# Is igf-1 DES much better then igf1-LR3?



## Ellien (Apr 1, 2012)

Does one put more size on then the other?How about for pumps and fat burning effects?Iv seen where some do 80 mcgs pre workout is this true?


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## TwisT (Apr 1, 2012)

Is an apple better then a pear?


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## aminoman74 (Apr 2, 2012)

Lr3 is alot better then DES as lr3 is systematic for 20-30 hours as des is active for 10 minutes.


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## Pittsburgh63 (Apr 2, 2012)

Like Twist said..there two different animals


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## ScottyMac710 (Apr 2, 2012)

TwisT said:


> Is an apple better then a pear?



TwisT nailed it - the difference in half life and structure makes for pretty big differences in results. In my experience, LR3 was better at keeping me lean while maintaining size due probably to the long-lasting nutrient shuttling actions of IGF1-LR3. Des, on the other hand was much more effective for site enhancement (still not an extreme change, but noticeable growth in muscles that were pinned), and gave me a more pronounced fullness than LR3. So to compare the two and try to find one that is "better" you need to have specific goals in mind


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## aminoman74 (Apr 4, 2012)

I never seen much with DES.other then for muscle pumps.Other then that I would use lr3 hands down.


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## 137Boulder (Apr 22, 2012)

Hey guys, my first post, although I've been researching various things on the forums before. Question about igf1 lr3, i read dat's forums , I'm taking ghrp2,cjc 1294 without dac and I have igf1 lr3. Goals are to build muscle, lose fat. I normally train an hour after I wake up. So, I was thinking pin with igf1 lr3 as soon as i wake up, train, take ghrp2 post workout with protein shake and high glycemic carbs. Then when I go to bed just take ghrp2 and cjc 1295 without dac. I would take 40- 50 mcg of igf1 lr3 into the muscle, split up the pinning(pin cushion I will be). Any suggestions would be appreciated from you guys. Thanks!


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## 137Boulder (Apr 22, 2012)

I meant cjc 1295! sory :/


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## 137Boulder (Apr 22, 2012)

Oh, and I was gonna take the igf1 lr3 for 4 weeks, but how long of a break do I need to take before going back on. From my understanding, it stops working after that time. And, how many hours away from the ghrp's do you have to keep them separated for efficient results?


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## emitecaps (Apr 23, 2012)

GHRP2 should be taken with cjc postworkout and avoid carbs for 30mins. IGF lr3 preworkout as stated is fine. And most cycle it 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off.


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## Pittsburgh63 (Apr 23, 2012)

137Boulder said:


> Oh, and I was gonna take the igf1 lr3 for 4 weeks, but how long of a break do I need to take before going back on. From my understanding, it stops working after that time. And, how many hours away from the ghrp's do you have to keep them separated for efficient results?



I would workout.. then wait 15-20 minutes to let your natty MGF levels peak.  Then administer your GHRP/GHRH combo and wait another 15-20 minutes.  Then administer your IGF lr3.

4-5 on with equal time off is pretty standard for the IGF.


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## aminoman74 (Apr 23, 2012)

137Boulder said:


> Oh, and I was gonna take the igf1 lr3 for 4 weeks, but how long of a break do I need to take before going back on. From my understanding, it stops working after that time. And, how many hours away from the ghrp's do you have to keep them separated for efficient results?



Wait 15 minutes in between each one


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## aminoman74 (Apr 23, 2012)

emitecaps said:


> GHRP2 should be taken with cjc postworkout and avoid carbs for 30mins. IGF lr3 preworkout as stated is fine. And most cycle it 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off.



If you take lr3 pre workout it will cancle mgf out .Wait 10 minutes in between each


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## teezhay (Apr 24, 2012)

How are you Lr3 users administering it? Subq or IM?


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## Pittsburgh63 (Apr 24, 2012)

teezhay said:


> How are you Lr3 users administering it? Subq or IM?



Subq for this guy.


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## Vibrant (Apr 24, 2012)

Use both des and lr3 for best results.


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## 137Boulder (Apr 24, 2012)

Okay, Pittsburgh 63, so to clarify, you say workout, then wait 15 minutes roughly when the weight training is complete, take the ghrp's at this time, then wait another 15 minutes and take the igf1lr3. So, I will assume that carbs would be fine roughly 15 minutes after the igf1 lr3(in other words, 30 minutes roughly after the ghrp's are administered)? I plan on takin high glycemic carbs combined with my fast acting protein shake post workout also. I forgot to mention i'm using test enanthate and some deca, so I'm sure the results will be somewhat multiplied. Also, I am pinning bi laterally, however I'm not doing multiple pinning, I will just rotate the areas where I pin on the muscle.. Thanks AminoMan also for your suggestions. There's so much info on this site, it's overwhelming. Also, I do notice that the igf 1 makes me a little bit unusually hungry. Different then ghrp 6, but it's noticeable. Do any of you guys read datbtrue's posts? He's got a lot of interesting info, although a lot of it is a little over my head.


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## Pittsburgh63 (Apr 24, 2012)

Looks like you got it down my friend.  AAS will definitely work synergistically with the peps.


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## 137Boulder (Apr 25, 2012)

Thanks, Pittsburgh63! I appreciate it


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## Pittsburgh63 (Apr 25, 2012)

137Boulder said:


> Thanks, Pittsburgh63! I appreciate it



Anytime brother!!  Feel free to PM if you ever have any other questions.


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## aminoman74 (Apr 25, 2012)

137Boulder said:


> Okay, Pittsburgh 63, so to clarify, you say workout, then wait 15 minutes roughly when the weight training is complete, take the ghrp's at this time, then wait another 15 minutes and take the igf1lr3. So, I will assume that carbs would be fine roughly 15 minutes after the igf 1 lr3(in other words, 30 minutes roughly after the ghrp's are administered)? I plan on taking high glycemic carbs combined with my fast acting protein shake post workout also. I forgot to mention i'm using test enanthate and some deca, so I'm sure the results will be somewhat multiplied. Also, I am pinning bi laterally, however I'm not doing multiple pinning, I will just rotate the areas where I pin on the muscle.. Thanks AminoMan also for your suggestions. There's so much info on this site, it's overwhelming. Also, I do notice that the igf 1 makes me a little bit unusually hungry. Different then ghrp 6, but it's noticeable. Do any of you guys read datbtrue posts? He's got a lot of interesting info, although a lot of it is a little over my head.



Don't wait much longer then 30-45 minutes to eat as this is the prime time to get your micro nutrition's in its the window that you will want food the most.Your body is starving for food to help heal and repair.


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## fredlabrute (May 1, 2012)

Do agree with everything aminoman said about IGF-1, did try both at much better results with the lr3 version,and longer active life means less pinning!!!


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## LightBearer (May 1, 2012)

Lr3 may be better bang for buck but do you really want igf floating around for 30hrs attaching to ur intestines and pre cancer cells? Id rather des im if anything 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## 137Boulder (May 2, 2012)

Thanks for your help everybody! I've been taking the igf1 lr3 4 to 5 hours before bedtime, then at bedtime take ghrp2(I ran out of the cjc1295). And then when I wake up in the afternoon(note that I work midnight shift and rotate shifts etc..), I take my hgh 2 iu's for now(I just got some elitropin- never took hgh before-gonna do at least 6 months of it with aas and my igf1lr3). Anyways, I already notice a difference in recovery and my sleep is better. I have been getting stronger every workout- Not bad considering I have a sinus infection I have been fighting for over 2 weeks and I've been on antibiotics too.. Man, I need to start up a log on this. All I can say is that I'm pretty excited about this! It's gonna be strictly AAS,Igf1lr3, and Hgh and will add a little bit of insulin to the mix postworkout very soon. Everyone on here has been really helpful and I've just been reading a lot of the threads and I feel like I have a good grasp on this. This site is awesome!


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## Pittsburgh63 (May 2, 2012)

You have to be very precise with your LR3 administration brother.. due to the long half life.. It will effect other pep administration in an adverse way if not done in the proper order.  That being said.. the lr3 before you GHRP/GHRH combo is not ideal.


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## TwisT (May 2, 2012)

Hey, at least someone listens to me 

+1



LightBearer said:


> Lr3 may be better bang for buck but do you really want igf floating around for 30hrs attaching to ur intestines and pre cancer cells? Id rather des im if anything
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## aminoman74 (May 2, 2012)

Take the lr3 last when using more then 1 peptide postworkout so everything will be smooth sailing.More so when using mgf post then shoot the combo then lr3.


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## 137Boulder (May 3, 2012)

I would workout.. then wait 15-20 minutes to let your natty MGF levels peak. Then administer your GHRP/GHRH combo and wait another 15-20 minutes. Then administer your IGF lr3.

Hey, Pittsburgh63, I'll do it your way this time...but maybe I need a little bit more clarification on postworkout. Is it fine to take hgh about 45 minutes preworkout on empty stomach(no carbs, only aminos or whey protein), train, and then 30 minutes before completing workout(take ghrp2 or ghrp6 or whatever gh peptide), then you say: wait another 15 to 20 minutes to take the igf1lr3. Now, my question is with this strategy, when is the optimum time to take the carbs/protein combo. Note that as soon as I pick up some regular insulin I will add it to the mix for postworkout/near the end of workout.. What do you guys think? I'm new to the peptide/hgh. I have taken insulin before, just postworkout..


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## Pittsburgh63 (May 3, 2012)

137Boulder said:


> I would workout.. then wait 15-20 minutes to let your natty MGF levels peak. Then administer your GHRP/GHRH combo and wait another 15-20 minutes. Then administer your IGF lr3.
> 
> Hey, Pittsburgh63, I'll do it your way this time...but maybe I need a little bit more clarification on postworkout. Is it fine to take hgh about 45 minutes preworkout on empty stomach(no carbs, only aminos or whey protein), train, and then 30 minutes before completing workout(take ghrp2 or ghrp6 or whatever gh peptide), then you say: wait another 15 to 20 minutes to take the igf1lr3. Now, my question is with this strategy, when is the optimum time to take the carbs/protein combo. Note that as soon as I pick up some regular insulin I will add it to the mix for postworkout/near the end of workout.. What do you guys think? I'm new to the peptide/hgh. I have taken insulin before, just postworkout..




I recommend everything be administered Post workout.. not pre or prior to finishing workout.  Once you complete your workout.. your body is going to release MGF locally in the stressed muscles.  This is the first stage/signal for repair.  Wait 15-20 minutes post workout to allow MGF to peak, then administer your HGH.  Give that 15-20 minutes, then administer your GHRP/GHRH combo, wait another 15-20 min and administer your LR3.   Again.. give it 15 minutes then I would take your post workout shake.


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## Pittsburgh63 (May 3, 2012)

Once you get the insulin.. I would administer pre workout.. and again post workout.  From there you can taper up your dose and if you like.. add an additional administration later on post workout.


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## aminoman74 (May 3, 2012)

I do it this way as pitts does but i wait 10 minutes to after shooting mgf shince mgf life is 10 minutes then shoot ipam/cjc wait 20 minutes then shoot lr3 then eat.I also do slin pre workout.Do not do lr3 pre as it will blunt mgf release as pitt put it.lr3 life is 20-30 hours.


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## heckler7 (May 3, 2012)

LightBearer said:


> Lr3 may be better bang for buck but do you really want igf floating around for 30hrs attaching to ur intestines and pre cancer cells? Id rather des im if anything
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


So this wont happen with DES? or is it just faster acting?


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## Pittsburgh63 (May 3, 2012)

heckler7 said:


> So this wont happen with DES? or is it just faster acting?



It's half life is about 10 minutes.. so it remains localized in it's effects.  It's also much stronger than LR3 as well.


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## heckler7 (May 4, 2012)

Des is cheaper and stronger, that seems like the way to go.


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## Pittsburgh63 (May 4, 2012)

heckler7 said:


> Des is cheaper and stronger, that seems like the way to go.



The draw back is you have to use more of it.. so it's not really cheaper.  You have to split the doses bilaterally and inject in to each muscle that you worked that day.


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## heckler7 (May 4, 2012)

Pittsburgh63 said:


> The draw back is you have to use more of it.. so it's not really cheaper. You have to split the doses bilaterally and inject in to each muscle that you worked that day.


ouch, and lr3 is subq right?


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## Pittsburgh63 (May 4, 2012)

heckler7 said:


> ouch, and lr3 is subq right?



IM has a slightly higher bioavailability and absorbtion rate.. but subq is perfectly fine.  I inject it subq.


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## heckler7 (May 4, 2012)

ok, I think I just confused myself,  MGF is a type of IGF and is stronger than IGF?


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## heckler7 (May 4, 2012)

Dr. McDougall and Insulin-like Growth Factor 1 - YouTube


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## Pittsburgh63 (May 4, 2012)

heckler7 said:


> ok, I think I just confused myself,  MGF is a type of IGF and is stronger than IGF?



MGF is a variant of IGF that is produced locally in stressed muscles rather than in the liver.  It works a little differently from IGF though.  MGF is a proliferator (make new cells) and IGF is a differentiator (essentially assigns the cells as Muscle cells).   They work together to create growth.. and each process has to be timed properly to get maximum results.


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## blergs. (May 15, 2012)

Pittsburgh63 said:


> It's half life is about 10 minutes.. so it remains localized in it's effects.  It's also much stronger than LR3 as well.



Thats very intrue.
lr3 or des both go systemic. local growth would be the same for des or lr3. the only diffrence is once it goes systemic (5-15min for both) the Des is cleaned out very fast where as lr3 is not.


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## Pittsburgh63 (May 15, 2012)

blergs. said:


> Thats very intrue.
> lr3 or des both go systemic. local growth would be the same for des or lr3. the only diffrence is once it goes systemic (5-15min for both) the Des is cleaned out very fast where as lr3 is not.




In 10 minutes it's not going to become very "systemic"  sure it will travel a bit, but the mass majority of the cell differentiating is going to be contained to the injection site.


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## wiseone (Jul 27, 2013)

I've got a question.
Whats the best way to take IGF-1LR3 and PEG MGF on off days.
Do u take one first and then wait 20 minutes or does it not matter.
I had heard to take IGF-1LR3 in the morning before breakfast but then when would one take the PEG MGF?

Thanks for any help,


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## Pittsburgh63 (Jul 27, 2013)

wiseone said:


> I've got a question.
> Whats the best way to take IGF-1LR3 and PEG MGF on off days.
> Do u take one first and then wait 20 minutes or does it not matter.
> I had heard to take IGF-1LR3 in the morning before breakfast but then when would one take the PEG MGF?
> ...



I would stick to using the Peg mgf alone on off days and lr3 post workout.  These two peps are not compatable to use at the same time.  The presence the other will disrupt their function.


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## wiseone (Jul 27, 2013)

Thanks Pittsburgh, I'll give that a try.


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## PumpSkunk (Aug 24, 2013)

So in short DES is 1000% more anabolic than LR3. The first reply should have been "how do you plan to run it?"

LR3 is a good starter pep and you should us it and a glucose meter together. The igf family of hormones are very different from the sex hormones. I am sure everyone here knows that the 'I' in igf = insulin. LR3 has a 28 to 30 hour half life if you are a diabetic and you run LR3 your body will require less exo-insulin as LR3 will make you more sensitive to insulin. 

The LR3 part of the pep was man made to extend the life of igf1 in the lab. That being said DES is not modified and therefore quickly broken down in the body hence the 10 to 20 min half life. Now if you are a hard core iFBB bodybuilding bad ass or a VERY careful experienced bodybuilder you know the ins and outs of slin use and how not to kill your self or possibly. You would stack slin with DES on a site specific bases or LR3 and less slin for over all growth or PCT maintenance. 

Peps are an investment over time AAS will provide quite results, AAS stack with slin and igf is life changing. 

Be safe out there and read read read!


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