# blood pressure



## mattsilf (Feb 1, 2014)

Im currently in the middle of my first oral cycle. The past week I've been dealing with some high blood pressure. Ive cut out the caffeine thinking that was the root of it, but it didnt help much. I haven't actually had a blood pressure reading, but I know it's high. I know how my body reacts when it is. I don't have anything major going on, just enough to know that's what it is.
My question for you guys is this: what kind of supps have you used that actually work for high bp. Im taking hawthorne berry now, and bought garlic today. Ive read alot today and came across some other ideas, but its 50/50 with people saying if they work or not. Id like to hear the things you've used that show results.


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## Christsean (Feb 1, 2014)

Give blood and cialis works well for me also.


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## g0hardorgohome (Feb 2, 2014)

From herbal products I like celery seed extract more than hawthorn berry.


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## mattsilf (Feb 2, 2014)

Haha id rather be dealing with a boner problem than a bp problem, ill look into that. Which research brand of that do you guys vouch for as legit?....I read alot of good things about the celery seed extract as well. I was planning on picking some of that up.


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## Christsean (Feb 2, 2014)

My personal fave is BlueSky. I use it every day. But most any on this board is good.

You should give blood first to get it down, them keep it down with cialis.


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## 13bret (Feb 2, 2014)

OfficerFarva said:


> Cialis works really well but it's not fun having half a chub all day long than getting rock hard hardons for no real reason.



Ahh hhaaa hhaaa. True, but chicks at gym see that semi-wood and think you're hung like donkey

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## mattsilf (Feb 2, 2014)

Damn, I just put an order in with Blue Sky on friday. I shouldve asked for advice sooner. Thanks guys


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## sneedham (Feb 2, 2014)

I think CoQ10 should be used as well along with another supp such as cialis, etc.....D-bol always spikes my BP even at 30mg dont know exactly why, maybe just how I react.....


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## mattsilf (Feb 2, 2014)

I just bought some CoQ10 on my way home from the gym, going to start using that . I bought red yeast rice too, but now I read that can be rough on the liver, which I dont need while on an oral cycle


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## HamHands (Feb 4, 2014)

I have a genetic predisposition to high blood pressure. Even when I was 205, 8%bF @ 6'2" I had high blood pressure, and I'm talking age 24... I know your asking about natural supplements but... A Beta Blocker could do you worlds of good. Propranolol is cheap with insurance and almost any doctor will be willing to prescribe it to you... When my BP is really up I take Lisinopril, a diuretic that is a generic too along with the Beta Blocker. It brings me to 110 over 70, even under stress. Go and see your physician; if for nothing else but to get an accurate BP reading and to get checked out. Both medications are shown to be very safe and have been around/in use a long time. My prescriptions run $8 each per month. That's cheaper than a month supply of the CoQ10 I thought about trying before I went to the doctor. You asked for things that we know will work to bring your BP down to normal. I can vouch for both medications and I have had zero side effects from them... except for losing some excess water from the Lisinopril.(a damn good thing on steroids in my opinion)... Best of luck to you bro! Let us know what works...


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## Tyler114 (Feb 4, 2014)

OfficerFarva said:


> Cialis works really well but it's not fun having half a chub all day long than getting rock hard hardons for no real reason.




oh yes it is


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## mattsilf (Feb 4, 2014)

Thanks guys. The past day and a half, ive felt good again. Im going to order some cialis, just to have on hand if I feel shitty again


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## BigFucker (Feb 4, 2014)

Clonidine and hydroclorothiazide has worked well for me but you have to be careful as they both come with dangers. Specially beta blockers, such as clonidine and propanolol as mentioned above, as your body gets accustomed to the and may then have trouble regulating BP on its own. For this reason I'm actually looking to move away from these and try to get control through less drastic means.

So far been using Coq10, magnesium, taurine, and lots of water. Unfortunately this has not been enough. Thinking about adding HW Berry.

The cialis concept is clever haha. I never thought of it but it makes sense. Are there any significant risks with daily use of cialis? Specially to the baby maker... Thinking priaprism (sp?) risks??



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## sneedham (Feb 4, 2014)

BigFucker said:


> Clonidine and hydroclorothiazide has worked well for me but you have to be careful as they both come with dangers. Specially beta blockers, such as clonidine and propanolol as mentioned above, as your body gets accustomed to the and may then have trouble regulating BP on its own. For this reason I'm actually looking to move away from these and try to get control through less drastic means.
> 
> So far been using Coq10, magnesium, taurine, and lots of water. Unfortunately this has not been enough. Thinking about adding HW Berry.
> 
> ...


Are the BP meds something you use while on a cycle? Or do you really need them for a medical reason? Taurine is awesome for muscle cramps/back pumps..I believe it was christean who turned e on to that particular supp and it really works well...


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## Christsean (Feb 4, 2014)

Brother you need to give blood to get it stabilized them supplement. I use cialis with great success, but cialis wouldn't bring mine down once It was real high. You give a pint and you are good to go. Then work on keeping it down.


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## s2h (Feb 5, 2014)

BigFucker said:


> Clonidine and hydroclorothiazide has worked well for me but you have to be careful as they both come with dangers. Specially beta blockers, such as clonidine and propanolol as mentioned above, as your body gets accustomed to the and may then have trouble regulating BP on its own. For this reason I'm actually looking to move away from these and try to get control through less drastic means.
> 
> So far been using Coq10, magnesium, taurine, and lots of water. Unfortunately this has not been enough. Thinking about adding HW Berry.
> 
> ...



Clonidine and hctz is a pretty high end script for HBP...for some dealing with AAS induced HBP that maybe a bit of a overkill....thou 12.5mg hctz ed and 5-10mg cialis will help most cases...I never saw much from any herbal remedies...personally I have a script for losartan....works good.


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## BigFucker (Feb 5, 2014)

s2h- My guinea pigs doc told him to take half clonidine tab in the morining (50mg) and half at night to minimize risk or rebound bp. I then added htcz at 25 mg (small dose) because the beta blocker alone wasn't cutting it and I was afraid to go too high with the betas. I will unfortunately say that the aggressive protocol is partly bc for the first 15-20 years of cycling, my guinea pig was very negligent about bp issues and swept it under the rug. Now that he is older, it really worries him. Plus my gp is doing tren and fina is the  worst offender in the bp dept.

 How's losartan working for you? How do you take? Doesnt it have a short half-life? 

Guys who give blood, are you allowed to give on a cycle? If not, is it awkward giving blood when everyone can tell you are on something and you walk in there acting natural like you just sipped a bunch of muscletech to get that way?

Mattsf- my bro says he has good benefits from arginine. Personally I don't believe it's effective (at least in this context). But maybe it's something that works for you.  I am with s2h that the herbal remedies don't do much particularly in the context of AAS driven bp. But if you can stay away from the beta blockers by donating blood and/or taking boner pills, I would really urge you to do so my friend. Big old Fucker like me unfortunately has tried everything ( except giving blood or cialis) and only real meds work..





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## HamHands (Feb 5, 2014)

BigFucker said:


> *Clonidine and hydroclorothiazide has worked well for me but you have to be careful as they both come with dangers. Specially beta blockers, such as clonidine and propanolol as mentioned above, as your body gets accustomed to the and may then have trouble regulating BP on its own. For this reason I'm actually looking to move away from these and try to get control through less drastic means.
> *
> So far been using Coq10, magnesium, taurine, and lots of water. Unfortunately this has not been enough. Thinking about adding HW Berry.
> 
> ...



I use my Propanolol and Lisinopril both on and  off of a cycle and have for years. I've also went off of the Beta  blocker and Lisinopril for two months at a time and never experienced what you claimed in your statement; "_as your body gets accustomed to them and may then have trouble regulating BP on it's own._" and neither has my mother or brother(both of whom don't blast) when going off of the Beta Blocker and Lisinopril. Are you talking from experience taking the medications or is this something you've heard or read? While it probably has merit for someone who is of very poor health and in advanced age it is a rare side effect for your body not to go back to its normal homeostasis when concerning blood pressure, whether your homeostasis is 120/80 or 155/95... Both medications have been literally wonderful, life prolonging medications for me and have had zero side effects, either taking them regularly, or going off of them just to see if I don't need to take them anymore. I use them while cruising & blasting for what it's worth. If the OP has an underlying issue then he needs to go and get it checked out by his family physician. High blood pressure is nothing to play with; and while it may just be a side effect from the cycle he is on, it may not be, but knowing can prolong your life and certainly increase your quality of life for your lifetime...


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## HamHands (Feb 5, 2014)

Christsean said:


> Brother you need to give blood to get it stabilized them supplement. I use cialis with great success, but cialis wouldn't bring mine down once It was real high. You give a pint and you are good to go. Then work on keeping it down.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



This is some solid advice too. Giving a pint of blood will do wonders in the short term of the OP's blood pressure problem...


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## mattsilf (Feb 5, 2014)

Where do you go to donate blood? Wait for a blood drive or is there actually blood banks you can go to anytime?


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## s2h (Feb 5, 2014)

BigFucker said:


> s2h- My guinea pigs doc told him to take half clonidine tab in the morining (50mg) and half at night to minimize risk or rebound bp. I then added htcz at 25 mg (small dose) because the beta blocker alone wasn't cutting it and I was afraid to go too high with the betas. I will unfortunately say that the aggressive protocol is partly bc for the first 15-20 years of cycling, my guinea pig was very negligent about bp issues and swept it under the rug. Now that he is older, it really worries him. Plus my gp is doing tren and fina is the  worst offender in the bp dept.
> 
> How's losartan working for you? How do you take? Doesnt it have a short half-life?
> 
> ...



the losartan i take has a 9 hour half life...there was/were 2 versions of losartan at one time and the earlier version was real short if i recall..2-3 hours or something like that...i also take 12.5mg of hctz all in the am..thing you have to be careful about with hctz is getting gout...if you really need it and there is excess water that needs to be pulled off then its ok..but if somebody just takes it too stay "dry"..then it can bite em in  the ass..

as for giving blood..i give 3-4 times a year..my bp meds are scripted..you can also get a script to give blood..where it is not reused for any purpose and the center is aware of that..

my bp is fine on those scripts...my condition is hereditary so it doesn't matter too much on my physical condition as too what my bp is..


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## s2h (Feb 5, 2014)

mattsilf said:


> Where do you go to donate blood? Wait for a blood drive or is there actually blood banks you can go to anytime?



theres places all over too donate..warning-dont give em your real phone number..they will call you endlessly when the window is up and you can give again..as bad as telemarketers..


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## Christsean (Feb 5, 2014)

s2h said:


> theres places all over too donate..warning-dont give em your real phone number..they will call you endlessly when the window is up and you can give again..as bad as telemarketers..



^^^^this x10^^^^ they will worry the hide off your ear trying to get more blood.


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## BigFucker (Feb 5, 2014)

HamHands- the portion you quoted, while maybe not clear or eloquent, was mean't to say that your body gets used to beta blockers and you are not supposed to stop their use abruptly. Any doctor monitoring your beta blocker use will tell you that you need to taper before coming off, precisely because your body gets accustomed to, or dependent on, the beta blockers. This is from my doctor and the package insert of the meds. Just google beta blocker and taper and you will find a lot of legit sources explaining this phenomenon. Coming off can be tricky and dangerous if not done right- although much may depend on genetics and length of use, etc.

So the takeaway to the OP was meant to be that beta blockers usually work well while on cycle imo, but there are some possible side effect considerations that one needs to make. I would be reluctant to self medicate beta blocker (maybe just personal pref), but if you and your doc decide they are appropriate for your circumstances, my experience has been that it usually works well on cycle- tren and drol being the exceptions as they sometimes spike my bp even with some meds. 

Of course, everyone's experience is different, but it's good to hear folks' different experiences.

Hope this helps.


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## iFartGlitter (Feb 5, 2014)

This all depends on what is causing the bp. If it's vascular, vasodilators are recommended. If it's genetic and/or related to heart function, beta blockers could help, but you have to be very self aware because your bp won't increase under exertion and you can really fuck yourself up if you overwork yourself. With anabolics, your cholesterol could be very high. Either way, lower sodium, lean meat, and increase fish oil are the obvious responses, but mostly get a lipid panel done, and talk to your doctor, not us.


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## iFartGlitter (Feb 5, 2014)

Btw increased enzymes from high anabolic activity can overwhelm your kidneys. High protein and creatine metabolism is a good culprit. One of my professors asked me if I was on creatine when he noticed my resting bp was 140/90...dead accurate.


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## BIGBEN2011 (Feb 5, 2014)

i like clondine but it will for sure cause withdrauls when you stop it they give it in rehab it helps drug withdrawls a lot some how but you have to be weaned off off the clondine. but i use daily dose of cialis now i tryed giving blood but pass out all 3 times idk why i hate it but i really need to bad. my top number stay a little high but not much maybe like 130-135 over 80 and 120 over 80 is perfect. so for now i am using cialis daily .


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## sneedham (Feb 5, 2014)

I just gave blood two days ago and they always check(or should) your vitals. What was weird was my bp was 130/78 and my heart rate was 98bpm? I asked the nurse about that and she said that was not to high (bpm). She also said there cut off is 100bpm and they will not let you donate. I have no clue why my heart rate was so high, kind of unnerving..


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## Mudge (Feb 5, 2014)

98 is a pretty fast resting heart rate IMO, is that normal for you? I know one guy with a fast normal resting rate, when I was in "good shape" for being 250 pounds mine was 52.

Cutting coffee does help even if its not noticed (OP), coffee doesn't kill your BP all day long so I don't know if you drink 10 cups or what. If you drink coffee, are dehydrated, and then test within an hour or so it will be higher than otherwise.


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## sneedham (Feb 5, 2014)

Mudge said:


> 98 is a pretty fast resting heart rate IMO, is that normal for you? I know one guy with a fast normal resting rate, when I was in "good shape" for being 250 pounds mine was 52.
> 
> Cutting coffee does help even if its not noticed (OP), coffee doesn't kill your BP all day long so I don't know if you drink 10 cups or what. If you drink coffee, are dehydrated, and then test within an hour or so it will be higher than otherwise.


To be honest I am not sure..I am going to say it is usually around 75 but I am concerned to say the least. I am going to start monitoring my resting heart rate and go from there...


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## BigFucker (Feb 5, 2014)

Haha thanks for the tip!!! I'll give them my neighbors phone number- dude's an asshole.


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## Christsean (Feb 6, 2014)

BigFucker said:


> Haha thanks for the tip!!! I'll give them my neighbors phone number- dude's an asshole.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Nice!



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## Christsean (Feb 6, 2014)

sneedham said:


> To be honest I am not sure..I am going to say it is usually around 75 but I am concerned to say the least. I am going to start monitoring my resting heart rate and go from there...



Don't get too worried about it. It can fluctuate like the wind blows. If you have a heart rate monitor then you can monitor it. They sell the watches the monitor heart rate; they are a good way to collect data points throughout the day. If you're going to monitor it, you will need to establish your data collection points for one day. Each day at the established time you should check your heart rate and record it on a tablet. If it is elevated try to determine what you did from the previous data point until then and record your findings. Maybe you drank some coffee or are some spicy food; maybe you have a meeting to attend or had one. You get the idea. This way you can determine if it is psychosomatic or if it is physiological. Do that for a week to start off and if you haven't nailed down a cause go another week and compare. If your resting heart rate continues to be high without any triggers (physiological) then you may want to consult your physician to see if he thinks it's a problem and to see if he wants to treat it. If it's psychosomatic, then you may have mild anxiety issues, in which case your physician may want to treat also depending on the severity.


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## boxcar96 (Feb 7, 2014)

How are you dosing the blue sky stuff to control the bp?


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## TrojanMan60563 (Feb 7, 2014)

Sneedham your HR could have been high from the anxiety you had about giving blood. I always get nervous when I go.


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## mattsilf (Feb 8, 2014)

s2h said:


> theres places all over too donate..warning-dont give em your real phone number..they will call you endlessly when the window is up and you can give again..as bad as telemarketers..



Good to know, thanks for the tip


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## mattsilf (Feb 8, 2014)

Mudge said:


> 98 is a pretty fast resting heart rate IMO, is that normal for you? I know one guy with a fast normal resting rate, when I was in "good shape" for being 250 pounds mine was 52.
> 
> Cutting coffee does help even if its not noticed (OP), coffee doesn't kill your BP all day long so I don't know if you drink 10 cups or what. If you drink coffee, are dehydrated, and then test within an hour or so it will be higher than otherwise.



I normally have one or two Monster/Rockstar every day. I cut it down to one when I got on this cycle, then last week cut it out completely when I started having the BP issue. 2 nights ago, I needed a pick me up and drank a Monster. 20 mins later I felt like my BP was high. Needless to say, im cutting that shit completely from here on out while on cycle


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## ebfitness (Feb 8, 2014)

http://www.ironmaglabs.com/product-list/advanced-cycle-support/


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## mattsilf (Feb 8, 2014)

ebfitness said:


> http://www.ironmaglabs.com/product-list/advanced-cycle-support/


Thanks EB. I have been thinking of trying the DMZ 2.0 as my next cycle and had this on my list of needs. Dont know why I didnt get it for this cycle...thanks again


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## HamHands (Feb 9, 2014)

mattsilf said:


> I normally have one or two Monster/Rockstar every day. I cut it down to one when I got on this cycle, then last week cut it out completely when I started having the BP issue. 2 nights ago, I needed a pick me up and drank a Monster. 20 mins later I felt like my BP was high. Needless to say, im cutting that shit completely from here on out while on cycle



I was doing the same damn thing with the Monster's. I was semi-addicted to them for a year. I drank 1-2 every morning once I got to my office. It got to the point they were making my hands tingle about 1 hour after consumption. Fuck that, I don't drink them on or off of a cycle. If it's doing that to my BP when off, it isn't good for me either way. I'm done with the Monsters...


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## vassille (Feb 10, 2014)

sneedham said:


> I think CoQ10 should be used as well along with another supp such as cialis, etc.....D-bol always spikes my BP even at 30mg dont know exactly why, maybe just how I react.....



check your diet and keep it clean  from junk food and such. Also, I was cuting salt out thinking it helps but not really. I eat normal salt now and feel much better.


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## HamHands (Feb 11, 2014)

BigFucker said:


> HamHands- the portion you quoted, while maybe not clear or eloquent, was mean't to say that your body gets used to beta blockers and you are not supposed to stop their use abruptly. Any doctor monitoring your beta blocker use will tell you that you need to taper before coming off, precisely because your body gets accustomed to, or dependent on, the beta blockers. This is from my doctor and the package insert of the meds. Just google beta blocker and taper and you will find a lot of legit sources explaining this phenomenon. Coming off can be tricky and dangerous if not done right- although much may depend on genetics and length of use, etc.
> 
> So the takeaway to the OP was meant to be that beta blockers usually work well while on cycle imo, but there are some possible side effect considerations that one needs to make. I would be reluctant to self medicate beta blocker (maybe just personal pref), but if you and your doc decide they are appropriate for your circumstances, my experience has been that it usually works well on cycle- tren and drol being the exceptions as they sometimes spike my bp even with some meds.
> 
> ...



Thanks for clearing that up BF, I understand better what your talking about now. It's good to hear your experience too. Everybody is different. Genetics play a huge roll in it all. Me, my brother, and mother can take (Bystolic or Propranolol) beta blockers; for extended periods, (6) months and then cold turkey it for (1-2) months with zero side effects. (Other than my blood pressure going back to normal; normal for me is 145/90, and has been since I was 20 years old.) I've cold turkey'd Lisinopril now for the last month just to see if I need it on cycle as much as I do off, and I do need it. I'm going back on it today. The only side effect I had from quitting Lisinopril is some water retention from gear...My Lisinopril is combo'd with hydrochlorothiazide, a diuretic to treat hypertension. Lisinopril/Hctz combo and Bystolic have been been clean (side effects wise) and life prolonging drugs form me...


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## BigFucker (Feb 14, 2014)

Hamhands- Do you get dry mouth with lisinopril. My dry mouth is killing me and it's mostly from the clonidine. I HATE that side effect..


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## mattsilf (Feb 24, 2014)

Just an update...been on the tadalafil for a few days now. Went to donate blood today. I was 140/90 and 78bpm. They said its a little high. While I was donating, I got dizzy as hell. Im thinking I still had some tadalifil in me and that didnt help. Lol, I learned my lesson there


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## HamHands (Feb 27, 2014)

BigFucker said:


> Hamhands- Do you get dry mouth with lisinopril. My dry mouth is killing me and it's mostly from the clonidine. I HATE that side effect..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



No dry mouth from the Lisinopril at all, nor the Bystolic (beta blocker) I take daily. I hate dry mouth. It reminds me of the days when I used to abuse Adderall in college...


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## Paranoid Fitness (Feb 27, 2014)

If it's water retention, try some Midol...SERIOUSLY.
If you can't get it down on your own, drop the orals and whatever else is elevating your BP.
If the Cia is working for you, great.

I am hypertensive, no choice but to take BP meds.
Amlodipine, Losartan and Metoprolol. I was switched to those three from Lisinopril/HCTZ after being diagnosed with CKD.
The Lisinopril is processed by the kidneys rather than the liver. Have renal function checked if you're taking Lisinopril.

The good news is, with all those meds, keeping BP in check while on cycle...no problem.


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## Paranoid Fitness (Feb 27, 2014)

HCTZ for water retention. Water retention raises BP so if get rid of bloat you lower BP.

Many BP meds are available in combination with HCTZ for those who don't get enough reduction with a single med.


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