# Why is deca a bad first cycle?



## Lomac (Sep 28, 2005)

> Originally posted by - Purdue Power - You should never do Deca, alone. For a first cycle, just Test is best.


 I'm just curious, why is deca a poor first cycle? Why is test better?

Also (obviously I know very little about gear) what is IMO?


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## GFR (Sep 28, 2005)

1. Deca dick.....on an all deca cycle you will probably struggle to get it up
2. Deca is 2 or 3 times as expensive as test....and you need twice the dose to get the same results you would from test....


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## Tha Don (Sep 28, 2005)

its not the fact that deca is a poor first cycle, its that test is a better first cycle, as test generally forms a good base for all cycles/stacks, also as foreman said test is cheaper and also more effective than deca


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## LAM (Sep 28, 2005)

deca is a purely anabolic compound, if you don't take any androgens with it you can suffer from ED and your strength will also be in the shitter.


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## Pirate! (Sep 28, 2005)

IMO = In My Opinion


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## GFR (Sep 28, 2005)

I did a 1200mg a week deca cycle once. My strength and size made considerable gains and I suffered 0 side effects...test will give me some minor sides even at 400mg a week...
But if I did something like that cycle again I would add 300mg test a week or some Masteron.


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## Tha Don (Sep 28, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I did a 1200mg a week deca cycle once. My strength and size made considerable gains and I suffered 0 side effects...test will give me some minor sides even at 400mg a week...
> But if I did something like that cycle again I would add 300mg test a week or some Masteron.


you like your deca don't cha?

i'm on the verge of dropping it from my next cycle, just because i feel it would be useful to see how i respond to test only first, and TBH i think i can add a good 20lbs of LBM with test, zest and plenty of rest alone, i don't think i need anything else to reach my targets from the cycle  my main aim is to stay trim coz i added way too much fat last time round (and the time before on PH's!!), and i'll be dammed if i end up getting fat again!


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## PWGriffin (Sep 28, 2005)

I've been told deca is good for the joints, that's one of the reasons I'm taking it here soon, but I'm also stacking sust250 with it though.  We will see...


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## Mudge (Sep 28, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I did a 1200mg a week deca cycle once. My strength and size made considerable gains and I suffered 0 side effects...test will give me some minor sides even at 400mg a week...
> But if I did something like that cycle again I would add 300mg test a week or some Masteron.



You are a freak though, you respond like nobodies business. Well, except for Lee Priest who only runs 2cc of deca a week.


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## jasone (Oct 6, 2005)

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think if you already have a good base deca can help one reach a higher plateau with the least amount of side-effects.  Your results may not be a good as with test but it does work.  I don't speak from personal experience but I have seen first hand visible results in weeks with friends who were experienced lifters.  Remember with test you are injecting cholesterol into your system.   Deca is a cleaner drug and can also be effective in small amounts (400mg/wk) Of course with any drug overuse can be counterproductive.

If you feel that your body already produces high test naturally than deca would be a better choice.  My test levels are probably higher than most teens.  This could explain my battle with hair loss.  Test would destroy my attempts to regain controls over my hair line. I doubt that deca dick would be a problem if I decided to try.  At 32 I am as much of a walking hard-on today than I was in my teens.   

I have rededicated myself to training/diet and continue to make tremendous progress naturally.  Over the past year I have gone from 20% body fat at 180 lbs to 15% at 200 lbs. Why interfere with success?  If I wanted to cycle today deca would be my choice because I have natural high test.  But if I waited until I was older and my test levels were low than test-e would be my choice.  The answer to this question depends on the individual's chemistry.

I'm hoping you experts out there can help me if I'm wrong.  I myself have been wrestling with the test vs deca question.  By the time I decide, I will be close to 220 at 10- 15% bf naturally.  Getting big off a first cycle will not be a problem, but making these gains in a safe way with regard to hair loss and health could.
Just some thoughts, thanks


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## Pirate! (Oct 6, 2005)

Nobody has high test levels while running a deca only cycle, even if your natural test level is high. Deca causes complete shut-down of natual test production.


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## gococksDJS (Oct 6, 2005)

jasone said:
			
		

> If you feel that your body already produces high test naturally than deca would be a better choice. My test levels are probably higher than most teens. This could explain my battle with hair loss. Test would destroy my attempts to regain controls over my hair line. I doubt that deca dick would be a problem if I decided to try. At 32 I am as much of a walking hard-on today than I was in my teens.
> 
> I have rededicated myself to training/diet and continue to make tremendous progress naturally. Over the past year I have gone from 20% body fat at 180 lbs to 15% at 200 lbs. Why interfere with success? If I wanted to cycle today deca would be my choice because I have natural high test. But if I waited until I was older and my test levels were low than test-e would be my choice. The answer to this question depends on the individual's chemistry.
> 
> ...


 It wouldn't matter if you had test levels 100 times greater than a teenager, deca will shut down your HPTA. When your supplying your body with an exogenous source of hormones, your natural production shuts down, because it is not needed, and it will have to be kickstarted again once you come off, and deca is very suppressive.


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## GFR (Oct 6, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> It wouldn't matter if you had test levels 100 times greater than a teenager, deca will shut down your HPTA. When your supplying your body with an exogenous source of hormones, your natural production shuts down, because it is not needed, and it will have to be kickstarted again once you come off, and deca is very suppressive.


Wont using HCG help prevent deca dick?


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## musclepump (Oct 6, 2005)

deca ddiiiccckkk! hahah...


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## Stu (Oct 6, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Wont using HCG help prevent deca dick?


 probably not, i think the loss of libido from deca is probably due to the fact it raises prolactin levels, similar to the way tren does. 

 Prolactin serioulsy kills your libido.


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## gococksDJS (Oct 6, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Wont using HCG help prevent deca dick?


 Depends on several factors like how hard your shut down when you start using HCG, how much HCG you use etc etc. but while HCG stimulates leydig cells in your testis to produce testosterone, it is still suppressive to your hypothalamus and pituitary gland, so when you stop the HCG, your entire HPTA will be shutdown, because your hypothalamus and pituitary gland have been shutdown the whole time, despite HCG use.


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## Pirate! (Oct 6, 2005)

Stu said:
			
		

> probably not, i think the loss of libido from deca is probably due to the fact it raises prolactin levels, similar to the way tren does.
> 
> Prolactin serioulsy kills your libido.


Yep, HCG will keep your balls up to size, but it doesn't prevent deca dick.


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## luke69duke69 (Oct 17, 2005)

So as long as you're running test with deca, you should be safe on the deca dick?  and also as long as you run it two weeks shorter of a cycle than test?


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## lnvanry (Oct 17, 2005)

Stu said:
			
		

> probably not, i think the loss of libido from deca is probably due to the fact it raises prolactin levels, similar to the way tren does.
> 
> Prolactin serioulsy kills your libido.


 damnit!!!!!!!!!!

 Tren makes you limp...SOB...What if you run with test prop? 
 could that counteract the tren?  I am running tren/prop mix for 3 weeks at the end of my cycle.  I avoid Deca b/c of the effects of libido...If I knew that tren is going to do that I would have taken EQ the whole time


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## gococksDJS (Oct 17, 2005)

luke69duke69 said:
			
		

> So as long as you're running test with deca, you should be safe on the deca dick? and also as long as you run it two weeks shorter of a cycle than test?


 Test may help prevent deca dick but you need to remember that deca is incredibly suppressive with an incredibly long half-life. But not everyone gets deca dick so it's not a guarantee.


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## Lomac (Oct 18, 2005)

So if deca is so suppresive to the HPTA what is the correct PCT? Would you do anything different coming off deca then test, D-bol or anything else?
What determines how suppresive a AAS is? 
Why do some people get Deca dick and some don't? (obviously genetics but what part?)

Srry for the mob of questions, This is just a fun post!


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## Pirate! (Oct 18, 2005)

Ever steroids taken in doses high enough to create anabolism will cause complete, or very near to it, shut down. To say that 400 mg of deca is more suppressive than 400 mg of test is incorrect. Either will completely shut down your natural test production. However, deca takes longer to recover from--which is what I think many people really mean when they say it is more suppresive. Some people think deca and tren shrink their nuts more. Personally, 700 mg/week of tren doesn't put a dent in my libido, but half that dose of nandrolone (Deca) does.


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## GFR (Oct 18, 2005)

PirateFromHell said:
			
		

> Ever steroids taken in doses high enough to create anabolism will cause complete, or very near to it, shut down. To say that 400 mg of deca is more suppressive than 400 mg of test is incorrect. Either will completely shut down your natural test production. However, deca takes longer to recover from--which is what I think many people really mean when they say it is more suppresive. Some people think deca and tren shrink their nuts more. Personally, 700 mg/week of tren doesn't put a dent in my libido, but half that dose of nandrolone (Deca) does.


You have done 700mg of tren per week  
what did you stack it with....and at what dose....


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## luke69duke69 (Oct 18, 2005)

So how long after your last shot will deca last? I know the half life is 15 days...  Is it 15 days or is it longer til it's not suppressing your system?


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## gococksDJS (Oct 18, 2005)

luke69duke69 said:
			
		

> So how long after your last shot will deca last? I know the half life is 15 days... Is it 15 days or is it longer til it's not suppressing your system?


 Technically the drug itself is not what is suppressing your system after your cycle because the levels have diminished. Say you weren't using HCG on cycle, and your testes have atrophied due to your HPTA being shut down. First your body has to sense the fact that your test levels rival that of a 5 year old girl. Then the process begins by your hypothalamus producing gonadotropin releasing hormones which signal your pituitary gland to produce leutenizing hormone (LH) which in turn stimulates the leydig cells of the testes to produce testosterone. But keep in mind that due to testicular atrophy, meaning your balls have lost some mass, your testes can't just jump back to normal test production. Think of your balls as a production line. When they're atrophied, they only have 5-10 employees working so they produce less product, but as the employee count increases, so does the production workload until eventually they reach maximum production capacity, which can't be done right away. How long this process takes in your body depends on several factors, like what gear you were running, length of your cycle and how fast your body can detect and relay these signals. It's different for everyone.


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## lnvanry (Oct 18, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> You have done 700mg of tren per week
> what did you stack it with....and at what dose....


 that has to be a typo....I'm running 75mg a wk. w/ 75mg of prop.  (both for the first time)


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## gococksDJS (Oct 18, 2005)

lnvanry said:
			
		

> that has to be a typo....I'm running 75mg a wk. w/ 75mg of prop. (both for the first time)


 Your running 75mg of tren and 75mg of prop a week? This has to be a typo. Are you doing 75/75 ED?


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## jasone (Oct 19, 2005)

I have yet to run across any trainer or athlete who complained about deca dick or low test during deca cycle.   This stuff works off estrogen side-effects.  Estrogen believe it or not  helps to promote growth.  The trick is not to go crazy with doses.   I have yet to see  an athlete or trainer complain about low testerone while on a deca only cycle.  That's why it is so popular.  If the stuff is pure than I think it would be a safer first cycle for someone trying to break a plateau than test.  Test and deca both work separately and stack well together. I can't understand why deca is getting such a bad rep for a beginner first cycle.  Have any of you ever experienced or seen someone on deca as a first cycle who knew what they were doing?  I think a lot of people on this site get their info from articles and forums like this but fail to consider those who have had success with single cycles.  People like me will train hard and eat right as a lifestyle.  Getting huge quick with 3-5 stacks at once will kill the long term gains and promote unwanted sides.
What am I complaining about anyway, I'm clean and continue to make remarkable progress without steroids anyway.  There is nothing wrong with my ying yang.  They sure are tempting though.   See ya in the gym.


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## lnvanry (Oct 19, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> Your running 75mg of tren and 75mg of prop a week? This has to be a typo. Are you doing 75/75 ED?


 yes it was a typo....300mg tren/300mg of prop mixed.  I have it broken down into three injections....MonWedFri


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## gococksDJS (Oct 19, 2005)

jasone said:
			
		

> I have yet to run across any trainer or athlete who complained about deca dick or low test during deca cycle. This stuff works off estrogen side-effects. Estrogen believe it or not helps to promote growth. The trick is not to go crazy with doses. I have yet to see an athlete or trainer complain about low testerone while on a deca only cycle. That's why it is so popular. If the stuff is pure than I think it would be a safer first cycle for someone trying to break a plateau than test. Test and deca both work separately and stack well together. I can't understand why deca is getting such a bad rep for a beginner first cycle. Have any of you ever experienced or seen someone on deca as a first cycle who knew what they were doing? I think a lot of people on this site get their info from articles and forums like this but fail to consider those who have had success with single cycles. People like me will train hard and eat right as a lifestyle. Getting huge quick with 3-5 stacks at once will kill the long term gains and promote unwanted sides.
> What am I complaining about anyway, I'm clean and continue to make remarkable progress without steroids anyway. There is nothing wrong with my ying yang. They sure are tempting though.  See ya in the gym.


    Where do you dig up this assbaggery? The vets of the forums speak from personal experience, while your knowledge is limited to how much someone complains about not being able to get their dick hard while on deca. If someone has run nothing but a deca only cycle, of course they say it was successful. They haven't used the most powerful compound there is, TEST. 
 When I was in middle school, I thought handjobs were the best thing in the world, now I think they are a waste of time unless they are stacked with some sex. See what I mean?


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## jasone (Oct 20, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> Where do you dig up this assbaggery? The vets of the forums speak from personal experience, while your knowledge is limited to how much someone complains about not being able to get their dick hard while on deca. If someone has run nothing but a deca only cycle, of course they say it was successful. They haven't used the most powerful compound there is, TEST.
> When I was in middle school, I thought handjobs were the best thing in the world, now I think they are a waste of time unless they are stacked with some sex. See what I mean?





Handjobs are good and you will not contract a std?
Sex is great but you better see a doctor if you aren't careful.

So have your "vets" on the forum ever tried a deca only cycle?  Whom here have tried a deca only cycle?  Have you ever tried a deca only cycle?  Do you know anyone who has?  What personal knowledge of a deca only cycle do you have?    
Of course you having prior knowledge that deca only was a bad idea in the first place kept you from experiencing a deca only cycle.  So now you don't know from personal experience.  And you encourage conservative beginners to take a stronger substance that might have higher health risk.  

I know satisfied people with deca only cycles.
Do you know unsatisfied people from deca only cycles?

Im not upset sir.  I just want to know from your personal experience of deca only cycle because I value your opinion despite you calling me an assbaggery digger upper.  I have limited knowledge on this subject.  I like to play devils advocate and stir up debate and learn.  Deca only might not compare to test in the eyes of more extreme lifters, but from what I have seen from an advanced trainer who healed a torn rotator cuff while packing on 10 lbs of lean muscle in eight weeks with no sides, I'm impressed with deca.  It was his first in 25 years of bodybuilding.  Something went right.
What's your story?
Anyone else have stories?


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## luke69duke69 (Oct 20, 2005)

that's a great analogy...


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## gococksDJS (Oct 20, 2005)

jasone said:
			
		

> So have your "vets" on the forum ever tried a deca only cycle? Whom here have tried a deca only cycle? Have you ever tried a deca only cycle? Do you know anyone who has? What personal knowledge of a deca only cycle do you have?
> Of course you having prior knowledge that deca only was a bad idea in the first place kept you from experiencing a deca only cycle. So now you don't know from personal experience. And you encourage conservative beginners to take a stronger substance that might have higher health risk.
> 
> I know satisfied people with deca only cycles.
> ...


I guess in some ways you are right. There is no how to book for anabolic use. It's not like changing the oil in your car. Everyone reacts differently to these drugs. I am speaking from a physiological standpoint, based on the mechanisms of the human body. Deca affects your HPTA more harshly than testosterone and with less payoff. It is harder to restore your natural testosterone levels after a deca only cycle than a test only cycle due to, in part, the possibility of de and re-esterfication of deca, meaning the drug remains in your system longer, so the period between when you stop using the drug, and when your HPTA is able to recover from its "hybernation" and restore your natural testosterone levels is longer, and that is a longer period of time that your body just can not anabolically support the musclemass you have gained, meaning it is harder to keep the gains from deca than test. 

It's kind of like taking a fish out of water. Your fish is named Deca fish, and mine is Test fish. We both take our fishies out of the bowl at the same time, but I put mine back after 1 minute and you after 3 minutes. Now Test fish has been deprived of a certain necessity(testosterone in this case) for only a third of the time Deca fish has, so which one is more likely to live (sustain muscle in this case) ? Do you see what I'm saying? 

One Fish. Two Fish. Test Fish. Blue Fish


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## luke69duke69 (Oct 20, 2005)

I haven't tried it first hand but from reading some experiences on here, as well as some other sites, that deca gains are supposed to be more keepable gains.  Again not posting from experience, but from reading other's experience was why I was planning that for my own cycle.


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## jasone (Oct 20, 2005)

Anyone else have experiences with a deca only cycle.  I will keep bumping this thread.  What are good articles to address the test vs deca question.  Thanks


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## gococksDJS (Oct 20, 2005)

jasone said:
			
		

> Anyone else have experiences with a deca only cycle. I will keep bumping this thread. What are good articles to address the test vs deca question. Thanks


 The fish analogy is all you need.


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## GFR (Oct 21, 2005)

was going to end my Test/Deca cycle after 7 weeks...............but I will now do the last 2 weeks of the cycle as Deca only.....900mg per week...
I will let you know how it goes....


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## jasone (Oct 22, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> was going to end my Test/Deca cycle after 7 weeks...............but I will now do the last 2 weeks of the cycle as Deca only.....900mg per week...
> I will let you know how it goes....



Thanks,
It will be interesting to see how this affects muscle hardness.  From what I understand deca promotes a harder more dense muscle.  Might be a good idea at the end of a cycle for cutting.  Keep us posted on the post recovery if you could.  Me and gococksDJS are comparing deca fish to test fish.  My guess is that post recovery will be about the same despite the longer traces found in deca cycles.   Although traces of deca can be found in the system up to 9 months, I don't know that it is enough to affect natural test levels.  That's the debate regarding deca only cycles.  From what I hear, after 3 weeks the water sheds and you look much leaner and harder.


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## GFR (Oct 22, 2005)

jasone said:
			
		

> Thanks,
> It will be interesting to see how this affects muscle hardness.  From what I understand deca promotes a harder more dense muscle.  Might be a good idea at the end of a cycle for cutting.  Keep us posted on the post recovery if you could.  Me and gococksDJS are comparing deca fish to test fish.  My guess is that post recovery will be about the same despite the longer traces found in deca cycles.   Although traces of deca can be found in the system up to 9 months, I don't know that it is enough to affect natural test levels.  That's the debate regarding deca only cycles.  From what I hear, after 3 weeks the water sheds and you look much leaner and harder.



I listen to very few here about steroid use.....I have done all the cycles they preach against......and most of them have never done anything but the status quo........when a person here does 20-30 cycles over 10-15 years and mixes it up.......then I will listen to them.......most here have done shit.......or 2 or 3 cycles......and the samse shit every time......  

When a person here does a 2 or 4 or 6 week cycle with long esters.....
or a all EQ or Deca cycle..................and can explain why it sucked then I will listen....
So far all I hear is the excrement from the latest books of the day....
Pathetic.


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## gococksDJS (Oct 22, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I listen to very few here about steroid use.....I have done all the cycles they preach against......and most of them have never done anything but the status quo........when a person here does 20-30 cycles over 10-15 years and mixes it up.......then I will listen to them.......most here have done shit.......or 2 or 3 cycles......and the samse shit every time......
> 
> When a person here does a 2 or 4 or 6 week cycle with long esters.....
> or a all EQ or Deca cycle..................and can explain why it sucked then I will listen....
> ...


 Sorry for jumping to conclusions foreman...


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## jasone (Oct 22, 2005)

I couldn't tell if Foremans post was an insult or a supporting statement.  What I know comes from articles and trainers in the field of bodybuilding.  It all contradicts each other.  
Those I know whom have experienced success with deca only cycles say that the results come from the estrogen effects, not from dht derived from test.  Apparently estrogen is as powerful as test when it comes to making gains.  It has something to do with growth hormone I think.  The idea that deca is a long ester might be why it is viewed a successful in some circles.  The notion that only testosterone promotes growth may be why deca is getting a bad rep.  But deca which is a type of test works off of a totally different principle than test, which is estrogen.  That might explain post cycle success for those who claim it.  That extra estrogen floating around the body could be a good thing for some people.  But what do I know?  I'm just a retard.  

I just got my body fat check done last week.  I weighed 194 in July at 21% and now weigh 200 at 17% with no drugs.  Had I taken juice back in July I might have thought the success were from steroids.  Then I would have thought I were some kind of expert on deca because of my success.  Sometimes we just grow naturally.  I just wonder what It would feel like sometimes to experience what you guys have with drugs.  The stuff scares the hell out of me because of the contradicting statements found in articles and books.


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## GFR (Oct 22, 2005)

jasone said:
			
		

> I couldn't tell if Foremans post was an insult or a supporting statement.  What I know comes from articles and trainers in the field of bodybuilding.  It all contradicts each other.
> Those I know whom have experienced success with deca only cycles say that the results come from the estrogen effects, not from dht derived from test.  Apparently estrogen is as powerful as test when it comes to making gains.  It has something to do with growth hormone I think.  The idea that deca is a long ester might be why it is viewed a successful in some circles.  The notion that only testosterone promotes growth may be why deca is getting a bad rep.  But deca which is a type of test works off of a totally different principle than test, which is estrogen.  That might explain post cycle success for those who claim it.  That extra estrogen floating around the body could be a good thing for some people.  But what do I know?  I'm just a retard.
> 
> I just got my body fat check done last week.  I weighed 194 in July at 21% and now weigh 200 at 17% with no drugs.  Had I taken juice back in July I might have thought the success were from steroids.  Then I would have thought I were some kind of expert on deca because of my success.  Sometimes we just grow naturally.  I just wonder what It would feel like sometimes to experience what you guys have with drugs.  The stuff scares the hell out of me because of the contradicting statements found in articles and books.



My post was intended only to insult the kids who post all kinds of advise and yet they have never used steroids at all....or they have done 1 or 2 cycles....

I think guys like Lam, Mudge, Tough, dg806 and  Gococks.....and some others know more than I do and I always read their opinions and usually learn something...


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## gococksDJS (Oct 22, 2005)

Foreman, check your PMs


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## jasone (Nov 28, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> was going to end my Test/Deca cycle after 7 weeks...............but I will now do the last 2 weeks of the cycle as Deca only.....900mg per week...
> I will let you know how it goes....



Well, how did it go Foreman?


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## luke69duke69 (Nov 28, 2005)

Foreman, did you already run that cycle? I'm curious how running the Deca only at the end worked for ya, especially cuz of it being bass akwards from the norm.


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## ag-guys (Nov 29, 2005)

Lomac said:
			
		

> I'm just curious, why is deca a poor first cycle? Why is test better?
> 
> Also (obviously I know very little about gear) what is IMO?



too many sides I would guess

AG
www.ag-guys.com
NOVEMBER SPECIAL + WIN $5000


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## Tough Old Man (Nov 29, 2005)

jasone said:
			
		

> but from what I have seen from an advanced trainer who healed a torn rotator cuff while packing on 10 lbs of lean muscle in eight weeks with no sides, I'm impressed with deca. It was his first in 25 years of bodybuilding. Something went right.
> What's your story?
> Anyone else have stories?


You and your friends are so full of shit. Deca will retain water and this is what helps with lubing the joints. This in return helps with pain. Now I have a torn left Rotator cuff and deca didn't do shit to help it , neverless do it in 8 weeks. 

you get a torn rotator cuff and you aren't packing on no extra muscle. These tears take your strength and the amount of weight you could previously do into the shitter. Now I know first hand cause I fucking have a torn rotator cuff and I ended up losing LBM while on gear because of the tear and the amount of weight I could no longer do. So Fuck off

Tough


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## Pirate! (Nov 29, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> You have done 700mg of tren per week
> what did you stack it with....and at what dose....


I'm a bit late with my response, but I did 100 mg tren ace ED for a week in the middle of a prop/npp/proviron cycle. I stoped the npp for that week and kept my prop dose low. My libido was great, but I felt like howling at the moon sometimes. I was more aggressive in general, and the smell of my girlfriend's period blood acutally turned me on, making me more aggressive in bed. I also ended that cycle with a few weeks off prop/tren/proviron/T3/clen, but I was only doing about 75 mg tren ED at that point. I look forward to doing tren again soon.


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## pengers84 (Nov 29, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I listen to very few here about steroid use.....I have done all the cycles they preach against......and most of them have never done anything but the status quo........when a person here does 20-30 cycles over 10-15 years and mixes it up.......then I will listen to them.......most here have done shit.......or 2 or 3 cycles......and the samse shit every time......
> 
> When a person here does a 2 or 4 or 6 week cycle with long esters.....
> or a all EQ or Deca cycle..................and can explain why it sucked then I will listen....
> ...



foreman, have you ever done EQ only cycle? If so, how did it go?


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## jasone (Nov 30, 2005)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> You and your friends are so full of shit. Deca will retain water and this is what helps with lubing the joints. This in return helps with pain. Now I have a torn left Rotator cuff and deca didn't do shit to help it , neverless do it in 8 weeks.
> 
> you get a torn rotator cuff and you aren't packing on no extra muscle. These tears take your strength and the amount of weight you could previously do into the shitter. Now I know first hand cause I fucking have a torn rotator cuff and I ended up losing LBM while on gear because of the tear and the amount of weight I could no longer do. So Fuck off
> 
> Tough



Hey old fuck, have you ever heard of nitrogen retention.  Deca does this you know.  It's simple, nitrogen retention grows muscle, most steroids do this.  Some are more potent than others.  Test is not for me, I will not risk the dht side effects.  The estrogenic effects of deca are a positive thing at respectable levels without the worry of hair loss and prostate problems.  
Some retards will take deca and go 100% with a power-lifting routine while injured.  This is a bad idea for healthy lifters much less the injured.  Steroids have to be respected to be effective.  Working full intensity with an injury on gear is plain stupid, I can't believe you did this.

I really don't give a shit about your advice, life, experiences, etc, anyway.  I don't even waste my time reading your post anymore.  All you do is try to come up with ways to contradict others on this forum and insult people who propose not so popular ideas.  If you knew the people I got my advice from and the mark they have made in bodybuilding you would shit.  

You have probably been on many cycles at your age and a 400 mg dose of deca will do nothing for you.  I have never taken a drug in my life so 400 mgs a week will be well tolerated and effective.  There are those who will take 1000+ mgs a week, they might have problems with deca dick and post recovery.  I have yet to hear of this problem at under 400 mgs per wk. 

 I'm just trying to pass on what I have seen and investigate all possible arguments before making a decision.  I am also here to check on Mr. Foremans deca only experience so piss off wrinkles.


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## Tough Old Man (Dec 2, 2005)

jasone said:
			
		

> . I'm just trying to pass on what I have seen and investigate all possible arguments before making a decision. I am also here to check on Mr. Foremans deca only experience so piss off wrinkles.


And I'm passing on a fact to everyone here. Fucking test, deca, Eq, tren and all the fucking gear you can think of is not going to help a torn rotator cuff. 

Go ahead and tear one and then tell me your strength doesn't go down the shitter neverless gain 10 lbs of muscle. I'll say it again, Your full of shit. Now I know the above is not going to happen cause I'm living proof of it not something someone told me. 

You tear a cuff and your looking at surgery not anabolics. Simple as that.


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## luke69duke69 (Dec 2, 2005)

Nitrogen retention is great for a muscle that's actually attached to a tendon


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## jasone (Dec 2, 2005)

Someone here speaks as if I have a torn rotator cuff.  I'm healthy, the person I speak of made gains on his first cycle while babying his shoulder.   His total gain was 8 lbs after the water left instead of 10 by the way.  It's a steroid, thats what steroids do.  Test or winny would probably not be a wise choice for helping an injury.  
Still looking for a response from Foreman about his deca only experience.  
later.


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## GFR (Dec 2, 2005)

jasone said:
			
		

> Well, how did it go Foreman?


Did it for 8 weeks ( 400mg test and 450 Deca...T-3 50-75mcg) it went well......did get some Deca dick   but I'm old now......lost 15 lbs of fat and put on about 15 in muscle.....so not bad considering I was starving the entire cycle.....and all my lifts went up big time.


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## GFR (Dec 2, 2005)

luke69duke69 said:
			
		

> Foreman, did you already run that cycle? I'm curious how running the Deca only at the end worked for ya, especially cuz of it being bass akwards from the norm.


I only did the Deca only the last week.......and it was a bad idea.....if you know what I'm talking about


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## GFR (Dec 2, 2005)

pengers84 said:
			
		

> foreman, have you ever done EQ only cycle? If so, how did it go?


No, never


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