# Winny...oral or injection???



## cutright (Dec 22, 2010)

I was curious to which you would prefer to run with Test E...I know what the books say but I wanted to hear from people who have had experiance with these compounds. Positives and negatives


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## stronger4ever (Dec 22, 2010)

Injection .


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## hackskii (Dec 22, 2010)

Oral
Stressing the liver tends to work better.
Injectable winstrol has a high incidence of abbess compared to other gears.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cutright (Dec 22, 2010)

hackskii said:


> Oral
> Stressing the liver tends to work better.
> Injectable winstrol has a high incidence of abbess compared to other gears.
> 
> ...


They say the synergistic effect is better with the oral...that's why I made this post..thinking of adding it for my next cycle...thanks for any feedback


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## stronger4ever (Dec 22, 2010)

hackskii said:


> Stressing the liver tends to work better.



 ^^^I found that very interesting ^^^... I would think stressing your liver works better.. at killing you.  Besides Orals are not as effective. 

When you inject there is a risk you could get abbess but when you take orals you can be sure you're fucking up your liver.


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## GMO (Dec 22, 2010)

I've done both and prefer the injectable.  FYI, you can take the injectable orally as well.


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## cutright (Dec 22, 2010)

stronger4ever said:


> ^^^I found that very interesting ^^^... I would think stressing your liver works better.. at killing you.  Besides Orals are not as effective.
> 
> When you inject there is a risk you could get abbess but when you take orals you can be sure you're fucking up your liver.



If you get the same bang for your Buck...saving the liver sounds nice...if that's the case just wondering why so many people choose oral over inject.


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## stronger4ever (Dec 22, 2010)

cutright said:


> If you get the same bang for your Buck...saving the liver sounds nice...if that's the case just wondering why so many people choose oral over inject.



Probably because it is cheaper bro. I've got much better results from the injectable doing a much lower dosage. Besides I don't see where it says most people prefer orals, maybe those afraid of needles. I don't think there is doubt that injectables are much more effective than orals in general.


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## cutright (Dec 22, 2010)

stronger4ever said:


> Probably because it is cheaper bro. I've got much better results from the injectable doing a much lower dosage. Besides I don't see where it says most people prefer orals, maybe those afraid of needles. I don't think there is doubt that injectables are much more effective than orals in general.



What did you find to be the most effective dose with the injection


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## cavtrooper96 (Dec 22, 2010)

Unless you are very lean I would find something else to stack with some test. Usually used for precontest


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## stronger4ever (Dec 22, 2010)

cavtrooper96 said:


> Unless you are very lean I would find something else to stack with some test. Usually used for precontest



^^^This is also true.^^^


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Dec 22, 2010)

I prefer all injectable cycles. Orals are only if I need a little extra something.


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## The Prototype (Dec 22, 2010)

Use oral and save yourself a lot of pain and headache of injecting. I took oral a few years ago and got pretty jacked on it. Never did injectable but all reports say it's very painful.


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## Vibrant (Dec 22, 2010)

GMO said:


> I've done both and prefer the injectable.  FYI, you can take the injectable orally as well.



Wait, what the hell? I don't get the point of taking an injectable orally. Could you clarify what you mean by that? I thought that orals were specifically designed to not be broken down by your liver and digestive system.


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## The Prototype (Dec 22, 2010)

You can drink your injectable winny. Not sure how it effects it's potency though.


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## BigBird (Dec 23, 2010)

Nitrogen retention will be significantly higher with the injectable version.  However, the injections are painful (short-lived discomfort).  I've only experienced the oral winny (50mg ED) and it made my skin tighter and muscles went from hard to rock hard.  Joints did hurt though until I added Deca to the stack.  I don't think you need to inject it everyday as I've heard/read EOD will suffice.


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## Crank (Dec 23, 2010)

just drink the injectable lol


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## dave 236 (Dec 23, 2010)

Crank said:


> just drink the injectable lol


This is the way I use it. I've done it both ways with no noticiable difference in results;both worked.By the way liver stress is inevitable with winnie no matter if you inject or drink it.


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## Grozny (Dec 23, 2010)

dave 236 said:


> This is the way I use it. I've done it both ways with no noticiable difference in results;both worked.By the way liver stress is inevitable with winnie no matter if you inject or drink it.



i used to believe that but its not quite true.

Im pretty sensitive to tabs and taking 50 mg of winny tabs ed will have my liver act up within 2-3 days. 

with inj, and especially desma ive been taking it for now a month at 1  amp ed, and i have no liver or gastrointestinal issues whatsoever.

I believe it has to do with the amount that is available to the liver to  break down at a given time, tabs hit you with the full 50 mg, while  (since inj desma is supposed to be long acting - at least according to  the instruction leaflet!) the inj is slowly released over time so the  liver has an easier time to deal with and deactivates much smaller  amounts at a time.

This is the only logical explanation really.


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## Crank (Dec 23, 2010)

the orals dont give me same results....


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## XYZ (Dec 23, 2010)

WTF????  COME ON YOU GUYS.

Half of you have no idea.  You can drink the injectable, and there is *ZERO* difference between the solid tabs and the injectable liquid....*NONE*.


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## XYZ (Dec 23, 2010)

BigBird said:


> Nitrogen retention will be significantly higher with the injectable version. However, the injections are painful (short-lived discomfort). I've only experienced the oral winny (50mg ED) and it made my skin tighter and muscles went from hard to rock hard. Joints did hurt though until I added Deca to the stack. I don't think you need to inject it everyday as I've heard/read EOD will suffice.


 
FYI - The half life is 9 hours, you need to dose it ED.  Where did the information come from about nitrogen retention?  Just curious.


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## XYZ (Dec 23, 2010)

Vibrant said:


> Wait, what the hell? I don't get the point of taking an injectable orally. Could you clarify what you mean by that? I thought that orals were specifically designed to not be broken down by your liver and digestive system.


 

The injectable form is not (usually 99.9% of the time) suspended in oil.  It's a water base which is soluble via oral administration, thus you can drink it or inject it.


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## SUPERFLY1234 (Dec 23, 2010)

i like taking the oral, it is easier, when is do winny i take an am and pm dose,


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## BigBird (Dec 23, 2010)

CT said:


> FYI - The half life is 9 hours, you need to dose it ED. Where did the information come from about nitrogen retention? Just curious.


 

I've read it in several places over the years and it's one of the pieces of info that always stuck with me. One place I believe was the World Anabolic Review 1996 edition, and several websites one of which I "think" is isteroids.com and maybe even mesomorphosis.com by Bill Roberts as well as several more books/articles/sites, etc.  They've given similar info. That is, the injectable version has typically been noted to give slightly better results. The nitrogen retention was the main difference. The half life for the orals is 9 hours - not sure off hand what is for the depot. I've seen the depot work EOD at 50-100mg with success. I know it's an aqueous solution but it must have a half life longer than the oral b/c it doesn't go directly through the liver, at least not in the same way the oral does as I'm sure you know.


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## LAM (Dec 23, 2010)

CT said:


> WTF????  COME ON YOU GUYS.
> 
> Half of you have no idea.  You can drink the injectable, and there is *ZERO* difference between the solid tabs and the injectable liquid....*NONE*.



big ditto....this is Winstrol 101


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## XYZ (Dec 23, 2010)

BigBird said:


> I've read it in several places over the years and it's one of the pieces of info that always stuck with me. One place I believe was the World Anabolic Review 1996 edition, and several websites one of which I "think" is isteroids.com and maybe even mesomorphosis.com by Bill Roberts as well as several more books/articles/sites, etc. They've given similar info. That is, the injectable version has typically been noted to give slightly better results. The nitrogen retention was the main difference. The half life for the orals is 9 hours - not sure off hand what is for the depot. I've seen the depot work EOD at 50-100mg with success. I know it's an aqueous solution but it must have a half life longer than the oral b/c it doesn't go directly through the liver, at least not in the same way the oral does as I'm sure you know.


 
The oral and liquid passes through the liver the exact same way, is there some type of highway for one a dirt road for the other?  The half life is the exact same, there is no difference at all.  EOD dosing with a 9 hour half life is a sure fire way to have unstable blood levels.

Post up that information if you have it, seeing that it's almost 15 years old it might be outdated.


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## BigBird (Dec 23, 2010)

Yeah, I'll definately try to find the source(s), but as you said it could still be outdated.  I believe you if you say their half-lives are the same but I figured something passing through the liver would have a shorter half life as something injected IM.  It's a fact that I did read the nitrogen retention item (aside from the fact it could be true or false info).  If I can find one of the previous sources I will post.


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## XYZ (Dec 23, 2010)

BigBird said:


> Yeah, I'll definately try to find the source(s), but as you said it could still be outdated. I believe you if you say their half-lives are the same but I figured something passing through the liver would have a shorter half life as something injected IM. It's a fact that I did read the nitrogen retention item (aside from the fact it could be true or false info). If I can find one of the previous sources I will post.


 
Not doubting you Bro, just curious.  Maybe I can learn something new as well.


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## BigBird (Dec 23, 2010)

CT said:


> The oral and liquid passes through the liver the exact same way, is there some type of highway for one a dirt road for the other? The half life is the exact same, there is no difference at all. EOD dosing with a 9 hour half life is a sure fire way to have unstable blood levels.
> 
> Post up that information if you have it, seeing that it's almost 15 years old it might be outdated.


 
One place I just found the nitrogen retention reference is at website below.  I'm curious to see if I can find it stated elswhere too.

Winstrol-Stanozolol

Also, the following link states the injectable avoids the "first pass" through the liver therefore the possibility of liver issues are lower with the injectable.  However, it is "still broken down by the liver but at a lower (yet continued) level of stress."

Steroid Profiles - Winstrol® (stanozolol) - Steroidology.com


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## teepee (Dec 23, 2010)

CT said:


> WTF????  COME ON YOU GUYS.
> 
> Half of you have no idea.  You can drink the injectable, and there is *ZERO* difference between the solid tabs and the injectable liquid....*NONE*.



I'm no pro but I cant believe how uneducated are about some of these drugs! Winny suspended in oil just sounds retarded.

And from personal experience if you drink it, for example if u would plan to run it 50mg by injecting use more like 75mg, and split it into 2 doses.

Not all Winny hurts either


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## Crank (Dec 23, 2010)

So as you can see,  	when you take an oral steroid such as Winstrol, undergoes a first-pass metabolism  	in the both the intestines as well as liver. Some drugs can be absorbed more  	or less totally intact, after only moderate metabolic activity, while some are  	absorbed only after very extensive metabolic activity. Once it is through this  	first pass, a given drug then circulates in the blood until it is acquired by  	another tissue, such as skeletal muscle. Now, if the drug reaches the liver  	again, it may undergo what is cleverly known as ???second-pass??? metabolism. Of  	course, in the case of Winstrol, an injectable version is available, and when  	we compare the oral and injectable versions of Winstrol and their effects in  	your body, I think there???s some surprising differences. The injectable is (naturally)  	put right into your bloodstream and only undergoes the far less extensive second  	pass metabolism, while the oral must endure the gut and liver on it???s first  	pass before ending up in circulation.
 	Now, here???s the interesting  	part: When you inject Winstrol, instead of taking it orally, you actually get  	more nitrogen retention (4) (and hence we can infer, more new muscle tissue  	is being built). SO if you are trying to use Winstrol to build new muscle tissue,  	the injectable version is going to be far superior to the Oral version. However,  	there are some advantages that the oral version has over the injectable, including  	a possible ???synergy??? with other drugs- but only (primarily) when taken orally. 	
 	While in the liver,  	on it???s first pass, Winstrol is exposed to a variety of enzymes and proteins.  	To understand how a possible synergy between Winstrol and other steroids may  	be possible, a little background on Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) is first  	necessary. For our purposes here, all we need to know is that SHBG is a glycoprotein  	produced in the liver, which binds to testosterone and makes it biologically  	unavailable to do all the things we want it to do- like building muscle. It  	serves to transport testosterone throughout the body, but while it remains bound  	to testosterone, the testosterone can not exert it???s anabolic effects. 	
 








  	As you can surmise,  	a very large portion of the testosterone in your body is bound to SHBG. Wouldn???t  	it be great if we could lower SHBG? With Winstrol we can. 
 	A fairly conservative  	oral dose of .2mg/kg of Winstrol has been shown to lower SHBG by close to 50%.  	(8)For me (200lbs) this would mean I would only need around 18mgs/day to free  	up half of my SHBG bound testosterone! For my omnipresent and hypothetical ???100kg  	bodybuilder???- only 20mgs would be needed (he???s 220 lbs for the metrically impaired  	among us). Now, with less SHBG floating around in me, my anabolic steroid cycle  	will be more effective, right? Right.
 	But why can we only  	expect such a dramatic lowering of SHBG with the oral? Well, obviously, we???re  	taking advantage of the first pass through the liver, where we can have our  	Winstrol interact with SHBG where it???s produced- in the liver???without going  	through the bloodstream first. 
 	When we take a look  	at a study done comparing injectable vs. oral contraceptives, we find that the  	oral version at 70mgs/week (10mgs/day given orally) is more effective at affecting  	SHBG levels than 400mgs/week given via an injection! (9)In this study, testosterone  	undecanoate was given at a constant dose along with norestisterone (which raises  	SHBG). What we see is that when norestisterone is given orally, it produces  	a far greater effect on SHBG, than when it is administered via an injection.  	And this is even when the doses of the injectable are 4x higher!


Read more from this MESO-Rx article at:  Winstrol - Oral versus Injectable (More Different Than You Think!) by Anthony Roberts

looks pretty legit...  
​


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## BigBird (Dec 23, 2010)

Crank said:


> So as you can see,     when you take an oral steroid such as Winstrol, undergoes a first-pass metabolism     in the both the intestines as well as liver. Some drugs can be absorbed more     or less totally intact, after only moderate metabolic activity, while some are     absorbed only after very extensive metabolic activity. Once it is through this     first pass, a given drug then circulates in the blood until it is acquired by     another tissue, such as skeletal muscle. Now, if the drug reaches the liver     again, it may undergo what is cleverly known as ???second-pass??? metabolism. Of     course, in the case of Winstrol, an injectable version is available, and when     we compare the oral and injectable versions of Winstrol and their effects in     your body, I think there???s some surprising differences. The injectable is (naturally)     put right into your bloodstream and only undergoes the far less extensive second     pass metabolism, while the oral must endure the gut and liver on it???s first     pass before ending up in circulation.
> 
> Now, here???s the interesting     part: When you inject Winstrol, instead of taking it orally, you actually get     more nitrogen retention (4) (and hence we can infer, more new muscle tissue     is being built). SO if you are trying to use Winstrol to build new muscle tissue,     the injectable version is going to be far superior to the Oral version. However,     there are some advantages that the oral version has over the injectable, including     a possible ???synergy??? with other drugs- but only (primarily) when taken orally.
> While in the liver,     on it???s first pass, Winstrol is exposed to a variety of enzymes and proteins.     To understand how a possible synergy between Winstrol and other steroids may     be possible, a little background on Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) is first     necessary. For our purposes here, all we need to know is that SHBG is a glycoprotein     produced in the liver, which binds to testosterone and makes it biologically     unavailable to do all the things we want it to do- like building muscle. It     serves to transport testosterone throughout the body, but while it remains bound     to testosterone, the testosterone can not exert it???s anabolic effects.     ​
> ...


 

Nice post.


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## SloppyJ (Dec 23, 2010)

Im going oral.


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## XYZ (Dec 23, 2010)

BigBird said:


> One place I just found the nitrogen retention reference is at website below. I'm curious to see if I can find it stated elswhere too.
> 
> Winstrol-Stanozolol
> 
> ...


 
Those two sites are questionable at best.  The one even states that they are the same thing.

Bottom line:  They both pass through the liver and both are toxic.


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## GMO (Dec 23, 2010)

CT said:


> WTF????  COME ON YOU GUYS.
> 
> Half of you have no idea.  You can drink the injectable, and there is *ZERO* difference between the solid tabs and the injectable liquid....*NONE*.



Yep...this is absolutely true, and I personally never had too much pain from injecting winny.


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## cutright (Dec 23, 2010)

Thanks for everyones input...you guys know your stuff..keep posting cause I'm taking notes lol.


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## World-Pharma.org (Dec 23, 2010)

I read one time tabs are great, even better then inject.


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## Crank (Dec 23, 2010)

World-Pharma.org said:


> I read one time tabs are great, even better then inject.



now ur just starting trouble lmao


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## BigBird (Dec 24, 2010)

CT said:


> Those two sites are questionable at best. The one even states that they are the same thing.
> 
> Bottom line: They both pass through the liver and both are toxic.


 
CT, I agree they are both liver toxic, just one more than the other.  I've seen winny injected EOD with same results as ED.  Therefore I don't see an advantage of injecting ED if not necessary.  I read the depot's "active life" is 48 hours as compared to 9 hour half life on the orals.  I know I've read this elsewhere in magazine articles but I don't have any additional sources to post at the moment.


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## tjsulli (Dec 24, 2010)

CT said:


> The inject able form is not (usually 99.9% of the time) suspended in oil. It's a water base which is soluble via oral administration, thus you can drink it or inject it.


its  not that its water based it because both the inject able and orals are 17AA


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## cutright (Dec 24, 2010)

BigBird said:


> CT, I agree they are both liver toxic, just one more than the other.  I've seen winny injected EOD with same results as ED.  Therefore I don't see an advantage of injecting ED if not necessary.  I read the depot's "active life" is 48 hours as compared to 9 hour half life on the orals.  I know I've read this elsewhere in magazine articles but I don't have any additional sources to post at the moment.



So if you inject 50mg eod or you take 50mg oral every day..are you getting the same result?


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