# Fiber and calories



## Tom_B (Sep 24, 2004)

I use Fitday to keep track of everythign I eat, so when I went out and bought some Fibre 1 I had to make a new custom food thingy.
anyways when I put in the nutrition information it would allow me to have it as 110 calories (what the box says), it said it should noly be 53 calories because you have to follow this formula to calculate calories:
fat x 9, Protein x 4 and (carbs-fiber) x 4
So are you not suppos to be counting calories from fiber?
lol hope that made sense


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## bulletproof1 (Sep 24, 2004)

you sure you got the serving size correct?


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## aggies1ut (Sep 24, 2004)

I would count the calories from fiber, but would not count the grams in terms of overall carb content. For example, if a serving has 10 grams of carbs overall and 5 grams of fiber, I would only count that as 5 overall carbs. However, I would calculate the calories as 10 grams*4 cal/gram=40 calories.


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## sara (Sep 24, 2004)

I would count the Fiber from any grains, cereals, bread.. not veggies


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## Tom_B (Sep 24, 2004)

positive I got the serving size right,
Per:1/2 a cup
Calories 110
fat 1G
Carbs 24G (15G of fiber)
Protein 2G

anyone else have this problem with fitday?


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## dianas05 (Sep 24, 2004)

Yup, I do as well. I don't know why it's doing that.


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## LAM (Sep 24, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> I use Fitday to keep track of everythign I eat, so when I went out and bought some Fibre 1 I had to make a new custom food thingy.
> anyways when I put in the nutrition information it would allow me to have it as 110 calories (what the box says), it said it should noly be 53 calories because you have to follow this formula to calculate calories:
> fat x 9, Protein x 4 and (carbs-fiber) x 4
> So are you not suppos to be counting calories from fiber?
> lol hope that made sense



the fitday formula is correct.  you don't count fiber


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## dianas05 (Sep 24, 2004)

Then the nutrional label on the box is incorrect?


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## aggies1ut (Sep 24, 2004)

Actually now that I think about it, it does make sense to not count the calories from fiber, in addition to not counting it in the overall carb content. Of course I am anal though, and usually count every little thing.


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## LAM (Sep 24, 2004)

dianas05 said:
			
		

> Then the nutrional label on the box is incorrect?



yes, technically it is incorrect...


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## dianas05 (Sep 24, 2004)

That's weird.


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## Vieope (Sep 24, 2004)

dianas05 said:
			
		

> That's weird.


_Not really, every fiber has calories, the problem is the intestin that can´t digest it. If we could digest anything, I would bulk with some batteries right now.  

I wonder why a "fitness" product that could benefit to have fewer calories in their product, would make such a bad mistake in the label. _


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## Pirate! (Sep 24, 2004)

When fiber is broken down, it ranges from 0 to 2 calories per gram--depending on what type of fiber it is. It is better to just not count fiber towards your carbs or calories. Just consider it filler.


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## Tom_B (Sep 24, 2004)

hmm so I'm really only eat 2540 calories a day? I eat like 60 grams of fibre a day, so I need to eat more to get the 2800 calorie mark..fun lol
Thanks for everyone's help


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## Vieope (Sep 24, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> Thanks for everyone's help


_I always like a personalized "thank you post"  _


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## CowPimp (Sep 24, 2004)

You don't need to count fiber.


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## dianas05 (Sep 25, 2004)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _Not really, every fiber has calories, the problem is the intestin that can´t digest it. If we could digest anything, I would bulk with some batteries right now.
> 
> I wonder why a "fitness" product that could benefit to have fewer calories in their product, would make such a bad mistake in the label. _



I know about the fiber, but I was talking about the label being weird.


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## kick_boxer (Sep 27, 2004)

Tom b how do you get 60 grams of fiber a day? you must be mad supplementing...


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## Tom_B (Sep 28, 2004)

lol nope, I don't even mean to get in that much, I aim for liek 38G a day.
My main sources are, my Fiber 1 15-30 grams of Fiber depending if I have 1/2 a cup or a cup. There's 8 grams of fiber in 1 of my oroweat carb counting tortillas wraps and I usually have 2 of those a day and then I get about 10-12G through fruits and Vegetables. And everything else is made outta the oatmeal, Brown Rice, Low carb soy milk etc.
I also meant to ask if that's way too much fiber in one day since the recommended amount is 38G for an adult male.


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## Emma-Leigh (Sep 28, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> I also meant to ask if that's way too much fiber in one day since the recommended amount is 38G for an adult male.


Not at all - your fibre intake is much more appropriate as the 'recommended daily intake' is horribly inadequate... Think of the 'recommended intake' as your absolute MINIMUM required intake - and 2x or even up to 3x (ok... so 3x may be a little excessive...  )this amount is fine. Anyway - you can get away with a lot more than what they say.

But just remember that fibre can decrease absorption of any foods or vitamins/minerals you take in at the same time (eg: it can decrease the absorption of fats, decrease the absorption of calcium, decrease the absorption of some carotenoids etc) so if you do take these in tablet form make sure you do not do it at a 'high fibre' meal.


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## ncgirl21 (Sep 28, 2004)

So, enlighten me, I eat fiber one everyday and I count half a cup as 60 calories- how much is it REALLY!!! Now I'm pissed- I don't think they should post it like that on the box, if you want to subtract the fiber calories than fine, but they need to post it the regular way IMO.  So, actually all bran would be better for you- right?


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## BulkMeUp (Sep 28, 2004)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> But just remember that fibre can decrease absorption of any foods or vitamins/minerals you take in at the same time (eg: it can decrease the absorption of fats, decrease the absorption of calcium, decrease the absorption of some carotenoids etc) so if you do take these in tablet form make sure you do not do it at a 'high fibre' meal.


Grrrrrr.. this is something i 'knew' but didnt 'realise'. I have oats in the morning with a scoop of protein powder and 1tbsp olive oil and a vitamin pill. I guess i now need to rethink this as absorption levels would be affected.


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## Tom_B (Sep 28, 2004)

ncgirl21 said:
			
		

> So, enlighten me, I eat fiber one everyday and I count half a cup as 60 calories- how much is it REALLY!!! Now I'm pissed- I don't think they should post it like that on the box, if you want to subtract the fiber calories than fine, but they need to post it the regular way IMO. So, actually all bran would be better for you- right?


It says on the box half a cup is 60 calories for yours? for mine it says it's 110 calories, I posted all the nutriotn facts earlier in the post


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## Tom_B (Sep 28, 2004)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Not at all - your fibre intake is much more appropriate as the 'recommended daily intake' is horribly inadequate... Think of the 'recommended intake' as your absolute MINIMUM required intake - and 2x or even up to 3x (ok... so 3x may be a little excessive...  )this amount is fine. Anyway - you can get away with a lot more than what they say.
> 
> But just remember that fibre can decrease absorption of any foods or vitamins/minerals you take in at the same time (eg: it can decrease the absorption of fats, decrease the absorption of calcium, decrease the absorption of some carotenoids etc) so if you do take these in tablet form make sure you do not do it at a 'high fibre' meal.


Ok good, wasn't sure  if that was too much, I started too notice how much iw as ataken in when i found out fiber creates a resitence to insulin. How long roughly does it take for you body to become resitante to insulin?


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## Tom_B (Sep 28, 2004)

BulkMeUp said:
			
		

> Grrrrrr.. this is something i 'knew' but didnt 'realise'. I have oats in the morning with a scoop of protein powder and 1tbsp olive oil and a vitamin pill. I guess i now need to rethink this as absorption levels would be affected.


lol same with me! for every meal I have 10 grams of fiber (except breakfast) give, or take and I've been taking my vitamins with a meal that has like 20 grams of fiber.


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## ncgirl21 (Sep 28, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> It says on the box half a cup is 60 calories for yours? for mine it says it's 110 calories, I posted all the nutriotn facts earlier in the post




Hell Yeah and I'm pissed   .  It says for 1/2 cup is 60 calories.


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## sara (Sep 28, 2004)

So, eating lentils may slow the absorption of calcium pills?


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## Emma-Leigh (Sep 28, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> Ok good, wasn't sure  if that was too much, I started too notice how much iw as ataken in when i found out fiber creates a resitence to insulin. How long roughly does it take for you body to become resitante to insulin?


 Fibre does not cause insulin resistance, infact, it helps prevent insulin resistance.

Insulin resistance is decrease in the sensitivity of your tissues (eg: muscles) to insulin. This is usually related to a decrease in number of insulin receptors on your cells due to 'bombardment' of cells with constantly high insulin levels. It is usually caused by things such as poor diet (high sugars, high saturated fats), bad lifestyle habits (no exercise etc), diseases/illnesses (like increased cortisol seen in cushings, some androgen cancers which alter hormone levels etc) and to a certain extent, genetics. It means you need MORE insulin for your muscles/body to respond to rises in blood glucose which puts extra stress on your pancreatic islets (where insulin is secreted) and can eventually (in some people) lead to type II diabetes. It also means you constantly have high glucose and high insulin levels in your blood, which is not good news for your health (high blood glucose can lead to lots of things like increased risk of stroke/coronary heart disease etc and high insulin will perpetuate your insulin resistance cycle...

This is not caused by fibre!

Fibre is really benificial to the body, especially in terms of your cardiovascular system (it decreases cholesterol - both total cholesterol and the 'bad' cholesterol and decreases your risk of cardiovascular disease) and intestinal system (it decreases your risk of intestinal/colon cancers)...

In terms of diet it helps decrease the GI/GL of your meals (which decreases your insulin release and gives you a more stable blood glucose and blood insulin levels - which DECREASES your risk of insulin resistance), promotes satiety (both through 'bulk' undigested fibre and through the effect of the soluble fibre on your satiety centres in your brain) and increases the thermogenic potential of a meal (it takes more energy to extract energy from high fibre foods).

Eat up!


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## Emma-Leigh (Sep 28, 2004)

sara said:
			
		

> So, eating lentils may slow the absorption of calcium pills?



Yes, to a certain extent... It will also alter your absorption of calcium because lentils are high(ish) in both zinc and iron (iron, zinc and fibre will all decrease calcium absorption).

Calcium is best taken a few times during the day - as your body can not cope with large doses. So try first thing in the am, once during the day and last thing at night. Taking them away from high fibre meals, with a milk/dairy product, or with magnesium pills (magnesium helps absorption) will help.

Also make sure you are taking calcium citrate as this has the best bioavailability (it has the best absorption and utilisation rates in your body).


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## sara (Sep 28, 2004)

Yes, I'm taking Calcium Citrate and Magnesium pills 
one pill in the morning with my breakfast, and one with lunch
The problem is all my meals contain some fiber
I tried taking calcium at night and my muscles are sore the next day


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## Emma-Leigh (Sep 29, 2004)

sara said:
			
		

> Yes, I'm taking Calcium Citrate and Magnesium pills
> one pill in the morning with my breakfast, and one with lunch


 Great! How much calcium is in the pills? I usually suggest supplimenting with 1000 to 1500mg, especially if you are not getting a lot of calcium in your diet...



> The problem is all my meals contain some fiber


Then try to take them away from meals - like first thing in the morning before your breakfast and then at some stage during the day when you are not eating.



> I tried taking calcium at night and my muscles are sore the next day


  I have honestly never heard of calcium causing muscle soreness and taking them last thing at night is really the best time to take them... Is there any way it could have been something else?


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## Tom_B (Sep 29, 2004)

so taking your calcium pills are best right before bed? how come easier absorbtion?


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## sara (Sep 29, 2004)

It is recommended on the label to take it with food.. oats doesnt have that much fiber  in it so, taking in my calcium with oats is ok.. I just need to work on my lunch and the fiber.. oh I can't live without eating my fiber!!! maybe I'll try taking in calcium with my PWO meal


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## Emma-Leigh (Sep 30, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> so taking your calcium pills are best right before bed? how come easier absorbtion?


It is best to spread your calcium out during the day (small frequent intakes, taken away from meals, especially meals with fibre in them). This result in a higher % of the calcium being absorped and a higher, more stable blood calcium level. 

The next best option is either as soon as you get up and last thing at night OR just last thing at night. This is because of the pulsitility of parathyroid hormone (an important hormone in calcium regulation which is involved in causing bone resportion) follows what is known as a diurnal rhythm - the concentration peaks at night.  So, by taking calcium at night you help supress this.


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## Tom_B (Sep 30, 2004)

ok thanks Emma and your book of knowledge


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## sara (Sep 30, 2004)

Why then on the calcium pacakge they recommend to take it with meals?


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## Emma-Leigh (Sep 30, 2004)

sara said:
			
		

> Why then on the calcium pacakge they recommend to take it with meals?


Some foods can increase the absorption of calcium (such as dairy products).

But I am not sure...  Is there anything else in it?


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## sara (Sep 30, 2004)

Emma-Leigh, I'm not sure what you mean by is there anything else in it? anything else in what? the calcium pill?


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## Emma-Leigh (Oct 1, 2004)

sara said:
			
		

> Emma-Leigh, I'm not sure what you mean by is there anything else in it? anything else in what? the calcium pill?



Yes - is there anything else in the calcium pill besides calcium citrate? (eg: Other vitamins or minerals).

I still say that calcium is best absorbed between meals.... This is because there is nothing inhibiting absorption - There is no fibre, iron, phytic or oxalic acids, fats (high fat content in the gut will decrease absorption) or *lots* of protein (although protein increases absorption, especially some amino acids, very high protein foods can decrease absorption - confusing!!  ). Your stomach is also more acidic between meals (although you would think it was the other way round) and calcium is better absorbed when in an acidic environment (which is why calcium citrate is the best form of calcium - it is acidic).... So the only reason I can think of for them suggesting you take it with meals is because there might be something else in them...?


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## sara (Oct 1, 2004)

Emma-Leigh, Here is the Calcium Citrate info that I'm taking: 

*Supplement Facts:*
Serving Size: 2 Tablets
Two Tablets Contain - % Daily Value:
Vitamin D 250 IU - 62%, - Vitamin B6 10 mg - 500%, Calcium 500 mg - 50%, Magnesium 80 mg - 20%, Zinc 10 mg - 66%, Copper 1 mg - 50%, Manganese 1 mg - 50%, Boron 1 mg - *.

*Daily Value not established.

*Ingredients:*
Calcium Citrate, Cellulose Gel, Magnesium Oxide, Talc, Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, Croscarmellose Sodium, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Magnesium Stearate, Titanium Dioxide (artificial color), Zinc Oxide, Sodium Borate, Manganese, Gluconate, Cupric Gluconate, Vitamin D3, Polyethylene Glycol, Triethyl Citrate, Polysorbate 80, Carnauba Wax


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## Emma-Leigh (Oct 2, 2004)

sara said:
			
		

> Emma-Leigh, Here is the Calcium Citrate info that I'm taking:



Right... Well: 

*Ingredients:*
Calcium Citrate = Good (calcuim). 
Cellulose Gel = Binder and filler.
Magnesium Oxide = This is fine. Although Mg Acetate is a better form of Mg...
Talc = magnesium silicate.. Basically a filler. 
Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose = binding and coating agent.
Croscarmellose Sodium = Disintergrant (helps the tablet disintergrate after you take it).
Pyridoxine Hydrochloride = Vit B6.
Magnesium Stearate = Binder and sweetener... and a sneaky name for sugar (compressable sugar).
Titanium Dioxide (artificial color) =  White colouring and coating agent.
Zinc Oxide = Fine (Zinc).
Sodium Borate = Boron.. The jury is still out on the long term effects of supplimenting with a heavy metal, so I would be a little cautious. 
Manganese Gluconate = Fine.
Cupric Gluconate = Another name for Copper. 
Vitamin D3 = Good. 
Polyethylene Glycol = Not sure why this is in here.. It can help with metabolism and distribution in drugs.
Triethyl Citrate = Coating agent...?? I think...
Polysorbate 80 = ??
Carnauba Wax = Hardener.

Hmmm... There is an awfull lot of 'junk' in these... and I don't know enough about all of the products to say whether or not some of them are the reason why you would need to take the tablets with food. Although it is likely...

Anyway, I would stick to what the label says, just incase (And maybe just keep an eye out for a better brand)...


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## sara (Oct 2, 2004)

Thanks for the great info on my calcium pills that I'm taking


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## sara (Oct 2, 2004)

I actually tried to look for the "take with food" and the calcium citrate that I'm using doesn't say that on the label.. unlike the carbonate I used before


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## dianas05 (Oct 2, 2004)

Sara, why don't you take a natural or an organic supplement? No fillers or other unnecessary ingredients.


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## sara (Oct 2, 2004)

diana, I'm not going to be anal on everything.. I used to be


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## Emma-Leigh (Oct 2, 2004)

sara said:
			
		

> I actually tried to look for the "take with food" and the calcium citrate that I'm using doesn't say that on the label.. unlike the carbonate I used before



*light bulb* Ahhhh... Was it something like 'Tums' you were taking before??

Because this form of calcium carbonate is used as an antacid, and if you take this on an empty stomach the effects only last a short while (due to the acid in the stomach)... so they suggest you take this with food to prolonge the effects.


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## sara (Oct 2, 2004)

No, it was the same kirkland brand of Calcium... But it was Calcium Carbonate instead of Citrate


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## Jodi (Oct 4, 2004)

sara said:
			
		

> diana, I'm not going to be anal on everything.. I used to be


Sara, this is the one thing you SHOULD be anal about.  Go to Sprouts and get the Nature's Plus Cal/Mag.  It's strictly Calcium Citrate and Mag.  Nothing else.  That stuff at Costco is garbage.


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## sara (Oct 4, 2004)

So if I take the Natural Cal/Mag pill from sprouts, there is no need to take extra magnesium pills?


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## dianas05 (Oct 4, 2004)

I agree with Jodi!


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## Jodi (Oct 4, 2004)

sara said:
			
		

> So if I take the Natural Cal/Mag pill from sprouts, there is no need to take extra magnesium pills?


Yup.


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## Emma-Leigh (Oct 4, 2004)

sara said:
			
		

> So if I take the Natural Cal/Mag pill from sprouts, there is no need to take extra magnesium pills?


How much is in the pills...??


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## Jodi (Oct 4, 2004)

The calcium is 1G of cal citrate and the mag is 800mg.


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## sara (Oct 4, 2004)

Jodi, How many pills would I need to take daily?


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## Jodi (Oct 4, 2004)

1 serving is 2 pills.


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## sara (Oct 4, 2004)

So I'll need 4 pills which will equal to 1200 Mg of calcium?


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## Jodi (Oct 4, 2004)

Umm no.  2 pills per day which equals 1G of calcium and 800mg mag


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## sara (Oct 4, 2004)

Then how many pills do I need?


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## Jodi (Oct 4, 2004)

2


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## sara (Oct 4, 2004)

ok. I need to go look for the pills.. How much is the bottle?


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