# Quoran Burning Day



## GearsMcGilf (Sep 7, 2010)

Church plans Quran-burning event - CNN

It's about time and I hope we will start to see more of this.  We need to stop being such pussies and coddling these muslim bastards.  Instead of contorting ourselves trying not to offend those towel heads, we should let them know what the majority of Americans believe, which is that Islam is poison and it's nothing but a gutter religion.  I'm tempted to burn one meself and post it up on youtube.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 7, 2010)

ROFL! Ignorant and stupid people making fun of ignorant and stupid people by burning an ignorant and stupid book while quoting said truths from their own ignorent and stupid book.

My brain tries to rationalize it, but instead I just get a headache.


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Sep 7, 2010)

It's the principle of it that counts.  Yes, muslims are ignorant and stupid peopele, but they are trying to kill us.  The more we roll over for them and apologize for our very existence, the more we embolden them.  Gestures like this will let them know that we're not intimidated by them or their sick cult of a religion.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 7, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> It's the principle of it that counts.  Yes, muslims are ignorant and stupid peopele, but they are trying to kill us.  The more we roll over for them and apologize for our very existence, the more we embolden them.  Gestures like this will let them know that we're not intimidated by them or their sick cult of a religion.




Most Muslims aren't trying to kill us, just like not all Baptist are trying to bomb abortion clinics. Trust me, I have no respect for Islam. But the act of burning a religious book by Christians to protest against another group's invasion of their way of life is the epitome of hypocrisy.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 7, 2010)

Get back to me when it's Muslim Nuking Day.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 7, 2010)

burning that book is stupid and accomplishes nothing. I'm all for taking a stand against those who hate us, but lets do it intelligently. not act like a bunch of retards from lord of the flies


----------



## Vpower (Sep 7, 2010)

This shouldnt offend anyone, but I'll say it anyways.  Religious people (Christians) are burning another Religion's Holy book.   Religion is what has been causing the wars over all these years and to think one religion is better than another.  I don't agree with their antics(Muslims) and am no way against ridding the world of evil, but in a subjective view it just sounds hypocritical.


----------



## juggernaut (Sep 7, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Most Muslims aren't trying to kill us, just like not all Baptist are trying to bomb abortion clinics. Trust me, I have no respect for Islam. But the act of burning a religious book by Christians to protest against another group's invasion of their way of life is the epitome of hypocrisy.


this


----------



## juggernaut (Sep 7, 2010)

Not crazy about them building a mosque near Ground Zero either. I think it's bullshit.


----------



## 2tomlinson (Sep 7, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Get back to me when it's Muslim Nuking Day.



You remain one of the funniest people on this forum.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 7, 2010)

gearsmcgilf said:


> i'm tempted to burn one meself and post it up on youtube.



Do it!


----------



## TheGreatSatan (Sep 7, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> burning that book is stupid and accomplishes nothing. I'm all for taking a stand against those who hate us, but lets do it intelligently. not act like a bunch of retards from lord of the flies



You're right, we should put a decapitated pig head on the Mosque lawn!



DOMS said:


> Get back to me when it's Muslim Nuking Day.



And turn the Middle East into a sheet of glass


----------



## sprayherup (Sep 7, 2010)

I'll do it with the free pack of matches I got from the gas station. Score!!!


----------



## vortrit (Sep 7, 2010)

sprayherup said:


> I'll do it with the free pack of matches I got from the gas station. Score!!!



You could burn down the gas station too.


----------



## soxmuscle (Sep 7, 2010)

KelJu said:


> ROFL! Ignorant and stupid people making fun of ignorant and stupid people by burning an ignorant and stupid book while quoting said truths from their own ignorent and stupid book.
> 
> My brain tries to rationalize it, but instead I just get a headache.





This is awesome.


----------



## MyK (Sep 7, 2010)

YouTube Video


----------



## LAM (Sep 7, 2010)

KelJu said:


> ROFL! Ignorant and stupid people making fun of ignorant and stupid people by burning an ignorant and stupid book while quoting said truths from their own ignorent and stupid book.
> 
> My brain tries to rationalize it, but instead I just get a headache.



WTF!   Hey I'm going to get my GOD to come beat up your GOD!...LMFAO!


----------



## TheGreatSatan (Sep 7, 2010)

The pastor was denied a permit to have a bon fire on his own property! I think I'll burn the quoran and piss out the flames while I film it for YouTube


----------



## Dark Geared God (Sep 7, 2010)




----------



## Muscle_Girl (Sep 8, 2010)

There are various peoples with various beliefs, you can't say that all Americans are greedy, selfcentered pricks, and you can't say that all muslims are terrorists. I don't have a belief in any sort of religion, but it is other peoples RIGHT to have their own beliefs.

Burning a religion's holy book is by far the most offending act I can think of, superiority of the worst kind, no one in this world is more superior than another, no matter what your race, religion, social or financial status.


----------



## tucker01 (Sep 8, 2010)

Thanks Mom


----------



## DOMS (Sep 8, 2010)

Muscle_Girl said:


> Burning a religion's holy book is by far the most offending act I can think of,



How about killing a cartoon artist because he drew a picture?  Or beheading a reporter who did nothing wrong?  Or stoning a woman to death for cheating on her husband (especially because if he was caught, he'd get off pretty easy)?



Muscle_Girl said:


> superiority of the worst kind, no one in this world is more superior than another, no matter what your race, religion, social or financial status.



You're right, we're all equal.  Living in Beverly Hills is no different than living in the slums of Iran.


----------



## Dark Geared God (Sep 8, 2010)

DOMS said:


> How about killing a cartoon artist because he drew a picture? Or beheading a reporter who did nothing wrong? Or stoning a woman to death for cheating on her husband (especially because if he was caught, he'd get off pretty easy)?
> 
> 
> 
> You're right, we're all equal. Living in Beverly Hills is no different than living in the slums of Iran.


----------



## LAM (Sep 8, 2010)

I not sure why this surprise people...typical Christian hypocrisy


----------



## DOMS (Sep 8, 2010)

LAM said:


> I not sure why this surprise people...typical Christian hypocrisy



I know what you mean.  The Muslims' honesty is refreshing.  They say that they hate all non-Muslims that won't convert and are going to kill you, and then they do it.  The Christians however, say they should like everyone, but burn someone else's books.

Good call.


----------



## Arnold (Sep 8, 2010)

Peace on Earth = Abolish ALL Organized Religions


----------



## LAM (Sep 8, 2010)

Prince said:


> Peace on Earth = Abolish ALL Organized Religions



that would be a dream come true!


----------



## LAM (Sep 8, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> Not crazy about them building a mosque near Ground Zero either. I think it's bullshit.



isn't the "new" mosque simply a replacement for the original that was damaged or destroyed on 9-11?


----------



## DOMS (Sep 8, 2010)

Prince said:


> Peace on Earth = Abolish ALL Organized Religions



No doubt.  That certainly would have stopped Stalin, and Pol Pot, and Hitler, and...


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 8, 2010)

The fact that this is a "news" story is a joke.

<soapbox>
A group of.. what is it, 50?.. is going to burn the Koran, and we have our generals, politicians & even the president elevating it to national news & now trying to save face claiming these people don't represent America.  

Then we have the Muslim community in response holding riots, planning attacks/murders to demonstrate how peaceful their religion is.

The entire thing is a fucking joke.  Let them burn the books.. they don't represent us, but no amount of muslim ass kissing will deter fucktards who will just use this to push an anti-American agenda.

They burn our flag & pictures of Obama all the time.  Sorry, but hundreds of thousands of Muslims disrespect us & our President, yet they demand we stop at nothing to stop a group of 50 loons who clearly are just looking for attention. 

Fuck them.  That's what freedom is all about.
</soapbox>


----------



## DOMS (Sep 8, 2010)

busyLivin said:


> The fact that this is a "news" story is a joke.
> 
> <soapbox>
> A group of.. what is it, 50?.. is going to burn the Koran, and we have our generals, politicians & even the president elevating it to national news & now trying to save face claiming these people don't represent America.
> ...



All very good points.

The Spaniards kissed Muslims ass and what did it get them?  A bombing that killed 190 innocent people.


----------



## LAM (Sep 8, 2010)

DOMS said:


> No doubt.  That certainly would have stopped Stalin, and Pol Pot, and Hitler, and...



it's intriguing as to how the mind of the psychopath can rationalize atrocities against their fellow man and claim to be religious.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 8, 2010)

LAM said:


> it's intriguing as to how the mind of the psychopath can rationalize atrocities against their fellow man and claim to be religious.



People do that while claiming to be part of any "friendly" organization.  It's the overall organization that you need to look at.  

If religion was somehow abolished from the Earth, people was just keep on killing in the name of political groups, national groups, etc.  

The idea that the level of violence across the globe will go down without religion is just childish and out of touch with reality.


----------



## basskiller (Sep 8, 2010)

Prince said:


> Peace on Earth = Abolish ALL Organized Religions



here here!!!!


----------



## LAM (Sep 8, 2010)

DOMS said:


> The idea that the level of violence across the globe will go down without religion is just childish and out of touch with reality.



I don't think anyone would expect that to happen.  religion makes it to easy for people to discriminate against others with a different belief system.  belief systems in general are not based on logic or are factual in any way.

hate someone because they did or said something to you, etc. but to hate someone because they hold different beliefs than you do is insanity, IMO...


----------



## KelJu (Sep 8, 2010)

DOMS said:


> If religion was somehow abolished from the Earth, people was just keep on killing in the name of political groups, national groups, etc.




I believe this to be true to an extent. The power is the motive, religion is the tool.  



DOMS said:


> The idea that the level of violence across the globe will go down without religion is just childish and out of touch with reality.



This part I believe is false. There will always be violence, but there is always more violence where people are ignorant, uneducated, and closed minded. Fundamentalist religions keep people dumb and ignorant so they can be controlled. I would like to see Muslim terrorist recruit suicide bombers from a population that knows the 72 virgin story is fucking retarded.  

Sure, in many instances in history you can replace religion with some fucked up nationalist belief system. Its the same thing. Communism works just like a religion. Never question the status quo, always put your country ahead of yourself. Replace "status quo" with "God's wisdom" and replace "country" with "Jesus Christ", and you have the exact same formula.


----------



## LAM (Sep 8, 2010)

KelJu said:


> I believe this to be true to an extent. The power is the motive, religion is the tool.
> 
> This part I believe is false. There will always be violence, but there is always more violence where people are ignorant, uneducated, and closed minded. Fundamentalist religions keep people dumb and ignorant so they can be controlled. I would like to see Muslim terrorist recruit suicide bombers from a population that knows the 72 virgin story is fucking retarded.
> 
> Sure, in many instances in history you can replace religion with some fucked up nationalist belief system. Its the same thing. Communism works just like a religion. Never question the status quo, always put your country ahead of yourself. Replace "status quo" with "God's wisdom" and replace "country" with "Jesus Christ", and you have the exact same formula.



could not agree anymore with all of the above....

Religious fundamentalists IMO are the most dangerous people on the planet because they actually believe the bullshit that comes out of their mouths.  But to me it's interesting to see a religious fundamentalists such as Scott Roeder "break" their own code of conduct as it shows a distinct lack of faith in that same belief system.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 8, 2010)

LAM said:


> I don't think anyone would expect that to happen.  religion makes it to easy for people to discriminate against others with a different belief system.  belief systems in general are not based on logic or are factual in any way.
> 
> hate someone because they did or said something to you, etc. but to hate someone because they hold different beliefs than you do is insanity, IMO...


Religion makes it easier than what?  Doing it because of race?  Because of politics?  Because of nationality?

People that use religion don't have any easier at time getting their followers to do bad things than the people that use race.

Your logic doesn't hold.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 8, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Sure, in many instances in history you can replace religion with some fucked up nationalist belief system.



This was my point. Religion was the tool, just as politics, race or nationality as they were used by Stalin and Pol Pot.


----------



## maniclion (Sep 8, 2010)

I'm all for another Crusades meets Jihad, throw those jews in the middle and let them all destroy each other, good riddance, just don't try to drag me or others who couldn't give a shit into that ignorance......


----------



## LAM (Sep 8, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Religion makes it easier than what?  Doing it because of race?  Because of politics?  Because of nationality?
> 
> People that use religion don't have any easier at time getting their followers to do bad things than the people that use race.
> 
> Your logic doesn't hold.



like what's going on with the NYC Mosque BS in the news...IMO a lot of people are using religion to discriminate against Muslims vs what they really want to which is discriminate against all people from the Middle East, etc.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 8, 2010)

KelJu said:


> This part I believe is false. There will always be violence, but there is always more violence where people are ignorant, uneducated, and closed minded. Fundamentalist religions keep people dumb and ignorant so they can be controlled. I would like to see Muslim terrorist recruit suicide bombers from a population that knows the 72 virgin story is fucking retarded.
> 
> Sure, in many instances in history you can replace religion with some fucked up nationalist belief system. Its the same thing. Communism works just like a religion. Never question the status quo, always put your country ahead of yourself. Replace "status quo" with "God's wisdom" and replace "country" with "Jesus Christ", and you have the exact same formula.



what was the education level of the men who carried out the september 11 attacks? where were they educated?


----------



## maniclion (Sep 8, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> what was the education level of the men who carried out the september 11 attacks? where were they educated?


What does it matter, they could have all graduated from Oxford and still been ignorant as fuck.....


----------



## DOMS (Sep 8, 2010)

LAM said:


> like what's going on with the NYC Mosque BS in the news...IMO a lot of people are using religion to discriminate against Muslims vs what they really want to which is discriminate against all people from the Middle East, etc.



Yes, it's _*religion*_ that's causing all the anger--of course.   It has _nothing_ to do with flying planes into buildings and causing_* three-motherfucking-thousand*_ deaths by people from their religion.  Nor does it have anything at all to do with the Muslims around the world that celebrated those deaths.

I'd like to see if there was any outrage if Buddhists wanted to build a temple there.  Because, you know...they're a *religion*, too.


----------



## StacyCaliman (Sep 8, 2010)

Burning a book means nothing. It will accomplish nothing and it will fix nothing. If this is someone's answer, than that should speak for itself. I couldn't care less.


----------



## LAM (Sep 8, 2010)

StacyCaliman said:


> Burning a book means nothing. It will accomplish nothing and it will fix nothing. If this is someone's answer, than that should speak for itself. I couldn't care less.



the sad part is that ultimately non of this stuff changes anything, it is the epedime of futility.

As the saying goes "Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It"...

some say things never change, the world is quite the opposite..things always change and for humans in industrialized nations it seems to be always for the worst.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 8, 2010)

LAM said:


> some say things never change, the world is quite the opposite..things always change and for humans in industrialized nations it seems to be always for the worst.



And yet the West is still better than 90% or more of the planet.


----------



## OTG85 (Sep 8, 2010)

don't piss the muslims off or they will taint our gear!


----------



## Dark Geared God (Sep 8, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Yes, it's _*religion*_ that's causing all the anger--of course. It has _nothing_ to do with flying planes into buildings and causing_* three-motherfucking-thousand*_ deaths by people from their religion. Nor does it have anything at all to do with the Muslims around the world that celebrated those deaths.
> 
> I'd like to see if there was any outrage if Buddhists wanted to build a temple there. Because, you know...they're a *religion*, too.


 i like the way that india handles Islam..they blow up one of there places of worship and they go on a rampage and burn the churches...love it


----------



## maniclion (Sep 8, 2010)

LAM said:


> the sad part is that ultimately non of this stuff changes anything, it is the epedime of futility.
> 
> As the saying goes "Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It"...
> 
> some say things never change, the world is quite the opposite..things always change and for humans in industrialized nations it seems to be always for the worst.


Read 'A Study of History' by Arnold Toynbee....


----------



## KelJu (Sep 9, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> what was the education level of the men who carried out the september 11 attacks? where were they educated?



Manic already said basically what I was going to say. I would add that education shouldn't just be about raw data and facts. Education should be a mind opening experience where you challenge everything you think you know about the world.


----------



## sprayherup (Sep 9, 2010)

vortrit said:


> You could burn down the gas station too.


 
Only if the owner is Muslime.


----------



## MDR (Sep 9, 2010)

Books don't scare me.  It's the people who misinterpret what is in the book that scare me.  Islamic fundamentalist whackos make up a very small portion of the Islamic community, and are looked at with disdain by the community as a whole.  I am not religious in any way, shape or form, but I do believe that the bomb throwing idiots who are responsible for atrocities in the name of Islam are not representative of 99% of Muslim people.  Burning books does nothing useful, and the moron who is behind this nonsense is a fool and an idiot.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 9, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Manic already said basically what I was going to say. I would add that education shouldn't just be about raw data and facts. Education should be a mind opening experience where you challenge everything you think you know about the world.



well we've both been to university and both know that that is not part of the education system. people have to get that on their own. my point was only that it is no longer the uneducated poor who are going extremist. this has boiled over past that. even individuals who are exposed to higher education in the west harbor these extreme hatreds and thoughts. that was my only point


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 9, 2010)

MDR said:


> Books don't scare me.  It's the people who misinterpret what is in the book that scare me.  Islamic fundamentalist whackos make up a very small portion of the Islamic community, and are looked at with disdain by the community as a whole.  I am not religious in any way, shape or form, but I do believe that the bomb throwing idiots who are responsible for atrocities in the name of Islam are not representative of 99% of Muslim people.  Burning books does nothing useful, and the moron who is behind this nonsense is a fool and an idiot.



truthfully i think it is a much larger percentage than 1% who are the extremists. especially worldwide. i think that the majority of muslims are overall good people who treat people the right way. my major issue with islam is that the majority does not keep their radical minority in check.


----------



## MDR (Sep 9, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> truthfully i think it is a much larger percentage than 1% who are the extremists. especially worldwide. i think that the majority of muslims are overall good people who treat people the right way. my major issue with islam is that the majority does not keep their radical minority in check.



Could very well be larger that 1%.  I'm probably being optimistic.  But I agree with your point that most muslims are good people who are trying to live their lives well and treat people decently.  It would be nice if someone could keep the radicals in check, no doubt.


----------



## tucker01 (Sep 9, 2010)

Soo Approximately 1.2 billion who follow Islam worldwide.

That would mean at 1% radical there would be 12 million whack jobs lookin to blow shit up


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 9, 2010)

MDR said:


> Could very well be larger that 1%.  I'm probably being optimistic.  But I agree with your point that most muslims are good people who are trying to live their lives well and treat people decently.  It would be nice if someone could keep the radicals in check, no doubt.



im not saying we don't have our radicals. we do. Christians have our 1% ers who go out and bomb abortion clinics and other stupid shit, but we prosecute those guys. even the Christians who disagree with abortion don't agree killing is the way to solve it. I just wish the larger majority of good muslims would come out denounce radical islam and police themselves. I don't get the impression that this is the case.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 9, 2010)

IainDaniel said:


> Soo Approximately 1.2 billion who follow Islam worldwide.
> 
> That would mean at 1% radical there would be 12 million whack jobs lookin to blow shit up



I don't think it would be too hard to find 12 million muslims who cheered when september 11th happened


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 9, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Yes, it's _*religion*_ that's causing all the anger--of course.   It has _nothing_ to do with flying planes into buildings and causing_* three-motherfucking-thousand*_ deaths by people from their religion.  Nor does it have anything at all to do with the Muslims around the world that celebrated those deaths.
> 
> I'd like to see if there was any outrage if Buddhists wanted to build a temple there.  Because, you know...they're a *religion*, too.



If it's not about religion, do you think there would be such an uproar if it were a Saudi owned business or community center going up there considering 12 out of the 19 terrorists were Saudi?  Trust me, religion is the only thing it has to do with,


----------



## DOMS (Sep 9, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> If it's not about religion, do you think there would be such an uproar if it were a Saudi owned business or community center going up there considering 12 out of the 19 terrorists were Saudi?  Trust me, religion is the only thing it has to do with,



Bullshit.  

It's group affiliation.  It's not just that the Saudis were Muslim, it's also that so many Muslims around the world celebrated the deaths of 9/11.  And not just people in Saudi Arabia, but in other countries too.

Also, if it was just about one religion hating all others, then answer the Buddhist question.  The truth is that almost no one would complain about it.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 9, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> It's group affiliation.  It's not just that the Saudis were Muslim, it's also that so many Muslims around the world celebrated the deaths of 9/11.  And not just people in Saudi Arabia, but in other countries too.



this


----------



## MDR (Sep 9, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> It's group affiliation.  It's not just that the Saudis were Muslim, it's also that so many Muslims around the world celebrated the deaths of 9/11.  And not just people in Saudi Arabia, but in other countries too.
> 
> Also, if it was just about one religion hating all others, then answer the Buddhist question.  The truth is that almost no one would complain about it.



No serious Muslim celebrated the atrocities of 9/11.  Your post is asanine.  This is like saying all Christians celebrate the rape of children by catholic priests.  Mainstream Muslims do not believe violence is the answer to anything.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 9, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> It's group affiliation.  It's not just that the Saudis were Muslim, it's also that so many Muslims around the world celebrated the deaths of 9/11.  And not just people in Saudi Arabia, but in other countries too.
> 
> Also, if it was just about one religion hating all others, then answer the Buddhist question.  The truth is that almost no one would complain about it.



That question is irrelevant, I am not saying that it is all religions, I am saying that it is a religious issue.  Obviously there would be no uproar if Buddhists moved there, no one is projecting their anger to the Buddhists, they are projecting it on Muslims.  I am not saying the anger isn't justified or at least understandable, but I would never lie and say it isn't about religion.  By this logic the holocaust wasn't an issue with nationality because Canada is a nation and no one has a problem with the nation of Canada doing X.  You can say it's not about religion, but I would guarantee that more than 98% of the people picketing identify themselves as religious, and it is blatantly obvious that they are picketing against the Muslim religion.  If it were just a muslim-owned business would there be an issue?  I guarantee there are hundreds of business' owned by Muslims in the area.

BTW, where are all of the Fox News people who constantly talk about the founding fathers and what they stood for?  I am pretty sure religious freedom was pretty high up on that list.  Obviously people have the right to their opinion and the right to voice that opinion, just as they have the right to put a mosque there.  Do I agree it's the right thing to do?  No, but it's a slippery slope giving the gov't powers to say this can go here, this can go there.  I don't want our gov't doing that.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 9, 2010)

MDR said:


> No serious Muslim celebrated the atrocities of 9/11.  Your post is asanine.  This is like saying all Christians celebrate the rape of children by catholic priests.  Mainstream Muslims do not believe violence is the answer to anything.



There were enough of them celebrating to make an impression.  Not to mention Muslim politicians and religious leaders.

My post is asinine? You fucking wrote, "This is like saying all Christians celebrate the rape of children by catholic priests."  This goes beyond asinine into _retarded_.  _*No*_ Christian celebrated anything relating to that.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 9, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> By this logic the holocaust wasn't an issue with nationality because Canada is a nation and no one has a problem with the nation of Canada doing X.



There's a whole lot of nonsense.  Nice job.

So, you're saying that if a non-religious group, say Communists, commited 9/11, that a large percentage of Americans would hate Communists?  That's mother fucking stupid.  It's all about which group committed, and supported, the act.



Dale Mabry said:


> BTW, where are all of the Fox News people who constantly talk about the founding fathers and what they stood for?  I am pretty sure religious freedom was pretty high up on that list.  Obviously people have the right to their opinion and the right to voice that opinion, just as they have the right to put a mosque there.  Do I agree it's the right thing to do?  No, but it's a slippery slope giving the gov't powers to say this can go here, this can go there.  I don't want our gov't doing that.



Having freedom doesn't free you from the consequences of your actions.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 9, 2010)

DOMS said:


> There's a whole lot of nonsense.  Nice job.
> 
> So, you're saying that if a non-religious group, say Communists, commited 9/11, that a large percentage of Americans would hate Communists?  That's mother fucking stupid.  It's all about which group committed, and supported, the act.
> 
> ...



First off, let me just preface this by saying that I don't feel most Americans hate Muslims, they may not want a mosque there, but ask how many of them feel the gov't should get involved and I bet that number would be reserved to those who identify with a religion.  As for your question, yes, I am saying if 12 communists committed 9/11 in the name of communism that ignorant people would project their anger on to them.  How is that not common sense?  Do you not remember the Cold War?  Do you feel a war is justified based solely on the fact that one country believes people should work for what they get while the other country believes in distributing the wealth? You don't think if a communist country did this that the war on terror wouldn't be primarily dealing with a communist country/countries?  And in that instance, there wouldn't be an issue with a communist building of some sort going up?  Of course there would.  But we are not dealing with hypotheticals, we are dealing with what is currently happening, and this is 100% about religion.

Normally you debate logically DOMS, this is definitely not one of those cases.  No independent observer would say this is not a religious issue.  It is religious people picketing another religion's religious building, and as Kelju stated the book burning is religious people burning the religious book of another religion.  How is that not about religion?  Better yet, how could it be construed to be about anything else?

As for the second part, it may not free you from the consequences of the action, but it doesn't give others the right to break the law.  Picket all you want, but you know if that mosque goes up there are going to be far bigger consequences than picketing, and disagreeing with something doesn't justify breaking the law.  Those God Hates Fags guys picket funerals of the armed service people and that is despicable, but it is the exact same principle, they have the right, but is it right?  You don't think this is just going to lead to more violence when some Christian nutjob burns down the mosque?  In that instance, do you think the Muslim anger will be projected on to Buddhists, or will that actually be about religion in your eyes because it affects yours?

BTW, I know tone can't be shown over the internet, this is how I debate and I am not trying to be a dick, it just comes out that way.


----------



## MDR (Sep 9, 2010)

DOMS said:


> There were enough of them celebrating to make an impression.  Not to mention Muslim politicians and religious leaders.
> 
> My post is asinine? You fucking wrote, "This is like saying all Christians celebrate the rape of children by catholic priests."  This goes beyond asinine into _retarded_.  _*No*_ Christian celebrated anything relating to that.



Exactly my point.  It might not have been celebrated by the Catholic church or other Christians, but they sure went out of their way to cover up the facts, and allow it to continue.  If you want to indict mainstream Muslims for not stopping the radical fringe, then you have to look at how Christians have done the same thing to cover up atrocities committed by Christians.  Thinking this isn't true is, as I stated before, completely asinine.  The powers that be in the Catholic church knew what was going on, and did nothing to hold the guilty accountable.  They have a helluva lot more control over the guilty priests than mainstream Muslims have over the radical fringe, and they still chose to cover it up.  Disgusting.  More violence and murder is committed by Christians than all other religions combined.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 9, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> First off, let me just preface this by saying that I don't feel most Americans hate Muslims, they may not want a mosque there, but ask how many of them feel the gov't should get involved and I bet that number would be reserved to those who identify with a religion.  As for your question, yes, I am saying if 12 communists committed 9/11 in the name of communism that ignorant people would project their anger on to them.  How is that not common sense?  Do you not remember the Cold War?  Do you feel a war is justified based solely on the fact that one country believes people should work for what they get while the other country believes in distributing the wealth? You don't think if a communist country did this that the war on terror wouldn't be primarily dealing with a communist country/countries?  And in that instance, there wouldn't be an issue with a communist building of some sort going up?  Of course there would.  But we are not dealing with hypotheticals, we are dealing with what is currently happening, and this is 100% about religion.



So you're saying that only religious people have negative feelings about Muslims and don't want a mosque at ground zero?  Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot that only religious people get upset with a group of people who murder their people.



Dale Mabry said:


> Normally you debate logically DOMS, this is definitely not one of those cases.  No independent observer would say this is not a religious issue.  It is religious people picketing another religion's religious building, and as Kelju stated the book burning is religious people burning the religious book of another religion.  How is that not about religion?  *Better yet, how could it be construed to be about anything else?*



This is only religious insomuch as the group that did the murdering is a religion.  Right, so it's the fact that their Muslims, not that they killed 3000 innocent men, women, and children, that's the problem.

Yep, it's all about religion.  Which is why the general feelings of Americans towards Muslims was the same on 9/12/01 as it was on 9/10/01, right? _*Right?*_



Dale Mabry said:


> As for the second part, it may not free you from the consequences of the action, but it doesn't give others the right to break the law.  Picket all you want, but you know if that mosque goes up there are going to be far bigger consequences than picketing, and disagreeing with something doesn't justify breaking the law.  Those God Hates Fags guys picket funerals of the armed service people and that is despicable, but it is the exact same principle, they have the right, but is it right?  You don't think this is just going to lead to more violence when some Christian nutjob burns down the mosque?  In that instance, do you think the Muslim anger will be projected on to Buddhists, or will that actually be about religion in your eyes because it affects yours?



Then what?  We should do nothing because the Muslims might retaliate?  Living that way means that we have lost.  Period.  It means that we have changed our way of life to suit them.  Fuck that and fuck them.

It doesn't take a book burning to get the ragheads upset.  All you need to do is draw a comic of the child rapist Mohammed or _*not draw him*_ on South Park (the last attempted bombing in NY was in front of the Viacom offices, the parent company of Comedy Central, the makers of South Park).

As far as the God hates fags people, they are round denounced by every other Christian ogranization.  Rather unlike the Muslims and their leaders.  Not only that, but other Christians showed up to counter protest, some of it with force.  But I'm sure that conflict is also about religion.

So yes, it's not about killing 3000 innocent Americans.  It's not about the support shown abroad by other Muslims.  It's not about the continued attacks.  It's not about a group of people trying to put a large presence where people from their group committed an atrocity.  It's not about a group of people that live like it's the 15th century.  It's not about killing gays.  It's not about subjugating women.  It's about _religion_...sure.



Dale Mabry said:


> BTW, I know tone can't be shown over the internet, this is how I debate and I am not trying to be a dick, it just comes out that way.



That never, ever, happens to me.  Evar...


----------



## DOMS (Sep 9, 2010)

MDR said:


> Exactly my point.  It might not have been celebrated by the Catholic church or other Christians, but they sure went out of their way to cover up the facts, and allow it to continue.  If you want to indict mainstream Muslims for not stopping the radical fringe, then you have to look at how Christians have done the same thing to cover up atrocities committed by Christians.  Thinking this isn't true is, as I stated before, completely asinine.  The powers that be in the Catholic church knew what was going on, and did nothing to hold the guilty accountable.  They have a helluva lot more control over the guilty priests than mainstream Muslims have over the radical fringe, and they still chose to cover it up.  Disgusting.  More violence and murdermurder is committed by Christians that all other religions combined.



You haven't bothered to really think about it.

Catholic priests were protected by _their organization_, the Vatican, the same way the terrorists were.  The big difference, which you're trying desperately to ignore, is that Christians, both individuals and organizations, not only denounced the actions of the priests and the Vatican, but went after them as much as the law would allow.  Whereas many Mulisms and Muslims leaders outright celebrated 9/11.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 9, 2010)

This comic sums it up perfectly:


----------



## MDR (Sep 9, 2010)

You don't seem capable of really thinking about this subject clearly. The powers that be in the Catholic church covered up the actions of the pedophile priests to protect their organization.  This is called tacit approval.  They knew what was going on, and had the power to stop it, and they allowed it to continue.  I do not believe that many Muslim and Muslim leaders celebrated 9/11.  Most Muslims were appalled at the actions of the radicals behind 9/11. The only ones celebrating were members of the radical fringe, which makes up a very small portion of "Muslims" worldwide.  You want to indict all Muslims for the actions of people that mainstream Muslims do not even recognize at Muslim.  That is insane.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 9, 2010)

MDR said:


> More violence and murder is committed by Christians than all other religions combined.



and your argument just went off the tracks right there dude.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 9, 2010)

You said this:





MDR said:


> You don't seem capable of really thinking about this subject clearly.



But then you said this: 





MDR said:


> The powers that be in the Catholic church covered up the actions of the pedophile priests to protect their organization.  This is called tacit approval.  They knew what was going on, and had the power to stop it, and they allowed it to continue.



Try to think.  Really.  The comparison is that the Vatican equates to the terrorists group, both of which supported their people.  The other match was the whole of Christianity and Muslims.  The Christians denouced and went after the Catholic priests.  The Muslims, however, didn't go after terrorists and some openly praised them.

For the love of God, _*think*_.



MDR said:


> I do not believe that many Muslim and Muslim leaders celebrated 9/11.  Most Muslims were appalled at the actions of the radicals behind 9/11. The only ones celebrating were members of the radical fringe, which makes up a very small portion of "Muslims" worldwide.  You want to indict all Muslims for the actions of people that mainstream Muslims do not even recognize at Muslim.  That is insane.



Maybe, maybe not.  I've looked for an exact number, but the information is so muddled that it's hard to find the truth of it.  However, what is clear is that the Muslims don't give a rat's ass about Americans as shown in their desire to force a mosque to be built near the site of 9/11.  They're instigating shit and acting all butt-hurt when people protest and try to stop it.

Let's go hypothetical.  Let's say that you have a daughter who gets killed in her bedroom.  Now, the family of the guy that did it wants to buy the home next door and create a small museum for the "misunderstood" family member.  That's okay, right?  It's not like the actual murder who wants to build there, just his family.  There's no connection whatsoever, right?

Yeah, that's over the top, but it gets the point across clearly enough.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 9, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> and your argument just went off the tracks right there dude.



I missed that quote.  How fucking stupid.  Really.

That's something said by someone who knows jack shit about the history of the world.


----------



## MDR (Sep 9, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> and your argument just went off the tracks right there dude.



How? Prove it.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 9, 2010)

DOMS said:


> So you're saying that only religious people have negative feelings about Muslims and don't want a mosque at ground zero?  Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot that only religious people get upset with a group of people who murder their people.
> 
> *Absolutely not, just ignorant people.  I think any logical person could see that was a fringe sect of Islam, and I don't think there was as much celebrating as you think.*
> 
> ...



embedded.  But honestly, MDR's post is spot on wrt fringe groups within religions.  There is no difference between what is going on with Muslims and what went on with the pedophilia in the Catholic church.  The inaction on both sides is nearly identical, yet if you ask either a Christian or a Muslim, they are different.  Ask an impartial 3rd party, and they are the same.  Just ask your Buddhist friends.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 9, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> embedded.  But honestly, MDR's post is spot on wrt fringe groups within religions.  There is no difference between what is going on with Muslims and what went on with the pedophilia in the Catholic church.  The inaction on both sides is nearly identical, yet if you ask either a Christian or a Muslim, they are different.  Ask an impartial 3rd party, and they are the same.  Just ask your Buddhist friends.



Show you a poll?  Show a _*fucking*_ poll?  Holy shit, you're in denial if you think that there was no difference in how Americans viewed Muslims before and after 9/11.

It's not like your holding back data or using a method of arguing (such as the straw man).  You're outright just...sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "na-na-an." 

It's rare that I give up on an argument, my record shows that, but if you're willing to go that far, so be it.


----------



## maniclion (Sep 9, 2010)

On that same day I am going to burn a set of encyclopedias.....with a history book as kindling....

I mean what the fuck is the point of educating children if they just revert to idiots in their adult life.....

How is it that children act so civilized and tolerant yet adults become vicious assholes?


----------



## Zaphod (Sep 9, 2010)

I say light 'em up!  Those assholes will burn anything they want regardless of who they piss off.  But when there's the remote possibility of burning something they consider holy then everybody better just watch the fuck out because that's something the muslims don't like and now they're going to be on the warpath.  They want people to respect their religion then they need to start doing the same thing.  They want to behead, torture, burn the bodies of any and all non-muslims, burn flags, bibles, etc. without retribution.  Guess what, assholes.  Time to pay the piper.  You will be accorded the same respect you give to others.  It just happens to be you don't respect others in any way, shape or form.  So take your stupid threats of violence and fuck your own faces.  

Have a nice day.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 9, 2010)

maniclion said:


> On that same day I am going to burn a set of encyclopedias.....with a history book as kindling....
> 
> I mean what the fuck is the point of educating children if they just revert to idiots in their adult life.....
> 
> How is it that children act so civilized and tolerant yet adults become vicious assholes?



It is because of the common logical fallacy that age equates to wisdom. "Boy when you have lived as long as I have, you will know I'm right!" Oh yeah, well it has been 20 years later and I still think every adult who had a part in my life was completely full of shit.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 9, 2010)

MDR said:


> How? Prove it.



christianity accounts for what 25%-30%of the worlds population? simple math makes it pretty clear that you are wrong. 1 billion plus people in china. do we need to go into the atrocities of the chinese? makes anything Christians are doing seem pedestrian. How about stoning of women in arab countries? but you are right. Christians are worse


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 9, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> embedded.  But honestly, MDR's post is spot on wrt fringe groups within religions.  There is no difference between what is going on with Muslims and what went on with the pedophilia in the Catholic church.  The inaction on both sides is nearly identical, yet if you ask either a Christian or a Muslim, they are different.  Ask an impartial 3rd party, and they are the same.  Just ask your Buddhist friends.



bullshit. what the catholics did to little boys was not state sponsored. the catholic church tried to cover it up, but as soon as it was made public other Christian sects denounced it and the government prosecuted it. that is the difference.

 do you see other sects in Islam denouncing radical Islam? I don't. plus add on the fact that right now you have state sponsored radical muslims controling Iran, saudia arabia, and many other arab nations comparing Christianity to Islam in these regards is nuts.

I do think that there are great things about the religion of Islam. I do think there are good muslims who live wonderful lives. lives some Christians could learn from their example on. I've read the Koran. I don't think that this segment of Islam is doing enough to police their radical brethren.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 9, 2010)

KelJu said:


> It is because of the common logical fallacy that age equates to wisdom. "Boy when you have lived as long as I have, you will know I'm right!" Oh yeah, well it has been 20 years later and I still think every adult who had a part in my life was completely full of shit.



must spread reputation around first. i LOL'd


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 9, 2010)

MDR said:


> How? Prove it.



I find it pretty funny that you make the ridiculous claim and you demand bio-chem proves YOU wrong when he calls you out on it.


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 9, 2010)

Well, the book burning was cancelled...The white house got involved. 


I'm so tired of everyone bowing down to these nut jobs.  Rip on a Jew, Christian.. no problem.. but when it comes to muslims everyone shits their pants.  Pathetic.

Why do we care so much what they think? they're never going to change their mind about us.  Do they really not realize that if we really wanted to wipe them out (as they claim).. we could do it in less than a day?  Instead thousands of US troops sacrifice their lives trying to help them, and we're still hated. Fuck them.


----------



## TheGreatSatan (Sep 9, 2010)

It's rediculous how sensitive suicide bombers are these days


----------



## maniclion (Sep 9, 2010)

KelJu said:


> It is because of the common logical fallacy that age equates to wisdom. "Boy when you have lived as long as I have, you will know I'm right!" Oh yeah, well it has been 20 years later and I still think every adult who had a part in my life was completely full of shit.


I also attribute it to mind lock and bitterness, so many adults stop learning after a point, sure they pick up new data but they don't challenge their minds....also they become bitter and callous as their face starts to look as wrinkled as their nut sack or they grow a vagina in the skin of their neck...the old dog new tricks thing comes to mind....


----------



## LAM (Sep 9, 2010)

DOMS said:


> You haven't bothered to really think about it.
> 
> Catholic priests were protected by _their organization_, the Vatican, the same way the terrorists were.



to be technical what the Catholic Church did during the Crusades and killing from 200K to 1.5 million (depending on the source) people in Europe couldn't be called anything but terrorism.


----------



## maniclion (Sep 9, 2010)

LAM said:


> to be technical what the Catholic Church did during the Crusades and killing from 200K to 1.5 million (depending on the source) people in Europe couldn't be called anything but terrorism.


The Inquisition was Domestic Terrorism, boy did they terrorize people.....Some of the most disgusting methods of torture were born out of Christians thinking it was their right to punish those perceived as wicked, Iron Maidens, the rack, Judas' Cradle, spiked chairs, etc.....I'd rather die in a car bombing than be subjected to even an hour of those devices....


----------



## DOMS (Sep 9, 2010)

LAM said:


> to be technical what the Catholic Church did during the Crusades and killing from 200K to 1.5 million (depending on the source) people in Europe couldn't be called anything but terrorism.



From 200K to 1.5 million?  Where did you find those number?  There so broad as to be meaningless.

But okay, lets just say it was 1.5 million.  In the Democratic Republic of the Congo, where many pagan religions exist, there have been estimate up to 5.4 million deaths since _*1998*_.  That's not 1498, but 1998.

The idea that Christians have killed more people than non-Christians is something that only a person who ignores math can have.  What tiny percentage of the world population has been Christian?  What very large percentage of the world has followed a non-Christian religion?

Add to that the basic fact that the places with the most ongoing wars and genocide has been in the Middle East and Sub-Saharan Africa (not to mention South-East Asia).  Places where Christianity has, historically, had very little presence.

You see what I did there?  It's called critical thinking.  Adding that a very small percentage of the people who have lived on this planet to the fact that the greatest amount of historical killing has happened in places where there are very few Christians, tells you that the idea that Christians have killed more people than all other religions is moronic, to put it mildly.

Only a person that is unduly Western-centric (not knowing or caring about the rest of the world) or in denial would make such an idiot claim.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 9, 2010)

maniclion said:


> The Inquisition was Domestic Terrorism, boy did they terrorize people.....



Yet another person that doesn't know what the word "terrorism" means in a militaristic/combative sense.


----------



## maniclion (Sep 9, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Yet another person that doesn't know what the word "terrorism" means in a militaristic/combative sense.


terrorism
1. *a method of government* or of resisting government involving *domination or coercion by various forms of intimidation*, as bombing or kidnapping.
2. the state of fear and terror so produced. ??? terrorist, n., adj. ??? terroristic, adj.
See also: Politics

Coercing people to OBEY by torturing and killing non-conformers is terroristic...


----------



## Dark Geared God (Sep 9, 2010)

maniclion said:


> The Inquisition was Domestic Terrorism, boy did they terrorize people.....Some of the most disgusting methods of torture were born out of Christians thinking it was their right to punish those perceived as wicked, Iron Maidens, the rack, Judas' Cradle, spiked chairs, etc.....I'd rather die in a car bombing than be subjected to even an hour of those devices....


 what if you didn't die and just got your legs and arm blown off


----------



## DOMS (Sep 9, 2010)

maniclion said:


> terrorism
> 1. *a method of government* or of resisting government involving *domination or coercion by various forms of intimidation*, as bombing or kidnapping.
> 2. the state of fear and terror so produced. ??? terrorist, n., adj. ??? terroristic, adj.
> See also: Politics
> ...



So, the medieval crusaders were the government or citizen in the Middle East?  Okay...

Terrorism in the militaristic/combative sense, is when you target non-military populace in an attempt to get those people to withdraw their military forces.

There's a reason that we have a term such as "guerrilla warfare" in addition to "terrorism."


----------



## DOMS (Sep 9, 2010)

maniclion said:


> The Inquisition was Domestic Terrorism, boy did they terrorize people.....Some of the most disgusting methods of torture were born out of Christians thinking it was their right to punish those perceived as wicked, Iron Maidens, the rack, Judas' Cradle, spiked chairs, etc.....I'd rather die in a car bombing than be subjected to even an hour of those devices....



Your post makes it unclear if you think those devices were used in The Crusades.  If so, your post is full of shit.

Most disgusting methods of torture?  Yet another Western-centric, uniformed, post.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 9, 2010)

*Pastor nixes Quran-burning, claims NYC mosque deal 
*


----------



## Dark Geared God (Sep 9, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> *Pastor nixes Quran-burning, claims NYC mosque deal *


 well if true he won big.. if he didn't he lost big time


----------



## DOMS (Sep 9, 2010)

The Situation said:


> well if true he won big.. if he didn't he lost big time



Are you kidding?  Just because he didn't get on a rug and toss Allah's salad means that he's probably going to be attacked.


----------



## Dark Geared God (Sep 9, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Are you kidding? Just because he didn't get on a rug and toss Allah's salad means that he's probably going to be attacked.


 I'm not saying they won't try to get him but if he forced the nyc deal to move that a win..i just hear one of the owner of the property would sell it for the right price.. funny what if they are hustling like the jew create a stink then sell to a sucker for big $$$ 
on a side note he will be killed or hurt bad by the religion of peace


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 9, 2010)

there's more horse shit in that article than in the ok corral. 

if all the entities people pray to came to earth and formed a group and made peace among themselves do you believe man would follow suit and peace would reign on earth? 

is religion the problem or is man the problem? i don't think even the gods could keep the fucktarded from fighting.


----------



## Dark Geared God (Sep 9, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> there's more horse shit in that article than in the ok corral.
> 
> if all the entities people pray to came to earth and formed a group and made peace among themselves do you believe man would follow suit and peace would reign on earth?
> 
> is religion the problem or is man the problem? i don't think even the gods could keep the fucktarded from fighting.


 i got dibbs on the indian hindu god the cow them be some great burgers..


----------



## maniclion (Sep 9, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Your post makes it unclear if you think those devices were used in The Crusades.  If so, your post is full of shit.
> 
> Most disgusting methods of torture?  Yet another Western-centric, uniformed, post.


Whatever, you're just trying to argue for the sake of argument....

I only posted to add the atrocities of the Inquisition to LAM's post about the Crusades....

And yes they are some of the most disgusting forms of torture from that era...  Why do you think the expression, "Gonna go medieval on your ass"," holds merit...but what makes them so disgusting is that they were used in the name of god to force people to admit they were wicked, how wicked is that?


----------



## maniclion (Sep 9, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> there's more horse shit in that article than in the ok corral.
> 
> if all the entities people pray to came to earth and formed a group and made peace among themselves do you believe man would follow suit and peace would reign on earth?
> 
> is religion the problem or is man the problem? i don't think even the gods could keep the fucktarded from fighting.


Word!!!!

"Beliefs, they're the bullets of the wicked"


----------



## DOMS (Sep 9, 2010)

maniclion said:


> Whatever, you're just trying to argue for the sake of argument....



Both of my points are valid.  Just because you can't do jack to refute them doesn't do anything to their validity.



maniclion said:


> And yes they are some of the most disgusting forms of torture from that era...  Why do you think the expression, "Gonna go medieval on your ass"," holds merit...but what makes them so disgusting is that they were used in the name of god to force people to admit they were wicked, how wicked is that?


The reason that we have that term is because it's from _western _history.  Get it?

I'm not excusing what was done during the crusades.  My point was that non-Christians have killed more people and, secondarily, that the torture devices created in medieval Europe aren't in some league of their own.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 9, 2010)

DOMS said:


> You see what I did there?  It's called critical thinking.





critical thinking will not be acceptable in an online debate. I expect much more out of you DOMS. don't let this happen again. You will now go say 10 hail marry's as recompense


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 9, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> is religion the problem or is man the problem? i don't think even the gods could keep the fucktarded from fighting.



LOL. so true


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 10, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Show you a poll?  Show a _*fucking*_ poll?  Holy shit, you're in denial if you think that there was no difference in how Americans viewed Muslims before and after 9/11.
> 
> It's not like your holding back data or using a method of arguing (such as the straw man).  You're outright just...sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "na-na-an."
> 
> It's rare that I give up on an argument, my record shows that, but if you're willing to go that far, so be it.



Of course there is before and after, I thought you referring to immediately after 9/11 and today.  I read it as 9/12/01 and 9/9/10, got my numbers mixed up.  The point is, of course the attitude towards muslims changed, and the attitude changed towards muslims and the religion of Islam.  So how is that not a religious issue?  And I am not saying that only Christians are angry with Muslims, I am saying ignorant people will project their anger on the religion, just like ignorant people would project the pedophilia issue to Catholics.  It's the same thing, it's wrong on both sides, but it is the same thing.  Ask a Muslims or Catholic which one is more atrocious and neither will say they are equally atrocious, but they are.  If you could separate yourself from your religious bias you could see that.  State sponsored terrorism and covering up the finger-blasting of thousands of young boys and then just moving the priests around from parish to parish are just about equal in my mind, call me crazy, but it is.


----------



## maniclion (Sep 10, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Both of my points are valid.  Just because you can't do jack to refute them doesn't do anything to their validity.
> 
> 
> The reason that we have that term is because it's from _western _history.  Get it?  *I find that to be a black mark on Western societies history, all those non-christians you keep bringing up as having killed more people they don't boast that they are more civilized, they are near barbaric, plus I don't just accuse Christians, I criticize the whole Judeo-Christian-Islamic societies, the triumvirate of hypocrisy who claim to want peace, who pretend they are civilized and just want a prefect world yet continue to smack each other around like the three stooges.  Those third world people, they know they are living in a savage world they don't pretend they are waging wars in the name of some noble cause... *
> ...


Do we factor in all of the North and South American natives who were killed in the name of bringing the word of god to their savage lands?


----------



## LAM (Sep 10, 2010)

DOMS said:


> From 200K to 1.5 million?  Where did you find those number?  There so broad as to be meaningless.



blame the historians...who exactly was keeping a Census in medieval western europe?


----------



## LAM (Sep 10, 2010)

maniclion said:


> The Inquisition was Domestic Terrorism, boy did they terrorize people.....Some of the most disgusting methods of torture were born out of Christians thinking it was their right to punish those perceived as wicked, Iron Maidens, the rack, Judas' Cradle, spiked chairs, etc.....I'd rather die in a car bombing than be subjected to even an hour of those devices....



that is exactly my point about religious hypocrisy...apparently the people (such as the first Popes, etc.) did even buy the bullshit in the Bible or else how could they have did what was done back then?  Their actions (early Poples and Bishops) follow the behavioral  pattens of the psychopath more than the holly man.

* below is a quote from Friedrich Nietzsche

Christianity's Nature

The everyday Christian. -- If the Christian dogmas of a revengeful God, universal sinfulness, election by divine grace and the danger of eternal damnation were true, it would be a sign of weak-mindedness and lack of character not to become a priest, apostle or hermit and, in fear and trembling, to work solely on one's own salvation; it would be senseless to lose sight of ones eternal advantage for the sake of temporal comfort. If we may assume that these things are at any rate believed true, then the everyday Christian cuts a miserable figure; he is a man who really cannot count to three, and who precisely on account of his spiritual imbecility does not deserve to be punished so harshly as Christianity promises to punish him.

from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human, s.116, R.J. Hollingdale transl.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 10, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Are you kidding?  Just because he didn't get on a rug and toss Allah's salad means that he's probably going to be attacked.



He is saying that there is a good chance that the pastor made half of that shit up, because everyone involved in the meetings says pastor Jones is lying. This could really damage is credibility and is 15 minutes of fame.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 10, 2010)

the pastor maybe should have made an appeal to the public to buy out the buildings via donations? the voice of America could be heard in that. money talks here and often public sentiment and right or wrong don't mean as much as cold hard cash.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 10, 2010)

*Wall Street Journal: World Forum Burning the Quran is opposed by Obama, majority of Christians and leaders worldwide.
*



*Burning the Quran is opposed by Obama, majority of Christians and leaders worldwide.*

   Tropoje, Albania: Burning the Quran is opposed by Obama, majority  of Christians and leaders worldwide said Albanian Minerals President. 
 Mr Mujaj said "Burning the Quran and the calls that Islam is a  religion "of the devil," by a Church is extremely offensive and very  dangers. The church in Gainesville, Florida, plans to host an  "International Burn a Quran Day" on the ninth anniversary of the  September 11, 2001, attacks. Burning the Quran it will create a severe  damage to Christian and Islam relations. Burning the Quran *will be used  as a pretext by terrorist groups and extremist for more killings" .  *

 Albanian Minerals President said "Burning the Quran will be used to  brainwash millions of young Muslims and turn them against America. The  1.5 billion Muslims believe the Holy Quran is the living word of God.  Burning the Quran would represent the highest level of religious  discrimination to its followers worldwide and 7 million American Muslims  in US".  

"I am Muslim American with infinite love for USA, and I agree with  the Church in Florida to protest against terrorism I want 1.5 billions  Muslims to protest against terrorism to. It is are constitutional right  to do so. Quran burning is the act of one man and his 50 followers .  This ridicules actions should not be identified with the American  people, ore Christianity".  

 Mr Mujaj said *"Muslims worldwide are making a big mistake by  calling to kill Christian's and innocent people, because of this action.  God have promised in the Quran that is his book and God will protect  the Quran. God doesn't need Muslims to kill innocent people to protect  the Quran. Burning the Quran will create much, much more terrorist's and  thousands of innocent people with get killed". *

"Thousands of innocent people killed this year from religious  bigotry and radicals. Religious bigotry is the world's greatest danger.  

 By President & CEO 
Albanian Minerals  
New York


----------



## AKIRA (Sep 10, 2010)

Honestly, fuck what Obama bin Laden says.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 10, 2010)

I just thought of a great idea: Holy Rolls! It is toilet paper that has religious text on it. You could buy the Torah, King James Bible, The Book Of Mormon, Quoran, ect. You can wipe your ass with the holy text of whatever religion you respect the least. 

I could make millions from this idea. If I didn't think I would be bombed, I would totally make this product.


----------



## MDR (Sep 10, 2010)

KelJu said:


> I just thought of a great idea: Holy Rolls! It is toilet paper that has religious text on it. You could buy the Torah, King James Bible, The Book Of Mormon, Quoran, ect. You can wipe your ass with the holy text of whatever religion you respect the least.
> 
> I could make millions from this idea. If I didn't think I would be bombed, I would totally make this product.



Tough call, but I'll take a case of The Book of Mormon.


----------



## MDR (Sep 10, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> the pastor maybe should have made an appeal to the public to buy out the buildings via donations? the voice of America could be heard in that. money talks here and often public sentiment and right or wrong don't mean as much as cold hard cash.



I read somewhere that Donald Trump tried, but his bid was rejected.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 10, 2010)

MDR said:


> I read somewhere that Donald Trump tried, but his bid was rejected.



yes because it was ridiculously low.


----------



## MDR (Sep 10, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> yes because it was ridiculously low.



He's probably running short after all that money spent on hair gel.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 10, 2010)

maybe he planted a seed idea though. buy the building people.


----------



## MDR (Sep 10, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> maybe he planted a seed idea though. buy the building people.



Seems like the American way.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 10, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Of course there is before and after, I thought you referring to immediately after 9/11 and today.  I read it as 9/12/01 and 9/9/10, got my numbers mixed up.  The point is, of course the attitude towards muslims changed, and the attitude changed towards muslims and the religion of Islam.  So how is that not a religious issue?  And I am not saying that only Christians are angry with Muslims, I am saying ignorant people will project their anger on the religion, just like ignorant people would project the pedophilia issue to Catholics.  It's the same thing, it's wrong on both sides, but it is the same thing.  Ask a Muslims or Catholic which one is more atrocious and neither will say they are equally atrocious, but they are.  If you could separate yourself from your religious bias you could see that.  State sponsored terrorism and covering up the finger-blasting of thousands of young boys and then just moving the priests around from parish to parish are just about equal in my mind, call me crazy, but it is.



Alright, I'm going to try one more time.  I'll make it as clear as I can.

pedophile priests equate to terrorist hijackers
Vatican equate to terrorist organization
other Christians equate to the other Muslims

- The pedophile priests and terrorist hijackers both committed atrocities

- The Vatican and the terrorist organization both supported and covered for their offenders.

- The difference is that the other Christians denounced the priests' actions and went after them. No non-Vatican Christian supported the pedo priests actions. Whereas many of the other Muslims failed to denounce the act, did nothing to go after them (if they were in their own country), or openly praised them.

I can't make it any clearer than that.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 10, 2010)

maniclion said:


> Do we factor in all of the North and South American natives who were killed in the name of bringing the word of god to their savage lands?



Go ahead, it makes no appreciable difference in the balance for many reasons.  Not the least of which is Sub-Saharan Africa. Have you ever wondered why there were no major civilizations there until the westerners showed up?  It's because that place has been, is, and probably always will be, a murder machine.  I've already given one example.

The 20th century saw killing in other areas by non-Christians on a horrible scale.  Mao Ze-Dong: 78 million.  Jozef Stalin: 23 million. Adolf Hitler: 12 million.  That's 113 million people that died as the result of just three non-Christians.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 10, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Go ahead, it makes no appreciable difference in the balance for many reasons.  Not the least of which is Sub-Saharan Africa. Have you ever wondered why there were no major civilizations there until the westerners showed up?  It's because that place has been, is, and probably always will be, a murder machine.  I've already given one example.
> 
> The 20th century saw killing in other areas by non-Christians on a horrible scale.  Mao Ze-Dong: 78 million.  Jozef Stalin: 23 million. Adolf Hitler: 12 million.  That's 113 million people that died as the result of just three non-Christians.



Yeah, but God killed everyone but Noah with the flood. So, technically God is the biggest killer in history. Just something to think about.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 10, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Yeah, but God killed everyone but Noah with the flood. So, technically God is the biggest killer in history. Just something to think about.



"Yeah, but they were all bad."


----------



## KelJu (Sep 10, 2010)

DOMS said:


> "Yeah, but they were all bad."



Ha, isn't that an Arnold quote from a movie?


----------



## DOMS (Sep 10, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Ha, isn't that an Arnold quote from a movie?



_True Lies_, motherfucker!

Such a great movie.  It was an over the top action flick, but nearly everyone (even the bad guys) had humanizing touches.






YouTube Video











I really, really liked the head bad guy.





.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 10, 2010)

DOMS said:


> _True Lies_, motherfucker!
> 
> Such a great movie.  It was an over the top action flick, but nearly everyone (even the bad guys) had humanizing touches.
> 
> ...



I knew it was, I just couldn't name the movie. I was thinking kindergarten cop.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 10, 2010)

that was such a great fcking line. awesome.


----------



## MDR (Sep 10, 2010)

KelJu said:


> I knew it was, I just couldn't name the movie. I was thinking kindergarten cop.



Movies tend to run together for me a bit sometimes, too.  Probably early dementia.  Of course, I'm old enough to remember when the first Conan movie came to the theaters.  Stood in line for Rocky, too.  Man, I am older than dirt.  That is all.


----------



## Dark Geared God (Sep 10, 2010)

KelJu said:


> I just thought of a great idea: Holy Rolls! It is toilet paper that has religious text on it. You could buy the Torah, King James Bible, The Book Of Mormon, Quoran, ect. You can wipe your ass with the holy text of whatever religion you respect the least.
> 
> I could make millions from this idea. If I didn't think I would be bombed, I would totally make this product.


 You know what i want to do get all the books torah bible quoran and burn them all for the media what could they say then? you burned all of them


----------



## Dark Geared God (Sep 10, 2010)

MDR said:


> Movies tend to run together for me a bit sometimes, too. Probably early dementia. Of course, I'm old enough to remember when the first Conan movie came to the theaters. Stood in line for Rocky, too. Man, I am older than dirt. That is all.


 shoot you must be in your late 40's


----------



## maniclion (Sep 10, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Go ahead, it makes no appreciable difference in the balance for many reasons.  Not the least of which is Sub-Saharan Africa. Have you ever wondered why there were no major civilizations there until the westerners showed up?  It's because that place has been, is, and probably always will be, a murder machine.  I've already given one example.
> 
> The 20th century saw killing in other areas by non-Christians on a horrible scale.  Mao Ze-Dong: 78 million.  Jozef Stalin: 23 million. Adolf Hitler: 12 million.  That's 113 million people that died as the result of just three non-Christians.


Your views of sub-saharan africa are so western-centric it boggles the mind, Africa has had many civilized cultures, whole kingdoms, in Ghana, Mali, Nigeria, Kenya, Somalia....how about the Nubians, the Nok, Ajuuraan, Aksum, Abssynians of Ethiopia, Queen of Sheeba.....and on and on...Yeah they got some problems right now but thats from developed nations going in a stealing their resources, Sudan oil and blood diamonds...all of those ex-colonies dumped by the Italians and British to fend for themselves with no structure left in place, I give countries like Kenya and Nigeria credit for trying to keep it together....


----------



## Dark Geared God (Sep 10, 2010)




----------



## DOMS (Sep 10, 2010)

maniclion said:


> Your views of sub-saharan africa are so western-centric it boggles the mind, Africa has had many civilized cultures, whole kingdoms, in Ghana, Mali, Nigeria, Kenya, Somalia....how about the Nubians, the Nok, Ajuuraan, Aksum, Abssynians of Ethiopia, Queen of Sheeba.....and on and on...Yeah they got some problems right now but thats from developed nations going in a stealing their resources, Sudan oil and blood diamonds...all of those ex-colonies dumped by the Italians and British to fend for themselves with no structure left in place, I give countries like Kenya and Nigeria credit for trying to keep it together....



Yeah, I know all about that, but I'm only going to bother with Nubia as an example.  They were not a major civilizations.  Just because you get enough together to trade or farm does not make you a major civilization. Nubia was a smallish trade nations that routinely got its butt kicked when ever the Egyptians got bored.  

The only civilizations that amounted to anything were those that were influenced by the Arab nations.  Most of them were merely trade nations, aboslutely tiny be western standards.



maniclion said:


> Yeah they got some problems right now but thats from developed nations  going in a stealing their resources, Sudan oil and blood diamonds...all  of those ex-colonies dumped by the Italians and British to fend for  themselves with no structure left in place, I give countries like Kenya  and Nigeria credit for trying to keep it together....



And...you're an apologist asshat.  

For some self-flagellating reason, you like to believe that all their problems are the white man's fault.  As a white man who's studied history, I say, "fuck you."

The Africans killed each other off for as far back as written or archaeology records exist.  They killed each other continuously, until the Europeans showed up and laid down a new law.  Granted, the locals were treated as a second class, but the killing subsided.  Then the Europeans left and the killing and raping recommenced.

Stealing their resources?  Unless you have proof that the west has a western military force controlling things and forcibly taking resources, you're full of shit.  Instead, the west buys from Africans.  How the Africans treat each other is their own fault and custom.  So the Africans enslave their own people to mine diamonds? Whoopdie-fucking-do.  They've been enslaving their own people for millennia.  Hell, there are 1.8 million slaves in Niger right now. Not 100 years ago, but _right now_.  But I'm sure that's the West's fault...  As in the enslaving (and eating) of the pygmies in the Congo, which has gone on ever since the eastern-based African's showed up in the Congo; long before the Europeans arrived.

You see what I did there?  I pointed out that you're full of shit.


----------



## Glycomann (Sep 10, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Alright, I'm going to try one more time.  I'll make it as clear as I can.
> 
> pedophile priests equate to terrorist hijackers
> Vatican equate to terrorist organization
> ...



I never saw a Catholic priest or the Vatican:

1. Fly a plane into a sky scraper
2. Fly an airliner into a 5 sided building
3. Bomb a Jewish wedding
4. Bomb a Jewish night club
5. Bomb British trains
6. Bomb an American Embassy
7. Stone a woman to death for having premarital sex with her fiance.
8. lop of a starving man's hand for stealing a loaf of bread
9. Beat a woman for failing to clean his pants
10. Put out a hit on an artist for drawing a picture
11. Put out a hit on a man for writing unflattering about Islam 
12. Lop off a man's head because his beard was too short
13. Rip out a woman's nose and ears as a sacrifice on Eid ul Adha
14. Instituted a pogrom against Orthodox Armenians
15. Murder 16,000 Greeks in Eastern Thrace
16.  Bomb a nightclub in Bali
17. Enslave Sudanese non-Muslims in the 21 century
18. Take hostages at an Olympic event


----------



## MDR (Sep 10, 2010)

The Situation said:


> shoot you must be in your late 40's



You know that because you, like me, are also older than dirt.  And I'm just short of 44, just so you know.


----------



## maniclion (Sep 10, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Yeah, I know all about that, but I'm only going to bother with Nubia as an example.  They were not a major civilizations.  Just because you get enough together to trade or farm does not make you a major civilization. Nubia was a smallish trade nations that routinely got its butt kicked when ever the Egyptians got bored.
> 
> The only civilizations that amounted to anything were those that were influenced by the Arab nations.  Most of them were merely trade nations, aboslutely tiny be western standards.
> 
> ...


I'm supposed to feel put in my place by a confirmed bigot?  It wasn't too far back that Europeans were doing the exact same shit to each other while the Arabs were the ones acting civilized and as you say helping the Africans develop by establishing trade.

You can't honestly tell me that Africa doesn't suffer some of their problems because of the darkness of their skin.....

Before the Romans arrived people all over Europe were doing some horrible things to each other.  And take recent activities in Serbia,Bosnia, etc.  mass graves, rapings, mutilation of corpses, all sorts of atrocities....people who are poor beyond all hope do these things to one another it's not a cultural thing


----------



## TheGreatSatan (Sep 10, 2010)

Fuck the Quran. I'd blow my load in it's pages, set it on fire, then piss out the flames. The double standard is fucking rediculous. Muslims could shit on everyone's beliefs and there's no complaints. Bibles can get burned, statues of Christ and Mary can be pissed on and no one would give a rats ass. But draw a cartoon of Muhammed and get killed and have your business burned down.

*Fuck Muslims, Fuck Muhammed, Fuck the Quran, Fuck the Middle East.*

We should nuke their asses and turn the whole damn area into a sheet of glass. Then maybe put a Walmart there or something else useful.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 10, 2010)

TheGreatSatan said:


>


----------



## Dark Geared God (Sep 10, 2010)




----------



## vortrit (Sep 10, 2010)

The Situation said:


>



Yeah, but earlier in the thread you were very specific when you stated


----------



## DOMS (Sep 11, 2010)

maniclion said:


> I'm supposed to feel put in my place by a confirmed bigot?  It wasn't too far back that Europeans were doing the exact same shit to each other while the Arabs were the ones acting civilized and as you say helping the Africans develop by establishing trade.



Nice a red herring.  None of what you posted it relevant to the fact that Sub-Saharan Africa has never had a major civilization.



maniclion said:


> You can't honestly tell me that Africa doesn't suffer some of their problems because of the darkness of their skin.....



No, it's the culture.  But wait, below you state that it just can't be.  So, I guess that the mass murder and rape that's gone on there since time began, and still goes on there even in this day age, must be caused by something else.  Maybe it was the Europeans showing up 3000 years ago.  Nah, it's gotta be something in the water.



maniclion said:


> Before the Romans arrived people all over Europe were doing some horrible things to each other.  And take recent activities in Serbia,Bosnia, etc.  mass graves, rapings, mutilation of corpses, all sorts of atrocities....people who are poor beyond all hope do these things to one another it's not a cultural thing



All the shit that goes on in the rest of the world pales in comparison to what goes on in Sub-Saharan Africa.  5.8 million people died in one country alone (the Democratic Republic of the Congo) in just the last 12 years.  Where else in the world is that happening?  There's a war in Iraq, using the best of modern weapons of war, and the death toll there is a small fraction of that amount.

You obviously know jack shit about Africa.

Back to the top of Christians supposedly causing more deaths that anyone else.  If you can't understand basic math and world history, there's nothing I can do for you.


----------



## Diablo1990 (Sep 11, 2010)

TheGreatSatan said:


> Fuck the Quran. I'd blow my load in it's pages, set it on fire, then piss out the flames. The double standard is fucking rediculous. Muslims could shit on everyone's beliefs and there's no complaints. Bibles can get burned, statues of Christ and Mary can be pissed on and no one would give a rats ass. But draw a cartoon of Muhammed and get killed and have your business burned down.
> 
> *Fuck Muslims, Fuck Muhammed, Fuck the Quran, Fuck the Middle East.*
> 
> We should nuke their asses and turn the whole damn area into a sheet of glass. Then maybe put a Walmart there or something else useful.




I second this to the fullest.


----------



## soxmuscle (Sep 11, 2010)

vortrit said:


> Yeah, but earlier in the thread you were very specific when you stated



Haha.

What percentage of the Situations posts have only this emoticon?  It's got to be pretty high.


----------



## TheGreatSatan (Sep 11, 2010)

50%


----------



## vortrit (Sep 11, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> Haha.
> 
> What percentage of the Situations posts have only this emoticon?  It's got to be pretty high.



82.3 %


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 11, 2010)

define civilized? i think 50 people that are shitting in the woods and eating bugs and berries who treat each other and their fellow earthlings with kindness would be more *civilized* than 5,000,000 people with modern amenities who need a child protective services, pedophile registry and laws to tell them not to fuck farm animals. who has the most or coolest stuff or people is irrelevant. that worse stuff happens doesn't excuse any atrocity. 

and why the hell is this so much about religion? is anyone even asking themselves how many men have no god? the guy that cut his wife's nose and ears off did it cuz he is a sick freak, religion was just his excuse. men would treat each other bad for gain, power, amusement etc even if no concept of god ever existed.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 11, 2010)

DOMS said:


> 5.8 million people died in one country alone (the Democratic Republic of the Congo) in just the last 12 years.  Where else in the world is that happening?



why aren't we helping out there?


----------



## TheGreatSatan (Sep 11, 2010)

It's all us Godless people who aren't psychopaths.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 11, 2010)

i have rainbow unicorn psychopathy. i wish people could just fucking stop fighting and be decent to one another.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 11, 2010)

I just read, at NY Times, that there were pro-mosque supporters rallying today near ground zero. Oh yes, those rag heads are really showing how they're a friendly and understanding religion.

The Middle East really, really needs to be reduced to a field of glass.  It's look better and be more useful than it is now.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 11, 2010)

that's just fucking sickening they would do that today. it honestly makes me feel nauseous.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 11, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> why aren't we helping out there?



Because you can't force change in a place that bad. The entire first-world has thrown money at that place since the late 70s, and it hasn't made any difference.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 11, 2010)

it's depressing. overwhelmingly so.


----------



## TheGreatSatan (Sep 11, 2010)

I hope it does get built and then someone locks the doors and burns it down with all those camel-jockeys inside


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 11, 2010)




----------



## bio-chem (Sep 11, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> and laws to tell them not to fuck farm animals.



Gaz is just misunderstood. stop being mean LW.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 11, 2010)




----------



## Dark Geared God (Sep 11, 2010)

See the movie chalie wilsons war..true shit i bet they wish they could have gave th million for the education program


----------

