# Bulking w/ Slow Burners



## w8lifter (Apr 10, 2002)

_All courtesy of Dr. Pain (Fat Cell)_

I'm get a lot of  questions on how to add LBM w/o BF. Bulking or cutting, I use slow burning carbohydrates. The basic concept is to consume fat and fiber to slow insulin flow and avoid fat storage. Then, rather than trying to oxidize fat as we do in cutting, we provide the body with enough slow burning carbs to fuel it's metabolism (in balance with fat calories), which in turn spares protein for muscle synthesis! GROW MORE MUSCLE, STORE LESS FAT!!

*Men's Bulk*

This is the program is for a 180# guy with a fast metabolism going to 195 in 5 weeks! 

Supps:

Multi with meal one
10 grams of creatine a day
5 grams of glutamine before training/ 10 grams after

Oil mix equals 1/2 flax and 1/2 safflower
Oatmeal is always old fashion (slow cooking)

Meal #1
2 whole eggs + 4 egg whites
6 - 8 oz. 93% lean beef or chicken 
½ - 3/4 cup oatmeal before cooking 
1 TBS Flax Oil (or oil mix)

Meal #2
Protein Drink: 2-3 Scoops Protein, 4-6 TBS whipping 
cream, and 12-18-oz water
½ banana or 4 frozen strawberries

Meal #3
8 - 10 oz. chicken (before cooking)
6 - 8 oz. sweet potato or 1/2 ??? 1 cup cooked rice
2 cups vegetables (broccoli, etc.) 

Meal #4
Protein Drink: 2-3 Scoops Protein Powder, 4-6 TBS whipping 
cream, and 12-18-oz water
½ banana or 4 frozen strawberries)

Meal #5 
8 - 10 oz. sirloin steak or lean meat
2 cups vegetables 
6 oz potato 
1 TBS Flax Oil (or oil mix)

Meal #6 (Non Training Days)
10 -oz chicken breast, 2 cups vegetables;
Or: 3 Scoops protein powder, 6 TBS whipping cream, 20-oz water

Meal #6 (Training Days)
1.5 cups cooked rice, 10 oz sweet potato, 
1 banana, 1 cup vegetables, 1 TBS Butter or Peanut Butter

 DRINK 6-8 QUARTS A DAY!

*Women's Bulk*

Take a few days and work into this, up calories gradually!

Supps: Multi with meal one, 5 grams glutamine before training, 5 grams after, and 5 grams of creatine a day after loading

NO CARDIO, NO THERMOS for 5 weeks!

Meal #1
4 oz chicken or turkey breast
4 egg whites, 1 yolk
1/2 cup (measured before cooking) oatmeal

Meal #2
Protein Drink: 12-oz water, 2 scoops Protein powder
3 TBS heavy cream or 1 tbs oil blend and 4 strawberries or 1/2 banana


Meal #3
6 oz chicken breast
2 cups salad
2 TBS Paul Newman???s Oil & Vinegar dressing
6 oz sweet potato or 3/4 cup of rice 

Meal #4
6 oz chicken breast 
1 cup vegetables or

2 scoop protein powder, 12 oz watwr 3 tbl cream or 1 tbs oil blend, 1/2 banana or 4 frozen strawbwerries

Meal #5
6 oz lean beef or chicken
1-cup vegetables
2 tsp Flax Oil
6 oz sweet potato or 3/4 cup of rice

Meal #6 except Sunday and Wednesday, shake like meals 2 and 4

Sunday and Wednesday have - a cup of oatmeal, 6-oz sweet potato, 4-oz banana, and 1-cup vegetables as a 6th meal. 

Drink 1.5 gallons water daily 

DP

p.s This would actually work as a cut for some above 150-160# who have a decent metabolism



_Just a note on mini-cycles_

The idea is for shorter bulks and cuts, ultimately leading to the same goal, more LBM! Whereas an Old School BB may bulk for 3-4 months of more depending on whether he is doing one or more contests a year! This usually results in 20-60 pounds being gained with a substantial amount of BF!

The BB then cuts for 12-16 weeks and ends up with a net gain of 10 pounds of LBM for 6-8 months work! (sometimes a year)

A mini cycle approach maintains a lower level of BF year round, requiring shorter diet cycles to sharpen up the physique!

Depending on the metabolism, a person might bulk for 3-5 weeks and gain 8-10 pounds, some BF but not much! He/she then cuts for 2-3 weeks or whatever it takes to lower that little bit of BF accummulation from the bulk, losing 3-5 pounds. The net result is a LBM gain of 3-5 pounds or whatever the goal may be!

Do that several times during the year, never allowing your BF to go too high, and you reach the same place, plus 10 or more pounds of LBM!

It is an individualistic thing! Slower metabolisms require longer cuts shorter bulks, and vice versa!


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## kuso (Apr 10, 2002)

So you`re trying to tell me that  by relying on JD and coke as my carb source ain`t gonna work....


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## Rob_NC (Apr 11, 2002)

This brings up a few questions. 

1.  My metabolism has slowed considerably in the last few years due to a more sedentary job and age.  What should I change in the diet to compensate for a slower metabolism?

2.  Can safflower or peanut oil be used as a substitute for whipping cream?  If so, how much?  Lack of refrigeration capacity where I work is a problem.


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## w8lifter (Apr 11, 2002)

_More info from Dr. Pain!_

We had a thirteen day weigh-in after the start of this diet, and the man I placed on this, who has now started to add whole milk to his shakes, (went to a whole banana last week) gained 9 pounds from 177 to 186. His BF has not changed much, he still has some abs and is approx 9%

The woman, has gained 3 pounds from 136 to 139. recently she squatted 245, a new record for her!

These programs are clean, and green. Both our little bulkers have set numerous strength PR's in the last 10 days!


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## w8lifter (Apr 11, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Rob_NC *_
> This brings up a few questions.
> 
> 1.  My metabolism has slowed considerably in the last few years due to a more sedentary job and age.  What should I change in the diet to compensate for a slower metabolism?



This is a Dr. Pain question, butt in the meantime, you can read this for natural metabolism boosters! 



> 2.  Can safflower or peanut oil be used as a substitute for whipping cream?  If so, how much?  Lack of refrigeration capacity where I work is a problem.



Yes, fats are interchangeable (generally speaking of course). 1 tbsp of flax, olive, safflower, etc.....(~15 grams of fat) = 3 tbsp heavy whipping cream....(5 g fat each tbsp).

Interesting!


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 11, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Rob_NC *_
> This brings up a few questions.
> 
> 1.  My metabolism has slowed considerably in the last few years due to a more sedentary job and age.  What should I change in the diet to compensate for a slower metabolism?



Not usually a question that belongs on a bulking post, but this helps explain the beauty and flexibility of the progam!

First, programs are always designed for the indidvdiual, and there are always many ways (paths) to achieve goals!

So intial questions are usually :

Your stats, age, height, weight BF%, somatotype, genetics (parents)

Your goals
Training
Metabolism
Current meal plan and macronutrient totals
ETC

Next , and this partially answers your question, we rely on meal frequency and macronutrient content to control the rate of bulk, insulin surges, and minimize fat accummulation!  We can speed up or compensate for a slow metabolism this way.

We actually do the same on a cut, we use frequency, portions and content.

If you care to answer thr questions, I can demonstrate.

DP


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## rebel (Sep 1, 2002)

> Meal #6 (Training Days)
> 1.5 cups cooked rice, 10 oz sweet potato,
> 1 banana, 1 cup vegetables, 1 TBS Butter or Peanut Butter
> 
> should this meal be eaten post workout?


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## Dr. Pain (Sep 1, 2002)

Can be, or as meal 6 before bed.  Depends when you train. 

You must have somewhat of a smokin metabolism to do this, also having followed the other meals strictly so that you are in a glycogen depleted state.


DP


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## Phobia (Sep 2, 2002)

Wow W8, you know alot about cooking!
How do you remember it all!


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## w8lifter (Sep 2, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Phobia *_
> Wow W8, you know alot about cooking!
> How do you remember it all!



Thanks but, everything in this thread comes from my better half


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## Dr. Pain (Sep 2, 2002)

Thank you w8!


DP


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## Leslie (Oct 21, 2002)

W8~DP...............

For what BW is the woman's bulk diet for? How would I need to adjust this for the winter bulk?


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## Dr. Pain (Oct 21, 2002)

Leslie, that was designed for a trainer named Paris.....some here from ABC have seen her pictures.  She used it Pre-cut for an NPC BB show, went from 126 to 142 on it.   It should work fine for you (and w8), just control the carb-ups. 


DP


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## Leslie (Oct 21, 2002)

COol Thanks DP!


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## Leslie (Oct 21, 2002)

When does a "cheat meal" play in the bulk? I want to bulk this winter with one cheat meal per week, or I will go bonkers!
What do you recommend?


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## nikegurl (Oct 21, 2002)

DP - when you say to "control the carb ups" does that just refer to portions of the twice weekly carb up at meal #6?  Thanks!


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## w8lifter (Oct 21, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Leslie2196 *_
> When does a "cheat meal" play in the bulk? I want to bulk this winter with one cheat meal per week, or I will go bonkers!
> What do you recommend?



I recommend you w8 till we give you your final meal plan  ...which includes a cheat meal


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## Leslie (Oct 21, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> 
> 
> I recommend you w8 till we give you your final meal plan  ...which includes a cheat meal




LOL, ok you know me, always planning ahead LOL
Thx W8!


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## Dr. Pain (Oct 21, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> DP - when you say to "control the carb ups" does that just refer to portions of the twice weekly carb up at meal #6?  Thanks!



Because of the "other" slow burners that are now incliuded in the daily meal plan......a highly IR person has to watch "herself" and stay in control!   (only carb when needed)


DP


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## Freeman (Jun 20, 2003)

Ok, I am thinking of trying thesem mini-bulks/cuts.  I have had a hard time increasing strenth though.  I've gained 30lbs since last summer, and some is muscle, cuz I can see it, but I also have noticed an unwanted increase in fat...I have stuck to a pretty good diet, hopefully these will work!  I need to get stronger!!!


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## P-funk (Jun 21, 2003)

yeah, it sefenitly does work.......I am bulking with slow burners right now....wll, actually I just started a mini cut.   I had bulked for about 10weeks and gained some good size with a small, or I should say smaller, amount of fat increase than if I just ate whatever I wanted.


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## Freeman (Jun 21, 2003)

Cool, yeah I've been bulking for basically ever hahaha!  I was a hard gainer at first, but now I think I added too much fat, I hsould have done this sooner...oh well..

Are you doing cardio on your mini-cut?  I'm taking some ripped fuel also...


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## P-funk (Jun 21, 2003)

No, I don't do cardio.lol

I don't do ECA either. I just straight up cut.


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## Freeman (Jun 21, 2003)

Yeah I hate cardio!  I used to love running 2-3 miles every morning after waking up...but, since I've cut that out (almost a year now)..I dread thinking about starting cardio again..I know I probably should, to have a healthier heart at least. blarg!


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## prendergast1 (Jul 16, 2003)

Hello, This is my first time on here im from London.

I'm trying to bulk-up but im not sure I'm doing the right things.

Meal 1, oatmeal, EAS simply protein, 1 apple and glutamaine, flax oil multi vits

Meal 2, oatmeal, EAS gain and flax

Meal 3, chicken breast, sweet potato green beans + flax

Meal 4, as above with EAS gain

Meal 5, EAS gain and 1 apple

Meal 6, chicken breast, sweet potato, green beans and yoghurt

Meal 7, met-rex, flax, glutamine and vit C

Can anyone tell me if this is ok for bulking up?


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## Jodi (Jul 16, 2003)

It looks very good!    My only question would the how much per meal are you getting and what are your macros for the day.  Also what are your stats?


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## prendergast1 (Jul 16, 2003)

Sorry, forgot to say i'm 5.9ft and weigh 179 pounds


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## prendergast1 (Jul 16, 2003)

Sorry this may sound silly but what are macros


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## Jodi (Jul 16, 2003)

Your Protein, Carbs, Fats etc.


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## Freeman (Jul 16, 2003)

nice avatar Jodi!


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## Jodi (Jul 16, 2003)

Thanks Mark!


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## prendergast1 (Jul 17, 2003)

Jodie,

Meal 1, 1 cup oatmeal, 1 mix EAS simply protein = 23grms protein,
glutamaine 1 tsp, flax 1,000mg and multi vit. 

Meal 2, 1 cup oatmeal, 1.5 mix EAS simply gain = 34.5 grms protein and 73.5 grms carbs and flax 1,000mg

Meal 3, 6 - 8 oz chicken breast, 8 oz sweet patato, 0.5 cup green beans and flax 1,000mg.

Work.out, I'm doing Gopro POWER, REP RANGE, SHOCK, workout.

Just before this workout i have 0.5 simply gain and straight after just before meal 4 i have 0.5 simply gain, glutamine and vit c.

Meal 4, same as meal 3.

Meal 5, simply gain = 23grms protein + 49grms carbs and 1 apple.

Meal 6, same as meal 3 plus low fat yoghurt.

Meal 7, 1 met-rex, flax, glutamaine and vit c.

Please can you tell me were i need to tweak or if i am doing anything wrong.

Thks in advance


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## Jodi (Jul 17, 2003)

Well, what are your stats?  

Thats an awful lot of protein supplement.  You should think about adding some more real food and less protein powder.


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## prendergast1 (Jul 17, 2003)

Jodie,

I am 5.9ft and 178 pounds.

What sort of foods can i add, please don't say eggs for meal 1 or 2 because i can't stand them. yesterday morning i had mackeral and oatmeal for meal 1 instead of simply protein. I also find it hard to find some to eat and mix with tuner as it is very dry and had to swallow.

Thks Michael


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## Jodi (Jul 17, 2003)

Did you if your a hard gainer?

You don't have to eat eggs if you don't want to.  

Chicken
Turkey
ANY Fish or Seafood
Canned Tuna
Canned Chicken
Canned Salmon
Ground Beef
Sirloin
Buffalo
Cottage Cheese


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## hustler11 (Jul 19, 2003)

how could i manipulate this diet for a 150 pounder instead of a 180?


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## Jodi (Jul 19, 2003)

Just cut the portions down.

If it says 8 oz. go with 6 oz. 
6 oz. go to 4 oz. 
1 Cup - use 3/4 C. (except for veggies)
1 Tablespoon - use 2 tsp.

etc.  So on.  If your a hard gainer and you havn't gained anything increase your portions if you are gaining too much decrease your portions.


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## hustler11 (Jul 19, 2003)

gotcha =) thanks jodi!


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## hustler11 (Aug 2, 2003)

why peanut butter, butter, or whipping cream?


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## Jodi (Aug 3, 2003)

Because you need some fat source with every meal.  Don't think fat is the enemy.  EFA's are always preferred.


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## MUMatt05 (Aug 23, 2003)

First time poster.

After reading P-Funk's journal thread, I'm fully inspired.  I've never tried to bullk before, but I think I'm ready to give it a try.

Background:  I was a competitive cyclist for 7 years.  It kills me not to do endurance activities, but I'm willing to try.  I'm 6'2" and a full out ectomorph.  My low competitive weight was 167 2 years ago.  Last season I stopped riding for no good reason.  This March I started picking up the weights.  I got up to 204 at the end of June, but have since dropped to 194.  The reason for the decline is tht for the past 6 weeks I've been helping my mother do Atkins by, well, doing it with her.  

I'm guessing I'm around 12-14%bf, just based off my definition or lack there of, as compared to when I was measured when I was riding.  As a cyclist, I was consistantly under 10%.

I'm by far the largest I've ever been.  I'm by far stronger than I've ever been.  I'd kind of like to explore this new extreme a little more.  This slow-burn bulking looks like a solid way to do that.

I have found a lot of information here, but I'd like to know more if possible.  Are there any published books detailing this sort of bulk that I could buy?  I think I'd feel more in control of the diet if I didn't just copy somebody elses plan.  I'm a student, so, I like the books. . .

Some random questions.  
Adding milk into the protein shakes ok?  
Cheese. . .please tell me it's a good thing.  
Whole eggs v. egg whites, please tell me that it's not a big deal if I don't get the yolks out.  
The specific oz's of food indicated.  Do you guys actually weigh every time, or just a few times until you get the feel of it & then go by that?

Thanks for the help!


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## Jodi (Aug 23, 2003)

Hey there welcome aboud.   P-Funk is definately the man to talk to about this diet.  There are no published books.  This is basically tried and true methods.  I know Funky definately follows this sort of bulk or on these lines.  I'll make sure he sees it later.

I can tell you that you don't want to be eating that many egg yolks so yes you do need to seperate them.  Milk in protein shakes ( I shudder saying this but) for a bulk you can get away with it.  On a cut I weigh every single time, other than that just weigh for the first few weeks and once you have an idea don't worry about it, you'll know in time how to eyeball measurements.
Cheese is not your friend sorry.  Its full of fat and if you want to bulk you will want to stay away from it.  Every now and then is fine but it will only make you fat when combined with all those carbs.  Stick with cottage cheese.


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## P-funk (Aug 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by MUMatt05 *_
> First time poster.
> 
> After reading P-Funk's journal thread, I'm fully inspired.  I've never tried to bullk before, but I think I'm ready to give it a try.
> ...



What does your current diet look like and do you know how many calories you are taking in right now??  basically my whole diet is based around the fact that after I finished cutting I slowley raised my cals until I hit about 4000 (sometimes even more than that) a day.  When I am bulking I do like slow burning carbs because they help keep me lean but I don't shy away from simple sugars (when bulking).  Often times, provided that I get my macros in (especially protein and EFAs) I'll eat some simple sugars (dried fruit, bananas etc.).  I find that they give me good energy to fuel my workouts and they give me a nice full, pumped look.  Post what you are currently eating (and maybe even start a journal of your own) and we can help you out better....Also why are you giving up endurance activities completely??


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## MUMatt05 (Aug 23, 2003)

What does my current diet look like?  What an excellent question, for which I will completely frustrate you with my answer.  I haven't really kept track of what I've been eating.  As I mentioned, I've been doing Atkins in support of my Mum.  I can give an example of a typical day, however.  This is only an example, but there has been more than one day like this.

example day:
1)  1scoop protein 5g glutamine in milk (always)
2)  3egg omlette w. slice of cheese (almost always)
3)  Atkins style protein bar            (or some other junk food bar)
4)  2 hotdogs w. 2 slices cheese   (or something easy to eat)
5)  1scoop protein in milk               (always)
5)  a small meal of some kind, generally chicken, turkey or roast beef, but could be hotdogs again  (could really be anything that's available)
6) 1scoop protein 5g glutamine in milk (always)

Now, before the scathing remarks, remember, I was only counting carbs, so in that respect I was doing very well   I recently added in the milk with the protein as I started running again & was afraid I'd start catabalising(sp).  Last few weeks have been 20&25mile weeks.  With the running the past 2 weeks & the added carbs from the milk, I've lost 1lb, maybe 2lb.  Weigh day isn't until tuesday.

As far as stopping endurance, I haven't.  I stopped riding this spring because of the death threats from the oh so friendly drivers.  I stopped racing last season for no good reason at all.  When I used to train for racing, the weeks would be anywhere from 12 to 31hrs of in the saddle effort.  The running I've been doing isn't really endurance work, it's just running if you know what I mean.

As far as lifting goes, I've sort of taken my cycling experience and applied it to this.  It sort of goes like this..."Any program when you're starting is better than no program at all.  The best thing to do though, better than any program, is just get on the bike and ride."  Well, substitute bike with weights, and that's where I'm at.  

Being a book guy, I bought 'Serious Strength Training' by Bompa & Cornacchia, and have been following the program in there.  It isn't like the ones I see here, the work the muscle once weekly style.  It is what I'm familiar with from football, 4 times per week, each muscle twice per week.  

At any rate, since I've only been lifting since March, I doubt the program itself is a large factor at this point as I'm still largely an untrained strength athlete, and as such, the best program is consistancy.  But hey, what do I know


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## P-funk (Aug 23, 2003)

I would drop the bar form your diet and I really don't like to much milk even when I am bulking.  Sometimes I'll eat about 1-2bowls of uncle sam cereal a week and that is all the milk i get.  Hotdogs are a big no no in my book....You need better protein sources than what you are getting.  read some of the stickes or look at the meals that I have in my journal.

Try and set up a diet and track your calories and macronutrients for a week.  then see were you are at weight wise....If you have not gained any weight up the cals some (about 200-400cals) and track that week.  keep doing this until you gain 1lb then you have found your caloric setpoint for bulking.  A good place to start at is to take you bodyweight and multiply it by 15.  Take the number that you get and that is the bascically the amount of calories that you need to maintain your bodyweight (this is kind of a generic way).

Once you find out what your caloric setpoint is then post your diet and I can show you what i do to set up my bulking plan.

What does your training program look like???  I have never heard of that book before.


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## Freeman (Sep 5, 2003)

Hey P-Funk...OR Jodi...

I wanna bulk using this basic plan, but noticed that meal 6 on training days has tons of carbs/fats and little protein, if much at all.  why is this?  and am I to inclue the rice, potato AND the banana, veggies, butter....or is it rice/potato OR banana veggies, etc.???


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## Jodi (Sep 5, 2003)

This program is for a hard gainer and on training days the purpose of the carb up is to replenish gylocgen.  If you would like, which for you Mark I think would be better, would be to just do the oats or sweet potato or brown rice AND protein.  I don't think you need the full carb up to bulk.  But, if progress is slow and you want more then slowly add in the carb up.


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## Freeman (Sep 6, 2003)

Yeah.  I just had 2 scoops of whey, 1/2 cup eggbeaters and hemp oil last night, just to be safe.  I'm not too much of a hardgainer anymore.  I do have a hard time getting stronger.  I'm 190lbs last time I checked.  I need to go buy a scale.  and weigh myself once a week.  maybe these late night carbs would help, I'll start out slow with them though.  thanks jodi!


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## P-funk (Sep 6, 2003)

I don't think the carb up in this plan is necessary so long as you keep your daily caloric intake above maintenance.  If your calories are high and your macro ratios are in check you are going to get to where you want to be IMO.


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## Freeman (Sep 6, 2003)

well, that's what I was figuring too...just wanted to check.  thanks P-funk.

Today wasn't supposed to be a cheat day, but when you get dragged to the sports bar to watch the Canes play, and you're due a meal, then it has to be a gorgonzola burger and fries, followed by some chocolate cake and vanilla ice cream....they say you gotta eat big to get big!


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## sknnbns (Jan 10, 2004)

*Excellent info and questions*

Started this bulk diet 8 days ago and have gained 8 pounds.  Unbelievable!  Eating this much food has been excruciating, but worth it.  I have been thin my whole life, but have tried to gain weight by lifting for about 15 years without much success following diets from M&F mag, what a rip off!   I have been about 180 for 10 years but recently dropped 20 pounds (less than 2 weeks) down to 160 doing the South Beach diet with my wife to support her while she was doing it.  I must have been brain damaged to do that.

I want to sincerely thank you for the info on the bulk diet and subsequent posts.  Not sure who to give the credit to (Dr. Pain, W8lifter, or Jodie, or all 3 of you)  You guys are wonderful!!!!

I have a few questions for you.  I am currently only working out using a hard gainer workout, twice a week (full body), emphasis on the basic compound movements (i.e. squats, bench, deadlift).  Also, I am 39 years old, 6'2'', 168 lbs.  High metabolism.

1.  First, any substitutions for any of the food on the bulk, it is getting difficult to choke down the eggs especially?  I really miss the cereal, especially the Kashi brand.  Possibly protein bars like Detour?

2.  I workout at 6:00 a.m., any problems with downing the first meal at around 5:15 to 5:30 a.m. on that day?

3.  How important is it to use the creatine, I am a bit hesitate to use it?  I tried it once and the loading phase made me feel a bit funky.

4.  Any problems with making any of the food in advance and freezing it, in particular the eggs, oatmeal and sweet potatoes?  If freezing is bad, can it be kept in the frig for a few days?

5.  Am I gaining too much weight too fast?

6.  If I start noticing too much gain in the mid-section, where should I cut back?

7.  Any other suggestions for me?

Thanks again.   Any info you could provide would be greatly appreciated.  The weight gain has been fantastic!!!


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## Alaric (Jan 10, 2004)

With the exception of the first meal, does it matter in the order in which the meals are consumed?

Like when I'm at school lits hard for me to make a protein shake with 4 strawberries, and a banana...Sometimes I gotta eat solid food, and then consume 2 shakes in a row (after 2.5 hours)


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## Jodi (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Excellent info and questions*



> _*Originally posted by sknnbns *_
> 1.  First, any substitutions for any of the food on the bulk, it is getting difficult to choke down the eggs especially?  I really miss the cereal, especially the Kashi brand.  Possibly protein bars like Detour?
> 
> * Any protein can be substituted for any protein.  If you want steak instead of eggs, go for it.  As far as cereal, you can replace the carbs with something like Fiber One Cereal or All Bran, I don't believe Kashi is all that great for you.  Protein bars are typically a no-no but once in a while I don't see anything wrong with them especially since your bulking*
> ...


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## Freeman (Jan 11, 2004)

Long time no chat Jodi!


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## pood (Jan 12, 2004)

i'm was 140 couple weeks ago, gained 5 lbs, but now 145 lbs,

im doing a regular bulk for whole winter and spring, trying to get to 160-165

if i follow the slow burners plan, will i need to tweak that diet when i start cutting? is that example plan for bulk or cutting?


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## Alaric (Feb 3, 2004)

Just a couple quick questions, why are we consuming so much carbs on training days as our last meal?  Secondly, would it be ok to squeeze in a workout between the first and second meal?

thanks in advance!


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## Larva (Feb 4, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> This program is for a hard gainer and on training days the purpose of the carb up is to replenish gylocgen.  If you would like, which for you Mark I think would be better, would be to just do the oats or sweet potato or brown rice AND protein.  I don't think you need the full carb up to bulk.  But, if progress is slow and you want more then slowly add in the carb up.



question2:
sure i don't see anything wrong with that


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## Alaric (Feb 7, 2004)

Thanks for the reply, I just wanted to clarify a couple things...

Brown rice, yams (sweet potatoe), and oatmeal....they're all interchangable?

Also, is flax oil and natural peanut butter interchangable too?


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## Jodi (Feb 7, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Alaric *_
> Thanks for the reply, I just wanted to clarify a couple things...
> 
> Brown rice, yams (sweet potatoe), and oatmeal....they're all interchangable?
> ...


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## Alaric (Feb 7, 2004)

Gotcha! Thanks for the fast reply Jodi!


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## Alaric (Feb 11, 2004)

Just another thing I wanted to add, I don't have time to consume chicken in the morning, so would it be ok to add more eggs, and egg whites?

I'm 5'10 165lbs now and bulking, taking in about 2800 cals a day.  I would change this to 3 whole eggs, 5 egg whites.


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## Jodi (Feb 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Alaric *_
> Just another thing I wanted to add, I don't have time to consume chicken in the morning, so would it be ok to add more eggs, and egg whites?
> 
> *That's fine *
> ...


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## rockcrest (Jun 3, 2004)

you can find some cool stuff using the search function


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## shawshank (May 24, 2005)

Hi, im very new to the forum. My stats in case anyone is wondering is im a male 5.8 feet and 140 pounds and im 20 years old. I workout as regularly as i can, but i will be stepping up my game for the next two months, since im out of college just now. 

Question for you guys though, is it possible to manipulate this type of diet for a vegetarian? i could even eat the eggs, but for religious reasons i couldnt eat any of the other meats. thanks for any info


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## sara (May 24, 2005)

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/vm7.htm

This should help you


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## pereari (Jul 23, 2005)

what are you supossed to eat during your ''cutting'' weeks?????????


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## Seanp156 (Oct 5, 2005)

This diet looks pretty good... I might give it a go in a week or so when I start Westside training.


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## juggernaut (Oct 9, 2005)

can I use a weight gainer for this or is it better to use clean food? Datsa lotta calories for a 200+ lb guy!!!


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## Bakerboy (Apr 21, 2006)

ow my colon hurts just looking at this diet.  Too much protein.

You don't need that much protien.


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## Seanp156 (Apr 21, 2006)

Bakerboy said:
			
		

> ow my colon hurts just looking at this diet.  Too much protein.
> 
> You don't need that much protien.


I sort of used this diet to bulk... I modified some things though... My totals were ~ 3979 cals 167g fat 340g carbs 313g protein... went from ~173lbs to 190 in about 12-14 weeks. I plan to do something similar when I reach my cutting goal.

However, toward the end I had to bump the cals up from 3900 to about 4200-4400 because I stopped gaining weight for a while.


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## Andy_Massaro (Jul 4, 2006)

alright well this is my first official bulk.. so it's going to take a while to get on schedule but after weighing 125- 128 lbs for the past 2 years i think its time to gain some weight..I'm actually looking forward to this bulk seeing as i eat most of the foods on the diet already..(except for oatmeal, I've tried numerous times but I just cant keep it down.. I always end up gagging it up)

so I have a few questions..

1)How would I figure out how much of the foods I need if this program was for a 180 lb male, when im only 130?
2)Is there anyway to make oatmeal taste better so I can keep it down?
3)What are appropriate supplements that I should be taking in on this diet?


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## juggernaut (Jul 4, 2006)

i THINK the best way to do this would be to do 1.5g of protein x per lb of bodyweight, for carbs-2g x per lb of bodyweight. This the baseline. The fats part-well, I think I need help on that.

Now add in 250-500 claories a day for a 1 lb gain each week. Obviously, you want that to be quality food, not shitfood, but dont automatically rule out the quality of *shit*food. Dont be afraid to thrown down some pancakes, or other high quality carb foods. These help gain weight.
I remember as a youngster, I'd down in one meal, 4 whole wheat peanut butter and  banana sandwiches with one quart of milk. I was a hardgainer at the time, and I went up in two years about 30-45 lbs of mixed weight. Obviously, there was some fat gain. But this is the way I did it and would think that there is some sort of science behind it...maybe....


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## juggernaut (Jul 4, 2006)

and btw-suck it up with the oatmeal. its one of the best goddamn things you can use to put weight on.

and change the avatar, you look like a little fucking punk.


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## juggernaut (Jul 4, 2006)

oh and before i forget-use compound exercises.


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## Andy_Massaro (Jul 4, 2006)

you really dont like me do you


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## juggernaut (Jul 4, 2006)

Andy_Massaro said:
			
		

> you really dont like me do you


Nawwww, I just like busting the newbs balls. But if you really need an answer to anything, I'm there. 

Just fucking with you.


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## Andy_Massaro (Jul 4, 2006)

haha ok thanks bro


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## juggernaut (Jul 4, 2006)

np


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## dakota00008 (Jan 19, 2011)

i just have a quick question is ot ok to mix HGH Creatine and Whey protein as a use as a daily bulking method? just woundering


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## AK74 (Sep 25, 2011)

Hi all new to this so forgive me this question ! In the menu at the beginning of this thread it gives the ammount of oats in cups ! How much is in a cup and how big is this cup ?


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## Night_Wolf (Sep 25, 2011)

AK74 said:


> Hi all new to this so forgive me this question ! In the menu at the beginning of this thread it gives the ammount of oats in cups ! How much is in a cup and how big is this cup ?



1 cup of oatmeal is 90g.


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## AK74 (Sep 25, 2011)

Thanks !


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