# Smart For Life



## Marat (Jun 8, 2008)

Hello,
First of all, long read....

 I've started this nutrition program (Smart For Life) that has been working well so far. I'd just like to here your opinions on it. It has been around for a little, and the link has a "as seen on abc" link to a video that gives it a quick explanation. (the doctor in the video is my actual doctor which is pretty cool)

Smart for Lifeâ„¢ Weight Management Centers-cookie no.1 diet plan that will help you lose weight

My situation is:
Started the program on 5/8 (may 8th). I was  20 years old 5'9" 276lbs 31percent body fat. Vitals were all normal 120/80bp...184cholesteral...~66pulse rate. I had been involved in sports and weight lifting my entire life. My nutrition situation was kind of dubious, i'm actually knowledgeable on proper diets...im a nutrition major in college...and I've successfully constructed diet programs to help people lose weight themselves. Its just that i've been lazy with my own nutrition and have been too lazy to prepare meals for myself throughout the day...been doing the big 1 or 2 meals a day thing for awhile. This program allows you to easily have meals available for yourself.

Anyways, since 5/8 I've lost about 20-25 pounds on the program. I haven't checked my BF but i visit the doctor weekly so i can check it if anyone is interested. My vitals are monitored weekly and everything in order. Essentially, the word from the doctor is that I'm progressing above their expectations and that everything is healthy.

My goal is to get to 190ish pounds at a reasonably maintainable BF% (i'm hoping around 8-12%)

Also i'd like to add that im taking 35mg per day of phendimetrazine as well as b6, potassium/magnesium supplements, and a multivitamin....the phendi is an Rx and the supps are otc provided by the doc. 

I also have been lifting weights regularly ( 4 days a week) for about a year and a half. I can post the workout...i put it together that year and a half ago based on the stickies here..i suppose i can post it again if cowpimp or pfunk or whoever reads this and feels like reviewing it. But yea, after starting the program...i've had to cut the intensity. Also i'd say my cardio was relatively limited. I'd play about two or so hours of full court basketball a couple times a week...or an hour or two of racquetball..but no HIIT or anything formal like that.


but yea....what do you guys think?


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## Built (Jun 8, 2008)

Honestly, the diet plan looks like crap - anything that reduces caloric intake will get weight off you. The trick is to drop FAT, retain muscle, and then KEEP the weight off. What I saw is just a gimmick.


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## Marat (Jun 8, 2008)

actually concerning goal weight...i'd like some help with this. Haha at school we just learned the 106# + 6lbs x height in inches over 5 feet

so for me that works out to 106 x (6 x 9)...or 160 pounds...that seems kinda small.

but yea i looked it up on the internet and what im getting is to perform this calculation.

Initial BF = 276 x 31% = 85.6 #BF
Lean Body Mass = 276 - 85.6 = 190
Pounds BF = 276# x 12% = 33.1#BF     (the 12% is goal BF%)

LBM + BF at ideal percentage = goal weight
190 + 33.1 = 223.1#

so by that it says that at 5'9" and my build i should be at 223 pounds @ 12% BF.

does that work out?


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## Marat (Jun 8, 2008)

Built said:


> Honestly, the diet plan looks like crap - anything that reduces caloric intake will get weight off you. The trick is to drop FAT, retain muscle, and then KEEP the weight off. What I saw is just a gimmick.




actually i completely agree with you. When i saw the program  i completely thought it was ridiculous. However, i had someone else willing to pay for it... i figured i'd give it a shot. What i was hoping was that i'd be able to get something of a jump start using this program...basically a sped up way to start losing weight...and then hope to fall back on what i know about nutrition etc to hold me together. Basically get myself out of the nutritional laziness i've been. Like im very aware that weightloss is a slow process...however its of course very demoralizing when you dont see results ( i know, same bullshit everyone says...i know to suck it up and stop complaining)..but yea...thats the situation im in.  But yea, im looking at this as a way to lose some weight and then maintain it with proper nutrition.


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## Built (Jun 8, 2008)

How fast have you lost with this?


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## Marat (Jun 8, 2008)

Built said:


> How fast have you lost with this?



almost 25 pounds in 30 days


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## Built (Jun 9, 2008)

Um, you are going to lose all your size. I guarantee you rebound weight gain. Damn. 

How often do they implement refeeds, and what is the "exit plan"?


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## Marat (Jun 9, 2008)

the doctor didnt implement any formal refeed days. the starvation mode situation was something i was concerned with from the beginning. Its actually something i wanted to address with him. I was thinking that a higher carb day every week or so would be a good idea.

The exit strategy is along the lines of when i get closer to  my goal weight to slowly begin to increase my calories to a more normal/maintenance intake at around 2200 cals...using normal food. My goal is to maintain that weight for a while and not focus on muscular hypertrophy right away...but to get my eating habits together.


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## Built (Jun 9, 2008)

What have your workouts been like?

<shakes head...> No refeeds. Why the hell can't the medical community read a goddamned book...


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## Marat (Jun 9, 2008)

haha i know the idea of movements not body parts...but i'll still break it down with the chest/tri back/bi type deal...id also appreciate any advice on this as well...haha i've actually been reading your blog for the last hour or so so yea...advice would be cool

the days im using are more for reference than the actual days i do everything...but the order is more or less the same...sometimes i do biceps on the day i'd do triceps and vice versa..just to mix it up...also i substitute some exercises every once in awhile when i see some one doing something interesting...i go to a large university...so there are always plenty of athletes working out in the gym....so i try to squeeze some advice from their trainers when they feel chatty


anyway..this was my workout when i was 276lbs...ive been able to retain everything so far more or less....the leg numbers have dropped about 20% i'd say
Monday
Chest/ Tri/ "abs"...just to mention...my consecutive dips record is currently at 3...so thats why i dont have those...and yes the assisted machines are there but the wait is almost not worth it
Flat Barbell Bench: 185lb 1x8
                  205lb 2x6-7
                  225lb 2x5-6

Incline Dumbell Press: 65lb 1 x 8
                                  70lb 1 x 8
                                  70 or 75 1x about 6

Flat Dumbell Fly (im actually moving away from this...even after awhile and help from some athletic trainers....i feel like i cant get the form down perfectly every time..even at low weight....but some days i feel like i can 'slot' the dumbells into the correct position and it feels great

                          3x8  45/50lbs

Skull Crushers: 2 or 3 x10ish like 80/85lbs
Tricep Pulldowns: 2 or 3 sets of 10

various Captains Chair ab exercises and on that bench type apparatus where you hang ur feet up and hang upside down and do core strengthening exercises


Tuesday
Deadlift/back/bi....(pull up record is at about 7/8ths)
SL Deadlifts:  2 x 10 205
                    1 x 8  225
                    1  x 8  245

Lateral pull downs  2x 10  195
                            1 x 8   205
                            1 x 8   215

Bent over rows :  3 x 10 100lbs

Seated rows (they kinda do shoulders as well but i do them on this day)        3 x 8-10

Standing Barbell curls   3x8-10

Seated Preacher barbell curls (*that may not be the actual name but i think it describes it aptly*)  3 x 8-10

Thursday 
Squats/Legs/ "abs"

Squats ( i wouldnt  call them ATG...blown out knee..yada yada...but i get down to almost 90degrees now):  
               2 x 8 225
               1 x 6 275
               1 x 6 315
               1 x 4  335

Leg Press:   1x10   360
                  1 x 10 540
                  1 x 8-10 720


Calf raises: couple sets


 same various Captains Chair ab exercises and on that bench type apparatus where you hang ur feet up and hang upside down and do core strengthening exercises

Saturday
Shoulders, sometimes i do deadlifts first here instead of the day i do back just to spread the load a little

Seated Barbell Military Press (behind the neck style): 
                1x 10 95
                2x 8-10 115
                1-2 x 8-10 135

Barbell Upright rows   3x10 95-105 depending on how im feeling

Um arms out to your side lifting them up so you make a T shape with your body Row (?): 3x8ish  35lb


Row where you lift both dumbells out in front of you..lifting them up to below your eye level row : 3x8ish 35lb


thats about it....again, criticisms would be great


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## Built (Jun 9, 2008)

Actually, not horrible. Really, I've seen far, far worse. I'm honestly relieved - I see bench press, real squats, deadlifts... good. 

I'd swap out Arnies and Olympic bar corner presses for upright rows. Make sure you do your lat work with a shoulder-width or narrower grip. Also, switch out leg press for front squats if you're feeling brave. 

Can you at least give us your macronutrient mix while on this diet?


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## Marat (Jun 9, 2008)

they are low...and from what i know...they are much lower than what is considered healthy..the reason why i wouldnt recommend this program to anyone. The idea is that i dont think most people have the desire to eat so little.  And with the exit strategy in mind, the idea is to start eating  a little more every week or so after you have basically reached goal weight, until you are up to maintenance caloric intake. I think i would find that most people would begin gorging themselves once they are off the plan, and therefore rebound weight gain. Im hoping that by the end of this program, i'll be in the habit of keeping my diet clean, and that won't be an issue.....but with that said... im just going with what the doc says regarding how much food im eating during the plan

Macros:  Fat: 25g  = 225cal
             Carbs: 80g = 320cal
             Protein: 70g = 280cal
                         Total = 825cal/day
and of course im not consuming any alcohol or anything like that so there are no additional  calories from those  kind of 'hidden sources'.


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## Marat (Jun 9, 2008)

Built said:


> I'd swap out Arnies and Olympic bar corner presses for upright rows.





i have some upright rows in there on 'shoulder day'....do you recommend i do more? Or is there another exercise you'd recommend?


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## Built (Jun 9, 2008)

m11 said:


> they are low...and from what i know...they are much lower than what is considered healthy..the reason why i wouldnt recommend this program to anyone. The idea is that i dont think most people have the desire to eat so little.  And with the exit strategy in mind, the idea is to start eating  a little more every week or so after you have basically reached goal weight, until you are up to maintenance caloric intake. I think i would find that most people would begin gorging themselves once they are off the plan, and therefore rebound weight gain. Im hoping that by the end of this program, i'll be in the habit of keeping my diet clean, and that won't be an issue.....but with that said... im just going with what the doc says regarding how much food im eating during the plan
> 
> Macros:  Fat: 25g  = 225cal
> Carbs: 80g = 320cal
> ...


You need a different plan babe. Your protein need during this type of diet is far greater than the standard minimum. 

Go buy and read this: Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss Handbook

And ditch this current diet right the fuck away.


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## Marat (Jun 9, 2008)

thanks for your help Built, i'll look into that book


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## Built (Jun 9, 2008)

You lost a lot of weight doing what you're doing. The problem is you don't want to just lose weight - you want to lose FAT.

A pound of fat holds about 3500 stored calories.
A pound of muscle? Well, I looked up sirloin on the USDA nutrient database a while back and a pound was about 600 calories.

What does that mean? Well, it means a 3500 calorie deficit can drop a pound of fat, or almost SIX pounds of muscle.

You lost 25 lbs in 30 days on about 825 calories a day. 

Suppose maintenance for you was 2800 calories a day. So for 30 days you've run a deficit of about 2000 calories a day.

This works out to 2000 x 30 days = 60,000 calories. If it were all from fat, you dropped 17 lbs of fat. But you dropped 25 lbs, not 17. 

Setting up some simple math shows a frightening result if my assumptions are correct:
Let x = fat pounds
Let y = muscle pounds

3500x + 600y = 60000 <- total energy lost from fat and muscle came to 60000 calories
x + y = 25 <- total weight lost from fat and muscle came to 25 lbs

Solving these simultaneous equations yields the following rather unpleasant result:

x = 15
y = 10
*
Translation*: if my assumptions are correct, you lost 15 lbs of fat and 10 lbs of muscle.


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## Marat (Jun 9, 2008)

thank you built i appreciate that.....it was definitely a large concern from the start that this program would catabolize my muscle tissue. However, I was assured by the doctor that the rate of muscle catabolization would be insignifcant in relation to the amount of fat loss. Its something i'd have to go over again with him in detail at this 1 month mark. Are their any other concerns you think I should go over with him? From the start, i was skeptical and I told him that i dont think that this program is particularly smart or safe. He told me he was open to modifying the program to what i think fits my needs...but i agreed to do his plan for a little. I figured with my 2 years into my nutrition major...i should acquiesce to the guy with the M.D/RDA.


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## Built (Jun 9, 2008)

Have you ever known a bodybuilder who went to see the doctor for cutting advice?


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## Marat (Jun 9, 2008)

for now, i'm gonna go get a breakdown of body composition now and compare it to what it was when i started. Best case scenario for me is that the loss is mostly fat and water...and minimal muscle loss. If youre interested in an update on the breakdown, Built, im heading to the doc tomorrow and i can post how it went


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## Marat (Jun 9, 2008)

i was also wondering if anyone else who has come across this thread have any opinions or comments on this situation


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## Built (Jun 9, 2008)

The only way you'll know how you really did is if you get a DEXA full-body x-ray. Otherwise, you won't know. If they use one of those bioelectrical impedance things, don't even worry about it. The error margin on those things is HUGE, and it varies with your glycogen and water levels. Useless, especially for extreme dieters.


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## Marat (Jun 9, 2008)

when losing weight...i feel like some muscle loss in inevitable. Of course not 10 of 25lbs...but losing a few pounds of muscle for every 15 or 20 lbs of fat i feel is acceptable.   Do you feel that is true? When you lost some weight, did you take any muscle with it?


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## Built (Jun 9, 2008)

m11 said:


> when losing weight...i feel like some muscle loss in inevitable. Of course not 10 of 25lbs...but losing a few pounds of muscle for every 15 or 20 lbs of fat i feel is acceptable.   Do you feel that is true? When you lost some weight, did you take any muscle with it?



Sure, some muscle-loss is inevitable. The thing is, if you do it right, the muscle-loss is minimal. Furthermore, if you do it right, you might actually GAIN a tiny bit of muscle in the initial stages of a cut, particularly if you're significantly overfat to begin with. Lyle's diet that I linked you to, if you MUST crash-diet, that's the one to use because it is scientifically designed to minimize muscle loss: protein is kept very high, you perform two short, heavy, low-volume workouts a week to preserve lean mass, and you employ regular carbohydrate refeeds.

It's the optimal way to crash diet. 

The way you are doing it - very low protein, very low calories, no refeeds and no heavy lifting - that's the worst way. 

Sorry.


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## Marat (Jun 9, 2008)

i noticed it at the bottom of the page and you mentioned it yourself...when do you feel it is appropriate to crash diet....im looking for an answer besides 'never'...if one exists


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## Triple Threat (Jun 9, 2008)

Built said:


> x + y = 25 <- total weight lost from fat and muscle came to 25 lbs
> 
> Solving these simultaneous equations yields the following rather unpleasant result:
> 
> ...



If x + y = 25, how can x = 25 and y = 10?


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## Marat (Jun 9, 2008)

Triple Threat said:


> If x + y = 25, how can x = 25 and y = 10?



she meant 15...if you run the numbers again using her equation....its comes out to like 15.5 and 9.5


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## Built (Jun 9, 2008)

Thank you for the catch. I transcribed it wrong from the paper napkin I was working on, in my haste.


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## Marat (Jun 9, 2008)

built, based on the values you have of my bf, weight etc...would you be able to help me out with coming up an idea of what would be macronutrient breakdowns that you would recommend for cutting fat the most efficient way. I feel like the process is different for trying to lose 50 pounds and cut body fat in half  that of trying to lose 6 pounds and going from 10% to 8%.   (just buy that guys book is acceptable as well)


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## Built (Jun 9, 2008)

*Fast way:* buy the guy's book.  I can help you work out the details once you've read it.

*Slow way: *Got Built? » Open Source Fitness - Get started here Read the carb-cycling article. 

In either event: short, heavy workouts.


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## Marat (Jun 9, 2008)

thanks for the help built, as soon as i can figure out where i put my wallet i'll order the book and give it a read


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## Marat (Jun 10, 2008)

so i spoke to the doctor today.

I didnt have the information from the book to show him that approach, but I basically explained him the key ideas (1g/1lb of LBM protein, essentially only incidental carbohydrates and vegetables, refeeds etc).

He says he's aware of the protein sparing, but feels that the macro intake that he has me with the program is far safer and  suggests that he's been doing it for many years and that this  program works very well. He talked about the exit strategy with me and about moving to regular foods a little later. 

I talked with him about the intake split. The book recommends that I intake 193g of protein per day. He said that because im not looking for muscle growth, more just maintaining my LBM, that i only need less than half of that....about 88 grams/day or 1g/kg of LBM. He also said that the 193g of protein would be too taxing on my liver.  Although my protein intake isn't at 88grams now...he said that he was planning on raising my protein intake to that.


I asked him about losing LBM. He suggested of the 23 pounds that i have lost, about 8lbs are water, and about 13-14 pounds are fat. He said that it is impossible for me  to lose over 1lb of LBM and that most likely i lost about 0.5-0.8lbs over the course of the month at the most. He also talked about how the LBM loss will come from supporting connective tissue  loss. He said that with this program, he has never seen anyone lose more than 2pounds of LBM.

thats what i remember from the conversation so far.

thoughts?


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## Built (Jun 10, 2008)

m11 said:


> so i spoke to the doctor today.
> 
> I didnt have the information from the book to show him that approach, but I basically explained him the key ideas (1g/1lb of LBM protein, essentially only incidental carbohydrates and vegetables, refeeds etc).
> 
> He says he's aware of the protein sparing, but feels that the macro intake that he has me with the program is far safer



Safer - how? Because it will force your body to drop more muscle? 



m11 said:


> and  suggests that he's been doing it for many years and that this  program works very well. He talked about the exit strategy with me and about moving to regular foods a little later.
> 
> I talked with him about the intake split. The book recommends that I intake 193g of protein per day. He said that because im not looking for muscle growth, more just maintaining my LBM, that i only need less than half of that....about 88 grams/day or 1g/kg of LBM.



Exactly what kind of moron thinks you can GAIN muscle while running a caloric deficit like this? 




m11 said:


> He also said that the 193g of protein would be too taxing on my liver.  Although my protein intake isn't at 88grams now...he said that he was planning on raising my protein intake to that.



There is absolutely no evidence that a healthy person will suffer harm from eating a high-protein diet. I weigh a buck forty soaking wet and I eat about 200g protein daily. Not only am I telling you to demonstrate protein doesn't kill ALL it's victims, but that I feel confident enough in this advice that I follow it myself. Ask him for evidence that a high protein intake will harm your liver. Peer reviewed, not speculative. Something that was tested experimentally. Hell, even a single case-study of an individual with no pre-existing liver or kidney problem who has suffered harm. 




m11 said:


> I asked him about losing LBM. He suggested of the 23 pounds that i have lost, about 8lbs are water, and about 13-14 pounds are fat. He said that it is impossible for me  to lose over 1lb of LBM and that most likely i lost about 0.5-0.8lbs over the course of the month at the most.


So stupid??¢â???¬??¦ 




m11 said:


> He also talked about how the LBM loss will come from supporting connective tissue  loss. He said that with this program, he has never seen anyone lose more than 2pounds of LBM.
> 
> thats what i remember from the conversation so far.
> 
> thoughts?



He graduated at the very bottom of his class and hasn't read anything since his last final exam?


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## Marat (Jun 10, 2008)

i really dont know what direction i should take. Difficulty of sticking to a routine isn't an issue. My problem with weight loss is clear to me. My problem is organizing my intake...more than worrying about cheating or not exercising or anything like that. I feel better when i eat good and i love to weight lift hard...cardio outside of full speed basketball and sports etc not so much  . That said, i dont think that either routine is a problem...as they are both very simple and clear what i should be eating. 

And in actuality, i am much more familiar with routines that are closer to what the book says. However, i dont know i would take the authors word over this individual doctor...as there are many doctors that argue the same point as my doc. Similarly though, the people who execute these regiments with 'high' protein intake still remain in perfect health.

So essentially im not sure what i want to do. Right now, i feel like i'm going to stick with this for a month and look at my stats again after 2 months into the program.


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## Built (Jun 10, 2008)

If the medical community really knows so damned much about weight loss, why are so many of us fat? 
Find me a single case where someone has been harmed by high protein intake. 

And for the record, 193g isn't all that high for you. It isn't even all that high for me. 

In a diet you are under significant oxidative stress. This INCREASES your need for protein, to remain in a nitrogen-positive state. Ask your doctor to explain that one maybe... 

I can see how frustrating this must be for you. It's very difficult for me to watch this because I see it SO often. Your current diet will cause you harm but it won't kill you. Lyle's plan will serve you better because it's actually science-based. Your doctor's plan, believe it or not, is not.


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## Built (Jun 10, 2008)

John Berardi - Dear Mom and Dad

also John Berardi - Protein Prejudice


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## Marat (Jun 10, 2008)

needless to say, i'm not positive what kind of decision i want to make. On one hand, i feel that lyle's plan would fit perfectly and i'd have no issue executing it. His style is essentially what i've been learning from articles and forums  as well as advice from 'successful' people around the gym. Basically everything that i've learned about nutrition over the last couple years is by people who have gotten themselves to the goals that i want to reach. On the other hand, the plan i am on now potentially is yielding similar results ( i know at this point you may be banging your head as that statement may be absolutely ridiculous....and i am aware of that).  Its not a lie that this doctor has been successful with his plan. However, the goals of the people he is dealing with are different from mine. I feel that i am willing to put in the effort and discipline to get myself to that 10% percent body fat...maybe a percent or two less. I feel that that is a reasonable goal...i dont think i can maintain  or 5 or 6 percent like a show bodybuilder  or NFL cornerback would. Yet, the goal of the plan i am on now is to make me drop the fat. Get me to a point where i am at the 15% range, and then have me take it from there---PSMF or whatever else i choose.  That said, would you think it would be a terrible decision to go with this plan for a few more weeks. Get my 2month bf% test in (one month from now), and check those results?

also if possible, i'd appreciate it if you'd be able to help me out with figuring out where i actually stand in my fitness.  Im aware of the obvious limitations of the internet, but maybe with the stats you can give me an idea of where i stand against the average. Just an additional note, although it might not bear a terrible amount of effect, if you were to look at me....you wouldnt think that i am someone with a BMI of 40 (as of last month). I am overweight, but it appears that i may be like 25-35lbs over...compared to how other regular 5'9 people look when they are that much overweight. I suppose i can provide you pictures if you'd like...its only of benefit to me...but its up to you

anyways...the stats as of last month before i started the program i am on is :    20yrs 5'9'' 276lbs ~30.1%BF
                             ....however now a month later....i weighed in at 253 this afternoon. 

of course you have no obligation to help...but whatever effort you feel like putting in would be great. Youve already be of more than enough help.


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## Marat (Jun 10, 2008)

just to add, i personally dont really need convincing of lyle's diet. I believe in it entirely. Im going to go ahead and print out those articles to bring to my doctor on thursday to discuss.


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## Built (Jun 10, 2008)

You know what you should do. You don't want to mess with what you see as a temporary "good thing", only it ain't.

Let me know when you do PSMF and I'll help you set it up.


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## Marat (Jun 10, 2008)

sounds good, thanks


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