# About to start a Test, Deca, Primo cycle - Need some helpful advice



## old_man (Nov 4, 2012)

*Hi All, constructive criticism and helpful advice appreciated. I'm 56 and about to start a cycle. About me, for almost two years, on a daily basis I've been using peptide precursors - modified GRF (1-29) and Ipamorelin (the equivalent of a moderate dosage of HGH). Along with physical therapy, they have been helpful in healing chronic rotator cuff inflamation (right shoulder) and a torn quadriceps tendon (right knee torn about 2 years ago). I will be continuing with peptides as they have a number of benefits (better sleep, enhanced immune function, reducing % body fat, hardening muscles but not bulking, etc.).

Where I need advice is in putting together a Test E, Deca, Primo cycle. I'm ready and able to put on some lean body mass (goal is 15-20 lbs) and continuing to lower body fat. Fat % is still way too high (around 18%, hoping to eventually get down to 13-14 %; remember I'm an old guy so I'm trying to be realistic). Fat is mostly from not being able to train and a period of not-so-great diet which is behind me. I've been working out hard again for about 9 months (3 days weight training, 3 days cardio, 1 hr+ per session). Current diet includes ~160 grams protein day (~50 of that from whey shakes). I have used Test E on and off for about 5 years, but in light dosages (~200 mgs/week). I don't know much about the other gear just what I've read or been told. Based on some advice (good or bad) I already have my gear, so I'm not really open to going with different than what I already have (Test E, Deca, Primo depot), at least not this time around. Good news is I have no doubts that what I have is what it's supposed to be.

I was thinking of a cycle something like this: Test E 300 - 400 mg/wk for 12 weeks, Deca 200 - 300 mg/wk for first 10 weeks, Primo 200-250 mg/wk starting somewhere in mid-cycle and continuing past Deca for several weeks. I also have Arimidex, plan on taking .25 mg/day. For PCT (have Clomid) and plan on starting a week or two after I stop Test. Will do Clomid for 3-4 weeks. Need advice/recommendations on this cycle, dosages, how best to include the Primo since I already have it, and anything I can add to guard against hair loss and/or loss of sex drive. I also saw a quick note about Cabergoline. Is their any benefit to adding this into this cycle? Comments on diet or anything related also appreciated. Thanks in advance for any/all feedback. *


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## theCaptn' (Nov 4, 2012)

Doses may be a little on the low side. I would start with Test 500-600mg Deca 400. Can't comment on primo, never used it


Sent from my jewPhone


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## longworthb (Nov 4, 2012)

Never used primo either but I agree with captn. Run your test somewhere between 5-700 deca at around 4-500 and make sure u have something on hands for possible prolactin sides. If u start to experience Ed due to the deca up your test or drop the deca down a little. Use caber at .5 every 3rd day and u should be fine. Plus the sex on caber is amazing


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## old_man (Nov 4, 2012)

Thanks for the quick response. That's the kind of feedback I was looking for. If I go with 500 mg Test and 400 Deca, are cycle times of 12 weeks and 10 weeks respectively for each about right?

With those dosages is there much to worry about in terms of sides?\



theCaptn' said:


> Doses may be a little on the low side. I would start with Test 500-600mg Deca 400. Can't comment on primo, never used it
> 
> 
> Sent from my jewPhone


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## old_man (Nov 4, 2012)

longworthb said:


> Never used primo either but I agree with captn. Run your test somewhere between 5-700 deca at around 4-500 and make sure u have something on hands for possible prolactin sides. If u start to experience Ed due to the deca up your test or drop the deca down a little. Use caber at .5 every 3rd day and u should be fine. Plus the sex on caber is amazing



Ok, I'll be thinking about higher dosing on the Test and Deca. With the ranges you recommend, is a 15-20 lb gain realistic for a ~12 week cycle?  Appreciate the information on the Cabergoline. Is the Caber what will help with the prolactin sides?


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## longworthb (Nov 4, 2012)

Yup the caber will help a ton. And u want to run your test longer then the deca because deca is a longer ester. 15-20 lbs is definitely a realistic goal bro. U need any other advice feel free to pm me


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## old_man (Nov 5, 2012)

Could really use some knowledgeable advice on how to best work Primobolan Depot into my upcoming cycle (details listed in attached first post). Sorry if I seem like I'm in a hurry, but I kinda am as I'm anxious to get started pretty quickly.

Or, if the thinking is, it's not great for a bulking cycle, I can hang on to it for a cutting cycle in the future. Either way, I'd want to do it with Test E and Deca, as I already have some, and have confidence that the Primo, Deca, and Test are the real deal.





old_man said:


> *Hi All, constructive criticism and helpful advice appreciated. I'm 56 and about to start a cycle. About me, for almost two years, on a daily basis I've been using peptide precursors - modified GRF (1-29) and Ipamorelin (the equivalent of a moderate dosage of HGH). Along with physical therapy, they have been helpful in healing chronic rotator cuff inflamation (right shoulder) and a torn quadriceps tendon (right knee torn about 2 years ago). I will be continuing with peptides as they have a number of benefits (better sleep, enhanced immune function, reducing % body fat, hardening muscles but not bulking, etc.).
> 
> Where I need advice is in putting together a Test E, Deca, Primo cycle. I'm ready and able to put on some lean body mass (goal is 15-20 lbs) and continuing to lower body fat. Fat % is still way too high (around 18%, hoping to eventually get down to 13-14 %; remember I'm an old guy so I'm trying to be realistic). Fat is mostly from not being able to train and a period of not-so-great diet which is behind me. I've been working out hard again for about 9 months (3 days weight training, 3 days cardio, 1 hr+ per session). Current diet includes ~160 grams protein day (~50 of that from whey shakes). I have used Test E on and off for about 5 years, but in light dosages (~200 mgs/week). I don't know much about the other gear just what I've read or been told. Based on some advice (good or bad) I already have my gear, so I'm not really open to going with different than what I already have (Test E, Deca, Primo depot), at least not this time around. Good news is I have no doubts that what I have is what it's supposed to be.
> 
> I was thinking of a cycle something like this: Test E 300 - 400 mg/wk for 12 weeks, Deca 200 - 300 mg/wk for first 10 weeks, Primo 200-250 mg/wk starting somewhere in mid-cycle and continuing past Deca for several weeks. I also have Arimidex, plan on taking .25 mg/day. For PCT (have Clomid) and plan on starting a week or two after I stop Test. Will do Clomid for 3-4 weeks. Need advice/recommendations on this cycle, dosages, how best to include the Primo since I already have it, and anything I can add to guard against hair loss and/or loss of sex drive. I also saw a quick note about Cabergoline. Is their any benefit to adding this into this cycle? Comments on diet or anything related also appreciated. Thanks in advance for any/all feedback. *


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## old_man (Nov 5, 2012)

longworthb said:


> Yup the caber will help a ton. And u want to run your test longer then the deca because deca is a longer ester. 15-20 lbs is definitely a realistic goal bro. U need any other advice feel free to pm me



One question I forgot to ask, at one point i did try some Deca (400 mg) for a few days, along w/ 400 mg Test E, just to see how I would react and feel on it. Injection site got somewhat painful but nothing too bad. What I didn't like though was having a mid-grade headache most of the time. Will that go away over time, or is there something I can take to keep that from occurring?

By the way, thanks for the invite to PM. In the next few days, I'll be figuring out how to fully use the features of the site and fleshing out my profile.


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## longworthb (Nov 5, 2012)

I highly doubt the headaches are from the gear. How long we're u on this little trial phase? One shot of deca is enough to shut u down. I'd recommend just low dose aspirin. That's usually all I take and it helps with bp as well


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## overburdened (Nov 5, 2012)

old_man said:


> Could really use some knowledgeable advice on how to best work Primobolan Depot into my upcoming cycle (details listed in attached first post). Sorry if I seem like I'm in a hurry, but I kinda am as I'm anxious to get started pretty quickly.
> 
> Or, if the thinking is, it's not great for a bulking cycle, I can hang on to it for a cutting cycle in the future. Either way, I'd want to do it with Test E and Deca, as I already have some, and have confidence that the Primo, Deca, and Test are the real deal.



Save the primo for another cycle.. if you only have enough to run it at those dosages you listed, you will be sorely dissapointed.. primo is best at 800+mg weekly....


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## overburdened (Nov 5, 2012)

old_man said:


> One question I forgot to ask, at one point i did try some Deca (400 mg) for a few days, along w/ 400 mg Test E, just to see how I would react and feel on it. Injection site got somewhat painful but nothing too bad. What I didn't like though was having a mid-grade headache most of the time. Will that go away over time, or is there something I can take to keep that from occurring?
> 
> By the way, thanks for the invite to PM. In the next few days, I'll be figuring out how to fully use the features of the site and fleshing out my profile.


a little pain at the site is normal.. deca is one that will hurt a little.. should go away in a couple days though... as long as no redness or warm skin at the site you are good...

like longworth said, the headache prob wasn't from the gear.. even frontloading deca, it's a good two weeks before there is much in the way of blood levels...


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## old_man (Nov 5, 2012)

I keep a log and just went through it. Was on the Deca for 2 weeks. The headache seemed to startafter about 7 days and stopped shortly after I went off, but sometimes things seem like cause and effect but aren't. So, you're probably right. Guess I'll just have to give the Deca a try and see. Taking some aspirin is no big deal - I'm not one of those who has a problem with it.

Thanks again longworthb, for the advice - much appreciated.


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## old_man (Nov 5, 2012)

hey overburdened, actually i have more Primo than that. The low dosage I originally indicated had more to do with my lack of experience with Primo. I'd done some research and read that the higher doses of sometimes cause some hair loss. Are you able to suggest the smallest but still effective dose? Whatever that dose may be, is the hair loss an issue or is that only at some even higher dose (if so, would appreciate an idea of what that dose may be).

Or maybe you still feel saving the Primo for a cutting cycle is the best idea. I wouldn't have a problem with that.

One member PM'd and said, "Save it for a cutting cycle. The best cutting cycle I ever did was 400 mg test e and 800 primo for 14 weeks, and of course diet is key. "   Seems like a reasonable approach. Do you have an opinion on that? Do you think there would be a hair thinning issue at that level and that cycle length.

Last  question, if I do plan a cutting cycle something like that suggested, is there a place for Deca in it, and if so what would be the suggested minimum effective dose?  Thanks for any and all adive.


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## BP2000 (Nov 5, 2012)

Since you are older I would watch for prostate and maybe keep your doses a little low. The guys that recommend 500 and 700mg that is medium to large dose. You could get by fine with 350-400mg test and 200-300mg deca for your first run. I wouldn't go over 300mg deca because of prolactin issues (sexual side effect, your dick may not work)

Then for cutter use test and primo. Primo 600mg. (it is mild) Primo can enlarge the prostate as well as hairloss so be mindful of that. If you don't have hairloss issues (genetic) then hairloss won't be a large issue for you. It could swell up the prostate though so keep an eye on it. DHT Does that and Primo is a DHT based drug. 

*How were your gains on your previous test cycles?*


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## old_man (Nov 5, 2012)

BP2000 said:


> Since you are older I would watch for prostate and maybe keep your doses a little low. The guys that recommend 500 and 700mg that is medium to large dose. You could get by fine with 350-400mg test and 200-300mg deca for your first run. I wouldn't go over 300mg deca because of prolactin issues (sexual side effect, your dick may not work)
> 
> Then for cutter use test and primo. Primo 600mg. (it is mild) Primo can enlarge the prostate as well as hairloss so be mindful of that. If you don't have hairloss issues (genetic) then hairloss won't be a large issue for you. It could swell up the prostate though so keep an eye on it. DHT Does that and Primo is a DHT based drug.
> 
> *How were your gains on your previous test cycles?*



To tell you the truth, my original idea was to try and keep the doses low mainly to keep the risk of sides low. Of course no one wants there dick to stop working, but it's like you mentioned, being older I need to be aware of possible prostate issues. I do have a bit of hair thinning, not too bad really, but that was on my mind and the reason (along w/ ignorance) that I was keeping the primo dosing low.

I never took very high doses of test (~250 mg/wk) but I've done quite a few cycles over the past five years. For the past 2 years I've also been doing growth hormone peptides, mostly to help recover from a torn quadriceps and chronic rotator cuff inflamation. I was happy with the Test results - got reasonably pretty firm but not a lot of bulk, and no real sides. After the injuries, my training and diet kind went a bit off course. Now I want to get back to where i was plus add a little, but not at the expense of any serious sides.

You've got me thinking my original doses were probably best for my situation, 350-400 test and 250-300 deca. I'll keep doing the peptides so that should help too. For the Primo, given that I might be prone to hair thinning, what do you think the lowest dose that would still provide some benefits would be? Could I get any benefits on less than 600 mg or would that just be a waste?

I guess I'm really wondering now if I'm going to go with the lower dosages of Test and Deca, maybe I should focus this cycle more on firming and cutting, reduce body fat %, harden things up and if I don't have sides take a couple of months off and then do a bulking cycle. Am I missing the boat or might that make sense?


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## longworthb (Nov 5, 2012)

U can always start at your original doses and up them if u don't have sides that aren't manageable. It's hard to drop the dose down with a longer ester but a lot easier to add. I'd say 400 test and 300 deca would be a good starting spot but I'd much prefer test doses at twice the deca to make sure I don't get deca dick but u could respond very well to lower doses. Everyone is different


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## longworthb (Nov 5, 2012)

Oh I also recommend getting bloods done before the cycle to see where your natural test levels are. If there low your a perfect candidate for trt


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## overburdened (Nov 6, 2012)

Primo is really good for cutting cycles.. are you prone to hair loss?  If you aren't, you won't notice much hair loss, even with moderately high doses of primo...

deca is good for dieting, but it won't give you the 'finished' look.. it will leave you with some water most of the time.. but you can diet with it, then switch to primo for the 'finished look'...  600mg is a good place to start with the primo, you can go up from there til you find a dose you like with no sides.. (primo is on the REALLY low end, sides-wise... so  you can do a fair bit and be alright...)  

Primo is an excellent comp for older people, as it really doesn't have much in the way of sides...

you won't have issues with 'deca dick' as long as you keep the test slightly higher(and caber always helps as well...)




old_man said:


> hey overburdened, actually i have more Primo than that. The low dosage I originally indicated had more to do with my lack of experience with Primo. I'd done some research and read that the higher doses of sometimes cause some hair loss. Are you able to suggest the smallest but still effective dose? Whatever that dose may be, is the hair loss an issue or is that only at some even higher dose (if so, would appreciate an idea of what that dose may be).
> 
> Or maybe you still feel saving the Primo for a cutting cycle is the best idea. I wouldn't have a problem with that.
> 
> ...


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## old_man (Nov 6, 2012)

longworthb said:


> U can always start at your original doses and up them if u don't have sides that aren't manageable. It's hard to drop the dose down with a longer ester but a lot easier to add. I'd say 400 test and 300 deca would be a good starting spot but I'd much prefer test doses at twice the deca to make sure I don't get deca dick but u could respond very well to lower doses. Everyone is different



Yeah, makes sense. Starting lower leaves room for increases. Based on all the good advice I've gotten, I'm thinking I may focus this cycle more on firming, cutting, and reducing fat%. If no bad sides, I can take 2 or 3 months off and then do a higher dosage bulker.

I had blood work done about a month ago. They don't reflect my natural T levels though because I'd been doing Test E (250 mg/wk) up to about 2 weeks before the blood work. My levels were: Serum Test 982 ng/dl and Free Test 49 pg/ml. From what i recall, the last time I had blood work w/o having done T, levels were slightly below mid-way of the normal range.


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## old_man (Nov 6, 2012)

overburdened said:


> Primo is really good for cutting cycles.. are you prone to hair loss? If you aren't, you won't notice much hair loss, even with moderately high doses of primo...
> 
> deca is good for dieting, but it won't give you the 'finished' look.. it will leave you with some water most of the time.. but you can diet with it, then switch to primo for the 'finished look'... 600mg is a good place to start with the primo, you can go up from there til you find a dose you like with no sides.. (primo is on the REALLY low end, sides-wise... so you can do a fair bit and be alright...)
> 
> ...



I've had a little hair thinning, not much, so I probably should start the Primo doses low - I can try 600 and go from there. What kind of results can I expect from doing a cutter with 350 test and 250 deca? If I can make some progress with little or no sides I'm ok with it for this cycle.

When in the cycle should I introduce the primo (at 600/wk)? Maybe keep the test at the same level and at some point drop the deca and add the primo or should they be overlapped at all?

A couple guys recommended the Caber. Should that be integrated into the cycle? If so, how much and how often for the cutting cycle? Or should it only be used if sides appear. I'm planning on anastrozole too, around .25 mg/day.   At this point I hope I'm getting close to something that makes sense for me, so opinions are encouraged even if it's to say 'there's a better way to go".  I'm anxious to get started - thanks to everyone for all the helpful advice.


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## old_man (Nov 7, 2012)

longworthb said:


> Never used primo either but I agree with captn. Run your test somewhere between 5-700 deca at around 4-500 and make sure u have something on hands for possible prolactin sides. If u start to experience Ed due to the deca up your test or drop the deca down a little. Use caber at .5 every 3rd day and u should be fine. Plus the sex on caber is amazing



Plan is a bit different now. Going to make this a cutting cycle. If all goes well, next time around will be a bulker w/ higher dosing.

Goal this cycle: reduce body fat 18% to 14%. Firm and harden muscles. Maintain current weight (187 lbs).

Planned dosages: 

Test E, 300 mg, wks 1-14     
Deca, 250 mg, wks 1-10    
Primo,  400 mg, wks 3 - 14 (would make it 500 but I'll be using all I have)
Peptides, modfied grf(1-29), and Ipamorelin (3 x 100 mcg/day)
Anastrozole, .25 mg/day, wks 1-14
Caber, ???  (longworthb, hey bro, for this protocol would you still recommend integrating Caber into cycle ? same dosing??)

PCT, wks 17-20, clomid (100mg, 50 mg, 50 mg) - if I continue the peptides,  I may not need the clomid ??

Diet, 2,400 cal day (~500 less/day than base maintenance)
Protein, 200 gr/day
Carbs, complex, clean (vary slightly day to day)
Lots of vegetables, oatmeal, high fiber fruit, etc.
5 meals per day (3 based around whey protein)

Is plan reasonable?
Goals realistic?
Diet and protein intake Ok?

All that helped me get to this point, thanks! and please comment - I plan to start on Friday.


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## old_man (Nov 8, 2012)

old_man said:


> Plan is a bit different now. Going to make this a cutting cycle. If all goes well, next time around will be a bulker w/ higher dosing.
> 
> Goal this cycle: reduce body fat 18% to 14%. Firm and harden muscles. Maintain current weight (187 lbs).
> 
> ...


Anyone have a comment on my cycle plan? I'd feel better if someone had something to say about it.


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## Mr.BTB (Nov 9, 2012)

On your Test you need to up it a little more as it breaks down and is not like a prop ester....And Primo some respond well to it and other do not...I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you have enough up your primo to 500mg a week. If you have changed this to a cutter then deca I would drop just personally and leave the deca to a bulk cycle. 

pxt wise: I would not drop the clomid what so ever.....for me personally I love it!

The rest have fun and train hard and have your diet in check!

MR.BTB


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## jay_steel (Nov 9, 2012)

drop the primo and hold onto it until you can run it for longer at a higher dose. raise your test to 750 to 900. Deca at 400 or so. I run mine at 600. i dont run caber with deca just because my dick still works well with higher test. Clomid is a must for pct with deca.


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## old_man (Nov 11, 2012)

Mr.BTB said:


> On your Test you need to up it a little more as it breaks down and is not like a prop ester....And Primo some respond well to it and other do not...I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you have enough up your primo to 500mg a week. If you have changed this to a cutter then deca I would drop just personally and leave the deca to a bulk cycle.
> 
> pxt wise: I would not drop the clomid what so ever.....for me personally I love it!
> 
> ...


Ok, i think i will up the primo to 500 mg/wk and the test to 350 or 400. probably just take enough deca for joint support (100 mg should do it). I'll keep Clomid in for PCT. When you say you love it, is it for the effect, because some guys say it  gets them a bit depressed. You experience anything like that? One guy even said it screws up his eyesight???


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