# Unexpected issues with EC stack... what to do?



## Skib (Apr 19, 2009)

So it's that time of year where summer is just around the corner and most bodybuilders, including myself, are looking to shed some excess winter body fat in order to look their best for the upcoming warmer months...

I started a cut back in February that I was progressing well with but told myself starting April I would kick things up a notch and do a 6-8 week EC stack cycle... so I picked up a bottle of 25mg ephedrine and a bottle of 200mg caffeine... I've had success using a 1:10 ratio dose in the past and figured that's what I would stick with this time around as well...

Normally I'll take one 25mg ephedrine and one 200mg caffeine prior to training for the first 5-7 days, then the next week step it up to a dose prior to training and another 3-4 hours after and by the 3rd week max out at 3 doses a day spread out 3-4 hours...

Now here's where I've run into trouble... it's been a couple years since I've done an EC stack and over that time I've developed a fairly moderate addiction to coffee... not too bad though... I usually drink a fair size mug with about 3 scoops of coffee in the AM and another in the PM...

So the first thing I noticed when I started this new EC stack was the 25 and 200 dose didn't seem to have the same effect on me as it used to... so by day 2 I was taking 2 doses and by day 4 or 5 I was already taking the 3 doses that I normally don't start taking until week 3... all the while still having my AM coffee...

It's been about a week and a half and I'm becoming fairly discouraged as I've been taking 3 doses a day for about a week or so now and am just not feeling the effects that I used to... I don't really get that revved up, high energy feeling that I used to get... and I feel like I need to take at least 3 doses just to avoid crashing through out the day...

Now I read somewhere that even after your body adjusts to the stimulating effects that the stack is still working at the molecular level and is thus still effective... is there any truth to that?

So what should I do? I don't particularly want to up my dose to 4 times a day... just seems like a lot... has anyone else had this problem?

I should make it clear that I'm not doing this for the so called "high" but rather the thermogenic properties of the EC stack... if I'm not really getting the energetic feeling that comes along with the stack is it still going to be effective?

Any advice would be appreciated!


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## Built (Apr 19, 2009)

You're never going to feel as wired as you did that first time you ran the stack.

The biggest thing you can hope for with EC is appetite suppression and energy. You do get some thermogenesis, but that's small in comparison to the anorectant effect and energy - you can thank catecholamine stimulation for both of these. As an aside, ephedrine really opens up your breathing - it is, after all, a decongestant. Honestly, between the increased lipolysis due to catecholamine release and the breathing thing, it's the ultimate cardio supplement. 

Is your appetite well-controlled?


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## Skib (Apr 19, 2009)

Hey Built, thanks for the response... I know I hit you up with some Q's when I first started this stack...

Yes, appetite is fine... not an issue at all...

Maybe I'll just stick to what I've been doing for a couple more weeks then taper off for a bit and run it for another few weeks in June...

In all honesty I'm not depending on this EC stack to reach my goals by any means... it's only April and I'm already happy with how I look so I figure things can only get better...

I was just more or less wondering why I seem to have developed such a tolerance to this stuff and if I should keep my dose where it's at or increase it... yesterday for exampe I took my last dose at 8pm and had no problem going to bed around 12... my current dose isn't disrupting my sleep by any means...


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## Built (Apr 19, 2009)

I've had no trouble at all running 1000mg caffeine and 80mg ephedrine daily - which I consumed as 200 mg caffeine and 16mg ephedrine 5x a day.  

Your own tolerance will be different of course.


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## Ngordyn (Apr 19, 2009)

id say since you were intaking so much caffeine the effects of the stimulant have just lessoned , the actual beneficial effects of it however will stay

and yes there is truth in the ephedrine working even when you do not "feel" the effects 

personally i believe thats why it is considered dangerous , people believe if they do not feel it then it is not effective therefore increasing their dosages eventually to highly unsafe levels


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## CG (Apr 19, 2009)

Built, thanks for crushing my dreams of duplicating the feeling of my first EC stack.. I personally rode it out for 5 weeks at 25 mg E and 220 mg C about an hour (or so) pre workout or whenever I got up on the weekends, to get that kick just in time.
Personally, since that was my first run at an EC stack, I kept it at the 25/220 ratio throughout, since adverse side effects (ok there's like none but whatever, figured I'd keep it level) and the fact that the energy and buzz from it only started to taper down at the end of the stack. For my second round, which is currently dependent on me finding a new job/gym, I am thinking of startin 25 E up to 50 afterr the first week or 2.. Funny side note, I noticed a faster and more steady weight (hopefully fat) loss AFTER my stack was done.. Anyone have the same idea??


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## presto1 (Apr 19, 2009)

For those of us not familiar with the "EC Stack," could you tell me a little bit more about it? 

Where to get it? Ingredients? Etc.?


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## danzik17 (Apr 19, 2009)

presto1 said:


> For those of us not familiar with the "EC Stack," could you tell me a little bit more about it?
> 
> Where to get it? Ingredients? Etc.?



Ephedrine HCL, Caffeine.

Caffeine can either be in the form of a supplement, or you can just take it my preferred way and drink a cup of coffee with the Ephedrine.


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## Ngordyn (Apr 20, 2009)

the ephedrine will be more difficult to find less u live in canada. 

it is a very effective thermogenic, but if taken a too high of dose without gradually increase will cause nervousness and jitters , sometimes anxiety , and an extremely raised heart rate


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## presto1 (Apr 20, 2009)

Thanks! I think finding the Ephedrine will be the issue.


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## Kevsworld (Apr 20, 2009)

*EC Stack*

Here's some info:  ECA Stack

For the original poster:  are you using an herbal formula or the chemical grade?  Are you using the exact same brands you used the first time?  

Some pills are ephedrine sulfate, not ephedrine hcl.  There can be a difference in potency and what you feel.


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## CG (Apr 20, 2009)

My personal favorite is www.dnepharmeceuticals.com theyr the only place I trust (since their lab and storefront are like a half hour away from me) they are also the only ones I found to retail pure ephedrine


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## juggernaut (Apr 20, 2009)

Built said:


> I've had no trouble at all running 1000mg caffeine and 80mg ephedrine daily - which I consumed as 200 mg caffeine and 16mg ephedrine 5x a day.
> 
> Your own tolerance will be different of course.


1000mg of wakeup juice AND 80mg of ephedrine???? WTF????? Oh wait. I forgot. You're Built. You crap thunder and piss lightning.


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## Built (Apr 20, 2009)

Honey. NOT ALL AT ONCE!!! That was in five divided doses LOL!


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## CG (Apr 20, 2009)

juggernaut said:


> 1000mg of wakeup juice AND 80mg of ephedrine???? WTF????? Oh wait. I forgot. You're Built. You crap thunder and piss lightning.



Man, I've figured out how to model some things after built's teachings, but crapping thunder and pissing lightning? That sounds like it'd be tough


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## juggernaut (Apr 20, 2009)

Not for Built, CG. she beyond advanced superhuman status. She's hot too. Take a look at her pics on her site.


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## juggernaut (Apr 20, 2009)

Built said:


> Honey. NOT ALL AT ONCE!!! That was in five divided doses LOL!


 still though. I like the effects of the EC stack...but thats like putting a hamster inside my heart and fast forwarding fat loss.


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## danzik17 (Apr 20, 2009)

Been getting mine from SBMuscle and it's perfectly fine.  Good price too.


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## juggernaut (Apr 20, 2009)

I use bronkaid.


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## Built (Apr 20, 2009)

juggernaut said:


> 1000mg of wakeup juice AND 80mg of ephedrine???? WTF????? Oh wait. I forgot. You're Built. You crap thunder and piss lightning.





Cgrant said:


> Man, I've figured out how to model some things after built's teachings, but crapping thunder and pissing lightning? That sounds like it'd be tough



It helps when you sit to pee.


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## Merkaba (Apr 20, 2009)

...probably couldve helped if you cut caff for a while before starting the stack.  Unless youre really addicted.  Which would really suck.  I suggest you try it next time.  NO caffeine at all for say two weeks.


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## Tank316 (Apr 20, 2009)

Built said:


> It helps when you sit to pee.


After a 12 hr shift, I have something to laugh at..LMAO!!!


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## Ngordyn (Apr 21, 2009)

LOL i love this forum


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## CG (Apr 21, 2009)

Tank316 said:


> After a 12 hr shift, I have something to laugh at..LMAO!!!



After that I wouldn't want to THINK about sitting on a toilet... Wait, you said shift lol..

In all seriousness, has anyone else noticed a more dramatic weight loss AFTER they finished the stack?!


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## Ngordyn (Apr 21, 2009)

Cgrant said:


> After that I wouldn't want to THINK about sitting on a toilet... Wait, you said shift lol..
> 
> In all seriousness, has anyone else noticed a more dramatic weight loss AFTER they finished the stack?!



i have but that was just because my water intake was lower after the the stack , so for a few weeks i lost a little water weight i was carrying "just in case"


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## presto1 (Apr 22, 2009)

Built said:


> Honey. NOT ALL AT ONCE!!! That was in five divided doses LOL!




Does this comment mean you don't take all of the supplement at once or, you don't crap thunder and piss lightning all at once?


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## Built (Apr 22, 2009)

Some of life's little mysteries deserve to be left unsolved.


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## juggernaut (Apr 22, 2009)

yeah...but visual speculation is so much more fun.


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## jmorrison (Apr 22, 2009)

Cgrant said:


> Man, I've figured out how to model some things after built's teachings, but crapping thunder and pissing lightning? That sounds like it'd be tough



After modeling my day to day routine on Built's advice, I have now progressed to being able to crap my pants and piss myself on command.

The way I see it I am halfway there.  

With a little dedication, you too can reach this level of fitness.


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## vader (Apr 22, 2009)

wow, all the Ephedrine! I can't take that stuff, I never eat and get irritable as hell. Just coffee for me please, I guess I will catch hell if/when I decide to drop BF.


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## Built (Apr 22, 2009)

jmorrison said:


> After modeling my day to day routine on Built's advice, I have now progressed to being able to crap my pants and piss myself on command.
> 
> The way I see it I am halfway there.
> 
> With a little dedication, you too can reach this level of fitness.



Spongeworthy.


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## Kevsworld (Apr 23, 2009)

Assuming you are taking the same dosage and the same brand as before, you can be assured you will get the same benefits from the supplement.  You've probably just developed a higher tolerance for stimulants.

But taking Ephedrine Sulfate vs Ephedrine HCL can make a difference (sulfate is less potent).   Herbal forms are also less potent.


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## juggernaut (Apr 23, 2009)

hence the reason for me using bronkaid. Available at pharmacies everywhere...sort of.


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## Liftman (Apr 23, 2009)

When I first started using the this stack (1994 WOW) Dan used to put out a news letter called dirty dieting and he said use ECA with L-carnitine and Hydroxycitric Acid I can't remember the actual doses but I think it was 25mg E, 200mg C, a bady or heart health 87 Asprin, one tab of L-carnitine and one tab of Hydro Acid, 3 times a day to start and not more than 5 times a day. This worked great for me but I had to buy it all seperate at the time because no one had a stack. Funny with in 3 years a major diet aid came out called....hydroxicut and it was the stack. The original stuff was anyway. The stuff now pales in compairison.

What I have found so many years later is the E isn't as good but still works. 

Today I use the same stack, sometimes I buy it all seprate or I have had good luck with Lipodrene 3 to 5 times a day Monday thru Friday and non on WE's


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## juggernaut (Apr 23, 2009)

i was never certain why the aspirin was put in place with the EC-A stack.


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## Liftman (Apr 23, 2009)

The theroy on the aspirin is that it thins the blood just a bit and helps with circulation to carry the rest of the stack around the blood stream I guess. I put it in because the guru Dan Duchaine said to. LOL

BTW the first stack was ECA then the aspirin was dropped by some to just be EC


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## juggernaut (Apr 23, 2009)

well I knew that, but I'm not certain as to why they would actually add that in.


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## Kevsworld (Apr 23, 2009)

As I mentioned in my article, I'm not sure aspirin makes much difference.


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## Ngordyn (Apr 25, 2009)

another "reason" for aspirin is to extend the length of time it is active so instead of a burst of energy it is a extended energy of less power , this theory is to prevent heavy crashes


tho i have noticed no difference so ya


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