# pre-breakfast cardio



## Vise (Oct 15, 2004)

i am about to begin a pre-breakfast cadio routine (i.e. in a fasted state).  i like to have a five min warm-up, 10 min high intensity clip (soon to increase when i begin the routine) and a five min cool down.  then i will down a protein shake and stretch for about 10-20 min.  should i opt for the lower intensity approach or will this method do fine.  my body is able to handle it (i don't get dizzy and such) b/c of many a early morning football pratice during my highschool years but am i risking too much muscle loss?


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## LAM (Oct 15, 2004)

unless you have some "extra" muscle to spare.  I would not do cardio in the am on am empty stomach...


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## JLB001 (Oct 15, 2004)

I always do cardio on an empty tummy.  Never had any problems retainging my muscle.


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## P-funk (Oct 15, 2004)

JLB001 said:
			
		

> I always do cardio on an empty tummy.  Never had any problems reatinging my muscle.




ditto


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## wilwn (Oct 15, 2004)

it seems as if people are split down the middle as to whether to do cardio on an empty stomach or not.  as LAM has stated, or implied, doing cardio on an empty stomach can lead to loss of muscle.  can someone clear this up?


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## P-funk (Oct 15, 2004)

wilwn said:
			
		

> it seems as if people are split down the middle as to whether to do cardio on an empty stomach or not.  as LAM has stated, or implied, doing cardio on an empty stomach can lead to loss of muscle.  can someone clear this up?




it is a long debate.  There is a thread here were I posted some studies as to why it is beneficial.  It can go either way.  You have to do what is best for your body.  For me, the empty stomach cardio is the best way to go.


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## G-man (Oct 15, 2004)

*It all depends on what you are trying to achieve, hopefully this will help

 Cortisol* is the primary catabolic hormone. It's levels are highest        early in the morning and during periods of high stress, and lowest in early        stages of deep sleep. Cortisol functions in reducing cellular synthesis,        and mobilizing amino acids from muscle tissue to undergo gluconeogenesis        in the liver (conversion to glucose). It halts growth and causes muscle        breakdown. 

        But, cortisol also funtions in fat mobilization, which is probably why doing        cardio first thing in the morning can be a more effective way to burn fat.        

        The control of cortisol is the bodybuilders best bet towards maximizing        muscle growth. Insulin nullifies the effects of cortisol in all but the        most stressful times, so eating food first thing in the morning and right        after a grueling workout are critical to stop muscle loss.


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## CowPimp (Oct 15, 2004)

I don't like the idea of doing cardio first thing in the AM.  If you can get away without losing any muscle, but I'm not taking any chances.  If I want to lose fat, then I just get my diet in gear and make sure to do cardio on nearly all days that I don't weight train.  However, I always eat before I go jogging.

You may also want to consider doing cardio immediately proceeding a weight training session.  Because your glycogen stores are depleted, you are more likely to oxidize fat for energy.  Many people have success with this method too.


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## Machher (Oct 16, 2004)

refer to the "burning muscle" thread i have posted a summary of when you burn muscle, and fat, its easy to understnad and should clear up any misunderstandings.


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## LAM (Oct 16, 2004)

P-funk said:
			
		

> ditto



are you doing low-intensity long duration cardio or HIIT ? because it makes a big difference in the substrates being used for energy...


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## P-funk (Oct 16, 2004)

LAM said:
			
		

> are you doing low-intensity long duration cardio or HIIT ? because it makes a big difference in the substrates being used for energy...



when i am dieting I do HIIT cardio or a combination of the two (HIIT and low intensity).


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## Vise (Oct 17, 2004)

is 20 min of exercise in the morning before i drink a protein shake really gonna cause that much muscle loss?


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## Tha Don (Oct 17, 2004)

i would NOT advise cardio on an empty stomach

i always do my cardio AFTER breakfast (which pre cardio is a oats and whey shake), not only will cardio on an empty stomach risk muscle loss (c'mon your body has not eaten in about 10 hrs, muscles need feeding!) it also means your body is still half asleep, i can't run anywhere near as hard without any food in me - HIIT becomes MIIT (meaning your BMR is raised less = less cals burned over a longer period of time - thoughout the rest of the day)

for those that advocate HIIT on a empty stomach, what do you have before your WO? obviously a hell of a lot of water... any BCAA's? thermos? caffeine? eph?... i'm intrigued that you have had good results with it


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## Vise (Oct 17, 2004)

i usually take one dose of ecy b4 the cardio but i am taking a week off so i with be doing it without it.  it was hard at first but the football helped me get used to it.  i don't get dizzy anymore.  i'm not sure if this has anything to do with results but your test levels are also the highest in the morning.


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## LAM (Oct 17, 2004)

Vise said:
			
		

> is 20 min of exercise in the morning before i drink a protein shake really gonna cause that much muscle loss?



it's not just about the substrates used to fuel the training session but about the hormonal response.  cortisol levels are already elevated before the exercise session which means that at the minimum it will take several hours for serum cortisol values to return to baseline levels.  the body can not be in a anabolic state with elevated serum cortisol levels.  reducing the amount of time that the body is in a catabolic state is the 2nd best thing you can do besides increasing anabolic activity...

the human body is either in a anabolic or catabolic state...


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## shutupntra1n (Oct 17, 2004)

Although I cannot provide any in depth scientific reasoning and I always say "whatever works for one may not for another"... I can tell you from my experience I did lots of cardio for a long time on an empty stomache. Yes I burned fat very fast and lost lots of weight and I always thought I was doing fine until a good buddy of mine introduced me to breakfast before cardio. Wow did I gain so much more muscle than before and push myself more intensely. I didn't think not eating was harming me b/c it was the only way I had ever done my cardio. Once I changed my habits and looking back, I could have attained much more eating first  I also gained incredible muscle especially in the legs after changing my habits. Just my input


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## bulletproof1 (Oct 17, 2004)

shutupntra1n said:
			
		

> Although I cannot provide any in depth scientific reasoning and I always say "whatever works for one may not for another"... I can tell you from my experience I did lots of cardio for a long time on an empty stomache. Yes I burned fat very fast and lost lots of weight and I always thought I was doing fine until a good buddy of mine introduced me to breakfast before cardio. Wow did I gain so much more muscle than before and push myself more intensely. I didn't think not eating was harming me b/c it was the only way I had ever done my cardio. Once I changed my habits and looking back, I could have attained much more eating first  I also gained incredible muscle especially in the legs after changing my habits. Just my input



your input is always welcome.


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## shutupntra1n (Oct 17, 2004)

You're such a doll  Yeah I don't know what his goals are b/c I'm lazy and won't read every inch of this thread but if it's gains you want, you should always EAT


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## Vise (Oct 17, 2004)

i'm not looking to gain any more muscle only maintain what i have.  would a protein shake before my cardio be a better option?


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## arbntmare (Oct 17, 2004)

how on earth do you guys eat and go run?? that food jugging around my stomachmakes me want to throw up...


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## ponyboy (Oct 17, 2004)

Speaking as someone who does long cardio sessions several times a week (6-8 hours total weekly) I have managed to retain my lean mass nicely by eating before (to provide energy) and after (to replenish glycogen) my morning cardio sessions.  The fat loss does not happen as rapidly as one needs to say cut for a show but it does happen.  My abs look far better now than they used to except when dieted down.


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## Tha Don (Oct 19, 2004)

arbntmare said:
			
		

> how on earth do you guys eat and go run?? that food jugging around my stomachmakes me want to throw up...



we don't eat and go run

we eat... (let it digest for about an hour or so) then go run

lol c'mon you think we like being sick everytime we do cardio? errr... nah!


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## sentricyphen (Oct 19, 2004)

For the low intensity:
Just use protein pre cardio, such as whey. No carbs.

Then spike afterwards, with whey+dex.

This way you aren't at risk of catabolism, but still get a lypolytic effect.


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