# Keto:  WTF am I doing wrong?



## dogsoldier (Aug 17, 2011)

I have been doing the cyclical keto plan for about 4 weeks.  Up to the beginning of this week, I was dropping like gang busters.  In three weeks, I lost about 20 pounds. I understand that the 10 pound was water and crap.  Last Friday was a carb up and just can't seem to get off the go mark now.  My nutrients numbers are running roughly 60% Fats, 15% carbs (green veggies and what come from the food) and 25% protein.

My diet has been limited to beef, pork, chicken, whole dairy, milk cheeses, eggs, spinach, broccoli, protein powder with water or milk and so on. I am also running a 500 - 800 calorie deficit. 

I lift hard 3X a week and am doing HIIT 3X a week for 20 minutes.

I'm just stumped.


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## squigader (Aug 17, 2011)

dogsoldier said:


> I have been doing the cyclical keto plan for about 4 weeks.  Up to the beginning of this week, I was dropping like gang busters.  In three weeks, I lost about 20 pounds. I understand that the 10 pound was water and crap.  Last Friday was a carb up and just can't seem to get off the go mark now.  My nutrients numbers are running roughly 60% Fats, 15% carbs (green veggies and what come from the food) and 25% protein.
> 
> My diet has been limited to beef, pork, chicken, whole dairy, milk cheeses, eggs, spinach, broccoli, protein powder with water or milk and so on. I am also running a 500 - 800 calorie deficit.
> 
> ...



Drop the milk, I've heard of it kicking people out of keto. Try adjusting your deficit around. Eat A LOT of carbs on refeeds (every 7-10 days), enough so you get temporarily kicked out of keto. Stay off the starchier veggies (looks like that's not a problem for you though?).

Is the problem getting kicked out of keto mode, or are you definitely in keto and you're not losing weight?


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## ExLe (Aug 17, 2011)

Try dropping your fat intake to %35 and up your protein to %50 for a week and see if the weight starts to drop.

 Remember to keep your carbs under 50 for the day. Some people are carb sensitive some are fat sensitive. You can only find out by trial and error.

 If you are fat sensitive you might be better off doing low fat about (about 30-40g and low to moderate carbs (100-150g).A plus is your workout will be more intense with some carbs in you allowing you to burn more daily and not feeling like a keto slug. 

Good luck


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## ThreeGigs (Aug 18, 2011)

3500 calories in a pound of fat.
7 days in a week.
500 calories a day times 7 days = one pound of fat per week.

Don't expect to lose more than a pound a week.

To retain muscle, don't have a deficit larger than 30 calories per pound of body fat you have at any moment. i.e. if you weigh 180 and are 10% fat, you have 18 lbs of fat so your max deficit should be 18 x 30 = 540 calories a day.

And don't forget your keto is cyclical, so your weight numbers will by cyclical too. Expect them to go up after a carb refeed.


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## Life (Aug 18, 2011)

Milk has sugar in it. Either drop it out or drink a minimal amount. If you're using it to liquify shakes you're taking in too much. You want to keep carbs below 30g/day, not counting fiber.


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## gym66 (Aug 18, 2011)

check out you protein powder lower your fats up your protein.  and have 400-1000 carbs with hardly no fat and your required amount or protein on your carb ups.  I did mine every 7 days I went from about 30 percent body fat to 9 this year with a keto diet.


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## dogsoldier (Aug 18, 2011)

I like the idea of upping the protein and lowering the fat. I have a hard time eating that much fat, be it cheese, or sour cream.  I am carb sensitive so that must be watched closely. Let's see how things go on a 50% protein, 45% fat, 15% carbs.

AS far as the carb refeeds, trust me I do well on those days. Whole wheat pasta with home made marinara sauce last week, it was a joy not to eat meat for one day.  I also hit the wheat bread pretty hard. This Saturday we are going to an all you can eat salad, soup, pasta and all sorts of other things place. I plan on being thrown out by the owner.


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## Built (Aug 18, 2011)

Carbups should be carbs and protein, with very little fat. Stick to white starches, especially for the beginning of the carbup. 

How many calories are you running during the week? How many grams of protein, carb and fat? How often are your carbups and how many grams of protein, carb and fat do you consume on your carbups?


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## gym66 (Aug 19, 2011)

IMO you need a mix fast acting and complex carbs on carb up day. so i doubt you are getting enough carbs in with pasta alone.  It is about impossible to get your carb needs with out some sugar.  protein, carbs, limited fat (50g) on carb up day. and eat your green veggies.


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## SumMiscGuy (Aug 21, 2011)

Keto is the hardest diet ever.  You're better off just making sure you hit your protein requirements and focusing on cals in vs cals out

Thats how it was for me anyway.


50th post baby!!!


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## Dannie (Aug 21, 2011)

Thats too much carbs. With them you aren't actually achieving ketosis. 
Try 75% fats 25% Protein  an NO CARBS at all, dont even use whey (as most of them have 15g of carbs / 100g).


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## gym66 (Aug 21, 2011)

I agree but I still use eggs they have 1 carb. green leafy veggies, and nuts all have carbs.  mostly fiber but not all. these will not kick you out of keto.  unless you can find whey with carbs id ditch it. and stay under cals


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## Built (Aug 21, 2011)

SumMiscGuy, you think keto diets are hard? Seriously? I was fat for years and I lost the weight doing keto. Easiest diet I ever did. 

Dannie, that's pretty much how I did keto the first time, but you don't have to go that high on the fats to make it work. Tasty though!


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## Dannie (Aug 21, 2011)

Built said:


> Dannie, that's pretty much how I did keto the first time, but you don't have to go that high on the fats to make it work. Tasty though!



1st time I did keto I did 60% fat 40% protein - Didnt loose fat but regained some of the muscles I've lost on 2000 cal 80% protein 10% fat 10% carbs diet 
2nd time I was on keto I did the above (75%Fat  25%Protein) noticed some good fat loss with no muscle loss 


Blood glucose meter / monitor is very useful while on keto.


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## Built (Aug 21, 2011)

Dannie said:


> 1st time I did keto I did 60% fat 40% protein - Didnt loose fat but regained some of the muscles I've lost on 2000 cal 80% protein 10% fat 10% carbs diet
> 2nd time I was on keto I did the above (75%Fat  25%Protein) noticed some good fat loss with no muscle loss
> 
> 
> Blood glucose meter / monitor is very useful while on keto.



You gained muscle on 2000 calories a day. How much weight did you gain?


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## Dannie (Aug 21, 2011)

Built said:


> You gained muscle on 2000 calories a day. How much weight did you gain?


I said that I regained what I've lost on 2000kcal 80%protein 10%fat 10%carbs diet. 

I've lost 15lbs in a month, 3/5ts of it was muscles. -My 1st cutting approach .


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## Built (Aug 21, 2011)

You're not really making much sense. I'm getting the notion that you cut on 2000 calories a day and dropped a bunch of muscle. Now you're gaining muscle back. 

I don't know how else to interpret what you wrote. 

How about this. While dropping weight... 

When did you start the first cutting approach?
What did you weigh when you started?
What did you weigh when you finished?
How tall are you?
What macros did you run for this month? (grams protein, carb and fat, total calories - don't bother with the percentages, I want to see the grams)
How did you train for this month where you dropped 15 lbs?

While gaining muscle... 

How are you eating now? (total calories, grams protein, carb and fat)
How are you training now?
How long have you been doing this?
How much has your weight changed since you've been gaining the muscle back?


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## Dannie (Aug 22, 2011)

Yo, I just said I've lost 15lbs while on 2000kcal diet  Around 3/5s of the weight loss was muscles. 

Then I switched on Keto where @ 3600kcal a day. Didnt loose fat but managed to regain muscles I've lost while on 2000kcal diet.


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## Built (Aug 22, 2011)

How much weight did you gain on 3600 calories? Over what time?


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## Dannie (Aug 22, 2011)

During the 4 weeks of 2000kcal cut I went 225lbs to 210lbs  - lost around 6lbs of fat and 9 lbs of muscles. 

Then during 5 weeks of 3600kcal keto I went back to 225lbs staying at the same body fat. 



Then I did proper keto 75%F 25%P which got me down to 205lbs @10% body fat.


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## Built (Aug 22, 2011)

Dannie said:


> During the 4 weeks of 2000kcal cut I went 225lbs to 210lbs  - lost around 6lbs of fat and 9 lbs of muscles.
> 
> Then during 5 weeks of 3600kcal keto I went back to 225lbs staying at the same body fat.
> 
> ...




Okay, so you cut on 2000 calories and dropped 15 lbs. I don't know how you determined you lost six pounds of fat and 9 pounds of muscle, but moving along you then increased your calories to 3600 and say you regained 15 lbs of muscle in 5 weeks, am I getting it so far? 

Now, from the 225 lbs you reached after the five weeks of keto, how long did it take you to get to 205 lbs on "proper keto", and how many calories did you consume over this time?


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## Dannie (Aug 22, 2011)

Built said:


> Okay, so you cut on 2000 calories and dropped 15 lbs. I don't know how you determined you lost six pounds of fat and 9 pounds of muscle, but moving along you then increased your calories to 3600 and say you regained 15 lbs of muscle in 5 weeks, am I getting it so far?
> 
> Now, from the 225 lbs you reached after the five weeks of keto, how long did it take you to get to 205 lbs on "proper keto", and how many calories did you consume over this time?



A loss 9lbs of muscles and 6lbs of fat was deducted from my lifts, size and body fat percentage  


It took me around 10 weeks on proper keto ie Body Opus @ 2700kcal to get down where I am now. 
I started doing recomp now and I am preparing to a bicycle trip on carb cycling diet  Should loose some more fat cycling 60 miles every other day for 12 days


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## Built (Aug 22, 2011)

Dannie said:


> A loss 9lbs of muscles and 6lbs of fat was deducted from my lifts, size and body fat percentage


Your lifts won't tell you shit about body composition. Weight and bodyfat percentage will though. How was your bodyfat assessed, and were you depleted or carbed up at the time?


Dannie said:


> It took me around 10 weeks on proper keto ie Body Opus @ 2700kcal to get down where I am now.



So you lost 20 lbs in 10 weeks on 2700 calories. If you only dropped fat, your maintenance is 3700 calories a day. I somehow doubt it, given your earlier cutting results. 


Dannie said:


> I started doing recomp now and I am preparing to a bicycle trip on carb cycling diet  Should loose some more fat cycling 60 miles every other day for 12 days


Don't count on it. If you don't eat enough to compensate for the activity, you can expect to lose muscle on this much endurance work while hypocaloric. 

Just sayin'. You'll lose fat, too, but you'll definitely lose muscle.

I'm still interested to know how you figure you gained 15 lbs of muscle in five weeks.


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## caaraa (Aug 22, 2011)

Try dropping your fat intake to %35 and up your protein to %50 for a week and see if the weight starts to drop.


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## dogsoldier (Aug 22, 2011)

I'm running between 2500 and 2700 with a 500 -700 calorie deficit.  I am tracking my calories and macro's using Diet Power.  I have adjusted my numbers to 50% protien, 35% fats and 15% carbs. We will see what happens.If this doesn't work, is it advisable to take the carb up out further that 7 to 10 days?


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