# Coffee and effects on hypertrophy



## danzik17 (Jul 24, 2008)

From what I've gathered from reading many posts, a lot of people prefer to drink coffee before working out due to the stimulus that it gives from the caffeine it contains.

I think something that many people are overlooking is the idea that although caffeine helps with an energy burst, coffee also has the side effect of raising Cortisol which as we know is definitely bad for....anything.

So my question is, how much do you think the cortisol raising effects of coffee affect your ability to both burn fat and build muscle, and do those effects outweigh the potential benefits of the caffeine?

(Yea, all of this can be avoided by simply drinking tea)


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## fufu (Jul 24, 2008)

Small factor, I wouldn't worry about it unless you are drinking enourmous amounts.


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## Witchblade (Jul 24, 2008)

Coffee has a great placebo effect. 

The result on your health is personal and vague.


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## Merkaba (Jul 24, 2008)

I will murder a small rodent at least for a cup of good home ground home brewed coffee!!!


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## dirtcake1 (Jul 25, 2008)

I don't drink it before working out but, I consume 4-6 cups daily and I'm in the best shape of my life.


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## fufu (Jul 25, 2008)

dirtcake1 said:


> I don't drink it before working out but, I consume 4-6 cups daily and I'm in the best shape of my life.



why so much coffee?


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## dirtcake1 (Jul 25, 2008)

Because I love it, naturally. Never touch sodas, just water and coffee.


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## fufu (Jul 25, 2008)

Well of course you love it. I love pizza but I don't eat it several times a day.

What I am getting at is - have you considered the possibility of caffiene dependency and adrenal "burnout" from drinking that much coffee?

Not trying to rain on your parade.


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## cpush (Jul 25, 2008)

what's "adrenal burnout"


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## danzik17 (Jul 25, 2008)

Go off coffee cold turkey one day and you'll find out.

I was like that my junior year of college and when I stopped drinking coffee I could barely move for like 3-4 days.  I just slept like 14 hours a day.


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## cpush (Jul 25, 2008)

I also drink around 4 cups of coffee a day, and have been doing so on and off for the past few years.

There had been a few times when I quit cold turkey for a couple of weeks to see its effect on my overall health.  When I hadn't noticed too much of a difference I went back.

This summer I got a physically demanding fulltime job at a door factory.  I gave up coffee, cold turkey (from 4 cups daily) so I could work everyday using "real" energy.  I didn't notice a difference and for some reason went through no withdrawal.  I've since started drinking it again.

It is concerning to read some of these arguments on its negative impact on the adrenal gland.  My question is, after it "burns it out" or depletes it, does quitting such a high caffeine intake return it to normal?  Or is it forever damaged?

Some doctors argue the caffeine in coffee impact is negligible and has no affect on the adrenal glands.  Always two sides to the coin, hmm..

I also read the adrenal glands can be part responsible for water retention.  So can having a fatigued adrenal gland cause higher water retention?


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## fufu (Jul 25, 2008)

adrenal burnout


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## Witchblade (Jul 26, 2008)

danzik17 said:


> Go off coffee cold turkey one day and you'll find out.
> 
> I was like that my junior year of college and when I stopped drinking coffee I could barely move for like 3-4 days.  I just slept like 14 hours a day.


Addiction to coffee is one of my greatest concerns. It happens unnoticeably and very soon.


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## Merkaba (Jul 26, 2008)

I like a good caffeine spike....If I quit cold turkey the most I get is a mild headache.


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## dirtcake1 (Jul 26, 2008)

Hey fufu, comparing pizza(probably the unhealthiest food on the planet to coffee) is baseless. I read the article on adrenal burnout and noticed more mention of vigorous exercise as a cause than caffeine. If that's true I guess we're all in trouble. At any rate I have been on and off coffee for 25 years and while I do notice some minor withdrawal symptoms without it(mild headache, irratibility), my energy level remains the same.


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## fufu (Jul 26, 2008)

dirtcake1 said:


> Hey fufu, comparing pizza(probably the unhealthiest food on the planet to coffee) is baseless. I read the article on adrenal burnout and noticed more mention of vigorous exercise as a cause than caffeine. If that's true I guess we're all in trouble. At any rate I have been on and off coffee for 25 years and while I do notice some minor withdrawal symptoms without it(mild headache, irratibility), my energy level remains the same.



You totally missed my comparison.

My point was just because you love something doesn't mean it is healthy  consume/do it everyday. 

It seems you are preoccupied finding points to disagree on.

I never said you would suffer from adrenal burnout, I just asked if you had considered the possibility. 

No further comment.


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## KelJu (Jul 26, 2008)

fufu said:


> adrenal burnout



Hey bud. I was concerned with my amount of coffee intake. I have a few questions about that write-up. They call Alcohol a stimulant and say it will lead to adrenal burnout. That simply can't be true. 

Also, I am a coffee addict. I need it to function properly. Is there a certain amount that experts say is within a healthy range of consumption?  

The symptoms of adrenal burnout are vague. How would I know if I am falling victim? I don't seem to have energy problems at the gym.


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## dirtcake1 (Jul 26, 2008)

I only disagreed because too much unproven nutritional information is going around these days and coffee has been on the hit list for 30 years. Sorry about seeming argumentative but I hadn't had my coffee yet!


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## KelJu (Jul 26, 2008)

dirtcake1 said:


> I only disagreed because too much unproven nutritional information is going around these days and coffee has been on the hit list for 30 years. Sorry about seeming argumentative but I hadn't had my coffee yet!



Coffee has been around for more than 1000 years. Coffee has fueled the hopes and dreams of champions. Give me coffee or give me death.


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## dirtcake1 (Jul 26, 2008)

nuff said Dr. I gotta get a pot going right now.


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## fufu (Jul 26, 2008)

KelJu said:


> Hey bud. I was concerned with my amount of coffee intake. I have a few questions about that write-up. They call Alcohol a stimulant and say it will lead to adrenal burnout. That simply can't be true.
> 
> Also, I am a coffee addict. I need it to function properly. Is there a certain amount that experts say is within a healthy range of consumption?
> 
> The symptoms of adrenal burnout are vague. How would I know if I am falling victim? I don't seem to have energy problems at the gym.



Yeah that bit can't be true, sorry for posting a shitty article. Although I don't doubt chronic alcohol consumption would be a contributing factor.

As far as dosage, that is subjective to the individual like most things. I really don't know.

Alot of people have their endocrine regulation all out of whack. It's often already off rhythm, people take substance X to replace down regulation of substance Y, then they need substance B for the residual affects of substance X, then over time they creates a need for substance A. 

I think it is a good idea for people to be aware of what they put in their body chronically. 

Like I said earlier, there are many small factors that shouldn't be addressed because one would just go compulsively insane over time. Somethings, however, can play a pretty big picture.


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## DaMayor (Jul 26, 2008)

Maybe not the best article on the subject, but generally what I have seen.

Caffeine Can Decrease Insulin Sensitivity in Humans -- Keijzers et al. 25 (2): 364 -- Diabetes Care

and this might not be entirely applicable re: coffee and hypertrophy because they discuss caffeine used in conjunction with ephedrine and aspirin, but not a completely wasted read.

Muscle Growth and Fat Loss by Stimulating the Beta-Agonist System - The Role of Ephedrine, Caffeine, and Aspirin


I love coffee. In my business, I sometimes cannot live without it. But I have noticed negative effects over the years, ranging from reduced insulin sensitivity/interference with "weight" loss, to a sort of toxicity/overload after consuming large quantities (3-4 cups per day or more) for an extended period of time.


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## dirtcake1 (Jul 26, 2008)

Found this interesting.     


Coffee Health - Coffee Risk


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## Built (Jul 27, 2008)

Most of you probably know this, but for the newbs: insulin resistance is HELPFUL while cutting. You WANT it. It's part of how the EC stack works - by inducing insulin resistance, you have a harder time storing muscle glycogen - which means what glucose you have is available for the brain, and your muscles have to "switch tanks" and look elsewhere for energy to burn: fat stores.


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## Witchblade (Jul 27, 2008)

Built said:


> Most of you probably know this, but for the newbs: insulin resistance is HELPFUL while cutting. You WANT it. It's part of how the EC stack works - by inducing insulin resistance, you have a harder time storing muscle glycogen - which means what glucose you have is available for the brain, and your muscles have to "switch tanks" and look elsewhere for energy to burn: fat stores.


Would you willingly induce insulin resistance to your body just for cutting? Sounds hard and unhealthy. Also, I haven't seen any data that proves insulin resistance results in greater weight loss.


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## Built (Jul 27, 2008)

Insulin resistance is what happens automatically when you diet. It's temporary - not the same thing as the kind that happens from poor lifestyle. Read Lyle McDonald for more on this.

Lyle McDonald Jamie Hale Diet Interview


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## Witchblade (Jul 28, 2008)

Gotcha, I thought you were actually talking about eating crappy foods and using supplements to artificially create it.


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## Built (Jul 28, 2008)

Witchblade said:


> Gotcha, I thought you were actually talking about eating crappy foods and using supplements to artificially create it.



We were. Well, supplements at least. EC, hell even GH induces insulin resistance. That's how they work.


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## DaMayor (Jul 28, 2008)

Did I just confuse insulin sensitivity with insulin resistance?


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## Built (Jul 28, 2008)

I don't think so. Insulin resistance is decreased insulin sensitivity.


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## DaMayor (Jul 28, 2008)

please excuse my brain flatulence.


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