# I lift 3 times a week and here it is



## dontsurfonmytur (Oct 29, 2006)

Ok, cuz of work/jiu jitsu, i lift 3 times a week

2 of those 3 would be usually something like this:

reps are either 6 or 10 for compound, and 8 or 12 for isolation
sets are eitehr 3 or 4, depending on reps.

flat bench
chin/pull ups
incline bench
bent over bb rows
isolation (i do this quick and try to rest very minimal)
some sort of flies
some sort of tri cep movemtn, usually a pulley thing
some sort of bicep movement
abs

1 out of 3 is like a weird day
hang cleans * low reps
deadlifts * low reps
standing db military press
squats * high reps  ( should i change this to heavy low reps for mma or high reps are better for mma?
abs

(what shoul di add or take out?? 
should i do 2 days of the "weird day" or keep it the way it is
please the pros i need ur advice!!!


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## mike456 (Oct 29, 2006)

list the days you do jiu jitsu, and list your off days, if you are not getting one day of complete rest drop it down to a 2 day a week total body


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## Icy-Dice (Oct 29, 2006)

Its very bad because its too frequent. You think that when you wake up the next day and the soreness is gone youre healed? nope thats just that you recuperated with the microtears and the growing phase begins.When you workout agen your shortcircuiting it. Give yourself more rest fool.


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## Witchblade (Oct 29, 2006)

Icy-Dice said:


> Its very bad because its too frequent. You think that when you wake up the next day and the soreness is gone youre healed? nope thats just that you recuperated with the microtears and the growing phase begins.When you workout agen your shortcircuiting it. Give yourself more rest fool.


Muscle soreness is not caused by the microtears. And what do you know about his recovery abilities?


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## CowPimp (Oct 29, 2006)

It looks like you're trying to organize it into an upper body day and lower body day, basically.  Go ahead and layout your training schedule for the week including the days you do BJJ.  Also, if possible, list any days you are able to do two workouts, like an AM and PM workout.


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## JimSnow (Oct 29, 2006)

It amazes me that people think "more is better" in terms of quantity. I've developed my new body thinking one thing:

Quality.

Quality of program, nutrition, and above all... recovery.


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## dontsurfonmytur (Oct 29, 2006)

Monday: jiu jitsu
Tuesday: jiu jitsu
Wed: I lift (the upper body one) than do light cardio after work, lifting is before work
Thur: lift (the one wit the hang cleans)
Friday: rest
Sat: usually little bit of open mat (jiu jitsu) and light light cardio
sun: lift (upper body)


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## dontsurfonmytur (Oct 29, 2006)

So what should i do? anybody 
feel free to give me advice


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## mike456 (Oct 29, 2006)

dontsurfonmytur said:


> So what should i do? anybody
> feel free to give me advice



what are your goals? (size, strength, power) or are you asking what type of training you should be doing for mma? I think there was an article on t-nation about training for mma, I will try to find it for you.


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## dontsurfonmytur (Oct 29, 2006)

That would be awesome
i want to train for overall strength, power, speed, and would like to gain decent size also


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## mike456 (Oct 29, 2006)

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1083869

article on mma endurance,

as for your resistance training, since you have lots of different goals, definitely use undulating periodization

TBA
Deadlift
Flat Bench 
Row
Lunge
Power Movement (Hang Clean maybe)

TBB
Squat
Military Press
Pull-ups
One-leg RDLS
Power Movement (Snatch maybe)

week 1: 3x12
week 2: 4x8
week 3: 5x5
power movements always stay low in reps

hope that helps


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## CowPimp (Oct 29, 2006)

One more thing I forgot to ask.  How intense is BJJ training on your upper and lower body respectively?  Did you choose to only train the lower body once because of the intensity of the lower body training involved in your BJJ sessions?


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## JimSnow (Oct 29, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> One more thing I forgot to ask.  How intense is BJJ training on your upper and lower body respectively?  Did you choose to only train the lower body once because of the intensity of the lower body training involved in your BJJ sessions?



Your program can't be added to another intense program as he seems to suggest. As I see and work it... it will have to be "adaptive", I'm glad you asked this question.


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## dontsurfonmytur (Oct 29, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> One more thing I forgot to ask.  How intense is BJJ training on your upper and lower body respectively?  Did you choose to only train the lower body once because of the intensity of the lower body training involved in your BJJ sessions?



Sometimes we might do intense drills, but sometimes we wont

no i chose to work out my lowerbody once because i feel that cardio (running) is mostly lower body and that i dont want my legs to get any bigger than they are.
I think bjj is rough on the forearms the MOST, so more upperbody than lower.


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## dontsurfonmytur (Oct 29, 2006)

mike456 said:


> http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1083869
> 
> article on mma endurance,
> 
> ...



so u are syaing i should do 2 total bodys in one week? instead of 3?

also what is undulating periodization


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## CowPimp (Oct 30, 2006)

dontsurfonmytur said:


> Sometimes we might do intense drills, but sometimes we wont
> 
> no i chose to work out my lowerbody once because i feel that cardio (running) is mostly lower body and that i dont want my legs to get any bigger than they are.
> I think bjj is rough on the forearms the MOST, so more upperbody than lower.



Cardio isn't going to make your legs any bigger.  Well, I don't agree with anyone stopping the hypertrophy of their legs short; I think that's silly.  Anyway, that's your perogative.

If you want to do two upper body days, then I would organize it like so:

Upper body horizontal
Upper body vertical
Lower body

So you horizontal plane day would include:
Bench
Bent Rows
Incline Bench
<Insert 2nd rowing movement here>

Vertical plane day would include:
Chinups
DB Military Press
Pullups

The isolation exercises could be arranged so maybe one of the sessions you do chest and bicep isolation and the other you throw in some upper back and tricep isolation stuff, or something like that.

Lower body day:
Hang cleans
Deadlifts
Squats
<Core training shtuff>


Like mike said, some form of perioziation is good.  One week you could go heavier with low to moderate volume, another week you could go lighter and higher volume.  I would keep the hang cleans to sets of no more than 5-6 repetitions though.  Usually with power movements I stick to 5 reps or less.


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## BigTYR (Oct 30, 2006)

With only 3 days in the gym I would do a push, pull, leg workout. When I was in sports we did not have a ton of time to lift and hitting a muscle 1x a week was pleanty. With all the martial arts you do this might be better for you.


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## dontsurfonmytur (Oct 30, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Cardio isn't going to make your legs any bigger.  Well, I don't agree with anyone stopping the hypertrophy of their legs short; I think that's silly.  Anyway, that's your perogative.
> 
> If you want to do two upper body days, then I would organize it like so:
> 
> ...





TBA
Deadlift
Flat Bench 
Row
Lunge
Power Movement (Hang Clean maybe)

TBB
Squat
Military Press
Pull-ups
One-leg RDLS
Power Movement (Snatch maybe)

week 1: 3x12
week 2: 4x8
week 3: 5x5
power movements always stay low in reps

hope that helps







So. i can eitehr do what u said cowpimp, or what Mike said and do 2 total fullbodys a week. What do u think.
Also cowpmip, u agree with this:

week 1: 3x12
week 2: 4x8
week 3: 5x5

also, do deadlifts/squats count as power movement (low reps)


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## CowPimp (Oct 31, 2006)

dontsurfonmytur said:


> TBA
> Deadlift
> Flat Bench
> Row
> ...



I think you could handle working out 3 times a week.  I don't see any reason why you couldn't.  Mike's suggestion is totally reasonable though.

I think those loading parameters are good, yes.  It's close to what I use currently.

Anything can be a power movement if you use an intensity where you can invoke a high level of acceleration of the weight to be moved.  By nature the squat and deadlift are not power movements like a clean is, but they can be done with emphasis on improving the rate of force development.  Look at the Westside template.  Two days a week are devoted to improving this biomotor ability.


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## dontsurfonmytur (Oct 31, 2006)

*can i do the upperbody workout and lowerbody work out in 2 consecutive days??*
and maybe take 1 or 2 days off and THAN do the 2nd upeprbody workout?


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## dontsurfonmytur (Oct 31, 2006)

also i should do bicep isolation work when i do my chest?
and tricep isolation work when i do the vertical?? and traps allso go under here tooo right


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## SAMIAM (Oct 31, 2006)

You seem like a good candidate for a 2-3 x a week full body compound only routine*. 


Flat bench
military press
BB rows
Deadlift
Squat

you could alternate between 10 sets of 3 and 4 sets of 6 each workout, using 85-90%1rm for the 3's and 80-85% 1RM for the 6's.I'd do it every third day so you had two non-lifting days between each w/o.
 Focus on these few lifts with as much enthusiasm as most bring to thier curls (which BTW you wont miss at all - once your BB rows get around 80% of your body weight or more you'll kick yourself for wasting all that time on curls anyway !)  GOOD LUCK!!!


*IMHO of course...


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## CowPimp (Oct 31, 2006)

dontsurfonmytur said:


> *can i do the upperbody workout and lowerbody work out in 2 consecutive days??*
> and maybe take 1 or 2 days off and THAN do the 2nd upeprbody workout?



Isn't that how you had it laid out originally?  I think that makes sense.

Also, I don't think it really matters where you throw the isolation stuff.  That's your call.


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## dontsurfonmytur (Oct 31, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Isn't that how you had it laid out originally?  I think that makes sense.
> 
> Also, I don't think it really matters where you throw the isolation stuff.  That's your call.



ok, cool.
Than i'll stick with the horizontal, lower (hang cleans 2), vertical.


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## dontsurfonmytur (Oct 31, 2006)

Also, should i do the push at once, than the pull, or alternate it like bench,rows,incilne bench, rows


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## CowPimp (Oct 31, 2006)

dontsurfonmytur said:


> Also, should i do the push at once, than the pull, or alternate it like bench,rows,incilne bench, rows



I prefer to alternate to mitigate the fatigue, but that's your call.


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## dontsurfonmytur (Oct 31, 2006)

ok good, that is what I did today. Let me show u my weekly plan

Today (workout 1):
Flat bench 3x12
bb rows 3x12
incline bench 3x12
db rows 3x12
machine flies 3x12
ez bar close grip curls 3x12

Tomorrow (workout 2)
Hang cleans 5x5
Deadlifts
Squats  (i dont know if i should go low or high rep for these 2?)



Workout 3
Pull ups (how do i do reps for this, what if i cant do 12 of my body weight)
db military press 3x12
chin ups (same problem for pull ups)
dips (same thing with the pull/chin ups)
db shrugs 3x12
tricep isolation 3x12

??????? help!


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## P-funk (Oct 31, 2006)

you are making this hard on yourself.

Just have to workouts, an A day and a B day.  And then arrange 3 differnet loading parameters for three days of the week:

day1- 3x3-5

day2- 3x6-8

day3- 3x10-12

Just keep it simple.


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## CowPimp (Oct 31, 2006)

P-funk said:


> you are making this hard on yourself.
> 
> Just have to workouts, an A day and a B day.  And then arrange 3 differnet loading parameters for three days of the week:
> 
> ...



That's actually how I do it, sort of.  I have a couple of strength exercises to start, but the accessory work is organized very similar to that.  The intensities of the strength and accessory work coincide though: a lighter day with higher volume, heavier day with lower volume, and a medium day with moderate volume.


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## P-funk (Oct 31, 2006)

what do you mean a couple strength exercises to start?


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## P-funk (Oct 31, 2006)

oh, never mind....you mean that you have a strength exercise on each day and the assistnace lifts fallow these parameters.


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## dontsurfonmytur (Oct 31, 2006)

wait im getting confused, so i should laternate workout A and B, but every time i work out use a different rep/set ??

I get confused when more than 1 expert gives me advice, cuz than i dont know whose advice to follow. How would u set up 2 workouts for me p funk?


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## CowPimp (Nov 1, 2006)

P-funk said:


> oh, never mind....you mean that you have a strength exercise on each day and the assistnace lifts fallow these parameters.



Yeah, exactly.  However, I do have the strength exercises alternate intensities in the same fashion as the assistance stuff; the strength work just consistently stays a little higher in intensity and lower in volume.


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## CowPimp (Nov 1, 2006)

dontsurfonmytur said:


> wait im getting confused, so i should laternate workout A and B, but every time i work out use a different rep/set ??
> 
> I get confused when more than 1 expert gives me advice, cuz than i dont know whose advice to follow. How would u set up 2 workouts for me p funk?



There is more than one way to setup a program.  The method P recommended is basically what mike456 suggested, except you are working out 3 days a week instead of 2.


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## dontsurfonmytur (Nov 1, 2006)

well today, iam gona do my lower body workout
i will keep hang cleans to 5x5
but what about deadlifts?? shoul di do 5x5 for this 2?
what about squats, 5x5 or 3x12??

what else can i add to this??

most likely i'll add sum cardio


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## dontsurfonmytur (Nov 1, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Yeah, exactly.  However, I do have the strength exercises alternate intensities in the same fashion as the assistance stuff; the strength work just consistently stays *a little higher in intensity and lower in volume*.




does that mean u usually ahve the strength work  with low reps and high sets? for instance..????


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## CowPimp (Nov 1, 2006)

dontsurfonmytur said:


> does that mean u usually ahve the strength work  with low reps and high sets? for instance..????



Here is what my program looks like:

Light day the strength stuff is 4x4 @ 70% 1RM; assistance stuff is 3x12 @ 60-65% 1RM.  30 second rest intervals are used throughout.

Medium day the strength stuff is 3x3 @ 80% 1RM; assistance stuff is 4x8 @ 70-75% 1RM.  60 second rest intervals are used throughout.

Heavy day the strength stuff is 6x1 @ 90% 1RM; assistance stuff is 4x5 @ 80-85% 1RM.  75 second rest intervals are used throughout.


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## dontsurfonmytur (Nov 1, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Here is what my program looks like:
> 
> Light day the strength stuff is 4x4 @ 70% 1RM; assistance stuff is 3x12 @ 60-65% 1RM.  30 second rest intervals are used throughout.
> 
> ...



what is ur "sternght stuff" like bench press? or does bench go under ur assistance??  

Also, what can i add to my lower body workout day.??

Should i keep the deadlifts/squats at 5x5 ish or 3x12 ish?? for the week that im doing 3x12.

also i think im gona have a trouble with the 3x12 for my vertical movement day. Because i cant do 3x12 pull ups, so the bodyweight stuff should i just go all out every set?


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## CowPimp (Nov 2, 2006)

dontsurfonmytur said:


> what is ur "sternght stuff" like bench press? or does bench go under ur assistance??
> 
> Also, what can i add to my lower body workout day.??
> 
> ...



The strength exercises I am currently using:

Day A:
Deadlift
Chinup

Day B:
Back Squat
Bench Press


You can use different exercises.  I also like overhead pressing, front squats, trap bar deadlifts, etc.

If you're going light, then go light with everything.  Give your body that rest.  Notice that when I do 4x4 on my light days, I am using a weight I could complete for 12 repetitions (About 70% of my 1RM), so the sets are relatively easy.

Don't worry about it too much if you can't do 3 sets of 12 with chinups.  Just do 3 sets of what you can, or do more sets of fewer repetitions with just your bodyweight to pick up the volume (6 sets of 6, for example).


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## Raz (Nov 2, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> The strength exercises I am currently using:
> 
> Day A:
> Deadlift
> ...



I don't understand this CP. Why would you do low reps with a light weight? It seems as though your cheating yourself. This makes the % and stuff hard for me to work out!  I usually just go off reps and % of what my 1rm is.

Can you explain please, I'm confused


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## P-funk (Nov 2, 2006)

Raz said:


> I don't understand this CP. Why would you do low reps with a light weight? It seems as though your cheating yourself. This makes the % and stuff hard for me to work out!  I usually just go off reps and % of what my 1rm is.
> 
> Can you explain please, I'm confused



power = work/time

work = force x distance

so,

power = (force x distance)/time

with his 12RM (70% of a 1RM), he is able to work on his rate of force development (power application) by moving the weight as fast as possible.  This has been shown to help enhance intramuscular coordination, motor unit firing rate, rate coding, etc......It is the same concept as plyometrics.


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## CowPimp (Nov 2, 2006)

Raz said:


> I don't understand this CP. Why would you do low reps with a light weight? It seems as though your cheating yourself. This makes the % and stuff hard for me to work out!  I usually just go off reps and % of what my 1rm is.
> 
> Can you explain please, I'm confused



I actually didn't design it like that because of what P suggested, though dynamic effort training is certainly useful, and I do try and implement compensatory acceleration when I am lifting.  

That day is a light day for me, so it's really more of an unload on these exercises.  I still like to keep them included in on that day because it allows me to use more volume and frequency while practicing technique with some submaximal weigihts.  It is supposed to be easy, but if you want to get good at something you need to practice it.  Therefore, this allows me some quality repetitions of the desired movements to improve at without stressing my nervous system too much.


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## dontsurfonmytur (Nov 2, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> The strength exercises I am currently using:
> 
> Day A:
> Deadlift
> ...




I am not sure if thats the program i was recommended to do, whre u have alight day, moderate day, and a heavy day. (or week)

i thougth i was adviced to do like 3x12 week 1, 4x8 week 2, than 5x5 week 3?

doesnt that mean that i should go my 12RM for the 3x12 and my 8rm for 4x8 and so on??


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## dontsurfonmytur (Nov 2, 2006)

Because I dont want to go high reps on my lower body workout day, what setsxreps should i use other than 5x5? Or should i do the light, moderate, heavy day like you do for my lower body day?

Also after I do relatively heavy squats, after can i do some light squats but like very very high reps? 25-50??


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## CowPimp (Nov 2, 2006)

Relax and just pick something.  Don't nitpick it so much.


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## Raz (Nov 3, 2006)

CP and P, thanks for the replies I understand it now.

I get what you mean CP, I never thought of it like that. Great Idea. Thanks Alot.


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## dontsurfonmytur (Nov 3, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Relax and just pick something.  Don't nitpick it so much.



yes u r right, but just one last question, is it alright if i always keep my hang cleans and dead lifts low reps and go as heavy as i can for those set amount of reps, and the squats relatively high reps 15+??


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## CowPimp (Nov 3, 2006)

dontsurfonmytur said:


> yes u r right, but just one last question, is it alright if i always keep my hang cleans and dead lifts low reps and go as heavy as i can for those set amount of reps, and the squats relatively high reps 15+??



I would always keep the cleans low reps, but vary the intensity.  A technical lift like that is likely to suffer breakdown of form with higher repetitions.

I would periodize with the deadlifts and not always lift heavy with them.


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