# Newbie to Deca Durabolin



## physcst (Aug 14, 2010)

Hello,

1) Age - 38
2) Weight and Percent BodyFat - 195 lbs and 22% body fat
3) Years of Consistant Training experience - 10 years of consistent training experience
4) Previous Cycle experience - One month PH cycles of SSL Incredible Bulk (2 pills per day) and Letrozole (1 ml every day). Also one month PCT of Tamoxifen (1 ml every day) and Clomid (1 ml every day).
5) Training routine and Diet - gym workouts 4 - 5 times per week. Every gym workout starts with 1 - 2 miles of jogging before hitting the weights. Total gym workouts are about 2.5 hours. Weight training includes the standards such as bench press, skull crushers, barbell curls, dumb bell curls, dumb bell press. Diet, I will concede is bad. I eat minimal calories to maximize fat burning with the frequent jogging.  I eat albacore tuna out of the can, protein bars, protein shakes, occasional steaks.
6)  Cycle Goals - I am looking to get my six pack to show for the first time in my life, although I understand that it is very difficult at my age. I am also looking for better arm and chest definition.

I am seeking advice on how to begin with Deca injections after using ph's for about 1 year.  I am wondering if 50mg Deca injections once a week is sufficient for noticeable and permanent gains? If not, what is the bare minimum dosage for noticeable/permanent gains? Also, is it wise to use Tamoxifen for both during and post Deca cycle?


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## VictorZ06 (Aug 14, 2010)

IMHO, your bf% is far to high to begin using any kind of AAS....especially deca.  

You should have a far lower one if you have ,"10 years of consistent training experience".  Fix your diet, get a better training program, lower your bf% to the lower teens before even considering use of AAS.  You will get conflicting advice.  

Diet is key...yours is broke.  Post your diet up and some of the diet pros here can throw some better advice for you in terms of fixing your diet.  Good luck.



/V


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## thapr3dat0r (Aug 14, 2010)

Most will not recommend using Deca alone. It is highly anabolic but not androgenic. If you've done your research, as I hope you have since your considering an AAS cycle, you should know that means your penis will not work among other side effects. Don't do it. 

Use Test by itself for a first AAS cycle and include it in every cycle thereafter. No test, no cycle. If your hell bent on running Deca, use test with it. 

Do this:
Test-E or Test-C: 500mg/week, 12 weeks. Kick it off with 4-6 weeks of your favorite oral. Dbol is popular but you can also use an over the counter designer oral (M-drol, Epistane, Havoc, Phera plex etc.)

Ok, now since you want more definition and based on your body fat, you need to cut. Plain and simple. Run this cycle as a cutting cycle. Only way your gonna do that is with a strict diet and lots of cardio. Still lift though, of course. Also, your workouts are too long. Do your jogging before you lift to warm up but keep your lifting sessions to 45-60 minutes. Intensity is more important than a long workout. And if you do run a cycle with test and/or deca you will probably bloat a bit. This is where diet, water intake, cardio and sodium intake is crucial.


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## lifthvy (Aug 14, 2010)

I am looking to get my six pack to show for the first time in my life, although I understand that it is very difficult at my age. I am also looking for better arm and chest definition.

Age has little to do with it..listen to Vic, YOUR DIET. It needs some cleaning up.  if you lower your bf% by half you will see better muscle definition all over. The LAST thing you need right now is deca considering the bloating effects and your Bf%. Lower your BF%, then make a decision on using aas. At that point, var may be an option for you to include in whatever cycle you choose. Good Luck man


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## letsgetbig (Aug 14, 2010)

abs come with diet, second the bf% way to high, and i have a question for you when you did the Ph why would you run letro with that? or a better question why would you run letro at all.. just asking.. if your at 22% bf and run aas your only going to get a bigger version of what you are now..


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## ROID (Aug 14, 2010)

physcst said:


> Hello,
> 
> 1) Age - 38
> 2) Weight and Percent BodyFat - 195 lbs and 22% body fat
> ...



do you have a degree in physics ?

what is your profession ?

This has nothing to do with your questions, just curious about your tag.


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## 07bobber (Aug 15, 2010)

why dont you get some blood work done and see where your levels are at before you start anything else


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## unclem (Aug 15, 2010)

i agree your bf is real high, i dont know dieting that well so ill pass on that but deca is not the proper choice for you or your first aas cycle , test is best for that. but like everybody get your bf down then think of aas.


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## physcst (Aug 16, 2010)

I've kind of held back on any blood work out of fear of the blood work showing evidence of the SSL Incredible Bulk PH I've been taking. I plan on having some blood work done prior to beginning any AAS. Its also kind of difficult to find a doctor willing to advise their patients while on AAS.


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## physcst (Aug 16, 2010)

unclem said:


> i agree your bf is real high, i dont know dieting that well so ill pass on that but deca is not the proper choice for you or your first aas cycle , test is best for that. but like everybody get your bf down then think of aas.


I forgot to mention that I just completed a testosterone cycle in between SSL Incredible Bulk PH cycles. I decided to start with a test cycle (called Andriol,  60mg pills 4 times/day, 240mg total per day) hoping to get more permanent results than the PH I was using. I was surprised to see that I got better gains from the PH. I was not happy at all with Andriol, specially because of its price, just too expensive. Once I finished the Andriol cycle, I started another PH cycle which I am just now completing. I have one more PH cycle and 2 PCT cycles to go before I begin the Deca cycle.


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## ROID (Aug 16, 2010)

physcst said:


> I forgot to mention that I just completed a testosterone cycle in between SSL Incredible Bulk PH cycles. I decided to start with a test cycle (called Andriol,  60mg pills 4 times/day, 240mg total per day) hoping to get more permanent results than the PH I was using. I was surprised to see that I got better gains from the PH. I was not happy at all with Andriol, specially because of its price, just too expensive. Once I finished the Andriol cycle, I started another PH cycle which I am just now completing. I have one more PH cycle and 2 PCT cycles to go before I begin the Deca cycle.



since you are set on using gear, Deca by itself is a poor choice.

What are you referring to when you say PCT cycle ?


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## physcst (Aug 16, 2010)

VictorZ06 said:


> IMHO, your bf% is far to high to begin using any kind of AAS....especially deca.
> 
> You should have a far lower one if you have ,"10 years of consistent training experience".  Fix your diet, get a better training program, lower your bf% to the lower teens before even considering use of AAS.  You will get conflicting advice.
> 
> ...


I going to clarify a misrepresentation of mine. I have not consistently worked out over the last 10 years. I have worked out off and on over the last 10 years. About 12 years ago I was very over weight and weighed 250 lbs, then I dropped to 185 lbs and 17% bf with an ultra strict diet and needless to say I had a little bit of excess skin around the abdominal area. I began working out 10 years ago and gained about 10 - 15 lbs of muscle and maintained this trend for about 6 years. I then stopped working out for about 3 years and gained about 15 lbs and went up to 30% bf. About 8 months ago I started working out hard again and have gone back down to 195lbs and 22% bf. My bf is going down, but it just takes time.


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## ROID (Aug 16, 2010)

physcst said:


> I going to clarify a misrepresentation of mine. I have not consistently worked out over the last 10 years. I have worked out off and on over the last 10 years. About 12 years ago I was very over weight and weighed 250 lbs, then I dropped to 185 lbs and 17% bf with an ultra strict diet and needless to say I had a little bit of excess skin around the abdominal area. I began working out 10 years ago and gained about 10 - 15 lbs of muscle and maintained this trend for about 6 years. I then stopped working out for about 3 years and gained about 15 lbs and went up to 30% bf. About 8 months ago I started working out hard again and have gone back down to 195lbs and 22% bf. My bf is going down, but it just takes time.



None of this changes the fact that using deca is not a good option.


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## blergs. (Aug 16, 2010)

DONT use deca alone.
a light cycle yet some gaines I would rec:
wk1-14 400mg testcyp or e ew
wk1-12 300mg deca ew
wk16-20 pct.

I  found GP's deca very light and got decent gains from it.
also would rec testcyp GP ofer the testE, thow boh would be fine.

Dont run deca only.


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## blergs. (Aug 16, 2010)

physcst said:


> I forgot to mention that I just completed a testosterone cycle in between SSL Incredible Bulk PH cycles. I decided to start with *a test cycle (called Andriol,  60mg pills 4 times/day, 240mg total per day)* hoping to get more permanent results than the PH I was using. I was surprised to see that I got better gains from the PH. I was not happy at all with Andriol, specially because of its price, just too expensive. Once I finished the Andriol cycle, I started another PH cycle which I am just now completing. I have one more PH cycle and 2 PCT cycles to go before I begin the Deca cycle.


not same. atleast take 200-300mg teste or cyp ew.
but judging from your postes i dont think your ready for aas right now.


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## fab6 (Aug 16, 2010)

deca kills you penis, what do you need to combat this? hcg, etc what


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## physcst (Aug 16, 2010)

ROID said:


> since you are set on using gear, Deca by itself is a poor choice.
> 
> What are you referring to when you say PCT cycle ?


PCT - Post Cycle Therapy for one month, I take Tamoxifen/Clomid 1ml every day.


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## physcst (Aug 16, 2010)

ROID said:


> do you have a degree in physics ?
> 
> what is your profession ?
> 
> This has nothing to do with your questions, just curious about your tag.


Yes I have an M.S. Physics and work as an engineer in the space industry.


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## withoutrulers (Aug 16, 2010)

ROID said:


> do you have a degree in anal play ?
> 
> what is your penis length ?
> 
> This has nothing to do with your questions, just bi-curious about you fags.


I can read your mind


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## weldingman (Aug 16, 2010)

I have a masters in anal.


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## ROID (Aug 17, 2010)

physcst said:


> Yes I have an M.S. Physics and work as an engineer in the space industry.



Awesome....I'm working toward that myself.


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## physcst (Aug 17, 2010)

I really appreciate everyone's Deca recommendations. It sounds like everyone is recommending 300 - 400mg Deca per week in combination with 300mg of some sort of testosterone. I have read that any Deca dosages above 400mg/week will definitely effect the body's natural testosterone production. I have also read that Deca Dosages of 200mg/week will not effect the body's natural testosterone production too much if the cycle is less than 12 weeks which implies Deca is testicle friendly if the Deca intake is 200mg/week or less. Is this low dosage sufficient for noticeable gains? I've also read that Deca helps increase the body's metabolic rate which in turn accelerates the body's fat burning ability. Does anyone know if this is true?


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## VictorZ06 (Aug 17, 2010)

We take low doses of deca for joint pain/relief and it is effective used this way.  For mass or for a regular cycle, your deca dose should not be higher than your test dose.



/V


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## physcst (Aug 17, 2010)

letsgetbig said:


> abs come with diet, second the bf% way to high, and i have a question for you when you did the Ph why would you run letro with that? or a better question why would you run letro at all.. just asking.. if your at 22% bf and run aas your only going to get a bigger version of what you are now..


letsgetbig,
I just saw your question a little while ago. About 6 years ago I experimented with PHs and considered them decent in terms of results because they were legal back then. Having had this previous PH experience I now decided to try the PH "Incredible Bulk" by SSL. By far, the "Incredible Bulk" gave me the best results in terms of strength gain, I was lifting 30 - 40 lbs more in one month. I also had a 15 lb weight gain that was mostly water weight which indicated a high degree of aromitization. Letrozole is an estrogen inhibitor which suppresses the estrogen in your body almost down to zero which in turn almost completely blocks the extra estrogen produced by the "Incredible Bulk". With the Incredible Bulk and letrozole combination I have the strength gains but not so much water weight gain. I still gain muscle mass with this combination (about 5 lbs) and the muscle gains tends to be much more dense. However, with the Incredible Bulk PH, I lose almost 100 of the mass gain when I am done with my PCT. This is why I am switching from PHs to Deca/Test. I am wondering why you would ask "Why I should even bother with the letrozole at all"? I will say this from personal experience, I have tried the PH cycle with Tamoxifen  and had nice results although not permanent. I have also just completed a back to back testosterone/letrozole cycle and an Incredible Bulk/letrozole cycle with no PCT in between. That's roughly 2.5 months of letrozole without any breaks and my body feels like crap. I feel fatigued and with aching joints and muscles. Needless to say I am going in for some blood work...


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## LAM (Aug 17, 2010)

honestly at 22% I would get your body fat percentage down before you decided to "bulk up" anymore.  right now your body fat percentage is high which means insulin sensitivity is low in your body.  at 22% you will gain substantially more fat than muscle because of the way nutrients are partitioned in respect to insulin sensitivity.


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## physcst (Aug 17, 2010)

ROID said:


> do you have a degree in physics ?
> 
> what is your profession ?
> 
> This has nothing to do with your questions, just curious about your tag.


ROID sorry but I cant respond to your message. Apparently I haven't racked up enough points to respond to PMs. I guess I'm too new to this site.


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## physcst (Aug 17, 2010)

LAM said:


> honestly at 22% I would get your body fat percentage down before you decided to "bulk up" anymore.  right now your body fat percentage is high which means insulin sensitivity is low in your body.  at 22% you will gain substantially more fat than muscle because of the way nutrients are partitioned in respect to insulin sensitivity.


That was an excellent explanation. Thank you for that. I will be posting new questions on dieting and suggested workout routines because I still have a long way to go to drop the body fat. With the letro and clomid/tamoxifen during PCT I have been able to drop bf somewhat quickly. Does anyone know if localized/focused ab workouts help reduce ab bf faster in combination with lots of cardio? I tend to work on my legs and arms alot and I have low bf in those areas. I just can't seem to get rid of those love handles I've had since I was fat 8 year old kid.


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