# Occupy Wall Street



## Big Smoothy (Sep 28, 2011)

Small yes, but it took the US mainstream media 9 days to notice.

Hope it spreads, and as much shit is spread as possible.

Hopefully this thread will grow.


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## ebn2002 (Sep 28, 2011)

what?


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## Big Pimpin (Sep 28, 2011)




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## REDDOG309 (Sep 28, 2011)

they are planning this for philly right now. there was a story in the local paper yesterday.


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## Big Pimpin (Sep 28, 2011)

Is this one of those flash mobs?


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## irish_2003 (Sep 28, 2011)

leave my money alone you peasants!!!


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## IronAddict (Sep 28, 2011)

Excercising the rights of democracy, finally!

I guess people are tired of being shitted on by wall street and corporate ceo's and the politicians who do whatever they ask.

I know I am.


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## Big Pimpin (Sep 28, 2011)

WTF are you kids talking about?


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## Big Pimpin (Sep 28, 2011)

YouTube Video


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## IronAddict (Sep 28, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> WTF are you kids talking about?



Here ya go, Pimp.

https://occupywallst.org/


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## ebn2002 (Sep 28, 2011)

It's not working my commission is still rolling in


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## Dale Mabry (Sep 28, 2011)

REDDOG309 said:


> they are planning this for philly right now. there was a story in the local paper yesterday.



Nice, I'm gonna get baked and head in to the city that day.


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## ExLe (Sep 28, 2011)

Didn't some bitches get pepper sprayed...


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## REDDOG309 (Sep 28, 2011)

Dale Mabry said:


> Nice, I'm gonna get baked and head in to the city that day.



Holla


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## TonyMack (Sep 28, 2011)

They're in the wrong city, they should be in DC


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## LAM (Sep 28, 2011)

still far too much ignorance in the US, far too many have been educated by tv and think they know what's going on because a politician told them some "facts", freaking retards.   ultimately nothing in the US changes until the problem with lobbying is addressed which nobody ever seems to mention.


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## ExLe (Sep 28, 2011)

TonyMack said:


> They're in the wrong city, they should be in DC


 


But all these hippies wouldn't dare do this to the anointed one...


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## Dale Mabry (Sep 28, 2011)

ExLe said:


> But all these hippies wouldn't dare do this to the anointed one...



I think you'd be surprised at how many people you think support him actually don't. He's terrible, yes, but any reasonably intelligent person knows that giving more money to people who currently aren't spending it on American jobs because it isn't in their company's best interest isn't going to work for our economy. Lower the corporate tax rate to zero, it will still be cheaper to pay an Indian person $3/hr for 60 hours a week and no medical benefits and no regulations than to pay an American $15/hr for 40 hours + overtime + medical benefits, + vacation +a regulation that they don't use lead paint. The republican would allow lead paint, slash the minimum wage, and have each one of us pay for own medical coverage because eventually that is going to be the biggest driver of a corporations costs. No thanks.


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## meow (Sep 28, 2011)

ExLe said:


> But all these hippies wouldn't dare do this to the anointed one...



Lol..repped.


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## Big Pimpin (Sep 28, 2011)

Dale Mabry said:


> I think you'd be surprised at how many people you think support him actually don't. He's terrible, yes, but any reasonably intelligent person knows that giving more money to people who currently aren't spending it on American jobs because it isn't in their company's best interest isn't going to work for our economy. Lower the corporate tax rate to zero, it will still be cheaper to pay an Indian person $3/hr for 60 hours a week and no medical benefits and no regulations than to pay an American $15/hr for 40 hours + overtime + medical benefits, + vacation +a regulation that they don't use lead paint. The republican would allow lead paint, slash the minimum wage, and have each one of us pay for own medical coverage because eventually that is going to be the biggest driver of a corporations costs. No thanks.



And the Democrat(s) had 2 years to right this sinking ship and only made it worse.  

Cut the partisan nonsense because that's what the DC politicians want....you to hate me because I vote one way and me to hate you because you vote another.  Regardless of our views, it's my opinion as pleabs we're all on the same team:  US vs. D.C.


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## LAM (Sep 28, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> And the Democrat(s) had 2 years to right this sinking ship and only made it worse.
> 
> Cut the partisan nonsense because that's what the DC politicians want....you to hate me because I vote one way and me to hate you because you vote another.  Regardless of our views, it's my opinion as pleabs we're all on the same team:  US vs. D.C.



what does 2 years have to do with anything?  

it typically takes 5 years after a banking crisis for an economy to pick up.  all this stuff is economic recovery history yet people for some reason people neglect the reports and writings of economists/academia.   stupid american's think that this was just another recession but that is no surprise since most of the country gets all their information from the economy from televised media sources.

recession history shows that when there is fiscal contraction of government spending (stimulus) during recession recovery when unemployment is still high it makes recession recovery longer and slower.  they have been writing reports from the EPI about this stuff for decades now. but the GOP as usual disregards facts and data to go in their anti-spending rant when the US middle class just lost trillions in home wealth after the weakest economic expansion in 60 years that occurred before the banking collapse.

so partisan politics from the right have once again screwed the American people but not doing what was originally common practice after every single recession in the US.  so they can perpetrate the fraud once again by "trying" to look fiscally responsible.


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## irish_2003 (Sep 28, 2011)

if you can't beat them join them.....you all need to quit your bitching and make the personal decision to make money instead of blaming and waiting for shit to happen....i'm not mad at any of these wealthy people.....i'm mad that i didn't jump aboard sooner....fuck all the poor, entitlement, someone will take care of me people and generation....you're all leeches on society and are always bitching and making excuses and blamine yet never putting anything into action to change YOUR situation....fuck off and get out of my way while I do something about MY situation....


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## Dark Geared God (Sep 28, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> leave my money alone you peasants!!!


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## Big Smoothy (Sep 28, 2011)

Talk about DC and politicians.  Sure.  But Wall Street controls Washington.

People over the age of 50 are toast.  And the 20-somethings may never find gainful employment. 

The more you learn about what Wall Street has done, the uglier and more depressing it is.


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## LAM (Sep 28, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> if you can't beat them join them.....you all need to quit your bitching and make the personal decision to make money instead of blaming and waiting for shit to happen....i'm not mad at any of these wealthy people.....i'm mad that i didn't jump aboard sooner....fuck all the poor, entitlement, someone will take care of me people and generation....you're all leeches on society and are always bitching and making excuses and blamine yet never putting anything into action to change YOUR situation....fuck off and get out of my way while I do something about MY situation....



any people like you are exactly why problems go from bad to worst..you have the old Reagan attitude..fuck everybody else as long as have mine.

as stupid as you are you are lucky to be in the healthcare industry as you would not make it in most others...salary's in the healthcare industry pay higher than most so you can get off your high horse as it has nothing at all to do with you, your financial success is only because of the industry you  work in.


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## LAM (Sep 28, 2011)

*What the US should be doing but won't....*

February 13, 2009
In Japan???s Stagnant Decade, Cautionary Tales for America
By HIROKO TABUCHI

TOKYO ??? The Obama administration is committing huge sums of money to rescuing banks, but the veterans of Japan???s banking crisis have three words for the Americans: more money, faster.

The Japanese have been here before. They endured a ???lost decade??? of economic stagnation in the 1990s as their banks labored under crippling debt, and successive governments wasted trillions of yen on half-measures.

Only in 2003 did the government finally take the actions that helped lead to a recovery: forcing major banks to submit to merciless audits and declare bad debts; spending two trillion yen to effectively nationalize a major bank, wiping out its shareholders; and allowing weaker banks to fail.

By then, Tokyo???s main Nikkei stock index had lost almost three-quarters of its value. The country???s public debt had grown to exceed its gross domestic product, and deflation stalked the land. In the end, real estate prices fell for 15 consecutive years.

More alarming? Some students of the Japanese debacle say they see a similar train wreck heading for the United States.

???I thought America had studied Japan???s failures,??? said Hirofumi Gomi, a top official at Japan???s Financial Services Agency during the crisis. ???Why is it making the same mistakes????

Many American critics of the plan unveiled Tuesday by Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner said the plan lacked details. Experts on Japan found it timid ??? especially given the size of the banking crisis the administration faces.

???I think they know how big it is, but they don???t want to say how big it is. It???s so big they can???t acknowledge it,??? said John H. Makin, an economist at the American Enterprise Institute, referring to administration officials. ???The lesson from Japan in the 1990s was that they should have stepped up and nationalized the banks.???

Instead, the Japanese first tried many of the same remedies that the Bush administration tried and the Obama administration is trying ??? ultra-low interest rates, fiscal stimulus and ineffective cash infusions, among other things. The Japanese even tried to tap private capital to buy some of the bad assets from banks, as Mr. Geithner proposed.

One reason Japan???s leaders were so ineffectual for so long was their fear of stoking public outrage. With each act of the bailout, anger grew, making politicians more reluctant to force real reform, which only delayed the day of reckoning and increased the ultimate price tag. Japanese taxpayers are estimated to have recouped less than half what it cost the government to bail out the banks.

A further lesson from Japan is that the bank rescue will determine the fate of the wider economy. While President Obama has prioritized his stimulus plan, no stimulus is likely to succeed unless the banking sector is repaired.

The Japanese crisis of the 1990s and early 2000s had roots similar to the American crisis: a real estate bubble that collapsed, leaving banks holding trillions of yen in loans that were virtually worthless.

Initially, Japan???s leaders underestimated how badly the real estate collapse would hurt the country???s banks. As in the United States, a policy of easy money had fueled both stock and real estate speculation, as well as reckless lending by banks.

Many in Japan thought that low interest rates and economic stimulus measures would help banks recover on their own. In late 1997, however, a string of bank failures set off a crippling credit crisis.

Prodded into action, the government injected 1.8 trillion yen into Japan???s main banks. But the injections ??? too small, poorly planned and based on little understanding of the extent of the banking sector???s woes ??? failed to stem the growing crisis.

Fearing more bad news if banks were forced to disclose their real losses, Japan???s leaders allowed banks to keep loans to ???zombie??? companies on their balance sheets.

Japan, instead, experimented with a series of funds, in part privately financed, to relieve banks of their bad assets.

The funds brought limited results at best, says Takeo Hoshi, economics professor at the University of California, San Diego. For one thing, the funds were too small to make an impact. The depository for bad loans had no orderly way to sell them off. And the purchases that did take place failed to recapitalize banks because the bad assets were priced so low.

So far, the Obama administration???s plan avoids the hardest decisions, like nationalizing banks, wiping out shareholders or allowing banks to collapse under the weight of their own bad debts. In the end, Japan had to do all those things.

Economists say these blunders meant Japan???s financial system did not start to recover until late 2002, six years after the crisis broke. That year, the government of the reformist leader Junichiro Koizumi ordered a tough audit of the country???s top banks.

Called the Takenaka Plan after Heizo Takenaka, who headed the government???s financial reform efforts, the move finally brought the full extent of bad loans to light. Initially, banks lashed out at Mr. Takenaka. ???The government can???t order bank management to do this and that,??? Yoshifumi Nishikawa, president of the Sumitomo Mitsui Financial Group, complained to the press in October 2002. ???It???s absolutely absurd.???

But Mr. Takenaka stood firm. His rallying cry, he said in an interview on Wednesday, was, ???Don???t cover up. Don???t distort principles. Follow the rules.???

???I told the banks clearly, ???I am in a position to supervise you,??? ??? Mr. Takenaka said. ???I told them I am not open to negotiation.???

It took three more years to finally get the majority of bad loans off the banks??? books. Resona Bank, which was found to have insufficient capital, was effectively nationalized.

From 1992 to 2005, Japanese banks wrote off about 96 trillion yen, or about 19 percent of the country???s annual G.D.P. But Mr. Takenaka???s toughness restored faith in the banks.

???That was a turning point in the banking crisis,??? said Mr. Gomi of the Financial Services Agency, who worked with Mr. Takenaka on the audits.

By then, other factors had fallen into place that aided economic recovery, including a boom in exports to the United States and China.

(Those very share holdings would come back to haunt banks, as the recent market sell-off batters their balance sheets. And as the economy worsens, bad loans are again on the rise, the Financial Services Agency said Tuesday.)

The United States will probably not be able to count on growing demand for its products, since the global economy is worsening.

???The way things are going right now,??? said Mr. Hoshi, ???the U.S. taxpayers??? burden will keep going up and up.??? 

Lessons From Japan in Stemming a Crisis - NYTimes.com


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## KelJu (Sep 28, 2011)

The funny part of this meaningless charade is they did it on a non-business day.


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## Big Smoothy (Sep 28, 2011)

^ There is a possibility it could grow and spread.  Might not.

But the _possibility_ is what's intrigueing. 

(Americans are, after all, quite passive.)


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## LAM (Sep 28, 2011)

Big Smoothy said:


> ^ There is a possibility it could grow and spread.  Might not.
> 
> But the _possibility_ is what's intrigueing.
> 
> (Americans are, after all, quite passive.)



there really haven't been any big time nationwide rally's since the Vietnam years, close to 40 years.


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## blergs. (Sep 28, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> leave my money alone you peasants!!!


HAHAHAHAHAHA lol


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## Big Pimpin (Sep 29, 2011)

LAM said:


> what does 2 years have to do with anything?
> 
> it typically takes 5 years after a banking crisis for an economy to pick up.  all this stuff is economic recovery history yet people for some reason people neglect the reports and writings of economists/academia.   stupid american's think that this was just another recession but that is no surprise since most of the country gets all their information from the economy from televised media sources.
> 
> ...



Quit making excuses.  United we stand and divided we fall.  Until people get off this things will be better when my party is in power trip and come together as one unified electorate, we'll just keep going through this cyclical power and money grab.

Take a step back and realize while your neighbor may vote differently than you, he really has the same core goals and aspirations for him and his family as you do and those goals will be harder to achieve the bigger and more corrupt our government gets.


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## Dale Mabry (Sep 29, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> Take a step back and realize while your neighbor may vote differently than you, he really has the same core goals and aspirations for him and his family as you do and those goals will be harder to achieve the bigger and more corrupt our government gets.



Yeah, but who cares if he has the same goals as you if he is a retard and votes because he doesn't want queers to marry or women to get abortions?


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## Zaphod (Sep 29, 2011)

With a couple of exceptions that are of the "as long as I've got mine fuck all of you" mentality everyone is pretty much in agreement.  

Wall Street is the correct place to protest.  Unfortunately it was not a regular business day, apparently.  Baby steps, I guess.  Had they really wanted to make an impact they should have gotten out at 3am Monday morning, surround the block and keep people from entering the exchanges.  That would send the right message.  Business and banking interests won't notice until you hit them right where it hurts most, the wallet.


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## Big Pimpin (Sep 29, 2011)

Dale Mabry said:


> Yeah, but who cares if he has the same goals as you if he is a retard and votes because he doesn't want queers to marry or women to get abortions?


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## Dale Mabry (Sep 29, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> And the Democrat(s) had 2 years to right this sinking ship and only made it worse.
> 
> Cut the partisan nonsense because that's what the DC politicians want....you to hate me because I vote one way and me to hate you because you vote another.  Regardless of our views, it's my opinion as pleabs we're all on the same team:  US vs. D.C.



It's not partisan, that is exactly what will happen. I don't care who you vote for, if you think putting a republican in the top spot is the best way that's your business. I have absolutely no idea how you could come to that conclusion, but how you form your opinions is none of my business. I am certain that giving more money to wall street is not the answer, and that is exactly what will happen if the GOP takes control. It's what being an American is like in a global economy. I would never enter the rat race, your boss is far more likely to cut you loose than to minutely affect his standard of living. No amount of money is going to be enough. We lent them $800 billion to increase lending and they used it to buy up companies and expand overseas, what do you think they are going to do if you cut their taxes?


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## LAM (Sep 29, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> Quit making excuses.  United we stand and divided we fall.  Until people get off this things will be better when my party is in power trip and come together as one unified electorate, we'll just keep going through this cyclical power and money grab.
> 
> Take a step back and realize while your neighbor may vote differently than you, he really has the same core goals and aspirations for him and his family as you do and those goals will be harder to achieve the bigger and more corrupt our government gets.



they are not excuses but economic facts...since 1980 the GOP has done everything in it's power to smash labor and to put more power into the hands of capital, which it doesn't need it.  one of the main reasons why the US economy is fucked up right now is because it is not balanced, there is far to much emphasis on capital and investment which are self-serving.  and this is why every time the GOP gets into power the share of the national income that goes to labor declines.  it has nothing to do with the markets it is strictly economic policy...numbers don't like only the people that make them.  the GOP wants to smash labor and basically defund the democrats eventually moving the US to a one party system where the banks and corps have all the political power.

Nonfarm Business Sector: Labor Share (PRS85006173) - FRED - St. Louis Fed

Carter 1977-1981
Reagan 1981-1989
GHB 1989-1993
Clinton 1993-2001
GWB 2001-2009
Obama 2009-


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## LAM (Sep 29, 2011)

*More bad news for bank customers: Debit card fees*

NEW YORK (AP) -- Bank of America will start charging debit-card users $5 a month to pay for purchases. The move comes as the cards increasingly replace cash and as banks look for ways to offset the loss of revenue from a new rule that will limit how much they can collect from merchants.

Paying to use a debit card was unheard of before this year and is still a novel concept for many consumers. But several banks have recently introduced or started testing debit card fees. That's in addition to the spate of other unwelcome changes checking account customers have seen in the past year. Bank of America will begin charging the fee early next year.

Bank of America's announcement carries added weight because it is the largest U.S. bank by deposits.

The fee will apply to basic accounts, which are marketed toward those with modest balances, and will be in addition to any existing monthly service fees. For example, one such account charges a $12 monthly fee unless customers meet certain conditions, such as maintaining a minimum average balance of $1,500.

Customers will only be charged the fee if they use their debit cards for purchases in any given month, said Anne Pace, a Bank of America spokeswoman. Those who only use their cards at ATMs won't have to pay.

The debit card fee is just the latest twist in the rapidly evolving market for checking accounts.

A study by Bankrate.com this week found that just 45 percent of checking accounts are now free with no strings attached, down from 65 percent last year and 76 percent in 2009. Customers can still get free checking in most cases, but only if they meet certain conditions, such as setting up direct deposit.

The study also found that the total average cost for using an ATM rose to $3.81, from $3.74, the year before. The average overdraft fee inched up to $30.83, from $30.47

The changes come ahead of a regulation that goes into effect next month.

Starting Oct. 1, the regulation will cap the fees that banks can collect from merchants whenever customers swipe their debit cards. Those fees generated $19 billion in revenue for banks in 2009, according to the Nilson Report, which tracks the payments industry.

There is no similar cap on the merchant fees that banks can collect when customers use their credit cards, however. That means many banks are increasingly encouraging customers to reach for their credit cards, in hopes of reversing a trend toward debit card usage in the past several years.

An increasing reliance on credit cards would be particularly beneficial for big institutions like Bank of America, which have large credit card portfolios, notes Bart Narter, a banking analyst with Celent, a consulting firm.

"It's become a more profitable business, at least in relation to debit cards," Narter said.

This summer, an Associated Press-GfK poll found that two-thirds of consumers use debit cards more frequently than credit cards. But when asked how they would react if they were charged a $3 monthly debit card fee, 61 percent said they'd find another way to pay.

With a $5 fee, 66 percent said they would change their payment method.

Several banks are nevertheless moving ahead with debit card fees.

SunTrust, a regional bank based in Atlanta, began charging a $5 debit card fee on its basic checking accounts this summer. Regions Financial, which is based in Birmingham, Ala., plans to start charging a $4 fee next month.

Chase and Wells Fargo are also testing $3 monthly debit card fees in select markets. Neither bank has said when it will make a final decision on whether to roll out the fee more broadly.

The growing prevalence of the debit card fee is alarming for Josh Wood, a 32-year-old financial adviser in Amarillo, Texas.

Wood relies entirely on debit cards to avoid interest charges on a credit card. If his bank, Wells Fargo, began charging a debit card fee, he said he would take his business to a credit union.

If a debit fee became so prevalent that it was unavoidable, Wood said he's not sure how he'd react.

"I might use all cash. Or go back to writing checks," he said.

Bank of America's debit card fee will be rolled out in stages starting with select states in early 2012. The company would not say which states would be affected first.

More bad news for bank customers: Debit card fees - Yahoo! Finance

* BOA is the biggest piece of shit bank on the planet!  I fucking hated doing business with them in in the 90's when i was writing loans and I fucking hate them even more now.  everybody needs to pull all their money out of BOA and put it in the local credit union, etc.  any place but in those piece of shits hands...


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## LAM (Sep 29, 2011)

Citi_Too_Big_To_Fail_June_14_2011_Testimony

"The mere enactment of the Dodd-Frank Act did not end the concept of "too big to fail" in the market's eyes.  In January, after the Dodd-Frank Act's enactment, Standard & Poor's ("S&P") and Moody's Investor Service ("Moody's"), announced it's intention to make permanent the prospect of Governnent support as a factor in determining a banks's ccredit rating.  According to S&P, "We believe that banking crisis will happen again.  We expect this pattern of banking sector boom & bust and government support to repeat itself in some fashion, regardless of governments' recent and emerging policy response."  In it's ratings, Moody's has assumed Government support for the eight largest banking organizations.  As long as the financial institutions, counterparties, and rating agencies believe there will be future bailouts, competitive advantages associated with "too big to fail" designated institutions will amlmost certainly persist.  As long as the market perceives future bailouts, market discipline will be reduced as creditors, investors and counterparties have less incentive to monitor those institutions they believe the Governmnet will save in the future.  Restoring market discipline may be necessarily tied to ending "too big to fail"."


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## ebn2002 (Sep 30, 2011)

I actually agree, BAC is a POS and the Merrill merger was a terrible idea, so was countrywide.  These shit banks should be allowed to go under, survival of the fittest.  Citigroup and BAC are worthless without a government checkbook.


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## Chubby (Sep 30, 2011)

Nothing will make a differences, only another bigbang will.


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## Big Smoothy (Sep 30, 2011)

Chubby said:


> Nothing will make a differences, only another bigbang will.



OK....
Please eludidate.....


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## dogsoldier (Sep 30, 2011)

They have been there how long now, 12 days?  Most of those folks have no place to wash, they are pissing along the road side, I don't even want to think where they are taking a dump. I will bet that street smells just wonderful.


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## Big Smoothy (Oct 15, 2011)

Worth a bump....it's still continuing.....


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## irish_2003 (Oct 15, 2011)

NOBODY READS REALLY LONG POSTS.....stop it


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## LAM (Oct 15, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> NOBODY READS REALLY LONG POSTS.....stop it



especially not you..god forbid if you actually learned something.  this is why America is rapidly falling behind the other countries, people are lazy.  everybody stops learning once they are finished formal schooling that's why those that stop learning get left behind and get taken advantage of by those that do not.


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## irish_2003 (Oct 15, 2011)

LAM said:


> especially not you..god forbid if you actually learned something.  this is why America is rapidly falling behind the other countries, people are lazy.  everybody stops learning once they are finished formal schooling that's why those that stop learning get left behind and get taken advantage of by those that do not.



trust me, there's plenty of CEU's (both required and voluntary) to keep up with....more money is the greatest incentive for being a hardworker.....something the irish bloodlines have....WORK ETHIC!!! 

but the digital age has shortened the attention span for everyone....that's more what i was commenting on with long posts...we prefer quick, short, to the point information, in black and white with no gray


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## anxious1 (Oct 15, 2011)

Most of those people that are participating have no clue what truly goes on in government. The inner-politics that are involved. 

If people truly expect change, you can't achieve that from simply standing or walking down Wall Street. Yes it'll draw attention to it, but not change the issues at hand. 

If they truly desire change, they need to change it from within. Ex... Become a politician, policymaker of some sort, or someone who can truly implement, and spur change. 

In my line of work, I see varying stories that are released to, and manipulate the public's opinion. All we can do as concerned citizens, is strive to become the driving force IMPLEMENTING change, not the ones demanding it.


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## LAM (Oct 15, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> Most of those people that are participating have no clue what truly goes on in government. The inner-politics that are involved.
> 
> If people truly expect change, you can't achieve that from simply standing or walking down Wall Street. Yes it'll draw attention to it, but not change the issues at hand.
> 
> ...



true but at least this is a start, much better than just grabbing the ankles and taking it up the ass w/o even getting a reach around.  these types of protests haven't been seen in the US since the days of Vietnam.

younger generations are being born into a society with fewer and fewer opportunity's.


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## anxious1 (Oct 15, 2011)

LAM said:


> true but at least this is a start, much better than just grabbing the ankles and taking it up the ass w/o even getting a reach around.  these types of protests haven't been seen in the US since the days of Vietnam.
> 
> younger generations are being born into a society with fewer and fewer opportunity's.




These protests have been seen post-Vietnam. 
If you would like, I can post links from google.  I do agree that it is a starting point however, and that it is nice to see people being proactive. Yet am disappointed at the amount of the people participating who are oblivious to true events, and causes.

Kids today are born with more and more opportunities, but are not pushed to strive for them. Parenting now days is totally different than it was 40 years ago. The world amazingly is a more humane place than it used to be, more accepting, and receptive. Kids can go to college for free if they are determined, they can start a business for next to nothing down, or even become a pro athlete... The point is that they just are self defeatists, and don't strive for success.


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## LAM (Oct 15, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> Kids today are born with more and more opportunities, but are not pushed to strive for them.



not sure what world you live in but here in the US in 2011 in a reality based world you are lucky to have one POS job.  back in 60's to the mid 90's a person living in a metro area could easily get a 2nd job to help bring up the income or pay down debts, etc. those day are long gone, never to return.  

back in the 70's one college educated male working full time could buy a home, have a car and raise a small family all on one income and save money.   it takes 2 full time workers in 2011 to make the same amount in income that one male worker did in the early 70's.  opportunity in the US is not increasing it is rapidly decreasing. a shrinking GDP growth is a sign of a failing economy and the real growth of the GDP in the US has been steadily declining the past 30+ years.

in the last decade 100% of the real income growth went to the top 1%.  financial markets and investment capital markets as they are run today are totally self-serving.  the GDP of the US has increased from about 2T in 1970 to 14T in 2010 yet the US has the highest rate of child poverty in the OECD only 2nd to Mexico and Turkey and we have the highest percentage of low paid workers in the OECD at 25% of the US labor force.  We also have the largest under-employed labor force in the OECD at 20%, which means that 20% of the people in the labor force are either not working as much as they would like or are working in a job that doesn't require a college degree but they are college educated.


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## lnvanry (Oct 15, 2011)

ebn2002 said:


> I actually agree, BAC is a POS and the Merrill merger was a terrible idea, so was countrywide.  These shit banks should be allowed to go under, survival of the fittest.  Citigroup and BAC are worthless without a government checkbook.



you do realize that if they go under...it was adversely impact a very large chunk out of the manufacturing sector that banks with them.

to big to fail, isn't just some lobbying slogan.


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## anxious1 (Oct 15, 2011)

My response in bold.


LAM said:


> not sure what world you live in but here in the US in 2011 in a reality based world you are lucky to have one POS job.  back in 60's to the mid 90's a person living in a metro area could easily get a 2nd job to help bring up the income or pay down debts, etc. those day are long gone, never to return.
> 
> *Post-WWI to WWII- A much worse economic state than we are in now. So terrible that the possession of gold was outlawed by order of the president. They did this in order to further fill our gold reserves, and print more money. (gold standard reasoning). We came out of that, as we will slowly come out of our current economic state. Your "never-to-return" mentality is only going to hinder you from striving to find a resolution. People living in a metro area can find jobs. Yes it may take time, but they are out there. Some people love to claim they can't find one, yet are't truly trying. They are just riding the "bad-economy-train". *
> back in the 70's one college educated male working full time could buy a home, have a car and raise a small family all on one income and save money.   it takes 2 full time workers in 2011 to make the same amount in income that one male worker did in the early 70's.  opportunity in the US is not increasing it is rapidly decreasing. a shrinking GDP growth is a sign of a failing economy and the real growth of the GDP in the US has been steadily declining the past 30+ years.
> ...


----------



## LAM (Oct 15, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> My response in bold.



I made tens of millions in the 90's and I could have retired at 32. my concern is surely not for myself but for those on the opposite end of the spectrum that have been buying the bs sold to them on tv for decades by politicians.

your response is not one based on reality...nor what the empirical data shows as is stated in just about any of the reports or working papers from the EPI, IMF, ILO, NBER, LSE, Princeton or what any of the nobel laureates are saying.  even the FRB is slowly starting to release papers about how the lack of unionization and unequal income growth has hampered the economy.

It takes 2 full time workers to earn what 1 did in the early 70's because of a inflation and the unequal distribution of income for the two lower income quintiles.  as productivity has increased the past 40 years wages have remained relatively flat for them only increasing at about 1% a year while the advertised rate of inflation from the BLS is about 3.5% a year but that has been severely understated and in reality is about 7-8% a year.  the cost of a mid-range new cars and homes and college tuition have all increased several hundred percent since the 70's.


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## anxious1 (Oct 15, 2011)

^^
I am relatively young, and lack the plethora of knowledge and understanding that comes with personally viewing time progress. 

If you could PM me links to those reports I would greatly appreciate it. 

To add: I am a proponent of higher taxes on the uber-rich. Yet not in excess, the likes of which were seen in the 60'-70's. Some used to pay 70%!!! to the current 17% paid on certain investments. 

I came from a split family, my mother being in the "oppressed" group, and my father reaching the upper-mid levels of banking. I have seen both sides, and have come to understand quite a bit, that isn't publicized. I have also had the opportunity to have two prominent relatives in politics. All of this has lead to an other than conventional understanding of the world. 

Reports can speak of facts and numbers, yet they don't always show the true reality. 
I was a member of a California union, then received a promotion (management was not union). From my dealings with the union, I learned how fickle things can become... Yes they do great things, yet they also choose to delay, manipulate, alter dealings. This just causes issues generally speaking. 

For I do not claim to know everything, and can only go off what I know/ have experienced. Therefore I will strive to learn/soak in more.


----------



## Curt James (Oct 15, 2011)

YouTube Video















YouTube Video















YouTube Video















YouTube Video


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## Curt James (Oct 15, 2011)

^^^^ Hadn't seen this thread. D'OH!


----------



## meow (Oct 15, 2011)

Just wait until one of these fucktards get "martyred" by the popos.  New York will be overrunned by the commies. People should really study up on socialism. Hitler was one. Oh yea, Polpat too. In fact, look back to all of the genocides of the past and you'll find that socialism ultimately caused them.
Stepping off the soapbox now.


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## LAM (Oct 15, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> trust me, there's plenty of CEU's (both required and voluntary) to keep up with....more money is the greatest incentive for being a hardworker.....something the irish bloodlines have....WORK ETHIC!!!
> 
> but the digital age has shortened the attention span for everyone....that's more what i was commenting on with long posts...we prefer quick, short, to the point information, in black and white with no gray



yes but what do you learn outside of your field in healthcare?  everything can't be about the job.  this is how people trap themselves into only knowing about what they do.  you would not have the views on economics as you do if you were more educated about it.


----------



## irish_2003 (Oct 15, 2011)

LAM said:


> yes but what do you learn outside of your field in healthcare?  everything can't be about the job.  this is how people trap themselves into only knowing about what they do.  you would not have the views on economics as you do if you were more educated about it.



where and what i invest my money in is my own business.....there's certain safe investments and there's also cyclical investments to play with....it's just a matter of learning those cycles and making the right moves at the right time.......i don't feel sorry for poor people....everyone has an opportunity by being born to somewhere down the line make choices to change their situations.....some like myself are doing it later in life after making many mistakes...others choose to do absolutely nothing and wait for someone else to do it for them...

but the big picture for me is "streams of income" .....my chosen career path is only the first stepping stone....there's several businesses that i'm interested in owning and investing in....some for cashflow, and others for tax purposes only.....i'm a few years away from that part of my action plan though......right now it's baby steps and penny pinching and creating good money habits while creating capital....i want to rely on others as little as possible for initial business investments (networking is very big for right now also)......i'm not dumb lam....just very opinionated and outspoken on my views


----------



## Big Smoothy (Oct 15, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> ^^
> I am relatively young, and lack the plethora of knowledge and understanding that comes with personally viewing time progress.
> 
> If you could PM me links to those reports I would greatly appreciate it.
> ...



LAM's data and stats are correct.

I've followed the issue of American income decline also, and I also studied the concept in a political economics class 20 years ago.

Lots of information is available on the issue.


----------



## anxious1 (Oct 16, 2011)

Big Smoothy said:


> LAM's data and stats are correct.
> 
> I've followed the issue of American income decline also, and I also studied the concept in a political economics class 20 years ago.
> 
> Lots of information is available on the issue.



I also learned that vaccines are the way to go in order to live a healthy life style. Now reports are coming out that is showing more issues are created by vaccines potentially than they alleviate. 

What is taught, or shown in statistics can either be askew, or disproved at a later date. 

I do agree with his stats. Yet I can attest to people being able to "rise from the ashes". Too many people see those numbers and then refuse to strive for success, allowing others to obtain great wealth. 

The way people are making huge amounts of money are more technical, or involve monetary investments. MANY of the population persuade themselves they can't get into those fields, so they don't enter those lucrative fields.


----------



## LAM (Oct 16, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> The way people are making huge amounts of money are more technical, or involve monetary investments. MANY of the population persuade themselves they can't get into those fields, so they don't enter those lucrative fields.



Did you account for the fact that the capitalists in the US have had access to free money from deposits made into capital accounts when foreign nations purchase US dollars from the US Treasury?

an option obviously not available to all citizens only those that are already wealthy


----------



## LAM (Oct 16, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> I do agree with his stats. Yet I can attest to people being able to "rise from the ashes". Too many people see those numbers and then refuse to strive for success, allowing others to obtain great wealth.



the problem is that nobody sees these numbers..90% of US citizens get 100% of their information on economics from televised media sources.  I send plenty of information out to many of my friends the vast majority of which are college educated, none of them every take the time to read any of the reports.  you won't find many that will take the time to read a 150 page report on Global Wages from the ILO.


----------



## anxious1 (Oct 16, 2011)

LAM said:


> Did you account for the fact that the capitalists in the US have had access to free money from deposits made into capital accounts when foreign nations purchase US dollars from the US Treasury?
> 
> an option obviously not available to all citizens only those that are already wealthy



That is only one potential avenue. Just because it isn't open to those with lower amounts of money to invest doesn't mean there aren't other options for them. 

They have to start somewhere. Just because they can't take that avenue at the moment, doesn't mean they can't make the necessary wealth that is needed. Then proceed with that option. 

I will look up more info regarding the capital accounts.


----------



## anxious1 (Oct 16, 2011)

LAM said:


> the problem is that nobody sees these numbers..90% of US citizens get 100% of their information on economics from televised media sources.  I send plenty of information out to many of my friends the vast majority of which are college educated, none of them every take the time to read any of the reports.  you won't find many that will take the time to read a 150 page report on Global Wages from the ILO.



I concur that media manipulation is a true issue for Americans. I have had the opportunity to work in a government PR office, and learned a ton. The media grabs hold of false information that makes a great story, and no longer check credibility, they just run it. 

LAM, 
I was told by my father I need to be the one to take action. Stop being a conformed citizen, and focus on changing issues. 
So I am working on a plan that I can follow, in which I hope will push change. 
The first step is to learn, experience, and listen. If you send me any link, report, or source, then I will diligently look into it. 

Most people would rather go out and get hammered on a Friday, or go to bed early, than read that report. Yet they don't realize that is what may be holding them back, or makes them subject-ignorant.


----------



## LAM (Oct 16, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> That is only one potential avenue. Just because it isn't open to those with lower amounts of money to invest doesn't mean there aren't other options for them.
> 
> They have to start somewhere. Just because they can't take that avenue at the moment, doesn't mean they can't make the necessary wealth that is needed. Then proceed with that option.
> 
> I will look up more info regarding the capital accounts.



the extreme concentration of wealth in the top 1% is only seen in the US, no other highly industrialized country or wealthy nation is seeing this and they have all gone through the same technology boom as the US.

the 2 main factors that make the US different from all other high industrialized countries are:

extensive lobbying which most countries in the world do not allow
lowest rate of labor unionization in the OECD at only 13% of the labor force


----------



## anxious1 (Oct 16, 2011)

LAM said:


> the extreme concentration of wealth in the top 1% is only seen in the US, no other highly industrialized country or wealthy nation is seeing this and they have all gone through the same technology boom as the US.
> 
> the 2 main factors that make the US different from all other high industrialized countries are:
> 
> ...



What do you believe needs to be done in order to rectify those two troubling issues? 

My only thing about unions, is that they abuse their power and make excessive demands at times. Some union workers aren't worth the rates they demand, or the benefits.


----------



## anxious1 (Oct 16, 2011)

If those are the two main issues, then people need to band together and push for their change. 

Too many people in these protests are protesting war, military, and other issues. Where they need to drop those issues for the time being, and push for the most debilitating... They need a leader, and an agenda.


----------



## LAM (Oct 16, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> If those are the two main issues, then people need to band together and push for their change.
> 
> Too many people in these protests are protesting war, military, and other issues. Where they need to drop those issues for the time being, and push for the most debilitating... They need a leader, and an agenda.



it's hard to many people live their entire life based on rigid ideology's, facts and data are meaningless to them.

wars (in the case of the US imperialism under the guise of fighting for democracy) and illegal immigration are both red herrings to distract the sheep from the real issues.  governments have been using military conflicts and other basic psychological tactics as distractions forever, overall the US is not a very bright country it's why these are so effective.


----------



## anxious1 (Oct 16, 2011)

LAM said:


> it's hard to many people live their entire life based on rigid ideology's, facts and data are meaningless to them.
> 
> wars (in the case of the US imperialism under the guise of fighting for democracy) and illegal immigration are both red herrings to distract the sheep from the real issues.  governments have been using military conflicts and other basic psychological tactics as distractions forever, overall the US is not a very bright country it's why these are so effective.




Those people who ignore the blatantly obvious facts are apart of the issues. 

I understand the insane diversions wars are used to create. Better than most I can admit. There is a reason the military has the rules they do, the groups they do, and the "tactics" they do. 

If it isn't fighting for democracy, then it is fighting for god.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Oct 16, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> I also learned that vaccines are the way to go in order to live a healthy life style. Now reports are coming out that is showing more issues are created by vaccines potentially than they alleviate.
> 
> What is taught, or shown in statistics can either be askew, or disproved at a later date.



The economic data is empirical, historical data from many different sources.

Comparing historcical economic data to medical vaccine studies and changes in the belief and use of medical vaccines is comparing _apples to oranges._



> I do agree with his stats. Yet I can attest to people being able to "rise from the ashes". Too many people see those numbers and then refuse to strive for success, allowing others to obtain great wealth.



Most people IMO (more than 50% and even higher than that) want security.

They want to work 9 to 5, have a job as an employee, and take few if any risks.  Others (less folks) are entreprenuerial, work for themselves, and will take risks.

Not saying this is good or bad, but it's the way more people are.

If you look at the millions entering the job market every (graduates and adults), it means more and more people competing for the same low wage jobs with no benefits.


----------



## anxious1 (Oct 16, 2011)

Big Smoothy said:


> The economic data is empirical, historical data from many different sources.
> 
> Comparing historcical economic data to medical vaccine studies and changes in the belief and use of medical vaccines is comparing _apples to oranges._
> 
> ...



It is a stretch in comparison, yet I was showing the potential for rectification of "fact". 

I agree that well over 50% fight to life a secure, and content life. That is their prerogative, but it also means they aren't going to obtain the same amount of success as those who put more effort into their careers. 

Honestly I have met many people who are not worth hiring. Just because someone lives in society, doesn't mean they deserve a job. 
I know many people disagree with this thought, and that is their right. Yet just think about how many employees are at work for 8 hours, and only get 1 hour of legitimate work done. Maybe they steal from the company, whether it be time, supplies, or even technology.


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## Big Smoothy (Oct 17, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> Honestly I have met many people who are not worth hiring. Just because someone lives in society, doesn't mean they deserve a job.
> 
> I know many people disagree with this thought, and that is their right. Yet just think about how many employees are at work for 8 hours, and only get 1 hour of legitimate work done. Maybe they steal from the company, whether it be time, supplies, or even technology.



Yes, I have come across a lot of people I wouldn't hire. 

The current and future job market will be more difficult for the lazier or less conscientious workers. 

I do agree, a job is not a right.

We can just look at the rest of the world of 7 billion people and see this.


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## Chubby (Oct 17, 2011)

Are these protests costing anything to this corrupted government and Wall Street? If not, then this protesters are waisting their time. Both parties will not care if it is not bothering them. These protesters should not just protest, but they should also protest smartly. If they want to see result from this protests, then their actions must cost these two parties a big time. Personally I would blame the government for all these mess. They are the one, who knowingly let it continue for all these years.


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## anxious1 (Oct 17, 2011)

Chubby said:


> Are these protests costing anything to this corrupted government and Wall Street? If not, then this protesters are waisting their time. Both parties will not care if it is not bothering them. These protesters should not just protest, but they should also protest smartly. If they want to see result from this protests, then their actions must cost these two parties a big time. Personally I would blame the government for all these mess. They are the one, who knowingly let it continue for all these years.



Why only blame the ones who allow things to happen, and not hold those who are doing the action. Both are equal in guilt.


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## ALBOB (Oct 17, 2011)

Chubby said:


> Nothing will make a differences, only another bigbang will.



I quickly glanced at this post and would have sworn it said GANGbang.


----------



## anxious1 (Oct 17, 2011)

Big Smoothy said:


> Yes, I have come across a lot of people I wouldn't hire.
> 
> The current and future job market will be more difficult for the lazier or less conscientious workers.
> 
> ...



Very true. Population growth comes with more competitors for each job. This is where Darwinism comes into play. Someone who is content not putting out, striving to correct their mistakes, or even to correctly learn their profession, is only going to be over-run by those who exert the extra effort. 

Some people are so terrible at being a good employee I wouldn't hire them as a janitor, or any other simplistic job. I wouldn't want them painting my home, washing my car, or walking my dog. 

Too many people feel entitled to a job or many other opportunities. Just like people feel it is their right to drive drunk since it is their life... Well when they wreck and cause damage to someone, or something else, they feel victimized when their license is revoked... 

*America is known as the land of opportunity,  not the land of rights. *Yes we have many rights, yet we also have many more privileges, and opportunities.


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## Big Pimpin (Oct 17, 2011)

What is SEIU, the Tides Foundation and the UAW up to today?  

I guess I would protest too if I were an unemployed socialist looking to make $300-$600/wk protesting because that pays their iPhone bill, Starbucks bill and covers their grass habit.   

Apparently its not enough to cover their baths.


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## LAM (Oct 17, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> I guess I would protest too if I were an unemployed socialist looking to make $300-$600/wk protesting because that pays their iPhone bill, Starbucks bill and covers their grass habit.



you may actually want to learn what the definition of socialism is before using it..quite obvious you do not


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## anxious1 (Oct 17, 2011)

I have a list of some great books that I feel people should read... I'll post up when I get back this afternoon.


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## Big Pimpin (Oct 17, 2011)

LAM said:


> you may actually want to learn what the definition of socialism is before using it..quite obvious you do not




Oh boo-hoo.


----------



## Big Pimpin (Oct 17, 2011)

Dumb fuck for-hire activists even have Apple on their war flag as they post on Facebook and Twitter from their iPhones and Macbooks.  I love it.


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## LAM (Oct 17, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> Oh boo-hoo.



your the one that sounds like an idiot using words that you don't know the definition of not me...best not to repeat things heard on television


----------



## anxious1 (Oct 17, 2011)

^^^ To add to what was said.

Just like we all heard how Obama is a communist, and an equivalent to Hitler. 

Really??? 

Everything said after such absurd claims becomes null and void as a legitimate argument.


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## Big Pimpin (Oct 17, 2011)

LAM said:


> your the one that sounds like an idiot using words that you don't know the definition of not me...best not to repeat things heard on television




You're right...I should be calling them capitalists since many are getting paid to protest.


----------



## anxious1 (Oct 17, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> You're right...I should be calling them capitalists since many are getting paid to protest.



Don't communists, socialists, and fascists all get paid to work as well?


----------



## troubador (Oct 17, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> ^^^ To add to what was said.
> 
> Just like we all heard how Obama is a communist, and an equivalent to Hitler.
> 
> ...



Speaking of argument, the fallacy you just committed is commonly called 'poisoning the well'.


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## irish_2003 (Oct 17, 2011)

keep protesting against people making money on and from wall street......my portfolio has increased since the protests began......thanks!!!


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## anxious1 (Oct 17, 2011)

troubador said:


> Speaking of argument, the fallacy you just committed is commonly called 'poisoning the well'.




I was pointing out a common fallacy, not making one.


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## Chubby (Oct 17, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> Why only blame the ones who allow things to happen, and not hold those who are doing the action. Both are equal in guilt.


It is because I am more mad at government at this moment.


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## LAM (Oct 17, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> keep protesting against people making money on and from wall street......my portfolio has increased since the protests began......thanks!!!



wait until the bond market crashes...you'll be crying...

did you factor in that the USD depreciates an average of 30% a decade?  so if you are not earning at least much on your investments you aren't making any money in the long run..


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## Big Smoothy (Oct 17, 2011)

irish,

If you're not running you're own business and are an employee, and you're investing in the financial markets:

You are one of those 99 percent.  You are indeed one of the occupy wall street, folks.

No one has faith in the USD, and the equity and bond markets are dicey, to say the least.

(Not only with US graft and mismanagment, but now especially with Europe.)


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## Gregzs (Oct 17, 2011)

CHARTS: Here's What The Wall Street Protesters Are So Angry About...


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## Big Smoothy (Oct 18, 2011)

Short and to the point. Note the script at the end.





YouTube Video


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## Big Pimpin (Oct 18, 2011)

Gregzs said:


> CHARTS: Here's What The Wall Street Protesters Are So Angry About...




I'd be curious to see what many of those charts looked like if the black population wasn't included in their results.

When young black male unemployment is around 45% and 9 of 10 blacks will eat from food stamps before they turn 18, there's no doubt the socioeconomic woes of the relatively small black community are skewing the overall results down.


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## irish_2003 (Oct 18, 2011)

Big Smoothy said:


> irish,
> 
> If you're not running you're own business and are an employee, and you're investing in the financial markets:
> 
> ...




streams of income bro......the only way to learn this is to own/run and the fail a business.....you can't become well off with just one stream...you need multiple streams of income....i did learn this on my own thru trial and error though so i'm a little late, but they were good lessons......

and i agree....more money can be made quicker in foreign markets, but there's quite a bit of risk involved so investing in forex is minimal for now......i'm not liquid by any means, but i've been able to make some nice moves recently and definitely put myself into a better position than owning properties and stocks, bonds, etc and losing my ass every month


----------



## LAM (Oct 18, 2011)

Gregzs said:


> CHARTS: Here's What The Wall Street Protesters Are So Angry About...



actually the main problem is that american's are just plan bad at mathematics, analytical and critical thinking.  

while it's not going to happen for many generations eventually all (vast majority) of the wealth in the country is going to end up in the hands of the top 1%.   that's when the "real" socialism starts in the U.S.  the means of production will not be controlled by the state but by the top 400-500 households in the US, this is when the real serfdom begins in America.


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## Big Pimpin (Oct 18, 2011)

Sounds like millions of people need to stop buying iThings, ditch the $100/mo satellite bill, ditch the $100/mo smartphone bill(s), ditch the $50/mo DSL and stop going on vacations until they get their financial shit together because reality is the entitlements are going into bankruptcy so one better save for his future. 

But I guess its easier to just blame and demand more $$$$$$$$ from the rich instead of doing something to better yourself.  Everyone wants to be a victim nowadays thanks to Obama.    It's not my fault I'm in this situation, its some guys fault that lives on Park Avenue whom I've never met.


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## LAM (Oct 18, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> Sounds like millions of people need to stop buying iThings, ditch the $100/mo satellite bill, ditch the $100/mo smartphone bill(s), ditch the $50/mo DSL and stop going on vacations until they get their financial shit together because reality is the entitlements are going into bankruptcy so one better save for his future.



you don't know jack squat about economics...the problem why certain entitlements will have future funding issues is because of the lack of good paying jobs and the loss of real income growth as productivity increases.  

the baby boomers are the last generation that saw real incomes grow constantly as productivity increased over the decades, this was all lost beginning in the 80's.   this is when the income/wage productivity gap started and is steadily increasing.  high paying jobs being replaced by low wage jobs where there is no change of ever accumulating any wealth.

every-time there is a economic bubble that bursts wealth gets transferred up the ladder.


----------



## Big Pimpin (Oct 18, 2011)

LAM said:


> you don't know jack squat about economics...the problem why certain entitlements will have future funding issues is because of the lack of good paying jobs and the loss of real income growth as productivity increases.
> 
> the baby boomers are the last generation that saw real incomes grow constantly as productivity increased over the decades, this was all lost beginning in the 80's.   this is when the income/wage productivity gap started and is steadily increasing.  high paying jobs being replaced by low wage jobs where there is no change of ever accumulating any wealth.
> 
> every-time there is a economic bubble that bursts wealth gets transferred up the ladder.




So you deny that millions and millions of paycheck to paycheck middle class families that aren't saving a dime for retirement much less a rainy day still afford themselves the luxuries of $100/mo cell phone bills, $100/mo cable, $50 pairs of blue jeans and $3000 annual vacations?


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## Big Smoothy (Oct 29, 2011)

Here's Peter Schiff and Cornel.  Comments on both of their points?





YouTube Video


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## IronAddict (Oct 29, 2011)

Peter D. Bunk.

These mutha phuqas are going to scratch and claw to try to keep things the same.

This guy And his Prez. W. Touted capitalism. But when the big banks were about to "fail" who bailed them out.

That's not capitalism, thats the perverted version of capitalism you want everyone to agree with.

Fuck you and all the capitalist pigs that are trying to bully and steam roll over the populace.

To you Smoothy,


----------



## IronAddict (Oct 29, 2011)

Oh, and I forgot to mention, D Bunk...

clean your dandruff off your lapel, you nasty mother fucker!

You fuckin Nazi, Freddie and Fannie..Seriously?


----------



## Big Pimpin (Nov 15, 2011)

Stick a fork in those protestors because they are done.   


New York City police in riot gear swept into a Lower Manhattan park to remove Occupy Wall Street protesters early today following similar moves that shut camps in Oakland, California, and Portland, Oregon. 

 Police and the park???s owners told protesters at 1 a.m. local time to remove items including tents and sleeping bags, after which city workers cleared remaining belongings, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said in an e-mailed release. People can return to the park once the cleaning is finished, he said. 

 ???Protesters -- and the general public -- are welcome there to exercise their First Amendment rights, and otherwise enjoy the park, but will not be allowed to use tents, sleeping bags, or tarps and, going forward, must follow all park rules,??? the mayor said in the statement. 

 Hundreds of protesters have slept in tents and under tarps since Sept. 17 in Zuccotti Park, which was both the birthplace of the protests against economic inequality and the physical symbol of the movement. The police operation came after organizers announced they would mark the two-month anniversary of the movement this week with plans to ???shut down Wall Street??? and ???occupy the subways.??? 

*???Evict an Idea??? *

 ???Some politicians may physically remove us from public spaces -- our spaces,??? activists said in a statement released at 2:25 a.m. local time. ???You cannot evict an idea whose time has come.??? 

 About 200 people were in the park when police using loudspeakers told protesters to leave or face arrest, said Chris Porter, 26, a welder from Indiana who joined the protest in the park about a month ago. 

 Police broke down tents and ???destroyed everything??? while forcibly removing protesters who had locked arms, he said. The Associated Press said about 70 people were arrested, citing Paul Browne, a police spokesman. 

 City cleaning crews in orange vests hauled away dumpsters full of the encampment???s remains. 

 ???I have become increasingly concerned -- as had the park???s owner, Brookfield Properties -- that the occupation was coming to pose a health and fire safety hazard to the protesters and to the surrounding community,??? the mayor said in the release. 

*???Final Decision??? *

 ???We have been in constant contact with Brookfield and yesterday they requested that the city assist it in enforcing the no sleeping and camping rules in the park,??? Bloomberg said. ???But make no mistake -- the final decision to act was mine.??? 

 The mayor is founder and majority owner of Bloomberg News parent Bloomberg LP. 

 The one-square block space hosted a medical tent, kitchen area serving three meals a day, library, comfort station doling out underwear, sweaters, pants and blankets, and tables offering media outreach and legal guidance. 

Resident protesters at Zuccotti have evaded eviction and confrontation with New York police before. Thousands of people convened in the early morning hours of Oct. 14, leading Brookfield Office Properties Inc., the owner of the park, to postpone a scheduled cleaning. 

 Hundreds of protesters arrested last month during a demonstration on the Brooklyn Bridge are scheduled to start appearing in court today to face disorderly conduct charges. 

*900 Charged *

 More than 900 people have been charged in connection with the protests since mid-September, including about 700 arrested during the Oct. 1 bridge demonstration, according to police. 

 The demonstrators refer to themselves on signs and in slogans as ???the 99 percent,??? a reference to Nobel Prize- winning economist Joseph Stiglitz???s study showing the richest 1 percent control 40 percent of U.S. wealth. 

 Oakland police cleared a downtown encampment yesterday after a slaying on Nov. 10. Police in Portland evicted campers at Chapman and Lownsdale squares on Nov. 13 after two people suffered drug overdoses. Salt Lake City banned protesters from staying overnight at Pioneer Park on Nov. 11 after a person was found dead at the camp that morning. 

 ???The people who originally founded the encampments are either no longer there or no longer in control,??? Oakland Mayor Jean Quan said yesterday in a telephone interview. ???In part of clearing the camp, we moved a lot of the homeless -- they were about half of the residents.??? 

*Officials??? Concerns *

 Deaths, sexual assaults, drug dealing and theft in the tent cities threaten public safety, officials said. The camps have drawn the homeless, street youths and a criminal element, some officials said. 

 ???In the past few days, the balance has tipped,??? Portland Mayor Sam Adams said in a Nov. 10 statement. ???We have experienced two very serious drug overdoses, where individuals required immediate resuscitation in the camp.??? 

When protesters began camping in Portland on Oct. 6, ???the groups that day were people who have been committed to the movement,??? Sergeant Pete Simpson, a spokesman for the Portland Police Bureau, said yesterday in a telephone interview. ???Then those people started leaving and the homeless population and street youth began moving in.??? 

 The camps have cropped up in cities nationwide to protest economic disparity. Demonstrators decry high foreclosures and unemployment rates that plague average Americans while large bonuses were issued by U.S. banks after they accepted a taxpayer-funded bailout. 

*Philadelphia Mayor *

 In Philadelphia, Mayor Michael Nutter said on Nov. 13 that the city ???must re-evaluate??? its dealings with Occupy Philly after numerous reports of thefts and assaults at the group???s tent city on Dilworth Plaza outside City Hall. 

Since Oct. 6, emergency medical services have made 15 runs to the camp and a woman reported a rape Nov. 12, he said at a news briefing. Nutter said he???s asked for additional police in the area. 

 Many of the initial leaders that the city dealt with have since left and the group is fractured, Nutter said. The mayor said he wants to avoid confrontation with the movement and agrees with them on issues such as unemployment, poverty and bank lending. 

 ???Now we???re at a critical point where we must re-evaluate our entire relationship with this very changed group,??? he said. 

 To contact the reporters on this story: Alison Vekshin in San Francisco at  avekshin@bloomberg.net; Esme E. Deprez in New York at  edeprez@bloomberg.net


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## Big Smoothy (Nov 15, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> Stick a fork in those protestors because they are done.



I don't care about the "protesters."

It's the mentality that matter to me.

The stiffs - working and middle class folks - that get up and try to hustle a buck everyday for their families and debts are too busy.

It's these people, that the Gov and Elitist establishment wants to keep working (occupied).


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## Thee_One (Nov 15, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> Stick a fork in those protestors because they are done.
> 
> 
> .......................





Why do you hate them so much?


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## Big Pimpin (Nov 15, 2011)

I don't hate them....I just think rent-a-crowds are fucking useless much like this Occupy crowd.


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## Thee_One (Nov 15, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> I don't hate them....I just think rent-a-crowds are fucking useless much like this Occupy crowd.




I see.

So you believe no good has or will come of this movement??


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## elliscrawl (Nov 15, 2011)

They are done in Portland too. finally. Even the mayor that supported their cause had to get rid of them. 

Over 70 arrests including a couple of sexual assaults. Over $200 k in taxpayer money for the extra cops and then they smashed out a two thousand dollar bank window the day after they were kicked out of the park. Like it was going to help their cause. 

Not to mention the parks are totally destroyed and un-usable by people with jobs that pay taxes. Occupy a desk


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## BP2000 (Nov 15, 2011)

Most of you (talking about 99% of the population) fail to see the big picture.  This (elite that try to control society) has been going on for longer than you can imagine.  There was always a aristocrat and peasant class.  Nothing has changed except now we have a middle class.  

These people control the economy by controlling the money.  We are on a fiat-based money *system* that doesn't work.  The FED controls the money by printing billion's and the top 1% get "loans" from them.  Yes, that is how OUR economy works.  But the TV won't tell you this.  The elite own the television also.  Again, this is not a Democrat or Reb debate.  They control both sides.  It is a dualistic illusion.  They create problems and then a struggle, then they come in and say we have the solution.  Print more money. 

We need to do what the Japs did as someone already posted.  AUDIT these motherfucker's and follow the money trail.  End lobbying and regulate better.  Have smaller banks that give back to the community.  

Most people only care about themselves and stick their head in the sand.  This gives the elite the power to create the smoke screens that keeps the illusion of wealth going.  But it only goes into their hands.  

What they have done is devalue the dollar.  Now people struggle to pay their bills and they are sick of this kind of living.  So they protest.  They don't know exactly what's going on but they are getting to the point where they are pissed off.  We need a peaceful protest like in the 70's.  Where we say enough is enough and take back control of our finances. 

Think about this for a second.  All those banks create money out of thin air.  Then they stick it to the working American's to pay the bills.  Not only American's *this is a GLOBAL problem*.  We have to *demand* that we are NOT RESPONSIBLE for their reckless spending and investments.  Wipe the debt clean and start over.  It worked in the biblical day's.  

There would be a transition period.  The other altervative is people get to the point where RIOTS start to occur and the whole system crumbles and it will be more painful.  We can use our heads or get pissed and use brawn or get educated and take UNITED action.


It is heartbreaking seeing these young people who are willing to DIE for their country but don't understand the basic's of how their country work's.  It pains me that some take a stance either REP or DEM and vote but really will not bring the desired reality to their country.  It pains me more to see these people arguing which is precisely what the elite want.


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## anxious1 (Nov 15, 2011)

Do people realize that John D Rockefeller died with an estimated worth of 1.5-1.8% of the U.S economy? That equates to anywhere from 400-600+ BILLION. That is a potential net worth 8 times Bill Gates. 
Oh wait... It is only recently that the distribution of wealth has been shifting towards the rich. Haha I call bullshit.


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## BP2000 (Nov 15, 2011)

The elite are part of the original fallen angels, who try to control every aspect (banking, media, education, churches) of life on planet earth.  They refuse to serve and are selfish beyond belief.


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## elliscrawl (Nov 15, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> Do people realize that John D Rockefeller died with an estimated worth of 1.5-1.8% of the U.S economy? That equates to anywhere from 400-600+ BILLION. That is a potential net worth 8 times Bill Gates.
> Oh wait... It is only recently that the distribution of wealth has been shifting towards the rich. Haha I call bullshit.


 

Haha. 2nd that bullshit.


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## anxious1 (Nov 15, 2011)

BP2000 said:


> The elite are part of the original fallen angels, who try to control every aspect (banking, media, education, churches) of life on planet earth.  They refuse to serve and are selfish beyond belief.




Have you ever gone to the Getty? Pretty sure that was donated by an "elite" man. It now is the largest collection of the worlds art, and historical documents.


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## troubador (Nov 15, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> Do people realize that John D Rockefeller died with an estimated worth of 1.5-1.8% of the U.S economy? That equates to anywhere from 400-600+ BILLION. That is a potential net worth 8 times Bill Gates.
> Oh wait... It is only recently that the distribution of wealth has been shifting towards the rich.



Yeah, he was great. He made kerosene affordable to the poor for lighting and heating.


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## anxious1 (Nov 15, 2011)

troubador said:


> Yeah, he was great. He made kerosene affordable to the poor for lighting and heating.



But BP2000 doesn't agree. He says they are selfish, and refuse to serve.


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## irish_2003 (Nov 15, 2011)

considering an Occupy Strip Club movement......them bitches are taking too much of our money.....


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## troubador (Nov 15, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> But BP2000 doesn't agree. He says they are selfish, and refuse to serve.



I didn't read his post but Rockefeller gave shit tons to schools, founded an institute for medical research, and all kinds of shit.


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## LAM (Nov 15, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> Do people realize that John D Rockefeller died with an estimated worth of 1.5-1.8% of the U.S economy? That equates to anywhere from 400-600+ BILLION. That is a potential net worth 8 times Bill Gates.
> Oh wait... It is only recently that the distribution of wealth has been shifting towards the rich. Haha I call bullshit.



Rockefeller wealth was equal to 1/65 of US GDP and Gates is about 1/152.  income inequality has always existed in the US and all capitalist societies but the rapidly shrinking middle class in the US is only occurring here and not in other large wealthy heavily industrialized countries in the OECD with democratic party's that are polarized.  this tells is it's a function of economic policy and not simple the natural evolution of capitalism in the OECD.


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## Dark Geared God (Nov 16, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> I don't hate them....I just think rent-a-crowds are fucking useless much like this Occupy crowd.


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## Little Wing (Nov 16, 2011)

Why We Occupy | Facebook

take it or leave it. some of it i found worth reading. 

i actually had the displeasure once of being the next patient in line to see a dr who had just been bitched out for taking too long with her patients. not fun.


----------



## Dark Geared God (Nov 16, 2011)




----------



## Gregzs (Nov 16, 2011)

Millionaires on Capitol Hill: Please tax me more! | US National Headlines | Comcast.net


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## Dark Geared God (Nov 16, 2011)

yea^^^only a few VS the others


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## LAM (Nov 16, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> I'd be curious to see what many of those charts looked like if the black population wasn't included in their results.
> 
> When young black male unemployment is around 45% and 9 of 10 blacks will eat from food stamps before they turn 18, there's no doubt the socioeconomic woes of the relatively small black community are skewing the overall results down.



and blacks only account for 12% of the US population...so better find another scapegoat because the math just isn't there..oh that's right you suck at math!


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## Dark Geared God (Nov 17, 2011)




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## irish_2003 (Nov 17, 2011)

LAM said:


> and blacks only account for 12% of the US population...so better find another scapegoat because the math just isn't there..oh that's right you suck at math!


 
i believe his argument should be the total minority population (both legal and illegal that get benefits) is greater.......that's why i only root for the straight white male population.....it's time we take this country back from the less fortunate leeches


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## LAM (Nov 19, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> i believe his argument should be the total minority population (both legal and illegal that get benefits) is greater.......that's why i only root for the straight white male population.....it's time we take this country back from the less fortunate leeches



I can not tell you how comforting it is to know that you don't have any children because you are about a box of rocks and more stupid people the US does not need.

2011 Federal Spending on welfare is about 480B, total corporate welfare is 1T annually.

minorities in the US make up a sizable portion of the lower income quintile and they are the ones that have seen wages eroded the most over the past 30 years.  once adjusted for inflation the federal minimum wage in 2011 is lower than it was in 1979.  Today, the minimum wage is 37% of the average hourly wage of American workers, well  below the ratio of the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s.  this topic is continually addressed in the ILO Global Wage Reports as the US has the largest percentage of low paid workers in the OECD at 25% of the labor force.

* Characteristics of workers affected by minimum wage increase:

        Directly Affected* Indirectly Affected* Total Affected *Total workforce
White,   61%                61%                      61%                69%
Black,    17%                16%                      16%                11%
Hispanic 18%                 18%                     18%                14%
Asian,      2%                  2%                        2%                 4%

Hundreds of Economists Say: Raise the Minimum Wage
http://www.epi.org/page/-/pdf/epi_minimum_wage_2006.pdf

http://www.epi.org/page/-/old/issueguides/minwage/epi_minimum_wage_issue_guide.pdf

the best way to decrease poverty is to stop paying people poverty wages...


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## btex34n88 (Nov 19, 2011)

This whole occupy wallstreet was a bunch of drug addict, shitheads who didnt even know what they stood for. The wealthy earned their money, so fucking cry about it.


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## Big Smoothy (Nov 19, 2011)

btex34n88 said:


> This whole occupy wallstreet was a bunch of drug addict, shitheads who didnt even know what they stood for. The wealthy earned their money, so fucking cry about it.



You make 2 points.

1.  OWS does include (IMO) some of the people you mention.  But they are not 100% of the movement.

2. I do not think this is about the "wealthy," although there may be some in the OWS movement that are focusing on the wealthy.

I thinking the corruption, Banking fraud, Credit Default Swaps, and bailouts and the declining middle class are are a part of this.

I don't think OWS and others are about the "who" but the what "is happening."

The question again is, does this have legs. 

Even the most foolishly optimistic Americans now realize that the US standard of living in declining and will do so for the next couple of decades at least.


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## LAM (Nov 20, 2011)

btex34n88 said:


> The wealthy earned their money, so fucking cry about it.



the wealthy employ lobbyists that get politicians to propose legislation that manipulates the markets to increase their profits, this is not a natural function of capitalism.

nobody in the finance industry earns money, they use other peoples in the forms of bank deposits, stock share and bond purchasers to loan monies out to borrowers 15x over. one of the fundamental requirements to grow a large financial sector is that it requires massive amounts of public debt at the individual level all the way up to the fed gov.  banking collapses that have occurred in various country's all over the world in recent past decades are 100% attributable to bank deregulation, corporate governance and greed in those respective country's.  this is what all the empirical data shows, there is none that shows otherwise.


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## btex34n88 (Nov 20, 2011)

LAM said:


> the wealthy employ lobbyists that get politicians to propose legislation that manipulates the markets to increase their profits, this is not a natural function of capitalism.
> 
> nobody in the finance industry earns money, they use other peoples in the forms of bank deposits, stock share and bond purchasers to loan monies out to borrowers 15x over. one of the fundamental requirements to grow a large financial sector is that it requires massive amounts of public debt at the individual level all the way up to the fed gov. banking collapses that have occurred in various country's all over the world in recent past decades are 100% attributable to bank deregulation, corporate governance and greed in those respective country's. this is what all the empirical data shows, there is none that shows otherwise.


 
I agree with you, but its the companies not the individuals. Make an ass load of money and when you file your tax return you'll want to murder everyone. Trust me though i understand where your coming from and i personally think our government is so GD corrupt its rediculous, but the people i saw protesting looked like garbage drug addicts, something i have a hard time standing behind.


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## anxious1 (Nov 20, 2011)

btex34n88 said:


> I agree with you, but its the companies not the individuals. Make an ass load of money and when you file your tax return you'll want to murder everyone. Trust me though i understand where your coming from and i personally think our government is so GD corrupt its rediculous, but the people i saw protesting looked like garbage drug addicts, something i have a hard time standing behind.



It all depends on how you made that money... Your capital gains on investments is only taxed @17%


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## btex34n88 (Nov 20, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> It all depends on how you made that money... Your capital gains on investments is only taxed @17%


 
Yes but as a private business owner my social security not only gets taken out through salary, but also based on the amount i have in revenue within my company. Its close to 40% so...$100,000, they take close to $40k away, its a lovely feeling


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## GearsMcGilf (Nov 20, 2011)

LAM said:


> the wealthy employ lobbyists that get politicians to propose legislation that manipulates the markets to increase their profits, this is not a natural function of capitalism.
> 
> nobody in the finance industry earns money, they use other peoples in the forms of bank deposits, stock share and bond purchasers to loan monies out to borrowers 15x over. one of the fundamental requirements to grow a large financial sector is that it requires massive amounts of public debt at the individual level all the way up to the fed gov.  banking collapses that have occurred in various country's all over the world in recent past decades are 100% attributable to bank deregulation, corporate governance and greed in those respective country's.  this is what all the empirical data shows, there is none that shows otherwise.



True.  Some common sense regulation could have prevented all of this mess.  Fir instance, banks in Canada are some of the most solid in the world.  But, do you think 1% of the "1 percenters" at OWS have the slightest clue about how this system works?  I'd say 99% of the participants, those who have the time to spend 24/7 camping out in tents, are just in it for the excitement.  It's their own version of Woodstock.  In fairness, at least the teabagggers have a clear message, they clean up at the end of their rallies, AND actually go to work the next day (or continue looking for work).


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## LAM (Nov 21, 2011)

here is a good example of just how US large firms have managed to record record profits while large firms in other large OECD countries are reported huge losses...


www.dghm.com/published/market/0909.pdf


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## Zaphod (Nov 22, 2011)

btex34n88 said:


> Yes but as a private business owner my social security not only gets taken out through salary, but also based on the amount i have in revenue within my company. Its close to 40% so...$100,000, they take close to $40k away, its a lovely feeling



That's because the GOP and politicians in general don't love you.  Rather than giving people like you a tax cut they give it to the biggest corporations.  You don't donate enough to politicians to make it worth their time to listen to your needs.


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## Big Pimpin (Nov 22, 2011)

LAM said:


> the wealthy employ lobbyists that get politicians to propose legislation that manipulates the markets to increase their profits, this is not a natural function of capitalism.
> 
> nobody in the finance industry earns money, they use other peoples in the forms of bank deposits, stock share and bond purchasers to loan monies out to borrowers 15x over. one of the fundamental requirements to grow a large financial sector is that it requires massive amounts of public debt at the individual level all the way up to the fed gov.  banking collapses that have occurred in various country's all over the world in recent past decades are 100% attributable to bank deregulation, corporate governance and greed in those respective country's.  this is what all the empirical data shows, there is none that shows otherwise.




So explain to us why Obama and his Democrats up on the hill didn't fix this in 2009 and 2010 when they had an overwhelming majority.  After all, Democrats are for the little people, the poor people and the middle class right?


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## Zaphod (Nov 22, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> So explain to us why Obama and his Democrats up on the hill didn't fix this in 2009 and 2010 when they had an overwhelming majority.  After all, Democrats are for the little people, the poor people and the middle class right?



It's because ALL of them are in the pocket of big business.  Both sides.


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## Thee_One (Nov 22, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> It's because ALL of them are in the pocket of big business.  Both sides.



This.


Listen people, we need to stop bringing up trivial matters like
"party lines".

We are all in this together.



United we stand, divided we fall.

Hey You - YouTube


----------



## Big Pimpin (Nov 22, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> It's because ALL of them are in the pocket of big business.  Both sides.




A man of wisdom.


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## Chubby (Nov 22, 2011)

I wonder how many members of IM belong to the top one percent.  They have been tirelessly defending those one percent.


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## Pahlevan (Nov 22, 2011)

These guys are a bunch of losers, nothing but whine.


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## troubador (Nov 22, 2011)

Chubby said:


> I wonder how many members of IM belong to the top one percent.  They have been tirelessly defending those one percent.



If you're in the '99%' you should take part in the self serving alliance right?


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## Big Pimpin (Nov 22, 2011)

Chubby said:


> I wonder how many members of IM belong to the top one percent.  They have been tirelessly defending those one percent.




Because these members haven't been defending an aimless group of people, many of which are being paid to protest, who also shit in the park when they aren't shitting on police cars?

What message(s) have these Occupy folks brought to our attention that we didn't already know?  Wall St, the banks and the mega-corporations are both greedy and wealthy?  That's a shocker.  

Let me let you in on a little secret, the banks, investment banks, Wall St and the mega-corporations do what they do because Congress and the POTUS provide them with the means to do so.  

These Occupy people would have impressed me if they had the smarts to protest in DC vs some park for gays in ATL.  Of course if your so called movement is funded by socialist organizations and based on socialist ideals, I guess it doesn't make sense to protest the hand that ultimately feeds socialism which is obviously the government.


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## irish_2003 (Nov 22, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> Because these members haven't been defending an aimless group of people, many of which are being paid to protest, who also shit in the park when they aren't shitting on police cars?
> 
> What message(s) have these Occupy folks brought to our attention that we didn't already know?  Wall St, the banks and the mega-corporations are both greedy and wealthy?  That's a shocker.
> 
> ...



i believe that's piedmont park area in ATL.....it's actually a really nice park....i didn't witness many gays there when i was there with my fiance though......


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## Big Pimpin (Nov 22, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> i believe that's piedmont park area in ATL.....it's actually a really nice park....i didn't witness many gays there when i was there with my fiance though......




It depends on the time of day and the season.

The park itself is nice considering it's in midtown ATL....but did you see the green lake in the back of the park?  Hard to believe anything can live in that mofo.


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## LAM (Nov 22, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> Let me let you in on a little secret, the banks, investment banks, Wall St and the mega-corporations do what they do because Congress and the POTUS provide them with the means to do so.



actually it was the conservative supreme court in the 70's that allowed lobbying and private monies to infiltrate US politics.  before that none of these problems existed in the US, this is all US history.


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## Big Pimpin (Nov 22, 2011)

LAM said:


> actually it was the conservative supreme court in the 70's that allowed lobbying and private monies to infiltrate US politics.  before that none of these problems existed in the US, this is all US history.




So are we back to this is all the Republican's fault or can the blame be shared between the two parties?


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## LAM (Nov 22, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> So are we back to this is all the Republican's fault or can the blame be shared between the two parties?



not my fault you have a complete lack of knowledge when it comes to US history and politics.  some of us have been paying attention to this topic our whole lives.  that's the great thing about history, you can't change it.  look up the records and see who was sitting on the bench when these changes occurred.


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## Big Pimpin (Nov 22, 2011)

LAM said:


> not my fault you have a complete lack of knowledge when it comes to US history and politics.  some of us have been paying attention to this topic our whole lives.  that's the great thing about history, you can't change it.  look up the records and see who was sitting on the bench when these changes occurred.




So to clarify things, we are in this mess because of the Republicans.


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## irish_2003 (Nov 22, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> So to clarify things, we are in this mess because of the Republicans.



that is the angle that LAM takes on every post he makes......he's just as delusional as the rest of the left


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## xMADxMACx (Nov 22, 2011)

OK OK OK OK OK OK 
I GOT IT.​Look, I Understand - I got it - Im sitting here - closed mouth ears open/mind - Im being non-biased...in my listening. BUT here's MAC's take on it..

1. This country was formed under the lines of FREEDOM in many fashions. Let's examine What I beleive are some of the elements of then...being brought out TODAY.

   a. Religous Tolerance
   b. Separation of Business and Goverment
   c. Distribution of Wealth

Now - As American's we have the freedom to dress, act, do and say as we please, for the most part. Ill make fun of myself, and use myself as an example: I choose to never wear a sleeved tee-shirt, and walk around as a OBV bodybuilder - The women I hang out with can beat 80% men' down. I choose to be the Freak'show.

People want to die their hair jet black wear Maryln Manson teeshirt's, or the opposite and be as we call "Prep" we choose HOW WE WANT TO BE PERCEIVED. 

^^ KEEP THAT IN MIND ^^

NOW - YES big business is taking over and drowning "the little guy"
YES - the goverment's getting way to involved in BIG Corporations.
YES - They took "GOD" out of the pledge of Allegiance - I can deal with that - BUT WHAT I CAN DEAL WITH IS - ITS AN OPTION TO STAND AND SAY IT -  

AMERICAN's ARNT A CERTAIN COLOR OR SHADE 
AMERICAN = AMERICAN - EVERYONE - should stand...off topic..

SO.. We already know WHY their occupying - 

The problem here is WHAT THE MEDIA has imprinted to the American's what a LEADER IS. THE PROBLEM IS THIS!!!!!!!!!!

- OBAMA IS NOT A LEADER-
-HE DOES NOT "RALLY THE GROUP" 
-HE DOES NOT SUPPORT THE AMERICAN MIND THOUGHT OF LET DIG IN, GET TOUGH, AND SUSTAIN, ...WHY? BECUASE IT THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

THERES NO HEART.

THE media Shows a OLD DYING MCCAIN -
and a young quick whitted teleprompt reading OBAMA

SO what happened? Now remember above about OUR american freedom on HOW we can PRESENT ourselves to the world?...

ALL THESE KIDS ...YES ...KIDS "OCCUPYING" ARE LONG HAIRED DEGENERATIVE YOUTH'S SWALLOWED AND CONSUMED WITH COLLEGGE PROFESSORS CULTURED IDEAS OF WHAT SHOULD BE!!!

A poll was taken.

An overwhelming percent of these "occupiers" PUT OBAMA in office----- THEY GOT WHAT THEY WANTED.

Obama has shifted himself in a way to this "wannabe hippies" to where they look at them as a "hero" to the CAUSE..

"...were for the cause man..." is what the 20 something yr old said on the news the other night..

WTF do you know about "the cause"....man?



I got news for you - Im in my latter 20's. I served this GREAT country. Here's the adivce id hand to everyone of these yuppies occupying ....

STOP TRYING TO BE VICTIMS
STOP TRYING TO BE VICTIMS
STOP TRYING TO BE VICTIMS
STOP USING MY TAX TO GET YOU HOMELESS ASSES OFF THE STREET
STOP DOING DRUGS AND GROW THE FUCK UP

YOU WANT CHANGE?? YOU FUCKING GOT IT!!!!!

IF YOU WANT MORE CHANGE...WELL

"RALLY THE GROUP" DIG IN, GET TOUGH, ....sound fimiliar.

IN THIS WORLD...THERES VERY little room on the top...

YOU EITHER  CREATE your room - OR - push whos on top off.

Summary : Occupiers = homeless kids that havnt even paid into the system enough to collect unemployment.

GET LIVES, MAKE MOVES---SITTING AROUND and letting the world see you get peppersprayed ....IS DUMB....and wasting my tax dollars.... 

FUCKING LIBERALS.

end rant.

-MAC'us Arelious​


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## Thee_One (Nov 22, 2011)

Yes it's always Obama's fault.
Always.

Nice scapegoating.


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## Big Pimpin (Nov 22, 2011)

Obama heckled by Occupiers in NH.   

Level 2 Community Player


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## LAM (Nov 22, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> that is the angle that LAM takes on every post he makes......he's just as delusional as the rest of the left



I don't make up facts I simply read them from historical documents and papers written by experts...unlike you I am not educated from the tv on politics or from other main stream media sources.  there's a reason why there are no conservatives anywhere in the word that hold the same views as those in the US, those extreme views only exist here in the US.  i'm sure the rest of the world is wrong and these radical conservatives in US politics are right, talk about delusional...


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## xMADxMACx (Nov 22, 2011)

SCAPEGOATING????

WHAT THE FUCK IS OBAMA MO????

NEEDS VOTES FROM DEAD PPL??  

look im not saying MCCAIN was a good cand - but obama is a fkn waffle kid...


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## Dark Geared God (Nov 22, 2011)




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## LAM (Nov 22, 2011)

Apparently the turnout on OWS is a lot less now after the eviction, I'm going to be in NYC for a job interview next week I was kind of hoping to see this thing in the flesh.


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## Dark Geared God (Nov 22, 2011)

LAM said:


> Apparently the turnout on OWS is a lot less now after the eviction, I'm going to be in NYC for a job interview next week I was kind of hoping to see this thing in the flesh.


 yes jump right in the middle and report back


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## Chubby (Nov 23, 2011)

They need to change their strategy every now and then. Our leaders and cops are corporate's puppets. They will not care if there are only small numbers of protesters. I think they should keep in touch with other minority communities since all of them belong to 99%. 
For example:
Russian community
African cummunities
Polish cummunities
Somalian cummunities
Chinese cummunities
Vietnamese cummunity
Hispanic cummunities
and many others.


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## Big Pimpin (Nov 23, 2011)

Chubby said:


> They need to change their strategy every now and then. Our leaders and cops are corporate's puppets. They will not care if there are only small numbers of protesters. I think they should keep in touch with other minority communities since all of them belong to 99%.
> For example:
> Russian community
> African cummunities
> ...



Where the fuck do you live?  NY?  NJ?  

The only thing we have in this county is honkeys.


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## Big Pimpin (Nov 23, 2011)

*Occupy protests set in different cities for Black Friday*

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP)  ??? Occupy protesters want shoppers to occupy something besides door-buster sales and crowded mall parking lots on Black Friday.




By Mark Lennihan, AP
A DKNY holiday window display in New York on Nov. 23, 2010, last year's Black Friday.
Enlarge



By Mark Lennihan, AP
A DKNY holiday window display in New York on Nov. 23, 2010, last year's Black Friday.

Some  don't want people to shop at all. Others just want to divert shoppers  from big chains and giant shopping malls to local mom-and-pops. And  while the planned protests don't appear coordinated, they have similar  themes: supporting small businesses while criticizing the day's  dedication to conspicuous consumption and the shopping frenzy that fuels  big corporations.

Nearly each one promises  some kind of surprise action on the day after Thanksgiving, the  traditional start of the holiday shopping season.


*MORE: Occupy map, stories across USA*
*STORY: Occupy protests cost U.S. cities at least $13M*
*PHOTOS: Protests against Wall Street*
In  Seattle, protesters are carpooling to Wal-Mart stores to protest with  other Occupy groups from around Washington state. Washington, D.C., is  offering a "really, really free market," where people can donate items  they don't want so others can go gift shopping for free.

Others  plan to hit the mall, but not for shopping. The 75-person encampment in  Boise, Idaho, will send "consumer zombies" to wander around in silent  protest of what they view as unnecessary spending. In Chicago,  protesters will serenade shoppers with revamped Christmas carols about  buying local. The Des Moines, Iowa, group plans flash mobs at three malls in an attempt to get people to think more about what they're buying.

"We didn't want to guilt-trip people at a mall," said Occupy Des Moines organizer Ed Fallon. "We wanted to get at them in a playful, friendly way, to support local businesses."

Protesters  say the movement shouldn't take away money and seasonal jobs from the  working-class majority it says it represents. The corporations, not the  shoppers, are the focus of any protests, they say. But organizers hope  their actions drive people to reconsider frenzied bargain shopping at  national chains and direct their attention to small, locally owned  stores.
Of course, the protesters may not realize that their plan won't necessarily punish the intended targets.

"A  lot of small business owners, if you ask, identify as business owners,  not specifically small business," said Jean Card, spokeswoman for the National Federation of Independent Business.  "I would like to believe there is a silver lining (to the Occupy  protests), but I don't picture a frustrated consumer that can't get into  a box store turning around and going to a small business. I see that  person going home."

Shopping only local  neglects economies of scale, job specialization and other pluses that  big, multi-state retailers offer, said George Mason University economist Russ Roberts.

"Don't punish yourself by not shopping where you can get the best deal; that's foolish," Roberts said.

And,  fair or not, small businesses aren't necessarily the best employers in  terms of wages, benefits, opportunities for advancement and other  measures, said John Quinterno, principal at the public policy research  firm South by North Strategies in Chapel Hill, N.C.

He  calculates that small mom-and-pops, which he defines as businesses with  fewer than 10 employees, account for nearly 80% of employers in the U.S., but only about 11% of the jobs.

"Sometimes  we romanticize small business ??? and I say this as a small business  owner myself ??? so that it skews some of our debates about economic and  labor policy," Quinterno said. "It doesn't mean they aren't important.  It just means that larger businesses tend to create a lot more  value-added per job."

The protests will be  largely focused on shopping areas in affluent suburbs close to big chain  stores. As with the entire movement, the protests bring along a litany  of causes. In addition to protests of big chains, causes include clothes  made from animal fur, McDonald's, homelessness and, in Las Vegas, the low gambling taxes paid by casinos.

The  approach comes at an ideal time for the Occupy movement because many  followers faced evictions from large-scale encampments in recent weeks.  With a large number of people in a confined space, Black Friday protests  present an early test for the movement's new, fragmented iteration.

Most  protests plan to make a point and move on, a strategy they've  implemented in some cities with targeted marches for specific causes  since the camps were broken up.

"It's not  about specific occupation camps anymore," said protester Peter Morales  of Austin, Texas. "It's more of, you know, real awareness of what's  going on in our government."

Another shop  local movement, Small Business Saturday, was started last year to  encourage people to shop at small businesses on the day after Black  Friday. But the Occupy groups are less than pleased that Small Business  Saturday was launched by American Express.

In  2010, small retailers that accept American Express saw a 28% sales  volume increase over the day before on Small Business Saturday, AmEx  says.

"It's just another example of the banks and Wall Street  trying to take the very real desires of working people to have a humane  economic system and twisting it to their ends," said Peter Rickman, an  activist with Occupy Milwaukee.

Pam Newman, 30, of Louisville, Ky., knows well the trappings of Black Friday. A former Best Buy  employee, Newman would watch troves of wild-eyed shoppers kick, claw  and scrape their way to holiday deals. She's coy with the details of the  Occupy Louisville protest: "There are some plans I can't talk about,"  but she added that the focus will be on people who haven't made up their  minds about Black Friday shopping.

"Look,  some people printed out the deals two weeks ago. We're not getting to  them," Newman said. "While we would like to dissuade the folks camping  out and 'occupying' Wal-Mart, they've already made their mind up. We're  looking for the shoppers on the fence." she added.


----------



## Thee_One (Nov 23, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> PORTLAND, Ore. (AP)  ??? Occupy protesters want shoppers to occupy something besides door-buster sales and crowded mall parking lots on Black Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Badass, good for them.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Nov 23, 2011)

I'll see if the Occupy Movement disrupts some of the "black friday" insanity shopping.


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## irish_2003 (Nov 23, 2011)

Big Smoothy said:


> I'll see if the Occupy Movement disrupts some of the "black friday" insanity shopping.



i thought MLK day was in february


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## GearsMcGilf (Nov 23, 2011)

Big Smoothy said:


> I'll see if the Occupy Movement disrupts some of the "black friday" insanity shopping.



I thought welfare checks went out on wednesday.


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## Big Smoothy (Nov 24, 2011)

GearsMcGilf said:


> I thought welfare checks went out on wednesday.



I think the welfare checks arrive on the 1st.  That's when the postman gets robbed or murdered.


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## Witmaster (Nov 24, 2011)

Some Belated *Parental* Advice to Protesters by: *Marybeth Hicks* http://townhall.com/xml/columnists/author/marybethhicks/


Call it an occupational hazard, but I can’t look at the Occupy Wall Street protesters without thinking, “Who parented these people?”

As a culture columnist, I’ve commented on the social and political ramifications of the “movement” – now known as “OWS” – whose fairyland agenda can be summarized by one of their placards: “Everything for everybody.” Thanks to their pipe-dream platform, it’s clear there are people with serious designs on “transformational” change in America who are using the protesters like bedsprings in a brothel.

Yet it’s not my role as a commentator that prompts my parenting question, but rather the fact that I’m the mother of four teens and young adults. There are some crucial life lessons that the protesters’ moms clearly have not passed along. Here, then, are five things the OWS protesters’ mothers should have taught their children but obviously didn’t, so I will:

• Life isn’t fair. The concept of justice – that everyone should be treated fairly – is a worthy and worthwhile moral imperative on which our nation was founded. But justice and economic equality are not the same. Or, as Mick Jagger [2] said, “You can’t always get what you want.” No matter how you try to “level the playing field,” some people have better luck, skills, talents or connections that land them in better places. Some seem to have all the advantages in life but squander them, others play the modest hand they’re dealt and make up the difference in hard work and perseverance, and some find jobs on Wall Street and eventually buy houses in the Hamptons. Is it fair? Stupid question.

• Nothing is “free.” Protesting with signs that seek “free” college degrees and “free” health care make you look like idiots, because colleges and hospitals don’t operate on rainbows and sunshine. There is no magic money machine to tap for your meandering educational careers and “slow paths” to adulthood, and the 53 percent of taxpaying Americans owe you neither a degree nor an annual physical. While I’m pointing out this obvious fact, here are a few other things that are not free: overtime for police officers and municipal workers, trash hauling, repairs to fixtures and property, condoms, Band-Aids and the food that inexplicably appears on the tables in your makeshift protest kitchens. Real people with real dollars are underwriting your civic temper tantrum.

• Your word is your bond. When you demonstrate to eliminate student loan debt, you are advocating precisely the lack of integrity you decry in others. Loans are made based on solemn promises to repay them. No one forces you to borrow money; you are free to choose educational pursuits that don’t require loans, or to seek technical or vocational training that allows you to support yourself and your ongoing educational goals. Also, for the record, being a college student is not a state of victimization. It’s a privilege that billions of young people around the globe would die for – literally.

• A protest is not a party. On Saturday in New York, while making a mad dash from my cab to the door of my hotel to avoid you, I saw what isn’t evident in the newsreel footage of your demonstrations: Most of you are doing this only for attention and fun. Serious people in a sober pursuit of social and political change don’t dance jigs down Sixth Avenue like attendees of a Renaissance festival. You look foolish, you smell gross, you are clearly high and you don’t seem to realize that all around you are people who deem you irrelevant.

• There are reasons you haven’t found jobs. The truth? Your tattooed necks, gauged ears, facial piercings and dirty dreadlocks are off-putting. Nonconformity for the sake of nonconformity isn’t a virtue. Occupy reality: Only 4 percent of college graduates are out of work. If you are among that 4 percent, find a mirror and face the problem. It’s not them. It’s you.

SOURCE


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 24, 2011)

I agree with most of her points. The last one is dead wrong and I don't think people with a job or people overseas understand this. I can drive down the road and see approximately 30% of the businesses that were in business 5 years ago have been shuttered. The population has increased and the jobs that were lost were replaced with low-paying shit jobs at Walmart and McDs. These military folk that will be coming back from overseas are screwed.

Our military budget is bloated, 50 cents out of every dollar we are taxed goes there. This whole sequestration has been one giant political theatre event. They have no intention of paying back this debt as far as I can see, this was the easiest way to cut the military budget and not have to raise taxes or cut SS/Medicare.


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## TJTJ (Nov 24, 2011)

YouTube Video


----------



## Witmaster (Nov 24, 2011)

Dale Mabry said:


> .
> 
> *Our military budget is bloated, 50 cents out of every dollar we are taxed goes there.* This whole sequestration has been one giant political theatre event. They have no intention of paying back this debt as far as I can see, this was the easiest way to cut the military budget and not have to raise taxes or cut SS/Medicare.


Brother, I can certainly agree that our military budget is bloated.  It staggars my mind at some of the things I see us spending money on over here.  But 50% of all taxes going to the military?  That seems a bit steep to me.

Something to consider about the military budget...

A HUGE amount of the money spent by the military is spent on services provided by the private sector.  Essentially, this money is funneled back into buisness and a lot of people's jobs.

Granted, this military is not, nor will it ever be, a "for profit" organization... that is, unless these middle east countries ever start paying us for the mercenary services we seem to be providing at times.

You know... I often wonder just how much commerce and revenue is generated just by the care packages alone that millioons of people across the united states are sending over here.  I must have at least $500 in tooth brushes in my office that I've recieved over the past few months.


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## Arnold (Nov 24, 2011)

TJTJ said:


> YouTube Video



George was so spot on with what he said, RIP.


----------



## Zaphod (Nov 24, 2011)

Prince said:


> George was so spot on with what he said, RIP.



After all this time there are so many, the vast majority, that still don't get it.  They are the ones that the 1% count on for the status quo.


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## LAM (Nov 24, 2011)

Witmaster said:


> Something to consider about the military budget...
> 
> A HUGE amount of the money spent by the military is spent on services provided by the private sector.  Essentially, this money is funneled back into buisness and a lot of people's jobs.
> 
> Granted, this military is not, nor will it ever be, a "for profit" organization... that is, unless these middle east countries ever start paying us for the mercenary services we seem to be providing at times.



most of the supply chain involves DoD prime contractors then major sub-contractors who basically only function to serve the prime contractor.  right now in Iraq and Afghanistan there are more DoD contractors than there are troops.  for decades the MIC has had an almost incestuous relationship with the federal gov to the point where some of the large company's are closer to quasi agency's than an actual private business.

there will not by much if any cuts to defense, they fund  the campaigns of to many in D.C.


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## Dark Geared God (Nov 24, 2011)

Big Smoothy said:


> I'll see if the Occupy Movement disrupts some of the "black friday" insanity shopping.


 I would love it if these Occupy wall st try blocking sum of thses BF sale in DC in the mostly black gettos they woould get stompeed out mah nigga


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## Crunk (Nov 24, 2011)

Dark Geared God said:


> I would love it if these Occupy wall st try blocking sum of thses BF sale in DC in the mostly black gettos they woould get stompeed out mah nigga



lol


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## Dark Geared God (Nov 24, 2011)

Crunk said:


> lol


 its true


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## akabeastmode (Nov 24, 2011)

occupy walll street is so pointless


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## irish_2003 (Nov 24, 2011)

they should occupy showers and job placement agencies


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## Dark Geared God (Nov 24, 2011)

I wonder  how smoothy's trip to NYC and to join OWS..I wonder if he got a batton to the head


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## GearsMcGilf (Nov 24, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> they should occupy showers and job placement agencies


 
Or a crematorium or cemetary.  It would make the final clean-up a lot easier.  The occupiers are a good reason not to extend unemployment benefits any longer.  A good chunk of them might actually start looking for a job.


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## LAM (Nov 24, 2011)

GearsMcGilf said:


> The occupiers are a good reason not to extend unemployment benefits any longer.  A good chunk of them might actually start looking for a job.



you act as if a measly $400 a week allows a person to live it up in 2011 in the US.

50% of the jobs lost in the OECD during the recession of 2007 occurred in the US, yet we only have 25% of the OECD population.

starting in 1984 there are less jobs to come back to after each recession in the US.

small firms usually pick up employment in the US after recessions not large firms, the problem is that there was too much wealth lost as a result of the housing bubble so many can no find funding and income growth for the middle class from 2010 was pretty much consumed by health cares costs, food and energy.

are you sure you have an MBA?


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## Big Smoothy (Nov 24, 2011)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Or a crematorium or cemetary.  It would make the final clean-up a lot easier.  The occupiers are a good reason not to extend unemployment benefits any longer.  A good chunk of them might actually start looking for a job.



Gears, umemployment and _under_employment is a main reason for OWS.  As you know, most working and middle-class people are working or if not, they are not participating in OWS movements across the US. 

The people at OWS are a symbol. 

_article below:_

*As Layoffs Rise, Stock Buybacks Consume Cash*
James/Bloomberg News

Campbell Soup said on June 23 that it would buy back $1 billion in stock; five days later it said it would lay off 770 employees. 

By NELSON D. SCHWARTZ
Published: November 21, 2011
*
When Pfizer cut its research budget this year and laid off 1,100 employees, it was not because the company needed to save money.*

In fact, the drug maker had so much cash left over, it decided to buy back an additional $5 billion worth of stock on top of the $4 billion already earmarked for repurchases in 2011 and beyond.

The moves, announced on the same day, might seem at odds with each other, but *they represent an increasingly common pattern among American corporations, which are sitting on record amounts of cash but insist that growth opportunities are hard to find.
*
The result is that at a time when the nation is looking for ways to battle unemployment, *big companies are creating fewer jobs, and critics say they are neglecting to lay the foundation for future growth by expanding into new businesses or building new plants.
*
*.... That helped its senior management, including the chief executive, David C. Dvorak, collect millions in cash and stock incentive payments by meeting earnings-per-share goals.* For example, 50 percent of Mr. Dvorak’s $1.03 million cash bonus was tied to achieving per-share earnings of $4.28 in 2010. The company earned $4.33, but without the share repurchases the company would have made $4 to $4.10 a share.



Entire: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/bu...pagewanted=all

And Gears, I think these companies can save and earn even more by just relocating overseas.....


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## GearsMcGilf (Nov 24, 2011)

LAM said:


> you act as if a measly $400 a week allows a person to live it up in 2011 in the US.
> 
> 50% of the jobs lost in the OECD during the recession of 2007 occurred in the US, yet we only have 25% of the OECD population.
> 
> ...


 
Last time I checked yes.  Can you not recognize an overstatement when you see one?  I wasn't literally correlating the OWSers with the unemployment rate.  It was a jab at the movement for it's lack of a coherent message.  All I see is marginally educated people with torches and pitchforks (and bongs) complaining about 1% being too rich.  They don't seem to be united around any particular cause or message, other than anger over how unfair life is.


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## min0 lee (Nov 26, 2011)

*A photo mosaic of OWS*

Zuccotti Utopia: Portraits of The New Revolutionaries


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## min0 lee (Nov 26, 2011)

> On the weekend, the park was packed with people who didn’t necessarily support the “tear it all down” mindset of the Occupiers. The man above is from Shanghai, China, and is protesting China’s recent crackdown in Tibet. The day before I took this photo, a nun immolated herself, bringing the two week total of self-immolation to twelve. This man was surprised when I expressed sympathy for the death of the nun in my first sentence to him. He told me that the Occupiers were oblivious to China’s current crackdown in Tibet.


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## min0 lee (Nov 26, 2011)

Dam hippies.


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## min0 lee (Nov 26, 2011)

> I didn???t speak with this young man, but I suspect that he is one of that very rare species of protester known as the conservative infiltrator. Such people regularly appeared at anti-war/kill George Bush rallies after 9/11.


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## min0 lee (Nov 26, 2011)

> Raz Drastic, from New York???s lower east side, is a singer-guitar player in the retro-punk style. His top issues are: corporate greed, reforming the economy, and smaller government. What ??? smaller government? Raz, you rascally rebel! You should be with the Tea Party. Raz???s Facebook page says his favorite activities are drinking Jack Daniels, communicating with aliens, and just being retarded. That being said, he was one of my favorite people who I encountered in the park, with a calm, congenial, and lucid personality.


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## min0 lee (Nov 26, 2011)

> Roll over, JFK.









> This is the now infamous Jew-hater, theCaptn'. A full month after his anti-semitic rant shocked right-thinking America, he was still an honored and protected member of the commune. Here he stands, wearing stolen police netting, like some form of primitive war trophy.









> The day before, theCaptn' was in full panhandling mode. With Sharpie in hand, he had just written on  his abdomen $1 donations ??? U CAN TOUCH


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## min0 lee (Nov 26, 2011)

> Like proto-occupier Ratso Rizzo in the movie Midnight Cowboy, this young Occupier just wants to go to where the sun keeps shinin’ thru the pouring rain. When I took this picture, the young person above was speaking to four camera crews, like he was some kind of star.
> 
> Everybody’s talking at me.
> I don’t  hear a word they’re saying
> ...


----------



## min0 lee (Nov 26, 2011)

> Here, a local resident tries to talk some sense into leftist numbskulls. These two have won life???s lottery by being born in the USA, and they don???t have a clue how lucky they are. Liberal indoctrination has completely debilitated them. I would love to send these two to a country with fewer opportunities than here for a few years to make a living. We could call it a re-education program. I can???t help but think of the book *Hijack by Black Panther Tony Bryant*, and his taste of life in Cuba, *where he learned the hard way how good life is in the USA*.


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## DOMS (Nov 26, 2011)

min0 lee said:


>




Seriously though, what is their goal?


----------



## min0 lee (Nov 26, 2011)

DOMS said:


> Seriously though, what is their goal?



99% don't know.


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## Big Smoothy (Nov 26, 2011)

Dark Geared God said:


> I wonder  how smoothy's trip to NYC and to join OWS..I wonder if he got a batton to the head



Gear,

I am not one of the OWS crowd.  It's _not_ my thing.

I probably could NOT relate to these folks if I met and talked with them.

My point is that, it's a form of symbolism. 

I'm living in Vietnam, for now.  I visit the US every year.

I cannot predict the future.


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## Dark Geared God (Nov 26, 2011)

min0 lee said:


>


 That first one looks like DOMS


----------



## DOMS (Nov 26, 2011)

Dark Geared God said:


> That first one looks like DOMS


I would never put pins on my leather jacket.


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## Dark Geared God (Nov 26, 2011)

Big Smoothy said:


> Gear,
> 
> I am not one of the OWS crowd. It's _not_ my thing.
> 
> ...


 that good comrade I'v  been there before, nice place good food..how the health care and the peasants treaded in the workers paradise?


----------



## LAM (Nov 26, 2011)

GearsMcGilf said:


> All I see is marginally educated people with torches and pitchforks (and bongs) complaining about 1% being too rich.  They don't seem to be united around any particular cause or message, other than anger over how unfair life is.



everybody knows life is unfair but there are degrees of that as some are naturally occurring and others are not.

it's not that they are too wealthy it's how they got wealthy, at the expense of the majority via decades of top-down legislation that has drastically empowered capital over labor when the natural functions of capitalism do this already.  and I'm talking about the super-wealthy because a million dollars of "wealth" isn't jack squat anymore, it hasn't been for decades.  the US is the most un-equal wealthy industrialized country in the OECD only bested by Mexico and Turkey both of which are total shit holes.

the normal mechanisms that typically help restore the economy after recessions are fading. small businesses are the largest employers post recession but the failure rate of them is now 40% avg across the US.  this is a direct result of the state of housing.  almost 30% of US homeowners are upside down this means that most of these people have no collateral to obtain funding.  the SBA aids in obtaining loans they are not a lender.  most people do not have the kind of savings needed to start up a business. the avg low savings balance is in WV at around $2,220 and the highest is NJ at over  $7,500 for non-retirement savings accounts. the economic expansion before the recession caused a temporary increase in wealth from home equity but not in real income growth.  all of those gains were consumed by inflation, energy and healthcare costs.


----------



## TJTJ (Nov 26, 2011)

Yup


----------



## Big Smoothy (Nov 26, 2011)

Dark Geared God said:


> that good comrade I'v  been there before, nice place good food..how the health care and the peasants treaded in the workers paradise?



Overall, I'm pretty happy (for now).

The health can be good, for the _most part._

For a serious operation, it's best to go to Bangkok, Thailand.  Triple bypass for examples, can be done for under $30K usd.  _Bumrungrad_ is considered one of the best doctor clinic/hospitals in the world.

For lesser treatments there are good doctors available in VN.  I recently had an x-ray, blood test and medication for about $130 usd.

As for the "worker paradise," VN is a free for all.  Little regulation, less restrictions on business and other issues.  I just started paying taxe (10%) for the first time in 8 years.  It's all business, business, business.

Still some foolish "socialist" concepts in the education system, but it's not reality.

With so many young people with iphones, laptops, and access to information, the younger generation is very, very, different than their grandparents.

There is a growing middle class.  

As the the younger generation gets older, I see certain forms of change possible coming, such as the rules on a single party, or restrictions of criticizing the greedy and corrupt numb-nutz in the government.

I'm very happy.

Still playing it by ear.....


----------



## troubador (Nov 26, 2011)

LAM said:


> everybody knows life is unfair but there are degrees of that as some are naturally occurring and others are not.
> 
> it's not that they are too wealthy it's how they got wealthy, at the expense of the majority via decades of top-down legislation that has drastically empowered capital over labor when the natural functions of capitalism do this already.



I think I'm ok with this statement but I don't think the solution is to re-redistribute the wealth. To me it seems like a 'two wrongs don't make a right' type situation. Manipulating it both ways has to end up in a inefficient anti-progressive nightmare.


----------



## LAM (Nov 26, 2011)

troubador said:


> I think I'm ok with this statement but I don't think the solution is to re-redistribute the wealth. To me it seems like a 'two wrongs don't make a right' type situation. Manipulating it both ways has to end up in a inefficient anti-progressive nightmare.



economic principles take precedence over capitalist ideals, which the US has strayed far from over many decades.  the US practices neo-liberalism (or imperialism) at the top and a very restricted free market philosophy at the bottom for labor (state and local level).

extreme inequality not only causes the obvious social problems but it causes systemic economic problems.  it's what's caused the central bank to constantly decrease rates over the past 30 years to now historically low levels.  that in term has caused capital at the top to resort to riskier methods of turning higher profits on that capital, add in the greed factor on top of that and we have the global banking collapse which started in the US and spread around the globe.  the central bank in the US has the lowest federal funds rate in the world right now.  it's another reason why large firms are investing out of the US, they make much higher returns on those investments even after paying higher corp tax rates in all other country's.

if wages had kept up with productivity the central bank would not have had to constantly decrease rates.  slow wage growth not only contributes to economic bubbles but it hampers recession recovery.

check out the brief paper from the FRB it explains the current problem with wealth lost in housing and lending for small businesses.  it's only 18 pages and filled with graphs, etc. so it's not really 18 pages of text.  definitely check out the graph on page 10 in regards to housing and page 15 where it talks about lending.

Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland, Economic Trends |
September 2010 Labor Markets, Unemployment and Wages ...
http://www.clevelandfed.org/research/trends/2010/0910/et_sep10.pdf


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## min0 lee (Nov 27, 2011)

The Sixties had Bob Dylan and Pete Seeger, the OWS has Miley Cyrus singing protest songs.


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## Chubby (Nov 27, 2011)

I think all the business in this country should be run by public, not by corporates or the Gov.  Both of these two parties are extreme opposites.


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## Witmaster (Nov 27, 2011)

Chubby said:


> I think all the business in this country should be run by public, not by corporates or the Gov. Both of these two parties are extreme opposites.


You mean the same "Public" that's parading around the streets, disrupting privately owned businesses owned by honest individuals who worked hard to build and establish a business?

These same clowns that proclaim the desire to never repay a student loan and that everything should be "free"?

That's a helluva way to run a business.


----------



## DOMS (Nov 27, 2011)

Witmaster said:


> You mean the same "Public" that's parading around the streets, disrupting privately owned businesses owned by honest individuals who worked hard to build and establish a business?
> 
> These same clowns that proclaim the desire to never repay a student loan and that everything should be "free"?
> 
> That's a helluva way to run a business.



They're also the same people that run the banks.


----------



## xMADxMACx (Nov 27, 2011)

loser wasting my tax dollars to occupy shit.......


----------



## Chubby (Nov 27, 2011)

I think it is time for Americans to break up these corporations and make these fat ass people on the top to work hard like everybody else. They have been running this slavary for too long now.


----------



## troubador (Nov 27, 2011)

Chubby said:


> I think it is time for Americans to break up these corporations and make these fat ass people on the top to work hard like everybody else. They have been running this slavary for too long now.



No, we shouldn't drag them down. We should promote entrepreneurs, engineers, and businessmen that bring the kind of innovation and wealth that lessens the amount of 'hard work' humans have to do. You can break your back if you like.


----------



## min0 lee (Nov 27, 2011)

Chubby said:


> I think it is time for Americans to break up these corporations and make these fat ass people on the top to work hard like everybody else. They have been running this slavary for too long now.



You've got it all wrong.


----------



## Chubby (Nov 27, 2011)

troubador said:


> No, we shouldn't drag them down. We should promote entrepreneurs, engineers, and businessmen that bring the kind of innovation and wealth that lessens the amount of 'hard work' humans have to do. You can break your back if you like.


I have faith in people.  I think americans are capable of doing it by themselves, without these fat ass CEOs and Gov involved.  Every should work hard as a team and share whatever profit we get we share it with all the teams,not just people on the top.


----------



## min0 lee (Nov 27, 2011)

Funny story, when I first moved into my old neighborhood it was quiet, clean and there was hardly any crime.
Once they started renting out to people on section 8 it all started to change, it got loud, dirty and crime started to rise.
I used to feed most of these kids when they would come and play with our kids, some had no food because mom or dad relied on the government to help them out, they were too tired getting high or drunk.
To those kids we were rich but we were barely middle class, as they got older they wanted everything for free, forget going to work let alone school. Some parents even resented the fact we weren't poor like them.
If I make my money don't expect us to give it all to you let alone steal from us (which later on they did) 
We didn't mind feeding them when they were hungry but there comes a time when people have to man up and work and stop expecting handouts.


----------



## min0 lee (Nov 27, 2011)

Chubby said:


> I have faith in people.



I have faith in people doing the same thing.


----------



## Witmaster (Nov 27, 2011)

Chubby said:


> I have faith in people. I think americans are capable of doing it by themselves, without these fat ass CEOs and Gov involved. Every should work hard as a team and share whatever profit we get we *share it with all the teams*,not just people on the top.


Would this be a Equal Share?  a straight-even percentage divided evenly across the entire "Team"?


----------



## Witmaster (Nov 27, 2011)

min0 lee said:


> I have faith in people doing the same thing.


 
 have faith in people doing the same thing to the same people.... even if it's different people doing it to different people.  It's still the same... errrr ish.  only different. 

I'm trying to wrap my head around this whole utopian cross-leveling of prosperity in the name of .... what the hell were we chanting for again?


----------



## min0 lee (Nov 27, 2011)

Exactly.


----------



## Witmaster (Nov 27, 2011)

min0 lee said:


> Exactly.


I've missed you, Mino.


----------



## min0 lee (Nov 27, 2011)

:d
Smiley is broken.


----------



## LAM (Nov 27, 2011)

Chubby said:


> I think all the business in this country should be run by public, not by corporates or the Gov.  Both of these two parties are extreme opposites.



it has nothing to do with the US, it's a function of liberalized trade.  every single country in the world that liberalizes trade sees substantial growth in the size of government.  the more open the country is to trade the greater the size of government.

"Using the between-sector variation in income as a new measure of economic uncertainty, this paper proposes simple models and supportive empirical evidence for the causal relations between economic uncertainty and government size in the open economy setting. Key empirical findings include: 

(1) a larger government reduces economic uncertainty, and, at the same time, 
(2) an economy facing higher uncertainty has a larger government. However, 
(3) the government tends to resort to redistributive policies to reduce the uncertainty, while 
(4) government direct spending is also an effective option for the purpose. The study also finds that (5) cross-sectional measure of economic uncertainty tends to rise when a country becomes more open to international trade."

IMF Working Paper
Government Size and Intersectoral Income Fluctuation: An International Panel
Analysis
Prepared by Daehaeng Kim and Chul-In Lee1
Authorized for distribution by
John Thornton
April 2007
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2007/wp0793.pdf


----------



## LAM (Nov 27, 2011)

troubador said:


> No, we shouldn't drag them down. We should promote entrepreneurs, engineers, and businessmen that bring the kind of innovation and wealth that lessens the amount of 'hard work' humans have to do. You can break your back if you like.



the US has more large firms than any other country in the world and more multinational company's than any other country.  there are tons of study's out now that show that too many large firms have a negative impact on local economy's, they basically suck money out of the active economy.  basically they don't give back as much as they take.


----------



## Chubby (Nov 27, 2011)

min0 lee said:


> Funny story, when I first moved into my old neighborhood it was quiet, clean and there was hardly any crime.
> Once they started renting out to people on section 8 it all started to change, it got loud, dirty and crime started to rise.
> I used to feed most of these kids when they would come and play with our kids, some had no food because mom or dad relied on the government to help them out, they were too tired getting high or drunk.
> To those kids we were rich but we were barely middle class, as they got older they wanted everything for free, forget going to work let alone school. Some parents even resented the fact we weren't poor like them.
> ...


I said everybody should work hard as team. I never said anything about welfare. Besides, if everybody is making good money, then no one should rely on welfare, because the money you are getting for free is hard work of some one else.


----------



## LAM (Nov 27, 2011)

Chubby said:


> I said everybody should work hard as team. I never said anything about welfare. Besides, if everybody is making good money, then no one should rely on welfare, because the money you are getting for free is hard work of some one else.



the US is a nation of immigrants, all from various parts of the world with different belief systems.  this keeps us from ever becoming "one nation".


----------



## Chubby (Nov 27, 2011)

LAM said:


> the US is a nation of immigrants, all from various parts of the world with different belief systems. this keeps us from ever becoming "one nation".


Why not?  Our toops are working as team to fight the war.  Why can't we work as a team to built this country?


----------



## LAM (Nov 27, 2011)

Chubby said:


> Why not?  Our toops are working as team to fight the war.  Why can't we work as a team to built this country?



racism...


----------



## min0 lee (Nov 27, 2011)

Chubby said:


> I said everybody should work hard as team. I never said anything about welfare. Besides, if everybody is making good money, then no one should rely on welfare, because the money you are getting for free is hard work of some one else.



Wishful thinking. A lot of people would rather get a monthly check and stay home. Not all but you have a them.


----------



## DOMS (Nov 27, 2011)

Chubby said:


> Why not?  Our toops are working as team to fight the war.  Why can't we work as a team to built this country?


Becasue some people aren't capable of building, and those that are, get sick of doing the work for those than can't.


----------



## HialeahChico305 (Nov 27, 2011)

LAM said:


> racism...



This right here will forever keep the people of the United States divided. its like different tribes in a jungle of cement.


----------



## irish_2003 (Nov 27, 2011)

fuck it....let's just allow total socialism and communism for the remainder of BO and one more term.....but ONLY if the left agrees afterward it was the wrong thing to do and we're able to once again be the prideful, powerful, fearful, conservative, and dominating world force we once were!!!

that means you too lam......you have to agree to this......i know this will be tough to do....admitting the left is wrong or made a mistake without blaming someone else and for once directly answering a question without tapdancing around it....


----------



## Chubby (Nov 27, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> fuck it....let's just allow total *socialism and communism* for the remainder of BO and one more term.....but ONLY if the left agrees afterward it was the wrong thing to do and we're able to once again be the prideful, powerful, fearful, conservative, and dominating world force we once were!!!
> 
> that means you too lam......you have to agree to this......i know this will be tough to do....admitting the left is wrong or made a mistake without blaming someone else and for once directly answering a question without tapdancing around it....


That is other side of the extreme.  It is as bad as capitalism.


----------



## Dark Geared God (Nov 27, 2011)

HialeahChico305 said:


> This right here will forever keep the people of the United States divided. its like different tribes in a jungle of cement.


 thay what they call the bronx the concrete jungle


----------



## min0 lee (Nov 27, 2011)

Dark Geared God said:


> thay what they call the bronx the concrete jungle



That's NYC in general...except parts of Manhattan the sidewalks are gold.


----------



## LAM (Nov 27, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> fuck it....let's just allow total socialism and communism for the remainder of BO and one more term.....but ONLY if the left agrees afterward it was the wrong thing to do and we're able to once again be the prideful, powerful, fearful, conservative, and dominating world force we once were!!!



you don't even know what socialism is nor do you know a thing about economics in the US or the world, all you know is what tv tells you which means you know nothing.  if you would read a fraction of my posts or go to the websites you would have at least a clue but you are satisfied with your current level of self imposed ignorance which suites your ideology.

it's US conservative economics that got us to were we are today as deregulation and lower taxes on capital isn't "always" good.  only children and extremists deal in absolutes.

on a personal level i'm about a fiscally conservative as they come, it's why i'm debt free (I think I have a balance of $35 on one credit card) and all my homes and cars are paid for in cash.  but you can't apply economic principles used at the individual level to that of a government with almost un-restricted liberalized trade in terms of labor, a greedy self-serving financial market and an all around heavily managed market economy that allows "free trade" in some markets and extreme protectionism on others.

you don't find any economists in the world that share the same views as those in the US, it's why in the 70's Heritage and Cato were founded and why you never see any of their "works" cited in economic papers or working documents anywhere in the world.

everything Obama has tried to do or done follows the recommendations of economists all over the globe along with those at the OECD.


----------



## irish_2003 (Nov 27, 2011)

how come most economists aren't rich? it's like teachers who never worked in the field they teach? BECAUSE THEY CAN'T HACK IT!!!

so by barry soetero following world economists advice, he's really fucking up.....but hey, that's what the sheeple want....that's what they're getting


----------



## LAM (Nov 27, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> how come most economists aren't rich? it's like teachers who never worked in the field they teach? BECAUSE THEY CAN'T HACK IT!!!
> 
> so by barry soetero following world economists advice, he's really fucking up.....but hey, that's what the sheeple want....that's what they're getting



once again the world thanks your for not reproducing...

and not everyone is concerned with being rich or having an excess of wealth...imagine that or does that not compute either


----------



## irish_2003 (Nov 27, 2011)

LAM said:


> once again the world thanks your for not reproducing...
> 
> and not everyone is concerned with being rich or having an excess of wealth...imagine that or does that not compute either



^^^BULLSHIT....otherwise you all wouldn't argue for redistribution......you lost this one....you can't recover from it.....you just admitted it finally....indirectly though

LAM IS A FRAUD


----------



## DOMS (Nov 27, 2011)

LAM said:


> and not everyone is concerned with being rich or having an excess of wealth...imagine that or does that not compute either


And you know what the really funny part about that tiny, little percentage of the world is? They live their "not financially concerned" lives at the cost of others. Do you think that the Dalai Lama works a job to pay for his bills? Hell no, he takes donations for other people who -- wait for it -- have a lot of disposable income.

If you walked up to just about anyone and said, "I have a legitimate way you can make more money", what do you think the odds are they'd say, "No thanks, I've got enough money?" I don't give a rat's ass if it a rice farmer in China, a business owner is New Zealand or a mechanic in Russia; they're all going to take you up on the offer.


----------



## Chubby (Nov 27, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> ^^^BULLSHIT....otherwise you all wouldn't argue for redistribution......you lost this one....you can't recover from it.....you just admitted it finally....indirectly though
> 
> LAM IS A FRAUD


Who is talking about redistributing your money?  People are talking about stopping corruption and asking a fair chance for everyone.  Nobody wants your stolen and cheated money anyway.


----------



## Dark Geared God (Nov 27, 2011)

min0 lee said:


> That's NYC in general...except parts of Manhattan the sidewalks are gold.


 Indeed my half-breed friend


----------



## min0 lee (Nov 27, 2011)

Chubby said:


> Who is talking about redistributing your money?  P



You did.


----------



## LAM (Nov 27, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> ^^^BULLSHIT....otherwise you all wouldn't argue for redistribution......you lost this one....you can't recover from it.....you just admitted it finally....indirectly though
> 
> LAM IS A FRAUD



the problem is your utter lack of knowledge on this and all related topics to the science of economics in the past or present.  tax collection is redistribution and it has been happening only since about 1200-1400 B.C. in ancient Egypt and in the US only for the past 300 years.

as i have stated before you are dee dee dee!

people like you are more concerned with labels than with science which economics is, a hard science with some sociology and history thrown in.


----------



## irish_2003 (Nov 27, 2011)

poor people hold me back from doing what i want to accomplish.....get off my coat tails


----------



## LAM (Nov 27, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> poor people hold me back from doing what i want to accomplish.....get off my coat tails



Isn't it dinner time for you!


----------



## troubador (Nov 27, 2011)

LAM said:


> the US has more large firms than any other country in the world and more multinational company's than any other country.  there are tons of study's out now that show that too many large firms have a negative impact on local economy's, they basically suck money out of the active economy.



Of course there are. I think I'll suffer through our destitute existence here in the U.S. though.


----------



## LAM (Nov 27, 2011)

troubador said:


> Of course there are. I think I'll suffer through our destitute existence here in the U.S. though.



too many large firms put a drag on the local economy, especially multinationals. tons of papers on this topic along with it being rather common sense.


----------



## irish_2003 (Nov 27, 2011)

with china owning the usa, asian porn is no longer exciting


----------



## Witmaster (Nov 27, 2011)

Chubby said:


> Nobody wants your *stolen* and *cheated* money anyway.


This is total BULLSHIT.

The whole "war cry" of the OWS [bowel] movement is about their want of someone else???s money.  They don't give a rat???s ass of how the money was earned and they certainly don't want to earn it themselves.  They just want it... no matter what.

And just where is your evidence that this money is stolen or cheated.  Just because someone else has it and you don't... is that your evidence?

This is absurd.


----------



## Gregzs (Nov 28, 2011)

Alan Moore On the Impact V for Vendetta Has Had On the Occupy Protests

*Alan Moore On the Impact V for Vendetta Has Had On the Occupy Protests *

Alan Moore the creator of _V for Vendetta_ chimes in on the Occupy Movement and how the Guy Fawkes mask has become a symbol for the protests around the globe. 









Alan Moore is an interesting guy, there is no doubt about that. You would think a writer would be overjoyed to watch his creations become a full featured film, but he isn't like most writers. He even asked to have his name removed from the credits of 2006's film version of _V for Vendetta_. He felt as though Time Warner had prostituted his "baby". 

And now the Occupy Movement, like Occupy Wall Street
	
 has latched on to the Guy Fawkes mask as a symbol, Alan Moore is back in the spotlight. He sees the parallels of the graphic novel and the state of affairs in many countries. He points out how in the 1982 comic the fictional police state relied on CCTV cameras
	
 on every street corner to help control the public. 

And perhaps the most satisfy parallel that Alan Moore draws upon from his 1980's ten-issue series is how the crusade is successful. He said, "The reason V's fictional crusade against the state is ultimately successful is that the state, in V for Vendetta
	
, relies upon a centralised computer network which he has been able to hack. Not an obvious idea in 1981, but it struck me as the sort of thing that might be down the line. This was just something I made up because I thought it would make an interesting adventure story. Thirty years go by and you find yourself living it." 


*What follows is an excerpt from 
The Guardian:* 
"I suppose when I was writing V for Vendetta I would in my secret heart of hearts have thought: wouldn't it be great if these ideas actually made an impact? So when you start to see that idle fantasy intrude on the regular world… It's peculiar. It feels like a character I created 30 years ago has somehow escaped the realm of fiction."​
"That smile is so haunting," says Moore. "I tried to use the cryptic nature of it to dramatic effect. We could show a picture of the character just standing there, silently, with an expression that could have been pleasant, breezy or more sinister." As well as the mask, Occupy protesters have taken up as a marrying slogan "We are the 99%"; a reference, originally, to American dissatisfaction with the richest 1% of the US population having such vast control over the country. "And when you've got a sea of V masks, I suppose it makes the protesters appear to be almost a single organism – this "99%" we hear so much about. That in itself is formidable. I can see why the protesters have taken to it."​
"I find it comical, watching Time Warner try to walk this precarious tightrope." Through contacts in the comics industry, he explains, he has heard that boosted sales of the masks have become a troubling issue for the company. "It's a bit embarrassing to be a corporation that seems to be profiting from an anti-corporate protest. It's not really anything that they want to be associated with. And yet they really don't like turning down money – it goes against all of their instincts." Moore chuckles. "I find it more funny than irksome."​
"At the moment, the demonstrators seem to me to be making clearly moral moves, protesting against the ridiculous state that our banks and corporations and political leaders have brought us to."​


----------



## LAM (Nov 28, 2011)

Witmaster said:


> This is total BULLSHIT.
> 
> The whole "war cry" of the OWS [bowel] movement is about their want of someone else’s money.  They don't give a rat’s ass of how the money was earned and they certainly don't want to earn it themselves.  They just want it... no matter what.
> 
> ...



Wallstreet caused the housing bubble and the corresponding global banking collapse was the end result and now this global recession.  both were 100% preventable and are not naturally occurring events in finance.  US home values have plummeted on average some 30% in some markets, previous US recessions were not tied to housing so there was not much wealth lost in home equity at all 1-2% in the stock market bubble burst in 2001 and the recessions in the 80's.  those in finance have very little of their wealth tied to home equity, their greed only effected others and not themselves.

this will effect the lives of many in the lower middle class and below for decades, many will never recover from this event financially.  severe recessions because of high unemployment cause wage depression this means many new workers entering the workforce now depending on the job market, etc. will suffer life-time income losses of up to 20% which is substantial.

to many think this was just "another" recession, not even close.  30% of US homeowners are upside down.  people have bad credit, can not get jobs, etc. 25-30% of baby-boomers have either defaulted or will in the future.  in the coming decades as they all start to leave the workforce those home sales to fund retirement will further increase the housing supply which obviously has a negative effect on home equity.


----------



## Witmaster (Nov 28, 2011)

LAM said:


> Wallstreet caused the housing bubble and the corresponding global banking collapse was the end result and now this global recession. both were 100% preventable and are not naturally occurring events in finance. US home values have plummeted on average some 30% in some markets, previous US recessions were not tied to housing so there was not much wealth lost in home equity at all 1-2% in the stock market bubble burst in 2001 and the recessions in the 80's. those in finance have very little of their wealth tied to home equity, their greed only effected others and not themselves.
> 
> this will effect the lives of many in the lower middle class and below for decades, many will never recover from this event financially. severe recessions because of high unemployment cause wage depression this means many new workers entering the workforce now depending on the job market, etc. will suffer life-time income losses of up to 20% which is substantial.
> 
> to many think this was just "another" recession, not even close.


 
I'm not disputing the causes of the global banking collapse. My comments are aimed at the silly and misguided assumption/accusation that ANYONE with (substantial) wealth has somehow stolen or cheated it.

While we do see tangible and intelligent arguements rising to the surface of the "occupy (whatever)" movements, the vast majority of these participants are slothful vagrants looking for another free ride and the expense of honest working people. All they want is someone elses money without the hassle of having to work for it.

It's really hard to take any of these clowns seriously when you see videos like this.


----------



## LAM (Nov 28, 2011)

Witmaster said:


> I'm not disputing the causes of the global banking collapse.  My comments are aimed at the silly and misguided assumption/accusation that ANYONE with (substantial) wealth has somehow stolen or cheated it.



because the big banks on wallstreet knew what was going to happen, it was a set up as many of the "to big to fail banks" became that way for a reason. I started doing loans when I got out of the Navy in '94 to supplement my income to my full time job with about 7 of my buddies in PA.  those of us in the business at the bottom writing loans figured it out so those at the top surely knew as they lobbied for the legislation changes. we saw the regulations change over the years, by the time it was 2003-2004 it was so bad my friends that did sub-prime mortgages used to call me up in Vegas and we used to laugh about how in the fuck some of these loan apps were being approved, it was ridiculous. and by that time we had all moved to different states in the country from CT out to CA.

just because their actions were legal does not make them any less culpable and certainly not morally right.  wallstreet banks and investment houses even lured investors to the Caribbean out of the jurisdiction of the feds years before the collapse, then bet against those same "investment" products that they sold with AAA ratings.

and not a single one of them was prosecuted, because it was legal.  and now there is a global recession because of this.  hundreds of millions of lives effected across the globe so a handful of douchebags on wall-street could make more profits off other peoples money.


----------



## Witmaster (Nov 28, 2011)

I get what you're saying, and you make some extremely valid points.  Your professions has given you a unique level of insight not recognized by many, if not most.

My complaint about the OWS squatters is that the vast majority HAVE NO CLUE what they are [specifically] protesting about.  They just want a modern-day "Robin Hood" to ride in and take the wealth from the "wealthy" (regardless of who that is) and redistribute that money to them.

Last month, Forbes Magazine asked Jeff Greene, a Billionaire Real Estate Investor, to go undercover into the heart of the OWS croud.



> *UPON ARRIVAL:* To me Occupy Wall Street is symbolic. Nothing is going to come of this immediately, though I hope that it will help shape what's to come. Right now it's like a college sit-in, demonstrating middle-class frustration, but it could eventually lead to violence and that is the scary next step.
> *FIRST IMPRESSIONS:* It looks like a street fair to me. If I had been dropped off not knowing what it was, that's what I would think. People are buying cookies, musicians are singing, people are eating. I talk to people about what they are protesting, but they can't say. If I had to guess, I'd say that 10% are protesters, 10% journalists, 10% musicians and 70% are tourists. I spoke to people from Switzerland and Israel. I expected thousands of people from what I had seen reported in the media. It was probably 50 to 100 people, many just lying around
> .
> *THE EXPERIENCE:* No one knows who I am. But not one person has come up to me to discuss anything of note. If this were my demonstration, I'd be pulling people aside and trying to talk to them. To me it's much ado about nothing. I thought there would be at least one or two booths of highly educated people with information and ideas of what should be done. I am not seeing anything intellectual coming out of this. Whether you are a capitalist or a socialist, there are smart people on both sides, but I don't see any left-wing professors or anyone with specific ideas. They complained about the 1% versus the 99% and how the 1% rules government, and I said that it only takes 51% to put the person you want in office. The guy who claimed to be the press person for Occupy Wall Street talked about planting more farms. I told him I grow my own tomatoes, but this just isn't the point.


 
STORY


----------



## vortrit (Nov 28, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> with china owning the usa, asian porn is no longer exciting



I know. My penis is way more flaccid when looking at Asian porn these days. It's almost as bad as looking at a picture of Curt James. Okay, maybe not quite THAT bad!


----------



## Dark Geared God (Nov 28, 2011)




----------



## TJTJ (Nov 30, 2011)

*ANONYMOUS: "THE PLAN" IS NOW LIVE. PHASE 1: INITIATED. WAR AGAINST THE SYSTEM.   *






YouTube Video


----------



## TJTJ (Dec 7, 2011)

YouTube Video


----------



## TJTJ (Dec 8, 2011)

*Charlie Chaplin final speech in The Great Dictator   *






YouTube Video


----------



## Big Smoothy (Dec 8, 2011)

LAM said:


> Wallstreet caused the housing bubble and the corresponding global banking collapse was the end result and now this global recession.  both were 100% preventable and are not naturally occurring events in finance.  US home values have plummeted on average some 30% in some markets, previous US recessions were not tied to housing so there was not much wealth lost in home equity at all 1-2% in the stock market bubble burst in 2001 and the recessions in the 80's.  those in finance have very little of their wealth tied to home equity, their greed only effected others and not themselves.
> 
> this will effect the lives of many in the lower middle class and below for decades....



The OWS movement should also add a new related movement: Occupy DC.

The financial power on Wall Street - a few people in the entire nation caused damage to more than tens of millions and they were not even punished, but bailed.

Wall Street run Washington.

I'm not surprised that many in the mainstream media in the US are painting OWS people are freaks, lazies, and those wanted "free" money when almost 50% of the entire American population receives a payment from the US government.


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Dec 8, 2011)

Big Smoothy said:


> OWS people are freaks, lazies, and those wanted "free" money when almost 50% of the entire American population receives a payment from the US government.


 

Thank you!


----------



## Dark Geared God (Dec 9, 2011)




----------



## LAM (Dec 10, 2011)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Thank you!



included yourself...if you deduct your interest payments from your mortgage, it's no different than getting food stamps, EITC, etc.  a hand out is a hand out

65% of the US population gets monies from the fed gov in one form or another.


----------



## Chubby (Dec 10, 2011)

Big Smoothy said:


> The OWS movement should also add a new related movement: Occupy DC.
> 
> The financial power on Wall Street - a few people in the entire nation caused damage to more than tens of millions and they were not even punished, but bailed.
> 
> ...


It is called Non Violent Social Disobedient.  This is the best form of protest.  This is also same form of protest practiced by people like Mahatma Gandhi of India against British, I think.  People should show some respect for using nonviolent method and not violent.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Dec 10, 2011)

Cheers to that, chubby.

Here's an article. Not sure how I see it. Perhaps it's too early to speculate: Will Occupy Wall Street Upend Obama’s Presidential Election? -- New York Magaizne


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## Big Smoothy (Dec 12, 2011)

On to the ports. This is why 'Occupy' may have some legs. News from The Associated Press
*Protesters halt operations at some western ports*
By TERRY COLLINS
Associated Press

AP Photo/Rick Bowmer

OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) -- More than 1,000 Occupy Wall Street protesters blocked cargo trucks at some of the West Coast's busiest ports Monday, *forcing terminals in Oakland, Calif., Portland, Ore., and Longview, Wash., to halt operations.*

While the protests attracted far fewer people than the 10,000 who turned out Nov. 2 to shut down Oakland's port, *organizers declared victory and promised more demonstrations to come.
*
"The truckers are still here, but there's nobody here to unload their stuff," protest organizer Boots Riley said. "We shut down the Port of Oakland for the daytime shift and we're coming back in the evening. Mission accomplished."

Organizers called for the "Shutdown Wall Street on the Waterfront" protests, hoping the day of demonstrations would cut into the profits of the corporations that run the docks and send a message that their movement was not over.


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## oufinny (Dec 12, 2011)

LAM said:


> included yourself...if you deduct your interest payments from your mortgage, it's no different than getting food stamps, EITC, etc.  a hand out is a hand out
> 
> 65% of the US population gets monies from the fed gov in one form or another.



Almost everyone has at least one deduction on their taxes.  Add those people to the other half that don't pay, we obviously all are getting something from the government to some degree.


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## GearsMcGilf (Dec 12, 2011)

LAM said:


> included yourself...if you deduct your interest payments from your mortgage, it's no different than getting food stamps, EITC, etc. a hand out is a hand out
> 
> 65% of the US population gets monies from the fed gov in one form or another.


 
Not sure about the semantics here. When I take a deduction or tax credit, I'm simply being allowed to keep more of my own $ that I earned. If I'm using food stamps, then I'm being given your money essentially. A tax refund, on the other hand, is really nothing more than the govt paying you back an interest-free loan.


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## Dark Geared God (Dec 14, 2011)




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## vancouver (Dec 14, 2011)

LAM said:


> you don't even know what socialism is nor do you know a thing about economics in the US or the world, all you know is what tv tells you which means you know nothing. if you would read a fraction of my posts or go to the websites you would have at least a clue but you are satisfied with your current level of self imposed ignorance which suites your ideology.


 
  You have something very much in common with irish then...


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## LAM (Dec 14, 2011)

vancouver said:


> You have something very much in common with irish then...



I have nothing in common at all with that idiot, he think's his shit doesn't stink because he works in healthcare...he still thinks that unions ruined the US in 2011 even though we have one of the lowest rates of unionization in the OECD and there is no data at all to support that statement anywhere.

you are almost as retarded, and just as useless couldn't make your own money so you have to use other peoples...


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## vancouver (Dec 14, 2011)

Occupy Wall Street in a nutshell.

Employees work just hard enough not to get fired. Employers pay just enough for employees not to quite...

You either live in 100% socialist society or 100% capitalist society. The combination has never worked and never will work.

You either want to be free or not.

Capitalistic societies have been much nicer to the poor than socialist. This is why socialism has never worked. China has become capitalistic and will one day rival the U.S. in free thinking.

Charity is cheaper than socialism. Give corporations and the rich big tax brakes for giving to poor neighborhoods. Provide opportunity with this charity (which is managed by foundations, not the governement) for poor children to break the cycle. Those who do not can continue to live in co-op housing and live on charitable food stamps. Those who do...welcome, you now know what it is to live in a free society.


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## vancouver (Dec 14, 2011)

LAM said:


> I have nothing in common at all with that idiot, he think's his shit doesn't stink because he works in healthcare...he still thinks that unions ruined the US in 2011 even though we have one of the lowest rates of unionization in the OECD and there is no data at all to support that statement anywhere.
> 
> you are almost as retarded, and just as useless couldn't make your own money so you have to use other peoples...


 
Unions did bankrupt the U.S. And if you think using other peoples money to get rich is stupid...well that explains everything now...LMFAO


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## Chubby (Dec 14, 2011)

vancouver said:


> Occupy Wall Street in a nutshell.
> 
> Employees work just hard enough not to get fired. Employers pay just enough for employees not to quite...
> 
> ...


If you learned this from your school, then that is another reason that school needs to shut down stat. This world will be in worse situation if they keep producing more fools like you.


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## DOMS (Dec 14, 2011)

Chubby said:


> If you learned this from your school, then that is another reason that school needs to shut down stat. This world will be in worse situation if they keep producing more fools like you.



Why haven't you gulped down your Drano yet?


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## vancouver (Dec 14, 2011)

DOMS said:


> Why haven't you gulped down your Drano yet?


 
LMFAO


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## vortrit (Dec 14, 2011)

DOMS said:


> Why haven't you gulped down your Drano yet?



He (I mean she) must have thought it was penis lube and used it for LHJO lotion.


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## SFW (Dec 14, 2011)

What about the naughty kids? 






YouTube Video


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## TJTJ (Dec 14, 2011)

vancouver said:


> LMFAO



These are the antics of a child. 






Just sayin'


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## vancouver (Dec 14, 2011)

TJTJ said:


> These are the antics of a child.
> 
> 
> Just sayin'


 
Or it was just really really funy. I guess you would have needed to be involved in all of our discussions to really get it. I chose to laugh instead of insult her futher for her comments of me...

Pretty mature if you ask me...


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## GearsMcGilf (Dec 15, 2011)

vancouver said:


> China has become capitalistic and will one day rival the U.S. in free thinking.


 
That's a big ass reach homes. It already rivals the US in terms of being capitalistic, but free-thinking is a stretch.  It still has a very collectivist mentality and most people tend not to think outside of the box or question mainstream ideas.  It's a huge country, but the per capita GDP is still very low.  The laws are not enforced any where near as consistently as they are in western countries and the only thing they seem to be really good at is copying others' ideas.  They make and sell a lot of shit, but there's next to nothing new coming from China.  There's also not much pride in workanship.  Most domestic products are made on the cheap and of poor quality.  It's definitely not the land of innovation.  But, that could change.  Japanese products were once considered cheap crap, but now many are superior to US products.


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## GearsMcGilf (Dec 15, 2011)

DOMS said:


> Why haven't you gulped down your Drano yet?


 
I offered her two bottles of the shit in another thread and bitch didn't take me up on the offer!


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## Big Smoothy (Dec 15, 2011)

> China has become capitalistic and will one day rival the U.S. in free thinking.



Confucianism + "communism" + a one-party system?

Perhaps the Chinese will be "free thinker" but it will be after I am dead.

P.S. - I live 6 hours by bus from the Chinese border. 

Greedy, shallow, uncreative.  Work, produce.  Think?  How about _critical thinking?_

When China produces the next Steve Jobs or Bill Gates - then - it's time to worry.


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## vancouver (Dec 15, 2011)

GearsMcGilf said:


> That's a big ass reach homes. It already rivals the US in terms of being capitalistic, but free-thinking is a stretch. It still has a very collectivist mentality and most people tend not to think outside of the box or question mainstream ideas. It's a huge country, but the per capita GDP is still very low. The laws are not enforced any where near as consistently as they are in western countries and the only thing they seem to be really good at is copying others' ideas. They make and sell a lot of shit, but there's next to nothing new coming from China. There's also not much pride in workanship. Most domestic products are made on the cheap and of poor quality. It's definitely not the land of innovation. But, that could change. Japanese products were once considered cheap crap, but now many are superior to US products.


 
  Perhaps I was taken out of context. For sure they are not there yet in free thinking, but they will be day; that might be 20 years down the road...for sure, the younger foreign educated are going to have a big impact on society. My only point. Socialism, commumism has not worked there and and it will be completey eradicated in time. The U.S. is going in the opposite direction, but they will never be a China scared: at least I hope)


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## vancouver (Dec 15, 2011)

Big Smoothy said:


> Confucianism + "communism" + a one-party system?
> 
> Perhaps the Chinese will be "free thinker" but it will be after I am dead.
> 
> ...


 
aggreed, what I said to Gears...


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## Big Smoothy (Jan 24, 2012)

*Money Insider: US Will See Violent Civil Unrest In 2012*

Armed, irritated and vocal majority will react to worsening economic decline
Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
Thursday, January 19, 2012

Money insider Charles Ortel has warned that a worsening economic picture across the globe will see civil unrest hit the streets of America, not on behalf of leftist OWS types, but by an armed, “irascible and vocal Majority”.

Ortel, a managing partner with Newport Value Partners, LLC in New York City, predicts that a failure of the so-called financial recovery will precipitate “A painful re-calibration of economic strength and geo-political standing during 2012 in the midst of widespread civil insurrection and cross-border war.”


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## Big Smoothy (Jan 24, 2012)

*Money Insider: US Will See Violent Civil Unrest In 2012*

Armed, irritated and vocal majority will react to worsening economic decline
Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
Thursday, January 19, 2012

Money insider Charles Ortel has warned that a worsening economic picture across the globe will see civil unrest hit the streets of America, not on behalf of leftist OWS types, but by an armed, ???irascible and vocal Majority???.

Ortel, a managing partner with Newport Value Partners, LLC in New York City, predicts that a failure of the so-called financial recovery will precipitate ???A painful re-calibration of economic strength and geo-political standing during 2012 in the midst of widespread civil insurrection and cross-border war.???


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 24, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> *Money Insider: US Will See Violent Civil Unrest In 2012*
> 
> Armed, irritated and vocal majority will react to worsening economic decline
> Paul Joseph Watson
> ...



It's about goddamn time.


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## LAM (Jan 24, 2012)

vancouver said:


> For sure they are not there yet in free thinking,



that is the pot calling the kettle black...you still believe in free markets that aren't free for all work sectors only specific ones...


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## Dark Geared God (Jan 24, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> *Money Insider: US Will See Violent Civil Unrest In 2012*
> 
> Armed, irritated and vocal majority will react to worsening economic decline
> Paul Joseph Watson
> ...


 First order of bizz will be get rid of all liberals


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## Big Smoothy (Jan 24, 2012)

Soros said a similar thing yesterday.

Civil Unrest.

We'll see.

More importantly what will be the result of it?   Will there be accountability?  "Change?"

I'm a bit skeptical.

Nonetheless, the 99% rising up and addressing the scams perpetrated on so many facets of our lives is needed.


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## Dark Geared God (Jan 24, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> Soros said a similar thing yesterday.
> 
> Civil Unrest.
> 
> ...


 you libs are sorso puppets..what do you think he;ll be doing when it fallapart he going to try to take over and purge the waste of human life


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## vancouver (Jan 24, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> Soros said a similar thing yesterday.
> 
> Civil Unrest.
> 
> ...


 
The 99% deserve what they get, the 2012 presidential election will prove this...

Ron Paul 2012!!!


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## LAM (Jan 24, 2012)

Dark Geared God said:


> you libs are sorso puppets..what do you think he;ll be doing when it fallapart he going to try to take over and purge the waste of human life



and conservatives are freaking retards, suck at math, forget history and apparently believe whatever tv tells you...but then again conservatives where against the wheel so this is to be expected, guess you guy's were scared of that as well..


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## LAM (Jan 24, 2012)

vancouver said:


> You either live in 100% socialist society or 100% capitalist society.



only radicals and children deal in absolutes, which one are you?


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## Dark Geared God (Jan 24, 2012)

LAM said:


> and conservatives are freaking retards, suck at math, forget history and apparently believe whatever tv tells you...but then again conservatives where against the wheel so this is to be expected, guess you guy's were scared of that as well..


 the wheel huh well i guess u were there


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## LAM (Jan 24, 2012)

Dark Geared God said:


> the wheel huh well i guess u were there



it's called reading, you should try it sometime...you'd be surprised what one can learn from it.


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## LAM (Jan 24, 2012)

vancouver said:


> Unions did bankrupt the U.S. And if you think using other peoples money to get rich is stupid...well that explains everything now...LMFAO



unions bankrupted the US? how...where is the data that supports that statement?  where are the reports?  so the country with the lowest unionization rate was bankrupted by unions, yet this has not happened to another other country in the OECD or world... probably because you made it up

making up facts in your head doesn't make them true just because you believe, it means you have some serious mental issues to contend with..and you think this is funny? feel sorry for your children with you at the helm...


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## vancouver (Jan 24, 2012)

LAM said:


> unions bankrupted the US? how...where is the data that supports that statement? where are the reports? so the country with the lowest unionization rate was bankrupted by unions, yet this has not happened to another other country in the OECD or world... probably because you made it up
> 
> making up facts in your head doesn't make them true just because you believe, it means you have some serious mental issues to contend with..and you think this is funny? feel sorry for your children with you at the helm...


 
Sorry, too busy to give you a full reply...I'm counting my money


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## Big Smoothy (Jan 25, 2012)

Dark Geared God said:


> you libs are sorso puppets..



I am not a liberal.  Not at all.

DGG,

If you're going to post on this thread I created, contribute to it.  Add something.

Not only are one-liners bad, but you don't even have your facts straight.


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## LAM (Jan 25, 2012)

vancouver said:


> Sorry, too busy to give you a full reply...I'm counting my money



what stacks of $1's?  seems you are more skilled to be a bank teller than working in securities. you have to make up blatant lies to support your anti-union ideology, freaking pathetic and sad.  no wonder the industry does nothing but cause problems with un-knowledgeable ideologues like you working in it, that don't really know anything about economics.  you should probably just mind your own business because it's painfully obvious you don't know jack squat about the US.


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## troubador (Jan 25, 2012)

LAM said:


> and conservatives are freaking retards, suck at math, forget history and apparently believe whatever tv tells you...but then again conservatives where against the wheel so this is to be expected, guess you guy's were scared of that as well..



It's guys, not guy's. How about you prove you don't suck at math?

Here's a simple one.
Determine the volume of the region by rotating it about the x-axis. The region is bounded by the given curves/functions.

y=sqrt(x-1), y=0, x=5


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## oufinny (Jan 25, 2012)

LAM said:


> what stacks of $1's?  seems you are more skilled to be a bank teller than working in securities. you have to make up blatant lies to support your anti-union ideology, freaking pathetic and sad.  no wonder the industry does nothing but cause problems with un-knowledgeable ideologues like you working in it, that don't really know anything about economics.  you should probably just mind your own business because it's painfully obvious you don't know jack squat about the US.



Ask GM, Chrysler, any US airline with the exception of Southwest if the union pension funds did not contribute to the bankruptcies all of them faced.  Yes, that is ACCURATE that it is plural, all of them have gone bankrupt more than once.  Did the unions cause it completely, no, did they contribute in a significant way, you better believe it.  They may help with wage increases and wage equality but they are not the solution to our economic problems and out of control spending on frivolous programs.  Eagerly awaiting your response to prove that wrong.


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## Dark Geared God (Jan 25, 2012)




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## troubador (Jan 26, 2012)

troubador said:


> It's guys, not guy's. How about you prove you don't suck at math?
> 
> Here's a simple one.
> Determine the volume of the region by rotating it about the x-axis. The region is bounded by the given curves/functions.
> ...



Let me know if you need any hints. 

btw, x=5 is a line bounding the region.


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## vancouver (Jan 26, 2012)

LAM said:


> what stacks of $1's? seems you are more skilled to be a bank teller than working in securities. you have to make up blatant lies to support your anti-union ideology, freaking pathetic and sad. no wonder the industry does nothing but cause problems with un-knowledgeable ideologues like you working in it, that don't really know anything about economics. you should probably just mind your own business because it's painfully obvious you don't know jack squat about the US.


 
I know...how tragic is that??? We cause all the problems and still get paid 

Still counting my money...


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## irish_2003 (Jan 27, 2012)

LAM will continue to post why everyone is wrong except who he supports but he'll NEVER post on what he thinks should be done to fix the problem...it's typical of the left to always blame and never have realistic, working solutions to problems...it's in their DNA to be that way...so i just ignore him now...i think many of you have already proven him wrong on so many levels and i enjoy reading those posts from all of you


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## vancouver (Jan 27, 2012)

irish_2003 said:


> LAM will continue to post why everyone is wrong except who he supports but he'll NEVER post on what he thinks should be done to fix the problem...it's typical of the left to always blame and never have realistic, working solutions to problems...it's in their DNA to be that way...so i just ignore him now...i think many of you have already proven him wrong on so many levels and i enjoy reading those posts from all of you


 
No,no he's got solutions, they just cost a shit load more to execute than the benefit. When all is said and done, the government would have just been better off to send everyone a cheque...

I tried to explain to him that 25% of unemployement is due to unavailability of skilled workers, that if a person wants a high paying job, they need to go to where the jobs are, just like people have been doing for centuries. He says, "no, we have to bring the jobs to them". That's how serious he is about a real debate...

The United States of OZ, this is where LAM lives. I here it's a nice place.


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## LAM (Jan 28, 2012)

vancouver said:


> No,no he's got solutions, they just cost a shit load more to execute than the benefit. When all is said and done, the government would have just been better off to send everyone a cheque...
> 
> I tried to explain to him that 25% of unemployement is due to unavailability of skilled workers, that if a person wants a high paying job, they need to go to where the jobs are, just like people have been doing for centuries. He says, "no, we have to bring the jobs to them". That's how serious he is about a real debate...
> 
> The United States of OZ, this is where LAM lives. I here it's a nice place.



I'm pretty sure your the one that lives in Oz, with all the other make believe things like the "free markets" that for some reason only see to effect the jobs on the lower end of the income ladder.  that could be because the high paying jobs at the top are protecting and haven't been opened by trade agreements except for those in IT....

going to where the jobs are isn't so easy.  

1st many are locked into the current home that they are currently purchasing to own or renting until it is foreclosed upon. which is almost inevitable for many that have fallen behind especially in households where both adults are working but the income is insufficient and wage growth lags far behind increases in energy, healthcare, etc. on top of that in bubble areas home values have plummeted and there is some downward pressure on wages as well due to high unemployment.

2nd in economic times like these employers are not looking to train new workers, they want the person to be able to hit the ground running.  hiring managers are looking for workers with specific skill sets not people that are "trainable".  also not many jobs are paying to relocate which can cost substantial monies that most people simply do not have.  jobs with moving allowances are for highly skilled positions with wages far above the median per capita.

3rd since the mid 90's older workers have been staying in the workforce longer this leaves less jobs available for new workers looking to enter the workforce.  because of this the US now has an all time high enrollment for college, etc.

so simply saying "just go to where the jobs are" in reality isn't so easy.  and the US education system is outdated and insufficient and has not kept up with the rapid changes that have taken place the past couple of decades.  the US primary education system is getting easier (NCLB) when it should increasingly more challenging and in many fields degrees from secondary education is near worthless.  so for many even upon graduation from college they still lack many real world skills to gain employment or they are underemployed, the current college loan default rate validates this.

when jobs at the lower income levels are off-shored it forces people not highly educated/skilled into long term unemployment situations.  also take as an example construction there is not many places of work for many of these types to transition into.  you won't find many pipe-fitters, electricians, masons, etc.  that are well suited for work in most sectors of the service industry.  history has already shown us that people are more productive when they can choose what they want to do for work.

and as to your comment about  "no, we have to bring the jobs to them" it is the most sensible approach in the current economic environment.  nothing is more important in recession recovery than getting the majority of people back to work ASAP before their skills start to erode and capital projects would do this and we desperately need to get on top of this.  the longer we wait the greater the costs down the road.


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## troubador (Jan 28, 2012)

How about 3x5?


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## vancouver (Jan 28, 2012)

LAM said:


> and as to your comment about "no, we have to bring the jobs to them" it is the most sensible approach in the current economic environment. nothing is more important in recession recovery than getting the majority of people back to work ASAP before their skills start to erode and capital projects would do this and we desperately need to get on top of this. the longer we wait the greater the costs down the road.


 
Do you think I could also get a prospective employer to do my groceries, wash my car and make my bed every morning...How about wipe my ass? I don't think it's fair that I should have to wipe my own ass...


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## LAM (Jan 28, 2012)

vancouver said:


> Do you think I could also get a prospective employer to do my groceries, wash my car and make my bed every morning...How about wipe my ass? I don't think it's fair that I should have to wipe my own ass...



face it your an ideological douche that simply doesn't know as much as you think about the US. 

median incomes in the US have fallen in the past years and about 60% of the US workforce has less than $1k in non-retirement savings.  unemployment out of the BLS is at 9%+ factor in jobs that have been outsourced/offshored real unemployment is probably closer to 20%, then add in 25% of the US labor force that is UNDEREMPLOYED  and you expect people to just "move" to where the jobs are when they meet the qualifications. for the most part most US workers lost an entire decade in terms of wages and now on top of that many homeowners are upside in the mortgage in bubble cities.  

people like you that work in the FIRE sector of the economy and especially finance, etc. bring in probably an easy 3-4x the US median household income and up.


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## troubador (Jan 28, 2012)

1+2


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## Chubby (Jan 30, 2012)




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## min0 lee (Jan 30, 2012)

Chubby said:


>









> In his Wall Street Journal review of Joseph Lelyveld???s Great Soul, a biography of Mohandas Gandhi, conservative historian Andrew Roberts calls Gandhi ???a ceaseless self-promoter???, a ???sexual weirdo, a political incompetent and a fanatical faddist??? and accuses the revered Indian leader of repeatedly botching his nation???s independence movement. In subsequent paragraphs, Roberts goes on to call him a racist, a child molester, and a hypocrite.
> 
> Roberts lambasts Gandhi for sharing his bed with young, naked women into his 70′s, but then directs us to the section of Great Soul that details a passionate love affair between Gandhi and another man, ???Yet as Mr. Lelyveld makes abundantly clear, Gandhi???s organ probably only rarely became aroused with his naked young ladies, because the love of his life was a German-Jewish architect and bodybuilder, Hermann Kallenbach, for whom Gandhi left his wife in 1908.???


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## Gregzs (Apr 8, 2013)




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