# abs mass routine



## DimebagDarrell (Sep 21, 2004)

so now that im bulking at 4200 cals/day, ive got all my workouts down except for abs.  ive never been one to do abs, but i am going to start.  and i dont believe any of that "do 100 crunches 6 times" crap.  what do you suggest for a good abs routine for building mass?


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## CowPimp (Sep 21, 2004)

Try weighted ab exercises.  I just started.  The lifts that I do are decline situps, long arm crunches, and vertical knee crunches.  Decline situps are by far my favorite.

By the way, you have the best avatar on this site.  That girl's got an amazing ass.  There's really no other way to put it.


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## Du (Sep 21, 2004)

Yea, what he said. I like weighted cable crunches and decline bench sit-ups with a plate. They work em good.


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## Tom_B (Sep 22, 2004)

what if you didn't want to gain any mass around your stomach, you just wanted a firm flat stomach, what exercises would be best then? This is what I've bee doing and haven't really seen any results
30x Advanced Twisting legs-up crunch
30x jacknife or this weird one where you use you hip and lift your but off the floor.
30x The accordian
30x Oblique sit-ups (15x each side)
30x Dumbbell side bend (15x each side)
30x Crunches or a lower abs exercise (forgot the name of it)

I do those 2 days in a row, 1 days rest then repeat.


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 22, 2004)

that's way way too much stuff


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## Tom_B (Sep 22, 2004)

should I do it 3-4x a week then instead of 5x?
Forgot to mention I do Pilates 3x a week too, which is an ab workout on it's on since I have to use my stomach to stabalize every move


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## CowPimp (Sep 22, 2004)

Having a flat stomach is all about diet.  As well, I don't think targeted ab work would be beneficial to getting a flat stomach.  Additional muscle mass would make the abdomen protrude outwards.  Don't do any direct ab work for a flat stomach, or very little.  The rectus abdominus and obliques get plenty of work stabilizing your body in so many lifts.


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## Tom_B (Sep 22, 2004)

Well i still want a little defintion, enough to the point I can walk without it flabbing up and down lol, just i don't want a a huge six pack stomach that sticks out.


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## CowPimp (Sep 22, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> Well i still want a little defintion, enough to the point I can walk without it flabbing up and down lol, just i don't want a a huge six pack stomach that sticks out.



Then you need to get to a very low bodyfat.  That's just the way it is.  Definition is about lower bodyfat percentage.


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## Tom_B (Sep 22, 2004)

lol but my problem is according to my pics someone told me I'm at 8% BF or Lower, that's why i can't understand why i don't have visible abs, espically if I'm constantly training them, my theory is I have alot of water under my skin, I need to look into some good direutics or my body fat % just isn't that low


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## DeadBolt (Sep 22, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> lol but my problem is according to my pics someone told me I'm at 8% BF or Lower, that's why i can't understand why i don't have visible abs, espically if I'm constantly training them, my theory is I have alot of water under my skin, I need to look into some good direutics or my body fat % just isn't that low


Have you ever had it tested?


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## Du (Sep 22, 2004)

Personally, I think you need to build. Bulk. Eat.


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## pmech (Sep 22, 2004)

Agreed. You need to put some muslce on before you can see it.


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## Tom_B (Sep 22, 2004)

I'm in the middle of a bulk right now, still haven't found a amount of calories good for me, I did have my body fat% tested before and they said it was at 5% but I don't think it was that accurate, so that would mean that I would have enven the most little defintion but I don't, and I can grab alot of skin off my lower abs, I'm pretty sure I'm holding alot of water under my skin I feel bloated all the time, and I have this "puffy" look to me, there no defintion


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## babylon (Sep 22, 2004)

weeks 1-4 power/mass, weeks 4-8 defenition. 
Power/mass: weighted 12-15 reps, 3-4 sets. 
Defenition: 30-50 reps without weights, 3 sets. 

Doing a million crunches is completely pointless as it will train muscle endurance, not strength/defenition. also simple crunches/leg raises wont do, you need to blast the muscles from every possible angle. If you wish you may want to break your workout into muscle groups (lower, upper, obliques,etc). Treat your abs as you would any other muscle group, train your abs every other day max. And, focus on diet, thats the most important part.


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## Tom_B (Sep 22, 2004)

ok that sounds alot better I'll try it out, but how many times per week shoudl I do it? 2x, 3x? I'm willing to try any routine out, I'm sick of doing all those ab workouts without seeing any results.


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## Du (Sep 22, 2004)

babylon said:
			
		

> Defenition: 30-50 reps without weights, 3 sets.


 
Tell me youre not serious.....


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## DeadBolt (Sep 22, 2004)

Look for now b/c your on a bulk you have alot of extra cals coming in.  Stick to heavy weight ab lifts-cable crunches, machines, weighted crunches, weighted leg lifts, weighted knee raises.  Keep them heavy and lower reps.  Build them bastards up until they just get massive.  Once you get the thickness you want stop doing so much weighted ab work and stick to non weighted reps 15-20reps.  You wont see your abs unless you focus on dropping your bf% but without a solid set of them you will almost never see them.  I was down to 9% bf and never saw abs simply b/c I never trained them(well defined abs that is).

If you would like I have a 3 week session of ab workouts that follow the theory of power/rep range/shock and it has been working great for me.  Its done twice a week and my abs have gotten stronger, my core is much stronger which in turn helps with other lifts, and they are bulging like crazy.  I'm couting the days till I start to cut so I can see them bad boys.  If you would like visit my journal and I have em all layed out there.  

Also the theory of working your lower or upper abs is garbage....they are one set of muscles and you can't target them seperatly.  No matter what all the abs will get hit, sometimes it feels like there is more stress on one portion or the other but regardless you can't target just the upper or lower abs.

Just to further prove my point:


			
				P-funk said:
			
		

> No such thing as lower abs.  The rectus abdominus is one muscle that contract two way (top to bottom and bottom to top).  No matter what there is no such thing as targeting the lower portion of that muscle (it be like saying you could work on the part of  your bicep near your elbow one day and the part by your shoulder the next).  The upper portion of the rectus is more superficial (bigger muscles, closer to the skin).  The lower portion is less superficial (deep inside and far from the skin) which is why it is usually the last part you see and almost always has a small layer of fat hanging over it.  Strict Strct dieting will expose that.  As far as core strength goes do either leg  lifts or situps (weighted).  The only reason to do abs is to make them stronger and increase your core strength.  To see them you need to diet for it.  No such thing as targeting one area or the other.


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## DeadBolt (Sep 22, 2004)

babylon said:
			
		

> Defenition: 30-50 reps without weights, 3 sets.


 
Wrong!
Defenition=low body fat


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## PreMier (Sep 22, 2004)

Some people just dont have abs.. you may be one of them.


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## madden player (Sep 22, 2004)

PreMier said:
			
		

> Some people just dont have abs.. you may be one of them.


Do you mean like Boyer Coe??.. I can't find a single pic of a Boyer with a "6 pack", IMO his abs or lack of abs made him one of the strangest built pro's of all time.


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## DeadBolt (Sep 22, 2004)

PreMier said:
			
		

> Some people just dont have abs.. you may be one of them.



I use to think that for the longest then I trained the hell out of them and realized things were growing, now I'm just trying to make them as thick as possible.

But yes it is true gentics do play a large role in ab development but don't use that as a crutch to not train em.  Train em good and diet down nice before you come to that conclusion.


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## DimebagDarrell (Sep 22, 2004)

kewl, thanks for the help guys, time to incorporate these.  i have like zero abs mass compared to the rest of my body, i definitely need some mass in my abdominals


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## Tom_B (Sep 23, 2004)

I'd follow your ab workout deadbolt but alot of the ab work you do i don't have access to, all I can do is anything I hold the weight in my hands (or maybe I could use a dumbbel and lift it off the floor with my feet) I can't do leg raises and pulley stuff, don't have the equipment for it. I'll probably have to go out a get a medicine ball and maybe some ankle straps with weights on em, for my lower part of my abs.
Thanks for explaining that all exercises work all the abs, I always thought I didn't have a good ab exercises that really targeted the lower abs cause I could always feel it working my upper to.
I think I'm just gonna train my abs like any other muscle group training my obliques 2x a week and my rectus adominis 2x, with 2 exercises each time.

lol How can someone not be able to have abs? Like said before their just another muscle group, so as long as you train em right and have a good diet it is possible to have them right? I don't think I have good genetics for my abs, all my uncles and my dad has beer bellies, O well it's said I'm the only only one in my household that dosen't have that bad of a flabby stomach (except for my sisters but there 8 and 9...damn kids and their extremly high metabolsims)


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## madden player (Sep 23, 2004)

Beer bellies...don't ya know that in Canada we call that Molson muscle..Your right everyone has to have abs, but some folks can diet down to anorexia like porportions and never have much in the way of a "six pack"


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## DeadBolt (Sep 23, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> I'd follow your ab workout deadbolt but alot of the ab work you do i don't have access to, all I can do is anything I hold the weight in my hands (or maybe I could use a dumbbel and lift it off the floor with my feet) I can't do leg raises and pulley stuff, don't have the equipment for it. I'll probably have to go out a get a medicine ball and maybe some ankle straps with weights on em, for my lower part of my abs.
> *Thats not a problem, just as long as you hve a bench and some weight you can do weighted ab work.  If need be we can make a routine for ya basing it on what equipment you have.*
> 
> Thanks for explaining that all exercises work all the abs, I always thought I didn't have a good ab exercises that really targeted the lower abs cause I could always feel it working my upper to.
> ...


*I'm the same way, I'm the only person who cares about nutrition and exercise...everyone else in my family is fat.  And just b/c all the guys in your family have beer guts doesn't mean you have bad gentics...it just means you have to work harder to keep yourself from looking like them lol.* *dgn*


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## Du (Sep 23, 2004)

DimebagDarrell said:
			
		

> kewl, thanks for the help guys, time to incorporate these. i have like zero abs mass compared to the rest of my body, i definitely need some mass in my abdominals


 

Your answer is called synthol.  









Just kiddin.


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## CowPimp (Sep 23, 2004)

DeadBolt said:
			
		

> *I'm the same way, I'm the only person who cares about nutrition and exercise...everyone else in my family is fat.  And just b/c all the guys in your family have beer guts doesn't mean you have bad gentics...it just means you have to work harder to keep yourself from looking like them lol.* *dgn*



Haha, me too.  Oddly enough, all the children of my generation are different though.  

My brother started to get chubby, but my good habits wore off on him.  He began exercising and eating better.  He lost something like 20 pounds.  Granted, he doesn't go to the extreme that I do, but I think he does a good job of keeping himself in shape and eating fairly healthy.  He also skateboards a lot, which can be very tiring if anyone here has ever skated a 4 hour session before.

My other brother is really funny.  He's 12, and he is dead set on getting 6 pack abs.  I told him he has to wait until he hits puberty fully to really start putting on mass.  He was talking about dieting to get visible abs.  I had to explain to him that #1 he is 12 and needs food to make sure he grows to his full potential, and #2 you need to eat big to get big.


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## BulkMeUp (Sep 23, 2004)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Then you need to get to a very low bodyfat.  That's just the way it is.  Definition is about lower bodyfat percentage.





			
				pmech said:
			
		

> Agreed. You need to put some muslce on before you can see it. .





			
				DeadBolt said:
			
		

> I use to think that for the longest then I trained the hell out of them and realized things were growing, now I'm just trying to make them as thick as possible..


  
Firstly, In order to have a 'showy' muscular abs or a flat firm abs, you _need to have_ good ab muscles.
Secondly, for them to show you _need to have _ a low body fat %age.

Having weak/small ab muscle and very low bf will not really make any kind of abs show. All you might end up with is a concave tummy and enough ribs showing to play the xylophone on!   

You are doing a bulk now, so dont worry about your abs being visible for now. Simply work those abs and they will show up after you cut. Winter is approaching. Do things right and you should be closer to your goal by summer.


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## BulkMeUp (Sep 23, 2004)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> My other brother is really funny.  He's 12, and he is dead set on getting 6 pack abs.


I can never understand ppl that have a one dimentional focus on bodyparts and fail to see the rest of the body that they lack. e.g. "i want great abs" ... "I want big arms"...  

ps. am not poking fun at your brother, CowPimp. And that was some good advice you gave him.


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## Tom_B (Sep 23, 2004)

lol well to make matter worse my family owns a candian/Chinese restaurant so everyone in my family is constantly eating french fries, chicken balls, fried rice, garlic fingers, pizza etc. It's like 12:00 am at night and their still eating a 16" garlic fingers, I don't get how they can do that to their body's.
Deadbolt (or someone else) I'd really really appreicate it if you could make an ab workout for me, this morning I had no idea what I could do so I only did some weighted crunches and weighted side bends 
This is the equipment I have :2 dumbbells, a barbell, a bench (with leg extension thingy, doubt that matters but just to be safe  ) and I got some 5lb, 7.5lbs and 10lbs plates (I also got 25 lbs weight plates but I thinkt hat be a little too much lol)


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## BulkMeUp (Sep 23, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> lol well to make matter worse my family owns a candian/Chinese restaurant so everyone in my family is constantly eating french fries, chicken balls, fried rice, garlic fingers, pizza etc. It's like 12:00 am at night and their still eating a 16" garlic fingers,


  

You knew i am doing a cut right now, so u _deliberately _ threw that in my face, didnt ya?


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## CowPimp (Sep 23, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> lol well to make matter worse my family owns a candian/Chinese restaurant so everyone in my family is constantly eating french fries, chicken balls, fried rice, garlic fingers, pizza etc. It's like 12:00 am at night and their still eating a 16" garlic fingers, I don't get how they can do that to their body's.
> Deadbolt (or someone else) I'd really really appreicate it if you could make an ab workout for me, this morning I had no idea what I could do so I only did some weighted crunches and weighted side bends
> This is the equipment I have :2 dumbbells, a barbell, a bench (with leg extension thingy, doubt that matters but just to be safe  ) and I got some 5lb, 7.5lbs and 10lbs plates (I also got 25 lbs weight plates but I thinkt hat be a little too much lol)



My current ab workout is 3 sets x 3 days per week of decline situps in the 4-6 repitition range during power week; the leg extension apparatus on my bench gives me a place to put my legs when doing the decline situps.  

During rep range week I do 3 sets x 3 days per week of vertical knee crunches in the 8-12 rep range at a slower tempo.  

During shock week I do 1 triple dropset x 3 days per week of 8-12 reps of long-arm crunches (I do 8-12, drop the weight and do another 8-12, then drop the weight once more and do another 8-12).

Whatever you do will work fine.  There is no magical routine.  Try 6-9 sets for the whole week of weighted ab work.  Crunches, situps, and hovers are all good examples.


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## DeadBolt (Sep 23, 2004)

Exactly what pimp said, all lifts are fine you just need to do them.  
You could start with:
2 x 6-8 weighted crunches 
2 x 10-12 flat hip raises 
1 x 15 weighted knee raises on the bench(stick a DB in between your feet) 
1 x side crunches for obliques 8-12

That may seem like alot but it isn't really.  If it is much for you starting out do everything at 1 set then increase if need be.  Do that twice a week w/ enough rest in between each session.

There is no super routine or anything like that....just add some weight to any ab exercise you know and you are set.  I add weight to things people never thought of and it really hits the muscle in a new way...give a new meaning to being sore if your not use to it lol.  For now keep on eating and lifting, don't neglect the abs and with such little effort as those few sets you should get some abs.  Its your job to cut down after the bulk in order to see those abs though.


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 23, 2004)

My ab routine is one set weekly of weighted situps.  I used to do 2 sets a week but when I got into relatively heavy weight I had to lower the frequency.  I do 145 pounds of weight with situps at about 11 reps (it changes weekly).  I also do heavy deadlifts which also stimulate the abs.  I can say objectively that my abs are very strong and very thick,  so the idea that huge volume and ab work go hand in hand isn't necessarily right.


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## CowPimp (Sep 23, 2004)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> I can say objectively that my abs are very strong and very thick,  so the idea that huge volume and ab work go hand in hand isn't necessarily right.



Agreed.  I used to think that I needed to work out my abs like crazy to see results, but boy was I wrong.  I do a total of 9 sets per week, and I will probably reduce that on my next training cycle.  I used to do 27 sets per week of endurance ab exercises.  Pfft...  What a waste of time.


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## babylon (Sep 23, 2004)

du510 said:
			
		

> Tell me youre not serious.....


I AM! http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magazine/animals8weekstoawesomeabs.htm


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## babylon (Sep 23, 2004)

DeadBolt said:
			
		

> Wrong!
> Defenition=low body fat



right abs are made in the kitchen! should have included that!


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## DeadBolt (Sep 23, 2004)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Agreed.  I used to think that I needed to work out my abs like crazy to see results, but boy was I wrong.  I do a total of 9 sets per week, and I will probably reduce that on my next training cycle.  I used to do 27 sets per week of endurance ab exercises.  Pfft...  What a waste of time.


I noticed that, the longer I train the less I do for my abs and the better they come out lol.  I currently do maybe 10-11 a week and find I have been gaining pretty damn good.  I


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## Tom_B (Sep 24, 2004)

BulkMeUp said:
			
		

> You knew i am doing a cut right now, so u _deliberately _threw that in my face, didnt ya?


lol I only have one weakness and that my ice - cream  thank god we own a restaurant and not an ice cream place


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## Tom_B (Sep 24, 2004)

Thanks everyone for the help 
I'm gonan try out that routine Deadbolt, cause obvisously doing tons upon tons of abs workout isn't working for me.
lol my abs just don't get sore..period not matter how many of whatever I do there never sore, I feel them whiel doignt he exercise but after that nothing, except when I do the weighted ones, I'm still not sore but my rib cage really hurts 
I'm not expecting to see my abs anytime soon, maybe after my cut  god I'd be happy


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## DeadBolt (Sep 24, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> Thanks everyone for the help
> I'm gonan try out that routine Deadbolt, cause obvisously doing tons upon tons of abs workout isn't working for me.
> lol my abs just don't get sore..period not matter how many of whatever I do there never sore, I feel them whiel doignt he exercise but after that nothing, except when I do the weighted ones, I'm still not sore but my rib cage really hurts
> I'm not expecting to see my abs anytime soon, maybe after my cut  god I'd be happy



Try superseting some really heavy situps then go to hip raises (do these to failure)  Im almost 100% sure yu will get sore, do a set or 2 of those and in the morning you'll be hurtin lol.  I do heavy cable crunches superseted witgh incline hip raises and they are always killer.


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## Tom_B (Sep 24, 2004)

meh hip raises don't bother me, i could do about 100 before I really felt something,
My problem is, is that I've developed a really high endurance for my abs, before I would do 1500 crunches EVERY night, so it takes alot now for me to actually feel soemthing. Hopefully thought weighted ab work will change that


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## DeadBolt (Sep 24, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> meh hip raises don't bother me, i could do about 100 before I really felt something,
> My problem is, is that I've developed a really high endurance for my abs, before I would do 1500 crunches EVERY night, so it takes alot now for me to actually feel soemthing. Hopefully thought weighted ab work will change that


Throw a few 45's on your chest for thems situps and grap a DB on between your feet for the hip raises....or sub it for another ab exercise and that endurance crap goes out the window.  My cousin use to be the same way, he only did tons of reps but the second I started him on heavy abs he was hurtin.


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## CowPimp (Sep 24, 2004)

Make sure you maintain a good mind-muscle connection with ab work.  I find it very tough to stimulate growth in the abs and calves without a good mind-muscle connection.  Squeeze those abs, and maybe even hold it for a second at the peak of the contraciton.


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## DeadBolt (Sep 25, 2004)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Make sure you maintain a good mind-muscle connection with ab work.  I find it very tough to stimulate growth in the abs and calves without a good mind-muscle connection.  Squeeze those abs, and maybe even hold it for a second at the peak of the contraciton.


  If you don't pay attention to what your doing you eont go very far.  Visualize those muscles growing and dont let the rest of your body pick up the slack of the abs....make them do all the work and they will reap the benefits.


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## Tom_B (Sep 25, 2004)

lol ok thnaks again guy's maybe hopefully I can start to see some results in my abs (was doing crunches for 2 years before I knew all the stuff I know now).
I just have one more question..where could i get a medicine ball? think some place like wal-mart would have one? and how much they cost? cause I need to watch my money since my protein powder's running out...why couldn't it be the other way around? eating junk was expensive and eating healthy was cheap


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## Tom_B (Sep 25, 2004)

I went out to the mall today and was looking for a medicine ball (which they don't have, best thing there would be 5lbs ankle straps) when I came across this
http://www.asseenontv.com/prod-pages/6_sec_abs.html?gg=6secondabs
it looks good, and has resitance of 15-55 lbs think I should get it? But i'd still also do some other stuff too since my equipment is so limited.


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## DeadBolt (Sep 25, 2004)

Don't waist your time on garbage like that.  Why spend your money on a weighted crunch item when all you need to do is hold some weight in your arms and do em......no reason to spend money on something you can already do and is better.  Better range of motion when you use your own weights and you can also hit different angles if desirable.

As for a medicine ball....hmm walmart or kmart type stores may have something but am not 100% sure.  Most people will buy things online b/c you can find anything there.  But in my case growing up I always went to sporting good stores....sports authority, models, ramsey outdoors, etc etc.......they tend to have alot of stuff that most don't know about.  As for cost, it beats me I never use em sorry.


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## Tom_B (Sep 25, 2004)

lol ok thanks again deadbolt 
Meh if i can't find a medicine ball it's not a big deal, I'll just get some ankle weights so I can switch up some of my ab exercises afetr a while.
I have one more question lol, has anyone ever tried the stomach vaccum?
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ms-fit5.htm
if so can anyone tell me if it really works and what the proper technique is? I don't know if your allowed to still breath during the exercise. It be pretty hard to hold your breath for 60 seconds. It also says you should do 3 sets of it, but it dosen't say how many reps per set? or does it just mean do it only 3x?


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## DeadBolt (Sep 26, 2004)

Thats more of an endurance exercise, same as high reps low weight crunches.  Don't bother with it for your primary training...stick to the heavy weights lower reps to add some serious mass.  If anything thats something I would do when I am bored or am out and want something to do.  Not gonna help you build your abs much but its something fun to do at a movie or waiting for your food.


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## Tom_B (Sep 26, 2004)

ok thanks once again, I was thinking of doing those after i do my Pilates since during Pilates you have to have your stomach sucked in all the time and push inwards. Besides doing like 20 of those at 60 secsonds each is just too much time that I can't spare,  I think I'll just do them during school or something cause nothing ever happens there..


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