# will eating fruits hinder an Xtreme cutting diet



## joey2005 (Sep 10, 2004)

My meal plan daily is 


1/2 cup rolled oats (no sugar) 
1 scoop whey protein 


cant of tuna
1/2 cup brown rice


chicken breast 
pear 

1 scoop protein shake

WEIGHTS

2 scoops protein shake 


Tuna/brown nice/nuts (pb spponful) 


Now my question is. Will eating fruit and carbs such as Brown rice and oatmeal hinder or prolong my results. I know your muscles need carbs, but Ive been reading up on posts and been reading about fruits,pasta,and bread being bad and othe ppl agreeing


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## bulletproof1 (Sep 10, 2004)

extreme cut? ditch the fruit bro


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## shutupntra1n (Sep 10, 2004)

I don't know about anybody else but my own self but even 2 pieces of fruit a day and I seemed to always be gaining weight. Not muscle either. I used to run alot too. I have heard that before from others.


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## Jodi (Sep 10, 2004)

bulletproof1 said:
			
		

> extreme cut? ditch the fruit bro


I disagree.  Fructose fill liver glycogen which is needed for the FED state.  It's help provide satiety longer and less cravings for carbs.

I think 1-2 pieces of fruit per day is fine so long as its coming from peaches, pears, apples, berries and grapefruit.


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## bulletproof1 (Sep 10, 2004)

Jodi said:
			
		

> I disagree.  Fructose fill liver glycogen which is needed for the FED state.  It's help provide satiety longer and less cravings for carbs.
> 
> I think 1-2 pieces of fruit per day is fine so long as its coming from peaches, pears, apples, berries and grapefruit.



even for "extreme" cut? that was the key word.


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## pmech (Sep 10, 2004)

I couldnt survive without a couple pieces a day


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## Jodi (Sep 10, 2004)

bulletproof1 said:
			
		

> even for "extreme" cut? that was the key word.


  I ate fruit on every carb day for my competition up until the last week.


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## BulkMeUp (Sep 10, 2004)

pmech said:
			
		

> I couldnt survive without a couple pieces a day


Me too! i Loooooove fruit.


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## P-funk (Sep 10, 2004)

I like grapes


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## nikegurl (Sep 10, 2004)

hey joey2005 - i know this wasn't your question....but your calories look extremely low as listed.  have you added it up?  what are the totals and what are your stats b/c this definitely looks like you need more food.


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## P-funk (Sep 10, 2004)

> hey joey2005 - i know this wasn't your question....but your calories look extremely low as listed



maybe that is why he reffered to it as an "extreme cut"?


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## nikegurl (Sep 10, 2004)

without knowing his stats or adding it all up - it looks more like borderline starvation than an extreme cut to me.


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## joey2005 (Sep 10, 2004)

I do cardio 5x a week. 

My meal plan daily is 


1/2 cup rolled oats (no sugar) 
1 scoop whey protein 
245 CALORIES 



cant of tuna
1/2 cup brown rice
320 calories 


chicken breast 
pear 
140 calories 

1 scoop protein shake
120 

WEIGHTS

2 scoops protein shake/tuna and/or Chicken
400 calories 


Tuna/brown nice/nuts (pb spponful) 
340 calories 

 So about 1565  calories...would say 2k because of oragne juice etc. ...remember im trying to lose gut...not bulk up lol


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## bulletproof1 (Sep 10, 2004)

u drink 450 calories of orange juice a day? definately get rid of that shit.


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## shutupntra1n (Sep 10, 2004)

The pear and chicken breast must be more than 140 cals... no?


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## bulletproof1 (Sep 10, 2004)

unless its an "a" cup


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## joey2005 (Sep 10, 2004)

no i have 1 glass of OJ. and The chicken pear is 3 oz of chicken which is only 70 calories.


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## Emma-Leigh (Sep 10, 2004)

Jodi said:
			
		

> I disagree.  Fructose fill liver glycogen which is needed for the FED state.  It's help provide satiety longer and less cravings for carbs.
> 
> I think 1-2 pieces of fruit per day is fine so long as its coming from peaches, pears, apples, berries and grapefruit.



I agree 

I have successfully dropped to very low BF% with 1 to 2 servings of fruit/day!


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## LAM (Sep 10, 2004)

joey2005 said:
			
		

> My meal plan daily is
> 
> 
> 1/2 cup rolled oats (no sugar)
> ...



that is a terrible diet...not balanced at all, no veggies no healthy fats (monounsaturated) or Omega 3's...no fiber either

looks like you are trying to starve yourself, especially with all of the exercise that you do.  you will not get lean eating like that


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## Tom_B (Sep 10, 2004)

joey2005 said:
			
		

> no i have 1 glass of OJ. and The chicken pear is 3 oz of chicken which is only 70 calories.


2 ounces of chicken breast is 97 calories isn't it?

Your wasting your time trying to help his diet, people have told him over and over in other threads he needs to eat more, have some EFA's, fiber, balanced meals etc. but he won't listen, if he's so content on starving himself let him, I told him all the side effects of whats gonna happen to him from first hand experience and he's also gonna screw up his metabolsim so much it's gonna be hard as hell to lose weight, but if he won't listen then he can have the consequences, simple.


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## joey2005 (Sep 10, 2004)

i dont get it. That meal plan is similiar to most ive seen everyone agree up on.. I have fats with tuna...thats omega 3 isnt it? and what about flaxseed oil? and theres about 70g of carbs in the oatmeal and god knows how much in the rice. Tell me where im sterring wrong...youve only told me to eat 2800 calories a day. Thats not telling me what to eat. And when i searched and have read the other threads on this subject this is what i conjured up form myself.


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## LAM (Sep 10, 2004)

what are you stats ?


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## joey2005 (Sep 10, 2004)

6ft 1 .. 192 lbs. dont know my body fat % but its pretty nasty around the waist. So i know should take in at least 192x100=1920 .. i know thats a start. BUt there are several stops...the fat station,protein station,and the carb/fat station. Where am I not balancedD?


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## sara (Sep 10, 2004)

Jodi said:
			
		

> I disagree.  Fructose fill liver glycogen which is needed for the FED state.  It's help provide satiety longer and less cravings for carbs.
> 
> I think 1-2 pieces of fruit per day is fine so long as its coming from peaches, pears, apples, berries and grapefruit.


and I'm only allowed one


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## Jodi (Sep 10, 2004)

Your alot smaller than he is too.


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## sara (Sep 10, 2004)

I still enjoy my fruits on refeed days


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## Tom_B (Sep 11, 2004)

joey this is what I eat on my 2000 calorie days

Cardio before breakfast
Breakfast: 1 package of quaker regular no sugar added oatmeal
scoop of whey
1 very small apple

Snack: 1 oroweat carb counting tortilla wrap
1 can of tuna
1 very small apple

Lunch : Same as breakfast except no apple

Pilates/Abs

snack: 1 oroweat tortilla wrap
2 ounces of chicken breast (without skin)

Supper: 5 cups of broccoli flowerets
2 ounces of chicken breast
2 TBSP of becel 100% canoil or sunflower oil

Snack: 8 egg whites
2 TBSP of becel 100% canoil or sunflower oil

Totals: Calories - 2023
Fat - 65 (13 saturated)
Carbs - 132 (39 grams of fiber)
Protein - 244
I also take two multivitamins and 1000- 1500 mg of calcium citrate (thanks to Jodi's suggestion )

I know it's not the best diet in the world but it's the best i can do with my budget, see how I ALWAYS mix carbs and protein together (earlier in the day) and fat and protein together (later in the day) instead of just eating just protein at one sitting.


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## Emma-Leigh (Sep 11, 2004)

> Cardio before breakfast


 Tom - I thought you trying to add mass?? Fasted cardio is NEVER a good idea!! Especially if you are trying to BUILD muscle!! This is putting a huge stress on your body!! You should try to eat or drink SOMETHING beforehand!!



> Totals: Calories - 2023
> Fat - 65 (13 saturated)
> Carbs - 132 (39 grams of fiber)
> Protein - 244



You might also find that increasing your carbohydrates and decreasing your protein slightly will give you better results in terms of being able to add muscle. Carbs are NOT the enemy - they are essential to helping create an anabolic environment for muscle growth and can also HELP you stay lean if you eat the appropriate types of carbs appropriately!


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## Tom_B (Sep 11, 2004)

lol well I was never sure if I should eat breakfast before or after cardio, I asked a question in the training section about how to make sure I don't get rid of any muscle when i do my cardio and they told me to eat some complexed carbs and protein after my cardio, so I figured do cardio before breakfast then eat my oats a whey afterwards. but I guess I'll eat that first before cardio lol

Also I only eat that meal plan twice a week, the other 5 days is 2800 calories and my carbs are like 250-300 grams, I eat 2000 caloreis twice a week to kinda give me body a break from all the carbs and protein going into it, cause at 122 pounds I know eating like 300 grams of protein/carbs isn't good on kidneys lol


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## Emma-Leigh (Sep 11, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> lol well I was never sure if I should eat breakfast before or after cardio, I asked a question in the training section about how to make sure I don't get rid of any muscle when i do my cardio and they told me to eat some complexed carbs and protein after my cardio, so I figured do cardio before breakfast then eat my oats a whey afterwards. but I guess I'll eat that first before cardio lol


You should be eating a good meal BEFORE and AFTER cardio!!

A solid meal of complex carbohydrates and proteins ~1hr prior (something like eggs and oats) or a liquid meal (like protein powder and milk/yoghurt/fruit) ~15 to 30 minutes prior if you don't have that much time - would be the best options.

Post-cardio you also want carbs and proteins - and depending on the intensity of the cardio you would want these to be either whey + milk/oats/fruit for higher intensity or, if the cardio is low intensity you can for-go the whey and stick to real food protein sources sush as eggs (+ carbs).

But you should really be limiting your cardio anyway!! 



> Also I only eat that meal plan twice a week, the other 5 days is 2800 calories and my carbs are like 250-300 grams, I eat 2000 caloreis twice a week to kinda give me body a break from all the carbs and protein going into it, cause at 122 pounds I know eating like 300 grams of protein/carbs isn't good on kidneys lol


At 122 pounds you definately do not need 300g protein. 300g carbs is not so bad - this is not 'overloading' your body with the type of metabolites that lots of protein will (that is, lots of urea).... Just make sure you are also drinking lots of water.

Consider changing your diet a little - I would probably stick to a *maximum* intake of 1.5-2g protein/pound (somewhere around the ~200-240g mark is PLENTY for someone of 122 pounds) and then make up your calories from carbs (making sure you are getting sufficient fats as well - which it looks like you are doing at 65g).

You will find that adding mass is much easier if you GIVE your body the energy to built tissue and you don't TAKE AWAY the energy before it has the chance to work it's magic (that means proper diet and not so much cardio!)!!


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## Tom_B (Sep 11, 2004)

ok thanks emma, you always have such great info lol. about how long should I wait before I eat my meal after the cardio? I've also limited my cardio to 3x a week (days i don't lift weights) and god I miss it so much. The problem with increasing my carbs anymore is I'm afraid I might gain alot of water weight which I don't want, I want to know I gain a fair amount of muscle before I go on my cut.


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## Emma-Leigh (Sep 11, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> ok thanks emma, you always have such great info


You are welcome 



> about how long should I wait before I eat my meal after the cardio?


If you are doing higher intensity cardio (HR at 70% max or above) then treat it like a weights workout. You should be having your whey + carbs meal within 15 minutes of stopping. Some suggest you should be sipping the drink as you put down the last weight/step off the treadmill but others, due to the blood distribution to the muscles at this time, find that eating AS they finish working out just causes them to feel ill (no blood is going to their stomachs to help with digestion so the meal just 'sits' there). If this is the case with you then just stick to making sure you have in in the first 15 minutes after finishing.

If your cardio is of lower intensity (HR less than 70% max) then having food with in 30 minutes of finishing would be fine.



> I've also limited my cardio to 3x a week (days i don't lift weights) and god I miss it so much.


I can understand this... I love being active as well and I am one of those freaky people who enjoys cardio too! Hang in there - If you love running/walking etc then just think of it as a short-term 'siesta' from these and know that once you get your weight under control you will easily be able to add another few sessions back in!

Take that focus you had for your cardio and fixate it on making sure your weights routine is HARD and HEAVY. Who knows - you might find a new love and cardio may just seem less inviting! 



> The problem with increasing my carbs anymore is I'm afraid I might gain alot of water weight which I don't want, I want to know I gain a fair amount of muscle before I go on my cut.


Ok... Think about this logically - in all reality why are you concerned about some 'water weight'?

Water weight - aka: glycogen (which is the kind of water weight you are talking about, not sodium/bloat related water weight) is not a big deal and it is certainly not 'your enemy'. Sure, if you are trying to *cut* for a comp it is not the best, but in terms of athletic potential and having available energy for anabolism it is GREAT!

What this type of water weight is, is water that is drawn into your muscles (and liver) in association with re-filling your energy stores. It will mean your muscle (and liver) glycogen supplies are full and this means your body has energy to use when you train, as well as energy for your muscles to repair and grow (AND by having your liver glycogen full you are giving the rest of your body - like your brain - enough energy to function as well!!!)! 

This is ESSENTIAL for what you are trying to achieve!!

So now tell me - what is so bad about it? 

Also - Do you constantly feel tired? Run down? Mentally Slow? Or do you not have enough energy to jump around and be active (other than your 'essential' workouts?)? If so, then you might find that you will really benefit from replacing your bodies glycogen supplies and making this energy available for your body to use when it needs it! You might just find you FEEL BETTER when you allow your body this energy!


Now - You can not gain HEAPS of water weight - the average 70-75kg male (150-164 lb) can only really store 100g of glycogen in the liver and ~400g glycogen in his muscles... So someone your size is likely to only have the capacity to store a maximum of about 80g of glycogen in the liver (this is equivalent to ~0.75lb 'water weight') and about 300g glycogen in your muscles (~ 2.6 lbs)! So, at the end of the day, if your glycogen stores are full, you would have gained ~ 3.4 lb in water... This is not a big deal and certainly not worth compromising your recovery and gains for!


Really - try it and see... What have you got to loose?


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## Tom_B (Sep 11, 2004)

lol thanks again, how do you know all this stuff? lol you must read ALOT of books/sites.

Ok say if I eat my breakfast then 15 mins later i do 20 minutes of cardio, then I was another 20 minutes for my snack that's only 55 minutes, isn't that too soon cause your suppos to eat every 2-3 hours.

Also I am pretty tired during school days, I feel so run down but on the weekends I'm fine, so should I forget about the 2 days of the week where I eat 200 calories and just stick to the 280 calories 7 days a week?
Also I'm getting some real weights tomorrow, this guy's cousin is seeling a bench, barbells,dumbbells, about 100 pounds ranged out for only $60 , I can't wait, and I'm really gonna concentrate on my weights lol by the end I might just end up liking weights more than cardio, but nothing will ever beat my hour walks


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## joey2005 (Sep 11, 2004)

alright i figured i did some studying and came up with this meal plan. 

1 cup oatmeal 
1 scoop whey protein 

tuna/chicken
brown rice 
carrotes/string beans

pear 
1 scoop whey protein 

tuna/whey protein 

HIT THE WEIGHTS 

2 scoops of whey protein 
sweet potato
broccoli 

egg whites
almonds
cottage cheese

I did the counting ...came out with 2500 calories. 314g of protein...And i cycle carbs.. mon=carbs included in 3 out of 5 meals...tuesday=2 out of 5 meals. wedns=NO CARBS...and i repeat


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## Emma-Leigh (Sep 11, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> Ok say if I eat my breakfast then 15 mins later i do 20 minutes of cardio, then I was another 20 minutes for my snack that's only 55 minutes, isn't that too soon cause your suppos to eat every 2-3 hours.


Is there any way you can push that out to waiting 30 minutes after eating before you hit the cardio? 15 minutes is really not enough time to digest anything and so you will not get the benefits from the meal...

Also, if you are eating closer than about 1hr prior to training your best bet is to go for a 'liquid meal' - whey + yoghurt/milk/fruit - as you will probably find a solid meal will be too heavy.

If you push it out to 30 minutes - then it will probably be about 1.5 hrs before you eat again (20-25 min for cardio + 20 min afterwards) so that is fine.

The 2-3hr time thing comes from the belief that this is the time your body generally takes to drop into a 'post-absorptive' state following a meal. That means that this is roughly the amount of time it takes for your bodies insulin actions to react to the blood glucose rise following a meal and cause it to come back down again. It is therefore when your other hormones (like glucogon and cortisol) start to be the primary 'forces' in maintaining your blood glucose levels and is also when your bodies 'hunger signals' will start to kick in... This is what you want to avoid!! 

Anyway - it is more of a guide as to 'maximum time' rather than a minimum... You are better off supplying your body with fuel to recover from exercise than 'waiting' to eat by the clock! 




> Also I am pretty tired during school days, I feel so run down but on the weekends I'm fine, so should I forget about the 2 days of the week where I eat 200 calories and just stick to the 280 calories 7 days a week?


Ok - Do you see the problem here?? 
'Trying to add mass' + 'tired/run down feeling' = failure to achieve goals!

The LAST thing you should be feeling when trying to add quality mass is tired and over-worked. You need to REST your body for it to repair and grow quality tissue! Stress it out and all you will achieve is increased cortisol - which means more fat tissue, less muscle tissue and less muscle growth potential (not to mention things like decreased immunity, decreased stamina, decreased mental efficiency and decreased general health!!).

Good Diet + Excellent Training + Adequate Rest = MUSCLE GROWTH!

So - DEFINITELY keep your calories higher if you need the fuel... Your body will thank you.



> Also I'm getting some real weights tomorrow, this guy's cousin is seeling a bench, barbells,dumbbells, about 100 pounds ranged out for only $60 , I can't wait, and I'm really gonna concentrate on my weights


Good to see! 

You will soon find that weight training is JUST as endorphin creating (if not more) than your cardio sessions!

Hmmm... Do you know what you are going to do in terms of weight training yet? Have you done weights before?


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## Tom_B (Sep 12, 2004)

yup I can defiently wait 1.5 hours after breakfast, thats no problem.
I think the reason I feel so sluggish and tired is because after school started my sleep has been messed up (which I know you need to gain size) before school started I was getting 8-9 hours of sleep a day, but now that school started I'm only getting 6-6.5, because I wake up every morning at 5am to lift, then I go to school, get home make my snack, then about half an hour later I go to work, get home at 8pm, then i have to do my homework and prepare all my meals for the next day and by that time it's either 10:30 or 11:00, the only thing I can think of is maybe having a half an hour snap before work.
And I'm definetly getting rid of the 2000 calorie days, I weighed my self today and I lost 2 pounds, even after i took out the cardio, but my guess is that It coulda been water. SO I'm starting over at 120....ugh fun, god I hate my body.
I've never really lifted real weights before, I've kinda experimented with them at the suck ass gym at our school like squats and calv raises and some other stuff but nothing big. As for my routine I plan on using the p/rr/s one, I was doing my own version of p/rr/s on my cable pulley and my god I loved it , the first week after I switched the stuff around i was actually sore lol. But I'm probably just gonna change some stuff around to fit me.


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## BulkMeUp (Sep 12, 2004)

Tom_B said:
			
		

> Also I'm getting some real weights tomorrow, this guy's cousin is seeling a bench, barbells,dumbbells, about 100 pounds ranged out for only $60 , I can't wait, and I'm really gonna concentrate on my weights lol by the end I might just end up liking weights more than cardio, but nothing will ever beat my hour walks


Dont forget you also need to exercise your legs. Keep in mind the points pointed out by emma in an earlier post about squat racks. DONT ignore your legs. it is a common mistake done by most people. And i mean exercise them with weights, not cardio or long walks. with a good workout, *you * will be pretty beat!


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## BulkMeUp (Sep 12, 2004)

joey2005 said:
			
		

> alright i figured i did some studying and came up with this meal plan.
> 
> 1 cup oatmeal
> 1 scoop whey protein
> ...


Are you sure you got the macros calc correct? Here is my present cut diet which is ttl cals 1920. And i am 6' presently 172 which is between 11x and 12x my body weight:
Meal#1
1tbsp olive oil
125ml oats (raw measure) 
1 scoop  Whey Protein

Meal#2
125ml rice
100g chicken
1Apple
250ml veg

Meal#3
1Apple
1 scoop  Whey Protein
2caps fish oil
125ml oats (raw measure) 

Meal#4 
2 tbsp  (60ml) pasta sauce
Pasta (43g dry weight) 
 ** train **
1 scoop Whey Protein

Meal#5
250ml peas n carrots
1tb light caesars dressing
2caps fish oil
1can tuna

Meal#6
1tbsp olive oil
250g Cottage Cheese

TOTAL	1918.5(cals)	178(carbs)	65.4(fats)	185.8(pro)
Percent Makeup	100.00%	34.84%	28.80%	36.36%


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## joey2005 (Sep 12, 2004)

awesome thanks would like other peeps opinions


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