# This is very sad & should never have happened.



## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041022/ap_on_re_us/red_sox_fans&cid=519&ncid=716

I saw this on the news as I pick up local Boston channels.

The riot footage that I saw was crazy, ppl attacking eachother even if they were friends.

But this young girl dying by the hands of the Boston PD is just outrageous.
I can understand wanting to control the crowd, but shooting projectiles similar to paint ball guns is very dangerous & stupid.

But this poor young girl has her life taken away by the ignorance of cops.

She was very beautiful IMO as they showed her picture.

She was a transfer student from Pittsburgh State what the news reported.

Had she stayed in Pittsburgh she'd be fine. I wonder if she knew my ex?

Or if the Red Sox lost she'd be fine, or if the Boston PD used better judgement she'd be fine, or if she stayed home she'd be fine.

I mean no disrespect to her or her family in any way but you would never see me at one of these "celebrations" as many of them turn dangerous like the Boston riot of last year they showed footage a few weeks ago about it.

I would just stay home or at my student housing at school.

I could be wrong but she might not even have been a baseball fan at all, just tagging along with friends who convinced her to go.

They are even talking about contacting local schools & expelling some students who were involved.

But IMO this wasn't necessary.

I pay my respects to her & her family/friends.


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## bulletproof1 (Oct 22, 2004)

do you think no one owns a television?


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## wtfzor (Oct 22, 2004)

i don't


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

bulletproof1

WTF is your problem?

No one has brought it up here yet.

My father has been following MLB baseball since the late 40's when he was a kid & watches the playoffs & World Series every year. & he didn't know about this tragedy until I told him about it.

Instead of giving a smart assed reply like that why not give some respects to the poor girl who lost her life b/c of the ignorance of the Boston PD.


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## Dale Mabry (Oct 22, 2004)

Definitely not the officer's fault, but it should go up the chain to whomever chose or designed the projectile.  Obviously this non-lethal projectile is, in fact, lethal.


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

Dale Mabry



> Definitely not the officer's fault, but it should go up the chain to whomever chose or designed the projectile. Obviously this non-lethal projectile is, in fact, lethal.



The officer fired it into the crowd infront of him & it went across the street so where the hell was he aiming?

But I don't think they tested these things first.

I've done paint ball more than once before & they can hurt depending on where they hit you, & if you're someone who doesn't have a lot of muscle or body fat on you, they will hurt even more.


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## I Are Baboon (Oct 22, 2004)

I blame the New York Yankees for blowing a 3-0 series lead.


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## MaxMirkin (Oct 22, 2004)

Was the officer a Yankee fan?


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

I don't think the previous 2 posts are acceptable attitudes.

We shouldn't be making jokes over a poor girls death by the ignorance of the police.


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## adrien_j9 (Oct 22, 2004)

I don't have a tv, and this IS very sad.  I'm an expert on "Accidents happen."  Horrible.  My condolences to her family and friends.


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## LAM (Oct 22, 2004)

people in this country need to get a grip about professional sports and athletes...


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## ALBOB (Oct 22, 2004)

Johnnny, you are the absolute MAN when it comes to posting pictures of beautiful women.......................but you should stop there.

 It was a freaking RIOT.  Police officers were sent in to subdue the crowd.  One of the tools they use is "non" lethal bullets.  Some of them are frangible, some are rubber.  They haven't been tested?!?!?  Are you out of your mind?  Of course they've been tested!  When they hit a person in the torso that person will stop WHATEVER they are doing RIGHT NOW.  Unfortunately, this young woman was hit in the eye with a stray bullet.  If you decreased the velocity of these projectiles so they wouldn't hurt you if hit in the eye, they would be completely ineffective if they hit you in the torso.  Should it have happened?  No.  But it was an ACCIDENT.  Not everything in the world can be prevented.  Shit happens.  Get the hell over it and move on.  Would you rather the police just stood idly by as these morons burned the whole goddamn town down?  No, she wasn't one of the morons but, like I said, shit happens.  "Had she stayed in Pittsburg she'd have been fine".  Yeah, "IF" is a real useful word when you have the clarity of hindsight.  IF worms had machine guns, birds wouldn't fuck with them.  So what!  She wasn't in Pittsburg.  She was in Boston and got hit by a stray projectile and died.  That does NOT mean the cops were ignorant.  That does NOT mean the cops were negligent.  The cops were doing there job and an innocent bystander got killed.  It's a terribly heartbreaking story but the fault lies with the idiots that started the riot in the first place, NOT the cops who were doing their jobs.


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## Jarhed (Oct 22, 2004)

Hmmmm.....I wonder if the same thing is going to happen when / if the Cubs get into the "Big Game?"  We may never know, in my lifetime anyways.


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

All I can say is the police even contradicted themselves as I saw the interview with the female commisioner who takes full responsiblity & admits that it should not have happened & was ingnorance especially using those paintball projectiles.


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## DFINEST (Oct 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> All I can say is the police even contradicted themselves as I saw the interview with the female commisioner who takes full responsiblity & admits that it should not have happened & was ingnorance especially using those paintball projectiles.



There was no contradiction, the police commissioner merely accepted
what happened and CONDEMNED the a$$holes who started the riot
because they cannot control their consumption of alcohol.
You should be pissed at the folks who started the riot, without them the riot
would never have started hence no need for police intervention.

IF YOU DON'T WANT THE OLICE AROUND, DON'T
INDULGE IN ACTIVITIES THAT REQUIRE POLICE INTERVENTION....
POLICE ARE OUTNUMBERED IN RIOT SITUATIONS
SO THEY USE RIOT CONTROL TECHNIQUES
SUCH AS PEPPER FILLED PAINTBALL PROJECTILES.


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## bulletproof1 (Oct 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> bulletproof1
> 
> WTF is your problem?
> 
> No one has brought it up here yet.




my problem is you want to start a thread for every piece of news that happens. we have televisions, radios, and newspapers, etc. do you think no one uses these other resources? why start a thread about it? i mean fuck.


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## ponyboy (Oct 22, 2004)

Oh there's goin' to be a suin' in the old town this year.  Let's see...the police department, the city of Boston, the school, the bar she got drunk at, her friends who took her out, the Red Sox - the list just goes on and on.  

I agree with the sentiment that it was an accident and those people shouldn't have been rioting in the first place.  Obviously the cop did not shoot their weapon intending to kill anyone.  That officer also has to live with the fact he caused an accidental death every day for the rest of their lives.  That is a pretty big punishment.


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## Arnold (Oct 22, 2004)

bulletproof1 said:
			
		

> my problem is you want to start a thread for every piece of news that happens. we have televisions, radios, and newspapers, etc. do you think no one uses these other resources? why start a thread about it? i mean fuck.



well, this *is* a message board, so I guess the point of it would be to discuss it.


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## Du (Oct 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> bulletproof1
> 
> WTF is your problem?
> 
> No one has brought it up here yet..


Youre a day late Johnny. 

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showpost.php?p=793152&postcount=328


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 22, 2004)

The blame should not fall on the officers who were merely using weapons prescribed by their department. Sometimes accidents happen. Granted, its a horrible thing to happen to anyone, but if anyone should be looked into, it is the manufacturer of the weapon.

Also note, sometimes accident DO happen.


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

bulletproof1



> my problem is you want to start a thread for every piece of news that happens. we have televisions, radios, and newspapers, etc. do you think no one uses these other resources? why start a thread about it? i mean fuck.



Robert DiMaggio said it perfectly



> well, this is a message board, so I guess the point of it would be to discuss it.



Besides I think that something like this is awful, she was a young beautiful girl with a whole life to live that was cut short by poor desicions.

In paint ball you wear a mask, but in the streets you don't wear a paintball mask.

She lost her life for nothing, & she wasn't apart of the wild ppl burning cars, tipping cars over, attacking ppl or looting.

She didn't deserve it.

& I haven't posted a piece of news lately btw.


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## ALBOB (Oct 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> bulletproof1
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, she was young and beautiful.  So, does that mean you wouldn't have cared if she was old and ugly?  Why do you keep emphasizing that?

Yes, her life was cut short by poor decisions.  But those poor decisions were those of the RIOTERS, NOT the police.

No she wasn't part of the riot, but she was there.  Sorry, if I see something like that going on I'm smart enough to know there's going to be police and they are going to put a stop to it.  It's their job.  Therefore I'm going to be SOMEPLACE ELSE.  LEAVE, for God's sake.  Get the hell out of the line of fire.  Why do you think they're called "innocent bystanders"?  Because they're STANDING BY.  The instant shit starts to hit the fan you GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.  Or you could end up being the next innocent bystander.

No, she didn't deserve it.  So what?  Bad things happen to good people, it's called life.  Deal with it.  I asked earlier, would you have the police stand idly by and watch as the entire town is destroyed by a bunch of hoodlums?


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

As I've already said in regards to ALBOB's reply "SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THERE".

You'll never catch me at one of these riots. Waaaay too dangerous.


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## ALBOB (Oct 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> As I've already said in regards to ALBOB's reply "SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THERE".
> 
> You'll never catch me at one of these riots. Waaaay too dangerous.



Hey, we have a winner!!!  Johnnny and ALBOB are in agreement.  Somebody should mark the calendar.   

Now, where are all those pictures of the beautiful women?


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

It was still unnecessary & I can't help but feel bad for this poor girl.


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## Du (Oct 22, 2004)

And hopefully the people that started the riot, the ones that participated in it.... hopefully they feel very badly too. Because it is partly their fault. They share most of the blame, along with the woman herself, along with the police.


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

du510



> And hopefully the people that started the riot, the ones that
> participated in it.... hopefully they feel very badly too. Because it is partly
> their fault. They share most of the blame, along with the woman
> herself, along with the police.



yes it is their fault as well & they need to play apart in keeping things safe.

They are just showing this now on the news.

one college student just said that someone threw a bottle towards a cop & he just started firing into the crowd at anyone as he showed his wounds.
This was the cop that fired into the eye of this poor girl.

I hope the ppl in the crowd feel just as bad, but some ppl are heartless.


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## Burner02 (Oct 22, 2004)

actually, place all the blame on the rioters.
As All-old stated, if the hoodlums never rioted, then there would not have been any interdiction by the PD. Then, there would not have been any accident.
It is sad that this young woman's life wsa cut short by selfish actions of others.


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

Burner02



> actually, place all the blame on the rioters.
> As All-old stated, if the hoodlums never rioted, then there would not have been any interdiction by the PD. Then, there would not have been any accident.
> It is sad that this young woman's life wsa cut short by selfish actions of others.



I can understand supporting your team & having an organized welcoming home parade, but these riots aren't acceptable for these reasons.


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## Burner02 (Oct 22, 2004)

exactly. WE've had riots here when the Broncos won a Super Bowl and the Avalanche took the Stanley cup. It belittles the efforts our ome team heros just accomplished.


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## ALBOB (Oct 22, 2004)

Burner02 said:
			
		

> exactly. WE've had riots here when the Broncos won a Super Bowl and the Avalanche took the Stanley cup. It belittles the efforts our ome team heros just accomplished.



The Broncos and the Avalanche?  Hometown heros?  Can't somebody ban Burner already?  He's stinkin' up the damn place.


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## Burner02 (Oct 22, 2004)

hey...all we have left are the nuggets...rightly named..
Isn't it time for your afternoon geritol and nap?


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

Burner02



> The Broncos and the Avalanche? Hometown heros? Can't somebody ban Burner already? He's stinkin' up the damn place.



Did anything such as this incident as what happened to this poor girl occur over there during these riots?


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## Burner02 (Oct 22, 2004)

I don't think there wsa anyone that died. it was cold out, so they brought out the water cannons and tear gas.


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## OceanDude (Oct 22, 2004)

This tragic loss of a beautiful, innocent young women over a damn ball game sickens me beyond words. All her dreams, all her trials, all her hopes gone in a flash. Why do people have to act like animals and riot?! Why the hell can't they just celebrate. My God what is wrong with people?!

OD


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

I just saw another police interview on the local news & the police department accepts full responsibility & says that they weren't using the proper measures.

Most other police states don't use those projectiles according to the news that Boston PD does.


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## ALBOB (Oct 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Most other police states



You might want to be careful with your terminology.  I know John Kerry would love to turn us into a communist country, but he hasn't succeeded just yet.


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

Okay I meant to write most other police departments in other states,
I was just saving time.


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## Du (Oct 22, 2004)

ALBOB said:
			
		

> You might want to be careful with your terminology. I know John Kerry would love to turn us into a communist country, but he hasn't succeeded just yet.


Did you hear he has the endorsement of the Communist Party USA? Pretty sickening, huh.


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## maniclion (Oct 22, 2004)

I never understood why they have tear gas, why not use laughing gas.  How about instead of sending in miltant looking police officers with batons and rubber bullets get a few comedians on bullhorns and shift the minds into a different attitude.  I think when the Police start lining up in their tough guy stances it intimidates crowds and sends them into the wrong mood.


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## ALBOB (Oct 22, 2004)

du510 said:
			
		

> Did you hear he has the endorsement of the Communist Party USA? Pretty sickening, huh.



Yeah, but I've had enough politics for one week.  I wasn't going to go there.


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## redspy (Oct 22, 2004)

du510 said:
			
		

> Did you hear he has the endorsement of the Communist Party USA? Pretty sickening, huh.


I'm sure their 3 members will really help us out.   Send them to Florida quickly.


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## Burner02 (Oct 22, 2004)

what if the comedian sucked??? That would escalate things!
Nothing worse than a bad comedian in frint of a hostile crowd.

I like the laughing gas. I'd incite a riot just for the fun of it if I knew I were gonna get gassed....
Then I wouldn't want to leave...hit me again, officer!
whew! HA HA HA HA H AHA H AHA HAHA AH AHA HA AH AHA !


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## ALBOB (Oct 22, 2004)

maniclion said:
			
		

> I never understood why they have tear gas, why not use laughing gas.  How about instead of sending in miltant looking police officers with batons and rubber bullets get a few comedians on bullhorns and shift the minds into a different attitude.  I think when the Police start lining up in their tough guy stances it intimidates crowds and sends them into the wrong mood.



You sir are a freaking genius!!!  I'm serious, I never thought of that.  What a fantastic idea.


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## adrien_j9 (Oct 22, 2004)

That isn't too bad an idea, really.  I agree that a hostile crowd feeds off the severity of police attendance.  Kind of like fighting fire with gasoline.


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## maniclion (Oct 22, 2004)

Burner02 said:
			
		

> what if the comedian sucked??? That would escalate things!
> Nothing worse than a bad comedian in frint of a hostile crowd.


With a head full of Nitrous Oxide even Alan Greenspan would sound like Eddie Murphy.


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## Johnnny (Oct 22, 2004)

um guys this thread is to pay respects to this poor girl who was killed by the neglegence of the police, Boston is one of the only States that has their PD use these projectiles.

That is why this shouldn't have happened.

I send my respects to the poor girl & her family.

& the Boston Herald showed pics that happened of the girl right after the incident while she lay on the street bleeding dead.

Many local ppl wen directly to the Herald & complained.


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## Burner02 (Oct 22, 2004)

adrien_j9 said:
			
		

> That isn't too bad an idea, really.  I agree that a hostile crowd feeds off the severity of police attendance.  Kind of like fighting fire with gasoline.


I may be wrong, but it is usually only a few that get crowds riled up. The presence of police usually gets the majority of people to calm down. The others, the ones that cause it, don't care...true, they probably get more riled up. They also usually have plain clothes PD in the crowds to find the inciters to try and get them out of there.


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## Triple Threat (Oct 22, 2004)

I Are Baboon said:
			
		

> I blame the New York Yankees for blowing a 3-0 series lead.



Spoken like a true Red Sox fan.    

Actually, it's the Red Sox fault.  If they'd win a pennant more than once every 18 years, maybe their fans would know how to act.  (Sorry, IAB, couldn't resist    )


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## redspy (Oct 22, 2004)

ALBOB said:
			
		

> You sir are a freaking genius!!! I'm serious, I never thought of that. What a fantastic idea.


I agree but I think we need a final twist, namely gasing them swiftly with Marijuana fumes.  I've never seen anyway fight whilst high on weed, it's too much effort.


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## Burner02 (Oct 22, 2004)

I'm still going ot side w/ albob. I don't really think it is neglegence on part of the PD.
Unfortunately for her, she wsa in the wrong place at the wrong time. 
I don't know what exactly happened. I wasn't there. Police are trained in these matters. You don't shoot at the head. Maybe something happened. (got bumped, either he or she, a thousand things could have happened to cause the sad outcome)
It was an accident, and that poor cop will have to live with that memory all his life.


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## ALBOB (Oct 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> um guys this thread is to pay respects to this poor girl who was killed by the neglegence of the police



Johnnny, I tried, I really tried.  But you just refuse to get it, don't you?  You go ahead and believe whatever you want.  I'll pray that the truth comes to you someday.


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## adrien_j9 (Oct 22, 2004)

Burner02 said:
			
		

> I'm still going ot side w/ albob. I don't really think it is neglegence on part of the PD.
> Unfortunately for her, she wsa in the wrong place at the wrong time.
> I don't know what exactly happened. I wasn't there. Police are trained in these matters. You don't shoot at the head. Maybe something happened. (got bumped, either he or she, a thousand things could have happened to cause the sad outcome)
> It was an accident, and that poor cop will have to live with that memory all his life.



Too true


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## LAM (Oct 22, 2004)

ALBOB said:
			
		

> Johnnny, I tried, I really tried.  But you just refuse to get it, don't you?  You go ahead and believe whatever you want.  I'll pray that the truth comes to you someday.



ALBOB you know that dude is thick...he only believes what he wants.  

the people that "caused" the riot are at fault, not the police...


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## Twigz (Oct 22, 2004)

*Just my thoughts*

Ok, let me do some splainnin for ya,  

First, that line of cops in the ???tough guy??? stance is a trained technique used to prevent injury to other officers, and that prevent the crowd from surrounding the officers. Rule one cover your ass. The simple fact that the police are there in there military looking outfits, which consists of protective padding, etc. (not just to look like bad asses) means that the crowd is already in the wrong mood. Second, what they were using were pepper balls, not tear gas. This is a method of focusing pepper spray on a target. The guns are used because of the large crowd. If it were one or two people then the officers would be more inclined to use their pepper spay containers. With the gun you can disperse the pepper spray contained in the balls over a larger area in a minimal amount of time. Third, it was said before that someone in the riot crowd threw a bottle at the officer, and that the officer just opened fire on the crowd with the pepper ball marker. I???m guessing that he felt that, that was a threat to him and to the other officers in the area. If he were to just stand by and accept thing being thrown at him and other officers than he is not doing his job, and putting himself and everyone else there in great danger. He in turn started dispersing the pepper balls into the area of the crowd were the bottle had come from, in turn causing people to not throw object at the officers and to disperse from the area. This would be the proper use of the pepper ball marker. Fourth, someone said that they play paintball. I would believe that you would understand that the paintballs that exit your marker become misshaped due to the excessive force of the air to project them, as they slow they tend to change shape again and veer off in one direction, or another. The officer was most likely trying to hit the torso area of the intended targets, but due to many different factors of the world this ball decided to veer off and strike this poor girl. Fifth, the word ???NON LETHAL??? is just plain dumb. Nothing, at least in my opinion is non lethal. Usually these devices are called ???less lethal???, intended to state that they were not made to cause death, but they may. Much like a pen is made to write with, but in some situation it may cause the death of a person. Finally laughing gas and comedians, please tell me that you were kidding, or I may have to bring my pen over to visit you.  



One last thing my heart does go out to the family and friends of this girl, it was a tragic incident that should not have happened. It however could have been a lot worse if the police were not there to put an end to the animal like behaviors of things that we call the superior species of the planet.  



Sorry for the rambling, but an Officers job is hard enough without the constant accusations made about them being to gungho. Most of them would rather talk to a person, instead of fighting with them.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 22, 2004)

I know one thing. I'd shoot Johnny with a rubber projectile right in his genitals.


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## Randy (Oct 23, 2004)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> well, this *is* a message board, so I guess the point of it would be to discuss it.


     Yeah! you tell em Prince


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## Randy (Oct 23, 2004)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> I know one thing. I'd shoot Johnny with a rubber projectile right in his genitals.


Dayammmm poor Johnnny...everyone picks on the poor guy. 

That was funny though    Couldn't help but laugh at that one 


Johnnny is alright


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## Johnnny (Oct 23, 2004)

camarosuper6



> I know one thing. I'd shoot Johnny with a rubber projectile right in
> his genitals.



You are such an immature bastard.  

Your own brother is younger than you & has called a truce & we're getting along. 

But I must say you really are a real prick.

I'd take a a rubber projectile & shoot right up your ass. 

I think this proves what type of human being Camaro is, here we are trying to pay respects to a poor innocent girl who lost her life b/c of the ignorance of the police & Boston Red Sox fans & this jag off starts this sh!t her.

What type of human being are you?


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## BoneCrusher (Oct 23, 2004)

Ohhhh he said shoot ... ban him.


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## Johnnny (Oct 23, 2004)

bonecrusher



> Ohhhh he said shoot ... ban him.



yeah ban CamaroSuper6 he did indeed say shoot.

But can't we keep this thread civil?

This poor young girl lost her life for crying out loud.


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## min0 lee (Oct 23, 2004)

May she rest in peace


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## Randy (Oct 23, 2004)

ALBOB said:
			
		

> You might want to be careful with your terminology. I know John Kerry would love to turn us into a communist country, but he hasn't succeeded just yet.


Let's pray this never happens 

And my prayers go out for the girl..


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 23, 2004)

> I think this proves what type of human being Camaro is, here we are trying to pay respects to a poor innocent girl who lost her life b/c of the ignorance of the police & Boston Red Sox fans & this jag off starts this sh!t her.
> 
> What type of human being are you?



Geezus Johnnny, just STFU with all your fuqqing babbling about how bad you feel for everybody all the time. You sound like a Jerry Lewis Telethon.
I was just jokin, tryin to ease up yet ANOTHER one of your depressing threads. I feel bad this happend to an innocent person. Innocent people die every day. Quit acting so fuqqing suprised. If we paid respects to every damn person who lost their life every day, then we'd be in here posting 24/7. 

Police Officers are human beings too. They make mistakes. And in this case, it wasn't even their fault. Ever hear of Murhpy's Law Johnnny??

What can go wrong WILL go wrong. Your birth is a perfect example.

Shit happens in life. Yes it sux. Get over it.


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## Johnnny (Oct 23, 2004)

camarosuper6



> Geezus Johnnny, just STFU with all your fuqqing babbling about how bad you feel for everybody all the time. You sound like a Jerry Lewis Telethon.
> I was just jokin, tryin to ease up yet ANOTHER one of your depressing threads. I feel bad this happend to an innocent person. Innocent people die every day. Quit acting so fuqqing suprised. If we paid respects to every damn person who lost their life every day, then we'd be in here posting 24/7.
> 
> Police Officers are human beings too. They make mistakes. And in this case, it wasn't even their fault. Ever hear of Murhpy's Law Johnnny??
> ...



Yeah easy for you to say.

Tell that to her father


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## Randy (Oct 23, 2004)

You two are funny to listen to, you feud like old married couples


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## Johnnny (Oct 23, 2004)

Randy



> You two are funny to listen to, you feud like old married couples



I hear where you're coming from, but I'm just thinking of the poor girl & her family at this point.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 23, 2004)

I'm sure her family owes you a debt of gratitude.


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## Johnnny (Oct 23, 2004)

camarosuper6



> I'm sure her family owes you a debt of gratitude.



 

I don't know why, but some ppl just can't seem to remain civil especially in a thread such as this.

Pay some respects to her family & leave it at that.

If this girls family saw you here posting shit like this while I & some others were trying to pay respects to their daughter, they wouldn't think too much of you Camaro, try acting like a human being for once in your life.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 23, 2004)




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## Johnnny (Oct 23, 2004)

CamaroSuper6

All I can say is you are too pathetic for words. 

Insulting me on a thread where ppl try to leave their respects to a poor girl who lost her life senselessly is low even for you.

Your brother is much more mature than you are at this point.

You are getting old & tired with this immaturity of yours.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 23, 2004)

Will I ever be able to sleep at night?


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## Randy (Oct 23, 2004)

Out of our lineup of Archie and Edith Bunker, who is who?


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 23, 2004)

Its funny. But then again its not.


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## Johnnny (Oct 23, 2004)

I don't see anything funny about an innocent girl losing her life.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 23, 2004)

Not the article dipshit. The feud.


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## Randy (Oct 23, 2004)

Maybe this will divert your attention away from each other for just a minute


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## Johnnny (Oct 23, 2004)

camarosuper6



> Not the article dipshit. The feud.



You started the feud dipshit, you are so hipocritical.

Randy



> Maybe this will divert your attention away from each other for just a minute



Careful Randy, there are some ladies here who find this offensive & we should respect their opinions.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 23, 2004)

> Careful Randy, there are some ladies here who find this offensive & we should respect their opinions.




for ONCE I agree with Randy.. and you STILL blow it Johnnny. Honestly, quit worrying about everyone else. If some people dont like the pic, tell them to turn off the damn monitor. 

I LIKE IT.


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## Randy (Oct 23, 2004)

What could be offensive about this? It is completely tasteful.

This is a body building forum. If the women can't appreciate a georgeous sculpted and tasteful picture of a beautiful woman, than they can simply chose to move to a different thread in my opinion. Now If I was posting X rated photos then that would be a different story my friend.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 23, 2004)

Dont try Randy.

Dont try.


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## Randy (Oct 23, 2004)




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## Randy (Oct 23, 2004)

Oh no, Now I am in between this 
I think my plan backfired


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## Chain Link (Oct 23, 2004)

I could be wrong, but to my understanding she was killed by an FN 303.-
http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/ll_303.htm
That is possibly one of the best anti riot weapons available. The reason other states police forces dont use them is because they are too expensive. These were originally purchased for the DNC, so they didnt even choose to buy these, hand-me-downs or something I guess. Either way, read the chart mid way through the article-

Bean bags are pretty standard use for less than lethal force.. and they're listed just above the,"excessive energy" line.(Obviously defined by FN) The FN 303 is about less than 1/2, maybe a 1/3 of that in energy, so blaming the weapon is out of the question IMO.

The fault next comes to the officer.. If he was begining to feel threatened(people aggressing twards him) and fired and missed, thats one thing,"Shit happens" so to speak. If he was at a safe range and just couldnt hit a target with that then he really shouldnt have used it. I would not blame the officer even in that case though, as Im sure they didnt just say,"oh, this is cool. I wanna try this one out today." If they were unable to use the weapon correctly, it was likely the departments fault for not giving sufficient training.(which becomes the governments fault for being cheap asses, which is to blame on the people who voted the people who put them in office) 

Anyways, the only person that can judge the officer is himself, "you werent there" ect, and Im sure reguardless of the situation, Im sure he(or she??) blames themself.

Its just one of those flukes that happens.. Yes, we could blame the voters for being the root cause of lack of training if that was indeed the reason she got hit.. But wouldnt it be more responsible to blame.. oh, I dunno... the rioters? 

Rioters need to understand one thing.. The second they're willing to needlessly destoy the property, and/or endanger the lives of people their lives become insignifigant. Eventually one of these riots will occur(but something more like the LA riots, not to many people packing at baseball games..) and they will endager the wrong area and get mowed down in the streets. Then of course there will be a huge f-ing debocle over how horrible it was that rioters got killed and guns are dangerous, and lo and behold Ive just turned this into a gun thread.    I think Ill stop here, but the police, and the weapon were most definitely NOT to blame. I think a part of the tragedy here is not only has this girl lost here life for no reason, but her family will never have the closure of the people responsible(the rioters) being locked up. They will literally have to live with,"Well, shit happens. Theres nothing we can do."


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## Johnnny (Oct 24, 2004)

I just saw the news on my local Fox boston channel & they reported that the police removed those "non" lethal crowd control devices & put up a law for no drinking in nearby clubs, bars & restaurants to keep ppl in normal human behavior.

I support this & maybe another useless death can be avoided.


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## myCATpowerlifts (Oct 24, 2004)

why the fuck would someone riot over a game??? you dont see me rioting over scrabble or something when i lose...


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 24, 2004)

I know many deparments that use non-lethal devices. 99 percent of the time, these devices SAVE lives, rather than take them. I'll take the occasional death over losing the non-lethals any day. No offense to the female, but one death is better than hundreds that will happen if they remove the projectices and return to regular weapons.


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## LAM (Oct 24, 2004)

myCATpowerlifts said:
			
		

> why the fuck would someone riot over a game???



this is the REAL problem but as usuall Americans never want to be accountable for their own actions...


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## Johnnny (Oct 24, 2004)

camarosuper6



> I know many deparments that use non-lethal devices. 99 percent of the time, these devices SAVE lives, rather than take them. I'll take the
> occasional death over losing the non-lethals any day. No offense to the
> female, but one death is better than hundreds that will happen if they
> remove the projectices and return to regular weapons.



I think your attitude might be different if it was your sister or relative as all of us would be majoryly pissed & major law suit would occur, but that still doesn't bring back our loved one.


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## bulletproof1 (Oct 24, 2004)

i think we should go through the obituaries in the thousands and thousands of newspapers in this country daily and start a thread about every person that is accidentally killed in this country. yes i know it would be thousands and thousands of threads and it would take hours and hours to accomplish this task, but i think all of these innocent people need to have a thread dedicated to them so we can mourn them properly. what do you think johnnny?


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## Johnnny (Oct 24, 2004)

bulletproof1



> i think we should go through the obituaries in the thousands and thousands of newspapers in this country daily and start a thread about every person that is accidentally killed in this country. yes i know it would be thousands and thousands of threads and it would take hours and hours to accomplish this task, but i think all of these innocent people need to have a thread dedicated to them so we can mourn them properly. what do you think johnnny?



You sure pick an apropriate thread for sarcasm.

In this case it was one individual who was killed.

But I guess you're too lazy just to pay a little bit of respects to her.

Can't you just say you're sorry what happened to this poor girl & that you feel bad for her family?

As for this incident, this one was avoidable.


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## bulletproof1 (Oct 24, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> bulletproof1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Johnnny (Oct 24, 2004)

bulletproof1



You are so immature. How old are you 12yrs old?

Like I said you wouldn't be acting this way if it was your sister, brother or best friend or whatever.

You'd be pissed as hell at the Boston PD as this incident was unnecessary.

If this girls parents & friends saw what you & a couple of others were doing to this thread to pay her just a little respect, they'd wonder what type of human being you really are.

Personally you have to be really lazy if you can't even write one or 2 sentences saying I feel bad for her & her family.


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## shutupntra1n (Oct 24, 2004)

I would usually never post on this thread but I saw you soo angry at my Superman   Johnnny don't get so angry  If you want sympathy over this sort of news brief you are on the wrong website. IM users find humor in everything, even this shit  I think Johnnny needs a hug  

I love you Bulletproof


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## bulletproof1 (Oct 24, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> bulletproof1
> 
> 
> 
> ...



on the contrary im old enough to be your daddy boy.

for once you are right, i would be more sympathetic if it was a family member but it wasnt nor have i heard that anyone here at IM knew her.

im confused as to why you feel i would write about someone i didnt even know or much less say "im sorry" to. how superficial is that?

if you have this insatiable desire to save the world, perhaps you should be a missionary or join a monastary or something.


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## Johnnny (Oct 24, 2004)

shutupntrain



> I would usually never post on this thread but I saw you soo angry at my
> Superman   Johnnny don't get so angry  If you
> want sympathy over this sort of news brief you are on the wrong website.
> IM users find humor in everything, even this shit  I think
> ...



Like I said, you'd be thinking differently if it was your sister or brother or whatever.


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## bulletproof1 (Oct 24, 2004)

shutupntra1n said:
			
		

> I love you Bulletproof



awwwww


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## bulletproof1 (Oct 24, 2004)

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041024/ap_on_re_us/obit_hickey_6

this is such a sad story. johnnny, i think you should start a thread so we can properly mourn this man.


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## adrien_j9 (Oct 24, 2004)

Having just experienced a death, I can tell you first hand what I've experienced.  Yes, people want to be remembered and respected, but that women's family may well be offended that you are stealing the limelight away from their daughter.  It's become the "Johnnny" show, instead of a thread to pay respect and condolences to the family.

We all know your views, Johnnny, and I'm not trying to bash you in any way.  But you've repeated yourself so many times, and for what?  You will and have made a difference by bringing her story to light for those of us who do not have television.  You will never be able to change everyone's views, and it seems like you are "beating a dead horse," so to speak.  

I would imagine that if her family read this thread, they'd be annoyed with several people, and probably you as well, for making such an issue of it.  Don't treat it as a bragging right, instead treat it as the tragedy it is.  I hope you understand and aren't offended.


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## Johnnny (Oct 24, 2004)

adrien_19



> We all know your views, Johnnny, and I'm not trying to bash you in any way. But you've repeated yourself so many times, and for what?



b/c of the poor attitude & mentality of ppl like camarosuper 6 & bulletproof1.

I feel bad for this girl as this shouldn't have happened.

One thing I agree on is that the rioters shouldn't have been behaving in such a fashion that would require that much police force.

A regular parade would've been fine & not required force.

Plus I agree that the policeman shouldn't have randomly fired into a bunch of ppl either.


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## Randy (Oct 24, 2004)

Not meaning to change the subject of this intriguing thread, BUTT.... 
It just seems so much better.


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## adrien_j9 (Oct 24, 2004)

I know nothing about police procedure, but I know too much about accidents, and this was obviously an accident.  The one thing to question would be the particular officer's motive for firing when, where, and how he did.  And no one opinion will ever mean anything as none of us know what was going through his mind when he fired.  That is what needs to be determined.
I've only skimmed through this thread, Camarosuper6 is a police officer and it only makes sense that he would have a better understanding of the situation than us.  I'm not defending him, at all, rather I would assume that he'd have a different outlook than any normal "civilian."  Bulletproof has always been fantastic as far as I've seen.  He's been extremely helpful for me, and I refuse to believe he had anything other than noble thoughts and intentions.  
I think that they reacted to your posts.  Repetition of the same sentence over and over is annoying and frustrating.  I understand why you did it, but I don't think you understand, or are trying to understand, their positions.  In a way, you are using what happened to this woman as a way to show everyone how great and noble you are.  You post and repost your ideals, then get angry when/if people disagree with you, or have a differing opinion.  Your intent is good, but you are seriously overkilling it.  Step back from it, stop the argument, and allow this thread to be useful: a way to pay respect to the woman who lost her life, instead of an IMF debate.  You don't always have to have the last word.  Be the bigger man.


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## Johnnny (Oct 24, 2004)

adrien_19



> You don't always have to have the last word. Be the bigger man.



Not trying to have the last word, just trying to get ppl to show some respect to this poor girl.

If immature ppl like bulletproof1 & camarosuper 6 don't like the thread or can't be bothered to say they're sorry for this poor girl, they should simply ignore it.

What if the girl happened to be one of these guys girlfriend?

Then again I think this girl would be too smart to go out with one of these guys.

Randy yes indeed that is a very beautiful prosterior


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## adrien_j9 (Oct 24, 2004)

You're missing the point, all together.  Maybe I didn't make myself clear.  YOU are turning this thread into the Camaro/Bulletproof thread, by constantly bringing them up.  You are also turning it into the "Johnnny's opinion" thread.  What is your TRUE goal for this thread?  For everyone to know how wonderful and giving you are?  For everyone to "see the light" and hate Camaro/Bulletproof as you do?  Or for people to know what happened to that woman?  Each one of your posts should be about your intent, and your intent ONLY.  They defeat you each and every time you rag on them.  Basic psychology, IGNORE THEM!


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## adrien_j9 (Oct 24, 2004)

By the way, you are hypocritical toward Camaro/Bulletproof, commenting on a chicks ass in a rememberance thread.  That MAY be why they dislike you.  Just my opinion.


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## bulletproof1 (Oct 24, 2004)

i see no problem in discussing the blame or fault of the accident but to push "im sorrys", "mourning", "respect", etc off on everybody else is ridiculous.

adrien, i felt for your loss because we all knew eric, maybe not personally but we still knew him. and johnnny, i do have a heart. i personally offered my thoughts to adrien and offered my shoulder in private if she ever needed someone to talk to. please do us all a favor and stfu.


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## Randy (Oct 24, 2004)

Now it sounds like a Melissa/Johnnny thread


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## adrien_j9 (Oct 24, 2004)

Bulletproof, I love you still!!!  Hey Randy...   Poophead!


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## bulletproof1 (Oct 24, 2004)

adrien_j9 said:
			
		

> Bulletproof, I love you still!!!



im flattered


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## Randy (Oct 24, 2004)

adrien_j9 said:
			
		

> Bulletproof, I love you still!!! Hey Randy...  Poophead!


Not a poophead, just a non biased opinion... All I see is in this thread is 
    . All preaching.... 

My advice... If people don't like the fact that Johnnny keeps commenting on this topic... Why do people keep     .
 It's funny to sit back and read all this stuff.


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## min0 lee (Oct 24, 2004)

*Awww*

Guess--->>>


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## Randy (Oct 24, 2004)

Ahhhhhhh I'm flattered too


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## adrien_j9 (Oct 24, 2004)

Min0, since I KNOW you were talking to me.... I love you too!!!!

Randy....you are right, and I knew it when I sent my last thread to Johnnny.  I'm trying to make him see something he doesn't want to - just the same thing I was preaching at him for.  So.....((((gulp))).......I'm sorry.  But hey....You're still a poophead!!


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## Randy (Oct 24, 2004)

You don't have to justify it to me adrien


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## adrien_j9 (Oct 24, 2004)

Ok....I take it back then.  Hey, wanna fight?


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## Randy (Oct 24, 2004)

Nah that's ok Adrien, there is far to much of that going on in here already 
I get enough excitement just being a spectator in this game.


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## min0 lee (Oct 24, 2004)

adrien_j9 said:
			
		

> Min0, since I KNOW you were talking to me.... I love you too!!!!


 
Nope that was not for you sweety. 

But this is


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## shutupntra1n (Oct 24, 2004)

I want flowers


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## min0 lee (Oct 24, 2004)

Flowers for you too!


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## shutupntra1n (Oct 24, 2004)




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## adrien_j9 (Oct 24, 2004)

Flowers are good!


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## maniclion (Oct 24, 2004)

Laughing gas instead of tear gas I tell ya.


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## Chain Link (Oct 24, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Plus I agree that the policeman shouldn't have randomly fired into a bunch of ppl either.





			
				Johnnny said:
			
		

> I just saw the news on my local Fox boston channel & they reported that the police removed those "non" lethal crowd control devices & put up a law for no drinking in nearby clubs, bars & restaurants to keep ppl in normal human behavior.
> 
> I support this & maybe another useless death can be avoided.



Ok, so from this I take it that in Canada, police randomly fire into crowds of rioters, and they DONT use less-than-lethal ammunition. Wow. Explains why you dont have many riots.  I guess I should have expected that from a country with such a large % of French, anything to save your own ass, eh?

HERE IN AMERICA we do use less than lethal ammunition, and we actually strategically target individuals causing high damage, or high risk ot others. We actually aim, cut the slack.. pause, then shoot. I know its hard to believe when you live in a country where military deodorant has an SPF rating.

 

Anyways, you werent there. How exactly do you know that there wasnt a drunk on top of a car pouring gasoline all over top of it to set it on fire? How do you know the officer didnt aim at his abdomen, fire the shot, then srop in shock as the drunk fell off the car just missing the round, and following through to hit the innocent bystandard?

Oh, and to all Canadians.. I was joking. I firmly believe Johnnny posts are along the same line as ASSPUNCTURE's, He likes to piss people off for shits and giggles.. And its pretty damn funny if you realize what hes doing!


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## adrien_j9 (Oct 24, 2004)

I'd have joined the riot for laughing gas!!


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## Randy (Oct 24, 2004)

I would have to agree with Chain Link on his points...

Sometimes the Police have to arm themselves accordingly to deal with the situation at hand.  In this case it was a violent riot.  These kind of situations can explode into a high magnitude where several innocent bystandards can get badly injured, or result in several fatalities,  not just one if the police do not quickly disarm the situation.   I know it is unfortunate when encountering any fatal casualties as a result of this type of situation, or any other.   Maybe this type of weapon was not the right answer either, but that is another story.  But you can't say that the police executed any wrong doing without being there to judge the real truth.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 24, 2004)

> I think your attitude might be different if it was your sister or relative as all of us would be majoryly pissed & major law suit would occur, but that still doesn't bring back our loved one.



Ok Mr. All Knowing Johnnny.... instead of using non-lethal force, what is YOUR solution to this problem?


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## Du (Oct 24, 2004)

I was in a riot-like situation once.... nothing violent, but it had the potential to be.... 

The firetrucks used foam on us. No one could see much, it broke up the crowd real quick. 
Id still prefer laughing gas though.


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## Twigz (Nov 17, 2004)

Just some FYI for ya all......

BOSTON, Massachusetts - The officer who fired a pepper-spray pellet that killed a woman in a raucous crowd of Red Sox fans was aiming at another fan but missed, police said Friday.

Police on Friday also identified the shooter as Officer Rochefort Milien. 

In an update of its investigation into the death of Victoria Snelgrove, police said Milien fired his pellet gun at a fan during an Oct. 21 disturbance, but missed. The shot hit Snelgrove in the eye, fatally injuring her.

"Victoria Snelgrove was not targeted; she was struck when the projectile missed its intended target," the statement said.


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## Rich46yo (Nov 17, 2004)

Ive been in a few such riots, and on the side that normally is the one that gets injured. There have been only two things in this life that has scared me. Being in a bad fire and being at the mercy of a crazed mob. I was in one once where the rioters were burning down and looting entire blocks. So what would you have the Police do? You dont have a constitutional right to get drunk or high and riot yaknow. Even if your team wins........Rich


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## Randy (Nov 17, 2004)

du510 said:
			
		

> I was in a riot-like situation once.... nothing violent, but it had the potential to be....
> 
> The firetrucks used foam on us. No one could see much, it broke up the crowd real quick.
> Id still prefer laughing gas though.


 





  I remember a few years back there was a panic inside a dance club.  I guess a fire started as a result of a short in one of the band members equipment.  In any case, I believe it started some banners on fire or something and took off from there.  The bad thing about it was that the majority of the people in the Arena or club thought that the fire and smoke was part of the show.  By the time they realized it wasn't the place was burning quickly out of control with so much smoke the crowd couldn't see to find their way out.  There were only so many exit doors and with a crowd of that magnitude they just panicked.  Many died of getting trompled on by the panicked crowd.  Large numbers died of smoke inhalation and some by the fire itself..   

This story always made me think whenever I go to an event.  I always have a mapped plan as to how to get out to the exits in case of an emergency.  Most would never think of that.   So whenever you happen to get nosebleed seats.. There just might be an advantage to that..  You're in most cases at least near the exits.


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## Johnnny (Nov 17, 2004)

Twigz



> Just some FYI for ya all......
> 
> BOSTON, Massachusetts - The officer who fired a pepper-spray pellet
> that killed a woman in a raucous crowd of Red Sox fans was aiming at
> ...



I'm not trying to get on your case or anything but we did see the news.

It was an accident which my yahoo news link on the very first post states, but the point is that he shouldn't have been firing into a crowd of ppl in the first place as who knows where the pellet would end up in a crowd.


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## Twigz (Nov 17, 2004)

Like I said FYI. 

Also if you read what I had put down, you would see that he was not just firing into a group of people, he was attempting to hit one person, and acidentally missed.


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## Twigz (Nov 17, 2004)

One other thing this press release just came out after the investigation, so it is new news.


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