# DPS & Avant Labs



## Arnold (Mar 9, 2003)

www.dpsnutrition.com is now out of all Avant Labs transdermals:

http://www.dpsnutrition.net/product_list.asp?dept=1020&last=1020


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## kuso (Mar 9, 2003)

1fast400.com still has some!!


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## Arnold (Mar 10, 2003)

yeah, I know but I only order from DPS, I guess if I get desperate I will go there.
I ordered 4 bottles of One+ a few weeks ago before DPS ran out.


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## I Are Baboon (Mar 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> www.dpsnutrition.com is now out of all Avant Labs transdermals:




It's now dpsnutrition.*net*.  Update your bookmark.


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## Twin Peak (Mar 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> yeah, I know but I only order from DPS, I guess if I get desperate I will go there.
> I ordered 4 bottles of One+ a few weeks ago before DPS ran out.



And?  Have you used any of them yet?  This your forst foray into PH/PSs?


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## Arnold (Mar 10, 2003)

Currently into my third week of One+, yes first time using the "pro-steroids", I used some of the crappy pro-hormones a couple of years ago.

I will attest to the fact the the stuff (1-test & 4-AD) WORKS!


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## Twin Peak (Mar 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> Currently into my third week of One+, yes first time using the "pro-steroids", I used some of the crappy pro-hormones a couple of years ago.
> 
> I will attest to the fact the the stuff (1-test & 4-AD) WORKS!



No surprise there. 

What dosage (mgs of each) are you taking?


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## Arnold (Mar 10, 2003)

I started out using around 6-8 squirts 2x per day, this past week I upped it to 10 squirts 2x per day.

I was thinking about rubbing down my whole body with it just as an experiment...just kidding.


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## Arnold (Mar 10, 2003)

Now I have a dilema! 

Can I still call myself _natural_?


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## Twin Peak (Mar 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> I started out using around 6-8 squirts 2x per day, this past week I upped it to 10 squirts 2x per day.
> 
> I was thinking about rubbing down my whole body with it just as an experiment...just kidding.



I forget what that works out to mg-wise for 1T and 4AD.  I am thinking about working up to 400mg of 1T a day next time, myself.


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## Twin Peak (Mar 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> Now I have a dilema!
> 
> Can I still call myself _natural_?



Depends on how you define natural.  Personally, I think that's an outmoded term.  Since 1T is an AAS, no you can't.  That said, what does natural mean?  Is creatine "natural"?  I think the line is blurred beyond recognition.

I say, you can call yourself 100% legal.


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## Arnold (Mar 10, 2003)

do you have a supply in case it's no longer available, or are you going to buy the raw materials and mix it yourself?

do you have any idea how much 1fast400.com has on hand?


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## Twin Peak (Mar 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> do you have a supply in case it's no longer available, or are you going to buy the raw materials and mix it yourself?
> 
> do you have any idea how much 1fast400.com has on hand?



I have enough.  Also, Mike (1fast) sells the bulk PHs and I can always get the plain gels from Par (both Avant and Mike still have them).

Last I talked to Mike he had some, but not that much.  It all depends I guess on whether and how much people stockpile.  I doubt anyone other than Mike has any left.


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## Arnold (Mar 10, 2003)

since you're attorney, what is the oulook on the "pro-hormone" ban? any updates?

not sure if it helps, but I sent in 5 letters to my representatives.  no reply yet.


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## Twin Peak (Mar 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> since you're attorney, what is the oulook on the "pro-hormone" ban? any updates?
> 
> not sure if it helps, but I sent in 5 letters to my representatives.  no reply yet.



Senators seem to be mixed on if and how they reply.  Outlook is hard to say.  Its hard to fight a pitch "for the children" and most don't understand the issues fully.

Industry talk is mixed as well.  Some think it has a chance of lossing most don't.  Some companies are fighting hard, others are not.  Really tough call.  Just my hunch, for what its worth, I'd say 60/40 likely to be passed.  Perhaps higher since the public opinion is particularly low on supplements these days.


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## Arnold (Mar 10, 2003)

yeah, that's about what I have heard as well.

if it did pass when would the ban take effect and how long before it's removed from the market completely? 

in other words, is there a set date of when it either gets passed or not?


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## Twin Peak (Mar 10, 2003)

Haven't heard and I don't think its set.  I think its still being passed around subcommittees (for the recommendation) and what not.  Still more than 1 hoop to go through.


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## kuso (Mar 10, 2003)

Prince, if you like the ONE+ so much, I`d grab a SuperONE; while they are still available!!


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## Arnold (Mar 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> Prince, if you like the ONE+ so much, I`d grab a SuperONE; while they are still available!!



I was thinking about it, but I already spent $200 on 4 bottles of One+ (which I have not even opened yet) and I just bought some orals of 1-AD, 4-AD and 6-OXO that cost me another $100.


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## Robboe (Mar 10, 2003)

If the ban gets passed you'll be kicking yourself a few years down the line wondering why you didn't just buy it to try it.


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## SeVenSinZ (Mar 10, 2003)

*PH Ban update*

The bill never made it to a vote before the end of the last session. That means that it would have to be reintroduced next session. So we're safe for a little while longer.


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## gopro (Mar 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> Now I have a dilema!
> 
> Can I still call myself _natural_?



NO...you are now a full-fledged druggie


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## Arnold (Mar 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> If the ban gets passed you'll be kicking yourself a few years down the line wondering why you didn't just buy it to try it.



Isn't Super One+ the same as One+ just with a bit more 1-Test and 4-AD?


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## Arnold (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: PH Ban update*



> _*Originally posted by SeVenSinZ *_
> The bill never made it to a vote before the end of the last session. That means that it would have to be reintroduced next session. So we're safe for a little while longer.



when is the next session?


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## kuso (Mar 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> Isn't Super One+ the same as One+ just with a bit more 1-Test and 4-AD?




Over double the test from the top of my head. Quite a difference I would assume.


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## SeVenSinZ (Mar 10, 2003)

Prince - I think its towards the end of the year


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## Twin Peak (Mar 11, 2003)

The difference between One+ and Super One+ is that the ratio of 1test to 4-diol is different.  I forget the exact ratios of each but for the Super you have more 1T added it, so you get more mg of 1T for every mg of 4diol.


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## kuso (Mar 11, 2003)

"Super ONE+ has 3.375g of 1-Testosterone added to ONE+, which makes Super ONE+ 6g of 1-test and 9.375g of 4AD. Each squirt would supply you with 16.66mg of 1-Testosterone and 26.04mg of 4AD. At six squirts 2x per day, it will last you a month."

Taken from 1fast400.com

Means you are getting about 2.3 times the 1T of ONE+


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## Twin Peak (Mar 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> Means you are getting about 2.3 times the 1T of ONE+



This is true as to the WHOLE bottle.  Not necessarily true as to the daily dose.

You have three choices:

1)  Keep dosage (no. of squirts) the same, thus taking in 2.3 times as much 1T, and the same amount of 4diol.

2)  Decrease the no. quirts so that the amount of 1T stays the same and the 4diol decreases (thus using the diol less as an androgen and more to conteract certain sides of 1T).

3)  Something in between.

My point is that you could always up the 1T dose of One+ by simply using more squirts, of course, you'd be incrementaly increasing 4diol amount.

My ultimate point is that one should decide on the ratio of 1T to 4 Diol that one wants and then the appropriate doses and manipulate the formulate to meet ones desires (by adding extra PH, etc.)


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## kuso (Mar 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> 
> 
> My ultimate point is that one should decide on the ratio of 1T to 4 Diol that one wants and then the appropriate doses and manipulate the formulate to meet ones desires (by adding extra PH, etc.)




Which is why I personly like the Monster combo.......double the amount of 1T to SuperONE+ ( 12g rather than 6g ), with the added bonus of it coming in a seperate bottle to the 4AD giving more control over dosages.


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## Twin Peak (Mar 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> Which is why I personly like the Monster combo.......double the amount of 1T to SuperONE+ ( 12g rather than 6g ), with the added bonus of it coming in a seperate bottle to the 4AD giving more control over dosages.



Exactly.


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## Robboe (Mar 11, 2003)

I got some LipoDerm-Y in the post today.

Just thought i'd mention it.


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## Robboe (Mar 11, 2003)

I got a spot on my back too, right on the spine. It hurts like a sonofabitch.


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## Twin Peak (Mar 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> I got some LipoDerm-Y in the post today.
> 
> Just thought i'd mention it.



When will you use it?  Adding caffiene?

I am going to wait for the LY-II, as I am too fat now anyway.


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## Robboe (Mar 11, 2003)

They keep putting the LD-YII back so i thought fuck it, I can handle water rention.

Not planning to add caffiene, no. But i'll most likely be using EC by then. And i drink green tea every day anyway, so i'm not sure how much of an issue it'll be.

It'll be used not until week 8 onwards. I'm not quite below 15% just yet (i don't think) and i'd rather wait until i get down to really stubborn bf anyway.

I'll let you know when i do, and i'll make it all nice and neat and stuff. If it's positive (which i really hope it is) then i'll mail it to Par Deus so he can put it on the feedback page.

I may be putting a bit too much faith in this product, but the feedback is phenomenal so im really hoping i'm not.

By the way, i also got two tubs of Ergopharm's 1-AD and some IN-rage. I'll not be using those until i next gain, but it's an exciting prospect.


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## Twin Peak (Mar 11, 2003)

I am curious to know how you like 1AD, and the In-rage as well.

LY II keeps getting pushed because Par keeps focusing on big and better things (but I wish he could focus on one thing at a time!)


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## gopro (Mar 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> NO...you are now a full-fledged druggie



Notice how this post was just glosses over...hehehehe...


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## Arnold (Mar 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Notice how this post was just glosses over...hehehehe...



yeah, but I still consider myself natural. 


1-test, 1-AD & 4-AD are all "naturally occuring" substances right?


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## Twin Peak (Mar 12, 2003)

Not in the human body.

And 1-test is an AAS.  Same as any other.

If you injected insulin (for non-diabetic purposes) and growth hormone and natural testosterone, would you still consider yourself natural?


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## Arnold (Mar 12, 2003)

TP I was being sarcastic, hence the winking smiley face.


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## gopro (Mar 12, 2003)

Well, seriously, natural means different things to different people. I have used prohormones before but still consider myself natural. But my competing organization, the INBF/WNBF, bans everything they think crosses the line, so, all PHs are out for me!!


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## Robboe (Mar 12, 2003)

I don't consider myself natural after using 1-test.

Then again, i wouldn't have called myself natural before that since i've used clenbuterol twice. 

Then again, clen is hardly anabolic.


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## Arnold (Mar 12, 2003)

well, we could get into a debate where we question if taking supplements like creatine still qualify you as being "natural".


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## Robboe (Mar 12, 2003)

Yeah we could, but i wouldn't participate cause they've been done to death.

Ad they're no fun.

But comparing a real AA steroid to creatine may be like apples and oranges.


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## Twin Peak (Mar 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> well, we could get into a debate where we question if taking supplements like creatine still qualify you as being "natural".



Which is exactly why I think the term is outdated.


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## Arnold (Mar 12, 2003)

Yeah, I agree.

I guess I will call myself "semi-natural".


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## Twin Peak (Mar 12, 2003)

I still like legal.  Except the true AAS users may beat me up.


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## gopro (Mar 12, 2003)

Lets just call ourselves "OVER-THE-COUNTER ATHLETES." (OTCA)


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## Twin Peak (Mar 12, 2003)

Actually, I like that (not the acronym though).


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## Robboe (Mar 12, 2003)

Overt the counter sounds like a sexual reference to me.

And knowing Gopro it's most likely a bi-curious reference.


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## Twin Peak (Mar 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Overt the counter sounds like a sexual reference to me.



Have trouble going into supermarkets do you?


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## gopro (Mar 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Overt the counter sounds like a sexual reference to me.
> 
> And knowing Gopro it's most likely a bi-curious reference.



Why do I even bother posting


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## Robboe (Mar 12, 2003)

Ahh shaddap, Eric.

That was just making up for the lack of insult in my post in your journal.


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## Robboe (Mar 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Have trouble going into supermarkets do you?



Depends how wide the door frame is.


Or if the door is locked.


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## gopro (Mar 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Ahh shaddap, Eric.
> 
> That was just making up for the lack of insult in my post in your journal.



You can insult me in my journal if you wish. I'm sure I wrote something you want to disagree with or call me a liar on


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## Twin Peak (Mar 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> You can insult me in my journal if you wish. I'm sure I wrote something you want to disagree with or call me a liar on



Well in fairness, you haven't said anything in your journal excpet that dieting sucks, and I am pretty sure Rob agrees with that.

How is it going, seriously?  How much weight have you dropped?


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## gopro (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Well in fairness, you haven't said anything in your journal excpet that dieting sucks, and I am pretty sure Rob agrees with that.
> 
> How is it going, seriously?  How much weight have you dropped?



Very true TP, but when I kiddingly said that I really weigh 160 and have 20% BF, TCD was dying to make a comment!! Somehow he held back. Anyway...dieting is going well. I have not stepped on the scale and will not even bother to do so until the final week. I could care less what I weigh...whether I compete at 200 or 220 doesn't matter one iota to me...only how ripped, full, vascular, and dry I am. I don't have to worry about making a weight class so bodyweight means nothing.

My body is responding well...I'm getting harder each day and strength is still good. Just hungry is all!


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## Twin Peak (Mar 13, 2003)

You don't track progress by any objective means at all?  Seriously?  No scale, tapemeasure, calipers, etc?

How do you know if you are losing to quickly, or too slowly, or too much muscle, etc?


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## gopro (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> You don't track progress by any objective means at all?  Seriously?  No scale, tapemeasure, calipers, etc?
> 
> How do you know if you are losing to quickly, or too slowly, or too much muscle, etc?



TP...I've done this so many times I can do it blindfolded...however, closer to the show I will measure bodyfat, waist size, and do a weight check beginning the final week to track my peaking process. But from now till then...the mirror is all I need.


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## Robboe (Mar 13, 2003)

Plus, i don't suppose it matters too much with all the drugs you're using


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## Arnold (Mar 13, 2003)

I have to admit gopro I was hoping that you would keep a semi-detailed diary of your dieting and contest prep. 

I was reading Jeff Willet's (at AST) while he was preparing for his last show and it was insightful.


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## gopro (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> I have to admit gopro I was hoping that you would keep a semi-detailed diary of your dieting and contest prep.
> 
> I was reading Jeff Willet's (at AST) while he was preparing for his last show and it was insightful.



I would do a better job of it but I really don't have alot of time for it. I will give more insight as I get closer.


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