# BB row free weight bar or smith machine?



## THEWIZARDOFKOZ (Jun 17, 2012)

i was watching a video recently posted in one of the forums and saw a pro using smith machine for BB row. I just wanted to get others opinions if using smith machine was better than just using free weight bar.

Thanks


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## Curt James (Jun 17, 2012)

Barbell rows seem more impressive to me, but that doesn't answer your question.



Obviously, the free weight will allow for freer _movement_, more momentum, and therefore a heavier weight used than the Smith machine, but if you're shooting for a "mind-muscle connection" then form and feel would seem to take precedence.

Again, that probably doesn't answer your question. 

Great thread starter. Hope you get a lot of feedback.


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## booze (Jun 17, 2012)

I do both. I tend to use smith when my back issues flare up and use lighter weights for mind muscle connection as curt said


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## THEWIZARDOFKOZ (Jun 18, 2012)

any more thoughts?


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## parsifal09 (Jun 18, 2012)

wiz,

i tried smith machine a few times. the movement is just too weird for me. and you see these pros using smith after theyre already huge,not before

people bring up dorian yates using a  smith machine,but he only  started using it  after he had become a pro

smith machine just isnt as healthy as using a barbell

i dont know about a mind muscle connection,but theyve done studies that prove  barbell exercises cause greater stimulation than a smith machine,so to me that is all i need to hear


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## KILLEROFSAINTS (Jun 18, 2012)

smith locks you pretty much in a straight line

could be uncomfortable on bb rows... you never want to  use the smith exclusively for anything cause it can cause over use injuries and wear in tear due to the unnatural lack of curve to the rom

i think smith could be used to etch in details in specific smal areas but not so good as a power move

like my back is plenty wide but lacks all that cool stuff in the middle


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## the_predator (Jun 18, 2012)

^KOS is on the money. Smith is such a locked movement. You want to be able to change you rom. Some guys bring the bar up to their lower stomach, some to belly button, and others even higher. You need to figure out what works for you and what is comfortable to you. Barbell has always worked well for me.


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## exphys88 (Jun 18, 2012)

KILLEROFSAINTS said:


> smith locks you pretty much in a straight line
> 
> could be uncomfortable on bb rows... you never want to  use the smith exclusively for anything cause it can cause over use injuries and wear in tear due to the unnatural lack of curve to the rom
> 
> ...



This is good info.


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## Cork (Jun 18, 2012)

KILLEROFSAINTS said:


> i think smith could be used to etch in details in specific smal areas but not so good as a power move



Sentences like this make me question strict bodybuilder training philosophy.  The smith can etch in specific details?  I'd love to hear the rationale behind that one.

BB rows will give you maximal recruitment because you will be using stabilizer muscles you never knew you had.  So to answer the OP's question, the smith is better used melted down and turned into 45lb plates.


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## exphys88 (Jun 18, 2012)

Cork said:


> Sentences like this make me question strict bodybuilder training philosophy.  The smith can etch in specific details?  I'd love to hear the rationale behind that one.
> 
> BB rows will give you maximal recruitment because you will be using stabilizer muscles you never knew you had.  So to answer the OP's question, the smith is better used melted down and turned into 45lb plates.



I generally try to avoid the smith machine, but it has some uses.  If you don't have a spotter and like to go to failure, or do rest pauses it can be a safe way to do them.


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## jimm (Jun 18, 2012)

both,variety is the spice of life....



but on a side note free weights WIN every time! pow!


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## jimm (Jun 18, 2012)

Cork said:


> Sentences like this make me question strict bodybuilder training philosophy.  The smith can etch in specific details?  I'd love to hear the rationale behind that one.
> 
> BB rows will give you maximal recruitment because you will be using stabilizer muscles you never knew you had.  So to answer the OP's question, the smith is better used melted down and turned into 45lb plates.





lmao :')


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## KILLEROFSAINTS (Jun 18, 2012)

Cork said:


> Sentences like this make me question strict bodybuilder training philosophy.  The smith can etch in specific details?  I'd love to hear the rationale behind that one.
> 
> BB rows will give you maximal recruitment because you will be using stabilizer muscles you never knew you had.  So to answer the OP's question, the smith is better used melted down and turned into 45lb plates.



i have plenty of lat width

rhomboids and traps not so much


hey the back is the most complicated muscle in your body...in my opinion the only bodypart where angles can matter


ronnie coleman is the only guy i can think of who got all of his back development from simple bb rows and deads


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## Cork (Jun 18, 2012)

Just think about all those poor smith machines out there.  Those 45lb plates just hanging off of them, taunting them, saying "Hey look, people actually make gains off of me." 

It's just not right.

Free the smith machine!!

And KOS, if you want to hit your traps and rhomboids, you should be doing overhand bb rows or chin ups.  Even close grip cable rows would be good.  I definitely agree with you that angles matter, that's why it's even more important to step away from the smith because the smith locks you into one single plane of motion... and it's surely not the best plane.


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## KILLEROFSAINTS (Jun 18, 2012)

cork said:


> just think about all those poor smith machines out there.  Those 45lb plates just hanging off of them, taunting them, saying "hey look, people actually make gains off of me."
> 
> it's just not right.
> 
> ...



lots of different ways to skin a cat


i was listing options for the smith

the safety of it my encourage more angles than traditional bbrows since the form on those isnt the easiest to learn i think


i dont even use the smith very often and said no one should


you can argue with yourself about limb length and everyones biomechanics being the same


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## tinyshrek (Jun 18, 2012)

Google John meadows smith machine rows. Mountain dog style rest pause rows murder your back. Whole different feeling than regular


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## parsifal09 (Jun 18, 2012)

dont need a smith machine for safety


u can just bench,etch in power rack and adjust safeties


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