# Countdown To War



## [SIL] (Aug 28, 2013)

another false flag..another war..should us go to another war?



discuss


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## OfficerFarva (Aug 28, 2013)




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## OfficerFarva (Aug 28, 2013)




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## OfficerFarva (Aug 28, 2013)




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## OfficerFarva (Aug 28, 2013)




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## [SIL] (Aug 28, 2013)

there's a un security council meeting taking place right now..our little tosser cameron drafted a resolution to push his warmongering agenda there..russia and china just left the building..wonder how its gonna turn up


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## _LG_ (Aug 28, 2013)

Yes with canada


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## [SIL] (Aug 28, 2013)

canada don't have an army..and they speak french


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## M-Way (Aug 28, 2013)

Fuck it gets tedious. I might not even crack a beer when the first Tomahawk is fired.


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## _LG_ (Aug 28, 2013)

[SIL] said:


> canada don't have an army..and they speak french



Exactly


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## dieseljimmy (Aug 28, 2013)

we cant even make Afghanistan submit. Syria is 10 Afghanistans... 

Russians were not happy about Afghanistan... they have already said there not happy about this...

If china and russia get together, imagine what they could do to a nation that cant control Afghanistan.


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## hypo_glycemic (Aug 28, 2013)

^^ this.. Fuck no we shouldn't! Can't even button up Afghanistan--which we still haven't paid off.


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## Intense (Aug 28, 2013)

Should we? No. Is it inevitable, Yes.


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## [SIL] (Aug 28, 2013)

russians will back down..saudis offered them a good deal involving global oil and gas domination according to some newspapers..china wont intervene..iran and lebanese hesbollah are the only ones who can


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## OfficerFarva (Aug 28, 2013)

[SIL] said:


> canada don't have an army..and they speak french



The French are our version of Mexicans, no one here likes them either.


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## OldSchoolLifter (Aug 28, 2013)

Lol the picture regarding canada are hilarious. 

No we should not embark on another war, But damn you really think that will make a difference? No! As long as there is an agenda, and an opportunity presents its self, you can beat we will be back at war soon.


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## DOMS (Aug 28, 2013)

dieseljimmy said:


> we cant even make Afghanistan submit. Syria is 10 Afghanistans...
> 
> Russians were not happy about Afghanistan... they have already said there not happy about this...
> 
> If china and russia get together, imagine what they could do to a nation that cant control Afghanistan.



Moral of the story: we need to do war the old fashioned way. We bomb their shitty country from one end to the other, smoke 'em if you got 'em, and go home.


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## DOMS (Aug 28, 2013)

Source.

*ARABIAN SEA (SatireWire.com)*  ? Canadian television reported Friday that a Canadian warship in the  Arabian Sea had seized a tanker suspected of smuggling oil from Iraq,  leading many to suspect that the report was a hoax. 


 
 "You?re kidding, right? Canada has a _warship?_" asked U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. "Like for _war?_"

"Does Canada know?" he added. 

"Nobody  was more stunned than we were," said Kali Omari, first mate of the  seized vessel. "We saw this frigate steaming toward us, and we were  worried, but then we saw the maple leaf on the flag, and we thought, Oh, Canadians. What the hell do they want?"

When an officer of the _HMCS Vancouver_  announced that the tanker was about to be boarded, the crew of the  detained ship was confused, said Omari, but their confusion quickly  turned to anger when they saw what the Canadians sailors were carrying. 

"They were armed. With guns," said Omari. "Canadians. With guns. And a warship. What is this world coming to?" 

"They  were pretty rude, too," Omari added. "They started asking us all sorts  of questions, like 'Where did that oil come from? But first we wanted  to know who gave them the damn warship."

According to Canadian defense officials, the _Vancouver_  is one of four frigates deployed in the region to assist in the  U.S.-led Afghanistan conflict. The tanker was stopped, officials said,  because its cargo of crude oil violated United Nations sanctions, which  prohibit Iraq from selling oil unless in exchange for food and medicine.  

The U.N.  said the incident is already under investigation, and promised swift  action against those found responsible for giving the Canadians guns.  Initial findings indicate that the _Vancouver_ crew may have been watching too many American television shows.


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## SheriV (Aug 28, 2013)

^^^^^^^ lolz


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## heckler7 (Aug 28, 2013)

those people want our help, but don't want us there. want our aid, food, weapons but don't want to repay us. want a democracy, but not ours. middle east is like a bunch of women on the rag except they wrap them around their heads


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## malk (Aug 28, 2013)

fvck you cvnts,were going in in 4 days.UK fvck yeh.


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## SFW (Aug 28, 2013)

We put the brotherhood rebels in there, now we blame assad for what they (we) did. How fucking cute.

I sincerely hope that i live long enough to see these politicians and socialites dragged through the streets naked by angry mobs and hanged or imprisoned for life with hard labor. They are all war criminals, liars and demonic.

I have never hated this government more in my life.


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## G3 (Aug 28, 2013)

Just a heads up my Brothers. Don't go to Newfoundland Canada and tell them they're french. They hate them more than anyone!!!!!!!!!!


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## Zaphod (Aug 28, 2013)

It's just a false flag to "justify" more war.  Make people afraid, give them an enemy to hate and they will do anything for you.


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## seyone (Aug 28, 2013)

Gas attacks, wmd... sounds all too familiar. We need to stay the fuck out.


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## Bowden (Aug 28, 2013)

Colin Powell Feb 5 2003 -  "We have no doubt that Iraq possesses weapons of mass destruction. 
Translation - Fuck it I just want to blow something up and kill something.

Joe Biden - August 2013 - "no doubt" that Syrian President Bashar al Assad was responsible for the Aug. 21 chemical weapons attack near Damascus. 
Translation - Fuck it I just want to blow something up and kill something.


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## Bowden (Aug 28, 2013)

Tomahawk Missiles cost between 1.4 - 1.5 million apiece.
Here is a great idea.
Lets tell Bashar al Assad a week in advance that we are going to fire say 30 million dollars worth of them at Syria.
That should give him plenty of time to order his military to disperse all his command and control infrastructure as well all critical military units that allow him to maintain control over Syria.
As well secure his government into a hidden place.
Results,  30 million dollars worth of cruse missiles blowing up Syria does not reduce his political or military capability to maintain political control or wage war against the rebels.

Hey money well spent huh?
Obama can show the republicans that he has a set of nuts even if it costs him 30 million dollars worth of taxpayer funded missiles just to prove a point.


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## Bowden (Aug 28, 2013)

Wait I know...
The same intelligence that pinpointed all Iraq weapons of mass destruction and allowed rational for invasion for Iraq will pinpoint all Syrian military command and control infrastructure as well as all critical military units and political elements that allow Assad to maintain control over Syria prior to firing the 30 million dollars worth of tomahawk missiles at Syria to take out all of that.


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## DOMS (Aug 28, 2013)

Bowden said:


> Obama can show the republicans that he has a set of nuts even if it costs him 30 million dollars worth of taxpayer funded missiles just to prove a point.



Close. It's Obama's move to proves that he really, really deserved that Nobel Peace Prize.


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## s2h (Aug 28, 2013)

dieseljimmy said:


> we cant even make Afghanistan submit. Syria is 10 Afghanistans...
> 
> Russians were not happy about Afghanistan... they have already said there not happy about this...
> 
> If china and russia get together, imagine what they could do to a nation that cant control Afghanistan.



The Russians took a nice long ass kicking by the Afghans...and they only had horses and WW2 era rifles...

Didnt you watch the Rambo movies sequels DJ?...Col Troutman is at the GH clinic right now trying to get John J back in the fight..


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## s2h (Aug 28, 2013)

Obama's mother should have aborted him...what a waste of good golf rounds..

I'm listening to the news(yes I know I shouldn't)and some ass blaster is telling everything to include how many Tomahawks we will fire and where...

Oh better this condom tip said "we" won't attack anything that houses chemical weapons.....just great....

Guess they will hunker down and cook some ice with there mustard gas as "we" fire millions of dollars into the dead sea..

I'm moving to a island with Gilligan and the Skipper......


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## heavyiron (Aug 28, 2013)

One plane, one bomb, one mission. 

I'm tired of us fighting with both hands tied behind our backs. Fuck Russia and China. They can watch the show...


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## OfficerFarva (Aug 28, 2013)

heavyiron said:


> One plane, one bomb, one mission.
> 
> I'm tired of us fighting with both hands tied behind our backs. Fuck Russia and China. They can watch the show...




Why do you even need to fight?


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## theCaptn' (Aug 29, 2013)

[SIL] said:


> there's a un security council meeting taking place right now..our little tosser cameron drafted a resolution to push his warmongering agenda there..russia and china just left the building..wonder how its gonna turn up



We're always up for war! 

Free falafel for everyone!


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## malk (Aug 29, 2013)

theCaptn' said:


> We're always up for war!



this^^^ war is in our blood and gears.


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## charley (Aug 29, 2013)

War makes Money ...............


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## s2h (Aug 29, 2013)

heavyiron said:


> One plane, one bomb, one mission.
> 
> I'm tired of us fighting with both hands tied behind our backs. Fuck Russia and China. They can watch the show...




Maybe Obama is a Civil War buff(prob his lighter side coming thru)...like then we will let our enemy know our position and just stand in formation with flags flying and drums beating...that way they can run or mow us down..


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## malk (Aug 29, 2013)

Breaking news ...Raf typhoon jets being deployed to cyprus ,syrian parliment invites delegation of uk mp,s
Labour to vote against camaron motion.


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## jay_steel (Aug 29, 2013)

Bowden said:


> Tomahawk Missiles cost between 1.4 - 1.5 million apiece.
> Here is a great idea.
> Lets tell Bashar al Assad a week in advance that we are going to fire say 30 million dollars worth of them at Syria.
> That should give him plenty of time to order his military to disperse all his command and control infrastructure as well all critical military units that allow him to maintain control over Syria.
> ...




its more money when you calculate the fuel it takes for the destroyers, maintenance on the launchers after the fire and ect.

this war is another political way for politicians to think they are heroes and war heroes. If any one here has seen whitehouse down its a prime example of what politicians feel about our military. They make a call and it gets troops kills oo well that didnt work lets try this now, while the ground forces are telling them their fucking idiots. 

the sad part is my facebook is getting blown up by every single marine or 18 year old kid wanting to be a marine thats my friend saying lets go fuck shit up. Fucking non critical thinkers.


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## M-Way (Aug 30, 2013)

UK parliament votes to stay out of any action. France not impressed by that.


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## theCaptn' (Aug 30, 2013)

M-Way said:


> UK parliament votes to stay out of any action. France not impressed by that.



Usually it's the French who pussy out. The Russians are already in Syria, I wouldn't be fkg with them.


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## malk (Aug 30, 2013)

M-Way said:


> UK parliament votes to stay out of any action. France not impressed by that.



mate I wouldn't take that to seriously tbh,there playing politics that's all to try and soften up the british public,
they have won a vote to strike without un agreement, there just waiting for this un inspection team bullshit
to finish,then its game on.


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## malk (Aug 30, 2013)

theCaptn' said:


> Usually it's the French who pussy out. The Russians are already in Syria, I wouldn't be fkg with them.



they have 2 war ships in the area, and there not there to help us that's for sure.


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## G3 (Aug 30, 2013)

s2h said:


> I'm moving to a island with Gilligan and the Skipper......




I'm moving to an island with Ginger and Mary Ann.


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## [SIL] (Aug 30, 2013)

haha good to see common sense prevailed here in uk..but i doubt that will stop us..looks like its gonna be us and frog eaters as a coalition


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## theCaptn' (Aug 30, 2013)

.. Don't worry, we'll join the coalition of the retarded too


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## [SIL] (Aug 30, 2013)




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## malk (Aug 30, 2013)

Looks like americana is going solo on this,kerry making statement in 30 minutes.
I pay taxes i want us in there now.


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## IronAddict (Aug 30, 2013)

For everyone that thinks there is a difference between R's and D's let this be your lesson, you are completely wrong! 

1 faction of this government, with two faces.


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## malk (Aug 30, 2013)

Loving kerrys speach.....


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## heckler7 (Aug 30, 2013)




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## M-Way (Aug 31, 2013)

[SIL] said:


>



Fucking lol!


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## M-Way (Aug 31, 2013)

_Russia's President Putin dismisses US claims that Syria's regime used  chemical weapons as "utter nonsense", urging the US to reveal the  evidence. 	         _BBC News


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## Zaphod (Aug 31, 2013)

Just give them time to fabricate some evidence.  Then we'll be ball's deep in yet another way.


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## malk (Aug 31, 2013)

Cant see any action now,the US seem hesitent now uk has pulled out and Russia warning
Not to fire on Syria.The whole thing has been a joke.


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## [SIL] (Aug 31, 2013)




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## [SIL] (Aug 31, 2013)




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## heckler7 (Aug 31, 2013)

^^ truth


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## dogsoldier (Aug 31, 2013)

Well BBC has reported that the Russians are quietly pulling their assets out of the base in Syria and relocating them to another country in the region. AP is reporting the the gas attack may have been launched by the Rebels and not the Assad regime.  81% of the American people, according to a Kuniach poll do not want the US to bomb Syria. Obama announced he will take no action until congress reconvenes on Sept 9th and debates and votes on the issue. I mean, really...2 weeks to before considering action?  I could hide the entire country of Syria in 2 weeks.  

FOr the record, no I do not want any bombing of Syria. Two factions that hate America and the Western world killing each other. I say what's the problem?  Let them have at it.


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## heckler7 (Sep 1, 2013)

enemy #1 wants to wipe out enemy #2, why are we caring? if its to help speed the process up then nuke'm otherwise we need our money to stay here and not spend it rebuilding Syria in 10 years


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## DOMS (Sep 1, 2013)

heckler7 said:


> enemy #1 wants to wipe out enemy #2, why are we caring? if its to help speed the process up then nuke'm otherwise we need our money to stay here and not spend it rebuilding Syria in 10 years



Put another way, it's Arab killing Arabs. It's a problem solving itself.


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## Zaphod (Sep 1, 2013)

I say let Obomba start his war.  Then perhaps that will be what gets him, and Biden, out.


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## malk (Sep 1, 2013)

there fvcking taunting us now,calling the west cowards " a historical retreat " said one newspaper today.


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## malk (Sep 1, 2013)

Zaphod said:


> I say let Obomba start his war.  Then perhaps that will be what gets him, and Biden, out.



so you want war plus regime change in your country, I like that.


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## theCaptn' (Sep 1, 2013)

malk said:


> there fvcking taunting us now,calling the west cowards " a historical retreat " said one newspaper today.



Well... Ain't it true? No one fks with Putin


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## M-Way (Sep 1, 2013)

theCaptn' said:


> Well... Ain't it true? No one fks with Putin









[h=1]US 'has evidence of Syrian sarin use'[/h]The US has evidence that the nerve agent sarin has been used by the Syrian government, Secretary of State John Kerry says.

Mr Kerry also said he was confident Congress would approve strikes against the forces of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

Speaking with ABC news on Sunday, Mr Kerry said: "We have signatures  of Sarin in hair and blood samples, so the case is growing stronger by  the day."


He added: "We cannot allow Assad to be able to gas people with impunity." *BBC NEWS*


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## [SIL] (Sep 1, 2013)

M-Way said:


> *US 'has evidence of Syrian sarin use'*
> 
> The US has evidence that the nerve agent sarin has been used by the Syrian government, Secretary of State John Kerry says.
> 
> ...



lol how dumb these people are?of course it has been used..the question is WHO used it..syrian army who almost two years successfully fought these terrorist and now are on major offensive to crush the remaining few decided to use chemical weapons only now and because we all know that these fighters always fight in small groups makes perfect sense use chemical arsenal just to eliminate couple of them,right?...oh,just to make things interesting fuck these fighters,let us shoot those bombs in to the civilian area just for the fun of it..


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## M-Way (Sep 2, 2013)

[SIL] said:


> lol how dumb these people are?of course it has been used..the question is WHO used it..syrian army who almost two years successfully fought these terrorist and now are on major offensive to crush the remaining few decided to use chemical weapons only now and because we all know that these fighters always fight in small groups makes perfect sense use chemical arsenal just to eliminate couple of them,right?...oh,just to make things interesting fuck these fighters,let us shoot those bombs in to the civilian area just for the fun of it..



The US will challenge anyone to disprove _them_. A scaled up version of dropping a wrap into a pocket before a search.


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## Zaphod (Sep 2, 2013)

malk said:


> so you want war plus regime change in your country, I like that.



I'm against any military action against Syria.  Not our business.  Since it's likely the US will be going anyway I'm just going to hope that it's what gets Obomba out.  

Yes, I've taken to misspelling his name since I saw Obomba used somewhere else.


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## IronAddict (Sep 2, 2013)

What a ruse! The Prez wants to get approval from the true do nothing congress, a congress that never wanted this man as prez in the 1st place and chose to veto his every wish and block this man at every turn.

I'm thinking they're not going to approve his want, as much as they would love to make more money for the military industrial complex. I think they're going to once again try to paint this man as inept. 

And it's already working.


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## DOMS (Sep 2, 2013)

IronAddict said:


> I think they're going to once again try to paint this man as inept.



He does his own finger-painting.


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## malk (Sep 2, 2013)

Zaphod said:


> I'm against any military action against Syria.  Not our business.  Since it's likely the US will be going anyway I'm just going to hope that it's what gets Obomba out.
> 
> Yes, I've taken to misspelling his name since I saw Obomba used somewhere else.



maybe all the leaders can get together at golds gym and have a bench off,winner gets free gears.


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## Little Wing (Sep 2, 2013)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwvoHP7bUAw

                                             PermaWar

                 Lyrics: Jourgensen

                 Music: Jourgensen/Scaccia/Quirin

                 ? 13th Planet Music, Inc.



                 You live to fight another day, and that day will come

                 We're fighting never-ending wars, for profit & fun



                 We're tired, we're tired, we're tired of PermaWar



                 You live to die another day, we send you off with a gun

                 We're making money hand over fist, that's why we're never done



                 We're tired, of keeping scores

                 We're tired, of what's in store

                 We're tired, we don't want anymore

                 We're tired of PermaWar



                 I'm tired of building other nations 

                 Ceasefire, it's our only salvation



                 You live and die for the American Way, well that way is done

                 The bottom line remains the same, we're making cash by the ton



                 We're tired, of keeping scores

                 We're tired, of what's in store

                 We're tired, we don't want anymore

                 We're tired of PermaWar

                 We're tired, of keeping scores

                 We're tired, of what's in store

                 We're tired, we don't want anymore

                 We're tired of PermaWar

                 We're tired of PermaWar

                 We're tired of PermaWar

                 We're tired of PermaWar

                 We're tired of PermaWar


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## Diesel618 (Sep 2, 2013)

Syria is one of 3 countries in the world not indebted to the Rothschilds. If you think this is about anything OTHER than getting a Rothschild central bank in Syria then you watch too much news.


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## kobefan234 (Sep 2, 2013)

Israel wants USA to attack. USA must follow orders....


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## DOMS (Sep 3, 2013)

kobefan234 said:


> Israel wants USA to attack. USA must follow orders....



And the fluoride! In the water! Brain control!


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## Little Wing (Sep 3, 2013)




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## DOMS (Sep 3, 2013)

Little Wing said:


>




They weren't the same. They were Arabs.


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## M-Way (Sep 3, 2013)

The world isn't working any more...
The world isn't working at all...


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## M-Way (Sep 3, 2013)




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## heavyiron (Sep 3, 2013)

I really don't see why we are getting involved. Our enemies are killing each other.......


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## jacmo (Sep 3, 2013)

Gonna blow some stuff up so the defense contractors can make a lil more money then rebuild what we BLEW UP so companies like Haliburton can make a lil money too. May as well install a democracy since that experiment worked out SO WELL in Iraq! Hmm, should we raise gas prices before or after we bomb?


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## sneedham (Sep 3, 2013)

jacmo said:


> Gonna blow some stuff up so the defense contractors can make a lil more money then rebuild what we BLEW UP so companies like Haliburton can make a lil money too. May as well install a democracy since that experiment worked out SO WELL in Iraq! Hmm, should we raise gas prices before or after we bomb?


Just before, during, and after........


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## jay_steel (Sep 4, 2013)

Little Wing said:


>


.

what a fucking brilliant post. Put a military vets moms face on a picture illustrating children being murdered. FUCK you for that one LW you say some off the wall stuff but to slander a military vet like that and supporting that image is fucking stupid. Yes there are children dying at war, there is no way it can be prevented, its sad but its reality. Another note if a child is holding an AK-47 or is a suicide bomber would you give up your life and allow that child to kill you. You have zero concept of what is going out there. I lost allot of friends because we provide aid to children and then come back after a month of helping them out to lead us to road side bombs and kill our teams. So yes here is a big middle finger to you. fucking anti veteran, that shit just pushed me over the edge. just keep sitting on your ass judging other people while you yet to do NOTHING to serve your country.


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## Little Wing (Sep 4, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> .
> 
> what a fucking brilliant post. Put a military vets moms face on a picture illustrating children being murdered. FUCK you for that one LW you say some off the wall stuff but to slander a military vet like that and supporting that image is fucking stupid. Yes there are children dying at war, there is no way it can be prevented, its sad but its reality. Another note if a child is holding an AK-47 or is a suicide bomber would you give up your life and allow that child to kill you. You have zero concept of what is going out there. I lost allot of friends because we provide aid to children and then come back after a month of helping them out to lead us to road side bombs and kill our teams. So yes here is a big middle finger to you. fucking anti veteran, that shit just pushed me over the edge. just keep sitting on your ass judging other people while you yet to do NOTHING to serve your country.



fuck you and your flag. you really think american soldiers don't commit war crimes? most of our wars now ARE crimes. they are illegal wars fought for all the wrong reasons. i'm sick of kids being killed, innocents, civilians, on both sides by fucking undereducated pawns being controlled by a bunch of evil cocksuckers making up bullshit about weapons of mass destruction etc to send the mindlessly obedient to war.

it can be prevented by not fighting stupid fucking wars we have no business fighting. 

and by this


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## Little Wing (Sep 4, 2013)




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## Little Wing (Sep 4, 2013)




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## Little Wing (Sep 4, 2013)




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## Little Wing (Sep 4, 2013)




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## Little Wing (Sep 4, 2013)

maybe you haven't heard the vets from iraq n afghanastan speaking out about war crimes they participated in there. the suicides because of the guilt for committing crimes against humanity?

Troops Committing Suicide Over War Crime Guilt - YouTube


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## Little Wing (Sep 4, 2013)

[h=1]"I Am Sorry That It Has Come to This": A Soldier's Last Words[/h]
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





_  Daniel Somers was a veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom. He was part of  Task Force Lightning, an intelligence unit. In 2004-2005, he was mainly  assigned to a Tactical Human-Intelligence Team (THT) in Baghdad, Iraq,  where he ran more than 400 combat missions as a machine gunner in the  turret of a Humvee, interviewed countless Iraqis ranging from concerned  citizens to community leaders and and government officials, and  interrogated dozens of insurgents and terrorist suspects. In 2006-2007,  Daniel worked with Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) through his  former unit in Mosul where he ran the Northern Iraq Intelligence Center.  His official role was as a senior analyst for the Levant (Lebanon,  Syria, Jordan, Israel, and part of Turkey). Daniel suffered greatly from  PTSD and had been diagnosed with traumatic brain injury and several  other war-related conditions. On June 10, 2013, Daniel wrote the  following letter to his family before taking his life. Daniel was 30  years old. His wife and family have given permission to publish it. _
 I am sorry that it has come to this.
 The  fact is, for as long as I can remember my motivation for getting up  every day has been so that you would not have to bury me.  As things  have continued to get worse, it has become clear that this alone is not a  sufficient reason to carry on.  The fact is, I am not getting better, I  am not going to get better, and I will most certainly deteriorate  further as time goes on.  From a logical standpoint, it is better to  simply end things quickly and let any repercussions from that play out  in the short term than to drag things out into the long term.
 You  will perhaps be sad for a time, but over time you will forget and begin  to carry on.  Far better that than to inflict my growing misery upon you  for years and decades to come, dragging you down with me.  It is  because I love you that I can not do this to you.  You will come to see  that it is a far better thing as one day after another passes during  which you do not have to worry about me or even give me a second  thought.  You will find that your world is better without me in it.
 I  really have been trying to hang on, for more than a decade now.  Each  day has been a testament to the extent to which I cared, suffering  unspeakable horror as quietly as possible so that you could feel as  though I was still here for you.  In truth, I was nothing more than a  prop, filling space so that my absence would not be noted.  In truth, I  have already been absent for a long, long time.
 My  body has become nothing but a cage, a source of pain and constant  problems.  The illness I have has caused me pain that not even the  strongest medicines could dull, and there is no cure.  All day, every  day a screaming agony in every nerve ending in my body.  It is nothing  short of torture.  My mind is a wasteland, filled with visions of  incredible horror, unceasing depression, and crippling anxiety, even  with all of the medications the doctors dare give.  Simple things that  everyone else takes for granted are nearly impossible for me.  I can not  laugh or cry.  I can barely leave the house.  I derive no pleasure from  any activity.  Everything simply comes down to passing time until I can  sleep again.  Now, to sleep forever seems to be the most merciful  thing.
 You  must not blame yourself.  The simple truth is this:  During my first  deployment, I was made to participate in things, the enormity of which  is hard to describe.  War crimes, crimes against humanity.  Though I did  not participate willingly, and made what I thought was my best effort  to stop these events, there are some things that a person simply can not  come back from.  I take some pride in that, actually, as to move on in  life after being part of such a thing would be the mark of a sociopath  in my mind.  These things go far beyond what most are even aware of.
 To  force me to do these things and then participate in the ensuing coverup  is more than any government has the right to demand.  Then, the same  government has turned around and abandoned me.  They offer no help, and  actively block the pursuit of gaining outside help via their corrupt  agents at the DEA.  Any blame rests with them.
 Beyond  that, there are the host of physical illnesses that have struck me down  again and again, for which they also offer no help.  There might be  some progress by now if they had not spent nearly twenty years denying  the illness that I and so many others were exposed to.  Further  complicating matters is the repeated and severe brain injuries to which I  was subjected, which they also seem to be expending no effort into  understanding.  What is known is that each of these should have been  cause enough for immediate medical attention, which was not rendered.
 Lastly,  the DEA enters the picture again as they have now managed to create  such a culture of fear in the medical community that doctors are too  scared to even take the necessary steps to control the symptoms.  All  under the guise of a completely manufactured ?overprescribing epidemic,?  which stands in stark relief to all of the legitimate research, which  shows the opposite to be true.  Perhaps, with the right medication at  the right doses, I could have bought a couple of decent years, but even  that is too much to ask from a regime built upon the idea that suffering  is noble and relief is just for the weak.
 However,  when the challenges facing a person are already so great that all but  the weakest would give up, these extra factors are enough to push a  person over the edge.
 Is it  any wonder then that the latest figures show 22 veterans killing  themselves each day?  That is more veterans than children killed at  Sandy Hook, _every single day_.  Where are the huge policy initiatives?  Why isn?t the president standing with _those_  families at the state of the union?  Perhaps because we were not killed  by a single lunatic, but rather by his own system of dehumanization,  neglect, and indifference.
 It  leaves us to where all we have to look forward to is constant pain,  misery, poverty, and dishonor.  I assure you that, when the numbers do  finally drop, it will merely be because those who were pushed the  farthest are all already dead.
 And  for what?  Bush?s religious lunacy?  Cheney?s ever growing fortune and  that of his corporate friends?  Is this what we destroy lives for 
 Since  then, I have tried everything to fill the void.  I tried to move into a  position of greater power and influence to try and right some of the  wrongs.  I deployed again, where I put a huge emphasis on saving lives.   The fact of the matter, though, is that any new lives saved do not  replace those who were murdered.  It is an exercise in futility.
 Then,  I pursued replacing destruction with creation.  For a time this  provided a distraction, but it could not last.  The fact is that any  kind of ordinary life is an insult to those who died at my hand.  How  can I possibly go around like everyone else while the widows and orphans  I created continue to struggle?  If they could see me sitting here in  suburbia, in my comfortable home working on some music project they  would be outraged, and rightfully so.
 I  thought perhaps I could make some headway with this film project, maybe  even directly appealing to those I had wronged and exposing a greater  truth, but that is also now being taken away from me.  I fear that, just  as with everything else that requires the involvement of people who can  not understand by virtue of never having been there, it is going to  fall apart as careers get in the way.
 The  last thought that has occurred to me is one of some kind of final  mission.  It is true that I have found that I am capable of finding some  kind of reprieve by doing things that are worthwhile on the scale of  life and death.  While it is a nice thought to consider doing some good  with my skills, experience, and killer instinct, the truth is that it  isn?t realistic.  First, there are the logistics of financing and  equipping my own operation, then there is the near certainty of a grisly  death, international incidents, and being branded a terrorist in the  media that would follow.  What is really stopping me, though, is that I  simply am too sick to be effective in the field anymore.  That, too, has  been taken from me.
 Thus,  I am left with basically nothing.  Too trapped in a war to be at peace,  too damaged to be at war.  Abandoned by those who would take the easy  route, and a liability to those who stick it out?and thus deserve  better.  So you see, not only am I better off dead, but the world is  better without me in it
 This  is what brought me to my actual final mission.  Not suicide, but a mercy  killing.  I know how to kill, and I know how to do it so that there is  no pain whatsoever.  It was quick, and I did not suffer.  And above all,  now I am free.  I feel no more pain.  I have no more nightmares or  flashbacks or hallucinations.  I am no longer constantly depressed or  afraid or worried
 I am free.

 I ask  that you be happy for me for that.  It is perhaps the best break I  could have hoped for.  Please accept this and be glad for me.
 Daniel Somers


what do you think he means that he feels abandoned by those who would take the easy route? i think he means abandoned by soldiers who know what went on there and just keep waving the flag and beating their chest. men and women who don't scream foul at the top of their lungs and tell the truth about it. men ready to march right off and do it again.


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## [SIL] (Sep 5, 2013)

video from 2007


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## jay_steel (Sep 5, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> fuck you and your flag. you really think american soldiers don't commit war crimes? most of our wars now ARE crimes. they are illegal wars fought for all the wrong reasons. i'm sick of kids being killed, innocents, civilians, on both sides by fucking undereducated pawns being controlled by a bunch of evil cocksuckers making up bullshit about weapons of mass destruction etc to send the mindlessly obedient to war.
> 
> it can be prevented by not fighting stupid fucking wars we have no business fighting.
> 
> and by this



did i ever say i support going to war on syria your an idiot. your true colors come out what you really think about the American Flag with that statement right there. I never once said lets go to war in syria i am against this war as I am against us still being in Iraq and Afgan.. But putting up a picture of a soldier with her daughter saying she killed kids when females do not even go into direct combat. The ones that do see combat are during convoys and would not have the opportunity to go into a mission where children would be at risk. If you posted a picture of the Black Water guys who killed innocents i would be fine with that or a different veteran who is guilty of a war crime that is different. However, the image you displayed shows a proud mother who probably has not seen her daughter for 18 months in a reunion with no factual evidence of what she did over seas. She could have been coming back from boot camp for you all you know and you support slandering that image. 

I think very few military members support the war any war, we serve because someone has to serve this country in hopes to defend its freedoms. It is not our fault the president you voted for wants to go to war. I also did not vote for Bush in that election I voted independant so dont pull the bush card out. What do you expect military service memebers to do that have 16 years in just get out and lose all benefits? your a tool LW and only care about your self. And if you really think the images you posted of the soldiers, marines, and sailor saying they wont go to war would support your slandering of a female veteran your wrong. 

You may not have to support the diplomatic decisions our country makes, but for fuck sake support the members who are willing to die so you can be an idiot.


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## jay_steel (Sep 5, 2013)

Here are some pics to support those who serve and those who have served and the sacrifices that we have made to protect this Flag that LW says to fuck. I may not be willing to give my life for this president, but I would die to make sure this flag forever flies high.


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## jay_steel (Sep 5, 2013)

So you can copy paste all the bullshit you want, so you feel like you know whats going on, but until you have fought and been to war your words are worthless. I do not condone war crimes and units who conduct them selves in non professional manners, however i know what its like to get shot at by a 12 year old kid, i know what its like to not be able to search females when they cross our boarders and then to find out one of them had an IED that killed 20 people. Fearing everyday if the kid that I bring sodas and candy to is going to kill me the next day, but i do it any way because its the right thing to do. I wake up in the middle of the night to the sounds of rockets hitting the ground or new bullet holes in our tents. but every morning i wake up to lace up my boots to risk my life, not for the political mistakes my country may have made, but in hopes to maybe make a change in this world. A dream that one day freedom will be expressed by all... That is what a Service member feels deep down inside. not the war mongering i kill children shit your posting.


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## jay_steel (Sep 5, 2013)

Now because some idiot wanted to be funny and express their opinion on an image, that image could easily circulate her schools and ect. How would you feel if one of those provocative pictures of you went around your daughters school when she was in elementary saying im a whore and love black cock. Weither it is true or not, how would you feel to see your daughter coming home upset due to that. Fuck that you dont portray people with that image unless they are guilty of it. If there was factual evidence that she killed babies over seas then fuck her, but to me she is a heroic strong women then makes sacrifices to defend this country. So go a head and keep shitting on our service members LW, we know how you really feel now. Why dont you go burn the flag and flip off some disabled vets and call them baby killers to their face. Have some fucking balls and step up and tell it to their face, because everything I say about spineless pieces of shits that disrespect our service members I said this to their faces. I dont respect the war but I respect our service members.


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## s2h (Sep 5, 2013)

I didn't read the whole thread..but I will say if you haven't been in a war zone yourself you should stfu...cause you don't have one clue as to what goes on..

There's three kinds of people that come home from war...there's the selfish combat soldier who only cares about his unit...his ranger buddy and himself...and lives a normal long life..

Then there's the one who gets screwed up in the head and turns to booze and dope to ride out the nightmare of war..

And lastly is the one who can't handle it..call it PTSD or whatever...but this one is the 22% that off's himself due to the pain..

Trust me guy number one is the guy you want to be....he survives and goes home to his wife..kids...family and life...


Stay alert ...Stay alive....


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## jay_steel (Sep 5, 2013)

s2h said:


> I didn't read the whole thread..but I will say if you haven't been in a war zone yourself you should stfu...cause you don't have one clue as to what goes on..
> 
> There's three kinds of people that come home from war...there's the selfish combat soldier who only cares about his unit...his ranger buddy and himself...and lives a normal long life..
> 
> ...



it doesnt matter if i am still serving or not serving, i will all ways respect the service members who come home, if they did the right thing over their or not. Unless your over their NO one period can judge their actions. people dont have the slightest clue the emotions that go on. The camp next to use had 2 kids suicide bomb our defac, we had an infantry member kill him self because he shot a child because the child was shoting at our convoy. He had nightmares about it for months and went nuts. I have been in firefights for so long you have to piss your self because the last thing you want is having to take a piss affect your ability to combat the situation. Then the thing you all ways here from wounded service members when can i get back out their, when they are blown apart, I need to get back to my guys. They dont say i need to go fight for the fat politicians, its for the family, flag, and brother hood.


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## heckler7 (Sep 5, 2013)

Just so everyone knows, a very small amount basically a handful of people actually see combat and get to fire their weapon the large portion of service members are support. if you go to a base lets say average size is 30,000 you have hospitals motor pools tons of office personnel  I would guess that less than a third are directly trained for combat. It pisses me off all the propaganda shit that is started by nonners and unless you actually contribute or do any real hands on work in the military that can be considered mission related you are a nonner ( non-essential personnel )


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## jay_steel (Sep 5, 2013)

yeah and most of the war crimes are committed by the contractors. Most of the ones i worked with were cowboys who got out of the military for selfish reasons and dont give a fuck about the country they just love war and money. You get the infantry guy who couldnt make SF so he gets out and does this. The only contractors that respected were the retired active duty ones that still wanted to serve. Yeah initially I went to Iraq my last tour just for support working in the JOC but the aussies lost their mobile comms guy, so i got voluntold to go work with the AUS. It was pretty cool though got to wear their uniform with US Navy on it and the American Flag. Also got to drink on sundays with them


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## heckler7 (Sep 5, 2013)

When you join the military your young and all you know is living at home with your parents, your basically a teenager with shit for brains. These hippy tree huggers like to brand service members and make heinous images to offend people and degrade our troops yet wont get off their ass and do nothing about it. Take it up with your congressmen, go protest, seems like they all voted for Obama thinking it was gonna change the world and look where we are today. Fucking cowards on the internet is all they are with their conspiracy videos and doctored up photos.


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## jay_steel (Sep 5, 2013)

yup, i challenge everyone to serve, if your anti war thats cool join the peace corpse and leave for a year helping the needy, be a volunteer fire fighter and go fight some of these forest fires that are going on, but they have no desire to have that level of sacrifice. They are to busy bad mouthing the military, but are unwilling to do any thing unselfish that does not benefit them. We have a reservist in our unit that makes 200k a year but has no degree, enlisted to serve because he was inspired by his younger brother. He is an E3 in the Navy, but takes time away from his company to be in the reserves. Tons of great people out there. Or the Dr.'s that make allot of money who are reserve dr's and do it to help out. Some of them are actually do it for no pay as well or donate their reserve pay back to the wounded warriors.


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## HialeahChico305 (Sep 5, 2013)

malk said:


> there fvcking taunting us now,calling the west cowards " a historical retreat " said one newspaper today.



Great, does that make you angry to the point you become aggresive and out of control? then good sheep, keep marching.


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## dieseljimmy (Sep 5, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> .
> 
> what a fucking brilliant post. Put a military vets moms face on a picture illustrating children being murdered. FUCK you for that one LW you say some off the wall stuff but to slander a military vet like that and supporting that image is fucking stupid. Yes there are children dying at war, there is no way it can be prevented, its sad but its reality. Another note if a child is holding an AK-47 or is a suicide bomber would you give up your life and allow that child to kill you. You have zero concept of what is going out there. I lost allot of friends because we provide aid to children and then come back after a month of helping them out to lead us to road side bombs and kill our teams. So yes here is a big middle finger to you. fucking anti veteran, that shit just pushed me over the edge. just keep sitting on your ass judging other people while you yet to do NOTHING to serve your country.



 just cause LW never served in the military doesn't mean she cant be critical of it.  isnt that kinda the fundamental reasons our forefathers started this nation.


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## HialeahChico305 (Sep 5, 2013)

heckler7 said:


>



This you fuckers, x1000


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## skinnyguy180 (Sep 5, 2013)

HialeahChico305 said:


> This you fuckers, x1000



when your government cant afford planes or boats to fight wars in other in other countries it has to fight with its self...  nothing noble about a revolution.... Its just another regime change.

by the way chico hows your Bf at the shamoo factory?


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## IronAddict (Sep 5, 2013)

It seems the human side, or the one that's doing the fighting, the foot soldier makes his own policy, trust me, he doesn't.


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## IronAddict (Sep 5, 2013)




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## s2h (Sep 5, 2013)

7.62 for President...


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## Little Wing (Sep 5, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> did i ever say i support going to war on syria your an idiot. your true colors come out what you really think about the American Flag with that statement right there. I never once said lets go to war in syria i am against this war as I am against us still being in Iraq and Afgan.. But putting up a picture of a soldier with her daughter saying she killed kids when females do not even go into direct combat. The ones that do see combat are during convoys and would not have the opportunity to go into a mission where children would be at risk. If you posted a picture of the Black Water guys who killed innocents i would be fine with that or a different veteran who is guilty of a war crime that is different. However, the image you displayed shows a proud mother who probably has not seen her daughter for 18 months in a reunion with no factual evidence of what she did over seas. She could have been coming back from boot camp for you all you know and you support slandering that image.
> 
> I think very few military members support the war any war, we serve because someone has to serve this country in hopes to defend its freedoms. It is not our fault the president you voted for wants to go to war. I also did not vote for Bush in that election I voted independant so dont pull the bush card out. What do you expect military service memebers to do that have 16 years in just get out and lose all benefits? your a tool LW and only care about your self. And if you really think the images you posted of the soldiers, marines, and sailor saying they wont go to war would support your slandering of a female veteran your wrong.
> 
> You may not have to support the diplomatic decisions our country makes, but for fuck sake support the members who are willing to die so you can be an idiot.



you must have missed this



Little Wing said:


> ...to be honest in our countries policies maybe we should  fly a dollar sign above our flag or the chinese flag. maybe we can  design a new flag that shows corporations 69ing with politicians and  treading on the common man while the poor and downtrodden are fed into a  grinder. room for a little tax man on there somewhere pissing on our  schools and wiping his ass with our tax dollars. have a laughing asian  on the other side with a big bold made in china punch line. sprinkle  around some homeless veterans.



and i will go on record as saying in my opinion real women take care of their kids not play soldier. that's a man's job. something fucking wrong with a female that can leave her kids like that.


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## Little Wing (Sep 5, 2013)

fighting for america just loses so much of it's glory when you take a good hard look at how things are being done here. we are neck deep in fucking clusterfuck bullshit and i find it real hard to be flag waving proud of the sickening stench of losing freedom after freedom, being spied on, the stop and frisk crap.... i don't buy the big lie. there's a LOT more to be ashamed of than proud of.


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## Little Wing (Sep 5, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> Here are some pics to support those who serve and those who have served and the sacrifices that we have made to protect this Flag that LW says to fuck. I may not be willing to give my life for this president, but I would die to make sure this flag forever flies high.



we have all seen these and they are amazing. but it's not the whole picture and you know it. 

((IRAQ ATROCITIES)) US Soldiers Speak Out - YouTube


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## NoCode8511 (Sep 5, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> and i will go on record as saying in my opinion real women take care of their kids not play soldier. that's a man's job. something fucking wrong with a female that can leave her kids like that.



Most people join the military at a young age weather it be to fight for their country or further their education. If a war breaks out then it's their job to go over and support their role in the field. My mom was an Army nurse that helped the wounded during the Gulf War, is that playing soldier?


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## Little Wing (Sep 5, 2013)

how old were you when she went? if you were still a dependent child it's my opinion she had a more important job to do. i'm 52 and of family and friends who have served i know many forbid their children to enlist. not because being a soldier is dishonorable but because they way this country uses them dishonors all of us.


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## NoCode8511 (Sep 5, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> how old were you when she went? if you were still a dependent child it's my opinion she had a more important job to do. i'm 52 and of family and friends who have served i know many forbid their children to enlist. not because being a soldier is dishonorable but because they way this country uses them dishonors all of us.



I was young and so were my siblings. Both of my parents were deployed but they had no other choice. What can they do go AWOL and ruin the rest of their life? You can't find a good career if you are dishonorably discharged. 

I don't know maybe I read more into your comment then what I should have but I didn't like the statement.


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## Little Wing (Sep 5, 2013)

NoCode8511 said:


> I was young and so were my siblings. Both of my parents were deployed but they had no other choice. What can they do go AWOL and ruin the rest of their life? You can't find a good career if you are dishonorably discharged.
> 
> I don't know maybe I read more into your comment then what I should have but I didn't like the statement.



i'm sorry if i offended you. no way in hell i could have left my kids or put myself in a position i'd have to.


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## s2h (Sep 6, 2013)

NoCode8511 said:


> I was young and so were my siblings. Both of my parents were deployed but they had no other choice. What can they do go AWOL and ruin the rest of their life? You can't find a good career if you are dishonorably discharged.
> 
> I don't know maybe I read more into your comment then what I should have but I didn't like the statement.



i'm a little out of touch with current military SOP's..isn't it a reg that both parents cant be deployed if they have minor children in there care..even if they are divorced?..just curious if that policy has changed due to the large amount of troops deployed..


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## jay_steel (Sep 6, 2013)

dieseljimmy said:


> just cause LW never served in the military doesn't mean she cant be critical of it.  isnt that kinda the fundamental reasons our forefathers started this nation.



there is one thing to be a critic of military actions, but to say a women in a picture who serves killed innocent children is horrendous and slanderous on her part. The military it self makes TONS of stupid decisions because they are made by people who have no clue what war is actually like and are not their in the work force conducting business. You can be judge those who make mistakes, but that image portrays all military service members as baby killers. That I take great offence with, after my first tour to Iraq after buring friends who i grew up with. Where I live we are a small town, but have lost the most amount of people to this war based on population. 3 guys just in my class together died and my friends mother lost 2 of her kids in the same year. But besides that after going to their funerals and getting home back to san diego I was greated with people throwing rocks at me and spitting on me. After I got back from Thailand I flew in to LAX and had some one verbally abuse me and I was on a humanitarian effort. People are ignorant and i find it funny they LW cares so much for the poors feelings and needs but has no care for the service memebers.


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## jay_steel (Sep 6, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> you must have missed this
> 
> 
> 
> and i will go on record as saying in my opinion real women take care of their kids not play soldier. that's a man's job. something fucking wrong with a female that can leave her kids like that.



how is that wrong? she is taking care of her kids, providing full medical benefits, in most states a free college education, you have no right to judge some one that you have no clue about period. Lets see how well and successful your kids are compared to some of the military moms and see how your parenting levelled up. 

A real parent will put their lives on the line to make sure their child is provided for. How do you know she isnt a single mom and the military is the only way she can support her child without being on welfare and she has family support when she deploys. I know TONS of single moms in the military that wouldnt be able to make close to the amount of money as a civillian or provide for their children with the equal life style. You throw stones at people that you have no clue about.


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## jay_steel (Sep 6, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> fighting for america just loses so much of it's glory when you take a good hard look at how things are being done here. we are neck deep in fucking clusterfuck bullshit and i find it real hard to be flag waving proud of the sickening stench of losing freedom after freedom, being spied on, the stop and frisk crap.... i don't buy the big lie. there's a LOT more to be ashamed of than proud of.



maybe i pitty you more then despise you but the flag does not represent the corrupt politicians that ruin our gov't. The gov't is not America. America is the people, the people who wake up every day to go to work, go to school, the truck drivers busting their ass to get loads in on time, the constructionmen working in 110 degree heat, the military service members who are willing to die for their people and put up with bull shit wars just so they can serve their country. The Flag represents the constitution, the founding fathers who risked it all by signing it. The level of courage and independence that someone can have. The is the American Flag... So yes I would die for that flag and I would die for America, but i will not fight a politicians war. 

I would take up arms to defend this constitution and this land, because I value what it means to be free. While the only experience you have is finding uncredited youtube videos, i have seen sex trafficing, slavery, murder, hangings, 3rd world countries and what its like not to be free. Their is no video that can EVER express these problems. That is why i fight and love this country so much, because as you bitch about some of the stupid shit in this country you have zero conception of what not being free is like. 

Maybe you are just to quick to give up because our politicians are fucking tools, and the one if office is destroying our country if not more then Bush did. But I will never give up on this land, I owe it to my family and my brother hood. Every one in the past in WW1 and WW2 who died to protect those stars. Its called patriotism, something you may never be able to express. But do your self a favor next time you hear the national anthem play. Don't fake it and lie, just sit down and put your head down. You do the flag is disjustice if you were to embrace it like everyone else.


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## jay_steel (Sep 6, 2013)

s2h said:


> i'm a little out of touch with current military SOP's..isn't it a reg that both parents cant be deployed if they have minor children in there care..even if they are divorced?..just curious if that policy has changed due to the large amount of troops deployed..



yeah one parent has to be home, unless they elect to wave that right and have a family member be a caretaker of the child then a legal power of attorneys have to be completed. This doesnt normally happen in active but it happens all the time in the Reserves. One spouse will be active and deployed and the reserve spouse will have to complete their required 2 week training. Some times they can get local training for them but if not they look to see if that spouse has immediate family that can care for them, if not then a waiver is granted to waive this years annual training.


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> there is one thing to be a critic of military  actions, but to say a women in a picture who serves killed innocent  children is horrendous and slanderous on her part. The military it self  makes TONS of stupid decisions because they are made by people who have  no clue what war is actually like and are not their in the work force  conducting business. You can be judge those who make mistakes, but that  image portrays all military service members as baby killers. That I take  great offence with, after my first tour to Iraq after buring friends  who i grew up with. Where I live we are a small town, but have lost the  most amount of people to this war based on population. 3 guys just in my  class together died and my friends mother lost 2 of her kids in the  same year. But besides that after going to their funerals and getting  home back to san diego I was greated with people throwing rocks at me  and spitting on me. After I got back from Thailand I flew in to LAX and  had some one verbally abuse me and I was on a humanitarian effort.  People are ignorant and i find it funny they LW cares so much for the  poors feelings and needs but has no care for the service  memebers.



do me a favor and collect and post photos of  all the children you're ok with calling "collateral damage" that this  country has stacked up in the last 13 years. then hush. being ordered to  kill children by an out of control military with a corrupt agenda  doesn't make it ok. Our military kills little kids and calls it  collateral damage... deal with it and stop excusing it. i'm pretty sure  you wouldn't be so quick to rationalize it if it was your kids getting  blown to shit. but it's not is it so it's some kind of twisted ok? it wouldn't matter that some of their soldiers pass out  candy when some others throw it in front of trucks so they can run over  the AMERICAN kids that go to gather it up. your sense of outrage would be less huh?


Brandon Bryant: Drone operator followed orders to shoot a child... and decided he had to quit | Mail Online


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> how is that wrong? she is taking care of her kids, providing full medical benefits, in most states a free college education, you have no right to judge some one that you have no clue about period. Lets see how well and successful your kids are compared to some of the military moms and see how your parenting levelled up.
> 
> A real parent will put their lives on the line to make sure their child is provided for. How do you know she isnt a single mom and the military is the only way she can support her child without being on welfare and she has family support when she deploys. I know TONS of single moms in the military that wouldnt be able to make close to the amount of money as a civillian or provide for their children with the equal life style. You throw stones at people that you have no clue about.



you forget i'm a daycare provider. i see the tears when parents drop sleepy kids off. i hold and comfort them and try to explain to the little toddler with the trembling lip that mommy loves them but needs to work. i think a real parent that wants to pass on a good country to their child and a sane military would not just obediently go commit war crimes when they can easily see this military action and so many before it are completely bogus. a real parent teaches their kids to think and to be very careful what path their feet follow. to not just blindly chase a dollar into combat. gonna go kill some kids for a bunch of lying sacks of shit politicians today to put bread and buttah on the table isn't a legacy any child wants from their parent. and hmmmm... now you say you can't make that money as a civilian yet i think you're one of the people that argues against giving American laborers a livable wage to get them off welfare. 

and you do NOT know tons of single moms in the military. In July of 1992, DOD published DOD Instruction 1342.19, _Family Care Plans_,  to standardize the requirements for all of the military services.  Additionally, the military services stopped accepting single-parents for  enlistment in the military.

That's 21 years ago genius. And now the percentage of single parents is very very small.


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2013)

Single Parents are not allowed to enlist in the US Military, period. Except    for the Army National Guard, waiver approvals are very, very, very rare, and    most recruiters won't even submit one. In the "old days," some recruits    would try to get around this restriction by giving up legal custody of their    child(ren) until after basic training and job school, but the military has wised    up to this practice. 
 For example, in the Marine Corps, one must give up legal custody (by court    order) of their child(ren), and then wait one year or more before being eligible    for enlistment. For Navy enlistments, the waiting period is six months and the    court-order must make it very plain that the transfer in custody is permanent.

yea, tons. and i wonder why? even the retarded military agrees kids need their parent. period.


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## heckler7 (Sep 6, 2013)

^^ I don't know anyone who is ok with killing children, I wish there was a way to get our government to do what you and I would like, the fact is our bank accounts together isn't enough to get a politician to give 2 shits about what we want.


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## jay_steel (Sep 6, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> do me a favor and collect and post photos of  all the children you're ok with calling "collateral damage" that this  country has stacked up in the last 13 years. then hush. being ordered to  kill children by an out of control military with a corrupt agenda  doesn't make it ok. Our military kills little kids and calls it  collateral damage... deal with it and stop excusing it. i'm pretty sure  you wouldn't be so quick to rationalize it if it was your kids getting  blown to shit. but it's not is it so it's some kind of twisted ok? it wouldn't matter that some of their soldiers pass out  candy when some others throw it in front of trucks so they can run over  the AMERICAN kids that go to gather it up. your sense of outrage would be less huh?
> 
> 
> Brandon Bryant: Drone operator followed orders to shoot a child... and decided he had to quit | Mail Online



i would like this fact checked i have been in the war 3 times in both countries and have never been directed to kill children. Yes children die, but the majority of those images that you see is propaganda and are actually at fault from suicide bombers and IED's. Most of the air strikes and ect that are completed that are done faulty are the result of civilians wanting to play war not the military. So again you can copy paste everything your want and believe every media source you choice to.



Little Wing said:


> you forget i'm a daycare provider. i see the tears when parents drop sleepy kids off. i hold and comfort them and try to explain to the little toddler with the trembling lip that mommy loves them but needs to work. i think a real parent that wants to pass on a good country to their child and a sane military would not just obediently go commit war crimes when they can easily see this military action and so many before it are completely bogus. a real parent teaches their kids to think and to be very careful what path their feet follow. to not just blindly chase a dollar into combat. gonna go kill some kids for a bunch of lying sacks of shit politicians today to put bread and buttah on the table isn't a legacy any child wants from their parent. and hmmmm... now you say you can't make that money as a civilian yet i think you're one of the people that argues against giving American laborers a livable wage to get them off welfare.
> 
> and you do NOT know tons of single moms in the military. In July of 1992, DOD published DOD Instruction 1342.19, _Family Care Plans_,  to standardize the requirements for all of the military services.  Additionally, the military services stopped accepting single-parents for  enlistment in the military.
> 
> That's 21 years ago genius. And now the percentage of single parents is very very small.






Little Wing said:


> Single Parents are not allowed to enlist in the US Military, period. Except    for the Army National Guard, waiver approvals are very, very, very rare, and    most recruiters won't even submit one. In the "old days," some recruits    would try to get around this restriction by giving up legal custody of their    child(ren) until after basic training and job school, but the military has wised    up to this practice.
> For example, in the Marine Corps, one must give up legal custody (by court    order) of their child(ren), and then wait one year or more before being eligible    for enlistment. For Navy enlistments, the waiting period is six months and the    court-order must make it very plain that the transfer in custody is permanent.
> 
> yea, tons. and i wonder why? even the *retarded military* agrees kids need their parent. period.



Just wanted to make that bold statement stand out a lil more. For someone who is against drone strikes you sure loved Obama who is the biggest supporter of drone warfare. 

Also you are so wrong on this statement there are ALLOT of single parents in the military. I was a recruiter and I am also a Leading Petty Officer (LPO) in the Navy. So I handle allot of single parent issues with my guys all the time.

First yes you can not enlist technically as a full custody single parent... True. However, many people do enlist and grant their mother sole custody and have less then 50% custody of their child while going through basic and then regain custody after basic training. This is VERY common. I am sure your going to judge them and say how much of a better parent you are, but a real parent will do what ever it takes to provide for their child. My father was a long hawl truck driver, it was the only way i could get food on the table was for him to drive cross country, i say him 4 times a month. My mom worked 3 jobs and i only saw her 3 hours a night and we lived pay check to paycheck. A parent has to do EVERY thing they can to provide so how dare you judge someone who is willing to be a stand up parent and not a welfare leach.

Also many military members do get a divorce and will maintain custody of their children. Most judges will actually give full custody to the military member over the none military member due to the fact of the medical facilities on base and they know they will be provided for. Yes there are some shitty parents in the military so save your time and dont go google some more bull shit that no one but your self will read.

So yes there are TONS of single parents in the military, some actually join the reserves first which you can as a single parent and transfer over to active duty, all you need to do is a power of attorney and a family care plan stating that in case your deployed someone you trust can care for your child. I know a Navy Seal who has full custody of his child and when he deploys his mother comes and takes care of them in San Diego, because his wife past away. Now if you can not complete a valid family care plan then you will be transferred to shore duty, and then based on your performance and if you can now get a family care plan completed they will decide if you can re enlist. 

These are facts...


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## jay_steel (Sep 6, 2013)

heckler7 said:


> ^^ I don't know anyone who is ok with killing children, I wish there was a way to get our government to do what you and I would like, the fact is our bank accounts together isn't enough to get a politician to give 2 shits about what we want.



If any one is responsible for killing children it is the politicians that are in office now the military. Obama is the one putting in the drone strikes, instead of using precision military tactics and utilizing Seals, SF, Rangers, and MARSOC.


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> America is the people, the people who wake up every day to go to work
> 
> for shit wages that keep many in poverty and some on foodstamps and even homeless.
> 
> ...


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## jay_steel (Sep 6, 2013)

But LW can not blame her beloved Obama or Democrats she has to blame the military service members. At this point I would love every service member to be selfish get out and start their own coalition to only fight for them selves. Then see how fast our country loses power. I agree that the top fat out of touch guys on top making decisions are piece of shits, but every ground pounder, salty dog, and flyboy deserves the respect of his country.


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## jay_steel (Sep 6, 2013)

LW why dont you pack your bags and leave this country then... Just a question since you despise it so much.


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## dieseljimmy (Sep 6, 2013)

well this has gotten to emotional to abstract reality from it


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2013)

or maybe why don't i try and fix it rather than just accept it and march off to kill people in a bumfuck desert somewhere.


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2013)

heckler7 said:


> ^^ I don't know anyone who is ok with killing children, I wish there was a way to get our government to do what you and I would like, the fact is our bank accounts together isn't enough to get a politician to give 2 shits about what we want.



exactly. and like it or not our flag represents what we have become not what we once were.


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> But LW can not blame her beloved Obama or Democrats she has to blame the military service members. At this point I would love every service member to be selfish get out and *start their own coalition to only fight for them selves*. Then see how fast our country loses power. I agree that the top fat out of touch guys on top making decisions are piece of shits, but every ground pounder, salty dog, and flyboy deserves the respect of his country.




just because i liked obama more than a guy making money off chinese slaves and sending american jobs there doesn't mean he is my beloved anything. it's me that keeps saying if people want to hurt him they need to compile a collage of all the children being killed by drones. give them faces.

do you mean concentrate on fixing this sinking ship and letting the assholes on the other side of the world fight amongst themselves like they have been for thousands of years? how is that a bad thing?


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2013)

Syria... in case anyone's wondering  still, hell fucking no. get your head out of your ass and fix this country first.


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## jay_steel (Sep 6, 2013)

evreything you stated is the result of people becoming sheep to the politicians and not owning up for what they want to be but accepting what they feel their fate is. I grew up POOR, the only reason i was not on welfare is because my mom refused it and took 3 jobs. I got beat up for being white in a mexican part of town. My mom busted her ass to send me to a better school. So now were even more broke cause rent went from 300 to 800$ in the 90's. I refused to accept the fate that was deemed for me so i busted my ass and now i make over 100k a year.. Well not sure yet this year will be my first big pay out but 8k a month after taxes. 

I also know other kids who grew up in the ghetto that had a natural work ethic who fought to not be lazy and accept what society deemed them as and are now very successful. See the problem with this country is people with your mind set they accept it and fall victim of what they feel society has planned for them. They have no desire to take an ethical risk in life to better them selves or work hard. I still want more out of my life so I personally work 3 jobs and I am a full time student. IT/Farmer/Reservist... All of this was accomplished with ZERO $ from parents or help from anyone. So why cant everyone else do this? I sought out goals and did not stop until they were completed. 

You may accept what the sheep of this country have turned to be I refuse to give up. Maybe failure and giving up is in your nature, i do not blame you for that but pitty it.

As for relating this country to other countries rapes, trafficking and drugs you are nuts. Americans have it SOOO easy, the crime committed here is no where what it is over seas. The scale is unmeasurable...

As for underpaying jobs, then maybe they should have found a way to better market them selves at a younger age before they put them selves in that position. If your 30 working at mcdonalds with no education thats your fault no one elses but your fault. If you have no skills or talents guess what your making 8$ an hour, if you dont like it take online courses, get certifications, invest in your career. Dont expect others to hold your hand when your a damn adult.


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## jay_steel (Sep 6, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> just because i liked obama more than a guy making money off chinese slaves and sending american jobs there doesn't mean he is my beloved anything. it's me that keeps saying if people want to hurt him they need to compile a collage of all the children being killed by drones. give them faces.
> 
> do you mean concentrate on fixing this sinking ship and letting the assholes on the other side of the world fight amongst themselves like they have been for thousands of years? how is that a bad thing?



Obama is Romney were the same thing if you dont think jobs are still being outsourced and anything has changed with jobs because of Obama your foolish and believe the hype. The only difference with Obama and Romney is Obama came with a pretty little bow on it called Obama care. Which in this case i would rather have the other evil and keep our current health care system. Yes it needs to be changed but not the way this guys doing it.

Ron Paul FTW...

I mean stop defending people who not appreciate the military service members service and let another country come in take control of you while they just defend the ones that appreciate them. Next time you see a man in uniform please tell him you dont appreciate his service and hes a baby killer, have the balls to stand up for what you believe, because if i saw a protester conducting anti military shit i would stand up for the service member and speak my mind. So please next time you see them be truthful and tell them you piss on the flag.


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## jay_steel (Sep 6, 2013)

but you got your point accross you hate the military service members, hate this country and flag...

I support the hard-working Americans who will fight to keep this land free. Unfortunately the service members dont decide the wars we go into those are the politicians we vote into office. So if you posted a picture of Obama talking about killing kids i feel that would be much more appropriate.


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## [SIL] (Sep 6, 2013)

it's official..a war between LW and JS..although no chemical weapons has been used yet


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2013)

sooo sheep are people who blindly follow the wills of politicians and accept their fate. like marching off to a bullshit war for a paycheck?


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> Obama is Romney were the same thing if you dont think jobs are still being outsourced and anything has changed with jobs because of Obama your foolish and believe the hype. The only difference with Obama and Romney is Obama came with a pretty little bow on it called Obama care. Which in this case i would rather have the other evil and keep our current health care system. Yes it needs to be changed but not the way this guys doing it.
> 
> Ron Paul FTW...
> 
> I mean stop defending people who not appreciate the military service members service and let another country come in take control of you while they just defend the ones that appreciate them. Next time you see a man in uniform please tell him you dont appreciate his service and hes a baby killer, have the balls to stand up for what you believe, because if i saw a protester conducting anti military shit i would stand up for the service member and speak my mind. So please next time you see them be truthful and tell them you piss on the flag.



dear fucking god.... the people coming back from those wars are the ones saying they are distraught and killing themselves because they murdered civilians and children. it's not something i concocted. you say i disrespected that mom soldier but you are just disregarding the heartfelt statements of soldiers destroyed by what they were forced to do there and witnessed there. gets in the way of your paycheck to take it seriously i think.


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## jay_steel (Sep 6, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> sooo sheep are people who blindly follow the wills of politicians and accept their fate. like marching off to a bullshit war for a paycheck?



trust me i did not march off to war for a paycheck.. lol I went to war to fight for what i felt was right. Joined the Navy to become a Seal to find those terrorist and make them pay, realized my ass cant swim no mile, went to tactical cryptologic support, and went to war to try to give the people their a better life and wanted to fight for them for their freedom. Realized it was a political bull shit and got out but stayed in the reserves incase a real reason to fight comes up. But it was not for the Money lol E3 pay on my first deployment was 1000 a month to have bullets fly at my head. Thats what I took home after paying for my gibill, tsp, and social security. So it was not for a paycheck. 

We maybe forced to go out their for a bullshit war but our individual reason for fighting are different then the politicians. As much anti military shit you want to say, we have saved lives in Iraq and we have given hope. Unfortunately it went back to shit but the last year i was their the first female was able to get an education. That was what i was fighting for.


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## jay_steel (Sep 6, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> dear fucking god.... the people coming back from those wars are the ones saying they are distraught and killing themselves because they murdered civilians and children. it's not something i concocted. you say i disrespected that mom soldier but you are just disregarding the heartfelt statements of soldiers destroyed by what they were forced to do there and witnessed there. gets in the way of your paycheck to take it seriously i think.



There are not many people committing suicide when they come back it does happen yes, but its not an epidemic. It is a tragedy yes. Yes that pissed me off with that picture, because it puts her image on a war crime that is disgusting degrading and unhonorable. How would you like your picture posted around saying i suck cock for money and drugs. And have your little daughter asking if its true...

This thread has enough, the readers know both sides and can make an educated decision on what is right... so i will end it here.


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> trust me i did not march off to war for a paycheck.. lol I went to war to fight for what i felt was right. Joined the Navy to become a Seal to find those terrorist and make them pay, realized my ass cant swim no mile, went to tactical cryptologic support, and went to war to try to give the people their a better life and wanted to fight for them for their freedom. Realized it was a political bull shit and got out but stayed in the reserves incase a real reason to fight comes up. But it was not for the Money lol E3 pay on my first deployment was 1000 a month to have bullets fly at my head. Thats what I took home after paying for my gibill, tsp, and social security. So it was not for a paycheck.
> 
> We maybe forced to go out their for a bullshit war but our individual reason for fighting are different then the politicians. As much anti military shit you want to say, we have saved lives in Iraq and we have given hope. Unfortunately it went back to shit but the last year i was their the first female was able to get an education. That was what i was fighting for.



well stay fit because if things keep going like they are we are going to need some good soldiers to overthrow this govt.


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## jay_steel (Sep 6, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> well stay fit because if things keep going like they are we are going to need some good soldiers to overthrow this govt.



all ready have my .338 Lapua, ready to rock


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## dieseljimmy (Sep 6, 2013)

[SIL] said:


> it's official..a war between LW and JS..although no chemical weapons has been used yet



the verbal assaults are significant.  but LW is the only one wearing eyeliner


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2013)

dieseljimmy said:


> the verbal assaults are significant.  but LW is the only one wearing eyeliner









don't be so sure the other guy isn't using make up. my son had some of this...


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## SheriV (Sep 6, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> Single Parents are not allowed to enlist in the US Military, period. Except    for the Army National Guard, waiver approvals are very, very, very rare, and    most recruiters won't even submit one. In the "old days," some recruits    would try to get around this restriction by giving up legal custody of their    child(ren) until after basic training and job school, but the military has wised    up to this practice.
> For example, in the Marine Corps, one must give up legal custody (by court    order) of their child(ren), and then wait one year or more before being eligible    for enlistment. For Navy enlistments, the waiting period is six months and the    court-order must make it very plain that the transfer in custody is permanent.
> 
> yea, tons. and i wonder why? even the retarded military agrees kids need their parent. period.




waivers are granted everyday. I was given a waiver after filling out a "family care plan". No need to give up custody. I was Guard but went to basic with several regular actve duty that also had waivers.
The military doesn't give a fuck on this one, trust me. And if you have to deploy and can't get shit battened down and have to hand your kids over to cps, guess what...hand over your kids to cps or be court martialed .
Also, my unit was a medical unit; ground ambulance attached to a CSH to be specific. My unit provided care for anyone that needed it , even if they were a true enemy combatant.
It is a very strange mentality to have to have, to make the snap decision as to whether you're shooting the small child approaching your convoy getting ready to throw something. Are they throwing a rock? Are they throwing paper-trash? or are they throwing a bomb...and if you hesitate will your brothers and sisters in arms be killed because you couldn't do it.

Thankfully for me...I never had any choices like that, but I don't condemn anyone who has.
yeah, I get it..killing is bad. It should be black and white and I agree politicians are a bunch of entitled fuck faces that causes needless suffering..but not everything is neatly wrapped up and black and white.


and to any civilian, please dont ever ask a vet if they killed someone...ever.


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## SheriV (Sep 6, 2013)

oh, and I marched off for a bullshit war because I saw how disgusting medical care was for vets and I was already a medic


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## heckler7 (Sep 6, 2013)

"forget injuries ; never forget kindness.  "  " What the superior man seeks is in himself what the small man seeks is in others, have no friends not equal to yourself" Confucius 551 BC.......   we still cant get our shit together and with all our advancements in medicine, technology. It would be nice to be a superpower nation concerned with the welfare of its own people rather than the destruction of others


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2013)

one question... cui bono? saudi arabia. everyone else loses. nuff said.


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## [SIL] (Sep 6, 2013)

SheriV said:


> waivers are granted everyday. I was given a waiver after filling out a "family care plan". No need to give up custody. I was Guard but went to basic with several regular actve duty that also had waivers.
> The military doesn't give a fuck on this one, trust me. And if you have to deploy and can't get shit battened down and have to hand your kids over to cps, guess what...hand over your kids to cps or be court martialed .
> Also, my unit was a medical unit; ground ambulance attached to a CSH to be specific. My unit provided care for anyone that needed it , even if they were a true enemy combatant.
> It is a very strange mentality to have to have, to make the snap decision as to whether you're shooting the small child approaching your convoy getting ready to throw something. Are they throwing a rock? Are they throwing paper-trash? or are they throwing a bomb...and if you hesitate will your brothers and sisters in arms be killed because you couldn't do it.
> ...



have you killed someone?


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2013)

good thing this guy didn't put _his_ 2 cents worth into this thread...

Stephen King thinks military people are stupid - YouTube


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## SheriV (Sep 6, 2013)

[SIL] said:


> have you killed someone?




only gay nazi's


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## s2h (Sep 6, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> do me a favor and collect and post photos of  all the children you're ok with calling "collateral damage" that this  country has stacked up in the last 13 years. then hush. being ordered to  kill children by an out of control military with a corrupt agenda  doesn't make it ok. Our military kills little kids and calls it  collateral damage... deal with it and stop excusing it. i'm pretty sure  you wouldn't be so quick to rationalize it if it was your kids getting  blown to shit. but it's not is it so it's some kind of twisted ok? it wouldn't matter that some of their soldiers pass out  candy when some others throw it in front of trucks so they can run over  the AMERICAN kids that go to gather it up. your sense of outrage would be less huh?
> 
> 
> Brandon Bryant: Drone operator followed orders to shoot a child... and decided he had to quit | Mail Online



if some 10yr old kid rolls up on my team with a bomb vest on or an Ak..he will be meeting his maker on the other side via 5.56mm...


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## jay_steel (Sep 6, 2013)

Americans conceive any one under 18 as a child. Some countries find this as a weakness because they actually start their training at a VERY young age. Some even have them start at the age of 13 with consent of their parents. So if we were to go to war with these countries we would be forced to kill 13 year olds. Sounds horrible, but its life. Everyone is so desensitized by American values that they can not even fathom what takes place in other countries. Sadams son Uday use to drive around looking for weddings to rape the bride. When your at war you cant think about your moral values you have to react on whats legal and will keep your men alive. There is no black and white with war, there is only allot of grey areas. When your over there to you will be so much enraged that you will want to kill everyone too.

My first trip, there was a work truck VBIED. That kills no military just their people, we went to inspect and pulled bodyparts of kids out of rumble, you reach down for an arm hoping to find someone with life and all you find is a severed limb. It takes a VERY level headed man or women to do this job. Not everyone is cut out of it which i still serve because someone has to do the dirty work in this country and i rather it be me, then forced upon with the people i love.


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2013)

Winter Soldiers: Clifton Hicks and Steven Casey - YouTube

Rules of Engagement | Iraq Veterans Against the War

these guys give testimony of civilians killed that were obviously non combatant. he said 700ish just in one town and swore there was not one combatant. just very hard to believe every single civilian killed was thought a threat. that's just not the case.


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2013)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28Zthm4PnKw

much longer statements.


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## s2h (Sep 6, 2013)

Your gonna believe a snitch with a porn stash....


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## Little Wing (Sep 6, 2013)

hundreds of them all saying pretty much the same thing? fucking a right i believe them. as one said, "_There comes a time when silence is betrayal_."


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## Little Wing (Sep 7, 2013)

ALL_AMERICA_MUST_SEE_THIS_Breaking_Reality_2013 - YouTubea little out there but people are getting riled.


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## cube789 (Sep 7, 2013)

[SIL] said:


> have you killed someone?



defibrillators are no joke


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## M-Way (Sep 7, 2013)

^^^lol.


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## s2h (Sep 7, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> hundreds of them all saying pretty much the same thing? fucking a right i believe them. as one said, "_There comes a time when silence is betrayal_."





At least he could have forgone the porn stash....very 80's...


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## Little Wing (Sep 7, 2013)

s2h said:


> At least he could have forgone the porn stash....very 80's...



are you talking about the soldiers that thought it'd be funny to wave their dicks at a group of little kids or soldiers showing porn to detainees? or maybe you just miss your stash from the 80s?  i think most porn stashes are on computer now.


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## Little Wing (Sep 7, 2013)

i'm skeptical about the bin ladin  porn stash. it wasn't clearly linked to him if it did exist and seems like discrediting propaganda to be frank.


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## jacmo (Sep 7, 2013)

How the hell does this make sense? Assad uses Sarin and kill a thousand people. Tragic? YES! Now we (American govt) wants to launch 200 Tomahawk missiles as well as strikes from B-1 and B-2 bombers. How many Syrians will die from that? Soo... It's OK to BLOW THEM UP just dont gas em?!?! WTF??


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## M-Way (Sep 7, 2013)

jacmo said:


> How the hell does this make sense? Assad uses Sarin and kill a thousand people. Tragic? YES! Now we (American govt) wants to launch 200 Tomahawk missiles as well as strikes from B-1 and B-2 bombers. How many Syrians will die from that? Soo... It's OK to BLOW THEM UP just dont gas em?!?! WTF??



America is basically saying there is a moral line that every country on the globe cannot cross. The red line. You can do what you like up to a point in your sovereign borders but there are things you will never be allowed to do. One is the systematic industrial killing of your citizens. The problem is the gap between the desire for the red line (and it is a right and good desire) and the difficulty in being consistent, both now and the baggage of past and historic inconsistencies, hypocrisies and abuses that haunt. 

Why bother with the red line? Why be the world police? Well why bother with democracy, why bother with emancipation? Why bother with WHO targets etc? The arrow can only point in one direction, these things are what a benign order has to strive for. It can be ignored and avoided but any decent president will see it as the highest form of good they can do, to at least to move it along a little. 

Put another way, did they ignore the red line on their watch? Did they do anything to move the arrow along. Or did they hide in home affairs? Did they just protect themselves politically from the danger of it?

Obama is pushing this for end reasons that far outweigh the means that people in this thread are bitching about. Omlettes and eggs.


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## Little Wing (Sep 7, 2013)

jacmo said:


> How the hell does this make sense? Assad uses Sarin and kill a thousand people. Tragic? YES! Now we (American govt) wants to launch 200 Tomahawk missiles as well as strikes from B-1 and B-2 bombers. How many Syrians will die from that? Soo... It's OK to BLOW THEM UP just dont gas em?!?! WTF??



it makes way more sense that saudi arabia orchestrated this to get us to attack then launch a full blown war when someone retaliates.


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## Little Wing (Sep 7, 2013)

curt posted something about kerry admitting the oil sheiks are offering to pay for this war. Kerry Tells Congress That Oil Sheiks Will Pay US for War to Unseat Assad


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## theCaptn' (Sep 7, 2013)

M-Way said:


> America is basically saying there is a moral line that every country on the globe cannot cross. The red line. You can do what you like up to a point in your sovereign borders but there are things you will never be allowed to do. One is the systematic industrial killing of your citizens. The problem is the gap between the desire for the red line (and it is a right and good desire) and the difficulty in being consistent, both now and the baggage of past and historic inconsistencies, hypocrisies and abuses that haunt.



This is bullshit. Genocidal atrocities are common in Africa - re Dalfour in Sudan - America sent a bunch of Celebrities to sort it out


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## Little Wing (Sep 7, 2013)

if we hand prisoners over to the Iraqi police to get raped with bottles so we can gather "intelligence" i don't think we have any right to draw morality lines for anyone else.


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## M-Way (Sep 8, 2013)

theCaptn' said:


> *This is bullshit*. Genocidal atrocities are common in Africa - re Dalfour in Sudan - America sent a bunch of Celebrities to sort it out



True. I have to maintain my own consistency.


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## M-Way (Sep 8, 2013)

But if you read the post properly, you stupid thick cunt, you'd see I made a catch-all which encompasses your example. This makes Little Shrew's 'like' the perfect woodentop bookend to match. A brace of vacant tarts.  There is too little time to educate pork.


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## Little Wing (Sep 8, 2013)

M-Way said:


> But if you read the post properly, you stupid thick cunt, you'd see I made a catch-all which encompasses your example. This makes Little Shrew's 'like' the perfect woodentop bookend to match. A brace of vacant tarts.  There is too little time to educate pork.



i was agreeing with you. you on the rag? you mentioned hypocrisies and abuses. it's very clear we were making the same point. your mom didn't breast feed you did she?


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## Little Wing (Sep 8, 2013)

i read it as captn agreeing with you usa drawing moralities lines was bullshit not your pointing it out. if it was about morality we'd be drawing them in places where we don't stand to gain anything but moral victories and we don't do that as he pointed out.


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## M-Way (Sep 8, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i was agreeing with you. you on the rag? you mentioned hypocrisies and abuses. it's very clear we were making the same point. your mom didn't breast feed you did she?



Next time maybe post 'I agree' rather than obliquely liking an easily misinterpretable post by someone else. 

You offering to?




Little Wing said:


> i read it as captn agreeing with you usa drawing moralities lines was bullshit not your pointing it out. if it was about morality we'd be drawing them in places where we don't stand to gain anything but moral victories and we don't do that as he pointed out.



Nothing can be done simply for the moral good alone, many things have to be served by an expensive intervention. It has to win future votes, pay for itself and hey, generate some profit, spread the payback around to backers. They are webs, in some aspects cold and sinister enough to feed you with paranoid teen anti-parent-therefore-all adult-establishment conspiracy theories.

Run a government, tell me how you got along.


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## s2h (Sep 8, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> are you talking about the soldiers that thought it'd be funny to wave their dicks at a group of little kids or soldiers showing porn to detainees? or maybe you just miss your stash from the 80s?  i think most porn stashes are on computer now.



I hope it was not 80's porn...a few Sara Jay v Mandingo videos would get the Al Camelqedo spilling more then there beans...


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## s2h (Sep 8, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> curt posted something about kerry admitting the oil sheiks are offering to pay for this war. Kerry Tells Congress That Oil Sheiks Will Pay US for War to Unseat Assad



Sure they will...there oil pipelines all run thru Syria to sea ports...nobody cares about Sarin gas or kids getting capped or better 80's porn stash GI's jiggling there ding dongs(well except you LW)..its about oil and money.. ...

We have to lead the way so my Jewish brothers dont get the red ass and start wiping the middle east like a dirty asshole...

Mulatto Obama just doesn't know which dick to get in his mouth first...so hence the huge cluster fuck....


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## Little Wing (Sep 8, 2013)

i just read this and thought it should be posted here


President Obama

So why then does our president appear to be beating the drums of war?  The simple answer is he is now regarded as a hawkish leader before the  US and the world. And he does so without having to fire a shot. He  appears wholeheartedly in favor of a strike and is playing the part  well. The hawk stands upon his perch without lifting a talon as Congress  now takes any and all responsibility for lack of action on the part of  the US. And during this entire debacle, he even manages to make  republicans come out as anti-war; something even no one thought possible  only a month ago.


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## Little Wing (Sep 8, 2013)

if russia and china tell obama to back down and he does won't he look like a pussy? doesn't it only _increase _odds he will strike to show we don't take orders from them?


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## heckler7 (Sep 8, 2013)

napalm, agent orange, and god only knows what else has been used liberally by us in other countries. To say chemicals is our red line is BS this war is about the oil pipeline and destabilizing Irans biggest ally for our future war with Iran


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## M-Way (Sep 9, 2013)

heckler7 said:


> napalm, agent orange, and god only knows what else has been used liberally by us in other countries. To say chemicals is our red line is BS this war is about the oil pipeline and destabilizing Irans biggest ally for our future war with Iran


  Napalm, AO, white phosphorous and certain munitions are now beyond the self imposed red line of the US. Time will add more. No ground troops were sent into Libya. Hear how limited the action on Syria being persued by Kerry is. No this and no that...still not enough for members here. Write them.


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## M-Way (Sep 9, 2013)

Churchill wanted to gas the German V1 sites in 1944, Eisenhower told him to 'speak sense.' 69 years ago!


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## DOMS (Sep 9, 2013)

heckler7 said:


> napalm, agent orange, and god only knows what else has been used liberally by us in other countries. To say chemicals is our red line is BS this war is about the oil pipeline and destabilizing Irans biggest ally for our future war with Iran



The US hasn't used napalm since the mid-70s and Agent Orange since the late 70s (last used by America on American soil).


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## heckler7 (Sep 9, 2013)

M-Way said:


> Napalm, AO, white phosphorous and certain munitions are now beyond the self imposed red line of the US. Time will add more. No ground troops were sent into Libya. Hear how limited the action on Syria being persued by Kerry is. No this and no that...still not enough for members here. Write them.


as well as depleted uranium rounds which are believed to have caused some of the mysterious illnesses in Vets



DOMS said:


> The US hasn't used napalm since the mid-70s and Agent Orange since the late 70s (last used by America on American soil).


funny thing about that, it takes 10 minutes to mount a napalm canister on a ter or single rail pylon 2 explosive discharge carts installed on rail 1/2 speed handle locks it on 13/16 slim wrench to run down carts to contact munitions , I'm sorry what were you saying?


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## M-Way (Sep 9, 2013)

Depleted uranium in munitions is in the catagory of 'controversial' rather than 'horror weapon'.


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## malk (Sep 9, 2013)

Well there going to hand over all there chem weapons now,thanks to russian intervention
Obama seems too like this,so war is now most certainly avoided


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## malk (Sep 9, 2013)

M-Way said:


> Churchill wanted to gas the German V1 sites in 1944, Eisenhower told him to 'speak sense.' 69 years ago!


He burned most of germany instead with bomber comand lol


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## M-Way (Sep 9, 2013)

malk said:


> He burned most of germany instead with bomber comand lol


  With which the British public was appalled. A monument to Bomber Command was only recently made. Arthur 'Bomber' Harris the guy in charge was the only wartime leader not knighted.


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## SheriV (Sep 9, 2013)

heckler7 said:


> as well as depleted uranium rounds which are believed to have caused some of the mysterious illnesses in Vets
> 
> funny thing about that, it takes 10 minutes to mount a napalm canister on a ter or single rail pylon 2 explosive discharge carts installed on rail 1/2 speed handle locks it on 13/16 slim wrench to run down carts to contact munitions , I'm sorry what were you saying?




I knew a kid who had a lot of depleted uranium munitions round up/clean up details that came home and died of kidney cancer at 27 yrs old


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## SheriV (Sep 9, 2013)

when I enlisted my recruiter actually told me to show them as much of my vac records as possible because he didn't trust what they were injecting...lucky for me I had everything including a small pox vaccine from a rescue worker scare post 9/11...only thing they shot me up with was the tb test they did wrong

hell of a sales pitch though from the recruiter I thought.


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## M-Way (Sep 9, 2013)

SheriV said:


> I knew a kid who had a lot of depleted uranium munitions round up/clean up details that came home and died of kidney cancer at 27 yrs old



Fuck, that is so rough.


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## SheriV (Sep 9, 2013)

yeah..lotta rumors around that one


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## s2h (Sep 9, 2013)

SheriV said:


> yeah..lotta rumors around that one



i'm sure LW has a theory about it


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## kobefan234 (Sep 12, 2013)

I wish US would stop killing people in Pakistan. I live there 8 months a year. Many family have died.


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## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2013)

s2h said:


> i'm sure LW has a theory about it



yea, that he weren't no senator's son


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## Little Wing (Sep 12, 2013)

Creedence Clearwater Revival: Fortunate Son - YouTube


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## s2h (Sep 13, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> yea, that he weren't no senator's son



CCR song????


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## s2h (Sep 13, 2013)

kobefan234 said:


> I wish US would stop killing people in Pakistan. I live there 8 months a year. Many family have died.




I agree....wounding everyone would work out better...takes 2 to care for 1 wounded terrorist...pot odds call it...


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## M-Way (Sep 13, 2013)

^^^ rofl, gold.


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## Zaphod (Sep 13, 2013)

malk said:


> Well there going to hand over all there chem weapons now,thanks to russian intervention
> Obama seems too like this,so war is now most certainly avoided



Probably not.  Obomba and his minions are probably hard at work trying to find another reason to bomb more people into democracy.


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## Zaphod (Sep 13, 2013)

malk said:


> He burned most of germany instead with bomber comand lol



The US used quite a bit of incendiary weapons on Japan.  We are also the only nation that would not agree to no longer use them.


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## [SIL] (Sep 14, 2013)

*U.S., Russia agree to framework on Syria chemical weapons

(CNN)* -- Russia and the United States announced Saturday that they have reached a groundbreaking deal on a framework to eliminate Syria's chemical weapons, after talks in Switzerland.U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov stood side-by-side as they set out a series of steps the Syria government must follow.
Syria must submit within one week a comprehensive list of its chemical weapons stockpile, Kerry said. International inspectors must be on the ground no later than November, he said.
Senior U.S. State Department officials said the timeline for action is the complete initial inspections of declared chemical weapons sites by November; the complete destruction of production and mixing and filling equipment by November; and the complete elimination of all chemical weapons material in first half of 2014.
The best way to ensure international control of Syria's chemical weapons arsenal will be to remove as much as is feasible and to destroy it outside of Syria if possible, the framework document says






looks like common sense prevailed..for now


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## malk (Sep 14, 2013)

Zaphod said:


> Probably not.  Obomba and his minions are probably hard at work trying to find another reason to bomb more people into democracy.



Britain wanted a resolution in this new mandate for "instant military action" if any rules were broken,us and Russia
rejected this option.
If anything I think an outside incident will start any conflict, maybe isreal or even Britain might still have a hand to
play,let alone countrys like turkey who might be pushed by the cia into starting something.Its all games
from now on.....


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