# What to eat before bed?



## frostyballz (Jul 16, 2002)

I need some help on this.  I know your muscle don't grow in the gym, the grow when you sleep.  Your supposed to refuel your body right after a w/o with carbs and 100% whey protein.  What should you eat before bed help your muscle grow(heal)?  Complex carbs and a protein mix, or is just a mixed protein drink ok?  Or  some real food for the protein like eggs or chicken?


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## KataMaStEr (Jul 16, 2002)

Before bed a good protein blend would be good. Specially one that contains casein. Just whey would not do so good, due to its fast absorption rate.


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## w8lifter (Jul 16, 2002)

Real food is always best....if you have to use a shake, use a blended protein....and add some fat to the meal to slow digestion and help you get through the night


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## crackerjack414 (Jul 16, 2002)

For omptimal muscle growth an apple and cottage cheese. Cottage cheese is rich in casein protein, which is a slow digesting protein.Cottage cheese is also an excellent source of glutamine.


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## mama's boy (Jul 16, 2002)

The best pre bed meal is a ketogenic one. This means high fat, with an appropriate amount of protein (this depends on a lot of factors). Fiber (supplemental, or from nuts/seeds/celery, etc) helps slow things down, too... as you will not eat for another 8 hours. 

Avoid carbs like the plague! Especially on a cut.


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## Robboe (Jul 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by mama's boy *_
> Avoid carbs like the plague! Especially on a cut.



Shut up.


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## ponyboy (Jul 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by mama's boy *_
> The best pre bed meal is a ketogenic one. This means high fat, with an appropriate amount of protein (this depends on a lot of factors). Fiber (supplemental, or from nuts/seeds/celery, etc) helps slow things down, too... as you will not eat for another 8 hours.
> 
> Avoid carbs like the plague! Especially on a cut.



Mama's Boy says this as he closes his Atkins Diet manual...


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## mama's boy (Jul 17, 2002)

Nice to meet you guys, too.


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## w8lifter (Jul 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> 
> Shut up.




gggrrrrr! That was not nice!


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## Training God (Jul 17, 2002)




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## ponyboy (Jul 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by mama's boy *_
> Nice to meet you guys, too.



Just playing around with you


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## mama's boy (Jul 17, 2002)

PB, 

Didn't really mind your post. Much love.  

PS- The other guy still sucks, though.


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## Chest Rockwell (Jul 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> 
> Shut up.



What's your problem???
 

Were you eating carbs before bed while you were reading this post??


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## BUSTINOUT (Jul 17, 2002)

I prefer something like salmon.  High protein, and EFA.  Fats also slow digestion.


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## david (Jul 18, 2002)

Salmon... hmmn... haven't had that for awhile.  Whoops, I just had that in my sushi.  that doesn't count though.  BO, how do you prepare that?  By the way, Long time no hear and hello again!  I've been camping out here and loving it!


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## Robboe (Jul 18, 2002)

lol, yeah, it was a bit harsh, but it was justified for the retarded statement made without mentioning other variables.

Oxygen is corrosive. Do people go round telling others not to breathe?


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## I Are Baboon (Jul 18, 2002)

SOY NUTS!  Well, I ate 1/2 cup of them right before bed last night.


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## mama's boy (Jul 18, 2002)

TCD, 

Since my statement is "retarded", why dont you answer the question? What do you think one should eat before bed?

To clerify...

My retarded point was to eat something as slow-digested as possible before bed (unless you plan on getting up and eating something). This means fat, fiber and protein. If that's an incorrect statement or bad suggestion, I'd like to hear your alternative.


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## Robboe (Jul 18, 2002)

Fair enough.

You said "avoid carbs like the plague" in referring to what to eat before bed. Now, you didn't mention any other variables.

Certain diets have carbs specifically (and strategically) placed before bed ie NHE. On CKD's you are required to eat carbs in every meal of the day - and even Dan Duchaine once said to wake up every 2 hours and eat more carbs during the night to ensure proper glycogen supercompensation.

Now, if some one's maintence level of cals is 2000 and in one day they've had 1600 calories so far. They eat a further 200cals of carbs before bed, will they suddenly not lose weight cause they ate carbs before bed? (provided everyother day they've eaten 1800 cals) Of course they'll still drop weight.

If some one trains late in the day (say 9pm) and they have an 11pm bed time, should they not eat carbs in the last meal of the night? Will it suddeny all go on as fat? 

Of course not. Only if they totally binge on the carbs and overspill glycogen stores will there be potential fat storage. In fact, post train is probably the best time time to binge on carbs since insulin sensitivity is raised and glycogen stores have more space for carbs. In fact, even if you do spill over into fat cells, the increased glucose metabolism in the fat cell would raise leptin levels which in turn could probably in turn cause further fat loss. Ironic, ain't it? 

There is nothing magical about a certain time of the evning that suddenly changes the laws of thermodynamics and makes carbohydrates get stored as fat as soon as you eat them.

Now, on the other side of the coin, keeping insulin levels lower may very well keep you in a more probable fat burning state, but you can still very well drop fat while cutting and still eating carbs before bed. I was merely pointing out that such a broad statement is not totally correct. It's like saying someone is guilty just because they are present at the scene of a crime.


And that's about it really...


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## Robboe (Jul 18, 2002)

The moral of the story?

Carbs are just _one_ variable in a very large picture.


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## Robboe (Jul 18, 2002)

...one very small fish in a rather large pond...


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## Robboe (Jul 18, 2002)

One brick in a very big house...


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## Robboe (Jul 18, 2002)

...one little match in a really, really big box of matches...


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## Robboe (Jul 18, 2002)

etc...


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## mama's boy (Jul 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Fair enough. Certain diets have carbs specifically (and strategically) placed before bed ie NHE. On CKD's you are required to eat carbs in every meal of the day - and even Dan Duchaine once said to wake up every 2 hours and eat more carbs during the night to ensure proper glycogen supercompensation.



The key here is "Every two hours". My point was that if you're actually going to sleep, like for 8 hours- go keto (or as close to it as you can muster). Assuming you're not carb loading (the poster mentioned nothing of carb-loading), why set your metabolism on faster burning carbs (in relation to fat, fiber and protein) when you won't get any for the next 8 hours? 



> Now, if some one's maintence level of cals is 2000 and in one day they've had 1600 calories so far. They eat a further 200cals of carbs before bed, will they suddenly not lose weight cause they ate carbs before bed? (provided everyother day they've eaten 1800 cals) Of course they'll still drop weight.



The same 200 cals, eaten in such a ratio as to put (or keep) the dieter in a ketogenic state will result in more FAT LOSS than carbs or carbs and protein, or a mixed meal.  The remaining 200 cals burned are much less likely to come from glucose or muscle breakdown. 



> If some one trains late in the day (say 9pm) and they have an 11pm bed time, should they not eat carbs in the last meal of the night? Will it suddeny all go on as fat?/quote]
> 
> No. They should eat carbs here.
> 
> ...


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## crackerjack414 (Jul 18, 2002)

purpously waking up can cause more damage than it prevents. The body excerts certain growth hormones during sleep. Deep sleep if I remember correctly. If you are waking up to go to the bathroom its fine to slug down a protein shake and return to sleep.


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## EarWax (Jul 18, 2002)

I remember when I first started lifting weights with my personal trainer, he said not to eat carbs after 2:00 pm.  I was just wondering what carbs are considered exceptable carbs (in terms of food please) for eating before bed?  I really dropped the carbs off my diet... and trying to fit them in again.


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## Chest Rockwell (Jul 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by EarWax *_
> I remember when I first started lifting weights with my personal trainer, he said not to eat carbs after 2:00 pm.  I was just wondering what carbs are considered exceptable carbs (in terms of food please) for eating before bed?  I really dropped the carbs off my diet... and trying to fit them in again.



Basically any green, fiberous veggie is good(high fiber, low Gi is best).

I think any of the following would be acceptable
spinich, broccoli, kale, green and red peppers, iceberg lettuce,green beans,
a very large serving of asparagus, bean sprouts and celery,
cucumbers, mushrooms, summer squash and zuchinni.
All should be fresh and not out of a can.
I'm probably leaving some out.


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## EarWax (Jul 18, 2002)

Good to know, thanks Chest Rockwell.  I never considered those veggies to be carbs... I always had bread and pasta on the mind.   I'll have to incorporate more of these into my diet.   Thanks!


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## w8lifter (Jul 18, 2002)

Chicken Baby....you kill me, lol 



> _*Originally posted by mama's boy *_
> 
> Just admit you're an antagonistic little bitch and we'll move on. (j/k)  LOL.



lmfao!



> If you are waking up to go to the bathroom its fine to slug down a protein shake and return to sleep.



I could never do this....I'd have to brush my teeth before I went back to sleep


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## Twin Peak (Jul 18, 2002)

Interesting sparring going on here.  I'd like to make one point though.  In GENERAL, the time of day does effect what you should eat.  Its quite basic that ones metabolism is faster in the morning and progressively slows throughout the day.  (Of course, you can alter this through workouts etc, I am talking IN GENERAL).


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## Robboe (Jul 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by mama's boy *_
> 
> 
> The key here is "Every two hours". My point was that if you're actually going to sleep, like for 8 hours- go keto (or as close to it as you can muster). Assuming you're not carb loading (the poster mentioned nothing of carb-loading), why set your metabolism on faster burning carbs (in relation to fat, fiber and protein) when you won't get any for the next 8 hours?



You're right, he never mentioned anything about carb loading - which is exactly more reason for you to _not_ just throw out a generalised statement like "avoid carbs like the plague".

And where did "keto" come from? You don't just suddenly go into ketosis by not eating carbs. Too much protein can keep you out of ketosis and if you have too much glycogen in your glycogen stores then you can go without carbs for a quite a while without hitting ketosis. I believe most people have glycogen in the 50-70 mol/dm range before they show even trace ketones in their piss. It usually takes most people 1-2 days to hit ketosis, although they can achieve MUCH quicker using higher doses of ALA.




> The same 200 cals, eaten in such a ratio as to put (or keep) the dieter in a ketogenic state will result in more FAT LOSS than carbs or carbs and protein, or a mixed meal.  The remaining 200 cals burned are much less likely to come from glucose or muscle breakdown.



Again, why are you going on about a "ketogenic state"? Are you thinking that low(er) carbs instantly means ketosis?

And you do realise that the body is in a constant state of breakdown and repair, right? So tissue (such as muscle) is constantly being broken down and repaired. People usually refer to it as breakdown and synthesis. Now, calories dictate overall whether this synthesis/breakdown balance will be negative or positive in the long run. ie calorie surplus = positive so growth, calorie deficit = negative so loss. At any time, the body is using fat and carbohydrate for fuel, but the level of activity decides what ratio they are used in (usually more aerobic = fat used mostly, more anaerobic = carbs used mostlym, as a general rule). Now, just like muscle tissue is a state of breakdown/synthesis, fat is also (since fat is also being burned for fuel throughout the day). So, just like muscle, if you take in more calories than you burn then you'll put weight on, if you eat less calories than you burn then you'll lose weight.



> Agreed. My original statement has nothing to do with carbs before bed being more likely to be stored as fat. It has more to do with meshing with the ketogenic nature of an 8 hour (or longer) fasting period. Slower digestion = better for fat burning/prevention of muscle loss.



Maybe so, but like i said earlier, you shouldn't just throw out a  generalised statement like that because people who don;t know better take it as fact no matter what the circumstances. Just be sure to cover all your bases.



> Just admit you're an antagonistic little bitch and we'll move on. (j/k)  LOL.



No.

I'm much, much worse than that.


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## mama's boy (Jul 19, 2002)

UGH. Not sure why I'm "biting" here, but.... Oh well, here goes: 



> You're right, he never mentioned anything about carb loading - which is exactly more reason for you to not just throw out a generalised statement like "avoid carbs like the plague".



I still think it's more effective to carb load post workout than right before bed, but you're right. I should've explained my original post more in detail. 



> And where did "keto" come from? You don't just suddenly go into ketosis by not eating carbs. Too much protein can keep you out of ketosis and if you have too much glycogen in your glycogen stores then you can go without carbs for a quite a while without hitting ketosis. I believe most people have glycogen in the 50-70 mol/dm range before they show even trace ketones in their piss. It usually takes most people 1-2 days to hit ketosis, although they can achieve MUCH quicker using higher doses of ALA.



I clearly explained that a ketogenic meal is high fat, moderate protein and low to zero carb in my original post. I suggest you go back and read it, apparently you missed some stuff. 



> Again, why are you going on about a "ketogenic state"? Are you thinking that low(er) carbs instantly means ketosis?



My reference to a ketogenic state does not refer to dietary ketosis. It refers to the 8 hour fasting period known commonly as sleep. Fasting periods of that duration are by nature ketogenic. 



> And you do realise that the body is in a constant state of breakdown and repair, right? So tissue (such as muscle) is constantly being broken down and repaired. People usually refer to it as breakdown and synthesis. Now, calories dictate overall whether this synthesis/breakdown balance will be negative or positive in the long run. ie calorie surplus = positive so growth, calorie deficit = negative so loss. At any time, the body is using fat and carbohydrate for fuel, but the level of activity decides what ratio they are used in (usually more aerobic = fat used mostly, more anaerobic = carbs used mostlym, as a general rule). Now, just like muscle tissue is a state of breakdown/synthesis, fat is also (since fat is also being burned for fuel throughout the day). So, just like muscle, if you take in more calories than you burn then you'll put weight on, if you eat less calories than you burn then you'll lose weight.



If I wanted a bad biology lesson I'd hop in a time machine and go back to 9th grade health class. We're talking fat loss, not weight loss... and if you're going to wax calorie defecit to me, at least realize that I agree with you in principle. 

That being said, caloric defecit does not work unniversally for fat loss. It only works when your body is burning fat for energy (like in a ketogenic state. Not dietary ketosis, a ketogenic state like fasting or post workout). If you're burning glucose/glycogen for energy- it will not work and you will burn muscle if there is a defecit (and stores are empty). 

Also... where did I say eat a 10,000 cal meal right before bed, as long as it's high fat, mod protein and no carbs? I didn't. I said; eat a slow releasing ketogenic meal. BECAUSE you're about to starve yourself for the next 8 hours (this is a very fair assumption). Anything wrong with this statement? Do you disagree with the advice? If so, speak up, offer a different suggestion and stop picking every retarded thing I say apart. 

So far, the only actual advice I can infer from your bitching is this: Eat less calories than you burn in a day if you're trying to lose weight. Eat more if you're trying to gain weight. Oh my god that's groundbreaking! 



> Maybe so, but like i said earlier, you shouldn't just throw out a generalised statement like that because people who don;t know better take it as fact no matter what the circumstances. Just be sure to cover all your bases.



Dude, dont tell me how to give advice until you actual give some yourself. All you've done in this thread is pick apart my posts for being not specific enough. 

I'm sorry if I sound like a jerk- but you're just either being REAL DENSE or REAL ARGUMENTATIVE. I can handle the former to some extent- but the latter is just a waste of time for the both of us. 

So- settle it. Give your advice. What should this guy eat before bed?


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## EarWax (Jul 19, 2002)

I propose a peace treaty  Can't we all just get along


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## david (Jul 19, 2002)

They both have good valid points.  I'd just do trial and error and whatever works best for me, then great!


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## Freeman (Jul 19, 2002)

*so a shake is good or what?*

Ok, so say tonight before I got to bed at like 11, can I make a 2scoop protein shake with fatfree milk?  or is that bad?  What if i add a spoonful of peanut butter?  maybe 2?  eh??


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## david (Jul 19, 2002)

I'll leave that for TCD and Mama's Boy to answer.  I go with what works for me.  In this case, pure protein like egg whites before I go to bed.  Sometimes, I'll throw in a green but very minimal amount!


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## Robboe (Jul 21, 2002)

I had a large response written out, but my pc crashed and i lost it. So here's some brief points of what i wrote:

- I agree, carb loading is a better ideal post workout, although the NHE plan does give several worthy reasons for pre-bedtime cab loading (the majority of it being directed towards the 'average' person with dieting problems like cravings etc...)

- In one of your replies you said "go keto" which lead me to think you were referring to getting into ketosis just before bed. That's why i asked you where you'd gotten keto from - i'm aware of what a ketogenic meal is.

- Like i said earlier, your body is always burning fat - it doesn't need to be in a ketogenic state for this to occur. The body will only breakdown muscle (and result in a net loss of muscle) when requirements of other organs outweigh the need for the muscle, which is when protein is sparse in the body. Most (although there are many, many exceptions) meals take around 8 hours to totally pass through the digestive system so sleep isn't as catabolic as most believe, but rightly said, something that takes longer to digest would be more beneficial. And while cutting, maybe not taking in carbs would have more favourable hormonal effects, but at the end of the day if calories are in surplus then it matters not, cause you're not gonna drop fat.

- "Eat less calories than you burn in a day if you're trying to lose weight. Eat more if you're trying to gain weight. Oh my god that's groundbreaking!"

It's also true.

- I _have_ given advice in this thread: weigh up your varibales before you decide whether to eat carbs before bed or not. I wasn't posting in here to suggest what to eat cause in the grand scheme of things (overall calories) it really isn't _that_ significant. And the other replies in the thread were fine.

- I wasn't posting to say eat carbs before bed, i wasn't posting to say not to. I was just pointing out that "avoiding carbs like the plague" isn't necessarily always true.


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## Robboe (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: so a shake is good or what?*



> _*Originally posted by freeman1504 *_
> Ok, so say tonight before I got to bed at like 11, can I make a 2scoop protein shake with fatfree milk?  or is that bad?  What if i add a spoonful of peanut butter?  maybe 2?  eh??




well some say a protein mix with casein is good, but i don't like any kind of shake before bed. I prefer solid food protein.

Because of the type of diet i'm currently on i usually eat protein (like tuna) with some fat (walnut oil) and some fibre (green veg like broccoli and cauliflower), but if i'm at work and i train later in the day and my carb meal happens to fall before bedtime then so be it.


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## Tank316 (Jul 21, 2002)

steak, 4-5 onces worth or if its really late[for convience] a blended   protien drink


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