# Chin ups / help with bicep growth



## themamasan (Dec 17, 2007)

Okay, my biceps look like they are from a little 12 year old girl.  I don't know why.  I am fairly strong with curls and rows, my triceps are big, shoulders big, etc.  

The only thing I can come up with is that I am weak in chin ups.  I weigh 250lbs and can do 6-7 on my own, but my biceps never get a pump, and they never get sore.  Every other muscle involved will be sore, but never my biceps.

So I am wondering if for whatever reason, my other muscles are doing all the work, and leaving my biceps to be lazy.  If this is true, should I pre-exhaust my back muscles by doing rows and such, and then do chin-ups last? And will this cause my biceps to do most of the work and thus grow bigger over time.  I currently do chin-ups as the very first exercise when I do back/bi workout.

And I am assuming that most people agree chin-ups are the best/one of the best bicep exercises out there.


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## Hoglander (Dec 17, 2007)

If you are so fixated on the bicep.. just isolate the bicep at end of your pulls.

IMHO, I would suggest laying on a bench propped up at 45 degrees hanging your arms down with dumbbells you can curl for 5-8 reps max.


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## AKIRA (Dec 17, 2007)

So do you want to gain mass or get a "pump?"

If you want a pump, do a shit load of curls.  If you want them to grow, do more than 6-7 chin ups for starters, but ...no Ill start from scratch.

Pre exhausting your back isnt going to do anything but..pre exhaust your BACK.  Also, if you do rows, your biceps are going to be working big time too!  Anytime the elbow is flexing, the bicep is put to work.  The elbow flexes on rows, chin ups, and curls.

When you take that into consideration, think about how many times you use your bicep.  You may be over working it.

Plus...I know it feels good to have a pump and to be sore, but its not necessary for growth, so is it necessary to worry about it?


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## Hoglander (Dec 17, 2007)

"...Every other muscle involved will be sore, but never my biceps...." 

No such thing as overworking just over training, train smart.


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## AKIRA (Dec 17, 2007)

Semantics...


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## themamasan (Dec 17, 2007)

Well, I don't know if it is true or not, but for me if my muscles don't get a pump to it when I am working out, I feel like they aren't doing anything enough work.

When I do isolation work for biceps, they get a pump, and they feel fatigued.  But when I do chin-ups, rows, etc., they don't feel fatigued.  Yet, it seems to be common knowledge that those compound exercises are what makes the bicep grow.  But I can't get the damn things to grow either way I go.

Should I add weight assistance to my chin-ups and do more than 6-7 reps?  Maybe at a slower, more controlled pace?  I have basically been the same strength level on chin-ups for about a year now, and can't get over the hump, and feel like my biceps strength is what is holding me back.


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## Gazhole (Dec 18, 2007)

The pump means nothing. It is just blood rushing to an area that needs it, to function.

If you say you've tried "everything" to make your biceps grow, then that leads me to believe your diet isnt geared towards mass gain. Caloric surplus is what makes you grow.

Then again, you shouldnt really concentrate on your biceps. They are a small muscle, probably the smallest in the upper body. Dont worry about them. Concentrate on overall development and they will grow to suit. Ive never seen anybody with a large overall upper body and small arms.

Dont worry about the pump in the gym, dont even worry about fatigue in the gym too much, fatigue can happen for a number of reasons (lack of sleep, not enough energy from food etc etc). I can do the same workout on two separate days, one day itll be easy as hell and ill blast through it, another day it seems like an uphill struggle.

Just keep consistant, use the big lifts, and eat a lot. For the love of god stop overthinking this stuff, thats really all there is to it.


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## Witchblade (Dec 18, 2007)

For all you nonbelievers who think your biceps (or whatever other bodypart) isn't fatiguing from compound work, set an 8RM for preacher curls. Next day, do a set of chin-ups to failure and a set of rows to failure. Now try to get your 8RM at the preacher curls again.


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## Minhkey (Dec 18, 2007)

whats 8RM?


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## highpockets (Dec 18, 2007)

I agree with everything stated above. In addition I believe in diversity. Keep changing your routine so your muscles never know what's coming. Here is another exercise that will give you a good pump and build strength. Standing alternating dumbell curls with weight that you can manage 7-8 reps. On the first rep with one arm, stop the weight when your elbow is at a 90 degree angle with the weight in front of you. Do 7-8 reps with your other arm while holding your first arm in the isometric position. Switch arms, holding the arm you just did your repititions with in the 90 degree isometric position. This should give you a super pump and done with the correct weight will make your arms feel like dropping off. I also like reverse grip barbell curls with an e-z bar at the end of my bicep workout.


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## Witchblade (Dec 18, 2007)

8 repetition maximum


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## fUnc17 (Dec 18, 2007)

highpockets said:


> I agree with everything stated above. In addition I believe in diversity. Keep changing your routine so your muscles never know what's coming. Here is another exercise that will give you a good pump and build strength. Standing alternating dumbell curls with weight that you can manage 7-8 reps. On the first rep with one arm, stop the weight when your elbow is at a 90 degree angle with the weight in front of you. Do 7-8 reps with your other arm while holding your first arm in the isometric position. Switch arms, holding the arm you just did your repititions with in the 90 degree isometric position. This should give you a super pump and done with the correct weight will make your arms feel like dropping off. I also like reverse grip barbell curls with an e-z bar at the end of my bicep workout.



No. Increase calories and increase your pullup #'s

If you can manage 7 reps, do 2-3 a day. In a month, take a few days off and test your max. You will be pleasantly suprised.


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## ABLQ2 (Dec 19, 2007)

If you are want to prioritize your biceps when doing chins, isolate THEM first [not your back].  example:  do a set of perfect form curls with a light/moderate weight followed immediately by chins.  your back will loose some of the work, but your biceps will be smashed.  Also, you state that your curls are strong but your biceps are small.  there are two things here that make me curious.....
1)  are you progressing the weight?  if not- your biceps will never grow.
2)  do you keep constant tension on the bicep throughout the entire set?   this is a trick i learned that helps out tremendously.  it is easy to forget that at the top of a free-weight curl, gravity is not working to stress your muscle.  i focus on the lower 3/4 of the curl movement...also, remember to lower the weight to complete extension.  the initial part of the curl (or chin for that matter) is when your biceps are in their weakest  position.     use this to your advantage, because it means good things for increasing contractile intensity in the muscle! 

the most important tip i can give is to remember the mind/muscle connection.  IF you focus hard on hitting your biceps and feeling the movement in THOSE muscles, you will see tremendous progress.  muscle growth is induced by intensity of contraction.  j*ust try to make your biceps contract as hard as you can.*


p.s.  sorry if none of my advice applies.  I would have to see how you train to make ungeneralized suggestions.  GL


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