# losing bodyfat



## dteller1 (Jan 25, 2011)

just need a few tips really, my girlfriend is trying to lose some weight, she has lost a lot over the past 2 and a half years, down from 200lbs to 140lbs, (she is 5 foot 7) she wants to finish just above 9 or so, but she cant seem to lose anymore no matter what she tries! its been around 140 for 6months and she exercises most days and has a good diet not eating that many calories, i think her bf is at about 26% she wants to get it closer to 22%. she has just started to try cutting out nearly all carbs except veg/fruit etc, only been doing it for a few days, is this a viable option? still exercising most days for approx 40 mins, swimming twice a week and some kind of aerobics other days, ive persuaded her to do some weights, just need some advice really, i got no idea why it wont go down, she had a blood test about 1 and a half years ago and all levels were normal.


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## dteller1 (Jan 25, 2011)

bump


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## Hubauer (Jan 25, 2011)

Hey man, first of all, congratulate your gal on losing that much weight!

So, as far as diet and exercise
Diet - Yes, she could do low carb for several days followed by a carb day but this approach is probably not necessary. Find out how many calories she would eat on a normal day and reduce it by 200-300cal per day.

Exercise - She needs to be pumping those irons! Working the largest muscle groups (LEGS, back, and chest) will increase her metabolic rate and she may not even need to reduce calories. My opinion on cardio - use it sparingly but focus on weight training.

Hopefully someone with a bit more experience will post on here also... do you have any specific questions?


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## dteller1 (Jan 26, 2011)

just wondering why she cant lose weight even though there is clearly a massive calorie deficit, she is prob only eating 1000 calories a day, with less than 20g carbs, only just started this though


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## AmM (Jan 26, 2011)

dteller1 said:


> just wondering why she cant lose weight even though there is clearly a massive calorie deficit, she is prob only eating 1000 calories a day, with less than 20g carbs, only just started this though



She has to eat to lose weight. As somebody else mentioned a couple hundred calories below her maintenance will help her lose body fat while preserving muscle. A massive calorie deficit will only put the body in starvation mode, where the body will burn muscle and preserve the body fat.


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## dteller1 (Jan 26, 2011)

from what ive read "starvation mode" is a bit of a myth, ie it was all based on a starvation experiment in missisippi in the 1950's, males went on a starvation diet for a number of months, there was a decrease in metabolism but only at 5% bf did the drop in metabolism get to 40%, at higher levels of bodyfat there was only a slight drop in metabolism i cant find any other scientific basis for people having a normal amount of body fat and getting to this "starvation mode", any other feedback would be appreciated from anyone with any further knowledge


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## dteller1 (Jan 26, 2011)

here is some reading about starvation mode:

ww w.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/81391-starvation-mode-myths-and-science

if it really was as severe as people say, gastric bands would never work, as they reduce very obese people to an extremely small amount of calories


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## klc9100 (Jan 26, 2011)

a good plateau breaker is a splurge. tell her for a week to eat all she can eat and don't work out. that will shock her body. then after that week when she goes back on the diet and starts back working out, it will shock her body again. she will break through the plateau.


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## Phetamine (Jan 26, 2011)

klc9100 said:


> a good plateau breaker is a splurge. tell her for a week to eat all she can eat and don't work out. that will shock her body. then after that week when she goes back on the diet and starts back working out, it will shock her body again. she will break through the plateau.



I agree our bodies need a shock now and then and when back in the gym change to primarily weights to bust the plateau.


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## dteller1 (Jan 26, 2011)

thanks for the advice so far guys, id really like built to comment, where is she when you need her!


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## Phineas (Jan 26, 2011)

dteller1 said:


> thanks for the advice so far guys, id really like built to comment, where is she when you need her!



Out-squatting the broskies at her gym -- during her warmup.


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## dteller1 (Jan 26, 2011)

Phineas said:


> Out-squatting the broskies at her gym -- during her warmup.



that im certain of! but i need her advice here!!!


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## Hubauer (Jan 26, 2011)

I should have specified... when I said "normal diet" I did mean maintenance calories.

And even in "starvation mode" the body can lose weight, but it will be some fat, muscle, body water, etc. However, after a period of time of not enough calories, the body will not burn fat _but attempt to store it_. If you want to be a step ahead of Built, find out how many calories your gal eats in a day on FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal!


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## Built (Jan 26, 2011)

dteller1 said:


> just need a few tips really, my girlfriend is trying to lose some weight, she has lost a lot over the past 2 and a half years, down from 200lbs to 140lbs, (she is 5 foot 7)


 
Fan - freaking - TASTIC!!!



dteller1 said:


> she wants to finish just above 9 or so, but she cant seem to lose anymore no matter what she tries! its been around 140 for 6months and she exercises most days and has a good diet not eating that many calories, i think her bf is at about 26% she wants to get it closer to 22%. she has just started to try cutting out nearly all carbs except veg/fruit etc, only been doing it for a few days, is this a viable option? still exercising most days for approx 40 mins, swimming twice a week and some kind of aerobics other days, ive persuaded her to do some weights, just need some advice really, i got no idea why it wont go down, she had a blood test about 1 and a half years ago and all levels were normal.


 
Calories? Macronutrient grams?


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## dteller1 (Jan 26, 2011)

she was eating a reasonably balanced diet of about 1200 or so calories but it was very carb heavy, now she is trying to eat less than 30g carbs a day, about 70g protein, 90g fat, this is a very rough estimate, but she's eating about 1000-1200 calories a day id guess, shes gone from eating very carb heavy food, (not bad food though, was always complex carbs no sugars) to trying to eat very little carbs. she eats a lot of veg now to get fibre up, the only thing i can say for def is her total calories are approx 1000-1200 and her carbs are less than 30-40 everyday. i have persuaded her to do weights twice a week as well. she's only just started this a few days ago, but personally i cant figure out why she wasnt losing weight before, very confusing


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## Built (Jan 26, 2011)

Is she weighing her food? Because those calories are about half of what it should take for her to maintain her weight. 

Either she's totally screwed herself up (unlikely), or she's sneaking food / grossly underestimating her portion sizes. 

Do you have a food scale? And is she desperate enough to do and eat exactly what I suggest for one month?


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## dteller1 (Jan 27, 2011)

she does have a food scale, but days where ive been with her for the whole day i know what she's eating and she definitely isnt overeating which is why i cant figure it out, im a bit concerned it may be some thyroid issue or something that has developed, she is going to see the doc tomorrow to talk about it, but in the past they've said "your body just doesn't want to lose anymore weight, its happy where it is" i dont buy that though. ive told her to push for a blood test to confirm everything is normal. people talk a lot about "starvation mode" is it possible? she has been dieting for approx 3 years id guess now, but most of that has been at a reasonable calorie intake 1200-1400 calories, and most scientific evidence seems to suggest "starvation mode" as a little bit of a myth


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## Built (Jan 27, 2011)

I want to see meticulously pre-planned and weighed intake for a week.


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## dteller1 (Jan 28, 2011)

an update she went back to the doc, this was a different doc she'd never seen before and she reviewed her blood test results that were from beginning of 09 and the doc is convinced that she has PCOS, the previous doc just stated that she had slightly elevated testosterone levels but nothing to worry about it and put it down to exercise. the new doc has stated this is highly unlikely and there are also 2 figures that are slightly out, and was puzzled how the old doc missed it, but the new doc was amazed that my girlfriend had lost all that weight on her own! so she's booked in for a new blood test and then ultrasound, so we may have found a reason why she's finding it tough, but now at least we can start trying to tailor things that will help if you have that condition. anyone got any tips? ive read low gi/ low carb diets are effective for people with PCOS.


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## Marat (Jan 28, 2011)

Built said:


> I want to see meticulously pre-planned and weighed intake for a week.



There's not much we can do if she cannot follow that instruction.


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## dteller1 (Jan 28, 2011)

no one said she cant follow that instruction.....i was asking for some tips for people suffering from PCOS....?


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## Marat (Jan 28, 2011)

Her best bet, nutritionally speaking, is _probably_ to get leaner --- there likely isn't any magnificent dietetic treatment that extends beyond the dietary guidelines recommended by this forum that will straighten out her PCOS.  

She's done a great job so far -- Built can certainly help out with the last bit.


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## dteller1 (Jan 28, 2011)

i meant tips for people who wish to lose weight whilst having PCOS ie what foods are good and which exercises etc


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## Built (Jan 28, 2011)

Same foods and same exercise as anyone else. 

That being said, if it were me, I'd get into and stay in ketosis. PCOS is by and large a condition of excess insulin. That's why metformin is so often prescribed. 

Also, in PCOS, there is a profound uncoupling of appetite to metabolic need. She'll need to pay careful attention to satiety-inducing foods if she's to stick to a deficit. My money says she's cheating on her diet - and I certainly hope she is, because if she can't lose on 1000 calories a day and her doctor says she's fine, I'd like to sue him.


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## dteller1 (Jan 29, 2011)

no her new doctor says she isn;t fine and believes the reason she's now got stuck is because she believes she has PCOS, the new doctor is confused why the old doctor didnt do anything to anything with blood results when she had blood taken at the beginning of 09, she has just recently changed her diet to a lower carb intake and started to add weights, the doc has prescribed her orlistat to help her lose the last 7lbs or so, the doc said she should get to approx 130lbs and that would be ideal for her height but no lower.


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## stronger4ever (Jan 29, 2011)

My wife used to have PCOS. Then she met me while I was losing weight myself. She then lost almost 100lbs and after I stopped dieting she gained some weight back but it doesn't matter. The point is she followed the same principle anyone should to lose weight. Actually losing weight helped her condition go away. She no longer has PCOS.  We had a baby about a year ago. So she is doing really good in that respect. If insulin is high playing with ketosis would be dangerous I think. Insulin is the storage hormone and if you eat extra fat, its going to be morelikely to be stored. Now if as you say she is eating 1200 calories there is no reason for her not to lose weight. She must have slowed her metabolism by eating that little for so long. Or she is simply eating more. I remember my wife used to claim she was eating 1800 calories then I followed everything she ate in a day and measured everything and in reality it was 2500 calories. I'm very careful measuring what I eat. Even now during bulking time I eat around 5000 calories and I don't eat more than 60 grams of fat a day.  I don't think a keto diet is a really good idea unless you're very disciplined about it. I was planning on doing that fee pre contest prep and a experienced bodybuilder told me that carb cycling works a lot better. I also think hiit works a lot bette to lose fat.


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## Built (Jan 29, 2011)

dteller1 said:


> no her new doctor says she isn;t fine and believes the reason she's now got stuck is because she believes she has PCOS, the new doctor is confused why the old doctor didnt do anything to anything with blood results when she had blood taken at the beginning of 09, she has just recently changed her diet to a lower carb intake and started to add weights, the doc has prescribed her orlistat to help her lose the last 7lbs or so, the doc said she should get to approx 130lbs and that would be ideal for her height but no lower.



Orlisat won't do shit. 



stronger4ever said:


> My wife used to have PCOS. Then she met me while I was losing weight myself. She then lost almost 100lbs and after I stopped dieting she gained some weight back but it doesn't matter. The point is she followed the same principle anyone should to lose weight. Actually losing weight helped her condition go away. She no longer has PCOS.  We had a baby about a year ago. So she is doing really good in that respect.


 Fantastic!



stronger4ever said:


> If insulin is high playing with ketosis would be dangerous I think.


The doctors thought I had PCOS back when I was fat; I've investigated ketosis and PCOS quite extensively and I can assure you not only is it not dangerous, it's profoundly beneficial - especially for women affected by PCOS. Insulin isn't high by itself - insulin resistance means your body will crank out too much insulin, too soon, in response to a meal. Ketosis normalizes this. 



stronger4ever said:


> Insulin is the storage hormone and if you eat extra fat, its going to be morelikely to be stored.


Only if the extra fat means calories in excess of maintenance. Otherwise, this won't happen.



stronger4ever said:


> Now if as you say she is eating 1200 calories there is no reason for her not to lose weight. She must have slowed her metabolism by eating that little for so long. Or she is simply eating more.* I remember my wife used to claim she was eating 1800 calories then I followed everything she ate in a day and measured everything and in reality it was 2500 calories.*



Bingo.





stronger4ever said:


> I'm very careful measuring what I eat. Even now during bulking time I eat around 5000 calories and I don't eat more than 60 grams of fat a day.  I don't think a keto diet is a really good idea* unless you're very disciplined about it*.


There's actually no other way to do a keto diet.





stronger4ever said:


> I was planning on doing that fee pre contest prep and a experienced bodybuilder told me that carb cycling works a lot better. I also think hiit works a lot bette to lose fat.


It all works. It's just a matter of maintaining a deficit.


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## dteller1 (Jan 29, 2011)

honestly she isnt eating more than we think, she has been weighing food and used a food diary and it normally comes out around 1200, but she was having more carbs then, for the last week she is trying to reduce her carb intake and up the protein and that would tie in if she had pcos. she's also going to do weights twice a week (she was doing none before) to as well as cardio 3 times. hopefully that will get it moving and she's scheduled in for a blood test in the next couple of weeks


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## mike456 (Jan 29, 2011)

sounds like she is eating too little and screwed up her metabolism


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## dteller1 (Jan 29, 2011)

i did think that too, but i did extensive reading on the subject of famine mode that sort of idea and although your metabolism does get slower as you cut calories, it only drops vastly when your bodyfat is very very low


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## Built (Jan 29, 2011)

dteller1 said:


> honestly she isnt eating more than we think, she has been weighing food and used a food diary and it normally comes out around 1200, but she was having more carbs then, for the last week she is trying to reduce her carb intake and up the protein


 
Good. 



dteller1 said:


> and that would tie in if she had pcos. she's also going to do weights twice a week (she was doing none before) to as well as cardio 3 times. hopefully that will get it moving and she's scheduled in for a blood test in the next couple of weeks


 
What macro mix is she shooting for? If I can offer a suggestion, I'd say try for about 90-120g protein and 60-90g of fat, with carbs in the 50g range (or less). Try to get in as much fibre as possible - stuff like broccoli and other green and leafy veggies (not peas). 



mike456 said:


> sounds like she is eating too little and screwed up her metabolism


 


dteller1 said:


> i did think that too, but i did extensive reading on the subject of famine mode that sort of idea and although your metabolism does get slower as you cut calories, it only drops vastly when your bodyfat is very very low


 
Mike, it was a good thought, but I think dteller's right here - she's not lean enough for this to have happened, not to this extent. Something's amiss.


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## dteller1 (Jan 30, 2011)

her carbs are definitely less than 50g, i dont think her protein is quite that high unfortunately, i would estimate her protein to be around 60g, what things could she add to increase protein? she doesn't want to have shake type things, but she is trying to have nuts and some cheese's etc as a snack inbetween meals, celery and peanut butter that kind of thing, fat is probably somewhere in that range, she is trying to eat any carbs she does have as wholegrain ones, nothing  with white flour in, the doc has told her to take a break from exercise this week, she was exercising every day, then next weekend she is going to exercise 5 times a week, 2 weights and 3 cardio's, take the tablets. she is booked in for a blood test and ultrasound so hopefully it will all be sorted. i know you cant spot reduce fat but she doesnt carry her fat all over its only a little round her stomach really, probably why she notices it more as the rest of her doesnt carry much. is it worth trying to get her to have a protein shake before bed? she has just started using fitday today, so that should give a better idea of macronutrient breakdown


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## Built (Jan 30, 2011)

She should not be snacking at all. Nuts are very low in protein. I'd suggest no grain whatsoever. It doesn't matter what time of day or night she eats - the only thing that matters is that she runs a deficit. 

What's the ultrasound for?

Glad to hear of the fitday. Post it up once you have some numbers. With any luck, she's been underestimating her intake - if she has, this next step will be easy.


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## dteller1 (Jan 30, 2011)

ultrasound is for the pcos, to verify she has it i'd guess, but first of all she's having another blood test, her last was beginning of 09, so they are doing that first. so she's done todays fitday and it came out at 1250 calories, 70g fat, 40g carbs, 110g protein. ive managed to persuade her to have a protein shake before bed, ive read it can help stabilize blood sugar through the night and obviously give a protein boost, they are screening her for diabetes as well, although i think its unlikely she'd have it. 140lbs for 5 foot 7 is a healthy weight adn she has a health bf she just wants to lose some of the excess, other days would be slightly higher carbs depending on the breakfast, some days she has shredded wheat/special k which have very little sugar but obviously have complex carbs.


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## Built (Jan 30, 2011)

Trust me on this. No grain. No carbs in the morning, period. If she's going to have any carb at all, have it before her workouts so her glucose transporters can help her metabolize it. If she has it in the AM, she'll promote more insulin and for PCOS, this means more PCOS.​


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## dteller1 (Jan 30, 2011)

ok i will let her know, in terms of the above breakdown, is that ok? how low should carbs be for the day?


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## Built (Jan 30, 2011)

She's fine. On the lifting days, she could have 20-40g more carb in the form of a starch, ideally potato, sweet potato or rice, either before she trains or half before and half after (her choice).


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## dteller1 (Jan 30, 2011)

thanks built your very helpful and i appreciate it, ive advised her against cereals and she's going to have things like scrambled eggs, omlette, boiled eggs, bacon, turkey rashes, sausages? is that better? with main meals if we have any carbs its going to be sweet potatoes/whole grain rice that kind of thing, low gi carbs


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## Built (Jan 30, 2011)

GI doesn't matter worth shit, no matter what you read or what the doctors tell you. White and brown rice have almost the same GI. Mars bars have a lower GI than mashed potatoes, but guess which food is highest on the satiety index?

If she must have a starch, try potatoes and pulses. They're more filling.


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## Built (Jan 30, 2011)

Also have her drink a small whey shake before meals. This helps with both satiety and with glycemic control. And no snacks - have her try for three meals a day with nothing eaten in between. Large, infrequent meals are better than small frequent meals for both satiety and for glycemic control. (And yes, I know this flies in the face of what we've been told for years, but the research supports it and my personal experience backs it up, at least for myself). 

Good luck.


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## dteller1 (Jan 30, 2011)

so in regards to the breakfasts, are they a better choice there is little to no carbs in most of those?


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## Built (Jan 30, 2011)

Well, I'll tell you how I eat these days - you can take from this whatever you can use. Keep in mind my calories are higher. This is about 2000 calories, with about 220-280g protein, 80-100g fat and under 100g carb on average.

10-11 AM: Whey shake with 5g fish oil. 10 minutes later: One tin of tuna (100g), 200g cottage cheese. Possibly half an avocado or some walnuts depending on my calories. 

3-4 PM: Whey shake with 5 fish oil caps. 10 minutes later, meat, buttered veggies, yogurt with raspberries. 

9-10 PM: Whey shake. 10 minutes later, meat, veggies, salad, oil dressing, whatever else my calories allow. If it's a training day, I may have some rice or a dosa (chickpea crepe) with this meal, since I train in the evening and this meal is post-workout.

That's it.


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## cameron19 (Feb 4, 2011)

I agree to  you mike , if she eat less the more she feels
the starvation mode.

She need to eat less, more often.Not only will it increase you metabolism through the day, but it will also help you control your diet. Take time to chew your food. Digestion begins with the mouth, when you  chew your food it's mixed with your saliva which contain digestion  enzymes.You can keep your body healthy if you achieve thorough digestion, so chew your food properly and savor the food.

 If she want to really lose weight do it properly and do some natural 
weight loss.





​


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## dteller1 (Feb 4, 2011)

cameron19 said:


> I agree to  you mike , if she eat less the more she feels
> the starvation mode.
> 
> She need to eat less, more often.Not only will it increase you metabolism through the day, but it will also help you control your diet. Take time to chew your food. Digestion begins with the mouth, when you  chew your food it's mixed with your saliva which contain digestion  enzymes.You can keep your body healthy if you achieve thorough digestion, so chew your food properly and savor the food.
> ...



thanks for the advice but i think we've debunked starvation mode earlier on. besides we are only talking about the last 10lbs or so, she has lost 60 already!


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## Built (Feb 4, 2011)

cameron19 said:


> I agree to you mike , if she eat less the more she feels
> the starvation mode.
> 
> She need to eat less, more often*.Not only will it increase you metabolism through the day*,


No, it won't. Meal frequency does not impact upon metabolic rate.


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## dteller1 (Feb 4, 2011)

so she is now tracking fitday and calories are at around 1200 every day, protein is normally about 90g, fat about 70g carbs are about 50g. started doing weights twice a week and some form of cardio on 3 days. Would it be possible for weight to stay the same or even go up a little with the introduction of weights, but still lose fat?


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## comingsoon (Feb 4, 2011)

I think she has to take walking after meals specially after supper.


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## Built (Feb 4, 2011)

dteller1 said:


> so she is now tracking fitday and calories are at around 1200 every day, protein is normally about 90g, fat about 70g carbs are about 50g. started doing weights twice a week and some form of cardio on 3 days. Would it be possible for weight to stay the same or even go up a little with the introduction of weights, but still lose fat?



Yes, if she eats at a surplus. 

No, if she runs a deficit. That being said, her muscles may become a bit inflamed initially and hold water. This will pass. True muscle gain on a female running such low calories will be in the range of ounces per month at best.


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## dteller1 (Feb 4, 2011)

what about things like glycogen retention? ie glycogen being stored? its early days, but 1200 calories a day, and orlistat, blood test on wed hopefully that will shed some light, im confused why it doesn't go down, i read an interesting study about ladies with pcos and insulin resistance having significantly lower bmr's


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## Built (Feb 4, 2011)

I thought about glycogen; it's possible, but 70g of carb ain't much to reglycogenate on.


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## dteller1 (Feb 4, 2011)

that is true but if the body needs glycogen, will it not convert the glycerol from lipids to glycogen. Ladies with PCOS have higher test levels, do they potentially build more muscle?


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## Built (Feb 4, 2011)

You're not going to get any significant reglycogenation on below-maintenance calories and low carbs. I did Atkins for a long time and I got no pumps in ketosis.


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## dteller1 (Feb 4, 2011)

is there any reason you can think of someone wouldn;t lose weight with an intake that low?


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## Built (Feb 4, 2011)

Thyroid.


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