# Real Running Vs. Treadmill Running



## ABCs (Jan 20, 2007)

Well since I started back on my road to good health, I have been doing treadmill running. It's good because you can do it in your own home, I can go for alot longer and I sweat a shitload more. 

Well today, I built up the confidence (and layer of clothing) to go real running in the park down the street from me. I didn't go for as long as I usually do on a treadmill, but I am soar as shit right now, I feel like I got a full body workout and it just felt better, more intense, even if it was shorter. 

What are your thoughts on the two?


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## P-funk (Jan 20, 2007)

real running makes your glutes work a lot harder.  You have to push against the ground and propel yourself forward.  On the treadmill, the ground moves and you stay still.  This works the glutes less.

If you always run on the treadmill, it sets the pace for you.  Outside, you may not know how to pace yourself and end up running faster or at a higher intensity than you intended to.

Running outside is typically done on concrete, that is a much harder surface than the treadmill (unless you run on a track or a grass field).

i think treadmills suck ass though.


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## assassin (Jan 20, 2007)

Real Running Vs. Treadmill Running ???

machine vs. free weight??


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## Adamjs (Jan 20, 2007)

There have been numerous studies on the differences between the two. There was even a study that showed the differences between male and females and how the treadmill affected them due to anatomical differences with hips etc...

It depends on what you are trying to achieve though. Treadmill running, in its current form, does not cross over 100% to the outside world. Generally I try to do both - besides - it gets damn boring watching the same wall over and over again.


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## Pylon (Jan 20, 2007)

I read somewhere that to simulate "real" running, you should set the treadmill at a 1% grade.  This is supposed to compensate for the moving belt by making it slightly harder, forcing the muscles to put out an equivalent amount of work.  I don't think that would address what Funk mentioned about the glutes, tho.


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## ABCs (Jan 20, 2007)

P-funk said:


> real running makes your glutes work a lot harder.  You have to push against the ground and propel yourself forward.  On the treadmill, the ground moves and you stay still.  This works the glutes less.
> 
> If you always run on the treadmill, it sets the pace for you.  Outside, you may not know how to pace yourself and end up running faster or at a higher intensity than you intended to.
> 
> ...



Exactly what I was thinking, just didn't convey it too well in the original post. I am moving out of my house and getting an Eliptical for my new pad, so it won't matter. Good thing is, my new apartment in NyC has a park right across the street. So when I am sick of the eliptical, I walk across the street and have a field day. 

Adam, just trying to maximize my Cardio workouts as much as possible. I am trying all my options and mixing the ones I like then droping the others. 

Pylon, I always set my treadmill on an incline. It takes me forever to get a decent workout unless I have some type of resistance.

More input?


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## P-funk (Jan 20, 2007)

Where are you moving to in NYC?  I used to live on the upper east side.


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## squanto (Jan 20, 2007)

Honestly i hate treadmills... far too boring. However, they have their place... it's nice to know your heartrate and exactly how fast you're going, how far you've gone, etc... It also doesn't seem to be as hard on my joints as running on the street.

If the weather sucks, I run on an indoor track... but if I had a treadmill at home I'd probably use it on rainy/cold days. On nice days, I'd much rather be outside.


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## ABCs (Jan 20, 2007)

P-funk said:


> Where are you moving to in NYC?  I used to live on the upper east side.



Lower East Side. I have a 19th floor view of the Brooklyn Bridge. Instant wet when bringning ladies over.  

Why'd you move out of the area?


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## P-funk (Jan 20, 2007)

ABCs said:


> Lower East Side. I have a 19th floor view of the Brooklyn Bridge. Instant wet when bringning ladies over.
> 
> Why'd you move out of the area?



Because it costs to much money to live there and because I was burned out with NYC.  There are a lot more opportunities for things that I want to do here in AZ.


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## ABCs (Jan 20, 2007)

P-funk said:


> Because it costs to much money to live there and because I was burned out with NYC.  There are a lot more opportunities for things that I want to do here in AZ.



Exactly the reason why I always end up back here. Good luck man.


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## P-funk (Jan 20, 2007)

ABCs said:


> Exactly the reason why I always end up back here. Good luck man.



the reason you always end up back here?  As in back in NYC?  You like that it costs so much money?


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## ABCs (Jan 20, 2007)

P-funk said:


> the reason you always end up back here?  As in back in NYC?  You like that it costs so much money?



Hahhaa, yes back in NyC, I end up back here because there is oportunity in the career I chose to pursue. It is the number on market for radio, broadcast, and audio in the world. It costing so much is a price I must pay to make more money in the long run.


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## P-funk (Jan 20, 2007)

ABCs said:


> Hahhaa, yes back in NyC, I end up back here because there is oportunity in the career I chose to pursue. It is the number on market for radio, broadcast, and audio in the world. It costing so much is a price I must pay to make more money in the long run.



oh yea.  you have to be in NYC for something like that.

What exactly do you do?


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## ABCs (Jan 20, 2007)

P-funk said:


> oh yea.  you have to be in NYC for something like that.
> 
> What exactly do you do?



I am a Master Control Op here at Fox News Networks and a part-time music producer. Couldn't be in a better place for both scenes.


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## goob (Jan 20, 2007)

ABCs said:


> I am a Master Control Op here at Fox News Networks and a part-time music producer. Couldn't be in a better place for both scenes.



A fellow MCR dude....  The master control room is great, I used to do that too.  Very unusual job, there ain't all that many of us about.
Must be absolutely manic at Fox, you must have absolutely loads of FO, vid, (et al) and sat feeds coming in and out.  Great job, who wants to work in an office?


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## ABCs (Jan 20, 2007)

goob said:


> A fellow MCR dude....  The master control room is great, I used to do that too.  Very unusual job, there ain't all that many of us about.
> Must be absolutely manic at Fox, you must have absolutely loads of FO, vid, (et al) and sat feeds coming in and out.  Great job, who wants to work in an office?



Haha nice man, fellow RMCR (I am on the radio side right now, TV is down stairs, hence the R). Yeah it;'s pretty unusual and very stressful in the beginning until you feel comfortable in your environment, after that, it is an amazing job to have. The damn news anchors think I am Jesus sometimes though but luckily I can usually fix a good 98% of problems that arise right now. Yeah, lots of REMs, sat feeds, ISDN connections, comrexes, shitty phone connections (last resort). Yeah, it took me a few stepping stones and moves around the country to get here, but I made it back in one piece and now everything is starting to pay off, screw an office, I belong in a studio.   Where do you work?


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## goob (Jan 20, 2007)

ABCs said:


> Haha nice man, fellow RMCR (I am on the radio side right now, TV is down stairs, hence the R). Yeah it;'s pretty unusual and very stressful in the beginning until you feel comfortable in your environment, after that, it is an amazing job to have. The damn news anchors think I am Jesus sometimes though but luckily I can usually fix a good 98% of problems that arise right now. Yeah, lots of REMs, sat feeds, ISDN connections, comrexes, shitty phone connections (last resort). Yeah, it took me a few stepping stones and moves around the country to get here, but I made it back in one piece and now everything is starting to pay off, screw an office, I belong in a studio.   Where do you work?



I was at a Regional TV station in Europe.  All of the above sounds very familiar. Generally it's one of those jobs where if everything is working it can be a smooth enjoyable day.  You earn your salt when it all goes wrong, you know the drill - trying to beat the clock and find a work-around before 'on-air'.


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## I Are Baboon (Jan 20, 2007)

I'm committed to a triathlon in July and the only running I've done has been on a treadmill.  I need to get my ass on some pavement.


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## ABCs (Jan 20, 2007)

goob said:


> I was at a Regional TV station in Europe.  All of the above sounds very familiar. Generally it's one of those jobs where if everything is working it can be a smooth enjoyable day.  You earn your salt when it all goes wrong, you know the drill - trying to beat the clock and find a work-around before 'on-air'.



 Haha yeah, I know what you mean. For example, right now I am at work, talking on these boards... but in a matter of minutes there could be a catestrophic meltdown in which I am responsible for making sure our millions of listeners get their content. Luckily, it's been a pretty smooth day though. 



> I'm committed to a triathlon in July and the only running I've done has been on a treadmill. I need to get my ass on some pavement.



Yeah man, in your instance, it's not about losing weight but about training for the road ahead. I would advise you get your ass out there as soon as possible.


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## yuppy (Jan 20, 2007)

real running is harder... kuz of the incline of the roads


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## slip (Jan 20, 2007)

real running is harder even when its flat yuppy, because you don't have a machine helping you and softening the impacts.


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## ABCs (Jan 20, 2007)

slip said:


> real running is harder even when its flat yuppy, because you don't have a machine helping you and softening the impacts.



Exactly, but you can go longer and you sweat more on a treadmill. My question is, is the tradeoff better?


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## Adamjs (Jan 20, 2007)

ABCs said:


> Exactly, but you can go longer and you sweat more on a treadmill. My question is, is the tradeoff better?



You said you're just going for a general improvement in your cardio - in that case I'd be using the treadmill due to its lower impact until:
- it bores the living shit out of you making you not want to keep at it; or
- until you can outrun the treadmill, whichever so happens to occur first. 

Personally i really like to mix my cardio up as much as possible. I do not want to turn into the type of person who can run a half marathon but can barely row for half a kilometre etc. There is a limit as to how much cardio crosses over - PF put up a study on that ages ago I believe, if not funk, then maybe CP? I cannot recall what the details were exactly.  

For general fitness, as long as you generally keep mixing it up, you'll generally be ok whatever you generally do


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## ABCs (Jan 20, 2007)

Adamjs said:


> For general fitness, as long as you generally keep mixing it up, you'll generally be ok whatever you generally do



Yes, I have a nice balance between cardio and weight training goes. But right now I need to maximize my cardio until I slim down a bit.


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## P-funk (Jan 20, 2007)

ABCs said:


> Exactly, but you can go longer and you sweat more on a treadmill. My question is, is the tradeoff better?



for the reasons that it is biomechanically healthier to run OFF of the treadmill, I try and have people do it as much as possible.  Obviously, most people can't do this all the time, but as much as they can I think it is best to get outside and run.


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## ABCs (Jan 20, 2007)

P-funk said:


> for the reasons that it is biomechanically healthier to run OFF of the treadmill, I try and have people do it as much as possible.  Obviously, most people can't do this all the time, but as much as they can I think it is best to get outside and run.



Yup, I am going to try to do most of my cardio outside. But right now, the Tri-State isn't the warmest place. I went and ran in the park today and almost died from the windchill. Tomorrow I will play it by ear. 

May I also add that I have been running on a treadmill for a few weeks now and my legs were sore very little in the beginning... I go run for real and my legs are on fire and it's not even morning yet and I even feel it in my upper body.


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## Witchblade (Jan 20, 2007)

Tabata protocol on a treadmill is nigh impossible -> real running for the win.


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## Adamjs (Jan 20, 2007)

^ i hear you there. Like I said before, you max out the treadmill pretty quickly if you try anything decent and eventually have to go outside.


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## ponyboy (Jan 21, 2007)

There are pros and cons to both modalities.  For people with knee/hip issues, treadmill running is easier because it does flex and take some impact - not as bad as running on pavement or asphalt.  And yes, you should set the incline at a 1% grade if you want to more closely simulate running outside because otherwise every time you stride the machine is pushing down and you are running slightly downhill.  In winter, it's much nicer to run inside and not deal with -12 temps.  I also would rather do my speed work on a treadmill because you can set the speed you actually want instead of guessing your pace on a track.  

But doing 2-3 hour runs on a treadmill is like eating broken glass - suffering.  Nothing compares to running outside overall because if you are racing, it's not going to be on a treadmill.  And you can address things like working on hills, proper foot striking and technique, doing fartlek runs (bursts of speed at irregular intervals) and proper posture while moving.  And in the spring/summer/fall it's great to be outside in the fresh air working out.  I've explored a lot of the city just by doing new routes.  

As for the muscles, remember that on a treadmill the biomechanics are different, the joints take less impact, and the stabilizers generally don't have to work as hard - that's why running outside is harder, especially for new runners.  Also most new people tend to run way too fast outside and have no idea about pacing - the treadmill controls a little more because the pace is consistent.


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## slip (Jan 21, 2007)

youll also feel like you are sweating more as you are not moving through the air and causing evaporative cooling as much as you would when running outside.


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## Yanick (Jan 21, 2007)

shit i've been hitting the treadmill hard lately thinking i'm doing well, now that you guys bring up all these issues they make perfect sense.

any ideas on pacing and minimizing joint damage while still running on a track/pavement. my two biggest problems are that i can't pace myself and am winded after about 5 min and that all of my joints ache after i run on a track/pavement. treadmill doesn't bother me so much.


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## Adamjs (Jan 22, 2007)

Yanick - have you tried running on the grass? It is usually softer underfoot than a track or the pavement. Sand is softer too, but it wreaks havoc on my knees.


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## P-funk (Jan 22, 2007)

Yanick said:


> shit i've been hitting the treadmill hard lately thinking i'm doing well, now that you guys bring up all these issues they make perfect sense.
> 
> any ideas on pacing and minimizing joint damage while still running on a track/pavement. my two biggest problems are that i can't pace myself and am winded after about 5 min and that all of my joints ache after i run on a track/pavement. treadmill doesn't bother me so much.



could be your running technique.

as far as pacing, I suck at it too.  You can do shorter intervals, like 100's, or use an RPE scale to gauge on hard you are working.


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## Adamjs (Jan 22, 2007)

^ music is also good to use to keep your pace, a beeper, a count down timer, or even another person


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## CowPimp (Jan 22, 2007)

Another difference people haven't mentioned is air resistance.  Although you wouldn't think it makes a big difference, it is definitely significant.  Obviously, the faster you run the more you have to factor this in.


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## Yanick (Jan 22, 2007)

P-funk said:


> could be your running technique.
> 
> as far as pacing, I suck at it too.  You can do shorter intervals, like 100's, or use an RPE scale to gauge on hard you are working.



well i know some of the basics like, not to run heel-to-toe, cycle the legs but where can i learn some more?

my conditioning has gone through the roof , relatively,  and i've  been hitting only the treadmill should i expect even greater gains from track running?


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## DOMS (Jan 22, 2007)

I'm no expert, but I bet that track running is more of workout than treadmill running.  With treadmill running, you just have to push your self up (more or less), but when track running must push both up and forward (at least more strenuously than when on a treadmill).


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## P-funk (Jan 22, 2007)

Yanick said:


> well i know some of the basics like, not to run heel-to-toe, cycle the legs but where can i learn some more?
> 
> my conditioning has gone through the roof , relatively,  and i've  been hitting only the treadmill should i expect even greater gains from track running?



you can expect more in the way of glute and hamstring strength as you have to push off the ground to propel yourself forward.

Here are some links for reading more:

sprinting 1

Sprinting 2


Those are pretty good.

the best stuff I have is in books unfortunatly.


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