# What's causing my wild mood swings??



## mozrx (Feb 16, 2005)

I need your help, folks.  Please take a look at this list and help me determine what is causing me to have wild mood swings and bad depression.  My doc wants me to stop all supplements - even protien - and never take them again.  But if I can isolate what is causing this, that would be ideal.  Is it just a case of Post-Cycle depression?  Is my Nolva dose too high?  Nix the 6-oxo??  Is it the e-Creatine??  Please help!

I'm in post-cycle from a 2 week m1T/4-AD/MDHT cycle.  I had symptons of gyno appear and began taking high doses Nolva.  

I take Effexor 37.5 mg ED and 12.5 MG Trazedone ED.

For post-cycle I'm taking:

Nolvadex liquid 120mg ED
6-OXO 5 caps a night
TribuPlex 750 3 caps a day
HOT PLANTS (for sex drive which contains Maca, Yohimbe, Rhodiola, Horny Goat Weed, Ginseng, Tongkat Ali)

I also take:

4000 MG L-Tyrosine ED
Estrified Creatine from 1Fast
Glutamine
600 MG Alpha Lipoic Acid before each meal
CLA
Flax Oil
Milk Thistle
ZMA
Citrulline Malate
Arginine-Alpha Ketoglutarate
DiArginine Malate
Caffiene 200mg

Which ones are the likey to cause bad depression and mood swings? Thanks.


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## gococksDJS (Feb 16, 2005)

Taking ZMA would give me mood swings b/c its worthless unless your having sleeping trouble


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## mozrx (Feb 16, 2005)

I do have trouble sleeping, which is why I take it.  ZMA gave you mood swings?


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## Stu (Feb 16, 2005)

supplement companies must love you!

 120mg of nolva ED along with 6-oxo is complete over kill

 whats the deal with so many supplements you could probably ditch about %60 of them and feel no noticable difference


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## vellanator (Feb 16, 2005)

Damn dude, that's a lot of supps.  

Speaking for myself, anything speed-like (caffeine, L-tyrosine, that Hot Plants thingy you're taking, etc.) can cause borderline panic attacks in high enough doses.

I'd cut all that out for the time being and see what gives.

In the meantime, you're in PCT which means - who the hell knows what's going on with you hormonally.  Nolvadex, esp. at the dosage you're taking, is more than sufficient for your recovery as far as I have read.  Personally I'd cut the 60X0.  

Re: Nolva - How long are you planning to run it that high, and what's your plan for tapering down?  

If you're not seeing a difference (or even if you do) cut:

ZMA
Citrulline Malate
Arginine-Alpha Ketoglutarate
DiArginine Malate


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## redspy (Feb 16, 2005)

Well, if I had to take all that shit every day I'd be in a mood too.

But seriously it's probably the PCT blues combined with you your massive dose of Nolva.


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## Du (Feb 16, 2005)

120mg Nolva E/D??????

What the fuck is the reasoning behind that one?


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## Arnold (Feb 16, 2005)

mozrx said:
			
		

> I need your help, folks.  Please take a look at this list and help me determine what is causing me to have wild mood swings and bad depression.  My doc wants me to stop all supplements - even protien - and never take them again.  But if I can isolate what is causing this, that would be ideal.  Is it just a case of Post-Cycle depression?  Is my Nolva dose too high?  Nix the 6-oxo??  Is it the e-Creatine??  Please help!
> 
> I'm in post-cycle from a 2 week m1T/4-AD/MDHT cycle.  I had symptons of gyno appear and began taking high doses Nolva.
> 
> ...



are you serious? who the hell knows! you're taking so many different supps it could any one of them, or combination, there is no way anyone could isolate what is causing your mood swings.


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## Du (Feb 16, 2005)

Its gotta be either the flax oil or Milk Thistle.


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## Curlingcadys (Feb 16, 2005)

are you a part time lab rat?


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## Tha Don (Feb 16, 2005)

redspy said:
			
		

> Well, if I had to take all that shit every day I'd be in a mood too.
> 
> But seriously it's probably the PCT blues combined with you your massive dose of Nolva.



i'd agree, its most likely to be post cycle depression if you just noticing it after your m1t cycle


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## Tha Don (Feb 16, 2005)

du510 said:
			
		

> Its gotta be either the flax oil or Milk Thistle.



 

whats your logic?


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## Du (Feb 16, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> whats your logic?


Bein a wise-ass.


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## soxmuscle (Feb 16, 2005)

du510 said:
			
		

> Bein a wise-ass.


Typical du... jackass.


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## Cold Iron (Feb 16, 2005)

A lot of people suffer depression post-cycle, bo biggie


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## Witmaster (Feb 16, 2005)

OK!  That's a pretty broad grocery list you got there....

Here's where I would start.

DROP Everything but:
Flax Oil
Milk Thistle
Nolvadex liquid 120mg ED
Estrified Creatine from 1Fast

Yes, drop the "Hot Plants" (whatever the fuck that shit is).  If you're worried about Labido then get some Anabolic Matrix RX.

Try life with a little less supplementation and see how your sleep patterns settle.  If you still suffer restlessness at night consider some Valerian Root and/or Melatonin to help sleep.

Now if I had to guess, I'd say your mood swings are probably a direct correlation between your sleep disorder and all the herbs you take to spike your sex drive.  Not to mention you are overloaded on PCT (Nolva AND 6OXO is a bit overkill).

Bottom Line,  To "isolate" the culprit supp could be anyone's guess.  The best approach is to drop all that crap (other than your essential PCT Supps) and see what happens.

Oh, and on a parting comment, I didn't see any sort of Multi-Vitamin listed in that massive list of supps.  Are you taking any?


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## Eggs (Feb 16, 2005)

If I was taking all that shit I'd be twiggin like a crack head.

Seriously, like the others said... cut back on your stuff, your body shouldnt have to handle all that shit at once.

Out of curiosity, what did your m1T/4-AD/MDHT cycle look like?  Did you test it in low doses to see how your body would react?


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## Eggs (Feb 16, 2005)

Oh, and while I'm not sure if I would personally stop taking all supplements forever (I only take protein and a multi though), I'd certainly be more careful with your liver.  After the M1T, creatine, lotsa protein, etc its got to be hurting.


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## soxmuscle (Feb 16, 2005)

Eggs said:
			
		

> Oh, and while I'm not sure if I would personally stop taking all supplements forever (I only take protein and a multi though), I'd certainly be more careful with your liver. After the M1T, creatine, lotsa protein, etc its got to be hurting.


Creatine and alot of protein effect your liver negatively and are in the same league as that of a PH/PS?


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## Cardinal (Feb 16, 2005)

Holy mackeral.  You take as much as I keep onhand.  I might take that many too but I doubt I would remember to take it each day.  

My vote goes to typical post cycle depression and mood swings.  Unless you are horribly bad off, I would wait it out, drop down to a sane dose of nolva and see how things go.

Most of the stuff you listed I am familiar with and feel will have little to no effect whatsoever on your mood in comparison to going through pct.  The Rx meds I am not so familiar with.

Your list isn't actually all that long.  Post it over at supplement central (avant labs) and it would look quite normal.


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## Stu (Feb 17, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> Creatine and alot of protein effect your liver negatively and are in the same league as that of a PH/PS?



No not at all


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## Eggs (Feb 17, 2005)

stu21Ldn said:
			
		

> No not at all



Nope, of course not 

http://www.qfac.com/whey_protein_2.html

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content...8646625292_2535&FIRSTINDEX=0&journalcode=nejm

Anyhow, the jury is still out... but its funny that people think that they just put stuff in their bodies and it just goes into them.  Somethings got to process it right?  The creatine and whey by themselves were not a biggie... but I imagine that the guy was taking a heavy dose of M1T which has a heavy hit on the liver.


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## Stu (Feb 17, 2005)

Eggs said:
			
		

> Nope, of course not
> 
> http://www.qfac.com/whey_protein_2.html
> 
> ...


  i was saying they're not in the same league as ph/ps for liver damage


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## ZECH (Feb 17, 2005)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> are you serious? who the hell knows! you're taking so many different supps it could any one of them, or combination, there is no way anyone could isolate what is causing your mood swings.


True. But If I had to make a guess, the anti-depressants and hormones probably don't mix too well. Definatley stop the M1T/4/ad/MDHT.


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## LAM (Feb 17, 2005)

dg806 said:
			
		

> True. But If I had to make a guess, the anti-depressants and hormones probably don't mix too well. Definatley stop the M1T/4/ad/MDHT.



BINGO !  kind of a no-brainer don't ya think ?


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## westb51 (Feb 17, 2005)

Curlingcadys said:
			
		

> are you a part time lab rat?




I read somewhere that David Boston takes about 90 pills a day. Anyone else heard that?


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## Witmaster (Feb 17, 2005)

westb51 said:
			
		

> I read somewhere that David Boston takes about 90 pills a day. Anyone else heard that?


I'm pretty sure Kieth Richards beat that but he was doing injections as well.


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## maze (Feb 17, 2005)

Thats not that big of a list, compared with what gus at my gym take ...

The nolva dose is too high, lower that to 60mg or you can have a estrogen comeback and that could be worse for the gyno. Stop taking 6-OXO if you are on Nolva there is no need, keep it for your next cycle and take it on-cycle at low dosis.

The mood swings are sometimes related to low B-Vitamin levels, sometimes from high concentration of toxins in liver and intestines.. i recommend that you take a B-100 complex with Inositol and Choline (most times they are allready included in the complex)  Hormonal changes can cause mood swings too and can be a side of your cycle.


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## vellanator (Feb 17, 2005)

I didn't catch the antidepressants my first read through.  Seriously, that HOT PLANTS crap has GOT to have an MAOI or three in there which will react severely with your antidepressants.

If you're married to your supps, do yourself a favor and cut that one at the very least.  That will make you mental quicker than when your girlfriend asks, "What are you thinking?".

And cut your Nolva dosage.

And the 60X0.


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## mozrx (Feb 18, 2005)

OKay - Thanks for the love guys. ;-)

I forgot to list that I also take a b-vitamin complex and a multi.

I stopped taking:
6-OXO 
TribuPlex 750
HOT PLANTS
4000 MG L-Tyrosine ED
Glutamine
Milk Thistle
ZMA
Caffiene 200mg

Here's what I think happened.  I think the main culprit was the 4000MG of L-Tyrosine I was taking each day.  I was actually popping them whenever I was feeling low energy, so it could be even higher than 4G on some days.  I just read that L-Tyrosine competes for Tryptophan to cross the blood-brain barrier, and if they are both present, Tyrosine always wins.  Tryptopahn converts to serotonin.  I was effectively robbing my brain of serotonin.  I became very angry and depressed, which I thought was weird post cycle - I usually mellow out.

I stopped all the stuff I listed and I feel like myself again.  This was a big wake-up call to moderate my supplements.  I was not myself.  I was a bad scene.

The only other thing could be the high dose of Nolva.  I still have left over Gyno symptons, so I'm reducing my Nolva *liquid* dose to 60MG.

Thanks for your feeback!


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## Yunier (Feb 18, 2005)

Interesting.

I thought L-tyrosine dosage was supposed to be about 300-500mg daily?


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## cinskip (Apr 27, 2005)

It was the Hot Plants, Tongkat Ali, LJ 100, that caused your bad mood swings, guy, cuz it did the same thing to me, and I take prozac as well.  STay away from Tongkat Ali/LJ100.


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## Todd_ (Apr 28, 2005)

yohimbe is known to have strong effects on mood/behavior


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## benjani1 (Dec 23, 2010)

all of those tings you take av an effect on your mind . 6-oxo dropps estro . rapid fluctuations of estro can cause anxiety and depression due to alterations in serotonin . plus your takin nolvadex wit it . den u r on effexor , an anti depressant ? yohimbine has been proven to be phycotropic and a strong neve stimulant . tribulus can cause some people to have racing minds as well as raises in estro. ginseng wit effexor is a no no , just look up on internet , sumtin bout it bein a moai inhibitor. maca raises cortisol which whilst horny can also make you feel stressed . horney goat weed again is bad whilst on a.d s . just read post on dis site bout it .goat weed causes raise in blood pressure , dats it. arginine is bad for people wit mental health probs caz can bring out and worsen symtoms espeacly in schtzos. too much zinc and magnesium can cause depression . you should listen to your doctor . most supps always say dont take if av mentalhealth probs . you do, so why take dem . u ignor de warning now you feel like shit ...duh . you know what . i feel like grabbing you and shaking you . ive been on dis site for a couple of months now and one ting i have realised is dis . sup companies dont giv a shit bout u . dey sel u a dream wit clever marketing jus like de face cream industry av been doin to woman for ages . now its de mens turn . yes , sum work but everyting you put in your body has a reaction . it wont suprise me that in a couple of years they wil be toutin p.c.t for your p.c.t !. stick to the basics . protein , flax , fish oil , aminos , creatine . train hard . dun . fuck the hormone bull shit and just be yourself . its extremely irresponsible of you to be taking all dat shit whilst on STRONG perscription meds . i suffer from depression and it angers me dat you are fucking with yourself so bad for some extra muscle . do you think when your buffed you wont need meds any more . do you think muscle will cure depression .WAKE UP . love yourself . you are more dan a walkin dumping ground for various chemicals ..............flax contains phyto estrogens so drop dat . swop for fish oil. creatine will make you feel jumpy when you av effexor in your system . drop the other shit , save yourself some money and take the girlfriend on holiday instead . youll get more bak in return den any bollox supp can giv you .


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## cavtrooper96 (Dec 23, 2010)

benjani1 said:


> all of those tings you take av an effect on your mind . 6-oxo dropps estro . rapid fluctuations of estro can cause anxiety and depression due to alterations in serotonin . plus your takin nolvadex wit it . den u r on effexor , an anti depressant ? yohimbine has been proven to be phycotropic and a strong neve stimulant . tribulus can cause some people to have racing minds as well as raises in estro. ginseng wit effexor is a no no , just look up on internet , sumtin bout it bein a moai inhibitor. maca raises cortisol which whilst horny can also make you feel stressed . horney goat weed again is bad whilst on a.d s . just read post on dis site bout it .goat weed causes raise in blood pressure , dats it. arginine is bad for people wit mental health probs caz can bring out and worsen symtoms espeacly in schtzos. too much zinc and magnesium can cause depression . you should listen to your doctor . most supps always say dont take if av mentalhealth probs . you do, so why take dem . u ignor de warning now you feel like shit ...duh . you know what . i feel like grabbing you and shaking you . ive been on dis site for a couple of months now and one ting i have realised is dis . sup companies dont giv a shit bout u . dey sel u a dream wit clever marketing jus like de face cream industry av been doin to woman for ages . now its de mens turn . yes , sum work but everyting you put in your body has a reaction . it wont suprise me that in a couple of years they wil be toutin p.c.t for your p.c.t !. stick to the basics . protein , flax , fish oil , aminos , creatine . train hard . dun . fuck the hormone bull shit and just be yourself . its extremely irresponsible of you to be taking all dat shit whilst on STRONG perscription meds . i suffer from depression and it angers me dat you are fucking with yourself so bad for some extra muscle . do you think when your buffed you wont need meds any more . do you think muscle will cure depression .WAKE UP . love yourself . you are more dan a walkin dumping ground for various chemicals ..............flax contains phyto estrogens so drop dat . swop for fish oil. creatine will make you feel jumpy when you av effexor in your system . drop the other shit , save yourself some money and take the girlfriend on holiday instead . youll get more bak in return den any bollox supp can giv you .


 
Look at the date of this thread. The OP im sure is already locked up in a puzzle factory somewhere!


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## dave 236 (Dec 23, 2010)

Cavtrooper you're right, but just for the record if anyone starts this thread up again, Yohimbine and caffine in large doses can be an evil combo in some people.


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