# AndroDrive v3 is here -- Fearlessness, Motivation & Unlimited Stamina



## Primordial (Dec 8, 2011)

​

*IronMag members,*

The new AndroDrive is here -- AndroDrive v3

Finding the motivation and stamina to carry through workouts is virtually impossible without sufficient neuroactive androgen levels. (1-8) AndroDrive v3 delivers the strongest neuroactive androgens found in the human body -- which pushes blood levels past the ???androgen threshold" reshape the physique and carry through workouts with inexhaustible stamina. (8-20,24,25)

Our first AndroDrive v3 tester, Kevin A., noticed improved motivation and intensified workouts within only 2 weeks -- with virtually zero side-effects. See the interview here -

Kevin A. - AndroDrive - YouTube
Download the full case report here.​
*How is AndroDrive so effective?*


*Highly Dosed* - Contains the highest dose of androgens found in any natural androgen product
*Highly Neurogenic* - Super DHEA & PREG is 5x more effective than regular DHEA for increasing motivational energy & improved body composition (12-21)
*Highly Absorbable* - Bypasses the liver and increases blood androgen levels for nearly 24hrs


*What are the active ingredients?*

The androgens in AndroDrive include -


*Super-5-DHEA* - This naturally occurring androgen easily convert to _DHEA-sulfate_ (DHEAS), which enhances reaction time, motivation, while reducing hesitation and fear. Super-5-DHEA also boosts testosterone activity over 1200ng/dL*, bringing the body into the ideal "fat burning range". (21-31)​

*Super-5-PREG* - This naturally occuring neurosteroid easily converts to pregnenolone sulfate, which balances and enhances the mental effects from DHEA-sulfate. (20)​
Together, these androgens mimic the power of true injectable testosterone -- with a bioequivalence of 100mg/week injectable testosterone enanthate -- so you can make significant gains _without_ breaking the law. (11-23)

*From a baseline of 500ng/dl total androgen activity level.



*AndroDrive =  Androgens for the Brain & Body*

Unlike most stimulants, the benefits of AndroDrive are long-lasting, and slow building.

Typical stimulants are usually effective for several hours, at which point they clear the body and make you crash. 

AndroDrive is not a typical stimulant -- it works by developing and strengthening neurons throughout the brain and nervous system which enhances electro-chemical signal strength. These effects develop over the course of several weeks, and can be semi-maintained even after discontinuing AndroDrive. (43)





The results from AndroDrive are dramatic and noticeable when complemented with heavy lifting and a high protein diet.

Effects after 1-2 weeks ???


*Increased motivational energy*
*Reduced hesitation and fear*
*Reduced appetite*

... And then after 3-4 weeks ???


*4-6lb lean mass increase*
*2-3% drop in body fat*
*Dramatically increased exercise stamina*


*AndroDrive  =  Less Side-Effects*

AndroDrive was painstakingly optimized to bring maximum results with minimal side-effects -- it???s unlike anything on the market.

Side-effects from AndroDrive are temporary, and may include mild insomnia or restlessness. Some men may notice improved general health while supplementing with AndroDrive, since low androgen (testosterone) levels can lead to diabetes, obesity, heart disease, and depression. (32-34)





*AndroDrive = Easy Recovery*

A rapid and complete recovery of natural testosterone production, ensures the maximum gain retention.

Users of methylated orals and injectable steroids often struggle from a prolonged recovery, due to the highly suppressive nature of these types of steroids. (35-36) Recovery from these compounds can take months, or even years. (35-38) This makes it extremely difficult to maintain gains, sex-life, and mental health.

AndroDrive has one MAJOR advantage over the alternative -

*24hr Release - Mimics the body???s natural rhythm* _(LH & FSH secretion)_
The single daily dose of AndroDrive rises and falls within a 24 hour period. This ensures levels fall back to ???pre-dose??? levels every 24 hours, allowing natural testosterone production to be stimulated. This prevents testicular shrinkage, shutdown and prolonged recovery. (39,40)​
Since AndroDrive contains only androgens naturally produced by the body, they are easily metabolized and cleared from the body -- This allows users of AndroDrive to fully recover in 15 days or less.


*AndroDrive  =  Superior Delivery*

AndroDrive utilizes the new Liqua-Vade 24HR Delivery technology -


*Highly Bioavailable*- Fat soluble androgens absorb up to 98% and bypass the liver 
*Highly Reliable* - Maximum absorption is not dependant on food intake
*Highly Convenient *- Only ONE daily dose required for 24hr timed release of androgens

We accomplished ultra-high bioavailability by utilizing fat soluble ???fatty ester??? hormones which are absorbed by the ???fat uptake??? (lymphatic) system, seen here -




​

*AndroDrive  =  Cost Effective*

When priced against the nearest competition, AndroDrive is at least 200-1000% more cost effective. (41)

In fact, we encourage you to compare for yourself. Plus, consider the things you DON???T need with AndroDrive -


*Liver, kidney, or blood pressure support*
*Little blue pills to keep "things working"*
*Harsh "research grade" PCT drugs*
*Needles & sterilization*


*Primordial Performance  =  The #1 Source for Androgens*

Primordial Performance is the industry leader in natural androgen supplements for men. Since 2006 our mission has been clear -- maximize the male hormone environment without comprimising health. Our products are backed by thousands of positive reviews, success stories, and detailed case reports.

We take responsibility for our customers and take pride in the following - 


*Most Trusted* - Established industry leader since 2006 with an ???A??? reliability rating by the BBB
*Exceptional Quality* - 100% purity & identity testing
*Knowledgeable Staff* - Hormone specialists available from 9-5pm PST (Phone/Email/Chat)
*Industry Innovator* - Nearly 100% of profits are reinvested into future R&D


*Order Now  =  Get Started Tomorrow*

It can be difficult or nearly impossible to make progress to your physique with low androgen levels. If you are tired of being stuck in a plateau, take action now -- and give your body what it needs to take your progress to the next level.

Remember, AndroDrive gives you -


*Proven Safety* - Extensive in-house blood data confirms exceptional safety profile (42)
*Proven Effectiveness* - Improved physical and mental performance in less than 4 weeks (43)
*Proven Natural & Legal* - Non-toxic naturally occurring androgens are found in the food supply (44,45)


If quality, safety, and effectiveness are important to you -- AndroDrive is your #1 choice.


*Head over to primordialperformance.com and order AndroDrive now.

The coupon code 232FREESHIP will get you FREE ground FedEx, or USPS priority shipping.*​

Thank you for your support.



*Eric Potratz *
_Primordial Founder & President_


*Questions?*

Phone ??? 1-503-841-6702
Email - info@primordialperformance.com 
9am-11pm PST Live Chat - Primordial Performance Live Support
Visit - primordialperformance.com

_Primordial Performance LLC
13331 NE Whitaker Way
Portland OR 97230_


_
References ???

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11. Conversion of androsterone ester to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) -- with 10 hour pharmacokinetics
Draws performed by AnyLabTestNow, 714 SW Washington St, Portland, OR 97205 ,  July 2011.
Analysis performed by S.E.D. Medical Laboratories.
(Contact Primordial Performance for full report)

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13. In vitro metabolism of androgens in whole human blood.
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14. METABOLISM OF ANDROST-4-ENE-3,17-DIONE-4-14C BY RABBIT SKELETAL MUSCLE SUPERNATANT FRACTION. ISOLATION OF 3BETA-HYDROXYANDROST-4-EN-17-ONE-14C AND TESTOSTERONE-14C.
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J Biol Chem. 1964 Mar;239:766-72. No abstract available

15. Direct agonist/antagonist functions of dehydroepiandrosterone.
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16. Serum androgen bioactivity during 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone treatment in elderly men.
Raivio et al.
J Androl. 2002 Nov-Dec;23(6):919-21.

17. In vitro bioassays for androgens and their diagnostic applications.
Roy et al.
Hum Reprod Update. 2008 Jan-Feb;14(1):73-82. Epub 2007 Dec 4.

18. Determination of androgen bioactivity in human serum samples using a recombinant cell based in vitro bioassay.
Roy et al.
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19. Circulating bioactive androgens in midlife women.
Chen et al.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Nov;91(11):4387-94. Epub 2006 Aug 29.

20. Role of pregnenolone, dehydroepiandrosterone and their sulfate esters on learning and memory in cognitive aging.
Vallée M, et al.
Brain Res Brain Res Rev. 2001 Nov;37(1-3):301-12.

21. Androgens and anabolic agents
Julius A. Vida
Chemistry and pharmacology (1969) 

22. Delta-4-androstene-3,17-dione binds androgen receptor, promotes myogenesis in vitro, and increases serum testosterone levels, fat-free mass, and muscle strength in hypogonadal men.
Jasuja R, et al.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Feb;90(2):855-63. Epub 2004 Nov 2.

23. In vivo MRI evaluation of anabolic steroid precursor growth effects in a guinea pig model.
Tang H, et al
Steroids. 2009 Aug;74(8):684-93. Epub 2009 Mar 20.

24. The neurosteroids DHEA and DHEAS may influence cognitive performance by altering affective state.
Frye CA, et al.
Physiol Behav. 1999 Mar;66(1):85-92.

25. Antidepressant and cognition-enhancing effects of DHEA in major depression.
Wolkowitz OM, et al.
Ann N Y Acad Sci. 1995 Dec 29;774:337-9.

26. Strength Training and Anabolic Steroids
Anders Eriksson, et al.
University Medical Dissertations (2006)

27. Myonuclei acquired by overload exercise precede hypertrophy and are not lost on detraining.
Bruusgaard JC. et al.
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2010 Aug 24;107(34):15111-6. Epub 2010 Aug 16.

28. Androgen-mediated improvement of body composition and muscle function involves a novel early transcriptional program including IGF1, mechano growth factor, and induction of {beta}-catenin.
Gentile, M.A. et al.
J. Mol. Endocrinol. 44, 55???73 (2010)

29. Effects of anabolic steroids on the muscle cells of strength-trained athletes.
Kadi F, et al.
Med Sci Sports Exerc 31:1528???1534. (1999)

30. Testosterone-induced increase in muscle size in healthy young men is associated with muscle fiber hypertrophy.
Sinha-Hikim I, et al.
Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 283:E154???E164 (2002)

31. Stimulation of both estrogen and androgen receptors maintains skeletal muscle mass in gonadectomized male mice but mainly via different pathways.
Svensson J, et al.
J Mol Endocrinol. 2010 Jul;45(1):45-57. Epub 2010 Apr 30.

32. The male climacterium: clinical signs and symptoms of a changing endocrine environment.
van den Beld AW, et al.
Prostate Suppl. 2000;10:2-8.

33. Correlates of low testosterone and symptomatic androgen deficiency in a population-based sample.
Hall SA, et al.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2008 Oct;93(10):3870-7. Epub 2008 Jul 29.

34. Hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis disruptions in older men are differentially linked to age and modifiable risk factors: the European Male Aging Study.
Wu FC, et al.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2008 Jul;93(7):2737-45. Epub 2008 Feb 12.

35. Anabolic steroids purchased on the Internet as a cause of prolonged hypogonadotropic hypogonadism.
Pirola I, et al.
Fertil Steril. 2010 Nov;94(6):2331.e1-3. Epub 2010 Apr 22.

36. Long term perturbation of endocrine parameters and cholesterol metabolism after discontinued abuse of anabolic androgenic steroids.
Gårevik N, et al.
J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2011 Aug 22. [Epub ahead of print]

37. Testicular responsiveness to human chorionic godadotrophin during transient hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism induced by androgenic/anabolic steroids in power athletes
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Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1975 Feb;78(2):373-84.

39. Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression
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J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., May 2005; 90: 2595 ??? 2602.

40. Effect of long term deprivation of luteinizing hormone on Leydig cell volume, Leydig cell number, and steroidogenic capacity of the rat testis.
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Endocrinology 1988; 123:2906-2915.

41. Based on comparison to "natural androgen" based supplements, including DHEA and pregnenolone products.

42. Based on in-house blood data and case studies. Download white papers here - AndroDrive

43. Based on in-house case studies. See "Research" tab here - AndroDrive

44. Exposure assessment of prepubertal children to steroid endocrine disruptors. 2. Determination of steroid hormones in milk, egg, and meat samples.
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J Agric Food Chem. 2008 May 14;56(9):3176-84. Epub 2008 Apr 16.

45. REVERSAL OF THE 3-BETA-HYDROXYSTEROID DEHYDROGENASE-ISOMERASE REACTIONS. CONVERSION OF ANDROST-4-ENE-3,17-DIONE-4-14C TO 3-BETA-HYDROXYANDROST-4-EN-17-ONE-14C AND 3-BETA-HYDROXYANDROST-5EN-17-ONE-14C.
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J Biol Chem. 1964 Oct;239C3604-6._


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## ryansm (Dec 17, 2011)

Any members here running AndroDrive?


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## JCBourne (Dec 18, 2011)

No offense, but your saying androdrive gives more motivation energy and self confidence then injectable testosterone or dianabol (dbol)? 

That's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard.


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## HereToStudy (Dec 18, 2011)

JCBourne said:


> No offense, but your saying androdrive gives more motivation energy and self confidence then injectable testosterone or dianabol (dbol)?
> 
> That's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard.



What is hard to believe? This product's design is strictly for neuro-stimulation.


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## packers6211 (Dec 18, 2011)

I will be running my soon bro's on here as well as Ironfreakz, BBD, AM, and Steriology. I can't wait and I am adding Dermacrine as well as tcf-1 if I can find that anymore lol.


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## JCBourne (Dec 18, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> What is hard to believe? This product's design is strictly for neuro-stimulation.



Because it's complete bull crap. Your results are based off of what? Your comparing a OTC drug to something that is illegal, which injectable steroids are you comparing to and how are you ranking them?

If you don't have a independent company giving this comparison, then your information your posting is nothing more then marketing at it's finest.

You saying that your AndroDrive is BETTER at giving motivation and self confidence then dbol or test?

Either you've never ran either,never read the results people get from dbol/test or are just being a rep, whichever of the 3 your just lying out your teeth.


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## Primordial (Dec 19, 2011)

JCBourne said:


> Because it's complete bull crap. Your results are based off of what? Your comparing a OTC drug to something that is illegal, which injectable steroids are you comparing to and how are you ranking them?



Sorry... didnt transfer this over from the website -

1. "Injectable Steroids" represents 400mg/week testosterone enanthate
2. ???Methylated steroids??? may include 2a, 17a-dimethyl-5a-androst-3-one-17b-ol (Superdrol), 17b-hydroxy 2a, 17a-dimethyl 5a, androstan-3-on azine (Dimethazine), 4-chloro-17a-methylandrosta-1-4-diene-3-17-diol (Halodrol), 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol (Epistane)



JCBourne said:


> You saying that your AndroDrive is BETTER at giving motivation and self confidence then dbol or test?
> 
> Either you've never ran either,never read the results people get from dbol/test or are just being a rep, whichever of the 3 your just lying out your teeth.



Ive used and consulted with others who have used each and every compound listed in our comparisons. The Drive undoubtedly causes a more profound motivational effect than injectable test or any methylated compound.

-Eric


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## JCBourne (Dec 20, 2011)

Sorry but your research/data is not valid or reliable comparing test to your product. I've personally  used your products and saw nothing. You have great marketing i'll give you that. Please  do not state your AndroDrive is more of a self-confidence boost and  motivator then injectable test without a huge sample size.


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## Vibrant (Dec 20, 2011)

I sort of agree with JCBourne(I know who you used to be bro lol). Your products are dhea based so I have a hard time believing that they can even come close to dbol or test. Im not saying that your products dont work, which Im sure that they do to some degree.

if you are saying that AD V3 is two times better than injectable steroids for your health and you say it boosts your test levels to 1200ng/dL, if it does all that why dont you get with a pharmaceutical company and approve this for TRT patients?


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## JCBourne (Dec 20, 2011)

^ Got bored of the name, but glad you know iam as you know im a very true and honest person. I agree with you on your points, that is a very valid question. If it were better then injectable test TRT docs would have been all over this way before PP invented their product.


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## ryansm (Dec 20, 2011)

Primordial said:


> Sorry... didnt transfer this over from the website -
> 
> 1. "Injectable Steroids" represents 400mg/week testosterone enanthate
> 2. ???Methylated steroids??? may include 2a, 17a-dimethyl-5a-androst-3-one-17b-ol (Superdrol), 17b-hydroxy 2a, 17a-dimethyl 5a, androstan-3-on azine (Dimethazine), 4-chloro-17a-methylandrosta-1-4-diene-3-17-diol (Halodrol), 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol (Epistane)
> ...


I haven't used AD yet but I can certainly vouch for AH and AM so far, amazing compounds and I have ran many


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## Vibrant (Dec 20, 2011)

ryansm said:


> I haven't used AD yet but I can certainly vouch for AH and AM so far, amazing compounds and I have ran many



Im not really trying to be a dick and I do think your products work but you answered neither my question or JC's.

What I pretty much want to say is be careful with your marketing, you're starting to sound a lot like muscletech. IMO, you're turning some aas vets away because of your over hyped claims.


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## ryansm (Dec 20, 2011)

Don't see any to answer


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## Primordial (Dec 20, 2011)

JCBourne said:


> Sorry but your research/data is not valid or reliable comparing test to your product. I've personally  used your products and saw nothing. You have great marketing i'll give you that. Please  do not state your AndroDrive is more of a self-confidence boost and  motivator then injectable test without a huge sample size.




You've used AndroDrive?

We didn't say its more of a confidence boost. Its more of a motivational boost, and I dont need a huge sample size to tell me this.

Ive personally seen guys on 1000mg/week of test who "saw nothing". A non-responder doesn't take legitimacy out of the androgen. These products convert to active androgens, they bind to the AR, and they initiate a genomic response. 

In this particular case with Androdrive -- we have GABA antagonism, NMDA and Sigma-1 activation... which is not an effect we get from injectable testosterone. (atleast to any significant amount)


-Eric


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## Primordial (Dec 20, 2011)

Vibrant said:


> I sort of agree with JCBourne(I know who you used to be bro lol). Your products are dhea based so I have a hard time believing that they can even come close to dbol or test. Im not saying that your products dont work, which Im sure that they do to some degree.
> 
> if you are saying that AD V3 is two times better than injectable steroids for your health and you say it boosts your test levels to 1200ng/dL, if it does all that why dont you get with a pharmaceutical company and approve this for TRT patients?



The gains from AndroDrive are really nothing like dbol. The neurogenic effects are far beyond dbol, and the anabolic effects are far weaker. The side-effects are significantly less however. 

I can address any question you have, but would prefer to address one issue at a time. If there is a particular claim you disagree with, I probably have at least a few references to back it up with.

-Eric


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## JCBourne (Dec 20, 2011)

Vibrant said:


> What I pretty much want to say is be careful with your marketing, you're starting to sound a lot like muscletech. IMO, you're turning some aas vets away because of your over hyped claims.



Exactly. Over hyped claims is dead on. This is was very true with the last andro series. Pictures of guys before and after. The before shots were dark lighting, bloated looking (obvious) and bad angles. The after shots were guys in perfect lighting, oiled up, sucking in. It wasn't a coincidence either that the pictures looked like this even though the claims were "these are actual users" if it had been then the same lighting, date with newspaper and poses should have been used.

As far as the side effects of "AndroDrive" I think is very misleading. Do you have a large sample size, with years of studies and research on the product? If not, comparing "AndroDrive" side effects to injectable test is INVALID. Plus, on 400mg of test a week those "side effects" would be worse case scenario. 

I'm sure there are people who have results from your products, some of your old products got very good reviews from what I read but when you go to the extreme you guy's are continuing to go it drives people like me mad because some guy is going to think he's going to get this amazing body from running your products. The flip side to that coin is that your marketing is absolutely killing it in a good way and I give you mad props for that. Your website is very picture friendly and the design of the bottles and the layout is perfect.

I returned your old AndroLean because I saw little to nothing from it. The rep I spoke with was also a jerk trying to 1-up me and tell me why the product didn't work because of my diet, trust me... I'm no guru in the diet department but I surely knew a lot more then your rep was giving me credit for. He basically made me sound like I was an idiot and didn't know what I was doing and stating it was my fault the product didn't work. However, it's been reported (even within this forum) that AndroLean was basically a fail, I don't care to find this info but a rep of yours stated there was issues with AndroLean, however that the rest of the Andro line had good results. 

I'll end it on there. Please don't try to compare your product to injectable test it's very misleading. If your product is really all it cracks up to be you should get with a TRT specialist and have them test it on guys, maybe even get your product FDA approved if its really that great.

Best of luck to you guys on your quest.


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## banker23 (Dec 21, 2011)

JCBourne said:


> No offense, but your saying androdrive gives more motivation energy and self confidence then injectable testosterone or dianabol (dbol)?
> 
> That's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard.


 
Can't say that my dbol kicker/test cycle that I am currently on necessarily makes me _motivated_. It has meade me stronger but I don't feel any differently about getting to the gym until I get there. 

Maybe this stuff is comparable to what I hear about HALO (never tried it so can't say) but without the bad sides. PP's stuff delivers as promised for the most part in my experience so I'll be trying some of it (probably the AM and AH ver.3) once I get through PCT and take a few months natty.

Their AM/AH combo was in some ways better than the 500mg weekly test I am currently on and I didn't even run it in an optimal configuration because it was my first hormonal supplement and I didn't know enough. It's a good product to start on though because chances of doing serious damage (due to ignorance) are alot less than AAS IMO.


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## banker23 (Dec 21, 2011)

Vibrant said:


> Im not really trying to be a dick and I do think your products work but you answered neither my question or JC's.
> 
> What I pretty much want to say is be careful with your marketing, you're starting to sound a lot like muscletech. IMO, you're turning some aas vets away because of your over hyped claims.


 
PP's no muscletech! Muscletech's not on boards like this taking fire from "AAS vets" with its CEO providing responses directly to anyone who has questions. I think the marketing is designed to _PROVOKE _questions and conversation leading to clarification so that's a good thing in my book. Not many companies have this level of contact with their customers.


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## MattPorter (Dec 21, 2011)

JCBourne said:


> Exactly. Over hyped claims is dead on. This is was very true with the last andro series. Pictures of guys before and after. The before shots were dark lighting, bloated looking (obvious) and bad angles. The after shots were guys in perfect lighting, oiled up, sucking in. It wasn't a coincidence either that the pictures looked like this even though the claims were "these are actual users" if it had been then the same lighting, date with newspaper and poses should have been used.
> 
> As far as the side effects of "AndroDrive" I think is very misleading. Do you have a large sample size, with years of studies and research on the product? If not, comparing "AndroDrive" side effects to injectable test is INVALID. Plus, on 400mg of test a week those "side effects" would be worse case scenario.
> 
> ...



 I will say this -- I am not surprised your results were sub-par from OLD androlean.....I had my doubts when we released it. The 7oxo w/plain DHEA just wont pack the punch needed and while some folks got good results, nothing stellar. On the flip-side -- Old AndroMass v2 DID pan out the way I thought it would.

It delivered results to that of an old-school "Mag-10" which put 15lbs on me in 3 weeks. I am the first person to expose false, phony, bunk products....however when I had my personal friends use Andromass and gain 12-15 lbs in 4 weeks I even step - back and say "Damn, it is working how we wanted it too."

I put together the Beta-Tester program and all the testers were watched strictly. To be honest I had my doubts to choose such "unimpressive guys" but we figured they are more realistic to MOST people and not Bodybuilders who are already jacked outta their mind. 

Even though the testers gained 10, 12, 14, 20+ lbs......they still looked unimpressive ----that is just genetics and lack of muscle mass and as outsiders were used to seeing too  many FAKE muscletech, photo shopped before & afters....that something so real is unimpressive...

As far as DRIVE being more neuro stimulating than test / dbol.......I took it for 5 days and became very paranoid and alert. I was also on stims which could have exacerbated the effects but trust me -- the DRIVE is neurologically driven due to the hormone break-down (not up for argument).

So people gaining 10-15+ lbs on these cycles is VERY comparable to testosterone at 400 mgs ---- not really hard to believe once you actually stop and think for a second.

-Matt


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## ryansm (Dec 21, 2011)

JCBourne said:


> Exactly. Over hyped claims is dead on. This is was very true with the last andro series. Pictures of guys before and after. The before shots were dark lighting, bloated looking (obvious) and bad angles. The after shots were guys in perfect lighting, oiled up, sucking in. It wasn't a coincidence either that the pictures looked like this even though the claims were "these are actual users" if it had been then the same lighting, date with newspaper and poses should have been used.
> 
> As far as the side effects of "AndroDrive" I think is very misleading. Do you have a large sample size, with years of studies and research on the product? If not, comparing "AndroDrive" side effects to injectable test is INVALID. Plus, on 400mg of test a week those "side effects" would be worse case scenario.
> 
> ...



The hormones we use are as extensively studied as testosterone, we have sourced all of our info on the site and how we came to the claims we make. The pics you speak of were from the customers who PAID for the product, we had no control over nor did we ask for them to do anything to the pictures they sent. (We posted what we got). I'm currently running AM V2 and AH V3 and have gained well over 10 pounds in less than three weeks, these products work and there are tons of positive reviews from customers who again PAID for the product that not only agree but are returning customers. AL V2 didn't pan out which is why we listened to the customers and completely changed the product. I apologize that you didn't receive the help you wanted from one of us reps, we try to be professional, sometimes we try to point out reasons for an unsuccessful cycle because we believe in these products and have used them ourselves. We do not hide from these arguments either, even when they are from other company reps, and provided a money back policy even paying an extra 10% back to the customer. Your opinion is welcome, but in our defense we are nothing like muscletech, our products are innovative (not just the AndroSeries) and they work.


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## dravenraven (Dec 22, 2011)

i don't know about this stuff, there are things that are iffy. The pictures you guys use on your website and advisements for this stuff are crazy. The guys used look completely juiced. But the actual videos for the guys that ran the androseries look okay, you can't really tell if they used anything. Kind of makes someone question things. When someone trys to sell you AAS and shows you a picture of Arnold etc. They have good reason to.


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## ryansm (Dec 22, 2011)

dravenraven said:


> i don't know about this stuff, there are things that are iffy. The pictures you guys use on your website and advisements for this stuff are crazy. The guys used look completely juiced. But the actual videos for the guys that ran the androseries look okay, you can't really tell if they used anything. Kind of makes someone question things. When someone trys to sell you AAS and shows you a picture of Arnold etc. They have good reason to.


Pretty sure that's Matt, and he uses PP products


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## banker23 (Dec 22, 2011)

dravenraven said:


> i don't know about this stuff, there are things that are iffy. The pictures you guys use on your website and advisements for this stuff are crazy. The guys used look completely juiced. But the actual videos for the guys that ran the androseries look okay, you can't really tell if they used anything. Kind of makes someone question things. When someone trys to sell you AAS and shows you a picture of Arnold etc. They have good reason to.


 
The "Arnold" style pics are just marketing pics. No one is going to use a guy with 20% bodyfat to sell their product- that just makes sense. When I bought their stuff I had no expectation that it was going to transform me in 6 weeks anymore than I expected that from any PWO drink, natty test booster, protein supplement, etc. that uses the same marketing images.

The before and after pics do show changes and remember most of these are 6-8 week cycles so these are pretty profound changes for a short period of time.

One thing I will say most of the guys that PP uses are skinny little guys to begin with so maybe that has something to do with it. 5% lbm gain on a 140-170 lb. guy is substantially less than 5% gain on a 220-240 lb. guy. Unfortunately pics never seem to tell the whole story. There's a whole chapter in Arnold's ecyclopedia of modern bb'ing dedicated to photography. 

I know my "after" pics were probably less than impressive with my dirty laundry on the floor, harsh bathroom lighting and cartoon penguin shower curtain in the foreground. Still I went from 230-245 in 7 weeks, substantially increased all my lifts, and actually kept gaining a little through PCT (actually kept gains and added to them).

I'm doing a test cycle right now and *I have to say the gains have been comparable*. I went from 245-255 the first 5 weeks and dropped back down to 245 after the dbol ran out. I increased the test dose to 750mg ew and am holding weight constant while running a small calorie deficit. I plan to use the remaining 4 weeks to lean out.

Pricewise they are comparable since you don't need alot of ancillaries or international shipping and wire xfer costs that you have to include when pricing out a cycle. If you use more than one source then you end up with multiple shipping and payment costs as well. And I don't have to worry about getting in trouble.


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## MattPorter (Dec 22, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Pretty sure that's Matt, and he uses PP products



I think they got me on MASS (back shot) and LEAN (serratus)

But -- the ORIGINAL pictures from Version 2 ---absolutely had ZERO affiliation with us and YES people just submitted them in.

We even found some random guy on youtube -- document his AndroMass transformation ---and we were boggled, and had zero clue about this,

The Version 3 beta testers reports were SO UN-ALTERED , UNTOUCHED that even though they gained 10-14-20 pounds.....they just do not appear that impressive. That is reality folks,,,,

Besides most impressive before and afters are from "cutting" phases not mass gaining phases.

ONce we finally get AndroLeanv3 beta testers going ---then some noticeable Before & Afters should be present to the naked eye.

-Matt


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## HereToStudy (Dec 22, 2011)

Banker, thank you for telling it like it is. I would rep you, but it seems I am on spread.


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## Vibrant (Dec 22, 2011)

ryansm said:


> The hormones we use are as extensively studied as testosterone, we have sourced all of our info on the site and how we came to the claims we make. The pics you speak of were from the customers who PAID for the product, we had no control over nor did we ask for them to do anything to the pictures they sent. (We posted what we got). I'm currently running AM V2 and AH V3 and have gained well over 10 pounds in less than three weeks, these products work and there are tons of positive reviews from customers who again PAID for the product that not only agree but are returning customers. AL V2 didn't pan out which is why we listened to the customers and completely changed the product. I apologize that you didn't receive the help you wanted from one of us reps, we try to be professional, sometimes we try to point out reasons for an unsuccessful cycle because we believe in these products and have used them ourselves. We do not hide from these arguments either, even when they are from other company reps, and provided a money back policy even paying an extra 10% back to the customer. Your opinion is welcome, but in our defense we are nothing like muscletech, our products are innovative (not just the AndroSeries) and they work.




Ok before I start my argument, I want to say that I have nothing against your company.

There is no way that your products are as extensively studied as testosterone. Are your studies done by your company or tons of pharmaceutical research companies around the world counting back decades? See, that part of your statement is either a lie or a hype up of your product.

Your argument against jc being a rep for a competing company is unjust as well. He is not a rep for a legal supplement company so imo he is not competing with you at all.

how do you choose beta testers? If you gave out your product to respected members of this board, I would believe the results and I thought you guys were planning to do that but for some reason you backed out.


I will finish with this though, you got me interested in your product so kudos on that. I would've purchased one of your products and ran a honest log on it but I simply cannot justify spending over 100 dollars on a product that I have serious doubts about.


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## JCBourne (Dec 23, 2011)

Vibrant said:


> Ok before I start my argument, I want to say that I have nothing against your company.
> 
> *There is no way that your products are as extensively studied as testosterone. *Are your studies done by your company or tons of pharmaceutical research companies around the world counting back decades? *See, that part of your statement is either a lie or a hype up of your product.*
> 
> ...



Spot on. I've yet to see a member who's got a lot of rep who is highly  respected give praise to Andro series. If your products are as great as  they say, prove me wrong... Send me a cycle, I'll even log it for you in  a honest, non-bias way. 

BTW, I'm not gaining anything from posting this. It isn't like my  sponsor is competing against PP. As soon as I saw you were comparing  your products and making your products sound better then test I just had  to respond to that.

I'm a very, very honest person whenever I log or give a reviews. Doesn't  take much searching to see that I'm not lying. So when you, PP, hype a  product up as much as you do and you don't see the results it really  pisses people off (like me). Don't hype something up and not expect a  least one person to not respond with their opinion.


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## banker23 (Dec 23, 2011)

Vibrant said:


> Ok before I start my argument, I want to say that I have nothing against your company.
> 
> There is no way that your products are as extensively studied as testosterone.


 
They never said their "products" were as extensively studied as test. They specifically said "the hormones_ we use_" have been as extensively studied as test." Now that may be untrue as well by a matter of degrees but not by a matter of miles like the other statement.

The independent clause in their statement was "the hormones" and the dependent clause was "we use."

Like I said you probably still are right but this makes a difference.

I'll log something here with pics around Summer (and I'll pay for it like I paid for the last one-will wait for a good sale though) once I've taken some time off (at least 3-4 months) from test cycle. I'll be sure to prime for the cycle this time so I can get the best results and post pics and try to keep lighting and environment the same so we get apples to apples comparison.

I might even try to run a longer cycle using HCG and a real PCT regimen so the comparison is even more apples to apples.

"Don't hype something up and not expect a least one person to not respond with their opinion. "

Unlike alot of companies, it's obvious from PP's involvement that they _expect_ and _want _people to voice their opinions and skepticism. I think alot of their business comes from people like me who wanted to make the jump to prohormones or AAS but were concerned about things like liver damage (in the instance of PH's) and the law (in the instance of AAS). 

These discussions and arguments I think are very helpful to these people who are on the fence looking for a comparatively safe option.


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## MattPorter (Dec 23, 2011)

Vibrant said:


> Ok before I start my argument, I want to say that I have nothing against your company.
> 
> There is no way that your products are as extensively studied as testosterone. Are your studies done by your company or tons of pharmaceutical research companies around the world counting back decades? See, that part of your statement is either a lie or a hype up of your product.
> 
> ...



The Beta-Testers I chose were all around the Portland area so they could work with us closely and go to the Lab and get their Body composition measured . and get accurate pictures taken etc....

They were random people, at the gym, on FB etc....with no agenda or bias.

They performed rigorous blood work on several occasions and stuck to the diet and training the best they could.

The results?  Well just like ANY STEROID --- some guys got GREAT results, some not so much.....just with ANY STEROID ---genetic response will determine the level of results.

However-- both AndroBulk Testers achieved 14 and 16 lb gains in 4 & 6 weeks with one of the guys having previous AAS experience. (other one complete newb)

1 MASS guys results just flat out sucked.....I knew from looking at him from the beginning his genetic make-up just wasn;t there ---however his strength increased quite a bit ---but visually....terrible. While the other AndroMass tester gained over 20lbs......

DHea and their isomers have been studied for decades.....We aren't claiming to have found "new hormones" were just effectively delivering them, which are making them ACTUALLY WORK.

-Matt


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## Primordial (Dec 23, 2011)

JCBourne said:


> If your products are as great as  they say, prove me wrong... Send me a cycle, I'll even log it for you in  a honest, non-bias way.



This hasnt always been successful for us. Id say 1 out of 3 people never finish (or even finish) a log when they are given free product. It really seems to have little to do with a members "rep" points or time on a forum.

Like Matt said, we had full contact with our local testers. It was necessary to make sure they where getting blood work done at correct time, condition, etc. with proper body comp measurements, pre-screening, physical examination, etc.

-Eric


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## Primordial (Dec 23, 2011)

Vibrant said:


> Ok before I start my argument, I want to say that I have nothing against your company.
> 
> There is no way that your products are as extensively studied as testosterone.



DHEA has probably over a dozen peer reviewed human studies with 8-12 weeks of supplementation. The effects of DHEA (or pregnenolone) are very well documented in humans.

Our in house blood testing and research correlated well with the results and side-effects we anticipated. It was just confirmation that our specific formula would be as safe and effective as we assumed. 

-eric


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## ryansm (Dec 24, 2011)

Vibrant said:


> Ok before I start my argument, I want to say that I have nothing against your company.
> 
> There is no way that your products are as extensively studied as testosterone. Are your studies done by your company or tons of pharmaceutical research companies around the world counting back decades? See, that part of your statement is either a lie or a hype up of your product.
> the hormones used certainly have, DHEA has been studied extensively
> ...


PM a rep for a discount or enter in to my contest next month to run a free bottle of AH


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## Vibrant (Dec 24, 2011)

Primordial said:


> DHEA has probably over a dozen peer reviewed human studies with 8-12 weeks of supplementation. The effects of DHEA (or pregnenolone) are very well documented in humans.
> 
> Our in house blood testing and research correlated well with the results and side-effects we anticipated. It was just confirmation that our specific formula would be as safe and effective as we assumed.
> 
> -eric



I agree that dhea has been extensively studied, but did you alter it in any way? If you did, than most of that research doesn't apply because as most aas users know, that when you alter a hormone that can completely change the effects. I don't think I need to give you examples as you probably understand what i'm talking about, I hope lol.



ryansm said:


> PM a rep for a discount or enter in to my contest next month to run a free bottle of AH



As far as you saying what you did for v2 logging, I had no idea about that. I only knew what I saw about v3.

I always try to stay respectful but if I stepped out of line, I apologize and please let me know where I did.

I will enter your contest but I'll be honest I don't think I stand a chance of winning after I challenged you guys on some things.


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## ryansm (Dec 26, 2011)

Vibrant said:


> I agree that dhea has been extensively studied, but did you alter it in any way? If you did, than most of that research doesn't apply because as most aas users know, that when you alter a hormone that can completely change the effects. I don't think I need to give you examples as you probably understand what i'm talking about, I hope lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Only altercations is the ester attached

As far as the contest, enter it bud you have just as much of a chance as everyone else. Again we don't mind talking about all of this, we stand behind our products.


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## dravenraven (Dec 27, 2011)

Before I dump 100 and something bucks on this, i want to see someone that's made a significant change to there body that you can actually see, not just the scale. Just andromass, no stacking.


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## HereToStudy (Dec 27, 2011)

Vibrant said:


> I agree that dhea has been extensively studied, but did you alter it in any way? If you did, than most of that research doesn't apply because as most aas users know, that when you alter a hormone that can completely change the effects. I don't think I need to give you examples as you probably understand what i'm talking about, I hope lol.



The modification is a enanthate ester.


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## ryansm (Dec 28, 2011)

dravenraven said:


> Before I dump 100 and something bucks on this, i want to see someone that's made a significant change to there body that you can actually see, not just the scale. Just andromass, no stacking.



There are several on our forum of V2


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## ryansm (Jan 11, 2012)

^^^To add there are several more starting now, and one should be starting on here soon for AD.


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## nugget13 (Jan 11, 2012)

JCBourne said:


> Sorry but your research/data is not valid or reliable comparing test to your product. I've personally used your products and saw nothing. You have great marketing i'll give you that. Please do not state your AndroDrive is more of a self-confidence boost and motivator then injectable test without a huge sample size.


 

fuckin dot

PP is such a joke and a waste of $

lol paying more for Andromass than real test


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## MattPorter (Jan 11, 2012)

^^

Real test is GREAT! 

No one is disputing that -- but some people just do not want to go that route due to--

connections
spouses
legality
needles
overly suppressed hpta

for the regular gym goer who wants to make more out of his workout and eating....

Andro products are HORMONES -- and do work.

Does it equal an advanced cycle of illegal injectables......not quite.

If were talking a 300-400 mg /week cycle of test or eq or deca --- I'd put my name on it that it could.

-Matt


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## nugget13 (Jan 11, 2012)

Right, but I do agree that the marketing techniques you guys employ are becoming more and more far-fetched. 

"unlimited stamina"??

Just saying I think PP is pushing to the point where *some* of the claims are becoming as ridiculous as Sensa and Acai berries

Business is business however...

P.S. I used AndroHard back when I was a rookie, did have my diet dialed in, did not notice any benefits.


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## dravenraven (Jan 12, 2012)

i used v2 andromass and ive used superdrol. The superdrol was significantly better period. I'm just doubting this v3 series is much better.


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## MattPorter (Jan 13, 2012)

nugget13 said:


> Right, but I do agree that the marketing techniques you guys employ are becoming more and more far-fetched.
> 
> "unlimited stamina"??
> 
> ...



I agree that some of the claims are overly optimistic, but nonetheless there damn sure is  study for everything that is claimed.

Some of the benefits are pushed to the extreme, and could be toned down, but marketing is marketing.

However, at the end of the day, hormones work, and work better in some people opposed to others.

Did you use old AndroHard liquid? I would take 500mg pre-workout and even I felt that???

I hope you did not expect too much from a mildly dosed epiandrosterone product...aggression, some sex drive and training intensity perhaps.

I can tell you right now that the newest version of AndroHard is my favorite product and can be stacked with ANY other hormone.

-Matt


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## MattPorter (Jan 13, 2012)

dravenraven said:


> i used v2 andromass and ive used superdrol. The superdrol was significantly better period. I'm just doubting this v3 series is much better.



AndroMass v2 was the best product from that last series.....

What dose of SD did you use? What was gained?

What did you get out of AndroMass?

-Matt


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## dravenraven (Jan 13, 2012)

MattPorter said:


> AndroMass v2 was the best product from that last series.....
> 
> What dose of SD did you use? What was gained?
> 
> ...



15 pounds in 4 weeks on superdrol, 30mg. Size difference to the naked eye. Extreme pumps every workout, I got good pumps just flexing a muscle that i wasn't working that day, but if trained, extreme huge pump. Really good strength gain also.

I have taken dmz and max-lmg stacked and got about the same effects and gains although theirs differences.

The andromass I gained about 11 pounds in 4 weeks. I did get strength gains but it wasn't really good but it was there though. Pumps were there but not nearly as good as I would like them to be. Not much fullness, no real perpetual pump and tightness during the day.


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## ryansm (Jan 14, 2012)

11 pounds in 4 weeks without the sides, I'll take it any day, jmo.


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## HereToStudy (Jan 15, 2012)

ryansm said:


> 11 pounds in 4 weeks without the sides, I'll take it any day, jmo.



Yeah, man. I actually was ready to comment about how a comparison of SD to AndroMass isn't ideal, but I can't believe there was only a 4 lb difference. You have to account for the harsh toll your body took on SD in comparison to the Mass. 

SD can be said to be "better" then test in that 4 weeks of each and you will have better results with SD. The fact that testosterone is safer, and can be run longer allows it to be a more ideal hormone. AndroMass is not too different from this school of thought.


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## packers6211 (Jan 16, 2012)

I still got some lying around for future runs. I go wend for my MRI results on shoulder. I found out through a little birdie friend of mine, cough cough my chiro that the results show nothing torn, but something called an inpingement and calcium built up, that should require a small procedure. I'll know more soon, cause that androdrive bottle keeps haunting me at night.


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## Rodja (Jan 16, 2012)

Impingement where?


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## HereToStudy (Jan 16, 2012)

Keep us updated packers


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## HereToStudy (Jan 16, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> I still got some lying around for future runs. I go wend for my MRI results on shoulder. I found out through a little birdie friend of mine, cough cough my chiro that the results show nothing torn, but something called an inpingement and calcium built up, that should require a small procedure. I'll know more soon, cause that androdrive bottle keeps haunting me at night.



Mine comes in tomorrow. As soon as I receive them, it starts


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## ryansm (Jan 17, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> I still got some lying around for future runs. I go wend for my MRI results on shoulder. I found out through a little birdie friend of mine, cough cough my chiro that the results show nothing torn, but something called an inpingement and calcium built up, that should require a small procedure. I'll know more soon, cause that androdrive bottle keeps haunting me at night.


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## MattPorter (Jan 17, 2012)

dravenraven said:


> 15 pounds in 4 weeks on superdrol, 30mg. Size difference to the naked eye. Extreme pumps every workout, I got good pumps just flexing a muscle that i wasn't working that day, but if trained, extreme huge pump. Really good strength gain also.
> 
> I have taken dmz and max-lmg stacked and got about the same effects and gains although theirs differences.
> 
> The andromass I gained about 11 pounds in 4 weeks. I did get strength gains but it wasn't really good but it was there though. Pumps were there but not nearly as good as I would like them to be. Not much fullness, no real perpetual pump and tightness during the day.



I understand the massive full body pumps and tightness feeling from SD, as M1T treated me similarly.

However it also killed my lipids into single digits! --- and suppressed appetite etc.. but I gained 10 lbs in 10 days!

I would walk to the store and my calves and low back became so pumped i had to take rest breaks hahah

However -- the damaging effects turned me off and I got similar results on old school 4AD-1AD products with little to no sides.

All in all I will take the 11 lbs knowing I can soon run it again and again and be healthier.....

-Matt


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## packers6211 (Jan 17, 2012)

Rodja said:


> Impingement where?


 
He said on right shoulder. Close to my cuff. I'll know more tomorrow and will ask for a copy so I can better explain things.


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## HereToStudy (Jan 17, 2012)

MattPorter said:


> I understand the massive full body pumps and tightness feeling from SD, as M1T treated me similarly.
> 
> However it also killed my lipids into single digits! --- and suppressed appetite etc.. but I gained 10 lbs in 10 days!
> 
> ...



This is the key, and often over looked point IMO. I can only take the SD/Mass comparison so much...


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## dravenraven (Jan 17, 2012)

When are you going to have a 40% sale again? I'll try v3 andromass to see if the pumps are much better and if there's any tightness and to see what kind of visible size gain there is. If those aren't there ill get a refund.


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## Rodja (Jan 18, 2012)

Not sure when the next time we'll (if ever) have another 40% sale.


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## packers6211 (Jan 18, 2012)

Arthroscopic surgery is what I'll be having done  next wend. Said I should be down for 1-2 days from doing little stuff, lol guess no sex with mrs. Anyway he said 90 percent chance only this will have to be done, small 10 percent they would find something worse and have to do more. He said he'll get rid of the calcium and that I have a slight bit of Arthritus in shoulder but nothing terrible. From what he could tell from MRI, nothing torn in the aci. He said the inpingement will be fixed as well, and should be ok after 4-6 weels from surgey and rehab. This is what is on MRI Report: Impression: Hypertrophic arthropathy of the acromioclavicular joint definite supraspinatus impingement. Intant mucsles and tendons of the totator cuff. Question intermauscular lipoma teres minor, significance doubtfoul. So what the heck ever that means lol.


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## Rodja (Jan 20, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> Arthroscopic surgery is what I'll be having done  next wend. Said I should be down for 1-2 days from doing little stuff, lol guess no sex with mrs. Anyway he said 90 percent chance only this will have to be done, small 10 percent they would find something worse and have to do more. He said he'll get rid of the calcium and that I have a slight bit of Arthritus in shoulder but nothing terrible. From what he could tell from MRI, nothing torn in the aci. He said the inpingement will be fixed as well, and should be ok after 4-6 weels from surgey and rehab. This is what is on MRI Report: Impression: Hypertrophic arthropathy of the acromioclavicular joint definite supraspinatus impingement. Intant mucsles and tendons of the totator cuff. Question intermauscular lipoma teres minor, significance doubtfoul. So what the heck ever that means lol.



Arthropathy is basically a disease within a joint (e.g. arthritis), but having intact muscles and tendons is great.


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## ryansm (Jan 21, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> Arthroscopic surgery is what I'll be having done  next wend. Said I should be down for 1-2 days from doing little stuff, lol guess no sex with mrs. Anyway he said 90 percent chance only this will have to be done, small 10 percent they would find something worse and have to do more. He said he'll get rid of the calcium and that I have a slight bit of Arthritus in shoulder but nothing terrible. From what he could tell from MRI, nothing torn in the aci. He said the inpingement will be fixed as well, and should be ok after 4-6 weels from surgey and rehab. This is what is on MRI Report: Impression: Hypertrophic arthropathy of the acromioclavicular joint definite supraspinatus impingement. Intant mucsles and tendons of the totator cuff. Question intermauscular lipoma teres minor, significance doubtfoul. So what the heck ever that means lol.



It means you have the typical joints and tendon/ligament of someone who lifts weights Doesn't sound too bad, you should be good to go soon, make sure to follow through on the PT


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## packers6211 (Jan 22, 2012)

I will brother yall be the first to know updates. I can't have the surgery this wend, like planned. Having to have my taxes filed first. The place doing the surgery, called wanting my part on day of surgery, and best they could do was half down which still would be 900$ total cost for my part $1900 OUCH!!!


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## HereToStudy (Jan 22, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> I will brother yall be the first to know updates. I can't have the surgery this wend, like planned. Having to have my taxes filed first. The place doing the surgery, called wanting my part on day of surgery, and best they could do was half down which still would be 900$ total cost for my part $1900 OUCH!!!



I loathe medical bills. Always sucks.


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## Logman (Jan 22, 2012)

Rodja said:


> Not sure when the next time we'll (if ever) have another 40% sale.


I want to do an AH/AM stack (if my Torem ships international okay) but I will never pay full price for it.  If a 40% sale is not ever coming back (at least by spring) please let me know so I can do a HaloExtreme cycle instead.


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## ryansm (Jan 23, 2012)

Logman said:


> I want to do an AH/AM stack (if my Torem ships international okay) but I will never pay full price for it.  If a 40% sale is not ever coming back (at least by spring) please let me know so I can do a HaloExtreme cycle instead.



Pm a rep I'm sure we can work something out


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## Logman (Jan 23, 2012)

Sweet, will do.


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## HereToStudy (Jan 23, 2012)

Logman said:


> Sweet, will do.



Hope Ryan takes care of you. You should log


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## Logman (Jan 23, 2012)

I might do, but would be a very general log.


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## ryansm (Jan 25, 2012)

Logman said:


> I might do, but would be a very general log.



Anything works bud


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## HereToStudy (Jan 26, 2012)

ryansm said:


> Anything works bud



Agreed, any feedback is beneficial to the community.


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## ryansm (Jan 28, 2012)

HTS how is the AD treating you so far?


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## HereToStudy (Jan 29, 2012)

ryansm said:


> HTS how is the AD treating you so far?



Very well. I actually am suprised at the amount of work I am getting done at times. I actually finally got around to planning out a potential future with the company I work for, and will actually begin studying for industry-designation tests (CFA). This research I haven't had the motivation to do at all. 

In the gym, focus is on point. Same "make a plan and execute" effect.


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## ryansm (Jan 30, 2012)

HereToStudy said:


> Very well. I actually am suprised at the amount of work I am getting done at times. I actually finally got around to planning out a potential future with the company I work for, and will actually begin studying for industry-designation tests (CFA). This research I haven't had the motivation to do at all.
> 
> In the gym, focus is on point. Same "make a plan and execute" effect.



Nice, just what I am looking for. I would like to start but I am just out of PCT have to wait a bit longer.


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## packers6211 (Jan 31, 2012)

Well I'm alive lol. They took an inch of bone off right shoulder. Went to first day of therapy today and went ok but hurt like hell. Rest, recovery, and staying the hell off of it is key to getting better.


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## HereToStudy (Jan 31, 2012)

ryansm said:


> Nice, just what I am looking for. I would like to start but I am just out of PCT have to wait a bit longer.



Yeah, I am pleasantly suprised.


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## ryansm (Feb 1, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> Well I'm alive lol. They took an inch of bone off right shoulder. Went to first day of therapy today and went ok but hurt like hell. Rest, recovery, and staying the hell off of it is key to getting better.



Yup rest is key along with doing the prescribed work by your PT


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## fienelarinsare (Feb 2, 2012)

Lol


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## packers6211 (Feb 2, 2012)

PT is going ok but some of the moves are freaking painful as hell. The pt guy said I'm doing good in range already just taking it slow on strength. It hurts to even lift a miilk jug. Here to WAKE UPPPP! lol


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## HereToStudy (Feb 2, 2012)

ryansm said:


> Yup rest is key along with doing the prescribed work by your PT



I don't envy pack with the PT. I remember what a bitch it was after my fractured femur.


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## HereToStudy (Feb 5, 2012)

packers, I got back to your on your PM.


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## packers6211 (Feb 5, 2012)

I got brother! Thanks.  My arm feeling better on two of the three spots they hit, but that one hurts like a sob. It litteraly feels like my bone wants to come out of my shoulder through the skin to paint a detail. But never the less it's getting better. Off this week again from work, so that and pt combine will def help. I can hear the gym calling my name!


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## ryansm (Feb 7, 2012)

HereToStudy said:


> I don't envy pack with the PT. I remember what a bitch it was after my fractured femur.



That must have sucked, did your leg shrink to half the size of the other


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## ryansm (Feb 7, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> I can hear the gym calling my name!



Soon!


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## packers6211 (Feb 7, 2012)

lol yeah hey send me a pm I sent one but can't remember to who. I wanted to get code for TCF-1. I'm trying to stock up now while I got tax money.


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## ryansm (Feb 9, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> lol yeah hey send me a pm I sent one but can't remember to who. I wanted to get code for TCF-1. I'm trying to stock up now while I got tax money.



It was me, check your PM's


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## packers6211 (Feb 9, 2012)

I did bro thanks and order was placed. I'm shooting for my Dr. to say g2g by mid march or first of April. I plan on running Androdrive, Dermacrine, TCF-1, and then end it with sustain alpha.


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## HereToStudy (Feb 9, 2012)

ryansm said:


> That must have sucked, did your leg shrink to half the size of the other




It did. This was back in my tiny days though, so it wasn't as noticeable as if it were to happen today, lol.


packers6211 said:


> I did bro thanks and order was placed. I'm shooting for my Dr. to say g2g by mid march or first of April. I plan on running Androdrive, Dermacrine, TCF-1, and then end it with sustain alpha.



Awesome


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## BigBlackGuy (Feb 10, 2012)

Primordial said:


> This hasnt always been successful for us. Id say 1 out of 3 people never finish (or even finish) a log when they are given free product. It really seems to have little to do with a members "rep" points or time on a forum.



People will also be WAY more critical and un-biased if they pay full-price or 25% off for the products.  Then they have to put the full effort in... because they paid the price.


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## VolcomX311 (Feb 10, 2012)

I want to give Androdrive a try soon.


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## packers6211 (Feb 10, 2012)

Well it is sad that some do that, but the more active members you can see if there for real. I'm saying that becasue I'm on a good bit of forums, and active on each one of them every single day unless physically unable lol or power is out.  I've log by being sent products from reps, and also by buying on my own.  Ryan and Hereto don't worry about ole Packers, trust me once the Dr. gives me the ok I will androdrive. Also Volcom you are one of the most class act members and without I'd be lost on a lot of things. You would be one hell of a candidate to run androdrive!!!!


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## GEZA (Feb 11, 2012)




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## ryansm (Feb 11, 2012)

VolcomX311 said:


> I want to give Androdrive a try soon.



I would like to hear your thoughts on it if you do, I'm mostly psyched about the CNS recovery I'm having right now which is great for the oly stuff


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## HereToStudy (Feb 12, 2012)

Plus, I just plain like Volc's logs.


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## ryansm (Feb 14, 2012)

HereToStudy said:


> Plus, I just plain like Volc's logs.



Cat knows how to run a log that's for sure, honest guy as well.


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## VolcomX311 (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks for the compliments.  I intend to give Androdrive a try in the near future.


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## packers6211 (Feb 14, 2012)

Cool Volc make sure to let your old pal packers know when you do log so I can follow.


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## oufinny (Feb 14, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> I did bro thanks and order was placed. I'm shooting for my Dr. to say g2g by mid march or first of April. I plan on running Androdrive, Dermacrine, TCF-1, and then end it with sustain alpha.



Tommy please don't rush back after the surgery you had; if you do you will forever regret it.  Have goals but let how well your body heals be the determining factor, not an arbitrary date on a calendar. PP are good people, I'm sure a delay on the log will be completely understood in this case. 

I have been delaying my cycle now going on 6 weeks and it's going to be another 4-6 before I am 100%.  It sucks but being injured is far worse for me. You know I am rooting for you to come back better than ever so keep that in mind when you read this post.


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## oufinny (Feb 14, 2012)

VolcomX311 said:


> Thanks for the compliments.  I intend to give Androdrive a try in the near future.



Volc how long has it been since your last cycle?


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## VolcomX311 (Feb 15, 2012)

oufinny said:


> Volc how long has it been since your last cycle?


 
I ran Cyanostane in November and finished out my PCT by the end of  December, but I don't think I'll be running another legit PH anytime soon.  The extraordinarily fast gains messed my head up and it was really hard to re-adjust my expectations back to normal (slow) gains once I got off and that really messed with my head and effected my motivation for a good month.

What kind of PCT if any does Androdrive require?


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## ryansm (Feb 16, 2012)

oufinny said:


> Tommy please don't rush back after the surgery you had; if you do you will forever regret it.  Have goals but let how well your body heals be the determining factor, not an arbitrary date on a calendar. PP are good people, I'm sure a delay on the log will be completely understood in this case.
> 
> I have been delaying my cycle now going on 6 weeks and it's going to be another 4-6 before I am 100%.  It sucks but being injured is far worse for me. You know I am rooting for you to come back better than ever so keep that in mind when you read this post.



We agree, take all the time that is needed


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## ryansm (Feb 16, 2012)

VolcomX311 said:


> What kind of PCT if any does Androdrive require?


Honestly maybe just DAA, or nothing at all. I will be experimenting with 8 weeks and no PCT except SA and DAA with bloods, currently on week 2. The suppression is minimal if anything and something like Erase and a t-booster like DAA will be plenty I'm sure.


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## VolcomX311 (Feb 16, 2012)

ryansm said:


> Honestly maybe just DAA, or nothing at all. I will be experimenting with 8 weeks and no PCT except SA and DAA with bloods, currently on week 2. The suppression is minimal if anything and something like Erase and a t-booster like DAA will be plenty I'm sure.


 
Nice.  As soon as Orbit re-stocks I'm on it.


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## packers6211 (Feb 16, 2012)

Houston you know me to well lol. But I also realize pt and rest is my key to getting back with it. I only do what the pt guys has me doing and at home I only do the instructions from a list of exercises. He said I have been progressing very well and some new exercises he game me this week I flew by. No joke he'd ask me how was that and I'd be ok I guess lol. So that being said at least it's looking bright. I figure I can do light nautalas towards end of month. It does drive me insane as some of my gym buds have wonderd if I went limp lol.


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## HereToStudy (Feb 16, 2012)

VolcomX311 said:


> Nice.  As soon as Orbit re-stocks I'm on it.



Awesome.


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## ryansm (Feb 18, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> Houston you know me to well lol. But I also realize pt and rest is my key to getting back with it. I only do what the pt guys has me doing and at home I only do the instructions from a list of exercises. He said I have been progressing very well and some new exercises he game me this week I flew by. No joke he'd ask me how was that and I'd be ok I guess lol. So that being said at least it's looking bright. I figure I can do light nautalas towards end of month. It does drive me insane as some of my gym buds have wonderd if I went limp lol.



You will bounce back quick and with the discipline and motivation that AndroDrive provides it will be no problem


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## packers6211 (Feb 19, 2012)

I'm looking forward to it brother. So far this weekend the only pain is when i sleep on it and when making any motion going up with arm. It feels like someone is ripping my shoulder and twisted it, but then it go's away.


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## HereToStudy (Feb 19, 2012)

ryansm said:


> You will bounce back quick and with the discipline and motivation that AndroDrive provides it will be no problem



Definitely good for fighting the post-work shift excuses as well, lol!


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## VolcomX311 (Feb 20, 2012)

I can't wait to try it.  I can use the extra boost of motivation in the depths of my cut and Orbit has restocked the Androdrive, so I should be getting my hands on some shortly, can't wait


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## HereToStudy (Feb 20, 2012)

VolcomX311 said:


> I can't wait to try it.  I can use the extra boost of motivation in the depths of my cut and Orbit has restocked the Androdrive, so I should be getting my hands on some shortly, can't wait



Excited for you. I recently ran out and will have to discontinue for an upcoming PCT. Can't wait till I can run it again.


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## VolcomX311 (Feb 21, 2012)

HereToStudy said:


> Excited for you. I recently ran out and will have to discontinue for an upcoming PCT. Can't wait till I can run it again.


 
How long did you run it for?  I'm thinking two bottles worth at full dose.


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## ryansm (Feb 21, 2012)

VolcomX311 said:


> I can't wait to try it.  I can use the extra boost of motivation in the depths of my cut and Orbit has restocked the Androdrive, so I should be getting my hands on some shortly, can't wait



It's crazy but the mind/muscle connection is intense while training, really unique imo.


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## VolcomX311 (Feb 21, 2012)

ryansm said:


> It's crazy but the mind/muscle connection is intense while training, really unique imo.


 
My best workout days are when I feel that mind/muscle connection.


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## packers6211 (Feb 21, 2012)

Volc your insane lol I bet just about every day you have those. I know what you mean though, if my mind isn't into it, it's just not as good.


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## VolcomX311 (Feb 21, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> Volc your insane lol I bet just about every day you have those. I know what you mean though, if my mind isn't into it, it's just not as good.


 
I can still have good days even when I feel like I'm just going through the motions, but it's just a different sensation and satisfaction when I feel particulalry dialed in. Plus, I'm in the quasi-lethargic point of my cut where cardio feels a bit too burdonsome. I'm not expecting magic, but from what I've read, Androdrive sounds like something that'll be really beneficial for me at this point and I'm just curious about a product meant to enhance the mind/muscle connection, that's pretty unique.


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## packers6211 (Feb 22, 2012)

Yeah me too bro. When my minds clear of all outside drama and it's go time, I am a beast in my own world. That's one reason why I use to like Meso. It just put me in a differnt world, like Craze does now for me. Drive is going to be wicked. I can't wait til we both log it.


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## HereToStudy (Feb 23, 2012)

VolcomX311 said:


> How long did you run it for?  I'm thinking two bottles worth at full dose.



It was only 4 weeks. By the time I was able to get it in, pushing on two bottles would have cut into my PCT, which I wanted to avoid. I am going to go long term and be more experimental with it solo. Definitely want to see what lower dose feels like, which would be nice so I can run it long.


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## VolcomX311 (Feb 24, 2012)

HereToStudy said:


> It was only 4 weeks. By the time I was able to get it in, pushing on two bottles would have cut into my PCT, which I wanted to avoid. I am going to go long term and be more experimental with it solo. Definitely want to see what lower dose feels like, which would be nice so I can run it long.


 
What's the suggested amount of time to run it at full dose?  I'm wondering if I should be getting one or two bottles.  Is 8 weeks excessive?


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## ryansm (Feb 24, 2012)

VolcomX311 said:


> What's the suggested amount of time to run it at full dose?  I'm wondering if I should be getting one or two bottles.  Is 8 weeks excessive?



No I think at full dose even something like 20 weeks is fine. I will be running 12-16 most likely


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## VolcomX311 (Feb 24, 2012)

ryansm said:


> No I think at full dose even something like 20 weeks is fine. I will be running 12-16 most likely


 
Nice.  Thanks


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## ryansm (Feb 27, 2012)

VolcomX311 said:


> Nice.  Thanks



When are you thinking to start?


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## VolcomX311 (Feb 27, 2012)

ryansm said:


> When are you thinking to start?


 
I'm not completely certain yet.


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## HereToStudy (Feb 27, 2012)

ryansm said:


> No I think at full dose even something like 20 weeks is fine. I will be running 12-16 most likely



Yep. I have my two bottles on the way (should be here any day now). Assuming 3 caps does it for me, that will be 16 weeks of usage.


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## VolcomX311 (Feb 28, 2012)

HereToStudy said:


> Yep. I have my two bottles on the way (should be here any day now). Assuming 3 caps does it for me, that will be 16 weeks of usage.


 
Damn, that sounds like a fun run.


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## HereToStudy (Feb 29, 2012)

VolcomX311 said:


> Damn, that sounds like a fun run.



Hoping it will be. There is a chance I will ramp up the dosage. I am trying to find my ideal spot for running as a solo product.


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## ryansm (Mar 5, 2012)

HereToStudy said:


> Hoping it will be. There is a chance I will ramp up the dosage. I am trying to find my ideal spot for running as a solo product.



I have found 4 to be perfect for myself, took some time to get it dialed in, but now it is smooth sailing. I'm thinking of running it until my next cycle in the summer


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## VolcomX311 (Mar 5, 2012)

I convinced my workout parnter to grab some Androdrive.  His came in last Tuesday and by Saturday he was experiencing all the positive effects he read that it was suppose to elicit.  Mental clarity, a sense of increased motivation & augmented focus.  Tonight will be his first workout with the Androdrive in full effect   I'm curious to see how that goes.


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## ryansm (Mar 6, 2012)

He is going to love it and it should be intense, let us know how it turns out!


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## HereToStudy (Mar 6, 2012)

VolcomX311 said:


> I convinced my workout parnter to grab some Androdrive.  His came in last Tuesday and by Saturday he was experiencing all the positive effects he read that it was suppose to elicit.  Mental clarity, a sense of increased motivation & augmented focus.  Tonight will be his first workout with the Androdrive in full effect   I'm curious to see how that goes.



Very nice!


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## ryansm (Mar 12, 2012)

VolcomX311 said:


> I convinced my workout parnter to grab some Androdrive.  His came in last Tuesday and by Saturday he was experiencing all the positive effects he read that it was suppose to elicit.  Mental clarity, a sense of increased motivation & augmented focus.  Tonight will be his first workout with the Androdrive in full effect   I'm curious to see how that goes.



How did it go?


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## VolcomX311 (Mar 12, 2012)

ryansm said:


> How did it go?


 
It went well.  He was only on 4 caps, he wanted to build up to 6 caps, but he's been out all last week, so I haven't worked out with him since.  The way he describes his neuro-stimulation is really interesting.


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## ryansm (Mar 14, 2012)

Yup, very unique, interested to hear how you like it when you get it.


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## jwa (Mar 15, 2012)

love what I've been reading in here, androdrive looks like a sick supp to add to any stack or run it solo for that extra edge. I've gotta try this soon


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## packers6211 (Mar 15, 2012)

Yeah mang I'm getting closer to starting mine. BE done with current stack soon. PP makes wicked good products.


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## HereToStudy (Mar 15, 2012)

jwa said:


> love what I've been reading in here, androdrive looks like a sick supp to add to any stack or run it solo for that extra edge. I've gotta try this soon



Let me know if you need a coupon.


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## ryansm (Mar 20, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> Yeah mang I'm getting closer to starting mine. BE done with current stack soon. PP makes wicked good products.


What's the ETA on that AndroDrive cycle?


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## packers6211 (Mar 20, 2012)

I got less then two weeks left on curreny stack. Going to run Andro drive as directed on bottle, along with creatine nitrate, then at end add in sustain alpha. I am using Dermacrine right now and friggin love it. Actally logging it with Southlands recourse. Anyway shoulder is better on ton of lifts but no where near perfect. I can feel it on db pressed and db flyes but not on shoulder which confused the shiz out of me. BTW Orbit is having a wicked sale %20 off Androdrive.


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## HereToStudy (Mar 20, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> I got less then two weeks left on curreny stack. Going to run Andro drive as directed on bottle, along with creatine nitrate, then at end add in sustain alpha. I am using Dermacrine right now and friggin love it. Actally logging it with Southlands recourse. Anyway shoulder is better on ton of lifts but no where near perfect. I can feel it on db pressed and db flyes but not on shoulder which confused the shiz out of me. BTW Orbit is having a wicked sale   off Androdrive.


I saw that. Nice price


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## ryansm (Mar 26, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> I got less then two weeks left on curreny stack. Going to run Andro drive as directed on bottle, along with creatine nitrate, then at end add in sustain alpha. I am using Dermacrine right now and friggin love it. Actally logging it with Southlands recourse. Anyway shoulder is better on ton of lifts but no where near perfect. I can feel it on db pressed and db flyes but not on shoulder which confused the shiz out of me. BTW Orbit is having a wicked sale %20 off Androdrive.


Fly's do the same with my shoulder which makes sense with the plane of the movement


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## HereToStudy (Mar 27, 2012)

ryansm said:


> Fly's do the same with my shoulder which makes sense with the plane of the movement



My shoulders get it from cable crossovers. When I am going heavier, the release can put unwanted tension on them.


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## HereToStudy (Apr 12, 2012)

Still have coupons for AndroDrive. Send me a PM!


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## packers6211 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hereto any coupons for lean by chance? Just keep me posted. I leave for tdy Sunday and when I get back I may look into getting some. Androdrive's biggest plus so far for me is the agression and I don't know for sure by my libido has to been effected. It's been very very good as of late.


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## packers6211 (Apr 13, 2012)

No gym last couple days as family was leaving out, then late last night we got word my ucnle had passed. Sad thing is funeral's Monday and I'll be leaving out for tdy Sunday  But I know he's in Heaven asking God where the hot spots are for fishing lol. If everything goes ok I'll be able to hit gym tomorrow for a good chest/tri's workout. 

​


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## HereToStudy (Apr 15, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> Hereto any coupons for lean by chance? Just keep me posted. I leave for tdy Sunday and when I get back I may look into getting some. Androdrive's biggest plus so far for me is the agression and I don't know for sure by my libido has to been effected. It's been very very good as of late.


Always brother, let me know when you are ready and I will give you a coupon.


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## ryansm (Apr 20, 2012)

VolcomX311 said:


> It went well.  He was only on 4 caps, he wanted to build up to 6 caps, but he's been out all last week, so I haven't worked out with him since.  The way he describes his neuro-stimulation is really interesting.



Any updates bud?


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## HereToStudy (Apr 22, 2012)

ryansm said:


> Any updates bud?


x2, definitely interested.


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## R1balla (Apr 23, 2012)

off topic but i really enjoyed my 8 week run of andromass


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## packers6211 (Apr 23, 2012)

So far androdrive has my agression high as ever. No app sup, but def feel more agressive.


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## HereToStudy (Apr 24, 2012)

R1balla said:


> off topic but i really enjoyed my 8 week run of andromass



Happy to hear it bro.



packers6211 said:


> So far androdrive has my agression high as ever. No app sup, but def feel more agressive.



App Sup = appetite suppression?


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## packers6211 (Apr 25, 2012)

lol yeah bro sorry. I had a good workout today despite not being able to do flat bench still.


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## HereToStudy (Apr 25, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> lol yeah bro sorry. I had a good workout today despite not being able to do flat bench still.


It will be back in time, your patience now will pay dividends later.


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## packers6211 (Apr 26, 2012)

I know bro some times it just seems like a lifetime haha.


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## packers6211 (Apr 26, 2012)

I'll be starting my Sustain Alpha this weekend!!


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## ryansm (Apr 26, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> lol yeah bro sorry. I had a good workout today despite not being able to do flat bench still.



Squats, squats, and more squats...bench will follow...pulls as well but it will certainly be too much for your shoulder


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## HereToStudy (Apr 26, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> I'll be starting my Sustain Alpha this weekend!!



Awesome.



ryansm said:


> Squats, squats, and more squats...bench will follow...pulls as well but it will certainly be too much for your shoulder




Good point, not a bad time to work on those wheels.


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## HereToStudy (Aug 9, 2012)

Bump ~ Add some motivational energy to your next cycle, hit me up for a coupon.


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## HereToStudy (Aug 18, 2012)

Matt was talking about the potential to combine drive with some racetams, anyone using any or have experience with any of them?


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## ryansm (Aug 24, 2012)

25% still offered for All AndroSeries products and we are currently offering 30% off on box-less AndroMass!


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## ryansm (Oct 4, 2012)

ryansm said:


> 25% still offered for All AndroSeries products and we are currently offering 30% off on box-less AndroMass!



Bump, still offering the 25% off and we still have the BOGO on AndroBulk


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