# bulking cutting .. wtf??



## autodad (Sep 16, 2011)

ok i dont get it, your telling me I gotta bulk or cut? I can't just build lean muscle? Everyones either bulking or cutting. I'm 32 6' 187lbs 18%bf and I wanna be 200+ and about 12%bf... I can't just do that? I gotta get big first then cut my bodyfat? 

Here's what I'm doing... 

work out 6 days a week. 

cycling 4iu's hgh (5/2)

400mg test weekly

50g dbol daily
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7am-wake up, have a protien shake 

8:30-go lift

10:00-protien shake after i lift

12:00-lunch (chicken&rice or salad soup something healthy)

3:00-shake

6:00ish- dinner steak chicken soup something healthy

weekends i may cheat on my diet a bit but i dont pig out much at all. 

...am i not gonna get bigger and have less bf? do i need to intake 4k calories a day untill i hit 220 then cut ta 210? is that how it works? is that the only way? ...am I pretty much just gonna hang around 190's if i continue on my current diet path?


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## Night_Wolf (Sep 16, 2011)

Is possible to gain lean muscle and cut fat at the same time.

What I would do for you is do a clean bulk. Than when you finish and reach your target weight, I would do a cut, and it will be much easier because you did clean bulk and have gained minimum fat.

Btw, your nutrition is not that great. 

Can you write your entire cycle layout with PCT? (duration, AI, PCT etc.)


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## Retlaw (Sep 16, 2011)

Try getting a job !   JUST fucking lift, forget about cutting, bulking !


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## autodad (Sep 16, 2011)

Night_Wolf said:


> Is possible to gain lean muscle and cut fat at the same time.
> 
> What I would do for you is do a clean bulk. Than when you finish and reach your target weight, I would do a cut, and it will be much easier because you did clean bulk and have gained minimum fat.
> 
> ...




6months hgh 4iu's a day 5/2 (starting my 4th week)
-----------------------------------
12 weeks test-c 400 mg a week (starting my 2nd week)

8 weeks dbol 50g a day (starting my 2nd week)

(was just gonna do the hgh but decided to add the test and D)

Exemestane for AI and pct also adding clomid 2 weeks after my last Test-c injeciton for pct as well. 

...Whats wrong with my diet shit all i eat is shakes and meat... I don't even drink beer anymore LOL.

EDIT: I"m not looking to be so cut you can see every vain in my abbs, I just dont want a gut while trying to gain some strength and muscle... If I could be 205 and no gut when this cycle is done I'd be happy. as of right now I dont really have a gut just no lower abbs and I dont have those cable like veins i want so bad. Hopping to lower the bf a little to achieve that look while getting bigger.


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## dsc123 (Sep 16, 2011)

what do your macros look like? by the looks of things your calories look very low


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## autodad (Sep 16, 2011)

dsc123 said:


> what do your macros look like? by the looks of things your calories look very low




whats a macro? LOL? 


...Im very new at this bro, before this i was in the army. push up sit ups run-repeat. haha.


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## Digitalash (Sep 16, 2011)

Bro you shouldn't be using AAS if you don't understand these concepts. I'll try to lay out the basics but you should check out the diet section.

It is possible to gain muscle and lose fat for someone very new to lifting, or on high enough dosages/strong enough AAS. Either way the results will not be optimal. You need an excess of calories to build muscle, you need to be in a deficit of calories to lose fat. Obviously you can't be both at the same time, and while "bulking" you will gain some fat. While "cutting" you will lose some muscle. 

Your bodyfat is kinda high, especially to be cycling. I would cut first, reduce your calories a few hundred below maintenance. If you go too low you will lose much more muscle. Get down to sub 15% at least [I'd say more like 12%] and then begin a slow clean bulk. Again bulking too fast will mean gaining alot more fat. Keep your protein intake high regardless, adjust your "macros" or macronutrients to meet the calories you require. 

For a natty who's been lifting for a while, you simply will not gain any muscle if you're not eating enough. You will not lose fat if you're eating too much. If your weight isn't changing and you're eating the same, this is your caloric "maintenance", or the amount of calories you require to stay where you're at. Surplus to gain, deficit to lose.


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## Night_Wolf (Sep 16, 2011)

autodad said:


> whats a macro? LOL?
> 
> 
> ...Im very new at this bro, before this i was in the army. push up sit ups run-repeat. haha.



Macros - Protein, Carbs, Fats.

I would use Dbol for 8 weeks. 6 weeks max. After you stop, get some Liv52 or milk thistle for your liver.




Do it like this dude:

7:00-150g oatmeal + 1.5 scoop whey

8:30-Lift

10:00-1.5 scoop of whey+45g of maltodextrin or waxy maize (30g of malto+30g of dextrose is better)

12:00-200-250g chicken + 150g rice

3:00-chicken or steak + 100g rice/400g potatoes/100g pasta + salad

6:00-200-250g steak + salad with 1 tablespoon of olive oil

9:00-cottage cheese+2 tablespoon of flax oil


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## autodad (Sep 16, 2011)

Digitalash said:


> For a natty who's been lifting for a while, you simply will not gain any muscle if you're not eating enough. You will not lose fat if you're eating too much. If your weight isn't changing and you're eating the same, this is your caloric "maintenance", or the amount of calories you require to stay where you're at. Surplus to gain, deficit to lose.





That explains why i have been staying the same... Well I'm determined to get bigger and like I said I'm not so fat I got a beer belly or anything (size 32) I just dont have lower abs or nothing. I will read up on nutrition but i never paid much attention other then cake and beer is bad... I mean I just started eating healthy a couple years ago. before 25 it didnt seem to matter what I ate, I was a 150 soaking wet. I hit 26+ and holy shit did i get fat... lost the weight awhile back and even got some muscle going now. I just want more of it... It works out I guess, I'll bulk now and cut in the summer. Thanks for the info guys, guess i got even more reading to do. 

and hey man don't get the wrong idea digi, I'm not a fat ass lol, no lower abbs but  got a decent core, ...I use to be fat as f*ck but now I got some muscle  going on and Im one of those guys who get's into shit. I can't do  nothing half way. so now I want to be even stronger and healthier... been going off bro science untill now.... If anyone needs me I'll be in the diet section reading.


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## Digitalash (Sep 16, 2011)

haha no offense meant bro, and no 18% is not that bad. It's just reccomended to be sub 15% when using AAS, the more fat you carry the more you will convert to estrogen, which will lead to worse side effects and more fat gain. Plus I'm kinda OCD about bodyfat, I don't feel comfortable over like 14% so my opinion might be different than others.

To simplify it as much as possible, find out your maintenance. Track your calories for two weeks or so and if your weight doesn't change you know your maintenance. Keep your protein intake high and add some fat/carbs each week until the numbers start going up. Try to make the majority of your carbs "complex" rather than simple, things like oats, brown rice etc. rather than white bread or sugar lol. It's perfectly fine to eat a bit "dirty" as long as you accout for those calories. You can lose weight eating cake and icecream as long as you're under maintenance, your results won't be optimal but it can still be done. If you're having trouble eating enough in clean foods then throw in a tad bit of junk to make up the excess. Moderation is key of course, but if you get too caught up in trying to eat all your cals from chicken and rice chances are you're not going to end up eating enough.


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## troubador (Sep 16, 2011)

This should be a documentary.


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## unclem (Sep 16, 2011)

dont worry just eat 6-7 times day and set alarm for 3am to get in yogurt and spoonful peanutbutter and back to bed and just bulk up then cut but you cant have the best of both worlds. then when cutting just eat clean , alot of h2o, organ protectors and lay off the dbol to 25mged your bf is to high now. but thats up to u. use t3, epi, t4 to cut up with not dnp its dangerous. try metformin, youll be pumped all day long and wont wake up flat either. i use it w/ slin but the met is best. i only use 5ius slin ed after w/o. try met first its oral slin. up your test to 800mg week but drop dbol to 25mg and add met youll be on your way. but its up to u.


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## big60235 (Sep 16, 2011)

Digitalash said:


> Bro you shouldn't be using AAS if you don't understand these concepts. I'll try to lay out the basics but you should check out the diet section..





autodad said:


> That explains why i have been staying the same... Well I'm determined to get bigger and like I said I'm not so fat I got a beer belly or anything (size 32) I just dont have lower abs or nothing. I will read up on nutrition....If anyone needs me I'll be in the diet section reading.



I have to say Autodad I thought this was going to go a whole different direction... Usually people ask a question and don't like the answer so in the end they just do what ever they want anyway. Way to take the advise you asked for and listened to even a part of it. 

I would suggest that you stay away from looking to much at numbers. Keep an eye on body fat % and the mirror. To many people get hook on weight or dream weight. Also don't let your waist get out of control when bulking it is hard to get it back. I'm 245 with a 33/34 in waist but when I have billed in the past I have let it go to 38 and had to cut so hard that I lost a bunch of muscle will cutting.


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## autodad (Sep 17, 2011)

big60235 said:


> I have to say Autodad I thought this was going to go a whole different direction... Usually people ask a question and don't like the answer so in the end they just do what ever they want anyway. Way to take the advise you asked for and listened to even a part of it.
> 
> I would suggest that you stay away from looking to much at numbers. Keep an eye on body fat % and the mirror. To many people get hook on weight or dream weight. Also don't let your waist get out of control when bulking it is hard to get it back. I'm 245 with a 33/34 in waist but when I have billed in the past I have let it go to 38 and had to cut so hard that I lost a bunch of muscle will cutting.




holy shit your 245 with a 33" waist... ? excuse me while I rant a bit


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