# Alternative to Barbell Bent Rows



## cappo5150 (Jan 6, 2012)

The last few times I've tried doing Bent Rows my lower back gives out. Like it cant support that weight while leaning over. What would be some good alternatives for this movement? How about replacing it with the TBar row or maybe the Hammerstrength Machine Low Row? 

Thanks for any suggestions.


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## D-Lats (Jan 6, 2012)

Try wearing a belt. You can do them on a shith machine or a cable machine. I really like the Hammer low row myself.


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## bjg (Jan 6, 2012)

you should not feel your lower back , your knees must be bent a little and your thighs must be supporting you while your back is straight (stick your ass out) same position for the T bar if you can't do properly do one arm rows and cable rows sitting down or any equivalent machine


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## vancouver (Jan 6, 2012)

cappo5150 said:


> The last few times I've tried doing Bent Rows my lower back gives out. Like it cant support that weight while leaning over. What would be some good alternatives for this movement? How about replacing it with the TBar row or maybe the Hammerstrength Machine Low Row?
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions.


 
There is no replacement. Anything you do which does not involve the stablizer muscles will only make your lower back worse and eventually lead to injury, assuming you are healty to begin with. Add stiff leg deads and regular deads to your routine; continue to do bent over BB rows with less weight and better form. In a few months you'll be going heavy again...

Form could be the problem to begin with. Your knees should be bent to take the strain off your lower back, head up and I like to be at around 115-125 degrees; others like 90 degrees. Play around with form.


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## cappo5150 (Jan 6, 2012)

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I do incorporate deadlifts already and have no problems with it. I'll keep it up and just drop the weight down and get better form.


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## Gissurjon (Jan 6, 2012)

cappo5150 said:


> The last few times I've tried doing Bent Rows my lower back gives out. Like it cant support that weight while leaning over. What would be some good alternatives for this movement? How about replacing it with the TBar row or maybe the Hammerstrength Machine Low Row?
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions.



Strengthen you lower back. (period) 

The good thing about movements like that is they expose your weaknesses, you would be a fool to ignore that.


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## the_predator (Jan 6, 2012)

What I like to do to mix things up is when I am bored is...lie on an incline bench(make sure the incline is not to much), grab some dumbbells(arms almost extended to the ground) and pull them up to your lats. You can vary the grip(underhand ,overhand, beer can) to what ever you prefer. This movement is alot like bent rows except more strict because your upperbody is braced. This will also help with your lower back and not having to bend over. I would have to say that I agree with most of the above posts. Make sure your spinal errectors are strong enough to handle the weight and make sure to practice good form when doing bent rows.


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## KILLEROFSAINTS (Jan 6, 2012)

sounds like you are bent over too far....stand up a little straighter...its a power move...not even the 70s guys  did it without rockin some


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## caaraa (Jan 6, 2012)

Try wearing a belt. You can do them on a shith machine or a cable machine.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jan 7, 2012)

cappo5150 said:


> The last few times I've tried doing Bent Rows my lower back gives out. Like it cant support that weight while leaning over. What would be some good alternatives for this movement? How about replacing it with the TBar row or maybe the Hammerstrength Machine Low Row?
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions.



*Lower Back During Bent Over Row*

Performing a Bent Over Row, places the lower back in the weakest part of it's strength curve.  

Individuals with long torso, especially have this problem. 

*Isometric Erector Exercise*

During the Bent Over Row, the erectors perform a isometric action.  

During any isometric exercise, the muscle/muscles involved are going to "Give out."  

*Pause Squat Example*

1) Squat down to parallel.

2) Then hold the in the parallel position for about 10 seconds.  

Your legs are going to give out at some point, just as your lower back does with Bent Over Rows. 

*Diminished Lower Back Endurance Capacity*

Another characteristic is that the lower back tires quickly and is easily overtrained.  

That means one of the limiting factors in any movement is the lower back, no matter how strong your lower back is.  

*Squat Example*

During a squat the lower back performs an isometric action.  Thus, one of the biggest limiting factors in a squat exercise is the lower back.  

The lower back "Give out" long before the leg do.  

That means you legs are NEVER completely overloaded during a squat.  

I've addressed this issue in previous posts.  

*Same With Bent Over Rows*

Just as with the squat, the same takes place with Bent Over Rows.  You lower back "Gives out" before your lats do.  

*Posted Suggestions*

Some of the solution suggested will help. 

1) Wearing a belt.  This provides some support/stability for the lower back.  However, there are better lower back supportive methods.  

2) Strengthening your lower back.  This helps to some extent but it does not eliminate the problem.  

3) Positioning your Bent Over Row at a better angle.  This simply repositions the fulcrum.  By doing so, you decreasing the load on the lower back.  

Chaning the angle changes the exercise.  That means the lats are worked differently.  

Utilizing these method does allow you to overload the last a little more.  However, there are more effective methods.  

*Deleting The Weak Link In The Chain *

To create a great overload on the lats (work them more effetively), you need to take you lower back out (weak link) out the equation.  

Perform lat movements that that provide some support for you lower back takes the weak link/lower back out of the equation.  

*Recommendations: *

Dumbbell Bent-over Row

Placing one arm on the bench as you perform a dumbbell row, provide support for your lower back.  

Thus, allowing your greater loads (weight) or higher repetitions to work the lats.  

Lever Wide Grip Seated Row (high bar, plate loaded)

The chest pad in this exercise, provides support for you lower back.  

Thus, it too allows you to use greater loads (more weight) or higher repetitions to work the lats. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## ironlifter (Jan 7, 2012)

cappo5150 said:


> The last few times I've tried doing Bent Rows my lower back gives out. Like it cant support that weight while leaning over. What would be some good alternatives for this movement? How about replacing it with the TBar row or maybe the Hammerstrength Machine Low Row?
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions.



from the view of "point of flexon" bent over barbell rows is contraction exercise for middle back. you can do wide grip cable row as an alternative. 

T-bar rows allows middle back to more stretch. if barbell rows hurt you then t-bar also cause pain. btw build strong core muscle to support heavy lifting.


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## Curlingcadys (Jan 7, 2012)

Gissurjon said:


> Strengthen you lower back. (period)
> 
> The good thing about movements like that is they expose your weaknesses, you would be a fool to ignore that.


 
+1

nicely said and I 100% agree. 

As just said, you revealed an area that needs work, capitalize on that and get it stronger; it'll bennefit you so much more. Do specific exercises for that and you can still do row variations to keep working your back and it will all come together down the road.  At least you exposed it in such a way that you can simply know you need to strengthen it vs exposing it via injury. Now take advantage.


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## Gazhole (Jan 8, 2012)

Could try pendlay rows: row the bar off the floor from a dead stop, then on the way down extend your arms fully so that the bar finishes on the floor each rep. Another option is to do these in a rack or cage with the pins at the lowest possible setting.

I like these because you can row really heavy weights but the stress isn't constantly on the lower back throughout the sets. If anything, this improves my rowing form because i'm not trying to "race" my lower back to finish the set before it fatigues.

If you switch to this exercise you can also add an extra lower back exercise in like high rep hyperextensions.


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## Cork (Jan 8, 2012)

There is no such thing as bending over too far.

I don't see how the smith machine will fix anything.


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## Usealittle (Jan 9, 2012)

Do them on a incline bench with DBs... I do then as a change to my normal bent row.


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## ALBOB (Jan 10, 2012)

cappo5150 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions guys. *I do incorporate deadlifts already and have no problems with it*. I'll keep it up and just drop the weight down and get better form.



You have no problems with deadlifts but your lower back gives out on barbell rows?  Sure sounds like you're not using proper form during your rowing.  Are you sure you're arching your back enough?  Make sure to bring your head WAAAAAAY back and squeeze those lats at the top of the movement.  When you lower the weight only your arms should move, don't let your head come down or lose any of the arch in your back.


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## caaraa (Jan 11, 2012)

You can do them on a shith machine or a cable machine.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jan 11, 2012)

ALBOB said:


> You have no problems with deadlifts but your lower back gives out on barbell rows?  Sure sounds like you're not using proper form during your rowing.  Are you sure you're arching your back enough?  Make sure to bring your head WAAAAAAY back and squeeze those lats at the top of the movement.  When you lower the weight only your arms should move, don't let your head come down or lose any of the arch in your back.



*Lower Back Fatigue With Bent Over Rows*

As I noted in my post above, lower back fatigue is a characteristic when performing Bent Over Rows. 

*Isometric Erector Exercise*

When performing a Bent Over Row, the eretors perform an isometric action. 

Performing an isometric action with any muscle group tires it quickly.  

The erectors tire more quickly that most other muscle groups.  

*Angle*

The angle of lower back in the Benh Over Row is one of the determinate factors in how long you lower back can maintain that position.  

*90 Degree Angles*

This place the lower back in a weaker position.  Thus, you lower back cannot maintain the position very long, no matter how strong it is. 

*45 Degree Angle*

This places the lower back in a much stonger postiion.  Thus, it is able to maintain a 45 Degree Angle much longer than a 90 Degree Angle. 

*Back Supported Rows*

That one of the reason you have back supported rowing machines.  

These machines allow you to maximize you upper back development by taking your lower back (your weak link) out of equation.  

*Leg Press*

The Leg Press does the same thing.  It takes the lower back out of the equation, thus allowing you to maximize you legs.  

*Deadlift Strength*

While deadlift strength corrolates to lower back strength, it does NOT preclude lower back strength endurance for sustained isometric actions such as that performed during a Bent Over Row. 

*Summary:* 

To effectively overload (maximize) you upper back training, you need to take the stabilizer muscles for movements such as the Bent Over Row out of the equation.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## ALBOB (Jan 11, 2012)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> *Lower Back Fatigue With Bent Over Rows*
> 
> As I noted in my post above, lower back fatigue is a characteristic when performing Bent Over Rows.



Oh, FATIGUE.  I assumed he meant it gave out as in a disk bulged or something like that.  "Giving out" means something different to us old farts. My bad.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jan 12, 2012)

ALBOB said:


> Oh, FATIGUE.  I assumed he meant it gave out as in a disk bulged or something like that.  "Giving out" means something different to us old farts. My bad.



*Old*

Actaully, I am older than you.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## ALBOB (Jan 12, 2012)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> *Old*
> 
> Actaully, I am older than you.
> 
> Kenny Croxdale



And probably wiser too.  I'm in PT right now for a bulging disk.  That's why I made the assumption that's what the OP was talking about.  Again, my bad for making an assumption.


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## SloppyJ (Jan 12, 2012)

If you can do T-bar rows and not have that problem then it's a form issue IMO. Don't go too heavy. When i go heavy my lower back hurts also. Rows really work the core because you have to be in control of the weight at all times.


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