# Coming Soon - Super-DMZ Rx from IronMagLabs



## Arnold (Jul 28, 2010)

we expect to have *Super-DMZ Rx* available in the next 2-3 weeks! (no price has been set yet)

the compound is: 17beta-hydroxy 2alpha,17, beta-dimethyl 5alpha, -androstan3-on azine

here is the label:


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## Arnold (Jul 28, 2010)

I will be looking for some testers/loggers also who will receive the product free in exchange for a daily log/journal and short review.


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## PushAndPull (Jul 28, 2010)

Prince said:


> I will be looking for some testers/loggers also who will receive the product free in exchange for a daily log/journal and short review.



Well that should be easy to find


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## nni (Jul 28, 2010)

can't believe you used the name.


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## SenorBlumpkin (Jul 28, 2010)

Hmm...interesting.  How does it compare to the original from DS?  Mdrol is crap...


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## Arnold (Jul 28, 2010)

nni said:


> can't believe you used the name.



it will work well from a marketing stand point, the compound itself is not banned (yet).

also, my first batch is only going to be 1,000 bottles, so if I have to change the name on the second batch it's no biggie.


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## nni (Jul 28, 2010)

SenorBlumpkin said:


> Hmm...interesting.  How does it compare to the original from DS?  Mdrol is crap...



the two you are referring to are the same compound. this version should be weaker.



Prince said:


> it will work well from a marketing stand point, the compound itself is not banned (yet).
> 
> also, my first batch is only going to be 1,000 bottles, so if I have to change the name on the second batch it's no biggie.



i think the name is still trademarked, be careful.


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## gopro (Jul 28, 2010)

A prohomone? Well, I'm out 

Good luck with it bro!


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## Arnold (Jul 29, 2010)

nni said:


> i think the name is still trademarked, be careful.



I gave this a lot of thought and decided to make a last minute change, luckily the labels were set to be printed today and I stopped them, the label name will now read *Super-DMZ Rx*. I don't think it would be an issue since Anabolic Xtreme no longer makes a Superdrol product, but better safe than sorry. 

Thanks for chiming in here though!


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## juggernaut (Jul 29, 2010)

I'll be more than happy to log.


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## Arnold (Jul 29, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> I'll be more than happy to log.



okay, but you cannot be using any gear.


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## juggernaut (Jul 29, 2010)

Prince said:


> okay, but you cannot be using any gear.



whoops


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## SenorBlumpkin (Jul 29, 2010)

Original DS super and Mdrol is not the same product...Mdrol uses a different isomer and has had many "bunk" batches.


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## gopro (Jul 29, 2010)

Prince said:


> it will work well from a marketing stand point, the compound itself is not banned (yet).
> 
> also, my first batch is only going to be 1,000 bottles, so if I have to change the name on the second batch it's no biggie.



By the way Rob...I think it is very cool that you started this little supplement line, even though we both know how hard that is, and you kept it going...and NOW it keeps growing. That is pretty awesome!


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## jbryand101b (Aug 3, 2010)

Prince said:


> we expect to have *Super-DMZ Rx* available in the next 2-3 weeks! (no price has been set yet)
> 
> the compound is: 17beta-hydroxy 2alpha,17, beta-dimethyl 5alpha, -androstan3-on azine


 
nomenclature on label is wrong.

correct nomenclature for dimethazine (aka mebolazine, or roxilon) should be: 17beta-hydroxy 2alpha,*17 alpha*-dimethyl 5alpha, -androstan3-on azine

you cant have a 17b hydroxy position, and a 17beta methyl position.

it's impossible.

and steroids have to have a 17b hydroxy position, which is why the methyl is in the 17alpha position.



would of posted the label, but i dont have enough post. anyhow, this is all iforces fault, they messed it up first, and everyone is following suit.


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## jbryand101b (Aug 3, 2010)

SenorBlumpkin said:


> Hmm...interesting. How does it compare to the original from DS? Mdrol is crap...


 
mdrol was claimed to be a methdrostanolone clone. but it's label claimed it was a b isomer version of methyl drostanolone, making it a different compound all together, and one that doesn't do anything. this was an actual label error. mdrol was probably tainted, but not with a b isomer steroid, but most likely something else. like dhea, as was done before with their m14add.

methyldrostanolone (superdrol) is already methylated masteron, with an additional methyl group added to make make it a di methyl. 2a methylated, and 17a methylated.

dimethazine, (mebolazine, roxilon) is two methyldrostanolone molecules with an added azine (nitrogen) bond.

when this bond is broken in the stomach, you get methyldrostanolone with a nitrogen molecule attached to it, making it a less potent form of superdrol.

less anabolic/androgenic.

210/95 for dimethazine compared to 400/20 for methyldrostanolone.

and this is not a pro hormone, but a steroid, just like superdrol, epistane, halodrol, m14add.


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## GXR64 (Aug 3, 2010)

Looks like a good product, 

JB knows his shit damn, reps brah.


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## jbryand101b (Aug 3, 2010)

thanks bro.

also, I messed up, dimethazine is less anabolic, but more androgenic than superdrol.*


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## Arnold (Aug 4, 2010)

jbryand101b said:


> nomenclature on label is wrong.
> 
> correct nomenclature for dimethazine (aka mebolazine, or roxilon) should be: 17beta-hydroxy 2alpha,*17 alpha*-dimethyl 5alpha, -androstan3-on azine
> 
> ...



thanks for the input, I just listen to my manufacturer's chemist on these things, I will bring this up to him so the next label run can be corrected.


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## Arnold (Aug 9, 2010)

we're hoping to have this in stock next week!!!


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## nova1970sb (Aug 9, 2010)

for someone who doesnt know to much about pro hormones, how does this stack up against 1 andro rx, i took that with good results a few months back.


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## jbryand101b (Aug 9, 2010)

different compounds. 1-andro is a dhea derived 2 step pro hormone. conversion isn't a one way street. and also isn't a guranteed thing.

dimethazine (mebolazine) is an already active oral methylated steroid, and will do what it was designed to do, and possibly more.

caution should be taken when using oral methylated steroids. they can be used safely, but only if used responsibly.


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## nova1970sb (Aug 9, 2010)

jbryand101b said:


> different compounds. 1-andro is a dhea derived 2 step pro hormone. conversion isn't a one way street. and also isn't a guranteed thing.
> 
> dimethazine (mebolazine) is an already active oral methylated steroid, and will do what it was designed to do, and possibly more.
> 
> caution should be taken when using oral methylated steroids. they can be used safely, but only if used responsibly.



as in proper dosage and proper pct?


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## twarrior (Aug 9, 2010)

Prince said:


> we're hoping to have this in stock next week!!!



Has the price point been set for this yet?


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## SenorBlumpkin (Aug 9, 2010)

I'm guessing $43.95


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## jbryand101b (Aug 10, 2010)

nova1970sb said:


> as in proper dosage and proper pct?


 
yep, and also cycle length.

sometimes people get in their head orals can be ran for 12 weeks like injectables.

this is not safe, as well as all data done on oral gains, show they pretty much stop after 6-8 weeks. so it is pointless to continue using them, your just causing more un needed damage to your body.

injectables have long esters, and take time to build up in the blood stream.

orals begin working immediately.

the fact that it takes time to build actual muscle i believe is why people say things like, sd didn't kick in till week 3, or you gotta wait to build up sufficient levels. orals have short half lives. there is no build up in your system. the best you can do is keep levels steady by dosing properly.


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## nova1970sb (Aug 10, 2010)

so an oral like this would probly be only really needed for a one month cycle. what pct do you think would be ok with this. would 6-trione alone be sufficient? or would you have to get into the milk thistle?


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## zombul (Aug 10, 2010)

I will be very interested in seing some of these logs soon.


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## Tim1985 (Aug 10, 2010)

zombul said:


> I will be very interested in seing some of these logs soon.


Same here


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## jbryand101b (Aug 11, 2010)

my experience with I-force's "dymethazine" product wasn't a good one. this is a oral methylated steroid for those of you who dont know. pct should be the same as if you were on a cycle of dbol, or even testosterone.

you wouldn't run just an ai, an milk thistle for a 12 week cycle of test. shut down on compounds like these is severe. they do what they were designed to do.

I feel dimethazine is a compound best stacked with an aromatizable compound, like m14add, 4-dhea, max lmg (these are what are still available). and of course, test would be best if one wanted to go the injectable route.

the compound in my opinion had an more intense effect on my bp, and seemed to have quite a negative impact on my immune system.

but strength gains, and size were great. I feel it would of been much better if I had stacked with something like test.

I am going to be giving this compound another go, but i'll be using it along with max lmg, which is a ph to 13b ethyl nor androstenedione. it is a product called dieselbolan v 2.0. 

it seems to have good reviews, so i'll be seeing for myself how well the aromatization helps with this compound.


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## jbryand101b (Aug 11, 2010)

* I must also note, the side effects I experienced are typical side effects from methylated steroids. side effects will vary from person, to person.

One should familiarize themselves with the pro's and con's of steroids, this way, there is no suprise when they use the compounds.

all anabolic/androgenic steroids are capable of causing androgenic side effects, as well as other side effects seen from changin the hormonal balance of your body. (gyno, mood changes, etc)


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## Arnold (Aug 11, 2010)

SenorBlumpkin said:


> I'm guessing $43.95



$44.99 per bottle, or buy 2 get 1 free, or buy 6 bottles for $160.


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## Arnold (Aug 11, 2010)

*UPDATE:* Superdrol DMZ will be available to purchase this Friday!


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## Arnold (Aug 12, 2010)

*MAY PURCHASE NOW! *

ALL ORDERS WILL SHIP TOMORROW USPS PRIORITY MAIL!

Super-DMZ Rx™ Pro-Hormone (Superdrol Dymethazine)


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## mystictrunks (Aug 12, 2010)

What are the sides of Super DMZ?


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## Arnold (Aug 12, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> What are the sides of Super DMZ?



liver stress, testicular shutdown, lethargy, back pumps, loss of libido, cramping.

milk thistle on cycle is recommended, and PCT is absolutely necessary post cycle.


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## mystictrunks (Aug 12, 2010)

would 60X0 and a test booster be enough for PCT?


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## jbryand101b (Aug 12, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> would 60X0 and a test booster be enough for PCT?


 


jbryand101b said:


> this is a oral methylated steroid for those of you who dont know. pct should be the same as if you were on a cycle of dbol, or even testosterone.
> 
> you wouldn't run just an ai, an milk thistle for a 12 week cycle of test. shut down on compounds like these is severe. they do what they were designed to do.
> 
> I feel dimethazine is a compound best stacked with an aromatizable compound, like m14add, 4-dhea, max lmg (these are what are still available). and of course, test would be best if one wanted to go the injectable route.


 
and i should note. i dont think you (mysticytrunks) or anybody should be using aas or pro hormones until (you) they research more on the subject.


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## mystictrunks (Aug 12, 2010)

I'm researching right now. Asking Questions is part of the research process.


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## mystictrunks (Aug 12, 2010)

What is recommended to take with this for your cholesterol?


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## paperthin (Aug 12, 2010)

just ordered some of this sh** ill let u guys know how it goes


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## Arnold (Aug 12, 2010)

paperthin said:


> just ordered some of this sh** ill let u guys know how it goes



thanks!


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## paperthin (Aug 12, 2010)

prob shoulda read this before i ordered so i could log and not pay


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## paperthin (Aug 12, 2010)

anabolic matrix is some great stuff by the way boys very recomended for PCT


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## jmorrison (Aug 12, 2010)

Prince, I know you said that you dont want any gears involved, but I am getting ready to buy some Dbol for my oral kicker for my next cycle, and I would be happy to use this as a kicker if you want a log of it used like that.


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## flash89912 (Aug 12, 2010)

*Is this the same stuff that was in CEL's DZine?*

Was this the same stuff that was in CEL's DZine? Chemical formula on label looks slightly different.


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## jbryand101b (Aug 12, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> I'm researching right now. Asking Questions is part of the research process.


 
no it isn't. you ask questions about information you already know. the answers to all the questions you have can be answered by using google, or another search feature.

Also by purchasing a copy of william lewellyns anabolics 9th edition, & seth roberts anabolic pharmacology.

there is a wealth of knowledge easily accesable at your fingertips. I have been able to learn without asking questions, so I know you can too my friend.

Im not saying dont ask questions, but learn about these products before you ask these questions. use the questions to clarify what you already know. not to be spoon fed information like a child.


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## jbryand101b (Aug 12, 2010)

flash89912 said:


> Was this the same stuff that was in CEL's DZine? Chemical formula on label looks slightly different.


 
same compound. "dimethazine" aka "mebolazine" (brand name roxilon)


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## jbryand101b (Aug 12, 2010)

Prince*

I noticed you guys fixed the nomenclature. This is very respectable my friend. You have earned a Loyal customer.

I havn't ever used any iron mag products, but that move alone tells me you guys are respectable.


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## mystictrunks (Aug 12, 2010)

jbryand101b said:


> no it isn't. you ask questions about information you already know. the answers to all the questions you have can be answered by using google, or another search feature.
> 
> Also by purchasing a copy of william lewellyns anabolics 9th edition, & seth roberts anabolic pharmacology.
> 
> ...


 Sorry, but I have more important things to do with my time than read books about roids. And why would I ask questions if I already know about it? That is the definition of counterintuitive. And who are you to tell me what I can post on an open forum? Thank you for the patronization though. You're a class act.


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## jmorrison (Aug 12, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> Sorry, but I have more important things to do with my time than read books about roids.




Wow, really?  So you are willing to inject yourself and/or orally injest powerful chemical compounds based on the opinions of some people that you will never meet that you know from an internet board, but are unwilling to do some actual research on the possible side effects, dosages, clinical research and the way they work from reputable sources such as Pubmed, research papers, clinical studies etc etc.....

Thats absolutely amazing.  Do you think that you are playing with creatine here?  Do you realize that a 4 week cycle of Mdrol which I bought over the counter on a bodybuilding supplement website caused me to have a limp dick for almost a month, severe testicular shutdown, a slight case of gyno and shut me down hard?  And that was after actually studying, preparing myself for the cycle, proper PCT, etc.

You are a braver man than me.  Or stupid.  I dont know which.

P.S.  I am not saying that Princes product will do the above to you, I am simply stating that this isnt the latest weight gain powder from GNC.  You are talking about extremely potent hormones that you may very well have lasting lifetime repercussions from using.  A little knowledge will go a long way to helping you out in your decision making bro.  You would do better to listen and learn than to get pissy with someone that was trying to help you.


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## Curt James (Aug 13, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> limp dick for almost a month, severe testicular shutdown, a slight case of gyno and shut me down hard?  And that was after actually studying, preparing myself for the cycle, proper PCT, etc.



You're quite the salesman there.

(throws all supplements in trash immediately)

lol


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## jbryand101b (Aug 13, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> Sorry, but I have more important things to do with my time than read books about roids. And why would I ask questions if I already know about it? That is the definition of counterintuitive. And who are you to tell me what I can post on an open forum? Thank you for the patronization though. You're a class act.


 
I dont tell anybody what they should do. everyone here is an adult (kind of).
All I can do is make suggestions about what I think is best.

I and others have no problem helping people. It is just aggravating, and dissapointing though when I see people wanting to use anabolic/androgenic hormones, but not do any kind of researching on the subject (from real credible sources, not Jo Daddy on the internet)
It's plain stupid. And makes me wonder if that person is trying to become a statistic. 
I am not an expert. there are only a handful of experts on the subject. Openly stating you do not wish to read books to learn about the hormones you are wanting to take, is just, well, I cant believe someone would do that. 
Good luck with whatever you decide to do with you health. I hope you wise up, and open a book or two my friend.


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## Curt James (Aug 13, 2010)

^^^^But you don't think it's unreasonable to purchase a bottle of this product and follow the directions on the bottle, though, right?

I'm interested in posting a daily journal and am currently cracking those aforementioned (online) books for more information on PCT protocols.

What I have so far is the basic info:


Begin PCT 24 hours after last administration.
Anabolic-Matrix Rx stacked with Formadrol Extreme
1500mg per day Milk Thistle during and after cycle
Waiting for an e-mail for some clarification on liquid clomid.

Interesting reading what you've contributed to this thread. Thank you.


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## mystictrunks (Aug 13, 2010)

I didn't say I wouldn't/didn't research. I have been researching this for quite a while now. I use the internet and asking questions on several different forums to do it though, not a book ,(seeing as a book is mostly just one persons point of view and experiences).


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## Diablo1990 (Aug 13, 2010)

I would start a log for a bottle = D.  I have not used any supplements yet this time lifting again.  I have not even had any whey protein.  I just drink a lot of milk and eat eggs, meat, pasta, etc.  It's sad that all the sudden im lactose intolerant.  I have been using these pills that help with it and have not had a problem.  It sucks to have to take a pill to drink milk .


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## mystictrunks (Aug 13, 2010)

Diablo1990 said:


> I would start a log for a bottle = D. I have not used any supplements yet this time lifting again. I have not even had any whey protein. I just drink a lot of milk and eat eggs, meat, pasta, etc. It's sad that all the sudden im lactose intolerant. I have been using these pills that help with it and have not had a problem. It sucks to have to take a pill to drink milk .


 You could just get lactaid milk.


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## Diablo1990 (Aug 13, 2010)

That works to but I think it's more expensive in the long run.  The lactaid milk I had for awhile has about 11g of protein per serving.


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## SenorBlumpkin (Aug 13, 2010)

Diablo1990 said:


> That works to but I think it's more expensive in the long run.  The lactaid milk I had for awhile has about 11g of protein per serving.




Stick to supplements like Pink Magic...you are still a young mF


GICH!!


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## boomstick9577 (Aug 13, 2010)

Was looking for a good oral to jump start my test e!!!  someone mentioned this super-DMZ...  idk i was thinking M-Drol but i have been hearing alot about this!!!


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## dave 236 (Aug 13, 2010)

Prince said:


> okay, but you cannot be using any gear.


Not even hrt gear?


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## Arnold (Aug 13, 2010)

dave 236 said:


> Not even hrt gear?



not if you want to be a product tester/logger.


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## jbryand101b (Aug 13, 2010)

Curt James said:


> ^^^^But you don't think it's unreasonable to purchase a bottle of this product and follow the directions on the bottle, though, right?
> 
> I'm interested in posting a daily journal and am currently cracking those aforementioned (online) books for more information on PCT protocols.
> 
> ...


 
I havn't read the label of this particular product. 

all you need is the clomid for your pct, and you look gtg.

run the clomid at 100mg e/d the first week with the forma/a-mrx

then drop the clomid to 50mg maintenance dosage for the next 3 weeks.

I've yet to run formastane yet, so far 6-bromo is my ai of choice during pct. but I plan on giving it a try soon.

I would say pct is just as important as the cycle itself, maybe even more important.


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## GXR64 (Aug 13, 2010)

100mg ed is to much imo, still give you some sides that suck. 50mg ed for 3-4 weeks will be good. front loading is a waste.


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## jmorrison (Aug 13, 2010)

Curt James said:


> ^^^^But you don't think it's unreasonable to purchase a bottle of this product and follow the directions on the bottle, though, right?



To be honest Curt, I dont think anyone can answer that but yourself.  From a safety standpoint in regards to dosage, sure it is reasonable.  I would imagine that the dosages listed are in safe amounts.  

But as far as sides, your level of training, diet, liver values etc etc etc, these are all things that a supplement company cannot answer for you, and with a pro-hormone, you need to ask yourself the same questions that you would ask yourself before a cycle, because that is what you are doing.

I have no doubt in my mind that this will be a great product, and the Mdrol I took worked, so I don't want it to sound like I am trashing it, it was just harsh.  I would expect very good results from this, but on the same token, also expect very real side effects.  They go hand in hand.  This is certainly not a creatine or whey powder or multivitamin that you can take haphazardly, or not go into with a plan.  You will need to follow a good solid diet regimen, make sure you have your PCT well mapped out, good training, enough calories/protein to make it work, and a strict dosage schedule.

TLDR:  Yeah man, you are an intelligent guy, and know your body, so if you feel like you are ready, do some research on your PCT and dosage and give it a run.  I would bet you get outstanding results and would be really excited to see a log by you.


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## mystictrunks (Aug 13, 2010)

jbryand101b said:


> I havn't read the label of this particular product.
> 
> all you need is the clomid for your pct, and you look gtg.
> 
> ...


 I don't understand... If you need to take something like Clomid,(as opposed to Anabolic Matrix RX and Formadrol Extreme ) Why isn't that what is recommended on the label?


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## jmorrison (Aug 13, 2010)

Because Clomid is not altogether legal for purchase except for research purposes.


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## Curt James (Aug 13, 2010)

^heh I learned that factoid courtesy of my recent e-mail reply from the one company.

"Our products are for research purposes only *and not for human consumption.*"


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## mystictrunks (Aug 14, 2010)

So... what happens if I take what _is_ for human consumption and recommended( Anabolic RX and Formadrol)?


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## jmorrison (Aug 14, 2010)

That may be a question better asked in the Anabolic section bro.  Sorry, I just dont have any experience or knowledge in regards to those.  Hopefully someone can chime in for you.

FYI you can pick up Clomid through board sponsors cheap and easy.  I use CEM myself, but I'm sure you could go with just about any of them.


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## jbryand101b (Aug 15, 2010)

"Let's also start by saying that you don't have to run post cycle therapy.........you also don't have to wipe your ass after taking a dump: it's just a really really good idea to do these things" -quote from *"stupid peoples guide to post cycle therapy"* 

I have answered how you should go about proper pct after a cycle of steroids, twice mystic.

clomid is available by prescription only. just like injectable testosterone.

can you pharma grade clomid/nolvadex suitable for human use on the black market? yes. I recently made the switch from pharma grade serms to research chems.

i cant tell the difference besides taste.

I would never recomend anyone to run an oral methylated steroid cycle without a serm included in their pct, except for compounds such as tbol, anavar, or halodrol.

but even these can be ran high enough to seriously effect hpta function.

can you recover with a just good enough otc pct program? yes. you can also recover with nothing at all. your body will return to normal, eventually (hopefully)

the purpose of post cycle therapy is to keep the hard earned gains, after you cease using a highly anabolic/androgenic compound. and quickly restore the natural balance of your bodies homeostasis. 

the faster you do this, the more chance you have of keeping gains, as well as continue to make them. not to mention, the sooner you can go back on as well.

pct is going to be an individualized thing for each person. what works for me, may not work for you.
you have to pretty much experiment until you find what is best for you and your body.

in fact, pct is such a detailed subject, it is an entirely different set of skills to learn about.

here are some key words to google that will give you a much better understanding.

Post cycle therapy

hcg

serms

clomid

nolvadex

otc pct

these should be good starting points to get you set up in the direction, to avoid seriously messing yourself up, as well as keep the gains you worked to hard for, as well as put your body through so much crap to get.

jbryan.

William Llewellyn's "Anabolics 9th edition" aka Anabolics 09. 
this is like the bible for aas, again, I stronly recomend you (and anyone else wanting to use anabolic/androgenic compounds) purchase a copy.

info on bill.
William Llewellyn is a world-renowned foremost authority on anabolic substances and its effects on muscular performance. An accomplished research scientist, author, publisher, inventor, columnist, and company CEO in the field of sports nutrition and anabolic substances, Llewellyn has been featured in ESPN Magazine, Washington Post, Fox News Channel, ESPN Television, NPR News, ESPN Radio and other national and regional TV / Radio news programs.
In addition to writing the Anabolics books, Llewellyn also publishes Body of Science Magazine, a quarterly publication dedicated to the "understanding of sports enhancement." He writes a monthly column for Muscular Development, and has written numerous articles for other bodybuilding publications including Ironman Magazine, Exercise for Men Only, and Natural Muscle.
During his fifteen years of anabolic research, Llewellyn has made several important scientific discoveries. His latest discovery of arachidonic acid has been patented for its anabolic properties and its "use as a method of increasing skeletal muscle mass."​


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## mystictrunks (Aug 15, 2010)

> I would never recomend anyone to run an oral methylated steroid cycle without a serm included in their pct, except for compounds such as tbol, anavar, or halodrol.


Formadrol extreme does have a SERM in it..


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## jbryand101b (Aug 15, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> Formadrol extreme does have a SERM in it..


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## mystictrunks (Aug 15, 2010)

jbryand101b said:


>


 What you don't beleive me? It really does.


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## jbryand101b (Aug 15, 2010)

no it doesnt.


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## mystictrunks (Aug 15, 2010)

Well it says that it does on the bottle... I guess they could be lying though.


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## Curt James (Aug 15, 2010)

^I'm going to guess that "Sodium caprylate,ellagic acid (highly standardized),ginger (highly standardized),quercetin,luteolin,piperine) 520 mg" is probably *not *the same as an actual SERM (Selective Estrogen-Receptor Modulator).

See also *Selective estrogen receptor modulator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*


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## whitebull (Aug 30, 2010)

Prince said:


> liver stress, testicular shutdown, lethargy, back pumps, loss of libido, cramping.
> 
> milk thistle on cycle is recommended, and PCT is absolutely necessary post cycle.



What are back pumps?


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## whitebull (Aug 30, 2010)

jbryand101b said:


> I dont tell anybody what they should do. everyone here is an adult (kind of).
> All I can do is make suggestions about what I think is best.
> 
> I and others have no problem helping people. It is just aggravating, and dissapointing though when I see people wanting to use anabolic/androgenic hormones, but not do any kind of researching on the subject (from real credible sources, not Jo Daddy on the internet)
> ...



What is the best book and internet resources to research this in your opinion please? I saw the two you already mentioned. Are either one of them adequate or is one better than the other.


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## whitebull (Aug 30, 2010)

jbryand101b said:


> I havn't read the label of this particular product.
> 
> all you need is the clomid for your pct, and you look gtg.
> 
> ...



How about tamoxifen 20mg x30 days?


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## jmorrison (Aug 30, 2010)

whitebull said:


> What are back pumps?



Severe cramping/pooling of blood and fluid in your lower back.  Very very uncomfortable.  Not dangerous or anything (I dont think) but it can get pretty painful.


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