# Deca Sustanon Compatibility & HCG preloads



## RoosterTX (Apr 10, 2009)

1. Can I draw and shoot Deca and sustanon in the same shot? I would of course switch tips before injecting. None of the research i have done has turned up any answers as to whether they can be drawn and shot together in the same syringe.

2. I am taking 5000mg of Organon Sustanon 250 over a tweelve week period. The sustanon is in 1 ml amps (250 per amp), ideally to minimize wild flux of test levels I would like to shoot 1/2ml every other day. So the question is: Can I open an amp shoot half, preload the other half, and store it for 48 hours? My concern is sterility. If I can store it, what conditions should I store under?

3. I am also planning to shoot 300iu of Organon Pregnyl HCG every four days. I plan on using an insulin syringe. Can I get away with this, I mean HCG is intramuscular? Also can I use distilled water as a dillutent? By my claculations since I am using 5000iu amps of HCG and want the injectable load to be 3/10cc I would want to mix 48ml of dillutent, does that sound right? But my math is fuzzy today as I have picked up some sort of stomach parasite, so up is down etc.

On the deca I was planning on taking 200mg per week for joint lubrication, but am considering taking 400 instead. TDB. I will also be taking 20mg/day of d-bol for the first four weeks. 

Anyone have any suggestions as to how to break out the d-bol dosing?

Not sure when I'm going to start this cycle. I have all the gear, but feel like I need to do more research.


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## Shadowcam (Apr 10, 2009)

Whats your stats?


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## RoosterTX (Apr 11, 2009)

I'm really just looking for specific answers to the posted Qs. But stats are below:


I'm 25 male


Training since 2003
184.7 lbs
9.7% BF

Currently using p/rr/s, and do HIIT four times a week (run/swin/ 30/60) having good natural sucess, and plan on riding those natural gains as long as possible.

here's my Diet link if you're interested:

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/diet-nutrition/98060-built-could-you-take-peek-bulking-diet.html


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## Shadowcam (Apr 12, 2009)

I wouldnt use Deca on you first run unless you really think you need it for joint lubrication, if your using it for that reason
100mg/w is enough that way you wont get the nasty sides that most get with that drug.

Test E is a better option than Sust as it only has one easter rather than multiple easters that Sust contains therefore easier to keep blood levels consistant and less pinning is required.

Only use a slin pin for HCG if your injecting sub q which is much easier and more effective than injecting intramuscular.


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## VictorZ06 (Apr 12, 2009)

You can mix deca and sust together, both are oil based.

You can take HCG via IM, but I don't see the reasoning in doing so.  Go sub-Q.

Like Shadowcam said, test e is a MUCH better option than sust.  

If you all ready have the sust, use it to front for the first two weeks along side of test e and your decca.

Organon Pregnyl HCG has the solution in the box.  Keep it in the fridge...mixed or unmixed.  

Dbol...if you are going to use dbol, no need to use sust to front.  20mg is a little on the light side, but it may work for you.  You should have more luck with 30, just don't go over 50.

If you are only using the deca for joint lube, 100-200mg is fine.  But I would run the 400mg like you said...test and deca is a great combo.  I wouldn't worry to much about sides at 400mg, just be sure to have your anti-e on hand.  I prefer proviron over nolva.  Good luck.

/V


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## Pirate! (Apr 12, 2009)

Too much gear for your first cycle. Drop the Deca. Use 250 mg sus every four days. HCG sub-Q with slin pin. What's your pct plan? You don't need 48 ml to dilute 5,000 iu HCG.

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/anabolic-zone/88110-how-prepare-dose-hcg.html


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## Alan Schaefer (Apr 13, 2009)

is this your first cycle? I would stay away from the deca, and frontloading week 1-4 is really only optional. Try running test by itself.


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## RoosterTX (Apr 13, 2009)

I did a cycle in summer 2006, took 10ml, 1 shot every week of BD Andropen 275. Good results went from 177 t 208, then dropped to 197 after PCT (in which I took only a front load dosing of clomid, I felt like a twelve year old girl). Lots of endurance running and then a herniated disc and I'm back down to 180 around 10% BF. Id like to get back to an off-cycle weight of about 195 and 8% BF.

So that being the only time I have ever taken any AAS or PH, do I consitute a born again virgin?

I have not turned a deaf ear to everyone suggesting Test E/P over Sus, but I already have the sus, so it's kind of moot? 

I would like to pin the sus every other day with 1/2 ml to keep the levels relatively even. Some say back off the deca (others say go low dose), I think I'll stay with 200mg per week for joint lubrication. That is unless someone has a really good reason why I shouldn't.

I'll front load somewhere between 20-30mg of D-bol for the first 28 days. (but maybe i don't need the d-bol if I'm pinning eod, I'm really just trying to mitigate the low levels of short acting esters)

HCG will be taken 300iu every 5 days, starting day 8, I thought about waiting until day 14, I would be interested to hear thoughts on when to start HCG. I will stop two weeks after the last sus injection. 

10mg nolva per day on cycle

For PCT I would really like to hear the advice of experienced AAS users: I have heard on take 10mg Nolva plus the Primordial PCT package, I have heard that I won't need anything, I have read that I should shoot 1000iu of HCG per week and take 20mg of AI (Nolva prefered). I have enough clomid on hand to run a front load dosing schedule. I can always order other AIs as they are pretty inexpensive. But I am most interested in hearing what has worked for *experienced users*.

I want to thank everyone for their advice. I'm not planning on starting this cycle until I feel like I have made all the natural progress I can, I have every thing on hand 2000mg of Deca, 5000mg of Sus, 500mg of D-bol (may order more), 15000iu of HCG, and a grip of Nolva and Clomid (exact figures escape me). One side note during this cycle I will need to maintain cardiovascular training, I realize this will limit gains and I accept that. Is there anything in this cycle that would have a marked negative effect on the cardiovascular system?

If you have a link you think I should read please attach. (I read the stickes already and try to read every article Prince Posts)


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## Shadowcam (Apr 14, 2009)

I would advise you not to add the Deca, reasons being:
1. Being this is your first real cycle if you experience any sides effects you will not know which drug caused them.
2. Deca is VERY suppressive even at a low dose therefore harder to recover from and most likely a more aggressive PCT is required.
3. 200mg/w will not do much for muscle gains so unless you really do have niggling injuries that cause you problems when working out, its just not worth it due to all the other reasons I mentioned.
4. Being this is your first real cycle you will balloon off a low dose Test only cycle if you training and diet are on point so theres no point adding other compounds at this stage.

Im a firm believer in keeping things simple and using the least amount of drugs as possible as they are just an edge. Once you start to plateau on low dose test cyles then is the time to increase either the dosage or start experimenting with new compounds that way you will make much better gains and in the long run and you will remain healthy.

For a low dose Test cycle PCT I like clomid for 100mg/d for 5 on 2 off 5 on(simple again). If your sticking with the Deca then you may want to add some HCG and arimidex.

For Sust start the clomid 17-21 days after your last shot. There is many different PCT protocols and you will get many different opinions. I have experimented abit and the above works best for me.

As for the cardio question it will not limit your gains so long as its kept moderate and the intensity is kept low, if anything it will help your gains.

Good luck


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## RoosterTX (Apr 14, 2009)

Shadow,

Thanks for the advice.

I am recovering from a herniated L4 L5 disc, you had mentioned that deca can help with niggling injuries (I'm not quite sure what that means), what type of injuries would it help with? If it would help quell the inflamation then I might like to run it at 200mg per week, otherwise I'll hold off. If I do run the deca what would the PCT need to look like?

Any thoughts on whether I would need to front load d-bol if I pin the sus at 1/2ml (125mg) eod? Thanks again for all of your time.


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## Alan Schaefer (Apr 14, 2009)

RoosterTX said:


> Shadow,
> 
> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> ...




Some folks like to load up to give their test a jumpstart, so its only optional. 
And yes, deca will lube your joints and ease your herniated disc pain, but can come with some nasty side effects


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## RoosterTX (Apr 14, 2009)

*Deca Side Effects*

Here is what I've found (seems pretty comprehensive).

Nandrolone Decanoate IM
Back to Drug Overview
Does this medication have side effects?

The following side effects are associated with Nandrolone Decanoate IM:

Common side effects:
Bladder Contractions Causing Frequent Passing of Urine Severe 
Continued Painful Erection Severe 
Enlarged Breasts in Males Severe 
Breast Tenderness Severe 
Masculinization Severe 
A Breaking Out of the Skin Resembling Acne Less Severe 


Infrequent side effects:
Irritation of the Stomach or Intestines Severe 
Liver Problems Severe 
Enlarged Prostate Severe 
Visible Water Retention Severe 
Thickening of Skin Severe 
Leukemia Severe 
Cancer of the Prostate Gland Severe 
High Amount of Calcium in the Blood Severe 
Anemia from Inadequate Iron Severe 
Increased Risk of Bleeding Severe 
Leg Cramps Less Severe 
Chronic Trouble Sleeping Less Severe 
Chills Less Severe 
Diarrhea Less Severe 
Swelling of the Abdomen Less Severe 
Altered Interest in Having Sexual Intercourse Less Severe 


Rare side effects:
Liver Tissue Death Severe 
Microscopic Blood-Filled Cavities in the Liver Severe 
Liver Cancer Severe 
High Amount of Fats in the Blood Severe 



Im most concerned about the liver toxicity. Has anyone used Deca, if so what dosing did use take at what intervals, what sides did you experience? What kind of PCT did you run?

If you used Deca, did you monitor its affect on your body via blood pannels? How often were you checked?


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## Alan Schaefer (Apr 14, 2009)

I dont think I would ever opt to using deca. Plus this is only your 2nd cycle, (it's still manditory to count 2006 as 1 cycle),test alone will be sufficient. Also, sus is not really a good choice because of the variety of esters it contains. Keep in mind deca is powerful and you will def need to run hcg/clomid to reinitiate natural LH production. Deca is non-alkylated which opposes liver toxicity. Still, I think 200mg is too much. Bump anyone?


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## VictorZ06 (Apr 15, 2009)

I only notice sides after I pass 600mg of deca.  Used right, it's really good stuff, IMHO.  

I've used it several times, and it helps a great deal with my spinal bifida....I'm able to work out with a lot less pain.  Since you have an injury, I'd go ahead and use it.  Seeing this is your first cycle, 300-400mg would be the max.

You are getting a lot of different advice here, so be sure to think about it long and hard and see if you can get some further advice from those who have a clue.  Good luck.

/V


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## Shadowcam (Apr 15, 2009)

If you have a injury that effects your training then Deca will help! It does not heal injuries as some seem to think but it will minimise the pain when training as it works as a anti-inflammatry. 

The main concern with Deca is that it is very suppressive ie it shuts you down. If your going to run Deca, remember to end two weeks before you end sust.

 If you run Deca I would start HCG day before your last shot of sust and run till you start clomid therepy. I run HCG at 5000ius space out over the week which is a fairly high dose to kick start the testes as I do not run it during cycle. If your running it during cycle then 500ius every 5-7 days should be enough till you start clomid. AI's is another optional addition but personally I would not bother.

If your worried about liver toxicity as you previously mention then stay away from D-bol. Its not really neccesary if your running sust anyway as sust has a short easter in it therefore you will probally feel the effects quicker than Test E.


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## RoosterTX (Apr 16, 2009)

*what type of clomid?*

What type of clomid dosing would you guys reccomend coming of Deca? Or if you think a different AI should be utilized which one would you reccomend?

Would you stop shoting the HCG at 5 day intervals during the PCT?


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## Pirate! (Apr 16, 2009)

> HCG will be taken 300iu every 5 days, starting day 8



I'd consider using a higher dose of HCG

Deca doesn't really "lube". It maskes pain, which actually promotes injury. Coming off Deca hurts. I don't believe it really offers protection from injury, although it may reduce joint inflammation temorarily.

I prefer arimidex. Stop taking the HCG within three weeks of your last shot.


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