# Popped my cherry!



## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 11, 2004)

Hey guys just wanted to let ya'll know I did my first injection of 1.5cc of prop in my left delt tonight. I was so freaked out at first but it didn't hurt at all. I took my time and it went really smooth. I have decided to make a drastic change in plans here too. I am going to be smart and run a test only cycle this time especially due to my boarderline high BP. I don't want to mix and match and not know what drug is doing what. So my cycle is going to look like 150 prop EOD for 12 weeks. I still plan on running .5mg Arimidex the entire length of the cycle. I have Nolva and HCG for PCT. Basically I am going to pass on the Dbol/deca/winny until next time. I want to play this first cycle smart. Thanks for all the advice along the way guys leading up to my first cycle. I'll keep you all posted of my results.


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## supertech (Jun 11, 2004)

Congrats on popping your cherry  Good luck too ya on your cycle.


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## Evil ANT (Jun 11, 2004)

Good luck and stay safe!


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## Randy (Jun 11, 2004)

Trojan,

Where are the before photos so we know how you progressed?


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## Mudge (Jun 11, 2004)

I thought you were already on with blood pressure like that, watch it like a hawk man or you wont be around long. I know one guy IRL with an enlarged heart already, looks awesome but he may end up looking that way in a coffin soon. As much as I love the juice if I was anywhere over 130/90, I wouldn't run anything.


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## Randy (Jun 11, 2004)

Sometimes the best motto is --- BETTER SAFE THEN SORRY ---


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## Mudge (Jun 12, 2004)

Well, there is certainly more to life than having big arms, there is life itself. Happiness comes in many forms and it can certainly be something other than being hooge and half dead.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 12, 2004)

Thanks for the concern guys. I am going to monitor my BP like a hawk. If it goes up much I will stop thats all there is to it. I am probably going to get something from my doc tomorrow morning for my BP. I didn't get there today unfortunatly. My choice to skip out on the dbol is mostly due to the higher risk of a raise in BP. I'll just save my naposims for another day. With me doing cardio now it should be going down. I'm going to use this test only cycle to add some lean mass and to assist in dropping bodyfat. I am going to eat very clean the entire time. As far as those before and after pics....I'll have mousie take some tomorrow....better get them soon cause the prop will be kicking in anytime now I'm sure.


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## JerseyDevil (Jun 12, 2004)

It's about time.  

Seriously, I know you have done your homework and did plenty of research. You made the right decision concerning the prop only cycle. Like the others said, monitor that BP closely.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 12, 2004)

Thanks JD...I am just going to keep my other gear for next time that's all. Better play is safe than sorry. No need to over do my first cycle. I was thinking if after 8 weeks on test and everything is going good I still may add the winny the last 4 weeks. By then I will know how the test has effected me and I'll know what's what when I add the winny. I am also thinking that the cardio I've begun is deffinetly going to lower my BP naturally. Plus I'm going to the doc right after this post to have him check my BP and see if there is a need for meds. HEY on a brighter note its the day after my first inject and there is like NO PAIN!...Southern prop deserves a big round of applause.


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## Randy (Jun 12, 2004)

Dammmmmnnnnn Mudge, you scared him now.
Trojan is all happy about his first cycle and then you shoot the moment down 

But Trojan, he did make a good point...  One that you certainly must consider over everything else.  You want to make sure you are not putting yourself at extreme risk.
I don't know a lot about blood pressure and steroids, but I would say that common sense would say that the two don't mix well...  Like oil and water


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 12, 2004)

I went to the doc today and they did my BP and it was 140/80. They said its not that bad. So maybe the machine I have is a little high. My pulse was 83. She told me that 70-80 is normal. She told me that if its stays in the 90-100+ range for long periods of time that can stress my heart over time. She told me basically that I am healthy. She also mentioned the only true way to get your BP done is at the office by a nurse. She told me that the digital machines like I have are not always acurate. I asked her at what point do I have to worry about my BP being life threatening. She told me when its 190-200/120 is when it becomes dangerous and help is needed ASAP. She told me that I am not at risk right now of health problems. She set me up with another doctor to see regularly since I told her that I want to have it monitored. I see the new doc next friday morning. I am going to have my thyroid and everything else checked out at that time. I am very thankful for all the words of wisdom you all have given me. I am going to be keeping a close eye on my BP. If it goes up much even like 170/90 or more I will drop all gear. I'll keep you all posted. And yes Randy I am super excited about this cycle since its my first.


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## Randy (Jun 12, 2004)

My pulse has always been in 90 - 100 range..  
I've never been told that it would stress my heart.

But I guess everyone is different.  Running high pulse is normal for me I guess.
I've never had blood pressure problems are any apparant health concerns (Knock on wood).


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## Mudge (Jun 12, 2004)

Randy thats not even funny. Your heart should not be pumping like that unless you are working, and you dont measure your resting rate when you are working.

I can't believe any doctor would call 80 normal, thats pathetic. Yeah and 20% bodyfat is normal for men in the US too, its called being fat and near diabetic.

What do you do for cardio Randy, walk down a block or two? If your normal heart rate is 90-100 and your max heart rate is around 175-180 then frankly your heart is overworking itself just to live a normal life.


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## Randy (Jun 12, 2004)

Mudge said:
			
		

> Randy thats not even funny. Your heart should not be pumping like that unless you are working, and you dont measure your resting rate when you are working.
> 
> I can't believe any doctor would call 80 normal, thats pathetic. Yeah and 20% bodyfat is normal for men in the US too, its called being fat and near diabetic.
> 
> What do you do for cardio Randy, walk down a block or two? If your normal heart rate is 90-100 and your max heart rate is around 175-180 then frankly your heart is overworking itself just to live a normal life.


I don't know what it has been for about a year or so... I will check it in the drug store next time I am there .   But my mother has always had a high pulse rate too and she is now 85 years old   My dad is in that age category too.  He smokes a pack a day and is healthy as an ox


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## Mudge (Jun 12, 2004)

Your a freak, but we already knew that.


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## Randy (Jun 12, 2004)

Isn't that the truth


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## Mudge (Jun 12, 2004)

Before you check your BP and your pulse rate, make sure you are RELAXED. Sit at the station and rest for a couple minutes, on top of that I walk slowly on my way there. However for a 'sure' BP measurement you are supposed to check at 4 intervals through the day, not just once.


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## Randy (Jun 12, 2004)

Ok thanks Mudge


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## gr81 (Jun 12, 2004)

just my opnion thrown in here, I wouldn't immediately run the armidex ed unless I had a reason to want to, ya know what I am saying? You don't necessarily want no estrogen level unless you know that you are especially sensetive to the androgenic sides. thats gonna cut into your gians. I mean certainly I would wanna have it there on hand to be ready asap, but thats just me.. peace and good luck T


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 12, 2004)

Thanks GR...I think I'm going to run it .5mg EOD or until I start retaining mucho water. I have nolva on hand incase any gyno starts to creep up on me. Being a first cycle I should be able to do well without the dbol/deca/winny involved. 150mg EOD should be plenty. I'm still waiting to feel something other then anxiety waiting for something to happen..lol...anyways my shoulder did get a little sore. Feels like someone punched me in the left delt pretty good. Its not bad enough to make lifting or anything harder. So if this is as bad as the injects get then I'll be good the rest of the time.


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## gr81 (Jun 12, 2004)

yeah, I would run the nolva right away and keep the armidex on hand personally, switch that around but I didn't mind the water retention and wanted the extra strength gains. Also didn't fancy what my cholesterol levels would be like running AM so often. So you are just running the prop and thats it? maybe I didn't read it closely


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## Randy (Jun 12, 2004)

Gr...Despite our differences in the past, you seem like you can be a pretty good guy when ya want to


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 13, 2004)

Yeah GR I am just going to run the prop this time around. I have boarderline high BP. This morning after my shake I check it and it was 137/80. I really want to add the other stuff in there with the prop but it just doesn't seem like a wise idea right now.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 13, 2004)

I was super jacked about the naposims since they are supposed to really pack on the beef quick, but I think its likely to raise my BP....I am still unsure if leaving the deca out is worth it or not. From everything I've read deca doesn't raise BP except in high doses. I was going to run 300mg E7D.


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## Mudge (Jun 13, 2004)

Anything that packs on pounds fast = water retention up the yin yang.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 13, 2004)

So mudge what your saying is that people that put on like 15lbs in a month on dbol is probably mostly water weight? IMO what does it matter if someone gains 100lbs in a month if its water. I'm looking to only put on lean muscle. I realize I will gain some water weight, but I am hoping that the arimidex is going to limit the amount of water the test puts on me.


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## mousie (Jun 13, 2004)

I had to check up on Troj that first night in the bathroom.  I wanted to make sure that he didn't pass out with a needle stick in his arm!

I'm very proud of you, babe, that you popped your own cherry.  Keep up the good work so far!  

"All I wanna see is you and me go on forever like the clear blue sky"


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## Randy (Jun 13, 2004)

Wow!  A wife or girlfriend that supports the juice...   
First one I have ever heard of.   But, that is a good thing for Trojan


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## mousie (Jun 13, 2004)

Well, I didn't agree with it before.  But after learning more about roids and realizing how much research and knowledge Trojan has about roids, I'm sure that he is going about this in a smart way.  Don't tell him, but when we go out a little later, I'm going to buy an expensive massager to use on him.  I don't feel that I'm very good with massaging, so I might as well spend some money to baby him while he's on his cycle.  (And I expect him to return the favor when I start my cycle...whenever that will be...)

I'm sure he'll let you know later about the massager that we get...


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## Randy (Jun 13, 2004)

Mousie,

It sounds like Trojan is a lucky man to have someone like you .


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## mousie (Jun 13, 2004)

And more importantly, I am very lucky to have a man like Troj.  :bounce:


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## Randy (Jun 13, 2004)

Ok OK....it's getting to mushy in here for me... Now what were we talking about? Oh yeah, "Cherry Popping".


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## mousie (Jun 13, 2004)

Oh yeah, speaking of cherry popping...when is this increase in sex drive suppose to start?!


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## Randy (Jun 13, 2004)

Well I'm not familiar with what Trojan is taking, but with my M1T/4AD cycle it kicked in immediately.. Well at least day 2-3.


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## Mudge (Jun 13, 2004)

TrojanMan60563 said:
			
		

> IMO what does it matter if someone gains 100lbs in a month if its water.


Your right it doesn't matter, they'd be dead.


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## Randy (Jun 13, 2004)

Here's a pretty good article I found... Just the basic facts of steroids...

http://www.people.westminstercollege.edu/students/dhc4574/justthefacts.htm


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## iamscrewed (Jun 13, 2004)

Can anyone help me. I was almost beaten to death a year ago.  I got my jaw wired shut and was so skinny I wanted to just burry myself.  So anyways I was an idiot and took Diabanol without fully researching how to take it in cycles.  Anywho I don't want my balls to shrink, is there anything i should take now that I am off the shit ( and trust me I will never be doing another steroid what so ever again).  And can anyone give me any info or prior exsperience with D-bol ( I know its some of the worst stuff to take, after the fact)  Any help for this poor schmuk would be appreciate


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## Randy (Jun 13, 2004)

iamscrewed said:
			
		

> Can anyone help me. I was almost beaten to death a year ago. I got my jaw wired shut and was so skinny I wanted to just burry myself. So anyways I was an idiot and took Diabanol without fully researching how to take it in cycles. Anywho I don't want my balls to shrink, is there anything i should take now that I am off the shit ( and trust me I will never be doing another steroid what so ever again). And can anyone give me any info or prior exsperience with D-bol ( I know its some of the worst stuff to take, after the fact) Any help for this poor schmuk would be appreciate


Iamscrewed,

Sorry to hear of your situation.
You should probably create your own thread within the Anabolic Section.
This way you get more responses to your question from all the roid experts.
But Mudge may help you here...He is one of the roid experts.


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## Michael D (Jun 13, 2004)

Iamscrewed yes you are.  If you are off of everything, don't worry about it.  How much did you take and how did you take it?

 If you wanted to bury yourself solely because of your weight, you should get some help before you do anything else.

 But, I liked my dbol


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## mousie (Jun 13, 2004)

Well, we got a massager!  It's made by Homedics...it has 6 sets of attachments (soft, medium, hard, gel, heat, and acu-point).  I don't see it on the website, but it is something similar to this:

http://www.homedics.com/massage/detail.cfm?subcat=106&product=300

We got Model PA-400H.  Troj is using it right now...basically orgasming...hahaha.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 13, 2004)

Ok so anyone else thats used test get lethargy? I feel alittle like i'm on valium or something like that. Just did my 2nd injection in my right delt. It didn't hurt at all. My question is how come it doesn't hurt when I do, but like 24 hours latter its sore like someone beat my arm. It doesn't look swolen or anything. I used the messager on my right delt for like 15 minutes and now I am going to put the heating pad on it for another 15. My left delt is sore and had to be gentle with the messager to avoid pain. Its like vibrating on a bruise. I'm going to put the heat on that one too. Is this the normal after injection pain/feeling ya'll get?


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## Randy (Jun 13, 2004)

Here is the one I have

Here's mine


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## Randy (Jun 13, 2004)

Hey, it's the same


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## supertech (Jun 13, 2004)

TrojanMan60563 said:
			
		

> Ok so anyone else thats used test get lethargy? I feel alittle like i'm on valium or something like that. Just did my 2nd injection in my right delt. It didn't hurt at all. My question is how come it doesn't hurt when I do, but like 24 hours latter its sore like someone beat my arm. It doesn't look swolen or anything. I used the messager on my right delt for like 15 minutes and now I am going to put the heating pad on it for another 15. My left delt is sore and had to be gentle with the messager to avoid pain. Its like vibrating on a bruise. I'm going to put the heat on that one too. Is this the normal after injection pain/feeling ya'll get?


  The soreness stays with you for a while.Wait till you do ass or leg shots,I could hardly walk or sit for a while.
So what made you decide to run Prop? I thought test enanthate was ideal for a newbie.


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## Randy (Jun 13, 2004)

Hey Supertech...

That avatar you have is hillarious


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## supertech (Jun 13, 2004)

Randy said:
			
		

> Hey Supertech...
> 
> That avatar you have is hillarious


 What makes you say that?


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## Randy (Jun 13, 2004)

supertech said:
			
		

> What makes you say that?


Supertech... I didn't mean it to be insulting.. It's just the way he appears like he is flying it just strikes me as funny that's all    It's still a kewl avatar buddy.


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## supertech (Jun 13, 2004)

Randy said:
			
		

> Supertech... I didn't mean it to be insulting.. It's just the way he appears like he is flying it just strikes me as funny that's all  It's still a kewl avatar buddy.


No I didn't think you where being insulting.I was just wondering what you thought was hilarious.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 13, 2004)

I picked prop cause it appears that more guys were having better luck with it. I can tell you that within 24 hours I was "feeling" something different about myself. I don't mean gaining anything. But I felt different like I was on something. So I can only assume that its working. I have also noticed an increase in hunger, and sleep better too. When I go to sleep I'm out like a light.


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## supertech (Jun 13, 2004)

TrojanMan60563 said:
			
		

> I picked prop cause it appears that more guys were having better luck with it. I can tell you that within 24 hours I was "feeling" something different about myself. I don't mean gaining anything. But I felt different like I was on something. So I can only assume that its working. I have also noticed an increase in hunger, and sleep better too. When I go to sleep I'm out like a light.


yeah i will probable run prop next time.


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## Randy (Jun 13, 2004)

The one thing that I noticed that I didn't like , well on M1T anyway was my mood change.  I seemed to get more aggressive and angry.   Also the mood swings that I hear so much about like when guys are on their off cycle.   I didn't experience that myself.  Actually my mood seemed get much better when I was off it.  But I definately gained weight and it seemed to definately work.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 13, 2004)

Does anyone know if BP drops on test....cause mine has gone down to 120/73. Could that be the effects of the arimidex? My doc also gave me some erythromiacin (i think thats how its spelled) for a sinus cold. Could that be interacting with the test or arimidex? I've been waiting to see my BP go up, and its kinda freaking me out to see it going down.


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## gr81 (Jun 13, 2004)

TJ, yeah the pain is normal defn, especially with the prop dude. You shouldn't be feeling like you are on painkillers, thats probably got nothing to do with the test. As for th ewater retention, yeah its not a bad idea to keep it down and teh nolva helps with that by competing for the receptor sites which your better off having then a hault of production of estrogen as with the armidex. I also would really want to run a longer ester or longer acting drug along with the prop personally, I wouldn't just rin it by itself but I guess our goals are different. Next cycle I would throw some more things in there thou.. aiight peace bro


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## gr81 (Jun 13, 2004)

> Gr...Despite our differences in the past, you seem like you can be a pretty good guy when ya want to


believe it or not..lol



> Wow! A wife or girlfriend that supports the juice...
> First one I have ever heard of. But, that is a good thing for Trojan


shit, not only that but I htink she said she was running some anavar, I may be mistaken thou. Most rational people, if they took the chance to educate themselves about anabolics they would see that the stigmas are wildly exagerrated and are extremely beneficial for lots of people. Good for her in listening to her man and trusting him


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## gr81 (Jun 13, 2004)

> Well, we got a massager!


ha,.. yeahh a massager. whatever you wanna use it for is up to you! lol


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## Randy (Jun 13, 2004)

...


			
				gr81 said:
			
		

> shit, not only that but I htink she said she was running some anavar, I may be mistaken thou. Most rational people, if they took the chance to educate themselves about anabolics they would see that the stigmas are wildly exagerrated and are extremely beneficial for lots of people. Good for her in listening to her man and trusting him
> 
> *Most Definately!  We need more women like this. *


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 13, 2004)

Guys I think my BP dropping and raising, and my heart racing has to do with anxiety. Thats probably why I feel doped up too. I am actually thinking of calling it quits until I do a few things.

a) Get my BF down to 12-15%

b) Get my BP down by doing more cardio increasing my cardio capacity

c) Getting a grip on anxiety via the above A and B, or getting some meds from my doc.

Since I have only taken two 150mg injects have I already been shut down? Do I have to PCT. I feel like a big dummy for wanting to quit but I keep having short little panic attacks and its driving me nuts.  One minute I think I'm going to passout and stop breathing, and the next my heart is racing like crazy. I can't seem to find any posts anywhere that would link these symtoms to test. So it must be my anxiety getting the best of me. Thanks for the help guys.


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## gr81 (Jun 13, 2004)

I would go see a dr bro, that should be your number one priority. if I missed it and you did then my bad but I would defn look into that before running anything and be honest with the doc so propor precautions can be taken. I have not heard of test having that effect but everyone is different, best to get it checked


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## Michael D (Jun 13, 2004)

Should his bp be changing after only 3 days on test?  I checked mine tonight at Wal-Mart and it was 135/68 with a pulse of 76.  And that was immediately after walking so I guess it is alright.  I know that when I was still taking dbol it was high without having to check it.  I got pissed off a couple of times and was a bit concerned because it felt like my heart was going beat out of my chest.  My pulse is much better now off the dbol.

 Trojan, maybe you are just nervous about something.  Mousie hasn't been pushing you to use the massager against your will has she?

 Gr81, what are the lines in your sig from?


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## Randy (Jun 13, 2004)

Trojan,

I would follow Gr's advice.  Don't worry about prematurely stopping your cycle.  It's all about your health.  If you have 2nd thoughts, then that is good enough reason to stop.  You can always go back and complete a cycle at any time.  See the doc and like GR said, be honest with him.  Make sure your body is ready for the juice.  If there is any issues, forget the juice all together...  I did M1T to try it, but I decided at this point that is enough for me.  I myself am staying natural.  But that is me.  You have to make the right choice for yourself.


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## gr81 (Jun 13, 2004)

besides T, the only drug you are running has a half life of 2 days so its not like it would be detremental to your hormone level for weeks and months, ya dig? I doubt the high bp is form the test but the best thing to do is get that potentially harmful problem checked out..


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 14, 2004)

Well this morning I am feeling ok. I think I get myself worked up about the injections and the thought that I am on gear brings out my anxiety. I have a doctors appointment on this friday to have blood test done to check everything out. I am also going to have my thyroid checked out since my Mom is on thyroid pills cause hers is dead. I doubt that I have a problem with mine but I just wanna have it checked out since it runs in the family. I am going to try and stick it out until friday if I can. Hopefully I can get something for the anxiety. My BP was back to 143/86 so I feel better about that. I don't know if my BP machine was f*cking with me or what but last night when I started to freak out it had dropped to 91/59 with a pulse of 100. I got low readings like that a few times so I think thats why I was freaking out cause I thought my heart was not pumping or something. I am going to get some fresh batteries for this thing just to make sure its all good.


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## JerseyDevil (Jun 14, 2004)

The medication your doctor gave you is a antibiotic, so I doubt that is causing a problem.  Are you taking any cold medicine, or a ECA stack?  When I started my cycle I had a head cold also.  I was taking Claritin-D which contains pseudoephedrine, as do the vast majority of cold medications.  It caused my BP to go up to 144/75. But what really concerned me was my pulse was around 100. I thought it was the test at first, but it turned out to be the pseudoephedrine.

Like GR said, that is one of the great things about prop.... the short half life.  If it is the test causing the problem, ceasing it should clear it up in a few days, not weeks like a longer ester.

The soreness 24 hours later is completely normal.  The prop ester tends to be more painful then the longer esters.  For me, the delts only get moderately sore. Glutes I barely feel a thing, while injecting into quads usually is stiff and sore for about 4 days.


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## Mudge (Jun 14, 2004)

When pulse rate increases often it can be to compensate for low blood pressure, but if BP and heart rate are both high, thats no bueno.


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## Randy (Jun 14, 2004)

I measured last night and my pulse was like 72


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## Randy (Jun 14, 2004)

But when Mudge talks about that Camaro my pulse goes back up to like 90


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 14, 2004)

I am about 99% sure that I am going to stop my cycle. When I got to work today I thought I was going to have to walk out do to anxiety. I was sweating like a freak and I felt faint. I am going to get in check before I start back up. I was going to lower then dose, but then I decided its not worth it...I'm going to stop and resume down the road when I lose some BF and get my anxiety under control. Sorry to dissapoint anyone. Nobody can be more upset about it then myself.


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## Michael D (Jun 14, 2004)

Why would you disappoint anybody?  Everyone here cares more for your health rather than what you lift.  Get your stuff straight and come back when you are ready.  Good luck and be safe.


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## Randy (Jun 14, 2004)

Yeah Trojan,
You're only dissapointing us if you don't get your  down and get checked out man


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 15, 2004)

Thanks guys.  I feel like a failure, but hey its better then risking my health right now. It will be much safer for me when I get my BP down and get the anxiety under control. Until then I'll do what I can naturally to keep making gains. Do you think PCT is needed after two injections? Technically I havn't been on a week yet.


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## Mudge (Jun 15, 2004)

If you felt like it a week would probably be fine, I probably wouldn't bother myself. Were you going to do a cutter? Its really unpleasant trying to bulk with higher bodyfat, trust me.


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## iamscrewed (Jun 15, 2004)

Hey Mudge,  

Randy said you might be able to help me.  i have some questions regarding D-bol and side effects of steroids in general.  Any help would be greatly appreciated


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## Mudge (Jun 15, 2004)

Side effects can be from mild to wild, I haven't experienced anything really bad.

Gyno, testicular atrophy, blood pressure, hair loss if you are prone to it, those are the primary things I'd say to watch out for. Acne is not generally a problem unless you are on for awhile, or had it bad as a teen.

If you are going to do oral steroids watch the alcohol, drink rarely if at all and NOT mass quanities. Also I would not stay on them longer than 6 weeks as a generic rule of thumb, and don't go starting off doing some crazy dose either.

25-30mg dbol ED (5mg with each meal) should be a good starting point for a first timer.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 15, 2004)

Hey mudge I was trying to do a clean bulk. I was going to keep my calories in 4k range to loose fat and gain lean mass. I have lost 6 lbs since last friday. probably mostly water since I have been sweating alot. I was going to run the cycle to add some mass up front then cut the last 8 weeks of it. My anxiety is really out of check right now so I'm going to stop. I guess its a motivation for me to drop some BF and get my anxiety under control. I have all the gear just waiting for the right time. I wonder if the Arimidex can cause any of the funny feelings I've been having. It wasn't until the day after my first inject(also the first day of arimidex) that I started to feel funny. Who knows. If I drop BW down to about 225lbs I will be around 12% BF. That should be ok to resume cycle then. Do you know of any anxiety meds that are common for juiced bodybuilders? I don't want to come out of friday and tell the doctor my future plans...but maybe I should. I dont want any interactions of drugs to mess up the next cycle attempt.


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## Mudge (Jun 15, 2004)

You can pick up a PDR (physicians desk reference) or there are some free listings online, but steroids dont interact with nearly anything you'd get your hands on.

How much dex were you using? I haven't had any anxiety issues with letro or femera so I dunno on that one.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 15, 2004)

I was using .5mg EOD. Arimidex. I was thinking of doing another injection today as scheduled then don't take any Arimidex to see if thats whats causing it. Yesterday was the last time I took the Arimidex and I still had some pretty intense anxiety today. So its still up in the air. Do you think I should hold off and just get myself in order before starting again? I know its a judgement call but I wanna know what you would do in my shoes.


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## ZorroAzul (Jun 15, 2004)

Trojan,  I don't know how severe your anxiety is, but a doc can definitely have it under control.   For bad cases they prescribe meds such as Xanax, Valium  and for less extreme and more psychologically related anxiety a new generation SSRI such as Paxil, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, etc.  will do wonders with zero to very few side effects.  Go to your doc, or better yet a therapist who will surely get you back on track.


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## Mudge (Jun 15, 2004)

I am not sure what I'd do, I never get anxiety from gear. Adex will last in the system for a few days, but at least it will die out in awhile.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 15, 2004)

Hey Zorro do you know if those drugs are still effective on gear? I don't know the actual cause for my anxiety. Its not that I am crazy or something. It just started about a year ago while watching movie. I had a panic attack. Don't know what brought it on but ever since then its got worse.

Mudge do you think chances are that the Adex is whats causing my issues more then the test would. I can't see how the test(something I already have anyways)would cause such a negative effect on me. I would have thought if anything more test would have made me feel better.


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## ZorroAzul (Jun 16, 2004)

Trojan I am not a Doc, but I haven't read anything about the interaction of gear with any of this stuff.

In fact, I still use sometimes .25 Xanax to go to sleep when I've had a lot of coffe at work.  that is 1/4 of a pill, really strong stuff!! and I can't see anyone functioning during their normal lives on this, unless their anxiety is really bad.  you can get it through the web no problem

I also suggest an SSRI such as Paxil CR, go to their website and read about it.   besides getting the best reviews out of them all, it is very fast acting, you'll feel the effects in a couple of days and not 5-6 weeks like the rest.

But I'd say you get a prescription for this, because it is pricey, about $90 for a 30-day supply if I am not mistaken...


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## Mudge (Jun 16, 2004)

TrojanMan60563 said:
			
		

> Mudge do you think chances are that the Adex is whats causing my issues more then the test would. I can't see how the test(something I already have anyways)would cause such a negative effect on me. I would have thought if anything more test would have made me feel better.


I really couldn't much say, I'd blame the test before arimidex but I think only you will find that out if you keep going with test and drop the dex like you have. I couldn't much guess that one.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 16, 2004)

Well I stopped the cycle all together with no PCT since I only injected twice. I am going to get the anxiety under control then hit the juice again.

Zorro the Xanax is something I have had before from an emergency room doc when I thought I was dying of a heart attack last year. That stuff is very strong. It makes you very mellow but its so strong it knocks me out. So does Clonapin. I guess the doc can give me a dose that will just knock out the anxiety without knocking me out with it


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## JerseyDevil (Jun 16, 2004)

T Man, I agree with your decision.  It would appear that the problem is the panic attacks, and not arimidex or test.  Bring that under control, and I think you are good to go.


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## ZorroAzul (Jun 16, 2004)

TrojanMan60563 said:
			
		

> Zorro the Xanax is something I have had before from an emergency room doc when I thought I was dying of a heart attack last year. That stuff is very strong. It makes you very mellow but its so strong it knocks me out.


I know, that's why I said I used it to sleep sometimes...    

Ask your Doc, but from reading your posts I would go with Paxil CR instead of getting on Xanax.  Xanax will create dependency, and will keep you mellow and with a "drugged out" feeling.

Paxil is not an instant remedy, takes a few days to work.  But it addresses anxiety from a different angle and it will NOT make you mellow, it will control your anxiety, raise your self-confidence and keep you in an overall happy mood.

Research carefully, and make a drug like Xanax your last option, perhaps you want to carry it around for a "just in case", but do not take it on a regular basis.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 16, 2004)

Thanks for the great advice Zorro. I am going to see doc on friday morning. We'll see what she says.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 16, 2004)

JD I think your right. When I get my anxiety fixed I will be well on my way then!


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## Michael D (Jun 18, 2004)

Is it possible the increase in test and estrogen are causing the panic attacks?  Maybe you weren't taking enough dex?


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 18, 2004)

I didn't have any estrogen sides. I think the anxiety was due to the whole injection/gear thing going through my mind. I did notice a change in my body as far as always feeling full and pumped. I felt like I was growing for like three days...like I could feel the muscles getting bigger.


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## ZorroAzul (Jun 21, 2004)

Trojan, so what did the doc tell you??  everything allright I hope....


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 21, 2004)

I over slept and was 15 minutes late. The doc said I could see her for 5 minutes or make another appointment. Obviously I'm going to pick the latter of the two. I am going this friday. I am going to make sure I am there early. I am shocked that you would follow up with me on that. I am thankful for guy here like you that show ya care. I will be sure to post on the site friday afternoon to update everyone of the docs findings. I really hope all is well and whatever is wrong is easily fixed so that I can get back on my cycle. I can't wait. On a brighter note my BP has been around 135/70 but heart rate is still around 75. Its lower, but I still want to get it down some more before I get back on. I think the cardio is really helping with that


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## Mudge (Jun 21, 2004)

I read not long ago that 72 or under is normal, so 75 is not so horrible but I am glad I'm well under that.

Do you watch your sodium at all? Thats one reason I watch water retention/bodyfat at least some.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 21, 2004)

I havn't been watching my sodium very well. I salt everything practically. I figured since I drink so much water it wouldn't matter. The past week or so I've been trying to limit the sodium. Thats what I think caused my drop in BP. I am going to continue to watch sodium levels. 

Just out of curiosity my first inject into my left delt developed a fairly good sized zit right where the injection was. I popped it a couple times. I thought that it may have been some sort of abcess but there is no pain, redness, or swelling of it. The zit has since gone away but there is a very little lump maybe the size of a bb under the skin where the injection/zit was. Is this anything to give a second thought to or is that probably some form of scar tissue do to the injection/slash huge zit?


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## Mudge (Jun 21, 2004)

Some time ago I just counted my sodium for the hey of it and I was 200% USRDA, that was maybe 18 months ago...

A little hardness at the injection site is pretty common, as long as it goes away relatively soon (couple days) that is normal. It also depends where you hit, ass takes the most abuse, and also where on the site you hit which comes with experience. Generally though I have good luck with delts, delts and ass are my 4 sites right now EOD.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 21, 2004)

on my delt I pretty much put it in dead center. So probably like the middle of the center delt. Is there a place you like to shoot best on your delt. When I get back in the game I will try it where you like it best. I did it in the same place on my right delt and no bump or anything. I was more worried about that since I had to suse my left hand to shoot being right handed. Then again my left delt was my first injection so maybe I didn't do as good of a job. After I pulled the pin out of my left delt it did leak some...that didn't happen on my right delt. Is it possible some juice was trapped between muscle and skin?


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## Mudge (Jun 21, 2004)

I go a little low and center or to the right/left, I still 'rotate' a little on the same site each time I hit that muscle. I can't go too high and I can't go too wide on the outside without hitting a lot of veins, but I know my sweet spots pretty much by now. I wouldn't worry about minute amounts of lost juice, it happens, especially with short pins. If you feel like it you could try pulling the skin before you stick in the pin, supposedly this helps.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 22, 2004)

Thanks Mudge. When I get back on I am going to try to use the different heads of the delt so avoid shooting same spot too often. Do you move around on your glutes? What about bi's? Have you done them and how do you do it? I've seen pictures of it but it seems like it would be painful, or I would do it wrong...have you tried pec shots?


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## Mudge (Jun 22, 2004)

I move around everywhere, just not a whole lot, there are definite sweet spots so I can't stray too far.

NEVER done biceps and dont really want too, tri I have done but not in a long while, hit a bad spot at least once that felt like a nerve somewhat, and lots of bleeding (for me).

Pecs I have done, dont use painfull gear there and after a bench day if you shoot it, I go outside on them. Overall they are not so bad, but a little sensative certainly compared to ass.


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## Power Rabbit (Jun 23, 2004)

any buldgeing muscle is really open for jabbing...youd be surprised how many different spots you can jab your lats(espically if you have a lifting partner that can help ya hit harder to reach parts

in terms of spots that i like to hit glute is fav...then lat...then pec etc

Pec looks scary since it looks like your stabbin at the ol heart, but its a gravy injection since everything is right infront of you where you can control the jab with both hands..


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## Mudge (Jun 23, 2004)

Lats? I always heard those were nasty, haven't tried (yet?)


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## JerseyDevil (Jun 23, 2004)

Mudge said:
			
		

> I can't go too high and I can't go too wide on the outside without hitting a lot of veins, but I know my sweet spots pretty much by now.


I hear that.  I'm learning my sweet spots now.  If I go high, and inside on delts, I go thru a vein or hit a nerve almost everytime. Almost everywhere else on the delt, no problem.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 23, 2004)

When I start up again hopefully in a couple weeks to a month I am going to hit the delts in a couple different spots, glutes, and quads. I hope to get two spots out of each muscle if possible to avoid oil build-up since I am injecting 1.5cc. On my last cycle attempt I only did one in each delt. I was dying to try the rest of them to see how I liked it. I actually was looking forward to each injection. I think I may get some more test so that I can do a little bit of a longer cycle. I want to start out with the test for atleast a week without issue before adding the dbol and deca in there. Chances are the deca isn't going to mess with me much at 300mg a week. The dbol should be very easy to diagnose if its causing problems since its active so fast. I thank my lucky stars that I chose to use prop this past cycle otherwise I would have suffered like hell for two weeks on enan or cyp.


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## Mudge (Jun 23, 2004)

You'll get way more than 2 spots out of delts. I'd say I have 2 inches right/left/up/down where I can move around on my "sweet spot," which is plenty of dart space. Of course its still localized trauma bit injecting in EXACTLY the same spot over and over again, especially with short esters, would  not be a wise idea I'd say.

One big plus for long esters right there, less 'abuse' on the bod.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 24, 2004)

Yeah the more injects the more scar tissue build up.....I'm thinking of using some prop to get going next time and if the sides are gone then I am going to switch to enan so that I can do a longer more comfortable cycle. I'll probably switch back to end the cycle with prop. We'll see how my doc visit goes tomorrow!


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 25, 2004)

Well I got back from my doctors a few minutes ago and they did blood work and some other exams. Well anyways I was told a healthy male my age 24 has a resting heart rate of 60-95. I was 84 today at my visit and I was told that is nothing to worry about. My BP however was 152/84 and I was told this was high. My anxiety was addressed as well. My doctor gave me two different meds to control my issues. She gave me Paxil for my anxiety, and Atenolol for BP. She told me these should control my anxiety, lower my BP, and heart rate. So it looks like this should kill three birds with two stones. Thats what I am hoping for so that I can get back on cycle. They are doing blood work to check thyroid,liver,kidney, and other stuff. I requested that if possible they check my test levels while they are at it. So if they can't get that in I will go back to have it checked. So anways I just wanted to let everyone know what happened. I'll keep everyone updated on the results of my meds and how its effects are on me.


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## ZorroAzul (Jun 25, 2004)

I knew Paxil was right for you...


what did they give you, Paxil or Paxil CR?  how many mg's?  if they gave you 25, you are better off getting samples for 12.5 for the first week, or you will feel bad!!

only drawback, the first month it is really hard to achieve orgasm during sex...  other than that my friend, you are on the right track, good for you.  You will be very happy with it!


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 26, 2004)

Its Paxil 20mg tabs. My doc has me taking 1 tab per day. My insurance makes me get the generics if its available. Its generic name is Paroxetine. I assume its the exact same drug. So what should I expect to happen on this stuff. I has told the effects from it are not instant and take time to kick in. How will I know that its in full effect?


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## ZorroAzul (Jun 26, 2004)

Trojan, on your next visit to the doc ask for Paxil CR  (controlled release)  it is their newest product, and better since it is time released. Paroxetine has a short half life in your system.

Effects will start to kick in in as little as 4 days, but it will take you around a month to stabilize. I guess that you will feel less anxiety, and more in control of your emotions. 

Some people experience severe side effects at the beginning, they vary greatly ( I suggest you go to www.askapatient.com and read people's experiences)   but almost always these side effects will last only for no more than a week, while your body adusts to Paroxetine.

I STRONGLY suggest you get a pill cutter and for the 1st week take 10 mg/day,  because some of these side effects even though they are short lived they are VERY hard.

best of luck!


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 29, 2004)

Well to update you all on how my BP is going on my anxiety and BP meds this morning when I got up I went down stairs and measured it right after going to the bathroom and taking care of business. After that I weighed myself. 255.5lbs. Then did a BP test and here are the results: 125/81 HR 69. That is down from average readings of like 150's/80's with HR in the 90's


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## Johnnny (Jun 29, 2004)

Isn't 12 weeks kind of long? Most users I know are on a cycle for no more than 2 months at a time with a 3 month break.


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## ZorroAzul (Jun 29, 2004)

Got my test results, everything A-ok!!  
Not 1 thing out of order, including Testosterone levels of 417..

Doctor commented on my good health, low BF and increase of 20 lbs muscle.. lol... I don't think he suspected anything!

Gotta go, have a cycle to start!


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 29, 2004)

Congrats Zorro good luck with that new cycle.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 29, 2004)

Johnny 12 weeks is not abnormal for cycle length unless you talking about orals only


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## Johnnny (Jun 29, 2004)

TrojanMan60563 


> Johnny 12 weeks is not abnormal for cycle length unless you talking about orals only


It just seemed to be 4 weeks longer than most cycles.

Most users I know aren't on their cycle even injectables for more than 8 weeks with a 3 month break or more before their next cycle.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 29, 2004)

Well 8 weeks is kinda short for drugs like Deca or test enanthate. They take half that amount of time to really get going in your body since they are a longer acting ester. Some people consider anything less then 10 weeks a waste of time if your on these type of long acting drugs. 8 weeks of being on test prop maybe an ok deal, but then again you'll getting effects within a day or two at the most.


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## Johnnny (Jun 29, 2004)

TrojanMan60563 


> Well 8 weeks is kinda short for drugs like Deca or test enanthate. They take half that amount of time to really get going in your body since they are a longer acting ester. Some people consider anything less then 10 weeks a waste of time if your on these type of long acting drugs. 8 weeks of being on test prop maybe an ok deal, but then again you'll getting effects within a day or two at the most.


Well like I said most users I know aren't on a cycle for more than 2 months maybe 3 on occasion but generally 2 months & they still get great results.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 29, 2004)

to each their own. but by most peoples standars 8 weeks is a bare minimum. Its somewhat proven that longer cycles give more keepable gains


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## Johnnny (Jun 29, 2004)

TrojanMan60563



> to each their own. but by most peoples standars 8 weeks is a bare minimum. Its somewhat proven that longer cycles give more keepable gains


Just curious, would you say that IFBB pro's are on cycles for more than 3 months? Or would they just stay on for 3 months at a time?


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 29, 2004)

I would venture to say that most pros are on more of the year then not. Thats a fact.


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## Johnnny (Jun 29, 2004)

TrojanMan60563



> I would venture to say that most pros are on more of the year then not. Thats a fact.


From what I've been told at that level, the IFBB pro's are on a Growth Hormone/Insulin stack many times throughout the year maybe 6 months out of the year. & then the months they aren't on GH/insulin stack they take regular anabolic steroids.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 30, 2004)

Thats probably pretty accurate.


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## Johnnny (Jun 30, 2004)

TrojanMan60563 


> Thats probably pretty accurate.


That's what Roy Callender said all the pro's do. He could even hook me up with GH if I wanted to pay for it. He had some vials of it in his office at the gym.

He's been to many of the recent contests in the 90's & a few from now & said that most of the pro's now he's met are GH/Insulin a good 6 months out of the periodically of course, not all at once & the times they aren't on that stack, they take regular anabolic steroids during their GH/Insulin stack break.


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## Michael D (Jun 30, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> TrojanMan60563
> 
> That's what Roy Callender said all the pro's do. He could even hook me up with GH if I wanted to pay for it. He had some vials of it in his office at the gym.
> 
> You might not want to disclose the name of the guy who can get you steroids.  For his sake at least.


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## Johnnny (Jun 30, 2004)

Michael D



> That's what Roy Callender said all the pro's do. He could even hook me up with GH if I wanted to pay for it. He had some vials of it in his office at the gym.
> 
> You might not want to disclose the name of the guy who can get you steroids. For his sake at least.


Well you're probably right & for that I aplogize, but it's not like it's a secret at that gym.

But he is smart about it & doesn't usually have items on hand & won't have anything for ppl he doesn't know or trust.

But nuff said about this.

But yeah most pro's in the IFBB are on the GH/Insulin stack probably for a good 6 months out of the year & the rest of the time they are on regular anabolics.


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## JerseyDevil (Jun 30, 2004)

What kind of shape is Roy still in?  He must be well into his 60's.  I know his best year was 1981 when he finished second to Chris Dickerson in the 1981 Mr. Olympia. Many people felt he should have won that contest.


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## Johnnny (Jun 30, 2004)

JerseyDevil



> What kind of shape is Roy still in? He must be well into his 60's. I know his best year was 1981 when he finished second to Chris Dickerson in the 1981 Mr. Olympia. Many people felt he should have won that contest.


He's 57 now, about the same age as Arnold. Yes that was one of his best years. Personally I think he should've won a lot more contests.

At my old gym there's pictures of Roy on stage next to the massive Lee Haney. As big as Roy is for his height & shape, Lee made Roy look small. I guess being taller does help.

But as for his current condition, I'd say he's still around 200lbs the last I heard last spring at 5ft8 & he doesn't train much.

He still has tree trunks for legs as he used to have a below parallel to the floor 600lb squat which was his best body part. & he has a believe it or not a very cute 20yr old girlfriend.

He doesn't train much, he does a lot of aerobic classes like step bo for the ladies. There's a lot of sexy older mature ladies as well as beautiful young girls. Lucky bastard.


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## mousie (Jun 30, 2004)

TrojanMan60563 said:
			
		

> Well to update you all on how my BP is going on my anxiety and BP meds this morning when I got up I went down stairs and measured it right after going to the bathroom and taking care of business. After that I weighed myself. 255.5lbs. Then did a BP test and here are the results: 125/81 HR 69. That is down from average readings of like 150's/80's with HR in the 90's


With that last part about the average readings of 150's/80s with HR in 90's...is that the average taken from mornings or just average in general (all day)?


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 30, 2004)

in general....the readings closer to 160/90 are more in the evening. Readings like 150/85 is common morning readings before the meds.


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## JerseyDevil (Jun 30, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> JerseyDevil
> He's 57 now, about the same age as Arnold. Yes that was one of his best years. Personally I think he should've won a lot more contests.
> 
> At my old gym there's pictures of Roy on stage next to the massive Lee Haney. As big as Roy is for his height & shape, Lee made Roy look small. I guess being taller does help.


Actually, after I posted that, I did a web search on Roy.  You never know about websites, but according to one that lists his birthdate he was born on 8/24/1940 in Barbados... meaning he is almost 64 years old!  It also stated he was 41 when he competed in the '81 Mr. O.

http://www.ironage.us/gallery/bodybuilders/callender.html


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## Johnnny (Jun 30, 2004)

JerseyDevil 


> Actually, after I posted that, I did a web search on Roy. You never know about websites, but according to one that lists his birthdate he was born on 8/24/1940 in Barbados... meaning he is almost 64 years old! It also stated he was 41 when he competed in the '81 Mr. O.


Yes he was born in Barbados & he also did some TV wrestling. I know a guy who is 50yrs old now at my new gym who wrestled with Roy before the bodybuilding.

Unless Roy has lied about his age I'm not sure. Sometimes things you find on the internet about ppl aren't always true.

Roy has a 24yr old or something in that range daughter who runs track I believe or used to.

But in 2000 he was around 55yrs old he told us. If he lied, it's possible.

But either way he is lookn' good & has a very cute 20yr old girlfriend.


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