# Testosterone Nation legit?



## bmw5002 (Sep 18, 2007)

Hey guys, Im a brand new member here. Im getting into bodybuilding, 19 yrs old, moderately lean @ ~145lbs 5'7", bit of a hard gainer, and Im looking to supplement a bit. I've got a few questions for the more experienced of you out there. Don't worry, I've been doing my research and these are not completely noob questions. Anyways here goes.

Whew, the amount of misinformation and marketing hype out there for supplements is staggering. For the last two days, I've been wading through the piles of junk out there on the net looking for credible information on what will help me out, and what is a bunch of BS. So far this is my supplement plan:


> 8AM:
> 20g Protein
> 5g L-Glutamine
> 5g Creatine (loading)
> ...


*Comments? Suggestions? Can you guys verify that L-Glutamine is worthwhile to supplement here?* Im looking for anything else that may be beneficial. 

So far I think Ive come up with some credible information. I found one article showing an independant lab test (Cheap Creatine Products: Not Worth the Savings) on chemical content of creatine products. Yes, the site looks like an advertisement for an ebook, but this particular article looks pretty legit. For the lazy: Creatine is no longer just creatine. It is essential to buy a good quality product to avoid bad inpurities like Dicyandiamide, Creatinine & Dyhydrotriazine. *The tests show that german creatine products have the lowest levels of impurities. Would you guys agree with this?* I went and bought some creatine at GNC today, just because I get the hookup there and I wanted to start loading up. *Does anyone know of the purity of the GNC creatine? * I have read that GNC is a mainly profit-maximizing company and they don't care to provide the best products. Thus I am searching for the best products.

One site in particular that has caught my interest is Testosterone Nation (http://www.t-nation.com/). I was a little suspicious after seeing the mega-hype of BioTest products here, and surely enough, BioTest owns this site. *Mainly of interest to me is the german micronized creatine they sell, for one. Anyone know of the purity of this?* I did also find some legit-looking articles on there. Mainly this (TESTOSTERONE NATION) article interests me. It completely dicounts NO2 supplements and L-Argenine as doing any good. *I'm also interested if you guys have any opinions of the BioTest products in general. Many seem to be saying their Metabolic Drive shake mix is pretty much up there.*

Some more questions:

So far ive scratched out NO2/L-Argenine. Is AAKG BS too?
Are BCAA products worthwhile?
My GNC dude mentioned researching Beta-Alanine/Histidine. Is that stuff legit?
Ive also read about guys dosing up with L-Argenine, Ornithine, and Lysine in a combination deal. Anything worth looking at?

I'm really just trying to give myself any extra help I can get with maximizing muscle gains short of steroids or anything crazy like that. I understand this stuff isn't magical and requires hard work as well. Any suggestions on the best products that are proven? Its hard cutting through all the BS . 

Thanks in advance!
Brett


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## nni (Sep 18, 2007)

creatine loading isnt necessary and glutaime is a waste. i have never read anything useful from t-nation.

So far ive scratched out NO2/L-Argenine. Is AAKG BS too?

NO products are good for creating a pump, possibly transporting nutrients faster, and if citrulline is included good for endurance. so they work, BUT they dont work directly on muscle, so its only bs if you think a NO product will make you huge, they will perform their duty though.

Are BCAA products worthwhile?

on a cut yes, overall no. i am more of a fan of EAA pre workout.

My GNC dude mentioned researching Beta-Alanine/Histidine. Is that stuff legit?

DONT SHOP AT GNC!!!! beta alanine is a great product and you will pay twice too much at gnc for it. the histidine is not needed for the BA to work.

Ive also read about guys dosing up with L-Argenine, Ornithine, and Lysine in a combination deal. Anything worth looking at?

sure it is, check out N.O. Limits, or just read the pdf on the website to learn more.


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## bmw5002 (Sep 18, 2007)

nni said:


> creatine loading isnt necessary and glutaime is a waste.



i just read this in an article on the ironmagazine site:


			
				Ironmag Article said:
			
		

> Glutamine
> 
> Glutamine is an amino acid that is produced by our bodies, but most of the time our bodies demand so much, that it can't create enough. I supplement my diet with glutamine to increase my levels of glutathione. Glutathione is a powerful antioxidant, which helps to combat the stresses of exercise trauma, and prevent muscle protein breakdown.
> 
> I especially believe that it helps prevent my body from breaking down my new muscle while I am asleep, so I never go to bed without taking it. I take about 15g per day (in divided doses), which would be impossible to get naturally.





nni said:


> NO products are good for creating a pump, possibly transporting nutrients faster, and if citrulline is included good for endurance. so they work, BUT they dont work directly on muscle, so its only bs if you think a NO product will make you huge, they will perform their duty though.


this is interesting because I read that massive amounts of argenine have to be administered to actually cause any vasodilation. as in enough to give you an upset stomach x10.  which NO products have you personally used that worked for you?



nni said:


> EAA pre workout


explain plz? is that a product?



nni said:


> or just read the pdf on the website to learn more.


not sure where this is??

also, do you have any opinion on any of BioTest's products? looks like they have a nicely priced, quality creatine.


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## bmw5002 (Sep 18, 2007)

nni, i realize you have not promoted any of your products thus far, but i feel like if i talk to someone from a supplement company they will just tell me stuff to convince me to buy their supplements. anyone out there have unbiased, first-hand experience with some of these supplements?


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## nni (Sep 18, 2007)

you got me, i am a company mouthpiece looking for a sale!!!!!

that or i have wasted so much money on supps and read so many studies that a company thought my opinion was a good one and wanted me to help people with them in mind.

i said read the pdf because IT FIT what you were asking.
http://designersupps.com/product_writeups/nolimits.pdf

anyway, argnine will cause a pump, i have treid several NO products, some did crap, some worked.

glutamine is a waste there are so many studies out there showing that it is required in large doses and it simply isnt cost effective or worth it for your average lifter. if you are an elite lifter in the pro level, then go for it.

EAA is essential amino acids, which DS does NOT sell. I prefer this over BCAA as tipton did several studies with EAA and carbs all very promising.

epic makes a product called 8-Beta anabol, if has beta alanine and eaa's and carbs, add in a little creatine mono and you have a great functional pre workout cocktail. you can do without glutamine and NO products. what i said previously and carbs + whey post workout, and you are set.


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