# What's considered low carb?



## r0dxx (May 12, 2012)

Hi,

I seem to get bloated and hold water pretty easily for some reason. 

I'm 195lbs, and doing a cut at 1,900-2,100 calories a day. I've been dropping 5lbs a month since 215lbs and haven't changed my calorie intake since. I'm just curious what carb range in grams a day would be considered "low-carb"? Also do you count carbs in everything for the count, or just carb sources? For example nuts have carbs, etc. 

I've been doing carbs in my first 3 meals, and it seems to be around 120-150g a day...

Thanks,

Brad


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## Goldenera (May 12, 2012)

Everyone's body is different. Depends on your blood type etc. some ppl do fine with ketosis or super low carb diets. 

I do not. I find I'm dead ass tired and more importantly It does nothing to lean me out.  My workouts suck and I barely fight through them. 

I'd say stick around 100-150 grams of carbs a day is enough where I can still lean out yet I'm not ready to suck someone off for a redbull lol. 

As far as gram counting yes ppl who do count would also factor in veggies etc towards the total carb count. 

I'd look more towards what u are eating then counting carbs( as long as u don't eat 300+ grams of carbs a day of course). Keep the sodium low, maybe eliminate dairy etc will yield a larger effect then carbs IMHO. dairy really bloats me up. 

Id adjust what u eat then start adjusting cals and cheat days etc to dial in that low bf look.


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## overburdened (May 12, 2012)

Goldenera said:


> Everyone's body is different. Depends on your blood type etc. some ppl do fine with ketosis or super low carb diets.
> 
> I do not. I find I'm dead ass tired and more importantly It does nothing to lean me out.  My workouts suck and I barely fight through them.
> 
> ...



^^^^^EXACTLY!  Goldenera knows his nutrition!!!

I'll add to this just a bit, without detracting from what he said, because he's on the money...

so you have been dieting for 4 months(5lbs/mo and 20lb loss..just doing the math..forgive me if its in your op and I missed it)

your metabolism is probably starting to take a crap about now, especially since you have been limiting carbs that long(taking a cheat day here and there kicks metabolism back into higher gear by causing your body to surge with certain hormones.. insulin being one.. normally you want to keep insulin at a lower level when dieting, but too long and your metabolism starts feeling the crunch)

take a weekend and eat... eat clean carbs, but eat... 300g or so a day for 2-3 days(this will kick your metabolism up a bit)
cut dairy!!! ALL dairy!!
if you are using whey protein, cut it out immediately!!!! it is highly insulogenic(don't want it for dieting... don't even use it for those 2-3 days, IT"S SHIT!!)
use egg protein at night, and post workout, use Carnivor(instead of whey).. you will get the fast protein(it's hydrolyzed beef) without so much insulin spike(Goldenera can be credited with the Carnivor... he turned me to it, and it is AWESOME!!)

other than that, just follow his advice.. It is great advice!  

note: to avoid having to take cheat days, and still keep metabolism in high gear you can cycle carbs(2 mod-high carb days. 3 mod carb days, 2 low-very low carb days ea week)... or something similar, there's a million ways to set the cycling up..


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## juiceball44 (May 12, 2012)

Very good stuff goldenera and overburdened

I am one of those people who blow up when eating high carbs and not a good blow up, think the marshmellow guy from ghostbusters lol

but I can also get away with dropping carbs super low and still have good energy and workouts. My outlook on dieting is always keep protein high no matter what from lean meat sources and egg whites. I than cycle carbs split up in a low, medium and high /"refeed" day. Now I have seen different ways of doing this like 3 low days, 2 med days, 1 high than repeat or 1 low, 1 med, 1 high than repeat. Any ways just got to find what works for you. I kind of just go by how I'm looking and I try to set up my low carb days on days I'm off from the gym

I like to try to keep my low days around 50g carbs or lower, medium 100-150g carbs, high days prob 300+ I dont count I just eat whatever I want

basically the point is to keep the metabolism guessing and keep it from slowing down.


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## overburdened (May 12, 2012)

juiceball44 said:


> Very good stuff goldenera and overburdened
> 
> I am one of those people who blow up when eating high carbs and not a good blow up, think the marshmellow guy from ghostbusters lol
> 
> ...


yes, everyone is different and you gotta find that 'sweet spot'...  
little tip... when you are eating a lot of egg whites, throw a whole egg or two in there... the whites alone are missing some aminos to make it a 'whole' protein... makes all the difference in the world just having 1 yolk for every 6 or so whites...


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## juiceball44 (May 12, 2012)

overburdened said:


> yes, everyone is different and you gotta find that 'sweet spot'...
> little tip... when you are eating a lot of egg whites, throw a whole egg or two in there... the whites alone are missing some aminos to make it a 'whole' protein... makes all the difference in the world just having 1 yolk for every 6 or so whites...



Not doubting you but where did you hear this? I use the carton of egg white you can drink by itself which is highly recommended as one of the best things for bodybuilding. 

A quick search here shows it is listed as complete - Complete protein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## overburdened (May 12, 2012)

*It's not as low as I had read previously... this may be due to diff in feed profiles now.. or I could have read faulty data before...
comparing wiki link and this data, egg whites are slightly low in : threonine, lysine, and histidine...  not massively, but slightly...
so, now that you brought this to my attention, I will revise my statement...  add 1 yolk to every 8-10 eggs...
btw, thank you for bringing this to my attention... I like to have fully correct knowledge in my head, not slightly incorrect...

Amino Acid Profile per 100g(Egg whites)*Alanine 5.49g Isoleucine 5.0g Serine 6.07g
Arginine 4.54g Leucine 6.80g Threonine 3.41g
Aspartic Acid 6.09g Lysine 4.64g Tryptophan 1.18g
Cystine 1.88g Methionine 3.01g Tyrosine 3.21g
Glutamic 10.89g Phenylalanine 4.94g Valine 6.02g
Histidine 1.67g Proline 2.92g Glycine 2.89g​


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## juiceball44 (May 12, 2012)

OK good to know, when I cook them I always throw in a few yolks anyways but sometimes in a hurry I just drink them.

So I'm interested in your point of view on no dairy or whey protein. I have always been back and forth on using them or not due to water retention but have not noticed any major difference either way.


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## overburdened (May 12, 2012)

WHEY IS SHIT!!!  I HATE WHEY....can you tell I don't like whey?

whey, in combination with other sources is ok(such as optimum's pro complex), but by itself???  haven't used it by itself in 10yrs, there's a reason why... 
I will write more on it tomorrow... gonna chill and watch a movie tonight, but I will devote  some time to this tomorrow.... it definitely is worthy of some time!


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## sassy69 (May 12, 2012)

"Low carb" is sort of - what are you trying to accomplish. So many people go on a "low carb diet" and really have no idea what they are doing. The point of low carb being too low to be useful is where you aren't low enough to go into ketosis (i.e. specifically intending to run a keto diet + refeeds)  but too low to make it sufficient energy for the demands you want to put on your body. I guess I'd probably qualify myself as similar to you - too much of carb or fat & I stall out. I've done extended duration / aggressive keto diets for contest prep & given up muscle and looked wiped out. Not a great result. Like you mentioned, I think carb cycling is an amazing approach where you're manipulating carb metabolism on a short-term cycle (e.g. 2-3 days) and refeeding before you actually stall out, but still getting enough to support stuff like a fucking heavy leg day.

On the flip side, I know many of us put 'how we feel" ahead of the growth strategy - so if you're looking to bulk, consider it an off-season and go ahead and expect to get fluffy. You many not be happy about losing your ab detail, but it will also let you go into a serious growth phase for a while. But then the art of it is to not get sloppy and you have to diet that much harder to get the results you want, e.g. for competition or summer. W/ carb cycles it is also an art to find the cycle that really meets your needs as there are many ways to schedule your carb intake. 

At the very least, unless you are specfically intending to do a keto diet, you need to be sure to get enough carb in to do what you want to do. Otherwise you're just setting yourself up for catabolism.


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## overburdened (May 13, 2012)

juiceball44 said:


> OK good to know, when I cook them I always throw in a few yolks anyways but sometimes in a hurry I just drink them.
> 
> So I'm interested in your point of view on no dairy or whey protein. I have always been back and forth on using them or not due to water retention but have not noticed any major difference either way.


ok, here it goes...

dairy will make you retain water... enough to notice? depends on how lean you are, and how your body, specifically, reacts to dairy... everyone is different, but everyone will hold water to some degree or another...

Whey protein, by itself, is crap IMO...
it is assimilated VERY QUICKLY, which can be a good thing, if taken advantage of the correct way.  But, most people use just whey, it is close to impossible to take advantage of it's 'good' effects without suffering from the 'BAD' effects..
Whey protein is highly insulogenic, so for dieting.. forget it!
for bulking, used in a blend(whey, casein, egg...) it has its uses, and can be effective at supplementing protein intake, especially post workout when a fast protein is desirable...

Here's the lowdown:
Whey is highly insulogenic and assimilated at a very fast rate... It is extremely anabolic for 20-30min... what supp companies fail to tell you, is that following that 20-30 min anabolic state, it causes a MASSIVELY  catabolic state(if there is not more protein coming on the tail end of the whey).  catabolic to the extent that any anabolic effect it had right before that is far outweighed!
so, it causes a massive insulin spike. it goes catabolic after 30 min(for a 2hr+ time period)...You don't want this shit if you are trying to lean out or stay lean!!

Protein blends:
if you use a blended protein(whey, casein , and egg.. or something of the sort) you will quell some of the insulin spike, though not much(which is fine if you are just straight bulking) and you will avoid the catabolic crash of the whey because the casein and egg will start to lend aminos at this point, and make the blend, in whole, last 4-6hours(of protein feeding to tissue) so it is pretty easy to eat a normal meal an hour or two following the shake and avoid any catabolic state.

If you are dieting, I would steer clear of the whey, period... there are a million other sources of protein out there...
I won't even get into my rant on why supp companies built whey up to be 'KING PROTEIN'...


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## juiceball44 (May 13, 2012)

Very good info

I use whey right now 1 scoop along with 1/2 cup of egg whites, should that be ok?

Also what do you think about using bcaa's? Any downside to them?


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## overburdened (May 13, 2012)

juiceball44 said:


> Very good info
> 
> I use whey right now 1 scoop along with 1/2 cup of egg whites, should that be ok?
> 
> Also what do you think about using bcaa's? Any downside to them?



really its all up to the individual... I wouldn't use it unless it was in a blend... or you add a lot more egg whites, and maybe some pb, to slow down the insulin spike a little
I think bcaa's are great... but, that all depends on how much one wants to spend on supps too...

I get them in this order)depending on how much I want to spend, first supp is first in line, most important....

multivitamin
milk thistle
flax oil
protein
preworkout(sometimes.... for the days I feel a little 'sluggish'  or post cycle, for a little pick me up)
krealkalyn
bcaa's


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## BIGBEN2011 (May 14, 2012)

so if i am dieting trying to loose weight get cutt i should not be drinking a post workout shake.i use myofussion which has whey and egg and casien with bcaa and other stuff so it says on the botttle.but i have noticed that i seem to get cutt better not having a shake after working out but every body says you have to have your post wokout shake.i eat a meal about 1-2 hours after working out.


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## Hell (May 14, 2012)

I tend to do 2 low carb day, less than 50, usually closer to 20 then on the 3 rd day, i have a 100 carb dinner.  Then low carb for 2 days then the weekend i loosen it up and enjoy myself but try not to go overboard.


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## Dale Mabry (May 15, 2012)

Low carb is generally referred to as <100g carbs per day.  Not everyone gets the same effect at that dose so some, especially the insulin resistant, would need o cut them lower to get the desired effect.  The desired effect of a low carb diet is keto-adaptation of the brain.  When you get the brain to run efficiently on ketones, you are less prone to hunger fluctuations.  The brain actually runs quite well on ketones, and it has been shown in studies that ketones improve brain neurogenesis, or re-wiring of the brain.  The appetite suppressing effect of a ketogenic diet is caused by this keto-adaptation.  When the brain constantly runs on glucose it requires 150g just for it's needs.  When some knucklehead decides to cut his calories to 1200/day and gets 50% of his energy from carbs, this provides precisely 150g.  When this same person decides they want to exercise, glucose is utilized and therefore the brain doesn't have enough so it enters a low-energy state and drives up appetite.  Ketosis is actually a positive state to be in, but having high levels of ketones in your urine is not, since your brain is obviously not using them if you are pissing them out.  It probably takes about 2 weeks of consistently<50g of carbs per day to force this adaptation quickly.


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## Digitalash (May 15, 2012)

Can you explain more why whey becomes catabolic after a certain time? I use it alot and never noticed negative water retention, I also almost always eat a meal with it and add fats like olive oil/peanut butter so maybe thats why


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## overburdened (May 15, 2012)

BIGBEN2011 said:


> so if i am dieting trying to loose weight get cutt i should not be drinking a post workout shake.i use myofussion which has whey and egg and casien with bcaa and other stuff so it says on the botttle.but i have noticed that i seem to get cutt better not having a shake after working out but every body says you have to have your post wokout shake.i eat a meal about 1-2 hours after working out.


post workout is one of the most important times to intake the correct nutrients.. and the least likely time for them to be stored as fat...  Try carnivor protein by musclemeds...

if you are working out with a decent degree of intensity, you shouldn't be storing fat from post workout(given you are taking in decent calories)


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## parsifal09 (May 15, 2012)

overburdened,

where is the scientific data to back these claims regarding whey??

I know for a fact guys such as dave palumbo recommend whey shakes in their diet plan. dave has even said you could just drink 6 shakes a day . not ideal, but acceptable


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## hypo_glycemic (May 15, 2012)

IMO their only good right after training until you can get a meal in.. Most whet peptides last 90 minutes before you secrete it in urine mostly.. I like hydrolyzed whey w/ a cup of oats right before training.. Otherwise it's all macro nutrients


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## lee111s (May 16, 2012)

I do carb cycling at the moment. On low carb days I keep below 30g, I often do 0 but sometimes you just need a little bit!! High carb days is closer to 250g with medium days around 130g.

Depends on what I'm lifting that day. Legs and back are high carb days where as shoulders and chest medium. Rest days are my low/no carb days.


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## overburdened (May 20, 2012)

Digitalash said:


> Can you explain more why whey becomes catabolic after a certain time? I use it alot and never noticed negative water retention, I also almost always eat a meal with it and add fats like olive oil/peanut butter so maybe thats why


eating the meal is preventing the catabolic 'crash'... a lot of people don't have chance or just don't eat in time to prevent the 'crash'.... I'll look up the study I got a good amount of that info I posted from and copy and paste... that way everyone can see the actual study...


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## overburdened (May 20, 2012)

parsifal09 said:


> overburdened,
> 
> where is the scientific data to back these claims regarding whey??
> 
> I know for a fact guys such as dave palumbo recommend whey shakes in their diet plan. dave has even said you could just drink 6 shakes a day . not ideal, but acceptable


I just replied to digital's post... I will look these studies up and copy and paste or paste a link....It's been years since I read all of it, but I'm sure with the power of the internet I can find them


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## overburdened (May 20, 2012)

this is going to take a while .... I've got to find the studies that originally published this 'fact about whey that supp companies don't want you to know'....  the only thing you get from google is ads for whey... It may take a few days, but I will find the study....I'm bound and determined now!!!


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## jimm (May 22, 2012)

ive ONLY ever used whey its some good shit lol! i read somewere last night infact that whey when mixed with milk can take 3-4 hours to digest? 

guess its time i invested in some other types of protein...


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