# Here is the guy I'm getting my most recent advice from.



## Johnnny (May 22, 2004)

Here is the guy I'm getting my most recent advice from. 

This picture was taken about 2 or 3 years ago when he was still competing & on steroids. He was about 215-220lbs here in this photo.

Currently I over heard him say he weighs 230lbs, but now says that he is natural & not on steroids. He is about 5ft11-6ft tall in height.

He is a fireman here in Montreal & only takes 3-4 clients a day maximum 4-5 times a week. 

What do you think of his condition here? He is in pretty good condition if you ask me.


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## P-funk (May 22, 2004)

Just because he looks good doesn't mean that he knows what the hell he is talking about.


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## Johnnny (May 22, 2004)

This isn't the type of reply I was hoping to hear. In my opinion if you look that way & have been certified for personal training, than you do know what you are talking about.

Even though he's been on drugs, to get the body he has, he still has to know what he is doing in order to grow. I see guys taking steroids (real ones) & they don't gain much as I over hear them complaining. Then I watch how they train, & then I realize this is why they aren't gaining because their training sucks.

So looking the way Arnold Schwarzenegger or Roy Callender did, you don't think they know what they are doing?

Why criticise this guy? He knows quite a bit, he's about 29yrs old & has been training since he was 15yrs old. So it's safe to say he knows what he's doing, just look at him. You don't get that way by not knowing what you're doing. Plus my gym wouldn't hire ppl for personal trainers who didn't know what they were doing.


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## P-funk (May 22, 2004)

Oh really?? I am a personal trainer and there is a guy that is a trainer at my gym.  He is a freind of mine, a really great guy.  he is big and all juiced up but guess what.....he knows absolutly shit about training people or giving advice.  A great guy, but he can't trin people for shit.  Also, if you ask him about diet or anything like that he is clueless. 

I am not critcising the guy.  He may know his shit.  All I was saying was that it means nothing by how he looks.


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## Riverdragon (May 22, 2004)

Show us some pictures of yourself in 6 months and then we will decide.


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## Arnold (May 22, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> Even though he's been on drugs, to get the body he has, he still has to know what he is doing in order to grow.



Maybe he has awesome genetics, that combined wiith drugs, and presto!


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## Johnnny (May 22, 2004)

Riverdragon what does this guy have to do with me? Nothing.
As for pics of myself, I'm waiting until I'm in the best shape possible, if I posted them now the pics would show good thickness, but a little bit of fat on the gut uncontrolably caused by my thyroid treatment which is currently on track & improving.

P-funk well it sure sounds like you were criticising him. When I see him training, he sure trains his clients well, & does a lot of similar exercises that I do.

I just wanted opinions on his physique. But currently he's not on drugs.


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## Monolith (May 22, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> This isn't the type of reply I was hoping to hear. In my opinion if you look that way & have been certified for personal training, than you do know what you are talking about.
> 
> Even though he's been on drugs, to get the body he has, he still has to know what he is doing in order to grow. I see guys taking steroids (real ones) & they don't gain much as I over hear them complaining. Then I watch how they train, & then I realize this is why they aren't gaining because their training sucks.
> ...



Translation:

I dont give a shit about educating myself on proper diet/routine/supplementation.  I prefer to find someone who looks good and ingest as much of their random bullshit as i can, hoping for the best.


GOOD LUCK DUED!!


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## P-funk (May 22, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> Riverdragon what does this guy have to do with me? Nothing.
> As for pics of myself, I'm waiting until I'm in the best shape possible, if I posted them now the pics would show good thickness, but a little bit of fat on the gut uncontrolably caused by my thyroid treatment which is currently on track & improving.
> 
> ...




A) I wasn't criticizing him

b) just because he is not (or claims he is not) on drugs right now means nothing to me.  In my opinion once you go on there is no going back.

c) if he does similiar exercises as you then why are you wasting you money.  why not write your own diet and training routine instead of paying someone to do it for you?


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## Johnnny (May 22, 2004)

Monolith can't you read? One he is currently not on drugs & is training hard naturally & 2 even if you are on drugs you still have to know what you are doing & train hard & 3 like I said in my recent response I just wanted onpinions on his physique. Even if he has been on drugs at one time, he still knows what he is doing. I see guys who take drugs & don't get much results because they don't know what they are doing.

But he's not on drugs right now, so I if he's managing to keep up a physique such as this one, than I think he knows what he is doing.

He's also a fireman not that it has anything to do with it, but being a fireman you have to be smart or you could get killed.

Oh & it's spelled dude, not dued.


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## P-funk (May 22, 2004)

Man, why are you getting so defensive??? No one said that the guy looks bad.  He looks like he has some really good conditioning!!!  I think everyone would agree with that.  All we are saying is that conditioning does not equate knowledge.


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## Johnnny (May 22, 2004)

P-funk I'm not paying him nor do I train with him, he gives me some advice for free because I've known him since 1998.

& currently I believe he is more natural not on drugs now as even though he is big, he doesn't posses the ripped to shreds with mass body that he had about 3-4 yrs ago. It's more natural looking.

But again I just wanted opinions on his physique whether he's on drugs or not.


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## Johnnny (May 22, 2004)

Like I also said he's been training since he was around 14 or 15yrs old & is now 29yrs old so he's learned a lot over this period of time.


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## Monolith (May 22, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> Monolith can't you read? One he is currently not on drugs & is training hard naturally & 2 even if you are on drugs you still have to know what you are doing & train hard & 3 like I said in my recent response I just wanted onpinions on his physique. Even if he has been on drugs at one time, he still knows what he is doing. I see guys who take drugs & don't get much results because they don't know what they are doing.
> 
> But he's not on drugs right now, so I if he's managing to keep up a physique such as this one, than I think he knows what he is doing.
> ...



And ive seen guys not take drugs and have phenomenal results.  Go look at P-Funks journal if you dont believe me.

And what in the hell is this "firemen have to be smart or they die" crap?  Is that your bizarre logic for trusting this guy to train you?  "HEY GUYS, HE HASNT BEEN BURNED ALIVE YET, SO HE MUST KNOW HOW TO TRAIN ME REAL GOOD!!"




> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> Oh & it's spelled dude, not dued.



How many times do you have to feel that *WHOOOSH* go over your head before the concept of sarcasm starts to click?


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## Johnnny (May 22, 2004)

Monolith I don't know what your problem is, but I think your attitude sucks. I don't know maybe it's because this guy has a better physique than you? I'm not ashamed to admit that he has a better physique than me with more size.

As for needing to be smart being a fireman? He's told me several stories about guys he's worked with & their idiotic way of doing things & getting hurt themselves on the job.

All I'm saying is this guy is smart in the gym & doing field work.

Like I also said already I don't pay this guy to train me or does he train with me at all. He gives me some free advice periodically about routines, form, & exercises.

I don't understand what any of you have against this guy?This is a bodybuilding forum right? & in this forum we discuss physiques, training, & diet etc....? Well I just thought it would be interesting to show a picture of some of the guys that I get my advice from & show their size/condition whether they're on drugs or not. That simple. 

I just wanted opinions on this guy's physique, none of this BS or wasted space.


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## Johnnny (May 22, 2004)

So no one has any positive feedback on this guy's physique eh?

Too bad. Personally whether on drugs or not he has good size at 215-220lbs here in this picture around 2001. Now he's around 230lbs & has told me he's been off steroids well over a year & doesn't plan on going back on them again.

Like I said I believe he's not on steroids as even though he still has good size & conditioning, he doesn't have the same body that he had a few years ago while on steroids. & so far he hasn't steared me wrong in the advice he's given me.

You can really see a difference in someone's physique when they're on steroids, & when the come off steroids, it's really not the same physique at all even if they still have good muscle size & some cuts.


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## LAM (May 22, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by P-funk *_
> Just because he looks good doesn't mean that he knows what the hell he is talking about.



ditto...

I know tons of people that compete that don't know jack about the science behind nutrtion, supplementation or various training systems...

shit my roommate used to compete for 8 years.  I asked him one day why he throws out all of his egg yolks.  I told him that 50% of the protein in eggs was in the yolk he almost shit himself, and he's 42...


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## LAM (May 22, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> So no one has any positive feedback on this guy's physique eh?
> 
> Too bad. Personally whether on drugs or not he has good size at 215-220lbs here in this picture around 2001. Now he's around 230lbs & has told me he's been off steroids well over a year & doesn't plan on going back on them again.
> ...



the guy does have a decent physique. but many people are better at bodybuilding than giving information.

IMO...how a person looks off gear depends on how the looked before they started.  I've met tons of guys over the years who's physiques have been 90% gear, as they really had no base before they started using.  if you had a GREAT physique before you started  using gear it will be there when you are off gear...


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## Vale Tudo (May 22, 2004)

i think the problem here is that when you first read the thread (I did this too) We all just assumed that you were being trained by a this guys, and that you picked him becasue of how he looked. (but this is obviously not what ius going on)  I agree with everyone, that how you look has nothing to do with whats going on upstairs.  But like you said Johnny, you know him and he knows his shit, so I say great man, feed off the guy as much as you can.  And to answer the first question, yeah man I think the guy looks great, I am at 230 and am not nearly as ripped as him and would love to be.  If he knew his shit well enough to make me look like that I would listen to everything the guy has to say!


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## Johnnny (May 22, 2004)

LAM 





> shit my roommate used to compete for 8 years. I asked him one day why he throws out all of his egg yolks. I told him that 50% of the protein in eggs was in the yolk he almost shit himself, and he's 42...



The reason for that is that there is also alot of cholesterol & fat in the egg yolks which is why many ppl seperate them & even by pure egg whites in a carton. If you're eating 6 egg whites or more at a time a day, it's not healthy eating 6 egg yolks a day. That's why you don't want the yolk protein or not.



> I know tons of people that compete that don't know jack about the science behind nutrtion, supplementation or various training systems...
> [/qoute]
> Well if they're competing, then they must know something as they're doing something write. Everybody who compete's knows how important food is, or they wouldn't have the pyhsique that they do.
> 
> ...


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## LAM (May 22, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> 
> The reason for that is that there is also alot of cholesterol & fat in the egg yolks which is why many ppl seperate them & even by pure egg whites in a carton. If you're eating 6 egg whites or more at a time a day, it's not healthy eating 6 egg yolks a day. That's why you don't want the yolk protein or not.



I KNOW why people seperate the yolks and actually ALL of the fat and cholesterol is in the yolk.  we already know that dietary cholesterol intake has very little effect on total cholesterol values, genetics determines 80% of that.

there is also nothing wrong with consuming 6 or more whole eggs a day.  I've been doing it my whole life and my total cholesterol ranges from 120-140...cholesterol is not BAD, it is the the ratio of HDL:LDL that is important...


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## Johnnny (May 22, 2004)

LAM 





> there is also nothing wrong with consuming 6 or more whole eggs a day. I've been doing it my whole life and my total cholesterol ranges from 120-140...cholesterol is not BAD, it is the the ratio of HDL:LDL that is important...



Well it may catch up with you when you're older. I wouldn't do it.

Now back on track what are your opinions on this guys physique in this picture? Currently he's a bit bigger & still holds good condition, but not as ripped or hard as he used to be which is one element to someone taking steroids or not.


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## P-funk (May 22, 2004)

> but not as ripped or hard as he used to be which is one element to someone taking steroids or not.



Not neccesarily.  This can also be an element of someone not being as lean as they used to be.


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## JLB001 (May 22, 2004)

Myself, I wouldn't pick a trainer just on how they USE to look.  I would want to know his background and the clients that he has successfully trained in reaching their goals and if they maintained those goals.      To me what matters more is if you stick to the plan that is laid out for you and you follow it to a T.  If you don't, your results won't be what you expect, therefore you will think he is a crappy trainer, etc when it is in fact its the trainees lack of being disciplined.


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## Mudge (May 22, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> Why criticise this guy?



Do you even READ the posts people make? You put words into my mouth and not P-funk's. He never critcised him at all, he stated a FACT. You dont have to know what you are doing to look good.

Chances are high that he definitely knows what he is doing, but there was zero criticism here.



> _*Originally posted by P-funk *_
> Just because he looks good doesn't mean that he knows what the hell he is talking about.


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## Mudge (May 22, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> Well it may catch up with you when you're older. I wouldn't do it.



No it does not.

http://www.mercola.com/2002/jul/3/infants_eggs.htm
http://www.mercola.com/2002/jul/6/biotin.htm


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## Mudge (May 22, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> Riverdragon what does this guy have to do with me? Nothing.



If he is training you, then his comment was completely valid.



> I just wanted opinions on his physique. But currently he's not on drugs.



Yeah sure, me neither. Do you really think he would jump out and tell you he was using? How stupid do you think the guy is?


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## Riverdragon (May 22, 2004)

My point was that if he is a good trainer then you should post some pics later so that we can see your progress. Your first post just seemed like you were saying this: "this guy that is training me is (or was) big so that means I am going to huge"


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## Mudge (May 22, 2004)

A good trainer is not just someone who knows how to manipulate their own body to success, but that of their client's.


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## aztecwolf (May 22, 2004)

Why is this even a thread??


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## Johnnny (May 22, 2004)

Mudge I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth. P-Funk made it sound like he was criticising him.

You all still misunderstand. I'm not training with him, nor do I pay him for any advice. He knows me & gives me advice once in awhile because he knows me.

The way he looks now is still in good shape with even a bit more size but natural. As he's not as ripped as he always was when on drugs.

As for knowing his sh!t he does just as I said he has taken a personal training certification course from Roy Callender & an exam which tests his knowledge on all the science behind training, diet & everything else that's important. The clients I've seen him train usually end up getting in very good shape or muscle depending on what their goals are. 

When I first saw this one 45yr old male client of his who just started last summer has cut down & put on a descent amount of muscle.

aztecwolf as for this being a thread, all I wanted was ppl's feed back on his physique drugs or not. In return all this BS became of it.

Let's get this straight. I don't train with him. I don't pay him for advice. He gives me advice for free every so often on routines, exercises, form & diet because he knows me. & the last couple of years, he's been training naturally & still holding good size & condition although not as ripped as in the photo from a few yrs ago. He always puts his clients goals first & puts the proper routines & diet plans into motion to help his clients achieve their goals. 

I hope this straightens everything out.


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## aztecwolf (May 22, 2004)

alright he has a good physique, lets move on


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## Arnold (May 23, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> Well it may catch up with you when you're older. I wouldn't do it.



Avoiding eggs, or large quantities of eggs, due to the dietary cholesterol they posses having an effect on blood cholesterol levels is one of the dumbest myths that the medical community started, and it is just that a stupid MYTH.

We strive to debunk stupid myths like that, please do not perpetuate them here. 

The main reason that bodybuilders avoid egg yolks is because of the fat content, most of us are not interested in high fat diets.


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## Johnnny (May 23, 2004)

Robert DiMaggio so there's no problem eating 6 or more egg yolk's a day?


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## P-funk (May 23, 2004)

when bulking I eat anywhere form 8-10 yolks


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## Arnold (May 23, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> Robert DiMaggio so there's no problem eating 6 or more egg yolk's a day?



there would be for me because that is too much fat, otherwise no there is nothing wrong with that.


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## Johnnny (May 23, 2004)

Robert DiMaggio 





> there would be for me because that is too much fat



So you do agree that that many egg yolks a day would be high in fat right? 

If I eat egg whites this is one of the main reasons I buy the egg whites already seperated.


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## gr81 (May 23, 2004)

Jesus Christ Johnny just shut the fuck up. WHHHOOOOOOOOOO CARES?? why the hell do you want to know what we think about someone elses physique, especially if he isn't your trainier and has no real relationship to you? You have the dumbest most insignifigant posts and comments. So you know a guy that is ripped and has muscle and has done steroids, WTF!? The only possible reason you have dragged this thread on so long must be that you are fuckin this guy, is that it? By the way can I ask what this thread has to do with training?


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## supertech (May 23, 2004)




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## Arnold (May 23, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> So you do agree that that many egg yolks a day would be high in fat right?



yes, for me it would be.


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## Johnnny (May 24, 2004)

gr81 You are a complet Ahole & has a major attitude problem. Why don't you take your own advice & 





> just shut the fuck up



Robert DiMaggio you are a moderator. Isn't this sort of thing frowned upon here? Insulting other ppl? I don't appreciate gr81's remarks. I haven't insulted anyone.

gr81 





> The only possible reason you have dragged this thread on so long must be that you are fuckin this guy, is that it?



Actually for your information I'm in a perfectly happy relationship with a beautiful woman. Can I say the same for you gr81? I'm not sure. Maybe you brought this up because he's physically appealing to you I don't know.

This is a bodybuilding forum right? Generally the ppl here are bodybuilders right? Generally bodybuilders discuss eachother's physiques. If you're reading a bodybuilding magazine like Flex which has alot of bodybuilders pictures in it for viewers to look at. If you tell your body check out Dorian Yates's back it's damn huge & ripped does that mean that you want to bang Dorian Yates? For you gr81 maybe, but for most ppl you are just admiring a great physique as you yourself are trying to develop one as well.

Like I've said from the beginning, I just wanted some opinions on his physique as he came in 3rd in his contest when I think he should've one. The person who one was shorter, smaller but because he was smaller more ripped & won at 180lbs when he came in ripped at 215lbs or so.


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## DimebagDarrell (May 24, 2004)

ok, first of all, YOU were the first person to freak out here.  everybody else understood what p-funk meant except you.  you have a real problem communicating.  may i quote you:



> They say 1gram of protein per 1lb of body weight to grow. From my experience, that is just enough to maintain your body size.
> 
> To grow you would do like this: if you weigh 155lbs you need 170grams of protein a day. If you weigh 250lbs you need 265grams of protein a day.
> 
> I believe to grow you need 3 or more grams of protein per 1lb of body weight.



that's from this thread.  after someone pointed out to you that your statement didnt make sense, you got all sorts of pissed off.  so knock it off, picking electronic fights with other people on the internet is just plain stupid.  settle down and think about what youre saying first


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## Johnnny (May 24, 2004)

DimebagDarrell what you quoted here isn't even in this thread, so why bring it up here? 

I'm not picking fights with anyone, here 
gr81 started up with me.

As for misunderstanding ppl on internet forums, it can happen very easily. Sometimes ppl write something & don't clearify their purpose for writing what they write. 

It's no big deal. Like I said P-funk made it sound like he was criticising, if he wasn't no big deal it's cool.

But when ppl like gr81 make statements as he has, than I have every right to get PO'd.


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## Spitfire (May 24, 2004)

This thread took a turn for the worst.
Does this guy remind anyone of JonhK?


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## Johnnny (May 24, 2004)

Spitfire are you talking about me? But I do agree with about this thread taking a turn for the worst.

The whole point of this thread was just to get ppl's opinions on this guy's physique whether he's on drug's or not. That's it that's all I wanted out of this thread as this is a bodybuilding forum.


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## Spitfire (May 24, 2004)

And yes I was talking about you, I dont think I meant any offense by it, buy you seem very simular.
As for him being on drugs or not, I dont know, nor do I think anyone could tell bu lookong at him. Sorry


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## Johnnny (May 24, 2004)

Spitfire well I'm not this JohnK. Sorry to disappoint you.


But you didn't give his opinion about his physique? Well?


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## Mudge (May 24, 2004)

3 grams of more of protein per pound? Thats crazy, 3 is the most I've heard of from a juiced bulk cycle.


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## Johnnny (May 24, 2004)

Mudge what I mean is if you weigh 165lbs you should be taking in 180grams of protein a day, if you weigh 205lbs you should be getting 220 grams of protein a day, if you weigh 260lbs you should be getting 275grams of protein a day to grow.  

Pretty simple. Not so out of the ordinary. I know a guy who's 195lbs at 5ft9 & eats 260grams of protein a day, personally I think he's over doing it.


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## ZECH (May 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gr81 *_
> Jesus Christ Johnny just shut the fuck up. WHHHOOOOOOOOOO CARES?? why the hell do you want to know what we think about someone elses physique, especially if he isn't your trainier and has no real relationship to you? You have the dumbest most insignifigant posts and comments. So you know a guy that is ripped and has muscle and has done steroids, WTF!? The only possible reason you have dragged this thread on so long must be that you are fuckin this guy, is that it? By the way can I ask what this thread has to do with training?


Damn! I actually agree with everything gr81 just said! 
There are people on this board who have NEVER taken steriods and are bigger than this guy. Size does not mean anything when it comes to knowledge, just as P-Funk said.


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## Johnnny (May 24, 2004)

dg806 sorry to hear that. Well right now this guy is about 235lbs & still pretty lean, but not as ripped as in the picture at 215-220lbs. 

But currently he's natural. He stopped a couple of years ago taking steroids.


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## nikegurl (May 24, 2004)

And I agree with dg806 who agrees with every work gr81 said.  

wave2: gr81 )

Johnny - maybe you should ask yourself why so MANY of your threads seem to take a turn for the worse.

On this one you said the guy was helping you and what do we think of his physique.  The response everyone is giving you is that those things have nothing to do with eachother.  He can look great and be of absolutely no use or assistance to anyone else.  

That's not the sam as us saying he doesn't know anything.

What people are trying to tell you is that the connection you are trying to draw between his physique and his ability to train others is nonexistent.

Your logic is faulty and you get very defensive when people point that out to you.  If that's the case... you shouldn't ask for opinions.


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## Dale Mabry (May 24, 2004)

I get what Johnny is saying, he is just saying it wrong.  The equation would be...

Protein=1g/lb bodyweight+3gx(multiple of 50 lbs)

So

Protein for a 200 lbs male the multiple of 50lbs is 4 so...

200g+3g(4)=212g

I have absolutely no idea where this number could be extracted from and would see very little difference between it and 200g, especially considering most are not ultra precise in what they intake anyway.

Oh, and one other thing.  If you have EVER used gear you can never use the term natural, but that is my opinion only.


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## nikegurl (May 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> Oh, and one other thing.  If you have EVER used gear you can never use the term natural, but that is my opinion only.



I completely agree.


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## Johnnny (May 24, 2004)

Dale Mabry I guess my calculations were a little off.

nikegurl sorry you feel that way. I was just showing a pic of this guy who was giving me some "free" advice nor was he training me.

& I just wanted to know what ppl thought of his physique that's all. Pretty simple request if you ask me. I never implied that I was taking his advice because of how he looks. I just wanted to here what ppl thought of his physique.

The type's of replies I was expecting to hear was, yeah he's pretty ripped, or he looks like he has good mass & power along with his condition. Or ppl asking me questions on how much he lifts to go with his size. 

If someone else would've posted the same thread as this one, I would've answered it with one of the replies as above with no confusion.

After all as I said this is a bodybuidling discussion forum & one thing that is discussed are individuals physiques. That's why they have so many pics in magazines for the viewers to look at & say this & that about someone's physique.


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## Johnnny (May 24, 2004)

Dale Mabry I do agree & see where you're coming from, but what if the person stops using juice & never touches it again for the rest of his life? Is he not training natural all the years following his juice habits?


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## Dale Mabry (May 24, 2004)

Doesn't matter.  We are at an age now where you can keep a large majority of your gains after using juice.  If you do a cycle, you are not natural.


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## Mudge (May 24, 2004)

You can never again say you are natural if you have juiced, IMO. If nothing else then due to the small amounts of hyperplasia that comes with using test/GH (test can stimulate GH output).


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## Saturday Fever (May 24, 2004)

> If nothing else then due to the small amounts of hyperplasia that comes with using test/GH (test can stimulate GH output).



Got links to studies on this? I'd be real interested to read them.


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## Mudge (May 24, 2004)

On which exactly, test stimulating GH or?


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## Saturday Fever (May 24, 2004)

That hyperplasia comes with using test/GH. Sorry, I should have been more specific.


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## Arnold (May 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> You can never again say you are natural if you have juiced, IMO. If nothing else then due to the small amounts of hyperplasia that comes with using test/GH (test can stimulate GH output).



You cannot claim "lifetime natural status", but you can claim that you are "now" natural.

There is still going to be a big difference in a physique of someone who juiced in the past, but no longer juices, especially if they compete. Contest dieting and getting ripped is one of the hardest things to do naturally, drugs help the pros tremendously in retaining the muscle mass and getting shredded.


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## Mudge (May 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Saturday Fever *_
> That hyperplasia comes with using test/GH. Sorry, I should have been more specific.



Test is the only one that should be called into question, with a quick search I was able to dig up a couple:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15001624

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14960025

GH is a given.



> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> You cannot claim "lifetime natural status", but you can claim that you are "now" natural.



I can go along with that.


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## Johnnny (May 24, 2004)

But like my question states, if someone permanently stops using juice at the age of 25 or 30yrs old or whatever age & never uses them ever again for the rest of his life than that is training naturally? As the hormones & compounds are surely completely out of the persons system. So they have no steroids or extra hormones in the body to help them. They surely have lost some size & strength & are just relying on food & possibly supplements. Just as a person who never took steroids would.

I agree that while he is taking steroids he isn't natural at all. But like I said if the individual permanently stops his juice use, than he or she is training just like the rest of us with no help.

That is my opinion.


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## Mudge (May 24, 2004)

It is training naturally but I believe it will help take the body beyond points that person would have been able to reach without ever having touched gear.


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## Johnnny (May 24, 2004)

Yes Mudge I agree, but when a steroid user permanently stops using steroids, than he is training naturally.


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## gr81 (May 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> wave2: gr81 )




hey cutie, How Yooouuu doin today?


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## gr81 (May 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> You can never again say you are natural if you have juiced, IMO. If nothing else then due to the small amounts of hyperplasia that comes with using test/GH (test can stimulate GH output).




Mudge, I have to gracefully but strongly disagree with you on this here. I consider myself completely natural and I have done a very unsuccessful cycle, probably mostly bunk. I was just about as heavy before I got on as I ever was on, and now I am like 20 lbs lighter than that.  IMO you are not a steroid user until you have done 3 or 4 major cycles. the shit is out of your system so quickly, doing one measily cycle doesn't make you a gearhead by any means


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## PreMier (May 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gr81 *_
> Jesus Christ Johnny just shut the fuck up. WHHHOOOOOOOOOO CARES?? why the hell do you want to know what we think about someone elses physique, especially if he isn't your trainier and has no real relationship to you? You have the dumbest most insignifigant posts and comments. So you know a guy that is ripped and has muscle and has done steroids, WTF!? The only possible reason you have dragged this thread on so long must be that you are fuckin this guy, is that it? By the way can I ask what this thread has to do with training?




Thats the funniest shit I have read in a ling time!   Nice one partna!


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## Johnnny (May 24, 2004)

PreMier yeah that's funny to you? I guess you didn't read what I replied?


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## Johnnny (May 24, 2004)

Here is my reply 



> This is a bodybuilding forum right? Generally the ppl here are bodybuilders right? Generally bodybuilders discuss eachother's physiques. If you're reading a bodybuilding magazine like Flex which has alot of bodybuilders pictures in it for viewers to look at. If you tell your body check out Dorian Yates's back it's damn huge & ripped does that mean that you want to bang Dorian Yates? For you gr81 maybe, but for most ppl you are just admiring a great physique as you yourself are trying to develop one as well.



Anyway that's the reality.


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## PreMier (May 24, 2004)

Yea, it was funny.  Your reply was not.

To me, it seems that you are quite insecure with yourself.  Before you go off on some shpiel on whatever it is you say, think about it.  You are constantly repeating yourself, and putting words into others mouths.  You start disecting things, and try to fint alternative meanings.  I just dont see the point in it.


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## Mindless (May 24, 2004)

I love you guys.


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## Mudge (May 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gr81 *_
> I was just about as heavy before I got on as I ever was on, and now I am like 20 lbs lighter than that. IMO you are not a steroid user until you have done 3 or 4 major cycles.



Bro with the doses you advocate, you have probably already run my next 8 cycles for me. 

If you diet right, you wont lose weight if you desire not to lose it. When I came off my last cycle I dieted down about 10 pounds in total, by slowly cutting calories during my off time.


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## Johnnny (May 24, 2004)

PreMier I'm not putting words into anyone's mouth's. Nor am I insecure about anything. But When stupidity such as gr81 comes out, it needs to be replied to accordingly.

If ppl don't clearify what they really mean, than misunderstandings can happen very easily. I've seen a few posts in the past were you've misunderstood ppl & thought that they said one thing, but meant something else. So it happens to all of us.

I'm not trying to disect anything.

Like I said I just wanted ppl's opinion's on his physique as he is a body builder & this is a body building forum.

I was expecting to hear replies like "yeah he does have very good conditioning", "he's got pretty good development", "He's developed good size with his shape", or "overall he's pretty well proportioned". 

These were the types of replies I was hoping to hear about his physique, not most of this nonsense that's been going on. If someone else posted a thread such as this one, I would have posted one of the above replies & not criticism.


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## aztecwolf (May 24, 2004)

Shannon is getting a headache


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## Johnnny (May 24, 2004)

aztecwolf who is Shannon? But I know what you mean about getting a headache. Like I said, almost all of these replies I didn't expect.


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## aztecwolf (May 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by aztecwolf *_
> Shannon is getting a headache


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## aztecwolf (May 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> aztecwolf who is Shannon? But I know what you mean about getting a headache. Like I said, almost all of these replies I didn't expect.


that be me


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## Johnnny (May 24, 2004)

aztecwolf 





> that be me



Oh. Well the headaches been cauesed by some of the ridiculous replies if you ask me. Like I said above, those were the types of replies I was expecting to get. Not the non sense that's been going on. 

I just wanted opinions on his physique, that's all.


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## PreMier (May 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> I just wanted opinions on his physique, that's all.



We might be learning here   The types of questions that you ask, dictate the answers that you recieve.  KISS.  Keep It Simple Stupid.


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## gr81 (May 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by PreMier *_
> Thats the funniest shit I have read in a ling time!   Nice one partna!



ha ha,  I just can't believe that no one else said it before me. He just goes on and on, constantly contradicting himself and appearing to be the most insecure, nitpicker on earth. Johnny, no one is taking this thread serious b/c it sounds like you are trying to be cool by association. "I know this guy thats in great shape, hooray for me." that type of shit. That may not b/c the case (although I bet it is)  but thats how you come across bro. You seem to be extremely anal and neurotic dude, calm down for christs sake and stop getting so worked up over useless shit. then maybe people will take you more seriously b/c now they sure don't!



> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> Bro with the doses you advocate, you have probably already run my next 8 cycles for me.
> 
> If you diet right, you wont lose weight if you desire not to lose it. When I came off my last cycle I dieted down about 10 pounds in total, by slowly cutting calories during my off time.




I lost weight b/c of outstanding circumstances that kept me out of teh gym for a few months, plus I am certain that what I was running was not legit, or at least most of it, which would account for the crazy doses. I understand all what you are saying  mudge and partially agree. My point was just that 1 steroid cycle doesn't necessarily make someone some big steroid user IMO. It takes extended use for that classification. You are right about the diet  thou.


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## Johnnny (May 25, 2004)

gr81 





> He just goes on and on, constantly contradicting himself and appearing to be the most insecure, nitpicker on earth.



I'm not insecure about anything nor am I a nitpicker. What are you 80yrs old? Nor an I insecure about anything. I have a lot of confidence in myself. But when ppl leave responses such as yours, it deserves a reply as your reply was uncalled for & unnecessary.

gr81 





> I know this guy thats in great shape, hooray for me." that type of shit. That may not b/c the case (although I bet it is) but thats how you come across bro. You seem to be extremely anal and neurotic dude, calm down



No that's not what I'm doing at all hooray for me crap. Like I said in my very first post I said 





> What do you think of his condition here? He is in pretty good condition if you ask me.


That's what I wanted to know from the beginning. I also just said a little bit about his life & that he has actually competed & won a contest & came 2nd & 3rd in some a couple of others. Like I've said from the beginning I wanted some opinions of his physique drugs or not.

Even though he's been on drugs (not currently & slightly bigger with condition, but not as ripped & follows an amazing diet) I still he think he knows what he's doing even though this isn't the subject at hand. Arnold, Franco & Lou even with their steroids couldn't have built their bodies the way they did without hard work, strict diet, & knowing what they're doing.

As in an above post, almost none of the replies that have been posted, I was expecting to here. I wouldn't have gotten slightly worked up if ppl had responded the way they did. I'm reacting to these responses including yours gr81. 

I'm surprised ppl haven't responded commenting on his physique, hardly any replies commented his physique. I wouldn't have asked what you think of his physique if that wasn't my intention.


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## JerseyDevil (May 25, 2004)

Anyone else notice that almost ALL of Johnnny's threads seem to go the same way.  Just ignore this instigator.  Heck, he can't even spell his own name right. 

Not sure if it's true but when "Johnnny" first arrived here, someone (forget who) said to watch out for this guy because he has been banned from several other boards.  I wonder why? Can you say troll?


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## Mudge (May 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gr81 *_
> My point was just that 1 steroid cycle doesn't necessarily make someone some big steroid user IMO.



Yep, only in the eyes of the public would someone be some big hardcore drug freak after a cycle or two.


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## Johnnny (May 25, 2004)

JerseyDevil 





> Heck, he can't even spell his own name right.



Are yout that dense? Do you really think I can't spell my own name right? The username Johnny was already taken, so I had to put 3 N's in it. Next time think before you criticise.



> Anyone else notice that almost ALL of Johnnny's threads seem to go the same way. Just ignore this instigator



So far there have only been a couple, a couple of threads that have gone sour. I'm not an instigator in any way. I guess you can't read as I explained my intentions of this thread right above yours. There was some misunderstanding of the thread as ppl thought I was paying this guy for advice just b/c of how he looks. I should've been more clear to avoid the misunderstandings.
But I've said it before & I'll say it again, I just wanted some opinions on this guy's physique. So you really should think before you criticise someone.

So back on track drugs or not, what do you think of this guys condition & size?


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## JerseyDevil (May 25, 2004)

You are truly thick... and I don't mean that as a compliment.

So I take it you _have_ been banned at other sites, given your lack of comment.  That's all I need to know.  Pssst, I was poking fun about your name moron.



> So back on track drugs or not, what do you think of this guys condition & size?


So 86 posts later, you are still on it. It's pretty obvious to me you like to stir shit.  And I disagree.  Many of your threads turn into argumentative garbage.


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## Dale Mabry (May 25, 2004)

Here is my take on the natural issue.

Say you are running a marathon.  10 miles in you get tired and hop on a truck for a mile or 2.  You regain your wind and then run the remaining 14 miles on your own.  Have you run a marathon?  Because you only rode on a truck for 2 miles and now you are running the final 14 miles, are you no longer cheating?

That's my take.  (The mention of cheating in this example in no way a metaphor for using steroids as being a form of cheating, BTW.)


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## Johnnny (May 25, 2004)

JerseyDevil I thick you are the one who is thick, & not body wise. In the head. It's ppl like you that turn threads into arguments & insulting matches.



> So I take it you have been banned at other sites, given your lack of comment. That's all I need to know.


As for being banned, it was only one site & I was banned b/c the head moderator was an idiotic jackass who let flaming & insult matches go on & on between ppl. He let even site moderators insult other ppl when they're supposed to be setting a good example, not throwing insults back & forth. I was only involved in a few of these. & I wasn't the only one banned from the site for this. & the only reason I insulted anyone is b/c ppl like would instigate arugements for no reason & I'd defend myself when I should've been more mature than them & ignore their candy ass.

Like I said it's only a couple of threads that have gone sour b/c of ppl like you. If ppl would stay on topic like giving their opinions on this guys physique, than there would be no arguements.



> It's pretty obvious to me you like to stir shit. And I disagree. Many of your threads turn into argumentative garbage.



No you've got it backwards dude, I'm not the one who likes to stir up trouble in polite terms. There's a couple of ppl here as you've seen who like to stri up trouble which turn into arguements.

Like I keep saying & explaining my intentions for starting this thread which is hear your opinions on his physique that's all. I don't want any arguements going back & forth. I simply want to hear opinions on his physique. That's all a simple request.


Dale Mabry I agree with you.


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## Novo (May 25, 2004)

I just can't help myself ... I'm trying, but my fingers keep typing!

Johnnnnnny,  Honestly, it's been fun, I'm still laughing at the whole thread, but you MUST see it's time to stop asking for opinions of the damn trainer?!!

Let it go, it's time


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## Johnnny (May 25, 2004)

Anway I'd really like to hear what you think of his physique which is all I wanted in the first place.

Personally drugs or not he has very good conditioning for 215lbs contest weight at 5ft10inches. I think he also has good thickness in his back, legs, chest, & shoulders.


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## Johnnny (May 25, 2004)

If ppl would just give their opinions on him then it would be the end of it. Like I've said from the beginning, that's all I wanted to hear.


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## JerseyDevil (May 25, 2004)

To answer your question, his condition looks excellent.

Now here is my question is to you.  You ask us our opinion on this guy's condition.  You want us to evaluate his condition by looking at his business card with a picture of him when he was doing steroids.  Johnny, you see this guy on a regular basis. You are in a FAR better position it evaluate his physique.  You can't form your own opinion?


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## nikegurl (May 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> Anway I'd really like to hear what you think of his physique which is all I wanted in the first place.



Why?  Seriously.  Why do you want people's opinions on this guy's physique?  As Jersey pointed out - you're in the best position to judge it.  If everyone says they're not impressed will you change your mind?  If everyone says he's in great shape will that matter?  He isn't a member here and he isn't a known bodybuilder so it's probably hard for people to particularly care.


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## Johnnny (May 25, 2004)

JerseyDevil 





> To answer your question, his condition looks excellent.


 Thank you, that's the type of response I was looking for.



> Now here is my question is to you. You ask us our opinion on this guy's condition. You want us to evaluate his condition by looking at his business card with a picture of him when he was doing steroids. Johnny, you see this guy on a regular basis. You are in a FAR better position it evaluate his physique. You can't form your own opinion?


 I agree with you, but i just wanted to hear your opinions on his competition shape that's all. But I do see him at least twice a week & I must say that he is about 15lbs heavier since this pic a couple of years ago while on steroids but is "natural" now no juice & he still looks good & has good power & is still pretty lean, but not as ripped as in the picture.


nikegurl


> Why? Seriously. Why do you want people's opinions on this guy's physique? As Jersey pointed out - you're in the best position to judge it. If everyone says they're not impressed will you change your mind? If everyone says he's in great shape will that matter? He isn't a member here and he isn't a known bodybuilder so it's probably hard for people to particularly care.



I realize he's not a known bodybuilder, but that's why I wanted ppl's opinions as known bodybuilders are all over the magazines for ppl everywhere to see them. As there are many unknown bodybuilders with great physiques steroids or not. I just wanted to hear your opinions on this bodybuilder/fireman as I personally think he has a great physique steroids or not that's all.


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## CowPimp (May 25, 2004)

Someone should just lock this thread.  We need insurance that the madness will stop.


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## Johnnny (May 25, 2004)

CowPimp 





> Someone should just lock this thread. We need insurance that the madness will stop.



Why should it be? Can't you just give your opinion on his physique? Is that too much to ask for any of you?


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## rockcrest (May 25, 2004)

"Anway I'd really like to hear what you think of his physique which is all I wanted in the first place."


johnnny-who cares about his physique?  you act like he is the only person to carry lean muscle.  let it die.


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## nikegurl (May 25, 2004)

he looks fine but i'm willing to guess every single one of us can find someone at our own gym who looks as good or better.


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## Johnnny (May 25, 2004)

rockcrest 





> johnnny-who cares about his physique? you act like he is the only person to carry lean muscle. let it die.



No that's no it at all. I know there's many other ppl with lean muscle. Like I said he's not a known bodybuilder & I just wanted to hear some opinions on his physique.

rockcrest you know the time you took to write that, you could've commented his physique instead.

I don't see why it is too much to ask of ppl. So what I'm asking for your opinions on his physique big deal.

If someone else posted the same reply I would've commented his physique. Plain & simple.


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## Johnnny (May 25, 2004)

nikegurl 





> he looks fine but i'm willing to guess every single one of us can find someone at our own gym who looks as good or better.



Thank you, but you don't have any detailed opinions on his conditioning or mass? But I do agree with you about each of you finding someone looking as good or better in your own gyms.

Every gym has at least one or 2 guys such as this. Sometimes more.


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## nikegurl (May 25, 2004)

conditioning looks good.  nice abs.  i'd like to see more leg size. 

still don't know why it's such a big deal deal to you to find out what we think of this guy.


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## rockcrest (May 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> 
> 
> rockcrest you know the time you took to write that, you could've commented his physique instead.



it speaks for itself now get off his nuts


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## nikegurl (May 25, 2004)

oh...johnny, one more thing.  you keep saying if someone else had posted this you would have commented on his physique as asked.

i can't imagine anyone else posting something like this to begin with.


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## Johnnny (May 25, 2004)

nikegurl 





> conditioning looks good. nice abs. i'd like to see more leg size.



Thank you for your reply I appreciate it. Well as that pic was a couple of years ago his legs have developed more since then.



> conditioning looks good. nice abs. i'd like to see more leg size.


It's not a big deal, I just posted the pic to get some feed back on his physique that's. Since he's not in any magazines you probably haven't seen him before.

rockcrest


> it speaks for itself now get off his nuts


Again the time you took to write that nonsense you could've commented his physique. As for getting my nuts off I don't know what you're talking about as my lady does a perfect job on that.


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## Johnnny (May 25, 2004)

nikegurl 





> oh...johnny, one more thing. you keep saying if someone else had posted this you would have commented on his physique as asked.
> i can't imagine anyone else posting something like this to begin with.



Well there's a first time for everything & I'm glad I was here to break the ice.

I still think it's a harmless thread, just wanted opinions on his physique that's all.


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## gr81 (May 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> oh...johnny, one more thing.  you keep saying if someone else had posted this you would have commented on his physique as asked.
> 
> i can't imagine anyone else posting something like this to begin with.




HA ha ha, Bingo!


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## Johnnny (May 25, 2004)

gr81 I've seen a few things around here posted by others that I'm sure some would find abnormal.

But personally I don't see anything abnormal about wanting to hear some opinions on a body builders physique in a body building discussion forum. Pretty normal if you ask me. & yes I would reply with comments on someone's physique.


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## aztecwolf (May 25, 2004)

i say we make this the longest thread in forum history


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## PreMier (May 25, 2004)

You have a LONG way to go man.  You should see "Rocks whoring thread"  Its a sight to see..


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## Johnnny (May 25, 2004)

aztecwolf 





> i say we make this the longest thread in forum history


Instead of writing that, can't you write some opinions about his physique instead? Is that too much to ask?


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## plouffe (May 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by P-funk *_
> giving advice.





Giving ADVICES.


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## aztecwolf (May 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by aztecwolf *_
> alright he has a good physique, lets move on


is it too much to ask to read the thread and what i already said earlier in it


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## tk... (May 26, 2004)

johnny,,

i train at the same gym he does. I see him almost everyday, he's huge. Am guesing you go to the "monster" as well?? but your sig, says toronto.


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## Johnnny (May 26, 2004)

tk... yeah I do. I know my location says Toronto as that's where I'm from & would like to live, but right now it's very expensive. There's also a Monster Gym in Toronto.

I'm going on vacation with my girlfriend to Toronto for 8 days next week to visit some of my relatives & buddies & we'll be going to Strictly Fitness. Almost double the size of Monster with a huge pool & small restaurant. I had the pleasure of meeting IFBB pro Markus Rhul there in 2001 when he won the Toronto.

Have you heard of Larry Vinette? He was a trainer at my old gym, but now goes to The Pro Gym.


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## tk... (May 27, 2004)

when do u train?


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## Johnnny (May 27, 2004)

tk... it varies on the day. Afternoon, morning, evening, 8pm. It's different every week. Sometimes it depends on my work schedule, & if it's a day I'm working at home I may go to the gym in the afternoon or morning as I maybe going out at night so I work in the morning & the rest of the afternoon after the gym.
So it really varies week to week & sometimes day to day.
Next week I won't be in montreal as I'm going to Toronto for business & taking several extra days vacation to train, see relatives & friends with my girlfriend.


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