# Pirate's Primordial Performance 1-T Journey



## Pirate! (Dec 7, 2008)

I will be using 1-T at 4 pumps/day for no less than 27 days. If I enjoy the product as much as I hope, I might spring for a second bottle and extend the cycle. 

I don’t intend to keep a detailed log. Instead, I hope to offer useful subjective feedback. I’ve used my share of old school 1-AD, M1T, and 1-T esterfied gels during the time preceding the ban. I’ve also done a handful of steroid cycles, but it’s been over two years since the last one.

I’ve been an avid weight lifter for almost 6 years. I’ve had a great deal of setbacks along the way, including surgery on each shoulder and a knee. I’m on doctor prescribed Testosterone Replacement Therapy, but I’m otherwise in excellent health. 

I won’t get into measurements, weight etc. I will say I’m well below my peak.  I don’t plan to review this product in terms of numbers.

If you care to follow along, you will just have to trust that I know what to look for in judging anabolic hormones. I’m very in touch with my body, especially my chemistry. I’ve practiced as a sports nutritionist, and consider myself highly competent in that area. I will be following a PRRS work out program designed by Eric Broser (GoPro) that has given me great results in the past.
Much of what I will relate in this thread will be my impressions in the areas of energy, recovery, pump, strength, stamina, gains, vascularity, ability to squeeze out more reps etc… 

Blood work has checked out fine. I may or may not do follow up bloodwork. I’ll be making notes of sides, such lethargy, joint aches, painful back pumps etc, as well.

I just put the first 4 pumps on before bed tonight. 4 pumps is a lot of gel! Applied to entire torso region and upper arms (except upper back that I can’t reach). Absorbs amazingly well! The pump canister is top-notch, and the product makes a great presentation. 

I’ll update again after a few workouts. It’s going to be fun taking a product that shouldn’t destroy my lipids or liver.


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## quark (Dec 8, 2008)

Nice Pirate! Looking forward to the lpg.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 8, 2008)

this is cool.


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## tucker01 (Dec 8, 2008)

Not to jump off track.

How are the shoulders now?  What did you have done?


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## lucifuge (Dec 8, 2008)

I'm in, this will be interesting.


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## Pirate! (Dec 8, 2008)

IainDaniel said:


> How are the shoulders now?  What did you have done?



I had osteolysis of the distal clavicle, bursitis, and bone spurs. The surgery consisted of receding the clavicle a few mm to signal the bone to stop disintegrating, filing the spurs, shaving frayed tendon and removing a large portion of bursa. Itâ??????s been a few years, and the shoulders are much better. One shoulder still has minor bursitis, but I manage it by keeping my RC and serratus conditioned well. Icing and cervical traction has proven helpful, as well. Had I been more proactive in caring for shoulder stability and balance going into weight lifting, itâ??????s likely that my shoulders wouldnâ??????t have had to suffer the abuse I put them through by training ignorantly for so long.

Back day went well. Nothing special to report at this time. Next lifting session is Wednesday.


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## kicka19 (Dec 8, 2008)

im going to follow this, pirate knows his shit


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## Primordial (Dec 8, 2008)

Cool.. good to see the log Pirate!

-Eric


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## jwalk127 (Dec 9, 2008)

looking forward to seeing the results!


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## deathbypoops (Dec 9, 2008)

subbed


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## TrojanMan60563 (Dec 9, 2008)

Pirate are you taking the HRT during your current cycle? Do you know approx where your test levels are on HRT? Nice thing should be your test levels staying up while using this product. That is for sure an advantage if that is what you are doing.

Best of luck...maybe I'll be interested in such a cycle in a few months depending on how things go for you. I too am on HRT via doctor.


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## Pirate! (Dec 10, 2008)

Yes, I’m staying on my prescribed dose of Test. It keeps me around 800 ng/dl.

The DHEA and pregnelone seem to be helping with energy production and fatigue reduction. Otherwise, nothing to note at this time.


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## JKurz (Dec 10, 2008)

subbed


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## Pirate! (Dec 12, 2008)

I haven't experienced improved recovery yet, unfortunately. However, my libido has gone way up. My test levels are already in the upper end of natural range from TRT, but this topical DHEA is making a noticable difference in that department. 

It's pretty early on, but I can say that 1-T does not give me the instant gratification of a good oral, like H-Drol. Then again, oral 1-ad took weeks to do it's magic.


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## PreMier (Dec 12, 2008)

following


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## workingatit43 (Dec 13, 2008)

Subbed


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## Primordial (Dec 14, 2008)

Pirate! said:


> I haven't experienced improved recovery yet, unfortunately. However, my libido has gone way up. My test levels are already in the upper end of natural range from TRT, but this topical DHEA is making a noticable difference in that department.
> 
> It's pretty early on, but I can say that 1-T does not give me the instant gratification of a good oral, like H-Drol. Then again, oral 1-ad took weeks to do it's magic.



What are you training/dieting for right now Pirate?

-Eric


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## Pirate! (Dec 15, 2008)

I'm in caloric defecit of ~500 calories per day. The fat is coming off nicely, and I'm having a slight improvement in definition. 

No performance increase on this diet, but I'm going to add more carbs/calories next week for my shock week.

I feel really good.


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## Primordial (Dec 15, 2008)

Pirate! said:


> I'm in caloric defecit of ~500 calories per day. The fat is coming off nicely, and I'm having a slight improvement in definition.
> 
> No performance increase on this diet, but I'm going to add more carbs/calories next week for my shock week.
> 
> I feel really good.



Nice, I think the 1-T will work very nice for this purpose. 

The DHEA has pretty high conversion to 7-keto DHEA too which is very thermogenic, so that will help cut you up for sure.

-Eric


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## Pirate! (Dec 17, 2008)

Energy and well-being is still there, although I don't know if that would be true if I wasn't staying on my Testosterone replacement dose.

During my chest and bi workout yesterday, I noticed a little cramping in my right pec and bi. Nothing major, but very unordinary for me. Still no improvement in recovery or performance enhancement.


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## angel77 (Dec 19, 2008)

subbed......

The libido jump looks very nice to me. I'm havin' serious libido problems post cycle. How long before you noticed libido improvement?


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## Pirate! (Dec 22, 2008)

My libido improved during the first week. The mirror suggests slight progress. I'm having some minor joint aching, which was common for me on old school 1-T products. Nothing problematic, though. I had a killer back workout today. I'm hoping to recover quickly. Energy and wellness continues to be above normal.


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## PreMier (Dec 22, 2008)

have you noticed any weight gain, or strength increases (even ever so slight?)


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## Primordial (Dec 23, 2008)

PreMier said:


> have you noticed any weight gain, or strength increases (even ever so slight?)



We are noticing guys are dropping a lot of bodyfat while on 1-Tâ???¦ like its acting more as a cutting than a bulkerâ???¦

Did you happen to get your BF checked prior to starting Pirate?

-Eric


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## Pirate! (Dec 23, 2008)

I did not get my bodyfat checked. Workouts are a bit more productive, and recovery between workouts is going well. Strength and weight haven't changed significantly. It's pretty early on, though.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Dec 23, 2008)

Primordial said:


> We are noticing guys are dropping a lot of bodyfat while on 1-Tâ???¦ like its acting more as a cutting than a bulkerâ???¦
> 
> Did you happen to get your BF checked prior to starting Pirate?
> 
> -Eric



That is odd because my experience with 1-TU was something like 18lbs gained in 6 weeks. I gained a ton of strength too. I wasn't dieting to but, but I cant say I ate anymore then normal either.


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## Chevrolet (Dec 23, 2008)

what is this stuff now? a topical pro hormone?
hey i have distal clavicle osteolysis too. my whole shoulder girdle is kinda f'ed up from years of bad lifting practices.


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## ZECH (Dec 23, 2008)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> That is odd because my experience with 1-TU was something like 18lbs gained in 6 weeks. I gained a ton of strength too. I wasn't dieting to but, but I cant say I ate anymore then normal either.



These two are not even close. Just remember, Totally different compounds.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Dec 23, 2008)

dg806 said:


> These two are not even close. Just remember, Totally different compounds.



I guess when I see transdermal 1T I feel like it is the same thing.  I am pissed Nutrex has stopped making that product in every country. I would drive up to Canada on a weekend to stock up on that stuff without a doubt if it was still sold. I had a great 1TU experience.

DG so is this 1T product converted into 1AD, and that is converted into 1T? If that is the case I am suprised it works much at all. I tried 1AD before 1TU and there was a drastic difference between the two. If I remember correctly 1AD gets converted to 1T in the body?


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## Pirate! (Dec 27, 2008)

I'm experiencing:

Increased libido
Improved energy/wellness
Improved nutrient repartioning-fat loss
Very little anabolism
No strength change while losing some fat
Some improvement in recovery
More definition in mirror
No increase in pump or muscle hardness

It's still early on for a compound like this, and I it's likely that the dose is too low for me. I'd like to run it at 6 pumps/day for a few weeks for a better evaluation, but my stock is low.

Eric, will you donate another bottle so that I can run it at 6 pumps a day for a few more weeks?

BTW, I neglected to mention and thank Eric at Primordial Performance for donating a bottle of 1-T at my request.


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## flashinglights (Dec 28, 2008)

Wow, this stuff has to go through 2 enzymatic conversions for it to work? It seems like you would have to make this stuff extremely potent for it to work as effectively as other compounds on the market. It seems like you should have seen some strength gains by now.

60 bucks is a lot to pay. I sure wouldn't risk paying that much for something that might not work when I coul get havoc or superdrol for half the price.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Dec 28, 2008)

flashinglights said:


> Wow, this stuff has to go through 2 enzymatic conversions for it to work?



That is the vibe I get. I would venture to say these conversions do not happen at the same amount or rate in everyone. I know when I took 1AD that is supposed to convert to 1T it didn't do much. But taking 1T directly was great! I know people that liked 1AD so maybe their bodies converted it better than mine?

I would have to agree about the cost being up there for what you get in return. I am sure it works better for some more than others. I am in the mindset that the days of real pro-hormones, or pro-steroids are long gone. Not to say that companies cannot make something that could replace it, but I am not eager to test out random hormones on my body. I think with the ban in place companies are grasping at straws to keep the PH/PS market alive.


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## Pirate! (Dec 29, 2008)

flashinglights said:


> 60 bucks is a lot to pay. I sure wouldn't risk paying that much for something that might not work when I coul get havoc or superdrol for half the price.



If a product is effective and a healthy alternative to harsh orals then $2.50 a day isn't really all that much. 

Having said that, I don't have enough in my budget to buy a second bottle and run at a higher dose. I think this dose is too low for me. I'm going up to 6 pumps a day for the remainder of the cycle.


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## flashinglights (Dec 29, 2008)

Before you spray it, try scrubbing the skin you're about to apply it to (if you aren't already). I found that when I was on nicotine replacement patches, that helped the nicotine absorb since the dead skin cells weren't blocking as much.


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## Primordial (Dec 30, 2008)

Different people will convert 1-androsterone to 1-testosterone at different rates, so its bound to work differently in everyone. Even so, it only takes one conversion to turn 1-androsterone to the original 1-AD which has anabolic effects on its own. [For whatever its worth... some say they had even better results with 1-AD than 1-Testosterone]

Weâ??????ve been seeing guys gain 10-15lbs while breaking PRâ??????s in only 4 weeks while using 1-T solo so itâ??????s definitely having comparable anabolic effects to the old pro-hormones. Guys that arenâ??????t gaining a lot of weight are the one following an average diet, and are dropping significant bodyfat instead. 

Pirate, you got PM.

-Eric


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## workingatit43 (Dec 31, 2008)

Pirate! said:


> If a product is effective and a healthy alternative to harsh orals then $2.50 a day isn't really all that much.
> 
> Having said that, I don't have enough in my budget to buy a second bottle and run at a higher dose. I think this dose is too low for me. I'm going up to 6 pumps a day for the remainder of the cycle.



Agreed the extra cost would be worth it to me.


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## CellWarrior (Jan 1, 2009)

x2 $60 bucks isn't bad if it works. Keep the reports coming. I'd like to find out more about this stuff.


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## Mags (Jan 1, 2009)

If this 1-T turns out to be as effective as we all hope, is it worth throwing it in with my H-drol cycle, or is there no real need for it? Also, how severe are the sides on this? I did oral 1-Test ages ago and it kicked the piss out of my hair. I'm prone to MPB so it's no surprise, but will this 1-T be just as harsh?

Cheers.


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## Primordial (Jan 2, 2009)

Mags said:


> If this 1-T turns out to be as effective as we all hope, is it worth throwing it in with my H-drol cycle, or is there no real need for it? Also, how severe are the sides on this? I did oral 1-Test ages ago and it kicked the piss out of my hair. I'm prone to MPB so it's no surprise, but will this 1-T be just as harsh?
> 
> Cheers.




Weve had a very low incidence of side-effects reported from the 1-T. The worst probably being reduced libido after a few weeksâ???¦ and maybe some acne. Itâ??????s not going to cause problems with the liver though since its non-methylated.

Hdrol and 1-T should be a great stack. I know guys have been doing very well with epistane (havoc) and pplex with 1-T.

BTW, we just launched our NEW YEARS saleâ???¦ check it out Primordial Performance

-Eric


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## Mags (Jan 2, 2009)

Primordial said:


> Weve had a very low incidence of side-effects reported from the 1-T. The worst probably being reduced libido after a few weeksâ???¦ and maybe some acne. Itâ??????s not going to cause problems with the liver though since its non-methylated.
> 
> Hdrol and 1-T should be a great stack. I know guys have been doing very well with epistane (havoc) and pplex with 1-T.
> 
> ...


 
Does the reduced libido mean lack of interest in sex, or a more physical effect where it's tougher to get a rod on? I'm keeping tuned to this log as I'm quite keen to give this a whirl when running the Hdrol.


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## Pirate! (Jan 2, 2009)

I could see it stacking well with orals. It's very side friendly for me. No increase in acne. Experienced some muscle tightness (not pump) when doing chest today. I had the same thing happen a few weeks ago on chest/bi day. I had a simliar experience with 1-AD. 

I'm going to run 1-T for a few more weeks at 6 pumps.

I have about 20 H-drol pills. Maybe I'll stack it the last week.


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## Mags (Jan 3, 2009)

Firstly, at 4 pumps a day/27 applications, one tube of 1-T should technically last for approximately 4 weeks, is that correct? If so, is this going to be enough time to see optimum gains, or would a 6-week duration be more effective? 

Secondly, if I have a four-week supply of 1-T, whereabouts should I fit it into my 8-week Hdrol cycle - start, middle or end? 

Lastly, I was planning on running 100mg Hdrol ED. Is it still worth running this higher dose if I'm going to incorporate the 1-T?

Thanks.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jan 3, 2009)

Two 1-t pumps should last 6 weeks at 6 pumps. That is what I would run...but I'm not.


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## Mags (Jan 3, 2009)

Yeah, I assume a higher dose and a longer duration would yield better results, but the dose and duration I'd use with 1-T is dictated by cost. With a snowboarding holiday coming up, I can only afford 1 tube, so wanted to know if one would be effective. Also, I was only gonna run four pumps a day as I'd want it to last the full four weeks, and because I thought I wouldn't need to go too nuts if I was running high doses of Hdrol alongside it. Ideally, two tubes would be good, but I wanna wait and see how this product works out before I buy one let alone consider stretching to buy two.


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## Primordial (Jan 3, 2009)

Mags said:


> Does the reduced libido mean lack of interest in sex, or a more physical effect where it's tougher to get a rod on? I'm keeping tuned to this log as I'm quite keen to give this a whirl when running the Hdrol.



Probably both.. but guys are using intermittent doses of Sustain Alpha to combat this if it actually becomes a problem.

-Eric


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## Primordial (Jan 3, 2009)

Mags said:


> Firstly, at 4 pumps a day/27 applications, one tube of 1-T should technically last for approximately 4 weeks, is that correct? If so, is this going to be enough time to see optimum gains, or would a 6-week duration be more effective?
> 
> Secondly, if I have a four-week supply of 1-T, whereabouts should I fit it into my 8-week Hdrol cycle - start, middle or end?
> 
> ...



Id lower the dose of Hdrol and run the 1-T during the entire 6-week cycle. The less stress on the liver the better for overall gains and appetite.

-Eric


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## Primordial (Jan 3, 2009)

Mags said:


> Yeah, I assume a higher dose and a longer duration would yield better results, but the dose and duration I'd use with 1-T is dictated by cost. With a snowboarding holiday coming up, I can only afford 1 tube, so wanted to know if one would be effective. Also, I was only gonna run four pumps a day as I'd want it to last the full four weeks, and because I thought I wouldn't need to go too nuts if I was running high doses of Hdrol alongside it. Ideally, two tubes would be good, but I wanna wait and see how this product works out before I buy one let alone consider stretching to buy two.




If you grab the twin pack and apply the 10% off discount SPONSOR10 you can save about $25.

The 4 pumps per day with only 1 bottle would be a good stack with the Hdrol. Id probably use it during the first 4 weeks.

-Eric


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## Mags (Jan 4, 2009)

Primordial said:


> If you grab the twin pack and apply the 10% off discount SPONSOR10 you can save about $25.
> 
> The 4 pumps per day with only 1 bottle would be a good stack with the Hdrol. Id probably use it during the first 4 weeks.
> 
> -Eric


 

Nice one, thanks for the feedback.

Cheers.


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## Pirate! (Jan 4, 2009)

Starting Monday, I'm going to add 50 mg/day of H-drol on lifting days to assess how well these stack. 

I've noticed some headache/neck tension in the middle of the night about 3 nights a week since I've been on 1-T. 800 mg ibuprofen sets it straight everytime, though. 1-T estergels were way worse in this regard.


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## flashinglights (Jan 4, 2009)

Primordial said:


> If you grab the twin pack and apply the 10% off discount SPONSOR10 you can save about $25.
> 
> The 4 pumps per day with only 1 bottle would be a good stack with the Hdrol. Id probably use it during the first 4 weeks.
> 
> -Eric



Is a SERM recommended with this product? I can't imagine it not, if it really does cause a 10-15 pound increase in lean mass. If I could run this without a serm I'd pay the 60 bucks. Otherwise it's Epistane/Nolva


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## Mags (Jan 5, 2009)

flashinglights said:


> Is a SERM recommended with this product? I can't imagine it not, if it really does cause a 10-15 pound increase in lean mass. If I could run this without a serm I'd pay the 60 bucks. Otherwise it's Epistane/Nolva


 
I imagine 1-T can produce some decent gains, but I wouldn't get too hooked on the idea of gaining 15lbs. I read that if you run 1-T for longer than four weeks (i.e. 6 weeks) you'll need to consider a stronger PCT (adding Nolva, for example), but other than that, you should be fine. Have a look through some of the threads on the Primordial website and you'll find a fair amount of info regarding this product. I'm gonna run Hdrol for 8 weeks and wing in a pump of 1-T for four weeks. I'll be using Nolva at low doses as part of a PCT.


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## Mags (Jan 5, 2009)

Pirate! said:


> Starting Monday, I'm going to add 50 mg/day of H-drol on lifting days to assess how well these stack.
> 
> I've noticed some headache/neck tension in the middle of the night about 3 nights a week since I've been on 1-T. 800 mg ibuprofen sets it straight everytime, though. 1-T estergels were way worse in this regard.


 
Cool, be good to see how this works out. How long will your Hdrol last?


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## Primordial (Jan 5, 2009)

flashinglights said:


> Is a SERM recommended with this product? I can't imagine it not, if it really does cause a 10-15 pound increase in lean mass. If I could run this without a serm I'd pay the 60 bucks. Otherwise it's Epistane/Nolva



If you are saturated prohormone/steroid user then 1-T isn???t going to put on another 15lbs, but if you are fairly sensitive to the effects of androgens and can ramp up the diet it???s a very real possibility. [there are some awesome 1-T logs going on at AM, PP, OLM, ect] 

And no, you really don???t need nolva with 1-T. The Testosterone Recovery Stack is more than enough for PCT. 

I really don???t advise nolva or clomid use anymore. If you know how to use hCG correctly during a longer cycle, then there is no need for these SERM???s.

-Eric


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## Mags (Jan 6, 2009)

Primordial said:


> If you are saturated prohormone/steroid user then 1-T isn’t going to put on another 15lbs, but if you are fairly sensitive to the effects of androgens and can ramp up the diet it’s a very real possibility. [there are some awesome 1-T logs going on at AM, PP, OLM, ect]
> 
> And no, you really don’t need nolva with 1-T. The Testosterone Recovery Stack is more than enough for PCT.
> 
> ...


 
My bad, I thought I'd read that running 1-T for six weeks or longer required a stronger (not sure if that's the best word to describe it) PCT that could possibly incorporate nolva or clomid etc. I can't get hold of any HCG at present so was gonna run Nolva at 20/20/10/10 after an 8-week run of Hdrol/4-week run of 1-T. I know Hdrol's mild, but I thought a low dose of Nolva for four weeks would be handy/needed as part of a PCT. Is this not the case, then? 

Also, I'm not saying 15lbs isn't achieveable - especially for a newbie who has a decent diet in place - I'm just a natural sceptic. Hell, I want 1-T to be awesome like everyone else - I'm ordering some today 

Lastly, Pirate, apologies for semi-hijacking your thread. How's everything progressing?

Cheers.


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## ZECH (Jan 6, 2009)

Pirate! said:


> Starting Monday, I'm going to add 50 mg/day of H-drol on lifting days to assess how well these stack.
> 
> I've noticed some headache/neck tension in the middle of the night about 3 nights a week since I've been on 1-T. 800 mg ibuprofen sets it straight everytime, though. 1-T estergels were way worse in this regard.



Check bp??


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## Pirate! (Jan 6, 2009)

I had a nurse check my blood pressure twice, as recently as 12/31. 94/I forget. Pulse was 62. No problems there. Had a physical, too. The body aches are minor, really.

As I only will use the Hdrol on lifting days, it should last about three weeks.

I agree with primoridal that proper hcg use on cycle is the most important thing you can do for recovery after a prohomrone cycle (no injectibles). The drugs clear within 48 hours. 

Looking forward to chest/bis tomorrow. Wish I could get more rest in first. The wife wants to do it, so I can't go to bed yet. I'm amazingly horny thoughout the night. Just dream about sex.


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## Mags (Jan 7, 2009)

How long would I need to run HCG then? The duration of the cycle, or towards the end? Also, if anyone knows where I can grab some could you PM me?

Cheers.


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## Pirate! (Jan 7, 2009)

I ran labs after 4 weeks of 1-T. Didn't check lipids but liver, kidney and thyroid are all normal. Blood glucose was a low 2 hours after eating. It may be a typo, as I'm usually around 70 non-fasting. 

After two workouts with 50 mg of Hdrol, everything is going well. I feel great!

I'll be cracking into my second bottle of 1-T tomorrow. Over the next three weeks, I will:

1) Use 6 pumps of 1-T everyday and use 50 mg of Hdrol on lifting days.

2) Increase caloric intake

3) Train like an animal

4) GROW!


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## ZECH (Jan 7, 2009)

gotta keep the wife happy!


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## Primordial (Jan 8, 2009)

Mags said:


> How long would I need to run HCG then? The duration of the cycle, or towards the end? Also, if anyone knows where I can grab some could you PM me?
> 
> Cheers.



You won???t need hCG for only a 6 week cycle.. Id say anything longer and it would be a good idea though.

-Eric


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## Mags (Jan 9, 2009)

Primordial said:


> You won???t need hCG for only a 6 week cycle.. Id say anything longer and it would be a good idea though.
> 
> -Eric


 
What about the 8 weeks of Hdrol on top, or is that not suppressive enough?

Cheers.


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## Cane (Jan 9, 2009)

Do you have to use PCT when using 1-T for only 4 weeks? 
I would love to try this product but i dont want to see the negative side effects that some products produce. 
If you do have to use PCT, what types of products does primordial performance sell? 
specs:
5'10"
175
8%BF


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## Pirate! (Jan 9, 2009)

Let's keep this thread as my log and not discussion between various parties.

I've added a few pounds of muscle. Aside from slight muscle tension, I'm feeling grand. I'm taking two days off from the 1-T while I travel for the weekend. Had a great workout today. Recovery is improving now that my calories are up. The small amount of Hdrol helps, as well. Libidio is in full swing. I'm expecting to put on about three pounds more in the next three weeks with no change in waist size. I'm going to increase volume and go for heavy weight with slow eccentric during this next week of my power phase of my Power/Rep Range/Shock program.


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## Pirate! (Jan 14, 2009)

Recovery has been improving, and I'm able to handle higher volume without overtraining. Libido stays high, and energy is great. I'm now using Hdrol on workout days, which is typically three days a week.


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## PreMier (Jan 14, 2009)

are you using hcg at all?


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## Pirate! (Jan 15, 2009)

PreMier said:


> are you using hcg at all?


Yeah. Nice Goatee!

I'm on TRT with HCG, which definitely contributes to my energy and wellbeing while on cycle.


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## Hench (Jan 21, 2009)

Any more updates on this Pirate?


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## Cane (Jan 22, 2009)

I would love to know if you would recommend it or not. The total package is on sale for 150$ PCT and all including 2 bottles.


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## Pirate! (Jan 22, 2009)

I've still got a half of a bottle to finish. I would recommend this product to people who understand that it's not a serious mass builders. It's a safe an effective way to add some mass, lose some fat, and feel great with no adverse health effects. 

If you are used to the instant gratification of a cycle of harsh orals every couple months, you may be disappointed with it.

Ideal scenario is this:
1) You've been hormone free for 3+ months or are a newb to prohormones.
and
2) You go through 2 bottles, using HCG while on.

With the above and the right diet, many will find 1-T greatly assist a recomp. I like it alot, although it isn't a big mass builder. The only sides have been benefits for me while on TRT.


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## Cane (Jan 23, 2009)

Im new to all this so this question might sound stupid but what is HCG?

thank you for replying pirate,
cane


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## Pirate! (Jan 23, 2009)

Human chorionic gonadotropin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Cane (Jan 24, 2009)

thanks for the info.


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## Primordial (Jan 27, 2009)

Pirate! said:


> I've still got a half of a bottle to finish. I would recommend this product to people who understand that it's not a serious mass builders. It's a safe an effective way to add some mass, lose some fat, and feel great with no adverse health effects.
> 
> If you are used to the instant gratification of a cycle of harsh orals every couple months, you may be disappointed with it.
> 
> ...




Good summery Pirate. Even the guys that notice 10-15lbs gains with 1-T notice virtually zero side-effects. [aside from suppression]

I wouldn???t say that hCG is needed for only a 6 week cycle. Any longer than this, and I think it would be a good idea though.

And yes, the HMS is on sale now for $150.00 Just use the code 150HMS in the coupon field at Primordial Performance

-Eric


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## Pirate! (Jan 27, 2009)

I don't think HCG is necessary for recovery. It would just be useful for having the benefits that come along with normal testosterone levels during cycle. Thanks again, Eric. Your product is top notch. Clear benefits and no negative health sides.


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## Back2gym (May 7, 2009)

Hi Pirate, what is your guestimate on lbs of fat loss/ lbs of muscle gain at this point


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## Pirate! (May 7, 2009)

Well, I finished the cycle a good while ago. A rough estimate would be that I gained and kept up to two pounds of muscle and lost 3 pounds of fat. Felt great with zero sides and bloodwork was fine.


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## TrojanMan60563 (May 7, 2009)

Pirate! said:


> Well, I finished the cycle a good while ago. A rough estimate would be that I gained and kept up to two pounds of muscle and lost 3 pounds of fat. Felt great with zero sides and bloodwork was fine.



For gains like that I would rather spend my money on better food choices at the store. I'm not too impressed.


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## Pirate! (May 8, 2009)

The most profound benefit for me was the nutrient partitioning and a little hardening. I wan't disappointed, and I think a higher concentrate would have yielded better results. I had to apply a ton of lotion. It's a good option for newbies, but I've done a fair amount of gear in the past.


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## Stewart14 (May 8, 2009)

Pirate! said:


> The most profound benefit for me was the nutrient partitioning and a little hardening. I wan't disappointed, and I think a higher concentrate would have yielded better results. I had to apply a ton of lotion. It's a good option for newbies, but I've done a fair amount of gear in the past.


 
Maybe Primordial's 1-T Tren would be your next step?  By all accounts, it's supposed to be "stronger" than the 1-T.  If I didn't have small kids at home and have to worry about the lotion getting onto things it shouldn't, I would have probably tried that one, but since I had to go with a less "messy" solution, for now I am going with the 1-Andro RX


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## Pirate! (May 8, 2009)

I'll be going with 1-Andro RX next time, although the 1-Tren is tempting, too. It's going to be a few months before I cycle anything again.


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## TrojanMan60563 (May 8, 2009)

1-TU and other old PS are a thing of the past. I think these supplement companies are grasping at straws trying to make a near steroid product. For the poor return on investment aspect of these compounds I wouldn't even consider taking them. There is no such thing as near gear anymore, and I think the laws governing this has made it near impossible to make something like the old PS ever again. It will have to be some crazy breakthrough in science that creates the next breed of steroids, and it won't be long before that is discovered and ruined. And the reality is if such a great product gets made we won't know about it...sport athletes will use it for years before anyone tries to market it to the general public for consumption.


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## forman (May 8, 2009)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> it won't be long before that is discovered and ruined. And the reality is if such a great product gets made we won't know about it....



how could it be ruined if we wont know about it?

i dont think smart ppl are buying this shit thinking they are on a test/dbol cycle and are gonna get similar results, then again, their arent many smart ppl either.


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## workingatit43 (May 8, 2009)

Very detailed log nice job.


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## Primordial (May 12, 2009)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> 1-TU and other old PS are a thing of the past. I think these supplement companies are grasping at straws trying to make a near steroid product. For the poor return on investment aspect of these compounds I wouldn't even consider taking them. There is no such thing as near gear anymore, and I think the laws governing this has made it near impossible to make something like the old PS ever again. It will have to be some crazy breakthrough in science that creates the next breed of steroids, and it won't be long before that is discovered and ruined. And the reality is if such a great product gets made we won't know about it...sport athletes will use it for years before anyone tries to market it to the general public for consumption.



19-nor (TREN) is pretty damn real and is a very potent anabolic. (only requires one conversion to become dienolone which has the same anabolic and androgenic binding affinity as nandrolone... although it tends to be more characteristic of trenbolone) 

Odds are it will be banned within the next 6 months??? but then again, its been on the market for awhile and its been clean thus far???

-Eric


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## TrojanMan60563 (May 13, 2009)

Primordial said:


> 19-nor (TREN) is pretty damn real and is a very potent anabolic. (only requires *one conversion *to become *dienolone which has the same anabolic and androgenic binding affinity as nandrolone... although it tends to be more characteristic of trenbolone) *
> Odds are it will be banned within the next 6 months??? but then again, its been on the market for awhile and its been clean thus far???
> 
> -Eric




That is like saying 1-AD is just as good as taking 1-T...can you compare the two just because 1-AD is supposed to turn into 1-T? I took both and they are nothing close to the same at all.

Until someone that has taken tren before takes TREN and confims this product comes even close to the real thing I have to just label as mentioned before. If dienolone is similar to nandrolone, but plays out like trenbolone I have to question how this product didn't come from a shot in the dark that happened to do something.


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## Primordial (May 16, 2009)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> That is like saying 1-AD is just as good as taking 1-T...can you compare the two just because 1-AD is supposed to turn into 1-T? I took both and they are nothing close to the same at all.
> 
> Until someone that has taken tren before takes TREN and confims this product comes even close to the real thing I have to just label as mentioned before. If dienolone is similar to nandrolone, but plays out like trenbolone I have to question how this product didn't come from a shot in the dark that happened to do something.



Dienolone's structure is right inbetween nandrolone and trenbolone, but since it doesnt aromatize, its a bit more like trenbolone.

Dienolone is a readily available steroidial intermediate used in China to produce trenbolone. They just attach anther double bond to it to enhance the androgen/progestin binding affinity. (to make it as strong as possible for those heifers)

Ive used both trenbolone and the 19-nor dienolone precursor and I can say without a doubt that it is comparable??? but obviously not as powerful as tren??? but still plenty powerful to make very considerable gains.

-Eric


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## TrojanMan60563 (May 16, 2009)

Primordial said:


> Dienolone's structure is right inbetween nandrolone and trenbolone, but since it doesnt aromatize, its a bit more like trenbolone.
> 
> Dienolone is a readily available steroidial intermediate used in China to produce trenbolone. They just attach anther double bond to it to enhance the androgen/progestin binding affinity. (to make it as strong as possible for those heifers)
> 
> ...





I have never used tren due to the high risk of increased anxiety. I have issues with anxiety/panic without gear so on most compounds I do get increased anxiety. Some worse then others but with the side effect being common with tren I have never used it. Do you have an opinion if "tren" the supplement has the same anxiety side effects as the real deal? If not maybe I would give it a run for 6-8 weeks to see what results are noted. I have not been very motivated to do another AAS cycle, but might try and keep an open mind.


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## Primordial (May 19, 2009)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> I have never used tren due to the high risk of increased anxiety. I have issues with anxiety/panic without gear so on most compounds I do get increased anxiety. Some worse then others but with the side effect being common with tren I have never used it. Do you have an opinion if "tren" the supplement has the same anxiety side effects as the real deal? If not maybe I would give it a run for 6-8 weeks to see what results are noted. I have not been very motivated to do another AAS cycle, but might try and keep an open mind.



I???ve actually never head of trenbolone causing ???anxiety???, but I know it causes ???aggression??? and ???sensitivity to things that make you annoyed?????? and our 1-T TREN seems to have the same effect???. Buts its not like an uncomfortable nervous anxiety time feel???. Its more of a motivation to do stuff type feel.

Hell if you are anxiety prone you may want to consider the Sustain Alpha. The 7,8-benzoflavone has some great anti-anxiety benefits.

-Eric


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## OneWheyOrAnother (May 20, 2009)

So Pirate! what did your full PCT consist of?


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## TrojanMan60563 (May 20, 2009)

Primordial said:


> I???ve actually never head of trenbolone causing ???anxiety???, but I know it causes ???aggression??? and ???sensitivity to things that make you annoyed?????? and our 1-T TREN seems to have the same effect???. Buts its not like an uncomfortable nervous anxiety time feel???. Its more of a motivation to do stuff type feel.
> 
> Hell if you are anxiety prone you may want to consider the Sustain Alpha. The 7,8-benzoflavone has some great anti-anxiety benefits.
> 
> -Eric



2mg xanax seems to work wonders for my anxiety...best benzo I know of 

Is that an anti-anxiety supplement, or PH/PS type drug?

I had heard trenbolone isn't a good steriod of choice for anxiety prone people. I had issues even on 150mg EOD of test propionate, and quite a bit actually on 500mg EW of Enanthate/300mg deca. I am not sure why the steroids increased my anxiety, but it did. All gear use was before taking anything to control anxiety. I assume I could control the anxiety much better now.


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## Primordial (May 21, 2009)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> 2mg xanax seems to work wonders for my anxiety...best benzo I know of
> 
> Is that an anti-anxiety supplement, or PH/PS type drug?
> 
> I had heard trenbolone isn't a good steriod of choice for anxiety prone people. I had issues even on 150mg EOD of test propionate, and quite a bit actually on 500mg EW of Enanthate/300mg deca. I am not sure why the steroids increased my anxiety, but it did. All gear use was before taking anything to control anxiety. I assume I could control the anxiety much better now.



Yeah, the Sustain Alpha is a PCT / testosterone boosting product??? but it just so happens to have some great anti-anxiety effects.

-Eric


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## abomb555 (May 23, 2009)

Primordial said:


> Yeah, the Sustain Alpha is a PCT / testosterone boosting product??? but it just so happens to have some great anti-anxiety effects.
> 
> -Eric



i'm a HUGE fan of the TRS !!!


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## Primordial (May 24, 2009)

abomb555 said:


> i'm a HUGE fan of the TRS !!!



Thanks bro... so am I.


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## Cincimanatti (Nov 26, 2009)

Fail!!!!!!!


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