# Why We Get Fat



## OnceWasFat (Jul 26, 2013)

Has anybody else read the book Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes?  He very convincingly argues for an alternative hypothesis of weight maintenance that turns conventionally wisdom on its head.  He argues that the reason we gain or lose fat isn?t simply because calories in are greater or less than calories expended, but that macronutrient composition, specifically the quality and quantity of carbohydrates we consume, controls our accumulation of fat.  He backs his arguments with modern science and relevant science from a few decades ago and states that the nutritional advice of the recent decades has been at odds with observed reality.

Any thoughts?


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## OfficerFarva (Jul 26, 2013)

It's because people eat like shit and sit on their asses all day.


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## OnceWasFat (Jul 26, 2013)

Taubes argues that they eat like shit and sit on there asses all day because they are getting fat, not the other way around.  In effect, high insulin levels are robing their energy and storing it as fat, making them either eat more and/or move less to meet their body's energy demands.


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## OfficerFarva (Jul 26, 2013)

OnceWasFat said:


> Taubes argues that they eat like shit and sit on there asses all day because they are getting fat, not the other way around.  In effect, high insulin levels are robing their energy and storing it as fat, making them either eat more and/or move less to meet their body's energy demands.



Those hundreds of millions of fat people also have bad genetics, right?


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## OnceWasFat (Jul 26, 2013)

No, he's not saying that.  He's saying that the low-fat, high-carb diet that's been the official recommendation, the famous food pyramid, leads the high insulin levels which drives abnormal fat accumulation.


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## OfficerFarva (Jul 26, 2013)

OnceWasFat said:


> No, he's not saying that.  He's saying that the low-fat, high-carb diet that's been the official recommendation, the famous food pyramid, leads the high insulin levels which drives abnormal fat accumulation.



There might be some truth in that but I don't know anyone that follows that pyramid on purpose.  I do however know a lot of people who can devour an entire pizza and 30 beer in a night multiple times a week.


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## OnceWasFat (Jul 26, 2013)

People certainly need to make better choices.  It might help *some* if they knew there were delicious alternatives, like bacon and eggs, that won't make them fat instead of thinking that it will (assuming Taubes is right).


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## Calves of Steel (Jul 26, 2013)

Carbs are not as filling as fat per calorie, and they raise insulin dramatically causing fat, muscle, and water gain. Switching from a standard 50% carb diet to a keto diet will make it much harder to maintain weight if you eat to fullness. You'll also notice a difference in how your appetite comes on. Instead of rapid hunger you get a very gradual buildup in appetite that's easier to ignore.


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## AmM (Jul 26, 2013)

Calves of Steel said:


> Carbs are not as filling as fat per calorie, and they raise insulin dramatically causing fat, muscle, and water gain. Switching from a standard 50% carb diet to a keto diet will make it much harder to maintain weight if you eat to fullness. You'll also notice a difference in how your appetite comes on. Instead of rapid hunger you get a very gradual buildup in appetite that's easier to ignore.



Carbs don't get you fat, too many calories make you fat. You can get shredded on a high carb low fat diet as long as your in a calorie deficit. Stop making carbs out as being the reason for obesity. People are obese because they shove too much food down their throat.


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## dave 236 (Jul 26, 2013)

AmM said:


> Carbs don't get you fat, too many calories make you fat. You can get shredded on a high carb low fat diet as long as your in a calorie deficit. Stop making carbs out as being the reason for obesity. People are obese because they shove too much food down their throat.



Nope. This is just wrong! Show me how at a calorie deficit on a predominantly high carb diet this will work. Skinny fat is what you'll get. You may not be overweight but you will not be anywhere close to shredded.

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## theCaptn' (Jul 27, 2013)

AmM said:


> Carbs don't get you fat, too many calories make you fat. You can get shredded on a high carb low fat diet as long as your in a calorie deficit. Stop making carbs out as being the reason for obesity. People are obese because they shove too much food down their throat.



A cal deficit of McDs will get you shredded ...... ...


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## AmM (Jul 27, 2013)

dave 236 said:


> Nope. This is just wrong! Show me how at a calorie deficit on a predominantly high carb diet this will work. Skinny fat is what you'll get. You may not be overweight but you will not be anywhere close to shredded.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2



Bullshit! Many have and many still do. "Skinny fat" LOL, you been reading to many boards!


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## dave 236 (Jul 27, 2013)

OnceWasFat said:


> People certainly need to make better choices.  It might help *some* if they knew there were delicious alternatives, like bacon and eggs, that won't make them fat instead of thinking that it will (assuming Taubes is right).



The fact that we've all been inundated with lies about how eating foods like these raises serum cholesterol levels doesn't help. We have a self created epidemic of unhealthy obese people in the world (esp the U.S.) and its got a lot to do with being given bad information about what does and doesn't make us fat.  If i hear one more fucking dietician in a hospital tell a cardiac patient that he/she can have all the grains they want but should watch out for eggs i may commit a homicide. Its ridiculous and only serves to keep people on meds. 

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## dave 236 (Jul 27, 2013)

AmM said:


> Bullshit! Many have and many still do. "Skinny fat" LOL, you been reading to many boards!



You should read more in general. If you are thinner with a 25% bodyfat what would you call it? Shredded? Whatever. you are just wrong about high carbs at a calorie deficit. Carbs are the one macro you dont have to consume any of as you can produce them from amino acid or fatty acid breakdown. Try going on a no fat diet for a while and just increase carbs, then go have labs done and check your hormone levels. I work as a lab tech at a college that trains Med lab personnel. I see it 1st hand quiet a bit. Now im not a proponent of goin carb free but limiting simple carbs is something i think most people would benefit from. 

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## OnceWasFat (Jul 29, 2013)

The whole calorie deficit argument is just a red herring.  Of course if you're in an energy deficit you're going to lose weight (some muscle and some fat).  That's the physical reality of the problem -- The First Law of Thermodynamics.  It's the mechanism, the "how" we lose weight, but it says nothing about the biology of why we accumulate or shed fat.  Fat is stored or liberated primarily under the action of insulin.  Carbohydrates drive insulin which drives fat accumulation.

Our bodies have some energy requirement -- call it E.  If we consume exactly E amount of calories we could still be in an energy deficit or surplus.  If high insulin levels are causing us to store some of our consumed energy as fat, then we have no choice but to either become more sedentary or eat more (or both) the meet our energy demand (or possibly catabolize our other tissues, becoming "skinny fat").  This is why carbohydrate heavy diets are driving the obesity epidemic.


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## theCaptn' (Jul 29, 2013)

Protein can elicit an insulin response as well


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## OnceWasFat (Jul 30, 2013)

That is certainly true, but the insulin response in healthy people to protein is much lower than to glucose, and it's even slightly lower in Type II diabetics.  Plus, the rise time in serum insulin levels is much slower.  When protein is consumed along with significant amounts of dietary fat, the response curve is even lower and slower than to carbohydrates with fat.  In fact, carbohydrates consumed along with a little protein (with minimal fat), gives the greatest insulin spike.  The central point is that carbohydrates are the primary driver of insulin and insulin drives fat accumulation (and inhibits fat breakdown).


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## _LG_ (Jul 30, 2013)

OnceWasFat said:


> That is certainly true, but the insulin response in healthy people to protein is much lower than to glucose, and it's even slightly lower in Type II diabetics.  Plus, the rise time in serum insulin levels is much slower.  When protein is consumed along with significant amounts of dietary fat, the response curve is even lower and slower than to carbohydrates with fat.  In fact, carbohydrates consumed along with a little protein (with minimal fat), gives the greatest insulin spike.  The central point is that carbohydrates are the primary driver of insulin and insulin drives fat accumulation (and inhibits fat breakdown).



You can lead a sheep to water,  but you can't make them drink.


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## OnceWasFat (Jul 30, 2013)

Roger that...but it's always interesting to watch the debate play out.


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## _LG_ (Jul 30, 2013)

People get ideas in their head and can't let go.


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## s2h (Jul 30, 2013)

The type of carbs matter...100g of carbs from snickers bars are going to effect a person different then 100g from brown rice..


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## OnceWasFat (Jul 30, 2013)

s2h said:


> The type of carbs matter...100g of carbs from snickers bars are going to effect a person different then 100g from brown rice..



Absolutely.  The quality of the carbs is important.  However, because of individual variability some people will be able to handle brown rice just fine, while others will mostly turn it to fat.  People who stay significantly lean despite eating quite a few carbs probably have smaller insulin responses that those who get fat just looking at something like brown rice.


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## LINK0435 (Jul 30, 2013)

Part of the issue I believe is that we eat too much empty calories in this country in general we are fed processed crap everywhere you go. Even foods marked as healthy alternatives if you read the label's will still be loaded with sugars and salts. People need simply eat more natural foods and it would not be such an issue, start making your own food instead of buying pre prepared items or going out to chain restaurants. the further you get away from this stuff the better you feel and it becomes easier to lose weight that's all I did and I dropped 60 lbs.


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## OnceWasFat (Jul 30, 2013)

I think that's some great advice.  It's unfortunate that obesity disproportionately inflicts the financially less fortunate.  It's probably because it's cheaper to eat that processed, high-sugar, junk than healthier alternatives.


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## Christsean (Jul 30, 2013)

Can I keep it real simple for a moment. ..... always remember.......eat less, move around more, lose weight.

That is the magic behind any good diet.


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## Little Wing (Jul 30, 2013)

i'm kinda sure it was simply that second blt. i vote overeating plain and simple.


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## dave 236 (Jul 30, 2013)

Christsean said:


> Can I keep it real simple for a moment. ..... always remember.......eat less, move around more, lose weight.
> 
> That is the magic behind any good diet.



True enough, if you are only concerned with weight. If you are concerned with your body's composition however,  it  isn't that simple. 

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## Christsean (Jul 30, 2013)

dave 236 said:


> True enough, if you are only concerned with weight. If you are concerned with your body's composition however,  it  isn't that simple.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2



Yes sir, you are correct. That was a rhetorical statement (if such exists).

The basic principle holds true in any diet though.  Take the most scientifically approached diet around and at the end of the day what has taken place to lose the weight? Less unused calories consumed than used by the body. 

I hope this was taken in good humor as I intended.


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## Powermaster (Jul 31, 2013)

It's lifestyle simply put.

Not just overeating this or that. It's the availability of good whole food in the country is just appalling. Go to the grocery store on any corner any you'll find mostly processed food that was engineered to be addicting. Then there's fast food, soft drinks....

Yeah sure Taubes is right about the insulin part but it's much more than that with processed foods and meats filled with antibiotics and high levels of omega 6 screwing up hormone balances of growing kids and adults as well.
Then we have the lack of exercise part mostly caused by the hormone imbalances setting off metabolic & metabolism mess.
Environmental factors are involved as well with amount of xeno estrogens used in packaging all processed foods and drinks....


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## dave 236 (Jul 31, 2013)

Christsean said:


> Yes sir, you are correct. That was a rhetorical statement (if such exists).
> 
> The basic principle holds true in any diet though.  Take the most scientifically approached diet around and at the end of the day what has taken place to lose the weight? Less unused calories consumed than used by the body.
> 
> I hope this was taken in good humor as I intended.



Yes, no animosity felt. its a discussion that comes up often though and its worth debating the different opi ions and evidence out there because obesity  and diabetes (type  2) are almost synonymous. Then there are those stupid BMI charts at the doctors offices or hanging up in Target pharmacy that confuse people into believing you just have to achieve a certain weight (or lack of weight) relevant to height to be healthy. Much of the problem exists now due to the sedentary lifestyles being led by a large majority of the population along side the myth that since fat is more calorie dense than carbs you're better off eating whole grain toast (or whatever the grain based flavor of the month is) than eggs or steak. Calories definitely matter however which is another reason logging what is eaten is important in maintaining a healthy diet.

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## OnceWasFat (Jul 31, 2013)

Here's one that flies in the face of common sense.  Exercise DOES NOT help us lose or even maintain our weight -- at least according to the available research on the subject.  It makes us healthier and probably happier, but also makes us hungrier.  Thus, we eat more to meet our increased energy demand.


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## dave 236 (Jul 31, 2013)

If you exercise enough or with enough intensity to stay in a calorie deficit it does but if you exercise so you can eat more cheetos then no it wont. It will help maintain fat free mass at a deficit or at maintenance calories though.

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## dave 236 (Jul 31, 2013)

Well let me qualify that last statement...weight bearing exercise will help preserve fat free mass. 

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## Powermaster (Aug 2, 2013)

OnceWasFat said:


> Here's one that flies in the face of common sense.  Exercise DOES NOT help us lose or even maintain our weight -- at least according to the available research on the subject.  It makes us healthier and probably happier, but also makes us hungrier.  Thus, we eat more to meet our increased energy demand.



I would say that flies in the face of common belief more so than common sense.


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## Big Smoothy (Aug 2, 2013)

I downloaded "why we get fat" a few moths ago, and have not read it.  Because of this thread (thanks, 'oncewasfat') I am now downloading the audio book.

There will always be debate of whether it's caloric intake or the types of calories.  I think there is truth in both - depending on the person.  And, I've read and tried lots of this stuff an different programs, as have the members that have posted on this thread.

As for me (we are all individuals) high glycemic white rice bloats me big time.  Does it cause me to gain weight?  I have not checked the scales, and I avoid white rice and other high glycemic carbs (except for traveling where I am at, where white rice is thrown onto most dishes.

If I intake a protein diet with a lower amount of complex carbs I thin out, retain/gain muscle, and feel a hell of a lot better.


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## svt2001 (Aug 2, 2013)

Big Smoothy said:


> I downloaded "why we get fat" a few moths ago, and have not read it.  Because of this thread (thanks, 'oncewasfat') I am now downloading the audio book.
> 
> There will always be debate of whether it's caloric intake or the types of calories.  I think there is truth in both - depending on the person.  And, I've read and tried lots of this stuff an different programs, as have the members that have posted on this thread.
> 
> ...




If you are short on time and don't want to read Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes, you can watch the Fat Head movie by Tom Naughton.

Also, something that I experimented with is eating parboiled white rice at room temperature or cold.  If I eat regular white rice warm, I immediately go into a coma.  However, parboiled white rice at room temp or even better cold doesn't have this effect.  I believe the starch becomes resistant at lower temps.


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## Big Smoothy (Aug 3, 2013)

svt2001 said:


> If you are short on time and don't want to read Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes, you can watch the Fat Head movie by Tom Naughton.
> 
> Also, something that I experimented with is eating parboiled white rice at room temperature or cold.  If I eat regular white rice warm, I immediately go into a coma.  However, parboiled white rice at room temp or even better cold doesn't have this effect.  I believe the starch becomes resistant at lower temps.



I will check out Fat Head.  Thanks. 

What does *parboiled* mean?

Yes, after white rice I can feel sleepy also.  It is like a poison for me.


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## svt2001 (Aug 3, 2013)

Big Smoothy said:


> I will check out Fat Head.  Thanks.
> 
> What does *parboiled* mean?
> 
> Yes, after white rice I can feel sleepy also.  It is like a poison for me.



*Parboiled rice* (also called *converted rice*) is rice that has been partially boiled in the husk.  That's from wikipedia, here's the link, Parboiled rice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The most popular brand is Uncle Ben's.  I just buy the cheap store brand kind, it's 2 pounds for $1.40.  Parboiled white rice won't give you the same "carb coma" that regular white rice will.  Parboiled rice has the same GI as brown rice.


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## Big Smoothy (Aug 3, 2013)

Thanks svt.


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## MuscleGauge1 (Aug 5, 2013)

The number one reason people get fat is bc of carbs. They are the killer. If not used they turn into fat and that causes weight gain. This is very common in the American culture to load up on carbs and not exercise. Genetics play a role in weight gain but they aren't the entire reason people gain weight. Diet and nutrition play the biggest role in this.


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## Big Smoothy (Aug 5, 2013)

MuscleGauge1 said:


> The number one reason people get fat is bc of carbs. They are the killer. If not used they turn into fat and that causes weight gain. This is very common in the American culture to load up on carbs and not exercise. Genetics play a role in weight gain but they aren't the entire reason people gain weight. Diet and nutrition play the biggest role in this.



So true.

I know personal experienced when i reduce carbs and only intake complex low glycemic carb I lean out.

I just watched "Fat Head."  Good doco, and the "lipid" hypoethesis was covered and I believe it was a sham and pretty ridiculous how politicians and even doctors jumped on board for decades to propel this idiocy.

I also will start listening to "why we get fat" on audio book tomorrow.


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## Powermaster (Aug 8, 2013)

"Why we get fat" is the dumbed down version of "good calories bad calories" by the same author. Both good reads and explain why a calorie from one source isn't the same as a calorie from another as far as fat gain.


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## Dale Mabry (Aug 9, 2013)

I've read the book as well as good calories bad calories.  Taubes is off, there is a relationship between carbohydrates and obesity, but it's because most of the foods that people eat that are high in carbohydrate are processed and loaded with immunogenic proteins.  This is also how insulin enters the picture and is how cholesterol levels go up.  These foods cause an immune response which triggers the immune system to send out a signal that causes muscle and fat to become insulin resistant in order to spare glucose for the immune system.  A different protein that is part of the same signal, called succinate, also tells the liver to secrete more blood glucose.  This would have been advantageous thousands of years ago when gluconeogenesis was the predominant mechanism by which blood glucose levels were increased, but now that you don't need to hunt for your food and you can eat large amounts of carbohydrates, this system can cause some bad juju.  Since lipoproteins are part of the immune system, they go up as well.  Remove these foods and there is probably a minor, if any, relationship between carbohydrate and obesity.  Blood lipids normally go to normal as well.  That is not to say that high or low LDL is a bad thing, it's individual.  Oxidized LDL is bad and an immune response will oxidize LDL and will cause plaque to accumulate if it is chronic in nature.  None of this is to say that calories don't matter, they just matter more when the above happens.


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## Big Smoothy (Aug 9, 2013)

Dale Mabry said:


> I've read the book as well as good calories bad calories.  Taubes is off, there is a relationship between carbohydrates and obesity, but it's because most of the foods that people eat that are high in carbohydrate are *processed and loaded with immunogenic proteins.  *This is also how insulin enters the picture and is how cholesterol levels go up.



With immungenic proteins, are simple carbs loaded with them only?  Or, are they in complex carbs as well? 



> These foods cause an immune response which triggers the immune system to send out a signal that causes muscle and fat to become insulin resistant in order to spare glucose for the immune system.  *A different protein that is part of the same signal, called succinate, also tells the liver to secrete more blood glucose.  This would have been advantageous thousands of years ago when gluconeogenesis was the predominant mechanism by which blood glucose levels were increased, but now that you don't need to hunt for your food and you can eat large amounts of carbohydrates, this system can cause some bad juju.*
> 
> Since lipoproteins are part of the immune system, they go up as well.  Remove these foods and there is probably a minor, if any, relationship between carbohydrate and obesity.  Blood lipids normally go to normal as well.
> 
> That is not to say that high or low LDL is a bad thing, it's individual.  Oxidized LDL is bad and an immune response will oxidize LDL and will cause plaque to accumulate if it is chronic in nature.  None of this is to say that calories don't matter, they just matter more when the above happens.



I assume you're stating that a restricted complex carb diet is the best option. Correct?


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## Dale Mabry (Aug 10, 2013)

Big Smoothy said:


> With immungenic proteins, are simple carbs loaded with them only?  Or, are they in complex carbs as well?
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you're stating that a restricted complex carb diet is the best option. Correct?



Hey Smoothy.  The immunogenic proteins are found in legumes and grains.  Some are more immunogenic, some are less.  Obviously everyone knows about gluten, but all grains and legumes have storage proteins called prolamines.  Humans don't make sufficient levels of the enzyme that breaks these proteins down so they move through the GI tract undigested and can wreak havoc.  Everyone knows what celiac disease is, but few understand how it works.  Basically, gluten gets broken down to gliadin and glutenin, gliadin appears to be the worse of the two.  In all humans, gliadin attaches to receptors of intestinal cells and causes the release of zonulin which dissolves tight junctions between the cells and let's shit(Literally) enter your bloodstream that shouldn't.  In a normal person, this is on the time scale of milliseconds, in celiacs it's much longer.  However, if all you eat is processed shit, you are getting mega doses of grains(Mostly wheat) and legumes(Primarily soy with some peanuts sprinkled in).

I don't think moderate dosages of these foods will cause major problems as long as you are getting a lot of veggies in to help repair the gut damage as well.  Your gut bacteria ferment soluble fibers from veggies and the product is butyric acid, which heals the intestinal wall.  If you are someone with blood glucose control issues or someone trying to get very lean, cut grains and legumes out of your diet and watch what happens.  Legumes are less of an issue because they tend to be packaged with soluble fiber, but they don't really taste all that good anyway unless they are in processed foods and why cause the damage?  As you get older your immune system becomes less efficient, and the dosage of these foods you eat will more than likely have to be reduced.

I don't really recommend a low carb diet, especially to people who lift.  You can go low carb, but there is a bunch of other stuff you have to do and you have to keep your carbs low permanently which I don't want to do.  You can carb cycle, but I'm not a big fan as increasing carb intake reduces your ability to make ketones which is your brain fuel on low carb days.  You can work around this by taking MCT oil or using coconut oil.  I get most of my carbs from white potatoes and other tubers, white rice, and low fructose fruit.  Of the grains, rice is the least allergenic which is why it is one of the first you introduce to babies.  White is better because a lot of the storage proteins are found in the husk, bran and germ which is stripped away.  This also happens to be where all of the nutrient binders are as well.

I'm sure someone will pop in here and say grains and legumes are nutritious foods.  They really aren't.  Here is a talk from Mat Lalonde going over the nutrient densities of different types of food.  Grains and legumes were the worst, and that's not including both's ability to bind nutrients in the gut, he assumes 100% bioavailability which actually gives these foods a higher score than they should have.


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## theCaptn' (Aug 10, 2013)

Dale - you don't eat sweet potato?


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## dave 236 (Aug 10, 2013)

Ill listen to Lalondes position on sweet potatoes and beans when he's more jerked than i am. In other words no time soon.

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## _LG_ (Aug 10, 2013)

dave 236 said:


> Ill listen to Lalondes position on sweet potatoes and beans when he's more jerked than i am. In other words no time soon.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2



Being jacked and being healthy are all too often mutually exclusive.   Its worth approaching your physique goals with health and longevity in mind.


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## dave 236 (Aug 10, 2013)

Yeah i was being very tongue in cheek. I do believe in evolution however and we can not live exactly the way our DNA was programmed a million years ago. We do know now how to prepare foods that our ancestors couldn't. The Paleo diet works by restricting simple carbs. The rest of it stopped mattering when people started eating things they could grow because we could settle in one place due to not having to avoid or out run T rex on a daily basis. 

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## dave 236 (Aug 10, 2013)

Feel free not to eat sweet potatoes or beans or cheese all you want. Im healthy horny and in better shape than most people on the planet and probably in the top 10% of folk my age group. If you feel that limiting yourself of ever enjoying a food just because it's not what a neanderthal would've had us necessary to good health then by all means go ahead. I'd rather find a happy median and not fret every bite i take. JMO. 

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## Dale Mabry (Aug 11, 2013)

I eat sweet potatoes, as does Lalonde. It's not a matter of simple vs complex, that's an antiquated way of looking at carbs and food in general. You need to look at good as energy and building blocks for you, but also as to the effects on the colon and inhabitants of your colon, aka gut bacteria. Just eat unprocessed food, base carb intake on how often you utilize the glycolytic energy system. If you plan on lifting weights, you need carbs.


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## Calves of Steel (Aug 11, 2013)

It's like the stone age over here with this calories in calories out crap. Ever try eating keto a month or two? It's nearly impossible to keep your weight on without nauseating amounts of food. Seriously, if you want to lose weight, lower your carbs. Your appetite will tank. Wanna gain weight? Lower fat and raise carbs. You'll be shocked at how fast your appetite comes back after every meal. And yes, skinny fat = fat.


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## dave 236 (Aug 11, 2013)

Dale Mabry said:


> I eat sweet potatoes, as does Lalonde. It's not a matter of simple vs complex, that's an antiquated way of looking at carbs and food in general. You need to look at good as energy and building blocks for you, but also as to the effects on the colon and inhabitants of your colon, aka gut bacteria. Just eat unprocessed food, base carb intake on how often you utilize the glycolytic energy system. If you plan on lifting weights, you need carbs.



Yes, but most people eat far more processed simple carbs that they need. Antiquated as the term may be it serves the purposes here for discussion as nearly everyone understands those terms. The issues you raise about healthy flora of the gi tract are also very important. Many times just supplementing a probiotic enzyme mix will initiate fat loss. Truth is processed carbs are cheap and convenient and therefore a staple of most peoples diets. Its hard and expensive in comparison to eat quality food at every meal and there fore supplementing with protein shakes( which are both processed and cheap) can be a viable option and effective for losing fat. Everyone by now that cares to know understands that eating whole fresh foods is best but almost no one will maintain that commitment for long. 

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## Dale Mabry (Aug 12, 2013)

dave 236 said:


> Yes, but most people eat far more processed simple carbs that they need. Antiquated as the term may be it serves the purposes here for discussion as nearly everyone understands those terms. The issues you raise about healthy flora of the gi tract are also very important. Many times just supplementing a probiotic enzyme mix will initiate fat loss. Truth is processed carbs are cheap and convenient and therefore a staple of most peoples diets. Its hard and expensive in comparison to eat quality food at every meal and there fore supplementing with protein shakes( which are both processed and cheap) can be a viable option and effective for losing fat. Everyone by now that cares to know understands that eating whole fresh foods is best but almost no one will maintain that commitment for long.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2



I'm working on 3 years.  I think the problem most people have is that they define success as 100% commitment 100% of the time.  In that instance I agree with you, no one will completely avoid processed foods.  That shouldn't be your goal, your goal should be to eat as much fresh, whole, unprocessed food as possible.  Even if you only stick to that 80-90% of the time most people will get where they want to be.


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## dave 236 (Aug 12, 2013)

3 yrs is definitely an accomplishment. Its more than I or most anyone else will ever do. I am in the 75-80% group. Mainly fresh unprocessed foods now days but i throw in cheat days and a beer or two once in a while but im sooo much better and healthier than i was before. Once again i wasn't arguing your point only stating that for someone who's overweight and needs to drop pounds then the best diet ( at least to begin with ) is usu the one they will stick to. Once they get over the sugar/ carb cravings and feel better its easier to move into removing other problem foods. 


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## morgan123 (Aug 16, 2013)

Hi Guys!!
We Get fat because we don't think when we are eating food either it is fatty and high protein diet or not.Like Beef, fish,cheese,nuts. These all are the sources of fat.Avoid high protein diet eat fresh vegetables and fruits which contain minerals,vitamins,iron that are really good our health.Exercise regularly to reduce fatness.


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## dave 236 (Aug 17, 2013)

morgan123 said:


> Hi Guys!!
> We Get fat because we don't think when we are eating food either it is fatty and high protein diet or not.Like Beef, fish,cheese,nuts. These all are the sources of fat.Avoid high protein diet eat fresh vegetables and fruits which contain minerals,vitamins,iron that are really good our health.Exercise regularly to reduce fatness.



Im sorry but your premise is off base as far as what cause people to get or stay fat. Ive seen plenty of fat vegatarians and lots of lean proponents of paleo type diets based mainly on consumption of protein and fats. You really cannot make a generalized statement like that and say " this is why people get fat" there are many variables to consider. If you mean to say the type if diet you suggest will lead to a lower body mass in general then that's a different story but you will not have very much lean body mass.

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## Dale Mabry (Aug 17, 2013)

Most people looking to lose some weight probably should increase fat a bit, drop carbs a bit, and stick around the same protein intake.  Keep in mind most animals eat to their protein need anyway.  The easiest way to do that is remove processed foods.  However, if you're asking me what the healthiest diet is I would probably keep protein to between 100-150g/day.  Basically, just eat a serving of meat every meal and you are getting enough.  Not saying you can't be lean and healthy slightly off of these recommendations, we are pretty flexible metabolically.  From an avoiding cancer and heart disease standpoint I wouldn't try to overdose protein for long periods of time.  

Next week I'm gonna begin working out an all natural foods diet that gives 100% of the RDA for all of the essential vitamins and minerals.  I've had too many people who have no idea what they are talking about tell me it's impossible to do without grains and legumes.


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## dave 236 (Aug 17, 2013)

^^^ im sure you already know you can. I look forward to seeing it.( Not being a smartass at all) i like more protein than you advocate but i respect your knowledge enough that i will pay attention and try anything reasonable. 

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## morgan123 (Aug 18, 2013)

morgan123 said:


> Hi Guys!!
> We Get fat because we don't think when we are eating food either it is fatty and high protein diet or not.Like Beef, fish,cheese,nuts. These all are the sources of fat.Avoid high protein diet eat fresh vegetables and fruits which contain minerals,vitamins,iron that are really good our health.Exercise regularly to reduce fatness.



For more tips to reduce fatness click here..
Tacoma fitness


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## DCGonzalez (Aug 27, 2013)

People eat more than they realize when faced with large portion sizes. This usually means eating too many calories.


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## flood (Aug 27, 2013)

Dale Mabry said:


> I'm working on 3 years.  I think the problem most people have is that they define success as 100% commitment 100% of the time.  In that instance I agree with you, no one will completely avoid processed foods.  That shouldn't be your goal, your goal should be to eat as much fresh, whole, unprocessed food as possible.  Even if you only stick to that 80-90% of the time most people will get where they want to be.


That's where I typically am. I vary my eating, however, and am not real strict. Been doing it that way for many years. 
Have you seen this Paul Chek video, and what do you think of it:
NUTRITION: The Dirt Facts -MUST KNOW INFORMATION! P.1 - YouTube


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## Dale Mabry (Sep 9, 2013)

flood said:


> That's where I typically am. I vary my eating, however, and am not real strict. Been doing it that way for many years.
> Have you seen this Paul Chek video, and what do you think of it:
> NUTRITION: The Dirt Facts -MUST KNOW INFORMATION! P.1 - YouTube



I agree with basically everything he said in that video, Paul Chek is pretty good.


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## DaveZane (Jan 9, 2014)

I don't really understand, can you expand on this?


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## DaveZane (Jan 9, 2014)

Sorry meant to say I don't understand why legumes and grains are not healthy.


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## vassille (Jan 10, 2014)

I have to say that this is an intersting thread. Im going to try to add a bit to this conversation of why we get fat and I have to agree with those who said that calories count may not have to do with geting fat as many think. 

So we have carbs, protein, fat. 

Let's just agree tthat proteinis sort of are neutral in terms of fat gain. 
Then we left with carbs and fat. 

Fat if eaten for energy produce ketones. Ketones can not be used as stored fat and whatever is over produced will just be disgarded. So the notion that fat makes you fat is bogus.

Next are the dreaded carbs. Well here is the issue with carbs. Carbs do have the ability to be stored as fat. But here is the skinny on the carbs.

1.When carbs are consumed complex or simple it breaks down into glucose. Glucose is very toxic to the body! Say what? ..but this is the fuel we all use. Yes it is used as fuel but high glucose levels cause nerve damage. The problem with carbs is the they need to be used all at once or if cells in our bodies are saturated they have the ability to ignore insulin signaling thus this glucose is stored as fat. (insulin resistance)
Remember, because glucose is toxic it has to stay at a certain level in the body. 

2.Our bodies will go to any lengths to keep glucose under control and will produce a huge amount of insulin to deal with this. So when ppl get fat rather quickly eating carbs it is caused by this process of having some insulin resistance, methabolic issues and over consuming carbs. 

3.However, many ppl get hungry and want to eat more even though they are fat...common problem. That's simply because there is an imbalance in our methabolic process. In other words, fat is not released from fat deposits due to the insulin/glucagon imbalance. When insulin is a bit high that suporesses glucagon which is the primary signal for the body to release fat stores for energy.

Now, carbs are not bad to eat but once our bodies get into this insulin resistance and methabolic process issue these carbs are basically the worse thing you can eat.


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## heavyiron (Jan 10, 2014)

Great discussion here. 

Insulin can be a friend or foe unfortunately in our modern culture of eating its our foe many times.


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## micheal78 (Jan 14, 2014)

wrong food choices are plays a big role when you gain fat.


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 15, 2014)

DaveZane said:


> Sorry meant to say I don't understand why legumes and grains are not healthy.



It depends.  In the context of a diet rich in vegetables and lacking processed foods they are probably not bad at all.  The main issue is that most people's sources of grains and legumes are processed foods.  To be specific with the exact problem with grains and legumes...They contain prolamins which are proteins that are difficult for humans to digest, gluten being one of them.  IMO, long term high dosages of these foods coupled with a diet low in fiber will change the landscape of your gut microbiota in a very bad way.  Like I said, in the context of a high fiber diet that is low in processed foods they are probably not a huge issue.


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## vassille (Jan 15, 2014)

Dale Mabry said:


> It depends.  In the context of a diet rich in vegetables and lacking processed foods they are probably not bad at all.  The main issue is that most people's sources of grains and legumes are processed foods.  To be specific with the exact problem with grains and legumes...They contain prolamins which are proteins that are difficult for humans to digest, gluten being one of them.  IMO, long term high dosages of these foods coupled with a diet low in fiber will change the landscape of your gut microbiota in a very bad way.  Like I said, in the context of a high fiber diet that is low in processed foods they are probably not a huge issue.



you are def on the right track with processed foods and gluten. I stopped eating grains 2 years ago and the difference was like night and day. Come to think of it  most grains are processed. Any diegestive issues I had are all but gone along with heartburns. I really dont understand ppl's fascination with grains and eating a ton of carbs on general. They are not that good for you. 
And gluten basically destroys your stomach lining as you said if too much is eaten.
And the last thing is that grains tend to mess with ones blood sugar and fat storage process.


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