# Straps are for wusses



## Luke95 (Mar 7, 2007)

Seriously.  If you can't hold onto the weight, you've got no damn business picking it up.  Quit standind in front of the mirror adjusting your straps before you  pretend to work out.

Idiots.


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## JerseyDevil (Mar 7, 2007)

I never use straps... except when doing heavy barbell rows. No way the wrists are strong enough to keep up with the rest of the chain. 

I don't stand in front of a mirror, and I am not an idiot (although my wife will say I am sometimes ).

Damn Luke, you have developed a major attitude.


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## Luke95 (Mar 7, 2007)

JerseyDevil said:


> Damn Luke, you have developed a major attitude.



I"m an asshole.  Im tired of people.

To be honest though.  It's probably more of a 'university gym' sort of thing.  I didn't see it as much as satelite powerhouses and gold's ect.

But the idiots at my school's gym, are mind blowing.  The walk about with their straps dangling like it's some sign of 'strength' when in fact it's the EXACT opposite.

I saw one guy who had his cell phone strapped to his hand, no joke.


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## kinkery (Mar 7, 2007)

I'm good  .


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## fufu (Mar 7, 2007)

I think straps have there place. I think it is a very small place, but there is one. Say you are doing heavy RDL's with a tempo. Holding onto 315+ lbs for 30-45 seconds for several sets is tough. Why let your back/leg workout suffer because of your grip?

I've never done that...but just giving an example. I don't use straps because I choose not to and I tried them once and it made it harder to hold onto the weight.


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## Luke95 (Mar 7, 2007)

On a lighter side....


SO hard to watch without laughing your butt off......


http://youtube.com/watch?v=qlI-N1b-ZK8&mode=related&search=

And I hate ROnnie.


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## JOHNYORK (Mar 7, 2007)

Lol


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## Jodi (Mar 7, 2007)

fufu said:


> I think straps have there place. I think it is a very small place, but there is one. Say you are doing heavy RDL's with a tempo. Holding onto 315+ lbs for 30-45 seconds for several sets is tough. Why let your back/leg workout suffer because of your grip?
> 
> I've never done that...but just giving an example. I don't use straps because I choose not to and I tried them once and it made it harder to hold onto the weight.


I completely agree.  I use straps because my bad is stronger than my grip and being a women, I really don't want big forearms.  Not to mention that the plate in my right arm makes it difficult to do RDL and such without support.


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## NordicNacho (Mar 7, 2007)

plus your a girl


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## JerseyDevil (Mar 8, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> But the idiots at my school's gym, are mind blowing. The walk about with their straps dangling like it's some sign of 'strength' when in fact it's the EXACT opposite.
> 
> I saw one guy who had his cell phone strapped to his hand, no joke.


   You probably have a lot of guys walking around with IWLS (Imaginary Wide Lat Syndrome) also.


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## Luke95 (Mar 8, 2007)

JerseyDevil said:


> You probably have a lot of guys walking around with IWLS (Imaginary Wide Lat Syndrome) also.



Air lats... left and right.


Actually.  they are real.  Synthol must've been big in detroit.  THese guys have HUGE arms (full of oil) and just sit at the bench with a bunch of plates and each side.  

I've never seen them lift anything.


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## MCx2 (Mar 8, 2007)

fufu said:


> I think straps have there place. I think it is a very small place, but there is one. Say you are doing heavy RDL's with a tempo. Holding onto 315+ lbs for 30-45 seconds for several sets is tough. Why let your back/leg workout suffer because of your grip?
> 
> I've never done that...but just giving an example. I don't use straps because I choose not to and I tried them once and it made it harder to hold onto the weight.



I agree 100%. I am in a phase right now where I am training strictly for size, so when I do RDL's, I use straps. When I am training for a max dead, I don't. Makes no sense to use straps when you are training for numbers.


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## Gazhole (Mar 8, 2007)

Are strap-ons for wusses?


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## Luke95 (Mar 8, 2007)

Gazhole said:


> Are strap-ons for wusses?



Strap ons are for pusses.


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## Gazhole (Mar 8, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> Strap ons are for pusses.





But yes.

Both have their place.


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## Arnold (Mar 8, 2007)

Straps have their uses, when I was able to lift heavier I had to use them for working back about half way through because my grip would start to fail.


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## Luke95 (Mar 8, 2007)

Prince said:


> Straps have their uses, when I was able to lift heavier I had to use them for working back about half way through because my grip would start to fail.



On what movements?


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## Arnold (Mar 8, 2007)

pull downs and rows.


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## Luke95 (Mar 8, 2007)

Prince said:


> pull downs and rows.



I don't understand how anybody could ever need straps for rows.... ESPECIALLY DB rows.  I DB row a 125 and then perpendicularlly stack a DB on that.  If anything, some tape would be more useful.

Pull downs I can kind've see.

For the record, I was initially referring to the guys using straps to curl with.


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## Arnold (Mar 8, 2007)

it really was not one exercise over the other, it depended on my work-out, sometimes I would start with rows, other times with pull-downs, either way on a heavy back day my forearms would get fried about half way through it, sometimes so pumped and fatigued I could barely maintain a grip.


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## Luke95 (Mar 8, 2007)

Prince said:


> sometimes so pumped and fatigued I could barely maintain a grip.



See.... That only happens to me if I straight bar curl for 7 days continuously.   

Maybe I wack it too much.


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## largepkg (Mar 8, 2007)

Yep, I use them for DL's of 365+ for reps. I rep 365 for 6-10 reps and my grip will fail before this so... but that's it.


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## Arnold (Mar 8, 2007)

well, I have no problems now...due to my back injury I lift like a pussy.


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## Seanp156 (Mar 8, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> I don't understand how anybody could ever need straps for rows.... ESPECIALLY DB rows.  I DB row a 125 and then perpendicularlly stack a DB on that.  If anything, some tape would be more useful.
> 
> Pull downs I can kind've see.
> 
> For the record, I was initially referring to the guys using straps to curl with.



I could understand using straps on DB rows more than I could pulldowns, but I've never used them for either.

I've messed around with straps a few times on pullups and rows, they were ok, but I'd rather just use chalk.

Barbell shrugs are the main exercise I could see for justifying strap use... My double overhand grip sucks.


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## Luke95 (Mar 8, 2007)

largepkg said:


> Yep, I use them for DL's of 365+ for reps. I rep 365 for 6-10 reps and my grip will fail before this so... but that's it.



Great, You've identified the *weakness*.  Now how about fixing it instead of using a bandaid.



Seanp156 said:


> Barbell shrugs are the main exercise I could see for justifying strap use... My double overhand grip sucks.



Double overhand is rough for me after 275.


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## Mudge (Mar 8, 2007)

We live in an age where people use their hands so much they sometimes have to use various "pussy devices" to help save them from further damage due to RMI or carpel tunnel.

I used to think the same thing, but now I can say proudly, I'm a pussy and I love straps for CERTAIN lifts. I do not use them all the time.


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## largepkg (Mar 8, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> Great, You've identified the *weakness*.  Now how about fixing it instead of using a bandaid.
> 
> 
> 
> Double overhand is rough for me after 275.




Just remember this is your perceived weakness not mine. I use straps for nothing else but that's because my grip doesn't fail so...

Holding 500+ on a DL without straps isn't a problem so I think I'm doing fine. Let me know when you get there and we can talk. 

Your cockieness will get you only so far.


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## Luke95 (Mar 8, 2007)

largepkg said:


> I use straps for nothing else but that's because my grip doesn't fail so...



Are you retarded or something?  What else would we be talking about strap for....



largepkg said:


> Just remember this is your perceived weakness not mine. I use straps for nothing else but that's because my grip doesn't fail so...
> 
> Holding 500+ on a DL without straps isn't a problem so I think I'm doing fine. Let me know when you get there and we can talk.
> 
> Your cockieness will get you only so far.



365 x 6....

I'm there.  Without straps.  Let's talk.


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## largepkg (Mar 8, 2007)

To be young and cocky. I was there once, now I guess I'm a pussy.  


At least I don't hold my cell with a strap.


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## Luke95 (Mar 8, 2007)

largepkg said:


> To be young and cocky. I was there once, now I guess I'm a pussy.
> 
> 
> At least I don't hold my cell with a strap.



My cockiness is really just misplaced anger.  I hate the way these boards make me feel.  

I'm sure you're a good guy.  Take care.


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## largepkg (Mar 8, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> My cockiness is really just misplaced anger.  I hate the way these boards make me feel.
> 
> I'm sure you're a good guy.  Take care.




Been there brother!   Actually, I'm there right now considering I'm getting married in 10 days. It only gets worse so do your best.


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## Luke95 (Mar 8, 2007)

largepkg said:


> Been there brother!   Actually, I'm there right now considering I'm getting married in 10 days. It only gets worse so do your best.



lmao!  Good luck and Congrats to you


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## Arnold (Mar 9, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> I hate the way these boards make me feel.



then why come here?


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## AKIRA (Mar 9, 2007)

Yeah no shit and why is this in the Bodybuilding Gossip branch?


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## AKIRA (Mar 9, 2007)

ReproMan said:


> I agree 100%. I am in a phase right now where I am training strictly for size, so when I do RDL's, I use straps. *When I am training for a max dead, I don't.* Makes no sense to use straps when you are training for numbers.



Really?  Thats when I would use them.

But in essence, I dont see why the confusion.  Straps have a purpose and it has been tested, tried, and true.  I dont see why someone should never use straps, even if their hamstrings and back have more strength potential in a deadlift, lets say.

Ive done DIRECT forearm work and MAJOR grip strength to get my grip back up.  And it actually takes longer to improve than it does my deadlifts or weighted pullups.  Sorry, call me a pussy, but I dont want other workouts to suffer cuz of my grip.  Not only does my grip wear out and possible let go, but I dont have the mind-body connection going on either when I worry about my grip.

Now, there are some people that use their straps for everything.  I used to!  I certainly do not anymore and I never knew why I did.  Its like these assholes that always wear belts.  A belt for a bench press or a spider row?  What the fuck?  In fact, Mr Florida is one of these jerks.  Using a belt for a smith machine incline press.  I just dont get it.

I use straps for weighted pullups, deads, and some rows.  In my journal, I will always list when I use them and when I dont.


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## MCx2 (Mar 9, 2007)

AKIRA said:


> Really?  Thats when I would use them.



If I was training for a max dead why would I use straps considering you can't use straps in competition? Makes no sense training your max dead and not training your grip at the same time.


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## Arnold (Mar 9, 2007)

moved thread to Training forum.


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## largepkg (Mar 9, 2007)

ReproMan said:


> If I was training for a max dead why would I use straps considering you can't use straps in competition? Makes no sense training your max dead and not training your grip at the same time.



Very true. 

Also, the only reason I use straps is because my grip fails over a period of time. For a 1RM I'm OK.


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## AKIRA (Mar 9, 2007)

ReproMan said:


> If I was training for a max dead why would I use straps considering you can't use straps in *competition*? Makes no sense training your max dead and not training your grip at the same time.



When are you competing?


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## MCx2 (Mar 9, 2007)

AKIRA said:


> When are you competing?



I'm not, and I don't train for max deadlift. That's why I use straps. However, if I was training for a max dead, don't you think I'd be cheating the numbers a bit by using straps?


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## AKIRA (Mar 9, 2007)

Simply put, no.

If you can deadlift 500lbs with straps.  Then I come along and try the same weight and use straps, but cant get it.  I cant say youre max is more than mine?

Belts can be classified the same way.  I believe in competitions they allow belts, yet thats not cheating.  In fact, I remember lifting more weight with my belt.  I dont go for 1RM on squats anymore either (and its not cuase I cant).

A bench shirt is like straps too.  Put it in the same situation, if you push more weight than I can, both wearing shirts, youre max is more than mine.  

However, a bench shirt does a lot more than straps and is less common.  The forearms are tiny compared to all the muscles the bench shirt aids.  It would seem logical that a bench shirt can and cant be compared to straps.

If anything, for 1RM, I would list 1 max with straps, 1 max without straps.


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## MCx2 (Mar 9, 2007)

AKIRA said:


> Simply put, no.
> 
> * If you can deadlift 500lbs with straps.  Then I come along and try the same weight and use straps, but cant get it.  I cant say youre max is more than mine?*
> 
> ...



Basically you contradicted your first statement with your second. The bolded statement is the point I was making in the first place, you can't.

Bench Shirts and Belts are absolutely nothing like straps. Bench Shirts and belts can be used in competitions and straps can't. Straps are just a tool to assist in training, while the other 2 are gear that are part of the sport...

I can deadlift close to 500 lbs with straps and I'm just a cunt hair over 400 with straps. Why would I continue to train with straps when that is obviously holding me back?  

I'm not comparing 2 athletes, I'm comparing 1 athlete's 2 lifts. I can pull more with straps than without, I think a majority of people can, that why you use them in the first place....


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## DOMS (Mar 9, 2007)

I only use straps for RDLs and Shrugs.


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## AKIRA (Mar 9, 2007)

ReproMan said:


> Basically you contradicted your first statement with your second. The bolded statement is the point I was making in the first place, you can't.
> 
> Bench Shirts and Belts are absolutely nothing like straps. Bench Shirts and belts can be used in competitions and straps can't. Straps are just a tool to assist in training, while the other 2 are gear that are part of the sport...
> 
> ...



I contradicted my statement deliberatly, to elminate all possible arguments.

A bench shirt does more than aid, but I included that to be specific as possible.  

A belt can be compared with straps more accurately in my opinion.  Its an aid, like straps.  This kind of goes back to the original question (way back when deads were discussed on which days to put them on), if I want to deadlift, I am more concerned about my hams, traps, erectors, etc than my grip.  Its a broken leg and grips are the crutch.

However, this might be getting more complicated than it needs to be.  I do still beleive that if I wanted a 1RM max, I would wear straps.  Just as a person who does a 1RM (or a dead too) for squats, wears a belt.

A person wears a belt for a certain reason.  If the person cannot lift the given weight without the belt, then the lift doesnt count.  If the person can lift the weight with the belt, then they can lift that weight, thus is that person's max.

When youre talking about numbers, if you really really want ot be specific for the person that says "with or without straps?", then like I said before, have BOTH numbers ready.  

 Reminds me of people that ask what you squat...then follow up the answer with "how far do you go down."  A number is just a number.


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## TheCurse (Mar 9, 2007)

some people need to try and make themselves feel better because of other inadequacies in their lives, AK.  im better than you because i dont use straps.  im better than you because i do use straps.  its all relative.  grow up kids we dont all have to train the same and their are many roads to the same place.

i use straps for several things. im sure someone can do dead hang pullups with +90 pounds for sets and reps without straps, but i need straps for it.


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## IJ300 (Mar 9, 2007)

I use straps for heavy DL, shrugs and rdl's.  But who cares, seriously?


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## MCx2 (Mar 9, 2007)

IJ300 said:


> I use straps for heavy DL, shrugs and rdl's.  But who cares, seriously?



Apparently the thread starter.


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## fufu (Mar 9, 2007)

TheCurse said:


> some people need to try and make themselves feel better because of other inadequacies in their lives, AK.  im better than you because i dont use straps.  im better than you because i do use straps.  its all relative.  grow up kids we dont all have to train the same and their are many roads to the same place.
> 
> i use straps for several things. im sure someone can do dead hang pullups with +90 pounds for sets and reps without straps, but i need straps for it.



Wow, long time no post!


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## AKIRA (Mar 9, 2007)

fufu said:


> Wow, long time no post!



Yeah no shit.  Like a Barbell Ninja, he throws out some weight-full reply, then disappears into the shadows..


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## Dale Mabry (Mar 9, 2007)

I wouldn't use straps, but I am in for performance.  If someone wants to use straps, that's their business.  However, I do need to point out that you DON'T deadlift 600lbs if you can't do it without straps.


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## AKIRA (Mar 10, 2007)

Dale Mabry said:


> I wouldn't use straps, but I am in for performance.  If someone wants to use straps, that's their business.  However, I do need to point out that you DON'T deadlift 600lbs if you can't do it without straps.



Disagreed.  Its a compound movement were talking about here.  It isnt like swinging the weight of a barbell to get a curl rep in, there are other elements at play.  Which is why a deadlift is a full body workout.

If you can deadlift a weight without straps, of course its a rep.  But if you have to use straps, I cant see how in the world it wouldnt count.

Were talking 1 RM on deads here, not 1RM max on static barbell holds.


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## P-funk (Mar 10, 2007)

AKIRA said:


> Disagreed.  Its a compound movement were talking about here.  It isnt like swinging the weight of a barbell to get a curl rep in, there are other elements at play.  Which is why a deadlift is a full body workout.
> 
> If you can deadlift a weight without straps, of course its a rep.  But if you have to use straps, I cant see how in the world it wouldnt count.
> 
> Were talking 1 RM on deads here, not 1RM max on static barbell holds.



if you don't squat to parallel (or below), does it count?  Nope.

If you bench press and don't touch your chest, does it count?  Nope.

If you deadlifting with straps (something that takes away from the actual movement of picking the weight up...a crutch) should it count?  Nope.


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## P-funk (Mar 10, 2007)

Dale Mabry said:


> I wouldn't use straps, but I am in for performance.  If someone wants to use straps, that's their business.  However, I do need to point out that you DON'T deadlift 600lbs if you can't do it without straps.



agree.

I used to care.  Now I don't care so much if people want to use straps, if we are in an athletic setting.

Brad gillingham uses straps for his RDLs because he says he doesn't want his grip strenght to impeded his hamstring and glute development when he is doing reps.

Olympic lifters use straps on their clean and snatch pulls (I do too) because the amount of force that happens at the end of the pull as the bar goes back down to the groud is just to tough to hold onto rep after rep, set after set.


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## AKIRA (Mar 10, 2007)

P-funk said:


> if you don't squat to parallel (or below), does it count?  Nope.
> 
> If you bench press and don't touch your chest, does it count?  Nope.
> 
> If you deadlifting with straps (something that takes away from the actual movement of picking the weight up...a crutch) should it count?  Nope.



Youre comparing full range of motion to an actual lift?

So do knee wraps eliminate a 1RM for squats?  Now before you say that it doesnt enhance the lift, the lift-ee might say otherwise.  If a person cannot do the lift without the straps it doesnt count.  But if he can lift with them, I STILL cant think of it as too much of help.

Thats why I brought up bench shirts since the word "cheating" came up.  Bench shirts = cheating...at least I think so.  Its such a dramatic improvement over doing it raw, that I am surprised people even list such lifts.

Even if I tied the barbell to my wrists and used NO grip strength, if I go through a full range of motion of a conventional deadlift, I am going to count it.  Theres just so much more at play during a deadlift other than grip.


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## fufu (Mar 10, 2007)

Lifting suited exists for a few reason:

Main reason being...it can prevent injuries. Most of the older benchers will lift equipped, especially on bench. That is due to past/potentional pectoral tears/shoulder problems. It lets them stay in the game.

Dave Tate once said in relation to the "raw vs. equipped" arguement something of the lines of, "It allows a greater aspect of skill to be entered into power lifting. You have to learn your suit and you have to learn how to tweak your form and training to get optimum potentional out of it." 

You don't have to agree with that, I'm not sure I do, but just something to think about. 

Also - in powerlifting there is raw and equipped. They don't just throw them all into one group and place their winners accordingly. Someone can choose to lift raw in an equipped meet, but that is of course, their choice. 

When someone says they can bench "X" amount of weight, I would assume they would be distinct in saying "shirted" or "raw". Especially if you yourself were an experienced lifter. If they don't, you can just ask, I don't see the problem. I doubt it is something they are ashamed of. 

I'm also a bit confused on how PL feds sanction their rules. Why knee wraps but no wrist straps? If it was up to me I'd probably scrap both of them. As far as I know knee wraps aren't for safety, just for better rebound.

There are some things like wrist wraps which I can definitely see being allowed in bench lifts for safety reasons.

I'm sure there is a history to all of this, I'd be interested to find out.


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## KelJu (Mar 10, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> Seriously.  If you can't hold onto the weight, you've got no damn business picking it up.  Quit standind in front of the mirror adjusting your straps before you  pretend to work out.





Luke95 said:


> Are you retarded or something?  What else would we be talking about strap for....
> 
> 
> Idiots.




Your an idiot!

I can shrug 600lbs for good reps. I can't hold onto 600lbs, and I will use my straps. To say that I should shrug 200lbs less than what I can, because I can't hold onto it for 30 seconds is absurd.


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## P-funk (Mar 10, 2007)

AKIRA said:


> Youre comparing full range of motion to an actual lift?
> 
> *I am comparing something which allows your to lift greater weight (a partial ROM) to somethign that allows you to lift greater weight (lifting straps).  What the hell are you comparing?*
> 
> ...


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## Duncans Donuts (Mar 10, 2007)

If you are powerlifting, straps are out.  If you are training to increase your backside strength for a sport or bodybuilding, straps are wonderful.

Grip strength is limited by a number of things, but it's safe to say that most people can't have their grip strength keep up with their back strenth.

The fool who started this thread would imply that it's OKAY to suppress your back strength for the sake of being "tough".  Get the fuck outta here.


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## Duncans Donuts (Mar 10, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> Seriously.  If you can't hold onto the weight, you've got no damn business picking it up.  Quit standind in front of the mirror adjusting your straps before you  pretend to work out.
> 
> Idiots.



You're fucking stupid.


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## P-funk (Mar 10, 2007)

Duncans Donuts said:


> If you are powerlifting, straps are out.  If you are training to increase your backside strength for a sport or bodybuilding, straps are wonderful.



bingo.


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## AKIRA (Mar 10, 2007)

Forgive me for not even acknowledging the thread starter.  I was speaking of max numbers.  Bragging rights.

P, my knee wrap comparion is in the pudding.  If you use knee wraps for safety, "extending the knee," or for looks, I dont care what the reason is, should I NOT allow myself to accept what your 1 rep max is, if you used wraps if you did it?   Or should I say "ok so you squat 200lbs (  ) for 1 rep max with knee wraps.  what can you do without the wraps?"

I am not powerlifting nor was I counting it.  I dont even remember how it came about.  Something about not counting a 1 rep max of a particuliar deadlift cuz they dont allow them in powerlifting.  I dont know nor care.  If I did, then I guess my squat numbers dont count either, cuz Im not squatting Olympic style. 

Bottom line, if someone can max at 500lbs on a deadlift with straps, I say thats their damn max!
If the same fucker has develops perfect grip and doesnt need straps, but gets the same max deadlift of 500lbs, again, its his max!


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## P-funk (Mar 10, 2007)

AKIRA said:


> Forgive me for not even acknowledging the thread starter.  I was speaking of max numbers.  Bragging rights.
> 
> P, my knee wrap comparion is in the pudding.  If you use knee wraps for safety, "extending the knee," or for looks, I dont care what the reason is, should I NOT allow myself to accept what your 1 rep max is, if you used wraps if you did it?   Or should I say "ok so you squat 200lbs (  ) for 1 rep max with knee wraps.  what can you do without the wraps?"
> 
> ...





Knee wraps are performance enhancing.  they do not protect the knees and infact they do just the oppisite, driving the patellar backwards into the joint.  So lets get that out of the way.

Yes, if you are not powerlifting, then go ahead and use wraps.  If you read my initial post, I said that I am all for them if your sole purpose is athletic conditioning (and lets throw in there hypertrophy).

But, I would not count that as your TRUE 1 repetition max.  The only thing I would count is what you can do without a "crutch".  What can you deadlift with your bare hands......What can you squat raw....etc.....


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## Duncans Donuts (Mar 10, 2007)

If you can deadlift 500 pounds with or without straps, it's impressive.  Who cares what anyone else thinks?  The guy who started this thread tried to instigate a verbal fight by implying anyone using straps is a "wuss" - although I doubt he could deadlift anything near 500 pounds with crane assistance.

As far as powerlifting is concerned, it's a different story.  Powerlifting is a sport, and including a strapped deadlift with a competition would be like allowing a forward lateral on a kick-off.  It breaks the rules.


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## fufu (Mar 10, 2007)

P-funk said:


> Knee wraps are performance enhancing.  they do not protect the knees and infact they do just the oppisite, driving the patellar backwards into the joint.  So lets get that out of the way.
> 
> 
> 
> But, I would not count that as your TRUE 1 repetition max.  The only thing I would count is what you can do without a "crutch".  What can you deadlift with your bare hands......What can you squat raw....etc.....



That makes sense gauging strength from an athletic training aspect(too a point) because you are handling resistance with no gear what so ever, like in a game or something.


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## Duncans Donuts (Mar 10, 2007)

fufu said:


> That makes sense gauging strength from an athletic training aspect(too a point) because you are handling resistance with no gear what so ever, like in a game or something.



Yes, but there is no motion in a sport (minus powerlifting) resembling a deadlift, so the analogy doesn't really work.

What it would suggest is that you won't be able to grab onto, for example, a running back playing football as well because your grip is weaker.

However, grip can be trained seperately.  Why would someone be willing to throw away the most optimized benefits from an exercise (the deadlift) by limiting the weight you can use for the hamstrings, lats, etc. in eliminating straps.  Train your grip with the deadlift if you can, but if your forearms can't keep up, use those straps!!


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## fufu (Mar 10, 2007)

Duncans Donuts said:


> Yes, but there is no motion in a sport (minus powerlifting) resembling a deadlift, so the analogy doesn't really work.
> 
> What it would suggest is that you won't be able to grab onto, for example, a running back playing football as well because your grip is weaker.
> 
> However, grip can be trained seperately.  Why would someone be willing to throw away the most optimized benefits from an exercise (the deadlift) by limiting the weight you can use for the hamstrings, lats, etc. in eliminating straps.  Train your grip with the deadlift if you can, but if your forearms can't keep up, use those straps!!



I knew you'd be on this post, that's why I added that "to a point" in parenthesis, heh. 

I was speaking in general terms of resistance exercise(any resistance exercise) gauged to athletic strength. You have yourself and some clothes to accomplish work, that's it. I do agree wholeheartedly that there are scenarios in which something like straps or even weight belts can be utilized. I listed one of them in my original thread post.


----------



## Twigz (Mar 12, 2007)

Ok, I did 405lbs X 1 deadlift, without straps today, can I be on the none "wussie" list now....Please?????


Got it up then almost dropped it on the floor, but set it down nice just prior to that.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 13, 2007)

Prince said:


> well, I have no problems now...due to my back injury I lift like a pussy.


What excuse did you use before the injury?


----------



## MCx2 (Mar 13, 2007)

AKIRA said:


> Even if I tied the barbell to my wrists and used NO grip strength, if I go through a full range of motion of a conventional deadlift, I am going to count it.  Theres just so much more at play during a deadlift other than grip.



Ever hear of the expression "A team is only as strong as it's weakest link?"

That applies here 100%. 

You said it yourself, there are more things at play than just grip strength, unfortunately, it's at play as well. I would be lying to myself and everyone else if I said my deadlift was 480 lbs, considering I can only pull 420 or so without straps.


----------



## CowPimp (Mar 13, 2007)

I think straps are fine if they aren't a crutch.  Don't use them unnecessarily.  My grip is pretty strong, but I still find it limiting me on rare occasions.  For example, right now I'm doing some slow tempo stuff, and my grip just falls apart on certain lifts.  Try doing RDLs with a 3 second negative and a 2 second pause in the bottom position.  Tell me if your hands aren't harder to operate after that.

Of course, I'm still not using straps, I'm just saying I understand why people do.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 13, 2007)

I dont use straps, and never plan on it.  Granted, I also don't plan on deadlifting 400 lbs.  Ever.

That being said, straps are a lifting aid, something unnatural to assist in performance.  While not entirely the same, it's somewhat on the same level as a person using a pull-up machine with 30 lbs taken off saying they crushed 20 pullups.  Again, not really the same thing, but kinda sorta almost somewhat maybe along the same lines.

I'm not going to hate on someone who uses straps, especially since it rarely interferes with my workout; to each their own.  But I feel it's a crutch, especially for anyone lifting a normal amount of weight.  Work the hands a little bit, make them sore, and make them stronger.


----------



## largepkg (Mar 13, 2007)

Pianomahnn said:


> I dont use straps, and never plan on it.  Granted, I also don't plan on deadlifting 400 lbs.  Ever.
> 
> That being said, straps are a lifting aid, something unnatural to assist in performance.  While not entirely the same, it's somewhat on the same level as a person using a pull-up machine with 30 lbs taken off saying they crushed 20 pullups.  Again, not really the same thing, but kinda sorta almost somewhat maybe along the same lines.
> 
> I'm not going to hate on someone who uses straps, especially since it rarely interferes with my workout; to each their own.  But I feel it's a crutch, especially for anyone lifting a *normal *amount of weight.  Work the hands a little bit, make them sore, and make them stronger.



For pulling a "normal" amount of weight I would agree. I use them so other parts of my body can be adequately trained. I never pull for max lifts anymore but when I pull 365 x 6-10 I need them and it doesn't concern me one bit.


----------



## AKIRA (Mar 13, 2007)

largepkg said:


> For pulling a "normal" amount of weight I would agree. I use them so other parts of my body can be adequately trained. I never pull for max lifts anymore but *when I pull 365 x 6-10 I need them and it doesn't concern me one bit.*



But those numbers dont count or so thats what some may have you believe.


----------



## katt (Mar 13, 2007)

I use straps....   Only on my last set of rows or shrugs tho


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 13, 2007)

Okay, comparing assisted pullups (where the agonist is being relieved of tension by the machine) to a deadlift with strap assists is stretching it at the least.  
In fact the straps are used to engage the prime mover (hamstring complex, back) with MORE weight, while the function of the assisted pull-up is literally the oppsoite, to relieve tension from the prime mover (lats).


----------



## AKIRA (Mar 13, 2007)

Duncans Donuts said:


> Okay, comparing assisted pullups (where the agonist is being relieved of tension by the machine) to a deadlift with strap assists is stretching it at the least.
> In fact the straps are used to engage the *prime mover (hamstring complex, back) with MORE weight*, while the function of the assisted pull-up is literally the oppsoite, to relieve tension from the prime mover (lats).



That was my whole argument.  Of course, thats an interesting point with the lats, in fact, ive never noticed it.


----------



## crazy_enough (Mar 13, 2007)

Mudge said:


> We live in an age where people use their hands so much they sometimes have to use various "pussy devices" to help save them from further damage due to RMI or carpel tunnel.
> 
> I used to think the same thing, but now I can say proudly, I'm a pussy and I love straps for CERTAIN lifts. I do not use them all the time.


 
AfuckingMEN!

I had lost 60% of the strenght in my right hand, regained a lot, however my back is indeed much stronger than this right hand will ever be. db rows with 85-90 pounds kills my hand after 3-4 reps  straps (or hooks at times, if Id rather not have forearms worked as much) enable me to get to 8-10 reps or however far the muscle will take me. 

I must admit that air Lat carriers just like those who wear gloves during cardio, make me LMAO!


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 13, 2007)

AKIRA said:


> But those numbers dont count or so thats what some may have you believe.



They count, that is your deadlift with straps, which is higher than your deadlift without.


----------



## largepkg (Mar 14, 2007)

AKIRA said:


> But those numbers dont count or so thats what some may have you believe.


----------



## I Are Baboon (Mar 14, 2007)

I used to use straps quite often, especially during back workouts, shrugs, and deadlifts.  I started to think of them as a crutch and thought they were limiting my grip strength.  I decided to ditch the straps.  My lifts suffered for a while, but I've since gotten that weight back and then some.  I have not used straps now in over a year.  

I don't really care either way if I see someone else using them.  Whatever makes them happy.


----------



## largepkg (Mar 14, 2007)

Dale Mabry said:


> They count, that is your deadlift with straps, which is higher than your deadlift without.



If it's a competition then I guess you would be right.


----------



## AKIRA (Mar 14, 2007)

Dale Mabry said:


> They count, that is your deadlift with straps, which is higher than your deadlift without.





AKIRA said:


> If anything, for 1RM, I would list 1 max with straps, 1 max without straps.


----------



## juggernaut (Mar 14, 2007)

I see it this way; how the hell will you develop forearm strength if you rely on straps?


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 14, 2007)

I look at it this way...

If someone were to ask me what my vertical was, I wouldn't tell them what it was jumping on a trampoline.

If someone asked me how fast I could run a mile, I wouldn't give them my time running downhill.

Now, does that mean you shouldn't use straps?  Nope, it just means that I don't consider assisted lifts whether it be by a partner or with straps, wraps, etc.


----------



## juggernaut (Mar 14, 2007)

Dale Mabry said:


> I look at it this way...
> 
> If someone were to ask me what my vertical was, I wouldn't tell them what it was jumping on a trampoline.
> 
> If someone asked me how fast I could run a mile, I wouldn't give them my time running downhill.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 14, 2007)

What's not to understand?


----------



## juggernaut (Mar 14, 2007)

Dale Mabry said:


> What's not to understand?


I understood your point, just confused the hell out of me momentarily with your analogies. I dont agree with straps. I dont like them. Never did. I believe they are on the same level as gloves.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 14, 2007)

Dale Mabry said:


> I look at it this way...
> 
> If someone were to ask me what my vertical was, I wouldn't tell them what it was jumping on a trampoline.
> 
> ...



Straps allow you to load your body with a weight that is more demanding for the primary muscles.  Running downhill is less demanding than running uphill, as is jumping on a trampoline less demanding than jumping without.  Straps make everything more demanding except for the weakest link.

In other words, you have to *work harder* for better results with straps in a deadlift with the EXCEPTION of the forearms, and when sprinting downhill you have to work *less hard* for better results.

I would not however consider a downhill quarter mile time or a trampoline vertical jump.  That's pretty silly.  And it may not make sense to consider a deadlift wit straps as a "max" - but it's certainly more reasonable to consider  a deadlift with straps than to consider a vertical jump on a trampoline.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 14, 2007)

Duncans Donuts said:


> In other words, you have to *work harder* for better results with straps in a deadlift with the EXCEPTION of the forearms, and when sprinting downhill you have to work *less hard* for better results.
> 
> *You should be able to attain a greater speed sprinting downhill, so one could make an argument that maintaining balance at a faster speed would challenge your vestibular system more.  Regardless, both situations would challenge one ability or system more at the expense of another.*
> 
> I would not however consider a downhill quarter mile time or a trampoline vertical jump.  That's pretty silly.  And it may not make sense to consider a deadlift wit straps as a "max" - but it's certainly more reasonable to consider  a deadlift with straps than to consider a vertical jump on a trampoline.




I agree, I wouldn't consider either.  I look at it like this, if we were in the middle of nowhere and my "deadlift" max is 600 and something 600lbs fell on you, you better hope that 600lbs is without straps.


----------



## njc (Mar 14, 2007)

Most of the professional arm-wrestlers like to do wet towel squeezes with variance in the grip for grip strength.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 14, 2007)

Dale Mabry said:


> I agree, I wouldn't consider either.  I look at it like this, if we were in the middle of nowhere and my "deadlift" max is 600 and something 600lbs fell on you, you better hope that 600lbs is without straps.




lol, point taken.

You have a point about the difficult aspects of sprinting donwnhill.  But I personally think you're stretching the analogy a bit.  

And running or sprinting dowhill would probably be a pretty good way to break a lot of bones and kill yourself, so I hope nobody tries it.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 14, 2007)

Duncans Donuts said:


> lol, point taken.
> 
> You have a point about the difficult aspects of sprinting donwnhill.  But I personally think you're stretching the analogy a bit.
> 
> And running or sprinting dowhill would probably be a pretty good way to break a lot of bones and kill yourself, so I hope nobody tries it.




I know a shitload of people who do it, and consider it one of the dumber things I have seen, and I have seen a lot of dumb.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 14, 2007)

I'm going to try sprinting downhill while doing the valsalva maneuver.  That might be even stupider.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 14, 2007)

It's not stupid.  We used to train that in cross country all the time.  It's a _great_ way to pass people in a way that expends less energy than passing on flat terrain.  Like most physical activities, it gets easier and safer the more it's done.  A noob will probably fall on their face, tumble a bit, maybe even cry.  I crushed downhill because I trained for it.

edit:  It also works the legs and balance differently than regular running.  The movement during impact is significantly different than that on flat ground.  Variety, I guess.  Thats what it's all about.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 14, 2007)

Pianomahnn said:


> It's not stupid.  We used to train that in cross country all the time.  It's a _great_ way to pass people in a way that expends less energy than passing on flat terrain.  Like most physical activities, it gets easier and safer the more it's done.  A noob will probably fall on their face, tumble a bit, maybe even cry.  I crushed downhill because I trained for it.
> 
> edit:  It also works the legs and balance differently than regular running.  The movement during impact is significantly different than that on flat ground.  Variety, I guess.  Thats what it's all about.




You are talking about training in the context of a sport.  With respect, you missed the point.

Yes, the impact is significanly higher than on flat ground, thus increasing its uselessness and danger potential for people who aren't playing a sport that would require running downhill.

And we weren't talking about cross country, low intensity movement.  We were talking about sprinting and demanding running.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 14, 2007)

I didn't miss the point, I missed the whole original post where it was brought up. ;-)


----------



## TheCurse (Mar 14, 2007)

i can run faster and better it seems when i wear shoes. so im wondering, is wearing shoes for running considered a crutch?


----------



## JerseyDevil (Mar 14, 2007)

I was the first person to respond to this thread. I find it hilarious that Luke 'lit the fuse' and then walked away. 

There are all kinds of ways to lift. If it works for you, then do it. Powerlifting would be the only example I can think where using straps is counter productive. Other then that, whatever floats your boat.


----------



## juggernaut (Mar 14, 2007)

True.


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## Seanp156 (Mar 14, 2007)

TheCurse said:


> i can run faster and better it seems when i wear shoes. so im wondering, is wearing shoes for running considered a crutch?



I thought that was obvious?


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 14, 2007)

TheCurse said:


> i can run faster and better it seems when i wear shoes. so im wondering, is wearing shoes for running considered a crutch?


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 15, 2007)

TheCurse said:


> i can run faster and better it seems when i wear shoes. so im wondering, is wearing shoes for running considered a crutch?



Actually, a very large number of people would say they are.  The amount of artificial stability they impart on the foot makes the foot itself less stable and can lead to problems later in life.


----------



## CowPimp (Mar 15, 2007)

TheCurse said:


> i can run faster and better it seems when i wear shoes. so im wondering, is wearing shoes for running considered a crutch?



Funny, but I highly doubt you've actually compared your times running with and without shoes.  Comparing this to straps is not quite the same.

Now, as I said, I have no problem with straps if used properly.  However, if you tell me you deadlifted X amount, then say it was with straps, I'm not going to consider that deadlifting the weight.  Holding the weight is part of the lift.


----------



## juggernaut (Mar 15, 2007)

wow this thread has gone completely stupid.


----------



## Pedigree (Mar 15, 2007)

Why let fatigued forearms and/or wrists inhibit gains that could be made by deadlifting? If I'm pulling, the intent sure as hell isn't to improve my grip.
I rarely use straps for the record.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 15, 2007)

Pedigree said:


> I rarely use straps for the record.



I couldn;t tell.

No one is saying you shouldn't use straps, it is your decision.  What most are saying is that a strapped lift isn't your max.


----------



## Twigz (Mar 15, 2007)

Well I just wanted to know if I was still a wuss....


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 15, 2007)

Twigz said:


> Well I just wanted to know if I was still a wuss....



Call me when you can do 410 and we'll talk.


----------



## kinkery (Mar 15, 2007)

so if i can hold 600lbs in my bare hands  i'm not a wuss!


----------



## Luke95 (Mar 15, 2007)

kinkery said:


> so if i can hold 600lbs in my bare hands  i'm not a wuss!



Deffinately not


----------



## Pedigree (Mar 15, 2007)

Dale Mabry said:


> I couldn;t tell.
> 
> No one is saying you shouldn't use straps, it is your decision.  What most are saying is that a strapped lift isn't your max.



What's with the arrogance? I never accused anyone of saying anything. I said I rarely use them, but I do feel they have their place. Is there a problem with that?

So a strap deadlift isn't my max...big freaking deal! I'm not a pathetic moron who goes around bragging about my deadlift max, with or without straps. People who do are fools. People who don't use straps at the expense of their leg, back, and hip development simply because their ego is bigger than their bodies are also fools.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 15, 2007)

Pedigree said:


> What's with the arrogance? I never accused anyone of saying anything. I said I rarely use them, but I do feel they have their place. Is there a problem with that?
> 
> So a strap deadlift isn't my max...big freaking deal! I'm not a pathetic moron who goes around bragging about my deadlift max, with or without straps. People who do are fools. People who don't use straps at the expense of their leg, back, and hip development simply because their ego is bigger than their bodies are also fools.



There's no arrogance, I choose not to use straps, you choose to use them, who cares?  I'm not going to call you a fool for using them, I'm not 12.

EDIT: Oh, I get what you are saying now.  I was joking, did you change your post?  I seem to remember something about how you essentially said they suck.


----------



## Luke95 (Mar 15, 2007)

Pedigree said:


> What's with the arrogance? I never accused anyone of saying anything. I said I rarely use them, but I do feel they have their place. Is there a problem with that?




I posted this after I saw one kid strapped up to do DP curls.  That day, I crap you not, another kid had his phone strapped to his hand.



I dont know about you guys but, I am in the gym to push myself.  I am in there purely for the stress relief.  I don't care what gives first (it usually isn't my grip on any of the lifts that I do.....).  

*I just want to make sure that it isn't my mind that gives up first.* 

Having a band aide like strapps, NH3, baby powder...... just using them is like giving up on the strength of your mind.  

There is a reason why there was such a long time before anybody broke a 500# bench.....  and then once it happened....  MANY people could do it.

I guess my goals (mentally) in the gym are different than the majority.





But if you use gloves, you're a REAL sissy.


----------



## Pedigree (Mar 15, 2007)

Dale Mabry said:


> There's no arrogance, I choose not to use straps, you choose to use them, who cares?  I'm not going to call you a fool for using them, I'm not 12.
> 
> EDIT: Oh, I get what you are saying now.  I was joking, did you change your post?  I seem to remember something about how you essentially said they suck.



Nope, I didn't say they suck and I didn't change my post. I said it's stupid to make the large muscles that deads are intended to work suffer simply because my grip gets fatigued. 
I don't have a very impressive deadlift max at 400#, but it was raw and without straps. I use straps when working heavy sets like 10 sets of singles or something like it. I'll put them on usually on the 7th or 8th set after my grip starts to fail. They're perfect for the purpose of pulling those last 2 or 3 heavy singles.


----------



## Luke95 (Mar 15, 2007)

But hey....  I guess we'll all know what's what in 20 years when we all see what eachother look like.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 15, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> I just want to make sure that it isn't my mind that gives up first.
> 
> Having a band aide like strapps, NH3, baby powder...... just using them is like giving up on the strength of your mind.



This is utterly false.  Any exercise effort may be limited by strength of mind, but strength of mind does not OVERCOME the physical limitation of the force output capacity of the forearm (and a host of other muscles).  The forearm is the weakest link in the exercise.

It is a fact that if your grip strengh is not equal to your back strength, using straps will help shuffeling the load to your back.  Are you saying you can overcome this difference with strength of mind??  Are you being serious?

I guess people in wheelchairs are just weak of mind, too.


----------



## Luke95 (Mar 15, 2007)

Duncans Donuts said:


> I guess people in wheelchairs are just weak of mind, too.



Not in a 'physical wheelchair'.  Are you?

Who's to say what a 'wheelchair' is.  You and I are obviously in the gym for two very different reasons.


BTW, there is only one thing that will be/is utterly false.  That one thing is applying that phrase.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 15, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> Not in a 'physical wheelchair'.  Are you?
> 
> Who's to say what a wheelchair is.  You and I are obviously in the gym for two very different reasons.
> 
> ...



Get off your silly "people who use straps are wusses" fake ass macho shit.  I go to the gym to get big and beat people in various athletic endeavors.  I also am a physiology major and work as a trainer, so I'm in the gym for that too.  Your best rebuttal to any kind of argument is to talk about how weak of mind people who use straps are and how big a wusses they are.  You're not as strong as impressive as you've deluded yourself into believing you are.


----------



## Luke95 (Mar 15, 2007)

Duncan,

Consider your own contrapositive.  

You are suggesting that the grip strength is stronger than that of the mind.  Could we say this is 'utterly false'?

Consider that your mind (not just what you think you can do... that's just where the chemical cassades progagate from) controls everything.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 15, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> BTW, there is only one thing that will be/is utterly false.  That one thing is applying that phrase.



 

Assertion


----------



## Luke95 (Mar 15, 2007)

Duncans Donuts said:


> how weak of mind people who use straps are and how big a wusses they are.





You've taken this way out of context... and your extreme deffensiveness is humorously telling.   

Please keep going.


I'm gonna requote my last statement because it is at the route of everything.



> Duncan,
> 
> Consider your own contrapositive.
> 
> ...



You know in Thai land, many people without legs who need wheelchairs do not have them.  They literally crawl on the ground.  

Now consider the 'wheelchair' equal to the 'strapps'

Obviously, one of the two people has a much harder life.  Which of the two will have the stronger mind?


As long as I still have my own hands, I'll let me grip fail first.  I'll keep working on that.  I'm not calling anybody a wuss for real.  A lot of people need to think about what they do though.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 15, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> Duncan,
> You are suggesting that the grip strength is stronger than that of the mind.  Could we say this is 'utterly false'?
> 
> Consider that your mind (not just what you think you can do... that's just where the chemical cassades progagate from) controls everything.



I am looking at it in simple terms.  I am saying, "If the grip strength is able to provide a certain amount of force, and the level of that force is less than that of the back, straps will improve the force directed to the agonist muscle groups".  And I am saying that given that value of force (whatever it may be), it will not be possible to overcome that force limitation exclusively through mental will power.  

My wheelchair analogy was to point out that, despite the mind "controlling everything", it can't go outside laws of physics.  That limitation, whether we can gauge it or not , is REAL.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 15, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> Seriously.  If you can't hold onto the weight, you've got no damn business picking it up.  Quit standind in front of the mirror adjusting your straps before you  pretend to work out.
> 
> Idiots.



Out of context?


----------



## Luke95 (Mar 15, 2007)

Duncans Donuts said:


> Out of context?



Read post #113  and then tell me if I was talking about you or Ronnie Coleman.

Don't forget to breathe in the mean time.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 15, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> You've taken this way out of context... and your extreme deffensiveness is humorously telling.
> 
> Please keep going.
> 
> ...



You've missed the point of my analogy.  I was pointing out how the mind is limited by physics and physical limitations.


----------



## Luke95 (Mar 15, 2007)

And you missed my point(s).


The mind isn't limited by anything.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 15, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> So you are arguing that everything in the universe is set into motion because of it's surroundings (pysiology)... and that there is no free will.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 15, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> And you missed my point(s).
> 
> 
> The mind isn't limited by anything.



I admire that philosophy in some ways, but I disagree.  Don't take me as being into reductionism or anything, though.


----------



## Luke95 (Mar 15, 2007)

Duncans Donuts said:


>



Edited.... 

I didn't expect you to understand the gravity of your statement


----------



## Luke95 (Mar 15, 2007)

Duncans Donuts said:


> I admire that philosophy in some ways, but I disagree.  Don't take me as being into reductionism or anything, though.



You can reduce yourself all you want buddy.  I wont stop you.  Cheers


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 15, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> Edited....
> 
> I didn't expect you to understand the gravity of your statement anyway



 

http://changingminds.org/disciplines/argument/fallacies/red_herring.htm


----------



## Luke95 (Mar 15, 2007)

Duncans Donuts said:


> http://changingminds.org/disciplines/argument/fallacies/red_herring.htm




You know... there is a stage that babies go through early on where if something is out of site, they beleive it doesn't exist anymore.

If you don't understand the connection between X and Y, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


----------



## Luke95 (Mar 15, 2007)

I just wanted to point out the HUGE irony of this discussion.  

Duncan's Sig 



> "This most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." -Isaac Newton.




My Sig-



> "Nothing can't come from nothing......"
> -Gammow




My sig is a quote in refrence to the birth of the universe.


for real Duncan,  Cheers.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 15, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> You know... there is a stage that babies go through early on where if something is out of site, they beleive it doesn't exist anymore.
> 
> If you don't understand the connection between X and Y, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.





Attack the Person

Your argument: mind beats all.
My argument: mind limited.

Keep training with that thought, you'll probably do very well with it, honestly.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 15, 2007)

I don't deify the mind, that doesn't mean I have contradictions in my philosophy.


----------



## viet_jon (Mar 15, 2007)

Duncans Donuts said:


> *
> Attack the Person
> *
> Your argument: mind beats all.
> ...



 ...........nice link!!!


----------



## viet_jon (Mar 15, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> I dont know about you guys but, I am in the gym to push myself.  I am in there purely for the stress relief.  I don't care what gives first (it usually isn't my grip on any of the lifts that I do.....).
> 
> *I just want to make sure that it isn't my mind that gives up first.*
> 
> ...



I work out for the same reasons........

some days I hit the gym.....and for some reason....I just don't have that push in me. I do a crappy workout, then leave feeling angry at myself.

so was it my body/muscles that were fatigued, which resulted in a crappy workout? No.....absolutely not. The crappy workout was from lack of concentration, wandering mindstate, and a weak will.


now back to topic......

straps aren't for pussy's. Some professionals have clearly stated why in this thread..........there's not much of an argument anymore.


----------



## Luke95 (Mar 15, 2007)

Duncans Donuts said:


> I don't deify the mind, that doesn't mean I have contradictions in my philosophy.



It goes deeper than that.  I wouldn't get too philosophical on you if I didn't start this thread and owe an explanation to people/ideas that I may have offended. (Obviously struck a chord in you)


I know the mind is at the root of everything.  I can tell you this from first hand experience.  I am slowly losing my mind.... and I can feel 'everything' shifting.  

I see things differently than most people (very very differently).  People that remember me from the past will tell you that I've always been weird.  Everything has progressively gotten weirder until about last Christmas when I saw a doctor.  

Originally they said Schizophrenia.  I was on some meds for a while that did some things in my mind that when I saw them change.... I realized that I had more power/ability than I ever thought.  Sometimes you don't realize where you stand until you start to shift.  (Kind???ve like Einstein's relativity... you don't have an unbiased reference point or observer [clock] to tell you where you are always standing.)

My lifts in the gym have literally DOUBLED in a period of 2-3 months.  

I ran into some problems a couple weeks ago and was forced to see a different doc.  Right now we're ruling out brain tumors and Seizures.  In the mean time, I had to be taken off this medications that made such a difference in my lifts (probably from lowered glucocorticoid levels in general).

I still have 100% of my strength.  In fact, I'm getting stronger.  I am completely attributing it to the fact that I KNOW what I can do.  So naturally.... I am a huge proponent of the mind.  In fact, I am a beleiver in Solipsism.

I also know what everybody else can do!  I know that most people are capable of SO MUCH damn more than what they are doing right now!  (Especially me)  

*NOBODY* is a wuss.... PERIOD.




*This thread was genuinely started out of rage.*  If I could just wake up one or two people to what they can do then it worked.

I started this thread over at Bodybuilding Health & Fitness Forum - Iron for Life - Powered By vBindex and got banned 3 times in the process.    It was worth it though.  I got a 'thank you' for a two members over there.



*This thread isn't about straps*.  Figure out what this thread is for yourself.  



Duncans Donuts said:


> Keep training with that thought, you'll probably do very well with it, honestly.



Hopefully I'll run into you in a couple years.


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## CowPimp (Mar 15, 2007)

Okay, I'm going to settle this thread once and for all:

My penis is bigger than everyone else's.


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## viet_jon (Mar 15, 2007)

Luke95 said:


> [*]*This thread isn't about straps*.  Figure out what this thread is for yourself.  [/LIST]



*Thread Title: Straps are for wusses*

first post:



			
				crazydude said:
			
		

> Seriously. If you can't hold onto the weight, you've got no damn business picking it up. Quit standind in front of the mirror adjusting your straps before you pretend to work out.
> 
> Idiots.


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## Pianomahnn (Mar 16, 2007)

viet_jon said:


> straps aren't for pussy's. Some professionals have clearly stated why in this thread..........there's not much of an argument anymore.


Every "professional" claim can be debated by another professional.

I am a professional pussy identifier.  I've identified users of straps as pussies.

OMGZ I LAUGH


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## AKIRA (Mar 16, 2007)

I cant believe this shit is still going on.  At least its more on topic than what I was discussing..


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