# Puritan vitamins



## cappo5150 (May 6, 2004)

Anybody ever buy there vitamins from Puritanvitamins.com, they seem relatively cheap.  Just wondering what the quality of their vitamins were, if anyone knows. Right now they have 70% off.


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## Witmaster (May 6, 2004)

If you are refering to "Puritan's Pride" then yes, I buy practically ALL my vitamins from them.  Excellent quality and unbeatable prices.  Puritan is a reputable company that prides itselfe in providing you with 100% of what they advertise.  In other words, a 500mg tablet of Glucosamine will contain 500 mg of Glucosamine.  not 300 mg or so and some fluff.  These are good people who have been in the business for over 40 years.  Give them a try.  you won't be dissapointed.

Cheers,

Wit

P.S.  No, I am not a sales rep for Puritan


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## Mudge (May 6, 2004)

I think they rock.


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## MRCM (May 7, 2004)

Might as well just go too wally world and get some sundown and give it too your dog to save your liver from all of the fillers and binders used.

Owned a vitamin store for several years and have degree in nutrition.


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## brodus (May 7, 2004)

Puritan's Pride rocks.  When they have their sales, they are incredibly inexpensive.  I've never heard of a report of their products being inferior by a non-biased, consumer-based group.

Also, Indiana Botanical Supply for herbals totally rocks.

As for being loaded with fillers and binders that wreck your liver, I do not agree, since many "fillers" like maltodextrin are hardly hepatoxic.   I personally think this is just an argument used to sell Shaklee and similar vitamins, which may indeed dissolve instantly in a glass of water, but have not been proven to be more absorbable, less toxic, or "better" for you.  There is a baseline bioavailability for most things, and you can't change this by putting a $30 price tag on it.  

I mean, if you buy a $30 bottle of vitamin C, and I buy a $4 bottle, do you really think you're getting 7 times the value?  We know the supplement company is, but are you, seeing as how we both will be pissing out most of it within three hours?

If there is a non-partisan, journal-published article on this subject that wasn't funded by Shaklee, I'd love to see it.


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## mickclev (May 7, 2004)

*Puritan's ?????*

Have to disagree, even when they have one of their 'big' sales of buy one get ten for free, they are still overpriced!  Have you ever tried bodybuilding.com?????


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## brodus (May 7, 2004)

BTW, if you're worried about liver problems, you should be more worried about megadosing those fat-soluble vitamins than barley flour and maltodextrin.


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## brodus (May 7, 2004)

I shop at BB.com, 1fast, and BSL on a monthly basis.  I aman equal opportunity consumer for companies that deliver excellent service and products.

When Puritans Pride has a 3 for 1 with free shipping, they are indeed cheaper than the above companies, at least for anything I was purchasing, particularly the herbal extracts, Glucosamine, and I think EFAs.  

Can you give me a recent example?

If you want, I'll dig out a catalog on Monday, and show you.  I did a price comparison a while ago.

I still shop at BB.com, but they've screwed up three orders of mine in the past four months-->fixed everything, but they do make a lot of mistakes. (For instance, their entire stock of a specific product was 1 year expired, and they didn't know until I informed them).


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## Witmaster (May 8, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by MRCM *_
> Might as well just go too wally world and get some sundown and give it too your dog to save your liver from all of the fillers and binders used.
> 
> Owned a vitamin store for several years and have degree in nutrition.



Well I certainly won't dispute that you owned a vitamin store and have a degree in nutrition... however...

Do you have any clinical and/or verifiable examples to quantify your claims that Puritan Vitamins are Liver Toxic due to the "fillers and Binders"?  I would sincerely like to know as I have been a Puritan Customer for quite some time now and would hate to think I've been inadvertantly killing myself.

I have looked up several consumer reports as well as some independant research groups and all see to rate Puritan as one of the best.  I'm curious as to your conclusion that Puritan is something other than what they advertise?

Praise the Lord and Pass the Guinness!!


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## brodus (May 8, 2004)

Two people have asked for proof of these hepatoxicity claims.

Still waiting for proof of claims....

Please don't say things like "the vitamins you take are liver toxic" unless you have some way of prooving the statement.


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## MRCM (May 9, 2004)

Nobody ever said anything about liver toxic but now that you mention it.
www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/enforce/2004/ENF00842.html

www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ENFORCE/ENF00144.html

http://www.fda.gov/opacom/7alerts.html

Vitamin companys are running rampant on claims. Because they think that nobody is watching. Wrong http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1995/04/natbount.htm

You know I hope your not killing yourself either because who knows we might become friends.

P.S. Search out some good naturopathic websites and a little note that I learned in herbal school " just because it saids 24% on the bottle how pure is the 24% is it 100% or 70 or even 50% thats what i want know is how pure is the base to start with. Everybody would rather not have the FDA regulate the vitamin industry, but I disagree, because the majority would not stand up to the test , although you and I would actually be healthier because we would know what we are buying.


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## brodus (May 9, 2004)

First, I encourage all to read this:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html

http://www.geocities.com/healthbase/homeopathy_research.html

Second, I would encourage all to read this, a true action alert from Puritan's Pride, who are interested in your rights:
http://puritanvitamins.com/house/actionalert.asp?xs=&sc=0&edid=

Now on to refuting the "Evidence" provided by the Shaklee salesman:

Point 1:
Thanks for the links, but there was nothing about liver toxicity and binders there.  Yes, I am aware that products have to be recalled. If you read closely, you see most on the list were recalls initiated by the company.  
I asked you for proof that there are liver toxic agents in the "binders and fillers" of vitamins that are prodcued by Puritan, and you gave none.  But I will be on the lookout for Weight Watchers yogurt, thanks.

Point 2:
Although you may beg to differ because you believe light waves cure cancer better than tumor removal, I think naturopathy, for the most part, is total bullshit, a tidied-up version of classic snake oil charaltans and quakery with better costumes.  No "drug" treatments, no surgery, but homeopathy (ahem, bullshit in bottles) is seen as a viable treatment option.  I've actually studied with physicians and PhD/MDs from University of Michigan, who actually work with very sick people and very healthy people, and do a weird thing called "science" to verify hypotheses about the human species, so after going to to your suggested websites, it only furthers my view that "naturopaths" are nothing more than good salesmen, and hardly have the mental abilities to endure true physician training.

Point 3:
You're reductivist argument of the "purity of the pure extract" is classic salesman speak.   Of course you would learn that in a place that is essentially training you in how to effectively sell your "knowledge" to people who aren't in need of it.  Again, as I asked before, please show me how a $30 bottle of vitamin C delivers more vitamon C than a $3 bottle.  Any real study would be great.

Point 4:
The final link you provide, in which the label claims for a specific supplement came under fire, does nothing but exhibit a trend at every manufacturer of supplements.  It has nothing to do with liver toxicity.  On the other hand, there is a lot of debate to ban homeopathic remedies altogether, since they proove to be nothing more than water under microscopic analysis, and claim to treat all kinds of stuff:



> The NCAHF advises consumers not to buy homeopathic products or to patronize homeopathic practitioners.  Basic scientists are urged to be proactive in opposing the marketing of homeopathic remedies because of conflicts with known physical laws.  Those who study homeopathic remedies are warned to beware of deceptive practices in addition to applying sound research methodologies.  State and federal regulatory agencies are urged to require homeopathic products to meet the same standards as regular drugs, and to take strong enforcement actions against violators, including the discipline of health professionals who practice homeopathy.  States are urged to abolish homeopathic licensing boards. _National Council Against Health Fraud_


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## OceanDude (May 9, 2004)

Puritan seems to be a "Northern Thing". We just don't see them down here in FL but my Brother in law swears by them (NJ/PA area). I have seen their product prochures online and the prices look terrific. But I have a formula I use now that I like and see no big reason to change.

-OD


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## Witmaster (May 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by MRCM *_
> ... give it too your dog to save your liver from all of the fillers and binders used...



Perhaps it was the whole "save your liver" comment that lead me to believe you were implying that Puritan Vitamins were Liver toxic.

Anyhow, just got back from midnight-till-dawn patrol so I'm a little wiped out at the moment.  I do thank you for the links you provided to qualify your previous post but, it would appear that Brodus has done a pretty stellar job of addressing each point.  (addressed, smacked down, stomped on, crushed and smoked into ashes.)  Keep em coming though.  Things like this are great to discuss as they drive people like me deeper into researching the truth. 

I would like to state (for the record) that I am completely opposed to any further federal regulation in the vitamin/supplement industry.  I will grant you that there are some unscrupulous companies out there that seek to take advantage of the "ignorant consumer" and thus sell half-assed products to an otherwise unsuspecting customer base.  But then, that's what Forums like this are for.  Knowledge is POWER!!  I am completely certain that the collective knowledge base of this online Quarum far surpasses any value that the FDA may hope to want you to believe they can offer.  Quite frankly I'm pretty convinced that the FDA is pretty much hamstrung by the "Big Money" of pharmacuticals and although the Feds may advertise the best of intentions in thier efforts, their effectiveness in the Food and Drug industry is severly compromised if not ineffective.

Ok, enough of my rambelings.... gonna go pass out now.

Wit


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## MRCM (May 10, 2004)

Damn... Brodus, your one smart dude. But believe it or not I`m not into selling vitamins but I do take alot, buy them from a little vitamin co. called "nature`s most" still get them at cost a bottle of vit-c 50 tabs 500 mg 3.50 and so on hell a deal.


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## TrojanMan60563 (May 10, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by MRCM *_
> P.S. Search out some good naturopathic websites and a little note that I learned in herbal school " just because it saids 24% on the bottle how pure is the 24% is it 100% or 70 or even 50% thats what i want know is how pure is the base to start with. Everybody would rather not have the FDA regulate the vitamin industry, but I disagree, because the majority would not stand up to the test , although you and I would actually be healthier because we would know what we are buying.



I have heard of some companies saying the vitamin C is 500mg, but in reality legally there may be 5mg of vitamin C and 495mg of filler for a total of 500mg. This is legal since our government doesn't regulate the supplement companies. I really don't want the government to have a say in what we can take, but it would be nice if the government can atleast make it law that the label is saying 500mg vitamin C then there is 500mg of straight vitamin C in there. From my understanding if it is standardized then its legit. So when I buy my saw palmetto, and milk thistle I only get standardized products instead of fingerprinted. I only use Barleans Flax oil, and ON 100% whey, and ON glutamine. These are companies I trust.


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## MRCM (May 10, 2004)

Barlean`s is the best we used to sell it. Using champion myself mixes easy has somewhere around 17 gr. glutamine and 2 gr. arginine.

Hey Witmaster are you in the Military you say you were on patrol ?


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## brodus (May 10, 2004)

I don't think this is true:


> I have heard of some companies saying the vitamin C is 500mg, but in reality legally there may be 5mg of vitamin C and 495mg of filler for a total of 500mg.



If they did that, it would be illegal.  If you have a source to post that shows this happens a lot, please do.

MRCM, to say you sold vitamins (which in itself is true) was a valid assumption:



> Owned a vitamin store for several years and have degree in nutrition.



Add to this the fact that the only people I have ever heard make the kind of claims you do are vitamin salesman. 

And if you reference my first post, I don't even argue that there may or may not be better dissovling/tasting/looking vitamin pills, or pills that are processed in a more politically correct manner. 



> There is a baseline bioavailability for most things, and you can't change this by putting a $30 price tag on it.
> 
> I mean, if you buy a $30 bottle of vitamin C, and I buy a $4 bottle, do you really think you're getting 7 times the value? We know the supplement company is, but are you, seeing as how we both will be pissing out most of it within three hours?



I am simply stating that:

1. There is no evidence that organic/light processed/Republican-free vitamin C (or any other vitamin) is more bioavailable than any other vitamin C.

2. There is no evidence that Puritans Pride and other discount vitamin suppliers use liver toxic agents in their pills, or, as you say liver toxic binders and fillers.  You haven't even given us a single "liver toxic" filler/binder that we could research.  

So you can see why my skepticsm boils over into annoyance.

You were able to contradict yourself, though:



> give it too your dog to save your liver from all of the fillers and binders used.





> Nobody ever said anything about liver toxic....


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## TrojanMan60563 (May 10, 2004)

I don't have any documentation on hand about it brodus. But from what I have read and heard in the past as long as it is 500mg, and contains vitamin C the company can label the product as 500mg vitamin C. Thats the difference between cheapo vitamins and more expensive ones. I will look hard and find something for you to read.


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## TrojanMan60563 (May 10, 2004)

The ol saying is pretty accurate when it comes to supplements. "you get what you pay for". Now I realize this doesn't always hold true since there is scammers out there trying to sell wanna be steroids that do nothing for crazy prices, but this I think holds true for basic vitamins, and supplements.


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## brodus (May 10, 2004)

Well, on the topic of "supplements" and herbals, I might agree with you (www.labelclaimstesting.com), but we're talking about vitamins specifically.

You have to understand my questioning when you assert that vitamin companies sell 5mg of vitamin C and call it 500mg.  Without a representative example, I can't believe you.  Especially since I have read this:

http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/lab-hlth.html


And the saying that "you get what you pay for" is not true at all-->look at UL M1T vs. VPX M1T or any other prohormone.  Underground Labs sells it for $10 a bottle, and there have been hundreds of success stories.  You can pay 10 times more to buy the VPX version and get no better results.

I don't think cost is a solid indication of quality.  Again, back to the topic at hand, if you can somehow prove that Puritan's Pride are inferior, liver toxic, or less bioavailable, please do.  Naturopaths make all sorts of claims that sound good, but don't hold up to scientific inquiry.

I'm not at all trying to be a jerk here-->I'm trying to be a consumer advocate.   If there is a reason to fear liver toxicity, I'd love to hear it, but I'm quite certain the opposite is true.


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## TrojanMan60563 (May 11, 2004)

Brodus I am not saying anything bad about the Puritan Pride company and their products. I have never used them, and I highly doubt they are liver toxic. I assume that all companies use the same fillers to make their products. So they must all be liver toxic...NOT...lol...I have to find the article I read about the quality of a vitamin. I read something along the lines that the cheapy vitamins you get at the local store is crap and thats why its so cheap. They use a lower amount of actual vitamin, and more filler to get to the total mg. Supposedly this is legal to do since the government doesn't regulate the supplement companies. I agree that some companies charge more for the product another company sells. Chances are they are the exact same thing. Just like when the doctor gives you something for a cold you can usually get the generic for much cheaper then you can the name brand stuff. That doesn't mean its not going to work the same in most cases.


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## Mudge (May 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by brodus *_
> I'm not at all trying to be a jerk here-->I'm trying to be a consumer advocate.   If there is a reason to fear liver toxicity, I'd love to hear it, but I'm quite certain the opposite is true.



Yeah, I likewise have a hard time believing some filler is eating me alive. It looks like people like to imply a lot of things negative and then not only not back it up, but say "Nobody ever said anything about liver toxic."

Stick to the facts and dont dick people around, we aren't 5 year olds on the playground arguing about whose toy is better and then have no science to bring forth.



> _*Originally posted by OceanDude *_
> Puritan seems to be a "Northern Thing".



A Texan told me about it.


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