# cutting and lifting weights



## GoLdeN M 07 (Oct 19, 2008)

When in the process of cutting and doing all the things it says in the stickys for cutting and mainenence, is it okay to continue the routine I am following for gaining muscle mass and strength because it says cutting and _bulking _or am I supposed to focus on cardio?
Will I gain any muscle if I do continue lifting weights and stick with my routine and eat tons of protein, fats and complex carbs?


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## Ben dur (Oct 19, 2008)

i think you may be confused

cutting=loosing bodyfat, usually at the expense of SOME muscle mass, hopefully very little though

bulking=gaining as much muscle mass as possible, usually at the expense of gaining some bodyfat, hopefully very little

cutting bodyfat and gaining muscle mass, is an extremely difficult process, some would even say not possible...



if you are eating more calories than you burn, you will gain weight...
if you are eating correctly you will gain muscle

vice verse

if you consume less than burned you will loose weight
if you are eating correctly you will retain as much muscle as possible


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## Ben dur (Oct 19, 2008)

now... the routine, in my opinion is kinda secondary

if it works for gaining mass

and you cut calories

you will loose weight

focus on lifting heavy
do cardio regularly, but dont focus on it

right now i run 3 miles 2 times weekly
some would say thats alot

and im gaining weight

cardio and bulking?

others have broken into the 5-6% bf range doing no cardio at all


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## GoLdeN M 07 (Oct 20, 2008)

wait so does that mean its okay to continue lifting heavy weights while trying to cut? 

and i dont understand how these huge bodybuilders do it.. do they try to gain as much muscle as possible and then try to get cut?


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## GoLdeN M 07 (Oct 20, 2008)

Im not confused. im just wondering if it is okay to lift heavy weigths such as heavy DLs and bench presses and overhead presses for strength training perhaps while in the process of trying to get cut?

I mean just because ill be at a caloric deficit does that mean that I should not workout at all?


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## tucker01 (Oct 20, 2008)

yes lift heavy


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## h-townbadass (Oct 20, 2008)

I would probably change my work out routine to be honest with you. Yes you can still lift weights, but try to do super-sets and back-to-back exercises that will get you sweating and keep your heart rate up. Do not take your time like you would with lifting heavy, lift, break, lift, break, etc...

Instead, try using a little less weight and knocking out 2 or 3 different exercises for the same muscle all together. For example, on chest days I will set 2 heavy dumbells (usually 100 lb or so) and 2 medium dumbells (35-40) next to the flat bench. I will proceed to do 10 dumbell benchpress with the 100s, drop those and do 10 butterflys with the 40s, then drop those and do 10 tricep lifts with one of the 100s all in a row with no break. Try doing 3 sets of those and tell me how you feel. 

Lifting weight like this will burn way more calories than any cardio session, but if you're still up for it, get a mile or 2 AFTER you do your workout for the best results.


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## GoLdeN M 07 (Oct 20, 2008)

h-townbadass said:


> I would probably change my work out routine to be honest with you. Yes you can still lift weights, but try to do super-sets and back-to-back exercises that will get you sweating and keep your heart rate up. Do not take your time like you would with lifting heavy, lift, break, lift, break, etc...
> 
> Instead, try using a little less weight and knocking out 2 or 3 different exercises for the same muscle all together. For example, on chest days I will set 2 heavy dumbells (usually 100 lb or so) and 2 medium dumbells (35-40) next to the flat bench. I will proceed to do 10 dumbell benchpress with the 100s, drop those and do 10 butterflys with the 40s, then drop those and do 10 tricep lifts with one of the 100s all in a row with no break. Try doing 3 sets of those and tell me how you feel.
> 
> Lifting weight like this will burn way more calories than any cardio session, but if you're still up for it, get a mile or 2 AFTER you do your workout for the best results.




Sounds great. PLus I got my concentrated fish oil caps whcih will help me to burn more fat and maintain muscle mass and a shitload of more things having to do with fitness and health.

I just wanna focus on the big compound movements like deadlifts and overhead presses to get more bang for my buck. Is it okay to do lower reps for intensity (2-5 reps) or do I have to do higher reps?

Also If I am eating alot of protein fats and low carbs, wont I still gain some muscle when working out?


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## tucker01 (Oct 20, 2008)

lift heavy you want to preserve muscle mass.

in reality the calories burned won't be significantly different.


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## GoLdeN M 07 (Oct 20, 2008)

Also I know this is a general question, but after I get cut  is that the end of the line?

Am I supposed to strength train from there and not build any more muscle which would require a calory surplus which would again get me a little fat in the process as well..?


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## Ben dur (Oct 20, 2008)

you would then continue to lift 
and control your weight with diet

a "maintenance" diet would keep you in the same weight range
i personally gain muscle and loose fat simultaneously on a maint diet...

but im 20 years old
that itself is like being on steroids...


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## KentDog (Oct 20, 2008)

GoLdeN M 07 said:


> Also I know this is a general question, but after I get cut  is that the end of the line?
> 
> Am I supposed to strength train from there and not build any more muscle which would require a calory surplus which would again get me a little fat in the process as well..?


It just depends on what you want. Gaining muscle almost always comes with gaining fat. You then cut properly to lose the fat gained and retain the muscle.


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## GoLdeN M 07 (Oct 21, 2008)

KentDog said:


> It just depends on what you want. Gaining muscle almost always comes with gaining fat. You then cut properly to lose the fat gained and retain the muscle.



So does that mean that you should try to gain as much muscle as possible for as long as possible... and then when you feel that you have enough muscle (eventhough u cant really see it due to the fat gain as well) u start to cut.

and after u get cut... its over for you in terms of gaining muscle. If u try to gain muscle u would have to eat a shitload of calories again and get fat again and all the time u spend cutting wasnt worth it...?


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## GoLdeN M 07 (Oct 21, 2008)

Ben dur said:


> you would then continue to lift
> and control your weight with diet
> 
> a "maintenance" diet would keep you in the same weight range
> ...



So you would continue to lift after cutting mainly for strength training right?


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## MCx2 (Oct 21, 2008)

GoLdeN M 07 said:


> So does that mean that you should try to gain as much muscle as possible for as long as possible... and then when you feel that you have enough muscle (eventhough u cant really see it due to the fat gain as well) u start to cut.
> 
> and after u get cut... its over for you in terms of gaining muscle. If u try to gain muscle u would have to eat a shitload of calories again and get fat again and all the time u spend cutting wasnt worth it...?



Nope. If you cut properly you won't lose as much muscle as you gained and the same goes for bulking. If you bulk properly you won't regain as much fat as you lost initially. 

Say during your cut you lost 10 units of fat, you might lose 2-3 units of muscle. On the returning bulk if done properly you might gain 10 units of muscle and gain only 2-3 units of fat. See what I did there? You've gained 7-8 units of muscle and lost 7-8 units of fat. Rinse and repeat until you look the way you want to. 

Now that's obviously not scientific or anything, but it gives you a basic idea about how it works.


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## h-townbadass (Oct 21, 2008)

GoLdeN M 07 said:


> Sounds great. PLus I got my concentrated fish oil caps whcih will help me to burn more fat and maintain muscle mass and a shitload of more things having to do with fitness and health.
> 
> I just wanna focus on the big compound movements like deadlifts and overhead presses to get more bang for my buck. Is it okay to do lower reps for intensity (2-5 reps) or do I have to do higher reps?
> 
> Also If I am eating alot of protein fats and low carbs, wont I still gain some muscle when working out?



Eh, I'm by no means an expert, but I would say that the lower reps is more for heavy weights. If you plan on doing compound exercises and supersets, I would try to get as close to ten reps as possible for each exercise. 

As far as nutrition - I am also no expert on that either, but definitely keep your protein up and try to eat most of your carbs for the day AFTER you work out. Don't lose the carbs all together, but try to keep them in check and again, eat the majority of them after a work out. Eat your pasta, rice, tortilla, sandwich and stuff like that afterwards, and avoid the bread and everything else the rest of the day - easpecially after 8.PM in my opinion.


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## Ben dur (Oct 21, 2008)

i lift weights cause i love it

i meet tons of cool people
i feel great
its fun
its healthy
lots of girls
cheap entertainment

lifting is part of my lifestyle

im in the best shape of my life
and i can honestly say thanks to the people at this board for that

once you reach your fitness goals
create new ones

strive harder, and dig deeper


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## GoLdeN M 07 (Oct 21, 2008)

Ben dur said:


> i lift weights cause i love it
> 
> i meet tons of cool people
> i feel great
> ...



I feel the same way. Weightlifting is a great part of my life as well. It feels great lifting heavy and pushing your limits.

But Im just wondering if after I have successfully gotten cut and am happy, does that mean that I cant build any more muscle unless I start eating a calorie surpluss again and inevitably get a little fat as well.


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## GoLdeN M 07 (Oct 21, 2008)

ReproMan said:


> Nope. If you cut properly you won't lose as much muscle as you gained and the same goes for bulking. If you bulk properly you won't regain as much fat as you lost initially.
> 
> Say during your cut you lost 10 units of fat, you might lose 2-3 units of muscle. On the returning bulk if done properly you might gain 10 units of muscle and gain only 2-3 units of fat. See what I did there? You've gained 7-8 units of muscle and lost 7-8 units of fat. Rinse and repeat until you look the way you want to.
> 
> Now that's obviously not scientific or anything, but it gives you a basic idea about how it works.




Nice.. this is the answer I was looking for, thank you.

Im assuming that the muscle building period will take much longer than the cutting period..?


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## MCx2 (Oct 21, 2008)

GoLdeN M 07 said:


> Im assuming that the muscle building period will take much longer than the cutting period..?



That would all depend on how dialed in your diet is and what your overall goals are.


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Oct 22, 2008)

GoLdeN M 07 said:


> Nice.. this is the answer I was looking for, thank you.
> 
> Im assuming that the muscle building period will take much longer than the cutting period..?



It depends on where you are currently in regards to bf % and LBM.

Although I don't hold alot of "weight" to this lol.... it has been said each pound of body fat can release about 37 calories of itself per day. So the MORE FAT you have, the more total fat pounds can release their daily limit. Then, the closer you get to your goal, the harder your weight loss will seem to be and you may even think you've stalled because if you have 10 pounds of fat releasing 37 calories per day, that's 370 calories in one day and one pound of fat consists of about 3500 calories. So you may only be able to lose 1850 calories per week of fat (which is about half a pound). 

Best way is estimate your daily maintenance calories, and eat that way for a week. If you find yourself gaining weight, lower the calories, and if you find yourself losing weight, try to adjust the calories so you are losing about 1-2lbs a week. 

A general rule of thumb is... maintenance MINUS 500 calories per day.
However, being that the body is an adaptive machine, it will quickly realize you are at a deficit and adjust your metabolism accordingly, thus SLOWING your metabolism and maybe even stalling your progress. So my recommendations are, eat at a 500 calorie deficit for 5 days in a row, then for two days (usually weekends) eat at a 700 calorie surplus to SHOCK your metabolism and keep it guessing. This way it will keep your metabolism high and keeping your progress going.

This method of MINUS 500 calories for 5 days then ADD 700 calories for 2 days is one of those ways you can lose fat and add muscle at the same time. However the added muscle will be minimal, but this way you can keep your metabolism up, you won't lose muscle (you will gain it) and you will lose fat all in ONE!


But as far as fat loss vs bulking, it all depends on how many extra calories or how LITTLE calories you have. But if you lose more than 1-2lbs of fat per week it will also lose muscle and if you gain more than like maybe 1/2lb a week you will be adding fat as well. 

Experiment and have fun with it, although it seems like a timely process you will learn how YOUR body works better.


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## GoLdeN M 07 (Oct 22, 2008)

chronicelite said:


> It depends on where you are currently in regards to bf % and LBM.
> 
> Although I don't hold alot of "weight" to this lol.... it has been said each pound of body fat can release about 37 calories of itself per day. So the MORE FAT you have, the more total fat pounds can release their daily limit. Then, the closer you get to your goal, the harder your weight loss will seem to be and you may even think you've stalled because if you have 10 pounds of fat releasing 37 calories per day, that's 370 calories in one day and one pound of fat consists of about 3500 calories. So you may only be able to lose 1850 calories per week of fat (which is about half a pound).
> 
> ...



yea I read an article about this which I also posted on a thread in the diet and nutrition forums. Its called calory shifting and is said to keep ur metabolism _guessing_ and u will lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Im actually really interested in doing it but someone replied in saying that it sounds like bullshit.

If I had a huge calory surplus on the weekends, does that mean that I would have to workout on the weekends if i wanna build any muscle or is any day of the week fine?


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## Merkaba (Oct 22, 2008)

chronicelite said:


> It depends on where you are currently in regards to bf % and LBM.
> 
> Although I don't hold alot of "weight" to this lol.... it has been said each pound of body fat can release about 37 calories of itself per day. So the MORE FAT you have, the more total fat pounds can release their daily limit. Then, the closer you get to your goal, the harder your weight loss will seem to be and you may even think you've stalled because if you have 10 pounds of fat releasing 37 calories per day, that's 370 calories in one day and one pound of fat consists of about 3500 calories. So you may only be able to lose 1850 calories per week of fat (which is about half a pound).
> 
> ...



There's no need to experiment, at least not that much.  If you want to stay on a cut then stay on the cut, I wouldnt suggest a surplus unless it was your time for a cheat meal.  Read the sticky about Leptin.  I would suggest a refeed but not a 1400 calorie surplus unless you really needed to cheat.  But thats me.  Just don't quit.  That way it doesn't matter!


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## Hench (Oct 23, 2008)

Merkaba said:


> There's no need to experiment, at least not that much.  If you want to stay on a cut then stay on the cut, I wouldnt suggest a surplus unless it was your time for a cheat meal.  Read the sticky about Leptin.  I would suggest a refeed but not a 1400 calorie surplus unless you really needed to cheat.  But thats me.  Just don't quit.  That way it doesn't matter!



exactly, trying to 'shift' you calories to gain muscle and lose fat all at the same time will end up confusing you and you will get nowhere fast and not reach you goals. its too complicated, more so than it needs to be. bulk until you are happy with the size you are or you have a reason to cut e.g. being shirtless in the summer. then cut until you bf% is at a level that you want. then repeat the process. and as merkaba said there is no need to be in a 1400 calorie surplus at the weekends. you will obivously need to refeed to keep your metabolism ticking over, but 1400 calories is excessive and could end up reducing the amount of fat you can lose and so it will take longer to reach you goals. 

i have also heard a few people mention superset training while on a cut, in order to burn more calories. this is not the point of weight training during a cut. you control your calories via your diet, and aim to keep yourself in a deficit. you lift HEAVY!!! in order to retain muscle mass, not burn extra calories. 

on a differernt not, just had a look at ur pics merkaba, very impressive bud, espically all natty!


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## Ben dur (Oct 23, 2008)

fool me once
fool me... uh

fool me once shame on you
fool me twice...

once
twice
three times a lady


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## Merkaba (Oct 23, 2008)

Ben dur said:


> fool me once
> fool me... uh
> 
> fool me once shame on you
> ...





I talk about that all the time with poor Bush butchered it on national t.v...."Fool me once, shame ....on...

you...
Fool me twice........














Can't get fooled again! "


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## Merkaba (Oct 23, 2008)

Moondogg said:


> exactly, trying to 'shift' you calories to gain muscle and lose fat all at the same time will end up confusing you and you will get nowhere fast and not reach you goals. its too complicated, more so than it needs to be. bulk until you are happy with the size you are or you have a reason to cut e.g. being shirtless in the summer. then cut until you bf% is at a level that you want. then repeat the process. and as merkaba said there is no need to be in a 1400 calorie surplus at the weekends. you will obivously need to refeed to keep your metabolism ticking over, but 1400 calories is excessive and could end up reducing the amount of fat you can lose and so it will take longer to reach you goals.
> 
> i have also heard a few people mention superset training while on a cut, in order to burn more calories. this is not the point of weight training during a cut. you control your calories via your diet, and aim to keep yourself in a deficit. you lift HEAVY!!! in order to retain muscle mass, not burn extra calories.
> 
> on a differernt not, just had a look at ur pics merkaba, very impressive bud, espically all natty!


Thanks for the complements.  i really started my cut late and had about another gallon of water to get off. Oh well

Good point though about the supersets and what not when on a cut.  People really kill themselves when they don't have to.  The bad thing is that they can get away with it many times because the body is a miracle though they probably increased catabolism to some degree, thus losing density.   Underlying damage rears it's head later on though.


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## Ben dur (Oct 24, 2008)

theres this saying in Tennessee

its in texas anyways,
 probably in Tennessee


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## Built (Oct 24, 2008)

h-townbadass said:


> Eh, I'm by no means an expert, but I would say that the lower reps is more for heavy weights. If you plan on doing compound exercises and supersets, I would try to get as close to ten reps as possible for each exercise.


Sure, but he's cutting. Hence the low-rep work. Leave the 10-rep supersets for bulking, or at least maintenance, right?


h-townbadass said:


> As far as nutrition - I am also no expert on that either, but definitely keep your protein up and try to eat most of your carbs for the day AFTER you work out.


For appetite control, this is prudent advice. 


h-townbadass said:


> Don't lose the carbs all together, but try to keep them in check and again, eat the majority of them after a work out. Eat your pasta, rice, tortilla, sandwich and stuff like that afterwards, and avoid the bread and everything else the rest of the day - easpecially after 8.PM in my opinion.



Why limit the ones after 8? What if you train at six?


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## Merkaba (Oct 24, 2008)

Well you know that if you eat anything after 8pm it automatically turns into fat don't you built?  Geez get with the program!  the 1:2:1 Carbon Hyrdrogen Oxygen ratio is in direct proportion  with the earth: moon: and sun thus light cycles.   Read a book!


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## Ben dur (Oct 24, 2008)

wait...

i thought soda was a muscle building supplement and that only pure protein turned to fat...


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## KelJu (Oct 24, 2008)

GoLdeN M 07 said:


> yea I read an article about this which I also posted on a thread in the diet and nutrition forums. Its called calory shifting and is said to keep ur metabolism _guessing_ and u will lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Im actually really interested in doing it but someone replied in saying that it sounds like bullshit.
> 
> If I had a huge calory surplus on the weekends, does that mean that I would have to workout on the weekends if i wanna build any muscle or is any day of the week fine?



Why don't you stick with the basics until you get it right. All these crazy ass ideas are a waste of time. Spend more time perfecting the basics, and spend less time reading stupid shit.


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## Built (Oct 24, 2008)

<hangs head in shame>

<giggles>


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## KelJu (Oct 24, 2008)

Built said:


> <hangs head in shame>
> 
> <giggles>



We're all a bunch of assholes around here aren't we?


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## Built (Oct 24, 2008)

See, there's a *reason *why I fit in so fast...


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## KelJu (Oct 24, 2008)

Built said:


> See, there's a *reason *why I fit in so fast...




Lol! D&N mods seem to always have a certain attitude. Jodi was a total bitch. I loved her to death.   

It doesn't surprise me. To reach the level that you and Jodi were able to reach, you have to adopt a balls to the wall attitude which leaves little patients for bullshit.


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## tucker01 (Oct 25, 2008)

KelJu said:


> Lol! D&N mods seem to always have a certain attitude. Jodi was a total bitch. I loved her to death.
> 
> It doesn't surprise me. To reach the level that you and Jodi were able to reach, you have to adopt a balls to the wall attitude which leaves little patients for bullshit.


 
Fuck you


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## Ben dur (Oct 25, 2008)

i think your ALL a bunch of fucking meat heads


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## KelJu (Oct 25, 2008)

Ben dur said:


> i think your ALL a bunch of fucking meat heads



Hell Yeah!


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