# Police officer shoots unarmed man



## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 6, 2009)

Video of California police shooting spurs investigation - CNN.com

was this posted?



 (CNN) -- A New Year's Day shooting in which a subway police officer fired a deadly shot into the back of an unarmed man has the San Francisco Bay Area demanding answers as authorities appeal for patience.
Oscar Grant, 22, was killed January 1 in a shooting at a subway station in California's Bay Area.







Oscar Grant, 22, was killed January 1 in a shooting at a subway station in California's Bay Area.

Bay Area Rapid Transit spokesman Linton Johnson told CNN affiliate KTVU-TV in Oakland, California, that the officer is presumed innocent and described him as devastated.

Attorney John Burris called the shooting "unconscionable" and said he filed a $25 million claim with BART on Tuesday, alleging wrongful death and violation of civil rights by use of excessive force. BART has 45 days to respond, Burris said.

"It's a clear shooting in the back that should not have taken place," Burris said, characterizing the incident as a case of "overagressiveness by police."

KTVU obtained at least two videos of the incident and its prelude. One video, which KTVU reported came from a train passenger who wished not to be identified, shows three young men against a wall in the crowded Fruitvale station.

Karina Vargas, who also provided a video to KTVU, said the men had been pulled from the train car in front of hers. Video Watch the events preceding the shooting »

Burris said Tuesday that the young men had been celebrating the new year at a popular waterfront tourist spot, The Embarcadero. They were heading home when police pulled them from the train car.

Some of the young men were handcuffed, but not 22-year-old Oscar Grant. The video from the anonymous passenger shows Grant seated on the floor with his back against the wall.

Grant holds up his hands, appearing to plead with police. Burris said Tuesday that Grant was asking police not to use a Taser.

"He said to them, 'Don't Tase me; I have a 4-year-old daughter,' " Burris said.

The interaction on the video is not audible.

Seconds later, police put Grant face-down on the ground. Grant appears to struggle.

One of the officers kneels on Grant as another officer stands up, tugs at his gun, unholsters it and fires a shot into Grant's back.

Burris said the bullet went through Grant's back and then ricocheted off the floor and through his lungs.

Grant, who has a 4-year-old daughter, died seven hours later, KTVU reported.

"I couldn't believe it. We was already following directions and everything, and they shot him," Fernando Anicete, one of the young men with Grant, told KTVU.

Burris has spoken to witnesses who claim that Grant was trying to resolve the situation.

"He had been telling people to calm down. 'Be cool. Just do what they tell you to do,' " the attorney said.

Johnson said the video provided to KTVU is inconclusive.

There are two surveillance cameras at the Fruitvale station, but a BART official told CNN that no video is being released at this time.

The community is outraged, according to local media. CNN affiliate KRON-TV in San Francisco reported that about 20 people rallied Monday outside BART's district headquarters in Oakland.

"A 22-year-old unarmed father was executed and assassinated, and BART expects us to swallow that the shooting may have been an accident," protest organizer Evan Shamar of Oakland shouted through a bullhorn, according to KRON.

BART says an investigation is ongoing and hasn't reached any conclusions.

The San Francisco Chronicle published an editorial Tuesday demanding answers as well.

"The BART police say that they are taking the investigation very seriously, but they had better find a way to reach out to the public effectively about what is going on and why. Otherwise, public outrage over this case is going to grow exponentially with every passing day," the newspaper said.

BART Police Chief Gary Gee released a statement this week expressing condolences for Grant's family and saying the authority is cooperating with the Alameda County district attorney's office, which is also investigating.

Gee added that BART will complete an "unbiased and thorough investigation" and asked the public to be patient.

"As frustrating as it is, I want to stress that we cannot and will not jeopardize this case by discussing details before the investigation is complete," Gee said.

Gee provided minor details of what preceded the shooting: BART police received a report that two groups of passengers were involved in an altercation as their train left the West Oakland Station about 2 a.m.

"BART police officers responded to the platform at Fruitvale and detained several persons," Gee said in his statement.

BART has not identified the officer, saying only that he has been on the force two years. He has undergone drug and alcohol testing and is on administrative leave, both of which are standard procedure, according to BART.

The officer has yet to make a public statement.

Johnson and Gee say they are refraining from releasing further details to avoid compromising the investigation. Johnson further told KTVU that BART wanted to avoid "polluting the potential pool of witnesses."

Burris, however, said there is no excuse for the use of force on a man being restrained by police. If BART does not grant his $25 million claim or if the authority fails to respond in 45 days, Burris intends to file a lawsuit, he said.

Burris, who served as Rodney King's co-counsel in King's civil case against the Los Angeles Police Department, said he also wants criminal charges filed against the officer.

He is pushing the Alameda County District Attorney Tom Orloff to press second-degree murder or involuntary manslaughter charges, he said.

Second-degree murder charges would be warranted if the officer shot Grant in the back when Grant posed no danger, Burris said. However, there are reports speculating that the officer accidentally shot Grant, in which case involuntary manslaughter charges would be appropriate, Burris said.

"No one wants to believe a cop would just kill somebody like that," he said. "My view is, this is criminal conduct, period."

Johnson told KTVU that authorities are trying to determine whether the officer who shot Grant accidentally drew his gun instead of his Taser.

He also said authorities still need to speak to all the officers but that the BART officers involved in the incident felt outnumbered and called the Oakland Police Department for backup. iReport.com: 'I'm not happy with the state of the police'

"We need to take our time and go through this thoroughly and try to figure everything out. There's more to this story than this one angle," Johnson told the station.

Asked whether there were developments Tuesday, Johnson said he had none.


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## danzik17 (Jan 6, 2009)

Send that piece of shit pig to jail.  He wasn't resisting at all in that video so there was absolutely no reason for him to even be thinking about a taser let alone a gun.


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 6, 2009)

TERRIBLE NEWS: Raw Cell Phone Video Of Fatal Bay Area Police Shooting | Vlad TV

another news story...a video


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## soxmuscle (Jan 7, 2009)

This is unbelievable.


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## FishOrCutBait (Jan 7, 2009)

Horrifying to think that this could be anyone. This could be me, or you, or your friend. Why the hell would he draw a gun, or even a tazer?? Three officers to subdue one man. 

Outrageous


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## Little Wing (Jan 7, 2009)

supposedly the cop thought he drew his taser.


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 7, 2009)

Little Wing said:


> supposedly the cop thought he drew his taser.



wow, what a Barney Phife...

well WOOOOPS!

He was a cop for 2 years, he should know where everything in his holster is...

What is his excuse? Someone at the precinct pulled a twisted prank on him and put his pistol where his taser should be, and his taser where his pistol should be?

Give me a break!


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 7, 2009)

also, from what is seen on the video, which seems to show just about everything you need to see, there was no reason to even pull the taser out!

edit:

ahhh yea, this was already said



danzik17 said:


> Send that piece of shit pig to jail.  He wasn't resisting at all in that video so there was absolutely no reason for him to even be thinking about a taser let alone a gun.



edit again:



FishOrCutBait said:


> Horrifying to think that this could be anyone. This could be me, or you, or your friend. Why the hell would he draw a gun, or even a tazer?? Three officers to subdue one man.
> 
> Outrageous



said twice lol


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## KelJu (Jan 7, 2009)

Wow! I don't even know what to say to that.


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## DOMS (Jan 7, 2009)

I say shoot him with a taser and a gun until he can tell the difference.


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## IronAddict (Jan 7, 2009)

That's just a bunch of B.S.! That dude is not only totally unworthy of being a transit faux cop, cause he doesn't have the perception of touch, overreacts, and obviously was beaten up quite badly by blacks when he was a kid!


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## evanps (Jan 7, 2009)

I think we're gonna see more ignorant shit like this in days to come with everybody packing around cell cameras. Accident or not I'd say this type of thing happens in our time more than we know, its just that no one sees it like this.

question is.......with shit like this and videos like those form the russian kids (I forget who posted it) floating around are ppl going to become more desensitized to violence or do something about it?


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 7, 2009)

top


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 8, 2009)

Fatal Calif. train station shooting sparks anger - Yahoo! News

The cop filed for resignation, still under investigation of course

Yahoo!


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## maniclion (Jan 8, 2009)

Why ya'll blaming the cop, it was the guns fault...everyone knows guns is evil...that gun jumped into his hand and magically fired, man can't ya'll see that?


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## mcguin (Jan 8, 2009)

its cops like that, that give guns a bad name...


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## Chubby (Jan 8, 2009)

maniclion said:


> Why ya'll blaming the cop, it was the guns fault...everyone knows guns is evil...that gun jumped into his hand and magically fired, man can't ya'll see that?


You are right.  Lets put that gun in the prison.


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## Will Brink (Jan 8, 2009)

danzik17 said:


> Send that piece of shit pig to jail.  He wasn't resisting at all in that video so there was absolutely no reason for him to even be thinking about a taser let alone a gun.



He *was* resisting being handcuffed, and they did what they would normaly do: one cop puts his knee into his back to hold him there and the other draws his taser and fires. It was not a taser however, cop fu%$ed up big time, and that's the issue. He was cuffed after he was shot, which is SOP for any dept no matter the circumstances.

The tasers were new to the dept (Dec), he was a 2 year cop, which is still rookie territory, and it's possible they had minimal training with it, and or, dealing with it on the belt, etc. Cop had had his first kid like 2 weeks before also, so his head was not where it needed to be which = ugly results.

The issue of whether cuffs, etc were all needed in the first place will have to be looked at in context to see if the entire event could have been avoided, but vids dont give context and we dont know what was said between the parties, etc.

Here in Boston, a girl was killed with a pepper gun used by a cop. Went right through her eye. It was really more due to lack of training than any thing else, and lack of training is a common problem as it costs $$$$$ and so it's often after such an even the depts orders all manner of training. I was at the Boston PD training after the pepper ball thing.

Get your facts in line before making statements.


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 8, 2009)

Nah there is nothing you can say to justify this in my opinion...His mind was elsewhere? 

You can make this excuse for criminals too, that just doesn't cut it...

Can't feel soft for cops and feel criminals deserve what they get...

Cops have it rough, there is no such thing as a cut and dry day for them, the job is very edgy, I understand all that, they have bad days..

Well so do the working class Americans, so do the non working class living in ghettos, they have bad days, they don't want to work just so they can have enough money to live in the ghetto...

Im taking this discussion a little deeper than it may need to go so Ill stop there, but why would you even stick up for this guy?

I do believe it was a mistake, but one he should pay for as any other citizen would.


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 8, 2009)

Ohhh and I have to add that I do feel bad for this cop if that was a mistake, it is going to suck to live with that on his head, which I do believe it was like I said, I couldn't fathom it not being one, but what the hell? You can't just say wooopsies! I took his life!

What if the criminal was holding a gun at the police in a stand down and he accidentally pulled the trigger?

Im sorry but this guy needs to be charged.


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## Will Brink (Jan 8, 2009)

Fetusaurus Rex said:


> Nah there is nothing you can say to justify



Explanation does not = justification. If you want to know what was actually going on, and the chain of events that lead to it, you have to know the variables of the event, and those were the variables. 



Fetusaurus Rex said:


> I do believe it was a mistake, but one he should pay for as any other citizen would.



And he may yet.


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 8, 2009)

WillBrink said:


> Explanation does not = justification. If you want to know what was actually going on, and the chain of events that lead to it, you have to know the variables of the event, and those were the variables.
> 
> 
> 
> And he may yet.



Why wasn't he cuffed for that though? Why isn't he in a cell with bail? Or is he? I might have missed that part, but he should be.


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## Chubby (Jan 8, 2009)

It seems like this news is spreading like a wild fire around the country.  May be it is time Uncle Sam should learn one more thing from China to control the puplic opinion.BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | China's internet 'spin doctors'  By the way, I am not one of them.


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 8, 2009)

chobby192 said:


> It seems like this news is spreading like a wild fire around the country.  May be it is time Uncle Sam should learn one more thing from China to control the puplic opinion.BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | China's internet 'spin doctors'  By the way, I am not one of them.



For real?

Maybe they can feed us horse shit and convince us it tastes good too...

Let's give the government more and more control, inject us with the Mark of the Beast while they are at it...


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## ZECH (Jan 8, 2009)

Fetusaurus Rex said:


> Why wasn't he cuffed for that though? Why isn't he in a cell with bail? Or is he? I might have missed that part, but he should be.



Not quite that simple. First off, IA will get involved and start an investigation along with top state ivestigators. After they have done a complete investigation and determined what really happened, then they can either make charges or not and that will probably take months.


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## Will Brink (Jan 8, 2009)

Fetusaurus Rex said:


> Why wasn't he cuffed for that though?



Dude, how old are you? Because there was no reason to. He will be cuffed if he's charged and found guilty after an investigation takes place. You know, due process and all that.


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## ZECH (Jan 8, 2009)

And I will add, the actual shooting is not included in the footage, so we do not know what transpired just prior to the shooting and the facts.


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 8, 2009)

WillBrink said:


> Dude, how old are you? Because there was no reason to. He will be cuffed if he's charged and found guilty after an investigation takes place. You know, due process and all that.



It happened right in front of their very eyes....

This is a legitimate question...

If the police saw a shooting on the street, a murder, would they act then and detain the shooter? Or go back to the station and file a report?

does this have nothing to do with  "the blue wall of silence"...."us vs. them" attitude?


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## Will Brink (Jan 8, 2009)

dg806 said:


> And I will add, the actual shooting is not included in the footage, so we do not know what transpired just prior to the shooting and the facts.



Not sure which you saw, but vid I saw you heard "bang" very clearly during the vud, but yes, it was fuzzy. Looked like typical SOP for a person resisting being handcuffed: one cop drops a knee into his back to hold him, the other stands up, draws, and fires what he thought was a taser. See it here:

YouTube - POLICE SHOOTING AT BART STATION - OSCAR GRANT

The shooting portion is clear enough.


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 8, 2009)

dg806 said:


> And I will add, the actual shooting is not included in the footage, so we do not know what transpired just prior to the shooting and the facts.



Yes it is.

Yahoo!


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## Will Brink (Jan 8, 2009)

Fetusaurus Rex said:


> It happened right in front of their very eyes....
> 
> This is a legitimate question...
> 
> ...



I'm not going to teach police process 101 to you. If you are that clueless, so be it. Go ask a lawyer to explain it to you or something.


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## ZECH (Jan 8, 2009)

Probably be a second degree murder charge and a big civil lawsuit.


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 8, 2009)

WillBrink said:


> I'm not going to teach police process 101 to you. If you are that clueless, so be it. Go ask a lawyer to explain it to you or something.



lol ok ok....You are right, I don't get it, you are a cop and I am not, of course I don't understand all of it....It just seems simple to me I guess, in a just system it would....

For the record I have nothing against cops, I have never had an unpleasant exchange with a cop, I am an honest citizen, been pulled over for a few traffic violations, more times than not I got off with a warning...I play on a mens beer league softball team full of cops and firefighters...They are all very cool people.

I just want to know what it is I don't get then?


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## Will Brink (Jan 8, 2009)

dg806 said:


> Probably be a *second degree *murder charge and a big civil lawsuit.



You don't think manslaughter?


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## ZECH (Jan 8, 2009)

WillBrink said:


> You don't think manslaughter?



Yeah I was actually going to post that also. Could be either one. Depends on the exact definations of each defined by California law. It may be different than NC law?


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## Will Brink (Jan 8, 2009)

Fetusaurus Rex said:


> lol ok ok....You are right, I don't get it, you are a cop and I am not,



I'm not a cop. I believe dg806 is, or at least is in LE in some capacity. I work with cops however. If dg806 wants to explain it to you, that's up to him


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 8, 2009)

WillBrink said:


> I'm not a cop. I believe dg806 is, or at least is in LE in some capacity. I work with cops however. If dg806 wants to explain it to you, that's up to him



Ok I apologize, got a little fired up over nothing perhaps, I am interested in hearing what I am missing though....


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## Will Brink (Jan 8, 2009)

dg806 said:


> Yeah I was actually going to post that also. Could be either one. Depends on the exact definations of each defined by California law. It may be different than NC law?



Don't know. Just though MS charge was the charge when their was not an actual intent to kill, but death was the result, but I am no expert on CA law. How would they define Second Degree to that in NC?


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## Will Brink (Jan 8, 2009)

Fetusaurus Rex said:


> Ok I apologize, got a little fired up over nothing perhaps, I am interested in hearing what I am missing though....



It's pretty simple. Discharging a weapon in the line of of duty is what LEOs do. It's part of their job. You don't get to decide in the middle of a dangerous and chaotic scene "oh, I think he did that on purpose and I will now arrest him" because that's the real world vs TV. Once a gun is discharged, the LEO is put on administrative leave, an investigation is done, and a conclusion is reached, and charges are filed or they are not. That's the basic process and yes, it's different for them then it is for a civi, and it has to be. 

It's also been the case where a civi shot a bad guy, cops show up, and an investigation is launched to decide if the civi broke the law, or did it in self defense. Then and only then, charges are brought or not, which = arrest, cuffs, etc, etc. So that process can apply to civi shootings also. 

Depends on the circumstances.


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## ZECH (Jan 8, 2009)

Definately not second degree......has been recently changed. I cannot find manslaughter.....will look it up later. But there should be vouluntary and involuntary which the latter will probably apply.


Murder in the First and Second Degree (14-17)
A murder which shall be perpetrated by ... poison, lying in wait, imprisonment, starving, torture, or by any other kind of willful, deliberate and premeditated killing or which shall be committed in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of any arson, rape or sex offense, robbery, kidnapping, burglary, or other felony committed or attempted with the use of a deadly weapon, shall be ... murder in the first degree ... and shall be punished by death or life imprisonment ... except that any person ... under 17 years of age at the time of the murder shall be punished with imprisonment ... for life.

All other kinds of murder, including that which shall be proximately caused by the unlawful distribution of opium or any synthetic or natural salt, compound, derivative, or the preparation of opium ... cause the death of the user, shall be ... murder in the second degree and ... shall be punished as a Class C felony.

Classification: First Degree - Class A Felony (death or life imprisonment); Second Degree - Class B2 Felony (50 years, life imprisonment, fine, or both).


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## Will Brink (Jan 8, 2009)

dg806 said:


> Definately not second degree......has been recently changed. I cannot find manslaughter.....will look it up later. But there should be vouluntary and involuntary which the latter will probably apply.



If he does get charged, sounds like the latter to me, but all a WAG at this point I suppose. Bad mojo all around.


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## AKIRA (Jan 8, 2009)

The cop was an executioner in this vid.  I hope he dies, personally.


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 8, 2009)

WillBrink said:


> It's pretty simple. Discharging a weapon in the line of of duty is what LEOs do. It's part of their job. You don't get to decide in the middle of a dangerous and chaotic scene "oh, I think he did that on purpose and I will now arrest him" because that's the real world vs TV. Once a gun is discharged, the LEO is put on administrative leave, an investigation is done, and a conclusion is reached, and charges are filed or they are not. That's the basic process and yes, it's different for them then it is for a civi, and it has to be.
> 
> It's also been the case where a civi shot a bad guy, cops show up, and an investigation is launched to decide if the civi broke the law, or did it in self defense. Then and only then, charges are brought or not, which = arrest, cuffs, etc, etc. So that process can apply to civi shootings also.
> 
> Depends on the circumstances.



ahh ok I understand I was wrong...

I am very surprised this is considered police procedure though, to even pull a taser that fast....With 3 cops on the scene, he pulled that thing quick!

I dunno, I can't sit here and dissect someone else's job and the way someone does it, this is more than just a normal everyday job though and this is a huge screw up


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## Will Brink (Jan 8, 2009)

Fetusaurus Rex said:


> ahh ok I understand I was wrong...
> 
> I am very surprised this is considered police procedure though, to even pull a taser that fast..



What should they do what when a person starts fighting with them in the middle of a subway tunnel, talk nice nice to you? It's not a game, and it's not TV. Evry second you let that guy struggle and refuse to be cuffed is a second someone from the crowed might bash a bottle over your head, etc.  If not that, pepper spray, smack you a few times with a knight stick, bend your wrists, etc in directions that hurt like fu&^ to get you to comply, etc. Tasers are used to reduce injury to both the person and the cops, and that's exactly what they do in most cases. Much better to get tasered then hit with a knight stick I assure you. A cop who is lacking experience with the taser, is fairly new to the job, just had a kid, is dealing with a bunch of drunk people yelling at them,etc, etc; lead to tragic chain of events, but that's what it was.


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 8, 2009)

WillBrink said:


> What should they do what when a person starts fighting with them in the middle of a subway tunnel, talk nice nice to you? It's not a game, and it's not TV. Evry second you let that guy struggle and refuse to be cuffed is a second someone from the crowed might bash a bottle over your head, etc.  If not that, pepper spray, smack you a few times with a knight stick, bend your wrists, etc in directions that hurt like fu&^ to get you to comply, etc. Tasers are used to reduce injury to both the person and the cops, and that's exactly what they do in most cases. Much better to get tasered then hit with a knight stick I assure you. A cop who is lacking experience with the taser, is fairly new to the job, just had a kid, is dealing with a bunch of drunk people yelling at them,etc, etc; lead to tragic chain of events, but that's what it was.



I guess what I should have said is that it is a shame that it has to come to this as a society, and as for protectors of civil society... and you are right, that is just what it is...

Stuff like this give you a feeling of fear of those who are meant to protect you, and question their competence and judgement...

But yea I don't think there is any turning back to days of civil respect between police and citizens...Too many kids being raised to hate cops, and it is too trendy to hate cops, and stories like this don't help at all.

again, I for one do not hate cops, I don't have a legitimate personal reason to, a lot of people have stories of instances where they had unpleasant interactions with the police, but that is just he said she said, this is a video where I see about as much as I need to, and it is shocking...That is all....One of a few instances...


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## min0 lee (Jan 8, 2009)

2 years is not a lot of time for this type of job.


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## min0 lee (Jan 8, 2009)

and here we go........Riots erupt in Oakland after slain father laid to rest


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## Will Brink (Jan 8, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> and here we go........Riots erupt in Oakland after slain father laid to rest



People will use any excuse to turn into complete A-holes.


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## min0 lee (Jan 8, 2009)

It's all about looting.


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## Little Wing (Jan 9, 2009)

if you really think about it, the only thing that makes sense is the cop really did think he was using his tazer. or the guy got him in the balls while struggling??? fucked up either way n no need to have drawn a tazer at that point. 

i think the crime was unlawful use of force leading to accidental death. now what would that be?


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## ZECH (Jan 9, 2009)

It wasn't too much force. He was resisting arrest. If he had not done that and complied with what they were asking and just let them cuff him, then there would have been no need to wrestle with him while trying to cuff him and the cop would not had any reason to tase him. He would still be alive if he had complied. This is the problem with all these cases. They think they can resist and fight with no consequences. It's not gonna happen.


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## I Are Baboon (Jan 9, 2009)

min0 lee said:


> and here we go........Riots erupt in Oakland after slain father laid to rest



I thought they were just pissed off about the Jason Giambi signing.


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## Chubby (Jan 9, 2009)

Both police officers and citizens can learn some lessons from this incident.  I used to watch 'Cops' on the TV.  I never understood why people resist when cops try to arrest them.  People continue to resist arrest against three or four police officers.  If you break the law, then should be arrested.  If you didn't break the law, they will let you go after questioning.  So why not make the whole process easier for both yourself and the officers.  

Lesson for the citizens:
Don't resist arrest and let officers do their Job.

Lesson for the officers:
 Be aware of your weapons.


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## min0 lee (Jan 9, 2009)

dg806 said:


> They think they can resist and fight with no consequences. It's not gonna happen.



Why must they go that route, I see and read about this all the time.

One guy here in NYC got caught jumping the turnstile, instead of surrendering peacefully he shot and killed an officer.....all because he didn't want to get deported.
He got his wish, he can stay in America now.


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## Little Wing (Jan 9, 2009)

dg806 said:


> It wasn't too much force. He was resisting arrest. If he had not done that and complied with what they were asking and just let them cuff him, then there would have been no need to wrestle with him while trying to cuff him and the cop would not had any reason to tase him. He would still be alive if he had complied. This is the problem with all these cases. They think they can resist and fight with no consequences. It's not gonna happen.




i just thought since there were 3 against 1 they could have cuffed him without tasing him. if it wasn't too much force to tase him i think all he's guilty of is a mistake that will probably be devastating to him the rest of his life. i feel sorry for him.


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## maniclion (Jan 9, 2009)

dg806 said:


> It wasn't too much force. He was resisting arrest. If he had not done that and complied with what they were asking and just let them cuff him, then there would have been no need to wrestle with him while trying to cuff him and the cop would not had any reason to tase him. He would still be alive if he had complied. This is the problem with all these cases. They think they can resist and fight with no consequences. It's not gonna happen.


The thing is is that the cop pulled his weapon with his finger on the trigger.....I believe no cop should be in a situation where they could easily mistake a gun for a tazer.  

  There are valuable lessons to be learned here, I feel just as sorry for the cop and his family as I do for the deceased and his family...  My friend was hit by a bus and the driver tried to commit suicide after he lost his job.....  Imagine you were to make a fatal mistake one day while doing your job, right?  I mean any of us could easily cause an accident to happen that takes a life how would you feel if everyone started telling you you're a piece of shit and that you did it on purpose you might start to believe them.....

You can tell I have really mixed emotions on this whole thing....


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## evanps (Jan 9, 2009)

Being a country boy I have some experience with guns but still have some questions........what I want to know is how similar are a taser and an issued firearm?  How do you pull a gun, release the safety and fire without thinking "oh this is a real gun"? Maybe the safety wasn't on but this is still bad procedure. Also, Why would you fire a tazer while your colleagues are in obvious close contact with the individual you intended to electrocute? I'm just not clear on all this.


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## QuestionGuy (Jan 9, 2009)

WillBrink said:


> Dude, how old are you? Because there was no reason to. He will be cuffed if he's charged and found guilty after an investigation takes place. You know, due process and all that.



DUDE, stop trying, just top trying, he is a 20 year old wiht little man synddrome who thinks he know it all...probably a late bloomer because I acted just like him when i was 17, at 20 i was almost at my bachelors degree and almost starting my career...He doesnt get it, the pot poluted his mind....YET listen to this, he was tupid enough to give out his location and that he was going to vandalise city property by placing a baching sing on a city owned STOP sign, thus defacing city property and commiting a class B...he also stated the name of the cop who pulled him over and gave him a ticket (((haha, surprise surprise, its the cops fault not his own)), another imature thing that he will have problems wiht later on in life...hahha, he is a internet thug, but reality just a scared little child...im just waiting to see if he makes any more comments on defacing city property so i can get a hold of that officer....


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 10, 2009)

QuestionGuy said:


> DUDE, stop trying, just top trying, he is a 20 year old wiht little man synddrome who thinks he know it all...probably a late bloomer because I acted just like him when i was 17, at 20 i was almost at my bachelors degree and almost starting my career...He doesnt get it, the pot poluted his mind....YET listen to this, he was tupid enough to give out his location and that he was going to vandalise city property by placing a baching sing on a city owned STOP sign, thus defacing city property and commiting a class B...he also stated the name of the cop who pulled him over and gave him a ticket (((haha, surprise surprise, its the cops fault not his own)), another imature thing that he will have problems wiht later on in life...hahha, he is a internet thug, but reality just a scared little child...im just waiting to see if he makes any more comments on defacing city property so i can get a hold of that officer....



wow....who are you even talking about in this?

because his response was to me, and I know you are not talking about me because not a single thing you said describes me....Im 26 years old from Iowa and I said nothing about defacing a stop sign? and wouldnt classify myself as a thug by any means, unless you are classifying me based on the kind of music I listen to....?...You either totally fucked up on quoting and this isn't about me at all, or you don't know who I am but think you do, or posted this is the wrong thread...? Im completely lost.


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## maniclion (Jan 10, 2009)

Fetusaurus Rex said:


> wow....who are you even talking about in this?
> 
> because his response was to me, and I know you are not talking about me because not a single thing you said describes me....Im 26 years old from Iowa and I said nothing about defacing a stop sign? and wouldnt classify myself as a thug by any means, unless you are classifying me based on the kind of music I listen to....?...You either totally fucked up on quoting and this isn't about me at all, or you don't know who I am but think you do, or posted this is the wrong thread...? Im completely lost.


I think he thinks you are soxmuscle, it's obvious that Questionboy is a cop with no keen eye for details so he will always be a beat cop and never make it to detective.....


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## ZECH (Jan 10, 2009)

maniclion said:


> The thing is is that the cop pulled his weapon with his finger on the trigger.....I believe no cop should be in a situation where they could easily mistake a gun for a tazer.
> 
> There are valuable lessons to be learned here, I feel just as sorry for the cop and his family as I do for the deceased and his family...  My friend was hit by a bus and the driver tried to commit suicide after he lost his job.....  Imagine you were to make a fatal mistake one day while doing your job, right?  I mean any of us could easily cause an accident to happen that takes a life how would you feel if everyone started telling you you're a piece of shit and that you did it on purpose you might start to believe them.....
> 
> You can tell I have really mixed emotions on this whole thing....



Absolutely. You make good points. Sadly, a taser is ALOT like a real gun. And I carry a glock model 22c with laser. It doesn't have a manual safety. I can see how it could be confused. But the taser is carried mainly in front on your belt and not on the side like a firearm usually. I think it would be hard to mistake it, but it's not impossible. Maybe there can be some changes made so this does not happen again.


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## maniclion (Jan 11, 2009)

dg806 said:


> Absolutely. You make good points. Sadly, a taser is ALOT like a real gun. And I carry a glock model 22c with laser. It doesn't have a manual safety. I can see how it could be confused. But the taser is carried mainly in front on your belt and not on the side like a firearm usually. I think it would be hard to mistake it, but it's not impossible. Maybe there can be some changes made so this does not happen again.


Like all Tasers should be carried on the opposite side of your handgun, I'd think that would already have been protocol but I guess not....


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## QuestionGuy (Jan 11, 2009)

maniclion said:


> he will always be a beat cop and never make it to detective.....



hahahahahha...well actually...Not that I need to explain my life story to anyone online because I really dont care...BUT, it doesn't work that way man, its not like in the movies..."Beat" and I repeat " "...cops have the most exciting and coolest job, detectives are just cops who investigate a crime after the fact and after the initial "beat" cops have done the most exciting and most IMPORTANT part...I have done work wiht Narcs and been on Vice as a "detective" neither of which are very apealing because its not like in the movies...Detectives have no autohirty over patrol officers becuase they are the same people just different jobs...our department rotates thru detectives, for example...EVERYONE starts out as a cop to gain experience you cant learn in a class room, then you move out to become a paper pusher (detective)...then after three - six years you must go back to patrol for a minimum of 1 year....Im not here to argue, i know you would never mouth off to me in a face to face situation, I respect everyones opinion on things but I jsut can't sit still when people are talking about things that they have no experience in....Im a melow person who just wants to live his life and be a part of his community.....this cop just fucked up, plain and simple he fucked up, and if his department is like my department, they will just stab him in the back and let him hang out to dry...But it is my assumption that he will not be charged in with any crime because he did not have an intent to shot his gun......and to say that a taser was not neccesary is not really true, it is very hard to control a persons body movements even when there are three cops around him...sure I can kick some serious ass but it is much harder to control a person wihtout serious bodily injurie, something only a person wiht experience knows................Either way, im not here to argue, i just want to life my life and be normal like everyone else, im nothing special, just a human man like all of you wiht the same emotions and feelings....I also love to educate everyone about how fucked up our job really is and how our administration will always save their own ass and make themselves look good thru our backs...........Peace and love to all...


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## QuestionGuy (Jan 11, 2009)

FURTHERMORE.......Lets just all get along and have a good conversation....I would love to take all of you on a ridealong to see the real side, i guarantee that I would have you on my side, But i cant take you all, So I would love to educate you on how it really is....I beleive in what I do so much that it is actually eating me up inside and I WILL NOT be able to do it for much longer and keep my health.........If you are really interested in learning about the other side I encourage you to a few things.........

I really encourage you to read this:

"A Professor's Street Lessons" By George L. Kirkham

"Why Cops Hate You" by Chuck Milland

also

I have been where you fear to go...
I have seen what you fear to see...
I have done what you fear to do...
All these things I've done for you.

I am the one you lean upon...
The one you cast your scorn upon...
The one you bring your troubles to...
All these people I've been for you.

The one you ask to stand apart...
The one you feel should have no heart...
The one you call the man in blue...
But I am human just like you.

And through the years I've come to see...
That I'm not what you ask of me...
So take this badge and take this gun...
Will you take it? Will anyone?

And when you watch a person die...
And hear a battered baby cry...
Then so you think that you can be
All those things you ask of me...?


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## AKIRA (Jan 11, 2009)

For someone who doesnt really care, you sure talk a lot.


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## Hench (Jan 11, 2009)

AKIRA said:


> For someone who doesnt really care, you sure talk a lot.



The exact same thought came into my head. Though he made a decent enough point.


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## maniclion (Jan 11, 2009)

QuestionGuy said:


> hahahahahha...well actually...Not that I need to explain my life story to anyone online because I really dont care...BUT, it doesn't work that way man, its not like in the movies..."Beat" and I repeat " "...cops have the most exciting and coolest job, detectives are just cops who investigate a crime after the fact and after the initial "beat" cops have done the most exciting and most IMPORTANT part...I have done work wiht Narcs and been on Vice as a "detective" neither of which are very apealing because its not like in the movies...Detectives have no autohirty over patrol officers becuase they are the same people just different jobs...our department rotates thru detectives, for example...EVERYONE starts out as a cop to gain experience you cant learn in a class room, then you move out to become a paper pusher (detective)...then after three - six years you must go back to patrol for a minimum of 1 year....Im not here to argue, i know you would never mouth off to me in a face to face situation, I respect everyones opinion on things but I jsut can't sit still when people are talking about things that they have no experience in....Im a melow person who just wants to live his life and be a part of his community.....this cop just fucked up, plain and simple he fucked up, and if his department is like my department, they will just stab him in the back and let him hang out to dry...But it is my assumption that he will not be charged in with any crime because he did not have an intent to shot his gun......and to say that a taser was not neccesary is not really true, it is very hard to control a persons body movements even when there are three cops around him...sure I can kick some serious ass but it is much harder to control a person wihtout serious bodily injurie, something only a person wiht experience knows................Either way, im not here to argue, i just want to life my life and be normal like everyone else, im nothing special, just a human man like all of you wiht the same emotions and feelings....I also love to educate everyone about how fucked up our job really is and how our administration will always save their own ass and make themselves look good thru our backs...........Peace and love to all...


I was just quipping on your lack of observation skills, beleive me I know plenty enough about cops because I had a job that put me in their presence for hours each day.  I bet your reports are also a fucking nightmare with your scatterbrained rambling.....


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## QuestionGuy (Jan 11, 2009)

nope not at all...in fact my reports for the most part are very good and hold im in court just fine....i write what comes in my mind and im sure there is no international rules on how to write shit online...........in fact, im very well educated and and speak three languages...english is my thirds language and I speak it with almost no accent....You didnt get my point in the previous threads, and you are continuing attacks on me so whatever...at least my M3 will beat your 1 series!!!!


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## min0 lee (Jan 12, 2009)

QuestionGuy said:


> .at least my M3 will beat your 1 series!!!!









 Oh no he didn't!


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## maniclion (Jan 12, 2009)

QuestionGuy said:


> nope not at all...in fact my reports for the most part are very good and hold im in court just fine....i write what comes in my mind and im sure there is no international rules on how to write shit online...........in fact, im very well educated and and speak three languages...english is my thirds language and I speak it with almost no accent....You didnt get my point in the previous threads, and you are continuing attacks on me so whatever...at least my M3 will beat your 1 series!!!!


Maybe but my 400hp X6 would smoke your M3.....


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## QuestionGuy (Jan 12, 2009)

fine then ill give you a ticket!


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 12, 2009)

QuestionGuy said:


> fine then ill give you a ticket!








Farva: It doesn't matter cause I'm going to win ten million dollars.
Thorny: What are you going to do with ten million dollars, and you can't say buy the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Farva: I'd buy a ten million dollar car.
Thorny: That's a good investment but I'd still pull you over.
Farva: Bull Shit. You couldn't pull me over, and even if you did I'd activate my car's wings and I'd fly away.


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## Will Brink (Jan 14, 2009)

Fetusaurus Rex said:


> ahh ok I understand I was wrong...



Yes you were. As I said, process worked as it was supposed to:
_____________________________________________________

OAKLAND, CA – BART issued a statement today regarding the arrest of former

BART Police Officer Johannes Mehserle involved in the death of Oscar Grant

on the morning of New Year’s Day at the Fruitvale BART Station.

“Yesterday Johannes Mehserle was arrested on an arrest warrant issued

by the Alameda County District Attorney’s office. *This comes after the

BART Police Department conducted a thorough investigation that involved

nine detectives, which BART Police turned over to District Attorney Thomas

Orloff on Monday, *January 12. BART Police Chief Gary Gee was informed that

an arrest warrant was issued and the Oakland Police Department had

effectuated an arrest. We’ve been asked to refrain from any further

comment regarding the arrest until Mr. Orloff addresses the media.”
______________________________________________________________


Don't know what the exact charges are yet, but I suspect the DA may try and go for a greater charge then is actually warranted by the evidence, to make the public happy and make a name for himself, etc.


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## Fetusaurus Rex (Jan 14, 2009)

WillBrink said:


> Yes you were. As I said, process worked as it was supposed to:
> _____________________________________________________
> 
> OAKLAND, CA ??? BART issued a statement today regarding the arrest of former
> ...



Time to go after the rich fucks now like Madoff, that guy needs to rot.


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