# Ketosis a No~Go



## DaMayor (Feb 14, 2008)

I posted something about this a long time ago I believe, but since I cannot find it I'll ask the question again.

I've been on a carb-cycling diet recently. Now, while I avoid sounding too Atkins-esque, I do ocassionally use keto-strips just to see whether or not I am in Ketosis. First week on the diet, ketosis achieved after 48 hours. Weeks two and three, ketosis after 72 hours. This week, after four full days....nothing.
I remember DP and W8lifter (no longer with us here) once mentioned that the consumption of too much protein could inhibit ketosis. Maybe this is the problem. Other than this, does anyone have any idea as to why this seemingly inevitable physiologic state would not occur?


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## Nigeepoo (Feb 14, 2008)

Protein intake in excess of requirements is converted into glucose (~50%) and the nitrogen bit is converted into urea and excreted in urine. Too much glucose = no ketosis.


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## DaMayor (Feb 14, 2008)

I never knew that...hmm, that would explain it.  Therefore, I suppose I should increase my "healthy" fat intake and decrease the proteins a bit.

*Popping a few fish oil tabs and chasing with an olive/flax oil cocktail*


Delicious!


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## tucker01 (Feb 14, 2008)

Why do you feel you need to achieve ketosis?


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## DaMayor (Feb 14, 2008)

I don't really. It is really a psychological thing, not really of any importance.
As long as I'm losing inches/fat I'm not concerned too much. It just seemed odd that I went almost _immediately_ into Ketosis during the first few days and have now seemingly droppped right out after taking in so few carbs over the past month.

I'm just trying to evaluate/tweak my diet/status and the results I get by using different approaches. For instance, in the past I would go No Carb for weeks at a time, and would of course hit a plateau. Now, after doing my first re-feed, my weight loss doubled. (as compared to the previous week).

Middle aged oddities? Or am I actually doing something that works for my system?


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## DaMayor (Feb 14, 2008)

Alright, back to a question regarding your response, Nige.

If excess protein is converted into glucose, therfore halting ketosis, would this be an entirely bad thing for the low carb dieter? Would the glucose created act as "spill over" (I guess this is the correct use of the phrase) thereby causing weight gain? Or would it allow the dieter to continue losing fat at a slower pace?


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## tucker01 (Feb 14, 2008)

Glucose is just the energy source.

It will come down to cals in vs cals out.

If you are eating a shit load of protein and fat, and exceed your BMR then sure you can gain weight.


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## danzik17 (Feb 14, 2008)

Quick Question - Carb Cycling obviously works since I'm doing it with great results, was just curious about the mechanics behind it.  Is it that since you eat so much on high carb days that your metabolism is revved up and on subsequent no carb days you burn fat like crazy?

That and does the order of days matter at all?  My schedule is pretty good at is it and I can deal with it, but switching a couple of the no carb/low carb days around to fit my class schedule would make things a hell of a lot more convenient.


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## DaMayor (Feb 14, 2008)

Okay, so I left that part out. Yes, as Dr. Pain, et al, said in the past (and I believe Rob as well) in order to "lose weight" there must be a caloric deficit.

So if the person is consuming, say 10 kcals per pound of body weight (if this is their required number for losing) yet ingesting too much protein, the glucose created will simply be burned off rather than stored as fat.?.

So, if this is the case, the low carb approach+proper cals+excess protein=spinning wheels?

Am I making sense here?


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## tucker01 (Feb 14, 2008)

The low carb approach to dieting I think is a personal thing, based on bodytype and personal experience.

Some people do better with weight loss on the low carb route,  While some can follow a 40/40/20.

Really how you slice it is up to you.


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## DaMayor (Feb 14, 2008)

danzik17 said:


> Quick Question - Carb Cycling obviously works since I'm doing it with great results, was just curious about the mechanics behind it.  Is it that since you eat so much on high carb days that your metabolism is revved up and on subsequent no carb days you burn fat like crazy?
> 
> That and does the order of days matter at all?  My schedule is pretty good at is it and I can deal with it, but switching a couple of the no carb/low carb days around to fit my class schedule would make things a hell of a lot more convenient.




I think I can take a stab at this one.

First, read Jodi's sticky on *re-feeds*. The purpose of a re-feed/carb-up is to restore glycogen stores and reduce leptin levels. Leptin being the "starvation hormone"....I personally have an abundant supply on demand.

Correct me guys if I am misleading...


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## DaMayor (Feb 14, 2008)

IainDaniel said:


> Really how you slice it is up to you.




That's what I/m doing right now.....slicing away. I'm just looking for the right ratios, routines, and tweaks that will be specific to my needs as opposed to my very general "low carb aughtta work" approach. There is much more to this than Atkins, that;s for sure.


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## danzik17 (Feb 14, 2008)

DaMayor said:


> I think I can take a stab at this one.
> 
> First, read Jodi's sticky on *re-feeds*. The purpose of a re-feed/carb-up is to restore glycogen stores and reduce leptin levels. Leptin being the "starvation hormone"....I personally have an abundant supply on demand.
> 
> Correct me guys if I am misleading...



Yea I know about that - should have mentioned it 

What I'm trying to get at is this: is there a benefit to having a no carb day immediately following a high carb day or vice versa?  Do the positioning of the days not matter and the overall deficit matters more?  Am I an anal retentive jackass?


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## DaMayor (Feb 14, 2008)

I don't think I am qualified to answer that one.

Although I must say, opinion only here, that I have a hard time understanding why some people alternate low carb days and carb-ups so closely together. Seems like the effects would be limited...JMO.


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## danzik17 (Feb 14, 2008)

Well there's only 7 days in the week, and I do 2 high carb, 3 no carb, 2 low carb days.

It's not possible to not have them close, but it would be more convenient if I could switch a couple of days around if the positioning of the days don't matter.


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## Triple Threat (Feb 15, 2008)

danzik17 said:


> is there a benefit to having a no carb day immediately following a high carb day or vice versa?  Do the positioning of the days not matter and the overall deficit matters more?



Probably doesn't matter


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## BigDyl (Feb 15, 2008)

Why not try the metabolic/anabolic diet?

You hover just above ketosis.  You don't want to be in keto anyways as it is very catabolic.  By hovering above it, you avoid catabolism, and have the added benefit of being fat adapted.

Someone who is truly fat adapted has basically broken the krebs cycle so that there body prefers fat as an energy source to carbs/glycogen.  This means is muscle and protein sparring.  You do have one carb up day a weak where you can have supercompensation occur with your glycogen stores, that is, fill them past 100% capacity.


A fat adapted person also has the benefit of the body treating bodyfat as fuel and not storage.  So when you are in a caloric defecit, the majority of energy burned to compensate comes from bodyfat, not muscle, or glycogen.  The carb burners use a good amount of muscle and glycogen, and not as much bodyfat.


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