# 2 Years of lifting, 2 cycles 115lbs - 170lbs



## bobdylan (Oct 30, 2011)

Upper body lacks because well:

A) I think things like chest, tris, delts and bis  need more mind-muscle connection than legs - though I've made a conceded effort here and it has shown in the last few months IMO.
B) Genetics
C) Separated my A/C joint when I was more PLing orientated during the first 8 months of my lifting - never been right since even after NPP and GHRPs (not to mention tons of time off and rehand before all that)

*Start - November '09 115lbs, no lifting exp yet besides some p90x during the month of October - was self concious so got in shape before I went to the gym but to me this just meant arms and abs

Current -Lettuce call it November '11 170lbs - 10 week test cycle in the winter, 14 week test + 8 weeks NPP cycle in summer.*

First show is April 2012 

Anyways here are some pics 






































-Cheers


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## bobdylan (Nov 3, 2011)

Had a decent Chest/Tri day today

As always I am doing fst-7 + dc stretches

Here is my current layout layout if anyone is interested - Yes I like to train very high volume and skip days when I feel I need a day off:

*Shoulders/Traps/Calves* - Mon

Smith Presses: 3x8-10, 1x6-8 + drop set
Lateral Raises: 3-4x10-12
Front Raises: 3-4x10-12
Rear Delts: 3-4x10-12
HS Machine Presses: 7x12-15
Shrugs: 3-4x8-12
Upright rows: 5x12-15 (fast fst-7 style tempo)
Calf work

*Arms* - Tues

Bicep Exercise 1: 3-4x8-12
Bicep Exercise 2: 3-4x 10-2
Bicep Exercise 3: 7x12-15
Tricep Exercise 1: 3-4x8-12
Tricep Exercise 2: 3-4x8-12
Tricep Exercise 3: 3-4x8-12
Tricep Exercise 4: 7x12-15

*Legs* - Wed

Leg Exntensions: 3-4x10-12
Squats: 3-4x 8-10
Leg Presses: 5x12-15
SLDLs: 4x8-12
Lying Leg Curls: 4x8-12
Standing Leg Curls: 7x12-15

*Back/Bis/Calves* - Thurs

Underhand Pulldowns: 3-4x10-12
Wide Grip Pulldowns: 3-4x 8-10
DB Rows: 4x10-12
Cable Rows: 5-7x10-12 (again might not go all 7 sets but I do it using the fast fst-7 tempo)
Cross body curls: 3-4x10-12
Hammer Grip Preachers: 3-4x12-15
Calf work

*Chest/Tri* - Fri

Incline BB or DB: 4x8-12
Cable Flyes: 4x10-12
HS Chest Machine: 4x10-12
DB Flyes: 4x10-12
Machine Dips: 7x12-15
Tricep Pushdowns: 4x10-12
Cambered Bar Extensions: 4x10-12


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## juggernaut (Nov 4, 2011)

bobdylan said:


> Had a decent Chest/Tri day today
> 
> As always I am doing fst-7 + dc stretches
> 
> ...


In all seriousness, and acting as a moderator, I'd strongly suggest changing this workout. 
Way too much volume, too many isolation exercises and terrible placement of body parts worked. 
You may find that you will grow more if you change these things and reduce the volume and perhaps use a mix of different rep ranges.


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## banker23 (Nov 4, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> In all seriousness, and acting as a moderator, I'd strongly suggest changing this workout.
> Way too much volume, too many isolation exercises and terrible placement of body parts worked.
> You may find that you will grow more if you change these things and reduce the volume and perhaps use a mix of different rep ranges.


 
This is actually real good advice that addresses the issue bob has mentioned with joints. Cutting down on volume and eliminating arm isolation eliminated my tendonitis (self-diagosed so take it with a grain of salt) issues.

...and added 1/2 inch to both arms over a three week period-just under 17.5" to 17 7/8" -this was last week's measurement before I started most recent cycle so I expect to take off for real here real soon.

All disagreements aside, Juggernaut is giving real advice in good faith here with no attempts to poke at the OP...not what I'd expect in the anything goes section but cool nonetheless.


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## Built (Nov 4, 2011)

I agree - and so I've moved the first post and the workout into journals. 

bobdylan, your workouts are working - but you may find that a different approach also works - without trashing your joints. 

Your workouts all focus on isolation movements using machines, which are know to induce a condition Paul Chek refers to as "pattern overload" syndrome - repetitive strain by any other name. Upright rows are vastly inferior to powercleans and externally rotate the shoulder under a load. Some bodies tolerate them; they're far from optimal for anyone. Shrugs also fail when compared with heavy deads, rack pulls and powercleans. I see SLDL (I'm HOPING you do these as "stiff leg" and not "straight leg") - if these are in fact Romanian deads, that's great. If they're straight-legs, perhaps learn RDLs and or GMs and GHRs. Consider off the floor (conventional) deads. Finally, there's no need for "arm day" - as others have mentioned, it's a lot of strain on some of the smaller and already overused joints and tendons in your body.


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## bobdylan (Nov 4, 2011)

Actually I have been increasing volume over the last several months to this point, since becoming completely BBing focusedand going back to hitting all body which started in January '11 to be exact. I started using FST-7 around April '11. 

I trashed my a/c joint when I was more into power lifting and doing the 5/3/1 routine. At the time my shoulder went bad (July '10) I had been lifting for about 7 months and was just getting to the point where I was getting 2 plates on the bench so I would be doing 1-3rm's with 225 every week then bam one day while warming up with 185 my a/c joint just went.

I actually didnt start hitting arms 2x a week until just these last few weeks. Until then I was doing Arms only days and before that just a few iso arm movements at the end of chest or back days. I decided to do this based on what Hany Rambod says and also how top pros like Phil, Jay and Flex train. I am going to give the arms 2x a week a fair go because so far nothing has really worked to make them grow - I am still very new to bodybuilding so I still have lots of experimenting to do to figure out what works.

Also, I think it goes without saying that the less I am being enhanced the more random rest days I take and the more I err on the side of taking the path of less sets and reps.


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## Built (Nov 4, 2011)

I am not trying to talk you out of volume or frequency so much as setup. For example, why not train tris on a back day, and bis on a chest day? Or train arms and legs together, but on two separate days - "quads and bis", "hams and tris" for instance, or if you want arms twice a week - both. I'm learning to be a fan of volume, but I spread that volume around. Recovery isn't so hard when you do frequent hits rather than "destroy selected bodypart" day. 

PS trust me on the upright rows. You may wish to re-examine leg extensions as well - I only perform the top third of the movement. That's the business end of a leg extension anyway - the bottom two-thirds mostly just trashes your knees.


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## banker23 (Nov 4, 2011)

bobdylan said:


> Actually I have been increasing volume over the last several months to this point, since becoming completely BBing focusedand going back to hitting all body which started in January '11 to be exact. I started using FST-7 around April '11.
> 
> I trashed my a/c joint when I was more into power lifting and doing the 5/3/1 routine. At the time my shoulder went bad (July '10) I had been lifting for about 7 months and was just getting to the point where I was getting 2 plates on the bench so I would be doing 1-3rm's with 225 every week then bam one day while warming up with 185 my a/c joint just went.
> 
> ...


 
Don't give 2x a week arm days too _much_ of a fair go...give it a month max and then try NO arm work (I suspect you will not grow at all on 2x a week as I had the same problem before for a whole year with only one day of arm work). If you've never tried it wou will probably be staggered with how fast they take off


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## bobdylan (Nov 4, 2011)

I just don't see how arms can grow without isolation.

Every routine I have seen or tried does some arms isolation even stuff like DC training.

I like your idea built because as it is legs days are quite the struggle to get through and plus my legs are a strong point while my arms are a weak point so instead of just doing an arms day a quad/tri and ham/bi day or something as opposed to an arms and a legs day actually makes a lot of sense.

Since my bf is low enough I am going to be sticking to a recomp diet until the actual prep begins end of December/start of January which will be somewhere from 12-14 weeks of prep. 

Eating yesterday was:
350g Pro/250g CHO/75g Fat

Most my carbs come from:
-Kashi cereals (GoLean and Crunch)
-Milk

*I go through phases of eating either potatoes or cereal just depends on how my tastes are for that certain period.

Protein:
-93/7 ground beef or chicken => If I had more $$ I would eat only beef because I think it is superior due to its higher zinc and leucine content. That and I prefer the taste.

Also got more protein powder in so I am back to making my protein bars - a tasty way to treat myself everday while still eating clean

My recipe for those is:
-12 scoops Myofusion Whey (CHOCO PB IS A MUST!)
-210 grams Kashi GoLean
-3 cups/750 grams 1% milk
-70 grams Natty PB
-5 scoops ON casein (Flavor is not a big deal here but I keep the cookies n cream on deck because it tastes good when I make protein fluff)

Mix all that and freeze it. Yields me 10 bars of 18g CHO/51g PRO/8g Fat


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## Built (Nov 4, 2011)

My go-to workout setup is outlined here if you want to read it: Got Built? » Baby Got Back

One criticism that comes of fairly often is my setup de-emphasizes chest (hey, I'm a chick, my pecs are padded  ). You can easily supplement this in by emphasizing chest when you work triceps - which allows you to spread chest work across two workouts a week if this is of interest. Dips and decline barbell or smith presses can accomplish this quite easily.


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## Hench (Nov 4, 2011)

Built said:


> My go-to workout setup is outlined here if you want to read it: Got Built? » Baby Got Back
> 
> One criticism that comes of fairly often is my setup de-emphasizes chest (hey, I'm a chick, my pecs are padded  ). *You can easily supplement this in by emphasizing chest when you work triceps - which allows you to spread chest work across two workouts a week* if this is of interest. Dips and decline barbell or smith presses can accomplish this quite easily.



I use this set-up. Been doing so for 2+ years, and though I change it around from time to time, I always find my way back to the original template.


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## juggernaut (Nov 4, 2011)

Built said:


> My go-to workout setup is outlined here if you want to read it: Got Built? » Baby Got Back



This is what I also recommend and has become my go-to for contest prep this year. 
Aside from that, your protein is ridiculously high, and even at a bodyweight of 239 (as of this morning), my protein stays 1g per pound of lean mass and fat stays at .5g per pound of lean mass. The rest is cycled aka Built's method. It works, it's easy to understand and it gives me all the energy I need to get through my workouts. The rest of the day is spent in a keto fashion (protein and fat only). This method allows me to both bulk and cut depending on the time of the year or if I'm prepping for a goal, be it strongman or bodybuilding.

As for your pipes, stop and think about what you're doing-overtraining with a ridiculous amount of effort...in short, you're spinning your wheels. You'll burn out and turn to more gear because you're not growing fast enough. Your isolation work is off the wall. I only include 1 or possibly two exercises just to add volume and blast through the weak points I have. 
When I did prep for a strongman, My arms grew to 21 inches flexed with no arm work! Granted some of it was bodyfat, but my waist stayed the same. The sheer intensity of the weights I was hitting coupled with 531 and Blue Collar enabled me to grow up to 256lbs while maintaining a fat % of 12%. 
All of this was on a cruise cycle of 200mg of test a week.  

If you're really here to accept criticism, learn from others and not be as cocky, I'll be more than happy to offer advice. Just dont be a douchebag as you started out. Are my lifts powerful? Not at this moment, but I guarantee you would vomit during one of my complexes or torture tests. It's in your hands. By the way, Built is my mentor and the reason I am such an evolved trainer and fitness professional. She flat out knows her shit. I have been taught by the best. Gaz comes in a very close second.


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## Built (Nov 4, 2011)

Gaz is stronger and more jacked. He's also natural, and his training emphasizes strength over size. I'm more interested in looking pretty and aging well. And juggernaut's an excellent pimp to me. One of these days I'll make him some money. (I'll get you that pony you've always wanted, baby!) 

Like some and unlike others, I do appreciate the value of SOME direct concentration work for lagging parts. My arms grew when I started doing more concentration work - but I have yet to do "arm day". Do 'em first on a day when you train legs. Your legs won't suffer from the energy expenditure, and you'll be able to train arms when you're fresh.


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## juggernaut (Nov 4, 2011)

Fo real!
And obviously, strength in the offseason is hugely important in bodybuilding, just as cutting and training are. 

Should also mention that bob should do a search for Baby Got Biceps. Great way to grow them.


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## bobdylan (Nov 4, 2011)

Had a great quad/calf day today - I was under the weather earlier this week and had been taking some extra off days the previous week so I am easing back into work outs - especially the rather taxing legs days.

I ended up torrenting the FST-7 vid, Lee Priest's old vid and Flex Lewis' vid last night ... watched the FST-7 one during breakfast and up until my workout today.


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## J.thom (Nov 4, 2011)

keep it up man! You are going to kill shit!


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## MDR (Nov 5, 2011)

I agree with the feedback about op's routine. Too much volume and isolation. Need to shift the focus to multiple-joint exercises and change your training methods. Need to build the framework at your age. You are going to destroy your joints. Focus on basic movements and intense training. Regular deadlifts, military press, power cleans, squats, Bench press, ect. Take a look at what Gaz and Built are suggesting in their posts, and check out the logs. Focus on building strength first. You are getting a lot of great feedback from some very experienced members.


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## bobdylan (Nov 5, 2011)

My squat is 405x10 ... not sure I want it much stronger because as it stands I get plenty of knee pains after a heavy legs day.

I don't flat bench ever anymore either and don't plan on it.

I feel if anything is going to wreck my joints it is going to be my squat getting much higher or me doing something dumb like going back to flat bb benching as opposed to doing curls...but that is just me I am stupid.

I am definitely listening to what built has to say though and like I said my volume, intensity and etc drops ... all depends on how enhanced I am at the time.


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## Gazhole (Nov 5, 2011)

Just weighing in here, and aside from getting a boner from the praise being laid on me, i do agree with what Jugg & Built have been saying about your workouts. Take it to heart, despite what happened in the other thread everybody is here to help everybody else.

Personally, even though my focus has been on strength the last year or two, a lot of my training has always been built around hypertrophy. Volume is great for this, but the right kind of volume. You've gotta be smart with it. Ditch the exercises which have more risk than reward (arm isolation, upright rows, machines) and stick with movements that actually reward the level of risk with gains.

Cleans, for example, are fucking risky, you're throwing a heavy weight around, but you will grow like a fucking bear from them. Leg extensions will rape your knees, and probably give you nothing in the long run. Do some extra squats, mang.

I do honestly believe that strength is the foundation of all training. The bodybuilders i've had the pleasure of knowing also realize this and do basic heavy power training with squats, bench, deadlift, presses...they really only use isolation in the run up to a contest when they're so depleted a squat would likely do more harm than good.

Just something to think on!


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## davegmb (Nov 5, 2011)

I know your giving the guy advice, but he doesn't have to take it, there are lots of ways to train and nobody has all the answers! What he's doing has worked for him so far so we should applaud that! That's my take on it anyway.


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## bobdylan (Nov 5, 2011)

davegmb said:


> I know your giving the guy advice, but he doesn't have to take it, there are lots of ways to train and nobody has all the answers! What he's doing has worked for him so far so we should applaud that! That's my take on it anyway.



I am listening to some and taking some with a grain of salt -usually I don't listen to people if they don't have or never have had the physique to back it up.

I find most good advice doesn't come easy or often ... and as of late that it even has a monetary price on it sometimes.

With that said I think it is safe to say I am going to never listen to Juggernaut on his advice of 1g pro per lb bw. (he made it before the thread got split)

I don't think I did that when I was even just starting out lifting...which was quite a shock to my body as I used to eat pretty much just carbs and fats.


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## juggernaut (Nov 6, 2011)

bobdylan said:


> With that said I think it is safe to say I am going to never listen to Juggernaut on his advice of 1g pro per lb bw. (he made it before the thread got split)


Yes I said that, but I was referring to that as a baseline. I usually go to 1.25-1.5 without even trying. Take the advice, don't take the advice, but do change your workouts. They need to be fixed.


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## Built (Nov 6, 2011)

It's per pound lean mass, not per pound bodyweight. You really don't need that much protein - you'd be surprised but it's true - at least in a surplus. Most of us eat way more protein than we truly "need", but it's cheap insurance against losing nitrogen. I personally eat a lot more protein than this but it's because it's more filling - I have an enormous appetite and left to my own devices, I'll happily eat more than my husband - but he's bigger than me (okay, he's bigger than me NOW - I outweighed him when we married) and I want it to stay that way. My emphasis on protein helps me feel fed on fewer calories. 

I often read that on gear, the need for protein increases - I really don't think this is right. On gear, protein synthesis and "feed efficiency" are both increased.  On an unassisted cut, you need all the help you can get but overfed, and on gear? Different universe. 


Mike Mentzer advocated eating even less protein. He's dead now, but he had a SMOKIN' physique:


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## juggernaut (Nov 6, 2011)

Isn't protein synthesis better utilized on gear in terms of efficiency?


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## Built (Nov 6, 2011)

Yeah - that's what "feed efficiency" means.


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## trapzilla (Nov 6, 2011)

Heya Bob, I'm just going to comment from a BB standpoint your shooting for O stage status, correct? well so am I.

I don't think you need to focus on your arms but rather your back and delts. I think your arms look smaller in your pics than they are because your front delts are overpowering them in tour rear double bicep and front spred shots. You should bring up your rears to add fullness to the rear bicep shot (Heath talks about this). 

Additional chest work may be of benefit too but one thing at a time. 

You may not heed my advice as i'm not a competitor full stop, yet.  Look at prophysiques as you do, Kai Greene's back shots are aruguably some of the best and look at his rear delts. Phil and Kai both had poor chests, shit so did Jay and so does Flex, Bring up the chest and the rest will follow. 

just my 0.02 one thing I will say is, crazy outer sweep on your legs man, and great hams.


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