# Bulking while still overweight?



## Tripster (Aug 23, 2009)

Hey fellas, a simple question really that everyone ignores or atleast the answer is impossible to find.


I hear all the time about a 500 calorie surplus for bulking and a 500 or so deficit for cutting, but isn't that for people with already little body fat? 

I'm "chubby" with about 1/2 inch of flubber over my abs (not much, but the love handles are still annoying), I workout intensely every other day, but on off days I do cardio. 

Currently, my diet is a 500 calorie surplus on weight-training days and on cardio days as well with an even mix of carbs/protein.


In my situation, do I really need to be on a caloric surplus to gain muscle and get rid of the flubber considering I already have lots of stored energy in the form of fat on me?  

won't I just get fatter if I continue bulking like this? And won't being on a deficit actually be beneficial since I'd use stored body fat for energy without having to digest new calories and get fatter? 


I'd think that perhaps a 50/50 carbs-protein diet with a 500 calorie surplus would be enough to build muscle and lose the body fat, since it would be used as energy to fuel new muscle growth.

Am I wrong here on this? should I continue with a 500 calorie surplus and not worry about getting even fatter?


----------



## Marat (Aug 23, 2009)

Tripster said:


> In my situation, do I really need to be on a caloric surplus to gain muscle and get rid of the flubber considering I already have lots of stored energy in the form of fat on me?



For the most part, you cannot gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. You would benefit by dropping to a lower BF% before you bulk. One benefit is an improvement in calorie partioning (i.e the calories will go more readily towards the muscle and less will getting stored as fat).



Tripster said:


> won't I just get fatter if I continue bulking like this?


Yes.


Tripster said:


> I'd think that perhaps a 50/50 carbs-protein diet



Ditch the percentages stuff. With this approach, you are ignoring differences in lean body mass. A more practical method would be determining intake based on your lean body mass (i.e 1g protein/ lb lbm, and 0.5g fat/ lb lbm.) This approach takes your LBM into consideration in order to allow for more flexibility among different sized people.



Tripster said:


> with a 500 calorie surplus would be enough to build muscle and lose the body fat, since it would be used as energy to fuel new muscle growth.



This isn't how it works. I see where your logic is coming from, but you are ignoring a lot of physiological _stuff_.

Pick one, cut/bulk/maintain. You cannot do it all at once. I recommend cutting first.


----------



## Merkaba (Aug 27, 2009)

Yes.  Third time in two days I've had to tell people here or at the gym..."Pick one"  If youre overweight, then cut, like M11 said, then when you bulk you'll have a higher chance of the calories being "partitioned" or "divided" in your favor. 


And yes, ditch the ratios.  If you don't Built will come and decapitate you....or worse!


----------



## Gazhole (Aug 28, 2009)

Agree with these guys.

On a side note - 50/50 between carbs and protein doesnt leave any room for fats, they are essential, please don't leave them out! Eating fats does not make you fat!


----------



## k.smith.4 (Aug 29, 2009)

m11 said:


> For the most part, you cannot gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.



I also didn't think so. But what about Hollywood actors? You hear all the time, how they had to gain muscles and drop BF% in 6 months (for a role in a movie). How do they do it? I don't think they have time to cut first and then bulk. I believe they get the best personal trainers in the world, but anyway. I'm curious ...


----------



## Marat (Aug 29, 2009)

Usually they just drop body fat. When they say that they have "gained muscle" it is likely a visual observation...not a statement that they have increased lean body mass.

When body fat decreases, there is typically the illusion that muscle sizes increase because of the increase in definition.


----------



## k.smith.4 (Aug 29, 2009)

Okey, but how do they protect muscles when cutting? I heard you are at risk of loosing muscle mass when you burn more calories than you eat ...


----------



## Marat (Aug 29, 2009)

Eating sufficient protein (~1g/lb lbm), training properly, modest deficit (~500 cals/day)


----------



## Merkaba (Sep 9, 2009)

They also tend to take steroids and or the closest thing to it the doc can get.


----------

