# Avoiding Arginine



## BulkMeUp (Jul 1, 2005)

Was looking into foods high in Arginine. Unfortunately walnuts are high in them (compared to lysine). Though they are highly recommended as one of the best nuts for a source of fats. So are there any alternatives? Can one supplement with Lysine to increase the ratio of Lysine to Arginine to offset this?


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## god hand (Jul 1, 2005)

Maybe I read ? wrong, but why avoid arginine?


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## BulkMeUp (Jul 1, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Maybe I read ? wrong, but why avoid arginine?


It increases the chances of an outbreak of cold sores.


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## LAM (Jul 1, 2005)

BulkMeUp said:
			
		

> It increases the chances of an outbreak of cold sores.



only if you already have the virus that causes them.  you either get cold sores or you don't.


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## BulkMeUp (Jul 1, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> only if you already have the virus that causes them.  you either get cold sores or you don't.


 that right. Only if one is succeptable to getting them. I want to keep my chances as low as possible.


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## FishOrCutBait (Jul 1, 2005)

dude. Its not that bad, dont worry about it. I get cold sores, and I supplement with arginine, and I havent had any in years.


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## Arnold (Jul 1, 2005)

there is an Rx (very expensive) but effective for cold sores, ask your drug dealer, I mean your doc. 

our son gets them, not sure why because neither my wife or I do.


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## LAM (Jul 1, 2005)

BulkMeUp said:
			
		

> that right. Only if one is succeptable to getting them. I want to keep my chances as low as possible.



supplementing with arginine won't effect wether or not you get the virus that causes them


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## Emma-Leigh (Jul 1, 2005)

Hate to share it with you but chances are you already have it.

About 80% of the general population actually already has/carries the Herpes Simplex Virus (cold sore virus). It is just that only ~20% will actually express the virus and get the sores... 

Many people who do express the sores will supplement with lysine, but there is no use reducing your intake of Arginine 'just incase'.... 

If you are really worried you could... And you could also increase your intake of the cruciferous vegetables (broccoli etc) because compounds in these are also linked to inhibiting the virus growth... And start to suppliment with Selenium and Zinc... But this is probably going over the top.


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## BulkMeUp (Jul 1, 2005)

FishOrCutBait said:
			
		

> dude. Its not that bad, dont worry about it. I get cold sores, and I supplement with arginine, and I havent had any in years.


I had a couple of outbreaks a while ago and was trying to keep it under control.


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## BulkMeUp (Jul 1, 2005)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> there is an Rx (very expensive) but effective for cold sores, ask your drug dealer, I mean your doc. .


Yes i asked my pill pusher.. i mean doc  an he did explain there are meds to keep it under control. I was trying to keep outbreaks to a min by controlling arginine intake and increasing lysine intake as i came accross suggestions that helps in reducing outbreaks. Rather than keep popping meds.


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## BulkMeUp (Jul 1, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> supplementing with arginine won't effect wether or not you get the virus that causes them


Thats right, it wont prevent infection. But i read and heard that keeping arginine lower in ratio to lysine reduced the number of outbreaks. And hence was looking into possibilities of controlling this by the food i intake.


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## BulkMeUp (Jul 1, 2005)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Many people who do express the sores will supplement with lysine, but there is no use reducing your intake of Arginine 'just incase'....


I saw a med show on tv this afternoon which suggested a lower ratio of arginine to lysine reduces the chances of an outbreak. And that got me thinking. 

One of the whey-egg protein shakes i use daily saya it is high in arginine as well as walnuts have a higher ratio of arginine to lysine. Oh well, i guess i shall just leave things the way they are.


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## Emma-Leigh (Jul 1, 2005)

BulkMeUp said:
			
		

> Thats right, it wont prevent infection. But i read and heard that keeping arginine lower in ratio to lysine reduced the number of outbreaks. And hence was looking into possibilities of controlling this by the food i intake.


If you already get them the best thing you can do is make sure your immune system is not 'stressed' at all - so keep your body healthy and happy and you will decrease the risk of outbreaks significantly.

You may find dietary manipulation helps in terms of decreasing your walnuts etc - although it might be easier just to suppliment with lysine.


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## BulkMeUp (Jul 1, 2005)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> If you already get them the best thing you can do is make sure your immune system is not 'stressed' at all - so keep your body healthy and happy and you will decrease the risk of outbreaks significantly.


Yup. A stress free life for me always 



			
				Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> You may find dietary manipulation helps in terms of decreasing your walnuts etc - although it might be easier just to suppliment with lysine.


Thanks, Emma. I'll look into supplimenting with lysine.


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## musclepump (Jul 1, 2005)

Just take the bloody Arginine


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## BulkMeUp (Jul 1, 2005)

musclepump said:
			
		

> Just take the bloody Arginine


Ok, and when i get the next cold sore, i a comming over to kiss you!


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## musclepump (Jul 1, 2005)

BulkMeUp said:
			
		

> Ok, and when i get the next cold sore, i a comming over to kiss you!


 I've got a friend named Mossberg who would just love to put his muzzle, I mean mouth, next to yours


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## BulkMeUp (Jul 1, 2005)

musclepump said:
			
		

> I've got a friend named Mossberg who would just love to put his muzzle, I mean mouth, next to yours


Then maybe he should stop the Arginine


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## musclepump (Jul 1, 2005)

Ooohhh you silly boy...


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## GoalGetter (Jul 4, 2005)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Hate to share it with you but chances are you already have it.
> 
> About 80% of the general population actually already has/carries the Herpes Simplex Virus (cold sore virus). It is just that only ~20% will actually express the virus and get the sores...
> 
> ...


 I get cold sores once in a while, and I don't worry about my arginine intake. I just supplement with lysine and selenium daily, and when i feel an outbreak coming on, I increase the supplementation for a day or two. I have found that it really helps. In fact, this has probably helped more than prescription ($$$) treatment, at least for me. I also eat a lot of broccoli, but this is the first i hear about it inhibiting the virus.


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## ASSPUNCTURE (Jul 5, 2005)

wut happens if I put my dingaling in someones mouth who has a coldsore?  will I get the coldsore virus that will show up on my mouth or on my weiner?


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## GFR (Jul 5, 2005)

ASSPUNCTURE said:
			
		

> wut happens if I put my dingaling in someones mouth who has a coldsore?  will I get the coldsore virus that will show up on my mouth or on my weiner?


I hope your joking.....Its called Herpes simplex 2 and you can get it from a mouth or someones genitals.


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## ASSPUNCTURE (Jul 5, 2005)

how can one form of the virus magically turn into another just cuz the method of acquisition?


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## GoalGetter (Jul 5, 2005)

herpes simplex 1 and herpes simplex 2 are not the same thing. This is one of the most basic explanations I've found to date: 
[size=-1][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]...T[/font][/size][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]here are two types of herpes simplex viruses: two different strains of the virus. You can think of them as a submarine division and an air division of the same army. Their missions are the same, to conquer the white warriors in all of our immune systems. [/size][/font]
   [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]             [/size][/font]
   [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1] Let???s call herpes simplex 1 the ???air division???. Herpes simplex 1 is the virus commonly responsible for cold sores and ???sun blisters??? (facial herpes). This air division of rogues prefers the upper body environment; it is where it thrives, and is able to carry out its mission most effectively. [/size][/font]
   [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]             [/size][/font]
   [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1] So then let???s call herpes simplex 2 the submarine division. Herpes simplex 2 is the virus commonly responsible for genital herpes. This submarine division of rogues prefers the lower body environment; it is where they thrive, and are able to carry out their mission most effectively. [/size][/font]
   [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]             [/size][/font]
   [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1] It is important to understand that either type of virus, air or submarine division, (herpes simplex 1 or 2) can survive in either environment, but are stronger and better equipped to exist in their natural environment, which results in more frequent outbreaks in that area. [/size][/font]
   [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]             [/size][/font]
   [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1] For the record, the submarine division, herpes simplex 2, is a stronger unit, is more tenacious, virulent, and strikes back more often, so to speak. Luckily, modern medicine has provided our white warriors with reinforcements, in the form of antiviral medication, which can reduce the frequency and severity of outbreaks.[/size][/font]​ [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]from: http://www.herpesresourcecenter.com/safersex.html
   [/size][/font]


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## GFR (Jul 5, 2005)

GoalGetter said:
			
		

> herpes simplex 1 and herpes simplex 2 are not the same thing. This is one of the most basic explanations I've found to date:
> [size=-1][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]...T[/font][/size][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]here are two types of herpes simplex viruses: two different strains of the virus. You can think of them as a submarine division and an air division of the same army. Their missions are the same, to conquer the white warriors in all of our immune systems. [/size][/font]
> [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]             [/size][/font]
> [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1] Let???s call herpes simplex 1 the ???air division???. Herpes simplex 1 is the virus commonly responsible for cold sores and ???sun blisters??? (facial herpes). This air division of rogues prefers the upper body environment; it is where it thrives, and is able to carry out its mission most effectively. [/size][/font]
> ...


Herpes can be transfered from a mouth "cold sore" to the genitals..


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## GoalGetter (Jul 5, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Herpes can be transfered from a mouth "cold sore" to the genitals..


 YES. But it doesn't change the TYPE or strain of the virus that it is. So simplex 1 doesn't become simplex 2 just because it is on the genitals.


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## ASSPUNCTURE (Jul 5, 2005)

thats not what I got from that


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## Var (Jul 5, 2005)

Holy shit!  Asspirate is back.  Hows it going, man?


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## GFR (Jul 5, 2005)

GoalGetter said:
			
		

> YES. But it doesn't change the TYPE or strain of the virus that it is. So simplex 1 doesn't become simplex 2 just because it is on the genitals.


When I see a cold sore on a womans mouth I run......thats one opinion I wont test


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## GoalGetter (Jul 5, 2005)

ASSPUNCTURE said:
			
		

> thats not what I got from that


 unless I've understood this wrong all along, if a girl with a cold sore goes downtown on you, and you contract the virus from her mouth on your wanker, you now have herpes simplex 1 because that is what she had and gave you. She can't give you a virus she doesn't have (simplex 2).

 and vice versa if you go downtown on a girl with a herpes outbreak on her genitals (most likely simplex 2) and you get a herpes outbreak on your mouth at some point. You are more likely to have herpes simplex 2 because that is what she had.

 Is there a doctor in the house who can elaborate on this? I don't know much more.


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## ASSPUNCTURE (Jul 5, 2005)

GoalGetter said:
			
		

> unless I've understood this wrong all along, if a girl with a cold sore goes downtown on you, and you contract the virus from her mouth on your wanker, you now have herpes simplex 1 because that is what she had and gave you. She can't give you a virus she doesn't have (simplex 2).
> 
> and vice versa if you go downtown on a girl with a herpes outbreak on her genitals (most likely simplex 2) and you get a herpes outbreak on your mouth at some point. You are more likely to have herpes simplex 2 because that is what she had.
> 
> Is there a doctor in the house who can elaborate on this? I don't know much more.


I agree with you GG, thanks for the read also 


VAR my brother how are you? July is my one year anniversery here : ) 
I am sitting here carbing up right now, so fantastic to answer your question, thanks for askin


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## GoalGetter (Jul 5, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> When I see a cold sore on a womans mouth I run......thats one opinion I wont test


 That is too bad. It is very ignorant on your part. I've gotten cold sores since I was a little kid. 80% of the population carries the herpes simplex 1 virus, only about 20% of that ever show signs of it. When i was younger I was so ashamed because I felt like everyone thought i got it from oral sex or something (and people like you make people like me feel like shit when you say ignorant crap like that), but the truth of the matter is that you might have that virus and never even know it or show signs of it (lucky you).

 No offense, and don't take this as me trying to pick an argument, but you need to educate yourself before you say things like that.


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## Var (Jul 5, 2005)

ASSPUNCTURE said:
			
		

> VAR my brother how are you? July is my one year anniversery here : )
> I am sitting here carbing up right now, so fantastic to answer your question, thanks for askin



Whats this shit?    You better start spewing your tactless, raunchy bullshit or I'm going to lose all faith in you.   Find God or something?


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## GFR (Jul 5, 2005)

GoalGetter said:
			
		

> That is too bad. It is very ignorant on your part. I've gotten cold sores since I was a little kid. 80% of the population carries the herpes simplex 1 virus, only about 20% of that ever show signs of it. When i was younger I was so ashamed because I felt like everyone thought i got it from oral sex or something (and people like you make people like me feel like shit when you say ignorant crap like that), but the truth of the matter is that you might have that virus and never even know it or show signs of it (lucky you).
> 
> No offense, and don't take this as me trying to pick an argument, but you need to educate yourself before you say things like that.


There many herpes web sites that very clearly state you can get genital herpes from cols sores......I am not the one who is ignorant...You have to respect and take care of your body, and part of that is Knowing what dangers are out there.


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## GoalGetter (Jul 5, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> There many herpes web sites that very clearly state you can get genital herpes from cols sores......I am not the one who is ignorant...You have to respect and take care of your body, and part of that is Knowing what dangers are out there.


 i never said you couldn't get genital herpes from an oral herpes outbreak. You most certainly can and i JUST SAID THAT.

 However, you dont' need to "run" from a girl who has oral herpes unless you are ignorant and think you can get it by simply _looking_ at her (this is sarcasm, i know that's not what you implied). There are ways to prevent transmission of the virus. 

 And it still doesn't turn simplex 1 into simplex 2 just because it is on another site on the body besides the mouth if it originated from an oral herpes contraction. That's all I'm saying.

 Anyway, I'm going to bed. I don't have much else to say here that would be of help to the original person who started this thread. 

 Good night.


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## GFR (Jul 5, 2005)

GoalGetter said:
			
		

> i never said you couldn't get genital herpes from an oral herpes outbreak. You most certainly can and i JUST SAID THAT.
> 
> However, you dont' need to "run" from a girl who has oral herpes unless you are ignorant and think you can get it by simply _looking_ at her (this is sarcasm, i know that's not what you implied). There are ways to prevent transmission of the virus.
> 
> ...


Herpes can be spread at any time and I just don't want to get it, so if I'm a bad guy for that ok. The only way to prevent it is not to come into contact in an intimate way with some one who has it


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## Emma-Leigh (Jul 5, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Herpes can be spread at any time and I just don't want to get it, so if I'm a bad guy for that ok. The only way to prevent it is not to come into contact in an intimate way with some one who has it




Stop sh*t stirring please. 

You don't have your facts correct. Get the right information and then do what you want in your life... but don't just spread your ignorant opinion all over the board - it is not appreciated.


*GENITAL HERPES AND ORAL HERPES ARE DIFFERENT*
What you are doing is comparing the cold and the flu. Sure - some of the signs/symptoms may be similar - but they are not the same thing and one is a lot more severe than the other!

Herpes Simplex 1 (cold sores) is generally transmitted via saliva and primarily causes mouth ulcers (cold sores).

Herpes Simplex 2 (genital herpes) is a SEPARATE VIRUS STRAIN. It USUALLY results from independent transmission via sexual contact with people who have actively shedding genital lesions. 

They used to be very easy to distinguish (based purely on the site of the infection)... However, due to oro-genital sexual practices, isolates of the simplex 1 virus are detected on the genitals and isolates of the herpes simplex 2 virus are detected in the mouth.

You can't catch 'genital herpes' (simplex 2) from someone who has 'cold sores' (simplex 1) and you can't catch 'cold sores' (simplex 1) from someone who has 'genital herpes' (simplex 2). 

Now - you CAN get sores on your genitals from herpes simplex 1... And you CAN get sores on your mouth from herpes simplex 2... But as GG said - simplex 1 is not as bad. The lesions usually only last 1 week and don't cause too much of a problem (they are smaller and less severe). Herpes simplex 2 causes larger, more painful lesions that take up to 2 weeks to heal. 


In terms of your fear of contracting the infection... Do what you see fit to 'avoid' infection but as I said before - you probably have herpes simplex 1 already [if you REALLY want to know - go to your doctor and ask for a test - they can test you to see if you have ever had the disease]....  About 80% of all people do. So in order to avoid ALL contact with infected individuals you are going to have to avoid EVERYONE because you will not be able to tell who has it and who doesn't...

Simplex 1 is usually contracted in childhood - and the kid usually gets something similar to a 'flu' and will then also develop mouth ulcers [but just on a side note - they need not get mouth ulcers - infection can occur in the eye, on the skin and the fingers... so just because you didn't have a mouth ulcer or you DON'T get mouth ulcers now doesn't mean you do not have the virus]...  

After the mouth ulcers/primary ulcer heals you might not have any further signs (most people) but, during this infection, the virus enters nearby nerves and travels up to live in nerve 'ganglions' (where nerve cells hang out). This is why 'herpes is for life' - because the bodies immune cells can't get to it. So you will STILL have the virus - it is just you don't get the sores.

Does that mean YOU'RE infective? And that you can transmit the disease?? 

NO!

People who are infected DO NOT shed the virus 100% of the time. It sits in the ganglion 'latent' - meaning it is INACTIVE and CAN NOT BE TRANSMITTED!!  It is NOT replicating! It is only when the virus is REACTIVATED and it travels back down these nerves to the skin or mouth sites that the virus will replicate and can be spread (when it does this it usually causes a 'tingling' or 'burning' sensation - but it will not always go on to develop the sore).

Reactivation occurs for many reasons - and it depends on the person. Some people find that sunburn can trigger reactivation. Others find it is stress. Some females get them when they get their period... Most will get it when their immune system is 'stressed' like in other illnesses (eg: getting a cold or the flu) or more severe things like cancer or contracting AIDS. 

Sure - Don't kiss anyone with obvious lesions or anyone who is experiencing that 'tingling' or 'burning' sensation... and don't have sexual contact with anyone who has these either... But there is no way you can completely isolate yourself from everyone who has the virus.


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## GFR (Jul 5, 2005)

Not sh1t stirring at all, the idea that simplex 1 is the good herpes is just silly, and people should avoid both strains. Both these viruses share 50% of the same DNA. There conflicting reports on the spread of simplex 1 to the genitals becoming simplex 2.... 
The idea that it can't be transfered unless you are in or near a breakout is out dated. That is a very dangerous and ill informed opinion to spread.


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## Emma-Leigh (Jul 5, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Not sh1t stirring at all, the idea that simplex 1 is the good herpes is just silly, and people should avoid both strains.


I never said that simplex 1 was a 'good herpes' -  I said it was different and less severe than simplex 2. Both are not nice things to have and sensible precautions should be taken to avoid contracting or transmitting the disease....



> The idea that it can't be transfered unless you are in or near a breakout is out dated. That is a very dangerous and ill informed opinion to spread.


 I never said it was only when 'in or near' an outbreak that it was spread. I said it only replicates and is shed when the virus becomes REACTIVATED... but that at this stage the person MAY OR MAY NOT get an outbreak... 

At other times - the virus is LATENT and at these times, those infected DO NOT shed.


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## god hand (Jul 5, 2005)

Dont arginine have something to do with sex?


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## GFR (Jul 5, 2005)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Stop sh*t stirring please.
> 
> You don't have your facts correct. Get the right information and then do what you want in your life... but don't just spread your ignorant opinion all over the board - it is not appreciated.
> 
> ...


Just some things I find to be not 100% accurate, I would hate for someone to catch this terrible disease because of opinions that are not completly true


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## BulkMeUp (Jul 6, 2005)

ASSPUNCTURE said:
			
		

> wut happens if I put my dingaling in someones mouth who has a coldsore?  will I get the coldsore virus that will show up on my mouth or on my weiner?


Holy crap! Look who's back!


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## BulkMeUp (Jul 6, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> When I see a cold sore on a womans mouth I run......thats one opinion I wont test


Then you may want to keep running and never stop running for the rest of your life, coz  even without symptoms, the virus can be shed and transmitted.


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## GFR (Jul 6, 2005)

BulkMeUp said:
			
		

> Then you may want to keep running and never stop running for the rest of your life, coz  even without symptoms, the virus can be shed and transmitted.


Thats what the last 2 pages are about


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