# Bulking Diet FINALLY (critique greatly appriciated)



## Skate67 (Oct 15, 2005)

After finally getting back into the whole routine of training for the most part after the summer, I compiled this diet over several days.  My stats are 5'8", 140 lbs (i was 160 lbs 4 months ago   damn framing).  I hope this is better than my last bulking diet which consisted of mass gainer shakes, brown bread and tuna  . Anyways here goes (totals are in grams):

*Meal 1*

Multivitamin
6 eggs (only 2 yolks)
0.66 cup of oatmeal uncooked
1 cup skim milk
2 fish caps
2 tbsp ground flaxseed

Protein 44 | Carbs 46 | Fat 25


*Meal 2*

Sandwich
      -can of chunk light tuna
      -2 pieces of sprouted grain bread
      -lettuce
      -1 tbsp mayo
0.25 cup of peanuts
carrots/celery

Protein 37 | Carbs 38 | Fat 31


*Meal 3*

1/4 cup of brown rice (uncooked)
8 oz 95% lean ground beef
0.5 avocado
steamed veggies (broccoli, carrots, asparagus)

Protein 48 | Carbs 43 | Fat 27


*Meal 4*

Some kind of home cooked meal 

Protein ~40 | Carbs ~40 | Fat ~15


*Meal 5 (PWO)*

1.5 cups skim milk
2 scoops of whey
~50 ml of dextrose? (if you know what weight in g this is tell me  )
5 g creatine

Protein 57 | Carbs 62 | Fat 4


*Meal 6 (PPWO)*

1 medium yam or sweet potato
med chicken breast
large salad
1 tbsp olive oil
2 tbsp hemp seeds

Protein 43 | Carbs 39 | Fat 24

Which combines to a daily total of:

*Protein 269 | Carbs 278 | Fat 126*

Which yields a grand total of *4417 calories* in a *37/37/26*  respective breakdown.

I was thinking of adding a banana to the PWO shake but i loved the perfect ratio so i left it alone.  Keep in mind im not a diet expert .  What do you guys think?  Any opinions welcome.

*Edit*:  Keep in mind my metabolism is _very_ fast.  i probably won't even put on a ponch with this diet.


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## LAM (Oct 15, 2005)

don't use milk in your PWO shake use only water and/or juice(s).

other than that it looks pretty solid


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## Skate67 (Oct 15, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> don't use milk in your PWO shake use only water and/or juice(s).
> 
> other than that it looks pretty solid



not even skim ?


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## rgrmike74 (Oct 15, 2005)

i have read alot bout not useing milk in your shakes.. what is the reason? skim milk in my shakes is bout the only way to make them taste good enough to finish


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## Hlanderr (Oct 15, 2005)

correct me if im wrong, but for some reason I thought milk slowed down protein metabolism...
maybe im thinking about something else? i might be talking out of my ass.... im pretty hungover! hah


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## LAM (Oct 15, 2005)

ST240 said:
			
		

> not even skim ?



nope.  milk is not an optimum liquid to use for the PWO shake.  the caesin in the milk will bond with the whey causing it to be digested at a much slower rate.  PWO you want those amino acids to get to your bloodstream ASAP to start the repair process.


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## Skate67 (Oct 15, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> nope.  milk is not an optimum liquid to use for the PWO shake.  the caesin in the milk will bond with the whey causing it to be digested at a much slower rate.  PWO you want those amino acids to get to your bloodstream ASAP to start the repair process.



alright well i think ill just switch to plain ol' water then...


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## Skate67 (Oct 15, 2005)

Oh, yeah and another thing... I was thinking of replacing the ground flax with ground almonds in meal 1 (ground almonds on oats proved to be quite tasty   ).  Are there any restrictions to the kinds of nuts you should eat (im referring to the peanuts here too).  Just your average roasted/salted is ok?  Blanched isnt too appealing  .


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## Emma-Leigh (Oct 15, 2005)

Gaahhhh... Milk is good PWO!!! Don't listen to the myths!!

To re-post some other posts I have made:


> Actually milk is great PWO and it is due to not only an ability to rapidly increase insulin secretion, but also because of the unique combination of protein fractions (both caesin and whey).
> 
> And yes, milk will actually increase insulin substantially - you have to remember that insulin release and glycaemic index are not always related.
> 
> ...




There have also been HEAPS of threads on the topic... Do a search!... But here are a few of them:
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=36488
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=47740


Now.... I have been saying that milk is great for PWO for YEARS now... But if you do not believe me... Try to take a look at some of the latest research coming out about optimal PWO nutrition (S. Phillips, Tipton... etc etc)!!

International whey conference  This presentation by Dr Phillips states "Bottom Line
SYNTHESIS: WHY = MIX > CAS
BREAKDOWN: CAS = MIX > WHY
OXIDATION: WHY > MIX > CAS
BALANCE: MIX > WHY = CAS
A MIXTURE OF WHEY AND CASEIN MAY PROVIDE AN OPTIMAL BLEND OF PROTEINS TO SUPPORT PROTEIN ACCRETION IN MUSCLE AS A RESULT OF RESISTANCE EXERCISE"

From This t-nation article There is this info "???Research is underway to determine which mix of whey-casein: 100% whey, 75/25, 50/50, 25/75 or 100% casein best improves protein retention after 80% 1RM whole-body resistance exercise. So far (4 subjects), the casein seems to provide a bit higher BCAA and leucine-specific responses in the blood at the 60-minute mark. Watch for protein powder manufacturers to jump all over this research as they design their products next year...."

There is also this article which just states that whey and casein both can help: 





> Ingestion of casein and whey proteins result in muscle anabolism after resistance exercise.
> Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Dec;36(12):2073-81.
> Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.
> Metabolism Unit, Shriners Hospitals for Children and Department of Surgery, The University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, TX
> PURPOSE: Determination of the anabolic response to exercise and nutrition is important for individuals who may benefit from increased muscle mass. Intake of free amino acids after resistance exercise stimulates net muscle protein synthesis. The response of muscle protein balance to intact protein ingestion after exercise has not been studied. This study was designed to examine the acute response of muscle protein balance to ingestion of two different intact proteins after resistance exercise. METHODS: Healthy volunteers were randomly assigned to one of three groups. Each group consumed one of three drinks: placebo (PL; N = 7), 20 g of casein (CS; N = 7), or whey proteins (WH; N = 9). Volunteers consumed the drink 1 h after the conclusion of a leg extension exercise bout. CONCLUSIONS: Acute ingestion of both whey protein and casein after exercise resulted in similar increases in muscle protein net balance, resulting in net muscle protein synthesis despite different patterns of blood amino acid responses.




Anyway.... To your diet.

1. Too much protein - at your weight you do not need 269g protein. I would stick with something closer to the 210-240g mark.
2. I would add some more carbs.... 
3. I would probably cap fats at ~20g a meal....
4. I would add some fruit



			
				ST240 said:
			
		

> *Meal 1*
> Multivitamin
> 6 eggs (only 2 yolks)
> 0.66 cup of oatmeal uncooked
> ...


Looks good. I would dump ~ 5g of fat and add a little more carb instead.




> *Meal 2*
> Sandwich
> -can of chunk light tuna
> -2 pieces of sprouted grain bread
> ...


Looks fine. Once again, LOTS of fats here... I would add a little more carb too (eg: a peice of fruit)




> *Meal 3*
> 
> 1/4 cup of brown rice (uncooked)
> 8 oz 95% lean ground beef
> ...


Good... (once again with the fats).
Decrease protein. 8oz is too much meat for someone 50 pounds heavier than you....



> *Meal 4*
> 
> Some kind of home cooked meal
> 
> Protein ~40 | Carbs ~40 | Fat ~15


LOL... Fine.




> *Meal 5 (PWO)*
> 
> 1.5 cups skim milk
> 2 scoops of whey
> ...


WAY too much protein and not enough carb... Decrease your protein to ~45g (0.33 x your weight) at a maximum.  In reality, 0.25g/pound is enough (35g).

Leave the milk.

And for dextrose there is 76g of carbs in 1/3 of a cup... (roughly 1g of carb per ml volume). So 2 tbs ~ 30g carbs.



> *Meal 6 (PPWO)*
> 
> 1 medium yam or sweet potato
> med chicken breast
> ...


I would decrease protein and add more carbs here. Fat could come down slightly.



> Which combines to a daily total of:
> 
> *Protein 269 | Carbs 278 | Fat 126*
> 
> Which yields a grand total of *4417 calories* in a *37/37/26*  respective breakdown.


As I said above, decrease protein slightly and increase carbs slightly. Fat can stay where it is if you like.




> I was thinking of adding a banana to the PWO shake but i loved the perfect ratio so i left it alone.  Keep in mind im not a diet expert .  What do you guys think?  Any opinions welcome.


Add the banana.

What about:
1 cup milk (12g carb, 8g protein)
1 med. banana (28g carb)
30g whey (~25g protein)
30g dextrose (30g carb)
5g creatine
TOTAL = 70g carb, 33g protein



> *Edit*:  Keep in mind my metabolism is _very_ fast.  i probably won't even put on a ponch with this diet.


If this is the case then you certainly want to increase your carbs... Protein is NOT going to work for you!!


In regards to the nuts - walnuts are the best. Almonds are ok, but they are not going to give you the omega-3 fats that linseeds will give you.

The best nuts are walnuts and almonds. Pecans are ok too... Peanuts (not a real nut... but anyway) are fine - but they are higher in saturated fats and carbs than some of your other nuts. Cashews are also high in carbs and sat. fats.

The others are ok... I would stay clear of macadamia's (saturated fats) and hazelnuts (poor fat ratio).


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## Skate67 (Oct 15, 2005)

Wow thats a lot of info.  Thanks a lot Emma-Leigh.  If it's any consolation i thought 8 oz. of beef was too much too lol.  Ill make those changes then.  So i guess ill leave the milk in there cuz it makes the shake that much more enjoyable .  Btw does that PWO shake have to be consumed _immediately_ after the workout?  Or can it wait until i get home (~20 min) and make it there?

You got me confused about the whole nut/seed thing now  i thought almonds were pretty good and i donno if linseeds will tastes as good as almonds do in my oatmeal haha.


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## Hlanderr (Oct 15, 2005)

I've heard it's best to take your protein/carbs IMMEDIATELY after lifting.
Like, as your walking away from your last set if possible.... hahah well maybe a drink of water might be refreshing first....

I drive to the gym I'm go to and I always bring my shake with me, and I'm drinking it within a few minutes after my last set in my car on my ride back.

Not sure where I heard that from, but I think the general idea is to have it as soon as you can...


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## Hlanderr (Oct 16, 2005)

bump for interest


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## LAM (Oct 16, 2005)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Gaahhhh... Milk is good PWO!!! Don't listen to the myths!!



if it is a myth why is that not ONE single performance test lab recommends using caesin post WO ?


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## lnvanry (Oct 16, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> if it is a myth why is that not ONE single performance test lab recommends using caesin post WO ?


 w/ that theory then LAM....would it be better to have the milk (caesin protein) w/ protein shakes right before bedtime to get a slow steady "stash" of slow digesting protein?


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## Emma-Leigh (Oct 16, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> if it is a myth why is that not ONE single performance test lab recommends using caesin post WO ?


A lot of the research is only just beginning to be circulated now... Did you read the articles I linked above? (especially the presentation by Phillips). The information is plain to see.

The reason why no one is using it yet is because everyone has the same resistance to change - the current 'whey only' theory is so ingrained that it is going to take time. It is the same idea behind the whole 'food pyramid' thing or the 'fats are bad' thing. People are slow on the uptake.

But you wait - with the research that is coming out now, it will not be long before people will be using the information and suggesting a mix of protein fractions PWO.


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## Emma-Leigh (Oct 16, 2005)

lnvanry said:
			
		

> w/ that theory then LAM....would it be better to have the milk (caesin protein) w/ protein shakes right before bedtime to get a slow steady "stash" of slow digesting protein?


Yes - it is a well known fact that casein at night is a good thing... Whey, not as much... But casein, yes.

If you want further benefits adding some fibre and/or fats would also help to slow digestion.


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## Skate67 (Oct 16, 2005)

is it ok to take my pwo shake when i get home or should i do it at the gym?


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## thajeepster (Oct 16, 2005)

my calc's  (269g+278g) x 4 + 126g x 9 = 3322 cals not 4417 and that would be a 32p/33c/34f isocaloric diet.


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## thajeepster (Oct 16, 2005)

sorry, btw , im kindof a math freak .... lol


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## Skate67 (Oct 16, 2005)

errrrrrrrr.  isnt there 6 cals per g in protein and carbs?

*Edit*:  Son of a bitch there is 4.... LOL.  Wow, do i ever feel like an idiot.  Guess ill have to be switching shit up then.     iso caloric isn't what i really want i dont think...


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## Skate67 (Oct 16, 2005)

thajeepster said:
			
		

> sorry, btw , im kindof a math freak .... lol



Believe me, im an engineering student.  Math is my best friend whether i like it or not.


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## Emma-Leigh (Oct 16, 2005)

ST240 said:
			
		

> errrrrrrrr.  isnt there 6 cals per g in protein and carbs?
> 
> *Edit*:  Son of a bitch there is 4.... LOL.  Wow, do i ever feel like an idiot.  Guess ill have to be switching shit up then.     iso caloric isn't what i really want i dont think...


LOL - No:
Protein and carbs = 4 cals/gram
fat = 9 cals/gram


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## thajeepster (Oct 17, 2005)

ST240 said:
			
		

> errrrrrrrr.  isnt there 6 cals per g in protein and carbs?
> 
> *Edit*:  Son of a bitch there is 4.... LOL.  Wow, do i ever feel like an idiot.  Guess ill have to be switching shit up then.     iso caloric isn't what i really want i dont think...



have you been on this diet for a while?  are you gaining on it?  If so, stick with it.  If not, or if you havent started yet, you might do better lowering fats a tad (100-110g or so) and raising carbs.


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## Hlanderr (Oct 17, 2005)

I like to throw in two scoops of carbs with my post workout shake.
I bought this massive 20 pound bucket of maltodextrin carbs online which has about 30 g of carbs per serving (less than 1 g of sugar).
Since it's with your shake you wouldn;t have to change your diet at all if you really want to stick with that one.


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## Skate67 (Oct 17, 2005)

thajeepster said:
			
		

> have you been on this diet for a while?  are you gaining on it?  If so, stick with it.  If not, or if you havent started yet, you might do better lowering fats a tad (100-110g or so) and raising carbs.



no i just started it a few days ago... I think im gonna give it a whirl, except like Emma-Leigh suggested ill add a few more carbs such as fruit, etc.  Never tried iso-caloric before... maybe its what ive been looking for


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## Nate K (Oct 17, 2005)

Bringing Shake in the car...is this worth it?  5-10 minutes v.s. 1 minute....anyones opinion.


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## Skate67 (Oct 17, 2005)

Nate K said:
			
		

> Bringing Shake in the car...is this worth it?  5-10 minutes v.s. 1 minute....anyones opinion.



ive opted to bringing my skim milk/powder into the locker room


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## swordfish (Oct 17, 2005)

just a side question, how much do you weigh emma leigh and what are some other stats? also, how long have you been lifting?


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## thajeepster (Oct 18, 2005)

swordfish said:
			
		

> just a side question, how much do you weigh emma leigh and what are some other stats? also, how long have you been lifting?



she has a journal that she updates daily, you should take a look at it... very motivational


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## big boi 1906 (Mar 29, 2006)

So Emma, what do you think protein, carbs, and fat numbers should be for someone with an LBM of 196 endomorph with not good digestive enzymes looking to bulk.  I do have a good rate metabolism.

And then maybe looking to cut.

I guess maintenance would be like 15 x LBM.

Protein around 1-1.5 x LBM
Carbs around 0.5-1.5 x LBM
Fat around 20% of total calories.

Could you help me out plz?


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## dontsurfonmytur (Mar 29, 2006)

I dont beleive in MILK PWO, i mean, it IS casein and casein IS a slow absorbing protein .


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