# What Everyone needs to know about UGL's!!!



## Mike Arnold (Nov 19, 2013)

*How many UGL's can prove their Gear is Legitimate?
*







​Despite repeated warnings regarding the reliability of blackmarket steroids, many of us continue to use them with regularity.  The reason is quite simple.  In many cases there simply isn't a better alternative.  The reality is that many of today's most popular steroids can only be obtained through underground channels, forcing us to play an ongoing the guessing game.  Smart buyers stay ahead of the curve by gravitating towards labs with good reputations, paying attention to customer feedback, and evaluating bloodwork results of themselves and others. 

However, despite our best efforts, many of us end up getting screwed...and sometimes we don't even know it! Is the product properly dosed, how pure is the material, and does the product even contain the steroid listed on the label?   These are just some of the questions we need to ask ourselves as we navigate the UGL market and every day, 1000's of unsuspecting customers end up on the short end of the stick.  In fact, this problem has becomes so widespread that it has reached epidemic proportions.  Sometimes the blame can be laid at the feet of unscrupulous company owners, who knowingly sell bunk, under-dosed, or counterfeit products.  Unfortunately, the problem goes much deeper than that.  In order for us to increase our chances of getting the best gear possible, we must learn where the problem originates, as this will provide us with the information necessary for overcoming the problem.  

We need to start at the beginning; the raw material supplier. UGL's don't produce their own steroid hormones.  They purchase various hormones from overseas manufacturers, which are later made into finished products and sold to the customer.  If the raw material is bad, then entire product is bad. There is no getting around this sample fact.   Low quality, fake, or bogus hormones= low quality, fake, or bogus UGL products.   Of course, all of these suppliers claim their hormones are great quality...usually 99% pure, but as any honest UGL will tell you, this claim is 100% bullshit.  The amount of junk raws being exported from these countries and placed in the hands of UGL's is troubling.  The good news is that we are not without hope.  There is one...and ONLY one way for a UGL to accurately assess product purity & potency.  After acquiring the raw materials, they must spend their own money having these raw materials subjected to an expensive and high-tech testing process known as mass spectrometry testing...or mass spec, for short.  

Mass spec testing is the definitive, gold-standard test for ascertaining the quality of any steroid product.  When a steroid passes this test with flying colors, you can rest easy knowing that the product not only contains the correct steroid, but that it is properly dosed and of a high purity level.  In other words, you are getting exactly what you pay for---a guarantee seldom offered in the UGL world.  If you use blackmarket steroids, you need to  understand how valuable this type of testing is.  It provides an indisputable assurance that cannot be replicated by any other testing method. User experience, bloodwork, and personal trust means nothing when compared against a single mass spec test result.  

This is the same type of testing used by pharmaceutical companies when attempting to determine whether or not a batch of drugs they have produced meets the highest of standards.  If pharm companies don't rely on user bloodwork, personal trust, and customer feedback to determine quality, then why should you do so when deciding which steroids to buy?  Could you imagine a pharmaceutical company foregoing standard lab testing in favor of sending out un-tested samples to potential customers...and then asking them to provide their opinion on its quality?  Like hell they would.  Again, I must ask you, if there are UGLs selling products with irrefutable mass spec test results at competitive prices, why would you decide to buy through a source which doesn't offer this type of product testing?

Now, I am not undermining the value of bloodwork.  This is a cheap way for a UGL to show its customers how potent a particular product is, even if it is only a rough estimate.  However, it does NOT always tell us what steroid is in the product (or its purity level). This means you might be using a product labeled as test prop, but it may actually be test cyp, yet the bloodwork results could still be good.  Overall, bloodwork is a useful tool, as it provides the potential customer with first-hand experience regarding a product's effectiveness.  This can be helpful in winning over customers whom are not thoroughly familiar with what mass spec testing is or what it means.  

It is not uncommon to hear some UGLs talk about mass spec testing.  They will say how such and suchproduct was subjected to mass spec testing and passed with flying colors, but if this were so, then why are so few UGLs publically posting these results?  What possible advantage is there in keeping this evidence from their customers and telling them "Just trust us"?   If they truly do possess this type of conclusive proof, why not proudly reveal it to everyone?  To my knowledge, no UGL was ever harmed by posting a mass spec test result. However, I can tell you that those who do benefit enormously.

For you guys who like to use stuff like Primo, Anavar, Halotestin, etc, mass spec testing is almost mandatory. These steroids are faked so frequently that you are almost guaranteed to get ripped off without it.  I estimatet that less than 10% of the steroids on the market bearing these names contain the proper steroid and are dosed within an acceptable range.  The bottom line is that if your UGL does not offer this type of product testing, then you are taking a crapshoot with your money every time you place an order.  I want to make it clear that I am not undermining the integrity or ethics of any UGL.  Rather, I am simply stating the facts.  A UGL owner could have the greatest morals inthe world, but if he/she doesn't subject his raws to testing, he/she is taking a guess just like you.   Many UGLs which can't afford to use mass spec testing will attempt to determine quality by using a melting point test.  Basically, a melting point test is a crude method of determining steroid type and purity by checking to see at what temperaturethe raw material begins to melt.  If the steroid material begins to melt at the right temp, it likely contains the correct material...and anything that does not melt is deemed an impurity and removed.  None the less, there are a few problems with this type of testing.  For one, the individual doing the testing must be highly skilled in order to be able to properly conduct a melting point test on all types of AAS.  Two, some compounds within the material may melt at the same point as the target steroid, deceiving the tester as to the product's purity & potency (this can be an intentional act of the supplier, in order to increase profit).  Three, it is less accurate than mass spec testing in every way. Four, there is NO way for the UGL to prove to the customer that melting point tests were conducted and that the product received a passing grade.

As some of you may know, I was recently worked for another UGL, but after deciding to part ways, I knew that the next UGL I worked for would need to demonstrate the highest quality control measures before I would consider coming on board.  Things such as trust, word of mouth, and user bloodwork alone weren't good enough for me.  When I make a recommendation, I want to know that I am recommending the highest quality products possible.  Fortunately, after some in-depth research and trusted referrals, I came upon Big D Pharma, a new sponsor on this board.  

Here is what you can expect from Big D:  1) Publically posted mass spec test results for all of his AAS, which have achieved the highest purity ratings.  2) 1,000's of user bloodwork results (yes, 1,000's).  3) Great customer service.  4) Speedy delivery times.   No one else provides greater assurance of product quality...no one.  You can see for yourself in the link below?



http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/big-d-pharma/189373-mass-spectrometry-results.html​
Home page
​


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## s2h (Nov 19, 2013)

Its truly a gamble....if you really think about it the vast majority of black market users don't know what there taking...only that it works or doesn't...


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## theCaptn' (Nov 19, 2013)

I love a Mike Arnold essay!


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## plazmic (Nov 19, 2013)

Solid perspective. Despite good intentions, labs need to put-up or shut-up when it comes to getting their product tested via mass spectrometry. I hear claims all the time, but I've never seen a list as comprehensive as BigD's.


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## rage racing (Nov 19, 2013)

I for one appreciate the testing that BigD does on his gear and can only take his word that the results are true. Fact of the matter is I have used many UGLs over the years. Some have been good and some not so good. I always get bloods done for my own piece of mind, but bloods will only tell a piece of the story. I had some bloods come back pretty low a couple years back while using another UGLs test (NOT BIG D). The lab was notified and they sent me some new gear. Well that gear is still sitting in my closet untouched. Once I find a good lab I stick with them til quality starts to suffer. I started using BigD a couple years back. Instantly I knew something was different. I was getting better test results with less gear and I was growing more then before. For a while I thought PIP was just part of the game and I would have to deal with it...not with D's gear. Basically my opinion is if the mass spec results come back good then thats just a bonus. As long as I keep getting bigger and stronger and my labs come back where they should Im a happy camper and a loyal customer.


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## SuperLift (Nov 19, 2013)

Will definitely be checking that out. If mike says its good, it's good


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## s2h (Nov 19, 2013)

its probably not realistic every ugl will get mass specs for one reason or another...the saying was if you find a good one stick with it...i'm just not sure everybody knows what good is??

nice to see bigD putting up the data...it speaks well for there business.....


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## VictorZ06 (Nov 19, 2013)

Been using BigD for many many years, I don't go elsewhere.





/V


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## independent (Nov 19, 2013)

Not trying to bash bigd but how can we confirm those mass specs are even real? We have to be realistic about this whole game. Just because someone posts something up doesnt make it fact.


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## Grozny (Nov 19, 2013)

some of my older post concerning this subject: 

*Good or Bad UG's, what is difference ??*


Now there is no any differences with good or bad UG labs, u just only paid an extra for the fancy packaging box and label  , main needs is based on the aesthetically pleasing design and that's all but the quality of the injected solution it's s same.

... since the aseptic processes to produce pharmaceuticals are failed by ALL UGL (maybe 1% of all UGL work respecting the aseptic principles while the rest do basic errors like washing vials with Ethanol or have no aseptic facilities at all), It doesn't matter if some UGL "chemists" have some knowledge of "brewing" and try to respect some quality standards or other UGL "chemist" has no idea on "brewing", differences are not important. Both will produce not sterile vials. If a UGL produces in ISO 9 and washes vials or other UGL doesn't wash the vials at all, practically doesn't make a big difference. Both are highly non sterile.

*In Pharmacy there is no "decent" product or "good" product. There is only Sterile or Not Sterile => UG is an UG.*


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## World-Pharma.org (Nov 19, 2013)

*my suggest buy human gear,pay Little more and be happy always and not worry at all!*


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## OfficerFarva (Nov 19, 2013)

World-Pharma.org said:


> *my suggest buy human gear,pay Little more and be happy always and not worry at all!*




Unless it comes from the pharmacy how do you know it's human grade?   I've seen fake replicas for sale from sponsors in the past.  At least with these mass spec results it offers some assurance that the gear really is what it's labelled to be.


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## JerseyDevil (Nov 19, 2013)

bigmoe65 said:


> Not trying to bash bigd but how can we confirm those mass specs are even real? We have to be realistic about this whole game. Just because someone posts something up doesnt make it fact.


My thoughts as well.  Some UGL's claim to have mass spec verification and do not post because it's possible to trace those back to the testing lab.  All of BigD's posted results are commendable but there is no guarantee they are real.  Not saying they are or aren't but they could just be cut and pasted from other results.  I don't see what this really proves.  We still have to take their word for it either way.



World-Pharma.org said:


> *my suggest buy human gear,pay Little more and be happy always and not worry at all!*


This is true except for all the human grade fakes floating around out there.


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## jrock00123 (Nov 19, 2013)

Mike Arnold said:


> However, it does NOT tell us what steroid is actually in the product (or its purity level), as all steroids will show elevated levels of testosterone with bloodwork.  This means you could be using a product which contains a completely different steroid than what the label claims, yet the bloodwork results could still be good. .​


​Not sure that this part is true.  I believe testosterone is the only compound that should show up as test.  Not sure what analytically methods are used in the blood test, but other steroids will have a different molecular weight. But then again who knows.  Maybe there are false positives.


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## rage racing (Nov 19, 2013)

World-Pharma.org said:


> *my suggest buy human gear,pay Little more and be happy always and not worry at all!*


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## World-Pharma.org (Nov 19, 2013)

OfficerFarva said:


> Unless it comes from the pharmacy how do you know it's human grade?   I've seen fake replicas for sale from sponsors in the past.  At least with these mass spec results it offers some assurance that the gear really is what it's labelled to be.



*all my prods i stock come direct from pharmacys! i use my license to buy and stock it legal in my country!*


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## World-Pharma.org (Nov 19, 2013)

JerseyDevil said:


> This is true except for all the human grade fakes floating around out there.




*PROBLEMS ARE also customers who want cheap and they know they buy copy-replica...so they got what they pay! in bulgaria you can get omnadren 1$ amp, sustanon 1$ amps.organon-norma deca 1$ amp..desma-zambon winstrolm 1$ amp,primbolan depot 1$ ...etc...a lot of sources sale that since they sale it on shops 4-6$ each * *THEY MAKE FANTASTIC PROFIT! MORE THEN ME AND OTHER WHO SALE AMPS 12-15$ REAL HUMAN!*


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## rage racing (Nov 19, 2013)

World-Pharma.org said:


> *all my prods i stock come direct from pharmacys! i use my license to buy and stock it legal in my country!*


We only know what you tell us bro. Only way I know if its real HG gear is when I pick it up from the phamacy myself. Not sayin the gear you sell is not good but I dont trust any HG gear.


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## World-Pharma.org (Nov 19, 2013)

rage racing said:


> We only know what you tell us bro. Only way I know if its real HG gear is when I pick it up from the phamacy myself. Not sayin the gear you sell is not good but I dont trust any HG gear.



big true!
everybody can know only when you buy in pharamcy!

*BUT can i tell you story you can go in Greece, Turkey,Egypt pharmacy and they will there sale you copy-fake gear!??? i am sure a lot of Europe guys can say YES true!  even in pharmacy if you dont know what you buy!*


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## Valkyrie (Nov 19, 2013)

Mass Spec Printouts are not posted because it is dangerous to the provider of the spec testing.  

I think the best way to stay safe is to be careful and look for the recommend from vets and mods that you personally trust.  Guys that have been in this game long enough KNOW what real var (tren, anadrol, etc.) feels like. They dont need a spec test to tell you if what a source sent them is real var or not.

Nomsayin?


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## hypo_glycemic (Nov 19, 2013)




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## s2h (Nov 19, 2013)

jrock00123 said:


> [/CENTER]
> [/CENTER]
> Not sure that this part is true.  I believe testosterone is the only compound that should show up as test.  Not sure what analytically methods are used in the blood test, but other steroids will have a different molecular weight. But then again who knows.  Maybe there are false positives.



i think he means it could be labeled as sustanon and be prop etc..


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## JerseyDevil (Nov 19, 2013)

My favorite private source lab does mass spec testing on all of their raws.  I personally trust this lab for numerous reasons, and the people who are doing the testing. So I really don't need to see the result.  I have never seen one complaint about any of their products across several boards (well except for one guy who won free shit and proclaimed after one day the product was nothing but oil ).     How many UGL's do you know that can say the same?  Hell, even pharma companies put out underdosed gear on occassion (Bayer Primo-e comes to mind)

I also know of a lab that posted mass spec results who got booted off of TWO boards for selective scamming. Just sayin'.


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## heavyiron (Nov 19, 2013)

Currently I use 2 sources for my testosterone. A USA pharmacy with my script and AgentYes. They are both 100% legit for sure.

Never used Big D but I have heard really good things.


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## Valkyrie (Nov 19, 2013)

To be called human grade it better be well over 95% pure.


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## HFO3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Agentyes T400 and Pfizer is the way to go everytime.


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## OfficerFarva (Nov 19, 2013)

Edited for accuracy.



HFO3 said:


> Big D and Agentyes T400 and Pfizer is the way to go everytime.


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## Presser (Nov 19, 2013)

How long has Big D been a sponsor on this board?


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## OfficerFarva (Nov 19, 2013)

Presser said:


> How long has Big D been a sponsor on this board?



A month.  He's been around for quite a while now though.


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## Presser (Nov 19, 2013)

OfficerFarva said:


> A month.  He's been around for quite a while now though.



Thanks for the reply. How about some other boards? You can pm me if that isn't ok the post openly.


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## Bout2getReal (Nov 19, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> To be called human grade it better be well over 95% pure.



Last mass spec from a member that decided to do it on his own on AMA came back at 98 %


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## Bout2getReal (Nov 19, 2013)

And that was before the upgrades.


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## OfficerFarva (Nov 19, 2013)

Presser said:


> Thanks for the reply. How about some other boards? You can pm me if that isn't ok the post openly.



IDk, what does it matter?  He was private for a long time then went public.


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## Presser (Nov 19, 2013)

OfficerFarva said:


> IDk, what does it matter?



Umm, gee, maybe someone might want to read comments on another board with some type of lengthy history behind them.


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## Mike Arnold (Nov 19, 2013)

World-Pharma.org said:


> *my suggest buy human gear,pay Little more and be happy always and not worry at all!*



WP gear speaks for itself.


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## Bout2getReal (Nov 19, 2013)

Yes it say all good for all too see. The best all know and it comes with fortune cookies. Fuck yesss!!! who doesn't love fortune cookies. Mine said I was a dick. It was so on the money


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## Mike Arnold (Nov 19, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> Mass Spec Printouts are not posted because it is dangerous to the provider of the spec testing.
> 
> I think the best way to stay safe is to be careful and look for the recommend from vets and mods that you personally trust.  Guys that have been in this game long enough KNOW what real var (tren, anadrol, etc.) feels like. They dont need a spec test to tell you if what a source sent them is real var or not.
> 
> Nomsayin?



Companies like your own have a great rep, so there is less concern, but the problem is that a lot of guys don't know what to look for...and even very experienced guys are EASILY duped concerning potency, especially when using multiple steroids at a time.  Very few steroid user run only one steroid at a time, especially vets.  It is nearly impossible for a steroid user, regardlss of experience, to know if a particular product is dosed accurately when using 2, 3, 4, or more steroids at a time.  

Someone could be using Test, EQ, Mast, and Anadrol for their cycle...and both the EQ and Mast could be dosed at 50% or less...and most users would not have a clue.  In fact, MOST people would not even know if one or more of the steroids were completely bunk!!!  How is someone running those 4 steroids going to know if their EQ is dosed at 90% or 30%?  In 99.99% of the cases, even if the person is highly experienced, they're not, especially when running multiple steroids that provide many of the same effects.  It's not like someone could say "Ahhh, my vascularity is not coming in as well...the EQ must be under-dosed"...or "My appetite is not what it should be...the EQ is under-dosed"....or "My pumps aren't that great...the EQ must be under-dosed".  Aside from the unreliability of using these effects as barometer of legitimacy, there are dozen other variables which can effect those areas when using multiple steroids at once.  Most of the effects users look for when attempting to ascertain legitimacy are provided by numerous steroids, making it exceedingly difficult to pinpoint problems with specific products--in most cases. 

Therefore, while most vets could tell if their Var was bunk or significantly under-dosed when running it alone, most wouldn't have a freakin' clue once they add in some Winstrol, Primo, EQ, and Testosterone.  It's the same way with many steroids pther steroids. Hell, a lot of steroid users can't even tell when a steroid is properly dosed when running it all by itself.  How many times have we seen someone complain about products which are completely good, simply because they though the product was supposed to provide effects other than what they experienced?  Many, many times.  Our ability to accurately discern dosing issues, even among adanced vets, is dramatically reduced when running multiple steroids at once, especially when using mutiple steroids at the same time which provide many of the same effects.


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## Mike Arnold (Nov 19, 2013)

s2h said:


> i think he means it could be labeled as sustanon and be prop etc..



Correct.  Will clarify.


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## Bout2getReal (Nov 19, 2013)

Another thing members should do is find someone to test the products they buy. Buy a small amount if you are unfamiliar or unsure of the source. Too many sponsors pay off big names and the members buy off on their endorsement. Its not a fact thats liked around here but it is a reality. If a member they has been here forever says they test and never show proof that should make you think twice. Not saying that individuals like these are lying but you should be cautious. As I've said before the best person to trust is yourself. Not a mod not a rep not me. We all work hard to build trust but you guys would be surprised what money a greed does to folks. So when your talking about something your putting in your body and you want to be sure. Find someone to test and have that someone be a person that is trustworthy and shows you the results. But hey what do I know.


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## Mike Arnold (Nov 19, 2013)

ThePitCrew said:


> Yes it say all good for all too see. The best all know and it comes with fortune cookies. Fuck yesss!!! who doesn't love fortune cookies. Mine said I was a dick. It was so on the money


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## theCaptn' (Nov 20, 2013)

If you run DRSEGE gears you can be assured the placebo effect is doing all the work


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## jay_steel (Nov 20, 2013)

I have tried many UGL's over the course of a few years and some of them at the doses I was running the calm of being a top notch provider with a beautiful site got me shitty to no gains. There are a few sources I get my stuff from, not going to say I only get Crimson because then I would be a liar, but the stuff he does have is incredible. The only problem is it flys off the shelf FAST. stand buy guys the list should be out soon...

as for human grade gear i dont think my wallet could support that.. I know my bodys reaction to what i take. When I take tren, I can actually taste it when i inject it and get a cough, night sweats. Test shows up on my BL. NPP makes my joints feel great with no water. Var gives me acid reflux bad at 100mg


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## Mike Arnold (Nov 20, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> I have tried many UGL's over the course of a few years and some of them at the doses I was running the calm of being a top notch provider with a beautiful site got me shitty to no gains. There are a few sources I get my stuff from, not going to say I only get Crimson because then I would be a liar, but the stuff he does have is incredible. The only problem is it flys off the shelf FAST. stand buy guys the list should be out soon...
> 
> as for human grade gear i dont think my wallet could support that.. I know my bodys reaction to what i take. When I take tren, I can actually taste it when i inject it and get a cough, night sweats. Test shows up on my BL. NPP makes my joints feel great with no water. Var gives me acid reflux bad at 100mg



You said something that bears repeating, which is that basically every UGL is going to claim to have top-notch, 100% legit gear.  Has anyone ever encountered a UGL which told its customers "Some of my gear is good, but sometimes its not...its frequently under-dosed to one degree or another...and purity levels are all over the place, but buy from me!"  NO.  No UGL ever says that, but you can bet your ass it is true for many.  Not a single one will EVER admit they sell even a single product that isn't up to par in any way.  Everything is always 100% legit.  

As far as sales go, chances are that if you catch a UGL selling fakes, they are going to demonstrate the same ethics and integrity in other areas of their business.  Selling fakes is as shitty as it gets and speaks volumes about the character of a UGL owner(s).  Anyone who claims a product is HG, yet fills the amps/vials with their own UGL gear and then charges the customer 2-4X as much, is ripping their customers off in the worst way.  That signifies a bottom of the fucking barrell low-life scum.  In my opinion, that is just as bad as knowingly selling bunk gear, which happens all the time as well.  As you can see, I am a little upset with the workings of some UGL's, especially when they make decisions that result in the customer throwing away his hard-earned money.

Fortunately, we have some very good UGL's on this board.  I have heard (and in some cases experienced) great things about all the companies that posted in this thread (WP, AY, AMA)...and you can bet your ass they came into this thread because they did not want to have anyone think this OP applied to them.  Of course, I have respect for all of these companies...and some of them know that.  Obviously, I put up this thread so that people's gaze might be directed to Big D, but I never would have done so if he did not have strong evidence and a strong customer base to back up his claims.  

Guys, we can never be 100% sure about everything a UGL does.  The best we can do when trying to assess the quality of a UGLs products is look at the 3 most likely indicators of product quality, such as mass spec tests, customer feedback, and bloodwork.  Like with anything in life, the more signs there are which point in the direction of product quality, the more likely the product is to be high quality.  In the same way, the less signs there are which point in the direction of product quality, the less likely the product is to be high quality.  This is common sense.  Could Big D have posted up a bunch of out-dated or bogus mass spec test results?  Sure.  Could have have forged 1000's (yes, 1000's) of bogus bloodwork results?  I suppose so.  Could have have made up a bunch of gimmick accounts and spent months posting fake postive product reviews.  Yep, that is possible too.  Could he have paid off all the board members here and elsewhere to say how great his stuff is?  Yep, that is possible too.  But...is this likely?  If so, Big D is the biggest con man in the UGL business.  Or...is it more likely that all these things are lining up simply because they're true?  Even an irrational person would agree that the odds are greatly in favor of this being legitimate evidence.


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## Presser (Nov 20, 2013)

Mike Arnold said:


> The best we can do when trying to assess the quality of a UGLs products is look at the 3 most likely indicators of product quality, such as mass spec tests, customer feedback, and bloodwork.



Where is the customer feedback for Big D?


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## Valkyrie (Nov 20, 2013)

OfficerFarva said:


> Edited for accuracy.





lolwut?


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## OfficerFarva (Nov 20, 2013)

Presser said:


> Where is the customer feedback for Big D?



Other boards.  Try using google.


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## Valkyrie (Nov 20, 2013)

OfficerFarva said:


> Other boards.  Try using google.



BOP, IJ, 
I know how to google.  Other boards? Really?
okay.jpg


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## VictorZ06 (Nov 20, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> BOP, IJ,
> I know how to google.  Other boards? Really?
> okay.jpg



If you think eroids holds any water, some do and some don't..... Big D Pharma reviews. Is Big D Pharma scam, fake or legit Lab? .

BOP: I was a mod there, board kept getting hacked....it's crap and unsafe to visit.
IJ:  I was the admin there, closed it once I found the person I was working with was a pervert.

BigD has nothing to do with those boards anymore.


/V


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## Valkyrie (Nov 20, 2013)

VictorZ06 said:


> If you think eroids holds any water, some do and some don't..... Big D Pharma reviews. Is Big D Pharma scam, fake or legit Lab? .
> 
> BOP: I was a mod there, board kept getting hacked....it's crap and unsafe to visit.
> IJ:  I was the admin there, closed it once I found the person I was working with was a pervert.
> ...



cool,
that was directed more at the suggestion that I don't know how to google than anything else.
I can google so hard.


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## Vision (Nov 20, 2013)

What it comes down to is trusting and knowing your source at the end of the day... Bad gear will get bad reviews, and it's something that you can't just hide... period!


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## OfficerFarva (Nov 20, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> cool,
> that was directed more at the suggestion that I don't know how to google than anything else.
> I can google so hard.




I don't know what your problem is today, but I never said you can't google.  Reread the thread and lighten up already.


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## 1HungLo (Nov 20, 2013)

Presser said:


> Umm, gee, maybe someone might want to read comments on another board with some type of lengthy history behind them.



Hell man just ask Big Vic, he's been around since the beginning of time and he will vouch for BigD. I believe BigD is good to go.


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## JerseyDevil (Nov 20, 2013)

VictorZ06 said:


> BOP: I was a mod there, board kept getting hacked....it's crap and unsafe to visit.
> IJ:  I was the admin there, closed it once I found the person I was working with was a pervert.
> 
> BigD has nothing to do with those boards anymore.
> ...


Because, the word on the street is they, meaning BigD were booted off both for selective scamming...... Sounds like some really high quality forums.  The kiddie porn guy?  Don't get me started.  Makes me fucking sick to my stomach.


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## JerseyDevil (Nov 20, 2013)

Vision said:


> What it comes down to is trusting and knowing your source at the end of the day... Bad gear will get bad reviews, and it's something that you can't just hide... period!


Word!  Just look at reputation..... Vision is right.  In the long run that's what counts.  It's tough for the new guys for sure.  Cry me a river.  Provide a quality product, great customer service, and if a customer has issue with your product, assume THEY are right rather then putting the burden of proof on them..... Easier said then done, but good labs do exactly that.


----------



## OfficerFarva (Nov 20, 2013)

JerseyDevil said:


> Because, the word on the street is they, meaning BigD were booted off both for selective scamming...... Sounds like some really high quality forums.  The kiddie porn guy?  Don't get me started.  Makes me fucking sick to my stomach.




It wasn't Big D, it was his reps.  Some things you just can't control.  You'd have to be retarded to give your money to a rep anyways.  He fixed whatever issues there were even though it wasn't his fault.


----------



## Valkyrie (Nov 20, 2013)

OfficerFarva said:


> I don't know what your problem is today, but I never said you can't google.  Reread the thread and lighten up already.



Sorry bro. I didn't mean to be bitchy to you.

This shit makes me fucking nervous.
I don't like to see "domestic" posted let alone in banners.  There is a reason that word is not supposed to be used on the forums.  I also don't like to see spec tests posted.  The Feds HATE Printed spec reports. Hate.  THAT is why they're not posted publicly on the open web. I'm sorry, I think its reckless and is guaranteed to draw unwanted attention and it makes me nervous as hell.

I'm going to bow out of this convo now.


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## Vision (Nov 20, 2013)

JerseyDevil said:


> Word!  Just look at reputation..... Vision is right.  In the long run that's what counts.  It's tough for the new guys for sure.  Cry me a river.  Provide a quality product, great customer service, and if a customer has issue with your product, assume THEY are right rather then putting the burden of proof on them..... Easier said then done, but good labs do exactly that.


 exactly.. and thank you for making this more clear.. What this market comes down to is the fact of knowing and trusting the lab of your choice..The market speaks volumes when it projects labs and there reviews...If the market was cleansed of all UGL's, could everyone afford the price that's provided by HG venders? The market has more fakes of HG over UGL's, and there would be just be an other obstacles to over come. (( are my amps real)).. How many post have we seen of these over the past decade?  Not all UGLs get their raws from the same out sources.. Thus, this defines that not all UGL's are deemed equal..
Is HG the way? Of course, it sets the bench mark and for the standards in which some UGL's thrive to meet.. That's why some UGL's have implemented quality control over their products.. Not all UGL are manufactured under similar conditions to the next....


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## kamiwazi (Nov 21, 2013)

Good to know. way too much bullshit out on the market!


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## s2h (Nov 21, 2013)

heavyiron said:


> Currently I use 2 sources for my testosterone. A USA pharmacy with my script and AgentYes. They are both 100% legit for sure.
> 
> Never used Big D but I have heard really good things.



Great minds think alike...


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## Mike Arnold (Nov 21, 2013)

JerseyDevil said:


> Word!  Just look at reputation..... Vision is right.  In the long run that's what counts.  It's tough for the new guys for sure.  Cry me a river.  Provide a quality product, great customer service, and *if a customer has issue with your product, assume THEY are right rather then putting the burden of proof on them.*.... Easier said then done, but good labs do exactly that.



See bold above:  How very true.  Even if the UGL thinks the customer is wrong, it does NOT matter.  What scenario is better--re-sending an order and losing a few dollars?  Or, tell the customer they are wrong, save a few bucks in the short-term, have the customer start pubically bashing the shit out of you, and lose more potential business in the long-run?  Controlling customer complaints before they turn into raging fires is part of any business...at least any decent business that doesn't have its head up its ass.  The last thing any UGL should want are negative, out of control public threads, which result in people questioning the company's integrity.  

Of course, I am not suggesting that a UGL should just re-send every order regardless of the nature of the complaint, but by and large, if the customer appears to have a legitimate complaint, especially if they are previous customers, they should be accomodated.  It amazes me that some people don't seem to understand this and allow preventable customer service issues to spiral out of control.


----------



## Mike Arnold (Nov 21, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> Sorry bro. I didn't mean to be bitchy to you.
> 
> This shit makes me fucking nervous.
> I don't like to see "domestic" posted let alone in banners.  There is a reason that word is not supposed to be used on the forums.  I also don't like to see spec tests posted.  The Feds HATE Printed spec reports. Hate.  THAT is why they're not posted publicly on the open web. I'm sorry, I think its reckless and is guaranteed to draw unwanted attention and it makes me nervous as hell.
> ...



Really?  I think they hate UGLs in general (and everyone involved in unregulated drug trade, for that matter), and regardless of spec tests, would gladly put an end to any UGL they could.  I don't have any opinion on the use of the word "domestic"--honestly never thought about it, but it seems unrealistic to think that the use of the word "domestic"...or posting spec results...would make the Gov. any more or less likely to want to try and put a stop to this stuff.  I could be wrong, but that's just how I see it.  

Now, if I saw some statistics showing that a greater percentage of UGLs which displayed mass spec results and/or used the word "domestic" have been busted or investigated, then I could understand the fear, but it seems to me that the Gov. just wants to make busts, regardless of whether the gear was validated by spec results or not.  Besides, just because a UGL avoids posting spec sheets and using the word domestic, its not like they're fooling anyone because every UGL here publically admits to selling gear!!!  That's is proof enough, don't you think?  Evey UGL has their own forum, advertisements, multiple reps talking about how great the gear was, as well as customer saying the same.  Unless a Federal Agent was retarded, I don't see how posting results or using the word dometic is any more of a give away than what is already being publically proclaimed. 

To me, this argument sounds just like the peptide companies who think they're protecting themselves by avoiding making public recommendations for their products, as if denying that their products are for human use will somehow help them escape legal repercussions if the shit ever hits the fan.  In reality, it isn't going to make a damn bit of difference because not a single judge or jury would ever believe those proucts weren't for human use.  To me, thinking that UGLs which avoid posting spec sheets and using the word domestic are somehow more protected than those which don't just seems silly in light of the available evidence.  

Being that you're directly involved, perhaps you could provide a reason for this belief...or some type of evidence to uphold your statements?  You said flat-out it bothers you and you find it wreckless.  If so, please explain why.  If you don't want to continue posting in this thread, you could PM me if you like. Personally, I am grateful these spec sheets exist (as are many others) and was one of the main reasons I contacted Big D.  It is a huge benefit to the customers, while provdong no additional risk to them.  Any risk that may be present is on the UGL.  Now, you might not like it, but there is NO denying that this is helpful to the people that buy gear.  In addition, not a single argument I presented in my previous post, which was a direct response to your post, was addressed or even acknowledged.  I have to wonder why not.  I made some pretty valid points in that post--and no steroid user who is being honest with himself could deny several of them.  The fact is we can NOT always know if a product is good or properly dosed, especially when using multiple other steroids at the same time, no matter how "experienced" someone might be.   If you have been in this position, you would know this to be the case.  As a  woman, perhaps you run only 1-2 compounds at a time...and limit yourself only to certain steroids, but for most men, this is not the case.  Being able to discern whether all steroids are properly dosed when running several steroids at once often becomes exceedingly difficult and in many cases impossible. I could point out DOZENS of scenarios in which it would be virtually IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish between proplery dosed and under-dosed gear.  Mass spec results offer a level of assuarance that can't be found anywhere else and that's not an opinion, it is a fact.  Now, you may not want to post your spec sheets and that's fine, but at this time, Big D does...and I think many people are and will be grateful for it.


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## jrock00123 (Nov 21, 2013)

Those that are familiar with the pro-hormone world may remember Primordial Performance.  Great company that made safe DHEA based hormones as well as other supplements.  Anyway, although there were and still are many companies selling much more harmful otc steroids, this company was raided.  At the end of the day it came down to there marketing.  Their packaging and advertised stated direct comparisons and theoretical conversion rates to testosterone.  The feds simply did not like being openly mocked.

So although I hear what Mike is saying and he does have a valid point, I have to agree with AgentYes in that it may be better to simply keep a low profile.  Seeing users scream TD and post pics every time they receive stuff seems foolish.  As a community we should do a better job in keeping things at least somewhat hush.


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## Mike Arnold (Nov 21, 2013)

jrock00123 said:


> Those that are familiar with the pro-hormone world may remember Primordial Performance.  Great company that made safe DHEA based hormones as well as other supplements.  Anyway, although there were and still are many companies selling much more harmful otc steroids, this company was raided.  At the end of the day it came down to there marketing.  Their packaging and advertised stated direct comparisons and theoretical conversion rates to testosterone.  The feds simply did not like being openly mocked.
> 
> So although I hear what Mike is saying and he does have a valid point, I have to agree with AgentYes in that it may be better to simply keep a low profile.  Seeing users scream TD and post pics every time they receive stuff seems foolish.  As a community we should do a better job in keeping things at least somewhat hush.



Ohhh, I agree 100% that the less UGLs are publically promoted the safer it will be...there is no doubt about that.  But...the fact is that every UGL here already has their own forum, mutiple reps putting up posts, tons of customers talking about where they bought ther gear and how good it is, and 100 other things, all of which make it VERY obvious that UGLs are regularly selling steroids to the people here.  My point was that posting a spec sheet or using the word "domestic" is not going to change the fact that all the UGLs here are already right out in the open, in broad daylight for any Gov. Agent to see.  Posting spec sheets and using the word "domestic" won't change that.  To infer othewise is like stating we can keep the UGL forums, the reps, regular public communication, etc, but s longh as we remove that mass spex sheet, all will be well.  After all, the Gov. had no idea any of us existed until the banner went up.  Ri-i-i-i-ght.

We also need to remember that if we took all this stuff out of the public eye, most people, especially after some time passed, would have no idea where to buy good gear.  Even with all the public communication we currently have, tons of people still get ripped off every day.  The main reason a lot of guys come on this and other boards is specifically so they CAN find out what is going on.  Entire boards exist for this very reason.  Yes,  we could revert back into the dinosaur days and no one would know shit...or things can stay like they are.  If I had to guess, I would say that most people here PREFER things to stay the way they are...to be able to feerly and easily access the infomation they need to make wise buying decisions.  If the people didn't want things this way, they never would have made it this way.  The people made these boards what they are and many are very grateful for it.  For the most part, people want to remain educated and filled in on what's going on, so they can increase their chances of getting goold gear.  This OP is simply an extension of that desire.  No one wants to be left in the dark.  

You should also remeber that it is easy for a private company to call out for a return to the old days, but that wasn't necessarily their opinion prior to going private. Every opinion expressed by those on this board, especially those with direct involvment, have some type of a bias, which is a direct result of their current situation.


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## SheriV (Nov 21, 2013)

I dont know if this was addressed earlier but will Big D be putting up dated mass specs with every coinciding batch?

there are obv some UGL's that intentionally scam people but there are plenty of instances where an UGL got burned on either their raws or THEIR source in some other fashion and pass along a bunk or underdosed product to their customers...I think the only way to lower that latters incidence would be to test everything that goes through your doors.


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## World-Pharma.org (Nov 21, 2013)

*great posts Mike!*


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## Mike Arnold (Nov 21, 2013)

SheriV said:


> I dont know if this was addressed earlier but will Big D be putting up dated mass specs with every coinciding batch?
> 
> there are obv some UGL's that intentionally scam people but there are plenty of instances where an UGL got burned on either their raws or THEIR source in some other fashion and pass along a bunk or underdosed product to their customers...I think the only way to lower that latters incidence would be to test everything that goes through your doors.



I don't know.  I am going to talk with him about testing frequency soon, so I can more completely familiarize myself with the workings of the company.


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## blergs. (Nov 21, 2013)

Mike Arnold said:


> *How many UGL's can prove their Gear is Legitimate?
> *
> 
> 
> ...



Awesome post!
I also recently stopped supporting a shop I believe was selling fake "replica" HG gear and was starting to have ULG issues... its sad when people dont take care of their shit or the people that built them...

I am going to check out big D, maybe he will be my go to guy some time soon,  time to research!


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## blergs. (Nov 22, 2013)

I am curious, what type of oil do they use for injects??
They seem to have a good line up.


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## J.thom (Nov 22, 2013)

great post Mike!


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## Presser (Nov 22, 2013)

blergs. said:


> I am curious, what type of oil do they use for injects??
> They seem to have a good line up.



^^bump


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## OfficerFarva (Nov 22, 2013)

blergs. said:


> I am curious, what type of oil do they use for injects??
> They seem to have a good line up.



Grape seed.


----------



## Valkyrie (Nov 23, 2013)

Mike Arnold said:


> Ohhh, I agree 100% that the less UGLs are publically promoted the safer it will be...there is no doubt about that.  But...the fact is that every UGL here already has their own forum, mutiple reps putting up posts, tons of customers talking about where they bought ther gear and how good it is, and 100 other things, all of which make it VERY obvious that UGLs are regularly selling steroids to the people here.  My point was that posting a spec sheet or using the word "domestic" is not going to change the fact that all the UGLs here are already right out in the open, in broad daylight for any Gov. Agent to see.  Posting spec sheets and using the word "domestic" won't change that.  To infer othewise is like stating we can keep the UGL forums, the reps, regular public communication, etc, but s longh as we remove that mass spex sheet, all will be well.  After all, the Gov. had no idea any of us existed until the banner went up.  Ri-i-i-i-ght.
> 
> We also need to remember that if we took all this stuff out of the public eye, most people, especially after some time passed, would have no idea where to buy good gear.  Even with all the public communication we currently have, tons of people still get ripped off every day.  The main reason a lot of guys come on this and other boards is specifically so they CAN find out what is going on.  Entire boards exist for this very reason.  Yes,  we could revert back into the dinosaur days and no one would know shit...or things can stay like they are.  If I had to guess, I would say that most people here PREFER things to stay the way they are...to be able to feerly and easily access the infomation they need to make wise buying decisions.  If the people didn't want things this way, they never would have made it this way.  The people made these boards what they are and many are very grateful for it.  For the most part, people want to remain educated and filled in on what's going on, so they can increase their chances of getting goold gear.  This OP is simply an extension of that desire.  No one wants to be left in the dark.
> 
> You should also remeber that it is easy for a private company to call out for a return to the old days, but that wasn't necessarily their opinion prior to going private. Every opinion expressed by those on this board, especially those with direct involvment, have some type of a bias, which is a direct result of their current situation.




Let me aware you on the fact that they bust LABS that have no steroids. Remember the one in cali that would spec for ANYONE? Busted for REPORTS not for scamming.

You dont seem to know much.


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## Valkyrie (Nov 23, 2013)

For example:  mass spectromoter measures wavelengths h.   The reports posted measure mass,  there fore those reports are not from a laws spectromoter. 

Please be fucking careful people.  Just because someone can make something look nice does no mean you should trust it.   Oh and I wouldn't give something 85-90% pure to my DOG.


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## Valkyrie (Nov 23, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> For example:  mass spectromoter measures wavelengths h.   The reports posted measure mass,  there fore those reports are not from a laws spectromoter.
> 
> Please be fucking careful people.  Just because someone can make something look nice does no mean you should trust it.   Oh and I wouldn't give something 85-90% pure to my DOG.



Sorry for the typos.  I have meathead hands. 
That should say


*those reports are not from a mass spetromoter


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## JerseyDevil (Nov 24, 2013)

Mike Arnold said:


> Really? I think they hate UGLs in general (and everyone involved in unregulated drug trade, for that matter), and regardless of spec tests, would gladly put an end to any UGL they could. I don't have any opinion on the use of the word "domestic"--honestly never thought about it, but it seems unrealistic to think that the use of the word "domestic"...or posting spec results...would make the Gov. any more or less likely to want to try and put a stop to this stuff. I could be wrong, but that's just how I see it.
> 
> Now, if I saw some statistics showing that a greater percentage of UGLs which displayed mass spec results and/or used the word "domestic" have been busted or investigated, then I could understand the fear, but it seems to me that the Gov. just wants to make busts, regardless of whether the gear was validated by spec results or not. Besides, just because a UGL avoids posting spec sheets and using the word domestic, its not like they're fooling anyone because every UGL here publically admits to selling gear!!! That's is proof enough, don't you think? Evey UGL has their own forum, advertisements, multiple reps talking about how great the gear was, as well as customer saying the same. Unless a Federal Agent was retarded, I don't see how posting results or using the word dometic is any more of a give away than what is already being publically proclaimed.
> 
> ...



Wow. Sorry but this needs to be said. Do you realize EVERY long essay you write in the end is to plug a sponsor? Z, IML, PSL, and many peptide suppliers... now Big D. Thousands of bloodwork tests? Lets do the math. Regarding blood testing lets assume 3000. First of all, thats well over $100,000 in lab fees. Second - think of the time! Even at 10 samples PER DAY it would take a whole year to do that.

When someone actually gets bloodwork done and posts it in that sponsors thread and in the bloodwork section its something of an event and it gets discussed - because it doesn't happen all that often. This thread claims to have conducted more tests than everyone on all the boards put together and no one has talked about it elsewhere until now?

To say that anything at 90% purity is the best in the business is false. 90% purity isn't even good enough for animal use. There are sponsors on this board who have never tested less than 95% and are usually over 97%. 86% for Primo E? There is a sponsor on this board whose PrimoE tested at 98%. Its cute to blame the raws suppliers. That is clearly not the problem. Is there now supposed to be some reward for 90% purity. Laughable.

Mass spec? See this from someone who actually does mass spec testing " http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/big-d-pharma/189373-mass-spectrometry-results-2.html#post3181796 "

As I said before.... what it comes down to is sponsor/customer relationship and trust.... not someone paid off to write paragraphs of conjecture.

My source.... I had bloodwork done and my e2 came back at 618!!! I emailed my private source one evening freaking out and hoping they had stock of letro. Next morning I checked my email and to my surprise was told it was overnighted that day and it was in my mailbox THAT SAME DAY, and no payment had been sent. Just a note to pay up on the next order. Will YOUR sponsor do that??

My source.... my girlfriend after a couple of successful anavar runs decided to try another compound. She totally had a bad reaction to it..... Without question, my money was refunded. Satisfaction guaranteed. Will YOUR sponsor do that?

My source.... I lent a guy on IM some caber because he was sensitive to deca dick.. He had 3 months to pay me back... Of course when it was time for me to use NPP he hadn't paid me back. Upon learning this, my source sent me the replacement FREE OF CHARGE. Will YOUR sponsor do that?

My source... is concerned about safety of everyone involved and does not post mass spec results. But upon request, and if you are trusted, you will see REAL mass spec results, not some cut and pasted results.

_*Every opinion expressed by those on this board, especially those with direct involvment, have some type of a bias, which is a direct result of their current situation.*_

No shit. Looks who's calling the kettle black? I don't get paid for my opinions....


----------



## Mike Arnold (Nov 24, 2013)

edit


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## theCaptn' (Nov 24, 2013)

Can we not turn this thread into 'inter-sponsor wars' please.

Thanks.


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## JerseyDevil (Nov 24, 2013)

Fair enough, but this is in the open forum and I for one did not name a sponsor.


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## Mike Arnold (Nov 24, 2013)

World-Pharma.org said:


> *great posts Mike!*





JerseyDevil said:


> Wow. Sorry but this needs to be said. Do you realize EVERY long essay you write in the end is to plug a sponsor? Z, IML, PSL, and many peptide suppliers... now Big D. Thousands of bloodwork tests? Lets do the math. Regarding blood testing lets assume 3000. First of all, thats well over $100,000 in lab fees. Second - think of the time! Even at 10 samples PER DAY it would take a whole year to do that.
> 
> When someone actually gets bloodwork done and posts it in that sponsors thread and in the bloodwork section its something of an event and it gets discussed - because it doesn't happen all that often. This thread claims to have conducted more tests than everyone on all the boards put together and no one has talked about it elsewhere until now?
> 
> ...



All the scenarios you gave...those are expected from any good sponsor. I expect it. Does it always happen? Of course not, but it should. From everything I have heard, their customer service appears to be very good, BUT...as I continue working for Big D, if I begin to witness anything other than what I believe to be ethical business practices and high quality products, I will not be slient about it...just as I was not silent about PSL when they went south. Yoy can never know what any source/compnay will do in the future, but you take things as they come. That is how people build a good reputation. They call it how they see it...good or bad. I have done so up to this point and will continue to do so. I say the following with humility, bt this is one of the reasons so many people listen to what have to say. Stuff like this doesn't happen by accident.

I have been with IML for years and they have proven themseves to be a respescted and trusted supplier of legal products. At this point, I back them 100%, as do many others...and I will continue to do so, as long as they continue doing what they're doing. I expect they will. IML is the only supplement company I have ever worked for. I have worked for a couple peptide companies...and as many people do when something better comes along, I eventually moved on, but not because I witnessed anything unethical. I still speak highly of both companies and left on good terms. That is pretty much the extent of my dealings with UGL, peptide, and supplement companies. So, inferring thaty I only praise those companies because I work for them is blatantly untrue. I have hand-picked every company I have worked for specifically because I liked what I saw. There was only one company that approached me, that I said yes to...one. I addition, I often OFTEN praise other companies of all sorts, just as I previously did in this very thread! If anything you said pisses me off, it is this...because it is straight up bullshit.

As far your "look who's calling the kettle black" comment, that comment was all-inclusive. I was referring just as much to myself as to anyone else. 

Of course, this thread was a plug for Big D. I said so myself in this very thread! Also, while it is obvious that I recieve gear in return for my work, I won't lie about anything just to get gear...and in truth, I already have enough gear to last me at LEAST 5 years (no exageration). I just don't like to see my supply dwindle...LOL. I decided to go with Bif D because I liked what I was seeing and hearing. My evaluation of the company will continue as long as I am with it. If I saw something I didn't like, I never would have worked for him, regardless of gear or $$$. 

So, I appreciate your points, but several of them I already made myself. The difference betwen me and a lot of reps is I will put everything out there...and some people don't like that. In doing so, if information comes out that ws not previously known about a company...either good or bad, then I consider myself to have done my job, regardless of whether this means I keep my employment or not. I consider my service to the public greater than getting a few hundred dollars in gear...and my MASSIVE amount of public posts, which exeeds almost anyone who has ever posted in the BBinbg community, proves that. The amount of free information/help I have provided is quite large. I do this for fun more than anything...and I will never compromise my reputation for anyone, especially not a bit of gear. I have been lied to in the past by some companies...and when I found out about it, the end result wasn't good...for the company. Any company I rep for should know that if they have something to hide or they feel the need to lie to me about something, they should not hire me to begin with...because I let it all out...and this often brings heated discusssion, but in most cases the end result is good, whether it means a UGL ends up being confirmed as honest and ethical...or dishonest and unethical.  Either way, the community wins.  

With that said, everything I have read & heard about Big D so far is positive...an if that ever changes (as proven by legitimate evidence), then my pubic opinion will change with it.


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## Mike Arnold (Nov 24, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> Sorry for the typos. I have meathead hands.
> That should say
> 
> 
> *those reports are not from a mass spetromoter



This is the first thing I will be looking into when Big D gets back.  For now, I am going to refrain from making any comments about this until I know more.


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## bulldogz (Nov 24, 2013)

If you're in doubt about the quality of any lab or a lab you like, just spend a few hundred and get whatever lab you prefer and get their gear tested for yourself and if it come back legit...stick with them....then post it up for us 

If you can spend a few hundred on gear that is suspect, you can spend it to see if the shit is legit!

Great thread Mike!!


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## JerseyDevil (Nov 24, 2013)

Let me add one thing.  I apologize if I inferred that you are dishonest, or only plug companies you are being compensated for.  I do think you believe in the products you promote wholeheartedly and I have enjoyed reading your articles.  You are a talented writer Mike. Although I came off that way I didn't mean to question your integrity.  I was impressed how you handled the underdosed Bayer issue with PSL, and I've seen you go to bat for others as well.

Peace.


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## JerseyDevil (Nov 24, 2013)

.... oh, and it was one of your articles that convinced me to buy 50 amps of Omnadren from PSL!


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## Valkyrie (Nov 24, 2013)

I also have nothing against Mike I enjoy reading almost anything he writes and he thinks GH15 is a buffoon which means he is right about something extremely important.  He also maintains a cool and respectful non defensive approach which speaks to his character.

As far as these posted "reports" I'm flummoxed.

*BIG D SPEC REPORT THREAD*_






 Originally Posted by *Big D Pharma* 


We have run these on all my products along with thousands of blood work (serum) tests. And I mean thousands of blood work results. When i say my compounds are the best, I mean it, and have the paper work to prove it

_

Thousands of bloodwork? Lets do the math.
Lets assume 3000
First of all, thats well over $100,000 in lab fees.
Second - think of the time! Even at 10 samples PER DAY it would take a whole year to do that.

When someone actually gets bloodwork done and posts it in that sponsors thread and in the bloodwork section its something of an event and it gets discussed - because it doesnt happen all that often. This thread claims to have conducted more tests than everyone on all the boards put together and no one has talked about it elsewhere util now?

Not to mention the terms in the OP. To say that anything at 90% purity is the best in the business is false. 90% purity isn't even good enough for animal use. There are sponsors on this board who have never tested less than 95% and are usually over 97%. 85% for Primo E? There is a sponsor on this board whose PrimoE tested at well over 98%. I can't believe someone would brag about 85%!  ts cute to blame the raws suppliers. That is clearly not the problem. Anyone can take 100% pure raw and dilute it down.  Thats how 90% could easily happen.  Just make 110 vials instead of 100.

Is there now supposed to be some reward for 90% purity? Laughable.

The fact that so many seem eager to jump on this ludicrous bandwagon is highly disturbing.

Lets see some bloodwork.  When I started here I had to get several guys to run bloods on my Test C and E.  Hardly a sale was made until those came in.  I had to send my most expensive items (and several less expensive such as ancillaries) as requested by a stranger for spec testing. I didn't tell HIM what I would send, I sent what he asked because I wanted to prove that I am legit.  Mission accomplished.  How does this same standard not apply to anyone else? Because they posted some sort of report that was NOT generated by a mass spectromoter machine? cummon people. CUMMON,.

And you guys asking for Tren Reports? HE wont get it. He can't. The data needed to run those isn;t accessable to him even if he DID have a legit mass spectromoter (people do have them they are possible to purchase).  He would need high level PhD department head chemistry library access to even start LOOKING for it.

I have plenty of customers. I don't even advertise anymore. I have no need to go to war with a company I don/t know. HOWEVER it truly disgusts me to see faked spec reports posted. Real ones are bad (dangerous) enough but if the last bastion of truth we have to test gear is science you better believe I will point out the bad and fake science every damn time I see it.  It discredits us all and further puts everyone  who buys into it right on the "I got scammed" ship. I've been here too long and care about you guys too much to stand by and see that happen to you.


----------



## World-Pharma.org (Nov 24, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> I also have nothing against Mike I enjoy reading almost anything he writes and he thinks GH15 is a buffoon which means he is right about something extremely important.  He also maintains a cool and respectful non defensive approach which speaks to his character.
> 
> As far as these posted "reports" I'm flummoxed.
> 
> ...





good post.


----------



## Valkyrie (Nov 24, 2013)

MY DAMN MEATHEAD POSTING SKILLS. CORRECTED:



Agentyes said:


> I also have nothing against Mike I enjoy reading almost anything he writes and he thinks GH15 is a buffoon which means he is right about something extremely important.  He also maintains a cool and respectful non defensive approach which speaks to his character.
> 
> As far as these posted "reports" I'm flummoxed.
> 
> ...




I need a secretary.


----------



## Vision (Nov 24, 2013)

theCaptn' said:


> Can we not turn this thread into 'inter-sponsor wars' please.
> 
> Thanks.


I concur with this statesmen..Like I stressed prior, there's a vast amount of sponsors alike that have access to some of the purest Raws avail, I decide to not elaborate on that are for security factors.. With this being said not all UGL operate and manufacture under the same principles..There's a selected few that I know off hand that stand head and shoulders above the rest...Providing and end product that is not only quality, but sterile..
What Ive been advocating for sometime, is the lenght and measures that a UGL will go to, to assure quality control and provide mass test spec to the masses conducted by independent labs.. 
Reputations are earned in this market, not just handed on out a silver platter..No of course if we're speaking about a small mom/pop forum were the feedback and opinions seem biased.. For the most part the consensus can determine what labs are legit and deliver what they claim to produce..

There's labs that exist and manufacturer in facilities that have never been seen before in this market..Due to security reasons I won't disclose on their locations, however rules and regulations are rather different in these regions compared to the States that operate under strict guidelines by the FDA...


----------



## JerseyDevil (Nov 24, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> I need a secretary.


 I offered but you said I was too expensive


----------



## dieseljimmy (Nov 24, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> MY DAMN MEATHEAD POSTING SKILLS. CORRECTED:
> 
> I need a secretary.[/COLOR]



Resume highlights
6'2 260 19 and some change in the shelves
No sexual harrassmemt training needed
Types less the 50 words a minute
Not holding a grudge that I didnt get "the" email
Likes dolph lungren.

ROID, XYZ, WOR and Saney references available.(good luck finding them)


----------



## SheriV (Nov 24, 2013)

lololol@ 19 and some change


and he seriously needs his own editor because hes always typing on his phone instead of a proper computer


----------



## s2h (Nov 24, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> MY DAMN MEATHEAD POSTING SKILLS. CORRECTED:
> 
> 
> 
> I need a secretary.[/COLOR]



If I take the secretary job can someone else mow the lawn...too hot and grassy and stuff


----------



## dieseljimmy (Nov 24, 2013)

SheriV said:


> lololol@ 19 and some change
> 
> 
> and he seriously needs his own editor because hes always typing on his phone instead of a proper computer



Ok only the right one after a pump.


----------



## ordawg1 (Nov 24, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> MY DAMN MEATHEAD POSTING SKILLS. CORRECTED:
> 
> 
> 
> I need a secretary.[/COLOR]



I'll take that job !!! A lil weak on " publishing skills" -but a " pretty fair" *honest* reputation !! -lol-OD


----------



## Mike Arnold (Nov 24, 2013)

bulldogz said:


> If you're in doubt about the quality of any lab or a lab you like, just spend a few hundred and get whatever lab you prefer and get their gear tested for yourself and if it come back legit...stick with them....then post it up for us
> 
> If you can spend a few hundred on gear that is suspect, you can spend it to see if the shit is legit!
> 
> Great thread Mike!!


*Thanks...appreciate that.
*



JerseyDevil said:


> Let me add one thing. I apologize if I inferred that you are dishonest, or only plug companies you are being compensated for. I do think you believe in the products you promote wholeheartedly and I have enjoyed reading your articles. You are a talented writer Mike. Although I came off that way I didn't mean to question your integrity. I was impressed how you handled the underdosed Bayer issue with PSL, and I've seen you go to bat for others as well.
> *No problem...and thanks, brother.
> *
> Peace.



see bold above.


----------



## Mike Arnold (Nov 24, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> I also have nothing against Mike I enjoy reading almost anything he writes and he thinks GH15 is a buffoon which means he is right about something extremely important. He also maintains a cool and respectful non defensive approach which speaks to his character.
> 
> As far as these posted "reports" I'm flummoxed.
> 
> ...



If what you say is true (about fake mas spec reports), then I am a bit baffled given the following. As you all know, I selected this company based on its quality control measures and positive feedback, which is how we should select UGL for employment/purchase. More than anything, I was impressed that he was actually posting mass spec tests (I know AY doesn't like them being posted, but customers do appreciate them), as they are the gold-standard of product testing. Prior to officially coming on board with Big D, I specifically approached him about these mass spec results and let him know right up front that valid mass spec test results were a sales goldmine (as they should be) and if I were to begin working for him, my full intention was to spread the word and increase public awareness of these test results. To neglect using valid test results as a sales tool would have been foolish, espacially when so few others publically post results. From a sales perspective, it was a no-brainer. The goal of any decent, ethical rep is to highlight a company's strong points and let the customer make decisions for themselves. That is exactly what I did in this thread. 

With nothing to hide, I came out with everything right up front. By doing so, if it is eventually determined that these results are indeed fake, well...then that is just business suicide, especially because he knew what I was going to do. It just doesn't make sense for him to bring me on board knowing this. It seems to me that if someone is posting fake results, they would not want them being posted in front of everyone...but I guess stranger things have happened. I have a few trusted people I can contact about this matter, who can confirm or deny the claim of them being fake. Hopefully, they will post in this thread. At this point, since I cannot read mass spec reports (few people on the boards can), it is my duty to continue supporting Big D until this matter finds full resolution (confirmed by mutiple unbiased people). I would be quite dissappointed if these results end up being fake, but either way, this thread will have been a benefit to the board and in my opinion, is further affirmation that my approach was the right one. 

Regarding the blood tests, I sent a PM to Big D a couple of days ago (pre-thread), asking if I could post them on on the board in order to confirm the claim, so I am one step ahead of you (AY & Jersey Devil) on that one. Unfortunately, I have been communicating with Big D solely through PM..and I think he only checks his pm's here a couple times a week, baed on previous response time. I do know he is closed for the weekend and will be open tomorrow, so hopefully he will be available for comment then.


----------



## VictorZ06 (Nov 24, 2013)

This is getting a little out of hand.  Lets face it....if you are looking for a bottle of tren, you can't go to your pharmacy with a script and pick it up because IT DOES NOT EXIST.  So, you have two options.  Get the pellets and make the shit yourself, or use a UGL that makes it for you?  In most cases, tren is fuckn tren.  It's not hard to make, and most of the tren I have tried from good labs all are almost the same.  Some a little stronger than others, but not by much.  I'm not going to sit down and make my own....I don't have the time or the space to do that shit.

And since I have been using BigDs products for over 5 years (when he was private), I have been VERY happy with both his service and products.  I always get blood work done and I've been in this game long enough to tell a good product from a bunk or junk product.  All my test comes from a pharmacy....but things like tren, EQ, TNE, etc., I turn to my bro BigD.  I've used his orals many times, but I get them for next to nothing from pharmacies in Europe....same with my proviron, T3, adex, aromasin, caber, nolva, clomid, etc.  All that stuff I get from a real pharmacy.

So pick a lab of your choice, someone that you trust and you are happy with....and be done with it.  Those doubting BigD's products are those who compete for his services.  Like I said, I back BigD 100000% because I have been using him for more years than I have fingers....and his shit is the bomb.  For those of you who go elsewhere.....you are missing out big time.  BigD time!  LOL



/V


----------



## s2h (Nov 25, 2013)

ordawg1 said:


> I'll take that job !!! A lil weak on " publishing skills" -but a " pretty fair" *honest* reputation !! -lol-OD



Jobs filled....I work for lower wages and only require a pb&j sand which and milk for lunch..


----------



## Mike Arnold (Nov 25, 2013)

VictorZ06 said:


> This is getting a little out of hand. Lets face it....if you are looking for a bottle of tren, you can't go to your pharmacy with a script and pick it up because IT DOES NOT EXIST. So, you have two options. Get the pellets and make the shit yourself, or use a UGL that makes it for you? In most cases, tren is fuckn tren. It's not hard to make, and most of the tren I have tried from good labs all are almost the same. Some a little stronger than others, but not by much. I'm not going to sit down and make my own....I don't have the time or the space to do that shit.
> 
> And since I have been using BigDs products for over 5 years (when he was private), I have been VERY happy with both his service and products. I always get blood work done and I've been in this game long enough to tell a good product from a bunk or junk product. All my test comes from a pharmacy....but things like tren, EQ, TNE, etc., I turn to my bro BigD. I've used his orals many times, but I get them for next to nothing from pharmacies in Europe....same with my proviron, T3, adex, aromasin, caber, nolva, clomid, etc. All that stuff I get from a real pharmacy.
> 
> ...



These are the type of comments I have been hearing from those who have used Big D's gear--they all say it is great.


----------



## SheriV (Nov 25, 2013)

dieseljimmy said:


> Ok only the right one after a pump.



Jimmy showed me what he meant by 19 manly inches last night

I retract my earlier statement

still both handsome and charming


----------



## blergs. (Nov 25, 2013)

Mike Arnold said:


> All the scenarios you gave...those are expected from any good sponsor. I expect it. Does it always happen? Of course not, but it should. From everything I have heard, their customer service appears to be very good, BUT...as I continue working for Big D, if I begin to witness anything other than what I believe to be ethical business practices and high quality products, I will not be slient about it...just as I was not silent about PSL when they went south. Yoy can never know what any source/compnay will do in the future, but you take things as they come. That is how people build a good reputation. They call it how they see it...good or bad. I have done so up to this point and will continue to do so. I say the following with humility, bt this is one of the reasons so many people listen to what have to say. Stuff like this doesn't happen by accident.
> 
> I have been with IML for years and they have proven themseves to be a respescted and trusted supplier of legal products. At this point, I back them 100%, as do many others...and I will continue to do so, as long as they continue doing what they're doing. I expect they will. IML is the only supplement company I have ever worked for. I have worked for a couple peptide companies...and as many people do when something better comes along, I eventually moved on, but not because I witnessed anything unethical. I still speak highly of both companies and left on good terms. That is pretty much the extent of my dealings with UGL, peptide, and supplement companies. So, inferring thaty I only praise those companies because I work for them is blatantly untrue. I have hand-picked every company I have worked for specifically because I liked what I saw. There was only one company that approached me, that I said yes to...one. I addition, I often OFTEN praise other companies of all sorts, just as I previously did in this very thread! If anything you said pisses me off, it is this...because it is straight up bullshit.
> 
> ...



Well said man! I am the EXACT same way!    I too have alot of stock.... its an insult to me for people to think i would mess with my integrity for some gear..... nothing wrong with helping a good source out, and if something shady happens ill be posting about it too!


----------



## blergs. (Nov 25, 2013)

VictorZ06 said:


> This is getting a little out of hand.  Lets face it....if you are looking for a bottle of tren, you can't go to your pharmacy with a script and pick it up because IT DOES NOT EXIST.  So, you have two options.  Get the pellets and make the shit yourself, or use a UGL that makes it for you?  In most cases, tren is fuckn tren.  It's not hard to make, and most of the tren I have tried from good labs all are almost the same.  Some a little stronger than others, but not by much.  I'm not going to sit down and make my own....I don't have the time or the space to do that shit.
> 
> And since *I have been using BigDs products for over 5 years (when he was private),* I have been VERY happy with both his service and products.  I always get blood work done and I've been in this game long enough to tell a good product from a bunk or junk product.  All my test comes from a pharmacy....but things like tren, EQ, TNE, etc., I turn to my bro BigD.  I've used his orals many times, but I get them for next to nothing from pharmacies in Europe....same with my proviron, T3, adex, aromasin, caber, nolva, clomid, etc.  All that stuff I get from a real pharmacy.
> 
> ...



Good lord how do you lift!?!?!? :-O  

hahaha just fukin with you!


----------



## blergs. (Nov 25, 2013)

SheriV said:


> Jimmy showed me what he meant by 19 manly inches last night
> 
> I retract my earlier statement
> 
> still both handsome and charming



I cant top that..... but i can hit it VERY well with my 8  give good oral too ;-)   opps this is not the AG section....


----------



## SheriV (Nov 25, 2013)

lolz

I like a good derailing of topic


----------



## Valkyrie (Nov 25, 2013)

dieseljimmy said:


> Resume highlights
> 6'2 260 19 and some change in the shelves
> No sexual harrassmemt training needed
> Types less the 50 words a minute
> ...



You should have gotten an email I shall send a PM. and you're hired. Pay is nil and no shirts allowed.



Mike Arnold said:


> If what you say is true (about fake mas spec reports), then I am a bit baffled given the following. As you all know, I selected this company based on its quality control measures and positive feedback, which is how we should select UGL for employment/purchase. More than anything, I was impressed that he was actually posting mass spec tests (I know AY doesn't like them being posted, but customers do appreciate them), as they are the gold-standard of product testing. Prior to officially coming on board with Big D, I specifically approached him about these mass spec results and let him know right up front that valid mass spec test results were a sales goldmine (as they should be) and if I were to begin working for him, my full intention was to spread the word and increase public awareness of these test results. To neglect using valid test results as a sales tool would have been foolish, espacially when so few others publically post results. From a sales perspective, it was a no-brainer. The goal of any decent, ethical rep is to highlight a company's strong points and let the customer make decisions for themselves. That is exactly what I did in this thread.
> 
> With nothing to hide, I came out with everything right up front. By doing so, if it is eventually determined that these results are indeed fake, well...then that is just business suicide, especially because he knew what I was going to do. It just doesn't make sense for him to bring me on board knowing this. It seems to me that if someone is posting fake results, they would not want them being posted in front of everyone...but I guess stranger things have happened. I have a few trusted people I can contact about this matter, who can confirm or deny the claim of them being fake. Hopefully, they will post in this thread. At this point, since I cannot read mass spec reports (few people on the boards can), it is my duty to continue supporting Big D until this matter finds full resolution (confirmed by mutiple unbiased people). I would be quite dissappointed if these results end up being fake, but either way, this thread will have been a benefit to the board and in my opinion, is further affirmation that my approach was the right one.
> 
> Regarding the blood tests, I sent a PM to Big D a couple of days ago (pre-thread), asking if I could post them on on the board in order to confirm the claim, so I am one step ahead of you (AY & Jersey Devil) on that one. Unfortunately, I have been communicating with Big D solely through PM..and I think he only checks his pm's here a couple times a week, baed on previous response time. I do know he is closed for the weekend and will be open tomorrow, so hopefully he will be available for comment then.



I do not question YOUR intent in any way. I fully believe you are coming from a legit and honorable place. I also know the extreme lengths some labs go to in order to scam people. We underestimate the level of deviousness possible and they underestimate the intelligence and massive years of spec experience possessed on this board.


----------



## independent (Nov 25, 2013)

This is why i only use fda gmp approved gear from wp.


----------



## Bout2getReal (Nov 25, 2013)

Lmao at this post. It's like a bunch of thieves in a room wondering who stole the others wallet and calling each other thieves - pure comedy. Keep it up its entertaining as Fuck. No my mass spec is better than yours. Nuh-uh mines better. No I'm more respected and honest. Nuh uh I'm am. No body believes this shit except for the noobs anyways. Go back to posting nudes of yourself  to sell gear now at least thats an honest approach and for the other parties stop trying to one up everyone. There sponsors on here that sell dirty as gear but they are cheap and they make a living and have great following so don't sweat it. If your gear is good it will sell. Now why don't big d and uncle z just run a train on AY and call it good. I'd jump in but my pee pee is too small to Fuck a hallway. I like mine a little tighter. Ill watch and take pics if you guys want. Hey maybe that will sell the your gears. Just say that's how you mass spec. Throw in a cameo by WP and you guys are good. All know best product. All see AY and mike best in fucKy fucK mass spec talk. You buy now.


----------



## independent (Nov 25, 2013)

As confucius once said,

" He who receives most free gear posts long paragraph"


----------



## dieseljimmy (Nov 25, 2013)

ThePitCrew said:


> Lmao at this post. It's like a bunch of thieves in a room wondering who stole the others wallet and calling each other thieves - pure comedy. Keep it up its entertaining as Fuck. No my mass spec is better than yours. Nuh-uh mines better. No I'm more respected and honest. Nuh uh I'm am. No body believes this shit except for the noobs anyways. Go back to posting nudes of yourself  to sell gear now at least thats an honest approach and for the other parties stop trying to one up everyone. There sponsors on here that sell dirty as gear but they are cheap and they make a living and have great following so don't sweat it. If your gear is good it will sell. Now why don't big d and uncle z just run a train on AY and call it good. I'd jump in but my pee pee is too small to Fuck a hallway. I like mine a little tighter. Ill watch and take pics if you guys want. Hey maybe that will sell the your gears. Just say that's how you mass spec. Throw in a cameo by WP and you guys are good. All know best product. All see AY and mike best in fucKy fucK mass spec talk. You buy now.




^^^ off my christmas card list


----------



## SheriV (Nov 25, 2013)

ThePitCrew said:


> Lmao at this post. It's like a bunch of thieves in a room wondering who stole the others wallet and calling each other thieves - pure comedy. Keep it up its entertaining as Fuck. No my mass spec is better than yours. Nuh-uh mines better. No I'm more respected and honest. Nuh uh I'm am. No body believes this shit except for the noobs anyways. Go back to posting nudes of yourself  to sell gear now at least thats an honest approach and for the other parties stop trying to one up everyone. There sponsors on here that sell dirty as gear but they are cheap and they make a living and have great following so don't sweat it. If your gear is good it will sell. Now why don't big d and uncle z just run a train on AY and call it good. I'd jump in but my pee pee is too small to Fuck a hallway. I like mine a little tighter. Ill watch and take pics if you guys want. Hey maybe that will sell the your gears. Just say that's how you mass spec. Throw in a cameo by WP and you guys are good. All know best product. All see AY and mike best in fucKy fucK mass spec talk. You buy now.




yeah, I'll take fire for this but ..this is unnecessarily nasty..and NOT AG

you're right..everyone has their own following so why tear down other sponsors or reps? there's no need...
I've hotly defended some of AMA's shit on other forums in the past .... and I will always stand up for a source that I don't think is a crook but I've flat out lost respect for your crew right now not that amounts to one hill of fucks to give but maybe it'll give you something to think about; about how you conduct yourself out of your own forum or AG.


----------



## theCaptn' (Nov 25, 2013)

ThePitCrew said:


> Lmao at this post. It's like a bunch of thieves in a room wondering who stole the others wallet and calling each other thieves - pure comedy. Keep it up its entertaining as Fuck. No my mass spec is better than yours. Nuh-uh mines better. No I'm more respected and honest. Nuh uh I'm am. No body believes this shit except for the noobs anyways. Go back to posting nudes of yourself  to sell gear now at least thats an honest approach and for the other parties stop trying to one up everyone. There sponsors on here that sell dirty as gear but they are cheap and they make a living and have great following so don't sweat it. If your gear is good it will sell. Now why don't big d and uncle z just run a train on AY and call it good. I'd jump in but my pee pee is too small to Fuck a hallway. I like mine a little tighter. Ill watch and take pics if you guys want. Hey maybe that will sell the your gears. Just say that's how you mass spec. Throw in a cameo by WP and you guys are good. All know best product. All see AY and mike best in fucKy fucK mass spec talk. You buy now.



Disappointing post. We expect a higher standard from from sponsors and reps.


----------



## ordawg1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Not cool at all-I think someone owes a huge apology-OD


----------



## Bout2getReal (Nov 25, 2013)

SheriV said:


> yeah, I'll take fire for this but ..this is unnecessarily nasty..and NOT AG
> 
> you're right..everyone has their own following so why tear down other sponsors or reps? there's no need...
> I've hotly defended some of AMA's shit on other forums in the past .... and I will always stand up for a source that I don't think is a crook but I've flat out lost respect for your crew right now not that amounts to one hill of fucks to give but maybe it'll give you something to think about; about how you conduct yourself out of your own forum or AG.



Well first of all Sheri ill start out by saying that you and the Captn have my respects. If i don't have yours im ok with that. I know how my posts come off at times. How i feel about you guys doesn't change. I didnt mean anything against you guys. As far as the crew goes. These are my thoughts and my thoughts only. Theres only so much bullshit you can hear and take without calling bullshit. All these people come in here claiming this and that and most of it is bullshit. Thats all i was saying. This back and forth gets old. Im cool with everyone doing their own thing but everyone has to get involved in everyone else s shit to show they are superior so they can try and peddle gear. I don't apologize much but if i offended you i apologize. It wasnt meant for you.


----------



## heavyiron (Nov 25, 2013)

Group hugs?


----------



## OfficerFarva (Nov 25, 2013)

heavyiron said:


> Group hugs?




Dutch rudders for all!


----------



## JerseyDevil (Nov 25, 2013)

ThePitCrew said:


> Lmao at this post. It's like a bunch of thieves in a room wondering who stole the others wallet and calling each other thieves - pure comedy. Keep it up its entertaining as Fuck. No my mass spec is better than yours. Nuh-uh mines better. No I'm more respected and honest. Nuh uh I'm am. No body believes this shit except for the noobs anyways. Go back to posting nudes of yourself  to sell gear now at least thats an honest approach and for the other parties stop trying to one up everyone. There sponsors on here that sell dirty as gear but they are cheap and they make a living and have great following so don't sweat it. If your gear is good it will sell. Now why don't big d and uncle z just run a train on AY and call it good. I'd jump in but my pee pee is too small to Fuck a hallway. I like mine a little tighter. Ill watch and take pics if you guys want. Hey maybe that will sell the your gears. Just say that's how you mass spec. Throw in a cameo by WP and you guys are good. All know best product. All see AY and mike best in fucKy fucK mass spec talk. You buy now.



Totally uncalled for.


----------



## Bout2getReal (Nov 25, 2013)

Lol. You already commented. I'm off your Christmas list.


----------



## dieseljimmy (Nov 25, 2013)

ThePitCrew said:


> Lol. You already commented. I'm off your Christmas list.



Me and the jersey devil are separate animals. Jd dj ill give you some rope.  Somedays I would like to be jd... his wife is hot!


----------



## dieseljimmy (Nov 25, 2013)

heavyiron said:


> Group hugs?



I usually have an erection... if you guys are ok with that... im going to stand  behind  AY


----------



## tommygunz (Nov 25, 2013)

Wow, I just waded through 118 posts on everything but the kitchen sink, 15 minutes of my fleeting life I'll never get back. So since I've pissed that away I might as well waste another 5 minutes.

Mike, you are a very well respected authority on AAS and I've been reading everything you write for many years and will continue to do so. So when you say that *you *feel good about getting behind the spot light UGL, I believe it. I don't always agree with what you say but I do believe it's your honest opinion.

Victor, you have been around forever and are a level headed, even keeled brother that I have had many good convos with. You are a straight shooter in my book.

Farva, you are a new rep and I know how that feels. You have a job to do, we all know this. 

Pit Crew, well you are just a fucking asshole. Some how you make this work for you in your business, I'm still baffled by that one, but rock on, apparently it's working.

Personal observations over, onto a few facts. Cut the lights, cue the slide projector, yup I'm that oldskool.

1. Source discussion is not allowed in the Anabolic Zone 


See says so right there...hmm what does this mean. My take is that the mods, supermods and admins  in this thread don't give two shits about the rules....interesting. Doesn't really mean dick, but yet still interesting. I know Farvas incentive, he's a rep that's paid to bump his sponsors goods. The rest of you really should know better. Fuck it so should he, if you can't read you have no business doing the job. OK let's move on.

A little history on our topic of discussion,  I've been around long enough and talked to him enough to know what the "D" means, so this is no snow job. He used to be a member here and that's all I'm going to say, that got in a little bind with the admin over, let's say private sales...wink, wink. So screw it he went on to bigger and better things, the American dream so to speak. Kudos, because he is a good guy and has always been honest with me, gotta give him respect there. The last time I will bring him up in this long winded rambling, thanks Mike you taught me well.

Personally, and it's just that, my opinion, that we are all wasting our time in this thread, kind of like a bunch of fleas arguing over the dog. There are so many people to peddle gear to, who gives one shit about this UGL over that UGL. It is natural selection around here, the strong survive and the weak die. Period. If you are bullshit, well it's sayonara and if you are legit you are G2G. The masses will be heard and if you think it's the other way around you are just in denial.

This concludes my portion of the program, please feel free to resume your bickering and back biting. Oh and feel free to slander, slur and drag my name through the mud. Apparently that's what we are all here for, especially you Pit Crew, still can't figure that one out. 

Please excuse me now as I have to wander over to AG and check out Ich's latest addition to Barely Legal and see if Lord john has posted anymore pics of Miley's ass. TG


----------



## VictorZ06 (Nov 25, 2013)

tommygunz said:


> Victor, you have been around forever and are a level headed, even keeled brother that I have had many good convos with. You are a straight shooter in my book.
> 
> 1. Source discussion is not allowed in the Anabolic Zone



Thanks bro, right back at ya.  The feeling is mutual as you got your shit in order and know your stuff.  My hat comes off to you for saying how it is.  I would have closed this thread, but since an admin got into it and became aware of it...if he wanted it closed, he would have closed it.  This thread is doing more harm than good to ALL of us.  We are drawing attention to where we least want it....if you guys think about it long enough, I'm sure most of you would agree.




/V


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## Mike Arnold (Nov 26, 2013)

Agentyes said:


> You should have gotten an email I shall send a PM. and you're hired. Pay is nil and no shirts allowed.
> 
> 
> 
> I do not question YOUR intent in any way. I fully believe you are coming from a legit and honorable place. I also know the extreme lengths some labs go to in order to scam people. We underestimate the level of deviousness possible and they underestimate the intelligence and massive years of spec experience possessed on this board.



I appreciate that, AY.  No disrespect was intended by posting the OP, although in hindight I can see how one might take it that way.  My apologies.


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## Mike Arnold (Nov 26, 2013)

Update: I am still in the process of having the mass spec tests evaluated. I have formed a few opinions at this point, but I don't believe I have enough information to confidently make a statement one way or the other regarding the situation in its entirety. One thing I will say is that out of everyone I have spoken to so far, not a single one of them had anything negative to say about Big D or his products. Frankly, none of them thinks Big D was trying to scam anyone with these results, regardless of whether they believe the spec results are real or not. I realize this may be confusing, but as with many things in life, there may be more than meets the eye.

In addition, NONE of the people I have consulted about this (some of whom are highly respected, well known on the boards and intimately involved with this side of the UGL business) are associated with Big D's business in any way, nor do they stand to profit in any way by relaying their opinions to me. All these conversations took place privately and I believe their opinions/feelings on the matter are honest and un-biased. Of course, it would be great if they coud post here themselves and share freely, but they do not want to get publically involved or have their names associated with their opinions on a public forum. While I can understand this, I am also aware that this makes everything I just said heresay, but it's all I can offer right now. 

I appreciate everyones contributions in this thread from the UGL owners, to the Mods, to the general member/customer. Without these forums and the people that frequent them, we would be deprived of a huge advantage.


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## heavyiron (Nov 26, 2013)

On that note lets lock this one down.


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## VictorZ06 (Nov 26, 2013)

Good man Heavy....I would have done so sooner but since you chimed in, I didn't want to step on your toes brother.




/V


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