# Avant Testers Take II



## Twin Peak (Apr 28, 2003)

*Avant Testers: Looking for Volunteers*

Leptigen II is still being tweaked, and will hopefully be ready shortly.

In the meanwhile, Avant has released some new products, and I'd like to offer one up for testing at this time.  We will be looking for 2-3 volunteers to test a revolutionary new product, *Anorect-In.*

Here is the Avant write up:

"The first in our upcoming ???Innovative Nutraceuticals??? lineup, a fast acting appetite suppressant, Anorect-IN utilizes a unique intraoral delivery system to deaden hunger within seconds."

We are looking for two to three volunteers, who would be interested in testing this product.  As of today, it is available for retail sale, but it would be helpful for some people to post a mini-journal on their reactions to it.

If you are interested, please post so, and tell me why you'd be a good candidate _for this product._

Thanks in advance.


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## DaMayor (Apr 28, 2003)

*holding hand over mouth*


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## Twin Peak (Apr 28, 2003)

No takers?  Guess I'll have to test it myself....


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## katie64 (Apr 28, 2003)

TP....I would not be a likely candidate for this, since I have to force myself to eat, just a question, you said the LeptigenII would be out soon, do you have an approximate date???????


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## Tkarrde (Apr 28, 2003)

Not TP, but I work for Avant. Though dates continue to vacillate due to difficulty with sourcing one elusive ingredient, I would venture it will be ready within 1months' time.


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## lina (Apr 28, 2003)

Anorect-In? 

Sounds too much like Anorexia!


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## Tkarrde (Apr 28, 2003)

An anorectic is anything "which causes loss of appetite." This is obviously the origin of the term Anorexia. 

I completely understand your disdain for the word association, however we DO NOT wish to trivialize the seriousness with which we construe Eating Disorders or suggest that this product induces a state of "Anorexia" (as it is commonly used), as this is nothing to glorify.

 As an employee for a supplement company in the bodybuilding business, I personally feel it *essential* to be sensitive to the corrosive effects and increasingly epidemical nature of eating disorders within our community.


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## lina (Apr 28, 2003)

Oh, I see...pardon le ignorance!

I'm glad YOU *care*

Welcome to IM


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## Tkarrde (Apr 28, 2003)

Thanks for the welcome 

Oh, and having basically had an eating disorder at one point in my life, I can sincerely say that the issue, and the ways in which it effects people, means a tremendous amount to me.

It is a serious issue--one I will most likely address in an upcoming article in Mind and Muscle Magazine.


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## lina (Apr 28, 2003)

Will look for that article and thanks for sharing your personal life...


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## Tkarrde (Apr 28, 2003)

I'll give you an update when I finally get it done  Could take awhile...


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## dvlmn666 (Apr 28, 2003)

hey, I'm in. But i still want to be considered for the Leptigen II as well.  I'm currently cutting using a carb cycling diet that TP has used with great success. 

I'd be happy to be a beta tester for any of Avant Labs products.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 29, 2003)

Much better.  

Anyone else?  Bueller?


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## lina (Apr 30, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> No takers?  Guess I'll have to test it myself....



I guess you'll have to! 

Why don't you?


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## Jodi (May 1, 2003)

I don't like the idea of getting rid of my hunger pangs.  If I do I may feel my plan isn't working.  When my hunger goes away it ususally means it time for a tweak and that can range for 3-6 weeks.  So for me taking away my hunger may mask the fact that I need a tweak.  Don't know if that makes sense but I thought I would throw that in because it may be one of the reasons your not receiving as many responses.  There are many of us here that use our hunger levels to know when to manipulate our diets.


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## Robboe (May 1, 2003)

Interesting strategy.

What is the pangs/cravings got so bad you thought you may break diet?

This product is ideal for such a situation.


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## Jodi (May 1, 2003)

I don't break my diet.  Really, very rarely do I ever and its never due to hunger.   I usually schedule my cheats.  Thats why I know I wouldn't be a good test subject for this one.  Now Leptigen II


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## DaMayor (May 1, 2003)

You _schedule_ your cheats? Damn you're good J! Seems to somehow contradict the term, though.


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## lina (May 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> I don't like the idea of getting rid of my hunger pangs.  If I do I may feel my plan isn't working.  When my hunger goes away it ususally means it time for a tweak and that can range for 3-6 weeks.  So for me taking away my hunger may mask the fact that I need a tweak.  Don't know if that makes sense but I thought I would throw that in because it may be one of the reasons your not receiving as many responses.  There are many of us here that use our hunger levels to know when to manipulate our diets.



Very good point.


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## Twin Peak (May 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> I don't break my diet.  Really, very rarely do I ever and its never due to hunger.   I usually schedule my cheats.  Thats why I know I wouldn't be a good test subject for this one.  Now Leptigen II



If LG II works the way its supposed to, you won't have hunger much then either.  Hunger comes from a variety of factors (Rob can explicate on this if he likes), but the most important, is leptin levels crashing.


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## Twin Peak (May 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by lina *_
> I guess you'll have to!
> 
> Why don't you?



Of course I will.  But my opinions could be construed as biased, by those who don't know me.


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## Twin Peak (May 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Interesting strategy.
> 
> What is the pangs/cravings got so bad you thought you may break diet?
> ...



Exactly.  This is not intended to be used regularly, just when the need arises.

It will also have ancillary lipolytic effects.


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## Robboe (May 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Hunger comes from a variety of factors (Rob can explicate on this if he likes), but the most important, is leptin levels crashing.




Yeah, falling leptin signals all the hunger and craving stimulating hormone into overdrive.


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## Twin Peak (May 1, 2003)

So DV is the only one interested, is that correct?

Okay.  DV -- email me your address, and such.


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## nikegurl (May 1, 2003)

maybe this would be good for me?  not sure if a supplement can "fix" my issue or not.

when i get on a roll - i can stick to my diet.  but it has been MONTHS of me starting and slipping, starting and slipping.  i can't seem to get more than 4 days without a cheat.  i plan ahead.  i vow to stick to it and i keep blowing it over and over with some dumb slip.  

as for using hunger to judge when a tweak is in order - i think that would still work.  you'd only take this when the hunger got really bad so you'd know when the hunger stopped still.

but i don't have to worry about any tweaks - i keep messing up before i get that far.  not sure if it's hunger that's messing me up (i really think it is) or if i'm just a mental weakling lately.  i want to think it's the hunger....


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## Twin Peak (May 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> maybe this would be good for me?  not sure if a supplement can "fix" my issue or not.
> 
> when i get on a roll - i can stick to my diet.  but it has been MONTHS of me starting and slipping, starting and slipping.  i can't seem to get more than 4 days without a cheat.  i plan ahead.  i vow to stick to it and i keep blowing it over and over with some dumb slip.
> ...



Actually, sounds like Leptigen II would be ideal for you, on a global system basis, but yes, Anorect-In is intended for OCCASSIONAL use, when a hunger pang/craving hits, and you want to deaden it, immediately.

Justin, I think we have found our second contestant.  Thoughts?


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## nikegurl (May 1, 2003)

I'm willing to try that's for sure.  I've gone months in the past without cheating but I just can't seem to get in the groove this time around.  I cook ahead.  I plan my meals and then one day (usually only 3-4 days after my last fresh start) I give in when the hunger hits and just blow it.

I'm not liking myself too much lately.  I'm really sick of this particular pattern.  Seems like dieting should be harder after weeks and months of it but for me - it's the starting that's hardest.


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## Tkarrde (May 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> I'm willing to try that's for sure.  I've gone months in the past without cheating but I just can't seem to get in the groove this time around.  I cook ahead.  I plan my meals and then one day (usually only 3-4 days after my last fresh start) I give in when the hunger hits and just blow it.
> 
> I'm not liking myself too much lately.  I'm really sick of this particular pattern.  Seems like dieting should be harder after weeks and months of it but for me - it's the starting that's hardest.




I can identify with this, as can Steve I'm sure. I know the patterns--diet, become obsessed with food--break the diet, feel guilt, re-initiate pattern. I basically cannot go much more than 3days, when dieting, without sometype of refeed (large intake of carbs--cereal, fat free waffles, etc).

But one thing which may be of help in lessening how much you beat yourself up is the knowledge that what you/we are experiencing is a PHYSIOLOGICAL starvation response, not some type of mental depravity. Have you researched leptin and the notion of refeeds to any extent? If not, let me know, and I'll forward you some pertinent articles and threads which deal with what you are experiencing, and may help to put your mind at ease, at least somewhat.

Oh, and as Twinpeak suggested, you definitely seem an excellent candidate for testing of Anorect-IN, and Leptigen II when we release it.


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## nikegurl (May 1, 2003)

The Leptigen sounds even more interesting to me.

I had success with an eating plan that had me eating 6 meals a day and under 30 g active carbs a day with a carb up every 4th day.  I varied it after about 4-5 weeks were instead of carb ups I'd eat some active carbs daily (oatmeal, yam).  I seemed to make better progress without daily carbs.

When I tried to go back to that eating plan I found I wasn't making it to day 4 before I'd slip and cheat.  I am determined to get it this time.

I'm at 19% bodyfat and I want to get down 12-13% and stay there.

I give 110% effort in the gym and I don't skip or miss days.  I do the planning needed to not mess up the diet but I still slip up lately.  

I know my body fairly well and can monitor changes in appearence and energy levels.  I'd be willing to do a very detail log etc.

If you need to know anything else - let me know.  I'd really like to test the Leptigen II especially.  I'm game for Anorect-IN if you or Twinpeak think it could help.

My current eating plan:

Meal 1
1/2 cup oatmeal
4 oz ground turkey breast
1 egg
3 egg whites

Meal 2
protein shake

Meal 3
can tuna
2 cups mixed greens
2 Tbs low cal dressing
4 oz yam

Meal 4
protein shake

Meal 5
5 oz chicken breast
1 cup veggie (cabbage, brocolli....)
flax

I thought having the daily oatmeal and yam would stop the slips.  I still seem to falter every 3-4 days.

Last year I went like 4 months with only the tiniest rarest cheats.  Haven't been that successful on this cut.  I'm determined.  I'm training hard.  I'm preparing.  It just isn't happening like it should though.

Thanks for the consideration


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## Twin Peak (May 1, 2003)

Why don't you and DVLM PM TK with your names and addresses.  Justin can you get them set up with the samples?


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## dvlmn666 (May 1, 2003)

Not a prob. Thanks for posting this opportunity.


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## Tkarrde (May 1, 2003)

Yes, pm me with your info and I will have the samples sent out tomorrow. I will also be in touch regarding what type of feedback we're looking for, etc..


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## lina (May 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> I'm willing to try that's for sure.  I've gone months in the past without cheating but I just can't seem to get in the groove this time around.  I cook ahead.  I plan my meals and then one day (usually only 3-4 days after my last fresh start) I give in when the hunger hits and just blow it.
> 
> I'm not liking myself too much lately.  I'm really sick of this particular pattern.  Seems like dieting should be harder after weeks and months of it but for me - it's the starting that's hardest.



I have the same problem and same pattern of behavior... I don't know if it's psychological or just a cravvving inside....but I know it is not hunger pains.  It's just something I feel missing...


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## Twin Peak (May 2, 2003)

FYI, I received my A-in last night.  Out of curiousity, I will test it today.  I am not taking ephedrine today, which supresses my appetite nicely, so that I can build up a severe state of hunger quickly.  I'll keep you posted.


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## ZECH (May 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I am not taking ephedrine today, which supresses my appetite nicely, so that I can build up a severe state of hunger quickly.  I'll keep you posted.


I can take it before I go to the gym and still come back starving. I just get shakey!


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## Twin Peak (May 2, 2003)

I am rarely hungry after the gym in any event, particularly after my shake.


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## ZECH (May 2, 2003)

I usually have a chicken breast or a can of tuna with a shake when I get back to work.


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## Twin Peak (May 2, 2003)

Okay, by 11:55 I could eat a cow.  Last food was my pwo shake of 45g whey and 35g dextrose, at 7 am.  On top of that yesterday I had around 1200 kcals total, if that.

At 11:55, I used three squirts.  Now, for the record, I think it was really only 1.5-2 squirts, b/c since it was a new bottle, it took a bit to get started and the 3rd Sq was definitely the biggest.

Its now 20 minutes later -- effects?  Not super dramatic but noticable.

After 5 minutes, my hunger was not "dead", and I definitely could have eaten, but I was not ravished.  It was much more subtle than I expected, too.  Not sure if that is good or bad.  I am not desparately in need of food, either.

Interesting.  I think I am going to wait the two hours, only drink water, and then do 4 squirts.  All in the name of science!


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## dvlmn666 (May 6, 2003)

Well got my goody package yesterday. 

so decided to do cardio on an empty stomach this morning. So work up totally starving, stomach grumbling and everything. 

Took 4 squirts, within about 15-20 minutes, the need for food was actually gone, stomach grumbles even quit. During cardio I could feel my stomach was empty but hunger wasn't there, and  even 1.5 hrs later and I'm still not hungry. However I do know I have to eat and follow my diet plan. 

But for a first use I'm very impressed.  

I'll keep you updated.


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## Twin Peak (May 6, 2003)

Interesting.

Another time when you should try it, BTW, is after you finished eating a specific meal, but still want more, or don't want to stop.

I continue to find the effects more subtle, but quicker, than I expected.  The hunger sort of disappears rather than there be a rush of fullness.  In general, I think this a good thing.


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## dvlmn666 (May 6, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> 
> I continue to find the effects more subtle, but quicker, than I expected.  The hunger sort of disappears rather than there be a rush of fullness.  In general, I think this a good thing.



Yes exactly, it wasn't a feeling of fullness, the hunger just kinda disappeard. 

And great advice I'll try it when I'm done with a meal but still hungry. That's been happening quite a bit lately.


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## Tkarrde (May 6, 2003)

Nice feedback.

Keep it coming


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## nikegurl (May 7, 2003)

wanted to let you both know - i still haven't gotten mine.  i'll keep you posted.  by the way - 1 hour 'til my next meal and i'm starving.


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## Twin Peak (May 7, 2003)

Opps.  Thanks for letting us know.


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## nikegurl (May 7, 2003)

no problem.  didn't want you to think i was being lazy!

i'll let you know when it arrives and fill you in on everything.  the time between meal #2 and #3 is often the hardest for me.  i think i'll try it then first!


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## Tkarrde (May 7, 2003)

It was shipped last week...I will touch base with the distributor and see what I can discover.


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## Twin Peak (May 14, 2003)

Justin, where are we on this?  Has a new bottle been shipped?


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## Tkarrde (May 14, 2003)

No, but will be tomorrow


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## nikegurl (May 15, 2003)

thank you both.  i'll be on the lookout for it.  the one that was delivered to a different city/zip code never did show up.  (it was addressed correctly - but post office delivery confirmation shows it was delivered to a different nearby city)


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## Twin Peak (May 16, 2003)

Odd.

Sorry.


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## Tkarrde (May 19, 2003)

Another bottle should make its way there soon...


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## Twin Peak (Jun 11, 2003)

This ever arrive???


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