# I Don't Hate Jews , I Hate Israel



## Splash Log (Jan 24, 2009)

And more importantly Zionism.

Israel has exploited the idea of identity politics, they've created this idea that if you're Jewish, you MUST support Israel.  Since so many hate their policies, a lot of people conclude that they hate the Jews.  This is sad and is Israel's fault for forcing people to identify with them. 

I hate Israel, not the Jews.  And this is a thread were over time I will educate and intellectually debate the many reasons.


----------



## mcguin (Jan 24, 2009)

I think you need a hobby


----------



## Splash Log (Jan 24, 2009)

mcguin said:


> I think you need a hobby



Thanks I do have a few hobbies, in between I like to spend some time on this message board.  Thanks for responding to the topic at hand.

As I said this is more or less my thesis for this topic.  I will try and elaborate on over time, just not at this minute.  It is a topic I feel passionate about and I wanted to lay out the groundwork for it.  More too come.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 24, 2009)

I'm okay with not only Jews, but also the policies of Israel.


----------



## HialeahChico305 (Jan 24, 2009)

mcguin said:


> I think you need a hobby



I knew this when he sent out emails with a different user name. Either a new hobby or some good pussy.


----------



## mcguin (Jan 24, 2009)

Splash Log said:


> Thanks I do have a few hobbies, in between I like to spend some time on this message board.  Thanks for responding to the topic at hand.
> 
> As I said this is more or less my thesis for this topic.  I will try and elaborate on over time, just not at this minute.  It is a topic I feel passionate about and I wanted to lay out the groundwork for it.  More too come.



i thought you just wanted attention since your post is anything less than entertaining...

p.s.- I'm sure israel doesnt like you either...


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

DOMS said:


> I'm okay with not only Jews, but also the policies of Israel.



i support this


----------



## Splash Log (Jan 24, 2009)

mcguin said:


> i thought you just wanted attention since your post is anything less than entertaining...
> 
> p.s.- I'm sure israel doesnt like you either...



Its meant to be educational, my friend

First you must understand the mindset of the people running the country:
_
"We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel...Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours."_--Rafael Eitan, chief of staff of the Israel Defense Forces, quoted in Yediot Ahronot, April 13, 1983, and The New York Times, April 14, 1983.


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

Maybe we should give the Mexicans Brazil then hate the Brazilian people when they refuse to just fork over their land. 

_Israelis_ are starting to hate Israel and what their politicians are doing in their name.


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

*Israelis Against Israel*

*If you were a captive of the US mind control
policies (i.e. the corporate news media) you'd
believe two things:*

*1. Israel is "defending" itself against the
Palestinians*

*2. All Israelis support their government's
policy of endless war against Palestinian
civilians**.*

*It's this second lie that the US-Israeli media
mafia guards most closely - and desperately hopes
Americans never figure out.*

*Contrary to Israeli war party propaganda in the US, not all Jews and not all Israelis support Israel's Nazi-like conduct in the Occupied Territories...*


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

Splash Log said:


> Its meant to be educational, my friend
> 
> First you must understand the mindset of the people running the country:
> _
> "We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel...Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours."_--Rafael Eitan, chief of staff of the Israel Defense Forces, quoted in Yediot Ahronot, April 13, 1983, and The New York Times, April 14, 1983.



7 million people surrounded by 30 million who want to wipe them out. 

any chance you want to post some of the Islamic leaders inflaming statements stating what they want to do to the Jews? y'now because this thread is about education and all


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> Maybe we should give the Mexicans Brazil then hate the Brazilian people when they refuse to just fork over their land.
> .



This is an extremely simplistic comparison that is not really even valid. 

We didn't do anything. This was a british plan. The UK controlled Palestine. This was started after WW1 and completed by the united nations after WW2.

The biggest mistake of the Arab people was declaring war on Israel after Isreal declared independence. Anyone care to take a look at a map of what was originally given to the Jews? This plan had merits. Multiple wars have left the palestinian people with less and less land.


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

*Israeli bulldozer kills American protester*

*Israeli bulldozer runs over 23-year-old woman*

    Tuesday, March 25, 2003 Posted:   4:19 PM EST (2119 GMT)



*RAFAH, Gaza (CNN) --* *An Israeli bulldozer killed an American woman Sunday who had been protesting its use to destroy Palestinian houses in Rafah.* 
      The woman, Rachel Corrie, 23, of Olympia, Washington, was taken to a hospital, where she died of her injuries. She was a senior at Evergreen State College in Olympia but was not enrolled this quarter, the school said. 

"She was raising her hands and yelling at the bulldozer driver to stop," Arraf said. "The bulldozer driver paid no attention. ... He buried Rachel with dirt, which ended up, obviously, knocking her down. Then he ran over her, and then reversed and ran over her again."


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> This is an extremely simplistic comparison that is not really even valid.
> 
> We didn't do anything. This was a british plan. The UK controlled Palestine. This was started after WW1 and completed by the united nations after WW2.
> 
> The biggest mistake of the Arab people was declaring war on Israel after Isreal declared independence. Anyone care to take a look at a map of what was originally given to the Jews? This plan had merits. Multiple wars have left the palestinian people with less and less land.




i know, my point is who had the authority to give away someone else's land? if you listen to the Israeli's protesting against the Israeli military actions today they are saying this is not a military protecting or representing it's people but a military endangering it's people with it's greed for land it has no right to take.


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions


----------



## DOMS (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> *Israeli bulldozer kills American protester*
> 
> *Israeli bulldozer runs over 23-year-old woman*
> 
> ...



The propaganda shit you read and don't understand is astounding.

This is the second dumb ass no nothing Seattle-living American that's been hit by a bulldozer.

If you run out in front of a very load bulldozer pushing a small hill's worth of dirt, the driver isn't going to see you and you're going to get run over.  If not because of simple physics, it'll happen because you're a dumb ass.


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

DOMS said:


> The propaganda shit you read and don't understand is astounding.
> 
> This is the second dumb ass no nothing Seattle-living American that's been hit by a bulldozer.
> 
> If you run out in front of a very load bulldozer pushing a small hill's worth of dirt, the driver isn't going to see you and you're going to get run over.  If not because of simple physics, it'll happen because you're a dumb ass.




*Joseph Smith, 20,     a student and a fellow activist from Missouri, said: “She was sitting in the path of     the bulldozer. The bulldozer saw her and ran over her. She ended up completely underneath     it. He absolutely knew she was there.”

*maybe ray charles was driving it* 

*
i suppose the military people over there that are refusing to follow orders they consider to be war crimes have no idea what is going on either? maybe they too were raised in Seattle?  it's easy to ignore things you don't want to see.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> i know, my point is who had the authority to give away someone else's land?



Well at the time the UK had the mandate over the lands of Palestine.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> *Joseph Smith, 20,     a student and a fellow activist from Missouri, said: ???She was sitting in the path of     the bulldozer. The bulldozer saw her and ran over her. She ended up completely underneath     it. He absolutely knew she was there.???
> 
> *


*

Seems to me playing chicken with a bulldozer is not very smart.*


----------



## PreMier (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> *Israeli bulldozer kills American protester*
> 
> *Israeli bulldozer runs over 23-year-old woman*
> 
> ...


sorry but i find this funny.  seriously.. call me cold or whatever, but any person dumb enough to sit in front of a very large bulldozer or tank or whatever deserves to die.  wtf was this dumbass thinking?  who are her parents? seriously..


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> Seems to me playing chicken with a bulldozer is not very smart.



Seems to me defending a military that has no qualms killing Americans isn't very smart either.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> Seems to me defending a military that has no qualms killing Americans isn't very smart either.






This was in Israel. American or not this person chose to go to another country and stand in front of a bulldozer. I'm all for protecting Americans, except from themselves. 

I would consider this story more of a suicide attempt really


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

PreMier said:


> sorry but i find this funny.  seriously.. call me cold or whatever, but any person dumb enough to sit in front of a very large bulldozer or tank or whatever deserves to die.  wtf was this dumbass thinking?  who are her parents? seriously..



i think for some it's just impossible to imagine the depravity in the minds of other humans. she had a regard for human life and expected the driver would too. she was sitting down eating her meals with Palestinian families every day, watching them play with their children. She was thinking they were worth defending, that they simply didn't deserve to have their homes plowed under. 

she was maybe thinking the Geneva Conventions actually mattered. here in the U.S. we expect things to matter too, like our constitutional rights. more and more often they don't and people willing to lay down their lives, literally, to protest important doctrines being ignored get called dumbasses. 

i guess it's ok to ignore the rules when it's someone you don't like that's targeted. when our turn comes who will stand up for those who remained silent when they watched the same crimes happen to another people? will it be okay when someone targets our women and children claiming well their marines live amoung them? how loud will we bleat when it's our homes getting plowed under?

and yea she should have been on her feet ready to run.  she was there long enough to have learned something. i think she expected her being American would protect her.


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> This was in Israel. American or not this person chose to go to another country and stand in front of a bulldozer. I'm all for protecting Americans, except from themselves.
> 
> I would consider this story more of a suicide attempt really



so you're a good christian boy laughing at a woman who died because she wanted peace. jesus would be so proud.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> so you're a good christian boy laughing at a woman who died because she wanted peace. jesus would be so proud.



i'm a good Christian boy who laughs at the idea of a girl committing suicide to bring peace to the middle east.

This problem has enough stupid people committing suicide. We need people who will live for their ideals, not die for them.


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> i'm a good Christian boy who laughs at the idea of a girl committing suicide to bring peace to the middle east.
> 
> This problem has enough stupid people committing suicide. We need people who will live for their ideals, not die for them.



wwjd? didn't he die for his?


----------



## danzik17 (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> wwjd? didn't he die for his?



Bingo.  Christianity today has little to do with what it was founded on.  Anyone thinking differently is just kidding themselves.


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

if jesus lived today most "Christians" wouldn't give him the time of day. they would see him as a dirty, homeless, crazy person and step around him sleeping on the sidewalk while they were on their way to give their tithing to the church.


----------



## KelJu (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> This was in Israel. American or not this person chose to go to another country and stand in front of a bulldozer. I'm all for protecting Americans, except from themselves.
> 
> I would consider this story more of a suicide attempt really



I have to agree. Your American citizenship means squat when you aren't on US soil. Sorry, but that bitch was stupid, and hardly worth making the news.


----------



## PreMier (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> if jesus lived today most "Christians" wouldn't give him the time of day. they would see him as a dirty, homeless, crazy person and step around him sleeping on the sidewalk while they were on their way to give their tithing to the church.


you are fucking goin overboard.

get in check


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

PreMier said:


> you are fucking goin overboard.
> 
> get in check




seriously, if someone today claimed to be the son of god and lived like jesus did, preached what he did, who would believe him? people claim to believe in a virgin birth... if Mary were pregnant today who would believe her? so many people live as if they believe things they would in reality find impossible to believe today. that's sad but it's true.


----------



## PreMier (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> seriously, if someone today claimed to be the son of god and lived like jesus did, preached what he did, who would believe him? people claim to believe in a virgin birth... if Mary were pregnant today who would believe her? so many people live as if they believe things they would in reality find impossible to believe today. that's sad but it's true.



thats not going to happen.  it wasnt part of the 'plan' if you will.  everything happened in a specific order for specific reasons.  the questions that your asking are irrelevant.  

plus you seem to be attacking people and their personal beliefs.. all because they dont agree with you about isreal, and some girl that sacrificed herself for what?  a spot in the paper?  i never even heard of her until today, and that was 6 years ago.


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

PreMier said:


> thats not going to happen.  it wasnt part of the 'plan' if you will.  everything happened in a specific order for specific reasons.  the questions that your asking are irrelevant.
> 
> plus you seem to be attacking people and their personal beliefs.. all because they dont agree with you about isreal, and some girl that sacrificed herself for what?  a spot in the paper?  i never even heard of her until today, and that was 6 years ago.




i just find it frustrating that members of the Israeli military are protesting it's actions but people here are still all gung ho supporters disregarding what people who live there have to say. men in uniform there are refusing orders they feel are criminal and a danger to the people of Israel. something is very wrong.


----------



## danzik17 (Jan 24, 2009)

PreMier said:


> thats not going to happen.  it wasnt part of the 'plan' if you will.  everything happened in a specific order for specific reasons.  the questions that your asking are irrelevant.
> 
> plus you seem to be attacking people and their personal beliefs.. all because they dont agree with you about isreal, and some girl that sacrificed herself for what?  a spot in the paper?  i never even heard of her until today, and that was 6 years ago.



Honest question then - it's the same one that I ask all religious people when they bring up the "plan".

Are terrorist attacks part of the plan?  Is genocide part of the plan?  Is pedophilia part of the plan?  If someone gets drunk and kills a happy family of five in a car accident, was that part of the plan? If everything is pre-ordained, then how are such horrible things allowed to happen?


----------



## Splash Log (Jan 24, 2009)

PreMier said:


> sorry but i find this funny.  seriously.. call me cold or whatever, but any person dumb enough to sit in front of a very large bulldozer or tank or whatever deserves to die.  wtf was this dumbass thinking?  who are her parents? seriously..



yea this guy was a dumbass too


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

danzik17 said:


> Honest question then - it's the same one that I ask all religious people when they bring up the "plan".
> 
> Are terrorist attacks part of the plan?  Is genocide part of the plan?  Is pedophilia part of the plan?  If someone gets drunk and kills a happy family of five in a car accident, was that part of the plan? If everything is pre-ordained, then how are such horrible things allowed to happen?



you're understanding of the plan is flawed. God having a plan for his children does not take away from the freedom of choice. Freedom of choice is an integral part of the plan. God does not predestine a man to pedophilia. he does allow tragedy to enter the world so that we may learn through experience right and wrong.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> seriously, if someone today claimed to be the son of god and lived like jesus did, preached what he did, who would believe him? people claim to believe in a virgin birth... if Mary were pregnant today who would believe her? so many people live as if they believe things they would in reality find impossible to believe today. that's sad but it's true.



I absolutely disagree with you. If Jesus were to come to the earth and live among us as a mortal just like he did with the Jews 2,000 years ago, the majority of us would be able to recognize him and would accept him.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

danzik17 said:


> Bingo.  Christianity today has little to do with what it was founded on.  Anyone thinking differently is just kidding themselves.



that is the most ridiculous bogus crap.


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> I absolutely disagree with you. If Jesus were to come to the earth and live among us as a mortal just like he did with the Jews 2,000 years ago, the majority of us would be able to recognize him and would accept him.



it would be nice if that were true but i don't think it is. i think he would be called insane and his biggest critic would be the catholic church because he would be a threat to them.


----------



## HialeahChico305 (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> he does allow tragedy to enter the world so that we may learn through experience right and wrong.




He allows tragedy to enter? I wonder when he will come to his senses and basically shut the door and tragedy . especially on infants and inocent little kids all around the world.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> it would be nice if that were true but i don't think it is. i think he would be called insane and his biggest critic would be the catholic church because he would be a threat to them.



Would you follow him?


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> Would you follow him?



i'm not sure. i find it really hard to swallow that an omnipotent god will watch a little girl be raped night after night after night and not give her rapist cancer but a person who lives a good honest life can be struck down... there are a lot of really good people in the world but all in all it seems like god is not minding his flock.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

HialeahChico305 said:


> He allows tragedy to enter? I wonder when he will come to his senses and basically shut the door and tragedy . especially on infants and inocent little kids all around the world.



So you want God to end all tragedy then? to stop all evil? Without evil, or bad how would we know what is good and pure? What kind of God would he be if he took away our freedom of choice? I don't think that God wants mindless zombie followers. I think he has grander plans for his greatest creations.

How much more fulfilling is it for him and us to learn the difference of right and wrong and choose to follow the path he wants us to follow of our own free will?


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> So you want God to end all tragedy then? to stop all evil? Without evil, or bad how would we know what is good and pure? What kind of God would he be if he took away our freedom of choice? I don't think that God wants mindless zombie followers. I think he has grander plans for his greatest creations.
> 
> How much more fulfilling is it for him and us to learn the difference of right and wrong and choose to follow the path he wants us to follow of our own free will?




i'm sure the 4 year old girls getting an 8 inch cock crammed down their throats by their grampy or an uncles up their ass etc every night will be so comforted by the fact god is witnessing the free will of these men and sacrificing THEM for HIS fullfillment. 

oh thank you great father in the sky for all this free will. 

where is the childs right to be free from a life of hell? wtf? seriously. religious people will go so far out on a limb to explain why evil exists and then laugh at some poor woman who had enough love in her heart to try n actually stop a little bit of it. it's like they don't even believe their own philosophies.


----------



## HialeahChico305 (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> So you want God to end all tragedy then? to stop all evil? Without evil, or bad how would we know what is good and pure? What kind of God would he be if he took away our freedom of choice? I don't think that God wants mindless zombie followers. I think he has grander plans for his greatest creations.
> 
> How much more fulfilling is it for him and us to learn the difference of right and wrong and choose to follow the path he wants us to follow of our own free will?



I don't want god to do anything, Because I doubt his existence . Evil is around the world period, its just the way it is. I've personally have learned from my mistakes and tragedies at some point in my life, and to think god allowed this could be true. But to say God allows a little kids to get raped and killed? I doubt it, If there was a "God" he will most definitely stop this IMO of course.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

HialeahChico305 said:


> I don't want god to do anything, Because I doubt his existence . Evil is around the world period, its just the way it is. I've personally have learned from my mistakes and tragedies at some point in my life, and to think god allowed this could be true. But to say God allows a little kids to get raped and killed? I doubt it, If there was a "God" he will most definitely stop this IMO of course.



So there should be limited freedom of choice? He should allow us a little bit of choice so that we can learn, but if it is big then he should stop us from doing wrong?


----------



## Irons77 (Jan 24, 2009)

HialeahChico305 said:


> I don't want god to do anything, Because I doubt his existence . Evil is around the world period, its just the way it is. I've personally have learned from my mistakes and tragedies at some point in my life, and to think god allowed this could be true. But to say God allows a little kids to get raped and killed? I doubt it, If there was a "God" he will most definitely stop this IMO of course.



Nobody knows what God has in store for these people that do this type of shit either, when they pass on


----------



## HialeahChico305 (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> So there should be limited freedom of choice? He should allow us a little bit of choice so that we can learn, but if it is big then he should stop us from doing wrong?



Bio-Chem I just admitted in doubting his existence, that why I don't expect anything. But If I was a firm believer of God I would say yes, He should interfere in those situations. Don't you? I know you think part of the "plan" its freedom of choice, but you think its correct that he doesnt come save some innocent little kid getting raped? or tortured?


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> i'm sure the 4 year old girls getting an 8 inch cock crammed down their throats by their grampy or an uncles up their ass etc every night will be so comforted by the fact god is witnessing the free will of these men and sacrificing THEM for HIS fullfillment.
> 
> oh thank you great father in the sky for all this free will.
> 
> where is the childs right to be free from a life of hell? wtf? seriously. religious people will go so far out on a limb to explain why evil exists and then laugh at some poor woman who had enough love in her heart to try n actually stop a little bit of it. it's like they don't even believe their own philosophies.



this isn't going out on a limb to explain anything. it makes perfect sense why an all powerful God will choose to allow evil to enter the world. 

Stop for a second and think what your life would be like if every choice you made was determined for you. how happy would you be if you were not able to raise your children the way you wanted, but the way God chose for you? I'm sure you will be the first to say how much you have learned raising your children. Now take all of that knowledge away. learning from mistakes, ours and others is how we grow. it is the purpose of Gods plan. Without it we would forever be like children.

The example of the woman you use is not a good one in my opinion. I have already stated that we have enough people committing suicide over the problems in Israel. If you want to effect change follow the lives of Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr. These men did not commit suicide for their beliefs, yet effected great change by the way they lived. I find the woman committing suicide under a bulldozer to be a waste.


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> this isn't going out on a limb to explain anything. it makes perfect sense why an all powerful God will choose to allow evil to enter the world.
> 
> Stop for a second and think what your life would be like if every choice you made was determined for you. how happy would you be if you were not able to raise your children the way you wanted, but the way God chose for you? I'm sure you will be the first to say how much you have learned raising your children. Now take all of that knowledge away. learning from mistakes, ours and others is how we grow. it is the purpose of Gods plan. Without it we would forever be like children.
> 
> The example of the woman you use is not a good one in my opinion. I have already stated that we have enough people committing suicide over the problems in Israel. If you want to effect change follow the lives of Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr. These men did not commit suicide for their beliefs, yet effected great change by the way they lived. I find the woman committing suicide under a bulldozer to be a waste.



there is no perfect sense to a god that could stop such atrocities allowing them instead. he could make sex with children not an appealing idea without removing free will. why couldn't those guys just rape each other? your god is not very creative for such a genius. and if Christians don't hunger for a perfect world why "heaven"?


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

HialeahChico305 said:


> Bio-Chem I just admitted in doubting his existence, that why I don't expect anything. But If I was a firm believer of God I would say yes, He should interfere in those situations. Don't you? I know you think part of the "plan" its freedom of choice, but you think its correct that he doesnt come save some innocent little kid getting raped? or tortured?



I think everything God does is correct. Without it he would cease to be God. In my limited understanding I of course must question it. This does not change his existence or the truth of his plan.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> there is no perfect sense to a god that could stop such atrocities allowing them instead. he could make sex with children not an appealing idea without removing free will. why couldn't those guys just rape each other? your god is not very creative for such a genius. and if Christians don't hunger for a perfect world why "heaven"?



I think everyone hungers for a perfect world. that is why you have these questions. Perfection will come. it takes time.

and I feel pretty confident that he did make sex with children an unappealing idea. As well as rape. I have no desire to have sex with a child, and i doubt you do as well. God did not make men rape children, and he certainly did not give them the desire to do so. 

It kind of sucks that God gets blamed so much for humanities problems.


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> I think everyone hungers for a perfect world. that is why you have these questions. Perfection will come. it takes time.
> 
> and I feel pretty confident that he did make sex with children an unappealing idea. As well as rape. I have no desire to have sex with a child, and i doubt you do as well. God did not make men rape children, and he certainly did not give them the desire to do so.
> 
> It kind of sucks that God gets blamed so much for humanities problems.




i wonder, if god is real and we could have his power and witness all he does for 1 day what actions would our hearts direct us to take? seems to me our justice would be more humane than his. 

in my late twenties i met a girl who endured horrific sexual abuse, how could anyone man or god just bear witness? especially a god? it just seems to me to negate the possibility of a loving god. 

people don't let their pets tear each other up. to keep them from harming each other, does that take away their free will? no.


----------



## HialeahChico305 (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> I think everything God does is correct. Without it he would cease to be God. In my limited understanding I of course must question it. This does not change his existence or the truth of his plan.



This is a never ending argument, Because at the end of the day any Firm believer of God fails to show proof and end my questioning of the almighty "God". .


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> i wonder, if god is real and we could have his power and witness all he does for 1 day what actions would our hearts direct us to take? seems to me our justice would be more humane than his.
> 
> in my late twenties i met a girl who endured horrific sexual abuse, how could anyone man or god just bear witness? especially a god? it just seems to me to negate the possibility of a loving god.
> 
> people don't let their pets tear each other up. to keep them from harming each other, does that take away their free will? no.



We are not Gods pets, we are his children. have you ever let your children do something even though you know that it will turn out bad for them?

If we were to have Gods power we would also have his knowledge. Knowledge of the past, present, and future that we are incapable of comprehending right now.

What you are in essence arguing is that you know better than God with less knowledge. This seems like a very childish thing to do. and we are in fact children.


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> We are not Gods pets, we are his children. have you ever let your children do something even though you know that it will turn out bad for them?




like watch one mercilessly rape the other?

i don't want a "father" who will stand by and witness my rape for the greater good of man. i want a "father" who will love and protect me. why would i trust one who chose to do any less?


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> like watch one mercilessly rape the other?
> 
> i don't want a "father" who will stand by and witness my rape for the greater good of man. i want a "father" who will love and protect me. why would i trust one who chose to do any less?



you didn't answer the question. and now you are just being stubborn. that is fine. none of us wants to accept the terrible things that go on in the world. It's how I know you are a good person. I'll tell you this though. being angry at and holding a grudge against God, or his followers doesn't bring you happiness, or comfort.


----------



## danzik17 (Jan 24, 2009)

My point is that you can't prove there is a plan anymore than you can prove there is a god.  For all you know, the flying spaghetti monster really is our magical overlord.

Also, how can you equate a parent letting a child touch a hot stove to learn that it's bad to something like the genocide happening in Darfur?  Does that make any rational sense?


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> you didn't answer the question. and now you are just being stubborn. that is fine. none of us wants to accept the terrible things that go on in the world. It's how I know you are a good person. I'll tell you this though. being angry at and holding a grudge against God, or his followers doesn't bring you happiness, or comfort.




i don't hold a grudge against his followers. between the horsecrap in the bible there's a lot of wisdom. this same wisdom is also to be found though in _many_ of the worlds religions, myths, and folklore. 

i take comfort in knowing there _are_ good and decent people in the world and i just really do not believe good and decent belong to one single religion or people i believe those things are to be found scattered among all men.


----------



## Chubby (Jan 24, 2009)

danzik17 said:


> My point is that you can't prove there is a plan anymore than you can prove there is a god.


There is no such thing as plan.   Everybody is responsible for their own action.  If the problems of the world are created by humans, then they can be solved by humans.  There is no imaginary being is  coming to clean our mess.  People should get over with it.


----------



## Chubby (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> i don't hold a grudge against his followers.


Me too, but I don't like it when they try to shove their god down people's throat.


----------



## danzik17 (Jan 24, 2009)

chobby192 said:


> There is no such thing as plan.   Everybody is responsible for their own action.  If the problems of the world are created by humans, then they can be solved by humans.  There is no imaginary being is  coming to clean our mess.  People should get over with it.



Jeez, just blow my point right out in the open there.  Damn it!  Now it's not hidden anymore!


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

danzik17 said:


> My point is that you can't prove there is a plan anymore than you can prove there is a god.  For all you know, the flying spaghetti monster really is our magical overlord.
> 
> Also, how can you equate a parent letting a child touch a hot stove to learn that it's bad to something like the genocide happening in Darfur?  Does that make any rational sense?



when speaking about the Creator I find the analogy, though admittedly simplistic to absolutely make rational sense.

I'm not trying to prove anything to you. If you believe or not does nothing to shake my faith or strengthen it. My relationship with God is completely separate from anything you might believe.

And it is for all YOU know there might be a flying spaghetti monster. For what I know there is a God, He is our father, and there is plan that he has for us.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

chobby192 said:


> Me too, but I don't like it when they try to shove their god down people's throat.



no one is shoving anything down people's throats. at least not in this thread.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> i don't hold a grudge against his followers. between the horsecrap in the bible there's a lot of wisdom. this same wisdom is also to be found though in _many_ of the worlds religions, myths, and folklore.
> 
> i take comfort in knowing there _are_ good and decent people in the world and i just really do not believe good and decent belong to one single religion or people i believe those things are to be found scattered among all men.



No one here has said good and decent is belonging to one single religion. Where are you getting this stuff?


----------



## Chubby (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> My relationship with God is completely separate from anything you might believe.


Is your relationship with God is as same as kids relationship with Santa?



> For what I know there is a God, He is our father,


No. Your father is the man who married your mother.


----------



## danzik17 (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> No one here has said good and decent is belonging to one single religion. Where are you getting this stuff?



That one's easy - it was said earlier than America is the greatest nation because of it's Christian foundings.  That's clearly not true if you believe that decent people exist outside of Christianity.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

chobby192 said:


> There is no such thing as plan.   Everybody is responsible for their own action.  If the problems of the world are created by humans, then they can be solved by humans.  There is no imaginary being is  coming to clean our mess.  People should get over with it.



Everybody is responsible for their own actions. I agree. No one has said otherwise.

 the problems of the world will hardly be solved by humans. the united nations, or any other group is not going to solve genocide in the world. No peace plan is ever going to create an atmosphere where palestinians and Jews suddenly live in peace


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> No one here has said good and decent is belonging to one single religion. Where are you getting this stuff?



from the inability of the world's diverse religions to live in peace and acceptance of one another. from our president getting flak for acknowledging religious diversity here.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

danzik17 said:


> That one's easy - it was said earlier than America is the greatest nation because of it's Christian foundings.  That's clearly not true if you believe that decent people exist outside of Christianity.



those two statements are not as mutually exclusive as you argue.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

chobby192 said:


> Is your relationship with God is as same as kids relationship with Santa?
> 
> 
> No. Your father is the man who married your mother.



the first part is just stupid. don't talk if you're not even going to pretend intelligence.

and i think a lot of people here can find fault with your logic that a father is simply the man who married your mother.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> from the inability of the world's diverse religions to live in peace and acceptance of one another. from our president getting flak for acknowledging religious diversity here.



I don't feel that either of your examples show this


----------



## Chubby (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> Everybody is responsible for their own actions. I agree. No one has said otherwise.
> 
> the problems of the world will hardly be solved by humans. the united nations, or any other group is not going to solve genocide in the world. No peace plan is ever going to create an atmosphere where palestinians and Jews suddenly live in peace


It can be solved by humans, but they won't because of the greed and corruption.  It is not the plan of god; it is result of our own selfish action driven by ignorant mind.


----------



## danzik17 (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> those two statements are not as mutually exclusive as you argue.



Please enlighten me then.  Why isn't Britain the greatest nation since they have long been Christian/Catholic?  Why isn't Italy the greatest nation since they have Rome and the Pope?

Why not the code of Hammurabi?  Sure an eye for an eye is harsh, but surely it prevented such immoral things as murder and thievery?


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

chobby192 said:


> It can be solved by humans, but they won't because of the greed and corruption.  It is not the plan of god; it is result of our own selfish action driven by ignorant mind.



you're funny. I hope you stick around


----------



## Chubby (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> and i think a lot of people here can find fault with your logic that a father is simply the man who married your mother.


Did god have sex with your mother?, if not then he is not your father.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Jan 24, 2009)

DOMS said:


> I'm okay with not only Jews, but also the policies of Israel.



What *specific* Israeli policies.

You make a lot of generalizations but rarely note details.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

danzik17 said:


> Please enlighten me then.  Why isn't Britain the greatest nation since they have long been Christian/Catholic?  Why isn't Italy the greatest nation since they have Rome and the Pope?
> 
> Why not the code of Hammurabi?  Sure an eye for an eye is harsh, but surely it prevented such immoral things as murder and thievery?



Give me the criteria for defining the greatest nation and I think the US will stand at the top of that list. When you look at the root cause for these things in the US I believe it will be found in our Christian founding and heritage.

I don't think that the code of hammurabi is a nation. I don't think that babylon, the empire that the code of hammurabi started out in goes into discussion of current "greatest nations" but thats just me.

and I seriously doubt that the code of hammurabi prevented murder and thievery. It may have prevented the repeated act by the guilty individual punished, but I doubt it prevented many initial acts of thievery or murder.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

chobby192 said:


> Did god have sex with your mother?, if not then he is not your father.



please stop child. you are embarrassing yourself.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 24, 2009)

well im off to bed. Its been fun.


----------



## danzik17 (Jan 24, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> Give me the criteria for defining the greatest nation and I think the US will stand at the top of that list. When you look at the root cause for these things in the US I believe it will be found in our Christian founding and heritage.
> 
> I don't think that the code of hammurabi is a nation. I don't think that babylon, the empire that the code of hammurabi started out in goes into discussion of current "greatest nations" but thats just me.
> 
> and I seriously doubt that the code of hammurabi prevented murder and thievery. It may have prevented the repeated act by the guilty individual punished, but I doubt it prevented many initial acts of thievery or murder.



So you don't think it had anything to do with a two very large oceans giving us a strategic defensive advantage and separating us from the political wars of Europe (at the time)?  Nor do you think that the Constitution is the primary driver of our greatness?

Surely a nation of Christian heritage and beliefs couldn't perpetrate something like the Trail of Tears?

You also didn't address my question as to why those other nations who long followed Christianity failed to be/remain the greatest nation on Earth.

Getting late so this is my last response for tonight.  Ciao.


----------



## maniclion (Jan 25, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> The example of the woman you use is not a good one in my opinion. I have already stated that we have enough people committing suicide over the problems in Israel. If you want to effect change follow the lives of Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr. These men did not commit suicide for their beliefs, yet effected great change by the way they lived. I find the woman committing suicide under a bulldozer to be a waste.


In a way Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr. did give their lives same as the girl in front of the bulldozer.  They all made their stands knowing that their was a possibility someone on the other side would want them dead yet they stood their ground and in the end each one was murdered.....


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 25, 2009)

maniclion said:


> In a way Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr. did give their lives same as the girl in front of the bulldozer.  They all made their stands knowing that their was a possibility someone on the other side would want them dead yet they stood their ground and in the end each one was murdered.....



murdered and suicide are two different things. there is no comparison to what these two men accomplished and what this woman needlessly sacrificed her life for.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 25, 2009)

danzik17 said:


> So you don't think it had anything to do with a two very large oceans giving us a strategic defensive advantage and separating us from the political wars of Europe (at the time)?  Nor do you think that the Constitution is the primary driver of our greatness?
> 
> Surely a nation of Christian heritage and beliefs couldn't perpetrate something like the Trail of Tears?
> 
> ...



The very large ocean that separated us from europe was also the ocean our for fathers needed to cross in order to find religious freedom and practice Christianity as they chose. They were forced to leave the Christianity of europe behind.

The Consitution. The Consitution in my mind is a uniquely Christian, American Christian, document that has been copied multiple times over and is uniquely successful here in the United States. A look at the framers of this Constitution, at the founders of this nation and I find it impossible to separate their successes from their Christian faith.

the trail of tears? I didn't say we were perfect. I said we were the best. If you really want to sit here and argue which countries have the worst skeletons in the closet be my guest, but I don't really think that it is a beneficial use of anyones time.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 25, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> the trail of tears? I didn't say we were perfect. I said we were the best. If you really want to sit here and argue which countries have the worst skeletons in the closet be my guest, but I don't really think that it is a beneficial use of anyones time.



Your post sparked a rather interesting thought.

Look at all the countries around the way based on religion.  Now, based on each religion, look at how those countries are doing.

How fares the average Muslim country (e.g., Iran)?  The average Buddhist country (e.g. China)?  The average Christian country (e.g. The US)?  It's not hard to see the strata of that grouping.

Now, consider those countries without religion.  You'll find these in Africa.  These are among the worst countries on the planet.  Yeah for no religion...


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 25, 2009)

DOMS said:


> Your post sparked a rather interesting thought.
> 
> Look at all the countries around the way based on religion.  Now, based on each religion, look at how those countries are doing.
> 
> ...



Good call. I didn't even think of that. looking at the countries that have tried to build a nation denying God all together is interesting. Any of the Communistic countries. (anyone care to look up the numbers of people killed under Stalin or PolPot?) hell even the French revolution. I would love someone here to compare/contrast the American Revolution with the French Revolution. Same time period, very different results.


----------



## Chubby (Jan 25, 2009)

As a kid, I used to believe in superman, batman, santa, disney land, tarzan,etc.  Is god created by human mind?  Did humans creat the god or the god created humans?


----------



## Splash Log (Jan 25, 2009)

Was going to actually make some post about Israel and how a feel about them but your fucks have managed to drag into some fucking religious creationism tub of shit.


----------



## danzik17 (Jan 25, 2009)

Splash Log said:


> Was going to actually make some post about Israel and how a feel about them but your fucks have managed to drag into some fucking religious creationism tub of shit.





Arguing about something that has no real answer is more interesting than listening to people whine about Conservatives or Liberals like babies.


----------



## Chubby (Jan 25, 2009)

I just hope there will be god waiting for them when they die; otherwise, they will be so mad at themselves for being so stupid all their lives.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Jan 25, 2009)

No answer....no surprise there.

We're waiting.


----------



## PreMier (Jan 25, 2009)

chobby192 said:


> I just hope there will be god waiting for them when they die; otherwise, they will be so mad at themselves for being so stupid all their lives.


you think people are being stupid for believing in a god?  grow up.. the more and more i read your posts, the dumber i get.


----------



## Will Brink (Jan 25, 2009)

Splash Log said:


> And more importantly Zionism.
> 
> Israel has exploited the idea of identity politics, they've created this idea that if you're Jewish, you MUST support Israel.  Since so many hate their policies, a lot of people conclude that they hate the Jews.  This is sad and is Israel's fault for forcing people to identify with them.
> 
> I hate Israel, not the Jews.  And this is a thread were over time I will educate and intellectually debate the many reasons.



There has been 800 deaths or so of palestinians after they sent much rockets into Israel, and the world is horrified by these deaths. Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of civilians are being killed in places like the Congo. But it's not just people caught up between the fighting, it's systematic killing and regular wide spread torture of civilians, especially women. And by women, I mean 6 month old infants being raped by gangs until they die. Roving troops sent into a village to rape all the women and little girls for the specific intent of giving them AIDs and terrorizing the population, and that's not even the worst tails I could tell... Atrocities at levels the Israel/palestinian conflict look like a school yard fight. Where is the worlds outrage over this? I gonna sound really jaded here, but is it because it's "only" happening to black people? Congo lacks strategic value, so who gives a fuc%? Africa is a mess, but so is the Middle East, and yet "we" persist in making attempts to change it. 

It's only a bunch of black people with no  oil right???!! WTF? There's some people over there in bad need of lead poisoning. 

Give this short NPR program a listen...

Group Fights Rape In Democratic Republic Of Congo

Weekend Edition Saturday, January 24, 2009 · Rape ??? as much as guns or knives ??? has become a savage weapon in the civil wars of Congo. Hundreds of thousands of women reportedly have been systematically sexually attacked during the conflict.

Congolese rebel leader Laurent Nkunda was arrested in Rwanda on Friday. Groups such as Human Rights Watch have said that soldiers under his command have been responsible for some of the widespread violence against women in the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

NPR's Scott Simon talks with Eve Ensler, playwright and activist, and Dr. Denis Mukwege, the founder of a hospital in Congo that's helping victims of rape and mutilation, about their upcoming tour to raise awareness of what's happening to women and girls in Congo.

Listen to the program on NPR here:

Group Fights Rape In Democratic Republic Of Congo : NPR

I'm disgusted the Israel/Palast gets the attention it does.


----------



## KelJu (Jan 25, 2009)

PreMier said:


> you are fucking goin overboard.
> 
> get in check



I agree with her 100%. Jesus was awesome. I don't know about the whole son of god thing, but Jesus as a man, embodied everything that was pure and beautiful about spirituality. Most of the modern day Christians that I run into or see on TV don't seem to embody his core values so much. 

I don't think Jesus would see eye to eye with any of the modern day conservative christian leaders. Now, I know you don't believe the same things as people like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robinson, or at least I hope you don't. But, those people are representing you, and those people have generated more hatred towards religion than any other factor. 

You just can;t say things like God loves America more than the rest of the world. You can't say things like god hates fag and is sending them to hell. Well, you can say things like that and people do, but they lose all credibility. It sure as fuck doesn't help your cause.


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 25, 2009)

WillBrink said:


> There has been 800 deaths or so of palestinians after they sent much rockets into Israel, and the world is horrified by these deaths. Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of civilians are being killed in places like the Congo. But it's not just people caught up between the fighting, it's systematic killing and regular wide spread torture of civilians, especially women. And by women, I mean 6 month old infants being raped by gangs until they die. Roving troops sent into a village to rape all the women and little girls for the specific intent of giving them AIDs and terrorizing the population, and that's not even the worst tails I could tell... Atrocities at levels the Israel/palestinian conflict look like a school yard fight. Where is the worlds outrage over this? I gonna sound really jaded here, but is it because it's "only" happening to black people? Congo lacks strategic value, so who gives a fuc%? Africa is a mess, but so is the Middle East, and yet "we" persist in making attempts to change it.
> 
> It's only a bunch of black people with no  oil right???!! WTF? There's some people over there in bad need of lead poisoning.
> 
> ...



Well said.


----------



## KelJu (Jan 25, 2009)

WillBrink said:


> There has been 800 deaths or so of palestinians after they sent much rockets into Israel, and the world is horrified by these deaths. Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of civilians are being killed in places like the Congo. But it's not just people caught up between the fighting, it's systematic killing and regular wide spread torture of civilians, especially women. And by women, I mean 6 month old infants being raped by gangs until they die. Roving troops sent into a village to rape all the women and little girls for the specific intent of giving them AIDs and terrorizing the population, and that's not even the worst tails I could tell... Atrocities at levels the Israel/palestinian conflict look like a school yard fight. Where is the worlds outrage over this? I gonna sound really jaded here, but is it because it's "only" happening to black people? Congo lacks strategic value, so who gives a fuc%? Africa is a mess, but so is the Middle East, and yet "we" persist in making attempts to change it.
> 
> It's only a bunch of black people with no  oil right???!! WTF? There's some people over there in bad need of lead poisoning.
> 
> ...



Truth overload! 

But it doesn't surprise me. There are a lot of American Jews with a lot of money and power. Israel is part of the in-crowd by association.


----------



## maniclion (Jan 25, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> murdered and suicide are two different things. there is no comparison to what these two men accomplished and what this woman needlessly sacrificed her life for.


Both men were killed standing up to an idea, those who they were standing up against were bulldozers of power.  Ghandi was beaten multiple times in South Africa any of those times he could have died, remember he also almost died when he fasted for the Muslims to be allowed to stay in India and for Indian Hindis and Pakistani Muslims to stop fighting....
King Jr. knew that he was a target for the Klan and for any of the white men who hated what he was doing.  He went to Memphis despite a bomb threat on his plane, his last speech even shows that he knew his life was in grave danger but he kept on doing what he felt he had to do.  "I just want to do God's will. And He's allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the promised land. *I may not get there with you.* But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the promised land."  

So had that girl succeeded in stopping that dozer and more Palestinians saw it be effective she might have started a peaceful protest movement, we never know.  What I do know is that both men wouldn't call her stupid they would say she was brave for trying to make a stand against a wrong.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 25, 2009)

KelJu said:


> Truth overload!
> 
> But it doesn't surprise me. There are a lot of American Jews with a lot of money and power. Israel is part of the in-crowd by association.



Which explains why so many dumbass Americans are pro-Palestinian.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 25, 2009)

KelJu said:


> I agree with her 100%. Jesus was awesome. I don't know about the whole son of god thing, but Jesus as a man, embodied everything that was pure and beautiful about spirituality. Most of the modern day Christians that I run into or see on TV don't seem to embody his core values so much.
> 
> I don't think Jesus would see eye to eye with any of the modern day conservative christian leaders. Now, I know you don't believe the same things as people like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robinson, or at least I hope you don't. But, those people are representing you, and those people have generated more hatred towards religion than any other factor.
> 
> You just can;t say things like God loves America more than the rest of the world. You can't say things like god hates fag and is sending them to hell. Well, you can say things like that and people do, but they lose all credibility. It sure as fuck doesn't help your cause.



I'm sorry who here has said God hates fags, and loves America more? I've never seen a Jerry Falwell, or Pat Robinson quote here on this thread or any other. I represent me. no one else.


----------



## Chubby (Jan 25, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> I'm sorry who here has said God hates fags, and loves America more? I've never seen a Jerry Falwell, or Pat Robinson quote here on this thread or any other. I represent me. no one else.


These Cafeteria Christians are worst than those who don't believe in god. 
Anti-Gay Hate Group Will Protest Funeral of War Hero Thomas Tucker - Salem-News.Com


----------



## DOMS (Jan 25, 2009)

chobby192 said:


> These Cafeteria Christians are worst than those who don't believe in god.
> Anti-Gay Hate Group Will Protest Funeral of War Hero Thomas Tucker - Salem-News.Com



Old new, dumbass.

And many, many Christians denounced it, yours included.

You drop in and create uninformed, worthless posts.

You're my new Danny.


----------



## PreMier (Jan 25, 2009)

DOMS said:


> Old new, dumbass.
> 
> And many, many Christians denounced it, yours included.
> 
> ...



no kidding, she just posts worthless dribble, never even responding to posts addressing her


----------



## PreMier (Jan 25, 2009)

KelJu said:


> I agree with her 100%. Jesus was awesome. I don't know about the whole son of god thing, but Jesus as a man, embodied everything that was pure and beautiful about spirituality. Most of the modern day Christians that I run into or see on TV don't seem to embody his core values so much.
> 
> I don't think Jesus would see eye to eye with any of the modern day conservative christian leaders. Now, I know you don't believe the same things as people like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robinson, or at least I hope you don't. But, those people are representing you, and those people have generated more hatred towards religion than any other factor.
> 
> You just can;t say things like God loves America more than the rest of the world. You can't say things like god hates fag and is sending them to hell. Well, you can say things like that and people do, but they lose all credibility. It sure as fuck doesn't help your cause.



if you truly want to understand my viewpoints, then read the book of mormon.  there are a lot of false doctrines out there


----------



## DOMS (Jan 25, 2009)

PreMier said:


> if you truly want to understand my viewpoints, then read the book of mormon.  there are a lot of false doctrines out there



The Mormons kick ass.  I spent 8 years in Utah and got to know them.  They're the only religion that I've ever seen that spends more time _doing_ good than talking about it.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Jan 25, 2009)

DOMS said:


> The Mormons kick ass.  I spent 8 years in Utah and got to know them.  They're the only religion that I've ever seen that spends more time _doing_ good than talking about it.



There beliefs are very strange to me.

Anyway, how do they do "good."

Helping people, donations?

Just curious.


----------



## Chubby (Jan 26, 2009)

Not just Christians, almost all the religions are the same.  They are constantly taught that they are the only truth and everything esle is false.  They are told that If you don't believe in their god, you will go to hell.  I think most of these people believe in their god only because they are afraid of going to hell.  Does that mean that Gandhi and Mother Teresa went to hell?  Does that mean Dali Lama will go to hell.  Does that mean that all those little kids and their mothers who died in Darfur will go to hell?   It doesn't surprise me to see this kind of attitude of these religious fanatics.  Their egos have become bigger than their head.  People should not become slave of idealogy that was written many years ago.


----------



## Will Brink (Jan 26, 2009)

KelJu said:


> Truth overload!
> 
> But it doesn't surprise me. There are a lot of American Jews with a lot of money and power. Israel is part of the in-crowd by association.



All true. The bottom line here is, if you don't have lobby power, the right skin color, resources the world wants wants/needs, no one actually cares if you get slaughtered. This is one of the major reasons you find my position on guns as a human rights issue so strong. If the world has turned it's back on you, and we have MANY examples of that taking place, an un armed populace can do nothing but die.


For example:


Gun Control's Best Friend

By Dimitri Vassilaros
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Friday, April 1, 2005 

The slaughter, rape and torment of the citizens of Darfur would end if humanitarian aid included guns. 

Darfur is a Texas-size region of Sudan. The Sudanese government and its militia proxies have *killed roughly 70,000 civilians, raped and mutilated untold numbers of others and caused about 3 million refugees to live in camps. *

Sudan could teach Serbia a thing or two about ethnic cleansing. 

This carnage has been going on since 2003. The Sudan People's Liberation Army, a small band of revolutionaries from Darfur, were the only excuse the government needed to wage war on unarmed citizens in the region, who also happen to be fellow Muslims. 

 As I was reading story after story about the horrific treatment of the innocents by government-backed forces, I always wondered why there was no mention of the victims fighting back. 

"Some do defend themselves," said Bill Garvelink, acting assistant administrator for the Bureau for Democracy, Conflict and Humanitarian Assistance in the U.S. Agency for International Development. The United States has given about $600 million since 2003. 

"But *Sudan has helicopters and AK-47s. People in the camps have machetes*," Garvelink said. International treaties covering humanitarian aid prohibit giving any side arms to defend oneself; otherwise no aid workers would be allowed to bring in supplies to a troubled region. 

But Sudan is not allowing aid workers much access anyway so the refugees are caught in the middle, he said. 

*Amnesty International prefers to end the genocide by moral persuasion instead of self-defense. *

"We at Amnesty International are not going to condone escalation of the flow of arms to the region," said Trish Katyoka, director of Africa Advocacy. "You are empowering (the victims) to create an element of retaliation. 

"Whenever you create a sword-fight by letting the poor people fight back and give them the arms, it creates an added element of complexity. You do not know what the results could be." 

But we do know what they are now. 

Self-defense could exacerbate the situation, Katyoka said.* "Fighting fire with fire is not a solution to the genocide. It is a dangerous proposition to arm the minorities to fight back." 

Better they should be slaughtered. *

Katyoka hopes the United Nations can do something -- someday -- to stop the killing. She also hopes Sudan's leaders are charged with crimes against humanity in the International Criminal Court. But at this rate, will there be any eyewitnesses left to testify? 

Even Dr. Ali B. Ali-Dinar, founder and director of the African Studies Center at the University of Pennsylvania -- who was born and reared in Darfur -- does not believe in arming the victims. 

"That could create a vicious cycle of violence," Ali-Dinar said. "The cycle now is mainly orchestrated by the government. Give guns to the traumatized and it will definitely get out of hand. There is no limit then, for them to stop." 

He, too, hopes the international community comes to the rescue -- someday. 

(Ali-Dinar will be speaking 2 to 4 p.m. on Sunday at the Episcopal Church of the Redeemer, 5700 Forbes Avenue in Squirrel Hill. There is no charge for admission. It is sponsored by the Pittsburgh Darfur Emergency Coalition.) 

Darfur is one more reminder that gun control is genocide's best friend. 

Dimitri Vassilaros can be reached at dvassilaros@tribweb.com


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 26, 2009)

Big Smoothy said:


> There beliefs are very strange to me.
> 
> Anyway, how do they do "good."
> 
> ...


Church Releases Report on 2008 Hurricane Relief

And I post this not just about the Mormons. Mormons are not the only Christians out there doing this stuff. Many denominations of Christian practice the charity Christ preached. It just isn't sexy to report on.

How are any LDS beliefs strange?


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 26, 2009)

chobby192 said:


> Not just Christians, almost all the religions are the same.  They are constantly taught that they are the only truth and everything esle is false.  They are told that If you don't believe in their god, you will go to hell.  I think most of these people believe in their god only because they are afraid of going to hell.  Does that mean that Gandhi and Mother Teresa went to hell?  Does that mean Dali Lama will go to hell.  Does that mean that all those little kids and their mothers who died in Darfur will go to hell?   It doesn't surprise me to see this kind of attitude of these religious fanatics.  Their egos have become bigger than their head.  People should not become slave of idealogy that was written many years ago.



Do you actually read what you write before you post? You are making this stuff up out of your damn head


----------



## mcguin (Jan 26, 2009)

Splash Log said:


> Was going to actually make some post about Israel and how a feel about them but your fucks have managed to drag into some fucking religious creationism tub of shit.



Yea, like your posts are going to be that much more educating!


----------



## KelJu (Jan 26, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> I'm sorry who here has said God hates fags, and loves America more? I've never seen a Jerry Falwell, or Pat Robinson quote here on this thread or any other. I represent me. no one else.



Nobody here has. I made effort to emphasize that I was referring to Christian leaders, not the followers as much. Within Christianity there are a few fanatics that hurt the image of the whole. And then there are the leaders that really hurt the image as a whole. Then there are the rational and reasonable people like you in the middle that are only heard among friends in message boards and your voice is drowned out be the lunatics.


----------



## KelJu (Jan 26, 2009)

PreMier said:


> if you truly want to understand my viewpoints, then read the book of mormon.  there are a lot of false doctrines out there



Like the King James Bible, I will intrepet the Bible of Latter-day Saints with my own biases and predispositions toward how perceive God. I don't think it would do me much good in figuring out how Mormons think any better than just talking to a Mormon. Plus, I believe Joseph Smith was a lier and a fake, so it would be nearly impossible to read it with an open heart at this point in my life.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 26, 2009)

KelJu said:


> Nobody here has. I made effort to emphasize that I was referring to Christian leaders, not the followers as much. Within Christianity there are a few fanatics that hurt the image of the whole. And then there are the leaders that really hurt the image as a whole. Then there are the rational and reasonable people like you in the middle that are only heard among friends in message boards and your voice is drowned out be the lunatics.



good point. i can follow that.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 26, 2009)

KelJu said:


> Like the King James Bible, I will intrepet the Bible of Latter-day Saints with my own biases and predispositions toward how perceive God. I don't think it would do me much good in figuring out how Mormons think any better than just talking to a Mormon. Plus, I believe Joseph Smith was a lier and a fake, so it would be nearly impossible to read it with an open heart at this point in my life.



The LDS bible is the King James Bible.

And thats fine, it's actually pretty cool that you recognize this about yourself. I will say this though. The word of God is way more powerful than what any of your Mormon friends would be able to say. We may be able to explain certain things, but not like the prophets who write the word of God. Each in their own time.


----------



## Shae2K3 (Jan 26, 2009)

Now that I saw this thread I remember wile I was doing shopping last Monday in downtown Phoenix, I saw a massive protest. There were like at least 1000 people and they were holding up picket signs and Israeli flags. I look at the people at a near by bus stop and ask whats going on and they said somthing about a war. It was difficult to get home that day.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 26, 2009)

KelJu said:


> Nobody here has. I made effort to emphasize that I was referring to Christian leaders, not the followers as much. Within Christianity there are a few fanatics that hurt the image of the whole. And then there are the leaders that really hurt the image as a whole. Then there are the rational and reasonable people like you in the middle that are only heard among friends in message boards and your voice is drowned out be the lunatics.



I'm really, really trying to believe this about Muslims.  I've been reading up on them trying to see if the animals that I've believed them to be, or if it's just a few bad ones making the rest look just as bad.

So far I haven't been able to draw a conclusion one way or the other.


----------



## Splash Log (Jan 27, 2009)

mcguin said:


> Yea, like your posts are going to be that much more educating!



Yes they were gonna present information not a bunch of opinions, at least your post was educating and really contributed to the thread.  Go take some more H-Drol, and maybe accidentally choke out some family members.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 27, 2009)

Splash Log said:


> Yes they were gonna present information not a bunch of opinions, at least your post was educating and really contributed to the thread.  Go take some more H-Drol, and maybe accidentally choke out some family members.



These things have a way of running away with themselves. If you were really that worried about staying on topic you maybe should have policed your thread a bit. 

Care to get us back on topic?


----------



## mcguin (Jan 27, 2009)

Splash Log said:


> Yes they were gonna present information not a bunch of opinions, at least your post was educating and really contributed to the thread.  Go take some more H-Drol, and maybe accidentally choke out some family members.



listen, I'm not the one who started a thread called why I hate my life because I have nothing better to do than bash other people.  if I wanted to know about zionism, I'd do my own research rather than listen to you ramble about your insecurities.  Bottom line is, when you post something such as the above, be prepared for other peoples opinions.  It's not like your discussing your preference on how you want your steak cooked,  I have family from Israel, have many jewish friends and enjoy reading people's own opinions on this forums, but I havent yet seen one post from you stating anything close to a thesis as to why Israel and Zionism is garbage.  So until you can justify your post, I'll be sitting back and enjoying the show.  Kapeesh!


----------



## Splash Log (Jan 27, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> These things have a way of running away with themselves. If you were really that worried about staying on topic you maybe should have policed your thread a bit.
> 
> Care to get us back on topic?



It took over too fast, I posted it and went out and came back it was 2-3 pages long.  I was planning on spending my Sunday posting in it and posting it Saturday would get a few opinoins out there I could respond to and feel out people opinions now its just another generic religion debate when it was meant to be a debate on a religious state not the religion.



mcguin said:


> listen, I'm not the one who started a thread called why I hate my life because I have nothing better to do than bash other people.



Zing!



mcguin said:


> if I wanted to know about zionism, I'd do my own research rather than listen to you ramble about your insecurities.



Then do that and dont click on this thread.



mcguin said:


> Bottom line is, when you post something such as the above, be prepared for other peoples opinions.



Thanks Einstein, who woulda thunk forums are where people share opinions.



mcguin said:


> It's not like your discussing your preference on how you want your steak cooked,  I have family from Israel, have many jewish friends and enjoy reading people's own opinions on this forums, but I havent yet seen one post from you stating anything close to a thesis as to why Israel and Zionism is garbage.  So until you can justify your post, I'll be sitting back and enjoying the show.  Kapeesh!



I havnt been able too because the thread was hijacked by the religious/anti-religious fanatics and I would just be posting in between their rants that we have seen in thread after thread.  It has nothing to do with Zionism and the State of Israel.  Just you having family from Israel is enough to have your judgment clouded.   

Of course all the juice helps too, maybe next cycle add some gyno. MCGUIN SMASH!


----------



## mcguin (Jan 27, 2009)

Splash Log said:


> It took over too fast, I posted it and went out and came back it was 2-3 pages long.  I was planning on spending my Sunday posting in it and posting it Saturday would get a few opinoins out there I could respond to and feel out people opinions now its just another generic religion debate when it was meant to be a debate on a religious state not the religion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



why you have to be a crazy stalker?  those posts were from over a year ago, and what I do is my business, I don't know why you have to be like that, speaking of religious/anti religious fanatics what the hell do you call yourself when the title of your post says that you HATE israel?  Instead of keeping up on all the bickering your doing here why don't you start your thesis and enlighten us of how you've grown so hateful towards the democratic state of Israel?  and seriously, enough with the juice comments, hdrol for one is a clone ph, not an aas, and I was on it for a month.  Let's move on now...


----------



## largepkg (Jan 27, 2009)

Wow mcquin, you're taking this well. I'm proud of you for showing restraint.


----------



## mcguin (Jan 27, 2009)

largepkg said:


> Wow mcquin, you're taking this well. I'm proud of you for showing restraint.



Im trying...he seems to feel so strongly about the subject so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, these threads always get heated and nothing productive comes from them...I'm trying to be at least a little mature...


----------



## largepkg (Jan 27, 2009)

OK Splash let's get back on topic. I'm really interested in hearing your side.

I for one lean toward the policies of Israel and the US support of Israel. I'm sure my feelings are biased because of my disdain of Muslims but oh well.


----------



## Splash Log (Jan 27, 2009)

mcguin said:


> why you have to be a crazy stalker?  those posts were from over a year ago, and what I do is my business, I don't know why you have to be like that,



You were trying to point out some insecurities I had so I looked back and found you obviously must of had some yourself. 



mcguin said:


> speaking of religious/anti religious fanatics what the hell do you call yourself when the title of your post says that you HATE israel?



Its people like you I was trying to educate.  You don't see a the difference between Israel and the religion of Judaism.



mcguin said:


> Instead of keeping up on all the bickering your doing here why don't you start your thesis and enlighten us of how you've grown so hateful towards the democratic state of Israel?



Unfortunately this thread has turned into a religious discussion having nothing to do with Judaism or Israel.







Too many conversations going on.  My plan was to post on a Sat and get a few responses and opinions that I could then build I disscussion on but it was hi-jacked.  Not surprised happens all the time, I will just wait a while and try again.



mcguin said:


> and seriously, enough with the juice comments, hdrol for one is a clone ph, not an aas, and I was on it for a month.  Let's move on now...



You attack me I will attack you, I made one comment about my thread being hi-jacked and you had to attack me when I don't think I have ever said anything about you.  If it makes you feel any better my glutes are like pin cushions.


----------



## mcguin (Jan 27, 2009)

Splash Log said:


> You were trying to point out some insecurities I had so I looked back and found you obviously must of had some yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Look splash log, we can keep goin at this all day, im respectfully asking that you find time and finish this thread up so we can start discussing your findings, my opinion will be my opinion as is the same with others...I look forward to reading up on your thesis when it comes.


----------



## Splash Log (Jan 27, 2009)

mcguin said:


> Look splash log, we can keep goin at this all day, im respectfully asking that you find time and finish this thread up so we can start discussing your findings, my opinion will be my opinion as is the same with others...I look forward to reading up on your thesis when it comes.



And as I stated twice this tread is too far off track and I will address the issue in a time and manner of my choosing.


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 27, 2009)




----------



## DOMS (Jan 27, 2009)

Splash Log said:


> And as I stated twice this tread is too far off track and* I will address the issue in a time and manner of my choosing*.



Tonight sitting on a toilet angrily jerking away while crying?  

Yeah, that's better than this thread.


----------



## brogers (Jan 27, 2009)

*Egyptian Cleric Justifies The Holocaust,Airs Footage And "Hopes It Will Happen Again But,Allah Willing,At The Hand Of Muslims"*





LiveLeak.com - Egyptian Cleric Justifies The Holocaust,Airs Footage And "Hopes It Will Happen Again But,Allah Willing,At The Hand Of Muslims".


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 27, 2009)

I had someone translate that for me and it's an infomercial for hair restoration.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 27, 2009)

brogers said:


> *Egyptian Cleric Justifies The Holocaust,Airs Footage And "Hopes It Will Happen Again But,Allah Willing,At The Hand Of Muslims"*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I made it to the point where he said that England started World War 1 by attacking Germany.

All in all...so what?   He's their Jimmy Falwell.  Everybody has has one.


----------



## Splash Log (Jan 27, 2009)

DOMS said:


> Tonight sitting on a toilet angrily jerking away while crying?
> 
> Yeah, that's better than this thread.



I jack off at my computer

and the tears are like a lubricant


----------



## DOMS (Jan 27, 2009)

Do I make you randy?!


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 27, 2009)

DOMS said:


> angrily jerking away



do guys really do this


----------



## Yanick (Jan 27, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> do guys really do this



I try not to jack off when angry, the results may be devastating


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 27, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> do guys really do this



are you really surprised?


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 27, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> are you really surprised?



it's very funny imagery but angry n self pleasure seem a very odd mix. the crying has to be a joke...


----------



## clemson357 (Jan 27, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> *Israelis Against Israel*
> 
> *If you were a captive of the US mind control
> policies (i.e. the corporate news media) you'd
> ...




The assertion that the liberal American media is pro-Israel shows just how off base you are.  I've seen nothing in the American news about it except how man dead "women and children" there are in Gaza.



I have a lot of respect for Jews.  They are one minority that handles their own shit, doesn't demand entitlements, and doesn't put up with bullshit.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 27, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> it's very funny imagery but angry n self pleasure seem a very odd mix. the crying has to be a joke...



can you think of a better way to get rid of anger, and frustration?

and don't tell me you have never heard of crymaxing?


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 27, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> can you think of a better way to get rid of anger, and frustration?
> 
> and don't tell me you have never heard of crymaxing?



 no i didn't hear of that. and it seems like a risk of a horrific personal injury. maybe it explains a few things i saw online though.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 27, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> it's very funny imagery but angry n self pleasure seem a very odd mix. the crying has to be a joke...



That's how I meant it (as a joke).


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 27, 2009)

clemson357 said:


> I have a lot of respect for Jews.  They are one minority that handles their own shit, *doesn't demand entitlements*, and doesn't put up with bullshit.


Come over to NYC and you'll be in for a big surprise.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 27, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> Come over to NYC and you'll be in for a big surprise.



On the up side, I've never seen an Hasidic Jew hold up a liquor store.


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 27, 2009)

They don't have to, the Hasidics are well taken care of here in NYC.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 27, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> They don't have to, the Hasidics are well taken care of here in NYC.



By whom?


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 27, 2009)

DOMS said:


> That's how I meant it (as a joke).




well i loled. what an image. i needed a laugh too.


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 27, 2009)

DOMS said:


> By whom?



The politicians. It's no secret.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 27, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> The politicians. It's no secret.



So...the city pays money to random Jews?


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 27, 2009)

No, it's more complicated than that.
I'll get into it in more detail someday if I haven't already in another thread.


----------



## Yanick (Jan 27, 2009)

The jews here, esp the orthodox and hasidic jews take care of themselves. They have their own ambulance (which is all volunteer) called hatzollah, their own police force (also volunteer, no guns or anything, more like a neighborhood patrol).

I don't know what entitlements they expect or receive, but it wouldn't surprise me seeing as how the Brooklyn Borough president is Marty Markowitz, the Mayor is Bloomberg and they are part of the political strata from the bottom to the top.


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 27, 2009)

Yanick said:


> The jews here, esp the orthodox and hasidic jews take care of themselves. They have their own ambulance (which is all volunteer) called hatzollah, their own police force (also volunteer, no guns or anything, more like a neighborhood patrol).
> 
> I don't know what entitlements they expect or receive, but it wouldn't surprise me seeing as how the Brooklyn Borough president is Marty Markowitz, the Mayor is Bloomberg and they are part of the political strata from the bottom to the top.



When I did work for Hatzolla installing their radios and servicing them.
I used to dread going to them, but I had to because they didn't want a colored person working on their radios.

Take a guess where they get all of their radio equipment and ambulances which are not cheap.

The Jewish vote is very important in NYC, you get the leaders blessing and you have the whole Jewish vote.

I like the Jews,  but the Hasidics are pretty nasty to people who aren't hasidics.


----------



## Yanick (Jan 27, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> When I did work for Hatzolla installing their radios and servicing them.
> I used to dread going to them, but I had to because they didn't want a colored person working on their radios.
> 
> Take a guess where they get all of their radio equipment and ambulances which are not cheap.
> ...



I agree with many of your points. I can pretty much say i hate hasidic jews, they are a group where i assume your an asshole until you prove otherwise because my dealings with them have never been pleasant (at best).

Its a reason why i hate the jewish religion, they (it might just be my own experiences, i'm sure that every religious person of any group feels the same way) feel like they are better then anyone else. Their culture is riddled with "we are the chosen people blah blah blah" bullshit. I had a friend (not hasidic or orthodox but a pretty serious/proud jew) tell me that einstein was a genius because he was jewish, as though if he weren't he wouldn't be smart. He also went on to say that if someone reads the torah they will become smarter and wiser etc. This same person tried to persuade me into believing that the Roman empire fell because they fought and killed jews 

I dislike many things about them, but i will give them this...they take care of their own and they take care of business. They are not a fucked up, criminal people. I'm not afraid to walk through a jewish (hasidic, orthodox or secular) neighborhood in the middle of the night. And when i got into a pretty serious car accident the first person on the scene was a hatzollah guy who did more than the EMT dude that showed about 10 minutes later. All the EMT guy wanted was for me to sign the release form, the hatzollah volunteer took my pulse, asked me if i had pain, looked for trauma etc. Oh and i don't look like a jew in any way, i dress like any other american 20 something, i don't identify as a jew (well sometimes, my last name allows me to be in the 'in' crowd with them and i use that to my advantage if need be).


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 27, 2009)

Yanick said:


> I agree with many of your points. I can pretty much say i hate hasidic jews, they are a group where i assume your an asshole until you prove otherwise because my dealings with them have never been pleasant (at best).
> 
> Its a reason why i hate the jewish religion, they (it might just be my own experiences, i'm sure the very religious of any group feel the same way) feel like they are better then anyone else. Their culture is riddled with "we are the chosen people blah blah blah" bullshit. I had a friend (not hasidic or orthodox but a pretty serious/proud jew) tell me that einstein was a genius because he was jewish, as though if he weren't he wouldn't be smart. He also went on to say that if someone reads the torah they will become smarter and wiser etc. This same person tried to persuade me into believing that the Roman empire fell because they fought and killed jews
> 
> I dislike many things about them, but i will give them this...they take care of their own and they take care of business. They are not a fucked up, criminal people. I'm not afraid to walk through a jewish (hasidic, orthodox or secular) neighborhood in the middle of the night. And when i got into a pretty serious car accident the first person on the scene was a hatzollah guy who did more than the EMT dude that showed about 10 minutes later. All the EMT guy wanted was for me to sign the release form, the hatzollah volunteer took my pulse, asked me if i had pain, looked for trauma etc.



This is true, the  Hispanics and blacks can learn a lot from them.


----------



## Yanick (Jan 27, 2009)

I live 3 blocks from the Nostrand Projects. I always gave blacks the benefit of the doubt and rolled eyes at people who were racist or anything. It wasn't until i hung out with groups of people from these projects until i realized how true some of these stereotypes were. Hell they actually had a party celebrating one of this guys (his name was D-bo, lol) impending incarceration for mugging someone at gunpoint.

I'd rather be called a racist and make it home safe than be tolerant and beat up, robbed etc . In that part of Brooklyn, i will take a cab instead of walk through the streets now, and i speak from personal experience not from something i read in an article.

One more thing Min0, i went to school with tons of orthodox and secular jews and even they admitted that they hate hasidic jews...so the hasidic ones are really on another level. I actually thought this one girl was hasidic and she was insulted that i thought that (she was orthodox)


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 27, 2009)

Yanick said:


> > I live 3 blocks from the Nostrand Projects. I always gave blacks the benefit of the doubt and rolled eyes at people who were racist or anything. It wasn't until i hung out with groups of people from these projects until i realized how true some of these stereotypes were. Hell they actually had a party celebrating one of this guys (his name was D-bo, lol) impending incarceration for mugging someone at gunpoint.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Yanick (Jan 27, 2009)

IMO the best and worst part of NYC (in my case Brooklyn) is the diversity. Its a paradox, but it makes me want to get the hell out but at the same time i don't think i'd like it anywhere else. You can meet everyone here, from the ghetto gangstas of bed-stuy to the jews of borough park, to the hipsters of wiliamsburg to the russians of brighton beach all the way to the yuppies of park slope.


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 27, 2009)

NYC is special.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 27, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> NYC is special.



In the "it needs to wear a helmet" sort of way.


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 27, 2009)

DOMS said:


> In the "it needs to wear a helmet" sort of way.



Oh you get a lot of that!
Trust me, that's what makes it great.


----------



## Yanick (Jan 27, 2009)

Yup, one of my favorite activities is people watching. So many freaks out here its great, makes other places very boring.

Hell just going to the post office is an adventure!


----------



## mcguin (Jan 28, 2009)

conservative jews and hasidics basically are like night and day...everything mentioned above is pretty accurate as I lived in brooklyn for 16 years, canarsie and then mill basin...and Min0, its a shame that the latinos and blacks can't learn from anyone or anything period...they're part of the reason why i had to move out of brooklyn as racist as that might sound its pretty damn accurate...when i say blacks, im not talking about middle class hard working respectul kinds, but the ghetto rats that either dont work or work at key food and like driving down real estate prices lol


----------



## KelJu (Jan 28, 2009)

mcguin said:


> conservative jews and hasidics basically are like night and day...everything mentioned above is pretty accurate as I lived in brooklyn for 16 years, canarsie and then mill basin...and Min0, its a shame that the latinos and blacks can't learn from anyone or anything period...they're part of the reason why i had to move out of brooklyn as racist as that might sound its pretty damn accurate...when i say blacks, im not talking about middle class hard working respectul kinds, but the ghetto rats that either dont work or work at key food and like driving down real estate prices lol



I agree. But I have thought a lot lately about how to fix that. I can't come up with anything worthwhile. Imo, Blacks and Latinos lack strong leaders and role models. The black community needs more Bill Cosby's, Micheal Jordon's, Colin Powells, Barak Obamas, and Russell Simmons.

I don't agree with many of the beliefs of the people above, but they all have integrity. 

A huge problem is that black kids, especially in the inner city, look up to Gangsta thug rappers, ignorant arrogant sports stars, and criminals.


----------



## maniclion (Jan 28, 2009)

Yanick said:


> I live 3 blocks from the Nostrand Projects. I always gave blacks the benefit of the doubt and rolled eyes at people who were racist or anything. It wasn't until i hung out with groups of people from these projects until i realized how true some of these stereotypes were. Hell they actually had a party celebrating one of this guys (his name was D-bo, lol) impending incarceration for mugging someone at gunpoint.


Try living in the medium sized towns throughout the midwest where poor whites make up the ghetto population and you will see the same behavior.  It's not a black thing, or a mexican thing it's a lower class thing.  Out here in Hawaii the majority of lower class are the pacific islanders, Filipinos, micronesians, Vietnamese and a lot of mixed portugese/hawaiian/filipino/chinese/japanese or any variation.....


----------



## mcguin (Jan 28, 2009)

maniclion said:


> Try living in the medium sized towns throughout the midwest where poor whites make up the ghetto population and you will see the same behavior.  It's not a black thing, or a mexican thing it's a lower class thing.  Out here in Hawaii the majority of lower class are the pacific islanders, Filipinos, micronesians, Vietnamese and a lot of mixed portugese/hawaiian/filipino/chinese/japanese or any variation.....



I currently reside in northern NJ where its predominately wiggers and whites..the wiggers are all from welfare families who dont go out and better themselves, the crime rates are relatively high due to high drug use...but in no way shape or form do i feel that same here that I would still living in Brooklyn, I agree that its the class that makes the person, but I can peacefully live 3 minutes from these "wiggers", in case anyone is misunderstanding wiggers are gangsta white people who use gold to hide the lack of teeth in their mouths and they try hustling like urban gangsta selling drugs and wearing 200 dollar pairs of jeans named fubu.  Parts of Brooklyn have turned in to jack city...I single handedly watched my hometown be destroyed in a matter of a decade by the influx of lower class minorities who think living in a one bedroom apartment with 6-7 people in their house is a luxury.  One of the main reasons why these neighborhoods go down is because the beautiful parks, the well kept schools and the grocery stores become havens for these people.  I agree with Min0 we need down to earth blacks as he mentioned who make something of themselves to set better examples...look at p diddy, with all that money he still loves being a thug...


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 28, 2009)

mcguin said:


> .when i say blacks, im not talking about middle class hard working respectul kinds, but the ghetto rats that either dont work or work at key food and like driving down real estate prices lol



It's a real shame that the ghetto idiots mess it up for the rest.
The middle class blacks should really voice out the actions of the ghetto blacks instead of approving it. 
Middle class whites really don't want anything to do with white thrash...at least here.



KelJu said:


> Blacks and Latinos lack strong leaders and role models. The black community needs more Bill Cosby's, Micheal Jordon's, Colin Powells, Barak Obamas, and Russell Simmons.



I agree, the days of MLK and Jackie Robinson are far....instead they have Sharptons and J. Jacksons and thug athletes.



maniclion said:


> it's a lower class thing.



This.


----------



## Yanick (Jan 28, 2009)

maniclion said:


> Try living in the medium sized towns throughout the midwest where poor whites make up the ghetto population and you will see the same behavior.  It's not a black thing, or a mexican thing it's a lower class thing.  Out here in Hawaii the majority of lower class are the pacific islanders, Filipinos, micronesians, Vietnamese and a lot of mixed portugese/hawaiian/filipino/chinese/japanese or any variation.....



I can't argue that, i haven't ever lived anywhere else (well russia for the first three years of my life, then a couple of months in austria and italy, but i don't count that). I tried to come across as, this is just my experiences in my life. I still try not to be racist, i give everyone a chance until they prove to me they are a stereotype, it just sucks when most people do indeed prove themselves as such.

How was copper wire invented?
2 Jews arguing over a penny.

I've been valeting cars for a couple of years now as a side job (among other jobs i've held), and the worst tippers are the hasidic jews. I had a guy give me a twenty and ask for 19 back. They also have the worst attitudes, we would have like 200 cars for a jewish wedding, and they would all come out at once. There were like 10 guys running around (no lot, all street parking) getting cars. These people actually had the audacity to yell at me if they had to wait like 10 minutes for their car...all for 1 dollar that needs to be split among 10 guys. Needless to say, all of us got fed up one day and just left a block long line of double parked cars...it was a walk out, the boss begged me to come back and i said, not unless you pay me $100/day base pay (he obviously didn't and i didn't come back).


----------



## DOMS (Jan 28, 2009)

Yanick said:


> How was copper wire invented?
> 2 Jews arguing over a penny.



Two Jews were driving down the street when they saw a hot looking, fine looking woman walking down the street.  

The first Jew turns to the second and said, "I'm going to screw her!".  

To which the second Jew said, "Out of what?"


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 28, 2009)

copy paste from another site.... some interesting things to think about in here.

For those individuals -- such as nearly all members of the world news media -- who, in light of Israel?s invasion of Gaza -- see moral equivalence between Israel and the Palestinians, here are some clarifying thoughts.

First, it would be difficult nearly to the point of impossibility, to find Israeli or other Jews who celebrate the deaths of Palestinian civilians. Jews both within and outside of Israel cringe when they see pictures of dead Palestinian men, women, and children in Gaza. For thousands of years at their Passover seders, Jews have removed wine from their cups to ceremonially weep for the Egyptians -- their erstwhile slave owners for 400 years -- who died during the Jews? exodus. Jews have never stopped weeping for enemies.

The opposite is the case with the large majority of Palestinians. It would be quite difficult to find many Palestinians who do not celebrate the deaths of Israeli Jews or non-Israeli Jews. This is not only reflected in Palestinian polls that show majority support for terrorism -- and terrorism means killing innocent Jews -- it is also reflected in Palestinian media, Palestinian schools, and Palestinian mosques that routinely glorify murderers of Jews, and refer to all Jews as ?monkeys? and the like.

Take for example, Palestinian reaction to the 2001 Palestinian terror bombing of a Jerusalem Sbarro pizzeria in which 15 Jews, five of whom were two sets of parents and their children, were murdered and an additional 130 people were injured, some permanently maimed.

As reported by the Associated Press, a month later, ?Palestinian university students opened an exhibition that included a grisly re-enactment? of that mass murder. The students built a replica of the Sbarro pizzeria, with fake blood, splattered pizza, a plastic hand dangling from the ceiling, and a fake severed leg wearing jeans and a bloody black sneaker.

?The exhibit also includes a large rock in front of a mannequin wearing the black hat, black jacket and black trousers typically worn by ultra-Orthodox Jews. A recording from inside the rock calls out: ?O believer, there is a Jewish man behind me. Come and kill him,?? paraphrasing a verse in the Koran. It became a popular tourist attraction for Palestinians, to which Palestinian parents took their little children.

Here?s the question: Can anyone even imagine Jews, in Israel or anywhere else on earth -- no matter how right-wing they are politically or religiously -- doing something analogous to celebrate the death of Palestinian civilians? I have spoken to Jewish groups on both U.S. coasts since the Israeli invasion of Gaza, and when the subject of Palestinian civilian deaths is mentioned, all I hear is regret and sadness. This moral chasm that separates Israel from its enemies, and separates the Jews from their enemies, merely confirms what Hamas repeatedly says about itself: ?We love death more than the Jews love life.? This motto is so true that Hamas not only doesn?t weep for dead Israelis, it doesn?t weep for dead Palestinians. It uses living Palestinians as human shields and uses dead Palestinians as propaganda. The moral disequilibrium is such that Jews weep for dead Palestinian far more than Hamas does.

The second point to be raised is about perspective.

If during World War II, Western news media had reported German and Japanese civilian casualties in the same detail and with the same sympathy they report Palestinian civilian casualties in Gaza, it is doubtful that the Nazis and the Japanese militarists would have lost that war. Certainly, at the very least, the anti-Nazi, anti-Fascist war effort would have been severely compromised.

The analogy is entirely apt. Hamas is on the same moral level as the two World War II enemies. Do those who condemn Israel for its attacks on Hamas fighters that have tragically resulted in hundreds of civilian Palestinian deaths also condemn the Allied bombings of German and Japanese military targets that resulted in far more civilian deaths? I suspect not since most critics of Israel still regard World War II as a moral war. The overriding issue, therefore, is whether fighting Hamas is moral. If it is, then the unintended death of Palestinian civilians is a tragedy, not an evil (except on the part of Hamas, because it situates its fighters and its missiles among civilians, including schools).

Third, if Hamas had the same ability to bomb Israel as Israel has to bomb Gaza, would the number of Jewish civilians be in the hundreds? Or would there be the Holocaust in Israel that Hamas and its Iranian sponsors dream of?

The answer is so obvious that this consideration alone renders moral Israel?s war to destroy Hamas. In a short period of time Hamas will have more accurate missiles and longer-range ones. One of them could kill a thousand or more. Another one could destroy passenger planes coming into Ben-Gurion Airport, thereby causing foreign airlines to stop flying into Israel. It is that inevitability that Israel is fighting to prevent. But in the morally confused world we live in, only with thousands of Israelis dead, would Israel?s invasion of Gaza be ?proportional,? and therefore acceptable. But Israel is more interested in living with world condemnation than in dying with world sympathy.


----------



## maniclion (Jan 28, 2009)

mcguin said:


> look at p diddy, with all that money he still loves being a thug...


He loves feigning being a thug, but in reality he's a pampered millionaire gone soft....all of those guys are pure image especially the ones a decade or 2 removed from the streets, albeit most of them were never hardcore from the get go.  Sean Combs went to private school....


----------



## Yanick (Jan 28, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> copy paste from another site.... some interesting things to think about in here.
> 
> -snip for brevity-



Why the change of attitude? I'm not trying to attack or anything, just wondering what happened now that you're posting this piece instead of your usual "Israelis are fascists" links?


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 28, 2009)

DOMS said:


> Two Jews were driving down the street when they saw a hot looking, fine looking woman walking down the street.
> 
> The first Jew turns to the second and said, "I'm going to screw her!".
> 
> To which the second Jew said, "Out of what?"



oy


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 28, 2009)

Yanick said:


> Why the change of attitude? I'm not trying to attack or anything, just wondering what happened now that you're posting this piece instead of your usual "Israelis are fascists" links?



it's not really a change of attitude my basic attitude is i wish they, they being BOTH sides, would stop fighting and some of their kids wish the same thing. i just think there are some very good points made here.


----------



## Yanick (Jan 28, 2009)

EDIT: I suck with YouTube embedding. YouTube - Obsession (1 of 10)

Just watch 10/10, it helps me make my point.

I'd like people to watch the whole documentary (Its called Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West), but i think this last part is very powerful re: if terrorists are a minority in the Muslim world, and the vast majority is against terrorism, why doesn't the majority stand up and fight them?

The flipside to terrorists using schools and such as forts and kids as shields is that the people are letting them do it. If an american soldier, cop or Barack Obama himself tried to grab my mother, brother or anyone i love and use them as a shield he'd be dead or stepping over my dead body to get to my family.


----------



## Yanick (Jan 28, 2009)

Oh and to stay fair and unbiased.

You heard bout the new jewish brakes? They don't just stop on a dime they pick it up to!

Q. What did Jesus say to the Pollacks?
A. Play dumb till i get back


----------



## DOMS (Jan 28, 2009)

YouTube Video


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 28, 2009)

We loose because we are not able to call this what it really is. thats a crazy video you just posted there DOMS. food for thought


----------



## DOMS (Jan 28, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> We loose because we are not able to call this what it really is. thats a crazy video you just posted there DOMS. food for thought



Actually, that was the video that Yanik wanted to show.

It's only part 1, BTW.


----------



## Yanick (Jan 28, 2009)

DOMS, thanks for embedding it i'm like a goddamn mental midget with youtube for some reason.

And bio-chem, dude watch that video, it brings tons of shit to light...its only about an hour long. It shows how we (the west, not just israel) is getting played. They show how these people hold rallies IN AMERICA yelling "death to America." Yet we are scared, and have bleeding hearts and censor pictures of muhammed and so on and so forth.


----------



## ballin363 (Jan 28, 2009)

Pretty intense stuff


----------



## PreMier (Jan 28, 2009)

im on number 8.. wow.  wow.




edit

im buying it Obsession - Radical Islam's War Against the West - Shop


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 29, 2009)

Yanick said:


> DOMS, thanks for embedding it i'm like a goddamn mental midget with youtube for some reason.
> 
> And bio-chem, dude watch that video, it brings tons of shit to light...its only about an hour long. It shows how we (the west, not just israel) is getting played. They show how these people hold rallies IN AMERICA yelling "death to America." Yet we are scared, and have bleeding hearts and censor pictures of muhammed and so on and so forth.



It's time to bring back the crusades. we can make holy war as well.


----------



## Yanick (Jan 29, 2009)

PreMier said:


> im on number 8.. wow.  wow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The most moving part for me was when they were discussing what Jihad means and they say how it means struggle and it necessarily war etc. Then Shoebat (ex PLO dude) says something along the lines of, yes Jihad means struggle but so does Mein Kampf.


----------



## Yanick (Jan 29, 2009)

bio-chem said:


> It's time to bring back the crusades. we can make holy war as well.



We can't do anything because we have too many bleeding hearts and would be crucified. I really think that the only answer is for the moderate, peaceful muslims to stand up for themselves and not be herded about like sheep by these radicals. Its the only way everyone wins.

The only fear i have is that more muslims than we think are indeed supportive of these terrorists. We are in for a big fucking surprise then.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 29, 2009)

Yanick said:


> We can't do anything because we have too many bleeding hearts and would be crucified. I really think that the only answer is for the moderate, peaceful muslims to stand up for themselves and not be herded about like sheep by these radicals. Its the only way everyone wins.
> 
> The only fear i have is that more muslims than we think are indeed supportive of these terrorists. We are in for a big fucking surprise then.



true


----------



## DOMS (Jan 29, 2009)

Yanick said:


> I really think that the only answer is for the moderate, peaceful muslims to stand up for themselves and not be herded about like sheep by these radicals.



Yeah, but I'd think that two people can make that much difference.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 29, 2009)

DOMS said:


> Yeah, but I'd think that two people can make that much difference.



hahahha


----------



## PreMier (Jan 29, 2009)

Yanick said:


> The most moving part for me was when they were discussing what Jihad means and they say how it means struggle and it necessarily war etc. Then Shoebat (ex PLO dude) says something along the lines of, yes Jihad means struggle but so does Mein Kampf.



yea, it was really amazing to learn that hitler was meeting with one of the muslim guys and having him form ss divisions.  no wonder they hate the jews and western culture.  hitlers influence spread much farther, and was much greater than i thought


----------



## maniclion (Jan 30, 2009)

I'm just wondering when Israel is going to get desperate and try to drag us into their shit like their failed attempt to sink a Navy ship in 1967 and blame it on Egypt during the 6 day war.....





YouTube Video










The one in which our President Johnson recalled aircraft to help stating "that he did not care if every man drowned and the ship sank, but that he would not embarrass his allies."


----------



## mcguin (Jan 30, 2009)

maniclion said:


> I'm just wondering when Israel is going to get desperate and try to drag us into their shit like their failed attempt to sink a Navy ship in 1967 and blame it on Egypt during the 6 day war.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



a navy ship did sink however implying that israel had attacked it is simple speculation


----------



## DOMS (Jan 30, 2009)

maniclion said:


> I'm just wondering when Israel is going to get desperate and try to drag us into their shit like their failed attempt to sink a Navy ship in 1967 and blame it on Egypt during the 6 day war.....
> 
> The one in which our President Johnson recalled aircraft to help stating "that he did not care if every man drowned and the ship sank, but that he would not embarrass his allies."



The bullshit that you dig up is amazing.

The first sign that your video is shit is that they referred to the US downing it's own plane as a "terrorist attack."  That bullshit movie is obviously post-9/11.  

The Israelis weren't told by the US that the US had a ship in the area.  An area that just happened to have a full-scale war going on.  

Don't get me wrong, the Israelis fucked up, but it wasn't a done on purpose.  _Or, do you expect everyone to believe that during their largest war to date, the Israelis would take a moment out of their war to fire on their most powerful ally and patron?_  Yes, that makes absolute sense...

See, this is what happens when you don't think for yourself.

I do like the touches of having a old man dong the narrating so that it sounds like someone who might have been there and using the oldest video footage of a book showing a picture of whatever class the USS Liberty was.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Jan 30, 2009)

DOMS said:


> The bullshit that you dig up is amazing.
> 
> The first sign that your video is shit is that they referred to the US downing it's own plane as a "terrorist attack."  That bullshit movie is obviously post-9/11.
> 
> ...



There is evidence that Israel knew.  A lot of evidence.

We all have are opinions.


----------



## maniclion (Jan 30, 2009)

DOMS said:


> The bullshit that you dig up is amazing.
> 
> See, this is what happens when you don't think for yourself.
> *You're deriding me for not thinking for myself.  Believe me I researched deep into this before I formed my opinion.  I decided to believe all of the evidence from the men who were actually there and who weren't Israeli.  The CIA and Defense Department aren't giving out full details, the tapes they released are blanked over and missing 2 tapes.  How could the Israeli's miss the huge American flag and the giant GTR5 painted on both sides* *of the ship for 2 hours*? * What kind of ally do we want who strafes lifeboats and defenseless sailors who've jumped ship?  It's obvious they wanted no one left alive for the plan to work but they underestimated our US Sailors abilities to defend a ship.  There are too many Intelligence analysts who have come forward saying they heard them identifying the ship as US...*
> ...


This isn't one of those 9/11 consp-theory's where the evidence is barely believable, this has eye-witness accounts from our own veterans, if there's one thing I learned in my time in service you learn that you can't trust any of the shit from the top level, but you can trust almost everything from the enlisted guys unless it's about women, alcohol or what they did on leave.....There is plenty of evidence in this one to weigh heavily in both directions and with our gov. hiding whatever it wants we may never know the truth.....


----------



## DOMS (Jan 30, 2009)

maniclion said:


> This isn't one of those 9/11 consp-theory's where the evidence is barely believable, this has eye-witness accounts from our own veterans, if there's one thing I learned in my time in service you learn that you can't trust any of the shit from the top level, but you can trust almost everything from the enlisted guys unless it's about women, alcohol or what they did on leave.....



Staffing life rafts?  If I was fighting a foe that wanted to utterly annihilate me, I would do that to.  Israeli's enemies don't want to "win", they want to kill every last Jew.

I'm not saying that the attack didn't take place, I'm saying that the cause isn't what you think it is.

Okay, time for some real basic thinking.

Why would Israel, who was in the biggest war they've had so far, want to _purposefully_ attack their largest benefactor and ally?  

What, fighting _*three*_ larger countries wasn't enough?  They also wanted to take on the most powerful country in the world?  One that dwarfs all three of their current opponents?

Where the hell is the logic in that?

Friendly fire happens all of the time in every war.  _Every single war_.  It happens not only to allies, but to people in the same army.   That friendly fire was the cause of the attack makes complete sense versus the rubbish that you're postulating.


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 30, 2009)

what a fucking mess. not saying there's never a reason to fight but what a shitstorm.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 30, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> what a fucking mess. not saying there's never a reason to fight but what a shitstorm.



The reason that it's a shitstorm is due to international interference.  If the rest of the world would just let that war run its natural course, it would be over in a couple of days.


----------



## maniclion (Jan 30, 2009)

DOMS said:


> Staffing life rafts?  If I was fighting a foe that wanted to utterly annihilate me, I would do that to.  Israeli's enemies don't want to "win", they want to kill every last Jew.
> 
> Friendly fire happens all of the time in every war.  _Every single war_.  It happens not only to allies, but to people in the same army.   That friendly fire was the cause of the attack makes complete sense versus the rubbish that you're postulating.


Sink a US Research vessel and blame it on the Egyptians so that the US could enter the war and not have the Soviet's feel obligated to protect them against an unprovoked attack.....


----------



## DOMS (Jan 30, 2009)

maniclion said:


> Sink a US Research vessel and blame it on the Egyptians so that the US could enter the war and not have the Soviet's feel obligated to protect them against an unprovoked attack.....



Sure, the aircraft put a hole in the cruiser and then took off.  Not bothering to finish the job.

Or maybe the believed the one hole was good enough and left in their supposedly unmarked aircraft.  The job done.

Then the US ship sends out a radio message to them indicating that their Americans.  So the planes, having forgotten the plan of appearing to be Egyptian, radio back that they're willing to help, even though the were getting away.


----------



## Yanick (Jan 30, 2009)

Look people nobody is perfect, and that includes Israel. I'm sure no one here is living a delusion that Israel or the Jews are saints. At the end of the day though i value a people which contributes to the good of the world.

What contributions have the Arabs given to the world in the last 100 years? As an objective measure i like to use Noble prizes. I don't know the number, but just go and look up how many noble prizes have been given to Jews and how many have been given to Arabs?

Not only that, but these people celebrated in the streets, had parades and parties after the twin towers fell. Nowhere in the history of the world have people behaved that way towards other people. Hell even Americans feel/felt bad for Japan for being nuked, no one celebrated the death of thousands in Times Square.

Yet everyone gives these people a free pass on that and nitpicks every tiny thing the Israelis mess up on. Its very obvious Israel would not attack the US, we cut funding and that place falls faster than a hookers panties at a bachelor party.

Does anyone here honestly believe Israel is trying to take over the world? These people just want a tiny piece of land for themselves, to be left in peace.

The sick bastard Arabs and such don't even try and cover up their hatred for Israel, America and all Western ideals yet we are arguing about a couple of mistakes that have been made. Its a little bit ridiculous if you ask me.


----------



## maniclion (Jan 30, 2009)

We weren't funding nor even helping Israel until 1968....


----------



## Yanick (Jan 30, 2009)

regardless, my other points still stand.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 30, 2009)

maniclion said:


> We weren't funding nor even helping Israel until 1968....



Openly, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that you don't pick on someone who's several times bigger than all three of the enemies that you're currently facing.

I don't know why you hate on Jews, but it doesn't change that one simple fact.

Israel was smart enough to beat the shit out three larger countries.  They're smart enough to not go picking a fight with the most powerful nation in the middle of a war.

Human enough to commit some friendly fire?  Sure.  Stupid enough to add to their enemies in a war?  I find it unlikely.

You also glossed over the fact that after they had gotten away scot-free, they came back.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 30, 2009)

Yanick said:


> The sick bastard Arabs and such don't even try and cover up their hatred for Israel, America and all Western ideals yet we are arguing about a couple of mistakes that have been made. Its a little bit ridiculous if you ask me.



That simple fact says it all.

Just goes to show you how many dumb fucks we have in our own country.


----------



## maniclion (Jan 30, 2009)

DOMS said:


> Openly, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that you don't pick on someone who's several times bigger than all three of the enemies that you're currently facing.
> 
> I don't know why you hate on Jews, but it doesn't change that one simple fact.
> 
> ...


A)who said I'm hating on Jews? B)Friendly fire doesn't include a barrage of napalm, white phosphorous, torpedos and everything else they threw at that ship for 2 hours C)when they realized that the ship wasn't going down after all they had done they reversed their position......I was in the Navy as a radioman I know how difficult it would be for them not to see all of the markings indicating it as a US Vessel, I also know that when a craft is in site comunications between them begin so that identification can be made.  

Israel knew that ship was out there it was on there Op Centers board until 11 am that morning, knowing a US ship was operating in your waters wouldn't it be priority one to make damn sure what identity the ship was to avoid making such a grave mistake against the most pwerful nation?


----------



## DOMS (Jan 30, 2009)

maniclion said:


> A)who said I'm hating on Jews? B)Friendly fire doesn't include a barrage of napalm, white phosphorous, torpedos and everything else they threw at that ship for 2 hours C)when they realized that the ship wasn't going down after all they had done they reversed their position......I was in the Navy as a radioman I know how difficult it would be for them not to see all of the markings indicating it as a US Vessel, I also know that when a craft is in site comunications between them begin so that identification can be made.
> 
> Israel knew that ship was out there it was on there Op Centers board until 11 am that morning, knowing a US ship was operating in your waters wouldn't it be priority one to make damn sure what identity the ship was to avoid making such a grave mistake against the most pwerful nation?



So, why not just leave and let the Egyptians take the blame?  That was the plot, wasn't it?  Sinking or not, the "Egyptians" attacked the Americans.  Mission accomplished.

If that was their plan, it made no sense to go back and offer aid.

Friendly fire doesn't just mean pulling the trigger once out of panic.  Someone could have come to the conclusion that the US didn't tell them the ship would be there, but there was a ship there, so it could have been an enemy in disguise and decided, without proper authorization, to shoot it up.  I'm not saying that was what happened, but it makes more sense.

I don't think you're hating on the Jews now, I think you're just loving on the conspiracies.


----------

