# Hot Chicks Auctions Off Her Virginity



## JailHouse (Sep 15, 2008)

Hot Chicks Auctions Off Her Virginity Video

"Some hot chick decides to auction away her virginity to the highest bidder. I love the one girls opinion that its actually noble of her as long as she is receiving money."

Wow, no class at all.


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## MCx2 (Sep 15, 2008)

I guess I'd do her.


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## Crono1000 (Sep 15, 2008)

I'd hit it


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## GSXR750 (Sep 15, 2008)

hot but a whory thing to do.  It wont stop after that.  Watch she'll be a full time employee of the bunny ranch.


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## FishOrCutBait (Sep 15, 2008)

not even that hot.


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## Built (Sep 15, 2008)

GSXR750 said:


> hot but a whory thing to do.  It wont stop after that.  Watch she'll be a full time employee of the bunny ranch.



You say that like it's a BAD thing. 

Those women make a MINT!


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## danzik17 (Sep 15, 2008)

Built said:


> You say that like it's a BAD thing.
> 
> Those women make a MINT!



Are there more of you out there?  If so, where?


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## BoneCrusher (Sep 15, 2008)

She's a 7/8 at best.  Besides, who wants a virgin anyway?  Seriously?  Do you want a woman who knows how to deal with you in bed ... or some head trip like her?  Give me the sexy lil lady that likes a lil backwards cowboy action, or that can saaaaaaaay ... play a musical instrument with her pooty ... like this one:





YouTube Video


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## BoneCrusher (Sep 15, 2008)

Built said:


> You say that like it's a BAD thing.
> 
> Those women make a MINT!


Hehehe ... butBuilt*, *subconsciously you still identify and label them as "Those women".


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## lnvanry (Sep 15, 2008)

BoneCrusher said:


> Hehehe ... butBuilt*, *subconsciously you still identify and label them as "Those women".



you know it....but you're right, WTF would I want to shell out money for a virgin who is prolly not going to know what to do.  I'll keep my few thousand


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## Built (Sep 15, 2008)

BoneCrusher said:


> Hehehe ... butBuilt*, *subconsciously you still identify and label them as "Those women".





I could have typed out "the female service providers who work at the mustang ranch" but I really thought that part was obvious. A woman at my old gym had a buddy who worked there and banked (and by banked, I mean INVESTED) a quarter of a million dollars a year. 

I certainly didn't mean "those women" as in "hookers". Not all hookers make a mint! You're silly!


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## Witmaster (Sep 16, 2008)

Built said:


> I could have typed out "the female service providers who work at the mustang ranch" but I really thought that part was obvious. A woman at my old gym had a buddy who worked there and banked (and by banked, I mean INVESTED) a quarter of a million dollars a year.
> 
> I certainly didn't mean "those women" as in "hookers". Not all hookers make a mint! You're silly!


Ahhh the infamous Mustang Ranch!  Now THERE's a classic piece of American Culture.  

FOXNews.com - Nevada's Most Infamous Brothel, Mustang Ranch, Back In Business - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

It's back!


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## bio-chem (Sep 16, 2008)

Built said:


> I could have typed out "the female service providers who work at the mustang ranch" but I really thought that part was obvious. A woman at my old gym had a buddy who worked there and banked (and by banked, I mean INVESTED) a quarter of a million dollars a year.
> 
> I certainly didn't mean "those women" as in "hookers". Not all hookers make a mint! You're silly!



but what did she pay for that quarter million dollars?


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## Dale Mabry (Sep 16, 2008)

What person in their right mind is going to hire a marriage and family counselor who paid for college through selling their virginity?


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## Built (Sep 16, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> but what did she pay for that quarter million dollars?



Less tax than she would have in Canada, I tell you what!


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## bio-chem (Sep 16, 2008)

Built said:


> Less tax than she would have in Canada, I tell you what!



i think i was referring to the non-monetary forms of payment


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## Built (Sep 16, 2008)

???


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## vader (Sep 16, 2008)

her father must be proud


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## Built (Sep 16, 2008)

I don't get it. What she's doing is legal, right? 

I don't see a problem.


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## bio-chem (Sep 17, 2008)

Built said:


> I don't get it. What she's doing is legal, right?
> 
> I don't see a problem.



wow. you don't see the psychological issues associated with using your body as a sexual commodity? like someone said, daddy must be proud. What about the damage to family relationships? future prospective husbands?


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## Built (Sep 17, 2008)

To all of those who have a problem with this - do you purchase or view porn? If you do, then it is clearly okay, since it's legal and consensual. Since this is the case, you would therefore be okay with your wife, girlfriend or daughter doing this for a living. No? Then do you lobby your government to change the law so that nobody can purchase or sell sex or sexual fantasy?

Why not?

bio-chem, I don't think she'd want to marry someone who didn't share her view. And I don't see the psychological damage you see. I might, I'd be happy to read up on this, but in this context, I'm just not seeing it - she's not being coerced, she's not drug-addicted, escaping a violent upbringing... she's being very premeditated and mercenary about something she'll eventually do for fun anyway.

How is using her body to make money this way any different from what a performer does on stage, or a construction worker carrying heavy loads and building houses? They are all doing something legal, they all pay taxes. 

What makes it different? You and vader both mentioned "her father", as if somehow this involves him. 

How come?


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## bio-chem (Sep 17, 2008)

sex is different that manual labor. scientifically this is fact. emotions become involved. and like i said its about family relationships we are talking about. you don't think this will effect her relationship with her father? When I was younger I drank. though i did it responsibly it still effected my mother. decisions we make still effect our friends and family around us. though it may not directly involve them.

no i do not purchase porn. i have seen it of course, but i dont purchase it or seek it out. and i make an effort to not view it when i do come across it. I dont petition my government against porn because i believe in freedom of the press and even though I have concerns with it, that becomes a difficult gray area to regulate.


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## Built (Sep 17, 2008)

Why the issue with her father? You mentioned her father, vader mentioned her father...

I grew up without a father. I don't get the significance here.


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## bio-chem (Sep 17, 2008)

Built said:


> Why the issue with her father? You mentioned her father, vader mentioned her father...
> 
> I grew up without a father. I don't get the significance here.



i think your missing the point here. and you seem to be doing it on purpose. i gave an example of me and my relationship with my mother and the effects a decision i made had. your more than intelligent enough to relate that to a woman and relationship with her father.

there is not a loving father in the world who wants to see his little girl go into porn, or prostitution.


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## Little Wing (Sep 17, 2008)

i might just be a bad business woman but you couldn't pay me a half a million dollars to sleep with *1* man i didn't desire to be with.  i think most people find it hard to understand having sex willingly with someone you're not attracted to. it's just a *really* gross thought.


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## bio-chem (Sep 17, 2008)

Little Wing said:


> i might just be a bad business woman but you couldn't pay me a half a million dollars to sleep with *1* man i didn't desire to be with.  i think most people find it hard to understand having sex willingly with someone you're not attracted to. it's just a *really* gross thought.



id sell myself for half a million dollars.


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## DaMayor (Sep 17, 2008)

Built said:


> Why the issue with her father? You mentioned her father, vader mentioned her father...
> 
> I grew up without a father. I don't get the significance here.



I think *Father* was just the term they threw out there. Y'know, "Daddy's little girl" yada yada yada..just like "Mommy's boy". Maybe the term should have been _Parents_, or _Family_. Either way, I don't think..at least from my bar stool, they meant to be paternally specific.


I thought virginal sacrifices went out with the Aztecs anyway.


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## DaMayor (Sep 17, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> id sell myself for half a million dollars.



I'd sell myself, but it would have to be *by the pound*.


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## bio-chem (Sep 17, 2008)

DaMayor said:


> I think *Father* was just the term they threw out there. Y'know, "Daddy's little girl" yada yada yada..just like "Mommy's boy". Maybe the term should have been _Parents_, or _Family_. Either way, I don't think..at least from my bar stool, they meant to be paternally specific.


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## bio-chem (Sep 17, 2008)

DaMayor said:


> I thought virginal sacrifices went out with the Aztecs anyway.



virginal sacrifices=waste of a good woman


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## Built (Sep 17, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> there is not a loving father in the world who wants to see his little girl go into porn, or prostitution.



But many of these men PURCHASE it. 

If it's good enough to buy, it's good enough to sell. If you don't think so, don't buy it and fight to make its sale illegal.


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## Built (Sep 17, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> id sell myself for half a million dollars.



So you're saying YOUR parents would be cool with it - it's just HERs who won't be. 

Just checking.


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## DaMayor (Sep 17, 2008)

Built said:


> But many of these men PURCHASE it.
> 
> If it's good enough to buy, it's good enough to sell. If you don't think so, don't buy it and fight to make its sale illegal.



So, uh...about that ketosis thing...

JyooknowIluvsya!


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## bio-chem (Sep 17, 2008)

Built said:


> But many of these men PURCHASE it.
> 
> If it's good enough to buy, it's good enough to sell. If you don't think so, don't buy it and fight to make its sale illegal.



well as i've stated I don't buy, and i support all of our prostitution laws.


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## Built (Sep 17, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> well as i've stated I don't buy, and i support all of our prostitution laws.



Apparently, you don't. Prostitution is legal in parts of your country.


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## bio-chem (Sep 17, 2008)

Built said:


> So you're saying YOUR parents would be cool with it - it's just HERs who won't be.
> 
> Just checking.



my parents wouldn't know. i wouldn't advertise it on national telivision.


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## Built (Sep 17, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> my parents wouldn't know. i wouldn't advertise it on national telivision.


Don't worry, I'll do that part for you.


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## bio-chem (Sep 17, 2008)

Built said:


> Don't worry, I'll do that part for you.



thanks. ive always needed a good pimp


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## Built (Sep 17, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> sex is different that manual labor. scientifically this is fact. emotions become involved.



Emotions become involved in all kinds of occupations. 

Sports: rage, aggression
Acting: ALL of 'em
Therapists, counselors: these people can pay an incredibly high emotional price over the course of the work that they do. A friend of mine works for an agency that mediates the victims of residential schools and reads case-reports daily. 

Are you saying jobs where emotions become involved should not be performed?



> and like i said its about family relationships we are talking about. you don't think this will effect her relationship with her father? When I was younger I drank. though i did it responsibly it still effected my mother. decisions we make still effect our friends and family around us. though it may not directly involve them.


This was an important enough point to re-visit. So you used to drink, but gave it up because it messed things up with your mom. 

She's okay with you now? 



> no i do not purchase porn. i have seen it of course, but i dont purchase it or seek it out. and i make an effort to not view it when i do come across it. I dont petition my government against porn because i believe in freedom of the press and even though I have concerns with it, that becomes a difficult gray area to regulate.





bio-chem said:


> i think your missing the point here. and you seem to be doing it on purpose. i gave an example of me and my relationship with my mother and the effects a decision i made had. your more than intelligent enough to relate that to a woman and relationship with her father.
> 
> there is not a loving father in the world who wants to see his little girl go into porn, or prostitution.


How about his little boy?


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## Built (Sep 17, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> thanks. ive always needed a good pimp



You know it, baby boy. 

<adjusts purple velvet Stetson in rear-view mirror of her white Cadillac>


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## DaMayor (Sep 17, 2008)

Okay, I think I've missed something here...


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## bio-chem (Sep 17, 2008)

Built said:


> Apparently, you don't. Prostitution is legal in parts of your country.



I was born and raised in washington state and currently reside in utah. neither of which allows prostitution. I have no voting control over a few counties in nevada


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## Built (Sep 17, 2008)

I always wonder how that stuff works. Prostitution has never been illegal in Canada. SOLICITING is, but not the sale.


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## bio-chem (Sep 17, 2008)

Built said:


> Emotions become involved in all kinds of occupations.
> 
> Sports: rage, aggression
> Acting: ALL of 'em
> ...



his little boy? there a lot of gigilos where you are from? its not an issue the same way female prostitution is. you may consider this a double standard. im ok with that. i believe in double standards when it comes to raising your children. boys and girls are different and need different rules. on top of that personalities are different and individual children need different rules.

just because she is ok now doesn't make it ok. and that is not why i chose to stop drinking.

look up the list of endorphins that are released during sex. one of them is the same endorphine released just after child birth responsible for the mother/child bond.  but thats cool. a woman should have those endorphines released with hundreds of men. that can't possibly have negative consequences.
Prostitution is bad for the individual and bad for society.


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## Built (Sep 17, 2008)

I live in Vancouver.There are a LOT of male prostitutes here. 

There are also a lot of men working in porn.

So you used to drink but you stopped. Your mom wasn't cool with it but she's cool with you now. 

This adult woman chooses to make money in a legal way that you don't personally approve of, and in a way that you imagine will cause embarrassment/discomfort to her father. The logical conclusion here is "he'll get over it". 

I don't understand how prostitution is bad for the individual and bad for society. It seems to work fine in the Netherlands. 

And for the record, oxytocin (I think that's the hormone you're referring to, right? It's not an endorphin, but like endorphins it is a peptide hormone) is released when you reach climax, too babe. It appears to be protective against breast cancer and prostate cancer.

One of my earlier posts...


Built said:


> I've read that the oxytocin released in the buildup toward orgasm is protective of certain cancers, such as that of the breast or prostate.
> 
> Some health leaders recommend men enjoy two orgasms a day to promote prostate health. In fact, a 2004 JAMA study concluded:
> _
> ...


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## bio-chem (Sep 17, 2008)

Built said:


> And for the record, oxytocin (I think that's the hormone you're referring to, right? It's not an endorphin, but like endorphins it is a peptide hormone) is released when you reach climax, too babe. It appears to be protective against breast cancer and prostate cancer.
> 
> One of my earlier posts...



so like i said the same chemical released in a mothers brain to bond her to her child is released during sex. we agree then so far. you really don't see a problem with this and prostitution? prostitution absolutely creates problems within an individual to form proper healthy relationships. both sexual and otherwise. and i just can't believe that someone can not see how porn and prostitution are detrimental to society? This should be just a natural known fact. something understood like the sun shines.


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## Built (Sep 17, 2008)

Neither prostitution nor porn cause me any personal grief. I accept that this view is not universal. 

I know people who work in porn and have no trouble raising their families or bonding with their partners. I also know telephone company employees who abandon their families. 

Yep, the same cancer-protective hormone gets released during orgasm and nipple-stimulation in both sexes. Oxytocin's good shit.


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## Arnold (Sep 17, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> you really don't see a problem with this and prostitution? prostitution absolutely creates problems within an individual to form proper healthy relationships. both sexual and otherwise. and i just can't believe that someone can not see how porn and prostitution are detrimental to society? This should be just a natural known fact. something understood like the sun shines.


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## JailHouse (Sep 17, 2008)

There are some great points brought up in both cases here.  But IMO a girl who solicits her virginity nationally isnt the type of girl id wanna bring home to mom.


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## Built (Sep 17, 2008)

Okay, but she probably wouldn't want to marry someone who would judge her, either. 

There's someone for everyone.


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## Mudge (Sep 17, 2008)

Stepdad stole a bunch of money from the family, more than once, took out loans in the two girls' names - thats part of the reason she is doing this (after learning of a woman who got 1.5m for selling her virginity).

Real father is in Germany, they don't have contact with him.


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## bio-chem (Sep 18, 2008)

Built said:


> Okay, but she probably wouldn't want to marry someone who would judge her, either.
> 
> There's someone for everyone.



No, but up until a few months ago he probably would have been. This girl spoke of waiting until marriage. There was some moral fortitude there where she valued her body outside of the monetary scope. a few months ago that changed.

I love the don't judge argument. It is such a joke.


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## bio-chem (Sep 18, 2008)

Built said:


> Neither prostitution nor porn cause me any personal grief. I accept that this view is not universal.
> 
> I know people who work in porn and have no trouble raising their families or bonding with their partners. I also know telephone company employees who abandon their families.
> 
> :



yes, we can all come up with examples that go against the standard. But it is hard to argue the fact that even a passing glance at the psyche of individuals in porn and prostitution show some real problems. including massive problems with family interaction and ability to form lasting bonds.

It takes some pretty fucked up stuff to come up with 2 girls and 1 cup.


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## tucker01 (Sep 18, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> It takes some pretty fucked up stuff to come up with 2 girls and 1 cup.



I will have you know that is gold.


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## bio-chem (Sep 18, 2008)

IainDaniel said:


> I will have you know that is gold.


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## Built (Sep 18, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> yes, we can all come up with examples that go against the standard. But it is hard to argue the fact that even a passing glance at the psyche of individuals in porn and prostitution show some real problems. including massive problems with family interaction and ability to form lasting bonds.



Lots of people have trouble with pair-bonding, for any number of reasons. This does not mean that all people who work in the sex industry will have these problems. 

So far you've tossed out arguments that are based on your personal opinion - and that's cool, you're entitled to your opinion - but you're qualifying them as if they are universal truths. Having interacted with the people in my life who are or who have been employed in these industries, your opinion does not mesh with my observation.



> It takes some pretty fucked up stuff to come up with 2 girls and 1 cup.



I don't watch stuff I don't like - I just turn it off. So simple!

Back to this current discussion...



bio-chem said:


> No, but up until a few months ago he probably would have been. This girl spoke of waiting until marriage. There was some moral fortitude there where she valued her body outside of the monetary scope. a few months ago that changed.
> 
> I love the don't judge argument. It is such a joke.



It's her body, she's doing something that's legal and of her own free will, and she's not trying to appeal to you for marriage. 

I'm confused about the "it's such a joke" comment. Care to expand a bit on that?


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## Little Wing (Sep 18, 2008)

Got Questions? Get Answers.: Misleading teens about the porn industry

"Porn isn't just an idea simply to take or leave as you suggest. It is an industry that hurts many people involved and *whose production regularly causes bruising, bleeding, genital and anal tearing, fistula, the transmission of STDs like herpes, HIV, genital warts (unstopped by condoms), and more. *I used to be a porn user who amazingly convinced herself the lack of condoms during sex scenes and cum shots routinely sprayed onto women's tongues, gums and throats weren't actually unsafe sex for the performers. I have since learned a whole lot about the porn industry and what people who have been involved with its making say (Traci Lords recently told Larry King that when people come up to her and tell her they've seen all her porn films she feels like she's being stabbed.)
I can see your website is devoted to truth, and it is in the name of truth I ask you to consider the peer-reviewed research available about prostitution (which is what porn is, filmed prostitution) that lets sex workers say for themselves how much they hate what they have to do for money, how it has harmed them physically and mentally, and how the sex industry capitalizes on child rape, drug addiction and poverty. The Department of Justice says the average age a girl is first prostituted in the USA is 13 years old, putting to further question the suggestion that most sex workers voluntarily choose this lifestyle, and the United States is the #1 producer of child pornography in the world."

"... have left out the reality of how the sex industry treats the women and men involved with the production of porn (including the much higher suicide rate and overall death rate of prostitutes compared to non-prostitutes.) '


Prostitution Research & Education Website


i knew one girl in vegas that sold herself she was frank about how she felt and said to me once that when a guy takes a long time to get off she thinks about stabbing him to death while she's doing whatever it is she's doing. she also said i didn't wanna know how many times she thought of biting off some guys cock while she was blowing him. seems to me it's a given these people have issues. think of the most repulsive person you know... something would have to be wrong with you to agree to fuck them.


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## soxmuscle (Sep 18, 2008)

This girls a dumpster pig.

Reminds me of Doublebases wife.

Next.


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## DaMayor (Sep 18, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> I love the *don't judge *argument. It is such a joke.



Not so much a joke..I think it's more of an *easy out*. 

In other words, some (if not most) people choose to follow moral guidelines of some kind. Label 'em what you will....rules, ethics, religion, whatever. Y'know, *Super Ego *stuff. Those who choose to follow any sort of guideline(s) use judgement as a tool (ideally anyway) to keep each other within the most basic guidelines. I personally think this developed many many moons ago...."don't eat that plant", "stay away from T-Rex" based on survival issues...blah blah blah.
When these behavioral guidelines are removed, ignored, or otherwise disregarded, and the individual desensitized, then there is no longer a need for judgement. Is this freedom?
IMO, No judgement, no moral dilemmas = false sense of ethical freedom= moral corruption=chaos.... 

This chick selling her goods just like Roxanne on the corner....just sugar coated and in a more expensive dress. I can't respect that...sorry.


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## DaMayor (Sep 18, 2008)

soxmuscle said:


> This girls a dumpster pig.
> 
> Reminds me of Doublebases wife.
> 
> Next.



You ain't right in the noggin'.


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## soxmuscle (Sep 18, 2008)

DaMayor said:


> You ain't right in the noggin'.



You think she's attractive?

Maybe the term "dumpster pig" was a bit harsh, but I wouldn't spend more than $50 dollars in a bar to try and rail her no less $500k or whatever crazy figure her pussy's going for in this auction..


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## Little Wing (Sep 18, 2008)

Dead Pornstars — Blogs, Pictures, and more on WordPress


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## DaMayor (Sep 18, 2008)

soxmuscle said:


> You think she's attractive?
> 
> Maybe the term "dumpster pig" was a bit harsh, but I wouldn't spend more than $50 dollars in a bar to try and rail her no less $500k or whatever crazy figure her pussy's going for in this auction..



I just thought your response was funny.......go figure.

Nope, I don't find her attractive at all.....mainly because she's sellin' her hootchie.


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## Little Wing (Sep 18, 2008)

*Porn star 'promised to help husband to die' for his money*

  By Simon de Bruxelles 
  A PORN actress encouraged her disabled husband to kill himself because she wanted his money, a court was told yesterday. Gemma Johnson, 21, whose estranged husband James Edwards, 38, was the producer, director and co-star of her films, is accused of feeding him Paracetamol and then, when that failed to kill him, trying to help him to hang himself from his bathroom door.



nice girl just trying to make an honest buck i guess.


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## bio-chem (Sep 18, 2008)

Built said:


> Lots of people have trouble with pair-bonding, for any number of reasons. This does not mean that all people who work in the sex industry will have these problems.
> 
> So far you've tossed out arguments that are based on your personal opinion - and that's cool, you're entitled to your opinion - but you're qualifying them as if they are universal truths. Having interacted with the people in my life who are or who have been employed in these industries, your opinion does not mesh with my observation.
> 
> ...



I think little wing handled the question on problems with the porn industry. for individuals and society. Your examples are the exception. hardly the rule. 

and as far as don't judge being a joke. da mayor handles it nicely

"When these behavioral guidelines are removed, ignored, or otherwise disregarded, and the individual desensitized, then there is no longer a need for judgement. Is this freedom?
IMO, No judgement, no moral dilemmas = false sense of ethical freedom= moral corruption=chaos....Not so much a joke..I think it's more of an easy out.


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## Little Wing (Sep 18, 2008)

nsfw 

Dead Porn Stars


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## Built (Sep 18, 2008)

Little Wing said:


> Got Questions? Get Answers.: Misleading teens about the porn industry
> 
> "Porn isn't just an idea simply to take or leave as you suggest. It is an industry that hurts many people involved and *whose production regularly causes bruising, bleeding, genital and anal tearing, fistula, the transmission of STDs like herpes, HIV, genital warts (unstopped by condoms), and more. *I used to be a porn user who amazingly convinced herself the lack of condoms during sex scenes and cum shots routinely sprayed onto women's tongues, gums and throats weren't actually unsafe sex for the performers. I have since learned a whole lot about the porn industry and what people who have been involved with its making say (Traci Lords recently told Larry King that when people come up to her and tell her they've seen all her porn films she feels like she's being stabbed.)


Traci Lords was a teenager when she worked in porn. This isn't a fair example to use because she was too young to legally work in this industry . I would like to know where her parents were during this time. She should have been in school, and her parents were clearly negligent - as were her employers. I mean shit, she would have been too young to work in a bar!

This is quite different from the situations I spoke of, where the performers in question were and are in their thirties and forties when they started, and pick and choose the jobs they take on. 



> I can see your website is devoted to truth, and it is in the name of truth I ask you to consider the peer-reviewed research available about prostitution (which is what porn is, filmed prostitution) that lets sex workers say for themselves how much they hate what they have to do for money, how it has harmed them physically and mentally, and how the sex industry capitalizes on child rape, drug addiction and poverty. The Department of Justice says the average age a girl is first prostituted in the USA is 13 years old, putting to further question the suggestion that most sex workers voluntarily choose this lifestyle, and the United States is the #1 producer of child pornography in the world."
> 
> "... have left out the reality of how the sex industry treats the women and men involved with the production of porn (including the much higher suicide rate and overall death rate of prostitutes compared to non-prostitutes.) '


Dentists have a higher-than-average suicide rate, too. So do air traffic controllers.

I really liked how this article treated the issue of suicide rates by occupation:
Suicide by profession: lots of confusion, inconclusive data

Police officers end their lives more often than those in other professions, right? Or is it dentists? Or psychologists?

Assertions about which occupational group has the most suicides float around like urban myths.

Various occupational groups have called the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), each to confirm that their occupation has the highest rates of suicide, says Jim Weed, NCHS analyst.

But experts on suicide say that statistics on its relation to occupation are not clear. There is no national data set on occupation and suicide. Local studies indicate elevated rates in different occupations, but the data usually "turn out to be frail," says prominent suicide researcher David Clark, PhD.

And in fact, points out Ronald Maris, PhD, director of the Center for the Study of Suicide and Life-Threatening Behavior at the University of South Carolina, "Occupation is not a major predictor of suicide and it does not explain much about why the person commits suicide."

One of the largest studies in the area was conducted by the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) in 1995, which concluded that there is a higher suicide rate in the medical field. But beyond that, NIOSH researchers said, the picture is equivocal: Often the studies are only of one geographic area, sometimes they have methodological problems, and sometimes they contradict each other.

That's in great part because the statistics are surprisingly difficult to gather. Only about half the states put occupation on their death certificates. And even when they do, there are questions as to whether the physician, medical examiner or coroner filling in the certificates always gets the occupation or the cause of death right.

In addition, statistical conclusions are hampered by the fact that when the 30,000 annual U.S. suicides are divided into occupations, the numbers for many job categories are relatively small.

Some larger studies in the last few years provide at least some thought-provoking questions about connections between jobs and suicide. For example, in 1997, NIOSH and other government agencies analyzed 1980-84 death certificates by all occupations and causes of death, and found statistically significant elevated rates of suicide for:

â€¢ White male physicians.

â€¢ Black male guards (including supervisors, crossing guards, police, protective service occupations, but not correctional institution occupations).

â€¢ White female painters, sculptors, craft-artists and artist printmakers.

In another study, a sociology researcher at the University of California, Riverside, Augustine Kposowa, PhD, looked at records over nine years for about half a million people of whom 545 committed suicide. After controlling for such variables as age, income, race, marital status and region of residence, he found that only laborers and the unemployed had significantly higher risks.

On the other hand, he found "dramatic" differences for suicide among the industries where people work. At highest risk were those in mining, business and repair services, wholesale and retail trade and construction.

In the end, say some researchers, occupation may not be much of a factor in suicide.* Psychologists have long documented that among the top predictors for suicide are diagnosable mental disorder, co-morbid substance use, loss of social support and availability and access to a firearm.*

--K. FOXHALL
​


> Prostitution Research & Education Website
> 
> 
> i knew one girl in vegas that sold herself she was frank about how she felt and said to me once that when a guy takes a long time to get off she thinks about stabbing him to death while she's doing whatever it is she's doing. she also said i didn't wanna know how many times she thought of biting off some guys cock while she was blowing him. seems to me it's a given these people have issues. think of the most repulsive person you know... something would have to be wrong with you to agree to fuck them.




I've been a waitress and wanted to poison the food I served to more a few of my customers over the years. Hell, we had a cook who would spit on the burgers we served these jokers if we asked!

Some people are shitheads. It's just the way it is. 




DaMayor said:


> Not so much a joke..I think it's more of an *easy out*.


I still don't see it. I'm not saying "don't judge". You go right ahead and judge if you like. Should this woman choose to marry someday, she certainly wouldn't choose to be with someone who doesn't share her views. 

Put it this way - I don't smoke. I wouldn't go out looking for a smoker to marry, then try to get him to quit while telling him what a weak-willed loser he is for being a smoker. 

He wouldn't want someone like me to marry, because I'd make him feel like he wasn't lovable the way he is.

We'd both find someone else. 

How is that an "easy out"?



> This chick selling her goods just like Roxanne on the corner....just sugar coated and in a more expensive dress. I can't respect that...sorry.



And that's fine. I don't respect the fitness industry for lying to people to sell product, and I don't respect the tobacco industry for selling a product that would NOT be allowed on the market if it wasn't already there. 

There are lots of things to respect and not respect. 

I'd appreciate it if we could all take a breath here and not bring in things that aren't part of this discussion, like child abuse, organized crime, mental illness and drug addiction. I realize these are sometimes part of the industry - particularly in the illegal end of it - but they aren't always and they don't have to be. 

The part of the industry I'm talking about is the legal enterprise, where the individual is over the age of consent and has chosen to work within the legislation and the regulations, and pays taxes. Yanno, like the woman auctioning off her cherry.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 18, 2008)

Built said:


> Traci Lords was a teenager when she worked in porn. This isn't a fair example to use because she was too young to legally work in this industry . I would like to know where her parents were during this time. She should have been in school, and her parents were clearly negligent - as were her employers. I mean shit, she would have been too young to work in a bar!
> 
> This is quite different from the situations I spoke of, where the performers in question were and are in their thirties and forties when they started, and pick and choose the jobs they take on.
> 
> ...



Rose colored lenses indeed. I don't consider blindly removing the stories of traci lords and the illegal aspects of porn from the conversation to be valid at all. as these are not isolated cases. like I said, your examples are the exception not the rule.

this girl has to go to a very specific part of the country for it to be legal. it's not like what she is doing is universally legal throughout the US.

Just because child prostitution is legal in parts of south east asia does not make it ok for people to fly there for that purpose. What gary glitter did was wrong. I know you are going to come back with the "this is a child example, completely different" argument. I disagree, I find it totally valid. Just because a girl waits till 18 to sell her body doesn't make it right. this is not healthy for her or society. plenty of examples have been given as to why.


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## Built (Sep 18, 2008)

There are plenty of examples of children who have worked in Hollywood while they were too young, and they got harmed too.

Listen, I've not attacked anyone for their views here, and I've stayed with the original theme of the thread, which was the women in Nevada who is selling her virginity to the highest bidder. 

I've enjoyed the discussion, and appreciate that there is a lot of emotionality involved here. 

But I think there is waaaaay too much "what if" going on here. People move from state to state for many reasons - tax structures, gay marriage, legalized medical marijuana, legalized gambling, and yes, prostitution. She's not forcing anyone to go into the business with her, she's not moving out of her country, she'll be paying taxes, she's not being coerced and she's not looking for your sympathy. 

If you don't like what she's doing, ignore it. If you feel what she is doing shouldn't be legal, fight to change legislation.


----------



## MCx2 (Sep 18, 2008)

Built said:


> There are plenty of examples of children who have worked in Hollywood while they were too young, and they got harmed too.
> 
> Listen, I've not attacked anyone for their views here, and I've stayed with the original theme of the thread, which was the women in Nevada who is selling her virginity to the highest bidder.
> 
> ...



Amen to this.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 18, 2008)

Built said:


> Some people are shitheads. It's just the way it is.



a guy or girl paying someone to fuck suck whatever them that really doesn't want to do it is a shit head n vice versa.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 18, 2008)

Built said:


> There are plenty of examples of children who have worked in Hollywood while they were too young, and they got harmed too.
> 
> Listen, I've not attacked anyone for their views here, and I've stayed with the original theme of the thread, which was the women in Nevada who is selling her virginity to the highest bidder.
> 
> ...



When she went public like she has, she turned it into a national discussion. This was not somebody going around finding a story and posting it without this girls desires. When she made it a public spectacle she brought in the national debate to her life.

I agree, lets keep it directly related to her story. There is not "what if". this young woman has chosen to sell her body. she has chosen to make it a very public event. she has chosen to cross the country in order to enact this transaction as it is illegal where she currently resides.

As it is a national public topic I have commented on my beliefs. I am disappointed that a girl who I would have been attracted to otherwise has chosen this course. I do not view porn, I do not pay for prostitutes, or support prostitution in any way. and I feel that I am an advocate politically for my beliefs. meaning I donate to charities that support my beliefs and I vote for politicians who I feel will enact laws that support the views of how I want this country led.

I agree. everyone is entitled to their beliefs. I don't think I have treated anyone untoward in this thread. I respect that there are differing beliefs on this subject. That is fine. I still think im right here. I must say built. I expected most women to react the same way little wing did.


----------



## Built (Sep 18, 2008)

The woman in Nevada made it public because she's marketing - that part is clear to me. The more buzz, the higher the price. That's just business. 



> I agree. everyone is entitled to their beliefs. I don't think I have treated anyone untoward in this thread. I respect that there are differing beliefs on this subject. That is fine. I still think im right here. I must say built. I expected most women to react the same way little wing did.



Fair enough, and thank you for that. I appreciate that you don't agree, and respect your position.

I don't agree with child porn at all, but there are any number of employment opportunities I don't feel are appropriate for children. I don't generally like the thought of children working for pay at all - they should be in school. On this point, I agree with LittleWing.


----------



## DaMayor (Sep 18, 2008)

Built said:


> Dentists have a higher-than-average suicide rate.....
> 
> I still don't see it. I'm not saying "don't judge".
> 
> ...



Yes, choice is choice, no doubt. But here, prostitution is illegal. Therefore, this girl's actions are not acceptable by law.

All legal aspects aside, the whole thing is just stooopid. I don't care if she had two of 'em......My super ego ain't buyin'.


----------



## I Are Baboon (Sep 18, 2008)

soxmuscle said:


> This girls a dumpster pig.
> 
> Reminds me of Doublebases wife.
> 
> Next.



OH!




That ain't right.


----------



## clemson357 (Sep 19, 2008)

I've fucked hotter girls than that for free.  And I prefer non-virgins, I am not muslim.


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## HialeahChico305 (Sep 19, 2008)

clemson357 said:


> I've fucked hotter girls than that for free.  And I prefer non-virgins, I am not muslim.



who brags about fucking hotter girls on the internet?


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## HialeahChico305 (Sep 19, 2008)

DaMayor said:


> I just thought your response was funny.......go figure.
> 
> Nope, I don't find her attractive at all.....mainly because she's sellin' her hootchie.



you don't? forget the selling her self part, you dont find that chick attractive?


----------



## maniclion (Sep 19, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> so like i said the same chemical released in a mothers brain to bond her to her child is released during sex. we agree then so far. you really don't see a problem with this and prostitution? prostitution absolutely creates problems within an individual to form proper healthy relationships. both sexual and otherwise. and i just can't believe that someone can not see how porn and prostitution are detrimental to society? This should be just a natural known fact. something understood like the sun shines.


Really?  Not everyone is built from the same operating system as you.  Some people aren't affected by promiscuous sexual relationships and can maintain near perfect relations with a life partner while at the same time sharing their love with others.  Natural Tan on our board and his wife are that way....  In Japan pregnant wives would rather their husbands meet up with a pro for a quick "how do ya do" than risk their husbands having an affair and forming an emotional bond with another woman.....  I thought people understood that everyone experiences things differently, like most people know the moon reflects the sun but some think it shines it's own light....


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## bio-chem (Sep 19, 2008)

maniclion said:


> Really?  Not everyone is built from the same operating system as you.  Some people aren't affected by promiscuous sexual relationships and can maintain near perfect relations with a life partner while at the same time sharing their love with others.  Natural Tan on our board and his wife are that way....  In Japan pregnant wives would rather their husbands meet up with a pro for a quick "how do ya do" than risk their husbands having an affair and forming an emotional bond with another woman.....  I thought people understood that everyone experiences things differently, like most people know the moon reflects the sun but some think it shines it's own light....



again, examples given are the exception. not the rule. look, i recognize people are going to choose to be promiscuous. I accept that choice. I don't expect people to follow the same moral standard that I do. Not everyone believes in monogamy or waiting until marriage. I still feel people will be happier and have healthier relationships who do follow these guidelines


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## TexanTA1996 (Sep 19, 2008)

She's selling herself on the internet.  She's OBVIOUSLY a real virgin.


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## bio-chem (Sep 19, 2008)

TexanTA1996 said:


> She's selling herself on the internet.  She's OBVIOUSLY a real virgin.



500,000 to find out


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## KelJu (Sep 19, 2008)

Built said:


> To all of those who have a problem with this - do you purchase or view porn? If you do, then it is clearly okay, since it's legal and consensual. Since this is the case, you would therefore be okay with your wife, girlfriend or daughter doing this for a living. No? Then do you lobby your government to change the law so that nobody can purchase or sell sex or sexual fantasy?
> 
> Why not?
> 
> ...





Also, women have been using their body's to get what they want for a long time. If you are a guy, you end up paying for it one way or another. The girl seems more emotionally mature than the people in this thread bashing her. 

I like it. It brings realism to the forefront.  Its her body, who gives a shit? I sell my body for 40+ hours a week for a small paycheck. She will trade her body for an hour for a huge paycheck.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 19, 2008)

KelJu said:


> Also, women have been using their body's to get what they want for a long time. If you are a guy, you end up paying for it one way or another. The girl seems more emotionally mature than the people in this thread bashing her.
> 
> I like it. It brings realism to the forefront.  Its her body, who gives a shit? I sell my body for 40+ hours a week for a small paycheck. She will trade her body for an hour for a huge paycheck.



this seems so cynical to me. to treat sex as a commodity just seems so...calous.


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## tucker01 (Sep 20, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> this seems so cynical to me. to treat sex as a commodity just seems so...calous.



Welcome to capitalism


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## bio-chem (Sep 20, 2008)

IainDaniel said:


> Welcome to capitalism



i don't think this is what Adam Smith had in mind.


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## BoneCrusher (Sep 20, 2008)

She's just a squirrel tryin' to get a nut same as the rest of us.  I do the same thing if I was here, so I can't really bag on the young lady.  I really doubt I'd be a female virgin at 22 though, so for me this just would not have been an option.

But I'd sell BC's cherry


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## KelJu (Sep 20, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> this seems so cynical to me. to treat sex as a commodity just seems so...calous.




Everything is a commodity. It is basic human behavior to trade some of what we have for what we don't have. Out there somewhere, there is a guy with a ton of money who has never had sexual intercourse with a virgin female that desperately wants to. Somewhere out there there is a virgin female with no money who desperately needs lots of money to farther her education and personal growth. 


For these two people to not link up would be a tragedy. I am not callous. I am realistic. I don't entertain bullshit notions that a biological function has some sort of sanctity. 

There is love, and then there is sex. Sex is just sex, and that is it. Sex is my need to shoot a load into some attractive female, and love isn't factored into that equation.


----------



## Gazhole (Sep 20, 2008)

KelJu said:


> Sex is my need to shoot a load into some attractive female, and love isn't factored into that equation.



This is an awesome sig-quote.


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## bio-chem (Sep 20, 2008)

KelJu said:


> Everything is a commodity. It is basic human behavior to trade some of what we have for what we don't have. Out there somewhere, there is a guy with a ton of money who has never had sexual intercourse with a virgin female that desperately wants to. Somewhere out there there is a virgin female with no money who desperately needs lots of money to farther her education and personal growth.
> 
> 
> For these two people to not link up would be a tragedy. I am not callous. I am realistic. I don't entertain bullshit notions that a biological function has some sort of sanctity.
> ...



Kelju that is awesome. "for these two people not to link up would be a tragedy" 

dude, you would totally be a guy I could hang out with.


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## Little Wing (Sep 20, 2008)

these guys are top in the bidding






















...


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## KelJu (Sep 20, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> Kelju that is awesome. "for these two people not to link up would be a tragedy"
> 
> dude, you would totally be a guy I could hang out with.




When I try to be funny, nobody laughs. When I am being dead serious, everyone cracks up.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 20, 2008)




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## bio-chem (Sep 20, 2008)

KelJu said:


> When I try to be funny, nobody laughs. When I am being dead serious, everyone cracks up.



dude, I know you were serious. thats part of what makes it so damn funny. I understand you don't believe the way I do. I can handle that. and I understand that it is this difference that causes the struggle of deciding what type of society we want to live in. but it doesn't take away from the fact that there is some real humor in these differences. I mean holy shit. this is the same thread that i joked about selling my virginity if I could get away with it.


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## maniclion (Sep 20, 2008)

Some corporation might see her as very enterprising and offer her a position after college, then she wouldn't have to work as a whore but once because she'll probably bank over a half a million on this deal....hell she may go onto start VirginBay where other girls who hold no value other than monetary to their virginity can sell their asset, maybe some guys will get in on the action.  Hell maybe some young stud may have had sex but his ass might be virgin gay men would flock to that.....I might start this goldmine of an opportunity any investors?????!!!!


----------



## Built (Sep 20, 2008)

KelJu said:


> There is love, and then there is sex. Sex is just sex, and that is it. Sex is my need to shoot a load into some attractive female, and love isn't factored into that equation.



KelJu defines the "um-friend". 

Used in a sentence: This is Barbara, my... um, "friend".


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 20, 2008)

Built said:


> KelJu defines the "um-friend".
> 
> Used in a sentence: This is Barbara, my... um, "friend".



i need one of those


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## maniclion (Sep 20, 2008)

Frienefits.net


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## bio-chem (Sep 20, 2008)

maniclion said:


> Frienefits.net


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## KelJu (Sep 20, 2008)

Built said:


> KelJu defines the "um-friend".
> 
> Used in a sentence: This is Barbara, my... um, "friend".




That is funny you said that. Just last weak I was over delivering some antiques I had restored for a doctor. I knew this doctor for years since he was a client of my boss's. When his nurse comes out of the bedroom, he looks at me and says, "oh this my um-friend".


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## KelJu (Sep 20, 2008)

maniclion said:


> Frienefits.net



Holy shit, what a great idea. I am registering an account right now.


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## Gazhole (Sep 21, 2008)

KelJu said:


> When I try to be funny, nobody laughs. When I am being dead serious, everyone cracks up.



Dont worry, ive been told im funniest when im pissed off and ranting about something


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 21, 2008)

This is crazy....If that girl can pay for school and or buy a new home just for 20 minutes of some guys pleasure then so be it. What is the big deal? I would do it. How many of us have slept with someone random for the sake of fun? Does that make it more ok then if someone gave you half a million for the same deed? I could be retired and living like a king if every person I fucked paid me half a million for it. As for girls that sell their body at "the ranch" or whatever. More power to them. It takes some sucker to spend his hard earned cash to have his fun, and if she is making huge money, and enjoying herself then so be it.

Lets be honest about another topic. If you went home with a random from a bar this past weekend and your parents found out about it...would they be any happier or more proud then if this person you took home handed you a stack of cash for it? Either way not many parents want to hear about their children having sex period. So its really not about making mom or dad proud of you.

As for relationships...some people can handle that and others cannot. Some people can live with the idea their spouse did this for money and would be ok letting her keep doing it, and others might be ok as long as she pursued another line of work, and others wouldn't be secure enough to deal with it at all. That is a personal choice the other person has to make.

In reality if the number of people we have all slept with was constantly lit up on our foreheads there would be a lot less people fucking to avoid other people seeing double and triple digits and running the other way.

If you are disease free and there is mutual attraction then play ball!


----------



## Bradicallyman (Sep 22, 2008)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> This is crazy....If that girl can pay for school and or buy a new home just for 20 minutes of some guys pleasure then so be it. What is the big deal? I would do it. How many of us have slept with someone random for the sake of fun? Does that make it more ok then if someone gave you half a million for the same deed? I could be retired and living like a king if every person I fucked paid me half a million for it. As for girls that sell their body at "the ranch" or whatever. More power to them. It takes some sucker to spend his hard earned cash to have his fun, and if she is making huge money, and enjoying herself then so be it.
> 
> Lets be honest about another topic. If you went home with a random from a bar this past weekend and your parents found out about it...would they be any happier or more proud then if this person you took home handed you a stack of cash for it? Either way not many parents want to hear about their children having sex period. So its really not about making mom or dad proud of you.
> 
> ...



I could not agree with you more. 

Strippers, porn stars, prostitutes, doctors, delivery drivers, professional athletes.... All professionals selling a set of skills that they have to simply pay the bills. A lot of them even do things some people might consider unethical... Thats life. I just saw something on tv talking about how a man was wrongfully accused and spent 26 years in jail because the lawyers who represented the real killer kept their mouths shut due to legal issues. 



bio-chem said:


> look up the list of endorphins that are released during sex. one of them is the same endorphine released just after child birth responsible for the mother/child bond. but thats cool. a woman should have those endorphines released with hundreds of men. that can't possibly have negative consequences.
> Prostitution is bad for the individual and bad for society.



So what are you saying about all women who have had sex with men other than the current/future father of her child? Is there a number of sexual partners women need to stay away from to avoid these "negative consequences" you speak of.




bio-chem said:


> so like i said the same chemical released in a mothers brain to bond her to her child is released during sex. we agree then so far. you really don't see a problem with this and prostitution? prostitution absolutely creates problems within an individual to form proper healthy relationships. both sexual and otherwise. and i just can't believe that someone can not see how porn and prostitution are detrimental to society? This should be just a natural known fact. something understood like the sun shines.




You talk about how prostitution creates problems in forming healthy relationships. Prostitution is just a short word for promiscuity with financial benefits lol. They are many people who have had multiple partners and one night stands (myself included), and have still been able to form healthy relationships. I will be the first to say that sex with my soon to be wife is the best because of that emotional bond we both share. But that does not mean that I didn't enjoy releasing endorphins with any previous partners. Surely did not influence my ability to form my current relationship. The only difference between a prostitute and myself is that I didn't get paid for being promiscuous. I understand that many people are against being promiscuous and there is nothing wrong with that, but I don't see how people that choose to do the opposite would cause harm to anybody else.

And how is porn detrimental to our society?! You choose not to watch it and that is your choice. Nobody is ever forced into viewing something they do not wish to view and that is the beauty of it. Detrimental to relationships... Sure if both parties are not on the same page. But it can also provide a spark to a relationship as well. Detrimental to the development of a young child? Possibly, but I believe that the more readily available violent cable programming is something that is more concerning. Also, by law, the minimum age to view porn is 18 anyways. Of course it is very hard to enforce this law over the internet but it is still there.



bio-chem said:


> sex is different that manual labor. scientifically this is fact. emotions become involved. and like i said its about family relationships we are talking about. you don't think this will effect her relationship with her father? When I was younger I drank. though i did it responsibly it still effected my mother. decisions we make still effect our friends and family around us. though it may not directly involve them.
> 
> no i do not purchase porn. i have seen it of course, but i dont purchase it or seek it out. and i make an effort to not view it when i do come across it. I dont petition my government against porn because i believe in freedom of the press and even though I have concerns with it, that becomes a difficult gray area to regulate.



They are different in terms of the actions performed on the job lol, but manual labor and prostitution (in nevada of course) are still both legal jobs. Like Built said, what profession doesn't involve emotions? Most artists are artists because the love what they do,their pieces have a lot of emotional involvement. What usually happens with those pieces? They are sold...

As for family relationships.... As a grown man, if you chose to go into a profession that your mother or father does not approve of, are you going to stray away from that profession? You might think about it, but I sure hope that you can make you own decision based on what you believe is best for you. Thats the great thing about being an individual, others may influence certain aspects of your life, but it is ultimately your decision to choose who you want to be, not who others want you to be. 

I for one would never pay for the services of a prostitute, and I do believe that it can be extremely dangerous, but if that is something that an individual chooses to do for whatever reason, then more power to her.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 22, 2008)

damn this thread is going to last longer than this girls virginity.

dude, none of your examples dealt with the issue at hand. they didn't prove a point. and ive already answered those same questions throughout this thread. it's cool though you think porn and prostitution are good and healthy for society. if you want to think of people in porn and prostitution, or those who pay for porn and prostitution as normal, healthy, well adjusted individuals thats cool. your off your damn rocker, but thats cool as well


----------



## MCx2 (Sep 22, 2008)

It's no fun anymore now that your opinion is the minority, eh?


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 22, 2008)

ReproMan said:


> It's no fun anymore now that your opinion is the minority, eh?



you obviously don't know me. i get off on it. it's just that my position is well stated and ive not seen any new examples. it's now just rehashing the same old stuff.


----------



## MCx2 (Sep 22, 2008)

No I understand that, you get off on trying to "win" debates. That is very clear. 

Opinions are opinions, and no matter how many times you attempt to discredit everyone by saying that what you are stating is the "rule" and what they are saying is the "exception", they are all still _opinions_.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 22, 2008)

i'm pretty sure if a promiscuous person and a prostitute lined up their lovers and had a look at them the prostitute would have a lot more chum in the line. that's a major part of the difference not having any sort of filter in your emotions, taste, judgment of personality etc to chose who you sleep with. what kind of men do you think need to pay whores? and i think the same guys defending it would honestly have a hard time if they found out a girl they were getting serious about used to sell her ass to whoever offered her a few bucks for it. what if she gets hard up for cash again? it's just a commodity right?


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 22, 2008)

supposedly that's one of the big appeals of pornstars and prostitutes to men. that woman's lack of caring "who" they fuck makes the john or guy watching porn lose their fear of rejection. she'll fuck literally _anyone_ so the guy doesn't have to put his fragile ego on the line with a girl that is using any sort of filtering system.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 22, 2008)

ReproMan said:


> No I understand that, you get off on trying to "win" debates. That is very clear.
> 
> Opinions are opinions, and no matter how many times you attempt to discredit everyone by saying that what you are stating is the "rule" and what they are saying is the "exception", they are all still _opinions_.



dude, it has nothing to do with "winning". i come to this forum because i like differing opinions. i enjoy witty banter and viewing things from the other side. it helps me develop my opinion. There are plenty of people on this board who i very often disagree with who i absolutely respect and enjoy reading what they have to say. kelju being one of them.

on this subject alone i think it is pretty safe to say that the majority of individuals in porn and prostitution and those who pay for these services have got some very serious issues to deal with. yes, there are exceptions to the rule. yet, it is well documented the serious physical and emotional trauma of the majority of individuals in porn and prostitution. How is this so hard to understand?


----------



## MCx2 (Sep 22, 2008)

It's not hard to understand, I completely understand your _opinion_. But whether this "emotional trauma" is a product of the industry or a pre-existing condition is and will more than likely always be up for debate. Like many have stated, there is emotional trauma in the workplace across the board. But in my opinion emotionally unstable individuals are more likely to find their way to the porn industry and prostitution, as opposed to the porn industry and prostitution being the cause of the emotional trauma.


----------



## Built (Sep 22, 2008)

Exactly. It's like the arguments about steroids causing "roid rage" - and don’t even get me started on all the hoopla surrounding marijuana being the "gateway substance" to harder drugs. 

Correlation does not imply causation.

The "gateway drug" theory falls flat because while most heroin users smoked pot, virtually ALL heroin-users drank MILK when they were children. Clearly milk-drinking is the root of all evil, right?

Same thing here. 

Besides, where do you draw the line? What if this woman sells it ONCE and then calls it a day? For half a million, I'd "retire" if I were in her shoes! 

Biochem, Littlewing - have you had more than one lover? If she retires after this one John, you'll still be the bigger whore, right?


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 22, 2008)

Built said:


> Exactly. It's like the arguments about steroids causing "roid rage" - and donâ??????t even get me started on all the hoopla surrounding marijuana being the "gateway substance" to harder drugs.
> 
> Correlation does not imply causation.
> 
> ...



Like i've already stated I don't believe in pre-maritial sex and I've followed that.

and i never said that porn or prostitution was the cause. i absolutely believe in many cases the trauma came first.

and i find your milk analogy to be ridiculous.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 22, 2008)

ReproMan said:


> It's not hard to understand, I completely understand your _opinion_. But whether this "emotional trauma" is a product of the industry or a pre-existing condition is and will more than likely always be up for debate. Like many have stated, there is emotional trauma in the workplace across the board. But in my opinion emotionally unstable individuals are more likely to find their way to the porn industry and prostitution, as opposed to the porn industry and prostitution being the cause of the emotional trauma.


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## DaMayor (Sep 22, 2008)

So, when is this auction over?


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## Built (Sep 22, 2008)

How come the milk analogy is ridiculous? It's the standard argument that refutes the stepping stone hypothesis for drug use.


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## Bradicallyman (Sep 22, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> damn this thread is going to last longer than this girls virginity.
> 
> dude, none of your examples dealt with the issue at hand. they didn't prove a point. and ive already answered those same questions throughout this thread. it's cool though you think porn and prostitution are good and healthy for society. if you want to think of people in porn and prostitution, or those who pay for porn and prostitution as normal, healthy, well adjusted individuals thats cool. your off your damn rocker, but thats cool as well



My fiancee and I enjoy viewing porn every once in awhile... How the hell does that make us abnormal and unhealthy individuals?!?!


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## DaMayor (Sep 22, 2008)

Bradicallyman said:


> My fiancee and I enjoy viewing porn every once in awhile... How the hell does that make us abnormal and unhealthy individuals?!?!



I think he meant the *habitual* use of porn, vs. *recreational* use of porn.


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## DaMayor (Sep 22, 2008)

Beating a dead whores.


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## Bradicallyman (Sep 22, 2008)

Built said:


> Biochem, Littlewing - have you had more than one lover? If she retires after this one John, you'll still be the bigger whore, right?



Exactly!

Biochem, the point I was trying to prove is that many people sleep around and have no problems whatsoever forming healthy relationships, myself included. I see no difference with prostitution and being able to form healthy relationships. Of course some men would not want to be with a girl who was formally a prostitute, but that is why we get to choose who we be with. Some girls would not choose to be with me after knowing how many partners I have been with. So I found someone who can look past that to the rest of my life with. Hell, I know of a few cops who were rejected after revealing their profession.


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## DaMayor (Sep 22, 2008)

Milk Munchies.






Milk Dealer


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## MCx2 (Sep 22, 2008)

bio-chem said:


>



Yes?

Don't even begin to act like you've been saying that the whole time or that I still don't "get it".


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## Little Wing (Sep 22, 2008)

Bradicallyman said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Biochem, the point I was trying to prove is that many people sleep around and have no problems whatsoever forming healthy relationships, myself included. I see no difference with prostitution and being able to form healthy relationships. Of course some men would not want to be with a girl who was formally a prostitute, but that is why we get to choose who we be with. Some girls would not choose to be with me after knowing how many partners I have been with. So I found someone who can look past that to the rest of my life with. Hell, I know of a few cops who were rejected after revealing their profession.



go hang out someplace like a male strip show or something where there are gross old fat horny women. fuck every one of them that wants to fuck you no matter how repulsive they are. then you will know what a whore does. tell us how it made you feel. better yet film it n post a link to it here since there's really nothing to be ashamed of it's just good business. we will look at your face while you're doing it n see if you look like the girls in piss mops do when fat old men are pissing in their faces... they try so hard to smile but you can see them dying inside.


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## Little Wing (Sep 22, 2008)

Built said:


> Biochem, Littlewing - have you had more than one lover? If she retires after this one John, you'll still be the bigger whore, right?





go hang out someplace like a  strip show or something where there are gross old fat horny men. fuck every one of them that wants to fuck you no matter how repulsive they are if they offer you money say yes period. then you will know what a whore does. tell us how it made you feel.  better yet film it n post a link to it here since there's really nothing to be ashamed of it's just good business. we will look at your face while you're doing it n see if you look like the girls in piss mops do when fat old men are pissing in their faces... they try so hard to smile but you can see them dying inside.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 22, 2008)

ReproMan said:


> Yes?
> 
> Don't even begin to act like you've been saying that the whole time or that I still don't "get it".



you really don't get it. im sorry for you. i really am.


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## MCx2 (Sep 22, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> you really don't get it. im sorry for you. i really am.


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## maniclion (Sep 22, 2008)

So we got women and some men who sell themselves for sex and they get looked down upon.  Then we have guys who are hired for their ability to lie better than your average person, these lies can steal an innocent mans freedom or even his life just because this person lied so well.  It could also mean that a cold blooded killer is freed from capture and goes out and kills 50 people before he is caught again.  These people get pats on the back for the best lies  ....while whores get shit for being best when they lie on their back...


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## bio-chem (Sep 22, 2008)

maniclion said:


> So we got women and some men who sell themselves for sex and they get looked down upon.  Then we have guys who are hired for their ability to lie better than your average person, these lies can steal an innocent mans freedom or even his life just because this person lied so well.  It could also mean that a cold blooded killer is freed from capture and goes out and kills 50 people before he is caught again.  These people get pats on the back for the best lies  ....while whores get shit for being best when they lie on their back...



I'm sorry. where are you going with this? I don't think anyone here is patting somone on the back for telling a lie


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## Bradicallyman (Sep 22, 2008)

Little Wing said:


> go hang out someplace like a  strip show or something where there are gross old fat horny men. fuck every one of them that wants to fuck you no matter how repulsive they are if they offer you money say yes period. then you will know what a whore does. tell us how it made you feel.  better yet film it n post a link to it here since there's really nothing to be ashamed of it's just good business. we will look at your face while you're doing it n see if you look like the girls in piss mops do when fat old men are pissing in their faces... they try so hard to smile but you can see them dying inside.



I have read that in other countries, women are forced into prostitution. I have not heard much of that in the US so I am assuming that "most" of these girls choose to do what they do. Some because they absolutely need the money and some because they love sex. Whatever reason they may have, it is still their choice. I never said that I myself would do what they do, yes I would be ashamed of myself. Just like I would be ashamed of myself if I were cleaning the toilets at said strip shows for a living. Doesn't mean that I am going to look down on janitors.


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## Built (Sep 22, 2008)

LittleWing - you were the one who played the numbers game so I'll ask you again. If the woman in question sells herself once for half a mil, and stops she'll have at that point only have ever had a single sex partner. 

Compare this with your own situation. 

Who's had more action?


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 22, 2008)

Built said:


> LittleWing - you were the one who played the numbers game so I'll ask you again. If the woman in question sells herself once for half a mil, and stops she'll have at that point only have ever had a single sex partner.
> 
> Compare this with your own situation.
> 
> Who's had more action?



Well apparently I don't qualify here, but i'll still share my thoughts. Even though I've not had sex I could still marry a girl who has. I could marry a girl who has been married previously and I could marry woman with a kid. I understand others do not have the same standards that I live by. Thats fine. This girl did have the same standards as I did for all of her life up until about 2 months ago it appears. I think numbers are only part of the equation. yes we all need to decide where to draw the line on what we find acceptable for previous number of sexual partners. This number is different for everyone. again that is fine. If anyone goes and re-reads this thread I have never labeled her a whore or slut or any other derogatory term. My disappointment lies solely in the fact that sex would be treated as a commodity.


----------



## Built (Sep 22, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> Well apparently I don't qualify here, but i'll still share my thoughts. Even though I've not had sex I could still marry a girl who has. I could marry a girl who has been married previously and I could marry woman with a kid. I understand others do not have the same standards that I live by. Thats fine. This girl did have the same standards as I did for all of her life up until about 2 months ago it appears. I think numbers are only part of the equation. yes we all need to decide where to draw the line on what we find acceptable for previous number of sexual partners. This number is different for everyone. again that is fine. If anyone goes and re-reads this thread I have never labeled her a whore or slut or any other derogatory term. My disappointment lies solely in the fact that sex would be treated as a commodity.



I can respect that - although you also offered to step up to the plate to sell off YOUR v-cardâ???¦  

Seriously, you live by the rules you respect, and that's very cool. 

(The fact that you will suck at sex on your wedding night is your future bride's problemâ???¦ ) *runs*


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## Little Wing (Sep 22, 2008)

Built said:


> LittleWing - you were the one who played the numbers game so I'll ask you again. If the woman in question sells herself once for half a mil, and stops she'll have at that point only have ever had a single sex partner.
> 
> Compare this with your own situation.
> 
> Who's had more action?



it has nothing to do with numbers just how low one would stoop for money. if you think letting some guy use you for a cum dumpster for cash is classy or acceptable that's up to you. i don't. and it doesn't matter if she fucked one person for money or killed one for money she's for sale.  to me that lowers her value as a human being.


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## Built (Sep 22, 2008)

Little Wing said:


> it has nothing to do with numbers just how low one would stoop for money. if you think letting some guy use you for a cum dumpster for cash is classy or acceptable that's up to you. i don't. and it doesn't matter if she fucked one person for money or killed one for money she's for sale.  to me that lowers her value as a human being.


See, I don't judge other women like that. But hey, you do. Now we know.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 22, 2008)

Built said:


> LittleWing - you were the one who played the numbers game so I'll ask you again. If the woman in question sells herself once for half a mil, and stops she'll have at that point only have ever had a single sex partner.
> 
> Compare this with your own situation.
> 
> Who's had more action?



i said bunch of guys or whatever but 1 is enough. you SELL yourself ONE time you will be a whore all your life. people say whore like it's a bad thing cuz it is. 


methinks the lady doth protest too much. why is it so important for you to defend this? she's doing something MOST people find disgusting.


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## Built (Sep 22, 2008)

Little Wing said:


> i said bunch of guys or whatever but 1 is enough. you SELL yourself ONE time you will be a whore all your life. people say whore like it's a bad thing cuz it is.
> 
> 
> methinks the lady doth protest too much. why is it so important for you to defend this? she's doing something MOST people find disgusting.



You're right. I ought to bow to pressure. Otherwise, I'm liable to be branded a scarlet woman!


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 22, 2008)

Built said:


> (The fact that you will suck at sex on your wedding night is your future bride's problemâ???¦ ) *runs*


please. thats the worst misconception ever. how was your first time? magical? some little 15 year old boy with no body writhing on you for 3 min with no warm up?

for the last 15 years i've been forced to perfect the art of sexual frustration. also known as forplay. my wife will get hers before i get mine. I'm not worried about that.


----------



## DaMayor (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm curious about this gal's psychological patholgy. Is she really just a young business woman exercising her given rights? Or is she the product of other circumstances that have led her to this point? I mean, really....isn't this all about bolstering her self esteem? Because it isn't about college expenses.

Anyway....grab a banana and read up....

"Some suggestive evidence comes from research published in Animal Behavior in December. Male macaques spend more time grooming females who are in heat, and the more time they spend, the more sex they get. Male monkeys also groom potential mates more diligently when fewer females are around, thus raising the prices. The researcher, Michael Gumert, describes grooming as a kind of currency.

*One sees a more obvious monkey correlate of prostitution in an experiment at Yale that went awry. Capuchins were taught to value tokens and exchange them for food, but when left to their own devices, and before the experimenters could stop them, the cheeky monkeys also demonstrated their willingness to exchange tokens with each other for nookie.*

So prostitution, or something like it, is very old. Does that mean we should legalize it? Maybe, but not necessarily. _Consider the naturalistic fallacy ("what is natural is good"). Is what's good for monkeys good for humans?  _After all, some types of monkeys kill infants. And others happily live in barrels.

Looking at the tradeoffs animals (and humans) make in the mating economy at least gives reason to widen the spectrum of what counts at prostitution, making the current definition arbitrary and perhaps meaningless. As Cacilda Jeth??¡ and Christopher Ryan write, "Classic Darwinian theory posits that the female of most mammalian species trade sexual fidelity for various things the male can offer: protection, status, meat, and so on. So, if we accept the basic assumptions of sexual selection theory, aren't pretty much ALL female mammals prostitutes?" 

from Prostitution: Older than Man | Psychology Today Blogs


"Estimates of the prevalence of incest among prostitutes range from 65% to 90%. The Council for Prostitution Alternatives, Portland, Oregon Annual Report in 1991 stated that: 85% of prostitute/clients reported history of sexual abuse in childhood; 70% reported incest. The higher percentages (80%-90%) of reports of incest and childhood sexual assaults of prostitutes come from anecdotal reports and from clinicians working with prostitutes (interviews with Nevada psychologists cited by Patricia Murphy, Making the Connections: women, work, and abuse, 1993, Paul M. Deutsch Press, Orlando, Florida; see also Rita Belton, "Prostitution as Traumatic Reenactment," 1992, International Society for Traumatic Stress Annual Meeting, Los Angeles, CA M.H. Silbert and A.M. Pines, 1982, "Victimization of street prostitutes," Victimology: An International Journal, 7: 122-133; C. Bagley and L Young, 1987, "Juvenile Prostitution and child sexual abuse: a controlled study," Canadian Journal of Community Mental Health, Vol 6: 5-26.) 

"About 80% of women in prostitution have been the victim of a rape. It's hard to talk about this because..the experience of prostitution is just like rape. Prostitutes are raped, on the average, eight to ten times per year. They are the most raped class of women in the history of our planet. " (Susan Kay Hunter and K.C. Reed, July, 1990 "Taking the side of bought and sold rape," speech at National Coalition against Sexual Assault, Washington, D.C. ) Other studies report 68% to 70% of women in prostitution being raped (M Silbert, "Compounding factors in the rape of street prostitutes," in A.W. Burgess, ed., Rape and Sexual Assault II, Garland Publishing, 1988; Melissa Farley and Howard Barkan, "Prostitution, Violence, and Posttraumatic Stress Disorder," 1998, Women & Health.)

Prostitution is an act of violence against women which is intrinsically traumatizing. In a study of 475 people in prostitution (including women, men, and the transgendered) from five countries (South Africa, Thailand, Turkey, USA, and Zambia): 

62% reported having been raped in prostitution. 73% reported having experienced physical assault in prostitution. 72% were currently or formerly homeless. 92% stated that they wanted to escape prostitution immediately. (Melissa Farley, Isin Baral, Merab Kiremire, Ufuk Sezgin, "Prostitution in Five Countries: Violence and Posttraumatic Stress Disorder" (1998) Feminism & Psychology 8 (4): 405-426)

A Canadian Report on Prostitution and Pornography concluded that girls and women in prostitution have a mortality rate 40 times higher than the national average. ( Special Committee on Pornography and Prostitution, 1985, Pornography and Prostitution in Canada 350.) In one study, 75% of women in escort prostitution had attempted suicide. Prostituted women comprised 15% of all completed suicides reported by hospitals. (Letter from Susan Kay Hunter, Council for Prostitution Alternatives, Jan 6, 1993, cited by Phyllis Chesler in "A Woman's Right to Self-Defense: the case of Aileen Carol Wuornos," in Patriarchy: Notes of an Expert Witness, 1994, Common Courage Press, Monroe, Maine.) "


*I used to see this a lot....*

"A number of years ago, psychologist Jay Belsky proposed an explanation for the finding that girls whose fathers abandon them tend to reach puberty early, and to exhibit increased promiscuity. Belsky suggested that girls exposed to high levels of stress, particularly due to paternal absence in early childhood, may often respond by becoming depressed and insecure, gaining weight and then experiencing accelerated puberty as a result of hormonal changes precipitated by the weight gain, and becoming sexually active with multiple partners and unstable relationships often resulting in early childbearing.

New research, however, suggests a more straightforward biological explanation for the link between paternal absence and both early puberty and promiscuity in girls. David Comings and colleagues tested 121 men and 164 women (not related to the men) for the presence of different variants of the X-linked androgen receptor (AR) gene. A "short" variant of the gene is believed to lead to enhanced androgen activity. (Androgens are steroid hormones that affect male sexual and behavioral characteristics, but also are present in women.) Comings et al. have previously shown an association between the shorter variants of the AR gene and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, conduct disorder, and oppositional defiant disorder.

The new study found that in male subjects, the shorter AR allele was associated with assaultive behavior, impulsiveness, sexual compulsiveness and increased number of sexual partners, and feelings of reduced internal control. In females, the presence of two copies of the short AR variant was associated with parental divorce, paternal absence during childhood, and early puberty.

The researchers say their data suggest a likely explanation for the link between paternal abandonment and early puberty in girls: "The behaviors in the fathers, manifested by marital conflict and abandonment, and in the daughters, manifested by early onset of puberty (precocious sexual activity, early age of childbearing, and disruptive personal relationships) are due to shared genes passed from the fathers to their daughters." They note that the involvement of an X-linked gene, passed on from fathers to daughters but not to sons (who inherit a Y chromosome from their fathers), could explain why paternal absence has a smaller effect on boys than on girls. 

In addition, they say, their findings could explain why girls whose fathers die do not experience the same changes in behavior and timing of puberty onset as girls whose fathers abandon them (since the fathers who die early would be no more likely to carry the short AR gene variant than would fathers in the general population). A genetic explanation also is consistent, they note, with the strong correlation between the age of puberty onset in mothers and their daughters."

from Crime Times- linking brain dysfunction to disordered/ criminal/ psychopathic behavior


----------



## MCx2 (Sep 22, 2008)

Built said:


> (The fact that you will suck at sex on your wedding night is your future bride's problemâ???¦ ) *runs*



LOL!!


----------



## Built (Sep 22, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> please. thats the worst misconception ever. how was your first time? magical? some little 15 year old boy with no body writhing on you for 3 min with no warm up?
> 
> for the last 15 years i've been forced to perfect the art of sexual frustration. also known as forplay. my wife will get hers before i get mine. I'm not worried about that.



I was teasing you! That was a joke!


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 22, 2008)

Built said:


> I was teasing you! That was a joke!



damn. i missed that one. all right. maybe im a little touchy. or frustrated.


----------



## Built (Sep 22, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> damn. i missed that one. all right. maybe im a little touchy. or frustrated.




*giggle*


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 22, 2008)

Built said:


> You're right. I ought to bow to pressure. Otherwise, I'm liable to be branded a scarlet woman!



it's kinda hard for me to believe you honestly wouldn't care if your life partner had sold themselves at one point or that you wouldn't feel at least some pang of sadness if your daughter made that choice. 

i read somewhere this john saying he wouldn't bathe for days before going to a hooker because he liked the added humiliation of her blowing him and licking his ass while he was filthy. 

i just don't understand why money is worth that lifestyle to anyone. and yes i judge pissmops. i wouldn't want to hang out with a woman that would fuck fat old men for a new pair of shoes anymore than i want to hang out with crack whores. or get in a relationship with a guy who'd screw my grandmother for cash. i care about the company i keep.


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## Built (Sep 22, 2008)

LittleWing, I really enjoy a good debate. It's something I find intellectually stimulating to challenge and be challenged through the application of logic and critical thinking. 

You really ought to try it sometime. I think you'd like it.


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## Little Wing (Sep 22, 2008)

Built said:


> LittleWing, I really enjoy a good debate. It's something I find intellectually stimulating to challenge and be challenged through the application of logic and critical thinking.
> 
> You really ought to try it sometime. I think you'd like it.



logically a woman who sells her ass is a whore. i'm very critical of this and think it's sad it is such a challenge to get more women to see themselves as too valuable to be used as some horny guy's toilet.


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## DaMayor (Sep 22, 2008)

I guess I'm just a big moral dummy...

never wuz gud at deebaiting anyhoo. lessin' yer talkin' bout knockin' a worm off a hook.


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## Built (Sep 22, 2008)

DaMayor said:


> I guess I'm just a big moral dummy...
> 
> never wuz gud at deebaiting anyhoo. lessin' yer talkin' bout knockin' a worm off a hook.


I love it!


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## bio-chem (Sep 22, 2008)

Built said:


> I love it!



don't encourage this.


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## DaMayor (Sep 22, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> don't encourage this.


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## Built (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm a bad influence. Ask ANYONE!!!


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## Little Wing (Sep 22, 2008)

DaMayor said:


> I guess I'm just a big moral dummy...
> 
> never wuz gud at deebaiting anyhoo. lessin' yer talkin' bout knockin' a worm off a hook.



the statistics in that article are just sad. i don't see how anyone can argue prostitution as a legitimate career choice for anyone. maybe the places where it is legal should have professional assessment teams to make sure a person interested in working there is really making a decision for the right reasons and not "cuz daddy raped me". but then who's going to determine why the john is there... maybe daddy raped him too


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## Little Wing (Sep 22, 2008)

Bradicallyman said:


> I have read that in other countries, women are forced into prostitution. I have not heard much of that in the US so I am assuming that "most" of these girls choose to do what they do. Some because they absolutely need the money and some because they love sex. Whatever reason they may have, it is still their choice. I never said that I myself would do what they do, yes I would be ashamed of myself. Just like I would be ashamed of myself if I were cleaning the toilets at said strip shows for a living. Doesn't mean that I am going to look down on janitors.



forced prostitution in the U.S.

it is estimated there are 8,000 child prostitutes in the US. i'd say that's a problem and i really doubt it's by choice or made with a healthy attitude about sex and money.


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## Little Wing (Sep 22, 2008)

Child Exploitation and Obscenity (CEOS): Child Prostitution - Domestic Sex Trafficking of Minors

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Although comprehensive research to document the number of children engaged in prostitution in the United States is lacking, it is estimated that about 293,000 American youth are currently at risk of becoming victims of commercial sexual exploitation.

[/SIZE][/FONT]from a us dept of justice web site.[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1][/SIZE][/FONT]


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## Built (Sep 22, 2008)

I agree. Nobody should be forced to do work they don't want to do, and the abuse of children is heinous beyond words. 

This subject of this thread is an adult woman working legally in the US of her own free will and paying taxes. She is also free to choose with whom she chooses to do business.


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## Bradicallyman (Sep 22, 2008)

Little Wing said:


> forced prostitution in the U.S.
> 
> it is estimated there are 8,000 child prostitutes in the US. i'd say that's a problem and i really doubt it's by choice or made with a healthy attitude about sex and money.



Thank you for the link. I was not aware of how widespread forced prostitution is. 

That doesn't change the fact that the girl we are discussing, and I'm sure many others, have chosen this lifestyle. A lifestyle that both you and I would never partake in, but who are we to judge and claim that certain lifestyles take away from a persons value?


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## bio-chem (Sep 22, 2008)

Built said:


> I agree. Nobody should be forced to do work they don't want to do, and the abuse of children is heinous beyond words.
> 
> This subject of this thread is an adult woman working legally in the US of her own free will and paying taxes. She is also free to choose with whom she chooses to do business.



it is only legal in 3 counties in the entire country. none of which she currently resides in.


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## Little Wing (Sep 22, 2008)

Built said:


> I agree. Nobody should be forced to do work they don't want to do, and the abuse of children is heinous beyond words.
> 
> This subject of this thread is an adult woman working legally in the US of her own free will and paying taxes. She is also free to choose with whom she chooses to do business.




i think it's probably rare to find a person who is really suited mentally and emotionally for that job. Here's one although she wrote about having sex with a dog once so i have doubts about her being mentally sound. 

some people actually enjoy eating bugs, that's not for me either. both are just too ikky and as much as it is her business and not really mine i think she's doing something very unsavory. maybe literally.


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## bio-chem (Sep 22, 2008)

Built said:


> LittleWing, I really enjoy a good debate. It's something I find intellectually stimulating to challenge and be challenged through the application of logic and critical thinking.
> 
> .


i totally agree with this. just with this topic im surprised. i dont see how it is possible to argue in favor of prostitution. to argue that it does not hurt the individual or society just confounds me.


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## Built (Sep 22, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> it is only legal in 3 counties in the entire country. none of which she currently resides in.



The drinking age varies by province here in Canada. Does that mean an 18 year old from Vancouver should not be allowed to drink while in Montr??©al? How about people who go to Vegas to gamble, or people who live in dry counties going out of town to party?

My understanding is that she will be moving there to do business. I don't see your point.  



Little Wing said:


> as much as it is her business and not really mine i think she's doing something very unsavory. maybe literally.



I find people who work for Big Tobacco to be doing something that is very unsavoury. 

I could not in good conscience work for an industry that deliberately targets and markets to children to ensure continuing sales of a product that is harmful when used as directed. I respond by refusing to smoke. None of my friends smoke. I don't let anyone smoke in my house or my car. 

I find the fashion industry unsavoury. I respond by refusing to allow fashion magazines to enter my home. 

Do you see how simple it is? Just don't buy it if you don't like it. And if you feel strongly enough that it should not be legal, fight to change legislation.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 22, 2008)

I am not going to go back and quote people from the last three pages but I have a few thoughts to throw out there.

Most of us lost our virginity in some random act and probably wasn't love, or most likely a totally skewed idea of love

I am single and rather then sleep around I play a lot...at times two or three times a day. Some days not at all.  It’s typically to watching some form of porn or replaying previous sexual experiences from my past in my head...if you ask me that is still porn but only I can watch it  I do not consider that unhealthy at all. I do not expect my partners to live up to the fake BS scenes from porn I have watched. So I do not have some abnormal view on what sex really is.

I cannot give a reference to this, but I have read that STD's among "working women" is far less common then in the general population. Protected sex is pretty strictly enforced in that line of work, and I would venture to say most men wouldn't have it any other way. So if you want to break it down you are more likely to slip up on the weekend and sleep with the girl next door and catch something.

As for the issue of this girl giving her virginity up to gain financially isn't all that bad when you consider most of us got nothing out of it...not even a lasting relationship. To take that one step further I was in the Navy and knew a mormon kid that was raised very strict and home schooled...He lost his virginity in Thailand in a massage brothel. If I had to throw labels on who wins it would be the girl getting paid the 500K for it vs. the kid that lost it to a girl he will never see again, know her first name, and had to pay for it....talk about a story to tell your kids about how daddy lost his virginity!


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## Little Wing (Sep 22, 2008)

Built said:


> Nobody should be forced to do work they don't want to do.












i disagree


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## bio-chem (Sep 22, 2008)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> I cannot give a reference to this, but I have read that STD's among "working women" is far less common then in the general population. Protected sex is pretty strictly enforced in that line of work, and I would venture to say most men wouldn't have it any other way. So if you want to break it down you are more likely to slip up on the weekend and sleep with the girl next door and catch something.





please tell me you believe this.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 22, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> it is only legal in 3 counties in the entire country. none of which she currently resides in.



In my state 17 is the legal age of consent....if I am not mistaken, and Built could probably verify or shoot down this, but in Canada, or at least in Ontario the legal age is or was 14.    SOOOOO lets say I went to Ontario and slept with a 14 year old (wouldn't ever do that) is that wrong since where I live the girl has to be 17 to consent? Pretty much the same argument as her going where it's legal to do what she wants. Or even aside from sex...Am I wrong for smoking weed in Amsterdam since I can't do it legally here in the US...ever heard when in Rome do as the Romans do?



bio-chem said:


> i totally agree with this. just with this topic im surprised. i dont see how it is possible to argue in favor of prostitution. to argue that it does not hurt the individual or society just confounds me.



To only use this argument for prostitution is SUPER lame bro...no offense. Nobody here is saying they are in favor of anything. If anything its just about passing judgment on another person's choices. There are many things out there not "good" for us by many peopleâ??????s standards. The only people touched by Prostitution in a controlled environment such as the Ranch are guy spending his cash, and the girl taking it. Nobody is forcing either of them to be there. If she ends up regretting her career later that is on her...if he loses his wife when she sees what he spend $800 on while in Vegas that is on him. Let face it a LOT of things could have a negative impact on your life, and that isn't up to us to tell others it is ok or not to be involved. Drinking at a bar is not productive, but millions do it daily...Me saying its ok for someone to go straight to the bar after a day of work is not saying I am in favor of doing it. That is me saying who am I to say it's wrong. If you don't like it then don't do it....if you don't like porn don't watch it...if you don't like sex then don't have it...but don't sit and judge others for doing something they feel is ok. The ONLY time I feel like anyone has a right to pass judgment on another person is when their actions directly endanger the life or hurt another human or animal.


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## Built (Sep 22, 2008)

Little Wing said:


> i disagree




I stand corrected! 

Really digging the pink t-shirts...


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## Little Wing (Sep 22, 2008)

In Nevada's licensed brothels, by law, prostitutes prior to working MUST be screened for Chlamydia, Gonorrhea, Syphilis, and HIV. If they are found positive for Chlamydia, Gonorrhea, or Syphilis, they cannot begin work until they are adequately treated, followed-up, and test negative on a subsequent test.  For HIV, they are barred from working for life.  There have been brothel applicants who have tested positive for HIV.  Because of their HIV positive status, they were prohibited from working at all. 


  Under Nevada law, once a prostitute begins working in the legal brothels, they are tested weekly for Chlamydia and Gonorrhea, and monthly for Syphilis and HIV.   If they are found positive for Chlamydia, Gonorrhea, or Syphilis, they are immediately prohibited from working, and cannot return to work until they are adequately treated, followed-up, and test negative on a subsequent test.  For HIV, they would be immediately barred from working for life. *

To date, no actively working legal brothel prostitute has ever tested HIV positive.  However, from time to time, there are cases of Chlamydia, Gonorrhea and rarely Syphilis, among active brothel workers.  Chlamydia is the most common STD seen, however this is not a surprise, since Chlamydia is the most common STD in the USA overall. *

  Nevada law also requires that latex condoms must be used during all sexual activity.   

*However, even with the mandatory testing, and mandatory condom use, we cannot guarantee that a person won't get HIV or other Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STD's).  This is for two reasons.  First, although condoms used consistently and correctly will significantly reduce the risk of HIV/STD's, they are not 100% protection.  They can sometimes break, slip off, or leak. Also, it's impossible to test for every STD ahead of time.  And STD's won't immediately show positive on a test.  For example, for diseases like Chlamydia, Gonorrhea and Syphilis, it may take several weeks before the person shows positive on the test.  In the case of HIV, it can take as long as 6 months to show positive on the test.  So we cannot guarantee that any prostitute will ever be free of HIV/STD's.   *


  However we can say that in Nevada's legal brothels, the risks are MUCH less than going to any other prostitute in the USA. This is because these prostitutes are tested more than any other person for HIV and other STD's.  And they cannot work if they are positive.  Also, they must use latex condoms during all sexual actitivies.  Illegal prostitutes often don't use condoms, and they don't have to get tested for anything.  This includes prostitutes working for escort services and massage parlors.

*Having sex with a legal prostitute can often be safer than having sex with a woman you met in a bar or at a party. This is again because many non-prostitutes don't use protection and don't get tested like legal prostitutes do.  But they can still have multiple, even numerous, sexual partners. *

*In summary, you cannot assume a "registered" prostitute is free of HIV or other STD's.  Some may get tested, others not.  You still need to ALWAYS use condoms with ALL of them, regardless of their legal status.*   If you have any further questions, please feel free to call the Centers for Disease Control at 1.800.232.4636 (Nationwide). Rick Sowadsky MSPH CDS


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## bio-chem (Sep 22, 2008)

Built said:


> The drinking age varies by province here in Canada. Does that mean an 18 year old from Vancouver should not be allowed to drink while in Montr??©al? How about people who go to Vegas to gamble, or people who live in dry counties going out of town to party?
> 
> My understanding is that she will be moving there to do business. I don't see your point.
> 
> ...


you have posted this line of reasoning multiple times. i think it is safe to say that everyone here who has spoken out against prostitution has not supported this in any form. and has yes indeed fought against it politically.

and i hardly consider a plane ride across the country to a brothel "moving" to do buisness. my point is that this practice is illegal currently in america except for a very small area in a fixed region of the united states. there is a reason for its illegality throughout the US.

prostitution is dangerous to society and individuals. STD's are higher among prostitutes not lower. And prostitutes do not discriminate between married and unmarried men. So now we have women with a high level of abuse and trauma in their background working in a dangerous environment spreading disease. How many girls grow up wanting to be a prostitute? there is a reason for that.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 22, 2008)

-- The U.S. Department of Health consistently reports that only 3-5% of the sexually transmitted disease in this country is related to prostitution (compared with 30-35% among teenagers). There is no statistical indication in the U.S. that prostitutes are vectors of HIV. Although a small percentage of prostitutes may be HIV positive, William Darrow, CDC AIDS epidemiology official, cites no proven cases of HIV transmission from prostitutes to clients.(8)


In addition to what Little Wing put above most cases of HIV and other STDs were passed on to working girls through "non paying clients"....this would be like a boyfriend...the guy at the club etc..

When I stated prostitutes are less likely to carry an STD I was not referring to "street walkers"....I was referring to going to a legit place of business. As mentioned above they get regular testing, and to top it off you cannot even get a BJ in a place like that without using a condom....sounds safer then what most of us practice at home.


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## Built (Sep 22, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> you have posted this line of reasoning multiple times. i think it is safe to say that everyone here who has spoken out against prostitution has not supported this in any form. and has yes indeed fought against it politically.
> 
> and i hardly consider a plane ride across the country to a brothel "moving" to do buisness.


Then what is it? A paid vacation?



> my point is that this practice is illegal currently in america except for a very small area in a fixed region of the united states. there is a reason for its illegality throughout the US.


How about gambling?



> prostitution is dangerous to society and individuals.



Proof?





> STD's are higher among prostitutes not lower.



Proof?



> And prostitutes do not discriminate between married and unmarried men.


Neither do lots of single women in any given bar. Married men have this... mystique... 


> So now we have women with a high level of abuse and trauma in their background working in a dangerous environment spreading disease.



What trauma did this particular woman grow up with, how dangerous is it to work in a legal brothel in Nevada, and what disease is she spreading? She's a virgin.





> How many girls grow up wanting to be a prostitute? there is a reason for that.


How many people grow up wanting to work as garbage collectors? There's a reason for that. 

Should collecting garbage be a crime?

By the way, smoking has been shown without a shadow of a doubt to be harmful to individuals and to society. What is your opinion of a person's right to choose to smoke?


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## bio-chem (Sep 22, 2008)

dear god woman. look at any statistics. prostitutes have higher levels of std's. stats have already been shown on this thread about raped women and physical violence to women working in prostitution to be at higher levels than the normal population......you have had all of the proof you need. this is really just getting asinine.

i absolutely support the restriction of smoking. and i believe insurance companies should be charging ridiculous charges to individuals who place themselves at higher risk. smokers, fatties, drinkers you name it I want lower rates for taking care of myself. I also don't want to have to smell it when im at a restaurant so i support all legislation prohibiting smoking indoors.


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## Little Wing (Sep 22, 2008)

My home town.

became state law sept 1st.


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## KelJu (Sep 22, 2008)

I am about 99% sure that biochem is talking out of his ass on this one. Show me some proof, and not some anecdotal story about girls who turned to prostitution because they had no family life. I want numbers. I want research. I want data. 

I have seen documentaries about 2 dollar whores who are all fucked up. I have also seen documentaries about high class prostitutes working at the bunny ranch who have a very good attitude about what they do.

There is a huge difference between women walking the streets and women working in a structured environment with rules and regulations. 

Seems to me that people are just being judgmental because this is a subject that goes against their personal beliefs. I would give some rich old woman some ding-o-ling if the price was right. I almost did once, but the opportunity went away before I jumped on it.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 22, 2008)

Not everyone involved in "seedy" business like porn, and escort services are low life losers.

Ron Jeremy earned a bachelor's degree in Education and Theater and a Master's degree in Special Education while going to Queen's College, City University of New York. He was a substitute teacher for regular classes and a he taught Special Education class in New York City. 


Hmmm doesn't sound like a fucked up person to me...


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## Built (Sep 22, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> dear god woman. look at any statistics. prostitutes have higher levels of std's. stats have already been shown on this thread about raped women and physical violence to women working in prostitution to be at higher levels than the normal population......you have had all of the proof you need. this is really just getting asinine.


That's for illegal prostitution. I want to know what the stats are for legal prostitution.

When drinking was illegal, only criminals sold alcohol. Being in the business of manufacturing alcoholic beverages was dangerous and seedy. 

Kinda different from how it is now. 





> i absolutely support the restriction of smoking. and i believe insurance companies should be charging ridiculous charges to individuals who place themselves at higher risk. smokers, fatties, drinkers you name it I want lower rates for taking care of myself. I also don't want to have to smell it when im at a restaurant so i support all legislation prohibiting smoking indoors.



Why not just make it illegal?


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## Little Wing (Sep 23, 2008)

Women Selling Their Virginity | The Frisky


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## bio-chem (Sep 23, 2008)

Built said:


> That's for illegal prostitution. I want to know what the stats are for legal prostitution.
> 
> When drinking was illegal, only criminals sold alcohol. Being in the business of manufacturing alcoholic beverages was dangerous and seedy.
> 
> ...



400 years of history is hard to break.


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## Built (Sep 23, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> 400 years of history is hard to break.



<cough> world's oldest profession <cough>


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## bio-chem (Sep 23, 2008)

Built said:


> <cough> world's oldest profession <cough>



I thought you were talking about making tobacco illegal in the US in that post. my bad.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 23, 2008)

No sex is really free when you get to the bottom line of it...When all you guys take a girl out to get to know them you are just begging to score...you buy her a nice dinner, get her flowers....you do all these things to wow her and to gain her interest. It works and you get laid...you just paid for sex...maybe you got a relationship out of it, but on the flip side if you didn't take her out and spend that $ getting to know her you'd be at home with your pud in your hand wishing you had a girlfriend.

And smoking is a dead issue...if you think its bad for you then don't do it...same goes for drinking....and anything else for that matter. Its like fat people on the beach...if they offend you then stop looking at them.


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## Built (Sep 23, 2008)

Built said:


> <cough> world's oldest profession <cough>





bio-chem said:


> I thought you were talking about making tobacco illegal in the US in that post. my bad.




We were. You offered 400 years of history. 

How long have there been prostitutes? By your own argument, they stay too!


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## bio-chem (Sep 23, 2008)

Built said:


> We were. You offered 400 years of history.
> 
> How long have there been prostitutes? By your own argument, they stay too!



i really don't think so. prostitution has a history of being illegal. tobacco doesn't.


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## Built (Sep 23, 2008)

I know.

Which one causes more deaths each year?


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## bio-chem (Sep 23, 2008)

Built said:


> I know.
> 
> Which one causes more deaths each year?



im not sure where you are going with this? ive already stated im against both. i dont smoke or solicit prostitutes


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## Built (Sep 23, 2008)

I seriously can't understand how cigarettes are still legal. Thank God you can't smoke indoors in any public building in Vancouver anymore.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 24, 2008)

Bio she has you there...smoking is for worse for mankind then sleeping with a call girl....I doubt even a measurable amount of people die yearly due to call girls....cancer....I don't think that needs to be explained.


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