# Are fruits and veggies necessary for optimal health?



## Stewart14 (Oct 3, 2008)

Let's say you eat a clean diet with good ratios of carbs, proteins and fats, and take a multi vitamin every day.  By clean I mean you eat brown rice, sweet potatoes, chicken, lean beef, turkey, cheerios, eggs, milk, etc.  Are you getting all you need from these foods and the multi, or are you missing something?

I understand you eat veggies and fruits to get the vitamins from them, as well as being assured you are eating foods that are "good for you", but let's say you don't really eat them daily, does the vitamin assure you get what you need, vitamin wise?


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## Skib (Oct 3, 2008)

lmao! cheerios?


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## IronAddict (Oct 3, 2008)

You'll get more vitamins from the actual foods, then you would from the supps. The supps are just to add what you may be missing. A well balanced diet is your best bet.


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## fufu (Oct 3, 2008)

Fiber is a big reason.


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## Ben dur (Oct 3, 2008)

i started eating more fruit, and not counting the cals...
(banana, kiwi, mango, peach, apple)-my favs-
still consuming maint elsewhere


i crushed all of my personal records in a matter of a couple weeks
and my body composition improved


there is no replacement


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## KelJu (Oct 3, 2008)

Veggies are necessary for me, mainly for the health of my butthole. The fiber makes keeps my poo the right consistency so that I onyl have to go once or twice a day. 

Also, there are lots of vitamins and minerals that you get from fresh stemmed veggies that you can't get in supps.


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## Ben dur (Oct 3, 2008)

agreed

steamed veggies/garden salad with at least 3 meals a day for me


and i generally dont count these cals either


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## AKIRA (Oct 3, 2008)

I eat bananas, blueberries, strawberries, watermelon, meh..thats about it.

Veggies?  Shit, broccoli is easy, but asparagus still puts up a fight.  Spinach was mentioned to me.  It was suggested to replace lettuce in my subs with fresh spinach leaves.   Dont know what this will do, so some insight is needed.

What about cooked spinach?


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## Ben dur (Oct 3, 2008)

do the nutritional facts of raw veggies change after they are steamed?
should i be counting these calories?

if so this throws a real wrench at me, i dont even measure them... i just indulge


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## JailHouse (Oct 3, 2008)

AKIRA said:


> I eat bananas, blueberries, strawberries, watermelon, meh..thats about it.
> 
> Veggies?  Shit, broccoli is easy, but asparagus still puts up a fight.  Spinach was mentioned to me.  *It was suggested to replace lettuce in my subs with fresh spinach leaves*.   Dont know what this will do, so some insight is needed.
> 
> What about cooked spinach?



I usually eat a turkey sandwich at work and I use spinach in it.  Its a easy way to get in some veggies while your at work and it taste about the same as lettuce.


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## KelJu (Oct 3, 2008)

AKIRA said:


> I eat bananas, blueberries, strawberries, watermelon, meh..thats about it.
> 
> Veggies?  Shit, broccoli is easy, but asparagus still puts up a fight.  Spinach was mentioned to me.  It was suggested to replace lettuce in my subs with fresh spinach leaves.   Dont know what this will do, so some insight is needed.
> 
> What about cooked spinach?



You have to steam asparagus for a long time. It helps.


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## JailHouse (Oct 3, 2008)

KelJu said:


> You have to steam asparagus for a long time. It helps.



Why not grill it?


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## KelJu (Oct 3, 2008)

JailHouse said:


> Why not grill it?



I don't have a grill right now.


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## P-funk (Oct 3, 2008)

I think that vegetables and fruit are vital to a diet.  they give us vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients/antioxidants and fiber.  they are extremely nutritious and i think you are missing out by not incorporating them.


> lmao! cheerios?



What the hell is wrong with cheerios?  They aren't awful and you can easily figure them into your diet.  I hate bodybuilding voodo.


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## Skib (Oct 4, 2008)

P-funk said:


> What the hell is wrong with cheerios?  They aren't awful and you can easily figure them into your diet.  I hate bodybuilding voodo.



haha i know, believe me, if there's anyone who loves their cereal, it's me...

it just looked funny in that list of food... totally random...


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## x superman (Oct 5, 2008)

No matter how many vitamines and fibers you are taking in your diet I think that fruit and veggies are essential for healthy diet.


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## VanessaNicole (Oct 5, 2008)

Stewart20 said:


> Let's say you eat a clean diet with good ratios of carbs, proteins and fats, and take a multi vitamin every day.  By clean I mean you eat brown rice, sweet potatoes, chicken, lean beef, turkey, cheerios, eggs, milk, etc.  Are you getting all you need from these foods and the multi, or are you missing something?
> 
> I understand you eat veggies and fruits to get the vitamins from them, as well as being assured you are eating foods that are "good for you", but let's say you don't really eat them daily, does the vitamin assure you get what you need, vitamin wise?



Yes.

And vitamins are not the only thing your body needs from fruit and vegetables.

I don't even have the energy to explain this at the moment. 

You will eventually be all kind of sick if you do not consume adequate fruit and vegetables.

That is all.


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## seems (Oct 6, 2008)

Thats one good question. Yeah I think natural foods are most effective than supplements.


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## KentDog (Oct 6, 2008)

Keeping this comment separate from the "real food over supplements" argument in which we all agree real food > supplements, I do not feel you need to consume fruits and veggies daily to be in spectacular health. Often times when I budget myself for food costwise, I don't eat a lot of fruits or veggies.

I am thinking back to a few years ago when I was in the best shape of my life, and I do not recall eating hardly any vegatables but did eat the occassional apple or pear. I am getting back into pretty good shape now and I rarely eat fruits or vegetables.

Care to explain why fruits and vegetables are so "essential" or "vital" to a healthy diet? And how much are we talking about? If I rarely eat fruits or vegetables, are you saying that my diet is not "healthy?" I can run a 7-minute mile with no problem and box five three-minute rounds without gassing out. I have kept my strength up in the gym with no decline while cutting/maintaining. I feel very healthy.


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## Gazhole (Oct 7, 2008)

AKIRA said:


> What about cooked spinach?


 
Cooked spinach is one of my favourite additions to a lot of meals. If im sauteing (spell?) some potatoes ill throw in some spinach to give it a bit of colour and flavour. Only takes like 2 minutes to wilt, and you're away.

But yeah, i dont think i could go a day without fruit and veg. Maybe one of the other, but not both. Just because i love them, any health bonuses are...well, bonuses.

Im not taking a multivit atm either, so for the time being i need them for that aswell.


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## FishOrCutBait (Oct 7, 2008)

KentDog said:


> Keeping this comment separate from the "real food over supplements" argument in which we all agree real food > supplements, I do not feel you need to consume fruits and veggies daily to be in spectacular health. Often times when I budget myself for food costwise, I don't eat a lot of fruits or veggies.
> 
> I am thinking back to a few years ago when I was in the best shape of my life, and I do not recall eating hardly any vegatables but did eat the occassional apple or pear. I am getting back into pretty good shape now and I rarely eat fruits or vegetables.
> 
> Care to explain why fruits and vegetables are so "essential" or "vital" to a healthy diet? And how much are we talking about? If I rarely eat fruits or vegetables, are you saying that my diet is not "healthy?" I can run a 7-minute mile with no problem and box five three-minute rounds without gassing out. I have kept my strength up in the gym with no decline while cutting/maintaining. I feel very healthy.



I think its mostly for the long term health benefits, i.e. the stuff from the phytonutrients, and from the dietary supplementation they give you, like the fiber and the different vitamins.

I take a fiber supplement and a great multi, haha. just starting having a cup of mixed frozen berries in my pre-bed shake though and mmmmmm.

apples are pretty easy too.


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## Stewart14 (Oct 7, 2008)

KentDog said:


> Keeping this comment separate from the "real food over supplements" argument in which we all agree real food > supplements, I do not feel you need to consume fruits and veggies daily to be in spectacular health. Often times when I budget myself for food costwise, I don't eat a lot of fruits or veggies.
> 
> I am thinking back to a few years ago when I was in the best shape of my life, and I do not recall eating hardly any vegatables but did eat the occassional apple or pear. I am getting back into pretty good shape now and I rarely eat fruits or vegetables.
> 
> Care to explain why fruits and vegetables are so "essential" or "vital" to a healthy diet? And how much are we talking about? If I rarely eat fruits or vegetables, are you saying that my diet is not "healthy?" I can run a 7-minute mile with no problem and box five three-minute rounds without gassing out. I have kept my strength up in the gym with no decline while cutting/maintaining. I feel very healthy.



Thank you for adding this.  this is pretty much what I wanted to say in creating this post.  I mean, I am not entirely pleased with my diet not containing much of the fruit and veggie group, but on the whole, my diet is generally real good in terms of clean foods.  I am more concerned with getting proper amounts of good carbs, proteins, and good fats, as opposed to where they come from.  

I can see how veggies can be a tool if you are looking to cut or suppress appetite, but as far as the nutrients go, yes I am sure eating veggies and fruits to get the vitamins from them is better than taking a vitamin, but still, how much and how many veggies would you really need to eat to get the same amounts of each nutrient in a good multi vitamin?


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## Merkaba (Oct 11, 2008)

Stewart20 said:


> Thank you for adding this.  this is pretty much what I wanted to say in creating this post.  I mean, I am not entirely pleased with my diet not containing much of the fruit and veggie group, but on the whole, my diet is generally real good in terms of clean foods.  I am more concerned with getting proper amounts of good carbs, proteins, and good fats, as opposed to where they come from.
> 
> I can see how veggies can be a tool if you are looking to cut or suppress appetite, but as far as the nutrients go, yes I am sure eating veggies and fruits to get the vitamins from them is better than taking a vitamin, but still, how much and how many veggies would you really need to eat to get the same amounts of each nutrient in a good multi vitamin?


Well for one, how much of that rock of a vitamin is your body absorbing?
Plus there are other things like phytonutrients and enzymes that youre getting, not to mention the fiber.  You might feel great.  
But how do you know youre not harboring a growing tumor in your gut or another impending disease?  We all know that veggies and fruits have way more benefits than Centrum or GNC vitamins



AKIRA said:


> I eat bananas, blueberries, strawberries, watermelon, meh..thats about it.
> 
> Veggies?  Shit, broccoli is easy, but asparagus still puts up a fight.  Spinach was mentioned to me.  It was suggested to replace lettuce in my subs with fresh spinach leaves.   Dont know what this will do, so some insight is needed.
> 
> What about cooked spinach?



Well because one spinach leaf has about twice the nutritional value of a head iceberg lettuce.  (not literally but iceberg has little nutrition)


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## Stewart14 (Oct 11, 2008)

Merkaba said:


> Well for one, how much of that rock of a vitamin is your body absorbing?
> Plus there are other things like phytonutrients and enzymes that youre getting, not to mention the fiber.  You might feel great.
> But how do you know youre not harboring a growing tumor in your gut or another impending disease?  We all know that veggies and fruits have way more benefits than Centrum or GNC vitamins
> 
> ...



I was talking about having a clean diet that lacks large amounts of veggies.  I was not referring to someone who eats mcdonalds every day and no veggies.  I dont think the lack of veggies in my diet would be a contributing cause to a tumor, come on now.  I am sure there are plenty of fanatics out there who all they eat are veggies and fruit and they get sick too.  I dont think my cheerios and turkey chili is going to kill me.

no one really touched on exactly how much nutrition are in fruits and veggies.  For example, how many oranges would you need to eat to get the same amount of vitamin c in one 1000 mg capsule?  Or how many carrots would you need to eat to get the amount of vitamin a in a multi vitamin?  i know i am sure almost everyone on this board takes a good multi vitamin, so besides being just real good for you, what is the difference between a snack of carrots or a snack of oatmeal?

and what is a phytonutrient?


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## fufu (Oct 12, 2008)

Regardless of fruit being nessecary for optimal health, don't you like eating it anyway? I personally love fruit. Would you see it as a task to consume it?


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## Stewart14 (Oct 13, 2008)

fufu said:


> Regardless of fruit being nessecary for optimal health, don't you like eating it anyway? I personally love fruit. Would you see it as a task to consume it?



Oh I love fruit, don't get me wrong.  I think my original point was to ask if it is necessary to have x amount of fruit and vegetables daily to have optimum health benefits, or can you go a couple days without them, then have some here and there, etc.  I just find it expensive to find good fruit around me, and now that my son is starting to eat stuff like this too, it gets to be a lot, and if I could only serve one of us, he is getting the good stuff.

I am trying to get better, I am starting to incorporate at least one piece of fruit and some type of vegetable daily.  Unfortunately, my selection for vegetables right now consists of potatoes, sweet potatoes, corn and beans.  Fruit is an apple or banana.

A good start?


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## Will Brink (Oct 13, 2008)

Stewart20 said:


> , does the vitamin assure you get what you need, vitamin wise?



No.


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## Ben dur (Oct 13, 2008)

im still pretty lost


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## steelhorse (Oct 13, 2008)

yes I think veggys are important to keep your system regular


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## BabySteps (Oct 16, 2008)

*Not so fast...*



KentDog said:


> Keeping this comment separate from the "real food over supplements" argument in which we all agree real food > supplements, I do not feel you need to consume fruits and veggies daily to be in spectacular health. Often times when I budget myself for food costwise, I don't eat a lot of fruits or veggies.
> 
> I am thinking back to a few years ago when I was in the best shape of my life, and I do not recall eating hardly any vegatables but did eat the occassional apple or pear. I am getting back into pretty good shape now and I rarely eat fruits or vegetables.
> 
> Care to explain why fruits and vegetables are so "essential" or "vital" to a healthy diet? And how much are we talking about? If I rarely eat fruits or vegetables, are you saying that my diet is not "healthy?" I can run a 7-minute mile with no problem and box five three-minute rounds without gassing out. I have kept my strength up in the gym with no decline while cutting/maintaining. I feel very healthy.



Understood, but...

First of all, how old are you? Hell, anyone can be in great shape when they're young enough. How many of us could eat anything we wanted and never gain a pound and have endless energy when we were young?

Second, just because you feel OK today and have energy doesn't mean that lack of fruits and vegetables will not have a negative impact on your body down the road. Like it or not, fruits and vegies have been proven over and over to repair cells, fight disease, etc. Why do you think most diseases appear in middle age? Years of neglecting to eat right and exercise. Just a thought...


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## Merkaba (Oct 16, 2008)

Stewart20 said:


> Oh I love fruit, don't get me wrong.  I think my original point was to ask if it is necessary to have x amount of fruit and vegetables daily to have optimum health benefits, or can you go a couple days without them, then have some here and there, etc.  I just find it expensive to find good fruit around me, and now that my son is starting to eat stuff like this too, it gets to be a lot, and if I could only serve one of us, he is getting the good stuff.
> 
> I am trying to get better, I am starting to incorporate at least one piece of fruit and some type of vegetable daily.  Unfortunately, my selection for vegetables right now consists of potatoes, sweet potatoes, corn and beans.  Fruit is an apple or banana.
> 
> A good start?



Phytonutrients

I think this is one of those situations that doesnt have an answer.  Whats the question is there a certain amount of fruits and veggies we should eat?  I don't think we can eat enough veggies.  But mentioning cost as a deterrant sheds more light on the situation.  Potatoes corn and beans is alot of starch in my yes...but better than non at all indeed.  I think one could write a book on broccoli and spinach and other leafy veggies though.  If you read about them you will want to include them in every meal.  I agree it does get expensive and you just have to do what you can.  I get a big bag of broccoli florets from sams for like 5 bucks.  The equivalent would cost me 20 bucks in the supermarket.  I'm actually eating a bowl of cooked broccoli now!  I dont eat veggies with every meal but I really try nowadays.  My grandad just got a colostomy bag yesterday due to a rectal cancerous mass resulting in removal of part of his rectum.  I don't have specific statistics but I've read how digestive cancers are more prevalent.  Hey, will shoving copious amounts of fibrous greens keep me from getting the same, who knows, but I know I've tried one aspect of prevention, among others.  

And of course with kids its taste.  try various recipes and veggies to try to get them to eat more stuff. I used to hate broccoli and okra.  Now I don't love broccoli but I can eat it and almost ignore it, but okra I can eat by the pound.  My girlfriends little three year old niece somehow loves "bocky" and "zukenny".    If thats your kid in the avatar my girlfriend and i were talking about how cute he is.


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## KentDog (Oct 16, 2008)

BabySteps said:


> Understood, but...
> 
> First of all, how old are you? Hell, anyone can be in great shape when they're young enough. How many of us could eat anything we wanted and never gain a pound and have endless energy when we were young?
> 
> Second, just because you feel OK today and have energy doesn't mean that lack of fruits and vegetables will not have a negative impact on your body down the road. Like it or not, fruits and vegies have been proven over and over to repair cells, fight disease, etc. Why do you think most diseases appear in middle age? Years of neglecting to eat right and exercise. Just a thought...


Good points and something to think about. Though I'm not one of those who can eat whatever I wanted and not gain a pound, I do agree that there is extensive research out there supporting various health benefits of consuming fruits and vegetables.

To answer your question, I'm 23. The main thing I question is similar to what I think Stewart is asking, and that is whether the same health benefits of fruits and veggies can be obtained from a clean diet w/ good amounts of p/c/f along with basic supplement usage (multivitamin, fish oils, and whey protein) without eating fruits and vegetables regularly. I don't believe there are studies out there that nail the question of optimal amount (afterall, they need to be balanced in your diet as well; you add in calories from fruits and veggies and you must subtract from other foods, with the exception of no calories veggies).


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## KentDog (Oct 16, 2008)

Merkaba said:


> Phytonutrients
> 
> I think this is one of those situations that doesnt have an answer.  Whats the question is there a certain amount of fruits and veggies we should eat?  I don't think we can eat enough veggies.  But mentioning cost as a deterrant sheds more light on the situation.  Potatoes corn and beans is alot of starch in my yes...but better than non at all indeed.  I think one could write a book on broccoli and spinach and other leafy veggies though.  If you read about them you will want to include them in every meal.  I agree it does get expensive and you just have to do what you can.  I get a big bag of broccoli florets from sams for like 5 bucks.  The equivalent would cost me 20 bucks in the supermarket.  I'm actually eating a bowl of cooked broccoli now!  I dont eat veggies with every meal but I really try nowadays.  My grandad just got a colostomy bag yesterday due to a rectal cancerous mass resulting in removal of part of his rectum.  I don't have specific statistics but I've read how digestive cancers are more prevalent.  Hey, will shoving copious amounts of fibrous greens keep me from getting the same, who knows, but I know I've tried one aspect of prevention, among others.


Great post.


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## Merkaba (Oct 16, 2008)

KentDog said:


> Good points and something to think about. Though I'm not one of those who can eat whatever I wanted and not gain a pound, I do agree that there is extensive research out there supporting various health benefits of consuming fruits and vegetables.
> 
> To answer your question, I'm 23. The main thing I question is similar to what I think Stewart is asking, and that is whether the same health benefits of fruits and veggies can be obtained from a clean diet w/ good amounts of p/c/f along with basic supplement usage (multivitamin, fish oils, and whey protein) without eating fruits and vegetables regularly. I don't believe there are studies out there that nail the question of optimal amount (afterall, they need to be balanced in your diet as well; you add in calories from fruits and veggies and you must subtract from other foods, with the exception of no calories veggies).




Remember we are made to be VERY active and carry decent amounts of fat.  I think most would agree.  Enough to where a few hundred calories a day in fruits would be a non issue.  Plus I would be willing to bet that you could find a ton of studies touting the benefits of the fiber alone in veggies and fruits.  Gotta have something helping to move the crap out of your system.  How many studies talk about the crap that sits in your digestive walls.  Gotta have that fiber!


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## Ben dur (Oct 16, 2008)

like i said before

adding in fruit to my maint. diet did nothing to my body fat, if not lower it

it did however give me a substantially greater amount of energy and drive in and out of the gym

the result was a more viperous and active Ben, burning more calories daily, and lifting more weight in the gym


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## Witchblade (Oct 17, 2008)

Fruits and veggies are still calories. Period. The thermogenic effect is often negligible.


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## mike1989 (Oct 17, 2008)

ofcourse the fruits and vegetables are important. when you are on a diet the vegetables and fruits provide you vitamins and minerals.


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## BabySteps (Oct 17, 2008)

KentDog said:


> Good points and something to think about. Though I'm not one of those who can eat whatever I wanted and not gain a pound, I do agree that there is extensive research out there supporting various health benefits of consuming fruits and vegetables.
> 
> To answer your question, I'm 23. The main thing I question is similar to what I think Stewart is asking, and that is whether the same health benefits of fruits and veggies can be obtained from a clean diet w/ good amounts of p/c/f along with basic supplement usage (multivitamin, fish oils, and whey protein) without eating fruits and vegetables regularly. I don't believe there are studies out there that nail the question of optimal amount (afterall, they need to be balanced in your diet as well; you add in calories from fruits and veggies and you must subtract from other foods, with the exception of no calories veggies).




Oh to be 23 again...  I guess my confusion is this: a clean diet is one that includes a substantial amount of fruits and vegies in addition to lean meats, whole grains and low fat dairy. I do understand your question, though, and I think you have a valid question. With the advances in supplements to include probiotics and phytonutrients, who's to say if we really need to eat lots of fruit and vegies? That would be an interesting study. I eat clean, but it's hard for me to get in the amount of protein I need AND eat the fruits and vegies on top of it--I'm just too full or I don't have the calories to spare. To remedy this, I eat grapes with every meal (not a lot, though), I have tomatoes and a variety of nuts as a snack (which I found that nuts have a lots of the same healthful benefits as fruits/vegies), and I have at least one serving of vegies with my lean protein for dinner. All in all, I think we'd all be interested in knowing the answer to this question. I'll keep researching this one, as I've always been interested in nutrition. I'll keep you posted!


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## mike1989 (Oct 17, 2008)

yes they are very important to provide minerals and vitamins to your body.


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## marcuz29 (Oct 17, 2008)

I am thankful to find this post. Got lots of knowledge and ideas from this thread.


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## Stewart14 (Oct 17, 2008)

Merkaba said:


> Phytonutrients
> 
> I think this is one of those situations that doesnt have an answer.  Whats the question is there a certain amount of fruits and veggies we should eat?  I don't think we can eat enough veggies.  But mentioning cost as a deterrant sheds more light on the situation.  Potatoes corn and beans is alot of starch in my yes...but better than non at all indeed.  I think one could write a book on broccoli and spinach and other leafy veggies though.  If you read about them you will want to include them in every meal.  I agree it does get expensive and you just have to do what you can.  I get a big bag of broccoli florets from sams for like 5 bucks.  The equivalent would cost me 20 bucks in the supermarket.  I'm actually eating a bowl of cooked broccoli now!  I dont eat veggies with every meal but I really try nowadays.  My grandad just got a colostomy bag yesterday due to a rectal cancerous mass resulting in removal of part of his rectum.  I don't have specific statistics but I've read how digestive cancers are more prevalent.  Hey, will shoving copious amounts of fibrous greens keep me from getting the same, who knows, but I know I've tried one aspect of prevention, among others.
> 
> And of course with kids its taste.  try various recipes and veggies to try to get them to eat more stuff. I used to hate broccoli and okra.  Now I don't love broccoli but I can eat it and almost ignore it, but okra I can eat by the pound.  My girlfriends little three year old niece somehow loves "bocky" and "zukenny".    If thats your kid in the avatar my girlfriend and i were talking about how cute he is.



Thanks, this was a good post.

and yes, that is my son, thanks for the compliment   The boy can eat 800 bananas a day, but not touch anything else in the fruit or veggie department


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## Merkaba (Oct 17, 2008)

haha.....I like bananas but not that much.  When I was in college I would get them from the lunch bar and eat two or three a day religiously.  I swear 99% of my farts never smelt!  i think it had something to do with the bananas.  Cause after I graduated and stopped eating them as much it was back to the same old same old killer gas.


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## Ben dur (Oct 18, 2008)

bananas are my #1 favorite food


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## BabySteps (Oct 20, 2008)

*Bananas...*



Merkaba said:


> haha.....I like bananas but not that much.  When I was in college I would get them from the lunch bar and eat two or three a day religiously.  I swear 99% of my farts never smelt!  i think it had something to do with the bananas.  Cause after I graduated and stopped eating them as much it was back to the same old same old killer gas.



You crack me up!!!


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## min0 lee (Oct 20, 2008)

Merkaba said:


> haha.....I like bananas but not that much.  When I was in college I would get them from the lunch bar and eat two or three a day religiously.  I swear 99% of my farts never smelt!  i think it had something to do with the bananas.  Cause after I graduated and stopped eating them as much it was back to the same old same old killer gas.



Bananas do the same for me also..


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## Merkaba (Oct 20, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> Bananas do the same for me also..



seriously?


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## min0 lee (Oct 20, 2008)

Yes.


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## mike1989 (Oct 21, 2008)

i bananas too


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## FishOrCutBait (Oct 21, 2008)

mike1989 said:


> i bananas too


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