# Best Fat burner??



## tyees2002 (Feb 23, 2004)

Hey, I am 5'9 160. I am fairly toned everywhere except my midsection. I want to get it nice n' toned. I have been cleaning up my diet and working my abs but i need that extar boost.My question is, what "fat burner" is considered the best? How is cyclocuts?? I have heard it dulls appetite..if so I can't have that. Anyways i'd like to hear a few opinions to help me cut some fat.


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## 22"bi's (Feb 23, 2004)

I use ripped fuel from Twinlab


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## Vieope (Feb 24, 2004)

_ Click it: 
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26620 _


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## plouffe (Feb 24, 2004)

Stacker 2 - With Ephedrine is pretty damn good. Take like 5-6 ED and spread them out through the day, you'll be cutting some weight my friend.


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## Twin Peak (Feb 25, 2004)

The best fat burner is not yet available.  Wait about two weeks.


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## QuestionGuy (Feb 25, 2004)

what do you mean with that ?


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## Vieope (Feb 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by QuestionGuy *_
> what do you mean with that ?



_ yeah _


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## HoldDaMayo (Feb 25, 2004)

he means, Avant Labs, is coming out with a fat burner soon...


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## Twin Peak (Feb 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by HoldDaMayo *_
> he means, Avant Labs, is coming out with a fat burner soon...



Very soon.


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## Vieope (Feb 25, 2004)

_ *Twin Peak*, Avant Labs has a franchise in Brazil ? _


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## derekisdman (Feb 25, 2004)

You know it's gonna be the best fat burner ever when you visit the main page and the main picture is a spoof of 2001: A Space Odyssey with the Avant symbol on the monolith.  I'll buy Avant products just because of this alone heh.


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## Twin Peak (Feb 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by derekisdman *_
> You know it's gonna be the best fat burner ever when you visit the main page and the main picture is a spoof of 2001: A Space Odyssey with the Avant symbol on the monolith.  I'll buy Avant products just because of this alone heh.



LOL.  That was an ad we had placed in several magazines.  To their credit, VPX found it amusing as well.  No one else did.  Ah well.

Vieop -- No.


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## Vieope (Feb 25, 2004)

_ I hope you guys accept paypal and international shipping. _


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## derekisdman (Feb 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> LOL.  That was an ad we had placed in several magazines.  To their credit, VPX found it amusing as well.  No one else did.  Ah well.
> 
> Vieop -- No.



I don't see how people couldnt love that, unless maybe they haven't seen the movie.  I honestly think that's the best advertisement i've ever seen for ANY product or company.  Whoever thought of that should be given some kind of award.


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## Twin Peak (Feb 25, 2004)

Yes, re international, I am not sure re Paypal.

Derek, I agree.  It was Par Deus's brainchild, and the guys who brought it to life are just genious.


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## Par Deus (Feb 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by derekisdman *_
> I don't see how people couldnt love that, unless maybe they haven't seen the movie.  I honestly think that's the best advertisement i've ever seen for ANY product or company.  Whoever thought of that should be given some kind of award.



Why, thank you.


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## Par Deus (Feb 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Yes, re international, I am not sure re Paypal.



Checking on PayPal -- I know we were going to get it set up a while ago, but not sure if we did.


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## nikegurl (Feb 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Very soon.



weeks?  months?


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## Twin Peak (Feb 25, 2004)

Weeks.  Not many.


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## nikegurl (Feb 25, 2004)

I cut and pasted this from Avant's website.  Is this the one TP?

*************************************************
Oral Fat Burner and Anti-Fat Gain Agent: This has been developed specifically to increase one???s potential to burn fat while simultaneously decreasing one???s ability to store it???all mediated at the cellular level. This is the ideal supplement for the fat-prone endomorph. Designed to increase basal and NE-induced lipolysis, it also increases leptin sensitivity, increases fat oxidation capacity and upregulates energy expenditure. In addition to these positive effects on body composition, it???s good for your brain, is great at favorably altering blood cholesterol profiles, and is beneficial for your heart.  All in all, the perfect diet aid.
****************************************************

If yes, will it have any stimulant effect?  Thanks again


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## plouffe (Feb 25, 2004)

Now all the shit needs is some ephedrine.


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## Twin Peak (Feb 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> I cut and pasted this from Avant's website.  Is this the one TP?
> 
> *************************************************
> ...



Actually, no.  That is a different product, that will follow shortly behind the one I am mentioning, which will have a stimulant effect for most.


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## Twin Peak (Feb 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by plouffe *_
> Now all the shit needs is some ephedrine.



Actually, the one I am talking about will make you forget all about ephedrine.


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## nikegurl (Feb 25, 2004)

i like stimulant effects.   

is there any info yet on avant's website that i could read?


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## Twin Peak (Feb 25, 2004)

I don't think there is yet.  Don't fret, its not far away, we are in house testing now.


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## nikegurl (Feb 25, 2004)

cool.    my high maintenance side was having a little flare up for a few minutes.   

i know you'll keep us posted.  thanks again.  glad to hear your shoulder is doing well.


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## GAmuscle26 (Feb 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> i like stimulant effects.
> 
> is there any info yet on avant's website that i could read?



 Right on! I'm with you on that one.


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## greekblondechic (Feb 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I don't think there is yet.  Don't fret, its not far away, we are in house testing now.



are you the house?  jk

watching fat people eat is a pretty good appetite suppressant if you ask me


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## senimoni (Feb 25, 2004)

Someone should make a realistic looking jar of human fat, I could carry it with me whenever I want a snickers.


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## MissOz (Feb 25, 2004)

It's not fair you guys have some heaps better supplements than we can get a hold of here in Oz...xx


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## plouffe (Feb 26, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Actually, the one I am talking about will make you forget all about ephedrine.





You try it out yet? What's all in it? The same ol' shit or something new.


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## jaydawg73 (Feb 26, 2004)

now you have me geeked about seeing the newbie stuff come out.. so who's the guinie pig for this one.. a guinie pig? or human clones?


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## Twin Peak (Feb 26, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by plouffe *_
> You try it out yet? What's all in it? The same ol' shit or something new.



Some new ingredients.  Some previously underutilized/overlooked ingredients.  More synergistic combinations.

Since when has Avant ever done anything that can be classified as "the same ol' shit?" 

I personally have not tried it yet, but there are several people testing several different combinations of dosages, as the synergistic interactions are critical here.


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## jaydawg73 (Feb 26, 2004)

sweet.. cant wait for update on the "real deal".. def. need replacement for ephedra


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## Par Deus (Feb 26, 2004)

I am hopeful that we will have feedback from our testers on Monday (this is just acute testing of different formulas and dosages -- not trying to look at bodycomp).

I have tested it for 2+ days. It is mentally stimulating, and it is pleasant, but there is no jittery, tweaky feeling. No increased heart rate or blood pressure.

Appetite suppression has been good to very good, but not great, which in combination with the total lack of side effects leads me to believe  higher dosing might be ideal, so I'm going to experiment with that, while awaiting everyone else's feedback.


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## aggies1ut (Feb 27, 2004)

When can it be preordered, and is it really 2 weeks away from being available?


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## Twin Peak (Feb 27, 2004)

I am not sure that this will be a product for which we will accept preorders.  2-3 weeks is a realistic timeframe.


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## HoldDaMayo (Feb 27, 2004)

will it cost 5 million dollars for a tub?
**cough** leptigen **cough**


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## Par Deus (Feb 28, 2004)

Not likely to take pre-orders. And, yes, we are still quite hopeful of having the beta ready to ship soon -- aiming for March 11th, when the next issue of the mag comes out. If we are like a week behind schedule, we would probably take pre-orders, in that case, otherwise, we will not.

It will be much cheaper than Leptigen -- will be in line with what Hydroxcut and Xenedrine were -- $60 MSRP, and available form discount retailers for $35-$40 for 1 month at max dosing. The beta will cost $30.

Actually, just did a search, and with the ephedra free formulas (which suck anyway, if science and feedback are to be believed) for those are that price for about 3 weeks worth, so it will actually be 25% cheaper than those.


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## Par Deus (Feb 28, 2004)

I have been experimenting with dosing that is 100% higher for 2 of the 4 ingredients and 50% higher in the other two for about 2 days, and it is getting closer to ideal -- no desire to eat anything except the yummiest of foods, it is a little more stimulating, mood enhancement is even better, and the side effects are still virtually non-existent, though I have noticed an increase in heart rate with exercise from it.


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## Jodi (Mar 2, 2004)

BUMP!


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## Par Deus (Mar 3, 2004)

I think everyone is done with there testing, but I have not received the report on the whole of it yet. But, from what I am told, the reports are similar to mine.

I'm taking off for the Arnold tomorrow, so I should have this when I get back.


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## jay_d (Mar 9, 2004)

*Looking for a fat burner.....*



> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> The best fat burner is not yet available.  Wait about two weeks.




I know it already out!! But I would like the name of the product.
And you mentioned something about making your heart accelerate when exercising. Is that true??
How good is this product?
Thanks for any input.
Jay


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## Jodi (Mar 9, 2004)

As far as I know it is not out yet.


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## jay_d (Mar 9, 2004)

thx jodi..thought it was


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## Twin Peak (Mar 9, 2004)

Give it a few days.


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## Par Deus (Mar 13, 2004)

We released this Friday.

It is called "H.E.A.T. Stack.

Can find a lot of info here:

http://www.avantlabs.com/page.php?pageID=235&issueID=18

Summary here:

Beta Versions: 


???H.E.A.T.??? stands for Hordenine, Evodiamine, Alpha-yohimbine, and Tyramine. And, in the right combination, they are far, far more than a clever acronym. While its ancestors, with their focus on only norepinephrine, did wonders for appetite suppression, they were modest thermogenics, at best. And, worse than that, they were all out enemies of the central adipostatic machinery, the Fed State, and they caused hypersensitivity to cortisol and the stress response. 

With H.E.A.T. Stack, we have added a superior increase in dopamine and epinephrine to a more moderate activation of norepinephrine. The result is activation of more lipolytic and thermogenic pathways, better maintenance of long-term adipostatic machinery, potent appetite suppression, and strong mood and energy support, with fewer negative side-effects. 

To summarize:
Superior nutrient partitioning 
Superior thermogenesis 
Greater energy expenditure increase 
Reduced anxiety and jitters 
Superior hunger control 
More leptin friendly 
Enhances mood and energy 
Caffeine free 
Ephedra free 
Reduced heart rate and blood pressure increase
HEAT Stack is 270 capsules, and lasts 30 days at full dosing. 

Pre-orders expected to ship within 7-14 days.


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## Testosterone (Mar 14, 2004)

Sounds very next generation product on paper!


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## topolo (Mar 14, 2004)

does one have to be in a calorie deficit to see effects?????


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## Twin Peak (Mar 14, 2004)

You'd probably lose fat while at maintenance.


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## HoldDaMayo (Mar 14, 2004)

TP, are there any negative prostate effects like Ephedra/ephedrine?


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## oaktownboy (Mar 14, 2004)

alright can't wait to try it


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## Par Deus (Mar 16, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by topolo *_
> does one have to be in a calorie deficit to see effects?????




It should have positive nutrient repartitioning effects, and it should increase fat loss, so yes, it should be noticeable, even at maintenence (assuming you are strict and take measurements), but it is primarily intended to assist with dieting, not for recomposition on maintenence calories. Our LeptiGen products and SesaThin would be better for that.


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## Par Deus (Mar 16, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by HoldDaMayo *_
> TP, are there any negative prostate effects like Ephedra/ephedrine?



It has some signalling through these pathways, but significantly less than with ephedrine, so I think it will be much less of a problem.

From personal experience, I notice prostate swelling with 25 mg of ephedrine 3 times per day, if I use it for more than 1 day. I noticed nothing from H.E.A.T. Stack, nor did any of the testers.


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## Deeznuts (Mar 16, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by 22"bi's *_
> I use ripped fuel from Twinlab



How's this stuff work? I've thought about switching from Hydorxycut to this product. Let me know!


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