# ? Female bodyfat ?



## jaim91 (Mar 14, 2004)

I just got my bodyfat percentage analyzed for the first time yesterday. It said I had 11.3% and 12 pounds of fat on me. I would like to know (since I am relatively new to bodybuilding) what the norm is for a 16 year old female wannabe bodybuilder. Any help/ website you can offer would be awesome, thanks!


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## Akateros (Mar 14, 2004)

_If_ your cycles are normal, then what you have is fine for the off-season. If you have any kind of menstrual problems, then you will want to go a little higher.

For competition, natural women generally aim for around 6-8%. However, I don't believe there are any women who can sustain this for more than brief periods without effects, possibly permanent ones, on hormone function, fertility and bone density.


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## atherjen (Mar 14, 2004)

I completly agree with Akateros. Its best to make sure that your mentrual cycles are normal
. at very low bodyfats, sometimes woman experience an absense of them. However some people just normally have lower bf%. myself, I maintain at 14% or somewhat less(my setpoint). others are higher. For someone at your age, just dont be concerned on getting to extremly low bodyfats. did you diet down to that level? or is that where you are normally with no effort of dieting? 

ALSO one thing I wanted to say... I admire your inspiration at your age being involved in bodybuilding. I too began young(15, Im 19 now). Weight training was one of the best things that happened to me. I wish you the best of luck with your goals.


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## myCATpowerlifts (Mar 14, 2004)

wow! thats low bf% for a girl...if you are naturally like that
if you dieted down then thats still good

btw im a 16 year old guy, so ya know... 
lol just kidding


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## Vieope (Mar 14, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by myCATpowerlifts *_
> wow! thats low bf% for a girl...



_ True _


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## Jodi (Mar 14, 2004)

Too low for a newbie and a non competitor.


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## aggies1ut (Mar 14, 2004)

16 years old and female too...that's an amazingly low bf%.


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## HoldDaMayo (Mar 14, 2004)

that is very low... how about some other stats?  like Height, weight, etc...


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## jaim91 (Mar 15, 2004)

I wouldn't say I'm a total NEWBIE. I have been reading bodybuilding magazines since I was 13, and have been working our religiously for the past 3 years as well with a personal trainer. I don't know whether that % is natural because this is the first time I've had it checked. I really want to compete, but it's so hard trying to find a junior female bodybuilding/ figure competition (I CAN'T DO FITNESS FOR MY LIFE).  I am 5"7.5 and 115 lbs.


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## Vieope (Mar 15, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by jaim91 *_
> I wouldn't say I'm a total NEWBIE.



_ Exactly _


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## aggies1ut (Mar 15, 2004)

Wow, 5"7.5 and 115. That's low too.


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## BabsieGirl (Mar 15, 2004)

If you want to compete.  You better stack some muscle on


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## CanaDan (Mar 15, 2004)

If you are serious about competing at some point you can check out www.wnso.com. There is quite a bit of information on the site and links for Canadian competitions. I didn't see any age restrictions either but you can at least contact them. You could also track down some competitors and contact them through their own websites. Generally speaking they are usually pretty helpful to beginners.


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## Jodi (Mar 15, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> If you want to compete.  You better stack some muscle on


I agree.  You have plenty of time though.  At the age of 16 you have plenty of years to build a great physique


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## jaim91 (Mar 16, 2004)

However, there is a competition that's starting April 17th in Connecicut. I think it's being put on by the NPC. So, really, I have until April 16th. I was told though that 6-9 % BF is good. At 11%, aren't I ok to maintain? I eat according to the meal plans I find on here. Never taking in less than 115 g of protein per day. Working out 3-4 times per week (no cardio - don't have a lot of fait to burn anyway). I don't think I've plateaued...but I don't know what else to blame it on.


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## Akateros (Mar 16, 2004)

At sixteen years old, it is more important for you to build bone density than to be a competitive bodybuilder. It is probably not a good idea to drop to non-functional bodyfat levels even for the length of time it takes to compete, at your age.

From now until -- maybe -- your early twenties is the only chance you have to build substantial amounts of bone mass. Don't be concerned about competitive bodyfat levels right now. The question is, do you have normal, regular menstrual cycles? That cycle is essential to bone health in a woman. Do you really want to be squatting heavy some fine day ten years from now, and get a compression fracture of the spine?

And I agree, at your weight and height, you are underweight. You could stand to eat more and put on more mass if you want to compete. You'd be astounded at how little of you there'd be if you dieted down!

Forget about your bodyfat for a year or three. Eat hearty, lift heavy, build bone and muscle.


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## myCATpowerlifts (Mar 16, 2004)

guys 115 isnt under weight...its light yes but def not underweight

i know a lot of girls age 16 that are about that or a little more
but they most likely have more near 18% bf so

she is good in my opinion
but yea i would wait for competitions tho


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## Jodi (Mar 16, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by myCATpowerlifts *_
> guys 115 isnt under weight...its light yes but def not underweight
> 
> i know a lot of girls age 16 that are about that or a little more
> ...


Are you insane?  5'7" at 115 is definately underweight.  

Damn - that's the BW I competed at and I'm 5'1"


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## JLB001 (Mar 16, 2004)

carp...my lbm is 113 and I'm 5'2.  She's underweight.  Needs to add more muscle before doing a show in April.  She would look like an extremely skinny person up there.


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## BabsieGirl (Mar 16, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by jaim91 *_
> However, there is a competition that's starting April 17th in Connecicut. I think it's being put on by the NPC. So, really, I have until April 16th. I was told though that 6-9 % BF is good. At 11%, aren't I ok to maintain? I eat according to the meal plans I find on here. Never taking in less than 115 g of protein per day. Working out 3-4 times per week (no cardio - don't have a lot of fait to burn anyway). I don't think I've plateaued...but I don't know what else to blame it on.




I'll go ahead and be honest................YOU WILL BE OUT OF YOUR MIND TO COMPETE THIS APRIL IN NPC!!!!!!!  if you want to hit the NPC, you better be training for for a LONG time hon.  You need to honestly hit those weights and hit them good.  I'm about your height and I looked almost dead at 135lbs.  You'd be like a walking stick compared to the rest of the girls.  I hope you're not thinking you can just slap on some bathing suit either and hit the stage.  Figure/Fitness isn't a runway competition hon.

I'm not trying to hurt your feelings or tick you off....I'm trying to help you decide THIS ISN'T THE COMP FOR YOU!!!!  If you compete in the NPC, you might as well talk to each promotor and ask if it's pure novice because if it's not novice, you're going to be barking up the wrong tree.....The girls will be nice to you no doubt, but you'll feel (inside) that you've waisted your money and you should've waited.

Do you have a PT?  How are you hitting the weights?  Whats your max weight? How does your diet look?  How do you "know" you're ready to compete in April?  Do you have your suit made yet? Do you have your tanning stuff, suit glue, shoes, etcc????  Most importantly, do you know how to pose?


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## aggies1ut (Mar 16, 2004)

Do you have normal cycles? At that weight and bf %, unless you are genetically an ectomorph, it's hard to think that your cycles are normal.


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## nikegurl (Mar 16, 2004)

I competed in NPC in CT and at 5' 9" I came in weighing 132 and I looked very skinny - too skinny.  I wasn't too lean but on my frame I needed plenty more muscle.  

It's great that you're lean now but if I were you I'd definitely focus on clean healthy eating and basic exercises (for instance when training chest focus mainly on pressing moves not cable crossovers etc) in order to build more muscle.

Don't be discouraged by any means.  The fact that you're already in the gym at your age gives you a great head start .  Many many successful women competitiors never touched a weight until they were quite a bit older than you.

If you can be patient and focus on building a solid foundation it will serve you well when you are ready to step on stage.  You'll get there!


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## myCATpowerlifts (Mar 16, 2004)

lol maybe your right...
but i know a lot of girls that look good at the w8

but who knows.


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## JLB001 (Mar 16, 2004)

They look good at that height and weight as model's on a runway, not in a figure/fitness comp.


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## Vieope (Mar 16, 2004)

_ My bed doesn´t have the rules of a figure/fitness comp. _


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## atherjen (Mar 16, 2004)

I totally agree. Jaim you should be more concerned with eating healthy balanaced diet and letting your body grow now without making complications that could arise later in life. you have sooo much time! take advantage of the oppurtunity of adding muscle mass now in your teens while you are still growing.


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## DrChiro (Mar 16, 2004)

just losing BF is not all it takes to compete...you lose the fat to show the muscle underneath...it doesnt matter if you get to 6% if you have nothing to show when you get there (hope that didnt sound harsh)

i think you should pack on some muscle...at least for a year....lift heavy and eat alot of CLEAN calories....then diet down. NPC is tough...most of the girls are on stuff and the ones who arent have been at it for years to get where they are.....you are on the right track and I dont want to discourage you at all...at your age, starting so young you will be great just put in the work now...and show it off later.

Keep your BF high enough to keep a normal mestrual cycle...that is different for everyone...usually it is at least 10%, for most it is around 14%


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## BabsieGirl (Mar 16, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by DrChiro *_
> *NPC is tough...most of the girls are on stuff and the ones who arent have been at it for years to get where they are*.....you are on the right track and I dont want to discourage you at all...at your age, starting so young you will be great just put in the work now...and show it off later.
> 
> Keep your BF high enough to keep a normal mestrual cycle...that is different for everyone...usually it is at least 10%, for most it is around 14%




Exactly!!


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## jaim91 (Mar 17, 2004)

Wow....if I had two words to describe this, it would be "reality check": "Do you have a PT? How are you hitting the weights? Whats your max weight? How does your diet look? How do you "know" you're ready to compete in April? Do you have your suit made yet? Do you have your tanning stuff, suit glue, shoes, etcc???? Most importantly, do you know how to pose?"

Holy %*&%....wow...uh...no....to almost all of the above. 

I wouldn't compete with other woman as I am only 16, so I wouldn't be in the same class with them anyway. I would have to do a teen figure show, as I stated before, I can't dance and therefore fitness it out of the question. I don't remember what it's called, I know there's a medical term for it, but I remember reading in a Musclemag article that there are people who see themselves as more muscular than they actually are. I think I fit that category. If you want a one day sample of my diet/ training, I would be happy to post it/ send it.

I have to thank all of you for being real with me and saving me from total and utter embarrassment, I didn't realize what I would be going up against....


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## atherjen (Mar 17, 2004)

girl we are only looking out for you best interest and health  I am so glad that it was a sort of eye opener for you! 
defintly post up your current training split/routine and daily diet and we can surely help out


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## DrChiro (Mar 17, 2004)

i believe you are talking about body dismorphic disorder (every damn thing has a name these days)

basically it means you see yourself differently from eveybody else, some see themselves as always too small, some as bigger than they really are.

one of the biggest eye openers you can do is take some pictures and look at them critically..also have some other people look at them (or post them)....then compare them to pics of girls you would be competing against.

the teen divisions are usually small...sometimes only 1 or 2 competitors...and while it does take guts to get on stage and it would be a big accomplishment in its own right, I would say wait a bit, pack on some muscle, then show em what ya got!


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## nikegurl (Mar 17, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by DrChiro *_
> .. I would say wait a bit, pack on some muscle, then show em what ya got!



I totally agree.  But seriously, don't get discouraged and don't give up.  I wish I had started training at your age!  You have a definite head start over a lot of the woman you may one day compete against. 

We're here to help if you need us.


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## DrChiro (Mar 17, 2004)

yeah...good point nikegurl..looking back at the posts I really hope you dont take anything we said as negative....you are gonna kick some ass one day since you are starting so young....just stay focused and determined!


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## BabsieGirl (Mar 17, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by atherjen *_
> girl we are only looking out for you best interest and health  I am so glad that it was a sort of eye opener for you!
> defintly post up your current training split/routine and daily diet and we can surely help out


Exactly


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## JLB001 (Mar 17, 2004)

Doesn't matter what your age is in the NPC.  Only time they make a difference is in Master's which is over 35.  You might want to see if some of the Natural shows have a teen figure.  I hae seen it somewhere before but can not recall where.


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## BabsieGirl (Mar 17, 2004)

This too


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## jaim91 (Mar 18, 2004)

Really, there will be people critiquing it and looking at it ?


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## Akateros (Mar 18, 2004)

Absolutely. Check all the other threads with titles like "need input on diet and workouts?" and "help me with my cut". More advice than you can shake a five-pound DB at! Lay it out.

Oh, and be as specific as you can. Break it out into meals, what you eat, how much, the nutrient breakdown if you know it, what time and what time your workout(s) are.


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## BabsieGirl (Mar 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by jaim91 *_
> Really, there will be people critiquing it and looking at it ?




WTH do you think you're on stage for?  Of course they look and critique 

Sister, you need to do your home work.  Pick yourself up a GOOD PT. Sit down and have a LONG chat with him/her.  ETC!!!!


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## nikegurl (Mar 19, 2004)

babsie - she meant if she posts her diet will people here be looking at it and suggesting improvements.


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## jaim91 (Mar 19, 2004)

Thank you all so much! I do have a personal trainer. He's never done a caliper test on me or anything, he just showed me the ropes for the first few sessions, and wrote down what I had to work on. Now, I have a motivating training partner, but still see my PT every once in a while. He says that I should compete because I'm naturally lean, but still have to work on my problem areas. There is only one area where I disagree with you guys, while I do agree that it's cool that I got a headstart on bodybuilding a young age, I think it might have messed me up in terms of my body composition. I don't think my BF is as high as it should be for someone my age. Should I keep training while I try to get it up? Or stop and go on an eating spree? Or just not try to get it up?


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## atherjen (Mar 19, 2004)

EAT LOTS and TRAIN HARD!! that will help to pack on more lean muscle!!


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## jaim91 (Mar 20, 2004)

So I should just continue eating 115 g. protein per day, and training just as hard with a combo of cardio and wt?


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## atherjen (Mar 20, 2004)

I recall you saying that you had to eat ALOT to help put on some weight since your body fat is sooo low and your metabolism is sky high. 
115g protein is minimal amount that you want per day, however you could easily bump that up some!


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## jaim91 (Mar 21, 2004)

But as a girl who trains 3-4 days a week, and doesn't do veyr much cardio, I'm not really tapping into my protein stores, and therefore I would say 115 would be more than sufficient. If that's what you recomend (I consider you a reputable and reliable source), then I'll do it. How many g. should I be taking in of the macros to bulk and/or to maintain? If it's too time consuming for you to tell me, then you can give me the formula and I'll try and calculate it. Should everyday be a "high carb" day?


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## Jodi (Mar 21, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by atherjen *_
> I recall you saying that you had to eat ALOT to help put on some weight since your body fat is sooo low and your metabolism is sky high.
> 115g protein is minimal amount that you want per day, however you could easily bump that up some!


I agree!  Especially when your trying gain LBM.  1.5G per lb is where you should be jaim91.


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## atherjen (Mar 22, 2004)

...and with your high metabolism I would focus on getting in carbs everyday, yes. however you need to replace some of your choices with more healthy ones.


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## jaim91 (Mar 23, 2004)

1.5 g * 115 = A LOT! I don't think I can get that much in without taking a supplement (which I am not allowed to do according to my parents). And as a student, it's hard to just whip out a 4 oz. chicken breast at 11 am in the middle of class.


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## atherjen (Mar 23, 2004)

thats not alot at ALL!! thats less than 1glb for me - I weigh 138. 
how come you are not "allowed" to get a protein supplement?


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## jaim91 (Mar 24, 2004)

I was hospitalized a while ago because I was taking too many supplements, my urea and creatinine got way too high, my kidneys crashed, and I had to get an IV to get flushes and have them functioning properly agian


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## Akateros (Mar 24, 2004)

Was that the only issue? What supplements exactly _were_ you taking? And what was your food intake like at the time, other than the protein? And your weight?

Have you done lasting damage to your kidneys? Higher protein intakes have been demonstrated not to damage healthy kidneys, but there are concerns in cases of compromised kidney function.

If you have medical issues, perhaps you should see your doctor about getting a referral to a _qualified_ sports nutritionist, particularly considering your age.


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## Akateros (Mar 24, 2004)

This is going way back to the beginning of the thread, but you may find this article interesting:
Fitness by the Numbers 
It's an article by Chris Cander on measuring bodyfat, first published in _Oxygen._ In the last part of the article, you'll find, first, a table of bodyfat % for women, and how they rank in terms of "athletic", "fitness" and "essential" (you are, by the way, down to your "essential"), and, second, a table including some top female pros, and where they generally measure on- and off-season.


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## jaim91 (Mar 25, 2004)

I wasn't actually taking that many supplements. I was using Lee Labrada's stuff, Nitrotech powder and bars, and Cell Tech. But not all in the same day. My food intake at the time was the same as now, but less calories came from real food. Now, a helluvalot more come from real food because my diet contains no supplements until I get the OK from the docs. The weight/ bodyfat was also the same. It might just have beena blip, but I know have to get blood tests every week to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again, by being monitored weekly.


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## jaim91 (Mar 25, 2004)

The link didn't work....can you please post the URL or somehow send me the chart?


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## Akateros (Mar 25, 2004)

Odd. The whole Chris Cander site seems to have come down, since yesterday.

In case it's temporary, here's the URL of the original article.
www.chriscander.com/art_fitby.html

And here is the Google cache of it:
http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache...ml+chris+cander+fit+by+numbers&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

If that link doesn't work, do a Google search for "chris cander fitness numbers". It should be the top result. Instead of going straight to the page, go to the "cached" version.


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## jaim91 (Mar 26, 2004)

Done and done....When is says that some competitors stay at 7-0 during the season, how long is the season? Is it short enough that the don't get the amenorreah that was talked about?


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## Akateros (Mar 26, 2004)

They'd get amenorrhea, but (in theory) being amenorrheic for the duration of a 3-5 month competitive season (and hard dieting/training leading up to it) won't do THAT much damage. (I believe studies have shown that signs of bone damage can occur in as little as three months of hormonal disruption.)

However, many competitors, even those who maintain a higher level of BF (sufficient to menstruate) in the off-season still run into problems, particularly low fertility and difficulty conceiving. Just menstruating is not a guarantee that all hormones are go, unfortunately. This is true of other typically low-BF athletes as well (distance runners, for example).

I still maintain, that at your age, you would be better NOT controlling your caloric intake as strictly as an older woman, and certainly not dieting down, even for brief periods. Instead, focus on balanced nutrition across the board and lifestyle, and on building healthy mass and muscle. Eat more food, less crap, and make that your daily choice. And keep working out! You've got the dedication, and if you build a strong base NOW, you have your whole life ahead of you.

This is particularly true of bodybuilders, male or female, who tend to get better as they age if they continue to train; they build more "thickness" and muscle maturity. If you weaken your bone structure now by rushing into things injudiciously, you may well suffer serious, career-ending injuries much too soon.

That's the thing about being female. Boys can get away with ripping down in their teens, because their hormone system is not so intimately tied to bodyfat. With girls, it's all interlinked, and trying to get down to competition levels is absolutely against everything your body is "intended" to do.


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## atherjen (Mar 26, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Akateros *_
> 
> I still maintain, that at your age, you would be better NOT controlling your caloric intake as strictly as an older woman, and certainly not dieting down, even for brief periods. Instead, focus on balanced nutrition across the board and lifestyle, and on building healthy mass and muscle. Eat more food, less crap, and make that your daily choice. And keep working out! You've got the dedication, and if you build a strong base NOW, you have your whole life ahead of you.



funny this is what I have been trying to tell you all along Jaim!


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## jaim91 (Mar 26, 2004)

And I appreciate it. So how do I go from 11 to 18 (I think that's where I want to be) without actually getting fat? And how closely related are BMI to bf?


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## Akateros (Mar 26, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by jaim91 *_
> And I appreciate it. So how do I go from 11 to 18 (I think that's where I want to be) without actually getting fat? And how closely related are BMI to bf?


As to the first, you _will_ probably get larger than you are, but it doesn't have to be extreme as long as you keep the muscle mass happening. (On another board I'm on, someone asked the women BBs -- all natural -- what their size difference was on and off-season. Typically, on-season they were a 2-4, and off usually about 6-8-10. Still slim, you understand.) Gradually is the way to do it, and without going crazy on foods that are fattening for the sake of fattening.

(The calorie calculations will be off, of course, but you may want to google up John Berardi's Massive Eating plan. Ah, heck with it, here it is: http://johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/masseating_1.htm
http://johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/masseating_2.htm

Not everyone necessarily agrees with all -- or even any -- of his theories, but I've certainly found some at least work for me. And of course the Bulking sticky right here will help too.)

As to the second, the more muscular you are, the less significance BMI has. It is essentially meaningless for most athletic people. Ignore it, and ignore the scale too. Go by measurements (as in, with a tape measure) and bodyfat testing.


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## jaim91 (Mar 29, 2004)

At what bf does a girl typically get her period? And how long does she have to maintain that before she diets down to a lower one for a competition?


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## Akateros (Mar 29, 2004)

It varies _very_ widely. Some women keep it right down to 9-10%; others lose it if they go below 18%. There are so many other factors involved, including heredity, quality of nutrition otherwise (malnutrition, as in eating disorders or overly enthusiastic dieting, can cause women of normal or even over-weight to lose their periods), intensity of training (a study of runners, for instance, found that though their diets didn't change appreciably on- or off-season, during the summer, while they were logging heavy miles, a substantial percentage stopped bleeding). 

Chances are, there is _no_ truly "safe" length of time to be amenorrheic, whether deliberately or accidentally; the point is to minimize the damage by doing it as little as possible. Remember, bone damage can be _perceptible_ in tests in as little as three months, but will be starting before that. Impact on fertility and other hormonal functions has not been widely studied. (Incidentally, studies have also shown that inducing periods with the birth-control pill, while still a very popular therapy, is largely ineffective in preventing loss of bone mass. As is calcium supplementation if no natural hormonal cycle exists; most of the calcium is not used, and is simply pissed away.)


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## JLB001 (Mar 29, 2004)

Mine stays even at 8%, so everyone is different.


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## nikegurl (Mar 29, 2004)

...and mine goes around 15-16%.  very true that it varies a lot.


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## scullz (Mar 29, 2004)

I'm glad there are some girls my age serious about their diet. Jesus! My ex is going "no carb" diet but she forgot that candy defeats the whole purpose! Are you going for serious bodybuilding or fitness model?


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## jaim91 (Mar 30, 2004)

I am going for serious bodybuilding, but am afraid that being at 11% will affect my period. I can't believe yours stays at 8 JLB... Of course I don't want to do long term damage at 16 year old, but I do want to get a leg up on the competition I might have later by training hard now...


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## JLB001 (Mar 30, 2004)

I still get it, but it will only last a day or two at the most.  But the dang thing still shows up!


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## Jodi (Mar 30, 2004)

I'm at approx. 15% and I don't have it.  I haven't had my period in 1.5 years.


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## jaim91 (Mar 31, 2004)

but isn't it not good at your age (I'm guessing you're young Jodi) to lose it for 1.5 years...there's nothing eating disorder related right?

JBL, isn't it GOOD that you get it?


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## JLB001 (Mar 31, 2004)

It is good, just means no baby.   But at 37, I could careless if I get it.  But I have to cause Craig wants one baby.  We just don't have plans on that at this moment.


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## Jodi (Mar 31, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by jaim91 *_
> but isn't it not good at your age (I'm guessing you're young Jodi) to lose it for 1.5 years...there's nothing eating disorder related right?
> 
> JBL, isn't it GOOD that you get it?


I'm 31   It doesn't affect me either way and I prefer not having it.  I won't be having children AT ALL so I'm not worried in the least.


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## atherjen (Mar 31, 2004)

awww never any lil Jodi's?


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## Jodi (Mar 31, 2004)

Hell no 

To each their own.  I made my decision long ago never that I di not want children.   Don't get me wrong, I love my nieces ALOT and I like to spoil them.  They are so precious.


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## jaim91 (Apr 1, 2004)

So are you saying you should start getting it for longer? As in, higher bodyfat for a longer period of time?


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## jaim91 (Apr 2, 2004)

"Chances are, there is no truly "safe" length of time to be amenorrheic, whether deliberately or accidentally" - jodi and jbl...are you chosing not to have your period, or it's just that you're old enough not to get it anymore? I am scared to get it because it means that I am at a high bf (which is good for health, but not good for competing)...


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## Jodi (Apr 2, 2004)

I'm only 31 - Don't be rushing menopause for me. 

I like to remain athetic, healthy and lean and at the % I'm at now, I just don't get my period.  It's not by choice even though I do rather like not having it


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## JLB001 (Apr 2, 2004)

It's not like I have a choice on if I get it or not when my bf gets low.  It just comes but doesn't stay for very long.  I am far from hitting menopause too!


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## Akateros (Apr 2, 2004)

Jaim, if you're concerned (and amenorrheic) you can get your bone density checked. (Which would be my prime concern.) If bone density is monitored, and there are no signs of  osteopenia/osteoporosis (weight-bearing exercise of course does increase bone density, so that may be in the favour of athletic amenorrheic weight-trainers -- although the impact factor appeared to be a negative for amenorrheic runners) then it's not a catastrophe.

Osteoporosis, on the other hand, is a catastrophe. Women with osteoporosis and broken hips? Apparently, that is more often "her hip broke and THEN she fell down" rather than the other way round. And many ANOREXIC amenorrheic girls get serious osteoporosis and fractures even in their teens. (Another good reason not to neglect nutrition.)


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## jaim91 (Apr 3, 2004)

I completely agreed with you. I did get my bone density checked yesterday at the hospital, and they said everything looked normal (the reason I got it in the first place was because I'm not getting my period). I guess I don't understand. I mean, some people don't get their periods because their bf's are so low, but their bones are still ok...so what's the damage being done?


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## JLB001 (Apr 3, 2004)

I take a calcium supplement twice daily to help ward off Osteoporosis.   You also have to keep in mind my bf doesn't stay low enough for my monthly to ever completely stop.  When I do hit 8% or so, its only at that % for less than a week or two.


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## jaim91 (Apr 4, 2004)

Why does it go up and down? I mean, shouldn't it be at your lowest only when you're competing? Why do you cycle it?


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## JLB001 (Apr 4, 2004)

I don't cycle it, your body doesn't go from 15% down to 8% over night.  It takes weeks to get it there with cardio and the proper diet.  When you start eatting foods you couldn't have while dieting, the bodyfat naturally goes back up to where your body is comfy at.


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## jaim91 (Apr 5, 2004)

How often does yours go down to 8? And how long do yo maintain it there?


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## JLB001 (Apr 5, 2004)

Only when I am a week before a show does it get that low.  My normal bf can range from 15 to 20% bepending on the time of year and if I am dieting down for a comp.


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## jaim91 (Apr 5, 2004)

OK, cool....so for the majority of the year, you maintain a healthy female bf...good to know...


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## jaim91 (Jun 10, 2004)

Just got it tested again using alligator clips and strodes (stickers on my ankles and hands). It said (3 times...he wanted to make sure the results were consistant) that I was at 3%.... Is this type of testing accurate? Is it possible for  girl (16 years old..so maybe, young lady) to be at 3%??


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## Akateros (Jun 10, 2004)

Possible, but not very likely, unless you are quite visibly a walking skeleton and probably on the verge of hospitalization. How was your hydration? Those electrical things can sometimes be thrown off badly by water balance.

Seriously, 3% is about the rock-bottom edge for _male_ professional bodybuilders at their onstage moment, loaded with diuretics and drugs and who-knows-what. If your BF was that low, you would not be feeling very topping.

If you really want to know, you should try and find an _experienced_ trainer to do good ol' caliper pinch testing. (Experienced means a real trainer who's pinched, preferably, hundreds of people, not one of those Joes at the big gyms who've been given a half-hour workshop on it so they can do the new customers.)


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## LAM (Jun 10, 2004)

jaim91 said:
			
		

> Just got it tested again using alligator clips and strodes (stickers on my ankles and hands). It said (3 times...he wanted to make sure the results were consistant) that I was at 3%.... Is this type of testing accurate? Is it possible for girl (16 years old..so maybe, young lady) to be at 3%??


Nobody gets to 3% bf unintentionally, by accident or naturally for that matter unless you have a serious thyroid problem...plus electrical impedance testing is inaccurate, you need to get a 9-point caliper test



and if you are still getting your period you are definetly not at 3% bodyfat...


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## CowPimp (Jun 10, 2004)

It's good that your bone density is still normal; all you can do now is eat more.  If you want to get bigger, then you should be eating about 2000 calories at your weight.  From the sound of it you naturally have a super-high metabolism.  Therefore, you may want to go quite a bit higher.  On top of this, it doesn't sound like you need to do a clean bulk.  Eat clean foods, but don't worry about some additional fat gain.


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## jaim91 (Jun 11, 2004)

I have had a 7 point caliper test done before...and it came to 7. The electronic machine also tested my water balance (53.8 litres); and I only had a moderate amount to drink, so I don't think water would be a huge factor. I don't eat cleanly at all. I mean, I try to get 115 grams of protein each day...but I don't rely on egg whites and chicken breast to sustain me. The only thing is that my gym teachers warned me that too much junk food will clog my arteries in the long run. So now I'm torn. Junk is the only thing that puts weight on for me.


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## jaim91 (Jun 11, 2004)

I have been unofficially diagnosed with dysmorphia, so I can't really answer your question about being a "walking skeleton". I mean, I don't think I am...


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## Akateros (Jun 11, 2004)

Do people stop and stare at you in the street? Do old ladies cluck at you worriedly? Have you been pulled aside and asked in murmurs about "eating... problems, dear?"

As for eating junk -- what about calorie-dense nonjunk like nuts, dried fruit, real cheese? Higher-fat fish? Beef? Skip the egg whites, and go for all eggs? (The fat in yolks has nutritional value.) The thing with living off DQ and the like is that it lacks nutrients, and apart from your arteries, consumption of a lot of sugar in the longterm can lead to pre-diabetic conditions. It's nice as a treat (and especially nice if you can treat yourself without needing to pay penance later to keep it off less flattering places) but you'd get more good (aside from mass/weight gain or maintenance) out of things that have more to offer.


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## jaim91 (Jun 11, 2004)

Some people stop and stare, and those close to my family ask if I "have eating problems dear"...people in the gym too...


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