# Primobolan/Clen stack



## katt (May 3, 2007)

ok - so I was reading this article about Primobolan and it was suggested to do a 12 week cycle and add Clen in every other week...

Is 12 weeks normal?  It seems like a long time to me


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## Pirate! (May 3, 2007)

That is a normal length for a cycle. Can you provide a link to the article or paste it here? There is a lot of bad info out there. I'd make sure to get lots of feedback from women before running a cycle.


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## katt (May 3, 2007)

This is the article..... 

Female Steroid Usage 101 
By: Micro 

Lots of people have very strong convictions against women using steroids. The most common misconceptions involve the strain of though that steroids will turn a woman into a muscle-bound man with a vagina. Although this may be true in some cases, the fact remains that steroids could be very beneficial to women.

Sure, if you inject a woman with testosterone, she will eventually develop very male characteristics. In fact, this is likely to occur with the use of most steroids. Some side effects may include deepening of the voice, development of facial and body hair, and clitoral enlargement. Some sports, like female bodybuilding, encourage the participants to develop unnatural amounts of muscle. So in an attempt to excel at their chosen sport, some women do in fact make that ultimate sacrifice. That is where the common misconceptions are born.

There is also a moral issue to deal with. Is it fair to use foreign substances to achieve a thin and beautiful body? I believe that it is fair. After all, are not E/C/A, protein supplements, and the such foreign substances? One may argue that steroids would cause a higher amount of damage to the body. While this is true if the wrong steroids are used, if a female steroid user has the proper guidance, there is no risk at all. There are also many other points that bother me about our society's disdain for female steroid usage. Many claim that it is such a shallow motive to want to look good. I beg to differ. Would you prefer the woman to continue life feeling bad and ashamed of her body? Perhaps having to settle with a mate that she deems unworthy? I think not.

Explain to me why it is socially acceptable to use the birth control pill, which is a steroid, to be able to have frivolous sex? Why is it ok for a woman who feels like she is a man to have a sex change procedure? I say procedure because, unlike the male-to-female sex change operations, there is no genital mutilation involved in turning a woman into a "man." When a woman seeks to change sexes, they prescribe to her large amounts of testosterone. Yes, you heard me right, steroids. So why is it ok to use steroids to have frivolous sex and change your appearance to be more masculine, while it is so wrong to use steroids in an attempt to lose fat and be healthy? Our society is one filled with many contradictions. Sometimes I am disgusted with society's hypocrisy.

I am here to shed light into an often-shunned topic. I am here to guide you in the proper usage of steroids. I am here to show you how to use steroids without losing any femininity. I am also here to tell you that if used correctly, steroids will NOT hurt you. If used correctly, steroids will NOT make you more masculine. If use correctly, steroids will NOT pose any health risks to you.

We must first determine your ultimate goals. If your goal is to gain as much muscle as possible, with no regard to preserving your feminine qualities, please go elsewhere. This article is not for you. If your goal is to lose fat and perhaps tighten and harder your body up while remaining as feminine as can be, please keep reading.

I will first address the issue of losing fat. There is no point in hardening your muscles and developing a tight body, if a soft layer of fat is going to hide it. It is often to your advantage to lose the fat before gaining the muscle.

Three of the most potent and most popular fat-burning medications used by athletes today are tri-iodothyronine (also known as T3), Clenbuterol, and DNP. I highly suggest avoiding the use of DNP. Not only can it kill you, but it will also damage all of your eggs, thus effectively destroying your ability to have normal babies. Due to the dangers involved with the use of DNP (more so for women), I will avoid discussing it in this article.

The combination of T3 and Clenbuterol has changed many physiques in this day and age. T3 is often used in the medical field to treat obese people. Wolman SI and company did an experiment in which obese patients were treated with 20mcg of T3 three times a day. The research showed a significant increase in weight-loss with no noted adverse side effects. Ventz M. did a similar experiment using 200mcg of T3 a day. T3 is highly effective and, if done correctly, safe. Doses of 150+mcg have been shown to significantly increase the chances of permanent thyroid shutdown. So I recommend using no more than 100mcg a day for no longer than 2 weeks at a time. (1,2)

Clenbuterol is a recently popular drug used by athletes in many sports for its purported anabolic effects and reduction of subcutaneous fat. It is a beta-2 (beta 2) agonist prescribed overseas as a bronchodilator, but not approved for use in this country. Clenbuterol indeed increases the deposition rate of lean mass and retards adipose gain. Clenbuterol is most often found in the form of .02mcg tablets. Male athletes tend to use 5-8 tablets a day. Female athletes tend to use 4-6 tablets a day. Much like T3, Clenbuterol should not be used for over 2 weeks in a row. Spread your doses throughout the day. (3)

With the use of T3 and Clenbuterol, expect to see your body-fat melt away but only if you use the right diet and workouts. I suggest you use the Bodyopus diet and do early-morning endurance exercises. If you are not familiar with the diet, I suggest you buy the book Bodyopus written by Dan Duchaine.

So here is what your fat-loss cycling should look like:

Day 1: 2 tablets of Clenbuterol and 25mcg of T3
Day 2: 3 tablets of Clenbuterol and 50mcg of T3
Days 3-10: 4 tablets of Clenbuterol and 75mcg of T3
Days 11 & 12: 3 tablets of Clenbuterol and 50mcg of T3
Days 13 & 14: 2 tablets of Clenbuterol and 25mcg of T3
Days 15 to 28: no T3 or Clenbuterol

Once you reach day 28, you can start over again at 1. Repeat this cycle as many times as it takes to achieve your desired fat-loss. And remember, you have to follow a good diet and do a lot of cardio.

Once you lose all that fat, it'll be time to put some meat on your body and harden it up. This is where steroids come into play. You'll need to find one with no virilizing (development of masculine properties like a male voice, body and facial hair, etc) properties in order to keep your feminine qualities. Choosing the steroid is the tricky part.

We all know that testosterone is completely out of the question! In his review of four female singers that underwent hormone therapy, Baker noted extreme virilization with the use of testosterone and Nandrolone (also known as Deca). Nandrolone Decanoate (Deca) has very strong virilizing properties. Geusens conducted an experiment in which females were give 50mg of Deca every 3-4 weeks. Even at such an incredibly low dose, 50% of the patients experienced virilizing effects. In 1980, Heinonen and company did an experiment involving 98 women. Every single woman who was supplemented with Nandrolone Decanoate (Deca) suffered virilizing side effects. I highly recommend avoiding testosterone and Deca! (4,5,6,7)

So what steroid can you safely use? Primobolan depot (methenolone enanthate) is known to be an extremely safe steroid to use. Notter did an experiment in which 43 women were supplemented with 200mg of Primobolan a week. Hartmann and company conducted an experiment in which 66 women were supplemented with Primobolan. In both studies, the steroid was well tolerated. For now I suggest you stick to 100mg a week. (8,9)

Start with 50mg of Primobolan depot per week for two weeks (note- this is Primobolan depot that I am talking about, not Primobolan acetate) if you experience no virilizing properties, I suggest you increase dosage to 100mg per week for 8 weeks. Then taper it down to 50mg per week for another 2 weeks. I suggest you also add some Clenbuterol in the stack. With this stack, it is common for women to experience a tighter body. Most women experience muscle gains in the area of 5-10 pounds during the 12-week cycle. Increased sexual cravings and faster orgasms are common side effects noted by women. A few women experience some acne and oily skin while on Primobolan Depot. How to get rid of the increased acne has already been covered in my last article, "The Complete Guide to Testosterone Usage" (http://www.olympussports.com/Hardcore).

Your cycle should look something like this:

Weeks 1 & 2: 50mg Primobolan depot per week + 3-4 tablets of Clenbuterol per day
Weeks 3 & 4: 100mg Primobolan depot per week
Weeks 5 & 6: 100mg Primobolan depot per week + 3-4 tablets of Clenbuterol per day
Weeks 7 & 8: 10mg Primobolan depot per week
Weeks 9 & 10: 100mg Primobolan depot per week + 3-4 tablets of Clenbuterol per day
Weeks 11 & 12: 50mg Primobolan depot per week

While on this cycle, I suggest eating 110% to 120% of your daily metabolic rate in calories. After the cycle is complete, I suggest waiting 6-8 weeks before starting over again. You may bridge this 6-8 week period with more T3&clenbuterol cycles. On subsequent cycles, you may experiment with higher doses of Primobolan depot but lower doses immediately if any virilizing occurs.

References: 1) Wolman SI, Sheppard H, Fern M, Waterlow JC. "The effect of tri-iodothyronine (T3) on protein turnover and metabolic rate." Int J Obes 1985;9(6):459-63.

2) Ventz M, Meng W, Franke G, Hampel R. "Effect of thyroid hormones on noradrenaline-stimulated lipolysis in obesity." Z Gesamte Inn Med 1984 Jun 15;39(12):282-4.

3) Prather ID, Brown DE, North P, Wilson JR. "Clenbuterol: a substitute for anabolic steroids?" Med Sci Sports Exerc 1995 Aug;27(8):1118-21.

4) Baker J. "A report on alterations to the speaking and singing voices of four women following hormonal therapy with virilizing agents." J Voice 1999 Dec;13(4):496-507.

5) Geusens P. "Nandrolone decanoate: pharmacological properties and therapeutic use in osteoporosis." Clin Rheumatol 1995 Sep;14 Suppl 3:32-9.

6) Heinonen E, Alanko A, Grohn P, Rissanen P. "Nandrolone decanoate added to tamoxifen in the treatment of advanced breast cancer." Breast Cancer Res Treat 1985;5(1):75-80.

7) Gerritsma EJ, Brocaar MP, Hakkesteegt MM, Birkenhager JC. "Virilization of the voice in post-menopausal women due to the anabolic steroid nandrolone decanoate (Decadurabolin). The effects of medication for one year." Clin Otolaryngol 1994 Feb;19(1):79-84.

8) Notter G. "Treatment of disseminated carcinoma of the breast by metenolone enanthate." Acta Radiol Ther Phys Biol 1975 Dec;14(6):545-51.

9) Hartmann F, Pompecki R, Desaga U, Frahm H. "Anabolic therapy in metastatic breast cancer." Med Klin 1981 Nov 20;76(24):689-91.


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## Pirate! (May 4, 2007)

Sounds reasonable. I don't know of a woman who frequents this forum that knows steroids well, so I'd make sure to get feedback from knowledgeable woman first. The clen/T3 plan looks solid to me.


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## katt (May 4, 2007)

That's just it pirate... I know of no woman personally... and no one here... so I'm relying alot on a doctor friend of my husband that has had alot of experience in this field... he seems to think that this would be a good stack for me to take... less chance of virilization with primo.  But,, we'll see.  

It won't be until the middle of June,, so if I decide to take the leap, I'll probably post results here


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## buttabeen (Apr 12, 2009)

hi,

I just joined this forum but I was doing some research about primobolan and anavar but I kind of had the same problem as you mentioned. I couldnt find any women who hade actually done a cycle of either, and what the result was. 

Did you ever do a cycle? If so, who did it work? Any side effects? Would you recommend it? 

Thanks


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## thatgirl88 (Jul 31, 2009)

I am currently half way through my cycle of injectable Primo and oral Anavar. My strength has increased an incredible amount and I am now seeing some pretty good muscle gains. I LOVE this cycle! I plan on taking Clen after my cycle is over to help me cut. I've taken Clen by itself awhile before this cycle and notices small effects, mostly loss of belly fat.


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## Michelle Hayden (Jan 24, 2010)

*What was the length of your cycle and dosage if you dont mind.  I had a fitness who woman that trains athletes tell me i should try Mast, but im afraid of the DHT and virlilization. because it blocks estrogen, so i was thinking the primo instead, because it doesnt have the anti-estrogen effects, although i hear that women competitors will use masteron pre-contest for cutting and lean mass.


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## weldingman (Jan 25, 2010)

Im taking tren and test prop with clen and t3  right now and getting ripped, of course ladies dont dare take the tren or prop, but alot of women at my gym love the primo and some are taking the anavar, all are taking clen. I dont think i would take the masteron as a female.


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## Michelle Hayden (Jan 25, 2010)

^I know...because of the DHT, but bber women competitors will take it for about 2wks prior  to comp for the extra lean-ness and cutting.  Even if i use Primo i will use a low doesage of spirnolactone or finasteride to help sway sides   I cant see using the Mast for a longer period and i want to at least run an 8wk cycle.  It will prob be the above Clen/Primo combo.  Var gives me too bulk, which I particularly do not want.  Some women do, but not me.


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## Littlepixie (Jun 6, 2011)

*Primo/clen*

I just finished my first ever cycle. I did a 10 week cycle of primo (injections) which I tapered up the dosing, then tapered dwn at end of cycle. My dosing never went over 100mg every 3 days. I also was taking CYX3 (clen/yohimbe/t3) mix. I also tapered dosing with that. The CYX3 was 2-21day cycles put in with the primo. I don't recall the dose on those. The clen was under 40mg tho. I went from 144 down to 138, and 12% to about 9% bf. I didn't retain water, no mood swings, no bad effects at all. I gained muscle and increased my lifts. I was hungry more often. I did get some hot flashes but not unbearable. I didn't do any kind of post cycle. I have been off it for over a month. I have kept the muscle but decreased in strength a little (which could be due to no pre-workout drink but may be due to not having the primo). 

I hope this helps. If you have any other questions tht I can help with feel free to ask. I hope I included enough info.


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## Baby Muscles (Jul 4, 2011)

Littlepixie said:


> I just finished my first ever cycle. I did a 10 week cycle of primo (injections) which I tapered up the dosing, then tapered dwn at end of cycle. My dosing never went over 100mg every 3 days. I also was taking CYX3 (clen/yohimbe/t3) mix. I also tapered dosing with that. The CYX3 was 2-21day cycles put in with the primo. I don't recall the dose on those. The clen was under 40mg tho. I went from 144 down to 138, and 12% to about 9% bf. I didn't retain water, no mood swings, no bad effects at all. I gained muscle and increased my lifts. I was hungry more often. I did get some hot flashes but not unbearable. I didn't do any kind of post cycle. I have been off it for over a month. I have kept the muscle but decreased in strength a little (which could be due to no pre-workout drink but may be due to not having the primo).
> 
> I hope this helps. If you have any other questions tht I can help with feel free to ask. I hope I included enough info.



I was thinking of starting the exact same cycle is it same to take both together the cyx3 and the primo did you feel any obvious side effects you could warn me about?

and did your thyroid come back to normal afterwards?


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## sassy69 (Jul 4, 2011)

Littlepixie said:


> I just finished my first ever cycle. I did a 10 week cycle of primo (injections) which I tapered up the dosing, then tapered dwn at end of cycle. My dosing never went over 100mg every 3 days. I also was taking CYX3 (clen/yohimbe/t3) mix. I also tapered dosing with that. The CYX3 was 2-21day cycles put in with the primo. I don't recall the dose on those. The clen was under 40mg tho. I went from 144 down to 138, and 12% to about 9% bf. I didn't retain water, no mood swings, no bad effects at all. I gained muscle and increased my lifts. I was hungry more often. I did get some hot flashes but not unbearable. I didn't do any kind of post cycle. I have been off it for over a month. I have kept the muscle but decreased in strength a little (which could be due to no pre-workout drink but may be due to not having the primo).
> 
> I hope this helps. If you have any other questions tht I can help with feel free to ask. I hope I included enough info.



If you have already done your research and are aware of and prepared to be responsible for the sides you may get, primo is a great cycle for women. But this said, I'd start w/ what are your goals & expectations, assume that your diet & training are already producing the results you want and you didnt' just start training and want to run this because someone told you it would "lean you out & tone you up". 

Prim takes about 5 weeks to show itself, so I wouldn't bother running it for anywhere less than 8-10 weeks, but easily 12-15 weeks.

There is no reason to taper a cycle for women. The compound will be staying in your system until its "detection time" regardless of you reducing the dose. (I.e. the only time tapering dose is used in cycling is for thyroid medication or estrogen manipulation - AIs or SERMs).  There is also no need for PCT unless you're doing agressive & continuous cycles.

Primo does not aromatize (i.e no water retention) however it, as does any steroid or sex hormone manipulator (this includes AIs or SERMs) has the potential to promote yeast infections by screwing up the balance of "good" and "bad" vaginal bacteria. Primo is also notorious for causing hairloss.  Other sides can include raised blood pressure, cholesterol, acne, oily skin. Potentially mood swings or may instead produce a better sense of well-being, in addition to improved muscle strength (note - NOT improved connective tissue strength) and improved recovery.

Please see this stickie for much more information - please read all of this. http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/female-talk/136316-women-drugs.html



Also be very sure of your primo source - not so much these days but a few years back, primo was frequently faked.


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## sassy69 (Jul 4, 2011)

weldingman said:


> Im taking tren and test prop with clen and t3  right now and getting ripped, of course ladies dont dare take the tren or prop, but alot of women at my gym love the primo and some are taking the anavar, all are taking clen. I dont think i would take the masteron as a female.



I don't recommend either of these (tren or test prop) for a woman unless she is already very experienced w/ AAS and is very clear on her goals & expectations.

Masteron tends to be interchangeable w/ proviron, which is most commonly used in conjunction w/ nolvadex for the last 4-6 weeks of a contest cycle to tighten up and dry out. I would not recommend running mast for a long time as it is very androgenic and not anabolic so it won't be doing much to help build mass.


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## stephmd (Apr 12, 2012)

Hi, I just joined this forum as I was looking for information on using primo. I have been training consistently for over two years now, usually about 4 times a week, of which 3 with a personal trainer. (he is a pro bodybuilder).  My diet is pretty good, my protein intake, pre/post workout drinks etc, and I have achieved some results, however I feel like I am at a standstill now. My pt is not at all promoting the use of anything but after me pestering him he said if anything primo would be something I could take. I don't want to do shows or become a bodybuilder. I just want more lean muscle and still look female! Would primo be a good option for me? And if so what dose would anyone recommend?  Or what cycle length?  There are no ladies in our gym using it so am a little worried as I read so many different things online. Thanks for any help / advice.


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