# 19 year old girl i know wants to do steroids....



## cheesegrater (Oct 3, 2005)

winstrol and clenbuterol....my friend kinda deals it but knows her ex and asked me if i'd do the drop.

anyway.....sh'es about the hottest girl i've ever met. 5'10, blond, blue eyes, perfect breasts, long legs.....for the life of me i cant figure out why she wants to do roids.

but assuming she's set on doing them, what should i tell her?

are there adverse side effects if a girl is on the pill?

what kind of workout program should she be on?

if fat loss is the desired result, will clen make up for a less than stellar diet?

what kind of side effects can she expect? anything else you care to add.....

as a commentary....i think it's fucking sad when a girl as young and as naturally beautiful as she is thinks she has to take steroids to look better (assuming that's what its for). Are we really that set on shallow perfection that we drive girls to do this?


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## Mudge (Oct 3, 2005)

Winstrol will likely fuck her up badly. Friend of mine was on it, lost some hair and had problems with her voice. 

WINSTROL WILL NOT MAKE YOUR FRIEND LOSE BODYFAT. CLEN WILL NOT MAKE UP FOR A SHITTY DIET, and clen is not a steroid.

T3 and/or clen for bodyfat loss, I would advise against winstrol.


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## Pirate! (Oct 3, 2005)

You should inform her of the many risks of using steroids. She should learn how to eat and train to reach her goals.


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## LAM (Oct 3, 2005)

women should stick to anabolics like anavar, deca, primo and EQ (at low doses).  

women + androgens = freaks of nature with deep voices and huge clits


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## musclepump (Oct 3, 2005)

Huge clits... eww...


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## cheesegrater (Oct 3, 2005)

can you give me specific side effects from winstrol or steroid use in general for women? (i don't know enough to comment with authority to her) i also feel like she hasn't exactly researched this as one should.

if clen isn't a steroid what is it? my friend told me it acts as a bronchodilator, which ephedrine is, at least it says so on the bottles i have. is eph safer and/ or as effective as clen?

also, if one is doing roids, or whatever clen is, for the express purpose of losing fat, assuming it works real quickly, from what i know of fat loss, it lasts longer term if it's a gradual loss rather than 5lbs a week or something....am i right? the worry would then seem to be that she does clen, gets the results, relaxes, loses the gains she made (again, last time i saw her she was as hot as it gets), does it again and again.....then the nasty side effects come into play.

i kinda want to be able to talk her out of using at all because she's young, impressionable (i have a feeling her thug bf is behind this), beautiful as is and really a very cool girl


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## LAM (Oct 3, 2005)

cheesegrater said:
			
		

> can you give me specific side effects from winstrol or steroid use in general for women?



androgens cause masculinization symptoms, deeping of the voice, increased facial hair, clitoral growth, etc.  that's why women should stick to anabolics.

why winstrol anyway ? it's such an overrated steroid.


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## cheesegrater (Oct 3, 2005)

i have no idea....i think my friend has winstrol available, she knows he sells it, he isn't exactly a research scientist on this stuff, she's trusting him.....

what does winstrol do for men?


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## LAM (Oct 3, 2005)

cheesegrater said:
			
		

> what does winstrol do for men?



barely anything...it's a mild anabolic and mild androgen.  it doesn't aromatize so it's used mainly in pre-competition cycles.  with the right diet and training it's possible to gain some LBM while dieting down when winstrol is stacked with other compounds.  winstrol will put your HDL levels down the crapper for many months.


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## Mudge (Oct 3, 2005)

cheesegrater said:
			
		

> what does winstrol do for men?



Gives you horrible cholesterol readings for a few months. Who wants to live past 40 anyway, if you want to be somebody, you die young!


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## GFR (Oct 3, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> women should stick to anabolics like anavar, deca, primo and EQ (at low doses).
> 
> women + androgens = freaks of nature with deep voices and huge clits


I agree, I have known several women who have juiced....and winstrol always got ugly......
The only cycles I knew of that didnt seem to cause any sides was 100mg of  primo a week.....deca or EQ seemed to work ok as well at that dose. 200mg might be ok but I just dont see the point


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 3, 2005)

I'm going against the grain but I have seen posted on other boards and read in anabolics 2004 that winstrol in small doses for a woman are beneficial if the dose is below 50-75mgs a week.  Winstrol carries more anabolic properties than androgenic contrary to popular belief.  I think it can be beneficial if used in small doses and monitored constantly, obviously a woman isn't going to take a dose of 100-350mgs eod of winstrol anyway and if they choose to do so the deserve the inlarged entity, deeper voice, smaller breast, and manly jaw bone.  Androgens are masulinizing properties in AAS and Anabolic is the muscle building properties, if a woman is to use AAS they need to stay away from the high androgens, unless they are going for that look.


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## cheesegrater (Oct 3, 2005)

frankly, i dont understand why women would want to use steroids anyway, under any circumstances


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## LAM (Oct 3, 2005)

cheesegrater said:
			
		

> frankly, i dont understand why women would want to use steroids anyway, under any circumstances



they use for the same reasons that men do...


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## cheesegrater (Oct 4, 2005)

to get big muscles and look like (choose one) brad pitt/ arnold schwarzenegger/ terrell owens/ the rock/ vin diesel?

don't most men take roids to add lean muscle mass, my fecetiousness aside?

from what i've noticed about women, their body issues are fat issues. while clen may help that, i could get this girl on a diet and supp program that would at least mimic clen


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## Tha Don (Oct 4, 2005)

i don't understand why women would want to juice either... its like a man getting a boob job!


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## GFR (Oct 4, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> i don't understand why women would want to juice either... its *like a man getting a boob job*!


This is my new sig      congradulation youngd this is the best quote of the week


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## bigss75 (Oct 4, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> T3 and/or clen for bodyfat loss, I would advise against winstrol.



I dont even think that she should do that. T3 will eat your muscle if your not on a cycle.


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## cheesegrater (Oct 4, 2005)

well so what should i tell her?

try and get her not to, or tell her all the potential bad things and let her decide? really promote a strict diet/ workout regimen?


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## HotMom23 (Oct 4, 2005)

How long has this girl been training?


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## HotMom23 (Oct 4, 2005)

Dude, if she doesn't want to listen... then that's her problem.. she will learn the hard way!! Roids aren't something you just jump into doing.. Especially if you are a female. Like you said it's called "doing research".


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## cheesegrater (Oct 4, 2005)

for all i know she's never "trained"....she goes to the gym, but is that really training? i'm seeing her tomorrow, but i get the feeling she's doing it as a quick fix to drop some fat....even tho, not to beat a dead horse, i dont think she needs it.


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## HotMom23 (Oct 4, 2005)

Lol.. is that why she wants to do winney? to drop fat?


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## newbiefem (Oct 4, 2005)

Winney and clen, hmm, going to get my butt kicked, but i am taking them as we speak.  As for side effects, the clen has the hardest ones to adjust to...tremors and high body temp.  As for the winney, my husband and I took the time to research it before hand (being married, this was a mutual decision that we both took the time to research and discuss, rather than jumping in head first and blindfolded.).  It is a high anabolic/low androgenic, which is why it is recommended to women.  Most males avoid it because it does not provide the intensity of gains that they desire, but the males that take it do so because the gains are quality lean mass and not water weight.  As for myself, my dosing is low, 1cc in the butt every 4 days, either that or 1/2 cc every other day.  Side effects that I have noticed are increased sex drive and a more sensitive clitoris, and more oil on my skin/breakouts.  This is week 4 of my first w/c cycle.  My breasts did become a tad smaller, but that was due to the fat loss from the clen, breasts being mostly fat anyway.  I am taking this combination because it helps me to loose the fat that has built up over the years, and to do what has always been difficult, to develop quality muscle and strength, while retaining my female shape.  (I have not the slightest desire to be a hipless breastless balding masculine looking he/she.)  It has been said that it is not for newbies, but I have had nothing more than mild side effects, and two of those I have absolutely no complaints about.


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## LAM (Oct 4, 2005)

newbiefem said:
			
		

> As for the winney, my husband and I took the time to research it before hand (being married, this was a mutual decision that we both took the time to research and discuss, rather than jumping in head first and blindfolded.).  It is a high anabolic/low androgenic, which is why it is recommended to women.



why not use deca and not have to worry about very low HDL levels for months ?


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 4, 2005)

I think the only message you should really try to send to her is that AAS/clen will never make up for a poor diet and a poor training regime.


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 4, 2005)

NEver had a prob w/ ldl


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## Stu (Oct 4, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> why not use deca and not have to worry about very low HDL levels for months ?


 exactly deca is more anabolic than winstrol and is less harsh on the liver, sounds like a no brainer to me, unless of course someone is scared of needles 


  i think inj primo would also be good for a woman


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## Stu (Oct 4, 2005)

CANIBALISTIC said:
			
		

> NEver had a prob w/ ldl


 its not just LDL levels, winstrol can wipe out HDL for months


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 4, 2005)

I know how it works, thanks and I never had a problems.  I always have blood work and take my large quantity of vitamins including flaxseed oil


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 4, 2005)

By Octopussy

Important to remember, steroids BUILD muscle, and are not for fat loss purposes. If losing some extra pounds and toning up is your goal, then there are many products out there, geared to losing weight, besides the obvious of making a change in diet and your exercise routine. 

Steroids should be considered when you have worked out for at least two years or more and are at your ideal body weight. Then any gains made by the steriod use, will be pure muscle, and your hard earned money will not be wasted. 

A great beginner cycle for women is Anavar. Anavar is one of the mildest anabolics out there, with low androgenic activity. It is known to increase strength and add quality muscle. Any women fearing side effects should definitely stick to Anavar. At a low dose of 5 mg everyday, most women see no ill side effects. A typical cycle should run from 6-8 weeks. 

Primobolan is another mild steroid. It does not convert into estrogen, which is a plus, if water retention is a worry for you. Most women respond well to a dosage of 50-100mg per week. A typical time frame to run this would be 8-10 weeks. Some side effects to watch out for include oily skin, acne and a possible increase in facial/body hair. Primobolan will give a slow, steady increase in strength and builds quality muscle. 

Winstrol can be taken orally or be injected. Winstrol should not be used for a beginner???s cycle. Most women either love winny or they hate it. It is a favorable drug to be used in a cutting cycle, when your diet is good. Winstrol builds mass and gives awesome strength gains. Side effects can occur, and things to watch out for include deepening of voice, enlarged or sensitive clitoris, and acne. Women usually take 5-10mg daily. Keeping this dose low will decrease chances of unwanted side effects. It is usually wise to split the dose up during the day, to keep blood levels on an even base. With the injection, usually 25mg every 3rd or 4th day is a normal dosing. Run this cycle for 8 weeks. Remember to take milk thistle, because this steroid is stressful on the liver. 

Deca is a popular steriod among female competitors. Even though it is only slightly androgenic, sometimes virilization can be expected. Keeping the doses low and monitoring for sides can nip these unwanted sides early. Sides will include excess facial/body hair; some women on the other hand report cases of losing hair. Once again, low dosing is key. Deca is not a fast builder of muscle, but slow, gradual gainer of muscle and strength. Women should start at around 50mg per week. If virilization is at all a concern, then possibly trying the shorter acting nadrolone Durabolin might be a option. 

If you must dabble in testosterone, then Test Prop should be the choice; only because it is in and out of your system fast. So if any unwanted sides appeared, all that you need to do is stop using, and it will be cleared from your system fast. It???s good to spread the injections out, generally using 25mg to 50mg per injection, every 5 to 7 days. This cycle should exceed 8 weeks. Sides to look for include clitoral enlargement; excess facial/body hair; deepening of voice; oily skin; acne; and increase sexual libido (not a bad side, really ) It is very important to monitor your self closely while using test. 


Women do not need to taper on their cycles of steroids; once the cycle is over, then just discontinue use (one good benefit of not having balls). Some ladies do taper when coming off, to minimize the effect of any rebounds. 
A lot of side effects brought on by anabolic steriod use is irreversible for women. Make sure you have researched and read personal testimonies before choosing your drug.


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 4, 2005)

I thought this was necessary b/c she is a pro and knows her sh*t, I agree w/ just about all execpt the test part.


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## BritChick (Oct 4, 2005)

cheesegrater said:
			
		

> i think it's fucking sad when a girl as young and as naturally beautiful as she is thinks she has to take steroids to look better (assuming that's what its for). Are we really that set on shallow perfection that we drive girls to do this?



That's what you should tell her!

19 is wayyyyy too freaking young for anyone to be considering steroids - if ever.


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## SJ69 (Oct 4, 2005)

If she's gonna do it anyway at least convince her to use anavar and/or low dose deca.  If this dude only has winstrol find another source.


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## cheesegrater (Oct 4, 2005)

HotMom23 said:
			
		

> Lol.. is that why she wants to do winney? to drop fat?



i guess.....my buddy recommended it to her....she just called and said she wants to do it


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## nikegurl (Oct 4, 2005)

make sure she is clear on the fact that the person who recommended it to her has no clue what he is talking about.  

even if she wanted to use aas for muscle building VERY few people who know what they're talking about would point her toward winny.

(he's telling her to use the wrong thing for the entirely wrong reason.   )

i truly hope she does her homework and doesn't just take it b/c some fool told her it would "work"


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## 19-chief (Oct 4, 2005)

cheesegrater said:
			
		

> i guess.....my buddy recommended it to her....she just called and said she wants to do it


your buddy's a fool... and so is this female. there are no magic bullets.


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## cheesegrater (Oct 4, 2005)

my buddy said the guy who supplies it to him got a bunch of his girl friends on it (i'm still shocked there's many women outside freakshow bodybuilders who use it) to "lean up" and it apparently worked for them.

why can't people learn to live with their damned genetics? my buddy, i think in part because i'm somewhat cut and look good, has taken sust, clen, deca, winny, HGH, stacked a variety of them........he's about my height, maybe a bit more, weighs about 20 lbs more than me (i'm on a cut and am at about the lowest i can possibly be ~185) and it's mostly in his legs, and bench's, curl's and generally does upper body exercises at similar weights to what i do.....AND i still look miles better than him after all the crap he's put in his body.


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## Tha Don (Oct 4, 2005)

CANIBALISTIC said:
			
		

> I know how it works, thanks and I never had a problems.  I always have blood work and take my large quantity of vitamins including flaxseed oil


is flaxseed better than fish oil for protecting cholesterol levels?


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## LAM (Oct 4, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> is flaxseed better than fish oil for protecting cholesterol levels?



nope


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 4, 2005)

I'm not sure about the flaxseed oil but it was recommended to me from a semi-pro buddy here in So cal.  Uhmmm but I do know fish oil is really good for you but for some reason I get stomach problems, which is a common problem since my operation.  If I had a choice I would take fish oil over flaxseed.


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## Little Wing (Oct 4, 2005)

show her your penis, tell her to take a nice long look... then tell her her clit is going to look just like it n that your's is the last penis she'll ever see once it does.


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## cheesegrater (Oct 4, 2005)

Little Wing said:
			
		

> show her your penis, tell her to take a nice long look... then tell her her clit is going to look just like it n that your's is the last penis she'll ever see once it does.



".....so ya might as well make the most of it while i'm here...."


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## nikegurl (Oct 5, 2005)

one other thing - a woman taking aas while on "the pill" is extra ridiculous in my opinion.


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 5, 2005)

Virilization is the development of masculine qualities in women.  Its cause is due to the high count of androgens in the body of a woman.  Androgens are the cause of virilization in women.  

Androgens= masculine

Deca has a higher androgen count than winstrol and isn't as anabolic as winstrol contrary to popular belief.  Personally I would not recommend deca to a woman mainly because it has a higher androgen count than so many of its other alternatives. 

Anavar has a lower androgen count than winstrol and is a higher anabolic but is expensive and is often counterfeits are produced and you don't want your girl to have an bag full of d-bol instead of anavar.  

I think primo is the best bet with winstrol if she is trying to lean up.  Primo is REALLY a mild steroid but I don't have a lot of info on it besides it was reported that Lee Preist takes it.  

The only thing that bothers me about this thread is that everyone is saying "no" she will have a penis.


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 5, 2005)

I would like to know more about the "pill" thing though... Any resources of info?


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## BCC (Oct 5, 2005)

If this was a guy everyone would be telling him he's a fucking idiot. Why is there any consideration given to this girl? She's an idiot.


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## newbiefem (Oct 5, 2005)

Cheesegrater, if your friend is set on taking Winnie, please PM me, or have HER pm me.  I have done my research, and Winnie was recommended to my husband by SEVERAL PROFESSIONAL BODYBUILDERS FOR MY USAGE. I have read the info, and know how to take it PROPERLY, and would love to give her the info.  Every steriod comes with risks, but they are magnified when taken improperly.  It is quite obvious that no one on this board has any freakin clue about Winnie, they simply heard and saw some horror stories and took that as "it will happen to everyone".  I am pretty sure that your friend has no interest in achieving the level of gains that the women bodybuilders taking the extreme dosing are after.  

As for the rest of you, well, it's quite obvious this thread has become a haven for the propagandist scare tactics that got steroids banned in this country in the first place.  Do you people do your research, or do you simply look at the women who knowingly take winnie improperly, for lack of a better term, and jump on the bandwagon that it will happen to everyone?  We all know that steroids can cause gyno and "roid rage" when used improperly in men, but how often does it happen?  Would Octopussy really have said that Winnie was safe if it wasn't?  Get a grip on reality, for the love of god, do your research and give some actual advice, instead of abusing this forum.  Winnie, according to Anabolics 2004, has an androgenic rating of 30.  Deca has one of 37.  What does this mean?  It means that Winnie is going to have *LESS* virilization than Deca.  It also has more than double the anabolic rating!  Which means BETTER QUALITY RESULTS WITH LESS OF THE MASCULINE TRAITS.  What is so hard to understand?  I am on the pill.  Guess what, I'M FREAKIN FINE!!!      
*Damnit, where is a freakin MOD when you need one?  Tough Guy, where the hell are you when you're needed? *  And Foreman, wtf, dude, you usually have your shit together, what happened?  And I'm the freakin newbie?  People come here for advice, make sure you know your shit before you start slinging info, or you guys are going to cause some SERIOUS damage.  Recommending DECA for a 19 yr old FEMALE who only wants to firm up, what the F&*k is wrong with you people!!!


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 5, 2005)

That's what I was thinking but it seems you are the only person who will agree.


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## HotMom23 (Oct 5, 2005)

The girl is 19 and is doing it for all the wrong reasons!!! She doesn't even "TRAIN". She just works out. You don't need to to roids if you want to firm up! It's called a clean diet, train hard and sleep!!! 

And not everyone here on this board is against roids.. Sorry, the research on winney isn't HIGHLY RECOMMENDED for women. Especially for this 19. Yeah, low doseage is fine but there are better things for females to take out there that is less androgenic!  Maybe you need to read this thread over. If anything everyone is saying not for this girl to jump the gun! This girl doesn't know anything! Maybe you did your research and you have trained for a little while but she hasn't.


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## LAM (Oct 5, 2005)

newbiefem said:
			
		

> Winnie, according to Anabolics 2004, has an androgenic rating of 30.  Deca has one of 37.  What does this mean?  It means that Winnie is going to have *LESS* virilization than Deca.  It also has more than double the anabolic rating!



real world results do not show that


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## Little Wing (Oct 5, 2005)

newbiefem said:
			
		

> *LESS* virilization


 less still means a risk and really this is a 19 yr old girl who obviously is not a rocket scientist, i doubt very much she will do any significant research on her own even tho she is considering putting this shit in her body. she ought to know the risks and to most women just the thought of developing a creepy looking "male trait" will steer them clear. she's too young n looking for the wrong thing, a quick fix, carefully explaining things to her about how n why these drugs do what they do is going to go in one ear n out the other. she is already on her way to "abusing" whatever it is she decides to take you can tell that from her mind set.


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## BCC (Oct 5, 2005)

newbiefem said:
			
		

> Cheesegrater, if your friend is set on taking Winnie, please PM me, or have HER pm me.  I have done my research, and Winnie was recommended to my husband by SEVERAL PROFESSIONAL BODYBUILDERS FOR MY USAGE. I have read the info, and know how to take it PROPERLY, and would love to give her the info.  Every steriod comes with risks, but they are magnified when taken improperly.  It is quite obvious that no one on this board has any freakin clue about Winnie, they simply heard and saw some horror stories and took that as "it will happen to everyone".  I am pretty sure that your friend has no interest in achieving the level of gains that the women bodybuilders taking the extreme dosing are after.
> 
> As for the rest of you, well, it's quite obvious this thread has become a haven for the propagandist scare tactics that got steroids banned in this country in the first place.  Do you people do your research, or do you simply look at the women who knowingly take winnie improperly, for lack of a better term, and jump on the bandwagon that it will happen to everyone?  We all know that steroids can cause gyno and "roid rage" when used improperly in men, but how often does it happen?  Would Octopussy really have said that Winnie was safe if it wasn't?  Get a grip on reality, for the love of god, do your research and give some actual advice, instead of abusing this forum.  Winnie, according to Anabolics 2004, has an androgenic rating of 30.  Deca has one of 37.  What does this mean?  It means that Winnie is going to have *LESS* virilization than Deca.  It also has more than double the anabolic rating!  Which means BETTER QUALITY RESULTS WITH LESS OF THE MASCULINE TRAITS.  What is so hard to understand?  I am on the pill.  Guess what, I'M FREAKIN FINE!!!
> *Damnit, where is a freakin MOD when you need one?  Tough Guy, where the hell are you when you're needed? *  And Foreman, wtf, dude, you usually have your shit together, what happened?  And I'm the freakin newbie?  People come here for advice, make sure you know your shit before you start slinging info, or you guys are going to cause some SERIOUS damage.  Recommending DECA for a 19 yr old FEMALE who only wants to firm up, what the F&*k is wrong with you people!!!



OH MY GOD! SEVERAL PROFESSIONAL BODYBUILDERS!?!?! THEY MUST KNOW EVERYTHING!!!!!

This summer I had a professional bodybuilder tell me tamoxifen was an anti-aromatase and that it does nothing to help HDL. 

And Anabolics 2004, please. 

Winstrol is without a doubt one of the poorest steroids used concerning health. What it does to your joints and cholesterol just aren't worth it.


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## HotMom23 (Oct 5, 2005)

Lol!!!


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## GFR (Oct 5, 2005)

BCC said:
			
		

> If this was a guy everyone would be telling him he's a fucking idiot. Why is there any consideration given to this girl? *She's an idiot*.


*Great post!!!*

Its called a double standard......
It is 10X worse for a woman of any age to take steroids then a teenage boy!

So fuck her......let her make her own mistakes and have to live with them......Total idiot.


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## ihateschoolmt (Oct 5, 2005)

NVM.


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## BCC (Oct 5, 2005)

What he is saying is it *is* a double standard and it *is* worse for women to take steroids.


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 5, 2005)

Good point.  Anyhow, getting back on point their are always other methods and avenues one can take.  I agree that no one should jump the gun but obviously everyone is using a scare tactic to prevent this girl from using AAS..  I also agree that their are other AAS suitable for a woman and some that are softer but winstrol shouldn't be bashed if it's based on preference but I must agree with the joints but I take it with EQ to prevent all that.

I agree 19 is way to young for a man or woman to use AAS.  IT's also obvious that she is considering it and willing to use, which could also mean that it is set in stone.  Which assuming this is true, she will use and if she has the intent and sources I think the next best thing to do would be to show her the best doses and what to look for. 

I'm not sure what "real-world results" means but it sounds like bathroom chemistry    I would trust an educated doctor over someone w/ 90% experience & 10% actual knowledge.


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## LAM (Oct 5, 2005)

CANIBALISTIC said:
			
		

> I'm not sure what "real-world results" means but it sounds like bathroom chemistry    I would trust an educated doctor over someone w/ 90% experience & 10% actual knowledge.



you are obviously not familiar with engineering then.  what is written in a book is often not what occurs in the real world, meaning under actual circumstances.  saying that winstrol is more anabolic than deca is laughable.  I can get testimony from hundreds AAS users that would say the exact opposite


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 5, 2005)

I second that but also more androgenic which is what I was saying bud.


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## LAM (Oct 5, 2005)

CANIBALISTIC said:
			
		

> I second that but also more androgenic which is what I was saying bud.



you have much to learn. winstrol IS a DHT derivative it's androgenic properties are greater than deca


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 5, 2005)

Sorry lam I have so many books to support my argument that I can only say that I disagree,


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 5, 2005)

I love deca but I wouldn't recommend it for a woman


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## LAM (Oct 5, 2005)

CANIBALISTIC said:
			
		

> Sorry lam I have so many books to support my argument that I can only say that I disagree,



regardless...winstrol is a DHT derivative which means it's an ANDROGEN that also happens to have some mild anabolic properties


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## GFR (Oct 5, 2005)

Don't know if it matters but I have never heard of anyone going bald from deca......but have heard of many having that problem from Winny......that alone sounds like its more androgenic


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## nikegurl (Oct 5, 2005)

i'm going to cut and paste some info by women with first hand winny experience (and then i give up)

**********
That has got to be one of the worst ones to take too, I had the same prob a few years back only it was the tabs, either way my voice started to sound funny and squeak. It took awhile but it finally dropped, not bad but I notice it and others did too. So tell her unless she wants some noticeable side effects, STOP taking it, even if she stops now she still might get sides. I think they call winstrol the snake bite drug or something cause the sides can sneak up on you. It's not like anavar where if you stop taking it it's out of your system quick.
**********
I'll just share my experience with winny tabs (Zambon) my boyfriend said it was fine and my dumb ass believed him and took the stuff. Keep in mind I did it 3 1/2 years ago, but here's what happened (only a couple to a few 2 mg tabs a day for not a long period of time) voice changed, not incredibly deep but deeper than it was (I still sound like a girl but I don't think I'll ever be able to scream again), clit enlargement, and achy knees (which every now and then still bothers me). So tell your friend that, and that's only from a few 2mg tabs, doesn't sound like much huh? Enough to do some damage. If she is dead set on it, the only one I would even consider taking is anavar. If she wants winny tell her to be prepared to tell family and friends that she has a cold for about a year (that's what I had to do while my voice changed).
**********
Winstrol is a strange drug. Because it is so unpredictable I will not take it and neither will my girlfriend.

It's pretty damn androgenic for one, causing clitoral growth, deep voice and body hair. Two, it interferes with development of healthy connective tissue. Three it reduces cortisol to a point that is unhealthy for joints, causing interstitial fluid to become more viscous and lower in volume, leading to joint pain.
**********
this is very true....some women get all the nasty sides, some dont at all or very little....some get bloated, others get real hard and ripped....its just one of those things that if you are female and you are going to try it, you should start very light and work your way up to a low dosage..
**********


and for the last time....aas are not fat burners!  they may help repartition fat but only when training and diet are in perfect order (and i doubt either is the case with this person)


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 5, 2005)

You have it reversed,  it's a low andrgogenic and higher anabolic.  FYI Dude you REALLY need to do your research and look at other sources of info.  I agree that winstrol has negative effects but to recommend deca over winstrol is plain stupid.  I just wanted to add that I love deca and recommend it but like any AAS everything should be monitored.  And the only reason I'm against deca for a woman is b/c of the water retention and bloating.  Balding doesn't always mean androgenic it a change in the production of one's natural production of test, if you have a predisposition any AAS can onset balding.  

Also, a derative means that the structure of chemical changes (by engineering) meaning it no longer carries the same properties and charateristics b/c it's a chemical change to suite a purpose.


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 5, 2005)

nikegurl said:
			
		

> **********
> this is very true....some women get all the nasty sides, some dont at all or very little....some get bloated, others get real hard and ripped....its just one of those things that if you are female and you are going to try it, you should start very light and work your way up to a low dosage..
> **********/QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## cheesegrater (Oct 5, 2005)

newbiefem said:
			
		

> Cheesegrater, if your friend is set on taking Winnie, please PM me, or have HER pm me.  I have done my research, and Winnie was recommended to my husband by SEVERAL PROFESSIONAL BODYBUILDERS FOR MY USAGE. I have read the info, and know how to take it PROPERLY, and would love to give her the info.  Every steriod comes with risks, but they are magnified when taken improperly.  It is quite obvious that no one on this board has any freakin clue about Winnie, they simply heard and saw some horror stories and took that as "it will happen to everyone".  I am pretty sure that your friend has no interest in achieving the level of gains that the women bodybuilders taking the extreme dosing are after.
> 
> As for the rest of you, well, it's quite obvious this thread has become a haven for the propagandist scare tactics that got steroids banned in this country in the first place.  Do you people do your research, or do you simply look at the women who knowingly take winnie improperly, for lack of a better term, and jump on the bandwagon that it will happen to everyone?  We all know that steroids can cause gyno and "roid rage" when used improperly in men, but how often does it happen?  Would Octopussy really have said that Winnie was safe if it wasn't?  Get a grip on reality, for the love of god, do your research and give some actual advice, instead of abusing this forum.  Winnie, according to Anabolics 2004, has an androgenic rating of 30.  Deca has one of 37.  What does this mean?  It means that Winnie is going to have *LESS* virilization than Deca.  It also has more than double the anabolic rating!  Which means BETTER QUALITY RESULTS WITH LESS OF THE MASCULINE TRAITS.  What is so hard to understand?  I am on the pill.  Guess what, I'M FREAKIN FINE!!!
> *Damnit, where is a freakin MOD when you need one?  Tough Guy, where the hell are you when you're needed? *  And Foreman, wtf, dude, you usually have your shit together, what happened?  And I'm the freakin newbie?  People come here for advice, make sure you know your shit before you start slinging info, or you guys are going to cause some SERIOUS damage.  Recommending DECA for a 19 yr old FEMALE who only wants to firm up, what the F&*k is wrong with you people!!!



i'll see what she says.....but honestly, the more important question i'm trying to raise is the psychological issue of her having to feel like steroids is the only thing that can make her feel better about herself

again, she's 19-NINETEEN-(would anyone be recommending roids to a 19 year old boy if he was just wanting to look better?) and already stunningly beautiful.

i get doing roids for performance purposes in sports (tho i dont agree with it) or for bodybuilding competitions by either male or female. What i don't get is why someone who is a casual lifter (i'd define casual as anyone who isn't a pro bodybuilder, powerlifter or otherwise makes money off their body) either male or female, would use steroids, moreso with the female.

steroids won't make my buddy, who's 5'7ish and sorta stubby, look like brad pitt, it'll just bulk him up. if one wants to lean up, i think, and have been told on here, it's best done naturally, and i'm current, ongoing proof that it works, taking nothing stronger than ephedrine and lipo6/ lipoderm. (yah i know the arguments on eph, but in reality it just makes your heart beat a little faster.....completely harmless and void of side effects if you have no heart issues and use proper amounts)

why the quick fix of steroids? is it so important to joe lifter at world health club to be able to lift 300lbs on bench that he'll take stuff that's precribed by veterinarians in order to do it? ( all i know is stuff my buddy runs has pictures of fucking horses on it, with Czech writing) what possible benefit arises from getting that goal NOW rather than working at it and getting it 6 months from now? why does someone care that much about how they look, how much they lift, how big they are, etc, that they're willing to potentially ruin their bodies system in the process?

now, i should say that i've been researching whether to self-prescribe some steroid for myself in order to boost my testosterone for the sake of social assertiveness and general aggressiveness. i've noticed recently that people have been bitching about me being too passive in everything from sports to girls. it arose from a general depression that floored me and i've just noticed a lack of testosterone effects in my body since then.....but i dont want to get big and would balk at using roids if one of the side effects was putting on 20 lbs of muscle, if only because i look damn good right now.

i guess what i'm ranting against is how society has made all of us so damn vain that we're willing to do anything to look perfect, even if it obviously isn't within our genetic makeup to be so.


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## nikegurl (Oct 5, 2005)

while i agree with it - i don't think it applies to the particular woman we're talking about here since she doesn't even train.  i think it's good advice for a woman about to embark on a first cycle after at least 2 years of damn hard training and great nutrition.  in my personal opinion it should be left to competitors.  but i would hope everyone here would agree a woman who barely works out and is looking at winny for fat loss is "misguided" (a.k.a.  a dumbass  )


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## cheesegrater (Oct 5, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> *Great post!!!*
> 
> Its called a double standard......
> It is 10X worse for a woman of any age to take steroids then a teenage boy!
> ...



well, honestly, saying just fuck her, let her do it to herself i can't let myself do.....aside from her being too young, i really like her. she's a great girl who has a lot going for her. if i can help make a better decision without really killing myself over it, i can't not do it.


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## LAM (Oct 5, 2005)

CANIBALISTIC said:
			
		

> You have it reversed,  it's a low andrgogenic and higher anabolic.  FYI Dude you REALLY need to do your research and look at other sources of info.  I agree that winstrol has negative effects but to recommend deca over winstrol is plain stupid.



yea, "I'm" the one who needs to do more research...  

I get my information from medical studies and text not the latest "steroid bible" sold on the net.  winstrol is better to use than deca !


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 5, 2005)

For men.  So do I...


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 5, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> yea, "I'm" the one who needs to do more research...
> 
> I get my information from medical studies and text not the latest "steroid bible" sold on the net.  winstrol is better to use than deca !




I hope your not serious.


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## CANIBALISTIC (Oct 5, 2005)

nikegurl said:
			
		

> while i agree with it - i don't think it applies to the particular woman we're talking about here since she doesn't even train.  i think it's good advice for a woman about to embark on a first cycle after at least 2 years of damn hard training and great nutrition.  in my personal opinion it should be left to competitors.  but i would hope everyone here would agree a woman who barely works out and is looking at winny for fat loss is "misguided" (a.k.a.  a dumbass  )


 
Yes, this is true


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