# Fighter needing advice on anavar and stack



## ismhmr (Mar 11, 2011)

I have a few questions.. Last year while training in Thailand I took oral Anavar and Winstrol together and got really good results. For my next cycle I did some injectable testosterone, and it hurt so bad in the injection area, I could not train 
(or even move) that area at all. So I am going to stay away from injections from now on, it just effects my martial arts training too much..

I am about to start a regular 4 week on 4 week yearly cycle, I plan to stay with the Winstrol at 40mg a day, take 10mg every other day of chen to keep my body fat off and I wanted to take 40mg of anavar a day, but the stuff is so damn expensive. I am keeping the dosage of chen low, because I hear it gets you winded. 

I am a fighter with a normal walking rate of 210 pounds (198 now), but I fight either at 170 or 185, so I don't want to get bigger, I need be lean, while being as strong as possible. Winstrol and Anavar alone worked great for me, even in a pretty low dosage (30mg of each per day) and I was able to cut to 178 for an mma fight pretty easy..

The problem is though, Anavar is so damn expensive. So I need an alternative. I hear it's not good to take Winstrol alone, so I need to find another good oral replacement for anavar.. Any suggestions? I have a title fight coming up that I want to be good and strong for.

I am also open for suggestions on a totally different oral stack. Let me know, I would appreciate it.


----------



## Grozny (Mar 11, 2011)

Usually most fighters will utilise high androgen stuff like Miberolone, Halotestin or Methyl Trienolone. These compounds can increase Aggression and strength very fast but not give a huge increase in bulk.

However I am not recommending that you use these compunds as they are all highly liver toxic and will give you bad sides if used for a long time (over 4 weeks). However the 'best gear for boxers/fighter'. In terms of punching power and restricting bulk gain these would be the answer.


----------



## ismhmr (Mar 11, 2011)

Grozny said:


> Usually most fighters will utilise high androgen stuff like Miberolone, Halotestin or Methyl Trienolone. These compounds can increase Aggression and strength very fast but not give a huge increase in bulk.
> 
> However I am not recommending that you use these compunds as they are all highly liver toxic and will give you bad sides if used for a long time (over 4 weeks). However the 'best gear for boxers/fighter'. In terms of punching power and restricting bulk gain these would be the answer.



That sounds good.. But I am one of those fighters who fights a lot, sometimes twice a month. Maybe something like that right before a big fight would be good, but I would rather stay on lighter stuff year around. Part of the point of this is to keep me healthy so I can fight that often, and keep that strength edge when I do.


----------



## Grozny (Mar 11, 2011)

ismhmr said:


> That sounds good.. But I am one of those fighters who fights a lot, sometimes twice a month. Maybe something like that right before a big fight would be good, but I would rather stay on lighter stuff year around. Part of the point of this is to keep me healthy so I can fight that often, and keep that strength edge when I do.



here is a list of the gear that most of the figher use:

Anadrol (oxymetholone) 
Anadur (nandrolone hexylphenylpropionate) 
Anavar (oxandrolone) 
Andriol (testosterone undecanoate) 
Clenbuterol 
Deca Durabolin (nandrolone decanoate) 
Dianabol (methandrostenolone) 
Dynabolan (nandrolone undecanoate) 
Ephedrine Hydrochloride 
Equipoise (boldenone undecylenate) 
Erythropoietin (EPO) 
Finaplix (trenbolone acetate) 
Halotestin (fluoxymesterone) 
Insulin 
Masteron (drostanolone propionate) 
Nilevar (norethandrolone) 
Omnadren 250 
Primobolan (methenolone acetate) 
Primobolan Depot (methenolone enanthate) 
Primoteston Depot 
Sten 
Stenox 
Sustanon 250 
Teslac (testolactone) 
Testosterone (various esters) 
Testosterone Cypionate 
Testosterone Propionate 
Testosterone Enanthate 
Trenbolone acetate 
Winstrol (stanozolol) 
Winstrol Depot (stanozolol)

also equipose is a possibility as it will improve your strength but will also increases your red blood cell count. As a result it should help your heart and lungs deal with the extra stress of your increased muscle strength.


----------



## GMO (Mar 11, 2011)

Grozny said:


> here is a list of the gear that most of the figher use:
> 
> Anadrol (oxymetholone)
> Anadur (nandrolone hexylphenylpropionate)
> ...



LOL...is there anything NOT on that list?


----------



## TGB1987 (Mar 11, 2011)

I thought the same thing.


----------



## cutright (Mar 11, 2011)

Lol that pretty much covers it


----------



## TGB1987 (Mar 11, 2011)

I train mma as well.  An an oral cycle all year long will be hard on your liver even though you are going to be taking breaks.  Repeated use of Orals is bad.  In order to do this safely you will need to use some injectables.  Just a low dose of test prop. or enanthate.  Some tests are more painful than others.  I know you have to be able to deal with pain, you are a fighter.  There are guys that take injectables who are not nearly as tough as someone like you.  So you may of just had a bad batch of test with a High BA content which made it painful.  If you get a good quality test you won't have this as much.  I would try to use anavar with the test if you can afford it.  It helps with your lungs and endurance as well as increases your strength without the added bulk.  Keep the test on the lower side that way you don't gain too much weight.  I would love to see your fights what kind of fighting do you do?  My advice for your cycle is to give test a try again.


----------



## fray5 (Mar 11, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> I train mma as well. An an oral cycle all year long will be hard on your liver even though you are going to be taking breaks. Repeated use of Orals is bad. In order to do this safely you will need to use some injectables. Just a low dose of test prop. or enanthate. Some tests are more painful than others. I know you have to be able to deal with pain, you are a fighter. There are guys that take injectables who are not nearly as tough as someone like you. So you may of just had a bad batch of test with a High BA content which made it painful. If you get a good quality test you won't have this as much. I would try to use anavar with the test if you can afford it. It helps with your lungs and endurance as well as increases your strength without the added bulk. Keep the test on the lower side that way you don't gain too much weight. I would love to see your fights what kind of fighting do you do? My advice for your cycle is to give test a try again.


 

x2... a low dose of test will help with your recovery while training as well as retain muscle and keep bf low. Be careful with the winstrol and other orals as mentioned previously because they are much harder on your body than injectables. In my opinion, anavar is the best oral option for you but I do understand it's rather expensive. Good luck man and be safe!


----------



## SloppyJ (Mar 11, 2011)

I was watching some fights on TV last night and one guy was obviously using. I kind of wondered what he was on....then he got knocked the F out.


----------



## TGB1987 (Mar 11, 2011)

I always wonder the same thing about the fighters I watch.  LOL


----------



## Life (Mar 11, 2011)

GMO said:


> LOL...is there anything NOT on that list?



Estrogen.


----------



## DaBeast25 (Mar 11, 2011)

GMO said:


> LOL...is there anything NOT on that list?


 
Cell-Tech


----------



## ismhmr (Mar 11, 2011)

SloppyJ said:


> I was watching some fights on TV last night and one guy was obviously using. I kind of wondered what he was on....then he got knocked the F out.



Yea, using everything in the world will not help you if don't know anything, or have no base.


----------



## TGB1987 (Mar 11, 2011)

This is very true. MMA and fighting in general it doesn't matter how big you are.  It is all about skill.  If you have the strength and muscle it can be a benefit or it can be detrimental depending on whether you know how to use it correctly to your advantage.


----------



## ismhmr (Mar 11, 2011)

Thanks guys, TGB, I will send you a pm with a link to my highlight reel later.


----------



## TGB1987 (Mar 11, 2011)

Thanks brother I would like that a lot sounds like you are doing pretty well if you got a title shot.


----------



## Supermans Daddy (Mar 11, 2011)

I know a lil bit about train'n and fight'n, and that list would get you fined, suspended, and possible have your permit pulled.

Since you said you were in Thailand I assume you went there for either Muay Thai or Muay Borang. Sawadee Krup!

If you fight for
USMTA
IMTA
WMTA
TBA
WBC
Test'n will always be a week before the fight, time'n is everthin.
I also assume that you are am level or you would not even consider fight'n 2 times a month,( unless you are fight'n in one of the 2 major fight arena's in Bangkok am's don't fight there) since the commission will not allow that ( unless you fight for Somchi lol) also you could not use the compounds you mentioned as they would not clear your system in time.

Here's the truth

Winny
Test Prop
Tren A
Halo ( ok but for some reason makes faces cuts bleed more) 
Tbol ( seems to be the new "thing" in the game)

All useful for this game.
 all can be used but should be cut out 2 weeks before examined "Clean" ( if you don't know what it is ask some pro's they'll know)will do the rest. You will also need saline iv after.
Gurrana is bein used more now as test'n changed again Feb 12. But what would I know lol

Hope that helps good luck and " Chok de Na".

Keep your hands by your head and your ass off the floor.

Peace and Love

BTW congrates on your title fight

who's the sanction'n body


----------



## tri856 (Mar 11, 2011)

wont you get tested for fighting?


----------



## ismhmr (Mar 11, 2011)

No, not every promotion does testing, and everyone does something.. They just Cycle around it.

And I am pro, but I am taking fights quickly to stack my record, to get into the big shows. The mid western states have a lot of pro MMA events, so I have a lot of opportunity to fight.

I do MMA, btw, not Muay Thai. haha. Eventhough I was in Thailand training, I never really had any interest in Pro Muay Thai.


----------



## tri856 (Mar 11, 2011)

damn then thats whats up


----------



## HKfanboy (Mar 12, 2011)

Ive allways used Tren Ace. (Low dose 50mg EOD) and Winny. It allways worked out well for me. (I weigh 220ish and cut to 205) The tren makes you strong as a bull but can screw with your cardio. (for me the limit was 50mg EOD to avoid that for the most part) Tren Ace is an injectable but I have heard of success using it as a transdermal. Tren dosent hurt as an injectable. (give it a shot, literally, and see for yourself - homebrew fina can be painless) Alot of people will tell you to run test with tren (wise advice) but my body seems to accept tren/winny or a light tren only cycle just fine with minimal sides. (night sweats mostly) Try it for yourself. When I was doing MMA and BJJ tourneys the tren/winny stack kept me gorilla strong.


----------



## TGB1987 (Mar 12, 2011)

Tren can cause you to lose endurance.  My buddy used to get tired just walking up steps.


----------



## HKfanboy (Mar 12, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> Tren can cause you to lose endurance. My buddy used to get tired just walking up steps.


 Totally thats why I suggested a low dose. I found the sweet spot myself of 50mg eod but I am shure this varies from person to person. On 125eod my cardio went to hell. Tren is potent and has some harsh sides but it is the king of strength as far as everything I have used.


----------



## TGB1987 (Mar 12, 2011)

I guess everyone has preferences.


----------



## ismhmr (Mar 12, 2011)

Man.. I still can't decide.. hahaha.

Yea, I am certainly not looking to lose Cardio.. That would be bad.


----------



## Vibrant (Mar 12, 2011)

I know that tbol was already mentioned but I know a lot of guys are using it instead of var because of the cost. So it might work, but I wouldn't recommend taking without test. I tried taking it solo but on the third week I started to feel like shit, so I stopped and started pct.


----------



## ismhmr (Mar 12, 2011)

Hmm.. So what does everything think about a yearly 4 week on 4 week off cycle? (without anavar.) I need something that doesn't sacrifice cardio, that doesn't put me in danger. I need to put in an order soon.. What is the verdict?


----------



## ismhmr (Mar 12, 2011)

Okay, so far I have decided that injectable TRENBOLONE and injectable Winstrol is my best bet, and I am going to take them every other day for 4 week periods then have 4 weeks off. I also plan to take a tablet of oral clen once a day, a body building champ old me he just has one tab every other day or so. What does everyone think? Should I add anything to the injections? Or does this sound good? Or should I do some sort of test instead of the Winstrol or do both?


----------



## ismhmr (Mar 12, 2011)

What does everyone think of a stack of TBOL, Winny, and Test injectables, with the occasional Clen tablet as needed? I am thinking that I will do low doses of the injectables about 25mg of each every other day for 4 weeks on 4 weeks off, all year long.

What does everything think? Sound good?


----------



## colorado (Mar 12, 2011)

No. This is not good. 

First off, injecting on a daily basis it really going to hurt your range of motion in your legs until that injection site has had time to heal. You'll be in Jiu-Jitsu class wishing that you could die. Secondly, what are your gaols? you claim that you walk aroung at 210 and fight at 170. That's going to get really hard to get back down if you start to take this route. Thirdly, and most importantly, it doesn't sound like you have very much experience with steroids. You were stacking two orals at the same time with no test. 
If you walk around at 210 and you still have the ability to cut down to 170 then you need more work on your diet. You are probably carrying too much body fat. This is going to get worse when you start cycling if you don't have your diet under control. 


I don't lose my cardio while on Tren Ace. I do lose flexibility in my legs from the injection sites that I use when I rote injection sites. Others do lose their cardio much worse than myself.

Here's the ticket for you. Stop everything you're doing and research more. If your natural Test production shuts down.... Good luck. Get your diet in check and start with a single (maybe 2) injections of Test E per week. Get on a solid AI and then use a good PCT regiment afterward.


----------



## ismhmr (Mar 12, 2011)

Thanks. and I do not have much experience. Your advice is the best so far.

So I should just start for two shots of test per week? How long should I cycle on that?

Man I am confused.. haha... What does AI and PCT mean?


----------



## colorado (Mar 12, 2011)

Here is a good cycle for you:

500 to 600 mg/week of Test E or C.  You can take this in one shot but most would recommend that you split this up into 2 shot a week. Honestly, it's up to you. 

You HAVE to read up on AI's and PCT. Please do NOT start a cycle until you have this fully understood. There is a lot of good info on these in the sticky section. If you don't use an AI you are going to start holding a lot of water. It's likely that you'll miss weight. PCT is going to make sure that you are able to bang all of the bitches that you are going to get after you win the belt. YOU HAVE TO LEARN THIS.

I am a purple belt in BJJ and I've done Muay Thai for the past 3 years. I know what your body is going through. It's important to not take a steroid that will give you muscle pumps or too much water retention. At the same time you don't want to be too dry. Try getting armbarred while on Winstrol. You're going to want to rip your own arm off to give it to him. It's not fun

Either way, doing a cycle should be about your health. It can be a wonderful thing for you or it could be a nightmare. Ensuring that you fully understand what you are putting in your body can make this a good experience for you and keep your fighting career on the right path.


----------



## ismhmr (Mar 12, 2011)

Sounds good.. Now ah... What is a good AI and PCT? Can you link me to a good section to read up on those more?

Also how long should I do the injections for? 4 weeks? 6 weeks? How long off?


----------



## TGB1987 (Mar 12, 2011)

Yes run Test cyp or enanthate like colorado described.  Now for an AI I would recommend Aromasin.  Take it at 12.5mg eod at first and you can increase it up to 25mg ed if you need to.   PCT take aromasin and Clomid for 4 weeks.  Clomid at 100/100/75/50 mg ed  Aromasin at 25/25/25/12.5 mg ed .  Do you want to use HCG or not? It is up to you.  Colorado gave good advice in both of his posts.  Tren will sacrifice cardio  IMO without a doubt.  You do not want to risk that.  Anavar would be a good oral that you could use with test if you can afford it.  Var will add strength increase cardio, and not add water weight or slow you down.  I would only use Test C or E with anavar.  The anavar is not needed if you do not want to spend the cash on it.  Good luck send me a highlight reel of your fights.


----------



## ismhmr (Mar 13, 2011)

Sorry, if I am lagging behind.. But like colorado guess, I am new to this.

Just to get it straight, you are recommending 500 to 600mg a week of Test E or C for 4 weeks, then for Post Cycle take Clomid and Aromasin together for 4 weeks? deducing the doses as the weeks go by correct?

I am also thinking of taking a little anavar every day, maybe 20mg each day while taking the test.

Also how soon after the post PCT can I start back on the Test and anavar?

Thanks guys, I appreciate all of the help.

The highlight reel is almost done, when it is, it will be on youtube.


----------



## TGB1987 (Mar 13, 2011)

Ok I didn't know you wanted to do a short burst cycle.  Use Test prop instead of test C or E because it will kick in much faster.  You have to inject at least e3d but *eod* *would be better*.   It will kick in much faster run this for 6weeks at 300-500mg a week.  If you take the test e or c it doesn't reallly kick in for 3-4 weeks.   Use anavar the whole cycle at least 50-100mg ed to get good results.  You could run this cycle for 4 weeks but 6 weeks would be better.  Then run PCT and take another 4-6 weeks off and repeat.


----------



## colorado (Mar 13, 2011)

If you only have 4 weeks before your fight I would forget about the whole thing. UNLESS.... You plan on running the cycle past the fight and for a full 10-12 weeks. 

You simply aren't going to know how you are going to react to these drugs. 4 weeks from now you may be more worried about bitch tits than you are the guy across from you in the ring. If I look across the ring and my opponent has really bad acne on his back, I may call bullshit. You simply don't know.  

Test P would be better for a 4 week blast from a bodybuilding point of view. But trust me, you aren't going to be wanting to fight feeling like that. I will second the Anavar though. I feel really great while on and my strength goes way up. 

You have months of studying and research before you you even get to the beginning of being ready for steroids. 

My recommendation is that you wait. If you have gotten to the point that you have a shot at the belt, do it naturally. It would be a shame if you did steroids and it actually hurt your performance. You'd be several fights away from getting a second shot.


----------



## TGB1987 (Mar 13, 2011)

This is good advice as well and something to consider.^


----------



## ismhmr (Mar 13, 2011)

Hahaha, well the thing about it, last summer doing the oral anavar and winstrol, I didn't have any sides, and I didn't get too tight like you mentioned, I was still very flexible with no change in that, and actually fought with that and did great. I practice contortionism every day, so I think it helps.

A few months after that, I tried the injectable winstrol alone.. It hurt like hell, but it worked, and besides hurting.. There were no sides I just got stronger and more cut.

My fight isn't until the end of May. So I think I am just going to cycle Winstrol and Anavar again and in the meantime do more research on the other stuff. Perhaps I will even add a little clen to see how it effects me. A champion bodybuilder told me to do just a little of that every other day. So it should be okay.

Thanks guys, all of the advice is really helping.


----------



## sub-mariner (Mar 25, 2011)

yo yo,,,do i need nolavdex if im gonna do anavar and winsterol? also wats a good dose to take for my first time,,im going to thailand 2 morrow,i keep fit,but have not been training in muay thai for 3 years? recomended dose would be apreciated?? thanks


----------



## ismhmr (Mar 26, 2011)

Assuming you are doing orals, Start out with 50mg of each per day. If injecting I would keep it to 30-40mg, and no you don't need that other stuff.


----------



## TGB1987 (Mar 26, 2011)

Dont run orals without test.


----------



## sulli174 (Mar 26, 2011)

i would stay away from the winny for performance reasons it relly dries out your joints might want to try masteron or primobolone both are available in an oral form  but injectable are more potant. also materon acts as aa mild AI if running test or tren.


----------



## sulli174 (Mar 26, 2011)

i am by no means an expert on the subject but i think i would run test prop at 75 mgs a day masteron at 75 mgs eod  and 30 mgs t-bol ed  if you can't afford the anavar.


----------

