# 1AD 4AD cycle length.



## Mikes1 (Dec 14, 2002)

I'm thinking of ordering my next cycle, which is going to be 1ad and 4ad or 1,4 andro.
Each bottle lasts 20 days.
For a 4 week cycle i need 1.5 bottles. 
My question is should i do a 1 month cycle or 40 days?
If i do 1 month, i'll have to get 3 bottles so that i have enough for 2 cycles and if i do 40 days i need 2 bottles for 1 cycle.

I'm going to use 1 bottle of 6 oxo post cycle, at 4 pills a day.
Does the 40 day cycle need more 6 oxo?

Thanks,

Mike


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## gopro (Dec 14, 2002)

I wouldn't go past 6 straight weeks on prohormones. I think 6 weeks is perfect for a cycle. Post cycle you should be on a test booster and/or estrogen reducer for about 4 weeks. I would then take another 2 weeks after that to return to prohormones.


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## LILFLEX (Dec 14, 2002)

Gopro is exactly right


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## olusco (Jan 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Mikes1 *_
> I'm thinking of ordering my next cycle, which is going to be 1ad and 4ad or 1,4 andro.
> Each bottle lasts 20 days.
> For a 4 week cycle i need 1.5 bottles.
> ...



i have Biotest 500. Do i need anti-estrogen or 6 oxo. I do not understand.


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## olusco (Jan 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> I wouldn't go past 6 straight weeks on prohormones. I think 6 weeks is perfect for a cycle. Post cycle you should be on a test booster and/or estrogen reducer for about 4 weeks. I would then take another 2 weeks after that to return to prohormones.



I do not understand the testos. Do one need the 6 oxo to combat the estrogen or is not needed.


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## Mudge (Jan 20, 2003)

I dont understand the cycle length of only 4-6 weeks, is it because the legal recouperation stuff isn't as good as otherwise?

Except in Europe I haven't heard of any real 4-6 week cycles unless they are very hard hitting.


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## ZECH (Jan 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> I dont understand the cycle length of only 4-6 weeks, is it because the legal recouperation stuff isn't as good as otherwise?
> 
> Except in Europe I haven't heard of any real 4-6 week cycles unless they are very hard hitting.


Probably.............6-oxo is the best product out right now that is legal to use for estrogen reduction. And I would think that PH's are pretty close in the way they affect your estrogen/test level. They seem to hit me hard, although I take higher doses too. It usually takes me about 2 months to recover at least.
Formastat has been talked up good also!


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## olusco (Jan 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Probably.............6-oxo is the best product out right now that is legal to use for estrogen reduction. And I would think that PH's are pretty close in the way they affect your estrogen/test level. They seem to hit me hard, although I take higher doses too. It usually takes me about 2 months to recover at least.
> Formastat has been talked up good also!



My question is that i am thinking of taking the Biotest 500. Am going to gain like some lbs or should get the one you mentioned pro-homone?. And the 6 oxo to combat the anti-estrogen.
Looking for gaining


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## ZECH (Jan 20, 2003)

Tribex is good for raising libido, but not strong enough for gaining mass muscle. A PH would be better. And it depends on which one you take and for how long if you need a suicide or aromatase inhibitor, such as 6-0x0 or formastat.


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## olusco (Jan 20, 2003)

I am going to forget the Biotest. I have the pinacle the ANDRO-150 POPPER -pinacle that I bought about some weeks ago. I do not know if it is okay or not. One of the GNC sales person recommended it.


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## Mudge (Jan 20, 2003)

I wonder how they work in estrogen reduction, blocking, antagonist, flat out blocking or what.


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## gopro (Jan 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> I wonder how they work in estrogen reduction, blocking, antagonist, flat out blocking or what.



Wondering about which products?


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## olusco (Jan 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Wondering about which products?


I was wondering if  the product I bought is of good quality to add 10 lbs 150 ANDRO POPPER-pinacle and do  I need 6 oxo for the estrogen. I am compelating of getting testosterone like Botest and NO2 for the pumping. Opinoion appreciated.


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## gopro (Jan 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by olusco *_
> I was wondering if  the product I bought is of good quality to add 10 lbs 150 ANDRO POPPER-pinacle and do  I need 6 oxo for the estrogen. I am compelating of getting testosterone like Botest and NO2 for the pumping. Opinoion appreciated.



I was actually directing my question toward Mudge. However, let me answer to your query.

I don't think that ANDRO POPPERS are the best PHs on the market, but its still a decent product. The 6-OXO combined with the Tribex would be good to use after you POPPER cycle to help maintain gains.

As for the N02...the jury is still out on it. I wouldn't bother with it at this time.


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## Mudge (Jan 21, 2003)

Ahh, GP, I was wondering what of any of the estrogen "blockers" on the legal market do, maybe they dont work the same etc but why is it in general the cycles are shorter is what I commented on and supposedly its due to not as good post cycle recover goodies?


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## olusco (Jan 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> I was actually directing my question toward Mudge. However, let me answer to your query.
> 
> I don't think that ANDRO POPPERS are the best PHs on the market, but its still a decent product. The 6-OXO combined with the Tribex would be good to use after you POPPER cycle to help maintain gains.
> ...



Thanks for that clarification GP. Could you please tell me what kind of PH that are of good quality after my cycle and I would  prepare myself.


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## Wolfpack22 (Jan 21, 2003)

1-AD says it does not aromatize estrogens.  So why do you need an anti-estrogen to follow it?  And I also remember someone saying take 1-AD with Flax oil.  Will the Flax oil gel cap do any good?  Also if you do a 1-AD/4-AD cycle should you use AST's version of 4 AD or Ergopharm's version?


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## gopro (Jan 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> Ahh, GP, I was wondering what of any of the estrogen "blockers" on the legal market do, maybe they dont work the same etc but why is it in general the cycles are shorter is what I commented on and supposedly its due to not as good post cycle recover goodies?



Certainly the legal estrogen blockers/inhibiters are not nearly as potent as clomid, HCG, nolvadex, arimidex, etc. PH cycle length is something that is based mostly on antecdotal evidence, but 6-8 weeks seems to work best. From what I've seen, gains begin to diminish at around 6 weeks with most PHs. Upping the dose is an option, but then the chance of sides increase. Plus, the PHs aren't cheap and high doses are hard on the wallet.

I personally believe in shorter but more frequent cycles.


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## gopro (Jan 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by olusco *_
> Thanks for that clarification GP. Could you please tell me what kind of PH that are of good quality after my cycle and I would  prepare myself.



A quality 1-TEST...a quality 1-AD...a quality 4-AD are still the best out there.


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## gopro (Jan 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Wolfpack22 *_
> 1-AD says it does not aromatize estrogens.  So why do you need an anti-estrogen to follow it?  And I also remember someone saying take 1-AD with Flax oil.  Will the Flax oil gel cap do any good?  Also if you do a 1-AD/4-AD cycle should you use AST's version of 4 AD or Ergopharm's version?



You don't need an anti-estrogen with 1-AD, just a test booster.

Flax oil is helpful with absorbtion of 1-test and 4-ad. Some companies have pre-made gel caps now.

Use Ergopharm over AST.


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## ZECH (Jan 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Certainly the legal estrogen blockers/inhibiters are not nearly as potent as clomid, HCG, nolvadex, arimidex, etc. PH cycle length is something that is based mostly on antecdotal evidence, but 6-8 weeks seems to work best. From what I've seen, gains begin to diminish at around 6 weeks with most PHs. Upping the dose is an option, but then the chance of sides increase. Plus, the PHs aren't cheap and high doses are hard on the wallet.
> 
> I personally believe in shorter but more frequent cycles.


One point I'd like to make is if you do up the dose, then your body will not react to lesser doses as easy next time. You will constantly need to up the dose which is not good.


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## gopro (Jan 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> One point I'd like to make is if you do up the dose, then your body will not react to lesser doses as easy next time. You will constantly need to up the dose which is not good.



Correct...thanks for bringing that up.


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## ZECH (Jan 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Wolfpack22 *_
> 1-AD says it does not aromatize estrogens.  So why do you need an anti-estrogen to follow it?  And I also remember someone saying take 1-AD with Flax oil.  Will the Flax oil gel cap do any good?  Also if you do a 1-AD/4-AD cycle should you use AST's version of 4 AD or Ergopharm's version?


I wish I had a quarter everytime someone asked that. We need to do a writeup on this and make it a sticky!
When taking any PH, you upset the natural test/estrogen balance in your body. By getting an external supply, your body's own production slows down(the longer you take it, the more it slows) and your test level is way lower in reference to your estrogen level. If you just stop the PH's, your body is incapable of maintaining the gains you made. And some PH's do aromatise to estrogen also. The point here is you want to get your natural test levels back up as quickly as possible, to get back in balance with the estrogen level. That helps you maintain lean muscle mass. That is it in a nutshell.
Flax oil will help slow digestion and enable you to absorb more of the PH.
If you can't get Avant's gel, I would stick with Ergopharm.


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## ZECH (Jan 21, 2003)

GP...........long time no talk buddy!


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## Twin Peak (Jan 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> I wish I had a quarter everytime someone asked that. We need to do a writeup on this and make it a sticky!
> When taking any PH, you upset the natural test/estrogen balance in your body. By getting an external supply, your body's own production slows down(the longer you take it, the more it slows) and your test level is way lower in reference to your estrogen level. If you just stop the PH's, your body is incapable of maintaining the gains you made. And some PH's do aromatise to estrogen also. The point here is you want to get your natural test levels back up as quickly as possible, to get back in balance with the estrogen level. That helps you maintain lean muscle mass. That is it in a nutshell.
> Flax oil will help slow digestion and enable you to absorb more of the PH.
> If you can't get Avant's gel, I would stick with Ergopharm.



1 AD and 1Test do not DIRECTLY aromatize to estrogen.  They do however convert to a hormone that will.

Moreover, as DG said, using these products will DECREASE natural test production.  Halting use of these products along with supressed natural test is a recipe for disaster as you will lose all gains.  So you need to take post cycle precautions.  An anti-e like 6-Oxo will decrease estrogen levels which, in turn, naturally increases your own test levels much quicker than they otherwise would.  In addition, Pat Arnold has done a study where using 6-Oxo alone (i.e. not as post cycle therapy) increased natural test by 200%.


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## gopro (Jan 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> GP...........long time no talk buddy!



Yo buddy...howya doing!


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## Mudge (Jan 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> One point I'd like to make is if you do up the dose, then your body will not react to lesser doses as easy next time. You will constantly need to up the dose which is not good.



2 things can do that, long cycles, and bodyweigth requirements. So in theory if you gained 15 pounds, for the same 15 pounds next time you may have to up the dose.


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## ZECH (Jan 22, 2003)

Possible, but I really don't know if 15# would require more or if it would be more like 50#?? Good point.


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## Mudge (Jan 22, 2003)

DG, not to say it would require ALOT more, and there-in lies a probable dosing issue. If you used 4 tabs a day, and gained 15 pounds, taking you from say 215 to 230... this is about a 6.9% increase in weight. If next time at 230 hoping to hit 245, upping the ante from 4, to 5 tabs a day is a 20% increase in dose.

So maybe with that in  mind, unless gains really back off you could wait 3 cycles or so before increasing the dose? Hmm.. From 230 to 245, is about a 6.5% increase in weight gain versus the above 6.9%, and I didn't really think in terms of percentages, and wonder how that plays into things, even if only a small difference it may help to compare when talking a 140 pound person and 240 pound persons.


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## ZECH (Jan 23, 2003)

Well whatever the case, I really think that large bro's, (in excess of 200lb) can get good benefit from lower doses if all is right.


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