# Smith Machine Do's and Don'ts. Pls help.



## Big G (Apr 20, 2007)

I bought a smith machine tonight. I love it. I can't wait to try it out, but I don't want to injur myself. Does anyone have any tips? Are there any things I shouldn't do? Anything I should watch out for with form, etc? Exercises to avoid?


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## P-funk (Apr 20, 2007)

The best thing I have found the smith machine for is to hang clothes on it when I am done ironing.


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## NordicNacho (Apr 21, 2007)

I hope your joking


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## Witchblade (Apr 21, 2007)

_Do's:_ supinated reverse rows, pushups, possibly pullups, find your receit and get your money back.

_Don'ts:_ use the smith machine.


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## AKIRA (Apr 21, 2007)

Ive asked before, so ill ask again.  What use is there for that machine?  For instance, on femalemuscle's myspace page, shes got a vid of Jay Cutler and he uses that damn machine.


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## Witchblade (Apr 21, 2007)

Everyone's answered before, but I'll answer again. There is none really, besides using the bar for some exercises.

---
Edit at previous post: remove supinated.


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## Triple Threat (Apr 21, 2007)

Big G said:


> I bought a smith machine tonight. Does anyone have any tips?



Return it and get your money back.  Instead, buy a power cage, adjustable bench, and olympic weight set.  Pocket the rest of the money or maybe buy a few dumbbells.


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## iMan323 (Apr 21, 2007)

Triple Threat said:


> Return it and get your money back.  Instead, buy a power cage, adjustable bench, and olympic weight set.  Pocket the rest of the money or maybe buy a few dumbbells.



^^^Amen.  You're obviously new to weight training.  The Smith Machine forces your body to lift weight in a very rigid, strictly defined path.  The problem is that your body doesn't work like that.  You do not lift weights in perfectly geometrical lines.  What that does is places undue and unnatural stress on your joints, forcing them to move in ways they aren't designed to move.  You will get injured with this equipment, I can say this with absolute certainty.  It's just a matter of when.


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## fufu (Apr 21, 2007)

Smith machines do's and don't's?

Smith machine - DON'T


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## camarosuper6 (Apr 21, 2007)

Good lord.  

Ok, while I am not saying that the Smith doesnt have it's down side, there is nothing WRONG with using the Smith properly for certain exercises.  Many of us, myself included, dont have the luxery of a spotter and the Smith comes in handy on those workouts which I need to push myself, and the style of training I use, this is very important.

There are potential downside's to using the smith, and I would always recommend that people new in lifting use free weights whenever possible, but those further advanced can really reap the benefits of a Smith Machine.

Here are some of the exercises I regularly use it for.

Incline Smith- rest paused
Military Seated Press
C-G Bench
Underhand Bench

Dont buy the injury hype about the Smith.  You are much more likely to get injured by not using a spotter under heavy weight.


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## vortrit (Apr 21, 2007)

camarosuper6 said:


> Good lord.
> 
> Ok, while I am not saying that the Smith doesnt have it's down side, there is nothing WRONG with using the Smith properly for certain exercises.  Many of us, myself included, dont have the luxery of a spotter and the Smith comes in handy on those workouts which I need to push myself, and the style of training I use, this is very important.
> 
> ...



Most benches that are made these days have safety spotters on them. Even the one at my gym has one.


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## danny81 (Apr 21, 2007)

I baught one . im trying to sell it know. i baught it so i didnt need a spotter.


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## vortrit (Apr 21, 2007)

danny81 said:


> I baught one . im trying to sell it know. i baught it so i didnt need a spotter.



I don't know why everyone always says that about a spotter. Just about every bench made these days has them and are usually much cheaper than a smith.


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## camarosuper6 (Apr 21, 2007)

You dont need to sell it.  Just buy more accessories to compliment it, like a power rack.


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## Witchblade (Apr 21, 2007)

Bench pressing on the smith machine, ugh. Calf raises are one thing, but bench pressing in a fixed line is really horrible. 

If you want to do crazy HIT stuff without _anyone_ nearby and without any safety pins, you still shouldn't use the smith. You should use another form of training. No need for rest-pause techniques.

I've said it in the other thread and I'll repeat it here since it's practically the same thread: machines are bad because of their fixed range of motion. The smith machine is even more limited with its single vertical line of motion. Injuries are just one of the many complaints you can make against the smith machine. I'd say not using stabilization muscles in an exercise is just as bad.

And even if you'd still want to do that kind of HIT stuff, why buy a smith machine. Buy safety pins, use cables, ask a friend to come spot or build your own safety mechanism.


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## Witchblade (Apr 21, 2007)

Charles Poliquin hates the smith machine as well.


> Q: I use the Smith machine extensively in my training, but I've been hearing that it's not the greatest piece of equipment ever invented. What's your take?
> 
> A: To be frank, I don't think much of the Smith machine. In fact, when I design a weight room for a client, I never ever buy a Smith machine. In fact, if a dork asks me a question about chest training during one of my workouts, I quickly prescribe him ten sets of 20 on the Smith machine as my way of getting revenge. One of the reasons that the Smith machine has so much publicity in the magazines is because it makes a great visual picture but, as far as functional transfer, it scores a big zero. It was probably invented by a physical therapist who wanted more business for himself.
> 
> ...


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## camarosuper6 (Apr 21, 2007)

I could really care less what Charles Pol thinks.  Seriously.


There is nothing with using Smiths as part of a complete routine.

I stand by that.


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## camarosuper6 (Apr 21, 2007)

lmao @ stablization crap.  If you are lifting heavy ass weights, your "stablizers" will get plenty of work, regardless of equipment.


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## NordicNacho (Apr 21, 2007)

so your saying you would buy one? bowflex is better then a smith machine


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## AKIRA (Apr 21, 2007)

Witchblade said:


> Charles Poliquin hates the smith machine as well.



Good article.


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## camarosuper6 (Apr 21, 2007)

I would most certainly invest in a Smith machine... albeit after a powerrack and lots of heavy weights.


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## iMan323 (Apr 21, 2007)

Somehow I'm more inclined to trust Paul Chek than camaro.


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## camarosuper6 (Apr 21, 2007)

Oh God.

Here is the bottom line.  Free weights should always be the first choice in any strength based program.  However, machines and the Smith Machine can be effectively utilized by those who have a good amount of experience training.

What really gets me is that most of the people spitting on the smith machine, are the same ones saying that doing heavy plyo's is completely safe.


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## buening (Apr 21, 2007)

The only thing i use that machine for is standing calf raises on a 4" platform. Having your heals off the platform gives a good stretch and ROM on calf exercises. My calves have exploded by doing this recently. I tried this same thing in a power rack and i had to lean forward enough to keep balance that it really took away from my calf raises.


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## gr81 (Apr 21, 2007)

I understand what your saying Camaro, clearly its not your staple machine but its alright as part of this balanced breakfast, yes? seriously tho, just b/c Jay Cutler does them, or Charles Poliquin doesnt', does this mean thats what we should base our decision on? of course not. You shouldn't squat on the smith, I think thats pretty clear b/c of injury sake. other than that there are few things that can be universally good or bad. I hop on the smith at times to warmup up my shoulders with some pressing. Why is the smith any worse than Hammer strength or any other machine? He has stated that obviously free weights always come first so whats the problem?


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## Witchblade (Apr 21, 2007)

I'm not going to revive this discussion again, but seriously gr81, warming up on the smith is even worse than using it in general. Warming up is all about proper mobility and proper motor patterns.


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## MeatZatk (Apr 21, 2007)

I use the smith for incline press and I think it works great.  That's all I use it for though.


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## gr81 (Apr 21, 2007)

First off I have been saying for YEARS on this very board that the smith machine is not only dangerous to squat on, but that the rest of its worth is inch deep. I am just playin devils advocate to all the comments about how bad it is. The fact remains that its just another piece of equipment. Camaro was not saying its better than free weights or even other machines, so lets keep perspective is my only point.


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## camarosuper6 (Apr 21, 2007)

Gr81... good to see you.  VERY long time no see bro.

 Everyone has certain staples in their own schemes.

For me, I will stick with using the smith on occasion, and grow plenty from it, injury free.


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## Duncans Donuts (Apr 21, 2007)

Witchblade said:


> I'm not going to revive this discussion again, but seriously gr81, warming up on the smith is even worse than using it in general. Warming up is all about proper mobility and proper motor patterns.



Some people, like me, would argue that proper warm up is for increasing blood flow (increasing oxygen from myoglobin), snovial fluid  in the tendon sheaths, and to just be able to focus and wake up.

There are specific warm ups and general warm-ups, of course.


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## Duncans Donuts (Apr 21, 2007)

Witchblade said:


> Bench pressing on the smith machine, ugh. Calf raises are one thing, but bench pressing in a fixed line is really horrible.
> 
> If you want to do crazy HIT stuff without _anyone_ nearby and without any safety pins, you still shouldn't use the smith. You should use another form of training. No need for rest-pause techniques.
> 
> ...



This is a silly philosophy and doesn't take into account the limits of barbells.  You are clearly anti-HIT and I can assure you the smith machine saved my life at a time when I used it.  

Saying that machines are bad is asinine.  Period.

Smith machines are great for squats for a narrow stance.  The fixed range of motion does limit the movement in certain plains, but this is not necessarily a bad thing.  You can certainly shift emphasis to the thighs without worrying about balance on a smith machine.  You can also use it for benefit without a spotter or for calves.

Changing exercises also adjusts the firing patterns of muscles, so it defitently has benefit as being an exercise that the body isn't used to.
No need for rest pause techniques?  According to who?


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## Duncans Donuts (Apr 21, 2007)

> Q: I use the Smith machine extensively in my training, but I've been hearing that it's not the greatest piece of equipment ever invented. What's your take?
> 
> A: To be frank, I don't think much of the Smith machine. In fact, when I design a weight room for a client, I never ever buy a Smith machine. In fact, if a dork asks me a question about chest training during one of my workouts, I quickly prescribe him ten sets of 20 on the Smith machine as my way of getting revenge. One of the reasons that the Smith machine has so much publicity in the magazines is because it makes a great visual picture but, as far as functional transfer, it scores a big zero. It was probably invented by a physical therapist who wanted more business for himself.
> 
> ...




What a larf.  You can avoid pattern overload by incorporating other exercises WHILE you use the smith machine.  You can also change the position of the seat, hand position, or simply use the smith machine sparingly.  These narrow-sighted views of exercise are based on personal bias and little else.

Just like with "don't perform leg extensions" nonsense.  You can avoid shearing force on the knee by avoiding a percentage of the lower range of motion.  The same philosophy is true for getting benefit out of the smith machine - recognize it's faults and work around them.


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## Duncans Donuts (Apr 21, 2007)

Lets all throw the baby out with the bathwater


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## slip (Apr 21, 2007)

I have found it quite good to get people comfortable with squatting.  They feel like they are going to fall backward with free squats etc etc.

Some of the boys at work have done 2 months on the smith and come back with much stronger bench numbers.

Saying that, I really dont like it, all points have been made about this already.


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## Duncans Donuts (Apr 21, 2007)

It should not be a large basis of your routine, but it defitently has value if used in moderation and with an understanding of it's biomechanical weaknesses


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## gr81 (Apr 21, 2007)

camarosuper6 said:


> Gr81... good to see you.  VERY long time no see bro.



right back at'cha mayn, it has indeed been a long time. I feel I need to pop in every now and then and keep things in check..lol


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## NordicNacho (Apr 21, 2007)

Duncans Donuts said:


> It should not be a large basis of your routine, but it defitently has value if used in moderation and with an understanding of it's biomechanical weaknesses




not even close to enough uses to buy one for personal use.  but may be thats just cause im poor and lift more for playing sports then for bodybuilding.  functional stength


"What you might perceive as positives with the device are in fact strong negatives. The perceived positives are only short-lived because, in a Smith machine, the weight is stabilized for you. However, the shoulder really operates in three planes. But if you do exercises in a Smith machine, none of the shoulder stabilizers need to be recruited maximally. For example, the rotator cuff muscles don't have to fire as much because the bar's pathway is fixed. That creates a problem when the trainee returns to free-weight training. When that happens, the trainee is exposed to the three-dimensional environment called real life. Since the Smith machine has allowed him to develop strength only in one dimension, it predisposes him or her to injury in the undeveloped planes of movement."



This seems true to me.  lots of people at my gym this is all they use sort of sad.  but there all old guys


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## gr81 (Apr 22, 2007)

NordicNacho said:


> not even close to enough uses to buy one for personal use.



I defn agree with that


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## danny81 (Apr 22, 2007)

my honest opinion is that free weights are always what you should base your workout on, but you could still use some machines or smith machines.


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## AKIRA (Apr 22, 2007)

NordicNacho said:


> This seems true to me.  lots of people at my gym this is all they use sort of sad.  but there all old guys



Ditto.  Them and women.  There are some people in my gym, even bodybuilders, that dont touch free weights.  Just a smith machine and regular machines.

What sucks about an argument coming from me, is that I appear smaller than these bodybuilders, plus, THEIR argument would be "experience" (cuz theyre older) and that their clients "arent training to move heavy weight; dont want to get too big; never going to be nor want to be powerlifters; etc"

I WANT to play devil's advocate, but its hard to sell.  The general PAYING population would take advice from this one guy over me cuz..

1.  Hes older.
2.  Hes competed.
3.  He makes their muscles burn.

Seriously, regardless if I made sense and or even correct, I wont be able to convince some people to use free weights alone or even in a mix.  Who cares though, I guess.

The reason for my concern is that now I look like Joe Jerkoff who thinks he knows everything.  I am glad this thread came up and I agree with Duncans and I agree with the writer.  Perhaps the writer is in agreement with Duncans's point along with camaro's, but as the article stands, it brings some light to the subject.


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## AKIRA (Apr 22, 2007)

Duncans Donuts said:


> It should not be a large basis of your routine, but it defitently has value if used in moderation and with an understanding of it's biomechanical weaknesses



This is what I agree with, however, the responce would be something along the lines of eliminating its rare use due to other useful movements that are just as effective and mostly better.


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## Leatherface (Apr 22, 2007)

_Smith machines are great for squats for a narrow stance. The fixed range of motion does limit the movement in certain plains, but this is not necessarily a bad thing. You can certainly shift emphasis to the thighs without worrying about balance on a smith machine. You can also use it for benefit without a spotter or for calves._

I have to agree with this.

I am 33 and have been lifting since I was 18.  I'm also tall at 6'-4".  For years I believed that free-weight squats were the only way to add mass to my thin quads.

I squatted for a looong time and my strength went way up in the lift, but my ass also got huge and my leg size never got too impressive. 

On the suggestion of a friend, I tried squatting in a Smith Machine with my feet about 12 inches apart AND about a foot in front of me, almost replicating a Hack Squat.

This exercise worked wonders for my quad development and triggered fantastic gains for my legs.

I will say, however, that I have tried the Smith Machine for several other exercises and never found it to be as helpful as it was for the type of squats I was doing.


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## Favre (Apr 22, 2007)

Man, I love the smith machine but only for a few exercises. CGBP, front squats, calf raises, and putting the bar all the way up and doing pullups off it.  I don't regret buying it at all 7 or 8 years ago. I have plenty of other stuff though and free weights should make up the majority of your exercises. To sit here and say it's absolutely worthless though is kind of dumb. Peoople get way too caught up in what they themselves do, their own little personal preferences, and everyone else is just wrong.


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## Big G (Apr 23, 2007)

Jeez!  Popular thread. Who knew it'd get people so worked up!

Thanks to everyone for your _opinions_. Clearly the Smith Machine is a love-it-or-hate-it peice of equipment. 

I paid $275 for 300lb olympic weights, deadlift olympic barbell, olympic curling (EZ) bar, a really nice commercial incline/decline bench w/preacher + leg accessories, plus the smith machine. Despite what everyone says, I absolutely love it. I couldn't be happier.

Historically I've always done dumbbell presses as my main chest exercise but, when my stablizer muscles give out, my chest is often still OK. Switching to the smith machine enables me to blast the f&^% out of my chest without a spotter (I never have a spotter at home. No-one near where I live is into bodybuilding like me.). I have full intentions of building my stablizer muscles up as best I can, but I'd still like to see some chest development too! In time, my stablizer muscles should catch up and I won't need the smith machine to get a good chest burn.

With all that said, I can appeciate what everyone is saying about the fixed up&down movement. I knew that was an issue, hence the reason I posted this thread. Whether the smith machine is worthless or not is clearly just a metter of personal opinion. For me, with only five months of weight training under my belt, I'm delighted to have this peice of equipment in my garage (especially for such a low price). The way I look at it is that I wouldv'e paid $275 for the weights, barbell, EZ bar and the really nice incline/decline bench, so the smith machine was basically free! 

At the end of the day I'm just comforted by the fact that I can not crush myself using this equipment. If I want to blast some serious weight I'll be on the smith machine when there's no-one around to spot me.

Thanks everyone.


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## AKIRA (Apr 23, 2007)

Favre said:


> Man, I love the smith machine but only for a few exercises. CGBP, *front squats*, calf raises, and putting the bar all the way up and doing pullups off it.  I don't regret buying it at all 7 or 8 years ago. I have plenty of other stuff though and free weights should make up the majority of your exercises. To sit here and say it's absolutely worthless though is kind of dumb. Peoople get way too caught up in what they themselves do, their own little personal preferences, and everyone else is just wrong.



That might be an interesting idea...then again, it might hurt more on the shoulders.


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