# For the quickest and most efficient glycogen replacement...



## gopro (May 25, 2006)

...use Waxy Maize Starch!

Will move to cells about 70% faster than dextrose and bring all other supplements consumed at the same time (creatine, glutamine, BCAAs, etc) along with it, by increasing their absorption rates.

WMS accomplishes this because it has a far higher molecular weight and much lower osmolarity rate than either dextrose or maltodextrin. This allows it to basically bypass the stomach and be absorbed by the intestines for extremely rapid assimilation.

I have been using it for about 8 weeks now, and I absolutely love the stuff. 

**For any competitors out there, I also used WMS to carb load several of my clients for bodybuilding competitons recently, and the results have been outstanding!


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## jonner (May 25, 2006)

would you use somethin like this with m1ts?


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## sonofman (May 25, 2006)

Where could I purchase some WMS, Gopro


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## bench (May 26, 2006)

same here where can i buy some from?


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## Robboe (May 26, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> WMS accomplishes this because it has a far higher molecular weight and much lower osmolarity rate than either dextrose or maltodextrin. This allows it to basically bypass the stomach and be absorbed by the intestines for extremely rapid assimilation.



Help me understand here, i'm not being a dick, but how does it "bypass the stomach" and go straight to the intestines?


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## gopro (May 26, 2006)

Robboe said:
			
		

> Help me understand here, i'm not being a dick, but how does it "bypass the stomach" and go straight to the intestines?




WMS has a molecular weight which is about 100 times greater than maltodextrin and about 3000 times greater than dextrose. Due to its high molecular weight, WMS passes through the stomach very quickly. In doing so it acts like a pump, pulling water and nutrients along with it. In Fact, Pure WMS moves through the stomach 80% faster than dextrose and maltodextrin. 

I guess this better explains how it achieves such rapid assimilation. It does not "bypass" the stomach, but rather "passes through" incredibly quickly.


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## gopro (May 26, 2006)

Right now the only source is trueprotein.com. It is listed under carbohydrates there.

If you choose to purchase it, go ahead and use my code (BODYFX), and you will get 5% off your order.

This is basically where I get all my protein as well.


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## sonofman (May 26, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> Right now the only source is trueprotein.com. It is listed under carbohydrates there.
> 
> If you choose to purchase it, go ahead and use my code (BODYFX), and you will get 5% off your order.
> 
> This is basically where I get all my protein as well.



Thanks! You da man, GoPro.  Would you suggest WMS to your clients if they were cutting?  Just curious


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## bludevil (May 26, 2006)

Same question as above, if on a cutting cycle, do you recommend this for pwo, or stick with slow burning carbs to keep insulin spike down.


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## gopro (May 26, 2006)

sonofman said:
			
		

> Thanks! You da man, GoPro.  Would you suggest WMS to your clients if they were cutting?  Just curious



Cutting or bulking, I have my clients on WMS. Post workout your body is in a unique state whereby it is highly unlikely to store any fat from the calories you consume (unless you go ridiculously overboard). This is the time to take advantage and push as much nutrition into the muscle cells as possible, as quickly as possible, to reverse the catabolic action of training intensely.


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## topolo (May 26, 2006)




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## gopro (May 26, 2006)

And by the way...I have been combining my WMS with ALRI's Regeneration, and this is a very powerful combo!


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## Robboe (May 27, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> WMS has a molecular weight which is about 100 times greater than maltodextrin and about 3000 times greater than dextrose. Due to its high molecular weight, WMS passes through the stomach very quickly. In doing so it acts like a pump, pulling water and nutrients along with it. In Fact, Pure WMS moves through the stomach 80% faster than dextrose and maltodextrin.
> 
> I guess this better explains how it achieves such rapid assimilation. It does not "bypass" the stomach, but rather "passes through" incredibly quickly.



Ok, well that makes more sense. But as a polysaccharide it will still require digestion before it can move through the intestinal wall. Glucose/dextrose does not need digested at all because it is already in its simplest form, so how does WMS move through so much faster?

Do you have any relevant information on it? Google is not being friendly for me on this.


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## gopro (May 27, 2006)

Robboe said:
			
		

> Ok, well that makes more sense. But as a polysaccharide it will still require digestion before it can move through the intestinal wall. Glucose/dextrose does not need digested at all because it is already in its simplest form, so how does WMS move through so much faster?
> 
> Do you have any relevant information on it? Google is not being friendly for me on this.



This might provide relevant info for you...

http://www.vitargo.com/Engelsk/Vitargo/vetenskapl_st_eng.htm


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## Robboe (May 28, 2006)

Cool. But isn't Vitargo potato starch? (not corn starch like WMS).


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## gopro (May 28, 2006)

Robboe said:
			
		

> Cool. But isn't Vitargo potato starch? (not corn starch like WMS).



The original Vitargo was made from WMS. However, word is that they are switching over to using barley or potato because it is cheaper. However, it is also inferior.


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## Robboe (May 30, 2006)

Gotcha.

I thought it had always been potato starch (and patented).


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## gopro (May 31, 2006)

Robboe said:
			
		

> Gotcha.
> 
> I thought it had always been potato starch (and patented).



I guess the name Vitargo is patented or trademarked, but it does not mean another company can't sell pure WMS.


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## Robboe (May 31, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> I guess the name Vitargo is patented or trademarked, but it does not mean another company can't sell pure WMS.



Yeah but the link of info you gave me is for Vitargo (or at least on the vitargo site). I was under the impression the research on the link used potato starch, not WMS.


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## gopro (Jun 1, 2006)

Robboe said:
			
		

> Yeah but the link of info you gave me is for Vitargo (or at least on the vitargo site). I was under the impression the research on the link used potato starch, not WMS.



Ok, well, according to the label on Professional Supplements brand Vitargo, it claims to use WMS. So, I would assume that the research was done on WMS. However, IF it was potato starch, all I can say is that the same basically applies to WMS, with the latter being even better and more efficiently absorbed.


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## gopro (Jun 1, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> Ok, well, according to the label on Professional Supplements brand Vitargo, it claims to use WMS. So, I would assume that the research was done on WMS. However, IF it was potato starch, all I can say is that the same basically applies to WMS, with the latter being even better and more efficiently absorbed.



This is from the label of PS Pure Vitargo...

"Pure Vitargo® is a unique patented high molecular weight carbohydrate made from Swedish waxy maize starch. Pure Vitargo® is a long chain complex carbohydrate which acts far more favorably than dextrose & maltodextrin (the main ingredients in sports drinks today). Pure Vitargo® has a molecular weight which is about 100 times greater than maltodextrin and about 3000 times greater than dextrose. Due to its high molecular weight, Pure Vitargo® passes through the stomach very quickly. In doing so it acts like a pump, pulling water and nutrients along with it. In Fact, Pure Vitargo® moves through the stomach 80% faster than dextrose and maltodextrin. Dextrose also binds water from the body's reserves (small intestine, blood & muscles) and draws it into the stomach. This explains why so many dextrose users experience stomach discomfort or a bloated feeling. Pure Vitargo®, on the other hand, keeps you bloat-free and the muscles superhydrated."

And here is the study that THEY reference...

 References:
(1): a649.13,2001. K. Piehl Aulin, E. Hultman, European Journal of Applied Physiology, 81:346-351, 2000: Muscle glycogen resynthesis rate in humans after supplementation of drinks containing carbohydrates with low and high molecular masses (Vitargo®). J.B. Leiper, K. S??derlund, Department of Physiology and Pharmacology Karolinska Institute and Department of Sport and Health Sciences, Stockholm University, Sweden: Improved gastric emptying rate in humans of a unique carbohydrate polymer (Vitargo®) with gel forming properties.


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## Robboe (Jun 2, 2006)

Ok, fair is fair.


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## topolo (Jun 2, 2006)

Robboe said:
			
		

> Ok, fair is fair.



and foul is foul


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## scbz01602 (Jun 4, 2006)

How much would you recommend taking PWO?

I'm currently eating rice cakes after I lift, coupled with my protein shake. I do not have dextrose in the shake, just protein powder. Should I go with what they recommend, at nearly 60g's of that stuff?


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## gopro (Jun 5, 2006)

scbz01602 said:
			
		

> How much would you recommend taking PWO?
> 
> I'm currently eating rice cakes after I lift, coupled with my protein shake. I do not have dextrose in the shake, just protein powder. Should I go with what they recommend, at nearly 60g's of that stuff?



You can either switch to getting ALL of your PW carbs from WMS or you can split it between WMS and rice cakes. It is up to you, and depends on your bodyweight, training and goals in terms of just how mant PW carbs you take in.

For the past 5 weeks I have been taking in about 100 g carbs PW...80 g from WMS and 20 g from glucose (contained in ALRI Regeneration).


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## scbz01602 (Jun 5, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> You can either switch to getting ALL of your PW carbs from WMS or you can split it between WMS and rice cakes. It is up to you, and depends on your bodyweight, training and goals in terms of just how mant PW carbs you take in.
> 
> For the past 5 weeks I have been taking in about 100 g carbs PW...80 g from WMS and 20 g from glucose (contained in ALRI Regeneration).



Sounds good man, thanks for sharing this... I already ordered three tubs, anxiously awaiting arrival


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## gopro (Jun 5, 2006)

scbz01602 said:
			
		

> Sounds good man, thanks for sharing this... I already ordered three tubs, anxiously awaiting arrival



No problem. Just here to help bro!


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## sheadogg20 (Jun 5, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> No problem. Just here to help bro!





Thanks alot GP I for one have have gained alot of knowledge from reading your posts!


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## sonofman (Jun 6, 2006)

scbz01602 said:
			
		

> Sounds good man, thanks for sharing this... I already ordered three tubs, anxiously awaiting arrival



How many lbs is that?  Was it expensive?



			
				sheadogg20 said:
			
		

> Thanks alot GP I for one have have gained alot of knowledge from reading your posts!



Agreed!!


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## gopro (Jun 6, 2006)

sheadogg20 said:
			
		

> Thanks alot GP I for one have have gained alot of knowledge from reading your posts!



Thank you for the comment. I am truly glad that I have helped you.


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## 1Fast400 (Jun 6, 2006)

Most people don't train in a way to deplete glycogen stores.  I doubt most of the users of dextrose (or insert favorite carb name) do any sort of high rep circuit training.  I believe most people that are taking dextrose and other carbs are over doing it.

This assumes one is just after looks.  Not performance.  That is a whole different ball game.


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## gopro (Jun 6, 2006)

1Fast400 said:
			
		

> Most people don't train in a way to deplete glycogen stores.  I doubt most of the users of dextrose (or insert favorite carb name) do any sort of high rep circuit training.  I believe most people that are taking dextrose and other carbs are over doing it.
> 
> This assumes one is just after looks.  Not performance.  That is a whole different ball game.



Those that are training intensely with weights with the goal of getting bigger and stronger are effectively depleting glycogen stores, and are in need of high GI carbs after training to replace lost glycogen, suppress cortisol, and drive up insulin for its anabolic properties.


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## 1Fast400 (Jun 6, 2006)

> Those that are training intensely with weights with the goal of getting bigger and stronger are effectively depleting glycogen stores



Instensity is relative and is to vague.  One can train intensely, but not properly for glycogen depletion and it still won't change the fact they didn't deplete gylcogen.  

Take a track athlete.  One that trains for the 60 meters vs the 5k meter involves totally different methods of training.  Someone doing strength based moves, low rep/heavy weight training isn't going to gain much from the excessive sugar intake PWO.


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## gopro (Jun 6, 2006)

1Fast400 said:
			
		

> Instensity is relative and is to vague.  One can train intensely, but not properly for glycogen depletion and it still won't change the fact they didn't deplete gylcogen.
> 
> Take a track athlete.  One that trains for the 60 meters vs the 5k meter involves totally different methods of training.  Someone doing strength based moves, low rep/heavy weight training isn't going to gain much from the excessive sugar intake PWO.



Mike, I am not even going to argue with you about this. When and if you ever decide to pick up a weight and start seriously training yourself, we can talk. Or, after you have spent 15 years training bodybuilders and athletes 40-50 hours per week, in every facet of their programming (diet, workouts, supplementation, etc), we can discuss this.

However, until then...believe whatever you wish.


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## 1Fast400 (Jun 6, 2006)

I wasn't saying that your carb idea was bad.  Not at all.  I was SIMPLY stating that many people don't train in a gylcogen depleting way.  I think what you're talking about has great value for the person training in that fashion.  

Don't get so defensive simply because it is me that is saying something.


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## gopro (Jun 6, 2006)

1Fast400 said:
			
		

> I wasn't saying that your carb idea was bad.  Not at all.  I was SIMPLY stating that many people don't train in a gylcogen depleting way.  I think what you're talking about has great value for the person training in that fashion.
> 
> Don't get so defensive simply because it is me that is saying something.



Ok, fair enough. However, for those that train in a manner that is both effective, and "intense" enough, to induce the physiological mechanisms that are necessary for producing hypertrophy, high GI carbs are optimal post workout for many reasons.


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## 1Fast400 (Jun 6, 2006)

I won't even make fun of your not touching a weight comment.  You obviously haven't seen me in quite some time.  

I figure the next show we'd both be at would be the O.  See if you still think that when we meet.  Will you even be at a show?  You don't work for vpx anymore right?


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## gopro (Jun 6, 2006)

1Fast400 said:
			
		

> I won't even make fun of your not touching a weight comment.  You obviously haven't seen me in quite some time.
> 
> I figure the next show we'd both be at would be the O.  See if you still think that when we meet.  Will you even be at a show?  You don't work for vpx anymore right?



No, I have not seen you in some time. However, if you HAVE started training, then good for you! I applaud that! Especially if you have made some form of great transformation DRUG FREE. 

As for whether I will be at the Mr. O or not, I am still not sure. No, I do not work for VPX anymore, as I left them in Oct 2005. However, if I AM there, it will be with ALRI, in support of the book that Author L Rea and I recently wrote together.


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## Robboe (Jun 8, 2006)

What book, Eric?


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## gopro (Jun 8, 2006)

Robboe said:
			
		

> What book, Eric?



http://www.anabolicbeast.com/


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## sheadogg20 (Jun 8, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> http://www.anabolicbeast.com/


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## scbz01602 (Jun 10, 2006)

Well, I'd like to post my taste bud results as my first serving of Waxy Maize Starch was taken today PWO!

All in all, I really liked it. I was expecting some clumpage, but clumpage there was not! Even after around 10 or so minutes of sipping(no shaking), still no clumps, which I really thought would be the downside of using this.
Another suprise to me: It made the shake more enjoyable. My personal preference is thicker protein shakes.... not really into watery shakes at the slightest. But often to compensate with the gritty texture of whey powder with a smaller amount of water, I'll just dump more water in. With this, it made the shake signifigantly thicker; like a milk shake. And of course, it's tasteless, so it worked out as a win/win situation.

It's relatively expensive per serving, but it's around 2 dollars a week if used only in PWO shakes (on a 4-day split program), which is definetly affordable.

+1 for Waxy Maize Starch (and it took a lot to get me away from my RICE CAKES!.... which I still have just in lesser amounts hah)


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## gopro (Jun 10, 2006)

scbz01602 said:
			
		

> Well, I'd like to post my taste bud results as my first serving of Waxy Maize Starch was taken today PWO!
> 
> All in all, I really liked it. I was expecting some clumpage, but clumpage there was not! Even after around 10 or so minutes of sipping(no shaking), still no clumps, which I really thought would be the downside of using this.
> Another suprise to me: It made the shake more enjoyable. My personal preference is thicker protein shakes.... not really into watery shakes at the slightest. But often to compensate with the gritty texture of whey powder with a smaller amount of water, I'll just dump more water in. With this, it made the shake signifigantly thicker; like a milk shake. And of course, it's tasteless, so it worked out as a win/win situation.
> ...


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## pengers84 (Jun 14, 2006)

What about using it pre workout? would that be beneficial as it speeds up supplement utilisation?


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## sonofman (Jun 15, 2006)

I just made an order.  They asked for a payment method but not my info.  Strange  The site says my order is in progress.  Did this happen to anyone else?


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## gopro (Jun 15, 2006)

sonofman said:
			
		

> I just made an order.  They asked for a payment method but not my info.  Strange  The site says my order is in progress.  Did this happen to anyone else?



That is weird...I would shoot them a quick email.


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## gopro (Jun 15, 2006)

pengers84 said:
			
		

> What about using it pre workout? would that be beneficial as it speeds up supplement utilisation?



If you are in a bulking/gaining phase, then yes, you could use 20-40 g of WMS preworkout along with your supplements.

However, if you are in a cutting phase, I would only use it postworkout.


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## sonofman (Jun 15, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> That is weird...I would shoot them a quick email.



I did hours ago they haven't contacted me, but then again there on the West Coast.


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## gopro (Jun 15, 2006)

sonofman said:
			
		

> I did hours ago they haven't contacted me, but then again there on the West Coast.



Well, they are a very solid and trustworthy company, I can tell you that.


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## sonofman (Jun 23, 2006)

I received my 3 lbs today(It took a week, but I feel as though it will be worth it).  Man, that stuff can get everywhere.  I agreed with everything scbz01602 said in his review.  *Thanks again GoPro & scbz01602*


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## gopro (Jun 24, 2006)

sonofman said:
			
		

> I received my 3 lbs today(It took a week, but I feel as though it will be worth it).  Man, that stuff can get everywhere.  I agreed with everything scbz01602 said in his review.  *Thanks again GoPro & scbz01602*



You are welcome! I sincerely hope that it helps you with your progress!

Love that P/RR/S Soldier monicker!!


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## Martinogdenbsx (Jun 28, 2006)

where it says add to cart 1,2,3,4,5,6, is that the number of lbs????

What would you say was the best protein source there and pre workout carbs

Also which casein protein would you recommend,think i may order all my supplement needs from here

Thanks


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## gopro (Jun 29, 2006)

Martinogdenbsx said:
			
		

> where it says add to cart 1,2,3,4,5,6, is that the number of lbs????
> 
> What would you say was the best protein source there and pre workout carbs
> 
> ...



Yes that is the # of lbs.

Best protein source? Depends on for what. For whey, I would go with microfiltered isolate.

For casein, nothing better than micellar casein.


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## Martinogdenbsx (Jun 29, 2006)

cheers go pro

pm sent


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## Martinogdenbsx (Jun 29, 2006)

it's 100 pounds shipping charges to my adress here in the UK for 26lbs of protein and carbs

thats a bit above my budget


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## gopro (Jun 29, 2006)

Martinogdenbsx said:
			
		

> it's 100 pounds shipping charges to my adress here in the UK for 26lbs of protein and carbs
> 
> thats a bit above my budget



Well, unfortunately with where you live, it is bound to be extremely expensive to ship!


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## juggernaut (Jun 30, 2006)

but what about those who believe that oats, fruit, yogurt and whey are better solution?


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## gopro (Jul 1, 2006)

juggernaut said:
			
		

> but what about those who believe that oats, fruit, yogurt and whey are better solution?



Better solution to what? Slowing down your progress, LOL?


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## juggernaut (Jul 1, 2006)




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## MCx2 (Apr 19, 2007)

Anyone using this stuff or what? I'm curious.


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## nni (Apr 19, 2007)

hydrolyzed rice syrup is another nice option.

i am still a fan for a blend of fast/slow for strength training post workout.


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