# Test E and Dbol cycle



## JCBourne (May 26, 2010)

Well I'm finally ready to do my first cycle of AAS. I've done a few PH cycles in the past.

Stats :

202 pounds
6 foot
Bf% unknown but at 217 I was 17%
23 yrs old
Been training hard for 3 years, working out since I was 16.

Plan on doing :

d-bol 30mg 1-4 weeks
test e 500mg 1-15 weeks

Starting at 17 weeks :
novla 40/20/20/20 
Clomid 50/25/25/25

Proper supps during cycle and PCT will be included.

I want to run T3 to keep fat min. but not sure how much to run (and how many times a week)

Also plan to run a AI (Arimidex) E3D 2-3 weeks into the cycle, again not sure on how much I should take. (.5mL may be best for this)

Going to be eating roughly 3500 calories, trying to a 40/40/20 (40% protein, 40% carbs, 20% fat) Last cycle of PH I gained too much fat. I'm still trying to get a diet in check for this cycle.

Hoping I can get to 215 with little to no BF gained after PCT.


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## MDR (May 27, 2010)

First cycle-might start with 12 weeks of Test E.  I like as small a dose of arimidex as is functional and does the job.  Gaining a bit of body fat is not a big deal, you can always cut it off after.  You want to get the most you can out of your cycle.  Never run T3, so I can't comment.


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## Tyler3295 (May 27, 2010)

GymRat707 said:


> Well I'm finally ready to do my first cycle of AAS. I've done a few PH cycles in the past. ...



Good job on getting ready to switch over to AAS! 



GymRat707 said:


> ...
> 
> d-bol 30mg 1-4 weeks
> test e 500mg 1-15 weeks
> ...



Cycle looks pretty good. Most people will say drop the dbol for your first cycle. Like above 12 weeks might be better, but personally I like 15-16 week cycles. I like the PCT.



GymRat707 said:


> ... I want to run T3 to keep fat min. but not sure how much to run (and how many times a week)
> 
> Also plan to run a AI (Arimidex) E3D 2-3 weeks into the cycle, again not sure on how much I should take. (.5mL may be best for this) ...



I run arimidex at .25-.5mg EOD-E3D and it is usually good to go. Not necessarily .5ml because it depends on the dosage. As far as T3, I usually taper up and down. I start at .25mcg/day. After 4 days I up it to .5mcg. 4 more days I up it to .75mcg. Sometimes I up it to 1mcg, sometimes I don't. If I don't I will run it at .75mcg for about 8 days then I taper down in the same pattern.



GymRat707 said:


> ... Going to be eating roughly 3500 calories, trying to a 40/40/20 (40% protein, 40% carbs, 20% fat) Last cycle of PH I gained too much fat. I'm still trying to get a diet in check for this cycle.
> 
> Hoping I can get to 215 with little to no BF gained after PCT.



Only 3500 calories? What are you maintenance calories?

_***If you are still trying to get your diet in check don't cycle yet. Never jump on a cycle until your diet is already in check.._


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## JCBourne (May 27, 2010)

After a lot of researching I've decided on the 15 weeks of test and 4 weeks of dbol, I feel I will be fine with this.

@Tyler, my diet isn't dialed in yet for this cycle and I don't plan on running this until Aug to give me a ton of time to switch my diet around. My last cycle of x-tren and SD I was eating roughly 4200 calories a day and gained way too much fat for my liking. That's why I'm aiming for 3500 calories, now depending on weight gains and fat gains will depend on lower/raising calories. However, I'm looking for a good diet, I think my last diet wasn't as great as it could of been and I want to make sure I have EVERYTHING correct before I cycle, again, won't be until late Aug early Sept.

I'd rather gain less then gain 30 pounds and a ton of fat, did that on my last cycle and now i'm basically the same size I was before the x-tren/sd because of the fat gain. However I did a cycle of x-tren and epi and gained 17 pounds, little fat and kept all of it in PCT. I'm hoping I have similiar results with this cycle.

EDIT :

Just read about adding HCG which would be 1000iu/week, is this correct? I heard running the HCG with this kind of cycle can help a lot.


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## Roaddkingg (May 27, 2010)

*Good Job*

Looks like you have thought this through pretty good and I appreciate the fact that you say you are going to get your diet in check first before starting. A few things I may critique for you is start you'r arimadex as soon as you start your cycle. Reason being is d-bol aromatizes real easy and fast. I suggest pharm grade arimadex and you may want to experiment a bit and see what works well for you. I use .5mgs EOD. Also I didnt hear you mention HCG usage. I feel it's better to use it during your cycle as opposed to running it after cycle before PCT when esters are clearing. Your choices of keeping the cycle simple with a front kicker and basic test is wise. On 500mgs per you should get real good results. Read up on nolvadex a bit more also. I read a article that said anything more than 20 mgs doesnt have any additional benefit. Your PCT starts it at 40 mgs thats not a biggie, I'm just saying. Good luck with getting your diet dialed in and keep us posted on your cycle when it gets going.


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## bigrene (May 27, 2010)

Keep your calories high , remember you were on prohormones before therefore not really doing anything with all those calories.Now  your body will be doing alot more building with those calories so if anything if you still see yourself gain bodyfat after a few weeks then taper back cause you can always trim up the fat gain but you cant make up the muscle you might not gain by doing this.Steroids are like bricklayers and food are your bricks if you dont have the bricks the bricklayers stand there and do nothing same principal.BUILD THE HOUSE!Good luck.


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## JCBourne (May 27, 2010)

@ Roadking, I plan to use liquid arimadex, can't decide exact dose because I don't want to limit my gains from the AI. But yes, I do know that dbol holds a lot of water weight thus bloating me out, I do not want this which of course is why im going to run the AI (arimadex)

@ bigrene, good point man. Maybe i'll aim for the 4200 calories again, only problem is @ 4200 calories I don't know what I can all eat to keep my diet "clean" I want to use my protein shake that only has 120 cals, 23g protein and 5g carbs. Last time I used a protein that had 330 cals, 23g protein and just about as much carbs, I think it is partly what made me fat.


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## theCaptn' (May 27, 2010)

If you're bulking adding in simple things like shots of olive oil can bump up your cals . . better to over-eat that under-eat IMO . . you can easily cut the fat later with cardio etc


and pct, drop the nolva. keep it on hand for gyno issues.
Bump your clomid up to 100mg for 4 days, then 50mg ED for the remainder

consider running HcG on cycle, say 500iu every week from week 2, stopping just before pct


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## JCBourne (May 27, 2010)

TheCapt'n said:


> If you're bulking adding in simple things like shots of olive oil can bump up your cals  . . better to over-eat that under-eat IMO . . you can easily cut the fat later with cardio etc



Very true. However, the higher calories I go, the harder it is to keep a clean diet aka, not eating fast food to get those calories. 

I'm pretty confident in the cycle as i've done the research, but even with a diet research i'm not very confident in it. I have a guy helping me (I think) so hopefully it'll work out. 

I was 220 @ 17% BF and I was not happy, I looked fat in the face, my waist was almost a 38 and even though I looked big, I also looked fat.

I'd be happy with 215 @ 10-12% BF after PCT, I'm currently 200, will most likely be more like 195 when i'm done cutting (want my waist down another inch or 1.25 inch) I've lost 1.25" in the waist already but sadly I also lost some muscle (never cut before so I screwed it up at first)


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## Tyler3295 (May 27, 2010)

Yep. 500iu/wk will do. Divided into 2 doses of course.


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## theCaptn' (May 27, 2010)

you're picking the wrong compounds then, dbol is wet as fuck - it's not a prettyboy cycle you'll be running, you gonna blow up.

and resorting to fast food is a copout. Cal high yes but nutrient poor - your only gains will be on your ass. Olive oil, peanut butter, rump steak, chicken thighs, sweet potato, pastas  . . these are mass builders . .  if you cant work this part out then you'll just end up wasting your time chief.


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## JCBourne (May 27, 2010)

TheCapt'n said:


> you're picking the wrong compounds then, dbol is wet as fuck - it's not a prettyboy cycle you'll be running, you gonna blow up.
> 
> and resorting to fast food is a copout. Cal high yes but nutrient poor - your only gains will be on your ass. Olive oil, peanut butter, rump steak, chicken thighs, sweet potato, pastas  . . these are mass builders . .  if you cant work this part out then you'll just end up wasting your time chief.



Oh I know i'm going to blow up don't worry. I just need to get my diet in check so when I blow up, I can min. the fat gain. Also why i'm cutting down to roughly 9-10% BF so when I do blow up I have room for fat gain.


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## Mr.BTB (May 28, 2010)

Testosterone and SD is meant to be a good stack, SD being very dry gains. Know a guy who used 3 weeks of SD to kick off a 400mg testosterone cycle, gained 17lbs in the first 3 weeks, mind you he is a freak at gaining muscle.


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## VictorZ06 (May 28, 2010)

bigrene said:


> Keep your calories high , remember you were on prohormones before therefore not really doing anything with all those calories.Now  your body will be doing alot more building with those calories so if anything if you still see yourself gain bodyfat after a few weeks then taper back cause you can always trim up the fat gain but you cant make up the muscle you might not gain by doing this.Steroids are like bricklayers and food are your bricks if you dont have the bricks the bricklayers stand there and do nothing same principal.BUILD THE HOUSE!Good luck.



I love the analogy bro! 


/V


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## MDR (May 28, 2010)

BUILD THE HOUSE!  Words to live by!


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## Bundy09 (May 28, 2010)

You can eat those calories clean if u try, look up some diet examples. ur protein intake should be around 40g per meal and if u equal that with cabs, throw in a handfull of almonds here and there or tablespoon of peanut butter for fats and u got a diet. with ur protein supplement u'll need to have 2 serves instead of the 1 due to it being fairly low. u'll find that its always easier to drink the protein than always eat it, but its always better to eat the calories IMO.


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## JCBourne (May 30, 2010)

Well besides my diet, people seem to like the cycle?

I'm going to get some HCG and run it 200iu, but how many times a week?

Also, can I post pictures of my stuff so the vets can confirm its legit?


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## Tyler3295 (May 31, 2010)

I usually run 200-250iu 2x/wk on cycle.


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## JCBourne (May 31, 2010)

Could I shoot the test and hcg at the same time?


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## Tyler3295 (May 31, 2010)

At the same time, yes. IM with the test and sub-q with the HCG.


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## JCBourne (May 31, 2010)

Tyler3295 said:


> At the same time, yes. IM with the test and sub-q with the HCG.



I don't get that, can you explain?


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## Tyler3295 (May 31, 2010)

GymRat707 said:


> I don't get that, can you explain?



I meant that there are days when my HCG and my AAS pins fall on the same day. I will pin the AAS intra-muscular (IM), and then I will pin the HCG subcutaneous (sub-q).

Your test is oil-based and your HCG is water-based so mixing in the same syringe should not be done.


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## theCaptn' (May 31, 2010)

sub-q = into stomach fat, say 1/4 inch inj with a slin pin


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## JCBourne (May 31, 2010)

TheCapt'n said:


> sub-q = into stomach fat, say 1/4 inch inj with a slin pin



Gotcha, so I pin into the stomach with the HCG? 23g work? Where exactly in the stomach do you pin?


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## Tyler3295 (May 31, 2010)

GymRat707 said:


> Gotcha, so I pin into the stomach with the HCG? 23g work? Where exactly in the stomach do you pin?



A 23g for sub-q? Sounds painful. Slin pin!

I am pinning my HCG with a 30x0.5g right now. From what I can tell, most use 29-31g.


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## theCaptn' (May 31, 2010)

what he says. Youtube for SUb-Q injections


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## JCBourne (May 31, 2010)

Thanks. Can't wait to start this cycle.


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## JCBourne (May 31, 2010)

Are insulin syringes the best to use for the HCG and then just throw them away after 1 use?

Also, whats the best way to break the amp? I want to make sure I don't get glass, and if I do, then what? (assuming just buy a amp opener)


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## theCaptn' (May 31, 2010)

throw them away? no! share them with your junkie mates! 

. . and here's a thought, why not do some research rather than expected to be spoonfed information?


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## nd2bhge (Jun 1, 2010)

hey rat you could change the d-bol to T-bol and you wont get as much bloat and still get decent strength gains. get the hcg as mentioned,and good luck bro!


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## Supermans Daddy (Jun 1, 2010)

GymRat707 said:


> Are insulin syringes the best to use for the HCG and then just throw them away after 1 use?
> 
> Also, whats the best way to break the amp? I want to make sure I don't get glass, and if I do, then what? (assuming just buy a amp opener)



PLEASE throw them away after 1 use. You're scare'n me Homey ! Be careful and if you're not sure, DON"T DO IT !

Be smart, be Safe, Be blessed

Peace and Love


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## Tyler3295 (Jun 1, 2010)

GymRat707 said:


> Are insulin syringes the best to use for the HCG and then just throw them away after 1 use?
> 
> Also, whats the best way to break the amp? I want to make sure I don't get glass, and if I do, then what? (assuming just buy a amp opener)



Lol, throw away EVERYTHING after you use it when it comes to pinning. Even your drawing needle, syringes, and vial you use to mix your HCG. (<--I mention these because I actually know a couple people who re-use these..)

If I were you I would order some bacteriostatic water. You can get a 30ml bottle of bac water for like $3-4. Mix your HCG with that. It'll be better, you'll have more than enough, _and_ you don't have to worry about opening those damn amps.


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## JCBourne (Jun 7, 2010)

As far as a second cycle, would I benefit from the same exact thing or maybe 750mg of test? I'm wondering cause I want to order now and have it all ready. (I can get a good deal)


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## unclem (Jun 7, 2010)

Tyler3295 said:


> Lol, throw away EVERYTHING after you use it when it comes to pinning. Even your drawing needle, syringes, and vial you use to mix your HCG. (<--I mention these because I actually know a couple people who re-use these..)
> 
> If I were you I would order some bacteriostatic water. You can get a 30ml bottle of bac water for like $3-4. Mix your HCG with that. It'll be better, you'll have more than enough, _and_ you don't have to worry about opening those damn amps.


 
i agree with this. i use hcg 250ius 2xs a wk all  cycle. but get some bac. h2o and the fda is cracking down on companies who sell bac h2o so a heads up. good luck. imo


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## Tyler3295 (Jun 8, 2010)

GymRat707 said:


> As far as a second cycle, would I benefit from the same exact thing or maybe 750mg of test? I'm wondering cause I want to order now and have it all ready. (I can get a good deal)



I wouldn't up your test that much yet.

Most people add deca their second cycle.

That makes me curious about something though. Is there anyone here who ran a first AND a second cycle of 500mg test/wk and had great gains with both cycles?


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## JCBourne (Jun 8, 2010)

unclem said:


> i agree with this. i use hcg 250ius 2xs a wk all  cycle. but get some bac. h2o and the fda is cracking down on companies who sell bac h2o so a heads up. good luck. imo



My source who sells the hcg, sells the powder and water together.


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## Tyler3295 (Jun 8, 2010)

GymRat707 said:


> My source who sells the hcg, sells the powder and water together.





Lmao, yes. 99% of sources who offer HCG sell it with the "powder and water together".


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## JCBourne (Jun 8, 2010)

Tyler3295 said:


> Lmao, yes. 99% of sources who offer HCG sell it with the "powder and water together".


 
Hey   


Clem said I should get the water, but it'll be sent with it so no reason for it. Unless i'm missing something?


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## Tyler3295 (Jun 8, 2010)

GymRat707 said:


> Hey
> 
> 
> Clem said I should get the water, but it'll be sent with it so no reason for it. Unless i'm missing something?



"the water"? What kind of water? Be more specific. Sterile water? ..or bacteriostatic water? 




STERILE water is sent with the HCG. I have never seen bac water sent with HCG. While sterile water WILL suffice, bac water is much much better to mix your HCG with. Get some bac water. It's super cheap. Like $3-4 for 30ml.


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## jmorrison (Jun 8, 2010)

Tyler3295 said:


> That makes me curious about something though. Is there anyone here who ran a first AND a second cycle of 500mg test/wk and had great gains with both cycles?




Bump.  I already have 2 cycles at the house due to a buddy hooking me up, and I wonder if the test/dbol will be effective again for my second cycle, or if I will need to add compounds.


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## Supermans Daddy (Jun 8, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> Bump.  I already have 2 cycles at the house due to a buddy hooking me up, and I wonder if the test/dbol will be effective again for my second cycle, or if I will need to add compounds.



Hey JM, Really IMHO I don't see how it wouldn't work unless you don't do your PCT, and Equal Evil ( equal time off cycle) and of course if you do much lower doseages the second time, then any of those may be reason not to be as effective I'd think.  Now that I think bout it ,I've repeated the exact same protocol a bunch of times and always got results . I'd go out on a limb and say yes it should be effective at least a few times before you may have to adjust the doseages.

Peace and Love


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## jmorrison (Jun 8, 2010)

Excellent.  Exactly what I was hoping to hear.  Thanks.


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## JCBourne (Jul 6, 2010)

Would 10 weeks of hcg @ 200ui x2 a week be enough? I don't want to open up another 2000ui and waste some of it, unless I need to.

OR

I could do 6000ui split into 250ui 2 times a week, would be 12 weeks of hcg, which would mean i'd stop roughly a week before the last injection.

OR

6000ui split into 200ui 2 times a week, meaning I'd run it for 15 weeks meaning it would end right at the start of PCT.

Would clen + t3 be fine for 5 weeks? (3 on cycle, 2 weeks between last  injection and PCT) I read clen kind of counters the effects t3 has on  muscle loss, which makes it a good stack.


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## Roaddkingg (Jul 7, 2010)

*Hcg*

I'd go with the option of 25oiu's 2x wkly. If you have to stop it one week before your last pin I dont think that will be that big of a deal. I've never done the liquid adex so I cant comment on that but I guess some guys have good luck with it. Personally I prefer pharm grade ai's. You have been thinking this out real well and I commend you on that. Start your ai right away though not two or three weeks in because as I mentioned the d-bol aromatizes fast.


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## JCBourne (Jul 7, 2010)

Right, adex will be started on day one at .25 e2d, and changing dosing as needed. Letro will be on hand in case some huge gyno problems, which I don't think will happen.. Better safe then sorry.

I will be doing the 250ui x 2 a week. Just need to figure out how much BA water I need to make 2000ui into 250ui shots.

I'm getting pretty excited about this cycle, i'm about a month out.


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## unclem (Jul 8, 2010)

GymRat707 said:


> My source who sells the hcg, sells the powder and water together.


 
i know that my source does also, but if you want to add to it for cycles and want to use only 500ius a wk say, thats why u can turn 5,000ius into 5ccs of 1,000ius in a sterile 10cc vial was what i was getting at. oh with your post count i thought you were being funny, my fault. it depends on your amount you have in your vial i use 20 ml vials filled so there good for i think 60 days refridgerated or 90 days . someone chime in.


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## JCBourne (Jul 8, 2010)

I got the amount figured out for the hcg, 6000ui/12mL of water = 250ui shot or .5 cc.

I'm ready to kick this cycles ass. Only about a month.


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## Roaddkingg (Jul 9, 2010)

*Hcg*

When I mix up my HCG I use as little bac water as I can and still get the right doses figured out. That way you can do the 10 0r 25 mark on a slim pin instead of pinning so much water. I couldnt imagine putting a half or full cc in my stomach. Mine are so tiny I just pinch stick it in and push and it only takes a second, real easy. I switch sides about a inch or two from the navel. I think you could do HCG just about anywhere but the stomach fat is the easiest.


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## JCBourne (Jul 9, 2010)

Roaddkingg said:


> When I mix up my HCG I use as little bac water as I can and still get the right doses figured out. That way you can do the 10 0r 25 mark on a slim pin instead of pinning so much water. I couldnt imagine putting a half or full cc in my stomach. Mine are so tiny I just pinch stick it in and push and it only takes a second, real easy. I switch sides about a inch or two from the navel. I think you could do HCG just about anywhere but the stomach fat is the easiest.



So how much water do you mix in to make a 250ui shot? (Assuming you were using 6000ui like me)


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## Roaddkingg (Jul 10, 2010)

*Hcg*

Hey Gym Rat. First off I have never seen 6000iu' HCG. I have always gotten 2000, 5000 or 10,ooo. the 2000iu's are the most popular I believe because you can mix it up and then refrigerate and it's good for 60 days. I think longer but potency may go down just a bit. Anyway for example on my 2000iu's hucog(HCG) it came pre-mixed with 1cc water already in it. Rather than to use such a microscopic amount I added 1ml more of bac water to it. To be honest every time I do this I have to re-figure but without my notes on hand I believe it's a simple division problem. Theres 100 units in each cc on a slim pin. So you have 200 units total of mixed HCG after you added the 1cc of bac water to the 1cc of water that was there. So it would be 2000 divided by 250iu's and it would be 8 pins at 250iu's per pin. So it would be the 25 mark on a slim pin. Hopefully tyler and some of the boys will jump in and double check my math but I think thats what I did last time. So that should give you one months worth and you mix more as you go to always have fresh stuff.


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## JCBourne (Jul 10, 2010)

The 6000ui is (3) 2000ui. Sorry should have noted that. Yeah I have the math for 250ui with 12mL of water, but a smaller shot would be better, just want some input on it.


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## sullivanjef (Jul 11, 2010)

nd2bhge said:


> hey rat you could change the d-bol to T-bol and you wont get as much bloat and still get decent strength gains. get the hcg as mentioned,and good luck bro!




hey im looking to do a similar cycle to that of gymrat's, i was going to do d-bol to jump start my cycle as well, and wouldn't mind avoiding the bloat. what is T-bol, trenbolon?


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## JCBourne (Jul 11, 2010)

sullivanjef said:


> hey im looking to do a similar cycle to that of gymrat's, i was going to do d-bol to jump start my cycle as well, and wouldn't mind avoiding the bloat. what is T-bol, trenbolon?



No, it's not trenbolon. It's turinabol.


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## JCBourne (Jul 11, 2010)

nd2bhge said:


> hey rat you could change the d-bol to T-bol and you wont get as much bloat and still get decent strength gains. get the hcg as mentioned,and good luck bro!



I already have d-bol, so i'm sticking to it. As far as bloat, I got AI covered for that.


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## JCBourne (Aug 21, 2010)

Would Mon/Wed pin be better then Mon/Thurs?


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## superted (Aug 30, 2010)

Ill read later but I'm in 

I like what I see so far but have few comments but not with this Damn phone

Good luck


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## Tyler3295 (Aug 30, 2010)

GymRat707 said:


> Would Mon/Wed pin be better then Mon/Thurs?



Nope.

Try pinning Monday AM and Thursday PM.



sullivanjef said:


> hey im looking to do a similar cycle to that of gymrat's, i was going to do d-bol to jump start my cycle as well, and wouldn't mind avoiding the bloat. what is T-bol, trenbolon?



Go hi-jack someone else's thread.


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## JCBourne (Aug 30, 2010)

Did my first shot today and what a noob i'am. I broke a amp (fell out of  my hands) and had to have the wife inject me as I kept moving the  needle around in my glute. So my ass is a little sore, since I had to  pin it twice but not too bad and the oil didn't hurt at all. I will  start a log soon. So it looks like I have a 14.5 week cycle now. Boo!


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## superted (Aug 30, 2010)

TheCapt'n said:


> If you're bulking adding in simple things like shots of olive oil can bump up your cals . . better to over-eat that under-eat IMO . . you can easily cut the fat later with cardio etc



Healthy fats good for you and easy cals



Tyler3295 said:


> Nope.
> 
> Try pinning Monday AM and Thursday PM.



Best way IMO 


HCG prgnyl is good for 60 days for sure refrigerated

2000ius add 2cc BAC water then inj sub Q with insulin syringe at the 0.25 mark for 250 ius

I do 350 but thats ur call x 2

Definitely dont use a 23g syringe.. Expensive and painful but you can certainly load up with the test and shoot IM... Find it a bit tricky to get it accurate this way use slin pin sub Q very cheap on amazon

As for AI i would want to know my estro sensetivity before deciding on doseage... Im lucky and have never need to use an AI all comes down to genetics at the end of the day and you dont wanna crush estro will hamper gains

Just my opinion


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## XYZ (Aug 30, 2010)

GymRat707 said:


> Well I'm finally ready to do my first cycle of AAS. I've done a few PH cycles in the past.
> 
> Stats :
> 
> ...


 
My advice, is to do a little more research.  This isn't even close to being right.  

You're also too young.  With proper training and diet you can easily obtain great results.  

I've said it a thousand times and hardly anyone listens, the key to everything is DIET, DIET, DIET.  Without it nothing else matters.


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## JCBourne (Aug 30, 2010)

Sorry guys should have updated. All my questions have been answered through research on other forums I just never updated this one. Thanks for the input though.


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