# Carb Cycling Diet



## Tom_B (Nov 13, 2004)

Well in about 2 weeks I'll be starting a mini cut , and I thought I'd give carb cycling a try. Here's my stats
Age:15
Male
Height: 5'8
Weight: 136.5 roughly

Anyways when I was reading up on carb cycling there was one thing that I didn't understand..if every day your suppos to eat a set amount of calories everyday, or having oyur calories changing everyday since all you'd change is the carbs. Well this diet is assuming that you eat a different amount of calories everyday, hope I chose right  
Also currently I don't have any Fishies but I'm gonna get some soon, what should I be looking for? I saw like salmon oil and cod liver oil but there was no nutrition facts on any of them so I'm in a complete lost. Well when I do get some I'll be taking about 20G of them a day, don't know how many pills that is so I haven't figured which meals I should have them with.

I'm gonna do 3 Low carb days, 3 Mod carb days and 1 High carb day hope thats right anyways here's the diet.

Mod Carb Day (Leg Day, Back/shoulder/Bi Day and 1 session of HIIT cardio will fall on these) :
Meal 1 - 1 scoop of whey
          - 1 package of thin rolled oats (to speed up digestion)
          - a little bit of crystal light

          *_30 minutes after, weights*
_
Post Workout - 2 scoops of whey
                   - 2 packages of thin rolled oats

Meal 2 - 1 scoop of whey
          - 1/3 of a cup of rolled oats
          - 1 TBS of Almond Butter

Meal 3 - 4 innerleafs of romain lettuce
         -  1/2 cup of Bean Meadley
         -  1 can of tuna
         - 2 TBSP of Lemon Juice
         - 2 TBSP of Vinegar

Meal 4 - Egg whites ( I think 8 or 6 ...I buy them already broken in 250ml cartons)
          - 1 TBSP of canoil oil
          - 1/4 of a cup of almonds

Meal 5 - 1 Oroweat Carb counting tortilla wrap
          - 1 cup of diced skinless chicken breast
          - 2-3 innerleafs of romain lettuce
          - 1/2 a can of tuna

Meal 6 - Egg Whites
          - 1 TBSP of canoil oil
          - 1/2 can of tuna

*Totals *-_ Calories 2300 (after I add the fishies)
            Fat - 73G after I add fishies (11G sat)
            Carbs - 136 G (30G of fiber , around 12-14G of sugar)
            Protein - 263G 

_High Carb Days (Will be a chest/Tri/Ab Day)

Will be the same expect I will add these
Post workout - will add an extra package of thin rolled oats.
Meal 2 - 1/2 a cup of fiber 1
Meal 3 - 1 cup of Brown rice
Meal 4 - 1/2 a cup of fiber 1
Meal 5- 1 cup of brown rice

New *Totals - *_Calories - 2974 
                   Fat - 80G (12G sat)
                  Carbs - 271G (65G of fiber , about 14G of sugar)
                  Protein  - 278G

_Low Carb Days (will be on 2 sessions of cardio and Pilates and on my off day)
Will be the same, except without the carbs!  

New *Totals* - _Calories - 1535
                   Fat - 59G (9G sat)
                   Carbs 17G (5G of fiber , about 10G of sugar)
                   Protein - 225G

_  Hope I understood carb cycling right  
For those of you that had the patientic to read all these any advice would be appreicated


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## Jodi (Nov 13, 2004)

What's with the canola oil?  Get rid of it and use the fish oil there.  You'll need 20 capsules per day.  Remember this doesn't doesn't need any additional fat other than the fish oil.

I think you are missing the point of the diet

No Carb day is No Carbs:  Protein/Veggies and Fish oil that is it
Low Carb Day: 1G of Carb per pound of body weight divided into 3 meals PLUS 1 sm. Fruit with  those carb meals AND your Protein/Veggies and Fish Oil
High Carb Day:  YOU DON"T COUNT YOUR CARB - Eat as many APPROVED carbs as you wish within 4 meals PLUS 1 small piece of fruit AND Protein/Veggies and Fish oil

I have a journal from last year when I carb cycled religiously.  Check out my meals and maybe that will help. http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=19648&highlight=Jodi But at 15 years old, why are you cutting?


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## Tom_B (Nov 14, 2004)

Thanks Jodi!  had a look at your journal and got a better understanding, but I still ahve a few more questions before attempting to re-make this diet 

So there's fish oil and fish capsules?   I only thought that there was fish capsules, I really have no idea about that stuff, but I'm going out for groceries tomorrow and I'll search around...how much fat do I want in them? Or is there even a difference between the brands?
Also is it alright if I don't include the fruit? Or is it in there for a specific reason, cause if not I'd rather just drop it all together.
Also I noticed in your journal you did a specific order of alternating your Low/Mod/High Carb days. Is this just because of your exercise routine or was it like that for a reason? I was planning on going Low/High/Low/Mod/Low/Mod/Mod or something around those lines.
Last question, if no additonal fats are required in this diet then how do I get my calories? I'm gonna be cutting around 2300 so if I took away the additional fats it'd lower my calories, alot. And I'm already going a little overboard with my protein so what do I do? Does that mean that I need to eat *alot* on my high carb days (which I still wanna count  I'm just not one that can't not count everything they ate fo the day)?
As for the why am I cutting at 15 part, I was 120lbs so I went of a bulk and now I'm kinda sick with eating so much so I'm gonna go on a mini cut and lower my bodyfat% a little bit more (thinking I'll be around 10% , I get it checked tues, last time I was at 8%) then I'll probably go on another lean bulk and gain about .25-.5 lbs a week, depending on what I look like after the mini cut.


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## BulkMeUp (Nov 15, 2004)

Jodi said:
			
		

> What's with the canola oil?  Get rid of it and use the fish oil there.  You'll need 20 capsules per day.  Remember this doesn't doesn't need any additional fat other than the fish oil.


I know fish oil would be the best, but would Olive oil be an acceptable substitute for fats?



			
				Jodi said:
			
		

> But at 15 years old, why are you cutting?


You tell him Jodi. At 15/5'8"/136 the boy wants to cut, inspite of being told not to do so (in his journal), and being told to stick to a bulk.


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## Tom_B (Nov 15, 2004)

Hey  I already said it's just a *mini* cut  I'll probably go on another lean bulk afterwards....


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## BulkMeUp (Nov 15, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> Hey  I already said it's just a *mini* cut  I'll probably go on another lean bulk afterwards....


ok ok ok..


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## Jodi (Nov 15, 2004)

Stick with the normal high/low/no plan.  Don't modify it until absolutely necessary.  You get Fish oil capsules.  it's much easier.

Olive oil is way better than canola oill.  Olive oil is not omega 3's thats why you need fish oil


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## jaim91 (Nov 16, 2004)

I have a feeling you're not going to be try to your high carb days. You will still restrict. It's supposed to be a cheat day, an anything goes day. A reward for sticking to the low/no days. ENJOY IT!! 

P.S. Do EFA have calories? carbs?


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## Emma-Leigh (Nov 16, 2004)

jaim91 said:
			
		

> I have a feeling you're not going to be try to your high carb days. You will still restrict.


Bump - High carb days are ment to be you eating carbohydrates in four of your meals to the point where you are 'psychologically and physiologically satisfied'... That means you DO NOT measure them... Just sit down with a tray of those apple-oatmeal cookies that Jodi posted the recipe for and consume! 

The point of the high carb days is to eat carbs to EXCESS! Not to a pre-measured point.

Leave the carb counting for your no/low carb days.



> P.S. Do EFA have calories? carbs?


EFA = Essential Fatty Acids. They are fats and therefore have 1g of fat per 1g (or 1000mg) tablet/liquid (no carbs or protein). So, they have 9 cals per gram.


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## Jodi (Nov 16, 2004)

No, a High carb day is NOT a cheat day with this diet.


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## Emma-Leigh (Nov 16, 2004)

Jodi said:
			
		

> No, a High carb day is NOT a cheat day with this diet.


...  Sorry, I didn't mean it to be like I was saying he should have a cheat - I said that he should eat carbs in his carb meals until he is 'satisfied'... That dies not mean he should eat until his kidneys hurt due to being squished from the bulk in his stomach...


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## Jodi (Nov 16, 2004)

LOL - Sorry, you posted right before me and I meant to quote Jaime.


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## Tom_B (Nov 16, 2004)

Jodi said:
			
		

> Stick with the normal high/low/no plan. Don't modify it until absolutely necessary. You get Fish oil capsules. it's much easier.
> 
> Olive oil is way better than canola oill. Olive oil is not omega 3's thats why you need fish oil


So go with high/low/no then repeat? What would I do if a weight trainin gday fell on a no carb day?

Also I went out a bought some fish oil capsules, oh my god there expensive  ...espically if I have to take 20 a day, that's too expensive for me. (there's only 60 capsules in the bottle for $10)

I hope I picked out the right stuff, here's what the label reads

*Directions*: take 1-2 softgels 3 times per day.
*Ingredients:* Cold water fish oil....400mg
                   Organic flax oil.....400mg
                   Borage oil...400mg
*Guarented minimum fatty acid profile per softgel:*
_Omega - 3 fatty acids (330mg)
_Docosahexaenoic Acis (DHA) .....48mg
Eicosapenfaenoic Acid (EPA) ....72mg
Alpha Linolenic Aid (LNA) ...210mg

_Omega 6 fatty scids (276mg)_
Linoleic Acid (LA) ...196mg
Gamma Linolenic Acid (GLA) ...80mg

_Omega 9 fatty acids (140mg)_
Oleic Acid ....140mg

Did I do alright?   and I have to take 20 of these a day? could I maybe take only 10, maybe 15 a day, that wouldn't be too expensive then...


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## Tom_B (Nov 16, 2004)

as for the high carb day things, I know it's not a cheat day (don't even have cheat days  ) and I still have to eat carbs that are on the approved carb list, and I know I'm not suppos to count calories on this diet, it'll be hard but I won't.


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## Jodi (Nov 16, 2004)

Nah, you got Cod Liver Oil mixed with other Omega 3 FA.  That's way more expensive.  Check with a few Canadians here and find out where they buy their fish oil but.

Adjust your workouts to match your diet.  When cutting, diet is key,


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## Emma-Leigh (Nov 16, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> So go with high/low/no then repeat? What would I do if a weight trainin gday fell on a no carb day?


Most of the time you can basically stick to a HIGH/LOW/NO cycle without too much hassle and still work it so you get high/low carb days on your weights days.

eg: If you are doing a 3 day split:
Mon - Legs - HIGH
Tues - Off - NO
Wed - Chest/Shoulders/Tri - LOW
Thurs - Off - LOW
Fri - Back/Bi - HIGH
Sat - Off - NO
Sun - Off - LOW

Or, if you are doing a 4 day split:
Mon - Legs - HIGH
Tues - Chest/Tri - LOW
Wed - Off - NO
Thurs - Back/Bi - HIGH
Fri - Shoulders - LOW
Sat - Off - NO
Sun - Off - LOW

Or else, you can tailor your weight training to your diet. It would mean you would not be following a 'weekly weights' pattern, but it would 'roll' with the weeks.. eg:
MON: HIGH - Legs
TUES: LOW - Shoulders
WED: NO - REST
THURS: HIGH - Back
FRI: LOW - Chest
SAT: NO - REST
SUN: HIGH - Legs
MON: LOW - Shoulders

.... repeat...

Or:
MON: HIGH - Legs
TUES: LOW - Chest/Shoulders/Tri
WED: NO - cardio
THURS: HIGH - Back/bi
FRI: LOW - REST
SAT: NO - Cardio
SUN: HIGH - Legs
MON: LOW - Chest/Shoulders/Tri

etc....



> Also I went out a bought some fish oil capsules, oh my god there expensive  ...espically if I have to take 20 a day, that's too expensive for me. (there's only 60 capsules in the bottle for $10)
> 
> I hope I picked out the right stuff, here's what the label reads
> 
> ...


These are ok, but you really just want 100% FISH OILS without the borage oil and flax in it... Look for something that has 1000mg of fish oil (1g) - Not cod liver oil or anything else...

The cheapest I can get them over here in Aust. is 400 capsules for $29... So I am sure you can get them cheaper over there.


I am also of the opinion that you should include fishies (6 to 10 a day), but you can get the majority of your fats from real food sources such as nuts/oils and fatty fish (esp if you use walnuts, walnut oil and especially fatty fish such as salmon in your meals) and still get the same benefits of the omega-3 fats.


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## tucker01 (Nov 17, 2004)

If you have a membership at Costco, that is probably your best bet for Fish oil.  Not as cheap as the US but a 300 count is $11, Best deal I can find 

With the US dollar going into the Shitter, you might want to check a few online sites, you may get a better price, or if you are close to the border have a shopping day


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## Tank316 (Nov 17, 2004)

i'm just wondering, with no disrespect, why are you carb cycling at the age of 15?
are you trying a bb'ing show?


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## BulkMeUp (Nov 17, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> Also I went out a bought some fish oil capsules, oh my god there expensive  ...espically if I have to take 20 a day, that's too expensive for me. (there's only 60 capsules in the bottle for $10)


PharmaPlus (i guess you have PharmaSave out there) has Swiss Natural sources Atlantic Deep Water Salmon oil caps (100% pure salmon oil) for CA$19.99 for a bonus bottle of 225 caps. They also have another product (i think it is called 'webber') of a 3 fish blend fish oil (tuna, mackrel and salmon) for CA$15.99 for 180 caps. Both have EPA/DHA-180/120. But if you can get to a Costco you might get it even cheaper. I dont have immediate access Costco so i wouldnt know about that.

As for Cod liver oil, i had checked with Jodi (http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showpost.php?p=675506&postcount=9) and was advised it ok to take it during winter as it will give you Vitamin D3 (http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showpost.php?p=675512&postcount=10 ) But take your total intake of VitA into consideration, if you are taking a multivamin or two in addition to the cod liver oil.


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## Tom_B (Nov 17, 2004)

OO your suppos to have 2 high carb days a week? I thought you were only suppos to have one, or at least thats what I would prefer  this is what I thought my routine could be
Sun - Leg Day - Low
Mon - Pilates - No
Tues - Chest/Tri/Ab - High
Wed - Pilates/Cardio - No
Thurs - Back/Shoudler/Bi - Low
Fri - Cardio / Pialtes - No
Sat - Rest Day - Low

But if I need 2 high carb days  I could just throw it on my Leg day.

okay good then they aren't suppos to be that expensive  , but I'll finish them off since I bought them....but would I still take 20 of these a day?
I think thats where my dad orders his stuff off for the restuarant - Costco so I could get him to buy some for me  and if thats not the place then I can get them at pharmasave I guess, since it's a 10 minute walk to one from my house.

As for why I'm carb cycling at 15 , well either way I'm gonna go on a cut, so I thought I'd try something different out  besdies I can't wait to get started and see how my body reacts to it 
As for ever joining a BB compeition, I doubt that!  I'd be laughed off the stage in a second!


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## tucker01 (Nov 17, 2004)

Personally my high carb day would be on legs, and my next high carb day would be be on back.  JMO.

Also MO, fuq cutting you are fifteen years old.  Just eat clean carbs, proteins, and Fats, and you won't have to worry.  dieting at your age is rediculous unless you are obese.  Again MO

Iain


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## ReelBigFish (Nov 17, 2004)

u know i've been reading this thread since the beginning and i've been wondering why you're cutting too. especially since you only weigh 136lbs. Dude stop worrying. I'm 17, started at 135ish and im up to 145 or so. U need to do the same IMO. Im going for 165 or so. I'm not worried bout cutting down until i get to where i want to be, cause either way your gunna have to do it, so just get it all done at once, the way i see it.


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## jaim91 (Nov 18, 2004)

lol...sometimes Tom doesn't get it. He doesn't think he's thin at 135.  He doesn't want to get "big" - wants to stay scrawny. Go for two high carb days a week - you need it.


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## Tom_B (Nov 18, 2004)

IainDaniel said:
			
		

> Personally my high carb day would be on legs, and my next high carb day would be be on back. JMO.


Well I still want my abs to grow, so I had a hard time decideding to stick my high carb day on my Leg Day , Or Ab day...but I finally decided to go with Ab, but now that I know I know I get two high carb days I can stcik the other on my leg day.



			
				IainDaniel said:
			
		

> Also MO, fuq cutting you are fifteen years old. Just eat clean carbs, proteins, and Fats, and you won't have to worry. dieting at your age is rediculous unless you are obese. Again MO
> 
> Iain


Well I was overweight, I was 160lbs with a really high body fat % , I was getting problems in my knees and the doctors thought it was becuase I weighed to much for them to support me  ...so I got disgusted with my body and well went on diet which I kept restrciting myself more and more...
I ended up losing 55 lbs in 4 months whcih left me at 105 lbs. So now I'm stuck with some loose skin on my lower stomach . Excercise and diet will always be apart of my life. I was 120lbs before deciding to go on a bulk and gained 16.5lbs so I'm ready for a mini cut (mentally more than anything)  just to lower my bodyfat% a little further and then I'm gonn aprobably go on another bulk.


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## Tom_B (Nov 18, 2004)

ReelBigFish said:
			
		

> u know i've been reading this thread since the beginning and i've been wondering why you're cutting too. especially since you only weigh 136lbs. Dude stop worrying. I'm 17, started at 135ish and im up to 145 or so. U need to do the same IMO. Im going for 165 or so. I'm not worried bout cutting down until i get to where i want to be, cause either way your gunna have to do it, so just get it all done at once, the way i see it.


Well like I said to Ian I started bulking when I was 120 pounds and my goal was 140 lbs , and then to go on a cut. I almost made it to 140lbs but I've been so sick becasue of eating all that food (Was eating around 3300-3400 calories , when I feel "stasified" at 2300 calories) literally sick  . So I cut out my activities but I still had to eat too much. So I'm goin gon this mini cut as a break mentally and physically I guess


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## Tom_B (Nov 18, 2004)

jaim91 said:
			
		

> lol...sometimes Tom doesn't get it. He doesn't think he's thin at 135.  He doesn't want to get "big" - wants to stay scrawny. Go for two high carb days a week - you need it.


I don't want to stay scrawny , just want to be really lean  .
I'll go for the 2 high carb days but if I'm not really seeing reulsts I'll tweak it around.


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## tucker01 (Nov 18, 2004)

AT your age you shouldn't be worried about dieting, just eat properly. Your meant to be enjoying yourself.  Dieting is a stress that you don't really need.  Let alone you'll end up fuqqin' with your Metabolism.  Enjoy this age, this is a time where you can make significant changes in your body, just work hard and eat healthy. 

Abs aren't really a large muscle and don't really expend alot of the Muscle glycogen.  Legs and Back are large muscles you want the high carbs around these muscle to refill these glycogen stores.  But in the end it is your decision.


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## ReelBigFish (Nov 18, 2004)

Tom, i hear ya bro. I had to same prob. I was almost 200lbs and was prob. about 45% bodyfat. I did Fatkins and started running and playing basketball every night. I lost bout 30lbs in 3 months but after that i came obsessed and became pretty much anorexic but never counted my calories i just didnt eat and if i did it was basically nuthing. I got down to 95 lbs. Yeah at first i was scared about getting fat and still am a little worried, but the way i look at it is when i see my self in the mirror and my extreme lack of muscle i get mad and it makes me wanna get big. Like i gained weight back to round 135 and had been lifting weights but got serious bout it about 4 months ago and in a way i sort of set my self up for the healthy eating and stuff. Becuase thats how i started eating when i started eating again, but I never really ate real food i at Junk all day as most teens do. Im happy to say that im 85% cured. I still get a little weird over food that i dont cook and sometimes shy away from parties and gatherings from food but then i smack myself and say "GET OVER IT" lol.


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## Tom_B (Nov 18, 2004)

I'm gonna take your suggestion IainDaniel and have both High carb days on my Back and Legs day. I've learned to take most suggestions I get from you guys 

Sounds Similar to me ReelBigFish
What happened to me is during hte 7th grade I was tired of being the fat kid , and with my lack of knowledge I didn't know what a calorie was and thought people got fat through eating fat, so I cut out all the fat in my diet, and if I ddi eat any I'd attempt to throw it up but never could, I ended up losin gsome wieght not alot though. But after a while I gave up and went back to my old ways. Then in grade 8 it got more serious and I ended up eating nothing thoughtout the week but for 1 day a week I would eat anything I wanted, major binge. I would easily eat around 10,000 calories that day. And if I messed up during the week and ate something I wasn't suppos to I would try to throw it up, but with littlw success and I started to do 100 sit-ups a night. My friend eventually causght on and told the guidance counsellor who told my mom so I stopped. Then in grade 9 it got outta control, I would eat absoultey nothing throughout the week and for 1 day of the week I would binge on everything in sight 3x that day, and after each time I would throw up untill I saw blood to make sure I got everything up. My excersice went to 2 hours of Pilates a day , 40 minutes of as fast as I could go jogging (it later turned to 2 hour walks since my legs hurt so much to even walk, so it was impossible to run for me) and 1500 crunches a night. I was eventually hospitalized because I was about to have a heart attack, I think it wasn't so much that my weight went odwn to 105 that screwed up my heart, but all the vomitting.
Anyways like you I'd say I'm about 85% cured, if I ever have to go to a social gathering or out to the mall I *always* bring food with me, I refuse to cheat.
But I'm happy with my lifestyle currently so I'm not complaining , I don't even find junk food appealing anymore


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## Twin Peak (Nov 18, 2004)

IainDaniel said:
			
		

> AT your age you shouldn't be worried about dieting, just eat properly. Your meant to be enjoying yourself.  Dieting is a stress that you don't really need.  Let alone you'll end up fuqqin' with your Metabolism.  Enjoy this age, this is a time where you can make significant changes in your body, just work hard and eat healthy.
> 
> Abs aren't really a large muscle and don't really expend alot of the Muscle glycogen.  Legs and Back are large muscles you want the high carbs around these muscle to refill these glycogen stores.  But in the end it is your decision.



My first diet was weight watchers when I was 13.  And I definitely should have been on a diet.  "Just eating properly" is not so easy for some of us.


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## Tom_B (Nov 19, 2004)

Ok , made up a new diet, hope this ones better.

Low Carb Days:

Meal 1 - 2 scoop of whey
- 2 packages of thin rolled oats (to speed up digestion)
- a little bit of crystal light

*_30 minutes after, workout*_

Post Workout - 2 scoops of whey
- 2 packages of thin rolled oats
- little bit of crystal light

*about an hour later*

Meal 2 - 1 carb counting tortilla wrap
- 1 cup of diced of skinless chicken breast
- 1/4 of a cup of fiber 1
- 1/2 a cup of brown rice
- 3 Fishies 

Meal 3 - 4 innerleafs of romain lettuce
- 1 can of tuna
- 1 TBSP of Lemon Juice
- 1 TBSP of Vinegar
- 3 fishies

Meal 4 - Egg whites ( I think 8 or 6 ...I buy them already broken in 250ml cartons)
- fat free Pam cooking oil
- 5 fishies

Meal 5 - 1 skinless Yellow fish Tuna steak
- 4 innerleafs of romain lettuce
- 1 TBSP of lemon juice
- 1 TBSP of vinegar
- 4 fishies

Meal 6 - Egg Whites
- fat free Pam cooking oil
- 5 fishies

*Totals *-_ Fat - 44 G (asumming each fish is only 1 gram of fat  ) (9G sat)_
- Carbs - 140G (34G of fiber , around 10G of sugar)
- Protein - 256G

No Carb Days:

Everything the same except taking away all carbs  and throwing a tablespoon of almond butter and another can of tuna in there somewhere.

*New Totals *- Fat 38G (6G sat)
- Carbs - 13G (3G of fiber, 10G of sugar)
- Protein - 255G

High Carb Days:
Once again everything the same except will be eating all the carbs I want within my first 4 meals.

And this will be my spilt:
Sun - Leg Day - High Carb Day
Mon - Pilates - No carb day
Tues - Chest/Tricep/Ab Day - Low Carb Day
Wed - HIIT cardio/Pilatesday - No carb day
Thurs - Back/Shoulder/Bi day - High carb day
Fri - HIIT cardio/Pilates day - No carb day
Sat - Rest Day - Low Carb day

I didn't include any fruit because noone ansered my question yet if it was really important to have it in there , and since I don't want it in there I took the liberity of assuming it dosen't matter if it's in there or not


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## tucker01 (Nov 19, 2004)

Twin Peak said:
			
		

> My first diet was weight watchers when I was 13.  And I definitely should have been on a diet.  "Just eating properly" is not so easy for some of us.



TP, I completely agree with you.  I have to be strict now just to maintain my weight.    or I blow up.  

I also mentioned to Tom that I wouldn't recommend dieting unless you were overweight to begin with.  Personally I think he should be enjoying himself and developing a healthy eating lifestyle


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## tucker01 (Nov 19, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> Ok , made up a new diet, hope this ones better.
> 
> Low Carb Days:
> 
> ...



Protein is pretty high

You want to be eating more carbs per meal on high carb days

Split looks better

As for the fruit it is used to refill Liver Glycogen and provide a full feeling.  If you don't want it, that is fine try it for a while without.  Fruit has many beneficial properties, and the amount you consume will hardly make a difference to you weekly calories.


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## Tom_B (Nov 19, 2004)

IainDaniel said:
			
		

> Protein is pretty high


 ya I ten dto go overboard with my protein  , just gotta watch my kidneys I guess



			
				IainDaniel said:
			
		

> You want to be eating more carbs per meal on high carb days


per meal? I thought it was only for 4 meals outta the day , I ate as many approved carbs as I wanted untill satisfied  



			
				IainDaniel said:
			
		

> Split looks better


Thanks to your adivse, I'm glad ya suggested leg and back day



			
				IainDaniel said:
			
		

> As for the fruit it is used to refill Liver Glycogen and provide a full feeling. If you don't want it, that is fine try it for a while without. Fruit has many beneficial properties, and the amount you consume will hardly make a difference to you weekly calories.


Well the only real frutis I like anyway are pears and strawberries  so I'm not missing out on anything, and I want to cut out fruit and dairy on thios cut. So if it's not gonna casue me harm I'll go along with it, thansk for clearing that for me


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## Emma-Leigh (Nov 19, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> I didn't include any fruit because noone ansered my question yet if it was really important to have it in there , and since I don't want it in there I took the liberity of assuming it dosen't matter if it's in there or not


Ok. You know I do not really approve of your whole cutting thing.... But:

Yes, on this diet (despite what the previous poster suggested) the fruit does matter.  You *need* to eat it in your carb meals. So add in 0.5 an apple in all your carb meals!

On your low carb day you want ~1g of carbs per pound NOT INCLUDING FIBRE in three of your meals! So increase your servings of carbs - this could be accomplished with the fruit. 

You can also get a way with more green vegetables than what you are eating (both on low and no carb days). These are what are going to help you stay full as well as offering you vitamins, minerals, fibre and other healthy things. You should only really think about limiting them if you do not see results.

I agree that the protein might be a little high, but see how you go and if required cut it down. (You should be aiming for about 1.5g per pound).

I would also start with 2 no, 3 low and 2 high days and then adjust down to 3 no, 2 low and 2 high only if needed. As I have said many times before - you want to start with more so, if your progress stalls, you have somewhere to go with your diet...

ps: So I spose my suggestions of high day for legs a few posts earlier in the thread was just the rantings of a silly female right??


----------



## tucker01 (Nov 19, 2004)

Don't get me wrong I think he should be eating the fruit Emma.  But in the end it his choice, that is all I was getting to.

As Emma Stated low carb days should be around one gram of carbs per lb of BW,  High Carb days are the days where you eat until you are satisfied.  An approximation is around 2g per lb of BW

As for the Ranting


----------



## jaim91 (Nov 20, 2004)

You shold eat one gram of carbs per bodyweight (not including th carbs found in fibre) over the course of 4 meals?


----------



## Tom_B (Nov 20, 2004)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Ok. You know I do not really approve of your whole cutting thing.... But:


I know you don't approve of it, but I still really appricate the advise your giving me Emma, thanks



			
				Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Yes, on this diet (despite what the previous poster suggested) the fruit does matter. You *need* to eat it in your carb meals. So add in 0.5 an apple in all your carb meals!


Ok, I'll add it in, instead of half an apple would half a small pear be alright? 



			
				Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> On your low carb day you want ~1g of carbs per pound NOT INCLUDING FIBRE in three of your meals! So increase your servings of carbs - this could be accomplished with the fruit.


Ok I'll have to go back a tweak it up a little bit more  



			
				Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Ok. You know I do not really approve of your whole cutting thing.... But:


I know you don't approve of it, but I still really appricate the advise your giving me Emma, thanks



			
				Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Yes, on this diet (despite what the previous poster suggested) the fruit does matter. You *need* to eat it in your carb meals. So add in 0.5 an apple in all your carb meals!


Ok, I'll add it in, instead of half an apple would half a small pear be alright? 



			
				Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> On your low carb day you want ~1g of carbs per pound NOT INCLUDING FIBRE in three of your meals! So increase your servings of carbs - this could be accomplished with the fruit.


Ok, I'll have to go back and tweak it up a little again  , if I take 



			
				Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> You can also get a way with more green vegetables than what you are eating (both on low and no carb days). These are what are going to help you stay full as well as offering you vitamins, minerals, fibre and other healthy things. You should only really think about limiting them if you do not see results.


Looking at that diet I'll be full, I can eat like a bird and be full, I really don't have that much of an appetite  ...I was thinkin gof throwing some broccoli in with my chicken. Problem is, is that it's too expensive   I might be able to get my dad to bring me home some from the restaurant. I was also thinking of maybe some celery? Don't know where I could throw it in, since I can't eat the stuff on it's own...maybe with my wrap? And just on no carb days I'll eat more lettuce with my salads, or brocoli with my chicken.



			
				Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> I agree that the protein might be a little high, but see how you go and if required cut it down. (You should be aiming for about 1.5g per pound).


No problem I'll just cut it down to 210G ...more of a reason to for not having ot eat anymore tuna  , I use to love the stuff but eating 1-2 cans of it a day can turn ya off from it.




			
				Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> I would also start with 2 no, 3 low and 2 high days and then adjust down to 3 no, 2 low and 2 high only if needed. As I have said many times before - you want to start with more so, if your progress stalls, you have somewhere to go with your diet...


I was thinking of that too, but remeber this is just a mini cut..might last for around 8 weeks, want toose my weight slowly. So since it's a mini cut will progress even have a chance to stall? Well in case it does how about I do this. For the first 4 weeks I have the 2 No, 3 Low, and 2 High days with the fruit and doin gonly 2 sessions of cardio. Then for the last 8 weeks I take away the fruit, do 3 sessions of cardio and have 3 No, 2 Low, 2 High. And then if progress stalls again I'll make it only 1 High carb day a week. So alright?



			
				Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> ps: So I spose my suggestions of high day for legs a few posts earlier in the thread was just the rantings of a silly female right??


No, I'm sorry Emma! I just thought that you were using those High carb days on Legs an example, not that you actually wanted me to do it. If you had of just said I think you should have your high carb day on your leg day, I woulda, I've always listened to you (except for this cut  , and the whole pear in Meal 1 , I seriously was gonna get rid of it as soon as all my pears were gone and get rasberries instead but then that girl bought me the huge bag of them  , there's still 3 left of them, and after this cut I'll go to rasberries..unless I should just eat rasberries instead of pears on this cut? ..I'd still be having it in meal 1 so what do you think?). Sorry about that Emma, it seems I'v ebeen doing nothing but getting you on your bad side with me


----------



## Tom_B (Nov 20, 2004)

jaim91 said:
			
		

> You shold eat one gram of carbs per bodyweight (not including th carbs found in fibre) over the course of 4 meals?


Jodi already explained that at the beggining of this thread 




			
				Jodi said:
			
		

> No Carb day is No Carbs: Protein/Veggies and Fish oil that is it
> Low Carb Day: 1G of Carb per pound of body weight divided into 3 meals PLUS 1 sm. Fruit with those carb meals AND your Protein/Veggies and Fish Oil
> High Carb Day: YOU DON"T COUNT YOUR CARB - Eat as many APPROVED carbs as you wish within 4 meals PLUS 1 small piece of fruit AND Protein/Veggies and Fish oil


----------



## Emma-Leigh (Nov 20, 2004)

jaim91 said:
			
		

> You shold eat one gram of carbs per bodyweight (not including th carbs found in fibre) over the course of 4 meals?



No... 

The general guidelines are basically:

*No carb day -* No carbs except those found in fibrous vegetables. A few fat/protein meals... I think you need 3 FAT/PROTEIN meals in this day - in which you want 10-15g of fats. Some people have 4 fat/protein meals... Then add your fishies in (I like them in your protein only meals, along with vegetables). So Tom, on these days, should be getting a minimum of ~40-45g of fat. You also want only ~1.5g of protein per pound on these days... You can also basically have LOTS of vegetables!! Only limit them if you start to have problems down the track.

*Low carb day -* 3 carb meals. These meals should have 1 small peice of fruit (50 to 100 cals worth) in addition to the starchy carbs on the 'approved' carb list. The amount of carbs you should aim for is ~1g of NON-FIBRE carbs per pound bodyweight. So for Tom that would be ~140g of STARCHY/FRUIT carbs. When divided into those three meals that would be ~46g of carbs per meal.  You should also have FAT/PROTEIN meals (two meals usually) in which the fat content should be 10-15g. All other meals should be protein only (with vegetables and fishies). You should also aim for 1.5g of protein per pound.

*High carb day -* 4 carb meals. These four meals should also have 1 small peice of fruit (50 to 100 cals) in addition to the 'ALL YOU WANT' approved carbs. You should try to have at least two of these meals around your workouts (pre/post and post-post). 2 protein only meals (with vegetables and fishies/fats). Make sure you have ~1.5g of protein per pound (you should still have a minimum protein content in each meal).


----------



## Emma-Leigh (Nov 20, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> Ok, I'll add it in, instead of half an apple would half a small pear be alright?


As long as it is ~50 to 100 cals worth then a pear is fine.



> I was also thinking of maybe some celery? Don't know where I could throw it in, since I can't eat the stuff on it's own...maybe with my wrap? And just on no carb days I'll eat more lettuce with my salads, or brocoli with my chicken.


Trust me. You need the vegetables. You WANT the vegetables.... Fibre content wise, health wise and fullness wise... Add them in.



> Well in case it does how about I do this. For the first 4 weeks I have the 2 No, 3 Low, and 2 High days with the fruit and doin gonly 2 sessions of cardio. Then for the last 8 weeks I take away the fruit, do 3 sessions of cardio and have 3 No, 2 Low, 2 High. And then if progress stalls again I'll make it only 1 High carb day a week. So alright?


Most cutting diets should only last ~12 weeks (up to 16 really) anyway. So it is not that short...

But did you even listen to me at all?? 

YOU CAN NOT CUT THE FRUIT OUT! Period. You need it in the diet. It has a FUNCTION other than just being 'healthy' and being a 'carb'. It has to do with the effect it has on your body. LEAVE IT IN.

Start with 3 low, 2 no and 2 high. Start with 2 days of cardio. EAT THE DAMN FRUIT. Watch your progress over the first 3 to 4 weeks. If you are not happy, change the ratio to 3 no, 2 low and 2 high. Watch for a further 2 weeks. If you are still not happy then add in another day of cardio if you must. ALL THE WHILE KEEP THE FRUIT IN YOUR DAMN DIET! 

That is, in summary:
Weeks 1 to 3/4: 2 no, 3 low, 2 high. FRUIT. 2 days cardio
Weeks 3/4 to 6: IF REQUIRED. 3 no, 2 low, 2 high. FRUIT. 2 days cardio
Weeks 6 to 8: IF REQUIRED. 3 no, 2 low, 2 high. FRUIT. 3 days cardio.

Don't drop to 1 high carb day a week. That is ludicrous and you will end up feeling crappy, drained and pathetically weak....


ps: I'm not mad at you so don't worry... But, if I say YOU NEED THE FRUIT. Then KEEP THE DAMN FRUIT! 

pss: Pears are fine.


----------



## Tom_B (Nov 21, 2004)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> As long as it is ~50 to 100 cals worth then a pear is fine.


ok pears it is.




			
				Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Trust me. You need the vegetables. You WANT the vegetables.... Fibre content wise, health wise and fullness wise... Add them in.


Ok I'll ask my dad for the brocolii, not sure if I can eat celery since I don't know where to put it since I can't eat it alone. 





			
				Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Most cutting diets should only last ~12 weeks (up to 16 really) anyway. So it is not that short...


Really?  I guess I'm gonna be losing weight really slowly , I thought sometimes went to 30 weeks...then I thought about it and there's only 48 weeks in a year.  I'm really stupid.



			
				Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> But did you even listen to me at all??
> 
> YOU CAN NOT CUT THE FRUIT OUT! Period. You need it in the diet. It has a FUNCTION other than just being 'healthy' and being a 'carb'. It has to do with the effect it has on your body. LEAVE IT IN.
> 
> ...


 okay okay I'll keep the fruit. I'll eat some pears and apples I guess (I had an apple today and I forgot how good they were  ).
And I'll go by that routine if my progress slows down at all.
And I'll always keep it 2 High Days.
Sorry on the run so I'm just kinda summy up my reply.


Also I'm really stupid  I was looking over the diet again and I saw meal 2 was my taco thingy I make , but that emals right before I go to school and I only have time for a shake so...I was thinking if I could have another scoop of whey , and 1/3 of a cup of rolled oats and still the wrap? Would that be alright , macros would stay the same.


----------



## Emma-Leigh (Nov 21, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> Really?  I guess I'm gonna be losing weight really slowly , I thought sometimes went to 30 weeks...then I thought about it and there's only 48 weeks in a year.  I'm really stupid.


Typical comp diets only last 12 weeks. Sometimes, if someone is new or if they are really 'chunky' then they go out to 16 weeks (occasionally 20 weeks).

Longer than this and you really start to get problems.



> Also I'm really stupid  I was looking over the diet again and I saw meal 2 was my taco thingy I make , but that emals right before I go to school and I only have time for a shake so...I was thinking if I could have another scoop of whey , and 1/3 of a cup of rolled oats and still the wrap? Would that be alright , macros would stay the same.


AND FRUIT!!

This sounds ok for low carb days (as long as you are getting your required carbs, fruit, lean protein). But the only problem is that on high-carb days, what are you going to do if you can not eat your carbs?


----------



## BulkMeUp (Nov 21, 2004)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Typical comp diets only last 12 weeks. Sometimes, if someone is new or if they are really 'chunky' then they go out to 16 weeks (occasionally 20 weeks).


Is this for this type of carb cycling diet, Emma? I am doing 11x my bw for about 3 months now. Is it recommended to stop and continue in a couple of weeks?


----------



## BulkMeUp (Nov 21, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> , I thought sometimes went to 30 weeks...then I thought about it and there's only 48 weeks in a year.  I'm really stupid.


uummmm... there are 52 weeks in a year, Tom.


----------



## Emma-Leigh (Nov 21, 2004)

BulkMeUp said:
			
		

> Is this for this type of carb cycling diet, Emma? I am doing 11x my bw for about 3 months now. Is it recommended to stop and continue in a couple of weeks?


No, this is not just for carb cycling -  This is my view on all hypocalorific diets. 

So I would have a break (especially because your cals are so low!!). Increase them back up to maintainence (over the course of one or two weeks) and then have one week off. Allow your body to rest. Then get back into it.

Same goes for cardio - you are better off cycling it (start with 2 or 3 days a week for 20-30 mins, add on days and time as weeks progress till you hit 5 or 6 days a week then drop back down to 2 or 3 days and start again).

Your body adapts to imposed demands (the SAID principle) - so if you do the same thing all the time it simply 'gets used to it' and you will not progress.


----------



## BulkMeUp (Nov 21, 2004)

Thanks Emma. I needed a break anyways, have been bulking and cutting for the past 9 months. Besides christimas is on the way. Time to pig out on the festive goodies.


----------



## Tom_B (Nov 21, 2004)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> AND FRUIT!!
> 
> This sounds ok for low carb days (as long as you are getting your required carbs, fruit, lean protein). But the only problem is that on high-carb days, what are you going to do if you can not eat your carbs?


 forgot about that fruit  , I can just take that on the run with me I guess, and eat it on my way to school.
As for High carb days...that'll be tricky, luckily my leg days fall on a sunday, but my back day is on a thurs. Hmm   well I was thinking I could make some of those cookies Jodi posted in the recipe forum , throw a scoop of whey in with some water and throw some cookies into a bag and eat them on my way to school. I'll just cut the number of cookies down from 12 to 24 to make the carbs denser in each cookie.
I actually tried making them today , since I'm starting my diet today and it happens to be a High Carb day , but I didn't have some of the ingredients and tried to impervise....didn't work to well  . I had to put it into a muffin pan, the first three were...edible..but after that


----------



## Tom_B (Nov 21, 2004)

BulkMeUp said:
			
		

> uummmm... there are 52 weeks in a year, Tom.


 why is it that your always the one ot point out how stupid I am  

There are? I thought it was just 4 x 12 which would equal 48  I guess I'm stupider than I thought!


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## Emma-Leigh (Nov 21, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> forgot about that fruit  , I can just take that on the run with me I guess, and eat it on my way to school.


You better 



> As for High carb days...that'll be tricky, luckily my leg days fall on a sunday, but my back day is on a thurs. Hmm   well I was thinking I could make some of those cookies Jodi posted in the recipe forum , throw a scoop of whey in with some water and throw some cookies into a bag and eat them on my way to school. I'll just cut the number of cookies down from 12 to 24 to make the carbs denser in each cookie.


That doesn't make sense... Did you mean cut the number from 24 to 12?? 

Anyway - what happens if you eat the cookies and you are not 'satisfied'??? It will not work. You NEED to have good carbs available to you so you can 'eat until you are satisfied' and this is not going to happen if you are trying to stuff cookies as you rush to school... You would have to bake 3 batches and pack them all 'just in case' the 24 you make are not enough... 

Also, these cookies have applesauce in them so they count for your fruit in addition to your starchy carbs... But you only want about 12-24 cookies (0.5 - 1 cup applesauce) as more than that and you get more than the level of carbs from fruit that you want in a meal... So if you rely on the cookies as your only carb source you will run into problems.

You are going to have to think about it a little more Tom.... If you are going to do TP's carb cycling then you should do it properly - otherwise just do a different form of dieting.


----------



## joey2005 (Nov 21, 2004)

here comes my question...how are yyou to lose fat if you eat all the carbs you want??? what if hes not satisfied until hes eaten 2 cups of oatmeal which is an outrageous amount..thats 600 calories plus whatever else..


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## BulkMeUp (Nov 21, 2004)

joey2005 said:
			
		

> here comes my question...how are yyou to lose fat if you eat all the carbs you want??? what if hes not satisfied until hes eaten 2 cups of oatmeal which is an outrageous amount..thats 600 calories plus whatever else..


By eating all the carbs he wants he is doing a refeed thus preventing his metabolism from going into starvation mode. When you are in starvation mode, your body tries to hold onto fat as it thinks that there is a fammine comming and tries to conserve fat/energy. So by eating until he is satisfied, he is satisfying his body that there is no fammine comming and not to shut down and it is ok to burn fat. However in order for this to be sucessful, it has to be cycled properly/effectively.


----------



## joey2005 (Nov 21, 2004)

ahhhh...im carb cycling as well but have still been holding back on high carb day...i always thought too many carbs at one sitting turns to fat. I guess ill have 2 cups of oats in the morning then.


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## BulkMeUp (Nov 21, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> why is it that your always the one ot point out how stupid I am  !


 I assure you it is not deliberate.   


			
				Tom_B said:
			
		

> :There are? I thought it was just 4 x 12 which would equal 48  I guess I'm stupider than I thought!


A month has 4 weeks plus a few days. You can calculate it more correctly as follows : 365(days)/7(days per week)=52(weeks).


----------



## BulkMeUp (Nov 21, 2004)

joey2005 said:
			
		

> ahhhh...im carb cycling as well but have still been holding back on high carb day...i always thought too many carbs at one sitting turns to fat. I guess ill have 2 cups of oats in the morning then.


It is not simply eating a specific number of carbs. You must eat until you are satisfied to satisfy your metabolism that it is not being starved. Read through the refeed sticky for more tips and dont pay too much attention to your weight the next day as it suggests.

I know you mentioned a while ago that you are able to eat a lot of carbs on your high day but dont want to do so to avoid putting on fat. In case you are not, then try to cook the oats before you eat them. That way they will absorb water and be more filling. Eating 2 cups(raw measure) of cooked oats in one sitting can be quite filling.


----------



## Tom_B (Nov 22, 2004)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> That doesn't make sense... Did you mean cut the number from 24 to 12??


Yup thats what I meant sorry I was rushing yesterday  was gonna be late for work.



			
				Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Anyway - what happens if you eat the cookies and you are not 'satisfied'??? It will not work. You NEED to have good carbs available to you so you can 'eat until you are satisfied' and this is not going to happen if you are trying to stuff cookies as you rush to school... You would have to bake 3 batches and pack them all 'just in case' the 24 you make are not enough...


 ok I'll make 3 batches and bring them to school with me lol , I'll pre pack the cookies the night before then before leaving I'll eat my scoop of whey and if I have some extra time I"ll start scrafing them down, although I don't then it's gonna take 36 cookies to satisfy me (espically if there big  ) but who knows I might get the munchies 



			
				Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Also, these cookies have applesauce in them so they count for your fruit in addition to your starchy carbs... But you only want about 12-24 cookies (0.5 - 1 cup applesauce) as more than that and you get more than the level of carbs from fruit that you want in a meal... So if you rely on the cookies as your only carb source you will run into problems.


Crappy ....what if I change around the recipe? Instead of putting in an entire cup of apple sauce what if I put in 1/2 a cup and add in some extra egg whties , would that work? ....but then what if I don't want alot so I don't get all the carbs I watn from fruits  . 
Wait I could add some rolled oats in with my whey, then eat the 12-24 things of cookies , I'm sure I'll be satisfied by then , and if I'm not I'll know better next day. I'll also search aroung the grocery store tonight for some portable carb sources, doubt I'll find any but I can look.
It's also alright if all these carb meals are not back to back right? just because I can have three in the morning then I go to school , and I have to have some other meal for lunch then I'll eat my fourth carb meal after getting home , that's alrigh tisn't it?



			
				Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> You are going to have to think about it a little more Tom.... If you are going to do TP's carb cycling then you should do it properly - otherwise just do a different form of dieting.


NO!   I have my mind set on this and I will do it , it's just proving to be a little more difficult with that extra High carb day I didn't know I was usppos to have. But I'l lfingure something out , I got till thurs.


----------



## Tom_B (Nov 22, 2004)

BulkMeUp said:
			
		

> I assure you it is not deliberate.


I guess it's just the side effects of being blonde  ...although I'm not naturally  I was when I was a kid though, life was so care free back in the good old days 



			
				BulkMeUp said:
			
		

> A month has 4 weeks plus a few days. You can calculate it more correctly as follows : 365(days)/7(days per week)=52(weeks).


I never woulda thought of that equation


----------



## joey2005 (Nov 22, 2004)

post workout shake that consists of 1 cup oats is considered a carb meal on a high carb day righT?


----------



## Emma-Leigh (Nov 22, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> Wait I could add some rolled oats in with my whey, then eat the 12-24 things of cookies , I'm sure I'll be satisfied by then , and if I'm not I'll know better next day. I'll also search aroung the grocery store tonight for some portable carb sources, doubt I'll find any but I can look.


Take a box of rolled oats in it as well as the shake and the cookies. You would have to make sure you ate the cookies though - as you need the fruit in them. So drink your whey + eat ALL the cookies (so you get your protein and your serving of fruit... you need to eat 0.5 to 1 cup of applesauce) then go on to eat as much rolled oats as you want from the box... Another option would be to take a box of fibre 1 and then just scarf down that as you go! 

I don't know what you have available to you over there but there is a natural museli you can get here that is untoasted. It is made of rolled oats + dried apricots + dried apple + cinnamon + psyllium. It is DAMN tasty... So you could just go for something like that as well (as both fruit + carb). Only problem would be accurately measuring your fruit serving out...



> It's also alright if all these carb meals are not back to back right? just because I can have three in the morning then I go to school , and I have to have some other meal for lunch then I'll eat my fourth carb meal after getting home , that's alrigh tisn't it?


Thats fine. Just a long as you have a carb meal pre and post workout then the other carb meals can be where ever you like.


----------



## Tom_B (Nov 23, 2004)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Take a box of rolled oats in it as well as the shake and the cookies. You would have to make sure you ate the cookies though - as you need the fruit in them. So drink your whey + eat ALL the cookies (so you get your protein and your serving of fruit... you need to eat 0.5 to 1 cup of applesauce) then go on to eat as much rolled oats as you want from the box... Another option would be to take a box of fibre 1 and then just scarf down that as you go!


But I'd put the rolled oats in my whey , so I can't eat my whey then as many rolled oats as I want..
I was thinking make the shake with about 2/3 of a cup of rolled oats, then bring the entire batch of cookies with me and eat those, if I'm still not satisfied I'll bring a sleeve of fiber 1 with me  ...I should be by then.



			
				Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> I don't know what you have available to you over there but there is a natural museli you can get here that is untoasted. It is made of rolled oats + dried apricots + dried apple + cinnamon + psyllium. It is DAMN tasty... So you could just go for something like that as well (as both fruit + carb). Only problem would be accurately measuring your fruit serving out...


That sounds so good  ..I went grocery shopping last night and I couldn't find anything that resembled that , so I asked someone who was working and he looked at me a really weird way as he said "What?...Umm sorry but I've never heard of that stuff" then walked away. So that's outta the question , unless they'd carry it somewhere else, I'll check at maybe Sobey's next time I'm at the mall.


----------



## Emma-Leigh (Nov 23, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> But I'd put the rolled oats in my whey , so I can't eat my whey then as many rolled oats as I want..
> I was thinking make the shake with about 2/3 of a cup of rolled oats, then bring the entire batch of cookies with me and eat those, if I'm still not satisfied I'll bring a sleeve of fiber 1 with me  ...I should be by then.


Just as long as you eat your whey + ALL the cookies to get the applesauce I don't care what order you eat it in! 



> That sounds so good  ...


I am not sure if you can get it over there - Here is the product: Apricot Museli 

Maybe it is available somewhere???


----------



## BulkMeUp (Nov 23, 2004)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> I am not sure if you can get it over there - Here is the product: Apricot Museli
> 
> Maybe it is available somewhere???


I am sure Sobeys has Muesli (my grocery store has it). Look for it in the cereal asile in the bigger grocery stores. But i am not sure how far it is natural. A product that come very close to it is 'Trail Mix'. I think you might have heard of that.


----------



## Tom_B (Nov 23, 2004)

Ok then Sobey's it is  Thanks all superstore had was stuff like "Go lean" or whatever..
I'll go out either tomorrow or tonight and get the stuff.


----------



## Tom_B (Nov 24, 2004)

Ok went out to Sobey's and all I found that resembled what you were talking about was "Kellog's Apple Crisp Muslix"
Per 3/4 a cup:
Fat 4G (.5sat)
Carbs - 40G (9G of sugar , 5G of fiber)

So due to the sugar I'd be able to have around 1 cup?
But I then looked at the ingredents more closely and the first ingredient is:
Ceral Blend (Whole Wheat, *Sugar*/*Glucose*-Fructose, Rolled oats, Rice , Milled Corn , *Brown Sugar*, wheat bran, Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil, Malt)

So since it's got The sugar/Glucose and brown sugar this is a thing I should stay away from isn't it?


----------



## Emma-Leigh (Nov 24, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> So since it's got The sugar/Glucose and brown sugar this is a thing I should stay away from isn't it?


Yeah you should. Especially with the hydrogenated vegetable oil!! 

Next time look for a completely natural product. Ingredients should list something like:
Rolled Oats
+/- Rolled other grains (barley, rye, triticle)
Dried fruits
+/- almonds/sunflower seeds
cinnamon/spices


----------



## CowPimp (Nov 24, 2004)

http://www.naturespath.com/products/product_details.asp?id=34

I eat that cereal on a regular basis.  The pumpkin variant is also good, although it has 8g of sugar in a serving.


----------



## jaim91 (Nov 25, 2004)

Why not just eat plain honey/almond, or berry, or chocolate chip flavoured rolled oats/granola?


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## fifteecent (Nov 25, 2004)

Umm, I just read all the posts to this and I'd just like to say that you are making a big mistake cutting at that weight. I am the same weight as you and I would not be cutting. i am starting to think that you are anorexic, no offense but no joke. Cutting at that vital age can take away a lot from your growth. You're VERY soon going through your prime age where you will be growing the most and by cutting you are restricting this growth. 

If you are worried about getting fat again, just eat like you were eating before and workout like you are now. You even said before that you were trying to eat as much as you could and you got full on 2300 calories. That is a good calorie count for you to eat to cut up, but hey why not just eat to your delight and workout while you're doing it. The working out itself will keep you lean. That's just my 2 cents. I think bodybuilding is cool and fun but if you are young and damaging your body the way you are I wouldn't think it cool anymore. You seem thoroughly convinced that you deserve a mini-cut that lasts 8 weeks...... despite lots of people giving you wise advice. Bulk some more man so you can fill up your frame. Once you do that, cutting will be even 10x easier since you'll have packed on some more mass.


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## BulkMeUp (Nov 25, 2004)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Yeah you should. Especially with the hydrogenated vegetable oil!!


Avoid any product that has Trans Fats in them. i.e. if the ingredients contain the word 'hydrogenated' or 'shortening'.


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## Tom_B (Nov 25, 2004)

fifteecent said:
			
		

> Umm, I just read all the posts to this and I'd just like to say that you are making a big mistake cutting at that weight. I am the same weight as you and I would not be cutting. i am starting to think that you are anorexic, no offense but no joke. Cutting at that vital age can take away a lot from your growth. You're VERY soon going through your prime age where you will be growing the most and by cutting you are restricting this growth.
> 
> If you are worried about getting fat again, just eat like you were eating before and workout like you are now. You even said before that you were trying to eat as much as you could and you got full on 2300 calories. That is a good calorie count for you to eat to cut up, but hey why not just eat to your delight and workout while you're doing it. The working out itself will keep you lean. That's just my 2 cents. I think bodybuilding is cool and fun but if you are young and damaging your body the way you are I wouldn't think it cool anymore. You seem thoroughly convinced that you deserve a mini-cut that lasts 8 weeks...... despite lots of people giving you wise advice. Bulk some more man so you can fill up your frame. Once you do that, cutting will be even 10x easier since you'll have packed on some more mass.


Thanks for the concern, but I've already repsonded to stuff like this, so many times, check my journal if your interested.


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## Tom_B (Nov 25, 2004)

BulkMeUp said:
			
		

> Avoid any product that has Trans Fats in them. i.e. if the ingredients contain the word 'hydrogenated' or 'shortening'.


 ok , I'm always so concerned about sugar I sometimes miss that stuff.


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## Tom_B (Nov 25, 2004)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> http://www.naturespath.com/products/product_details.asp?id=34
> 
> I eat that cereal on a regular basis. The pumpkin variant is also good, although it has 8g of sugar in a serving.


That looks good too  ...damn you lucky people and your good cereal  , I'm gonna have to check this mon. while grocery shopping, maybe there will be something, I doubt it though. I was just looking for that musliex stuff


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## CowPimp (Nov 25, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> That looks good too  ...damn you lucky people and your good cereal  , I'm gonna have to check this mon. while grocery shopping, maybe there will be something, I doubt it though. I was just looking for that musliex stuff



You can buy it too.  I goto two different stores when I go grocery shopping.  I goto Whole Foods and a local grocery store called Snyder's.  I buy most things from Snyder's, but a few select store brand items are cheaper at Whole Foods or unavailable at the other store.


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## Tom_B (Nov 26, 2004)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> You can buy it too. I goto two different stores when I go grocery shopping. I goto Whole Foods and a local grocery store called Snyder's. I buy most things from Snyder's, but a few select store brand items are cheaper at Whole Foods or unavailable at the other store.


 I've never heard of whole foods or Snyder's.....I live in a really small town, I hate it here  
If they don't have this cereal in the "health" section of superstore , then I won't find it anywhere else..


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## BulkMeUp (Nov 26, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> If they don't have this cereal in the "health" section of superstore , then I won't find it anywhere else..


Try and look at products that come close to the ingredients suggested by Emma in the above post #65, if you cant find products by brand name.


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## Tom_B (Nov 27, 2004)

BulkMeUp said:
			
		

> Try and look at products that come close to the ingredients suggested by Emma in the above post #65, if you cant find products by brand name.


Yup thats what I did I went out and looked for some more cereal since tomorrows my High carb day ..and guess what I found Muesli!!
theres where different types of them , some of them had sugar cane int hem but I choose this one
Ingredients:
Oatflakes, wheat, barley and corn, dried banana, raisins, puffed rice, dried apple, almonds, honey and dried orange. 
May contain traces of nuts

ugh...I just noticed the banana in them....thats not good for a cut is it..

anyways:
Per 40G (how am I suppos to know how much that is?)

calories - 150G
Protein - 3G
fat - 4.3
g
Carbs - 24G (sugars 6G , fibre 3G)

so how much would I be able to eat? if any because of the banana?


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## Emma-Leigh (Nov 27, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> Yup thats what I did I went out and looked for some more cereal since tomorrows my High carb day ..and guess what I found Muesli!!
> theres where different types of them , some of them had sugar cane int hem but I choose this one
> Ingredients:
> Oatflakes, wheat, barley and corn, dried banana, raisins, puffed rice, dried apple, almonds, honey and dried orange.
> May contain traces of nuts


Geezzzzz, you guys have crappy museli over there! 

Honey was probably not the best.... But it looks ok.



> ugh...I just noticed the banana in them....thats not good for a cut is it..


The amount you will be getting will probably be insignificant...



> anyways:
> Per 40G (how am I suppos to know how much that is?)


Why does it matter if you are only going to eat it on high carb days??!! 




> so how much would I be able to eat? if any because of the banana?


Just eat it and count it as both fruit/carbs for the meal... 


But if you want to get technical... 40g (which is usually 1/2 cup, depending on the weight of the ingredients) has ~6g sugar then that will be coming from the fruit and the honey. As an average peice of fruit has ~15 to 20g of sugars then I would say 1.5 cups would give you the same amount as you would get in 1 peice of fruit....

But, if you REALLY want to get technical... Then you would stick to only 'approved carbs'...


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## jaim91 (Nov 28, 2004)

Go For It! It's A High Carb Day! Enjoy!


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