# Bench to chest, or to when arms are parallel to floor?



## Big G (Jan 25, 2012)

Breif history...
Out for two years for feet surgeries, blood clots & hip problems, I've lost 20lb of meat. 6 weeks back in the gym, I strained my anterior delt benching.

I used to bench to my chest, but being so much smaller now than I used to be, I can't help but wonder if I should only go down to where my upper arms are parallel to the floor. Seems like the latter would be easier on my shoulders.

Merkaba, Cowpimp, Pebbles (etc).. Your thoughts pls.

Thx in advance, btw.


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## Big G (Jan 25, 2012)

I believe vindicated346 just answered this question here… http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/training/153644-400lbs-bench-motivation.html via this link...
Dave Tate's Six-Week Bench Press Cure - YouTube


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## coolhandjames (Jan 25, 2012)

Go with whatever's comfortable.... you already have shoulder issues, don't make it worse


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## MyK (Jan 26, 2012)

how about ease in to it. work on balance and form before jumping back in to matching your max bench.


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## ThreeGigs (Jan 26, 2012)

Shoulder issues, especially anterior delt?
Bar to your chest just below the bottoms of your pecs, arms at 45 degrees.

Definitely all the way to the chest, though, unless you're trying to improve just your lockout. Use full ROM whenever possible.


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## ThreeGigs (Jan 26, 2012)

Looks like I managed to double post, editing this one out.


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## vindicated346 (Jan 26, 2012)

If set up properly *the video to me is proper* then your elbows will never go below the bench, and the more it does, the more stress on the shoulders, tucking your elbows really helps with taking stress off the shoulders, but ease back into it


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## Gazhole (Jan 26, 2012)

^ agree with this.

45 degree angle from upper arm to torso, tuck your elbows in, touch the chest, press back up. Taking a closer grip will also help shoulder problems, and build you some mean ass triceps.

Also, start light!


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## dieseljimmy (Jan 26, 2012)

I stopped flat benching and heavy squats years ago...gasps...

Every time I would flat bench I felt a pinching in my left shoulder. It would last almost until the next chest day. I kept doing it for years cause that's what I was "supposed" to do. Now I decline and incline as the meat of my chest workout and I never have any shoulder issues since. I still use flat bench flyes, reverse grip or  Guillotine press but only on lightweight sets.


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## GMO (Jan 26, 2012)

Gazhole said:


> ^ agree with this.
> 
> 45 degree angle from upper arm to torso, tuck your elbows in, touch the chest, press back up. Taking a closer grip will also help shoulder problems, and build you some mean ass triceps.
> 
> Also, start light!



x2


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## Big G (Jan 26, 2012)

vindicated346 said:


> If set up properly *the video to me is proper* then your elbows will never go below the bench, and the more it does, the more stress on the shoulders, tucking your elbows really helps with taking stress off the shoulders, but ease back into it



I honestly thought I was easing back in. I worked from the 10-12 rep range down to the 6 rep range over 8 weeks, then PING! Shoulder strain.

Old 1RM bench was 260lb. Injured myself doing 167lb. 

I've watched & rewatched that video a dozen times already, I bet. When I get back to benching, rest-assured I'll take it even easier. I'm sure I'll look like a wanker in the gym for a while, but whatever. I need my shoulder. I'll work around it for the time being. I'm guessing 6-8 weeks to heal. Maybe I'll try a few pushups along the way to see how it's coming along.

Thx all for comments. What a wonderful resource this site it. Thx again everyone.


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## Big G (Jan 26, 2012)

ThreeGigs said:


> Looks like I managed to double post, editing this one out.



It was doing that to me too, all last night. Kept telling me I couldn't repost within 10 seconds, but I only pressed the Submit button once. 

Hope that doesn't continue. It was a drag.


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## bjg (Jan 26, 2012)

u don't need to bench to be in shape, you are not working for a power lifting competition so why do you want to hurt yourself benching? wait until your shoulder is fine.. do dumbell presses or other chest exercise you will be fine...i spent a whole year without benching and i did not loose anything in fact i was in a better shape just by doing lighter weights and no benches at all. people give bench presses too much importance just because it is one of the basic lifts in power lifting but in fact as far as bodybuilding is concerned bench presses can be replaced. After one year without benching it took me about 1 month to go back to where i was as far as strength and benching are concerned...so no big deal just manage your injury.


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## ThreeGigs (Jan 26, 2012)

6-8 weeks to heal? Maybe enough for light use, but figure on 6 to 8 *months* before it's completely healed if any connective tissue was involved. You can work out while it's healing, but remember it's gonna be weak, and I don't mean just weak like lower weights, I mean weak like more easily re-injured or torn.


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## cod123 (Jan 26, 2012)

I've always bench so that my elbows never go below the bench. Supposed to help with strain on delt.


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## Big G (Jan 26, 2012)

ThreeGigs said:


> 6-8 weeks to heal? Maybe enough for light use, but figure on 6 to 8 *months* before it's completely healed if any connective tissue was involved. You can work out while it's healing, but remember it's gonna be weak, and I don't mean just weak like lower weights, I mean weak like more easily re-injured or torn.



Good lord! I hope not.


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## Big G (Jan 26, 2012)

bjg said:


> ... why do you want to hurt yourself benching? .. do dumbell presses or other chest exercise you will be fine...



Not sure what I wrote to make you think I want to hurt myself. Regardless, that's certainly not the plan.

Why would dumbbell presses be safer?


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## bjg (Jan 26, 2012)

Big G said:


> Not sure what I wrote to make you think I want to hurt myself. Regardless, that's certainly not the plan.
> 
> Why would dumbbell presses be safer?


 Sometimes it works because with dumbells you have more freedom of movement , your shoulder joint has more freedom to adjust and position itself in a way it does not hurt you of course you should not use heavy weights for that.


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## triplstep (Jan 26, 2012)

bjg said:


> u don't need to bench to be in shape, you are not working for a power lifting competition so why do you want to hurt yourself benching? wait until your shoulder is fine.. do dumbell presses or other chest exercise you will be fine...i spent a whole year without benching and i did not loose anything in fact i was in a better shape just by doing lighter weights and no benches at all. people give bench presses too much importance just because it is one of the basic lifts in power lifting but in fact as far as bodybuilding is concerned bench presses can be replaced. After one year without benching it took me about 1 month to go back to where i was as far as strength and benching are concerned...so no big deal just manage your injury.


 
+1 ^ 

So many other movements than the old strength measuring device barbell bench press. I laugh at the youngsters that think the best way to show strength is a big bench. It is overated to the majority of gym rats. As well, it is a technical move that is performed incorrectly by most. No wonder so many injuries arise from the excercise.

Try utilizing military press, incline and flat dumbell press, pushups, dips........ to target the groups of muscles that the barbell bench press does. I quit due to shoulder injury over a decade ago, and the closest thing I do to the movement is close grip press to pound the triceps. My shoulders feel great, the look of 100 pound flat dumbell press is impressive enough, and my chest workouts don't suffer a bit..

good luck with the injury


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## hill450 (Jan 26, 2012)

I really pretty much quit doing regular flat bench. I've always read that decline and incline dumbell benching stimulates more than flat bench. This is why I never do barbell flat bench or incline for that matter. They seem to be much more stressful on the shoulders plus dumbell benching works on stabilizing muscles and is a much more natural movement. I don't have the near the shoulder problems I used to(none at the moment).

 I like to do heavy decline and heavy incline alternating each week and throwing in other exercises too of course. Hell, I like to raise a bench to 15 degrees above flat and thats even better than flat. I'm just a big fan of decline anymore.

Actually had a guy tell me in the gym that decline bench can cause gyno lmao good one buddy. 

Anyway, I would say fuck flat bench if you have shoulder issues. I know how it is and I feel for you and my chest has gotten better if anything since I quit. I'll still do wide grip or deep flat bench down to my neck or reverse grip flat for upper chest but it is not a large part of my program at all anymore. 

Just my two cents goodluck bud


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## bjg (Jan 26, 2012)

triplstep said:


> +1 ^
> 
> so many other movements than the old strength measuring device barbell bench press. I laugh at the youngsters that think the best way to show strength is a big bench. It is overated to the majority of gym rats. As well, it is a technical move that is performed incorrectly by most. No wonder so many injuries arise from the excercise.
> 
> ...



+1 exactly

and as a suggestion you can do the following with light weight: do dumbells flies 10-15 reps then follow immediatly with the same weight with dumbell press and let me know how your chest will feel like!


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## vindicated346 (Jan 27, 2012)

Big G said:


> I honestly thought I was easing back in. I worked from the 10-12 rep range down to the 6 rep range over 8 weeks, then PING! Shoulder strain.
> 
> Old 1RM bench was 260lb. Injured myself doing 167lb.



Two things kinda stand out to me on this..One you didnt give enough time "coming back" to acclimate yourself to lifting..or during lifting... improper form/technique or warm up was used.

Secondly I speculate that there is an underlying weakness, maybe somewhere in the tricep/shoulder area that should be addressed. Then again shit just happens sometimes, its all pure speculation from me though


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## Big G (Jan 27, 2012)

vindicated346 said:


> Two things kinda stand out to me on this..One you didnt give enough time "coming back" to acclimate yourself to lifting..or during lifting... improper form/technique or warm up was used.
> 
> Secondly I speculate that there is an underlying weakness, maybe somewhere in the tricep/shoulder area that should be addressed. Then again shit just happens sometimes, its all pure speculation from me though



I think you nailed it. Should've probably stuck with the 10-12 rep range for the entire first program, rather than training progressively (& probably too rapidly) to the 6 rep range. Also, that particular day I skipped my usual 10min pre-workout run because my workout buddy was hungover and refused to run or wait. I did do a couple minutes of plates swings, but that's not exactly comparable to a warm-up run. 

From what I've read/watched/learned since, I'm guessing my form is a little off too. Not much though, as far as I can tell. I do remember noticing my elbows trying to flare out on the last few reps. Plus, as the final rep was barely creeping upwards my spotter tried to take the bar and I told him "don't touch it!" which was probably not too smart too.

I have an evening of Pushing scheduled for tonight, so it's going to be a delicate game of trial & (hopefully no) error. I'm planning on trying dumbbells, incline, decline, cable crossovers, skullcrushers, assisted dips (rather than my usual BW&50lb+) plus maybe some military press (type) exercises with dumbbells. I don't know about flies. I'm pretty sure they're not exactly easy on delts, but I may be wrong.

I probably won't do all of those. I just want to find something that doesn't cause any discomfort. And, even then, keep the weight down with modest reps. 

Wish me luck!! Will post workout this evening, hopefully not reporting on excrutiating pain tomorrow!

Thanks all for your input. Yay, Broscience!


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## CowPimp (Jan 27, 2012)

If you really NEED to reduce ROM do it.  I would advise trying to bench more PL style and see if it's doable.  If not, then reduced ROM is better than none.  You could also just avoid flat benching, trying inclines, declines, dumbbells, or even weighted pushups.  You don't have to do flat bench pressing (I know... blasphemy...).


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## vindicated346 (Jan 27, 2012)

Form and Technique seem to be the Achilles heel when it comes to injuries, and less likely the weight used, Like you said you used to bench 260lbs, and hurt yourself on 167lbs. and Cowpimp is right, powerlifting style is a good way to go.

Also, the part about your spotter trying to take the bar, what i'm guessing happened there was that when you spoke/yelled you let your air out, which can alter the base you were pressing from, and sometimes thats all it takes


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## Big G (Jan 27, 2012)

Might not have been to smart to have hit the gym tonight. I don't know. Probably find out tomorrow morning. Cable Xovers & skullcrushers seemed OK (maybe a little achey). 25lb DB decline presses hurt. Assisted dips hurt. 5lb rotator cuff exercises hurt. Left pissed & worried. Reached for an icepack when I got home. =(

Discussed the situation with a massive guy who's there every day. He said he'd strained his shoulder doing military presses, but it only bothered him doing that movement. He could still bench, so it's not exactly comparable. But he did say 6-8 weeks later it eased up and he was able to start retraining with really light weights.

I just hope it's nothing horrible. After two years of surgeries, blood clots and other BS, it's so nice to be back running & lifting & eating right again. But I need a shoulder. =(


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## triplstep (Jan 27, 2012)

sorry to hear the news bro.

Keep up with the leg work, get creative with a ham/glut spit to keep you at the gym. You want to continue making gains while your delt heals.

My health care provider these days is a massage therapist. Without a doubt I am still in the game because of the healing properties of massage. Maybe a knowledgeable therapist is available through your gym or the other gym you referred to.

Good luck Bro


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## stfuandliftbtch (Jan 27, 2012)

Big G said:


> Breif history...
> Out for two years for feet surgeries, blood clots & hip problems, I've lost 20lb of meat. 6 weeks back in the gym, I strained my anterior delt benching.
> 
> I used to bench to my chest, but being so much smaller now than I used to be, I can't help but wonder if I should only go down to where my upper arms are parallel to the floor. Seems like the latter would be easier on my shoulders.
> ...




honestly, start the first few weeks with dumbbells for benching. Get some good stability back in those ant. delts muscles


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## Big G (Jan 28, 2012)

triplstep said:


> Keep up with the leg work, get creative with a ham/glut spit to keep you at the gym.



 Any suggestions?



stfuandliftbtch said:


> honestly, start the first few weeks with dumbbells for benching. Get some good stability back in those ant. delts muscles



Can't help but wonder (read "worry") that it's not the ant' delt. Resistance on the lateral & posterior delt doesn't hurt, whereas resistance on the ant' delt does, but with all the little muscles in the shoulder (plus pain transferring like it can) it could potentially be anything, I suppose.

My health insurance has a $12,000 deductible ($6k ea. for wife & I) and, since I'm not in a position to start a $500/mo pmt plan, I'm kind-of screwed when it comes to any professional advice.

I'm cutting right now (8-10lb to go), so I'll just up my cardio & keep pounding legs. Rows on Monday didn't seem to bother it either, so I should be good to go there too. I'll give it a couple of months and start light-light-light on DBs as you suggested. 

I'll post some updates along the way. Might (hopefully) turn out to be an encouraging story for anyone else searching this forum for delt/shoulder issues. Fingers crossed.

Thx all.


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## Big G (Jan 28, 2012)

Just curious (& inexperienced), but would a PH cycle speed healing?


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## vindicated346 (Jan 28, 2012)

for speeding or helping with repair, I would be looking into an IGF-Lr3 cycle


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## johnniejr243 (Jan 28, 2012)

Parallel to floor, any further and you wear out our shoulders when ur chest can handle moor!!
And technically its proper form.


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## Powermaster (Feb 3, 2012)

vindicated346 said:


> for speeding or helping with repair, I would be looking into an IGF-Lr3 cycle



Doesn't IGF dry your joints out?

I doubt a PH will help with shoulder healing at all.
I've used frank HGH to help with repairing shoulder issues then used ghrp2 ED and deca to maintain.
I still can't flat bench with a bar every week and limit it to once a month.
I substitute dumbell benching or incline and declines with the bar.


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## malk (Feb 3, 2012)

sounds like you have a real problem there,cant you get a scan and find
out whats wrong with it,before wasting your money on drugs that wont
help you.


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## ckcrown84 (Feb 5, 2012)

I am sure a zillion people will hate me for this comment but forget the bench and do pushups. If your body can't handle the bench right now don't do it...don't risk further hurting yourself. You, and everyone else, would be amazed off what you can maintain with good old fashioned pushups.


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## jdog911 (Feb 5, 2012)

thanks for those youtube links, good stuff for starters. Had to show some buddies so i wouldnt have to explain shit anymore.


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## tommygunz (Feb 6, 2012)

Gazhole said:


> ^ agree with this.
> 
> 45 degree angle from upper arm to torso, tuck your elbows in, touch the chest, press back up. Taking a closer grip will also help shoulder problems, and build you some mean ass triceps.
> 
> Also, start light!



I agree this is the only way to take my shoulders out and still get chest isolation.


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