# MLB offseason chatter thread



## I Are Baboon (Dec 2, 2009)

So Iain, are the Jays going to trade Halladay or what?


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## tucker01 (Dec 2, 2009)

Halladay's agents demand no trade offers will be considered during the season.  So he is either traded by Spring Training.  Or they lose him like they lost Burnett.


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 2, 2009)

It wouldn't make sense to me if they held onto him.  He's going to walk after the 2010 season, so if they trade him now, at least they'll get something more than a draft pick.


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## tucker01 (Dec 2, 2009)

Yep... Only team I don't want to see him go to is Boston.


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 2, 2009)

Well you're fat.


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## tucker01 (Dec 2, 2009)

I Are Baboon said:


> Well you're fat.



U r correct... morbidly obese.

The Yankees will always try and put the best team on the field that money can buy.  Why would I give another team in our division an opportunity to be that much better then us.

For the Jays sake  let the Yankees buy the division, and hope we can be competitive with Boston.


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 2, 2009)

I would not be surprised if the Yankees get Halladay and Bay or Holliday.


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## tucker01 (Dec 2, 2009)

I Are Baboon said:


> I would not be surprised if the Yankees get Halladay and Bay or Holliday.



I am still thinking the Angels are the key buyer for Halladay.

Time will tell.


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## min0 lee (Dec 2, 2009)

*Ex-New York Mets closer Billy Wagner returns to NL East*


Read more: Ex-New York Mets closer Billy Wagner returns to NL East, signs one-year deal with Atlanta Braves


Why would they let him go??
I thought he found a home there.
​


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## min0 lee (Dec 2, 2009)

Halladay is believed to favor the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies and Angels, four of the teams that would be able to give him a hefty contract extension.
Read more: Toronto Blue Jays ace Roy Halladay sets deadline for possible trade to New York Yankees, other clubs
​


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## min0 lee (Dec 2, 2009)

*World Series MVP Hideki Matsui, Andy Pettitte, Johnny Damon denied arbitration by New York Yankees*


Read more: World Series MVP Hideki Matsui, Andy Pettitte, Johnny Damon denied arbitration by New York Yankees
​


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## min0 lee (Dec 2, 2009)

Can we change the headline to the Yankee Offseason chatter thread?
You both know it's all about the Yankees...don't make me go over your heads mods.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 3, 2009)

placido polanco signs a 3 year/$18 million dollar deal with the phils.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 3, 2009)

Mariners Blog | Oh Canada! Mariners seriously looking at Jason Bay and Rich Harden | Seattle Times Newspaper

The Mariners are going hard after Jason Bay.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 3, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> *Ex-New York Mets closer Billy Wagner returns to NL East*
> 
> 
> Read more: Ex-New York Mets closer Billy Wagner returns to NL East, signs one-year deal with Atlanta Braves
> ...



He wants to close.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 3, 2009)

The Blue Jays were dumb not to trade Halladay in-season.

They won't get nearly the return they anticipated and they're probably best off either trading him for a realistic return or viewing it as their final year to compete and sign/trade for players knowing Halladay's salary will be coming off the books at the end of next season.

It's sickening that they'll be keeping Vernon Wells in center field for next season:

"In addition to being owed $107 million over the next six years, Wells was one of the worst center fielders in the majors last season, according to UZR (Ultimate Zone Rating)."


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## soxmuscle (Dec 3, 2009)

The Braves appear likely to trade Cy Young runner-up (shameless promoting is necessary with how big of a stickler Min0 is) Javier Vasquez for an outfielder.


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## tucker01 (Dec 3, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> The Blue Jays were dumb not to trade Halladay in-season.
> 
> They won't get nearly the return they anticipated and they're probably best off either trading him for a realistic return or viewing it as their final year to compete and sign/trade for players knowing Halladay's salary will be coming off the books at the end of next season.
> 
> ...



Good ole  JP.... thinking he can dictate the demand for Halladay

If they could get rid of Vernon they will.  Look at the numbers for his contract, they are disgusting... no one will want that.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 3, 2009)

It's amazing to me how bad J.P. was at his job.  I was blinded by his east coast upbringing and Red Sox connections, but man oh man, he was brutal as a general manager.

The Wells and Rios contracts are two of the worst handed out in the sport over the last decade.

Wells' is a team crippler that likely has already set the Jays back for years to come.


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## tucker01 (Dec 3, 2009)

or BJ Ryan or Frank Thomas or Cory Koskie or AJ.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 3, 2009)

Those four pale in comparison to the Rios and Wells deals, but I certainly understand where you're coming from.

The Jays were always competitive in the best division in the sport and it clouded my ability to objectively grade him as a result.

I cringed when this thought came into my brain, but IMO, the Jays would be smart to entertain offers from the Yankees.

They've smartened up lately and would rather overpay on the free agent market if it means hanging onto their elite young talent, but it seems as if Halladay is the one exception to this rule.

There are rumors afloat stating that the Yankees would have no problem trading one of Hughes or Joba in addition to some other youngsters in a possible Halladay deal;  they also have no problem with taking the draft picks if he chooses to leave via free agency at seasons end.

It's a better package than what the Twins got for Santana and I don't see many other teams having not only the caliber of players to strike a deal but the finances to be able to trade high quality players for a one year rental.

It's the big market teams that can afford to take a chance on him and the longer this goes on, the leverage begins to shift more and more in the oppositions favor.

If I were a Jays fan, I'd prefer a package centered around Phillip Hughes, but that's based solely on the fact that ability wise their 1a and 1b in terms of what the Yankees have to offer and Joba Chamberlain is a mega douche bag.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 3, 2009)

IainDaniel said:


> If they could get rid of Vernon they will.  Look at the numbers for his contract, they are disgusting... no one will want that.





soxmuscle said:


> The Braves appear likely to trade Cy Young runner-up (shameless promoting is necessary with how big of a stickler Min0 is) Javier Vasquez for an outfielder.



Derek Lowe is also on the market, but the Braves haven't found any teams willing to give up anything of value with three years and $45 million dollars still left on his deal.

The Jays would need to add more money, but at least they could get some salary flexibility and an effective innings eater who's proven capable of pitching in the American League East in the process.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 3, 2009)

Latest buzz from the MLB offseason - MLB News - FOX Sports on MSN

The Red Sox are going after Rich Harden.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 3, 2009)

The Red Sox have expressed interest in Kelvim Escobar:



> Others not offered arbitration include former Milwaukee right-hander Ben Sheets, who is coming off major elbow surgery, and Kelvim Escobar, who won 18 games in 2007 but has barely pitched the last two seasons because of shoulder surgery and subsequent complications.
> 
> "The Red Sox expressed early interest [in Escobar] and yes, it would be a place that would interest Kelvim,'' wrote Greenberg, his agent. "We have been in the process of obtaining his medicals and Kelvim is planning on pitching winter ball in Venezuela, so we are waiting on that for now.
> 
> "There have been many teams who have expressed interest in Kelvim, but Boston would be at or near the top of that list for Kelvim.''


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## min0 lee (Dec 3, 2009)

Mets close to catcher deal


> The Mets appeared to be closing in on a deal with free-agent catcher Henry Blanco. The Venezuelan newspaper "El Nacional" reported Blanco had left that country Sunday for a physical with the Mets.
> 
> New York Daily News


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## min0 lee (Dec 3, 2009)

Red Sox moving Pedroia to shortstop?


> The Red Sox have a big enough hole at shortstop that they are weighing a big move to fill it. That move would be to switch Dustin Pedroia from second base to short, a position change a team source said yesterday was "unlikely" but an idea that will not be dismissed, either. For his part, Pedroia is all in.
> 
> Boston Herald



Guess he'll hit lead off also.


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 3, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> Red Sox moving Pedroia to shortstop?
> 
> 
> Guess he'll hit lead off also.



You seem to be rolling your eyes a lot tonight.


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## min0 lee (Dec 3, 2009)

Dye drawing outside interest


> The New York Yankees denied a report that they had interest in Jermaine Dye, but that was seemingly the Bronx Bombers trying to work under the radar, especially because a source familiar with the talks said the Yankees already had asked for medical reports about Dye. The Texas Rangers were an early favorite, but they would want Dye to take a majority of his at-bats as the designated hitter. That's a scenario he has said is unappealing. The Boston Red Sox, St. Louis Cardinals and San Francisco Giants also have shown interest.
> 
> Chicago Sun Times


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## min0 lee (Dec 3, 2009)

Yankees think they can re-sign Damon


> The Yankees want to bring back both Andy Pettitte and Johnny Damon next season - on their own terms. The Yankees don't think Damon can get a deal bigger than the two-year, $19 million pact Bobby Abreu signed with the Angels last month, so an arbitration offer would have been tempting for the 36-year-old outfielder.
> 
> New York Daily News


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## min0 lee (Dec 3, 2009)

Why Mets want Delgado in 2010


> The Mets remain interested in bringing back Carlos Delgado as a one-year bridge to top prospect Ike Davis at first base if Delgado can show general manager Omar Minaya that he is healthy again when Minaya goes to Puerto Rico this month to watch him play winter ball.
> 
> New York Post


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## min0 lee (Dec 3, 2009)

Mauer gives Twins deadline


> If the Minnesota Twins want to lock up Joe Mauer to a contract extension, they're going to have to do it before the 2010 season begins. Mauer plans on ending contract negotiations if a deal isn't struck by the end of spring training, a source close to the American League Most Valuable Player told Yahoo! Sports on Monday. Mauer would play out the season, then enter free agency primed to land perhaps the second-biggest bonanza in baseball history.
> 
> Yahoo! Sports


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## min0 lee (Dec 3, 2009)

Bay unlikely to take Sox arbitration



> The chance of Jason Bay accepting arbitration from the Red Sox is virtually nil. The subject has not come up in negotiations with the Red Sox, and Bay is expected to sign at least a four-year deal with one of more than a handful of interested teams, a group that includes the Sox.
> 
> Boston Herald


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## min0 lee (Dec 3, 2009)

Red Sox chasing Ramirez?


> Now it also looks as if Hanley Ramirez won't ever see that new stadium in a Marlins uniform as the Red Sox, who let incumbent Alex Gonzalez go, are reportedly engaged in talks with Florida about reacquiring the All-Star shortstop.
> 
> New York Daily News



Wasn't he a Red Sox before?


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## min0 lee (Dec 3, 2009)

Sizemore starts legal action over racy photos


> Indians center fielder Grady Sizemore says legal action has been taken after pictures of himself in various stages of dress and undress appeared on an Internet site Sunday morning. "These pictures were stolen illegally from my girlfriend's email," Sizemore told The Plain Dealer on Sunday night. "It's now a legal matter that is under investigation. I can't say anything more."
> 
> Cleveland Plain Dealer


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## soxmuscle (Dec 3, 2009)

Olds news, Min0.

Joe Mauer already came out and denied that report, as did the Marlins when the Hanley rumor broke out last week.

Ball busting is fun


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## min0 lee (Dec 3, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> Olds news, Min0.
> 
> Joe Mauer already came out and denied that report, as did the Marlins when the Hanley rumor broke out last week.
> 
> Ball busting is fun



I'll let you have this.
My ballbusting produced a championship mostly because of you.....you could say your a Yankee mascot, you bring us luck.


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## min0 lee (Dec 3, 2009)

Braves stay busy, add Saito to revamped bullpen



Read more: Braves add Takashi Saito to revamped bullpen - MLB - SI.com
Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription


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## soxmuscle (Dec 3, 2009)

Red Sox sign Marco Scutaro.

Blah.


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 4, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> Red Sox sign Marco Scutaro.
> 
> Blah.



Meh, it's a shortstop.  He'll be hitting 8th or 9th.


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## tucker01 (Dec 4, 2009)

Why is that blah?  

I wish the Jays could have kept him.  Amazing eye at the plate, makes the pitchers work.  Great OBP.  Solid defensively.


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 4, 2009)

IainDaniel said:


> Why is that blah?



We'd rather have Hanley Ramirez.


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## tucker01 (Dec 4, 2009)

And I would like the Jays 92-93 roster


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 4, 2009)

Bring back Kelly Gruber!


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## soxmuscle (Dec 4, 2009)

It's "blah" because Scutaro has a career .722 OPS, has an OPS of .701 or worse in six of his eight career seasons and finally had his breakout year in his age 34 season.

He signed for less than the prognosticators were expecting, so I don't dislike the deal, I just would have preferred to go in another direction.

In an ideal world, he'll regress only slightly and be an above average number nine hitter.  That or Jed Lowrie will finally stop being a vagina and bust his butt this offseason to ensure he's healthy come Spring Training and win the job from him.

The one thing I dislike is the fact that a year ago, Marco Scutaro was a journeyman utility man with no upside.  He suddenly has one good year and he's deserving of all of this money?  The Marco Scutaro from last year was different than the one I saw in years prior, specifically in Oakland; hopefully he can continue to play like he did this year and make this at least an acceptable deal.


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## tucker01 (Dec 4, 2009)

What did he get? 2yrs plus an option year

Value?


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 4, 2009)

Two years, 12.5 million, with options for a third year.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 4, 2009)

It's a two year/$10 million dollar deal with a dual option for a third year consisting of a $6 million dollar team option, a $3 million dollar player option and a $1.5 million dollar buyout if neither of those options are agreed upon.


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## min0 lee (Dec 6, 2009)

*Tough guy John Lackey is ace of free agency; Could be better fit for Mets, Yankees than Roy Halladay*


Read more: Tough guy John Lackey is ace of free agency; Could be better fit for Mets, Yankees than Roy Halladay
​


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## min0 lee (Dec 6, 2009)

I would prefer Lackey over Hallady, only because they won't lose anyone.


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## min0 lee (Dec 6, 2009)

> "Over a billion dollars in revenue sharing has been paid to seven chronically uncompetitive teams, five of which had had the highest operating profits. Who except these teams can think this is a good idea?"
> Red Sox owner *John Henry* calling out teams like the Pirates in a rant to the Boston Globe's Nick Cafardo about the faults of revenue sharing.


 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2009/12/05/2009-12-05_gentlemen_start_your_wallets_gms_rev_their_engines_with_b
aseball_winter_meetings.html#ixzz0YyAmGbUE


I agree.
​


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 7, 2009)

Let's home these winter meetings this week create some interesting news!


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## tucker01 (Dec 7, 2009)

Like halladay for an allstar roster


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 7, 2009)

The competition heats up for Bay - Extra Bases - Red Sox blog


> If the Mariners can make an offer at least close to what Boston is offering, Bay will find it difficult to turn down.


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## tucker01 (Dec 7, 2009)

That would be a place where he would want to be..... very close to home.


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 7, 2009)

Now pitching full-time, Casey Kelly - Extra Bases - Red Sox blog

Casey Kelly will be a pitcher, not a shortstop.



> And, no, they're not trading him. If Kelly develops the way they think he will, he has a chance to be their ace.


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## min0 lee (Dec 7, 2009)

*New York Yankees trade Brian Bruney to Washington Nationals for draft pick*


Read more: New York Yankees trade Brian Bruney to Washington Nationals for draft pick
​


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 8, 2009)

Boston.com is reporting that Curtis Granderson to NYY is just about a done deal.

ESPN, too:  Sources: Trade sending Curtis Granderson to New York Yankees nearing completion - ESPN

30 home run guy who plays premium defense.  God dammit.


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## min0 lee (Dec 8, 2009)

I Are Baboon said:


> Boston.com is reporting that Curtis Granderson to NYY is just about a done deal.
> 
> ESPN, too:  Sources: Trade sending Curtis Granderson to New York Yankees nearing completion - ESPN
> 
> 30 home run guy who plays premium defense.  God dammit.


I was just about to post this but then that rep featured lured me away.
Let me read the rest of the story.


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 8, 2009)

NY Post is reporting that the deal is done pending physicals.


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## min0 lee (Dec 8, 2009)

> The Yankees will deal Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy and Phil Coke for Granderson, removing reliever Mike Dunn from the original three-way trade that had hit a road block late Monday night.
> The Diamondbacks will receive Edwin Jackson and Kennedy, while the Tigers will receive Austin Jackson and Coke from the Yankees and Max Scherzer and Daniel Schlereth from Arizona.
> 
> Read more: Source: Yankees acquire Curtis Granderson in three-way trade with Tigers and Diamondbacks​



I really would hate to see Austin Jackson go, they say he's a promising player with only a year away.....but Granderson is only 28 and bats left.......


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## min0 lee (Dec 8, 2009)

I wonder what happens to J. Damon?


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## min0 lee (Dec 8, 2009)

I Are Baboon said:


> NY Post is reporting that the deal is done pending physicals.





> INDIANAPOLIS -- It took a month of complicated, three-team negotiations, but the Yankees completed the personnel portion of a trade today that would bring center fielder Curtis Granderson to The Bronx.
> 
> 
> All that was left to finalizing the seven-player trade was all sides finding no glitches in medical reports that would were exchanged today. Yankees officials did not believe the deal would be finalized before Wednesday.
> ...


.


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 8, 2009)

I wonder how the Red Sox counter?  Of course, Theo says he won't make moves in response to Yankee moves.  He proved that last year when the Yankees signed Tex, CC, and AJ.  Of course, he did counter with Brad Penny and John Smoltz...


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## min0 lee (Dec 8, 2009)

Will they go for a catcher or stay with Martinez?


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 8, 2009)

Word is they are woking on an extension for Martinez.


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## min0 lee (Dec 8, 2009)

I Are Baboon said:


> Word is they are woking on an extension for Martinez.


Good hitter but they really need to help him at defense, he's a drop off defense wise from V-Tech.


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## min0 lee (Dec 8, 2009)

*Pettitte to play in 2010MLB winter meetings: Veteran left-hander Andy Pettitte to return in 2010 - ESPN


*Does he have enough in his tank?


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## min0 lee (Dec 8, 2009)

*White Sox interested in Matsui »*

 By Mark Feinsand
                                                                                         Could Godzilla be headed to the Windy City?
  The White Sox have emerged as a serious contender for Hideki Matsui, according to a source, while the Angels have confirmed their interest in the World Series MVP as well. 
  The Yankees haven’t ruled out the possibility of bringing Matsui back, Tuesday’s trade for Curtis Granderson means that the Bombers can’t bring back both Matsui and Johnny Damon. The Yankees are still hoping to re-sign Damon, who would serve as the primary DH while also playing some outfield - something Brian Cashman has said several times he won’t consider with Matsui.
  The White Sox are looking to add a lefthanded bat, and while they are budgeting only $5-6 million for the spot, Matsui may not have many other offers to choose from. 



Read more: Blogging The Bombers - NY Daily News
​


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 8, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> Good hitter but they really need to help him at defense, he's a drop off defense wise from V-Tech.



Part of that is because the Red Sox pitchers have such slow and deliberate deliveries.  They need to work on that as a staff.  Varitek was always so good defensively that he made up for some of that.


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## min0 lee (Dec 8, 2009)

True, it would be smart to keep Varitek as a late inning backup or used him in certain spots.
I always thought highly of him.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 8, 2009)

great trade for the yankees.


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 9, 2009)

The Red Sox have claimed pitcher Ramon Ramirez off waivers from the Rays.  WOO HOO!


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## tucker01 (Dec 9, 2009)

Apparently the Rays are in the Mix for Halladay?

Seems like a weird team to be going after him?


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## tucker01 (Dec 9, 2009)

Please tell me the Jays aren't going after Milton Bradley


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 9, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> *Pettitte to play in 2010MLB winter meetings: Veteran left-hander Andy Pettitte to return in 2010 - ESPN
> 
> 
> *Does he have enough in his tank?



Done deal.

Source: Andy Pettitte gets 1-year, $11.75M deal to return to World Series champion New York Yankees


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## tucker01 (Dec 9, 2009)

Even though he plays for the skankees and is a steroid user.  I like Andy.


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## Triple Threat (Dec 9, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> great trade for the yankees.



Agreed.  They didn't give up that much, at least right now.  There's no telling how Kennedy and Jackson will do in the future.

I didn't any rumors about this trade until it actually happened, so I was pleasantly surprised.


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## min0 lee (Dec 9, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> great trade for the yankees.


I hope he fits in, his style of hitting is not what the Yankees are about. Too much of a free swinger. It's going to be interesting to see how he fits. He definitely won't bat second.



> *The Numbers:* Career line of .272 batting average, .344 on-base percentage, .484 slugging percentage in 674 games over six seasons with 102 career homers, 299 RBI, 67 steals. Led AL in triples in 2007 and 2008. Had career-best 30 homers and knocked in 71 with line of .249-.327-.453 in 2009.
> 
> *The Positives:* Pop and speed - his 23 triples in 2007 were the most in baseball since 1949. Solid gloveman.
> 
> ...



Read more: New York Yankees acquisition of Curtis Granderson could push Roy Halladay toward Boston Red Sox



IainDaniel said:


> Please tell me the Jays aren't going after Milton Bradley



Wow...I hope he doesn't. He's a cancer.



I Are Baboon said:


> Done deal.
> 
> Source: Andy Pettitte gets 1-year, $11.75M deal to return to World Series champion New York Yankees






IainDaniel said:


> Even though he plays for the skankees and is a steroid user.  I like Andy.




Good player.


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 10, 2009)

Mike Lowell gets shipped to Texas for a minor league catcher, pending a Lowell physical.  Sox will pay 9 of the 12 million due Lowell.

Report: Boston Red Sox trade Mike Lowell to Texas Rangers for Max Ramirez - ESPN


I've always liked Mike Lowell, but trading him is the right move.


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## Triple Threat (Dec 10, 2009)

I Are Baboon said:


> We'd rather have Hanley *Ramirez*.






I Are Baboon said:


> The Red Sox have claimed pitcher Ramon *Ramirez *off waivers from the Rays.  WOO HOO!






I Are Baboon said:


> Report: Boston Red Sox trade Mike Lowell to Texas Rangers for Max *Ramirez *- ESPN
> 
> 
> I've always liked Mike Lowell, but trading him is the right move.



Could Manny be the next one to come to Boston?    They could change their name from the Boston Red Sox to Boston Ramirezes.


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## min0 lee (Dec 10, 2009)

Hmmmm.....


> Ramirez, a 25-year-old native of Venezuela, was originally signed by the Braves and has played parts of the last two seasons with the Rangers. He is considered a better hitter than catcher.


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 13, 2009)

So it looks like Jason Bay is done in Boston.  

Jason Bay has rejected the Red Sox's latest contract offer - ESPN Boston

Meh, it's all a bunch of talk and positioning at this point.  That said, I like Jason Bay and want him in Boston, but he is not an $80-$90 million player.  Grumblings out of Boston are that they are still trying to pry Adrian Gonzalez from San Diego, but San Diego wants Clay Buchholz and Casey Kelly.  DOOO EEEEEET!!!


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## min0 lee (Dec 13, 2009)

This is the beginning of the end for Boston.


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 14, 2009)

> AOL Fanhouse's Ed Price is reporting that free agent pitcher John Lackey is taking a physical for the Red Sox.
> Price says he is "working to confirm" the rumor, so let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet. If true, Boston has at least a framework agreement in place to entice the right-hander to the team. This would seemingly open the door to Clay Buchholz being traded. If that doesn't occur, Tim Wakefield may be looking at a bullpen assignment.



From boston.com


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## min0 lee (Dec 14, 2009)

Looks like a done deal, I think he's also getting AJ money.

OK, they have a pulse now.


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 14, 2009)

Roy Halladay going to Philly, Cliff Lee going to Seattle, a washing machine and ironing board going to Toronto.

Sources: Phillies get Halladay, send Lee to Seattle - MLB News - FOX Sports on MSN


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## min0 lee (Dec 14, 2009)

Lee got the shaft.


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## tucker01 (Dec 14, 2009)

HAHA.  Seriously who the fuck did we get god damn it.


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## min0 lee (Dec 14, 2009)

*Matsui reportedly talking to Angels*

One-year, $6.5 million contract in works for designated hitter


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 14, 2009)

IainDaniel said:


> HAHA.  Seriously who the fuck did we get god damn it.



"prospects"


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## soxmuscle (Dec 15, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> This is the beginning of the end for Boston.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 15, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> Good hitter but they really need to help him at defense, he's a drop off defense wise from V-Tech.



if not for stupid teams extending the careers of crippling veterans such as Jason Kendall and Ivan Rodriguez, Jason Varitek would be the the worst in the game.

He's horrific defensively and his "game calling" skills are more overrated than the p/rr/s training program.

With team defense at the forefront of the Red Sox off season plans, I have absolutely zero problem with Martinez catching as many games as possible.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 15, 2009)

The Halladay mega deal makes a boat load of sense.

The Mariners are clearly going for it in a weak AL West next season.  Having a front end of the rotation of Felix Hernandez and Cliff Lee will certainly help.

The Phillies get the ace of their staff for the next five or so years (rumor has it that he signed a 3 year/$60 million dollar extension) and the better pitcher in comparison to Cliff Lee, who was reportedly seeking "Sabathia money" on the free agent market next offseason.

Toronto meanwhile rebuilds with prospects.  Fortunately for them, they were able to get a half decent return - afterall, having missed out on trading him mid-season, many reports had the Blue Jays getting less than they made out with here.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 15, 2009)

Mike Cameron has also signed with the Red Sox, making it a very busy day for me - thanks Theo for distracting me during finals week!


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## soxmuscle (Dec 15, 2009)

I like the fact that the Red Sox are again building their team around market discrepancies.  Instead of on-base percentage, this year it's defense.

Mike Cameron is one of the best defensive centerfielders in the game; moving him to the corner will improve his game IMO.

He's absolutely lethal against left handed pitching.

Cameron OPS vs LHP last five seasons:

2009: .954
2008: .951
2007: .914
2006: .810
2005: .978

This move also gives us the luxury of having four good outfielders, three of which that can play centerfield, meaning a roster spot doesn't have to be wasted on a stiff like Mark Kotsay or some other corner IF/OF type.

Instead, that roster spot will be saved for recently required Jeremy Hermida who was only traded by Florida because they disagreed with the slight increase in money he'd receive through arbitration.  

If he's able to fulfill his potential in a Red Sox uniform, we could be talking about an above average left fielder for years to come.

The route in which the Red Sox have gone this offseason was hardly predictable, but it's impossible not to like what they're doing.

Bay Vs Cameron | FanGraphs Baseball

This isn't a tell all/end all argument and if you don't believe in fielding metrics being as important as offensive metrics, I can understand, but there should be no doubt in anybody's mind that Jason Bay is not worth the money he will be getting while Mike Cameron will be worth every penny, on a short term/low cost deal (the 2 year/$15.5 he signed for).

To continue, there was never any doubt in my mind that the Red Sox were going to sign another Type A free agent once Marco Scutaro was signed.  There is no way you give your first round pick to the Jays for Scutaro and not sign another Type A free agent; for this, the Jays will be compensated with the Red Sox draft pick plus a compensation pick while the Angels, who lost the far superior player in Lackey, will receive only a compensation round pick with the Red Sox having already sent their first rounder to Toronto.

Personally, I thought they'd go after Holliday but it doesn't seem as if the Red Sox view him as a guy worthy of "Teixeira money"; hell, the Red Sox clearly didn't think even Teixeira was worth "Teixeira money" last offseason.

Once Jason Bay signs with another team, for arguments sake, lets say Seattle who has been rumored to be after him.  The Red Sox would end up "trading" Jason Bay, 27th overall pick for John Lackey, Marco Scutaro, 18th overall pick, a trade I'd have made yesteryear.

I don't know where I'm going with this but the Red Sox front office continues to impress me.  Constantly thinking outside the box and improving in unconventional ways, for instance concluding that defense is undervalued on the current market, is the way you need to be thinking in today's sports world.  Saving a buck anyway you can is vital to your teams success.  The Red Sox seem to be heading in that right direction.

Finally, I don't believe that this plan concludes by trading Buchholz or Ellsbury for Adrian Gonzalez or Miguel Cabrera.

Instead, they'll continue to improve their team defense by signing Adrian Beltre to a market friendly contract (over time, realizing that no other suitors exist and with other third basemen still available, Scott Boras will be forced to cave here), lets say: 3 years/$30 million.

Best defense in baseball, best rotation in baseball, good to great bullpen and not an easy out in the line-up.

I like.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 15, 2009)

Just for comparisons sake and because I don't see the Yankees being as fortunate as they were last season, next year.

Martinez > Posada

Martinez is a better offensive catcher than Posada, and whatever you want to make of his defense, it's far superior to that of Posada'.

Youkilis = Teixeira

I don't think you can make the argument that either player is better than one another.  Youkilis had a higher OBP and OPS than Teixeira last season and they both play gold glove caliber defense.  Outside of the sexy contract (and because I hate Leigh Teixeira with Jetery passion), Teixeira doesn't have much on Youk, but for this exercise, we'll say their a wash.

Pedroia > Cano

Cano has been extremely consistent from year to year and while Pedroia won the MVP two years ago, his numbers weren't as good as Cano' offensively.  I still think the advantage goes to Pedroia here though due to Cano' inconsistencies, but kind of how Jeter wins these arguments all the time based on his good looks and clean cut image, Pedroia wins here because he's white, a fan favorite and a former MVP.

Jeter > Scutaro

Jeter's defense again was in decline this season, but this pesky hitter refuses to die offensively even though age is against him.  Odds are Jeter comes back down to earth next year and the mere fact that I'm not having to place Nick Green or Julio Lugo' name against Jeter is a plus for the Sox.

Rodriguez > Beltre

Little doubt here, though the Red Sox have labeled Beltre as a game changing defensive player and shoring up the left side of the infield was a major concern this offseason.

Drew > Swisher

Drew is a far superior player to Nick Swisher, though I love Swish and wish he never would have dawned the pinstripes.

Ellsbury > Granderson

Granderson' inability to hit left handed pitching (.484 OPS compared to .897 against RHP) limits him in these arguments.  Both are excellent defenders, though I'd probably prefer Ellsbury who really came into his own last year on that side of the game.  Ellsbury has little power (still may be a 15-20 home run guy, but hovering around 10 could be his ceiling) but he's a high on-base percentage player who hits for average and steals 50 bases.  He takes the cake here.

Cameron/Hermida > Melky Cabrera

Wow, are the Yankees really going to go into the season like this?  Offensively, their superior but I'm not certain they're line-up is any better than the one the Red Sox could throw out there.

Hopefully the Yankees give in to Damon's ridiculous demands!

Sabathia > Beckett

Blah.  Give me Beckett for a full healthy season and I'm not so sure it's that clear.

Lester > Burnett

No brainer here, in fact, there's a chance if I labeled Lester as the ace, I'd have made him equal with Sabathia.

Lackey > Pettitte

Major mismatch here.

Buchholz > Chamberlain

Buchholz will be a force this year, though the advantage at this point is only slightly.

Matsuzaka > Mitre/5th starter

Against Sergio Mitre, there is little doubt.  Even if they sign Ben Sheets or some other available free agent, Matsuzaka will surely improve next season without the WBC and his national pride on the line during Spring Training.

Bullpens are probably a wash, though I think the Red Sox have more depth.

Overall, the Yankees had a lot go their way last year in the terms of injuries.  Next year, they won't be as fortunate and the best part is that the Yankees have very little depth to speak of, whether it be on their bench or in triple-A.

How do other people compare these teams at this point in the offseason?


----------



## I Are Baboon (Dec 15, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> if not for stupid teams extending the careers of crippling veterans such as Jason Kendall and Ivan Rodriguez, Jason Varitek would be the the worst in the game.
> 
> He's horrific defensively and his "game calling" skills are more overrated than the p/rr/s training program.
> 
> With team defense at the forefront of the Red Sox off season plans, I have absolutely zero problem with Martinez catching as many games as possible.





soxmuscle said:


> The Halladay mega deal makes a boat load of sense.
> 
> The Mariners are clearly going for it in a weak AL West next season.  Having a front end of the rotation of Felix Hernandez and Cliff Lee will certainly help.
> 
> ...





soxmuscle said:


> Mike Cameron has also signed with the Red Sox, making it a very busy day for me - thanks Theo for distracting me during finals week!





soxmuscle said:


> I like the fact that the Red Sox are again building their team around market discrepancies.  Instead of on-base percentage, this year it's defense.
> 
> Mike Cameron is one of the best defensive centerfielders in the game; moving him to the corner will improve his game IMO.
> 
> ...





soxmuscle said:


> Just for comparisons sake and because I don't see the Yankees being as fortunate as they were last season, next year.
> 
> Martinez > Posada
> 
> ...




Clifs Notes?


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 15, 2009)

/end rant


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 15, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


>



Well they were dead for a minute....actually I am glad they are still interested.



			
				soxmuscle;1941337

He's horrific defensively and his "game calling" skills are more overrated than the p/rr/s training program.

With team defense at the forefront of the Red Sox off season plans said:
			
		

> I don't think Martinez is all that good behind the plate, even the scouts agree with this.
> 
> 
> soxmuscle said:
> ...


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 15, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> > Just for comparisons sake and because I don't see the Yankees being as fortunate as they were last season, next year.
> >
> > Martinez > Posada
> >
> ...


The Sox have a better rotation this year, I really wanted Lacky to wear the pinstripes.


----------



## tucker01 (Dec 15, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> The Halladay mega deal makes a boat load of sense.
> 
> The Mariners are clearly going for it in a weak AL West next season.  Having a front end of the rotation of Felix Hernandez and Cliff Lee will certainly help.
> 
> ...



Well the Yankees will be happy Halladay is gone to the NL, if this deal is completed.  18-6 Career vs the Pin stripes.  Certainly a Yankee Killer.

One game ready prospect, and some minor league prospects certainly doesn't seem like a good pick up for the Jays.  Philly is also meant to be getting some prospects in return from Seattle, to replace who they lost.  Guess we will see, what the finished deal is.

Rumour is that Halladay has agreed to a 3 yr deal.


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 15, 2009)

What the hell are the Mets doing? Or not doing?


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 15, 2009)

*Sayonara! New York Yankees' World Series MVP Hideki Matsui signs with Los Angeles Angels*



> According to the source, the World Series MVP will receive about $6.5 million, replacing Vladimir Guerrero as the Angels' designated hitter.
> Read more: Sayonara! New York Yankees' World Series MVP Hideki Matsui signs with Los Angeles Angels
> ​


What's to become of Vlad?



> For the Yankees, letting Matsui get away isn't a huge blow, as Curtis Granderson essentially replaces him on the roster -- though the onus is now stronger on Brian Cashman to get a deal done with Johnny Damon or another slugging outfielder now that Matsui is no longer a fallback option. Matsui's departure also frees up at-bats in the DH spot for Jorge Posada, Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter and potentially Damon, all of whom are 34 or older.



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/touchingbase/2009/12/hideki-heads-west.html#ixzz0ZlmsswS5

Bay could be in the works now, I have a feeling it's not over.
​


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 15, 2009)

If I was the Phils I would have kept Lee...he was awesome against the Yankees last year....good thing for the Mets they don't have both Lee and Doc pitching against them, not that it would make a difference.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 15, 2009)

IainDaniel said:


> Well the Yankees will be happy Halladay is gone to the NL, if this deal is completed.  18-6 Career vs the Pin stripes.  Certainly a Yankee Killer.
> 
> One game ready prospect, and some minor league prospects certainly doesn't seem like a good pick up for the Jays.  Philly is also meant to be getting some prospects in return from Seattle, to replace who they lost.  Guess we will see, what the finished deal is.
> 
> Rumour is that Halladay has agreed to a 3 yr deal.



Halladay is going through his physical today and the deal will be finalized once it's completed.

He already has a 3 year/$60 million dollar deal in place with apparently two vesting options that could make it a 5 year/$100 million dollar deal.  Not sure how those extra two years vest, but if they favor Philly in any way, shape or form, the Phillies will have one of the best pitchers in the game (if not the best) at a discount.

Philly sent Cliff Lee to Seattle for a group of prospects who in-turn are being shipped to Toronto.  The reason being is that the Phillies didn't want to go give up their best starter, Kyle Drabek.

Again, what a catastrophic error on Toronto's part not to cash in their chips at the trade deadline.

Sorry, Iain.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 15, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> If I was the Phils I would have kept Lee...he was awesome against the Yankees last year....good thing for the Mets they don't have both Lee and Doc pitching against them, not that it would make a difference.



They didn't want to give up their best young arm in Kyle Drabek and with money being tight, they couldn't afford to have both Lee and Halladay on the roster since Joe Blanton (will make over $7 million in arbitration) couldn't net them anything of value.

Lee is going to test the free agency next year and he's reportedly looking for "Sabathia money."

With this deal, not only do they get their ace for next season but they were able to lock him up long term for a contract below market value.


----------



## tucker01 (Dec 15, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> Halladay is going through his physical today and the deal will be finalized once it's completed.
> 
> He already has a 3 year/$60 million dollar deal in place with apparently two vesting options that could make it a 5 year/$100 million dollar deal.  Not sure how those extra two years vest, but if they favor Philly in any way, shape or form, the Phillies will have one of the best pitchers in the game (if not the best) at a discount.
> 
> ...




Oh I know.  Thanks JP.  What a clusterfuck he was.

Are you saying that the Jays aren't getting Drabek? ugh


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 15, 2009)

It's all speculation at this point, but that's what I've been reading.

Here's another speculative blurb listing Drabek as one of the players heading to Toronto though:

"Let's recap this three-team blockbuster trade once again: The Phillies will get Halladay from Toronto and two or three prospects from Seattle (possibly RHP Phillippe Aumont, RHP Juan Ramirez and OF Tyson Gilles); the Blue Jays will get outfielder Michael Taylor, catching prospect Travis d'Arnaud and pitcher Kyle Drabek from the Phillies; Seattle will receive Cliff Lee. Halladay will then ink a three-year, $60 million extension with Philadelphia. Stay tuned as this all gets sorted out and the exact money exchanged is revealed."

This deal is causing a ton of uproar:

Blue Jays baseball blog

Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star is pissed.

The Deal As We Know It | U.S.S. Mariner

The USS Mariner suggests Seattle fans dance in the streets.

I think you got to love what the Mariners are doing this offseason knowing that the Angels are going to be worse after having lost Figgins, Guerrero and Lackey, among others.


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 15, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> I think you got to love what the Mariners are doing this offseason knowing that the *Angels are going to be worse after having lost Figgins, Guerrero and Lackey, among others.*


This, they lost a lot.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 15, 2009)

White Sox get Juan Pierre for 2 PTBNL.

Dodgers are paying half of the $18.5 million left on his two year deal.

Decent haul for the White Sox who seemed to have always been in favor of Juan Pierre' game, most notably before losing out to the Cubs for his services on the free agent market.


----------



## tucker01 (Dec 15, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> It's all speculation at this point, but that's what I've been reading.
> 
> Here's another speculative blurb listing Drabek as one of the players heading to Toronto though:
> 
> ...



That was the Deal as I saw it.  I am still not happy about it, and agree with Richard Griffen.  It doesn't seem right that the phillies basically get halladay for Lee.  With a little shuffle of prospects, that won't really change things.  If anything I would think that the Jays would have a ton of interest in the Canadian prospects that are meant to be going back to Philly.  

The way it is laid out right now.... It makes absolutely no sense to the Jays.  Other then they got there ass pounded hard.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 15, 2009)

That division is so wide open, I think it's a great idea for the Mariners to take advantage.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 15, 2009)

IainDaniel said:


> That was the Deal as I saw it.  I am still not happy about it, and agree with Richard Griffen.  It doesn't seem right that the phillies basically get halladay for Lee.  With a little shuffle of prospects, that won't really change things.  If anything I would think that the Jays would have a ton of interest in the Canadian prospects that are meant to be going back to Philly.
> 
> The way it is laid out right now.... It makes absolutely no sense to the Jays.  Other then they got there ass pounded hard.



Buster Olney reported that the Yankees had offered more in return.

Depending on what that package was, I can understand not wanting to trade him within the division, but the Jays need as much talent as they can get.


----------



## tucker01 (Dec 15, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> That division is so wide open, I think it's a great idea for the Mariners to take advantage.



Oh agreed on that.

This deal better not be right as purposed or shit is going to hit the fan.


----------



## tucker01 (Dec 15, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> Buster Olney reported that the Yankees had offered more in return.
> 
> Depending on what that package was, I can understand not wanting to trade him within the division, but the Jays need as much talent as they can get.



I think Anthopolous has absolutely no interest in bolstering any division Rivals, which is kudos to him.  With Halladay with the Phillies I will still follow him and be a huge fan.  He is a pure class act.


If he was a Skankee I would spit on him


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 15, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> *Sayonara! New York Yankees' World Series MVP Hideki Matsui signs with Los Angeles Angels*
> 
> What's to become of Vlad?
> 
> ...




Vlad will have to stay in the American League.  One of the reasons why trading a 25 year old catcher who was highly touted before hurting himself and having a bad year this past seasons for a DH is ridiculously stupid.  I understand that the Red Sox are going to be paying his entire salary (or $9 of the $12) but I'd rather keep Max Ramirez if I'm the Rangers and sign Vlad for a couple million more.

Obviously Major League Baseball is in control of their finances, but if they truly want to improve that team or make it competitive, utilize the influx of possible DH's (there are a ton of corner IF/OF's available this offseason) and hang on to your young catcher, regardless of depth at the position.

If Jason Bay were to sign in New York, I'd be pretty ecstatic.  I love him, don't get me wrong, but the mere thought of seeing that team age would bring a tear to my eye.

Posada shouldn't be catching, A-Rod and Jeter are shells of their former selves, and Bay is an atrocious fielder who would be even worse off playing half his games at Yankee stadium.

Signing Bay to a long term deal and essentially having 4-5 players who are best suited for the DH position is far from wise IMO.

The game is about run differential.  Defense is important too.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 15, 2009)

IainDaniel said:


> I think Anthopolous has absolutely no interest in bolstering any division Rivals, which is kudos to him.  With Halladay with the Phillies I will still follow him and be a huge fan.  He is a pure class act.
> 
> 
> If he was a Skankee I would spit on him



Good point.

He was really the only reason since the early '90s to go see baseball in Toronto.

The Phillies will probably be your NL squad now, kind of like the Dodgers for me when the pure class act, Manny Ramirez, was shipped to LA


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 15, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> A-Rod and Jeter are shells of their former selves,


----------



## tucker01 (Dec 15, 2009)

Apparently part of the Deal has the Jays moving the newly acquired Taylor to Oakland for former 1st rounder Brett Wallace


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 15, 2009)

*Yankees not interested in Bay*


According to a Yankees source, the club has no interest in signing Bay to a long-term deal, not wanting to commit more than $60 million to another outfielder. 
  The Yankees, like the Red Sox, don’t believe that Bay will be a productive outfielder for the next four years, and they have no plans to commit big dollars to a player that will likely be a designated hitter before the contract is finished.

Read more: Blogging The Bombers - NY Daily News
​


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 15, 2009)

The desperate Mets will overpay for him and then leave the fans wondering why they signed him.

There must be something in the air in Flushing, some good players really bomb there.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 15, 2009)

min0 lee said:


>



their defensive skills are diminishing with age.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 15, 2009)

it goes without saying that i said this last year and the yankees won the world series, so...


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 16, 2009)

True, less range....


----------



## tucker01 (Dec 16, 2009)

Apparently Taylor part of the Halladay trade. Failed his physical..... Wonder what that will mean?!?!!?!?!


----------



## I Are Baboon (Dec 16, 2009)

Red Sox working hard to get Adrian Gonzalez.
Rosenthal: Red Sox in pursuit of Adrian Gonzalez - MLB News - FOX Sports on MSN

Mets still working a Jason Bay deal.
Sources: New York Mets, OF Jason Bay remain in serious talks - ESPN


----------



## tucker01 (Dec 16, 2009)

Deal official now.  Jays got ass raped.

The Phillies made out sweet.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 16, 2009)

The Phillies got some long term security they didn't have before, but in total they gave up quite a bit.

I don't mind the package the Jays got.  If Drabek pans out like they think they he will, him and Wallace will be two very solid players and thus a good deal.


----------



## tucker01 (Dec 17, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> The Phillies got some long term security they didn't have before, but in total they gave up quite a bit.
> 
> I don't mind the package the Jays got.  If Drabek pans out like they think they he will, him and Wallace will be two very solid players and thus a good deal.




Hopefully Drabek does pan out.  But given the fact he had TJ surgery in 2007 I am a little skeptical about his longevity.

Phillies received good prospects back in return for Cliff Lee, so basically it worked out the Phillies exchanged Lee for Halladay and got Halladay at Lee's Current Salary, plus signed him to a contract.


----------



## Triple Threat (Dec 17, 2009)

I Are Baboon said:


> Clifs Notes?



Sure.  sox thinks the Red Sox will be so good next year that they should just skip the season and give them the 2010 WS trophy now.


----------



## I Are Baboon (Dec 17, 2009)

Triple Threat said:


> Sure.  sox thinks the Red Sox will be so good next year that they should just skip the season and give them the 2010 WS trophy now.



He says that every year.


----------



## Triple Threat (Dec 17, 2009)

I Are Baboon said:


> He says that every year.



I know, hence the  smilie.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 17, 2009)

Are message boards not for discussing?

They've been a top team in baseball for the last 10+ years.  Believing that a top team in baseball who's won more World Series' than any other team throughout this decade is not far fetched.

Obviously the Yankees have a great nucleus and should be right in the thick of things next year.  That goes without saying.  Nonetheless, I don't think you can expect them to be as fortunate as they were last year from a health stand point.  Every single thing after Rodriguez returned mid-season, went their way.  Every single thing.

Have a few of the cards fall in the Red Sox favor and it could have been a different story.


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 17, 2009)

Triple Threat said:


> Sure.  sox thinks the Red Sox will be so good next year that they should just skip the season and give them the 2010 WS trophy now.




So true....he must have punched his wall when the Yanks won.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 17, 2009)

I really didn't watch the World Series.  It was clear that the Yankees were the most talented team.


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 21, 2009)

Marquis has agreed to a two-year, $15 million deal with the Nationals.
Read more: Blogging The Bombers - NY Daily News
​


----------



## Triple Threat (Dec 21, 2009)

Yankees sign Nick Johnson, 1 yr, $5.5M.  That probably means sayanara to Johnny Damon.


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 21, 2009)

Triple Threat said:


> Yankees sign Nick Johnson, 1 yr, $5.5M.  That probably means sayanara to Johnny Damon.


I'm going to miss Damon hitting in the #2 spot, that drove the pitchers crazy.
What I liked about it was that even if they got Jeter out they still to deal with Damon.
His defense really did suck though.


----------



## I Are Baboon (Dec 21, 2009)

It looks like Johnnnny Damon and Jason Bay overplayed their hands.


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 21, 2009)

Big time.


----------



## Triple Threat (Dec 21, 2009)

I Are Baboon said:


> It looks like Johnnnny Damon and Jason Bay overplayed their hands.



Damon for sure.

I thought I read somewhere that the Mets were offering Bay $65M for 4 yrs.  Did the Red Sox ever make him an offer or give an indication of what they were willing to pay?


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 21, 2009)

The Jays may have stolen Brandon Morrow from Seattle...

keep that head up, iain.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 21, 2009)

Triple Threat said:


> Damon for sure.
> 
> I thought I read somewhere that the Mets were offering Bay $65M for 4 yrs.  Did the Red Sox ever make him an offer or give an indication of what they were willing to pay?



the sox offered bay 4/60, but he rejected it and pursued other options.  thus far the mariners and mets showed interest, but the mariners were able to rid themselves of carlos silva and acquire that bat they needed for less money.  the mets are reluctant to go to the five years bay's demanding because they don't feel as if other teams have made competitive enough offers to warrant adding a fifth year.  his agent has since gone back to the red sox to dry and drum up interest, but i dont think they'll have any with the draft pick compensation if he signs with most other major league teams and the fact that the sox don't want their payroll approaching within 50 million dollars of yankee territory.

i really think bay is stuck.  he thought he would either be back in boston or in his home town seattle team.  holliday and bay are going to go hand in hand and its interesting that yet again scott boras is involved with the offseason drama.


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

> but the mariners were able to rid themselves of carlos silva and acquire that bat they needed for less money


They swapped him for Milton Bradly....let's see how that works out.
The Red Sox did the right thing, Bay is asking for too much and now he's asking the Mets for 5 years...I don't think he wants to go to the Mets.


----------



## I Are Baboon (Dec 22, 2009)

Triple Threat said:


> Damon for sure.
> 
> I thought I read somewhere that the Mets were offering Bay $65M for 4 yrs.  Did the Red Sox ever make him an offer or give an indication of what they were willing to pay?



Personally, I think Bay was trying to use the Mets/Mariners as leverage to squeeze more money out of the Red Sox.  Looks like that backfired on him.  I really don't think he'd prefer to play for the Mets or Mariners over the Red Sox.  I read on a Boston website yesterday that Bay is probably demanding a 5th year out of the Mets because he knows they won't give it to him and he really doesn't want to play there.


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

I Are Baboon said:


> Personally, I think Bay was trying to use the Mets/Mariners as leverage to squeeze more money out of the Red Sox.  Looks like that backfired on him.  I really don't think he'd prefer to play for the Mets or Mariners over the Red Sox.  I read on a Boston website yesterday that Bay is probably demanding a 5th year out of the Mets because he knows they won't give it to him and he really doesn't want to play there.


I read the same thing.


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

*Yankees land Javier Vazquez in deal with Braves that sends Melky Cabrera, two prospects to Atlanta*


Read more: Yankees land Javier Vazquez in deal with Braves that sends Melky Cabrera, two prospects to Atlanta

I don't like this at all.  
​


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> They swapped him for Milton Bradly....let's see how that works out.
> The Red Sox did the right thing, Bay is asking for too much and now he's asking the Mets for 5 years...I don't think he wants to go to the Mets.



Carlos Silva was the worst pitcher in all of baseball over the last two seasons.  Not one of the worst; _the worst_.

Milton Bradley was never given a fair shake and once again, Cubs management proves that they are just behind the times when it comes to building a successful baseball team.

He has a career OPS of .821 to Jason Bay's .896 and though its a considerable difference, much of it has to be credited for how his tenure with teams have come to an end.

For short money and un-Cub-like expectations, Milton Bradley is an excellent acquisition for their DH spot.

In all seriousness, Jason Bay mine as well be a DH with how horrific of a defender he is.  The Mets would be making a mistake to give him a five year deal.

I don't think he wants to go to the Mets either.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> *Yankees land Javier Vazquez in deal with Braves that sends Melky Cabrera, two prospects to Atlanta*
> 
> 
> Read more: Yankees land Javier Vazquez in deal with Braves that sends Melky Cabrera, two prospects to Atlanta
> ...



He was my NL Cy Young pick in the prediction thread last year and boy, oh boy, was that an excellent pick.

/pats back

With that said, he's shown that he isn't capable of being a dominant pitcher in the American League on a couple of occasions and though I was hoping Sergio Mitre or some stiff would slide into that fifth starter slot, it could be worse.

I'm not really sure whats not to like though.  The Yankees opened up a slot for an outfielder which is certain to be a free agent and improved their rotation.  Why no likey?


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

Bradley has been given so many chances to start over....he's a nut, plain and simple.
I mentioned this before. He may flourish over there where the Media isn't do big.
He still has to deal with the media and the fans on the road.
He'll have another meltdown.

5 years at his age for a B player......too much.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> Bradley has been given so many chances to start over....he's a nut, plain and simple.
> I mentioned this before. He may flourish over there where the Media isn't do big.
> He still has to deal with the media and the fans on the road.
> He'll have another meltdown.
> ...



He is most certainly an interesting guy, but I am completely on his side over the most recent incident.

The Cubs essentially bid against themselves, locked in a player with terrible defensive metrics and a history filled with injuries to play an outfield position when he had been a successful DH the year before.

It would be like David Ortiz having a revived season next year and the Cubs locking him up for double the money and years than any other team is willing to offer him.

It was an absolutely brutal move, from the second the ink dried on the contract.  His downfall in Chicago had everything to do with the money he was being paid, and the perception based off of the signing that the Cubs were getting this guy with an OPS over 1.000 last year.

Once again, the Cubs are a horrific franchise right now and I'm excited for Bradley to improve on his numbers from last season while manning the DH spot he's had success and good health with in recent years.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

I really don't understand how you can be angry at the prospect of acquiring Javier Vasquez for what they gave up.

Melky Cabrera is crap, same goes for Gardner.  Don't go thinking any differently just because they're overhyped in New York.

The only reasonable reason to dislike this deal (and because it's an inexpensive upgrade over Mitre, it's hardly reasonable) would be because you don't think he can pitch in the American League.

I'm speechless, Min0 - what is not to like here?


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> He was my NL Cy Young pick in the prediction thread last year and boy, oh boy, was that an excellent pick.
> 
> /pats back
> 
> ...



I wasn't impressed with his first tour of duty here, word is he can't handle the AL hitters.
I know this may sound corny but this team had some good chemistry going for it. Now little by little they are tearing it apart.
I know Damon and Matsui are both no longer outfielders full time but they could DH. I understand one of them had to leave in order to allow Posoda to bat more in the DH spot but still...

I liked what Melky did for us in the past, yes he's a 4th outfielder on this team but he sure did get a lot of walkoffs last year that sort of made me a fan.
They also sent the young arm of Dunn who I thought was not to be traded.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

The Yankees thus far this offseason have added Nick Johnson, Curtis Granderson and Javier Vasquez without giving up anything of value.

They've also opened up a slot in left field, which means either Damon is going to return or Holliday will be in pinstripes.

I really just am baffled here.  There is not one thing to dislike about this trade.  Not one.

This singlehandedly alters that little comparison I made last week.

Martinez > Posada
Youkilis = Teixeira
Pedroia > Cano
Scutaro < Jeter
Beltre? < Rodriguez
Drew > Swisher
Ellsbury > Granderson
Cameron < Holliday
Ortiz = Johnson

It also allows Hughes to stay in the bullpen, seemingly upgrading every other aspect of this ballclub.

Without any payroll limitations, it sure is easy to be a general manager.


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> > I really don't understand how you can be angry at the prospect of acquiring Javier Vasquez for what they gave up.
> 
> 
> Angry? Why? this isn't the Tom Seaver trade to the Reds deal.
> ...


Nothing to like.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> I wasn't impressed with his first tour of duty here, word is he can't handle the AL hitters.
> I know this may sound corny but this team had some good chemistry going for it. Now little by little they are tearing it apart.
> I know Damon and Matsui are both no longer outfielders full time but they could DH. I understand one of them had to leave in order to allow Posoda to bat more in the DH spot but still...
> 
> ...



Chemistry issues?  Come on...

Nick Johnson is making less money than Matsui signed for and won't take a commitment of years that Damon is demanding.  He's also the superior player to both, when healthy.

Vasquez has pitched in 200+ innings in every year (198 in 2004) dating back to 1999.  He's a horse who is making short money.

Dunn, Vasquez... the Yankees were able to acquire Vasquez and Granderson without giving up Montero, Hughes or Joba.  The rest of their farm system is filled with dominican power arms with upside who are most likely to be bullpen fodder; there was no need for Dunn or Vasquez.  In the large scheme of things, they won't be missed.

Management was an issue for the Yankees in years past.  The last two seasons they've used their money wisely.  Limitless budget + spending money wisely = scary proposition.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

The plan is clear.  Matt Holliday will be in pinstripes before the new year.


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> > > Chemistry issues?  Come on...
> >
> >
> > Yes, there is such a thing. This team from the start of the season had fun. This is the first time since the 90's that I have seen them have fun playing.
> > ...


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

Funny, 99% of the Yankee fans dislike it except for you and Mike Francesa.


----------



## I Are Baboon (Dec 22, 2009)

I liken the Javier Vasquez acquisition to that of picking up a utility infielder:  No big deal, won't really make a difference in the grand scheme of things, fills a hole, won't be a game changer.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> Funny, 99% of the Yankee fans dislike it except for you and Mike Francesa.



Where?

Everything I'm reading is calling Frank Wren the worst general manager in the league, the Braves no longer a first class organization and Cashman continuing his flawless offseason.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

I Are Baboon said:


> I liken the Javier Vasquez acquisition to that of picking up a utility infielder:  No big deal, won't really make a difference in the grand scheme of things, fills a hole, won't be a game changer.



Odds are Vasquez will regress having come back to the American League, but he's absolutely a big deal.

Pushing Joba and Hughes down a spot in the rotation, ridding yourself of a loss every five days which was sure to result if Sergio Mitre were to be the starter every fifth day in the process, will help immensely.  

By opening up an outfield spot, the Yankees will be trading two lottery ticket young hurlers with limited success and very little control (most likely, bullpen fodder that means nothing to the Yankees) and a dime-a-dozen fourth outfielder who in this day and age, could have been had for a bag of baseballs like the Red Sox gave up for Jeremy Hermida, a player with twice as much upside and talent as Melky Cabrera.

Yankees get: Matt Holliday, Javier Vasquez, an improved bullpen for Melky Cabrera and two decent prospects is an excellent haul.

The Yankees have dramatically improved since my post last week.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> soxmuscle said:
> 
> 
> > > Yes, there is such a thing. This team from the start of the season had fun. This is the first time since the 90's that I have seen them have fun playing.
> ...


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> Where?
> 
> Everything I'm reading is calling Frank Wren the worst general manager in the league, the Braves no longer a first class organization and Cashman continuing his flawless offseason.


Fans dude..fans.


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> Odds are Vasquez will regress having come back to the American League, but he's absolutely a big deal.
> 
> Pushing Joba and Hughes down a spot in the rotation, ridding yourself of a loss every five days which was sure to result if Sergio Mitre were to be the starter every fifth day in the process, will help immensely.
> 
> ...


Holliday? Is he a Yankee? I think your mistaken, he didn't sign up with anyone.

This may be Cashen's suprise, it's Holliday or they bring back Damon.


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

*Diamond Duds: Big Apple Baseball's Most Disastrous Moves*





*Javier Vazquez*
_Acquired in trade with Expos on Dec. 16, 2003, for Nick Johnson, Randy Choate and Juan Rivera _
At the time of the deal, Nick Johnson is still considered a future superstar by Yankee brass, but he's worth dealing for Vazquez, who's coming off a 241-strikeout season. His lone year in the Bronx fails to live up to that standard - as 150 Ks and a 4.91 ERA can attest - but he earns all-time bust status in the '04 ALCS against the Red Sox. Vazquez twice enters ballgames in relief of Kevin Brown. He manages to win a blowout despite a poor effort in Game 3 but walks five and allows three earned runs in two innings in Game 7, failing to stop the bleeding as the Bosox triumph.



Read more: Diamond Duds: Big Apple Baseball's Most Disastrous Moves
​

Oh the memories. 
​


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

*Hardball's 10 thoughts on the Vazquez trade*



*1.* The Yankees pursued both Roy Halladay and made a hard, late push for Cliff Lee. They always felt that Toronto would never trade Halladay in the division unless the Yanks were willing to make a trade they would never make because it would cost far too much in young talent. They felt Lee might be different coming from Philly. But by the end, the Yanks also came to believe the Phillies would rather put Lee as far from their fan base???s consciousness as possible, and Seattle fit that criteria.
 Halladay and Lee represented the perfect acquisition this offseason for the Yankees. They were top-of-the-rotation monsters who had proven themselves in the AL and, in Lee???s case, in the postseason, as well.
 Once perfect left the building they had to try to find the next-best option. The free agents they most seriously considered ??? Joel Pineiro, Jon Garland and Jarrod Washburn ??? did not elate them. They never were interested in Derek Lowe. They talked to the Cubs about Carlos Zambrano. But with at least three years and $53.75 million left on Zambrano???s deal, the Yanks wanted Chicago to eat too much of the money to make it work. The Yanks had some curiosity about Cincinnati???s Aaron Harang. But he has had a lot of health concerns recently plus between 2010 base salary, a 2011 buyout on an option and a $500,000 trade kicker, the Yanks would have been obligated to at least $15 million for Harang.
 So this brought them to Vazquez.
Blah, there is talk that they will wait till the next crop of better pitchers are out next year.


*2*. The Yankees are operating, for now, on keeping the payroll below $200 million. So after re-signing Andy Pettitte and obtaining Nick Johnson and Curtis Granderson, the Yanks decided they had enough money to spend significantly on either a left fielder or starting pitcher, but not both.
 They decided that if they had to be vulnerable in one place, they preferred the vulnerability in left field rather than the rotation. They figure the free-agent market might plummet enough that they can get a veteran left fielder at the end of the offseason on the cheap. If not, it is easier to obtain a corner outfielder during the season than a good starting pitcher.


*3*. The Yanks emphasized a starting pitcher because they are concerned about the workload put on CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett and Pettitte in order to win a championship with exclusively a three-man rotation.
 Vazquez raises red flags in other areas, but not in durability. Vazquez has pitched at least 198 innings in every season since 2000, and the only pitcher with more innings this decade than Vazquez???s 2,163 is Livan Hernandez???s 2,201.1.


*4.* The Yankees tried to win with two neophytes (Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy) in the rotation in 2007 and it was a losing experience. The current version of Hughes and Joba Chamberlain is more advanced, but they still did not want to risk a season by putting so much emphasis on still untested starters. With Vazquez as the No. 4 starter behind Sabathia/Burnett/Pettitte, the Yanks ??? at full health ??? only need either Hughes or Chamberlain in the rotation.
 The loser of this battle becomes Mariano Rivera???s prime set-up man. Which is vital in this, as well. Rivera is 40 now and he also was pushed hard to win a championship. So the Yanks want a strong alternative around in case one is needed. In addition, they did not want to spend extra cash on a set-up man.
 Plus, more and more Yankee officials have come to believe Joba???s long-term role is in the pen and as heir apparent to Rivera. So the early betting line should be that Hughes is the No. 5 starter, though the Yanks will certainly not hand the job to anyone and could have a group including Sergio Mitre, Chad Gaudin, Alfredo Aceves and Ivan Nova in contention, too. My darkhorse is Nova, a growing favorite within the Yankee hierarchy.
 And I am probably the last reporter in New York who actually thinks it is possible Chien-Ming Wang could return. That is, as long as Wang accepts a minor league contract with incentives. I do not think it is a strong chance. But I do not think it is impossible.


*5*. If a tryout camp were held tomorrow between recent Red Sox addition John Lackey and Vazquez, it would not be surprising if a majority of scouts favored Vazquez with his superior fastball to go along with his above-average curveball, slider, changeup and command.
 Of course, there will be no tryout camp. There will be actual games. And that is where Lackey has it on Vazquez. Lackey not only has high-end stuff, but also high-end fortitude. There is no doubt he wants the ball in big games and will be unafraid to pitch in this spot.
 The Yanks want to believe Vazquez is ready for this assignment now with the Yankees in the way he was not in 2004. Back then he was brought in with the hopes he would flourish into a young ace. This time around he is being asked to be the No. 4 starter. But my contention would be that the No. 4 starter for the Yankees has the pressure of being an ace just about any place else. At some point it is going to be Vazquez vs. Josh Beckett on Sunday night at Fenway ??? or something like that.
 Also, the Yanks point out that in 2004, Vazquez pitched well enough in the first half (10-5, 3.56) to make the All-Star team before a case of pink eye and shoulder issues curtailed his success.
 The Yanks also want to believe Vazquez is different now. He is not fresh out of Montreal and the NL only. However, as part of his travels he pitched with the White Sox for three years and their manager,* Ozzie Guillen, questioned his toughness late in the 2008 campaign.*
 So far, it is very easy to understand every move the Yanks have made this offseason on a logic level. And I would have made every one of them, as well. However, there was no doubt Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui could take huge at-bats. Will Granderson and Johnson be able to do the same? And Will Vazquez be able to handle the Yankee cauldron, as well?


*6.* So what do the Yanks do in left field now? They insist that they have a real budget and will work diligently to not exceed $200 million. The Yankees calculate contracts by average annual value because that is what they are taxed on. So that means, for example, Kei Igawa does not count toward that payroll because he was removed from the 40-man roster, though he will still be paid $4 million next year. However, there also is a significant amount of money added to cover items such as insurance and other benefits. In this structure, the Yankee payroll currently stands at about $198 million, including educated guesses that on their last two arbitration cases: Mitre and Gaudin.
 Now the Yanks will almost certainly try to trade one if not both Gaudin (due about $2.5 million next year) and Mitre (due about $1.25 million). That would provide a few more dollars to maneuver. But not nearly enough to completely change course and go after Jason Bay or Matt Holliday. They are not under consideration.
 In order for Johnny Damon to now be under consideration, he would probably have to accept a one-year contract in the $5 million to $7 million range (the Bobby Abreu deal from 2009). But even if his market really had fallen that far would he accept the humiliation of returning for those dollars? And if he were willing to would the Yanks want him with the fear that he is so angry with that contract that he would not play to his fullest?
 Mark DeRosa interests the Yanks, but he probably will be priced out, as well. I do think it is possible that the Yanks could try to bring back Xavier Nady on a low base with a lot of incentives as long as his Tommy John repaired elbow tests out OK. His right-center power would be effective in Yankee Stadium.
 For now, though, the Yanks are saying they will go with Brett Gardner with Rule 5 pick Jamie Hoffman as a possible righty-hitting caddy. They do want to emphasize defense and they feel Gardner would be one of the best defensive left fielders in the majors. He also is probably a better center fielder than Granderson, but the Yanks think their left field is so big that they would want Gardner there, especially since he has experience in left, too.
 Also, the Yanks believe that if they do not find a left fielder they can do it during the season if necessary.
 But keep in mind they once said they were going with Bubba Crosby in center before signing Damon, and they were saying they would go with Cabrera and Gardner in center again before obtaining Granderson. So we might see a veteran left fielder before Opening Day if history holds.


*7*. The Yanks like that Vazquez has just one year left on his contract at $11.5 million. They figured Melky was due at least $3 million in arbitration and so they see that as savings toward Vazquez. More important, they project Vazquez as a Type-A free agent. That means the Yanks plan to offer him arbitration after the season and ??? if Vazquez declines ??? they would get a first-round draft pick and a sandwich pick between the first and second rounds.
 They need it because they feel a need to regenerate their system to some extent. They just traded six young players to obtain Granderson and Vazquez, plus used more midway through the 2008 campaign for Nady/Damaso Marte, and have lost a few others in small deals and/or waiver claims; and much of this all has been pitching.
 Yet, the Yanks still feel they have not drained their system of arms. With all the wheeling-dealing, they still kept Hughes and Chamberlain plus Mark Melancon, David Robertson and Aceves. 
 In addition, the Yanks have some pitching in their minors they like a lot, notably Nova for next year. But they also like Zach McAlister, Jeremy Bleich, Manuel Banuelos and Hector Noesi. And they have four darkhorses that they really like: David Phelps and D.J. Mitchell plus two college pitchers from last year???s draft they think can move quickly Adam Warren and Caleb Cotham.
 As for the players the Yanks lost in this trade, there was always a split in the organization if Cabrera was a starter or a really strong fourth outfielder. Michael Dunn was transitioned a few years back from an outfielder to a power lefty reliever. The Yanks love his arm and his ceiling is akin to B.J. Ryan, but there are a lot of command issues. Arodys Vizcaino only pitched at short-season Staten Island last year but was tabbed as the third-best prospect in the Yankee system by Baseball America. The Yanks thought he had the best curveball in their whole system already at age 19. But they had some worries about if a spotty work ethic would enable him to reach his ceiling.


*8.* The Yanks received back Boone Logan, as well. And that is not unimportant. The Yanks had to include Dunn and Phil Coke (Granderson) in recent deals; in fact, Brian Cashman kept Dunn out of the Granderson deal believing he might have to use him for something else such as Vazquez.
 The Yanks really need Damaso Marte???s re-birth in the postseason to hold next year now as the prime lefty in the pen. The Yanks see the tall Logan as only a lefty-lefty, one-batter-type specialist. Last year, he held lefties to a .231 average with no homers in 39 at-bats. He throws his fastball from 90-93 mph with a good slider. However, Logan is one of the rare players who has a fourth option and though he is arbitration eligible, he can still actually be sent to the minors ??? so he will have to win a job in spring.


*9.* Youth matters to the Yankees. As recently as 2008, the Yanks were starting just two players younger than 32 in their everyday lineup: Cabrera and Robinson Cano.
 At this moment ??? with Gardner penciled in for left field -- their projected lineup has just three players 32 or over next season: Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez and Jorge Posada.


*10.* Sometimes the game works funny. After the 2003 season, the Yanks used three young players to obtain Vazquez headlined by Nick Johnson. In Game 7 of the 2004 ALCS, the most memorable blow delivered was a grand slam hit by Johnny Damon off of Vazquez, a blow that pretty much assured Vazquez???s ticket out of town after the season.
 Now Johnson and Vazquez are back as Yankees, and Damon is gone ??? in large part ??? because Johnson was willing to come for cheap to DH and the Yanks needed extra money for a starter, Vazquez.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> Fans dude..fans.



It's hard to put weight into the opinion of your drinking buddies.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> Holliday? Is he a Yankee? I think your mistaken, he didn't sign up with anyone.
> 
> This may be Cashen's suprise, it's Holliday or they bring back Damon.



It hasn't even been 12 hours since the trade went down.

Any deal with Scott Boras is going to take longer than that, whether it be for Damon or Holliday.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> *Hardball's 10 thoughts on the Vazquez trade*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This helps your argument... how?


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> This helps your argument... how?


You can be so stubborn at times.


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> It's hard to put weight into the opinion of your drinking buddies.


I don't drink anymore, I just read a lot.


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> It hasn't even been 12 hours since the trade went down.
> 
> Any deal with Scott Boras is going to take longer than that, whether it be for Damon or Holliday.


You mentioned Holliday in the Yankee lineup. Any reason for that?
I heard he will stay with the Cards.


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

*Yanks reportedly sign catcher Rivera*


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## Doublebase (Dec 22, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> *Yanks reportedly sign catcher Rivera*



Really?  Who cares?


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

Doublebase said:


> Really?  Who cares?



In other news, Alex Rodriguez has two legs.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> You mentioned Holliday in the Yankee lineup. Any reason for that?
> I heard he will stay with the Cards.



The Cards are willing to go the distance with him in terms of years but not at the monetary value Boras is seeking.

The Yankees claim that they won't increase their payroll and I, like Cashman, would choose to go into the regular season with Gardner/Vazquez as opposed to Holliday/Mitre, but I just don't believe for one instant that that is the case.

They will not have Brett Gardner as a corner outfielder next year.  They just won't. 

That leaves likely candidates as Damon, Holliday and Bay - likely, in that order.  I don't see them making a trade for a left fielder, but that seems to be the route they've taken this offseason, knowing that they can acquire good players for nothing but salary via trade, so that can't be ruled out either.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> You can be so stubborn at times.



I'm truly curious where that article states the Yankees got hosed in this deal?

Please, let me know.


----------



## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

_Christopher Reina/RealGM - _ 
The Yankees continue to turn back the clock, this time trading Melky Cabrera, Mike Dunn and prospect Arodys Vizcaino for Javier Vazquez and Boone Logan. 

Vazquez, who was the Game 7 starter in the 2004 ALCS, has a career ERA of 4.19 and is coming off a career best mark of 2.87 with the Braves. He has an excellent strikeout pedigree, with a career K/9 of 8.1 and 9.8 last season. This should make his transition back to the AL East at least a little easier, even if he has a propensity for the fly ball. 

Vazquez has been one of the game’s most durable starters, making no fewer than 32 starts in any single season during the decade we are now saying ‘goodbye’ to. He is a 200+ innings per season pitcher without question. 

Brian Cashman reluctantly dealt Vazquez on Steinbrenner orders in the ill-conceived trade that sent Randy Johnson to the Bronx. Vazquez had made the All-Star Game in that lone season with the Yankees before unraveling in the second half and in the playoffs. 

We can reasonably expect a regression from Vazquez this season; he wouldn’t duplicate his 2.87 ERA again in the NL East, let alone the AL East, but an ERA around 4.00 is almost a given and the Yankees will take that from a number three or four starter. 

Vazquez is also in his walk year, which will pay him $11.5M, making him a much cheaper alternative to John Lackey, who signed with the Red Sox this winter. The Yankees will almost certainly offer him arbitration in the winter and if a deal isn’t done, they can recoup some of what is lost through compensatory picks. 

Losing Cabrera is unfortunate, as he became one of the heart and soul members of the Yankees and it was nice to see the team have a legitimate role player amongst their roster of All-Stars. But after a highly disappointing 2008 in which he had an OPS of .641 (.301 OBP), Cabrera had to beat out Brett Gardner to win the center field job. He did just that, hit for an OPS of .752 and played a respectable, albeit underwhelming defensive center field. 

With the Curtis Granderson trade, however, the Yankees would have moving him to left field, but under any criteria, Cabrera would be a below average corner outfielder at the plate. The strides he made in adapting the Yankees plate approach of patience made a tangible difference in his production, but he is still a long ways away from an .800 or better OPS hitter, which is practically mandatory to wear pinstripes. 

The Yankees can possibly re-sign Johnny Damon now, or even enter the Jason Bay or Matt Holliday market, though they appear handcuffed by their payroll and Gardner could be a one-year stopgap. 

Cabrera’s game has always been better suited for the NL, though he won’t be hitting ninth as he moves up closer to the middle of the lineup. 

Vizcaino was one of the Yankees most highly touted prospects and projects as a potential ace, but he is just 19 and is a long ways away. 

For all of the frequent complaints about the Yankees’ payroll, Vazquez unquestionably represents a sense of frugality on the franchise’s part. The Yankees could have packaged Cabrera, Vizcaino and perhaps Jesus Montero in a deal for Roy Halladay, but the exorbitant price tag of an extension made that almost impossible due to their payroll already hovering at the $200M mark. 

A rotation of CC Sabathia, Roy Halladay, AJ Burnett, Andy Pettitte and either Phil Hughes or Joba Chamberlain would have been the closest thing to a lock to win another World Series as we’ve seen for decades. 

Vazquez bolsters the rotation and is a pitcher any manager will have confidence in sending to the mound, even in a playoff game, but he is certainly not Halladay. 

*Grade for Yankees: B+* 

The Braves had a surplus of starters, so this deal is mostly about finances for them. The Yankees will pay Vazquez’s entire salary, so they will have several million to spend elsewhere. Trading Derek Lowe was not an option due to his salary over several seasons and keeping Vazquez and then letting him walk in return for two draft picks wouldn’t have helped them as much as this trade does. 

Dunn is a 24-year-old southpaw reliever who looks like he will have a productive career if he can ever improve his command and lower his walk rate. 

The real knock on this trade comes from the fact that they signed Lowe to such a monster contract last winter and forced Frank Wren’s hand with this deal. 

*Grade for Braves: C+*


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## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

> The real knock on this trade comes from the fact that they signed Lowe to such a monster contract last winter and forced Frank Wren’s hand with this deal.



Two wrongs don't make a right.


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## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

Doublebase said:


> Really?  Who cares?


Well I guess you don't understand what this thread is about (http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/s...n-chatter-thread-post1943881.html#post1943881)
It's about baseball thingy's, you know trade rumors, who sign with what team. Basically much like gossip but just sports.

I really don't expect you to understand this being that your mind is still trying to figure how you got stuck paying the health benefits of your wife's boyfriend. Psst...make sure he's not on your life insurance.


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## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> I'm truly curious where that article states the Yankees got hosed in this deal?
> 
> Please, let me know.


I doesn't and I didn't say it.
I didn't want to see Melky leave and I really would prefer Sheets or any other pitcher other than Vazquez.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

I took your opposing the deal as exactly that, when now that we're discussing it, it seems that you don't necessarily oppose the trade, just the players that were swapped.

You aren't fond of Vazquez, but I really don't see why.

It's like Cubs fans with Milton Bradley.  He signed a big deal, he didn't live up to it and two months into the season he's being called a "nigger" on a daily basis by thousands of drunk, heckling fans.

Vazquez was supposed to be this perennial all-star and the ace of the staff for years to come.  He never lived up to that.

This time around though, Vazquez is expected to be a one year stop gap as a 3rd or 4th starter who will eat innings and be a lead leaguer in strike outs.

I agree with the RealGM articles note below and it seems like you do as well:

Losing Cabrera is unfortunate, as he became one of the heart and soul members of the Yankees and it was nice to see the team have a legitimate role player amongst their roster of All-Stars.

Look on the bright side though, your team has a better chance of winning the World Series today than it did yesterday.

P.S: It's sickening to me that I believe that... ugh.


----------



## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> I took your opposing the deal as exactly that, when now that we're discussing it, it seems that you don't necessarily oppose the trade, just the players that were swapped.
> 
> You aren't fond of Vazquez, but I really don't see why.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure they will, last year was freaky in that no one was really injured and there were really only two players who had bad slumps if you call it that.
Tex was in a slump at the start, especially against when they were losing against the Bosox. Notice how the yanks started winning when he started hitting against the Bosox...thanks to Arod protecting him.

Swisher wasn't really doing much at the stadium till the very end of the season.

Cano hit but barely did so with runners in scoring position.

Arod wasn't himself but still better than the majority out there.

OK now I am blabbing.


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## min0 lee (Dec 22, 2009)

Tired.

The Boston pitching bothers me a lot and I am sure they will improve.

Tell what though, I no longer fear the Angels, Seattle may have a good team there.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

sdkjsklj


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## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> I'm not sure they will, last year was freaky in that no one was really injured and there were really only two players who had bad slumps if you call it that.
> Tex was in a slump at the start, especially against when they were losing against the Bosox. Notice how the yanks started winning when he started hitting against the Bosox...thanks to Arod protecting him.
> 
> Swisher wasn't really doing much at the stadium till the very end of the season.
> ...



The Yankees were the most fortunate team in all of baseball last season in terms of injuries, less regression than was to be expected for some players and progression from players that were unexpected.

When that happens and you have the most talent/the highest payroll in all of baseball, it makes sense that the Yankees won the series.

I'm not saying the Yankees will for sure win the series because too much can happen between now and next October, but they'll be a forced to be reckoned with all season until the injury bug/their lack of depth kicks in.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 22, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> Tired.
> 
> The Boston pitching bothers me a lot and I am sure they will improve.
> 
> Tell what though, I no longer fear the Angels, Seattle may have a good team there.



The Red Sox pitching staff is better than the Yankees and in my opinion, with the addition of Lackey, the progression of Buchholz and the return of Matsuzaka, it will be _the best in baseball_.

I agree.  It seems like the Red Sox, Yankees and Mariners have all improved, vastly in some cases, while the Angels have lost integral parts of their team which has helped make them successful this decade.

I thought the A's had a chance last year and sure enough, the Angels were right back in the thick of things.  It wouldn't shock me if Brandon Wood finally becomes the player he's supposed to be (Figgins' replacement) and other players step up to make them AL West Champions again, but the 2010 Mariners are the first team in the last couple of years that seem set to challenge them.

I just love what Seattle has done.  It may not be the most entertaining baseball to the casual fan with pitching and defense the strengths of the club, but winning will be the ultimate entertainment if the cards fall their way.


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 29, 2009)

Something happen, god dammit!

*Baboon kicks thread*


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## min0 lee (Dec 29, 2009)

The marriage between the Wrigley fans and Bradly was doomed from the start.

Maybe with friendlier fans and media he would be OK there.


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## min0 lee (Dec 29, 2009)

I Are Baboon said:


> Something happen, god dammit!
> 
> *Baboon kicks thread*


Pretty quiet isn't it, what the hell is taking Bay so long to sign?


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 29, 2009)

I Are Baboon said:


> Something happen, god dammit!
> 
> *Baboon kicks thread*





min0 lee said:


> Pretty quiet isn't it, what the hell is taking Bay so long to sign?



Jason Bay to sign with Mets.

Report: Bay to sign with Mets - Extra Bases - Red Sox blog


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## min0 lee (Dec 29, 2009)

The Mets need a whole lot more moves....what a payroll.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 29, 2009)

Like the Cubs, Omar Minaya and the Mets just don't get it.

Sorry Min0.


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## min0 lee (Dec 29, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> Like the Cubs, Omar Minaya and the Mets just don't get it.
> 
> Sorry Min0.



I hope they didn't give him the 5 years he wanted.

This is Minaya's last year for sure, this team needs an enema.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 29, 2009)

Option for a fifth year, apparently.

They're going to try and sneak some clauses into the contract, but they essentially did what the Cubs did with Bradley.  Bid against themselves looking desperate in the process.

The Red Sox get two picks out of it, so woo-freakin-hoo!


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## min0 lee (Dec 29, 2009)

soxmuscle said:


> Option for a fifth year, apparently.
> 
> They're going to try and sneak some clauses into the contract, but they essentially did what the Cubs did with Bradley.  Bid against themselves looking desperate in the process.
> 
> The Red Sox get two picks out of it, so woo-freakin-hoo!



If the picks are from the Mets farm system you better hope they dump them. 
I think even the Yankees have a better farm system right now, I haven't checked but I wouldn't be surprised.

At least he's not a nut job like Bradly who I knew was going to fail without the help of my friends or the media to influence me.
It was really a no brainer that I called months ahead, damn I am smart.:nerd

:


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## min0 lee (Dec 29, 2009)

I hope their studies are correct, the new stadium has been a killer on the "home team".



> The Bay Watch is over.
> 
> Jason Bay has agreed to a four-year contract worth about $66 million with the Mets, pending the results of a physical exam, a baseball source confirmed to the Daily News.
> 
> ...


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## Shillelagh (Jan 2, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> I hope their studies are correct, the new stadium has been a killer on the "home team".


 
He would have been better off @ Fenway, where his long outs were doubles. 25 HR if he stays healthy with the Mess. He's insane, he should have stayed in Boston.

And these offseasons suck anymore, they drag out into freaking training camp for player signings. If they were smart they would put a time limit on when players could be signed, after that they'd have to wai until May 1 to play...


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## min0 lee (Jan 3, 2010)

Shillelagh said:


> He would have been better off @ Fenway, where his long outs were doubles. 25 HR if he stays healthy with the Mess. He's insane, he should have stayed in Boston.
> 
> And these offseasons suck anymore, they drag out into freaking training camp for player signings. If they were smart they would put a time limit on when players could be signed, after that they'd have to wai until May 1 to play...


I agree, why go to a team that has so many question marks when your already with a team that's dedicated and always competitive.
Both sides lost.


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## Shillelagh (Jan 3, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> I agree, why go to a team that has so many question marks when your already with a team that's dedicated and always competitive.
> Both sides lost.


Although Damon to the Sox to get back at the Yankees for 2 years would be intiguing...


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## min0 lee (Jan 3, 2010)

Shillelagh said:


> Although Damon to the Sox to get back at the Yankees for 2 years would be intiguing...


That would not be a good scenario.


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## I Are Baboon (Jan 5, 2010)

Red Sox agree to deal with Adrian Beltre.

Beltre to sign with Red Sox, sources say - MLB - Yahoo! Sports



The Sox now have Gold Glovers at 1st, 2nd and 3rd.


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## min0 lee (Jan 5, 2010)

I Are Baboon said:


> Red Sox agree to deal with Adrian Beltre.
> 
> Beltre to sign with Red Sox, sources say - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
> 
> ...


Good move, in fact this move may make them the favorites to win again.


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## min0 lee (Jan 5, 2010)

Word has it the Yankees are not going over the budget this year in order to make a sign next years free agents... Prince Fielder, Joe Mauer, Adrian Gonzalez.....Pujols?? and a class A pitcher.


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## min0 lee (Jan 5, 2010)

I bet 1000000 rep points that...

Sox will say Beltre is better than Arod


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## I Are Baboon (Jan 5, 2010)

Adrian Gonzalez is signed through 2011.  

Prince Fielder in Yankee Stadium is a scary though...a left handed hitter that destroys the ball.


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## Triple Threat (Jan 5, 2010)

Fielder would have to DH.  What would NY do with Tex otherwise?


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## soxmuscle (Jan 5, 2010)

The Red Sox are going to have the best defensive team in the league behind the best rotation in the league.

Once again, much of the Red Sox success comes down to how well David Ortiz performs.

MVP prediction?


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## soxmuscle (Jan 5, 2010)

I can't see the Yankees paying another first baseman Teixeira money to play DH.

Not when over the last two offseasons guys like Nick Johnson, Bobby Abreu and Hideki Matsui have signed for peanuts and many productive hitters still remain on the market.

Mauer, certainly.  Crawford, most likely.  Another first baseman?  not so much.


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## min0 lee (Jan 5, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> I can't see the Yankees paying another first baseman Teixeira money to play DH.
> 
> Not when over the last two offseasons guys like Nick Johnson, Bobby Abreu and Hideki Matsui have signed for peanuts and many productive hitters still remain on the market.
> 
> Mauer, certainly.  Crawford, most likely.  Another first baseman?  not so much.


Rumor has it they plan on using him only as a DH. Tex is going to be there at first for a long time.


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## soxmuscle (Jan 5, 2010)

That's what I mean.

Nick Johnson will be playing DH and only DH because, however stellar he is defensively, he can't stay on the field when playing both offense and defense.

Teixeira is why I don't see them throwing top dollar at a first baseman when a cheaper option remains that allows you o improve another facet of your ball club.


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## min0 lee (Jan 5, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> That's what I mean.
> 
> Nick Johnson will be playing DH and only DH because, however stellar he is defensively, he can't stay on the field when playing both offense and defense.
> 
> Teixeira is why I don't see them throwing top dollar at a first baseman when a cheaper option remains that allows you o improve another facet of your ball club.


He's a DL waiting to happen.
I know you like him a lot but he's just OK to me, I and the Yankees would rather have Cecil.
Cheaper?  This is the Yankees you know.

They will try to make a big push for Mauer that's for sure.


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## min0 lee (Jan 5, 2010)

Like you said....maybe at DH he will not get hurt.



> *Nick Johnson???s injury history*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## soxmuscle (Jan 5, 2010)

How can you not like Johnson?

They basically have a better player batting second behind Jeter and in front of the big boppers than they had the last few seasons with Damon.


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## soxmuscle (Jan 5, 2010)

Obviously not in the speed department, but Nick Johnson has always been an on-base specialist.


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## min0 lee (Jan 5, 2010)

Meh....I just think they can do better and next year may be his last, he is only signed for one year. 
I'm not 100% against him but he reminds me of Nady, whom I do like. Who got hurt real quick.

Damon wasn't that bad at all, really.
He adjusted to that short Yankee porch real quick.


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## min0 lee (Jan 5, 2010)

I just want to point out that he replaced Matsui and not Damon. 
Matsui was our DH while Damon was our outfielder.


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## soxmuscle (Jan 5, 2010)

In the order, he'll replace Damon.

Getting on-base 43% of the time will help that line-up.


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## soxmuscle (Jan 5, 2010)

Providence Journal:

The Red Sox have decided Jacoby Ellsbury will play left field, and Mike Cameron will man center for the 2010 season.

When Francona called Ellsbury with the decision, the 26-year-old outfielder was a bit disappointed.

"He was worried that it was a demotion, which it is not," explained Francona. "I kind of insured him of that. I just think we're tying to put guys where we think they can make the biggest impression. Cam was great, for a guy who is 37-years-old and played center field his whole life, he said, 'Hey, I'll play anywhere.' So it was just a decision based on what's best for our team."


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## min0 lee (Jan 5, 2010)

A number 2 hitter who's that slow, it's going to be interesting.
It's interesting everyone forgot how average Cameron was with the Mets, I was really disapointed with his play here.....both sides couldn't wait to part.
It will be interesting to see them both cover the outfield together....they can cover some ground out there.


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## min0 lee (Jan 5, 2010)

* Thrifty Red Sox Finally Land Another Third Baseman *
 
   In what can only be described as another brilliant bargain basement signing, the always-frugal Boston Red Sox signed Adrian Beltre to a one year, $9M contract with a $5M player option for 2011. The deal, which also includes a $1M buyout, comfortably lifts the scrappy small town underdogs over the luxury tax threshold.

Beltre apparently came down a bit from his initial contract demands of 5 years and $65M which was analogous to me applying for a job and asking for the corner office, a secretary and a wet bar. He settled for a temp job in a cubicle with easy access to the water cooler. However, what the deal sacrifices in luxury, it attempts to make up for in flexibility. It offers Beltre the chance to redeem himself coming off a miserable year in which he hit .265/.304/.379 and played in only 111 games, missing significant time due to a... um... well... how do I say this... an injury. 

The Sox are banking on last year being an anomaly and Beltre's defensive abilities being all they are cracked up to be, which is to say pretty damn impressive. His average UZR/150 over the last 4 years has been 12.3, which makes up for the fact that his on-base percentage over that same time period has been .321.


While Beltre supposedly turned down longer deals worth more money from other teams let's wait and see how it turns out before declaring it a "steal" or anything of the sort like I sarcastically did in the first paragraph. Fire Brand of the American League lists his home/road splits over the last three years to show that his production was suppressed by playing in Seattle:*2007: (H) .264/.319/.426 (R) .288/.320/.538
2008: (H) .230/.303/.400 (R) .292/.349/.512
2009: (H) .250/.283/.364 (R) .279/.324/.393*​But do you notice another trend? His slugging percentage has been declining over the past three years regardless of where he was hitting. 


Oh, and there's also the small consideration of Mike Lowell's contract which the Sox will either have to eat or exchange him for a player equally as useless/overpaid. They could hold on to him but given that both he and Beltre are right handed, there's no platoon option. I suppose he could be a fall back DH if Ortiz struggles again, but that's a waste of a roster spot. 


The signing of Beltre certainly makes the Sox better next year, but how many teams can afford to replace a player that was making $12M this coming season (and who should be able to play come opening day) with a guy who is making $9M?

The spendthrift ways of last season have been jettisoned in favor of big budget acquisitions in Boston this year. Apparently the items on the sale rack weren't all they were cracked up to be.


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## min0 lee (Jan 5, 2010)

*Matt Holliday Signs With Cardinals*



 Jon Heyman of Sports Illustrated reports (via Twitter) that if Holliday finishes in the top-10 in MVP voting in 2016, his vesting option would be worth $17MM for 2017.


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## min0 lee (Jan 5, 2010)

*Randy Johnson To Announce Retirement*


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## Baseball Insider (Jan 11, 2010)

nick johnson is good but matsui is 1 mill more


never the less his OBP is can only be topped by mauer or pujols

should be a great fit in the lineup


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## min0 lee (Jan 11, 2010)

Baseball Insider said:


> nick johnson is good but matsui is 1 mill more
> 
> 
> never the less his OBP is can only be topped by mauer or pujols
> ...


Let's hope he is. Let's also hope he stays healthy at least for one year.


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## Baseball Insider (Jan 11, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> Let's hope he is. Let's also hope he stays healthy at least for one year.


being a DH and i talked with my friend it shouldnt be a problem


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## min0 lee (Jan 11, 2010)

Baseball Insider said:


> being a DH and i talked with my friend it shouldnt be a problem


He's had hand injuries and he does have to run the bases.
He can still get hurt.

I believe he's just a one year rental, look for the Yankees to get a heavy hitter at DH next year.


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## Shillelagh (Jan 12, 2010)

I can see the Yankees re-signing Xavier Nady to play left. He'll come cheap and if he doesn't work out they'll go shopping. personally i think Granderson is going to implode in NY. They should have kept Cabrera...


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## min0 lee (Jan 12, 2010)

Shillelagh said:


> I can see the Yankees re-signing Xavier Nady to play left. He'll come cheap and if he doesn't work out they'll go shopping. personally i think Granderson is going to implode in NY. They should have kept Cabrera...


Think so? Why?
He has a good head on his shoulder they say. Maybe he can change his free swinging ways.
It* may* take more than a year to adjust to playing in NY.


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## Shillelagh (Jan 15, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> Think so? Why?
> He has a good head on his shoulder they say. Maybe he can change his free swinging ways.
> It* may* take more than a year to adjust to playing in NY.


 
He'll come cheap after being injured last year, and can handle the atmosphere. The key though may be his salary..


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## min0 lee (May 1, 2010)

So far Vazquez has sucked big time.


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## touseef123 (May 2, 2010)

Its Realy Work


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## min0 lee (May 3, 2010)

touseef123 said:


> Its Realy Work



Yes.


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## Triple Threat (May 3, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> So far Vazquez has sucked big time.



He's an NL pitcher.  Can't handle the pressure of NY and the AL east.


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## min0 lee (May 3, 2010)

Triple Threat said:


> He's an NL pitcher.  Can't handle the pressure of NY and the AL east.



Exactly, if he doesn't win some games the Yankee fans will eat him alive.


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## tucker01 (May 4, 2010)

Talk that MLB is trying to Seize ownership of the Texas Rangers and force a sale to Nolan Ryan and Lawyer from Pitts.


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## I Are Baboon (May 4, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> Exactly, if he doesn't win some games the Yankee fans will eat him alive.



His next start has been pushed back to Monday so he won't be pitching against the Red Sox this weekend.  BOOOOO!!  There goes Boston's chances of winning one game.


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## min0 lee (May 4, 2010)

IainDaniel said:


> Talk that MLB is trying to Seize ownership of the Texas Rangers and force a sale to Nolan Ryan and Lawyer from Pitts.



I was impressed with that team last year, they have a couple of good players.


I Are Baboon said:


> His next start has been pushed back to Monday so he won't be pitching against the Red Sox this weekend.  BOOOOO!!  There goes Boston's chances of winning one game.



I didn't like for Vazquez at all, Melky was a good 4th outfielder..I think a better one than Thames.
Austin is hitting for a higher average than Curtis and nick is hitting .141 with more strikeouts 22 than walks 21.


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## Triple Threat (May 4, 2010)

I Are Baboon said:


> His next start has been pushed back to Monday so he won't be pitching against the Red Sox this weekend.  BOOOOO!!  There goes Boston's chances of winning one game.



Thankfully someone in Yankee management is thinking.  Even better if his next start were somewhere in Triple A.


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## min0 lee (May 11, 2010)

The often injured Nick Johnson will be out for several weeks and Vasquez sucks .....told ya so.


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