# CJC with or w/out DAC - Does it really fucking matter?



## GearsMcGilf (Sep 5, 2012)

I mean 4real!  WTF should I pay an extra $10 for god damned DAC?


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## Jimmyinkedup (Sep 5, 2012)

The DAC (drug affinity complex) causes it to last much longer in your system. Kind of like cjc 1295 w/o dac is test suspension and cjc 1295 w/dac is test cypionate. The result of DAC is more of a constant long term increase. Some feel that a constant increase in gh with pulses caused by using ghrp 2 or ghrp 6 alongside is the way to go. Others think that using 1295 w/o DAC and ghrp2 or ghrp6 - which results solely in pulses of gh is the way to go.
It all depends on your preference.


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## Vibrant (Sep 5, 2012)

Yes it does matter. You need to get the cjc 1295 without dac not the with dac.


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## GearsMcGilf (Sep 5, 2012)

Vibrant said:


> Yes it does matter. You need to get the cjc 1295 without dac not the with dac.



Why is w/out DAC better?


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## blergs. (Sep 5, 2012)

Jimmyinkedup said:


> The DAC (drug affinity complex) causes it to last much longer in your system. Kind of like cjc 1295 w/o dac is test suspension and cjc 1295 w/dac is test cypionate. The result of DAC is more of a constant long term increase. *Some feel that a constant increase in gh with pulses caused by using ghrp 2 or ghrp 6 alongside is the way to go. Others think that using 1295 w/o DAC and ghrp2 or ghrp6 - which results solely in pulses of gh is the way to go.
> It all depends on your preference.*



VERY well put. I love both.  if you have a cost issue go for cheaper. some feel without dac is better, then some the other way around.  BOTH will work and i have used both.


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## purchaseprotein (Sep 5, 2012)

more and more researchers are beginning to research the product with DAC with great success.


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## njc (Sep 11, 2012)

If you want to risk the same side effects as running high dosed rHGH then take the one with the DAC complex.  This will cause GH bleed and with it will come chronically elevated systemic IGF-1 levels, which are clinically correlated with increased cancer risk and decreased lifespan.  So no it really doesnt matter if you care nothing about your health and everything about being ripped.


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## JerseyDevil (Sep 12, 2012)

Check out DatBtrue forum for everything you ever wanted to know about peptides


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## theCaptn' (Sep 12, 2012)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Why is w/out DAC better?



Vibrants given me some good advices bro.


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## purchaseprotein (Sep 12, 2012)

I encourage you to do some research outside this forum where experimenters are a bit more ahead of the curve then those here.


Pulsatile secretion of growth hormone ( - PubMed Mobile


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## theCaptn' (Sep 12, 2012)

JerseyDevil said:


> Check out DatBtrue forum for everything you ever wanted to know about peptides



Werd. DatBtrue is the 1st and last werd to all things 'tides


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## purchaseprotein (Sep 12, 2012)

As I said I encourage EVERYONE to do additional research.  He's not anymore apparently. 





theCaptn' said:


> Werd. DatBtrue is the 1st and last werd to all things 'tides


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## toothache (Sep 12, 2012)

purchasepeptides said:


> As I said I encourage EVERYONE to do additional research.  He's not anymore apparently.


Yep......blergs is the new peptide guru!


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## blergs. (Sep 12, 2012)

toothache said:


> Yep......blergs is the new peptide guru!



HAHAHA I guess you know me from the other forum too!

Thanks for kind comments! :-D

I would not say I am a "GURU"  but I have put in years of research into peptides (and aas and all things cell growth related) so if I can help some one with any of my info or oppinion I am sure as hell happy to do so!


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## njc (Sep 12, 2012)

purchasepeptides said:


> I encourage you to do some research outside this forum where experimenters are a bit more ahead of the curve then those here.
> 
> 
> Pulsatile secretion of growth hormone ( - PubMed Mobile



"However, basal (trough) GH levels were markedly increased (7.5-fold"

That was taken directly from this study.  This is the exact thing I was talking about in my other post.  Sure DAC will increase GH.  But when you chronically elevate basal GH (which was seenb in this study)  you cause a continous GH bleed.  This lends itself to increased systemic IGF-1 levels which, suprise suprise, were also reported in this study.  Increased systemic IGF-1 levels sound exciting to the bodybuilder but it really should not be.  Research it and you will find a whole host of negatives associated with chronically elavated IGF-1 levels, yes, including increased cancer risk and decreased life expectancy.

Furthermore, it is worth noting that systemic IGF-1 is really not that improtant to muscle growth.  But what is important is LOCAL IGF-1.  Unfortunately it is virtually impossible to measure this directly.

When you keep your GH pulsatile with NO INCREASE IN BASAL GH SECRETION you increase local IGF-1 and a host of other factors and get a nice boost in lipolysis without the side effect of suffering from an increased igf-1 profile.  Essentially, all of the goods, none of the bads.  DAC apparently may create pulsation, but it does so at the cost of also allowing an increased basal level of the hormone.  This is a bad thing.  

If I won a 20 year supply of CJC-1295 w DAC I'd throw the entire supply into the garbage.

Mod GRF-1 will keep your profile pulsatile only.  Unfortunately the CJC analog "CJC-1295" wihout DAC that is sold by most suppliers does not have the lysine side chain removed which attached the DAC to the rest of the complex.  But thats another issue with a separate set of circumstances entirely


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## JerseyDevil (Sep 13, 2012)

njc said:


> Mod GRF-1 will keep your profile pulsatile only.  Unfortunately the CJC analog "CJC-1295" wihout DAC that is sold by most suppliers does not have the lysine side chain removed which attached the DAC to the rest of the complex.  But thats another issue with a separate set of circumstances entirely


 Exactly.  One word..... TOM.  Pricey but you know what you are getting.


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## purchaseprotein (Sep 13, 2012)

It is pricey compared to MOD GRF but its only administered to test subjects every 7 days?  As for njc I greatly appreciate his views but more and more experimenters and beginning to test with the DAC version and are liking the results.

So much so that we've decided to add it to the site and are hoping to have it in inventory in the next 2-4 weeks. 

There's plenty of other information out there you only need to take the time to find it. 





JerseyDevil said:


> Exactly.  One word..... TOM.  Pricey but you know what you are getting.


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## purchaseprotein (Sep 13, 2012)

Prolonged Stimulation of Growth Hormone (GH) and Insulin-Like Growth Factor I Secretion by CJC-1295, a Long-Acting Analog of GH-Releasing Hormone, in Healthy Adults

 mean IGF-I levels remained above baseline for up to 28 d. *No serious adverse                      reactions were reported.*
*
Conclusions:* Subcutaneous administration of CJC-1295  resulted in sustained, dose-dependent increases in GH and IGF-I levels  in healthy                      adults and was safe and relatively well tolerated,  particularly at doses of 30 or 60 μg/kg. There was evidence of a  cumulative                      effect after multiple doses. These data support the  potential utility of CJC-1295 as a therapeutic agent.


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## crackrbaby (Sep 13, 2012)

Some more support for_* Dac*_ by Russianstar:

Written by Russianstar, This information is copyrited.

Firstly lets explain what the peptide CJC-1295 DAC is.

Molecular Formula: C152H252N44O42 

Molecular Weight: 3368.7

Sequence of CJC1295 (modified) without DAC: 

H-Tyr-(D)Ala-Asp-Ala-Ile-Phe-Thr-Gln-Ser-Tyr-Arg-Lys-Val-Leu-Ala- 

Gln-Leu-Ser-Ala-Arg-Lys-Leu-Leu-Gln-Asp-Ile-Leu-Ser-Arg-NH2 

CJC-1295 is a GHRH (the 44-amino acid long version) with 15 aminos removed, thus a total of 29 amino acids, and bound to DAC it is also called Drug Affinity Complex, and CJC-1295 is often referred to as GHRH with Drug Affinity Complex, this essentialy lengthens its life span.
This is how its life is lengthened.
The modification of growth hormone releasing factor with D-Ala, Gln, Ala, and Leu substitutions at positions 2, 8, 15, and 2 create a much more stable peptide with the substitution at position 2 to prevent DPP-IV cleavage, position 8 to reduce asparagine rearrangement or amide hydrolysis to aspartic acid, position 15 to enhance bioactivity, and position 27 to prevent methionine oxidation. By utilising the Drug Affinity Complex technology to GRF, the peptide selectively binds to circulating albumin after subcutaneous administration, thus prolonging its half-life.
As you may notice its basicly semorelin with 15 aminos removed. This was because semorelin degrades too rapidly to really make it a viable cost efficient option.
So they bonded it with an attached 3-maleimidopropionic acid (MPA) unit, which results in binding to albumin after exogenous injection into blood plasma, and creates a far longer half life, this is the DAC, or druf affinity complex i made referance to earlier.
Now it works by this action as its a GHRH, or growth hormone releasing hormone, In the healthy human body, large amounts of growth hormone are stored in the pituitary. The cells within the pituitary release growth hormone in response to signalling by GHRH (Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone) Then the peptide Ghrelin is (of which GHRPs - Growth Hormone Releasing Peptides - are mimetics), inhibited from releasing these stores by Somatostatin. GHRH and Ghrelin act on different populations of somatotropes (GH releasing cells). GHRP and Ghrelin increase the number of somatotropes releasing GH but not the amount released by each cell.
GHRH affects both the number of secreting cells and - moreso - the amount they are actualy able to secrete. GHRH and Ghrelin are released in specific patterns that vary depending on what the person involved is doing, or has been doing post-exercise. Now CJC-1295 DAC has been proven to stimulate slow wave sleep, and this is the period of sleep when most of your bodys repairing work takes place on muscles and tissues etc.
Now most people can and will make GH in their own pituitary gland, but not everyone can release it in the amounts needed, so from a medicinal point CJC-1295 DAC can be very beneficial.

Now for its benefits to reach full potential, somatostatin needs to be inhibited because we have just seen it inhibits gh release, so by using a compound known as an Acetylcholineesterase inhibitor, now Acetylcholineesterase inhibits acetylcholine, and Acetylcholine inhibits somatostatin, so we want Acetylcholine in abundance, so by using an Acetylcholineesterase inhibitor, we allow acetylcholine to inhibit somatostatin, so increasing the amount of gh released when using CJC-1295DAC. Got it? Ok re read that last passage.
The best of these Acetylcholineesterase inhibitors and there are lots like..
Physostigmine
Neostigmine
Pyridostigmine
Ambenonium
Demarcarium
Rivastigmine
Phenanthrene derivatives 
Galantamine
Piperidines 
Donepezil, also known as E2020
Tacrine, also known as tetrahydroaminoacridine (THA')
Edrophonium
Huperzine A
Ladostigil, 
Of the ones ive tried Huperzine A is the very best, and fairly cheap, now by adding ECGCs from green tea, as these ECGCs will transport the huperzine better so finding the receptor it needs the effects are even stronger on inhbiting the acetylcholineesterase.
Otherwise a really good one i used recently was Horny goat weed, its the only one i know that actualy increases acetylcholine as it inhibits the enzyme acetylcholinesterase.
Personally i rate this as my favourite peptide, you get nearly a constant surge in gh especialy if you add in say huperzine A, you get all the benefits of hgh, improved body composition, anabolic effects, injury recovery, improved skin, the full works, and at a very good price, far cheaper than real gh.
I have found that between 2000mcg -5000mcg a week has given me great results, increased bodymass over a 15 week period of nearly 9lbs, thats not weight gained, thats pure muscle and fat loss, You get all the same benefits of hgh, but you get them constantly, not just in one or 2 surges when you use the injections.
Now i would use this in fat deposits as i noticed a reduction when i did so quite quickly, and directly into a muscle with this is quite painfull to say the least, so thats a no no from me.
Expect to see results after just a couple of weeks, and the large amounts of igf-1 released will really add some muscle when incoorporated with a good diet and training regime.

There are no sides ive seen with cjc just positive ones except for the amazingly strong head rush you get about 20 mins after the injection, this a tell tale sign as to wether or not you have the real thing.
Remember the pulses are not as big as when you use GHRP-6, but rather its a continuous elevation of gh secretion peaking about 2 hours after the injection and staying elevated for 14 days. I use it 4 times a week in 500mcg doses and find this to be perfect for maintaining muscle when unable to train, say because of injury, and improving skin tone and health.
3500mcg is a far more anabolic dose and muscle mass will be noticeably improved after 4 weeks, and the skin will start to take on that shredded ultra thin look that gh users get before competitions.
All the benefits of real GH, less injections, less sides, a lot less money.... need i say more.

I hope you have found this information helpfull, i feel its one of the very best peptides if not the best.

Russianstars peptide rating 9/10

Kind regards RS


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## Powderguns (Sep 14, 2012)

I would go with DAC version. CjcDAC does not stop the pituitary gland from pulsing.  Only synthetic  hgh stops the natural growth hormone pulse.  Here is a study proving  such:

Pulsatile secretion of growth hormone ( - PubMed Mobile


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## Call of Ktulu (Sep 18, 2012)

Bump


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## TREMBO (Sep 20, 2012)

I'll try that shit soon... I've just ordered Horny Goat Weed + ECGCs + Huperzine A from Iherb, when they arrive I'll order my CJC DAC =)

In that period I'll keel researching the basic ghrp2 + cjc wo dac in my rat!


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## TREMBO (Sep 20, 2012)

PurchasePeptides is right, I've read in other forum some logs with DAC and people like the shit a lot... So I'll give a try.


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## purchaseprotein (Sep 21, 2013)

Dac!


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## 1HungLo (Sep 21, 2013)

Lol, pp bumped this thread exactly one year to the date. Any new research on CJC 1295 DAC vs no DAC? It looks like it comes in 2mg vials so would that be single use then? It appears to remain active for about 7 days so I wouldn't think you would need to inject more than weekly. Would taking one 2mg injection once a week for 16 weeks show a good increase in lean muscle mass? I'll probably get 10 different replys with different opinions on how to use it but that's ok, I can correlate the info.


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## jason_mazzy (Sep 21, 2013)

if Dac were anywhere near the same price I would be all over it. 20 bux for 4mg of cjc w/out dac or $30-$40 for 2mg with dac....... I wish they were more inline I would get 26 of em lol.


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## 1HungLo (Sep 21, 2013)

jason_mazzy said:


> if Dac were anywhere near the same price I would be all over it. 20 bux for 4mg of cjc w/out dac or $30-$40 for 2mg with dac....... I wish they were more inline I would get 26 of em lol.



26 lol. That would be a long enough time to show results I bet, I would sub to see that log.


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## jason_mazzy (Sep 22, 2013)

Wish there was a deal on this. I swear some day purchase peps will do a buy one get 1 free like they do with there grf-1-29.............. I'm waiting to jump on 26 of these.


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## 1HungLo (Sep 22, 2013)

I hear ya bro, I'd def be with you on that. I would love to give this stuff a try. :daydream


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## crackrbaby (Sep 23, 2013)

I'm currently running evo's DAC at 2mg per week split up into 7 doses. I take my DAC every night pre bed. I also use ghrp 2 3x's per day. I am also running a somatostatin inhibitor ( huperzine a ) with it. Now I've ran the CJC without DAC and ghrp combo, I've also ran rips at 4-5 iu per day. I can tell you, this combo is by far the best combo I have ran. I'm running a log on this stuff. In about 28-30 days I'm going to have some blood work done and I may get my IGF levels tested. I'd suggest you go over and check out my log. Ill get the IGF test done if enough people are interested in it. This may just change the way people look at this DAC. By far my favorite! ( must be ran with somatostatin inhibitor IMO )


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## Toshiro (Sep 23, 2013)

Powderguns said:


> I would go with DAC version. CjcDAC does not stop the pituitary gland from pulsing.  Only synthetic  hgh stops the natural growth hormone pulse.  Here is a study proving  such:
> 
> Pulsatile secretion of growth hormone ( - PubMed Mobile




In my research I always used a GHRH + some GHRP.  I wonder with this said (does not interrupt natural pulse) would it be better to run high doses of DAC (greater than 1MG a week) only vs DAC + GHRP? 

Example:
CJC1295 DAC at 3MG a week vs CJC1295 DAC 1MG a week with a GHRP.

Just a thought ...  

Take care,
T.


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