# Isolate Chest



## jtom (Apr 11, 2010)

I have been lifting for years now.  I am happy with my bis,tris, shoulder and back but my chest just does not seem to develop much.  I definetly have muscle there but it is not like the rest of my upper body.  I believe my issues are that I am using my arms/shoulders for my workouts and not using my chest as much as I should.  I have been trying to isolate my chest more and have been somewhat successful but still no results.  

I was just wondering if you guys had any suggestions for isolating the chest.  I have done most exercises and am really looking for something totally new and possibly unorthodox.

Thanks!


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## Gazhole (Apr 11, 2010)

Whats your current exercise program? Not just for chest, the whole thing?


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## jtom (Apr 11, 2010)

I currently am trying to work my chest from different angles. I usually do barbell presses (incline-3 sets, decline-2 sets, flat- 3 sets), I also do dips leaning forward (3 sets). The last few weeks I have also been doing wide grip barbell decline benches. I think I might be not properly contracting my chest muscles and am putting most of the pressure on my arms. I also do alot of abdominal workouts. I have increased my ab mass alot in the last few months but my chest still stays the same.  I run almost everday.

I am not currently doing much with flyes. I was planning on doing some flyes tonight. I was also looking into doing some pushups. I guess I am pretty much tired of doing similar workouts and wanted to do something that was new to me.


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## pitt (Apr 11, 2010)

Flyes,bench press,dips press ups keep to this and see the change.. Works for me jtom..


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## diablomex (Apr 11, 2010)

arch your back a bit,when you bench press.and concentrate on your form not the wieght.when you  push the wieght up,squeeze.that might help or i hope its the answer to your problem.


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## MeatZatk (Apr 11, 2010)

While benching, try to keep your shoulders slightly back.  I was having issues building my chest for the longest time until I read an article about how a lot of people tend to round their back at the top of their press.  Now I always focus on keeping my chest out in front throughout the entire lift.


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## Gazhole (Apr 11, 2010)

I would say you're probably doing too much for chest. Adding volume is not necessarily the way to go, and may make things worse.

If your body has adapted, its time to do something NEW, not do MORE of the same stuff that isn't working.

Look at your training - look how you can change the intensity, rep range, how your training is split up, etc etc. If you need some ideas i wrote a few articles on periodization on my website, and Cowpimp's stickies in the training section here are awesome.


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## jtom (Apr 11, 2010)

Well I do admit in terms of my reps I have been doing the same thing for at least a year now.  I typically do anywhere from 8-12 reps.  Before that I have done 4-6 reps.  Maybe I should go for lighter weights with higher reps?

Its just very frustrating as I have been wanting a more complete chest for years now and I cant get it.  Maybe I will decrease the weight and concentrate on squeezing the chest.  I feel that I might have been lifting to much weight and this has meant that I have to put more of the weight on my arms.


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## FMJ (Apr 11, 2010)

jtom said:


> Well I do admit in terms of my reps I have been doing the same thing for at least a year now.


 
I think you just answered your own question. You've been doing the same chest movements, same rep range, etc. for a year. That's your issue right there. Adaptation. Gaz's periodization articles will get you out of this rut for sure.


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## ectomorph141 (Apr 12, 2010)

jtom said:


> I am not currently doing much with flyes. I was planning on doing some flyes tonight. I was also looking into doing some pushups. I guess I am pretty much tired of doing similar workouts and wanted to do something that was new to me.


Get the flyes in there for sure.  Just make sure you use weight you can control and keep good form.  Dont be afraid to lower the weight if it doesnt feel right to you.   When you pull the flyes to the top squeeze your chest muscles and concentrate on your chest the entire time.  If you feel you are using your arms too much then lower the weight and focus on the chest.

Also like you said, mix up your routine.  You definetly do not want to do the exact same thing for a year straight. As an example I switch up my chest tricep day once in a while and do triceps first.  Or even do flyes first then bench.  Or Dips first, then flyes, then bench. Or Bench, dips, then flyes.   Do something for a couple weeks then mix it up.  Yes it might mean lowering your bench weight that you are used to but its not all about the weight, its about working the muscle.   Its always better to lower the weight for better form.    I also found that a wide grip bench press works my chest much better than a regular grip.  But to do this I had to use lighter weight than normal.  Just experiment until you find what works.


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## Hoglander (Apr 12, 2010)

Just do some weighted dips after some serious decline flys. 

Pre-exhaust


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## Merkaba (Apr 12, 2010)

And let me guess, you don't track your intake because that's secondary when it comes to actually building and shaping mass? And if you're like most people you're doing a ton of shoulder work through the week, with "shoulder day" and "arm day" not thinking this could be affecting your chest performance? And if you're like most people, you don't understand the role of the back when working the chest, especially on Bench movements?


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## sgfit (Apr 16, 2010)

Jtom, make sure your elbows are pointing straight out when doing bench. You might be doing it already, but a good way to help this is to touch the bar on the upper chest, even when doing flat bench, not the nipple line...yes, I said nipple. As you know, the closer the elbows are to the body, the more tricep you are using.

Also, throw some compound sets in to mix it up. After every set of bench, without rest, jump right into some pushups, again, with elbows flared completely out and preferrablly with some push up bars or on some 25 lb plates. The deeper the stretch, the more compromised the chest muscle is, the harder the chest has to work.


Get it!


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## Phineas (Apr 16, 2010)

Merkaba said:


> And let me guess, you don't track your intake because that's secondary when it comes to actually building and shaping mass? And if you're like most people you're doing a ton of shoulder work through the week, with "shoulder day" and "arm day" not thinking this could be affecting your chest performance? And if you're like most people, you don't understand the role of the back when working the chest, especially on Bench movements?



He's right.

Increase your row and you'll increase your bench.


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## Hubauer (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm with Hoglander, try some pre-exhaust if you need something completely different. I have done flat DB flyes (one set to failure) followed by incline bench press (one set to failure). That way you can burn out your chest instead of the triceps.


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## jtom (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies. I have been heavily reducing the weight this past week to work more on my form. I believe with the weight I was lifting, I had to put more pressure on my shoulders. I have been benching and I had a question: where should the bar come down to?- your nipple or slightly above? I have seen both here and elsewhere. I have been benching with the bar coming down to my nipple area and I have been working my chest much better- I will try doing it higher up and see how that feels. I think my issue was that I had the bar coming down to high in my chest and put most of the weight on my shoulders. I do arch my back correctly though.

I also had a question about your shoulders while benching: I have always been told to have your elbows slightly angled and not straight. Not sure which is the right way.

Lastly, for decline bench is it really helpful?  I have read many times that doing a flat bench will work your pecs sufficiently and doing declines is not required.  

Thanks!


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## jtom (Apr 20, 2010)

Merkaba said:


> And let me guess, you don't track your intake because that's secondary when it comes to actually building and shaping mass? And if you're like most people you're doing a ton of shoulder work through the week, with "shoulder day" and "arm day" not thinking this could be affecting your chest performance? And if you're like most people, you don't understand the role of the back when working the chest, especially on Bench movements?


 
I admit I do not track my intake but I make sure I dont eat poorly.  I do arch my back properly when benching.  

If you have a target daily intake for me I would appreciate it.  I weighed myself at the gym yesterday and I was 175 pounds and im 5'11''.  

Thanks!


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## Phineas (Apr 20, 2010)

jtom said:


> I admit I do not track my intake but I make sure I dont eat poorly.  I do arch my back properly when benching.
> 
> If you have a target daily intake for me I would appreciate it.  I weighed myself at the gym yesterday and I was 175 pounds and im 5'11''.
> 
> Thanks!



Umm, you shouldn't be arching your back on bench if balanced strength/hypertrophy is your goal. That's more of a sport-specific/power lifting technique to shift the center of gravity and give you more leverage on the concentric. Basically, it makes the lift easier for you. 

If you really want to "isolate" the chest you have to do pec isolation movements. However, if what you mean is busting through plateaus on chest-dominant lifts then you just need to revamp your stale training.

I just read an amazing article on Gaz's site about uping a stagnant bench. His site is getlifting.info. Check it out.

I have one more new program before I start cutting. This program will be for all of May, and for my horizontal push lift I'm going to return to the barbell after about 4 months away from it and give a crack at Dead Press. I got this one from Gaz's article. I had seen them before in books referred to as Rack Lockouts but there was no explanation of the specific purpose of it. It's basically the box squat or rack pull of bench press (sort of..). You set the safety bars/pins in a squat rack to right where the BB would end on the bottom of your eccentric. So, you unrack the BB, perform the eccentric, and when it reaches the safety bars you let it rest while still maintaining muscular tension for about 1-2 seconds and then explode from that position back to the top of the concentric. That's one rep. This is intended to strengthen the beginning phase of your bench concentric, which has been my weak point in bench for over a year.

That's just one example. He listed a number of creative ways to train your bench. I've wanted to try floor press for a long time, too, but the cages at my gym don't have safety bar settings low enough to do it  

It might not even be your pecs that are the weak point. Try and assess exactly what part of your chest lifts is lagging, and then you can find an exercises that targets that.


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## HialeahChico305 (Apr 20, 2010)

jtom said:


> Thanks for all the replies. I have been heavily reducing the weight this past week to work more on my form. I believe with the weight I was lifting, I had to put more pressure on my shoulders. I have been benching and I had a question: where should the bar come down to?- your nipple or slightly above? I have seen both here and elsewhere. I have been benching with the bar coming down to my nipple area and I have been working my chest much better- I will try doing it higher up and see how that feels. I think my issue was that I had the bar coming down to high in my chest and put most of the weight on my shoulders. I do arch my back correctly though.
> 
> I also had a question about your shoulders while benching: I have always been told to have your elbows slightly angled and not straight. Not sure which is the right way.
> 
> ...




How about you drop the bar and start doing some serious dumbbell press with good form?  dumbbells don't bite you know


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## Gazhole (Apr 20, 2010)

Phineas said:


> I just read an amazing article on Gaz's site about uping a stagnant bench. His site is getlifting.info. Check it out.



Thanks dude, glad you liked it!

Dead Press is so hard, you'll love them, lol.

Were the descriptions of the exercises clear enough btw? I was unsure whether to take some photos? I may still do that.


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## jtom (Apr 21, 2010)

HialeahChico305 said:


> How about you drop the bar and start doing some serious dumbbell press with good form? dumbbells don't bite you know


 
Well actually I had been doing dumbbells for several months now and I just went back to doing barbbells this week.


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## CowPimp (Apr 21, 2010)

The first thing I always address in such situations are those of perception.  You should get some kind of 3rd party assessment to see if your perceived body image is reliable.  As we all know, our perceptions are notoriously unreliable in a lot of situations.

Next thing to address is technique.  Even with shitty programs, most people are providing their chest with enough stimulus to produce growth on a satisfactory scale, or maybe even in greater proportion than the rest of their body.  Sometimes you might be doing something with your technique that doesn't allow for optimal recruitment patterns, such as excessive protraction of your scapula during the press.  It's hard for me to say which ones necessarily reduce chest involvement (In some cases it is more reasonable to speculate on the results), but cleaning up your form is always a good thing even if it doesn't solve this problem.

Antagonist muscle balance is also something to consider.  If you have compromised the amount of free space surrounding your joint capsule, then perhaps your nervous system is hesitant to allow for growth that would exacerbate reduce this noxious stimuli.  The bottom line in this case is to ensure you are doing lots of rowing too.

Beyond that, perhaps faulty programming is to blame.  However, this seems somewhat less likely since you are seeing the desired development in the rest of your body.  Nonetheless, it is still a possibility since each muscle has a somewhat unique fiber composition.  If all these things are addressed and you don't see improvement, then perhaps more isolation work would be of use to you.


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## Phineas (Apr 21, 2010)

Gazhole said:


> Thanks dude, glad you liked it!
> 
> Dead Press is so hard, you'll love them, lol.
> 
> Were the descriptions of the exercises clear enough btw? I was unsure whether to take some photos? I may still do that.



I found the descriptions to be clear. Still, some pictures would probably be a good idea for less experienced lifters who are unfamiliar with obscure lifts that are intended for training certain phases of movements -- as opposed to just the muscles themselves.

So, just to clarify -- when pushing off the rack on the bottom of the concentric should I be exploding as in box squats or maintaining control as if a traditional bench?


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## jtom (Apr 22, 2010)

Are there any other exercises I am leaving out? I am 100% that my chest is lagging behind. It annoys me because I have always had large biceps and have significantly increased the mass of my tris/abs/shoulders in the last six months. It just appears while I am trying to isolate my chest I am still putting pressure on my arms to do the work. Is there any other exercises I am missing. I just believe it is difficult to totally isolate my chest- for instance I was doing flyes on a machine and lowered the weight significantly to make sure I squeezed my chest very well. After I do the exercise, my chest if hurting but my biceps are hurting much more. I have watched several videos online about correct form and I am doing it correctly. Very frustrating!

I guess my desire is to leave the gym knowing I destroyed my chest.


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## Phineas (Apr 22, 2010)

jtom said:


> Are there any other exercises I am leaving out? I am 100% that my chest is lagging behind. It annoys me because I have always had large biceps and have significantly increased the mass of my tris/abs/shoulders in the last six months. It just appears while I am trying to isolate my chest I am still putting pressure on my arms to do the work. Is there any other exercises I am missing. I just believe it is difficult to totally isolate my chest- for instance I was doing flyes on a machine and lowered the weight significantly to make sure I squeezed my chest very well. After I do the exercise, my chest if hurting but my biceps are hurting much more. I have watched several videos online about correct form and I am doing it correctly. Very frustrating!
> 
> I guess my desire is to leave the gym knowing I destroyed my chest.



You wouldn't want to "destroy" your chest. A lot of guys follow this false notion that for a muscle to grow it must be absolutely be gym raped to the point of failed sets. 

I perform only one chest-dominant lift three times a week and my chest has been growing just fine. What's more important than perform set after set is ensuring (if hypertrophy is your goal) you're controlling the weight; what I mean is, you're not trying to just lift the DB of BB up..you need to focus on what muscles are working and how hard each one should be working. I think a lot of guys who simply power through their sets tend to overuse their triceps on the lift because they're pushing primarily with their arms. However, what you need to remember with compounds like bench is that your arms, while assisting with the applicable muscles, is really just the medium by which the weight is moved. Your pecs are the primary muscle in the movement, and you need to focus on that.

"Feeling" your pecs doesn't mean squeezing them on the top of the concentric. All that might do is give you a bit of an extra pump (which is meaningless, anyway...just fun). "Feeling" your pecs would involve focussing on them and what they in conjunction with their assisting muscles are doing.

For instance, for my first year and about two months of lifting I couldn't feel deadlifts in my legs; it felt like a pure back exercise (though it does work the back through isometric tension, it's really a hamstring/glute-dominant lift (just to bring up because I'm so sick of people putting in their back work)). I was also having similar problems with other lifts; I just didn't understand or appreciate that the body's muscles work as a system to control objects and move them in particular planes (e.g. vertical push, etc). What helped me the most was this book I read on bodybuilding psychology. It taught much about what I said before with focussing on the muscles and what they're doing. 

It's like what Arnold talked about in Pumping Iron in the famous concentration curl scene ("blood rushing..."). I focussed on my back side as a pulley system, from the calves all the way up to my upper traps. From the bottom of my deadlift concentric I visualized my muscles as a long, tight rope running up my hamstrings from my ankles and up and around my back and to the BB itself. When I began to lift I imagined little workers pulling the ropes near my calves and tightening all the involved muscles to pull the rope downward, lifting my torso upright as the BB now took off from the ground. I also visualized my heart pumping oxygen rich blood to my muscles to support the high-intensity work to ensure that the rope stayed tight and strong.

As it just so happened, I finally fixed by rounded back issues, I moved my deadlift up for 10 reps by over 30 lbs, and after my 3 sets were over my back felt worked but not sore or (most importantly) in pain and my hamstrings and glutes were sore and pumped hard!

Visualization and focus does wonders. If you understand exactly what's going on when you perform a lift it will help you control your muscles and train them exactly as you want to. 

Your mind can make things happen.


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## FMJ (Apr 22, 2010)

That was a good post Phineas. The deadlift is a notoriously difficult exercise to perform properly. I still have issues getting it into my hams as much as I'd like. My lower back does suffer from misallocation of focus. It's a work in progress but it takes time to get it right, at least for me. 

I might pick up that book you mentioned. Who authored it?


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## Phineas (Apr 22, 2010)

FMJ said:


> That was a good post Phineas. The deadlift is a notoriously difficult exercise to perform properly. I still have issues getting it into my hams as much as I'd like. My lower back does suffer from misallocation of focus. It's a work in progress but it takes time to get it right, at least for me.
> 
> I might pick up that book you mentioned. Who authored it?



I can't remember the author's name, but the title is Mind Pump (hilarious, eh?)

Just a warning, it's from the 80s I think, so some of the information is outdated. Though, it's only the training examples he uses that are wrong. For instance, I remember a part where he says "for instance, when leaning out you'd likely want to focus on high reps with a light weight to 'cut up'". 

There's a bit of that crap to skim through, but that's a tiny here and there chunk of the book. It's centered on psychology, and everything taugh about that is still applicable today. In fact, I think it's a testament to the classic bodybuilding mindset that, in my opinion, is lost today in many IFBB pros and amateur lifters alike.


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## Gazhole (Apr 22, 2010)

Phineas said:


> I found the descriptions to be clear. Still, some pictures would probably be a good idea for less experienced lifters who are unfamiliar with obscure lifts that are intended for training certain phases of movements -- as opposed to just the muscles themselves.
> 
> So, just to clarify -- when pushing off the rack on the bottom of the concentric should I be exploding as in box squats or maintaining control as if a traditional bench?



I usually do them slow and controlled, simply because i found them too difficult to get explosive with them, haha.


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## jtom (Apr 22, 2010)

I meant that I never leave the gym feeling I properly worked my chest. What do you mean by lifting with your pecs? I mean I guess I just dont see how to lift a bar without primarily using my arms and using my chest. Maybe I have been approaching this all wrong.

I guess to me it appears that there is no exercise that works my chest without primarily working my arms.  For instance, I can easily work my biceps and abs very easily and have seen results.


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## Phineas (Apr 22, 2010)

jtom said:


> I meant that I never leave the gym feeling I properly worked my chest. What do you mean by lifting with your pecs? I mean I guess I just dont see how to lift a bar without primarily using my arms and using my chest. Maybe I have been approaching this all wrong.
> 
> I guess to me it appears that there is no exercise that works my chest without primarily working my arms.  For instance, I can easily work my biceps and abs very easily and have seen results.



I wouldn't suggest training like this, but just for experiment sake it's fine: trying releasing most of the tension of your grip of the DBs or BBs (if you can balance them) so they're just resting on your palms...then press the weight. Your arms will be much less tensed and you'll feel your pecs pushing more.


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## jtom (Apr 22, 2010)

Thanks alot, I will try that over the weekend.


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## Tomi18 (Jun 1, 2010)

Try to work your chest with dumbbells and concentrate on mind-muscle conection.


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## MDR (Jun 1, 2010)

You asked about decline bench.  My personal opinion is that decline movements for the chest are not very effective.  Looks like you got a lot of good advice here; changing things periodically is crucial to optimal development.  Good luck!


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