# deadlift form check



## fqqs (Nov 3, 2011)

what do you think about my deadlift form?

sorry for small res

VID 20111103 183523 - YouTube

VID 20111103 184538 - YouTube

thank you for any input


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## fufu (Nov 3, 2011)

A few big points here:

1.) You are lacking proper involvement in the hips through the whole lift. You really need to engage your glutes at the top when you lock out. You aren't completing a full rep in the video, you still need to fire those hips forward.

2.) You aren't getting into a good starting position, and you lift a lot with you lower back muscles. This ties in with the glute thing. It looks like you are leaning your shoulders over the weight, which is only helping facilitate your lumbar muscles in the lift and inhibiting your glutes and hamstrings in hip extension. You need to either have your shoulders above the bar, or better, slightly behind. Think of pulling the weight back towards you, not straight up.

3.) I think you lack flexibility in your posterior chain, probably in the calves, hamstrings and glutes. Stretching those muscles out will help you get into a better starting position.

4.) You bend your elbows in the top 1/3 of the lift, this does nothing but overload your elbow flexors, especially when you start lifting heavier weight. Bending the elbow does nothing for the lift, make sure your arms are locked out in the start of the lift, and stay that way through the entire movement. 

So simple pointers here for improvement:

1.) Stretch out your glutes, hamstrings and calves before lifting so you can position your body efficiently in the lift.

2.) Get your shoulders slightly behind the bar with a "big chest" postured up, and an arch in your lower back.

3.) Really press your hips forward at the top of the lift to complete the full range of motion and encourage hip extension.]

4.) Keep arms straight.

5.) I can't see your feet, but make sure your feet stays flat on the ground, while pressing into your heels. 

Slowly integrate those changes in with light weight and lots of sets with low reps, this way you won't fatigue your body, but you can retrain your movement pattern.

Doing some glute-bridges before your deadlifts can also help you incorporate better hip extension - 

Glute bridge - YouTube

^ You can have your feet flat on the ground though, no need to post up on the heels like in this video.


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## Gazhole (Nov 3, 2011)

I agree with fufu. My points (repeating his basically):

1. GLUTES. You're not locking out your deadlifts. Squeeze your glutes together and the top of the lift.

2. GLUTES. AGAIN. Push your hip through right from the start of the lift. Keep your as low and your chest up. Scrape the bar up your shins if you have to. What you're doing in the vid is starting with your ass low, then it pops up before the bar even leaves the floor and you basically stiff leg the thing up.

3. Your lower back/hams look like they're really inflexible, this is hindering your ability to keep a straight lower back throughout the lift.


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Stretch a lot. Work on glute activation. Also go and google the EliteFTS deadlift videos, they're awesome.


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## Gazhole (Nov 3, 2011)

I agree with fufu. My points (repeating his basically):

1. GLUTES. You're not locking out your deadlifts. Squeeze your glutes together and the top of the lift.

2. GLUTES. AGAIN. Push your hip through right from the start of the lift. Keep your as low and your chest up. Scrape the bar up your shins if you have to. What you're doing in the vid is starting with your ass low, then it pops up before the bar even leaves the floor and you basically stiff leg the thing up.

3. Your lower back/hams look like they're really inflexible, this is hindering your ability to keep a straight lower back throughout the lift.


***


Stretch a lot. Work on glute activation. Also go and google the EliteFTS deadlift videos, they're awesome.


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## CowPimp (Nov 3, 2011)

When performing glute bridges, I know this sounds silly, but palpate your glutes.  Actually put your fingers on your glutes and make sure you're getting a really forceful contraction.


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## ThreeGigs (Nov 3, 2011)

And leave the videos up so the rest of us can learn from your mistakes, too.


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## fqqs (Nov 6, 2011)

thank for your responses, very informative and helpful. im curious about hip position. it is better to start with hips lower or higher (angle between torso and quads higher or lower) ? id ont know, some pople say it is bad to have hips low at the beginning because it is like squat and not DL then. but im squite short and have short arms so i must lower hips if i dont want to start ith my torso almost parallel to the floor


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## Gazhole (Nov 6, 2011)

fqqs said:


> thank for your responses, very informative and helpful. im curious about hip position. it is better to start with hips lower or higher (angle between torso and quads higher or lower) ? id ont know, some pople say it is bad to have hips low at the beginning because it is like squat and not DL then. but im squite short and have short arms so i must lower hips if i dont want to start ith my torso almost parallel to the floor



Hips low, and keep them low. While it's true that during 1RM attempts a lot of even the top guys end up stiff-legging the weight up, this shouldn't be the case for 99% of your time.

Start with your hips down, lead the movement with your head and chest, and pull the weight back and towards you while straightening up rather than directly up.

Push with your glutes, drive your hips through, and stand up straight.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Nov 6, 2011)

Gazhole said:


> Hips low, and keep them low.



You want the hips high.  The legs should be in a quarter squat position. 

 Example: Andy Bolton 1003 Deadlift - YouTube

Kenny Croxdale


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## Gazhole (Nov 6, 2011)

No. Keep your hips low.

If your hips are high, your legs are straighter, and you'll be using 100% lower back. The bar will be further away from your legs decreasing the amount of leverage you can use. Its also a bad cue to pull straight up and keep your head down - two things which will cause a fail.

If your hips are lower, you're in a much better position to use your bodyweight to pull the bar backwards, you can use more glute and leg power, and the bar is closer to you. You can also lean back more and drive through your heels. It automatically brings your head up. It's a stronger position plain and simple.


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## Gazhole (Nov 6, 2011)

Also, i'm confused. Bolton drops his hips immediately before he commences lifting in the video you posted. The hell are you talking about?


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## Kenny Croxdale (Nov 6, 2011)

Gazhole said:


> No. Keep your hips low.



*Deadlifts: The Difference Between High and Low Hips | StrongLifts.com*

"Deadlifts are NOT Squats. Your hips must be much higher in the starting position of the Deadlift. How high depends on the length of your limbs, but they should never be below your knees like when hitting parallel on the Squat."

You want to initiate the movement sitting high with you hips.  

Your position needs to be in a quarter squat position.  It is a much stronger position.  

Low hip position places you more in a squat postion, a weaker postion.  



Gazhole said:


> If your hips are high, your legs are straighter,



You are in a quater squat position, the stronger position. 

You can quarter squat more than you half squat. 



Gazhole said:


> and you'll be using 100% lower back.



Only if you do it wrong by locking your legs out and turning it into a stiff leg deadlift.  



Gazhole said:


> The bar will be further away from your legs decreasing the amount of leverage you can use.



Only if you do it wrong. 



Gazhole said:


> Its also a bad cue to pull straight up and keep your head down - two things which will cause a fail.



If you pull the bar straight up, your doing it wrong.  

You want to begin the lift with you head in about a forward position. 

You pull the bar up and back.   

As you do so, pull your the head back.  Doing so, minimizes rounding your back. 



Gazhole said:


> If your hips are lower, you're in a much better position to use your bodyweight to pull the bar backwards, you can use more glute and leg power, and the bar is closer to you.



Again, lower hip position in a deadlift places you in a weaker position.  

A high hip position, places you in a stronger position.  

*Conventional Deadlifts*

The muscle firing sequence for a conventional dealifter is Back-Leg-Back.  

The lower back breaks the weight off the floor. 

"Now, although most people probably think the initial drive off the floor is all legs, it is clearly done primarily by the back."

"Kuc, Kazmaier, and Anello use the back first..."

"Biomechancis Of Powerlifting--The Deadlift," Dr Tom McLaughlin-Director/Biomechanics Labratory/Auburn University/PLUSA 7/81) 

"During heavy weight lifting, the leg-lift method does not appear to be the preferred strategy and may not be even possible (18???20). ...when an individuals near their maximal deadlift capacity, the back-lift strategy appears to be the most commonly used technique." 

Kinematic Analysis of the Powerlifting Style Squat and the Conventional Deadlift During Competition. Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research: 
December 2009 - Volume 23 - Issue 9 - pp 2574-2580

Also, the hamstrings are heavily involed in moving the weight off the floor with a conventional deadlift. 

*Sumo Deadlift*

The muscle firing sequence in a sumo deadlift is Legs-Back.  A sumo deadlift calls the quad more into play.    

Biomechanical Analysis of The Deadlift. Jounal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 1996

*High Hip Position*

Regardless which style you chose (Conventional or Sumo), you want to place youself in a quarter squat position.  This is a much stonger position.

To do that you need to have a high hip position.  



Gazhole said:


> You can also lean back more and drive through your heels.



You're not going to lean back any more if you begin with a low hip position.  



Gazhole said:


> It automatically brings your head up. It's a stronger position plain and simple.



A low hip postion is a weaker position.  

You will end up pulling less weight. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Nov 6, 2011)

Gazhole said:


> Also, i'm confused. Bolton drops his hips immediately before he commences lifting in the video you posted. The hell are you talking about?



*Bolton's Hip Position*

Bolton has a high hip position.  This allows him start the lift from a quarter squat postion. 

*Dropping Hips*

Bolton drops from a straight leg position to a quarter squat, high hip position, to start the lift. 

*Stretch Reflex*

Bolton's pumps his legs/drops to some extent evokes the stretch reflex.  

This allows him to generate more force in coming up with the weight. 

Many lifter employ some type of pumping/drop prior to "lift off" in the deadlift. 

I utilize the same principle in a slightly different manner with my deadlift.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## fufu (Nov 7, 2011)

I think what is being said in this thread is that you don't want your hips too high (i.e. knees fully extended), and you don't want them too low (like a bottom squat position).

I think there is a misinterpretation of what low hips means. When I think "low hips" for a deadlift, I am not thinking a bottom squat position. I think this:






YouTube Video











He shoots his hips down and forward to commence the lift. Sure, his hips are much higher than a bottom squat position, but that is because low hips in a deadlift are higher than low hips in a squat because of the mechanics of the lift. 

For the sake of practicality, I RARELY see anyone deadlift with hips too low. It doesn't take too long to self correct and understand that the deadlift is a pulling exercise primarily with the hips and not a pressing exercise primarily with the knees. People will naturally self-correct when they get to heavier weight.

But, I do see a TON of people squat with their hips too high and they really don't get behind the bar enough and engage their glutes. 

So yeah, telling people to get their hips lower in the deadlift is pretty good advice, because chances are, their hips are too high.

High hips, low hips...it is all relative to the deadlift position in which the hips are going to be in a generally high position compared to other lifts.


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## ThreeGigs (Nov 8, 2011)

How about just going by knee angle? If your thighs are at 90 degrees to your shins, your hips are too low. From the videos it looks like about a 120 degree knee angle that both lifters are using once they begin to pull hard on the bar.


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## Cork (Nov 8, 2011)

Kenny Croxdale specified "low hips".  Sure it's a relative term, but Kenny says "quarter squat position", which is proper and I fully agree with him.

Here is a figure from Starting Strength showing optimal starting position.


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## fqqs (Nov 9, 2011)

i think the position in the image above is impossible to achieve in my case. i have too short arms. if I wanted to keep tights as high I would position torso just above parallel, but I think it wouldnt be the strongest position, definitely.

I tend to agree with Gazhole and I think low hip position will be the strongest for me. (just above parallel).  but it is only my thought

Bodybuilder Johnnie Jackson 765 lb. deadlifts - YouTube


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## VolcomX311 (Nov 9, 2011)

great discussion.


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## CowPimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Keeping your hips low is not necessarily optimal.  It is, however, less stressful on the lumbar spine.  I do pretty close to a stiff-legged deadlift myself because my quads suck ass.  My glutes/hamstrings are far more powerful, and being in more of a "stiff-leg" position allows me to require more force production about the hip joint, utilizing my more powerful muscle groups more effectively.

The things is, if your hips get too low, then your shins will HAVE to angle forward.  You don't want this, as it requires you move the bar around them to get it all the way up.  That ideal image that was posted is great.  However, not all people have the same limb proportions, so you can't expect everyone to be able to achieve that exact position while maintaining equilibrium.

Here's how I see it: If you can't keep your shins upright and/or you generate more knee flexion than hip flexion, then your hips are too low.  If you can't keep your spine in a neutral position, then your hips are too high.


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