# Sodium Usniate????



## hardHITer001 (Nov 11, 2002)

Anyone have any experience with it? Do you think its safe? Can it be taken while using an ECA stack?

All I have found so far is old stuff from supplement companies saying how great it is, and the media saying it will kill you. 

As we all know both sides have a tendency to exaggerate.

Any input?


----------



## Robboe (Nov 11, 2002)

I've tried Usnic acid.

It's danger is dependant upon how dumb you are with it.

Yes, it can be used with EC.

It is an ATP uncoupler, much like DNP, but not as potent.

If you use it, make sure you know what you're putting into your body.

Don't jump up doses too quickly. 

Don't use a ridiculous dose.

I have some left. I used it for 12 days but came straight off at the site of a rash which hung around for a couple of days.


----------



## gopro (Nov 11, 2002)

I LOVE what it does, hate how it makes me feel...still I wish Lipokinetix was still available. It helped rip me up like nothing else, but it made me want to kill everyone I saw and it made me weaker in the gym. I felt much better when I combined it with creatine AND ribose...yes, ribose. Creatine on its own was not enough.

Although I still wanted to kill everyone, LOL.


----------



## hardHITer001 (Nov 11, 2002)

So what do you guys recommend as a max dose? How gradually should dosage be increased? What time of day did you guys take it?


Gopro,
I could see where creatine and ribose could help. How much of those were you taking in conjunction with the SU?

In the past I have cut creatine at about 6 weeks out. Did/do you use it close to show time?

Thanks again!


----------



## Robboe (Nov 12, 2002)

Sodium Usinate is the salt of usnic acid (some say more potent).

The SU in lipo was 200mg, right GP?

So if you're taking that thrice daily or so, that'll be 600mg throughout the day.

When on UA i was using about 1g happily, but once i pushed the 1.25g-1.5g region the rash came so i quit.

If i ever use the stuff again i'd never go over 1g a day.


----------



## gopro (Nov 12, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Sodium Usinate is the salt of usnic acid (some say more potent).
> 
> The SU in lipo was 200mg, right GP?
> ...


----------



## gopro (Nov 12, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by hardHITer001 *_
> So what do you guys recommend as a max dose? How gradually should dosage be increased? What time of day did you guys take it?
> 
> 
> ...



I took my dosages 3 times per day, spaced about 5 hours apart...like say 7am, 12 pm, and 5 pm. One dose was usually taken 30 minutes before cardio and one was usually 30 minutes before training.

I would start with no more than 100 mg per dose, 3 x per day. Every three days I would add another 100 mg per day. Go with this pattern until you reach a max dose (if all is well) of say 300 mg 3 x per day. This may be too much for me, but TCD was able to handle this amount.

As for the creatine and ribose. I took 10 g of creatine per day and 6 g of ribose...I took half in the morning and half post workout. This worked wonders. I kept this up until 2 weeks from my show and was shredded...any water I held was GONE by show time!


----------



## ZECH (Nov 12, 2002)

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70559&highlight=sodium+usinate

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56676&highlight=sodium+usinate


----------



## Robboe (Nov 12, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> 
> 
> > _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> ...




I'd never exceed 1g ever again. I was silly to try in retrospect.

Par Deus hit 3.2g of SU for a few days with no adverse side effects. Which is just crazy. I was amazed he publically mentioned it.


----------



## Twin Peak (Nov 12, 2002)

Rob, when did you take it and what effects would you attribute to it?


----------



## ZECH (Nov 12, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> 
> Par Deus hit 3.2g of SU for a few days with no adverse side effects. Which is just crazy. I was amazed he publically mentioned it.


 Rob, go back and read the post I posted on Caleb's side effects. They are there.....


----------



## Robboe (Nov 12, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> 
> Rob, go back and read the post I posted on Caleb's side effects. They are there.....



I briefly scanned it. What am i looking for here?


----------



## ZECH (Nov 12, 2002)

Headache, feel like passing out, sweating.......


----------



## Robboe (Nov 12, 2002)

I don't understand why you've quoted me though?


----------



## Twin Peak (Nov 12, 2002)

Misunderstanding.

Rob wanted to know if Par had any side-effects.

DG referred Rob to GENERAL side effects of UA.


----------



## Robboe (Nov 12, 2002)

I know Par suffered no adverse side effects. I've read his chronciles thread on avantlabs.

The effects of sweating and lethargy are to be expected.


----------



## ZECH (Nov 12, 2002)

You said he had no side effects. I think a pounding headache with sweats and feeling like your going to pass out is a side effect!


----------



## Robboe (Nov 12, 2002)

Par doesn't say anything about a pounding headache in the chronicles thread.

I know Par's real name is Caleb Stone, but he posts as par Deus on message boards - not by his real name.

Caleb on BBing.com (and avantlabs if you've noticed) isn't Par Deus.


----------



## ZECH (Nov 12, 2002)

Yeah, my bad. Not sure what I was thinking?? But over 3 grams a day? That's insane! I know some that have taken 600mg and had bad sweats and increased heartbeat.


----------



## cornfed (Nov 12, 2002)

Nothing wrong w/ an increased heart rate IMO  (to a degree)

I thought Lipo had 100mg, but I can check when I get home    he...he...he 

done 900/day w/ no unbearable effects, but no dnp-like effects either.  I liked it well enough though.


----------



## hardHITer001 (Nov 12, 2002)

Thanks guys!

So what kind of rash are we talking about? 

So, should I expect a decrease in strength if I use this stuff?

I???m going to place another order from 1fast today. Their service has been great!!!!!


----------



## ZECH (Nov 12, 2002)

He would be the one to ask these questions to....e-mail him..


----------



## cornfed (Nov 12, 2002)

I never had a decrease in strength.  I'd say that that was more due to diet and being lethargic from less carbs as many do, though I experience the opposite effect from carbs


----------



## Robboe (Nov 12, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by hardHITer001 *_
> Thanks guys!
> 
> So what kind of rash are we talking about?



A very unpleasant one. Itchy and unsightly. I looked like a plague victim.

If you notice it occuring, stop taking it. Not everyone will definately get it though.


----------



## gopro (Nov 12, 2002)

I never had any really adverse effects. The only things I was sure of was that I felt somewhat aggressive...I definitely lost some strength until I added creatine AND ribose...and I just generally didn't feel well.

I would not have gone any higher than 600 mg per day, especially along with the norephedrine, caffeine, yohimbe, and T2.

I DO feel you must be reponsible with this supplement...much more so than most others. I also think that this is a very individual matter...degrees of tolerance will vary alot among people, similar to clen and ephderine.

I also think that anyone other than those getting ready for a show would be stupid to use this stuff for any period of time.


----------



## Robboe (Nov 13, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> I DO feel you must be reponsible with this supplement...much more so than most others.




Very.


----------



## Twin Peak (Nov 13, 2002)

Rob, you guys keep saying this but I haven't heard why.


----------



## Robboe (Nov 13, 2002)

It can cook you from the inside out, much like DNP.

Anything that fucks about with mitochondria is not good.


----------



## gopro (Nov 13, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Rob, you guys keep saying this but I haven't heard why.



Well, it is one of the few supplements that can kill you rather quickly if you overdose. Take too much of most other supps and the worst thing to happen is stomach upset...take too much SU and you can say bye bye.

Also, the way it functions in the body makes it one of the more unhealthy supps on the market. The body does NOT appreciate what it does...thats why most feel like total shit on it!


----------



## Twin Peak (Nov 13, 2002)

Thanks both.


----------



## gopro (Nov 13, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Thanks both.



I think I speak for Rob as well when I say...TP, you are welcome!


----------



## hardHITer001 (Nov 14, 2002)

Well, aren???t I the rude one?

Yes, gentlemen. Thank you!

I placed yet another order to 1fast400. Mike is making a small fortune off me! I'll keep you posted on the results when my SU comes in.

p.s. The Monster Combo is going great! My weight is up 7lbs in 1 week! Some of that is sure to be water retention. But I???m going to check my BF on Saturday and hopefully there will be a lean mass gain as well.


----------



## gopro (Nov 14, 2002)

Is the SU coming in capsules? What mg amounts?


----------



## hardHITer001 (Nov 14, 2002)

100mg caps. 

I thought I might start with 200mg twice a day. Then add a third dose. Then gradually increase the dosage every 2-3 days.


----------



## gopro (Nov 14, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by hardHITer001 *_
> 100mg caps.
> 
> I thought I might start with 200mg twice a day. Then add a third dose. Then gradually increase the dosage every 2-3 days.



Either that or 100 mg 3 x per day, then start to add.


----------



## hardHITer001 (Nov 15, 2002)

.I guess I could go with many options. I just thought I would take it in conjunction with my ECA and initially I will only take 2 doses of ECA until I can tolerate a 3rd dose with out keeping me up at night.

I guess I could still take a 3rd dose of SU with out the ECA in the afternoon


----------



## ZECH (Nov 15, 2002)

Get ready for night sweats!


----------



## gopro (Nov 15, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by hardHITer001 *_
> .I guess I could go with many options. I just thought I would take it in conjunction with my ECA and initially I will only take 2 doses of ECA until I can tolerate a 3rd dose with out keeping me up at night.
> 
> I guess I could still take a 3rd dose of SU with out the ECA in the afternoon



Well, all I was saying was that I recommend that you start with single doses of only 100 mg each...especially with ECA. Best to start low, check your tolerance and then go up slowly. Everyone reacts differently so be careful.


----------



## Twin Peak (Dec 2, 2002)

And whats the update on the SU?  Come on HH, where is ya?


----------



## hardHITer001 (Dec 3, 2002)

Just getting started with the SU, so no real info yet. But I can already tell that combined with the ECA and Yohimbine my body temp is up. I just feel kind of sweaty all day.


----------



## kuso (Dec 3, 2002)

Keep us up to date on how you feel etc mate 

You should even start yourself a journal


----------



## gopro (Dec 4, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by hardHITer001 *_
> Just getting started with the SU, so no real info yet. But I can already tell that combined with the ECA and Yohimbine my body temp is up. I just feel kind of sweaty all day.



ECA, Yohimbe, SU...I'm sweating just writing it!


----------



## cornfed (Dec 4, 2002)

Well where the fuq are people finding sodium usinate?  I can't get anyone to carry/order or even find any SU these days.


----------



## Twin Peak (Dec 4, 2002)

Try 1fast400.com


----------



## kuso (Dec 4, 2002)

Thats one of the only places I`ve heard that sell it.


----------



## hardHITer001 (Dec 4, 2002)

I got mine at 1fast400........great prices, great service!


----------



## hardHITer001 (Dec 6, 2002)

Im up to 600mg  SU a day split in three doses. THe only side effect I have noticed is about an hour after I take it I get sweaty. Its not like sweat is poring off me but just kind of a hot sticky feeling. 

I seem to be "leaning up" pretty quickly. I know some of it was water retention from the monster combo. I'll let you know what my weight/BF test say this weekend.

What is a safe max daily dose of SU?


----------



## gopro (Dec 6, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by hardHITer001 *_
> Im up to 600mg  SU a day split in three doses. THe only side effect I have noticed is about an hour after I take it I get sweaty. Its not like sweat is poring off me but just kind of a hot sticky feeling.
> 
> I seem to be "leaning up" pretty quickly. I know some of it was water retention from the monster combo. I'll let you know what my weight/BF test say this weekend.
> ...



Sounds good so far. There is NO max daily dose b/c that hasn't been tested. Each person has different tolerance levels to these sort of products. Some people can only use 20 mcg of clen, while others can use 200 mcg or more! I think its safe to say that 1200 mg of SU is as high as anyone should go..and even that is very very high! I can't go past 600-800 myself!


----------



## Robboe (Dec 6, 2002)

In hindsight of my own use, don't exceed 1g. Although that was UA i was using, not SU.


----------



## hardHITer001 (Dec 7, 2002)

This will be my second full day of 200mgs every four hours.

I use every for hours because I have "normal" days that I must take my last ECA dose about 2-3 pm so I can sleep at night. But I have other days that last 18-22 hours, then somewhere I wake at Noon and I???m in bed again at 9pm. (I have an unusual job) 
So as you can see some "days" will have a much higher dose than others. 

Tomorrow I will go to 700 for 2 days then 800, 900 and top out at 1000. Next week


----------



## gopro (Dec 7, 2002)

Good luck. STAY HEALTHY!


----------



## hardHITer001 (Dec 9, 2002)

Just some follow up:

I have found that 600mgs a day (200mg x 3 doses) is all I can seem to handle. I tried going to 700 using 300mgs on my first dose of the day but I felt like shit! 
As gopro mentioned: It does seem to have a tendency for me to get pissed pretty easy. So I???m going to stick with 600 for duration of my ECA cycle.
When I start again (after my next ph cycle) I may try to go higher again, when it???s closer to show time. 

Just FYI


----------



## Twin Peak (Dec 9, 2002)

Thanks, interesting stuff.  I am going to try it for 2 weeks after the new year and just before my next PH cycle.


----------



## gopro (Dec 13, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by hardHITer001 *_
> Just some follow up:
> 
> I have found that 600mgs a day (200mg x 3 doses) is all I can seem to handle. I tried going to 700 using 300mgs on my first dose of the day but I felt like shit!
> ...



Thanks for keeping us posted. Interesting that it has the same effect on you...irritability...as it does me. 600 mg is as high as I can go, especially along with other thermogenics. I plan on using it for my next show as well.


----------



## crackerjack414 (Dec 15, 2002)

ok i have a few questions
1 does your macro nut intake change like dnp say50%carbs 30% protein 20%fat. 
2 d u still need the fructose and everything like dnp?
3 are the carb crazings like dnp?
4how long can i stay on it a simple 12day cylcle
5 do i get the same type of water retention and anabolic rebound from it like dnp?


----------



## gopro (Dec 16, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by crackerjack414 *_
> ok i have a few questions
> 1 does your macro nut intake change like dnp say50%carbs 30% protein 20%fat.
> 2 d u still need the fructose and everything like dnp?
> ...



You will not get any of the same effects as DNP would give. I would estimate that SU is about 20% as effective as DNP. The only side effect I got was massive irritability and a loss of strength in the gym which was remedied with creatine and ribose. It does work well when combined with thermogenics.


----------



## crackerjack414 (Dec 16, 2002)

thanks for the info, i remember dan duchaine writing a bit about the stuff


----------



## cornfed (Jan 14, 2003)

Here's another angle I've been wondering about...
Given that increased body temp for prolonged periods can lower sperm count, has anyone seen any info in regard to SU and this?

did a 15day stint over christmas break and managed to lose a couple even w/ a horrible diet...

1200-1500mg/day  (300x4, 400x4 & 300x1)
  w/ no negs other than a waking up sweating a few times (my tolerance to substances is rather strange I guess)


----------



## Twin Peak (Jan 14, 2003)

I started over the holidays too.  

I got up to 500mg on the 4th day and started to get sick.  Came down with a stuffy nose.  I don't know if it was related.  The stuffiness stick lingers so I think not.  I'll prolly finish the bottle at some point, but I am not buying more until I finish and see what happens.


----------



## cornfed (Jan 14, 2003)

I'd say not to take it longer than 14days, I developed too high a tolerance for it by then.  Good luck and sorry bout the cold.

NOTE to self:  do NOT mix sodium usinate in high dosages w/ high alcohol consumption


----------



## Twin Peak (Jan 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by cornfed *_
> NOTE to self:  do NOT mix sodium usinate in high dosages w/ high alcohol consumption



I didn't use a high does at all, I cut short way before then.  Also, I wasn't drinking any alcohol.


----------



## cornfed (Jan 14, 2003)

Well, I tried mixing the two w/o thinking about it and it was just uncomfortable ad foolish, though kinda funny.


----------



## Robboe (Jan 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by cornfed *_
> Here's another angle I've been wondering about...
> Given that increased body temp for prolonged periods can lower sperm count, has anyone seen any info in regard to SU and this?



it's very possible.

Under the circumstances, there's more factors you should be concerned (and maybe even more concerned) about.

Artificially causing the body temp to rise above what it wants to (i.e. when it's not doing it purposely during illness for instance), is not something that's really gonna bring any positive health effects.


----------



## cornfed (Jan 14, 2003)

Given, but that all depends on how one defines "health benefits".  Lower bf% could be one, but well-being may suffer and the like.  It was just a thought I wanted to provoke so that people might consider risks of long-term use.


----------

