# Not Sleeping Well



## HoldDaMayo (Oct 26, 2003)

I know this is a problem... I know I REALLY need my sleep...

I am taking ECA stack 3 times a day and I know that is one of the causes... 

Do you guys know of anything safe that I can take to help sleep better?  I don't want to stop the ECA stack for another 3 weeks and I really need some quality sleep...


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## Mudge (Oct 26, 2003)

I use OTC sleeping pills from Wallgreens, something like 75 for $12, best deal I could fine. Same 25mg of substance as Tylenol PM and al the others, at much less cost.

I try to keep it to one a day, lately I have used 2 at 2 different nights. I try to come off on the weekends and let myself fall asleep, maybe an hour or so later than usual though. There is also SleepyTime Tea, too mild for me even at 2 tea bags, so screw it $$$.

How about simply not doing your ECA late in the day? Ephedrine has a 6 hour half life as an example, ephedra is probably similar or the same but I dont know.


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## HoldDaMayo (Oct 26, 2003)

yeah, i was thinking about that too... but I think it might be more caffeine than ephedra that's keeping me awake... I'm taking another supplement too with the ECA it's a generic Body Tech supp called Technadrine that has a variety of Amino Acids but it has more Caffeine in it... I'm kind of happy with the results so far though but I just toss and turn and wake up every hour or so... I might try some OTC sleeping pills... i didn't even think about that...


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## Mudge (Oct 26, 2003)

They work pretty well for me, they dont knock me out at 1, but they allow me to sleep. At 2 if you are fresh and have low tollerance, then it would probably knock you out, but I try to keep it easy and you do adjust to them which is another reason to try and take time off.

Average cup of coffee is around 100mg I believe, if you look at your ECA stack info that may make it clear why you have the problem. For me I try to not drink any coffee after 5PM or so, I have 2-3 cups a day.


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## derekisdman (Oct 26, 2003)

I don't know how, but my dad seems to drink coffee to wake up and go to sleep.  He drinks like 2 cups at 9 and 10 p.m. and sleeps only an hour or two after.  He's knocked out once he hits the pillow, don't know how he does it but I envy him.


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## heeholler (Oct 26, 2003)

You can also try melatonin.
Melatonin


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## Mudge (Oct 26, 2003)

I used to drink tons of coffee, tollerance was high, but I still dont recommend it at night.


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## TheDude (Oct 26, 2003)

Try 1mg of Time-release Melatonin (NOW Foods makes one)


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## HoldDaMayo (Oct 26, 2003)

thanks for the responses guys...


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## ZECH (Oct 27, 2003)

I would always not take eca any time after lunch. It would keep me awake.


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## FatGuy (Oct 27, 2003)

stop the eca.

tylenol pm is tylenol and benadryl.  diphenhydramine is the generic name for benadryl.

melatonin is a hormone and should not be messed with. 

i have sleep apnea, read up about it and see if you fit the profile.  sleeping pills and melatonin might zonk you out so much that your workouts suffer.    

turkey makes me tired.  lol


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## Mudge (Oct 27, 2003)

There is no proof that melatonin use is negative in any way. People with insufficient serotonin output, have ill melatonin output, which is my situation it seems.


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## FatGuy (Oct 27, 2003)

there is no proof because these things arent tested.  theres no proof that ephedra containing products are bad, but i have seen it personally hurt people.  (i work in an emergency room)

the truth of the matter is, theres no proof it hurts people, and theres no proof it doesnt.   i can put ultra slimfast in a blender and tell people its a super mass building shake and people will buy it.  these items are all chemicals that have not been tested.  there isnt even an agency that reguates what they claim.  

i dont understand how people will put any chemical in their bodies that is unregulated.  

what did they do years ago when all these medicines/supplements didnt exist?  were they still able to sleep?  stop taking those supplements that keep you awake.  its just like taking tylenol because you have hand pain, after you hit the hand with a hammer all day.  see what im saying?


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## Mudge (Oct 27, 2003)

There have been no long term studies, but we know enough that melatonin use is not akin to using extacy. Sure people can sleep without it, but do people sleep enough, not always.


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## FatGuy (Oct 27, 2003)

you are correct.   i am just tired and cranky    goodnight


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## butterfly (Oct 28, 2003)

I personally have to have perscription sleep pills, Ambien, but fade takes melatonin.  I would definitely try it before the OTC sleep aids.


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## oaktownboy (Oct 28, 2003)

i don't what it is..but i just cannot go to sleep until 11-12..I just am not tired...


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## FatGuy (Oct 28, 2003)

does it make sense to take supplements that wake you up then take something at night to make you tired?!?

ambien is not meant to be taken for more than 7 days in a row.  you can become dependant on it and it is a controlled substance.  might as well just smoke weed at night.


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## HoldDaMayo (Oct 28, 2003)

I'm going to finish this bottle of ECA, then probably do a bottole of that syntrax guggolowhateveritscalled... I am almost 180 pounds and take only the recommended dosage, i am careful in what I eat and am in very good shape as well as have had a FULL physical 2 months ago and all my cholesterol and blood pressure tests came out very very good... the doctor said I am doing very well...

I take these supplements because at this stage of the game... I'm 25 and about the fittest I have ever been and I would like to know how far I can really take it... it's just like Golf... you do everything you can to achieve a better score... I am motivated to do everything (that I feel physically safe with) to be the strongest and fastest and leanest I can possibly be... 

I don't wanna compete, but I do wanna look damn good...


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## Mudge (Oct 28, 2003)

There was a discussion on ambien on another board and yes everyone says its addictive. I do fine with OTC stuff, lately I have had to double it up some nights though 

I usually drop it on the weekends and stay up another hour or so anyway.


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## HoldDaMayo (Oct 28, 2003)

again last night, i had the worst sleep... which sux because I worked a really hard chest routine that evening and I know not getting the good sleep is hurting my progress... 

my little titties still hurt...


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## Mudge (Oct 28, 2003)

From what I remember, I woke up twice last night, then woke up in the morning about 45 minutes early.


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## HoldDaMayo (Oct 28, 2003)

i woke up at 12:30am, 2am, 4am, 5am, 6am and finally got out of bed at 6 cuz i couldn't stand laying there anymore... the fact i was at a hotel didn't help either...


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## FatGuy (Oct 28, 2003)

so, mudge, theres no way you can sleep unless you take pills?  sounds like you have a sleeping disorder or some supplement is not agreeing with you,   its not normal to have to take a sleep aid every night to get to sleep.  check with your doctor and good luck.


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## Mudge (Oct 28, 2003)

That is why I said twice, I drop it on the weekends.

I have had sleeping problems my entire life dude, I can recall back to being 5 and lying in bed NOT sleeping for an hour plus, it has always been this way. I have no doubts that its tied to serotonin, I have had periods where I have slept well, and those are the periods of time when I dont have anxiety etc etc issues, which has unfortunately been about 6 years ago.

I can sleep, it just takes long to get there. Right now though, I have other reasons for being woken up constantly.


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## FatGuy (Oct 28, 2003)

Polysomnography my friend.   go for a sleep study.  you will be glad you did.  there should be a doctor in your area that is board certified in sleep medicine.

my whole family went, its pretty simple.  they monitor your brain waves and sleeping patterns and see if you have some sleep problems.   i was the same way as you, my case was sleep apnea.  my brother too.   my father was having leg twitches in his sleep that were causing him to wake up frequently.   it could be a multitude of things.    

it can only help.  good luck.   oh, and you must have children....lol


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## Mudge (Oct 28, 2003)

I used to look at those goggles with LEDs that would induce certain brain states, have you studied those at all? I revisited the idea a few months ago, that would be a bitchin toy I think.

One thing that worked great, was listening to a tape of ocean waves with my walkman, I'd crash in about 30 minutes, till I was deep enough in that I could turn it off and set it down then off to sleep.

I always have noise in the background (white noise, not pink I believe, forget details though), a box fan and a regular little fan.

I have a friend with sleep apnea, female, runs in her family. I very rarely have twitches, and those are from dreams, usually early AM.


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## FatGuy (Oct 28, 2003)

no, i never heard of those goggles.  pm me more info about them as it is interesting to me.

ocean waves helped me too.  my problem wasnt falling asleep, it was staying asleep thru my apnic events. which i later found out woke me up about once every 45 seconds.  

relaxation exercises like meditating and yoga can only help you relax, just as pounding one out will help also..lol

eliminate all stimulants from your diet and start there.  maybe you need a new bed?  try adding extra pillows bc if you are a big guy, you might not be able to get comfortable.  

camomile tea also helps.


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## FatGuy (Oct 28, 2003)

oh, i took  stacker 2 once and didnt sleep a wink for 3 days !


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## Mudge (Oct 28, 2003)

Bed is good, couple years old. I do have an extra pillow that I hug in bed (that sounds bad I know ), if I dont use it then I have a hard time sleeping because of the width of my shoulders, I sleep on my side nearly constantly.

I've done sleepytime tea x2, it works "ok" but its miiiiiiiiild.

Let my jog my memory on the old catalog name that I used to have...


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## FatGuy (Oct 28, 2003)

i hug my extra pillow too, but its not due to my large muscles  lol  once i had a dream i ate a giant marshmallow and i woke up and my pillow was gone...lol  j/k


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## HoldDaMayo (Oct 28, 2003)

did he say rid your diet of all stimulants?  

DOH!!

Sorry, hope that sleep thing isn't too important... 

hehe...


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## FatGuy (Oct 28, 2003)

taking stimulants and complaining about not being able to sleep is like smoking 10 packs of cigarettes a day and compaining you cant breathe.


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## Mudge (Oct 28, 2003)

I drink 2-3 cups of coffee a day, I was down to 1 before, and avoided it once for a couple weeks - but I like it


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## Randy (Oct 29, 2003)

Forget the dam pills, I say Good Sex!  That is my prescription for a good deep sleep.  Well after the long sensual hours of good sex that is.


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## FatGuy (Oct 29, 2003)

> Forget the dam pills, I say Good Sex! That is my prescription for a good deep sleep. Well after the long sensual hours of good sex that is.


exactly, im suprised i didnt think of that one.  good job


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## BUSTINOUT (Oct 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> Forget the dam pills, I say Good Sex!  That is my prescription for a good deep sleep.  Well after the long sensual hours of good sex that is.



Then you must never get any sleep. 

HDM, I would try cutting your last eca dose of the day.  See if that helps.  Cutting one dose is not going to hurt.


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## Randy (Oct 29, 2003)

What was that Bustinout?.....I'm kinda tired this morning..


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