# Biceps lagging



## maxpro2 (Oct 19, 2004)

I feel as though my biceps are not growing as much as my other body parts. Here is my routine that I am currently doin for back/biceps day -  if anyone can offer advice, anyway to switch it up, or other exercises to replace these I would appreciate it.

-Wide grip pullups (3 sets)
-Lat pulldowns (3 sets)
-Seated rows or row delt machine (3 sets)
-Weighted hyperextensions (3 sets)

-Standing db bicep curls (both arms at same time) (3 sets)
-Standing cable curls or barbell curls (3 sets)
-2 or 3 other random sets (hammer, concentration curls)


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## CowPimp (Oct 19, 2004)

Try doing less.  Your biceps are already being hit with the first 3 exercises that you do for your back.  There is no need for 8-9 direct sets immediately thereafter.  Try 0-3 sets.


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## LAM (Oct 19, 2004)

try training your biceps 2-3 days after training back...


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## maxpro2 (Oct 19, 2004)

LAM, how do you suggest I change my overall routine to fit your suggestion? Like what is a better way to split it up; here it is below for each day of the week.
-Back/biceps
-Chest/triceps
-Off
-Legs
-Shoulders
-Off
-Off

What split do you use if you don't mind me asking? Thanks for the help.


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## LAM (Oct 19, 2004)

Mon - chest/biceps
Tues - Legs
Wed - off
Thur - shoulders/triceps
Fri - back/traps
Sat & Sun - Off


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## maxpro2 (Oct 19, 2004)

Thanks for your help


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 20, 2004)

Do heavy back work with minimal bicep work. I only do one exercise for biceps.


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## Duncans Donuts (Oct 20, 2004)

Only one exercise?  Why, that's tomfoolery and nonsense sir.


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## Johnnny (Oct 20, 2004)

One reason is that you're doing your back & biceps on the same day which is a huge no, no.

You shouldn't be doing them on back to back days either.

Chest & biceps would be much better, & 2 days later back & triceps as you shouldn't train triceps on chest or shoulder day as your triceps play a huge part as well.

Try doing your chest, then biceps & this routine for biceps:

3 sets of standing barbell curls with the 45lb bar
3 sets of incline dumbbell hammer curls
3 sets of ez bar preacher curls

If that doesn't build your biceps then the next thing to look at is how much you're eating.


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## pmech (Oct 20, 2004)

Correction: First thing to look at is what you are eating.


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## CowPimp (Oct 20, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> One reason is that you're doing your back & biceps on the same day which is a huge no, no.



Why do you spout this nonsense in every single thread?  There is nothing wrong with lifting in ths manner, you just have to adjust your volume accordingly.  Personally, I don't prefer this method, but there is nothing wrong with it for those who do.


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## Johnnny (Oct 20, 2004)

CowPimp



> Why do you spout this nonsense in every single thread. There is nothing wrong with lifting in ths manner, you just have to adjust your volume accordingly. Personally, I don't prefer this method, but there is nothing wrong with it for those who do.



This isn't non sense what so ever, Mudge would agree with this totally.

In fact he doesn't even do chin ups of any kind, nor would he ever do back & biceps on the same day or on back to back days.

I even read awhile back a reply from Gopro saying this was bad as well somewhere.

Your biceps will be weakend from all the pulling exercises of the rowing, so your biceps will be finished by the end of the back workout & you won't get full benefit or be able to go as heavy on biceps.

Same goes for doing back & biceps on back to back days.

If you do biceps the day before your back routine, come back day you won't be pulling as much as you possibly could.

& same goes for doing biceps the day after your back day, you won't have a full bicep routine that you could if you did them seperately.


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## CowPimp (Oct 20, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> CowPimp
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I understand this.  However, if hypertrophy is one's goal, then maximal weights are not necessary as long as there is progression.  Changing his routine at this point would be a good idea, however, training back and biceps on the same day is not a "huge no, no."


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## Johnnny (Oct 20, 2004)

cowpimp



> I understand this. However, if hypertrophy is one's goal, then maximal weights are not necessary as long as there is progression. Changing his routine at this point would be a good idea, however, training back and biceps on the same day is not a "huge no, no."



Yes it is a no no.

You will tear down your biceps before you even have a chance to train them.

Then you go to do your biceps & you'll be overtraining your biceps.


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## CowPimp (Oct 20, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> cowpimp
> 
> 
> 
> ...



To induce hypertrophy in your biceps, you need to tear them down.   Your body then supercompensates by rebuilding the amino acids (Providing you have the proper amino acids in your system via nutrition) into contractile proteins.

You will not overtrain if you adjust the volume of your bicep routine as I stated in my first post.  I suggested that he do 0-3 sets for his biceps.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 20, 2004)

> You will tear down your biceps before you even have a chance to train them.
> 
> Then you go to do your biceps & you'll be overtraining your biceps.



Johnnny, working biceps with back is NOT a no no. Granted you may want to change it up every couple of months, but their is nothing wrong with working biceps after back. 

I do it, keep my volume to a minimum, and am doing quite well.


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## Duncans Donuts (Oct 20, 2004)

Listening to Johnny and the ignorance he has become espoused to is a no-no.


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## CowPimp (Oct 20, 2004)

His reasoning behind everything is, "Some dude at my gym did X activity, and the result was Y."  It's called jockology.


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## tucker01 (Oct 20, 2004)

Don't forget they were on steriods


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## PreMier (Oct 20, 2004)




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## Johnnny (Oct 20, 2004)

cowpimp



> Johnnny, working biceps with back is NOT a no no. Granted you may want
> to change it up every couple of months, but their is nothing wrong with
> working biceps after back.
> 
> I do it, keep my volume to a minimum, and am doing quite well.



Fine do it, but don't go & tell others that it's okay.

Most pro's will tell you not to do it.

I'd believe the pro's over you guys any day even with their steroid use as they trained natural at one point in their lives & even steroids, you still need adequite recovery time.


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## Jonnnny (Oct 20, 2004)

*Yes!*


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## PreMier (Oct 20, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Fine do it, but don't go & tell others that it's okay.
> 
> *Most pro's will tell you not to do it.*
> 
> I'd believe the pro's over you guys any day even with their steroid use as they trained natural at one point in their lives & even steroids, you still need adequite recovery time.



Johnnny, when I first started, and got advice from Ron Williams(Mr. Natural Olympia, and Natural Bodybuilder of the Decade).  He set me up on a chest/shoulder/tricep - back/rhomboid/bicep - legs type of split.  So you see.. a PRO does use this routine.  Its NOT a no no.


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## Mudge (Oct 20, 2004)

I split my back and biceps only because of my tendons. I know a guy with over 20 inch arms relaxed, who does zero bicep training.

I do 4 sets currently and no more, works for me.


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## Johnnny (Oct 20, 2004)

For those who haven't noticed the guy using JOHNNNNY with 4 n's is not really me as my name has 3 n's & he uses bold & large writing which is something I never do.


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## Jonnnny (Oct 20, 2004)

_One reason is that you're doing your back & biceps on the same day which is a huge no, no._


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## Jonnnny (Oct 20, 2004)

For those who haven't noticed the guy using JOHNNNNY with 3 n's is not really me as my name has 4 n's & he uses bold & large writing which is something I never do.


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## Duncans Donuts (Oct 20, 2004)




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## Johnnny (Oct 20, 2004)

& now he's removed his h in his name & switched his location.

Gee I bet it's Duncan or Camaro or maybe cowpimp.

Are you guys in grade 7?

You sure act that age.


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## Jonnnny (Oct 20, 2004)

& now he's removed his h in his name & switched his location.

Gee I admireDuncan or Camaro and cowpimp.

Are you guys in college?

You sure act cool.


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## Duncans Donuts (Oct 20, 2004)

Although I consider this to be funny, I have nothing to do with it.

More accusations from Johnnny


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## pumpchaser (Oct 21, 2004)

This is probably Johnny the Frank Sepe groupie. Right there i'm not listening.


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## Johnnny (Oct 21, 2004)

pumpchaser



> This is probably Johnny the Frank Sepe groupie. Right there i'm not
> listening.



You have something agains ppl who are a Frank Sepe fan?

I'm not the only fan Frank has on this forum.


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## bulletproof1 (Oct 21, 2004)

johnnny i dont know why youre so worried about your imposter. he cant give any more worse advice than you already do.

youre a follower johnnny. you go with what everyone else says instead of forming your own opinions. its always so and so said this...so and so does that. that shit gets old. if you havent figured it out yet, we all do things differently. its called bodybuilding not johnnnybuilding. everyone does things to meet their goals and we are getting along just fine doing things anti-johnnny.


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## CowPimp (Oct 21, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Fine do it, but don't go & tell others that it's okay.
> 
> Most pro's will tell you not to do it.
> 
> I'd believe the pro's over you guys any day even with their steroid use as they trained natural at one point in their lives & even steroids, you still need adequite recovery time.



Camaro was the one who said the quote about doing back and biceps on the same day.  I'm currently doing Westside; it's nothing like a standard bodybuilding routine.

Most pros will tell you not to do it?  How do you know this?  Do you know most pros?  Have you developed a statistical analysis of what pros believe in terms of training splits and then calculated a reasonable margin of error?  I doubt it; please stop making up information and saying it as though it were a fact.  I am willing to put money on the fact that there are plenty of pros working synergistic muscle groups in the same session.

There are multiple effective training protocols that call for, or allow, training of synergistic muscles in the same session: Max-OT, HST (Full body), and HIT to name a few.


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## Johnnny (Oct 21, 2004)

CowPimp



> Most pros will tell you not to do it? How do you know this? Do you know most pros? Have you developed a statistical analysis of what pros believe in terms of training splits and then calculated a reasonable margin of error? I doubt it; please stop making up information and saying it as though it were a fact. I am willing to put money on the fact that there are plenty of pros working synergistic muscle groups in the same session.



Are the names Markus Ruhl, Paul Dillette, & Roy Callender professional enough for you?


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## Duncans Donuts (Oct 21, 2004)

Ron Coleman uses westside, I believe.


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## nikegurl (Oct 21, 2004)

The thing I really hate is when new people come here to learn and they get solid advice from some members and then "Johnny style" advice and they don't know who/what to believe.

If no one intervenes they'll be left thinking Johnny's advice is worth following.  If someone does step in then an arguement inevitably follows and that can't look good to a new member.    There's another thread in the training section where a new member posted his routine looking for advice and the same thing happened.  Sux for the newbies.


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## Johnnny (Oct 21, 2004)

nikegurl



> The thing I really hate is when new people come here to learn and they get solid advice from some members and then "Johnny style" advice and they don't know who/what to believe.



So then Gopro's advice isn't solid either then which is in reality what you're saying as he believe's the same as I do regarding upper chest presses.

Nikegurl here is a quote from a conversation I had earlier with Gopro regarding this subject just incase you missed it earlier.



> as far as the upper chest thing, yes I believe you need various angles to develop the chest fully...i do not believe that just by performing flat presses you will fully develop the upper chest



I strongly support this & have supported this with my now almost 10yrs training.

Hitting the upper chest are just as important as dips, decline presses & flat bench presses in order to achieve a fully developed chest.

Duncans Donuts



> Ron Coleman uses westside, I believe.



Well a lot of ppl say that Coleman is starting to gain powerlifter status.
But with all the GH & anabolics anything he does will make him grow at this point with all his training years.


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## Duncans Donuts (Oct 21, 2004)

How on earth can you use professional bodybuilders to support your theory on training:




> Are the names Markus Ruhl, Paul Dillette, & Roy Callender professional enough for you?



And then dismiss the champion's training methods? :



> Well a lot of ppl say that Coleman is starting to gain powerlifter status.
> But with all the GH & anabolics anything he does will make him grow at this point with all his training years.



You can not cherry pick the stats you want to use, and dismiss the ones that others provide...


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## nikegurl (Oct 21, 2004)

can you leave gopro out of it?  i'm not talking about the incline press/upper chest "thing" that happens here where everyone disagrees.  i'm talking about the utterly ridiculous stuff you will spew b/c some pro you read about trained that way once.

if someone has no training knowledge themselves they could wind up believing some of really bad advice you give out (mistakenly thinking you know what you are talking about)  it's a shame.  and i'm definitely not just talking about this thread


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## Johnnny (Oct 21, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> How on earth can you use other bodybuilders to support your theory on training:



Like I said that these pro's trained naturally at one point & found out what works & what didn't.

Plus they have years of experience w/o & with drugs.


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## BulkMeUp (Oct 21, 2004)

.


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## CowPimp (Oct 21, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Are the names Markus Ruhl, Paul Dillette, & Roy Callender professional enough for you?



No, that doesn't constitute anywhere near most pros.  Remember, just because a few pros believe something, doesn't mean they all do.  You absolutely cannot say the push, pull, legs split isn't viable.  It is has been used by far too many people in the past several decades of bodybuilding with too much success for some guy to come along and say that a few (Not most, as you claimed) pros think it is not a good way to train, therefore one shouldn't do it.


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## CowPimp (Oct 21, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Like I said that these pro's trained naturally at one point & found out what works & what didn't.
> 
> Plus they have years of experience w/o & with drugs.



You missed Duncan's point.  He said that is fine, but then you can't go and discount Ronnie Coleman's training methods.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 21, 2004)

> johnnny i dont know why youre so worried about your imposter. he cant give any more worse advice than you already do.



Couldn't have said it better.


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## Johnnny (Oct 21, 2004)

CowPimp



> You missed Duncan's point. He said that is fine, but then you can't go and discount Ronnie Coleman's training methods.



Never discounted Coleman's training methods, only said that with all the GH & anabolics he's on, anything will make him grow at this point.


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## nikegurl (Oct 21, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> CowPimp
> 
> Never discounted Coleman's training methods, only said that with all the GH & anabolics he's on, anything will make him grow at this point.



ok...now follow along.  wouldn't that also apply to the other pros as well?


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## troubador (Oct 21, 2004)

crap ive been working biceps the day after back day  

right now my week is 
mon. chest/delts/abs
tue.  legs
wed off
thur. back/abs
fri.   bis/tris/calves

what should i move?trade back day for leg day?


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## CowPimp (Oct 21, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Never discounted Coleman's training methods, only said that with all the GH & anabolics he's on, anything will make him grow at this point.



So do all the pros that you mentioned.  What's the difference, except that the pro Duncan mentioned is on top of the bodybuilding world right now?


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## Ahhhnold (Oct 21, 2004)

Cure for lagging biceps:

8 sets barbell curls
8 sets wide grip barbell curls
8 sets hammer curls
8 sets seated incline alt curls
8 sets reversed grip curls

repeat every 3 days


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

CowPimp



> So do all the pros that you mentioned. What's the difference, except that the pro Duncan mentioned is on top of the bodybuilding world right now?



My point is that at one point in their lives probably for 2-5yrs depending on the person, these guys trained with no drugs what so ever & were natural.
So they had to train properly.

Ahhhnold



> Cure for lagging biceps:
> 
> 8 sets barbell curls
> 8 sets wide grip barbell curls
> ...



You must be joking?


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## Robboe (Oct 22, 2004)

Ahhhnold said:
			
		

> Cure for lagging biceps:
> 
> 8 sets barbell curls
> 8 sets wide grip barbell curls
> ...



You must be massive.


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## CowPimp (Oct 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> My point is that at one point in their lives probably for 2-5yrs depending on the person, these guys trained with no drugs what so ever & were natural.
> So they had to train properly.



So did Ronnie.  What's your point, once again?  All kinds of bodybuilders have totally different training ideologies that work.  You can't pick and choose certain ones while attempting to implicitly discredit the others.  It's very obvious that was what you were attempting to do; don't pretend otherwise.


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## DeadBolt (Oct 22, 2004)

bulletproof1 said:
			
		

> johnnny i dont know why youre so worried about your imposter. he cant give any more worse advice than you already do.
> 
> youre a follower johnnny. you go with what everyone else says instead of forming your own opinions. its always so and so said this...so and so does that. that shit gets old. if you havent figured it out yet, we all do things differently. its called bodybuilding not johnnnybuilding. everyone does things to meet their goals and we are getting along just fine doing things anti-johnnny.


   



			
				Jonnnny said:
			
		

> & now he's removed his h in his name & switched his location.
> 
> Gee I admireDuncan or Camaro and cowpimp.
> 
> ...


LMAO!!!


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 22, 2004)

I'm the coolest kid on the block. Believe that!


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 22, 2004)

> Fine do it, but don't go & tell others that it's okay.



Johnnny, you should be banned on giving any kind of training advice.


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## Arnold (Oct 22, 2004)

Ahhhnold said:
			
		

> Cure for lagging biceps:
> 
> 8 sets barbell curls
> 8 sets wide grip barbell curls
> ...





will I get biceps like you Arnold?


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## Mudge (Oct 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Never discounted Coleman's training methods, only said that with all the GH & anabolics he's on, anything will make him grow at this point.



So we can discount what any pro says then because they are all on high amounts of anabolics, that sounds like a good theory for the most part.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 22, 2004)

Careful Mudge. Your about to venture in the Logic Of Johnnny... a place where many a man gets lost in a sea of paradoxes and hyperbole.


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## Mudge (Oct 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> My point is that at one point in their lives probably for 2-5yrs depending on the person, these guys trained with no drugs what so ever & were natural.



Very much depending on the person, because I'm not aware of any offhand that trained naturally for very long at all. Jay Cutler at 22 was huge, and he started training he says at 18.


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## pmech (Oct 22, 2004)

Mudge.... dont bite... dont bite. Fight the urge to try and figure that logic out.


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

camarosuper6



> Johnnny, you should be banned on giving any kind of training advice.



& you should be banned from the forum just for being a jag off.

You think you know everything there is to know about training eh?
IMO you don't know what you're talking about.

Mudge



> So we can discount what any pro says then because they are all on high amounts of anabolics, that sounds like a good theory for the most part.



This is true then, but my only point regarding pro's was that they trained natural at one point in their lives.


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## Ahhhnold (Oct 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> you should be banned from the forum just for being a jag off.


I want to be IM's one and only jag off.  I want all you hostile peeps to direct your anger and frustrations at me.  I will gladly step up and play the role.

Any training questions you may have feel free to post 'em in my 'ask Ahhhnold' thread.

TTFN


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

Ahhhnold



> I want to be IM's one and only jag off. I want all you hostile peeps to direct your anger and frustrations at me. I will gladly step up and play the role.



Why you haven't done anything wrong nor flamed anyone.


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## Ahhhnold (Oct 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Ahhhnold
> 
> 
> 
> Why you haven't done anything wrong nor flamed anyone.


It is lonely at the top.


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## pumpchaser (Oct 22, 2004)

Can we stay on topic? Johnn/ny, will rubbing one out affect bis? What about alternate grips?


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

Mudge



> So we can discount what any pro says then because they are all on high amounts of anabolics, that sounds like a good theory for the most part.



Well that's true, but my point was that they did train naturally at one point

pumpchaser



> Can we stay on topic? Johnn/ny, will rubbing one out affect bis? What about alternate grips?



That depends some ppl just do their standing barbell curls with the 45lb bar as their compound movement for biceps & then either concentration curls or preacher curls.

I've always found it beneficial to do standing barbell curls or standing DB curls, some sort of hammer curl, standing seated, on an incline bench or preacher bench, & either preacher curls with an ez bar or 1 bicep at a time with DB's.

So you can reall change up your grips & angles to get the best variation possible. It's good to change all of your routine 3-4 times a week.


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## Jeanie (Oct 22, 2004)

I don't know about any of the answers here but here is my suggestion.

Sometimes do biceps when you do back and sometimes do biceps after you do legs.  BUT, FOR ME form is what it is all about.  I like to do incline dumbel curls, alterating arms.  Makes sure you squeeze and twist your wrist to get the peak.  I also enjoy Concentration curls.  I don't know the scientifics, I just know this give good results for me.


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## CowPimp (Oct 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Well that's true, but my point was that they did train naturally at one point



You just used pros as examples to prove your point that biceps and back shouldn't be trained together.  Now, it's true that we should disregard what they are saying?  You boggle my mind with your ignorance.


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

cowpimp



> You just used pros as examples to prove your point that biceps and back shouldn't be trained together.  Now, it's true that we should disregard
> what they are saying?  You boggle my mind with your ignorance.




What I was referring to in regards to pro's was the time in their life that they did train natural.

When they're on as much GH/anabolics as them, it's hard to accept advice from them if you're natural as being on drugs, they don't "ALWAYS" see things from a natural training person.

But I was referring to when the pro's were at one point training naturally in their lives.


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## CowPimp (Oct 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> cowpimp
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice attempt at backpedaling.  Just admit that there is no reason you can't train back and biceps together with the proper adjustment of volume and intensity.  It's okay to admit you're wrong.  I am certainly willing to admit I am wrong when it is obvious that I am.


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

cowpimp



> Nice attempt at backpedaling.  Just admit that there is no reason you  can't train back and biceps together



Sorry but I can't admit to anything b/c I know that when I'm done my back routine my biceps are killing me from all the rowing & pulling.


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## CowPimp (Oct 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> cowpimp
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry but I can't admit to anything b/c I know that when I'm done my back routine my biceps are killing me from all the rowing & pulling.



Which is exactly why you only need to do a few sets for your biceps if you decide to use that method.  If I did a split like that, I would probably only do 2-3 sets for my biceps directly.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 22, 2004)

> When they're on as much GH/anabolics as them, it's hard to accept advice from them if you're natural as being on drugs, they don't "ALWAYS" see things from a natural training person.



OK OK OK... is it just me, or is this yet ANOTHER FUQQING CONTRADICTION of himself?


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 22, 2004)

> I'd believe the pro's over you guys any day




THEN HE SAYS...





> When they're on as much GH/anabolics as them, it's hard to accept advice from them if you're natural as being on drugs, they don't "ALWAYS" see things from a natural training person.




And there you have it folks..


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## CowPimp (Oct 22, 2004)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> THEN HE SAYS...
> 
> 
> And there you have it folks..



Yup.  That's what I was saying about the backpedaling.  He doesn't know what he's talking about.


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## DeadBolt (Oct 23, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> cowpimp
> Sorry but I can't admit to anything b/c I know that when I'm done my back routine my biceps are killing me from all the rowing & pulling.


Try and work on your form a little, if your bi's are "killing" you then your using them to much.  Concentrate on some form and the bi's wont be so exhausted.


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## CowPimp (Oct 23, 2004)

DeadBolt said:
			
		

> Try and work on your form a little, if your bi's are "killing" you then your using them to much.  Concentrate on some form and the bi's wont be so exhausted.



Indeed.  A good tip I was given for rowing movements: pull with your elbows, not with your arms.  This should help you activate the posterior delts.


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## DeadBolt (Oct 23, 2004)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Indeed.  A good tip I was given for rowing movements: pull with your elbows, not with your arms.  This should help you activate the posterior delts.


I remember that, SF hit the nail on the head with that post lol.


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## Johnnny (Oct 23, 2004)

Boy this is getting tiring.

The pro's have trained natural at one point in their loves probably for at least a few years.

Then they take their GH/anabolics & explode.

It's tough to take advice from them as you really have to be specific.

Some that I've met I had to spell it out whether I was training on anabolics or training natural.

Point being pro's have experience in both training naturally & on anabolics/GH.
So they have both point of views to elaborate on.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 23, 2004)

I doubt the many of the pro's did any serious bodybuilding until they were juiced up.


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## min0 lee (Oct 23, 2004)

I once shot myself with testosterone and what power surge. I think I gained about 8 pounds in 1 week and felt hyper strong 24/7. 

Sad thing is I shitted all I thought I had gained in 1 day.
 This was 15 years ago.


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## Tha Don (Oct 23, 2004)

Jeanie said:
			
		

> I also enjoy Concentration curls.  I don't know the scientifics, I just know this give good results for me.



concentration curls with give you great peaks

incline curls better for bicep length

just ask ahhhhnold


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## CowPimp (Oct 23, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Boy this is getting tiring.
> 
> The pro's have trained natural at one point in their loves probably for at least a few years.
> 
> ...



Whatever.  That doesn't make the push/pull split unuseable.


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## Cold Iron (Oct 23, 2004)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Indeed.  A good tip I was given for rowing movements: pull with your elbows, not with your arms.  This should help you activate the posterior delts.



Another thing I like to use for rows is pulling to the hip


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## Tha Don (Oct 24, 2004)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Whatever.  That doesn't make the push/pull split unuseable.



who said it was unusable?????

i'm using it now, its an awesome principle, by far one of the most effecient and effective means of training!


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## Jeanie (Oct 25, 2004)

young d said:
			
		

> concentration curls with give you great peaks
> 
> incline curls better for bicep length
> 
> just ask ahhhhnold


wow, you qouted me!   But I must say that the incline curls with a twist and squeexe a the top are awesome if done with high reps!


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## DeadBolt (Oct 25, 2004)

Jeanie said:
			
		

> wow, you qouted me!   But I must say that the incline curls with a twist and squeexe a the top are awesome if done with high reps!


At high reps yea it really gets the bi's screamin lol.


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## shark taco (Oct 25, 2004)

*big arms with two exercises: 21s and Ladders*

For biceps I've seen huge gains with:
1) having a biceps and triceps only day.
2) Taking a day or two off after arms - since arms are used in everything else you do and so to avoid overtraining.
3) do a normal biceps routine and finish it off with one or the other of the following (once a week)...

21s:
7+7+7 - bar curl 7 reps from beginning to middle for 7 reps, immediately go from middle to top for 7 reps, and then 7 full reps - all in a row as one set.  You should require a spotter on the 3rd iteration of 7.  Minimal rest or wait for partner to complete his/her 21 then go right away for 3 or 4 more sets until complete burn-out.

Ladders:
Use a partner or recruit someone in the gym also doing arms.  Grab a bar at 60% or what you normally do.  Pick a number from 15 to 21 (or thereabouts).  You do a slow concentrated full rep.  Drop the weight.  Your partner does 1 rep.  When your partner is finished, you do 2 reps; then he/she immediately does 2 reps, then 3...4...etc.  Go up to the number you picked (minimum of 15) THEN, come back down from 15 reps, to 14 reps, to 13 reps...etc all the way to the last rep.  No rest other than your partner's amount of rest.  No quitting, spot to full amount.  If you can drive home normally, you're not working hard enough.


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