# Subcutaneous testosterone injections



## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

*STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE INJECTIONS*

M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University,
Hamilton, ON, Canada

*Objectives:* The preferred technique of androgen replacement has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous (SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however, its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore investigated the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using SC therapy. Patients and methods: Between May and September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving 10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism.

Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for 1 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL 200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks.

Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration is not officially approved by Health Canada. T levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection in week 6 and 8. 

At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels were measured however; the week 12 data are still being collected. 

*Results:* Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit 0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l (p¼0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T (25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1 (27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy with no adverse effects. 

*Conclusions:* A once-week SC injection of 50???100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further evaluation. 


*I did a run with subc back in April and here was my log;*

I have been on a cruise dose of 280mg per week of Testosterone Cypionate and decided I would try injecting my testosterone subcutaneously. I have never injected testosterone any other way than Intramuscularly until today. I decided to use up some pharm grade propionate that has been sitting around so I loaded up a 29 guage slin pin with 40mg of prop. This was 40 units as the prop is 100mg/ml. I warmed up the testosterone in a cup of hot water and swirled it around until it was very warm. It took about 2 minutes to load the pin as the oil is somewhat thick. I injected 2 inches to the right of my belly button into a fold of skin. The injection took about 20 seconds. I felt nothing except the needle penetrating the skin. Several hours later I now feel a slight burning sensation at the injection site. I will pin 40mg/40 units every day and record my experience here.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

If 40 units a day does not cause any problems with prop then using cyp at 200mg/ml that would equal 560mg per week. I still have some discomfort at the site and a small knot but time will tell how well this works.

My hope is to maintain very even blood androgen levels doing this. I hope those even androgen levels will reduce sides like acne. I also was thinking this would be an ideal way for ladies to use aas. Some adventursome women use Prop at 35-70 mg weekly.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

There are several things I hope to find out doing this. The first is how much volume can comfortably be injected right under the skin. In the trial they shot as much as .5 ml once weekly. I will shoot .4 ml every day for a while and experiment with various volumes after that.

I also wonder how much this will slow down the release of the ester. I know HCG is reportedly slowed down when shooting sub q verses IM.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

I have taken hundreds of subcutaneous injections but never with aas. It definately feels different from shooting a water based medicine like HCG. I chose a 1/2 inch pin as that should be deep enough with the volume I am using. I will shoot 2 inches to the left of my belly button tomorow and see how it goes from there.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

I will run this at various doses and using different esters until I feel I have answered my questions. I am interested to see how long the depot is felt under the skin and how painful this will compare to IM injections. I also would like to see if this frequent small dose administration reduces acne. There is also the issue of scar tissue with multiple IM injections so this may be a route for those who want to avoid scar tissue in the muscle. I also want to experience this so I can advise others on its use, particularly women. I imagine I can have a pretty decent working knowledge of this in a few weeks.


Day 2
Yesterdays injection site is still sore to the touch and I can feel a very small inflamed area. I injected 40mg of prop 2 inches to the left of my belly button subq this morning and felt no pain during the injection.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

Day 3
Both sites are still a little sore and inflamed. It feels different shooting sub q vs IM. I shot another 40iu and I barely felt the inject a few minutes ago.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

A subq inject is a little different. The pin should never penetrate the muscle at all. Additionally, the volumes I am using are quite small, 4/10ths of a cc. Here is an illustration of a subq inject. I am using a 29 guage 1/2" pin.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

I don't have any redness at any injection sites. I have slight localized swelling though.

Day 4
Pinned another 40iu test P subq in my stomach. I still have some minor swelling but very little pain.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

90 degree angle for injection, 45 degree angle if the pt has low body fat


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

*The Procedure.*

1. Inform patient of the procedure and obtain consent 


2. Check the five Rights and prepare and check the medication. In most institutions both nurses must check and sign for the medications. 
*
3. Subcutaneous injections can be given at a 90 degree angle or at a 45 degree angl*e 

4. Normal practice is to give the shot straight in at a 90 degree angle if 2 inches of skin can be grasped between the nurses thumb and first (index) finger

5. However, if only one inch of skin can be grasped the it is safer and less painful to give the injection at a 45 degree angle

6. Remove the alcohol with from the container

7. Cleanse the area where you plan to give the injection. Allow the area dry.

8. Remove the cover of the needle from the syringe

9. Hold the syringe in your writing hand and pull the cover off with the other hand

10. For a 45 degree angle injection hold the syringe with your dominant hand

11. Then place the syringe between your thumb and your index and second fingers. The needle should be pointing to the skin at the 45 degree angle.

12. For a 90 degree angle injection hold the syringe with your dominant hand

13. Then place the syringe under your thumb and first finger. Let the barrel of the syringe rest on your second finger. Some people hold a pen in this manner.

14. Hold the skin with the hand not holding the syringe. Holding the syringe barrel tightly using your dominant hand, use your wrist movement to inject the needle. Sometimes the needle goes in easily. At other times people have tougher skin and a little more pressure or force is used.

15. Push the plunger down to inject the medication into the patient

16. Gently withdraw the needle at the same angle you put it in...*also release the pinched skin as you remove...better yet release it right before you remove the needle*

17. Finally, wipe the area with the dry sterile gauze 2 x 2 pad

18. Dispose the syringe and needle in the sharps container, or in a used container of MUSCLETECH WEIGHT GAIN HARDCORE. =)


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

Day 5
skipping administration today


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

lol, I have 4 little sore spots that are slighty inflammed on my belly. I think I will switch to cyp tomorow, that way I will shoot only 20iu as it is twice the concentration as prop.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

Ok, I decided to switch over to cyp. I shot 20iu/40mg of TC in my left side above my hip about 2 minutes ago. It was painless to shoot but I will see if there is any pain later.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

I have had blood work that showed 250mg per week put me at the high end of the range for Total T but everyone is different so I imagine it varies from person to person.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

Ok, cyp was way better. Zero pain or discomfort!

Day 6
Shot 20iu/40mg of cyp sub q in my abdomen fat. zero pain during the inject other than slight pain when the needle broke the skin.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

Day 7 Subcutaneous Cypionate Injection.

More of the same. Test Cyp is painless subq and at 20units/40mg I feel no oil under the skin. My shot last night was good. Zero problems. I may experiment with larger volumes =)


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

The feedback I have recieved from others doing this has all been positive. This practice is not approved in some countries so it may be a while before it becomes more widespread but the evidence for its effectiveness is good. I will have blood tests in a couple months to see how my hormones measure using subcutaneous injections. My doctor is so interested he is giving me the tests for free.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

Day 8

I shot another 40 units of cyp. Everything is good.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

So far so good but the real test will be seeing how much volume you can comfortably shoot. I am hoping for 1/2cc per inject at some point.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

Man, if I can tolerate larger volumes I will. In the trial they shot 1/2 cc once weekly SC, so 1/2cc sounds doable. If I shoot 1/2cc every day with cyp I can get 700mg per week which would be decent. I think what I will do next is increase the volume and shoot every other day and see how the depot feels. If the depot does not build up as a lump under the skin too bad I will go every day.


Day 9 
20 units cyp no problems SC.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

Day 10
30 units, 60mg subcutaneous cypionate injection. I have increased the volume 10 units to see how the depot feels. Still no problems.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

I cannot see anything unusual at the 10 injection sites around my abdomen. I can feel a very slight inflamation about the size of a dime under the skin in a few places. It is very small and only detectable when I gently press on the injection site. It is only in a couple of them and the rest are not inflamed at all. I like the protocol and will experiment with it some more.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

I skipped yesterday's administration so I could experiment with larger volumes of Cypionate. I shot 40 units/80mg subcutaneously this morning with no problems so far.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

In the first post the trial used 1/2 cc every week. Based on this I think that is a totally appropriate volume. I am still experimenting but I am guessing that's about as much as will be comfortable. 

I have been reading various methods for SC injects and it seems 3 injects a week is common with doctor recommendations but I have gone every day to see for myself. I also have been in contact with others who are using higher concentrations of aas. One patient is using 300mg/ml enanthate for his SC injections so that a larger mg can be injected with a smaller volume.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

Pinned 50 units of cypionate subcutaneously today. Largest volume so far. No problems.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

Shot another 1/2 ml today SC and all went well except for a slight burning sensation.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

The only issues I have had were slight bumps under the skin where the depot sits before dissipating.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

To be honest I prefer the IM injects because you feel like the testosterone is hitting you where the SC injects just feel like I am natural. I think for guys running HRT or older patients who want more comfortable injections SC is the way to go but for running cycles IM is better in my humble opinion.


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2009)

Ok, that was my log. In the end I decided I liked IM better than Sub C. If I do this again I will use 300mg/ml enanthate so that smaller volumes can be injected. The bumps under my skin were annoying so less volume would be desirable. This is a great method for a cruise or female application.


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## Built (Dec 28, 2009)

Now this is interesting - when I inquired about this just two months ago, a doctor-friend of mine assured me that injecting into the fat would lead to tissue necrosis. 

Good to know this is not the case.

Heavyiron, do you know how SC affects half-life pharmacokinetics? I know you read the same studies I do and factors like injection volume, choice of oil vehicle and muscle site affect half-life considerably. I wonder if SC halflife is shorter, or longer than IM?


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## heavyiron (Dec 28, 2009)

Built said:


> Now this is interesting - when I inquired about this just two months ago, a doctor-friend of mine assured me that injecting into the fat would lead to tissue necrosis.
> 
> Good to know this is not the case.
> 
> Heavyiron, do you know how SC affects half-life pharmacokinetics? I know you read the same studies I do and factors like injection volume, choice of oil vehicle and muscle site affect half-life considerably. I wonder if SC halflife is shorter, or longer than IM?


I think onset of action may be slowed with subc.


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## Built (Dec 28, 2009)

Okay so it would extend the halflife a bit. That's not really a problem if there's more frequent administration. I'm thinking it may be of use to frontload with an IM shot to get things going before taking it to the daily SC shots. I'd hate to think of a SC frontload! Ouch!


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## heavyiron (Dec 28, 2009)

Built said:


> Okay so it would extend the halflife a bit. That's not really a problem if there's more frequent administration. I'm thinking it may be of use to frontload with an IM shot to get things going before taking it to the daily SC shots. I'd hate to think of a SC frontload! Ouch!


That sounds reasonable to me.


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## urbanski (Dec 28, 2009)

Built said:


> Now this is interesting - when I inquired about this just two months ago, a doctor-friend of mine assured me that injecting into the fat would lead to tissue necrosis.
> 
> Good to know this is not the case.



i didnt guarantee that. i said i was worried about it and i still am. 
i'm glad the OP decided to test on himself, but I wouldnt. not with oil. 

the study posted also mentioned fairly steady plasma levels over time but its a very cursory glance. no mention was made of sides like tissue damage. also they didnt compare plasma levels versus IM and how close SC came to therapeutic levels. you'd also need to study absorption across a variety of body types to gauge absorption, and then figure out where a body's most vascularized fat is.


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## heavyiron (Dec 28, 2009)

BTW, I just finished a run with Tren Ace Subc. No Tren cough for the first time ever. YAY!


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## dr pangloss (Dec 28, 2009)

heavyiron. said:


> BTW, I just finished a run with Tren Ace Subc. No Tren cough for the first time ever. YAY!


 

I only shoot sub cutaneaously now.  As i had told you earlier, i have never had a problem with hitting a vein.


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## Built (Dec 28, 2009)

Urb, thanks for that. I am, at this moment, cautiously optimistic. Heavyiron, why do you figure you didn't get tren cough this time?


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## heavyiron (Dec 28, 2009)

dr pangloss said:


> I only shoot sub cutaneaously now. As i had told you earlier, i have never had a problem with hitting a vein.


Yup, your experience with subcutaneous aas adminstration was great to hear when I first looked into this. I have met a few guys who love subc. online.

Have you ever tested Total T while using this method?


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## heavyiron (Dec 28, 2009)

Built said:


> Urb, thanks for that. I am, at this moment, cautiously optimistic. Heavyiron, why do you figure you didn't get tren cough this time?


I am guessing the slower release to the blood stream but I have zero scientific evidence. Just a guess.


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## VictorZ06 (Dec 28, 2009)

heavyiron. said:


> I am guessing the slower release to the blood stream but I have zero scientific evidence. Just a guess.



That's correct.  Sub-q takes longer to hit the bloodstream.

Intramuscular injections are a preferred method of delivery for many drugs as this method provides a faster rate of absorption than subcutaneous administration.

/V


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## urbanski (Dec 29, 2009)

it will be slower indeed....leading one to worry about subtherapeutic plasma levels, and also uncertainty about when the cycle is "over" and PCT needs to begin. you could be leeching this stuff for months.


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## heavyiron (Dec 29, 2009)

urbanski said:


> it will be slower indeed....leading one to worry about subtherapeutic plasma levels, and also uncertainty about when the cycle is "over" and PCT needs to begin. you could be leeching this stuff for months.


The plasma levels were measured with subcutaneous T administration and they were stable.

I think it is also true of IM injects. Most thread parrots think they know when to start PCT or when the ester clears from an IM course but the truth is they have no idea without labs. I have seen labs where guys were still under the influence of Testosterone for months after an IM aas cycle.


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## VictorZ06 (Dec 29, 2009)

Another note; IM injections can sometimes cause a small (or large) abscess that contain AAS within.  The abscess could linger for months slowly releasing whatever is in there, into your blood stream.  This can be problematic when timing PCT as T is still lingering around causing your plasma levels to flux up and down.  

An abscess should be taken very seriously and I would not begin PCT unless I was certain that the abscess is gone completely.  If you get one bad, be sure to see a Doc ASAP and have it drained.

/V


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## heavyiron (Dec 29, 2009)

VictorZ06 said:


> Another note; IM injections can sometimes cause a small (or large) abscess that contain AAS within. The abscess could linger for months slowly releasing whatever is in there, into your blood stream. This can be problematic when timing PCT as T is still lingering around causing your plasma levels to flux up and down.
> 
> An abscess should be taken very seriously and I would not begin PCT unless I was certain that the abscess is gone completely. If you get one bad, be sure to see a Doc ASAP and have it drained.
> 
> /V


Good point, I have also wondered how much scar tissue plays a role in release times. Most sudies seem to base them off of a single inject in virgin muscle which is nothing like a user who has pinned many multiple times.


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## VictorZ06 (Dec 29, 2009)

heavyiron. said:


> Good point, I have also wondered how much scar tissue plays a role in release times. Most sudies seem to base them off of a single inject in virgin muscle which is nothing like a user who has pinned many multiple times.



I'm not sure how much of an effect scar tissue plays, but that is another good reason to try and hit various injection sites, just in case there an issue with hardened tissue.  I would also guess that the longer the pin on the syringe, all the better.

/V


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## urbanski (Dec 29, 2009)

heavyiron. said:


> The plasma levels were measured with subcutaneous T administration and they were stable.
> 
> I think it is also true of IM injects. Most thread parrots think they know when to start PCT or when the ester clears from an IM course but the truth is they have no idea without labs. I have seen labs where guys were still under the influence of Testosterone for months after an IM aas cycle.



they were noted to be stable from week 1 to 8, i acknowledged that earlier, but with a very wide variation (27.46+12.91 nmol/l)...and no mention of IF that was a therapeutic range for that patient and no mention of why plasma levels varied nearly 50%. Was that variation in individual patients or across the cohort? Nobody would call a 50% variance within one person as "stable", so we need more details. And of course without labs one cannot truly determine when PCT is needed no matter the delivery route. That's one thing about orals, if the half life is 6 hours, the half life is 6 hours. PCT isnt hoping and guessing.


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## urbanski (Dec 29, 2009)

VictorZ06 said:


> Another note; IM injections can sometimes cause a small (or large) abscess that contain AAS within.  The abscess could linger for months slowly releasing whatever is in there, into your blood stream.  This can be problematic when timing PCT as T is still lingering around causing your plasma levels to flux up and down.
> 
> An abscess should be taken very seriously and I would not begin PCT unless I was certain that the abscess is gone completely.  If you get one bad, be sure to see a Doc ASAP and have it drained.
> 
> /V



that is interesting as well and may have been studied. i'd conjecture that an abcessed injection site would be a hostile place for the T. With the increased heat and inflammatory chemicals in the region I would wonder if the T wouldnt break down and indeed not leach out at all. 
A non-abcessed IM T injection will absorb and not be destroyed. I'm just unsure a SC T injection is being absorbed to any therapeutic degree.


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## heavyiron (Dec 29, 2009)

Sterile abscess's are another caveat. I have one right now. No infection, no heat just a lump in my glute.

Oral half lives also vary. There is an interesting study with anavar showing older populations have a much longer half life. The condition of organs would be another caveat to oral half lives. 

Labs are conclusive. Everything else is a cookie cutter guess.


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## urbanski (Dec 29, 2009)

heavyiron. said:


> Labs are conclusive. Everything else is a cookie cutter guess.



^^ that


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## dr pangloss (Dec 29, 2009)

heavyiron. said:


> Yup, your experience with subcutaneous aas adminstration was great to hear when I first looked into this. I have met a few guys who love subc. online.
> 
> Have you ever tested Total T while using this method?


 

no i haven't.  i know there is a bit of a lag compared to IM, it's likely simply related to the fact that you're injecting a hydrophobic compound into fat.


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## dr pangloss (Dec 29, 2009)

heavyiron. said:


> Sterile abscess's are another caveat. I have one right now. No infection, no heat just a lump in my glute.
> 
> Oral half lives also vary. There is an interesting study with anavar showing older populations have a much longer half life. The condition of organs would be another caveat to oral half lives.
> 
> Labs are conclusive. Everything else is a cookie cutter guess.


 

i forgot about that.  damn heavy, you are becoming the savant here.


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## heavyiron (Dec 29, 2009)

dr pangloss said:


> i forgot about that. damn heavy, you are becoming the savant here.


You are rubbing off on me


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## Sal Collaziano (Dec 30, 2009)

People have been doing subcutaneous oil-based testosterone injections for years. The only "issue" is higher than normal DHT. To avoid itchy red skin at the site of injection, put pressure on the area for 10-20 seconds after the injection.

Most people use "slin pins" and inject less than half a milliliter on a daily basis. It takes less than a minute to get the oil IN and about 10 seconds to get it OUT. It's no big deal and if you want to avoid any possibility of getting an abscess an inch and a half deep in muscle (which often means lancing and time away from the weights), this is a good idea.

Most people never get an abscess but most people don't fall off the ferris wheel either. I'd rather be the guy reading about it in the paper than the guy they're talking about in regards to some freak incident. Remember, you can be as cautious as God, but accidents happen and sometimes even the best companies who produce oil based testosterone make mistakes...


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## heavyiron (Aug 30, 2010)

Here is another study showing normal serum levels administering testosterone subcutaneously.

Saudi Med J. 2006 Dec;27(12):1843-6.

*Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pilot study report.*

Al-Futaisi AM, Al-Zakwani IS, Almahrezi AM, Morris D.
Department of Medicine, College of Medicine & Health Sciences, Sultan Qaboos University, Muscat, Oman. alfutaisi@squ.edu.om

*Abstract*

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low doses of subcutaneous testosterone in hypogonadal men since the intramuscular route, which is the most widely used form of testosterone replacement therapy, is inconvenient to many patients.

METHODS: All men with primary and secondary hypogonadism attending the reproductive endocrine clinic at Royal Victoria Hospital, Monteral, Quebec, Canada, were invited to participate in the study. Subjects were enrolled from January 2002 till December 2002. Patients were asked to self-administer weekly low doses of testosterone enanthate using 0.5 ml insulin syringe.

RESULTS: A total of 22 patients were enrolled in the study. The mean trough was 14.48 +/- 3.14 nmol/L and peak total testosterone was 21.65 +/- 7.32 nmol/L. For the free testosterone the average trough was 59.94 +/- 20.60 pmol/L and the peak was 85.17 +/- 32.88 pmol/L. All of the patients delivered testosterone with ease and no local reactions were reported.

CONCLUSION: Therapy with weekly subcutaneous testosterone produced serum levels that were within the normal range in 100% of patients for both peak and trough levels. This is the first report, which demonstrated the efficacy of delivering weekly testosterone using this cheap, safe, and less painful subcutaneous route.

PMID: 17143361 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## Arnold (Aug 30, 2010)

interesting.


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## jmorrison (Aug 30, 2010)

Nice read.  Curious what the benefits would be in relation to long esthers like Test E at 500mg/EW.  Would you still do 2 injections, or would you break the overal amount into staggered days?


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## unclem (Aug 31, 2010)

i would just do im injections and leave the subq alone. no disrespect to anybody but all that was said about time is true. subq goes slowly into bloodstream and im goes faster. halflives in older people is much slower than 20 yr olds. the liver is much older along with other organs as well. thats with all medications. it was a awesome thread. i had a good time reading it.


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## Ravager (Jun 25, 2011)

Great read.
Nice work Heavy, thanks for taking the time, as always, for us.


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## BigBadBen (Dec 7, 2011)

Heavy,

I just wanted to say that because of your thread and information that you provided I have been using this method for the past 3 weeks with great success and zero issues.

Doing 1ml of test cyp a week at 300/ml  I do three pins each .35ml

Thanks again.

Ben


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2011)

Great to hear brother! Glad you like it.


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## BigBadBen (Dec 7, 2011)

Quick question for ya Heavy... somewhat off topic.  I have no Arimidex or Aromasin for possible gyo.  Is it ok to sub Proviron instead at a low 25mg a day to keep gyno at bay?

Stats
Age 50
Weight 175
Height 5'9"
BF 15 and going down.

Also have been on GH for past 6 months, now on 5-6 iu total a day. Two pins, one on wake the other pre or post as I feel.

Thanks for your time and all the excellent info I am reading from your site.

Ben


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2011)

BigBadBen said:


> Quick question for ya Heavy... somewhat off topic.  I have no Arimidex or Aromasin for possible gyo.  Is it ok to sub Proviron instead at a low 25mg a day to keep gyno at bay?
> 
> Stats
> Age 50
> ...


An AI is way more powerful than Proviron. At your age you are probably going to see a rise in E2. Best to run a low dose AI.


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## BigBadBen (Dec 7, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> An AI is way more powerful than Proviron. At your age you are probably going to see a rise in E2. Best to run a low dose AI.


 
Thanks Heavy

Ben


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## the_predator (Dec 8, 2011)

Alot of great info here! Maybe this should be a "sticky"


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## heavyiron (Dec 17, 2011)

Bump!


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## BigBadBen (Dec 19, 2011)

Decide to try IM now to see if it makes a difference.


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## parrish02 (Dec 29, 2011)

Curious if anyone has tried breaking the weekly dosage into both IM and SQ  - for instance, if you were using 500mg/wk, break down to 250mg IM on saturday, and 125mg SQ on Tue/Thur. (feel free to vary dosage/days) Thinking of this for a straight Test C cycle (w/HCG/AI) 

Thoughts?


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## theCaptn' (Dec 29, 2011)

Why would you want to?


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## overburdened (Apr 9, 2012)

HEAVY, did you notice any E2 sides?  the reason I ask is because a good portion of the aromatase enzyme is located in fatty tissue.....  this would be the thing I would worry about doing any aromatizing aas subQ..


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## heavyiron (Apr 9, 2012)

overburdened said:


> HEAVY, did you notice any E2 sides?  the reason I ask is because a good portion of the aromatase enzyme is located in fatty tissue.....  this would be the thing I would worry about doing any aromatizing aas subQ..



No but my doses were pretty low brother.


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## Grozny (Apr 9, 2012)

I  don't see a real strong advantage to this type of use though. It s trading the discomfort of many Sub-q injections for only minor BV improvements; plus, hepatotoxicity is still high as your liver will ultimately have to deal with it, regardless of how it was administered.


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## Grozny (Apr 9, 2012)

Other important point is that when u used some UG gear via sub-q, the rate of absorption will depend partly on the size of the particles of your finished solution; =>* l**arger is the particle size, slower will be the diffusion and absorption and vice versa.*


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## dirtwarrior (Apr 9, 2012)

How much delayed is the absorption SQ vs IM


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## PurePersian (Jun 4, 2012)

Here you go brother this is a hcg test below from Subcutaneous administration of human chorionic gonadotrophin - Serono Pharmazeutische Präparate GmbH
maybe it give you an idea on the differences.


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## VictorZ06 (Jun 4, 2012)

Ah, I remember this thread!!  Good stuff!!




/V


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## Calves of Steel (Jun 4, 2012)

I'm doing my next cycle IM and subq. Sometimes IM shots mess up my training so it's nice to be able to vary it up a bit and put less oil in the muscles. In my experience, if I do .5cc of the same gear subq and in the delt, I can't feel any stiffness at all in the muscle after 4 days, and it'll take 10 or so to feel no stiffness in a fatty depot. I would be careful about putting 19-nors or anything you would be afraid to have stick around for a long time subq though, because some spots absorb slower than others. I've had invisible lumps under the skin that went away in a few days, but I did have one that took 3 weeks once.


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## PurePersian (Jun 4, 2012)

Yeah sometimes my delt injections have that invisible lump too bro Its the worst sensitive for a few weeks. Earlier in the thread heavy took tren ace subq sounds like that would be def something I would look into!
pp





Calves of Steel said:


> I'm doing my next cycle IM and subq. Sometimes IM shots mess up my training so it's nice to be able to vary it up a bit and put less oil in the muscles. In my experience, if I do .5cc of the same gear subq and in the delt, I can't feel any stiffness at all in the muscle after 4 days, and it'll take 10 or so to feel no stiffness in a fatty depot. I would be careful about putting 19-nors or anything you would be afraid to have stick around for a long time subq though, because some spots absorb slower than others. I've had invisible lumps under the skin that went away in a few days, but I did have one that took 3 weeks once.


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## BFHammer (Jun 4, 2012)

I've been running subq and get a lump occasionally that a few treatments with a hot water bottle handle nicely.  The only one that freaked out was when I used a 22g instead of a slin pin, I'm guessing it just went in too fast  Since I"m TRT I'd prefer doing IM as little as possible since it's 5 more decades of it.


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