ai. Clomid Price - Dosage - Description - Buy Clomid MedicStar.net does this look like a good place to get it?


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## rubberring (Apr 4, 2012)

tallguy34 said:


> I saw a couple threads regarding Epi and gyno, not umpteen.



Whatever, guy. Google "gyno from epistane" and you'll see just as many threads on getting gyno from it as you will gyno reduction. 



tallguy34 said:


> Oh, on a side note... I'm heavily gyno prone. Had surgery and dr missed a small portion which I didn't find out till a few weeks ago. I ran two Epi cycles and never had gyno issues, never used an AI. I'm on 600mg of test a week now and am having issues even with an AI! If that doesn't tell you how prone I am then idk what does...



This is called _bro science_. How does your anecdotal experience trump that of someone who got gyno during an epi-only run?



tallguy34 said:


> I know my AI isn't bunk either



Please explain how you _know_ this. Which AI are you taking?


Regardless, I'm not here to argue with you. Bottom line is that Epi/Havoc or any clone is not an AI nor is it gyno-proof. Because it's a DHT derivative, it might theoretically compete with estrogen... but Proviron falls under that same category... and it certainly doesn't prevent gyno.


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## rubberring (Apr 4, 2012)

dannykray said:


> ill use the clomid first and then move into the ai.



You might wanna reverse that strategy. Exemestane for two weeks while taking the clomid, then finish up with a week or two of clomid. I actually prefer toremifene to clomid.


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## tallguy34 (Apr 4, 2012)

rubberring said:


> Whatever, guy. Google "gyno from epistane" and you'll see just as many threads on getting gyno from it as you will gyno reduction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First off, I haven't been disrespectful to you so please don't be to me. I'm just sharing my knowledge, if yours happens to counter mine that's fine. Gives OP two different views. Second I Googled 'gyno and Epistane' and I found a few threads on it where guys have gotten it. Most were rebound gyno. PHF and another forum were the only ones where a couple guys got it while on Epi, however the other forum was the same guy as on PHF so I don't particularly count that one. 

I'm telling my experiences and the experience of others I know and trust. In this game a good amount of stuff is broscience... bro.

My AI is Formeron, look at all the guys using it and their experiences. I've spoken with the owner about my case and we came to the agreement its not his product that is the issue. Its my body producing more aromatise than the Formeron can block and if the surgeon had done the job correctly I wouldn't be having this problem. 

If your not here to argue then why does it sound like your arguing? Okay, so its not an AI, you made your point, I concede that. But that does not change the fact Epi has anti-estro qualities and is an analog of an AI which makes it less likely to have estro related sides ie gyno, bloat, hair loss than other products similare in nature. 

I'm done bro, you can help OP out. Two different view points are better than none and I've said enough. I'm really not gonna argue this further.

OP, I'd do a little more research before starting your cycle. A couple things stand out that make me think you might not be ready. Lack of knowledge in knowing you need a SERM is the key thing for me. We all have to start somewhere so I'm not dogging on you by any means bro.


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## rubberring (Apr 4, 2012)

tallguy34 said:


> First off, I haven't been disrespectful to you so please don't be to me.



No one's being disrespectful to you. I didn't call you names or berate you. In fact, I repped you. I just happen to disagree with how you convey anecdotal perspective and perpetuated misinformation in such a matter-of-fact way. I find it pretty irresponsible, but it's not a moral judgment. I tend to agree that epi compounds have some AI-like qualities, but I just disagree with the mindset of, "You don't need an AI if you take epi." I've seen that backfire too many times.



tallguy34 said:


> I'm just sharing my knowledge, if yours happens to counter mine that's fine. Gives OP two different views.



If it were actual _knowledge, _there wouldn't be two different views. No offense, but neither one of us has a lot of _knowledge_ about the steroids these companies push. Patrick Arnold and many others have said repeatedly that epi compounds are misunderstood and aren't to be considered AIs.



tallguy34 said:


> In this game a good amount of stuff is broscience... bro.



See, that's just it. Hormone manipulation isn't a "game." There are serious repercussions when one haphazardly believes the pseudo-science so rampant on these forums.



tallguy34 said:


> My AI is Formeron, look at all the guys using it and their experiences.



Okay, Formeron (otc) is legit. I thought you were referring to a research chem... for which there is never any certainty... so that's why I asked.

I will add, however, that formestane is not a very strong AI, relatively speaking. That's probably why you're still fighting gyno even after most of your glandular tissue has been removed.



tallguy34 said:


> If your not here to argue then why does it sound like your arguing?



Again, not arguing. It's hard to interpret _tone_ on the internet. I thought repping you would communicate that. 

Anyway... cheers, and all the best.


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## tallguy34 (Apr 4, 2012)

rubberring said:


> No one's being disrespectful to you. I didn't call you names or berate you. In fact, I repped you. I just happen to disagree with how you convey anecdotal perspective and perpetuated misinformation in such a matter-of-fact way. I find it pretty irresponsible, but it's not a moral judgment. I tend to agree that epi compounds have some AI-like qualities, but I just disagree with the mindset of, "You don't need an AI if you take epi." I've seen that backfire too many times.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Apologies bro, I take the statement "whatever" as a sign of disrespect. Its just how I was raised. Just like a parent finds it disrespectful, I'm old school mentality with that. So I apologize bro. I don't want any hard feelings here, there is enough hating in forums as it is. 

Oh I agree neither one of us knows as much as say PA or even Prince or Heavy on here know. I don't even pretend to. I just know my experiences and the experiences of others and that's where a lot of learning comes from, especially with PHs due to there not being as much info on them as actual AAS. I'm sorry for how I misconstrued the information of Epi being an AI, the fact that it has the AI properties is more so what I meant without necessarily getting super in depth. Again, my experiences with it show its less likely to get gyno on Epi than say Superdrol (which I didn't get any estro sides either). My research shows more cases of non gyno from Epi than cases of someone getting gyno from it. Most of these are on PHF, so that leaves the question... were they really taking Epi or something that coulda been labeled Epi? Not saying that's what it was but there has to be more too it than that, either that or that are just way mo sensitive to that than I am. Especially since my buddies who have taken Epi are gyno prone and none of them had any estro sides. When I say game I'm mean the AAS/PH/DS scene as a whole, granted messing with hormones is not a game but its just a term that many use to cover the broad spectrum. I'm not trying to sound irresponsible as I am far from it. I sometimes has a direct and matter of fact tone that some feel makes me sound this way. 

As for my fighting gyno, the surgeon even admitted after a small biopsy that he accidentally left some in. He didn't think it had gotten into the muscle which it turns out it did. So my gyno problem is am existing one not a new case. Its a pain in the ass and the surgeon even said he would perform the operation free of charge since it was his mistake.  

Yes, interpreting tone is hard to determine over anything written. You did rep me but as I first said above I take the statement "whatever" as a sign of disrespect. So now that we have this cleared up a little.... What do you say bro? Can we hug it out and call it good? Get back to helping OP keep from fuckig himself up? Lol


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## Diesel618 (Apr 4, 2012)

Epistane is a quality steroid. I can't stand when people say not to bother with all the PH's out there. Epistane requires no conversion and is a potent steroid. Certainly stronger than say an anavar or tbol.


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## Tuco (Apr 4, 2012)

If you've ran Ph's or designer steroids before I would run it at 50mg a day for  5-6 weeks, with your cycle support, milk thistle, and liv. 52. Full pct is required. Good luck, keep learning. I started with PH's, but now...... Test is best!!


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## Diesel618 (Apr 5, 2012)

PITBULL915 said:


> Test is best!!




 so true


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## machinist9 (Apr 5, 2012)

PITBULL915 said:


> If you've ran Ph's or designer steroids before I would run it at 50mg a day for  5-6 weeks, with your cycle support, milk thistle, and liv. 52. Full pct is required. Good luck, keep learning. I started with PH's, but now...... Test is best!!


This is good advice if your going to do it.I have done a few cycles of ph's and the aas I am on now is so much better.ph's-never again.you feel so much better on test.


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## EATSCHILDREN (Apr 6, 2012)

I backended my last cycle with 60mg epi for 6 weeks.  Noticed some hardening effects, a libido boost but not a whole lot of strength or weight.


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## BIGBEN2011 (Apr 6, 2012)

i will tell you straight up from a 20 year vet these so called ph are steriods and some are way way stronger than hg test.i will not even tell you what kind of gains i made on a cycle of beastdrol because you would not belive me.but these ph work best put in with injectable test and other compounds.the only thing that comes close to beastdrol is tren.


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## tallguy34 (Apr 6, 2012)

BIGBEN2011 said:


> i will tell you straight up from a 20 year vet these so called ph are steriods and some are way way stronger than hg test.i will not even tell you what kind of gains i made on a cycle of beastdrol because you would not belive me.but these ph work best put in with injectable test and other compounds.the only thing that comes close to beastdrol is tren.



I'm interested in hearing your gains. Superdrol is no fucking joke for those that are able to handle it and Beastdrol is a really good SD clone!


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## dannykray (Apr 6, 2012)

yeah epi and beastdrol are actually oral steroids not phs. phs require conversion by the body and both epi and beast dont need conversion.


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