# Ok to substitute leg extensions for BB lunges?



## studen77 (Aug 20, 2006)

Ok, my leg routine I think has gotten stale as I'm not getting gains anymore..I want to keep squats a permanent staple of it, yet I can substitute other exercises

BB Lunges give me a great burn, they're very exhausting (I do them with a 110 lbs currently) and they give my legs a great look..plus they work everything..quads, hams, glutes, the whole nine

I just wanna find something similar that is just as effective..leg extensions to me seem ..well..isolated. 

anyone?


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## PWGriffin (Aug 20, 2006)

studen77 said:


> Ok, my leg routine I think has gotten stale as I'm not getting gains anymore..I want to keep squats a permanent staple of it, yet I can substitute other exercises
> 
> BB Lunges give me a great burn, they're very exhausting (I do them with a 110 lbs currently) and they give my legs a great look..plus they work everything..quads, hams, glutes, the whole nine
> 
> ...




leg extensions suck

Squats and all the variations, step ups, lunges etc.


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## P-funk (Aug 20, 2006)

agree


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## Trouble (Aug 20, 2006)

Either one of you, P or PW, explain why this is the case.  Its an apples and oranges situation.  This person needs an understand why leg extensions aren't very effective as a combination of various lunge and squat movements.


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## PWGriffin (Aug 20, 2006)

Trouble said:


> Either one of you, P or PW, explain why this is the case.  Its an apples and oranges situation.  This person needs an understand why leg extensions aren't very effective as a combination of various lunge and squat movements.



Um....P would be better at this, but here goes nothing.


Leg extensions isolate the quads and if I'm not mistaken, put quite a load on the knees....but even if you never have/had the first knee problem...I find them a waste of time...as on leg day I am trying to do more than just tax my quads....there are hip adductors/abductors, and the huge posterior chain.  So with exercises such as lunges you can get the same work done for your quads while also working a large number of other muscles in the process.  

More bang for your buck.  

If you are already doing squats and want another quad dominant movement, I highly recommend lunges.


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## Trouble (Aug 20, 2006)

Since Studen77 is wanting variety, how about naming a few of the many types of lunges, PW?

(BTW, that was a good answer in the previous post)

Patrick might still want to add a bit; these moves are synergistic to squat performance.  Good to know why they are so helpful for this lift (it has to do with the spine/hip/knee/ankle-foot "pinned member" power transfer system).

This is P-funks area of expertise, not mine, per se.


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## P-funk (Aug 20, 2006)

you hit on some good things:

1) the leg extension is an open chain exercise which places a direct sheer force on the knee.  Not that there isn't a sheer force on the knee during deep squats, but, in the closed chain environment the tendons are protected in femoral over tibial movement rather then the opposite.

2) squatting, lunging and step up movements not only work the quads but also the ab/aductors and the hip extensors (most noteably the glutes).  This is vital to frontal plane stability of the femur and hip during ambulation (walking).  Most people have poor frontal plane stability due to weak glutes (espeically the glute medius and glute minimus, which abduct the hip and most noteably the posterior portion of the glute medius which also helpt to externally rotate the hip and prevent the femur from internally rotating and placing a valgus force at the knee).

3) squatting, lunging and step up movements help to work the VMO which helps stabilize the knee and prevent the patella from tracking laterally due to a tightened IT Band.

4) squatting, lunging and step up movements also work to strength the posterior chain.


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## P-funk (Aug 20, 2006)

types of lunges:
split squat (stationary lunges)
foreward lunges
backward lunges
foreward walking lunges
backward walking lunges
lateral lunges
lateral split squats (side stationary lunge)
zig zag lunges (aka skater lunges)
transverse plane lunges (requiring a pivot to a 45 degree angle behind you)
split squats with front leg on an aerobic step (this is to work through an extreme ROM and really hit the glutes and stabilizers like the VMO.  You need to work up to this type of ROM though.  aproach with caution)
lunge with foreward reach
lunge to balance (hip and knee come up flexed at 90 degreesl;foot dorsi flexed)


types of step ups:
step ups
lateral step ups
step ups with non-stepping leg coming up to hip flexion (90 degrees and hip and knee and foot dorsi flexed) balance position (great for runners)
transverse plane step up (see transverse plane lunge....start with a low step)

type of squats:
olypic back squat
power lifter squat
front squat
DB plie squat
DB front squat
trap bar squat/DL
single leg squat touch down (balance and reach)
single leg pistol squat
single leg squat standing on bench
bulgarian squat


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## Gazhole (Aug 21, 2006)

I gotta try me some lateral lunges/step ups next chance i get.


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## studen77 (Aug 21, 2006)

P-funk said:


> you hit on some good things:
> 
> 1) the leg extension is an open chain exercise which places a direct sheer force on the knee.  Not that there isn't a sheer force on the knee during deep squats, but, in the closed chain environment the tendons are protected in femoral over tibial movement rather then the opposite.
> 
> ...



Right....well, if I were a pre-med student, I'd know exactly what you're talking about!

Man I had no idea there were so many variations of the squat and lunge exercises! I don't think not one of the trainers at the la fitness i go to knows squat about any of them...none of them have impressive physiques either! They're just salespeople dressed in blue shirts - Some with fat guts and poor posture too!

Hmm..I'd like someone to show me the movements of all these variations..proper movements..


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## Trouble (Aug 21, 2006)

You can buy books that show you each movement.  Or you can do an online search.  There are quite a few strength-training websites that features many of these exercises, with serial photographs to demonstrate execution/form.

If you do the latter, why not post some links here, in a reply.  Helps makes these threads quite useful to the forum.


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## P-funk (Aug 21, 2006)

studen77 said:


> Right....well, if I were a pre-med student, I'd know exactly what you're talking about!
> 
> Man I had no idea there were so many variations of the squat and lunge exercises! I don't think not one of the trainers at the la fitness i go to knows squat about any of them...none of them have impressive physiques either! They're just salespeople dressed in blue shirts - Some with fat guts and poor posture too!
> 
> Hmm..I'd like someone to show me the movements of all these variations..proper movements..



okay sorry....

1) leg extensions place an unusual stress on the knee because you are moving your lower leg instead of your upper leg.  think about how we walk.....we push against the ground and our upper leg moves over the lower leg.  right?

2) squatting, lunging and step ups work not only the squats but also to help stabilize the hip through movement.

3) squatting, lunging and step up movements work on stabilizing the knee through movement.  Since movement happens in three dimensions and not just in one plane (like you get when you perform leg extensions).

4) squatting lunging and step up movements help to work the posterior chain (hamstrings, glutes, lower back) as well as the quads.


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## AKIRA (Aug 21, 2006)

Trouble said:


> You can buy books that show you each movement.  Or you can do an online search.  There are quite a few strength-training websites that features many of these exercises, with serial photographs to demonstrate execution/form.
> 
> If you do the latter, why not post some links here, in a reply.  Helps makes these threads quite useful to the forum.




I agree.

New variations of workouts, most particularly, deadlifts, I have gotten from this site or a googled search.  I suggest that when you do want to do a workout outside the norm, to start out with just your bodyweight to perfect the form before adding weight.

On a personal note, Lunges kick my ass too.  Whether it be DBs or BBs, they sure get me winded rather quickly, but keep me interested in working legs since, one, its hard, and two, its really not that common.  You said it yourself, the trainers at LA fitness hardly instruct such workouts.

Kinda makes me wonder how much better I automatically am at training versus most trainers..


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## Trouble (Aug 21, 2006)

P-funk said:


> 1) leg extensions place an unusual stress on the knee because you are moving your lower leg instead of your upper leg.  think about how we walk.....we push against the ground and our upper leg moves over the lower leg.  right?
> 
> 2) squatting, lunging and step ups work not only the squats but also to help stabilize the hip through movement.
> 
> ...



This is a great post - it is PURE GOLD!!

You wanna improve your squat stats??  

Read that sucker a few times, then drop back down to Patricks excellent list of lunges.

Now we got a thread that might be worthy of pinning if we can get webpage links to the listed movements.


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## Spud (Aug 21, 2006)

DB lunges are awesome! Not only does it hit your legs like crazy, but you get the additional core, shoulder, trap and forearm work too!


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## PWGriffin (Aug 21, 2006)

*sigh, I'm doing BB lunges tomorrow.  They are great...so great I hate doing them.


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## Action-Jackson (Aug 22, 2006)

DB Lunges nearly kill me. After three sets, I'm fucking beat. Go for it.


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## Dale Mabry (Aug 22, 2006)

IMO, leg extensions aren't all that bad, but it would depend on where you are lagging.  If your quads are lagging, I would see no problem with isolating them with leg extensions, providing you eliminate the bottom 10 degrees of the movement.  Do they even remotely replace lunges?  Hell no.  Chances are, your hammies are lagging so you should find something that hits them.  I am all for compound movements, but there is often-times a need to isolate a muscle because the compound movements just don't hit it well enough, specifically if you are posturally fucked.  This is why assistance exercises are useful.  As I have said, that is typically the hammies/glutes,  but I would not be surprised to see someone lag in areas of the quadricep.  

As I don't care too much about BBing, I will say that one highly neglected movement wrt performance is hip flexion.  Try and think of an instance where hip flexion is not eccentric in nature in compound movements. 

Now that is the last ghey BBer answer I am giving, back to performance for me.


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