# Arnold Schwarzenegger vs Dorian Yates



## Testosterone (Sep 29, 2003)

Two Champions of a kind! Completely opposite training styles and attitudes. Both have come out with their books "Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding" and "Blood & Guts". Various masters and gurus have reviewed their writings and astonishingly gave Dorian's book  while Arnold's Book was quite misleading .
Main question is you won't get to see any better champions than either of these two. Then whose training methodology should one go after if he has serious intentions in bodybuilding.
Arnold say "NO to STEROIDS" while Dorian accepted the fact that he used them and so did every Pro that's competing today. 

MILLOIN $ QUESTIONS IS: If you were a coach and had your own gym, which idol would you prefer and implement it's principles on your Gym members and wannabe champions who come to your gym with serious aspirations in their minds?


----------



## Rocco32 (Sep 29, 2003)

As an idol I would definately take Arnold!! On the other hand, I haven't read Dorian Yates book, I have Arnolds and I don't agree with him. I agree with no steroids, but the w/o's he does is overtraining and the exercises he recommends can be dangerous to your joints. Not many people can train like Arnold, he is one of a kind IMO.


----------



## Twin Peak (Sep 29, 2003)

Yates philosophies are more applicable to the masses.


----------



## Flex (Sep 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by rock4832 *_
> As an idol I would definately take Arnold!! On the other hand, I haven't read Dorian Yates book, I have Arnolds and I don't agree with him. I agree with no steroids, but the w/o's he does is overtraining and the exercises he recommends can be dangerous to your joints. Not many people can train like Arnold, he is one of a kind IMO.



Actually Rock, there is no such thing as overtraining. there in only underrecuperating. Doing as much as 50 sets for one bodypart is not overtraining. Getting too little sleep, food and overall rest is...

Any exercises he recommends can be dangerous on your joints, if you don't know the correct form. Show me one exercise that isn't if you don't know the correct way......

There are a few reasons Arnold doesn't condone or even admit taking steroids, and they are all good ones.  First, he had political aspirtations (as you can see now), so coming out in the open saying i've done drugs is not smart (besides, back then they were LEGAL). Plus he has admitted on various talk shows in the past that he has....

Second, he is such a huge star that he actually WANTS to help kids by saying no to steroids. His whole life he has displayed his love for and care for children, through special olympics and proposition 36 (i think the # is). Arnold realizes that people idolize him, he is one of the most famous people on earth. People, especially kids that can't decide for themselves, take his word and books and everything else of his as "the way to be".  So if he were to tell the truth "ya, i've taken steroids since the age of 13, i started with dbol, then primobolan and other drugs", there is no doubt in my mind that steroid use among kids and teens and adults alike would SKYROCKET! That's like Michael Jordan telling kids it's ok to gamble, or Michael Irving saying "ya kids, it was only a little coke". "Flex" magazine doesn't say they take steroids, and that's the #1 selling BB magazine out. They know kids/teens/adults will buy into their B.S. that they don't take steroids (but that is another arguement on another thread).


----------



## Flex (Sep 29, 2003)

"did Bill Clinton come out of the blue and say yes, i did smoke pot, but don't worry, i didn't inhale". no, he did so when confronted.

Bottom line is they are both great champions with very different philosphies....personally Arnold is my fav. 

"Arnold is numero uno"


----------



## Flex (Sep 29, 2003)

As far as training styles, everyone responds differently. Many people respond better to higher volume and can't reach the all out intensity Dorian used for his 1 set to failure style.....but its different for everyone, most fall in somewhere in between.


----------



## Rocco32 (Sep 29, 2003)

I agree with you, I love Arnold!! However, there is underrecuperating, but I do believe there is also overtraining! And Arnold swears by a lot of exercises that put extra stress on rotator cuffs and lower back, that is more prone to risk w/ the normal population than regular db presses. I have heard and read Arnold say he did steroids in the beginning. In that time, there was no reports of the bad side of steroids, however he does have health problems related to that now.


----------



## Ahsan (Sep 29, 2003)

well flex,
                 i think u r wrong arnold did take steriods in beginning and in ending either. there is such thing as overtraining.AND U even right that he didnt want the young generation to follow that fuckin rulz. taking anabols becoming monster.


----------



## Testosterone (Sep 29, 2003)

As per various experts, Arnold misguided everybody about his training principles. So, BODYBUILDING  WISE, you definitely DO NOT want to make Arnold your idol. Yes, as a person, Arnold is gem of a bodybuilder. 
On the other hand, bodybuilding wise, Dorian has it all. His fighing spirit, SHADOW attitude was his trademark. Sure, person wise, he was not very mixable and talkative, but then he was BRITISH!.
Dorian is more remembered by everybody as BEST BODYBUILDER than a person, while in Arnold's case, in todays world, it's quite opposite.
After all is said & done, it was not arnold started it all. Credit must go to Steve Reeves and Larry Scott.


----------



## Arnold (Sep 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Flex *_
> Actually Rock, there is no such thing as overtraining. there in only underrecuperating.



as I said in that other thread that is just semantics.


----------



## Arnold (Sep 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Flex *_
> There are a few reasons Arnold doesn't condone or even admit taking steroids, and they are all good ones.  First, he had political aspirtations (as you can see now), so coming out in the open saying i've done drugs is not smart (besides, back then they were LEGAL). Plus he has admitted on various talk shows in the past that he has....



I give much more respect to someone that admits what they have done, lying and denying is not respectable the truth will always come out.

Example: How Clinton said he smoked pot but did not inhail, give me a break. I would have had much more respect for him had he just said he got high a few times, big deal, at least it would be truthful.


----------



## Flex (Sep 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Testosterone *_
> As per various experts, Arnold misguided everybody about his training principles. So, BODYBUILDING  WISE, you definitely DO NOT want to make Arnold your idol. Yes, as a person, Arnold is gem of a bodybuilder.
> On the other hand, bodybuilding wise, Dorian has it all. His fighing spirit, SHADOW attitude was his trademark. Sure, person wise, he was not very mixable and talkative, but then he was BRITISH!.
> Dorian is more remembered by everybody as BEST BODYBUILDER than a person, while in Arnold's case, in todays world, it's quite opposite.
> After all is said & done, it was not arnold started it all. Credit must go to Steve Reeves and Larry Scott.




First of all, Arnold did start it all. Yes Larry Scott and Reeves did come before Arnold, but Vince Gironda, John Grimek and Reg Park came before them.  Arnold was the one who made BB from a dark subculture to the booming industry/following it is/has now. They don't call the '70's the "golden years" of BB for nothing. When someone thinks of BB, the first person that most comes to mind is Arnold.

Prince, i realize its semantics, but i'm only doing it to get my point across. And you can't be serious that you want the truth from everybody. Nobody is perfect.  When George Bush jr. decided to run for pres., he didnt come out and say, so and so is my opinion on welfare and foreign aid, and oh ya, by the way, i'm a womanizer, i used to be a crazy party animal and blow coke all the time. Is that how you are? Do you introduce yourself to people by telling them all the imperfections you have, especially if you decided to run for political office...

Yes, Arnold was a womanizer, he used to bang chicks left and right. He took major steroids since age 13. He smoked pot back in the day (when it wasnt illegal). He drank, he partied, he sexed it up. Nobody is perfect, everyone makes mistakes and has "dark" secrets that they don't want anyone knowing. Show me someone who doesnt and you are a straight liar.

Again, he's not gonna say i took maj. steroids cuz he doesnt want everyone else to....and believe me, they would if they knew Arnold did, he's the most popular BB ever by far.


----------



## Flex (Sep 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Ahsan *_
> well flex,
> i think u r wrong arnold did take steriods in beginning and in ending either. there is such thing as overtraining.AND U even right that he didnt want the young generation to follow that fuckin rulz. taking anabols becoming monster.



What are you trying to say man, i cant understand you. i said Arnold took steroids from age 13, its a fact. and no, there is not overtraining. I can't understand the rest...


----------



## Testosterone (Sep 29, 2003)

Thats' exactly I mean to say. BE honest. If you've done something, Admit it!
Ronnie Coleman says that He don't use Steroids! Can you believe him?Markus Ruhl says, he dont use Synthol?Can you believe him?

Not only, you don't believe them but you tend to disrespect such guys, who lie!

Competitive Bodybuilding is a game of Steroids Today. Everyone has used it! Mind you-Everyone. But Nobody admits it. They keep on saying, they're natural! WTF..
This thing misguides youngsters. Youngsters have their idols in these people. After working out year after year, naturally, when they don't get PROFESSIONAL LIKE gains...they just give up...thinking that they've failed! They failed to emulate their Superstar! They don't even ponder over the fact that their so called idols failed to speak truth! 
It's damn simple. If these pros openly admit that they use Roids, very few people would like to emulate them as their idols..In that case everybody would be fine working out in some gym making decent gains..if not gains like these Pros who always mislead. 

As far Arnold's popularity, it's because of his exposure in Films, not by the virtue of his physique only!
Just like Stallone has decent body and more of a Ramboism associated with himself!


----------



## gopro (Sep 29, 2003)

Niether, as both of these guys used steroids to achieve greatness. I would like to inspire my members with physiques that are more realistic and attainable. That said, my own training resembles Yates far far more than Arnolds. A natural bodybuilder could actually progress on a Yates style program, but not too many naturals would do well with Arnold's workouts.


----------



## Flex (Sep 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Testosterone *_
> Thats' exactly I mean to say. BE honest. If you've done something, Admit it!
> Ronnie Coleman says that He don't use Steroids! Can you believe him?Markus Ruhl says, he dont use Synthol?Can you believe him?
> 
> ...



Dude youre missing my point. I never said i agree with them and how they lie. I completely agree with you that BB today is a game of steroids, i  NEVER SAID THAT, youre making a different point. Do you know why noone admits it? $$$$$$$$$$$
Weider has and is still making a killing putting his own roided up monsters in his magazines saying alls you need to do is train hard, eat right and get enough sleep and you too can be 300lb shredded to the bone. 

Secondly, its not their responsibility for coming out in the open and say "yes, i admit, i take steroids". that's these guys make a living. they eat, train, sleep and juice bodybuilding. In order to make $ to live, they must compete. In order to compete and win, they must juice...its an ongoing cycle.

You are getting into a moral arguement, saying they need to come out and state they take steroids. Why dont guys in baseball then, or the nfl? Why dont pro athletes come out and say "we like to party. we go out and drink, do drugs, get laid". because they don't have to!!!!!! they didn't make kids have them as their role model. these are people too, they happened to be great athletes, that kids want to emulate. Bottom line, they are people. They don't live their lives thinking, "wow, maybe i should be honest and tell the world i juice, then i'll quit juicing, stop getting sponsored, stop getting paid, and go around begging for donations"

It is not their responsibility!!! They owe nothing to anyone, its not their fault people look up to them.


----------



## Flex (Sep 29, 2003)

And another thing testosterone guy,
If you said who is the best/most popular BB, then you went and contradicted yourself saying Arnold got popular because of movies. Which is it? 

And are you kidding me? Arnold was and still is the greatest BB of all time IMO, and most other people's. It sounds like you are saying Dorian is the best cuz he admitted he took steroids.  Arnold had the mass, cuts and proportions that blow away any of today's guys. Back then, they relied on insane training, dieting, and cycling OFF roids to get in contest shape. Now guys just eat like pigs (burger king, McD's in order to get enough cals to grow),  and RELY  on steroids for comps. They have Winstrol and diuretics to shred up, and Growth Hormone and so many other mass drugs to get huge.

  Yes, Arnold's quads arent as big as todays guys, but many people TODAY argue that guys quads today are too big and take away from the symmetrical, aesthetique look.  BB isnt all about just mass you know.  Plus his waist was like only 32 in!!!! That's tiny compared to the pregnant, bloated growth hormone stomachs guys today take.


----------



## Tha Don (Sep 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Flex *_
> What are you trying to say man, i cant understand you. i said Arnold took steroids from age 13, its a fact. and no, there is not overtraining. I can't understand the rest...



i agree with flex there is no such thing as over-training

just under-resting


----------



## Rocco32 (Sep 29, 2003)

So once you start training past the point when your cortisone levels begin to rise and ATP goes down (which is only about 1 hr) and you begin only burning muscle- that's not overtraining? Or are you saying we should catch a nap in there somewhere?


----------



## heeholler (Sep 29, 2003)

Where can one get Dorian's book? Amazon says it is out of print.


----------



## derekisdman (Sep 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Flex *_
> And another thing testosterone guy,
> If you said who is the best/most popular BB, then you went and contradicted yourself saying Arnold got popular because of movies. Which is it?
> 
> ...



I agree with everything you said here.  It makes me sick to think the pros of today scarf down whoppers and big macs to get big.


----------



## Flex (Sep 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by derekisdman *_
> I agree with everything you said here.  It makes me sick to think the pros of today scarf down whoppers and big macs to get big.



Ya man, i've actually heard from a reliable source that Ronnie Coleman actually told people at one of his seminars/guest appearances to eat as much "junk food" as you can in order to grow (Burger king, McD's etc.). Kids hear that and obviously take his word for it when they see his physique. little do they know he spends $1000's/month on juice and he needs tons and tons of extra cals to keep growing. Poor kids gonna end up dissapointed, and even worse, obese...


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 29, 2003)

I would choose neither's training philosophies since there are far more effective methodologies out today.  Plus, if you were to restrict yourself to only one particular training methodolgy then you would be severely limiting your ability to achieve success.


----------



## Ahsan (Sep 30, 2003)

Originally posted by Flex
And another thing testosterone guy,
If you said who is the best/most popular BB, then you went and contradicted yourself saying Arnold got popular because of movies. Which is it? 

And are you kidding me? Arnold was and still is the greatest BB of all time IMO, and most other people's. It sounds like you are saying Dorian is the best cuz he admitted he took steroids. Arnold had the mass, cuts and proportions that blow away any of today's guys. Back then, they relied on insane training, dieting, and cycling OFF roids to get in contest shape. Now guys just eat like pigs (burger king, McD's in order to get enough cals to grow), and RELY on steroids for comps. They have Winstrol and diuretics to shred up, and Growth Hormone and so many other mass drugs to get huge.

Yes, Arnold's quads arent as big as todays guys, but many people TODAY argue that guys quads today are too big and take away from the symmetrical, aesthetique look. BB isnt all about just mass you know. Plus his waist was like only 32 in!!!! That's tiny compared to the pregnant, bloated growth hormone stomachs guys today take.



u r wrong dude arnold today isnot the greatest bb today cuz he have 34 in waist dude. now shut ur fuckin asshole.


----------



## Ahsan (Sep 30, 2003)

i was trying to say that arnold didnot want the young kids to take steroids. therefore he is saying that aal he gained is natural


----------



## Testosterone (Sep 30, 2003)

I'm not contradicting. I just said, Arnold was more famous by the virtue of his exposure in movies and media.
Physiquewise, Dorian was best, Not Arnold.
And remember, it's all about bodybuilding we're talking about today in this board. Absolutely nothing but The Bodybuilding.
I don't say that Dorian is Best because he admits taking steroids.
I say becaue Dorian is best, because he has the best physique when it comes to bodybuilding.


----------



## Testosterone (Sep 30, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Flex *_
> And another thing testosterone guy,
> If you said who is the best/most popular BB, then you went and contradicted yourself saying Arnold got popular because of movies. Which is it?
> 
> ...



I'm not contradicting. I just said, Arnold was more famous by the virtue of his exposure in movies and media.
Physiquewise, Dorian was best, Not Arnold.
And remember, it's all about bodybuilding we're talking about today in this board. Absolutely nothing but The Bodybuilding.
I don't say that Dorian is Best because he admits taking steroids.
I say becaue Dorian is best, because he has the best physique when it comes to bodybuilding.


----------



## gr81 (Sep 30, 2003)

fellas this is all opinion, it is pointless to argue about that shit, its all heresay. you are partial to who ever you were influenced more by, take them bith for what they have done for the sport and let it be.

P.S.  hey testosterone, a fellow T-man I presume form your name & AVI, hell ya bro


----------



## Flex (Sep 30, 2003)

Yes Gr, it is all opinion, there really is no right answer....

First of all, Arnold made BB where it is today. You ever see "Pumping Iron" and all the magazines he was on in the '70's. He made BB ok, and took it out of the dark subculture it was labeled and made it where it is today. Of course his movies made him a world superstar, but way before that he MADE BB. 

But, testosterone, Like you said, its all about bodybuilding. So we'lll talk about BB.  Arnold has a better physique than Dorian. Dorian is more massive, no doubt about that, he had more juice.  But, let's get into the technical aspects of BB, not just sheer size.  Arnold's V-taper is 100% better, Dorian sports a huge, blocky waist. Arnold sported a tiny waist.  In direct comparison, Arnold's bi's, calves and chest are better. Yes, Dorian has an enormous back which is better, and his legs are not doubt much bigger, but not neccesarily better. Many people argue today that today's mass monsters have quads that take away from the natural proportional, aesthetique physique that is so important to BB, but overlooked nowadays for sheer mass.  Plus, Arnold had seperation of his quad muscles that even today few guys achieve. Arnold had almost perfect symmetry and proportion, Dorian was critiqued for too much back compared to chest and too much tris compared to bi's.... Don't get me wrong man, i'm not hatin on Dorian, he's one of my top 5 ever. But you can't compare him to the man who started it all.

And if you wanna generalize it to all of BB, where Arnold doesnt have a fair chance because of all the drugs todays guys take, Ronnie has the best physique ever by far, kills Dorian.


----------



## Flex (Sep 30, 2003)

and ahsan, 
he did openly admit he took steriods. look up the facts, then talk shit. maybe he didnt admit it in his books, because print "lasts forever" and has the biggest "audience", because he doesnt want every kid in the world to take steroids, and they would if he admitted it. he openly admitted on various specials back in the '70's that he took steriods. 

when you know what youre talking about and learn to speak english then you can talk shit.


----------



## gr81 (Sep 30, 2003)

ha ha  

Well IMO, Arnold had the more aesthetically pleasing physique, he had a small waist and most people would agree that he has the nicer physique. Dorian on the other point had no weak points unlike Arnold and his legs (product of his times, I know). Both of them are apealing for different reasons, I can appreciate Arnolds upper body symmetry and clean appealing look to him, while I can also really appreciate Dorians massiveness for sure, much more freaky look to him obviously. 
Both of them have contributed to BB in their own way, both just as relavant in their own way. Arnold was the key figure involved in bringing BB from the cult following it had to a more mainstream appreciation of the sport. Dorian on the other hand revolutionized the sport, upping the bar for the modern day physiques to emulate. He was one of the first guys to usher in the freaky pro BB look of today, so both have been very influential. we should appreciate them both for their accomplishments and differences instead of nitpicking about who is "better". trying to compare the two is like the comparison of Jordan's Bulls and Chaimberlain's Lakers, two completely different eras.


----------



## Flex (Sep 30, 2003)

Thats a perfect way to say it Gr, its like comparing Barry Bonds to Babe Ruth. Perfectly spoken....

Both are great champions and have done wonders for BB, as all the other Mr. O's have.

(its just personally i prefer the aesthetiquelly huge Arnold to the freaky mass monster Dorian)


----------



## Ahsan (Oct 1, 2003)

hey whats the matter with  u r makin me angry i 'll kick ur ass. now get the hell out of this post motherfucker. u silly assholes. get out og here u ve made me angry is that way 2 talk 2 any guy u bull shit motherfuckers


----------



## Testosterone (Oct 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gr81 *_
> ha ha
> 
> Well IMO, Arnold had the more aesthetically pleasing physique, he had a small waist and most people would agree that he has the nicer physique. Dorian on the other point had no weak points unlike Arnold and his legs (product of his times, I know). Both of them are apealing for different reasons, I can appreciate Arnolds upper body symmetry and clean appealing look to him, while I can also really appreciate Dorians massiveness for sure, much more freaky look to him obviously.
> Both of them have contributed to BB in their own way, both just as relavant in their own way. Arnold was the key figure involved in bringing BB from the cult following it had to a more mainstream appreciation of the sport. Dorian on the other hand revolutionized the sport, upping the bar for the modern day physiques to emulate. He was one of the first guys to usher in the freaky pro BB look of today, so both have been very influential. we should appreciate them both for their accomplishments and differences instead of nitpicking about who is "better". trying to compare the two is like the comparison of Jordan's Bulls and Chaimberlain's Lakers, two completely different eras.




C'mon. The Million $ Question was: Which of these bodybuilders misguided others in his book about training? Which bodybuilder's Training Regime would you follow or pass on to others so that they make GREAT GAINS. It was all about Bodybuilding principles and CLEARLY SPEAKING THE TRUTH ABOUT BODYBUILDING MATTERS.
We're not here to argue which one is best.


----------



## monsieur_jj (May 27, 2010)

very hard to say who is better its a different era, without arnold dorian yates wouldnt be known or bodybuilding wont be as famous as it is now today


----------



## JOSEF RAKICH (May 28, 2010)

Arnold.


----------



## ArnoldsProtege (May 28, 2010)

Ahsan said:


> u r wrong dude arnold today isnot the greatest bb today cuz he have 34 in waist dude. now shut ur fuckin asshole.[/QUOTE
> 
> Insults are generally more effective if they are coherent. By the way, the period, when use properly, is a highly effective tool for communication; you should probably use it. Otherwise you run the risk of looking like an illiterate moron. Just sayin...


----------



## ArnoldsProtege (May 28, 2010)

If I could have the physique of any bodybuilder, from any era, it would be Arnold. He has had a hidden agenda all along, and cares for himself first and foremost, but god damn, in his prime he was pretty fantastic. He was the epitome of the American dream, and had one of the best bodies the sport has ever seen.


----------



## MDR (May 28, 2010)

Arnold


----------



## PushAndPull (May 28, 2010)

Yates


----------



## stepaukas (May 28, 2010)

neither..
they both were cheats  taking drugs. this is just my opinion, but i dont like guys that cheat. why not be the true bodybuilder like they both preach, and do what the word itself says.. bodybuilder..and build the perfect body on great diet, super hard training, and lots of rest. my budy who was a mr. new orleans , mr southern states and mr louisiana, said this to me...you got guys trying to build a great body drug free, guys in arnolds era that took a small ammount, and the guys today that take a whole lot of drugs. i replyed with , who cares if arnolds era took a bit, and todays guys take a ton, they both went the chemical way to get what they got. be nice if we could see exactly what they preach, train super hard , eat super great and rest, to see what they would have achieved. none of us will ever know what these guys would have looked like minus the drugs..maybe just as good as the local big guy at the gym???? who knows.
just my opinion..


----------



## MDR (May 28, 2010)

Bodybuilders take drugs?  Oh my...


----------



## juggernaut (May 28, 2010)

Twin Peak said:


> Yates philosophies are more applicable to the masses.


Agreed.


----------



## PushAndPull (May 28, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> Agreed.



I do as well, but for the most part aren't these really Mentzer's philosophies?


----------



## juggernaut (May 28, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> I do as well, but for the most part aren't these really Mentzer's philosophies?


they breed from that area, but I dont know if these are true Mentizer philosophies....and so what if they are?


----------



## DiGiTaL (May 28, 2010)

Neither

Mike Katz


----------



## PushAndPull (May 28, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> they breed from that area, but I dont know if these are true Mentizer philosophies....and so what if they are?



Just curious. I seen an interview with Yates on youtube where he talked about using Mentizer's Heavy Duty (HIT) training.


----------



## ArnoldsProtege (May 28, 2010)

Ronnie Coleman best physique ever? Come on, outside of serious bodybuilding/steroid enthusiasts, his body is not aesthetically pleasing and is actually, quite grotesque. 

Honestly, and this is not to kiss ass, but I would rather have Gopros body then almost any of the bodybuilders you mentioned, save Arnold, because his body was chiseled from the gods. Tom venuto as well is another natural who has a fantastic body that I would love to have; Ronnie or Cutler, no thanks. 

Not only that, but I have an immense respect for those who have pushed their body to its limit, and instead of taking an easier way out (I do not think that steroids is an "easy" way out by any means; most users train their asses off and are highly intelligent about it), developing and innovating new ways to take your body to the absolute limit. To this day, I have not gained more muscle mass then when I was doing P/RR/S training(again, just saying, Eric Broser is not paying me! He can if he wants though 

You can call me naive, or an idealist, or inexperienced in life at only 21 to know anything about bodybuilding; at least one of those is true. For me though, I would take Broser OR Venuto, or any of the other successful natural BBs out there over Yates any day. I would post a body of Broser or Venuto on my wall for inspiration, as a body I would dream about having; Ronnie, Cutler and Yates, though, I would not.


----------



## bigback51 (May 29, 2010)

Arnold rules!! Who did he have to chase Reg Park? or his buddy Franco Columbo. Franco was a short beast in his own right. Yates forget about it!
Hail to the " Oak"!!!


----------



## GFR (May 29, 2010)

stepaukas said:


> neither..
> they both were cheats  taking drugs.


Drugs were not against any bodybuilding rules when Arnold competed so how is that cheating? As for Dorian I believe no drugs were against the rules in his day ( with the possible exception of diuretics) so again how is that cheating?


----------



## Curt James (May 29, 2010)

That's_ 2003._ Zoinks! 



Testosterone said:


> Two Champions of a kind! Completely opposite training styles and attitudes. Both have come out with their books "Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding" and "Blood & Guts". Various masters and gurus have reviewed their writings and astonishingly gave Dorian's book  while Arnold's Book was quite misleading .
> Main question is you won't get to see any better champions than either of these two. Then whose training methodology should one go after if he has serious intentions in bodybuilding.
> *Arnold say "NO to STEROIDS"*



Arnold said _WHAT _to steroids? 



Testosterone said:


> while Dorian  accepted the fact that he used them and so did every Pro that's  competing today.
> 
> MILLOIN $ QUESTIONS IS: *If you were a coach and had your own gym,  which idol would you prefer and implement it's principles on your Gym  members and wannabe champions who come to your gym with serious  aspirations in their minds?*



I'd recommend people mix it up to see what they respond to best. It's not all physical, right? Some people prefer high volume from a psychological perspective.



ArnoldsProtege said:


> If I could have the physique of any bodybuilder, from any era, it would be *Arnold*.



*Arnold*sProtege...  I would never have expected a comment like that from you. 



PushAndPull said:


> I do as well, but for the most part aren't these really Mentzer's philosophies?



Mentzer's, yes, and Jones before him. 

And wasn't Robert Kennedy the creator of pre-exhaust, another concept that Mentzer utilized?



GeorgeForemanRules said:


> *Drugs were not against any bodybuilding rules when Arnold competed* so how is that cheating? As for Dorian I believe no drugs were against the rules in his day ( with the possible exception of diuretics) so again how is that cheating?



True. 

In fact, they weren't illegal period.


----------



## JerseyDevil (May 29, 2010)

ArnoldsProtege said:


> Ronnie Coleman best physique ever? Come on, outside of serious bodybuilding/steroid enthusiasts, his body is not aesthetically pleasing and is actually, quite grotesque.
> 
> Honestly, and this is not to kiss ass, but I would rather have Gopros body then almost any of the bodybuilders you mentioned, save Arnold, because his body was chiseled from the gods. Tom venuto as well is another natural who has a fantastic body that I would love to have; Ronnie or Cutler, no thanks.
> 
> ...


At 21 you are way beyond 80% of people posting here... 

To achieve Gopro's or Venuto's physique requires genetics and hard work. To achieve Ronnie's or Cutler's physique requires genetics, hard work, and a pharmacy.


----------



## Built (May 29, 2010)

Started in 2003, and the argument rages on...


----------



## Curt James (May 29, 2010)

Built said:


> Started in 2003, and the argument rages on...



Like the debates over whether Arnold should have been awarded the 1980 Olympia! Still going strong! 

I remember reading about his controversial win in the magazines (no Internet coverage or video webcasts on Bodybuilding.com back then) and thinking it couldn't be true. 

"Arnold's back????"


----------



## GFR (May 29, 2010)

Curt James said:


> Like the debates over whether Arnold should have been awarded the 1980 Olympia! Still going strong!
> 
> I remember reading about his controversial win in the magazines (no Internet coverage or video webcasts on Bodybuilding.com back then) and thinking it couldn't be true.
> 
> "Arnold's back????"


Arnold totally deserved the win in 1980.


----------



## juggernaut (May 29, 2010)

ArnoldsProtege said:


> I would take *Broser *OR Venuto, or any of the other successful *natural *BBs out there over Yates any day. I would post a body of Broser or Venuto on my wall for inspiration, as a body I would dream about having; Ronnie, Cutler and Yates, though, I would not.


 hahahahahahaahh


----------



## GregW (May 29, 2010)

Look at where they are now:

Arnold is the gov of California, one of the largest economies of the world!
Who has more power? Who's neural outlook got them further in life post-bbing.
 You decide...

Me, i'd love to have the power of being a king.


----------



## Beachdweller (May 30, 2010)

Good stuff


----------



## Curt James (May 30, 2010)

GeorgeForemanRules said:


> Arnold totally deserved the win in 1980.



Boyer Coe and Danny Padilla were just on the one radio show and I believe it was Boyer who argued that Roger Walker was seriously overlooked. Arnold definitely stood out as the legend and simply for what he brought to the stage, but Walker was on the money, too.







Coe and Padilla both agreed that the 1981 Olympia in Columbus was more controversial than Arnold's win in Sydney.

The '81 O was the last Olympia Arnold ever promoted. I believe they said that Weider was so disgusted that Franco, Arnold's close friend, won that show that the IFBB never allowed Arnold to promote another Olympia. 

Padilla was spot on in 1981.


----------



## DOMS (May 30, 2010)

Curt James said:


> The '81 O was the last Olympia Arnold ever promoted. I believe they said that Weider was so disgusted that Franco, Arnold's close friend, won that show that the IFBB never allowed Arnold to promote another Olympia.
> 
> Padilla was spot on in 1981.



Weider disgusted that someone else might be fixing the competition?  That's a joke.

In that shot, Padilla seems to have better legs (better definition), but Franco _destroys _him in everything else I can see.  Franco's lats were so big, it almost looks like a turtle shell.  You can also see the delineation of the heads of his pecs.


----------



## juggernaut (May 30, 2010)

DOMS said:


> You can also see the delineation of the heads of his pecs.


That's actually a birth defect.


----------



## DOMS (May 30, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> That's actually a birth defect.



Can I have it too?


----------



## Curt James (May 30, 2010)

DOMS said:


> In that shot, Padilla seems to have better legs (better definition), but Franco _destroys _him in everything else I can see.  Franco's lats were so big, it almost looks like a turtle shell.  You can also see the delineation of the heads of his pecs.



That pic doesn't show the awful gyno on the one side, but I agree. Franco looks great in that shot. And he definitely benefited from legend status. All those years chasing Arnold, a former Mr. Olympia, and, yes, the merits of his own physique put him over the top.



juggernaut said:


> That's actually a birth defect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, Franco was blessed with that unique split. Just like Boyer Coe's biceps. 

I second that "Can I have it too?" request!


----------



## ArnoldsProtege (May 30, 2010)

Thanks Jersey, I am just trying to keep it real. I think that it is no question natural body builders have more physically appealing bodies then those who take steroids. 

At least in the 70's and 80's, most body builders still looked human. I am not sure if it is because we are learning more about training, nutrition, or there are just more effective drugs out there, but bodybuilders nowadays like Ronnie and Jay look straight up gross. Seriously, I cannot be the only person here to think so,and I realize this is a body building forum. Arnolds body actually looked beautiful. It seems like modern bodybuilding has become "ok, whoever can get the biggest, most absurd, inhuman bodies possible, wins."

Who here would actually rather have Jay Cutlers body in the picture over Venuto? If you are competing, and your goal and ultimate purpose in life is to win Mr Olympia, I understand. But in real life, with jobs, and relationships, and beach volleyball, and golf, sports, kids, walking and swimming, I think it is a no brainer.


----------



## juggernaut (May 31, 2010)

ArnoldsProtege said:


> Thanks Jersey, I am just trying to keep it real. I think that it is no question natural body builders have more physically appealing bodies then those who take steroids.
> 
> At least in the 70's and 80's, most body builders still looked human. I am not sure if it is because we are learning more about training, nutrition, or there are just more effective drugs out there, but bodybuilders nowadays like Ronnie and Jay look straight up gross. Seriously, I cannot be the only person here to think so,and I realize this is a body building forum. Arnolds body actually looked beautiful. It seems like modern bodybuilding has become "ok, whoever can get the biggest, most absurd, inhuman bodies possible, wins."
> 
> Who here would actually rather have Jay Cutlers body in the picture over Venuto? If you are competing, and your goal and ultimate purpose in life is to win Mr Olympia, I understand. But in real life, with jobs, and relationships, and beach volleyball, and golf, sports, kids, walking and swimming, I think it is a no brainer.


I too feel that bbing has taken a bad step in the wrong direction. I think Cutler, Coleman and a host of others look retarded. I prefer the symmetrical, aesthetic look to the bloated fat gut look. I'm a former natty who now uses only because it enables me to work harder and heal faster. I step onstage with not one of the biggest physiques, but by far a more symmetrical, "superhero" look. I dont give a shit about being the biggest, but offering something that looks obtainable. Plus, I dont care to win the Olympia, I'd like to turn pro, but if it doesnt happen, I'm not going to care. I have three fitness and health related businesses that are doing very well and I am happy with that. I have my family and friends that come to all of my shows and that is more rewarding than a title.


----------



## DOMS (May 31, 2010)

ArnoldsProtege said:


> Thanks Jersey, I am just trying to keep it real. I think that it is no question natural body builders have more physically appealing bodies then those who take steroids.
> 
> At least in the 70's and 80's, most body builders still looked human. I am not sure if it is because we are learning more about training, nutrition, or there are just more effective drugs out there, but bodybuilders nowadays like Ronnie and Jay look straight up gross. Seriously, I cannot be the only person here to think so,and I realize this is a body building forum. Arnolds body actually looked beautiful. It seems like modern bodybuilding has become "ok, whoever can get the biggest, most absurd, inhuman bodies possible, wins."
> 
> Who here would actually rather have Jay Cutlers body in the picture over Venuto? If you are competing, and your goal and ultimate purpose in life is to win Mr Olympia, I understand. But in real life, with jobs, and relationships, and beach volleyball, and golf, sports, kids, walking and swimming, I think it is a no brainer.



Another downside to the bodies of Jay and Ronnie is that, if they go a _weekend _without eating right and exercising, they can drop 10 pounds.  It's kind of like a prison.  But hey, for them, it's a business.


----------



## juggernaut (May 31, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Another downside to the bodies of Jay and Ronnie is that, if they go a _weekend _without eating right and exercising, they can drop 10 pounds.  It's kind of like a prison.  But hey, for them, it's a business.


It may be a business, but the costs are ridiculous. I'd like to see them not take half the gear they're using, as well as the HGH and see what happens. I bet they'd look a lot more aesthetic.


----------



## unclem (May 31, 2010)

arnold admitted using steroids on the johnny carson show in the early eighties. and the older bbers used there fair share of gear. i think dorian is better but he took alot of gear to get there plus genetics. one pro said its a matter of how much gear you took as to where and how big you get plus genetics. they aint just taken 500mg teste wk plus ais and 50mg of anadrol, if you want to believe that well thats your choice. but this is what i know to be the truth in my opinion only cant speak only for myself, but like someone said who really knows the pros are not going to give out there secrets to no one. in my opinion only. peace everybody good thread by the way.


----------



## juggernaut (Jun 1, 2010)

unclem said:


> arnold admitted using steroids on the johnny carson show in the early eighties. and the older bbers used there fair share of gear. i think dorian is better but he took alot of gear to get there plus genetics. one pro said its a matter of how much gear you took as to where and how big you get plus genetics. they aint just taken 500mg teste wk plus ais and 50mg of anadrol, if you want to believe that well thats your choice. but this is what i know to be the truth in my opinion only cant speak only for myself, but like someone said who really knows the pros are not going to give out there secrets to no one. in my opinion only. peace everybody good thread by the way.


holy shit your grammar is fucked.


----------



## unclem (Jun 1, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> holy shit your grammar is fucked.


 
yeah there should be a few commas and stuff.  i totally agree, it reads as if a second grader did it. my fault.


----------



## juggernaut (Jun 1, 2010)

unclem said:


> yeah there should be a few commas and stuff.  i totally agree, it reads as if a second grader did it. my fault.


Dont forget capitalization motherfucker!!!!


----------



## bigdavetom (Jun 1, 2010)

soon theyl be juggs grammer lessons lol


----------



## juggernaut (Jun 1, 2010)

I used to teach. Cant be too far ahead.


----------



## bigdavetom (Jun 1, 2010)

cool


----------



## bigdavetom (Jun 1, 2010)

i got the pumping iron dvd and encyclop of bodybuilding .


----------



## unclem (Jun 1, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> Dont forget capitalization motherfucker!!!!


 
that to.......lol imo


----------

