# Does all of this advice (calories per day, Leptin, refeeds) apply for fat people?



## NeilPearson (Oct 26, 2005)

About 5-6 weeks ago my wife and I decided to change our lifestyle and get in shape, etc....

Anyway I was 230 pounds, 5'11".  She was 5'8" and about 196 pounds.  We looked at all the calorie suggestions and they seemed really high.  We were (actually still are) both pretty weak from our lack of exercise and desk jobs.  We are in our mid 30s.

We decided on 1850 calories a day for myself and 1450 calories a day for her.  If we followed the various calculators, I would be eating about 2700 and she would be eating about 2300.  We aren't hungry on the diets we're on and it seems like plenty of food.  I couldn't imagine being able to lose weight with much more calories.  So here is the question, since a lot of our mass is fat and not lean body mass, does it make sense to go with the lower calories.  I can understand eating that much if I was 230 pounds and 10-15% bf but since I am not trying to maintain that amount of lean body mass, it would seem to me that I obviously should not be eating the same amount as someone of the same weight and a lower body fat.  Why do none of these calculators take bf% as part of the equation?

My other question is about Leptin and refeeds.  I read that Leptin levels will be higher with higher body fat.  Is it necessary to do refeeds to continue to lose weight even if you have a high body fat or will the high body fat compensate for that and keep Leptin levels high?  I ask because in the first 4 weeks I have went down from 230 to 217 but the last 2 weeks have seemed to plateau... but also remember this is the first time that I have ever worked out too.  I'm not sure but I think that my body fat has been dropping even the last 2 weeks.  As a newbie, it is pretty easy to put on muscle so I am thinking that the weight staying the same was a combination of losing fat and gaining muscle.  I know my cloths fit different than they did 2 weeks ago.

In 6 weeks, I have lost 13 pounds and my wife has lost 6 pounds.  I'm not sure but it seems like weight loss has slowed down a lot for me and my wife's weight loss has slowed or stopped too.

So I am wondering is this stop in weight loss because we aren't eating enough calories, we need a refeed or is it fairly normal as fat people start putting on a little muscle for the first time in their lives.  Do we start to consume more calories or just wait it out a few more weeks, continue our diet and just see what happens?


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## juggernaut2005 (Oct 26, 2005)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> About 5-6 weeks ago my wife and I decided to change our lifestyle and get in shape, etc....
> 
> Anyway I was 230 pounds, 5'11".  She was 5'8" and about 196 pounds.  We looked at all the calorie suggestions and they seemed really high.  We were (actually still are) both pretty weak from our lack of exercise and desk jobs.  We are in our mid 30s.
> 
> ...



im no expert by any means  but eating low calories might be counter productive it puts your body in defensive mode and your body will store everything it eats asfat because its not getting enough food

Try and get protein powders and shoot for 6 small meals/day (u can subsitute 3 or 4 with the protein powder).. youll be surprised how much fat you'll drop doing something that basic

-drink tons of water (i drink 3-5Liters /day)
-try and get some sesamin (this is optional)..do a search on sesamin, it has some promising effects on burning fat and alos good for your liver
-if you work out, dont overdo it..try and hit the weights 3 x week and shoot for 3 days of cardio at 20mins/session and slowly build up to 30 or 45mins..
-drink tons of water (did I say this before)
-stay away from sugar   (sodas, candy, ziltch)
-try and eat whole grains (oats ..not the ones with sugar tho)
substitute white rice with brown rice
-potatoes are good  
-buy a food measure... its very easy to overeat if you dont have an idea of what a serving is
-be positive
-dont expect to get shredded in 1week.. it takes time
-dont listen to foremanrules    (just kidding)


Hope I helped a bit.. Liek I said im not a guru but ive learned a lot on this site and its helped me feel better about myself and improve my health


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## NeilPearson (Oct 26, 2005)

I understand all those things, my diet has been all the right foods, I am just not sure if it has been enough.  It has been working pretty good so far though.  Like I said, I have dropped 13 pounds in 6 weeks which I can't complain about... and I am never hungry.  It seems like I am always eating something but my calories are still around 1700-1900 a day.  

I just wasn't sure if refeeds were ever needed with high body fat and whether the daily calories needed would depend on bf% and not just overall weight.  I would think that since muscle needs more calories than fat, I can't eat like I was 217 pounds of muscle when a lot of that really is fat.


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## myCATpowerlifts (Oct 26, 2005)

I don't agree with a few of juggernauts advices...
You should NOT replace 3-4 meals with a protein shake...that's terrible for the average person.
Whole foods are best, get 4-5 whole food meals and replace 1-2 with a shake...

Post your actual meals for the day, that will help a lot, and I'm sure more people are going to ask you to do that.  it may be that your macro's are out of whack...


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## NeilPearson (Oct 26, 2005)

Today I was 736 fat calories, 669 carb calories and 619 protein calories for a total of 2024

fat / carb / protein / total calories has been like this the last few days:
360 / 705 / 770 / 1836
625 / 811 / 445 / 1881 - I know protein should be higher
306 / 631 / 638 / 1574 - total was low this day
534 / 846 / 407 / 1787 - again protein could be higher
247 / 1013 / 586 / 1846
451 / 561 / 557 / 1568
400 / 766 / 637 / 1803

I don't take any supplements or protein shakes (except a multi-vitamin and sometimes extra vit C)... just food so it is sometimes challenging to keep the protein high.  Every day I get at least 25 grams of fiber.

I eat mainly the following:

chicken breasts - lots
some lean steak
eggs
whole grain cheerios
pistachios
brown rice
various granola bars (Odwalla, Kashi, and some Nature Valley type bars)
oranges
bananas
cantaloupe
celery
whole grain bread sometimes
South Beach cereal bars - 5g fat, 15g carbs, 10g protein
peas, carrots

sometimes (although rarely) something a little different like soup or a 6 inch Subway sub with no cheese and their whole wheat bun (320 calories) or a homemade type of sandwich.

I am pretty careful about the calories on everything though.  Not all my meals are balanced but I usually try and get pretty balanced by the end of the day.


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## juggernaut2005 (Oct 27, 2005)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> Today I was 736 fat calories, 669 carb calories and 619 protein calories for a total of 2024
> 
> fat / carb / protein / total calories has been like this the last few days:
> 360 / 705 / 770 / 1836
> ...



I suggested the shakes cuz not everyone can eat 4 small cooked meal/day cuz some of us work and can't be at the kitchen 24 7!

everything looks good but the granola bars have to go!
I think you are over concerned with the calories... how about a breakdown of macros?? like how much protein/carbs/fat are you getting?  You may be eating the right about of calories but wrong macro ration..  I personally stay away from bread, switch from carrots/canteloup to brocolli/cauliflower


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## NeilPearson (Oct 27, 2005)

juggernaut2005 said:
			
		

> I suggested the shakes cuz not everyone can eat 4 small cooked meal/day cuz some of us work and can't be at the kitchen 24 7!
> 
> everything looks good but the granola bars have to go!
> I think you are over concerned with the calories... how about a breakdown of macros?? like how much protein/carbs/fat are you getting?  You may be eating the right about of calories but wrong macro ration..  I personally stay away from bread, switch from carrots/canteloup to brocolli/cauliflower



That was a breakdown of the macros.

I've heard it from a lot of body builders that carrots and canteloup are bad...

A cup of carrots has 52 calories, 1.3g protein, 12.3g carbs, 3.6g fiber, 5.8g sugars.  Canaloupe is similar.

A cup of cauliflower is about half that on everything, except protein which is a little more... yeah I guess it is better but with carefully measured out portions, I'm not sure why it would matter.

Eating carrots and granola bars are a long shot from McDonalds and 8 slices of pizza.

We're not talking about eating massive amounts of refined sugars here.

By the way, I weighed in at 215.5 today so it looks like I broke through that 217 that I was stuck on for 11 days.  I just went back and counted the weeks.  It will be 5 weeks tomorrow since I started the dieting.  I feel better about it now.  14.5 pounds lost in 5 weeks while increasing most of my weights by at least 10-20 pounds.... newbie gains are great


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## myCATpowerlifts (Oct 27, 2005)

You sound like you are doing fine to me.  Keep at it, and good luck!


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## Stu (Oct 27, 2005)

You should calculate your calorific needs using lean body mass, you do not want to feed fat


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## KentDog (Oct 27, 2005)

Neil, what do you and your wife do for working out? It may be that you just need to increase intensity in your workouts. Are you lifting weights? You sound like you're doing good on the diet, but if you want to get really strict, I would get rid of the Cheerios. I'm guessing you are eating Cheerios for breakfast, I would substitue with Oats (plain) mixed with natural peanut butter for fat. Add a protein source of your choice. I would also scrap the granola bars, and cereal bars, especially if you are eating a lot of them for snacks. Replace with apples, pears, or some other soft of healthy snack.


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## NeilPearson (Oct 27, 2005)

Stu said:
			
		

> You should calculate your calorific needs using lean body mass, you do not want to feed fat



 

Exactly what I thought.  The funny thing is the calories calculators I have seen just go off of weight and don't make any distinction between fat a muscle weight.  I think that should be a major factor to the calculation, much more than something like height which they all use.


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## tucker01 (Oct 27, 2005)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> Exactly what I thought.  The funny thing is the calories calculators I have seen just go off of weight and don't make any distinction between fat a muscle weight.  I think that should be a major factor to the calculation, much more than something like height which they all use.



Not only that we all have metabolic rates.  I know some people with a similar body type to me,  there maintenace Calories would be my bulk.  It is all about progress.  Measurements, Clothing and the mirror are your best guide to your progress.

Remember these Calculators are only guidelines based on averages.


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## NeilPearson (Oct 27, 2005)

KentDog said:
			
		

> Neil, what do you and your wife do for working out? It may be that you just need to increase intensity in your workouts. Are you lifting weights? You sound like you're doing good on the diet, but if you want to get really strict, I would get rid of the Cheerios. I'm guessing you are eating Cheerios for breakfast, I would substitue with Oats (plain) mixed with natural peanut butter for fat. Add a protein source of your choice. I would also scrap the granola bars, and cereal bars, especially if you are eating a lot of them for snacks. Replace with apples, pears, or some other soft of healthy snack.



I don't think the multigrain Cheerios are that bad.  Definitely better than most cereals I've seen.  1 cup = 110 calories, 1g fat, 24g carbs (3g fiber, 6g sugar), 3g protein

The sugar grams are actually quite low - that and I only have them maybe once or twice a week.  I try to have eggs for breakfast just because it makes it easier to hit my protein goals.

I happen to be allergic to apples and pears and fruit with that kind of a texture so I end up eating bananas, grapes, oranges, melons.

Some of these food items might not be optimal but I have taken off 15 pounds now in 5 weeks.  My wife probably only 6-7 pounds in the same time but then again, I know women have trouble losing as fast as men.  Either way I am now thinking the rate of loss for both of us is acceptable, especially since we are both lifting quite a bit more than we were 5 weeks ago.  I did have 11 days of not really any loss and then today, suddenly 1.5 pounds lighter... I am not sure if I should really be worried about those 11 days.  I think I just need to monitor it over the next couple of months and get more data before I really know what is going on.  When I look at the short term of the last 2 weeks, my weight loss wasn't much but over 5 weeks, it averaged to about 3 pounds a week so I can't really complain.  And my wife even at a pound a week, isn't horrible.  I don't think I am going to change either of our diets yet.  I need more data and then maybe I'll start changing some of the food items that aren't optimal if needed.  You have to remember, 5 weeks ago dinner could have been splitting a large pizza and a pitcher of beer - so this is quite the change already.

For exercise, I do 3 days a week of lifting and play hockey twice a week and mix some jumping rope in there (that really kicks the hell out of me)

I do a shoulder/chest day
day off
legs/abs
day off
back/arms
2 days off and repeat

Each day is about 7 different exercises 4 sets of each trying to hit failure around 5-8 reps


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## Vieope (Oct 27, 2005)

_I agree with everyone who wrote long posts. _


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