# new diet



## BigE (Aug 30, 2003)

im 20 years of age 6' 255 lbs and pretty strong, but i have a gut and love handles and i was wondering what kinda diet and can do to cut that and to build incredible muscle at the same time thanx


----------



## P-funk (Aug 30, 2003)

What does your current diet look like???  Post what a typical day of food looks like for you.

Did you read any of the stickies at the top of the forum??  It may be a good idea to read those and then try and come up with your own diet.....post that and then people can help you fix it up.


----------



## BigE (Aug 30, 2003)

i get up and have like 5-6 egg whites and a bowl of oatmeal with a glass of skim milk and then i try to have a snack but most of the time dont and then i have like 2 cans of tuna and some fruit for lunch and then a protein shake and i try eat something healthy for dinner and then i go workout and have another protein shake and thats it


----------



## rkurashima (Aug 31, 2003)

Four meals per day isn't enough. Meal one is almost exactly what I eat for breakfast, but the rest of your "meals" are not descriptive enough. Are you doing cardio? What are you doing in the gym? You're a big guy and I would suspect you aren't taking in enough carbs to sustain a steady fat burning. Also IMO I would lose the fruit and get my carbs from something without sugar in it.


----------



## P-funk (Aug 31, 2003)

What kind of fruit are you eating????  There is no reason to lose the fruit.  How many cals are you consuming a day??????  Someone your size is going to have to eat a lot of calories.


----------



## rkurashima (Aug 31, 2003)

Unless he REALY NEEDS the fruit for something, why would he want to keep it in lieu of something with a lower GI? I don't think someone weighing 255 lbs. @ 6' with a concern for losing unwanted BF will benefit from fruit unless he isn't getting the vitamins he needs from other sources or supplements. If anything I think he should at least save the fruit for his pre-workout meal.


----------



## BigE (Aug 31, 2003)

i eat whatever fruit i buy that week at the store apples, pears, peaches, strawberries, banana, oranges anything that is really on sale that week for the calories i dont really look at the calories i heard u dont really have to watch those that much but i dont know and i workout mon, wed, fri and do cardio sun, tues, thur for 30-45 min


----------



## rkurashima (Aug 31, 2003)

I am in no way an authority in this arena so my advice is really open to anyone out there that can steer me the right way. For BigE's benefit and my own. With that said...
   You definitely do have to watch those calories. No calories are freebies. Fruits have fructose which is pretty high on the glycemic index. Not as high as simple sugars, but still pretty high. I know fruits are easy to whip out and eat any time and place. I personally stay away from too much fruits. Too much for me is more than 3-4 servings per week. I'll eat 3-4 slices of peaches with my cottage cheese or an apple with breakfast, but no more than 3-4 meals per week. I am taking a strong multi-vitamin though and I do realize that fruits are a great source of natural vitamins. I guess I'm just scared of the sugar and would rather get the calories and vitamins somewhere else.


----------



## papaoso2k1 (Aug 31, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by rkurashima *_
> I am in no way an authority in this arena so my advice is really open to anyone out there that can steer me the right way. For BigE's benefit and my own. With that said...
> You definitely do have to watch those calories. No calories are freebies. Fruits have fructose which is pretty high on the glycemic index. Not as high as simple sugars, but still pretty high. I know fruits are easy to whip out and eat any time and place. I personally stay away from too much fruits. Too much for me is more than 3-4 servings per week. I'll eat 3-4 slices of peaches with my cottage cheese or an apple with breakfast, but no more than 3-4 meals per week. I am taking a strong multi-vitamin though and I do realize that fruits are a great source of natural vitamins. I guess I'm just scared of the sugar and would rather get the calories and vitamins somewhere else.



Dude...FYI some fruits score really low on the gi index....apples score just under 40....wich is lower than sweet potatoes and brown rice and oats. strawberries are also really low.


BigE.....My advice to you is that if you need fruit then by all means have fruit....just try to keep it under control. I say this because about a month ago I started a new diet and was so brainwashed about fruit making you fat that i cut all fruit from my diet.....Therefore when I suffered cravings and couldnt find fruit I turned to cookies...I noticed i couldn fight my own body....so I try to work with it....When I have a craving for something I eat 3 or 4 strawberries...or an apple or a small plum... I figure that is better than going on a binge eating feast....

Another thing I do is that I try to stick to my diet 6 days a week. Mon-sat....on sundays I give myself some room....I cheat a LITTLE....Not something like a HUGE pizza from pizza hut, I mean... a nice meatball sandwich or something homemade... Just to keep me sane.

Heres a link to the GI indexGI INDEX 
ANOTHER GI INDEX


----------



## rkurashima (Sep 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by papaoso2k1 *_
> Dude...FYI some fruits score really low on the gi index....apples score just under 40....wich is lower than sweet potatoes and brown rice and oats. strawberries are also really low.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info. I didn't know that apples were that low!! Everyone is different about those cravings though. I NEVER crave cookies, candies, chips or anything like that. My weakness is regular food. I can eat like a pig. Screw desert just give me another plate. That said... I will probably be increasing my fruit intake a little thanks to you!!


----------



## naturalguy (Sep 1, 2003)

There is nothing wrong with fruit. This whole GI thing is getting blown out of proportion, people take a small piece of information and just run with it.

GI only applies to foods eaten on an empty stomach, when you combine higher GI foods with protein and fat, it slows down the absorbtion of the food.

There is alot of fruit that is not high in GI as well. It all depends on your overall calories and your activity.


----------



## SolidToTheCORE (Sep 1, 2003)

BIG-E -

Fruit seems to be the LEAST of your worries. You diet is lacking in total calories. Without knowing your BF, I would guess your BMR close to 3200-3800 calories a day. There is no way you are coming close to that. Also, your diet is lacking in fats and carbs. I would redesign it and repost. 6-7 meals a day, no carbs after 6pm, total calories over 3000. 

Image your body as a fire. Without the proper fuel your fire dies.


----------



## naturalguy (Sep 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by SolidToTheCORE *_
> BIG-E -
> 
> Fruit seems to be the LEAST of your worries. You diet is lacking in total calories. Without knowing your BF, I would guess your BMR close to 3200-3800 calories a day. There is no way you are coming close to that. Also, your diet is lacking in fats and carbs. I would redesign it and repost. 6-7 meals a day, no carbs after 6pm, total calories over 3000.
> ...




Please stop with the "no carbs after 6pm" this is a completely baseless claim.


----------



## SolidToTheCORE (Sep 1, 2003)

Baseless?  You're not serious are you? What would you think if  I said," Hey, before bed eat a 1 cup of oatmeal and a Tbsp spoon of honey."  

And when you say "baseless claim" .... what do you assume that was claimed? and what are you claiming?  

http://maxmag.maxsportsinternational.com/fatloss/issue43/43fl1.htm

I learned from Todd. Who learned from Lee. If you can enlighten me on why this information is incorrect. I am open to your guidance. (even though I am inclined to go with Lee on this one)


----------



## SolidToTheCORE (Sep 1, 2003)

Focus on daily behavior as opposed to 
results.
No Carbohydrates after 6pm (rice, potatoes, 
pasta, bread, etc.) see authorized 
foods list cut out guide below.
Do 20-30 minutes of cardiovascular exercise 
2-4 times per week.
Drink 1 gallon of water per day minimum.
Eat your lean body weight in grams of 
protein daily.
Eat every 3 hours. This keeps your metabolism going in order to
burn fat and calories.
Prepare your meals ahead of time so they are ready when it's 
time to eat.
Eat before you get hungry. This keeps you from getting hungry 
and overeating.
Take Sundays off as your FREE day.
Don't eat anything that has more than 20% of its total calories 
derived from fat.
Take glutamine with a long-term protein such as Max Pro or Max 
High 5.


----------



## naturalguy (Sep 1, 2003)

1.The body does not magically start to store carbs as fat at a certain time of the day. They body is in a constant state of repair and rebuilding.

2. Not all carbs are created equal. If you eat a bag of potato chips at 10pm and I ate a bowl of oatmeal, our bodies would use them very differently.

3. It all depends on what time you train, I train at night and you need to replenish glycogen stores after training.

4. It all depends on your total caloric intake for the day, if those carb calories fit in your daily intake, it's ok to eat them after 6.

What you should do is eat your starchy carbs around your training and at other times of the day eat fibrous carbs (veggies).


----------



## P-funk (Sep 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> 1.The body does not magically start to store carbs as fat at a certain time of the day. They body is in a constant state of repair and rebuilding.
> 
> 2. Not all carbs are created equal. If you eat a bag of potato chips at 10pm and I ate a bowl of oatmeal, our bodies would use them very differently.
> ...



 


I can't stand this myth "don't eat carbs after 6pm!!".  The body doesn't not simply shut down after 6pm, making it harder for us to digest carbs which would lead to fat storage.......A bag of candy corn at 9pm is no different than a bag of candy corn at 9am.......junk is junk.

Now, it is not beneficial to spike insulin levels before bed time because in males, during the 3-4 stages of REM is when we get the most growth hormone release.......and insulin is going to supress the release of the growth hormone...But slow burning carbs and fiberous carbs along with some fat and protein before bed is okay because we need something in there because we are about to go on an eight hour, or so, fast.......Our bodies dont;t just turn of like a light when we go to sleep....they keep working, and repairing our damaged tissue so having food (protein/carbs/fats) is only going to augment that process.


----------



## SolidToTheCORE (Sep 1, 2003)

we agree to disagree. you are missing my point.  

1.The body does not magically start to store carbs as fat at a certain time of the day. They body is in a constant state of repair and rebuilding.

1.A. No shit, thats not the point. And I don't like the magical comment.  They body is an a constant state of what? Homeostatis is the magical word you are looking foor.

2. Not all carbs are created equal. If you eat a bag of potato chips at 10pm and I ate a bowl of oatmeal, our bodies would use them very differently.


2.A.  Not relevant to our topic. Potato chips would be something you might eat at 10pm not me.  I don't believe in giving my body carbs before bed. You are a sleep, why do you need it?

3. It all depends on what time you train, I train at night and you need to replenish glycogen stores after training.


3.A. yes, this is a point, but GI is a factor, and complex carbs aren't the carbs you would want anyway

4. It all depends on your total caloric intake for the day, if those carb calories fit in your daily intake, it's ok to eat them after 6.

4.A. So basically with your logic I can eat no carbs all day and go and eat the (best source of carbs in your opinion) up to 400 grams if my total caloric intake allows it?


5. What you should do is eat your starchy carbs around your training and at other times of the day eat fibrous carbs (veggies).

5a. And if you would have read the article, what does it say?
"No Carbohydrates after 6pm (rice, potatoes, pasta, bread, etc.) 
See this are what you call starchy carbs. I a think I know what veggies are. Unless you suggest that I eat a bowl of carrots and corns before bed.

And P-funk you may or may not realize it you agree with me.

I dont like the way you approached me with this topic Mr. NaturalGuy.  "Please stop with the "no carbs after 6pm" this is a completely baseless claim." You do want you thing is best for you if you need me to clarify want I wrote. Then I would have done so.

I even posted the article on which my knowledge comes from.  And you jump at me again, I learned my diet techinques from Todd Howard and Lee Haney. I am just passing them on to a newbie. I KNOW it works to cut bodyfat. It is a fact. It is not a belief. I am pissed that someone would try to call my out out something, without getting there facts straight. No class. But, hey I guess thats NY.
__________________


----------



## SolidToTheCORE (Sep 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> What you should do is eat your starchy carbs around your training and at other times of the day eat fibrous carbs (veggies).



Low glycemic index foods should make up most of your pre-workout meals, By having reserve energy during and after your training sessions, replenishing of energy  stores will be more likely to occur faster. Foods  that can be classified as low glycemic are fructose, whole wheat pasta, baked beans, butter beans, kidney beans, soy beans, chick-peas, lentils, milk, peanuts, apples, oranges, yams, oats, whole wheat bread.......if you would like more examples let me know.

I hate the term starchy carbs. I find it easier to explain as High Glycemic carbs and Low Glycemic carbs. When you say starchy carbs it could be white rice (GI 70) or brown rice (GI 60) or white flour spaghetti (58) or whole wheat spaghetti (40)

I like this:" Mr.Jones, for breakfast I would like you to eat some low glycemic carbs(oatmeal, buchwheat pancakes) and high glycemic carbs (honey, bananna, raisins) and some protein.....blah,blah,blah"


--- So this is were the teaching is no carbs after 6pm or 7pm. 
You may eat all of the green leafy veggies that you like. Eat them up. Yum, Yum....me like spinach. (fibrous carbs)


----------



## naturalguy (Sep 1, 2003)

I am sorry that you took that as a personal attack, it was not. 

I was just trying to educate. It was a very blanket statement to tell someone not to eat carbs before bed without knowing all the factors. 

I am sorry you don't like my "magical" comment but where did you come up with 6pm from? if it is not magical please provide a reference.

My potato chip example was very relevant and for the record I do not eat them, it was used for an example.

I never said that you should eat all your carbs in one meal, don't put words in my mouth. I said that if the carbs fit in your caloric requirments for the day, then it is ok.

You shouldn't be so sensitive but, hey I guess that's LA for you.


----------



## SolidToTheCORE (Sep 1, 2003)

I guess it must be a LA thing.  Gangs, Cops, Protestors, No governor, Traffic, Smog, No Parking, No worries---

Once apon a time Lee Haney said," Don't eat carbs after 6 or 7 pm, body dont need em" So I do it. It works. It is a very blanket statement. But, if I need to be to the point the just refer to the article.  .... .... ....


----------



## naturalguy (Sep 1, 2003)

I hear you, it's cool, we are all here to share ideas.

Although I am a huge Lee Haney fan, I take alot of what the pro's say with a grain of salt. These guys are playing on a different field, they have the assistance of anabolic agents that allow them to eat real low carb diets and not lose muscle as the anabolic agents allow them to have higher nitrogen retention.


----------



## papaoso2k1 (Sep 2, 2003)

WHO THE FUCK IS THIS LEE HANEY GUY???AND WHy the hell is he such an autorithy in carbs after 6pm???


----------



## naturalguy (Sep 2, 2003)

papa,

      Lee Haney is the greatest bodybuilder to ever live, he holds a record 8 Mr. Olympia titles!

     As I stated the rules for professional bodybuilders are quite different from you and me, we are not on the same playing field.


----------



## papaoso2k1 (Sep 2, 2003)

8 olympia titles....damn....and i tought ronnie coleman was a freak.... 

So he said you shouldnt eat carbs after 6 right?? what happens at 6?? the carb processing part of your body gets off work or what??


----------



## SolidToTheCORE (Sep 2, 2003)

just let it go.


----------



## SolidToTheCORE (Sep 3, 2003)

Reduce Starchy Carbs at Night 

For most, starchy carbs make up a substantial portion of their evening meals. Pasta, rice, potatoes??? these are nightly staples in the standard American diet. Steak and fries, spaghetti and meatballs- what would dinner be without them? 

The trouble with starchy carbs is that they are readily transformed to fat when eaten before bedtime. The reason for this is simple: The primary function of carbohydrates is to supply short-term energy for your daily activities. If carbs are not used immediately for fuel, they have two possible fates; they either are stored as glycogen in your liver and muscles or are converted into fatty acids and stored in adipose tissue as bodyfat. Since activity levels usually are lowest during the evening hours, there is a diminished use of carbs for fuel and therefore an increased potential for bodyfat storage. 

In general, the best time to consume carbs is early in the day, when your activity levels are at their peak. This will allow your body to utilize a maximal amount of carbs for energy and minimize the potential for fat deposition. Breakfast, in particular, is an excellent time to load up on complex carbs. A large bowl of rolled oats or bran cereal will set the stage for fueling your daily activities and keep you physically and mentally fit throughout the day. 

On the other hand, it is best to limit your dinner fare to fibrous, vegetable-based food sources. Fibrous vegetables tend to be extremely low in total calories and, because of their bulk, are very filling. For supper, consider eating a meal consisting of lean poultry or fish combined with a large bowl of salad greens. Other vegetables (i.e. broccoli, string beans, cauliflower, zucchini, etc) also make fine nighttime carbohydrate choices, and will reduce the potential for unwanted bodyfat storage.


----------



## naturalguy (Sep 3, 2003)

what if you work out at night as many people do?


----------



## SolidToTheCORE (Sep 3, 2003)

Reduce Starchy Carbs at Night 

For most, starchy carbs make up a substantial portion of their evening meals. Pasta, rice, potatoes??? these are nightly staples in the standard American diet. Steak and fries, spaghetti and meatballs- what would dinner be without them? 

The trouble with starchy carbs is that they are readily transformed to fat when eaten before bedtime. The reason for this is simple: The primary function of carbohydrates is to supply short-term energy for your daily activities. If carbs are not used immediately for fuel, they have two possible fates; they either are stored as glycogen in your liver and muscles or are converted into fatty acids and stored in adipose tissue as bodyfat. Since activity levels usually are lowest during the evening hours, there is a diminished use of carbs for fuel and therefore an increased potential for bodyfat storage. 

In general, the best time to consume carbs is early in the day, when your activity levels are at their peak. This will allow your body to utilize a maximal amount of carbs for energy and minimize the potential for fat deposition. Breakfast, in particular, is an excellent time to load up on complex carbs. A large bowl of rolled oats or bran cereal will set the stage for fueling your daily activities and keep you physically and mentally fit throughout the day. 

On the other hand, it is best to limit your dinner fare to fibrous, vegetable-based food sources. Fibrous vegetables tend to be extremely low in total calories and, because of their bulk, are very filling. For supper, consider eating a meal consisting of lean poultry or fish combined with a large bowl of salad greens. Other vegetables (i.e. broccoli, string beans, cauliflower, zucchini, etc) also make fine nighttime carbohydrate choices, and will reduce the potential for unwanted bodyfat storage.


----------



## SolidToTheCORE (Sep 3, 2003)

Figure it out.


----------



## SolidToTheCORE (Sep 3, 2003)

I am having this same post with you on like three threads. I am done will this one.


----------



## SolidToTheCORE (Sep 3, 2003)

oh wait.


----------



## SolidToTheCORE (Sep 3, 2003)

one moreReduce Starchy Carbs at Night 

For most, starchy carbs make up a substantial portion of their evening meals. Pasta, rice, potatoes??? these are nightly staples in the standard American diet. Steak and fries, spaghetti and meatballs- what would dinner be without them? 

The trouble with starchy carbs is that they are readily transformed to fat when eaten before bedtime. The reason for this is simple: The primary function of carbohydrates is to supply short-term energy for your daily activities. If carbs are not used immediately for fuel, they have two possible fates; they either are stored as glycogen in your liver and muscles or are converted into fatty acids and stored in adipose tissue as bodyfat. Since activity levels usually are lowest during the evening hours, there is a diminished use of carbs for fuel and therefore an increased potential for bodyfat storage. 

In general, the best time to consume carbs is early in the day, when your activity levels are at their peak. This will allow your body to utilize a maximal amount of carbs for energy and minimize the potential for fat deposition. Breakfast, in particular, is an excellent time to load up on complex carbs. A large bowl of rolled oats or bran cereal will set the stage for fueling your daily activities and keep you physically and mentally fit throughout the day. 

On the other hand, it is best to limit your dinner fare to fibrous, vegetable-based food sources. Fibrous vegetables tend to be extremely low in total calories and, because of their bulk, are very filling. For supper, consider eating a meal consisting of lean poultry or fish combined with a large bowl of salad greens. Other vegetables (i.e. broccoli, string beans, cauliflower, zucchini, etc) also make fine nighttime carbohydrate choices, and will reduce the potential for unwanted bodyfat storage.


----------



## ponyboy (Sep 4, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by SolidToTheCORE *_
> one moreReduce Starchy Carbs at Night
> 
> For most, starchy carbs make up a substantial portion of their evening meals. Pasta, rice, potatoes??? these are nightly staples in the standard American diet. Steak and fries, spaghetti and meatballs- what would dinner be without them?
> ...



Dude, no offense....but this "article" which you have posted three times doesn't say anything that you can't find on any website, newsletter or diet fad book.  What is the source?  

"Since activity levels are lowest during the evening hours"...what if you do your workouts at night?  I often either play sports or bike or run at 7-8pm, and afterwards I require things to replenish my glycogen stores and try to avoid going greatly catabolic, which means carbs and some protein and EFA's.  Therefore I often eat an hour or so before sleeping.  The point is that you can make smart carb choices or bad carb choices.  Instead of pasta, eat a sweet potato.  Instead of fruit, eat vegetables.  

Articles don't mean anything is true.  As with many things in fitness and health, if you find ten articles "proving" one opinion, I can find ten disproving it.  

Bottom line...do what works for you as an individual.


----------



## SolidToTheCORE (Sep 4, 2003)

have a nice day.


----------

