# Gyno flare up on Test P and Tren Ace Cycle - Help Please



## OneWheyOrAnother (Sep 23, 2010)

Hey,

Since nobody is responding to my other thread anymore, I figured I would start a new one.

So I am taking the following doses, and I am just finishing week 3 today.

Test P @ 80mg ED
Tren A @ 40mg ED

HCG @ 500iu weekly

Arimidex @ 1mg ED (yes EVERY DAY)

And in the last 4-5 days, a small lump is starting to grow under my right nipple despite using Arimidex. Everywhere I had read that prolactin needs estrogen in order to convert to prolactin, and I figure I have that under control but the gyno issue is still getting worse, a little bit every day.

I don't have any Cabergoline, but I think I can possibly get some. Do you guys think could be a prolactin problem ? 

I figured using such a high dose of Adex would help me out.... I know my Adex is legit.... 

I have also read that HCG can create estrogen directly through other means than aromatization. So it could be the HCG as well....

Thoughts please !!!


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## Shadowcam (Sep 23, 2010)

You need letro and caber when running tren!


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## BillHicksFan (Sep 23, 2010)

I ran tren/test for 8 weeks with no signs of gyno, proviron seemed to have worked for me to prevent gyno however I dosed vitamin B6 at 200mg per day as that reduces prolactin and I made sure that I had caber and letro on hand incase I ran into trouble.

My advise would be to get some letro and caber asap and start taking 200-400mg of vit B6 immediately but I'm no expert, I've just researched this particular cycle.

When you get your gyno sorted you may want to change to aromasin.


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## pyes (Sep 23, 2010)

You may want to pull out the letro and aromasin. Too bad you cannot try nolva as you are on a 19nor


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Sep 23, 2010)

Does anybody have any caber on hand that they can sell to me?

Also, how will Aromasin help with prolactin ?


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Sep 23, 2010)

What kind of dosing should I use on the caber ?


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## SUPERFLY1234 (Sep 23, 2010)

i had the same problems when i ran test p and tren a, it started happening toward the end of the cycle. letro help it out a lot.


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Sep 23, 2010)

SUPERFLY1234 said:


> i had the same problems when i ran test p and tren a, it started happening toward the end of the cycle. letro help it out a lot.



How did you dose it?


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## slimshady95 (Sep 23, 2010)

chronicelite said:


> Does anybody have any caber on hand that they can sell to me?
> 
> Also, how will Aromasin help with prolactin ?


 Good luck with that silly ass question IMO.......


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## pimprn (Sep 23, 2010)

ok listen up i researched this ok:
NUMBER 1 WTF ARE YOU THINKING TREN WITH JUST ADEX!!!!! its a 19nor get some fkn prami or cabar ok. Look at the CEM sponsor and order a bottle of prami EASY! Then Up your dose of adex once you suffice the gyno everyone is different and i do not know the compound well enough to help you out on dosing. Im saying to use ur adex cause u have some letro is very potent and will get rid of atleast 98% of your estrogen. So your prami and adex ok bro!


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Sep 24, 2010)

pimprn said:


> ok listen up i researched this ok:
> NUMBER 1 WTF ARE YOU THINKING TREN WITH JUST ADEX!!!!! its a 19nor get some fkn prami or cabar ok. Look at the CEM sponsor and order a bottle of prami EASY! Then Up your dose of adex once you suffice the gyno everyone is different and i do not know the compound well enough to help you out on dosing. Im saying to use ur adex cause u have some letro is very potent and will get rid of atleast 98% of your estrogen. So your prami and adex ok bro!



Yeah unfortunately I am waiting for my caber in the mail..... because my supplier dropped the ball and "ran out" of caber. I now have a second lump starting as well on the same side. This is the worst case of gyno I have ever had.


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## heavyiron (Sep 24, 2010)

Up the Arimidex to 1mg every 12 hours. AI's reduce E2 and Progesterone.


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Sep 24, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> Up the Arimidex to 1mg every 12 hours. AI's reduce E2 and Progesterone.



Wow thanks for the recommendation. I have never heard of this before. Hopefully this will help until my Caber arrives.\

The thing is I don't understand is the below statement.



> According to (Clin Biochem 2001 Nov;38(Pt 6):596-607), prolactin only has a stimulatory effect on gynecomastia in the prescence of high circulating estrogen levels. Testosterone which aromotizes to estrogen caused a cause of increased prolactin according to (Acta Endocrinol (Copenh) 1984 Feb;105(2):167-72). In the same study, Clomid (clomiphene) and Nolva (tamoxifen) showed a reduction in the man’s high levels of prolactin. There is no research evidence that I have found, that points to true breast development developing with just prolactin or progesterone alone or caused by non-aromotizing steroids, without any high circulating estrogen levels. Estrogen must be at high enough levels to work synergistically with high levels of prolactin or progesterone, to cause breast development and lactation.



Why am I still having issues if I am dosing such a heavy amount of Adex already lol.....

Could it be the HCG ? I have heard that HCG can cause estrogen directly without aromatization. If that is indeed the issue, what is the suggestion then?

Also below



> The only anti-estrogen I wouldn’t recommend for combatting this gyno  is Nolva (tamoxifen) because in (J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2003 Sep;86(3-5):461-7) they found progesterone receptor expression increased, while it decreased with other anti-aromatase inhibitors



So basically, what I am thinking... is that somehow there is enough estrogen floating around from the HCG that it is able to convert to prolactin or progesterone because at such a high dose of Adex, it just doesn't seem possible. Some people cringe at the thought of using 1mg of Adex ED.


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## unclem (Sep 24, 2010)

u wanted prami on the buy or sell i pm u did u get it? but i think u got good advice on here i think u have to make your decision brother. its your tits not anyone elses. dont put so much science behind everything , it complicates things more. like when they study new drugs they do a placebo and a drug study. and they no the science behind , but, how is it going to work on us, humans is wat there after. so make your final decision and stick with it. good luck.


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Sep 24, 2010)

unclem said:


> u wanted prami on the buy or sell i pm u did u get it? but i think u got good advice on here i think u have to make your decision brother. its your tits not anyone elses. dont put so much science behind everything , it complicates things more. like when they study new drugs they do a placebo and a drug study. and they no the science behind , but, how is it going to work on us, humans is wat there after. so make your final decision and stick with it. good luck.



Yeah I emailed that guy that you told me to. He doesnt seem to have either Caber or Prami. But I think he is looking for me, thanks for the efforts.


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## pimprn (Sep 24, 2010)

CEM bro i hope your tits go away.


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## heavyiron (Sep 24, 2010)

chronicelite said:


> Wow thanks for the recommendation. *I have never heard of this before.* Hopefully this will help until my Caber arrives.\


 
Its funny you say this since you quote exactly that in your post.

"_The only anti-estrogen I wouldn???t recommend for combatting this gyno is Nolva (tamoxifen) because in (J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2003 Sep;86(3-5):461-7) they found *progesterone receptor expression* increased, while it* decreased with other anti-aromatase inhibitors"* _



chronicelite said:


> The thing is I don't understand is the below statement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your Adex dose is not high for a male injecting aromatizing compounds. Only thread parrots that don't understand the science think the dose is high. 1mg Adex daily reduces E2 on average about 50% in males. The half life of adex also shortens in males. If you dose Adex every 12 hours you will likely get maximal E2 supression in about 7-10 days. Only labs can dial in your AI dose though.


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Sep 24, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> Its funny you say this since you quote exactly that in your post.
> 
> "_The only anti-estrogen I wouldn’t recommend for combatting this gyno is Nolva (tamoxifen) because in (J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2003 Sep;86(3-5):461-7) they found *progesterone receptor expression* increased, while it* decreased with other anti-aromatase inhibitors"* _
> 
> ...


*
Marry me ?*

Also wanted to add, I am on the 2nd day of my 4th week. I have kept my diet VERY clean and I just took my blood pressure.

123/73  

YAY !!!!!!! I am very happy with this cycle other than the gyno. I feel so healthy, my cardio is actually UP, I have no other noticeable sides. And the HCG is keeping my boys producing. I will try upping the dose to 1mg every 12 hours. Thanks again dude!

Also, being that this is the first time I have run Tren, I have nothing to compare it to but... it doesn't seem as if the Adex is messing with my strength yet....

I wish I could give you more REP


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## SUPERFLY1234 (Sep 24, 2010)

chronicelite said:


> How did you dose it?




i used .5mgs twice a day once every 12 hours. once gyno started getting better i dropped the dosage to .25mgs twice day. only sides i got from it was no sex drive


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Sep 24, 2010)

SUPERFLY1234 said:


> i used .5mgs twice a day once every 12 hours. once gyno started getting better i dropped the dosage to .25mgs twice day. only sides i got from it was no sex drive



Unfortunately my guy only have Letro in capsules rated at 2.5mg each haha..... so for now I think I will stick to Adex.

Ok so I just ordered some Prami from https://www.ir**-drag**.com 
And I paid for 1-3 business days shipping. So hopefully it will get here quickly. I have never even heard of Prami, any suggestions dosing until my Caber gets here?


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Sep 30, 2010)

Ok so... I think the Adex has stopped the GROWTH of the lump. Up to 2mg ED of Adex and so far no noticeable drop in strength. But I hope the Caber makes the size go down once it arrives, HURRY THE !@#$ UP !!!!

I have however upped my dose of Tren to 50mg ED and Var to 50mg ED. My Test P is now 100mg ED. So I think that is counteracting the low estrogen, because I am still feeling amazing.

My cardio is still not suffering at all. I have had ONE nightmare so far. No night sweats, no sleeping issues (thanks to a fat joint before bed). No bloating.

And now that I have just begun week 5, it seems like everything is peaking and my gains are through the roof every work out. I couldn't be happier with my cycle.
Slight loss of sex drive, but hopefully once my caber arrives that will help me out. 
HCG is keeping my boys going. Up to 207lbs now with no noticeable fat gain, in fact it seems like I am leaning out even more.

If TREN was a women, I would marry her. I LOVE YOU TREN <3 <3 <3



Just a follow up question. 

Since I am doing Test Prop, Anavar and Tren Ace. How long after my last injection should I begin my PCT?


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## heavyiron (Oct 1, 2010)

3-4 days


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Oct 1, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> 3-4 days



So which is it ? 3 or 4?


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## heatherallen (Oct 1, 2010)

hey man do you know of any sites how to make deca and supples


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Oct 5, 2010)

My first bout with night sweats last night. It was SOOOO FUNNY.
I slept like a baby, but I kept waking up because I was too hot, then I would remove my blanket and start freezing then put it back on and start sweating.

I think the reason it happened was because I had to switch to EOD for a few days while I traveled and it caused a bit of unstable blood levels but I am hoping by switching back to ED injections things should stabilize a bit.


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Oct 7, 2010)

I'd like to say. 

I think the Adex @ 2mg has finally kicked in, because my strength went down and the size of the lump has decreased a bit and it is no longer sensitive. Now, I'm just unsure of how to adjust my training to the loss of strength.... any suggestions?

Does loss of strength mean loss of muscle?


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## fredlabrute (Oct 7, 2010)

pyes said:


> You may want to pull out the letro and aromasin. Too bad you cannot try nolva as you are on a 19nor



Nolva simply doesn't aromatize into progesterone,i had gyno issues on a cycle of 750mg test E,600mg Eq and 500mg tren A,guess what, i took nolva at 40mg for 4 days and the symptoms were gone!!!And the dose of tren is very low,are you sure that's the compound causing the gyno?If there's no improvement after 2-3 days of taking nolva then stop it,cause usually it works fast!!!When evrything will be in check, up your AI dose!!!


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Oct 7, 2010)

fredlabrute said:


> Nolva simply doesn't aromatize into progesterone,i had gyno issues on a cycle of 750mg test E,600mg Eq and 500mg tren A,guess what, i took nolva at 40mg for 4 days and the symptoms were gone!!!And the dose of tren is very low,are you sure that's the compound causing the gyno?If there's no improvement after 2-3 days of taking nolva then stop it,cause usually it works fast!!!When evrything will be in check, up your AI dose!!!



That would simply depend on what is causing your gyno.....

I added in Anavar a few weeks into the cycle. But the problem started before I added in the Anavar.

I am running Test Prop and Tren Ace. I am taking Adex at 2mg ED now and the problem is starting to calm down. Before, when I was taking 1mg ED, it wasn't really helping. But now I feel my strength suffering, maybe I should up my dose of Anavar to help counteract that....

And I am pretty sure it's not an estrogen problem, because I have a lump on my left side (estrogen related) from a previous cycle, that is actually shrinking in size, while the one on the right, only until yesterday kept growing. So it has to be prolactin induced, otherwise it too would have been kept in check by the Adex.

The only other thing I can think of would be the HCG, but not one person on here has admitted that it could be the problem, so I have dismissed it. But my theory was, that HCG causes estrogen from aromatization and directly forms estrogen as well. So I figured there was JUST ENOUGH circulating estrogen from the HCG (dosed at 500iu EW) to fuel the progesterone, thus prolactin issue causing gyno. 

One time I got gyno on my right side from taking M1T... and I was dosing Nolva at 80mg ED and it didn't help WHATSOEVER. 
Another case of prolactin induced gyno.... although that lump eventually disappeared almost a year later.... 

My current doses are as follows.... 

Test Prop 100mg ED
Tren Ace 50mg ED
Anavar 60mg ED


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## theCaptn' (Oct 7, 2010)

looks to me like your shoulda stuck to pink magic and celltech


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## Dark Geared God (Oct 7, 2010)

Marquis du Gears said:


> looks to me like your shoulda stuck to pink magic and celltech


 beta-al inter-anally, with the magic shake diet


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## theCaptn' (Oct 7, 2010)

> Gyno flare up on Test P... 10-08-2010 04:48 AMchronicelite jerk


 
ouch! 

you know negging someone for giving their honest, heartfelt opinion, especially when creating a thread asking for it is especially bad karma.

Bad things can happen Buttercup.


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## jmorrison (Oct 7, 2010)

Chronicelite, not bashing you.  Your posts elsewhere seem to be pretty knowledgeable, but is that you in that avatar?  And if so is it an old pic?


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## theCaptn' (Oct 7, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> Chronicelite, not bashing you. Your posts elsewhere seem to be pretty knowledgeable, but is that you in that avatar? And if so is it an old pic?


 
sure, it was last year when he was 13


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## roastchicken (Oct 7, 2010)

fuck not this guy AGAIN...it is often quite insulting to be presented with that avatar.IT OFFENDS ME..


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## roastchicken (Oct 7, 2010)

ARE YOU LACTATING? if so can i have some?


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## Tesla (Oct 7, 2010)

roastchicken said:


> ARE YOU LACTATING? if so can i have some?


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Oct 7, 2010)

Fine, I'll put up a new pic tomorrow. That one is around 2 years old.... if it will make you all stop harassing me!


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## Dark Geared God (Oct 7, 2010)

roastchicken said:


> fuck not this guy AGAIN...it is often quite insulting to be presented with that avatar.IT OFFENDS ME..


 my avatar


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Oct 7, 2010)

I'm starting to get Tren dick....... fuck my life !

I got head from a girl yesterday, and then fucked a different girl tonight. Last night it took me forever to cum, and I only stayed hard because I took viagra. And today, I couldn't even cum and I kept losing my erection.

CABER GET HERE NOW  THIS IS EMBARRASSING !!!

If anyone can overnight me like 3 tabs, I would pay up the ass for them, not even joking... I'm a beast in the gym, but a bitch in the bed


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## jmorrison (Oct 7, 2010)

If thats you in the avi good job bro.


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Oct 7, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> If thats you in the avi good job bro.



Thanks bro, but I'm not feeling so manly right now. How long will it take for the Caber to fix me?


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## BillHicksFan (Oct 8, 2010)

Not calling you out but I'm just wondering why you happened to show your face when you were built like my lil' sister and now that you apparently look like the Hulk privacy becomes an issue?  
Anyway as for caber just order some from a research company, you could have received it weeks ago if you had have done so already, no need to sell your arse for it here unless you're into that kind of thing.


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## heavyiron (Oct 8, 2010)

billhicksfan said:


> not calling you out but i'm just wondering why you happened to show your face when you were built like my lil' sister and now that you apparently look like the hulk privacy becomes an issue?
> .


 

Lol!


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Oct 8, 2010)

BillHicksFan said:


> Not calling you out but I'm just wondering why you happened to show your face when you were built like my lil' sister and now that you apparently look like the Hulk privacy becomes an issue?



Yeah because back then I hadn't touched AAS, now I am a regular user and ****** of AAS. Can't be too careful. 
I'm not risking my security to please anybody.



BillHicksFan said:


> Anyway as for caber just order some from a research company, you could have received it weeks ago if you had have done so already, no need to sell your arse for it here unless you're into that kind of thing.



I had a hard time finding some caber actually that would ship to Canada. Especially since I heard that liquid caber is unstable and pretty much worthless. So I had to find tabs.... A lot harder than you think dude.


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## Dark Geared God (Oct 8, 2010)

Richard Gears said:


> Wow, Chronic went from a 12 yr old with pipe cleaner arms into an Arnold Protege. Good Job!


 
he went from a 12 year old girl to a semi-jerked man well done


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Oct 8, 2010)

I am really feeling the high doses of Adex now....

My joints are hurting badly in the gym. I feel lethargic 24/7..... And I'm not really making much as far as gains go in the gym anymore. I am considering cutting it short, and cruising on test for 4-6 weeks and allow myself to heal.

No point on staying on something as heavy as Tren if I can't enjoy the benefits of it.

How long do you all figure before I can start tapering down the Adex after I drop the Tren Ace and lower the Test Prop until I transition over to Cyp?


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