# Priming and Off cycle therapy!!!



## TGB1987 (Mar 11, 2011)

In this thread I am going to try to shed some light on a subject that is often overlooked by many AAS users especially first timers. I want to talk about priming for a cycle and Off Cycle Therapy (OCT). Two very important topics for beginners to AAS and those experienced alike. Many people forget how important it is to have all the bases covered before beginning a cycle of AAS. It is very important to have diet, nutrition, and training in order prior to starting your cycle. This is called priming. When you prime for your cycle you are getting your body prepared to make the gains that will come from correct AAS use. Many people think they are ready for a cycle but in reality their bodyfat is too high or they have an improper diet. IF your bodyfat is over 12-14% and you decide to run a cycle you are going to be putting your body at a higher risk for many of side effects associated with AAS. You will be more prone to gyno, increased water retention, elevated Blood Pressure, and increased strain on the heart and kidneys. AAS are not a magic drug that you can take and just sit back while the drugs build the physique of your dreams. AAS require hard work and dedication to diet and nutrition to make successful gains in LBM. Priming is a way to prepare your body for what is about to come. If you have any doubts about training, nutrition, and diet you need to address these issues before your cycle otherwise you will not get the most out of your AAS. This forum has sections for Diet and nutrition, and Training. There is valuable information in these sections that often gets overlooked because people are anxious to start AAS right away without thinking things through first. Here are a couple articles I have been digging up on the subject of priming for a cycle and OCT after your PCT ends. Hope this will help open some eyes to what is possible when you have everything in order and are truly ready to use AAS. These articles can help you get the most out of your hard work and dedication. 


If it is one thing that I know, it’s that bodybuilders pay a great deal of attention to their cycles. Many guys are almost self-taught steroid scientists as they put so much emphasis on studying the right steroids, most efficacious dosages, and most appropriate collection of ancillary medications. Next to this, a great deal of attention is also paid to the Post-Cycle Therapy (PCT), that crucial period at the end of the cycle when testosterone-support medications are used. Once again, these programs are often studied micro detail. This, however, tends to be where it ends. In this, I find one thing greatly lacking. Little attention is paid to the time off all drugs. I believe this third and final stage of the steroid administration cycle is also highly critical.

*Introduction to OCT*
The purpose of the Off-Cycle Therapy is simple to maximize the long-term benefits from anabolic/androgenic steroid therapy. No drug products are used during our OCT program; only natural substance. We can view this phase as one part maintenance, and one part recovery. Our ideal OCT program is broken down into three distinct segments. This first focuses on testosterone support. The next, re-sensitizing the muscle cells to training stimulation. And the third, use the natural anabolic substances that help retain muscle. When all three aspects are in check, your muscles should be bigger and much more primed for the next cycle. This should potentially equate to a need for lower total doses, fewer cycles, and shorter durations of use, lofty goals for any harm-reduction strategy.
*Part 1:*
*Testosterone Support*
The testosterone support aspect of our Off-Cycle Therapy program is substantially different than what is used during traditional PCT. We are no longer looking to aid endogenous testosterone production with anti-estrogenic drugs like tamoxifen or clomiphene, nor to use pharmaceuticals that mimic an endogenous luteinizing hormone such as hCG. All pharmaceutical strategies have been concluded at this point, and hopefully have eficited the necessary effects. For OCT, we want to provide our bodies some of the natural components used in the synthesis of testosterone. We want to augment our own natural processes, not artificially shift them.

*Vitamin D/Calcium/Zinc*
The first thing to pay special attention to during OCT is our vitamin and mineral status, particularly those components that are integral to testosterone biosynthesis. To begin with, clinical studies have shown that higher levels of Vitamin D in the blood are associated with increased testosterone output. Calcium is another nutritive components involved in hormone function, especially the level of bioavailable (free) testosterone. Lastly, zinc is also tied to androgen biosynthesis. Any deficiency in these vitamins/minerals will likely translate into suppressed (sub-optimal) testosterone output. Examine your diet closely, and supplement these three as needed.

*D-Aspartic Acid*
DAA is an amino acid that is naturally found in the endocrine system, and is believed to play roles in hormone biosynthesis. Clinical studies demonstrated a 42 percent increase in serum testosterone levels when this amino acid was given to a group of healthy men. The same dose of 3.2 grams/day is recommended (DAA sodium salt).
*Part 2:*
*Cell Re-Sensitization*
Repeated high-intensity exercise, especially resistance training, causes disruption of the muscle cell membranes. This disruption is in many ways desirable, as it is needed to initiate muscle growth and repair. Without damage, we will not have progress. There are some negatives to regular distruption of the muscle cells, however. One of the most fundamental is that the outer membranes of the muscle cells (which consist mainly of the fatty acid compounds called phospholipids) are re-arranged. In particular, the concentration of arachidonic acid (ARA) is lowered, which may have implications for future progress.

*Arachidonic Acid*
Arachidonic Acid supports the local anabolic process. It’s depletion is highly undesirable, and may contribute to training stagnation. Thus, ARA is supplemented during the OCT period at a daily dose of 250 mgs, in an effort to re-sensitize the muscles. This represents 50-100 percent of the normal daily dietary intake of ARA, which should be sufficient for phospholipid replenishment and acceptable for long-term use.

*Fish Oil*
Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), two Omega-3 essential fatty acids found in fish oil, are also important constituents of muscle cell membrane phospholipids. Additionally, studies suggest that Omega-3 essential fatty acids may enhance the membrane storage of arachidonic acid. A daily dose of 2 grams of fish oil is recommended during our Off-Cycle Therapy program.

*Part 3*:
*Anabolic Supplementation*
An optimal Off-Cycle Therapy program should also include natural products with anabolic/anti-catabolic properties. Many AAS users are skeptical of muscle-building supplements, and rightfully so. The market can be very unreliable, with even the best products falling far short of AAS in terms of efficacy and reliability. Still, the field has progressed a great deal over the years, and there are many products of tangible value. And even a partial muscle-sparing effect during the OCT period is highly desirable, as it can significantly alter the baseline muscle level by the start of the next steroid cycle. Supplementation is limited to only those ingredients with proven anabolic effects in humans.

*Creatine Monohydrate*
Creatine augments muscle size and performance through several distinct mechanisims. The two most prominent are cell volumization (water retention) and cell energy enhancement (cellular ATP resynthesis), although the supplement also has direct protein synthetic and anti-catabolic properties. Creatine (as creatine monohydrate) is taken at a dose of 5 grams per day.

*Beta-Alanine*
Beta-Alanine is a non-essential amino acid that serves as a direct precursor for carnosine synthesis, an intramyocellular buffering agent that counters the buildup of hydrogen ions. By serving as the rate-limiting step in the synthesis of muscle carnosine, beta-alanine is a strong stabilizer of muscle pH. A dose of 3-6 grams per day is used, which should allow the individual to perform measurably longer during training.

*Branched-Chain Amino Acids*
The three branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs) leucine, isoleucine, and valine are abundant in skeletal muscle protein. BCAA supplements provide integral build blocks for the synthesis of new muscle protein. BCAAs also appear to directly stimulate muscle cells to synthesize and retain protein, thus they appear to have direct anabolic effects. A dosage of 10 grams per day (post-training) is recommended during the OCT.

*Sample OCT Program (8-12 Weeks)*

*Testosterone Support*
Vitamin D, 3000 IU/Day
Calcium, 500-1000 mgs/Day
Zinc , 30-35 mgs/Day (  ZMA supplement)
D-Aspatic Acid, 3.2 grams/Day

*Muscle Cell Re-sensitization*
Arachidonic Acid, 250 mgs/Day
Fish Oil, 2 grams/Day

*Anabolic Supplementation*
Creatine, 5 grams/Day
Beta-Alanine, 3-6 grams/Day
BCAAs, 10 grams/Day




*Priming for a Cycle*

Frequently, athletes research how to better layout an anabolic-androgenic steroid cycle, as well as proper post cycle therapy for making the transition back to a natural training state. Unfortunately, many neglect another component for a successful AAS cycle: maximizing the time spent on using pre-cycle therapy, better know as “priming.” 
*What is priming?*

Priming is a preparatory method used to create a favorable growth environment so an AAS cycle can maximize muscle gains. The goal of priming is to make an athletes system very sensitive to increased calories, greater training intensity and elevated anabolic hormones. Psychologically, a trainee should feel pent up and ready to move heavy loads.
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Priming should be done before every cycle – no matter the athlete’s previous AAS cycle experience. If completed correctly, priming will lead to very quick and dramatic results. Because of the faster results, cycle duration can also be cut back to make coming off and restoring proper hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis functioning easier, for a faster recovery of the body’s endogenous androgen production. 


*How should you prime?*

Priming involves correct dietary and training manipulations that allow an athlete to lower body fat while sparing muscle. Basically, it is essential to diet down slow enough to simply lose fat – again, no muscle or strength should be lost.
Bodybuilders spend a lot of time preparing to exhibit a lean, muscular build. But other things are going on inside. Their body is getting really sensitive for a period of growth following the long period of dieting and depletion training. Most advanced bodybuilders – especially those that compete – know how responsive the body can be right after leaning up; such as the growth spurts frequently experienced after a competition with or without concurrent AAS administration. This is an example of what occurs by priming before a bulking phase, although pre-contest routines are generally too exhaustive since extremely low body fat levels are required. Simply put: priming opens the window for a great opportunity to obtain phenomenal muscle building results and end training plateaus.
Training cycles must change as goals change. While priming, the training should not be so intense that overtraining is likely; in fact, a general maintenance routine would be best in many circumstances. The training routine should also let the athlete mentally prepare for a split that is very progressive. The amount of aerobic training (as well a total calorie intake) is determined by current lean body mass and what has previously been learned about personal metabolism and limitations. The concurrent aerobic and anaerobic training effect won’t limit results since the goal is not to gain strength or muscle but rather to preserve it.
The diet should allow the body to become sensitive to carbohydrates and the other macronutrients. Generally, a cyclic-ketogenic diet works wonders. This method helps many lose fat while preserving lean body mass while becoming carbohydrate sensitive for superior calorie partitioning once the AAS cycle begins.
It is very catabolic to train with no carbohydrate intake and no scheduled carbohydrate loads; lost muscle is inevitable. Why take two steps back and then two steps forward every time you cycle? Scheduling carbohydrate loads presents an opportunity to fill out energy stores for a productive – and frequently progressive – power workouts, opportunities to fight for strength levels and muscle mass.
Using a CKD approach, carbohydrates remain very low for three or four days – maximum – followed by a “carb up,” a period where carbohydrate intake is substantial. Remember, glycogen levels must become grossly depleted during the weekly rotation to ensure the proper response from a carbohydrate load. Be careful of total calorie intake – results gained by obtaining low carbohydrate can be diverted if total calorie intake is too high; this can negatively affect the depletion phase.
After successfully depleting glycogen levels, a subsequent carb up can not only replenish glycogen depots but super compensate them. Stick to high-protein and high-carbohydrate food sources during the carbohydrate load. Total calorie intake during this period can be very high – some can eat well over 6,000 calories and still burn fat! Any high-fat cravings should be curbed within the first several hours of the carbohydrate load. Studies show fat gain during this time is very low since the body is more interested in replenishing itself than it is in storing fat. As you advance through the carbohydrate load, high fat foods are more likely to be stored as fat.
Regardless, carbohydrate loading will cause dramatic increases in bodyweight, though this is not suggestive of regaining fat. Weight fluctuations vary based on the athletes lean body mass. It is common for many to re-gain six to 10 pounds after a carbohydrate load due; much of this is due to the concurrent water uptake required to store the excess supply of glycogen. During the depletion week, it is common for many to lose seven to 12 pounds – roughly netting one or two pounds of fat loss per week with the rest of the weight composed mostly of dropped water.
The carbohydrate load also provides a key opportunity to train heavy and possibly make some gains in limit strength. A succeeding power training day is a great opportunity to accurately gauge muscle wasting or drops in limit strength. An abbreviated full body workout can be used with great success. All of the lifts should stay strong or possibly get stronger – use a workout journal!
The last four or five days before the cycle starts should be low carbohydrate. The steroid cycle should commence on the same day as a carbohydrate load. Testosterone and most of its popular derivatives will make this carbohydrate load very effective. Glycogen super compensation can occur very quickly, especially if short-ester (suspension, acetate, propionate) steroids are used; otherwise, front load longer esters (enanthate, cypionate, decanoate) to get blood levels up quickly. 

Here is an example split for successful priming (based on _Ultimate Diet 2.0_ by Lyle McDonald, which is considered an up-to-date version of _Underground Bodyopus_ by Daniel Duchaine): 
*Day 1:* Moderate Carb/Cardio at maintenance calorie intake.
*Day 2:* Low Carb/Upperbody Supersets at a caloric deficit, either through diet or cardio.
*Day 3:* Low Carb/Lowerbody Supersets at a caloric deficit, either through diet or cardio.
*Day 4:* Low Carb/Cardio at a caloric deficit, either through diet or cardio.
*Day 5:* Low Carb/Full Body Workout with daytime calorie intake should be slightly less than they were during the previous days. The carbohydrate load should follow immediately after evening training.
*Day 6:* Carb Load/No training
*Day 7:* Moderate Carb/Power Training (Squats, Deadlifts and Bench Presses), eating slightly above maintenance.
*Repeat*
Once the cycle has begun, your body will remain very responsive and you should begin training hard; using supersets, drop sets, rest-pause – heavy and intense training. You should feel pent up and ready for it. As always, a training log will help maximize the growth window.
*How long should the priming period last?*

Proper priming generally last about six to eight weeks, pre-cycle. The body will be very responsive if finished correctly and long enough. Obviously, finding the best ratio between priming, cutting and growth macro cycles can guarantee the greatest results during the training year. This relation is best identified through experience.
Successful priming will bring your body fat levels down but the most important aspect is to become sensitive for a growth period. If body fat is high, an athlete could extend the priming period with a target body composition in mind before switching to a growth phase but don’t allow gross overtraining to occur. If body fat mass is currently out of control, it is better to focus on dieting and training strictly for fat loss. A lean body is much more effective at proper calorie partitioning. Once bodyfat levels are within reason, take a brief pause, and then begin priming for the AAS cycle.
*Are any ancillary drugs helpful for priming?*

Proviron and Bromocriptine can be very helpful for sustaining muscle mass and fat metabolism. Proviron helps to support natural testosterone levels during a calorie restricted diet. Bromocriptine helps support suitable hormone levels while training to metabolize body fat; in addition to dulling hunger pangs. Either drug can help trick your body from trying to put a stopper on fat loss and limit muscle wasting. Unfortunately, Bromocriptine is notorious for bad side effects, such as decreased appetite and nausea. This drug should be tapered up and only administered in the mornings, to avoid uncomfortable side effects. Exogenous insulin can help carbohydrate loads – especially brief loads under 24 hours – by increasing faster glycogen storage.( Warning-Proviron can cause some shutdown to HPTA)
*Are any non-pharmaceutical ancillaries helpful for priming?*

A multi vitamin and mineral supplement is always good practice while on a macro-restrictive diet, to fill holes in daily nutritional requirements. Extra Vitamin C can also help deter flu symptoms and keep you from falling ill during an important training cycle. A daily dose of around four to eight grams of vitamin C per day will serve to support a healthy immune system during any training cycle. Obviously, getting sick can mess everything up.
Taking a healthy dose of the essential branched chain amino acids helps to deter overtraining and over-reaching symptoms. They also help prevent muscle wasting during dieting to foster a better environment to remain on a progressive strength routine. Studies show that it’s harder to overtrain while taking at least 10 grams of the essential BCAA’s daily. Ten grams pre-workout can have a substantially positive effect on strength and mental focus while using a CKD program.
When you stay low-carbohydrate your body starts to produce less of the digestive enzymes responsible for carbohydrate metabolism. This can cause bad gastrointestinal problems when carbohydrate loading. In particular, a low carbohydrate phase results in less production of the enzyme Amylase. To combat this, you could supplement with digestive enzymes to aid proper digestion.
Charles Poliquin, a famous strength coach, has been quoted supporting the idea of post-workout high-dose glutamine. He suggests this in place of sugar for those needing to drop some body fat. The idea of mega dosing glutamine is debatable but many have used 30 to 40 grams of post-workout glutamine with great success 
Caffeine and other thermogenics are an absolute help when training during low carbohydrate intake. They support energy levels and depress appetite. During carbohydrate loading, they help with the lethargic feeling easily acquired from a dramatic increase in starches and sugars. Alternatively, the carbohydrate loading phase can be used as a break from caffeine-containing supplements and drinks.
Taking the time to properly prepare for a steroid cycle can make the experience more rewarding. A properly primed system is more responsive to growth, allowing for a lower dose or shorter duration. Appropriate post-cycle therapy helps retain gains – proper pre-cycle preparation helps attain them.







This is an example of a primed bulking cycle. Starting bodyweight was 228 pounds. After seven weeks of priming, a slender 220 was revealed. Finally, after four weeks of testosterone administration, a stronger and more muscular 250 pounds were obtained with a peak weight of 254 within those four weeks – 34 pounds gained in less than a month.



If anyone else has any articles on these subjects feel free to post them here. So we can get all of them into one place. ​


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## D-Lats (Mar 11, 2011)

Wow man nicely put together article I think it should be a sticky. This is something I would like to follow after my current cycle. I'd like to see some journals on OCT and priming. Great thread bro.


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## cutright (Mar 11, 2011)

Thanks!!!


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## Vibrant (Mar 11, 2011)

Hey tgb, did you use the same article for priming that I posted few days back? Cause it sure looks that way. Lol, I don't think you should have included the pic because imo the dude in the pic looks better at 220 than at 250...


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## TGB1987 (Mar 11, 2011)

Vibrant said:


> Hey tgb, did you use the same article for priming that I posted few days back? Cause it sure looks that way. Lol, I don't think you should have included the pic because imo the dude in the pic looks better at 220 than at 250...


 
I don't think it is the same article but that is what got my started on the idea.  I got the Priming cycle from WarriorFx.com


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## Vibrant (Mar 11, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> I don't think it is the same article but that is what got my started on the idea.  I got the Priming cycle from WarriorFx.com



Lol, that's exactly where I got my article.


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## TGB1987 (Mar 11, 2011)

Yes it is the same article about priming. I just looked up your thread.  You just didn't use the whole thing.   LOL  I didn't know where you got it from.


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## TGB1987 (Mar 11, 2011)

D-Latsky said:


> Wow man nicely put together article I think it should be a sticky. This is something I would like to follow after my current cycle. I'd like to see some journals on OCT and priming. Great thread bro.


 
I will try to start a journal on it soon.  Glad you found this useful


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## TGB1987 (Mar 11, 2011)

I think I am going to make this a sticky once everyone looks at it on here.  That way it can be refered to for those who may want to try it out in the future.  Maybe we could get a couple guys to try it out and keep a log of how it goes.


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## persianprince23 (Mar 11, 2011)

bro this is awesome read ,really informative on the importance of having proper trainign and nutrition PRIOR to using AAS


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## TGB1987 (Mar 11, 2011)

Thanks thats what I was going for.  I really wanted to stress that because so many people neglect it.  Thanks for reading it I know it is long.  The priming article is about the only article I could find on priming.  It really does help with getting the most out of your cycle.


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## D-Lats (Mar 11, 2011)

This is the type of info I wish I had 10 years ago I wouldn't have wasted so much time and effort. I'd probably be 50lbs heavier and a Seasoned competitor as apposed to still grinding away trying to gain the size and symmetry I need to do that first show.


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## Diesel618 (Mar 11, 2011)

That Zinc dose seems high. I've read that OCT article before, I think it was in a magazine I had, but I didn't realize it called for 350 mg's. I take 50 mg's PM every night on cycle and off and I always thought that was more than enough. Jeez looks like I'm gonna have to start popping 7 pills a day when my cycle's over.


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## TGB1987 (Mar 11, 2011)

Haha.  I wondered about that too.  I am going to check into that maybe it is a misprint.  I saw an article like this one in william Llewellyn's 10th edition anabolics book.  This one was a little differnt though.  Not to much information out there on this idea as a whole.


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## World-Pharma.org (Mar 12, 2011)

Great post,thanks


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## TGB1987 (Mar 12, 2011)

Diesel618 said:


> That Zinc dose seems high. I've read that OCT article before, I think it was in a magazine I had, but I didn't realize it called for 350 mg's. I take 50 mg's PM every night on cycle and off and I always thought that was more than enough. Jeez looks like I'm gonna have to start popping 7 pills a day when my cycle's over.


 

I checked into the zinc issue.  It was high.  I am not sure why they recommended some much.  But too much zinc can cause heavy metal poisoning, also can prevent the absorbtion of copper,  and could even weaken the immune system.  Toxicity can begin at 40mg but normally doesn't really cause problems until 450mgs.  I lowered the dose to 30-35mgs as part of a ZMA supplement.  Magnesium is very important for muscle contrations, including the heart muscle.  Magnesium is also plays an important part in the sleep cycle.  So I hope thiis should fix that problem.  If anyone else notices anything else that seems off let me know so I can check it out.


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## TGB1987 (Mar 12, 2011)

anybody else have anything to add to this?


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## alan84 (Mar 12, 2011)

Should be a sticky


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## TJTJ (Mar 12, 2011)




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## XYZ (Mar 14, 2011)

Nice work.


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## toothache (Mar 14, 2011)

great..........


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## heavyiron (Mar 14, 2011)

Warrior had some great ideas and we discussed them a lot years ago. He was basically one of my mentors. I learned a ton from the guy. Priming is controversial and definately is just one of many ways to get ready for aas use.

4 ??? Priming - WarriorFX

Another guy I know actually wrote some interesting ideas on priming years ago and may be one of the guys Warrior got his ideas from. Marcus300 wrote the following.

Priming opens the growth window and creates a very anabolic environment for muscle tissue to grow at a very fast rate, i can not express enough how important this process is at building muscle tissue, this will enhance any cycle and hugh gains can be produce and maintained by this simple process of priming (carb cycling), just note when priming dont be hard on the body dont try and force the environment, a slow steady carb cycling is needed so the body doesn't react in starvation mode is what works best, 3-5 days low carb to 1 day high carbs is a general rule but daily adjustments are needed depending on the individual.

When the priming is done your body is ready to direct everything into the muscle cells, because of the process the muscle cells are very excitable and everything is directed into them instead of fat cells, so if you incorporate the priming so it ends when a cycle starts and the intense training and bulking diet begins everything is directed into growth of muscle tissue and the growth spurt starts, in nature growth occurs in spurts and we are no different babies and teenagers all grow in spurts we cant carry on growing for a long period of time our bodies just dont work like that no matter what we put into them, so take advantage of the window and start a cycle when priming ends, because of the spurt only last for a few wks a short cycle fits nicely into this process but longer cycle can be used it depends on the individual and how good he responds to AAS, i normally only grow for the first half of cycles so short cycling works great for me.

The cycle needs to be designed around some form of cycle history and use what works best for you, looking over the cycle history will tell you which compounds work and which ones your body responds well to with little sides, design a cycle with this in mind, GH is of great benefit, it should be run at a low dose during priming and when the cycle starts and the intense training the dose of GH should be high for that individual, all these growth factors all work together in producing new muscle tissue gains, ive done my own personal studies with GH and priming and different ways of cycling and the GH is of great benefit in pushing new boundaries of growth while the growth spurt is open,

GH is a wonderful and remarkable hormone, its basically a lipolytic it burns fat while supporting the immune system and prevents bone loss and supports the retention of lean body mass, it other words in time it makes you big and ripped and transforms your physic,when you start GH therapy it causes a shift in the metabolism where the body tries to burn alot more fatty acids than glucose, this benefit is sometimes mild but over time strips the fat away from the muscle, now for the other effect GH as on the body it increases amino acid uptake by muscles and can build lean muscle tissue, so what happens especially if your a bodybuilder and training and eating like one is you start to increase in lean body mass even more so if AAS are implement aswell so an increase in LBM which in turn changes the rate of body fat is burnt due to the LBM increasing, so in time major changes in the bodys compostion are notice even with no alteration on the diet, so just think if the right cycle and diet was done with GH the body changes put all this with the priming and designed cycle and you have everything you need to achieve your goals 

Now the dose what is need to transform the body is something ive discovered over the yrs, this is were i went wrong for years using to little of amount of GH,all i use to recieve was fat loss and slight condition, A former Mr O's camp at the time said i was doing it all wrong and they showed me and made me understand what i needed to do to change my body totally, nowadays ive found what works 100% for me, its a good solid prime and create the anabolic window for muscle then i start a short cycle weather heavy/light or modertae put this together with a very intense training program and diet and incorporate GH at a muscle building dose and the body changes very quickly, 

Sides with GH are bad if your a sufferer, carpel tunnel syndrome is murder but at least you know the GH you are taking is real, what i found is to run a maintenance dose of gh during the prime and slowly build the dose up and when you stop the prime and start the cycle and hit the food,training and AAS increase the GH its not as bad if you run it for a few wks before and steadily up the dose for the start of cycle, ​


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## TGB1987 (Mar 14, 2011)

Thanks for adding to this heavy.  This was a great read.  Priming is something I believe can make all the difference in a cycle.  It gets the body prepared.  I got the article above from WarriorFX like you said, from what I have read he has some great ideas.  I am glad to  hear he was an inspiration to you as well.  That makes me think I am on the right track.


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## heavyiron (Mar 14, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> Thanks for adding to this heavy. This was a great read. Priming is something I believe can make all the difference in a cycle. It gets the body prepared. I got the article above from WarriorFX like you said, from what I have read he has some great ideas. I am glad to hear he was an inspiration to you as well. That makes me think I am on the right track.


 Yeah, it's basically a rebound cycle concept. When guys diet hard for a show they get depleted and if they hit the aas and food hard after the competition they can grow a lot but the truth is you can grow very well without a prime as well.


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## SloppyJ (Mar 14, 2011)

Good read. Thanks man.


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## TGB1987 (Mar 14, 2011)

Yeah that is true heavy. I know I never had a problem without the priming.  I think it is just another technique that can be added to the arsenal.  It is kind of like training there are so many different ways to train.  I think it is good to experiment with many different styles of training and diet to see what works best.  Also changing up what your body is used to can shock your body into growth.  Heavy what are some other concepts that you liked from warriorFX?  His website has a lot of information on it.


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## heavyiron (Mar 14, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> Yeah that is true heavy. I know I never had a problem without the priming. I think it is just another technique that can be added to the arsenal. It is kind of like training there are so many different ways to train. I think it is good to experiment with many different styles of training and diet to see what works best. Also changing up what your body is used to can shock your body into growth. Heavy what are some other concepts that you liked from warriorFX? His website has a lot of information on it.


 Warrior was a friend of mine at MD. He wrote extensively over there. His warriorfx site is mostly just articles. At MD he posted tons of stuff. He advocated frontloading aas as an example. His PCT protocol included nolva and clomid but ironically he did not recover properly when using his own protocol. He was never a competitive bodybuilder either however he had a great understanding of science. Very cool guy that just disappeared one day from the boards.


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## TGB1987 (Mar 14, 2011)

Wow I wonder what happened to him? I remember seeing him on MD now that you mentioned it.  The PCT you described from him with nolva in it kind of tells me he had a lot of great advice but not all of it worked as well as it was supposed to.


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## theCaptn' (Mar 15, 2011)

priming always works well for me. Good thread. Def a sticky.


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## GH Consigliere (Mar 16, 2011)

I like that statement ironmag should give you a award winning sticky


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## TJTJ (Mar 16, 2011)

Priming is the best way to go. Everyone wants a magic bean but If you don't already have the discipline and proper knowledge how to attack a workout and your body you won't see any gains if not just bloating and greater fat%. Of course I'm leaving out the genetically gifted but it doesn't excuse poor preparation. Get your facts right and do your homework before doing *ANYTHING *in life and you wont have to deal with any "Uh-oh" moments. 

Good looking out *TGB1987* *

^*5


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## TGB1987 (Mar 16, 2011)

TJTJ said:


> Priming is the best way to go. Everyone wants a magic bean but If you don't already have the discipline and proper knowledge how to attack a workout and your body you won't see any gains if not just bloating and greater fat%. Of course I'm leaving out the genetically gifted but it doesn't excuse poor preparation. Get your facts right and do your homework before doing *ANYTHING *in life and you wont have to deal with any "Uh-oh" moments.
> 
> Good looking out *TGB1987*
> 
> *^*5


 No problem when you do your first cycle try priming out it will help get you where you need to be.


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## djm6464 (Mar 17, 2011)

^^^^agreed,great post,and the times of done this vs the times i havent the quality was evident, more people should follow this


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## Realtalk (Mar 24, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> anybody else have anything to add to this?


 have always used iodine (Lugol's) for thyroid support & is also great for estrogen metabolism (4 drops of full strength per day on & 2 drops off cycle).


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## Realtalk (Mar 24, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> I checked into the zinc issue. It was high. I am not sure why they recommended some much. But too much zinc can cause heavy metal poisoning, also can prevent the absorbtion of copper, and could even weaken the immune system. Toxicity can begin at 40mg but normally doesn't really cause problems until 450mgs. I lowered the dose to 30-35mgs as part of a ZMA supplement. Magnesium is very important for muscle contrations, including the heart muscle. Magnesium is also plays an important part in the sleep cycle. So I hope thiis should fix that problem. If anyone else notices anything else that seems off let me know so I can check it out.


Intakes of 150 to 450 mg of zinc per day have been associated with low copper status, altered iron function, reduced immune function, and reduced levels of high-density lipoproteins (the good cholesterol), so be sure to keep your zinc intake below these levels.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Copper and zinc levels are very closely interrelated. If an excess of one is found in the diet, the other will likely be deficient. Luckily, most foods that are high in copper are also high in zinc, but those taking high dose zinc supplements may experience problems if they do not also supplement copper (not to be done at the same time of day)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Copper is required for the proper function of vitamin C and also for iron absorption, so lack of copper may cause iron deficiencies. Conversely, high doses of Vitamin C, due to the amount of copper it requires to be effective, may lead to copper depletion.[/FONT]


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## TGB1987 (Mar 24, 2011)

That is why I lowered the dose from what the original article had stated^.


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## betterthisbod (Mar 24, 2011)

Any sample diets anyone can provide for PRIMING?


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## Realtalk (Mar 25, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> That is why I lowered the dose from what the original article had stated^.


Yes - I saw that. Thanks.

I just thought it was worth mentioning for those who did not know the relationship zinc had with copper when supplementing.


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## Realtalk (Mar 25, 2011)

Who here supplements with vitamin E when/prior to hCG use?

Is it worth it & what forms/brands of vitamin E are most bioavailable?


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## TGB1987 (Mar 25, 2011)

Realtalk said:


> Yes - I saw that. Thanks.
> 
> I just thought it was worth mentioning for those who did not know the relationship zinc had with copper when supplementing.


 
Yes it is nice when everyone can understand the reasoning.  Good post.


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## WantsWidth (Mar 27, 2011)

great info guys thanks


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## nyf1nest (Mar 27, 2011)

Thanks for posting this good read


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## Bigb21084 (Mar 29, 2011)

Very informational, thanks!


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## Freeway (Apr 21, 2011)

Great read. Great info.


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## 6th Gear (Jun 21, 2011)

im glad i read this article because i was about to start a cycle in a month yet ive been bulking up all this month prior to the start of my cycle. glad i have a month now to get my bodyfat percentage lower. thanks for the info.


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## DOBE (Aug 13, 2011)

Nice read,thanks for the info


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## nugget13 (Aug 14, 2011)

great read


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## Mike225 (Aug 21, 2011)

Wow!


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## wilgates (Aug 21, 2011)

that's the way I was taught and it works really well for me cool and informative nice


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## IronWrestler (Aug 24, 2011)

Always prime before a cycle. 

Having cycled and tested alot of methods, there is no results like what can be achieved with priming. I spend 8 weeks dieting and then 1 week keto, then I hit a 4 week blast and high calories along with HIT training, followed by a very very low dose to continue dieting/maintenance for another 9 weeks.


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## JimmyPaige (Aug 30, 2011)

Great advice, already bookmarked the page and jotted down some notes


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## the_warchief (Sep 23, 2011)

Wow, what a great article. It is good to see the other side of testosterone support. Very helpful and well put together!


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## TJTJ (Nov 22, 2011)

bump


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## J.thom (Nov 23, 2011)

Awesome post!


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## einherjar (Dec 13, 2011)

tgb.. thats just what i was looking for. Im a beginner soaking it all up right now and i got alot out of what you wrote.  Ill be much more ready a month from now than i was going to be.  thanks!


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## lift2grow (Dec 14, 2011)

awesome! I have always known about HCG but have never seen a detailed post like this.  I will def. start including extra Vita D to increase free test and also DAA.  Thanks for the info.


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## TGB1987 (Dec 14, 2011)

I like to have a DAA supplement(Purus D-Pol or Betancourt Nutrition Adaptodren are two of my favorites) along with a full Test booster like IronMagLabs Anabolic Matrix and a good solid Multi geared toward Testosterone Production Axis Labs Endo Shield comes to mind.  PM me if you have any questions.


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## gm09 (Jan 8, 2012)

TGB1987 said:


> I checked into the zinc issue.  It was high.  I am not sure why they recommended some much.  But too much zinc can cause heavy metal poisoning, also can prevent the absorbtion of copper,  and could even weaken the immune system.  Toxicity can begin at 40mg but normally doesn't really cause problems until 450mgs.  I lowered the dose to 30-35mgs as part of a ZMA supplement.  Magnesium is very important for muscle contrations, including the heart muscle.  Magnesium is also plays an important part in the sleep cycle.  So I hope thiis should fix that problem.  If anyone else notices anything else that seems off let me know so I can check it out.



i always liked ZMA supps but the problem is that most of us are having some kind of casein based protein shake before bed and calcium screws with the absorption of ZMA. so timing becomes an issue


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## joebig (Jan 17, 2012)

I think DAA works great during pct.


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## THEWIZARDOFKOZ (Feb 23, 2012)

great info


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## Acesopro (Mar 7, 2012)

Subbed. Just started my cycle today, doh. Wish I read this weeks ago.


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## robono (Jan 23, 2013)

niiiiiccce!!! Thnx!


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## Arcticman (Oct 31, 2013)

Yeah, can't be lazy and expect magic. Got to get your ducks in a row for max gain!


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## Tommygunzthomas (Dec 7, 2013)

great read


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## gettinripped (Jan 17, 2014)

awesome read! thanks TGB for the info!


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## droski (Jan 17, 2014)

Dropping off knowledge.

Go Hard Or Go Home


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## bigsparky (Jan 20, 2014)

nice info here!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EL VASCULO (Jan 29, 2014)

Diesel618 said:


> That Zinc dose seems high. I've read that OCT article before, I think it was in a magazine I had, but I didn't realize it called for 350 mg's. I take 50 mg's PM every night on cycle and off and I always thought that was more than enough. Jeez looks like I'm gonna have to start popping 7 pills a day when my cycle's over.



I once read an old book (1970's I think) on natural bodybuilding and I took 6 times the amount recommended on the supplement bottle per day of zinc sulphate according to this book and went mildly anemic (purple marks under me eyes/ fatigued etc) lol!


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## EL VASCULO (Jan 29, 2014)

Top info though, def gonna use this info! Cheers.


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## imadoctor (Apr 2, 2014)

A few things ive read.. (not saying they are true or false) but maybe someone can clarify if it helps or is bullshite?

Cant remember the source but they started taking serms 4 weeks prior to starting their aas cycle helps keep on top of any sorts of gyno/ water retention estrogen  and gets their natural test levels up so when the time comes to inject your test levels should go through the roof? 

Nettle Root: noone mentioned this to help lower your sbgh? 

L carnatine: was told if your body is lacking in this doesn't matter how much cardio and dieting you do your body wont burn your fat cells?


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## Cheves08 (Sep 2, 2014)

This is great information and I remember reading this on my cell phone in one of my health care courses haha Since I'm finding it again I suppose its time to give it a try. Will be floowing along closely to the example setting listed. We'll see how it goes for this upcoming bulk.


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## Conceal30 (Dec 10, 2014)

awesome post, thank you.


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