# Stiff-arm pulldown



## Josh (Aug 31, 2002)

Gopro has advised doing stiff-arm pulldown as a back exercise a while ago.  I have tried this a couple of times, but can't seem to feel any back muscle working with it, especially at the top of the movement where I think the contraction should happen.  The way I do it is by standing facing the weight rack, bend a bit at the waist, then while keeping the elbows locked (arms straight) I reach and hold the bar connected to the upper pulley (here I can feel my lats stretched), then with elbows still locked I pull the bar until it touches my quads.  Is this form correct?  With this form, I feel my lats stretched in the upper position, but after a few reps I begin to feel my triceps being contracted when pulling the bar down, and at the bottom position I can't seem to contract my lats.  Am I doing something wrong?

- Josh


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## Scotty the Body (Aug 31, 2002)

Your form sounds about right, it helps if your a foot or two away from the wieght stack. I found with this exercise, its better to use a lighter weight and go for higher reps (12-15). 

It just takes a little getting use to.


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## gopro (Aug 31, 2002)

Stretch is at the top, contraction is at the bottom. You do not necessarily need to touch your thighs at the bottom. Just go to the point where you can feel the squeeze...for some this happens before you touch the thighs. Also, try not to hold the bar too tightly and do not wrap your thumb around the bar. Use a "false grip" whereby your thumb is on the same side of the bar as your other fingers. Finally, keep your wrists straight and even with your forearms the whole time. When you begin to "pull down" immediately start by contracting your lats and MAKING them lift the weight!


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## Josh (Aug 31, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Stretch is at the top, contraction is at the bottom. You do not necessarily need to touch your thighs at the bottom. Just go to the point where you can feel the squeeze...for some this happens before you touch the thighs. Also, try not to hold the bar too tightly and do not wrap your thumb around the bar. Use a "false grip" whereby your thumb is on the same side of the bar as your other fingers. Finally, keep your wrists straight and even with your forearms the whole time. When you begin to "pull down" immediately start by contracting your lats and MAKING them lift the weight!



How about the triceps?  I know this is not a tris exercise, but should you feel any contraction there?  How about the body bent, I wonder whether I bent too much or too little, whether this make the difference on the muscles being affected.  How much bent should I do?  I'll try again to concentrate more on contracting my lats next time I do this exercise.

- Josh


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## powerrack (Aug 31, 2002)

Ok I personally don't hold the bar. I keep my hand open, and rest my palms on the bar, using a grip about 1inch in from my shoulder width. I found with my hands open I use more lat. At the start of the movement you should be a couple feet away from the weight stack and your lats should be in a stretched position. I lean in and down about 10degrees with my knees bent and butt slightly out. Using lat power only bring your arms down while keeping arms straight, until your lats squeeze at the bottom part of the movement. For me it's about 2inches away from my quads. 
These pictures may help you:


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## gopro (Sep 1, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Josh *_
> 
> 
> How about the triceps?  I know this is not a tris exercise, but should you feel any contraction there?  How about the body bent, I wonder whether I bent too much or too little, whether this make the difference on the muscles being affected.  How much bent should I do?  I'll try again to concentrate more on contracting my lats next time I do this exercise.
> ...



The triceps act as stabilizers in this movement, so they ARE involved. Just try to keep the involvement to a minimum by using your mind! As for the foward lean...I prefer about a 30 degree bend at the waist.


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## gopro (Sep 1, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by powerrack *_
> Ok I personally don't hold the bar. I keep my hand open, and rest my palms on the bar, using a grip about 1inch in from my shoulder width. I found with my hands open I use more lat. At the start of the movement you should be a couple feet away from the weight stack and your lats should be in a stretched position. I lean in and down about 10degrees with my knees bent and butt slightly out. Using lat power only bring your arms down while keeping arms straight, until your lats squeeze at the bottom part of the movement. For me it's about 2inches away from my quads.
> These pictures may help you:




Good input!


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## powerrack (Sep 2, 2002)

thanks gopro. btw, i wish that was me in the pics,hahahah


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## Claudette (Sep 3, 2002)

Where in your back routine do you do this exercise? I've been meaning to incorporate it into my regular routine, but I don't know where to put it. My back routine varies, but my lat pull-downs, pull-ups, db rows and back extensions always stay the same. I usually add a coupld of rowing exercises to my routine, though.


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## gopro (Sep 4, 2002)

Stiff arm pulldowns are best used in the beginning of back day to "pre-exhaust" the lats and teres through isolation....OR, at the end of your routine, when your biceps are fatigued, as stiff arms do not rely at all on bicep recruitment.


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## ALBOB (Sep 4, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Stiff arm pulldowns are best used in the beginning of back day to "pre-exhaust"



That's exactly what I started doing with WONDERFUL results.   BTW, instead of using a cable to do this I do dumb bell pull overs, I sacrifice some of the contraction at the top of the movement but I get a better stretch at the bottom.


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## Claudette (Sep 4, 2002)

DB pullovers are the same as stiff arm pulldowns???


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## ALBOB (Sep 4, 2002)

Yup.    

(As an afterthought I want to make sure we're talking about the same exercise.  You lay perpendicular to a bench with your shoulders and upper back on the bench.  Hold the DB at arms length above your chest and then, keeping your arms straight, you lower the weight down past your head as far as possible to get a good stretch in your lats.  Then, keeping your arms straight again, you slowly raise the weight back up to the starting position.)


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## Claudette (Sep 4, 2002)

yup, that's the same exercise, Albob. Thanks


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## Scotty the Body (Sep 4, 2002)

I feel those more in my chest (stretch) than my back Albob, I've never tried them with a bb though, just DB.


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## Claudette (Sep 4, 2002)

i'm with scotty. i usually do them with my chest workout, not the back. although, i have seen articles in magazines suggesting doing pullovers on back days...


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## gopro (Sep 5, 2002)

Stiff arm pulldowns are not the same as pullovers...similar, but not the same.

Stiff arm pulldowns has far more tension in the peak contraction of the movement, while pullovers have far more tension in the stretch...this changes how the muscle is recruited and how it is affected. One very painful, as well as effective, way of using these two movements is to superset them. This will give you the best of both worlds and produce a searing growth burn in your lats.

Now as far as pullovers being more for chest than lats, it is mostly in how they are performed. For more lat stimulation go about 10-20 % lighter and use a straighter arm position. This will force a greater recruitment of the lats.


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## ALBOB (Sep 5, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_Stiff arm pulldowns has far more tension in the peak contraction of the movement, while pullovers have far more tension in the stretch...this changes how the muscle is recruited and how it is affected.



Yup, I meant to say that more clearly in my first post.  Thanks gopro  



> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Now as far as pullovers being more for chest than lats, it is mostly in how they are performed. For more lat stimulation go about 10-20 % lighter and use a straighter arm position. This will force a greater recruitment of the lats.



Another thing that will help recruit more lat fibers is hand position.  Scotty hit the nail on the head.  Try using a barbell instead of a dumb bell, that way you can use a wider grip and hit your lats better.


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## Claudette (Sep 5, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by ALBOB *_
> 
> 
> Yup, I meant to say that more clearly in my first post.  Thanks gopro



Then why didn't you do that the first time??


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## ALBOB (Sep 5, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Claudette *_Then why didn't you do that the first time??



Uhhh................Emmmmm...............Errrrrrr.................This give me more opportunities to flirt with you?  Yeah, that's it.


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## gopro (Sep 5, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by ALBOB *_
> 
> 
> Yup, I meant to say that more clearly in my first post.  Thanks gopro
> ...



OK, no disrepect to anybody, but, hand spacing doesn't really affect lat recruitment in pullovers. Using a dumbell will actually put the lats under a greater stretch than a barbell. I consider cross bench pullovers one of the best exercises available for the upper lats and teres minor. It can really help you look wide right under the armpits.


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## ALBOB (Sep 6, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_OK, no disrepect to anybody, but, hand spacing doesn't really affect lat recruitment in pullovers.



Proof once again that you should try something before recommending it.  Sorry everybody, I posted that because I read it in one of the muscle rags.  I've never actually used a bar bell for pull overs, I've always used a dumb bell.  Sorry again for the mis-info and thanks for the correction gopro.


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## Scotty the Body (Sep 6, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> OK, no disrepect to anybody, but, hand spacing doesn't really affect lat recruitment in pullovers.



Ok, like Albob, I also have never done them with a bar, I agree that there isn't any more Lat recruitment from DB to BB but I wonder if there isn't more Chest recruitment using the DB over BB cause I know I sure feel a stretch in my chest using DB.


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## Mudge (Sep 6, 2002)

I used a dumbell but in the old days it was done with a barbell. I have also used a machine that would place hands similar to a barbell.


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## Scotty the Body (Sep 6, 2002)

So do you feel any difference in your chest between the two Mudge?


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