# Good food or bad food? Does it matter on a bulk?



## xfile384 (Oct 29, 2008)

I've always been curious about this, but never got a good answer. 

I understand the benefit of eating proper food for nutrition purposes, but for weight lifting and trying to gain weight, what does it matter? For instance, lets say someone eats all crappy food from McDonald's on a bulk, but still consumes 3000 calories a day. Now, lets assume this person ate 3000 calories a day from a good diet. Essential fatty acids, good carbs, a lot of protein, etc...How would the results change? Doesn't your body just see a calorie for calorie? 

I'm not going to eat bad, because i don't like to. But, I'm just curious on how this works for my own knowledge...


----------



## tucker01 (Oct 29, 2008)

proper nutrition allows the body to perform at its optimal levels


----------



## GOtriSports (Oct 29, 2008)

xfile384 said:


> I've always been curious about this, but never got a good answer.
> 
> I understand the benefit of eating proper food for nutrition purposes, but for weight lifting and trying to gain weight, what does it matter? For instance, lets say someone eats all crappy food from McDonald's on a bulk, but still consumes 3000 calories a day. Now, lets assume this person ate 3000 calories a day from a good diet. Essential fatty acids, good carbs, a lot of protein, etc...How would the results change? Doesn't your body just see a calorie for calorie?
> 
> I'm not going to eat bad, because i don't like to. But, I'm just curious on how this works for my own knowledge...



It is true that consuming the right amount of foods puts your body in the best possible state to build muscle. Being on a bulk and trying to get fat are not the same things. Having the right amount of carbs/fats/and proteins are essential to see the gains you want. Otherwise expect to just start gaining weight, not feel all the energy you need working out and when it comes time for you cut you are going to have tripple the work to do!


----------



## xfile384 (Oct 29, 2008)

GOtriSports said:


> It is true that consuming the right amount of foods puts your body in the best possible state to build muscle. Being on a bulk and trying to get fat are not the same things. Having the right amount of carbs/fats/and proteins are essential to see the gains you want. Otherwise expect to just start gaining weight, not feel all the energy you need working out and when it comes time for you cut you are going to have tripple the work to do!



This is a good point. I can understand that eating all the crappy food will not make you feel right for your workouts. But, your saying that eating bad food will put a different kind of weight on? Is this a visual difference? For instance, more abdominal fat? How would bulking and eating properly change where the weight is going, if your daily activities/workouts are the same?


----------



## MCx2 (Oct 29, 2008)

One Double Cheeseburger from McDonalds:








My whole day of eating yesterday:





I'd have to eat 9 Double Cheeseburgers to get the same amount of protein that I got in just 2300 calories of eating. Now my cals are super low right now because I'm cutting but you get the idea. 

9 Double Cheeseburgers would be:
4131 Cals
234g Fat
306g Carbs
234g Protein


Really what it boils down to is there's just not enough "good stuff" in this crap to justify eating it, even if on a bulk.


----------



## xfile384 (Oct 29, 2008)

ReproMan said:


> One Double Cheeseburger from McDonalds:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Good point, but we are talking about bulking. If protein was an issue, this person could merely take some protein powder to fulfill his daily 1lb of protein per body weight...Hence, eating less cheeseburgers. We can add fries with the food too, lol. 

Thanks for all the advice, this is a really good discussion!


----------



## xfile384 (Oct 29, 2008)

ReproMan said:


> Really what it boils down to is there's just not enough "good stuff" in this crap to justify eating it, even if on a bulk.



This is a great point and very true. But, still doesn't answer the appearance aspect and where this weight would go. It seems like it would all just be health and not physical appearance.

Eh, never mind. I'm just being stupid now. I don't think their is an actual answer.


----------



## MCx2 (Oct 29, 2008)

xfile384 said:


> This is a great point and very true. But, still doesn't answer the appearance aspect and where this weight would go. It seems like it would all just be health and not physical appearance.
> 
> Eh, never mind. I'm just being stupid now. I don't think their is an actual answer.



I'll tell you what, try it out for a month and get back to us.


----------



## go4kj (Oct 29, 2008)

xfile384 said:


> I've always been curious about this, but never got a good answer.
> 
> I understand the benefit of eating proper food for nutrition purposes, but for weight lifting and trying to gain weight..




That is good strategy if all you are trying to do is gain weight.  What's your primary goal here- Gain muscle or gain weight?  While on a bulk, most individuals try to gain a significant amount of muscle at the cost of gaining some fat.  Actually for most individuals it will be almost equal amount of muscle and fat gained pound for pound on bulk.  Overdo it and it will be fat>>>>>>muscle


The question you need to ask is what is going to happen once my bulk is over and it's time to cut?  It will be that much harder to strip away all the fat you have accumalated. 

If I had a formula/supplement that assured only lean muscle mass gains without any fat gains, I think I can crack that Billionaire's list......


----------



## xfile384 (Oct 29, 2008)

go4kj said:


> That is good strategy if all you are trying to do is gain weight.  What's your primary goal here- Gain muscle or gain weight?  While on a bulk, most individuals try to gain a significant amount of muscle at the cost of gaining some fat.  Actually for most individuals it will be almost equal amount of muscle and fat gained pound for pound on bulk.  Overdo it and it will be fat>>>>>>muscle
> 
> 
> The question you need to ask is what is going to happen once my bulk is over and it's time to cut?  It will be that much harder to strip away all the fat you have accumalated.
> ...



I understand that. I'm not going to dirty bulk and never said i was. I'm just getting this information for myself. I was just curious about it. I would never try and eat bad everyday and have food high in saturated fat...I eat 1 cup of oatmeal, a bowl of shredded wheat cereal and a banana every morning. Trust me, i'm with you guys on the health aspect of bulking. 

A lot of my friends notice i eat a lot, but correctly. So, i constantly get the person asking: "Why do you eat such good food when your trying to get bigger? Just go to McDonald's..." Since i hear this all the time, i just wanted a quick summary to shut these people up....


----------



## xfile384 (Oct 29, 2008)

So, essentially the person eating high saturated fat, or fried foods would feel more sluggish throughout the day and wouldn't have the proper building blocks to restore torn muscle fibers from prior workouts. Eating correctly gives the "extra kick" your body needs to keep in on track and make your muscles recuperate faster, giving you more of an "alive" feeling on your workout days.

How is that for a quick summary? This is what i have gathered...


----------



## Merkaba (Oct 29, 2008)

You are what you eat.  Period.  So I'm the Cap'n

But seriously


I'm with Repro. Workout on Mickey D's for a month or two and let us know how you feel.  There's alot more at stake than just repairing torn muscle fibers.  Just read some random page about any nutritional function.  Sodium potassium pumps for instance just popped into my head.


----------



## Built (Oct 29, 2008)

I don't see why this is "all or nothing". 

I don't know about the rest of you, but I usually just FEEL better when I eat "real", wholesome food. When I travel, I can't wait to get home and eat a steak, a sweet potato and some broccoli. Real food tastes good to me, it's not torture. 

Why not eat the healthy, nourishing food that we all usually eat anyway - after all, it makes a body feel good, don't it? So if you have the calories to spare, why not slip in the odd cheeseburger? 

As long as you're not loading your body up with plastic (read: trans-fat), your macros are getting hit and you don't go over on your calories, seriously, lighten up, folks, it won't matter. I didn't get into this lifestyle to live like a social hermit ALL the time. Sometimes, you just gotta relax a bit. 

My .02


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 29, 2008)

i think a cheeseburger CAN be PART of a healthy diet
but i dont think the super size me diet is healthy in any situation

anything can work

IN MODERATION

the protein still counts
the unsat fat still counts

unfortunately
the bad shit counts too

you just have to balance it and slip it in where it fits
and it CAN fit


----------



## xfile384 (Oct 29, 2008)

Built said:


> I don't see why this is "all or nothing".
> 
> I don't know about the rest of you, but I usually just FEEL better when I eat "real", wholesome food. When I travel, I can't wait to get home and eat a steak, a sweet potato and some broccoli. Real food tastes good to me, it's not torture.
> 
> ...



I agree 100%. Built has brought a lot to my attention and i wouldn't doubt a word...Just look at her body...That should say it all


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 29, 2008)

to answer the question more directly

eating healthier foods adds to your overall health

being healthy allows you to perform at your prime
being unhealthy and sluggish would mean shitty lifts and ultimately a less appealing appearance

and thats not even stepping into conversation on 
skin health
joint health
digestive health
dental health
body odor
etc.


----------



## Built (Oct 29, 2008)

For what it's worth, from wikipedia:


Soso Whaley, of Kensington, New Hampshire, made her own film about dieting at McDonald's, called _Me and Mickey D._ The film follows Whaley as she spends three 30-day periods on the diet. She dropped from 175 to 139 pounds, eating 2,000 calories per day at McDonald's. The film was funded by the Competitive Enterprise Institute (Whaley holds a C.E.I. fellowship). Whaley wrote, "The first time I did the diet in April 2004, I lost 10 pounds (going from 175 to 165) and lowered my cholesterol from 237 to 197, a drop of 40 points." [10]
 

At Linköping University Swedish scientist Fredrik Nyström repeated the experiment under laboratory conditions, raising the calorie intake by fast food to 6000 kcal per day for seven of his students. Physical exercise was discouraged; participants in the study were even issued free bus passes in the hopes that they would not walk even short distances. The calories also did not have to come exclusively from fast food per se, as long as most of the calories still came in the form of saturated fats. Students who fell short of their intake were given high-calorie shakes at bedtime. The results of the experiment were different than those in Spurlock's film. While the participants gained 5-15% extra weight during the study, and complained of feeling "tired and bloated", no mood swings were observed. "Significant" changes in the participants' livers were observed: "Eleven of the 18 volunteers persistently showed ALT above reference limits indicating liver damage" [1]. However, Nyström noted that these changes were "never even close to dangerous". Nyström ultimately decided that individual variations in metabolism could have a massive effect on a subject's response to such a diet. He also conjectured that Spurlock's apparently extreme reaction to his own experiment might have been due to undiagnosed liver problems, or his partially vegan diet, which rendered his metabolism ill-suited to deal with a diet high in animal protein, cholesterol and saturated fat.[11]
 

In New Jersey, documentary filmmaker Scott Caswell also performed a pro-McDonald's experiment. The results of his diet can be seen in his movie, _Bowling for Morgan_. It can be seen for free at BowlingForMorgan.com. Like Spurlock, Caswell consumed only McDonald's food but generally opted for the healthier choices and did not gorge himself - a fact that Caswell often compares to the overeating done by Spurlock, who was often seen forcing himself to eat when he was not hungry. Over the course of the experiment, he lost 20 pounds and his cholesterol fell sharply. However, Caswell's film depicted him eating many Premium Salads from McDonald's that were not available during the making of _Super Size Me_. Caswell does not reveal the details of his experiment, such as what meals he eats or their nutritional content.
 

San Antonio, Texas resident Deshan Woods went on a 90-day diet in which he lost nearly 14 pounds. He documented the entire experiment on his website LiquidCalories.com. His overall health improved while sticking to a diet mainly in burgers and fries. He stayed away from sugary drinks and stuck to non-caloric beverages instead. His average caloric intake was 2,500 kcal a day, which included 130 grams of fat. His cholesterol went down about 44 points.
 

Professor James Painter, chair of Eastern Illinois University's School of Family and Consumer Sciences, made the documentary _Portion Size Me_. The film follows two graduate students, one a 254-pound male and the other a 108-pound female, as they ate a fast-food diet for a month but in portions appropriate for their size. Both students lost weight and their cholesterol improved by the end of the experiment.[12]
 

Keiji Matsumoto, a civilian in Urayasu, Japan, tried to live with McDonald's food for 30 days. This trial was held twice, in 2004 and 2006, both describing his experiences in blogs, with no changes in weight and health. These experiences are made into a book (ISBN 4-3966-1268-0).
 

Sweden, 2007 - Johan Groundstroem decided to go on a diet consisting exclusively of hamburgers. He was sponsored with free hamburgers from the Swedish fast food chain Max. In 90 days he lost weight steadily from 127.7 kg at the start of the diet to approximately 90 kg. His blog (named Minimize Me), detailing his diet and weight loss, is available in Swedish and English.


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 29, 2008)

these studies do not show us original or resulting LBM




im sure one could consume things like grilled chicken salads, gilled chicken sandwiches

an occasional burger or McRibb
some fries here and there
lowfat milk
yogurt

and various other things from the menu and actually come out with a very sound diet

but the reality is most of the population doesnt care enough to go for the grilled chciken GIVE ME A  DOUBLE QUARTER POUNDER WITH CHEESE DAMNIT
LARGE FRIES AND A DcPEPPER


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 29, 2008)

db qrt with cheese = 550 cal
large fries = 500 cal
large DrP = 260 cal

total 1300 cal


apple pie? or ice cream? 150-250 cal



to us this may seem ridiculous
but to an obese person this may seem like a normal meal



THE KEY IS MODERATION


----------



## Built (Oct 29, 2008)

Ben dur said:


> these studies do not show us original or resulting LBM


No, but they do demonstrate improved health parameters. 


Ben dur said:


> im sure one could consume things like grilled chicken salads, gilled chicken sandwiches
> 
> an occasional burger or McRibb
> some fries here and there
> ...


My point exactly. 



Ben dur said:


> but the reality is most of the population doesnt care enough to go for the grilled chciken GIVE ME A  DOUBLE QUARTER POUNDER WITH CHEESE DAMNIT
> LARGE FRIES AND A DcPEPPER


Pssst... we're not gen pop here.


----------



## Merkaba (Oct 30, 2008)

Anybody that knows me knows I like the junk.  All of it. But i know I don't have to question anyone when I feel like shlt after eating it.  I ate four hotdogs on saturday and one yesterday.  The four on Saturday come from the local BP which has some of the best I've ever eaten.  So fuck it.

Right now I'm eating a cold cut sandwich and about two cups of broccoli and its not gonna be enough.  It's 334 am here.


----------



## Witchblade (Oct 30, 2008)

Any bad food you eat will lower the quality of your overall diet. How much of your health you are willing to sacrifice is up to you. (This rule is not even restricted to diets.)

The 'you can cheat once a week' stuff is a fairy tale. It just means that the effect of one reasonable cheat meal on your weekly diet is small. It's still there, it's just not significant.


----------



## MCx2 (Oct 30, 2008)

^^ I'm a perfect example of eating fast food all the time being completely counterproductive to making gains in the gym. When I finally hit 220 again for the first time since I was 16 I decided that McDonald's wasn't such a good idea anymore considering my lifts were hardly improving as well. I've dropped 10 lbs since and my lifts are actually increasing again, even in a caloric deficit.


----------



## Merkaba (Oct 30, 2008)

My workouts suck when i don't eat good and i can tell it.


----------



## xfile384 (Oct 30, 2008)

Ben dur said:


> these studies do not show us original or resulting LBM
> 
> 
> 
> ...



lol, that was built's point. It's ok to have a cheeseburger when you want one. Just in moderation...These references merely explain that eating Mcdonald's isn't going to make you gain weight and become unhealthy. You can have it every now and then, just don't make it your lifestyle...


----------



## fufu (Oct 30, 2008)

*concerns* -

1.) sodium intake and it's relation to hypertension. junk food tend to contain ridiculous amounts of sodium.

2.) "useless" simple carbohydrate energy that can, along with other factors, lead to diabetes

3.) caloric density - it is easy to down 1500 cals of shit food in a sitting. Eating junk food makes it easy to get cals because they are so calorie dense, but often you will take in far too many. So unless you want to gain needless amounts of fat on a bulk, this is an obvious concern.

4.) processed foods lack nutrition. Just because you are on a bulk doesn't mean your body doesn't require nutrition. You may be getting the appropriate cals, but your body is a system will several metabolic functions that require balanced nutrients in order to function optimally. If you are bulking and concerned with gaining strength and LBM, it is ideal to do it as efficiently as possible. 

5.) Processed foods lack fibre - ever hear of hemorrhoids? Personally, I like to shit comfortably.

those are just some concerns, there are others.

I don't feel like proof reading that and I'm sure there are spelling/grammar errors, but there you have it.


----------



## bigsahm21 (Oct 30, 2008)

A lot of the experts on this board will tell you that at the end of the day, it's cals in vs. cals out.

Personally, though, I don't buy that argument, because for me it simply does not seem to be the case.  In my personal experience, all calories are not made the same.  Regardless of my goals, I stay leaner when I eat a clean diet and stay away from the crap.  It's not just storing extra water from eating high-carb, high sodium stuff, either...my body fat % is slightly affected when I eat a mediocre diet as opposed to a diet that's on point, which I try to do most of the time.

So, take that for what it's worth.  At the end of the day try things out and see what works for you...see what you can get away with.  In addition to feeling/performing better when I eat healthy, I've found that it affects my body composition as well, regardless of whether I'm bulking or cutting.


----------



## Witchblade (Oct 30, 2008)

All calories are in fact (practically) the same. You are mixing up nutrients and energy.


----------



## bigsahm21 (Oct 30, 2008)

Are you referring to macronutrients or micronutrients?

If you're referring to micronutrients you may be right, I don't usually pay too much attention to those.

Macronutrients? I'd beg to differ there.  When I say that I'm leaner when I stay away from crap I don't mean ice cream, fast food, etc...days when I just totally let myself go and eat whatever.  I'm talking about almost identical macronutrient intakes. I could eat the same exact macros in shitty food choices or clean food choices over a period of time and I guarantee you I will see a difference from a body composition stand point.

Honestly, you can disagree with me if you want but it's not going to change my mind.  No matter what any "expert" says or any clinical studies anybody shows me which contradicts this belief, my own personal experience proves otherwise.  I'm not saying this applies to everyone, I beleive other people could try this and see no effect whatsoever, but that's simply not the case for me.


----------



## Built (Oct 30, 2008)

fufu said:


> *concerns* -
> 
> 1.) sodium intake and it's relation to hypertension. junk food tend to contain ridiculous amounts of sodium.


Sodium's cheap, anabolic, and harmless unless you have pre-existing hypertension. For athletes, next to water and oxygen, sodium's the cheapest ergogenic enhancement out there .


fufu said:


> 2.) "useless" simple carbohydrate energy that can, along with other factors, lead to diabetes


Nothing useless about postworkout glucose polymers. The faster, the better. 

Mmm... white rice... 


fufu said:


> 3.) caloric density - it is easy to down 1500 cals of shit food in a sitting. Eating junk food makes it easy to get cals because they are so calorie dense, but often you will take in far too many. So unless you want to gain needless amounts of fat on a bulk, this is an obvious concern.


Only if you eat more calories than you require. There's a limit to how much muscle you can gain on a bulk. Eat too much over your target, you're gonna be a fat-ass, no doubt about it. 

This can happen on "clean" food too. I was once 40% bodyfat eating "clean". 



fufu said:


> 4.) processed foods lack nutrition. Just because you are on a bulk doesn't mean your body doesn't require nutrition. You may be getting the appropriate cals, but your body is a system will several metabolic functions that require balanced nutrients in order to function optimally. If you are bulking and concerned with gaining strength and LBM, it is ideal to do it as efficiently as possible.


I agree, but there's going to be room for discretionary spending!


fufu said:


> 5.) Processed foods lack fibre - ever hear of hemorrhoids? Personally, I like to shit comfortably.


Awesome. Eat some broccoli with your Big Mac. 

Seriously, when I eat something "junky", I almost always go home and knock back some steamed broccoli. Kinda helps it move through... 



bigsahm21 said:


> A lot of the experts on this board will tell you that at the end of the day, it's cals in vs. cals out.
> 
> Personally, though, I don't buy that argument, because for me it simply does not seem to be the case.  In my personal experience, all calories are not made the same.  Regardless of my goals, I stay leaner when I eat a clean diet and stay away from the crap.  It's not just storing extra water from eating high-carb, high sodium stuff, either...my body fat % is slightly affected when I eat a mediocre diet as opposed to a diet that's on point, which I try to do most of the time.
> 
> So, take that for what it's worth.  At the end of the day try things out and see what works for you...see what you can get away with.  In addition to feeling/performing better when I eat healthy, I've found that it affects my body composition as well, regardless of whether I'm bulking or cutting.



It's interesting. I hear this from people, but I've never seen anyone actually test it with DEXAs. 

Ultimately, ya' gotta do what feels right though. I feel like garbage when I eat junk food - but I'm convinced most of that is due to the gluten, at least for me.


----------



## Biggly (Oct 30, 2008)

Built already mentioned it but I'll repeat - trans fats. That crap's no good for you at any level and a lot of it is outright harmful.

I don't recall the full details but read somewhere the structure is different, meaning it is stored in fat cells like normal fat but cannot be burnt by the body so easily, so pretty much stuck there without a severe calorie deficit. I'm not saying that's true, though it makes sense. Either way I'd suggest reading up on transfats before attempting to bulk with it/them.


B.


----------



## Built (Oct 30, 2008)

Trans fats are more like plasticized oil than they are like food. Your body doesn't quite know what to do with 'em.

Mary Enig says it best: The Oiling of America


----------



## Merkaba (Oct 31, 2008)

Are there any popular foods out there now that have Trans fat in it?  I don't ever see it anymore and I eat alot.  Just wondering so I'll know what to look out for.


----------



## Biggly (Oct 31, 2008)

MOST junk food will have a lot of transfats.

Basically anywhere you might expect to see butter if made at home, pastries, shortenings, pie crusts, that kind of thing, plus French fries.. basically avoid anything in a pretty packet 



B.


----------



## Biggly (Oct 31, 2008)

Ah, Mary Enig - that's a very good link.



B.


----------



## DiGiTaL (Oct 31, 2008)

When I eat junk food, or intake some unhealthy food  I can tell the next day looking at myself in the mirror, and start thinking about burning it off on cardio haha.


Also, reading these posts - Built you mention broccoli a lot lol, How good are they compared to other veggies? 

This thread was awesome, now I can tell my dumbbutt friends why Fast Food sucks and be confident about it.


----------



## Built (Oct 31, 2008)

Broccoli, well, I like it, it steams up in about four minutes, it helps your body clear estrogen, it's cheap and has tons of fibre. Yummy with butter and salt.


----------



## MCx2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Like Merkaba said, I just feel like shit when I eat that crap which more than likely leads to a lack of intensity in the gym, which more than likely made me a fatass.


----------



## xfile384 (Oct 31, 2008)

Wow, this thread has come a long way. I'm glad i brought the point up, lol. 

I'm eating about 2900 calories on a bulk right now and I'm gaining weight gradually. Started a 140 and I'm at 146. Sure, most is probably water, but i am gaining. (clean bulk)


----------



## fufu (Oct 31, 2008)

Built said:


> Sodium's cheap, anabolic, and harmless unless you have pre-existing hypertension. For athletes, next to water and oxygen, sodium's the cheapest ergogenic enhancement out there .
> 
> *I believe sodium is highly misunderstood in our culture, but there is a point of moderation. I doubt with most people that not having enough sodium is an issue. Yes, disposition to high blood pressure is one of the biggest concerns when limiting sodium, but besides that pathological factor, consuming excessive sodium can make you feel like a load of bloated shit.*
> 
> ...


----------



## fufu (Oct 31, 2008)

Built said:


> Broccoli, well, I like it, it steams up in about four minutes, it helps your body clear estrogen, it's cheap and has tons of fibre. Yummy with butter and salt.



and melted cheese.


----------



## Biggly (Oct 31, 2008)

I eat broccoli almost every day and while I rate it highly in all other ways I can't say that by itself it's that great for fiber...



B.


----------



## Built (Oct 31, 2008)

Biggly said:


> I eat broccoli almost every day and while I rate it highly in all other ways I can't say that by itself it's that great for fiber...
> 
> 
> 
> B.




Really? At 5 grams of fibre, two cups of chopped up broccoli - basically, about seven or eight ounces - gives me 20% of my daily target for fibre of 25g. Not bad for 60 calories!


----------



## Built (Oct 31, 2008)

fufu said:


> and melted cheese.



Oh, yes!


----------



## Merkaba (Nov 1, 2008)

No trans in Wavy Lays or Deans French Onion Dip!!!  

So I'm free to gorge!


----------



## xfile384 (Nov 1, 2008)

Trans fat isn't really found in much food anymore. Even Mcdonalds has limited trans fat. I think the most trans fat they have in one burger is the double quarter pounder with cheese and that's 2.5 or something...That isn't much, but sure if you eat enough of them it's bad. A basic cheesburger barely has any and i don't think fries have any either. 

Stay away from those shakes though! I heard they have trans fat. So, a quarter pounder meal with a shake wouldn't be a good idea, lol.


----------



## Ben dur (Nov 1, 2008)

2.5 isnt much?


if my diet came from db qrtr lb'ers alone
id have to eat like 5 a day

that would be 12g of trans fats
sure that would be a disgusting diet
but my point is the ratio of cals from trans fats to non trans fats is extremely high

according to all labels and research available to me my diet contains no trans fat

even 2.5 g would be a significant increase


----------



## Ben dur (Nov 1, 2008)

especially considering "normal" peanut butter contains 0
"0"grams of trans but it still gets criticism for having hydrogenated oils thus, TRANS FATS


and those are fractions of a gram and people make a deal about it
(i only eat natty, _love_ the taste!)

this raises the question

how much effect does a gram of trans fats have?
and what would be a healthy level? ---aside from the obvious "none"---


----------



## Ben dur (Nov 1, 2008)

Built said:


> Sodium's cheap, anabolic, and harmless unless you have pre-existing hypertension. For athletes, next to water and oxygen, sodium's the cheapest ergogenic enhancement out there .



im confused

what makes sodium "anabolic"?

i thought that anabolism was muscular growth
not volumization

or am i misunderstanding something?


----------



## Built (Nov 1, 2008)

xfile384 said:


> Trans fat isn't really found in much food anymore. Even Mcdonalds has limited trans fat. I think the most trans fat they have in one burger is the double quarter pounder with cheese and that's 2.5 or something...That isn't much, but sure if you eat enough of them it's bad. A basic cheesburger barely has any and i don't think fries have any either.
> 
> Stay away from those shakes though! I heard they have trans fat. So, a quarter pounder meal with a shake wouldn't be a good idea, lol.



There's a lot of mythology out there regarding fast food. Now to be fair, I rarely eat at McDonalds - but that's largely because a) they use too much wheat and b)I happen to like my own cooking!  

Snopes is a good place to check up on hearsay. Here's what Snopes has to say about McDonald's food: snopes.com: McDonald's Shakes

Okay, well that's cool - at least we know there aren't any feathers or cow eyeballs in the shakes! But how about transfat? McDonald's nutrition information lists half a gram of transfat in their shakes. Something that's important to note is that not all tranfats are bad: conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) is a naturally-occurring transfat that's good for you. The bad ones come from hydrogenated fats, which are found in shortenings and most commercial brands of margarine and peanut butter, as well as many prepared foods such as cookies and cake mixes. 

I checked a few sources online to see how much transfat occurs naturally in milk (the USDA didn't list it for fluid milk). My cursory review of the literature suggests about half a percent of dairy fat comes from the CLA transfat. If anyone has something more specific, please pass it along to me. 

Moving this along, when I searched McDonald's ingredient listings for milkshakes, I couldn't find any hydrogenated fats:
http://www.mcdonalds.ca/pdfs/IngredientFactsEN.pdf
Triple Thick Milkshake??® - Chocolate, Large
*Ingredients:*

*Dairy Mix* Modified milk ingredients, sugar, glucose, soy mono and diglycerides, guar gum, dextrose, artificial vanilla flavour, carrageenan, cellulose gum.
*Triple Thick Milkshake??®* Chocolate Syrup	Glucose-fructose, water, dutch processed cocoa, natural (vegetable source) and artificial flavour, salt, potassium sorbate. MAY CONTAIN SMALL AMOUNTS OF OTHER SHAKE FLAVOURS.

I checked the nutrition information for a 16 ounce Triple Thick Milkshake??® on the USDA nutrient database:
580 calories
99g carb
13g protein
16g fat, of which 0.9g comes from all transfats, including CLA. 

About half a percent of milkfat is transfat from CLA:
Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA) Content of Milk from Cows Offered Diets Rich in Linoleic and Linolenic Acid -- Dhiman et al. 83 (5): 1016 -- Journal of Dairy Science - so, for the sake of comparison, 16 ounces of whole milk according to the USDA and estimating CLA at 0.5% of milkfat:
312 calories
23g carb
16g protein
18g fat, of which about 0.1g is CLA transfat.

As it sits, the biggest nutritional difference I can see between a small triple thick and two cups of whole milk is about a third of a cup of sugar. While I wouldn't exactly call it a health drink, the occasional McDonald's shake certainly doesn't contain anything I'd label "poison". 

My .02 CDN.


----------



## bigsahm21 (Nov 1, 2008)

I think you forgot to list "orgasmic delicousness" in the ingredients list for McD vanilla shakes.


----------



## Witchblade (Nov 1, 2008)

If Snopes can't see the difference between two cups of whole milk (especially if it's organic) and a McDonald's shake, I can't see the difference between the average meathead and Snopes.


----------



## Built (Nov 1, 2008)

Ben dur said:


> im confused
> 
> what makes sodium "anabolic"?
> 
> ...


Read this and see what you think of it: Sodium - Anabolic



Ben dur said:


> 2.5 isnt much?
> 
> 
> if my diet came from db qrtr lb'ers alone
> ...


According to the USDA nutrient database, a double quarter pounder with cheese has about 45g each of protein and fat, and of this fat, about 2.5g are trans.

I looked up cooked ground beef with this much fat, for comparison.
300g of cooked 15% fat beef, broiled in patties contains:
696 calories
0g carb
74g protein
42g fat, of which 2.9g comes from naturally occurring transfats including trans-vaccenic acid (TVA bioconverts to CLA) and the heart-healthy CLA.

Again, I'm not suggesting the "all McDonald's, all the time" diet for heart health or physique gains here, folks, but as far as nutrition is concerned, in a pinch, if you use at least SOME judgement you can do much worse for your body than McDonald's.


----------



## Built (Nov 1, 2008)

bigsahm21 said:


> I think you forgot to list "orgasmic delicousness" in the ingredients list for McD vanilla shakes.



Hee hee hee hee hee!


Witchblade said:


> If Snopes can't see the difference between two cups of whole milk (especially if it's organic) and a McDonald's shake, I can't see the difference between the average meathead and Snopes.



That part wasn't Snopes, that was me - and I wasn't comparing organic milk to a triple-thick shake, I was comparing ordinary whole milk to a triple-thick shake.


----------



## bigsahm21 (Nov 1, 2008)

AND she did see the difference...about 1/3 of a cup of sugar.


----------



## Built (Nov 1, 2008)

bigsahm21 said:


> AND she did see the difference...about 1/3 of a cup of sugar.


Thank you. 

Yep, lots of sugar in a milkshake. SURPRISE!


----------

