# Can someone settle the "no carbs late at night" argument?



## ArnoldsProtege (Jul 17, 2009)

My friend is adamant that carbs late at night=bad. I used to follow this idea, and it makes sense. However, I have heard many people, including those on this board, counter that argument. People say that its not what you eat and when, its calories in vs calories out. If I understand that argument, then if someone whos BMR is 2000 calories has eaten 1600 calories thus far, and then eats a peanut butter sandwich (lets say its 400 calories for arguments sake), then he wouldnt gain weight, regaurdless of the unused carbohydrates. Thats how I see the argument anyway...?

So can someone please settle this? I have arguments all the time about it with my friend, but not because I disagree completely , but because I _heard_ otherwise (I still avoid carbs late at night out of fear).

Anyone wanna take a stab at it, from a scientific standpoint?


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## Built (Jul 17, 2009)

Well, there is no rationale for why it would matter. There's also no evidence for it. 

Meal frequency and timing don't influence weight gain or loss. 

Now if you OVER-eat at night that's a different story. Since most people don't weigh their food, this is probably an easy way for people to lose weight. 

For me, since carbs make me hungry, I usually eat them at night, then go to bed. Stops me from eating any more. 

Perhaps ask your friends for reasons why they think it matters. 
Post them up here and we'll shoot them down one at a time, k?


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## ArnoldsProtege (Jul 17, 2009)

He says that Carbohydrates are more readilly stored as fat when they are not used for energy (an argument I have heard before). 

So, he thinks that when I eat a sandwich before bed, it is automatically being stored as fat regaurdless of wether I am in a caloric deficit. He claims its "just science".


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## Yanick (Jul 17, 2009)

ArnoldsProtege said:


> He says that Carbohydrates are more readilly stored as fat *when they are not used for energy (an argument I have heard before).
> 
> So, he thinks that when I eat a sandwich before bed, it is automatically being stored as fat regaurdless of wether I am in a caloric deficit. He claims its "just science".*


*

You're friend is missing the forest for the trees. Lets make a bank analogy. Say throughout the day one day I have to go buy some stuff, then sell it etc and I keep running to the bank to take money out and put money in. Lets say in the beginning of the day I have $2000 (body fat) in the bank. In the morning I put in $800 (eat) then I take it out a few hours later (activity), then I put in another 500 (eat) then take it out a few hours later (activity) then I put in 600 (eat) and then I take out 900 (activity) in the next few hours. At the end of the day, I have $1700 (less body fat) because I'm in a 300 deficit for the day. No matter how much I may plead with the bank or the lenders to let me have that 300 (insulin suppressing GH- which I suppose is this kids reason for not eating carbs at night) its not going to happen because I spent it. Now this is very much simplified but illustrates that Physics (energy cannot be created or destroyed) beats physiology. Thats science for him.*


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## Built (Jul 17, 2009)

ArnoldsProtege said:


> He says that Carbohydrates are more readilly stored as fat when they are not used for energy (an argument I have heard before).
> 
> So, he thinks that when I eat a sandwich before bed, it is automatically being stored as fat regaurdless of wether I am in a caloric deficit. He claims its "just science".


It is. 

And it will be retrieved when you require the calories. 

What's the problem?


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## Merkaba (Jul 18, 2009)

Built said:


> It is.
> 
> And it will be retrieved when you require the calories.
> 
> What's the problem?



Exactly.  Tell your friends its an accumulative  day to day thing and that the overall calories is what matters mostly. Fat loss is not finite.  Youre always storing and burning it especially if youre in a proper deficit.


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## CarolinaMom (Jul 31, 2009)

Insulin blocks HGH.  Night time is a growth and recovery period so it makes sense to me.  I will eat protein anytime but I cut out the carbs about 3-4 hours before bed.  My son's doctor said not to allow him any carbs after 5 oclock if I want him to grow.


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## largepkg (Jul 31, 2009)

CarolinaMom said:


> Insulin blocks HGH.  Night time is a growth and recovery period so it makes sense to me.  I will eat protein anytime but I cut out the carbs about 3-4 hours before bed.  My son's doctor said not to allow him any carbs after 5 oclock if I want him to grow.



Dear god! Any studies to back this up?


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## tucker01 (Jul 31, 2009)

Guess I shouldn't be over 6'


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## largepkg (Jul 31, 2009)

Maybe that's why I only have a 2'' pecker?


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## Built (Jul 31, 2009)

Insulin does block endogenous GH - that's why GH blood testing is done fasted.

That being said, I can't see how the small physiologic increase of nocturnal GH could have an effect. I would think the more important aspect would be to control estrogen so that the growth plates aren't affected. 

Meh. I don't know enough about this to argue intelligently. Anyone else got anything?


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## Gazhole (Jul 31, 2009)

Built said:


> Anyone else got anything?



I have a bagel.

Night night.


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## danzik17 (Jul 31, 2009)

I'm sure your son isn't going to grow to be a midget if he eats a bowl of cereal at night.


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## Gazhole (Jul 31, 2009)

danzik17 said:


> I'm sure your son isn't going to grow to be a midget if he eats a bowl of cereal at night.



Look at Tony the Tiger. That dude is buff.


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## juggernaut (Jul 31, 2009)

Yanick said:


> You're friend is missing the forest for the trees. Lets make a bank analogy. Say throughout the day one day I have to go buy some stuff, then sell it etc and I keep running to the bank to take money out and put money in. Lets say in the beginning of the day I have $2000 (body fat) in the bank. In the morning I put in $800 (eat) then I take it out a few hours later (activity), then I put in another 500 (eat) then take it out a few hours later (activity) then I put in 600 (eat) and then I take out 900 (activity) in the next few hours. At the end of the day, I have $1700 (less body fat) because I'm in a 300 deficit for the day. No matter how much I may plead with the bank or the lenders to let me have that 300 (insulin suppressing GH- which I suppose is this kids reason for not eating carbs at night) its not going to happen because I spent it. Now this is very much simplified but illustrates that Physics (energy cannot be created or destroyed) beats physiology. Thats science for him.


you confused me with the forest and tree analogy...and it was all Greek after that...


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## juggernaut (Jul 31, 2009)

I eat no carbs at night and my weenie is 6 inches. 









Wide babaaaaaay!!!


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## Nate K (Jul 31, 2009)

Built said:


> Well, there is no rationale for why it would matter. There's also no evidence for it.
> 
> Meal frequency and timing don't influence weight gain or loss.
> 
> ...



I watched this and this thread came to mind. 

Ep22: Is It Calories That Matter Most When Dieting to Lose Fat? | The Dr Clay Show

Built, you don't believe that timing and frequency of nutrition matters?


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## Built (Jul 31, 2009)

Are you asking me what I believe, or what there is evidence for?

There is no evidence that meal frequency is advantageous with regard to physique enhancement. You may be personally more comfortable eating six meals a day, and if so, knock yourself out - there's no evidence it will cause you any harm, either. 

Meal timing is another matter - a walk doesn't need a specific feeding, but I'm loath to recommend training hard while unfed. Based on my own personal experience, the feedback of others, and a great deal of very dry reading, it is my opinion that any starchy or sweet carbohydrate will be well-utilized if consumed in the meal before and or after you train.

The rest of your feedings can be placed wherever you would prefer to eat them.


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## juggernaut (Aug 1, 2009)

I concur. I recently added a cup of strawberries to my breakfast of cottage cheese and peanut butter with a drizzle of sugar free chocolate sauce, and that day about two hours later when I was training, every single lift was well, easy.


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## DocHoliday (Aug 18, 2009)

ArnoldsProtege said:


> My friend is adamant that carbs late at night=bad. I used to follow this idea, and it makes sense. However, I have heard many people, including those on this board, counter that argument. People say that its not what you eat and when, its calories in vs calories out. If I understand that argument, then if someone whos BMR is 2000 calories has eaten 1600 calories thus far, and then eats a peanut butter sandwich (lets say its 400 calories for arguments sake), then he wouldnt gain weight, regaurdless of the unused carbohydrates. Thats how I see the argument anyway...?
> 
> So can someone please settle this? I have arguments all the time about it with my friend, but not because I disagree completely , but because I _heard_ otherwise (I still avoid carbs late at night out of fear).
> 
> Anyone wanna take a stab at it, from a scientific standpoint?


 The reason you shouldn't do carbs late at night is because they spike insulin, which begins the fat storage and cessation of fat burning.  That is NOT a state you want to be in all night as you sleep!  All the experts seem to agree on this.  I believe Tom addresses this quite thouroughly in his books too.  Trim your carbs towards evening.


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## Built (Aug 18, 2009)

DocHoliday said:


> The reason you shouldn't do carbs late at night is because they spike insulin, which begins the fat storage and cessation of fat burning.  That is NOT a state you want to be in all night as you sleep!  All the experts seem to agree on this.  I believe Tom addresses this quite thouroughly in his books too.  Trim your carbs towards evening.


ALL THE EXPERTS? 

No. Sorry.

The only time I like to eat my carbs is near bedtime. Helps me sleep.

Why would fat storage be a problem? You store and retrieve fat. That's why you have fat cells.


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