# Atkins Diet



## ajustana (Oct 23, 2003)

Hopefully this hasn't been talked about too much already.

My brother got the Atkins book and has had a ton of success with the diet, as have many others that I know.  Doesn't it seem logical that one will get a lot of protein from this diet and therefore lose weight but retain muscle?

What are your thoughts?


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## Burner02 (Oct 23, 2003)

that's only part of it.
True, you will be taking in much protein.
However, you will be depleting your body of carbs and go on a deficeit. (sp)
when your 'diet' is over..and you introduce carbs back into your body, the will be soaked in and weight goes back on.Imagine a dry sponge put in a container of water. The sponge soakes it all up and expands.
Tis will happen to your brother, your friends, whoever goes abck and takes in carbs.
Would be better to monitor and reduce / cycle your carbs, instead of Atkins..


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## ajustana (Oct 23, 2003)

Well, it seems to me that there are two different diets:

1) Those who have read that actual Atkins book and understand good carbs bad carbs, introducing them back in and changing an overall lifestyle.

2) Those who think that the Atkins diet is - Eat No Carbs


People who read the book understand that Dr. Atkins understood which carbs were better than others.


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## Arnold (Oct 23, 2003)

whether you do an Atkins or Ketogenic, personally I see them as a short term diet, they can definitely help you shed bf, but I would not use a diet like that long term.


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## naturalguy (Oct 23, 2003)

The atkins and programs like it are not for bodybuilders! They are designed for sedentary people and are a short term diet.


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## Arnold (Oct 23, 2003)

Ketogenic diets can work for a bodybuilder during a cutting cycle.


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## BUSTINOUT (Oct 23, 2003)

I agree with Prince.  Keto diets work very well for bbers when cycled properly.  On the other hand, long term keto diets are not necessarily healthy for sedentary people either.  It requires a balanced lifestyle change.  And I do NOT agree with the philosophy that ALL the weight comes back on when carbs are reintroduced.


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## BabsieGirl (Oct 23, 2003)

What is Keto dieting


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## naturalguy (Oct 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> Ketogenic diets can work for a bodybuilder during a cutting cycle.




Not for natural bodybuilders...................if they want to keep their muscle. They are too risky for naturals, there are so many better diets than keto for naturals.


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## ZECH (Oct 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> What is Keto dieting


a CKD (cyclo-ketonic-diet) is simply a diet that consists of two cycles: low/no-carbohydrates and high-carbohydrates.  A Ketonic diet is something that we all hear from Atkins, which is basically High-Fat, Moderate-Protein and Low/No-Carbs. Yet, this type of diet, although very effective for the average Joe, is not sufficient for a bodybuilder???s (weightlifter???s) needs. 
Why? Well, once your muscle glycogen is depleted, your workouts become a pain in the ass, you are sluggish and muscle loss can occur. (due to the fact that no insulin is present in the system, there will be NO muscle gain while in Ketosis) Because, the main goal of Ketosis is to have no glycogen in the liver so glucagon can be released. Basically, it all boils down to the following: Day 1-6 you eat High-Fat/Moderate-Protein/Low-No-Carbohydrates, then Day 7 you eat HIGH-GI carbohydrates and low-fat, in order to achieve supercompensation and refill muscle glycogen. (this will ensure quality training throughout every CKD cycle you do) 
If you are following a CKD then you need to do a Refeed not a carb-up. You cannot eat just veggies. Veggies do not have enough effective carbs in it to re-fill glycogen.


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## BabsieGirl (Oct 24, 2003)

Awww...Thanks Dg for your help.


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## FatGuy (Oct 24, 2003)

unless you read Atkins'  new revised edition book, you shouldnt comment on his diet.  atkins helped me lost 25 lbs barely working out at all.
now that i am sort of bodybuilding, i need more carbs to get better workouts.  so i am moving away from the low carb model.  i gained all my weight on a carb only diet and inactivity.

there are 4 stages of atkins diet program.  you start off the first 2 weeks taking in no carbs, then progress along the remaining 3, re-introducing the right carbs for maintenance.  

most BB'ers have done atkins principles in one way or another.


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## BabsieGirl (Oct 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by FatGuy *_
> most BB'ers have done atkins principles in one way or another.




I agree only with this comment


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## ZECH (Oct 24, 2003)

You still have to understand what type of carbs to eat! Give me an example of a slow release carb!


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## Nigeepoo (Oct 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> The atkins and programs like it are not for bodybuilders! They are designed for sedentary people and are a short term diet.


Yes, yes and no. I've been on Atkins for 6.25 years. As I am IR with compensatory hyperinsulinaemia, I intend to stay on it for the rest of my life. My carb intake varies with activity level. Barry and Monica Groves have been low-carbing for 43 years. Dr Richard K Bernstein, for 30 years. Ray Audette, for 18 years. Jonathan Christie, for 14 years.

If it ain't broke..........


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## katie64 (Oct 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> a CKD (cyclo-ketonic-diet) is simply a diet that consists of two cycles: low/no-carbohydrates and high-carbohydrates.  A Ketonic diet is something that we all hear from Atkins, which is basically High-Fat, Moderate-Protein and Low/No-Carbs. Yet, this type of diet, although very effective for the average Joe, is not sufficient for a bodybuilder???s (weightlifter???s) needs.
> Why? Well, once your muscle glycogen is depleted, your workouts become a pain in the ass, you are sluggish and muscle loss can occur. (due to the fact that no insulin is present in the system, there will be NO muscle gain while in Ketosis) Because, the main goal of Ketosis is to have no glycogen in the liver so glucagon can be released. Basically, it all boils down to the following: Day 1-6 you eat High-Fat/Moderate-Protein/Low-No-Carbohydrates, then Day 7 you eat HIGH-GI carbohydrates and low-fat, in order to achieve supercompensation and refill muscle glycogen. (this will ensure quality training throughout every CKD cycle you do)
> If you are following a CKD then you need to do a Refeed not a carb-up. You cannot eat just veggies. Veggies do not have enough effective carbs in it to re-fill glycogen.


Are you sure about that Dave, I do keto and I only take in maybe 10g of carbs a day, moderate fat and high protein, I do 13 days of this and then one day of carb up, last meal of that day, when I reach close to my goal I'll switch it to carb cycling(maybe), although carbs make me feel yucky, here's a couple of links;

Summary-Keto 

Ketogenic Diet 

And here's another one listing different types of diets. I haven't done alot of research at this last site.

BB Diet


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## katie64 (Oct 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> The atkins and programs like it are not for bodybuilders! They are designed for sedentary people and are a short term diet.


I don't believe this to be true at all..............


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## naturalguy (Oct 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by katie64 *_
> I don't believe this to be true at all..............




Because?


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## katie64 (Oct 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> Because?


Because I am not a sedentary person, I weight train and it works for me, I do a ketogenic diet, similar to Atkins but I also carb up and change my diet when I'm tired to meet my nutritional needs........when I say something it only applies to me and what I have experienced....................


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## nikegurl (Oct 24, 2003)

are you trying to increase your muscle mass at all katie?

i vary my eating plans and have done well when i low carb with a carb up every 4th day (keeping carbs at 30 g a day on non carb days) with moderate fat (efas) and about 1.5 g protein per lb bodyweight.  that works well for me.  (probably not so well for others).

again, only speaking for myself, i can't imagine trying to maintain or gain muscle with carbs only every 13 days.


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## FatGuy (Oct 24, 2003)

the only problem i had with atkins was weakness when i lifted and constipation.   other than that, low carb worked well with me

i now eat about 100g a day of the right catbs.   usually i eat 1/2 cup of oats, 1/2 cup of fiber onecereal, a cup of brown rice, and lots of veggies.  (i hope thats 100g).ill have an apple every few days.

i am trying to burn fat.   i take in the carbs because i do cardio every day for 30 mins   with a day off here and there


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## nikegurl (Oct 24, 2003)

we all vary so much in our bodies and our goals.  to me weakness when i lift would be a huge and unaccepatable problem.  i can continue to increase my strength while i cut if i carb up every 4th day.  if i found my lifts dropping i don't think i'd be able to hang with the eating plan.


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## FatGuy (Oct 24, 2003)

i couldnt stand the constipation.  i might be lifting more now on carbs because i gained a lot of muscle and got stronger.  sorry to be gross but i didnt pass a lot of gas when i was on atkins.  when on moderate carbs, i am legendary.

 

atkins is good for a sedentary lifestyle, or someone who can't weight train for 2 hours/day. (there are actually people who arent lucky to have 2 hours/day to spend in a gym, we should consider ourselves lucky)

atkins is definately not for bodybuilders.


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## katie64 (Oct 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> are you trying to increase your muscle mass at all katie?
> 
> i vary my eating plans and have done well when i low carb with a carb up every 4th day (keeping carbs at 30 g a day on non carb days) with moderate fat (efas) and about 1.5 g protein per lb bodyweight.  that works well for me.  (probably not so well for others).
> ...


I was doing that way of a nutritional diet for a couple of months, lost 10lbs, then stalled, which brought my research to the keto, lost another 20lbs, I am not purposefully trying to increase muscle mass, more of w8 loss and strengthening at this point, I am quite muscular just soft, not too bad now as in the beginning but I still have a ways to go..................

And I can maintain this for 4 to 6 weeks then I tend to have an extra carb up day or two, then I start it again............


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## katie64 (Oct 24, 2003)

As I said before, when I become closer to my goals, I will change it up and go back to what NG is talking about or do the carb cycling, either way it will be healthy, and at this point "my plan" will be to increase muscle mass............one thing at a time for me I guess........


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## kdwa1 (Oct 24, 2003)

A couple years ago I read the book" Protein Power" by Michael & Mary Eades and followed it strictly for a long time.Which means I was on low almost no carbs.Lets say under 50 g's per day for almost two years.I lost fat and muscle but stayed strong.Now I'm cycling carbs and feeling more solid ,also burning fat more efficiently.
I agree with Prince that these super low carb diets can be useful for cutting cycles but not long term.We just need to learn how to manage our carbs and eat the right ones.
If ya wanna get cut use lighter weights and do higher reps.Cheers!


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## HoldDaMayo (Oct 25, 2003)

I tried low carb... but it ended up I was eating very few calories... I lost some weight but hit a very early plateau where I had slowed my metabolism down too much... after switching to 5-6 meals a day and just watching the portions and using 2 MRP's a day... I find I have WAY more energy and have much more success when it comes to lifting...


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## naturalguy (Oct 26, 2003)

Here is why atkins is not for bodybuilders..............You cannot give your best effort in the gym. It comprimises your workout. I have heard people say that they feel fine however if you experiment on your self, do atkins for a month and then eat the right carbs at the right time for a month, you will be much stronger in the gym, you will recover better and have much more energy to train harder.


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## rte617 (Nov 1, 2003)

I've been on the induction phase of the Atkins diet for a year and a half now. I 've lost about 45 to 50 pounds....without one single workout. I started lifting 2 months ago and put on 7 pounds.....and there ain't NO question its muscle. From what I've read in this forum and other books....that just shouldn't happen, but it did for me. Guess it goes to show that everyone is a little different. I've now switched to consuming the "good carbs" and it seems to be going great. Just my 2 cents worth on the subject. By the way....hi...my name is Randy and this is my first post here. Thank all of you for this great forum where a greenhorn can get great tips from experts without having to pay.


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## sYkboY (Dec 6, 2003)

rte617, I too am new to the forum and I have just recently started the induction phase after reading and article in M&F stating that in a recent study of several "normal weight" men over 6 weeks on the diet they lost an ave. of 7 lbs and GAINED 3 lbs of muscle, without lifting a weight!  I, however, have been lifting from day one of induction and have LOST a little lean mass, but, nowhere near what I might expect to lose on a normal diet.  My lean mass seems to be on its way back up now, though.  I realize it is going to fluctuate.  I started on the 17 of Nov. and of course blew it on thanks giving but I planned to do that anyway, as I plan to blow it on Christmas as well.

So far(3 weeks) I am down to 258.8 and have lost nearly 2 perc. points of body fat.  Not great but not bad, I suppose.

I started doing a full body 3 days a week but didn't feel like I was really hitting any area enough.  I knew having no carbs I needed to make some adjustments to get the kind of muscle irritation I wanted while not having the energy to work every group to its full extent and now I am just doing a body part a day.  I have been trying to add strength initially and let the mass come later.  So far it seems to be working for me.

Any suggestions or insight anyone may have would be welcome.

Thanks,
SyK


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 6, 2003)

1)Everyone is different so there really is no rule to go by.

2)Given the proper time to adapt, NEARLY everyone can be as strong on no carbs as with carbs.

Before anyone goes to comment on number 2, let's just take something into consideration.  A large portion of use are 25 or over.  So let's say you just start a keto diet today.  Very few people last more than a week on the low carbs.  They get nauseaous, tired, etc.  You are going to tell me that you can deprogram your body, which has been using carbs as a fuel source, in a week, come on now.    I have done CKDs and the like many times.  For me, personally, after a month my strength goes back to baseline after about 3-4 weeks of being significantly weaker.  This weakness is not attributable to muscle loss, trather, it is attributable to the inability to make the energy required for a workout.  Eventually, after a good break-in, your body will become more efficient at using this energy via better enzymatic activity and you should be right back at where you were at strength-wise, with a considerable drop in fat mass.


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## rte617 (Dec 6, 2003)

skyboy...i had been on an atkins type diet for over a year.  lost 55 pounds and kept it off for a year now. in the beginning, i did no exercise...then to add muscle and gain weight back i started lifting. it went ok in the beginning with quick gains....then i found by adding ONLY complex carbs, that it gave me much better workouts AND huge pumps...which feels great.  good thing is....if you eat those carbs all before your workout.....you will still lose fat swiftly AND gain muscle mass.  i know it's different for everyone, but for me....it has changed my life.  i finally am not ashamed to take my shirt off in front of my wife. also....i noticed faster results by doing 2 body parts per workout.......again....that worked for me. keep on truckin' brother.....it feels so good to feel sooooo good!!!


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## Jodi (Dec 6, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by rte617 *_
> I started lifting 2 months ago and put on 7 pounds.....and there ain't NO question its muscle. From what I've read in this forum and other books....that just shouldn't happen, but it did for me.


There is an explanation for that.  The majority of newbies to weight lifting will gain muscle during their first few months regardless of caloric or carbohydrate intake.  Although, I did not do Atkins and never will, one of my first diets was CKD and I lost a considerable amount of fat and GAINED a considerable amount of muscle on this type of diet.  That was over 5 years ago.


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## Power Rabbit (Dec 6, 2003)

Ive watched two people on atkins pass out on a treadmill from not havin proper carbs. Not sure bout the gaining strength back after awhile but it seems to me it would be safer to use ol "vitamin E"(Ephedra) than deprive my body from a pretty basic food need.. i aint no dietition though, so its just my opinion


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## mattymo (Jan 6, 2004)

*new guy*

whatup guys and gals?  I have a question that needs your expertise.  I've been a natural powerlifter for about 5 years now, so all I know how to do is BULK UP. I've always said, "MASS MOVES  MASS."  I'm 5'8" and 235 pounds. I've hit all the strength goals I want to hit.  My joints, ligaments, and tendons all hurt because of years of powerlifting abuse.  Now I want to switch to a bodybuilding program and cut some(a lot) fat.  I don't mind losing strength, because I know it will happen just because I'm not doing powerlifting routines anymore which are completely different than bodybuilding routines.  What I want to know is, what kind of diet would work best if I want to cut down to about 200 pounds quickly.  I know I'll lose strength, but I don't want to become a little wuss either. I was thinking of some variation of atkins as I know that bodybuilders do some variation of carb cutting before contests.  Let me know what you think.


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## katie64 (Jan 6, 2004)

*Re: new guy*



> _*Originally posted by mattymo *_
> whatup guys and gals?  I have a question that needs your expertise.  I've been a natural powerlifter for about 5 years now, so all I know how to do is BULK UP. I've always said, "MASS MOVES  MASS."  I'm 5'8" and 235 pounds. I've hit all the strength goals I want to hit.  My joints, ligaments, and tendons all hurt because of years of powerlifting abuse.  Now I want to switch to a bodybuilding program and cut some(a lot) fat.  I don't mind losing strength, because I know it will happen just because I'm not doing powerlifting routines anymore which are completely different than bodybuilding routines.  What I want to know is, what kind of diet would work best if I want to cut down to about 200 pounds quickly.  I know I'll lose strength, but I don't want to become a little wuss either. I was thinking of some variation of atkins as I know that bodybuilders do some variation of carb cutting before contests.  Let me know what you think.


Sticky on Cutting, etc.


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## mattymo (Jan 6, 2004)

Thanks Katie..you rock!


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## katie64 (Jan 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by mattymo *_
> Thanks Katie..you rock!


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