# CONFUSED! how many Calories do !I! need to gain more muscle



## Kracin (Mar 17, 2005)

i saw that calorie intake articles, and a couple other ones on building mass. ive been trying to do it for about a month now, and i think i have 2 problems. 

1) im not eating enough

2) im not training right

with problem 1, i was eating around 3300-3500 calories a day from what i had usually.

when i checked it said i needed around 3996 calories just to maintain??? it must have been right because for 2-3 weeks straight i had no weight gain at all, and i highly doubt i was losing fat and gaining muscle because my body fat is 5% at 180-183 lbs.

so i added in an extra half cup of oats with each time i had them to go over 4000, to about 4300? am i correct in doing this?? here is about what i have on average for an estimate, along with what it says i SHOULD be getting.

whey 3 servings (9 scoops), 990 calories, 180g protein, 18g fat, 36g carbs
chicken 3 servings - 483 calories, 6.9g fat, 105g protein
oats 4 servings(1.5 cups) 1800 calories, 36g fat, 60g protein, 324g carbs
4 medium eggs (3 whites 1 whole) - 1024 calories, 16g fat, 16g carbs, 96g protein

Total -
 Calories - 4297
 Carbs - 376 g
 protein - 441 g
 fat - 76 g

Estimated needs -
 Calories = 4000
 Carbs - 550 (a day) - 91 per meal
 Protein - 300 (a day) - 50 per meal
 Fat - 66 (a day) - 11 per meal

any suggestions on what to do so i can have more clean gain while i am doing this? i also lift very heavy (or attempt to, i know im not doing something right, i have to rethink my routine, or find someone to help me out with it, so im doing the right exercises). i always drink about 2 gallons of water a day as well. i just dont understand, either that or i am actually gaining and just don't realize it.

if someone wants to try their own calculations or estimates.

im 6'1
180 lbs
5% body fat
extremely active 5 days a week (my job keeps me under a constant light sweat for 8 hours. go order pickers for grocery distrubuters)
not sure if theres much else to add.


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## Jodi (Mar 17, 2005)

Would you mind posting your current diet.  Your metabolism is either screaming through the freaking roof or you may mis-calculated.  I'd like to add up your numbers and see what I get.  Please make sure you include everything.  Thanks


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## Emma-Leigh (Mar 17, 2005)

Kracin said:
			
		

> i saw that calorie intake articles, and a couple other ones on building mass.


Which article(s) in particular?



> ive been trying to do it for about a month now, and i think i have 2 problems.
> 
> 1) im not eating enough
> 
> ...


What calculations did you use to get your maintainence figures? And why do you say you are not correct in your training?



> so i added in an extra half cup of oats with each time i had them to go over 4000, to about 4300? am i correct in doing this?? here is about what i have on average for an estimate, along with what it says i SHOULD be getting.
> 
> whey 3 servings (9 scoops), 990 calories, 180g protein, 18g fat, 36g carbs
> chicken 3 servings - 483 calories, 6.9g fat, 105g protein
> ...


I would be reluctant to increase cals by 1000 in one jump... Especially if you want to stay lean and especially if you were maintaining on 3300-3500 cals.

Now - can you write this up how you would normally eat it (as in split it into your daily meals).

Also - Why so much whey? You really should be getting more of your calories from real food. You also need more vegetables, healthy fats and some fruit and other things in that food plan. 

Plus - there is no way that you need 441g of protein. At 180 pound you need a max of around 270g - 441 is just a waste of money.. You can get a LOT more anabolic benefit from increasing your carbs or fats instead.



> any suggestions on what to do so i can have more clean gain while i am doing this?i always drink about 2 gallons of water a day as well. i just dont understand, either that or i am actually gaining and just don't realize it.
> 
> if someone wants to try their own calculations or estimates.
> 
> ...


Ok - How I would calculate your requirements is to start off with a rough estimate of your needs... Which would be:
BMR roughly = (LBM (kg) x 21) + 400 = (78 x 21) + 400 = 2038
Activity factor ~1.7- 1.8 (highly active) = 2038 x (1.7 - 1.8) = 3460 - 3670

Average ~ 3570 cals/day to maintain

To add mass - add 5-10% = 3750 to 3930 cals.

So start with ~3800 cals and see what happens.

For your macronutrients:
Protein max needs ~1.5g/pound = 270g
Fats ~0.5g/pound (highly active) = 90g
Carbs ~2.5-3g/pound (highly active) = 450 - 540g

To get ~ 3800 cals:
1080 cals (270g) from protein
810 cals (90g) from fat
You need 480g carbs (2.7g/pound) 

Which is a split of 50% carbs, 30% prptein, 20% fat.

If you write up a rough diet plan I can look over it and see if I can give you meal suggestions.



> i also lift very heavy (or attempt to, i know im not doing something right, i have to rethink my routine, or find someone to help me out with it, so im doing the right exercises).


If you post your routine in the exercise section I am sure someone will help you out.


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## Kracin (Mar 18, 2005)

whey 3 servings (9 scoops), 990 calories, 180g protein, 18g fat, 36g carbs
chicken 3 servings - 483 calories, 6.9g fat, 105g protein
oats 4 servings(1.5 cups) 1800 calories, 36g fat, 60g protein, 324g carbs
4 medium eggs (3 whites 1 whole) - 1024 calories, 16g fat, 16g carbs, 96g protein

basically what i am having

6-7am
3 scoops whey
4 eggs (1 whole 3 whites)
1.5 cup oats

10 am
usually nothing if i dont have a quick snack

1 pm
6 oz chicken
1.5 cup oats
3 scoops whey
can of green beans

4pm
6 oz chicken
1.5 cup oats
can of green beans

6pm (workout then post workout meal after im done around 7)
3 scoops whey
1.5 cup oats
6 oz chicken

10 pm
usually been trying to get some cottage cheese but i ran out so i end up just having a tablespoon of natural peanut butter.


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## Kracin (Mar 18, 2005)

i guess what i could do is take it down to about 1 scoop of whey per serving, that would eliminate about 660 calories, and also the extra protein which you say isnt needed


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## Jodi (Mar 18, 2005)

Kracin said:
			
		

> whey 3 servings (9 scoops), 990 calories, 180g protein, 18g fat, 36g carbs
> chicken 3 servings - 483 calories, 6.9g fat, 105g protein
> oats 4 servings(1.5 cups) 1800 calories, 36g fat, 60g protein, 324g carbs
> 4 medium eggs (3 whites 1 whole) - 1024 calories, 16g fat, 16g carbs, 96g protein
> ...


Comments in bold above.  I made my suggestions as to what I think would be a good meal plan for you figuring in what you already eat and adding some important foods such as fruit and dairy which you were lacking.  These are my suggestions and here are the totals.

This brings the totals too:  
Cals:  3782
Protein: 303G
Carb:  440G
Fat: 90G Fat


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## Emma-Leigh (Mar 18, 2005)

Jodi said:
			
		

> Comments in bold above.  I made my suggestions as to what I think would be a good meal plan for you figuring in what you already eat and adding some important foods such as fruit and dairy which you were lacking.  These are my suggestions and here are the totals.
> 
> This brings the totals too:
> Cals:  3782
> ...




What she said!


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## Kracin (Mar 18, 2005)

Jodi said:
			
		

> Comments in bold above.  I made my suggestions as to what I think would be a good meal plan for you figuring in what you already eat and adding some important foods such as fruit and dairy which you were lacking.  These are my suggestions and here are the totals.
> 
> This brings the totals too:
> Cals:  3782
> ...




thanks jodi, i didnt mention that i had fruit with breakfast, there is not much of anything in them except for glucose sugars that they dont really count for much. my usualy dairy i was getting from cottage cheese

today i did change it after i posted that to having 1 scoop of whey instead of 3, when i was doing the 3 i wasnt getting a lot of normal food because it was costing a lot to buy that much, whereas i get the whey 6lbs for 20 dollars, and i guess i never changed it when i was making enough to put more real food into my diet.

and i typically make homemad meal replacement bars for my 10 am, because i have pretty much no time to eat anything, so i just carry it with me and scarf at 10 o clock. ran out for about a week before i was able to make more when i got home from work today, so ive got that covered. they are made with alot of whey, oats, natural peanut butter and a couple bananas (only half cup of pb. about 5 scoops of whey, and about 6 cups of oats, split among 10 bars, decent enough for me).

thanks for the advice and help, i just need to straight some things out and get everything back on a correct track, ive been straying lately too


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## milwood (Mar 18, 2005)

very helpful info, Jodi. Thanks for this thread.


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## Maynard Keenan (Mar 18, 2005)

body weight / 2.205 x 30.4 lets you know how many cals a day to stay the same weight.   Then tack on 500-1000 extra a day.  Start cal counting.


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## Kracin (Mar 18, 2005)

Maynard Keenan said:
			
		

> body weight / 2.205 x 30.4 lets you know how many cals a day to stay the same weight.   Then tack on 500-1000 extra a day.  Start cal counting.




thats if you sit around do do nothing all day? if you do or dont exercise? not exactly accurate considering i was staying the same weight eating 3500 and that says id need 2480 about.... lol


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## Maynard Keenan (Mar 18, 2005)

Kracin said:
			
		

> thats if you sit around do do nothing all day? if you do or dont exercise? not exactly accurate considering i was staying the same weight eating 3500 and that says id need 2480 about.... lol


  Its just a guideline.  I used this method and put size on after I started counting cals and always made sure I had at least 4500 everyday.  Just always make sure you dont have days where your cals are low.


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## Kracin (Mar 18, 2005)

its a consisten diet, just need to workout out the exercise now.


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## sara (Mar 18, 2005)

Ian, I'm so glad you got your diet workout


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## SlimShady (Mar 18, 2005)

Kracin said:
			
		

> its a consisten diet, just need to workout out the exercise now.


 Speaking as a hard gainer, here are a few things that worked for me;  

 Listen to Emma and Jodi cause they are the best at fixing up your diet.
 Do zero cardio. 
 Work each bodypart once a week. (I workout 3-4 times per week, usually about 9 sets per body part.) No more.
 Drink 8 oz of grape juice (plus glutamine) immeadiatly after workout for an insulin spike. Followed up with MRP that provides protein AND carbs. 

 Some people might disagree or say this stuff doesn't work for them, but I've got super high metabolism and this is how I managed to gain a few pounds.


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## Kracin (Mar 18, 2005)

SlimShady said:
			
		

> Speaking as a hard gainer, here are a few things that worked for me;
> 
> Listen to Emma and Jodi cause they are the best at fixing up your diet.
> Do zero cardio.
> ...



thanks. and i dont claim to have a high metabolism, its just that i basically have a hard cardio routine 5 days a week as my job. try stepping up onto a foot high platform on and off, picking up cases ranging from 1lb to 40 lbs, and running back and forth in aisles about 800-1000 times for 8-10 hours a day and see how much you burn off lol


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## SlimShady (Mar 18, 2005)

Then you gotta eat a lot more. One other thing I do is - I try to keep my diet as clean as possible, but I'm not afraid to wolf down a pizza or philly sandwich either. The fat is not real healthy, but the extra calories never hurt guys like us. I avoid total crap like french fries, but if something is even remotely nutritious, then I will eat it. I have my regular 'diet' that's full of good stuff like oatmeal, chicken, steak, broccoli, etc... I make sure I always eat my regular 6 meals that are in the plan. The cheat stuff is just extra.


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## Missfit4all (Mar 19, 2005)

SlimShady said:
			
		

> I avoid total crap like french fries, but if something is even remotely nutritious, then I will eat it.



Yes, i'm like U R.... restaurant FF are a definite no no.  Grease, Grease and more Grease!    But why deprive ourselves when we can make our own Home-made, Oven Baked, French Fries in a Jiffy?   

---Potatoe, slice em up
---Toss em' in bowl with a tad bit of your Healthy oil.
---Season to your liking
---Bake on 350 for 30 min.

WALA!!!  You have healthy, home-made, Oven Baked, French Fries!     May need to turn once over during the baking process?

*_______________________
Am i invited 2 the Fitness Party? 
I'll do the cookin'!!     *


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## thajeepster (Mar 19, 2005)

Missfit4all said:
			
		

> Yes, i'm like U R.... restaurant FF are a definite no no.  Grease, Grease and more Grease!    But why deprive ourselves when we can make our own Home-made, Oven Baked, French Fries in a Jiffy?
> 
> ---Potatoe, slice em up
> ---Toss em' in bowl with a tad bit of your Healthy oil.
> ...



hell yeah, homemade sweetpotato fries are the best.


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## Missfit4all (Mar 19, 2005)

thajeepster said:
			
		

> hell yeah, homemade sweetpotato fries are the best.



Sweet potato fries?  ....very adventurous!  lol.  May have 2 try!!! I do like the sweetness of sweet potatoes and eat them Mashed or twice baked...will have 2 try the ff version!  thanks.   

*___________________
am i invited 2 the fitness party?
i can do the cookin'!   *


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## thajeepster (Mar 19, 2005)

Missfit4all said:
			
		

> Sweet potato fries?  ....very adventurous!  lol.  May have 2 try!!! I do like the sweetness of sweet potatoes and eat them Mashed or twice baked...will have 2 try the ff version!  thanks.



yep, cut em up like fries, toss some cinnamon/splenda/sf maple syrup in a plastic bag, add fries, shake em up good, and bake em... best tasting fries ever.


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## Missfit4all (Mar 19, 2005)

thajeepster said:
			
		

> yep, cut em up like fries, toss some cinnamon/splenda/sf maple syrup in a plastic bag, add fries, shake em up good, and bake em... best tasting fries ever.



Guess what?  i have a Sweet Potato within reach!  LOL.  i will give ur recipe  a try (sounds delicious!) and let u know how goes it?  

__________________
A Sweet Potato french fry anyone?


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## thajeepster (Mar 19, 2005)

cool, im actually gonna have it in my next meal too, although im making them into chips instead of fries


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## Kracin (Mar 19, 2005)

SlimShady said:
			
		

> Then you gotta eat a lot more. One other thing I do is - I try to keep my diet as clean as possible, but I'm not afraid to wolf down a pizza or philly sandwich either. The fat is not real healthy, but the extra calories never hurt guys like us. I avoid total crap like french fries, but if something is even remotely nutritious, then I will eat it. I have my regular 'diet' that's full of good stuff like oatmeal, chicken, steak, broccoli, etc... I make sure I always eat my regular 6 meals that are in the plan. The cheat stuff is just extra.




ok lol maybe you didnt see my post before, i dont know what my metabolism is so eating unhealthy just for calories wont work, and for a little reference i was 350 lbs about a year ago, so theres no way im going to just say "ah fuck it i need calories, commere cheeseburger, you have protein!" thats just stupid in itself to say that calories are calories. they come from different things, if your going to add calories to gain. you need to add carbohydrate calories in most cases, the added fat doesnt do good for bulking at all. that doesnt keep you from losing lbm and trans fat doesnt help you gain lbm either. sorry man, but ive been eating nothing but clean healthy food for a year straight and i dont see any end in sight for that.


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## Kracin (Mar 19, 2005)

mmmmmmmmm those fries sound good though!, whish i had more time to prepare things like that more often


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## thajeepster (Mar 19, 2005)

mmm... they were damn good too, check em out.


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## Missfit4all (Mar 19, 2005)

thajeepster said:
			
		

> mmm... they were damn good too, check em out.



Jeepster, Ur a funny guy!!   I saw that picture and started LMAO!!!    Yes, will give the Sweet Potato chips a try also!! (he. he.)

_____________
 2 funny!!


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## thajeepster (Mar 19, 2005)

i'd definitely recommend the "okinawan" sweet potatoes though, they are the ones that are purple on the inside... much sweeter and better tasting imo.


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## Missfit4all (Mar 19, 2005)

*Two thumbs up on Sweet Pototo Fries & chips!!*  

I tried them both & both... r real tasty!  Did like us said, tossed in syrup & cinnamon.  Great added flavor!  I should have put them on bottom rack to crisp up better?  (usually do cook Home-made fries on bottom rack 4 crispyness but i forgot.)   Both cooked for 30 min. The chips I had 2 watch after 15 min. and take out the crisp ones as i went along...Good stuff, Elroy!  Thanks 4 the new ff recipe!!

____________________
Sweet Potato Facts

* more fiber than oatmeal
* 130 Calories
* High source of Vitamin A -twice the daily recommended amount
* Great source of Vitamin E
* Prevention of common types of cancers
* George Washington had a Sweet Potato Farm!!

"i Yam what i Yam!!" some call Yams....some call Sweet Potato's?  Both R right according 2 www.Sweetpotato.org and where facts were found. ;


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## thajeepster (Mar 19, 2005)

np, glad you liked em.


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## Missfit4all (Mar 19, 2005)

Sweet Potato, Chips!!  day da bomb, dude!


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