# One more question please W8



## Fitgirl70 (Mar 28, 2002)

Weight 140lb
Height 5'3"
Age 35 (36 in may)  25 at heart!


Above are my workout partners stats, she wants to know what her diet should be for fat loss.  You can look at my workouts in my journal to see what her workouts look like because we do the same thing (we workout together).  

Her diet lately has looked a little like this:
Myoplex in the morning after her workouts
Oatmeal for her breakfast
an RTD for her midmorning snack
lunch with is usually steamed chicken, rice and veggies or like yesterday for lunch she had the same as me.
She usually has rice cake and pb for mid afternoon snack
She'll have chicken and rice or veggies -- something of the sort for dinner.

She doesn't know how to do her carbs or how much protein she should be taking in or how much fats for that matter.   Can you give me some pointers to give to her. 
Thanks again
Fitgirl70


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## Fitgirl70 (Mar 28, 2002)

can anyone else answer this for my friend??


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## Robboe (Mar 28, 2002)

Why does she not count calories?


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## craig777 (Mar 28, 2002)

I know that Rice Cakes are high GI, so eating them with Peanut Butter is not a good thing to do. Have her eat PB with celery if she wants to eat peanut butter.


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## w8lifter (Mar 28, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Fitgirl70 *_
> can anyone else answer this for my friend??



Very sorry Fitgirl....I've been rather busy!

Actually, the PB will reduce the insulin response of the Rice cakes...but, she really shouldn't have them at all. Those would be one of the worst things to eat!

It's a little hard to critique this w/o srving sizes.

Is the myoplex & oats eaten at the same time?

What's an RTD?

If you give me a sec, I'll come back w/ a better meal plan for her.
...going to check your journal.



> Her diet lately has looked a little like this:
> Myoplex in the morning after her workouts
> Oatmeal for her breakfast
> an RTD for her midmorning snack
> ...


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## Robboe (Mar 28, 2002)

No offense Craig, but anyone who uses GI to state a point needs shagging up the arse with the wide end of a blower's trumpet.

Too many factors affect GI, not to mention that the GI was derrived by using 50g worth of carbs of food. Why does that make it ridiculous? Well, for one example, who eats 50g worth of carbs in the form of say apple? that is a lot of apple.

GI should be a guideline that is not taken very seriously.


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## Robboe (Mar 28, 2002)

btw, as offensive as that post seems, i just find that blower's trumpet expression horrendously hilarious. It's really for my benefit only


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## w8lifter (Mar 28, 2002)

.....be nice or I'll kick your ass boy!


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## Robboe (Mar 28, 2002)

Sorry Dominatrix Leah.


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## w8lifter (Mar 28, 2002)

Damn Straight! 

Fitgirl....I am assuming your friend is eating very similar to you. I checked your journal.  You're still eating far too much sugar, not enough calories and virtually no fat!

Is your friend willing to cut sugar and learn how to eat properly? There's a sticky at the top of the nutrition forum. I think you both would benefit from reading the links inside!


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## craig777 (Mar 28, 2002)

OK, hows this no GI.

Fitgirl,

I did the Body for Life thing last year starting in February. If you can do this for 12 weeks it will work.

Breakfast
6 egg whites, 1/2 cup (prior to cooking) plain cooked oatmeal (not instant)

Mid morning
1 cup brown rice, 6 oz chicken breast

Lunch after workout
Meal replacement

Mid afternoon
1 cup brown rice, 6 oz chicken breast

Dinner
Veggies (broccoli, or something like)
6 oz chicken breast

Pre bed
Protein drink in skim milk

Replace chicken breast w/ Salmon sometimes
or brown rice w/ wheat pasta

Every saturday I would treat myself to ice cream or some pizza.

In 12 weeks lost 24 lbs and my muscle mass seemed to increase more than it had in 20 years of lifting.

No GI in that at all.


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## w8lifter (Mar 28, 2002)

Where's the fat?

Still has sugar!

And IMO too many carbs!


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## craig777 (Mar 28, 2002)

You are carb phobic.


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## w8lifter (Mar 28, 2002)

Nope...just sugar phobic....and you (and many others) are fat-phobic!


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## bubbasr (Mar 28, 2002)

I do know that 15 grams of carb is 1 carb count you have to read every label and see what the serving size is. I don't eat anything with more than 3 gram's of suger except natural fruit.
Eat lot's of lean meat chicken,fish, tuna and pork. Also for a snack
triscuts about 10 is ok. Use good judgement and remember if you want to be at say 100lb's you need to drink 100 oz's aday of water.


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## Fitgirl70 (Mar 28, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Why does she not count calories?




she does, I got her started on Fitday.com


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## Fitgirl70 (Mar 28, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> Damn Straight!
> 
> Fitgirl....I am assuming your friend is eating very similar to you. I checked your journal.  You're still eating far too much sugar, not enough calories and virtually no fat!
> ...



thanks W8, actually, I copies the one on fat loss tips and sent it to her.   Read it myself too.   Hope you don't mind?
We are both willing to cut sugar and learn how to eat properly!! ABSOLUTELY!!!!!  

I'm going to check out the rest of them.
Thanks for your help.   Anything else would be much appreciated.


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## Robboe (Mar 28, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Fitgirl70 *_
> 
> 
> 
> she does, I got her started on Fitday.com



Excellent. Now the simple part: tell her to eat less than she burns.

Obviously there's a little bit more to it than that, but this is the general gist. I'm sure reading whatever sticky W8 told you to read will clear anything else up.


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## w8lifter (Mar 28, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> 
> Excellent. Now the simple part: tell her to eat less than she burns.



Yes, except that, I think they're both eating far too few calories as it is! I'm sure I saw an 1100 figure in that journal! She's at 140lb! it's not enough Fitgirl.....your metabolism is on it's way to screwed if it's not there already!

For comparison's sake, I'm 110 right now, started this cut at 115, I generally take in around 200 grams protein, 60-80 grams FAT, 30-80 grams of carbs depending on if I'm zig-zagging or not!

Still looking for something will be back in an hr!


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## Robboe (Mar 28, 2002)

I'm kinda swaying in the direction of cyclical carb diets. The more i think about them the more they make sense.


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## w8lifter (Mar 28, 2002)

Okay, here's a plan!

Meal 1: 35 g protein, 30 gram carbs, 10 gram fat

Meal 2: 35 g pro, 10-15 gram fat...can have veggies

Meal 3: 30 g pro, 20-30 gram carb, 10 gram fat

Meal 4: 30 g pro, 20-30 gram carb, 10 g fat

Meal 5: 35 gram pro, 10 g fat...can have veggies

Meal 6: 35 g pro, 15 g fat 


This will bring your calories up to an acceptable level, harden your physique, & control your insulin to keep you at optimal fat-burning levels.

Protein sources:

chicken/turkey breast, whey protein, lean beef, tuna, salmon, fish, eggs

Fat sources: 

Flax seed oil, Heavy whipping cream, olive oil, safflower oil, full fat mayo, Oil&vinegar dressing, Natural p/b, egg yolk

Carb sources:

Old fashioned oats, sweet potato, brown rice, dark green leafy veggies, apples, strawberries/blueberries, grapefruit,

Thoughts....questions....feedback????


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 29, 2002)

w8, you may want to start them on a little higher, more nutrient dense program, since you are ridding sugars!

I would go transition, even though they say they are ready, there will be cheats or cravings (You know about cravings, don't you?)

Then after a  week or two  transition, 3-5 weeks of  a slightly larger program, tweek to this, then a zigzag. LOOKOUT swimsuit season!


FC

p.s  That is a damn good program, bet it only took a minute to create!


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## w8lifter (Mar 29, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Fat Cell *_
> w8, you may want to start them on a little higher, more nutrient dense program, since you are ridding sugars!
> 
> I would go transition, even though they say they are ready, there will be cheats or cravings (You know about cravings, don't you?)
> ...



 Actually....it took forever to find! I knew I'd posted it recently and who for...funny thing is..I don't even know my own number!

Okay...I still have this problem w/ being to strict  Will come back w/ something better!


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## Tooolguy (Mar 29, 2002)

confusing...I'll need to read alot of back posts to better understand....it seems my lowfat high carb diet is outta whack! 
(I'm fairly new to the nutrition side of things)


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## w8lifter (Mar 29, 2002)

FC?



> Then I would like to suggest a few things:
> 
> Drink even more water than it suggests on the diets.
> 
> ...


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## Fitgirl70 (Mar 29, 2002)

Hey W8, I copied that diet that you posted above and I'm going to send it to my friend.   I'm going to work on following that more too.

What did you mean when you said that my metabolism is "on its way to screwed, if it isn't already."

I'm guessing whatever you mean is what my problem is and has been all along.   I'm by no means fat and I have lost a little since starting that Challenge and the challenge with my friend at the gym.   I've even tightened up a little, I can already tell.   Maybe you could help clear up a bunch of my problems???   I would sure appreciate it so much.


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## w8lifter (Mar 29, 2002)

> What did you mean when you said that my metabolism is "on its way to screwed, if it isn't already."



Well, by not eating enough calories your metabolism will slow, your body will try to hold onto as much fat as possible. This is why people who only eat one meal a day or skip meals such as breakfast can still be overweight.


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## Robboe (Mar 29, 2002)

Yeah, she's right.



if you ever get to the point of total stagnation then do one thing: take a shower. lol. j/k.

seriously tho, spend five days eating high carbs - particularly starchy carbs (and/or glucose). Carbohydrate metabolism boosts leptin production and the carbs will also convert inert T4 into metabolism-boosting T3. I'd guess that if you did reach total stagnation in your diet that your T3 levels will be pretty much screwed.

Not only will carb overfeeding help, the fact that you're overeating calories again will make your body think it's no longer in "starvation mode" and may actually be willing to drop some fat again...


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 31, 2002)

I'll take it a step further for everyone.

Conversion of T4 to T3 and Reverse-T3: A Summary
The thyroid gland secretes mostly T4 and very little T3. Most of the T3 that drives cell metabolism is produced by action of the enzyme named 5'-deiodinase, which converts T4 to T3. (We pronounce the "5'-" as "five-prime.") Without this conversion of T4 to T3, cells have too little T3 to maintain normal metabolism; metabolism then slows down. T3, therefore, is the metabolically active thyroid hormone. For the most part, T4 is metabolically inactive. T4 "drives" metabolism only after the deiodinase enzyme converts it to T3. 

Another enzyme called 5-deiodinase continually converts some T4 to reverse-T3. Reverse-T3 does not stimulate metabolism. It is produced as a way to help clear some T4 from the body. 

Under normal conditions, cells continually convert about 40% of T4 to T3. They convert about 60% of T4 to reverse-T3. Hour-by-hour, conversion of T4 continues with slight shifts in the percentage of T4 converted to T3 and reverse-T3. Under normal conditions, the body eliminates reverse-T3 rapidly. Other enzymes quickly convert reverse-T3 to T2 and T2 to T1, and the body eliminates these molecules within roughly 24-hours. (The process of deiodination in the body is a bit more complicated than I can explain in this short summary.) The point is that the process of deiodination is dynamic and constantly changing, depending on the body's needs. 

Under certain conditions, the conversion of T4 to T3 decreases, and more reverse T3 is produced from T4. Three of these conditions are food deprivation (as during fasting or starvation), illness (such as liver disease), and stresses that increase the blood level of the stress hormone called cortisol. We assume that reduced conversion of T4 to T3 under such conditions slows metabolism and aids survival. 

Thus, during fasting, disease, or stress, the conversion of T4 to reverse-T3 increases. At these times, conversion of T4 to T3 decreases about 50%, and conversion of T4 to reverse-T3 increases about 50%. Under normal, non-stressful conditions, different enzymes convert some T4 to T3 and some to reverse-T3. The same is true during fasting, illness, or stress; only the percentages change--less T4 is converted to T3 and more is converted to reverse-T3.

The reduced T3 level that occurs during illness, fasting, or stress slows the metabolism of many tissues. Because of the slowed metabolism, the body does not eliminate reverse-T3 as rapidly as usual. The slowed elimination from the body allows the reverse-T3 level in the blood to increase considerably.

In addition, during stressful experiences such as surgery and combat, the amount of the stress hormone cortisol increases. The increase inhibits conversion of T4 to T3; conversion of T4 to reverse-T3 increases. The same inhibition occurs when a patient has Cushing's syndrome, a disease in which the adrenal glands produce too much cortisol. Inhibition also occurs when a patient begins taking cortisol as a medication such as prednisone. However, whether the increased circulating cortisol occurs from stress, Cushing's syndrome, or taking prednisone, the inhibition of T4 to T3 conversion is temporary. It seldom lasts for more than one-to-three weeks, even if the circulating cortisol level continues to be high. Studies have documented that the inhibition is temporary. 

A popular belief nowadays (proposed by Dr. Dennis Wilson) has not been proven to be true, and much scientific evidence tips the scales in the "false" direction with regard to this idea. The belief is that the process involving impaired T4 to T3 conversion--with increases in reverse-T3--becomes stuck. The "stuck" conversion is supposed to cause chronic low T3 levels and chronically slowed metabolism. Some have speculated that the elevated reverse-T3 is the culprit, continually blocking the conversion of T4 to T3 as a competitive substrate for the 5???-deiodinase enzyme. However, this belief is contradicted by studies of the dynamics of T4 to T3 conversion and T4 to reverse-T3 conversion. Laboratory studies have shown that when factors such as increased cortisol levels cause a decrease in T4 to T3 conversion and an increase in T4 to reverse-T3 conversion, the shift in the percentages of T3 and reverse-T3 produced is only temporary
--------------------------------

Notice the important words, fasting, stress, combat, CORTISOL!

FC


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## Robboe (Mar 31, 2002)

nice post.

Is that all off the top of your head?


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 31, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> nice post.
> 
> Is that all off the top of your head?



Thanks C-Daddy!  I would say it can from more around the middle front of the big head!  

FC!


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## w8lifter (Mar 31, 2002)

LOL!


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## Fitgirl70 (Apr 1, 2002)

*04/01/02*

Ahhhh........Happy April Fools Day peeps!!!!

W8 -- thanks for the information.   Both my workout partner and I are starting to change our eating habits today.  
Speaking of increasing calories; won't increasing my calories right now make me gain weight?  Especially when right now, I'm trying to lose weight?
Just questioning.   I guess all I've ever learned about how to eat and what to eat has been wrong.   Maybe I need more help than I thought I did.
I need to go post in my journal but I'll check back here soon.
Thanks again for your help.


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## w8lifter (Apr 1, 2002)

Think of it as re-setting your metabolism! It has to be done or you won't lose any fat in the future....When I started this diet, I was at 1500 cals, 50/30/20, p/c/f.....FC raised my cals to 1700-1900 and switched the breakdown to 50/10/40, w/ a carb-up day every 4th.....and I lost fat!


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## Robboe (Apr 1, 2002)

That's impressive shiat FC.


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