# peroneus brevis muscle isolation help!



## dumbdumbdinkel3 (Nov 14, 2006)

i have a test on thursday for muscle isolation techniques. there are a total of 22 different muscles and for each i need three exercises.  but i am having a little bit of difficulty coming up with 3 decent exercises to isolate the peroneus brevis. any trainers out there that could help, please do!

one thought was using one of those stretch band things and tying it off to something and the foot. eversion of the foot and having the foot slightly plantarflexed during the exercise.


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## P-funk (Nov 14, 2006)

the stretch band thing, doing eversion of the foot could work.  Since the peroneals are involved with pronation of the foot you could try things like external rotation (sometimes called abduction, depending on the text you are refering to) with band, since the peroneals also help to abduct the subtalar and transeverse tarsal joints (abduction is also a component of evernsion or pronation).  The peroneals are also plantar flexors....but, I can't think of a way that you would isolate them in that movement.


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## P-funk (Nov 14, 2006)

what is the test for anyway?


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## dumbdumbdinkel3 (Nov 14, 2006)

im taking the course offered by ACE at a local college before i take the certification exam


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## P-funk (Nov 14, 2006)

and they are asking that?

You never _really_ isolate anything.


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## dumbdumbdinkel3 (Nov 14, 2006)

yeah its really hard to isolate it in 3 different exercises so im not to worried about completely isolating it. i guess an inverted toe postion doing calf raises will put more emphasis on it.


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## dumbdumbdinkel3 (Nov 14, 2006)

well to the absolute most i can.. for example the professor dosent want us to use bench as a tricep exercise, and she dosent want straight calf raises for the peroneus brevis either.


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 14, 2006)

dumbdumbdinkel3 said:


> im taking the course offered by ACE at a local college before i take the certification exam



What class is it, how to hurt somebody bad through isolation.


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## P-funk (Nov 14, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:


> What class is it, how to hurt somebody bad through isolation.



lol.

ask the instructor if she has ever trained anyone.


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## slip (Nov 14, 2006)

Guys you do have to remember that they are trying to teach people.  If I can come up with an "isolation" exercise for most muscles, then that would demonstrate a knowledge of their position, attachment, origin, and function.  And who knows, maybe some isolation work would be needed for some sort of  client rehab in the future.

They could ask - Name 3 possible technique flaws while performing the following exercises .... a. b. c etc.  It's not about using poor technique, but knowing what poor technique is.


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## P-funk (Nov 14, 2006)

slip said:


> Guys you do have to remember that they are trying to teach people.  If I can come up with an "isolation" exercise for most muscles, then that would demonstrate a knowledge of their position, attachment, origin, and function.  And who knows, maybe some isolation work would be needed for some sort of  client rehab in the future.
> 
> They could ask - Name 3 possible technique flaws while performing the following exercises .... a. b. c etc.  It's not about using poor technique, but knowing what poor technique is.



the problem is that they are teaching it WRONG.

It is very difficult to isolate anything in the human body.  Everything is connected and it is very easy to see how one movement affects another and so on and so forth.

What the shouldn't be doing is asking for exercises that isolate certain muscle groups.  A better idea would be to ask for exercises and discuss how different muscles are affected by the movememt (agonsits, antagonists, synergists, stabilizers) as this will not only teach you about human movenet, muscle origin and insertion but also, how muscles work together during various tasks to produce force, reduce force and stabilize forces around a joint.


Poor education breeds poor trainers.  Poor trainers make this industry look like shit.


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## CowPimp (Nov 14, 2006)

P-funk said:


> Poor education breeds poor trainers.  Poor trainers make this industry look like shit.



Oh man, poor trainers are a dime a dozen.  I don't consider myself to be some amazing trainer, but when I see some of the shit people do it makes me want to laugh, or maybe even cry.


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## goandykid (Nov 14, 2006)

Good luck on your test.


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## dumbdumbdinkel3 (Nov 15, 2006)

P-funk said:


> What the shouldn't be doing is asking for exercises that isolate certain muscle groups.  A better idea would be to ask for exercises and discuss how different muscles are affected by the movememt (agonsits, antagonists, synergists, stabilizers) as this will not only teach you about human movenet, muscle origin and insertion but also, how muscles work together during various tasks to produce force, reduce force and stabilize forces around a joint.



actually by creating exercises for muscle such as this one we are taught about muscle origin, insertion, and all the other good stuff...if it were not for the knowledge of this i wouldnt be able to create good exercises. and the second part to the test is written so and on it we do have to know all that shit.


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## P-funk (Nov 15, 2006)

dumbdumbdinkel3 said:


> actually by creating exercises for muscle such as this one we are taught about muscle origin, insertion, and all the other good stuff...if it were not for the knowledge of this i wouldnt be able to create good exercises. and the second part to the test is written so and on it we do have to know all that shit.



but what I am saying is that they are only teaching you one function.

For example....what is the function of the peroneals?  the muscles in question here....


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## dumbdumbdinkel3 (Nov 15, 2006)

P-funk said:


> but what I am saying is that they are only teaching you one function.
> 
> For example....what is the function of the peroneals?  the muscles in question here....




true. maybe it will come up further in our course. if not? who cares, not like im just going to jump right into the whole personal training this right away anyways, im going to sit back for a while and keep learning new things.


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## P-funk (Nov 15, 2006)

dumbdumbdinkel3 said:


> true. maybe it will come up further in our course. if not? who cares, not like im just going to jump right into the whole personal training this right away anyways, im going to sit back for a while and keep learning new things.



Oh, I think sitting back and learning is great!  And maybe it will come in a future course...but should it?  Shouldn't the anatomy of the muscles be taught in full the first time around?  Why wait to see what the peroneals do on the entire specturm of muscle function?

I am all for education and learning as much as possible.  All I am saying is that these classes need to be more comprehensive if we are going to ever make this industry move forward and get it some credibility.  Right now it is a complete joke.


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## PWGriffin (Nov 15, 2006)

P-funk said:


> I am all for education and learning as much as possible.  All I am saying is that these classes need to be more comprehensive if we are going to ever make this industry move forward and get it some credibility.  Right now it is a complete joke.



Unless the government takes action, it will always be a joke.  

The certification industry is a money making one.  ISSA charges a fuck ton of money and it is EASY to complete..hmmm


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## slip (Nov 16, 2006)

P-funk said:


> the problem is that they are teaching it WRONG.
> 
> A better idea would be to ask for exercises and discuss how different muscles are affected by the movememt (agonsits, antagonists, synergists, stabilizers) as this will not only teach you about human movenet, muscle origin and insertion but also, how muscles work together during various tasks to produce force, reduce force and stabilize forces around a joint.



True, but most people in my course had enough trouble remembering, or spelling the names of the muscles.  Let along knowing insertions and origins etc.  Education does have to be gradual.  Take maths for example, you start basic, with building blocks, then you get more advanced and build on the basics. 

with the ease of certification (and its the same here in australia, (8wk/$5000 course = fully qualified) the thing is, 90% of my clients are weight loss in a gym environment and honestly, there is nothing i learned in my course that has helped me in training these people to lose weight.  they can afford to just pump trainers out for the mass market and have minimal problems in the end. Im not saying its right, or a good system to have, but thats how it is over here.


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## CowPimp (Nov 16, 2006)

slip said:


> True, but most people in my course had enough trouble remembering, or spelling the names of the muscles.  Let along knowing insertions and origins etc.  Education does have to be gradual.  Take maths for example, you start basic, with building blocks, then you get more advanced and build on the basics.
> 
> with the ease of certification (and its the same here in australia, (8wk/$5000 course = fully qualified) the thing is, 90% of my clients are weight loss in a gym environment and honestly, there is nothing i learned in my course that has helped me in training these people to lose weight.  they can afford to just pump trainers out for the mass market and have minimal problems in the end. Im not saying its right, or a good system to have, but thats how it is over here.



Of course everyone is out there to lose weight, but that's easy.  You don't need a trainer for that.  Get your fat ass on a treadmill 5 days a week, stop drinking soda, eat more fruits and vegetables, and reduce your portions.  Voila, you have some weightloss.

The key is to help them lose weight and correct movement dysfunction at the same time, which will help prevent injuries in the future.  You also don't want to exacerbate any existing orthopedic issues or improper motor patterns while you train them.  I can't tell you how many times I've seen trainers with a client who has a gross display of upper cross syndrome and internally rotated humeri, yet I see them press and press and press, with the occasional row thrown in for what they think is "good measure."


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## slip (Nov 16, 2006)

I had a physio tell me my lats were tonic causing medial rotation of the humerus and to stop doing chin ups.  This is why thoracic kyphosis, forward shoulders as well.  I may be wrong but totally disagree with him.  But that's off topic.

Totally agree with you on that.  I'm constantly making people do much lighter weights and trying to fix posture and weak points, but then I see other trainers doing bench but no row for skinny kyphotic guys with majorly forward head position.  argh.

If the courses were tighter on marking and standards, instead of just pumping crap PT's out for money, the industry would be 100x better, with less competition and dropout rate.


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## P-funk (Nov 16, 2006)

the lats are internal rotators of the shoulder.  If they are tight they can change the position of the hummerus within the joint.


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## CowPimp (Nov 16, 2006)

Yeah, I wish certification standards were a bit more rigorous too.  Along with that they could also pay personal trainers more money, heh.  The cut that a lot of us get is pretty shitty.


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## slip (Nov 17, 2006)

yeah, that was my understanding P-Funk.  he didnt even test my lats for flexibility (and they are fine).  upped the workload on back and has made improvements.  even those with major traning get it wrong sometimes.


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## P-funk (Nov 17, 2006)

slip said:


> yeah, that was my understanding P-Funk.  he didnt even test my lats for flexibility (and they are fine).  upped the workload on back and has made improvements.  even those with major traning get it wrong sometimes.



He may have just made a general statement, saying that...Because you are internally rotated your lats HAVE TO BE tight.


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## slip (Nov 17, 2006)

you dont think thoracic kyphosis with forward head and shoulders can do it? with that posture it occurs in me, but when i straighten up the internal rotation dissapears.


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## P-funk (Nov 18, 2006)

slip said:


> you dont think thoracic kyphosis with forward head and shoulders can do it? with that posture it occurs in me, but when i straighten up the internal rotation dissapears.



could be.  I am just saying that the teacher was probably being very general and not specifc.


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## slip (Nov 18, 2006)

ah.  fair point.


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