# Why do so many people have an undeveloped chest?



## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

This muscle gets workout by most people more than any, but few have a good chest! This doesnt make sense! I see people do what probably is the most known bodybuilding exercise (bench press) and yet they might put up good numbers, they have a small chest. SOMETHINGS NOT RIGHTand there must be another exercise that can produce chest growth. I dont do decline exercises for chest because I already have a good lower chest, but maybe doing the will simulate growth overall?  

Does anybody else have an better explanation why a lot of people have an undeveloped chest?


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## Randy (Jul 6, 2005)

I knew a few bodybuilders that pressed huge numbers, but they didn't have much chest definition. This was because they had a lot of body fat. To achieve maximum defination of your muscles you need a combination of things, primarily a good diet/nutrician and the right workout routine. You must try to hit all your chest muscles to get a nice uniform chest build. 

 The guys that press large numbers can have lots of chest muscle, but can be covered by fat so you can't see it. Once they burn off the fat then it will expose their muscle and best display their muscular definition.


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## FishOrCutBait (Jul 6, 2005)

Well, most people dont train their pectoralis minor, which is hit in db pullovers, and the pectoralis minor, if left untrained, could theoretically inhibit growth. This is my gym science answer...


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## shiznit2169 (Jul 6, 2005)

bench press is 90% delt work, and depends on their BF. That's why they dont have a well defined chest. They need to do all variation of exercises to hit all parts of the pecs.


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## Tough Old Man (Jul 6, 2005)

IMO the best exercise for the pectoralis minors would be weighted chest bar dips. 



			
				FishOrCutBait said:
			
		

> Well, most people dont train their pectoralis minor, which is hit in db pullovers, and the pectoralis minor, if left untrained, could theoretically inhibit growth. This is my gym science answer...


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

triceps and delts do a lot of bench work.... i dont know if i agree about hitting a muscle from all angles, but changing your routine every 4 or 5 weeks along with using proper isolation work along with proper TUT will build your pecs to their fullest potential


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## Randy (Jul 6, 2005)

There's ole Camaro....whatup man?  
 Where's Duncan hiding?


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## GFR (Jul 6, 2005)

I think I know the answer.......some people have sh1tty genetics


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## Randy (Jul 6, 2005)

That's ok Camaro.... I guess I don't deserve a response.


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## animalmachine (Jul 6, 2005)

genetics, poor diet, overtraining, failure to change routine - could be any or all


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

sorry im here    whats up


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

FishOrCutBait said:
			
		

> Well, most people dont train their pectoralis minor, which is hit in db pullovers, and the pectoralis minor, if left untrained, could theoretically inhibit growth. This is my gym science answer...



Pectoralis minor.......I hate pullovers! Know any other exercises that work the minor?


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## GFR (Jul 6, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Pectoralis minor.......I hate pullovers! Know any other exercises that work the minor?


Bench press, Incline, Decline.....get the idea


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## animalmachine (Jul 6, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Pectoralis minor.......I hate pullovers! Know any other exercises that work the minor?




So, I take it that you are one those suffering this small chest disease?  

You don't need to do dumbell pullovers - flat, incline and decline will work fine... change up the order you do these in your routine every few weeks, and switch off between barbell and dumbell - lift low rep - heavy weight.  Be sure to consume enough protein and follow good pre and post workout nutrition.


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> IMO the best exercise for the pectoralis minors would be weighted chest bar dips.


Can u really pack on mass by doing dips?


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## FishOrCutBait (Jul 6, 2005)

Heck yah foo. Just use either a weight belt or hold the db between your legs.


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## animalmachine (Jul 6, 2005)

dips are good - i switch between them and decline


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## min0 lee (Jul 6, 2005)

I noticed a few years ago wwhen I reached the top portion of the bench press I gave it a 2 second flex* and it made a helluva a difference. Sometimes we get carrried away with how much we bench press and use too much delts and arms which you can't avoid.
* is that the right word? 
I hope you guys understand what I am saying.


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## Randy (Jul 6, 2005)

animalmachine said:
			
		

> So, I take it that you are one those suffering this small chest disease?


 Nicely phrased,  "The Small Chest Disease!"


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## Witmaster (Jul 6, 2005)




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## shiznit2169 (Jul 6, 2005)

> I noticed a few years ago wwhen I reached the top portion of the bench press I gave it a 2 second flex* and it made a helluva a difference. Sometimes we get carrried away with how much we bench press and use too much delts and arms which you can't avoid.
> * is that the right word?
> I hope you guys understand what I am saying.



yes, you mean a "squeeze". You're right, people think too much about the weight and let their delts/tri's do most of the work. It's important you fully contract and change up the tempo while squeezing at the top to fully develop your chest. But you also need to do different variation of exercises, not just bench press as most guys only do this exercise mainly for ego boost.


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## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

thats all bullshit, it's actually simple. Those people with un developed chest dont Bench correctly, dont give there chest the proper burn and dont eat and diet correctly thats it.


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## min0 lee (Jul 6, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> yes, you mean a "squeeze". You're right, people think too much about the weight and let their delts/tri's do most of the work. It's important you fully contract and change up the tempo while squeezing at the top to fully develop your chest. But you also need to do different variation of exercises, not just bench press as most guys only do this exercise mainly for ego boost.


Thanks, I just went through my usual brain lock.

I noticed a lot of people just push the weight up and down without focusing on the muscle. 

Hey Shiznit, see........ I don't always spam.


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## min0 lee (Jul 6, 2005)

dAMvN said:
			
		

> thats all bullshit, it's actually simple. Those people with un developed chest dont Bench correctly, dont give there chest the proper burn and dont eat and diet correctly thats it.


Then what is the proper way?


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## Randy (Jul 6, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> I noticed a lot of people just push the weight up and down without focusing on the muscle.


  We're not talking about that muscle MinO


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## min0 lee (Jul 6, 2005)

Randy said:
			
		

> We're not talking about that muscle MinO


 You dick.


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## Randy (Jul 6, 2005)




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## min0 lee (Jul 6, 2005)

Randy said:
			
		

>


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## shiznit2169 (Jul 6, 2005)

> Thanks, I just went through my usual brain lock.
> 
> I noticed a lot of people just push the weight up and down without focusing on the muscle.
> 
> Hey Shiznit, see........ I don't always spam.



  i have no problem with you at all mino. Just the other two *cough* you know who im talking about *cough*

by the way, how do you guys quote the person's name like above ^^^. Everytime i quote someone, its just the words and not their name included.


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## min0 lee (Jul 6, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> i have no problem with you at all mino. Just the other two *cough* you know who im talking about *cough*


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## Randy (Jul 6, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> i have no problem with you at all mino. Just the other two *cough* you know who im talking about *cough*
> 
> by the way, how do you guys quote the person's name like above ^^^. Everytime i quote someone, its just the words and not their name included.


 When you respond to a message just click the quote button in the lower right corner of the recipients original message.  Then it will tag the name automatically.


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## LAM (Jul 6, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> I noticed a lot of people just push the weight up and down without focusing on the muscle.



I think that is the number 1 reason with genetics being number 2.


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## Randy (Jul 6, 2005)

My chest is coming out.  My girlfriend said that if I don't slowdown I might have bigger boobies then she does


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## Randy (Jul 6, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> I think that is the number 1 reason with genetics being number 2.


 
  LAM always had a nice genetic composure.
    Here he is during a casual pose ...


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

dAMvN said:
			
		

> dont give there chest the proper burn.


And excatly how do u do this?


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## min0 lee (Jul 6, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> I think that is the number 1 reason with genetics being number 2.


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

Randy said:
			
		

> LAM always had nice genetics...
> Here he is during a casual pose ...



This man is part of an government experiment.


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## min0 lee (Jul 6, 2005)

Pathetic.


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## Randy (Jul 6, 2005)

Well he wanted big arms... He got em .
 I think it's hillarious everytime I see him.


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## Tough Old Man (Jul 6, 2005)

Now that wouldn't be Old toughy and Dr. E would it?



			
				shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> i have no problem with you at all mino. Just the other two *cough* you know who im talking about *cough*
> 
> by the way, how do you guys quote the person's name like above ^^^. Everytime i quote someone, its just the words and not their name included.


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> bench press is 90% delt work.


Now this is damn stupid! I guess the rest is 5%tricep and 5%chest  since you said something this stupid, everytime you get in an argument with anybody I'm going to post this STUPID ASS STATEMENT! Unless u prove me wrong of course.


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## GFR (Jul 6, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Now this is damn stupid! I guess the rest is 5%tricep and 5%chest  since you said something this stupid, everytime you get in an argument with anybody I'm going to post this STUPID ASS STATEMENT! Unless u prove me wrong of course.


He is 75% wrong again.


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## The Monkey Man (Jul 6, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Now this is damn stupid! I guess the rest is 5%tricep and 5%chest  since you said something this stupid, everytime you get in an argument with anybody I'm going to post this STUPID ASS STATEMENT! Unless u prove me wrong of course.


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

dAMvN said:
			
		

> thats all bullshit, it's actually simple. Those people with un developed chest dont Bench correctly, dont give there chest the proper burn and dont eat and diet correctly thats it.




oh, thats it.... good to know the BURN is oh so important in building muscle

cough RETARD cough


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## min0 lee (Jul 6, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> oh, thats it.... good to know the BURN is oh so important in building muscle
> 
> cough RETARD cough


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## GFR (Jul 6, 2005)

dAMvN said:
			
		

> thats all bullshit, it's actually simple. Those people with un developed chest dont Bench correctly, dont give there chest the proper burn and dont eat and diet correctly thats it.


My dick burns when I pee....but it's not getting bigger.


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> oh, thats it.... good to know the BURN is oh so important in building muscle
> 
> cough RETARD cough


Cough yes it is dumbass cough! This I dont need to feel my muscles getting worked to let me know their getting worked 100% pure donkeyshit! I've been lifting weight for to damn long to believe this insanity!


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Cough yes it is dumbass cough! This I dont need to feel my muscles getting worked to let me know their getting worked 100% pure donkeyshit! I've been lifting weight for to damn long to believe this insanity!




I have no idea what you just said.


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## min0 lee (Jul 6, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> My dick burns when I pee....but it's not getting bigger.


There is no hope for you there but that would be another thread.


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> I have no idea what you just said.


I'm saying two things! ONE! U do need to feel tha burn! TWO your a dumbass for believing u dont! Do u understang that! BITCH!


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## LexusGS (Jul 6, 2005)

lol, this got way outta control.


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> I'm saying two things! ONE! U do need to feel tha burn! TWO your a dumbass for believing u dont! Do u understang that! BITCH!



Do you realize burn can be merely lactic acid buildup, or injury?  Please explain to me why feeling the "burn" is so important to muscle growth Captain Cool Guy?

If I light your pecs on fire, do you think they would be in an anabolic state?

Why dont you head on back to the kiddie pool and play kids your own age.  You dont belong in a bodybuilding forum with grown ass men and women.


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

A few important principles when looking to build muscle and strength ARE

progressive overload
proper TUT of each muscle group
Intensity vs. Volume
Disruption of Homeostasis
Nutrition and Recovery

Nothing wrong with burn, but to say its needed for growth is silly.


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## LAM (Jul 6, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> U do need to feel tha burn!



feeling the burn doesn't mean that you have caused microtrauma to skeletal muscle.


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> Do you realize burn can be merely lactic acid buildup, or injury?  Please explain to me why feeling the "burn" is so important to muscle growth Captain Cool Guy?
> 
> If I light your pecs on fire, do you think they would be in an anabolic state?
> 
> Why dont you head on back to the kiddie pool and play kids your own age.  You dont belong in a bodybuilding forum with grown ass men and women.



Why do you people believe every fucking thing that their told. Everywhere I've felt the burn, I've seen growth. When I dont feel the burn (bench press) I see no growth. Yes the muscle might be sore as fuck my chest is always sore the next day after bench press and it has been these last 1.5 years! But do I feel the burn while on tha bench? No! Have the bench increase my chest size? FUCK NO! Am I doing something wrong? Maybe. Is it because of my diet? Hell no.


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

Believe me when I say I believe very little Im told.  I research and read and experiement before I come to conclusions.  Quit talking like you have some intelligence advantage over people in here and maybe youll learn a thing or two.  

Read up on Brian Johnstons  Exercise Training and Protocol... its a very good read.


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

No pain no gain? Bullshit  No pain more gain? This makes sense!


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

I work out HIT style, dont tell me about pain.  I know all about it.


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## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> oh, thats it.... good to know the BURN is oh so important in building muscle
> 
> cough RETARD cough


Okay, you must have not caught my drift. WHat I ment was if your Chest isint sore within 48 hours of working out ur chest ur slacking up. I see a lot of ppl in the gym and they dont work out to there fullest. You need good posture and heavy weight to get sore so basically if your not sore you didint do shit thats wut im saying.


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

well I definitely agree that most people dont work out to the fullest potential, but burn and soreness really have very little, if anything to do with growth.  Now, Im not saying that if your sore, your NOT growing, but soreness is NOT a prerequisite for growth.


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## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> well I definitely agree that most people dont work out to the fullest potential, but burn and soreness really have very little, if anything to do with growth. Now, Im not saying that if your sore, your NOT growing, but soreness is NOT a prerequisite for growth.


not true, soreness is the key when your sore is when ur body needs the protiens to regain itself and rebuild bigger. Thats basic man sad that you dont know that.


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

its not sad, its common knowledge... you sound like a regurgitated 1995 Issue of Flex Magazine.  Soreness can be many things, like LACTIC ACID buildup.... why do you think burn is a prerequisite for growth... what is your amazing source?


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

and wtf is " the body needs protein to regain itself"   

The body uses the amino acids from protein to repair muscle damage, among other things.. but soreness has nothing to do with any of this.


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## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

dude your going back and forth on the same subject. Let me set it straight.
Fact. You get sore you take your Aminos and your Daily amount of Protien, you sleep you get bigger.
End of it.


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

Maybe thats why your not growing ?


Im not trying to be a dick, but your wrong as can be.  

If you dont believe me, ask around.


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## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

LOL! omg please shhhhhhh. You dont know me. 2nd please show me the light how is this wrong.  "You get sore you take your Aminos and your Daily amount of Protien, you sleep you get bigger"


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

I never said anything about knowing you?

What does getting sore and taking aminos and daily protein (which is the same thing, no?), you sleep you get bigger have to do with anything?  lol... your so vague with everything you say, I dont even understand half of it?

Your muscle growth has TONS of variables..... you need enough nutrition, recovery, intensity, etc for growth. It isnt as simple as " take your aminos, protein, feel the burn and sleep "

lol....

look, if your happy with your progress than by all means keep doing what your doing.  But Im tryin to tell you, that BURN is NOT a prerequsiite for GROWTH.  Its not up for discussion, its a fact.


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## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

omg lol, bye seriously. This is getting dumb. i'm arguing with a person that doesint like to be proven wrong. Ask anyone please, you go to the gym to get sore. You eat and drink your protien to repair and you repair while you sleep. The outcome of all of that in a sequence of months is gettting bigger. lol this is my last post please dont temp me to post again you are seriously trying to confuse ppl so I can look wrong. I know my facts and Money say when u were 145lbs you couldint put up half of the weight I put up. (prolly cant put it up now lol) oh by the way im not trying to sound like a dick.Peace.


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> you sleep you get bigger have to do with anything?  lol... your so vague with everything you say, I dont even understand half of it?


Sleep=recovery........................


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

congrats your on big numbers... im not gettin in a pissing contest with you. (btw, youd be lucky to put up half the numbers I put up on a bad day 


Im telling you, your incorrect.  I dont know anyone who goes to the gym to get sore.  I go to get larger.  You dont just repair when you sleep, you repair 24 hours a day if you do things correctly.

Your a rookie, and I think its dangerous for you to be giving advice to people.  I certainly hope you do not train people with your misinformation.


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Sleep=recovery........................



sleep= rest

recovery is much more complex than just sleep.  Jesus lord, I feel like Im talking to 3rd graders in here.


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## JLB001 (Jul 6, 2005)

This is a chest.


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## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

Ok lol wow how do u get larger? please explain LOL!!!! theres only 1 way by getting sore. thats it im done with you. ama go shower and go RECOVER lol peace


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## GFR (Jul 6, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> sleep= rest
> 
> recovery is much more complex than just sleep.  Jesus lord, I feel like Im talking to 3rd graders in here.


*You are!*


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## JLB001 (Jul 6, 2005)

dAMvN said:
			
		

> Ok lol wow how do u get larger? please explain LOL!!!! theres only 1 way by getting sore. thats it im done with you. ama go shower and go RECOVER lol peace


Plain and simple...take note newbie.

Lift heavy, lift with low reps, eat right and recovery.  It doens't mean you have to be sore to grow.  Did your PE teacher tell you that you have to be sore to grow?


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

dAMvN said:
			
		

> Ok lol wow how do u get larger? please explain LOL!!!! theres only 1 way by getting sore. thats it im done with you. ama go shower and go RECOVER lol peace



you get larger by implementing the following

progressive overload
proper TUT for each muscle 
Variation or disruption of bodys homeostasis
Proper recovery and nutrition


maybe if you tried LISTENING to reason, youd grow a little more.


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

JLB001 said:
			
		

> This is a chest.





whoa


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

JLB001 said:
			
		

> Did your PE teacher tell you that you have to be sore to grow?


No my results did.


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## JLB001 (Jul 6, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> No my results did.


U have serious issues.   Piss ya off that my chest is bigger than yours and I'm a girl.  How sad.


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## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

lol you both said recover... hmmmm RECOVER FROM WHAT!!! being sore. omg please just shut ur mouth. I dont want to say it but.. I won you lost. dAMvN 1  You 0   lol.


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

JLB001 said:
			
		

> This is a chest.


I wonder what its like to suck tho........I wonder what its like to ti...fuc....those?


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## JLB001 (Jul 6, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> I wonder what its like to suck tho........I wonder what its like to ti...fuc....those?


  

Your immature age shows.


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

JLB001 said:
			
		

> U have serious issues.   Piss ya off that my chest is bigger than yours and I'm a girl.  How sad.


     ...................


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## MyK (Jul 6, 2005)

I've often wondered why so many girls have underdeveloped chests! I think there should be a government fund called the rackfund which girls who have breasts smaller than a C cup can apply to and receive money for a boob job!  

as for guys with an underdeveloped chest.....      ......couldnt give a shit!!


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

JLB001 said:
			
		

> Your immature age shows.


I hate when women use this word..........IMMATURE!


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

With all those bastard children running around............


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> No my results did.




ever think your results could get even better if you decided to listen to people who know what theyre talking about ?


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## JLB001 (Jul 6, 2005)

esp. ones old enough to be their Mom.  LMAO


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

dAMvN said:
			
		

> lol you both said recover... hmmmm RECOVER FROM WHAT!!! being sore. omg please just shut ur mouth. I dont want to say it but.. I won you lost. dAMvN 1  You 0   lol.




no dumbass, not from being sore, from microtrauma.

Youll stay the same forever and I will laugh.


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> ever think your results could get even better if you decided to listen to people who know what theyre talking about ?


Sometimes I do.........but then I remember most of you bastards dont know anything.


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Sometimes I do.........but then I remember most of you bastard dont know anything.




When I read your posts, I feel like I should be reading something in crayon.


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## GFR (Jul 6, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Sometimes I do.........but then I remember most of you bastard dont know anything.


Now that was funny....
I think you just edged ahead of me in the Banning pool.


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

I leave this place for a few months and all the newbs pretend to be experts.

Stupidity knows no boundaries.


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## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

Omg please what is being sore!!!? Having your muscle fibers tearing the same meaning of your little fancy word "microtrauma" your trying to confuse ppl stop its not working you lose. LOL.


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

sigh...

mictrotrauma does not equal soreness.  You MAY be sore after experiencing microtrauma or may NOT.  Especially with experienced lifters, soreness is extremely rare in most cases.


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> sigh...
> 
> mictrotrauma does not equal soreness.  You MAY be sore after experiencing microtrauma or may NOT.  Especially with experienced lifters, soreness is extremely rare in most cases.



Shit! If u keep increasing wieght and overloading your muscles, your gonna get sore.


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## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

LOL camaro just give it up man. its the same thing your not fooling anyone stop man wow give it up.


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## Randy (Jul 6, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> If I light your pecs on fire, do you think they would be in an anabolic state?
> 
> Why dont you head on back to the kiddie pool and play kids your own age. You dont belong in a bodybuilding forum with grown ass men and women.


 buawhahaahahahahaaha


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Now that was funny....
> I think you just edged ahead of me in the Banning pool.


Nope not yet.


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## MyK (Jul 6, 2005)

dAMvN, just walk away and stop arguing, you don't know what your talking about and its really annoying when you say stuff like "you dont know me" and "I win you lose". your not a 13 yr old girl and saying that you win an argument does not mean that you win it!!!!


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

Im not fooling anyone because Im right.  Look, you guys do whatever you want, just dont give bad advice to others.

Stick with the newb threads.


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## Randy (Jul 6, 2005)

As MinO would do at this point >


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

The real reason people have such an underdeveolped chest is because they take the advice of newbs such as these.

There is your answer.


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## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)

Damvn, you're ignorant, shut up


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## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)

> not true, soreness is the key when your sore is when ur body needs the protiens to regain itself and rebuild bigger. Thats basic man sad that you dont know that.



 
That's basic?  The fuck out of here with that simplified bullshit, who do you think you are talking disrespectfully to people?


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## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)

> Im saying two things! ONE! U do need to feel tha burn! TWO your a dumbass for believing u dont! Do u understang that! BITCH!



You're a dumb fuck, seriously.  I'm ashamed to be back on this board reading this garbage the first day I've been here in two months.  Talking about my brother like that?  Look how fucking frail you are.  Get the fuck out of here.


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> The real reason people have such an underdeveolped chest is because they take the advice of newbs such as these.
> 
> There is your answer.


I could, but I..........


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## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)

This is garbage, the board is worse off than I remember, you two retards need to do more research especially - before you call anyone a bitch.  Like research the mirror or the fuzzy out of focus pictures before you start calling out names.  You guys are jokes talking down to anyone.


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## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> You're a dumb fuck, seriously.  I'm ashamed to be back on this board reading this garbage the first day I've been here in two months.  Talking about my brother like that?  Look how fucking frail you are.  Get the fuck out of here.


  Ive read your posts, and I know you are a fuckin fool.  Also, I wonder how much u weight? I'm pretty sure u have no definition. Your just another fat bastard that lift weights! I hate when people thats already big try in give u advise. Now if u when from lets say 145 to 225 THEN we can start talking!


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)

You're fucking comedy dawg!  I'm laughing at you FUCKING HARD BAWHAHAH#$@# look at your out of focus bullshit, how much do you weigh like 160 soaking wet with change in your pockets in your spandex suit?? you've gotta be joking!  FUCKING CLOWN, go watch dragonball z


----------



## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> go watch dragonball z


----------



## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> You're fucking comedy dawg!  I'm laughing at you FUCKING HARD BAWHAHAH#$@# look at your out of focus bullshit, how much do you weigh like 160 soaking wet with change in your pockets in your spandex suit?? you've gotta be joking!  FUCKING CLOWN, go watch dragonball z



What tha fuck are u talking about? Yes I do weight 160. How much do u weight? About 230? How much of that is muscle? Silly fuck I know your just as big of an ass as me. I've read your old posts, your poor piss.


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

lol, little donut eatter ur ugly as fuck. all im saying is that ur weak lil brother is making things complex when they dont need to be. Just work out properly, eat correctly and intake the proper amount of Protien, Cals, Fats along with your Multi Vit and BCAA's, get ur sleep and you have to get big its a fact. Yes okay there are many other variables like intensity and other things while you work out but i'm not wrong.


----------



## GFR (Jul 6, 2005)

god hand I just want the first to congratulate you on a great thread. The sight of a great thread is it brings all the assholes out of the woodwork.      
I also want to apologize for not partaking in the ignorance, but I assure you I will try harder.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)

I'm ugly?  That's the best you can come up with?  Look at you sad ass people trying to talk to my brother, I'm not gonna have to defend myself to this bullshit am I?  God damn, I'm a fucking football player who weighs 240 pounds at 10 percent body fat!  I'm a fucking tub dawg. 400 pound free weight squat for 16 reps, 300 x 10 bench press, 500 x 8 deadlift.  235 x 8 military press.  You boys got me schooled

He's my older brother, actually, and his stats are roughly as impressive.  And you call him a bitch?  Look at this gang of people, get the FUCK OUT OF HERE


----------



## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

dAMvN said:
			
		

> lol, little donut eatter ur ugly as fuck.


HAHAHHAHHAHAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I dont think I've laughed harder on this thread!


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)

> Age: 17
> Height: 5' 9"
> Weight: 145
> Bench: 245



I hate to insult your stats, it's inspirational that you're on this board trying to improve yourself, but you've insulted my brother

Look at that bullshit.  Sad fucking bullshit


----------



## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I also want to apologize for not partaking in the ignorance, but I assure you I will try harder.


Yes try harder! I really dont like this fucker! He need to show us an picture of his 6 pack...............of beer!


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

lol look at ur bros lil weak bird chest... how old is dis guy? I'm 17 and I dopnt take BB seriusly and I have a better body than dis guy. I never called him names and if I did i'm sorry but I am not wrong. I know there is more and yes maybe he knows the rest but my facts are correct because it's the same shit he is saying.


----------



## GFR (Jul 6, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> I hate to insult your stats, it's inspirational that you're on this board trying to improve yourself, but you've insulted my brother
> 
> Look at that bullshit.  Sad fucking bullshit


Shit he's just a kid, give him 4 years and a few cycles, some insulin  and he will catch up to your currant stats.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)

You call someone a bitch on this thread. 

Look at your pictures.

You try and insult people who are clearly head and shoulders above you.

Get the fuck out of here!  This is why I left the board in the first place, spandex wearing jokes who don't know shit try and giving advice at 160 pounds


----------



## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> I'm ugly?  That's the best you can come up with?  Look at you sad ass people trying to talk to my brother, I'm not gonna have to defend myself to this bullshit am I?  God damn, I'm a fucking football player who weighs 240 pounds at 10 percent body fat!  I'm a fucking tub dawg. 400 pound free weight squat for 16 reps, 300 x 10 bench press, 500 x 8 deadlift.  235 x 8 military press.  You boys got me schooled
> F HERE


All natural of course!


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)

I take insulin, yes, good call.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)

AFDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

YOu DID NOT SAY MY BRO HAS A BIRD CHEST?  HOW DOES THAT MAN WEIGH 235 POUNDS OF SOLID FUCKING MUSCLE AND YOU JUST SAID HE HAS A BIRD CHEST?  GET THE OUT OF HERE


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

and my stats are not updates cuz I can currently hit 205 10x for 3 sets. I havint maxed in almost 1 year. Back b4 I was even on this board weighin 155 and maxed 270 in my school gym. And I was 16    NATURAL!!!  unlike a few here.


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

look at the pic... his chest is waaaaaaaaay  too small for his fat lil arms.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)

Dont post pictures of my brother, who is about 200 fucking times further then you, trying to expose him when you look like this.

Seriously.  Your insults are "you're ugly", I'll take that, you ain't a bitch so I don't care.  But BIRD CHEST? ?  LOOK AT YOU


----------



## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> AFDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
> 
> YOu DID NOT SAY MY BRO HAS A BIRD CHEST?  HOW DOES THAT MAN WEIGH 235 POUNDS OF SOLID FUCKING MUSCLE AND YOU JUST SAID HE HAS A BIRD CHEST?  GET THE OUT OF HERE



235 solid muscle? Bitch please! Layoff tha donuts!


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)

Fat little arms...rofl, go to a brad pitt worship forum and swoon over weakness with the rest of the ladies, SERIOUSLy.  Fat little arms?  His arms are big, bro, lets not lie.  Big.  See that vein running down it?  His body fat is close to 9 percent now, and hes' 235.  Who are you kidding?


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)

I don't understand.  Lay off the donut?  The name Duncans Donuts comes from my favorit player (Tim Duncan) with a pun off the shop Dunkins Donuts.  I don't eat donuts; I can't, I have juvenille diabetes.  Cut out the weak insults.  I'm past that.

Look at my brother: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




This picture is about 5 months old when he was bulking.  Tell me he's small?  Look at the other picture and tell me he's got a bird chest?  When this man is pressing about 285 for reps on a close grip bench press?  Man, you guys are graspin at straws


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

lol, na bitch i was 15 in da pic...  look at me now fresh new pic just 4 you


----------



## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

Donuts u brag about stats.....Fuck stats! Shit anybody can get stronger! I am only impressed when someone increase their muscle mass and be cut. Busylivin has some of the best pics I've seen on this site. Now he can talk shit.


----------



## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

Your bro has an great back......but thats all I see.


----------



## Randy (Jul 6, 2005)




----------



## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

Randy said:
			
		

>


That dog look high than a bitch.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)

Who s on this forum calling my brother a bitch?  Nobody can talk shit until someone calls my brother a fucking bitch.  Then we can throw around stats.  

No offense there guy calling my brother a bird chest, but his is as big as yours (bigger, I'd guess, but I'm tired of putting you down).  And as for me being fat, I can post pictures dismissing that garbage too.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)




----------



## Randy (Jul 6, 2005)

Duncan,

 Don't waste your time with this skinny ass runt.


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

guy LOL my point exactly....   he's lil weak chest is as big as mine you said it. THATS SAD!! go give his ass another steroid and your prolly loosin test right now go pinch ur ass again.


----------



## MyK (Jul 6, 2005)




----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)

Steroids?  My brother doesn't take steroids.  Where did you get that?  Now you've crossed the line.

My brother's chest is bigger than yours dawg, but I was trying to be polite.  Trying to squash it all.  Keep heaping shit on the fire.


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

randy.. lol no guy why did you have to say that lol  now you must suffer...




lol... 18" arm..? more like an 18" ball of shit.


----------



## Randy (Jul 6, 2005)

Damvn,

 Now lets see yours side by side and we will see who laughs.....  Besides that pic was 2 years ago.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)

This man is really trying to make enemies.  Really.  Why are you going at Randy?  This man is completely respected on this board.  What have you got on me?  I'm ugly?  I like donuts?  Get the FUCK OUT OF HERE with your 80 posts saying my brother has a bird chest.  How??? What picture are you looking at??

Shit you can say I'm a fat ugly piece of oven roasted jew for all I care, but yuo need to keep quite about him.


----------



## Randy (Jul 6, 2005)

I thought I was going to fall out of my chair when I saw your picture DAMVN      I couldn't stop laughing ...


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

this has gottin waaay out of hand. all I was sayin is that your brother knows wut he is saying, but I aint going to be told to shut up with my simple shit for no reason when I know I am correct. He is correct aswell because we are both saying the same thing he is just adding to what I was saying.


----------



## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

Randy said:
			
		

> Duncan,
> 
> Don't waste your time with this skinny ass runt.


If u dont get your 100% bodyfat ass out of this!


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

Ok randy. 4 real man I didint want to put you out like that cuz w/e i feel bad for you and shit. But dawg please face to face you cant compare man i'm a chick magnet. So please just relax... You guys made me this way 4 real, because people that know me in real life know I dont run lip but wow you guys and this internet thing really need to relax on wut you say over computers.


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

randy, wut are you tlaking about? I'm not freakin "body builder" wow. I'm just a guy that likes workin out to look good and knows my stuff. Never did I say I was a BB please dont get it twisted. Duncan has a great body he is built good his brother aswell, but I know my shit too so please dont diss me cuz your just beatin urself.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 6, 2005)

I shouldn't have come at you, you aren't frail, i apologize.  I got mad when I saw my brother disrespected.  Please don't call him a bitch, he's very knowledgable, and his chest is big, and he's sick strong.  Crazy strong.  We both are, not to toot our horns.  I'm out for a while, lets hope this dies.


----------



## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

285? For reps? Great, but his chest doesnt equal his numbers meaning he's doing something wrong, meaning he doesnt know very much about packing on size. There's my answer to not listen to him.


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

yea 4 real. lol.. i was just tryin to help. I know my stuff and what i dont know I always listin and learn. But come on you cant sit there and tell me you dont go to a gym to get sore... thats just b/s man. Thats the whole point to get sore so you can get bigger. ANd you get bigger by eatting correctly and working out correctly thats all I said. It takes time yes but im not incorrect. Your brother was adding to what I was saying and I respect that, but he didint show that I knew wut I was saying he put me down like if I didint know wut I was sayin.


----------



## god hand (Jul 6, 2005)

And like I said early Donut. I've read your old posts and seen how u talk to people some were even new to the site looking for real info. So its very hard for me to believe you our a serious person.


----------



## MyK (Jul 6, 2005)




----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

and randy.. please man just leave me alone I really dont want to go back and forth with you. I know im not weaka nd the wind doesint blow me over cuz I'll knock u on ur ass whenever youd like. but dude ama be the bigger mana nd tell you i'm sorry 4 putting u out like dat. my know how about working out isint shit man cuz why do I look like this and u look like that? you say im skinny? right can a skinny person put up da weight I put up? na sorry. I admit my flaws cuz we all have em (incept arnold) lol but dont put me out to be some dumbass that talks out of his ass.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

Wow. Yuur seriously gonna post my pics up and scrutinize my physique?  Please quit riding my dick kid.... those pics are about 7 months  old, and even still what right have you got calling out fuqqin names when you look like you do.   

I can handle an argument, but when you post my pics and start scrutinzing shit your hitting below the belt.  Id post my worst possible condition against yours any day.  Lets take some updated pics and  have an IM comp for all I give a shit.

Calling Duncan fat... your a gotttt DAMN fool.  Lets see you squat 440 for 16 reps.  Dick riding poser.

And whats this talk about steriods.  Im a cop you fuqqin gerbil, you think Im gonna go out and risk my career for some juice. 

Get the fuq outta here Junior. and come back when you hit puberty.


----------



## GFR (Jul 6, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> All natural of course!


I didn't see an answer to this question, I would hope a 21 year old man who uses steroids wouldn't try and compare stats to 17 year old natural kid.


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

lol this aint 8 mile pig, lol listin read my last 2 post you gotta understand why i got pissed at chu. at first I looked up 2 you cuz off the real I want to be a cop aswell, but u turned out 2 be a dick like a usal pig. we were saying the same advice you were just adding to what I said with some of ur know how, and thats cool but when you said that wut i am saying is shit thats fuckin b/s cuz its da same thing you just added a few more things.


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

randy.. please I was 15 in that pic. I just posted a fresh new pic of mine taken like 30mins ago.. drop it 4 real lol


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 6, 2005)

Dont act like you know me kid.  Cry a tear for me being mean.  Calling me a typical "cop" like you have any idea what it IS to be a cop makes me laugh. With that attitude youll be working at Kmart as shopping cart security until your 50. 

 I dont care if you want to pack garbage the rest of your life, when you start putting peoples pics on blast your on the fast track to getting banned quick.

And your sore nonsense is still wrong.


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

wow randy... dont you have like a family or somethin? a kid a wife? do something better than make urself look dumb. 4 real I said I was sorry 4 posting the pic of ur lil turkey ball bicep but stop man ur pushing it.


----------



## MyK (Jul 6, 2005)

dAMvN said:
			
		

> u turned out 2 be a dick like a usal pig.


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

w/e camaro i told you man wut happen I hope we can squash this cuz this internet beef is dumb come on 4 real we are all here to better ourselfs man. Heck its a no brainer you should know more than me but dont say wut I know is b/s cuz its not respect others and they will respect you.


----------



## MyK (Jul 6, 2005)

dAMvN said:
			
		

> lil turkey ball bicep


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

... lol randy check the commet in my gallary for that pic... its been there since like oct saying "I was 15 in this pic..." wut are you talking about.it's actually there to serve as a before and after pic...


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## Randy (Jul 6, 2005)

Sorry daMvN,  Are you saying that any of the other photos you have in your gallery are any better.   LOL.... I sure don't see anything in there that would do you any justice over your 15 year old shot.   I think you better keep eating your wheaties


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 6, 2005)

how did I know u were goin to say that. okay here it goes... you dont know me and wut ive been threw... when I was 15 I tore a lig in both of my shoulders so I gave up weight trainin for almost 1 year then when I was 16 I started up again got to almost 160 and maxin 270. Then I Reinjured my right shoulder playing basketball so I gave up weights once again. Just played ball like I use 2 and I couldint even play how I use to cuz of the injury. SO I went to a doc and took an MRI and they told me this past feb that im cleared to work out aslong as I dont do anything behined my neck. and he said I wont be the same unless I get the surgery but it takes 1 year rehab, 6months 4 each shoulder. thats my life randy since you have to a fruit cake and try and make me look bad, dawg ur beatin urself 4 real.


----------



## GFR (Jul 6, 2005)

I love it we have a 21 year old steroid user comparing stats with a 18 year old who is natural. And then we have a fat old man talking about how much bigger he is compared to a 17 year old.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

Duncan isnt on roids. You should be careful when you accuse people of such things.


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> Duncan isnt on roids. You should be careful when you accuse people of such things.


I wasn't talking to you but.....refer to his thread " Need Advisement" in the anabolic section.
He talks about the cycle he is going to do and also mentions it will be his second one.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

Very good. Hes not on.


----------



## MyK (Jul 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I love it we have a 21 year old steroid user comparing stats with a 18 year old who is natural. And then we have a fat old man talking about how much bigger he is compared to a 17 year old.


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> Very good.  But hes not on.  Hes been off for some time.


that thread was started 9-17-2004 and he was just about to start a 10 week cycle.....so he might have been off for 5 or 6 months now...that is hardly natural   LMAO


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

if you dont have synthetic test in your system.. you are natural.  After 6 months, its out of the system.


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> if you dont have synthetic test in your system.. you are natural.  After 6 months, its out of the system.


Ok Barry Bonds


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

Steriods didnt make Bonds hit home runs.  Talent did.

I could take juice all day and never hit one past first base


----------



## MyK (Jul 7, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> if you dont have synthetic test in your system.. you are natural.  After 6 months, its out of the system.


  

I haven't been laid in two weeks, does that mean I'm a virgin??????


----------



## Randy (Jul 7, 2005)

Camaro,

 Stop wasting your breath on these losers.

 I'm out for the night... L8r


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> Steriods didnt make Bonds hit home runs.  Talent did.
> 
> I could take juice all day and never hit one past first base


Thats not the point but nice try  Its called denial.....you can keep most of your gains for up to a year after a cycle.....I know I have done it   and now after 2 1/2 years I wont call myself natural...maybe pseudo natural.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

I never said someone who did steriods was ALWAYS natural, but if they arent on, then how can the be anything else?


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

Keep gains up to a year.... sure.  Anyone who has taken steriods will reach their genetic peak much faster, but once they go off, they cannot maintain anything about their potential unless they keep using.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

See ya Randy.

Nice talkin to u again.


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> I never said someone who did steriods was ALWAYS natural, but if they arent on, then how can the be anything else?


I just think its pathetic for a 21 year old man who has done at least 2 steroid cycles to compare stats ( Bragging ) to a 17 year old boy in High school.


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> Keep gains up to a year.... sure.  Anyone who has taken steriods will reach their genetic peak much faster, but once they go off, they cannot maintain anything about their potential unless they keep using.


Ok so how many cycles have you done??? and after you came off what happened???
Its experience bra, when you get some then we can talk


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

When a 17 year old kid whos telling straight out lies starts pointing out flaws and ridculing pics... he deserves whatever he gets.


----------



## MyK (Jul 7, 2005)

^^^Don't forget that the kids just coming back from a shoulder injury!!!


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

Im still working on gettin my big with what God gave me.  Once that stops, then well see.


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> When a 17 year old kid whos telling straight out lies starts pointing out flaws and ridculing pics... he deserves whatever he gets.


At 17 we all were a little rash with our judgments and actions but for a steroid using man to act the same or worse is just pathetic.


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> Im still working on gettin my big with what God gave me.  Once that stops, then well see.


Been there done that....good luck with it.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

No excuse.  And what exactly does steriods have to do with it?  Character has nothing to do with juice.  The kid posted my pics in a forum for crying out loud...thats dick riding for sure, and I just dont feel bad for him.

Sorry.


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> No excuse.  And what exactly does steriods have to do with it?  Character has nothing to do with juice.  The kid posted my pics in a forum for crying out loud...thats dick riding for sure, and I just dont feel bad for him.
> 
> Sorry.


I will have to go back and reread but DD jumps on after being gone for 2 months and starts talking shit.....


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

Besides.. this whole nonsense started with an argument about BURN of all things.  

Its still wrong.  Thats whats important.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

Well hes my brother... I hadnt been on in forever and I told him to check this thread out and get a good laugh.

So he did


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> No excuse.  And what exactly does steriods have to do with it?  Character has nothing to do with juice.  The kid posted my pics in a forum for crying out loud...thats dick riding for sure, and I just dont feel bad for him.
> 
> Sorry.


Its clear steroids don't help with character.


----------



## MyK (Jul 7, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> Besides.. this whole nonsense started with an argument about BURN of all things.



not to mention that the post is yet another one on chest development!!!


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

This is a main reason I stopped posting here months ago.... the nonsense is getting wild.


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 7, 2005)

All I said was that you go to the gym to get sore. And you get sore by liftin heavy and doin it correctly. Then you get bigger by eatting correctly and taking your proper vit's, bcaa's and intaking the proper amount of cals, protien and fats. Then of course you need to recover cuz thats when you get larger. Then you said the same exact thing but wiht other words and said wut i was saying is shit. so im like wtf man thats not cool then this whoe shit started.


----------



## MyK (Jul 7, 2005)

here we go agian!!!


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> This is a main reason I stopped posting here months ago.... the nonsense is getting wild.


Post 44 you call daMvN a "Retard", thus starting the war........and yes this nonsense can get wild, so if you don't like it don't jump in  There plenty of people here who don't get involved with the bullsh1t that goes on here. The most important thing is not to throw a hissy fit if people have a different opinion. People are not waiting with bated breath to partake in your or my or anyones knowledge or lack of it ( that was allot of "or's")Argue with them and take the fallout or just ignore it.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

I call em like I see em.


Wrong is wrong.  You can disagree that the world isnt round, but it shall still remain round. 

Im right.

That is what matters


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> I call em like I see em.
> 
> 
> Wrong is wrong.  You can disagree that the world isnt round, but it shall still remain round.
> ...


That sir is why you left the forum.......  
People don't come here to listen to your sermon on the TRUTH.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

Your much to new to remember my immense popularity.


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> Your much to new to remember my immense popularity.


It's not high school anymore so I don't concern myself with such things.


----------



## MyK (Jul 7, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> Your much to new to remember my immense popularity.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

MyK said:
			
		

>



dont be jealous now


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> It's not high school anymore so I don't concern myself with such things.



It is for the 17 year old.


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 7, 2005)

I graduated already class of 04.


----------



## LAM (Jul 7, 2005)

dAMvN said:
			
		

> All I said was that you go to the gym to get sore



do you know what causes DOMS ?


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

Thank the lawd, a voice of reason.


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 7, 2005)

DOMS is caused by, microscopic tearing of the muscle fibers. it just depends on how hard and how long you exercise and wut exercises you do.


----------



## LAM (Jul 7, 2005)

a little lesson for those who think that getting sore equals muslce growth....

*
There is a role for physiotherapy in ameliorating the DOMS response to EIMD.*

There is a role for physiotherapy in ameliorating the DOMS response to EIMD.

*Introduction*

Delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS), usually occuring 24-72 hours post eccentric exercise, is a controverisal topic. To date all the mechanisms are not totally understood. Several theories have been proposed during the years. This paper will present a brief overview regarding potiential sources and mechanism, and more focus on the existing evidence regarding physiotherapy treatment for DOMS.


*Muscle soreness * Muscle damag*e

Muscle damage due to eccentric muscle action is one potential source and damage have been found at sacromeres and Z-lines after exercise (Stauber 1996). Clarkson and Sayers (1999) concludes damage to the sarcolemma, T-tubuli, myofibrils and cytosceletons as well as streaming of the Z-lines. The damage could be increased by a disturbed calcium homeostasis and also by inflammatory response (Clarkson and Sayers 1999). Disturbed calcium homeostasis occurs when the sarcoplasmic retinaculum is damaged, which leads to decreased uptake of calcium and therefore increased intracellular calcium levels (Clarkson and Sayers 1999, McArdle et al 1996).

The reports of increased myoglobin and creatine kinase in the blood are signs of muscle injury and have been also been reported after exercise. Creatine kinase could be responsible for muscle soreness, however the peak concentration of creatine kinase was found to occur as the soreness was resolving (Alter 1996).
Performance deficit

Directly after an eccentric exercise bout a reduction in capacity to produce force, this can be present for up to five days post-exercise. Pain and soreness are partially responsible for the performance reduction, the rest is likely to be cause by muscle damage (Stauber 1996).
Location of soreness

The musculotendinous junction is most commonly reported as the point where DOMS are experianced as most intense (Stauber 1996).
Residual swelling

Swelling is a common finding with DOMS (Chleboun et al 1998, Stauber 1996). This swelling can explain some of the stiffness that also is associated with DOMS (Chleboun et al 1998). Chleboun et al (1998) studied the relationship between swelling and stiffness and found that swelling gradually increased during the first four days, whereas stiffness occured immediately. It was suggested that the initial stiffness could be due to the disturbance of calcium homeostasis that is associated with DOMS and that swelling could contribute to the stiffness in the later stages.
Inflammation

In regards or inflammation different views have been reported. Stauber (1996) suggests that it is not a true inflammatory response that occurs and supports this with findings that not all inflammatory mediators have been found present and also tha ineffectiveness of anti-inflammatory medication. On the other hand Clarkson and Sayers (1999) describes a normal inflammatory response.
Pain

Pain or tenderness is one of the main factors associated with DOMS. The inflammation process is accompanied by release of substances such as bradykinin, histamines and prostaglandins, which all can sensitise and activate the nociceptors. This occurs both from a chemical and mechanical point of view (Stauber 1996).

Current Knowledge of Creatine

It is now known that creatine plays a vital role in the ATP-PC system (the immediate energy system) and that 95% of the creatine in our body is stored in the skeletal muscles, the majority of the rest being found in the heart, brain and testes (Balsom et al 1994). Two thirds of this store is in the form of phosphocreatine, the rest simply as creatine (Fillmore et al 1999).

The average daily requirement of creatine is 2g/day dependent upon body size and activity levels. It is acquired from meat and other animal products (50% of our daily requirement) and from endogenous synthesis in the kidneys, liver and pancreas. (Fillmore et al 1999). Vegetarians and others who don�t ingest meat or animal products are capable of synthesizing sufficient quantities endogenously. However, it is noted in the literature that their resting levels of creatine are generally lower then non-vegetarians. (Engelhardt et al 1998).
Physiotherapy Treatments

In this section the physiotherapy treatment modalities are presented. With each modality is evidence both in support and contrary to the proposition.
Massage
Supporting evidence

Ernst (1998) hypothesised that massage, due to pressure on the local muscle tissue, increases the lymph flow and local blood flow and therefore could be a potential alleviator of DOMS. The explanation for this would be that the increased circulation would reduce ischemia and decrease swelling, which are potiential pain generators. However, in his review he found some scientific evidence supporting this view. Most of the articles revieled faulty research designs and small sample groups and this could be the explanation for the lack of support. Despite this the author see a trend pointing towards massage as a potiential treatment for DOMS.
Evidence to the Contrary

Tiidus (1997) concluded in his review that although some research suggests trends towards positive effect of massage in treating and reducing DOMS, most research have not been able to show good results. In fact light exercise seems to provide equal if not better result.
Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation (TENS)
Supporting evidence

TENS has been found to have a positive effect on delayed onset muscle soreness (Denegar et al 1989). Denegar and coworkers (1989) used low frequency TENS, at maximal tolerance for 30 minutes, 48 hours after an eccentric exercise bout. The results showed decreased perception of pain and increased elbow extension.
Evidence to the Contrary

These findings is opposed by the findings of Craig et al (1997). This research group used a larger sample size and both a controll and a placebo group. In addition they tested both low frequency TENS and high frequency TENS. When evaluating range of movement, resting angle and perceived tenderness during three executive days they found no significant changes between groups.
Hyperbaric oxygen therapy
Evidence to the Contrary

The potential for hyperbaric oxygen therapy have been put forward lately. The proposed effects of hyperbaric oxygen therapy are an increase in oxygen content of the arterial blood and a vasoconstriction. An increase in PaO2 would give an increase in diffusion gradient of O2, which would increase healing potentials for the damaged tissue. Vasoconstriction would lead to a reduction of the inflammatory response. However, the literature have note been able to prove any effect on induced muscle damage (Harrison et al 2001, Mekjavic et al 2000). Harrison et al (2001) found that all the parametres used in the experiment (cross sectional area, T2 relaxation time, isometric strength, serum creatine kinase and rating of percived soreness) were significantly affected by the eccentric exercise task, but there was no difference between the different groups.
Ultrasound
Evidence to the Contrary

Plaskett et al (1999) performed ultrasound treatment on ten subjects after they had been exposed 9 sets of 12 knee-extension exercise at 60% of 1 RM. Ultrasound treatment where conducted with pulsed 1.0 W/cm_ for 8 minutes daily for 4 days, to the quadriceps muscle of a randomly selected leg. Placebo treatment was conducted on the opposite quadriceps muscle. The results showed no differance in between limbs regarding knee-extension peak torque or DOMS.

Craig et al (1999) conducted a well designed study on the effects of pulsed ultrasound on delayed onset muscle soreness. The subjects were randomised into four groups, controll, placebo, low-dosage pulsed ultrasound (0.8 W/cm_, 7 minutes) and high-dosage pulsed ultrasoound (0.8 W/cm_, 14 minutes). The subjects received treatement after the exercise regim and the two following days. The authors found no significant differences regarding range of movement, mechanical pain threshold or subjective perception of pain that would indicate an effect of the ultrasound treatment.
Acupuncture
Evidence to the Contrary

Barlas et al (1999) studied the effects of acupuncture on DOMS. Four groups including control, placebo, and two different treatment groups. One were acupuncture was given in specific acupuncure points and the other were acupuncture was given in tender points. The authors measured range of movement, resting angle and subjectively perceived tenderness. From the results it was concluded that acupuncture have no effect on the signs and symptoms of DOMS.
Cryotherapy
Evidence to the Contrary

Cryotherapy is widely used as a treatment of traumatic soft tissue injuries. Paddon-Jones and Quigley (1997) proposed that if cryotherapy have an effect for these injuries, a similar effect on exersice induced muscle injury and delayed onset muscle soreness could be possible. However in their study the found no evidence to support this theory. They used a repeated protocol of 5 sessions of 20 minutes ice-water immersions, which would be regarded as a normal approach following acute soft-tissue injuries. Using the contralalteral arm as controll they found no differences in arm volume, muscle pressure soreness or strength assessment.
Prevention

MacArdle, Katch and Katch (1996) reports that a significant prophylactic effect can be achived by the use of a single bout of exercise prior to commencing more heavy training.
Conclusion

In conclusion the studies review and reported are of varying standard. Most of them include quite small sample sizes, which makes statistical analysing very difficult. Further more, a number of the articles are using the contralateral limb or muscle as controll, which could be seen as questionable since some of these treatments quite possible could have an effect not only localy but systemic or at least contralaterally. Controll groups are essential to enable a fair comparison and to produce solid scientific research. More studies following the standard set by Craig et al (1999) are warranted. These factors taken into consideration, it seems that most physiotherapy treatment evaluated to date have little influence in reveiling the symptoms associated with EIMD and DOMS. More thorough research may well change this current trend.

*References*

Alter MJ (1996)
    Muscular Soreness: Etiology and consquences. Science of Flexibility. Champaign: Human Kinetics,
Chleboun GS, Howell JN, Conatser RR and Giesey JJ (1998)
    Relationship between muscle swelling and stiffness after eccentric exercise. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 30:529-535.
Clarkson PM and Sayers SP (1999)
    Etiology of exercise-induced muscle damage. Canadian Journal of Applied Physiology 24: 234-248.
Denegar CR, Perrin DH, Rogol AD and Rutt R (1989)
    Influence of transcutaneus electrical nerve stimulation on pain, range of motion, and serum cortisol concentration in females experiancing delayed onset muscle soreness. Journal of Sports and Physical Therapy 11:100-103.
Harrison BC, Robinson D, Davidson BJ, Foley B, Seda E and Byrnes WC (2001)
    Treatment of exercise-induced muscle injury via hyperbaric oxygen therapy. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 33: 36-42.
McArdle W, Katch F and Katch V (1996)
    Exercise Physiology. (4th ed.) Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins.
Mekjavic IB, Exner JA, Tesch PA and Eiken O (2000)
    Hyperbaric oxygen therapy does not affect recovery from delayed onset muscle soreness. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 32: 558-563.
Stauber WT (1996)
    Delayed-onset muscle soreness and muscular pain.
Zachazewski J, Magee D and Quillen W (Eds)
    Athletic injuries and rehabilitation. Philadelphia: WB: Saunders Company,


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 7, 2005)

OMG you have to be kidding me. I give up 4 real. This is a freakin joke. You just cant stand to admit that in a nut shell I am correct. god freakin dammit.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

Dude.  Its not personal.  But you are completely WRONG.


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

Lifting weights properly and eating well makes you grow.....the rest of this argument falls under the category of "who gives a shit". Go into the lab or classroom and argue with a Physiology Professor if you feel the need.


----------



## LAM (Jul 7, 2005)

dAMvN said:
			
		

> OMG you have to be kidding me. I give up 4 real. This is a freakin joke. You just cant stand to admit that in a nut shell I am correct. god freakin dammit.



you will not find one medical study that states that muscle soreness is a requirement to stimulate hypertrophy....that is the point I am trying to make

if you can find a medical study that supports your beliefs regarding muscle soreness please feel free to post it


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 7, 2005)

This is pretty tired.  Lifting weight properly and eating well will make you grow, to some extent.  Optimizing that when you are advanced is a little different.  But it shouldn't be too simplified.  FOr a beginner or even an intermediate, you're right, for the average person.  But we ain't all the same.

And I don't apologize for getting mad for my brother, I don't care what anyone thinks of my old posts, I left here because I was tired of the arguments, but nobody needs to call my brother a bitch.

DOMS is not an indicator of growth, though, that's completey true.  It doesn't mean you aren't growing, or didn't damage the tissue, but DOMS is certainly not the bench mark for some metabolic drain great enough to influence a change.  Really.  Neither is a burn.  Burn is typically irritated nerves that are a consequence of a + hydrogen ion balance that builds up with lactic acid.  This imbalance makes the blood acidic.  Pyruvic acid and H+ is a consequence of glycolysis, when there's not enough oxygen to get rid of the H+ then contraction can't continue.  I swear I can't remember it exactly, but I get a huge burn doing pushups. It's not indicative of something as far as growth is concerned.


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## Duncans Donuts (Jul 7, 2005)

I hope this is all squashed, bye everyone.


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## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> I hope this is all squashed, bye everyone.


God I hope not, this is the most entertaining thread on the site at the moment.


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## MyK (Jul 7, 2005)

squashed!!!

doubtful! it should pick up tomorrow evening!!


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## min0 lee (Jul 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> God I hope not, this is the most entertaining thread on the site at the moment.


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## Witmaster (Jul 7, 2005)

Well shit.  This'll teach me to go to bed so early.


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## shiznit2169 (Jul 7, 2005)

wow this is hilarious

i go to bed last night with this thread only on the 2nd page and wake up this morning to see 225 pages of a flamefest


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## animalmachine (Jul 7, 2005)

"Don't get confused by equating "muscle burn" with an effective workout. Muscle burn is not an indication of muscle growth stimulation. In fact, the burning sensation is a result of lactic acid which is a byproduct of glycogen metabolism. This actually impairs muscle growth."

http://ast-ss.com/dev/qa_search/full_text.asp?ID=1086


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## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

animalmachine said:
			
		

> "Don't get confused by equating "muscle burn" with an effective workout. Muscle burn is not an indication of muscle growth stimulation. In fact, the burning sensation is a result of lactic acid which is a byproduct of glycogen metabolism. This actually impairs muscle growth."
> 
> http://ast-ss.com/dev/qa_search/full_text.asp?ID=1086


I really think its clear nobody is listening to much of anything on this thread


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## SJ69 (Jul 7, 2005)

Bench and do flies, if your chest doesn't grow YOU are fucking up somewhere, even if you don't have great genetics.


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## animalmachine (Jul 7, 2005)

there *could* be good discussion here... is there a moderator out there who could delete the pissing contests?  i remember when this board was almost all intelligent and knowledgeable people - when did it get flooded with these high school kids who think they know everything and lack any manners or grammatical skills


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## SJ69 (Jul 7, 2005)

animalmachine said:
			
		

> there *could* be good discussion here... is there a moderator out there who could delete the pissing contests?  i remember when this board was almost all intelligent and knowledgeable people - when did it get flooded with these high school kids who think they know everything and lack any manners or grammatical skills



true, but if you start deleating everything, then it becomes too much like 1984.


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## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

SJ69 said:
			
		

> true, but if you start deleating everything, then it becomes too much like 1984.


*I love Big Brother.*


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## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

SJ69 said:
			
		

> Bench and do flies, if your chest doesn't grow YOU are fucking up somewhere, even if you don't have great genetics.


Okay lets get back to the reason for thread.......After a couple jabs at Dounts!


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## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Okay lets get back to the reason for thread.......After a couple jabs at Dounts!


*Thats professor Donut to you.*


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## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> This is pretty tired.  Lifting weight properly and eating well will make you grow, to some extent.  Optimizing that when you are advanced is a little different.  But it shouldn't be too simplified.  FOr a beginner or even an intermediate, you're right, for the average person.  But we ain't all the same.



O..........kay lets get back to why I started this thread. Why do people have undeveloped chests? U say your bro can do CG bench for reps at 285? Yet his chest doesnt add up with his numbers. If u read my first post, I say that yes people can and do get strong on the bench, but have small chests. Their numbers get going up and up and fucking up, yet their chest doesnt grow. This means people are doing something wrong. Is your bro chest small? In terms no. But for a person that probably max out around 350 or more his chest is small. Now Donut, can u explain this?  Since your a fuckin expert!


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## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> IMO the best exercise for the pectoralis minors would be weighted chest bar dips.


This is the best answer I got so far.


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## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> bench press is 90% delt work, and depends on their BF. That's why they dont have a well defined chest. They need to do all variation of exercises to hit all parts of the pecs.


And this is the stupid answer I've got so far!


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## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> O..........kay lets get back to why I started this thread. Why do people have undeveloped chests? U say your bro can do CG bench for reps at 285? Yet his chest doesnt add up with his numbers. If u read my first post, I say that yes people can and do get strong on the bench, but have small chests. Their numbers get going up and up and fucking up, yet their chest doesnt grow. This means people are doing something wrong. Is your bro chest small? In terms no. But for a person that probably max out around 350 or more his chest is small. Now Donut, can u explain this?  Since your a fuckin expert!


Not to kick a dead horse  but I just love DD"s quote *"* Lifting weights properly and eating well will make you grow, *to some extent* *"* . It was a comment on my post....This is not rocket science here! " TO SOME EXTENT" are you high? Its called hypertrophy, and eating, well I would think that was a given. To many people here have to play the professor, they have to spew out some detailed (often wrong) explanation of whats already been said.


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## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

Can u isolate upper chest I dont know. But u can flex your upper chest without moving lower chest. Even flex said it. If your lets say giving an salute, with your left hand touching your right ear or vice versa. Your upper pec tightens up and your lower pec does nothing. So u cant say the chest cant be isolated. Yes some lower chest might come in to play, but very, very little.


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## shiznit2169 (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand, you're a fuckin moron. Stop actin like you know your shit. Why would u talk down to donuts and his bro? I mean look at them, they are far more intelligent than you are.

As for what i said, i got that from reading vince gironda's ebook about BB. He clearly stated that bench press is 90% delt work so i dont know if that is true or not. However, he is one of the greats so he must know what he is talking about.


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## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> god hand, you're a fuckin moron. Stop actin like you know your shit. Why would u talk down to donuts and his bro? I mean look at them, they are far more intelligent than you are.*That is debatable.*
> 
> As for what i said, i got that from reading vince gironda's ebook about BB. He clearly stated that bench press is 90% delt work so i dont know if that is true or not. However, he is one of the greats so he must know what he is talking about.


*I love Vince, but his theory's are 50 years old and he was not educated in physiology.*


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## shiznit2169 (Jul 7, 2005)

i have read every single post godhand and damnvn have posted. They do not know anything at all. Like DD said, it's ridiculous how bad these boards have gotten with those two retards.

Also, i agree it's probably 50 years old so it's probably just an exaggeration on his part.


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## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> i have read every single post godhand and damnvn have posted. They do not know anything at all. Like DD said, it's ridiculous how bad these boards have gotten with those two retards.
> 
> Also, i agree it's probably 50 years old so it's probably just an exaggeration on his part.


I remember when the low fat diet was in 10 years ago, I was competing and eating 10-20 grams of fat a day for months. Then I read an article about diet from Vince published in the 60's.....meat, eggs,vegetables and water.....god damn he was right about dieting for a show. Now all these losers like Adkins are taking credit for a diet the old school body builders did 50+ years ago.
Vince is the man.


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## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> This is pretty tired.  Lifting weight properly and eating well will make you grow, to some extent.


To some extent? Exactly  No matter how much I eat, it stills depends on my metabolism if I'm gonna gain weight or not. Its called hardgainer and from the looks your not one and never have been. If your 200, then it shouldn't be hard for you to get 220. But if your 145, your gonna have a harder time getting to 165 unless your metabolism becomes slower. This is why its stupid to say that a teenager has more potential packing mass than a 23 year man. And dont give me that testosterone shit.


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## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> god hand, you're a fuckin moron. Stop actin like you know your shit. Why would u talk down to donuts and his bro? I mean look at them, they are far more intelligent than you are.
> 
> As for what i said, i got that from reading vince gironda's ebook about BB. He clearly stated that bench press is 90% delt work so i dont know if that is true or not. However, he is one of the greats so he must know what he is talking about.


Do u actually believe this?


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## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> Also, i agree it's probably 50 years old so it's probably just an exaggeration on his part.


Then why are u giving this advise..............................idiot!


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## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

All people who have posted on this thread more than 15x should be banned.


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## dAMvN (Jul 7, 2005)

lol, shiznit2169 plz man shut up go and workout your "40 inch chest" lol. Everyone knows that in a nut shell I am correct. Okay they might have givin a rocket science explination, but mine was to the point and correct. You go to the gym, workout correctly with heavy weight, you tear ur muscle fibers, you then eat correctly intake ur protien, cals, fats and sleep to get bigger. Thats all I was saying that in a nut shell that is wut you do and in a sequence of months u will see results.


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## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> This is pretty tired.  Lifting weight properly and eating well will make you grow, to some extent.


Are u saying without steroids you cant reach full potential?


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> All people who have posted on this thread more than 15x should be banned.


I bet this was your fifteen post!


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## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> I bet this was your fifteen post!


I'm at 36 posts so far


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## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> i have read every single post godhand and damnvn have posted. They do not know anything at all. Like DD said, it's ridiculous how bad these boards have gotten with those two retards.



Shiznit I can see your 6 pack in that first pic!    Nobody wants to see your damn cat. Tha pussy is not cute!


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## LAM (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> But if your 145, your gonna have a harder time getting to 165 unless your metabolism becomes slower. This is why its stupid to say that a teenager has more potential packing mass than a 23 year man. And dont give me that testosterone shit.



I went from 5'9 @ 145 at 14 to 5'10 @ 205 by 18 at the same body fat, 7%. so yes it can be done and I would say to only have averge genetics..


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## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> I went from 5'9 @ 145 at 14 to 5'10 @ 205 by 18 at the same body fat, 7%. so yes it can be done and I would say to only have averge genetics..


I don't understand the last sentence? Are you saying you have average genetics or that people with average genetics can gait 60 Lbs in 4 years while being ripped to shreds at 7% body fat???


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## TheCurse (Jul 7, 2005)

this shit is cracking me up.  i love it when these waif-like twinkys try and come in and tell everyone how to lift.  i got news for you kids.  your naturally defined because your naturally skinny.  show me some seriously developed muscle bellies and i might give you some respect.  but you have none.  go back to the little kids table.   isnt there a 'tweens' forum we can direct these children to?


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## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> I went from 5'9 @ 145 at 14 to 5'10 @ 205 by 18 at the same body fat, 7%. so yes it can be done and I would say to only have averge genetics..


Really? This is coming from the same person that bench 567 and that said that vitamin pills are 100% the same as the ones u get from food.


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

TheCurse said:
			
		

> this shit is cracking me up.  i love it when these waif-like twinkys try and come in and tell everyone how to lift.  i got news for you kids.  your naturally defined because your naturally skinny.  show me some seriously developed muscle bellies and i might give you some respect.  but you have none.  go back to the little kids table.   isnt there a 'tweens' forum we can direct these children to?


Somebody has issues.


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## dAMvN (Jul 7, 2005)

lol i was always chubby till I turned 15. http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/11865


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## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

TheCurse said:
			
		

> this shit is cracking me up.  i love it when these waif-like twinkys try and come in and tell everyone how to lift.  i got news for you kids.  your naturally defined because your naturally skinny.  show me some seriously developed muscle bellies and i might give you some respect.  but you have none.  go back to the little kids table.   isnt there a 'tweens' forum we can direct these children to?


Finally, some one who can back up the shit they talk!  So, y not answer the threads ? Nice chest by tha way. Whats your stats?


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## LAM (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Really? This is coming from the same person that bench 567 and that said that vitamin pills are 100% the same as the ones u get from food.



your posts mean nothing to me dude I know chicks bigger than you than don't even use gear...


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## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

TheCurse said:
			
		

> isnt there a 'tweens' forum we can direct these children to?


While u try to be funny, there should be a teenage bodybuilding forum on here.


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## animalmachine (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> And dont give me that testosterone shit.



 Your ignorance is incredible.  

Anyway, your initial question has been answered - and many times over.  Maybe you need to read the quote on your sig:

"Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." Plato


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## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> your posts mean nothing to me dude I know chicks bigger than you than don't even use gear...



U mean those ugly women that look like men?


----------



## LAM (Jul 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I don't understand the last sentence? Are you saying you have average genetics or that people with average genetics can gait 60 Lbs in 4 years while being ripped to shreds at 7% body fat???



yes that is my point that I have average genetics and made great gains in 4 years even on a very shitty diet...

god hand was claiming that teens can't make good gains until 23 which is nothing but an excuse for being skinny


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## P-funk (Jul 7, 2005)

WOW!!  I was bored so I decided to click on this thread and see what it was about (since when it started the title seemed stupid to me so I didn't pay attention.).  LOL, this is some pretty funny stuff.







			
				god hand said:
			
		

> Donuts u brag about stats.....Fuck stats! Shit anybody can get stronger! I am only impressed when someone increase their muscle mass and be cut. Busylivin has some of the best pics I've seen on this site. Now he can talk shit.




I disagree.  Not everybody can be strong.  Also, not everybody can have a good amount of muscle mass AND be cut.  Different people have different goals and different genetics.  For the record, I am way more impressed by someone that can move a lot of weight.


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## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> yes that is my point that I have average genetics and made great gains in 4 years even on a very shitty diet...
> 
> god hand was claiming that teens can't make good gains until 23 which is nothing but an excuse for being skinny


I think the teenage years are the easiest time to make fast gains also. But as far as average genetics, from what you say about your strength and size you are genetically far superior to most. GH looks to be a hard gainer If you use his pics as a reference.


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## dAMvN (Jul 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Lifting weights properly and eating well makes you grow.....the rest of this argument falls under the category of "who gives a shit". Go into the lab or classroom and argue with a Physiology Professor if you feel the need.


Can't be said any better.


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## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> I disagree.  Not everybody can be strong.  Also, not everybody can have a good amount of muscle mass AND be cut.  Different people have different goals and different genetics.  For the record, I am way more impressed by someone that can move a lot of weight.



Really? So you are impressed by some fat man that can bench 500lbs? I guess...........


----------



## P-funk (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Really? So you are impressed by some fat man that can bench 500lbs? I guess...........




fuck yeah I am.  I am more impresed with someone that moves big weight than is 160lbs ripped to the bone.  I would rather be a fat wreck than a skinny ripped guy.  At least the fat wreck can lift heavy weight.  The skinny guy is....just skinny.


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## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> fuck yeah I am.  I am more impresed with someone that moves big weight than is 160lbs ripped to the bone.  I would rather be a fat wreck than a skinny ripped guy.  At least the fat wreck can lift heavy weight.  The skinny guy is....just skinny.


The older I get the more I agree with that P. At 38 I'dd rather be 250+ and bench 500 then 185 and ripped like Brad pit.


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## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> fuck yeah I am.  I am more impresed with someone that moves big weight than is 160lbs ripped to the bone.  I would rather be a fat wreck than a skinny ripped guy.  At least the fat wreck can lift heavy weight.  The skinny guy is....just skinny.


WOW! I cant believe u said this! I'd rather be something like 195 with a 6 pack and plenty of definition than 260 with a damn bowling ball in my belly. But u r entitled to an opinion.


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

I remember a thread where women voted on what body type they like. Most of them voted for the lean type. I just saying, u would rather look like those dudes that come on ESPN world strongest man? 330lbs, but can bench fucking 650? Or Arnold?


----------



## P-funk (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> WOW! I cant believe u said this! I'd rather be something like 195 with a 6 pack and plenty of definition than 260 with a damn bowling ball in my belly. But u r entitled to an opinion.



I would rather be somewhere in the middle.  I have gone from both extremes.  I have been 200lbs (at 5'5" 200lbs is pretty good sized) and ripped to the bone at 170lbs.  Honestly, when I was 200 I was bulkier and carrying more BF and I didn't feel good or healthy.  Ripped at 170 I also didn't feel healthy at all.  I am not that into having a 6 pack actually.  I like to be comfortable at about 10-12% BF.  Anything lower than 10% and I feel like shit (tired, achey, headaches, hungry).  So, I personally would rather be somewhere in between but strong no matter what.  But, if you are asking me what is more impressive I have to say the guy that lifts big weight.  I am more into that than anything else.

I mean, look at any of the guys on the world strongman cicut.  Aside from Pudz (who is a beast) none of those guys are "ripped" and some are even pretty fat.  But they are athletic as hell!  They are fast, explosive and strong.  They are just as athletic as someone that is more that 100lbs less than them.  I would love to see someone try and call one of those guys fat. They would run your ass down and beat the shit out of you.


----------



## P-funk (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> I remember a thread where women voted on what body type they like. Most of them voted for the lean type. I just saying, u would rather look like those dudes that come on ESPN world strongest man? 330lbs, but can bench fucking 650? Or Arnold?




1) I don't lift weights for women.  that was never my intention.

2) I hate vanity.  I competed in BBing twice just to see what it was like.  I hate that beauty pagent bullshit.

3) I don't lift weights for women.

4) My girlfriend likes it when I am bulkier and doesn't like it when I am ripped to shreds.  Luckily neither do I.

5) I don't lift weight for women.

6) I lifts weights for me and only me.  I don't care what anyone thinks.  my goals are my goals and are not influenced by anyone except myself.


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

P-funk. Even through u said this thread is stupid, y do u think people have undeveloped chests? That is the reason I started this thread!


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

Or u natural? Sorry, but I just had to ask?


----------



## shiznit2169 (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand, why do you care what other people think? If they want to be fat and very strong puttin up huge numbers, then they can go ahead and do so. Just because you want to be a bodybuilder with 5% BF doesn't mean other people have to. Everyone has their own likes/dislikes and their own opinions. Quit bashing about everything and learn to speak proper english instead of saying "you da boy"


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Or u natural? Sorry, but I just had to ask?


P is 100% natural.


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> But u r entitled to an opinion.


Shiznit make sure u read the posts.


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> Quit bashing about everything and learn to speak proper english instead of saying "you da boy"


Now this shit get started!


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> god hand, why do you care what other people think? If they want to be fat and very strong puttin up huge numbers, then they can go ahead and do so. Just because you want to be a bodybuilder with 5% BF doesn't mean other people have to.



Yeah but they lovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvve to brag about their numbers when they have nothing to show for it.


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 7, 2005)

shiznit2169, you got zero to say about anything that has to do with liftin weights.


----------



## P-funk (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> P-funk. Even through u said this thread is stupid, y do u think people have undeveloped chests? That is the reason I started this thread!




well, I didn't mean it was stupid. What I should have said was that I didn't think the title was interesting.  As it turns out it happens to be pretty interesting and commical.


Anyway, like foreman said I am 100% natural....no steroids or pro hormones or anything like that.  The only supplement I currently use other than a multivitamin is Protien.

I think people have bird chests because they don't know how to train properly or eat properly or in some instance they can't got either of the two right.


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 7, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> I think people have bird chests because they don't know how to train properly or eat properly or in some instance they can't got either of the two right.


Thank you! wow I said the same exact thing like 9939283 pages ago. But no this freakin fruit cake camaro had to go ahead and say I was a retard.


----------



## P-funk (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Yeah but they lovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvve to brag about their numbers when they have nothing to show for it.




they have a lot to show for it!  Look at what I said about the strongman competitors.  In most cases those guys are more athletic and aerobically fit than any pro bb'er.  Also, look at football players.  Warren Sap has a high amount of BF.  He still could burn your ass in a 40, out lift you and if that isn't bad enough flatten you like a pancake.  A slighty higher amount of BF is needed in things like heavy lifting as it helpts to protect the joints (obviously some of them don't need to be as fat as they are but that is their choice) and in contact sports like football to help absorb hits.


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

Can dips pack on serious mass? This is my last ?


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 7, 2005)

Please take a look at page 1 post 22.  wow man this is a joke for real.


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> they have a lot to show for it!  Look at what I said about the strongman competitors.  In most cases those guys are more athletic and aerobically fit than any pro bb'er.  Also, look at football players.  Warren Sap has a high amount of BF.  He still could burn your ass in a 40, out lift you and if that isn't bad enough flatten you like a pancake.  A slighty higher amount of BF is needed in things like heavy lifting as it helpts to protect the joints (obviously some of them don't need to be as fat as they are but that is their choice) and in contact sports like football to help absorb hits.



Hmmm.....football players r really strong. And yet they look so normal.


----------



## P-funk (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Hmmm.....football players r really strong. And yet they look so normal.




Normal?  Who says what normal is?  Like I said, Warren sap is big and not ripped.  Reggie White wasn't ripped either.  Fridge Perry wasn't nor was his brother Michael Dean.  Bruce Smith and Pepper Johnson where the leanest they could be.  These guys were fucking animals!  Didn't it matter that they didn't have a 6 pack?  Hell no.  It mattered not what they looked like but that they were fast, strong and ATHLETIC!


----------



## P-funk (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Can dips pack on serious mass? This is my last ?




as long as you vary your routine (exercises and variables) and take in a suffecient amount of calories you will grow.


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 7, 2005)

hmmm, so I guess I was right all along.


----------



## TheCurse (Jul 7, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> as long as you vary your routine (exercises and variables) and take in a suffecient amount of calories you will grow.


 one thing i'd like to add to P's statement here.  Time.  it takes time kids, we all want (ok most of us) 'serious mass', but it takes time to get there, and there is no miracle workout that produces results like lightning (unless you use cell tech products of course).  expect to put in years of sacrifice if you want to achieve these goals of mass.


----------



## P-funk (Jul 7, 2005)

TheCurse said:
			
		

> one thing i'd like to add to P's statement here.  Time.  it takes time kids, we all want (ok most of us) 'serious mass', but it takes time to get there, and there is no miracle workout that produces results like lightning (unless you use cell tech products of course).  expect to put in years of sacrifice if you want to achieve these goals of mass.




yes, that is important.  Time and consitency.  A lot of people go on and off in terms of their training.  You need to try and be consistent for years to see the real benefit of hard training.


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

Ooops!!! I just noticed u use PH!


----------



## P-funk (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Ooops!!! I just noticed u use PH!




????  Not me.


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> ????  Not me.


No The Curse.


----------



## Witmaster (Jul 7, 2005)

Shit, you guys are STILL at it?


----------



## TheCurse (Jul 7, 2005)

yes, just started.  and one day i might even try aas.  as you cast your judgements, hopefully you will realize i could give a shit, and in so knowing this you might realize how fruitless a life you have indeed if everything you do is designed to impress those around you.


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

TheCurse said:
			
		

> yes, just started.  and one day i might even try aas.  as you cast your judgements, hopefully you will realize i could give a shit, and in so knowing this you might realize how fruitless a life you have indeed if everything you do is designed to impress those around you.


Well I'm not going to try ph to try to impress anyone.


----------



## The Monkey Man (Jul 7, 2005)

I used so much PH...

I think I disrupted my natural Hormone Prod...

Took six months to get back in the saddle


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> I used so much PH...
> 
> I think I disrupted my natural Hormone Prod...
> 
> Took six months to get back in the saddle


R u 4 real?


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

Your nuts or your muscles? U decide!


----------



## shiznit2169 (Jul 7, 2005)

> shiznit2169, you got zero to say about anything that has to do with liftin weights.



im sorry, but who the fuck are you? Just some ethug punk who thinks he knows it all because you have a good physique? I have zero to say anything about lifting weights? Why? What do you know about me? Are you judging me because of the way i look right now? That pic was taken a while ago, im much bigger than that. Maybe i started serious lifting 4 months ago, read a whole variety of nutritional and bodybuilding books and i hate to say it, but i probably know more than you do. I dont post a pic every 2 seconds just to show off. Keep posting pics of your pathetic self to brag and act like you know everything. Real tough.


----------



## The Monkey Man (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> R u 4 real?


_I won't use them again  _


----------



## TheCurse (Jul 7, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> I used so much PH...
> 
> I think I disrupted my natural Hormone Prod...
> 
> Took six months to get back in the saddle


 umm, well, monkey man, you know your not supposed to run anything like a ph or aas continuously right?  you do know that all research points to the ability to run ph's and aas safely when one follows all the safety precautions with regards to frequency of use, correct post cycle therapy, and consistent blood work reading, right?
 or are you one of the ones we have to thank for the ban?


----------



## turbine5 (Jul 7, 2005)

TheCurse said:
			
		

> this shit is cracking me up.  i love it when these waif-like twinkys try and come in and tell everyone how to lift.  i got news for you kids.  your naturally defined because your naturally skinny.  show me some seriously developed muscle bellies and i might give you some respect.  but you have none.  go back to the little kids table.   isnt there a 'tweens' forum we can direct these children to?




....what's a muscle belly?


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 7, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> im sorry, but who the fuck are you? Just some ethug punk who thinks he knows it all because you have a good physique? I have zero to say anything about lifting weights? Why? What do you know about me? Are you judging me because of the way i look right now? That pic was taken a while ago, im much bigger than that. Maybe i started serious lifting 4 months ago, read a whole variety of nutritional and bodybuilding books and i hate to say it, but i probably know more than you do. I dont post a pic every 2 seconds just to show off. Keep posting pics of your pathetic self to brag and act like you know everything. Real tough.


Thug? lol your the one passing judgment on me. I posted those 3 new pics because Turkey ball Randy decided to wrank on my 15 year old pic. Not knowing my story. And no I said you have Zero to say about liftin weights because 1 yes you look like shit. and 2nd because you make post for no reason. Listin and read b4 you try and comment about things. Live threw it maybe. I'm not going to go read up about Steroids then go give adivce. No live threw it and walk in those shoes then you can comment about things.


----------



## Witmaster (Jul 7, 2005)




----------



## TheCurse (Jul 7, 2005)

turbine5 said:
			
		

> ....what's a muscle belly?


  heres one


----------



## shiznit2169 (Jul 7, 2005)

> I'm not going to go read up about Steroids then go give adivce. No live threw it and walk in those shoes then you can comment about things.



wtf u bringing up steroids for? lol wow. I never said anything about steroids if that's what you're getting at, and it's live "through" it. Maybe master the english and grammar skills before you start talking about BB. Also didn't i say that pic was taken a while ago, like a year 1/2? I'm bigger than that but you didn't read "carefully". live threw it man, live threw it. You're a joke, im done with you.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 7, 2005)

If it were as simple as eating right and lifting right, everyone could have the potential to be huge.  SO in that reality, it is to an extent.  Of course that quote was taken out of context without the, "for beginners and intermediates, that's pretty much true", but that was ignored.

I have found that it isn't just eating right, it's eating at the right time; not just lifting right, but using new techniques, exercises, intervals, and etcetera that keep me from not losing what I've tried so hard to gain.  The point is that at a certain point, closer to a genetic potential, with no steroids, you have to think a lot harder where old methods just don't do it anymore.


----------



## dAMvN (Jul 7, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> wtf u bringing up steroids for? lol wow. I never said anything about steroids if that's what you're getting at, and it's live "through" it. Maybe master the english and grammar skills before you start talking about BB. Also didn't i say that pic was taken a while ago, like a year 1/2? I'm bigger than that but you didn't read "carefully". live threw it man, live threw it. You're a joke, im done with you.


I didint say you said anything about roids, wut I said was it's like if I talk about roids when I never even taken roids. Your talking about liftin weights when u only been doin it for 4 months and doin it incorrect most likely. And I never said I was BB cuz I aint, I workout to look good. BB is when you go tot he gym 6 times a week. I sometimes make it to the gym 3 times a week. Dont get me wrong I take it seriously, but I know I aint no freakin BB, I just know what I'm doin and making myself look good. My point is.... You dont know shit because you havint worked out long enough to know anything. ALl you do is read and think you know. On the other hand, I listin keep my mouth shut, learn and train harder than you.


----------



## P-funk (Jul 7, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> If it were as simple as eating right and lifting right, everyone could have the potential to be huge.  SO in that reality, it is to an extent.  Of course that quote was taken out of context without the, "for beginners and intermediates, that's pretty much true", but that was ignored.
> 
> I have found that it isn't just eating right, it's eating at the right time; not just lifting right, but using new techniques, exercises, intervals, and etcetera that keep me from not losing what I've tried so hard to gain.  The point is that at a certain point, closer to a genetic potential, with no steroids, you have to think a lot harder where old methods just don't do it anymore.




why would anyone disagree with that?


----------



## PTYP (Jul 7, 2005)

Whats funny, is all the bashing started over a debate whether or not soreness is a prerequisite to growth.


----------



## Randy (Jul 7, 2005)

dAMvN said:
			
		

> and randy.. please man just leave me alone I really dont want to go back and forth with you. I know im not weaka nd the wind doesint blow me over cuz I'll knock u on ur ass whenever youd like. but dude ama be the bigger mana nd tell you i'm sorry 4 putting u out like dat. my know how about working out isint shit man cuz why do I look like this and u look like that? you say im skinny? right can a skinny person put up da weight I put up? na sorry. I admit my flaws cuz we all have em (incept arnold) lol but dont put me out to be some dumbass that talks out of his ass.


  daMvN,
  You call this being a bigger man with your poor excuse for an apology.
 You have a lot to learn little boy. For one thing, those that have a good physique definitely don't spout off their mouths and brag about it. Second, they don't put other people down. What's funny is that I hear this time and time again from people that are tiny trying to draw attention to themselves. Then you post a picture of yourself saying it was your most current and that everyone was supposed to be impressed. What was funny is your hands behind your biceps trying to push against them from behind to make them look bigger.    Again, being a tiny boy like you are you definitely don't want to brag to others. Now as for me I am benching about 300lbs @ 5 reps and have quite extensive gains since I started working out about 2 years ago. I am by far not a weak man. I have some body fat to combat as well. I think each and every one of us have areas to improve. But I'm not here to give you my progress report. I'm just trying to make you realize how stupid you really sound here. And if you want to continue with your childish insults and continue with your pathetic plea for attention, well you go for it. Oh, and one last thing about your Old Man Comment.. If you think being in your forty's is an old man, you???re more stupid then I thought. But be careful, as you will be there before you know it little boy. But then again, with a mouth like yours, you never know .


----------



## Randy (Jul 7, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> why would anyone disagree with that?


 You would be surprised P-funk


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

dAMvN said:
			
		

> All you do is read and think you know. On the other hand, I listin keep my mouth shut, learn and train harder than you.


There is so many people on this thread that all they do is read......and read and read and fuckin read!


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> If it were as simple as eating right and lifting right, everyone could have the potential to be huge.  SO in that reality, it is to an extent.  Of course that quote was taken out of context without the, "for beginners and intermediates, that's pretty much true", but that was ignored.


Answer thread question please!


----------



## gopro (Jul 7, 2005)

My answer to the original thread question...because they do not know how to set up their body before beginning and chest press or flye in order to properly recruit the pec muscles. Most people press with their delts.


----------



## animalmachine (Jul 7, 2005)

Better to read than expatiate drivel


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

gopro said:
			
		

> My answer to the original thread question...because they do not know how to set up their body before beginning and chest press or flye in order to properly recruit the pec muscles. Most people press with their delts.


And whats the way to counter this.........


----------



## turbine5 (Jul 7, 2005)

gopro said:
			
		

> My answer to the original thread question...because they do not know how to set up their body before beginning and chest press or flye in order to properly recruit the pec muscles. Most people press with their delts.



I've never really noticed this before, I know when benching you use your tri's and delts somewhat, but how do you mess up and press with your delts? Is it the placement of the bar when its up or down causing this?

thanks


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

TheCurse said:
			
		

> yes, just started.  and one day i might even try aas.  as you cast your judgements, hopefully you will realize i could give a shit, and in so knowing this you might realize how fruitless a life you have indeed if everything you do is designed to impress those around you.


Why so bitter?


----------



## Randy (Jul 7, 2005)

gopro said:
			
		

> My answer to the original thread question...because they do not know how to set up their body before beginning and chest press or flye in order to properly recruit the pec muscles. Most people press with their delts.


 Hey there Gopro...long time no see.  How ya doin buddy?


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> If it were as simple as eating right and lifting right, everyone could have the potential to be huge.  SO in that reality, it is to an extent.  Of course that quote was taken out of context without the, "for beginners and intermediates, that's pretty much true", but that was ignored.
> 
> I have found that it isn't just eating right, it's eating at the right time; not just lifting right, but using new techniques, exercises, intervals, and etcetera that keep me from not losing what I've tried so hard to gain.  The point is that at a certain point, closer to a genetic potential, with no steroids, you have to think a lot harder where old methods just don't do it anymore.


Exactly, as I said pages and pages ago "training properly and eating well"......  and the meat of my comment was later repeated and the simple truth of it ignored.


----------



## Randy (Jul 7, 2005)

ForemanRules,

 Were you dropped on your head when you were a baby?


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

Randy said:
			
		

> ForemanRules,
> 
> Were you dropped on your head when you were a baby?


   _______________.insert the out of control laughing in the blank space .


----------



## gopro (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> And whats the way to counter this.........



-lay down on the bench and set your feet firmly on the floor
-arch your lower back slightly
-raise your ribcage up high
-squeeze the scapula together 
-pull your shoulders downward

Now you are in the correct position to achieve maximum pectoral recruitment with far less tricep and delt interference. The key is to keep your body in this position throughout the set. It is not enough to simply start this way. Learn to ???lock??? your body like this while you bench press, or perform any chest press or flye movement for that matter.

Once you begin your set, make sure to keep your elbows wide and under your wrists. Lower the bar to just about nipple level (this may vary slightly among individuals) under full control???bouncing is a major no no???and then push to the top in an explosive fashion.

This may seem strange at first, but once you master it, it will be time for some bigger shirts my friend!


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 7, 2005)

> Answer thread question please!



Why do people keep trying to ruffle my feathers?

Foreman, you oversimplified.  Therefore I disagreed with your statement as such.  A basic schematic of getting to the moon doesn't include details, but I can assure you that the details will be the only thing that deliver your achievement.  I just don't agree with overlooking as such.

Why do people have underdeveloped chest?  I don't think people do.  Most people I know have underdeveloped legs.  Remember that the length of the muscle-belly (and length of the tendon) is not consistent in the body.  That means someone with huge biceps and quads may not have similar genetic potential in their chest.  So what may be underdeveloped by someones seriously unnecessary judgement-call may in fact be proportionally developed relative to his own capacity.

I really don't see underdeveloped chests that often, when I do it's usually because that's all they focus on.


----------



## animalmachine (Jul 7, 2005)

... and somehow this thread pulled out useful information - Thanks Gopro!


----------



## gopro (Jul 7, 2005)

animalmachine said:
			
		

> ... and somehow this thread pulled out useful information - Thanks Gopro!



You are welcome. I just saw how big this thread was getting and wanted to see what all the fuss was about. I just figured that the original question might have gotten lost in the mix, lol!


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

-lay down on the bench and set your feet firmly on the floor. Check!

-arch your lower back slightly. Check? My lower back should not be flat on the bench?

-raise your ribcage up high. Check?.... this y I should arch my lower back otherwise I wouldnt be able to do this.

-squeeze the scapula together. Check!

-pull your shoulders downward. ? Do u mean downward as in keep them close to mybody? Or do u mean dont spread them to wide?


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> Why do people keep trying to ruffle my feathers?
> 
> Foreman, you oversimplified.  Therefore I disagreed with your statement as such.  A basic schematic of getting to the moon doesn't include details, but I can assure you that the details will be the only thing that deliver your achievement.  I just don't agree with overlooking as such.
> 
> ...



My quote was exactly right. Oversimplified??? what is this advanced Bio mechanics and a PHD Nutrition class   For people to attack comments because they don't go into enough detail is just silly. If people want to go in to massive detail how the body grows and heals ect. then go write a book.....or start an educational thread devoted to it .


----------



## gopro (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> -lay down on the bench and set your feet firmly on the floor. Check!
> 
> -arch your lower back slightly. Check? My lower back should not be flat on the bench?
> 
> ...



-Yes, the lower back will be ever so slightly off the bench, but not too much!
-Yes, in order to raise the rib cage you need to slightly arch the back and push that chest foward.
-Pull the shoulders downward as in "SHRUG" them down.


----------



## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> Why do people keep trying to ruffle my feathers?


I aint heard this one before!  Sounds................homoish


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Jul 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> My quote was exactly right. Oversimplified??? what is this advanced Bio mechanics and a PHD Nutrition class   For people to attack comments because they don't go into enough detail is just silly. If people want to go in to massive detail how the body grows and heals ect. then go write a book.....or start an educational thread devoted to it .



You're wrong on this, dude.  This is a discussion forum.  Get off my case, I don't have to agree with you.  I'm not disrespecting you, but you feel like it's necessary to throw in nonsense about PHD nutrition class.  What is PHD nutrition class??  I DONT AGREE WITH YOU.  It's a discussion forum, get over it.


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> You're wrong on this, dude.  This is a discussion forum.  Get off my case, I don't have to agree with you.  I'm not disrespecting you, but you feel like it's necessary to throw in nonsense about PHD nutrition class.  What is PHD nutrition class??  I DONT AGREE WITH YOU.  It's a discussion forum, get over it.



Cut back on the coffee.....after 2 months away from this forum, the first thing you do is attack some 17 year old about 20x in a row. Start bragging about how much better your stats are compared to this high school kid...who is natural  by the way. 
You can write a book on every thread, but don't say I am wrong because I give an answer without writing 3 paragraphs with some Physiology charts added. If you continue to attack me for no reason other than your ego, I will be on your case whenever I feel like it.


----------



## Randy (Jul 7, 2005)

Foreman....

 Who are you to tell someone to cut back on the coffee..??? I can clearly see you're one of the biggest shit starters here. As for attacking the poor little 17 year old. He was the initiator, and deserved every bit of Duncans responses. Duncan was clearly just taking a defensive posture to the 17 year olds Bullshit. But now Duncan and the rest of us want to drop all this, and people like you come in trying to stir up the pot once again. Do us all a favor Foreman and let sleeping dogs lye.


----------



## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

Randy said:
			
		

> Foreman....
> 
> Who are you to tell someone to cut back on the coffee..??? I can clearly see you're one of the biggest shit starters here. As for attacking the poor little 17 year old. He was the initiator, and deserved every bit of Duncans responses. Duncan was clearly just taking a defensive posture to the 17 year olds Bullshit. But now Duncan and the rest of us want to drop all this, and people like you come in trying to stir up the pot once again. Do us all a favor Foreman and let sleeping dogs lye.


Hi randy, I hope your having a great day, its good to hear from you.


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## Randy (Jul 7, 2005)

There you go Foreman, if you treat people here like that then you would never have a problem. 

 You respect others = Others respect you


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## god hand (Jul 7, 2005)

Randy said:
			
		

> Foreman....
> 
> Who are you to tell someone to cut back on the coffee..??? I can clearly see you're one of the biggest shit starters here. As for attacking the poor little 17 year old. He was the initiator, and deserved every bit of Duncans responses. Duncan was clearly just taking a defensive posture to the 17 year olds Bullshit. But now Duncan and the rest of us want to drop all this, and people like you come in trying to stir up the pot once again. Do us all a favor Foreman and let sleeping dogs lye.



Your dumbass didnt even have to get in this shit.  Dont start no shit u cant finish!


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## Randy (Jul 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Your dumbass didnt even have to get in this shit.  Dont start no shit u cant finish!


  God hand... Grow Up!


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## min0 lee (Jul 7, 2005)




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## Randy (Jul 7, 2005)

mmmmm that looks good...I think I'll have some too


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## shiznit2169 (Jul 7, 2005)

dAMvN said:
			
		

> I didint say you said anything about roids, wut I said was it's like if I talk about roids when I never even taken roids. Your talking about liftin weights when u only been doin it for 4 months and doin it incorrect most likely. And I never said I was BB cuz I aint, I workout to look good. BB is when you go tot he gym 6 times a week. I sometimes make it to the gym 3 times a week. Dont get me wrong I take it seriously, but I know I aint no freakin BB, I just know what I'm doin and making myself look good. My point is.... You dont know shit because you havint worked out long enough to know anything. ALl you do is read and think you know. On the other hand, I listin keep my mouth shut, learn and train harder than you.



ok, i see where you're getting at about the roids. You're taking it the wrong way about me lifting for 4 months. When i say "serious", i mean i am 100% dedicated reading up and learning about BB, Powerlifting, weights, cardio, nutrition, etc, etc. I really started lifting when i was 14. I was not as experienced as i was lifting off and on. I basically lifted just to be strong for sports when i played in high school. However, about a year ago i really wanted to change the way i looked. I really got into lifting so i read every book i could find and overtrained like crazy (which was stupid on my part). I stopped for a while because i was too busy with school and sports so 4 months ago, i finally had free time to do what i love to do. Don't act like i am a total newbie who doesn't know anything. Just because i haven't worked out "long enough" like you said, doesn't mean i don't know shit. I have a lot of general knowledge about lifting than the average person (not saying i know everything, but most). My friends think i am crazy and it really bothers me that most people, my family included, think i am wasting my life eating the same foods everyday and wasting time in the gym destroying my body. They don't understand so i have stopped trying to explain to them why i do this.

I am currently doing what you guys are doing. Lifting 4 days a week, eating 6 small meals a day portioning each so the macronutrient ratio's is where i need it and so forth. I am still doing a lot of research because i am eager to learn more and i have learned a lot from several people on these boards. Lastly, never ever tell me that you "learn and train harder" than me because you don't even know me and what i go through everyday. Listen to your own advice and keep your mouth shut.

Thank you, that's all i have to say.


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## Duncans Donuts (Jul 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Cut back on the coffie.....after 2 months away from this forum, the first thing you do is attack some 17 year old about 20x in a row. Start bragging about how much better your stats are compared to this high school kid...who is natural  by the way.
> You can write a book on every thread, but don't say I am wrong because I give an answer without writing 3 paragraphs with some Physiology charts added. If you continue to attack me for no reason other than your ego, I will be on your case whenever I feel like it.



He said my brother was a bitch, and had a bird chest.  That's all the reason I need for a response.  What do you mean cut back the coffee?  You make no sense.  When did I attack him 20 times in a row?  

You bragged about how your simple rationale was right.  You bragged, too, and then went berzerk when I didn't agree with you.  Be on my case?  What do you have on me??  Coffee and PHD NUTIRITION class sarcasm?  Come on.


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## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> He said my brother was a bitch, and had a bird chest.  That's all the reason I need for a response.  What do you mean cut back the coffee?  You make no sense.  When did I attack him 20 times in a row?
> 
> You bragged about how your simple rationale was right.  You bragged, too, and then went berzerk when I didn't agree with you.  Be on my case?  What do you have on me??  Coffee and PHD NUTIRITION class sarcasm?  Come on.


    Lay off the crack.
I never brag.


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## GFR (Jul 7, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> He said my brother was a bitch, and had a bird chest.  That's all the reason I need for a response.  What do you mean cut back the coffee?  You make no sense.  When did I attack him 20 times in a row?
> 
> You bragged about how your simple rationale was right.  You bragged, too, and then went berzerk when I didn't agree with you.  Be on my case?  What do you have on me??  Coffee and PHD NUTIRITION class sarcasm?  Come on.


You have been back 1 day and have 24 posts.....all on this thread.    my bad it's 24 attacks in a row not 20

It's berserk not berzerk, and NUTRITION not NUTIRITION.


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## MyK (Jul 7, 2005)

$20 that forman will be the last guy to post on this thread!! anytakers???


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## Randy (Jul 7, 2005)

MyK said:
			
		

> $20 that forman will be the last guy to post on this thread!! anytakers???


 I don't think I would want to take that bet.


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## Milkyway777 (Jul 8, 2005)

This thread is pathetic, grow up children........


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## god hand (Jul 8, 2005)

Milkyway777 said:
			
		

> This thread is pathetic, grow up children........


Yet your monkey ass took the time to post on it.


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## GFR (Jul 8, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Yet your monkey ass to the time to post on it.


              
No shit I just love these loser's who jump on a thread and play Daddy,....9 times of of 10 they end up posting more than a dozen times and acting more like a fool than anyone else....for example D.D. or Randy.     

Great post GH


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## Randy (Jul 8, 2005)

That's ok,  you can call me daddy


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 8, 2005)

so many newb haters.....


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 8, 2005)

Mike isnt here... just me


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## min0 lee (Jul 8, 2005)

Hey Foreman, did you ever meet Johnnny?


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## GFR (Jul 8, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> Mike isnt here... just me


My bad, I thought you 2 were the same person.


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 8, 2005)

lol no.. im much better looking


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## min0 lee (Jul 8, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> My bad, I thought you 2 were the same person.


They are close brothers and Camaro was a Mod a few months ago.


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## min0 lee (Jul 8, 2005)

So don't mess around with him.


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 8, 2005)

wurd to your muther


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## Randy (Jul 8, 2005)

DD is a good guy, you just have to get to know him.
 He comes across rough on the edges at first.


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## Randy (Jul 8, 2005)

Nobody knows it all...................... Except me


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## GFR (Jul 8, 2005)

Randy said:
			
		

> Nobody knows it all...


Randy, I like you more every day, I agree 100%.


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## Randy (Jul 8, 2005)

Why thank you Foreman


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## Randy (Jul 8, 2005)

You think they are the same person? 
  It is funny that Duncan appears right after I ask Camaro about him


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## Randy (Jul 8, 2005)

I think this has turned into a whoring thread.


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 8, 2005)

trust me... we aint the same person...


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## Randy (Jul 8, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> trust me... we aint the same person...


 I believe ya Camaro...  Why would one lie about something like that?


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## Randy (Jul 8, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Look at their post times, and when they have been here and gone away...???


 
 To know for sure you check their IP addresses...  Robert could do that, but I believe Camaro so no need for that stuff.


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## Randy (Jul 8, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Because its the Internet.


 Camaro doesn't lie, he was a mod


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## god hand (Jul 8, 2005)

Randy said:
			
		

> Camaro doesn't lie, he was a mod


He was a mod......not a God.


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## Duncans Donuts (Jul 8, 2005)

We come off of the same router.  WE aren't the same person.


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## Duncans Donuts (Jul 8, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> He is a prick and a preachy know it all, except he doesn't know it all....



Get off my dick.  Stop posting about me.


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## King Silverback (Jul 8, 2005)

Whats up Brother Duncan? Hows it goin?


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## Randy (Jul 8, 2005)

Yeah whatup Mr. D.     Anthing good happening this weekend?


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## smithieaus (Jul 8, 2005)

Could be because they are not going all out to failure.

This could be because they don't have a spotter to rack the bar or their arms are failing before thier pecs.

Or not enough rest.


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## Randy (Jul 9, 2005)

Foreman...

You need to lay off brother Duncan... You're just antagonizing him...
Just put all the bullshit aside and shake hands...


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## Randy (Jul 9, 2005)

Foreman...

You need to lay off brother Duncan... You're just antagonizing him...
Just put all the bullshit aside and shake hands...


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## Randy (Jul 9, 2005)

Hey look....twins  <whoops>


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## god hand (Jul 9, 2005)

Randy said:
			
		

> Hey look....twins  <whoops>


Thats what your moma said when your ass came out second........in other words, your a mistake!


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## camarosuper6 (Jul 9, 2005)

that really wasnt funny though


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## Randy (Jul 9, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Thats what your moma said when your ass came out second........in other words, your a mistake!


Yeah that wasn't funny!..


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## god hand (Jul 9, 2005)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> that really wasnt funny though


The truth hurts camarosupersport.


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## Randy (Jul 9, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> The truth hurts camarosupersport.


 Then Camaro doesn't have to worry about enduring any pain, as you don't speak the truth!


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## GFR (Jul 9, 2005)




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## GFR (Jul 9, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> Get off my dick.  Stop posting about me.


From this point on I will just ignore you and I hope you do the same to my posts. Peace


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## VipeR (Jul 9, 2005)

and i thought the gym was a "harsh" enviroment..


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## Randy (Jul 9, 2005)

VipeR said:
			
		

> and i thought the gym was a "harsh" enviroment..


 This makes a gym look like childs play


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## god hand (Jul 10, 2005)

This damn thread is gettin to 400!


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## GFR (Jul 10, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> This damn thread is gettin to 400!


This is a good example of a thread that should have been closed about 300 posts ago.


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## god hand (Jul 10, 2005)

389 :d


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## paul e (Jul 20, 2005)

>>bench press is 90% delt work<<

This is just such BS!  Yes.. bench pressing is alot of shoulder.  But anybody who says it is MORE shoulder than chest, let alone 90% shoulder either is doing some pretty strange looking bench technique, or simply doesnt know what they are talking about.


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## 99hawkins (Jul 21, 2005)

Chest is my weakness I think, but I refuse to let myself believe it's due to genetics. My Dad had a hench chest......I hope it's not genetics


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## CowPimp (Jul 23, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> This muscle gets workout by most people more than any, but few have a good chest! This doesnt make sense! I see people do what probably is the most known bodybuilding exercise (bench press) and yet they might put up good numbers, they have a small chest. SOMETHINGS NOT RIGHTand there must be another exercise that can produce chest growth. I dont do decline exercises for chest because I already have a good lower chest, but maybe doing the will simulate growth overall?
> 
> Does anybody else have an better explanation why a lot of people have an undeveloped chest?



In short, people's chests are weak because they lift like pussies and they eat like crap.  

Also, there is no lower and upper chest.  The pectoralis major constitutes two heads, but they are functionally one muscle because you cannot contract one head without contracting the other.  Decline presses are great for one's chest, as they put more emphasis on your chest and take it away from your shoulders.  Typically, people can decline press more than they can flat press.


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## paul e (Jul 23, 2005)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> In short, people's chests are weak because they lift like pussies and they eat like crap.
> 
> Also, there is no lower and upper chest.  The pectoralis major constitutes two heads, but they are functionally one muscle because you cannot contract one head without contracting the other.  Decline presses are great for one's chest, as they put more emphasis on your chest and take it away from your shoulders.  Typically, people can decline press more than they can flat press.



Cant you hit the exact same head by doing deep dips, leaning slightly forward?  Wouldnt these dips tend to make decline presses redundant?  I prefer the dips, and of course, we can go for reps to exhaustion, using just body weight, or we can go heavy for 4-6 with wt belt, and accomplish the same thing or more as we could on the decline bench.


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## CowPimp (Jul 23, 2005)

paul e said:
			
		

> Cant you hit the exact same head by doing deep dips, leaning slightly forward?  Wouldnt these dips tend to make decline presses redundant?  I prefer the dips, and of course, we can go for reps to exhaustion, using just body weight, or we can go heavy for 4-6 with wt belt, and accomplish the same thing or more as we could on the decline bench.



Yeah, the mechanics of the lifts are similar enough.  Do whatever you prefer.  Dips are great too.


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## smallfry (Aug 29, 2005)

i know what your saying MinOlee just when your dealing w/ retards and perverts they naturally take it the other way ..


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## min0 lee (Aug 29, 2005)

smallfry said:
			
		

> i know what your saying MinOlee just when your dealing w/ retards and perverts they naturally take it the other way ..


Huh?


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## MuscleM4n (Aug 29, 2005)

I can bench press a lot (in comparison to my weight and training experience) and my chest is underdeveloped 

It will grow with time, just need patience


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## god hand (Aug 30, 2005)

MuscleM4n said:
			
		

> I can bench press a lot (in comparison to my weight and training experience) and my chest is underdeveloped
> 
> It will grow with time, just need patience


Have u tried push ups?


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## MuscleM4n (Aug 30, 2005)

no i havn't god hand! Do you recommend weighted push-ups? (bag on my back with plate inside)


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## GFR (Aug 30, 2005)




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## god hand (Aug 30, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

>


I told u it was gonna get to 400 bitch!


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## GFR (Aug 30, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> I told u it was gonna get to 400 bitch!


And I care why???


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## god hand (Oct 17, 2006)

ForemanRules said:


> And I care why???


Because your a post whore


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## viet_jon (Oct 17, 2006)

MuscleM4n said:


> I can bench press a lot (in comparison to my weight and training experience) and my chest is underdeveloped
> 
> It will grow with time, just need patience




IMO.........it doesn't matter how much weight you can throw up. It's what muscles your concentrating on contracting that builds it.


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## viet_jon (Oct 17, 2006)

god hand said:


> Because your a post whore




1 yr later................your messed.


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## GFR (Oct 17, 2006)

god hand said:


> Because your a post whore


Took you 10 months and that is all you could come up with?


----------



## viet_jon (Oct 17, 2006)

Lol...!!!


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## god hand (Oct 17, 2006)

ForemanRules said:


> Took you 10 months and that is all you could come up with?


10 months? What part of the world do u live in?


----------



## viet_jon (Oct 17, 2006)

god hand said:


> 10 months? What part of the world do u live in?




More like, who taught him math?


----------



## BraveUlysses (Oct 17, 2006)

Whoa! This was a crazy thread...


----------



## kenwood (Oct 17, 2006)

did anyone ven answer the question of this thread?


----------



## kenwood (Oct 17, 2006)

ok soo far i have this for the answer:

1. not stretching the chest at the bottom position of the bench.
2. not squeezing pecs while going in the positive phase and at the top.
3. genetics
4. Diet
5. Need a low bodyfat % to have good developed pecs
6. Foreman sated that his penis burns when he pees


----------



## god hand (Oct 18, 2006)

kenwood said:


> ok soo far i have this for the answer:
> 
> 1. not stretching the chest at the bottom position of the bench.
> 2. *not squeezing pecs while going in the positive phase and at the top.*
> ...



That shit just does not make any sense. Number 3 and 4 are the #1 reason as usual


----------



## Witchblade (Oct 18, 2006)

Please keep this thread running. There's nothing on TV.


----------



## ffemt (Oct 18, 2006)

ForemanRules said:


> My dick burns when I pee....but it's not getting bigger.


----------



## ffemt (Oct 18, 2006)

So if  I masterbate and it dont burn,It want get bigger?and all these years I've been beating the hell out of this little thing.Damn


----------



## Spud (Oct 18, 2006)

I'm pretty proud of my chest. It just needs some more mass.


----------



## kenwood (Oct 18, 2006)

Spud said:


> I'm pretty proud of my chest. It just needs some more mass.



i'm proud of it too


----------



## Spud (Oct 18, 2006)

Thanks. I've kept it nice and squishy just for you.


----------



## Witchblade (Oct 18, 2006)

kenwood said:


> i'm proud of it too


Are you proud of spud's chest too...?

Or are you proud of your gyno?




*ahem* To actually contribute something with this post: there is no inner chest.


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## kenwood (Oct 18, 2006)

Witchblade said:


> Are you proud of spud's chest too...?
> 
> Or are you proud of your gyno?
> 
> ...



*No Shit?!?!*


----------

