# MGF w CJC or GHRP?



## Dcrazy (May 25, 2012)

Okay say one is going to research w MGF. Would it be better suited w/ cjc w out the dac, or just GHRP 2?
Goals:
Muscle recovery
Aid in size
Aid in bulk( not looking lose fat )
Based on goals....what do you think would be best. Also, I could just do MGF seperate for 4 weeks and then do one of the other two after.
Also, I am on TRT test cyp. Thanks.


Side note: I seen ppl complain about hunger in ghrp2 and actually of all things sleeping problems? Idk, never used a pep yet.


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## Pittsburgh63 (May 25, 2012)

MGF is unrelated to GHRP's and GHRH's.  GHRP is going to be more effective on it's own, compared to the GHRH's.. but I still recommend that you pair them together.  Some research subjects to experience sleep disturbances from the GHRP-2.  This is due to an increase in cortisol levels.  There is no guarentee that this will happen in your research, but it is a very real possibility.

Use the MGF 10-15 minutes post workout.  Natty MGF levels will peak, as you are introducing the exogenous MGF.  Wait 15-20 minutes and admister GHRP/GHRH combo.


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## crackrbaby (May 25, 2012)

^^^^^ Pittsburgh knows his Sh*t..This is almost exactly how I am running my Peps. 
 Take a look: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/r...1295-mini-log-purchase-peptides-products.html


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## keith1569 (May 25, 2012)

Good post pitt I was unaware how fast it peaked


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## blergs. (May 25, 2012)

if your not lookind to lose fat and want mass scratch it all and just get IGF1LR3 and go: wk1-8 50-100mcg ed. 
or even the above with this in there.


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## blergs. (May 25, 2012)

Pittsburgh63 said:


> MGF is unrelated to GHRP's and GHRH's.  GHRP is going to be more effective on it's own, compared to the GHRH's.. but I still recommend that you pair them together.  Some research subjects to experience sleep disturbances from the GHRP-2.  This is due to an increase in cortisol levels.  There is no guarentee that this will happen in your research, but it is a very real possibility.
> 
> Use the MGF 10-15 minutes post workout.  Natty MGF levels will peak, as you are introducing the exogenous MGF.  Wait 15-20 minutes and admister GHRP/GHRH combo.




And if your going for mass, might as welll get GHRP-6 it makes most extra hunger after dosing.


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## Pittsburgh63 (May 25, 2012)

blergs. said:


> And if your going for mass, might as welll get GHRP-6 it makes most extra hunger after dosing.



For sure.. i love to use GHRP-6  PWO.  I also agree with you that IGF would be a very good addition to add LBM.  My advice above was just based on the parameters outlined in the OP's original post.


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## Dcrazy (May 25, 2012)

Pittsburgh63 said:


> For sure.. i love to use GHRP-6  PWO.  I also agree with you that IGF would be a very good addition to add LBM.  My advice above was just based on the parameters outlined in the OP's original post.



Yeah doesn't igf1lr3 have a systemic effect...basically it hits organs, unlike MGF. I know ppl on threads do Ig1r w/ MGF, well on a few threads. However, Like I said, don't want organ growth. If not, then I'd be in. I am guessing the timing would have to be good though.


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## Dcrazy (May 25, 2012)

blergs. said:


> if your not lookind to lose fat and want mass scratch it all and just get IGF1LR3 and go: wk1-8 50-100mcg ed.
> or even the above with this in there.



Thanks for the response.


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## Pittsburgh63 (May 25, 2012)

Dcrazy said:


> Yeah doesn't igf1lr3 have a systemic effect...basically it hits organs, unlike MGF. I know ppl on threads do Ig1r w/ MGF, well on a few threads. However, Like I said, don't want organ growth. If not, then I'd be in. I am guessing the timing would have to be good though.




Anything with a half life longer than 10-15 minutes will go systemic to some degree.. but yes, LR3 having such a long half life does have the potential to cause intestinal growth.  The intestines contains the most IGF receptors in your body.  You can minimize the potential by using a reasonable dose and cycled on 4-5 weeks and off for equal time.  I've used it for a little over a year that way with no visual issues with gut growth.  IGF Des have that same potential, as the half life is in minutes rather than hours.


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## chemical (May 28, 2012)

I saw an article that detailed a regimen that included MGF and IGF-1 LR3 on separate days due to stem cell proliferation while MGF is active. It stated that MGF would be active for several days.  I have even seen a regimen that included MGF only once a week and IGF on all other non-workout days.  The idea is that the introduction of IGF is a waste while MGF is working.  Ok, if you do not want to read the whole article, let me give you an idea.  He claims that MGF will cause stem cells to proliferate (divide and multiply).  During this division, IGF would be useless as new tissue cannot occur during this process.  However, the question is does everyone agree that 24,48 hours is the ideal time.  I know this is a little different as the op is asking about MGF and GHRP/GHRH, but still it is good information to consider as people have had issues getting a cumulative effect with MGF/IGF.  However, a separate dosing scheme has been successful.  What are your thoughts on this.  I am curious as to what Pitt thinks especially.

IGF-1 LR3 + Peg MGF cycle, when to dose?


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## TwisT (May 28, 2012)

First of all, saying IGF is "useless" before "stem cells have proliferated" is wrong, retarded, uneducated, and shows a complete lack of understanding of what happens at a biological level. Now that I have that off my chest

MGF is actually a variation of IGF, technically called IGF-1Ec. When tissue is damaged, the IGF gene is spliced, IGF-1Ec ("MGF") is what is left, while residual peptides are able to translate back into IGF. The MGF is *simply for activating satellite cells to begin the cell cycle, becoming simple myoblasts, nothing more. *A myoblast is ONLY A PRECURSUR CELL.Once these cells begin the cell cycle, IGF is actually *EXTREMELY IMPORTANT as MGF actually prevents cell differentiation. *This is where IGF comes into play, allowing further development of the cell and promoting differentiation







In a complete absence of IGF and a few other growth factors that I wont get into, the stem cells wouldn't develop into any useful and developed form of myocyte, and will simply dedifferentiate back into satellite cells in the endomysium. Also, IGF-1 Lr3 or DES used on workout days (preferably pre-workout) wont blunt any MGF release from the liver.

It is actually a VERY good idea to use both together, so we can "feed" the entire cell cycle so to speak.

Okay I'm done, tata


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## chemical (May 28, 2012)

Well, that is why I am asking.  He said that division is possible, but not new tissue growth.  Isn't that a little moronic.  The only way that would be possible, if I understand you correctly, is if a person had no igf-1 or even insulin?  I am a biochemistry major and learn as I go, not extremely deep in it, but a lot of things he said just didn't make sense.  With GH, new cell are produced unlike in AAS where the already present cells simply grow, correct?  So, if I understand you correctly after injury (training would be a form of this although not as bad as a wound) MGF signals the cell cycle to begin as satellite cells.  However, the process only proceeds til the myoblasts are produced, but no differentiating.  This is where the Igf takes over and differentiates the cell into the appropriate muscle fiber.  MGF alone would not allow for the cell to differentiate.  I think that is where the writer thought that MGF presence would halt use of the IGF, but Obviously you have set me straight.


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## chemical (May 28, 2012)

By the way thanks for the "twistaroni".  They have done me right always.


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## TwisT (May 28, 2012)

Very very simply, all you have to remember is that sex hormones, once bound to their receptor, simply call for a certain set of mRNA to be transcribed, thus "setting the stage" for whatever production of proteins is called for. There is a VERY wide range of different outcomes can come from this transcription process, depending on the hormone that is bound.



chemical said:


> Well, that is why I am asking.  He said that division is possible, but not new tissue growth.  Isn't that a little moronic.  The only way that would be possible, if I understand you correctly, is if a person had no igf-1 or even insulin?  I am a biochemistry major and learn as I go, not extremely deep in it, but a lot of things he said just didn't make sense.  With GH, new cell are produced unlike in AAS where the already present cells simply grow, correct?  So, if I understand you correctly after injury (training would be a form of this although not as bad as a wound) MGF signals the cell cycle to begin as satellite cells.  However, the process only proceeds til the myoblasts are produced, but no differentiating.  This is where the Igf takes over and differentiates the cell into the appropriate muscle fiber.  MGF alone would not allow for the cell to differentiate.  I think that is where the writer thought that MGF presence would halt use of the IGF, but Obviously you have set me straight.


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## Dcrazy (May 28, 2012)

chemical said:


> I saw an article that detailed a regimen that included MGF and IGF-1 LR3 on separate days due to stem cell proliferation while MGF is active. It stated that MGF would be active for several days.  I have even seen a regimen that included MGF only once a week and IGF on all other non-workout days.  The idea is that the introduction of IGF is a waste while MGF is working.  Ok, if you do not want to read the whole article, let me give you an idea.  He claims that MGF will cause stem cells to proliferate (divide and multiply).  During this division, IGF would be useless as new tissue cannot occur during this process.  However, the question is does everyone agree that 24,48 hours is the ideal time.  I know this is a little different as the op is asking about MGF and GHRP/GHRH, but still it is good information to consider as people have had issues getting a cumulative effect with MGF/IGF.  However, a separate dosing scheme has been successful.  What are your thoughts on this.  I am curious as to what Pitt thinks especially.
> 
> IGF-1 LR3 + Peg MGF cycle, when to dose?



Actually that's where I was going with the Igf-lr3...I didn't read the article, but that's where I was going when I replied. To create hyperplasia and let the new keep growing once it gets directed towards the muscle/skeletal system. Upon reading things, this idea is what first lead me to peptides( well seriously anyway ). It wouldn't be instant growth, but continued overall growth. Combine that with say cyp and you have a good enviroment anabolically. However, Idk what is what on that per say.


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## Pittsburgh63 (May 28, 2012)

chemical said:


> I saw an article that detailed a regimen that included MGF and IGF-1 LR3 on separate days due to stem cell proliferation while MGF is active. It stated that MGF would be active for several days.  I have even seen a regimen that included MGF only once a week and IGF on all other non-workout days.  The idea is that the introduction of IGF is a waste while MGF is working.  Ok, if you do not want to read the whole article, let me give you an idea.  He claims that MGF will cause stem cells to proliferate (divide and multiply).  During this division, IGF would be useless as new tissue cannot occur during this process.  However, the question is does everyone agree that 24,48 hours is the ideal time.  I know this is a little different as the op is asking about MGF and GHRP/GHRH, but still it is good information to consider as people have had issues getting a cumulative effect with MGF/IGF.  However, a separate dosing scheme has been successful.  What are your thoughts on this.  I am curious as to what Pitt thinks especially.
> 
> IGF-1 LR3 + Peg MGF cycle, when to dose?



I don't agree with a lot in this article.. Twist pointed out why.. If I were to stack peps pre and post workout it would look like this..

IGF DES Pre workout

Post workout
MGF - 15-20 minutes post workout
GHRP/GHRH - 15-20 minutes after MGF
IGF LR3 - 20+ minutes after GHRP/GHRH

Peg MGF used on Off days.

Even with this protocol, I would cycle the LR3 4-5 weeks on.. then equal time off.


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## Dcrazy (May 29, 2012)

blergs. said:


> And if your going for mass, might as welll get GHRP-6 it makes most extra hunger after dosing.



Yeah well I was thinking MGF, peg worked for dat...but it was specifically made, so. Not saying Peg wouldn't work, it seems MGF is better for muscle development. Far as igfs, i don't want to hit organs...atleast there needs to be more research on this stuff for me,so I can wait. I view it as an aid to muscle growth, so solid nice gains I'm okay with..aka not expecting to gain 8lbs in 6 weeks or somethin. However, i did look at ghrp 2, but as said it can raise cortisol levels a little higher..probably why you see some ppl with sleep disturbs as one pointed out. Really I though ghrp 6 was for more leanin out, maybe I misinterpreted that? However, already being on trt cyp( which needs corrected dosing )......What would one expect with that and MGF+ Ghrp 6?


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## Dcrazy (May 29, 2012)

Pittsburgh63 said:


> I don't agree with a lot in this article.. Twist pointed out why.. If I were to stack peps pre and post workout it would look like this..
> 
> IGF DES Pre workout
> 
> ...



Shouldn't MGF be used on non workout days as peg. Something with your own natural mgf and igf that would make it weak on training days? Also if my rat wanted to bilat shoot bi's/tri's....MGF 200mcg...that would be 50 per head on bis( inner/outter ) or just 100/100 into the bicep itself? Also same for tri's. I also wondered if ppl used the same needle for that day...if you go 50mcg 50 mcg bilat..inner/outer head of bi, you got 4 shots.


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## Pittsburgh63 (May 30, 2012)

Dcrazy said:


> Shouldn't MGF be used on non workout days as peg. Something with your own natural mgf and igf that would make it weak on training days? Also if my rat wanted to bilat shoot bi's/tri's....MGF 200mcg...that would be 50 per head on bis( inner/outter ) or just 100/100 into the bicep itself? Also same for tri's. I also wondered if ppl used the same needle for that day...if you go 50mcg 50 mcg bilat..inner/outer head of bi, you got 4 shots.



I Stack mine exactly as it's outlined above..  Bilat pinning.. you can use the same pin.  I personally load two though.  With MGF, I stick to one pin per side.. I've never liked multiple spot injections.  Especially not that "New" Peg MGF pinning scheme that's 25 pins per side or some shit like that.


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## blergs. (May 30, 2012)

Dcrazy said:


> Yeah doesn't igf1lr3 have a systemic effect...basically it hits organs, unlike MGF. I know ppl on threads do Ig1r w/ MGF, well on a few threads. However, Like I said, don't want organ growth. If not, then I'd be in. I am guessing the timing would have to be good though.



ALL OF IT will go systemic. the thing is it stays in system active longer. thats all.


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## blergs. (May 30, 2012)

Dcrazy said:


> Shouldn't MGF be used on non workout days as peg. Something with your own natural mgf and igf that would make it weak on training days? Also if my rat wanted to bilat shoot bi's/tri's....MGF 200mcg...that would be 50 per head on bis( inner/outter ) or just 100/100 into the bicep itself? Also same for tri's. I also wondered if ppl used the same needle for that day...if you go 50mcg 50 mcg bilat..inner/outer head of bi, you got 4 shots.



you body is putting it out RIGHT after workout for a reason.... do it ON workout days..


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## blergs. (May 30, 2012)

BYE all this IM shots I don't undertand. more scar tissue and hassle. I pin all of mind SubQ with no issue.
I will do IM for aas not peps.
just my op.


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## TwisT (May 31, 2012)

blergs. said:


> ALL OF IT will go systemic. the thing is it stays in system active longer. thats all.



Hormones can bind to a receptor the moment they are in the blood and have an affinity. They don't need to pass through the circ system before they bind (normally)


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## Dcrazy (Jun 1, 2012)

blergs. said:


> BYE all this IM shots I don't undertand. more scar tissue and hassle. I pin all of mind SubQ with no issue.
> I will do IM for aas not peps.
> just my op.



What peps are you researching? I think it depends, most from reading are sub q. However, MGF specifically is more for cite growth, not overall growth. Even though I guess one could argue that it does become systemic throughout the body after an IM. In all rationale, test is systemic even if you inject it to the bicep( which would hurt )... but I read ppl doing it. 

However, What kind of results would one see on MGF and GHRP 6? Recovery, relief from pain? Strength? Mass? Better sleep? I would like to hear all the above lol. However, as said, not looking for fat loss at this time and nothing that's gunna make organs grow...I'll let further researching get done. Oh I have tendonitis in the rotator, no tear( its getting better on its own )...but this might factor into a pep. Its probably a dislocated bicep tendon effecting things cause it wasnt a chronic thing, and it happened benching. Anyway, back to the MGF and GHRP 6...Now does 6 promote fat loss, that's my concern?


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## Dcrazy (Jun 1, 2012)

TwisT said:


> First of all, saying IGF is "useless" before "stem cells have proliferated" is wrong, retarded, uneducated, and shows a complete lack of understanding of what happens at a biological level. Now that I have that off my chest
> 
> MGF is actually a variation of IGF, technically called IGF-1Ec. When tissue is damaged, the IGF gene is spliced, IGF-1Ec ("MGF") is what is left, while residual peptides are able to translate back into IGF. The MGF is *simply for activating satellite cells to begin the cell cycle, becoming simple myoblasts, nothing more. *A myoblast is ONLY A PRECURSUR CELL.Once these cells begin the cell cycle, IGF is actually *EXTREMELY IMPORTANT as MGF actually prevents cell differentiation. *This is where IGF comes into play, allowing further development of the cell and promoting differentiation
> 
> ...



So your saying MGF by itself isn't all that far as muscle growth...I know that's not what you said directly. I say this because the cells wouldn't differ and just go back to what they were. So in a nutshell MGF is just good for recovery, but not directly muscle growth as most think?


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## Pittsburgh63 (Jun 1, 2012)

Dcrazy said:


> So your saying MGF by itself isn't all that far as muscle growth...I know that's not what you said directly. I say this because the cells wouldn't differ and just go back to what they were. So in a nutshell MGF is just good for recovery, but not directly muscle growth as most think?



The cells will differentiate when your body's natural IGF levels increase.  What you stated would only be true if endogenous IGF did not exist.


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## Dcrazy (Jun 1, 2012)

Pittsburgh63 said:


> The cells will differentiate when your body's natural IGF levels increase.  What you stated would only be true if endogenous IGF did not exist.



Ok..so one can really just depend on their own IGF to diff the body after MGF. Also, if you were to research GHRP 6 and MGF, what research results might one see. IDK if you ever research with ghrp 6 or not. Again, not looking for fat loss. More aid in muscle mass, recovery, and sleep. I would have asked ghrp 2, but rising cortisol levels could hinder sleep, or just over carb loading( ghrp 2 increasing hunger...) blunt gh pulse? I do understand the other poster saying Ig1-lr3, based on my goals lol. However, not into the gh organ growth. Again, i'd like to see further research with that being done, even on a 4 week cycle. Thanks. Also is the tape going up on MGF in lagging areas?


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## Dcrazy (Jun 12, 2012)

Dcrazy said:


> Ok..so one can really just depend on their own IGF to diff the body after MGF. Also, if you were to research GHRP 6 and MGF, what research results might one see. IDK if you ever research with ghrp 6 or not. Again, not looking for fat loss. More aid in muscle mass, recovery, and sleep. I would have asked ghrp 2, but rising cortisol levels could hinder sleep, or just over carb loading( ghrp 2 increasing hunger...) blunt gh pulse? I do understand the other poster saying Ig1-lr3, based on my goals lol. However, not into the gh organ growth. Again, i'd like to see further research with that being done, even on a 4 week cycle. Thanks. Also is the tape going up on MGF in lagging areas?



Bump...and oh yeah. If one did igf-lr3 moderate dose for 4 weeks, would that cause organ or G.I growth? Basically, you would think with proliferation and differation, all you have to do it is one time and let them grow over time via resistance training. Am I wrong?


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