# 10,943 reasons France should support the United States



## butterfly (Mar 12, 2003)

enough said...


----------



## ZECH (Mar 12, 2003)

I ain't eating french fries, french toast, french this or french that!
Fuck em!


----------



## seyone (Mar 12, 2003)

they make me sick. Whats fucked up is that if anything every happens to them in the future the united states will be the first there to bail their smelly, unshaven citizens out.


----------



## Stickboy (Mar 12, 2003)

It's not just the French doing this type of shit.  They are just more vocal about it.

Hate to say it, but it's about time we tell the rest of the world to FO and fix their own problems.

Let's get out of the UN and get the UN OUT of the US.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 12, 2003)

ill agree with disbanding the U.N. in any case, but i think this war is rediculous.  look it sucks that saddam killed some of his own people, but bush will get more of our own people killed in terrorist attacks, if he pisses of more muslim extremists in the middle east. bush says he wants to protect our countries citizens. bullshit. if thats all it was about we would be invading north korea, iraq isn't even a tenth of the threat to us NK is. he's protecting his father's good name by throwing saddam out.  im sorry, but this is just my opinion so dont go off on me about it.  but could someone please tell me, if them being a threat is what its all about, why the hell they're more of a threat than then NK.  and whose to say who should own nuclear weapons? do you really trust bush with one?  people say "saddam is cruel to his people, he murders people and throws them in jail...."  our country has a higher percentage of its own citizens in jail then any other country in the world. and it goes back through history, in WWII we inprisoned the japanese-americans for no apparent reason, in the civl war, lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus, completely unconstitutionally, and then threw people in prison for 5 years without even charging them with a crime.  what would surpirse you is that im actually very very right wing, past republican, closer to libertarian, but this war is bull. if you ask me the U.S. deserves to get its ass kicked every once in a while going around trying to the international police force.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RCfootball87 *_
> ill agree with disbanding the U.N. in any case, but i think this war is rediculous.  look it sucks that saddam killed some of his own people, but bush will get more of our own people killed in terrorist attacks, if he pisses of more muslim extremists in the middle east.



COMPLETE PREDICTION!!!!!!!  There is no fact or proof based on this statement.  While neither true nor false, you could've also said "Bush will get more of his own people killed by falling pickles" and it would've had the same effect.



> bush says he wants to protect our countries citizens. bullshit. if thats all it was about we would be invading north korea, iraq isn't even a tenth of the threat to us NK is. he's protecting his father's good name by throwing saddam out.



Fight the fights you can win.  North Korea may very well be super moronic and play around with their nukes.  Besides, we started the Iraq thing first.



> im sorry, but this is just my opinion so dont go off on me about it.



Hmmmm. . . by posting your opinion you open yourself up to criticisms.  So, uhm, yeah.



> but could someone please tell me, if them being a threat is what its all about, why the hell they're more of a threat than then NK.  and whose to say who should own nuclear weapons? do you really trust bush with one?



Bush just can't go over to a little control panel and push a button.  It's _really_ not even close to that simple.  There seems to be a theory you're not sound on; using nukes is dumb and results in total destruction of everything.  Bush may be a few logs short of a chord, but he's not that retarded.



> people say "saddam is cruel to his people, he murders people and throws them in jail...."  our country has a higher percentage of its own citizens in jail then any other country in the world.



One cannot compare the horror unleashed upon those jailed in the prisons of Iraq.  And hell, our inmates have it pretty good.  Many have better lives inside the cell than they had on the outside.  TV, weight room, free food.  Yeah, there may be some ass kicking or some hot man love, but that happens just as often on the outside.  I'd rather have hot man love than the wrath of Saddam.



> and it goes back through history, in WWII we inprisoned the japanese-americans for no apparent reason,



There was a reason.  People from japan were the enemy.  However fucked up it was, that was the reason.  It was also for the protection of the Japanese citizens who immigrated to the US.  They weren't too safe outside of the camps seeing as their Country of origin has just fucked us up real bad.  



> if you ask me the U.S. deserves to get its ass kicked every once in a while going around trying to the international police force.



That's disgusting.  You're wishing the death of citizens of the United States of America.  You fucking whore.  Here, how about we send you over to Saddam and he'll kick your ass.  That way you can have your wish.  Pathetic.

And if we don't play International Police, we get in even more trouble with other nations.  Oh help us America help us!!!  It's what we do.  Yea freedom!


----------



## Rusty (Mar 13, 2003)

I heard on the news yesterday, that some of the people with relative burried over there, were thinking of having them moved because of the French.


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 13, 2003)

Go get 'em Pianomahnn!


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 13, 2003)

Not ALL French people share the oppinion of president Shiraq, just like not all Americans support Bush. Did you know that there has never been a single war supported by the majority of a western country's population (based on polls). Go figure.

RCfootball87: Good arguments... 

Pianomahnn: The truth hurts doesn't it?


----------



## Tboy (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pianomahnn *_
> COMPLETE PREDICTION!!!!!!!  There is no fact or proof based on this statement.  While neither true nor false, you could've also said "Bush will get more of his own people killed by falling pickles" and it would've had the same effect.



Not prediction,  Fact.  If suddam had a missile with range to hit the US, and had smart enough camel jockeys to launch it, we'd be toast right now.  No if' and's or butt's.  If you don't think so, call him up and ask him.




> Hmmmm. . . by posting your opinion you open yourself up to criticisms.  So, uhm, yeah.



 ditto



> One cannot compare the horror unleashed upon those jailed in the prisons of Iraq.



True.  He just set all his prisoners free, to show his love for the iraqi people.


----------



## Rusty (Mar 13, 2003)

Bergpussy, your such a dumbass.........


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 13, 2003)

IPMC: I thought I was on your ignore list... Hmm guess not. Anyway... nice arguments...what did I say that hurt ur feelings this time? I think you are the pussy here...


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RCfootball87 *_
> if you ask me the U.S. deserves to get its ass kicked every once in a while going around trying to the international police force.



Are you familiar with Isolationism? Isolationists get their ass' kicked, and rightly so.
If the U.S. ever get's it's ass kicked, I hope the first bomb lands in your living room. Of course, this will never happen, so in the mean time we'll just have to put up people who regurgitate generalities from their recent history lesson.


----------



## Rusty (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> Are you familiar with Isolationism? Isolationists get their ass' kicked, and rightly so.
> If the U.S. ever get's it's ass kicked, I hope the first bomb lands in your living room. Of course, this will never happen, so in the mean time we'll just have to put up people who regurgitate generalities from their recent history lesson.




Bomb them all and let god sort them out........


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 13, 2003)

If I said that I, for some reason, hated all Americans... you would probably tell me that not all are alike... people are different. So are europeans and the French.


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 13, 2003)

> Bomb them all and let god sort them out........



You refer to God. Does christianity support the killing of many innocent people (35.000 last time USA invaded Iraq)? Does "Thou shall NOT kill" ring a bell?
What makes you think that god is on your side not matter what you do? In other words... how dare you use the name of God like that?


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> If I said that I, for some reason, hated all Americans... you would probably tell me that not all are alike... people are different. So are europeans and the French.



For someone who doesn't hate Americans, your public relations skills are extremely lacking. Have trouble with relationships, Berg?
You know, Berg, you are nothing more than an instigator. Your opinions are groundless, and, while you just made a feeble attempt to befriend someone, you have no allies here. So why don't you just take a hike? You're a petty, insignificant, little toy soldier in Denmark...so how about marching your ass outta here.
Double Time....Jerk.


----------



## Rusty (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> You refer to God. Does christianity support the killing of many innocent people (35.000 last time USA invaded Iraq)? Does "Thou shall NOT kill" ring a bell?
> What makes you think that god is on your side not matter what you do? In other words... how dare you use the name of God like that?



God is on the side of RIGHT, not wrong.  And I have and will prove you wrong again and again.  Go play with your little blow up doll.

Excuse me while I finish my conversation with GOD...........


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 13, 2003)

DaMayor: Just because I don't express myself as aggressively as you, doesn't mean that my social skills are lacking. Are you by the way going to Iraq?


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Tboy *_
> Not prediction,  Fact.  If suddam had a missile with range to hit the US, and had smart enough camel jockeys to launch it, we'd be toast right now.  No if' and's or butt's.  If you don't think so, call him up and ask him.





> but bush will get more of our own people killed in terrorist attacks



That is NOT a fact.  A fact is something which can be proven.  This cannot.  Especially not before something happens.

And let me clarify something;  Terrorist attacks will not cease, regardless of war, unless one of two things occur:  (1) All terrorists are eradicated from this planet, or (2) The entire population of the United States is eradicated from this planet.

That is the only situation in which terrorist attacks will end.


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 13, 2003)

IPMC: Just go die eh... I really hope you do... then maybe you will see what you obviously wish upon so many people.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Not ALL French people share the oppinion of president Shiraq, just like not all Americans support Bush. Did you know that there has never been a single war supported by the majority of a western country's population (based on polls). Go figure.
> 
> RCfootball87: Good arguments...
> ...



Opinions are NOT arguments.  An argument is a fact or statement put forth as proof or evidence.  An opinion is a belief or conclusion held with confidence but not *substantiated by positive knowledge or proof*.

The author, Rcfootball87, clearly states his post as his personal opinion.  Not as an argument based on fact.

Learn your words.  It will make you seem less of a moron in the future.


----------



## Rusty (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> IPMC: Just go die eh... I really hope you do... then maybe you will see what you obviously wish upon so many people.



Now thats intelligent.


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 13, 2003)

Pianomahnn: Yeah... and terrorist attacks only occur in the USA.... yeah right! You ignorant fuck


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 13, 2003)

Piano: Do you by the way happen to speak my language? No...didn't think so.... then what makes you think that it's polite to critizise the way I speak yours?


----------



## Rusty (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Piano: Do you by the way happen to speak my language? No...didn't think so.... then what makes you think that it's polite to critizise the way I speak yours?



Cause your a fucking moron.........


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Pianomahnn: Yeah... and terrorist attacks only occur in the USA.... yeah right! You ignorant fuck



Hello. . .read the original poster's words please:



> but bush will get more of our own people killed in terrorist attacks



In no way is the poster refering to other countries.  Hence my statment:



> Terrorist attacks will not cease, regardless of war, unless one of two things occur: (1) All terrorists are eradicated from this planet, or (2) The entire population of the United States is eradicated from this planet.


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 13, 2003)

IPMC: Shut up and die... real soon... please?


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Piano: Do you by the way happen to speak my language? No...didn't think so.... then what makes you think that it's polite to critizise the way I speak yours?



When you use words which are wrong, I have a reason to criticise them.

You're mistakingly characterising something which is clearly something else.

You were clearly wrong and I called you on it.

edit:  And telling someone to die (IPMC) _is_ polite?


----------



## bludevil (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> You refer to God. Does christianity support the killing of many innocent people (35.000 last time USA invaded Iraq)? Does "Thou shall NOT kill" ring a bell?
> What makes you think that god is on your side not matter what you do? In other words... how dare you use the name of God like that?



What a total moran. Man, if your not a christian please don't try to quote the bible. It only makes you look more ignorant than you already are. Just like IMPC stated, if you read your bible, God is on the side of Right. Do you think God wants his christians to just let people slaughter them without giving a fight. God supports fighting as long as your fighting for Right. ie.. David and Goliath

*Could someone please ban BergMaster*


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 13, 2003)

Bluedevil: You are NOT being slaughtered. That's the point!


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by bludevil *_
> 
> *Could someone please ban BergMaster*



I enjoy debate, please no banning.


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 13, 2003)

Bluedevil... How about turning the other cheek? I live by the new testament and not the old one...


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Bluedevil... How about turning the other cheek? I live by the new testament and not the old one...



By telling someone to die?

My how God must be proud of your actions now.


----------



## bludevil (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Bluedevil: You are NOT being slaughtered. That's the point!



We will be if we don't stop terrorrism moran. How many more innocent lives will have to be lost before you think we're not being slaughtered. What do you call all the innocent victims of 9/11. The deeper this argument gets the more ignorant you become.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 13, 2003)

We should stop name calling.  It's not healthy debate!

Present facts to prove your point, not calling him names (however true they may be).


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 13, 2003)

Bluedevil: What do you call the innocent victims of all the wars USA has participated in (started?).


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 13, 2003)

call it what you want. Killing innocent people is terrible...


----------



## bludevil (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Bluedevil... How about turning the other cheek? I live by the new testament and not the old one...



I live by the new testament too, and I was referring to the new testament when i posted my last reply. The Lord Jesus Christ does not want his christians innocently killed. Just think about it, why do you think the USA and Isreal have 2 of the biggest armed forces in the WORLD, and both nations are Christians by majority. Let me tell you, it's not by coincidense.


----------



## ALBOB (Mar 13, 2003)

Damn this gets old after a while.  

OK RC, here's the deal, Iraq and N. Korea are BOTH threats.  Absolutely true.  The difference, so far, is that Saddam has PROVEN he will attack without provocation.  Remember Kuwait?  It's also been PROVEN he supports terrorism.  No, I'm not saying he's directly responsible for 9/11 but he DOES want something like that to happen again and he wants it to happen SOON and be even more massive and he's helping the organizations that will end up making it happen.  Now, N. Korea is also run by an idiot, maybe even a lunatic, but he hasn't attacked anyone yet.  I, like you, don't think we should wait until AFTER he kills a few thousand people to do something about it but like I said before, Saddam has already done that so he's the bigger threat.  In addition, we're TRYING to get some of the other countries in the region, who WILL be effected by the N. Korean moron, to do something about him and not just stand around with their thumbs up their asses asking why the U.S. isn't doing something about him.  FUCK THAT, it's time they started doing something for themselves.  I completely agree with DaMayor, Isolationism is wrong but DAMN, somebody's got to help us out OCASIONALLY. 

You listed some of our supposed attrocities from the past, don't do that again.  That's not a threat, it's a suggestion to help you not make yourself look like a fool.  History is just that, HISTORY.  What's done is done and you can't change it.  It also has no bearing on the current situation.  You mentioned the Japanese and WWII, if you'll check your history THEY attacked US.  We've gotten over it and now they're one of our greatest allies.  It's time you got over it too.  Also, comparing Iraq's judicial system to ours and saying we're barbarians because we have a greater percentage of our population in jail than any other country is rediculous.  You may be correct on the % but, so what?  Would you rather we left our criminals out on the street.  No, I suppose not, let's just execute them all, that would lower our percentage and then you'd be happy, right?  Sound like a plan??? 

You WANT us to get our asses kicked???  I'm too flabbergasted to even comprehend that statement, much less reply to it.  Speaking as a memeber of YOUR armed forces I guess I'll just say thanks a lot for your fucking support.  Libertarian?  You sound more like Jane Fonda and/or Sean Penn to me.


----------



## Rusty (Mar 13, 2003)

Click here


----------



## bludevil (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Bluedevil: What do you call the innocent victims of all the wars USA has participated in (started?).




With any war, there is always going to be innoncent lives lost, which is a trajedy. But let me tell you this, Innocent lives lost in a war want even begin to measure up to all the innocent lives lost if we dont stop terrorism and get that insane Saddamm out of power.


----------



## ALBOB (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> You refer to God. Does christianity support the killing of many innocent people (35.000 last time USA invaded Iraq)?



Where in the world do you keep coming up what that number???  I'm now officially calling your bluff.  PROVE IT.  Show me EXACTLY where and how WE killed 35,000 "innocent" people.  We may have killed 35,000 Iraqis in that war but they sure as hell weren't innocent civilians.  (Unless, of course, you're going to plaster an Iraqi newspaper up here and then everyone will realize how naieve that statement is.)


----------



## Rusty (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by ALBOB *_
> Where in the world do you keep coming up what that number???  I'm now officially calling your bluff.  PROVE IT.  Show me EXACTLY where and how WE killed 35,000 "innocent" people.  We may have killed 35,000 Iraqis in that war but they sure as hell weren't innocent civilians.  (Unless, of course, you're going to plaster an Iraqi newspaper up here and then everyone will realize how naieve that statement is.)




ya, I'll call bullshit on that one too..........


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> IPMC: Shut up and die... real soon... please?



First of all, you sorry bastard, THAT was over the line. You are a hypocritical jackass. 
To answer your petty question, I only get aggressive when someone pushes well beyond the limits of debate. You picked this fight, pal. So quit bitchin' about getting your ass kicked.

What have you or your country done to contribute to the elimination of terrorism, or the ousting of dictators? What has YOUR COUNTRY done to make the situation better? What options can you offer? And what qualifies you to even attempt to comment on any of the aspects we're arguing over here? NOTHING.  Why? because you are too small..and too weak....which is clearly exemplified by your attitude and lack of argumentative grounds. Be careful before that rotten soap box collapses beneath you. And don't insult my friends. Loser.


----------



## Tboy (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> IPMC: Shut up and die... real soon... please?




Very uncalled for, and extreemly dis-tastefull.

Crap like this will get your butt kicked 1000 times over.


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 13, 2003)

don't see anyone kicking my butt!


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> don't see anyone kicking my butt!



But you're not rebuting any of my points, either.

You kind of did an "insult and run."

I was hoping for a debate here.


----------



## Bladezz (Mar 13, 2003)

Hey, hey!!  We are all very tense about this subject.

On another note:  If you guys are "interested".....our troops need our support, so if you would like to do something for them while they are away from their families...here is link  http://www.adoptaplatoon.org/

You can send packs of packaged goodies (cookies, popcorn, canned or flip-top goodies), magazines; and little kids can even send letters to them while they are away!  Great morale booster


----------



## Rusty (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Bladezz *_
> Hey, hey!!  We are all very tense about this subject.
> 
> On another note:  If you guys are "interested".....our troops need our support, so if you would like to do something for them while they are away from their families...here is link  http://www.adoptaplatoon.org/
> ...




Ya think we could send the bergpussy over there for our troops.  They need something to practice on............


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 13, 2003)

Pianomahnn: I would like a debate very much, but people keep insulting me and taking these things personally so of course I get pissed too after a while. We had another thread going a short while ago, where some of the same people that are participating in this discussion, said that USA should just bomb everything that's not red, white and blue. I came up with the best arguments I could find but was met with extreme hostility.

I'm not whining...just telling you why a healthy debate is impossible to have here.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Pianomahnn: I would like a debate very much, but people keep insulting me and taking these things personally so of course I get pissed too after a while. We had another thread going a short while ago, where some of the same people that are participating in this discussion, said that USA should just bomb everything that's not red, white and blue. I came up with the best arguments I could find but was met with extreme hostility.
> 
> I'm not whining...just telling you why a healthy debate is impossible to have here.



*sigh*



> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master*_
> Pianomahnn: Yeah... and terrorist attacks only occur in the USA.... yeah right! You ignorant fuck



Seems they're not the only ones being insulting.

Now, either ignore those people and debate reasonably with facts instead of name calling, or don't.  But blaming others for your inabilty to debate isn't a good idea.  By all accounts, I should've given up due to your insult which I quoted.


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 13, 2003)

Berg, again, your literal interpretation of the generic "bomb em' all" comments is way off. 

Extreme hostility? You've insulted my Country, my President, and my friends....What do you expect? DenseMaster's more like it.


----------



## ALBOB (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by ALBOB *_
> Where in the world do you keep coming up what that number???  I'm now officially calling your bluff.  PROVE IT.  Show me EXACTLY where and how WE killed 35,000 "innocent" people.  We may have killed 35,000 Iraqis in that war but they sure as hell weren't innocent civilians.  (Unless, of course, you're going to plaster an Iraqi newspaper up here and then everyone will realize how naieve that statement is.)



To The Berg Master: I can honestly say I don't remember EVER insulting you are resorting to name calling.  Yes, I do remember doing that one time but it was in a completely different thread and directed at someone else, not you.  Now, you say you want to continue this debate?  Fine, answer my question above.  Remember one thing, true debate is based on FACTS.  So far I don't think you're participating in TRUE debate.


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 13, 2003)

tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick......


----------



## MJ23 (Mar 13, 2003)

Oh, what have I been missing...


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 13, 2003)

Shhhhh. We're melting an ice cube.


----------



## ALBOB (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> Shhhhh. We're melting an ice cube.



I thought we were watching paint dry?


----------



## Tboy (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by ALBOB *_
> I thought we were watching paint dry?



Don't tell me you're painting your nails now...


----------



## Rusty (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Tboy *_
> Don't tell me you're painting your nails now...



Albob, you got to admit, that was  funny............


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 13, 2003)

I thought it was funny...


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> Are you familiar with Isolationism? Isolationists get their ass' kicked, and rightly so.
> If the U.S. ever get's it's ass kicked, I hope the first bomb lands in your living room. Of course, this will never happen, so in the mean time we'll just have to put up people who regurgitate generalities from their recent history lesson.



last time i checked switzerland stays out of every war that comes its way, and they haven't been attacked by anyone in hundreds of years, everyone leaves them be.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> For someone who doesn't hate Americans, your public relations skills are extremely lacking. Have trouble with relationships, Berg?
> You know, Berg, you are nothing more than an instigator. Your opinions are groundless, and, while you just made a feeble attempt to befriend someone, you have no allies here. So why don't you just take a hike? You're a petty, insignificant, little toy soldier in Denmark...so how about marching your ass outta here.
> Double Time....Jerk.



listen jackass, he's just trying to express a point, and it will take a jackass like me to stoop to your level of argumenting for him. his points have a lot more ground then yours, since you just said that isolationists get their asses kicked, and i disproved you, and it will take me a while but i will reply to all of pianomahn stuff. and saying "kill them all and let god sort them out" just shows immaturity.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pianomahnn *_
> That is NOT a fact.  A fact is something which can be proven.  This cannot.  Especially not before something happens.
> 
> And let me clarify something;  Terrorist attacks will not cease, regardless of war, unless one of two things occur:  (1) All terrorists are eradicated from this planet, or (2) The entire population of the United States is eradicated from this planet.
> ...



no one said they would end, i said he would cause even more by doing this. and if you want to start shit with FACTs, then i want PROOF that saddam intened to USE weapons of mass destruction against our country.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pianomahnn *_
> When you use words which are wrong, I have a reason to criticise them.
> 
> You're mistakingly characterising something which is clearly something else.
> ...



id rather be told ot die than be called a fucking moron, *cough IPMC *cough


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by bludevil *_
> What a total moran. Man, if your not a christian please don't try to quote the bible. It only makes you look more ignorant than you already are. Just like IMPC stated, if you read your bible, God is on the side of Right. Do you think God wants his christians to just let people slaughter them without giving a fight. God supports fighting as long as your fighting for Right. ie.. David and Goliath
> 
> *Could someone please ban BergMaster*



yeah, but god doens't support nations that commit acts of homosexuality and immorality repeatedly as well as breaking all his other commandments without giving it a second tohught- i.e.- sodam and gamora


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by bludevil *_
> We will be if we don't stop terrorrism moran. How many more innocent lives will have to be lost before you think we're not being slaughtered. What do you call all the innocent victims of 9/11. The deeper this argument gets the more ignorant you become.



what the hell do YOU call all the innocent people our country has slaughtered over the years to supposedly track down "terrorists" what do YOU call the innocent middle easterns who died when one of clintons bombs missed its target and hit and aspirin factory, so americans would forget about his latest sex scandal.  What do you call the people who died the first time we invaded iraq.  the more you talk, the more stupid you sound.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by ALBOB *_
> Damn this gets old after a while.
> 
> OK RC, here's the deal, Iraq and N. Korea are BOTH threats.  Absolutely true.  The difference, so far, is that Saddam has PROVEN he will attack without provocation.  Remember Kuwait?  It's also been PROVEN he supports terrorism.  No, I'm not saying he's directly responsible for 9/11 but he DOES want something like that to happen again and he wants it to happen SOON and be even more massive and he's helping the organizations that will end up making it happen.  Now, N. Korea is also run by an idiot, maybe even a lunatic, but he hasn't attacked anyone yet.  I, like you, don't think we should wait until AFTER he kills a few thousand people to do something about it but like I said before, Saddam has already done that so he's the bigger threat.  In addition, we're TRYING to get some of the other countries in the region, who WILL be effected by the N. Korean moron, to do something about him and not just stand around with their thumbs up their asses asking why the U.S. isn't doing something about him.  FUCK THAT, it's time they started doing something for themselves.  I completely agree with DaMayor, Isolationism is wrong but DAMN, somebody's got to help us out OCASIONALLY.
> ...



albob, i commend you here for making a post without mindless flaming, which i myself will admit to doing when provocked. but last time i checked, iraq attacking kuwaitt was not iraq attacking our country. it was iraq attacking one of our oil suppliers, which would probably be why we went in. and for your info. we provoked japan into attacking us, i know my history. we cut of their supplies by refusing to export some of our goods they needed, even though we said we were nuetral the whole time.  its also been said that FDR and other big name government officials, put everyone in pearl harbor, god rest their souls, out in the middle of the ocean on purpose. they wanted them to get bombed so they could have a reason to go to war. whether you agree with this or not, you must agree that our government is corrupted to no end, and you can't put it past them
our "criminals" our mainly just peopel who could have not been there, if drugs were legalized.  but god forbid anyone should ahve a good time. and i will quote whatever histroy i want, since butterfly started this whole thread with an example of not letting go of something we did for the french almost 60 years ago.  and i respect that your a member of my armed forces, and i didn't say i wanted the u.s. to get its ass kicked. i said it deserves to ahve its ass kicked. in my opinion, they should send those scrawny ass washington buerecrats to fight and see how they like it, instead of our armed forces. my brother ships out for the persian gulf in two week on a navy destroyer, i know what its like to have someone in this war.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pianomahnn *_
> But you're not rebuting any of my points, either.
> 
> You kind of did an "insult and run."
> ...



piano, i will agree with you here, and elt me just say that im no supposed "allie" of berg master's in this debate, he just agrees with me on somethings, but presents tmhe wrong at times.  and IPMC, no personal beef here but you have been the biggest insult and runner ive ever seen in this thread, you haven't made a reasonable point of your own at all, just insulted others.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RCfootball87 *_
> no one said they would end, i said he would cause even more by doing this. and if you want to start shit with FACTs, then i want PROOF that saddam intened to USE weapons of mass destruction against our country.



It matters not wether he intended to use them on the United States or not.  Numerous United Nations' resolutions have _demanded_ of Saddam Hussein to destroy all of these weapons.  He has failed to comply with them.  Included in these resolutions are statements allowing military action of compliance does not occur.  The United States is not "wrong" legally in using force in Iraq.

If the United States used the threat of foriegn nations assaulting our country as the only reason for military action we wouldn't do a damn thing around the world.


----------



## ShaqFu (Mar 13, 2003)

Americans are ignorant and violent.. a nasty combination.

If you're one the exceptions to this rule, I feel sorry for you being surrounded by these people.

Just my two cents.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pianomahnn *_
> It matters not wether he intended to use them on the United States or not.  Numerous United Nations' resolutions have _demanded_ of Saddam Hussein to destroy all of these weapons.  He has failed to comply with them.  Included in these resolutions are statements allowing military action of compliance does not occur.  The United States is not "wrong" legally in using force in Iraq.
> 
> If the United States used the threat of foriegn nations assaulting our country as the only reason for military action we wouldn't do a damn thing around the world.



yeah, btu who the hell is the u.n. to tell them to disarm? we're just bullying everyone else with a big coalition of power.  if the shoe is on the other foor someday, they're gonna knock the snot out of us for this.


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RCfootball87 *_
> yeah, btu who the hell is the u.n. to tell them to disarm? we're just bullying everyone else with a big coalition of power.  if the shoe is on the other foor someday, they're gonna knock the snot out of us for this.



The U.N.? Um, its called Goverment.


As far as my comments are concerned.......Could I have approached these issues differently? Yes, I most definately could have. Could I have been more diplomatic, and worded my rebuttles more tactfully? Yes,I could have been polite, and allowed someone who is not even an American citizen to insult my country, and my friends, and myself, even so far as to tell one of them to "die...soon". 
Now, what would you have done? Kept quiet? Used proper debate decorum? Waited for your turn? Held your hand up quietly, until called upon? Oh, I have no doubt that you would have. But you see, that's the difference between you and I.....I can play the game both ways, and when it is time to defend, I am on point...at the ready. Both literally and figuratively.
So you need to make damn sure that the points you blatently attempt to make are justified and valid before pointing your feeble little finger at others. Because when you make people angry, things are going to get messy.  I appologize if my passion and patriotism is too much for you and others to handle......my advice would be to not pick a fight if you can't take the hits......football..yeah right.


----------



## Rusty (Mar 14, 2003)

OK,........here this all you fucking morons.............YES that includes you RC, Corry, Bergpussy, freshfruit......................

The only question that matters is.........
_"Has Sadam Husain Disarmed?"_

If you cant answer yes then get outta here, You have nothing worth saying.


Bomb them all and let god sort them out.
And the next time someone says I post shit and run, look at the post counts..........what a dumbass statement.


----------



## ZECH (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RCfootball87 *_
> what the hell do YOU call all the innocent people our country has slaughtered over the years to supposedly track down "terrorists" what do YOU call the innocent middle easterns who died when one of clintons bombs missed its target and hit and aspirin factory, so americans would forget about his latest sex scandal.  What do you call the people who died the first time we invaded iraq.  the more you talk, the more stupid you sound.


One more fucker we won't have to kill!! BTW, now Bush is meeting with Spain and Britain this weekend. No vote on the UN resolution is going to happen. They say fuck the UN. Now it's a coalition of the willing!!! Corri, your statement was also stupid.


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 14, 2003)

Boy, this is getting fuqing boring. I wish we'd just say fuq it and start this thing so we have something different to argue about.  I can't wait for the day when we can say "See, we told you so" to all the nay sayers.


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 14, 2003)

I agree. I vote we leave the formally trained debators and fence straddlers to themselves.
Oh, and AlBob.


----------



## ALBOB (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_I vote we leave the formally trained debators and fence straddlers to themselves. Oh, and AlBob.



Gee thanks    OK folks, I don't have time to fully reply to this thread today, gotta go play some desert games.   Keep up the discussion until I get back on Monday but please, try to keep it somewhat clean.  In the end we all want the same thing, peace.  We just have different views of how to achieve it.  Later


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 14, 2003)

You're Welcome. Now back to the Sand Box! Bang! Bang! You're it!


----------



## Rusty (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by ALBOB *_
> Gee thanks    OK folks, I don't have time to fully reply to this thread today, gotta go play some desert games.   Keep up the discussion until I get back on Monday but please, try to keep it somewhat clean.  In the end we all want the same thing, peace.  We just have different views of how to achieve it.  Later



Ya, bomb first then ask questions.


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 14, 2003)

Wait a minute! Are they shipping you out? Or are you playing? 

Shaw's been shaking my windows for a month now! Damn fighters! How a guy to get his beauty sleep?


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 14, 2003)

Here Here!


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 14, 2003)

tidalwaverus: Did you also know that USA is the only country that owes money for their membership of UN/NATO etc.? So shut the fuck up. We don't owe you shite...


----------



## Rusty (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> tidalwaverus: Did you also know that USA is the only country that owes money for their membership of UN/NATO etc.? So shut the fuck up. We don't owe you shite...




Big deal.  Looks like the UN is going down the drain anyhow.  Looks like we saved our money.  And you have spent everything you have..................


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> tidalwaverus: Did you also know that USA is the only country that owes money for their membership of UN/NATO etc.? So shut the fuck up. We don't owe you shite...




We've spent more money than we owe by assisting other member countries.  Looks like the UN owes us one.


----------



## ShaqFu (Mar 14, 2003)

Who is really asking the Americans to protect us from the big bad Iraq anyway?

Is your government gonna be doing us a favour by taking over their oil wells for us when the war is over and done with too?

Why do none of you question your governement? Is their brainwashing THAT GOOD? War is NEVER the answer! that's what the UN and the rest of the world is trying to tell you.. WAKE THE FUQ UP.


----------



## Rusty (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Corri *_
> Who the fuq is asking you Yankees to protect us from the big bad Iraq anyway?
> 
> Are you gonna be doing us a favour by taking over their oil wells for us when the war is over and done with too?
> ...



The whold world is asking us to step in.  Have you not been reading the threads on this topic?  Did you just land on planet earth?  

we are going to liberate the oil along with the people of Iraq, from their dictator...........Again, where have you been?

Why should we question, what we know is correct and true.


I'm so tired of these leftest thinking pigs..........


----------



## ShaqFu (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by IPMC *_
> The whold world is asking us to step in.  Have you not been reading the threads on this topic?  Did you just land on planet earth?



Here in Canada we haven't asked you. THe UN is asking you not too. Who is this "whole world" you're talking about? 



> we are going to liberate the oil along with the people of Iraq, from their dictator...........Again, where have you been?


Liberate? Or create a more profitable situation.



> Why should we question, what we know is correct and true.


Yeah, cause every politician in the world is full of shit, EXCEPT yours.


> I'm so tired of these leftest thinking pigs..........



We get tired of you too. Especially when people like you have guns and bombs in their hands.


----------



## MJ23 (Mar 14, 2003)

I am sure under all their clothes, there are some IRaqi Fine women...


----------



## Rusty (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Corri *_
> Here in Canada we haven't asked you.


You sure bout that.......Cause I know for certian that the Canadian Government is involoved.



> THe UN is asking you not too. Who is this "whole world" you're talking about?


The UN is not asking anyone anything.  The UN is made up of member nations.  You need to do your homework son.........
Are you really reading any of this stuff or are you just posting for the hell of it?




> Liberate? Or create a more profitable situation.


Since we get most of our oil from Canada, I would say we are trying to liberate the oil along with the people of Iraq.  You didn't think I caught your little creative editing did you?




> Yeah, cause every politician in the world is full of shit, EXCEPT yours.


Nope, we have allot that are full of shit.  Just so happens that G.W. Is not one of them.



> We get tired of you too. Especially when people like you have guns and bombs in their hands.




You need to pay a visit to Oklahoma..........You'll see what having our hands on our guns is about.


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 14, 2003)

FYI Corry,  The UN Security Council doesn't accurately represent the views of all the members of the UN since not all member nations are on the Security Council.


----------



## ShaqFu (Mar 14, 2003)

You've misread soemthing. Chretien was one the front page of the news paper saying he does not agree that their needs to be a war. We're involved, but we're against war. As are most nations outisde your own.

As for creative editing, I just toned down the hostility.. I didn't change anything I said.


----------



## mmafiter (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Corri *_
> Here in Canada we haven't asked you. THe UN is asking you not too. Who is this "whole world" you're talking about?
> 
> *I'm Canadian, and I think they should blow Iraq to hell.*
> ...


----------



## ShaqFu (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Rob_NC *_
> FYI Corry,  The UN Security Council doesn't accurately represent the views of all the members of the UN since not all member nations are on the Security Council.



True too. There are nations that are with you, and they have their reasons.

I'm only one Canadian, so it probably doesn't matter, but I'm not buying any of Bush's bullshit.


----------



## MJ23 (Mar 14, 2003)

Gentelmen - Please the Back the Fuck Off Corri..


IP, help me out here bro, there is no need to gang up on the guy, 
share your opinion, ask for proper justification and seek the meaning behind it



Hoaw about throwing some canadian pussy in there


----------



## Rusty (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Corri *_
> You've misread soemthing. Chretien was one the front page of the news paper saying he does not agree that their needs to be a war. We're involved, but we're against war. As are most nations outisde your own.
> 
> As for creative editing, I just toned down the hostility.. I didn't change anything I said.



NO, I have not missed anything.........I realize you don't know what the shit your talking about.  And your leftest views are jaded by your inability to see the truth in any matter.  So before you come back here spewing that crap, get your facts straight.

And before you respond to this msg.  can you answere this question. _Has Sadam Husian disarmed_

If you can't answer the question, don't bother posting.


----------



## mmafiter (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Corri *_
> I'm only one Canadian, so it probably doesn't matter, but I'm not buying any of Bush's bullshit.



Good for you. I disagree with your position, but I think it's great you are able to publicly state your opinion freely without fear of torture or death, like some countries such as......oh I don't know.........Iraq?


----------



## MJ23 (Mar 14, 2003)

Why cannot we all get along..

I bet the right "Stripper" can turn Saddam into the friendliest creature out there...


----------



## ShaqFu (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by mmafiter *_
> Good for you. I disagree with your position, but I think it's great you are able to publicly state your opinion freely without fear of torture or death, like some countries such as......oh I don't know.........Iraq?



I like that point. But still, I don't agree that war is the answer. It never should be.

And IPMC, quit acting like your silly ideas are the be all and end all of this discussion.

Has Saddam disarmed? Maybe not.

Regardless, is war a good idea? Hell no.


----------



## mmafiter (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by MJ23 *_
> Gentelmen - Please the Back the Fuck Off Corri..



I agree. I really don't like the personal attacks. 

Debate, don't hate.


----------



## Rusty (Mar 14, 2003)

*General "Black Jack" Pershing*

General "Black Jack" Pershing was born September 13th, 1860 near Laclede, MS. he died July 15th, 1948 in Washington, D.C.

Highlights of his life include:

1891 Professor of Military Science and Tactics, University of Nebraska
1898 Serves in the Spanish-American War
1901 Awarded rank of Captain
1906 Promoted to rank of Brigadier General
1909 Military Governor of Moro Province, Philippines
1916 Made Major General
1919 Promoted to General of the Armies
1921 Appointed Chief of Staff
1924 Retires from active duty Education West Point.

Just before World War I, there were a number of terrorist attacks on the United States forces in the Philippines by Muslim extremists.  So General Pershing captured 50 terrorists and had them tied to posts for execution.  He then had his men bring in two pigs and slaughter them in front of the, now horrified, terrorists.

Muslims detest pork because they believe pigs are filthy animals.  Some of them simply refuse to eat it, while others won't even touch pigs at all, nor any of their by-products.  To them, eating or touching a pigs meat, its blood, etc., is to be instantly barred from paradise (and those virgins) and doomed to hell.

The soldiers then soaked their bullets in the pigs blood, and proceeded to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad.  The soldiers then dug a big hole, dumped in the terrorist's bodies and covered them in pig blood, entrails, etc.  They let the 50th man go.  And for the next forty-two years, there was not a single Muslim extremist attack anywhere in the world.

Maybe it is time for this segment of history to repeat itself, maybe in Iraq?  The question is, where do we find another Black Jack Pershing?


----------



## Rusty (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Corri *_
> I like that point. But still, I don't agree that war is the answer. It never should be.
> 
> And IPMC, quit acting like your silly ideas are the be all and end all of this discussion.
> ...




It's pointless..........He will not listen to reason.............

I'm so fucking tired of these morons................


----------



## ShaqFu (Mar 14, 2003)

You're not reasonable.

You're angry and violent. Your posts involve too much of people being "fucking morons" when they don't agree with you and your Pershing dude was a nut.


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Corri *_
> I like that point. But still, I don't agree that war is the answer. It never should be.
> 
> And IPMC, quit acting like your silly ideas are the be all and end all of this discussion.
> ...




Corri,  for most of us here, we understand that war shouldn't be the first option - only the last. But is should always be an option when all else fails.

Diplomacy worked to disarm South Africa. Diplomacy has been shoved back in the face of the UN for the last 12 years by SD.  I don't see the point of continuing to walk a path that leads nowhere.


----------



## ShaqFu (Mar 14, 2003)

You see, that's where we disagree then Rob_NC.

First, I think Bush is jumping the gun, stepping over other valid options.. and second, I don't think war should even be an option here, last or otherwise.


----------



## Rusty (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Corri *_
> You're not reasonable.
> 
> You're angry and violent.



YEP....I'm an angry, Violent American with a shitty attitude.



> Your posts involve too much of people being "fucking morons" when they don't agree with you


So quite being a fucking Moron and pull your head outta your ass.  And use it for something besides a hat rack.



> and your Pershing dude was a nut.


you a master of US history now?


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 14, 2003)

If war can't be an option, what do you suggest?


----------



## ShaqFu (Mar 14, 2003)

No master of history.. he sounds like a nut from your story.

And there you go again with the "fucking moron" comments. You're really only taking away from your own argument by resorting to name calling.


----------



## Rusty (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Corri *_
> No master of history.. he sounds like a nut from your story.
> 
> And there you go again with the "fucking moron" comments. You're really only taking away from your own argument by resorting to name calling.



No dipshit...........think about it.


Sadam has not disarmed and he will not untill he is made to......

Your argument has no merit........


----------



## ShaqFu (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Rob_NC *_
> If war can't be an option, what do you suggest?



You've got me there.. I'm no political genius who can invent the perfect strategy. I don't know and I don't care how they do it, but it shouldn't be done with war. It should never be done with war.


----------



## ShaqFu (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by IPMC *_
> No dipshit...........think about it.
> 
> 
> ...



What? You know him personally?

Or are you regurgitating the views of your biased American pre-war propaganda.


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Corri *_
> You've got me there.. I'm no political genius who can invent the perfect strategy. I don't know and I don't care how they do it, but it shouldn't be done with war. It should never be done with war.




You see, that's where the problem is.  The countries opposed to war can't offer up anything better either.  France and Germany want to put more inspectors in place for a longer time.  The ONLY way that will work is if Saddam isn't moving shit around ahead of the inspections.  SD isn't offering any cooperation now, do you think he will later?


----------



## ShaqFu (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Rob_NC *_
> You see, that's where the problem is.  The countries opposed to war can't offer up anything better either.  France and Germany want to put more inspectors in place for a longer time.  The ONLY way that will work is if Saddam isn't moving shit around ahead of the inspections.  SD isn't offering any cooperation now, do you think he will later?



You're right. It's beyond difficult, and it's always harder to come up with a peaceful solution than it is to say "Fuck it, let's bomb them."

But people should be more focused on finding this sort of solution as opposed to preparing for war.


----------



## ShaqFu (Mar 14, 2003)

K, sorry I can't continue but I've got to go get to work.

Hope no one took anything personal, but yeah.. if the debate keeps going, watch all the personal attacks.


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Corri *_
> You're right. It's beyond difficult, and it's always harder to come up with a peaceful solution than it is to say "Fuck it, let's bomb them."
> 
> I can only sit here and pray that they come to a better solution before thousands of young men are dead and buried over this.




I think we should keep in mind the advancements that today's military have made since the last Gulf War.  What with precision guided weapons and other technically advanced munitions, combat by ground troops is less of a necessity.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 14, 2003)

My my my my my my . . . 

A whole lot of name calling going on here without much functional debate.

I'm saddened.  

I'm also off to my cabin for the weekend.  So have fun calling each other names while continuing not to prove any points.


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by MJ23 *_
> IP, help me out here bro, there is no need to gang up on the guy,
> share your opinion, ask for proper justification and seek the meaning behind it



Considering the source, this is HILLARIOUS!!!!


----------



## ZECH (Mar 14, 2003)

I agree with IPMC.................he has not disarmed and will not until we kill him. Do you want us to do nothing and let him attack more innocent people and kill them?? He will if we give him more time and just sit here like a bunch of dumbasses. He is laughing his ass off right now at the UN. He knows everyone will not agree and never do anything. But that is where The good ol USA comes in! We are smart enough and have the power to do something rather everyone else likes it or not!


----------



## Scotty the Body (Mar 14, 2003)

I'm not for war but you have to wonder, for every weapon So Dumb gives up, how many do you think he's making? 

Do you think he would be turning over these weapons if the US wasn't breathing down his neck with threats of war, I don't think so. 

What will end this whole thing? When SoDumb is Dead.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by IPMC *_
> OK,........here this all you fucking morons.............YES that includes you RC, Corry, Bergpussy, freshfruit......................
> 
> The only question that matters is.........
> ...



how about we disarm first? my point is what gives this country and the U.N. countries the right to own weapons of mass destruction, and no one else? we're just using power to bully smaller countries into compliance with our wishes. this is my belief, and it doens't make me a fucking moron.  i have been an american citizne since the day i was born here, and if oyu want to get into patriotism bullshit, your being unpatriotic by not repecting other people's right to have there own opinions and speech.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by IPMC *_
> The whold world is asking us to step in.  Have you not been reading the threads on this topic?  Did you just land on planet earth?
> 
> we are going to liberate the oil along with the people of Iraq, from their dictator...........Again, where have you been?
> ...



the whole world isn't asking us to step in, and a lot those tiny countries that are, are only doing so because if they don't we'll boycott there countries exports and say some "with us or against us" bullshit . IP. you know nothing aobut what your talking about, and continue to make redicioulous unjustified statements, to put it in terms you'll understand: you're talking out of your ass.  and no one likes someone with bad breath


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by tidalwaverus *_
> Well , how would you like first dibbs on one of their suitcase dirty bombs in your city?
> 
> Wake up! hilter would have used it and so will this asshole if he is not stopped!



no one would bobmb canada cause they're not the war crazy sons of bitches our government is.  and hitler died 60 years ago, its time to quit comparing everyone to hitler. if you want a dictator, read about joseph stallon he killed way more than hitler. oh, sorry, my mistkate, people like you only read the bullshit propaganda our government puts out, telling you hitler was the worst dictator ever, sorry for the miscue.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by mmafiter *_
> Good for you. I disagree with your position, but I think it's great you are able to publicly state your opinion freely without fear of torture or death, like some countries such as......oh I don't know.........Iraq?



if the government read all the things ive said aobut this, id fear for my life.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Corri *_
> What? You know him personally?
> 
> Or are you regurgitating the views of your biased American pre-war propaganda.



that was a good one and true at the same time. the perfect slam.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> I agree with IPMC.................he has not disarmed and will not until we kill him. Do you want us to do nothing and let him attack more innocent people and kill them?? He will if we give him more time and just sit here like a bunch of dumbasses. He is laughing his ass off right now at the UN. He knows everyone will not agree and never do anything. But that is where The good ol USA comes in! We are smart enough and have the power to do something rather everyone else likes it or not!



we're not smart, educationally or otherwise.  we're internationaly bullie, essentially the ultimate international terrorists, in our own way, and we coudl give a shit about the lives we take.  this country is spoiled and when it doens't get its way, results to violence against defenseless coutnries, yet ginores bigger threats because its to pussy to fight them.  its the bully from elementary school, who always beat up the little kids but never took on anyone his own size,  avoiding fights with bigger guys cause he's a pussy.  i jsut wish big bro' of the little guys would show up and teach this bully a lesson.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 14, 2003)

i have a question to ask of everyone here, that i think will pretty much some up my point: how would you like it if a foreign muslem nation came waltzing into our country and told us to destroy our armaments because if we didn't we would kill someone with them, and they would kill us?  well i imagine we'd be pissed.  how would you like it if this nation, after conquring our defenseless selves, put in a government that was opposed to our religion and everything we wanted? how would you like it, if after the whole world forgot they were here, their soldiers slept with your wives and daughters, and when they got knocked up, hired them to clean the house on a foreign paycheck ten times what you could ever make?  the first two things our what we're going to do to iraq, the third is what we already did to the phillipines before we finally got out in recent years. this government is a twisted bunch of fools who are corrupt to no end, and dont mind splling innocent bllod and pissing off the world to get their own ways. quit listening to propaganda, and tihnk for yourselves.


----------



## ZECH (Mar 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RCfootball87 *_
> we're not smart, educationally or otherwise.  we're internationaly bullie, essentially the ultimate international terrorists, in our own way, and we coudl give a shit about the lives we take.  this country is spoiled and when it doens't get its way, results to violence against defenseless coutnries, yet ginores bigger threats because its to pussy to fight them.  its the bully from elementary school, who always beat up the little kids but never took on anyone his own size,  avoiding fights with bigger guys cause he's a pussy.  i jsut wish big bro' of the little guys would show up and teach this bully a lesson.


RC, the difference here is we are not running around killing innocent people with our weapons and do not support terroists like Sadaam does. If he didn't threaten anyone I doubt this would be taking place. There are other countries that developed nuclear capabilities. But now even Pakistan and India worry me because they are constantly at each other. And North Korea right now with it's current leader is a definate threat. He has treated his people about the same as Sadaam and the whole country is starving and very poor! I'm sure  since you don't like the US since you're talking so down to it, that another muslim country would take you in! Oh I imagine you wouldn't go...I wonder why???????


----------



## ZECH (Mar 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RCfootball87 *_
> if you want a dictator, read about joseph stallon he killed way more than hitler.


I don't think so........................prove it. I think you are the one throwing around untruths! If you can't do anything but falsely throw accusations, please do us a favor and do it somewhere else.


----------



## vic vicious (Mar 15, 2003)

look here it's this simple as a former soldier of the US ARMY i have this to say 20 years ago(give or take) we help that shit hole Afganistan so Russia would not take them over and look what they did, we ignored everything they did to their people and country and what do they do "DROP 2 NOT 1 BUT2 F@#$ING BUILDINGS" so screw all them camel jockeys, ragheads,sandni@#ers whatever you want to call them and if I were still in i pity the fool who steps in front of my weapon.

also to all of you pussies that are to afraid to defend your country love America or get the F out i for one am tired of hearing all of the pansies crying we are killing innocent people just remember all the people in the planes and building on 9/11. Unless i'm wrong weren't they also innocent

so in conclusion "if you don't like me, WELL THEN BITE ME"


----------



## vic vicious (Mar 15, 2003)

hey butterfly check your mail


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> RC, the difference here is we are not running around killing innocent people with our weapons and do not support terroists like Sadaam does. If he didn't threaten anyone I doubt this would be taking place. There are other countries that developed nuclear capabilities. But now even Pakistan and India worry me because they are constantly at each other. And North Korea right now with it's current leader is a definate threat. He has treated his people about the same as Sadaam and the whole country is starving and very poor! I'm sure  since you don't like the US since you're talking so down to it, that another muslim country would take you in! Oh I imagine you wouldn't go...I wonder why???????



actually we are running around killing innocent people wit houre weapons, whether we intend to or not.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by vic vicious *_
> look here it's this simple as a former soldier of the US ARMY i have this to say 20 years ago(give or take) we help that shit hole Afganistan so Russia would not take them over and look what they did, we ignored everything they did to their people and country and what do they do "DROP 2 NOT 1 BUT2 F@#$ING BUILDINGS" so screw all them camel jockeys, ragheads,sandni@#ers whatever you want to call them and if I were still in i pity the fool who steps in front of my weapon.
> 
> also to all of you pussies that are to afraid to defend your country love America or get the F out i for one am tired of hearing all of the pansies crying we are killing innocent people just remember all the people in the planes and building on 9/11. Unless i'm wrong weren't they also innocent
> ...



Iraq wasn't resonsible for 9/11 you prejudice fool. just cause they have the same skin color of the terrorists, none of whom were from iraq, doens't mean thy're the same people.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by tidalwaverus *_
> Well well , But I'll give you 1 million reasons your wrong
> how about
> 
> ...



both my grandpa's and numerous uncle's fought in WWII, so don't come to me with your crap about it, i have every much right as you do, my family was there.  and i am willing to pick up a gun and defend the people of this country, just not working for the government. the difference between takign out a bank robber while carrying with a concelaed carry permit, and killing innocent muslims with our government.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by butterfly *_
> enough said...




i'll give all you one reason we should agree with the french on everything- they were the reason we got our independence. if it wasn't for the french coming and bailing us out, england would have won and we wouln'dt be here.  IF IT WASN'T FOR THE FRENCH THERE WOULDN'T EVNE BE A UNITED STATES!!! so dont' start with the bull about normandy beach. enough said.


----------



## ZECH (Mar 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RCfootball87 *_
> actually we are running around killing innocent people wit houre weapons, whether we intend to or not.


That's because Sadaam puts them in harms way!


----------



## ZECH (Mar 15, 2003)

*Re: Re: 10,943 reasons France should support the United States*



> _*Originally posted by RCfootball87 *_
> i'll give all you one reason we should agree with the french on everything- they were the reason we got our independence. if it wasn't for the french coming and bailing us out, england would have won and we wouln'dt be here.  IF IT WASN'T FOR THE FRENCH THERE WOULDN'T EVNE BE A UNITED STATES!!! so dont' start with the bull about normandy beach. enough said.


What in the hell are you talking about???????


----------



## ZECH (Mar 15, 2003)

How old are you RC?......................18????????


----------



## vic vicious (Mar 15, 2003)

anyway why should we wait for for the french to help us get saddam out iraq when they wouln't even help us get hitler out of france

and no i'm not prejudice' not when htey come to my country and we open are arms to them and the government opens thier check book and sends them to school to be doctors that we can't even understand a word they are saying because they didn't take the time to learn proper english but if i go to thier country i have to spesk thier language and i don't mean just people from the middle east i mean every country outside America


----------



## vic vicious (Mar 15, 2003)

here is a question for you guys to think about ;

If Iran attacked Iraq from behind do you think Greece will help?


----------



## vic vicious (Mar 15, 2003)

i have one more yjing to add to this it time for use to start acting like our nickname is and that is america is the "police force of the world" and the UN helped in giving us that name buy whenever their is trouble anywhere in the world they send use in to take care of it then they take over and keep it that way untill there is trouble again and they call on us again so who should lead the UN


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 15, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: 10,943 reasons France should support the United States*



> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> What in the hell are you talking about???????



the revolutionary war. we were practically defeated until the french bailed us out. if you wanna talk about past wars, the french were the reason we beat the english to win our independence, without them, there would be no U.S.A.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> How old are you RC?......................18????????



15, but I'm well learned.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by vic vicious *_
> anyway why should we wait for for the french to help us get saddam out iraq when they wouln't even help us get hitler out of france
> 
> and no i'm not prejudice' not when htey come to my country and we open are arms to them and the government opens thier check book and sends them to school to be doctors that we can't even understand a word they are saying because they didn't take the time to learn proper english but if i go to thier country i have to spesk thier language and i don't mean just people from the middle east i mean every country outside America



yes, you are ebing prejudice refering to a WIDE group of people as "they".  and, doesn't that sound a lot like what the pilgrims of this country did to the indians? then a efw years later we slaughtered thme and took their land. i will shoot down every point you make about history, so i suggest you stop.


----------



## ZECH (Mar 16, 2003)

RC, I think when you get older and your eyes open a little bit, you will see how foolish you are. As you get older like myself and others on this board, you will see how many things really are. You haven't even started learning yet. My friend you have lots to learn!!!


----------



## ZECH (Mar 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RCfootball87 *_
> yes, you are ebing prejudice refering to a WIDE group of people as "they".  and, doesn't that sound a lot like what the pilgrims of this country did to the indians? then a efw years later we slaughtered thme and took their land. i will shoot down every point you make about history, so i suggest you stop.


I'm sure you don't know jack about most of the history of this country so don't even go there!


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 16, 2003)

RCfootball87 is making sense...


----------



## mmafiter (Mar 16, 2003)




----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 16, 2003)

> _RCfootball87_
> Iraq wasn't resonsible for 9/11 you prejudice fool. just cause they have the same skin color of the terrorists, none of whom were from iraq, doens't mean thy're the same people.



Can you prove, without a doubt, that Iraq or persons living Iraq had zero involvement in the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001?



> _RCfootball87_
> actually we are running around killing innocent people wit houre weapons, whether we intend to or not.



Where are we running around and who are these innocent people?  Facts, sources, etc.



> _RCfootball87_
> have a question to ask of everyone here, that i think will pretty much some up my point: how would you like it if a foreign muslem nation came waltzing into our country and told us to destroy our armaments because if we didn't we would kill someone with them, and they would kill us? well i imagine we'd be pissed. how would you like it if this nation, after conquring our defenseless selves, put in a government that was opposed to our religion and everything we wanted?



A single Nation is not telling Iraq to disarm.  An entire group of Nations is telling Iraq to disarm.  After loosing the Persian Gulf War, Iraq signed a treaty which stated they would dispose of a whole lot of weapons they've yet to dispose of.  You're making up false scenarios.  No one is going into Iraq out of nowhere to steal their weapons and destroy the country.  Iraq knows what they're supposed to do, and they continue to not comply with certain documents they've agreed to comply with.  It's really that simple.




> _RCfootball87_
> quit listening to propaganda, and tihnk for yourselves.



Yet you've done nothing but plaster oppositional propaganda this whole thread.



> _RCfootball87_
> we're not smart, educationally or otherwise. we're internationaly bullie, essentially the ultimate international terrorists, in our own way, and we coudl give a shit about the lives we take. this country is spoiled and when it doens't get its way, results to violence against defenseless coutnries, yet ginores bigger threats because its to pussy to fight them. its the bully from elementary school, who always beat up the little kids but never took on anyone his own size, avoiding fights with bigger guys cause he's a pussy. i jsut wish big bro' of the little guys would show up and teach this bully a lesson.



Iraq is defenseless?  I see.  What are we disarming them of again?  Weapons.  And weapons create a defense.  And, once again, please site some sources of your seemingly endless knowledge fountain.  Where are these bigger threats and defenseless countries?



> _RCfootball87_
> how about we disarm first? my point is what gives this country and the U.N. countries the right to own weapons of mass destruction, and no one else? we're just using power to bully smaller countries into compliance with our wishes. this is my belief, and it doens't make me a fucking moron. i have been an american citizne since the day i was born here, and if oyu want to get into patriotism bullshit, your being unpatriotic by not repecting other people's right to have there own opinions and speech.



You make it seem like a single country has bad stuff while an antire world is left with sticks and stones to defend themselves.  Iraq agreed to remove the weapons.  An individual, in this case Saddam Hussein, who, at the moment of capability, released chemical weapons on innocent civilians cannot be trusted with them.  "We."  I'm slightly confused.  Are you including all of the Nations in the United Nations in the word "we?"  Because the've passed resolutions which force Iraq to disarm.  I sure hope you're not using "we" with only the United States of America in mind.  It would certainly be wrong.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> I'm sure you don't know jack about most of the history of this country so don't even go there!



you would know, since you live inside my head. what hell kind of statement is that? just cause im 15 doens't mean i dont know more about politics and world affairs than 90% of americans.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pianomahnn *_
> Can you prove, without a doubt, that Iraq or persons living Iraq had zero involvement in the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001?
> 
> 
> ...



can you prove without a doubt that iraq was? thats the way american justic works last time i checked: innocent utnil proven guilty, the other way would be called socialism.

during clinton's presidency we bombed an aspirin factory killing many innocent people, and no terrorist, so he could take america's sick little minds off another one of his sex scandals.

and others are saying they shouldn't. do you realize what you are saying when you say they agreed to comply? they dind't agree to shit, they were forced, they had no military and God knows what we would have done if they refuse to sign the treaty. telling someone sign or be killed isn't diplomacy, its a form of extortion, illegal in all 50 states.

their weapon are outdated peices of shit that couldn't hit the united states if they wanted to. you wanna tell me how they're going to deliver a weapon of mass destruction 10,000 miles, other than through the use of terrorists.

iraq causes threats to the u.s. like flies cause garbage.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RCfootball87 *_
> can you prove without a doubt that iraq was? thats the way american justic works last time i checked: innocent utnil proven guilty, the other way would be called socialism.



I never claimed they were.  But you claimed they absolutely were not, so you have to show your proof.  And answering a question with a question tends to elude that proof doesn't exist and it's merely an opinion, not fact, which is being presented.



> during clinton's presidency we bombed an aspirin factory killing many innocent people, and no terrorist, so he could take america's sick little minds off another one of his sex scandals.



What is the purpose of this statement?



> and others are saying they shouldn't. do you realize what you are saying when you say they agreed to comply? they dind't agree to shit, they were forced, they had no military and God knows what we would have done if they refuse to sign the treaty. telling someone sign or be killed isn't diplomacy, its a form of extortion, illegal in all 50 states.



Once again, you're implying a nation run by a dictator is somehow privy to the rights of the Citizens of the United States of America.  It signed a treaty.  It is also a member of the United Nations.  It has certain responsibilities to live up to as a member of the United Nations.  That's what happens in war.  Iraq invaded a, to use your own words, "defenseless" nation, and the we responded to the aid of that nation.  As the agressor, and after getting its ass kicked, Iraq signed the treaty.  It's as simple as that.  Please, stop trying to make Saddam Hussein out to be some little retarded boy being made fun of by his classmates.  Him and his associates know damn well what they are doing and the consequences of those actions.



> their weapon are outdated peices of shit that couldn't hit the united states if they wanted to. you wanna tell me how they're going to deliver a weapon of mass destruction 10,000 miles, other than through the use of terrorists.



Hear that?  It's the sound of 4 planes which don't exist anymore because they were used as weapons by a group of scraggly terrorists.  It's been proven that it doesn't take a whole lot of military might to wreak havoc on the homeland of the United States of America.  If Saddam desired, he could very easily break stuff here.  But it's not just the United States whom he threatens.  It's his own people and other nations (see Kuwait).  In this case Saddam Hussein is the bad guy, not us.  



> iraq causes threats to the u.s. like flies cause garbage.



Anytime a country is an agressor against a country which the United States holds as a friend, it's a threat.  Scenario:  You're walking down the street with your friends, some big bad dude comes up and starts pummeling your tiniest friend, do you just stand back and chill because the big bad dude isn't a threat to you?  Of course not.  You get in there and knock his ass out to save your friend.


----------



## Rusty (Mar 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RCfootball87 *_
> we're not smart, educationally or otherwise.  we're internationaly bullie, essentially the ultimate international terrorists




After that statement, YES I question your patriotisim......


----------



## ALBOB (Mar 17, 2003)

Hmmmm...................Looks like I've made myself a liar.  On Thursday I said I'd be back to re-address this issue, I've changed my mind.  It's painfully obvious that both sides see the world in a much different way and to continue trying to convince others that this war is the right thing to do would be a waste of my time.  At this point I would ask only that once the bombs start falling and people start dying please, if you've ever loved this country, stop the debate.  Whether you agree or disagree doesn't matter at that point, the only thing you'll do by continuing to complain and protest is demoralize the very people you SAY you support, the troops.  I may or may not be one of the troops by the time all is said and done but I do speak from past experience when I say it hurts to think people don't respect the sacrifices you make for their freedom.  I keep hearing the same argument over and over again, "I support our troops but this war is completely wrong.  And don't tell my to keep it to myself, I have a right to protest."  Yes, you have every RIGHT to protest, that's what the troops are protecting, your RIGHTS.  What I never hear about though are your RESPONSIBILITIES.  It's your RESPONSIBILITY to be a good citizen, and that includes supporting the troops by NOT making them feel like their sacrifices are for naught.  Again please, whether you agree with the war or not, once it starts stop the bickering and show your support.  Thanks


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 17, 2003)

Good post, bud-

CNN is on now....interesting watching.


----------



## Stickboy (Mar 17, 2003)

The war, anti-war debate is a double edged sword, IMHO.

If we do nothing and have a terrorist set a nuke off in this country some would be crying "Why didn't the goverment do something to stop it?"

If we try to stop them from doing such things, which will certainly involve incursions and in some cases war, then some start saying "No War".  

You can't have it both ways.


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 17, 2003)

Thought this would be agood place to post this..


Last week, the Shelby County, Alabama Legislative Delegation hosted a "Stand Up for America Rally." More than 1,200 people attended including featured speakers Chief Justice Roy Moore, Adjutant General Mark Bowen and State Auditor Beth Chapman. Attached is a copy of Mrs. Chapman's speech, which resulted in five standing ovations, tremendous applause and an encore. It's a short read and well worth it. I hope you enjoy it as we continue to "Stand up for America!"

"Stand Up for America Rally Speech"  By:  Beth Chapman

I'm here tonight because men and women of the United States military have given their lives for my freedom.  I am not here tonight because Sheryl Crowe, Rosie O???Donnell, Martin Sheen, George Clooney, Jane Fonda or Phil Donahue, sacrificed their lives for me.  

If my memory serves me correctly, it was not movie stars or musicians, but the United States Military who fought on the shores of Iwo Jima, the jungles of Vietnam, and the beaches of Normandy.  

Tonight, I say we should support the President of the United States and the U.S. Military and tell the liberal, tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, hippy, tie-dyed liberals to go make their movies and music and whine somewhere else.  

After all, if they lived in Iraq, they wouldn't be allowed the freedom of speech they're being given here today.  Ironically, they would be put to death at the hands of Sadam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden. 

I want to know how the very people who are against war because of the loss of life, can possibly be the same people who are for abortion? 

They are the same people who are for animal rights but against the rights of the unborn. 

The movie stars say they want to go to Iraq and serve as ???human shields??? for the Iraqis. I say let them buy a one-way ticket and go.  

No one likes war. I hate war!  But the one thing I hate more is the fact that this country has been forced into war???innocent people have lost their lives - - and there but for the grace of God, it could have been my brother, my husband, or even worse my own son. 

On December 7, 1941 , there are no records of movie stars treading the blazing waters of Pearl Harbor.  

On September 11, 2001 ; there are no photos of movie stars standing as ???human shields??? against the debris and falling bodies ascending from the World Trade Center.  There were only policemen and firemen - -underpaid civil servants who gave their all with nothing expected in return.  

When the USS Cole was bombed, there were no movie stars guarding the ship - - where were the human shields then?   

If America's movie stars want to be human shields, let them shield the gang-ridden streets of Los Angeles, or New York City, let them shield the lives of the children of North Birmingham whose mothers lay them down to sleep on the floor each night to shelter them from stray bullets.    

If they want to be human shields, I say let them shield the men and women of honesty and integrity who epitomize courage and embody the spirit of freedom by wearing the proud uniforms of the United States Military.  Those are the people who have earned and deserve shielding! 

Throughout the course of history, this country has remained free, not because of movie stars and liberal activists, but because of brave men and women who hated war too.  However, they lay down their lives so that we all may live in freedom.  After all ??? ???What greater love hath no man, that he lay down his life for his friend,??? or in this case a country.

We should give our military honor and acknowledgment and not let their lives be in vain.  If you want to see true human shields, walk through Arlington Cemetery.  There lie human shields, heroes, and the BRAVE Americans who didn't get on television and talk about being a human shield - they were human shields. 

I thank God tonight for freedom - - those who bought and paid for it with their lives in the past  - - those who will protect it in the present and defend it in the future. 

America has remained silent too long!   God-fearing people have remained silent too long!   

We must lift our voices united in a humble prayer to God for guidance and the strength and courage to sustain us throughout whatever the future may hold.  

After the tragic events of Sept. 11th, my then eleven -year-old son said terrorism is a war against us and them and if you're not one of us, then you're one of them.  

So in closing tonight, let us be of one accord, let us stand proud, and let us be the human shields of prayer, encouragement and support for the President, our troops and their families and our country. 

May God bless America, the land of the free, the home of the brave and the greatest country on the face of this earth!


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 17, 2003)

long, but I thought it was a good article..
http://www.msnbc.com/news/885222.asp?vts=031720030950


----------



## ZECH (Mar 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RCfootball87 *_
> you would know, since you live inside my head. what hell kind of statement is that? just cause im 15 doens't mean i dont know more about politics and world affairs than 90% of americans.


Yes it does......you're a child................now go play with your army men!!


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Yes it does......you're a child................now go play with your army men!!



This type of thing is unnecessary and uncalled for, from both sides.  You prove no point other than an ineptitude at debating your position and rebuting the opposition.  It bugs me a great deal when a person does not respond with something to shoot down the other sides position, but responds with something to shoot down the other side.   It serves no purpose.

I'm sure my words are lost here, though.


----------



## Rusty (Mar 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pianomahnn *_
> This type of thing is unnecessary and uncalled for, from both sides.  You prove no point other than an ineptitude at debating your position and rebuting the opposition.  It bugs me a great deal when a person does not respond with something to shoot down the other sides position, but responds with something to shoot down the other side.   It serves no purpose.
> 
> I'm sure my words are lost here, though.



Pianomahnn, 
     I'm not speaking for DG, but I'm sure he is just as frustrated as I am with all the left thinking people here.  You know as well as I do their argument has no merit.  I personally applaud the fact that you can keep your wits about you and always reply with something insightfull.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 17, 2003)

In my mind I set this utopian world of debate.  A world where people debate facts with facts, not opinions and name calling.

Sometimes I just get angry at it all.  And yes, I have commited name calling, but only when called names first (I think   ) .

Feh, it doesn't matter, really.

And you are correct, the arguments tend to have no merit, mainly because the arguments are based on speculation and opinion, not fact and truth.  It's why I ask for proof.  Show me why I should believe your position and not the one I currently hold.  Don't say "You're wrong!  And dumb!  And just a non-free thinking fool!"  That has no way of proving a point.

he he he. . .king of the hill is on tv.


----------



## crunch (Mar 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by ALBOB *_
> Again please, whether you agree with the war or not, once it starts stop the bickering and show your support.  Thanks



For the record:

1. If the US goes to war:

I will support the troops.
I will respect that they are fighting for my freedoms.
I will respect the risks they take for my sake.
I hope the war is quick and uneventful.
I hope they do not have to pay for this mess with their lives.
I will welcome them home with open arms.


2. That said:

I lean to the right. I am not a tree hugger. I do not think this or any other war is 'wrong'. Conflict in one form or another is and will always be neccessary. Absolute right and wrong is for comic books and does not apply to the real world. I think the war is a mistake, or at best an extremely risky endevour, for econimc, social and political reasons. I hope I'm completely wrong in my OPINION (because not a single one of us knows the complete facts, not even George W) and everything is peachy keen by next year.

And Albob I never ever mix 1 and 2 up so I'd like people to stop the 'I-disagree' to 'you-think-our-soildiers-are-doing-something-bad' leap. It's a desparate oversimplification of an extremely complex and important political issue. They are just doing their duty. THEY HAVE ASOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS DEBATE.


----------



## ZECH (Mar 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by IPMC *_
> Pianomahnn,
> I'm not speaking for DG, but I'm sure he is just as frustrated as I am with all the left thinking people here.  You know as well as I do their argument has no merit.  I personally applaud the fact that you can keep your wits about you and always reply with something insightfull.


Yep,  I'm finished arguing. This guy evidently has no idea wtf he is talking about. How can he at 15?? The only opinions you have at that age are the one's your told! I do commend him on trying though. He's just on the wrong side. His parents or teachers are rubbing off. PM, I can talk till I'm blue in the face and debate till doomsday, but it will not change anyone's opinion. In time and not very long, they will see we were right!!! I have very strong beliefs PM and it pisses me off that people can be so nieve!


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Yep,  I'm finished arguing. This guy evidently has no idea wtf he is talking about. How can he at 15?? The only opinions you have at that age are the one's your told! I do commend him on trying though. He's just on the wrong side. His parents or teachers are rubbing off. PM, I can talk till I'm blue in the face and debate till doomsday, but it will not change anyone's opinion. In time and not very long, they will see we were right!!! I have very strong beliefs PM and it pisses me off that people can be so nieve!



i was gonna say my goodbyes too but im pissed now beacuse of this statement. first off, i got to a conservative private school where every foolish teacher is pro war. along with my mother who is also pro war. my father is anti war. i hear both sides of every argument and i decide for myself. whether you did or not at the age of fifteen is your buisness but what right do you having never met me to tell me that im just regurtating propaganda spewed at me by my supposedly all knowing authority figures? im one of the only people in my class that is anti war, so this has nothing to do with friends, im obviously being influenced by no one, and your statement is total bullshit, considering you dont know the facts. and for the record im an extreme right wing, extremely pro-gun, anti abortion, anti- homosexuality individual. go put a flag on your truck, drink a beer, and put on a few more pounds watching the NCAA tournament, but dont you dare tell me what i know about politics and where i get my opinions from, cause thats downright communist.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Yes it does......you're a child................now go play with your army men!!



no it doesn't, your a jackass, go play with your dick.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 17, 2003)

alright, bush is pretty much saying he's gonna start this thing.  i'm leaving this debate. thanks to pianomah, ipmc, burner, albob, stickboy, yanack, mma, the berg master, dg806, and everyone else who participated in this debate. im leaving now,and whatever happens i support our troops. hope your half ass excuse for a government doesn't get you killed . nice debating guys, no hard feelings to anyone


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RCfootball87 *_
> i was gonna say my goodbyes too but im pissed now beacuse of this statement. first off, i got to a conservative private school where every foolish teacher is pro war. along with my mother who is also pro war. my father is anti war. i hear both sides of every argument and i decide for myself. whether you did or not at the age of fifteen is your buisness but what right do you having never met me to tell me that im just regurtating propaganda spewed at me by my supposedly all knowing authority figures? im one of the only people in my class that is anti war, so this has nothing to do with friends, im obviously being influenced by no one, and your statement is total bullshit, considering you dont know the facts. and for the record im an extreme right wing, extremely pro-gun, anti abortion, anti- homosexuality individual. go put a flag on your truck, drink a beer, and put on a few more pounds watching the NCAA tournament, but dont you dare tell me what i know about politics and where i get my opinions from, cause thats downright communist.



1) No one is "pro" war.  Those who you consider "pro-war" are most likely pro-action, a stance the a number of nations which are members of the UN have neglected to take.

2) You have not discussed anything which I have asked of you.  You have not presented facts to support your cause.  And in the above quoted post, you claim you're being influenced by no one.  Why then, are your "reasons" the same ones being plastered across the world by the numerous anti-war activists?  Why then are non of your reasons original ones?

Please, as the only person here who hasn't called you names or insulted you, hold an open discussion with me.  If you're sound in your position and the facts supporting it, you should have no problem brining those to light, and perhaps show others why you're right and they're wrong.

I suggest you take me up on this offer and show all the naysayers you're not just some uneducated teen.  Show them you actually know what you're speaking of.  Even if you were to fail miserably in your positional defense, it will show you're capable of debate in a manner which consists not of name calling and petty attacks, but of factual, educated, and rational conversation.


----------



## ZECH (Mar 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pianomahnn *_
> 1) No one is "pro" war.  Those who you consider "pro-war" are most likely pro-action, a stance the a number of nations which are members of the UN have neglected to take.
> 
> 2) You have not discussed anything which I have asked of you.  You have not presented facts to support your cause.  And in the above quoted post, you claim you're being influenced by no one.  Why then, are your "reasons" the same ones being plastered across the world by the numerous anti-war activists?  Why then are non of your reasons original ones?
> ...


Now you see why I'm so frustrated?? I think I proved my points on my comments, even though I may have went too far with them.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pianomahnn *_
> 1) No one is "pro" war.  Those who you consider "pro-war" are most likely pro-action, a stance the a number of nations which are members of the UN have neglected to take.
> 
> 2) You have not discussed anything which I have asked of you.  You have not presented facts to support your cause.  And in the above quoted post, you claim you're being influenced by no one.  Why then, are your "reasons" the same ones being plastered across the world by the numerous anti-war activists?  Why then are non of your reasons original ones?
> ...



sure i'll do it, but how do you make like 4 separate quotes in one post? it makes it difficult for me to reply to your posts cause i can only sue block quotes.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 18, 2003)

[.quote]
yada yada yada
[./quote]

YOUr StufF h3r3

[.quote]
my ninja goodness!!!
[./quote]

Remove the . in those vb code tags.


----------



## david (Mar 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RCfootball87 *_
> yes, you are ebing prejudice refering to a WIDE group of people as "they".  and, doesn't that sound a lot like what the pilgrims of this country did to the indians? then a efw years later we slaughtered thme and took their land. i will shoot down every point you make about history, so i suggest you stop.




How about forget history and think about today and tomorrow?


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 18, 2003)

well, I caught Bush's speech last night on my way out of work. I was impressed with what he had to say.
I think it was logical and to the point. I am glad that he also addressed the Iraqi people, telling then that we, (The US and coalition forces actually jumping on board) will be going for soddam and sons, not anyone else. Please refrain from fighting and you will not be harmed.

I know that that will not happen in large numbers, but it would be nice...


----------



## Rusty (Mar 18, 2003)

Something wicked this way comes............


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 18, 2003)

hey....you're quoting...my quote...

What's up, IPMC?
Got a nice little blizzard bewing up outside...almost slid my car into a curb turning into the side street where I work...the good news: Didn't spill a drop of coffee!


----------



## Tboy (Mar 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Burner02 *_
> well, I caught Bush's speech last night on my way out of work. I was impressed with what he had to say.
> I think it was logical and to the point. I am glad that he also addressed the Iraqi people, telling then that we, (The US and coalition forces actually jumping on board) will be going for soddam and sons, not anyone else. Please refrain from fighting and you will not be harmed.
> 
> I know that that will not happen in large numbers, but it would be nice...



I like the fact that he noted that the UN was Useless.


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 18, 2003)

yeah, that we gave them all opportunities to step up to the plate and do their responsibility, yet  did not.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by david *_
> How about forget history and think about today and tomorrow?



That's a horrible idea.

Forgetting history is #1 on a list of bad things to do.


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 18, 2003)

I may be wrong....(like that's ever happened beofre..)
but I think dave was talking about this thread's history? Not history in general.
What's that saying:
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it?

or something like that?


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 18, 2003)

"Saboteur" and "traitor" are French words. Go figure.


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 18, 2003)

Et Douche?


----------



## Rusty (Mar 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> Et Douche?



Eat Douche......Befor or after it's been used?


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 18, 2003)

..and I'll have your back, bro!

If someone EVER spat on me if I were returning from duty...that would be the last time they did that fully intact...

How's your brother?


----------



## Rusty (Mar 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by tidalwaverus *_
> This is so personal ,
> 
> my bro manaual went to nam at 18 right after HS (RC) just a kid but a man fighting for OUR freedom 4 mos in jungle he was captrured he was M.I.A. for 3yrs then was release after being a POW for 3 and 1/2 years he lived in a box 4'x4'x1' feed like a dog!
> ...



How is your buddy today?  Have you kept in touch with him?  I hope he is doing well.......


----------



## ALBOB (Mar 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by crunch *_
> For the record:
> 
> 1. If the US goes to war:
> ...



If I ever make it to Toronto the very first thing I'm gonna do is look you up and buy you a beer.


----------



## david (Mar 18, 2003)

Me too!  Good one, Crunch!


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 18, 2003)

we're all headed to cannokland for beers! 
crunch is gonna have a doozie of a hangover..


----------



## david (Mar 18, 2003)

Uh, it's too cold still!  Later on that one!


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 18, 2003)

well...we are also going to B& Fade's new house for a house warming party...have a cold one (or several) with crunch, then road trip to Texas and thaw out in the hot tub....


----------



## ALBOB (Mar 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Burner02 *_
> well...we are also going to B& Fade's new house for a house warming party



Damn, you didn't tell me Fade was gonna be there.


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 18, 2003)

someone's gotta cook...


----------



## Rusty (Mar 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Burner02 *_
> someone's gotta cook...


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 18, 2003)

I would offer...but is'nt it true about all texan men that they come poppin out of the womb with a stetson, cowboy boots on, a beer in one hand and a bbq tongs in the other???
YOu know how I hate to stereotype...


----------



## naturaltan (Mar 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by crunch *_
> For the record:
> 
> 1. If the US goes to war:
> ...



Extremely well thought out and phrased!


----------



## ZECH (Mar 18, 2003)

I say we all meet at Rusty's house in the next couple months and go down to Fade and BF for some cold beer!


----------



## RCfootball87 (Mar 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by tidalwaverus *_
> This is so personal ,
> 
> my bro manaual went to nam at 18 right after HS (RC) just a kid but a man fighting for OUR freedom 4 mos in jungle he was captrured he was M.I.A. for 3yrs then was release after being a POW for 3 and 1/2 years he lived in a box 4'x4'x1' feed like a dog!
> ...



if i saw someone spit on your brother id kick the shit out of him too. listen, i support the soldier in what they do, especially drafted soldiers, they hadve no choice and our just defending their country. i jsut dont supoprt the government officials. they're fools for starting this war. whether or not the war in vietnam was right or wrong i respect the sacrifices the troops made for us. and for someone who is pro abortion to call somoene a baby killer is straight up ridiculous, damn hippies.


----------



## Sebi (Mar 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by butterfly *_
> enough said...



There are two sides of a coin you know.


----------



## Sebi (Mar 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> I ain't eating french fries, french toast, french this or french that!
> Fuck em!



Your words describe you well enough.


----------



## Sebi (Mar 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by IPMC *_
> God is on the side of RIGHT, not wrong.  And I have and will prove you wrong again and again.  Go play with your little blow up doll.
> 
> Excuse me while I finish my conversation with GOD...........



At any rate you don't go as far as to say you are God. That's something...


----------



## Sebi (Mar 18, 2003)

Disappointed. Looking through this thread I realize, that this board is not moderated. Such a pity.


----------



## Jodi (Mar 18, 2003)

Its moderated but its like the good USA we are free to speak our opinions here!


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Its moderated but its like the good USA we are free to speak our opinions here!


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 19, 2003)

Welcome Sebi! Nice to meet you too!


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Sebi *_
> Disappointed. Looking through this thread I realize, that this board is not moderated. Such a pity.



Hmmmm. . .

What's a pity is that for some reason you want to limit people's opinions on things.

DICTATOR4LYFE!!!!!!


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 19, 2003)

I guess the only way to please you silly Americans is to totally agree with you. 
Good luck in the future USA... the world is starting to get really pissed.


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 19, 2003)

You are absolutely right. Good luck to you too, sir.


----------



## Jodi (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> I guess the only way to please you silly Americans is to totally agree with you.
> Good luck in the future USA... the world is starting to get really pissed.



Is that why we have 48 countries ready to stand by us tonight?  

I don't want to get into this so I'm only saying this one thing.  Take care and God Bless America!


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 19, 2003)

Jodi: You might have quite a few countries behind you, because their governments have reasons of their own. Did you however know that the majority of citizens that live in most of those same countries are against a war. E.g. England, Denmark and so on. 
Don't get it confused. The rest of the world don't share your view on things...


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> I guess the only way to please you silly Americans is to totally agree with you.
> Good luck in the future USA... the world is starting to get really pissed.




That's funny. It seems nearly 50% of the world is on our side.


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Jodi: You might have quite a few countries behind you because their governments have reasons of their own. Did you however know that the citizens that live in most of those same countries are against a war. E.g. England, Denmark and so on.



71% of this country's population is in favor of this war. I'll be willing to bet big money that the numbers increase once it starts. 

The anti war crowd is outnumbered all over the world.


----------



## kuso (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Rob_NC *_
> 
> 
> The anti war crowd is outnumbered all over the world.



Thats actually not true, but really whats it matter, we are going ahead one way or another anyway so WTF keep arguing about it?????????


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> Thats actually not true, but really whats it matter, we are going ahead one way or another anyway so WTF keep arguing about it?????????




EXACTLY!!


----------



## Rusty (Mar 19, 2003)

Now here this........All you Nay sayers, keep your shorts on and watch........The truth will be revieled shortly.............


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 19, 2003)

Then you can drop your shorts, grab your ankles, and take it like a man!


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 19, 2003)

Rob_NC: Yeah, guess I shouldn't drop the soap around people like you huh? Homo


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 19, 2003)

Again, you've made an excellent point, Berg. Well phrased! 
Bye Bye, now.


----------



## Rusty (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Rob_NC: Yeah, guess I shouldn't drop the soap around people like you huh? Homo



No who has resorted to name calling?  I guess it hurts when you have been proven wrong time and time again.


----------



## kuso (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by IPMC *_
> No who has resorted to name calling?  I guess it hurts when you have been proven wrong time and time again.



You know which side I`m coming from, but if someone told me to "drop your shorts, grab your ankles, and take it like a man!" ( and in the context its in its obvious berg will take it personally ) I`d call him a lot more than a fucking homo.


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 19, 2003)




----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 19, 2003)

Call me what you will. I'm above the level of name calling and I won't let it bother me.  It's sad people have to resort to cheap shots.


----------



## kuso (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Rob_NC *_
> Call me what you will. I'm above the level of name calling and I won't let it bother me.  It's sad people have to resort to cheap shots.



You see no difference in what you said and his reply?

Tell me, how would expect ANYONE to reply to you telling them to prepare to take it up the ass?


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 19, 2003)

I interpreted the comment as a generalized statement, almost a follow-up to the previous statement....i.e.,not directed towards anyone.


----------



## kuso (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> I interpreted the comment as a generalized statement, almost a follow-up to the previous statement....i.e.,not directed towards anyone.




I disagree 

And in any sence, the "I'm above the level of name calling" shit is beyond a joke as it has been going on in every fucking thread.

IMHO,  calling someone a name or deliberatley enticing them to call you one with vailed insults is no different at all.

If you want to debate the topic ( which again is what I keep reading ) it doesn`t matter what you think of the other person, or their position, you are supposed at least show respect towards them. I`ve seen very little of that in any of the threads FROM EITHER SIDES!!! With a few exceptions.


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 19, 2003)

As usual Kuso, you are right, I am wrong. Although what DaMayor said is what was meant.


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 19, 2003)

Kuso, you are not the perfect human either. Let's not pretend to be.


----------



## kuso (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Rob_NC *_
> As usual Kuso, you are right, I am wrong.



Trying to get me to bite too eh?



> _*Originally posted by Rob_NC *_
> Kuso, you are not the perfect human either. Let's not pretend to be.



I don`t think I have even inferred that I am....as most of the regulars here would know, I`m far from it!


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> I don`t think I have even inferred that I am....as most of the regulars here would know, I`m far from it!



That's right! You tell him, Kuso!...Ya bloody cantankerous Aussie bastard!


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> Trying to get me to bite too eh?



Nope, just admitting the obvious.


----------



## kuso (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> That's right! You tell him, Kuso!...Ya bloody cantankerous Aussie bastard!




 I haven`t had a drink in too fucking long....getting a little cranky I guess


----------



## kuso (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Rob_NC *_
> Nope, just admitting the obvious.



Glad we agree then.


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 19, 2003)

Ok


----------



## kuso (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> OMFG, Kuso wooped your ass there!... LOL!



Dude, don`t you fucking start!!!


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 19, 2003)

Hey, it takes a bigger man to admit when he's wrong.


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 19, 2003)

Rob_NC: Yeah... good job


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> I haven`t had a drink in too fucking long....getting a little cranky I guess



I think everybody is a bit edgy these days.....War tends to do that to people.


----------



## kuso (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> I think everybody is a bit edgy these days.....War tends to do that to people.



Too true man, which why I`d like to at least see things around here being cool


----------



## Sebi (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Its moderated but its like the good USA we are free to speak our opinions here!


Hi Jodi,

My point was that one should set a standard imo, and not limit their arguments to undesireable comments which neither nice nor constructiv. Like "fuckem all"

Freedom is great as long as it doesn't limit others'. btw I doubt that you have real freedom in the U.S. looking at the obvious war propaganda in the media.

And one more point with this "God bless America" thing: wouldn't it be nicer to say "God bless the world"? Only because you know it wouldn't look as selfish.


----------



## naturaltan (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> Too true man, which why I`d like to at least see things around here being cool



Don't think that will happen with this topic.    There is no debate here - just two sides who have very different views and it won't change.  Just one of those topics that can't be discussed as it is very personal.


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Sebi *_
> Hi Jodi,
> 
> 
> ...




Just curious, where are you from? 

I'll admit that some of what is said by the media can be taken as propoganda, that's why I watch Foxnews and not CNN.

Your last statement makes perfect sense.


----------



## naturaltan (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Rob_NC *_
> ... Your last statement makes some sense.



That I have to agree with.


----------



## Tboy (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Sebi *_
> And one more point with this "God bless America" thing: wouldn't it be nicer to say "God bless the world"? Only because you know it wouldn't look as selfish.



You bless yours and we'll bless ours.  Thank you very much.

God bless America!

...and whoever else agrees with us.


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 19, 2003)

It also sometimes sound like the general perseption in USA is that they are the only "free" country in the world. I might be wrong though...


----------



## kuso (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Tboy *_
> 
> 
> God bless America!
> ...



That is just fucking stupid man....here you are fighting in 20 thread how this country and that country wont back you guys, and now you are shitting on not only those, but the ones that are your allies too?


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 19, 2003)

I do love the perspective Kuso brings


----------



## Sebi (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Tboy *_
> You bless yours and we'll bless ours.  Thank you very much.
> 
> God bless America!
> ...



I can't bless anyone, because I'm not God.

It seems you are.


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 19, 2003)

Okay, let's evaluate. Sebi, the Moderator chided the person who made the negative comment. Hence, you could have foregone the sarcasm. 
If you're going to take the high road....take the high road.


----------



## Rusty (Mar 19, 2003)

Sebi, berg, RCfootball.............and others

Please read this..... http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16189


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 19, 2003)

bump


----------



## Tboy (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> That is just fucking stupid man



Its a joke dude,  Take a deep breath and count to 100000000.

Geesh...   



> _*Originally posted by kuso *_....here you are fighting in 20 thread how this country and that country wont back you guys, and now you are shitting on not only those, but the ones that are your allies too?



I'm not fighting in 20 other threads.  I am simply expressing my thoughts and opinions.  

Step back and think about it.  Nothing I, or you, say here is going to amount to a hill of beans at the end of the day.  It's not going to change the world.  

So I ticked off a goober or two...  so what?  We'll all go to bed tonight and forget about it and wake up in the morning and be back at it again.

Don't take anything I say personal.  It won't change your world anyway.


----------



## Tboy (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Sebi *_
> I can't bless anyone, because I'm not God.
> 
> It seems you are.




  I have re-read my post again, and nowhere in it did I claim to be God.  

I said God bless America.  This means that I ( a mortal being) am asking God (an imortal intity) to bless America.

Make sense?  It does to me.

I also ask him to bless whatever place you are from.


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 19, 2003)

tidalwaverus: First of all.... that was so long ago. Secondly, you are a country made up of people mainly from Europe so stfu.


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 19, 2003)

> I also ask him to bless whatever place you are from.



What if he is from Iraq, Tboy? Would you bless the place he was from then? Why is it btw that you always think that god is on your side... that is so arrogant. It's like you abuse god for your own good. Sick


----------



## Tboy (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> What if he is from Iraq, dude?




God is not prejudice.


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 19, 2003)

Tboy: As far as I recall you were the one throwing around blessings...


----------



## Tboy (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Tboy: No, but you certainly are. And as far as I recall you were the one throwing around blessings...



Here in the US blessings are a GOOD thing.


----------



## Sebi (Mar 19, 2003)

Hi Tboy,

The sentence I was referring to was the following:

_You bless yours and we'll bless ours._ 

I suppose my English is wrong, but I don't belive I can bless my country the way God can bless it. Again, it might be my bad English.


----------



## dino (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Sebi *_
> And one more point with this "God bless America" thing: wouldn't it be nicer to say "God bless the world"? Only because you know it wouldn't look as selfish.



I would have to agree with this statement above.........
"God Bless the WORLD"~


----------



## Tboy (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Sebi *_
> but I don't belive I can bless my country the way God can bless it.



You are absolutely right, there.

Go back and read my post to Kuso and to you.  If you didnt understand... I mean't for God to do the blessing and you to do the asking.



But anyways,   Enough of this quibiling.  At the request of IPMC, I quit.

This thread was fun and factfilled now its dead.


----------



## Jodi (Mar 19, 2003)

> And one more point with this "God bless America" thing: wouldn't it be nicer to say "God bless the world"? Only because you know it wouldn't look as selfish.



Its the title of a very Patriotic song here in America and a very common saying they we have children have always heard and known.  

Also Ever since 9/11 it is more commonly said in casual conversation regarding our nation.

Please understand that I am very patriotic and I feel that we as a Nation is making the stand here against World Terrorism....Hence I will continue to say God Bless America!

But I do apologize because It would be better to say at this time God bless the World!!


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 19, 2003)

Where the hell is RCfootball87?

He was supposed to debate me in here.

I'm getting lonely.


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 19, 2003)

Tidalwaverus: I'm couldn't come up with the exact numbers. I'm sure we borrowed some, but what makes you think that we didn't pay you back. Denmark is a pretty wealthy country you know? E.g. we have free health care, schools (highschools and colleges etc.), dental care and so on... because of our high taxes.


----------



## tidalwaverus (Mar 19, 2003)

Just round it off and add 10 %


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 19, 2003)

Tidalwaverus: Do you have any source confirmation on this ?


----------



## ZECH (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Sebi *_
> 
> And one more point with this "God bless America" thing: wouldn't it be nicer to say "God bless the world"? Only because you know it wouldn't look as selfish.


Well if all the world was helping us it would be. I don't see too many lifting a finger to help us. But for the ones that are, They are like family! But let them get in trouble and the first thing they will do is call the good ol USA to come bail them out..............


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 19, 2003)

Yep. We're the big bully until someone needs a loan.


----------



## david (Mar 19, 2003)

that's the TRUTH!!!


----------



## Crono1000 (Mar 19, 2003)

USA ROX!


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 19, 2003)

Ignorance is bless


----------



## Crono1000 (Mar 19, 2003)

i feel like that was an insult at my expense...

but I'll take it as a general statement so I'm less offended


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 19, 2003)

No offence Crono1000


----------



## Sebi (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Well if all the world was helping us it would be. I don't see too many lifting a finger to help us. But for the ones that are, They are like family! But let them get in trouble and the first thing they will do is call the good ol USA to come bail them out..............



So you reserve the blessing of God only to those who are supporting your ideas whatever they are? Are you so sure, every action of the U.S. is justified? Frankly, do you belive in God? If you do, you must know, that no one on Earth is without sins or mistakes. You have and I have. So let's get over with narrow-minded statements.

Jodi: Thanks, and no need to apologize. I got your point of view to some extent. I think though, that this upcoming war has not much to do with preventing terrorism.


----------



## Crono1000 (Mar 19, 2003)

japanese...

... _GIRLS!_  got any hot friends


----------



## Sebi (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Crono1000 *_
> japanese...
> 
> ... _GIRLS!_  got any hot friends




Japanese? What? Who?


----------



## Crono1000 (Mar 19, 2003)

nevermind 



> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> No offence Crono1000


for the record I would like everyone else to notice Berg Master... notice how he spelled my name _correctly_?????


----------



## kuso (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Tboy *_
> Its a joke dude,  Take a deep breath and count to 100000000.
> 
> Geesh...



FUCK THAT! I`ve taken more deep breaths than I care for reading these threads over the last few weeks, getting back handed insults in every fucking one, and then some insults the US and you jump all fucking over them!!! We are one of your allies ( our how bout, the US is one of OUR allies  ) yet people keep bashing all.



> _*Originally posted by Tboy *_
> Its a joke dude,  Take a deep breath and count to 100000000.
> 
> Geesh...
> ...



You do more that "tick off a goober or two" your comment pisses every member here that is non US. Did YOU read IPMC`s thread?? I think what he was trying to say was choose your ( meaning everyone`s ) worlds a little more carefully so as NOT to piss of someone ( supposedly friends from this site ) with opposing thoughts, and not to make yourself look like an ass...............with the tension in the thread as it is, maybe you need to ask if a "joke" like that is appropriate.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 19, 2003)

I like Canada.


----------



## david (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Ignorance is bless




This is fine but the was is on and we'll see the end result of all of  this!


----------



## Crono1000 (Mar 19, 2003)

word


----------



## Tboy (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> I`ve taken more deep breaths than I care for reading these threads over the last few weeks, getting back handed insults in every fucking one, and then some insults the US and you jump all fucking over them!!!



   
In my last post I said I was through here.  I am going to do another one to clear a couple of things up.

As I understand it, You are from Australia living in Japan right?  If that is true, no comment that I have read or written has been directed at you.  So the comment _getting back handed insults in every post_ is simply not true.



> We are one of your allies



And I/we thank you/y'all for that.




> You do more that "tick off a goober or two" your comment pisses every member here that is non US.



Please elaborate.  If you are talking about the 





> God bless America and who ever else agrees with us


?  If so that would not pertain to you or almost any other on this board. It even would not pertain to Sebi,  So your point is mute.




> Did YOU read IPMC`s thread??


  I did.  Did you read mine?



> I think what he was trying to say was choose your ( meaning everyone's ) worlds a little more carefully so as NOT to piss of someone


I will not hold my tongue when it comes to defending or talking about my country.  If it pisses you off for me to say God Bless America  (and her allies) so be it.  If you take offence of American pride,  That's your choice.




> and not to make yourself look like an ass...............


  back at ya.

In closing:

I have learned in life, that if you run around with a chip on your shoulder someone will knock it off.  If you have a problem with me, personally, put me on your "ignore" list and I'll go away. 

My intention on this board is not to run around offending people. I try to stay within the boundaries of being funny, witty and well informed.  

If, after saying all this, you still believe I have offended you.  I apologize for offending you.  I do not apologize for saying God bless America.


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Tboy *_
> I try to stay within the boundaries of being funny, witty and well informed.



Failed


----------



## Rusty (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Failed




Kuso-------No disrespect intended.

as long as your jumping on the band wagon of people inticing others, please jump on all of them..........


----------



## Tboy (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Failed




  

At least I have goals.


----------



## kuso (Mar 20, 2003)

Before I start....and YOU means as a general comment towards posts I`ve read, and not YOU as in Tboy



> _*Originally posted by Tboy *_
> As I understand it, You are from Australia living in Japan right?  If that is true, no comment that I have read or written has been directed at you.  So the comment _getting back handed insults in every post_ is simply not true.



It simply is true, though read through your eyes I`m not surprised you don`t see it.



> _*Originally posted by Tboy *_
> And I/we thank you/y'all for that.



There is no need.....the way I see it is its a threat to the world hense we are there to protect OUR future just as much as to back anyone.



> _*Originally posted by Tboy *_
> Please elaborate.  If you are talking about the



Every time you make this out to be US vs everyone else you exlcude those others that have troops there fighting, and that have been fighting in the area since 9/11. And there are coutless posts where that has been the ongoing theme.



> _*Originally posted by Tboy *_
> ?  If so that would not pertain to you or almost any other on this board. It even would not pertain to Sebi,  So your point is mute.



Mute or not...it is extremely arrogant to expect GOD to bless only those that "agree" with US



> _*Originally posted by Tboy *_
> I did.  Did you read mine?



I didn`t realise you`d even made a thread.



> _*Originally posted by Tboy *_
> I will not hold my tongue when it comes to defending or talking about my country.  If it pisses you off for me to say God Bless America  (and her allies) so be it.  If you take offence of American pride,  That's your choice.



I`m not expecting you to hold your tounge, and would never say that to anyone....defend your country as you please, BUT you do not have to deliberately offend other countries while doing so, which is what I`ve meant, if not said.



> _*Originally posted by Tboy *_
> I have learned in life, that if you run around with a chip on your shoulder someone will knock it off.




I`ve learnt and believe the same thing!





> _*Originally posted by Tboy *_
> If you have a problem with me, personally, put me on your "ignore" list and I'll go away.



I have no problem with you whatsoever, never have. Your post I did have a problem with which is why we are talking about it now....that doesn`t warrent putting on the ignore list, nor this carring over into other threads IMO 




> _*Originally posted by Tboy *_
> My intention on this board is not to run around offending people. I try to stay within the boundaries of being funny, witty and well informed.



As is mine.



> _*Originally posted by Tboy *_
> If, after saying all this, you still believe I have offended you.  I apologize for offending you.  I do not apologize for saying God bless America.



The appearance ( to me at least ) of double standards it what has pissed me off, not any one post, but a collection of them.

I have quite a lot more I`d like to say on the issue, but I`d rather not spend the next few days going back and forth bikkering about it so will leave it here.

If there is anything you`d like to say in reply, fell free to post it, but any further replies from me will be via pm as I`ve had it with this thread.


----------



## kuso (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by IPMC *_
> Kuso-------No disrespect intended.
> 
> as long as your jumping on the band wagon of people inticing others, please jump on all of them..........





> *quote:
> Originally posted by The Berg Master
> OMFG, Kuso wooped your ass there!... LOL!  *
> 
> ...




I think you`ll see I have been...I was responding to Tboy`s first.


----------



## Sebi (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by tidalwaverus *_
> Yes $50,000,000,000,000.00 look it up



"Please make check payable"


----------



## Rusty (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> I think you`ll see I have been...I was responding to Tboy`s first.



Sorry, I missed that one.  I quit reading every single post some time ago.  I'm with the masses, I'm done with this thread.


----------



## kuso (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by IPMC *_
> Sorry, I missed that one.  I quit reading every single post some time ago.  I'm with the masses, I'm done with this thread.



No probs man 

Think I may go unsubscrib from here now.


----------



## naturaltan (Mar 20, 2003)

this is IM's version of Wrestlemania!


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by tidalwaverus *_
> Give me liberity or give me death! since you know our histroy so well  who said it?
> 
> P.S. IT has been shorten over the years
> ...




First of all... I never claimed to know history well. I don't know where you got that from. Must be confusing me with someone else.

Secondly...you say 50 billion... that's the total ammount of money you loaned countries after WWII obviously. I come from DENMARK! Again I ask of you to find out what DENMARK borrowed. NOT the world !


----------



## tidalwaverus (Mar 20, 2003)

Do your own homework


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 20, 2003)

No... you are the one throwing around alligations!


----------



## ZECH (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Sebi *_
> So you reserve the blessing of God only to those who are supporting your ideas whatever they are? Are you so sure, every action of the U.S. is justified? Frankly, do you belive in God? If you do, you must know, that no one on Earth is without sins or mistakes. You have and I have. So let's get over with narrow-minded statements.
> 
> Jodi: Thanks, and no need to apologize. I got your point of view to some extent. I think though, that this upcoming war has not much to do with preventing terrorism.


A large majority of people outside the USA are not christian......And I do beilieve in God and very conservative. We have gotten into religious debates before here and it is not the time to do it again. I do believe God is on our side. And yes I sin everyday! Get to know me before you pass judgement..............


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 20, 2003)

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/  <--- Take a look... ok?


----------



## Rob_NC (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/  <--- Take a look... ok?




Soooo,,,, what's your point?


----------



## ALBOB (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/  <--- Take a look... ok?



I'm not going to piggyback on anyone else's post about Europe "oweing" the U.S. money for rebuilding after WWII.  That's their battle and I won't go there.  I do need to ask though, what connection you see between that debt and our own INTERNAL national debt.  The U.S. National Debt, which your clock portrays, is a debt we owe OURSELVES.  It has nothing to do with what we owe to other countires or what other countries owe us.  So, where's the connection?


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 20, 2003)

I'm out for good. Peace!

Huge demonstrations against the war ALL over the world today! Go figure...


----------



## ZECH (Mar 20, 2003)

Yeah and more countries are on our side today too...now over 40


----------



## ALBOB (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_Huge demonstrations against the war ALL over the world today!



Yep, most of them are in Iraq.


----------



## Rusty (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by ALBOB *_
> Yep, most of them are in Iraq.


----------



## Sebi (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> A large majority of people outside the USA are not christian......


So what?


> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> And I do beilieve in God and very conservative. We have gotten into religious debates before here and it is not the time to do it again.


Well, it wasn't me, who started...


> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> I do believe God is on our side.


Are you sober? If you believe in God (as you pretend) and have the brains to understand what's being said, you should know that God is supporting avery single creature in this world. He is not on anybody's side. Your ignorance tells a lot. 


> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> And yes I sin everyday! Get to know me before you pass judgement..............


I can't remember I ever made a judgenent.


----------



## Sebi (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by ALBOB *_
> Yep, most of them are in Iraq.


Your "free" country doesn't seem to inform its citizens correctly. There are demontstrations everey single day. Just to name a few contries:

Italy
Germany
Japan
China
Russia
U.S.
France
U.K.
Spain


----------



## ZECH (Mar 20, 2003)

You are the one making idiotic staements. God does not support anyone who does not velieve in him.............And you were the one who started it. I just responed to your your post. If you can't stand the heat, take a trip to Iraq!


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 20, 2003)

A few million people protesting.

A few billion who aren't.

heh


----------



## Sebi (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> You are the one making idiotic staements. God does not support anyone who does not velieve in him.............


He does. Read the Bible. btw do you go to church?


> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> And you were the one who started it. I just responed to your your post. If you can't stand the heat, take a trip to Iraq!


Your wish I suppose is a thoughtful one.


----------



## Sebi (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pianomahnn *_
> A few million people protesting.
> 
> A few billion who aren't.
> ...


More people are demonstrating against the war than ever in history. Get correct information first.


----------



## Crono1000 (Mar 20, 2003)

they should know all they have to do is send me in with a knife and some string... I'd end this war for 'em


----------



## david (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Sebi *_
> More people are demonstrating against the war than ever in history. Get correct information first.



But who cares about that and the demonstrators... there is always conflict whatever the topic may be... still, who fucking cares!  The point is that United States (and those who have joined in with us) is at war and we're taking care of what needs to be done. 

As for the increasing number of those who are anti-war... that was expected.


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by david *_
> But who cares about that and the demonstrators... there is always conflict whatever the topic may be... still, who fucking cares!  The point is that United States (and those who have joined in with us) is at war and we're taking care of what needs to be done.



Yes USA is indeed a very violent country! And you guys seem to be proud of it. Bottom line: Iraq as a country never posed a threat to you! So stfu and stop trying to justify everything with your arrogance towards the world. Your media has manipulated you into thinking the government does this for the sake of "freedom", when in reality it's more likely that oil is the real motive. Furthermore Bush hates Saddam from back when he tried to assasinate Bush Senior. The list goes on but doesn't seem to include sparing the lives of many innocent Iraqi civilians. 

Once again = The world is against this war but you obviously couldn't care less... that leaves me thinking that your true values are not freedom, but rather ignorance and arrogance!

P.S. your "relationship" with God is just sick and totally misunderstood!


----------



## BUSTINOUT (Mar 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by bludevil *_
> Just think about it, why do you think the USA and Isreal have 2 of the biggest armed forces in the WORLD, and both nations are Christians by majority. Let me tell you, it's not by coincidense.



Hmmm...as a Christian that is news to me.  Last I checked they were called Jews.  That is by no means meant disrespectfully to all my Jewish peeps out there.


----------



## Jodi (Mar 21, 2003)

> The list goes on but doesn't seem to include sparing the lives of many innocent Iraqi civilians.



Then why haven't we just bomb the fuck out of them yet?  
Why did our government make the initial attack an attempt to take out just the leaders and try to end it there?  
Whey are we protecting the Iraqi soilders that don't want to fight instead of just killing them? 
Why do you think its about oil when in fact the US has plenty of it own?
Why are we asking all countries to at least support the humanitarian aid with Iraq?


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 21, 2003)

Jodi: You have got to be kidding me. You don't think USA has an interest in Iraq's oil?!
And to answer all your other questions: TO LOOK GOOD! Isn't it obvious? Furthermore they want the Iraqi soldiers to surrender, because it's easier than killing them...as simple as that.
And don't try to make it sound like you Americans actually give a damn about other people because that has clearly been proven wrong in this thread!
Have a nice day supporting an unjustified war!


----------



## Jodi (Mar 21, 2003)

I 100% don't believe that is the reason we are there.

Too look good, are you kidding me, thats your best answer, is that all you got?  Please, you have to have a better answer than that 

Oh and another one, that I've heard a few times and nobody has answered. 

What else could have been done to resolve this?


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> What else could have been done to resolve this?



You could have given the weapon inspectors more time. You could have tried to assasinate Saddam from within Iraq. Or you could have just minded your own freaking business like the rest of the world told you to!


----------



## Jodi (Mar 21, 2003)

So, just like we ignored Osama and look what happened.  

Oh Good Answer, bravo!!!    What and idea, why didn't we think of that.

Thats right we should just ignore 9/11 and the thousands of innocent citizens that were killed for nothing.


----------



## BUSTINOUT (Mar 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Corri *_
> Who is really asking the Americans to protect us from the big bad Iraq anyway?
> 
> Is your government gonna be doing us a favour by taking over their oil wells for us when the war is over and done with too?
> ...



you wouldn't happen to be M-G's twin would you?  we don't want their oil dumbass.


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Thats right we should just ignore 9/11 and the thousands of innocent citizens that were killed for nothing.



First of, you trained Osama Bin Laden! Secondly 911 was a tradegy, but Iraq had nothing to do with it.


----------



## Jodi (Mar 21, 2003)

This war is about World Terrorism.     And it has been since they day we were attacked.  SO all those that lead terroist acts are involved and that means Iraq.  Did you loose any friends or family in  9/11??  Maybe if you did you would think a little differently.

I am noticing quite the trend here, all those that seem to oppose the war are very young in age.  And then I realized, I was 19 when the original Gulf War happened and I protested it.  Then as I GREW UP, I realzied that I was wrong and I think I was doing what every other teenager does, REBEL! 

So with that being said, in time, you'll learn and understand!  

Oh and you still really need to come up with a better answer than than "To Look Good".  

No other nation in this world has done what we have.  We are always the first ones to stand up and help and we are always the first ones to give money or help fight for what is right.  I'm not saying other countries don't but we are definately always there before anyone else.  Then it finally came time that we needed help and some of those who we have helped in the past turned away.  

Thanks to the help of our allies Britain and Australia we can all stand up for what we believe is right as a unity and make sure there is never another 9/11 here or anywhere else in this World.


----------



## BUSTINOUT (Mar 21, 2003)

Just seeing kuso get pissed was worth reading this thread.  Thanks K! 

Oh yeah, and God bless the world...and the ants on the ground...and the leaves on the trees...and all the pretty flowers...and the whole universe...and all the green men on mars.  I hope nobody feels left out.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Yes USA is indeed a very violent country! And you guys seem to be proud of it. Bottom line: Iraq as a country never posed a threat to you! So stfu and stop trying to justify everything with your arrogance towards the world. Your media has manipulated you into thinking the government does this for the sake of "freedom", when in reality it's more likely that oil is the real motive. Furthermore Bush hates Saddam from back when he tried to assasinate Bush Senior. The list goes on but doesn't seem to include sparing the lives of many innocent Iraqi civilians.
> 
> Once again = The world is against this war but you obviously couldn't care less... that leaves me thinking that your true values are not freedom, but rather ignorance and arrogance!
> ...



Prove to us that it's about the Oil.  

You can say whatever you want, but until you provide proof what you say is just opinion, and opinion is simply _*a belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.*_  Otherwise known as "TOTALLY WORTHLESS IN A DEBATE."


----------



## Sebi (Mar 21, 2003)

Hi Jodi,

I tried to answer your questions. Some of the answers are based on facts, some of them are what cleverer people than me think of the situation.



> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Then why haven't we just bomb the fuck out of them yet?



This would be a dangerous thing to do, because the U.S. claims that this war is about preventing terrorism. If you "bomb the fuck out of them" it will leave no doubt as to the real reason of the war. Many civilians will die, most of them children. This kind of mass destruction will never be tolerated by other counries. Not to mention, that the war is said to be against mass destruction weapons.



> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Why did our government make the initial attack an attempt to take out just the leaders and try to end it there?



For the U.S. a quick war is far more convenient than a long one. The offer Bush made is a nice one, but firstly he never thought Saddam will leave his country (firs of all if he leaves the country, he will be faced with the crimes he comitted), secondly if he does leave the contry, who do you think will take control over the country and it's oil?



> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Whey are we protecting the Iraqi soilders that don't want to fight instead of just killing them?



I can't comment on this. Where do you have this info from?



> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Why do you think its about oil when in fact the US has plenty of it own?



This is the easiest of the lot. Oil reserves of the Earth will come to an end. Your country's way of handling this problem is, that you stock oil, and use other contries'. That way, when all reserves are out, you still have a lot on your own. This policy is not a secret, I have no idea, why they don't teach it at school. A clever strategy btw.



> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Why are we asking all countries to at least support the humanitarian aid with Iraq?



Money.


----------



## Sebi (Mar 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pianomahnn *_
> Prove to us that it's about the Oil.
> 
> You can say whatever you want, but until you provide proof what you say is just opinion, and opinion is simply _*a belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.*_  Otherwise known as "TOTALLY WORTHLESS IN A DEBATE."


Take a look at the stock exchange.


----------



## Jodi (Mar 21, 2003)

IMO (and also from analyst).... We tried to take a quick shot to take Saddam out of power to end this war quickly.  Our goal is to take him out of power and help rebuild Iraq for the civilians, not go after oil.  

And yes, from what I read that we are offering Saddam Republic Army "protection" per se, if they surrender.

Why do all you Non-Americans think we are vicious people.  We are not after anyones money, we are doing this to make the World a better place.  

We don't want another 9/11 and for that matter I willing to bet you don't want that to happen to your country either.


----------



## Sebi (Mar 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Why do all you Non-Americans think we are vicious people.  We are not after anyones money, we are doing this to make the World a better place.



No Jodi, I never said that. I have friends from around the world, and therefore - and not only because of this - I'd never judge anyone by his nationality like many here on this board do. I believe you that your goal is to make the world a better place. The same way think most people. And not a word I said was against you. I hope you realize that.  But I really see a danger in your president and his politics.


----------



## Jodi (Mar 21, 2003)

Well I can only hope that when all is said and done that the World is a better place.  I fully support my President, Troops and Country and what we are fighting for.
Hopefully we will never have another 9/11 anywhere in this world to have to look back on and say, "I told you so".


----------



## david (Mar 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Yes USA is indeed a very violent country! And you guys seem to be proud of it. Bottom line: Iraq as a country never posed a threat to you! So stfu and stop trying to justify everything with your arrogance towards the world. Your media has manipulated you into thinking the government does this for the sake of "freedom", when in reality it's more likely that oil is the real motive. Furthermore Bush hates Saddam from back when he tried to assasinate Bush Senior. The list goes on but doesn't seem to include sparing the lives of many innocent Iraqi civilians.
> 
> Once again = The world is against this war but you obviously couldn't care less... that leaves me thinking that your true values are not freedom, but rather ignorance and arrogance!
> ...



Hmmnn... my freedom line seemed to be omitted but that's what I was referring to for what we are fighting for.  Why should we continue to fight a Vietnam type war here in the US with our Firefighters, Police and Medical Teams (9-11 incident)?  To me, driving two planes into a building of 3,000+ lives (or deaths in this case) I beleive, is more violent, sneaky and cowardly.  If the terrorist want a war, then, face us head on and come out of their hiding.  But in this case, they have no choice...

As for my ticky tack statement of no caring or giving a flying fuck... it's bc/ analyzing our debt is something that is concerning but using it as point of anything is just another thing for protestors to wail about!


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by david *_
> To me, driving two planes into a building of 3,000+ lives (or deaths in this case) I beleive, is more violent, sneaky and cowardly.



You people just wont stop refering to the 911 incident! I honestly don't believe Iraq was involved! (THERE IS NO PROOF, let alone reason why you would suggest they were involved except rasism = all muslim countries breed terrorists etc.) Furthermore I don't think Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. Even if they did, why shouldn't they be allowed to, when YOU certainly do? USA is the only country that has ever used the A-bomb! (Japan WWII)


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 21, 2003)

...and hopefully, will be the last..


----------



## david (Mar 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> You people just wont stop refering to the 911 incident! I honestly don't believe Iraq was involved! (THERE IS NO PROOF, let alone reason why you would suggest they were involved except rasism = all muslim countries breed terrorists etc.) Furthermore I don't think Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. Even if they did, why shouldn't they be allowed to, when YOU certainly do? USA is the only country that has ever used the A-bomb! (Japan WWII)



Remember.... Saddam did use chemical warfare on his own people.... didn't he??

No comment on the 9-11 incident but for the fact that terrorist are responsible... your right.  But who are the terrorist?

As for the launch of the A-Bomb... wasn't that due to the part of the invasion of Pearl Harbor where the whole Naval Fleet was knocked out?


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 21, 2003)

Now we are racists? Are you for real?
I cannot figure it out: Do you hate America / Americans or have envy?

I cannot even debate w/ you, as you leave me baffled with a lot of your statements...


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 21, 2003)

Burner02: By rasism I mean that some people in here seem to link Iraq with Osama Bin Laden etc. because of their religion and skin color.


----------



## ZECH (Mar 21, 2003)

Berg and Sebi, you have made the wrong woman mad this time. I know when Jodi hops in, you have done it! I think you better stop while you can.










Sick em Jodi!!!!!!!!


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 21, 2003)

ok, that was a blanket statement though....did you mean stereotype, instead? I know English isn't your prime language


----------



## ZECH (Mar 21, 2003)

BTW.....................78% of the USA is supporting Bush now!!!!
Only 20% oppose.
And France is already wanting to have a role in the Post war Iraq. They want the benefits but don't want to help!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 21, 2003)

Yeah, we have had fox on here @ work all day. I'd invite France..to stay at home..


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Burner02 *_
> ok, that was a blanket statement though....did you mean stereotype, instead? I know English isn't your prime language



Yes. Sorry! I meant stereotype... I actually believe that most people and countries have made that mistake. Myself included after 911.


----------



## Sebi (Mar 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Berg and Sebi, you have made the wrong woman mad this time. I know when Jodi hops in, you have done it! I think you better stop while you can.


Stop---what? The conversation? You are not the one to tell me what to do. Or are you afraid of other people's opinion? You claim to have the freedom of thoughts, and now you want to control it. Not nice indeed.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Sebi *_
> Take a look at the stock exchange.



Hi.  That doesn't prove a point.

Once again, I ask for proof supporting this claim.  If you don't have any, I understand.  Because there isn't any.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Furthermore I don't think Iraq has weapons of mass destruction.



That's all fine and dandy.  But the UN Security Countil does.  And last time I checked they have a whole lot more information than you do.


----------



## Sebi (Mar 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pianomahnn *_
> Hi.  That doesn't prove a point.
> 
> Once again, I ask for proof supporting this claim.  If you don't have any, I understand.  Because there isn't any.


Larry Lindsey, ex economic adviser said so too. If this is not a proof...


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 22, 2003)

Pianomahnn: Hans Blix said that he thought they might have weapons of mass destruction, but they had no proof whatsoever. I thought your system worked like this: "Innocent till proven guilty." Does that not apply to forregn countries when you are the ones making the allegations?


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 22, 2003)

http://www.connery.dk/index.php?artikelid=1009&PHPSESSID=1e015abd24886a54a24425f3cf8bc47f


----------



## david (Mar 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Sebi *_
> Stop---what? The conversation? You are not the one to tell me what to do. Or are you afraid of other people's opinion? You claim to have the freedom of thoughts, and now you want to control it. Not nice indeed.



No, I don't think dg is trying to tell you what to do but leading you to some advice.

Continue on and let your opinions flow... no one will ever stop you!  How about... post more of your bodybuilding idea's and your workout... you seemed to be very impressive by the looks of your avi!  Personally, I'd rather hear how you've achieved success.  Isn't this what this Forum  is about??


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 22, 2003)

good point, Dave-
I have been thinking that a lot of us must agree that we will not agree...

For each side...
For every point an anti-war stance person can say, someone else can come up with three 'facts' to dispove it, and vice-versa.


----------



## Sebi (Mar 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by david *_
> No, I don't think dg is trying to tell you what to do but leading you to some advice.
> 
> Continue on and let your opinions flow... no one will ever stop you!  How about... post more of your bodybuilding idea's and your workout... you seemed to be very impressive by the looks of your avi!  Personally, I'd rather hear how you've achieved success.  Isn't this what this Forum  is about??


yep it's getting boring. I started a log though.


----------



## Jodi (Mar 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> You people just wont stop refering to the 911 incident! I honestly don't believe Iraq was involved! (THERE IS NO PROOF, let alone reason why you would suggest they were involved except rasism = all muslim countries breed terrorists etc.) Furthermore I don't think Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. Even if they did, why shouldn't they be allowed to, when YOU certainly do? USA is the only country that has ever used the A-bomb! (Japan WWII)



Silly boy, you are the one thats sheltered  - You ever hear of Salman Pak????  Do a search.


----------



## ZECH (Mar 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Sebi *_
> Stop---what? The conversation? You are not the one to tell me what to do. Or are you afraid of other people's opinion? You claim to have the freedom of thoughts, and now you want to control it. Not nice indeed.


No I meant talking about something you have no idea what the crap you are talking about. I have yet seen anyone on your side that has made a valid point...................and you never will.


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 22, 2003)

dg806: Never underestimate the power of denial!


----------



## ZECH (Mar 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Furthermore I don't think Iraq has weapons of mass destruction.


Go ahead and keep denying it...........................I want to see what you will say when we get in Baghdad and find all this shit. I bet you won't come around then!!!!!!!! I hope it blows up in your face!


----------



## Jodi (Mar 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> Pianomahnn: Hans Blix said that he thought they might have weapons of mass destruction, but they had no proof whatsoever. I thought your system worked like this: "Innocent till proven guilty." Does that not apply to forregn countries when you are the ones making the allegations?




  Yup, innocent til proven guilty.  And thats what we've gone in to do, Prove them Guilty.

Oh and did you happen to do a search yet for Salman Pak?


----------



## david (Mar 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> dg806: Never underestimate the power of denial!




DENIAL (in this sense)= Talking to others who refuse to see the other side of things and are closed minded.


----------



## ZECH (Mar 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by david *_
> DENIAL (in this sense)= Talking to others who refuse to see the other side of things and are closed minded.


Exactly!


----------



## ZECH (Mar 22, 2003)

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/salman_pak.htm


----------



## ZECH (Mar 22, 2003)

Take that frusht, berg and sebi! Oh that's a lie?.................Ok.


----------



## ZECH (Mar 22, 2003)

BTW.................Thanks Jodi!!!  Great info!


----------



## david (Mar 22, 2003)

Salman Pak.... I expect someone to say that it's a lie to!


----------



## The Berg Master (Mar 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Yup, innocent til proven guilty.  And thats what we've gone in to do, Prove them Guilty.



That's not the way it works. You are not punished until it has been proven that you are guilty! In this case you think USA should bomb Iraq and then it's ok if they do find something even though they didn't have any proof when they started the war? That is STUPID !


----------



## Jodi (Mar 22, 2003)

Oh and we also go the meeting in Prague which involved Mohammed Atta and Iraqi officials.  

Shall I go on.


----------



## Pianomahnn (Mar 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The Berg Master *_
> That's not the way it works. You are not punished until it has been proven that you are guilty! In this case you think USA should bomb Iraq and then it's ok if they do find something even though they didn't have any proof when they started the war? That is STUPID !



I don't think you've read many of the documents from the UN.


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 23, 2003)

there will be no convincing the anti- people until there is hard evidence.
Not even worth arguing over...


----------



## kuso (Mar 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Burner02 *_
> there will be no convincing the anti- people until there is hard evidence.
> Not even worth arguing over...



EXACTLY!!!!! I know I said I was out of this one, but if Salman Pak was such a slam dunk Bush himself would have used it to help convince the UN and or the coilition......not only that, but personally I do have ( and remember, *I* am for action against Hussain ) a problem with people that sound like this being sources of the information.


"Charles Duelfer, the former vice chairman of Unscom, the U.N. weapons inspection team, who actually visited the Salman Pak camp several times.
 "I'm surprised that people seem to be shocked that there should be terror camps in Iraq. Like, derrrrrr! I mean, what, actually, do you expect?" 

Sounds like a bright cookie.


----------



## Jodi (Mar 23, 2003)

Kuso, I saw that article and there are thousands on Salman Pak and this probably has to be the worst one I read.  London Observer had some very good ones as well as Rush Limbaugh.


----------



## Burner02 (Mar 23, 2003)

Rush rules!


----------



## kuso (Mar 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Kuso, I saw that article and there are thousands on Salman Pak and this probably has to be the worst one I read.  London Observer had some very good ones as well as Rush Limbaugh.



I know there are a heap of them, I did a search myself 

I still have to wonder why it was not used by any of the powers that be though


----------



## Mudge (Apr 2, 2003)

I hear now the French are vandalizing these grave sites.


----------



## david (Apr 2, 2003)

nice... real nice.....


----------



## RCfootball87 (Apr 11, 2006)

It's been what 3 years?  Accidentally brought this up in a search.  At 18 I suppose I'm a lot wiser than I was at 15, but my political theories and views remain relatively unchanged, I may just express them differently.  MY question now is...... HOW MANY OF YOU WHO MADE SUCH BOLD PRO-WAR STATEMENTS THREE YEARS AGO WOULD STAND BY THEM TODAY?  Is anyone prepared to tell me it was worth a kid I went to church with getting blown to bits by a road side bomb in Fallujah?  Where were those WMDs?  Yikes.  What's with $2.80 a gallon at the pump.  Yikes.  I seriously don't want to start another huge debate, I'm just to curious to know if opinions have changed at all......


----------



## clemson357 (Apr 12, 2006)

RCfootball87 said:
			
		

> What's with $2.80 a gallon at the pump.  Yikes.  I seriously don't want to start another huge debate, I'm just to curious to know if opinions have changed at all......



Im sure thats what concerns you....pathetic



back to the thread topic, isn't it hilarious that they French gave us all this shit, and now it turns out that they can't even control some rioting teenagers.... France was on the brink of going down the shitter,  they had no right to criticize anything about the US.  How long have those 16 year olds been rioting?  Is it months, or years??


----------



## maniclion (Apr 12, 2006)

Rob_NC said:
			
		

> Boy, this is getting fuqing boring. I wish we'd just say fuq it and start this thing so we have something different to argue about.  I can't wait for the day when we can say "See, we told you so" to all the nay sayers.


"See, we told you so"


----------



## Dale Mabry (Apr 12, 2006)

I think Albob's stance then was one of the better and more realistic stances.  Now excuse me while I clean the dirty off me for saying that.


----------



## maniclion (Apr 12, 2006)

If you hate the french then don't ever eat *biscuits *nor *omolette* again nor *sirloin* steak.  Don't use a *rifle, camoflauge* nor *espionage* nor a *bayonet*.  And don't eat at a *restaurant* and order *ala carte*.  Oh and you can never speak of *regime* change again.  And don't ever get inside an *ambulance*


----------



## maniclion (Apr 12, 2006)

And if you like *blondes* or *brunettes* too bad.


----------



## ALBOB (Apr 12, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> I think Albob's stance then was one of the better and more realistic stances.  Now excuse me while I clean the dirty off me for saying that.



Ewwwww, even I feel dirty now.


----------



## BigDyl (Apr 12, 2006)

clemson357 said:
			
		

> Im sure thats what concerns you....pathetic
> 
> 
> 
> back to the thread topic, isn't it hilarious that they French gave us all this shit, and now it turns out that they can't even control some rioting teenagers.... France was on the brink of going down the shitter,  they had no right to criticize anything about the US.  How long have those 16 year olds been rioting?  Is it months, or years??




Typical.  You ignored his entire post, picked out one sentance, and then insulted him for his concerns.


----------



## lnvanry (Apr 12, 2006)

Did you know that a section of Normandy Beach is sovereign US soil.  It was given to us after WWII.


----------

