# Thymosin Beta 4 (TB-500) super thread + log! What?Where?When?Why?How?



## danlong (Aug 9, 2012)

The purpose of this super thread is twofolds; education and log.   Its primary purpose is to educate the community regarding Thymosin Beta 4  (TB-500) and address some of the most frequently asked questions  regarding it and peptides in the simplest fashion possible so that  anyone can understand (If technical explanations etc are warranted I  will offer that too but Id like to avoid overloading and confusing  people so KISS principle applies here  - keep it simple stupid). Its  Secondary purpose is to post and document my own experiences and results  including photos. 

Ok, lets jump right in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







*Q1: What is a peptide? Vs a protein vs a drug?* 

Essentially a peptide is a compound that contains 2 or more amino  acid monomers (simplest single amino acid building block) linked  together in what is typically referred to as peptide bond. A peptide is  usually less than 50 individual amino acid monomers whereas a Protein is  generally a much larger and more complex 3 dimensional chain. Both  peptides and proteins are bio organic compounds ie they are available  within all living things and work on an intrinsically  biological/cellular level. A drug on the other hand is a chemical  compound that can have physiological effects but only because of its  chemical influence (eg aspirin, nicotine, finasteride, dutasteride etc). 


*Q2: Are peptides used in current medical treatments? What are some common peptides?* 

Peptides have been around for a while and its popularity is ever  more increasing in medicine. Some common peptide related products are  insulin, somatostatin, cyclosporine, botox, peptide hormones eg  vasopressin, growth hormone(somatotropin), prolactin etc. 


*Q3: I am beginning to understand what a peptide is and that it  works at a biological/cellular level. But, are there any side effects  with peptides since they appear to be "natural" products produced within  our bodies?* 

Unfortunately, just like they can help us, they can also harm us.  For example, if your body is producing excess somatostatin it can  severely stunt your growth and also cause major gastrointestinal issues.  If it is producing excess growth hormone then it can result in  acromegaly, insulin resistance, joint issues etc.  
It all comes down to what peptide, how much of it, where it is being  targeted/introduced, any underlying conditions and the benefit vs risk  profile as to whether a peptide/protein is worth it or not. 



*Q4. Ok then what is Thymosin Beta 4? What is TB-500?* 

Thymosin Beta 4 is a polypeptide from the thymosin group of peptides  (43 amino monomers and that was ~50 peptides) that was originally  thought to have been a Thymus organ hormone as it was first found and  extracted from there in the 60's. Humans are found to have a few  differing types of thymosin peptides and these include Thymosin alpha 1,  Thymosin Beta 4/Y chromosome/10/15. 
Thymosin Beta 4 is the thymosin peptide shown to promote protection,  growth, repair, remodelling and healing. Studies have shown that it can  promote migration of cells, formation of blood vessels, maturation of  stem cells, activation of progenitor cells, survival of various cell  types and lowering of the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines. 
Thymosin Beta 4 is the form that is naturally produced within the human body and obviously cant be bought. 
The synthetic form of Thymosin Beta 4 that is synthesised and  manufactured is called TB-500 ie this is what can be bought, injected  etc. There is no difference in efficacy between the two.  



*Q5. This Thymosin Beta 4 obviously works for a wide range of  conditions due to its inherent properties and as documented by numerous  studies which is great. But, what evidence is there that it may work for  hair growth/regrowth?* 

The research into its hair growth/regrowth potential isn't as  substantial as some other aspects but it is clear that it does affect  hair growth/regrowth and possibly the catagen/anagen cycles too. 

Please view links for actual studies. (couldn't upload due to size) 
http://www.4shared.com/office/...es_Differentially.html 
http://www.4shared.com/office/...romotes_angiogene.html 
http://www.4shared.com/office/...nduces_hair_growt.html 
http://www.4shared.com/office/...on_of_thymosin_B4.html 
http://www.4shared.com/office/...ncreases_hair_gro.html 

Also note the contradiction presented by N Meier et al. ie that  though TB4 elongates and grows hair it also can reduce the anagen phase  (which if true may be counteracted by copper peptide and other products  that prolong anagen phase if need be). The authors do note that further  research is warranted and the limitations of their study. 



*Q6. What other peptides have been proven to grow/regrow hair?* 

The following have been shown to vastly affect hair regrowth: 
1.Insulin Growth Factor -1 (IGF-1) 
2.Basic fibroblast growth factor (bFGF) 
3.Keratinocyte growth factor (KGF) 
4.Alpha fibroblast growth factor (aFGF) 
5.Vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF)  
6.Platelet-Derived Growth Factor(PDGF)  
7.Hepatocyte Growth Factor (HGF)  
8.Macrophage Stimulating Protein(MSP) 
9.PTH(7-34) 
10.Follistatin 



*Q7. If you already know the peptides that have been proven to  regrow hair why haven't you come up with a formulation that includes a  synergistic blend of them so we can grow hair!?* 

I tried but unfortunately not many people responded with anything  concrete and my contacts required a substantially large order to bother  producing the required peptides. From memory it worked out to  approximately min 10-50g each. It would definitely work and it is no  surprise that Histogen is having such success as it purportedly contains  some of those factors such as KGF, VEGF and Follistatin but in minute  quantities as opposed higher potency and dosage of my composition. 

View Histogen related links. 
http://www.4shared.com/office/...HSC_phase_1_study.html 
http://www.4shared.com/office/...id_2012_HSC_Final.html 




*Q8. Have you run peptides? Have you run TB-500?* 

Yes I have run many peptides including TB-500. TB-500 has helped  rapidly heal an injury I had and helps me recuperate from extreme gym  workout very very quickly and whilst on it I have noticed thicker hair.  Anecdotal reports from others also have reported thicker, denser hair  with some specifically reporting hair regrowth as well as  repigmentation. 




*Q9. Ok I want some but what quantity do I need? What concentration do they come in?* 

TB-500 comes in vials containing 2mg or 5mg of lyophilised powder.  
I would recommend minimum of 4mg-10mg per week for the first month  and then maintenance dose of 2mg per week eventually reducing to perhaps  4mg a month. If you are going to give this a go I would said youd want  12 vials (2mg each) or so. Remember its free shipping for those in the  USA but factor in $25 for international purchases so make it worth the  shipping fee) 



*Q10. What else do I need besides the TB-500 vials?* 

You will need the following: 
- 1ml insulin syringes 29G or above. Needle length is upto you I  typically just go for the 12.7mm needle length as it can be also used  for other peptides and locations. 
-A solvent and I prefer Bacteriostatic Water for all my peptide  usage. However, given that 2mg vial will be used in 1 go and you won't  really need to store any reconstituted amount around for a day or more  then Sterile Injection Water will do too. 
-Sterile Alcohol pads 



*Q11. How do I reconstitute the powder? What are the specific instructions?* 

1.    Get the tops of your vial and bacteriostatic/sterile water vial off. 
2.    Using an alcohol pad, clean the top of both vials (tb-500 and water) 
3.    Using a new sterile insulin syringe, draw syringe full of  air(1ml) and inject it into the bacteriostatic vial then withdraw 1ml of  bacteriostatic water. 
4.    Inject this 1ml of bacteriostatic water into the side of the  tb-500 vial. Dont force it and don't spray it onto the lyophilised  powder but rather into side of the vial so that the powder merely  dissolves into it. 
5.    You can repeat step 3 and 4 if you are going to dilute the powder using more than 1ml eg 2ml 
6.     Check to see that all powder has dissolved and gently roll vial to ensure it has all dissolved well. DO NOT SHAKE. 
7.    If you want to equalise the pressure inside the vial you can pierce it with your insulin syringe but with no plunger in it 
8.    Withdraw appropriate amount of the now dissolved tb-500 into your  syringe, try and avoid any major bubbles by tapping side of syringe and  adjusting plunger. Ready for injection. (You can use a brand new  syringe if you want the needle to be sharp and use the one that you  pierced the rubber tops of your vials with to simply fill/load the new  syringe with) 

Video examples to help you understand: 
PT-141 Reconstitution [url]http://www.pt141.com - YouTube[/URL] 

PT-141 Reconstitution [url]http://www.pt141.com - YouTube[/URL] 
Similar concept though its for botox. 



*Q12. I am ready to inject! Now what do I do?* 

1.    Using an alcohol pad clean the scalp area that will be injected. 
2.    Decide on whether you are going to inject straight in OR if you  want to inject it at an angle into your dermis/skin? I would suggest  that the skin/dermis might be best. 
3.    Imagine a grid pattern over the area and keep the injection points uniform and slightly apart. 
4.    Pierce the skin at a low angle and push the needle tip in only a  little eg 20-30degrees from the scalp/2-3mm in and inject a small amount  eg 4-6 units in each location. 
5.    As you are injecting you should feel resistance and you should  notice the skin plump up and stay that way. This tells you that you are  inject into the skin layer. But if you want to inject straight in you  wont notice a lot of resistance. 
6.    Done. 

Stem any bleeding with a tissue. You can clean the area with another  alcohol pad if you want once you are all done. Most similar treatments  recommend derma rolling post treatment but whether you do or don't is  upto you. 
That's it. 

You can check for some videos on youtube eg PRP Injection but most  would be straight in injections rather than angled for dermal layer. You  could also use a mesotheraphy gun to make it easier and quicker over a  larger area or repeat treatments. 



*Q13. But what about a large treatment area? What is this I hear about a mesotheraphy gun?* 

Well you have three options if the treatment area in a single  session is going to be large; a-manually injecting it yourself using  above steps or b-using a mesotheraphy gun or c-using a mesotheraphy gun  with a multi-injector plate.  

A mesotheraphy gun or auto injector automates the process of  piercing and injecting to minimise wastage, pain and bleeding whilst  allowing rapid and accurate treatment. Add a multi-injector plate to it  (typically available in linear or circular pattern) and you can now  inject a whole area in one shot. Pricing can differ greatly and I have  seen these anywhere from ~$500 upto $3000 for the gun and $100-$400 for  multi-injector plates. With multi-injector plate keep the area that you  are treating in mind as these are not typically adjustable/bendable and  assumes a fairly level surface. Keys things to look for with a gun is  build quality, depth control, volume control, total volume and speed  control. Remember even with a gun you still have consumables eg  mesotheraphy needles, alcohol pads, syringe+needles to load the gun etc. 

Google it to see what they look like or youtube it if you want to see a videos of it. 



*Q14. I really need some guidance regarding injections? What types  of injections are there? Are there spreading techniques to an  injection? Any photos/videos to give me an idea?* 

Ok first off we need to establish the 3 most common injection  techniques in medicine;intramuscular, subcutaneous and intradermal. What  is the difference? The difference is how deep you are going to inject  and therefore what you are planning to inject ie muscle? fat layer?  dermis/epidermis? The length of the needle and angles used differ  depending on the technique used. 

Graphical example:  
http://juvenation.org/cfs-file...356.f0329_2D00_01.jpeg 

Video example: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...&feature=results_video 



Are there spreading techniques to an injection? Yes there are but  for the purposes of scalp injection you dont need to worry about those.  Those are more appropriate for dermal fillers etc and include linear,  fanning etc. Again you dont need to worry about these. 

For those interested this is an example of a mesotheraphy gun being used for scalp injection. 
http://www.pain-clinic.at/tl_f...Images/aesthetik/1.png 


Now what you are trying to do is referred to as intradermal  injection. Considering the scalp is a thin layer you are only aiming for  2-3mm penetration and then injecting smaller quantities in each  injection point in a grid pattern that you imagined from before. 


This photo shows an injection of corticosteroid into the scalp. 
http://globalalopeciamission.o...rtisone-injection1.png 

Notice how close to the skin it is? Notice how little penetration is  involved? Notice the angle of penetration? Notice the white plumpy  nodule forming at injection point? That is basically what you are aiming  for. 


Check this video now which shows corticosteroid injections into scalp. 
Injection Dermatologist Alopecia Areata - YouTube 

You'd want to go less deep than that depending on scalp area being  treated but notice how little she is going in? notice that it plumps up  underneath? 


One of the best videos to show you what intradermal injection would be like is 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQMjoWiruig 

(ignore Japanese language and fact that is forehead and not scalp) 
Do you notice how shallow those injections are? Do you notice how it  turns paler and plumps up? Great because thats how you would do your  injections unless you are opting for deeper/easier injections. 


1 tip that I have especially if you are nervous, worried and its  your first time; practice on the skin of the under side of your arm.  Just draw some saline water or bacteriostatic water and practice  intradermal injections on the underside of your arm(2-3mm). This way its  not your absolute first time and you have practiced injecting  intradermally at a similar depth with similar thickness. 


Thats it. You should now be empowered and ready to commence with  your injections. Dont worry if you bleed a little or anything. You might  be worried especially if its your first time but you will get better  VERY quickly and it wont phase you. 



*Q15. Where can I purchase syringes, needles, water etc?* 

Plenty of places for syringes, bacteriostatic water etc eg 
Direct Line Medical Supply 
Sterile Syringes - Buy, No Prescription Required, Syringes, Needles, Sterile Injection Water, Whatman Sterile Filters, Medical Supplies Online, Site Enhancing Oils, Syntherol, Sterile Needles. (aussie) 
Medical Supplies, Lab Supplies | Med Lab Supply 
GPZ Services 
Cheap Pinz!, Cheap Pinz, : Quality medical supplies @ the lowest prices online 
Atlantic Medical Supply Your source for medical supplies IV Supplies injectables. 
Canadian Medical Supplies 
Littmann Stethoscope, Welch Allyn, Keeler, Riester Diagnostics and Medical Supplies UK 
amazon  
ebay 




*Q16. Can I avoid injecting this? Can I put it into a cream? Can I  inject it somewhere else apart from my scalp? Would iontophoresis work  so that I can avoid injections?* 

Noting the size of the molecule ie ~5k Dalton no. Injection is the  only way that this would work effectively. Creams, lotions etc would  render it useless as peptides are sensitive to temperature, ph,  electrical and chemical variances. 

No iontophoresis would not work either (neither will tretinion etc).  The best documented result was shown on 2 patients using botox and even  then it was only 70% as effective only on the highest voltage and even  then only for 3 months. Whereas the injection was 100% effective and  lasted 6 months. Keep in mind that botox is ~900 Dalton and TB-500 is  ~5000 Dalton. 

Remember the skin can only accommodate upto 500 Daltons and the  higher the Daltons past that point the less likely it would be able to  penetrate. In the case of botox which is only 900Daltons even with a  dermal modifier ie iontophoresis it wasnt as effective nor as long  lasting as an injection. 

There was a study a while ago done using EGF (Epidermal Growth  Factor) which is ~6200Daltons using dermarollers. You could see that  dermarolling the skin (~2.5-3mm) vs control did have an effect but  nothing like the injection group. Some of the difference could have been  because of the act of dermarolling itself and some could have been  because of increased absorption. 

Nothing but an injection will work effectively. 

Yes you can inject it elsewhere eg Shoulder to help heal a shoulder injury quicker. 
You can also inject it into your muscle intramuscular. 
You can also inject it subcutaneously into the fat of your stomach area for a more systemic effect. 
But if you want the most potent effect on your scalp then youd want to inject it there. 





*Q17. I am interested! But who should I avoid? Fakes?* 

The synthetic form of Thymosin Beta 4 ie TB-500 can be bought at various websites and from various peptide producers.  

*The ones I would not recommend using as some of their other products had been independently tested and shown to be bunk are: 

Innovative Peptides  
Genx  
Precision Peptides  
Ergo Pep  
Great White Peptides* 

Whenever you buy any peptide try 2 basic tests to atleast rule out the most common forms of bunk products.  
1-    taste a small amount on the tip of your tongue and if need be use a bit more and swish it around your mouth. 
2-    Get a pregnancy kit from your local pharmacy and test your peptide. 
Lots of fake peptides are found to contain salt, mannitol and or  HCG. Salt and mannitol you can taste ie salty or sweet. HCG would  indicate pregnancy in your pregnancy test kit. 

Simpler peptides ie cheaper to produce are less likely to be faked. 

Also certain peptides have certain effects and if you are not  getting it then the product is most likely bunk. You can also carry out  some blood tests to see if the appropriate figures have changed  sufficientl 






*Q18. Where Can I buy this from? Who do you recommend?* 

I recommend: 

*www.Labpe.com|High Performance|Research Chemicals|Peptides* 

(If you appreciate my efforts and time taken to put all this  together and keep helping you guys please try and use the referrer link.  Either way, you are welcome to use the discount code) 


*I have also gone ahead and negotiated with the company to get you guys a further discount of any of their products.  

Simply purchase using code for 10% discount: samiam* 

*Extra bonus for TB-500 buy 5 get 1 free during checkout in comments note:  
samiam; buy 5 get 1 free* 

So now you can go to the bulk section and buy 10mg(5vials x 2mg) of  tb-500 which is at a cheaper price than buying 5 separate vials, apply  samiam to get further 10% off and in comments write down samiam; buy 5  get 1 free and you will get an extra 2mg free. There is no limit ie if  you buy 20mg(10vials) you get 4mg(2 vials) free, 30mg(15vials) you get  6mg(3vials) free and so on. 

I have bought many products of them and never had an issue. I have  also not read or heard of any issues on any other boards or amongst  others that have used their products. They are fast and ship worldwide  (yes including Australia, New Zealand, Germany and all other pedantic  locations) and if you don't receive they will refund/reship. Shipping  within USA free and shipping EXPRESS worldwide eg fedex/dhl $25. Paypal  accepted. 
They also test each batch of their products using HLPC and MS  ensuring highly potent products and quality. They are produced in the  USA(if that matters for you) and each product has test results published  on their site and your specific batch will includes its analysis with  it.  



HLPC and MS Report: 
http://www.4shared.com/zip/uOh...08_6.html?refurl=d1url 

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Phew! 


Log will be up soon enough. 



I will try to answer any relevant questions so long as I haven't  already answered them in the above 14 Questions. PLEASE READ CAREFULLY. 


Please do not start arguments or debate pedantic points or generally start crap here.


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## sovocool (Aug 12, 2012)

The info is very detailed,this is goin' to be informative for me.


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## pokrzywaixv (Aug 16, 2012)

The thread is  very comprehensive.great!


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## samiams (Aug 25, 2012)

it should be and keeps getting updated. This is my damned work stolen from another forum without so much as a courteous reference


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