# Open your eyes the dangers of Muscle milk



## TheBigA (Sep 12, 2006)

Ive used many brands of protein powders from some of th cheapest brands to the most expensive brands when I first began weight training.

I soon realized things werent are dry and cut as they first seemed and that the protein I was consuming could be dangerous and alot of the time was dangerous so now I only use one make of protein powder.

Lets begin with one of the most popular protein powder around Muscle milk Plz take the time and carefully read this article on this link.


http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle...DC1C35518522E0F0DB0.hydra?article=06-140-diet


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## P-funk (Sep 12, 2006)

Thanks for posting this.

The only thing is, I have the Muscle Milk WHEY protein (not the one that is shown in the picture that he is talking about...the one with the huge amounts of fat in it) and the ingredients list none of the things he is talking about.  Is he refering to just that one product?


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## TheBigA (Sep 12, 2006)

Thanx P-funk

I am not entirely sure but it does open flaws in the company and I would suggest discontinueing using this product and for others to do the same.


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## P-funk (Sep 12, 2006)

well, i don't want to just jump to conclusions on this.  just because one product has a "flaw" doesn't mean that they all do.

Anyone else have an opinion or info on this?

trouble?


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## TheBigA (Sep 12, 2006)

True but more often than not it does mean and are u willing to risk your health one of the most important things in life?

All for a protein shake?

After all if u dont have your health or u get cancer and die u dont have a life.

P-funk and its flaws not flaw.


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## MCx2 (Sep 12, 2006)

TheBigA said:


> True but more often than not it does mean and are u willing to risk your health one of the most important things in life?
> 
> All for a protein shake?
> 
> After all if u dont have your health or u get cancer and die u dont have a life.


 
If I had to stop doing everything that could "potentially kill me", I'd hate life so much I'd kill myself. 

Hopefully there is a logical explanation to this article but will I still drink the 10 RTD Muscle Milks I have at the house? You bet your booty.


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## TheBigA (Sep 12, 2006)

Yes but why take an unessery risk.

Especially for something like a protein shake?

Theres other brands out there.


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## TheBigA (Sep 12, 2006)

Theres knowing your taking a risk and there not knowing.

Theres a difference to u using something and u knowing the risks and u using something and not knowing the health risks and your health being ruined in the process.

I hope I have opened a feuw ppls eyes who were oblivious of the health and cancer risks of taking muscle milk.

Thanx for your time


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## AKIRA (Sep 12, 2006)

Ive drank it for quite some time and though I am not a "gung-ho" customer, I would just have to hear both sides of the story.  I am not a biochemist, doctor, or scientist, so I cant really believe everything I read without hearing everything.

Interesting study though.  I dont drink as much muscle milk as I used to, I usually split it with another product since muscle milk isnt that expensive.

That article, I dont know, it reminds me of some coverage I saw on 60minutes or Dateline NBC about microwaves causing cancer and cell phones causing tumors.  They have valid points, but to live in fear about shit like that is insane.  I know a friends mom that wanted to remove her microwave from her house cuz it was going to kill her.  Yeah, I want to be like that.


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## Trouble (Sep 12, 2006)

This compound is NOT likely to build up to cytotoxic levels because you have methionine transmethylation reactions that results in natural creatine synthesis.

Only GAMT gene deficient individuals would have neurotoxic effects from using this compound.

But wait, our author presupposes that because you aren't getting your full fucking 10 grams of betaine anhydrous, your aren't getting your fill of methylation power.

He then *misses* the only salient ingredient that you might want to think twice about in this product: CLA.

Its a mixture of isomers, one is exaggerates and other controls insulin response.  Most of us do no recommend its use.  The company really should reconsider its use, along with the dose of MCT (which this author correctly points to being on the high side).

Creatine is formed by the transmethylation of guanidine-acetic acid ransmethylation with methionine.  The methionine is the endproduct of the folate/homocysteine pathway in liver.

The rest of the story:

Activation of GABA(A) receptors by guanidinoacetate: a novel pathophysiological mechanism.  Neu A, Neuhoff H, Trube G, Fehr S, Ullrich K, Roeper J, Isbrandt D.  Zentrum fur Molekulare Neurobiologie Hamburg, Universitat Hamburg, Germany.  Neurobiol Dis. 2002 11(2):298-307.

*Guanidinoacetate methyltransferase (GAMT) deficiency is an autosomal recessively inherited disorder of creatine biosynthesis. *The disease occurs in early life with developmental delay or arrest and several neurological symptoms, e.g., seizures and dyskinesia. Both the deficiency of high-energy phosphates in neurons and the neurotoxic action of the accumulated metabolite guanidinoacetate (GAA) are candidate mechanisms for the pathophysiology of this disease. To examine a potential role of GAA accumulation, we analyzed the electrophysiological responses of neurons induced by GAA application in primary culture and acute murine brain slices. GAA evoked picrotoxin- and bicuculline-sensitive GABA(A) receptor-mediated chloride currents with an EC(50) of 167 microM in cortical neurons. Pathophysiologically relevant GAA concentrations hyperpolarized globus pallidus neurons and reduced their spontaneous spike frequency with an EC(50) of 15.1 microM. Furthermore, GAA acted as a partial agonist at heterologously expressed GABA(A) but not GABA(B) receptors. *The interaction of GAA with neuronal GABA(A) receptors represents a candidate mechanism explaining neurological dysfunction in GAMT deficiency.*


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## Dbrickashaw (Sep 12, 2006)

What's wrong with CLA?


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## P-funk (Sep 12, 2006)

troubleownage


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## Dale Mabry (Sep 12, 2006)

P-funk said:


> troubleownage









In high enough doses, water can kill you, so do you give up water?


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## P-funk (Sep 12, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:


> In high enough doses, water can kill you, so do you give up water?



if you ask mercola maybe.


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## Flakko (Sep 12, 2006)

The guy who wrote that article isn't the same one who said that Swole V2 and NO-Xplode were bad for your health too?

I'll say this being 100% honest. I thing that I like about ironmagazineforums.com is that we don't see biased threads like that.
We all know about Muscletech issue, but I've never seen Mr DiMaggio write a whole thread to diss a product.
IMO this guy just trying to create controversy.

Seriously, with all the safety measure in the U.S. post 9/11, do you honestly think the FDA or USDA will allow companies to sell something that could potentially harm you?
What happened with ephedra? They said it was bad for you and they banned it. What happened with Pro Hormones (eventhough I didn't agree on this one) they thought they were bad and banned!
So do you think that if a product is dangerous enough to posses a threat to your health the U.S. Govermentment won't do something to take off the market?

Jut my two cents.


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## GFR (Sep 12, 2006)

I have much worse to quit than a protein powder, I wonder  what supplement co the writer works for .


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## Trouble (Sep 12, 2006)

This Barr fellow first started to write about these creatine precursors back in 2004 on T Nation.

Unfortunately, he can't tell an inhibitor from a precusor. He blithely comments on GPA, an inhibitor of creatine synthesis, as though it were acetate moiety mentioned in the first article.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=FD9944E2C74916B596A86FD522D2F9EF.hydra?id=459369

Damned junior scientist wannabes.


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## BigDyl (Sep 13, 2006)

Pwned!


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## Trouble (Sep 13, 2006)

ForemanRules said:


> I have much worse to quit than a protein powder, I wonder  what supplement co the writer works for .



Good question.  His bio is at the bottom of the second citation. If he has ulterior motives, its not immediate obvious why.


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## Pirate! (Sep 13, 2006)

Flakko said:


> do you honestly think the FDA or USDA will allow companies to sell something that could potentially harm you?


LOL, like Donuts, sausage and KFC? Of course they will allow this to be sold. There is much more dangerous foods/drugs on the market.

I've never thought Muscle Milk meal replacement is healthy, and I've never understood the claims by some that it is. All one has to do is read the label and not the hype.

Nothing beats real food. Tried and True.

P-Funk, if your Muscle Milk is whey, not the meal replacement, I wouldn't sweat it.


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## musclepump (Sep 13, 2006)

I take a CLA supplement. Is that bad?


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## Trouble (Sep 13, 2006)

Pirate! said:


> I've never thought Muscle Milk meal replacement is healthy, and I've never understood the claims by some that it is. All one has to do is read the label and not the hype. Nothing beats real food. Tried and True.
> P-Funk, if your Muscle Milk is whey, not the meal replacement, I wouldn't sweat it.



Pardon my being cynical here..

What is the difference between a blended whey powder and a MRP?

Water, maybe??

Like I said, the only questionable items I found in this product was the MCT content and the use of CLA.

Musclepump: you need to read a bit on more recent evidence on long-term use of CLA (mroe than a few months).  Most CLA sold is a mixture of isomers. Its possible, but very expensive, to produce nearly pure enantiomers (note that they can be bought from chemical supply companies..but they are for research purposes, not human consumption, plus they are expensive).

One of the two enantiomers is counter intuitive as a supplement - it decreases insulin sensitivity.  The mixture of isomers varies from suppliers, and some studies used pure enantiomers..  The confusing mixed results of CLA effects on metabolism from years of previously published studies was partially  resolved recently (2000-2004) when mechanisms of action became better understood. Part of the problem lies in species specific reactions (an important consideration when examining results derived from animal models).


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## Gordo (Sep 14, 2006)

I don't take CLA....but Trouble's comments got me curious because everything you hear quite often suggests it's a wonder drug. Seems most benefits are only short term....Am I understanding that correctly?

Also, seems like the latest stuff on CLA says that you should take it with Chromium and keep taking your fish oils:

 Lipids. 2006 May;41(5):437-44. 
Conjugated linoleic acid and chromium lower body weight and visceral fat mass in high-fat-diet-fed mice.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15867292

 Diabetes. 2005 Feb;54(2):412-23.Click here to read  Links
    Interaction of fish oil and conjugated linoleic acid in affecting hepatic activity of lipogenic enzymes and gene expression in liver and adipose tissue.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15677499

CLA on it's own might do nothing in the long run though:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/83/3/606

Lots of literature in the short run:
Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2003 Jul;27(7):840-7.
    The effect of conjugated linoleic acid supplementation after weight loss on body weight regain, body composition, and resting metabolic rate in overweight subjects.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12821971

Interesting:
 Br J Nutr. 2006 Jun;95(6):1112-9.Click here to read  Links
    trans-10,cis-12 Conjugated linoleic acid inhibits lipoprotein lipase but increases the activity of lipogenic enzymes in adipose tissue from hamsters fed an atherogenic diet.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16768833


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## SpeedyReedy5 (Sep 19, 2006)

I kind of figured that muscle milk was all hype...that is exactly why i stick with my protein


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## MCx2 (Sep 19, 2006)

I'm on my way to buy a case of Muscle Milk right now!!


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## visionsect (Sep 19, 2006)

I use muscle milk as a shampoo, conditioner, and body wash. The vanilla scent leaves me feeling all warm inside. Just kidding, but in all seriousness, I think that half the stuff out there for supplementation could be left out. I have only used one tub of muscle milk and I really liked it. I plan on buying more in the future, but I am usually very conscious of what I take in my body. My suggestion would be, if you really are worried about harmful effects, stick to food and keep it clean. You never know what something can do until it hits you.


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## GFR (Sep 19, 2006)

Trouble said:


> Pardon my being cynical here..
> 
> What is the difference between a blended whey powder and a MRP?
> 
> Water, maybe??


MRP= protein, carbs and fat
Whey= protein only ( might have trace amounts of fat and/or carbs)


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## AKIRA (Sep 19, 2006)

Actually, the last time I went to the muscle store, I went over to the MuscleMilk section and there was P-Funk's CytoSport WHEY.  So I said fuck it and bought it.  $21 I think.  Shit is real good too.  Not much far off from MuscleMilk in regards to taste.  And it really does instatize!  Err...except when you get to the bottom.


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## BigDyl (Sep 19, 2006)

ForemanRules said:


> MRP= protein, carbs and fat
> Whey= protein only ( might have trace amounts of fat and/or carbs)


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## GFR (Sep 19, 2006)

BigDyl said:


>


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## MCx2 (Sep 19, 2006)

Just had a Muscle Milk RTD. Mmmmmmmmm! Good stuff.


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## Tatyana (Sep 19, 2006)

Trouble said:


> Pardon my being cynical here..
> 
> What is the difference between a blended whey powder and a MRP?
> 
> ...



You must be an organic chemist or biochemist? 

I think that the profile of CLA is quite good from CNP (Chemical Nutrition), the Dorian Yates Approved stuff, and from Reflex. Both are UK companies. 

I may be a bit more thorough looking at it now though, as they do cost cost between $ 0.50-0.75/ 1 g cap. 

x
x
x

T


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## Tatyana (Sep 19, 2006)

*Cnp*

Pro-CLA 1000mg

The term CLA (Conjugated Linoleic Acid) is a collective one, referring to a mixture of isomers of linoleic acid. However, the studies identifying the anticatabolic properties of CLA and its ability to reduce bodyfat while enhancing lean body mass gains refer to a specific blend of only two isomers. The cis-9, trans11 and the trans10, cis-12 isomers are the only ones found to have any activity, the patent on CLA is for its weight management properties applies to a special 50:50 blend of these two isomers and no other. Due to the cost and protection offered by the patent, many companies have simply forged ahead by using cheap impure material, high in inactive isomers, yet they are claiming all the benefits referred to in the studies. Pro-CLA contains only the original patent-protected material and is provided as clear capsules, so that you may see that it is pure and devoid of the sediment normally found in other CLA products (most CLA is sold in brown capsules for this reason). It has over 80% total CLA content, -the highest on the market by far, so that you may realise the scientifically proven benefits of using the correct material. 

> Lipolytic Blend of CLA Isomers

> Reduces Adipose Tissue and Improves Immune Function

DIRECTIONS: Take 2-3 capsules twice a day with food.

INGREDIENTS: Conjugated Linoleic Acid 80% (from safflower oil), glycerin and gelatin.


Cut and paste


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## Flakko (Sep 19, 2006)

We making a big issue out of the opinion of some guy on another forum. How sure are that he's telling the truth?


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## Tatyana (Sep 20, 2006)

Flakko said:


> We making a big issue out of the opinion of some guy on another forum. How sure are that he's telling the truth?




With all those referenced papers after the article, it is more than opinion, he has given some proof.


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## X.Factor (Sep 20, 2006)

TheBigA why are you so against it and so concerned about the health the of other's? You seem "over-concerned" like your coming to this site trying to put a bad rep out there for Muscle Milk.


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## TheBigA (Sep 21, 2006)

Well youve got the wrong view of me if u think I am doing this to just rubish a company.

I like many comsumers like to know when my health could or will potentially be harmed and I feel others should know just like I would like to know if I was using a certain supplement and I didnt know the health risks associated with that supplement.

I on the other hand dont know what your gender is with what u have said.


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## juggernaut (Sep 24, 2006)

has anyone doubted the fact that this article came from a competitor? I'm not taking anything away from its valadity, but we all know how the press and forums can manipulate the public.


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## Flakko (Sep 24, 2006)

juggernaut said:


> has anyone doubted the fact that this article came from a competitor? I'm not taking anything away from its valadity, but we all know how the press and forums can manipulate the public.


Finally someone who agrees with me! And it had to be my pal Juggernaut


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## juggernaut (Sep 24, 2006)

true story


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## juggernaut (Sep 24, 2006)

and I cant believe I spelled validity wrong!!!!


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## Trouble (Sep 24, 2006)

ForemanRules said:


> MRP= protein, carbs and fat for schmucks who don't know their biochemistry
> Whey= protein, which can be readily converted to both glucose and fatty acids.



I was thinking of RTDs as MRPs, since CytoMax has recently released them Muscle Milk as high end RTDs.

Many, many protein supplements have additional goodies, including MCTs, inositol, choline, lethicin, fat soluble vitamins, etc --> all are added fats.

Many have additional carbs (sweetners, dextrose, and fiber).

They are labeled as protein supplements, not MRPs.  A weight gainer might be an MRP.  

Just for kicks.  Good price on Muscle Milk


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## GFR (Sep 24, 2006)

juggernaut said:


> has anyone doubted the fact that *this article came from a competitor?* I'm not taking anything away from its valadity, but we all know how the press and forums can manipulate the public.




I wish I would have read it a year ago, now I'm dead from drinking Muscle Milk and it's too late.


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## FishOrCutBait (Sep 24, 2006)

ForemanRules said:


> I wish I would have read it a year ago, now I'm dead from drinking Muscle Milk and it's too late.



I was gonna say, Foreman is clinically dead by now, drinks that stuff like water


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## juggernaut (Sep 25, 2006)

are we talking brain dead?


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## ZECH (Sep 25, 2006)

We had this discussion about glycocyamine about 2 yrs ago when syntrax came out with Swole. Their competitors claimed the same thing. From what I remembered is that the small amount in swole was actually beneficial and that, like Trouble stated, it was not enough to build up to toxic levels. I think this is just some sort of marketing ploy. I would not worry about it.


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## ZECH (Sep 25, 2006)

Flakko said:


> Seriously, with all the safety measure in the U.S. post 9/11, do you honestly think the FDA or USDA will allow companies to sell something that could potentially harm you?



Like Trouble has stated, they don't care as long as you don't claim to prevent a disease. It would be possible if they started having deaths from it, but you won't see it. But even with Ephedra and PH's, you didn't have the problems with it that should have brought them to their end. The number of people that had problems with Ephedra either abused it or used it incorrectly and was a very minute percentage vs. the total number of people who used it.


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## juggernaut (Sep 25, 2006)

which i cant fucking stand-they screwed perfectly good fat burner because of abuse.


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## Flakko (Sep 25, 2006)

One of these days we'll have to go back to food only proteins.
They'll ban everything, they will start with banning Foremanrules and that will be it!

Armaggedon!!!

"And the devil came here yesterday. Yesterday the devil came here. Right here." [crosses himself] "And it smells of sulfur still today."
Venezuelan President at The U.N. Assembly


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