# PH's and Hair Loss



## Var (Jan 5, 2004)

Just curious about how many here have experienced hair loss when using prohormones/prosteroids, and to what degree.


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## ZECH (Jan 5, 2004)

GP, Tank and Albob have NO hair! Of course I don't think you can totally blame it on PH use.


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## Var (Jan 5, 2004)

hahaha...not good.  I noticed some slight thinning (I could be imagining it), but nothing too bad.  Wondering how common it really is.  Anyone know if there's any truth to the thing about men taking after the mothers side of the family???


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 5, 2004)

That is an old wives tale about your moms side of the family.  I experienced some hair loss from my m1t cycle, I believe, but nothing substantial.  A buddy of mine shed like a bitch on mag 10 so he stopped it immediately.  His scalp was getting all itchy and inflammed and then the hair started to fall out


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## Var (Jan 5, 2004)

Any truth to the idea that hairloss will stop as soon as u go off the cycle?  Or does it continue on once the gene is activated?


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 5, 2004)

Well, the gene does not get activated by the androgen, the gene is activated independently of that.  People who do not experience hair loss have one of 2 things going on.  Either they do not have the gene, or it is activated and their is not enough androgen (Usually DHT) to cause the hair to fall out.  I would have to say that you have a good chance that the hair will grow back, assuming you didn't have bad timing and take the supps right as the gene was getting activated, assuming that it is the supps causing the problem.


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## Tkarrde (Jan 5, 2004)

> _*I would have to say that you have a good chance that the hair will grow back, assuming you didn't have bad timing and take the supps right as the gene was getting activated, assuming that it is the supps causing the problem. *_


_*

Hair loss from androgen use is generally permanent. Androgen-induced hair loss should come to a halt once the compound(s) are discontinued, however.

Also, *most* users who have experienced hair loss do not begin to do so until 2 or 3 weeks into a cycle, making it a good idea for those concerned about this to cycle 2on/2off (coupled with the use of preventative treatments, such as topical Spiro cream and Nizoral shampoo).*_


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## Var (Jan 5, 2004)

Good to know.  Thanks for the info.  Do you know if all the DHT blocking shampoos are prescription?  I've read some good feedback on them...sounds very effective.  Guess I'm a little paranoid about the hairloss thing.  I'm already short.  Being short and bald just wont do.


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## bandaidwoman (Jan 5, 2004)

Regarding genetics of male pattern baldness.


First of all , male pattern baldness, the most common cause of nonscarring alopecia (baldness) is inherited in a *polygenic fashion* or a trait inherited by *either or both of the parents.* It may be a sex limited due to incomplete expression and penetrance but not X linked inheritance like color blindness. Male pattern baldness is a classic example of how inheritance pattern for something as simple as balding cannot be explained by pure Mendelian genetics .  We now know it can be  inherited from *both* parents and can have incomplete penetrance thus, have varying levels of expression in the person who carries the gene. Ie: you can have the gene, but you don't go bald or you can look like Yule Brennor. 

The hormonal environment has to be right therefore, men express it early due to high levels of testosterone and byproduct hormones. Women can express it early if they have untreated congential adrenal hyperplasia (where the adrenal glands overproduce male hormones) and carry the gene or a ovarian tumor that produces testosterone. The latter women are lucky to have the balding gene, since this is how the docs find out a young woman has an ovarian cancer (she startes balding at 30). The hormonal mileu of the women approaches that of men after menapause (higher ratio of testosterone to estrogen) (Remember, our adrenal glands continue to make testosterone until death) so some women who carry the gene will start expressing it then. Also overactive or underactive thyroid can cause hair loss.

Intersting there is a racial preferrance. Androgenic alopecia is responsible for male pattern baldness in fifty percent of white men and women over 40 but the percentage is less in asians, blacks and lastly, American Indians. So the idea of coinheritance (say a racial gene inherited with the balding gene ) may also be important. 


Some people may not have the gene and still have age related miniaturization of the hair follicles and it can look like incomplete balding.  These people probably won't respond to Propecia (a 5-alpha reducatse inhibitor) but might respond to Rogaine (don't really know the mechanism of action of the latter). 




Most of all, remember, we have yet to isolate the specific gene or set of genes exclusively responsible for male pattern baldness!!!!

As for prohormones causing male pattern baldness...some more than others depending on where in the steroid cycle they appear.  If you want to slow down the progression of baldness, stop the prohormones, but I suspect it has uncovered or accellerated your genetic propensity for baldness later in life.  

If guys want to minimize their chance of going bald, you can get castrated (thus stopping the major source of testosterone production) but don't forget, you have to rip out your adrenal glands too.


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Tkarrde *_
> Hair loss from androgen use is generally permanent. Androgen-induced hair loss should come to a halt once the compound(s) are discontinued, however.
> 
> Also, *most* users who have experienced hair loss do not begin to do so until 2 or 3 weeks into a cycle, making it a good idea for those concerned about this to cycle 2on/2off (coupled with the use of preventative treatments, such as topical Spiro cream and Nizoral shampoo).




Let me rephrase my answer.  If the follicle is dead, it is dead, there will be no more hair coming from it.  There is quite a debate up as to whether a hair goes from terminal (regular) to vellus (pigmentless and short) in one phase of hair growth cycle.  IMO, unless we are talking a ton of androgens, you will take a few cycles to completely kill off a follicle.  If your hair is just thinning as a result of the androgen you used, within 1 to 2 cycles it should go back normal.

Also, you generally won't notice hair loss until the 2 or 3 week mark like Tkkarde stated, but this does not mean you are out of the water with 2 weeks cycles.  The condition of your hair now is a reflection on things that have affected it in the past.  What this means is that just because you don't notice your hair thinning now does not mean that you are clear from hair loss from an androgen you have been taking.  Once an androgen attaches to the follicle and generates an immune response, it could take up to a month for it to fall out as a result.  So while 2 week cycles are good in that only a small amount of androgen attaches to the follice which will probably result in thinning rather than complete loss, going 2 weeks on/2weeks off continuously will most certainly lead to a lot less coverage on top.

Also, spiro and nizoral are good choices, both of which you can get without a prescription.  You can get 1% nizoral at pretty much any supermarket, you can get spiro online at a  bunch of places.

By the way, androgens are just one of many factors that lead to hair loss.  Keeping your scalp healthy is just as important and diet is up there too.

Edit:  I must also point out, since the scientists that are getting paid to research this are not 100% sure as to the exact cause of hair loss, this is all in theory.


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## Tkarrde (Jan 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Dale MabrySo while 2 week cycles are good in that only a small amount of androgen attaches to the follice which will probably result in thinning rather than complete loss, going 2 weeks on/2weeks off continuously will most certainly lead to a lot less coverage on top.
> *_


_*

Good point*_


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## Var (Jan 5, 2004)

Great info!  Thanks guys!


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 5, 2004)

Hey Tk, weren't you looking at developing a supp for this very purpose?  I thought I read that on avant?


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## Tkarrde (Jan 5, 2004)

Yes, we are. That is not our primary focus at the moment, but remains something we are interested in.


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 5, 2004)

The findings on GLA are quite promising for a topical.


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