# Puerto Rico's State Referendum



## Gregzs (Nov 7, 2012)

I have yet to look it up: When was the last time the U.S. flag had an alteration? It never occurred to me that I would live long enough to see another star added.


Puerto Rico votes on US ties and chooses governor | World News | Comcast

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico ? Puerto Ricans faced a fundamental question on Election Day: Should they change their ties with the United States?

Citizens in the U.S. island territory cannot vote in the U.S. presidential election, but many were excited to participate in a referendum on whether to push the territory toward statehood, greater autonomy or independence.

Car horns blared and party flags waved after polling stations closed following what election officials said was a high voter turnout. During the day, many voters carried umbrellas against the blistering tropical sun as temperatures neared 90 degrees Fahrenheit (31 degrees Celsius).

The two-part referendum first asked voters if they wanted to change Puerto Rico's 114-year relationship with the United States. A second question gave voters three alternatives if they wanted a change: become a U.S. state, gain independence, or have a "sovereign free association," a designation that would give more autonomy for the territory of 4 million people.

With 243 of 1,643 precincts reporting late Tuesday, 75,188 voters, or 53 percent, said they did not want to continue under the current political status. Forty-seven percent, or 67,304 voters, supported the status quo.
On the second question, 65 percent favored statehood, followed by 31 percent for sovereign free association and 4 percent for independence.

"Puerto Rico has to be a state. There is no other option," said 25-year-old Jerome Lefebre, who picked up his grandfather before driving to the polls. "We're doing OK, but we could do better. We would receive more benefits, a lot more financial help."

But 42-year-old Ramon Lopez de Azua said he favored the current system, which grants U.S. citizenship but prevents Puerto Ricans from voting for president unless they live in the United States, and gives those on the island only limited representation in Congress.

"Puerto Rico's problem is not its political status," he said. "I think that the United States is the best country in the world, but I am Puerto Rican first."

Both President Barack Obama and rival Mitt Romney said they supported the referendum, with Obama pledging to respect the will of the people if there was a clear majority. Any change would require approval by the U.S. Congress.
Puerto Rico held non-binding referendums in 1967, 1993 and 1998, with statehood never garnering a clear majority and independence never obtaining more than 5 percent of the vote.

The island also was electing legislators and a governor, with Gov. Luis Fortuno of the pro-statehood New Progressive Party seeking a second term. Fortuno, a Republican, was challenged by Alejandro Garcia Padilla, whose Popular Democratic Party favors the status quo. With 817 of 1,643 precincts reporting late Tuesday, Garcia had 427,604 votes, or 48 percent, while Fortuno had 422,506 votes, or 47 percent.


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## cshea2 (Nov 8, 2012)

RodneyL said:


> Man, that is a dumb ass statement.



Not really, so much cocaine flows through PR to the US.


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## DOMS (Nov 8, 2012)

Did some research:

GDP: $93.5 billion (USD)
Debt: $72 billion (76% of their GDP)
Unemployment: 16%
Exports: chemicals, electronics, apparel, canned tuna, rum, beverage concentrates, medical equipment

Their growth has been downward for the last 4 years. They have no real military to speak of (the US handles it). It's estimated that 45% of their population lives below the poverty line.

Short version: they bring nothing to the table. Not only should we deny their petition to be a state, we should drop them as a territory.


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## dogsoldier (Nov 8, 2012)

Oh, so we can have another state like Hawaii that hates the rest of the union. The native Hawaiians like the tourist money, and the goodies from Uncle Sugar Sam but they hate the rest of the union. They have an attitude that they are an occupied colony.  We pick up Puerto Rico as a state, the result will be the same.  Another failed welfare state, where they will only be on the take.


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## cshea2 (Nov 8, 2012)

^^Whatever you say wealthy Bronx native, I'll go to the Cayman Islands or British Virgin Islands over PR any day. They steal everything in sight.


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## Ichigo (Nov 8, 2012)

i am wealthy but not finacially, i live The Bronx the poorest borough in NYC and im proud of it dammit!


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## cshea2 (Nov 8, 2012)

word, I have family in Astoria. I'm from Boston, but I love NYC.


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## Big Smoothy (Nov 8, 2012)

The plebiscite is non-binding.

Average household income (I just wikied) is $18,000 per year.  Poorest state in the Union, Mississipi has a household income of $30K or a little more.

How much would this cost?

What's the point.  There are more Puerto Ricans in the NYC than in Puerto Rico itself.

Statehood will never happen, anyway.


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## Big Smoothy (Nov 8, 2012)

Paranoid Fitness said:


> *Why not?
> They already qualify for and collect welfare.*



Puerto Ricans residing in the USA?

But not in actual Puerto Rico, correct?

The whole concept PR being linked with the US is foolish.  

They ought to be an independent country.


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## cshea2 (Nov 8, 2012)

RodneyL said:


> IF that's true, what does it have to do with big pimpin's statement about "the coloreds vacationing in droves"??????



It doesn't really, but PR is a very corrupt place and it's a hot spot for drug activity because it's much easier to transport drugs from Puerto Rico to the US than any where else. It's a protectorate of the US, so you don't need to go through customs to enter the US.

I think it would be cool if a baseball team moved down to San Juan, they love baseball down there and would help stimulate their local economy. They experimented with the Expos a few years back. My buddy in Real Estate wanted to get a deal to build a stadium, but it just wasn't realistic.


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## LAM (Nov 9, 2012)

RodneyL said:


> Man, that is a dumb ass statement.



those are the only statements he makes.  if he spent any amount of time flying he would know how little you see blacks.


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## Paranoid Fitness (Nov 9, 2012)

Paranoid Fitness said:


> *Why not?
> They already qualify for and collect welfare.*





Big Smoothy said:


> Puerto Ricans residing in the USA?
> 
> But not in actual Puerto Rico, correct?
> 
> ...



*                                         Electronic Benefits Transfer (EBT)*

*Electronic Benefits Transfer (EBT) is an electronic system that allows          a recipient to authorize transfer of their government benefits from a          Federal account to a retailer account to pay for products received. EBT          is used in all 50 States, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the          Virgin Islands, and Guam. EBT has been implemented in all States since June of 2004.*



Maybe this will enlighten:

Puerto Ricans granted U.S. citizenship, March 2, 1917 - Andrew Glass - POLITICO.com

Electronic Benefit Transfer (EBT)


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## Gregzs (Nov 9, 2012)

It is considered a long shot still. However the population would carry voting power:

Puerto Rico’s bid for statehood seems like a long shot | Constitution Daily

Lost in Tuesday?s election night chaos was a decision in Puerto Rico to seek statehood in a nonbinding referendum. But the odds seem stacked against that happening.






Puerto Rico becoming the 51st state would be a big constitutional development, which we profiled back in August. It?s far from a done deal, but few people outside of the early part of the Baby Boom generation have experienced the political drama in the statehood process.

That?s because aside from the tenuous decision in Puerto Rico to investigate statehood, the reality is that a second state would need to be in the mix to get Congress bite. And the logistics of congressional compromise seem truly daunting.

Puerto Rico also would bring more potential Democratic votes into the Electoral College and Congress. The House of Representatives, which is controlled by the Republicans, would need to approve such a move.
However, even predicting how Puerto Rico?s electoral and congressional votes would go is a difficult process, at best.

Puerto Rico has the highest voter turnout of any state or territory: voting is a rite of passage on the island. And political polls there are notoriously tricky because the electorate is so volatile.
There are three major political parties in Puerto Rico, none of which align directly with the Democrats and Republicans?they are aligned to statehood, independence, and territory factions.

In Tuesday?s two-part referendum, nearly 54 percent of voters agreed to change Puerto Rico?s status as a territory, and statehood was preferred by 61 percent of voters if Puerto Rico chose to change its territorial status. Independence was only favored by 5 percent of the voters.

The next step would probably be for Congress to agree to a joint resolution with the details of Puerto Rico?s statehood requirements. In 1959, it was called the Admissions Act.
If Congress were to pass the act, it would go back to Puerto Rico for a binding vote to accept it.

However, a look at a 2010 fact sheet from the office of Doc Hastings, the Republican chairman of the House?s Natural Resources Committee, shows the steep barriers Puerto Rican statehood faces in Congress.

Hastings projects that Puerto Rico would add at least $7 billion annually to the federal budget as social programs were extended to the new state, and that House Republicans may ask Puerto Rico to adopt English as its official language.
And because of its population of 3.7 million people, Puerto Rico would be entitled to eight electoral votes, including six seats in the House of Representatives.

Unless Congress agrees to add the six seats, they would need to be taken from other states. Hastings says the votes would come from a pool of six states, four of which are controlled by the Republicans.

It took Alaska 13 years to become a state, with the approval of Congress, after it passed its referendum in the wake of World War II. That came only after Hawaii, which was seen as a GOP-leaning state, was added to the bargain.

But in 2012, there doesn?t seem to be a potential Hawaii to add to the mix, or a way to create a new state from an existing one.

In Article IV, Section 3, Congress is given the power to decide what states and territories are, but state legislatures would have to approve any act that would combine two existing states or form a new state from parts of other states.
A long-shot compromise could come in the form of the 23rd Amendment, which was passed in 1961. That gave the District of Columbia three electoral votes, but no voting representation in Congress.

Would Puerto Rico get three votes in such an amendment, or at least eight electoral votes?

Adding a new constitutional amendment is even more difficult than adding a new state, so that seems unlikely.

A more likely option would be for the Democrats to agree to surrender four House seats through redistricting in New York and Washington, assuming they believe Puerto Rico?s two senators would be Democrats. That would be another tough sell in Congress.

_Scott Bomboy is the editor-in-chief of the National Constitution Center._


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## Curt James (Nov 9, 2012)

DOMS said:


> Did some research:
> 
> *GDP: $93.5 billion (USD)
> Debt: $72 billion (76% of their GDP)
> ...



Pull up that same info for the United States. We going to drop our own country, too?


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## Curt James (Nov 9, 2012)

*Puerto Ricans favor statehood for first time
*
By Mariano Castillo, CNN
November 8, 2012






(File photo) Puerto Ricans voted in favor of statehood, marking the first time such an initiative garnered a majority.

*(CNN)* -- In an overshadowed Election Day contest, Puerto Ricans voted in favor of statehood in a nonbinding referendum, marking the first time such an initiative garnered a majority.

Puerto Ricans were asked about their desires in two parts. First, by a 54% to 46% margin, voters rejected their current status as a U.S. commonwealth. In a separate question, 61% chose statehood as the alternative, compared with 33% for the semi-autonomous "sovereign free association" and 6% for outright independence.

While the results may be an indicator of what Puerto Ricans want, statehood will not be possible without congressional action in Washington, something that is not guaranteed.

An economic downturn and shrinking population were the factors that contributed to the support for statehood, where referendums in 1967, 1993 and 1998 failed, Puerto Rico Secretary of State Kenneth McClintock said.
ispanic Heritage Month - Puerto Rico
"I think people just came to realize that the current relationship simply does not create the number of jobs that we need," he said.

An exodus of residents from the island has culminated in a staggering statistic: Fifty-eight percent of Puerto Ricans live in the mainland United States, McClintock said.

"When you have a political status that scares away half of your population, it is time to reject that political status," he said.

But some analysts say the views on statehood have not changed, despite Tuesday's results.

The preference of many voters is to consider a report by the Obama administration that lays out several noncolonial options before choosing an alternative status, said Jorge Benitez, a political scientist at the University of Puerto Rico-Rio Piedras. This option, which is supported by the party that won the governorship, did not appear on the ballot.

"This isn't to say that support for statehood hasn't increased; it has," Benitez said. "But the only thing we can decipher with certainty from the vote is that the people of Puerto Rico want a change to the current status.

"It isn't clear what change we want, but we want change," he said.

The results of the referendum met with other criticisms, too.

There were voters who prefer the current status but didn't agree with the way it was defined on the ballot, thereby inflating the number of votes against the status quo, said Luis Agrait, a history professor at the University of Puerto Rico.

Secondly, a large number of ballots -- one-third of all votes cast -- were left blank on the question of preferred alternative status. If you assume those blank votes are anti-statehood votes, the true result for the statehood option would be less than 50%, Agrait argues.

But McClintock accounts for the number of blank votes by explaining that those who voted to keep the current status would have left the question of alternatives blank.

The referendum is nonbinding, but it compels lawmakers in Washington to act, he said.

"The people are withdrawing their consent to be governed the way they are governed," McClintock said, citing the Declaration of Independence, which states that a government's power comes from the consent of those governed.

"Congress will have to address this and will have to pay attention," he said.

The roughly 4 million residents of Puerto Rico are American citizens but can't vote for president. 

However, the almost 5 million Puerto Ricans living in the 50 U.S. states have full voting rights.

Under its status as a commonwealth, Puerto Rico is subject to U.S. federal laws, though island residents are exempt from some federal taxes. Puerto Rico has a nonvoting representative in Congress.

The territory played a role in presidential politics this year during the GOP primaries, when candidates Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum visited the island, seeking its delegates for the primary election.

Santorum, a former Pennsylvania senator, created a small political firestorm when he said English should be the principal language in Puerto Rico before it could gain statehood.

Romney said he would have "no preconditions" on language for Puerto Rico to gain statehood, though during a CNN debate, he said English should be the United States' official language.

Last year, President Barack Obama made an official visit to Puerto Rico, the first such visit by a president in 50 years.

From *Puerto Ricans favor statehood for first time - CNN.com*


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## LAM (Nov 9, 2012)

there are several territories that the US has been responsible for almost the past 100 years and PR and the Philippines are probably the two oldest.  the Filipino's however did not get the added benefit of automatically being a US citizen they still have to go through the standard immigration process, even the veterans that serve in the US military.


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## Paranoid Fitness (Nov 10, 2012)

LAM said:


> there are several territories that the US has been responsible for almost the past 100 years and PR and the Philippines are probably the two oldest.  the Filipino's however did not get the added benefit of automatically being a US citizen they still have to go through the standard immigration process, even the veterans that serve in the US military.



PR, Guam and the US Virgin Islands are the three protectorates whose residents have inherent US citizenship.

The Philippines has not been a protectorate of the US since July 4, 1946.

See Wiki:
Philippines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## LAM (Nov 10, 2012)

Paranoid Fitness said:


> PR, Guam and the US Virgin Islands are the three protectorates whose residents have inherent US citizenship.
> 
> The Philippines has not been a protectorate of the US since July 4, 1946.
> 
> ...



that just means they are not protected by the US military and that is from xenophobia.  and it's the same reason why Filipino's or Korean's that serve in the US military can not get security clearances.  when I was in the Navy every Filipino you saw or ran into was a cook (MS).


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## maniclion (Nov 11, 2012)

Paranoid Fitness said:


> PR, Guam and the US Virgin Islands are the three protectorates whose residents have inherent US citizenship.
> 
> The Philippines has not been a protectorate of the US since July 4, 1946.
> 
> ...



But we still allow up to 400 Filipino's to enlist in the Navy each year...


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## LAM (Nov 11, 2012)

maniclion said:


> But we still allow up to 400 Filipino's to enlist in the Navy each year...



65,000 foreign nationals in the US military right now.  from the Philippines, Korea, Mexico, Latin America, Jamaica, Dominican Republic , Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Kuwait, Bangladesh and Afghanistan.


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