# Swiper-inspired cycle and diet



## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 2, 2014)

Stats: 23 6' 240lbs

Just finishing up run of 1g test and 500mg primo with 100mg proviron. 
Will be switching to 1.5g test with 100mg proviron.

Diet will consist of:

Meal #1 oatmeal with protein powder

Meal #2 and #3 meat, egg, and cheese sandwich

Meal #4 and #5 rice, chicken, beans, and veggies

Post workout: protein shake and/or big bowl of cinnamon toast crunch or frosted mini wheats. 

I'm planning on starting this in 3 weeks and going through to summer at least. Would love to hear your opinions, especially swiper.


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## Warriorblaze (Mar 2, 2014)

I wanna be like swiper when I grow up too! 

Subbed. 


Warrior


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## HeyMrWaters (Mar 2, 2014)

Post workout you should make a shake and use that as the "milk" for your cereal. GICH 


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 2, 2014)

HeyMrWaters said:


> Post workout you should make a shake and use that as the "milk" for your cereal. GICH
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That's usually what I do haha. That's what I meant by the "and" part of the "and/or"


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## HeyMrWaters (Mar 2, 2014)

Haha you're always 2 steps ahead of me bjm!

Looks like you'll be sticking with the bolo bulk mode for the time being. I'll be following.


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## World-Pharma.org (Mar 2, 2014)

i think you dont need so much testosterone!!!


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 2, 2014)

World-Pharma.org said:


> i think you dont need so much testosterone!!!



What makes you say that WP?

for a bit of explanation (aka why this "swiper-inspired"), swiper stays on 2g minimum test year round with a similar diet and has my goal physique. There's gotta be something to it. So I'm using myself as a guinea pig to see how I respond to that high of a dose (never used that much before).


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## keith1569 (Mar 2, 2014)

Subbed!


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## Mccringleberry (Mar 2, 2014)

World-Pharma.org said:


> i think you dont need so much testosterone!!!



I love that the sponsor that sells test is saying you're using too much test.  1.5g is a bunch.  I'd like to follow a log if you plan on keeping one. I'll sub this thread too. I've not even done a gram yet.


What ancillaries are you going to use?


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 2, 2014)

Mccringleberry said:


> I love that the sponsor that sells test is saying you're using too much test.  1.5g is a bunch.  I'd like to follow a log if you plan on keeping one. I'll sub this thread too. I've not even done a gram yet.
> 
> 
> What ancillaries are you going to use?



Haha good point. I'll keep a loose log in this thread. Not daily updates or anything though

Seeing as I've never gone to this high of a test dose the ancillaries may change through the run. But you can count on me using letro regularly and having nolva on hand. With the proviron, I won't need that much AI I would think though. At least I don't now with current stack, bloodwork confirmed this.


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## Mccringleberry (Mar 2, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Haha good point. I'll keep a loose log in this thread. Not daily updates or anything though
> 
> Seeing as I've never gone to this high of a test dose the ancillaries may change through the run. But you can count on me using letro regularly and having nolva on hand. With the proviron, I won't need that much AI I would think though. At least I don't now with current stack, bloodwork confirmed this.



Thanks for the response.  I've heard a lot of good things about proviron. I think the only negative was if you were prone to mpb it could cause hair loss.  I'm going to look into it for next time around.


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## theCaptn' (Mar 2, 2014)

Subbed.... Good luck!


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## keith1569 (Mar 2, 2014)

You will love proviron!! I love the stuff in all cycles always


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 2, 2014)

keith1569 said:


> You will love proviron!! I love the stuff in all cycles always



I've used it before and am currently on it... Couldn't agree more


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## Daimonos (Mar 2, 2014)

hey man,you need to dirt up your diet if u are trying to look like swiper 
too much healty food


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## tl0311 (Mar 2, 2014)

Missing the 10 iu hgh lol.
I'll be running 1.8g test next cycle too.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 2, 2014)

tl0311 said:


> Missing the 10 iu hgh lol.
> I'll be running 1.8g test next cycle too.



Not enough funds  but I'm thinking 4 weeks on 4 weeks off of ghrp2 CJC no dac igf1.


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## jorjorbinx (Mar 5, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Not enough funds  but I'm thinking 4 weeks on 4 weeks off of ghrp2 CJC no dac igf1.



Try the ghrp-6 if your tryin to bulk get that tummy making noises like you have never heard lol


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 5, 2014)

jorjorbinx said:


> Try the ghrp-6 if your tryin to bulk get that tummy making noises like you have never heard lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I get bigger appetite boost from ghrp2


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## tl0311 (Mar 5, 2014)

ghrp-2 makes me hungry as fuck


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## tl0311 (Mar 5, 2014)

and some would argue that making your body produce more HGH is more effective. I don't know. but I don't really feel like spending a bunch of money on hgh. peps is where its at


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## jorjorbinx (Mar 5, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> I get bigger appetite boost from ghrp2



awesome i didnt know it had the same effect or even more of an effect than ghrp-6 

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## s2h (Mar 5, 2014)

Will be following...I like the Swiper diet...its kinda like mine


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## keith1569 (Mar 5, 2014)

Ghrp-6 makes me a. Lot more hungry than 2


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## bushmaster (Mar 6, 2014)

Will be following along. Seems we are on the same path but now I am 250lbs. Now this will be a real contest. 

I think you will need the AI even with proviron. I am using 1mg adex ed but I am doing more test than you also.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 6, 2014)

bushmaster said:


> Will be following along. Seems we are on the same path but now I am 250lbs. Now this will be a real contest.
> 
> I think you will need the AI even with proviron. I am using 1mg adex ed but I am doing more test than you also.



I have adex, asin, letro, and nolva on hand just in case. I'm biggest fan of letro in all honesty. It's what has been my tried and true AI. I go for 1.5mg Letro 25mg nolva ED when nips start getting itchy then gone within 2 weeks never to return.


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## bushmaster (Mar 6, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> I have adex, asin, letro, and nolva on hand just in case. I'm biggest fan of letro in all honesty. It's what has been my tried and true AI. I go for 1.5mg Letro 25mg nolva ED when nips start getting itchy then gone within 2 weeks never to return.



I like aromasin as its a suicide inhibitor. No rebound.


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## skinnyguy180 (Mar 6, 2014)

I think its important to note that swiper, while a complete bad ass, is the exception not the rule.

having said that good luck man looks solid.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 6, 2014)

skinnyguy180 said:


> I think its important to note that swiper, while a complete bad ass, is the exception not the rule.
> 
> having said that good luck man looks solid.



What part of what he does are you considering an exception? Diet, training, or AAS use? 

I must've missed the rule book that says eating tons of food and lifting high volume with high test and gh for many years doesn't get you jacked haha.


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## skinnyguy180 (Mar 6, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> What part of what he does are you considering an exception? Diet, training, or AAS use?
> 
> I must've missed the rule book that says eating tons of food and lifting high volume with high test and gh for many years doesn't get you jacked haha.



Uhh the part about mega doses and being able to stay on 2g grams of test for years and not have any problems or eating like a savage everyday of your life not paying close attention to it really.  

You think that KOS could eat like that?
Ask heavy what he would look like if he ate that diet every day?- i dont know the answer to this
And how many of us can use that kind of gear for that long and not run into issues with sides?  

I think that most people on this board if did a 5 year cycle of 2 grams a week and ate his diet would be a massive unaesthetic ball of side effects.  He is genetically made for this.

Keep in mind I did not say anything about your cycle or diet Just that "swiper" is the exception not the rule and wished you well.


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## bushmaster (Mar 6, 2014)

I agree and disagree with the above. Maybe not as high as swiper but definitely higher cruises and blasts. Unaesthetic because of training alone which is easily remedied. I have probably one of the most complete training programs around. But the only thing I do different is my food selections. I won't be doing cereal or anything processed.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 6, 2014)

skinnyguy180 said:


> Uhh the part about mega doses and being able to stay on 2g grams of test for years and not have any problems or eating like a savage everyday of your life not paying close attention to it really.
> 
> You think that KOS could eat like that?
> Ask heavy what he would look like if he ate that diet every day?- i dont know the answer to this
> ...



Gotcha. I'm curious for someone older to respond because I'm a young guy.

From my experience I don't really see why the majority of people can't do this while monitoring bloodwork and dealing with sides as they come (maybe not 2g test but whatever their sweet spot is). And maybe with 1-2 lower carb higher fat days per week to keep insulin sensitivity up.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 6, 2014)

bushmaster said:


> I agree and disagree with the above. Maybe not as high as swiper but definitely higher cruises and blasts. Unaesthetic because of training alone which is easily remedied. I have probably one of the most complete training programs around. But the only thing I do different is my food selections. I won't be doing cereal or anything processed.



What's your reasoning for no cereal/processed foods? 

I agree with everything you said here. Also all of my food I'm eating here is organic and made fresh. I don't even like storing cooked food longer than 2 days.


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## bushmaster (Mar 6, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> What's your reasoning for no cereal/processed foods?
> 
> I agree with everything you said here. Also all of my food I'm eating here is organic and made fresh. I don't even like storing cooked food longer than 2 days.



Just the way my body feels really and its hard to get very low to no fat in those meals. I like 3g of fat at most during my intra and pwo meals combined. I have a 70g carb (glycofuse), 20g pro (peptopro) intra. Pwo I take my gh then 20 min later have 90g pro and 200g carbs from rice or cream of rice. Cream of rice is my favorite carb.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 6, 2014)

bushmaster said:


> Just the way my body feels really and its hard to get very low to no fat in those meals. I like 3g of fat at most during my intra and pwo meals combined. I have a 70g carb (glycofuse), 20g pro (peptopro) intra. Pwo I take my gh then 20 min later have 90g pro and 200g carbs from rice or cream of rice. Cream of rice is my favorite carb.



Nice. Brown long grain rice is my favorite carb. Aside from cereal 

That's a lot of intra workout carbs. And this is your protocol without injecting any slin?? Geez lol.


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## bushmaster (Mar 6, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Nice. Brown long grain rice is my favorite carb. Aside from cereal
> 
> That's a lot of intra workout carbs. And this is your protocol without injecting any slin?? Geez lol.



I would do the same with slin. But we eat differently. I do carb back loading so all carbs are intra, pwo and before bed only.


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## skinnyguy180 (Mar 6, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Gotcha. I'm curious for someone older to respond because I'm a young guy.
> 
> From my experience I don't really see why the majority of people can't do this *while monitoring bloodwork and dealing with sides as they come* (maybe not 2g test but whatever their sweet spot is). And maybe with 1-2 lower carb higher fat days per week to keep insulin sensitivity up.



I'm more referring sides Like blood pressure, Cholesterol, Kidney and liver issues.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 6, 2014)

bushmaster said:


> I would do the same with slin. But we eat differently. I do carb back loading so all carbs are intra, pwo and before bed only.



And you found this more effective than front loading and evenly spaced?? During bulking and cutting? 

I like carb cycling days rather than throughout each day. I'll be having 2 low carb days when I start this with carbs only at meal 1 and post workout.


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## bushmaster (Mar 6, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> And you found this more effective than front loading and evenly spaced?? During bulking and cutting?
> 
> I like carb cycling days rather than throughout each day. I'll be having 2 low carb days when I start this with carbs only at meal 1 and post workout.



I do. Also helps with sleep and keeping bodyfat down. 

I will be eating 50-75g less carbs on just my pump workouts. I am training everyday again. 4 heavy ans 3 pump days.


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## skinnyguy180 (Mar 6, 2014)

bushmaster said:


> I do. Also helps with sleep and keeping bodyfat down.
> 
> I will be eating 50-75g less carbs on just my pump workouts.* I am training everyday again*. 4 heavy ans 3 pump days.




So I take it you don't believe in CNS recovery?


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## bushmaster (Mar 6, 2014)

skinnyguy180 said:


> So I take it you don't believe in CNS recovery?



I do hence nothing cns taxing is on pump days. I train under John Meadows. I have done 4 of his 12 week programs.


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## skinnyguy180 (Mar 6, 2014)

bushmaster said:


> I do hence nothing cns taxing is on pump days. I train under John Meadows. I have done 4 of his 12 week programs.




I was just asking cause a lot of guys think its bull shit.  I dont know enough about it or have the time to even work out that much so for me its a mute point.


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## bushmaster (Mar 6, 2014)

skinnyguy180 said:


> I was just asking cause a lot of guys think its bull shit.  I dont know enough about it or have the time to even work out that much so for me its a mute point.



Its definitely possible but I am on 1800mg test ans 4iu of gh. I also have tons of calories during and after my workout. Most pros under Milos Sarcev trained everyday and even sometimes twice a day. If nutrition is spot on its possible. Slin also helps tremendously.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 6, 2014)

bushmaster said:


> Its definitely possible but I am on 1800mg test ans 4iu of gh. I also have tons of calories during and after my workout. Most pros under Milos Sarcev trained everyday and even sometimes twice a day. If nutrition is spot on its possible. Slin also helps tremendously.



Yeah I knew that about Milos' clients. Hmm may add an intra workout shake..


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## bushmaster (Mar 6, 2014)

http://www.rxmuscle.com/2013-01-11-...eek-john-and-shelby-welcome-milos-sarcev.html


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## jorjorbinx (Mar 6, 2014)

bushmaster said:


> http://www.rxmuscle.com/2013-01-11-...eek-john-and-shelby-welcome-milos-sarcev.html



awesome iv read all of shelbys books and had no idea he had a radio show

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## vassille (Mar 6, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Not enough funds  but I'm thinking 4 weeks on 4 weeks off of ghrp2 CJC no dac igf1.



You may be ok without the gh as you only 23 and should be high anyway. 
Good luck


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## theCaptn' (Mar 16, 2014)

Updates!?


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 16, 2014)

Starting 1g test e 400mg deca next week. With 3x100mcg pins of CJC 1295 no dac and ghrp2 everyday.

I want the joint benefits from deca. Feeling dry lately. And will up test every 4 weeks until I hit a "sweet spot"


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## bushmaster (Mar 16, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Starting 1g test e 400mg deca next week. With 3x100mcg pins of CJC 1295 no dac and ghrp2 everyday.
> 
> I want the joint benefits from deca. Feeling dry lately. And will up test every 4 weeks until I hit a "sweet spot"



Looks good. I am loving my 1.8g of test.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 16, 2014)

bushmaster said:


> Looks good. I am loving my 1.8g of test.



 

That's awesome. 

I really want massive fucking arms. And really high volume has been working for me but the rest of my body is growing too so my arms still look puny. 

Considering making my own site enhancing oil using 2% BA 48% mct oil 50% safflower oil (obviously filtered) and pinning 3ml in each bicep head and each tricep head for about a month and see what happens. Thoughts?

Rich pianas arms basically make me wet my pants on a consistent basis lol


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## Darkhrse99 (Mar 16, 2014)

bushmaster said:


> Looks good. I am loving my 1.8g of test.


How high have you gone? How did you know it was your sweet spot?


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## bushmaster (Mar 16, 2014)

Darkhrse99 said:


> How high have you gone? How did you know it was your sweet spot?



Haven't gone much higher and don't know its my sweet spot. So far bp is 124/68 and all lipids look great.


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## bushmaster (Mar 16, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> That's awesome.
> 
> I really want massive fucking arms. And really high volume has been working for me but the rest of my body is growing too so my arms still look puny.
> 
> ...



Never messed with SEO's. Always afraid I will mess up my physique. If you do find someone who really knows what they are doing.


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## heavyiron (Mar 16, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> That's awesome.
> 
> I really want massive fucking arms. And really high volume has been working for me but the rest of my body is growing too so my arms still look puny.
> 
> ...


Practice with some Prop first. 1-2 ml in each spot. You can really fuck up your look with SEO.


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## Darkhrse99 (Mar 16, 2014)

bushmaster said:


> Haven't gone much higher and don't know its my sweet spot. So far bp is 124/68 and all lipids look great.



Cool, thanks for the reply!


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 16, 2014)

heavyiron said:


> Practice with some Prop first. 1-2 ml in each spot. You can really fuck up your look with SEO.



I already did a lot of my pins of 1.4ml test e 1.6ml primo in biceps and triceps.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 16, 2014)

And it wasn't bad. And I like how it looks. But dissipates in 2-3 days. So I'm excited/want to see how an SEO would look


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## HFO3 (Mar 16, 2014)

Injecting SEO??  Think "measure twice cut once"


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 16, 2014)

HFO3 said:


> Injecting SEO??  Think "measure twice cut once"



I don't get the expression... Lol


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## skinnyguy180 (Mar 17, 2014)

Dude your 23.  You don't need SEO.  You have plenty of time to get the bis you really want.


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## heavyiron (Mar 17, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> And it wasn't bad. And I like how it looks. But dissipates in 2-3 days. So I'm excited/want to see how an SEO would look


Try Propionate brother. Thank me later.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 17, 2014)

heavyiron said:


> Try Propionate brother. Thank me later.



I've heard tren ace and prop work best postworkout as far as gear for an SEO. Yet they're short esters so you'd think they dissipate quicker maybe? Any reason behind that?


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## heavyiron (Mar 17, 2014)

Prop causes an inflammatory response in most guys. It works well for your goal. Fire those arms up this week EOD with Prop and you will see.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 17, 2014)

heavyiron said:


> Prop causes an inflammatory response in most guys. It works well for your goal. Fire those arms up this week EOD with Prop and you will see.



Interesting. I'll go for it next week. As I'm starting this blast next week anyway so a front load never hurts


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## heavyiron (Mar 17, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Interesting. I'll go for it next week. As I'm starting this blast next week anyway so a front load never hurts


You can literally rotate with just arms ED if you want. Find 4 spots to pin and hit one spot ED on one arm and rotate the sites.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 17, 2014)

heavyiron said:


> You can literally rotate with just arms ED if you want. Find 4 spots to pin and hit one spot ED on one arm and rotate the sites.



Thanks heavy. What do you think of:

Beginning with 500mg test e 400mg deca 100mg proviron and increasing test by 250mg every 4 weeks for the foreseeable future. 

Got any suggestions for gaining more mass?


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## Darkhrse99 (Mar 17, 2014)

heavyiron said:


> You can literally rotate with just arms ED if you want. Find 4 spots to pin and hit one spot ED on one arm and rotate the sites.



What size pin would you suggest?


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 17, 2014)

Darkhrse99 said:


> What size pin would you suggest?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I've done and will likely use 25g 1" curious as to Heavys opinion too


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## heavyiron (Mar 17, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Thanks heavy. What do you think of:
> 
> Beginning with 500mg test e 400mg deca 100mg proviron and increasing test by 250mg every 4 weeks for the foreseeable future.
> 
> Got any suggestions for gaining more mass?


I would pin like 200 mg prop ED on your arm rotation so that's 1,400 mg weekly to start. You can add the long esters also =)

Eat big and eat clean 90% of the time is how many guys gain mass. 10% of the time you can eat big and dirty as a general rule but each person responds differently. Some can add more junk than others.


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## heavyiron (Mar 17, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> I've done and will likely use 25g 1" curious as to Heavys opinion too


Yup, that will work well.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 17, 2014)

heavyiron said:


> I would pin like 200 mg prop ED on your arm rotation so that's 1,400 mg weekly to start. You can add the long esters also =)
> 
> Eat big and eat clean 90% of the time is how many guys gain mass. 10% of the time you can eat big and dirty as a general rule but each person responds differently. Some can add more junk than others.



Damn haha. This is gonna get interesting


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## Rayjay1 (Mar 18, 2014)

^^Yeah.  Definitely watching this space...


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## bushmaster (Mar 18, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Damn haha. This is gonna get interesting



Better step it up I am already full throttle!


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 18, 2014)

bushmaster said:


> Better step it up I am already full throttle!



Don't think I hit the breaks for a second  I'm at a lean 239lbs. I'm ready to take it up a notch and get those 20"+ arms. (At 18.5" flexed now)


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## jorjorbinx (Mar 18, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Don't think I hit the breaks for a second  I'm at a lean 239lbs. I'm ready to take it up a notch and get those 20"+ arms. (At 18.5" flexed now)


how tall are you bro


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 18, 2014)

jorjorbinx said:


> how tall are you bro
> 
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk



6' even. Looking to get to 280+lbs eventually


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## HFO3 (Mar 18, 2014)

cmon bro where's the pics! haha


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 18, 2014)

HFO3 said:


> cmon bro where's the pics! haha



My WP log with final pics is still up over at ASF. http://anabolicsteroidforums.com/showthread.php?t=15930

Attached a link.. Should work


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## jorjorbinx (Mar 18, 2014)

the pictures dont do you justice bro. get someone to take them for you next time. i would of never guessed your 232

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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 18, 2014)

jorjorbinx said:


> the pictures dont do you justice bro. get someone to take them for you next time. i would of never guessed your 232
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk



239  my back and legs are my strong points


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## jorjorbinx (Mar 18, 2014)

ahh that makes brother 

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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 21, 2014)

Official plan starting Monday:
At least for a week then well see after that:
Odd days: test prop 200mg into bicep long head split bilaterally
Even days: test prop 200mg into tricep lateral head split bilaterally
(Both first thing in morning after a push-up set to failure)
Week 1-4: test e 500mg deca 400mg per week and increasing test e 250mg every 4 weeks. 

Proviron 100mg/day (noticed I've gotten way hairier since starting proviron lol I'm guessing it's from freeing up receptors)

150mcg CJC1295 no dac ghrp6 3x per day (first thing morning/post workout/before bed)


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## _LG_ (Mar 21, 2014)

Sounds painful


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 21, 2014)

_LG_ said:


> Sounds painful



Nahh haha more scar tissue the better  I'll also be stretching/foam rolling and doing a lot of mobility work


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## jorjorbinx (Mar 21, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Official plan starting Monday:
> At least for a week then well see after that:
> Odd days: test prop 200mg into bicep long head split bilaterally
> Even days: test prop 200mg into tricep lateral head split bilaterally
> ...



do you do pushups every morning? 

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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 21, 2014)

jorjorbinx said:


> do you do pushups every morning?
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk



Not currently but I was reading about using prop as an SEO and it works way better if you have a pump. And it'll double as my "fasted cardio" haha may even make it max rep burpees for ~5 min some days.


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## jorjorbinx (Mar 21, 2014)

good idea big bro

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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 21, 2014)

Any questions/suggestions/comments/concerns?? Lol 

I'm pumped to see results from this. Will definitely be highest test I've run to date


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## Darkhrse99 (Mar 21, 2014)

What size pins are you using for your arms?


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 21, 2014)

Darkhrse99 said:


> What size pins are you using for your arms?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



25g 1" for all gear. Slin pins for peps


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## Darkhrse99 (Mar 21, 2014)

1" also for bi's too?


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 21, 2014)

Darkhrse99 said:


> 1" also for bi's too?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yes sir. Fully buried


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## tl0311 (Mar 21, 2014)

Always been sketched about pinning bis


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 21, 2014)

tl0311 said:


> Always been sketched about pinning bis



I was at first too. Still don't like pinning short head.. But long head is easy and just feels pumped for a few days


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## Darkhrse99 (Mar 21, 2014)

How many cc's do you per injection?


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## HeyMrWaters (Mar 21, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Any questions/suggestions/comments/concerns?? Lol
> 
> I'm pumped to see results from this. Will definitely be highest test I've run to date



Take before/after arm measurements!


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 21, 2014)

Darkhrse99 said:


> How many cc's do you per injection?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Max 3cc (when with the test e and deca) per injection. But as little as 1cc. 

And will definitely take before/after measurements. Aiming for 20"+ after 4 weeks


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## jorjorbinx (Mar 21, 2014)

tl0311 said:


> Always been sketched about pinning bis



i did biceps today for the first time with 25g 1inch and it was a breeze i dont know why i waited so long to try them. i put 1.8ml in each. maybe lats next time thats unmarked territory too

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## HFO3 (Mar 21, 2014)

please post a picture of where are you guys injecting your biceps, when I look at my bicep I see no way, lol


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## Darkhrse99 (Mar 21, 2014)

HFO3 said:


> please post a picture of where are you guys injecting your biceps, when I look at my bicep I see no way, lol



I'd like to see too, I have an injection tonight and might try the bicep.


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## HeyMrWaters (Mar 21, 2014)

I'm assuming something like this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Not sure I've yet to venture there yet myself 


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## jorjorbinx (Mar 21, 2014)

HFO3 said:


> please post a picture of where are you guys injecting your biceps, when I look at my bicep I see no way, lol








right in the middle and to the side of your vein 

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## Darkhrse99 (Mar 21, 2014)

Does anyone worry about hitting a bone?


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## jorjorbinx (Mar 21, 2014)

Darkhrse99 said:


> Does anyone worry about hitting a bone?



no way just jab it in. you see my arms are. no where near big and i put 1inch all the way

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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 21, 2014)

Haha I was worried about hitting a bone the first few times but it's just as irrational as worrying about hitting a bone on your quad. I like arms a lot cause you have full control over syringe and needle and if you need to push hard you're at a good angle unlike delt or glute


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## Darkhrse99 (Mar 21, 2014)

How many cc's would you start out at?


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 21, 2014)

Darkhrse99 said:


> How many cc's would you start out at?



First ever bicep/tricep injections I did was MTR with a slin pin and was really easy. If you're going for site enhancement I'd say no less than 1cc of gear though from what I've read. I've done 3cc pretty consistently but never more than twice per week so this run with prop as an SEO should be fun


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## jorjorbinx (Mar 21, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> First ever bicep/tricep injections I did was MTR with a slin pin and was really easy. If you're going for site enhancement I'd say no less than 1cc of gear though from what I've read. I've done 3cc pretty consistently but never more than twice per week so this run with prop as an SEO should be fun



is that the only ester that causes inflammation im using ethanate right now

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## Darkhrse99 (Mar 21, 2014)

I think I'll try 2cc's in a little bit and see how it goes lol.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 21, 2014)

According to what I've read tren ace and test prop are ideal to use as an SEO because of the inflammation. I've injected a lot of test e and primo and arms are ~.2 inches bigger for a few days but goes away quickly


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## Darkhrse99 (Mar 21, 2014)

Well I just pinned 1 cc in each arm. It wasn't as bad as I expected, just hope they don't hurt like a bitch over the next few days! Now off to workout chest.


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## HFO3 (Mar 21, 2014)

what is your goal from injecting AAS in your biceps?


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 21, 2014)

HFO3 said:


> what is your goal from injecting AAS in your biceps?



I'm trying to get site enhancement benefits from it


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## Darkhrse99 (Mar 21, 2014)

I need to pin a lot, so more places the better.


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## HFO3 (Mar 21, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> I'm trying to get site enhancement benefits from it



https://www.synthetek.com
This may be helpful

Oily vehicle	            Viscosity                 	T1/2
Ethyl oleate	                 3.9	                      10 days
Fractionated coconut oil	15	                       1 week
Sesame oil.                	35	                      1 month
Arachidis oil	                35.2	                      23 days
Castor oil	                       286	                      Indefinitely


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 21, 2014)

HFO3 said:


> https://www.synthetek.com
> This may be helpful
> 
> Oily vehicle            Viscosity                 T1/2
> ...



So cut my gear with castor oil?? Haha no thanks. Fuck pre made SEOs... Full of junk


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## HFO3 (Mar 21, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> So cut my gear with castor oil?? Haha no thanks. Fuck pre made SEOs... Full of junk



LOL, just trying to help, hahaha...
I have no site enhancement oil experience, but I'm certain what you're injecting will not give you any site specific size man.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 22, 2014)

HFO3 said:


> LOL, just trying to help, hahaha...
> I have no site enhancement oil experience, but I'm certain what you're injecting will not give you any site specific size man.



Haha my bad if I came off aggressive..

What makes you say that? Did you read this whole thread

I'm by no means convinced that pinning prop into biceps/triceps consistently will produce any site specific size but I'll let the measuring tape determine that... Heavy and other very reputable people I've consulted say prop would produce the most results of any gear as a site enhancer. So I'm willing to use myself as a guinea pig


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## Darkhrse99 (Mar 22, 2014)

Holy fuck do my arms hurt lol. I feel like a gimp haha. 


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## HFO3 (Mar 22, 2014)

no not at all brother

I have never injected my biceps so maybe I am wrong, but If what heavy says is true, I should have been injecting my chest a long ass time ago haha! we'll see soon



BlueJayMuscle said:


> Haha my bad if I came off aggressive..
> 
> What makes you say that? Did you read this whole thread
> 
> I'm by no means convinced that pinning prop into biceps/triceps consistently will produce any site specific size but I'll let the measuring tape determine that... Heavy and other very reputable people I've consulted say prop would produce the most results of any gear as a site enhancer. So I'm willing to use myself as a guinea pig


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 22, 2014)

HFO3 said:


> no not at all brother
> 
> I have never injected my biceps so maybe I am wrong, but If what heavy says is true, I should have been injecting my chest a long ass time ago haha! we'll see soon



Injecting chest is a huge bitch in my opinion. Done it a few times and knots up pretty badly. Not a big fan..


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## theCaptn' (Mar 22, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Injecting chest is a huge bitch in my opinion. Done it a few times and knots up pretty badly. Not a big fan..



I've got 3 areas on my pecs I slin pin - rotate between pecs-tris- occasional delts. It's only 0.8-1.0ml ED but I've had no issue. Can't say whether I've had any direct growth because of it.


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## HFO3 (Mar 22, 2014)

It seems a no ester AAS might be more beneficial for site injections due to no ester, an instant release of the hormone at the same spot over time seems logical that it might make a difference because the hormone is already active. I think you're going to experience swelling that will subside and that's about all


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 23, 2014)

HFO3 said:


> It seems a no ester AAS might be more beneficial for site injections due to no ester, an instant release of the hormone at the same spot over time seems logical that it might make a difference because the hormone is already active. I think you're going to experience swelling that will subside and that's about all



The idea (for all SEOs) is that the oil is stretching the fascia and as it dissipates muscle fills in that space. Fascia is the biggest limiter of muscular hypertrophy to my knowledge. So stretching that fascia would allow more muscle growth. Period. 

The actual swelling due to gear is obviously temporary but with the swelling consistent over 4 weeks hopefully muscle will fill in that space by the end and I'll keep the size. But like I said measurements will tell more than anything


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## HFO3 (Mar 23, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> The idea (for all SEOs) is that the oil is stretching the fascia and as it dissipates muscle fills in that space. Fascia is the biggest limiter of muscular hypertrophy to my knowledge. So stretching that fascia would allow more muscle growth. Period.
> 
> The actual swelling due to gear is obviously temporary but with the swelling consistent over 4 weeks hopefully muscle will fill in that space by the end and I'll keep the size. But like I said measurements will tell more than anything



Thank you for explaining your method of madness I am all in here brother


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 23, 2014)

should be fun!


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 25, 2014)

Day 2 of this... Using the green lady's TPA instead of prop for the bicep injection and the injection is easy but afterwards... Ow.. I see what heavy meant by inflammation haha. Definitely swollen.. Pull-ups today were deadly


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## Darkhrse99 (Mar 25, 2014)

How long were your arms inflamed? I injected Friday and my left one feels okay today, but my right still hurts like a bitch and is warm to the touch.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 25, 2014)

I did both biceps yesterday and both triceps today lol. Both of my arms are very swollen. I'll measure with a tape measure tomorrow morning.


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## heavyiron (Mar 25, 2014)

=)


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## s2h (Mar 25, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> The idea (for all SEOs) is that the oil is stretching the fascia and as it dissipates muscle fills in that space. Fascia is the biggest limiter of muscular hypertrophy to my knowledge. So stretching that fascia would allow more muscle growth. Period.
> 
> The actual swelling due to gear is obviously temporary but with the swelling consistent over 4 weeks hopefully muscle will fill in that space by the end and I'll keep the size. But like I said measurements will tell more than anything



anything oil based will stretch fascia...but the effects are very limited when AAS are used...mainly due to lower volume and dosing schedules of AAS...some people will add oil to there injections to increase the stretch of the fascia...even up to 5-6cc's..the key is to get the oil as deep as possible into the muscle with oil that are of a thicker base...so cottonseed will work much better then MCT oil..so then why are most or all SEO's MCT based..well its due to the issue that for someone to effectively use SEO it needs to be injected 3-4 times a day...or at least in the onset...in the end once SEO is discontinued the fascia will tighten right back up as it runs the entire length of your body like a coat...so if your site injecting your biceps your going to cause the fascia to tighten in other areas near by...allowing for less room..

in my experience scar tissue works well to fill in small areas that are problematic ....there's actually someone on this board(who may chime in)that had small intentions on the inner part of his pecs..and when he was real lean they were noticeable..i mentioned to him about site injecting that area starting on the nearest edge were the muscle ended with slin pins for a lengthy period of time to allow the scar tissue to fill the void..it worked..

SEO's or site injecting oil work for the short term unless you hit one area very steady to allow scar tissue to fill the area out..but it can be dicey and even slight adjustments to the pin site by mm's may need to be done to evenly fill it out..


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 26, 2014)

s2h said:


> anything oil based will stretch fascia...but the effects are very limited when AAS are used...mainly due to lower volume and dosing schedules of AAS...some people will add oil to there injections to increase the stretch of the fascia...even up to 5-6cc's..the key is to get the oil as deep as possible into the muscle with oil that are of a thicker base...so cottonseed will work much better then MCT oil..so then why are most or all SEO's MCT based..well its due to the issue that for someone to effectively use SEO it needs to be injected 3-4 times a day...or at least in the onset...in the end once SEO is discontinued the fascia will tighten right back up as it runs the entire length of your body like a coat...so if your site injecting your biceps your going to cause the fascia to tighten in other areas near by...allowing for less room..
> 
> in my experience scar tissue works well to fill in small areas that are problematic ....there's actually someone on this board(who may chime in)that had small intentions on the inner part of his pecs..and when he was real lean they were noticeable..i mentioned to him about site injecting that area starting on the nearest edge were the muscle ended with slin pins for a lengthy period of time to allow the scar tissue to fill the void..it worked..
> 
> SEO's or site injecting oil work for the short term unless you hit one area very steady to allow scar tissue to fill the area out..but it can be dicey and even slight adjustments to the pin site by mm's may need to be done to evenly fill it out..



Interesting. So how would you explain someone like bostin loyd's SEO results with his arms and chest? (I know bad source.. But he's the only public figure I know of who has made his SEO routine public) 

He did 3ml of painless pumps (I think he also did another "cycle" with syntherol) per day for a week then 1ml EOD for 4 weeks I believe for the bicep and tricep and his arms grew something like 3" and that size has stayed for over a year.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 26, 2014)

Left arm is .3" bigger and right arm is .4" bigger since measured on Sunday. Injected in biceps again today


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## HeyMrWaters (Mar 26, 2014)

20" arms by May or bust


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 28, 2014)

Injecting in biceps for third time today (triceps twice already) arms feel so pumped all the time. Can't really straighten them out completely lol. Will measure today to see size difference. People have commented saying they look big


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## bushmaster (Mar 28, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Interesting. So how would you explain someone like bostin loyd's SEO results with his arms and chest? (I know bad source.. But he's the only public figure I know of who has made his SEO routine public)
> 
> He did 3ml of painless pumps (I think he also did another "cycle" with syntherol) per day for a week then 1ml EOD for 4 weeks I believe for the bicep and tricep and his arms grew something like 3" and that size has stayed for over a year.



S2h was talking about me and the scar tissue did help to fill in a gap on my inner chest. 

I think any seo's are a dumb idea. Sure you gain now but they have been proven to also cause necrosis. Look at some of the pros that abused them. They look great at the time. Years later when you may change your goals you're stuck with dumb looking arms. Just my opinion. I'd rather see someone find what training method works through trial and error.


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## bushmaster (Mar 28, 2014)

Oh and bringing bostin loyd into any conversation basically ruins any validity you may have had.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 28, 2014)

bushmaster said:


> Oh and bringing bostin loyd into any conversation basically ruins any validity you may have had.



Bahaha fair enough. I'm not arguing a position by any means. Just trying to learn. 

And regardless of mine or your qualms with him he is pretty damn big now.


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## bushmaster (Mar 28, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Bahaha fair enough. I'm not arguing a position by any means. Just trying to learn.
> 
> And regardless of mine or your qualms with him he is pretty damn big now.



His legs still don't match his upper body.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 28, 2014)

bushmaster said:


> His legs still don't match his upper body.



Nor do Ben Pakulski's or a number of other pros as well as mine for that matter haha. 

Well arms are up 1" as of today. Quite inflamed. Very warm to the touch. And tight. Not gonna do any more and see if the size stays around. 

Introducing dbol in next week. I typically blow up on dbol (bad balloon face) gonna try and keep it a bit drier this time. Any tips? Also bumping proviron down to 50mg to see if I notice any difference.


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## bushmaster (Mar 28, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Nor do Ben Pakulski's or a number of other pros as well as mine for that matter haha.
> 
> Well arms are up 1" as of today. Quite inflamed. Very warm to the touch. And tight. Not gonna do any more and see if the size stays around.
> 
> Introducing dbol in next week. I typically blow up on dbol (bad balloon face) gonna try and keep it a bit drier this time. Any tips? Also bumping proviron down to 50mg to see if I notice any difference.



Keep sodium in diet consistent and keep estro in check and water retention shouldn't be an issue.


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## Darkhrse99 (Mar 28, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Nor do Ben Pakulski's or a number of other pros as well as mine for that matter haha.
> 
> Well arms are up 1" as of today. Quite inflamed. Very warm to the touch. And tight. Not gonna do any more and see if the size stays around.
> 
> Introducing dbol in next week. I typically blow up on dbol (bad balloon face) gonna try and keep it a bit drier this time. Any tips? Also bumping proviron down to 50mg to see if I notice any difference.


Are your arms in pain at all? My arms felt very similar to what you mentioned and the size has left a week later.



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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 28, 2014)

Darkhrse99 said:


> Are your arms in pain at all? My arms felt very similar to what you mentioned and the size has left a week later.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



In pain when I flex hard. I've felt this way every time I've injected bis/tris. But I've never done it this many times consistently. (Everyday for both arms) so well see


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## Darkhrse99 (Mar 28, 2014)

Has it interfered with training?


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## heavyiron (Mar 28, 2014)

BlueJayMuscle said:


> Nor do Ben Pakulski's or a number of other pros as well as mine for that matter haha.
> 
> Well arms are up 1" as of today. Quite inflamed. Very warm to the touch. And tight. Not gonna do any more and see if the size stays around.
> 
> Introducing dbol in next week. I typically blow up on dbol (bad balloon face) gonna try and keep it a bit drier this time. Any tips? Also bumping proviron down to 50mg to see if I notice any difference.


You will need to do site injects WAY longer than this brother. You can take a few days off but this is a long term commitment.


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 28, 2014)

Hasn't interfered with training. As I get warmed up doesn't feel like anything. But has hindered sleeping a bit and mobility. Mehhhh I don't think I'm ready/want to make the commitment to keep this going... Haha


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## BlueJayMuscle (Mar 28, 2014)

Will also be starting a smolov phase Monday. Pumped. Gonna also bench on Mondays and Fridays. A bunch of upper back on Wednesday too. Time to grow into summer while staying lean


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