# Danger of NOT aspirating needle?



## BigBird (Dec 3, 2010)

I almost never get a trickle of blood appearing after pinning my delt with Test Cyp weekly and my glute with EQ.  However, tonight, a good stream of blood trickled from my delt upon removing needle after I finished plunging.  I never aspirate but I'm curious as to what, exactly is the danger when I hit a blood vessel like I think I just did.  I'm still getting the full dose of substance in my system, aren't I?


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## Life (Dec 3, 2010)

Well if you inject INTO a vein it could kill you, especially if there were air bubbles in there. If you just plow through a vein it isn't really going to effect anything. But you should always aspirate. Always. The danger is staying in the vein and injecting which is why you aspirate.  Sometimes you just bleed, I'm sure you'll be OK. If you start feeling sick you need to goto the ER though.


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## Retlaw (Dec 3, 2010)

Life said:


> Well if you inject INTO a vein it could kill you, especially if there were air bubbles in there. If you just plow through a vein it isn't really going to effect anything. But you should always aspirate. Always. The danger is staying in the vein and injecting which is why you aspirate.


  +1..  it take 1 sec !!  And then you will never ask this dumb question again bro !


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## heavyiron (Dec 3, 2010)

It takes a pretty large volume of air or oil to cause any serious problems. More than 3 cc's so don't sweat it. Sometimes the meds will hit your lungs right away if you inject in a vein and it will make you cough and taste BA in your mouth. It has happened to me about 5-6 times over the years.


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## JCBourne (Dec 3, 2010)

Taking short-cuts while using AAS it just simple stupid. Take the 1 second and aspirate man, don't be a dipshit.


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## VictorZ06 (Dec 3, 2010)

Some guys who have been using for several years don't even know what aspirating is.  You really do need a large amount of air to mess up.


/V


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## moarwhey123 (Dec 3, 2010)

VictorZ06 said:


> Some guys who have been using for several years don't even know what aspirating is.  You really do need a large amount of air to mess up.
> 
> 
> /V



as that is true...
you still want to aspirate
just incase
why risk it ?


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## heavyiron (Dec 3, 2010)

In 23 years I have never once aspirated.


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## Buzzard (Dec 3, 2010)

Are you shittin me?


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## VictorZ06 (Dec 3, 2010)

I also do not aspirate, another old school myth.  

I did so many years back...but no longer.  The EBP and ACIP also do not recommend aspiration.  Some argue not to aspirate vaccines, but to aspirate other drugs.  Jet injections are not aspirated.

*According to the CDC they state-*

"Aspiration - Aspiration is the process of pulling back on the plunger of the syringe prior to injection to ensure that the medication is not injected into a blood vessel. Although this practice is advocated by some experts, the procedure is not required because no large blood vessels exist at the recommended injection sites."

"Aspiration is not indicated for SC injections of vaccines, immunizations and insulin."

"Aspiration is not indicated for IM injections of vaccines and immunizations."

*STTI International Nursing Research Congress Vancouver, July 2009*

*
Organizations which state aspiration is not necessary for immunizations & vaccines are:*


Centers for Disease Control (CDC)
Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP)
Department of Health Services (DHS)
American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP)
U.K. Department of Health (DoH)
World Health Organization (WHO)


*References*:

1. Atkinson, W. L., Pickering, L. K., Schwartz, B., Weniger, B. G., Iskander, J. K., & Watson, J. C. (2002). General Recommendations on Immunization: Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) and the American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP). Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 51, RR2. 1-33.

2. Chiodini, J. (2001). Best practice in vaccine administration. Nursing Standard, 16(7), 35-38. 

3. Diggle, L. (2007). Injection technique for immunization. Practice Nurse, 33(1), 34-37.

4. Gammel, J. A. (1927). Arterial embolism: an unusual complication following the intramuscular administration of bismuth. Journal of the American Medical Association, 88, 998-1000.

5. Ipp, M., Taddio, A., Sam, J., Goldbach, M., & Parkin, P. C. (2007). Vaccine related pain: randomized controlled trial of two injection technique Archives of Disease in Childhood,92,1105-1108.

6. Li, J.T., Lockey, R. F., Bernstein, I. L., Portnoy, J. M., & Nicklas, R. A. (2003). Allergen immunotherapy: A practice parameter. Annuals of Allergy, Asthma, & Immunology, 1-40.

7. Livermore, P. (2003). Teaching home administration of sub-cutaneous methotrexate. Paediatric Nursing, 15(3), 28-32.

8. Middleton, D. B., Zimmerman, R. K., & Mitchell, K. B. (2003). Vaccine schedules and procedures, 2003. The Journal of Family Practice, 52(1), S36-S46.

9. Nicoli, L. H., & Hesby, A. (2002). Intramuscular injection: An integrative research review and guidelines for evidence-based practice. Applied Nursing Research,16(2), 149-162.

10. Ozel, A., Yavuz, H., & Erkul, I. (1995). Gangrene after penicillin injection: A case report. The Turkish Journal of Pediatrics, 37(1), 567-71.

11. Peragallo-Dittko, V. (1995). Aspiration of the subcutaneous insulin injection: Clinical evaluation of needle size and amount of subcutaneous fat. The Diabetes Educator, 21(4), 291-296.

12. Roger, M. A., & King, L. (2000). Drawing up and administering intramuscular injections: A review of the literature. Journal of Advanced Nursing, 31(3), 574-582. 

13. Talbert, J. L., Haslam, R. H. & Haller, J. A. (1967). Gangrene of the foot following intramuscular injection in the lateral thigh: A case report with recommendations for prevention. The Journal of Pediatrics, 70(1), 110-114. 

14. Workman, B. (1999). Safe injection techniques. Nursing Standard, 13 (39), 47-53. 

15. World Health Organization (2004). Immunization in Practice, Module 6: Holding an immunization session. Immunization in Practice: A practical resource guide for health workers ???2004 update,1-29. 

16. Center for Nursing History at Misericordia University: http://www.misericordia.edu17. Levels of Evidence, Canadian Medical Association & Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (2001). Available at:http://www.cebm.net/index18. Melnyk, B. M., & Fineout-Overholt, E. (2005). Evidence-Based Practice in Nursing & Healthcare: A Guide to Best Practice. Philadelphia: Lippincott, Williams & Wilkins.



/V


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## World-Pharma.org (Dec 3, 2010)

Great post *VictorZ06*


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## MDR (Dec 3, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> In 23 years I have never once aspirated.



Around the same amount of time, and I've never bothered, either.


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## Db52280 (Dec 3, 2010)

Man last week when my Wife gave me my shot. I don't know if we got some into a vein but we always aspirate. I got really light headed, started to dry heave, and sweat heavily. It was also my first time with test 500 but I have never experienced anything like that before. Any ideas?


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## World-Pharma.org (Dec 3, 2010)

Dear Db52280, test 500 is way too much concentrate mgs in 1ml. Its will never be FDA approved for 500mg/ml.

best-regards

wp


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## Retlaw (Dec 4, 2010)

VictorZ06 said:


> I also do not aspirate, another old school myth.
> 
> I did so many years back...but no longer. The EBP and ACIP also do not recommend aspiration. Some argue not to aspirate vaccines, but to aspirate other drugs. Jet injections are not aspirated.
> 
> ...


  I learn something new everyday...  Good post.


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## blazeftp (Dec 4, 2010)

My first shot i forgot to aspirate.
Hit a vein.

After i shot i felt extremely light headed,
Started coughing uncontrollably.
Felt sick.
Horrible taste in my mouth and was very short of breath during the day.
Really bad sweating due to freaking the fuck out.

It passed after a few hours but wasn't the best start to my day.

To aspirate all you need to do is flick the top of the plunger.

some say its no recommended but gives me a little piece of mind when injecting.


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## The Prototype (Dec 4, 2010)

Good post V. I guess I won't aspirate anymore. It was a pain in the ass anyways. No pun intended.


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## heavyiron (Dec 4, 2010)

Aspirating with one hand is next to impossible anyway. The needle moves around so much that you might be near a vein one moment and then the needle moves closer or further away. By the time you inject the placement of the needle may not be where it was when you originally pulled back on the plunger. By all means aspirate if you like. I just never have.


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## Saney (Dec 4, 2010)

I always aspirate only because thats how I was taught.. and i'm pretty good as using one hand to do it when I shoot something warm inside my ass 

Anyhow, one time i Injected and I become VERY short of breath and coughed for the next couple days only moments after injecting.. kinda scared the shit out of me, but I was fine.


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## stfuandliftbtch (Dec 4, 2010)

i have injected 50+ times withOUT aspirating once. If you inject air into vein, yes, you could possibly die. But injecting gear into a vein/artery on accident will not kill you. The gear is entered so quick that it reaches your lungs in about a minutes, and might give your shortness of breath...that is about it. If you knick a vein/artery, you most likely will have a fat lump you can feel, and it will hurt like a B!T$H for almost a week.

And usually the extremely tiny amount of air usually won't even be injected in you. It will push out the remainder or the gear through the needle, leaving your needle with air in it, not your veins.


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## Life (Dec 4, 2010)

Is injecting into the vein a waste then?


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## VictorZ06 (Dec 4, 2010)

I've heard stories where some guys try to aspirate, and while doing so the needle would break apart from the syringe because of all the movement of trying to get both hands behind a glute....not to mention the movement causing more scar tissue.



/V


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## paolo584 (Dec 4, 2010)

^^^^^^Thats exactly why I dont aspirate. My hands shake so much, I think the needle might break.


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## underscore (Dec 4, 2010)

I aspirate. If there was an infection deep the muscle that I couldn't see visibly, aspirating would be a slight biopsy. Not to mention if you do inject into a vein even a small amount, it can cause inflammation and blood clotting. Although your chances are slim in the IM places we inject. I do it just because I'm like that.


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## klc9100 (Dec 4, 2010)

error


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## Arnold (Dec 4, 2010)

Life said:


> Well if you inject INTO a vein it could kill you, especially if there were air bubbles in there.



I was a medic in the army and I worked in a hospital, a few air bubbles, even a full cc of air injected into a vein would not kill you.


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## Life (Dec 4, 2010)

Prince said:


> I was a medic in the army and I worked in a hospital, a few air bubbles, even a full cc of air injected into a vein would not kill you.



 Really? Interesting, I've always heard lots of warnings about embolism and that the amount varies from person to person and can even be effected by the position your body is in. It goes through the right side of the heart and then out to the lungs but can get trapped between the heart and lungs.  *shrug*


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## dave 236 (Dec 4, 2010)

I don't aspirate and I've haven't seen Doctors do it on Im shots.


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## The Prototype (Dec 4, 2010)

dave 236 said:


> I don't aspirate and I've haven't seen Doctors do it on Im shots.



Good point. Never seen a nurse or doc aspirate either.


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## Tesla (Dec 4, 2010)

I stopped aspirating about 3 mos ago......I cut everything with Grapeseed oil which makes it harder to pull back the plunger.....I stopped after I aspirated during a delt shot and the needle popped out and there was too much movement......As long as I hit the correct IM injection spots I've been fine....No trace of blood the last 3 mos.......When I aspirated I was sore as fuck from all the needle movement


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## blergs. (Dec 4, 2010)

BigBird said:


> I almost never get a trickle of blood appearing after pinning my delt with Test Cyp weekly and my glute with EQ.  However, tonight, a good stream of blood trickled from my delt upon removing needle after I finished plunging.  I never aspirate but I'm curious as to what, exactly is the danger when I hit a blood vessel like I think I just did.  I'm still getting the full dose of substance in my system, aren't I?



it happens ALL THE TIME, to others and me.

just aspirate WHEN your in beforeyou inject. no blood then your good.
when you pull otu you might have goen threw a vain.
no worries. and also dotn worry about the 0.0007% ml you may loos its NOT going ot effect your cycle.

liek one guy i remember was worried about wastign the lil drop left in the needle so he would lick it clean ! HAHAHA .

people make things so complicated somtimes.


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## blergs. (Dec 4, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> I*t takes a pretty large volume of air or oil to cause any serious problems. More than 3 cc's* so don't sweat it. Sometimes the meds will hit your lungs right away if you inject in a vein and it will make you cough and taste BA in your mouth. It has happened to me about 5-6 times over the years.


yeppers!.
also yes to the lungs things. I HATE THAT FEELING!


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## White (Dec 4, 2010)

Good thread! I always aspirate but I'm still new to this, once I get a hang of things I might try without aspirating...


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## blergs. (Dec 4, 2010)

White said:


> Good thread! I always aspirate but I'm still new to this, once I get a hang of things I might try without aspirating...


WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU!! did you not see themain point?!!?
 ASPIRATE SO YOUR SAFE!!
you can still have an _oil embolism_ and DIE!

dont be studpid! aspirate EVERY TIME.

all we posted was you need more air into your body then a coulple bubbles to kill you (stop your heart) that DOASNT MEAN the whole 3ml shot wont possibly killyou or fuk you up if you injected the whole thing into a vain.
*no where in this entire thread did we say dont aspirate.*


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## blergs. (Dec 4, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> It takes a pretty large volume of air or oil to cause any serious problems. More than 3 cc's so don't sweat it. Sometimes the meds will hit your lungs right away if you inject in a vein and it will make you cough and taste BA in your mouth. It has happened to me about 5-6 times over the years.


if you ment right into your blood stream/vain then i dissagree.

now you mean into a muscle and some get into blood then sure no worries.


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## heavyiron (Dec 4, 2010)

blergs. said:


> if you ment right into your blood stream/vain then i dissagree.
> 
> now you mean into a muscle and some get into blood then sure no worries.


A few years back I read various studies where they tried to kill animals with oil and air embolisms. Air averaged over 30cc's and oil over 5cc's when injected directly into a vein. Additionally it is common for an IV to introduce air directly into a vein especially if the nurse does not purge it correctly. I wouldn't do this on purpose but a bit of air or oil in a vein is not deadly the vast majority of the time.


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## cutright (Dec 4, 2010)

Heavyirons right in my job we run IV's you always get a little air in the line...havent seen it hurt anyone yet. And in emergency situations when we push meds IM we never aspirate


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Dec 4, 2010)

The only time I aspirate is when injecting Tren. 

Some people seem to think that Tren cough is caused by a bit of Tren entering the vein. 
And since I am scared shitless of this... I always do it when injecting Tren because I am petrified of Tren cough.


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## VictorZ06 (Dec 4, 2010)

I've had a tren cough last for a solid 15 minutes....it broke me.  Almost passed out from coughing so damn hard.  I always mix my tren with another oil when I take it now, usually test.  Hasn't happened again....knock on wood!


/V


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## Db52280 (Dec 4, 2010)

World-Pharma.org said:


> Dear Db52280, test 500 is way too much concentrate mgs in 1ml. Its will never be FDA approved for 500mg/ml.
> 
> best-regards
> 
> wp


 
Ya I know that, it was my first time with it and I have used up to 400mg in a single shot. I don't think the extra 100 would make that much difference. Some of it must have entered a vein.


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## BigBird (Dec 5, 2010)

Thanks for all the posts.  As mentioned, I had a blood stream rush from my delt and down my arm like a runaway train and faster than I could wipe it before it dripped off my elbow.  It immediately stopped bleeding when I put pressure on it though.  Yesterday I noticed a small (quarter-sized?) bruise at the spot I injected.  I can massage it and it's not even tender or sore.  I've injected over the years probably a couple hundred times between glutes and delts and this has happened probably 3-5 times total.  I do remember getting IM vaccines during Basic, etc and they never aspirated; as well as an IM shot in delt of Toradol by doc back in May and he didn't aspirate either.  The weird thing is I've always injected in the same area of delt/glute and usually never even get a trickle.  I just it was odd that I hit the same area of the right delt that I hit earlier and it seems like a blood vessel decided to "move" to this same location.  Since I always alternate delts and glutes, I've got a full 2 weeks before I have to use the right delt again. 
Based on some of these posts, I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing and not worry about it.  That is, keep up all common sense sanitary/disinfection habits, get air bubbles out of syringe, etc and then just plunge and GROW.


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## muscle37 (Dec 6, 2010)

ok guys...if theres one thing i know more about than aas and working out its medicine. i have worked in the medical field specifically transplant as a rn for several years. truth be told majority of people nurses doctors and everyone else licensed to give injections do not aspirate. when we run iv drips on pumps they get air in them all the time and these are running through lines that sit in the heart. Arterial ines in peoples radial and femoral arteries get little air bubbles in them from time to time and it messes up the monitoring of the waveform...so what do we do...flush it out with saline. bottom line...speaking from experience of a trained medical professional a little air here and there is harmless. no one knows how much air it exactly takes to get air embolism bc it depends on anatomy and cardivascule functioning but its at least three cc's. if u want to aspirate go ahead most text books say too...is it going to kill u if u dont...NO it wont. the thing that always bugs me when i get blood leakage after a pin is knowing that the blood more than likely served as a transporter for some of my oil to leak out needles pathway, which is why i sometimes leave the needle in for a moment to allow for absorption or if it does happen to be in a vein to allow for normal cardiac flow and cardiac output to carry it away from the site. once again though more times than not if u get blood return u went through a vein and not directly in it especially if u did a try IM angle. so for all u non-aspirators rest assure u aint going to die...if so we would kill people in hospitals and clinics everyday and we dont.


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## muscle37 (Dec 6, 2010)

your body develops collateral blood flow allow the time so it is very likely that there wasnt a vein there before. new capillaries pop up here and there all the time.



BigBird said:


> Thanks for all the posts. As mentioned, I had a blood stream rush from my delt and down my arm like a runaway train and faster than I could wipe it before it dripped off my elbow. It immediately stopped bleeding when I put pressure on it though. Yesterday I noticed a small (quarter-sized?) bruise at the spot I injected. I can massage it and it's not even tender or sore. I've injected over the years probably a couple hundred times between glutes and delts and this has happened probably 3-5 times total. I do remember getting IM vaccines during Basic, etc and they never aspirated; as well as an IM shot in delt of Toradol by doc back in May and he didn't aspirate either. The weird thing is I've always injected in the same area of delt/glute and usually never even get a trickle. I just it was odd that I hit the same area of the right delt that I hit earlier and it seems like a blood vessel decided to "move" to this same location. Since I always alternate delts and glutes, I've got a full 2 weeks before I have to use the right delt again.
> Based on some of these posts, I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing and not worry about it. That is, keep up all common sense sanitary/disinfection habits, get air bubbles out of syringe, etc and then just plunge and GROW.


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## VictorZ06 (Dec 6, 2010)

muscle37 said:


> ok guys...if theres one thing i know more about than aas and working out its medicine. i have worked in the medical field specifically transplant as a rn for several years. truth be told majority of people nurses doctors and everyone else licensed to give injections do not aspirate. when we run iv drips on pumps they get air in them all the time and these are running through lines that sit in the heart. Arterial ines in peoples radial and femoral arteries get little air bubbles in them from time to time and it messes up the monitoring of the waveform...so what do we do...flush it out with saline. bottom line...speaking from experience of a trained medical professional a little air here and there is harmless. no one knows how much air it exactly takes to get air embolism bc it depends on anatomy and cardivascule functioning but its at least three cc's. if u want to aspirate go ahead most text books say too...is it going to kill u if u dont...NO it wont. the thing that always bugs me when i get blood leakage after a pin is knowing that the blood more than likely served as a transporter for some of my oil to leak out needles pathway, which is why i sometimes leave the needle in for a moment to allow for absorption or if it does happen to be in a vein to allow for normal cardiac flow and cardiac output to carry it away from the site. once again though more times than not if u get blood return u went through a vein and not directly in it especially if u did a try IM angle. so for all u non-aspirators rest assure u aint going to die...if so we would kill people in hospitals and clinics everyday and we dont.




Good post, thanks for sharing.  It's good to hear real world/life experiences and to back up my findings in the studies I originally posted.


/V


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## muscle37 (Dec 6, 2010)

Funny thing about this...as I sat outside one of my patients room and wrote this reply his iv pump starting beeping and the alarm said air in line (there was a tiny bubble or two in the line infusing an antibiotic called unasyn that we give to fresh kidney transplants) know what the fix was....? Hit the restart button haha. Was kinda just a funny coincidence. So see real life happening that's harmless.


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## BigBird (Dec 6, 2010)

muscle37 said:


> Funny thing about this...as I sat outside one of my patients room and wrote this reply his iv pump starting beeping and the alarm said air in line (there was a tiny bubble or two in the line infusing an antibiotic called unasyn that we give to fresh kidney transplants) know what the fix was....? Hit the restart button haha. Was kinda just a funny coincidence. So see real life happening that's harmless.


 
Good stuff.  Pretty muich validates my initial gut feelings on this whole aspirating thing anyway.  It's not like we're plunging 3 ccs of empty air into our muscles.  All this reassurance and real life examples are good enough for me to relax and feel comfortable with what I'm doing.


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