# t3 questions ??



## kstar5 (Jan 26, 2013)

I have two questions regarding t3.
1. How long can t3 be ran?
2. Is tapering up/down nessesary with dose ive researched and read numerous things it is nessesary and it is not.


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## heartofalion (Jan 26, 2013)

So many variables. You shouldn't be running it without AAS. With a high power cycle, maybe 8 Weeks tops. Average cycle, no more than 4 Weeks. I don't taper up or down, but I run 50mcg straight through, only while on high dose Tren. No higher than 50.


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## HeavyLifter (Jan 26, 2013)

I run mine for six weeks, I prefer to tapper my dose up than back down. I never run it with out being on gear.


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## the_predator (Jan 27, 2013)

It is very important to taper your doses. This will help with metabolic ramp up and ramp down. It is a bad idea to go cold turkey off t3 as this will hamper/prolong your thyroid from returning to normal function. It will eventually return to normal function(99% of the time) anyway but will just take longer without proper tapering protocol. The longer it takes to get back to normal the harder it will be to keep weight(fat) off. Also for length...guys have run this stuff for a year straight and returned to normal after. Would I...hell no, but it can be done. You could run it the length of your cycle and be g2g. But, as above posted, it would be in your best interests to run this with gear. I came across a great article not to long ago. I will try to post if I can find it.


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## ChickDiesel (Jan 27, 2013)

kstar5 said:


> I have two questions regarding t3.
> 1. How long can t3 be ran?
> 2. Is tapering up/down nessesary with dose ive researched and read numerous things it is nessesary and it is not.



I will reply with questions...are you running t3 alone?  what will your dosage be? what are your goals?


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## pieguy (Jan 28, 2013)

You can run 25mcg-50mcg indefinitely probably and suffer no ill effects. Some people feel tapering makes them feel better and it may or may not help with recovery (which will happen no matter what within a few months), but that hasn't been studied. What has been studied is T3 is completely harmless at responsible dosages and that you shouldn't use it without anabolics because it strips muscle as well as fat. It also flattens you out like crazy at anything over 25mcg per day.


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## Valkyrie (Jan 29, 2013)

kstar5 said:


> I have two questions regarding t3.
> 1. How long can t3 be ran?
> 2. Is tapering up/down nessesary with dose ive researched and read numerous things it is nessesary and it is not.



THE MOST IMPORTANT THING about running T3 is the slow taper on the back end.
Oh look tons of different opinions.


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## kstar5 (Jan 29, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> THE MOST IMPORTANT THING about running T3 is the slow taper on the back end.
> Oh look tons of different opinions.



Thanks for input ay


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## kstar5 (Jan 29, 2013)

the_predator said:


> It is very important to taper your doses. This will help with metabolic ramp up and ramp down. It is a bad idea to go cold turkey off t3 as this will hamper/prolong your thyroid from returning to normal function. It will eventually return to normal function(99% of the time) anyway but will just take longer without proper tapering protocol. The longer it takes to get back to normal the harder it will be to keep weight(fat) off. Also for length...guys have run this stuff for a year straight and returned to normal after. Would I...hell no, but it can be done. You could run it the length of your cycle and be g2g. But, as above posted, it would be in your best interests to run this with gear. I came across a great article not to long ago. I will try to post if I can find it.



Thanks for input


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## SloppyJ (Jan 29, 2013)

I feel like you can run it longer than people have stated here.


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## Z499 (Jan 29, 2013)

I taper up to 100 and then back down


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## StanG (Jan 29, 2013)

You can run it for quite a long time and still recover full thyroid function. I read a write up on this by Nandi that ref a study where after over 9 months of full thyroid shutdown the participants recovered full thyroid function within 2 months. I'm not saying we should run it that long but i wouldn't hesitate to go 10-12 weeks. Tapering is silly if you do it to aid function. Its for comfort and doesn't need to be done as slowly up or down as people do it.


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## keith1569 (Jan 29, 2013)

I don't find a need to taper it either.. Also you can run it damn long without much problem.. I like 50mcg myself.


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## Valkyrie (Jan 29, 2013)

The taper is to allow your own thyroid function to slowly return to normal.


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## keith1569 (Jan 29, 2013)

Not to argue, but that has been debated tons of times.. Everyone has their own opinions about it


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## XYZ (Jan 30, 2013)

kstar5 said:


> I have two questions regarding t3.
> 1. How long can t3 be ran?
> 2. Is tapering up/down nessesary with dose ive researched and read numerous things it is nessesary and it is not.




1.  You can run it as long as you want.

2.  Tapering up in not necessary at all, going down is debateable.  I never go over 50mcgs, so I don't need to taper.

Guys running higher amounts of T3 (ABOVE 50-75mcgs) need to focus more on their diets and cardio.  The T3 is there to keep your metabolism running high, not do all of the work for you.


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## AugustWest (Jan 30, 2013)

XYZ said:


> 1.  You can run it as long as you want.
> 
> 2.  Tapering up in not necessary at all, going down is debateable.  I never go over 50mcgs, so I don't need to taper.
> 
> Guys running higher amounts of T3 (ABOVE 50-75mcgs) need to focus more on their diets and cardio.  The T3 is there to keep your metabolism running high, not do all of the work for you.



Say Im eating 3500 cals daily and I incorporate 50mcg of T3 daily. how much will that effect my metabolism/cal needs.

As in eating 3500 cals with 50mcg T3 is more like just eating 3000 cals daily. Obv I know its dif per person, just looking for a ballpark or in your experience.

P.S. Just trying to adjust my cal needs per day for my cycle. Once i add the T3/Clen i obviously dont wanna be eating too little.


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## XYZ (Jan 31, 2013)

AugustWest said:


> Say Im eating 3500 cals daily and I incorporate 50mcg of T3 daily. how much will that effect my metabolism/cal needs.
> 
> As in eating 3500 cals with 50mcg T3 is more like just eating 3000 cals daily. Obv I know its dif per person, just looking for a ballpark or in your experience.
> 
> P.S. Just trying to adjust my cal needs per day for my cycle. Once i add the T3/Clen i obviously dont wanna be eating too little.



It's impossible to say, it would cause different changes in different people.  If your diet and cardio are spot on FIRST, THEN AND ONLY THEN add the T3.


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## Jimmyinkedup (Jan 31, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> The taper is to allow your own thyroid function to slowly return to normal.



That is like saying your gonna drop your test from 1g/week to 750mg to 500mg so testicular function slowly returns to normal. It doesn't work that way.


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## AugustWest (Feb 1, 2013)

XYZ said:


> It's impossible to say, it would cause different changes in different people.  If your diet and cardio are spot on FIRST, THEN AND ONLY THEN add the T3.



well how do I know my diet is spot on if I dont know what sort of metabolic increasing effect those compounds will have?  for now, my diet is spot on. do I basically just go by how my body reacts?


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## dave 236 (Feb 1, 2013)

Jimmyinkedup said:


> That is like saying your gonna drop your test from 1g/week to 750mg to 500mg so testicular function slowly returns to normal. It doesn't work that way.


Not exactly. Most sensible people that run a gram of test a week for an extended cycle use hcg on cycle and a pct with clomid after to restart the hpt axis so yiur point is not relevant to T3 unless the is an alternative way to restart natural thyroid function. 


Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2


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## Jimmyinkedup (Feb 1, 2013)

dave 236 said:


> Not exactly. Most sensible people that run a gram of test a week for an extended cycle use hcg on cycle and a pct with clomid after to restart the hpt axis so yiur point is not relevant to T3 unless the is an alternative way to restart natural thyroid function.
> 
> 
> Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2



It a completely relevant analogy. Tapering doses with either does nothing to promote recovery of function any more quickly.


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## dave 236 (Feb 1, 2013)

No its not. There are varying opinions about this subject. But the irrelevance comes from you comparing two things that are completely different when it comes to the protocol of how they're used. I could just as easily say that tapering does work and thats why you taper down doses of corticol steroids or ssris and that proves it but id be comparing things with completely different mechanisms as well. And it would be irrelevant. 

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## Jimmyinkedup (Feb 1, 2013)

dave 236 said:


> No its not. There are varying opinions about this subject. But the irrelevance comes from you comparing two things that are completely different when it comes to the protocol of how they're used. *I could just as easily say that tapering does work and thats why you taper down doses of corticol steroids or ssris and that proves it *but id be comparing things with completely different mechanisms as well. And it would be irrelevant.
> 
> Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2



Yes you could but that would just demonstrate that you are unaware of glucocorticoid withdrawal and why they taper corticosteroids and also unaware of withdrawal symptoms of immediate ssri discontinuation.

The only reason to taper t3 is comfort. Dropping from 100mg to 50 mcg wont make your thyroid less "shut down"so to speak. You can feel free to disagree - thats fine. However people used to think tapering aas sped recovery of testicular function - till they learned better. Its the same with t3 and thyroid function (albeit Nandi put it to bed around 7 or 8 years ago). Do and beleive what you wish and if you cant see the relevance of that analogy I apologize.


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## Mike Arnold (Feb 1, 2013)

There is absolutely NO NEED to taper once you decide you want to go off.  In fact, it is a BAD idea.  Gradually reducing your T3 dosage does NOT result in a quicker recovery...it prolongs it by exposing the body to the suppressive effect of the drug for a longer period of time.  Just like with AAS, the body will not begin to recover its own production of T3 until exogenous T3 is eliminated...or nearly so.

We also used to believe that tapering steroids was the right thing to do.   Bro-science claimed that by gradually reducing the dose, the body would not be exposed to a rapid decline in hormone levels and therefore, would escape the "shock" of a hormonal dive-bomb.  In terms of recovery, we also thought that if we gradually reduced the dose, it would "prepare" the body for producing its own testosterone by more subtly bringing our hormone levels back to normal.

However, what we didn't understand at that time is that steroids, even at low dosages, still retain their strong suppressive influence on the HPTA.  By gradually reducing the dosage, all we were accomplishing was making recovery take even longer!  It is the same with T3.  If we want to recover from exogenous T3 as quickly as possible, we must eliminate T3 completely, all at once.  This way, the thyroid gland is forced to resume production at full force, as it attempts to correct the deficiency.  If we graudally reducing the dose, the body doesn't have any sense of urgency when it comes to restoring maximal production, as it is still being supplied with exogenous T3.  

In conclusion, when you are ready to end your cycle, do NOT taper.  Tapering with T3 is a myth...100% bro-science with no scientific validation.  You should treat T3 just like you treat AAS...get in, hit it hard and when you're done...you're done.  None of this fucking around, gradually reducing your dose bullshit.



It is also a myth that using T3 beyond 9 weeks will permanently shutdown one's natural production.  Studies have shown that even a full replacment dose of T3 taken for nearly a year did not result in permamant suppression, with users experiencing a full recovery within a relatively short period of time after discontinuing exogneous T3.  In the real-world, numerous individuals have run T3 for extended period of time and experienced a full recovery after just a few months.  Still, in my opinion, T3 is not a drug which should be used long-term just for the hell of it.



As far as tapering from the start of the cycle, this is generaly a good idea if you plan of going above 50 mcg per day.  At doses of 50 mcg and under, a taper is not needed.  If you don't know what dose is ideal for you, it is wise to start on the lower end and gradually work up as needed.  If you start off higher than what you need, it could negatively affect lean mass retention.


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## Mike Arnold (Feb 1, 2013)

Jimmyinkedup said:


> Yes you could but that would just demonstrate that you are unaware of glucocorticoid withdrawal and why they taper corticosteroids and also unaware of withdrawal symptoms of immediate ssri discontinuation.
> 
> *The only reason to taper t3 is comfort.* Dropping from 100mg to 50 mcg wont make your thyroid less "shut down"so to speak. You can feel free to disagree - thats fine. However people used to think tapering aas sped recovery of testicular function - till they learned better. Its the same with t3 and thyroid function (albeit Nandi put it to bed around 7 or 8 years ago). Do and beleive what you wish and if you cant see the relevance of that analogy I apologize.




See bold above:  Correct.  There is ZERO reason to taper T3.


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## XYZ (Feb 1, 2013)

AugustWest said:


> well how do I know my diet is spot on if I dont know what sort of metabolic increasing effect those compounds will have?  for now, my diet is spot on. do I basically just go by how my body reacts?



When you stop losing weight or plateau you'll need to change the diet and then add in some T3 if your carbs are low enough.


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## twotree (Feb 2, 2013)

Subbed. Good conversation guys. I'm in week 7 of T3. No longer going to taper off. I believe thyroid won't slowly startup as T3 slowly decreases.


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## BP2000 (Feb 2, 2013)

Nice discussion


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## trackstar19 (Feb 5, 2013)

As pointed out... tapering off isn't necessary. Why that is still so heavily recommended is beyond me. Prepare to feel flat constantly once your dose gets up there. For me past 75mcg and I get flat regardless of the juice i'm on (unless i hike carbs WAY up).Prepare to feel warm and sweaty a lot, on the bright side this will let you know it's working. Prepare to experience shortness of breath quicker during cardio/lifting sessions. Fat loss is good on t3, but i personally prefer something like clen + a hardener steroid + tren/test and maybe GH. T3 you have to be so careful with... Too much and you can lose valuable hard earned muscle FAST. Even when on a cycle.


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## Valkyrie (Feb 6, 2013)

trackstar19 said:


> As pointed out... tapering off isn't necessary. Why that is still so heavily recommended is beyond me. Prepare to feel flat constantly once your dose gets up there. For me past 75mcg and I get flat regardless of the juice i'm on (unless i hike carbs WAY up).Prepare to feel warm and sweaty a lot, on the bright side this will let you know it's working. Prepare to experience shortness of breath quicker during cardio/lifting sessions. Fat loss is good on t3, but i personally prefer something like clen + a hardener steroid + tren/test and maybe GH. T3 you have to be so careful with... Too much and you can lose valuable hard earned muscle FAST. Even when on a cycle.



I go to the best thyroid doctor in the country.  The taper is his advice (theoretical) for anyone using t3 for contest prep.


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## Mike Arnold (Feb 6, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> I go to the best thyroid doctor in the country.  The taper is his advice (theoretical) for anyone using t3 for contest prep.




You will feel better that way, but in terms of recovery, it only prolongs it.  I suppoose whether or not to taper is a matter of what is the most important to the user.


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## XYZ (Feb 6, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> I go to the* best thyroid doctor in the country*.  The taper is his advice (theoretical) for anyone using t3 for contest prep.



How was that determined?


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## Standard Donkey (Feb 6, 2013)

XYZ said:


> How was that determined?




he has a plaque in his office


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## AugustWest (Feb 6, 2013)

lol @ best thyroid doctor in the country.  i mustve missed the voting


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## Jimmyinkedup (Feb 6, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> I go to the best thyroid doctor in the country.



You should be going to the countries best proctologist because after reading this its likely you are full of shit.


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## XYZ (Feb 6, 2013)

standard donkey said:


> he has a plaque in his office




lmao!


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## stan22 (Feb 7, 2013)

Mike Arnold said:


> There is absolutely NO NEED to taper once you decide you want to go off.  In fact, it is a BAD idea.  Gradually reducing your T3 dosage does NOT result in a quicker recovery...it prolongs it by exposing the body to the suppressive effect of the drug for a longer period of time.  Just like with AAS, the body will not begin to recover its own production of T3 until exogenous T3 is eliminated...or nearly so.
> 
> We also used to believe that tapering steroids was the right thing to do.   Bro-science claimed that by gradually reducing the dose, the body would not be exposed to a rapid decline in hormone levels and therefore, would escape the "shock" of a hormonal dive-bomb.  In terms of recovery, we also thought that if we gradually reduced the dose, it would "prepare" the body for producing its own testosterone by more subtly bringing our hormone levels back to normal.
> 
> ...



Ok what if i have hypo thyroid and im already taking 100mcg daily of L-throxine to maintain normal levels. Would it still be ok to add T3 up to 80mcg and still be ok?


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## trackstar19 (Feb 7, 2013)

stan22 said:


> Ok what if i have hypo thyroid and im already taking 100mcg daily of L-throxine to maintain normal levels. Would it still be ok to add T3 up to 80mcg and still be ok?


 More isn't necessarily always better with t3. I'd start at 25mcg (on top of your 100mcg of l-throxine) and see how that goes, and if needed slowly up it from there. Better to slowly up it with t3, very easy to lose weight fast if you use too much. And it won't be just fat with t3 typically, even on cycle if i use too much i lose some muscle and i flatten out baddd. 75mcg seems to be my personal sweet spot


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## stan22 (Feb 7, 2013)

trackstar19 said:


> More isn't necessarily always better with t3. I'd start at 25mcg (on top of your 100mcg of l-throxine) and see how that goes, and if needed slowly up it from there. Better to slowly up it with t3, very easy to lose weight fast if you use too much. And it won't be just fat with t3 typically, even on cycle if i use too much i lose some muscle and i flatten out baddd. 75mcg seems to be my personal sweet spot



Thanks a lot might give that a try.


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## Valkyrie (Feb 8, 2013)

Don't forget that t3 is very catabolic great advice ITT to not take any more than the least amount that gets results.


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## twotree (Feb 8, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> Don't forget that t3 is very catabolic great advice ITT to not take any more than the least amount that gets results.



We're just all one big experiment aren't we...


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## Valkyrie (Feb 8, 2013)

twotree said:


> We're just all one big experiment aren't we...



We're not rule abiders that's for sure.


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## chocolatemalt (Feb 8, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> We're not rule abiders that's for sure.



Life is better this way.  I used to follow the rules... sucked.


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## Valkyrie (Feb 8, 2013)

chocolatemalt said:


> Life is better this way.  I used to follow the rules... sucked.



Not since the age of nine my friend!

Keeping go the bad work


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## BP2000 (Feb 10, 2013)

You can monitor your temperture while on T3.  Normal temp is 98.6.   Some thyroid docs use T3 in short intervels to folks who average a degree or two lower temps.  They have success in getting the endogenous T3 to ramp back up.  You can read about it at wilsonsyndrome.com


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