# I have hit a road block with my diet, I need help!



## Elipika (Aug 25, 2003)

I have been doing a low carb/ high protein diet. I dropped 10lbs  in the first 2 months, but the last month and a half I have not lost anything? I have incorporated more cardio to try and burn the fat off, but I can not tell a difference. I weigh 220lbs with 15% body fat. My goal is to get below 10% body fat at around 220lbs. I will include my diet and workout schedule below. Can some one please help me?
Average daily diet:
meal 1: Cereal ( Bran flakes w/ skim milk)
meal 2: Nitro tech bar (low carb bar)
meal 3: 1 can of Tuna packed in water
meal4: Nitro tech bar
Meal 5: Bag of 97% fat free beef jerky
Meal 6: steak, green beans and rice.


*** I eat like this strictly during the week, on the weekend it sways a bit, because I am on the road.

I work out four times a week, 2 body parts a day. Plus I hit cardio 3 times a week doing 30 to 40 minutes of low intensity cardio. I also do high intensity cardio twice a week ( 8's, 8 100 yard sprints)


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## Jodi (Aug 25, 2003)

meal 1: Cereal ( Bran flakes w/ skim milk)
*Need protein and oats, skip the milk and cereal*
meal 2: Nitro tech bar (low carb bar)
*Have a protein shake instead, bars are crap*
meal 3: 1 can of Tuna packed in water
*Need veggies but its fine*
meal4: Nitro tech bar
*Same here, bars are crap*
Meal 5: Bag of 97% fat free beef jerky
*You should eat some chicken breast of fish that stuff is full of sodium and all sorts of garbage*
Meal 6: steak, green beans and rice.
*This is fine but I would move the brown rice to another meal, try and do no carbs on your last meal*


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## Elipika (Aug 25, 2003)

is the Cardio Ok? Or should increase or decrease it?


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## Elipika (Aug 25, 2003)

Ok, you will have to bare with me, because theses next few questions will seem dumb.
What is a good example of:
meal 1: 
[Need protein and oats, skip the milk and cereal]

What Shake do you recommend?

What is a good veggie to eat with the mid day meals, such as tuna and Chicken, preferably something quick?


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## Jodi (Aug 25, 2003)

Here is a shopping list for ya and I use Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey Protein.  You can buy it at 1fast400.com cheap for 5lbs for $30 which includes shipping or 10lbs for $50.00 which includes shipping.

sugar-free low carb protein powder
lean beef
chicken breast
turkey breast
fresh fish
canned tuna
canned salmon
eggs
cottage cheese
sweet potatoes
yams
long grain brown rice
old fashioned oats
steel cut oats
eggplant
squash
romaine lettuce
spinach
asparagus
avocado
broccoli
brussels sprouts
cabbage
cauliflower
cucumbers
celery
peppers (any color)
mushrooms
string beans
zucchini
apples
fresh or frozen (w/o syrup) berries
peaches
grapefruit
olive oil
safflower oil
flax seed oil
walnut oil
almonds
walnuts
natural sugar-free peanut butter


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## Elipika (Aug 25, 2003)

Thanks for the list. Now one more question...sorry to bug you...
How much carbs should I eat with the meals, meaning every other meal or each meal and the amount ( 4 ounces , 6 ounces)? I know you said to drop them from the last meal.....


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## naturalguy (Aug 25, 2003)

there is no problem with eating carbs at your last meal as long as they are the right kind (low glycemic) and the right amount.


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## ZECH (Aug 25, 2003)

Be sure to include some fat in your last meal, as it will be quite a long time before you eat again. (Fat slows the rate of protein digestion)


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## ZECH (Aug 25, 2003)

Read this..............http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18702


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## OceanDude (Aug 25, 2003)

First of all do not be too afraid of scale weight - chances are your body may have decided to go into a growth phase and added some lean tissue which is offsetting the fat loss results as far as the scale sees it. This is a good thing (but I personally know how psychologically alarming this can be).

Also - I only recommend the 100% whey products for your post workout meal. Look into mixing it up with a multi-species protein for other meals or just eat some cottage cheese as a partial protein source.  This will be assimilated a lot slower than the whey and will tend to keep your amino acid pools full over a longer period of time. Especially consider doing 1/2-3/4 of low fat (1%) cottage cheese at bedtime becuase this is when the body repairs and grows after the GH cycle (typically 2 hrs after bed).


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## Elipika (Aug 25, 2003)

what are some examples of low glycemic carbs?

EFA's- walnuts and almonds, plus olive or seed oil on salads, right?


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## Jodi (Aug 25, 2003)

Here's an article on EFA's

All the carbs I put in the list are low glycemic and/or slow burning carbs and if you want to cut my suggestion is no carbs in the last meal.  JMO


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## tigerboo (Aug 25, 2003)

first of all you weigh 220 and have 15% body fat.  Just some advice....when you lose body fat you lose weight.  If you want to get to 10% body fat you're going to lose weight no doubt about it.  You can't stay at 220. For example, right now 15% of your weight is fat so you have 33 lbs of fat on you.  In order to get to 10% bodyfat you'd have to lose 11lbs. of raw fat.  So then you'll have to gain an additional 11lbs. of lean muscle to get back up to your original 220.  You can't do that on a cut which is what you're doing.  You should make realistic goals first.

  I have several questions I think you should answer.  What is your macro nutrient count for the day? P/F/C    And how many total calories are you eating?

  For your weight, I think the initial weight loss came in the lack of calories, not high protein/low carb.  Listen to everyone's advice here, they're giving the correct advice.


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## naturalguy (Aug 25, 2003)

Jodi, There is no problem with carbs at night especially if they are low glycemic and in the right amounts. That is a common myth that people think that their body stores carbs as fat after some specific time at night. There are so many factors that go into it. This person is already on so low carbs that any carbs they take in at night is going to go for glycogen replacement.


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## y2gt (Aug 25, 2003)

Jodi-

Why do you use optimum's 100% whey and not optimum's Pro-complex which has whey and egg proteins in it? Or a multi-species one with whey, egg, casein, etc..?  Just curious.


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## Jodi (Aug 25, 2003)

Naturalguy, there is no one way remember that, you are too one way minded.  This is my opinion, just as you have yours, whether heeds my advice or not is up to him.

Y2gt - Because I prefer the taste and I eat several different protein each day so I'm not concerned about making up for it in a protein powder and choose to go for taste instead.


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## y2gt (Aug 25, 2003)

jodi,


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## naturalguy (Aug 25, 2003)

Of course there are many ways but some are much more effecient and will align with this person's goals. They said they wanted to lose bodyfat not weight. Starvation is not the way to go.

Low/no carbs is a quick fix, short term solution. The leanest bodybiulders (I am talking about people that get to 3-5% bodyfat) all eat carbs, they know the right types and the right times to eat them. Carbs will allow you to train hard which is essential to getting lean. You can't drive your car without gas!


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## Elipika (Aug 25, 2003)

I realize that I will have to drop down towards 200 to 205lbs, once I do that I will try to add the "right" type of weight.

I also realize that my diet was totally whack, That is why I came on here for help.
p/f/c is roughly 170/ 30/100

I try to get more Protein, but it kills the gut, any tips on that?
I have not been counting calories, whip me now......I know, what a putz.


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## Jodi (Aug 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> Of course there are many ways but some are much more effecient and will align with this person's goals. They said they wanted to lose bodyfat not weight. Starvation is not the way to go.
> 
> Low/no carbs is a quick fix, short term solution. The leanest bodybiulders (I am talking about people that get to 3-5% bodyfat) all eat carbs, they know the right types and the right times to eat them. Carbs will allow you to train hard which is essential to getting lean. You can't drive your car without gas!


Again this is your opinion and you don't know what works for him just as well as I don't.  I cannot do carbs at bedtime and I don't know many here that do.  With the proper caloric intake he will not be in starvation mode.  Just because you don't like low carb diets doesn't mean the rest of us don't.  I did it for over a year and put on several pounds of muscle all while staying lean.  Stop thinking your way is the only way because many people here can prove you its not.


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## Jodi (Aug 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Elipika *_
> I realize that I will have to drop down towards 200 to 205lbs, once I do that I will try to add the "right" type of weight.
> 
> I also realize that my diet was totally whack, That is why I came on here for help.
> ...


You need to start counting what your eating so you know where to adjust your caloric intake.  That is not nearly enough calories by far.  Not enough protein, fat or carbs.  I eat more than you.


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## ZECH (Aug 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Here's an article on EFA's
> 
> All the carbs I put in the list are low glycemic and/or slow burning carbs and if you want to cut my suggestion is no carbs in the last meal.  JMO


(I posted it first  )


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## naturalguy (Aug 25, 2003)

there is a difference between myth and fact and most people, especially on this board, are carbophobic when they don't need to be, it's not just my opinion, it is fact.


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## OceanDude (Aug 25, 2003)

I tend to agree naturalguy - you need carbs to grow muscle and carbs can be your friend just as protein and fat can be your friend.


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## Jodi (Aug 25, 2003)

I am not saying you don't need carbs cuz you most certainly do.  I'm just saying that you don't need them before bed while cutting.


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## Shmoo (Aug 25, 2003)

I also agree with naturalguy. I have tried cutting many ways and I know everyone is different but for me low carbs are not so good. Going very low carbs with twice weekly carbups cut the fat nicely but also lost more muscle than I wanted. 
My workouts suffer bc of the low carbs and my carbups were depleted by the second day. 
Keeping the carbs and fats moderate, protein high and the total daily calories in check give me better results. For me as long as there low glycemic carbs, time of the day dosn`t really matter if I stay within my calories I can cut.
Not trying to choose sides just stating what works for me.


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## ZECH (Aug 25, 2003)

Could it be women respond better to low carbs than guys do??


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## tigerboo (Aug 25, 2003)

IMO, if you're going to keep carbs low, then you should make up those calories with fat.  If you go low carb/low fat then you're primary source of energy will be protein.  So when you're body is burning calories it will burn muscle in effect.  But if you up your fat intake, your body will burn fat for energy, and your body doesn't distinguish between dietary fat and body fat.


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## Jodi (Aug 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by tigerboo *_
> IMO, if you're going to keep carbs low, then you should make up those calories with fat.  If you go low carb/low fat then you're primary source of energy will be protein.  So when you're body is burning calories it will burn muscle in effect.  But if you up your fat intake, your body will burn fat for energy, and your body doesn't distinguish between dietary fat and body fat.


I agree compelety.  Here's the irony of this whole thing.  I'm not on a low carb diet.  I'm on a carb cycling plan by TP.  I do need carbs for energy and I can't wait to eat them   But I have gone low carb and for a long time too and I am able to retain not only retain LBM but put muscle on while on a low carb diet and as you said tigerboo that by keeping calories higher from fat. 

I do prefer the carb cycling though.


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## OceanDude (Aug 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Could it be women respond better to low carbs than guys do??



All I know is that cows can't make milk without carbs ... 

sorry, just teasing here...


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## Jodi (Aug 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by OceanDude *_
> All I know is that cows can't make milk without carbs ...
> 
> sorry, just teasing here...




Nuf said? 

Now did we lose this poor guy in all this bickering?


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## Shmoo (Aug 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Could it be women respond better to low carbs than guys do??



I`m beginning to think this, it`s like compairing apples and oranges. Women don`t pack on the muscle guys do so when they cut they have a lot less to lose. 
So unless your competing which is probably 98% of us here, for the guys anyways, getting to 9-10% bodyfat you don`t have to go carb low crazy.


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## OceanDude (Aug 25, 2003)

ahh shucks Jodi, I was just making harmless humor...


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## Jodi (Aug 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Shmoo *_
> I`m beginning to think this, it`s like compairing apples and oranges. Women don`t pack on the muscle guys do so when they cut they have a lot less to lose.
> So unless your competing which is probably 98% of us here, for the guys anyways, getting to 9-10% bodyfat you don`t have to go carb low crazy.


Actually I would say only 10% of the guys here are heading for comp.  More women on this board compete than guys.  Mines in 5 weeks 

OD, yayaya, likely story


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## Shmoo (Aug 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Actually I would say only 10% of the guys here are heading for comp.  More women on this board compete than guys.  Mines in 5 weeks
> 
> OD, yayaya, likely story



I meant to say 98% are not competing or whatever it may be, and good luck on your competition.


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## Jodi (Aug 25, 2003)

Thanks


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## Nate (Aug 25, 2003)

I've found that eating a protein bar as a meal replacement is a completely acceptable form of filling a meal slot.  Maybe it's just my genetics, or maybe it's the tightness of my daily diet, I don't know.  I've been eating atleast one a day for three months now, and not only have I lost bodyfat, but I've gained lean mass as well.


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## Jodi (Aug 26, 2003)

Protein bars would not be advisable to anyone on at cut.    Bulking or maintenance go ahead if you don't mind all the crap thats in them.  I know that I will certainly be indulging on One-Ways and Detours when I go into maintenace but while cutting


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## ZECH (Aug 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> I'm on a carb cycling plan by TP.


Well how about the days you are low on carbs?? I like what Shmoo said. With most men packing more muscle, it's obvious that they need a good supply of carbs every day! I think if you didn't you would loose too much muscle./ Remember, muscle burns more energy................so you have to have the fuel. But I do think you need to watch the kind you eat.


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## Jodi (Aug 26, 2003)

Its one day in between 2 carb days and I haven't lost and ounce of muscle yet?


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## naturalguy (Aug 26, 2003)

Jodi, that one day that you eat no carbs comprimises your workout, you can't train as hard therefore you are missing an opportunity to build muscle. How do you know you haven't lost any musle? Have you had your bodyfat checked regularly by a DEXA machine?


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## ZECH (Aug 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Its one day in between 2 carb days and I haven't lost and ounce of muscle yet?


You might can get by with it. But what about a 200-220 lb man??


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## Jodi (Aug 26, 2003)

Well that one day is my day off at the gym.

Caliper test, measurements etc. proven no bf lost.

You really need to open your mind to new ideas.  I thought I've seen some close minded people on this board before but let me tell ya you really take the cake


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## naturalguy (Aug 26, 2003)

I am not close minded, I know what works and what doesn't, I have been at this game a long time. 98% of people on low/no carb diets gain their weight back and more because they lose muscle. Muscle is the only tissue in the body that burns calories.


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## Jodi (Aug 26, 2003)

Carb cycling is not a low carb diet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Twin Peak (Aug 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Well how about the days you are low on carbs?? I like what Shmoo said. With most men packing more muscle, it's obvious that they need a good supply of carbs every day! I think if you didn't you would loose too much muscle./ Remember, muscle burns more energy................so you have to have the fuel. But I do think you need to watch the kind you eat.



Really?  What is so "obvious" about it?  Or have I lost too much muscle?  Probably, its just that I don't carry as much as most of the guys here, so I don't have as much to lose.


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## Twin Peak (Aug 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> You might can get by with it. But what about a 200-220 lb man??



Like me?


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## naturalguy (Aug 26, 2003)

No need to get excited, we are just sharing ideas here. I have seen your program and understand the carb cycling idea however as I have expressed before I believe you would get much better results eating more carbs and adding cardio.


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## ZECH (Aug 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Like me?


It's obvious that you need more than Jodi.  I just don't think someone your size(especially if thinking of competing) can afford to slack on his eating, including carbs and chance muscle loss, or more, the chance to gain muscle.


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## Twin Peak (Aug 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> I am not close minded



You certainly have established otherwise.




> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> I know what works and what doesn't



Really?  So you have tried everything?  And you have seen all sorts of people of all sorts of geno and pheno types try everything?  And you have been able to compare progress or lack thereof?  

This is such an overgeneralized silly statement its impossible to respond to.  Everything works, to some degree.  It is not about what works and what doesn't as you so simplistically observe, but rather what is optimal and efficient.



> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> I have been at this game a long time.



Ah, and longervity equals knowledge in your world?  Or were you seeking to prove something with your apparent age?



> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> 98% of people on low/no carb diets gain their weight back and more because they lose muscle.



98% of all dieters gain weight back.  Why, because they revert to their old ways.  A well thought out cyclical carbohydrate approach will not cause anything but a small muscle loss, at worst.  And cut where you drop to an unnaturally low bodyfat level will see *some* muscle loss.

Its is testiiment to Jodi's success that halfway through here cut she has reduced bodyfat, yet strength is up.

Your omniscient knowledge of her, this plan, and her results is ridiculous.



> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> Muscle is the only tissue in the body that burns calories.



Really?  So adipose does not utilize nutrients and calories to survive?  Neither does blood, and bone?

Where have you attained your knowledge of physiologu and biochemistry?  Or did you just absorb it through osmosis during your inordinately long time on this planet?


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## Twin Peak (Aug 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> It's obvious that you need more than Jodi.  I just don't think someone your size(especially if thinking of competing) can afford to slack on his eating, including carbs and chance muscle loss, or more, the chance to gain muscle.



For both of my competitions I used a nearly identical approach.  No one cutting for a contest is gaining muscle unless on copious amounts of androgens.  To think otherwise is naivite at its height.


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## Twin Peak (Aug 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> No need to get excited, we are just sharing ideas here. I have seen your program and understand the carb cycling idea however as I have expressed before I believe you would get much better results eating more carbs and adding cardio.



It is one thing to have a difference of opinion, it is quite another to make outlandish predictions regarding a specific individuals success (or lack thereof) especially when not viewed in the context they are in.

The full article of this plan will be out shortly.  We can start a thread then and I look forward to your critique.


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## naturalguy (Aug 26, 2003)

I was waiting for you to join in.............



Really?  So adipose does not utilize nutrients and calories to survive?  Neither does blood, and bone?

That is correct!

Yes, there are many ways to do things, I can walk to Florida from New York but it is much more effecient to fly!


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## naturalguy (Aug 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> For both of my competitions I used a nearly identical approach.  No one cutting for a contest is gaining muscle unless on copious amounts of androgens.  To think otherwise is naivite at its height.



While I would agree that it is extremely difficult to build muscle while on a cutting program, it is certainly not impossible.......even as a natural bodybuilder. That being said, you do not have to give up muscle when your cutting if you eat and train intelligently.


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## OceanDude (Aug 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> I was waiting for you to join in.............
> 
> 
> ...



This is incorrect - fat, bone, etc. imparts _some_ metabolic load on the body simply because it requires to be supplied blood flow and maintenance functions etc. The metabolic overhead is real. Not to mention you have to carry the weight around all day which also requires energy. It's not anywhere as high as muscle though.

Zig Zag carb cycling is a legitimate technique. ONe must not forget that there is a fair amount of energy available in glycogen stores and depending on intensity and activity levels 2 days without high levels of carbs is not necessairly bad - expecially on a cutting phase. But in a growth phase I would be inclined to stick with fairly level amounts of carbs except permit a "tapering" methodology toward the latter meals in the day.


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## Elipika (Aug 26, 2003)

thanks for all the input.
 I know I want to get down to 10%, but I don't want to burn Muscle. Is there a set time on how long to cut, meaning I don't want to do it too long to where it starts burning muscle. 
Once again thanks for all the advice.


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## kdwa1 (Aug 26, 2003)

Just thought I'd jump in here.For what it's worth,carbs do burn better if taken in morn or mid day.Late carbs tend to store as fat as metabolism slows during sleep.But still depends on quality and quantity.I have 50 g days and 100 g days.Easy to feel drawn without a good carb balance to fats and protein.Ultra low carb is a tough road.


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## moidance (Aug 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Carb cycling




Can you post the info. about carb cycling?

Thanks


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## Twin Peak (Aug 26, 2003)

My article will be available for public discussion, ridicule or what have you in early September in Mind and Muscle.

I'll keep you posted.


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## moidance (Aug 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> My article will be available for public discussion, ridicule or what have you in early September in Mind and Muscle.
> 
> I'll keep you posted.




Brill and thanks


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## naturalguy (Aug 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kdwa1 *_
> Just thought I'd jump in here.For what it's worth,carbs do burn better if taken in morn or mid day.Late carbs tend to store as fat as metabolism slows during sleep.But still depends on quality and quantity.I have 50 g days and 100 g days.Easy to feel drawn without a good carb balance to fats and protein.Ultra low carb is a tough road.



It all depends on what time you train, you should have your starchy, higher glycemic carbs timed around your workouts even if it is 9pm, those carbs at that time will go toward glycogen repleneshment.

Everyone is throwing the word carbs around, the is a huge difference in carbs, if I eat a bag of potato chips and I eat a bowl of oatmeal my body will treat them very differently.


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## Elipika (Sep 2, 2003)

what is the website to find out values of certain foods? I saw it on here before....


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## Jodi (Sep 2, 2003)

Heres a few


Nutritional Food Database


Fitday


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## Elipika (Sep 2, 2003)

Fitday...that was it , thanks. 
How many Calories should I be taking in?


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## Jodi (Sep 2, 2003)

Depends on your goals.

Cutting: start with 12G per pound
Maintain: 14G per pound
Bulk : Start with 15G per pound (increase as necessary)


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