# TP's M1T Cycles, and other junk



## Twin Peak (Jan 5, 2004)

I thought I'd take the time to document my mini-cycle experimentation.  This is my continued comeback from shoulder surgery, so exercises and weights are severely limited.  I am 18 weeks post-op, and have lost about 5-10 pounds of muscle.  This is a supplement review log, so while I will post my nutrition and training protocols, they are to put my supplementation and progress (or lack thereof) in context.  Please, no training or diet questions unless they directly relate to my supplement protocol (i.e. why are you training each BP twice while on, but once while off, is fine, but why are you doing XXXX for back, is not).

So we begin:

*SUPPLEMENTATION*

Two Weeks: M1T 30 mg daily; 3 grams of 4-OHT added to FL7 (12 squirts daily); 25 mcg T3; 4000 kcals+; training protocol A

Other supps: 
   - Vendetta, and Go pre-workout; as well as E/C/Y
   - Kreatine Ultra and GO during WO
   - 50g Whey and 25g dextrose post-wrokout
   - 10-15g fish oil 
   - milk thistle and NAC (and other liver support crap)
   - transdermal ALA
   - ALCAR, L-Carnosine, MSM, Glucosamine, Chonsdrotin

*>>>>Two Weeks Off *** at 3500 kcals*

Two Weeks:  M1T 30 mg daily, SO+ 12 squirts am only, 3 grams of 4-OHT added to FL7 (12 squirts daily); 25 mcg T3; 4000 kcals+; training protocol A

Other supps: 
   - Vendetta, and Go pre-workout; as well as E/C/Y
   - Kreatine Ultra and GO during WO
   - 50g Whey and 25g dextrose post-wrokout
   - 10-15g fish oil 
   - milk thistle and NAC (and other liver support crap)
   - transdermal ALA
   - ALCAR, L-Carnosine, MSM, Glucosamine, Chonsdrotin

*>>>>Two Weeks Off *** at 3500 kcals plus 25 mcg T3/b]

Two Weeks:  M1T 40 mg daily, 1 gram boldione, 3 grams of 4-OHT added to FL7 (12 squirts daily); 50 mcg T3; training protocol A; 2500-3000 kcals

Other supps: 
   - Vendetta, and Go pre-workout; as well as E/C/Y
   - Kreatine Ultra and GO during WO
   - 50g Whey and 25g dextrose post-wrokout
   - 10-15g fish oil 
   - milk thistle and NAC (and other liver support crap)
   - transdermal ALA
   - ALCAR, L-Carnosine, MSM, Glucosamine, Chonsdrotin
   - E/C/Y
   - MM4
   - LipoDerm Ultra

>>>>Four Weeks Off at 2500-3000 kcals


***Each OFF period will consist of:

6-oxo added to FL7; training protocol B

Other supps: 
   - ICE, and GO pre-workout; as well as E/C/Y
   - Kreatine Ultra and GO during WO
   - 50g Whey post-wrokout
   - 10-15g fish oil 
   - milk thistle and NAC (and other liver support crap)
   - transdermal ALA
   - ALCAR, L-Carnosine, MSM, Glucosamine, Chonsdrotin
   - Guggul
   - sytenhance with 3 alpha (or 1-test) on the upper arms and shoulders


DIET

The caloric intake listed above will be a daily average.  I will be cycling my carbs muck like listed in my second article, but not as stringent (given the androgen usage).  Goals will be High Carb days on most training days, as well as Saturday.  I will try to squeeze in one No Carb day a week.  In addition to the standard fare, I will be eating a lot of:
  - skim milk and fiber one
  - oatmeal, whey, and peanut butter
  - nuts
  - steak
  - pasta, especially ww pasta
  - ww bagels, breads, etc.
  - various "low carb" versions of foods (milk, pasta, bread, bagels)
  - anything high fiber

Once the third mini-cycle hits, this will likley be a mini-cut (depending on fat gain, if any).  Diet will be tighter and I will be doing something akin to the Basic Carb Cycle.


TRAINING PROTOCOL A

Monday -- Back, Chest, Tris, Cuff Work
Tuesday -- Quads, Bis
Wednesday -- Shoulders, Calves, Hams, Traps, Rear Delts
Thursday -- Back, Chest, Tris, Cuff Work
Friday -- Quads, Bis


TRAINING PROTOCOL B

Monday -- Chest, Shoulders
Tuesday --  Back, Cuff Work
Wednesday -- Quads,
Thursday -- Bis and Hams
Friday -- Tris and Calves


EXERCISES AND SETS

Back
  - Close Grip Pulldowns 4
  - Wide grip pulldowns 3
  - T-Bar Rows 3
  - Lat Pulls 2

Chest
  - Pushups 3 x 10
  - Bench Press (2/3 ROM)  3
  - Incline DBs (light) 2
  - Hammer Strength Decline 3
  - Pec Dec (light, full ROM) 2

Tris
  - V-bar Press (heavy) 3
  - Noisebreakers 3
  - One Arm Reverse Cable Presses 3
  - One Arm cable kickbacks 2

Bis
  - Straight Bar 3
  - Seated DB 2
  - Machine Preacher 2
  - Hammer Curls, Cable 3

Quads
  - Extensions 3
  - 1 Leg Presses 3
  - Squats 3
  - Machine Squats 3*


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## Twin Peak (Jan 5, 2004)

*Day 1 Stats:*

BW: 203
Waist: 37.5 (I think about an inch of this is bloat and water retention from all the salt I had this weekend)
Right Arm: 16.25
Left Arm: 17
Chest Fat:  12 mm
Ab Fat: 17 mm
Quad Fat: 12 mm

Est. BF%: 12.5%
LBM: 177.6
Fat: 25.4


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## Twin Peak (Jan 5, 2004)

*Today:  A "typical" 4000 kcalorie Mass Day*

Numbers in (parens) are estimated calories.

5:30 -- 1 scoop of Vendetta, 1 serving GO (shit, I forgot my E/C/Y) (160)
>>>Lift >>> 1 serving GO, 1 serving Kreatine Ultra
7:30 -- 50 grams whey, 25 grams dextrose, 10 grams creatine monohydrate (thrown in as I have leftover) (330)
9:30 -- large ww bagel, little cream cheese, banana, 3 hard boiled eggs (650)
           (the ww bagel is not "typical" and the carb source may be fiber one, oatmeal, grape nuts, or ww bread)

12:30pm Lunch: today was 4 slices of atkins bread and 2 cans o'tuna, and an apple (plus 6 grams fish oil).  This will be fairly standard lunch fair, and may instead be chicken on ww bread or brown rice, tuna and whole wheat pasta, etc.  You get the idea.

4pm Piece of fruit, and protein of some sort.

6:30-8pm Dinner (this will vary from night to night, depending on....drum roll... what's for dinner!  Essentially, it will be a high protein, moderate carbohydrate, and moderate to low fat meal around 1000 calories.  If I overdo it, I will end up skipping my nighttime snack.  I'll eat thinks like homemade Chicken Pot Pie (tonight), chicken and brown rice or Yams, fish and cous cous, turkey I'll also be downing about 8-10 grams of fish oil).

9:30 pm Night time snack will be mostly protein and fats and around 500 calories.  Casien and peanut butter, or beef jerky, or a large egg and cheese omlette, will be standard fare.

Just to get some idea of food, as I really eat this much, I started up fitday.  Here you can see exactly what I eat as I log it.  We'll see how long this lasts.


http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=Twin+Peak


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## tomas101 (Jan 5, 2004)

shit thats kinda cool...i think i may start a log like that


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## Arnold (Jan 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by tomas101 *_
> ...i think i may start a log like that



if you do, please put it HERE


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## Twin Peak (Jan 5, 2004)

Glad you like it.  I hope its informative, if nothing else.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> if you do, please put it HERE



You can move it if you like, but as I said above, this is a supplement (primarily M1T) review thread -- with context thrown in.


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## Arnold (Jan 5, 2004)

No, it's fine here since the focus is supplements...I just did not want a bunch of people starting logs in various forums.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 5, 2004)

Good point.


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 5, 2004)

Hey TP, why are you doing rows for back?  And why no Mag-10?  I thought it had 130% bioavailability.  

Very thorough log, I look forward to your results.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> Hey TP, why are you doing rows for back?  And why no Mag-10?  I thought it had 130% bioavailability.
> 
> Very thorough log, I look forward to your results.



Grrrrr.


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## Arnold (Jan 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> Hey TP, why are you doing rows for back?



what is wrong with rows?


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## Twin Peak (Jan 5, 2004)

And Prince says I have no sense of humor.


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> what is wrong with rows?




He said at the top he didn't want questions like why are you doing xxxx for back, so I figured I would taunt him a bit.  The mag 10 was all me, however.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 5, 2004)

Not "all" you.  You were playing on previous statements.

Good memory though.


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## Power Rabbit (Jan 5, 2004)

when you say boldendone for one of your stacks are you referring to something legal like a 1,4 andro...or are you gonna jab something like eq??


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## Twin Peak (Jan 5, 2004)

Boldione, as listing in the third mini-cycle is just the name for 1, 4 andro.  I'll be taking it orally, throughout the day.


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## Power Rabbit (Jan 5, 2004)

heh sorry i mixed it up with boldenone....


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## Arnold (Jan 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> He said at the top he didn't want questions like why are you doing xxxx for back, so I figured I would taunt him a bit.  The mag 10 was all me, however.



oops, did not even see that.


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## Triple Threat (Jan 5, 2004)

You must forgive Prince. He's still in shock from yesterday's game.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Power Rabbit *_
> heh sorry i mixed it up with boldenone....



I assumed.  

Nope, for now, everything in there can be purchased at your local bulknutrition.com or blackstarlabs.com


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## ZECH (Jan 5, 2004)

Where are you getting ALA powder and your carrier from?


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## JerseyDevil (Jan 6, 2004)

TP looking forward to following this.  You need to be a bit more thorough.  

How many M1-t cycles did you do before surgery, and what where the results?


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## Twin Peak (Jan 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Where are you getting ALA powder and your carrier from?



BAC.

I need to check on what would be a good carrier (i.e. whether PH gel (FL7) will work).


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## Twin Peak (Jan 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by JerseyDevil *_
> TP looking forward to following this.  You need to be a bit more thorough.
> 
> How many M1-t cycles did you do before surgery, and what where the results?



Sorry, I'll work on that.  I have run 4-5 cycles of 1-test and various PHs, my first M1T cycle was post-op.  I ran SO+ for 3 weeks, then M1T for three weeks, in a row.  I ran it at (on average) 30 mg a day and while dieting and with shitty training (legs and light arms only).  I gained about 3 pounds of LBM, if memory serves.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 6, 2004)

Quick update, Day 2:

Weight is up 2 pounds and stomach 1/2 inch, so obviously, the extra food is bloating me (beyond being bloated already).  No matter, measurements are only official weekly.

Sleep has been f-ed up the last two days, I'll need to correct that tonight and get at least seven hours.  As a result todays workout was cut a bit short, but yesterdays workout was money.

Despite the higher calories yesterday, I was always ready to eat more.  Today is a different story, as I am constantly full (and its only 10 am).


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## Twin Peak (Jan 6, 2004)

BTW, here are some pics, for those interested.

These are a few weeks old, but good enough to serve as my "before" pics.  I am perhaps holding a few pounds of water (and maybe a tad fat) from the holidays, but otherwise this is how I now look.

http://forum.avantlabs.com/?act=ST&f=52&t=7145&st=0&#entry100950


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## ZECH (Jan 6, 2004)

BAC?? Btw, your pics look great. Especially for someone not too far post surgery. Good job!


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## prolangtum (Jan 6, 2004)

It still would be lovely to see you run some methyldienolone instead of M 1T to compare results.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> BAC?? Btw, your pics look great. Especially for someone not too far post surgery. Good job!



beyondacentury.com

Thanks, I am hoping that by the time I am 100% I am well beyond where I was even before surgery.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by prolangtum *_
> It still would be lovely to see you run some methyldienolone instead of M 1T to compare results.



Well, each of my M1T cycles are different, so it will still be an interesting comparison.


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## prolangtum (Jan 6, 2004)

ah your boring


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## Arnold (Jan 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> BTW, here are some pics, for those interested.
> 
> These are a few weeks old, but good enough to serve as my "before" pics.  I am perhaps holding a few pounds of water (and maybe a tad fat) from the holidays, but otherwise this is how I now look.
> ...



wow, that is great and impressive!


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## Twin Peak (Jan 6, 2004)

Thanks Prince.

Pro -- you are about the only person who would call this supplement stacking and cycling "boring".


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## ZECH (Jan 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> 
> 
> Pro -- you are about the only person who would call this supplement stacking and cycling "boring".


That's cause he's hardcore!


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## Twin Peak (Jan 6, 2004)

He certainly is yes.


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## ZECH (Jan 6, 2004)

Well for what it's worth, I think it's interesting! But then again, I'm easily amused


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## Power Rabbit (Jan 6, 2004)

Youd never have thought you were in surgery with your quads...good stuff...hell your traps and delts aint bad either..I know mine would be the first to go If i had to take some time off.


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## prolangtum (Jan 6, 2004)

Im not hardcore, i just make things complicated. Take the 3k pills I take a day. Seems im taking about 10 extra things to off set the negatives of other things im taking. I have two damn drawers full of pills. I wont hijack this thread, but maybe Ill post my Mass Fast runs somewhere, not sure where though, as Im not going to do it for a while


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## PreMier (Jan 6, 2004)

Wow... you have a very detailed thread here TP.  I look forward to reading your results.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 7, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Power Rabbit *_
> Youd never have thought you were in surgery with your quads...good stuff...hell your traps and delts aint bad either..I know mine would be the first to go If i had to take some time off.



Yeah, I was able to bring the quads up a bit since that was all I could do for a while.  I did a ton of one-leg leg press (couldn't squat).

I haven't trained delts or traps at all, in almost 5 months.  You should see the pics of when I did.  They are my genetic blessing.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 7, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Quick update, Day 2:
> 
> Weight is up 2 pounds and stomach 1/2 inch, so obviously, the extra food is bloating me (beyond being bloated already).  No matter, measurements are only official weekly.



Day 3 -- weight was up another pound and stomach up a full inch total, so 206.5 and 38.5.

This is all extra food in the gut and bloat.  Today will be a lower calorie (about 3000) day to make sure I don't gain a ton of fat, then its 4000 kcals for Th-Sa.


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## prolangtum (Jan 7, 2004)

no T3?


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## Twin Peak (Jan 7, 2004)

Yeah, as I said in my original post -- 25 mcg -- at around 5 pm or so.  I told you it did little for me (and I am using E/C and FL7).


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## prolangtum (Jan 7, 2004)

looked through the original post, guess I missed it. Sucks you have such a high tolerance to things. I bet if you went nuts and went on some sort of shooting spree, you would be one of those guys that it takes 6 or 7 bullets to take you down, the first 3 or 4 wouldnt phase you.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 7, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by prolangtum *_
> looked through the original post, guess I missed it. Sucks you have such a high tolerance to things. I bet if you went nuts and went on some sort of shooting spree, you would be one of those guys that it takes 6 or 7 bullets to take you down, the first 3 or 4 wouldnt phase you.



LOL.  As I have said many times....

Also, I store fat so friggin easily.


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## ShadowJack (Jan 7, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I need to check on what would be a good carrier (i.e. whether PH gel (FL7) will work).



I think I hear my name being called...

For (regular) ALA:  MW~206.33; lipophillic (estimated logP~3.40).  i.e.  Use PH Gel for topical systemic distribution, and not Lipo Gel.  Not sure on how much you will be able to get dissolved.  It's solubility in H2O sucks; only 0.127 mg/ml.  As it is quite lipophillic, it should be quite a bit more soluble in alcohol (the primary solvent in PH Gel), but I don't have exact data at the moment.

If you want to add it to FL7, I would add it slowly a gram at a time, shaking and heating in-between each addition.  And check that it is fully dissolved before adding more.

Just a quick note: you may experience some feelings of hypoglycemia from topical ALA, due to the inherent time released nature of topical distribution.  May somewhat depend on how many carbs you are eating during the day.  You probably know how ALA dosed orally effects you, so use that as a guide to start with.  Either way, I say give it a try and find out.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 7, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by ShadowJack *_
> I think I hear my name being called...



LOL.  Actually, I was going to email you.

Thanks.



> _*Originally posted by ShadowJack *_
> Just a quick note: you may experience some feelings of hypoglycemia from topical ALA, due to the inherent time released nature of topical distribution.  May somewhat depend on how many carbs you are eating during the day.  You probably know how ALA dosed orally effects you, so use that as a guide to start with.  Either way, I say give it a try and find out.



Definitely going to find out.  How does oral affect me?  I have never felt anything from regular or r-ALA, including high doses.  Shocking, I know.


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## Mudge (Jan 7, 2004)

Shoot I guess I am not the only non-responder extroidinaire! I should give my liver a nickname like THE CITADEL DE PAIN


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## Twin Peak (Jan 8, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Day 3 -- weight was up another pound and stomach up a full inch total, so 206.5 and 38.5.
> 
> This is all extra food in the gut and bloat.  Today will be a lower calorie (about 3000) day to make sure I don't gain a ton of fat, then its 4000 kcals for Th-Sa.



Day 4 -- and this is interesting.  After reducing cals (some carbs and some fat) to around maintenance level (2500-3000 kcals), I still gained another pound -- but my waist dropped an inch, back to its starting point.  Oh, and a quick tape of the arms shows about a 1/4 inch increase.  To me this means:

* the previous stomach increase was indeed bloat and food in the gut.

* the stack is doing "something." (I am up 4 pounds in 3 days).

I'll be at 4000+ kcals for three days, then Sunday is my No Carb day, so we'll get full measurements Monday morning.


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## Mudge (Jan 8, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> * the previous stomach increase was indeed bloat and food in the gut.



I always measure in the AM for this reason (I try to do it before even my coffee). Nice update though, for you anyway


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## Twin Peak (Jan 8, 2004)

Oh, this is first thing AM every day, the bloating and food in gut carries over.  Its worse in the PM.


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## Mudge (Jan 8, 2004)

I think I put on around 1/2" or so through the day


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## Twin Peak (Jan 8, 2004)

I am usually up about 1 1/2 inches (and 3-5 pounds) by days end, believe it or not.


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## Tkarrde (Jan 8, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I am usually up about 1 1/2 inches (and 3-5 pounds) by days end, believe it or not.



This is about right for me, as well.


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## Mudge (Jan 8, 2004)

That is freakish, I will have to take a closer look to be sure. I was 39" in the AM a few days ago, it is pretty tough for me to get under 37".


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## Twin Peak (Jan 8, 2004)

I should also add that I have not felt a single effect or "side" effect at 30 mg ED.  *Perhaps* the only thing I notice is that I seem to be walking around fully pumped all day.  Though this could be from any number of things.


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## Mudge (Jan 8, 2004)

When I had my 1/8th" increase on the arms I felt like my muscles were harder.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> When I had my 1/8th" increase on the arms I felt like my muscles were harder.



Mudge, last night I weighted 215, and this am 209.5.  This is still another 2 lb jump from yesterday morning, and the stomach was only up 1/4 inch.

So far, I am up 6 pounds in 4 days and stomach is up 1/4 inch (again, mostly bloat, I'd assume).

Do I believe I have gained 6 pounds of muscle, no.

Also, the weight gain is mostly due to the increased food -- I can gain very easily.  The supplements and training are what will determine how much of my ordinary weight gain is fat, and how much is muscle.


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 9, 2004)

My experiences were very similar.  My bloat was sometimes so bad at night that I had to sleep on my side to prevent me from being crushed under my own weight, much like a whale.  Then, when I got up in the am, it was pretty much back to the same measurement.  As I said before, the bathroom was my second home on M1T.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 9, 2004)

LOL.

However, in this case the bloat is due to the excessive calories and eating.  My first cycle of M1T I was dieting, and experience no bloat what-so-ever, and in fact experienced leaning and hardening and vascularity rather quickly.


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## JerseyDevil (Jan 9, 2004)

On my M1-t cycle I gained 11 lbs.  I'm 15 days post cycle and I lost 7 of those (on maintenance calories).  So I'm assuming most of the gain was water.  I stacked with S1+, and I attribute this mostly to the 4AD.  It seemed like the moment I started Nolvadex, I leaned out quickly.


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## Tank316 (Jan 9, 2004)

TP, thats great, awesome build.great progress from the shoulder set back.it just goes to show that a person should train smart after surgery,look at the results, amazing!!!!!!!


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## Twin Peak (Jan 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Tank316 *_
> TP, thats great, awesome build.great progress from the shoulder set back.it just goes to show that a person should train smart after surgery,look at the results, amazing!!!!!!!



Thanks Tank.  I am hoping that by the time the summer roles around, I'll have forgotten what it was like to be that scrawny.

Jersey -- I have no 4-diol in this stack.


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## camarosuper6 (Jan 9, 2004)

TP are you experiencing any other nuances using the m1-t, other than bloating?


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## Twin Peak (Jan 10, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by camarosuper6 *_
> TP are you experiencing any other nuances using the m1-t, other than bloating?



The bloating is not from the M1T, but from the extra food.

And I am really not experiencing anything else, even at 30 mg a day.  I didn't feel anything last cycle either, though.

Yesterday I was rather tired though -- could have been from the M1T or from lack of sleep all week.  I'll keep an eye on that.


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## camarosuper6 (Jan 11, 2004)

Do you feel 30mg is enough currently, of would u up ur next cycle in lieu of the progress your making now?


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## Twin Peak (Jan 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by camarosuper6 *_
> Do you feel 30mg is enough currently, of would u up ur next cycle in lieu of the progress your making now?



Strong enough for what?  Sort of a loaded question.  Also, I'd really rather not answer that, until the two weeks are up.  When I used it at that dosage for 3 weeks while dieting, it had nice effects on bodycomp.  Could I have handled more?  Yes.

But with androgens, you want to get the most bang for your buck -- that is -- use the lowest dosage possible to get results; since you will likely need to use more the next time.

Recall that I have 3 mini-cycles and each one is progressively more and/or additional androgens.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> *Day 1 Stats:*
> 
> BW: 203
> ...



After 1 week:

BW: 209
Waist: 38 
Right Arm: 16.5
Left Arm: 17.5

Looks like my calories were a bit too high.  I'll cut back some this week, probably having Low Carb days on Wednesday and Friday.


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## Power Rabbit (Jan 12, 2004)

heh a little overbulk never hurt noone


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## plouffe (Jan 12, 2004)

i dont think there is such thing as an over bulk


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## Twin Peak (Jan 16, 2004)

Thur ??? 1/15 (10 Days) ??? well, as of today I am not so pleased. I was/am concerned that I was consuming too many calories, despite the M1T, as my stomach looks much worse (and I am generally less vascular). So yesterday I went lower calories as I mentioned I would, and I dropped back from 213 to 210 this morning. But my stomach was still up to just over 38 inches; not good. Also, while I was cutting a few months back, and got it down to under 36 inches, I promised that I would not let it get over 38, again.

And I still look ???fat??? (fatter). So I have come to conclude that for me, M1T is not a good bulking androgen; though it was very good when cutting. I am going to go with calories in the 3000-3500 range (still above maintenance) for the next three days, but not near the 4000 mark. I also am upping the dose the last 4 days to 40 mg. I am also going to reconsider the next two mini-cycles; they may become cutting cycles, we will see.

On the 4-OHT, I really can???t say that I noticed anything from it. It could be that I didn???t use it long enough, but I haven???t noticed a thing.

I???ll post final stats on Monday, which will reflect the full two weeks.

Lastly, this week I have been more tired, and had some headaches. Not extreme lethargy or anything, but just general tiredness (like when you begin to cut back on caffeine).


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## plouffe (Jan 16, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> [Deleted]
> So I have come to conclude that for me, M1T is not a good bulking androgen; though it was very good when cutting.
> [Deleted]



Well what if you don't mind putting on 3-4% bf and a few inches? What are the other downfalls of bulking on this androgen other that some extra inches on the waist? Thanks.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 16, 2004)

I think it simply depends on the person.  I don't think I have gained an appreciable amount of muscle or strength; nothing I couldn't have done without it.

Others have reported much better gains, even at lower doses, however.


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## plouffe (Jan 16, 2004)

Yeah I do think your right on the individual results from this product/products. Mudge for instance didn't respond for shit on this stuff. I'm just hoping I'll beable to respond to it well when I decide to cycle it.


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 16, 2004)

I got a considerable amount of bloat in my face and neck from it, but my abdomen stayed pretty much the same.  I actually look totally different now that I am off it.  I was not a big fan of having a balloon head, but I have the same strength and my arms are still over 17" and I am over a month off.


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## JerseyDevil (Jan 16, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I think it simply depends on the person.  I don't think I have gained an appreciable amount of muscle or strength; nothing I couldn't have done without it.
> Others have reported much better gains, even at lower doses, however.


Interesting.  On my first experience with M1-t I used it for two weeks at the end of a S1+ cycle.  I didn't feel I was getting good results with the S1+, and it seemed within two days of starting the M1-t, my weight and strength exploded.  After reading numerous reports of little or no strength gain on M1-t, I'm beginning to wonder if what I really experienced was the transdermal 1-test/4AD kicking in, with the M1-t giving me a weight boost.

I lost my job last week, my position was 'eliminated'....  Since I have some time on my hands I decided to start another cycle.  The plan is to do 3-4 weeks of M1-t and transdermal 4AD.  I'll start with 20 mg of M1-t and 400 mg of 4AD for the first week, and 30 mg M1-t/400 mg 4AD for the duration.  It will be interesting to see if I have near the strength increase I had before.  If I don't, I'm thinking a S1+/M1-t cycle may be better for pure strength.

Twin Peak, what are your thoughts on some of the new methylated compounds DesignerSupplements are coming out with?  M5AA, M1,4 , Methyldienolone.  Geez, I think they might try methlylating dogshit next.


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## JerseyDevil (Jan 16, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by JerseyDevil *_
> Twin Peak, what are your thoughts on some of the new methylated compounds DesignerSupplements are coming out with?  M5AA, M1,4 , Methyldienolone.  Geez man, I think they might try methlylating dogshit next.


Since I posted this, I have read the discussions on your home board Avant and also AM concerning Methyldienolone.  If this proves to be relatively safe, then it may well be the compound we'll all be using...


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## prolangtum (Jan 17, 2004)

i like it


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## JerseyDevil (Jan 17, 2004)

I know you do.


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## Power Rabbit (Jan 18, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by JerseyDevil *_
> Since I posted this, I have read the discussions on your home board Avant and also AM concerning Methyldienolone.  If this proves to be relatively safe, then it may well be the compound we'll all be using...




nuts to that... go go drol! 

jk


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## firestorm (Jan 18, 2004)

Hey TP I'm happy to see your recovering nicely I'm still actually reading your journal here (still on page 2, lots of information). I'm posting now while those pics of your are still fresh in my memory.  When I 1st saw the pics of you at the Mr. Olympia contest, I didn't think much at all of your physic to be drastically honest I doubted you even lifted weights!  BUT.......after seeing these recent pics you either hid your physic very well under dress cloths or you have made dramatic results because you look 1000 times better and actually quite impressive.  Fantastic work my man and I'm feeling the need to print this whole damn thread and doing exactly what your doing cause it is apparently working...either that or your a wiz with photoshop!!!! hahahahahaha   Awesome job man, keep up the fantastic work.  High fives to you TP


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## Twin Peak (Jan 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by JerseyDevil *_
> Interesting.  On my first experience with M1-t I used it for two weeks at the end of a S1+ cycle.  I didn't feel I was getting good results with the S1+, and it seemed within two days of starting the M1-t, my weight and strength exploded.  After reading numerous reports of little or no strength gain on M1-t, I'm beginning to wonder if what I really experienced was the transdermal 1-test/4AD kicking in, with the M1-t giving me a weight boost.
> 
> I lost my job last week, my position was 'eliminated'....  Since I have some time on my hands I decided to start another cycle.  The plan is to do 3-4 weeks of M1-t and transdermal 4AD.  I'll start with 20 mg of M1-t and 400 mg of 4AD for the first week, and 30 mg M1-t/400 mg 4AD for the duration.  It will be interesting to see if I have near the strength increase I had before.  If I don't, I'm thinking a S1+/M1-t cycle may be better for pure strength.
> ...



Well, I am told that M 1, 4 is in the mail as of today -- so we shall see.  This is something I have wanted to test.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by firestorm *_
> Hey TP I'm happy to see your recovering nicely I'm still actually reading your journal here (still on page 2, lots of information). I'm posting now while those pics of your are still fresh in my memory.  When I 1st saw the pics of you at the Mr. Olympia contest, I didn't think much at all of your physic to be drastically honest I doubted you even lifted weights!  BUT.......after seeing these recent pics you either hid your physic very well under dress cloths or you have made dramatic results because you look 1000 times better and actually quite impressive.  Fantastic work my man and I'm feeling the need to print this whole damn thread and doing exactly what your doing cause it is apparently working...either that or your a wiz with photoshop!!!! hahahahahaha   Awesome job man, keep up the fantastic work.  High fives to you TP



Actually I looked better (leaner) in Vegas.  I have always had the sort of physique that is significantly work impressive when actually lifting or flexing.

And thanks.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> *Day 1 Stats:*
> 
> BW: 203
> ...



Day 15: The End

BW: 212 (+9)
Waist: 38.5 (+1")
Right Arm: 16.25 (+3/4)
Left Arm: 17 (+3/8)
Chest Fat:  12 mm
Ab Fat: 17 mm
Quad Fat: 12 mm

Est. BF%: 12.5%
LBM: 185.4 (+7.8)
Fat: 26.6 (+1.2) 

Well, the numbers show that (1) I am bloated (and I feel bloated too); and (2) I have gained muscle, while not gaining much fat (assuming the stomach  increase is bloat), but much of the weight gain (half?) is bloat/water.

I am cancelling the remainder of this test -- i.e. the two other cycles I outlined originally because:

* I am getting M 1, 4 to test
* I am testing my new training theory (along with a few others).

I hope this was at least marginally helpful to you all.  I'll post follow up stats in 1 week to see what I retained, and to see what bloat disappeared (if any).

This week I am dropping calories (I know you shoudl never do this during PCT), taking transdermal 6-oxo, and using Sytenhance on my shoudlers, Arms, and Quads.  I am also adding in a bunch of fat burners.  I have a fair number left and I want to drop some fat (help with nutrient partitioning) and use up my supply since Avant's new fat-burners should be available (at least to me) very shortly.


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## firestorm (Jan 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Actually I looked better (leaner) in Vegas.  I have always had the sort of physique that is significantly work impressive when actually lifting or flexing.
> 
> And thanks.



Ok TP if you looked better in Vegas then we have to do something about your wardrobe.   hahahahaha  
Anyway your welcome and keep up the excellent work.


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