# Nandrolone and Tren - cycle, or combine?



## Built (Jul 23, 2010)

I have a question regarding the proper use of deca and tren ace in a cutting cycle. 

A buddy of mine is running 500mg test cyp and 300mg deca, and would like to bring in tren ace when he transitions into a modest cut (he's fairly lean even while bulking, under 13% by my eye).  This is not his first cycle and he's in his late twenties, 6' and about 230 lbs, trains well and hard, and he's gaining well. No gyno or other sides.

I've read conflicting opinions on this so I figured I'd ask the people here whom I trust the most:* How should he bring in the tren ace, and at what dose? Should he drop the deca, or does this matter?*


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## independent (Jul 23, 2010)

The tren will have to be run with test if he doesnt want libido issues.  I would assume running deca and tren only would be cause for epic penis failure.


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## XYZ (Jul 23, 2010)

bigmoe65 said:


> The tren will have to be run with test if he doesnt want libido issues. I would assume running deca and tren only would be cause for epic penis failure.


 

+1

I would drop the deca 1-2 weeks before starting the tren. How many times has he used tren? Is he going to use the same amount of test?


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## Built (Jul 23, 2010)

Ah, I knew this was the right place to ask. To clarify, this is a buddy of mine; he knows to run the test at 500mg/week (pinned twice a week) as a base and no, he hasn't run tren before. 

Why does it matter if he drops the deca - or does it? He's liking the effect deca's having on joint pain in his shoulder. 

If he leaves the deca in, how much tren should he add, and should he reduce the deca at all when he does this?


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## XYZ (Jul 23, 2010)

Built said:


> Ah, I knew this was the right place to ask. To clarify, this is a buddy of mine; he knows to run the test at 500mg/week (pinned twice a week) as a base and no, he hasn't run tren before.
> 
> Why does it matter if he drops the deca - or does it? He's liking the effect deca's having on joint pain in his shoulder.
> 
> If he leaves the deca in, how much tren should he add, and should he reduce the deca at all when he does this?


 

If he has too much of a 19nor in his system (more than or equal to the amount of test mg vs. mg) there is a very strong possibility of having libido issues that only cialis can correct, and then at that point if he can maintain an erection he won't be able to finish. 

The TOTAL mg of both compounds should be less than the 500mg of test weekly, and might even have to be lower? Everyone is different.

If it were me I would drop the deca 10 days before starting the tren. Then I would use the tren at 50mg ED NOT EOD. Having ED injections keeps blood levels stable and reduces sides to almost none, in my limited tren experience. Use the slin pin method for this as it will reduce scar tissue with ED injections.


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## Built (Jul 23, 2010)

ChocolateThunder, thank you for this. I'll tell him to finish his deca and then start the tren as you suggest - and agreed on the slin pin. Good call.


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## independent (Jul 23, 2010)

ChocolateThunder said:


> If he has too much of a 19nor in his system (more than or equal to the amount of test mg vs. mg) there is a very strong possibility of having libido issues that only cialis can correct, and then at that point if he can maintain an erection he won't be able to finish.
> 
> The TOTAL mg of both compounds should be less than the 500mg of test weekly, and might even have to be lower? Everyone is different.
> 
> If it were me I would drop the deca 10 days before starting the tren. Then I would use the tren at 50mg ED NOT EOD. Having ED injections keeps blood levels stable and reduces sides to almost none, in my limited tren experience. Use the slin pin method for this as it will reduce scar tissue with ED injections.




Yes, but it depends on what esther tren he is using.  If he goes with enanthate he only has to pin once a week, twice he if wants to.  Tell him to pin his test once a week also, no reason to pin twice a week at that dosage. Imho.


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## Built (Jul 23, 2010)

bigmoe, thanks for this - the ester does of course matter for pinning frequency. I mentioned the ester - it'll be tren ace.


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## independent (Jul 23, 2010)

Built said:


> bigmoe, thanks for this - the ester does of course matter for pinning frequency. I mentioned the ester - it'll be tren ace.



I just reread that. Cheers.


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## blergs. (Jul 23, 2010)

i wouldent do both.
higher chance of prog sides.
also trens so fuking strong why bother with deca at same time.
if anything slightly higher your trendose and test dose.
if anything 100mg deca in there for joint/back supporte maybe i oculd see.

but id just stck to trenE and testE myself.


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## Built (Jul 23, 2010)

Okay, thanks blergs - I've got him over my shoulder reading this and that's very helpful.
This is what he's currently running:

500mg test pinned @ 250mg twice a week
300mg deca pinned @ 150mg twice a week with the test

He's actually considering bringing up the test dose a smidge (his amps are 300mg/ml), and he'd like to keep in some deca for the shoulder pain, so how about this:

600mg test pinned @ 300mg twice a week
100mg deca pinned @ 50mg twice a week with the test
50mg tren ace pinned ED

Sound good? Anyone? Anyone? 

Bueller?


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## bigrene (Jul 23, 2010)

Thats almost Identical to cycle Im just finishing. I didnt run any ai during my cycle and got no gyno acne or limp dick. Also was taking L arginine amongst other supps.This was my cycle also running the tren ace in beginning sets it off nice so when you cut the tren out about week 8 the deca kicked in right then it was awesome. Strength gains came in nice even at the end.

Sus 500 ew 1-5
Test E  500 ew 6-16
Tren A 50 eod 1-8
Deca 300 ew 1-10

Some weeks I did bump test up to 750 but this cycle was GTG.


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## Built (Jul 23, 2010)

Excellent. Thanks bigrene.


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## bigrene (Jul 23, 2010)

Built said:


> Excellent. Thanks bigrene.



No problem I too heard,read all the talk of mixing the two but if you keep the doses low I didnt see problems Im sure people saying they had problems were  dosing deca too high or test too low.


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## Built (Jul 23, 2010)

He's liking the deca for his joints, and the tren is to harden up a bit. He doesn't seem to have any trouble with progestins - I know some do, but some don't and he's one of 'em. He ran deca by itself before and had no trouble - but I hear you Richard Gears and I'm passing all this along to him - thanks for the warning. 

(as an aside, I don't think hubby minds too much if my buddies have trouble getting it up LMAO!)


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## G3 (Jul 24, 2010)

I hate to ask a nooby question but what is the slim pin method? Are you guys just using a small gauge needle and plunging slower?


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## Built (Jul 24, 2010)

buybb3, not "slim" pin but "slin" pin, as in "insulin". With a very small shot like this, you can pull a tiny bit of oil through a slin pin and not spend your lifetime trying to draw. The fine gauge means you won't get a whole pile of daily scar tissue from the injections.


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## OfficerFarva (Jul 24, 2010)

Built said:


> buybb3, not "slim" pin but "slin" pin, as in "insulin". With a very small shot like this, you can pull a tiny bit of oil through a slin pin and not spend your lifetime trying to draw. The fine gauge means you won't get a whole pile of daily scar tissue from the injections.



Does this mean you're injecting Sub Q though?  I've never heard of the slin method either.


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## Built (Jul 24, 2010)

It would be deep sub-q, and I hadn't either until heavyiron mentioned it a few months back.


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## OfficerFarva (Jul 24, 2010)

Do you have any links to something to read up on this.  I always thought injections had to be IM, not Sub-q.


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## Built (Jul 24, 2010)

Here's one: Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pil... [Saudi Med J. 2006] - PubMed result

And a discussion thread from another forum about it: Subcutaneous Testosterone Injections - The Definitive Mind - Forums


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## OfficerFarva (Jul 24, 2010)

Nice, thanks for the info Built.  This is pretty interesting stuff, hopefully more studies are done on this.


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## Mike09100 (Jul 24, 2010)

The tren will be fine with deca as long as he adjusts his test dosage accordingly. Or as mentioned, he can drop deca 2 weeks prior and then being tren. either way.


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## G3 (Jul 25, 2010)

Built said:


> buybb3, not "slim" pin but "slin" pin, as in "insulin". With a very small shot like this, you can pull a tiny bit of oil through a slin pin and not spend your lifetime trying to draw. The fine gauge means you won't get a whole pile of daily scar tissue from the injections.


 

Thanks Built. Nice Abs BTW!


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## XYZ (Jul 26, 2010)

Built said:


> It would be deep sub-q, and I hadn't either until heavyiron mentioned it a few months back.


 
No, it's IM.


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## Built (Jul 26, 2010)

It's shallow IM/deep sub-q depending upon bodyfat - at least, according to my doctor (it's how I pin B-12). It's tough to get a slin pin deep enough to hit muscle unless you're very lean.


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## XYZ (Jul 26, 2010)

Built said:


> It's shallow IM/deep sub-q depending upon bodyfat - at least, according to my doctor (it's how I pin B-12). It's tough to get a slin pin deep enough to hit muscle unless you're very lean.


 

You can't really use it IM unless you're lean enough.


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## Built (Jul 26, 2010)

You're the one who said it's IM.


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## XYZ (Jul 26, 2010)

Built said:


> You're the one who said it's IM.


 

I know I did.

Problem is if you're going to use it in a body part that isn't lean (not coverd by 20% BF) it's not going to be deep enough.  I would hope that anyone who is using AAS isn't in the 20% range.


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## Built (Jul 26, 2010)

Unless they're female.


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## ROID (Jul 26, 2010)

would there be a problem if you only injected subQ ?

I've always just assumed it would take longer to absorb.


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## Kirk B (Jul 26, 2010)

ChocolateThunder said:


> If he has too much of a 19nor in his system (more than or equal to the amount of test mg vs. mg) there is a very strong possibility of having libido issues that only cialis can correct, and then at that point if he can maintain an erection he won't be able to finish.
> 
> The TOTAL mg of both compounds should be less than the 500mg of test weekly, and might even have to be lower? Everyone is different.
> 
> If it were me I would drop the deca 10 days before starting the tren. Then I would use the tren at 50mg ED NOT EOD. Having ED injections keeps blood levels stable and reduces sides to almost none, in my limited tren experience. Use the slin pin method for this as it will reduce scar tissue with ED injections.



yo how do you use a slin needle with juice i need to know how to get that shit threw that tiny gauge?


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## Built (Jul 26, 2010)

You can draw it, it just draws very, very slowly.


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## XYZ (Jul 27, 2010)

Built said:


> You can draw it, it just draws very, very slowly.


 

That is not correct, the oil is way too thick.


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## XYZ (Jul 27, 2010)

Kirk B said:


> yo how do you use a slin needle with juice i need to know how to get that shit threw that tiny gauge?


 

1.  Use a 3ml syringe with an 18g 1.5inch needle.
2.  Draw 1ml of whatever you're using.  YOU CAN ONLY USE 1ML.
3.  Set the 3ml syringe down with the cap over the needle.
4.  Open a 1ml insulin syringe.
5.  Pull the plunger completely out.
6.  Pick up the 3ml syringe, take the cap off the needle and push the oil out into the insulin syringe.
7.  CAREFULLY put the plunger back on the insulin syringe, be sure the rubber end is the only part of the plunger that is in the barrell.
8.  Set the 3ml syringe aside.
9.  Turn the insulin syringe upside down.  The needle should face the ceiling.
10. Flick the barrell to push up any air bubbles.
11. Slowly push the plunger up to eliminate the air trapped inside.
12. Done.


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## ROID (Jul 27, 2010)

Kirk B said:


> yo how do you use a slin needle with juice i need to know how to get that shit threw that tiny gauge?



you can buy 30g 1/2 pins to interchange with your syringe.

Draw with a larger gauge and switch.

seems like a better option


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## pieguy (Aug 12, 2011)

Sorry to bump an old thread but has anybody ever used higher than 25g needles? Can you draw with an 18g and inject with a 27g or 30g 1" for oils? I'm currently using 22g and they're pretty damn big.


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## GMO (Aug 12, 2011)

pieguy said:


> Sorry to bump an old thread but has anybody ever used higher than 25g needles? Can you draw with an 18g and inject with a 27g or 30g 1" for oils? I'm currently using 22g and they're pretty damn big.


 
Yes, you can even back-fill a 29ga insulin syringe. Do a search for "slin-pin method"...there was a good thread on here about that a couple of months ago.


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