# Cortisol-



## awhites1 (Dec 1, 2010)

B-Androstenetriol (transdermal suppress C from CEL) or Adrenosterone (Androst-4-ene-3,11,17-trione) (11 sterone also by CEL)?

*The positive-*I like the transdermal b/c I dont like taking pills, I can but I just dont like to. Which is more effective?


*The possible negative-*also a point of concern, I know the androstenetriol has to do with uping DHEA in the body but I heard DHEA has a high affinity for converting to estrogen... is this true?


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## awhites1 (Dec 1, 2010)

I hate to bump two of my own questions in just a few hours in one day but I'm trying to place an order and want to know if I should order 11 sterone or Suppress C transdermal like today or tomorrow so....


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## VolcomX311 (Dec 1, 2010)

awhites1 said:


> B-Androstenetriol (transdermal suppress C from CEL) or Adrenosterone (Androst-4-ene-3,11,17-trione) (11 sterone also by CEL)?
> 
> *The positive-*I like the transdermal b/c I dont like taking pills, I can but I just dont like to. Which is more effective?
> 
> ...


 
Good questions 

Suppress C contains Androst-5-ene-3b, 7b, 17b-triol. Androst-5-ene-3b, 7b, 17b-triol is a metabolite of DHEA and DHEA is a cortisol anatogonist. Adrenosterone (11-sterone) aka 11-sterone is a selective inhibitor of 11b-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type I reductase. 11b-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type I reductase turns cortisone into cortisol and by inhibiting this process of cortisone converting to cortisol, you therefore, reduce overall cortisol.

Addressing Androst-5-ene-3b, 7b, 17b-triol aka Suppress C.  Androst-5-ene-3b, 7b, 17b-triol is a DHEA metobolite, which means it is involved in the metabolic process of DHEA.  As far as I understand, the average male produces approximately 25mg of DHEA a day under natural processes.  I don't know that taking a metabolite will send you into hyper-production of DHEA, which may result in excessive DHEA converting into unwanted estrogen, esteron, & estrodial as oppose to simply aiding in the homeostatic production of DHEA (maybe some surplus), in light of whatever product you are taking that will elevate cortisol.  Cortisol and DHEA have an inverse relationship.  That being said, it also my understanding that "too much" DHEA is in the excess of 100-150mg a day and I'm fairly certain that taking a metaoblite will not cause that kind of a hyper-presence of DHEA, short of supplementing straight DHEA or a direct pre-cursor.  Again, Androst-5-ene-3b, 7b, 17b-triol is not a pre-cursor, but an active ingredient involved in the metabolic process of DHEA.  

Lastly, Adrenosterone (11-sterone) aka 11-sterone, will not increase DHEA at all.  It supresses the process of cortisone converting to cortisol.

I hope this helped and more importantly, I hope this was accurate.  

IMHO, to the entire post.


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## VolcomX311 (Dec 1, 2010)

I noticed I've addressed this question for you before, which is all good, so I did cut & paste some of it from our last conversation, but expanded on it with more detail.  Let me know if I need to clarify anything.  I know there is a lot of mumbo jumbo nonmenclatures in there that make it difficult to process.

I'm no expert on the matter, but I'll do my best to help.


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## cavtrooper96 (Dec 1, 2010)

I would stay away from all CEL products. If you are looking to control cortisol look at any of the following:

Lean Xtreme
Phosphatilderlysine (sp)
Ephedrine
Albuterol

Should be cheaper too!


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## braveand (Dec 1, 2010)

cavtrooper96 said:


> Lean Xtreme


I would stick with this one...


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## VolcomX311 (Dec 1, 2010)

Ephedrine and albuterol being stimulants in nature will elevate cortisol levels .  But I do like Lean Xtreme.


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## Gamer2be08 (Dec 1, 2010)

*Vitamin C blocks cortisol just as much as all those cort blocking over priced products *

Seriously though, take 1 gram in morning and 1 gram post training, plenty of water and BAM, cort takin control!


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## eastwoodmuscle (Dec 1, 2010)

dhea's can convert into androstenedione, and from there, the conversion from either testosterone, or estrogen, and which will dominate, will be determined individually.

no two people will have the same results, anyone to tell you different, is wrong.


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## awhites1 (Dec 2, 2010)

VolcomX311 said:


> I noticed I've addressed this question for you before, which is all good, so I did cut & paste some of it from our last conversation,



haha. yeah something similar to this. now i feel like an ass. but it wasn't the exact same as the last one...

suddenly now that I'm married and dont have money to waste I want to make sure that I get the best supplements before I drop down 30-40 bucks. 

As always appreciate your help man


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## awhites1 (Dec 2, 2010)

PS VolcomX311 I tried to rep you again but since you were the last person I repped it wouldn't let me twice in a row...


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## VolcomX311 (Dec 2, 2010)

awhites1 said:


> haha. yeah something similar to this. now i feel like an ass. but it wasn't the exact same as the last one...
> 
> suddenly now that I'm married and dont have money to waste I want to make sure that I get the best supplements before I drop down 30-40 bucks.
> 
> As always appreciate your help man


 
It's all good and always glad to help. Also, I hear you on trying to be economical.  I've been a lot more careful about which supplements I'm willing to spend a week's worth of groceries on ever since I got married.


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## VolcomX311 (Dec 2, 2010)

Gamer2be08 said:


> *Vitamin C blocks cortisol just as much as all those cort blocking over priced products *
> 
> Seriously though, take 1 gram in morning and 1 gram post training, plenty of water and BAM, cort takin control!


 
Thanks for the reminder, it got me to go back and revisit the Vitamin C and cortisol correlation.  Vitamin C is a goold alternative, though it does not actually block cortisol, but it keeps cortisol production in check via restocking the adrenal cortex with Vitamin C when reacting to normal stressors; physical, mental, emotional.... However, when Dr. Hans Seyle published the first study back in 1936,  the stress tests measured the adrenal cortex's response to stress under daily life stressors (physical, mental, emotional; some other tests on rats), but back in 1936, there weren't bodybuilding supplements that manipulated the endocrine system which would cause excessive stress to the adrenal cortex.

I think Vitamin C would work well for physical stress purposes, like bodybuilding, but I'm uncertain as to how Vitamin C would combat the cortisol elevation brought about by running ECA for instance; something that excessively taxes the adrenal gland.  Or the combination of "hard" dieting combined with excessive cardio and lifting.

Either way, Vitamin C has a lot more accessory benefits that straight cort blockers don't have and as you mentioned, is much more economical.


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## Rodja (Dec 2, 2010)

VolcomX311 said:


> Thanks for the reminder, it got me to go back and revisit the Vitamin C and cortisol correlation.  Vitamin C is a goold alternative, though it does not actually block cortisol, but it keeps cortisol production in check via restocking the adrenal cortex with Vitamin C when reacting to normal stressors; physical, mental, emotional.... However, when Dr. Hans Seyle published the first study back in 1936,  the stress tests measured the adrenal cortex's response to stress under daily life stressors (physical, mental, emotional; some other tests on rats), but back in 1936, there weren't bodybuilding supplements that manipulated the endocrine system which would cause excessive stress to the adrenal cortex.
> 
> I think Vitamin C would work well for physical stress purposes, like bodybuilding, but I'm uncertain as to how Vitamin C would combat the cortisol elevation brought about by running ECA for instance; something that excessively taxes the adrenal gland.  Or the combination of "hard" dieting combined with excessive cardio and lifting.
> 
> Either way, Vitamin C has a lot more accessory benefits that straight cort blockers don't have and as you mentioned, is much more economical.


Don't forget about the very short T 1/2 of Vitamin C.  It's a nice adjunct, but you'd have to take 1g 3-4x/day.  

In all honesty, EndoAmp Max is the only cort blocker I've ever seen noticeable results form using (BTW, I haven't used the new LX).  It's pricey, but worth every penny for not only cort reduction, but also for a GH boost and mental clarity.


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## eastwoodmuscle (Dec 2, 2010)

I like endo amp max & toco 8, but dont care for the sustain alpha.


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## Gamer2be08 (Dec 2, 2010)

eastwoodmuscle said:


> I like endo amp max & toco 8, but dont care for the sustain alpha.



sustain alpha is awesome.. Dont know what you talking about..

And for God sake, Vit C is so damn cheap and all those cort blockers are not needed lol.. Unless you had the HIV


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## VolcomX311 (Dec 7, 2010)

Gamer2be08 said:


> And for God sake, Vit C is so damn cheap and all those cort blockers are not needed lol.. Unless you had the HIV


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## Starchild (Dec 12, 2010)

VolcomX311 said:


>




if u get to raise your own slin ,could cortisol gets to lower? and could your thyroid function get
to work better?


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## VolcomX311 (Dec 13, 2010)

Starchild said:


> if u get to raise your own slin ,could cortisol gets to lower? and could your thyroid function get
> to work better?


 

Insulin and Cortisol don't have an inverse relationship, meaning both hormones can be high at the same time or low at the same time. The elevation of one of these hormones, does not inherently lower the other.

Insulin "issues" and cortisol "issues" are also of a different nature. If you're taking insulin because you have become insulin resistant as a result of elevated coristol levels that have detrimentally effected your thyroids functions; then number one, be careful. The nutrient partitioning supplements we all buy with SLIN somewhere on the bottle is not anywhere near the beast of injectable insulin, both in effiacy and potential sides. Number two, again, the two hormones insulin and cortisol share a relationship with thyroid functions, but the two hormones do not share an inverse relationship.

Here's a brief breakdown. One of cortisol’s more important functions is to act in concert or synergy with thyroid hormone at the receptor-gene level. Cortisol makes thyroid work more efficiently. A physiologic amount of cortisol—not too high and not too low—is very important for normal thyroid function, which is why a lot of people who have an imbalance in adrenal cortisol levels usually have thyroid-like symptoms but normal thyroid hormone levels. So, when cortisol levels are low, caused by adrenal exhaustion, thyroid is less efficient at doing its job of increasing energy and metabolic activity. Every cell in the body has receptors for both cortisol and thyroid and nearly every cellular process requires optimal functioning of thyroid. 

Too much cortisol, again caused by the adrenal glands’ response to excessive stressors, causes the tissues to no longer respond to the thyroid hormone signal. It creates a condition of thyroid resistance, meaning that thyroid hormone levels can be normal, but tissues fail to respond as efficiently to the thyroid signal. This resistance to the thyroid hormone signal caused by high cortisol is not just restricted to thyroid hormone but applies to all other hormones such as insulin, progesterone, estrogens, testosterone, and even cortisol itself. When cortisol gets too high, you start getting resistance from the hormone receptors, and it requires more hormones to create the same effect. That’s why chronic stress, which elevates cortisol levels, makes you feel so rotten—none of the hormones are allowed to work at optimal levels. 

Insulin resistance is a classic example. It takes more insulin to drive glucose into the cells when cortisol is high. High cortisol and high insulin, resulting in insulin resistance, are going to cause you to gain weight around the waist because your body will store fat there rather than burn it.

I'm going to address your question in the other cortisol thread now, but I'll bring this info along with me so the information flows better.


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## Starchild (Dec 14, 2010)

VolcomX311 said:


> Insulin and Cortisol don't have an inverse relationship, meaning both hormones can be high at the same time or low at the same time. The elevation of one of these hormones, does not inherently lower the other.
> 
> Insulin "issues" and cortisol "issues" are also of a different nature. If you're taking insulin because you have become insulin resistant as a result of elevated coristol levels that have detrimentally effected your thyroids functions; then number one, be careful. The nutrient partitioning supplements we all buy with SLIN somewhere on the bottle is not anywhere near the beast of injectable insulin, both in effiacy and potential sides. Number two, again, the two hormones insulin and cortisol share a relationship with thyroid functions, but the two hormones do not share an inverse relationship.
> 
> ...



i don't know what i doneand what is happening into me..but i think to have made a real mess of things.
3 years ago i took gh cycles alone and cytomel cycles alone too. 
now,i have a short of gh deficiency or thyroid deficit.
i don't know. igf-1 has got to lower at 50ng7L ,but they have submitted me under GHRH administratiions..so i feel a bit better and igf-1 is returned within right range. my T3 and T4 are within the range. but cortisol and TSH are over the right range,expecially TSH is 7.
I've tried to run peps ,cjcDAc,ghrp6+a mod.(1-29)GRF...but my TSH and cortisol don't seems to restore. does it depend because i used cythomel with no PCT?    what should be the best PCT? i 've try to run guggulsterons,peps,iodina,forskohlii.
People has told me about I contracted a gh deficiency and thyroid issues too,only because i did used no PCT besides the fact i used gh administrations alone. they told me i needed slin or a slin releaser to avoid gh deficiency.  I've tried all the possible stuff except insulin and TRH.
But TSH is still high,so i don't assume TRH administartions will be ok. 
Mine seems a subclinical hypothyroidism,because only TSH is high...this is because i had a gh deficiency.
So ,i'ld like to try real insulin,or a slin releaser as glipizide (or stuff as LG Sciences Slin too).
Docs of mine don't help me.  i need to heal! help me please ,if u know about slin is the key. Mega thanx (feel u free to send me a PM ,or can reply in all ways u want,ok?)


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## VolcomX311 (Dec 14, 2010)

Starchild said:


> i don't know what i doneand what is happening into me..but i think to have made a real mess of things.
> 3 years ago i took gh cycles alone and cytomel cycles alone too.
> now,i have a short of gh deficiency or thyroid deficit.
> i don't know. igf-1 has got to lower at 50ng7L ,but they have submitted me under GHRH administratiions..so i feel a bit better and igf-1 is returned within right range. my T3 and T4 are within the range. but cortisol and TSH are over the right range,expecially TSH is 7.
> ...



I'd actually stop with all the bodybuilding supplements and see an endocrinologist.  An endo will prescribe a very specific thyroid medication.  I'm surprised you're primary physician hasn't referred you to an endo if he's aware of some kind of thyroid function issue.  However, if your primary has examined you and has not sent you to an endo, you may not be as bad as you think, but I can't really speak on that because I don't know the details.

What product did you run exactly?


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## Starchild (Dec 15, 2010)

VolcomX311 said:


> However, if your primary has examined you and has not sent you to an endo, you may not be as bad as you think, but I can't really speak on that because I don't know the details.


no,no,wait a minut please. I meant endos. I've been for endos yet.
They were to  tell me my hypothiroidism is light and i contracted a light gh deficiency too.,and they submitted under GHRHs administration in order to get to raise my GH.
 The point is: my TSH is always a little bit higher than standard right range.
It's a bit over the range. my cortisol is within the right range,but it's on the higher top end value of the right range.
I assume to have Gh deficiency again.
So,1 week ago i started to use cjc1295DAC. but i continue to feel thyroid issues. I've read hGH (and peps too,i assume) loves 'eat'/destroy your own T3. 


VolcomX311 said:


> What product did you run exactly?


I run Cytomel and Synthroid alone by one month,say, then i waited 2 weeks and so,i started a 20-25 days on Genotropin alone. (no slin or slin releasers,u know...not even after 3 years. I've never used a slin releaser or slin....just only that hGH cycle and those synthetic T3 & T4). 
I remember i got to feel very bad just i got the first shot. However i got other 20-25 shots at the following/next days. when this veri horribile and no-sense cycle was finish,i felt change..i felt to have damage something,some glands into me.  I got use no stuff ,so i got a igf-1 deficiency within in 6-7 months. Endos submitted me under GHRH+arginine test and higher peak of hGh of mine was just  < .4   and igf-1 just only 50 (the minimum value should be at least 114). they submitted under test again...and the result was the same. They submitted me again too..and at that third time my hGh peak was 14  and igf-1 was 130.   So,they told me my gh deficiency went away.
However my TSH continued to be a bit out of the range,even if got to lower
it too. 
My hair continue to look like a mess and fall down and are so thin and harsh, and peps are so cathabolic too. so ,i don't think they are the best in order to get to restore completally my gh deficiency,because i felt it to be again.   So,i thought to ask endos to be put under hGH stimulus test by/through insulin in the place of GHRH.  I think slin is the key.
no-BB get hgh deficiency by hgh use this is why they run slin too,i assume.
So,since slin is a hGh releaser too and since they use it for hGH stimulus test too ,i assume the key is to use slin and convince them to use slin on me under hGh test of stimulus in the place of GHRH.

Again: since i got a hGH deficiency by hGh alone use (and waiting three years befor running a hgh releaser) ,i assume if i(or my endos) use slin on me,could contract an insulin deficency at production of mine own.
This is why i'ld like to try a slin releaser only ,now. Maybe Slin from LG Sciences or a stuff like/as Glipizide too.
Friday I'll go for blood test of tsh,glucose,t4 ,t3,igf-1,cortisol. meanwhile i waiting cc getting to be out of my blood in 2 weeks.  Then,i'll try to use a slin releaser as glipizide or  more light something else stuff

also this: whats stuff as PCT do Harcore BB use after to run synthetic t2,t3,t4 hormones ? what stuff do they use to avoid a negative feedback and recovery their own thyroid hormones productions?  (not tell me raw products or little powerful stuff...it would be like to say u want use just tribulus terrestis after massive cycles ofv AAS LOL) i need 'regenarotors' .
So all what i know is just how restore HPTA  after AAS. but i know nothing about thyroid and pituitary.


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## VolcomX311 (Dec 15, 2010)

Generally speaking, PCT is used to restore the natural production of testosterone and keeping the estrogen surplus environment in check after cycles that cause suppression.  Basic PCT are SERMs (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators), such as Nolva, which bind the surplus of estrogen(s) until the body rejuvinates the proper test to estro balance, whether naturally or assisted with herbal test boosters.  I haven't really heard of running PCT to effect thyroid functions, but I certainly don't know everything.

Insulin mimickers like SLIN from LG, don't really cause you to release insulin per se, but acts upon the naturally released insulin and enhances the nutrient partitioning effect of the naturally released insulin, which causes superior shuttling of (primarily) carbs into the muscles.

I really doubt these OTC Slin mimickers will have any kind of effect on your current situation.  At this point, I'd just listen to your doctors.


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## Starchild (Dec 15, 2010)

VolcomX311 said:


> Generally speaking, PCT is used to restore the natural production of testosterone and keeping the estrogen surplus environment in check after cycles that cause suppression.  Basic PCT are SERMs


  I know SERMs yet. They are used to get to restore your HPTA after Testosterones and anolgs use. 
the point is:
Just only teststerones and analogs can cause a shutdown at your production??
 Esogen administrations of thyroid hormones cannot? I don't believe. 
..and what about hGH administrations alone? 
I don't believe about just only testosterones and analogs administrations can get a shutdown on u.
I think about also too massive thyroid hormones,hGH (expecially if u use no slin or slin releaser) use can get a shutdown at your own production.  ...and when that happens,u cannot hope to get to heal by wait only. 
u need some stuff (I call it PCT) in order to restore yourself.
What about Glipizide please. is it a real slin releaser,isn't it? I want use it,because i'm afraid slin run can cause other deficiency on me. I own hgh and thyroid deficiency and i promise u ,they are more than enough. i don't wanna a slin deficiency too. That is why I'll try to run glipizide.
About thyroid function recovery,Author L.Rea suggest guggulsterones. But i get the feeling raw products cannot get your thyroid function  to restore completally,i assume. I'm on SAN T3..but my tsh remains out of the standard range.  Docs & endos tell me ,it depend of that hgh deficiency and igf-1 too,i had. So,since i'm on peps too ,and they don't get to lower my tsh..that means my gh deficiency doesn't go away. 
That is the reason ,i reach to understand about insulin is the key. 
If that time to have use hgh alone i'ld have used slin too ,so i didn't get a hgh deficiency.
Remember: no-one run hgh alone. I've never heard anyone running hgh alone.   
Also endos use slin in order to stimulate your hgh under test of stimulus.
if that time my endos got to submit me under slin in the place of ghrh ,maybe my hgh deficiency got to go away.

I'll ask them to submit me under insulin for a hgh test of stimulus..otherwise i'll run Glipizide by myself. 
let u free to send me a mail or a PM if u want, or continue on this thread/topic. thanx u so much.

Oh,i'm forgetting this too(how in English?LOL):
time ago they gave me a thyroid therapy through synthetic thyroid hormons in order to get my tsh to lower. Just think! i got to feel worst!
So,it's not matter of thyroid. it's matter i needed slin or glipizide in order to restore from gh deficiency.  I've tried to send Author L.Reaa a message on facebook. he's replied today telling to have no time to reply these questions because he's making his line of supplement and them take up a lot of his time. He suggest me to get his books. I've replied him i own all three Chemoical Muscle Enhancement of yours yet, but no reference about a gh shutdown. His books mentioned just only about guggulsterons could be able to improve a bit your thyroid function ,but it's raw product and don't believe that is the key.
So,i ask him to suggest what supplements of him could get to restore me. Now, i'm waiting his answer. Then i tell u what he suggest me. ok?


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## VolcomX311 (Dec 16, 2010)

Starchild said:


> I know SERMs yet. They are used to get to restore your HPTA after Testosterones and anolgs use.
> the point is:
> Just only teststerones and analogs can cause a shutdown at your production??
> Esogen administrations of thyroid hormones cannot? I don't believe.
> ...



Glizipide is an actual insulin releaser.  Glizipide stimulates the pancrease to release insulin and if your personal research has lead you to believe that an insulin release supp is what you need, then you may be more of an expert on this matter then I am at this point.

However, Glizipide has a warning against use for people with pituitary gland issues and the pituitary gland and thyroid are interlinked, so just be careful.   

At this point again, I'd just follow the instructions of your physicians.


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## oufinny (Dec 16, 2010)

My go to cort control for me is Erase as it works as an AI and cort controller.  I have heard nothing but good things about Lean Extreme so that is an option as well.  VAT attack by US Powders was great for that but it is gone.  Did not know all that about vitamin C.


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## Starchild (Dec 16, 2010)

VolcomX311 said:


> Glizipide is an actual insulin releaser.


don't use insulin releasers BBs who run synthetic slin ,in order to avoid a negative-feedback o a shtdown at the insulin release of theirselves own?   (..or do they use a medicine which get to lower glucose?........what difference is there between a medicine which lower glucose in comparison of/than an insulin releaser??)


VolcomX311 said:


> However, Glizipide has a warning against use for people with pituitary gland issues and the pituitary gland and thyroid are interlinked, so just be careful.


Why should Glipizide has a warning ?? Endocrinologist and diabethologists use insulin administrations when submit u for the test of stimulus of hGH. Insulin is very much more 'heavy' than glipizide i assume.



VolcomX311 said:


> ...the pituitary gland and thyroid are interlinked


if they're interlinked ,so it could explain my high TSH ,obtained after run hgh alone.
Maybe slin administrations would have got to control it and avoid to raise out the range.
 Slin seems to have to behave the opposite of hgh, and BB use always slin once run hgh .
That could explain all my glands issues.
I get teh fereling I've been the only one jinxed to run hgh without slin on the whole planet! LOL  That is why i got that gh shutdown i assume.  slin scares me,this is why i want try glipizide before (in order to get 'to familiarize',u know)


V olcomX311 said:


> At this point again, I'd just follow the instructions of your physicians.


yes,don't worry. I'll ask them to submit me for an insulin test to stimulate hgh of mine.
They will inject me slin (and glucose too)
.......so ,i'll discover/see about if slin was the key ,and about if i needed to add slin ,when i run that hgh cycle alone getting a hgh shutdown/negative feedback on/at mine own release


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## VolcomX311 (Dec 17, 2010)

Best of luck to you.  I hope it all works out.


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## Patrick Arnold (Dec 17, 2010)

cavtrooper96 said:


> I would stay away from all CEL products. If you are looking to control cortisol look at any of the following:
> 
> Lean Xtreme
> Phosphatilderlysine (sp)
> ...


 

11-KT Spray


7 Spray

I may be biased but the 11-spray and 7-spray products are two excellent choices. both will antagonize cortisol very well. the former will also build impressive muscle hardness. The latter is non-suppressive and has excellent immune stimulating properties as well. These are much more potent that other oral adrenosterone (or 11-ketotestosterone) or beta-AET containing products. If you have questions about these go to the prototype nutrition forum on this website

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/prototype-nutrition/


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## Starchild (Dec 18, 2010)

VolcomX311 said:


> Best of luck to you.  I hope it all works out.


thanks. i need luck too.
now i've got a reply from an endocrinologist who live in Spain and he's adfirmed about insulin tolerance test is the gold method to diagnos a possible hgh deficiency. the test by GHRH+arginine is little effective.
This is the answer i needed. The theory about insulin is the key seems to come nearer day in day,counseling in counseling.
i wonder about if they can use a stuff like/as glipizide in the post of insulin  for insulin tolearnce test


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## henryv (Dec 18, 2010)

awhites1 said:


> B-Androstenetriol (transdermal suppress C from CEL) or Adrenosterone (Androst-4-ene-3,11,17-trione) (11 sterone also by CEL)?
> 
> *The positive-*I like the transdermal b/c I dont like taking pills, I can but I just dont like to. Which is more effective?
> 
> *The possible negative-*also a point of concern, I know the androstenetriol has to do with uping DHEA in the body but I heard DHEA has a high affinity for converting to estrogen... is this true?



Transdermal is a better form of delivery for b-AET (beta-androstenetriol). We sell a transdermal 7-Spray that has both b-AET acetate and 7-keto DHEA acetate in. We also sell an 11-Spray that contains 11-ketotestosterone, which is stronger than adrenosterone for both cortisol control and muscle-building effects.

7-keto DHEA and b-AET can't convert to estrogen to my knowledge.



Patrick Arnold said:


> 11-KT Spray
> 
> 
> 7 Spray
> ...



^ This.


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