# Question about Fiber 1, carbs and cutting



## Skib (Oct 2, 2008)

I just started a calorie deficit by reducing the total number of carbs and fat i consume in a day in hopes of losing a bit of body fat... cereal is about the only thing i'm willing to eat in the morning when i get up before i head to work due to time constraints so i figured fiber 1 is probably my best choice... a small bowl of fiber 1 consisting of 1 cup of the cereal and 1 cup of skim milk adds up to 61g of carbs all together and a whopping 28g of fiber (190 cal, 13g of pro and 1g of fat)... is this meal suitable while on a cut? i realize i should probably add more protein to this meal but i usually have a shake within a couple hours of this meal...


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## Skib (Oct 2, 2008)

also, is skim milk ok to drink while on a cut? i LOVE my milk and am currently drinking 3 cups of skim milk a day... per cup it's 90 cal, 9g pro, 13g carb, 0g fat... i have 1 cup with my cereal and one with my pre and post work out meals... is this ok?


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## thorough (Oct 3, 2008)

horrible breakfast. no fat. not enough protien and lots of carbs and sugar in the milk and fiber one. basically the exact opposite of what you want to be eating on a cut. have some eggs and oatmeal and fish oil. if you dont have time to make eggs have some whey and nuts or something.

milk can be ok in moderation but the sugar adds up. use heavy cream with water for your shakes instead. i would read the stickies on this forum.


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## Built (Oct 3, 2008)

It'll work fine, as long as you can maintain a caloric deficit through the day. It wouldn't keep ME comfortable, but it may work just fine for YOU.


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## Ben dur (Oct 3, 2008)

i personally would base my carb intake around my workout

but as long as your consuming enough protein daily, and consuming less than maint calories, it will work


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## Skib (Oct 3, 2008)

thanks for your replies... i'm always open to new suggestions and ideas... i started my calorie deficit about a week ago and am just sort of fine tuning it as i go to see what foods at what times work best for me... i'm weighing in at around 190 right now and am sort of hoping to drop 10 pounds or so over the next 6-8 weeks... i have a fairly good build and am just looking to trim up around the waist line a bit... i've looked at some of the stickies on cutting and to be frank am just not willing to eat quite that strict... i take my training and dieting moderately seriously, but don't consider myself a body builder by any means and am not trying to compete or anything like that... i may see if there's something else i can replace my breakfast with and might also consider ditching the milk...

here is a list of the foods i typically enjoy eating... maybe you guys can give me some ideas on what the best time to eat them would be in order to see some results... i also just started taking hoodia for appetite control... it seems to be working so far... maybe not quite as well as i anticipated but then again it's only been less than a week since i started it...

here's my list:

fiber 1 
skim milk
whey protein powder
oats
natural PB
stone ground bread (apparently the lowest bread on the GI... i've been limiting this to 2 slices a day, but am willing to completely eliminate breads if need be)
TUNA with half and half mayo
celery
yogurt
eggs/egg whites
oatmeal
fish, chicken, beef, etc.
romaine lettuce with low cal dressing for salads
brocolli
asparagus
low fat cottage cheese

i usually make a protein shake consisting of a scoop of whey, 1/3 cup of oats and 1 tbsp of natural PB for my mid morning snack

any feedback will be much appreciated!


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## Built (Oct 3, 2008)

Any of these foods will "work", and the timing isn't as critical as you might have been lead to believe. You're going to have to either set a calorie level, OR eat exactly the same amounts of the same things every day so you can make changes as you stall out. 

The only timing that's really all that important from an ergogenic standpoint is periworkout nutrition - don't train hungry, and target your presumably limited carb intake around this window. 

Other than this, eat for satiety given you must eat less than you require in order to lose.


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## Skib (Oct 4, 2008)

Built said:


> The only timing that's really all that important from an ergogenic standpoint is periworkout nutrition - don't train hungry, and target your presumably limited carb intake around this window.



the key is to limit my carbs before and after training?


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## bigsahm21 (Oct 4, 2008)

No...when she says "target your presumably limited carb intake around this window," she's saying that on a cut, your carb intake will most likely be lower, and that you should focus on eating a significant portion of your daily carbs before and after your workout.


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## Ben dur (Oct 4, 2008)

Ben dur said:


> i personally would base my carb intake around my workout
> 
> but as long as your consuming enough protein daily, and consuming less than maint calories, it will work


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## Skib (Oct 4, 2008)

awesome, yes that's what I thought was ideal while cutting and is what i've been trying to do... do most people try to completely eliminate carbs with every other meal while on a cut? or just reduce them? i've been trying to eat no more than 20g or so at each meal minus my pre and post work out meals...

i've only been doing this for almost a week or so and haven't really fine tuned everything yet, but i'm already feeling leaner and weighing in lighter when i wake up in the morning... probably just water weight i'm losing at this point though, right?


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## Built (Oct 4, 2008)

It really just comes down to comfort, Skib. If you feel good on high carbs and low fat, then you better eat high carbs and low fat. Will you get ripped to shreds? Of course - IF you can maintain the deficit.

For me, I hardly eat any carbohydrate through the day other than what comes along from veggies and cottage cheese. 

If what you're doing represents a significant drop from your ordinary carb intake, yeah, you'll drop water as you run through glycogen stores. That's only about 5 or so pounds for most folks though, and it drops off pretty quick - usually within 3-5 days. Note that when you refeed, you'll see a jump on the scale as your muscle glycogen is replenished - but you'll LOOK tight as a drum because it's replenishing muscle size, not fat cells. 

Happy cutting!


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## Skib (Oct 4, 2008)

Built said:


> If what you're doing represents a significant drop from your ordinary carb intake, yeah, you'll drop water as you run through glycogen stores. That's only about 5 or so pounds for most folks though, and it drops off pretty quick - usually within 3-5 days.



that sounds about right : )

i'm definitely not set on eating high carb, low fat... in fact i'm still looking for ways to drop carbs... i stopped eating bread and instead have been putting tuna or egg whites on half a whole wheat pita... it's only 80cal and 15g carb... it's not that i need the carbs, it's just what else am i supposed to eat tuna on? i've tried romaine lettuce but just can't do it... i think i need to add more nuts to my diet... what are the best kind? almonds? also, is a little bit of cheese in trade for the carbs appropriate while cutting? like i've said i'm just kind of fine tuning as i go... i think low carb, high protein, moderate fat seems to be the preferred way to go when trying to drop some body fat... am i correct?


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## Built (Oct 5, 2008)

Try the tuna mixed with cottage cheese and avocado. Yes, I'm serious. Whole wheat pita IS bread. Same stuff. 

Low carb, high protein, moderate fat is how I do it, but again, only because it's the only way I can control my appetite. Word up, wheat makes a LOT of people hungry. For what little carb you eat, try a non-grain starch, like rice or potatoes. 

Nuts: any raw nut is fine. Roasting damages the PUFAs.


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## Skib (Oct 7, 2008)

Ok, so after doing some more reading I've decided to try and eliminate as many carbs as possible from my diet except for before and after I train and on refeed days... I'm still trying to work out a diet that works for me so any feedback is much appreciated...

Here's what I've got so far... keep in mind I'm 26 years old, 5'11, 185-190 lbs, not sure what my body fat percentage is but I'm a fairly solid guy just looking to drop about 10lbs of body fat to start... I definitely have some around the waist I can afford to lose...

Meal #1 (Breakfast) - 2 large eggs and 1/2 cup of egg whites
Approx. 200cal, 25g pro, 10g fat, 0g carb
Comments: I was thinking of adding an extra whole egg. I don't want to add many more whites as it starts to become too bulky and bland of a meal first thing in the AM. Thoughts?

Meal #2 (Mid-AM) - 1 Scoop of Whey with 1-2 Tbsp of Natural PB Mixed in
Approx. 200cal, 25g pro, 10g fat, 6g carb
Comments: The above numbers are with a single tbsp of PB. I'm wondering if it would be wise to add an extra tbsp in order to bring up the cals and fat slightly. Thoughts?

Meal #3 (Lunch) - Today I had Romaine Lettuce with 1 Chicken breast, 2 servings of low fat cheese and some low cal dressing. I'm not sure what the nutritional value was but the cheese contributed 180cal, 16g pro, 12g fat and 0g carb. This seemed like a decent meal to me while on a cut. Thoughts?

Other substitutes will include mainly a can of tuna on half a whole wheat pita. I know, I know, no bread, but honestly it's only 80cal and 15g carb. Will this truly do any damage on a cut? I honestly don't know what else to eat my tuna on? Also, I always bring celery to chew on after I eat tuna.

Meal #4 (Pre-work out) - This meal will vary. I feel like I get decent energy from beans so I was thinking of making a bunch of low GI chili my mom has a recipe for. I'm not sure of the nutritional value, but my mom got the recipe from the GI diet cook book so how bad can it be?

Meal #5 (Post work out/Dinner) - This meal will also vary between fish, chicken and steak with sides of whole wheat rice or half a sweet potato and broccoli or asparagus. Days I don't train I'll ditch the rice and potato and just eat meat and veggies. Thoughts?

Meal #6 (Before bed) - ALWAYS ALWAYS 1 cup of fat free cottage cheese. I'll admit I've only been eating this before bed lately and it doesn't seem like enough but I'm afraid to eat any more than that. Maybe I should add a tbsp of natural PB for some fats? the cottage cheese by itself is only 180cal, 28g pro, 8g carb and 0g fat

Please comment and give me some feedback and advice... I'd really appreciate it! I want to do this right this time!

Also, it's worth mentioning that I work shift work at my hospital therefore I won't always be eating these foods in this order. For example, days where I train before work I'll eat meal #1 with a bowl of oatmeal, etc. My goal is to just always try to consume my carbs around training and limit them everywhere else. I also have to admit that I'm a little worried about starvation mode. I'm really keen on seeing results which sometimes causes me to eat less than I probably should be eating. Any advice?


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## Built (Oct 7, 2008)

Skib said:


> Ok, so after doing some more reading I've decided to try and eliminate as many carbs as possible from my diet except for before and after I train and on refeed days... I'm still trying to work out a diet that works for me so any feedback is much appreciated...
> 
> Here's what I've got so far... keep in mind I'm 26 years old, 5'11, 185-190 lbs, not sure what my body fat percentage is but I'm a fairly solid guy just looking to drop about 10lbs of body fat to start... I definitely have some around the waist I can afford to lose...
> 
> ...


I'd be chewing my arm off. Try three eggs and a whole cup of whites, some veggies with a little butter or olive oil and a few fish oil caps.

Or my breakfast: cottage cheese, water-packed tuna and half an avocado. You'll be full until lunch.


> Meal #2 (Mid-AM) - 1 Scoop of Whey with 1-2 Tbsp of Natural PB Mixed in
> Approx. 200cal, 25g pro, 10g fat, 6g carb
> Comments: The above numbers are with a single tbsp of PB. I'm wondering if it would be wise to add an extra tbsp in order to bring up the cals and fat slightly. Thoughts?


You seem hooked on the "200-calorie meal". If you find whey with PB satisfying, you're golden. If not, perhaps choose a solid food?



> Meal #3 (Lunch) - Today I had Romaine Lettuce with 1 Chicken breast, 2 servings of low fat cheese and some low cal dressing



Try tossing in half an avocado or some raw nuts. Olive oil dressing. 


> . I'm not sure what the nutritional value was but the cheese contributed 180cal, 16g pro, 12g fat and 0g carb. This seemed like a decent meal to me while on a cut. Thoughts?
> 
> Other substitutes will include mainly a can of tuna on half a whole wheat pita. I know, I know, no bread, but honestly it's only 80cal and 15g carb. Will this truly do any damage on a cut?
> 
> ...



What macros are you planning to run overall? What is maintenance for you?


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## Skib (Oct 8, 2008)

200 cal does seem low and i'm not intentionally trying to eat that little but i honestly don't need much more than that first meal to keep me going for a couple hours in the AM... i'll probably add another egg though... i don't think i've ever tried avocado? maybe i'll pick some up and see if i like... 3 eggs and a whole cup of egg whites is far too much food for me first thing in the AM... i'd have a hard time eating that everyday for any extended period of time...

Again, my mid-AM protein shakes have always been good at keeping me tied over until lunch in a couple of hours... i'm thinking an extra tbsp of PB will be better though...

I can't give you an exact number for my maintenance calories but it's significantly higher than what I've been eating... I normally eat a lot more than what I've been eating lately and never really go above 195... not to mention I normally eat much more carbs... I actually don't think I ate enough yesterday during the day though because an hour or so after my bedtime meal I was still starving and ended up having a chicken breast with some cheese and celery...

I know there's a better way of doing this but to be honest I'm not trying to compete or anything, I just want to lose a bit of BF and I'm really not sure if I can be bothered to count every single calorie I eat everyday. I just want to get a general idea of what I need to eat to lose body fat and just stick as closely as possible to that diet.

Also, problem is if I don't do this while eating foods I actually enjoy it'll be hard to maintain a diet long enough to reach my goals... I HAVE to work in foods that I'm going to want to eat day in day out...


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## Built (Oct 8, 2008)

What do your daily calories, grams protein, carb and fat work out to on your proposed diet?


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## Merkaba (Oct 8, 2008)

lol...built said "word up"

peace out yo!


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## Skib (Oct 8, 2008)

Built said:


> What do your daily calories, grams protein, carb and fat work out to on your proposed diet?



well i'm trying to aim for 30g of protien per meal for 6 meals a day which will give me roughly 180g of protein a day and considering i weigh about 185-190 that works out to be 1g per lb per day which i believe will suffice... 180g of pro x 4cal per g = 720cal from pro per day...

next up is fat... how much should i be looking to consume per meal providing i'm trying to avoid carbs? 15g? if we say 15g and use the above calculation then that leaves me with around 810cal from fats per day...

720cal+810cal = 1530cal not counting the cals from carbs i'll consume before and after my work outs...

i read somewhere that to determine an estimate of how many cals you should consume if you're trying to cut multiply 10-13 by your body weight... 10 times 185-190 is 1850-1900cal a day... so all in all i think i'm in the ballpark, no?


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## Built (Oct 8, 2008)

Skib said:


> well i'm trying to aim for 30g of protien per meal for 6 meals a day which will give me roughly 180g of protein a day and considering i weigh about 185-190 that works out to be 1g per lb per day which i believe will suffice... 180g of pro x 4cal per g = 720cal from pro per day...
> 
> next up is fat... how much should i be looking to consume per meal providing i'm trying to avoid carbs? 15g? if we say 15g and use the above calculation then that leaves me with around 810cal from fats per day...
> 
> ...



I track my maintenance and reduce by 20%, but that requires tracking. 

Is there some reason why you're focussing on 6 meals a day - or do you find this more comfortable than eating say 4-5 somewhat larger meals? Either will work, as long as you're comfortable. 

Your calories appear rather low. I cut (slowly, but I cut) on 1850-1900, and I'm a middle-aged woman on HRT who weighs a buck forty soaking wet. Maybe creep the cals up a bit - or at least do a refeed once a week. 

Personally, I like my protein high - comfortable for me is about 220g per day and you have a LOT more LBM than my measly 114 or so lbs of it. I don't know what your bodyfat is, but assuming at least 80% of your weight is lean mass you've got at least 150 lbs. How about bumping the protein up to 240g - so about 40g per meal? Keep fats no lower than 75g for the day (at least 10g from fish oil), getting about 25g from each of poly, mono and saturates. Feel free to bump the monos higher than this, for satiety. 

If you're hell-bent on the "six meals" thing, how about this:

*Training days:*
"4 not near workout-window" meals: 40g protein, 14g fat, 12g carb; 334 calories.
2 pre/post workout meals: 40g protein, 7g fat, 56g carb; 447 calories.
Whole day: 240g protein, 70g fat, 160g carb; 2230 calories.

*Rest/cardio-only days:*
All 6 meals: 40g protein, 14g fat, 12g carb; 334 calories.
Whole day: 240g protein, 84g fat, 72g carb; 2004 calories.


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## Skib (Oct 8, 2008)

Built said:


> I track my maintenance and reduce by 20%, but that requires tracking.
> 
> Is there some reason why you're focussing on 6 meals a day - or do you find this more comfortable than eating say 4-5 somewhat larger meals? Either will work, as long as you're comfortable.
> 
> ...



awesome built, thanks a lot for that, it's just what i needed and i really appreciate it... i'm not really set on the 6 meal thing but i find it works well for my schedule... plus i like to eat every 3-4 hours... i can probably do 40g of protein per meal or close to it... my biggest concern with upping my protein is if i take in too much i start to get really bad gas... to the point where it's just uncomfortable... and i certainly intend on doing a refeed once a week... if i'm doing a refeed every 5 days or so, should i still keep my daily carbs the way you outlined them? anyways, thanks for that little plan... i'll try and start implementing it next week after my thanksgiving meals


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## Skib (Oct 8, 2008)

also, the whole fish oil thing is pretty new to me... what am i looking for? how much do i need to take? is this stuff expensive?


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## Skib (Oct 8, 2008)

Built said:


> Try white rice for post workout. Have the veggies with some more protein later. Have a little fat with this meal.



sorry i didn't notice this earlier... why the white rice? and why the veggies later?


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## Built (Oct 8, 2008)

Skib said:


> also, the whole fish oil thing is pretty new to me... what am i looking for? how much do i need to take? is this stuff expensive?


10g a day, I buy whatever's on sale as long as it's wild. Costco has wild salmon and fish oil for pretty cheap. 



Skib said:


> sorry i didn't notice this earlier... why the white rice? and why the veggies later?



White rice has less fibre to slow it down. The first meal post workout you might as well keep it low fat, just protein and some sort of starch for the insulin response. You can do brown if you prefer it, it won't make much difference. I've been doing boiled potatoes lately myself. Post workout, my understanding is that you want the insulin because it blunts cortisol and helps you reglycogenate and initiate muscle-repair. 

Vinegar and creatine here will enhance the process:
Creatine supplementation increases glycogen storag...[Clin Sci (Lond). 2004] - PubMed Result - creatine

https://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/showthread.php?threadid=881&perpage=15&pagenumber=1 - vinegar

Have the veggies with a little fat later and some more protein. Keep you full a little longer.


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## Skib (Oct 24, 2008)

*update* 

the cut is going very well! i've been on a caloric deficit for around 2 or 3 weeks now and when i stepped on the scale this morning i weighed 180... i was in between 185 and 190 when i started... if i had to guess i'd say i'm roughly dropping a couple pounds a week at this rate... i'm only eating carbs around my work out and i'm still pushing the same weight as when i started so i'm guessing i've lost minimal muscle mass... i look and feel more ripped that's for sure... i've been incorporating a refeed every few days but man it's hard to eat carbs... i'm scared to! haha ... going to keep this up for probably another 3 weeks or so and see what happens... i've still got some stubborn fat around the midsection that's going to take some work... if my results slow down i might throw in an EC stack for 3-6 weeks and try adding some cardio... after that it's going to be maintainence!

thanks again for all the feedback... i'm feeling great!


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## Built (Oct 24, 2008)

What wonderful news to read first thing on a Friday morning - congratulations! Re cardio - read my cardio article; try some HIIT.


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## Merkaba (Oct 24, 2008)

Good job man!  

I'm on a bulk....

(giggles)


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## Skib (Oct 24, 2008)

i actually weighed in at about 181 this morn... just got home from the gym and stepped on the scale for the hell of it and weighed in at 184... i find my weight fluctuates about 3 lbs or so from first thing in the AM, empty stomach, after a poop, etc. to in the evening after eating all day and training... i tend to go by the morning number


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## QuestionGuy (Oct 24, 2008)

Skib said:


> I just started a calorie deficit by reducing the total number of carbs and fat i consume in a day in hopes of losing a bit of body fat... cereal is about the only thing i'm willing to eat in the morning when i get up before i head to work due to time constraints so i figured fiber 1 is probably my best choice... a small bowl of fiber 1 consisting of 1 cup of the cereal and 1 cup of skim milk adds up to 61g of carbs all together and a whopping 28g of fiber (190 cal, 13g of pro and 1g of fat)... is this meal suitable while on a cut? i realize i should probably add more protein to this meal but i usually have a shake within a couple hours of this meal...



hahahah...."a whoping 28g fiber".....Do you ever randomly shit your pants throut the day...


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## Ben dur (Oct 24, 2008)

yeah...
28 g in one meal is pretty ridiculous

but
on a low carb cut, you might have trouble getting enough fiber otherwise


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## Skib (Oct 25, 2008)

QuestionGuy said:


> hahahah...."a whoping 28g fiber".....Do you ever randomly shit your pants throut the day...



LMAO! haha that made my morning... i'm off the fiber 1 right now but will probably continue once on a maintenance diet...


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## Skib (Oct 25, 2008)

well i woke up this morn and weighed in at 185... i don't understand? maybe my scale wasn't calibrated properly yesterday? i'm not overly frustrated cause i know i look and feel better but what the hell? i think i might need to consider doing a refeed more properly... because i'm eating well below my maintenance calories and i couldn't imagine eating any less... i'll try to be patient but if i don't see more results in the next 2 weeks i'm going to have to seriously tweak something...


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## Ben dur (Oct 25, 2008)

i wouldnt stress the scale alot

your trying to loose bodyfat
not "weight"

my weight has fluctuated as much ad 6-7 pounds in just a few day
many things play a part in this

take 10 days of weights
and compare them to a different 10 days of weights

all done on the same scale

then your more likely comparing average weight

btw
even 5 pounds of pure fat is a SIGNIFICANT change in 3 weeks
thats close to 2-3% bf reduction


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## Ben dur (Oct 25, 2008)

furthermore
if you compare your previous LOW
to your current HIGH
weights

your likely to be disappointed


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## Skib (Oct 26, 2008)

you make some good points there Ben...

*continues to eat his bowl of maple flavored mini wheats*

love these "refeed" days haha


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## Skib (Nov 30, 2008)

Skib said:


> i'm weighing in at around 190 right now and am sort of hoping to drop 10 pounds or so over the next 6-8 weeks...



it's funny reading through this thread now... I've come a long way and have learned a lot since I started this thread...

I weighed in at 175 pre refeed last night : )

Haven't really lost any strength in the gym, I look noticeably better and although I haven't taken any measurements along the way, I feel and look like I've retained most of my muscle mass : )

not to mention I've been getting some pretty positive comments from friends, family and co-workers...


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## Ben dur (Nov 30, 2008)

nice to hear from you again
and im glad to see your work is paying off!


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