# Best Overall symmetry??



## ZECH (Aug 13, 2003)

Who had the best overall symmetry of all bodybuilders? 
I'm gonna have to go with Frank Zane!


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## Arnold (Aug 13, 2003)

Lee Labrada


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## Arnold (Aug 13, 2003)

one of many good pics of Lee.


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## OceanDude (Aug 13, 2003)

Zane for sure.


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## Arnold (Aug 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by OceanDude *_
> Zane for sure.



Zane was too small/skinny.


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## ZECH (Aug 13, 2003)

Nope!


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## ZECH (Aug 13, 2003)

another


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## Mudge (Aug 13, 2003)

Zane was kind of a big Steve Reves, a little small to me, not that I look like that


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## OceanDude (Aug 13, 2003)

Honestly I never studied Labrada seriously and am impressed with that photo. But he has a completely different look than Zane. He is more "stocky" and massive than Zane. Zane is more "fluid" and aesthetic in my opinion. Zane's figure is closest to my body type so I emualate him and use him as a role model. Labrada looks graet too but I just don't have his frame and mass and as we all know "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and we all tend to favor things we can personally identify with.


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## Arnold (Aug 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Nope!



LMAO

posting his pic does not change the fact that he competed at around 175lbs at 5' 9"!!!


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## Arnold (Aug 13, 2003)

Labrada was referred to as "Mr. Symmetry", never as being "stocky" or "massive", cause he was neither.


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## Arnold (Aug 13, 2003)

here is a ripped and vascular shot!


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## Arnold (Aug 13, 2003)




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## OceanDude (Aug 13, 2003)

Let's not forget that Zane was one of the few people to beat Arnold Schwarzenegger - pretty impressive for a "light weight".

Here is some other interesting info:

Frank Zane won Mr. Olympia, bodybuilding's highest title, 3 times: 1977, 1978, 1979.



Defeated Arnold Schwarzenegger in the 1968 Mr. Universe competition in Miami , Florida. He also won Mr. Universe 2 more times in London, England in 1970 and 1972.

Oh - the other part of the symmetry that is harder to judge is "intelligence". Zane is one of the most educated Bodybuilders in the history of the sport.


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## Arnold (Aug 13, 2003)

sorry, I have never cared for Zane's physique.


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## gr81 (Aug 13, 2003)

I agree with you Prince, Zane was too light. I am not all that impressd with him. I love Shawn Rays symmetry, it is a thing of beauty, Flex also has great symmetry IMO. You are right though, Labrada was very well proportioned, great physique. Hey OD, I don't see what Zanes education hs to so with his symmetry??


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## Fit Freak (Aug 14, 2003)

Zane's symmetry is gr8 but he was a little on the light side.  Labrada's symmetry is dead on...so too is the symmetry and perfect proportions of Flex, Shawn Ray, and also Dexter Jaxkson (although he never seems to get any recognition).


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## Rob_NC (Aug 14, 2003)

Sounds like a lot of you are more pleased with the drugged-out super-humans rather than a more natural looking physique.

I'd like to see what Labrada looks like at Zanes age right now. Bet he won't compare.


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## OceanDude (Aug 14, 2003)

Well, like I said, Zane looks much more "natural" and "fluid" and frankly there is something more "intelligent" and "sharp" about him that catches my eye. He will no doubt outlive all of the others.

Labrada seems to have a much longer trunk relative to his lower body length. Zane seems "classic" in terms of ratio of upper body length and lower body length. Labrada has huge legs relative to Zane that just do not look attractive to me - poweful for sure but too beefy and slow looking. Zane looks like a cheeta - strong, fast and sleek and not an ounce of wasted or excess muscle to carry. Form follows function and I just like Zane's style.


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## Mudge (Aug 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by OceanDude *_
> Zane looks much more "natural" and "fluid" and frankly there is something more "intelligent" and "sharp" about him that catches my eye.



Well, he was a teacher 



> _*Originally posted by Rob_NC *_
> I'd like to see what Labrada looks like at Zanes age right now. Bet he won't compare.



When is the last time you saw Zane, I'm sure he beefs up a little for the occasional photoshoot/ad, but on a show with Shawn Ray and Kevin Levrone and I frankly could not tell that he really worked out at all.


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## Rob_NC (Aug 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> Well, he was a teacher
> 
> 
> ...




I doubt any of us would look like we worked out standing next to monsters like them.


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## Arnold (Aug 14, 2003)

When did Frank Zane ever look beefy to begin with?


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## ZECH (Aug 14, 2003)

Frank is 60 now!


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## Mudge (Aug 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Rob_NC *_
> I doubt any of us would look like we worked out standing next to monsters like them.



I'm not that big but you can tell I work out,  Zane is old and I have nothing against  him for saying "gee he sucks he is not a freak," but I could not really tell he worked out. I would have guessed that he ate decently or had a decent  metabolism, along with perhaps doing some cardio.

Obviously when Zane competed you could tell he worked out, of course.


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## Mudge (Aug 14, 2003)

Albert Beckles was huge into his 60s, now that he is into his 70s I have not seen pictures, many of these pix are in his 60s.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/bodybuilders/albert.htm

Serge is also still quite built the last I had seen of him. I am not saying that it really matters, we all have the right to be lighter if we choose to, but Zane does not impress me and I was never really a fan.


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## Pumping Iron (Aug 14, 2003)

Zane had "flesh of the gods" as it was called by some people. 

I think Flex Wheeler has incredible proportions and symmetry, and awesome round muscle bellies and size to go with it.


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## Mudge (Aug 14, 2003)

Flex was truly a gifted "freak" as far as looks, especially for his weight. He has big kidney problems right now though, as did another black male but I forget his name offhand 

I liked Steve Reves better than Zane personally.


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## gopro (Aug 15, 2003)

Well, symmetry refers to equal balance of both sides...proportion refers to balance between muscle groups...aesthetics has more to do with the "beauty" of how its put together. So who has/had the best combined?

-Flex
-Shawn
-Lee L
-Bob Paris
-Zane
-Benfatto
-Rory L
-Cormier

To name a few...


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## Arnold (Aug 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Well, symmetry refers to equal balance of both sides...



by strict definition of the word, you're correct. 

But when it's used in this sense (a physique) it means more along the lines of: "beauty as a result of balance or harmonious arrangement."


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## Mudge (Aug 15, 2003)

Benfatto was ripped, I liked him even though he never really placed well. Paris I thought about, and I remember he was big on balance.


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## gopro (Aug 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> by strict definition of the word, you're correct.
> 
> But when it's used in this sense (a physique) it means more along the lines of: "beauty as a result of balance or harmonious arrangement."



That is more how I view the word "aesthetics" in bodybuilding. I still, personally, view symmetry as side to side development. Maybe its b/c I come from an art backround?


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## Arnold (Aug 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> That is more how I view the word "aesthetics" in bodybuilding. I still, personally, view symmetry as side to side development. Maybe its b/c I come from an art backround?



Well, many words in the English language have more than one definition.


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## OceanDude (Aug 15, 2003)

I am not at all familiar with Paris - anyone have a picture?


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## Arnold (Aug 15, 2003)

he was a bit light in the loafers.


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## Mudge (Aug 15, 2003)

Bob Paris was all about balance, and he was gay FWIW.


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## Arnold (Aug 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> he was a bit light in the loafers.


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## Mudge (Aug 15, 2003)

I wasn't sure what that meant but the wink kind of clued me in, I was not sure   Oh I get it now, he walked with a pep in his step 

Like this guy http://www.pixyland.org/peterpan


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## OceanDude (Aug 15, 2003)

Ah thanks for the clarificaiton, I had surmised with reasonable certainty he meant the guy was a penny short of 2 cents and therefor "odd" in a queer sort of way.


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## oaktownboy (Aug 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> I wasn't sure what that meant but the wink kind of clued me in, I was not sure   Oh I get it now, he walked with a pep in his step
> 
> Like this guy http://www.pixyland.org/peterpan
> *How did that guy attract over 4 million peeps to his site?must be "magic" and a little bit of ferry dust.*


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## Arnold (Aug 15, 2003)

makes you wonder how Mudge knows of that site, huh?


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## OceanDude (Aug 15, 2003)




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## Rodrugg (Aug 15, 2003)

I would say Osh Kosh B'Gosh or Dickies.


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## OceanDude (Aug 15, 2003)

Re-looking at Paris's picture. What is that diagonal muscle that we can see on the left inner leg face. That can???t be the sartorius muscle can it? It seems to rise way too high above the quads too early instead of flowing into the inner thigh/hip region. Maybe its just the pose that pulls it up like that. In either the case ??? he is not well defined.


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## gopro (Aug 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by OceanDude *_
> Re-looking at Paris's picture. What is that diagonal muscle that we can see on the left inner leg face. That can???t be the sartorius muscle can it? It seems to rise way too high above the quads too early instead of flowing into the inner thigh/hip region. Maybe its just the pose that pulls it up like that. In either the case ??? he is not well defined.



Trust me, when Bob was in shape he was nearly flawless. One of the best in the sport ever.


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## gopro (Aug 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Rodrugg *_
> I would say Osh Kosh B'Gosh or Dickies.



Reveal thyself thine idiot!


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## Mudge (Aug 15, 2003)

The Peter Pan guy won some award in 2001 or something (Webbies) for I think weirdest website.


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## naturalguy (Aug 15, 2003)

unfortunately it seems that most people equate symmetry with smaller bodybuilders. Lee Haney was symmetrical and massive.

Other notables already mentioned: Shawn Ray, Flex & Lee Labrada


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## Mudge (Aug 15, 2003)

I would agree with that, todays bodybuilders dont have what I would call a "classic" physique, where 1980s guys weren't all that different from well developed late 60s guys.


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## gopro (Aug 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> I would agree with that, todays bodybuilders dont have what I would call a "classic" physique, where 1980s guys weren't all that different from well developed late 60s guys.



Hey Mudge...you think there wasn't much difference between Haney, Gaspari, Strydom, etc, form late 60s guys  

(I think you smokin some herb my man!)


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## OceanDude (Aug 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> I would agree with that, todays bodybuilders dont have what I would call a "classic" physique, where 1980s guys weren't all that different from well developed late 60s guys.



Hey, every time you say stuff like that about 60's guys one falls over and dies...


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## Mudge (Aug 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Hey Mudge...you think there wasn't much difference between Haney, Gaspari, Strydom, etc, form late 60s guys



I think the much bigger difference is Dorian and beyond, I think Haney was more chest than anything else as far as being a freak. If you look at Arnold's competition weight vs most of the 80s guys it was I'd say 10-15 pounds difference, now you have guys like Ruhl at 5'10" competing at 284, HUGE difference.


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## gopro (Aug 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> I think the much bigger difference is Dorian and beyond, I think Haney was more chest than anything else as far as being a freak. If you look at Arnold's competition weight vs most of the 80s guys it was I'd say 10-15 pounds difference, now you have guys like Ruhl at 5'10" competing at 284, HUGE difference.



Arnold was 6'2" and competed fairly ripped at 235 lbs. Haney was under 6' and competed at 245, much more shredded. Arnold would have gotten killed in mid to late eighties lineup. His legs were way under par in particular. And after Arnold, Sergio, and Lou, there were no heavywieghts to speak about.

Larry Scott would be laughed off the stage in his Olympia winning form if he competed against 1980s guys.


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## Mudge (Aug 15, 2003)

Yep, I remember Arnolds stats fairly well   Larry had the arms but I dont remember his chest being too spectaculaaaaaaarrrrrrr.


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## Arnold (Aug 15, 2003)

I think that Arnold's upper body could stand up to 80's and 90's bb, but his legs were most definitely under par.


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## Arnold (Aug 15, 2003)

*Albert Beckles*

Competitive Record (27 Years of competing!)

1992 Niagara Falls Pro Invitational - IFBB, 8th 
1992 Chicago Pro Invitational - IFBB, 16th
1991 San Jose Pro Invitational - IFBB, 5th 
1991 Pittsburgh Pro Invitational - IFBB, 12th 
1991 Olympia - IFBB, Didn't place
1991 Night of Champions - IFBB, 7th 
1991 Niagara Falls Pro Invitational - IFBB, Winner 
1991 Grand Prix Switzerland - IFBB, 8th
1991 Grand Prix Spain - IFBB, 9th 
1991 Grand Prix Italy - IFBB, 8th 
1991 Grand Prix Finland - IFBB, 9th 
1991 Grand Prix England - IFBB, 7th 
1991 Grand Prix Denmark - IFBB, 7th 
1990 Night of Champions - IFBB, Didn't place
1990 Niagara Falls Pro Invitational - IFBB, 12th 
1990 Houston Pro Invitational - IFBB, 11th 
1990 Arnold Classic - IFBB, 9th 
1989 World Pro Championships - IFBB, 4th
1989 Olympia - IFBB, 15th 
1989 Night of Champions - IFBB, 8th 
1989 Grand Prix US Pro - IFBB, 4th 
1989 Grand Prix Sweden - IFBB, 9th 
1989 Grand Prix Spain - IFBB, 10th 
1989 Grand Prix Spain (2) - IFBB, 10th 
1989 Grand Prix Melbourne - IFBB, 4th 
1989 Grand Prix Holland - IFBB, 11th 
1989 Grand Prix France - IFBB, 9th 
1989 Grand Prix Finland - IFBB, 9th 
1989 Grand Prix England - IFBB, 9th 
1989 Arnold Classic - IFBB, 7th
1988 World Pro Championships - IFBB, 10th 
1988 Olympia - IFBB, 15th 
1988 Night of Champions - IFBB, 5th 
1988 Grand Prix Spain - IFBB, 7th 
1988 Grand Prix Spain (2) - IFBB, 8th 
1988 Grand Prix Italy - IFBB, 8th 
1988 Grand Prix Germany - IFBB, 8th 
1988 Grand Prix France - IFBB, 11th 
1988 Grand Prix England - IFBB, 7th 
1988 Chicago Pro Invitational - IFBB, 4th 
1987 World Pro Championships - IFBB, 3rd 
1987 Olympia - IFBB, 7th 
1987 Grand Prix Germany - IFBB, 4th 
1987 Grand Prix Germany (2) - IFBB, 6th 
1987 Grand Prix France - IFBB, 4th 
1986 Olympia - IFBB, 4th 
1985 Olympia - IFBB, 2nd 
1985 Night of Champions - IFBB, Winner 
1984 World Pro Championships - IFBB, Winner 
1984 World Grand Prix - IFBB, Winner 
1984 Olympia - IFBB, 4th 
1984 Canada Pro Cup - IFBB, Winner
1983 Olympia - IFBB, 7th 
1983 Night of Champions - IFBB, 3rd 
1983 Grand Prix Switzerland - IFBB, 5th 
1983 Grand Prix Sweden - IFBB, 5th 
1983 Grand Prix Portland - IFBB, 4th 
1983 Grand Prix Las Vegas - IFBB, 3rd 
1983 Grand Prix England - IFBB, 5th 
1982 World Pro Championships - IFBB, Winner 
1982 Olympia - IFBB, 5th 
1982 Night of Champions - IFBB, Winner 
1982 Grand Prix Sweden - IFBB, 4th 
1982 Grand Prix Belgium - IFBB, 2nd 
1981 World Grand Prix - IFBB, 2nd 
1981 Professional World Cup - IFBB, 6th 
1981 Night of Champions - IFBB, 2nd 
1981 Grand Prix World Cup - IFBB, 6th 
1981 Grand Prix Wales - IFBB, 3rd 
1981 Grand Prix New York - IFBB, 2nd 
1981 Grand Prix New England - IFBB, Winner 
1981 Grand Prix Massachusets - IFBB, 2nd 
1981 Grand Prix Louisiana - IFBB, 2nd 
1981 Grand Prix California - IFBB, 4th 
1981 Grand Prix Belgium - IFBB, 2nd 
1981 Canada Pro Cup - IFBB, 2nd 
1980 World Pro Championships - IFBB, 4th 
1980 Universe - Pro - IFBB, 4th 
1979 World Pro Championships - IFBB, 2nd 
1979 Olympia - IFBB, LightWeight, 7th 
1979 Grand Prix Pennsylvania - IFBB, 3rd 
1979 Best in the World - IFBB, Professional, 3rd 
1978 Olympia - IFBB, LightWeight, 8th 
1977 Olympia - IFBB, Short, 4th 
1977 Olympia - IFBB, 7th 
1975 Universe - IFBB, Medium, 2nd 
1975 Olympia - IFBB, LightWeight, 3rd 
1973 Universe - IFBB, Medium, 1st 
1973 Mr Europe - IFBB, Medium, 1st 
1973 Mr Europe - IFBB, Overall Winner 
1971 Universe - NABBA, Medium, 1st 
1971 Universe - IFBB, Medium, 1st 
1971 Universe - IFBB, Overall Winner 
1971 Mr World - AAU, Most Muscular, 1st 
1971 Mr World - AAU, Medium, 1st 
1971 Mr World - AAU, Winner 
1971 Mr Britain - NABBA, Winner 
1970 Universe - NABBA, Medium, 2nd 
1970 Mr Europe, Medium, 1st 
1970 Mr Europe, Overall Winner 
1970 Mr Britain - NABBA, Winner 
1969 Universe - NABBA, Medium, 3rd 
1969 Mr World - IFBB, Medium, 2nd 
1969 Mr Britain - NABBA, 2nd 
1968 Mr Britain - NABBA, 2nd 
1967 Universe - NABBA, Medium, 1st 
1967 Mr Britain - NABBA, 3rd 
1966 Universe - NABBA, Medium, 6th 
1965 Universe - NABBA, Medium, 3rd 
1965 Mr Britain - NABBA, 5th


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## Mudge (Aug 15, 2003)

Arnold looked a little smallish in 1980, but 60s-70s yeah, I thought he was awesome.


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## oaktownboy (Aug 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> The Peter Pan guy won some award in 2001 or something (Webbies) for I think weirdest website.
> *Now, how on Earth would you know that?*


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## Mudge (Aug 15, 2003)

I work with computers, so I find out about computer related things from time to time, and I rarely forget anything (even if it becomes mangled in my brain somewhat). He should have won around 2001 or 2002? Probably says on his website, but I had seen his site originally in 99 I believe from some fellow co-workers and it had me rolling for about a week.


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## gopro (Aug 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> *Albert Beckles*
> 
> Competitive Record (27 Years of competing!)
> ...



You aren't saying he was the most symmetrical though, are you? You know who had nice "symmetry?" Samir Bannout in 1983 and also Mohammed Makkoway (sp?).


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## Arnold (Aug 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> You aren't saying he was the most symmetrical though, are you? You know who had nice "symmetry?" Samir Bannout in 1983 and also Mohammed Makkoway (sp?).



No, but that is one impressive record!


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## rogerc (Aug 18, 2003)

*Light in the loafers???*

In regards to the derogatory comments regarding Bob Paris. Is this a breeding grounds for homophobes? If so, that is fine with me, but I'll just unenroll and ask for my ten bucks back. 

Whew. Glad I only have one other post. 

Thanks....


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## OceanDude (Aug 18, 2003)

Hey rogerc. This is an adult board where everyone has their own opinions and a lot of the conventional thinking about body building is openly debunked and debated. It's a lively collection of people including mavericks, anti-establishment types, intellectuals, dumb asses, conservatives, liberals, moral, amoral, politically correct as well as free thinkers. So like life in the real world expect a wide range of diverse opinions without a lot of Politically Correct censorship. If that???s too hard to deal with ??? I suggest you might be more happy going to Disney World on a day of the year that is most appealing to you. Since you are bound to run into some frustration here.


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## asiansensation (May 21, 2005)

Lee Labrada wihout a doubt! I met him once in NYC. A very nice guy and a successful businessman.


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## GFR (May 21, 2005)

dg806 said:
			
		

> Frank is 60 now!


Zane was born in 1942 ( makes him around 63), so I think it's unfair to compare him to Levrone or Ray who both were still competing and on Massive HGH ect. at the time of the TV show, Zane is natural now and not trying to be Mr Olympia ect.
Zane has it over Labrada, both are great but Lee was thick in the waist compared to Zane and also very short and blocky.


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## GFR (May 21, 2005)

gopro said:
			
		

> Arnold was 6'2" and competed fairly ripped at 235 lbs. Haney was under 6' and competed at 245, much more shredded. Arnold would have gotten killed in mid to late eighties lineup. His legs were way under par in particular. And after Arnold, Sergio, and Lou, there were no heavywieghts to speak about.
> 
> Larry Scott would be laughed off the stage in his Olympia winning form if he competed against 1980s guys.



You simply can't compare different generations of bodybuilders like that. Arnold and the other bodybuilders of his time were not using GH and all the newer drugs like Haney and the bodybuilders of today ( 1983 Haney was 230, 1984 Haney was 249...wow thats some hard work...GH) Sergio and Arnold would still most likely be the best in the 80's or now if that was the time in which they were in their prime. Just like Ali would still most likely be #1  in Boxing if he was 25 years old and fighting now.


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## musclepump (May 21, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> You simply can't compare different generations of bodybuilders like that. Arnold and the other bodybuilders of his time were not using GH and all the newer drugs like Haney and the bodybuilders of today ( 1983 Haney was 230, 1984 Haney was 249...wow thats some hard work...GH) Sergio and Arnold would still most likely be the best in the 80's or now if that was the time in which they were in their prime. Just like Ali would still most likely be #1 in Boxing if he was 25 years old and fighting now.


 I would think more insulin than GH. GH is a very slow moving process; doubt it's worth 19 pounds in a year.


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## GFR (May 21, 2005)

musclepump said:
			
		

> I would think more insulin than GH. GH is a very slow moving process; doubt it's worth 19 pounds in a year.


I have never used either so I don't know, all I'm saying is 1975 compared to 2005 is about 50lbs of new drugs...at least.


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## VipeR (May 22, 2005)

call me crazy, but i think coleman has nice symmetry aswell


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## GFR (May 26, 2005)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> I think that Arnold's upper body could stand up to 80's and 90's bb, but his legs were most definitely under par.



Arnold did whatever it took to win. After his defeat in 1968 to Zane Arnold did what no bodybuilder had ever done. He got ripped and huge, and in his day his legs were fine. Jump to 1980+ "if"  bodybuilding was all Arnold had, he would of destroyed Haney ( as even Weider said). At 237 in 1974, Arnold would have blown up like haney did in 1984 ( Haney was reported to be 230 in 1983, and 248 in 1984...reported...more like 220 and 235). Arnold would have used modern sports medicine and competed at 255 or more in the 1980-1990.


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## The Monkey Man (May 26, 2005)

dg806 said:
			
		

> Who had the best overall symmetry of all bodybuilders?
> I'm gonna have to go with Frank Zane!


Sergio Oliva, Shawn Ray, Lee Labrada, Paul Dillett


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