# Leg Soreness after leg day



## Robert Parrish (Sep 11, 2013)

I do legs once a week.  Typically front or back squats, machine leg press (I do each leg separately), farmers walk w/barbell on shoulders, and machine calf raises.  Next day & a half to two days, no soreness.  Then, 3-4 days of severe quad, glute, and hamstring soreness.  So bad I can barely sit down to take a dump, let alone get up afterwards.  What, if anything, should I alter?  More frequent leg days?  Less reps?  Less weight?  Fewer exercises?  Thanks for any advice.


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## Eiserner Hahn (Sep 11, 2013)

if it hurts to sit down just to take a shit you must be doing something right. Nice work i'd say.


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## Iz_vivit (Sep 11, 2013)

It's just showing that you're a beast on leg days. Nice bro


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## gamma (Sep 11, 2013)

Haha I blasted mine on Monday ! Day two and three usually the worst for me. maybe you should increase protein during the day and up urs carb intake immediately after  ur work out..Being sore is part of the game 
as I am sure you know..


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## Kenny Croxdale (Sep 11, 2013)

Robert Parrish said:


> I do legs once a week.  Typically front or back squats, machine leg press (I do each leg separately), farmers walk w/barbell on shoulders, and machine calf raises.  Next day & a half to two days, no soreness.  Then, 3-4 days of severe quad, glute, and hamstring soreness.  So bad I can barely sit down to take a dump, let alone get up afterwards.  What, if anything, should I alter?  More frequent leg days?  Less reps?  Less weight?  Fewer exercises?  Thanks for any advice.



*Overtraining*

That kind of soreness means you doing more than you should.  

You need to cut back some place.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Sep 11, 2013)

Eiserner Hahn said:


> if it hurts to sit down just to take a shit you must be doing something right. Nice work i'd say.



*Village Idiot*

Thanks for identifying yourself as one of the Village Idiots.  

The EEOC mandates every group have a certain percentage. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## Robert Parrish (Sep 11, 2013)

I actually try to eat and exercise smart, and it sure doesn't feel like I'm doing too much at the leg-day time.  I eat cottage cheese and a dark fruit (like blueberries) pre-workout, I warm-up first - then lift, I drink a protein shake after right lifting (whey isolate, dextrose, creatine, l-glut), then 20-minutes minimum cardio, then foam-roll with leg concentration, then about 20 minutes stretching.  (Got a lot of time on my hands.)   I also try to have a higher carb meal about 1-2 hours after all such.   Perhaps being 58 years old doesn't help.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Sep 11, 2013)

Eiserner Hahn said:


> New reputation!
> 
> Hi, you have received -31598 reputation points from Eiserner Hahn.
> Reputation was given for this post.
> ...



Ahhh, the truth hurts. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Sep 11, 2013)

Robert Parrish said:


> I actually try to eat and exercise smart, and it sure doesn't feel like I'm doing too much at the leg-day time.



*3-4 days of severe quad, glute, and hamstring soreness.*

Does that seen normal to you? 

*Stimulate Don't Annihilate*

The purpose of a training program is to stimulate muscle growth rather to traumatize yourself to prolong recovery.  

That type of soreness is counterproductive to progress. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## Robert Parrish (Sep 11, 2013)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> *3-4 days of severe quad, glute, and hamstring soreness.*
> 
> Does that seen normal to you?
> 
> ...


No, not at all normal, thus my post.  Truly appreciate your response/help.


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## l69lou (Sep 11, 2013)

Cut the cardio post leg workout . Try Bcaa's post workout , they make a difference in recovery along with glutamine 10g post workout. What you have is delayed onset muscle soreness. Often caused by overtraining. The amount of exersises seem good , don't know about sets and reps. Eat at least 40g of protein with that high carb meal post workout. I am 58 also and am 270 at 9% bf so although it does get harder to recouperate you still have it in you !


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## Robert Parrish (Sep 12, 2013)

l69lou said:


> Cut the cardio post leg workout . Try Bcaa's post workout , they make a difference in recovery along with glutamine 10g post workout. What you have is delayed onset muscle soreness. Often caused by overtraining. The amount of exersises seem good , don't know about sets and reps. Eat at least 40g of protein with that high carb meal post workout. I am 58 also and am 270 at 9% bf so although it does get harder to recouperate you still have it in you !


Grazie.  Will try cutting out cardio that day.  I do drink about 5g bcaa's _during _my workouts.  I read up on delayed onset muscle soreness; seems like NOT doing lunges _and _squats same day might help (mistakenly called lunges *farmers walk* in orig post).  Again, thanks.


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## zthrill (Sep 12, 2013)

Leg day is the only day my muscles get intensely sore. It usually happens 2 days after. I just think of it as how great of a workout it was.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Sep 13, 2013)

zthrill said:


> Leg day is the only day my muscles get intensely sore. It usually happens 2 days after. I just think of it as how great of a workout it was.



*Chronic Soreness*

If your leg are continuously sore 2 days after your workout, you program need to be re-written. 

*Reinterating*

Let me restate that the purpose of training is to stimulate not annihilate muscle growth.  

Chronic soreness of indicates that the muscle have accrued more trauma than they can deal with.

*Would Healing*

The greater the trauma, the longer the recovery period needed to just get back to normal.  

*Any Idiot*

It doesn't take a lot of brains to overtrain.  

The key is to push yourself enough to stimulate muscle growth. 

*Recovery Time*

Then you want to program in enough recovery time for Supercompenstation, where the muscle become larger and stronger.

*Periodization Training*

Periodization Training is one of the major keys that provides a sine cure approach to training.  

A good program has a rhythmic cycle of fluctuation between easy an intense training

This "Ebb and Flow" allows stimulation for growth and easy session for recovery. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## SheriV (Sep 13, 2013)

I annihilated my quads and ass three days ago now and I'm still a little sore..

I just plain bit off more than I can chew ..


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## dieseljimmy (Sep 13, 2013)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> *Village Idiot*
> ??
> Thanks for identifying yourself as one of the Village Idiots.
> 
> ...




*whats up

*with your formatting?

dieseljimmy


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## KelJu (Sep 13, 2013)

If you are experiencing severe leg soreness after a few weeks of consistent training, something is wrong. Either your diet is off, you are over training, or you are not training often enough. Ignore anyone who says otherwise. You are suppose to be a little sore, but nothing severe. I train the fuck out of my legs and I run 3 days a week and I still only experience moderate soreness.


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## LAM (Sep 13, 2013)

Robert Parrish said:


> I do legs once a week.  Typically front or back squats, machine leg press (I do each leg separately), farmers walk w/barbell on shoulders, and machine calf raises.  Next day & a half to two days, no soreness.  Then, 3-4 days of severe quad, glute, and hamstring soreness.  So bad I can barely sit down to take a dump, let alone get up afterwards.  What, if anything, should I alter?  More frequent leg days?  Less reps?  Less weight?  Fewer exercises?  Thanks for any advice.



delayed onset muscle soreness is caused by micro-trauma to skeletal muscle and the loss of calcium homeostasis in the muscle cell.  L-Glutamine and creatine can help but post exercise stretching should also always be part of your training regimen.

the intensity of DOMS differs from person to person and in various muscle groups in the same person.


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## Bigjay73 (Sep 13, 2013)

I used to do legs on Fridays, then by Sunday I had pain like you do. Now I do them midweek. My work is pretty physical, it seems the activities I do on the job help keep the muscles loose and recovery is less painful.


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## dave 236 (Sep 13, 2013)

KelJu said:


> If you are experiencing severe leg soreness after a few weeks of consistent training, something is wrong. Either your diet is off, you are over training, or you are not training often enough. Ignore anyone who says otherwise. You are suppose to be a little sore, but nothing severe. I train the fuck out of my legs and I run 3 days a week and I still only experience moderate soreness.



This is right. If you've acclimated yourself to training legs and are progressively adding stimuli in a productive way your 
Legs should feel a bit rubbery for a day or two and maybe even a bit sore but it shouldnt be a distracting amount of discomfort. You are either over doing the amount of weight you're using or the volume of reps and sets you're performing. Otherwise you'd adapt pretty quickly and need to add more stimulation to feel a similar amount of soreness again anytime soon. 
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## LAM (Sep 15, 2013)

Bigjay73 said:


> I used to do legs on Fridays, then by Sunday I had pain like you do. Now I do them midweek. My work is pretty physical, it seems the activities I do on the job help keep the muscles loose and recovery is less painful.



when you perform low intensity exercise for a body part that was recently trained it's called "active-recovery" and it's a very effective method of reducing DOMS.  basically the enhanced bloodflow from low intensity exercise which will bring higher amounts of oxygen and nutrients to that area.


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## Robert Parrish (Sep 16, 2013)

Ok.  Today is leg day.  Will take most advice to heart.  Thanks all.  I'll let ya know in 3-4 days.


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## Robert Parrish (Sep 18, 2013)

Robert Parrish said:


> Ok.  Today is leg day.  Will take most advice to heart.  Thanks all.  I'll let ya know in 3-4 days.


Pain is about 10% of what it used to be; more of a simple soreness, mostly in the quads.  Advice truly helpful.


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## MuscleGauge1 (Sep 18, 2013)

You will notice this happening in the beginning if you are doing legs but it gets better with time. I blast my legs so hard it hurts every single time I do them I can't walk the next day ever. I would suggest doing some light cardio the same day to help with soreness and stretch some too.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Sep 20, 2013)

MuscleGauge1 said:


> You will notice this happening in the beginning if you are doing legs but it gets better with time.



*General Adaptation Syndrome*

As you note, the body will become acclimated over time.  This is one of the components of the General Adaptation Syndrome. 

*Minimal Soreness*

However, soreness is minimized by starting out easy. 

Starting out too heavy cause a high degree of soreness.  



MuscleGauge1 said:


> I blast my legs so hard it hurts every single time I do them I can't walk the next day ever.



*Delusional *

Chronic soreness that produces an effect of not being able to walk the next day after training legs is a delusional concept.  It is counter productive. 

*Wound Healing*

The greater the trauma to the muscles/body, the longer the recovery period necessary.  

*Stimulate*

As I have posted before, a good program provides enough stimulation to increase muscle mass and/or strength.  

High intensity training that produces chronic soreness after EVERY training session is a really bad idea. 

*Periodization Training*

The point of this is to write a program that includes light easy weeks to allow for recovery. 

It also incorporates all out "max" weeks where you push it to the limit or beyond.  

*NO Brainer*

Any idiot can write a program that annihilates the muscles and the central nervous system. 

A well written program provide an anabolic environment for progress.  



MuscleGauge1 said:


> I would suggest doing some light cardio the same day to help with soreness and stretch some too.



*Active Recovery*

As LAM stated, light cardio or some light high repetitive movement help with recovery.

*Circulatory System*

Increasing blood flow via light Active Recovery increase recovery in two ways. 

1) Delivery of nutrients to the muscles.

2) Hauls off the trash (like lactic acid, noted for soreness).

*Stretching*

There is some data that indicates this may help alleviate soreness.  

I believe it can help, as well.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## Fishman44 (Oct 1, 2013)

John meadows recommends drinking cyclic dextrin carbs with hydro casein intra to help recovery and reduce DOMS.  I tried it for a few months and it did reduce the DOMS, but the casein tastes like ass


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## docdoom77 (Oct 5, 2013)

And don't forget the simple things like walking around for a while.  If you are stationary too much after leg days (because of your job or because they hurt) it will get worse.  It definitely relieves the pain to get them moving.  I also find a hot bath with bath salts to be pretty good for reducing my soreness.  Leg soreness is always the worst.


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## jason_mazzy (Oct 5, 2013)

I have found Vitamin C and drinking pure Amino Acids during my workout to be the key to losing the soreness. I used to be sore and use that to gauge how well I worked out, then I read a study about Vitamin C and the effects on muscle soreness. Well while reading that article I began thinking about the glycogen breakdown and hyperplasia during recovery and how we are always trying to hit "the anabolic window" with our proteins so I began to slowly infuse Amino Acids during the workout with sugar My theory was as I broke it down I could supply the sugar and amino acids the muscles would be needing to refuel and restore. I noticed an improvement the first day. I could train and train and I would get tired but I wouldn't feel like I had blasted the muscle group to death. My workout became longer and my recovery became improved and little to no soreness the next day. It was great unfortunately you can still over train, my newfound blasting took a toll on my tendons which do not recover like a muscle group does. So be careful but I bet this works for most who want to try it.


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## Robert Parrish (Oct 5, 2013)

Another *leg* day since original post.  Did not do squats and lunges together any of the leg days, and soreness greatly diminished (though a pleasant-enough soreness to know I did "enough").   I asked my wife about bath salts, and she said blowjobs would be better.  She was right. . .


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## Kenny Croxdale (Oct 6, 2013)

jason_mazzy said:


> I have found Vitamin C and drinking pure Amino Acids during my workout to be the key to losing the soreness.



This is absurd.  



jason_mazzy said:


> Well while reading that article I began thinking about the glycogen breakdown and hyperplasia during recovery...



Hyperplasia does not occur in humans.  

Research demonstrated that to some extent is occurred in birds.

When you're reincarnated into a bird, fly back and talk to us. 

*Role of muscle fiber hypertrophy and hyperplasia in intermittently stretched avian muscle.*
Role of muscle fiber hypertrophy and h... [J Appl Physiol (1985). 1993] - PubMed - NCBI



jason_mazzy said:


> My theory was as I broke it down I could supply the sugar and amino acids the muscles would be needing to refuel and restore.



Interesting, your theory falls in line with about all the previous research data. 

The muscle neck geeks will be glad to know you approve of their research. 



jason_mazzy said:


> My workout became longer...



*"You can train hard or long but not both."* Vince Gironda

A huge component of increasing muscle mass and strength is intensity.  

There is an inverse relationship between time and intensity.  When one goes up, the other goes down.

Thus, the longer the workout, the less intense. 



jason_mazzy said:


> and my recovery became improved and little to no soreness the next day.



A good Pre, Peri and Post Workout Beverage will improve recovery.  

However, it will not eliminated blasting "the muscle group to death".  "To death" is a hyperbolic phrase...misuse and over used.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## jason_mazzy (Oct 6, 2013)

Kenny explain to me why the vitamin C and amino acids is absurd?

 Also why so combative towards me? I was just sharing my experience after I was dealing with severe muscle soreness. This was stuff I came up with about 6-8 years ago when I was feeling so burned up I couldn't move the next day.


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## jason_mazzy (Oct 7, 2013)

http://www.setantacollege.com/wp-content/uploads/Journal_db/Skeletal muscle fibres.pdf   The conclusion lends itself to hyperplasia in adult skeletal muscle. Perhaps I am reading the study conclusion incorrectly.


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## MuscleGauge1 (Oct 7, 2013)

If your legs aren't sore after leg day then you aren't Doing something right bro. It's really a different type of feeling when you are doing legs. You really should feel your legs are jello.... That's the feeling I get when I do legs. It's really a different type of feeling. It works out better when you stretch after your workout.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Oct 9, 2013)

MuscleGauge1 said:


> If your legs aren't sore after leg day then you aren't Doing something right bro.



*Soreness*

Soreness after every leg day or in training any muscle group is UN-necessary to obtain growth. 

Some occasional mild soreness is acceptable.   

However, soreness after every training session is a form of stupidity.  

*Any Idiot*

It doesn't take a lot of brains to bludgeon your muscle into submission.  Any idiot can, most do. 

*More Effective Approach*

The key is to provide enough stress to the muscles to simulate growth in the recovery period.

Chronic soreness tells an individual that you have annihilated the muscle. That  is never good.  

*Head Pump*

Your statement follows the thought process of taking some kind of vile tasting medicine. 

_"The worse the taste, the better is for you."  _

*Cross Fit Mentality*

The poster children getting into the overtraining ozone is, "Keep pushing/pulling until you pass out".  

*Rhabdomyolysis*

The Cross Fit cult has established themselves as the poster children for Rhabdomyolysis.  

Chronic soreness after each training session is a pathway to Rhabdomyolysis, amount other things. 

*Robert Parrish*

Robert's, the original poster, soreness problem was an indication that he was in or near Rhabdomyolysis.

I admire Robert's mental toughness in training.  Robert simply didn't have enough knowledge to understand the ramifications. 

*Offensive*

What I find offensive is that with someone of your purported background and knowledge base should know better.  

What disturbs me is when poor information is posted and individuals with less knowledge embrace it and destructively use it in their training program.  



MuscleGauge1 said:


> It works out better when you stretch after your workout.



There appears to be some benefits to post workout stretching. 

With that said, a when the full range movement is preformed in a movement, the benefits of stretching are obtain in the workout. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Oct 9, 2013)

jason_mazzy said:


> Kenny explain to me why the vitamin C and amino acids is absurd?



Jason,

*Research Data*

Provide for me research data that Vitamin C and amino acids alleviate soreness.  

*Adaptation*

Research shows that soreness is resolved in training session through adaptation, The General Adaptation Syndrome. 

That when a new training method or exercise is initially employed some soreness usually occurs because the muscle are not familiar with the movement.  

What often occurs with those performing new methods/movements is and individual tends to optimistically overload the movement which stresses out the muscle even more.  

That produces even more soreness, such as Robert Parris (original poster) 3 - 4 days of soreness.  This type of soreness is self destructive. 

*DOMS*

Delayed Onset of Muscle Soreness is most prevalent with Eccentric Training.  

Two of the major reasons is, as stated above. 

1) Introduction to a new method/movement. 

2) Overloading the eccentric movement from the beginning. 

*Warren Frost "Eccentric Movements: Description, definition and designing programmes."*

Frost research demonstrated many things.  

Two of them being...

1) With each eccentric training session, the body adapts to it's new training environment and less soreness occurs. 

2) When introducing Eccentric ONLY into you program, very little soreness occurs when you ease into it with submax loads.

*Back To Your Original Question*

There is not research demonstrating the Vitamin C and amino acids do what you claim.  If so, I'm interesting in reviewing it. 

What appear to occur is training adaption occurs.  



jason_mazzy said:


> Also why so combative towards me? I was just sharing my experience after I was dealing with severe muscle soreness. This was stuff I came up with about 6-8 years ago when I was feeling so burned up I couldn't move the next day.



I apologize for my rudeness. 

I find inaccurate information offensive.  

I don't see how this formula will work.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Oct 9, 2013)

jason_mazzy said:


> http://www.setantacollege.com/wp-content/uploads/Journal_db/Skeletal muscle fibres.pdf   The conclusion lends itself to hyperplasia in adult skeletal muscle. Perhaps I am reading the study conclusion incorrectly.



*Dr. Jose Antonio*

Antonio, who wrote the article is one of the best, one of my favorites.

*However...*

The research article is from 1993.  I have not seen any "proof positive" since then that documents hyperplasia as a fact in humans. 

The data is based more on speculation, not fact.  

Today hyperplasia in humans is still being debated.  In other word, there's no definitive proof that it occurs in humans. 

*Hypertrophy*

The increase in the size of muscles occurs from hypertrophy.

Thus, hypertrophy is triggered with the right training program.   

*Myostatin*

What appears to be one of the biggest factors in hypertrophy is myostatin. 

*Credit Card Genetic Freaks*

Myostatin is like having genetic credit card limit of let's say $50,000.   

Phil Heath, Jay Cutler, Ronny Coleman, etc have these muscle mass "credit cards".  

*Less Genetically Fortunate*

The genetically less fortunate have credit card limits of $1,000 or $5,000 or let's say $10.000

*Better Lifting Through Chemistry*

Research on myostatin blockers is one of the hot topics.  

The research is geared toward solving muscle wasting issues like muscular dystrophy, AIDS, etc. 

With most medication of this nature, bodybuilder's are interested in the use of myostatin as a mean of increasing muscle mass.  

As with most medications, myostatin also has a dark side.  

*Nuclear Power*

It like nuclear power.  If you harness it right, it can be a great tool.  

Misused, you end up blowing yourself up.  

*Myostatin Animal Pictures*
Monstrous Myostatin Misfortunes – A Collection of Myostatin Deficiency Pictures | Who Sucks

Kenny Croxdale


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## MuscleGauge1 (Oct 10, 2013)

Thanks for the information Kenny. Sounds good I think that's a good plan actually. Your right being sore after every workout is dumb but being sore on leg day is acceptable I agree with this. There are some instances where soreness is definitely the only option thanks for letting me know about the other stuff


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