# Body parts



## leg_press (May 31, 2006)

I've got good definition and side of my front delt and middle delt, but what exercises can I use to develop the rear delt. I need help with my chest/ tri's/bi/back too


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## leg_press (May 31, 2006)

leg_press said:
			
		

> I've got good definition and *size* of my front delt and middle delt, but what exercises can I use to develop the rear delt. I need help with my chest/ tri's/bi/back too



Sorry guys cant type to save my life today


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## Yanick (May 31, 2006)

list your training program at this moment...all of it.


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## leg_press (May 31, 2006)

Monday
Chest/ Shoulders/ Triceps

Barbell bench press 12/10/8 reps bar + 5kgs/10kgs/15kgs
Dumbell Bench press: 12/10/8 reps, 7.5kgs/10kgs/12.5kgs
Pec Dec: 12/10/8 reps 5kgs/10kgs/15kgs
Arnold Press: 12/10/8 reps. 7.5kgs/10kgs/12.5kgs
Seated shoulder press: 12/10/8 reps: same weight as arnold press
Up right row ( using weight stack) 12/10/8 reps 5kgs, 10kgs, 15kgs
Rope pull down: 12/10/8 reps: 5kgs, 7.5kgs, 10 kgs
dumbell behind the neck tricep extension:12/10/8 reps 7.5kgs/10kgs/12.5 kgs

Wednesday
Back/ biceps
Seated row : 12/10/8 reps: 5kgs 7.5 kgs 10 kgs
Lat pulldown: 12/10/8 reps 25kgs/30kgs/35kgs
Shrugs: 12/10/8 reps 5kgs/7.5kgs/10kgs
Seated dumbell curls 12/10/8 reps 7.5kgs 10kgs 12.5kgs
Cable curls (straight bar) 12/10/8 reps 5kgs 10kgs 15kgs 

Friday
Legs/ Abs
Legpress/ Squat 12/10/8 reps 5kgs/10kgs/15kgs
Leg extension: (same weight and reps) 
Leg curl: (same weight and reps)
Sit ups 3x12 reps ( body weight)
Hangin leg raises 3x12 reps( body weight)

Thing that about covers it


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## P-funk (May 31, 2006)

common sense would lead us to the conclusion that you are doing twice as much pushing then you are pulling....no shit your rear delts suck.


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## leg_press (May 31, 2006)

I've never understood the whole pull/push thing, explanation please?


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## P-funk (May 31, 2006)

leg_press said:
			
		

> I've never understood the whole pull/push thing, explanation please?




in order to help promote good joint integrity, we like to try and balance out our push movements with our pull movements.  Main reason being that most people either already are or end up becoming very anterior dominant, since this is our way of life.  The over dominant anterior side can present many problems not only in the shoulder but in the knee as well (so balance down there is also recommended).

So, if I were balancing a program it would look something like:

bench press- 3 sets x 10 reps
overhead press- 3x10
DB row- 3x10
chin up- 3x10

see the pattern there?


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## leg_press (May 31, 2006)

So do one working where u push weight away from u? (in bench press), one where u pull the weight to you (ie seated row) and one workout for ur lower body?


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## P-funk (May 31, 2006)

well, esentiall, that is the workout you have up there (push/pull/legs). since the push muscles are chest, shoulders, tri and the pulls are back and bi.

but, you only have two real pulling movements (row and pulldown) compared to your insane amount of pressing movements.  Heck, you have as many bicep exercises (2) as you do pulling movements.  See the problem?  You need more back work.  more balance.


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## leg_press (May 31, 2006)

Now you have completely lost me

Could you post a push/pull/leg three day split, cus I thought I understood what u mean but obviously I dont.


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## P-funk (May 31, 2006)

cowpimp and i have some examples here.

also check the stickies.


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## Yanick (May 31, 2006)

anything where you 'push' or 'press' the weight forward is considered a push ie bench, oh presses etc.

anything where you pull the weight back is a pull ie rows, chins, shrugs etc.

if it helps you the muscles that 'push' are chest, shoulders, tri's and the muscles that 'pull' are the lats, traps, bi's. it is a better idea to think of training in terms of movements instead of muscles because your body works in movements not muscles eg. your body doesn't think of working your quads when you squat, instead it recruits all appropriate musculature at the appropriate time to extend your hips and knees as you are coming out of hole.


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## leg_press (May 31, 2006)

Thanks, good workout P-Funk, how do you front squat and I suck @ skull crushers


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## P-funk (May 31, 2006)

leg_press said:
			
		

> Thanks, good workout P-Funk, how do you front squat and I suck @ skull crushers




ditch the skulls for someother extenstion movement then...DB overheads, pressdown, etc....

chect out exrx.net for a front squat video.


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## leg_press (May 31, 2006)

Can u not do back squat?


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## P-funk (May 31, 2006)

leg_press said:
			
		

> Can u not do back squat?




which program are you reffering too exactly?  please post it.


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## mike456 (May 31, 2006)

Monday
Chest/ Shoulders/ Triceps

Barbell bench press 12/10/8 reps bar + 5kgs/10kgs/15kgs
Dumbell Incline Bench press: 12/10/8 reps, 7.5kgs/10kgs/12.5kgs
Seated shoulder press: 12/10/8 reps: same weight as arnold press
Lateral Raises: 3 sets
Rope triceps pull down: 12/10/8 reps: 5kgs, 7.5kgs, 10 kgs
DB Flyes: 12/10/8 reps 5kgs/10kgs/15kgs

Wednesday
Back/ biceps
BB Bent over row: 3 sets
Seated row : 12/10/8 reps: 5kgs 7.5 kgs 10 kgs
Lat pulldown: 12/10/8 reps 25kgs/30kgs/35kgs
Shrugs: 3 sets
BB curls: 3 sets
Rear lateral raises(rear delts):3 sets

Friday
Legs/ Abs
Squat: 3 sets
Stiff legged deadlifts: 3 sets
Leg Press: 3 sets
Glute-Ham raises: 3 sets
Sit ups 3x12 reps ( body weight)


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## leg_press (May 31, 2006)

workout A
front squat
DB bench press
step up
bent over BB row
skull crushers

workout B
overhead press
deadlift
chin ups
lunges
biceps curl

three days a week

week1
day1- A
day2- B
day3- A

week2
day1-B
day2-A
day3-B

loading-

day1- 4x5 RI= 120sec
day2- 3x12 RI= 60sec
day3- 4x8 RI= 90sec
< This 1


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## P-funk (May 31, 2006)

yea, you can back squat instead of front squat on that one.


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## P-funk (May 31, 2006)

mike456 said:
			
		

> Monday
> Chest/ Shoulders/ Triceps
> 
> Barbell bench press 12/10/8 reps bar + 5kgs/10kgs/15kgs
> ...




why pyramid every set?

why do you have the weight listed?

why do you only list "3 sets" and not give rep ranges?


If you don't know what you are talking about then don't post anything.


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## mike456 (May 31, 2006)

those were the reps/weights he had, I didnt look at them I just changed the exercises, my fault


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## leg_press (May 31, 2006)

Thanks mike that helped alot. Makes alot of sense


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## leg_press (Jun 1, 2006)

How about this 1?:


(1) Dumbbell Chest Press (Swiss ball and dumbbells required): 

While holding a pair of dumbbells, get into a table-top position with chest up and back to the floor, and with head resting on a Swiss ball and knees bent (imagine doing bench presses without the bench but using your core muscles and feet to stabilize your weight distribution). 
Keep hips up and shoulder blades pulled down and back together. 
Perform 12 reps (pick a weight so the 12th rep is hard); 3 seconds up and 3 seconds down. 
(2) Push-ups: 

Do immediately after chest press. 
Keep head in line with the spine and support lower back by pulling belly button into the spine. 
Can be done from knees or toes. 
Perform 25 reps (take a break if you have to, but finish 25). 
Rest 1 minute and repeat Dumbbell Press and Push-ups for 3 sets. 
(3) Lat Pull Downs (modular lat pulldown machine required): 

With palms facing away from the body, grip hands on the bend of the bar. 
Pull bar down below chin, keeping shoulder blades pulled down and together. 
Perform 12 reps; 3 seconds down and 3 seconds up. 
(4) External Shoulder Rotations (tubing required): 

Do immediately after Lat Pull Downs . 
Use tubing with palms facing up and elbows in tight to body. 
Stretch out band, holding elbows at 90 degrees, thumbs outward. 
Perform 20 reps; 2 seconds out and 2 seconds back. 
Rest 1 minute and repeat Lat Pulls and External Shoulder Rotations for 3 sets. 
(5) Cable Side Raise (adjustable cable pulley machine required): 

Grip a cable in front of the body with one arm, with a slight bend in the elbow. 
Hold posture, keep shoulder blades down and back. 
Perform 12 reps; 3 seconds down and 3 seconds up. 
Do other arm immediately. 
(6) Straight Bar Curl (free-standing bar required): 

Grab bar shoulder-width apart and curl, holding a soft knee bend and without arching back. 
Perform 12 reps; 3 seconds up and 3 seconds down. 
(7) Close Grip Bar Push-up (free-standing bar and squat rack required): 

Do immediately after Straight Bar Curl. 
In a squat rack, set up bar at waist height. 
Perform a push-up with elbows in tight. Do 12 reps; 5 seconds down and 5 seconds up. 
Rest 1 minute. Repeat Straight Bar Curls and Close Grip Bar Push-ups for 3 sets. 
Day 2 

(1) Leg Squat: 

Slowly lower the body on one leg, bringing the hips back so the front knee does not go beyond the toes and squat until upper thigh is parallel to the ground. 
Perform 12 reps on each leg; 3 seconds up and 3 seconds down. 
Rest 1 minute and repeat for 3 sets. 
(2) Balance Board Lunge (extreme or round board is required): 

Place one foot centred on balance board, back foot on toes behind in a lunge. 
Slowly bend both back and front knees into a lunge until front thigh is parallel to the ground. 
Perform 12 reps on each leg; 4 seconds down and 4 seconds up. 
(3) Split Leg Box Jump (do immediately after balance lunge): 

Plant one foot on top of a box/bench that holds the front knee at 90 degrees. 
With weight mainly on the top leg, jump and switch legs. Do 30 jumps. 
Rest 1 minute. Repeat Balance Board Lunge and Split Leg Box Jumps ??? 3 sets. 
(4) Jack Knife: 

Start in a push-up position with toes on top of a Swiss ball. 
Raise hips up slightly and draw the belly-button into the spine. 
Pull knees up towards chest. 
Perform 20 reps; 2 seconds in and 2 seconds out. 
(5) Swiss Ball Crunch (do immediately after jack knife): 

Lie on top of ball with low back supported; pull in belly button to spine. 
Perform crunch, exhaling as you come up without allowing stomach to "pop up." 
Perform 20 reps; 2 seconds up and 2 seconds down. 
Rest 1 min and repeat Jack Knife and Crunch 3 sets. 


Day 3 

Do 3 sets of the following exercises with no rest in between. 

Walking Lunges: Hold dumbbells at sides. Step through front heel and bring back knee towards floor. Do 30 steps. 
Push-ups: Do 100. 
Swiss Ball Crunch: Do 50. 
Sprint: Outside or on treadmill, sprint 1 minute at 80 per cent intensity. 
Inch Worms : In a push-up position, take tiny steps so the feet come towards the hands. Keep walking until you feel a gentle stretch through the hamstrings. Do this 30 times. 
Lat Pull Downs : Do 50. 
Stairs: Take every second step. Perform 20 reps (up and down is 1).


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## CowPimp (Jun 2, 2006)

Seems pretty lame to me.  Poor balance, kind of scattered, and no real purpose.  It is nice to see some external rotations in there though.


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## leg_press (Jun 3, 2006)

From the moment shoulder rotations work ur back 2?


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## leg_press (Jun 3, 2006)

Ok I have to admit this has confused the hell out of me. Can anyone post me a basic mass workout using the push/pull/legs split? I am not the brightest bulb in the draw it took me ages to get my head around nutrition. Thought I had trainin sussed. I guess not.


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## mike456 (Jun 3, 2006)

Push
Flat Bench- 3x6-12
Incline Bench- 3x6-12
Overhead Press- 3x6-12
Dips- 3x6-12
Tricep extensions- 2x6-12

Pull
BB Bent Row- 3x6-12
Seated Cable row- 3x6-12
Pull-ups- 3x6-12
Wide Grip Upright rows- 3x6-12
BB Curls- 2x6-12

Legs
Squats- 3x6-12
RDL's- 3x6-12
Lunges- 3x6-12
Glute-Ham Raises- 3x6-12
Calves- 3x10-15
(optional) Abs- 3x10-15


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## mike456 (Jun 3, 2006)

its easy just get a good push workout than do the opposite of all the movements as your pull, such as bench press(horizontal push) and BB Bent row(horizontal Pull), Pull-ups(vertical pull) and Overhead Press (Vertical Push)
and for legs just put a ham-dominant for every quad dominant

Use good exercises and make sure your movements hit all of the push/pull/lower muscles


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## mike456 (Jun 3, 2006)

what the hell is wrong with you Kenwood your really startin to get annoying and I would like to kick your ass.


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## mike456 (Jun 3, 2006)

I wish you get banned from this site dumbass.  You are really fucking ignorant.


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## Double D (Jun 3, 2006)

leg_press said:
			
		

> Thanks, good workout P-Funk, how do you front squat and I suck @ skull crushers



You suck at skull crushers for a reason, you are not strong in that area. Normally you hate the exercises that you are weak at, which is why you should do them.


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## Double D (Jun 3, 2006)

mike456 said:
			
		

> I wish you get banned from this site dumbass.  You are really fucking ignorant.



This is true, I mean what does he accomplish by being here? He hads nothing to any discussion. I think I have been here for a month or so and just as you can on any other bb'ing site you can tell who knows what and who wants to learn. And he is neither or those.


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## Double D (Jun 3, 2006)

I apologize for taking over your thread. Lets get back to buisness.


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## leg_press (Jun 3, 2006)

mike456 said:
			
		

> what the hell is wrong with you Kenwood your really startin to get annoying and I would like to kick your ass.





			
				mike456 said:
			
		

> I wish you get banned from this site dumbass. You are really fucking ignorant.



Did Kenwood actually post? Do you have the right thread?

Thanks for that, will try it out when I go back to the gym on Monday

As for skull crushers, I tried it @ a bodybuilders gym, and the owner got angry with me cus I couldnt get the bar over to my forehead and the back again, so he told me to do something else


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## mike456 (Jun 3, 2006)

leg_press said:
			
		

> *Did Kenwood actually post? Do you have the right thread?*
> 
> Thanks for that, will try it out when I go back to the gym on Monday
> 
> As for skull crushers, I tried it @ a bodybuilders gym, and the owner got angry with me cus I couldnt get the bar over to my forehead and the back again, so he told me to do something else


yes he posted either he or 1 of the mods must of deleted his stupid posts.


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## leg_press (Jun 3, 2006)

mike456 said:
			
		

> Push
> Flat Bench- 3x6-12
> Incline Bench- 3x6-12
> Overhead Press- 3x6-12
> ...


*What do you mean by 6-12?*


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## P-funk (Jun 3, 2006)

6-12 reps


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## Double D (Jun 3, 2006)

leg_press said:
			
		

> Did Kenwood actually post? Do you have the right thread?
> 
> Thanks for that, will try it out when I go back to the gym on Monday
> 
> As for skull crushers, I tried it @ a bodybuilders gym, and the owner got angry with me cus I couldnt get the bar over to my forehead and the back again, so he told me to do something else



Sounds like to me you were doing to much weight. Go down weight and do them trust me you will see good results. As far as the owner he isnt much of an owner if hes hanging out with people who are lifting telling them what they cant and can do.


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## leg_press (Jun 3, 2006)

He did a program for me and I couldnt get the form right just using the bar, so I started doin kickbacks instead


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## Double D (Jun 3, 2006)

Lose the kickbacks and atleast do extensions.


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## Double D (Jun 3, 2006)

Close grip bench or dips would be excellent to.


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## leg_press (Jun 3, 2006)

Yeah am gonna try and use two benches, or just the one and rest of arms on it and lower myself to the floor.


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## Double D (Jun 3, 2006)

leg_press said:
			
		

> Yeah am gonna try and use two benches, or just the one and rest of arms on it and lower myself to the floor.



You dont go to a gym anymore? If so they dont have a dip bar?


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## mike456 (Jun 3, 2006)

3x6-12 means 3 sets of 6-12 reps

RDL's are basically Stiff legged deadlifts they stand for Roman Deadlifts

tricep extensions: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/BBTriExt.html
you can also do them with Dumbbells

they must have a dip stand lol, if they really dont do them with cables


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## leg_press (Jun 3, 2006)

The opening hours at the bodybuilders gym didnt fit in with my shedule so I moved, I haven't seen a dip bar, if they havent got one I'll just use a bench or two


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## mike456 (Jun 3, 2006)

cable dips- use the lat pull down machine get some1 help you to pull the bar down, than grab an overhand shoulder width grip bring it up to your neck and then push down


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## Double D (Jun 3, 2006)

Yeah it would work, but I think I could do like 500 reps of that, its just so easy. So if you have the option of the 2 go ahead and do extensions.


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## leg_press (Jun 3, 2006)

mike456 said:
			
		

> 3x6-12 means 3 sets of 6-12 reps *<So I Should be forcin as many of those last six reps as I can?*
> 
> RDL's are basically Stiff legged deadlifts they stand for Roman Deadlifts*<Never seen or done those before *
> 
> ...



How do you do dips with cables?


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## mike456 (Jun 3, 2006)

cable dips- use the lat pull down machine get some1 help you to pull the bar down, than grab an overhand shoulder width grip bring it up to your neck and then push down


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## leg_press (Jun 3, 2006)

mike456 said:
			
		

> cable dips- use the lat pull down machine get some1 help you to pull the bar down, than grab an overhand shoulder width grip bring it up to your neck and then push down


 *< Was under the impression these were called tricep pressdowns?*


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## mike456 (Jun 3, 2006)

no not tricep extensions, abduct your shoulders on the negative and then for the positive just adduct them(basically the opposite of a wide grip upright row)


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## mike456 (Jun 3, 2006)

legpress- do you understand? 
I couldnt find a video, think of it as an upright row but the opposite using a lat pull down machine
here is a video of upright row, cable dips are the exact opposite and you must use a lat-pulldown machine http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/BBUprightRow.html


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## leg_press (Jun 4, 2006)

Ok, well the gym I go to doesnt have a lat pulldown station, but I get what u mean, pullin the weight down from ur down to ur chest usin a different grip range


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## leg_press (Jun 4, 2006)

Is an overhead press the same as a military press?


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## Double D (Jun 4, 2006)

Yes it is the same.


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## mike456 (Jun 4, 2006)

an overhead press is any type of press over your head 
military press is a overhead press standing with a barbell, you can do any type you like, seated dumbbell/barbell, standing barbell/dumbbell
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/BBMilitaryPress.html


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## Double D (Jun 4, 2006)

Personally I like Dumbell over head press. Your range of movement is alot better and not to mention its much more comfortable.


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## mike456 (Jun 4, 2006)

IMO military press hits less lateral delt than shoulder press and behind neck press, but I wouldn't advise behind neck press because many people say it is a dangerous movement


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## Double D (Jun 4, 2006)

Yeah....also imo going in front on overhead presses works on your tie-ins


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## leg_press (Jun 4, 2006)

Ok, thanks for that, what are tie-ins?


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## leg_press (Jun 4, 2006)

Are the pull ups wide or close grip?


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## mike456 (Jun 4, 2006)

Overhand Wide Grip


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## leg_press (Jun 4, 2006)

Was hoping you wouldnt say that I can barely do 1 of those let alone 6


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## mike456 (Jun 4, 2006)

then do wide grip lat pulldowns-if you dont have a pull down machine do pullups however you can so that you can get the desired reps until you are strong enough to do wide overhand...


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## leg_press (Jun 5, 2006)

I have do them with overhand grip but for some reason I cant get up high enough when i use overhand.


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## leg_press (Jun 6, 2006)

I have to do them with an under hand grip overhand grip I cant get my body up high enough.

How high should I set the incline when doin incline bench?


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## CowPimp (Jun 6, 2006)

leg_press said:
			
		

> I have to do them with an under hand grip overhand grip I cant get my body up high enough.



You either have really horrible shoulder flexibility, or you are just not strong enough.  Overhand is a lot harder.




> How high should I set the incline when doin incline bench?



Depends.  You can use a variety of angles, but the more you put it on an incline the more emphasis will be placed on the anterior delts at the expense of your chest.


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## leg_press (Jun 7, 2006)

Ok and is

Chest/Back
Biceps/ Triceps
Legs/ Shoulder

better or worse than push/pull/legs


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## CowPimp (Jun 7, 2006)

leg_press said:
			
		

> Ok and is
> 
> Chest/Back
> Biceps/ Triceps
> ...



I just feel that a day dedicated to arm training is pretty lame and inefficient.


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## leg_press (Jun 7, 2006)

Ok just wonderin, there a guy I work with whos built like a brick out house, and he reckons chest/shoulders/tri's and push/pull/lkegs is a waste of time, and that I should train the way he suggested above


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## CowPimp (Jun 7, 2006)

leg_press said:
			
		

> Ok just wonderin, there a guy I work with whos built like a brick out house, and he reckons chest/shoulders/tri's and push/pull/lkegs is a waste of time, and that I should train the way he suggested above



Go ahead and try it.  Just try to keep things in a reasonable balance.  Remember though, most people who are big don't know shit about designing a good workout program, they just have a big appetite, possibly a good workout ethic, and/or they have good genetics.


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## P-funk (Jun 7, 2006)

leg_press said:
			
		

> Ok just wonderin, there a guy I work with whos built like a brick out house, and he reckons chest/shoulders/tri's and push/pull/lkegs is a waste of time, and that I should train the way he suggested above




I love how this is the excuse that people use.  "Some big guy in my gym said so....".......Like Pimp said, just because he is big, doesn't mean that he knows what he is doing.  to many factors play into that....genetics, drugs, training age, etc....

Anyway, the real thing I was going to say was that people always want to talk about how some big guy at their gym told them that doing 50 sets for chest would make their chest grow....or this or that will make them big.....I say, look at the guys that ARE REALLY BIG and REALLY STRONG and see what they are doing.  And I am not talking about the guys in your gym.  Look at guy like pro strongmen or powerlifters.....Shit, Ed Coan trained upper/lower 3x's a week, all the guys at westside train upper/lower 4x's a week, olympic lifters train total body, look at the old time lifters like Paul Anders, John Grimek and Bill starr....always total body workouts.....how about pro strongmen?  Almost always it is push/pull/legs and events or some sort of break up like that.  I mean, who are you really going to listen to?  The guy at your gym that is BIG or someone who is the real deal.

Then, their are professional athletes......I would guess that most people don't even want to look like Jay Cutler or Ronnie Coleman.  In most cases people want to be more muscular, leaner and more fit looking.  They don't train BB'er style.  they train like athletes....they train their bodies, not their muscles and ya know what?  They look better then pretty much anyone!



Try whatever you want to try.  But, training smart(er) is something that most people in the gym don't know anything about.


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## mike456 (Jun 7, 2006)

Just cause hes big ur gonna lissten to him??
what a stupid split- your working 2 huge bodyparts on the same day (chest, and back) and 2 tiny bodyparts on the same day(biceps, triceps), and that means your triceps are gonna be used in all of those and probably wont grow because of being overtrained


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## leg_press (Jun 8, 2006)

I dunno Mike he just said that I should train opposing body parts at the same time. He said that push/pull/legs was just a fad. I'll try each one for a few months see which one give me the most gains.


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## CowPimp (Jun 8, 2006)

Legs and shoulders are opposing body parts?  I never knew.


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## leg_press (Jun 9, 2006)

Apparently the 'legs are at the bottom of the boidy and the shoulders are at the top'?


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## CowPimp (Jun 9, 2006)

leg_press said:
			
		

> Apparently the 'legs are at the bottom of the boidy and the shoulders are at the top'?



Well yeah, but they are not opposing muscle groups (Suggesting antagonists) like the biceps and triceps.


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## leg_press (Jun 9, 2006)

dont ask me, only sayin what he said, so is push pull legs better?


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## CowPimp (Jun 9, 2006)

leg_press said:
			
		

> dont ask me, only sayin what he said, so is push pull legs better?



I feel it makes more sense, but the split isn't the be all end all deciding factor of the success of a program.  It has more to do with the loading parameters and your diet if you are in it for body composition reasons.


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