# Minimum protein intake to prevent catabolism



## jagbender (Mar 25, 2011)

would 1.2 g protein per KG LBM. along with Testosterone supplementation @ 130 mg a week prevent catabosim on a restricted calorie diet
assuming macros like this 

GramsCalories%-CalsCalories1,255
Fat34.8
312
25
%Saturated9.4
84
7
%Polyunsaturated1.5
13
1
%Monounsaturated4.7
42
3
%Carbohydrate104.5
411
33
%Dietary Fiber26.7
Protein133.5
526
42
%Alcohol0.0
0
0
%

these macros are putting me into ketosis 
current weight 112.7 KG / 248 pounds. 
assuming LBM @ 75.5 KG or 166 LB
height 5'9" 50 Y/O male


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Mar 25, 2011)

That's pretty low calories man. How long are you trying to run that diet?


----------



## jagbender (Mar 25, 2011)

just a couple of weeks  then back up to 1600-1800  I have a very low Maitnenace level.


----------



## thepunisher000 (Mar 25, 2011)

At your bodyweight, I'd get your protein game up to help prevent catabolism. That is a serious cut, what kind of training are you doing during this time period? Since you've decided to use testotsterone, I was curious why only 130mg a week?

I would keep the reps low and the weights heavy, but reduce the volume by about 2/3.


----------



## Built (Mar 26, 2011)

I'd drop the carbs down to 50g and use those calories for protein.


----------



## jagbender (Mar 28, 2011)

GramsCalories%-CalsCalories1,355
Fat42.3
380
28
%Saturated11.9
107
8
%Polyunsaturated1.5
13
1
%Monounsaturated3.2
28
2
%Carbohydrate88.5
347
25
%Dietary Fiber23.7
Protein160.5
634
47
%Alcohol0.0
0
0
%

How about these macros


----------



## jagbender (Mar 28, 2011)

Built said:


> I'd drop the carbs down to 50g and use those calories for protein.


I think 88 G of Carbs is as low as I can go and still stay on the "doc's" program. His shakes have 27 g each 2 a day. 54 g carbs and my shake has 10 g 

My appt is moved to Wednesday and I have dropped some weight and am showing large ketones even eating 100 + g of carbs. I am not telling Doc that "his plan" is putting me into ketosis cause I could eat more carbs per his plan but I choose to replace some of them with another of MY protein shakes. Although I eat tomotoes and Romain lettuce and steamed green beans even some strawberries. and still show moderate on a ketostik
I have been staying around 1300 cals a day and still dropping.


----------



## AaronPaul.RD (Mar 28, 2011)

Where are the rest of your fats coming from? The grams of sat, MUFAs and PUFAs don't add up.  I'm personally against ketogenic diets but if you are insistent upon it, the sources of fats are extremely important especially with that extremely high protein intake, and if you are on cycle (though 130mg is very, very low). With the low carbs, you are missing out on the phytochemicals and antioxidants those foods provide which help to combat the inflammatory state that high intakes of saturated fats, and omega-6 can induce.  Try to get your fats from healthy sources at the least (EVOO, avocado, fatty ocean fish, flax) to keep inflammation down.


----------



## AaronPaul.RD (Mar 28, 2011)

And no amount of protein will totally prevent catabolism without carbs.  Insulin is the most anabolic hormone in the body and only CHO's can manipulate its release.  Ketosis elevates cortisol which is the most catabolic hormone in the body.


----------



## danzik17 (Mar 28, 2011)

AaronPaul.RD said:


> And no amount of protein will totally prevent catabolism without carbs.  Insulin is the most anabolic hormone in the body and only CHO's can manipulate its release.  Ketosis elevates cortisol which is the most catabolic hormone in the body.



Yes, but for those of us that have issues with carb sensitivity, keto diets are a godsend.  That and name one other diet where you can eat 1000 calories a day and feel stuffed (referring specifically to a PSMF).

Besides, more important than carbs is maintaining weight on the bar during your lifts, even if that means less reps.  If done properly, the amount of LBM lost during a short term cut like the OP is doing should be minimal.


----------



## Built (Mar 28, 2011)

AaronPaul.RD said:


> Where are the rest of your fats coming from? The grams of sat, MUFAs and PUFAs don't add up.  I'm personally against ketogenic diets but if you are insistent upon it, the sources of fats are extremely important especially with that extremely high protein intake, and if you are on cycle (though 130mg is very, very low). With the low carbs, you are missing out on the phytochemicals and antioxidants those foods provide which help to combat the inflammatory state that high intakes of saturated fats, and omega-6 can induce.  Try to get your fats from healthy sources at the least (EVOO, avocado, fatty ocean fish, flax) to keep inflammation down.



Keto diets are antiinflammatory - you do know this, don't you? Insulin promotes inflammation. For those of us who are or who have been obese, if we are insulin resistant, we hypersecrete insulin in phase II. But you know this; I'm sure you do. 



AaronPaul.RD said:


> And no amount of protein will totally prevent catabolism without carbs.  Insulin is the most anabolic hormone in the body and only CHO's can manipulate its release.  Ketosis elevates cortisol which is the most catabolic hormone in the body.


Protein stimulates insulin. Some proteins stimulate insulin very strongly. Whey for instance. In this study, a "preload" of whey stimulated a stronger insulin response than a carbohydrate-containing meal, and controlled blood sugar at least as well as metformin in type II diabetics.  http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/32/9/1600.full.pdf




danzik17 said:


> Yes, but for those of us that have issues with carb sensitivity, keto diets are a godsend.  That and name one other diet where you can eat 1000 calories a day and feel stuffed (referring specifically to a PSMF).
> 
> Besides, more important than carbs is maintaining weight on the bar during your lifts, even if that means less reps.  If done properly, the amount of LBM lost during a short term cut like the OP is doing should be minimal.



I wonder why RDs continue to spout the outdated drivel they're taught - don't any of them read?


----------



## 5thgeartapped (Mar 28, 2011)

jagbender said:


> I think 88 G of Carbs is as low as I can go and still stay on the "doc's" program. His shakes have 27 g each 2 a day. 54 g carbs and my shake has 10 g
> 
> My appt is moved to Wednesday and I have dropped some weight and am showing large ketones even eating 100 + g of carbs. I am not telling Doc that "his plan" is putting me into ketosis cause I could eat more carbs per his plan but I choose to replace some of them with another of MY protein shakes. Although I eat tomotoes and Romain lettuce and steamed green beans even some strawberries. and still show moderate on a ketostik
> I have been staying around 1300 cals a day and still dropping.


 
I personally wouldn't have 3 shakes a day... IMO, I feel it's best to limit shakes to post workout only and eat food the rest of the day. Is there a reason your doc wants you to have so many shakes?


----------



## Built (Mar 29, 2011)

5thgeartapped, I take a whey shake before meals - please read the study I posted above. It helps with appetite control.


----------



## jagbender (Mar 29, 2011)

5thgeartapped said:


> I personally wouldn't have 3 shakes a day... IMO, I feel it's best to limit shakes to post workout only and eat food the rest of the day. Is there a reason your doc wants you to have so many shakes?


\

Doc is working on getting my fat off. Once I lose most of my fat the diet will change gradually introducing more carbs as tolerated. 

Doc only wants 2 shakes a day His plan shake 

One shake Macros 

GramsCalories%-CalsCalories240
Fat5.0
45
18
%Saturated1.0
9
4
%Polyunsaturated0.5
4
2
%Monounsaturated1.5
14
6
%Carbohydrate27.0
108
44
%Dietary Fiber4.0
Protein23.0
92
38
%Alcohol0.0
0
0
Fat( 18%)
Carbs (44%)
Protein ( 38%)
Alcohol ( 0 %)


One meal a day 400-600 calories Usually include LF turkey burger steamed green beans Roomaine lettuce balsalmic Vinegad and fresh strawberries 
2 snacks like a hard boiled egg or 12 raw almonds etc. 

I have added a cassein shake at night to up the total protein. 

The only fats I eat are EVOO flax oil and naturally occuring fats in the foods I eat and of course the shakes


----------

