# New and need some help



## Katia7 (Apr 30, 2003)

Hi,
I've been reading this forum all day today and still have some questions.  Wasn wondering if you guys could help.

A bit about me...
I'm 21, 5'0 and 110 lb (size1 or 2).  My goal is to loose weight (body fat) and size. I'm not looking to bulk up, just want to get back to my old size. I was 100 lb (size 0)  2 years ago and gained 10 lbs because of overeating and sometimes binging (even though I have been exercising).  And just can't seem to loose the weight now.

My workout is... 5 to 6 days of aerobics (usually step or kickboxing) and 1 body part per day doing endurance workout (low weight hi rep).

My questions:
1) According to "multiply weight by 10-12", I need 1100-1320 cals per day.  With so few calories how should I divide that into 5 to 6 meals?

2) Since I'm not trying to cut, just trying to loose some weight/fat, what's my protein/carb/fat ratio be?  And should I still avoid all the fruits except the once listed in the Nutrition FAQ section?

3)How should I spread out my cals and protein/carbs throughout the day?  I workout at 3:30 or 5 (depands on when I get off work).

Any help would be great   
Thanks


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 30, 2003)

I just want to say Welcome to the board 


Katia...there are many here to answer your questions....I personally would like to know if you know your BF (Bodyfat), percentage?  Also, how many meals a day and what are you eating now?

DP


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## lina (Apr 30, 2003)

Hi Katia! 

Welcome to IM!

You will like it here!


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## Katia7 (Apr 30, 2003)

I don't know my BF%. It's not too high, but I do have some jogle, especially around my stoomach and inner theighs.  I eat about 5 to 6 meals a day.  I eat mostly healthy things (lean protein, low fat, mostly whole grain carbs, vegies and fruit)... my problem is mostly sugar and ocasional white carbs.
The way I spread out my cals I don't think is the best way.  I try not to eat very little before my workout (4 meals each consisting of 100 cals) and end up eating large at night (2 meals of 300 to 500 cals).  I do that because I'm usually very hungry after working out even though I eat 30 min to 1 hr later.

I good day goes somethign likes this (good days haven't been happeneing much lately though):
Here's what I had today:
8:30 1/2c egg substitute w/ deli turkey, tomatoe and salsa
11:00 apple
2:00 1/2c light fruit yogurt w/ 1/2c Fiver One cereal
3:30 or 4:00 1.5c salad w/ 1/4c tuna, pickle and cal free dressing
4:40-6 workout --45 min of step interval aerobics + biseps
6:30 2c steamed broccoli, 6oz chicken, protein bar (needed somethign sweet)
7:30 1c white rice, 2c whole grain cereal (cereal has 200 cals, 10g sugar per 1 cup), is that OK?) w/ 1/2c light fruit yogurt


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 30, 2003)

Katia, a few more questions that may be useful for people to assist you.......and I do believe we can help provide you with a Healtly Meal Plan that will achieve some of your goals.....

And I'm sorry to be so direct, but it saves time and is important:

To help determine you level of BF....do you have abs, describe please?  Are you amenorrhetic- (no menstrual periods)?

Right now, your meals show some caloric level and substance...but  because of your initial post, I need to ask you if you have ever had an eating disorder?  (Last 5 years?)

You do realize that exercising as you mentioned, (and I can't particularly see where you are overeating (although you may have binged more than we know?)), usually results in a good and healthy weight gain?......Clothes size means less than body composition.....you can look very good as a size 2-3, even 4 , at 100-110 pounds at your body weight and height? 

Brief answers to your questions:

1) Yes, or slightly more as the body becomes acustom to better food choices

2) You may have some leeway depending on you BF and Metabolism.....those fruits are best however, and combining fruit w/protein and fat (a whole issue here as you are fat phobic) will yield better results

3) Yes, that usually works better...there are exceptions, such as Post work out


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## Katia7 (May 1, 2003)

Thanks for taking time to help me...

I don't have abs (they're covered by fat), also my stomach is a bit extended (bloated) probably because of my eating habbits... I really need help in this area.  

I do have periods but they're not consistant (nevre have been).. and yes you guessed right... I had an eating dissorder 6 years ago. However it was only for half a year and as soon as I found out how dangerouse it is I gained the weight back.  However it led to many binges and a higher weight gain then I expected.  It's probably because of the binges that my stomach is extended.

I do know that muscle weighs more then fat.  But I've always exercised.  So I know the weight I've put on isn't just muscle.  Plus muscle doesn't jigle  

The day that I posted is one of my GOOD days.  However I do have binges where I consume up to 2,000 calories at once.  Although the food I binge on isn't too bad it's still a lot of calories to consume at 1 meal and I feel really sick after.  I usually have 3 to 5 good days and then binge.  On the days I binge I also dont' workout... too sick to.

If you could help that would be great


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## Dr. Pain (May 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Katia7 *_
> A bit about me...
> I'm 21, 5'0 and 110 lb (size1 or 2).  My goal is to loose weight (body fat) and size. I'm not looking to bulk up, just want to get back to my old size. I was 100 lb (size 0)  2 years ago and gained 10 lbs because of overeating and sometimes binging (even though I have been exercising).  *And just can't seem to loose the weight now.
> .....
> ...







> _*Originally posted by Katia7 *_
> 
> I do have periods but they're not consistant (nevre have been).. and yes you guessed right... I had an eating dissorder 6 years ago. However it was only for half a year and as soon as I found out how dangerouse it is I gained the weight back.  However it led to many binges and a higher weight gain then I expected.  It's probably because of the binges that my stomach is extended.
> 
> ...




Katia......for starters...and please veiw this as constructive critism that is needed before we can start on a program w/you, we only want to help here...you have provided enough info to draw some conclusions, please correct any inconsistencies or incorrect assumptions....

Your BF is relatively low.....judging from what you have said and the inconsistent menses....maybe 12-13%, with the start of some abdominal fat distribution from the sugars you are eating...it would be helpful to know what your parents look like, and if your mom/dad have changed in the last few years, esp abdominally (body type) ?

You are doing excessive cardio because you feel that it controls your BW..but it hasn't been working in conjunction with the binging, and less than optimal diet?


*And just can't seem to loose the weight now.
.....

My workout is... 5 to 6 days of aerobics (usually step or kickboxing) and 1 body part per day doing endurance workout (low weight hi rep).*

I know you came here for help....but you have to admit that the excessive cardio and low calorie, low fat approach IS NOT working for us to have a chance to correct that?


You have been on some type of "Diet" for years...your former disorder, (and our compliments on overcoming it  ) has left you with some form of what we call "Body Dysmorphia"......You spend some amount of time each day....not liking your appearance, and no matter how lean,  you do not feeling that you are lean enough?  (Not to worry, many of us here have a touch of this, we just need you to acknowledge this if it true)  Is this true? 

If you could answer those questions please? 


Now some other info.........you mention:




> Since I'm not trying to cut, just trying to loose some weight/fat



...and



> I'm not looking to bulk up,





> So I know the weight I've put on isn't just muscle.  Plus muscle doesn't jigle




Which show you have an understanding somewhat as to body composition, we honestly don't care about BW (bodyweight), if you are at the desired Body Composition....your pants/dress size is also less important, especially now that you exercise and you are older and more mature...SO you can not USE THE SCALE ANYMORE, we are just gonna clean up your program, STOP the binging (low calories, low dietary fat is partially to blame for that). 

Please understand that......


 You will NOT bulk up, but you have to understand that muscle, as in lean body  mass, is important, your cardio and lite weight training is not helping that.....LBM (lean body mass) is your metabolism, it helps you to burn BF, so we need you to look at things in a different perspective, again, you will not get bulky, just more toned, less jiggle....are you ready to proceed? 

Two more things:

A pound of muscle weighs the same as a pound of fat, both being one pound...they just occupy different volumes 

...and would you please PM me  (privacy) more details concerning what happened 6 years ago...I want to know how low your BW went and for how long...and what kind of treatment if any besides your realiztion you received? Please...it will stay between us?  If you feel comfortable with it in the open instead of a PM, that is ok too 

DP


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## Katia7 (May 1, 2003)

I'll answer some questions here and then I'll PM you about the other stuff...
My parents... my dad is really thin--5'10 120lbs (mostly because he has digestion problems and can't eat much).  My mom's side of the family is really big (fat), my mom is the thinnest one out of her family because she watches what she eats, she's about 5'1, 145lb.
No one in my family has an exteneded abdomin like I do.  As far as my dad's body type.. he's too thin for me to tell... seems like he might be a ruler.  And my mom I think she gains more in her legs... but she has fat all over so it's hard to tell.  As far as my body type... I always had a butt that sticks out but no hips.  I mostly gain weight in my stomach and inner theighs.

About the cardio... I think it WOULD be working if my eating habbits weren't so bad.  However I have lowered it and added some weight training in the past 4 months or so.

As far as "Body Dysmorphia"... I don't think tat I really have that.  I mean sometimes I look at my self and don't like what I see... but it's not very often.  Actually untill the last 10 lb weight gain (which I got through binging) I really liked how I looked.  It wasn't perfect, but who is?

You're right.. I don't really care what I weigh.  Honestly not even sure if I weigh 110 or slightly more.  The last time I was at the Dr's, they said 110lb.  I mostly care about the size and shape I am.  Meaning... there are women who have almost no body fat but are quiet large... that's not what I want.  I just want to slim down and get rid of the jigle and the extended abdomin.

About the rest of the stuff... about to PM you.


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## Dr. Pain (May 1, 2003)

Katia, I received your PM but have to bolt now...and I will reply later.....the main screen will tell you when you have replies, follow it back to how you wrote the first one (your concern about knowing when).....it was very informative, and I have a lot of experience in this area...but you have to be trusting...you confirmed a lot of what I was thinking.........

If you do want to go public with this, I think it wil help several members , guests and maybe their children...you seemed comfortable discussing it in private...if you don't, no big deal, it will remain confidential, we will proceed in any case 

We will have a program and some suggestions for you by tonight....no binging in the meantime  

Again, Welcome to IM 

DP


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## Dr. Pain (May 1, 2003)

Katia...I'm sorry I ran out of time tonight, I did receive your PM and I have thought a lot about your situation....I will be able to concentrate more on you in the morning, have a good evening 

DP


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## Dr. Pain (May 2, 2003)

K.....Katia......here a general overview, hopefully it will answer some of the questions/problems from you PM's

First...you need to realize what you are doing isn't working, partly because of the binging, and the "White Foods" as you call them (Sugars)...but alos because of the excessive cardio, and less than adequate food choices......

Working out at home, it is possible to attain your goals, but you should consider a gym membership if it is at all feasible....hopefuly you are not having body image problems that keep you from that....your replies to me sound like you have your head screwed on right since the disorder, and just some lagging effects.....

Understand that too much cardio, depletes, glycogen (fuel) for your body, esp only w/4 100  calories meals before hand, and you, a smaller person, which means smaller liver and less glycogen...your body has no choice but to secrete glucagon and look towards catabolizing muscle tissue.  It's this LMB (lean body mass) that burns fat.  So in essence, you are compromising your body's abilities to burn fat:

Read more on cardio here:  (follow all the links please)

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=14233

Next, you ask about working abs and bloat....working your abs will not make them bulky and your stomach larger....not unless you put on muscle quickly...and most women don't (although some do, those with good genetics)  So include 2-3 exercises for 2-3 sets, 2-3 times a week.  

The bloat is mainly form the sugars in your Nutrtional program......not only does eating sparsely all day make your body think it's in "Starvation Mode" and makes it want to store fat when it finally gets food.....judging from your mom, you have a very small touch of insulin resistance....so the sugars you eat, rice, yogurt, etc....and causing some bloat and slow abdominal fat acclumulation

Read about that here:  (read as much as you can there)

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=5121

Now, since with binging...you actually have average weekly calories a little higher than the meal plan you showed us, and since you are already at 6 meals a day.....we just need to get rid of some of the sugars, make each meal more equal in calories and macronutrients...and space them accordingly....every 2.5 to 3 hours a part.

Fat and fiber are going to become your best friends...we have to introduce fiber slowly because of the intestinal thing you mentioned.. so veggies you know you can cope with and , apple, berries, or grapefruit as the only fruit...we MUST up your FAT intake to PREVENT these CRAVINGS,,,,,,,,,

So read some more....look at the  women's plans...get meal ideas, understand fats, carbs and insulin, and meet back here...OK? 

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6621&highlight=female+meal+plan

Know that at first we were reluctant to give you a meal plan, for fear that you do not need to diet.......but we feel that these plans present a healthier way of eating and better food choices than you are currently making! 

Good Luck! 

DP


PS, I reiterate, learn about fat...you have to eat fat to lose fat, and it will stop the cravings!


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## Katia7 (May 3, 2003)

WOW that was A LOT of GREAT info.   Thank you so much.
I have just a few more questions (hope I'm not anoying you  )

About cardio... I understand that it shouldn't be more then 30-45 min 3 to 4 times a week when trying to loose fat (am I right?).  Is it any type of cardio?  All of the aeronics classes are about 45 min to 1 hr long and some kickboxing classes are even longer.  So is it different when it comes to aerobic classes as appose to things like running?

Also... a lot of dancers are really thin (have very low body fat), and they dance (cardio) A LOT, what do you think on that?

I know that cardio should be done 1st thing in the morning (before you eat). However on weekdays I work and can only workout after work...  what should I do about that (avoid eating sertain things, or avoid eating # of hrs before, if so how many?)

Weight training...  is it better to do it after cardio or before?
And is it OK (on weekends) when I do cardio 1st thing in the AM  (before I've eaten) to do weights then too, or should wait till I eat and do it later on the day?

Diet... I read that I should avoid all the cereals... but I was wondering if Fiber One is ok (no sugar, 14g of fiber)?  
Also canned soup like Cambells, Progresso, and Healthy Choice?  Yogurt... I eat the light fruity kind... it has the same amounth of sugar as plain yogurt... so is that OK?  

On an everage, how soon do you think I will see results?


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## Jodi (May 3, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Katia7 *_
> WOW that was A LOT of GREAT info.   Thank you so much.
> I have just a few more questions (hope I'm not anoying you  )
> 
> ...


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## Katia7 (May 3, 2003)

> Runners are thin too but they have no muscle. Cardio burns away your muscle. Read that link DP has for you.



I really don't want to build muscle (like body builders) I just want to tone up and loose the fat.  Should I still be doing so little cardio?



> Try 20-30 mins moderate cardio on the Treadmill, bike, Elliptical. Or you could try my new personal favorite jumprope. Cardio is anything that gets your heart beating faster and it doesn't have to be a class. Personally I hate those classes



I actually love aerobic classes (I actually use aerobic videos), so I was wondering if it's OK to do a full class/video. or is it still too much?



> Milk also has too much sugar.



So is cottage cheese not OK eather since it's made out of milk?


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## Dr. Pain (May 3, 2003)

First of all, really EXCELLENT Jodi 

Katia, listen to what Jodi says.  Also, I think you need to reread the cardio thread w/links 





> _*Originally posted by Katia7 *_
> I really don't want to build muscle (like body builders) I just want to tone up and loose the fat.  Should I still be doing so little cardio?
> 
> *Doesn't just happen, esp to women, it takes years of work...don't worry about this, you want more LBM so you burn more fat......and you want to wean off off of cardio while both improving Nutrition AND, increasing the amount of time and intensity you spend resistance training.  This is important to keep your metabolism stoked, and replace some of the calorie expenditure from less cardio!
> ...


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## Katia7 (May 3, 2003)

Here's what I had yesterday and today... rip it apart as much as it needs to.

yesterday:
8:30
1/4c oatmeal w/ splenda and sinamon

11:30
apple

2:00
salad w/ 1/4c tuna, pickle, and no calorie dressing (no sugar no fat)

400-5:30 WORKOUT: biceps, back, and abs with an interval aerobics tape

6:00
steamed broccholi
1/2c crab imitation, thin slice of smoked salmon, 2 slices of deli turkey
eggplant ikra (made out of eggplant, carrots, and some vegetable oil)

7:30
apple w/ 3 Tsp peanutbutter

today:

9:30
Cardio: kickboxing

11:00
3/4c yam w/ Atkins syrup (no calories, made w/ splenda)

1:00
imitation crab w/ tariyaki saucce ( 15 calories, 2g sugar)
broccholi and colyflour

4:30
chicken breast w/ tariyaki sauce
eggplant
apple w/ 2Tbs peanutbutter

it's 5:30 now...
thinking of doing leg work today or triceps chest and shoulders???

and then 1 more meal


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## Dr. Pain (May 3, 2003)

PLEASE REREAD THIS THREAD AND ALL OF THE SUGGESTED READING!




> _*Originally posted by Katia7 *_
> Here's what I had yesterday and today... rip it apart as much as it needs to.
> 
> yesterday:
> ...



Good Luck! 

DP


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## Katia7 (May 3, 2003)

I read all the links you posted (took me total of 5 or 6 hrs  lol), they were great   I just want to make sure that the foods I eat (that weren't posted there) are OK.

Also, I was wondering if you could suggest a workout and nutrition program for me (Jodi mensioned something about that). 

 I don't have a gym, but the videos I used are pretty advanced and the instructor is great (hits the muscle groups really well).  I'm just not sure how I should rotate these videos.  I have 3 videos that I started to use for weight work: 
1)back, biseps, and abs
2)chest, triceps, and shoulders
3)leg work
4)total body
I have a couple more but was suggested to start with these since she explains the form really well in these. 

If you're interested in seeing what I'm talking about they are found at www.cathe.com

Thank you so much for all the help... I'm learning A LOT


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## Dr. Pain (May 3, 2003)

1)back, biceps, and abs

2)leg work

3)chest, triceps, and shoulders

Rest one to 2 days...then start over

By the third time you do these tapes/program, you need to change as too much adaptation occurs...consider a gym.....or at least getting a swiss ball and some dumbells......later I will look for the W/O's w8 made for Hammer and others for home use


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## Katia7 (May 3, 2003)

I'm only alowed 1100-1200 cals (10-12 times the body weight, am I right?). How can I add all that food to my diet and still stay within my calorie range?


> 9:30
> Cardio: kickboxing
> 
> EAT FIRST, not eating says to you body, she is gonna starve, store EVERYTHING AS FAT!



I thought I should do cardio 1st thing in the AM before eating, so that the body would burn fat.


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## Katia7 (May 3, 2003)

> occurs...consider a gym.....or at least getting a swiss ball and some dumbells


I have dumbells... I currently use #5, #8, and #10... can't go any heavier for now.


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## Dr. Pain (May 3, 2003)

Can you lift the corner of a chair or couch to clean/get something from under it?

Katia...I'm almost 100% sure you could use 12, 15, even more pounds for pressing, rowing, shrugging....we don't do countless reps like on a video...we only do 8-12 reps in most cases


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## Katia7 (May 3, 2003)

hmmmmmmmm... a corner of a chair.. yeah... a couch.. I'm not so sure  lol

The videos I do are mostly endurance workouts though.  I have a gym that I can go to (at my school)... it's just too far from me and on weekdays I just wouldn't be able to get there.  However on Saturday I think I could drive overthere.  Do you think 1 going there 1 day a week would be OK in addirion to the videos.  

However I'm totally clueless on what exercises to do, how many reprs/sets.  So if you could suggest something that would be great.


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## Dr. Pain (May 3, 2003)

Katia..yes one or two days are better than none..the chair or couch was about you being stronger than you think you are 

I will get you a link tonight that will explain different exercises to you...and I was suggesting doing a "program" at home that didn't involve tapes, but a swiss ball and DB's 

Katie64...if you are listening..and I know you are   Would you share some of what w8 gave you w/Katia please?


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## Katia7 (May 3, 2003)

That would be great, thank-you so much.
Cant's wait


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## Dr. Pain (May 4, 2003)

http://www.exrx.net/Exercise.html


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## Katia7 (May 4, 2003)

Thank you that was very helpful.  So is aerobic exercise completely pointless, unless it's HIIT?


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## Dr. Pain (May 4, 2003)

NO..the bigger point here is that reisitance training helps burn fat by helping you keep LBM, and if you are going to do cardio for health or fat loss, then a limited amount of HIIT, and or HIIT and Traditional cardio may be useful WITH your RESISTANCE program.

Trouble is with a person that has done excessive cardio like yourself..the body, your body, has  ADAPTED to cardio, and it is LESS useful for fat loss than NUTRITION!  (whether hit or traditional)


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## Katia7 (May 5, 2003)

So far I've added more weight training and increased my weights.  

And I'm staying away from carbs (unless they're whole grain) and fruits (except apples, grapefruit, and berries).  I still eat light yogurt (no fat no sugar--the only sugar it has is lectose)... hope that's OK.

yesterday:

Workout: chest, shoulders, and triceps + 30 min of cardio

12:00
1/2c egg substitute + 2 silces of deli durkey

4:30
4oz fish
2c broccholi & coliflour w/ no calorie dressing
apple

7:00
3oz chicken
3/4 c crab imitation w/ tariaki sause
1/2c mushrooms and onions cooked with a little bit of canola oil
1 slice rye bread
1slice wheat bread


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## eskimo515 (May 5, 2003)

I have been really impressed with the information that has been delivered on this post.  Although I do not have any of the issues being discussed, reading it through has helped me check myself and my strategy in the kitchen and in the gym.  Thanks for your help and Katia, good luck to you and thank you for sharing your story!


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## Dr. Pain (May 5, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Katia7 *_
> So far I've added more weight training and increased my weights.
> 
> And I'm staying away from carbs (unless they're whole grain) and fruits (except apples, grapefruit, and berries).  I still eat light yogurt (no fat no sugar--the only sugar it has is lectose)... hope that's OK.
> ...



Tremendous improvement Katia....we are gonna let you transition a bit before we trade out bread and yogurt (lactose in yogurt is nasty for fat loss)....however, you are still being "fat Phobic"......I suggested you get 10-12 grams of fat per meal...and GP suggested 55 grams a day.  If you had read the material, you'd know why. 

 Please work on this? 

Also, those meal times do not seen right, we both suggested 5-6  meals spread out during the day   Meal frequency is important, eating your first meal at noon is not good, unless you slept in....if you didn't it gave the body the message of "famine" (like your 4 X 100 calorie meals did) and made the body more prone to store fat, for this coming famine! 

Additionally...if you were up past 9:30, you should have eaten again...you're showing signs of "fearing food", not good.

DP


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## Katia7 (May 5, 2003)

Could you help me make a meal plan that I will follow as close as I can?
I think that my eating patter and what I eat is what's leading to constant binges (like today).  I'm still fat phobic... but I'm trying really hard... yesterday had some canola oil with mushrooms (I never ate canola oil before).  And have been having penutbutter (which I think I need to eliminate, because I like it too much and can never stick to 1 serving of it).  I'm trying  lol.


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## Katia7 (May 5, 2003)

Oh 1 other thing... on weekends... I workout as soon as I wake up because I can't workout on a full stomach and dont' really have time to wait 1 or 2  hrs after I eat.  Any suggestions about that?  I can't wake up any earlier eather since I go to sleep uaully around 3AM on weeknds after going out.


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## Dr. Pain (May 5, 2003)

Katia...I will have to get back to you in a few hours, with a meal plan and suggestions.  See your other post for  why I tell you to stop being Fat Phobic......

If, you're out to 3 AM, can we assume you are drinking, or drinking/eating? 

..and we would suggest a shake, 30-45 minutes prior to W/O


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## Katia7 (May 5, 2003)

I know I know!!! I'm guilty!!!  Have been fat phobic for too long and now just don't even know how to add fat and still stay within my calories.  The only fat I've ever had is from not so healthy things (ice cream, chocolate...etc).



> If, you're out to 3 AM, can we assume you are drinking, or drinking/eating?



Nope not at all... I never ever drink.  And don't eat when I'm out eather... I'm never hungry that late at night 



> ..and we would suggest a shake, 30-45 minutes prior to W/O



I've never had shakes before.  Can I workout right after I drink it?  It won't make me sick while working out?  And can you suggest one for me (preferebly chockolate?   .. maybe that will actually help me with my craving for sweets and carbs.

I also have the info on the workout videos that I told you about.  I increased my weights from #5 to #8 and I'm really sore today, so I think that's a good weight for now.
Not sure if I should post it here or in the training forum or where?

Also, should I start a journal in the journal forum?  It would be great if you could drop in and comment on it .


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## Dr. Pain (May 5, 2003)

Ok, we'll work on the fat.....it's good that you don't drink, but  bad that you don't eat....we need your metabolism working better......I suggested a shake 30-45 minutes before a W/O, not right before.......Optimun, Prolab, EAS, MRM, all make economical Chocolate L/C Wheys...so does Next (Designer, just not as Chocolatey)....MRM Meassive Whey would be the first chioce for taste 22 P 4 C per scoop, Optimum Black or Beige Label the second choice....there are several more expensive ones I could recommend, Jay Robb and Beverly Muscle Provider being at the top of my list.......several posts here on proteins you can search

Yes, start a Journal please 

DP


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## Katia7 (May 5, 2003)

Where do they sell these shakes?

I'll start the journal tomorrow since all the crap I ate today is completely pointless to write down (some protein but most of it is junk..carbs, sugar ).


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## Dr. Pain (May 5, 2003)

Online, Health food stores and sports supplement stores!


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## Katia7 (May 5, 2003)

OK, I'll check it out ASAP, 
I'll shut up now and stop bothering you  lol.
Can't wait for the meal plan.


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## Dr. Pain (May 5, 2003)

K..Katia....we will move this when you start a journal....but for now we are going to try to get 6 balanced meals into you...2.5 to 3 hours apart (a recurrent theme)

After I outline your program, w8 is gonna step in and give you some optional meal plans and food choices......

KNOW..2 things

1) You can use the mirror, a tape measure, but NOT the scale for this adventure....you are exercising harder, and may gain 1-3 pounds of LBM from the exercise, however, we DO EXPECT you to lose fat.......so if you gain 3 pounds of muscle, and lose 3 pounds of fat....the scale IS NOT going to move!   We'd really prefer that you don't measure yourself against your Size "0" clothing either....your physique will look better, you don't have to be "Tiny" and you will not get "Bulky"  This is so much healthier, know that that is what is important 

2)  You must eat fat AND STOP BINGING!  Many of your hormones are metabolized from cholesterol, fat improves mood swings, and the right kind of fats can improve every cell in your body (EFA's).  Fat satiates, fat helps you burn fat...you need fat!


We would like you to try this program, as I said before, your average intake, w/binging is not far from it! 


120 P  60 C  60 F......1260 calories  6 meals

20 P 05 C 10 F  (shake)
20 P 20 C 10 F
20 P 05 C 10 F
20 P 20 C 10 F
20 P 10 C 10 F
20 P 00 C 10 F

We would like you to drink 5-6 Liters of water during the day, and use the exercise split I gave you earlier in the thread.

Cardio, we don't want to take this away  form you to quickly, even though it is not working, it a major source of engergy expenditure...so we want to go w/4 times a week....2 sessions of Traditional.......up to 30-35 minutes....just turn of the tape off

..and 2 HIIT, 20-25 minutes.........

We want to wean this down to 2 HIIT and 1 TC after your w8 has stabilized and your resistance  progran has been intensified a bit more, the resistance program will increase your metabolism!

DP


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## Katia7 (May 5, 2003)

OMG.. How in the world am I suppose to get 5-6 L of water down?  I can hardly get 2 in (and I dont' drink anything but water).

Another question... on weekdays I workout later on the day.  I always have to wait at least 2 hrs before I workout or I feel sick.  By the time I workout and take a shower it will probably be 4 hrs without food.  Is that OK?
Speaking of that, I should probably post my schedule...
Weekdays: 
8:30 breakfast
9-3 work (very sadinatry)
around 4 workout
go to sleep between 9 and 11 (unless I'm going out)

Weekends:
9 or 9:30 workout
11:00 breakfast
go to sleep around 9 or 11 (if I'm out -usually around 9- then I get home at 3) another thing.. I dont' like to eat right before going out, because I sometimes get bloated after eating.


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## Dr. Pain (May 5, 2003)

Sorry, w8 says she'll do her part in the morning 

DP


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## w8lifter (May 5, 2003)

Yes...I'll do this first thing in the morning for you....sorry


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## Katia7 (May 5, 2003)

OK I'll check in the morning,
Thank you


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## Dr. Pain (May 5, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Katia7 *_
> OMG.. How in the world am I suppose to get 5-6 L of water down?  I can hardly get 2 in (and I dont' drink anything but water).
> 
> Another question... on weekdays I workout later on the day.  I always have to wait at least 2 hrs before I workout or I feel sick.  By the time I workout and take a shower it will probably be 4 hrs without food.  Is that OK?
> ...



Wake up time would have helped...eat early, w8 to W/O

Try 4 L at first....
Try the Shake
Pack meals
Eat regularly, no excuses ...OK?


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## Dr. Pain (May 5, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Katia7 *_
> another thing.. I dont' like to eat right before going out, because I sometimes get bloated after eating.



w8, we are going to have to limit her fiber..see me in the morning


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## Katia7 (May 6, 2003)

Oh.. About fiber... I've been eating A LOT of it... vegies, Fiber One, everything whole wheat.  Even used to take fibercon and flaxseed (which actually give the opposite effect now so I stopped).

The meal plan isn't here yet... what should I eat for breakfast???? and what should I take with me to work????


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## w8lifter (May 6, 2003)

Meal 1 is supposed to be a shake (use 2 tbsp cream and 1/2-1 cup water, 1 scoop protein)

I'm working on the rest of it right now. Stop eating fibre one please


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## w8lifter (May 6, 2003)

And drink a litre of water....right now...you have 30 minutes to get it into you


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## Dr. Pain (May 6, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> Meal 1 is supposed to be a shake (use 2 tbsp cream and 1/2-1 cup water, 1 scoop protein)
> 
> I'm working on the rest of it right now. Stop eating fibre one please



Let's make that "too much fiber please", Katia...I hope you don't mind, but with IBS...that is some of what is making you distended and bloated.....we want some...from berries, apples, greens and veggies...by not an excessive amounf   Flax oil, not seed, and other fats will help


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## Katia7 (May 6, 2003)

I don't have a shake yet... will get some today.  What should I eat?
Drinking my water : )


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## w8lifter (May 6, 2003)

2 whole eggs + 2 whites
1/3 cup oats


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## Katia7 (May 6, 2003)

WOW that's a big breakfast...300 calories???  I"m on a 1200 calorie meal plan.


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## Dr. Pain (May 6, 2003)

That's about 23 P 18 C and 13 F, the oats have an important fat called GLA, and some very good soluble fiber........



This will stop catabolism from having slept 6-8 hours, start your metabolism going, and keep you satiated for 2.5 to 3 hours...if you want, start with 1/4 cup of oats....but Katia...you have told me that you can eat 1000-2000 calories of SHIT.....300 caloires of a healthy meal should NOT be a problem....... 


DP


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## Dr. Pain (May 6, 2003)

Aslo, we were gonna start you on a shake 21-22 P 10 F, maybe 5 C from some frozen strawberries........

That's s like 180- 190 cals...so the point is to get your stuff (shake mix)....and have it in a future meal


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## w8lifter (May 6, 2003)

Sample Meal Plan

120 P 60 C 60 F......1260 calories 6 meals

20 P 05 C 10 F (shake)
20 P 20 C 10 F
20 P 05 C 10 F
20 P 20 C 10 F
20 P 10 C 10 F
20 P 00 C 10 F

*Meal 1*

1 scoop protein powder
2 tbsp cream
1 cup water
4 frozen strawberries

*Meal 2*

2 whole eggs + 2 whites
1/3 cup (dry measure) old fashioned oats

*Meal 3*

2 oz chicken breast, weighed cooked
1/2 oz walnuts, (7 halves) or 1 tbsp peanut butter, natural

*Meal 4*

2.5 oz tuna
1 tbsp mayo (full fat) or 2 tsp flax seed oil
small apple

or

1 scoop protein w/ water
2 tsp flax seed oil
small apple

*Meal 5*

2 oz chicken & 7 walnut halves
1/2 grapefruit

or 

2 whole eggs + 2 whites
1/2 grapefruit

*Meal 6*

1 scoop protein w/ water
2 tsp flax seed oil

or

2.5 oz chicken
2 tsp flax seed oil


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## Dr. Pain (May 6, 2003)

Excellent, Katia, know that meals are interchangable to some extent, not meal 6 (just the no carb fact)....protein and fat sources are also interchangable......as are carb sources as long as they come form the shopping list.

So no more bread, dairy, sugary fruits, etc...you will see results in days......if you drink your 4 L and don't cheat/binge 

Thanks to w8 

DP


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## Katia7 (May 6, 2003)

I was out of eggs so I had 1/2c egg substitute w/ deli turkey and 1/4c oatmeal w/ Atkin's syrup (no cals made with splenda)... was that OK?  I don't think there was any fat in that though .

Another thing... I can't have nuts.. digestion problems... not sure about peanuttbutter.. sometimes it's OK and sometimes it's horrible.
Mayo.. just can't stand that stuff.
Cream... dairy high in fat (in general) also make my stomach sick.. never tried cream though, but I'd reather not even try (just incase).
What can I substitute these things with?

No vegies?  I can't have broccholi and coliflour anymore? : (

Also is it OK to switch those meals around or no?  Like protein shake... on weekdays since I workout at 4 or so, can I move the shake to meal 3?

Last question... How mych is 2 oz of chicken (I have nothign to weigh it with)?


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## w8lifter (May 6, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Katia7 *_
> I was out of eggs so I had 1/2c egg substitute w/ deli turkey and 1/4c oatmeal w/ Atkin's syrup (no cals made with splenda)... was that OK?  I don't think there was any fat in that though .
> 
> *You should have had fat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
> ...


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## Dr. Pain (May 6, 2003)

Additional comment...if you can eat chocolate, you can eat fat..get rid of those shit eggs, try cream, (it comes in 1/2 pints, so no big loss, it is low lactose...and you eat cottage cheese right?)

Mayo also comes in Safflower or Canola......try it on tuna...it's not horrible 

Katia....you have to eat fat......as w8 says, flax, olive, yolks, even cheese if we have to...I understands nuts...and we have no problem w/this?

You have to try to make this work....if you want to stop binging and reach your goal of being leaner in the tummy and upper thigh (not smaller, not emaci8ted)


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## Katia7 (May 6, 2003)

I started my journal... come check it out... I'll need A LOT OF HELP!!!
I added some olive oil to tuna salad (this is scarry!!!, but I'm trying).

Do regular stores sell flax oil or only health food stores?


> try cream, (it comes in 1/2 pints, so no big loss, it is low lactose...and you eat cottage cheese right?)


I'll try cream.  I looooove cottage cheese.  Can I eat that?  Where would that fit in the meal plan?


> Last question... How mych is 2 oz of chicken (I have nothign to weigh it with)?
> 
> Buy a scale


I can't afford a scale, I'm a poor student.  Any other way I can measure?   How many inches is 2 oz?


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## Dr. Pain (May 6, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Katia7 *_
> I started my journal... come check it out... I'll need A LOT OF HELP!!!
> I added some olive oil to tuna salad (this is scarry!!!, but I'm trying).
> 
> ...



w8 will give you some CC later...she knows the values 

Flax mostly at Health/Supp Stores...

Buy chicken pre-weighed and then portion...w8 uses "cooked chicken" at 8-9 P per oz, I use uncooked at 6 P per oz...you want 20-22 P 

DP


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## Katia7 (May 6, 2003)

I wasn't sure whether to ask you questions here or in my journal, so I decided to post them in my journal to keep this forum from getting so crouded with my questions. 
Can you please read it?
And I'm hungry!!!!!   I guess it's a good thing... burning fat???


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## w8lifter (May 6, 2003)

1/2 cup cottage cheese:

109 kcals
5 f
3c
15 p


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## Katia7 (May 7, 2003)

DP... if you're still online, I was wondering if you coul meet me in my journal.  I have questions (as usual  lol).


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## Dr. Pain (May 7, 2003)

Will try, running late


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## Katia7 (May 7, 2003)

DP... hope you're not too busy.. can you meet me in my journal?


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## Katia7 (May 7, 2003)

I've added fat.. had flaxoil, peanutt butter, and olive oild today.  I'm trying as hard as I can to follow what you told me. 
Is it possible for you to chat with me in my journal?


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