# wrong hgh dosage or bad genetics?



## P-do (Apr 12, 2011)

hi, I got some questions about using hgh.it´s not that I look too bad, even doing competitions in the lightest body building class, it´s just I wont get that big as I wanna be.
I´m 26 years old and right now 84 kilos with 8-9 % body fat, preparing for competition in june. It´s the first time using pharma hgh. a year ago did some chinese stuff but didn`t gain a pound, so I will never go back to that fake stuff. so I spent extra money for pharma hgh and now use it for 4 months. the problem is, I`m from germany and we don´t have that much big guys around here...so if you meet one there are two possibilities. the first is you get a wrong answer because they want to be one of the only big guys OR they just tell you to take more stuff and eat more cause they have great genetics and it works for them. so I tried that nearly 4 months ago...I did 6500 kcal a day but just got fat... in that time I used 750 mg test enanthat/w, 50 mcg T3, 2 x 10 iu insulin and for the first 2 month 2 ui hgh, in the 3rd 3 iu and now 4 iu hgh. I got up to 97 kilos but looked just like a fatty...so I decided to start my diet and preparing for the comp...I just don´t know what to do...is it really possible to have such bad genetics that I won`t grow even with all that stuff??? when i started to train, I was like 52 kilos (yeah I know a toothpick  ). after a year I began to take test,deca,d-bol,tren (not all at the same time,just over the years) till i got up to 72 lean body mass..but is this the end??? 
I hope some of you guys knows what to do...thanx for your help


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## World-Pharma.org (Apr 12, 2011)

post your gear pics...what brand hgh you take?

most important in BB is diet!


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## P-do (Apr 12, 2011)

I only use pharmacy stuff..all things are german brands.the hgh ist omnitrope from sandoz. waht do you mean with diet...as I wrote I did 6500 calories only with good protein,carbs and fat. about 5 grams/kg protein,6 grams/kg carbs and 1.5 - 2 grams/kg good fat...no fast food,no alcohol,no smoking...


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## Digitalash (Apr 12, 2011)

I don't think its possible that you've maxed out your potential at that weight, even without gear. If you're preparing for a comp then you will see how much of what you gained is muscle, its very possible its more than you think but your bf% makes it hard to tell. Personally I'd skip the comp for now, just cut down slowly until you're like 10-15% and then start bulking again. Do it slower and cleaner this time though, no sense eating so much that you gain a ton of fat IMO. You should still have the potential for a lot of natty growth, so with gear you should still be making very good gains. I don't know much about gh/igf/ghrp etc. so I won't speculate there. But I agree with world-pharma, diet is just as important as training so make sure its on point. I'm personally not a fan of huge bulk diets, so I would keep it clean and eat 500ish above your maintenance, better to gain muscle a little slower and stay fairly lean IMO.


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## P-do (Apr 12, 2011)

I know what you mean, but it´s not that I don´t know what, how or when to eat. I started with 52 kilos (not 100% ripped) and after nearly 4 years getting ripped with about 72 kilos (competition weight)...it´s just I stuck there...no matter what gear, training plan or diet plan...I defently am a hardgainer but I hope to find a way to get big even than...


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## P-do (Apr 12, 2011)

anyone who knows about using hgh for getting big???


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## redz (Apr 12, 2011)

> anyone who knows about using hgh for getting big???


I dont think 4ius is going to be the right dose for that.


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## P-do (Apr 12, 2011)

ok,so what would be the right dosage for that???


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## Mudge (Apr 12, 2011)

No matter how high your doses and how high your calories, muscle doesn't get built overnight for MOST people. It sounds like you are relying on drugs making the fast gains, and don't have your diet in tune yet, because you would know you can't just bump up to 2500 calories or whatever over maintenance, and not expect to get fat.

Everything takes time, for a guy to get to 260 ripped in even 10 years time is considered a great accomplishment.

Also, knowing your height would give better clues as to your current development, are you 1.4 meters or 2.0 meters? Big difference.

For getting big, GH should be one of the LAST items on your list. Many people get impressively large never touching the stuff, if you aren't closing in on being the local Arnold, you probably don't need it yet. Drugs dont make the gains, time and intelligence do, along with genetics of course. Good genetics make it easy, bad genetics require intelligence to overcome.


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## P-do (Apr 13, 2011)

sorry, forgot to tell...I´m 170 cm...and it´s not that I just bumped up 2500 calories at once. and it´s like I allready gained some muscles. as I said i started with about 52 kilos, skinny but not ripped, and allready did competitions with 72 kilos ripped (I even did the first place)....so I gained about 25 kilos. and that´s good but I´m stuckin there for over one year now. and just to tell, I am a certified personal trainer so I generally know about diet and training, and I allready helped others to get bigger, but it just won´t work for me. and even as a cpt (at least in germany) you don´t learn a lot about gear. but I  learned from books and some self-experiments but still don´t grow.so I decided to take hgh, insulin and T3 combined with testo as I know that´s very potent...but nevertheless I don´t feel much difference...SO as you can see (I hope) I did a good job till now but it seems I need help from that on.


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## Delawerebadboy (Apr 13, 2011)

I was stuck at 179 pounds@ 5"10  9% BF for a year could not gain another pound ,took if easy went to three days a week. Instead of 5 days training ,and I have started gaining rapidly,also it could be 8 ius of hgh now I'm almost 190


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## XYZ (Apr 13, 2011)

Mudge said:


> No matter how high your doses and how high your calories, muscle doesn't get built overnight for MOST people. It sounds like you are relying on drugs making the fast gains, and don't have your diet in tune yet, because you would know you can't just bump up to 2500 calories or whatever over maintenance, and not expect to get fat.
> 
> Everything takes time, for a guy to get to 260 ripped in even 10 years time is considered a great accomplishment.
> 
> ...


 

This is the answer.

The other issue is your diet.  You're not eating enough of the right things or too many bad things.  Post up your diet.

Insulin 2 times a day at 10ius a pop is going to help you get fat......quick.


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## P-do (Apr 13, 2011)

I don´t get the point...what do you mean with bad diet??? NEVER fastfood oder bad things...at least 5 gr protein per kg and depending on preparing for competition or trying to get big carbs between 1,5 to 6 or even 7 gr per kg (rice,potatos,pasta,oat). only good fat...enough omega 3 etc. so what do you mean???as I wrote I am a certified personal trainer an I´m strict to my diet...EVERY DAY...
@ Delawerebadboy 
this is the question...is it the 8 iu or the less training???


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## yerg (Apr 13, 2011)

Why is it never the diet!????


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## P-do (Apr 13, 2011)

maybe it is...just tell me what is wrong???or what you think would be a good one?


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## XYZ (Apr 13, 2011)

GH is not the answer to your problems.  It doesn't work like that.

You're not getting bigger because of your diet PERIOD.  

AGAIN, post up your bulking diet so we can SEE what you're consuming on a daily basis.  No matter what else you say nothing really matters if we don't see your dialy diet.


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## P-do (Apr 13, 2011)

ok..you want me to put up the diet plan when I got fat or right now preparing for comp?


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## XYZ (Apr 13, 2011)

P-do said:


> ok..you want me to put up the diet plan when I got fat or right now preparing for comp?


 

Whatever you used for not getting bigger.


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## P-do (Apr 13, 2011)

typical training day:
1000g lowfat quark
450g oat
200g whey protein
200g rump steak
125g rice
600g potatos
100g maltodextrine
15g bcaa
20g glutamine
pre workout with 125 kcal
150g tuna
130g canola oil (don´t know if this translation is correct)
20g salmon oil
these are 6200 calories...
no training nearly the same but without maltodextrine but 30g more fat...
that was with about 96 kilos


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## tupin (Apr 13, 2011)

Have you calculated your BMR and TDEE? Just eating a ton of calories is not the answer to getting big. If you want to get big with HGH it's going to cost you a pretty penny. You need to be at 8iu/ed to 10iu/ed to get bigger. You stack the HGH with Test and your calories and you're going to get good results.


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## Mudge (Apr 13, 2011)

P-do said:


> maybe it is...just tell me what is wrong???or what you think would be a good one?



There is no "good diet" except the one that works for YOU. Its not that people say you are eating fast food, you can eat at home and have a "bad diet." If you are getting fat, you have a bad diet, it means you are eating more than you can turn into muscle OR your macros are incorrect for YOU. Most 80 or 90 percent of people who try to grow on steroids/juice run into these issues eventually, so don't feel too badly, not many people just explode in the gym without trying.

Plus, you started very small, so it sounds like you have small bone structure and tough genetics to overcome, kinda like Dante/Doggcrap who started at something like 117 pounds and eventually touched right around 300 pounds in decent shape.

Raise calories slowly and pay attention to your macros, obviously growing clean weight is tough for you at your point in development, that means the diet is to blame long before pointing at GH which is only a small helper 'drug.' It is also possible your training needs a change, I got to an over 400 pound bench on low volume, but to REALLY grow I found out high volume actually worked for me (or increaced training frequency). I think your approach needs fine tuning, a generic answer like "your GH is bad" or "you got ripped off" isn't going to be accurate, you have a more complex situation where you say you have the personal trainer background to make the right changes, but somehow you are missing something.

Post some info, sit back, and pretend you are helping a client who is missing something in the puzzle.


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## P-do (Apr 14, 2011)

I think now the thread is kinda getting in the right direction  thanx for that...
maybe it is the point with the correct diet for ME, but I changed a lot (over a year) before I started to try it with a huge amount of calories. I did less protein (3g/kg) and more crabs...or no carbs more fat and protein... or all well mixed....but nothing seemed to work.I even played a little with the calories, not that much but between 400-700 calories difference...NOTHING...I also changed al lot of training. Single chest, back, shoulders, legs, arms every muscle once a week... than chest/bizep, back, shoulder/trizep, legs once in a week... than I switched the arm parts so I had chest/tri, back, shoulder bizep, legs once in a week...right now doing chest/shoulders/tri, back/neck/bizep, legs 5-6 times in the week so sometimes a workout twice (I hope you know what I mean) after 3 weeks I do a extra arm day (arms are my weak point)...after 3 month I turn back for about 3 weeks to one of the earlier plans,to get a change...I do everything in it...the first exercise for each muscle group heavy (2-6 reps), then some mid (8-15) and in the end some pumping with about 20 or even more reps. earlier I did one week heavy,next week mid....but that didn´t seem to work for me...so when I combine the different reps in every training it´s good.
and I think the point with the bone structure is very important. because even with all the changes plus testo, some d-bol, deca etc. I didn´t change!!! and that over more than a year...and THAT was the point when I thought, I reached my genetic limit (at this point allready gained that 25 kilos lean muscles which is a lot for my bodytype) so I have to try some new and read alot about hgh plus slin,testo and t3...I know that it does take time (and hgh at least 6 month) but the question is can I grow with that and how...beacuse till now it seemed like nothing...


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## P-do (Apr 14, 2011)

any opinion?


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## ROID (Apr 14, 2011)

you are wasting your money with the growth.


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## WendysBaconator (Apr 14, 2011)

P-do said:


> sorry, forgot to tell...I´m 170 cm...and it´s not that I just bumped up 2500 calories at once. and it´s like I allready gained some muscles. as I said i started with about 52 kilos, skinny but not ripped, and allready did competitions with 72 kilos ripped (I even did the first place)....so I gained about 25 kilos. and that´s good but I´m stuckin there for over one year now. and just to tell, I am a certified personal trainer so I generally know about diet and training, and I allready helped others to get bigger, but it just won´t work for me. and even as a cpt (at least in germany) you don´t learn a lot about gear. but I learned from books and some self-experiments but still don´t grow.so I decided to take hgh, insulin and T3 combined with testo as I know that´s very potent...but nevertheless I don´t feel much difference...SO as you can see (I hope) I did a good job till now but it seems I need help from that on.


 
I am going to give you my honest honest opinion. It seems to me like youre relying on drugs to gain muscle. The reason i say this is because you said after a year of training you got up to what ? 70 somethng kilos ? and then started cycling? Whether you wanna hear it or not, your diet is definitely out of tune. If youre taking drugs and you cant grow, something needs to change. Maybe you should take a step back and learn how to hold onto your muscle mass naturally than incorporate drugs into your regimen. Im not against AAS, Slin, or HGH; but i am against it when someones using it as a shortcut. I got up to about 210lbs. (95kg) before i even considered touching my first steroid. Im doing a show in about a year and a half and i havent done an AAS run in about 10months and i dont plan on doing it until my contest prep.

Im not saying im some kind of genetic freak, because im truly not, but theres a sense of discipline & knowledge gained when you max out your potential naturally. Just my two cents.


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## P-do (Apr 14, 2011)

I respect your opinion, but it´s just not like that. maybe I messed up the times a little so I repeat...NOW I´m 26, I started training with about 17 or 18 with about 52 kilos.at that time I only trained for like girls, beach or something like that. so even when I trained there I don´t count that.with 19 I met a guy who was into competition so I wanted to do the same. I trained for one year nearly without resultation, so I tried AAS with about 20 (maybe to early, who knows) and gained over 4 years 25 kilos of pure lean muscles. before my first comp and the diet I was like 86 kilos.after some competitions I wanted to get bigger because IMO 72 kilos is not big enough, so I tried to get big with AAS, different plans, different diets, but didn´t get bigger over a year. so that was the reason to try something new and because I´ve read about gh, slin etc I wanted to try it...so what to blame me for???


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## P-do (Apr 15, 2011)

just to let you know how I looked like with 71,8 kilos so that you know what I mean with I want to get bigger but  (IMO) don´t look too bad


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## Glycomann (Apr 15, 2011)

I am a pretty hard gainer.  What worked for me is really doing the basic compound movements hard and heavy and keeping protein intake high.  
squats
dead lifts
bench press
incline press
military press from rack
barbell rows

Do these for a year with little else so you can concentrate on getting the weights to increase.  Don't worry to much about BF unless you get over 15%. IMO you just need to specialize by concentrating on the big compound lifts.  They are great size builders and make the body produce all the right factors for growth. Then it's just a matter of eating the right foods for you and getting enough rest. You should be getting 40-60 g of protein 5 times a day.


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## sassy69 (Apr 15, 2011)

Just a note about gh as I'm not totally clear what your expectation was of it --  it is NOT an anabolic. Competitors usually use it conjunction w/ anabolics. On its own its not really going to "make you grow". I honestly don't know how much you can get from 8 ius w/o any anabolics. GH promotes "youth" - i.e better recovery, promotes lean muscle mass over bodyfat but is still not an anabolic. Generally it just allows your body to do what it does, better.. .but it is still not an anabolic so you really can't expect growth from it. It would support a great diet & training program and probably allow better recovery,  better sense of well-being, etc. .But it is not an anabolic.

In terms of issues w/ it - some people retain water on it. Doses > 4 iu can tend to promote joint pain similar to carpal tunnel -people say over time you can learn to deal w/ it. The water retention may or may not come with it - if it does, then for competition you would want to drop it a good 10-14 days before your show so it doesn't interfere w/ your water manipulation.


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## P-do (Apr 16, 2011)

I know that´s not anabolic (or not that much) on it´s on. but the combination with slin, T3 and testo should, according to the books I read, raise the igf1 even more than it would do by inserting igf 1 itself. and as we all know igf1 is super anabolic. that was my thought about taking hgh....


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