# Newbie requires advice please



## joboco (Jul 9, 2010)

Not sure if I have posted in the correct section, so here goes.

My diet & routine is as follows, comments please.

Monday.
Bench press = 5x1-5x56k
Incline bench press = 5x1-5x40k
Flat dumbell flyers = 5x1-5x24k
Pull ups body only = 5x1-5x240lb
Barbell curls = 5x1-5x38k
Dumbell curls = 5x1-5x20k

Tuesday.
Lat pull down = 5x1-5x70k
Bent over barbell rows = 5x1-5x80k
Dumbell rowing = 5x1-5x38k
Dead lift = 5x1-5x98k
Close grip bench press = 5x1-5x50k
Tricep extension = 5x1-5x24k
Tricep cable pull down = 5x1-5x34k

Thursday.
Seated dumbell press = 5x1-5x18k
Dumbell side laterals = 5x1-5x20k
Bent over laterals = 5x1-5x20k
Front laterals = 5x1-5x20k
Upright rowing = 5x1-5x46k
Barbell shrugs = 5x1-5x110k

Friday.
Squats = 5x1-5x95k
Leg extesions = 5x1-5x66k
Leg curls = 5x1-5x38k
Seated calfe raisers = 5x1-5x65k

Daily suppliments.
zinc = 40mg
multi vits
dhea = 100mg
creatine = 5mg
cod liver oil = 1000mg
omega 3 = 1000mg
calcium = 1000mg
magnesium = 500mg
vitamin C = 2000mg
clucosamine = 1000mg

Daily food:
meal 1 = 50g whey, 35g oats, 1 banana, 8-10am
meal 2 = 100g chicken, onion, garlic, mushrooms, cooked in olive oil + 50g brown rice. 12 - 1 pm.
meal 3 = 1 apple, 30g raisins, handfull mixed nuts, 1/3 tub low fat yogurt. 3- 3.30 pm.
meal 4 = 4 large boiled eggs or 1 tin tuna with salad + 2 slices of multi grain bread.
meal 5 = Training days only, 50g whey + 40g oats, after training.
meal 6 = 175g low fat cheese, 30g raisins, handfull mixed nuts.

I am 58 years young, 6ft 5in tall, 240lb, body fat. I guess is about 25%.
I have been lifting since December 2009, but missed a few weeks here and there.
Currently training 3 weeks, then 1 week off, at home with free weights and a safety cage that includes a pully system. 
Sleeping from midnight til 8 am have 1st meal then back to bed till 11.30am. Training from 7pm to 8pm.
Only measured my biceps which have increased 1.5in.


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## WeightGainNet (Jul 9, 2010)

You should get protein at every meal. Meals 3 and 6 should have more protein. Especially meal 6 right before bed. Or by low fat cheese do you mean cottage cheese?


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## joboco (Jul 9, 2010)

WeightGainNet said:


> You should get protein at every meal. Meals 3 and 6 should have more protein. Especially meal 6 right before bed. Or by low fat cheese do you mean cottage cheese?


 
Thanks for that. Yes that should say low fat cottage cheese.
Any suggestions for meal 3 would be appreciated.


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## WeightGainNet (Jul 9, 2010)

Are you cutting? Replace that yogurt with cottage cheese and slice up the apples and mix it in with the cottage cheese. Just had that meal earlier today.


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## ceazur (Jul 9, 2010)

WeightGainNet said:


> *Are you cutting?*




Yeah, tell us your goals first.


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## joboco (Jul 9, 2010)

Sorry, cant you just tell I'm new.
I just want to build more muscle, but try not to get too fat, I'm already a 43in waist


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## Phineas (Jul 9, 2010)

joboco said:


> meal 1 = 50g whey, 35g oats, 1 banana, 8-10am
> meal 2 = 100g chicken, onion, garlic, mushrooms, cooked in olive oil + 50g brown rice. 12 - 1 pm.
> meal 3 = 1 apple, 30g raisins, handfull mixed nuts, 1/3 tub low fat yogurt. 3- 3.30 pm.
> meal 4 = 4 large boiled eggs or 1 tin tuna with salad + 2 slices of multi grain bread.
> ...



How much protein are you consuming a day? I don't see too many plentiful whole protein sources. 100g chicken (approx 20g) + 1 tin tuna (approx 27g) + 4 eggs (approx 24g -- assuming they're large eggs) = 71g.

Then you have 75g oats, which might add 12g or so. Plus, nuts, etc. Still, you want to consume primarily whole foods for protein. Meat and dairy are ideal sources, as they have much higher bioavailability compared to grains, nuts, and legumes.

Also, I'm not sure how much protein is in your whey, but my rule of thumb is consume no more than 1/5 daily protein from whey supplements. There are exceptions like when traveling or busy work days, etc, but that should be those should be exceptions only. You want to set good eating habits with whole foods, which you seem to have down pretty well for your other nutrients.

Also, this diet might be too low in fat. As others have said, we don't know your goals, so it's hard to assess properly, but with the inclusion of oats and bread I'm guessing you're not cutting. Your whole plentiful fat sources are eggs, nuts, and olive oil. However, depending on the temperature at which you're cooking that meal, you might be ridding the oil of some its benefits. Besides, cooking food in oil isn't the most effective way to consume that fat, as not all of it will remain on the food. If you can stomach it, supplement with oil directly; I'm talking tablespoons straight into your mouth. You'll get 20g fat from the eggs and, depending on what constitutes a "handful" of nuts maybe 10-20g fat? Still, you picked excellent sources for fat. 

Granted, at 58 years-old your dietary needs will be less than many of the younger guys we advise to shoot down buckets of olive oil, lol. Nevertheless, this diet may be too low-calorie for muscle gain. 

Can you enter all that info into fitday and report back to use with your detailed macros? (total calories, and then breakdown of protein, carbs, fat (plus breakdown of how much of each type of fat you're getting).

Overall, though, nice food choices and primarily whole foods.


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## joboco (Jul 9, 2010)

Fhineas asked.        
Can you enter all that info into fitday and report back to use with your detailed macros? (total calories, and then breakdown of protein, carbs, fat (plus breakdown of how much of each type of fat you're getting).

Here goes,

Cals = 2936
Fat = 105.1 g
Carbs = 343.8 g
Prot = 155.1 g

Hope this makes sense to someone.
I think my protein is far too low.
Any suggestions gratefully received.


Also does anyone have any advise on my workout?


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## ceazur (Jul 9, 2010)

Yeah the protein is low and the carbs are some what high. But I guess in a lean bulk thats a average number for carbs. Definitely increase protein.


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## FMJ (Jul 9, 2010)

With all due respect to Phineas, I think the calories are too high. At 240 and a 43 inch waist, I'm guessing you're more than 25% bodyfat and if so your primary focus should be on a cutting cycle. 
You'll likely see some muscle gains as you're new to lifting but I wouldn't recommend consuming more than 2700-2800 calories until you've lost considerable bodyfat. In your case, with 2700ish being your maintainence level, you should cut back to about 2200 calories comprised of something like 50%pro, 25%carbs and 25% fat. 
Ater you've lost roughly 20-30 pounds which should bring you down to about 10-15% bodyfat, you could then try bulking to put on quality weight. 
Lastly, I think you're performing entirely TOO much in your training. I'm exhausted looking at it! You should be very proud of yourself to do as much as you can but you could probably cut back about 1/3 of that stuff and still make great gains without risking overtraining.


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## PushAndPull (Jul 9, 2010)

FMJ said:


> With all due respect to Phineas, I think the calories are too high.* At 240 and a 43 inch waist*, I'm guessing you're more than 25% bodyfat and if so your primary focus should be on a cutting cycle.
> You'll likely see some muscle gains as you're new to lifting but I wouldn't recommend consuming more than 2700-2800 calories until you've lost considerable bodyfat. In your case, with 2700ish being your maintainence level, you should cut back to about 2200 calories comprised of something like 50%pro, 25%carbs and 25% fat.
> Ater you've lost roughly 20-30 pounds which should bring you down to about 10-15% bodyfat, you could then try bulking to put on quality weight.
> Lastly, I think you're performing entirely TOO much in your training. I'm exhausted looking at it! You should be very proud of yourself to do as much as you can but you could probably cut back about 1/3 of that stuff and still make great gains without risking overtraining.



Agreed, the bold says it all. You should be cutting. I also agree that the training volume is way too high. You're 58 remember? How long do you think you can continue that kind of volume and be injury free?


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## scoops1515 (Jul 9, 2010)

Yea you should probably double your protein because your definitely big enough to handle it. Usually about 1g/1lbs of body weight. And go nuts on the cottage cheese. I throw that in with my oatmeal in the morning and eat it together. Then just do what was suggested before and use it instead of yogurt in meal 3. Also Eat like 400-500g of chicken not just 100g. The calories are ok for a man your size and the routine looks good as well similar to what I do. You might want to throw in some cardio as well (just an idea).


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## PushAndPull (Jul 9, 2010)

scoops1515 said:


> Yea you should probably double your protein because your definitely big enough to handle it. Usually about 1g/1lbs of body weight. And go nuts on the cottage cheese. I throw that in with my oatmeal in the morning and eat it together. Then just do what was suggested before and use it instead of yogurt in meal 3. Also Eat like 400-500g of chicken not just 100g. The calories are ok for a man your size and the *routine looks good as well similar to what I do*. You might want to throw in some cardio as well (just an idea).



What kind of personal trainer are you? How old are you? How long have you been training? This is an overweight, 58 yr old man, that has been training for roughly 8 months. And your advice is to do a routine similar to yours?


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## Phineas (Jul 9, 2010)

FMJ said:


> With all due respect to Phineas, I think the calories are too high. At 240 and a 43 inch waist, I'm guessing you're more than 25% bodyfat and if so your primary focus should be on a cutting cycle.
> You'll likely see some muscle gains as you're new to lifting but I wouldn't recommend consuming more than 2700-2800 calories until you've lost considerable bodyfat. In your case, with 2700ish being your maintainence level, you should cut back to about 2200 calories comprised of something like 50%pro, 25%carbs and 25% fat.
> Ater you've lost roughly 20-30 pounds which should bring you down to about 10-15% bodyfat, you could then try bulking to put on quality weight.
> Lastly, I think you're performing entirely TOO much in your training. I'm exhausted looking at it! You should be very proud of yourself to do as much as you can but you could probably cut back about 1/3 of that stuff and still make great gains without risking overtraining.



Shit! I looked right passed his BF!!! Damnit all that typing for nothing!


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## joboco (Jul 10, 2010)

Thanks guys for all your comments. I will work on the food but how do I increase protein and reduce calories. 
Any suggestions of  what  I could cut from my workout as i find it quite easy and have the energy to do more, although my shoulders do sometime ache for longer than other muscles.


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## ceazur (Jul 10, 2010)

Your going to have to replace some stuff.. Good low calorie protein sources are things like Whey Protein, Chicken, Tuna (Fish), etc..


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## joboco (Jul 10, 2010)

At the risk of being a pain in the neck, and I apologise in advance if I am but, with regard to my daily diet does anyone thing this is better?

Chicken      200g
Brown rice    60g
whole boiled eggs large 4 
Cashew nuts 1 oz
Almonds 1 oz
Coconut oil 1 table spoon
Olive oil     1 table spoon
Oats  80g
Low fat cottage cheese   300g
onion  1 small
Mushrooms raw2 medium
Carrot   1 
Broccoli  3 flowerets
My Protien inpact whey  100g

Total 
Cals     = 2288
Fat      = 101.2g
Carbs   = 114.7g
Protien = 230.9g


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## PushAndPull (Jul 10, 2010)

joboco said:


> Thanks guys for all your comments. I will work on the food but how do I increase protein and reduce calories.



Reducing your carb intake will easily allow you to add protein and still reduce your overall calorie intake.



joboco said:


> Any suggestions of  what  I could cut from my workout as i find it quite easy and have the energy to do more, although my shoulders do sometime ache for longer than other muscles.



Not a big shocker. You have no balance in your routine. For example, Thursday is shoulder overkill day. You have 5 exercises for your shoulders and 4 exercises for your entire lower body. Not good. Do you really believe that your shoulders can handle more volume than your entire lower body? You also have far too many isolation exercises in your routine and your placement of theses exercises is also bad. I've always felt that grouping Chest & Bi's and Back & Tri's was inefficient. You train Chest & Bi's on Monday and then Tuesday when you train back on Tuesday your fatigued Bi's are likely to limit your pulling(back) routine. Likewise if you did Back & Tri's first your push(bench) routine would suffer from your Tri's being fatigued. You would be far better off going with a push/pull routine and dropping most/all of the overkill accessory work. You should read the stickies in the training section, make a new routine, then post it in the training section for feedback.


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## PushAndPull (Jul 10, 2010)

joboco said:


> At the risk of being a pain in the neck, and I apologise in advance if I am but, with regard to my daily diet does anyone thing this is better?
> 
> Chicken      200g
> Brown rice    60g
> ...



Looks much better, you just beat my post saying cut the carbs.


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## Built (Jul 22, 2010)

joboco, how's it going? Diet feeling okay?


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## joboco (Jul 23, 2010)

Good thanks,
I've lost 6lb in two weeks, but also lost 1/2in off my biceps, and only 1/2in off my waist, so I'm a little confused. 

Admittedly I've missed training the last 4 days due to a stomach bug, so I'll just pick up where I left off on Monday.


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## FMJ (Jul 23, 2010)

joboco said:


> Good thanks,
> I've lost 6lb in two weeks, but also lost 1/2in off my biceps, and only 1/2in off my waist, so I'm a little confused.
> 
> Admittedly I've missed training the last 4 days due to a stomach bug, so I'll just pick up where I left off on Monday.


 
It's likely mostly water weight. You'll have to expect your measurements will decline as you cut calories. Just keep your protien up and your workouts demanding and that will help minimize muscle loss.
Good job on the weight loss!


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## JMRQ (Jul 23, 2010)

You're definitely old enough for DHEA- I hope it does some good things for your body...


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## joboco (Jul 24, 2010)

JMRQ said:


> You're definitely old enough for DHEA- I hope it does some good things for your body...


 
Thanks JMRQ. 
Do you think 100mg is OK, should I cycle it or not.
Is there anything else I could try as well.


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## joboco (Jul 24, 2010)

FMJ said:


> It's likely mostly water weight. You'll have to expect your measurements will decline as you cut calories. Just keep your protien up and your workouts demanding and that will help minimize muscle loss.
> Good job on the weight loss!


 
Thanks FMJ with regard to protein should I have 1g per lb of actual body weight, or 1g per lb of solid mass?


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## Built (Jul 24, 2010)

joboco, the usual guideline for minimal daily protein is a gram per pound lean mass, although in practice many go higher. I like mine around 1.5g/lb lean mass. For reference, I weigh 146 lbs and carry just under 120 lbs lean mass. My protein minimum is thus 120g daily, but usually consume around 160-180g.


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## FMJ (Jul 24, 2010)

Built said:


> joboco, the usual guideline for minimal daily protein is a gram per pound lean mass, although in practice many go higher. I like mine around 1.5g/lb lean mass. For reference, I weigh 146 lbs and carry just under 120 lbs lean mass. My protein minimum is thus 120g daily, but usually consume around 160-180g.


 
Yep. Built is on the mark, as always. And what a spectacular 120lbs of lean mass!


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## joboco (Jul 24, 2010)

Thanks guys much appreciated.


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## joboco (Aug 9, 2010)

Well here is my update.
Lost a total of 9lb, then for some strange reason put 4lb back on, waist still at 43in.
So at the moment I'm just sticking with the program to see what happens.


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## Built (Aug 10, 2010)

You've been weighing your food? If so, you're holding water somewhere, perhaps you had a high sodium day, or you're a little .... *ahem*...  "backed up". Hang in there.


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## joboco (Aug 10, 2010)

Built said:


> You've been weighing your food? If so, you're holding water somewhere, perhaps you had a high sodium day, or you're a little .... *ahem*... "backed up". Hang in there.


 
Thanks for that Built. I do take 5g of creatine daily even though I have always been the kind of guy who retains a lot of fluid and (other thing's)
I have also changed my diet a bit I now have the following
Protein 51% = 250.3g
Fat 31% = 71.2g
Carbs 19% 95.9g
Cals 2,057
Do you think this could be having an effect on lack of weight lost
.


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