# Cardio and Fat loss?



## kvyd (Aug 3, 2004)

Why does it seem that most people think cardio is a must to lose fat?  Personally I find it much easier to manipulate diet.  Because essentially with cardio arnt you trying to create more calories burned vs taken in, in that case just take in less calories...especially if you dont like cardio.

If anyone thinks im completly wrong id like to know, and if someone knows why its better to do cardio than simply eat less please tell me.


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## Jodi (Aug 3, 2004)

I completely agree.  Up until a few weeks ago I didn't do any cardio.  Hell, last year when I was preparing for my competition I didn't do ANY cardio until 4 weeks before my show.  Cardio for fat loss is over rated.  Unfortunately because I've been forced to drop the intensity and volume of my workouts so I needed to find another way to burn cals and I've added a few days a week of cardio in.  I don't mind it and I'm actually enjoying my runs outside a bit.

I think for those with cadiovascular problems its a must and I am changing my ways a bit and I'm starting to feel that everyone should do some for the cardiovascular benefit.  However, I do NOT feel it is needed for fat loss and diet is the number one key factor for fat loss.


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## kvyd (Aug 3, 2004)

But for cardio vascular excercise I feel a good high intensity resistance workout gets my heart working.


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## Jodi (Aug 3, 2004)

Leg Day!


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## HoldDaMayo (Aug 3, 2004)

circuit training > cardio


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## atherjen (Aug 4, 2004)

> I think for those with cadiovascular problems its a must and I am changing my ways a bit and I'm starting to feel that everyone should do some for the cardiovascular benefit. However, I do NOT feel it is needed for fat loss and diet is the number one key factor for fat loss.



 I couldnt agree more, I do sprints and cardio not for fat loss purposes but for overall health.. and not to mention I enjoy them


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## Flex (Aug 4, 2004)

Jodi said:
			
		

> I think for those with cadiovascular problems its a must. I'm starting to feel that everyone should do some for the cardiovascular benefit.  However, I do NOT feel it is needed for fat loss and diet is the number one key factor for fat loss.



Ditto.

Cardio is overrated for fat loss. I quit drinking over a month and a half ago and i've never been so lean. 

but cardio is neccesary for obvious health benefits/reasons....


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## Determination (Aug 4, 2004)

ugh...

it's all to be looked at in an individual basis...some people can get great results with no cardio whatsoever...for others to get great results they absolutely need to do cardio

If you're already an active person, you're more than likely not going to need any cardio as long as your diet's right and you lift weights

If outside the gym, you sit on your ass all day long...even if you account for that in your diet, doing cardio and upping your calories due to the increased activity levels is more than likely going to get you better results...specially if you're overweight

it also depends in what stage you're at, etc etc etc....so many different things that play into this...what may be "overrated" to you may be be essential for someone else.

do what gets you the best results for you. 

personally, when I'm not working, I do cardio and I get much better results than if I don't. Calorie intake right now when doing that is around 2300.

When I AM working, I don't even bother cause my job is already physically demanding and gives me a pretty good workout in itself. I eat at least 2800 cals when that's the case. (both numbers are 500 away from maint., cycle cals up to maint every 3-4 days)


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## Determination (Aug 4, 2004)

overall...i think people are more comfortable with the idea of eating less and being less active for fat loss

than eating more and purposely increasing their activity levels with cardio/sports/etc 

less work, plus there's the whole psychological "how am I supposed to get leaner by eating more??" thing...


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## Jodi (Aug 4, 2004)

No necessarily.  For fat loss you want to rely on your muscle.  You want your body to burn fat for you.  So, for those fairly lean, especially those competing, doing cardio can be detrimental and cause muscle loss.  This is why some would be better off eating less and letting their built up muscle burn the extra calories for them.

For very overweight people I think cardio is a mandatory and not just for fat loss but for cardiovascular purposes.


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## Determination (Aug 4, 2004)

Jodi said:
			
		

> No necessarily.  For fat loss you want to rely on your muscle.  You want your body to burn fat for you.  So, for those fairly lean, especially those competing, doing cardio can be detrimental and cause muscle loss.  This is why some would be better off eating less and letting their built up muscle burn the extra calories for them.
> 
> For very overweight people I think cardio is a mandatory and not just for fat loss but for cardiovascular purposes.



that's exactly the point I made in the first post...it all comes down to the individual. Which is why I don't see the point of saying cardio is "overrated" and things like that. 

If anything is overrated is the idea that cardio causes you to lose your hard earned muscle...specially among those outside the realm of competitive bodybuilding. Will too much cardio on too low a deficit cause this? Of course!

Most of the time, it's either excessive cardio or not eating enough that causes muscle loss. If one does a individually proper amount of cardio and compensates for it in their diet...there should be no worries. 

I look at cardio as simply a way to increase your activity levels in order to further boost your metabolism when one is not already fairly active. If one is overweight and has a slow metabolism, then it wouldn't be wise to just blow off doing cardio, obviously.

the key word in the second post was "overall"...since "overall," most people trying to lose weight aren't competitive bodybuilders and are definitely most comfortable with the idea of just eating less and doing less....than eating more and doing more...for fat loss.


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## kvyd (Aug 4, 2004)

Odds are likely that in my 4-5 day a week of weight lifting.  That im gettin enough cardio stimulation.  So lets get past that.  But in terms of burning muscle when people do extended periods of cardio yes muscle will be turn over unless you eat enough before and after, which leads me to my basic point.... Why not just mess with your diet?


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## Determination (Aug 4, 2004)

again, it all depends. 

If you're 250 pounds at 30% body fat and you have a desk job and outside the gym all you do is sit around...

simply eating less will not be as effective as eating slightly less and being more active

if being more active means doing cardio, so be it. 

If you go to school, work and do a sport and aren't overweight...all you'll need to do is create a calorie deficit and you'll be fine.

Eating more and doing more don't cancel each other out...(to a certain extent of course) they work to further boost your metaboslim. 

A person with a slow metabolism and an inactive life outside the gym will have to approach things differently than an active person with a fast metabolism


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## Jodi (Aug 4, 2004)

An overweight individual should be lifting weights and not just doing cardio.  It is still the building muscle that is going to speed up their metabolism much faster than any cardio will ever do.  Cardio is used to create a caloric deficit and or help with cardiovascular issues.  Cardio has very little effect on increasing your metabolism, only proper weight training will make significant changes to ones metabolism.


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## NEW_IN_THE_GAME (Aug 4, 2004)

I Used To Stay At The Same Cals - Take Animal Cuts - Tight - And Taraxatone. And Lift Weights 2 Hours A Day - And Would Drop 5-10 In 3 Weeks
- Now I Wanna Get Super Ripped So Next Cut I Am Gonna Cardio


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## Determination (Aug 4, 2004)

Jodi said:
			
		

> Cardio has very little effect on increasing your metabolism, only proper weight training will make significant changes to ones metabolism.



That is only if you choose to do one or the other exclusively. Bulding muscle is clearly the best way to get the body burning that fat. If the same overweight person lifts weights along with cardio, the results will be even better than just doing weights (as long as the proper diet is in place of course).

My whole point is that, if you're already lifting weights, being more active outside the gym and eating more is better than being sedentary and eating less. The upping of calories will not cancel the increase in activity out. The active person will see far greater results than the person that is just eating less and sitting on their ass all day when they're not working out.

This again, depends on the individual...but it's a rule of thumb for "most people"


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## Premo55 (Aug 4, 2004)

I actually agree with Determination to a degree this time. I'm in summer school right now and on my ass WAY too much for my own liking. During the school year I'm a lot more active, so really from a psychological standpoint it really helps me to get out and do some low to mid intensity cardio when I don't have work or school. It also really helps of course that I get to eat more food. I think it's all indvidual preference. If you're comfortable with not being very active outside of the weight room and enjoy being on extreme caloric deficits then I suppose that's the way to go. Personally I've always been an athlete so it worries me when I'm not doing something active all the time. Again, I think the psychological aspect really comes into play here...ie you get to eat more food and be more satiated and for people who are active by nature, it helps a lot

Peace.


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## Jodi (Aug 4, 2004)

Of course it will help because it means you are burning more calories but back to the original question................It is still not needed for fat loss.  Building muscle is far superior to manipulate the metabolism and for those that are somewhat lean then diet manipulation is the best option so to retain LBM.


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## truth (Aug 4, 2004)

HoldDaMayo said:
			
		

> circuit training > cardio


motherfuckin' word.

this is my second week of circuit training..i'm loving it, and it really gets you pumped

great training program when you want to lean out


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## topolo (Aug 21, 2004)

If I am not mistaken, and I rarely am, HIIT can speed up your metabolism


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## jstar (Aug 22, 2004)

topolo said:
			
		

> If I am not mistaken, and I rarely am, HIIT can speed up your metabolism





It will speed up your metabolism for hours afterwards, HIIT cardio produces a longer "afterburn" effect than staedy-state cardio, as does weight training. But the afterburn is not permanent; building muscle through weight training is the only way to permanently increase your metabolism.

I have tried both avenues on the great cardio debate. Last year when I began my "offseason" I gave up cardio for a couple months (somehow I thought it was pointless since I was "bulking"). After 2 months I incorporated cardio back into my regimen and felt cardio-vascularly challenged! I never felt so out of shape and out of breath...not to mention I believe that I get a runner's high from the endorphins when I am doing cardio that I missed out on for those 2 months. ....I have also tried to rely on extra cardio to make up for my cheating...that DOES NOT work at all!!! So I would have to agree that all the cardio in the world means nothing unless your diet is in order 1st and foremost. Weight training is definitely a priority over cardio too for fat loss.  I don't think cardio is necessary for everybody but for those with more of an endomorphic bodytype (such as myself) it is a must! I have an office job and most days my only opportunity to get physical activity is at the gym. I don't use cardio as the main tool for fat loss but as a secondary tool in addition to my diet and training. I used to just do longer, steady-state, for my cardio but now I am learning that it is just as effective, if not more effective, to use shorter HIIT sessions in place of the long, steady-state boring cardio.  

I think that you should only do as little cardio as you need to do and rely more on diet and training to transform your body. Personally, I know I need to do some cardio but that if I do too much I will feel burnt out and not be able to lift as much...if I get to that point then I know I am doing too much. It is all about finding a happy medium - doing enough to provide me with more energy and to relieve stress and burn fat - but not so much that it interferes with my ability to rest and recover from my weight training workouts.


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## LAM (Aug 22, 2004)

kvyd said:
			
		

> Why does it seem that most people think cardio is a must to lose fat?



because most people don't know jack about human biology...a lot of people read an article on health & fitness and all of a sudden they become an expert on the subject...


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## Dale Mabry (Aug 23, 2004)

Hmmmm, here is my spin...

First, PROPER cardiovascular exercise for fat loss will cause the body to use oxygen more efficiently, thus leading to more fat cals burned.  Also, when you do long duration cardio, your body produces more of the enzymes needed to produce energy aerobically, which will also enhance fat loss.  HIIT on the other hand will cause the body to produce more of the enzymes that produce energy anaerobically, allowing you to be more explosive.


Now for the performance benefits.  The folks over at Westside Barbell REALLY push for cardiovasular exercise.  Louie Simmons is a genius and realized that with alot of the Westside routines, you need a very advanced level of cardiovascular conditioning, a level most people do not have.  I believe one of the caveats he puts on whether or not someoolne should do a Westside routine is their cardiovascular level.  I have seen a bunch of people here at UPENN do them and none of them do it properly.  Most take too much of a rest, only do half routines, or have shit ass form.  If you are taking too much rest, you don't have the level of cardio fitness you need.  I imagine if they even dropped the weight to a weight they could handle they still wouldn't do it right.  the Westside parameters are THE way to do the Westside routines.  They have been researched by Westside for years, so your theory that "15 extra seconds of rest won't make a difference" is not valid.

Now that I have stated all of that, let's define Proper Cardiovascular Training.  Proper Cardiovascular training is the type of cardiovascualr training that less than 1% of the population actually does.  It is where you shave time off of your distance run or whatever on at least a weekly basis.  When you get to an intensity to where you cannot progress, you are either ripped as hell, a World Class runner, overtraining, or lazy.  It IS NOT the type of cardio you do at Bally's while watching TV, chatting to the chick next to you, reading a magazine, or chatting on your cell phone.


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## bulletproof1 (Aug 23, 2004)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Hmmmm, here is my spin...
> 
> First, PROPER cardiovascular exercise for fat loss will cause the body to use oxygen more efficiently, thus leading to more fat cals burned.  Also, when you do long duration cardio, your body produces more of the enzymes needed to produce energy aerobically, which will also enhance fat loss.  HIIT on the other hand will cause the body to produce more of the enzymes that produce energy anaerobically, allowing you to be more explosive.
> 
> ...



are you drunk dale? ive never seen you type more than 2 sentences at a time.


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## Dale Mabry (Aug 23, 2004)

I's tries to post about actualy topics in fitness related areas once or twice a month, to shake things up.


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## annarbor930 (Aug 23, 2004)

Do you think its possible that if you were to do light cardio (in the fat burning zone) in the morning on an empty stomach and bulked during the day and lifted in the evening, that you might be able to shed more fat than muscle while doing light cardio, and then gain more muscle than fat by eating clean and lifting?  Thus providing a slight fat loss with small muscle gain at the same time.  It's probably crazy I know


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## joey2005 (Aug 23, 2004)

I have the same question. .. lol


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## LAM (Aug 23, 2004)

annarbor930 said:
			
		

> Do you think its possible that if you were to do light cardio (in the fat burning zone) in the morning on an empty stomach and bulked during the day and lifted in the evening, that you might be able to shed more fat than muscle while doing light cardio, and then gain more muscle than fat by eating clean and lifting?  Thus providing a slight fat loss with small muscle gain at the same time.  It's probably crazy I know



you would be better of doing 2-3 sessions of HIIT or Max OT cardio a week on non-weight training days to keep bf under control while bulking...


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## joey2005 (Aug 23, 2004)

yes but wouldnt it be good to run some HIIT right when you get up on a compltely empty stomach so you dont use muscle as energy? especially for the really fat ppl


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## LAM (Aug 23, 2004)

joey2005 said:
			
		

> yes but wouldnt it be good to run some HIIT right when you get up on a compltely empty stomach so you dont use muscle as energy? especially for the really fat ppl



your body is catabolic when you wake up and cortisol levels are elevated.  exercising when the body has a negative protein balance only further increases catabolic activity.  so you will be burning more muscle by performing any type exercise on an completely empty stomach first thing in the am...


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## annarbor930 (Aug 23, 2004)

I agree that in the morning you body is in a catabolic state.  But it seems like if you do the right type of cardio that you would burn more fat than muscle.  Then at night when you lift and have excess calories you body will favor muscle growth slightly over fat growth.  Therefore in the long run you could burn fat and build muscle at the same time.  

I can dream can't I!


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