# ideal fruits for cutting.



## joey2005 (Sep 12, 2004)

Ive been eating pears...big ones..dont know the nutrition facts


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## bulletproof1 (Sep 12, 2004)

berries are the best for cutting. 

avoid bananas at all costs while cutting.


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## Jodi (Sep 12, 2004)

Peaches, apples, pears, grapefruit and berries


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## M.J.H. (Sep 12, 2004)

Wow, interesting. I have never heard that bananas are bad for cutting? Just because they're low-water and dense?


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## Rocco32 (Sep 12, 2004)

Alot of sugar Mike, it's how your body processes bananas.


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## sara (Sep 12, 2004)

Plums, Nectarines are ok


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## M.J.H. (Sep 13, 2004)

I still don't understand how your body processes bananas any different than oranges or apples. Doesn't make sense to me at all.


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## Jodi (Sep 13, 2004)

It is higher on the GI and the GL tables which means it spikes insulin much moreso than the other fruits I listed.


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## LAM (Sep 13, 2004)

MonStar said:
			
		

> I still don't understand how your body processes bananas any different than oranges or apples. Doesn't make sense to me at all.



the starches in banana's change as the fruit rippens to glucose based sugars.   a green banana has less sugar and a lower GI than a very ripe yellow banana with brown spots on it...


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## Emma-Leigh (Sep 14, 2004)

MonStar said:
			
		

> I still don't understand how your body processes bananas any different than oranges or apples. Doesn't make sense to me at all.


It doesn't process it that differently really. 

Ripe banana's do have slightly more glucose and less fructose than other fruits. Regular bananas 60% sucrose, 20-25% glucose and 15-20% fructose. This is the reason why it has a slightly higher GI, although it is really not all that significant - An unripe banana has a GI of only ~30 and a ripe banana reaches an average of about 60 (there are reports of measurements anywhere from 50 to 70)... On average, a banana is only a GI of 50 odd - which is less than sweet potato and rice.... Anyway, the GL is higher (6 for a unripe banana and 12 for a ripe one, compared to values of under 10 for most of the other fruits) because of the greater amount of glucose/starches in the fruit (a typical nana has about 13g of glucose and 10g fructose).

People like the other fruits mainly because they have less energy per serve, have higher fibre per serve and have a lower GI...

Personally, I don't think bananas are all that terrible - and as long as they are eaten appropriately they are no more 'off limits' than other fruits.  I feel they are excellent in terms of post-workout recovery, especially from heavy workouts and longer cardio sessions where lots of sweating/energy depletion has happened. This is because they are high in potassium which will help restore electrolytes. Post-workout they will also help to restore glycogen (due to the higher glucose content) and help replenish depleted liver glycogen (which is important in maintaining your blood glucose, especially following cardio/working out).They are also high in vitamin B6 (one banana gives you nearly 50% your daily requirements), vit C, Fibre, and magnesium! 

Anyway, that is just my opinion....


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## Tom_B (Sep 14, 2004)

ya, I went out and got rid of all my banana's yesterday I got some pears, but when I put it in fitday.com there's virtually no difference, same amount of sugar really...


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## gopro (Sep 14, 2004)

I think that any and all fruit suck when cutting, but if I had to choose I would utilize cantaloupe and honeydew melons. Alot of water in these.


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## Nate (Sep 14, 2004)

regarding GI, i thought this was an interesting read.


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## BulkMeUp (Sep 14, 2004)

Interesting discussion on fruits, as i love fruits. However unless one is training for a competition, would it really make such a difference if one consumes 2-4 pieces/servings a day?


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## Jodi (Sep 14, 2004)

Fruits only fill liver glycogen, not muscle glycogen and it doesn't take much fructose to fill your liver.  If you eat too much fructose you spill over, spilling over means turning to fat.


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## sara (Sep 14, 2004)

Jodi said:
			
		

> Fruits only fill liver glycogen, not muscle glycogen and it doesn't take much fructose to fill your liver.  If you eat too much fructose you spill over, spilling over means turning to fat.


  
Eating fruits on my refeed is not going to help me build muscles then


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## Tom_B (Sep 14, 2004)

lol Sara your obsessed with refeeds


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## Robboe (Sep 14, 2004)

Bah! Fruits aren't completely fructose.

And honestly, who eats bananas on their own for a meal? Forget the GI for that.

The reason i tend to stay away from fruits when cutting is cause i'd rather not have to remove other more filling foods toa ccomodate the fruit calories (not loads but the figures can add up over the day).


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## sara (Sep 14, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> lol Sara your obsessed with refeeds


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## Emma-Leigh (Sep 14, 2004)

Jodi said:
			
		

> Fruits only fill liver glycogen, not muscle glycogen and it doesn't take much fructose to fill your liver.  If you eat too much fructose you spill over, spilling over means turning to fat.


I don't know if I would agree with you here.

Fruits are not just fructose - they also haven variable amounts of sucrose, glucose and starches and so they will also serve to replenish muscles to some degree... Sure, they will help fill liver glycogen, but it is not an 'either/or' event like everyone seems to believe.

They will also only fill liver glycogen stores if the body is not in need of energy - so if your blood glucose levels are low (like following exercise, or when on a calorie restricted diet) the body will prioritise the energy from the fruit and convert the fructose straight to glucose in the liver, which would then be released into the blood as available energy for the body. The body is pretty good at meeting it's needs and it will not 'hoard energy' in the liver if your brain/body needs the fuel. 

Also - the average serve of low-calorie fruit (apples, berries etc) only have 3 to 5g of fructose and even higher-calorie fruit (such as pears and banana's) only have about 10g.  So at a maximum you are only getting 40 calories from fructose... Which is not a lot of energy at the end of the day. This is especially relevant if you consider the average human liver has the capacity to store ~ 80 to 100g of glycogen - which is ~ 320 to 400 kcal in energy... 

So, if you get, say, 40 cals from 'fructose' and then (as it takes energy to form glucose and then glycogen), you use a few cals for the process of conversion, you can see that you need a lot more energy than you would get from a piece of fruit (or even a few pieces of fruit) to fill your liver stores completely... Especially if you consider that, while dieting, your liver glycogen stores are going to be significantly lower than normal anyway...


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## Emma-Leigh (Sep 14, 2004)

Nate said:
			
		

> regarding GI, i thought this was an interesting read.



Pahhh... That study was flawed... 10 weeks is really not enough to gauge the long term effects for the benifits of lower GI diets. Also, you have to wonder how much the data was altered by the fact that they basically had to force-feed the subjects - the subjects had to follow the 'energy plans' layed out and, a few weeks into the study, were all complaining of being 'too full'... You have to consider how much would this alter data when you consider one of the benifits of lower GI diets is that they keep you 'fuller' than higher GI foods!

If you look at the data over those 10 weeks you DO see that the trend of greater FAT LOSS (and WEIGHT LOSS) is seen with the lower GI diet - and would probably continue to increase as time went on.

There are a plethora of other studies that show lower GI is benificial (both nutritionally, healthwise and in terms of helping with dieting), so I would not pin too much on this one study.


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## Emma-Leigh (Sep 14, 2004)

BulkMeUp said:
			
		

> Interesting discussion on fruits, as i love fruits. However unless one is training for a competition, would it really make such a difference if one consumes 2-4 pieces/servings a day?



I do not believe it would make the slightest bit of difference - in fact, I feel that the vitamins, minerals, fibre, phytochemicals and other nutrients you would get from a few pieces of fruit/day would benefit your health more so!

Think of the amazing properties that some fruits have.. For example: Blueberries have a HUGE antioxidant potential! They are thought to decrease blood triglycerides and are seen to help maintain brain function and decrease the rate of brain aging...

This is also one of the reasons why I feel fruits after a strenuous bout of exercise are also a good thing - With their antioxidant potential and in being a rich source of vitamins and minerals they help in muscle recovery and prevent the oxidative damage associated with heavy exercise! Also, as I noted before, they help in maintaining blood glucose and keeping your brain/body 'happy' in terms of glucose availability, which allows the partitioning of any other incoming energy (eg: oats) to be directed towards muscle recovery....


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## Robboe (Sep 14, 2004)

Nice postage, babycakes.


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## ikam (Sep 14, 2004)

Jodi said:
			
		

> Fruits only fill liver glycogen, not muscle glycogen and it doesn't take much fructose to fill your liver.  If you eat too much fructose you spill over, spilling over means turning to fat.



That's an oversimplified explanation. Fruit is not as evil as it is made out to be.


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## joey2005 (Sep 14, 2004)

but all in the end...it doesnt help fat loss...only hurts it ..


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## Tom_B (Sep 14, 2004)

and all in the end losing weight means, more calories burnt, then calories consumed and I heard alot of fruits and vegetables are negative calorie foods (not sure if this is a myth of not) which means they require more energy to digest themsleves then what they actually contain.
lol and seriously Emma where do you get all this information? god I wish I knew half the stuff you do


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## Emma-Leigh (Sep 14, 2004)

joey2005 said:
			
		

> but all in the end...it doesnt help fat loss...only hurts it ..


An overly simple statement there....

Fruit *can* help with fat loss - it keeps your brain and body 'fed' which, in turn, helps prevent some of the neurohormonal downregulation in metabolism seen with dieting.

It can also aid in recovery from exercise and, during strenuous exercise, helps you perform at maximal intensity, which is, on a both an overall calorie expenditure level and a 'bang for your buck' measure (that is, time invested v's energy expended)  a benificial thing.

If you oversimplify things  then you can argue that food in general doesn't help fat loss!


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## ikam (Sep 14, 2004)

*hands out a "job well done" sticker to Emma-Leigh*


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## Nate (Sep 14, 2004)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Pahhh... That study was flawed...



i don't really disagree with you.

i think the only difference is with respect to satiety.  if you can get full on a cup of cheerios as a opposed to a 1/2 cup of oatmeal, by all means, eat the cheerios if they make you happier.

i think the GI is vastly misunderstood.

sorry for the quick post, i'm on the run...


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## Jodi (Sep 14, 2004)

ikam said:
			
		

> That's an oversimplified explanation. Fruit is not as evil as it is made out to be.


I never said it was.  I love fruit and eat it all the time but I do not see the need for more than a few pieces per day especially while on a cutting diet. 



> I don't know if I would agree with you here.
> 
> Fruits are not just fructose - they also haven variable amounts of sucrose, glucose and starches and so they will also serve to replenish muscles to some degree... Sure, they will help fill liver glycogen, but it is not an 'either/or' event like everyone seems to believe.
> 
> ...



I almost agree with you completely here.  

Although, someones diet, goals and somatype needs to be looked at more closely when determining how much fruit one should eat.  As you said, fruit has MANY beneficial attributes and should always be part of ones diet but I still feel too much of it can hinder results in a cutting diet.  I also feel that those carbs could be used more wisely coming from complex carbs especialy those in a caloric deficit.

Now someone on a maintenance diet or bulking, then yeah, eat up.  There are alot more benefits from the fruit than not.


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## ikam (Sep 15, 2004)

> Fruits only fill liver glycogen, not muscle glycogen and it doesn't take much fructose to fill your liver. If you eat too much fructose you spill over, spilling over means turning to fat.



There was an implication that fruit is detrimental to ones progress if fat loss is the goal at hand. Correct? I understand that you did not say it was evil and I, in no way typed that.

What I was trying to convey is that statements like the one you made is why people are so afraid of eating fruit. They oversimplfy something because it's been touted as having a negative effect in some way.

Fruit is good, it tastes yummy and should be part of a balanced nutritional program. That's my opinion.


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## Jodi (Sep 15, 2004)

And if you read ALL my statements you would have seen that I said fruit was good as in a 1-2 pieces per day.


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## bulletproof1 (Sep 15, 2004)

this is 1 of those subjects where opinions are going to differ. i prefer to keep fruit to a minimum if any at all. if eating fruits dont hinder your cut, then gobble all you want. i dont see the need in clogging up a thread just because a difference of opinions though. whoever started this thread asked for an opinion and they have gotten several. let them take the advice and see what works best for them.


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## ikam (Sep 15, 2004)

*sigh* I read them.

I disagree that anymore then 1-2 pieces a day wll be harmful towards fat loss. My problem with your posts is that you have not said why. You have just stated that, and I quote, "but I still feel too much of it can hinder results in a cutting diet. I also feel that those carbs could be used more wisely coming from complex carbs especially those in a caloric deficit." 

Why should complex carbs be used moreso then something like fruit?


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## ikam (Sep 15, 2004)

bulletproof1 said:
			
		

> this is 1 of those subjects where opinions are going to differ. i prefer to keep fruit to a minimum if any at all. if eating fruits dont hinder your cut, then gobble all you want. i dont see the need in clogging up a thread just because a difference of opinions though. whoever started this thread asked for an opinion and they have gotten several. let them take the advice and see what works best for them.



Opinions need to be supported by useful information that is applicable to the topic at hand. Stating, "it is good," does nothing to help shed light on the question.


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## bulletproof1 (Sep 15, 2004)

ikam said:
			
		

> Opinions need to be supported by useful information that is applicable to the topic at hand. Stating, "it is good," does nothing to help shed light on the question.



the opinions that are stated in these forums are what works for each individual. not every program, tip, routine, diet, schedule, etc will work for everyone. the purpose of this site and these forums are to gather information and incorporate them into a personal plan that helps meet your goals.


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## Jodi (Sep 15, 2004)

OMG - How much more do I need to say?  Notice I said if you eat TOO much...............

Complex carbs are a better choice because of filling muscle glycogen.



> Fruits only fill liver glycogen, not muscle glycogen and it doesn't take much fructose to fill your liver. If you eat too much fructose you spill over, spilling over means turning to fat.





> Although, someones diet, goals and somatype needs to be looked at more closely when determining how much fruit one should eat. As you said, fruit has MANY beneficial attributes and should always be part of ones diet but I still feel too much of it can hinder results in a cutting diet. I also feel that those carbs could be used more wisely coming from complex carbs especialy those in a caloric deficit.
> 
> Now someone on a maintenance diet or bulking, then yeah, eat up. There are alot more benefits from the fruit than not.


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## ikam (Sep 15, 2004)

So it's gone from being 1-2 pieces to "too" much? I'm a bit confused. I apologize if I'm gettting your panties in a bunch. 

Btw, you never answered my question.

"Why should complex carbs be used moreso then something like fruit?"


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## Jodi (Sep 15, 2004)

How bout you read........I'm done here.


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## ikam (Sep 15, 2004)

bulletproof1 said:
			
		

> the opinions that are stated in these forums are what works for each individual. not every program, tip, routine, diet, schedule, etc will work for everyone. the purpose of this site and these forums are to gather information and incorporate them into a personal plan that helps meet your goals.



They are also used to educate the readers by allowing members to take part in mature discussions. One can not do this if all they say is, "it worked for me," or " it works for me, try it."


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## ikam (Sep 15, 2004)

Count to 10 and get back to me Jodi. Hope I didn't ruin your morning.


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## bulletproof1 (Sep 15, 2004)

ikam said:
			
		

> So it's gone from being 1-2 pieces to "too" much? I'm a bit confused. I apologize if I'm gettting your panties in a bunch.
> 
> Btw, you never answered my question.
> 
> "Why should complex carbs be used moreso then something like fruit?"



she thinks 1-2 pieces is harmless. anymore than that she feels is more likely to turn to fat. she has stuck to her story since the beginning. 

complex carbs are always better when cutting. if you dont know that then i dont think you are in any position to question jodi.


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## ikam (Sep 15, 2004)

bulletproof1 said:
			
		

> she thinks 1-2 pieces is harmless. anymore than that she feels is more likely to turn to fat. she has stuck to her story since the beginning.
> 
> complex carbs are always better when cutting. if you dont know that then i dont think you are in any position to question jodi.



I doubt a grown woman needs someone to explain herself to me. 

Complex carbs, simple sugars, Low/high GI, stop thinking in the box. Step outside, the air out here is fresh.

She is saying two different things. What I am asking her to do (which is not hard btw) is to explain why more then 1-2 pieces of fruit is going to be detrimental towards fat loss.

It's pretty straight forward, no?


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## bulletproof1 (Sep 15, 2004)

ikam said:
			
		

> They are also used to educate the readers by allowing members to take part in mature discussions. One can not do this if all they say is, "it worked for me," or " it works for me, try it."



is this a low carb day for you or what?

 if someone asks for my opinion i tell them what works for me and what doesnt. it doesnt mean someone else will get the same results because everyone is different. maybe my body tends to store fat more easily if i consume more fruit than you. not every opinion warrants a scientific explanation.


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## bulletproof1 (Sep 15, 2004)

ikam said:
			
		

> I doubt a grown woman needs someone to explain herself to me.
> 
> Complex carbs, simple sugars, Low/high GI, stop thinking in the box. Step outside, the air out here is fresh.
> 
> ...



i prefer to stay in the box that i know works for me.

as far as you getting your answer to your repetitive question, perhaps you should try rereading this thread. it is mentioned several times.


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## ikam (Sep 15, 2004)

You're missing my point. Read this, it will enighten you.

Quoted by SF

"Now what kills me is when people use "everyone is different" as a cop out for actually being intelligent on the subject. "What works for you may not work for me." Sorry, that's bullshit. That's what someone says when they don't want to understand there is a better way, and don't want to be shown what it is.

There are facts in this world as to how and why things are as they are. Why we breathe oxygen. How water hydrates the body. Protein's role in ATP. These things are known and have been proven time and again by science. Science doesn't lie. If it did lie, some of us would breathe hydrogen while others still breathed argon."

Btw, I've had zero carbs and it's 8:40am.


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## ikam (Sep 15, 2004)

bulletproof1 said:
			
		

> i prefer to stay in the box that i know works for me.
> 
> as far as you getting your answer to your repetitive question, perhaps you should try rereading this thread. it is mentioned several times.



You're missing my point and I think you're choosing to.


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## bulletproof1 (Sep 15, 2004)

sorry, i guess i am not easily enlightened. 

the success of a bodybuilder is by trying several techniques until they find what exactly works for them. anyone reading this thread (except you) will agree with me on this. some do 40-40-20 some do 33-33-33 some do 50-30-20. why? because everyones bodies do react differently. if you want a scientific reason for what i believe i cant give you 1. a lot of my knowledge has come from trial and error.


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## Jodi (Sep 15, 2004)

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/issa14.htm

And as bullet said, we ARE all different and I don't give a shit what SF said.

Now, I am done and I WILL not come back to this thread


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## Dale Mabry (Sep 15, 2004)

Jodi said:
			
		

> And as bullet said, we ARE all different and I don't give a shit what SF said.




Wrong, there is only one fruit for cutting, I give to you, that fruit...


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## Jodi (Sep 15, 2004)

I am staying away from fruit now


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