# PWO Carb



## flynike (Aug 5, 2012)

What do you all think about Rice cakes as a post workout carbohydrate? along w my protein. I can't have any fruits or wheat/gluten products


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## msumuscle (Aug 5, 2012)

I know a lot of guys that use rice cakes post workout.  I haven't tried it personally but they say it's much more satiating than waxy maize/dextrose/malto and they feel more filled out from it.


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## nikos_ (Aug 5, 2012)

don't use carbs at post shake


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## Kenny Croxdale (Aug 5, 2012)

nikos_ said:


> don't use carbs at post shake



Don't follow niko's advice.

Kenny Croxdale


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## flynike (Aug 5, 2012)

nikos_ said:


> don't use carbs at post shake


I like to use carbs w my post workout , it works for me


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## flynike (Aug 5, 2012)

msumuscle said:


> I know a lot of guys that use rice cakes post workout.  I haven't tried it personally but they say it's much more satiating than waxy maize/dextrose/malto and they feel more filled out from it.


I will be replacing 1-2 rice cakes w the strawberries


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## LightBearer (Aug 5, 2012)

nikos_ said:


> don't use carbs at post shake



Why not?


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## nikos_ (Aug 5, 2012)

flynike said:


> I like to use carbs w my post workout , it works for me




waste of money man
after your shake when did you have a meal??

if you eat in 40-60 minutes,why to use the carbs in post?

you know, the anabolic window in a myth,the insulin spike has nothing to do with proteinsynthesis
and the glocogen is stored
so,why bothered??


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## flynike (Aug 5, 2012)

nikos_ said:


> waste of money man
> after your shake when did you have a meal??
> 
> if you eat in 40-60 minutes,why to use the carbs in post?
> ...


3 hours I have another meal 
and no carbs after the shake/carb meal 
Like I said earlier , I have been doing this for a while now and its working for me!


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## nikos_ (Aug 6, 2012)

if you have a meal 3 hours after the workout you should use a milk protein rather than whey


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## Kenny Croxdale (Aug 6, 2012)

nikos_ said:


> if you have a meal 3 hours after the workout you should use a milk protein rather than whey



*Clairfication*

"Milk Protein" contains whey.  Approximately, 20% of "Milk Protein" is whey.  The other 80% is caseinate.  So, you probably mean caseinate. 

With that said, you want a quickly digested protein after you workout.  

*Whey Protein*

Whey digestion time is between 20-120 minutes dependent on the type you ingest. 

Whey is considered to be a "anabolic protein", promotes muscle growth.  

*Caseinate Protein*

Caseinate's digestion time is approximately 300 minutes.  Caseinate is a "time released protein".  That is why it is recommended as a prior to going to bed. 

Caseinate is an "anti-catabolic protein", it staves off atrophy.  

*Right Tool For The Right Job*

Research shows that the best post workout beverage is a combination of whey and caseinate combined with high glycemic carbohydrates.  This type of beverage is most effective at shuttling nutrient back to the muscle...such as reloading glycogen into the msucles.  

*Chocolate Milk* 

Research indicates that chocolate milk is a good post workout beverage.  That becasue is contains a mix of whey and caseinate along with the right ratio of carbohydrates to protein. 

*Three Hours Later*

Three hour post workout, a whey-caseinate-carbohydrate beverage works.  However, the protein ratios change.  

A greater precentage of caseinate to whey protein is recommended.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## nikos_ (Aug 6, 2012)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> Kenny Croxdale



dude
stop this useless copy-paste
i mean what i wrote,milk  protein,because casein has terrible taste


Ingestion of casein and whey proteins r... [Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI


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## rage racing (Aug 6, 2012)

I eat a bagel PWO with my shake. Then eat about 2 hrs later (no carbs)


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## flynike (Aug 6, 2012)

nikos_ said:


> if you have a meal 3 hours after the workout you should use a milk protein rather than whey




(●?̃)
/█\
.Π.


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## msumuscle (Aug 6, 2012)

Having high GI carbs in your post workout shake is beneficial and not for the reason everyone's thinking, which is "glycogen reloading".  The reason you want to spike insulin is because it actually helps to shuttles nutrients to your muscles much faster. Whey does create a spike in insulin but not as much as a high GI carb + whey shake


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## Kenny Croxdale (Aug 6, 2012)

nikos_ said:


> dude
> stop this useless copy-paste



Dude,

Nothing I posted was a cut and paste. 




nikos_ said:


> i mean what i wrote,milk  protein,because casein has terrible taste.



Dude,

Milk protein contains whey.  Thus, you remark "use a milk protein rather than whey" is a bit misleading, since 20% of the composition of milk protein is whey.



nikos_ said:


> Ingestion of casein and whey proteins r... [Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI



Is an example of cut and paste.   

The abstract states whey's higher leucine. 

Leucine has been show to increase mTOR.  mTOR increases protein synthesis.  

Rather than cutting and pasting the definition of mTOR, I'll let you look it up.

mTor is stimulated by carbohydrates, as well as high intensity training.  

Research shows that a whey protein/high glycemic index beverage enhanced with Leucine increases protein synthesis. 

Increased Protein Synthesis = More Muscle Mass 

Kenny Croxdale


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## flynike (Aug 6, 2012)

msumuscle said:


> Having high GI carbs in your post workout shake is beneficial and not for the reason everyone's thinking, which is "glycogen reloading".  The reason you want to spike insulin is because it actually helps to shuttles nutrients to your muscles much faster. Whey does create a spike in insulin but not as much as a high GI carb + whey shake


8 grams of carbs form a rice cake isn't enough for my post workout I am thinking..


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## rage racing (Aug 6, 2012)

flynike said:


> 8 grams of carbs form a rice cake isn't enough for my post workout I am thinking..



No its not. I would aim for 40gr.


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## NVRBDR (Aug 6, 2012)

I usually eat a bowl of oats or brown rice as PWO carb, but many times I eat it with filet mignon, if I don't have a shake.


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## NVRBDR (Aug 6, 2012)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> Dude,
> 
> Nothing I posted was a cut and paste.
> 
> ...




what foods are you recommending PWO for the highest protein synthesis?

thanks


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## flynike (Aug 6, 2012)

rage racing said:


> No its not. I would aim for 40gr.


I am trying to lose body fat / weight . I should prob aim for 20 at least


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## rage racing (Aug 6, 2012)

flynike said:


> I am trying to lose body fat / weight . I should prob aim for 20 at least


I am on a cut right now and I still take in 60gr carbs post WO. I am on a carb cycle and have lost 14lbs in a month. People actually say I look bigger. Dont be affraid of carbs, even when trying to loose weight. They are not the devil....


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## oufinny (Aug 6, 2012)

rage racing said:


> I am on a cut right now and I still take in 60gr carbs post WO. I am on a carb cycle and have lost 14lbs in a month. People actually say I look bigger. Dont be affraid of carbs, even when trying to loose weight. They are not the devil....



Agreed, the key is to find out when your body responds best to them. For most around a workout is a safe bet but that is not an absolute. Even on my low carb days I too have carbs post workout though the amount is far less than on high days.


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## nikos_ (Aug 7, 2012)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> Dude,
> 
> Nothing I posted was a cut and paste.
> 
> ...



dude,everything you post was copy paste
it's called milk protein or miscellar casein,20% whey 80% casein,





Kenny Croxdale said:


> Is an example of cut and paste.      (it's called research)
> 
> The abstract states whey's higher leucine.
> 
> ...





dude,protein synthesis was increased from whey and leucine,carbs have nothinng to do  with it,
glucogen  is  stored,there is no need for an average bb to restored it after a workout
it's much better to take whey in post and have a meal 40 minutes later

leucine.org is an intresting site about leucine


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## nikos_ (Aug 7, 2012)

flynike said:


> I am trying to lose body fat / weight . I should prob aim for 20 at least



girl,the gaining/loosing weight has to do with the daily intake of calories


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## Kenny Croxdale (Aug 7, 2012)

Jimmyusa said:


> what foods are you recommending PWO for the highest protein synthesis?
> 
> thanks



*Amazon.com: Nutrient Timing: The Future of Sports Nutrition (0820002149589): John Ivy, Robert Portman: Books*

This is an excellent book that is cheap and a quick easy read that goes into it.  

*Information Snap Shot*

Snap shot of information never provide you with the whole picture.  However, they give you an idea of what works. 

1) A 4:1 Carbohydraterotein Mix

2) Carbohydrates: Maltodextrin/Destrose/Fructose Blend

3) Protein: Whey/Caseinate Blend.  Preferrably more whey since it is digested quickly. 

*Chocolate Milk*

A quick easy solution that you don't have to over think is chocolate milk.  In other words, don't make yourself crazy worrying about it.

Also, milk has been shown to elicit an anabolic response. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Aug 7, 2012)

nikos_ said:


> dude,everything you post was copy paste
> it's called milk protein or miscellar casein,20% whey 80% casein,



Dude, nothing I posted was cut and paste.  

*"NO one ever got dumbber from reading." *Cosgrove

Milk Protein is NOT the same as Caseniate.  

Take the time to do some reading. 



nikos_ said:


> dude,protein synthesis was increased from whey and leucine,carbs have nothinng to do  with it,



Dude, reading means understand the words on a page.  Thus, you did NOT really read my post. You only read part of it. 

One of the keys to protein synthesis is mTOR.  Something you indicated you are clueless about.  



nikos_ said:


> glucogen  is  stored,there is no need for an average bb to restored it after a workout



Evidently, you don't understand the need or value of glycogen restoration and it role in recovery.  Again, you need to read more. 



nikos_ said:


> it's much better to take whey in post and have a meal 40 minutes later



That is an incorrect assumption. 

You a basic understanding.  You just need to build on it.  

There isn't much point in attempting to dicuss it with you any further until you have a better understanding of it. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## nikos_ (Aug 7, 2012)

ok,i buy it
show me one independence research that  shows the supperiority of the post carbs to the meal after postwo




Kenny Croxdale said:


> Evidently, you don't understand the need or value of glycogen restoration and it role in recovery.  Again, you need to read more.




there is no reason to restore glycogen right after workout of weightlifting or a weekly cardio
the consumption of GI carbs is useless 
the onlything you get is insulin spike-totaly irrelevant to protein synthesis-
and some insulin-resistance,one day,propably..


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## chesty4 (Aug 7, 2012)

msumuscle said:


> Having high GI carbs in your post workout shake is beneficial and not for the reason everyone's thinking, which is "glycogen reloading".  The reason you want to spike insulin is because it actually helps to shuttles nutrients to your muscles much faster. Whey does create a spike in insulin but not as much as a high GI carb + whey shake



When I need a few extra quick carbs PWO, I like to mix my protein powder (vanilla) with orange juice.


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## Merkaba (Aug 7, 2012)

nikos said:
			
		

> don't use carbs at post shake





Kenny Croxdale said:


> Don't follow niko's advice.
> 
> Kenny Croxdale



....


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## oufinny (Aug 8, 2012)

chesty4 said:


> When I need a few extra quick carbs PWO, I like to mix my protein powder (vanilla) with orange juice.



Cranberry is excellent in this case as well.


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## flynike (Aug 8, 2012)

Merkaba said:


> ....


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## flynike (Aug 8, 2012)

nikos_ said:


> girl,the gaining/loosing weight has to do with the daily intake of calories


SUPER! I can be having Hardee's Megaburger 1420 calories and 107 grams of fat. and I should be all set for the day


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## NaKiD EyE (Aug 9, 2012)

msumuscle said:


> Having high GI carbs in your post workout shake is beneficial and not for the reason everyone's thinking, which is "glycogen reloading".  The reason you want to spike insulin is because it actually helps to shuttles nutrients to your muscles much faster. Whey does create a spike in insulin but not as much as a high GI carb + whey shake




this ^^^


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## Bigdeak17 (Aug 9, 2012)

I have 30g carbs pre and 50g carbs post and besides trace carbs, that is it since i am on a cut, and have cut up nicely...


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## theCaptn' (Aug 9, 2012)

Kenny is king!


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## nikos_ (Aug 9, 2012)

flynike said:


> SUPER! I can be having Hardee's Megaburger 1420 calories and 107 grams of fat. and I should be all set for the day



why you want to do that?


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## theCaptn' (Aug 9, 2012)

Ronald McDonald is his nutritionist


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## LAM (Aug 13, 2012)

nikos_ said:


> don't use carbs at post shake



your advice goes against all research in PWO supplementation proven in performance test labs over the past 20+ years by guys like Wolfe and Lemon at the U of Texas.  a 1:4 ratio of protein to carbs is the tested and current optimum recommendation.


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## nikos_ (Aug 13, 2012)

LAM said:


> your advice goes against all research in PWO supplementation proven in performance test labs over the past 20+ years by guys like Wolfe and Lemon at the U of Texas.  a 1:4 ratio of protein to carbs is the tested and current optimum recommendation.



my regards to the suplement industry,which sells sugar promising you gain muscles 

post a link
the body doesn't recover 40 minutes after workout,it needs 24 hours at least


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## AugustWest (Aug 13, 2012)

nikos_ said:


> my regards to the suplement industry,which sells sugar promising you gain muscles
> 
> post a link
> the body doesn't recover 40 minutes after workout,it needs 24 hours at least




no ones saying muscles FULLY repair within 40min of WO regardless of how many cals/ macro nutrients you take in. the limiting factor is time.

BUT it is proven science that fueling your muscles with glycogen and protein WHILE still in an anabolic state jumpstarts protein synthesis at THE most oppurtune time. 

Using a high GI carb and fast digesting protein in my PWO shake has greatly reduced soreness and also greatly improved muscle retention while on a cut.

Also you dont HAVE to use a sugar from the supp industry such as dextrose or waxy maize or whatever. A simple large banana would still do the same thing.


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## nikos_ (Aug 13, 2012)

AugustWest said:


> BUT *it is proven *science that fueling your muscles with glycogen and protein WHILE still in an anabolic state jumpstarts protein synthesis at THE most oppurtune time.




no,it's not
are you saying that the glucogen is ran out after a workout and it's not stored??

also,you saying that the whey and the banana would leave stomach at the same time???


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## nikos_ (Aug 13, 2012)

lol,i didn't notice it at fisrt



AugustWest said:


> WHILE still in an *anabolic *state jumpstarts protein synthesis at THE most oppurtune time.




would you mind to explain this a little bit?


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