# Calories vs protein



## skinnyboi (May 30, 2011)

I DON'T want to get any more body fat, but I DO want to get BIGGER. I always read about guys eating crazy amounts of calories like 4000 a day and I wondered why this is neccessary?

Surely if I'm getting enough protein then I can get bigger without the need for so many calories. I weigh 70 kilograms and eat about 160grams of protein a day, mainily through egg whites, chicken, tuna and shakes. 

I only really add vegatables into the mix so my calorie intake is kept at around 1500 a day. 

Do I need to add more calories to get bigger or am I ok because I'm eating enough protein? 

Thanks in advance.


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## dteller1 (May 30, 2011)

i have often wondered this as well, to get heavier you need to eat more than your maintenance thats a basic law of thermodynamics, but i dont know why you cant replace already existing fat with new muscle thus balancing the energy. whatever your body doesnt have by way of eating it can surely take from fat reserves supposing you are eating enough protein. supposedly this doesnt work but i have no idea why.


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## 2tomlinson (May 30, 2011)

I don't want to get bigger, just leaner -- and I've wondered about his myself.  Experts?


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## ihateschoolmt (May 30, 2011)

1500 calories is what a small girl would eat to loose weight. 160g of protein really isn't that much either. If you weight 70kg then getting fat is the least of your worries. You need to eat a lot and about the time you've gained 40 pounds you will maybe need to cut down 5-10 pounds to get back to the same body fat as when you started. You're body doesn't want to get bigger like you do. It wants to stay at it's natural weight. You need to eat more calories than you burn because you will just burn off all the protein calories if you eat less than maintenance. It's work for your body to build new muscles and it doesn't want to do it or else you would naturally be built that way.


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## Marat (May 30, 2011)

skinnyboi said:


> I always read about guys eating crazy amounts of calories like 4000 a day and I wondered why this is neccessary?


One needs to be in a caloric surplus to gain muscle. A variety of factors dictate necessary  maintenance (and surplus) calories but the bottom line is that one needs to be in a surplus of calories, not just protein, to gain muscle.

I suppose an apt, simple analogy building a house. The bricks are the protein. You have a bunch of bricks lying around but you need workers to put the bricks together. Those are the calories. 

An aside: You provide a stimulus with the training to build muscle. Your body is going to adapt to that stimulus -- it can build muscle to be able to deal with the next bout of stimulus or it can just break down. Building muscle isn't really a priority of your body. It would rather not build more muscle than it thinks it needs -- it's a pretty high-maintenance tissue.  As an athlete/bodybuilder, you want more muscle than your body wants you to have.

Providing sufficient (i.e. above surplus) calories gives your body the energy it needs to build muscle. Because you are putting it an a 'happy' environment with all the food coming in, the body will take the route of building muscle since it has the means to do so. 

Without sufficient overall calories, the body will not be in an environment to build muscle.



skinnyboi said:


> my calorie intake is kept at around 1500 a day.



For an adult male, 1500 calories is almost invariably insufficient total calories to bulk on. 


skinnyboi said:


> Do I need to add more calories to get bigger or am I ok because I'm eating enough protein?



Eat more food. A large part of the industry is pretty hinged on building muscle without losing fat. If you can figure out the way to do this perfectly, you'll be rich. 

With that said, find something that works for you. Many people like Martin Berkhan's protocal from leangains.com. You can carb cycle -- there's plenty of options.

What's consistent between all of those options is that you need to be in a caloric surplus. The key is figuring out a protocol that fits your lifestyle, habits, etc. Anything that isn't retarded will work, find one that works for you.


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## Marat (May 30, 2011)

2tomlinson said:


> I don't want to get bigger, just leaner -- and I've wondered about his myself.



lose fat. 

lift heavy weights, eat sufficient protein, and take in fewer overall calories relative to your maintenance.

those are basically the tenets. the devil is in the details, as usual. you'll need to find a protocol that allows you to successfully fit all those cornerstone principals into your lifestyle.

Same with bulking, anything that isn't retarded will work. you'll need to find what works for you.


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## prop01 (May 30, 2011)

Marat said:


> One needs to be in a caloric surplus to gain muscle. A variety of factors dictate necessary maintenance (and surplus) calories but the bottom line is that one needs to be in a surplus of calories, not just protein, to gain muscle.
> 
> I suppose an apt, simple analogy building a house. The bricks are the protein. You have a bunch of bricks lying around but you need workers to put the bricks together. Those are the calories.
> 
> ...


 

Nice post ! 

In the 80's when I was serious about working out with weights I used to follow the diets of pro bodybuilders on a cut phase .
I still got strong and lost fat but did not gain any muscle either . The restriction in calories did not burn only fat but  muscle tissue as well .
Not too mention BBers use gear to help retain muscle on a strict diet .

We all want to build muscle and lose fat at the same time .


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## Kusakup (May 30, 2011)

I'm taking in 2300 Cals and around 250g protein a day. I'm not losing weight but I am shedding bf. I say you need to up your calories to at least 1800 and get at least 150g of protein a day.


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## OneWheyOrAnother (May 30, 2011)

You can still do a body recomp without steroids. It's just a horribly slow process.

The best way to do this is carb/calorie cycling. Give your body adequate calories on workout days, in fact a slight surplus. Then the next day, eat at a calorie deficit when not working out. Also reduce cardio.

The problem here is that when most people cut calories, then they to end lots and lots and lots of meat. Which is very hard to digest. In fact most people don't digest meat, it just putrefies and lowered it's bioavailability. 

What I would suggest is eating a balanced diet in a calorie deficit, lower the amount of protein you eat, and you will notice a difference in muscle, in fact you might keep more and you'll feel less sluggish.

Another reason many people lose muscle on a "cut" is because they overtrain. When you are CUTTING, you need to reduce your workout volume because your body has a hard time dealing with all the excess cortisol that people get from increased cardio and all these low weight/high rep sets people think they need to do on a cut. You are in a DEFICIT, which means you have left workers (calories) to aid the recovery process

If you want to remain all natural, and cut fat without dropping muscle, keep your workouts to about 30 minutes to 45 minutes. If you do cardio, do it separate from your workout or on a different day. And focus on heavy compound lifts in the 4-6 rep range. These lifts will boost your HGH levels and help counteract the cortisol. 

Also, avoid a high carb post workout shake to spike your insulin. Research shows that high carb PWO shakes reduce your HGH levels, which in turn lower your IGF-1 levels as well. Avoid an insulin spike for 2 hours after your workout to benefit from your GH spike.

Good luck !


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## Glycomann (May 30, 2011)

Add some carbs so you can utilize more of your dietary protein.  Protein will be metabolized to form glucose and fatty acids if you don't provide enough of those in your diet.  A few carbs and a few fats and your protein should be at where you are or even higher. Eat at least 4-5 meals a day even if some are only 300 kcals. That will keep your metabolism up.


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## Built (May 30, 2011)

Explain the comment about meat putrefying - I've not encountered anything that would support this claim, but I'm always happy to read.


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## Clenbut (May 31, 2011)

When you go for a pure protein diet then it will be hard for you to get the desired result, you should have a high protein diet but never go for only protein.


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## LightBearer (May 31, 2011)

That's why your name is skinny boy I suppose.
You're barely eating enough CALS to maintain weight, let alone gain


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## marklee (May 31, 2011)

All calories are not the same. A gram of fat takes about 9 kcal to burn, while carbohydrate and protein both take 4. The body tends to hold fat because not only is it energy-dense, it's also easy to digest - 100 calories of fat usually takes about 2 calories to burn. So your body prefers to burn carbohydrate and protein in the short-term and rely on that fat when you need to for your own survival.

Diet programs focus on carbohydrate because it's so common - and often just unhealthy refined sugars or difficult starches. If you need to lose weight, just lay off the rice, bread, and pasta.

Regarding ratios, it's simply hard to determine every day what you're getting. So focus on fresh protein sources, unsaturated fats, and simple carbohydrate like fresh fruit. No fruit juices or other sugary drinks. Just water.


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