# Pre Workout Supplement question



## Adamr (Oct 25, 2010)

Hi, I am looking for some good pre-workout supplements, preferrably something with a fat burner & maybe a Testosterone booster.

I currently train 3-4 times per week and supplement with 4 scoops of Whey Isolate per day.

Any advice would be of great help.

Thanks Adam


----------



## braveand (Oct 25, 2010)

Almost every prewo will include some caffeine and/or Green The, Black Pipper, or other elements that will increase your CNS activity that will also increase your MBR (read burn more fat, with the right training and diet).

Jack3D, White Flood, NO Shotgun, are just few examples..

From the other side you can't found a prewo that will include elements that will increase your physiological test level. You will need to buy another type of supplement for that.


----------



## JMRQ (Oct 25, 2010)

I recommend Jack3d and NO-Xplode...


----------



## cavtrooper96 (Oct 25, 2010)

I DONT recommend NO Explode


----------



## ScorpionKing (Oct 25, 2010)

Just go with Jacked 3d. Its not to bad on price and the new grape flavor taste pretty good. Make sure you drink plenty of water during workout. A couple bottles. As far as Test Booster I will have to defer to my Natty friends for that one.


----------



## JMRQ (Oct 25, 2010)

So go with Jack3d, and as far as a natural Test-booster I've seen that Tribulus Terrestris is the de facto ingredient, so just pick up a bottle of that...


----------



## Adamr (Oct 26, 2010)

Thanks guys, so it looks like Jack3d has a lot of fans & could be a good one to start with.
So, if I go with Jack3D and I have a Whey shake twice a day are there any other supps that you would recommend to go along with them?


----------



## theCaptn' (Oct 26, 2010)

Bronk-aid and caffine tabs from fucking walmart


----------



## cavtrooper96 (Oct 26, 2010)

theCaptn' said:


> Bronk-aid and caffine tabs from fucking walmart



Amen to that one Captn'!!!

Trib just makes you horny. It hasnt been really proven to increase test!


----------



## Adamr (Oct 26, 2010)

theCaptn' said:


> Bronk-aid and caffine tabs from fucking walmart



Wow......didn't know Walmart had changed their company name! Not sure British councils will allow Asda to add that to the front of their logo.


----------



## Adamr (Oct 26, 2010)

cavtrooper96 said:


> Amen to that one Captn'!!!
> 
> Trib just makes you horny. It hasnt been really proven to increase test!



Am I right in thinking that Zinc tablets are a good for increasing testosterone?


----------



## theCaptn' (Oct 26, 2010)

zinc does fuckall unless your diet is that shit


----------



## vortrit (Oct 26, 2010)

cavtrooper96 said:


> I DONT recommend NO Explode



I never did like it. I do like Fast Twitch. I usually just drink coffee because I don't want to pay for the fast twitch.


----------



## theCaptn' (Oct 26, 2010)

drink coffee and jizz for a test booster


----------



## Adamr (Oct 26, 2010)

Hmmm, that may float your boat captn but not for me I'm afraid!


----------



## juggernaut (Oct 26, 2010)

I'm coming out with a pre-workout stim in a few days with my company. We're taking limited time orders for 22.00 a piece right now, and it will sell for 24.95. 
Go to Beyond Nutrition or look for us on Facebook


----------



## omerta2010 (Oct 27, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> I'm coming out with a pre-workout stim in a few days with my company. We're taking limited time orders for 22.00 a piece right now, and it will sell for 24.95.
> Go to Beyond Nutrition or look for us on Facebook


 
Just ordered mine. 

Picked up some All-In-1 as well. 

Will start a thread once I finish up my current jugs and move on to Beyond Nutrition's product.


----------



## juggernaut (Oct 27, 2010)

omerta2010 said:


> Just ordered mine.
> 
> Picked up some All-In-1 as well.
> 
> Will start a thread once I finish up my current jugs and move on to Beyond Nutrition's product.



Thanks! I appreciate it!


----------



## JMRQ (Oct 27, 2010)

I got an email from Bulk Nutrition saying they have Jack3d on a good sale now

Bulk Nutrition - USP Labs Jack3d at discount prices!

I'm taking it currently and I like it - no fillers, no carbs


----------



## juggernaut (Oct 28, 2010)

JMRQ said:


> I got an email from Bulk Nutrition saying they have Jack3d on a good sale now
> 
> Bulk Nutrition - USP Labs Jack3d at discount prices!
> 
> I'm taking it currently and I like it - no fillers, no carbs



Ours is the same. We have less than one carb.


----------



## XYZ (Oct 28, 2010)

Adamr said:


> Hi, I am looking for some good pre-workout supplements, preferrably something with a fat burner & maybe a Testosterone booster.
> 
> I currently train 3-4 times per week and supplement with 4 scoops of Whey Isolate per day.
> 
> ...


 

ECA.  The least expensive by far and better than everything else.


----------



## Adamr (Nov 1, 2010)

I have since changed my mind about Jack3d after doing some homework on the net.

I have instead gone for the following to add to my whey supplement:

Optimum Health Creatine Monohydrate 
&
Primaforce ZMA caps

If anyone else has used either of these please let me know your experiences.
We'll see how that goes....


----------



## OutWhey (Nov 1, 2010)

I really enjoy N2KTS. It is the most insane and intense pre workout I have ever taken and I have yet to become immune to it; been taking one scoop since is started.


----------



## vortrit (Nov 1, 2010)

theCaptn' said:


> drink coffee and jizz for a test booster



lawl!


----------



## chocolatemilk (Nov 2, 2010)

N2KTS for me too... the new one coming out looks interesting as well


----------



## aussie1 (Nov 3, 2010)

caffeine + zma or sleep


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 3, 2010)

ZMA...they still sell that trash??


----------



## OutWhey (Nov 3, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> ZMA...they still sell that trash??


 Believe it or not, a member at the gym told me " Dude, you have got the try ZMA! I have been taking it for 2 weeks and I have never felt better and benched as much!"

My response. " Uh, okay"


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 3, 2010)

Conrad415 said:


> Believe it or not, a member at the gym told me " Dude, you have got the try ZMA! I have been taking it for 2 weeks and I have never felt better and benched as much!"
> 
> My response. " Uh, okay"



gotta be the magnesium or the zinc. It made my cock 12 inches wider.


----------



## aussie1 (Nov 4, 2010)

aussie1 said:


> caffeine + zma or sleep


  lol yeh didnt see it say pre workout . . .  yeh just caffeine lol


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 4, 2010)

Any pre-workout stim, including the brand we produce, has caffeine. There are tons of research behind caffeine and how well it works as an ergogenic aid for training and performance. 
If you cant afford a quality pre-workout stim, use a type of caffeine tablet called caffeine anhydrous about an hour before training as well as some cheap arginine (about 5g).


----------



## Adamr (Nov 4, 2010)

Thanks Juggernaut, great advice.


----------



## gopro (Nov 4, 2010)

Adamr said:


> Hi, I am looking for some good pre-workout supplements, preferrably something with a fat burner & maybe a Testosterone booster.
> 
> I currently train 3-4 times per week and supplement with 4 scoops of Whey Isolate per day.
> 
> ...



AAEFX's K-Otic contains plenty of ingedients good for energy and fat burning, plus an herbal compound called TAXADROL that is a testosterone booster.


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 4, 2010)




----------



## juggernaut (Nov 4, 2010)

gopro said:


> AAEFX's K-Otic contains plenty of ingedients good for energy and fat burning, plus an herbal compound called TAXADROL that is a testosterone booster.



Can you describe what taxadrol is chemically? Because even though every single link on google on the first page (of searching this out on google) has a link relating or pertaining to taraxdrol (otherwise known as hidafolia) and goes to your company who sponsors you, there's no clearcut definition of what it is exactly. Just curious. 
And how has this been shown to actually be a test booster? Is it because "drol" is attached to the end?


----------



## aussie1 (Nov 4, 2010)

yeh you can buy caffeine tabs pretty cheap, also buying ingrediants seperate in bulk like argine(aakg) powder, creatine monohydrate, beta alanine n citrulline malate then mix together with gatorade or oj or sumthing, would get you way more servings then a pre workout supp


----------



## Built (Nov 4, 2010)

Interesting. Taxanes come from plants in the yew genus. The anticancer drug paclitaxel is made from a yew tree that's endogenous to British Columbia - I remember when that made the news here come to think of it. That particular yew is called Taxus brevifolia. My first thought was "cool, it works like an aromatase inhibitor" - but alas, no. Paclitaxel is a mitotic inhibitor - it prevents cell division. Yew plants are notoriously toxic. Taxanes are also immunostimulatory against neoplasms, which is interesting - but not from the perspective of testosterone production. 

This paper is interesting. Turns out Taxanes reduce inhibin B. Inhibins lower FSH, so with inhibin's reduction, FSH is elevated. There are other drugs which increase FSH - for example, clomiphene (Clomid). 

Perhaps this is the mechanism behind which this supplement works? 

As an aside, plants have naming conventions. Taxus Brevifolia means a yew (genus Taxus), with short leaves (the Latin root brevi gives us the English word "brief"). Meaning of Foliage - Meaning of Leaf Names

I cannot find anything that describes the meaning of "hidafolia". It appears to be a made-up word.


----------



## Built (Nov 4, 2010)

This is also interesting. The H2 blocker cimetidine (Tagamet) has also been shown to increase testosterone levels in men:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1402017/pdf/brjclinpharm00194-0036.pdf

*Table I Serum T levels before, during and after*
cimetidine therapy (mean + s.e. mean)
Before: 24.3 + 2.4(nmol/l) (700mg/dL)
During: 28.0 ± 2.3(nmol/l) (807 mg/dL)
After: 24.7 ± 2.3(nmol/l) (712 mg/dL)

It is a testicular toxicant. Note also that the elevated FSH seen in paclitaxel use is associated with gonadal damage.


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 5, 2010)

aussie1 said:


> yeh you can buy caffeine tabs pretty cheap, also buying ingrediants seperate in bulk like argine(aakg) powder, creatine monohydrate, beta alanine n citrulline malate then mix together with gatorade or oj or sumthing, would get you way more servings then a pre workout supp



You can go a step further and just use citruline with 5g of leucine pre and postworkout. Apparently this is a better combination as well. As far as the oj and gatorade are concerned, I'm not fond of carbs so that wouldnt work for me. I'm keto, so just to flavor it, I'd use Crystal Light to take the sourness away from the citruline. 
And yes, I agree that if you were to concoct a pre-workout stim, it is cheaper to do it that way in the long run, but several people just cant afford the whole cost initially.


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 5, 2010)

cavtrooper96 said:


> I DONT recommend NO Explode



Several of my clients complained about a cough and jitters. The reason why we put a lower dose of caffeine was to keep the energy prolonged, yet not over-stimulating to where you cant even maintain the workout.


----------



## Adamr (Nov 5, 2010)

While I was in Tesco the other day I picked up some caffeine/Glucose tablets (50mg of caffeine - 130mg of dextrose monohydrate) 30 tabs for £1.30.... will give them a go.

The ZMA & Creatine arrived yesterday so I'm cuddently doing the loading phase, the packet of Optimum Health creatine says 1 teaspoon 4 times a day for 5 days then 1 serving twice a day after that. Can someone explain the reasons for the 'Loading phase'? (I'm new to supplements as you may guess)

thnx


----------



## Built (Nov 5, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> Several of my clients complained about a cough and jitters. The reason why we put a lower dose of caffeine was to keep the energy prolonged, yet not over-stimulating to where you cant even maintain the workout.



Besides, if you WANT more caffeine, you can always just top it up. 

To me caffeine's like salt - I'd rather have a dish undersalted than oversalted. I can always add more.


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 5, 2010)

Built said:


> Besides, if you WANT more caffeine, you can always just top it up.
> 
> To me caffeine's like salt - I'd rather have a dish undersalted than oversalted. I can always add more.



Which is why we didnt include it!


----------



## Built (Nov 5, 2010)

Exactly. 

I respect intelligent design.


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 5, 2010)

Built said:


> Exactly.
> 
> I respect intelligent design.



and i respect intelligent hot chicks with a great butt and nice cans.


----------



## gopro (Nov 6, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> Can you describe what taxadrol is chemically? Because even though every single link on google on the first page (of searching this out on google) has a link relating or pertaining to taraxdrol (otherwise known as hidafolia) and goes to your company who sponsors you, there's no clearcut definition of what it is exactly. Just curious.
> And how has this been shown to actually be a test booster? Is it because "drol" is attached to the end?



This would be a question for Jeff Golini, who has been researching and testing this compound for years.

As for the "drol," obviously this is just a "catchy name." Although I think we are changing it.

It seems to work through increases in LH, but he is still researching further on all mechanisms. 

All I can tell you for SURE is that it is effective, as blood work has shown over and over with dozens of testers (side note: _Flex Wheeler has been able to get off all TRT and just use Test Charge, mentioned below, to keep his levels in the mid-normal range after his years of abuse of steroids left him at around a level of 70-80_).

That said, the Taxadrol in the pre-workout in K-Otic is only there for a quick, transient rise in test to help with aggression. The product Test Charge is an actual "test-booster" product.

As I get more info on Taxadrol (Jeff's specific research, etc) I will certainly share it.


----------



## Built (Nov 6, 2010)

For now Eric I'll be satisfied with knowing which species of yew this particular plant is.


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 6, 2010)

gopro said:


> (side note: _Flex Wheeler has been able to get off all TRT and just use Test Charge, mentioned below, to keep his levels in the mid-normal range after his years of abuse of steroids left him at around a level of 70-80_).



This is too easy to ridicule so I'm going to take the higher road. Thanks for the "explanation" Mr. Bosr.


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 6, 2010)

Built said:


> For now Eric I'll be satisfied with knowing which species of yew this particular plant is.



I also enjoy the cannabis species and find it quite effective in fucking me up quite well. Oh, and research proves that it *ACTUALLY* works.


----------



## gopro (Nov 7, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> This is too easy to ridicule so I'm going to take the higher road. Thanks for the "explanation" Mr. Bosr.



#1...spell my name correctly b/c you do know exactly how it is spelled.

#2...do not even make the assumption a product works or does not work unless you have personally tried it.

#3...there is nothing to ridicule about that statement about Flex at all. As a former major steroid user he completely shut down his production of testosterone and had no choice but to go onto TRT. When Jeff began working with Test Charge he asked Flex to go off TRT and let his levels bottom out once again. Doing bloodwork all along Flex's test levels went from a level of 70-80 to between 400-500 and he is able to keep it there by regularly cycling TC. This is just fact. In addition, Flex was trying to have another child with his wife while on TRT and was unsuccessful. Shortly after he began using Test Charge his did in fact successfully get his wife pregnant. Again, just a fact.

(Note: others who have tested TC and had bloodwork done have had increases of up to 300% in natural test production...fact, not fiction)

If you would for once in your life pull yourself out of your negativity, stop your personal issues with me, and open you mind just slightly, you may just realize that there are some products produced on the market that actually do what they say they do. AAEFX does their due diligence on everything, and make sure what they produce a) WORKS, b) IS SAFE.

I will also take the high road here and leave it at that.


----------



## gopro (Nov 7, 2010)

Built said:


> For now Eric I'll be satisfied with knowing which species of yew this particular plant is.



As for you, I will ask this question so you can pursue your "scientific research" into the matter. I know this has become quite important for you and Juggernaut.


----------



## Built (Nov 7, 2010)

gopro said:


> As for you, I will ask this question so you can pursue your "scientific research" into the matter. I know this has become quite important for you and Juggernaut.


That'll be swell. Thanks.


----------



## twarrior (Nov 7, 2010)

theCaptn' said:


> Bronk-aid and caffine tabs from fucking walmart



I've never seen a fucking Walmart?? Where are those at I've only seen regular Walmart or Super Walmart where I'm at.


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 7, 2010)

gopro said:


> #1...spell my name correctly b/c you do know exactly how it is spelled.
> 
> #2...do not even make the assumption a product works or does not work unless you have personally tried it.
> 
> ...



#2-3) Wow, did someone help you write that?
#4) Pertaining to #1, I just really dont give a shit how you spell your name.


----------



## OutWhey (Nov 7, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> gotta be the magnesium or the zinc. It made my cock 12 inches wider.


 12" wider and 6" longer I bet


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 7, 2010)

yes!


----------



## Built (Nov 7, 2010)

If your supplement company does its due diligence Eric, I'm sure they'll have no trouble letting you know the name of the plant used for this supplement. 

My concern here isn't that your supplement doesn't stimulate a transient increase in testosterone - but rather, the means through which it does so. In the case of Paclitaxel, the rise in FSH is consistent with the testicular damage which occurs with its use. As gonadal damage lowers testosterone output, FSH rises to stimulate the testes, to produce more testosterone. As testicular damage increases, FSH fails to elicit a result - and hence, testosterone drops. An aromatase inhibitor taken at this time would indeed help elevate testosterone levels - at first. With less testosterone being aromatized, more will remain in the bloodstream - again, for a while. Continued use of paclitaxel causes irreversible gonadal harm. 

My hope is that the species of yew used in this test booster has a different effect. 

I look forward to reading more on the subject.


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 7, 2010)

Built said:


> If your supplement company does its due diligence Eric, I'm sure they'll have no trouble letting you know the name of the plant used for this supplement.
> 
> My concern here isn't that your supplement doesn't stimulate a transient increase in testosterone - but rather, the means through which it does so. In the case of Paclitaxel, the rise in FSH is consistent with the testicular damage which occurs with its use. As gonadal damage lowers testosterone output, FSH rises to stimulate the testes, to produce more testosterone. As testicular damage increases, FSH fails to elicit a result - and hence, testosterone drops. An aromatase inhibitor taken at this time would indeed help elevate testosterone levels - at first. With less testosterone being aromatized, more will remain in the bloodstream - again, for a while. *Continued use of paclitaxel causes irreversible gonadal harm. *
> 
> ...


Why would they even consider this "thing" for a supplement that can hurt your nuts? I cant understand it, and wheres the logic? And why is this company so secretive about what this crap really is?


----------



## Built (Nov 7, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> Why would they even consider this "thing" for a supplement that can hurt your nuts? I cant understand it, and wheres the logic? And why is this company so secretive about what this crap really is?



Now, let's be fair here. We don't know which plant this is. Let's wait for Eric to get that information for us. 

As an aside, I wonder what Mr. Wheeler's HRT protocol looked like before he went off, and how long he had been off HRT before starting on this supplement. I know a lot of guys who ran boatloads of gear back in the day, and most of 'em were able to get their nuts back just by waiting long enough. It's kinda like folk-remedies for the common cold. Use 'em, and the cold clears up in seven days. Don't, and it'll go away in a week.


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 7, 2010)

Built said:


> *Now, let's be fair here. We don't know which plant this is. Let's wait for Eric to get that information for us. *


Good point.




Built said:


> As an aside, I wonder what Mr. Wheeler's HRT protocol looked like before he went off, and how long he had been off HRT before starting on this supplement. I know a lot of guys who ran boatloads of gear back in the day, and most of 'em were able to get their nuts back just by waiting long enough. It's kinda like folk-remedies for the common cold. Use 'em, and the cold clears up in seven days. Don't, and it'll go away in a week.



 LOL


----------



## gopro (Nov 8, 2010)

I will definitely continue answering to Built, who has a modicum of respect, and actually has MY respect.

But juggernaut, I will no longer communicate directly with you, so please do not direct any more questions/comments at me...at least ones you want a response to.

Built: I have asked the question to Jeff. I do know that this plant type is currently exclusive to AAP (his company), not AAEFX (just yet), so I do not know if there is any reason he is being somewhat "tight-lipped."


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 8, 2010)

gopro said:


> But juggernaut, I will no longer communicate directly with you, so please do not direct any more questions/comments at me...at least ones you want a response to.



It's okay. You dont offer anything of use anyway. 

Back to topic.


----------



## gopro (Nov 9, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> It's okay. You dont offer anything of use anyway.
> 
> Back to topic.



...and you are absoutely *nothing *in this industry anyway, so...


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 9, 2010)

gopro said:


> ...and you are absoutely *nothing *in this industry anyway, so...



So, where's that information we've been waiting on?


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 9, 2010)

gopro said:


> But juggernaut, I will no longer communicate directly with you, so please do not direct any more questions/comments at me...at least ones you want a response to.



It's so easy.


----------



## gopro (Nov 10, 2010)

Built,

I put the question into Jeff for you. I know that Taxadrol is currently patent pending, so I am not sure how much he will/can offer, but hopefully he WILL give me something of value to you for your research.


----------



## blergs. (Nov 10, 2010)

I thought i posted in this one already but i guess not i cant see my post.
I would rec a couple things:
N2KTS 1000% if you can get it.
ASGT
ADDERLLIN
and lastly, just some pure caffein (200-300mg) with 1g taurine, 1g ALCAR.
 one of these are nice.
I LOVED the N2KTS from NTBM thow above all and would highly rec it, if your ok with stims that is.

for test boosting HCGenerate and some D-aspartic acid (3-4g ed 4wks on 1-2wks off repeat a couple times)


----------



## Norton1977 (Nov 10, 2010)

cavtrooper96 said:


> I DONT recommend NO Explode


 
Ahh, I've just bought NE online..

Why don't you recommend it?


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 10, 2010)

Norton1977 said:


> Ahh, I've just bought NE online..
> 
> Why don't you recommend it?



I've had several clients and members complain that there is a cough and the jitters from the amount of caffeine they put in it is pretty high. I've never tried it myself, but that was kind of a turnoff in itself. 
Again, best thing to do is try some caffeine anhydrous with 5g of arginine. See how it works. Also, use some creatine mono-as it THE only true substance related to creatine used in lab studies. There are other types, but there is something to be said about lab testing with the same product over and over, and showing that it does in fact work.


----------



## DIVINITUS (Nov 10, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> Any pre-workout stim, including the brand we produce, has caffeine. There are tons of research behind caffeine and how well it works as an ergogenic aid for training and performance.
> If you cant afford a quality pre-workout stim, use a type of caffeine tablet called caffeine anhydrous about an hour before training as well as some cheap arginine (about 5g).



Running something similar now,   One 200mg Caffeine pill, 1 serving CEE and 1 serving Nitro4 (both ironmaglabs stuff) about 45 minutes before lifting and I feel fantastic during my workouts.


----------



## OutWhey (Nov 10, 2010)

thenightmare21 said:


> N2KTS for sure! needto is so confident in it pop by anabolic minds hes giving away 100 canisters to the first 100 people who want to test it and see what the buzz is about


 N2KTS is the *only *pre-workout that I have not becomes ammuned too and I still get jacked on it.


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 11, 2010)

DIVINITUS said:


> Running something similar now,   One 200mg Caffeine pill, 1 serving CEE and 1 serving Nitro4 (both ironmaglabs stuff) about 45 minutes before lifting and I feel fantastic during my workouts.



I've stuck with creatine mono ever since it came out from the old school EAS brand with the shitloads of dextrose to now using strictly monohydrate in all of our products. It works and it's damn cheap and abundant.


----------



## theCaptn' (Nov 11, 2010)

gopro said:


> ...and you are absoutely *nothing *in this industry anyway, so...


 
lol, and you are???


----------



## Built (Nov 12, 2010)

gopro said:


> Built,
> 
> I put the question into Jeff for you. I know that Taxadrol is currently patent pending, so I am not sure how much he will/can offer, but hopefully he WILL give me something of value to you for your research.



Thank you. I'm sure I'm not the only person who likes to know what's in whatever pill it is that I'm swallowing.


----------



## gopro (Nov 12, 2010)

theCaptn' said:


> lol, and you are???



LOL...I am nothing really...just a pro bber, author of 4 books, columnist for 3 mags, have about 100 published articles, been on the cover of an international magazine, been in about 30 product ads, have worked with several top supplement companies, developed 2 training systems used world wide, co-host a radio show with Jose Antonio whenever he needs me, am a judge and an advisory board member in the NGA, train athletes/bodybuilders from all over the globe, have the #1 selling DVD at Iron Man for the last year and a half...getting tired...will stop there 

And, I have been very blessed with all of it and appreciate everything I have done and every opportunity I have had to make a wonderful living from and give back to this industry : )


----------



## gopro (Nov 12, 2010)

Built said:


> Thank you. I'm sure I'm not the only person who likes to know what's in whatever pill it is that I'm swallowing.



I am sure you scrutinize EVERY supplement that comes out like this.

But I have bad news...Jeff is not giving me much because it is a patent pending compound and it is 100% exclusive to AAP (so he is being quite protective). So, your only recourse is to not take it so you do not have to worry about anything : )

That said...I am going to continue to grill him further about specifics. Also, you should know that the product has been safety tested for the last 2 years with not one single adverse event.


----------



## Built (Nov 12, 2010)

I don't scrutinize all supplements like this. Only the ones with mysterious ingredients and grandiose claims. 

Seriously, this un-named variety of yew makes me nervous because of the known chemotheraputic effect due the British Columbian yew. If this stuff elicits its effect through a similar path, that is to say, through gonadal damage, I'm sure your customers would be just as interested to know the name of the plant. 

Thanks for the update.


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 12, 2010)

gopro said:


> I am sure you scrutinize EVERY supplement that comes out like this.
> 
> But I have bad news...Jeff is not giving me much because it is a patent pending compound and it is 100% exclusive to AAP (so he is being quite protective). So, your only recourse is to not take it so you do not have to worry about anything : )
> 
> That said...I am going to continue to grill him further about specifics. Also, you should know that the product has been safety tested for the last 2 years with not one single adverse event.



I see. So is this patent for the actual processing of this wonder ingredient or the product itself? Because, 
*"Companies should also be responsible when using the term because they don???t have the authority to use it for fraudulent means and no real patent application was actually filed. People caught doing this would be given appropriate punishments such as payment of fines."*
You might want to read this

And you keep on "grilling" because you need to bite the hand of the company that feeds you. That's good business practice.


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 12, 2010)

Built said:


> I don't scrutinize all supplements like this. Only the ones with mysterious ingredients and grandiose claims.
> 
> Seriously, this un-named variety of yew makes me nervous because of the known chemotheraputic effect due the British Columbian yew. If this stuff elicits its effect through a similar path, that is to say, through* gonadal damage*, I'm sure your customers would be just as interested to know the name of the plant.
> 
> Thanks for the update.


----------



## tjsulli (Nov 12, 2010)

Buy AAKG at deep discount. Save up to 75% on pharmaceutical l-arginine-alpha ketoglutarate. Buy factory direct at below wholesale cost. imo best prework out sup only down flaw is that its caffeine free and has no flavor
NutraBio caffeine anhydrous USP.


----------



## JMRQ (Nov 12, 2010)

Built said:


> Thank you. I'm sure I'm not the only person who likes to know what's in whatever pill it is that I'm swallowing.



I agree with you Built...


----------



## gopro (Nov 14, 2010)

Built said:


> I don't scrutinize all supplements like this. Only the ones with mysterious ingredients and grandiose claims.
> 
> Seriously, this un-named variety of yew makes me nervous because of the known chemotheraputic effect due the British Columbian yew. If this stuff elicits its effect through a similar path, that is to say, through gonadal damage, I'm sure your customers would be just as interested to know the name of the plant.
> 
> Thanks for the update.



It is apparent to me that since the actual compound hidafolia (Taxadrol) is currently patent pending, that I am not going to be given too many specifics about it for obvious reasons.

But for you specifically Built, I want to provide you with some information you may not know about ALL AMERICAN PHARMACEUTICAL. These points should give you some interesting insight into the company I represent:


*AAP just became certified by *Informed-Choice.* This organization is the _strictest yet._ As of right now, *only 4 *have been certified. 2 oversees and 2 here in the states, AAP being one of them. _Most don???t even make it through the paperwork!_

*AAP received a GRANT from the State of Montana in 2008 for research and commercialization of Kre-Celazine. And two grants received from the State of Montana for research and commercialization of Lyzyme 5. Both will be for our products.

*AAP have become a registered USDA Certified Facility, and were inspected twice this year under new the cGMP regulations (and passed both times with flying colors).

*AAP is getting a DEA Testing license to handle controlled substances to be used for standards when testing with their new GC-MS.

*AAP has been awarded a *5-year government testing and development contract* to help validate a new vaccine for animals. The tests will use NIR.

Research and see what (if ANY) other supplement companies out there can say these things...and this is *just a few *interesting facts about EFX/AAP.


----------



## Built (Nov 14, 2010)

That's cool. There really needs to be a regulatory body for supplements. Currently it's a free-for-all. 

I'll be interested to read more about the yew plant being used.


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 14, 2010)

We're glad your company that sponsors you are humanitarians. But all supplement companies are undergoing this same scrutiny, including mine and I welcome it. It makes for a better industry. 
Still patent pending is still just a word. And in that case, your sponsors are not being very honest with what they're saying because this stuff has a base of research somewhere. It's just misleading that all google searches generally point to your company's website. It can and probably is another HMB scam for all we know.


----------



## gopro (Nov 15, 2010)

Built said:


> That's cool. There really needs to be a regulatory body for supplements. Currently it's a free-for-all.
> 
> I'll be interested to read more about the yew plant being used.



AAP operates on the same level as some of the biggest pharmaceutical companies in the world. Their facility and practices from A-Z are such that if they wanted to begin manufacturing drugs tomorrow, they would be able to.

As for the specifics about the plant being used, I am rather sure it is hush hush because there IS a very specific "yew" involved that has the properties that make it 1) safe for use, and 2) effective in the manner proposed. AAP DOES have a right to protect themselves if they are working with something exclusive to them that they do not want other companies copying.

To this day nobody ACTUALLY knows the process by which AAP brings the PH of creatine monohydrate to 12, even though the patent mentions baking soda and soda ash. Even the patent is not actually reflective of the actual KA product, as there is no baking soda, soda ash, bisodium carbonate, etc contained in it. The patent is written as such to protect the invention (whether one believes in it or not).

But like I said Built...if/when I do get more specifics I will let you in on them!


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 15, 2010)

riiiight


----------



## gopro (Nov 16, 2010)

Some people are *born* assholes.

Some *become* assholes.

The worst are those that *die *assholes.

For the rest of us...we need to *ignore* assholes


----------



## juggernaut (Nov 16, 2010)

gopro said:


> Some people are *born* assholes.
> 
> Some *become* assholes.
> 
> ...



Good thing you're just a jerkoff, so I dont have to guess which you are.


----------



## pwloiacano (Nov 16, 2010)

For the forum group.  I have tried a product that is giving me surprising results.

Gaspari Nutrition - Plasma-Jet.  This is in pill form and is designed to be taken 1-2 hours before you work out.

I also stack this with a pre-workout shake of Super-Pump and 25G Myofusion protein.  Both also by Gaspari.  40 minutes before workout.

The results have been unbelieveable!  I have all kinds of extra energy, endurance, and am getting awesome pumps.

I know that everyone is different and certain things work better for certain people.

This is really working for me and well worth trying.


----------



## JimWratt (Dec 7, 2010)

*Rather disappointed in you guys*



juggernaut said:


> Good thing you're just a jerkoff, so I dont have to guess which you are.



Hmm, this was to be my first post introducing myself but i think i will also make it may last. I had been following some good discussions about new products here and thought i would join to up to have some input but suddenly this forum has degenerated downwards into a slanging match! i am really disappointed that there are such closed minded people on here, juggernaut stands out as the best example! I have to say i am most unimpressed by juggernaut who seems to think he is someone others should listen to but so far all i have seen flowing from his fingers is crap. And it strikes me juggernaut (or is it jerk-a-nought) should know what a jerkoff or an asshole looks like from his own bathroom mirror! 

gopro, sad to see you allowing yourself to be dragged down to juggernaut's level, you know what you get covered in when you wrestle with lowly animals. Lift your game back above the gutter level jerk-a-nought has dragged you down to. 

So i will not partake in any more of this nonsense other than to challenge juggernaut jerk-a-nought to actually come up with something intelligent and offer the forum something other than his own uninformed and ill-conceived opinions, maybe even something constructive (if he knows what that means, that is...). 

Now go ahead ban me, i am bailing out anyway, i don't want more of my day ruined by the rubbish written by such narrow a minded idiot.


----------



## JimWratt (Dec 7, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> We're glad your company that sponsors you are humanitarians. But all supplement companies are undergoing this same scrutiny, including mine and I welcome it. It makes for a better industry.
> Still patent pending is still just a word. And in that case, your sponsors are not being very honest with what they're saying because this stuff has a base of research somewhere. It's just misleading that all google searches generally point to your company's website. It can and probably is another HMB scam for all we know.



Your blatant display of profound ignorance just shows you know nothing about filing patent applications or doing proper research, moron! 

He are my final words on this subject and some sound advice to you all, if you can't say something intelligent and constructive, don't say anything!


----------



## JimWratt (Dec 7, 2010)

ZOIKS! just may be the MOST intelligent thing I have see you post!


----------



## juggernaut (Dec 7, 2010)

Did you and gobro conspire to execute these posts together? It's kind of similar to the same silly drivel he posts, complete with cutesy icons emphasizing useless points.


----------



## juggernaut (Jan 9, 2011)

gopro said:


> But like I said Built...if/when I do get more specifics I will let you in on them!



Still waiting on those specifics....


----------



## Built (Jan 9, 2011)

Indeed - thanks for bumping this, juggs. I wonder what the holdup is? Is it legal to sell a product without identifying the active ingredient?


----------



## juggernaut (Jan 10, 2011)

Built said:


> Indeed - thanks for bumping this, juggs. I wonder what the holdup is? Is it legal to sell a product without identifying the active ingredient?



Actually this is why the supplement industry is going through a huge change right now. The GMP is making a huge push to get the bullshitters out and really put things in that are credible and worthy of being called "supplemental". See it all here: NSF International : Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP)


----------



## gopro (Jan 10, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> Actually this is why the supplement industry is going through a huge change right now. The GMP is making a huge push to get the bullshitters out and really put things in that are credible and worthy of being called "supplemental". See it all here: NSF International : Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP)



AAEFX passes GMP standards every time with flying colors and on top of this also:

*New certification ensures contaminant free production:*

Billings, Mont., December 16, 2010 ??? All American Pharmaceutical (AAP) announced today that its Billings facility received certification as an Informed-Choice manufacturer. The Informed-Choice certification ensures that the supplements produced within the AAP facility are manufactured to strict FDA cGMP standards and are contaminant free through regular testing for prohibited substances???steroids and stimulants???following the World Anti-Doping Agency guidelines. Supplements, produced in AAP???s 110,000 square foot, state-of-the-art facility, are subjected to rigorous quality assurance checks to ensure authenticity, safety, potency and purity. 

???As a contract manufacturer of nutritional supplements, we want our customers and our customers??? customers to have complete faith in the quality of our products,??? explains Jeff Golini, AAP executive scientist. ???We???ve always gone above and beyond minimum standards of quality, and now we have third-party verification of our exacting processes through the INFORMED-CHOICE certification.??? Nutritional supplement companies need to know that the contract manufacturing facility they are using has appropriate quality controls in place to minimize the risk of cross contamination between ingredients. 

Becoming an INFORMED-CHOICE certified facility is a three-stage process that begins with a quality audit???and a preregistration swabbing of the facility to verify that it is contaminant free. The final stage is post-registration swabbing, which is ongoing with regular site visits every six months to ensure continued compliance. ???Our goal is zero tolerance for inadvertent contaminants,??? says Golini. ???The only way to ensure this is through consistent quality measures and regular testing. An added benefit of our INFORMED-CHOICE certification is that it streamlines the registration process for our customers to use the INFORMED-CHOICE logo on their finished products that we???ve manufactured. The INFORMED-CHOICE logo on product packaging gives consumers confidence and lets them know instantly that the product they are buying is what it???s meant to be.???

About INFORMED-CHOICE

The INFORMED-CHOICE certification program was established in 2007 by one of the world???s leading doping control laboratories, HFL Sport Science. Although HFL has been testing supplements since 2002, it became clear that there was a need for a comprehensive certification program that not only tested products for banned substances, but also ensured they were manufactured in qualified facilities that met FDA GMP standards.

INFORMED-CHOICE is a voluntary supplement testing and certification program that ensures users that products carrying the INFORMED-CHOICE logo are manufactured to strict GMP standards and regularly tested for substances prohibited in sport. Responsible supplement companies have made INFORMED-CHOICE part of their existing quality assurance systems to ensure their products are safer for athletes to use. For more information on INFORMED-CHOICE, go to Home | Informed Choice

About AAP

Founded in 1984, All American Pharmaceutical is a leading manufacturer of dietary, food and nutritional supplements. We specialize in producing private label and custom formulations for manufacturers ranging from general health and sports nutrition to anti-aging and food products. All American Pharmaceutical has the capability to produce liquid, capsule, powder and tablet products from concept through to finished packaging. We are also the exclusive manufacturer of the branded ingredients: Kre-Alkalyn®, Kre-Celazine®, KarboLyn®, ProtaLyn® and Lyzme5®???with many more to come. For more information, please visit All American Pharmaceutical

**AAP is the exclusive manufacturer for All American EFX Sports products.


Contact: Joe Archer, Vice President of Sales and Marketing
All American Pharmaceutical & Natural Foods Corporation
2376 Main Street, Billings, MT 59105 USA
406-245-5793
All American Pharmaceutical
The Official Website of Kre-Alkalyn®
Kre-Crelazine® "for joint flexibility & pain relief"

*So, there is absolutely nothing negative that anyone could say about the practices of AAP/AAEFX.*


----------



## gopro (Jan 10, 2011)

Built said:


> Indeed - thanks for bumping this, juggs. I wonder what the holdup is? Is it legal to sell a product without identifying the active ingredient?



You can have Jeff's email at AAP and ask him anything you want. Would you like that? He can reveal whatever it is duty to reveal to you.


----------



## juggernaut (Jan 10, 2011)

Built said:


> Indeed - thanks for bumping this, juggs. I wonder what the holdup is? Is it legal to sell a product without identifying the active ingredient?



I'm still waiting for "specifics" about the extrapolation of that wonder ingredient we've been discussing for (what is it, three months now without an answer)? 

I didn't/don't care or need the company's views or their self-promoting achievements.


----------



## Built (Jan 10, 2011)

That'd work, thanks.


----------



## gopro (Jan 11, 2011)

Built said:


> That'd work, thanks.



Glad to be of service. Ck your PM box.


----------



## juggernaut (Jan 11, 2011)

gopro said:


> Glad to be of service. Ck your PM box.



Yes thanks. It only took 3 months.


----------



## bodydwl (Jan 11, 2011)

For a pre workout with a test booster and stims try Speed Xtreme or Napalm these two are pretty good napalm has a little more test boost ability Speed Xtreme will have more stims and cutting agents.


----------



## gopro (Jan 12, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> Yes thanks. It only took 3 months.



You really are an angry little man aren't you?


----------



## juggernaut (Jan 12, 2011)

gopro said:


> You really are an angry little man aren't you?



No and we went over this several times. I just don't like you. You're a douche.
No use in beating a dead horse, right?


----------



## gopro (Jan 12, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> No and we went over this several times. I just don't like you. You're a douche.
> No use in beating a dead horse, right?



LOL...I love people like you buddy. Your hatred drives me to greater and greater levels of success in this industry. Hey, did you get my (along with Rick Collins and James Villepigue) new book? Selling like hot cakes! It could teach you a few things maybe you can use!


----------



## juggernaut (Jan 12, 2011)

gopro said:


> LOL...I love men



Fixed. Go away goof.


----------



## Built (Jan 12, 2011)

I'm reading the PDFs Jeff Golini sent me right now.


----------



## gopro (Jan 12, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> Fixed. Go away goof.



You see, I DO sense anger.

I mean...your dislike for me obviously makes you NOT want to see me be successful in this industry, and since I continually become MORE successful, that likely angers you. That only makes sense. And when you see what I have in store for 2011, you may just pull the hair out of your head!


----------



## gopro (Jan 12, 2011)

Built said:


> I'm reading the PDFs Jeff Golini sent me right now.



Glad he got back with you!


----------



## Arnold (Jan 12, 2011)

you are *all* acting childishly and ruining what could potentially be a good thread and discussion with all of the insults and BS, aren't all of you around 35-40 years old? 

seriously, *everyone* please act your age!


----------



## gopro (Jan 12, 2011)

Prince said:


> you are *all* acting childishly and ruining what could potentially be a good thread and discussion with all of the insults and BS, aren't all of you around 35-40 years old?
> 
> seriously, *everyone* please act your age!



This is true, LOL. But the problem is I simply cannot post anything without being insulted by juggernaut. I honestly would never even address him if he would do the same, but he cannot help himself. His anger and hatred are just that strong. Very unfortunate.


----------



## juggernaut (Jan 12, 2011)

Prince said:


> you are *all* acting childishly and ruining what could potentially be a good thread and discussion with all of the insults and BS, aren't all of you around 35-40 years old?
> 
> seriously, *everyone* please act your age!



Done Prince. Sorry.


----------



## gopro (Jan 12, 2011)

Now - back to your regularly scheduled programming...


----------



## Arnold (Jan 12, 2011)

gopro said:


> This is true, LOL. But the problem is I simply cannot post anything without being insulted by juggernaut. I honestly would never even address him if he would do the same, but he cannot help himself. His anger and hatred are just that strong. Very unfortunate.



I think you both should just ignore each other, in fact there is a feature where you can put another member on your ignore list and you will not see their posts. 

Go here: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist


----------



## needtogetaas (Jan 19, 2011)

AAAAAH what the hell Lets lighten the mood up in this thread. WHo wants to try some N2KTS??? 

I got 3 full bottles to give away for some testers in this thread. POst up and then also remember to send me a pm to remind me you would like to try the N2KTS. THen you can post your review of the product here in this thread. N2KTS I focuse on energy,drive, and focus with a good muscle pump as a side dish. Lots of users also get a nice flush from it as well. TOss in youe lot to try a free sample guys. Cant wait to hear from all of you!!!!!


----------



## OutWhey (Jan 19, 2011)

needtogetaas said:


> AAAAAH what the hell Lets lighten the mood up in this thread. WHo wants to try some N2KTS???
> 
> I got 3 full bottles to give away for some testers in this thread. POst up and then also remember to send me a pm to remind me you would like to try the N2KTS. THen you can post your review of the product here in this thread. N2KTS I focuse on energy,drive, and focus with a good muscle pump as a side dish. Lots of users also get a nice flush from it as well. TOss in youe lot to try a free sample guys. Cant wait to hear from all of you!!!!!


 I bet your PM box is filling up..lol...Wish I would have not of just ordered my tub..oh well


----------



## needtogetaas (Jan 23, 2011)

OutWhey said:


> I bet your PM box is filling up..lol...Wish I would have not of just ordered my tub..oh well


Still got a few more bottles I can give away. For any members who want to give it a shot.


----------



## mich29 (Jan 23, 2011)

needtogetaas said:


> Still got a few more bottles I can give away. For any members who want to give it a shot.


 
wow great oport here.


----------



## Good Grip (Jan 23, 2011)

Ive got a bottle of unopened Jack3d I have yet to try. So far my own little mix is working out really well: Creapure creatine, Beta-alanine, and MAP. Then post workout I use some Ibcaa's.


----------



## flash89912 (Jan 24, 2011)

Hmm hows is N2KTS any different from jack3d? seems to contain basically the same ingredients...except N2KTS includes Fibersol2. Just wondering...I like Need2Slin...finally tried it


----------



## ryansm (Jan 24, 2011)

flash89912 said:


> Hmm hows is N2KTS any different from jack3d? seems to contain basically the same ingredients...except N2KTS includes Fibersol2. Just wondering...I like Need2Slin...finally tried it



Same ingredients from what I can tell


----------



## Good Grip (Jan 24, 2011)

Im pretty sensitive to stims, do you think Jack3d is still worth a try? Sometimes I just like coffee before a workout. Just plain black coffee, but I heard it damages creatine.


----------



## Built (Jan 24, 2011)

Good Grip said:


> Im pretty sensitive to stims, do you think Jack3d is still worth a try? Sometimes I just like coffee before a workout. Just plain black coffee, but *I heard it damages creatine*.


 
Be happy: you heard wrong.


----------



## DarkHorse (Jan 24, 2011)

Good Grip said:


> Im pretty sensitive to stims, do you think Jack3d is still worth a try? Sometimes I just like coffee before a workout. Just plain black coffee, but I heard it damages creatine.


 
Give it a try, I like Jack3d. Some times I will take just 1/2 to 3/4 of a scoop and that will get me going with no worries of the jitters or insomnia.


----------



## Good Grip (Jan 26, 2011)

DarkHorse said:


> Give it a try, I like Jack3d. Some times I will take just 1/2 to 3/4 of a scoop and that will get me going with no worries of the jitters or insomnia.


 
Yeah I dont want to let a good supplement go to waste. I got a free bottle when I ordered usp labs modern bcaa's. I think when im done with Jack3d ill be using Premax, a stim free pre workout supp.


----------



## juggernaut (Jan 26, 2011)

We're getting a great response for our product All Out. Available here: Beyond Nutrition - ALL OUT (225 Grams) - $24.99 :: Beyond Nutrition :: Top Supplements Online


----------



## Gazhole (Jan 26, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> We're getting a great response for our product All Out. Available here: Beyond Nutrition - ALL OUT (225 Grams) - $24.99 :: Beyond Nutrition :: Top Supplements Online



+1 to this.

Not a huge user of supplements, as most people know, but i'm 100% behind the few that do work.

Currently taking this in conjunction with a lot of food on the 5/3/1 program and it's working great. Really helps during those tough rep-out sets.


----------



## BIGBLUECHEVELLE (Jan 26, 2011)

Ive been hearing a ton of hype on the N2KTS. I messaged needtogetass to see if he still had free tubs to give out. i want to feel what all the commotion is all about and kill some weights.


----------



## needtogetaas (Feb 18, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Same ingredients from what I can tell


Almost the same ingredents yes. Few different and also in very very different amounts. The effects are totally different. And if you do a net search you will find thousands ( Yes thousands) of people saying this. You may even catch the thread over on AM where I tossed a 100 units of it out for free. So you will see the reviews on that huge thread and all over that site too. However that is not the only place you will get posative feed back on it... Its all over the place.. 

 Anyone who buys a bottle and is not happy with it will get a refund no questions asked so its pretty damn easy to put my words to the test risk free. 
https://www.mrsupps.com/Catalog-Pre-Workout_4.aspx discount code needto10 will take 10% off the price and the shipping is 2-3 day priority mail for free. 

 I also have 2 more units I cane give out for people to try and give me a review.


----------



## DIVINITUS (Feb 18, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> I've stuck with creatine mono ever since it came out from the old school EAS brand with the shitloads of dextrose to now using strictly monohydrate in all of our products. It works and it's damn cheap and abundant.



Sucks, I would prefer to use mono...but it gives me cramps and farts!


----------



## juggernaut (Feb 19, 2011)

DIVINITUS said:


> Sucks, I would prefer to use mono...but it gives me cramps and farts!



Tell me something is it laced with anything added or just a simple combo of dextrose+oats and a scoop of whey?


----------



## gopro (Feb 19, 2011)

DIVINITUS said:


> Sucks, I would prefer to use mono...but it gives me cramps and farts!



CM also tears apart my stomach.


----------



## djm6464 (Feb 19, 2011)

needtogetaas said:


> Almost the same ingredents yes. Few different and also in very very different amounts. The effects are totally different. And if you do a net search you will find thousands ( Yes thousands) of people saying this. You may even catch the thread over on AM where I tossed a 100 units of it out for free. So you will see the reviews on that huge thread and all over that site too. However that is not the only place you will get posative feed back on it... Its all over the place..
> 
> Anyone who buys a bottle and is not happy with it will get a refund no questions asked so its pretty damn easy to put my words to the test risk free.
> https://www.mrsupps.com/Catalog-Pre-Workout_4.aspx discount code needto10 will take 10% off the price and the shipping is 2-3 day priority mail for free.
> ...




you still have em..... and willing to send it to canada.....iv used a few jack3d knockoffs, and none so far, even 1mr, are as good....seeing i should feel it right away, you'll get my review pretty quick

jack3d
1mr
musclespeed......those 3 seem to be the best 1,3 dimeth supps iv used thus var.....value wise muscle speed is actually better, tehy have a 3 for 2 promo that never ends


----------



## djm6464 (Feb 19, 2011)

gopro said:


> CM also tears apart my stomach.



x2 on both of those, creatine wise iv tried bulk stuff, kre, and so on.....con-cret has trumped everything, the crappy thing is its dbl the price of a kilo of mono, and will only go 24days, unless you are anorexic 

i never found cm did much to begin with, gplc/glycocarn has been alot better imo, altho again pricier


----------



## djm6464 (Feb 19, 2011)

Good Grip said:


> Yeah I dont want to let a good supplement go to waste. I got a free bottle when I ordered usp labs modern bcaa's. I think when im done with Jack3d ill be using Premax, a stim free pre workout supp.



nice plug there........actually the premax WAS good, worth its price tag...i dunno, which sucks cause id use it regularly if it wasnt for the way it goes down so fast

buying the map, glycocarn, n beta alanine seems to work as well

what are the extra benefits of the pemax vs my own concoction?


----------



## ryansm (Feb 19, 2011)

djm6464 said:


> x2 on both of those, creatine wise iv tried bulk stuff, kre, and so on.....con-cret has trumped everything, the crappy thing is its dbl the price of a kilo of mono, and will only go 24days, unless you are anorexic
> 
> i never found cm did much to begin with, gplc/glycocarn has been alot better imo, altho again pricier



Have you tried Creapure? I've heard of this along with bloat on other creatines but this is usually attributed to the pureness.


----------



## ryansm (Feb 19, 2011)

djm6464 said:


> nice plug there........actually the premax WAS good, worth its price tag...i dunno, which sucks cause id use it regularly if it wasnt for the way it goes down so fast
> 
> buying the map, glycocarn, n beta alanine seems to work as well
> 
> what are the extra benefits of the pemax vs my own concoction?



Ya that's the thing is the ingredients are all branded and highly effective yet expensive, but as far as performance goes it's amazing.


----------



## ryansm (Feb 19, 2011)

needtogetaas said:


> Almost the same ingredents yes. Few different and also in very very different amounts. The effects are totally different. And if you do a net search you will find thousands ( Yes thousands) of people saying this. You may even catch the thread over on AM where I tossed a 100 units of it out for free. So you will see the reviews on that huge thread and all over that site too. However that is not the only place you will get posative feed back on it... Its all over the place..
> 
> Anyone who buys a bottle and is not happy with it will get a refund no questions asked so its pretty damn easy to put my words to the test risk free.
> https://www.mrsupps.com/Catalog-Pre-Workout_4.aspx discount code needto10 will take 10% off the price and the shipping is 2-3 day priority mail for free.
> ...



I would take you up on this, but I cant handle 1,3 anymore from what I hear your product is effective.


----------



## Good Grip (Feb 23, 2011)

djm6464 said:


> nice plug there........actually the premax WAS good, worth its price tag...i dunno, which sucks cause id use it regularly if it wasnt for the way it goes down so fast
> 
> *buying the map, glycocarn, n beta alanine seems to work as well*
> 
> *what are the extra benefits of the pemax vs my own concoction*?


 
Premax has electrolytes and the convenience of having them pre-mixed. Id stick with your own bulk powder concoction if its suiting you well, its what I do most of the time.


----------



## nysmo (Feb 23, 2011)

Adamr said:


> Hi, I am looking for some good pre-workout supplements, preferrably something with a fat burner & maybe a Testosterone booster.
> 
> I currently train 3-4 times per week and supplement with 4 scoops of Whey Isolate per day.
> 
> ...




for months I am using 3 scoops pre workout jacked after that I used no explode and Altered State ... not change with any other pre workout ... I recommend it to all


----------



## Suspicious_Sean (Feb 23, 2011)

Red Bull


----------



## djm6464 (Feb 23, 2011)

Good Grip said:


> Premax has electrolytes and the convenience of having them pre-mixed. Id stick with your own bulk powder concoction if its suiting you well, its what I do most of the time.



ahhh, thanks big guy.......i rotate my concoctions anyway, out of boredom, i like trying new stuff, go back to old stuff ect....theres a few that are good, ill keep the premax in mind, next time my girl wants a fkn $100 cream, ill use it against her


----------



## Good Grip (Feb 24, 2011)

djm6464 said:


> ahhh, thanks big guy.......i rotate my concoctions anyway, out of boredom, i like trying new stuff, go back to old stuff ect....theres a few that are good, ill keep the premax in mind, next time my girl wants a fkn $100 cream, ill use it against her


 LOL! nice nice. Premax with Creapure and Beta-alanine is basically an all bulk powder formula anyways. I prefer to train early in the day so I dont need stims. If your looking for a something good stim wise, Heretostudy is trying out Lit from app nut.


----------



## ryansm (Feb 24, 2011)

I hear good things about lit-up and the company is liberal with their samples


----------



## Adamr (Mar 3, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> Any pre-workout stim, including the brand we produce, has caffeine. There are tons of research behind caffeine and how well it works as an ergogenic aid for training and performance.
> If you cant afford a quality pre-workout stim, use a type of caffeine tablet called caffeine anhydrous about an hour before training as well as some cheap arginine (about 5g).



can you tell me what the arginine does & what form it is best to take (caps, powder etc)

regards


----------



## tigger1 (Mar 4, 2011)

i use both no explode and on the smallest does o fest like a mad man!!  but i also use  superpumt250 and i seem to no fuck with my mind and heart as much and still gave me great results...just my opinion


----------



## Good Grip (Mar 5, 2011)

Adamr said:


> can you tell me what the arginine does & what form it is best to take (caps, powder etc)
> 
> regards


 
It relaxes the smooth muscle of your arteries translating into decreased blood pressure. In higher dosed it increases NO levels. Taken before workouts and bed will increase natural growth hormone. It also boosts immune system. 

If your looking for a real NO pump and performance enhancer, go with GPLC from Primordial. Gplc - Primordial Performance GlycoCarn increases nitric oxide (NO) levels.


----------



## Adamr (Mar 5, 2011)

I think I may get some then. I have looked on line and the dosages seem to vary a lot: from 350mg to 1200mg caps, what should I be looking at?


----------



## Good Grip (Mar 6, 2011)

Adamr said:


> I think I may get some then. I have looked on line and the dosages seem to vary a lot: from 350mg to 1200mg caps, what should I be looking at?


 If your looking at Arginine, to get the NO effects you'll need I believe 13 grams wich is an absurd amount. For Gh releasing effects I think 4 to 7 grams will do, probably could get away with less.

As for GPLC 4.5grams has been shown to be the sweet spot. djm has said 6 grams works best for him so it could be up to the individual on how well it works, btw 4.5 grams worked great for me. You can find GPLC in powder form or capsule form at our website PrimordialPerformance.com


----------



## djm6464 (Mar 7, 2011)

i dropped back to 4.5g, its still decent, and the stuff isnt cheap, also with the caffeine it was giving me headaches

ill still say the best part of it is not the workout pumps, its the tightness you feel all the time after a good 2weeks

im going to try creatine nitrate to compare


----------



## ryansm (Mar 7, 2011)

djm6464 said:


> i dropped back to 4.5g, its still decent, and the stuff isnt cheap, also with the caffeine it was giving me headaches
> 
> ill still say the best part of it is not the workout pumps, its the tightness you feel all the time after a good 2weeks
> 
> im going to try creatine nitrate to compare



I could care less about pumps personally, I am looking for performance enhancing only, the rest is for shits and giggles.


----------



## JimWratt (Mar 7, 2011)

*Not again..!*



juggernaut said:


> I'm still waiting for "specifics" about the extrapolation of that wonder ingredient we've been discussing for (what is it, three months now without an answer)?
> 
> I didn't/don't care or need the company's views or their self-promoting achievements.


 
Is that because you couldn't read what was explained to you in simple terms or because you don't understand it?  

Like I said previously, if you don't know anything intelligent to say, shut the hell up!


----------



## JimWratt (Mar 7, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> Did you and gobro conspire to execute these posts together? It's kind of similar to the same silly drivel he posts, complete with cutesy icons emphasizing useless points.



Unlike you I don't need anyone else to do my thinking for me. I don't know gopro but he strikes me as at least a zillion times more intelligent that you! 

Calling you halfwit would be a gross exaggeration!


----------



## JimWratt (Mar 8, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> Yes thanks. It only took 3 months.



I've been watching you for much longer than 3 months and I still haven't seen you write anything worth reading. 

If you are so concerned about something like this why don't you get off you lazy ass and do a little research yourself, Jeff Golini's email address has been available to the entire world on the AAP website for years so any time in the last 3 months you could have simply asked him yourself instead of expecting other people to do it for you. 

As it happens people like you will never be told what the active ingredient is because:

A. You wouldn't understand it anyway
B. You'd rubbish it no matter what is was
C. You probably try to sell it to the competition!


----------



## JimWratt (Mar 8, 2011)

gopro said:


> You really are an angry little man aren't you?



Emphasis on the word 'little' eh juggernaut. Imagine that, being such a 'small' person and having a name like juggernaut..!  

Come on juggernaut admit it, you're full of crap and you talk crap. After all, if you had anything positive and intellectual to say we would have seen some evidence of it by now... 6 months and I'm still waiting...   

But seriously, have you always been such an angry, 'glass half empty' guy?


----------



## JimWratt (Mar 8, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> No and we went over this several times. I just don't like you. You're a douche.
> No use in beating a dead horse, right?



Oh and you're so lovable yourself, right Mr "Creator of Chaos:   

Well that's about the only thing I have ever seen you get right! But i suspect you're too busy 'flogging' something else!  

And do you even know what a 'douche' is? Dictionary defines 'doudh' as "A shower of water." So gopro is a... shower?

I've decided you're not just a jerk, your's a joke!


----------



## JimWratt (Mar 8, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> ZMA...they still sell that trash??


 
A Positive remark from the guy who tell us: "_*I farted today*_."   

So, yet another meaningless fart from Mr 'Creator of Chaos'.   

Duh! - However I do apologise to the intelligent members of this forum for venting my spleen against jerk-a-nought, he just really gets up my nose with his crap and i couldn't agree more with the discerning member who wrote: "Can you please just shut the fuck up? You're blocking what could otherwise be a good thread discussion. No one cares about your shit Juggernaut".

That's it, I will stop now, sadly like Jerk-a-lot I have nothing constructive to add.


----------



## gopro (Mar 8, 2011)

ryansm said:


> I could care less about pumps personally, I am looking for performance enhancing only, the rest is for shits and giggles.



You are the perfect candidate for EFX's K-Otic!


----------



## ryansm (Mar 8, 2011)

gopro said:


> You are the perfect candidate for EFX's K-Otic!



Do tell...I haven't heard of it


----------



## gopro (Mar 9, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Do tell...I haven't heard of it



Check it out at aaefx.com and/or bodybuilding.com

I can't say enough about it, so you should just try it and see for yourself. If you want to give a sample a go, send me a PM with your name, address, # and email and I will have some shipped to you! I am confident you will love the stuff if focus, concentration, and mental drive are what you are after!


----------



## pwloiacano (Mar 9, 2011)

I have just started taking the USP Lab products.  Jack 3D and Modern BCAA.  I take 30-45 min before I workout.  It gives me great energy in the gym.  The only downside that I see at this point is that I crash about one hour after my workout is completed.  I feel like I need a nap.


----------



## gopro (Mar 9, 2011)

pwloiacano said:


> I have just started taking the USP Lab products.  Jack 3D and Modern BCAA.  I take 30-45 min before I workout.  It gives me great energy in the gym.  The only downside that I see at this point is that I crash about one hour after my workout is completed.  I feel like I need a nap.



K-Otic was specifically formulated for zero crash.


----------



## Good Grip (Mar 10, 2011)

pwloiacano said:


> I have just started taking the USP Lab products. Jack 3D and Modern BCAA. I take 30-45 min before I workout. It gives me great energy in the gym. The only downside that I see at this point is that I crash about one hour after my workout is completed. I feel like I need a nap.


 
Wanting to take a nap could be signs of a good, hard workout. The only 2 supplements that are sort of hgh related and worked for me are Powerfull and Endoamp max. Ill still continue to buy them because they work very well for me.


----------



## djm6464 (Mar 10, 2011)

^^^^nah man, the nap he is referring to is the geranium oil crash


----------



## ryansm (Mar 10, 2011)

gopro said:


> Check it out at aaefx.com and/or bodybuilding.com
> 
> I can't say enough about it, so you should just try it and see for yourself. If you want to give a sample a go, send me a PM with your name, address, # and email and I will have some shipped to you! I am confident you will love the stuff if focus, concentration, and mental drive are what you are after!



Looking forward to it PM sent


----------



## ryansm (Mar 10, 2011)

djm6464 said:


> ^^^^nah man, the nap he is referring to is the geranium oil crash



which is one of the worst, not to mention the "crash" after coming off of it from months of continuous use.


----------



## gopro (Mar 11, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Looking forward to it PM sent



Buddy...can you PM me full name? Thnx!


----------

