# Chest. Closing the gap!?!



## Rissole (Apr 16, 2002)

I've been workin out since Jan and have 'always' wanted to close the gap in my chest especially the bit at the bottom, Yes between the nips (see attach pic taken about 3 weeks ago). Question: Will this gap close in time and mass? Is there a way to specifically target that spot? eg; decline press or flys. 
Thanks for your time guys.


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## Eggs (Apr 16, 2002)

Asa you gain more muscle mass in the chest area you should notice more muscle in the area.  Not because muscle is specifically growing over the sternum, but because all that muscle has to go somewhere.  Takes a while though.

Eggs


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## Robboe (Apr 16, 2002)

There's no way to change the shape of a muscle, but as the muscle grows larger it will become less noticable - to an extent. You'll always notice it, but it just won;t be as apparent when the muscle is bigger.


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## Eggs (Apr 16, 2002)

Its like this...

Put a 1/2lb steak on your plate... looks kind of small.

Now put a kilo of steak on your plate.  Fills up a bit more space doesnt it?  The plate is like your chest, the meat is the muscle over it.

Everybody always says genetics, and its true to a degree.  But I've seen some whacky looking guys devote time to lifting and come away with great bodies.

Eggs


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## Robboe (Apr 16, 2002)

That was _the_ worst analogy i've ever seen 

Shape is determined by insertion points and where the muscle joins to the tendon. Only way to change that is via surgery.


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## Eggs (Apr 16, 2002)

Yeah, I was thinking how bad it sucked when I was writing it  Oh well, I'm not paid for this (thank god).

Yeah, but theres more to the way a muscle looks than where muscle joins the tendon.  Mass goes a long ways.  It may not get you to the Olympia... oh wait, never mind.

Eggs


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## Robboe (Apr 16, 2002)

"Yeah, but theres more to the way a muscle looks than where muscle joins the tendon."


What do you mean by this?


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## gopro (Apr 16, 2002)

You cannot change the origin and insertion points of a muscle, but you can work to make it less noticable by building mass in that area. 

In order to do this I recommend the following superset in each of your chest workouts...

-decline CABLE flyes/medium grip decline press

or...

-decline CABLE flyes/decline dumbell press

Concentrate and squeeze hard during the contraction.


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## Eggs (Apr 16, 2002)

Thats what I mean TCD.


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## Robboe (Apr 16, 2002)

I see.

*cough* bullshit *cough*


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## Arnold (Apr 16, 2002)

Honestly, you will never really change the way your chest looks.

If you get your pec bigger they might appear to be closer, but they will always be shaped that way, and have a gap.

btw, it looks fine, other than the monkey hair!


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## Rissole (Apr 16, 2002)

Hey punce, i mean prince (lol) i like my monkey hair!!
And why is your avatar of a monkey anyway??? Ay AYYY AAAAYYYYYY ???? 
Thanks heaps boys!! 
Do you guys think that decline sets are important (rate from one to ten) im doing flat bed bench, incline (sorry bout the touchy subject) and flat bed flys.


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## Scotty the Body (Apr 16, 2002)

Its been said that decline are the best exercise for chest development, it being the natural movement of the pec muscle's. 

Incline I would have to say is the worst because of to much shoulder involvment. 

I think that its important to use all 3 though for a full chest workout.


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## Robboe (Apr 16, 2002)

Scotty, had it not been for that last sentence i would have kissed you


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## Scotty the Body (Apr 16, 2002)

LOL, sorry TCD Would it help if I said I HATE inclines?!?


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## Robboe (Apr 16, 2002)

No, cause you don't mean it.


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## Scotty the Body (Apr 16, 2002)

Honest!!! where's my kiss???


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## Robboe (Apr 16, 2002)

Even if i did kiss you, you'd be thinking of inclines the whole time...


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## Scotty the Body (Apr 16, 2002)




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## Arnold (Apr 16, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by peetrips *_
> Hey punce, i mean prince (lol) i like my monkey hair!!
> And why is your avatar of a monkey anyway??? Ay AYYY AAAAYYYYYY ????
> Thanks heaps boys!!
> Do you guys think that decline sets are important (rate from one to ten) im doing flat bed bench, incline (sorry bout the touchy subject) and flat bed flys.



Well, from a bodybuilding standpoint hair does not exactly accentuate muscle.


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## gopro (Apr 17, 2002)

If I could do only 1 chest exercise for life, it would be low incline presses on a smith...my chest is my best bodypart, and it has been built primarily through incline movements. I am not sure if I have ever done a decline press in my life...well, maybe once, but I dropped them fast.

But anyway, if you want to help that lower inner pec area, do the routine I listed above.

And by the way...when TCD starts kissing other men, I'm outta here!


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## Robboe (Apr 17, 2002)

Don't worry man, you're the last man i'd ever consider kissing


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## gopro (Apr 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Don't worry man, you're the last man i'd ever consider kissing



Thank God for small favors!


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## cornfed (Apr 17, 2002)

ditto to gopro,
due to the nature of the fiber direction in the pecs, the only real solution (if any) is to hit the upper chest, as the developement there will cause an overlapping effect, "filling in" the gap.  Though this is my suggestion, quite a few guys w/ awesome chest developement have never filled that gap completely.  Good luck

Peace


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## Scotty the Body (Apr 17, 2002)

Declines and dips are the best.


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## Robboe (Apr 17, 2002)

Cornfed, what on earth are you on about?

And Scotty, you missed your opportunity...


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## cornfed (Apr 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Cornfed, what on earth are you on about?



Huh?  Uhhhh... I may have been half asleep and misread earlier posts.   I hope... either that or I had a serious brain fart.  I...errr... awww screw it.  Maybe I am losing it.  

let me rephrase...

Upper/mid pec developement will eventually translate down, filling in the gaps in the lower/inner chest.  I did not mean to imply that decline is useless, cause I love it and use it.  My point is that due to the angle of the fibers, the idea that decline is the key to fill in that space is bunk.  You cannot isolate the inner chest at any point IMHO. It's merely a question of total mass and genetics (which can be overcome to an extent and trust me, I'm a victim of the same low/inner pec void).  To best "fill that in", it is necessary to build the pecs w/ emphasis on the upper/mid area, whose mass is eventually forced down, creating a roll-over effect.  That's my belief on the issue, as unorthodox as some may view it to be.  That's JMO.

Peace


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## Scotty the Body (Apr 17, 2002)

What??? you lost me when you started taking inner outter??? 
LOL,  just kidding!


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## cornfed (Apr 17, 2002)

I hope I haven't made an even bigger ass of myself than normal.  I have to fill a quota of assinine comments/day, but I try not to exceed it by too much. LOL  

Peace


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## gopro (Apr 17, 2002)

I will continue to preach that you can affect fibers in certain portions of muscles, and over time achieve a more balanced look. No matter what TCD says, lol. I have done it, have seen it done, and will continue to do so....ALL WITHIN REASON and within genetic parameters.


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## Robboe (Apr 17, 2002)

Yeah you can effect fibres in certain portions of muscles...but you'll also effect the ones around it to


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## ActionMatt (Apr 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> No matter what TCD says, lol. I have done it, have seen it done, and will continue to do so....ALL WITHIN REASON and within genetic parameters.



How do you *know* this is what happened? Unless you took muscle biopsies at regular intervals, you haven't "seen" it happen. You've seen what you *thought* was that happening, but you don't have conclusive evidence one way or another, no matter how many people you've observed or how many years you've been training.


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## cornfed (Apr 17, 2002)

This'll always be debated, so I say lets just agree to disagree b4 this turns into a 50page crapfest.  I can't argue w/ personal experiences and I'll hold to mine.

Peace


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## Robboe (Apr 17, 2002)

Dude, the whole "experience" thing should be your last resort. You've just give up before we've even got started!


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## cornfed (Apr 17, 2002)

Eh, just tryin' to be a mediator and the nice, sweet, caring individual you all know me as.  The benevolent...errr...uhhh...  TZZZZZTTTTT!!!!    BTW lightning hurts.  LOL
TCD, I hate to admit it but yes, I agree w/ your side of things.    And I never gave up, it was a preemptive strike, bud. 

Peace


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## Mule (Apr 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by ActionMatt *_
> 
> 
> How do you *know* this is what happened? Unless you took muscle biopsies at regular intervals, you haven't "seen" it happen. You've seen what you *thought* was that happening, but you don't have conclusive evidence one way or another, no matter how many people you've observed or how many years you've been training.




Is this what I think it is?


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## Eggs (Apr 17, 2002)

I love it when people post a message criticizing someone elses ideas but dont actually have any of there own.

And yeah, you should post research studies!  Like those important ones done by MuscleTech and EAS!  "Oh, I know, use Creatine, that will make it all better!"

Gimme a break, if not from experience then what the hell are we here blathering about.  This community was founded so people could share their personal experience in hopes of helping others.  Everyone here thats a scientist please raise your hand!  AM, your a scientist?  So you've been able to back up all the advice that you've given out?  Oh, you only criticize others and are not capable of producing anything worthwhile?

You're a tard dude.

I still stand by my statement that increasing chest mass will help make poor chest genetics (atleast in the sternum region) less noticeable.

Eggs


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## Rissole (Apr 18, 2002)

Righto boys let's put some rubber on the road!! I wanna see pics of all ur chest's and a bit about what ur chest routine is !!
By the way some interesting comments. It is good to hear the different variations and beliefs keep up the good work  
So that's it! Lets have a chest off "all in!!!"


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## gopro (Apr 18, 2002)

Yes, TCD, you WILL affect all of the muscle fibers in the target muscle...however, you can effect portions in certain areas of a muscle MORE than others by utilizing different angles of pull. Soreness that is incurred in the inner portion of the pecs by doing cable crossovers, or in the outer portion of the pecs...near the delt tie in, by doing wide dumbell flyes IS NOT AN ACCIDENT! 

Action Matt...I have just enough respect for you to comepletely ignore you from now on.


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## ActionMatt (Apr 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Eggs *_
> I love it when people post a message criticizing someone elses ideas but dont actually have any of there own.
> 
> And yeah, you should post research studies!  Like those important ones done by MuscleTech and EAS!  "Oh, I know, use Creatine, that will make it all better!"
> ...




I've got my own ideas. I've got my scientific source and I also have my practical ones, my personal experience being one of those.

You want studies? I've got more of those than I think you can handle. Using one particular set of flawed studies from a marketing firm to condemn all science is idiotic.

I'm not a scientist. I'm a lifter that likes to know what goes on in his body. That, I hate to tell you, involves science. I criticize others on points that, from what I have learned, are incorrect or misapplied. I've also produced a bit more "worthwhile" in the training arena than you obviously realize.

I may be a tard, but look who's the jackass starting sh*t with only half the story.


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## gopro (Apr 18, 2002)

EGGS vs ACTION MATT...a new rivalry has begun!


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## Eggs (Apr 18, 2002)

Umm, you just said that personal experience didnt count... and that only scientific studies should be used when we try to give advice and help eachother out.

Unless of course we conducted muscle biopsies.

So, my rant was based on the fact that you completely tried to throw personal experience out because we couldnt prove that it was fact.  Sure backing up what you say with studies are good, but unless you have a hand in the study and see the results first hand who are you to pass it off as proof?  You have no proof that study even actually took place outside of some dudes dorm room.  Yeah, thats a bit much... but certainly dont slam somebody for offering advice which you consider bad when not only did you not provide evidence that he was incorrect but you also didnt even address the topic at hand.

"I'm not a scientist. I'm a lifter that likes to know what goes on in his body. That, I hate to tell you, involves science. I criticize others on points that, from what I have learned, are incorrect or misapplied. I've also produced a bit more "worthwhile" in the training arena than you obviously realize."

Super, good on you.  So what GoPro has done with his body doesnt "involve science."  Only when you practice it on your body does it "involve science?"  Nice one there...

"Using one particular set of flawed studies from a marketing firm to condemn all science is idiotic."

I wasnt condeming the science of BB, I was condeming the fact that you were saying that all his experience count for nothing.  The jibe about MuscleTech and stuff was a childish taunt, so there  

So while I may be a jackass, I had the whole story... and it was a load of BS.  Dont let your personal feelings about a person ruin the chance you have of positively affecting others in this sport who have questions.  If you do, all that training and experience you have really means nothing to us.

Eggs

In competition to become the biggest Jackass!


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## Robboe (Apr 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Eggs *_
> *I love it when people post a message criticizing someone elses ideas but dont actually have any of there own.*
> 
> Point 1: Do you actually pay attention to this board?
> ...



*"Yes, TCD, you WILL affect all of the muscle fibers in the target muscle...however, you can effect portions in certain areas of a muscle MORE than others by utilizing different angles of pull."*

But that won't cause localised growth. And even if, over time, it did, the results would be insignificant.


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## Eggs (Apr 18, 2002)

TCD, that wasnt meant for you  

Ah, okay... I was under the impression that the goal was to minimize the obviousness of poor muscle - tendon interaction.

I see where you guys are coming from the gap point, we were looking at this in a different way, my bad.

Eggs


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## Robboe (Apr 18, 2002)

Oh shit, sorry man 

I just try to start arguements with everyone. I'm a bastard like that 

No doubt we'll keep arguing about the chest portions with Gopro though...


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## gopro (Apr 18, 2002)

True that...I have alot to get off my chest being that it is pretty f*ckin huge....


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## Arnold (Apr 18, 2002)

I do not understand why this argument seems to surface so often. It's obvious that some people will continue to believe that you can target the upper chest, and there are others that believe that you cannot.

Everyone that disagrees, needs to agree to disagree on this.


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## Robboe (Apr 18, 2002)

Gopro, with 20 years of training that really doesn't suprise me.

Prince, upper chest arguements are the best reason to frequent BBing boards!


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## Mule (Apr 18, 2002)

I think Action Matt has a fetish with Gopro.. It gives him wood when he gets his book out and copies and paste something to try to prove Gopro wrong. You know... like when girls tell guys they hate them then go home and cry because they dont really hate them but just love them to death.


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## Arnold (Apr 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Prince, upper chest arguements are the best reason to frequent BBing boards!



LMAO! 


¡Usted necesita ayuda seria mi amigo!


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## ActionMatt (Apr 18, 2002)

*takes a crowbar to Mule*

Eggs, I don't knock personal experience. Refer to Chig's point #3-- I have a problem when people try to pass off a very subjective opinion as fact. 

The whole point I was making is that you can observe a given effect, ie, upper chest growth, but without concrete explanations for what is happening behind that effect, which could be any one of  multiple causes, you can't state it as "fact."

Observing apparent upper chest growth is one thing. Knowing that it is in fact the "upper" chest is a totally different thing.

I have nothing personal against gopro. I argue with his theories, but on a personal level I have no reason to hate him more than I hate everybody else.


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## Robboe (Apr 18, 2002)

Y usted es gordo y feo..


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## Arnold (Apr 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Y usted es gordo y feo..



Cómo usted me conocería es feo? Usted sabe ya que no soy gordo porque fijé un cuadro! Veamos el tuyo.


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## Robboe (Apr 18, 2002)

Puedo decir usted es feo de la manera que usted escribe. ¿Y cómo sé yo que esa foto es de usted? Encárelo, usted huele.


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## Arnold (Apr 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Puedo decir usted es feo de la manera que usted escribe. ¿Y cómo sé yo que esa foto es de usted? Encárelo, usted huele.




si fuera a fijar los cuadros que no son mina, I no los fijaría bien alguien más grande y más magro?


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## Robboe (Apr 18, 2002)

Soy sólo joking con usted. HAGO beleieve que ellos son usted, pero creo también que usted perdió lejos la cabeza porque usted es feo. haha...


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## Scotty the Body (Apr 18, 2002)

Vous des types sucez!!  Le déclin sont le meilleur!!


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## Arnold (Apr 18, 2002)

La autorización, pero yo realmente muy bueno está mirando yo apenas no desea ninguna " fama Internet ".


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## Arnold (Apr 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Scotty the Body *_
> Vous des types sucez!!  Le déclin sont le meilleur!!



You dork, we are not talking in French!


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## Scotty the Body (Apr 18, 2002)

Sie preffer Deutscher?


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## cornfed (Apr 18, 2002)

Aye ching... errr... screw it.  11yrs of Spanish were wasted on my arse   .   ....Hey baby que paso....I thought I was your only vato...     
...Eres tu... Eres tu...
......No tengo dinero...no tengo...  crap!  Didn't I say it'd get ugly?  Geez...the things that happen when I sing Tejano    
Between site 'jects, localized growth, carb ratios and religious beliefs  BB boards are more volitile than the middle east.


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## gopro (Apr 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Y usted es gordo y feo..



Love the foreign language stuff...

By the way TCD, I have not been training for 20 years, but about 16...

Middle pecs, outer pecs, inner pecs, upper pecs! Love it all!


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## ActionMatt (Apr 19, 2002)

!Soy un burro!


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## Robboe (Apr 19, 2002)

Usted es un homosexual más como.


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## Arnold (Apr 19, 2002)

this thread has gone way off topic....closing it now.


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