# Legal Gear brand M1T



## Mudge (Dec 29, 2003)

Not much to report, but since I said I would report I will keep this first post of the thread updated as need be.

Only been 6 days so far, with a spot I may have been able to increase my bench a single rep but I really dont know. With some "other stuff" I can increase it a rep easily on my own, so its certainly not the best stuff I've tried but it is cheaper for sure.

20mg ED, I am going to move to 30mg ED after this 6th day of virtually no results. Weight remains unchanged at 230 pounds even (without a dietary change weight gain only comes from increased nitrogen retention). No more milk in the diet as of yesterday, so I have to increase carbs from other sources (pasta baby).

No side effects at all, no lethargy. Dont know if its my bodyweight or what but legal supplements have a history of doing nothing for me except a few (Ephedrine/Ultimate Orange, Ginkgo Biloba, the original Hot Stuff, heck thats all I can remember).

12-24 Day 1 @ 20mg
12-29 Flat bench 295x8 (366 estimated).

* No sides
* No weight increase
* Strength increase? Nothing on paper if at all
* Measurements the same

12-30 Day 1 @ 30mg (day 7 overall)

12-31 - I want to go home and SLEEP, seems like lethargy is here for the last couple days.


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## plouffe (Dec 29, 2003)

Damn. Maybe having cycled before with stronger / more potent compounds keep you from seeing gains with M 1-T?


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## Mudge (Dec 29, 2003)

Before I touched anything "special," 1-Test did nothing for me.

Creatine, nothing. Swole V2, nothing. I'm not a super heavyweight or anything but I'm not 160 pounds either, so that is the only thing I can really think of. Its possible that this stuff would work well but just not as well as what I came off of, I would not be supprised if that were the case. I have found one person running this stuff @ 40mg ED.

Even when I was younger, I had to run the Hot Stuff a bit on the high side to get much out of it, but it DID work. With Ultimate Orange I ran about 1.5x standard dose because of my weight (they had a scale to go off of).


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## plouffe (Dec 29, 2003)

Wow Mudge, I kinda feel bad for you for once.. hah


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## JerseyDevil (Dec 30, 2003)

Well the good news is you don't have any sides.... I felt the effects within a few days.  Strength gain however really kicked in the second week.  I did 20 mg ED first week, 30 mg ED second.  I gotta believe though Mudge that an experienced gear user, especially one coming off a cycle, is not going to see the type of gains us who are relatively new to androgens would.

I will be surprised if you don't notice _anything_ after another week at 30 mg.


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## Twin Peak (Dec 30, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> No side effects at all, no lethargy. Dont know if its my bodyweight or what but legal supplements have a history of doing nothing for me except a few (Ephedrine/Ultimate Orange, Ginkgo Biloba, the original Hot Stuff, heck thats all I can remember).



Mudge, I am much the same way.  Indeed, at 30 mg a day, I experienced no sides.  It also took some time for the M1T to have positive body comp effects.

Hang in there, and recall my comments (as well as Dante's and Prolangtum's) on dosage.


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## Mudge (Dec 30, 2003)

I will go ahead with 30mg, and I try to keep in mind that even dbol doesn't start being felt for most until 4/5 days.

I'm also the guy who never felt anything from ephedra but the mildest of effects, ephedrine though - loved it.


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## Twin Peak (Dec 30, 2003)

I feel nothing from Ephedrine, unless doses are through the roof.


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## Mudge (Dec 30, 2003)

Even 25mg does something for me, but 50mg is pretty nice. Ultimate Orange ultimately though worked better even though 25mg is part of the standard dose, dont even remember what else was in there.


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## prolangtum (Dec 30, 2003)

I usually have to down 75-100mgs of ephedrine for a Pre WO stimulant affect.


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## Mudge (Dec 30, 2003)

I used just enough to remove any tiredness type feeling, since at the time I was using it I had to go to the gym freaking after midnight.


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## Mudge (Dec 30, 2003)

> By DrtyJrzyGuy
> 
> I finsihed a four week cycle of m1t from kilosports about 2 weeks ago, i ran 20mged for four weeks because i THOUGHT i was having no sides. . . Then the pain started to increase. . . i orginally attributed the pain in my back as well as abdominal area to the lower back pains people complain about. . .but then i just started feeling like something just wasn't right with me. . . figured it was the flue and went to the doc to see what was up. . . After getting blood tests we found that my liver values where absolutly horrible. . . I'll scan in the sheet when i get home later tonight. Basically many of the values are more than triple what the absolute worst should be. I soon started having chronic vomitting and such, and have been feeling worse by the day. After getting a cat scan we discovered that my liver has been physically damaged, more than likely due to the use of the m1t according to my doctor. Basically there is lines of fat going through my liver, which my doctor stress's is only common in a few people, those who are alcoholics for many years and those who abuse anabolic steroids. . .
> 
> ...


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## PreMier (Dec 30, 2003)

Whats your thoughts on that post Mudge?


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## Power Rabbit (Dec 30, 2003)

Stuff hits people in all sorta different ways. Side effects, results, etc. Figureing out how you will do on PH's or gear aint an exact science. 

Im not sayin it aint harsh on the liver. M1t is pretty much a 17aa steroid(meaning very liver harsh), but it hasnt killed everyone who has taken it. This poor guy just isnt lucky.


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## Mudge (Dec 30, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by PreMier *_
> Whats your thoughts on that post Mudge?



I feel for the guy but I cannot believe he obtained a fatty liver in 4 weeks. I think he had this issue and didn't know about it beforehand.

It would pay to get a blood test, especially if you have been a heavy drinker at any point in your life. Some people seem near invincible (George Burns, Rasputin the Mad Monk) and yet others aren't so lucky.


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## PreMier (Dec 30, 2003)

George Burns was a bad ass.  Always had a drink in one hand and a cigar in the other.  Those are some good genes right there.  I want to get a blood test just to see my Blood Pressure and Colesterol levels.  I dont even know my blood type


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## Mudge (Dec 30, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Power Rabbit *_
> M1t is pretty much a 17aa steroid(meaning very liver harsh), but it hasnt killed everyone who has taken it. This poor guy just isnt lucky.



It is a 17aa steroid yes, I think he was just un-lucky. Not to belittle his problems of course.


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## JerseyDevil (Dec 31, 2003)

If he really believes it was the M1T, then I hope he posts this and a follow up on several of the prohormone boards. I feel for the guy, that's awful.  I  bet it was something pre-existing and the M1T may have caused it to accelerate.

There is a guy on AM that works in a lab and can do his own blood work.  He is currently doing a M1T cycle of 20 mg ED and 6-7 days in his liver enyzmes are just slightly elevated.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12132


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## Mudge (Dec 31, 2003)

Exactly, we have seen people test with heavy anadrol cycles and they are slightly above normal. I say genetic predisposition, which really sucks for the guy.

Even if he were drinking like a maniac 4 weeks is not going to take down many people at all.


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## Mudge (Dec 31, 2003)

Well I can't edit my post at the top, bummer.

12-31 - I want to go home and SLEEP, seems like lethargy is here for the last couple days.

About 25 hours post arm-workout I have a solid 1/8th inch increase. If this increases the same next week then thats not too shabby.


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## prolangtum (Dec 31, 2003)

Mudge, If lethargy is too much, you may want to try out methyldienolone. Sldg has the powder for $14 a gram. I should be trying some out next week, I too had extreme lethargy, it hit me about day 2, and kicked my ass from there on out.


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## Mudge (Dec 31, 2003)

I am trying very hard to ignore the green meanies I have at home my brother   I'm going to try and last at least 2 weeks since this is how everyone else is generally cycling it.


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## prolangtum (Dec 31, 2003)

Ah sweet anadrol. That is my favorite oral. Dbol, winny, nah. Gimme drol. I do not bloat up very badly, strength is insane. But I do have to usually take mine at night, it kills my appetite.


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## Mudge (Dec 31, 2003)

Yessir, the allmighty drol.


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## Twin Peak (Dec 31, 2003)

Hmmmm.


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## Mudge (Dec 31, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Hmmmm.



So says you!


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## Twin Peak (Dec 31, 2003)

Eh?  What was it you think my "Hmmm" meant?


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## Mudge (Dec 31, 2003)

I really have no idea, it was a "hmmm" and not "hmmph..."


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## Twin Peak (Dec 31, 2003)

Exactly.  But you responded as if it was the latter.


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## Mudge (Dec 31, 2003)

It was my confusing nonsensible reply to what I felt was the same  (confusing)  With my magic 8 ball out of commision, I dont always read people, so sometimes I am left clueless.


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## Twin Peak (Dec 31, 2003)

Hmmm, meaning "interesting...."


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## Twin Peak (Dec 31, 2003)

I never judge.  Shame on you.


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## ZECH (Dec 31, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Hmmm, meaning "interesting...."


It's just him not using smilies!


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## ZECH (Dec 31, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> 
> 
> 12-31 - I want to go home and SLEEP, seems like lethargy is here for the last couple days.


I added this at the top for you............


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## Mudge (Dec 31, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I never judge.  Shame on you.



Hmmmph would have been the judgemental one   I really didn't know what you had meant. I'm slow remember, S - L - O - H - W

Anyhow, I'll give it one more week, obviously I wont throw away whatever is left over but we'll see how it goes @ 30mg ED.

Thanks DG


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## ZECH (Dec 31, 2003)

I wanted to add a post at the beginning, to make yours the second, so you can edit it, but I don't see anyway to do it. If you want something added to it, just send it to me.


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## Mudge (Dec 31, 2003)

It would just be easier to track progress if everything was in the first post. There is a 1440 minute limit now (1 day) for editing


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## Power Rabbit (Dec 31, 2003)

grr...i was hopeing for legal drol...dosent seem m1t is gonna be that


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## PreMier (Dec 31, 2003)

Maybe brand differences?  People who got theirs from Kilosport are showing HUGE gains... But who knows?


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## Mudge (Dec 31, 2003)

Could be materials yes, who knows. I figure 2 weeks is fair enough for me, I am running 30mg now. I too was hoping for "legal drol," some people dont claim big weight gains yet plenty have, and that is exactly what I was hoping for (but not seeing).

I am at about 4200 calories a day and really most of the time I dont look forward to eating. To go beyond this amount of food I would need to look for something calorically dense yet smaller in volume, especially since I dropped milk from my diet which is almost like free calories since it replaced about half my water intake.

Oatmeal compared to my pasta by volume is a noticeable difference, the pasta is easier to eat in caloric quanity.


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## MaddCapp (Jan 1, 2004)

Mudge

Just wondering ... why'd you drop milk from your diet?


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## Mudge (Jan 1, 2004)

Doesn't seem to agree with my digestive system, I had symptoms of milk rotting in my gut (gas, etc). I grew up drinking a lot of milk so its somewhat funny, but according to what I've read thats what happens when you stop drinking it for 6 months or so and then go back to it.


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## Arnold (Jan 1, 2004)

you know that is interesting...I started my cutting diet a week or so ago, and I dropped milk except for 3/4 cup in the morning with my oatmeal, and I have noticed very little flatulance lately.


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## MaddCapp (Jan 1, 2004)

That sux ... 
I drink quite a bit of milk.  I get tired of eating as it is (only 3200-3500 cal/D)  - can't imagine if I had to eat my milk pro/carbs.


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## Mudge (Jan 1, 2004)

Thats the thing, milk or milk + cereal makes me gassy now.

I was doing up to a gallon a day, usually only 2/3 or 3/4 or so. I am considering 8 meals possibly in the future, because even eating at my modest level it is getting a bit bothersome after I eat. Sometimes less sometimes more. Each meal for me is about 700 calories on the average. For as long as 1-2 hours after I eat I am a bit on the full side, so its really not eating because your hungry but because "its time."


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## nacnac972 (Jan 1, 2004)

Lactose intolerance?


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## Arnold (Jan 1, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by nacnac972 *_
> Lactose intolerance?



No, not me, from what I have heard from those that are they get severe stomach pain and cramping.


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## nacnac972 (Jan 1, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> No, not me, from what I have heard from those that are they get severe stomach pain and cramping.


Common symptoms include nausea, cramps, bloating, gas, and diarrhea, which begin about 30 minutes to 2 hours after eating or drinking foods containing lactose. The severity of symptoms varies depending on the amount of lactose each individual can tolerate.


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## Mudge (Jan 1, 2004)

And again people claim that it occurs in adults in about 6 months after milk consumption is stopped (intollerance to it).


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## nacnac972 (Jan 1, 2004)

I can't have straight milk but cheeses are ok.It's a very commen condition.


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## Arnold (Jan 1, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by nacnac972 *_
> Common symptoms include nausea, cramps, bloating, gas, and diarrhea, which begin about 30 minutes to 2 hours after eating or drinking foods containing lactose. The severity of symptoms varies depending on the amount of lactose each individual can tolerate.



you could have at least added the link to where you copied that from: http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/lactoseintolerance/index.htm


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## nacnac972 (Jan 1, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> you could have at least added the link to where you copied that from: http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/lactoseintolerance/index.htm


I did look that up for informational purposes figured people could tell It was and internet write up.I am no expert and I am not claiming to be just trying to help.


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## Arnold (Jan 1, 2004)

I just meant to give credit to the site/author, and to allow us to see the rest of the info on it.


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## SJ69 (Jan 1, 2004)

In some people if there is no lactose present, the quit making the enzyme needed to digest lactose.  I've heard that in some cases you can reintroduce lactose gradually and your body will begin to produce the enzymes needed.


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## Arnold (Jan 1, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by SJ69 *_
> In some people if there is no lactose present, the quit making the enzyme needed to digest lactose.  I've heard that in some cases you can reintroduce lactose gradually and your body will begin to produce the enzymes needed.



makes sense, I have heard the same thing with veggetarians that eat meat after prolonged periods.


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## nacnac972 (Jan 1, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> I just meant to give credit to the site/author, and to allow us to see the rest of the info on it.


I gotcha Prince in the future I will give a link  and credit to anything I post that is not my words.


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## Mudge (Jan 2, 2004)

12-24 Day 1 @ 20mg
12-29 Flat bench 295x8 (366 estimated).

* No sides
* No weight increase
* Strength increase? Nothing on paper if at all
* Measurements the same

12-30 Day 1 @ 30mg (day 7 overall)

12-31 - I want to go home and SLEEP, seems like lethargy is here for the last couple days. (Gym shut at 5, no workout)

1-01-04 Gym shut, no workout

*1-02-04 Friday Day 9*

Lethargy seems to be much better.

Bodyweight 232, up 2 pounds, I will measure in the morning. I am basically full almost all day long from the food I eat and water I consume. New PR/PB on bench 315x6, no serious struggle but not as easy as 315x5 the last time I went at it. This is worth about 6 pounds over my 295x8 so while its great to have another rep, after 11 days I'm not terribly excited about it.

So if I were to talk about how effective M1T is versus prop/fina/anadrol:

10 pounds very 5 days (2/day) versus 6 pounds over 9 days (.67/day) we see that what I believed to be my crappy anadrol is 2.98 times as effective in terms of strength gains. Before anyone feels the need to bring it up, it is illegal without a prescription (and is extremely costly in the US if purchased legally, $15 a tab if you order 100 at a time). If you think the supplement industry is bad, the drug companies have dying patients firmly by the balls.

I am going to try my best to complete the next 5 days, but so far I am not impressed, again in comparison to the 'other stuff.' For a legal though its the best thing I've tried yet


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 2, 2004)

My major strength gains happened at the end of week 2 and into week 3, but I haven't touched any of the "good stuff" yet so I have no means to compare.


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## Mudge (Jan 2, 2004)

I'll have to review your thread again.


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## Power Rabbit (Jan 2, 2004)

Your only running it 2 weeks? Mudge my man, you were the one that convinced me longer cycles are generally better. Plus the best results Ive seen from other posts were in about the time frame Dale saw em... Im thinking 3-5 weeks is a better m1t cycle than the 2 weeks alot of companies are reccomending.


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## oaktownboy (Jan 2, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Power Rabbit *_
> Your only running it 2 weeks? Mudge my man, you were the one that convinced me longer cycles are generally better. Plus the best results Ive seen from other posts were in about the time frame Dale saw em... Im thinking 3-5 weeks is a better m1t cycle than the 2 weeks alot of companies are reccomending.


this stuff is a lot stonger though bro..GP has recommended 2 weeks on ..1 week off ..repeat ...i believe


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## Power Rabbit (Jan 2, 2004)

Thats true..but hes used to gear...and has gear PCT at his disposal... It aint like hes gonna fight a big shutdown with 6oxo...plus I forget, but isnt this a frontload for a gear cycle Mudge??


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## Mudge (Jan 2, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Power Rabbit *_
> Your only running it 2 weeks? Mudge my man, you were the one that convinced me longer cycles are generally better.



I've been on for awhile man and probably wont be off for around 4 months more or so. So correct, no more short stuff for me, but I wont run something if I have better lying around - so I will just play it by ear I guess. I am already at the point where I lose slowly when I come off, so I just end up playing catch up coming back on, but also I have always run "low" dose stuff.

Obviously I would not throw it away, I would just end up burning it up down the road with whatever I had left.


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## prolangtum (Jan 3, 2004)

I dont think 2 on 1 off is a good protocol, maybe 2 on 2 off at least, M 1T will cause a nice bit of supression in only two weeks


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 5, 2004)

Well Mudge, what's the word turd?


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## Twin Peak (Jan 5, 2004)

Just an FYI, but I am starting a series of mini-cycles on M1T and some other compounds today.  Given the interest in this area, I'll likely start up a Supp related journal some time today -- for those who are interested.


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## Mudge (Jan 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> Well Mudge, what's the word turd?



It takes 6 days for me to complete a training cycle, so nothing really new to report. Same old same old, lethargy is much better, but overall I am not really excited about this stuff - but again thats compared to Anadrol primarily which puts an easy 10 pounds on my bench every time I sit down. I have some green giants I am dying to try, then I can do some real comparisons.

My my quicky calculations this stuff is 1/3 as effective as the drol, and I believe my drol to have been under dosed, but dunno until I can compare to the greens.


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 5, 2004)

Nice TP, can't wait to see the protocol.

Mudge, I would be interested to see the compasrison as well.


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## Power Rabbit (Jan 5, 2004)

1/3 aint bad...they are less than 1/3 the price of drol...


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## Mudge (Jan 5, 2004)

Absolutely correct, but I do like faster results thats for sure, 6 or so pounds on my bench is a bit of a snooze comparitively. I had no real sides from the anadrol that I did run, M1T hit me harder in terms of sides (lethargy), but thats life. Maybe I will try 40mg next time


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## Twin Peak (Jan 5, 2004)

Mudge, is that you in the avatar? 

BTW, 6 pounds is impressive, if its a steady increase.  As an isolated instance, not so impressive.


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## Mudge (Jan 5, 2004)

True, but it was 1/3 of the strength gains comparitively. I was a big fan of Paul Demayo, underappreciated IMO.


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## PreMier (Jan 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by oaktownboy *_
> this stuff is a lot stonger though bro..GP has recommended 2 weeks on ..1 week off ..repeat ...i believe




Close...   But it is 2 on, 1 off, 2 on, 2 off, 2 on, 3 off.  Thats with taking 10mg twice daily for on weeks.  Off weeks you should be taking 3 pills of 6-oxo daily.


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## Mudge (Jan 5, 2004)

*1-05-04 Monday (Day 12)*

Delts - Traps - Neck

Bodyweight is 234 making for a total of 4 pounds increase, I did not hit the gym sunday so I weighed myself about 6 times to make sure (normally I weigh myself 2-3 times). I will see if I am awake enough to measure in the morning to find out where it went. Uncomfortable pumps tonight in my lower back and right rear delt.

So far, I would say if you are 200 pounds or more dont bother with 20mg unless you are a 'virgin' or feel you respond well to things  My lifts are not going up tremendously but they are going up, I dont feel weak at all in the gym.


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## plouffe (Jan 5, 2004)

So Mudge is the DEVIL!


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## plouffe (Jan 7, 2004)

I thought it was pretty funny?


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## PreMier (Jan 7, 2004)




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## Mudge (Jan 7, 2004)

*1-07-04 Wednesday (Day 14)
Final Update*

Bodyweight unchanged (234 - 4 pounds net 'gain'), I attribute this 100% to eating, not M1T. Other than water weight I have never gained "magical weight" from anything that I could decipher, including anadrol or dbol. 1/8th inch on the arms total during this period, gut is about the same. I usually only measure arms because everything else follows. It takes me about 15-20 pounds to see an inch.

I have felt tired and crappy most of the early part of the day. I came home, napped, and felt much better but it was still an off feeling day. All in all, bench press went down 1/2 rep. Do I believe that I would have gotten 7 reps instead of my normal 6? No, I dont think today had that much of an effect on me, however 5 1/2 reps was the outcome. I got as amped as I could, I brought my hard hitting music, but it was not to be and I dont believe I would have had 7 even if I felt much better.

So in closing, 20mg first week, 30mg second week split into 10mg doses through the day. All in all, yet another 'supplement' that leaves me dissapointed, but now it is only an afterthought because I expect failure from nearly everything off the shelf and that is just a reality based on my experiences.

I dont regret the experience, but again it was nothing exciting for me personally. I would also add the most excited people I have seen over the product have always been admins/owners talking about board sponsors, but I will let you guess what I could assume about that.

Next time I touch the bottle bottle, 40mg ED probably.


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## nacnac972 (Jan 7, 2004)

Thanks Mudge for the report.Do you think the fact that you have used the "Real Deal"several times affected your gains?Or do you just think M1T is way hyped up?


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## Mudge (Jan 7, 2004)

M1T is by all means "the real deal," but even 30mg dbol does almost nothing for me except give me pumps, and 2 weeks is hardly enough time to see anything. I am not a monster but I am well outside of where I was naturally speaking, comparitively I am a monster. I can take my old max bench of 265 and close grip it for 10 reps.

So what is my belief for this not working? All I can say is I respond better to more and longer, I dont really know if there were any other factors at play here. I have seen others running 40mg, and yet some people freak out as if that is going to kill them because this is "so powerfull" that only 5-20mg should be used.

I fail to see that this was all powerfull obviously, that makes me just laugh. Maybe brand is an issue here, if so that would be dissapointing to see a company putting out a somewhat bunk product.


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## prolangtum (Jan 8, 2004)

I think you, TP and I all dont respond well to many things. Im think higher dosages for you would be the way to go as well. I may try it again at 50mgs ed after a run with methydienolone.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 8, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by prolangtum *_
> I think you, TP and I all dont respond well to many things. Im think higher dosages for you would be the way to go as well. I may try it again at 50mgs ed after a run with methydienolone.



Agreed.  Mudge, I think you just bought into the hype (i.e. people yelling that 5 mg ED was plenty).  More and longer would be necessary for many of us.  Dante is another example.  

But....check out today's update, which is interesting.


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## Mudge (Jan 8, 2004)

Well I'm glad I'm not alone then, its always been this way with supplements. Even things I like, I typically run more than normal, 1.5-2x etc


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