# Health Care Bill



## Pirate! (Mar 20, 2010)

Can someone provide a link or pdf to the exact bill that is to be voted on? There is so much misinformation in the media, and I'd like to anylize the actual bill.


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## twarrior (Mar 21, 2010)

Good luck reading this crap.  I have and there are some good points and many many more bad points depending on what type of situation you're currently in.  There' so much govt fat and B.S. in here that doesn't reduce cost of health care one bit. Additionally there is a lot of reference to other pieces of legislature you need to have to decipher much of it.  

It's a shame the government has been vilifying insurance companies in error to tug at the hearts of the American people.  None of us like insurance companies because they can sometimes suck however the people need to put emotions aside and look at the realities and at what this bill is really going to do to this country.  

It's not the insurance company that charges $4K for an MRI, $8K for a CAT scan or in my case $300,000 for a 5 way bypass and 7 days in the hospital (which by the way it was $5,000 per day for the hospital room only!!)  The hospitals charge the exorbitant fees and and cry it's because of all the staff, operating costs and of course the R&D that went into the products your using. ($89.00 for a box of tissues!!??) give me a break.  That's where they need cost controls. Oh well enough of my soap box/opinion.

Here's a couple Pro/Con's from this fiasco.  You'll need to read/interpret the rest on your own. 


Positive: 
A. It expands Medicaid eligibility for low-income individuals and families.
b. It allows a new tax credit for small business employers who provide health care coverage to their employees.

Negative
A. Creation of 16,000 IRS jobs to review your insurance to make sure it meet the governments level of health care and administer you a fine if it doesn't. (This one was on the news this morning) 
B. It imposes a surtax on individuals who do not obtain health care coverage. (So now all the 20 somethings that pay as they go to the doctor will now have to pony up for an insurance plan or pay a $3000-$5000 fine)
C. The new tax credit does not offset the administrative burden of small business owners in providing health care coverage for their employers.  Employers will be able to pay a penalty of $750 per employee to stop funding employer based health plans. (basically forcing all health care to be obtained from the government putting 250,000+ people in the insurance industry out of a job).


This is a link to multiple documents pertaining to health care. Fact Checking the White House | Fix Health Care Policy

Senate bill that was passed.:
http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/patient-protection-affordable-care-act-as-passed.pdf

The House Bill: 
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3962pcs.txt.pdf

Differences between House and Senate bills:
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM136_100104_health_reform_conference.html


Link to Senator Reids massive 2074 page monstrosity.  
http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/patient-protection-affordable-care-act.pdf

ENJOY!!!


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 21, 2010)

it won't be posted until (if) it passes..


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## King Silverback (Mar 21, 2010)

Exactly, Pelosi the C***, even said, we have to hurry and pass it so we can ALL find out whats in it!!! Nothin like gettin crap forced down your throat!!!


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 21, 2010)

Archangel said:


> Exactly, Pelosi the C***, even said, we have to hurry and pass it so we can ALL find out whats in it!!! Nothin like gettin crap forced down your throat!!!


 
YEP most didn't catch that when she said it..we might be fucted


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## King Silverback (Mar 21, 2010)

The Situation said:


> YEP most didn't catch that when she said it..we might be fucted



Oh yeah, we are DEFINATLTY fucted!!!


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## Pirate! (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks, twarrior!



> B. It imposes a surtax on individuals who do not obtain health care coverage. (So now all the 20 somethings that pay as they go to the doctor will now have to pony up for an insurance plan or pay a $3000-$5000 fine)



So this will be handled through income tax?


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## DOMS (Mar 21, 2010)

If this thing passes, he'll have done more fiscal damage to the US than Georgie did by waging two wars.  

I hope someone puts a bullet in that fucker.


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 21, 2010)

Pirate! said:


> Thanks, twarrior!
> 
> 
> 
> So this will be handled through income tax?


 
your looking at everone that works...all incomes will pay high taxes


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## GearsMcGilf (Mar 21, 2010)

He was right when he said he would change politics as we know it.  We now have Chicago style politics in DC.  Looks like they've finally bribed enough members of their own party to get this disaster rammed down our throats.  Too bad some patriot couldn't have assassinated him on the  campaign trail.


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 21, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> He was right when he said he would change politics as we know it. We now have Chicago style politics in DC. Looks like they've finally bribed enough members of their own party to get this disaster rammed down our throats. Too bad some patriot couldn't have assassinated him on the campaign trail.


 

No assassination that would be wrong ...guy ya need some help he was elected shady as it was with acorn.. but he our prez... but the strong arming and shady back door deals will make him aone term prez but the damage will be done.. accorn is chapter 11 now they is broke


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## Pirate! (Mar 21, 2010)

The Situation said:


> your looking at everone that works...all incomes will pay high taxes



I was asking how they would fine people who chose not to buy an insurance policy.


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## PainandGain (Mar 22, 2010)

it passed.


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## Arnold (Mar 22, 2010)

PainandGain said:


> it passed.



those mother fuckers interrupted my TV show last night with that damn news!!!


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## brk_nemesis (Mar 22, 2010)

this pretty much sums it up.....







YouTube Video


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## DaMayor (Mar 22, 2010)

O-Bummer.


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## PainandGain (Mar 22, 2010)

Robert said:


> those mother fuckers interrupted my TV show last night with that damn news!!!





I wonder how long it will be before this is implemented to the point, that I will actually have to go out and purchase insurance?
I haven't had any for 2 years...


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## GearsMcGilf (Mar 22, 2010)

brk_nemesis said:


> this pretty much sums it up.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's just amazing that this broad is House Speaker, 3rd in line to be prez.  This admin is seriously starting to make the Bush admin look like a wet dream.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 22, 2010)

Pro-single-payer doctors: Health bill leaves 23 million uninsured | Physicians for a National Health Program

unbiased ( not left or right) critque by doctors of this reform bill



> Millions of middle-income people will be pressured to buy commercial health insurance policies costing up to 9.5 percent of their income but covering an average of only 70 percent of their medical expenses, potentially leaving them vulnerable to financial ruin if they become seriously ill. Many will find such policies too expensive to afford or, if they do buy them, too expensive to use because of the high co-pays and deductibles.
> Insurance firms will be handed at least $447 billion in taxpayer money to subsidize the purchase of their shoddy products. This money will enhance their financial and political power, and with it their ability to block future reform.
> The bill will drain about $40 billion from Medicare payments to safety-net hospitals, threatening the care of the tens of millions who will remain uninsured.
> People with employer-based coverage will be locked into their plan's limited network of providers, face ever-rising costs and erosion of their health benefits. Many, even most, will eventually face steep taxes on their benefits as the cost of insurance grows.


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## GearsMcGilf (Mar 22, 2010)

If this bill were so good, the Obama admin would've had the votes they needed months before Sunday, without having to bribe their own fellow democrats at the 11th hour.  This is about nothing but helping Obama make good on his biggest campaign promise, by passing some kind of reform, even if it accomplishes none of the things he promised it would.  It's about keeping him from becoming a lame duck.

I'm not for single payer, but even that would make  more sense then this garbage being shoved down our throats.  The only good thing that will probably come out of this is getting some of the crooks out of DC this year and helping Obama to seal his fate as a one termer.


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## IronAddict (Mar 22, 2010)

Funny, you guy's are getting bent out of shape for nothing! Wait til this goes to the Senate/if it passes (which it won't), then you can have reason to bitch.

All a semblence of progress!


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 22, 2010)

Pirate! said:


> I was asking how they would fine people who chose not to buy an insurance policy.


 

the way you file taxes they will be plugged into the system now...running it...a new 20,000 new irs agents they will know


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 22, 2010)

PainandGain said:


> I wonder how long it will be before this is implemented to the point, that I will actually have to go out and purchase insurance?
> I haven't had any for 2 years...


 2014 it will be up and running


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 22, 2010)

IronAddict said:


> Funny, you guy's are getting bent out of shape for nothing! Wait til this goes to the Senate/if it passes (which it won't), then you can have reason to bitch.
> 
> All a semblence of progress!


 
the nuke option needs only 51 votes they have that in the senate


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## IronAddict (Mar 22, 2010)

The Situation said:


> the nuke option needs only 51 votes they have that in the senate



So it seems. I can almost guarantee you this won't pass.

Oh, and very original!


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 22, 2010)

IronAddict said:


> So it seems. I can almost guarantee you this won't pass.
> 
> Oh, and very original!


 

just watch and see they won't let this one die...


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## IronAddict (Mar 22, 2010)

The Situation said:


> just watch and see they won't let this one die...



Of course not.

Like I said, just a semblance.


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 22, 2010)




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## IronAddict (Mar 22, 2010)

The Situation said:


>



Yup, were now in agreement.


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## ALBOB (Mar 22, 2010)

IronAddict said:


> Funny, you guy's are getting bent out of shape for nothing! Wait til this goes to the Senate/if it passes (which it won't), then you can have reason to bitch.
> 
> All a semblence of progress!



It ALREADY passed the Senate.  It was the Senate version the House just passed.  It now goes to Obama's desk for signature which is reported he'll do tomorrow.  

Can we bitch now?


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## IronAddict (Mar 22, 2010)

ALBOB said:


> It ALREADY passed the Senate.  It was the Senate version the House just passed.  It now goes to Obama's desk for signature which is reported he'll do tomorrow.
> 
> Can we bitch now?



Wow.. It paseed!
I have to admitt, I thought it would never pass!

Bitching lamp is now lit!


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## irontime (Mar 22, 2010)

ALBOB said:


> It ALREADY passed the Senate.  It was the Senate version the House just passed.  It now goes to Obama's desk for signature which is reported he'll do tomorrow.
> 
> Can we bitch now?


I think you'll find it to be a good thing pops. There will be some kinks to work out (which I'm sure will piss everyone off) but ultimately the end result will be a great benefit to everybody.


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## DOMS (Mar 22, 2010)

irontime said:


> I think you'll find it to be a good thing pops. There will be some kinks to work out (which I'm sure will piss everyone off) but ultimately the end result will be a great benefit to everybody.



Because (poorly executed) redistribution of wealth solves everything.


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## brk_nemesis (Mar 22, 2010)

Well if i heard correctly,..... there is something in it stating the Amish and "Christian " scientists can opt out of the bill.  But then again I heard it on Savage,... ahaha! Sorry, ... guy cracks me up.

But,..... If  true,..... there would be lawsuits out of the wizwang.

~ Violation of right to religion, equal protection, equal rights, etc......




The again,.. he coulda been jokin'


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## ALBOB (Mar 23, 2010)

irontime said:


> I think you'll find it to be a good thing pops. There will be some kinks to work out (which I'm sure will piss everyone off) but ultimately the end result will be a great benefit to everybody.




No, I won't like it at ALL.  Your system may be very well and good but, this one is an absolute travesty.  Focusing on the $$$ alone, it's going to throw this country into the greatest depression we've ever seen.


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## DaMayor (Mar 23, 2010)

That's okay, South Carolina politicians to the rescue.

Obamacare sparking 10th Amendment rebellion, action in seven states | Washington Examiner


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## ZECH (Mar 23, 2010)

This is going to be one big clusterfuck!


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## Doublebase (Mar 23, 2010)

So does this mean I will not have to pay 215$ every two weeks to cover my family's medical benefits?


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## Dale Mabry (Mar 23, 2010)

I honestly don't see what all the hubbub is about.  Unless you make $250k a year, you will be marginally, if at all, affected.  If that is you, you have every right to be pissed because your tax responsibility is ridiculous.  If it's not, what are your concerns?  The only valid one is the one about the waiting lines for care, but to believe that people who currently cannot afford a pot to piss in are going to run to the Dr. and pay the exorbitant copays that are going to go along with the shitty insurance they are going to get is misguided, if not ignorant.  Even if the insurance itself is subsidized, there is still going to be a significant amount of out of pocket expense to seek care, significant enough to deter people from rushing to the hospital for no reason.


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## Arnold (Mar 23, 2010)

*President Obama signs landmark health  bill into law*

washingtonpost.com


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 23, 2010)

Doublebase said:


> So does this mean I will not have to pay 215$ every two weeks to cover my family's medical benefits?



if it is employer sponsered, they may just pay the 700 dollar plus fine and dump you onto the insurance exchange. This health care reform does not prevent insurance companies from continuing their exorbitant fees on us employers who pay for health insurance.  I guess I could stop paying half a million and let my 45 employees fend for themselves and drop my yearly overhead by 470,000 a year, but I won't do it, but will your's?  And I gaurantee  you that what you find on the insurance exchange won't be as comprehensive as what your employer bargained for with his group insurance. 
If you are an individual policy owner, you just need to compare the benefits vs cost,


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 23, 2010)

Doublebase said:


> So does this mean I will not have to pay 215$ every two weeks to cover my family's medical benefits?


 
u will pay more


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 23, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> if it is employer sponsered, they may just pay the 700 dollar plus fine and dump you onto the insurance exchange. This health care reform does not prevent insurance companies from continuing their exorbitant fees on us employers who pay for health insurance. I guess I could stop paying half a million and let my 45 employees fend for themselves and drop my yearly overhead by 470,000 a year, but I won't do it, but will your's? And I gaurantee you that what you find on the insurance exchange won't be as comprehensive as what your employer bargained for with his group insurance.
> If you are an individual policy owner, you just need to compare the benefits vs cost,


 
Dump them and save that money..


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## maniclion (Mar 23, 2010)

ALBOB said:


> No, I won't like it at ALL.  Your system may be very well and good but, this one is an absolute travesty.  Focusing on the $$$ alone, it's going to throw this country into the greatest depression we've ever seen.


Great Depressions build character....


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 23, 2010)

The Situation said:


> Dump them and save that money..



It's interesting, the two republican partners want to dump providing health insurance for our employees  and keep the 450 thousand as profit sharing among partners but the two democrats ( moi and the other senior partner) don't want to give our employees inferior products ( talk about hypocrisy).  Instead, I have asked my office manager to use this as leverage when we renew our contract with them in one year.

In other words, you can see how this is going to be a bonanza for businesses who want to dump their second highest overhead  and let their employees fend for themselves on the suboptimal insurance exchange market.  This is why I really hate the bill.


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## ALBOB (Mar 23, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> I honestly don't see what all the hubbub is about.  *Unless you make $250k a year, you will be marginally, if at all, affected.  If that is you, you have every right to be pissed because your tax responsibility is ridiculous.*  If it's not, what are your concerns?  The only valid one is the one about the waiting lines for care, but to believe that people who currently cannot afford a pot to piss in are going to run to the Dr. and pay the exorbitant copays that are going to go along with the shitty insurance they are going to get is misguided, if not ignorant.  Even if the insurance itself is subsidized, there is still going to be a significant amount of out of pocket expense to seek care, significant enough to deter people from rushing to the hospital for no reason.



I'm fucking PISSED!!!


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## DOMS (Mar 23, 2010)

So this health care bill is basically stealing from the rich?

Wait a second...did a black man just steal something...?


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 23, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> It's interesting, the two republican partners want to dump providing health insurance for our employees and keep the 450 thousand as profit sharing among partners but the two democrats ( moi and the other senior partner) don't want to give our employees inferior products ( talk about hypocrisy). Instead, I have asked my office manager to use this as leverage when we renew our contract with them in one year.
> 
> In other words, you can see how this is going to be a bonanza for businesses who want to dump their second highest overhead and let their employees fend for themselves on the suboptimal insurance exchange market. This is why I really hate the bill.


 
well i think they are saying fuck it ...keep  the money hell if it the law why not save money.....


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 23, 2010)

maniclion said:


> Great Depressions build character....


 
Amen, my money is in the land of swiss chocolate.. safe from the welll


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 23, 2010)

DOMS said:


> So this health care bill is basically stealing from the rich?
> 
> Wait a second...did a black man just steal something...?


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## GearsMcGilf (Mar 23, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> It's interesting, the two republican partners want to dump providing health insurance for our employees  and keep the 450 thousand as profit sharing among partners but the two democrats ( moi and the other senior partner) don't want to give our employees inferior products ( talk about hypocrisy).  Instead, I have asked my office manager to use this as leverage when we renew our contract with them in one year.



So, the two dem partners do or don't want to dump the employees?  

I say keep it as income for yourselves.  Find somewhere else to spend it so that you can still write it off as a business expense.  Screw the help.  They probably voted for this president anyway.  If they're getting inferior coverage thru this bill, they're only getting what they voted for.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 23, 2010)

the two democrat partners want to keep the superior, more expensive health insurance for our employees. We believe in ethical business practices, don't get me wrong we care about the bottom line, ( in fact he and I generate the most revenue) but we also want a good, non toxic, environment where we garner loyalty and attract solid employees. There is a lot of waste training new employees on a regular basis .Unlike our other collegues we have almost no turnover unless it is firing an unfit employee. 


 I think the two republicans want to split the 450 thousand four ways because they just don't generate the revenue the senior partner and I do and so we have the higher incomes ( it's their fault, they don't bother to code correctly so that they can collect from the insurance, they don't put in the 90 hour weeks we do etc.)

we are in the south, so most of our employees voted for mcain. * I just think it is ironic the two republicans want to abandon paying health insurance for the sake of padding their pockets.  In essence, profitting from the Obama plan.....*

What's even more ironic is that we are both athiests, I wonder where the chrisitisn adage "do unto others..." went?  I prefer the Bahai's creed "treat every single person you deal with as if they were your family".  I consider my employees whom I have know all my 12 years as family.


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## maniclion (Mar 23, 2010)

The Situation said:


> Amen, my money is in the land of swiss chocolate.. safe from the welll


Not any longer, they can issue a warrant, the super secret safe has been cracked.....


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## twarrior (Mar 23, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> He was right when he said he would change politics as we know it.  We now have Chicago style politics in DC.  Looks like they've finally bribed enough members of their own party to get this disaster rammed down our throats.  Too bad some patriot couldn't have assassinated him on the  campaign trail.




You might want to be careful what you say regarding the president.  The Secret Service is investigating a twitter pertaining to your same comments. 

Tweeter Threatening To Kill Obama Investigated By Secret Service « Alan Colmes' Liberaland

You may say you "didn't do anything wrong," but the law???specifically 18 USC Sec. 871: does not agree with you. 

    "Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States... shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."


 Would hate to see anyone on the forum hauled away.  We all know how the govt interprets anything to fit their own goal/benefit.


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## twarrior (Mar 23, 2010)

More info.. Some Q&A's posted by Kaiser Health

Consumers Guide To Health Reform - Kaiser Health News


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## busyLivin (Mar 23, 2010)

twarrior said:


> You might want to be careful what you say regarding the president.  The Secret Service is investigating a twitter pertaining to your same comments.
> 
> Tweeter Threatening To Kill Obama Investigated By Secret Service « Alan Colmes' Liberaland
> 
> ...



Yeah, talking about assassination is really counter productive.  It only makes you look like a fool.

I think Obama is somewhat of an embarrassment.. at least his election was an embarrassment, but I'd never wish harm on him.  I always hated the left's abhorrent disrespect for Bush, so I don't want to join in now.

Public opinion is on the Republican side & if elections were held today the Democrats would be dramatically swept out of power.  We need to stick to the facts & we will be rewarded with Harry Reid's retirement & the whack job Pelosi being kicked from the Speaker position, and most importantly Obama will be a lame duck.  This is less than 8 months away.

If this kind of bullshit takes off public opinion will easily turn to sympathy for Obama & he'll be re-elected.  The Democrats will bury themselves, they don't need any help.


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## GearsMcGilf (Mar 23, 2010)

For the record, I never threatened to harm the president.  I said if only someone else had back on the campaign trail.  B....B..BB..But, I didn't mean it!


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## soxmuscle (Mar 24, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> I honestly don't see what all the hubbub is about.  Unless you make $250k a year, you will be marginally, if at all, affected.  If that is you, you have every right to be pissed because your tax responsibility is ridiculous.  If it's not, what are your concerns?  The only valid one is the one about the waiting lines for care, but to believe that people who currently cannot afford a pot to piss in are going to run to the Dr. and pay the exorbitant copays that are going to go along with the shitty insurance they are going to get is misguided, if not ignorant.  Even if the insurance itself is subsidized, there is still going to be a significant amount of out of pocket expense to seek care, significant enough to deter people from rushing to the hospital for no reason.



What do people making $250k-plus have to do that people making less than that don't have to do?

And should this have any effect on what I want to do with my life?  For instance, should I give up hopes of being a doctor and try to find a career that falls in that $175k to $225k salary so I can just miss being considered rich by this bill' standards?


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 24, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> What do people making $250k-plus have to do that people making less than that don't have to do?
> 
> And should this have any effect on what I want to do with my life?  For instance, should I give up hopes of being a doctor and try to find a career that falls in that $175k to $225k salary so I can just miss being considered rich by this bill' standards?



honestly, I make 300 plus ( have commercial property i rent to docs) and this extra tax won't hurt me since I live on half of what i make. ( there is a chinese saying, happiness is living well beneath your means).  The numskulls with huge Mc Mansions and luxury cars that demand mortgage size payments will suffer more than I. ( I drive a paid for honda civic and my husband has two trucks, one purcased for cash at an auction for 2000 and a silverado that is completely paid for).  ( Of course I have 23 thousand dollars worth of bikes and a 25K home gym , my husband is a body builder and posts occassionaly on this site but that is my only luxury.....)


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## DaMayor (Mar 24, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> *honestly, I make 300 plus *




Ugh, said the small business owner who might have made 300....dollars...in the past two years.......so, could you write me a prescription for Prozac now? 

Honestly, all of this talk about Depression(s) and/or economic collapse really doesn't effect me. I've operated a non-profit for years, lol. Owning a small business these days is the equivalent of being homeless and living in a box...my box just happens to have a cash register and an open sign.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 24, 2010)

my next door neighbor just purchased an $85,000 dollar mercedes but bemoans the fact that she can't afford to pay for private school for her kids........talk about f'd up priorities.


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## ZECH (Mar 24, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> my next door neighbor just purchased an $85,000 dollar mercedes but bemoans the fact that she can't afford to pay for private school for her kids........talk about f'd up priorities.



LOL, dont you just love people like that?


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## ZECH (Mar 24, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> ( Of course I have 23 thousand dollars worth of bikes and a 25K home gym , my husband is a body builder and posts occassionaly on this site but that is my only luxury.....)



Hey, you gotta have your priorities straight, right?
I did not know that. What is his handle here?


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## ZECH (Mar 24, 2010)

On a side note, I agree most businesses will probably drop health insurance and let employees fend for themselves. I really cant blame them because for most it is the bottom line that matters and for some this could break them. It is also true what BAW says, that good benefits helps retain good employees. Over the next 5 years, you will probably see employees struggle to get with good companies that will provide good health insurance. That will leave many employers looking for whatever they can find to fill job openings.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 24, 2010)

dg806 said:


> Hey, you gotta have your priorities straight, right?
> I did not know that. What is his handle here?



Meatheadsam, his is a card toting NRA, die hard republican, southern baptist married to an athiest, feminist liberal.  We have a very happy marriage because we respect each others intelligence and beliefs.


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## ZECH (Mar 24, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Meatheadsam, his is a card toting NRA, die hard republican, southern baptist married to an athiest, feminist liberal.  We have a very happy marriage because we respect each others intelligence and beliefs.



That is very interesting. Sounds like a great guy to me. Does he hunt?


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 24, 2010)

dg806 said:


> That is very interesting. Sounds like a great guy to me. Does he hunt?



of course, deer, when our daughter is old enough he is going to start taking her hunting and learn to use guns.


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## busyLivin (Mar 24, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Meatheadsam, his is a card toting NRA, die hard republican, southern baptist married to an athiest, feminist liberal.  We have a very happy marriage because we respect each others intelligence and beliefs.



wow, that is really interesting.  I'm not built that way. If I ever marry she's got to think like me


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## ALBOB (Mar 24, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> honestly, I make 300 plus ( have commercial property i rent to docs) and this extra tax won't hurt me since I live on half of what i make. ( there is a chinese saying, happiness is living well beneath your means).  The numskulls with huge Mc Mansions and luxury cars that demand mortgage size payments will suffer more than I. ( I drive a paid for honda civic and my husband has two trucks, one purcased for cash at an auction for 2000 and a silverado that is completely paid for).  ( Of course I have 23 thousand dollars worth of bikes and a 25K home gym , my husband is a body builder and posts occassionaly on this site but that is my only luxury.....)



But just for the record:  Because this isn't going to hurt YOU, doesn't make it right, right? 

My houshold income is close to yours.  But that's because I spent 23 years in the Air Force and am now drawing that retirement.  While I was in I also worked a part time job.  My wife went to school and also worked a job.  We sacrificed, scrimped, saved and did everything we could so that after I retired from the A.F. we could start enjoying the things we weren't able to afford while I was in.  Now that I'm out, we both have very good jobs and we're in the position we worked for.  But, this bunch of assholes comes along and says, "Thanks for all your hard work and sacrifice.  We're going to take your hard earned $$$ from you and give it to these other shit eating assholes who WE think deserve it more."  All because we make more than some arbitrary figure they pulled out of thier asses.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 24, 2010)

ALBOB said:


> But just for the record:  Because this isn't going to hurt YOU, doesn't make it right, right?
> 
> My houshold income is close to yours.  But that's because I spent 23 years in the Air Force and am now drawing that retirement.  While I was in I also worked a part time job.  My wife went to school and also worked a job.  We sacrificed, scrimped, saved and did everything we could so that after I retired from the A.F. we could start enjoying the things we weren't able to afford while I was in.  Now that I'm out, we both have very good jobs and we're in the position we worked for.  But, this bunch of assholes comes along and says, "Thanks for all your hard work and sacrifice.  We're going to take your hard earned $$$ from you and give it to these other shit eating assholes who WE think deserve it more."  All because we make more than some arbitrary figure they pulled out of thier asses.



No, I hated this bill but it won't affect me much at all come tax time ,that is all. Now my partners and my neighbors who live quite well.... , a different story.    I am a member of pnhp who also hated the bill.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 24, 2010)

busyLivin said:


> wow, that is really interesting.  I'm not built that way. If I ever marry she's got to think like me



It can be very boring when the two of you agree on everything, but that is my opinion


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## Dale Mabry (Mar 24, 2010)

ALBOB said:


> But just for the record:  Because this isn't going to hurt YOU, doesn't make it right, right?
> 
> My houshold income is close to yours.  But that's because I spent 23 years in the Air Force and am now drawing that retirement.  While I was in I also worked a part time job.  My wife went to school and also worked a job.  We sacrificed, scrimped, saved and did everything we could so that after I retired from the A.F. we could start enjoying the things we weren't able to afford while I was in.  Now that I'm out, we both have very good jobs and we're in the position we worked for.  But, this bunch of assholes comes along and says, "Thanks for all your hard work and sacrifice.  We're going to take your hard earned $$$ from you and give it to these other shit eating assholes who WE think deserve it more."  All because we make more than some arbitrary figure they pulled out of thier asses.



Now this is what I don't get.  90% of your tax dollars is probably going to some form of gov't waste, but the 1 cent of every dollar that goes to this program is significantly impacting your way of life?  I get that you don't want to pay for it, but I don't want 50 cents of every tax dollar that comes from me to go to the military.  Honestly, I think we could get by with 30 cents out of every dollar, or 40.  That is an arbitrary figure, but you get the point.  The money our gov't wastes is atrocious.  I have a friend who was active duty for 3 years prior to 9/11, he averaged about 100 days of work a year but got paid a full years salary for 3 years until the war broke out and he actually had to work a full working week.  Look at Palin, when she was gov of Alaska she was flying her kids around the country on the Alaskan taxpayers dollar to events they had no business going to.  Sure it sounds small, but if all 50 governors, 100 senators, and 435 congressmen do this in as many capacities as they are able to do it, it adds up.  This doesn't even account for pork-laden bills they pass every year.  IMO, getting you riled up about handouts keeps the heat off of them.  Stop worrying about the crumbs they throw the peons and hold your representatives, regardless of party, responsible for their actions as it pertains to how they spend your tax dollars.  This is one of the primary issues with the 2 party system that is ruining this country, people only hold politicians from the other party responsible for their actions as it pertains to legislature that they don't agree with, but people from their own party can do no wrong.  If you were looking to invest your money in a company that wanted to provide healthcare to employees, you would probably see this as a positive, but if the executives at the company wanted to fly their family from coast to coast on the company dime for non-company business, you would look elsewhere.  How are the people running this country not held to the same standard?


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## Arnold (Mar 24, 2010)

good post Dale.


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## Big Smoothy (Mar 24, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> honestly, I make 300 plus ( have commercial property i rent to docs) and this extra tax won't hurt me since I live on half of what i make. ( there is a chinese saying, happiness is living well beneath your means).  The numskulls with huge Mc Mansions and luxury cars that demand mortgage size payments will suffer more than I. ( I drive a paid for honda civic and my husband has two trucks, one purcased for cash at an auction for 2000 and a silverado that is completely paid for)......



Way to go, Bandaidwoman.

I've always been curious about why Americans (of many different income levels) choose to go into massive amounts of debt for house and cars, etc.

Those with high debts now, are falling off of cliffs.  

This slowdown in wiping them out.


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## Big Smoothy (Mar 24, 2010)

ALBOB said:


> It ALREADY passed the Senate.  It was the Senate version the House just passed.  It now goes to Obama's desk for signature which is reported he'll do tomorrow.
> 
> Can we bitch now?



Albob, 

excuse my ignorance.

I thought a bill ALWAYS went to the House first, and then had to go to the Senate.

Why is this different?


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## ALBOB (Mar 24, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Now this is what I don't get.  90% of your tax dollars is probably going to some form of gov't waste, but the 1 cent of every dollar that goes to this program is significantly impacting your way of life?  I get that you don't want to pay for it, but I don't want 50 cents of every tax dollar that comes from me to go to the military.  Honestly, I think we could get by with 30 cents out of every dollar, or 40.  That is an arbitrary figure, but you get the point.  The money our gov't wastes is atrocious.  I have a friend who was active duty for 3 years prior to 9/11, he averaged about 100 days of work a year but got paid a full years salary for 3 years until the war broke out and he actually had to work a full working week.  Look at Palin, when she was gov of Alaska she was flying her kids around the country on the Alaskan taxpayers dollar to events they had no business going to.  Sure it sounds small, but if all 50 governors, 100 senators, and 435 congressmen do this in as many capacities as they are able to do it, it adds up.  This doesn't even account for pork-laden bills they pass every year.  IMO, getting you riled up about handouts keeps the heat off of them.  Stop worrying about the crumbs they throw the peons and hold your representatives, regardless of party, responsible for their actions as it pertains to how they spend your tax dollars.  This is one of the primary issues with the 2 party system that is ruining this country, people only hold politicians from the other party responsible for their actions as it pertains to legislature that they don't agree with, but people from their own party can do no wrong.  If you were looking to invest your money in a company that wanted to provide healthcare to employees, you would probably see this as a positive, but if the executives at the company wanted to fly their family from coast to coast on the company dime for non-company business, you would look elsewhere.  How are the people running this country not held to the same standard?




This WOULD be a great post if it weren't based on a faulty assumption.  What on Earth makes you think I'm not rip roaring mad at ALL the government waste there is?  This piece of shit law is merely the latest in a looooong list of travesties foisted upon us by our friendly neighborhood gubmint.  And no, I'm NOT a blind follower of ANY party.  Yes, I'm a registered Republican but, I was right there screaming with everybody else when the last Commander in Checkbook was spending our grandchildren's money like a drunken sailor.  I disagree that the two party SYSTEM is flawed.  But I do believe the two current parties are flawed.  I'm working to take back my party so that they WILL be held to the same standard you mentioned.


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## ALBOB (Mar 24, 2010)

Big Smoothy said:


> Albob,
> 
> excuse my ignorance.
> 
> ...



You tell me.  The Senate got thier 60 vote super majority, then it went to the House and they schemed, lied, threatened and bribed to get thier 219 and then Bam Bam signed it.  Beats the Hell out of me how it happened.  Now it's back in the Senate to be "fixed" and the Repubs are still saying they've got a chance to derail it.  Huh?


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## Dale Mabry (Mar 25, 2010)

ALBOB said:


> This WOULD be a great post if it weren't based on a faulty assumption.  What on Earth makes you think I'm not rip roaring mad at ALL the government waste there is?  This piece of shit law is merely the latest in a looooong list of travesties foisted upon us by our friendly neighborhood gubmint.  And no, I'm NOT a blind follower of ANY party.  Yes, I'm a registered Republican but, I was right there screaming with everybody else when the last Commander in Checkbook was spending our grandchildren's money like a drunken sailor.  I disagree that the two party SYSTEM is flawed.  But I do believe the two current parties are flawed.  I'm working to take back my party so that they WILL be held to the same standard you mentioned.



I just want to state at the beginning that this is directed to the party followers as a whole, not just our ancient friend here.  Let's look at some numbers...

Cost of Iraq war-$975 billion over 7 years and rising
Benefit to US Taxpayer-Zero

Cost of Health Care-Projected to be $940 Billion over 10 years
Benefit to US Taxpayer-At least 1

How many people on the right have you heard complain about the cost of healthcare since it's inception 4 days ago?

Now, how many people on the right have you heard complain about the Iraq war since it started 7 years ago?

I think my point is pretty clear, but I'll elaborate...If you have complained about healthcare but not the Iraq War, or the ratio of your outrage is any worse than 1:1, it is obvious party loyalty is more important to you than what is best for this country.  

I agree that the bill is flawed, and it is unjust that the rich are taxed any more than anyone else, but come on, any person with a grade school education can see that the outrage is misplaced.


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## ALBOB (Mar 25, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> I just want to state at the beginning that this is directed to the party followers as a whole, not just our ancient friend here.  Let's look at some numbers...
> 
> Cost of Iraq war-$975 billion over 7 years and rising
> Benefit to US Taxpayer-Zero
> ...




First and foremost I agree that they are both gigantic clusterfucks.  No argument there.

Where I will disagree with you is when you try to pass off your opinion as fact.  To say the Iraq war has been a total waste with zero benefit to the U.S. is opinion, not fact.  I'll go so far as to say it hasn't been worth the amount of $$$ spent but, I don't think it was a total waste.  Also, the cost of the health bill is still up for discussion.  Depending on which economic "expert" you ask, the cost ranges from $940 Billion to almost $2 Trillion.  Is it worth it?  Only time will tell.  Lastly, to say agreeing with one and disagreeing with the other is pure party loyalty is absurd.  There are any number of reasons a person could agree with one and not the other.  Myself for example, my opinions are based on my beliefs of right and wrong.  Party affiliation has NOTHING to do with those beliefs.  As a matter of fact, it's the other way around, my beliefs are what steer me towards one party over the other.


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## DOMS (Mar 25, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> I just want to state at the beginning that this is directed to the party followers as a whole, not just our ancient friend here.  Let's look at some numbers...
> 
> Cost of Iraq war-$975 billion over 7 years and rising
> Benefit to US Taxpayer-Zero
> ...



Spending money that we don't have is alright because some other idiot spent money we don't have.  They is _*not*_ how you balance a budget.

Also, there are costs beyond the just the dollars spent.  Take the War in Iraq.  That has cost over 3,000 American lives.  The health care bill, which has no provision for denying illegal aliens access to the system, will cause a deluge of Mexicans into America, and it's clear that such a deluge has country-wide _negative_ effects.


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## ALBOB (Mar 25, 2010)

DOMS said:


> The health care bill, which has no provision for denying illegal aliens access to the system, will cause a deluge of Mexicans into America, and it's clear that such a deluge has country-wide _negative_ effects.



Holy SHIT!  DOMS, you're a genius.  You finally found something GOOD about the Death Panels.  Now we have a way to take care of that damn immigration problem.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 25, 2010)

Well right now I am treating illegal aliens for free in the hospital, 70% of my hospital billable services have been unpaid this year.  A small majority is due to the uninsured ( both illegal and legal) but a majority is due to "underinsured" , people who have high deductibles, with this economy the last thing they are going to pay is the doctor who spent 2 hours in the ICU with them at midnight saving their asses, they need to use the 800 dollars to pay their mortgage.  At least the percentage of uninsured will change but the underinsured will not ( the insurance exchange will provide skimpy, high deductibles plans to most , trust me).. They are grateful for my services, but not enough to compromise their car or house payments, and honestly, I can't blame them.  I'd like to see another profession provide 70% services for free and still be liable as much as we hospitalists are. ( This is why many doctors are refusing to be on call at the hospital anymore leaving the few of us that do, holding the bag)

But let me tell you something, the hispanics are very contrite and they try to pay their bills ( maybe only five dollars a week) but they seem to make the effort.  Therefore, I don't send as many of them collections ( maybe they figure I will report them if I send collection agencies after them , who knows.)  It's amazing how many of the american uninsured tell my office manager to go to hell.  She has no problems sending their accounts to collections.


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## DOMS (Mar 25, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Well right now I am treating illegal aliens for free in the hospital, 70% of my hospital billable services have been unpaid this year.  A small majority is due to the uninsured ( both illegal and legal) but a majority is due to "underinsured" , people who have high deductibles, with this economy the last thing they are going to pay is the doctor who spent 2 hours in the ICU with them at midnight saving their asses, they need to use the 800 dollars to pay their mortgage.  At least the percentage of uninsured will change but the underinsured will not ( the insurance exchange will provide skimpy, high deductibles plans to most , trust me).. They are grateful for my services, but not enough to compromise their car or house payments, and honestly, I can't blame them.  I'd like to see another profession provide 70% services for free and still be liable as much as we hospitalists are. ( This is why many doctors are refusing to be on call at the hospital anymore leaving the few of us that do, holding the bag)
> 
> But let me tell you something, the hispanics are very contrite and they try to pay their bills ( maybe only five dollars a week) but they seem to make the effort.  Therefore, I don't send as many of them collections ( maybe they figure I will report them if I send collection agencies after them , who knows.)  It's amazing how many of the american uninsured tell my office manager to go to hell.  She has no problems sending their accounts to collections.




_Of course..._

They're not white or American, so they're nice...and helpful...and only do good things...and bring unicorns with them.

Fuck that.  I've seen with my own eyes what they do to American civilization.  I've seen it happen in three states.

Your Chinese, so you have a vested interest in believing that non-Americans aren't bad, to the point of defending them all, but your wanting to believe doesn't trump reality.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 25, 2010)

not defending them just telling the reality that they at least try to show a concerted effort to pay me and not take my sweat and labor for granted like many uninsured. I'm sure its to play nice so I don't report them although they don't realize doctors are not law enforcement personell, we just want to take care of you and hope you don't die and sue us. 


Honestly the worst are the medicaid patients, they feel paying their two dollar copay is way too much to see a good doctor but drop 5 dollars for a pack of cigarettes.  My office manager is ruthless, she takes their pack of cigarettes away as copayment if they don;t have the decency to pay their two dollar copays, You would be amazed at how many people cough it up.  The two dollars means nothing to me but it's the principle of the thing, she is telling them not to take us for granted ( especially since many docs won't even see medicaid patients.)


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## Dale Mabry (Mar 25, 2010)

ALBOB said:


> First and foremost I agree that they are both gigantic clusterfucks.  No argument there.
> 
> Where I will disagree with you is when you try to pass off your opinion as fact.  To say the Iraq war has been a total waste with zero benefit to the U.S. is opinion, not fact.  I'll go so far as to say it hasn't been worth the amount of $$$ spent but, I don't think it was a total waste.  Also, the cost of the health bill is still up for discussion.  Depending on which economic "expert" you ask, the cost ranges from $940 Billion to almost $2 Trillion.  Is it worth it?  Only time will tell.  Lastly, to say agreeing with one and disagreeing with the other is pure party loyalty is absurd.  There are any number of reasons a person could agree with one and not the other.  Myself for example, my opinions are based on my beliefs of right and wrong.  Party affiliation has NOTHING to do with those beliefs.  As a matter of fact, it's the other way around, my beliefs are what steer me towards one party over the other.



Name me one Direct benefit to the American taxpayer.


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## ALBOB (Mar 25, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Name me one Direct benefit to the American taxpayer.



Nope, not going down that road.  Been there, done that, it's a waste of time.  You have your opinion, I have mine and neither one of us is going to change the other's.  Just accept the fact that you and I are different people with different experiences and therefore, we form different opinions on things.  Deal?


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## Arnold (Mar 25, 2010)

ALBOB said:


> Nope, not going down that road.  Been there, done that, it's a waste of time.  You have your opinion, I have mine and neither one of us is going to change the other's.  Just accept the fact that you and I are different people with different experiences and therefore, we form different opinions on things.  Deal?



you cannot name one benefit because there are none, just the bullshit lies that the war is securing the homeland and eradicating terrorism, both are false.


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## Big Smoothy (Mar 25, 2010)

DOMS said:


> The health care bill, which has no provision for denying illegal aliens access to the system, will cause a deluge of Mexicans into America, and it's clear that such a deluge has country-wide _negative_ effects.



DOMS,

I assume you are correct in this, about illegals having a right to care under this bill.

But I must ask is this a fact?

I need clarification.  If true, this is one more reason why this is bad.

Also, if Illegals are "denied" under the program, they probably will find a way or loophole, like in the British NI (national insurance) system.

The British NI system was set up to exclude illegals, but they are in it. 

Once established, these sytems have loopholes, are changed, and adapt.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 25, 2010)

Illegal immigrants are already eligible for emergency care through the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, signed by President Reagan in 1986. This emergency care is often paid for by Emergency Medicaid, private insurance if the patients have it, out-of-pocket, or it's written off as bad debt or charity care by the hospital.

I think the reform bill can tax an illegal if they don't purchase insurance yet  they can't purchase  through the insurance exchange plans without proof of legal status , however, the reform bill may expand medicaid so that it includes illegals....in the end it will probably be a wash. We already pay for them anyway since EMTLA was shoved down hospital's throats.   I may be wrong but that was the gist I got.


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## diablomex (Mar 25, 2010)

A lot of people are just saying the lamest things.You guys act like this is the end all.whatever you believe about the bill. Alot of the taxes and  mandates dont hit for a couple of years. Is the bill perfect,no.Instead of bitching and complaining,do something about it...what i mean is,there is still time to make this bill better.it does have  a lot of goodies for people starting this year. If people as a nation ,stand up and work on their congressman or senator.we can make it better.And about the illegals,lame again.When americans start going through a little pain,they ALWAYS blame the illegals.Put down your violin,and handle your bussiness.the illegals Have been going back for a couple of years now.As soon as they seen the work going,they went too.Even the ones that have been in the U.S. a long time.When people cry and talk stuff,make sure its the right stuff.Do some research.Just like some people in these forums tell others.and oh yeah,i haven't heard anyone say it,but the house did past the antitrust exemption.If it passes the senate that would help the bill to be a little bit better.But i haven't heard anyone talk about that.Not on these forums or the media.How about some people put some pressure on their reps,to pass that.Or if people care about financial reform,how about putting some pressure on your reps to make it better and pass it.Unless you want future bailouts on the banks and wallstreet.All I'm saying whether your left or right or in the middle,we got  a lot of work to do.If you want something to be better,you got to do something about it. I personally think campaign reform, and shortning their terms ,would make them do their  jobs.Just my 2 cents.


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## Dale Mabry (Mar 25, 2010)

ALBOB said:


> Nope, not going down that road.  Been there, done that, it's a waste of time.  You have your opinion, I have mine and neither one of us is going to change the other's.  Just accept the fact that you and I are different people with different experiences and therefore, we form different opinions on things.  Deal?



I don't think I can because I imagine you and I agree on about 95% of the same ideologies, but I can call a spade a spade.    I don't like this bill either, it doesn't affect me in any way, but this has been a problem since Clinton and the Republicans didn't do anything when they had control, they ignored it and look where we are.  Now, we have a shitty healthcare bill that isn't paid for and the burden is going to be pushed on to the wrong people (I.e.-You) instead of the individual.  I am not saying the bill is shit because it covers illegals, slackers, or abortions...those people are already taken care of, this bill doesn't provide provisions for them, it just allows them to do what they are already doing.  The bill is shit because it's not paid for and everyone is considered equal.  In this situation, that's not right.

This last part is a general gunshot to this whole ordeal.  We are the land of the free.  In that, you have the right to do to yourself what you wish.  Do you want to smoke, go ahead, it's you're right.  Feel like eating yourself in to a fat piece of shit with diabetes?  Fine by me.  The problem is, in 10 years when you need lung cancer treatment, or diabetes medicine...the healthy people are going to pay.  In 5 years or whatever it is when people are going to be forced in to buying health insurance, all of the people who argue to get their liberties to do whatever they want to their bodies are going to be a burden on me.  I don't think people with pre-existing conditions that are no fault of their own should be denied coverage, but people who willingly destroy their bodies should be paying more than me.  Fat people should pay more, smokers should pay more, people who sit on their asses all day should pay more.  Within that, I love my beer so I should pay more than a non-drinker.  This bill is shit because there was no forethought in it, and it is not paid for.  One of the primary drivers of public health is personal accountability, and this doesn't even consider that.  Sure, the HI industry does As for it being paid for...Some dude on Fox News brought up a fantastic point...In 4 years when a significant portion of the Congress and Senate are not the same shlubs who are in now, they are going to repeal the tax increase that is supposed to happen on their watch.  But, that's just the way Washington works, and with that, I can agree this bill is a piece of shit that is more symbolic than anything.


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## GearsMcGilf (Mar 25, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> I just want to state at the beginning that this is directed to the party followers as a whole, not just our ancient friend here.  Let's look at some numbers...
> 
> Cost of Iraq war-$975 billion over 7 years and rising
> Benefit to US Taxpayer-Zero
> ...



You've obviously forgotten about September 11, 2001 and the connection to Iraq.  It was Saddam's relationship with Al Qaeda and his weapons of mass destruction that made 9/11 possible.  You and I are safer because Iraq and Afghanistan are now western style democracies with nearly the exact same culture and lifestyle that you and I enjoy.  No one complained when we attacked Germany in WWII and this was probably even more necessary than that.

Also, the seeds of democracy are now planted in the arab world and Iranians will see the life that the Iraqis now enjoy and will follow suit.  It is now only a matter of a few years until all of the middle east looks just like western Europe.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 25, 2010)

The one good thing about this health care reform it eliminated gender rating , those of us who provide health insurance for companies that have over 50% female employees, we pay 48% higher than the same size company with majority males. ( thus, most daycares, schools etc are doing this, and if you think a company who can hire men and women equally don't  make sure they have a slightl percentage higher male to female ratio, then you are innocent).  I have already talked to HUMana,  they will be lowering our premiums by 50%, that means we go from half a million a year to 250, 000 big change...


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 25, 2010)

Ftw


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## Dale Mabry (Mar 25, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> You've obviously forgotten about September 11, 2001 and the connection to Iraq.  It was Saddam's relationship with Al Qaeda and his weapons of mass destruction that made 9/11 possible.  You and I are safer because Iraq and Afghanistan are now western style democracies with nearly the exact same culture and lifestyle that you and I enjoy.  No one complained when we attacked Germany in WWII and this was probably even more necessary than that.
> 
> Also, the seeds of democracy are now planted in the arab world and Iranians will see the life that the Iraqis now enjoy and will follow suit.  It is now only a matter of a few years until all of the middle east looks just like western Europe.



Holy shit, you must truly be a troll.


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## maniclion (Mar 25, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Holy shit, you must truly be a troll.


You can't honestly believe anyone would think like that, well at least not anyone with internet connectivity...only those in the deepest backwoods would even hint at pushing that as their true beliefs...I think he's trying to be a Colbert sensationalist...


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## Dale Mabry (Mar 25, 2010)

maniclion said:


> You can't honestly believe anyone would think like that, well at least not anyone with internet connectivity...only those in the deepest backwoods would even hint at pushing that as their true beliefs...I think he's trying to be a Colbert sensationalist...



I can honestly believe that... and stop calling me Shirley.


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## GearsMcGilf (Mar 25, 2010)

You know it's true.  Those planes were packed full of nukes and other WMD that Saddam had handed over to Usama Ben Laden just before the hijacking.  Saddam was also planning to hit us with all kinds of dirty nuclear bombs and mustart gas.  If we hadn't gone in, we would have been hit within a year or so.


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## Dale Mabry (Mar 25, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> You know it's true.  Those planes were packed full of nukes and other WMD that Saddam had handed over to Usama Ben Laden just before the hijacking.  Saddam was also planning to hit us with all kinds of dirty nuclear bombs and mustart gas.  If we hadn't gone in, we would have been hit within a year or so.



I get mustard gas from eating hotdogs.


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## Pirate! (Mar 25, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> I can honestly believe that... and stop calling me Shirley.



Ha, good ole' Airplane.

I'm sure Gears was being sarcastic. It's funny and sad when you call it like it is. Some things make sense until you express them with words.


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