# Blood work back, holy s**t



## The big guy (Jun 12, 2006)

I went for me yearly Physical, and I do blood work regularly, and I just got back my blood work and before it even got to my house in the mail my doc called me in for more blood work, well any way my liver ALT/SGPT 132, and when I started all was normal, my cycle was 16 weeks 1-4 A-drol 100mgs 1-8 Eq 800mgs and Test E1000mgs, 8-16 Test E 1000mgs, Tren E 400mgs. Chlorestrol took a beating which I figured it would, a took 500mgs of Niacin and flax seed oil and still took a pretty good beating Hdl 25 and Ldl 213. Damn that sux and the Doc asked if I use AAS. So I will be expecting another call form the Doc soon..also forgot to mention I also took Liv-52 while on A-drol and milk thisle after taking orals..
Here's the actual results,

Result Urine Glucose (UA) NEGATIVE NORMAL
Urine Bilirubin MODERATE ABNORMAL
Urine Ketones NEGATIVE NORMAL
Urine Occult Blood NEGATIVE NORMAL Urine
Protein NEGATIVE NORMAL
Urine Leukocyte Esterase NEGATIVE NORMAL
Glucose Level 97 NORMAL
Creatinine 1.2 NORMAL
Alanine Aminotransferase (ALT/SGPT) 132 ABNORMAL
Cholesterol Level 253 GOAL <200
Triglycerides Level 88 NORMAL
LDL Cholesterol, Calculated 213 GOAL <130
HDL Cholesterol 23 GOAL > 40
White Blood Count 5.1 NORMAL
Red Blood Count 5.7 NORMAL
Hemoglobin 16.1 NORMAL
Hematocrit 48.1 NORMAL
platelet"~count" 316 ~ NORMAL
Prostate Specific Antigen Total 1.4 NORMAL
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) 3.05 NORMAL * *
THYROID: TSH IS WHERE YOU WANT IT NOW, NORMAL RANGE 0.47-4.68. CONTINUE WITH THE 150 MCG TABS DAILY *
YOUR LIVER NUMBER, SGPT, IS HIGH AT 132. I REVIEWED YOUR CHART -WE HAVE RESULTS FROM 1999-2002, THAN AGAIN SINCE 2005.MORE OFTEN THAN NOT , IT HAS BEEN ELEVATED. THIS IS THE HIGEST IT HAS BEEN, THE PRIOR HIGH WAS 83 IN 2001. *
YOUR LDL CHOLESTGEROL IS WAY TOO HIGH, AND THIS IS WITH THE THYROID

MOOO2lll82

NOW IN NORMAL RANGE. YOUR HDL IS WAY TOO LOW. EACH OF THESE IS A

SIGNIFICANT RISK FACTOR FOR HEART DISEASE. THIS NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED *
QUESTION: ARE YOU USING BODY BUILDING SUPPLEMENTS AND/OR ANABOLIC STEROIDS? THESE CAN DEPRESS HDL AND INJURE THE LIVER. I HAVE ASKED THE LAB TO DO ADDITIONAL TESTS TO FURTHER EVALUATE THE LIVER RESULT .
*
YOU SHOULD SEE DR AND GO OVER THESE VERY IMPORTANT ISSUES


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## Mudge (Jun 13, 2006)

Milk thistle is apparently not a good long term item to use, it loses effectiveness over time while NAC does not.

Niacin hits the liver too, so although you used only a small amount that may have contributed slightly to your liver values.

Did you feel your liver at all? I did, and my values were MUCH lower than yours. My only saving grace in the cholesterol department (I totalled under 200) was my fiber intake. If you could double your HDL and half your LDL you'd be in good shape, at least with that.

Did you fast for 12 hours before your cholesterol test?


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## Pirate! (Jun 13, 2006)

Supplements and food choices can only help so much when you are on that much gear. Still, having a diet high in soluable fiber and low in saturated fat helps. How long have you been off cycle?


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## Ironhorse (Jun 13, 2006)

*Liv.52*

Unfortunatly most people taking liv.52 are taking the smelly american version from the hymalain group.. sorry on the spellling...
The REAL effective Liv.52 is only available in Napal.  It is considered, or will be, a perscription drug, and the fda will never get to it, nor will the manufacturer introduce it here becouse of the crazy cost of bringing the med to market.  If you can get a hookup in Napal for liv.52 your in the money.  
I have taken blood before and after.  My value was 86'ish, then I incorporated the REAL Napal version (still made by Hymalain) three coated red pills a day, not the packed weed version here, and three months later my high value was down to 29.  I was on a gram of test, and one 50mg Winnie ED.  Ya, I'm the bad example when it comes to pct..... I bridge twice a year for a month with one sus a week for the so called off months.  Over a decade on now, but healthy acording to blood, (sans hypogonad), BP, and fine on the oxy pulse meter.
Chow.  
Ironhorse


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## The big guy (Jun 13, 2006)

Mudge said:
			
		

> Milk thistle is apparently not a good long term item to use, it loses effectiveness over time while NAC does not.
> 
> Niacin hits the liver too, so although you used only a small amount that may have contributed slightly to your liver values.
> 
> ...


Yea, I fasted for 12 hours, and where can I get NAC but straight NAC.


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## Mudge (Jun 13, 2006)

www.1fast400.com or www.bulknutrition.com sells them in canisters.


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## The big guy (Jun 13, 2006)

Thanks for the info..Bro


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## TopProducer (Jun 13, 2006)

did you tell your doctor you have been using steriods after he asked you?


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## The big guy (Jun 13, 2006)

TopProducer said:
			
		

> did you tell your doctor you have been using steriods after he asked you?


Hell no, I told him I used stuff like superdrol, I don't need to be dropped from my insurance, I love my Doc and I would like to be honest but, I love my wife and I don't tell her everything either lol..


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## The big guy (Jun 13, 2006)

Did you feel your liver at all? I did, and my values were MUCH lower than yours. My only saving grace in the cholesterol department (I totalled under 200) was my fiber intake. If you could double your HDL and half your LDL you'd be in good shape, at least with that.

Did you fast for 12 hours before your cholesterol test?[/QUOTE]
I don't feel a thing on my right side, I feel great 110%.......


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## Trouble (Jun 14, 2006)

I'm kicking this one up on the hotsheet, its an interesting case.

I'll come back to answer it a little later on; work is a bit busy this morning.

One thing; do you REALLY think your doc doesn't know whats going on here, with your body shape, your thryoid use, your elevated blood lipids (which should be low due to cholesterol suckout from P450 repression in liver), and that very strange liver enzyme value??

LMAO.  She is simply polite and not saying anything, because you either lie or get pissy if she did.


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## Pirate! (Jun 14, 2006)

Trouble said:
			
		

> your elevated blood lipids (which should be low due to cholesterol suckout from P450 repression in liver)


Is this P450 the isoform of cytochrome P450 3A4?


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## TopProducer (Jun 14, 2006)

Trouble said:
			
		

> One thing; do you REALLY think your doc doesn't know whats going on here, with your body shape, your thryoid use, your elevated blood lipids (which should be low due to cholesterol suckout from P450 repression in liver), and that very strange liver enzyme value??
> 
> LMAO.  She is simply polite and not saying anything, because you either lie or get pissy if she did.



Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Your doctor knows what's going on whether you want to tell her or not.


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## ant is lifting (Jun 14, 2006)

putting all that aside, how was your gains??


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## The big guy (Jun 18, 2006)

ant is lifting said:
			
		

> putting all that aside, how was your gains??


My gains were great, and I am holding every pound 6'5" 282 and I am not sure on bf% but it is on a guess 15% and now trying to drop and little more, I liked this cycle, I ate really clean all threw it and even dropped bf, kept carbs low and  threw in alot of cardio..now my goal is to get in better condition drop bf and them hit another cycle and keep it clean again, I hate when I cycle and eat everything in site and add a ton of fat with the muscle and when it over now I have a ton of fat to lose an then you lose alot of the gains you made...


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## Boost777 (Jun 19, 2006)

you're going to cycle again after those test results?


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## The big guy (Jun 19, 2006)

Boost777 said:
			
		

> you're going to cycle again after those test results?


Yea, but first I will give body a break to get everything back to normal first, you got to get your body back to Homestatsis, which is the natural levels for the body and stay that way and then hit it again..


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## Trouble (Jun 19, 2006)

*And now we will use a little smart chemistry to fix this problem*

The problem here is that oxymethalone  a steroid analog of DHT that is relatively nonspecific for androgen receptor, also binds to a retinoid receptor called RAR, and therein lies the rub with respect to HDL and LDL pathology in liver lipid biochemistry.

So, we are going to use a smart move, an RAR agonist called policosanol that will outcompete oxymethalone from binding to RAR and allow it to perform its normal function as a gene transcription factor important to HDL/LDL formation in hepatocytes.  Its a phytosterol derived from sugar cane processing that has substantially better action in balancing HDL against LDL than the common statin drugs.

And that will also help with another two problems, one being erythrocyte overproduction and blood pressure control.  As a side benefit, when combined with fish oil use, it should also help with prostanoid over production that leads to the annoying inflammatory response headaches and feeling of unwellness common with Anadrol.

Do a google search, find yourself a good source of this sugar cane by product, and start using it.  You should see a response to this supplement, a moth and a maximum effect in about 2-3 months, you need about a month to build it up to appreciable levels in liver.

You need only about 20-40 mg per day to get the job done.  That should staighten out your blood lipid problems. 

Better living through nuclear receptor chemistry.


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## scottyshotty (Jun 19, 2006)

What is the whole deal with the ast alt levels anyway? Mine were around 130 before the cycle(very high) they talked about chirrosis and hep. then after the cycle it was a normal 20???


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## Trouble (Jun 19, 2006)

"PPARα does not function exclusively as a regulator of lipid metabolism. It also influences the expression of numerous genes implicated in major pathways of amino acid metabolism, indicating that it is a key controller of intermediary metabolism. This control includes the transcriptional regulation of genes involved in transamination, deamination, urea cycle (all five enzymes), oxidation of alpha keto acids, amino acid inter-conversions, and synthesis of amino acid derived products. PPARα suppresses the expression of all these genes, leading to an overall decrease in amino acid degradation." 

Application of this information:  anadrol is weakly binding to yet another important nuclear receptor, this one associated with both insulin sensitivity in pancreas and liver and to nitrogen cycle amino acid metabolism (energy production) as well.  Its the over loading of this pathway with protein combined with suppression by anadrol thats at issue here.

Thats elevated ALT and AST are nitrogen cycle amino acid enzymes under the control of nuclear receptor PPAR-Alpha, and for our corrective treatment, we want sesathin as the control lipid agent. This also reduces the insulin insensitivity issue associated with lipoic acid binding blockade (presumably, steric inhibition, although it maybe competitive binding at the insulin receptor transcriptional element instead).  See, more bang for your buck from nuclear receptor analogs.

Thanks for reminding me.


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## ZECH (Jun 20, 2006)

I've read this and done some study this morning. 
When you have time, tell me about peroxisomes and tetradecyl thioacetic acid.


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## Trouble (Jun 20, 2006)

You would be interested in Scivation's lipolytic product, LipidFx.

Its a combination of nuclear receptor activtors, TTA is one of them.

Since the early 1980s, it has been firmly established that fatty acids can be selectively cytotoxic to tumor cells but not normal cells. Numerous studies have been carried out and several reports have revealed that fatty acids and compounds modulating the fatty acid metabolism exert growth-limiting properties in a variety of cancer cells. One of these compounds is tetradecylthioacetic acid (TTA) [CH3-(CH2)13-S-CH2-COOH], which is a sulfur-substituted fatty acid that has been shown to reduce proliferation of tumor cells.  It cannot be metabolized, only excreted. 

So that Lipid FX is pretty good.  Those who use PPAR activators, like sesathin, forskolin, and TTA, find that they have other actions, like on anterior pituitary, as moderators of prolactin production.  Nice side effect for some of us.  

What they missed: alpha lipoic acid.  And the problem: you can't induce free fatty acid oxidation in cells and increase GLUT4 transport of glucose without consequences.  That last action happens in muscle and peripheral tissues.

The result, if you do NOT have good insulin action, and more importantly, insulin mediated ion and water balance control via aquaporins, you get water retention.

Sure, you get glucose into cells, but oh oh, it can't get out, and with the buildup of ions, comes water with it, to reduce their concentration (naturally happens).  Now, the excess ions and water don't have a fast exit channel if insulin action has been impaired.

So, you will notice, if you have been remiss with diet and chowed on a lot of carbs and thus recently had insulin and glucose spikes (and with lack of exercise, shitty action of insulin in inducing those aquaporins), that on a hot day, you will find water retention to be an issue in hands, lower legs and feet, face, and abdomen, thats water retention.

These aquaporin transport proteins are regulated by farnesoid X and liver X nuclear receptors.  These NR, in turn, are regulated by cholesterol synthesis and its activators, like insulin.

So, when you goose up blood glucose and insulin via diet, you have this problem with water retention if these liver nuclear receptors are dysregulated by stress and diet related insulin spiking of cholesterol and reduced production of bile acids --> or their signal (NR) blockade by steroids.

Mmm doggies, dontch jest luv how these lipids can tango in your liver?  

BTW, you will see studies that sez it blocks insulin resistance by high fat diets, thats only true if its there *before* the fat induces insulin...and estrogen receptors.  Its estrogen receptor that screws with vasopressin action, and thats another tie in with both cell proliferation and water retention in cells.


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## ZECH (Jun 20, 2006)

Thanks for the lipid fx link. May have to try that. Kinda expensive.
Mike has it on sell.......http://www.bulknutrition.com/?products_id=2329


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