# how to become a personal trainer



## DNABulking (Aug 19, 2006)

hi guys and im sorry if im asking this i been working out fro almost 2 years now and i really like to know how to become a personal trainer and a nutritionist if anybody know can someone explain to me step by step how to do this and if it cost money and how much well i want to know everything about it i would use the help thank u


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## CowPimp (Aug 19, 2006)

Beyond all of my extracirricular learning I did, I just bought the textbook and registered for the exam.  Differente organizations have different requirements regarding what you need to be eligible to take the exam.  Costs also vary.  I would look int NASM, ACSM, and NSCA.  I have an NSCA-CPT certification, and I was pleased with the process cost wise and information wise.


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## P-funk (Aug 19, 2006)

do a a search.  that has been discussed in length many many times here.


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## DNABulking (Aug 19, 2006)

thats all u need to become a trainer i tho i was harder than that so cowpimp u a trainer already


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## P-funk (Aug 19, 2006)

becoming a trainer is not hard.

being a good trainer and getting and maintaining business is.  the last thing the world needs is another shitty trainer.


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 19, 2006)

DNABulking said:


> How do you become a personal trainer?



*"All you need is a lobotomy and some tights!"*


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## CowPimp (Aug 20, 2006)

DNABulking said:


> thats all u need to become a trainer i tho i was harder than that so cowpimp u a trainer already



Yes, I'm a trainer.  I've been one a little under 6 months, so I'm not as experienced as some others on this board.  However, I do try to make sure I know my trade.  As P said, becoming a trainer isn't too hard.  There are lots of shitty trainers that you couldn't differentiate from your average gym meathead, but being a good trainer that knows how to spot improper motor patterns, understands anatomy, can help alleviate common postural/orthopedic issues, etc. is hard to come by.


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## PWGriffin (Aug 20, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Yes, I'm a trainer.  I've been one a little under 6 months, so I'm not as experienced as some others on this board.  However, I do try to make sure I know my trade.  As P said, becoming a trainer isn't too hard.  There are lots of shitty trainers that you couldn't differentiate from your average gym meathead, but being a good trainer that knows how to spot improper motor patterns, understands anatomy, can help alleviate common postural/orthopedic issues, etc. is hard to come by.




Lord knows I can't yet.  

In the environment I'm in, all I need to do is make people sweat and help them lose weight though.. 

There's one guy at my studio who wants to gain weight and get bigger and I don't train him most of the time (big mistake)


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## P-funk (Aug 20, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> In the environment I'm in, all I need to do is make people sweat and help them lose weight though..




that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be assessing clients, trying to fix improper movement patterns and working on helping improve their movement quality AS WELL AS helping them lose weight.

it is statments like that which make me hate trainers.  it is statements like that which make me NOT call myself a trainer anymore.  

That statments embodies what it means to be a fucking moron trainer at any of these chain gyms, barking orders at someone to "pump out a few more reps" and "feel the burn".

In most instances you are setting that person back from reaching the ultimate goal, which is overal better health and wellness.....most often those people end up getting hurt because you let poor movement quality go un-fixed in an effort to "sweat it out".

make me want to fucking puke.


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## PWGriffin (Aug 20, 2006)

P-funk said:


> that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be assessing clients, trying to fix improper movement patterns and working on helping improve their movement quality AS WELL AS helping them lose weight.
> 
> it is statments like that which make me hate trainers.  it is statements like that which make me NOT call myself a trainer anymore.
> 
> ...



Whoa there sparky....you don't even know where I work man.  I don't work at a chain gym and the equipment is VERY limited....and the VAST majority of my clients are VERY overweight and can't do movements that require such meticulous analysis.  I have to keep it very basic.  I'm a very new trainer and I don't know what you and dale and cowpimp know, but I'm not a shit trainer that doesn't WANT to learn so I can be a BETTER trainer.  Hell I've decided to go back to school because I realize how much there is I DON'T know that I feel I need to.  

Most of my clients are coming from a very sedentary lifestyle and any form of activity contributes largely to improved overall health and wellness.  And I do have their best interests in mind.  And I do my best to taylor programs to fit their needs.  

I don't just let them do whatever the fuck they want to.  I observe and correct form as much as possible...otherwise I'd just be standing there bored.  

Damn man, that was one discouraging post.


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## P-funk (Aug 20, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> Whoa there sparky....you don't even know where I work man.  I don't work at a chain gym and the equipment is VERY limited....and the VAST majority of my clients are VERY overweight and can't do movements that require such meticulous analysis.  I have to keep it very basic.  I'm a very new trainer and I don't know what you and dale and cowpimp know, but I'm not a shit trainer that doesn't WANT to learn so I can be a BETTER trainer.  Hell I've decided to go back to school because I realize how much there is I DON'T know that I feel I need to.
> 
> Most of my clients are coming from a very sedentary lifestyle and any form of activity contributes largely to improved overall health and wellness.  And I do have their best interests in mind.  And I do my best to taylor programs to fit their needs.
> 
> ...





I understand and the post was not meant to be discouraging.

People who are very overweight and coming from a sedentary lifestyle NEED a lot more then just basic exercises....sometimes it is knowing which exercises they need and which they don't and how much of one thing and how little of another.


My post was written out of anger for the industry.  Things like "I just make people sweat" anger the shit out of me because that is the training philosophy that 95% of all trainers follow.  it gives the industry a bad name and it discredits the few of us that are trying to make this a "credible" professional......in most cases, personal trainers are a "joke" of the health field.  It is going to take a lot of education and push to make it what it is.  A good trainer should be a professional.

Re-word your training philosophy to something that sounds more professional and it wont be met with such restraint.

I am all for education and learning and trying to improve and advance (otherwise I wouldn't be finishing up my Masters in Exercise Science).  even when I started out as a young trainer, I tried to learn and absorb everythign that I could from those that were more experienced then I (like you are trying to do).....but, i would never have a trainer philosophy that discredited the position of trainer like you just exampled.  Try and make is something like "I am commited to working with my clients to assess their current quality of life so that we can make the necessary changes to enhance their future health and wellness."  Sometime like that....blah blah.


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## PWGriffin (Aug 20, 2006)

P-funk said:


> I understand and the post was not meant to be discouraging.
> 
> People who are very overweight and coming from a sedentary lifestyle NEED a lot more then just basic exercises....sometimes it is knowing which exercises they need and which they don't and how much of one thing and how little of another.
> 
> ...



Yes sir....I'm sorry 

*runs off to write new mission statement*


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## P-funk (Aug 20, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> Yes sir....I'm sorry
> 
> *runs off to write new mission statement*



no seriously.

the more professional you are, the more clients will want to work with you.

when i started traning people i was a terrible business man.  I had no sales skills what so ever.  I would just walk the floor at the gym and try and figure out how to get clients.  But, the thing that I did have was that I understood my functional anatomy and how things worked.  Once a person asked me a questions, I helped them in a professional way and the product sold itself.  I didn't have to ask for money.  they were ready to sign up and pay!

the more professional you are the better of you will be.

the guys at world gym are shitty trainers (and all of them have NASM certifictations) because:

a) despite the certification, they didn't know how to take the information and apply it properly.

and

b) they didn't care to apply it properly.  to them, traininer was about making people sweat.  I cringe everytime I see the fucking jackass with this woman who is 60lbs overweight, standing on a bosu ball, doing DB curls with 10lb Dbs, and him saying "I want you to really feel the burn!  I want you to pump out 15 reps, and if you get to 15 and it is easy, then go to 20.  We want that burn."........

don't associate yourself with that crowd!  You are on the right path!  Make yourself out to be the real deal!


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## Trouble (Aug 20, 2006)

Steady-on there, mates.  The two of you crossed wires.

PW meant that all his clients want and expect is to loose weight.

Patrick and I are of the fervent opinion that these overweight individuals will make temporary progress at best.  Clients, their families and friends will have generally unhealthy lifestyles.  We both work hard to encourage a wholistic (deliberate misspelling), with a life-long shift in attitude towards health and wellness conscious behaviors.  

However, the truth remains: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink - even if you can deliver, as promised, a life largely free of the risks and burdens of chronic illness.

You can't fucking buy that...and yet, each of us have these clients, who stubbornly hold to the opinion that a little cardio, sweat, and resistance training is "good enough".  We see other trainers clients who fail to make any progress at all over a year or more.  The trainer fails to understand the clients foiables and the client refuses to push any harder than is minimally necessary.  

Worse...how frustrating, when I am advising intelligent men, to have them look me in the eye, and say "I don't have excess stress, its a myth", after they have finished describing a 10-hour work day, with one 20 min break, and a 6-hr sleep habit, that starts at midnight...

When such men tell me, they want that spark of fire and joy back in their life, I must fight the urge to reach forward, grab their shoulders, put my face one inch from theirs, and tell them in a cool, collected voice to wake up and listen to me, instead of their foolish inner voices spewing the same self-defeating logic.  They never have enough time, they are always tired, and they hate exercise...

But of course, one can't always say what needs saying.. Patience is a virtue.


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## CowPimp (Aug 20, 2006)

The biggest issues I see with trainers throughout:

They severely limit the inclusion of lower body exercises into their client's programs, and a lot of them don't use nearly enough exercises for the posterior chain.  This is the opposite of what I should be seeing.  Most of these people sit on their asses 10-12 hours a day, and they need to make their asses stronger and less inhibited, plain and simple.  2 inch leg presses and leg curls aren't going to cut it.

Too much goddamned pressing.  Hello, can't you see that your client has a fucking hunchback!?  Do you really think 2 different bench pressing variations every single workout is a good idea?  Jesus.  Even if they didn't look like Quasi Modo, they don't have the scapular control to keep themselves stable during a bench press anyway.  Oh, they have shoulder impingment syndrome too?  Really?  Surprise surprise.  How about you stop making the imbalance even worse.

No flexibility training or soft tissue work.  Again, your client hasn't even thought about exercising the entire 40 years of their lives, they've worked a sedentary job the past 20, and you think this isn't integral?  No wonder they walk around like they're about to fall over.  They're fucking leaning forward all day, they can't keep stable because their lower body stabilizing musculature is all inhibited from tight muscles throughout, their lower backs hurt because of a jacked up spinal curve and various mobility issues, etc.  Dynamic flexibility training and static stretching needs to be a part of a lot of these people's training programs, even if you are just hitting a couple of weak points.  Foam rolling is SO effective too.  Everyone I have that trains 3 days a week and rolls every time loves that thing now.

Training women without weights.  Women benefit from resistance training just like a man does.  Doing everything on a stability ball and for nothing heavier than an easy 12 repetitions is just stupid.  Women generally need to work on upper body strength more than men too; doing 3 sets of 15 bicep curls won't do.

Using unstable surfaces as a beginner exercise, not a progression.  Goddammit, why are you having your client squat on a BOSU before they know how to squat on the ground.  Do you notice their knees buckling?  Do you realize they are exhibiting anterior weight bearing?  Their hip flexors are too tight and they are leaning forward like they're trying to kiss the floor, did you realize?  Morons.

End rant.  Sorry.


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## DNABulking (Aug 20, 2006)

hey guys sorry if im asking this but anybody heard of the AFPA Certification if any of u did is it good


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## P-funk (Aug 20, 2006)

I have heard of it before.  But, I don't know anyone that has it and I have never heard of a gym asking for it as a certification.

Best thing to do is call gyms in your area and see which certs they take.  otherwise you are going to waste time and money getting something that can't land you a job.


If you want something that is respected pretty much where ever you go, you can't go wrong with certs from either the NSCA or NASM.


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## shiznit2169 (Aug 20, 2006)

There are a lot of trainers at my home gym who are in their mid twenties to mid thirties and they don't seem to have a clue. What surprises me is that whenever i am there lifting or if anyone else that has a clue how to train properly (like we all do), the trainers seem to be a little aware and sometimes get a little worried about what we'll think. They constantly look over at me and try to like being in sight so i can't see what they are doing (you know what i mean?). They are having their clients do curls or quarter leg presses while me or someone else are doing deadlifts or ATG squats. I have overheard a client asking his trainer one day say "what is that movement he is doing. Isn't he going to hurt his back doing that?" (while i was doing deadlifts) and the trainer flat out said "it's an exercise for advanced people and i don't think you're ready for it since you need to learn the basics"  .. something like that. 

I just chuckled


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## PWGriffin (Aug 20, 2006)

shiznit2169 said:


> There are a lot of trainers at my home gym who are in their mid twenties to mid thirties and they don't seem to have a clue. What surprises me is that whenever i am there lifting or if anyone else that has a clue how to train properly (like we all do), the trainers seem to be a little aware and sometimes get a little worried about what we'll think. They constantly look over at me and try to like being in sight so i can't see what they are doing (you know what i mean?). They are having their clients do curls or quarter leg presses while me or someone else are doing deadlifts or ATG squats. I have overheard a client asking his trainer one day say "what is that movement he is doing. Isn't he going to hurt his back doing that?" (while i was doing deadlifts) and the trainer flat out said "it's an exercise for advanced people and i don't think you're ready for it since you need to learn the basics"  .. something like that.
> 
> I just chuckled




My boss gets straight up PISSED sometimes when I question his training methods (they are stupid)  

Example: he does body part splits....that's just a start, he's training a guy I know who actually wants to get bigger, and when he does say back and bi's he'll do 3 exercises for bi's...with all kinds of forced reps and negatives...for bi's....

....

And grouped in with the back work would be good mornings and reverse flies, shit like that....maybe 1 row and 1 vertical pulling movement.  

So I look like the jackass last week when I go to train him on leg day and have him do say deadlifts or good mornings...guy looks at me and says "this is a back exercise."  WTF am I sposed to say "My boss is a dipshit"???   

Then a couple days later when my boss can't be there and I gotta train him again for "shoulder" day     I throw in some reverse flies for rear delt work and again "this is a back exercise"   

So shiznit, imagine having to answer to those trainers at your gym....


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## Mudge (Aug 20, 2006)

Some people do rear delts on back day, especially with rowing already getting them warmed up.


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## PWGriffin (Aug 21, 2006)

Mudge said:


> Some people do rear delts on back day, especially with rowing already getting them warmed up.



I wholeheartedly agree....ABSOLUTELY.  But if I was doing a body part split with a day just for shoulders (I wouldn't do this now) then I would save em for shoulder day.


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## studen77 (Aug 21, 2006)

You know what - when I was a beginner, I sure as heck wished my trainer gave me proper nutrition information...I was overweight and while weights came easily ( I'm naturally strong) my diet was crap and I knew nothing of proper diet.

-I thought carbs meant 'bread'
-I thought only paistries could make me fat (so I'd drink gallons of grape juice, eat sugary cereals like there was no tomorrow, etc.
-knew nothing of protein consumption or foods that provided ample amounts

This is the reason why i started out lifting seriously as a 'fat muscular' guy. Then the internet came around, sites like this started popping up around my sophmore year in college, and viola- all that changed.

Why do trainers only focus on weights with overweight people and barely even touch nutrition? Especially when the guy/girl is trying to lose weight?? That's like 90% of the battle! IS it because of ignorance?


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## PWGriffin (Aug 21, 2006)

studen77 said:


> You know what - when I was a beginner, I sure as heck wished my trainer gave me proper nutrition information...I was overweight and while weights came easily ( I'm naturally strong) my diet was crap and I knew nothing of proper diet.
> 
> -I thought carbs meant 'bread'
> -I thought only paistries could make me fat (so I'd drink gallons of grape juice, eat sugary cereals like there was no tomorrow, etc.
> ...



Well I touch on nutrition with all my clients and I give broad advice to all of them, and ask them constantly how the diet is going.  But where I am, I can't write diets out for clients because I'm not licensed to do that...

We do have food journals here that I give to all my clients,  where they write down exactly what they ate and bring it in.  

Clients come to us because they need to exercise and they lack motivation.  They won't do anything unless someone makes them...alot of them really have to make themselves come to the sessions, on the premise that they know they need to and they are PAYING for this service, and they know they will feel better if they come.  So taking that into consideration, you can see how strict a client would be with their diet, even with all the right knowledge being preached 2-3 times a week.  If we could go home with them, it would be a whole different ball game and results would more than likely be dramatic.  

Did your trainer know that the main goal was fat loss??  Did you ever voice any concerns that perhaps you weren't getting what you wanted out of your training?

Also, when I firsted started training, I didn't diet and eventually lost 30lbs.  The training and the extra activity put my metabolism back in check and I began building more metabolically expensive tissue (muscle).  


He may have just been a dipshit though....but diet is just one of those things....even shitty trainers know you have to eat right to lose weight...


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## Mudge (Aug 21, 2006)

You could easily soak up entire sessions just talking about diet, especially if you dont know what a carbohydrate is at that point. Ask for nutrition counseling if you really need it, I suppose they should have suggested that.


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## Trouble (Aug 21, 2006)

Look, you *have* to know your nutrition, the fundamentals, in order to train someone.  

wtf?  Diet and nutrition is what percentage of the athletic performance result??

I tell you this from experience, you will never see much progress with clients if you don't spend a couple of extra sessions on diet - with nutrition guide (books they buy) in hand.  For that, you need your certs.


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## P-funk (Aug 21, 2006)

absolutely.  if you don't have the diet talk with your clients (even if they don't have weightloss goals), you are doing them a diservice.


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## Action-Jackson (Aug 21, 2006)

I'm also thinking of taking an exam/course to become a trainer. I think it would fit in well with my Uni major (Biomedical Science), as I'm learning Cell Biology, Physiology and anatomy, which would be a great help. I really should look up how to become a trainer in Australia.


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## P-funk (Aug 21, 2006)

that major (bimedical science) can set you up for a good position in this type of industry.


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## studen77 (Aug 21, 2006)

> Did your trainer know that the main goal was fat loss?? Did you ever voice any concerns that perhaps you weren't getting what you wanted out of your training?



I was a beginner! I just did what he told me! The workouts were great and I gained muscle, yet I'd go home with the same  poor diet and never see real gains! I remained fat. Because i didn't know proper diet I didn't know to ask.



> absolutely. if you don't have the diet talk with your clients (even if they don't have weightloss goals), you are doing them a diservice.



Exactly. especially for beginners like I was - You're gonna make em fat n muscular! That's just what I was because the guy didn't care to discuss diet - only working out!



> I tell you this from experience, you will never see much progress with clients if you don't spend a couple of extra sessions on diet - with nutrition guide (books they buy) in hand. For that, you need your certs.



Well, I can honestly say that you'll see your clients remain fat, but they'll look even fatter due to the muscle growth under it. LOL maybe this guy was a dipsh*t, or just didn't wanna give away his diet *secrets*...I don't know..either stupidity or secretiveness..


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## Dale Mabry (Aug 21, 2006)

You have to offer more training-wse than the next guy, or you will be replaced.  The people who hire me as a trainer are very satisfied.  We do functional movement screens, dynamic warm-up/static stretching, and I am on their diet daily.

Most trainers are, "Give me my client, I will whip something up on the spot, and they will be satisfied enough."  I go in with the attitude that my clients are looking to replace me everyday so I bust my ass to please.


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## GoalGetter (Aug 21, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:


> You have to offer more training-wse than the next guy, or you will be replaced.  The people who hire me as a trainer are very satisfied.  We do functional movement screens, dynamic warm-up/static stretching, and I am on their diet daily.
> 
> Most trainers are, "Give me my client, I will whip something up on the spot, and they will be satisfied enough."  _*I go in with the attitude that my clients are looking to replace me everyday so I bust my ass to please.*_



I have that attitude with the clients i like. the others... eh. I secretly wish sometimes they WOULD replace me!


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## Trouble (Aug 21, 2006)

I posted, in response to Mudge's comment on nutrition (not being his job):

Quote: I tell you this from experience, you will never see much progress with clients if you don't spend a couple of extra sessions on diet - with nutrition guide (books they buy) in hand. For that, you need your certs.


Studen77 repied:
Well, I can honestly say that you'll see your clients remain fat, but they'll look even fatter due to the muscle growth under it. LOL maybe this guy was a dipsh*t, or just didn't wanna give away his diet *secrets*...I don't know..either stupidity or secretiveness..

Not sure how to take this reply.  I am simply saying that I have books on healthy diet/nutrition that recommend to my clients, and then I sit down and explain the role diet in their training, and in the bigger picture, its significance in their health and well being.  

I'm guessing I misunderstood your comment, Studen


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## ponyboy (Aug 21, 2006)

That's what I always liked about this site - there are trainers who have the right attitude.  

I've been a trainer now for 6 years and I'm currently studying part time so I can go to med school.  There are a lot of really crappy trainers out there, but the 15% that actually know what they are doing are the ones who actually care about helping people and making sure that they are functional, injury free and can still achieve their goals along the way.  

I'm at a gym with about 20 other trainers (big place) and I can confidently say that about 5 of us really know what we're talking about when it comes to the overall package - meaning how to assess properly, treat it like a business and not a part time job, have proper people skills and still have the knowledge to challenge people physically and make sure they aren't bored.  Sales skills are a part of it, sure, but I believe that is a small part of the package.  

Diet is a large part of it of course and I find that's the one part that clients rarely adhere to and the #1 reason why they don't get results as fast as they could.  I'm a certified nutritionist and I'm shocked at the lack of knowledge out there and the fact that most trainers know f all about it.  Or they believe every myth and garbage fact they have been told.  

I could go on but like others said, being a good trainer is hard work and treat it like running your own business.  It will pay off but it takes time and effort and a desire to learn.


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## P-funk (Aug 21, 2006)

whoa, a blast from the past!  hello ponyboy.


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## tucker01 (Aug 21, 2006)

whoa shit Ponyboy is back.


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## ponyboy (Aug 21, 2006)

Haven't been around much for no real reason except I changed gyms six months ago and have been rebuilding clientele, plus school.  Good to see there are still good people here.


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## PWGriffin (Aug 21, 2006)

ponyboy said:


> Diet is a large part of it of course and I find that's the one part that clients rarely adhere to and the #1 reason why they don't get results as fast as they could.  I'm a certified nutritionist and I'm shocked at the lack of knowledge out there and the fact that most trainers know f all about it.  Or they believe every myth and garbage fact they have been told.
> 
> .



This is the point I was trying to make, perhaps I need to try harder to word my posts better.  It's very frustrating when I have a client who is so overweight there is no reason the weight shouldn't be MELTING off of her.  She does weight watchers but has a hard time getting all her points because she doesn't eat enough.  She, along with maybe one or two other clients here, have effectively FUCKED their metabolism.  One day I had a chance to sit down with her and really talk to her about her diet...and the fact that she has to eat more often and get all her points in.  I explained in simple detail the thermogenic value of foods and how important protein is for a number of reasons, and that if she doesn't eat more that her fat loss will come to a halt...she came back next week, said she'd been eating MORE and LOST more weight heh....That was one of the most satisfying moments I've had in my limited experience as a trainer.  I think at this moment she realized I know what I'm talking about.  

The other clients who I have that aren't losing weight, aren't eating enough and aren't eating often enough...that's the number one problem I've run into.  And these people are professionals.  They are very busy....one of my clients is doing rotations at a hospital and I don't know what to tell them.  




On that note, Do you guys know of any REALLY good, EASY, quick snacks that these people could be munchin on through the busy parts of the day???


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## ponyboy (Aug 21, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> The other clients who I have that aren't losing weight, aren't eating enough and aren't eating often enough...that's the number one problem I've run into.  And these people are professionals.  They are very busy....one of my clients is doing rotations at a hospital and I don't know what to tell them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yup - people more often than not don't eat enough to lose weight and when you tell them that they look at you like you're crazy.  

Eating well requires proper preparation.  For someone who is totally screwed for time like someone doing rotations they really have to take the time once a week and make meals ahead of time.  I have a guy who only cooks on Sunday and everything goes in the fridge/freezer and he grabs it and goes every day during the week.  Chicken, veggies, rice, all cooked in one shot.  Not good for variety but it makes things quick and easy.


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## studen77 (Aug 22, 2006)

That's what I do..I have to admit I buy 'canned' veggies for their convenience- but I spend a lot of my Sunday with chicken breast and his buddy 'ground white turkey'


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## DNABulking (Aug 23, 2006)

i was thinking in doin AFPA Certification and Nutrition & Wellness Consultant Certification do u think thats good to start my career as a trainer


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## PWGriffin (Aug 23, 2006)

DNABulking said:


> i was thinking in doin AFPA Certification and Nutrition & Wellness Consultant Certification do u think thats good to start my career as a trainer



NASM and NSCA certifications are great.  I am getting my ISSA certification now, and I will keep it up since I've already gone through the trouble, but I am eventually going to get something a little more advanced.  Knowledge is power!!





On a side note....I totally got a boner this mornin when I was stretching a client....He noticed, but didn't say anything....


J/K.  It was totally a female...and some of those stretches were borderline inappropriate


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## DNABulking (Aug 23, 2006)

so is that good for starting my career


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