# another gyno question



## kicka19 (Nov 27, 2005)

you guys prob remember my thread from b4 about gyno, well i know i have it and im simply waiting for it to subsice b4 i decide on either juicen b4 surgry or skiping surgry and gear.  When the gland grows under the nipple does this induce fat growth on the chest? im not sure if my chest had gottn more fatty or if i just never really checked its composistion.  Also the gyno is not noticable except when the nipples become puffy and look like lil titties. when the puffiness goes down they apear normal, how long does it take for my hormone levels to balance out if that indeed is what is causeing them to become puffy.  I would say the puff up about once a day and it last for maybe 30mins to an hour, then it goes away. How long does this last and will it stop by itself?


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## gococksDJS (Nov 27, 2005)

your nipples inflate on their own and then deflate? Gyno doesn't come and go like a friend sleeping over at your house.


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## kicka19 (Nov 27, 2005)

while that is a good lil analogy they do inflate and deflate. I am talking about them puffing up, they do this and i was asking if it is due to like a spike and estrogen or some shit, it happens liek once a day then dies down.i am simply talking about the nipple becoming puffy, not any other part of my chest


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## Pirate! (Nov 28, 2005)

My nipples get puffy like that. It can come and go fast, especially with a moderate change in temperature. Honestly, I don't think that over goes away without surgery. Be real carefull monitoring you estrogen levels on future cycles.


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## ag-guys (Nov 28, 2005)

have you ran nolvadex for the right amount of time?

AG
www.ag-guys.com


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## kicka19 (Nov 28, 2005)

PirateFromHell said:
			
		

> My nipples get puffy like that. It can come and go fast, especially with a moderate change in temperature. Honestly, I don't think that over goes away without surgery. Be real carefull monitoring you estrogen levels on future cycles.



ya exactly, that temp thing is deff tru, how would i go about monitoring my estrogen  levels exactly, cause i am seriously debating a cycle within a few months, also what would be the best cycle for someone with definite gyno issues? sust?


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## Bazooka Tooth (Nov 28, 2005)

go see a gynocologist....

ohhh yea I need to change how I act when Im not in the open chat 

and I do know its gynecologist


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## Pirate! (Nov 28, 2005)

You can't monitor your estrogen. What stack depends on your experience. I would avoid anything that can aromatize, except test, and use an AI. Maybe Test/EQ/Tbol/Aromasin.


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## kicka19 (Nov 28, 2005)

ok good call, im gona look at possible stacks 2night, still prob a month or 2 away but never to late to start planning, calln the fukn surgion 2day to get this shit cut outa my chest


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## PWGriffin (Nov 28, 2005)

PirateFromHell said:
			
		

> You can't monitor your estrogen. What stack depends on your experience. I would avoid anything that can aromatize, except test, and use an AI. Maybe Test/EQ/Tbol/Aromasin.




Why not sub out the test for masteron?/


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## kicka19 (Nov 28, 2005)

i just lookd up that masteron and it seems to be more of a hardener and less of a mass gaining steroid, since i already have gyno issues should, this tbol is interseting tho, had anyone had gyno before and succesfull taken another cycle and not had a reocurance?


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## Tha Don (Nov 28, 2005)

i am highly gyno prone, i've ran 3 cycles, first was 1ad and 4ad, no side effects whatsoever, good solid gains, kept everything (incl all my strength) after pct, the 1ad was a very good cycle

my 2nd cycle was dbol, a lot of side effects, gained a huge amount of muscle AND fat, got gyno, acne, BP problems, looking back the cycle wasn't very plesant and i think the only reason i stuck with it was for my job at the time, i lost a lot of size and strength when i came off, and recovery was very difficult, i was depressed all summer, and lost all my muscle gains cutting off cycle, then i eventaully lost the fat!

3rd cycle was dbol/test/eq, lots of AI and cardio in an attempt to avoid the gyno, bloat and BP problems from my first cycle, but they seemed to have minimal effect, the dbol fucked me up again, and i currently have noticable lumps in both of my nipples and am embarrassed to show my chest, dissapointing mass and strength gains, i've added a lot of fat which i'm struggling to get rid of right now on anavar, overall this cycle has been a complete disaster

from now on the only compounds i will touch are:
primobolan
equipoise
anavar
masteron
test (at a max dose of 250mg/wk)
and maybe npp

also maybe oral turinabol and if i did want something stronger i could check out some of the designer roids such as superdrol, halodrol, md2, ergomax lmg etc, (none of which aromatize easily) but for now i'm prob going to stick with the top 4 in that list above, as hopefully none of them will give me gyno! and gains will be cleaner


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## kicka19 (Nov 28, 2005)

calld insurance and doctor 2day, gyno surg is for late january pending approval, when i get home im gona look up alot of the gear u mentiond young d, superdrol gave me huge amounts of strength but must share some blame wit the gyno i got. ill check this out in a lil but thanks for the advice


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## Tha Don (Nov 28, 2005)

sorry, was it superdrol that gave you gyno? i heard sdrol didn't aromatise so chances of gyno from it were low

another thing, after re-reading through your first post you seem to have gyno similar to mine, it looks a lot worse when my nipples are warm and have a puffier appearance, compared to when the are colder and more erect, BUT you can still see the lumps in them even when cold, but they are barely visible and you need to look very close! but they are still there

how long ago was your cycle? have you tried running nolva for a few weeks to see if that does anything? 

i was talking to someone else about gyno the other day and he told me that he developed lumps on cycle, and nolva did very little to help, however after his cycle over the following 6 months or so the lumps went away and he seemed convinced that if your gyno is caused from temporary elevated estrogen levels (such as that caused by steroids) then over time once estrogen levels come back down to normal the lump will go, you might just have to give it some time man, hopefully they will clear up


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## TrojanMan60563 (Nov 28, 2005)

my nips look a little puffy when its hot our and the nipple is relaxed....I don't think thats gyno because they have always been like that....the nipples look great when hard and there is no hard mass behind them or anything.

I don't think insurance will pay for gyno to be removed unless your doctor says it could increase risk of breast cancer...its a cosmetic surgery for men.


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## kicka19 (Nov 28, 2005)

nah, if the doc tells the insurance company it causes to much pain in patients life they have to cover it, its  judgement call by the insurance company but ussually the doctor can convince them


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## TrojanMan60563 (Nov 29, 2005)

let me know if that works out for you.....hope I never need to have the surgery done but once the gland is removed you never have to worry about getting gyno ever again....that in itself would be sooooo nice.


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## kicka19 (Nov 29, 2005)

the thing is they dont remove the gland, i wish they did but they dont, they just cut back the part that grew, they leave a piece in, i guess they do this or your nipples cave in or something


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## Tha Don (Nov 29, 2005)

TrojanMan60563 said:
			
		

> let me know if that works out for you.....hope I never need to have the surgery done but once the gland is removed you never have to worry about getting gyno ever again....that in itself would be sooooo nice.


damm right, one day i will probably get both of my nipples done, i just have quite puffy nipples from puberty, i think i naturally have mild gyno (not the tits sort, but more the bit of fat storage just around the nipple area), would be great to get that sorted one day!


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## Tha Don (Nov 29, 2005)

me on the right, you can see my nipples are quite puffy, i mean look at them compared to the other guy's, they look pretty bad, they've always been like that, this was taken about a month before my current cycle, they are obviously worse now!


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## kicka19 (Nov 29, 2005)

ya i got same shit, but presently have a higher bodyfat, so it looks even worse


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## lnvanry (Nov 29, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> me on the right, you can see my nipples are quite puffy, i mean look at them compared to the other guy's, they look pretty bad, they've always been like that, this was taken about a month before my current cycle, they are obviously worse now!


your nips are a little big, but not that bad...The other guy has no nips


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## TrojanMan60563 (Nov 29, 2005)

D your nips are just larger in size...they don't look that puffy in that photo.


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## gococksDJS (Nov 29, 2005)

Don't worry bros. 50 cent has gyno and still bangs mad hoes...


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## kicka19 (Nov 29, 2005)

hahahahah get gyno or die tryn, that is  fuck classic line, love taht shit


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## TrojanMan60563 (Nov 30, 2005)

well Fifty ain't dyin anytime soon....cause that is some gyno if I ever seen it. Since getting more involved in the sport when I look through muscle mags I notice ads with guys that have gyno and I never would have noticed it before....same with going to amature shows where guys have loads of it.


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## PWGriffin (Nov 30, 2005)

TrojanMan60563 said:
			
		

> well Fifty ain't dyin anytime soon....cause that is some gyno if I ever seen it. Since getting more involved in the sport when I look through muscle mags I notice ads with guys that have gyno and I never would have noticed it before....same with going to amature shows where guys have loads of it.



So a little puff and u got gyno??  I'm not sensitive at all or feel any lumps of any kind...does puffiness just go away with PCT??


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## Tha Don (Dec 1, 2005)

TrojanMan60563 said:
			
		

> well Fifty ain't dyin anytime soon....cause that is some gyno if I ever seen it. Since getting more involved in the sport when I look through muscle mags I notice ads with guys that have gyno and I never would have noticed it before....same with going to amature shows where guys have loads of it.


lol, you would have thought these guys would do something about it!


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## Tha Don (Dec 1, 2005)

PWGriffin said:
			
		

> So a little puff and u got gyno??  I'm not sensitive at all or feel any lumps of any kind...does puffiness just go away with PCT??


yeah theres different types, big puffy nipples (like i have) is a type of gyno, you can get that removed, if you nipples are only puffy whilst on, and go back down after your cycle i wouldn't have thought you have a whole lot to worry about, just keep a real close eye on their shape/size in the mirror and check for lumps on a regular basis


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## gococksDJS (Dec 1, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> lol, you would have thought these guys would do something about it!


 Bro, 50 Cent runs "G-Unit Gyno Removal". G-G-G-G-Gyno


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## Tha Don (Dec 1, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> Bro, 50 Cent runs "G-Unit Gyno Removal". G-G-G-G-Gyno


haha, yeah, 50 is the man, if he can have gyno and be cool.. then so can i!


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## TrojanMan60563 (Dec 1, 2005)

Yeah if I had bad gyno I could have it removed even if I had to pay out of pocket.

50 can have 10 times as much gyno as he has in that photo and he would still fuck a gang of bitches...why....cause he is rich as hell. Money is like gyno blinders to a bitch. Its the universal blinder for women. You could be sporting a 2" dick and as long as you are rich you would still have a flock of girls to tickle with that little thing every night.


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## kicka19 (Dec 1, 2005)

Im tryn to design a bulking cycle to take in about 2 months time, I cant seem to figure out what a good begginers cycle would be considering ill only be able to use non-aromatizing gear, the best i can seem to put together is a 
1-10 sust 250 mg once a week, possbly 500 mg
11-15 nolva
and of u guys with expereince feel free to offer ur imput


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## gococksDJS (Dec 2, 2005)

kicka19 said:
			
		

> Im tryn to design a bulking cycle to take in about 2 months time, I cant seem to figure out what a good begginers cycle would be considering ill only be able to use non-aromatizing gear, the best i can seem to put together is a
> 1-10 sust 250 mg once a week, possbly 500 mg
> 11-15 nolva
> and of u guys with expereince feel free to offer ur imput


 who told you sust doesn't aromatize? It's testosterone.


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## Tha Don (Dec 2, 2005)

you have loads of choices... deca, primo, eq, anavar, oral turinabol, tren, sdrol, hdrol, m1t, npp, masteron... the list is endless!

many steroids do not aromatise to estrogen (or aromatise at a very low rate), i'd prob go with 250mg/wk of test as a base, you could add an AI to that to be on the safe side (i would regardless), and then add whatever

personally i'm looking into primo or eq cyp and OT for my next cycle, but thats a long way off


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## kicka19 (Dec 2, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> you have loads of choices... deca, primo, eq, anavar, oral turinabol, tren, sdrol, hdrol, m1t, npp, masteron... the list is endless!
> 
> many steroids do not aromatise to estrogen (or aromatise at a very low rate), i'd prob go with 250mg/wk of test as a base, you could add an AI to that to be on the safe side (i would regardless), and then add whatever
> 
> personally i'm looking into primo or eq cyp and OT for my next cycle, but thats a long way off




test cyp 1-2 200 mg per week
test cyp 3-5 300 mg per week 
test cyp 6-8 200 mg per week
deca 2-8      250 mg per week
nolva 1-8        20 ED
nolva 9-12       80/40/20/20 ED

That look decent? i think i should keep the test in the low range to stop estrogen conversion, young d or pirate, whats u take?


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## kicka19 (Dec 2, 2005)

also im gona try to work Aromasin in there


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## Pirate! (Dec 2, 2005)

kicka19 said:
			
		

> test cyp 1-2 200 mg per week
> test cyp 3-5 300 mg per week
> test cyp 6-8 200 mg per week
> deca 2-8      250 mg per week
> ...


Are you talking about doing this after your mammaries are removed? Otherwise, this cycle could lead to gyno. Make test the only aromatizable steroid in your stack and use a good AI like aromasin. How about test/eq/tbol/aromasin?


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## kicka19 (Dec 2, 2005)

ok, im look at all those right now, that tbol sounds looks like quality gear but i want to stay away from orals since i drink heavily once a week ussually, so idk, decisions, and ya its gona be post surgry, the glands dont get totally removed, the part that has grown gets cut back while they still leave a piece behind


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## kicka19 (Dec 2, 2005)

tbol 1-7 20 mg week
test cyp 1-8 200 mg 
EQ 1-8 200 mg
nolva 1-8 20 mg
nolva 9-12 80/40/20/20

also im gona try to get aromasin worked into there, that looks like a good stack i think, im sure ill respond very well seeing as i blew up on just sdrol and previous PHs

would u go test prop or test cyp for a first cycle?


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## Tha Don (Dec 2, 2005)

kicka19 said:
			
		

> tbol 1-7 20 mg week
> test cyp 1-8 200 mg
> EQ 1-8 200 mg
> nolva 1-8 20 mg
> ...


not sure about the durations and doses, personally i'd run it something like this...

wk 1-10 test enan (or cyp) 250mg/wk
wk 1-10 EQ cyp (if not Ud. would work but only run till 8-9) 600mg/wk
wk 1-6 OT 40mg/ed
wk 1-14 Adex/Aromasin 0.5mg/eod
wk 3-12 Hcg 1000iu/wk (split into 2 500iu shots)
wk 13-17 Nolva PCT taper 60>40>40>20>20

i reckon that would be a great cycle, risk of gyno would be low-moderate, for totally minimum gyno risks you could replace the OT with var and the EQ with primo, but that would also be a much more expensive cycle, i reckon as long as you run a good AI you'd be okay


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## kicka19 (Dec 2, 2005)

i was lookn at droppn about 400 for this cycle with about another 100 for pct, hahaha, dam, may need to make a few more moves to afford this stuff, thanks for the help


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## Tha Don (Dec 2, 2005)

i've just remembered, this is what? your 1st full cycle

in that case 400mg EQ will be enough, i did notice it at that dose around week 4-5 i started getting really tight and vascular, unfortunately it was short-lived but i reckon 400mg would be okay for you, you could also run the tbol till week 4 or 5 instead of 6, 6 is maybe a bit long for a kickstart anyway


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## kicka19 (Dec 2, 2005)

tbol 1-4 30 mg
eq 1-8 400 mg
cyp 1- 8 250 mg
dex 1-14 .05 mg ED
nolva 1-8 10 mg
nolva 9-12 ED 60/40/20/20

I know everyone recomends test cyp from first cycle but would 3 three different steroids be alot for a first cycle even tho they are all at moderatly low dosages? im look to keep 15 lbs after pct hopefully and im about 185-190 now with round 13-14bf(not exactly sure).


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## Tha Don (Dec 2, 2005)

depends on the doses and what your running TBH, personally i think 250mg of test and 400mg EQ is fine for a first, i might even go with them doses again on my next, prob with test only is the high chance of injury as test weakens tendon strength, so i think adding either deca or eq is a perfectly rationable decision


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## Pirate! (Dec 2, 2005)

Start pct 3 weeks after the last eq shot. Forget the Tbol since it is your first cycle and you drink.

Run the test one week longer than the eq. For aromasin, use 10-20 mg/day.


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## kicka19 (Dec 2, 2005)

pirate hit me up wit a PM about that nolva ur selling, seems like a real good deal


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## gococksDJS (Dec 2, 2005)

IMO you need to up that EQ dose. 400mg/week isn't enough. It needs to be run long and hard or it's not worth the price IMO. At least 600mg/week for 10-12 weeks.


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## kicka19 (Dec 2, 2005)

600 mg even for a first cycle? tryn to avoid all estorgen conversion possible


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## gococksDJS (Dec 2, 2005)

kicka19 said:
			
		

> 600 mg even for a first cycle? tryn to avoid all estorgen conversion possible


 yes, at least 600. There is no way you will avoid all estrogen conversion, but estrogenic activity with EQ is fairly minimal. Remember, you need estrogen so stopping all aromatization will hurt you rather than help.


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## kicka19 (Dec 2, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> yes, at least 600. There is no way you will avoid all estrogen conversion, but estrogenic activity with EQ is fairly minimal. Remember, you need estrogen so stopping all aromatization will hurt you rather than help.



ya i understand i need estrogen, im gona check out droppen tbol and bumpn 600 EQ


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## kicka19 (Dec 4, 2005)

instead of cyp im looking at Testosterone Enanthate, any problems with that?


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## Tha Don (Dec 4, 2005)

no, enan is fine


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## Tha Don (Dec 4, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> yes, at least 600. There is no way you will avoid all estrogen conversion, but estrogenic activity with EQ is fairly minimal. Remember, you need estrogen so stopping all aromatization will hurt you rather than help.


running a low dose of adex such as 0.5mg EOD will still leave enough estrogen in the system to maintain good health, anything over 0.5mg EOD and i started feeling bad, same when i megadose nolva, i feel very down and insecure, and i seem to lose strength too, so i agree, you need to leave a little E in your system or else things can become very unpleasant


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