# Palin: ???Obviously, We???ve Got To Stand With Our North Korean Allies???



## min0 lee (Nov 24, 2010)

She can see North Korea from her house.



> In recent days, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has hinted in her clearest language yet that she is seriously considering a run for the presidency in 2012. Many observers have argued that Palin could never win because of her embarrassing lack of expertise, knowledge, or interest in foreign policy. Her appearance on Fox News host Glenn Beck’s radio show today, captured by Oliver Willis, suggests they may be right:
> 
> CO-HOST: How would you handle a situation like the one that just developed in North Korea? [...]
> 
> ...


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## min0 lee (Nov 24, 2010)

omm....left hand is North Korea which is bad....right hand is South Korea which they told me is best Korea...left forearm is west Korea...we are allies with them......


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## IronAddict (Nov 24, 2010)




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## Big Smoothy (Nov 24, 2010)

Palin is a bad movie that just keeps getting worse.

I hope this Palin over-exposure become "Palin Fatique," and she fades away.  But it may be a couple or few years.  Perhaps less.  Who knows.


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## GearsMcGilf (Nov 24, 2010)

God forbid she gets the nomination.  She'd be Barry's wet dream if she were to get in 2012.  I don't see it happening tho.


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## bio-chem (Nov 24, 2010)

Palin as the republican nominee hands the democrates 4 more horrible years. no palin, no obama in 2012


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## Arnold (Nov 24, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> Palin as the republican nominee hands the democrates 4 more horrible years. no palin, no obama in 2012



there is no way she would get it.


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## Big Smoothy (Nov 25, 2010)

I agree with bio-chem & Prince.

Her negatives are not only high (polling) but a high percentage of the voting populate does not consider her qualified.

The GOP machine knows this as well.  Palin can raise money for GOP candidate, get speaking fees, and motivate her base.

Politicans again?  To elected office?  I don't see it happening. She's ca$hing in on the books and speaking fees, also.


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## Big Smoothy (Nov 25, 2010)

edited b/c video is out of date.


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## GearsMcGilf (Nov 25, 2010)

She's become nothing more than a publicity whore.  She's about as qualified to be president as the one we have now, and that doesn't say much.  You don't get elected as governor of a state, quit midterm because the media isn't kind to you, then run for president.  It's not gonna happen.  If she got the nom, it would be a blessing for the dems.

I'd love to see Mitt Romney, Ron Paul, or especially Bobby Jindal on the ticket next time.  Bobby Jindal is a smart, no bullshit m'fucker.  Unfortunately, like a lot of good candidates, he may be too smart to be electable.


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## Big Smoothy (Nov 25, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> She's become nothing more than a publicity whore.



Agree.  And her daughter and Levi are getting attention.  Palin Fatigue....?



> She's about as qualified to be president as the one we have now



What makes a person qualified can be subjective, but on this statement I beg to differ.

Look at the difference in education, knowledge, and how well read both of them are.  Very different.



> I'd love to see Mitt Romney,



He's seems Presidential, IMO.  Only problems IMO, is Romney is not a _W.A.S.P._ and to the anathema of Evangelical Christians and other components of the Christian GOP right, he's a Mormon.  As many as 2/3rds of these folks claim they could not/would not vote for a Mormon.  That was in 2008, however. 



> Ron Paul



Me too.  But he's outside of the mainstream and criticizes the Military Industrial Complex.  He's never be allowed by the GOP establishment.



> Bobby Jindal



Bobby the Brain.  Policy Wonk.  Smart guy. Inarticulate, not charismatic, extreme Catholic, not a Presidential politician.  



> Unfortunately, like a lot of good candidates, he may be too smart to be electable.



I completely agree.


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## GearsMcGilf (Nov 25, 2010)

Bobby Jindal may not be the most charismatic guy.  But, inarticulate?  I beg to differ.  He put Obama in his place during the oil spill debacle.  I'd say he's probably too articulate and sharp to be electable, much like Ronnie Paul.  

Obama may be better educated than Palin, but like most academics, he offers no solutions for real world problems.


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## min0 lee (Nov 25, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Bobby Jindal may not be the most charismatic guy.  But, inarticulate?  I beg to differ.  He put Obama in his place during the oil spill debacle.  I'd say he's probably too articulate and sharp to be electable, much like Ronnie Paul.
> 
> Obama may be better educated than Palin, but like most academics, he offers no solutions for real world problems.



Jindal had his chance in the spot light and bombed big time....he was the future star but after that appearance he laid low for a while.


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## min0 lee (Nov 25, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> He put Obama in his place during the oil spill debacle.  I'd say he's probably too articulate and sharp to be electable, much like Ronnie Paul.
> 
> .



He bullshitted



> There's nothing like a good old-fashioned disaster hitting you right in the pocketbook to make you rethink your opposition to government assistance. Remember when Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal briefly became a right-wing hero for threatening to refuse stimulus money that would boost unemployment payments? He even made criticism of the stimulus the keynote of his response to President Obama's first congressional address.
> 
> "In the end, it comes down to an honest and fundamental disagreement about the proper role of government. We oppose the national Democratic view that says the way to strengthen our country is to increase dependence on government. We believe the way to strengthen our country is to restrain spending in Washington, to empower individuals and small businesses to grow our economy and create jobs."
> 
> ...


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## Big Smoothy (Nov 25, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Bobby Jindal may not be the most charismatic guy.  But, inarticulate?  I beg to differ.  He put Obama in his place during the oil spill debacle.  I'd say he's probably too articulate and sharp to be electable, much like Ronnie Paul.



Gears,

You have a point.  I should not have used the word "inarticulate."  Bad choice of words. It's his message, or how he explains it, in the few times I've heard him speak.  I assume he uses a speech writer for certain things (like the GOP response to the state of the union a last year or before).



> Obama may be better educated than Palin, but like most academics, he offers no solutions for real world problems.



Agree.

But I'll add: Like most academics, _politicians_ offer no solution to the real world problems.  

The politicians of the US have intentionally ignored the most pressing problems of the US for several decades (SS, Medicare) and in some cases (national debt, deficit spending) have even made things worse.


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## LAM (Nov 26, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Obama may be better educated than Palin, but like most academics, he offers no solutions for real world problems.



much like the entire GOP and their desire to privatize everything and deregulate the markets.  we are reaping the benefits right now of GOP sponsored deregulation since the 80's.


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## GearsMcGilf (Nov 26, 2010)

Yes, more govt involvement will fix everything.  The federal govt has proven itself so efficient at solving all of our problems.  They're doing wonders with our health care as we speak.  The stimulus has this economy humming now.  Medicare, medicaid, and social security are the greatest success stories of the 20th century.  Maybe just one more Obama czar to oversee another bureaucracy is all it will take to turn things around.  Jimmy Carter was just about to preside over the greatest economic boom in history if we'd just given him another term to implement more govt regulation over the markets.  Politicians always have the answers.  They just need more control over our lives.


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## LAM (Nov 26, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Yes, more govt involvement will fix everything.  The federal govt has proven itself so efficient at solving all of our problems.  They're doing wonders with our health care as we speak.  The stimulus has this economy humming now.  Medicare, medicaid, and social security are the greatest success stories of the 20th century.  Maybe just one more Obama czar to oversee another bureaucracy is all it will take to turn things around.  Jimmy Carter was just about to preside over the greatest economic boom in history if we'd just given him another term to implement more govt regulation over the markets.  Politicians always have the answers.  They just need more control over our lives.



problems with the size of the Fed Gov, maybe tell the leaders in YOUR party to stop growing it every single time they assume control?  The stimulus should have been bigger god knows what McCain would have done make it maybe half the size.  The Czars you speak of 90% were created under GWB only a couple new ones were added under Obama.


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## GearsMcGilf (Nov 26, 2010)

If you cut out all the earmarks, there'd be almost nothing left of the stimuls anyway.  So, I don't see how making it bigger would've helped, especially considering that not even half of it has been spent two years into it.  Yes, GWB grew the federal govt immensely also.  That's what hurt the GOP.  They were growing the fed govt and spending like democrats.


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## LAM (Nov 26, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> If you cut out all the earmarks, there'd be almost nothing left of the stimuls anyway.  So, I don't see how making it bigger would've helped, especially considering that not even half of it has been spent two years into it.  Yes, GWB grew the federal govt immensely also.  That's what hurt the GOP.  They were growing the fed govt and spending like democrats.



nothing new about earmarks not quite sure why all of a sudden after 8 years with a republican as POTUS it's totally up to the Dems to fix spending in washington all at once.  with a broke middle class most economists agreed it was not the time for that battle.  You should see the full list of GOP leaders that requested stimulus monies after voting against the bill here are just a few of the GOP hypocrites that talk out of both sides of their mouths, Scott Brown, Michele Bachmann, Ron Paul, John McCain, Mitch McConnell, Mike Pence and Bobby Jindal. 

considering the Act is the combination of spending and tax credits not all the monies are slated to be "spent" in the traditional sense.


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## GearsMcGilf (Nov 26, 2010)

Yes, there were a ton of earmarks over the last 8 years.  It was Obama himself who said "there will be no more earmarks" in 2008.  For a "stimulus" bill to have any stimulating effect, the $ needs to go out the door quickly.  Not two years into it.  That's the problem with govt intervention to an extent.  Once we're aware that we're even in a recession, chances are, we're already halfway into it anyway and it's hard enough for a spending package to have much of an impact at that point.  But, waiting two years to start spending it makes it pretty much moot.


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## bio-chem (Nov 26, 2010)

LAM said:


> You should see the full list of GOP leaders that requested stimulus monies after voting against the bill here are just a few of the GOP hypocrites that talk out of both sides of their mouths, Scott Brown, Michele Bachmann, Ron Paul, John McCain, Mitch McConnell, Mike Pence and Bobby Jindal. .



hypocrite nothing. thats exactly how I want my elected official to act. Vote against something that is only going to bring us into further debt and have little impact overall, but once it's forced upon us i want him to bite ans scrape to get every dollar spent in my location. If my tax dollars are going to be spent in bogus 'stimulus' i want them spent locally to me.


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## LAM (Nov 26, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> hypocrite nothing. thats exactly how I want my elected official to act. Vote against something that is only going to bring us into further debt and have little impact overall, but once it's forced upon us i want him to bite ans scrape to get every dollar spent in my location. If my tax dollars are going to be spent in bogus 'stimulus' i want them spent locally to me.



but they aren't against it to begin with, they just "claim" to be to get the vote of the fiscal conservatives who obviously have the long term memory comparable to that of the gnat.  republicans LOVE to spend they just have to make the Dems look bad while doing and trick the uneducated masses that what they are doing is good for the middle class.  the funny thing that people never pick up on is you never hear the GOP talk about putting more money into the hands of the middle class all they talk about is spending and deficits.  

the likely effects of the John Boehner "Plan"

http://www.epi.org/page/-/pdf/pm171.pdf


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## GearsMcGilf (Nov 26, 2010)

So that makes it okay for this administration to take the reckless spending to unprecedented levels?  I guess two wrongs to make a right then.


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## LAM (Nov 26, 2010)

Bush spent those monies before Obama was even sworn in..

Critics Still Wrong on What

Breaking Down the Deficit

Bush Deficit Hurting Obama: Reports


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## bio-chem (Nov 26, 2010)

LAM said:


> but they aren't against it to begin with, they just "claim" to be to get the vote of the fiscal conservatives who obviously have the long term memory comparable to that of the gnat.  republicans LOVE to spend they just have to make the Dems look bad while doing and trick the uneducated masses that what they are doing is good for the middle class.  the funny thing that people never pick up on is you never hear the GOP talk about putting more money into the hands of the middle class all they talk about is spending and deficits.
> 
> the likely effects of the John Boehner "Plan"
> 
> http://www.epi.org/page/-/pdf/pm171.pdf



against it or not they voted against it. thats what i care about. i don't care what they are for or against personally as long as they vote how I want them to.


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## LAM (Nov 27, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> against it or not they voted against it. thats what i care about. i don't care what they are for or against personally as long as they vote how I want them to.



just wondering, with the poorest middle class since the great depression and with an economy based on middle class consumption and spending.  where do the monies come from to keep the economy moving if the Fed doesn't spend?


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## min0 lee (Nov 27, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> So that makes it okay for this administration to take the reckless spending to unprecedented levels?





LAM said:


> Bush spent those monies before Obama was even sworn in..



I am trying to figure out how come no one complained about Bushes spending at that time?
In fact Obama has been accused of following his same spending.


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## LAM (Nov 27, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> I am trying to figure out how come no one complained about Bushes spending at that time?
> In fact Obama has been accused of following his same spending.



most of the current deficit and forecasts are carry over from GWB.  Bush Tax Cuts, Iraq, Afghanistan and the Prescription Drug Act (Medicare Part D) will account for 7T in deficits from 2010-2020. the Dems have to deal with all of that plus decreased tax revenues during recession and increased deficit spending (stimulus, etc.) to keep the economy going.


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## Zaphod (Nov 27, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> I am trying to figure out how come no one complained about Bushes spending at that time?
> In fact Obama has been accused of following his same spending.



That's the dirty little secret conservatives don't like to talk about.


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## LAM (Nov 27, 2010)

Zaphod said:


> That's the dirty little secret conservatives don't like to talk about.



it's the same old tricks.  conservatives use the deficit as a means to target programs and agency's they don't like with reductions it's a means to defund the left.  the same thing happened to Clinton he had to deal with a massive deficit left to him by Bush Sr and he couldn't enact a lot of the economic promises that he campaigned on.  a lot of these economic policies like bad tax cuts for the wealthy have very long lasting and dramatic effect on the budget deficit.


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## GearsMcGilf (Nov 27, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> I am trying to figure out how come no one complained about Bushes spending at that time?
> In fact Obama has been accused of following his same spending.



You just weren't listening then.  Everyone was complaining.  The democrats are doing exactly what they were bashing Bush for for 8 years, only taking it to levels never seen in the history of civilization, such as a 3.8T budget 40% of which is borrowed.  I wonder if our credit line with China is maxed out yet.  Once that happens, this country is in serious shit, which your ideology and political spin won't solve.  We only thought things looked bad for Greece when we had to go back to China to borrow $ to pay our 17% share of the IMF's bailout money for them.  Unfortunately, there's not going to be anyone to bail us out.  

It's not a matter of if, but when.  Maybe that's what it will take for us to stop worrying about D's & R's, class warfare, wealthy envy, and all the other stupid ideologies that get in the way of real world solutions.


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## LAM (Nov 27, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> The democrats are doing exactly what they were bashing Bush for for 8 years, only taking it to levels never seen in the history of civilization, such as a 3.8T budget 40% of which is borrowed.



that's pretty much the exact opposite of what the CBO report says for 2009-2019....the ball was already rolling on those numbers before Obama was even sworn in.

Congress of The United States Congressional Budget Office
The Budget and Economic Outlook: Fiscal Years 2009 to 2019
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9957/01-07-Outlook.pdf


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## bio-chem (Nov 27, 2010)

LAM said:


> just wondering, with the poorest middle class since the great depression and with an economy based on middle class consumption and spending.  where do the monies come from to keep the economy moving if the Fed doesn't spend?



The federal government needs to spend. legitimately. like on roads and infrastructure and the military. things we can't do for ourselves. the federal stimulus is a joke. the problems with it are well documented. what i want is for the government to lower the corporate tax rate and get business to grow the middle class.


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 27, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> You just weren't listening then.  Everyone was complaining.  The democrats are doing exactly what they were bashing Bush for for 8 years, only taking it to levels never seen in the history of civilization, such as a 3.8T budget 40% of which is borrowed.  I wonder if our credit line with China is maxed out yet.  Once that happens, this country is in serious shit, which your ideology and political spin won't solve.  We only thought things looked bad for Greece when we had to go back to China to borrow $ to pay our 17% share of the IMF's bailout money for them.  Unfortunately, there's not going to be anyone to bail us out.
> 
> It's not a matter of if, but when.  Maybe that's what it will take for us to stop worrying about D's & R's, class warfare, wealthy envy, and all the other stupid ideologies that get in the way of real world solutions.



You're joking, right?  You can't see a difference between spending $7T on nation building in Iraq and Afghanistan and spending $1.7T on stimulating the US economy by upgrading infrastructure and extending jobless benefits?  I never once heard any discussion on trimming the budget between 2000-2008 and now all of a sudden it's an issue?  The GOP's solution to cutting our debt is to make cuts to projects that make up like 2% of the budget and then extend a tax cut we couldn't afford in the first place, tacking $3.3T on to the budget over 10 years.  How can you not look at that and realize that it is utterly retarded and cannot, in any way, be successful?


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## vortrit (Nov 27, 2010)

Cool. Because America don't have it's own problems and needs to be the world police, as usual...


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## min0 lee (Nov 27, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> You're joking, right?  You can't see a difference between spending $7T on nation building in Iraq and Afghanistan and spending $1.7T on stimulating the US economy by upgrading infrastructure and extending jobless benefits?  I never once heard any discussion on trimming the budget between 2000-2008 and now all of a sudden it's an issue?  The GOP's solution to cutting our debt is to make cuts to projects that make up like 2% of the budget and then extend a tax cut we couldn't afford in the first place, tacking $3.3T on to the budget over 10 years.  How can you not look at that and realize that it is utterly retarded and cannot, in any way, be successful?



What he said.


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## GearsMcGilf (Nov 27, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> What he said.



NOPE!  I was against going into Iraq from day 1.  I actually voted against GWB in 2004 solely because of this.  As much as I hated to vote for a complete d-bag like Kerry, I felt that because of the BS reasons we were fed for going into Iraq, he didn't deserve a 2nd term.  All we ever needed to do after 9/11 was to bomb the everliving fuck out of the Taliban and leave.  The idea that we can invade a 3rd world islamic cesspool like Iraq (which was never even a real country to begin with) and create some kind of western style democratic society was absurd on its face.  

That's another thing that pisses me off about Barry.  He campaigned on ending the war, yet he's ramping up operations in Afghanistan, which is an even bigger joke to think that there will ever be a stable, democratic government that can control the entire "country".  That place is not even a country.  It's a giant land mass centered in the middle of other countries.  The people speak different languages, majority are illiterate, and they don't get along.  The only thing they have in common is that they hate us.  All we ever needed to do after 9/11 was to bomb the everliving fuck out of the Taliban and leave.  We should never have and shouldn't be spending trillions on nation building.


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## LAM (Nov 27, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> That's another thing that pisses me off about Barry.  He campaigned on ending the war, yet he's ramping up operations in Afghanistan, which is an even bigger joke to think that there will ever be a stable, democratic government that can control the entire "country".  That place is not even a country.  It's a giant land mass centered in the middle of other countries.  The people speak different languages, majority are illiterate, and they don't get along.  The only thing they have in common is that they hate us.  All we ever needed to do after 9/11 was to bomb the everliving fuck out of the Taliban and leave.  We should never have and shouldn't be spending trillions on nation building.



The troop withdrawl in Iraq went as scheduled per the us iraq status of forces agreement signed by GWB with the time-line proposed by the Democrats.  The US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and we certainly can't just "roll-up" and leave both countries worst off then when we got there and expect the rest of the world to be behind is in future endeavors of these natures.


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## Arnold (Nov 27, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> NOPE!  I was against going into Iraq from day 1.  I actually voted against GWB in 2004 solely because of this.  As much as I hated to vote for a complete d-bag like Kerry, I felt that because of the BS reasons we were fed for going into Iraq, he didn't deserve a 2nd term.  All we ever needed to do after 9/11 was to bomb the everliving fuck out of the Taliban and leave.  The idea that we can invade a 3rd world islamic cesspool like Iraq (which was never even a real country to begin with) and create some kind of western style democratic society was absurd on its face.
> 
> That's another thing that pisses me off about Barry.  He campaigned on ending the war, yet he's ramping up operations in Afghanistan, which is an even bigger joke to think that there will ever be a stable, democratic government that can control the entire "country".  That place is not even a country.  It's a giant land mass centered in the middle of other countries.  The people speak different languages, majority are illiterate, and they don't get along.  The only thing they have in common is that they hate us.  All we ever needed to do after 9/11 was to bomb the everliving fuck out of the Taliban and leave.  We should never have and shouldn't be spending trillions on nation building.


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## GearsMcGilf (Nov 27, 2010)

LAM said:


> The troop withdrawl in Iraq went as scheduled per the us iraq status of forces agreement signed by GWB with the time-line proposed by the Democrats.  The US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and we certainly can't just "roll-up" and leave both countries worst off then when we got there and expect the rest of the world to be behind is in future endeavors of these natures.



Yes, but the troop withdraw plan was not something that was drawn up by the democrats when Bush was prez.  Come on bro.  You're way too smart to think that.  It was a plan that was drawn up and agreed upon by our military and the new Iraqi govt.  Obama just followed suit, which was the right decision.  I sure as hell don't fault him for that.  I just think we need to gtfo of Afghanistan.  We only thought Iraq was a quagmire.  I don't think we will ever see the same results there.


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## lnvanry (Nov 27, 2010)

LAM said:


> The troop withdrawl in Iraq went as scheduled per the us iraq status of forces agreement signed by GWB with the time-line proposed by the Democrats.  The US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and we certainly can't just "roll-up" and leave both countries worst off then when we got there and expect the rest of the world to be behind is in future endeavors of these natures.






We did once in Afghanistan against the Soviets and look at the outcome (Taliban).


And the 1.7T that injected into the economy for TARP and stimulus didn't exactly create the jobs the country needs.  It created many gov't jobs (which are part of the budget problem b/c gov't workers come with ridiculous legacy costs).  The money that was created via treasury lending and put fourth to banks is compounded by 91% due to our fractional reserve lending system.  (1T lent from the FED to the banks creates roughly 10T in total debt).

The money spent on the Iraq and Afghan war is a drop in the bucket compared to the other spending in the financial sector of the past 2yrs (this doesn't include the auto or energy sector either)

COSTOFWAR.COM - The Cost of War

a higher estimation:

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

The other catch is the money spent in the financial sector...didn't even create more jobs or free up credit to incentivize lending, thus stimulating the economy.  It just put bandaids on massive wounds on banks' balance sheets.  At least the money spent on the wars in the middle east, boosted jobs related to the defense sectors, rare earth metals sector, construction, and soon to be energy (once Iraqi oil fields are carved up).


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## lnvanry (Nov 27, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Yes, but the troop withdraw plan was not something that was drawn up by the democrats when Bush was prez.  Come on bro.  You're way too smart to think that.  It was a plan that was drawn up and agreed upon by our military and the new Iraqi govt.  Obama just followed suit, which was the right decision.  I sure as hell don't fault him for that.  I just think we need to gtfo of Afghanistan.  We only thought Iraq was a quagmire.  I don't think we will ever see the same results there.



Obama had nothing to do with...LAM didn't even mention him even mention Obama


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## Zaphod (Nov 27, 2010)

lnvanry said:


> The other catch is the money spent in the financial sector...didn't even create more jobs or free up credit to incentivize lending, thus stimulating the economy.  It just put bandaids on massive wounds on banks' balance sheets.  At least the money spent on the wars in the middle east, boosted jobs related to the defense sectors, rare earth metals sector, construction, and soon to be energy (once Iraqi oil fields are carved up).



It also helped the banks pay out massive bonuses to their executives.  Gotta retain that top talent that ran them into the ground!


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## LAM (Nov 27, 2010)

one of the major problems with the cost of wars in industrialized nations today is there is no actual return on your investment (ROI) only an increased annual military budget and corresponding budget deficit for years down the road.  war or even long term combat operations in the middle east or the like is essential sinking money into a "money pit" with no ROI. WWII was only a prosperous war to the US because it essentially ended the great depression by putting many average working people back to work which then increases tax revenues at the state and federal levels.  revenues have have only hit the 20% of GDP mark 3 years since WWII and this was 1998-2000 when the US was actually making a progress in real GDP during the Internet boom.

right now this is the major problem that we have is job creation at basically the average wage earner level.  the basic recovery model is from the top down which will be the slowest method of recovery.  not until the average workers are back to work and tax revenues rise will state and federal budgets even start to get out of the red.  with unemloyment high, job losses continuing, companies paying less in corporate gains taxes from reductions in profits, etc.   there are numerous causes as to why the deficit grows so rapidly when there truly isn't a lot of "spending" going on.

Gears has made a comment earlier about unspent TARP monies you have to remember those are different from the monies slated and spent on the actual economic stimulus and recovery act.  not quite sure why those monies couldn't now be used to fund state unemployment benefits, etc.


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## lnvanry (Nov 27, 2010)

LAM said:


> one of the major problems with the cost of wars in industrialized nations today is there is no actual return on your investment (ROI) only an increased annual military budget and corresponding budget deficit for years down the road.  war or even long term combat operations in the middle east or the like is essential sinking money into a "money pit" with no ROI. WWII was only a prosperous war to the US because it essentially ended the great depression by putting many average working people back to work which then increases tax revenues at the state and federal levels.  revenues have have only hit the 20% of GDP mark 3 years since WWII and this was 1998-2000 when the US was actually making a progress in real GDP during the Internet boom.
> 
> right now this is the major problem that we have is job creation at basically the average wage earner level.  the basic recovery model is from the top down which will be the slowest method of recovery.  not until the average workers are back to work and tax revenues rise will state and federal budgets even start to get out of the red.  with unemloyment high, job losses continuing, companies paying less in corporate gains taxes from reductions in profits, etc.   there are numerous causes as to why the deficit grows so rapidly when there truly isn't a lot of "spending" going on.
> 
> Gears has made a comment earlier about unspent TARP monies you have to remember those are different from the monies slated and spent on the actual economic stimulus and recovery act.  not quite sure why those monies couldn't now be used to fund state unemployment benefits, etc.




I need to preface here, I'm not advocating for war in any shape

There are plenty of ROI benefits from war, like technological advancement (I've listed them on this site plenty of times) and increased access to natural resources.  The war in the Middle East has potential to turn into a sunk cost, but it certainly has the potential to turn into a huge return as well.


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## DEATH MATCH (Nov 28, 2010)

Wow liberalism at its best in here. First off you Palin haters dont really have a clue on who she is and what she as done and what she truly stands for. And what the liberal media who is so threaten by her does to her and her family on a daily basis. You liberals forget that this idiot barry doesnt have a ounce of experience. He was a freshman senator and 6 months into his term he then was asked by that scum pelosi to run. So if its a experience thing you liberals need to look up who has accomplished more in politics but you liberals tend to forget that.Now lets give the liberals a lesson in politics 101 and the bush haters. Ok dont miss this,The democrats controlled congress which passed bush's bills. Now for those that dont know. Congress has a house and senate and both of those houses were controlled by the majority of Democrats which voted on Bush bills and the majority democrats passed those bills which inflatted the debt. Now thats for those bush haters who keep blamming bush but in a factual real world it was the majority controlled Democrats that raised the debt by passing those bills.Was that simple enough for liberals to understand. Now in 2008 when Barry got elected he has raisd the debt more then every president put together in history from #1 to this idiot thats a fact. Now the people have spoken and made a historical day when they gave the Republicans controll of the house by a histrical numbers across this great country. Now for those who dont know. There has been no president to ever win a presidency that didnt win Ohio and that state turned red big time red along with a whole shit load of key battle ground states. The tea party who will come out even bigger in the 2012 election,Dont you think they will get behind Palin and the other Republicans will get behind Palin if she wins the republican party nod for president. You liberals under estimate this women and are afraid of the power she has. But reme,mber this,The country turned red big time again which puts a huge problem for barry. But you liberals and Obermann msnbc lovers keep it up for the republicans because whether its palin or any other repuiblican he will lose. Remember the battle ground states barry won in 2008 that he los last month which changes the districts in each state big time.Oh and the failed Omnibus,stimulis,unemployment will keep getting higher and our economy will keep getting worse. You keep bashing palin you just dont know politics then. Did I mention that idiot Biden,lol


----------



## bio-chem (Nov 28, 2010)

^^^I'm a full throated conservative and want palin no where near the republican ticket in 2012. no how no way. she gets the nod and obama gets 4 years more and doesn't even have to leave the white house to campaign.


----------



## min0 lee (Nov 28, 2010)

LOL, a Palin supporter..hahahaha!!!


----------



## LAM (Nov 28, 2010)

lnvanry said:


> I need to preface here, I'm not advocating for war in any shape
> 
> There are plenty of ROI benefits from war, like technological advancement (I've listed them on this site plenty of times) and increased access to natural resources.  The war in the Middle East has potential to turn into a sunk cost, but it certainly has the potential to turn into a huge return as well.



those technological advances that you speak off don't have any effect on real GDP or increasing jobs so who are they helping?


----------



## LAM (Nov 28, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> Oh and the failed Omnibus,stimulis,unemployment will keep getting higher and our economy will keep getting worse. You keep bashing palin you just dont know politics then. Did I mention that idiot Biden,lol



all of the CBO reports say the exact opposite of the supposed "data" from the right regarding the effects of the economic stimulus and the REAL causes of continued increases in unemployment and the increase in the federal budget deficit.

Congress of the United States Congressional Budget Office
The Budget and Economic Outlook: Fiscal Years 2009 to 2019
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9957/01-07-Outlook.pdf


----------



## bio-chem (Nov 28, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> LOL, a Palin supporter..hahahaha!!!



thats not funny mino 

thats scary


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Nov 28, 2010)

Werd!  Palin needs to just go back to Alaska.  She doesn't need to be on the repub ticket in 2012.  She probably just about the only republican that Obama would have any chance of beating when he runs for re-election.  Although, it wouldn't be surprising at all if he were challenged for the nom by someone else in how own party and lost it, given the fact that he is the least qualified ever to hold the office, the worst president since GWB, and quite possibly the worst president ever.  Partisan hacks like LAM who still defend him are few and far b/w nowadays.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Nov 28, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> LOL, a Palin supporter..hahahaha!!!



I didn't even know they could use computers or electronics of any sort, I figured they just asked God and s/he just gave them the information they were looking for.


----------



## lnvanry (Nov 28, 2010)

LAM said:


> those technological advances that you speak off don't have any effect on real GDP or increasing jobs so who are they helping?



come on bud....the internet, gps, radio frequency, microwave, semi conductor (microchip)

In a more modern sense, laser technology, directed energy, advanced aeronautics, optics, advanced robotics (SARCOS)....


I can conceded that the modern cases have't exactly spurred new industries, but give it time for the black box tech to be commercialized.  The internet was invented in the early 70s, but wasn't set fourth commercially from DARPA (at the time called ARPA) until the late 80s....same with GPS


----------



## lnvanry (Nov 28, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> Wow liberalism at its best in here. First off you Palin haters dont really have a clue on who she is and what she as done and what she truly stands for. And what the liberal media who is so threaten by her does to her and her family on a daily basis. You liberals forget that this idiot barry doesnt have a ounce of experience. He was a freshman senator and 6 months into his term he then was asked by that scum pelosi to run. So if its a experience thing you liberals need to look up who has accomplished more in politics but you liberals tend to forget that.Now lets give the liberals a lesson in politics 101 and the bush haters. Ok dont miss this,The democrats controlled congress which passed bush's bills. Now for those that dont know. Congress has a house and senate and both of those houses were controlled by the majority of Democrats which voted on Bush bills and the majority democrats passed those bills which inflatted the debt. Now thats for those bush haters who keep blamming bush but in a factual real world it was the majority controlled Democrats that raised the debt by passing those bills.Was that simple enough for liberals to understand. Now in 2008 when Barry got elected he has raisd the debt more then every president put together in history from #1 to this idiot thats a fact. Now the people have spoken and made a historical day when they gave the Republicans controll of the house by a histrical numbers across this great country. Now for those who dont know. There has been no president to ever win a presidency that didnt win Ohio and that state turned red big time red along with a whole shit load of key battle ground states. The tea party who will come out even bigger in the 2012 election,Dont you think they will get behind Palin and the other Republicans will get behind Palin if she wins the republican party nod for president. You liberals under estimate this women and are afraid of the power she has. But reme,mber this,The country turned red big time again which puts a huge problem for barry. But you liberals and Obermann msnbc lovers keep it up for the republicans because whether its palin or any other repuiblican he will lose. Remember the battle ground states barry won in 2008 that he los last month which changes the districts in each state big time.Oh and the failed Omnibus,stimulis,unemployment will keep getting higher and our economy will keep getting worse. You keep bashing palin you just dont know politics then. Did I mention that idiot Biden,lol





extreme right or extreme left....most of us don't fall into the MSNBC vs FOX model.  Glad to see you've found a cozy seat there though


----------



## LAM (Nov 28, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Partisan hacks like LAM who still defend him are few and far b/w nowadays.



sorry but the truth hurts the economic policies of the GOP are based purely on bull-shit.  you guys are still selling supply-side theory's and you are a business major, wow...

my guess is you couldn't handle the truth that's in black in white in the CBO Report for 2009-2019.

Pages 9-16 pretty much explain where the 1.7T deficit came from
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9957/01-07-Outlook.pdf

and more info

Economic Downturn, Financial Rescues, and Bush-Era Policies Drive the Numbers
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036#_ftn2


----------



## LAM (Nov 28, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Although, it wouldn't be surprising at all if he were challenged for the nom by someone else in how own party and lost it, given the fact that he is the least qualified ever to hold the office, the worst president since GWB, and quite possibly the worst president ever.  Partisan hacks like LAM who still defend him are few and far b/w nowadays.



as typical of those on the far right your arguments are based purely on your opinion and not a shred of fact.  I can spend the next 10 years posting data and facts on how the supply-side economic policies of the GOP have done irreparable damage to middle class and the economic system in the US all from CBO reports...where is the data to support your facts?


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Nov 28, 2010)

I guaranty you that I will be able to find information that will support my right wing biases.  Just give me some time.  There's plenty of info on World Net Daily.  You just wait.


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Nov 28, 2010)

Investigation: Obama likely not eligible

Turns out all of the info is moot anyway.  He's not even eligible to hold the office.


----------



## bio-chem (Nov 28, 2010)

LAM said:


> sorry but the truth hurts the economic policies of the GOP are based purely on bull-shit.  you guys are still selling supply-side theory's and you are a business major, wow...
> 
> my guess is you couldn't handle the truth that's in black in white in the CBO Report for 2009-2019.
> 
> ...



please tell me you are joking? you directed us to a report 50 pages long and are pointing to 7 pages of it? 7 pages obama himself hasn't read. and the reason he hasn't read it..........its a report on projections 10 years out that is never, ever, ever even remotely close to anything sort of accurate.


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Nov 28, 2010)

That is silly.  7 pages that lend some credibility to Obama if projections happen to be accurate that are made about the distant future.  But hey, if it supports Obama, it must be accurate.


----------



## LAM (Nov 28, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> That is silly.  7 pages that lend some credibility to Obama if projections happen to be accurate that are made about the distant future.  But hey, if it supports Obama, it must be accurate.



read the whole report then..so now the CBO isn't credible!  your excuses are pathetic...the CBO is where the House, Senate and everyone else in the world gets their economic data about the US ..this shows exactly how much you truly know and understand about economics and politics if you doubt a report from the CBO.


----------



## LAM (Nov 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> please tell me you are joking? you directed us to a report 50 pages long and are pointing to 7 pages of it? 7 pages obama himself hasn't read. and the reason he hasn't read it..........its a report on projections 10 years out that is never, ever, ever even remotely close to anything sort of accurate.



So I guess this report is bullshit to:
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/105xx/doc10521/2009BudgetUpdate_Summary.pdf

and this one:

Health Care
http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/health.cfm

and this:

Estimated Impact of the American Recovery and
Reinvestment Act on Employment and
Economic Output From
July 2010 Through September 2010
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/119xx/doc11975/11-24-ARRA.pdf


----------



## LAM (Nov 28, 2010)

and one more contribution to the deficit by GWB

Medicare Part D
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/61xx/doc6113/BartonLtr2-16-05.pdf


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Nov 28, 2010)

LAM said:


> and one more contribution to the deficit by GWB
> 
> Medicare Part D
> http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/61xx/doc6113/BartonLtr2-16-05.pdf



Yes, conservatives were pretty upset about this.  But, it's certainly ironic to hear libs complaining about a program to provide rx coverage to the elderly.  Bush really shouldn't have pushed for this as a way to throw the dems a bone.  He was going to be damned if he did and damned if he didn't.  BTW, please also share the CBO information that tells us how Obama's HC plan is going to lower costs.


----------



## bio-chem (Nov 28, 2010)

LAM said:


> read the whole report then..so now the CBO isn't credible!  your excuses are pathetic...the CBO is where the House, Senate and everyone else in the world gets their economic data about the US ..this shows exactly how much you truly know and understand about economics and politics if you doubt a report from the CBO.



show me an accurate CBO and I'll stop posting in this thread, and recognize you as IM"s reigning authority on economics. 

Honestly. lets look at any CBO in history and compare them to just how far off they truly were. It's simply not possible to project out anything in this economy 10 years in the future. If it was we would never have to worry about recessions because we would see them 10 years in advance and make corrections before they ever happened.

It's truly comforting to me to know that the house, senate and everyone in the world get their economic data about the US from a 50 page document that has never been right as it attempts to guess about where we will be in 10 years. The CBO is about as accurate as an NFL mock draft. you might get the first two picks right, but Tim Tebow should have never gone in the first round.


----------



## bio-chem (Nov 28, 2010)

LAM you are posting the right stuff to help support your theories, but not recognizing the limitations of the CBO just goes to highlight your inability to think rationally. also this is a body building forum. telling someone to read 7 pages of the CBO makes about as much sense as volunteering to go to the state penn. for R&R


----------



## LAM (Nov 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> LAM you are posting the right stuff to help support your theories, but not recognizing the limitations of the CBO just goes to highlight your inability to think rationally. also this is a body building forum. telling someone to read 7 pages of the CBO makes about as much sense as volunteering to go to the state penn. for R&R



this is why the GOP thrives on the ignorance of it's supporters.  lol at the CBO not being accurate, that's laughable.  the data at the BEA website backs up most things discussed in CBO reports.


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Nov 28, 2010)

So the CBO has been accurate year after year in predicting economic conditions years in the future?


----------



## bio-chem (Nov 28, 2010)

LAM said:


> this is why the GOP thrives on the ignorance of it's supporters.  lol at the CBO not being accurate, that's laughable.  the data at the BEA website backs up most things discussed in CBO reports.



feel free to take me up on my offer then if it's so accurate.

try not to talk about the ignorance of the GOP supporters too much when it was well documented in the last election the people who voted for President Obama while not knowing any of his positions.


----------



## bio-chem (Nov 28, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> So the CBO has been accurate year after year in predicting economic conditions years in the future?



sure, didn't everyone know sept 10th 2001 the stock market would shortly take a huge crash? I'm sure in the 2004 CBO the housing market crash was clearly defined


----------



## LAM (Nov 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> feel free to take me up on my offer then if it's so accurate.
> 
> try not to talk about the ignorance of the GOP supporters too much when it was well documented in the last election the people who voted for President Obama while not knowing any of his positions.



electoral votes get Presidents elected


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Nov 28, 2010)

You're not supposed to argue with it if it's put out by the Federal Govt.  The CBO can not be flawed, even when predicting economic conditions 10 years out.  Shows how ignorant you are if you would argue with it.  After all, the CBO accurately predicted the collapse of the housing market some time in 2001, but George Bush didn't do anything about it.
Obama on the other hand, like all democrats, is the smartest man to hold the office since Clinton, who was the smartest since Carter.


----------



## LAM (Nov 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> sure, didn't everyone know sept 10th 2001 the stock market would shortly take a huge crash? I'm sure in the 2004 CBO the housing market crash was clearly defined



the CBO has what to do exactly with wallstreet?  

maybe first find out what it is and does by definition the CBO is the primary congressional agency charged with reviewing congressional budgets and other legislative initiatives with budgetary implications, that is it.  you bash the validity of the CBO and you don't even know what the hell they are or do.

CBO's Role in the Budget Process
http://www.cbo.gov/aboutCBO/budgetprocess.cfm

Staffing and Organization
http://www.cbo.gov/aboutcbo/organization/


----------



## lnvanry (Nov 28, 2010)

this thread got way too hackish


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Nov 28, 2010)

LAM is just being objective.  Despite the record, Obama is a very successful president and quite possibly the best pres since Jimmy Carter.


----------



## bio-chem (Nov 28, 2010)

LAM said:


> electoral votes get Presidents elected



what does that have to do with the millions of ignorant fucks who showed support for obama by voting for him while not knowing shit about his policies?

are you now arguing that because of the electoral college we shouldn't have presidential elections? just let the electoral college take care of it?


----------



## bio-chem (Nov 28, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> You're not supposed to argue with it if it's put out by the Federal Govt.  The CBO can not be flawed, even when predicting economic conditions 10 years out.  Shows how ignorant you are if you would argue with it.  After all, the CBO accurately predicted the collapse of the housing market some time in 2001, but George Bush didn't do anything about it.
> Obama on the other hand, like all democrats, is the smartest man to hold the office since Clinton, who was the smartest since Carter.


----------



## LAM (Nov 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> what does that have to do with the millions of ignorant fucks who showed support for obama by voting for him while not knowing shit about his policies?
> 
> are you now arguing that because of the electoral college we shouldn't have presidential elections? just let the electoral college take care of it?



the popular vote is moot when it comes to elected presidents, it pretty much serves the same purpose as the House of Representatives, it's the illusion of having a real voice in the political process.


----------



## bio-chem (Nov 28, 2010)

LAM said:


> the CBO has what to do exactly with wallstreet?
> 
> maybe first find out what it is and does by definition the CBO is the primary congressional agency charged with reviewing congressional budgets and other legislative initiatives with budgetary implications, that is it.  you bash the validity of the CBO and you don't even know what the hell they are or do.
> 
> ...



Well despite your infantile attempts to assume I don't know about the CBO lets all bring it back to the topic of you avoiding the fact that the projections have never been anywhere close to correct. my offer still stands. show me i'm wrong and ill leave the thread and declare you IM's economic savant.


----------



## irish_2003 (Nov 28, 2010)

this thread was originally about how our next president gov palin "misspoke" and accidentally said n korea when she meant s korea......she knew what she meant....hell we all misspeak and call some things different all the time.....at least she speaks truthfully and doesn't read word for word from a teleprompter........the world better get ready for her and begin to support her, because she's gonna bring it if she does decide to run and she's a lot smarter than people give her credit for


----------



## bio-chem (Nov 28, 2010)

LAM said:


> the popular vote is moot when it comes to elected presidents, it pretty much serves the same purpose as the House of Representatives, it's the illusion of having a real voice in the political process.



so now you are arguing that the house of representatives is an "illusion of having a real voice in the political process" I'm sure your butt buddy nanci pelosi will love to hear that


----------



## bio-chem (Nov 28, 2010)

irish_2003 said:


> this thread was originally about how our next president gov palin "misspoke" and accidentally said n korea when she meant s korea......she knew what she meant....hell we all misspeak and call some things different all the time.....at least she speaks truthfully and doesn't read word for word from a teleprompter........the world better get ready for her and begin to support her, because she's gonna bring it if she does decide to run and she's a lot smarter than people give her credit for



no, she really isn't. she could be a member of mensa for all i care but as a conservative leaning voter I do not want her on the republican ticket. i don't want her running my country, and feel that she is so frowned upon by the middle that it would send the people running back towards barrack obama who i can't stand one bit. we need a real republican candidate who can beat obama. palin isn't it.


----------



## LAM (Nov 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> Well despite your infantile attempts to assume I don't know about the CBO lets all bring it back to the topic of you avoiding the fact that the projections have never been anywhere close to correct. my offer still stands. show me i'm wrong and ill leave the thread and declare you IM's economic savant.



The Prediction for 2009

The Budget and Economic Outlook:
An Update
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/105xx/doc10521/2009BudgetUpdate_Summary.pdf

The Actual Budge Deficit for 2009
See Table F-1
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10871/historicaltables.pdf


----------



## irish_2003 (Nov 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> no, she really isn't. she could be a member of mensa for all i care but as a conservative leaning voter I do not want her on the republican ticket. i don't want her running my country, and feel that she is so frowned upon by the middle that it would send the people running back towards barrack obama who i can't stand one bit. we need a real republican candidate who can beat obama. palin isn't it.



honestly, i'm still hoping that rep paul ryan (hometown hero) will reconsider and run or at least be on the ticket as a vp with jindal,pawlenty, or another of the gop's top individuals


----------



## LAM (Nov 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> Well despite your infantile attempts to assume I don't know about the CBO lets all bring it back to the topic of you avoiding the fact that the projections have never been anywhere close to correct. my offer still stands. show me i'm wrong and ill leave the thread and declare you IM's economic savant.



never claimed to be such but what I don't do is pull opinion out of my ass and try to pass it off as factual evidence, like many do...


----------



## bio-chem (Nov 28, 2010)

LAM said:


> The Prediction for 2009
> 
> The Budget and Economic Outlook:
> An Update
> ...



 

congratulations just like I said an NFL mock draft would be it got the first 2 picks correct. or in this case, only the first pick. how close do you really think it will be in 2019 to the 722 billion projected deficit? you win though. i shall not return to this thread.


----------



## LAM (Nov 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> congratulations just like I said an NFL mock draft would be it got the first 2 picks correct. or in this case, only the first pick. how close do you really think it will be in 2019 to the 722 billion projected deficit? you win though. i shall not return to this thread.



in terms of predictions you aren't going to get much better than an expected 1.6T and an actual budget deficit of 1.4T.  I guess they are supposed to nail it to the dollar?


----------



## DEATH MATCH (Nov 28, 2010)

LAM said:


> all of the CBO reports say the exact opposite of the supposed "data" from the right regarding the effects of the economic stimulus and the REAL causes of continued increases in unemployment and the increase in the federal budget deficit.
> 
> 
> 
> And thats were your liberalism gets into the way of your thinking and not knowing the truth. You dont have to be a rocket scientis to know that the stimulis or omnibus did not work. Wheres the jobs why is unemployment getting higher.You liberals want to spin it twist it any way you can. But wont acknowledge the truth that like I said barry has raised the debt more then any president and all it did was create more debt and it didnt work. Cbo give me a break. That is so lame for a liberal to say that. You liberals keep avoiding the truth and think spending is the way. Liberals make me sick. All you want to do is give to the poor and keep everyone on food stamps and think the Gov should pay for everything. Well guess what since no liberal even came close to getting into facts of what I posted proves my point,None of you liberals cant,because the truth I stated is just that the truth. Unemployment isnt going over 8% those were the idiots words and guess what his 2 years was a failure and like I said the people voted and it showed, Buy you liberals think that Palin is a joke. Let me give some more facts here again just incase some of you missed it. Barry has NO experience. 6 months into his freshman senator job he was asked to run so wheres the experienced,None thats where and now 2 years later it showed.He failed on his asia trip he couldnt get it done. You all uner estimate this womens power and what she has behind her. If she wins the nomination for the republicans and the country is in the same state as its now or even a little better you can bet the farm barry willm lose. And the millions of people and millions of tea partiers will come out in droves for her. Lets give a example,Her show the first episode a TLC channel historic number of watchers 5 million viewers have watched each show. 15 million viewers in 3 shows. No other show on TLC has even came cose to her numbers. She is what we need a true reagan concervative with constituion values. I would love to see this community activist bary shoot a shot gun or gut a halibut or gut a deer .He's another jimmy carter failure and histiory shall repeat itself and he will only be a 1 term president. I would bet the farm on it. But all you michael moore obermann liberals keep thinking your going to win. This country has had enough of barrys shit and his failures and this last election proved that. .


----------



## LAM (Nov 29, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> LAM said:
> 
> 
> > all of the CBO reports say the exact opposite of the supposed "data" from the right regarding the effects of the economic stimulus and the REAL causes of continued increases in unemployment and the increase in the federal budget deficit.
> ...


----------



## IronAddict (Nov 29, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> Wow liberalism at its best in here. *First off you Palin haters dont really have a clue on who she is and what she as done and what she truly stands for*. And what the liberal media who is so threaten by her does to her and her family on a daily basis. You liberals forget that this idiot barry doesnt have a ounce of experience. He was a freshman senator and 6 months into his term he then was asked by that scum pelosi to run. So if its a experience thing you liberals need to look up who has accomplished more in politics but you liberals tend to forget that.Now lets give the liberals a lesson in politics 101 and the bush haters. Ok dont miss this,The democrats controlled congress which passed bush's bills. Now for those that dont know. Congress has a house and senate and both of those houses were controlled by the majority of Democrats which voted on Bush bills and the majority democrats passed those bills which inflatted the debt. Now thats for those bush haters who keep blamming bush but in a factual real world it was the majority controlled Democrats that raised the debt by passing those bills.Was that simple enough for liberals to understand. Now in 2008 when Barry got elected he has raisd the debt more then every president put together in history from #1 to this idiot thats a fact. Now the people have spoken and made a historical day when they gave the Republicans controll of the house by a histrical numbers across this great country. Now for those who dont know. There has been no president to ever win a presidency that didnt win Ohio and that state turned red big time red along with a whole shit load of key battle ground states. The tea party who will come out even bigger in the 2012 election,Dont you think they will get behind Palin and the other Republicans will get behind Palin if she wins the republican party nod for president. You liberals under estimate this women and are afraid of the power she has. But reme,mber this,The country turned red big time again which puts a huge problem for barry. But you liberals and Obermann msnbc lovers keep it up for the republicans because whether its palin or any other repuiblican he will lose. Remember the battle ground states barry won in 2008 that he los last month which changes the districts in each state big time.Oh and the failed Omnibus,stimulis,unemployment will keep getting higher and our economy will keep getting worse. You keep bashing palin you just dont know politics then. Did I mention that idiot Biden,lol



A typical "diddo head" response. People here are actually smart enough to make their own decisions, not simply repeat what others are telling them to say. There are even the most stalwart of conservatives here and they're smart enough to realise that what they see is corrupt.

Now, please elaborate on this information that you and only you seem privy enough to have.


----------



## DEATH MATCH (Nov 29, 2010)

LAM said:


> DEATH MATCH said:
> 
> 
> > you know nothing about the topic at hand, you simply recite the rhetoric from the right that you have heard on TV, this is so painfully obvious. Anyone that mentions Reagan being fiscally conservative doesn't know JACK.
> ...


----------



## Nightowl (Nov 29, 2010)




----------



## KelJu (Nov 29, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> LAM said:
> 
> 
> > This is where again your libarlism gets in the way with the truth. See all you liberals cant justify why Barry spent more money then all the presidents combines but you spew spew stuff about  of what I heard,hey butt hugger ive explained enough but lets hear why you think its ok that the rich support the poor or the rich who is the small business person are the ones that create jobs or why barry wants to raise taxes. You really need to accept that your barry lost big time and he was nothing but a community organizer and had no experience and now it has showed big time. In a few weeks your barry will give into the bush tax cuts and will expand them another few years and you leftest liberals will go crazy.Cmon lets hear why the gov should support this country why the rich should be penalized by barry. You liberals just dont get it that SMALL BUSINESS create jobs and when you tax small business's you hurt the economy and no ne gets hired and people get laid off and unemployment rises. You liberals have no answers.But again and I know it just huuuuurts you liberals that the country turned red big time and that the House will be republicans for the next 15-20yrs easy and in 2 years the republicans will finaly take the senate you do know this. So go back to micheal moores and the obermanns msnbc and keep saying to your self the country is on track. 2 years of failure but you liberals think he's doing a great job.


----------



## IronAddict (Nov 29, 2010)

DEATH MATCH;2111947 
 
 
 
This is where again your libarlism gets in the way with the truth. See all you liberals cant justify why Barry spent more money then all the presidents combines but you spew spew stuff about  of what I heard said:
			
		

> I'll double that up,


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 29, 2010)

So, let's sum up both sides' argument:

1)Here is what i believe, here is an independent source of information with knowledge on the topic that is fairly reliable, and the data from the past century pretty much supports it

2)Well, I believe the opposite, I don't have any credible source of information to base this on, and in the event of a cataclysmic event that no person could ever conceivably predict, your data may possibly be off.

What a hard argument to choose a side on, I'm going to be up all night pondering this one.


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## LAM (Nov 29, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> LAM said:
> 
> 
> > This is where again your libarlism gets in the way with the truth. See all you liberals cant justify why Barry spent more money then all the presidents combines but you spew spew stuff about  of what I heard,hey butt hugger ive explained enough but lets hear why you think its ok that the rich support the poor or the rich who is the small business person are the ones that create jobs or why barry wants to raise taxes. You really need to accept that your barry lost big time and he was nothing but a community organizer and had no experience and now it has showed big time. In a few weeks your barry will give into the bush tax cuts and will expand them another few years and you leftest liberals will go crazy.Cmon lets hear why the gov should support this country why the rich should be penalized by barry. You liberals just dont get it that SMALL BUSINESS create jobs and when you tax small business's you hurt the economy and no ne gets hired and people get laid off and unemployment rises. You liberals have no answers.But again and I know it just huuuuurts you liberals that the country turned red big time and that the House will be republicans for the next 15-20yrs easy and in 2 years the republicans will finaly take the senate you do know this. So go back to micheal moores and the obermanns msnbc and keep saying to your self the country is on track. 2 years of failure but you liberals think he's doing a great job.
> ...


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## DEATH MATCH (Dec 1, 2010)

Its always a liberal to some how make reagan look bad when he turned the economy around and created jobs. But lets make a point that Barry isnt making any jobs or getting unemployment down or lowering the capital gains tax .And again no one can touch or came even close on why this barry has sucked so bad and failed. Just all riff raff but no solid facts from any liberal on his 2 years.


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## LAM (Dec 1, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> Its always a liberal to some how make reagan look bad when he turned the economy around and created jobs. But lets make a point that Barry isnt making any jobs or getting unemployment down or lowering the capital gains tax .And again no one can touch or came even close on why this barry has sucked so bad and failed. Just all riff raff but no solid facts from any liberal on his 2 years.



you sir are an idiot and no absolutely nothing about the topic..how old were you when Reagan was president?


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## soxmuscle (Dec 1, 2010)

Palin = dumb cunt


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## DEATH MATCH (Dec 4, 2010)

LAM said:


> you sir are an idiot and no absolutely nothing about the topic..how old were you when Reagan was president?


 

You and not one other liberal can justify in 2 years that this idiot barry has created  trillion dollars in debt in such a short time . and ive repeatidly said he created more debt then every president together but you and others want to avoid that and every other question. But your lame ass post is how old was I when reagan was president is that the best you have. Cmon liberal tell us in 2 years why nothing has happen on barrys watch and that a historic day happen when the house went to the republicans and more seats to the senate  . The people of this country voted them in becase they knew how bad this idiot is doing over 70% of the people. Its sad that a person like yourself cant come up with a clear answer to such a easy question. And soon the senate will vote down this tax cuts and it will make Barry look like a idiot once again. Oh didnt you noticed that the unemployment rate is at 9.8 for Nov and it went up again.


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## Big Smoothy (Dec 4, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> Palin = dumb cunt



Sums it up perfectly.

What pretty pathetic IMO, is that she gets all of this _media_ attention.

She doesn't have ideas, is not a thinker, not just poorly read, but *not* read at all.

The fact the US media and many that like her and loathe her are discussing her (oops, is that me too?) shows what a lack of potential leadership there is in our nation right now (or perhaps, it's always been that way).

All this exposure may lead to _over-exposure_ and a Palin Fatigue.


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## LAM (Dec 4, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> You and not one other liberal can justify in 2 years that this idiot barry has created  trillion dollars in debt in such a short time . and ive repeatidly said he created more debt then every president together but you and others want to avoid that and every other question. But your lame ass post is how old was I when reagan was president is that the best you have. Cmon liberal tell us in 2 years why nothing has happen on barrys watch and that a historic day happen when the house went to the republicans and more seats to the senate  . The people of this country voted them in becase they knew how bad this idiot is doing over 70% of the people. Its sad that a person like yourself cant come up with a clear answer to such a easy question. And soon the senate will vote down this tax cuts and it will make Barry look like a idiot once again. Oh didnt you noticed that the unemployment rate is at 9.8 for Nov and it went up again.



what did he spend the money on?  post a link to the report or data.  there is always a money trail when it comes to large monetary transactions.  if you are insistent that ALL this debit is due directly to the policies of Obama and his administration then post a link to the report or STFU.


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## DEATH MATCH (Dec 9, 2010)

If you done know what he spent trillions on then in all honesty your more stupid then I thought.A complete idiot would know what he spent trillions on that didnt work but thats were your Liberalism comes into affect. And isnt so funny now that his own party hates him and think he's a pussy and wont fight for them. 10 times on the campaign trail he kept saying "I'M GOING TO ROLL BACK THE BUSH TAX CUTS" and he promised his bull shit change and nothing has changed and he has lied and things got worse. Barry the community organizer is just that a community organizer and doesnt have a clue how to be a presidetn and it has shown for 2 years. But isnt it grand to see his own party consider to block these tax cuts and make him look even more stupid


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## LAM (Dec 9, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> If you done know what he spent trillions on then in all honesty your more stupid then I thought.A complete idiot would know what he spent trillions on that didnt work but thats were your Liberalism comes into affect. And isnt so funny now that his own party hates him and think he's a pussy and wont fight for them. 10 times on the campaign trail he kept saying "I'M GOING TO ROLL BACK THE BUSH TAX CUTS" and he promised his bull shit change and nothing has changed and he has lied and things got worse. Barry the community organizer is just that a community organizer and doesnt have a clue how to be a presidetn and it has shown for 2 years. But isnt it grand to see his own party consider to block these tax cuts and make him look even more stupid



as expected no data to back up your talking points only opinion and the standard rhetoric from the right...


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 9, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> If you done know what he spent trillions on then in all honesty your more stupid then I thought.A complete idiot would know what he spent trillions on that didnt work but thats were your Liberalism comes into affect. And isnt so funny now that his own party hates him and think he's a pussy and wont fight for them. 10 times on the campaign trail he kept saying "I'M GOING TO ROLL BACK THE BUSH TAX CUTS" and he promised his bull shit change and nothing has changed and he has lied and things got worse. Barry the community organizer is just that a community organizer and doesnt have a clue how to be a presidetn and it has shown for 2 years. But isnt it grand to see his own party consider to block these tax cuts and make him look even more stupid



I can assure that around 90% of the debt we are currently carrying is from Bush, if you don't believe that open a book or newspaper, or google it, the info can be found in about 3 seconds.  I'm not saying Obama will not increase it, but 90% of the $13+ trillion we are carrying are from policies enacted before Obama got in to office.  Obama's deficit will start to be seen within the next couple of years.  not saying that 2 wrongs make a right, but if you are going to shout out talking points, do everyone a favor and stop lying, or speaking of it without at least looking at the data yourself.  I know it's much easier to let Fox News form your opinion for you, but give it a try.


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## min0 lee (Dec 9, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> LAM said:
> 
> 
> > This is where again your libarlism gets in the way with the truth. See all you liberals c butt hugger ive explained enough but lets hear why you think its ok that the rich support the poor or the rich who is the small business person are the ones that create jobs or why barry wants to raise taxes. You really need to accept that your barry lost big time and he was nothing but a community organizer and had no experience and now it has showed big time. o go back to micheal moores and the obermanns msnbc and keep saying to your self the country is on track. 2 years of failure but you liberals think he's doing a great job.
> ...


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## DEATH MATCH (Dec 10, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> I can assure that around 90% of the debt we are currently carrying is from Bush, if you don't believe that open a book or newspaper, or google it, the info can be found in about 3 seconds. I'm not saying Obama will not increase it, but 90% of the $13+ trillion we are carrying are from policies enacted before Obama got in to office. Obama's deficit will start to be seen within the next couple of years. not saying that 2 wrongs make a right, but if you are going to shout out talking points, do everyone a favor and stop lying, or speaking of it without at least looking at the data yourself. I know it's much easier to let Fox News form your opinion for you, but give it a try.


 

 See this is the problem with liberals and if your one then you have the sickness also. Bush is no longer in the white house he's gone and what ever he did is done and now we are on Barry and his 2 years now. And in his 2 years he has created more debt then bush and all the president put together starting from george washington. Why do liberals incist that bush is still around and its his fault or you have to bring in his stuff. Its done and over with. Barry has now made this mess the worse mess now in years he created not bush.And agin the way you sound makes me think you are a liberal by you assuming I watch fox. I take in all data from every where. I'm not lying and thats typical liberalism right there saying i'm lying or bringing up bush or still blaming bush. You gonna blame nancy pelosi and the democrats fro trying to stop this new bill and blame it on bush. Because barry is losing his base and fast and he's to fault. Like I posted ,I'm gonna roll back the bush tax cuts,Howmany times did he say that on the campaign trail and now flip flop and has his base is wanting his head. Thats all you liberals do is blame others because you cant deal with the truth.


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 10, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> See this is the problem with liberals and if your one then you have the sickness also. Bush is no longer in the white house he's gone and what ever he did is done and now we are on Barry and his 2 years now. And in his 2 years he has created more debt then bush and all the president put together starting from george washington. Why do liberals incist that bush is still around and its his fault or you have to bring in his stuff. Its done and over with. Barry has now made this mess the worse mess now in years he created not bush.And agin the way you sound makes me think you are a liberal by you assuming I watch fox. I take in all data from every where. I'm not lying and thats typical liberalism right there saying i'm lying or bringing up bush or still blaming bush. You gonna blame nancy pelosi and the democrats fro trying to stop this new bill and blame it on bush. Because barry is losing his base and fast and he's to fault. Like I posted ,I'm gonna roll back the bush tax cuts,Howmany times did he say that on the campaign trail and now flip flop and has his base is wanting his head. Thats all you liberals do is blame others because you cant deal with the truth.



Listen, numbnuts, I'm not saying Obama is doing a good job, I am saying pretty much everything you are saying is false.  I'm not saying blame Bush either, but the fact remains, 90% of our deficit is from him.  No matter who came in, no matter what they did, no matter what laws they signed in, whether they are liberal or conservative, the deficit we are running is directly from his policies.  I'm not saying it is not going up, but this deficit everyone is talking about has little to do with Obama.  What he did is not done, Iraq, Afghanistan, Medicare D, all of those things are what is currently running up our deficit.  Just read through all of that slowly, liberal or conservative doesn't matter.  If that still confuses you, go to Dick's and buy a hockey helmet to protect that head of yours, we can't afford to lose that precious brain cell you're running on.


By the way, I would give Obama a D- on the job he's done, but that doesn't make you any less ignorant.


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## bio-chem (Dec 10, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> By the way, I would give Obama a D- on the job he's done, but that doesn't make you any less ignorant.


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## Big Smoothy (Dec 10, 2010)

> First off you Palin haters dont really have a clue on who she is and what she as done and what she truly stands for



Where did you get this information.

I loathe her - and I know exactly what she stands for.

I've been following politics for 25 years, including the last 2 years - erm....that's when Palin came to exist, politically.


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## DEATH MATCH (Dec 11, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Listen, numbnuts, I'm not saying Obama is doing a good job, I am saying pretty much everything you are saying is false. I'm not saying blame Bush either, but the fact remains, 90% of our deficit is from him. No matter who came in, no matter what they did, no matter what laws they signed in, whether they are liberal or conservative, the deficit we are running is directly from his policies. I'm not saying it is not going up, but this deficit everyone is talking about has little to do with Obama. What he did is not done, Iraq, Afghanistan, Medicare D, all of those things are what is currently running up our deficit. Just read through all of that slowly, liberal or conservative doesn't matter. If that still confuses you, go to Dick's and buy a hockey helmet to protect that head of yours, we can't afford to lose that precious brain cell you're running on.
> 
> 
> By the way, I would give Obama a D- on the job he's done, but that doesn't make you any less ignorant.


 


Where do you get your political brain power numbnutz do  I have to spell it out for you. What dont you get. He has created over trillions of dollars with pelosi in debt but you say its not this idiot Obama. He has quadrupled the debt in less then 2 years QUADRUPLED,His stimulis,Omnibus didnt work that created trilions of dollars of debt but you say its not him,also his shit storm of the health care will blow the debt up even more. Get a grip dude you are wrong and you need to educate your self a little more in politics if you think he hasnt created more debt then bush,better yet then all the presidents in history put together. You have to live in a make believe fantasy world if you cant see how bad he has done in less then 2 years. He cant get anything done,he has to bring in clinton which he wont help get anything done.But you keep imagining in your make believe world its not him creating this mess. Good job. Mr change did change our country for the worse.


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## min0 lee (Dec 11, 2010)

Derp.


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## lnvanry (Dec 11, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Listen, numbnuts, I'm not saying Obama is doing a good job, I am saying pretty much everything you are saying is false.  I'm not saying blame Bush either, but the fact remains, 90% of our deficit is from him.  No matter who came in, no matter what they did, no matter what laws they signed in, whether they are liberal or conservative, the deficit we are running is directly from his policies.  I'm not saying it is not going up, but this deficit everyone is *talking about has little to do with Obama*.  What he did is not done, Iraq, Afghanistan, Medicare D, all of those things are what is currently running up our deficit.  Just read through all of that slowly, liberal or conservative doesn't matter.  If that still confuses you, go to Dick's and buy a hockey helmet to protect that head of yours, we can't afford to lose that precious brain cell you're running on.
> 
> 
> By the way, I would give Obama a D- on the job he's done, but that doesn't make you any less ignorant.



Of course it does...

In fact, the federal debt AND budget deficit has never been higher (gross terms and % wise) than under Obama's admin. I'm not saying he's the sole reason, as they (meaning all presidents in the modern era except Clinton) are the reason...but to say Obama has little to do with it is factually incorrect.  Not only is there a clear correlation, but this causality as well.

TARP (the public release version and secret TARP), the wars in Iraq and Afghan have continued for 2yrs since he came into office, health care reform (which has verifiably cost more up front with the expectation/hope it save in the future)...

90% of deficit is not from Bush...he may own a good sized chunk (more like 50%) but not 90%


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## lnvanry (Dec 11, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> Derp.




THey took our jobs!






YouTube - they took our jobs WWE" title="Click to view this video on YouTube" target="_blank">YouTube Video





YouTube - they took our jobs WWE">YouTube - they took our jobs WWE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="385">


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## lnvanry (Dec 11, 2010)

lnvanry said:


> THey took our jobs!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




YouTube - they took our jobs WWE


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## LAM (Dec 11, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> Where do you get your political brain power numbnutz do  I have to spell it out for you. What dont you get. He has created over trillions of dollars with pelosi in debt but you say its not this idiot Obama. He has quadrupled the debt in less then 2 years QUADRUPLED,His stimulis,Omnibus didnt work that created trilions of dollars of debt but you say its not him,also his shit storm of the health care will blow the debt up even more. Get a grip dude you are wrong and you need to educate your self a little more in politics if you think he hasnt created more debt then bush,better yet then all the presidents in history put together. You have to live in a make believe fantasy world if you cant see how bad he has done in less then 2 years. He cant get anything done,he has to bring in clinton which he wont help get anything done.But you keep imagining in your make believe world its not him creating this mess. Good job. Mr change did change our country for the worse.



once again you can't find not a shred of data on the whole Internets to support your opinion, it would truly suck to have your brain...

I'll even help you here is a link to the Library of Congress please post the pieces of legislation passed under Obama that have added to the budget deficit.

THOMAS (Library of Congress)


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## min0 lee (Dec 11, 2010)

He's a meme.


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## DEATH MATCH (Dec 12, 2010)

LAM said:


> once again you can't find not a shred of data on the whole Internets to support your opinion, it would truly suck to have your brain...
> 
> I'll even help you here is a link to the Library of Congress please post the pieces of legislation passed under Obama that have added to the budget deficit.
> 
> ...


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## LAM (Dec 12, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> LAM said:
> 
> 
> > once again you can't find not a shred of data on the whole Internets to support your opinion, it would truly suck to have your brain...
> ...


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## DEATH MATCH (Dec 12, 2010)

Cmon you weak minded liberal barry ass kisser to us all how much the stimulis cost and why it didnt work,cmon tell us why the omnibust didnt work and how much that raised the debt. Cmon liberal lets hear your facts that pelosi under her 5 trillion dollars went to the debt.Why is unemployment still raising with all barry did in 2 years why is there no jobs in 2 years under barry. The weakness of barry bringing in clinton the leaving yeah thats preety fukn funny that a president wont even sick around because he has to get a past president to try and get his base back since he's a wimp and wont stick up for his own party. Your weak pathetic and rest assure in 2 years I cant wait to see how he is going to want to raise taxes again in 2 years when he's trying to get his job back. Didnt think of that liberal did ya. Bring it liberal


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## DEATH MATCH (Dec 13, 2010)

LAM said:


> once again you can't find not a shred of data on the whole Internets to support your opinion, it would truly suck to have your brain...
> 
> I'll even help you here is a link to the Library of Congress please post the pieces of legislation passed under Obama that have added to the budget deficit.
> 
> ...


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## DEATH MATCH (Dec 13, 2010)

The Obama Budget: Spending, Taxes, and Doubling the National Debt | The Heritage Foundation

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/10/national-debt-obama.html


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 13, 2010)

lnvanry said:


> Of course it does...
> 
> In fact, the federal debt AND budget deficit has never been higher (gross terms and % wise) than under Obama's admin. I'm not saying he's the sole reason, as they (meaning all presidents in the modern era except Clinton) are the reason...but to say Obama has little to do with it is factually incorrect.  Not only is there a clear correlation, but this causality as well.
> 
> ...



I would prefer to be out of the wars, but what option does he have?  What are those troops going to do if we just hang it up and leave both of those places now?  Where are they going to work/what are they going to do?  TARP should end up costing us about $25 billion in the end.  I don't think spending would have been any different under McCain or any other president.  Look who started the bailouts.  A true free market guy like Henry Paulson had to essentially say the free market doesn't work by asking for $700 billion dollars to plug in to that free market or the economy would collapse.  They need to spend money on this shit or our economy will fail.  Personally, I think it's going to fail much harder than it has anyway, but we will see.


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## lnvanry (Dec 13, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> I would prefer to be out of the wars, but what option does he have?  What are those troops going to do if we just hang it up and leave both of those places now?  Where are they going to work/what are they going to do?  TARP *should end up* costing us about $25 billion in the end.  I don't think spending would have been any different under McCain or any other president.  Look who started the bailouts.  A true free market guy like Henry Paulson had to essentially say the free market doesn't work by asking for $700 billion dollars to plug in to that free market or the economy would collapse.  They need to spend money on this shit or our economy will fail.  Personally, I think it's going to fail much harder than it has anyway, but we will see.



We'll see about that...


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## LAM (Dec 13, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> The Obama Budget: Spending, Taxes, and Doubling the National Debt | The Heritage Foundation
> 
> Obama spending stimulates the national debt by $3,039,000,000,000 | Top of the Ticket | Los Angeles Times



that's all the data you can find?  some info from a conservatively biased organization like Heritage.

Below are all of the pieces of legislation passed under the Obama administration from the Library of Congress.  Any piece of legislation that adds to the budget deficit has an associated report by the CBO.  Good luck finding data to support your argument.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/L?d111:./list/bd/d111pl.lst:1[1-32]%28Public_Laws%29|TOM:/bss/d111query.html|


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## GearsMcGilf (Dec 13, 2010)

How about Obama's 2010 budget?  Oh, and cash for clunkers was one helluva stimulus program.  We have so much to show for it.  At least it took a lot of Obama stickers it got off the road.  Anyone with have a brain would not dare suggest that a $3.8trill with 40% borrowed from foreign govts does not effect the deficit.  If the cash is not there to cover it, then it is part of the debt and deficit.  But, being the Obamabot you are, you'll just go right on quoting the CBO and believing that Obama is a fiscally responsible pres.  Of course, Bush did it also, so I suppose we can't criticize.

Econ 101:  When the govt spends $ it doesn't have, it is defined as deficit spending.  When the govt begins to spend even more $ that it doesn't have, that would be an increase in deficit spending.  This LAM cat must spend an awful lot of time in the spinning class when he goes to the gym.


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## LAM (Dec 13, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> How about Obama's 2010 budget?  Oh, and cash for clunkers was one helluva stimulus program.  We have so much to show for it.  At least it took a lot of Obama stickers it got off the road.  Anyone with have a brain would not dare suggest that a $3.8trill with 40% borrowed from foreign govts does not effect the deficit.  If the cash is not there to cover it, then it is part of the debt and deficit.  But, being the Obamabot you are, you'll just go right on quoting the CBO and believing that Obama is a fiscally responsible pres.  Of course, Bush did it also, so I suppose we can't criticize.
> 
> Econ 101:  When the govt spends $ it doesn't have, it is defined as deficit spending.  When the govt begins to spend even more $ that it doesn't have, that would be an increase in deficit spending.  This LAM cat must spend an awful lot of time in the spinning class when he goes to the gym.



not in one single post have a praised an economic policy of Obama or the Democrats.  your own political bias blinds you from this


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## DEATH MATCH (Dec 13, 2010)

LAM said:


> that's all the data you can find? some info from a conservatively biased organization like Heritage.
> 
> Below are all of the pieces of legislation passed under the Obama administration from the Library of Congress. Any piece of legislation that adds to the budget deficit has an associated report by the CBO. Good luck finding data to support your argument.
> 
> http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/L?d111:./list/bd/d111pl.lst:1[1-32]%28Public_Laws%29|TOM:/bss/d111query.html|


 

your a complete Idiot who doesnt know shit about politics.And lets not forget how many democrats now are jumping ship because of your hero.The people now favor bush over barry.Your a idiot


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## min0 lee (Dec 13, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> your a complete Idiot who doesnt know shit about politics.And lets not forget how many democrats now are jumping ship because of your hero.The people now favor bush over barry.Your a idiot



Now that's taking it too far. To me the are both the same.


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## LAM (Dec 13, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> your a complete Idiot who doesnt know shit about politics.And lets not forget how many democrats now are jumping ship because of your hero.The people now favor bush over barry.Your a idiot



come back when you graduate middle school and we can actually have an adult argument.


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## Arnold (Dec 13, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> your a complete Idiot who doesnt know shit about politics. Your a idiot



you obviously have not been around here very long to post something so stupid, LAM is far from being an idiot, but you sure seem to be.


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## DEATH MATCH (Dec 14, 2010)

I dont have to be some where long to know when a liberal is a complete waste of time  has no clue about politics and doesnt weant to admit his boy barry has created more debt then bush and every other president but the waste case lam wants to keep thinking his boy barry has done nothing wrong. And everyone including barrys democrats has admitted he created this mess and thats why he got beat last month badly. So yes that puts him in that moron catagory about politics and should remove his head from barrys ass because its clouded his brain. every normal minded person knows this barry has created more debt in 2 years then bush did in his entire 8 years as president but yet he wants to say no wheres the proof . Yeah right i stand correct


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## LAM (Dec 14, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Obama may be better educated than Palin, but like most academics, he offers no solutions for real world problems.



pretty much like every single solution the GOP has, not a single solution to our real world problems here in the US.  cutting funding to various social programs isn't going to make the underlying problems with our society in the US go away, healthcare reform no need to tackle that problem with 50% of the personal bankruptcies in the US in 2009 caused by medical bills, school nutrition - best to wait until 50% of the children in the US are severely overweight or obese, unemployment benefits - don't even want to go there, and tax cuts for the rich which have no return on investment as was proven with 8 years of those cuts creating no jobs or R&D.  murphy's law states that when things are left to themselves problem go from bad to worst.

what exactly are the good ideas coming from the far right?  John Boehnner starts off as speaker by causing more debit by demanding tax cuts for the rich.  and how exactly does DADT effect the deficit?  EVERYONE want's it gone except the GOP.  

what would the US do w/o the GOP impeding progress in just about every direction?


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## bio-chem (Dec 14, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> Now that's taking it too far. To me the are both the same.



you may be right in more ways than one Mino. 
Why George W. Bush must be smiling - CNN.com

I know I promised to stay away from this thread, but I thought the link was interesting, and could add to the discussion. I will not enter the debate and so I feel justified.

DEATH MATCH. you are a terrible debater. I loathe Obama and LAM and consider myself conservative leaning, but honestly every time you post i wish you would just hide under a rock. LAM is kicking your ass all over this thread and somehow you keep posting. it's like you really are in middle school. you make the rest of the conservative leaning folks cringe because we know we get associated with people like you.


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## bio-chem (Dec 14, 2010)

ok. I need to back track a bit. I neither loathe lam nor obama. I however dislike their positions on many political matters.

thanks Mino.


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## DEATH MATCH (Dec 15, 2010)

Theres no debating any liberal minded goof ball who thinks like this Lam that this idiot didnt create more debt and screw up our economy in 2 years is wacked. Truly if you think this goof ball Lam is somehow trying to make waves by his statements that his king barry is doing well is just plain wrong and ofcourse you would say something like that you and him are most likely friends here since you both have been here a long time and I just stepped in. You say you are a conservative leaning no friggin way. Because if you were a concervative leaning you would know that this idiot barry has created this mess in 2 years and created more debt then any president in history if you cant fathom that then lean the other way because this is a 100 facts that I have posted 110% facts. You people must not ever been talked down to in anything if my words bother you in this poltical forum. This goof ball Lam just to say what are the good ideas coming out of the right makes him the biggest leftest liberal on this board and ignorant because he's blind.Any dummy knows that the small businesses our the way for creating jobs and by cutting taxes and by cutting gov spending and cutting ear marks and not to keep funding federal jobs or unemployment. You people keep it coming because I know deep down i'm right and 70% of america know i'm right. And only 20% of americans are liberals .And this dummy barry apprval rating is lowering and lowering and right now is at a all time low. But you must be lind also and think differnt.You biochem dont know what it is to be a real true republican concervative. I am the way of the true republican and will make you and any other liberal look like a idot with your bull shit liberal talk and how this idiot barryu is your savior. He jhas done nothing,just today another judge shot down his health care saying its unconstitutional and it will be repealed and tossed out. He failed at g2o summit he failed in korea he couldnt get the olympics here he cant get shit done but you and Lam keep his poster on your weall and praise him. Oh did I say his party cant stand him now. He's he fastes president in hsitory to have a huge favorable rating to lose it to the lowest in history that quick,worse then jimy carter.You waek pathetic liberals really need to get a clue on reality.


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 15, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> Theres no debating any liberal minded goof ball who thinks like this Lam that this idiot didnt create more debt and screw up our economy in 2 years is wacked. Truly if you think this goof ball Lam is somehow trying to make waves by his statements that his king barry is doing well is just plain wrong and ofcourse you would say something like that you and him are most likely friends here since you both have been here a long time and I just stepped in. You say you are a conservative leaning no friggin way. Because if you were a concervative leaning you would know that this idiot barry has created this mess in 2 years and created more debt then any president in history if you cant fathom that then lean the other way because this is a 100 facts that I have posted 110% facts. You people must not ever been talked down to in anything if my words bother you in this poltical forum. This goof ball Lam just to say what are the good ideas coming out of the right makes him the biggest leftest liberal on this board and ignorant because he's blind.Any dummy knows that the small businesses our the way for creating jobs and by cutting taxes and by cutting gov spending and cutting ear marks and not to keep funding federal jobs or unemployment. You people keep it coming because I know deep down i'm right and 70% of america know i'm right. And only 20% of americans are liberals .And this dummy barry apprval rating is lowering and lowering and right now is at a all time low. But you must be lind also and think differnt.You biochem dont know what it is to be a real true republican concervative. I am the way of the true republican and will make you and any other liberal look like a idot with your bull shit liberal talk and how this idiot barryu is your savior. He jhas done nothing,just today another judge shot down his health care saying its unconstitutional and it will be repealed and tossed out. He failed at g2o summit he failed in korea he couldnt get the olympics here he cant get shit done but you and Lam keep his poster on your weall and praise him. Oh did I say his party cant stand him now. He's he fastes president in hsitory to have a huge favorable rating to lose it to the lowest in history that quick,worse then jimy carter.You waek pathetic liberals really need to get a clue on reality.



You're wrong and I have proof, you are an idiot and idiots are typically wrong.  That is all.


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## LAM (Dec 15, 2010)

DEATH MATCH said:


> Theres no debating any liberal minded goof ball who thinks like this Lam that this idiot didnt create more debt and screw up our economy in 2 years is wacked. Truly if you think this goof ball Lam is somehow trying to make waves by his statements that his king barry is doing well is just plain wrong and ofcourse you would say something like that you and him are most likely friends here since you both have been here a long time and I just stepped in. You say you are a conservative leaning no friggin way. Because if you were a concervative leaning you would know that this idiot barry has created this mess in 2 years and created more debt then any president in history if you cant fathom that then lean the other way because this is a 100 facts that I have posted 110% facts. You people must not ever been talked down to in anything if my words bother you in this poltical forum. This goof ball Lam just to say what are the good ideas coming out of the right makes him the biggest leftest liberal on this board and ignorant because he's blind.Any dummy knows that the small businesses our the way for creating jobs and by cutting taxes and by cutting gov spending and cutting ear marks and not to keep funding federal jobs or unemployment. You people keep it coming because I know deep down i'm right and 70% of america know i'm right. And only 20% of americans are liberals .And this dummy barry apprval rating is lowering and lowering and right now is at a all time low. But you must be lind also and think differnt.You biochem dont know what it is to be a real true republican concervative. I am the way of the true republican and will make you and any other liberal look like a idot with your bull shit liberal talk and how this idiot barryu is your savior. He jhas done nothing,just today another judge shot down his health care saying its unconstitutional and it will be repealed and tossed out. He failed at g2o summit he failed in korea he couldnt get the olympics here he cant get shit done but you and Lam keep his poster on your weall and praise him. Oh did I say his party cant stand him now. He's he fastes president in hsitory to have a huge favorable rating to lose it to the lowest in history that quick,worse then jimy carter.You waek pathetic liberals really need to get a clue on reality.



this is why late term abortions should be legalized...


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## bio-chem (Dec 15, 2010)

LAM said:


> this is why late term abortions should be legalized...



damn..........just, damn........


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## DEATH MATCH (Dec 15, 2010)

Just as I figured niether one could respond with a political answer and lam just gets more stupid with every post


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## min0 lee (Dec 15, 2010)

More stupider? If he ever does I blame you! You diseased fool!


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