# Some winstrol questions;



## Evil ANT (Sep 17, 2004)

I've always used dianabol, and I love the stuff, but holy crap does it cause bloat. I gain incredible strength but the muscle is covered by a layer of blubber.

For my next cutting cycle (I do understand diet very well) I'm thinking of trying winstrol. I've already done some basic research on it.

My main question, though, is how many mg's would I take a day? My source sells them in 50 mg tabs and in 10 mg tabs. It seems to me like taking the 10 mg tabs would be better as you can spread them out throughout the day, right? 50 mg's at a time seems a bit hard on the liver. I could be wrong, though. I'm far more familiar with dbol than winstrol.

So, I guess my main question would be, should I go with 50 mg tabs or 10 mg tabs? And if I do go with the 10's, how many a day should I take?

Thanks guys.


----------



## Evil ANT (Sep 17, 2004)

To clarify a bit more, I take dbol when on my bulking cycle. I eat like a pig. So, some fat is expected. I'm just considering taking winny during my cutting cycle so I can keep more of the muscle I've gained.


----------



## Supermans Daddy (Sep 17, 2004)

I have always used 50 mg a day, when I used to use 10 i'd take 2 in tha morn  1 at noon and 2 at night. When I use 50mg tabs I take half in tha morn tha other half at night. Lately I'm on Anavar/ Winstrol caps at 15mg var/ 25mg winnie, I take em 12 hrs apart.


----------



## Evil ANT (Sep 17, 2004)

Cool, thanks man! I'm thinking I'll order 10 mg tabs since they'd be easier for me to take. 

Does winny work as well as dbol, or is it all subjective?


----------



## Supermans Daddy (Sep 17, 2004)

> Does winny work as well as dbol, or is it all subjective?


                                                                                     To be honest my man I'm not tha one to give correct info on that as I've never done D bol. I'didn't even know that were thought to even work tha same. If you're ask'n me what I think you are, then my answer would be ,I think that Dbol and winnie work totallay different from each other, I think ( not know) that D bol is kinda more for tha bulk up get'n swoll thang whereas, winstrol is built rep on Cut'n or quick strength, with little or no water retention. I'm not sure but I think D bol is kinda "bloat friendly". I hope I'm kick'n correct game on tha D bol here.  I'm pretty sure their both 17aa's. Winnie is for sure. Protect that LIVER homey!             Peace n Love


----------



## Mudge (Sep 18, 2004)

If you eat like a pig you are going to get fat unless you are damn lucky, dbol doesn't make you fat and winny wont make you ripped.

50-100mg a day for winny, split in half is fine. Cut them in half and they would work fine.


----------



## JerseyDevil (Sep 18, 2004)

I used winstrol at 50mg ed.  The last couple of weeks upped it to 75mg ed.  When doing 50mg I tried dividing it up into two doses, and also tried just one daily dose.  I really couldn't tell any difference, but since the half life of winny is 9 hours, two divided doses is preferable.  Never tried dbol, but for me winny gave me a nice increase in strength, and moderate but easy to keep lean mass gains with little water retention.


----------



## LAM (Sep 18, 2004)

Evil ANT said:
			
		

> I've always used dianabol, and I love the stuff, but holy crap does it cause bloat. I gain incredible strength but the muscle is covered by a layer of blubber.
> 
> For my next cutting cycle (I do understand diet very well) I'm thinking of trying winstrol. I've already done some basic research on it.
> 
> ...



have you ever used arimidex or femera when on dbol ?


----------



## Evil ANT (Sep 18, 2004)

Thanks for the info, gang.

LAM - No, I've never tried arimidex or femera when on dbol. Only stuff I've done while on dbol is test and deca. Post cycle I've used clomid in the past but I wasn't a huge fan of it so I'm currently holding on to some nolva for the post on the cycle I'm on right now.

I've made tremendous gains from dbol but the water retention it causes can kind of suck. 

I'm on a slight cutting cycle now. I'm laying off the fat and carbs and watching my calories before I start another bulking cycle in a couple of months. Then, a few months after that, I'll start a total cutting cycle.

I have a long-term plan, trust me. So far it's working out. I just wanted to learn the pros and cons of winstrol before taking it (if I chose to).


----------



## LAM (Sep 18, 2004)

next time you run the dbol hit up some arimidex or femera. it will cut down on the water retention...


----------



## lengyes (Sep 19, 2004)

Jersey Devil - wasn't that hard on the liver? Any sides, and what did you use for detoxifying agents? Sorry for the questions, but I am going to start a cycle next month of oral winstrol and sust injections for the first time. thanks.


----------



## Evil ANT (Sep 19, 2004)

LAM said:
			
		

> next time you run the dbol hit up some arimidex or femera. it will cut down on the water retention...


Wow, that's really good to know! Thanks a ton for that bit of information. I'll be sure to try that. I love dbol as it yields such amazing results for me, but I could do without as much bloat.


----------



## LAM (Sep 19, 2004)

lengyes said:
			
		

> Jersey Devil - wasn't that hard on the liver? Any sides, and what did you use for detoxifying agents? Sorry for the questions, but I am going to start a cycle next month of oral winstrol and sust injections for the first time. thanks.



when are you starting the winstrol ? it should only be run for about 6 weeks.  I have never done more than 50 mg/ED some people go higher, even up to 100 mg/ED but that has got to be hell on the joints...


----------



## Evil ANT (Sep 19, 2004)

I don't plan on running winny _at least_ for another month or two. I'll take your advice and go with a six week cycle. I doubt I'll go higher than 50 mg's a day. I like to stay on the safer side of things.


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 19, 2004)

Hey Evil Ant I have the IP 50mg blue winny tabs. I havn't used them yet but many people have told me they work great. If it helps any I was going to run them half in the morning and half in the evening. So if you go that route get yourself a pill splitter. IMO its easier to take to halves that are micro sized rather then five whole pills ED. 50mg ED seems to be the average dose for winstrol tabs. You can't get away with EOD unless you inject it. So I hear anyways. Let us know how it goes!


----------



## R1pilot (Sep 19, 2004)

I'm just curious as to why everyone seems to be using the winny tabs instead of injections.  I have never tried the tabs, but I heard they are not near as effective.  Just not enough of the stuff actually making it into your system.


----------



## lengyes (Sep 20, 2004)

Lam - 


In two weeks (about October 1st) I was planning on going with 30mg winstrol per day for 8 weeks and 250mg sustanan every other week. With this I was going to throw in clen and milk thistle as well as drinking about 1/2 gallon of water a day. How does that sound? Also, I have read that the Pakistani sustanan is underdosed by about 100mg a dose. Any info on this? The Pakistani is all that was available to me, although I can't complain about the price and it is verified legit. To answer another person's question about why winni tabs and not injections - it is a hell of a lot cheaper to go tabs instead of injections from where I am anyway.


----------



## trHawT (Sep 20, 2004)

LOL.  I'm in Pakistan right now, TDY.  Want me to ask?


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 20, 2004)

Hey R1 its because the benefits of the painful injections ED or EOD do not appeal to most people. Tabs are as effective or slightly less effective without any pain. And Tabs are usually a lot cheaper.


----------



## LAM (Sep 20, 2004)

lengyes said:
			
		

> Lam -
> 
> 
> In two weeks (about October 1st) I was planning on going with 30mg winstrol per day for 8 weeks and 250mg sustanan every other week. With this I was going to throw in clen and milk thistle as well as drinking about 1/2 gallon of water a day. How does that sound? Also, I have read that the Pakistani sustanan is underdosed by about 100mg a dose. Any info on this? The Pakistani is all that was available to me, although I can't complain about the price and it is verified legit. To answer another person's question about why winni tabs and not injections - it is a hell of a lot cheaper to go tabs instead of injections from where I am anyway.



I would go winny @ 50 mg/ED for 6 weeks.  and about the sust if the price is so  cheap and it is rummored to be underdosed I would use  1 amp every 3-4 days


----------



## Evil ANT (Sep 20, 2004)

Great responses by all!

If I can find winny as an injectible I may go with it as I have no problem sticking myself at all. I'm fairly use to it now.


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 20, 2004)

Hey Evil Ant the winny is painful for most people due to it being water based. Some guys don't mind it, but if its going to be liver toxic either way you might as well save yourself from the pain.


----------



## Mudge (Sep 20, 2004)

Its the crystal size, not the water itself. HCG injections are completely painless. Not many outfits turn out micronized winny or suspension but its out there.


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 20, 2004)

Thanks for clearing that up Mudge. I was thinking something along those lines but didn't say it with fear of being wrong. The PGH I was shooting was water based and no pain...


----------



## R1pilot (Sep 21, 2004)

I'll trade the SLIGHT sore feeling for the full dose.  If you're gonna use something might as well get the most outta it.


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 21, 2004)

Well atleast if you inject it and don't like how sore you get you can drink it.


----------



## Mudge (Sep 21, 2004)

R1pilot said:
			
		

> I'll trade the SLIGHT sore feeling for the full dose.  If you're gonna use something might as well get the most outta it.



It will be slight if its quality stuff, it goes through the liver either way. You will be shooting it every day, fun fun fun.


----------



## R1pilot (Sep 21, 2004)

I worked out my next cycle on paper, OMG!!!! Damn near every day for 8 weeks.  Using prop may be a pain, I just want to use it for the first time, that way if I see stuff I don't like I don't have to wait as long for it to go away, if I decide to stop.


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 21, 2004)

R1pilot said:
			
		

> Using prop may be a pain, I just want to use it for the first time, that way if I see stuff I don't like I don't have to wait as long for it to go away, if I decide to stop.



I went prop my first run and I'm so happy I did because I did have anxiety issues. So getting off in a hurry was a blessing...and worth the frequent injections for me.


----------



## Mudge (Sep 21, 2004)

R1pilot said:
			
		

> I worked out my next cycle on paper, OMG!!!! Damn near every day for 8 weeks.  Using prop may be a pain, I just want to use it for the first time, that way if I see stuff I don't like I don't have to wait as long for it to go away, if I decide to stop.



Prop can be EOD, the winny is shot ED.


----------



## ZorroAzul (Sep 21, 2004)

I can't do winny injections (at least from Zambon)  I did only a few in the shoulders and I could barely drive my car with the pain that would stay for 3-5 days at a time, no way.   I drank it and it was just as good.


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 21, 2004)

R1 your going to be sore all over....if your doing two injections EOD and 1 injection the other days...your going to have to rotate like 6-8 sites to not inject too frequently in the same spot. Winny and Prop are both notorious for being painful...your going to be a very sore man for however long you run that cycle.


----------



## titans13ae (Sep 21, 2004)

so how much better is injecting winny than drinking it.


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 21, 2004)

titans13ae said:
			
		

> so how much better is injecting winny than drinking it.



IMO not enough to put up with painful ED injections. I'm not speaking from person experience, but I have always read that some people "believe" that injections yield better gains. I have not heard enough people comment that injections worked significantly better.


----------



## R1pilot (Sep 21, 2004)

Yeah I know ED on the winny.  I just finished up my deca cycle with winny.  It must be good stuff cause like I said it is a slight discomfort.  The next cycle will be prop EOD, Deca mon & thurs, hcg, a-dex, and nolva for pct.  That's what I meant by nearly eaveryday, at the most I will have three non shot days a week and most weeks are only two days.  

Mudge do you think it would be a good idea to stop the deca two weeks before the prop, that way they will both drop at the same time, to start the pct??


----------



## Mudge (Sep 21, 2004)

Actually R1 a lot of people do run the test/deca that way (dropping it) for those who worry about deca dick. Deca can also recover ones full recovery time, one guy who I would say is gifted athletically (first cycle took him to 280ish 6 foot and LEAN), he took 11 months to recover from a cycle that merely had deca IN IT, his T and sex drive were on the floor for months until he got advice from a doc on HCG/nolvadex use.

I like stacking vs high dose of single drugs but am not really in love with deca save for having joint issues when I was running more accutane (works like winny on the joints). I do love tren though bigtime and that hits me about like deca as far as the testes go.


----------



## Mudge (Sep 21, 2004)

titans13ae said:
			
		

> so how much better is injecting winny than drinking it.



People still argue, some say as much as double, others say no difference at all. Winny tabs can be found dirt cheap, powder is dirt cheap and winny micronized or not is not friendly to staying in suspension, so why bother


----------



## R1pilot (Sep 22, 2004)

Mudge,you were talking about the joint issues.  I had a motorcycle wreck in Kuwait back in Feb.  I really bad pains in my shoulder for quite a while after, I went and saw a doctor and he said it looked like I had some tendon or ligament damage using an ultrasound.  Since I started this cycle of Deca I haven't had any pain.  Would deca have anything to do with that or just coincidence?


----------



## Mudge (Sep 22, 2004)

Could be, I had tendon and joint pains both, glucosamine chondroitin and deca use took that away. I also had to do less bicep work and not on back day.

Winny may aggrivate old pains.


----------



## JerseyDevil (Sep 22, 2004)

Well I'm about to find out.  I had a MINOR problem with my left elbow/forearm.  A nagging injury usually only aggravated by doing skullcrushers and sometimes incline presses.  I took glucosamine chondroitin/msm for about 5 months, at the tail end I did a test prop/winstrol cycle.  Sometimes during the cycle my elbow pain flared up and I attributed that to the winstrol.  Maybe coincidence, but several weeks after the cycle my elbow was so fucked up I couldn't bench, or do any pressing movements at all without inflammation.  Never will do winny again.  I'm about 80% now, even after taking 4 weeks off from pressing movements.  It is far better, but it still gives me problems.

I decided to try a test prop/deca/dbol cycle with the hope that the deca will alleviate the problem.  Going to try 300-400mg/wk of deca along with 150mg eod of prop.

Anyone here know about using Adequen for joint problems?  I had advice that although it is a veterinary product, it is a wonder drug for humans with joint pain.
http://www.entirelypets.com/adeq5mlbot.html


----------



## Mudge (Sep 22, 2004)

DangerousGrounds did some research on it and I think tried using it, Einstein (banned at most if not all boards now for scamming) claims to have used it. Whenever I do skulls again there wont be many sets.


----------



## JerseyDevil (Sep 23, 2004)

Goes4Ever used it at 100mg/wk for 3 weeks to build up in his system, then does a maintanence shot every 4 weeks.  He claims zero elbow pain after 5+ years of chronic joint pain.  

I'll try deca first .


----------



## Mudge (Sep 23, 2004)

I think religious glucosamine chondroitin use should be all most anyone needs but I dunno.


----------



## Evil ANT (Sep 23, 2004)

I also use glucosamine chondroitin regularly for my joints. It does seem to help, but I have a nagging pain in my left wrist that won't go away and acts up quite often. I'm worried winstrol might make it worse. So, maybe I will have to stick to dbol. I'm still undecided about it.


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 23, 2004)

Hey Evil if your joints start to bother you then stop the Winny. I have never read that the joint issue with Winny is anything perminant.


----------



## JerseyDevil (Sep 23, 2004)

I didn't explain that quite right.  I took glucosamine chondroitin/msm for 4 weeks prior to my cycle, during my entire cycle (11 weeks), then a few weeks past.

I have no way of knowing, but I strongly suspect it was winstrol that fucked me up. Evil if you have any joint pain at all, I would steer clear of winny and stick with tried and true dbol.  Save the winny for when your 100% pain free and wanting to cut.

Mudge, are you of the opinion that glucosamine chondroitin is more effective then deca at relieving joint pain?  



> Hey Evil if your joints start to bother you then stop the Winny. I have never read that the joint issue with Winny is anything perminant.


It's one thing to read bro, but if you haven't walked the walk, then it's not always wise to talk the talk.


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 23, 2004)

JD are you suggesting that winstrol causes perminant joint issues? I thought the pain was caused by the joints drying up from the winstrol and that causes more friction. I've read that it causes tendons to dry up and become more likely to break. I have not seen or heard of the joint pains caused by winstrol to be perminant.This is what I've read...I am not claiming to be an expert on winstrol. Just sharing the info I have gathered.


----------



## Mudge (Sep 23, 2004)

JerseyDevil said:
			
		

> Mudge, are you of the opinion that glucosamine chondroitin is more effective then deca at relieving joint pain?



I dunno about that, but I'd rather fix the problem than just fix the symptoms, although both is nice since the real "problem" takes time to fix.


----------



## JerseyDevil (Sep 23, 2004)

TrojanMan60563 said:
			
		

> JD are you suggesting that winstrol causes perminant joint issues? I thought the pain was caused by the joints drying up from the winstrol and that causes more friction. I've read that it causes tendons to dry up and become more likely to break. I have not seen or heard of the joint pains caused by winstrol to be perminant.This is what I've read...I am not claiming to be an expert on winstrol. Just sharing the info I have gathered.


I'm suggesting that 10 weeks after I ceased winny, I can barely bench 175 (for reps) without inflammation...  I was routinely working out with 255-275.  I hope it's NOT permanent, but if you knew beforehand that if you did winny, and was going to be mia for a few months, would you do it?  Sorry TM.  Didn't mean to come down on you.  Pissy mood, plus frustrated about the injury.


----------



## JerseyDevil (Sep 23, 2004)

Mudge said:
			
		

> I dunno about that, but I'd rather fix the problem than just fix the symptoms, although both is nice since the real "problem" takes time to fix.


Absolutely.  But time off ain't doing the trick.


----------



## Evil ANT (Sep 23, 2004)

After reading this, I'll stick to dbol. 

Plus, my chest acne is getting so bad I may have to resort to taking accutane soon. I hear that stuff can be hell on your joints, so combining that with winny probably wouldn't be the smoothest move.


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 24, 2004)

JD no offense taken....We all have our days. TGIF...I too suffer from joint issues, mainly my left shoulder. When I hurt it I went from doing 120lb dumbells 8 times to having pain with 30lb'ers. Now I am back up to 90lb dumbells for 12 reps. So its slowly coming back. I just make sure my form is good for each rep. I really miss doing weighted dips. Thats how I hurt it. I plan on doing winstrol in a future cycle but my plan of attack is to run deca at the same time to try to counter act the winny effects. Do you know if that can work by running them at the same time to kinda balance it out?


----------



## Mudge (Sep 24, 2004)

Evil ANT said:
			
		

> I hear that stuff can be hell on your joints, so combining that with winny probably wouldn't be the smoothest move.



In high doses it sure does, painfull especially if you dont have power steering and drive a stick like I was at the time. I still drive stick (always do) but PS in the car.

Acne will leave behind red marks that can take MOOONTHS to go away, so if you want to be shirtless anytime soon, fix it as fast as you can. Some people are also prone to permanent scarring, thankfully I wasn't, but I wish I attacked it sooner.

Take a look at my lower back and you can see some of the remnants, these are called "macules" and are temporary but like I said, can take forever and then some to go away especially if like me you do not take a lot of time off and aggrivate them all over again. You can scrub and tan all you like, but it all takes time, and the longer you wait the longer you will have them 

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/2433/sort/1/size/medium/cat/500/page/1


----------



## JerseyDevil (Sep 24, 2004)

TrojanMan60563 said:
			
		

> I plan on doing winstrol in a future cycle but my plan of attack is to run deca at the same time to try to counter act the winny effects. Do you know if that can work by running them at the same time to kinda balance it out?


 .  Yep, many people do exactly that and it makes sense. Not sure how much it helps though, since I haven't tried it.

I actually liked winny, before the joint problems that is.  Stacked with test it gives you good lean mass gains without bloat, with a nice pop of strength.  That said, I really think tren stacked with test is a better way to go then winstrol and deca stacked with test.  Tren also gives you good 'dry' keepable mass gains, awesome strength gains, is not 17aa, and is quite a bit cheaper (way cheaper if you homebrew) then winny tabs and deca.


----------



## Evil ANT (Sep 24, 2004)

Thanks for the advice, Mudge. I'm breaking out _bad_ on my chest and shoulders and can't contain the breakouts. I've tried every possible thing (lotions, scrubs, masks, tanning) so I might grab some accutane if I can find any of the damn stuff. I'll only use it as a last resort, but it's looking like I'm going to have to.


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 25, 2004)

Hey JD I am a little leary about home brewing my own Tren. I really want to do it but I just don't wanna mess it up. Plus I've been hearing that people have had harder times getting the pellets. If I could be sure I wouldn't have problems I would try it. Tren can cause anxiety to get worse...so I'm kinda unsure if I can handle Tren. So if I make 100cc of Tren and I can't deal with it, what the hell am I going to do with it?


----------



## JerseyDevil (Sep 25, 2004)

Yeah tren has it's own sides, and if you have anxiety attacks then it may not be a good choice.  Tren acetate though, like test prop, has a short half life and is out of your system quick if you have problems.  You don't have to homebrew tren, you can get it premade.  It's just less expensive if you do. 

What to do with 100ml of tren if you can't handle the sides?  Send it to me, I'll dispose of it for you .


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (Sep 26, 2004)

Hey JD I realize its mucho cheaper to make it myself...thats the attraction. Since I went with prop the short ester really appeals to me in case I have to get off quickly due to anxiety. Maybe for a first go at it I will buy some premade. Its probably worth the extra loot to try it this way first. My Doc has added in Xanax to the already Paxil I was taking, and now I am probably 100% anxiety free. I am going to cut with Trimax for the next 6 weeks and then have a go with prop again to see if I can handle it. If so then I will think about tren for a future cycle.


----------

