# Bicep/tricep balance



## Fkarl (Aug 15, 2011)

Forgive my ignorance here.....
Many folks train biceps twice as much as triceps but the latter is twice the volume of the former. This seems strange to me..... Shouldn't you be able to use the same weight you curl with to do over head tricep moves or tricep pushdowns? 
This is a goal of mine, to be equal in strength in both directions. Thoughts?


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## Kenny Croxdale (Aug 15, 2011)

Fkarl said:


> Forgive my ignorance here.....
> Many folks train biceps twice as much as triceps but the latter is twice the volume of the former. This seems strange to me..... Shouldn't you be able to use the same weight you curl with to do over head tricep moves or tricep pushdowns?
> This is a goal of mine, to be equal in strength in both directions. Thoughts?



Fkarl,

*Triceps Vs Biceps*

Your triceps make up two thirds of your arm.  Your biceps are make up the other one third.  

That means you've got twice as much size and strength in your triceps.  So, you're not going to have equal streght in them.  

*Muscle Fiber*

Also, the muscle fiber type is different in the triceps and biceps.  

*Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber*

The triceps have more fast twitch muscle fiber.  They respond and perform better with low to moderate repetition ranges. 

*Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber*

The biceps are composed of more slow twitch muscle fiber.  They resond and perform better with higher repetition strength endurance training.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## jbzjacked (Aug 15, 2011)

^^ Nice post, good info


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## ponyboy (Aug 16, 2011)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> Also, the muscle fiber type is different in the triceps and biceps.
> 
> *Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber*
> 
> ...



Where did you get this information?  I'd love to read your source because it opposes what I've read.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Aug 16, 2011)

*Fast and Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber*



ponyboy said:


> Where did you get this information?



Ponyboy,

Here's some of the sources and information on which ones tend to be fast and slow twitch. 

*How to Use Tempo Training*
T NATION | How to Use Tempo Training

Studies have shown that the back, biceps, and quads have a higher percentage of type I (slow twitch) muscle fibers and low threshold motor units, whereas the hamstrings, glutes, calves, triceps, traps, chest and shoulders have a higher percentage of type II (fast twitch) muscle fibers and high threshold motor units

*High-Performance Mass Program
Lats and Biceps Fatigue Loading*

Chris Thibaudeau goes into how lats and biceps are slow twitch muscle fiber and need are more responsive to higher reps, supersets and static holds.  

T NATION | High-Performance Mass: Lats and Biceps Fatigue Loading

*Hamstring Paradigm*
Charles Poliquin
Bodybuilding.com - Hamstring Paradigm!

Hamstrings are made up of a high percentage of fast-twitch fibers.

*Best Cafl Exercises*
Best Calf Exercises - Exercise Tips to Easily Build your Gastrocnemius and Soleus Muscle

Gastrocnemius calf muscle is fast twitch.

Soleus calf muscle is slow twitch.


ponyboy said:


> I'd love to read your source because it opposes what I've read.



What did your sources state and what are they? 

Thanks,

Kenny Croxdale


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## mlc308 (Aug 16, 2011)

ponyboy said:


> Where did you get this information?  I'd love to read your source because it opposes what I've read.



What sources are you reading? Playboy, Penthouse, a bathroom stall? Because the American Medical Association and the New England Journal of Medicine have been reporting those finds since 1950.  And according to those two sources, it is more like 70% Tricep and only 30% bicep ( no disrespect to the 2/3 and 1/3 ratio  post).  

Additionally, Schwarzenegger once said that you should train bicep and tricep in proportion to the muscle.  For every one bicep exercis, you do two tricep exercises.  Additionally your triceps should be much stronger.


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## ponyboy (Aug 17, 2011)

From the same source that you listed about biceps:  

T NATION | Biceps . . . Fast or Slow?

I think where we are disconnecting is that you are stating that these muscles are ONLY fast/slow twitch, when all muscles are a mixture of the two (actually three) main types.  Within a motor unit there is only one type, however the nervous system determines whether a weak, strong, or strongest (type IIb) is needed.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Aug 17, 2011)

ponyboy said:


> From the same source that you listed about biceps:
> 
> T NATION | Biceps . . . Fast or Slow?
> 
> I think where we are disconnecting is that you are stating that these muscles are ONLY fast/slow twitch, when all muscles are a mixture of the two (actually three) main types.



Ponyboy,

*Only Fast or Slow*

There is a mixture of muscle fiber types.  However, some muslce are composed more of muscle fiber type or another.  

Thus, what you want to do is use the right training method for the right muscle fiber type.  



ponyboy said:


> Within a motor unit there is only one type, however the nervous system determines whether a weak, strong, or strongest (type IIb) is needed.



*Motor Unit*

I understand the motor does control the contraction speed of muscle fiber.

*Bottom Line*

The bottom line is that most muscles fall more into one catagory or another. 

*Calf Muscles*

A great example is that the gastroc is more of a fast twitch muscle that is utilized in standing movement.  Thus, to increase the size or strength of the gastroc, moderate repetition fast type movement are more effective. 

The soleus is more of a slow twitch muscle.  It is utilized moreso in seated movements.  Thus, high repetitions in a seated calf raise work best in developing the soleus.

*Tendon Attachment*

Another factor is when the tendon is attached to the bone.  The attachment position plays a role in determing power or strength output. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## ovr40 (Aug 17, 2011)

intersting articles


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