# Is glutamine Shit what do you think?



## pureplaya616 (Dec 12, 2002)

I was browsing the web, when I came across aj article that totally blasted glutamine.  But with this site always acts like they are on the cutting edge of everything and they were are like the best thin since sliced bread.
http://www.testosterone.net/nation_articles/230glut2.html

http://www.testosterone.net/nation_articles/231glut2.html


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## pureplaya616 (Dec 12, 2002)

damn, posted it in the wrong forum


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## hardHITer001 (Dec 12, 2002)

Its because Bio Test doesn???t sell glutamine.


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## KataMaStEr (Dec 12, 2002)

Glutamine is one of the best if not the best supplement I have ever tried.  I can feel the difference from when I???m taking in and when I???m not.  Never when I have been taking glutamine I have gotten sick or anything, stop taking it my sister gets a could and next thing I know I have it.


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## MONSTER4X4 (Dec 13, 2002)

Ditto to hardHITTER...biotest doesn't have a glutamine product so of course they're gonna blast it.


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## gopro (Dec 13, 2002)

Glutamine is on my top 3 best supplement list. It is one of the few things I use 365 days a year.


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## Arnold (Dec 13, 2002)

I use Glutamine daily, but I cannot say that I "feel" anything from it.


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## crackerjack414 (Dec 13, 2002)

iam not as sore after using glutamine, definilty worth the price on my opinion


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## pureplaya616 (Dec 13, 2002)

I just saw the article and found myself shocked.  I had never found an article saying glutamine was worthless.  It also seemed like it scientifically backed but I am reluctant to listen to a supplement company on anything.  I still use glutamine I just wanted to know hat you guys thought of it.


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## Robboe (Dec 14, 2002)

For 97% of any situations, it is shite.


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## Arnold (Dec 14, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> For 97% of any situations, it is shite.



really?

how do you know?


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## KataMaStEr (Dec 14, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> really?
> 
> how do you know?




What do chickens know about glutamine?


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## gopro (Dec 14, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by KataMaStEr *_
> What do chickens know about glutamine?



ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## KataMaStEr (Dec 14, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




That???s what I though


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## LILFLEX (Dec 14, 2002)

Glutamine is one supplement you better be taking daily,I take 6000mg a day


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## Robboe (Dec 15, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> really?
> 
> how do you know?



Well i made that number up, but it's an unnecessary cost.


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## Arnold (Dec 15, 2002)

yeah, I assumed that you made the number up....I was asking how can you be so sure that it's a waste of money?


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## KataMaStEr (Dec 15, 2002)

Probably work for different people in different ways but as long as it works for me and I feel the it working I don???t care how many ???studies??? or people say is useless. I only spend $40 every two months on glutamine so that???s not so bad.


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## gopro (Dec 15, 2002)

50 + g of peptides per day for this guy, and worth every penny!


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## crackerjack414 (Dec 15, 2002)

dame i thought  i was taking alot with 20g ed lol


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## Robboe (Dec 17, 2002)

Prince, everything i've ever read about glutamine indicates it's and expensive and unnecessary cost for a lot of most people's goals.

And i've used it myself and noticed absolutely no change. And this is the case with a lot of the guys in my gym.

If you're wanting to compete or in later stages of dieting down, and you have the money to spare then go for it.

For me, glutamine is 40 squids per 500g. That would last me about 10 days going off Gopro's recommendations. 

That's 40 squids that i could spend on food, clothes, a night out with my close friends etc...

40 squids every ten days in one year would mean i spend £1460 on glutamine alone. That is just ridiculous.

I'm not bashing glutamine all the time to try and change the minds of the Gopros or the KataMaStErs. I mention it cause i don't like the idea of newer, more impressionable lifters believing glutamine is a necessary requirement.


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## Arnold (Dec 17, 2002)

Well, what type of noticable change did you expect?

When you eat protein do you notice an immediate change from it?


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## Robboe (Dec 17, 2002)

Not straight away, no.

But the gains i can make without using glutamine were the same as with glutamine, only 40 squids cheaper.


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## Snake_Eyes (Dec 17, 2002)

There was a big discussion on the Supertraining list about this topic recently:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Supertraining/message/26832

>More importantly, there are several studies showing that glutamine
>supplementation doesn't alter exercise-induced suppression of the
>immune system! The bottom line is that blood glutamine levels,
>whether they drop or not following exercise, don't seem to affect
>immunity to any great extent, which precludes the use of glutamine
>for this reason.

The small reductions in plasma glutamine that follow prolonged endurance
exercise likely do not affect immune function. The reduction is small and
short-lived (approx. 2 hours or so), and plasma glutamine rarely drops below
normal concentrations during this time.



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Supertraining/message/26906

>>So, would there be any reason for someone who is on a regular
>>resistance training program to supliment glutamine. Or is that just
>>a waste of time and money?

Currently there's no good evidence that glutamine supplementation will offer
benefit to resistance trainers.


My thinking is that its placebo effect. Taking a single amino won't do any more than taking a lot at once (ie, a complete protein source). In fact taking more of one than any other can be detrimental. Whey protein is much, much cheaper than glutamine.


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## Mudge (Dec 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by pureplaya616 *_It also seemed like it scientifically backed but I am reluctant to listen to a supplement company on anything



Unfortunately for us, there will always be biased or ill conducted research. Someone sponsors a study, who often may already have an opinion on what they are going to find, and of course they find what they were looking for.

You will find research that says one thing, and someone else that "finds" something totally different. So, take scientific studies with a grain of salt, like most things in life, buyer beware.


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## Arnold (Dec 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Not straight away, no.
> 
> But the gains i can make without using glutamine were the same as with glutamine, only 40 squids cheaper.



well, you would have to take glutamine on a regular basis for around 12 months and monitor your progress, then stop taking it for 12 months and monitor your progress, then compare. And in that time make sure that everything else is the same, e.g. diet, training, etc.


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## gopro (Dec 18, 2002)

Studies, studies, studies...wonderful aren't they! Too bad anyone can find a study or an expert to support their claims and/or opinions.

Well, look. If TCD took it and it did nothing for him, who can argue? If Snake Eyes thinks glutamine works only as a placebo, what can I say. I can only offer MY experience...which is...

The shit works! I notice a big difference when off of it and have grown more while on it. My clients have responded very well to it...especially the ones that train very hard and the ones that seem to have lousy immune systems.

I also should mention that my "recommendation" is not 50 g per day as I take. To most, I recommend about 15-20 g per day. I can get it cheaper than most, I weigh more than most, and I have found that this particular amount works especially well for me.


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## Snake_Eyes (Dec 18, 2002)

Again I ask.....why not just get more protein then?

Aminos work in groups, not alone.


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## cornfed (Dec 18, 2002)

True, but there is always the argument over which amino's are the most essential 


I say we all just take large doses of tryptophan   ...or argue about protein needs  (after a point, they both have the same effect)


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## Robboe (Dec 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Studies, studies, studies...wonderful aren't they! Too bad anyone can find a study or an expert to support their claims and/or opinions.



If that were really true, then you could find me a study showing that oral glutamine does aid all the things you claim it does.

Yes, a slight boost in hGH can be gained, but this is really a moot point since it's not a significant amount released.

I wish you good luck, now go forth and seek.


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## Robboe (Dec 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by cornfed *_
> I say we all just take large doses of tryptophan   ...or argue about protein needs  (after a point, they both have the same effect)



That would be funny. There's nothing quite like a comatoze arguement.


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## KataMaStEr (Dec 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> If that were really true, then you could find me a study showing that oral glutamine does aid all the things you claim it does.
> 
> Yes, a slight boost in hGH can be gained, but this is really a moot point since it's not a significant amount released.
> ...





KaTaMaStEr Ultimate Anti-Chiken Lab found glutamine supplementation to have steroid like effect, 8 out of 10 subjects gained 35lbs of LBM in one week.  King B.S. 2002; 69:507-32


 J/K


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## gopro (Dec 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Snake_Eyes *_
> Again I ask.....why not just get more protein then?
> 
> Aminos work in groups, not alone.



Certain aminos when taken in larger doses will perform differently than when taken as part as a complete protein...

-glutamine
-arginine
-tryptophan
-tyrosine
-etc


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## gopro (Dec 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> If that were really true, then you could find me a study showing that oral glutamine does aid all the things you claim it does.
> 
> Yes, a slight boost in hGH can be gained, but this is really a moot point since it's not a significant amount released.
> ...



Don't need to seek. Have done enough "in house" studies of my own to prove glutamine's efficacy. And I trust my own "studies" more than those of lab coats!


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## Arnold (Dec 19, 2002)

have to agree with gopro on all points here.


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## Robboe (Dec 19, 2002)

Weak answer, Mr Brosser. It basically goes to show that "anyone can find a study or an expert to support their claims and/or opinions" is totally wrong.


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## Snake_Eyes (Dec 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Certain aminos when taken in larger doses will perform differently than when taken as part as a complete protein...
> 
> -glutamine
> ...




Based on?


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## Arnold (Dec 19, 2002)

I think it's cute how TCD and Snake Eyes both try and gang up on gopro!


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## Snake_Eyes (Dec 19, 2002)

I think its cute how everyone resorts to childishness when they can't provide a straight answer.


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## gopro (Dec 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Snake_Eyes *_
> Based on?



Oh please Snake...do you have any experience with supplementation at all. Based on what? Go ahead and take 2000 mg of tyrosine before your next workout and see what happens.


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## KataMaStEr (Dec 19, 2002)

If it work for you GR8, if it doesn???t work and you and think it???s all BS then too bad so sad. Gopro and many other people feel they benefit from taking it including me.  If that???s not a straight answer then I don???t know what is. I don???t know about you but the experience from other people using it is worth more for me than any ???study??? some guy does on it.


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## gopro (Dec 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> I think it's cute how TCD and Snake Eyes both try and gang up on gopro!



-Tom and Jerry
-Abbott and Costello
-Beavis and Butthead
-Snake and Chicken


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## gopro (Dec 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by KataMaStEr *_
> If it work for you GR8, if it doesn???t work and you and think it???s all BS then too bad so sad. Gopro and many other people feel they benefit from taking it including me.  If that???s not a straight answer then I don???t know what is. I don???t know about you but the experience from other people using it is worth more for me than any ???study??? some guy does on it.



We have had this argument before..it is really old. TCD will not accept our opinion on glutamine unless it is "backed up" by science. He needs as study "proving" its effectiveness. And Snake, well, he has other issues. We'll see...maybe I'll actually look at some journals and find some "proof" of what I and many others already know to be true...GLUATMINE is a very valuable and effective supplement when taken at the right times and in the right amounts.


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## Snake_Eyes (Dec 19, 2002)

My beef isn't that athletes need more protein in general.

My argument is about the supposed *necessity* of spending LARGE amounts of money on a single amino, when its never been shown to be efficient or even remotely useful. And yes, I have tried it myself. Recommending this to newbies, and ranking it as one of the most effective supplements is irresponsible.

As for "feeling" it works, I'd bet money that for every single person here who "feels" a difference with glutamine, I could substitute a simple sugar and tell you it was glutamine, and you'd see the exact same result.

The bottom line is that you can "feel" all you want, but when it can't be reproduced in a controlled environment, by trained athletes no less, that should tell you that maybe what you "feel" is possibly being caused by something else.


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## KataMaStEr (Dec 19, 2002)

Ok I'm tired of copy and paste. But from what I have found, I see a lot more "studies" about the good benefits of glutamine than what I have seen saying glutamine is BS




http://www.mvpnutrition.com/highrea1.htm
The Essential "Non-
Essential" Amino Acid 

http://www.mvpnutrition.com/highrea4.htm
Glutamine And
Human Enhancement

http://www.mvpnutrition.com/highrea5.htm
Glutamine And Human Performance


http://www.mvpnutrition.com/highrea6.htm
Glutamine, exercise and immune function. Links and possible mechanisms.

http://www.mvpnutrition.com/highrea7.htm
Glutamine and cancer

http://www.mvpnutrition.com/highrea8.htm
Is Glutamine a Conditionally Essential Amino Acid?  


http://www.mvpnutrition.com/highrea9.htm
GLUTAMINE SYNTHETASE MAY BE IMPORTANT ENZYME IN EPITHELIAL CELL DIFFERENTIATION.


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## KataMaStEr (Dec 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Snake_Eyes *_
> that should tell you that maybe what you "feel" is possibly being caused by something else.




Keep it coming!!! Whatever it is, I like it


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## Snake_Eyes (Dec 19, 2002)

In response-- 

1. Show me where any of those related to resistance training. I didn't even look because there's only been two studies done with glutamine's effect on resistance training. Everything in those is based on endurance athletes and/or trauma victims, and has been "extrapolated" to lifters. 

2. As for the immune system response-- even endurance training doesn't lower plasma glutamine *that* much, and its a very brief drop. Resistance training-- you guessed it. Little if any measurable effects on plasma glutamine levels.

3. Glutamine is synthesized by the body. Adequate protein will result in adequate amounts of glutamine. I don't know of any reason why, unless one was in a caloric deficit, the body would require more glutamine to fulfill any of its functions.


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## KataMaStEr (Dec 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Snake_Eyes *_
> In response--
> 
> 1. Show me where any of those related to resistance training. I didn't even look because there's only been two studies done with glutamine's effect on resistance training. Everything in those is based on endurance athletes and/or trauma victims, and has been "extrapolated" to lifters.
> ...




1.	I???m an ???endurance athletes???, Do you need endurance to finish that last set when you give yourself 20sec of rest. I don???t know about you but there are days in weight lifting that I start breathing harder than if I had just finished running 2 miles.  

2.	I guess I???m special because when I take it I don???t get sick, when I don???t I get sick. Short and sweet.

3.	WOW I wish it worked for me like that. I consume about 6lbs of protein every month. When I take protein and not glutamine I still sick.


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## KataMaStEr (Dec 19, 2002)

It???s not just about getting sick, I just feel better. 
You need ???prove??? go find it, looks like I or anybody here other than TCD have it. I Don???t have the answer that???s convenient for you. As for me I already know all I need to know about it. 

Ahh this is nice to take my posts up cuz we???ll never agree


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## Arnold (Dec 19, 2002)

January 1st we will have a two part article on Glutamine...stay tuned.


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## gopro (Dec 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Snake_Eyes *_
> My beef isn't that athletes need more protein in general.
> 
> My argument is about the supposed *necessity* of spending LARGE amounts of money on a single amino, when its never been shown to be efficient or even remotely useful. And yes, I have tried it myself. Recommending this to newbies, and ranking it as one of the most effective supplements is irresponsible.
> ...



I don't go by feeling. I make sure there is measurable results on top of "perceived" results. When testing a supplement I will do strength tests, bodyfat/lean body mass measurements, and bodypart measurements. Glutamine has proven itself to me time and time again.

Hey newbies...IF you choose to take supplements, and every other part of your program is in order, than make glutamine one of your first choices!


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## Robboe (Dec 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Snake_Eyes *_
> My argument is about the supposed *necessity* of spending LARGE amounts of money on a single amino, when its never been shown to be efficient or even remotely useful.



That's very well written. My sentiments exactly.

And we're talking oral here, not intravenous (where it seems to be very effective).

I've never denied glutamine raises hGH, which during the latter stages of dieting can be useful (albeit a very negible response), but to push the stuff for all causes is just ridiculous.


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## Robboe (Dec 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by KataMaStEr *_
> Ok I'm tired of copy and paste. But from what I have found, I see a lot more "studies" about the good benefits of glutamine than what I have seen saying glutamine is BS
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not gonna take an article too seriously that sells me the supplement it's pushing on the same site.

Besides, find an ORAL study on the stuff.


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## KataMaStEr (Dec 20, 2002)

They uses studies for that, look at the bottom of the page, they have the sources.


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## Arnold (Dec 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> January 1st we will have a two part article on Glutamine...stay tuned.



bump


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## Robboe (Dec 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by KataMaStEr *_
> They uses studies for that, look at the bottom of the page, they have the sources.



Yeah, i saw them.

But how many are relating to resistance trained athletes, and use the supplement orally.


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## Robboe (Dec 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> January 1st we will have a two part article on Glutamine...stay tuned.



Who's writing it?


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## Arnold (Dec 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Who's writing it?




Curtis Koch, he also wrote the 2 part article on Creatine:

http://www.ironmagazine.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=35

http://www.ironmagazine.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=37


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## gopro (Dec 21, 2002)

I just took a bath in a tub full of glutamine! Man I feel good now!


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## Arnold (Dec 21, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> I just took a bath in a tub full of glutamine! Man I feel good now!



must have put a nice dent in your wallet!


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## gopro (Dec 21, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> must have put a nice dent in your wallet!



Yes, but the anabolic effects make it worth it!


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## Redwolf (Dec 21, 2002)

Hello all, this is my first post.
I'm a six foot, 200 pound bodybuilder. I feel I have to say something about the Glutamine debate. 
 I've made good gains over the years, but found myself at a plateau for the last six months or so.
 I have always consumed 250 - 300 grams of quality protien every day (mostly powdered milk, eggs, tuna) and I keep up on carbs and essential fatty acids. 
 I had recently read a scientific, controlled study in FLEX attesting to Glutamines immediate effect on testosterone levels.
 It said that taking 5 grams of Glutamine with water only and on an empty stomach ALWAYS sent test levels way up there, and kept them up for 20 to 60 minutes. 
 I started taking these Glutamine shots during the day between meals and over the last month I've seen wicked gains.
 Happy as hell to bust out of that plateau, but lately all I read is that Glutamine is bunk.
 My question is ... has anyone read that article in FLEX or any similar studies on Glutamines effect on test levels?
 and - can glutamine be taken with creatine or do they compete for absorption?
 Thanx, I've really enjoyed all the info you guys spout.
 Later.


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## Robboe (Dec 22, 2002)

I've never heard of such a study.

Are you sure you're not thinking of hGH?

And by shots, you're not refering to injections are you?


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## Redwolf (Dec 22, 2002)

No, it was actually blood levels of testosterone that shot up dramatically, but the effect only occured when the glutamine was taken with just water. Add any other sugers or carbs and there was little to no effect. I'm gonna hunt down that article because it was heavily referenced and looked legit. It wasn't some Muscle-Tech add.
 And by shots I meant like in Tequila.
The study was showing how a person could naturally pulse levels of this anabolic hormone, if only for a brief surge, but every time they tested the subjects blood ... it worked without fail.
 Anyway, I tried it and I've been making highly noticeable gains for over three weeks. 
 I'll find that article, but if anyone else has heard of a glutamine - testosterone connecting I'd like to hear about it.
 Happy Holidays all.


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## Arnold (Dec 22, 2002)

Even if Glutamine did increase your T levels for 30-60 minutes I do not see how that would benefit you except maybe a quickie in the sack with your woman.

The only way that there is an anbolic benefit is if T levels are raised for at least 12 hours.


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## Redwolf (Dec 22, 2002)

I see. On a related topic, does anyone think Tribulus has any real effect on T levels? I know lifters who megadose this herb and claim to reap great benefits, even roid like side effects. I've even read that it should be cycled to avoid messing up the brain-balls connection.
 And wouldn't any possible boosting of blood testosterone levels be valuable to a bodybuilding lifestyle? Even if just for an hour or so between meals on a regular basis?


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## gopro (Dec 22, 2002)

RW...I have never heard of a testosterone/glutamine connection. I DO read Flex magazine and am curious if you know which issue you saw this in (month? who's on the cover?).

As to your gains from glutamine...good for you! I believe completely in the effects of glutamine and am very glad you are enjoying the benefits first hand.

As to tribulis. I do believe it is an effective supplement, especially for men over 35 or so. Its effects are not dramatic, but can be noticed over an 8 week period...some size and stength gain, as well as increased libido. As with most supps, effects very from person to person.


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## Robboe (Dec 23, 2002)

A lot of you guys must have weak-ass immune systems.

Or maybe you all live next to cell-phone roaming towers.

I take fuck all and yet i only get the flu maybe once a year or once every two years.


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## gopro (Dec 23, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> A lot of you guys must have weak-ass immune systems.
> 
> Or maybe you all live next to cell-phone roaming towers.
> ...



But Chicken...you are SPECIAL...


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## Robboe (Dec 24, 2002)

Yes. And i have hair.


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## Arnold (Dec 24, 2002)

maybe you're actually a mammal.


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## Robboe (Dec 24, 2002)

Nah, i think it's cause my balls are about to drop.


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## gopro (Dec 24, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Yes. And i have hair.



You just love to pick on me for balding, huh? I will admit...glutamine does many things, but it does not grow hair (even when applied topically...ummm, not that I've tried or anything...).


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## Tank316 (Dec 25, 2002)

ha, picking on someone cuz they're bald or going bald.   this whole glutamine thing cracks me up. i use both L and peptide form and will use it till the nurse at the nursing home tries to take it out of my grip.Also, i would like to add this little statement. for those who ''LIVE'' by bodybuilding, eat,sleep breath it, will always try a supp, and when they find one that works, will more then likely add it into they're supplement program.reguardless if its the cheapest or the most expensive, its a lifestyle. People race cars for a hobby, some snowboard, mt bike, or what ever your hobby is, it cost money.Its all about choices.


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## gopro (Dec 26, 2002)

Ahhhh...there he is...Tank, the voice of reason. Amazing that such a freaking monster psycho such as yourself can be so clam and well spoken (and then go to the gym and frighten all the other members)!!!!!!!!

GLUTAMINE=more muscle


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## Tank316 (Dec 26, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Ahhhh...there he is...Tank, the voice of reason. Amazing that such a freaking monster psycho such as yourself can be so clam and well spoken (and then go to the gym and frighten all the other members)!!!!!!!!
> 
> GLUTAMINE=more muscle


you know it.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## johnnymac (Jan 21, 2003)

I'd have to agree with gopro, if you are training hard like BB's do i'd recommend glutamine, why not!  I rank glutamine in my top 3 with creatine, protein.  And it does help in DOMS!
Later,


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