# Cissus



## Tatyana (Oct 12, 2006)

I have been reading about cissus as a supplement that may aid in the recovery of muscle and tendons.

It has been stated to be anabolic and androgenic (not good for the girlies).

I did search on this, however, no definitive YES or NO.

Opinions please. 

x
x
x

T


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## Tatyana (Oct 13, 2006)

bump


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## bludevil (Oct 13, 2006)

While I've never taken Cissus, from what I've read, it's only anabolic and androgenic at very high levels. USP Labs makes a good Cissus product Cissus-RX and from their forums, they state studies have  been done on women with no ill side-effects. Womens age ranged from 20's - 50's. You may want to visit their site for more info http://www.synergymuscle.com/forums


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## Pirate! (Oct 14, 2006)

It does have ketosterols and saponins, but this isn't something women should worry about, IMO.


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## Tatyana (Oct 17, 2006)

Cissus has a large vitamin component but more importantly the ability to deliver the vitamin to the target tissue.Cissus also stimulates myoblast and osteoblast acitivity. Form my brief studies on Tendons, Osteoblasts and myoblasts stimulate collagen II synthesis. Just because we stimulate collagen II synthesis does not exactly correlate to HEALING of an injury. You can stimulate Collagen II synthesis and GROW NEW tissue. New tissue is great if its directly stimulated where injury occurs. You can stimulate new growth but the growth may be away from the injury. A great example is your brick wall has a whole in it and instead of patching the whole directly you build a NEW wall to over the whole. The structural instability is still present.

Cissus in research has proven to correct structural instability in fractures. The healing process of Fractures includes Tendon and ligament stability.

THE SCIENCE
Cissus quadrangularis is an ancient medicinal plant native to the hotter parts of Ceylon and India. It was prescribed in the ancient Ayurvedic texts as a general tonic and analgesic, with specific bone fracture healing properties. Modern research has shed light on Cissus' ability to speed bone healing by showing it acts as a glucocorticoid antagonist (1,2). Since anabolic/androgenic compounds are well known to act as antagonists to the glucocorticoid receptor as well as promote bone growth and fracture healing, it has been postulated that Cissus possesses anabolic and/or androgenic properties (1,3). In addition to speeding the remodeling process of the healing bone, Cissus also leads to a much faster increase in bone tensile strength. In clinical trials Cissus has led to a fracture healing time on the order of 55 to 33 percent of that of controls. That cissus exerts antiglucocorticoid properties is suggested by a number of studies where bones were weakend by treatment with cortisol, and upon administration of Cissus extract the cortisol induced weakening was halted, and the healing process begun.

While the increased rate of bone healing may be of great significance to persons suffering from chronic diseases like osteoporosis (4), the antiglucocorticoid properties of Cissus are likely of much more interest to the average bodybuilder or athlete, since endogenous glucocorticoids, particularly cortisol, are not only catabolic to bone, but catabolize muscle tissue as well. Numerous studies over the years have suggested that glucorticoids, including the body's endogenous hormone cortisol activate pathways that degrade not only bone, but skeletal muscle tissue as well. A recently published report documented exactly how glucocorticoids (including cortisol) induce muscle breakdown: They activate the so-called ubiquitin-proteasome pathway of proteolysis (5). This pathway of tissue breakdown is important for removing damaged and non-functional proteins. However, when it is overactive during periods of elevated cortisol (e.g disease states, stress, and over-training) excess amounts of normal tissue are broken down as well. By exerting an anabolic, antiglucorticoid effect cissus helps preserve muscle tissue during times of physical and emotional stress.

Although the bulk of the research on Cissus centers around bone healing, the possibility exists that Cissus may act to improve bone healing it may improve the healing rate of connective tissue in general, including tendons. If this is the case it would be of great benefit to bodybuilders and athletes.

Besides the above-mentioned properties of Cissus, the plant is also rich in the vitamins/antioxidants vitamin C and beta-carotene. As analyzed, Cissus quadrangularis contained ascorbic acid 479 mg, and carotene 267 units per 100g of freshly prepared paste in addition to calcium oxalate (6).

The typical recommended daily dosage of Cissus is 3 to 6 gramalso s to accelerate fracture healing. Safety studies in rats showed no toxic effects at dosages as high as 2000 mg/kg of body weight. So not only is Cissus efficacious, it is quite safe, in either the dried powder form or the commercially available extract.

Cissus also possess analgesic properties on a mg per mg basis comparable to aspirin or anti-inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen. Cissus quadrangularis, which has been proved to be highly effective in relieving pain, reduction of swelling and promoting the process of healing of the simple fractures as well as in curing the allied disorders associated with fractures (7). The mechanism through which Cissus exerts its analgesic and anti-inflammatory properties has not been well characterized. It may act centrally, but the anti-inflammatory features suggest that it acts by preventing the conversion of arachidonic acid to inflammatory prostaglandins.
Real World Application for injuries

Simply if your suffering from Joint pain, Ligament pain, cartilage pain, had surgery on bone, ligament or cartilage, Cissus is the supplement to use. It has been my experience that many grapplers take anti-inflammatory medications to fight through the pain. Ultimately, these medications only kill the sensation of pain not the symptom. Cissus has the ability to kill the pain specific to the injury while promoting healing.

Some users will get instant relief and other will need to use Cissus for much longer period of time for complete healing of an injury. Leverage performance science is not claiming that Cissus will work 100% percent of the time that would be a foolish claim. We have estimated that 85% of user experience relief from our product. This number may lower or rise as more consumers send in reports. In the PHARMACUETICAL industry a 50% success rate is good. Since we talking about the Pharmaceutical industry, they have yet to produce a product that helps the healing process. They just develop pain medications that are often addicting.

THE OTHER SIDE EFFECT IS ANABOLIC!
Cissus is anabolic and anti-catabolic!!! Cissus users report a "PUMP" that we call the Cissus pump. The PUMP effect becomes prevalent at approximately 10-15 days of continous Cissus use. The "PUMP" is due to the increase of blood flow to the muscle. The Cissus pump will have you flexing your muscle for no apparent reason. This is when you know the product has exerted its effect.

Cissus is a powerful natural anabolic; if not the most powerful natural anabolic on the market. Why would a grappler need it? An Anabolic and anti-catabolic substance allows for faster recovery from exercise, from injury, increase in muscle strength, and stamina. In short, you will be able to train longer and recover faster without the negative effects of anabolic steroids.

Cissus is also an ideal product to use in conjuntion with cAMPED for dropping weight. Imagine decreasing bodyfat while simultaneously retaining your strength and preserving muscle mass while on a calorie restricted diet! The combined effects of Cissus and cAMPED become a powerful tool for any competive grappler!


WARNING
If using Cissus to heal injury related pain, you may experience instant relief due to its analgesic (pain killing) effect . This does not mean the injury has completely healed! Please continue your training regimen with extra caution until full recovery has been achieved. On the contrary, if using Cissus primarily for its Anabolic properties your training program should be continued with maximum intensity to reap the full benefits of this product.





References
1) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Awadhiya RP. Studies of Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair : a histopathological study Indian J Med Res. 1976 Sep;64(9):1365-8

2) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Gupta LP, Datta IC. Studies on Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair: effect on chemical parameters in blood Indian J Med Res. 1975 Jun;63(6):824-8.

3) PRASAD GC, UDUPA KN. EFFECT OF CISSUS QUADRANGULARIS ON THE HEALING OF CORTISONE TREATED FRACTURES. Indian J Med Res. 1963 Jul;51:667-76.

4) Shirwaikar A, Khan S, Malini S. Antiosteoporotic effect of ethanol extract of Cissus quadrangularis Linn. on ovariectomized rat. J Ethnopharmacol. 2003 Dec;89(2-3):245-50.

5) Combaret L, Taillandier D, Dardevet D, Bechet D, Ralliere C, Claustre A, Grizard J, Attaix D Glucocorticoids regulate mRNA levels for subunits of the 19 S regulatory complex of the 26 S proteasome in fast-twitch skeletal muscles. Biochem J. 2004 Feb 15;378(Pt 1):239-46.

6) Chidambara Murthy KN, Vanitha A, Mahadeva Swamy M, Ravishankar GA. Antioxidant and antimicrobial activity of Cissus quadrangularis L. J Med Food. 2003 Summer;6(2):99-105.

7) Panda, J Res Ayurv Siddha, 1990, 11, 7rences



I just ordered some!

Bring on the healing.

I hope it is not to androgenic!

x
x
x

T


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## The Monkey Man (Oct 17, 2006)

Tatyana said:


> Cissus has a large vitamin component but more importantly the ability to deliver the vitamin to the target tissue.Cissus also stimulates myoblast and osteoblast acitivity. Form my brief studies on Tendons, Osteoblasts and myoblasts stimulate collagen II synthesis. Just because we stimulate collagen II synthesis does not exactly correlate to HEALING of an injury. You can stimulate Collagen II synthesis and GROW NEW tissue. New tissue is great if its directly stimulated where injury occurs. You can stimulate new growth but the growth may be away from the injury. A great example is your brick wall has a whole in it and instead of patching the whole directly you build a NEW wall to over the whole. The structural instability is still present.
> 
> Cissus in research has proven to correct structural instability in fractures. The healing process of Fractures includes Tendon and ligament stability.
> 
> ...



PM me with your opinion/results please -


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## juggernaut (Oct 20, 2006)

I read about this stuff and plan to take it soon. I would like to know if it is better than glucosamine/condroitin, a product that did absolutely zero when I was on it for a six month period.


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## House72 (Oct 22, 2006)

I take Cissus. I  have been taken it for over a year now. I had two surgeries on my left shoulder. Before I started taking Cissus, I had pain in my shoulder well after my surgery, but once i started to take Cissus, the pain dissapated within a months time. I don't know it was the placebo effect or not, but Cissus is now a staple supplement for me, I will not go without. I do mega dose it though, I take 10 pills a day.  I do suggest you give it a try, it won't hurt  to try it and its fairly cheap..


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## House72 (Oct 22, 2006)

I take Cissus. I  have been taken it for over a year now. I had two surgeries on my left shoulder. Before I started taking Cissus, I had pain in my shoulder well after my surgery, but once i started to take Cissus, the pain dissapated within a months time. I don't know it was the placebo effect or not, but Cissus is now a staple supplement for me, I will not go without. I do mega dose it though, I take 10 pills a day.  I do suggest you give it a try, it won't hurt  to try it and its fairly cheap..


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## Tatyana (Oct 22, 2006)

I have my cissus  in powder form from a bulk powder suppliers. It is brown and smells sort of like celery powder and tastes quite bitter and vile.

I think a capping kit is in order. 

x
x
x

T


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## juggernaut (Oct 22, 2006)

hey tatyana, 
I'm not kidding when I ask if there is a possibility it could be used as a salad spice or used in tuna?


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## juggernaut (Oct 22, 2006)

USP Labs sells it as Cissus Rx. Anyone use it?


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## Tatyana (Oct 22, 2006)

juggernaut said:


> hey tatyana,
> I'm not kidding when I ask if there is a possibility it could be used as a salad spice or used in tuna?



I mixed my 2 g dose into the last of my oats and vanilla whey this morning and it was seriously gag worthy! 

It does have that celery smell, but tastes really really bitter.

I have the USP bulk powder, as the tabs would not last that long for the doses I am going to take while healing. 

I am not sure if I can post the link for the bulk powder site or is that a BAD here?

x
x
x

T


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## juggernaut (Oct 22, 2006)

I wont tell if you dont tell....Actually I dont know. Is it Bulk Nutrition? PM me if you choose.


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## BigDyl (Oct 22, 2006)

I have used it on and off for a while.  Actually I've tried almost every supplement on the market..


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## juggernaut (Oct 22, 2006)

BigDyl said:


> I have used it on and off for a while.  Actually I've tried almost every supplement on the market..


sounds expensive. How many in a percentage worked?


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## House72 (Oct 22, 2006)

juggernaut said:


> USP Labs sells it as Cissus Rx. Anyone use it?



Thats what I use. Love the stuff.


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## dsade (Oct 23, 2006)

I have a preliminary design on a very potent delivery method for a strong extract. I am awaiting confirmation from my engineers that it will work.

It should yield a minimum 20% cissus, but probably higher.


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## juggernaut (Oct 23, 2006)

dsade said:


> I have a preliminary design on a very potent delivery method for a strong extract. I am awaiting confirmation from my engineers that it will work.
> 
> It should yield a minimum 20% cissus, but probably higher.


who are your "engineers"? You blowing smoke up our asses?


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## dsade (Oct 23, 2006)

Yeah, that is exactly what I am doing. It's the "New Anal Vaporization Delivery".

My engineers and the chemical engineers that work on extraction techniques at the factory that does a majority of my raw materials.

Oh...were you being cleverly patronizing without even knowing me?


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## tucker01 (Oct 23, 2006)

dsade works with nutraplanet and sources a shit load of raw materials that are used in many supps.

I think he did some work with Mike and Bulknutrition and with Avant labs as well.


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## juggernaut (Oct 23, 2006)

dsade said:


> Yeah, that is exactly what I am doing. It's the "New Anal Vaporization Delivery".
> 
> My engineers and the chemical engineers that work on extraction techniques at the factory that does a majority of my raw materials.
> 
> Oh...were you being cleverly patronizing without even knowing me?


me nooooooooooooooooo....wink wink kidding


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## ZECH (Oct 23, 2006)

Tatyana said:


> I am not sure if I can post the link for the bulk powder site or is that a BAD here?
> 
> x
> x
> ...



You may............


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## dsade (Oct 23, 2006)

WOO HOO...

How about:  http://www.nutraplanet.com

I think I can also cut some costs for raw materials for the IM brand, and hopefully they can pass on the savings.


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## dsade (Oct 23, 2006)

juggernaut said:


> me nooooooooooooooooo....wink wink kidding



It's all good...I am just glad to   see Cissus garnering some interest. This is such a great compound that helps a LOT of people with injuries and diseases to live more comfortably...

plus i am excited over the things I found at Supply Side this last weekend.


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## juggernaut (Oct 23, 2006)

dsade said:


> It's all good...I am just glad to   see Cissus garnering some interest. This is such a great compound that helps a LOT of people with injuries and diseases to live more comfortably...
> 
> plus i am excited over the things I found at Supply Side this last weekend.


I'm getting over a knee problem. Exactly how does it heal the problem area or does it make it stronger or rebuild "bad" tissue? I'm kind of confused, which isnt hard for me.


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## dsade (Oct 23, 2006)

It is an anabolic compound (6-ketosterols) that seem to LOVE bone and joint tissue, speeding healing.


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## juggernaut (Oct 24, 2006)

Sterols...sounds like steROIDS...oh shit the government will ban it soon...damn!


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## dsade (Oct 24, 2006)

LOL...yeah, watch out for that Cissus Rage


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## jamesperterson (Mar 13, 2009)

Great Forum Ypu have solve my big problem


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## Curt James (May 16, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> I read about this stuff and plan to take it soon. I would like to know if it is better than *glucosamine/condroitin, a product that did absolutely zero when I was on it for a six month period.*



God damn it. I just purchased two bottles (buy one/get one 50% off at the local grocer).


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## huge_quads (May 16, 2011)

I actually did a review on a cissus product today. Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36jtU-df9TA


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## Curt James (May 16, 2011)

huge_quads said:


> I actually did a review on a cissus product today. Check it out:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My left elbow is trashed. I'll be looking for this product tomorrow.

"Liked" RR on Facebook and subbed to your YouTube channel.


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## huge_quads (May 17, 2011)

Curt James said:


> My left elbow is trashed. I'll be looking for this product tomorrow.
> 
> "Liked" RR on Facebook and subbed to your YouTube channel.



This has made my day / night! Thank you!


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## jmccracken16 (May 19, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> USP Labs sells it as Cissus Rx. Anyone use it?



I had surgery about 7 weeks ago on my knee and got sick of the prescription stuff the doctors gave me during the recovery....glucosamine/msm supplements had never done much for me in the past, so I figured supercissus would be worth a shot.  I've been really happy with the results, can definitely tell the gain of strength in my tendons, and it's allowed me to get back in the gym and back to my workouts.


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## huge_quads (May 22, 2011)

wow that is some awesome feedback on cissus.


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## Daft205 (May 25, 2011)

I'm a big fan of cissus. It's worked well for me as well as my parents. I like to use forged joint repair, which has cissus, turmeric, msm, boswellia, and some other goodies in conduction with supercissus- seems to really do the trick when my joints are bothering me.


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## Chubby (May 26, 2011)

During the clinical trial they use these products in massive doses  to see the results.  So I think you should do the same to see the result.  The lebel on the bottle is lot less than what they use on clinical trial.  This is what I noticed about most of the products out there.


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## huge_quads (May 27, 2011)

jannet said:


> I would like to understand if it is better than glucosamine/condroitin, a merchandise that did wholeheartedly none when I was on it for a six month period.



Cissus is waaaaaaaaaay better than glucosamine / chondroitin


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## |Z| (Jun 1, 2011)

chobby192 said:


> During the clinical trial they use these products in massive doses  to see the results.  So I think you should do the same to see the result.  The lebel on the bottle is lot less than what they use on clinical trial.  This is what I noticed about most of the products out there.



Which trial are you referring to and have you taken into account the fact that the human equivalent dosage is not the same g/kg as in animal subjects?

|Z|

Orbit Nutrition Rep


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