# Protein Chart / Information



## Randy (May 6, 2004)

One of my biggest difficulties is trying to get enough protein intake in on a daily basis...  

I found this chart that helps a bit.   Anybody else have any good information or resources, please post.  

Protein Chart


----------



## Randy (May 6, 2004)

Protein Biological Value (BV) and what it means.

Protein Biological Value (BV) 



Whey comes out on top


----------



## Randy (May 6, 2004)

Did you know that 1 cup of milk is equal to almost 10 grams of protein..   Important to keep this in mind when mixing your shakes.


----------



## Randy (May 6, 2004)

Here is a more detailed protein chart amongst other things..

Protein Chart (Detailed)


----------



## Randy (May 6, 2004)

Ok I'm done now


----------



## maniclion (May 6, 2004)

cal   p   f   srvng
4% Cottage Cheese 109  13  5  1/2 cup  
2% Cottage Cheese 102  16  2  1/2 cup  
1% Cottage Cheese 82    14  1  1/2 cup 

I can't understand how there is such a big dif. btwn these 3 in proteins.


----------



## Randy (May 6, 2004)

Not sure Manic, but doesn't seem to be to much of a difference (1-3 grams)   

I used to like cottage cheese, but for some reason all of a sudden I acquired a strong dislike to the stuff.... <blahhhhhhhh>.   Wish I liked it though.  It is the perfect slow protein for taking before you go to bed at night.   It is stuff like this that stays with your body much longer than the fast proteins.   I have a body builder friend who is in the process of releasing a product that is supposed to give you the maximum nightime protein intake.  Not sure if it is out yet.


----------



## DeadBolt (May 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> Did you know that 1 cup of milk is equal to almost 10 grams of protein..   Important to keep this in mind when mixing your shakes.



Fine for a bulk but on a cut the sugars kill ya, gotta think of those to heh.


----------



## Randy (May 6, 2004)

Good point Deadbolt...

Also here is a different spin on things regarding protein and nutrician... I talked to a doctor who studied body building most of his life. He tells me that as far as protein goes... Most body builders take way to much protein.  He believes that you only need like half of your body weight in protein grams (1 gram to 1 kilo or something like that) .  He says that most get more than their fill in protein just by the food they eat.   Well I know that he knows much more about this than I do being a doctor.  Even if it is adviseable to take 1 gram of protein to 1 gram of body weight, most fail to add all the other protein that they are getting and can easily take to much.  I am hearing more and more about the dangers of taking to much protein and the bad things it does to your body.  All the excess protein that is not absorbed gets stored in your bones and leaves excess calcium deposits (Well something like that off the top of my head).

The kind of food you eat is also very important.  This doctor believes firmly in eating nothing but organic foods.  He also says that the eggs you eat should all be from free form chickens.  Chickens that eat bugs and are around roosters.  He reports that the yokes on these eggs will not raise the bad cholestrol levels much if any.  He says that there is a huge difference in comparison to the garbage you buy in your local grocery stores.  He has witnessed tests done to prove this.  My comment was that it was very expensive to buy nothing but organic foods.  His reply was that if you skimp on things, do it by buying your clothes at goodwill or buying used cars, but to not skimp on the quality of your food.   Now he did make some strong points.


----------



## DeadBolt (May 6, 2004)

To much protein is bad, yes thats true.  But you need quality protein over general protein.  You get protein from your grains and oats and all that good stuff but they do not do the same thing quality protein from meats, whey, and eggs do for ya.  I read this once when I first joined these boards but I forget which topic it was under.  I hope someone could come in here and put all the scientific stuff behind my thoughts.

I'm sure he made some good points but everyone has all their own theories, its a matter of who can get more people to believe it first IMO.  Personaly I say experiment with yourself, try all the options and keep a log and which ever works best for you then do it that way.  I do this with everything from lifting, dieting, and anything that has multiple ways of doing it.

If I was only allowed to take in .5-1g of protein per lb of body weight I would starve to death.  I need my protein to keep me full b/c you can only eat so many veggies heh.


----------



## CowPimp (May 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by DeadBolt *_
> Fine for a bulk but on a cut the sugars kill ya, gotta think of those to heh.



You can get low carb milk that still has a lot of protein.  I'm not sure where, but I have seen a link to a site selling it somewhere on these forums.


----------



## CowPimp (May 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> Good point Deadbolt...
> 
> Also here is a different spin on things regarding protein and nutrician... I talked to a doctor who studied body building most of his life. He tells me that as far as protein goes... Most body builders take way to much protein.  He believes that you only need like half of your body weight in protein grams (1 gram to 1 kilo or something like that) .  He says that most get more than their fill in protein just by the food they eat.   Well I know that he knows much more about this than I do being a doctor.  Even if it is adviseable to take 1 gram of protein to 1 gram of body weight, most fail to add all the other protein that they are getting and can easily take to much.  I am hearing more and more about the dangers of taking to much protein and the bad things it does to your body.  All the excess protein that is not absorbed gets stored in your bones and leaves excess calcium deposits (Well something like that off the top of my head).
> ...



I think the protein intake depends highly on the person.  I know for a fact that my gains improved when I started eating 1+ grams of protein per pound of body weight.  I still gained with less protein, but not as quickly.

Oh yeah, and we buy almost all organic foods in my household.  My dad is somewhat of a hippie, so it pays off in terms of good food.  Not only do I firmly believe that organic food is better for you, but I think most of it tastes better too.  I simply can't argue with my taste buds.


----------



## Randy (May 7, 2004)

Deadbolt/Cowpimp...

I agree with both of your opinions.   

I am one that always keeps my ears open to everything.  I listen to it all and review the facts and make my decisions.  New information is always coming to light though that makes me step back and take a look at things from a different perspective.

What if the idea of taking 1 to 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight has just been something that has been preached and preached from the supplement dealers all this time just to convince body builders that it is most efficient so they can sell more protein supplements.    Now could it be possible that in deed this is the truth that with 1 to 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight that it will give you the most efficiency to build muscle quicker, but that it could have negative long term affects and not be as healthy as someone that took less?
I'm not sure, but it is making me re- think my protein strategy.  Even if your goal is to get 1 gram of protein to 1 pound of body weight you really need to study and understand all your food groups and know how much protein your getting in your everyday food.  If not, you can very easily surpass the maximum requirement that you set.   

Bandaidwomen would probably have some good feedback on this topic.


----------



## Randy (May 7, 2004)

One reference indicated that the federal government, intending to be on the safe side, established its minimum Recommended Dietary Allowances for protein at twice the value which it had determined as the minimum required for every person who participated in a federally sponsored experimental study. The reference pointed out that the average American routinely eats four times more protein than that in their daily meals. According to that, then, the average American actually consumes eight times more protein per day than any person in the study needed to sustain good health. The link between excessive protein and calcium depletion was said to be so strong that taking supplemental calcium does NOT stem the daily calcium deficit -- it is only slowed a trifle. But it went on to say that reducing protein intake to a level near the RDA had a profound positive effect.


----------



## Randy (May 7, 2004)

I don't know how accurate this source is, but it seemed to support some of the high protein diets for bodybuilders and discount the concerns as myths 

nutritional Myths That just won't Die : Protein !


----------



## bandaidwoman (May 7, 2004)

My take on the whole thing is that it is obvious athletes, body builders etc. need more protein than the average Joe.   However, I don't think we have come up with the right value 1g/kg etc for the individual or the sport.  

As someone stated, we are all different

Also, a long distance athlete who is not trying to bulk up as much probably won't need as much as a sprinter who needs the speed that comes from muscle hypertrophy.  (100meter sprinter vs. marathon runner.)  

As for the issue of osteoperosis, the studies are underway with people who are embarking on the high protein diets (such as atkins) and there are urine bone turnover markers that can be measured that show the bone turnover is in the net losses.  It will take a many more years to show the osteoperosis on bone density scans.  *But remember this, these studies are done on sedentary individuals who are prone to osteoperosis. * A female body builder who does weight bearing excercises and eats alot of protien is probably going to have great bone density....but I can't say for sure since there are no head to head trials!

As for kidney stress.  I really believe that unless one has an underlying kidney disases, the extra protein may not harm them.  

As long as athletes have been overconsumeing protien, we aren't hearing about an epidemic of kidney problems.   But, remember this, most of the studies were done when the athletes were  active athletes (did not follow them into retirement) and they measure serum creatinine .   The kidneys pretty much have to shut down by 80% before the serum creatinine begins to rise.  (Other things can also cause false elevations in creatinine such as creatine supplementation, body mass, dehydration , taking a sulfa antibiotic etc.)  I can't find many using 24 hour creatinine clearance collected form urine that has been collected over 24 hours.  (This shows the true functional capacity of the kidneys and shows early damage before it shows up on the serum cretinine,)  That's why alot of diabetic patients have to have 24 hour urine samples done on a regular basis if a doc finds albumin in their urine (usually the earliest sign of trouble).

I take care of some retired pro wrestlers, football players and braves baseball players.   A few are even on dialysis but I believe their kidney failure is due to their other disease state (hypertension and or diabetese.)


----------



## Twin Peak (May 7, 2004)

I'd love to hear an articulate reason, supported by fact, on why "too much protein is bad."

And let me underscore the word bad.  That phrase was used several times herein.

I can articulate several arguments about why it is not "optimal" -- but that is not what has been said.

And if the answer is "protein is stored in your bones" please provide authority to this.


----------



## bandaidwoman (May 7, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I'd love to hear an articulate reason, supported by fact, on why "too much protein is bad."
> 
> And let me underscore the word bad.  That phrase was used several times herein.
> ...




Once again it depends, unfortunately, when it comes to the human body, there is never a simple dogmatic answer.  

 For instance, there is a clear association between high protein diets and development of kidney stones (especially calcium oxalate and uric acid stones.) and gout.  So if you are prone to kidney stones or gout, then a higher protein intake is definately not advisable.  

The issue with kidneys is less clear.  Once again, I think you have to have an underlying kidney disorder to begin with before it is much of a problem.  The problem is that no good prospective or retrospective data exists for those with * healthy kidneys.* (In diseased kidneys, there is a clear prevention or delay  towards dialysis in those with impaired kidney function who embark on low protein diets.)

As for osteoperosis, does high protein diet cause osteoperosis?  Prospective clinical trials are underway (unfortuneatly using sedentary people on Atkins) so we don't know yet.  

The studies out now say yes....and no.  

The following link quotes studies that say HIGH-PROTEIN DIET CAUSES OSTEOPOROSIS

http://www.drmirkin.com/archive/7130.html


Then, look at this other study that says it actually helps build bone

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/17/1671_53109?src=Inktomi&condition=Food_and_Nutrition



> March 25, 2002 -- Eating more protein could help your body absorb calcium, possibly putting a halt to bone-thinning osteoporosis, says a new study




What's the difference? The answer...the study technique and different patient population.  The latter link shows that high protein diets can actually build bone if people are supplementing correctly with enough calcium and minerals and it was a prospective trial that enlisted study subjects and followed them for three years making sure certain variables were constant and consistent.  The former link just looks at epidimiological and retrospective data that cannot contol for "confounding" variables (ie: unknown variables that may affect the conclusion such as activity level and calcium supplementation, soda pop ingestion etc.)  Also, one was just a urine study that did measure higher rates of calcium excretion in the urine but you cannnot extrapolate that to osteoperosis directly and so on.   


My theory is it does cause osteoperosis in those who are sedentary and not supplementing correctly but will increase bone density in those who are active and supplement correctly.  Here is my rational. 


 The protein ingested is broken down to amino acids in the body. The excess of the amino acids that are formed and not needed by the body has to be excreted by the kidneys. Each molecule of an amino acid must be neutralized before the kidneys can excrete it. Our body calls on calcium to handle the job. But the calcium gets excreted in the urine, along with the amino acids.  (That's why the doubling of  risk of kidney stone formation in those susceptible.)  This process drains the supply of calcium in our bloodstream, so the body has to tap the stores in bones.


Now, an athlete or body builder is going to have less excess amino acids and their bodies will be using up the "excess" and building up muscle rather than pissing it out and sequestering calcium from the bones....(that's why the supplementation is important.)  In fact, Atkins realized this and tells his dieters to increase the amount of calcium intake.  


So the answer, is high protein diet bad or good for you?  It all depends.  I know, what a cop out



.


----------



## Randy (May 7, 2004)

Bandaid, Thanks for your efforts in providing us with this information.


----------



## vas85 (May 8, 2004)

Guys as stupid as it may sound, but a Cheeseburger from McDonalds has 15grams of protien per Burger (Meat, Cheese, Bun is the protien source) so what  do if i ever need some quick protien while out and about ill get like 2-3cheeseburgers thats 45grams protien right there 

Beats the hell outta protien bars for me! and cheaper and tastier  i'm not saying go eat this type of food, but for me its good


----------



## Randy (May 8, 2004)

VAS85...

You're better off with no protein then even thinking of eating a mcdonalds burger     But good observation on the protein though


----------



## monkeyd (May 8, 2004)

Get serious man, no McD's ever (or at least extremely infrequently, but it may as well be never).  Find healthy foods that you love, that way you never have to cheat.


----------

