# Best abdominal exercise



## Ralphie (Apr 11, 2003)

So what do you think is the best ad exercise(s)

I am looking to put together a good ab workout..


Inclined crunches?
Weighted everything?

jackknives? what is your opinion?


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## mda1125 (Apr 11, 2003)

*Weighted Crunches*

Recently read an article that said weighted crunches (lay on the floor, get the rope as close to your head as possible, and put the weight high enough so you can only do 6-8) is the best bet.

They were going on the principal that doing hundreds of crunches might make for better endurance but really doesn't overload the muscles, which makes them bigger.

You don't bench 135 x 25 times and then just keep increasing..  Most people in the forum will tell you to train heavy.  So why any different with abs?

Granted, each individual will respond differently.  That goes back to the calf debate if you should go heavy for 6-8 or 15-20.  Some people get stronger at the 6-8 range but notice no size increases.

So this is just a general statement above.  

And of course, diet affects how visible the abs are since males seem to carry most of their weight around the mid-section.

So my vote is for weighted crunches, then incline crunches (holding a weight to the chest).  Of course incline weighted crunches, you might be able to hold more weight then is safe.


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## I Are Baboon (Apr 11, 2003)

*Re: Weighted Crunches*



> _*Originally posted by mda1125 *_
> Recently read an article that said weighted crunches (lay on the floor, get the rope as close to your head as possible, and put the weight high enough so you can only do 6-8) is the best bet.



Historically, I have never really done ab isolation exercises, but I have been doing them over the last couple of months.  I am trying to grow my abs muscles, and I find that weighted cruches on a Swiss ball work well.  I do four sets, 8-10 reps each.


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## FortifiedIron (Apr 11, 2003)

Declined Barbell Crunches



Kc


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## Ralphie (Apr 11, 2003)

declined barbell crunches?
What?


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## FortifiedIron (Apr 11, 2003)

Hold a LOADed barbell across your chest, with use of partner if you have one. You can use a chambered bar if you have one, they work the best. Make sure its a FULL crunch not a punny!


Kc


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## Ralphie (Apr 11, 2003)

OH, you mean incline?
Decline is what threw me off.. I've only seen it referred to as inclined.


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## seyone (Apr 12, 2003)

I love weighted roman chairs.


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## FortifiedIron (Apr 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Ralphie *_
> OH, you mean incline?
> Decline is what threw me off.. I've only seen it referred to as inclined.



I still mean decline. Do a 4x15 decline barbell situps and follow it up with 4x6 saxon bends or bent presses your abs and obliquies will be screaming in the morning.


Kc


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## Arnold (Apr 12, 2003)

You guys ever tried an ab roller? Those are killer, I hate them!


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## T2G (Apr 12, 2003)

Three of my favorites:  

Crunch
Reverse Crunch
Oblique Crunch (lying on your side)


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## marshal959 (Apr 12, 2003)

ball crunch 3x15-25
ground crunch w/plate  3x15-25
leg lifts or decline crunch   3x15-25

always go past the really painful part
really heavy weight and low rep may make you midsection thicker

dietdietdietdietdietdiet!!!!!


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 12, 2003)

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=6683&highlight=abs


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 12, 2003)

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=9710&perpage=10&highlight=abs&pagenumber=1

I do like serious resistance in lower rep ranges like I did today...

DP


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## Charger (Apr 13, 2003)

Cable Kneeling Crunch
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/RectusAbdominis/CBKneelingCrunch.html

Swiss ball crunch's 
Roman Chair weighted crunch


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## tjwes (Apr 13, 2003)

If you want a small waistline you should never do weighted ab movements.The abs grow just like any other muscle,and in time your waist size will increase taking away from your taper.Remember B.B. is a sport of illusions and you can create the illusion of being bigger if you have a nice V-shape.Especially important if you compete.Sit-ups are a waste of time ,the function of the abs is to bring your sternum closer to your pelvic bone.Do crunches slowly and reverse crunches and add a STRETHING EXERCISE SUCH AS ROMAN CHAIRS,do them in tri-set fashion and keep moving ,make it intense.


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## katie64 (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> You guys ever tried an ab roller? Those are killer, I hate them!




Do Ab Roller's really work???????? I asked W8 if I could incorporate and Ab Routine into by workouts, I need it..........


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## I Are Baboon (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> You guys ever tried an ab roller? Those are killer, I hate them!



The roller where you lie and your back and rock?  You are not referring to the ab wheel, are you?  That ab wheel kills my lower back.

The Swiss ball is the shit.


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## katie64 (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by I Are Baboon *_
> The roller where you lie and your back and rock?  You are not referring to the ab wheel, are you?  That ab wheel kills my lower back.
> 
> *I can't do the roller your talking about baboon, it's awkward, and the other is a back killer, I tried it at a friend's once, fine going down, it's getting back up, LOL*
> ...



*Are you saying that the SB is the best way to work the abs????*


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by katie64 *_
> Do Ab Roller's really work???????? I asked W8 if I could incorporate and Ab Routine into by workouts, I need it..........



I find the rollers less effective unless doing what I call "Jackie Chans"

Like this, but to full extension...this is as far as you would want to go however for practical purpose:


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 16, 2003)

and finish


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## I Are Baboon (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by katie64 *_
> *Are you saying that the SB is the best way to work the abs????*



I certainly can not say it's the _best_, but it works well for me.  Everyone's got their favorites and there are lots of effective ab exercises.  I simply prefer crunches on a Swiss ball (I hold a 35 lb plate on my chest, but I need to up that weight because three 15-20 rep sets are getting too easy).


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## katie64 (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> "Jackie Chans"



Yikes, there is no way I could do those now..........


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## katie64 (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by I Are Baboon *_
> I certainly can not say it's the _best_, but it works well for me.  Everyone's got their favorites and there are lots of effective ab exercises.  I simply prefer crunches on a Swiss ball (I hold a 35 lb plate on my chest, but I need to up that weight because three 15-20 rep sets are getting too easy).



So one way to work the abs, I want to get rid of fat and strengthen my muscle, low w8, high reps or what....have you heard of "Ab Boot Camp"????????


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## I Are Baboon (Apr 16, 2003)

I have not heard of ab boot camp.  My gym offers ab-blaster classes, but I am too scared to try one.  

I am trying to build up my abdominals, thus the high weight, low reps.  If you keep the weight low with higher reps, you may flatten your tummy, but you won't build your ab muscles.


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## katie64 (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by I Are Baboon *_
> I have not heard of ab boot camp.
> 
> AB BOOT CAMP
> ...



I want to flatten as well as strengthen my muscles, every area is strong ( to a degree) except my stomach muscles, probably because I never did anything to strengthen them after pregnancies.  

So what do you think???????????


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## Ralphie (Apr 16, 2003)

Can anyone tell me the best way to find out what my bf% is?
I know scales aren't accurate at all.. what other methods are there? Besides something like sitting in a water tank....?

I prolly have too much bf% to see my abs if I keep working at them at this point.. I just want to know where I stand though.. I am a pretty skinny guy.


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## katie64 (Apr 16, 2003)

Fat Calipers


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## J'Bo (Apr 16, 2003)

Ummm i would suggest getting calipers done. NO WATER DUNK. 

The dunk is the most accurate but few people actually get it done...so you wont be able to tell what you aer compared to others, cause they wont be as accurate as you are....plus it is very discouraging...it calculates intermuscular fat as well...calipers dont.

So do the calipers.


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## Ralphie (Apr 16, 2003)

Where can I get some?
And about how accurate are they?


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## Arnold (Apr 16, 2003)

Fat Calipers are as good/accurate as the person using them. 

They're great for tracking progress, but the accuracy can be off by a couple of %

I have a pair of Digital Accumeasure calipers.


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## katie64 (Apr 17, 2003)

Has anyone checked out this site, AB BOOT CAMP 
if so, can you tell me what you think???????


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by katie64 *_
> Has anyone checked out this site, AB BOOT CAMP
> if so, can you tell me what you think???????



Good genetics in the demonstrator, but bad some exercises, bad form in many, too much psoas, and on the good exercises, there are better and more "correct/effective" ways to do them! 

JMHO 

DP


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## katie64 (Apr 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> Good genetics in the demonstrator, but bad some exercises, bad form in many, too much psoas, and on the good exercises, there are better and more "correct/effective" ways to do them!
> 
> JMHO
> ...


Dp............I checked out your "Abs By Vince", is that more for male body builders, any recommendations for me????????? I want to lose fat and build muscle, something I can do more than once a week, or what ever is recommended, this is my problem area, thanks.......


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## katie64 (Apr 17, 2003)

bumping this cuz I want DP to help w/an ab workout


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## katie64 (Apr 19, 2003)

Again...........


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by katie64 *_
> Dp............I checked out your "Abs By Vince", is that more for male body builders, any recommendations for me????????? I want to lose fat and build muscle, something I can do more than once a week, or what ever is recommended, this is my problem area, thanks.......



K, abs are made in the Kitchen (w8 and others)

Those exercises are fine for you....2-3 times a week is good

What we usually do is section the abs into 3 parts, upper rectus, lower rectus, obliques......

and we do or emphasize one area harder, and then hit the others, reverse or rotate that next W/O...so you really end up with an A, B and C W/O.

Upper means your body comes towards your legs, lower, the legs (not knees) come towards the torso, and sides usually involve a twisting motion,,,

I will build you a program later..have to go now sorry!

DP


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## katie64 (Apr 19, 2003)

Thanks so much DP, I appreciate it..............


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## J'Bo (Apr 20, 2003)

Hey DP.
I tried the barbell roll yesterday and ohhhh myyyy godddd.
Good exercise. You just gotta be careful to not use your back too much.
Thanks babe. Keepem comin.


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 20, 2003)

My W/O yesterday 



> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> 
> 
> 1) Incline revers crunches
> ...



The only exercise I did 4 sets of was the one arm oblique chrunch (I love those), the rest where 3's.....and I tried a set of Saxon Side bends, only used 10's....I have a link if you need it ,FI (FortifiedIron) was right, those and using an Olympic cambered BB on declines rock....Dr. J my partner, thinks he is gonna get 25's on those (the declines), to me, so far it being new, the bar is freaking hard! 


J'Bo...here are the links I promised:



http://www.stumptuous.com/abtraining.html


http://www.dolfzine.com/page171.htm


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## J'Bo (Apr 20, 2003)

Thanks DP.
I geuss now i gotta actually do them.
LOL.


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## Arnold (Apr 20, 2003)

Everyone here does realize that the "abs" are one muscle and you cannot work the "lower", "middle" and "upper" sections, right?


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> Everyone here does realize that the "abs" are one muscle and you cannot work the "lower", "middle" and "upper" sections, right?



Like chest mister Prince...I can accentuate the part I wish to!

DO a standing side crunch (short ROM, expale air, handle fixed to the ear, elbow towards illiac crest), place your fingers into your obliques, and leave yout thumb across the rectus...then tell me were you "feel it?" 

DP


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## katie64 (Apr 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> Everyone here does realize that the "abs" are one muscle and you cannot work the "lower", "middle" and "upper" sections, right?



I just wanted an ab workout and no I didn't realize that.........


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## Arnold (Apr 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> Like chest mister Prince...I can accentuate the part I wish to!
> 
> DP



you can, but it will not work.... 

the abdominals (rectus abdominis) is not going to get bigger or more developed in any one section, it's comprised of only ONE muscle, (albeit with tenuous intersections called the linea alba and the linea transversea) running from sternum to pelvis, and can be worked completely with a crunch. 

btw, leg raises do not even work your rectus abdominis, what is actually being stressed is the psoas.


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 21, 2003)

Prince......altough you can activate the rectus with an ordinary crunch, your "All or None Firing" principles do not make this the best or only way to train......and you can target or seperate abdominal regions such as the Transversus Abdominis, Obliques, Intercostals, and to a certain extent intercostal serratus tie-ins.

Plus, Body Building Science, not Anatomy, the Science of Perspiration and Hard Work....not only dictates hitting a muscle or muscles form several angles....but also dictates variety as well, according to Poliquin, and I trust him as a source, as much as 30% less muscle fiber can/will be recruited by the time a body has done an exercise in 3 consective W/O's.

Ask any accomplished BB if a "Crunch" covers the abdominal W/O requirement, and they will they you NO!

Also, we do emply lower abdominal exercises and take measures to deactive psaos invovlement, contraction can be targeted with a working knowledge of you body!..Contraction, is everything when it comes to abs! 

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/Obliques.html

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/RectusAbdominis.html

http://www.exrx.net/Articulations/Spine.html#anchor165002

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/WaistWt.html#anchor172895


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## Arnold (Apr 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> Prince......altough you can activate the rectus with an ordinary crunch, your "All or None Firing" principles do not make this the best or only way to train......and you can target or seperate abdominal regions such as the Transversus Abdominis, Obliques, Intercostals, and to a certain extent intercostal serratus tie-ins.


Okay, but those are different muscles, I was specifically speaking of the "abs". Also, there are variations that can be used, crunches on an incline, crunches with weight, etc.




> Plus, Body Building Science, not Anatomy, the Science of Perspiration and Hard Work....not only dictates hitting a muscle or muscles form several angles....


Yes, to a degree. But how much are we really trying to build when it comes to abs? Is the goal to get a "big abs", I know I would not want that. 




> but also dictates variety as well, according to Poliquin, and I trust him as a source, as much as 30% less muscle fiber can/will be recruited by the time a body has done an exercise in 3 consective W/O's.


But again, how much are we really wanting to build when it comes to abs? But either way, there are many variations that can be used, my main point was that you cannot build or work the "lower abs, "middle abs", or "upper abs" separately. As far aas the 3 work-outs thing, many others would disgree.




> Ask any accomplished BB if a "Crunch" covers the abdominal W/O requirement, and they will they you NO!


Who would this be? I can ask Jay Cutler if inclines will make my upper chest bigger and he will probably say yes, but knowing what I now know, I will know that he's mistaken. 




> Also, we do emply lower abdominal exercises and take measures to deactive psaos invovlement, contraction can be targeted with a working knowledge of you body!..Contraction, is everything when it comes to abs!


Exactly, so why use leg raises to work the abs? If you're going to concentrate on contracting the abs, why do a leg raise in the first place?


DP, I am not really trying to argue or debate this, I just think that it's another gym myth people thinking that they're going to actually target their lower abs. It's even worse when people think that is how their going to make their lower abs more defined. 

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.


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## Rissole (Apr 21, 2003)

I like doing wieghted crunches of a fit ball, use the lower pulley on a cable X machine and rope over the shoulders 
I also like hovers on the fitball


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