# One+ and ball shrinkage



## icanrace (Jun 12, 2003)

I have noticed some ball shrinkage in the first week and a half of this cycle. I know that this is a side effect, but it has me concerned a bit. Is this normal this early in a cycle and should I continue?


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## Arnold (Jun 12, 2003)

how much are you using?

this is just by feel? you sure it's not mental?


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## icanrace (Jun 12, 2003)

6 squirts 2x a day. I don't think its mental. They look and feel smaller, but I guess I really didn't have big nuts before the cycle.


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## ZECH (Jun 12, 2003)

LMAO!! It depends on the person sometime! Usually I don't notice it that soon! Usually for me it around 4 weeks or so! But it's possible.


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## icanrace (Jun 12, 2003)

Should I stop or should I keep going? What would you do? How small (seriously) can they get?


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## ZECH (Jun 12, 2003)

On real steriods they can get almost like raisins I hear!! But with PH's not as strong, I doubt it will get that bad! But it is important to have a good post cycle regiment lined up!


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## icanrace (Jun 12, 2003)

I should of had something on hand already, but I didn't. I just ordered some 6oxo though. It  should be here Monday or Tuesday. Would you keep going if you were me? I know this sounds like a gay post, but Im concerned. I knew this could happen before the cycle and wasn't to concerned, but now that it is happening, I don't know what to do.


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## aceman (Jun 12, 2003)

what are you using?


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## icanrace (Jun 12, 2003)

One+ for the cycle
6oxo post cycle


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## Mudge (Jun 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> LMAO!! It depends on the person sometime! Usually I don't notice it that soon! Usually for me it around 4 weeks or so! But it's possible.



I'd say thats pretty fast too. I have talked to HRT people who say they notice no difference. I have also talked to people who have tried heavy stuff like Deca, one such person whose left testicle is now "a grape" and is permanently atrophied.

On the legal stuff though, and with a mild cycle, I would not be worried. Take more time off between if you like, nothing wrong with that.


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## icanrace (Jun 12, 2003)

Here is my complete story, but I think it was way to much of a break in between......

I took One+ for 2 weeks and quit because of temper issues. Well, about another 3 or 4 weeks went by without it and I decided to start it back up again. This time it seems as if after 1 week I am noticing some ball shrinkage. I know this is a side effect, but so soon? I didn't notice anything the first time. What would you recommend me doing? Should I stop it or should I continue? What would you do? Please help me. Thanks
This is a copy of the email I sent Mike @ 1fast.


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## ZECH (Jun 12, 2003)

One good word of advice and I know Mudge will agree. Before starting any cycle, be sure to have whatever you think you may need for off cycle. Just talking PH's, if your taking 4/ad,19 nor.....you will need some type of anti-e like 6 oxo. You can get into clomid if you want. I would also have some type of tribulis product like Fuzu or Tribex. ZMA and flax oil are also good. I think you will be fine!


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## Mudge (Jun 12, 2003)

I can't recall a hint of temper issues with 1-Test when I tried it. I would suggest next time trying a different brand. Did Mike offer any comments on that? I haven't seen or heard anything thats convinced me that anything can affect temper issues, unless something were abused and hormones were very out of whack or very heavy androgen, which would not seem to be the case after only 2 weeks.

Yes the rule is to have everything for a complete cycle in hand - shipping delays or who knows what, could cause an unhappy post cycle. DG, how long are you folks waiting post cycle before starting your post cycle therapy, immediately or two weeks or ? I am unaware of what the half life would be for a 1-Test etc type product, I imagine its short as most orals are.

One thing I'll ad, is if the half life of your product is long enough, if your test levels were affected enough while on cycle - then 3 or 4 weeks post cycle with no recouperation other than your body doing its own thing, this would very easily explain ball shrinkage while taking it up again. This would mean that the body was not back into full test production just yet, which means not enough post cycle, and this is what the post cycle therapy helps speed up because the body will take a good while on its own. Age may very well play a factor in that and I'm relatively sure it does, as well as probably your own natural levels.

This is also why cycles of 2 weeks on/2 weeks off etc, or even 2/4 with steroids do NOT work there is not nearly enough time off. It generally takes 2-4 weeks to even get the half life of the item in your system down enough, to even be able to begin recouperation. As for the legal stuff I'm more in the dark on.


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## bigpump23 (Jun 12, 2003)

I would stay on it, ball shrinking sometimes happens with ph's, if you take the right steps post cycle you'll be fine


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## ZECH (Jun 13, 2003)

Mudge, most PH's half life is several hours. Thus that is why you apply transdermals 12 hours apart and most orals are split into 3 doses a day. So you need to start post cycle therapy immediately the next day!


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## JoshH (Jun 13, 2003)

no matter how much they shrink, won't they go back to normal over time with no permanent effects at all?


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## Arnold (Jun 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by JoshH *_
> no matter how much they shrink, won't they go back to normal over time with no permanent effects at all?



well, that is the risk you take. 

usually they do and you never have any problems, especially with only one cycle of PH's.


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## Twin Peak (Jun 13, 2003)

I have never heard of a PH case where they did not return to normal size.  6-oxo will help it along.

DG is correct on the half life issue, but it could be a few days for it to clear your system completely.  It will take a few weeks for your bodies endogenous T levels to return to normal, depending on how long you are on.

I have not heard temper issues either, so it may be confounding factors.


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## Mudge (Jun 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Mudge, most PH's half life is several hours. Thus that is why you apply transdermals 12 hours apart and most orals are split into 3 doses a day. So you need to start post cycle therapy immediately the next day!



That makes sense, most any oral since being broken down by the liver, is not in the system too long  I honestly think the aggression is mental, I just have a hard time believing it and I've seen nothing that I think is proof as to why it can happen. Thats a whole other thing tho 

It is believed though that out of whack hormone levels (usually in a bad way, high estrogen) can cause it though, as well as sickness.

Since your on these supplements for such a short period, and they are not that hard hitting on the system, I see no risk at all. Cycles are 4-6 weeks and have heard of nothing longer that I can recall.


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## ZECH (Jun 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by JoshH *_
> no matter how much they shrink, won't they go back to normal over time with no permanent effects at all?


Like others said, with correct post cycle they will. But another thing to remember is the length of time you are on cycle and the amount of time your natural test is suppressed! The longer it is suppressed, the more chance you have of permanantly damaging your system!


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## Mudge (Jun 13, 2003)

Yep yep. I used Deca as an example because it is infamous for hitting the system VERY hard, and it has ~6 day half life, so for the levels to come down appreciably to even begin post cycle, plus the amount of time on cycle, makes a 10 week cycle rather like 14 weeks. Obviously the over the counter stuff is easier on the body AND shorter cycle, so with post cycle there should be no problems with real testicular atrophy.

I wouldn't doubt that age would have something to do with it and natural test levels. If a second cycle seems to affect your testes more than the previous one, then maybe post cycle was not quite enough or not enough time after post cycle. It takes time for the body to bounce back, especially if you were to have no post cycle regimen which leaves the body with almost no test and a high estrogen level, and that is not quickly corrected by the body itself.


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## Mudge (Jun 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by JoshH *_
> no matter how much they shrink, won't they go back to normal over time with no permanent effects at all?



Well, no. If you truly shrink them down big time then you can have a problem. But I do not believe at all that a 4-6 week cycle of any legal items are going to do this to you, it is normally the 12-16 week heavy hitters that have this problem and again were talking illegal stuff, not OTC. There are ways around it with HCG but that too is doctor prescribed only.

Legal people have nothing to worry about IMO, if your 'gonads' drop 50% in size then you have reason for alarm, if your natural hormone levels are within normal range though then I really dont forsee any probs.


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## slowpain (Jun 16, 2003)

no shit deca hits the system hard, I took 400 mgs a week with primo and I was on such a low test I was going crazy.  I felt depressed and wished at times I never did the cycle, I think if I would have taken something like 4-AD with the cycle I would have been fine.  But post recovery it took me about a month before I got my sex drive back and thats when I was 20 years old. A 20 year old male is supposed to be in the prime of his life at 20.


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## Mudge (Jun 16, 2003)

It takes about 4 weeks just for Deca half life to come down enough to even begin to offer any recoup ability, so yes it hits hard. Primo is often faked unfortunately, and most people use test 2:1 to try and stave off Decas effects, it can also be dropped earlier than test to try and again help avoid any crashing.


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