# Opinions on cutting cycles



## Testonut (May 21, 2011)

I want to use something to give me the little "extra" this summer. I don't want to gain much muscle at all.. I really just want the steroids to help me get a bit more cut/defined. 

*Key is diet & cardio, hell yeah  *




I have 3 cycles in mind:
*
1) 10 weeks with:*



Test-e           250mg e/w
Masteron-e  4-500mg e/w
Reasoning for this: Low dose with test = little water retention.. and masteron also works a bit like an AI, so I think I can get away with no AI ? 

I fear I will get acne on this, though. I hate that shit.. 

*2) 8 weeks with:*



50-60mg tbol e/d
Reasoning for this: I can take tablets easily with me, if I were to go on vacation. Slow gains, should be easy to retain them.

*3) 8 weeks with:*


Anavar: 50-75mg e/d
Reasoning for this: Same as tbol.. but the added "fat burning property" anavar has is a plus. 



I don't think any of these 3 cycles are bad on "gyno", as I seem to get gyno symptoms easily (I get symptoms on 500mg test e/w at least.. so I always use an AI with a high dose like that).

I also know that 90% of you will tell me that oral only cycles are retarded.


*Any opinions ? *


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## JCBourne (May 21, 2011)

You need test in any cycle, don't be dumb. 250mg is way to low to shut your natty test down for. Be smart about it.


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## weightslayer (May 21, 2011)

250mgs will shut your natty test levels down. it just might take a little longer, but it will shut it down. also, you may need a AI. even though it's a low doses of test. IMO the mast will be a waste, is this your first cycle? if it's not and you want some really gains then use tren ace at 50-75 mgs/eod. this will give you strength, and also add new muscle. keep in mind though that it's not as safe as the mast and will give you more sides. you are right that diet and cardio are the key here, the main point in using AAS in this type of cycle is to maintain muscle mass while dieting, so that being said IF THIS IS YOUR FIRST CYLE then i would do this test e 200-400mgs/week for 10 weeks. at the last 4 weeks run 30mgs/winny ED. anavar is a waste of your money unless you dose it pretty high for longer periods of time, and used in conjunction with stronger injectables, and 250mgs test wont due it. unless you are already in very good condition. throw in a AI and you are good to go. where is your PCT?


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## tupin (May 21, 2011)

I'd do a 4 to 6 week Test Prop (300mg/wk) + Anavar (60mg/ed) cycle. Short and sweet. You shouldn't retain much water and not have much sides.


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## Dolfan84 (May 21, 2011)

Mast is no substitute for an AI. If all you are trying to do is preserve muscle while dieting then use test with an AI and maybe toss in winny or var at end. This is all if you are gonna use AAS regardless.


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## Testonut (May 22, 2011)

tupin said:


> I'd do a 4 to 6 week Test Prop (300mg/wk) + Anavar (60mg/ed) cycle. Short and sweet. You shouldn't retain much water and not have much sides.



I always get a shitload of acne when using test-e (usually around week 10++). Do you think I will get away with that, if I take a short cycle like that? I also know that 8 weeks is what is usually recommended.. won't 4-6 be a bit short?

I can't get hold of anavar either..

But let's just assume I were to pin 100mg test-prop EOD, for 6 weeks. During those 6 weeks I would also take tbol (I think I would only take 30mg e/d.. to save some money.. because tbol is quite expensive). Would this be a decent "cut" cycle ? 

*6 weeks with:

100mg test-prop eod
30mg tbol e/d*

It's not easy getting hold of AIs for me either.. I might get some arimidex.. if I can't get some arimidex/aromasin, do you think it would be sufficient to just keep an eye out for symptoms, and just pop some nolvadex if I get symptoms ? 

As for PCT... I would start it 2 days after last injection.. And take nolva/clomid for 4 weeks. Is this sufficient ?


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## GMO (May 22, 2011)

Testonut said:


> _I don't want to gain much muscle at all_.. I really just want the steroids to help me get a bit more cut/defined.
> 
> *Key is diet & cardio, hell yeah  *



Don't want to gain muscle?  Wow...that type of thinking is foreign to me.

Steroids are not needed to get cut/defined.  You nailed it when you said "Key is diet and cardio".

If you are not looking for muscle gains, AAS are completely unnecessary.  So why use them at all?

Diet, do cardio and maybe employ an ECA stack or clen, but I would stay away for AAS if I were you.


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## SUPERFLY1234 (May 22, 2011)

GMO said:


> Don't want to gain muscle?  Wow...that type of thinking is foreign to me.
> 
> Steroids are not needed to get cut/defined.  You nailed it when you said "Key is diet and cardio".
> 
> ...



agree this^^  diet, diet, diet! no diet, no ripped abs,


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## Supervette101 (May 22, 2011)

If I'm reading it right, what Gymrat707 was trying to say was. That at that low of a dose of test its just not worth having your testies shrink and natural test be shut down. Unless this was your first cycle and that amount might actually do you some good I'd have to agree with GMO, Diet and Cardio.


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## Testonut (May 23, 2011)

I guess I should have explained myself a little better in #1.

When I say I have no need for a lot of muscle, what I meant by that is that I have no need for a HEAVY cycle... So this cycle is not meant to be a mass cycle, but a cut cycle. If I gain some kilos of muscles, then hell yes, of course that is welcome.

I didn't know it was that bad to run 250mg test along with 400mg masteron (I assumed the masteron would shut me down anyway). But I guess it would be better running 400/400 of each. 


I just bought some nolvadex, arimidex (20x1mg) and clomid, all pharm grade.

What I have in mind is this:



 100mg test-prop EOD
 30mg tbol ED (first 5 weeks) / or 50mg winstrol ED for 5-6 weeks.
 I would take 0.5mg arimidex EOD, and bump it up to 1mg EOD if needed too.
 And PCT 2 days after last injection.
 
The only thing im not certain of at the moment, is how long the cycle should be. 

6, 7 or 8 weeks.

I will be shut down, so, I guess I should opt for 8 weeks. 

Im also _considering_ adding some masteron into the mix.


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## BIGBEN2011 (May 23, 2011)

some people on here are wroung when they say that aas are for geting huge and gaining muscle only.that is not true arnold and the likes use to use gear when dieting hard and doing lots of cardio to keep muscle that with out gear you would loose due to the hard core dieting and cardio geting ready for a show.most people on here are just plain wroung i like to use gear to help me not to gain muscle i use protien and heavy weights and a good diet to do that and my gentics.but i use gear to not loose muscle while dieting and doing lots of cardio.i hate when people get bashed on here when they say i want to run a cyle and dont want to gain muscle maybe just maybe they are big all ready and dont want to loose that hard earned muscle they worked hard for.


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## XYZ (May 23, 2011)

Testonut said:


> I guess I should have explained myself a little better in #1.
> 
> When I say I have no need for a lot of muscle, what I meant by that is that I have no need for a HEAVY cycle... So this cycle is not meant to be a mass cycle, but a cut cycle. If I gain some kilos of muscles, then hell yes, of course that is welcome.
> 
> ...


 
"Heavy cycles" are usually only cutting cycles.  Bulking cycles are minimal, and diet controls things with both.

What's your BF% right now?


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## mlc308 (May 23, 2011)

use winnie v and eventually anavar... you also need an AI IMO.


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## Testonut (May 23, 2011)

Im not sure what my BF is.. never measured it.

http://imageshack.us/m/692/9756/deleteme.jpg

Not the best picture.. but you get an idea.

I know you need a low fat % to use Masteron/winny.. If im not there yet, I think I am close at least.. ?

FYI im 93kilos in the morning.. 1.86m.


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## BigBird (May 23, 2011)

I'll be running 400mg EW of Mast Prop beginning June 1st but I'm also stacking it with 500mg of Test EW and Winstrol 100mg ED.  Using the cycle as part of body recomp.  Already did my bulking but I would at least have an AI on hand to take immediately at on-set of sore nipples, etc.  Water retention will not be much with the Mast or Winny but the Test is certainly notorious for this.  I use the AI in somewhat of an unorthodox way.  That is, 0.5mg Adex E3D/E4D.  This is how I run it but I would advise you to know your body first.  And do not start cycle until you have everything on hand including pct.


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## UA_Iron (May 23, 2011)

bump the 250mg/test e up to 375/week
run the mast E at 500mg/week

yes, the masteron will work like an AI at that dose. Chances are you will not need an AI, but have some on hand anyway.

Run var in the beginning and winny at the end. 

Diet, like everyone else said will be your biggest factor if this is a cutting cycle or not. I recommend carb cycling for ultimate shreds and retaining muscle ala CKD style. 

Orals are the best for hardening up, might as well run the injectables too. We aim to spare as much muscle as possible while dieting.


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## Testonut (May 24, 2011)

I've been going a little back and forward in this thread, with what to use. I was set on going for a simple oral cycle, but ended up with EOD pinning.. 

I have now ordered what I plan on using.
*
This is what I will have on hand and use soon:*



 100mg test-prop EOD for 7.5weeks (3x1000ml bottles)
 50mg winny ED for 7.5 weeks (I got 3000mg..)
 0.5mg Arimidex EOD (I got 20x1mg tabs. I need ~12 tabs for my 8 week  cycle. I will use the rest of those tabs during PCT I think.. also 0.5mg  EOD).
 
*PCT (starting 2 days after last injection): 4 weeks with 20mg Nolvadex ED and 50mg clomid for 3-4 weeks, ED.*


Shanghai Labs Testo-prop & Winny. I have no experience with this brand, but I can always make another thread if I think something is fishy.


Unless im doing something retarded here, this is what I will go with.


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## D-Lats (May 24, 2011)

BIGBEN2011 said:


> some people on here are wroung when they say that aas are for geting huge and gaining muscle only.that is not true arnold and the likes use to use gear when dieting hard and doing lots of cardio to keep muscle that with out gear you would loose due to the hard core dieting and cardio geting ready for a show.most people on here are just plain wroung i like to use gear to help me not to gain muscle i use protien and heavy weights and a good diet to do that and my gentics.but i use gear to not loose muscle while dieting and doing lots of cardio.i hate when people get bashed on here when they say i want to run a cyle and dont want to gain muscle maybe just maybe they are big all ready and dont want to loose that hard earned muscle they worked hard for.



Hmm I thought this was your first cycle?? You must have meant you heard people use it for cutting as you never have before.


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## BIGBEN2011 (May 24, 2011)

why do you keep saying this is my first cycle and why are you all ways looking to start trouble with me.thats your problem you assume a lot of things and you know what they say about people that assume.i clearly said in my first post here i have ran sevral test and deca stacks in the past.dont know what this has to do with anything besides your insecurities toward me move on dude there is all ways going to be people no matter what your on that will be bigger and bader than you even when you do finally get big.


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## trapzilla (May 24, 2011)

Testonut said:


> I want to use something to give me the little "extra" this summer. I don't want to gain much muscle at all.. I really just want the steroids to help me get a bit more cut/defined.
> 
> *Key is diet & cardio, hell yeah  *
> 
> ...


 
If your asking for my opinion on cutting cycles overall....i don't like them, its a waste of gear IMO. being on gear to prevent muscle loss i don't count as a cycle, just supplementation 

with regards to your proposed cycles I would do the following personally;

weeks 1-10 test prop 500mg ew split eod
weeks 1-8 anavar 60-100mg ed(anything less does nothing for me, 250mg is the shizz!)
weeks 1-10 adex.5 mg ed
weeks 11-14 asin 12.5mg ed
weeks 11-14 clomid 100/75/50/50 ed

that is just what i'd do though


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## Testonut (Jul 28, 2011)

Just thought I could make a little update.
*
I ended up doing this:*



Week 1-6: 100mg test-prop EOD (350mg E/W)
Week 6-10:150mg test-prop EOD (500mg E/W)
Week 1-8: 50mg Oral Winny E/D
Week 1-10: 0.5mg Arimidex EOD (Next time I will use 0.75 or 1mg EOD)
Week 6-10: 45-60mg Ephedrine + 200mg Coffeine E/D

Im now in week 8. Got 2 weeks left.. I got some leftover Tbol im considering using 40-50mg E/d until I start PCT. Might be hard in the liver, using orals for 10 weeks straight.. so I haven't quite decided yet.

If I remember correctly my start weight was around 92kilos.. I quickly ended up at around 95-96 kilos, and stayed there. When I started using ephedrine/coffeine, I managed to lose around 2 kilos in 2 weeks. So im around 94 kilos now. Of course I have been doing cardio several times a week, and eating decent.

I didn't expect to be able to lift what I have done before.. but I have actually increased in most exercises.. like benchpress. Former record was 155kilos. Now I managed to lift 165kilos. I think I will be able to pull off lifting 170 kilos before im "done".

In deadlift I have lifted 245kilos (my record is 250kilos), so I might actually be able to set a new record here also.

Arnold one-arm-dumbell-press.. I lifted around 35 kilos before (8 reps), I think. Now Im able to lift 40 kilos (8 reps) - it's heavier with one arm than with 2.

Chins: Former record was 8 reps with 25 kilos. I recently did 8 reps with 40 kilos. 




So overall I must say im VERY happy. Im a skinny bitch with a lot more defined muscles, im a tad lighter (BW), and im setting records in most exercises. 

I can even see a clear difference myself (also by comparing pictures from before & after).


Im not looking forward to PCT, I assume I will lose some definition and strength then. But we'll see  It's how I end up looking/lifting a month or two after the cycle that will truly say if this cycle was worth it.


Gyno has been kept in check with the arimidex... But I have popped nolvadex 5-6 times though (If I get a symptom or get a bit paranoid, I pop one 20mg Nolva.. it takes the symptom/paranoia away at once). 

I always got bad acne from testo-e/deca etc.. but I don't seem to have any problems with this using test-p (never get acne from winny). Not saying it will not come- but so far, so good.


I will run a bit different PCT than what is recommended. 

It will be like this:

Clomid: 100/50/25/25
Nolva:   40/40/20/20

No aromasin available yet, but I think I will get hold of some soon. Popping Nolva because I got some pre-excisting gyno. This will also be the first time im using CLOMID for PCT (Yes I know this forum swears by it..).


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