# liver support absolutely necessary for 4 week dbol



## banker23 (Oct 15, 2011)

starting a 12 week test e cycle in a few weeks with a 4 week dbol kicker at 40mg/day. Aromasin at 12.5 eod (to start will increase if necessary) and hcg at 500mg twice a week.

I have never been a drinker of any kind and I don't take any medications. I drink about 1.5 gallons of water a day. I have seen some that say liver support is not necessary for a short run of dbol and can actually hamper the effectiveness. Liver seems to be a champ. values always come out real clean.

What are everyone's thoughts on this? Do I need to run a UDCA or TUDCA anyways?


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## anxious1 (Oct 15, 2011)

HCG at 500mg, or IU? 

Liver support is always a good idea, yet if you can have weekly tests ran and keep a close eye on it, then it may not be needed for a 4 week cycle.


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## irish_2003 (Oct 15, 2011)

too many times liver toxicity is overstated.....the problem is that an individual doesn't really know how much they're individually affected internally by a compound....and this varies from person to person.....some are good without protective aids, others need and should use everything at their disposal....


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## exphys88 (Oct 15, 2011)

Is there any science that suggests that liver support does anything?  And, testimonials don't amount to scientific proof.


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## anxious1 (Oct 15, 2011)

^^ I am fairly sure I saw a report awhile back that showed three different studies providing lab results on three different test groups involving OTC meds. Granted these were not UGL steroids, yet prescribed meds. 

The tests showed liver values were substantially better than the control group in which both underwent LONG-TERM treatments. (long-term = 4 months or more)

I will try to look for this report.


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## dsc123 (Oct 15, 2011)

Why risk it?


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## deadlifter405 (Oct 15, 2011)

And besides, liver support supplements are always a good idea.  There's enough crap in our food and the environment in general that our livers handle for us as it is.  Why risk more stress on the liver without taking a liver support?


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## exphys88 (Oct 15, 2011)

deadlifter405 said:


> And besides, liver support supplements are always a good idea.  There's enough crap in our food and the environment in general that our livers handle for us as it is.  Why risk more stress on the liver without taking a liver support?



What convinced you that taking liver supplements makes your liver healthier and helps rid our body of "crap" in our environment?


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## squigader (Oct 15, 2011)

You'll be ok for 4 weeks. If you want to go 6, pick up some liver support. Don't drink, take unnecessary medications, etc.


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## ANIMALHAUS (Oct 16, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> too many times liver toxicity is overstated.....the problem is that an individual doesn't really know how much they're individually affected internally by a compound....and this varies from person to person.....some are good without protective aids, others need and should use everything at their disposal....



This.


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## Digitalash (Oct 16, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> too many times liver toxicity is overstated.....the problem is that an individual doesn't really know how much they're individually affected internally by a compound....and this varies from person to person.....some are good without protective aids, others need and should use everything at their disposal....


 


exphysiologist88 said:


> Is there any science that suggests that liver support does anything? And, testimonials don't amount to scientific proof.


 
these^

I'm not convinced milk thistle and the like have any positive effect on the liver, and I've also heard that increased liver enzymes are not necessarily indicative of actual liver damage, just that the liver is working harder

if anything your liver will heal quickly after you stop using orals, given that you haven't totally overdone it and done serious damage, which I think is unlikely


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## banker23 (Oct 16, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> HCG at 500mg, or IU?
> 
> Liver support is always a good idea, yet if you can have weekly tests ran and keep a close eye on it, then it may not be needed for a 4 week cycle.



iu. just a typo never seen anyone actually reference mg for hcg.


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## Chrisotpherm (Oct 16, 2011)

Bro,
I would relax after reading all this info.  All the above have mad experience and big hitters in here trying to help you.  I too believe that milk thistle isn't the best IMO.  I use liver care and lots and lots of water.  Cranberry juice is good for the liver too if your into juice.  Just have to watch the additives and sugar.  Get the light if you can.


God Bless
Chris


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## TGB1987 (Oct 16, 2011)

I always Use IronMagLabs advanced Cycle Support.  On cycle I use 4 caps spread throughout the day with meals.  On a cruise or off cycle I use 2 caps a day with food.  I really like this product.  Why not use support supplements?  They do help from my experiences with them.  Best way to tell is to get blood work done.  Dianabol, as others have said, is not going to cause an issue for most people but if you have hep C, a bad liver for some reason, an alcoholic, or using prescription meds that may be hard on the liver like accutane or anitfungals then I would try to avoid oral AAS's all together.  If not then go for it but use a support supplement if you are able to afford the extra protection.


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## banker23 (Oct 17, 2011)

Chrisotpherm said:


> Bro,
> I would relax after reading all this info. All the above have mad experience and big hitters in here trying to help you. I too believe that milk thistle isn't the best IMO. I use liver care and lots and lots of water. Cranberry juice is good for the liver too if your into juice. Just have to watch the additives and sugar. Get the light if you can.
> 
> 
> ...


 
Yeah I appreciate the reponses from all...I was pretty sure I would be fine with what I plan on running. Even though there is a variety of opinion on the subject it's good to confirm I am not too far out in left field even though there are two well established camps of thought on the subject.

Thanks again. cranberry juice is always a good thing too so thanks for the reminder been awhile since I've taken it regularly.


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## pieguy (Oct 17, 2011)

4 weeks is fine. Way overstated. On another note, unless you're lucky as hell, I doubt your 12.5mg eod will work out for long. I'd say a bare minimum 12.5mg ed, but only blood test can show for sure. I use 25mg twice a day when on test+dbol. No gyno symptoms either.


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## exphys88 (Oct 17, 2011)

pieguy said:


> 4 weeks is fine. Way overstated. On another note, unless you're lucky as hell, I doubt your 12.5mg eod will work out for long. I'd say a bare minimum 12.5mg ed, but only blood test can show for sure. I use 25mg twice a day when on test+dbol. No gyno symptoms either.



I agree with this, most guys dose aromasin too low.  I also need 25 mg every 12 hours with test and dbol.


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## banker23 (Oct 17, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> I agree with this, most guys dose aromasin too low. I also need 25 mg every 12 hours with test and dbol.


 
thanks Ill have enough to run at 25mg ed if needed and still have some left over.


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## lifterjaydawg (Oct 17, 2011)

I would not want to risk it, if you can get some liver support than why not use it. I like using UDCA, great for the liver.


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## Ezskanken (Nov 21, 2011)

Bump for update on if you decided on liver support or not, and if you got bloods.  Take it ez bro...


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## sofargone561 (Nov 21, 2011)

advanced cycle support get some its cheap!


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## GMO (Nov 21, 2011)

I want to preface this by saying I have an extremely resilient liver.  That being said, I have NEVER had my liver enzymes out of range and I run orals to death.  Yes, I believe in most cases the potential damage is overrated, but there are some people who simply cannot handle long periods of 17aa orals.

For only 4 weeks of dbol, you should be just fine...


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## banker23 (Nov 22, 2011)

Ezskanken said:


> Bump for update on if you decided on liver support or not, and if you got bloods. Take it ez bro...


 
I only have a little over a week left on the dbol and I decided on no liver support at 40mg a day. If I were running a higher dose or for a longer period I might have decided differently.

I made this decision with the knowledge that my liver is pretty much a beast and I've never abused it with alcohol or long term medications. I had it tested before taking a 90 day lamisil regimen last year and tested again 30 days after finishing it so I made this decision based on some medical input so I think it's the right one for me. I drink on average between 1-2 gallons of water so that is just extra insurance while I am still on the oral.

So far no bloating or aromatization symptoms running aromasin at 12.5mg eod. Strength increase has been impressive: bench press 280x5 11/5/2011 and I just did 320x5 with assistance on last rep on 11/20/2011 (40 lbs increase in just two weeks).

Should I expect to lose some strength after stopping the dbol? Or should the test e be picking up the slack by then?


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## vannesb (Nov 22, 2011)

banker23 said:


> starting a 12 week test e cycle in a few weeks with a 4 week dbol kicker at 40mg/day. Aromasin at 12.5 eod (to start will increase if necessary) and hcg at 500mg twice a week.
> 
> I have never been a drinker of any kind and I don't take any medications. I drink about 1.5 gallons of water a day. I have seen some that say liver support is not necessary for a short run of dbol and can actually hamper the effectiveness. Liver seems to be a champ. values always come out real clean.
> 
> What are everyone's thoughts on this? Do I need to run a UDCA or TUDCA anyways?


 
Not 100% sure but not worth the risk.  There are several things out there, I like the advance Cycle support, its a little expensive but worth it.


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## SloppyJ (Nov 22, 2011)

I've been conditioning my liver for a long time now.


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## Vibrant (Nov 22, 2011)

SloppyJ said:


> I've been conditioning my liver for a long time now.



Please tell us your regimen.



I hope it's not


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## SloppyJ (Nov 22, 2011)

Vibrant said:


> Please tell us your regimen.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope it's not


 

When I first hit college it was. That and pain meds.


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