# no carb days



## jimm (Jul 4, 2012)

hi,


Im about 190lb 5'8 right now in ive been told i am in 10-12 to low teens% bf range abs are visable ect few people have told me im deffiantly in this range any way ive just started carb cycling for the first time ever.My goal is to get down to about 6% bf 

im doing... pretty much high carb day followed my low carb followed by no carb days..


Im on a NO carb day today and my diet has consisted of tuna, eggs , protein shakes and lean mince (which im eating now and are  very nice ) 


im eating mince now this is my pre workout meal but ive thrown in some coliflour and a very small amount of white potatoe only a tiny bit is this ok or is no carb no carb i feel so hungry with no carbs!! im a ecto naturally and im training my chicken legs today and was worried my legs might snap with 50lb squats with no carbs...


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## dsc123 (Jul 4, 2012)

I'm currently also carb cycling, i have one day high carb which is best to be on the day when you train a large muscle group like legs. 3 medium carb days on my other training days. And then 3 low carb days (non training days) in which i only get my carbs from veg.

why don't you adjust your training so that you are hitting large muscle groups on your high carb days?


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## jimm (Jul 5, 2012)

dsc123 said:


> I'm currently also carb cycling, i have one day high carb which is best to be on the day when you train a large muscle group like legs. 3 medium carb days on my other training days. And then 3 low carb days (non training days) in which i only get my carbs from veg.
> 
> why don't you adjust your training so that you are hitting large muscle groups on your high carb days?




im just getting to grips with this carb cycling thing only just started doing it. I understand theres lots of ways of doing it but im just going to do high,med,low a day at a time see how that works for me..so its going to overlap with what body parts i will train..

thanks for the info on veg


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## charley (Jul 5, 2012)

Jim, Protein shakes have carbs as well as white potato's........


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## jimm (Jul 6, 2012)

^^^ i know bro its SOOO hard to not get any in atall im going to have a meeting with a bb nutritioalist in 2 weeks hopefully he can give me a hand with this shit... oh and by the way i know potatoes are full of carbs ha  figured because im ecto and was training legs i could have a few mouth fulls of the potatoe with my lean mince i only had a teeny bit honest


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## lee111s (Jul 6, 2012)

Carb nite!


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## AugustWest (Jul 6, 2012)

charley said:


> Jim, Protein shakes have carbs as well as white potato's........



Only if hes buying those pre-made shakes.   Whey/Casein mixed w/water (my protein shake)  has no more carbs than are in the protein which is zero.

Its really not as hard as your making it out to be.

Create your high carb day to what calorie amount you want to eat. 50% carbs, 30% protein 20% fat. I mean measure everything, weigh everything so its perfect.

Then once you get that hammered out for your medium day literally just cut all your fibrous carb sources in half. (potato, bread, rice etc)

Then for your low carb day (i say low b/c there should never be NO carb days) cut out all your fibrous carbs and fruits and add in more veggies. Its ok to get carbs on this day, just as long as they are in the form of non-starchy vegetables. Increase healthy fats and protein sources to keep up at 2000 cals (when i dropped my starchy carbs my cals drop below 1800 which is not what i wanted)

Heres my template:

High Day

1: 2 whole eggs, 3 egg whites, 1.25 cups oatmeal

2: PWO shake  1.5 scoops dextrose, 2 scoops whey

3: 6oz chicken breast, 1.25 cup brown/wild rice, green salad with 1/2 avocado and 1 teasp olive oil

4: 2 slices hearty whole grain bread with 6oz tuna, apple

5: 1.5 cups whole milk w/ 1 scoop whey and 1tblspoon natural peanut butter, banana

6: 6oz chicken breast, 1 baked sweet potato, 2 cups broccoli

Medium-

1: 2 whole eggs, 3 egg whites, .75 cups oatmeal

2: PWO shake  1.5 scoops dextrose, 2 scoops whey

3: 6oz chicken breast, .75 cup brown/wild rice, green salad with 1/2 avocado and 1 teasp olive oil

4: 1 slice hearty whole grain bread with 6oz tuna, apple

5: 1 cup whole milk w/ 1 scoop whey and 1tblspoon natural peanut butter, banana

6: 6oz chicken breast, 1/2 baked sweet potato, 2 cups broccoli

Low

1: 2 whole eggs, 3 egg whites, 1/2 tblsp butter, 1/4 cup low fat cheddar

2: PWO shake  1.5 scoops dextrose, 2 scoops whey

3: 8 oz red meat,  green salad with whole avocado and 1 tblsp low fat ranch

4: 8 oz tuna, 2 tblsp nat peanut butter on celery

5: 1 cups whole milk w/ 1.5 scoop whey and 1tblspoon natural peanut butter

6: 6oz lean meat, large plate of assorted steamed veggies, 1 cup greek yogurt

obviously foods change. i try to keep lift days on high or medium carb days, on low carb days i up the fat and protein and choose more fatty sources of protein. i also never drop the dextrose, i keep it in to replenish muscle glycogen and prevent catabolism on a low calorie/carb diet. dropped 42 lbs like this, this passed winter.

P.S. keep healthy nuts like, almonds, peanuts, cashews, walnuts on hand to snack on if you get cravings, and greek yogurt as well

P.P.S-  YOU CAN DOOO IIIIIIIITT


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## sassy69 (Jul 6, 2012)

Right. If you're an ecto, then you don't need to keep the calories low. You can do a lot w/ simple macro cycling. On those low carb days, how much fat are you getting in?


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## jimm (Jul 7, 2012)

im keeping my protein and fat intake consistent.. its just the carbs i am playing with^^


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## sassy69 (Jul 7, 2012)

jimm said:


> im keeping my protein and fat intake consistent.. its just the carbs i am playing with^^



Right, but how many total cals does that leave you with on "no carb" day?


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## jimm (Jul 8, 2012)

sassy69 said:


> Right, but how many total cals does that leave you with on "no carb" day?



well i know its going to be under my maintenence because im hitting around 3500cal a day but on no carb days it will obviously be lower because i get alot of my calories from carbs now! i will find the exact figure tomoro thats a no carbs il have a look at my macros for that day...

i try to add in some extra healthy fats for more cals on my no carb days..is this a good idea?

also i obviously eat a bit more lean meats ect to help me feel full up.. i feel hungry all day on no carb days.


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## lee111s (Jul 8, 2012)

Eat more fats. 

On no carb days I'm eating around 140g of fat. Fat is super satiating as it digests really slowly!


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## sassy69 (Jul 8, 2012)

^^ This. If you're an ecto, starving yourself just because its low carb day isn't necessarily going to win you points w/ your metabolism. I'd rather suggest, as above, on the days you drop calories from carbs, replace them w/ same calories in fats. If you are starving all day on low carb day, that's not really making your daily life any easier either. I'm NOT an ecto and I've successfully dieted down to sub 7% on a constant calorie / fat-carb rotation exactly as I've described, and other than the first day I ever did a low carb day on the diet, I had nearly no issues w/ 'being hungry all day'. I also managed to hit the gym every day and increase to a total of 2 hrs of cardio / day before my show.


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## jimm (Jul 8, 2012)

hey thanks guys i was unsure about using healthy fats as a sustitute for calories on no carb days.. i wasnt sure if it was bad for me to get too much fat..

thanks for the help guys


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## lee111s (Jul 9, 2012)

I stick with animal fats to be honest. Butter, bacon, ground beef, burgers etc! Saturated fats aren't bad as they're made out to be. Check out Carb Nite and Carb backloading by Keifer. Some amazing studies have been done and since I've adopted his methods for myself, my training and physique have never been better!

With carb back loading you can actually gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. I normally wouldn't believe such BS but since I tried it, and it worked as it has for many, I can't recommend it enough!


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## rage racing (Jul 9, 2012)

I eat alot of peanut butter on my no carb day to offset the calorie difference.


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## jimm (Jul 9, 2012)

lee111s said:


> I stick with animal fats to be honest. Butter, bacon, ground beef, burgers etc! Saturated fats aren't bad as they're made out to be. Check out Carb Nite and Carb backloading by Keifer. Some amazing studies have been done and since I've adopted his methods for myself, my training and physique have never been better!
> 
> With carb back loading you can actually gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. I normally wouldn't believe such BS but since I tried it, and it worked as it has for many, I can't recommend it enough!




thanks man i will check it out! ive just been doing a high/low/none routine then refeed and repeat feel leaner already only been 2 weeks lol 

im just struggling a bit with the no carb days and keeping the calories up but now i know its ok to have a bit of extra fat on them days its going to be abit easier...


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## jimm (Jul 9, 2012)

ok to have salads on no carb days to make food a little less dry i can just see me at work wit a tub full of plain chicken plain burgers and boiled eggs yum! 

need something to make it a litte less dry any suggestions?


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## lee111s (Jul 9, 2012)

Butter, oil (especially coconut oil - the MCT's in it are actually benficial for fat loss)

Kiefer's methods are awesome and based on so much scientific studies with evidence. He has 2 plans...carb nite is aimed at fat loss and muscle preservation while carb backloading aims at building musle weithout fat loss, amazed that it works so well! 

I'm doing the carb nite now, trying to get as lean as I can for holiday in 4 weeks. My BMR is 1800kcal...I've been eating close to 2500 a day from fat and protein and lost fat. It's like voodoo shit! Haha


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## sassy69 (Jul 9, 2012)

jimm said:


> thanks man i will check it out! ive just been doing a high/low/none routine then refeed and repeat feel leaner already only been 2 weeks lol
> 
> im just struggling a bit with the no carb days and keeping the calories up but now i know its ok to have a bit of extra fat on them days its going to be abit easier...



What's the difference between "high" day and "refeed"?


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## jimm (Jul 10, 2012)

sassy69 said:


> What's the difference between "high" day and "refeed"?




to me a refeed IS the high carb day after a no carb day i worded it wrong ment to just write repeat.. am i right or wrong im learning more about this carb cycling business as every day goes by..


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## sassy69 (Jul 10, 2012)

jimm said:


> to me a refeed IS the high carb day after a no carb day i worded it wrong ment to just write repeat.. am i right or wrong im learning more about this carb cycling business as every day goes by..



Thx for clarifying. A "refeed" independent of the scheduled carb cycle would blow the whole thing.


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## Katherinejjm (Jul 10, 2012)

Carb nite!


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## independent (Jul 10, 2012)

Katherinejjm said:


> Carb nite!



Is carb nite a good diet?


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## lee111s (Jul 11, 2012)

Yeah it's awesome. It gets your body to use fat as an energy source. By going into ketogenesis (not ketosis) your body breaks down fatty acids to use as energy. The once a week "carb nite" spikes insulin which changes the levels of hormones such as leptin and ghrelin which put your body into an accelerated fat loss state for the next week of ultra low carb.

Check out dangerouslyhardcore.com there's so much information about it over there. I'm doing 4 weeks of carb nite to try and get my BF% as low as possible, I'm at around 9% right now (full 6 showing with veins in abs, striations in chest/serratus visable etc). Once I'm where I want to be I'll be moving to carb back loading. Similar to carb nite however you have carbs each time after you train.


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## jimm (Jul 11, 2012)

rage racing said:


> I eat alot of peanut butter on my no carb day to offset the calorie difference.



Am sure there is carbs in peanut butter bro well the stuff i usually use anyway..



sassy69 said:


> Thx for clarifying. A "refeed" independent of the scheduled carb cycle would blow the whole thing.



yeah i dont really understand the refeed thing yet im going to read the sticky tonight when i get some free time.




lee111s said:


> Yeah it's awesome. It gets your body to use fat as an energy source. By going into ketogenesis (not ketosis) your body breaks down fatty acids to use as energy. The once a week "carb nite" spikes insulin which changes the levels of hormones such as leptin and ghrelin which put your body into an accelerated fat loss state for the next week of ultra low carb.
> 
> Check out dangerouslyhardcore.com there's so much information about it over there. I'm doing 4 weeks of carb nite to try and get my BF% as low as possible, I'm at around 9% right now (full 6 showing with veins in abs, striations in chest/serratus visable etc). Once I'm where I want to be I'll be moving to carb back loading. Similar to carb nite however you have carbs each time after you train.



what you mean by "carb night" do you just have a normall diet e.g same pro carb and fat every day and then literally have a night of carbing up! im loving all this dieting its so fucking hard tho man i look leaner already but its been 2 weeks and my cravings are thru the roof!! im  going to stick this out tho im determined! i will get to the lowest bf in my life theres no if ands or buts about it... its getting done im still learning tho so im bound to make alot of mistakes along the way but thats life ey one big learning curve! ha..

cheers for that site ill be sure to spend some time reading up on it when i have the spare time tonight!...


but could u give me a breif explination of this carb night business just interested in it.. im sticking to my carb cycling for as long as it takes me to get my bf down but still im intregued..


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## lee111s (Jul 12, 2012)

Carb night is exactly that, one night of the week when you have carbs. The Kiefer program is called the "carb nite solution" or CNS.

You eat fat and protein only and have less than 30g carbs per day...often I'm way way less. Match your fat g with the number of protein g (protein should be done at 0.8-1.3g per lb per day) Right now I'm on about 150g fat and 130-160g protein per day (I weigh 152 @ 5'6 and around 9% BF) Don't worry about getting a shit ton of protein in, it's not necessary and can actually make it not work.

Last night was my carb nite and I ate ~550g carbs. I had some jasmine rice and tuna to start. A full packet of chocolate brownies, 4 large cookies, 3 donuts, 500g of mashed potato with butter and cream. Washed down with a full 500ml tub of B+J's chocolate fudge brownie froyo. I literally fell asleep with the spoon in my hand!

Woke up today a little bloated and rounded but that's normal, tomorrow I should be looking leaner than before the carb up. Now that I've carbed up my glycogen stores are replenished and my leptin levels will be sky high which will tell my body to burn even more fat this week. Back to fat and protein today, sausages, cheese and meatballs for lunch!


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## allskillz20 (Jul 29, 2012)

My no carbs days make me feel like I have mono or some shit... My energy levels fucking suck.


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## sassy69 (Jul 29, 2012)

allskillz20 said:


> My no carbs days make me feel like I have mono or some shit... My energy levels fucking suck.



That means its working. But I'd balance that w/ are you actually getting towards your goal or are actually sacrificing by running suboptimal fuel levels for your workouts.


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## lee111s (Jul 29, 2012)

You're not getting enough fat if you feel like shit


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## allskillz20 (Aug 1, 2012)

I'm just talking about the first two weeks, after that I'm golden


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## jimm (Aug 2, 2012)

yeah regardless the no carb days suck! i think its more a mental thing if anthing


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## lee111s (Aug 3, 2012)

I enjoy my no carb days to be honest. I eat bacon, sausage, eggs, ground beef, steak, lamb, tonnes of butter and pretty much any other meat you can think of (except chicken and turkey!) I never have an issue with energy levels, my body is well adapted to switching to using fat as energy.


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## stfuandliftbtch (Aug 3, 2012)

AugustWest said:


> Only if hes buying those pre-made shakes.   Whey/Casein mixed w/water (my protein shake)  has no more carbs than are in the protein which is zero.
> 
> Its really not as hard as your making it out to be.
> 
> ...





Damn, your high carb day is like half my regular/every day carb day haha


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## Big Smoothy (Mar 7, 2015)

allskillz20 said:


> My no carbs days make me feel like I have mono or some shit... My energy levels fucking suck.



I do some no carb days, and I feel the same. I feel lethargic mentally and sometimes, feel a sort of "jitters."

Anyone know why this is?


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## sassy69 (Apr 21, 2015)

Big Smoothy said:


> I do some no carb days, and I feel the same. I feel lethargic mentally and sometimes, feel a sort of "jitters."
> 
> Anyone know why this is?



Jimm had the question about whether or not he should be including the calories of additional fats on "no carb" day during a carb cycle diet. The question is are you doing a carb cycle diet AND a calorie cycle diet? When I'm dieting I'm usually on a fairly restricted cal intake to begin with. If I additionally drop the calories from carbs on 'low' or 'no' carb day, I would be operating also on an incredible calorie deficit.

If you are doing this and not replacing your carbs w/ the same calories in good quality fats, then you are suffering from both not being in ketosis from no carbs, but also a large calorie deficiency - which can make you feel incredibly lethargic. If you are at least keeping your total cals consistent day to day, and just altering your carb / fat macro ratios, then the lethargy can be coming from the drop in carbs, which is generally your body's preferred source of energy, but additionally you aren't at a low enough level of carb intake to have gone into ketosis (switching over the ketones as a preferred energy source). The additional cals from fats should be helping, but in my own experience, the first couple very low / no carb days of a carb cycle just plain old suck moose balls and I feel like trash. After getting more familiar with how it feels, I'm better able to handle it.

You may also choose to not do literally a no carb day, but make it more of a low carb day. Also what else are you eating on 'no carb' day? Those days I load the fuck out of leafy greens and make sure I'm getting the fats in.


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## Big Smoothy (Apr 30, 2015)

sassy69 said:


> Jimm had the question about whether or not he should be including the calories of additional fats on "no carb" day during a carb cycle diet. The question is are you doing a carb cycle diet AND a calorie cycle diet? When I'm dieting I'm usually on a fairly restricted cal intake to begin with. If I additionally drop the calories from carbs on 'low' or 'no' carb day, I would be operating also on an incredible calorie deficit.



I'm not sure I would call it a "carb cycle diet."  I adjust my carb level from low to moderate (pre and PW1 and PW2 meals), and on a non-lift day (which often incluces cardio) i have a no carb day.  

Only for say, 20-22-24 hours of 0 carbs. 

I've never done a caloric cycle diet. 



> If you are doing this and not replacing your carbs w/ the same calories in good quality fats, then you are suffering from both not being in ketosis from no carbs, but also a large calorie deficiency - which can make you feel incredibly lethargic. If you are at least keeping your total cals consistent day to day, and just altering your carb / fat macro ratios, then the lethargy can be coming from the drop in carbs



I get my other additionally calories from fats and proteins, so I'm getting enough calories. 

I used to read up on Ketosis, but I forget: is 24 hours of no carbs enough time to go into ketosis? 



> but in my own experience, the first couple very low / no carb days of a carb cycle just plain old suck moose balls and I feel like trash. After getting more familiar with how it feels, I'm better able to handle it.



Yeah, when I start a no carb day after a period of time of not doing no carb days, I feel icky, but then my body gets used to it. 

Thanks for the response, Sassy.


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## sassy69 (May 3, 2015)

Big Smoothy said:


> I'm not sure I would call it a "carb cycle diet."  I adjust my carb level from low to moderate (pre and PW1 and PW2 meals), and on a non-lift day (which often incluces cardio) i have a no carb day.
> 
> Only for say, 20-22-24 hours of 0 carbs.
> 
> ...



If you want to know absolutely if you are going into ketosis, you need to test yourself w/ ketostix (just one of many refs on Google as to how to use them: http://www.theketogenicdiet.org/ketostix/) .

A true ketogenic diet requires that you keep your carbs under 20g / day. Usually if you are just eating leafy greens you can get that much carb - when I do a keto diet for prep, I'll actually use powdered greens as my vegetable / fiber source and keep my food intake almost exclusively to fats & proteins w/ probably broccoli or spinach as the only actual vegetables. 1 day of no carb is not necessarily going to get you into ketosis. But if you're doing a carb rotation, ketosis isn't actually your goal. What you're trying to do is get your body to keep burning as if it was expecting a certain amount of carbs but before it realizes it isn't getting that amount of carb - so leveraging that slice of time before your body realizes it isn't going to get the carbs it has had in the past (e.g. your "high" day), but before it starts to step down metabolism to adjust for the lower expected carb availability, but also before it switches over to ketones. 

I didnt' notice if you put how much are your "moderate" carb days - if your total carbs on the non-no-carb days is too low, then you're just starving your body of its preferred energy source and eventually it will just opt to slow down metabolism and your fat loss will stall out. The point of a carb cycle is to spike your body w/ carbs on a rotation to keep things moving, but leverage a couple days of lower carbs while it is still metabolizing at the rate set by the high carb day.


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## theCaptn' (May 3, 2015)

Great info Sassy. Thx for dropping by


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## sassy69 (May 3, 2015)

theCaptn' said:


> Great info Sassy. Thx for dropping by



Yo Capn!


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## Big Smoothy (May 3, 2015)

sassy69 said:


> If you want to know absolutely if you are going into ketosis, you need to test yourself w/ ketostix (just one of many refs on Google as to how to use them: http://www.theketogenicdiet.org/ketostix/) .
> 
> A true ketogenic diet requires that you keep your carbs under 20g / day. Usually if you are just eating leafy greens you can get that much carb - when I do a keto diet for prep, I'll actually use powdered greens as my vegetable / fiber source and keep my food intake almost exclusively to fats & proteins w/ probably broccoli or spinach as the only actual vegetables. 1 day of no carb is not necessarily going to get you into ketosis. But if you're doing a carb rotation, ketosis isn't actually your goal. What you're trying to do is get your body to keep burning as if it was expecting a certain amount of carbs but before it realizes it isn't getting that amount of carb - so leveraging that slice of time before your body realizes it isn't going to get the carbs it has had in the past (e.g. your "high" day), but before it starts to step down metabolism to adjust for the lower expected carb availability, but also before it switches over to ketones.
> 
> I didnt' notice if you put how much are your "moderate" carb days - if your total carbs on the non-no-carb days is too low, then you're just starving your body of its preferred energy source and eventually it will just opt to slow down metabolism and your fat loss will stall out. The point of a carb cycle is to spike your body w/ carbs on a rotation to keep things moving, but leverage a couple days of lower carbs while it is still metabolizing at the rate set by the high carb day.



Thanks for the response and info, Sassy.

I honestly feel that the 0 carb days don't do anything for me, except for starve the body for energy, as you noted is likely happening.

I do know, however, the when I lower my carb intake (I try only eat veg cargs and oats) I lean out easier.


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## sassy69 (May 3, 2015)

Big Smoothy said:


> Thanks for the response and info, Sassy.
> 
> I honestly feel that the 0 carb days don't do anything for me, except for starve the body for energy, as you noted is likely happening.
> 
> I do know, however, the when I lower my carb intake (I try only eat veg cargs and oats) I lean out easier.



In that case, toss the no -carb days, esp if they leave you feeling flaky. The whole point of a good diet is to get your body's metabolism rolling and starving it may feel like you're getting "leaner", but its probably more about lack of water weight and you're probably flat. I would definitely lean more towards upping your carbs or at least not cutting them so much. Perpetual low carbing isn't great for you - especially as a guy since you're not dealing as much w/ estrogen, give your body more carbs to operate with. If you're doing a good diet and training program, it will more efficiently utilize the carbs.


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## Big Smoothy (May 6, 2015)

sassy69 said:


> In that case, toss the no -carb days, esp if they leave you feeling flaky. The whole point of a good diet is to get your body's metabolism rolling and starving it may feel like you're getting "leaner", but its probably more about lack of water weight and you're probably flat. I would definitely lean more towards upping your carbs or at least not cutting them so much. Perpetual low carbing isn't great for you - especially as a guy since you're not dealing as much w/ estrogen, give your body more carbs to operate with. If you're doing a good diet and training program, it will more efficiently utilize the carbs.



Yeah, I'll eat oats for carbs and some veggies. Some carbs are needed.

Cheers.


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