# Converting Cattle Pellets.  All The Info You Need To Homebrew Fina



## JerseyDevil (Aug 12, 2004)

This informative article is courtesy of Skye from Anabolicminds  

Several people on the boards and in PMs have been asking lately about not having access to gear, ether because of lack of funds or source. No one can help you with the first and given the political climate no one is likely to help you with the second one. This leaves you with several options to legally (or semi-legally) obtain gear. Lets just forget about the prohormones here and go to the good stuff. 

Cattle implants are really the only practical legal source of gear that I know. There are some 30 types of different implants of which 2 are of any real concern to us. The first is Finaplix-H which is a form of trenbolone acetate pellets containing 20mg a piece, 10 pellets to a dose and 10 doses to a cart, 10 carts to a box. (That works out to 2grams of trenbolone acetate per cart or 20grams per box, you can buy it by the cart if you look around.) The second one is Synovex-H with has 20 mg estradiol benzoate and 200mg testosterone propionate. The problem with this one is the estradiol benzoate. It MUST be removed before giving it to any animal that you don't want to compete in a wet-T contest. This is covered in the links provided.

I don't recommend the conversion kits because they are expensive for what you get. Get your chemical supplies from www.lemelange.com (chemicals are cheap and good quality) and your glassware and filters from getpinz.

This is by far my preferred method of making fina from pellets: http://www.basskilleronline.com/crystal_tren.html
For the Synovex-H to testosterone no ester (base):
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/show...7391#post127391
For the Synovex-H to testosterone propionate (a bit steep for my taste)
http://www.eagleresearch.biz/

A couple of notes on the above links. If you are making testosterone no ester (base) then I would repeat the step of using the lye, wash it twice in other words. You don't lose that much more and it doesn't take that long. Well worth the peace of mind. Also they describe ether adding the water very slowly or putting a small hole in container to help form big easy to filter crystals. Another method (Notacow's) is to pre freeze the distilled water and allow it to melt into the product. This one works very well.

Needed Chemicals:
Benzyl Alcohol, 1 quart $12.50 
Benzyl Benzoate 1/2 quart $10.00
Cottonseed Oil 1/2 quart $12.50 (or grapeseed or sesame seed oil from the store works just as well)
3 bottles of heat at Wally world $2.25
1 Bottle Red Devil Lye also at Wally world $4.35
1 gallon of distilled water from (Guess where?) Wally world $0.59

Glassware:
Whatman, PVDF Membrane, .20u $18.00 for 3 of them (one spare)
3 50 ML sterile glass vial $7.50
*5cc syringes 25 count 7.50 (enough for 25 batches, this is optional as you can use the 3cc ones, I just prefer 5cc)
Everything else you should have around the house. 

Total cost of chemicals: $42.19 not including shipping
Total cost of glassware: $33.00. 
Total cost of homebrew supplies without kits: $75.19
The only kit I know for sure that renders testosterone propionate is Eagle Research and there solution is $35 for 5 carts worth or $60 for a box worth.

The difference here for the fina and test is 1. The product (fina) is better using Notacow method. 2. It is much cheaper per cycle for and especially after the first one. The next time around (and there will be a next time around, I have never talked to anybody that did "just one cycle") as all you have to get is a new filters and vials. Or look at it this way, it is $230 for a cycles worth of low quality fina with testosterone propionate (maybe) using a kit with and for this and every time after or $195.19 for high quality fina and test base the first time along with all the homebrew supplies (chemical) you will need for years and $137 every time after for a long time. If you want testosterone propionate then just buy the solution from Eagle Research. If you had access to those types of chemicals you wouldn't need to be doing all of this.

2 carts of Finaplex-H about $70
5 carts Synovex-H is $50
All the above is with no shipping cost included

Another reason to do it this way (without kits) is that you can make pro fina very easily given that you have everything in powder form. If you need detailed instructions on the proper way to make gear from powder with pictures then go here: http://www.massmonsterz.com/forum/s...ighlight=test+e 
75mg prop/fina is easily made:

For 50ml of pro fina:
3.75 grams of trenbolone acetate
3.75 grams of testosterone propionate
1.5ml of Benzyl Alcohol
5ml of Benzyl Benzoate
about 36ml of oil of your choice

For 50ml of pro fina made with test base (Warning, have NOT done this myself, I was told that it worked and can see no reason why it shouldn't but haven't done. Remember the adage about free advice)
For 50ml of pro fina:
3.75 grams of trenbolone acetate
3.75 grams of testosterone no ester
2.5ml of Benzyl Alcohol
7.5ml of Benzyl Benzoate
about 36ml of oil of your choice
For both the above first mix the solvents together in a glass bottle of your choice Then dissolve the test first (follow the order here, will make life easier). Once you have done that (may have to heat) then add your trenbolone acetate (may need a little more heat). Once you have a nice clear solution you then add all but about 10ml of your oil. Filter and use the last 10ml to fill to volume. 

For 20ml of fina at 200mg/ml (this is a bit stiff):
4 grams of trenbolone acetate
1ml of Benzyl Alcohol
3ml of Benzyl Benzoate
about 13ml of oil of your choice

For 20ml of fina at 100mg/ml:
2 grams of trenbolone acetate
.6ml of Benzyl Alcohol
2ml of Benzyl Benzoate
about 16ml of oil of your choice

For 20ml of test prop at 100mg/ml (don't go over this as it will hurt):
2 grams of testosterone propionate
.6ml of Benzyl Alcohol
2.4ml of Benzyl Benzoate
about 15 to 16ml of oil of your choice

For 20ml of test prop at75 mg/ml :
1.5 grams of testosterone propionate
.6ml of Benzyl Alcohol
2ml of Benzyl Benzoate
about 16ml of oil of your choice

For 20ml of test base at 75 mg/ml (don't go over this as it will hurt):
1.5 grams of testosterone no ester
1ml of Benzyl Alcohol
3ml of Benzyl Benzoate
about 15ml of oil of your choice

For 20ml of test base at 50mg/ml:
1gram of testosterone no ester
.6ml of Benzyl Alcohol
2.4ml of Benzyl Benzoate
about 17ml of oil of your choice


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## JerseyDevil (Aug 14, 2004)

I just noticed two of the supplied links do not work.  But it is too late to edit.

The link shown below "For the Synovex-H to testosterone no ester (base):" Use
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5436&page=1&pp=30

Then 7 paragraphs down, the MassMonster link, use:
http://www.massmonsterz.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1107&highlight=test+e


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## BoneCrusher (Aug 15, 2004)

I am interested in knowing the neg's on this.  I have hep-c anti-bodies in my system ( a blood transfusion in '79) and need to be catious.  I ave never had the sysmptoms and get my enzymes checked every six to ten months and all is cool there.  I sooooooo wanna use what ever I can over the next year ... I just don't wanna turn my liver into pudding in the process.  Thanks for your advice here.


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## JerseyDevil (Aug 15, 2004)

BC, I in no way can profess to know _anything_ about using gear with a diagnosis of hep-c.  My only advice would be to use testosterone only, and avoid orals (which are known to be liver toxic).  Testosterone, even with large doses (500-750mg/week) is not particularly hard on the liver.


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## BoneCrusher (Aug 15, 2004)

Thanks for the tip ... really!


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## Mike Brozack (Sep 7, 2004)

*Thanks BoneCrusher*

The info you provided was extremely helpful.  As to your questions about hep-c, I may be able to provide some answers in the near future.  I would, however; say it would be common sense to stay away from orals since they are known to be liver toxic.


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## Nachez (Sep 25, 2005)

how do you get the product out of the Finaplix-H pellets?


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## GFR (Sep 25, 2005)

Just buy Tren and save yourself all the time and potential mistakes and problems. It has been easily available for the last 6 years.


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## BCC (Sep 26, 2005)

Yeah, finaplix and synovex are junk. Disasters waiting to happen.


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## Nachez (Sep 26, 2005)

can u eat the pellets? or is that  a bad Idea?


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## MB14 (Mar 30, 2008)

i dont belive they are junk, imo most ug labs in the us are using the process to get tren.


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## musclegains (May 8, 2008)

hey, it says that the name of the file has changed when i went to basskillers link on turning finaplex-h to tren. can you find the original file you mentioned?


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## ZECH (May 9, 2008)

Search his site for it.


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## cooter (Dec 14, 2008)

hey i got a box of fina h  100 dose/10 carts,, my ?.. cart yeilds 2,000mg tren with finafast 4gr kit so can i split box in 1/4s,,,, 2 1/2 carts per 10gr kit? and yeild 5,000 per kit total 20,000mgs box    thanks   and u can get fina h or s at local S&S FEED STORE IN STOCK OR TWO DAY REFRIGERATED,,, very easy just b educated good rap and dress the part (farm clothes)  works fine


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## TexanTA1996 (Dec 15, 2008)

TJ Cline said:


> Just buy Tren and save yourself all the time and potential mistakes and problems. It has been easily available for the last 6 years.



Foolish.  A child could make Tren.  

Buy the Fina-Farm instructional DVD.  It shows you step by step how to make tren with the pellets.  If you can't make tren watching this DVD, you should shoot yourself.


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## min0 lee (Dec 15, 2008)

TexanTA1996 said:


> Foolish.  A child could make Tren.
> 
> Buy the Fina-Farm instructional DVD.  It shows you step by step how to make tren with the pellets.  If you can't make tren watching this DVD, you should shoot yourself.



He posted that on 09-26-2005 and he's been banned for a couple of years  so I doubt he will respond.


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## basskiller (Dec 29, 2009)

musclegains said:


> hey, it says that the name of the file has changed when i went to basskillers link on turning finaplex-h to tren. can you find the original file you mentioned?



link is fixed


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## min0 lee (Dec 29, 2009)

BoneCrusher said:


> I am interested in knowing the neg's on this.  I have hep-c anti-bodies in my system ( a blood transfusion in '79) .


I never knew this, I also have Hep C. 



JerseyDevil said:


> BC, I in no way can profess to know _anything_ about using gear with a diagnosis of hep-c.  My only advice would be to use testosterone only, and avoid orals (which are known to be liver toxic).  Testosterone, even with large doses (500-750mg/week) is not particularly hard on the liver.



Is this true? Well now...



min0 lee said:


> He posted that on 09-26-2005 and he's been banned for a couple of years  so I doubt he will respond.



He's back.


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## dcturbdd (Mar 16, 2010)

*Real deal*

works perfect


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## dcturbdd (Mar 16, 2010)

*Fina or syn*

what gains better


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## dcturbdd (Mar 16, 2010)

*componet th*

what about componet th is it easy to turn to tren


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## dcturbdd (Mar 16, 2010)

*cattle pellet scams?*

is there any need to worry about an kind of fake cattle pellets or they all pretty well safe to order as far as quality..synovex h will be synovex h ?


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## unclem (Jun 6, 2010)

follow basskillers picture by picture and you will have no problem making your own fina. there are no fakes that i know of on fina pellets. i make it all the time and its clear golden and i make it strong. imo


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## KelJu (Jun 6, 2010)

I found fina kits on amazon. This looks sketchy. 

Amazon.com: Finaplix-H Cartridge (10 Dose): Kitchen & Dining


Opinions anyone?


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## BigBoiH (Jun 7, 2010)

Thats not a fina kit. That is a 10 dose box of fina. As far as I know fina "kits" are illegal but the substance is not.........yet.
Nothing sketchy about it. Seller is a vet supplier and has over 10,000 sales with 1% unhappy feed back


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## daltonjames22 (Jul 27, 2010)

*first timer. please help*

my bud does this and wants me to get on with him!!! im not gaining enough, as i am not useing anything but pre workout (jack3d) and protine (nitro core)strawbery... but i can get the pellets. i do not know percisly how to (break down, boil out,filter, then mix with oil,then inject?????) if u could help with information so i know for sure i dont do it wrong it would be much apreciated

 thank you


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## unclem (Jul 28, 2010)

i know there going to stop selling pellets. but does anyone no when?


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## juggernaut (Aug 3, 2010)

how would go experimenting with making test enth?


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## Built (Aug 3, 2010)

You mean, from pellets? You can't. You'd have to know how to esterify test base. You wanna make enanth, you'll have to buy the raw powder.


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## OTG85 (Aug 3, 2010)

unclem said:


> i know there going to stop selling pellets. but does anyone no when?


 
time to stock up 100.00 for 50 ml of pure tren cant beat that


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## juggernaut (Aug 4, 2010)

Built said:


> You mean, from pellets? You can't. You'd have to know how to esterify test base. You wanna make enanth, you'll have to buy the raw powder.


I know that, I also found a place that advertises here for powder. I'm so intrigued to do this...Hey Built, wanna be my sexy Igor assistant and create a new breed of frankenbeasts?


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## Built (Aug 4, 2010)

Sure. Except in your case, we'll just implant the pellets and tell the kids it's this new type of dermal anchor thingie when they spot the lump behind your ear.


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## juggernaut (Aug 4, 2010)

you gonna shoot me in the ass MA?


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## Built (Aug 4, 2010)

I was thinking behind the ear, like they do with cattle. I mean, why mess with success?


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## juggernaut (Aug 4, 2010)

Built said:


> I was thinking behind the ear, like they do with cattle. I mean, why mess with success?



True. shoot me baby....right behind the ear.


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## sambaga (Aug 8, 2010)

*Question about solution in natacow process.*

I,m new at attempting to make my own tren acetate. So please excuse this question ,but can someone please tell me what they are refering to when they mention (finakits-solution) , Is it posible that the magic solution everyone  is refering to just a pre mix of the benzo alchohol,and the benzo benoate..Because i,m so confused i,ve made my mind to stick to a brewing  method where you add your own ( BA AND BB). I,m imagioning that it can,t be to different than the solution. I want to make 4gram kit with your method ,but your recipe mentions the finakits solution. and i don,t and can,t find out what website carries the finakits or solution even if i wanted to buy the kit. Thanks


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## sambaga (Aug 8, 2010)

what are finakits and were can i find them. Ikeep hearing about the magic solution from finakits,but i,ll admit i have no clue. I,m assuming it,s a mixture of benzoalchhol, and benzobenate, but to do the natacow system it calls for tha (solution) and i have no clue as to what it is .Can some one fill me in on #1 what is a finakit and#2 what is the solution everyone is refering to.


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## superted (Aug 8, 2010)

Very interesting man Thx

Been wanting to try for some.time, I have access to all the raws and I always my own orals

Will def be bookmarks this and doing much research over next few months

Thank you


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## TUF-FKR (Sep 14, 2010)

legendkiller85 said:


> time to stock up 100.00 for 50 ml of pure tren cant beat that



WHERE???  


On another note.....

  I wish the links worked on the first post of this thread for  the how to, still not completely informative for a rookie.  Can anyone give me a ballpark idea of how much one BOX (10 cartridges) will convert to in ML of liquid tren from Finaplex-H.


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## TUF-FKR (Sep 14, 2010)

One more thing..  I see people asking about fina-kits.  From what I have been told those are illegal now.  Buying all the items IN the kit separately "technically" is NOT illegal.  So, I would attempt to purchase all the items separately from the first post in this thread.  I am in the process of trying this myself and i will share the results.


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## OTG85 (Sep 14, 2010)

TUF-FKR said:


> One more thing.. I see people asking about fina-kits. From what I have been told those are illegal now. Buying all the items IN the kit separately "technically" is NOT illegal. So, I would attempt to purchase all the items separately from the first post in this thread. I am in the process of trying this myself and i will share the results.


 
4,000 grams (2 boxes) will make 40ml


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## TUF-FKR (Sep 14, 2010)

legendkiller85 said:


> 4,000 grams (2 boxes) will make 40ml



That doesnt seem right.  Considering the box costs $400 online...  That means it costs about $500 (chemicals too) to get 20ml of liquid tren??  Man, that is steep.  I would almost rather try to find a source for $100 for 10ml....

I hope those calculations are wrong...

One more thing, what kind of dosage are you guys doing with this?  Last time I tried this home brew (someone else made it) it was 1cc every other day.  I did it for 4 weeks and had ridiculous results.  I actually cut 40 pounds of fat and my strength went through the roof for my size.  I went from 230lbs to 185lb and almost 0 body fat.  

Just curious to hear any other success stories. with this.


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## Built (Sep 14, 2010)

legendkiller85 said:


> 4,000 grams (2 boxes) will make 40ml





TUF-FKR said:


> That doesnt seem right.  Considering the box costs $400 online...  That means it costs about $500 (chemicals too) to get 20ml of liquid tren??  Man, that is steep.  I would almost rather try to find a source for $100 for 10ml....
> 
> I hope those calculations are wrong...





JerseyDevil said:


> Finaplix-H which is a form of trenbolone acetate pellets containing 20mg a piece, 10 pellets to a dose and 10 doses to a cart, 10 carts to a box. (That works out to 2grams of trenbolone acetate per cart or 20grams per box, you can buy it by the cart if you look around.)



2 boxes gives you 40g = 40,000mg of tren, which may be dosed at 100mg/ml.

A 10ml amp will thus contain a gram of tren. 

Two boxes will make you 40 (forty) amps of tren ace.


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## TUF-FKR (Sep 14, 2010)

Built said:


> 2 boxes gives you 40g = 40,000mg of tren, which may be dosed at 100mg/ml.
> 
> A 10ml amp will thus contain a gram of tren.
> 
> Two boxes will make you 40 (forty) amps of tren ace.




Hey Built, thanks.  That makes sense.  So, what about dosing?  I never saw anyone respond.  Previously I was 1cc every other day for 4 weeks.  What kind of dosing have others done?  

And YES, I am bringing this thread back from the dead!!!  Great thread though..


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## Built (Sep 14, 2010)

If your tren ace was dosed at 100mg/ml, you were taking 350mg weekly.

If it was 50mg/ml, you were taking 175mg weekly. 

Not sure what strength you were running, or what else you were running it with. Tren's a progestin, right? I'm thinking you probably want to run it 2:1 with test, like you would with other progestins, such as nandrolone - but ask the fellas to be sure.


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## OTG85 (Sep 14, 2010)

TUF-FKR said:


> That doesnt seem right. Considering the box costs $400 online... That means it costs about $500 (chemicals too) to get 20ml of liquid tren?? Man, that is steep. I would almost rather try to find a source for $100 for 10ml....
> 
> I hope those calculations are wrong...
> 
> ...


 400.00 bro I can get the whole deal 2 box's of fina 4 gram conversion kit for about 100.00 bucks.Do some more research


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## TUF-FKR (Sep 15, 2010)

legendkiller85 said:


> 400.00 bro I can get the whole deal 2 box's of fina 4 gram conversion kit for about 100.00 bucks.Do some more research




Ok, I will look more.  Didnt really want to purchase in person.  Was going to go online. I found a ton of Chinese websites but wasnt sure if thats the route I wanted to take.  Good info, again thanks for any responses.


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## unclem (Sep 16, 2010)

1 box of tren pellets will make 200ml vial at 100mg/ml. 10 carts x 2,000mg each cart or 20ml. u need 2ml sol for 20ml . and u add ba/bb and add the ba/bb to find amounts youll need. cost for 1 bx is 345.00 and kits are 21.00 for everything u need to make 2gr or 20ml vial. or 2,000mg of tren ace pellets. good luck. it contains 95% tren ace. as u lose some during the brewing process. so 20ml x 2,000mg =1/ 10cart, there are 10 cart in bx so 2,000mg per cart x 10 = 20,000mg =200ml vial. so if u do 100mg/ml eod u get 400mg wk., if its 100mg ed its 700mg wk. each pellet contains 20mg per pelletxs 10 pellets =200mg per row x10rows=2,000mg. or 2grams.


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## TUF-FKR (Sep 26, 2010)

TUF-FKR said:


> One more thing..  I see people asking about fina-kits.  From what I have been told those are illegal now.  Buying all the items IN the kit separately "technically" is NOT illegal.  So, I would attempt to purchase all the items separately from the first post in this thread.  I am in the process of trying this myself and i will share the results.




I stand corrected on this.  Finakits are perfectly legal.  I purchased 2 pro kits from their website.  You just need to find the Pellets yourself.  I just wanted to clear up any errors I posted.  Im still learning but I am studying hard!


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## TUF-FKR (Sep 29, 2010)

So, I have a question.  I used a Finakit, 4 carts, removed the oil from the top.  What do I do with the sludge at the bottom?  Is there any use for it?


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## LAM (Sep 29, 2010)

TUF-FKR said:


> So, I have a question.  I used a Finakit, 4 carts, removed the oil from the top.  What do I do with the sludge at the bottom?  Is there any use for it?



I only made it once using carts and don't remember what I did it was like 6 years ago.  I pretty much followed basskillers instructions to the t.  that sludge has to be waste, fillers, etc.


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## juggernaut (Sep 29, 2010)

All You Need To Know About Fina


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## dmcsas (Sep 30, 2010)

TUF-FKR said:


> So, I have a question.  I used a Finakit, 4 carts, removed the oil from the top.  What do I do with the sludge at the bottom?  Is there any use for it?




You have to filter the sludge with a coffee filter to get the remaining TREN out.  I usually filter what I pull off the top through the coffee filter too before I filter the sludge.  Just keeps me from cramping up during the Whatman filter!  It's not necessary just what Ido.


Spend some time on basskillers site.  It's the wikipedia of TREN!  Look at GIMP's method.


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## TUF-FKR (Oct 29, 2010)

SO, I just want to make sure.  One cartridge is 2 Grams of fina?  I just added 4 carts to 10ml of solution, I was going to add 40ml of oil.  Thats not enough solution then.  My last kit was pre measured, so I didnt have to worry.  Any suggestions to recover?  So far 4 carts, 10ml solution and only 20ml of oil.  Still separating.


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## TUF-FKR (Apr 13, 2011)

Stupid question of the week.  I bought filtered, and unfiltered oil by mistake.  DO I need to do any extra filtering for the unfiltered cotton seed oil?  It looks pretty clear..


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## yerg (Apr 13, 2011)

the oil should be filtered, but honestly i only filter it all after the gear is made. I *dont* pre-filter the oil...  And if your running out you can pick up some seseme oil or grape seed oil at walmart.  they work just as good if not better.  the grape seed is a different color tho....


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## brundel (Apr 14, 2011)

You dont need a kit.

1 crush the pellets in a pyrex measuring cup.
2. add 150ml methanol. Heet in the yllow and blue bottle will work.
Allow 30 min to dissolve.
3. pour through a coffee filter. Make sure to capture the fluid in another pyrex measuring cup or 700+ml bomex beaker. This fluid is where your tren is.
4. pour 500ml ice cold water into the fluid. You will see the tren appear.
5. pour this through a Brown cone shaped coffee filter. Dont buy cheap ones.

There is now tren powder in the filter.
6. rinse at least 3-4 times with distilled water by pouring through the filter.
7. Allow 24 hours at least to dry. I like to put it in a bowl with a lamp over it. DO NOT PUT IN OVEN>

Once dry it is ready to be weighed and prepared for injection.


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## brundel (Apr 14, 2011)

TUF-FKR said:


> Stupid question of the week.  I bought filtered, and unfiltered oil by mistake.  DO I need to do any extra filtering for the unfiltered cotton seed oil?  It looks pretty clear..



Doesnt matter pre filtered or no because your gonna run everything through a .22 filter anyways.


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## brundel (Apr 15, 2011)

Sorry...I left out an important step.......its been a while since I have done this.
Once you have the tren in the filter. Pour distilled water over it 3-4 times....RInse it well.
You want to make sure you get all the methanol off it.
I also make sure the runoff goes into something and then I pur it all through another brown cone filter just incase any tren went through with the rinse.


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## juggernaut (Apr 15, 2011)

when you say rinse well, what exactly does that imply?


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## brundel (Apr 15, 2011)

Definition of RINSE
transitive verb
1
: to cleanse by flushing with liquid (as water) —often used with out <rinse out the mouth>
2
a : to cleanse (as of soap) by clear water b : to treat (hair) with a rinse
3
: to remove (dirt or impurities) by washing lightly or in water only


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## brundel (Apr 15, 2011)

Sorry...Im kind of a smartass.


It means that this is a important step and should not be overlooked. Methanol is highly toxic.
SO, we want to pour distilled water over the crystals at least 3-4 times.

Sometimes people will think "well I have rinsed once so thats fine"
Its not.


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## juggernaut (Apr 15, 2011)

brundel said:


> Definition of RINSE
> transitive verb
> 1
> : to cleanse by flushing with liquid (as water) ???often used with out <rinse out the mouth>
> ...



So we decided to be a jerkoff. Thanks.


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## ZECH (Apr 15, 2011)

I think Bass said at one time you could not rinse it too much


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## brundel (Apr 15, 2011)

yup. You could run a gallon of water over it and it wouldnt be overkill.

Methanol toxicity:
Toxicity

Methanol has a high toxicity in humans. If ingested, for example, as little as 10 mL of 40% methanol can cause permanent blindness by destruction of the optic nerve and 30 mL (i.e. 1-2 ml of pure methanol)[11] is potentially fatal,[12] although a fatal dose is typically 100–125 mL (4 fl oz). Toxic effects take hours to start and effective antidotes can often prevent permanent damage.[12] Because of its similarities to ethanol (the alcohol in beverages), it is difficult to differentiate between the two (such is the case with denatured alcohol).

Methanol is toxic by two mechanisms. Firstly, methanol (whether it enters the body by ingestion, inhalation, or absorption through the skin) can be fatal due to its CNS depressant properties in the same manner as ethanol poisoning. Secondly, in a process of toxication, it is metabolised to formic acid (which is present as the formate ion) via formaldehyde in a process initiated by the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase in the liver.[13] Methanol is converted to formaldehyde via alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH) and formaldehyde is converted to formic acid (formate) via aldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH). The conversion to formate via ALDH proceeds completely, with no detectable formaldehyde remaining.[14] Formate is toxic because it inhibits mitochondrial cytochrome c oxidase, causing the symptoms of hypoxia at the cellular level, and also causing metabolic acidosis among a variety of other metabolic disturbances.[15] Fetal tissue will not tolerate methanol.

Methanol poisoning can be treated with the antidotes ethanol or fomepizole.[13][16][17] Both of these drugs act to reduce the action of alcohol dehydrogenase on methanol by means of competitive inhibition, so that it is excreted by the kidneys rather than being transformed into toxic metabolites.[13] Further treatment may include giving sodium bicarbonate for metabolic acidosis and haemodialysis or haemodiafiltration can be used to remove methanol and formate from the blood.[13] Folinic acid or folic acid is also administered to enhance the metabolism of formate.[13]

The initial symptoms of methanol intoxication include central nervous system depression, headache, dizziness, nausea, lack of coordination, confusion, and with sufficiently large doses, unconsciousness and death. The initial symptoms of methanol exposure are usually less severe than the symptoms resulting from the ingestion of a similar quantity of ethanol.[4] Once the initial symptoms have passed, a second set of symptoms arises, 10 to as many as 30 hours after the initial exposure to methanol, including blurring or complete loss of vision and acidosis.[13] These symptoms result from the accumulation of toxic levels of formate in the bloodstream, and may progress to death by respiratory failure. Small amounts of methanol are produced by the metabolism of food and are generally harmless, being metabolized quickly and completely.


----------



## brundel (Apr 15, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> So we decided to be a jerkoff. Thanks.



Im just joking, no need to take it seriously.


----------



## juggernaut (Apr 15, 2011)

brundel said:


> Im just joking, no need to take it seriously.



Show a little respect to members, especially since this is a topic worthy of questions.


----------



## TUF-FKR (Apr 15, 2011)

brundel said:


> Doesnt matter pre filtered or no because your gonna run everything through a .22 filter anyways.



Thanks Brundel! Just what I needed.  

BTW, I dont mind if people are a smartass on here.  I like to joke myself.  The good part about Brundel is he also supplied a serious answer and said he was just joking


----------



## TUF-FKR (Apr 15, 2011)

Can someone verify what Basskiller posted on his site.

for 20ML of 200mg Tren

4 grams Tren (2 carts)
1ml BA
3ml BB
13ml oil

doesnt seem like enough alcohol for 2 carts (4 Grams)


----------



## brundel (Apr 15, 2011)

For that recipe the BA% is unusually high= 5%.
Most likely this is because the mg/ml is exceptionally high for a short ester.

Personally I would make it 100mg/ml and use 2% BA

Here is how I would make it.

40ml @ 100mg/ml

4g tren
28.20 oil of your choice. I like Grapeseed oil.
.8ml BA =2%
8ml BB =20%


----------



## brundel (Apr 15, 2011)

Perhaps I should elaborate on my choice of oil.

Ill begin by stating that the most commonly used oil (cottonseed) is a poor choice for a few reasons. Most importantly because cottonseed oil is a byproduct of the cotton industry. Cotton is one of the if not the most heavily sprayed by pesticides. The process used for extraction takes no consideration regarding the level of toxins in the final product.  Basically, without making this a 5 year long post...There is a very high chance that your cottonseed oil is contaminated with pesticides.
Yes.....pharmacies use it.
HG gear is often made with it.
WHy? Because its cheap as hell.

Grapeseed oil on the other hand has a ton of benefits including but not limited to a lack of toxins.
Ill write up some more about GSO when I get home.


----------



## TUF-FKR (Apr 15, 2011)

I have done done 100mg in the past and just didnt get the results that 200mg delivers.  I can barely feel the results of the 100mg (I dont stack).  The 200mg works magic.

However, I did a aroma "kit" the first time.  The BA and BB were premixed for the order.  I just added the 2 carts and oil, heat, filter.  Wasnt impressed.

Ive actually started a Sustanon cycle and plan on wrapping it up with 6 weeks of 200mg tren.


----------



## brundel (Apr 16, 2011)

The problem with the  "kits" is that you never get 100mg/ml.
Some of them use BA/BB
Some use guaiacol.....
None produce 100mg/ml although they say they do.
They all produce less than that and unfortunately you really dont know how much less.

The only way to ensure the dose is correct is to either purchase the raw powders or to make them from implants. Either way you can weight the powder to ensure proper dosage.

Im editing my previous conversion post to clarify everything as well so the directions should be super easy to follow.

How often are you injecting?

100mg eod is alot of tren for most people.


----------



## TUF-FKR (Apr 16, 2011)

EOD for 4 weeks with 200mg.  Amazing results.  SIde affects are night sweats, wake up with shirt soaking wet about 3 times a week.  Balls shrink pretty bad on this stuff but I counter with HCG 500iu once a week.

I will try making a batch of 100 mg again following your recipe.

I only want to try 10ml worth though, in case Im not happy with it.  I currently am building.

1ml BA
3ml BB
and 2 carts

The pellets are breaking down since last night.  Ca I still alter this batch to get 100ml?

Im open to changing it.  i havent added oil yet.


----------



## TUF-FKR (Apr 16, 2011)

BTW, Brundel, I really appreciate all your input.  I still have alot to learn even though I have made 150ml so far of different strengths.

I am ALL FOR not using so much Pellets since it costs so much.


----------



## brundel (Apr 16, 2011)

I have never not once made it this way.
Remember alot of tren is gonna be left behind.....its gonna be like 50-60mg/ml...if that.

Next time try the method I outlined on page 2 of this thread.
You will know for 100% the mg/ml....

The reason you need 200mg/ml is its really only 100mg.
If you made it less then it would be the 50-60mg.

I dont even know what to tell you to alter.


----------



## brundel (Apr 16, 2011)

You dont need a kit.

1 crush the pellets in a pyrex measuring cup.
2. add 150ml methanol. Heet in the yllow and blue bottle will work.
Allow 30 min to dissolve.
3. pour through a coffee filter. Make sure to capture the fluid in another pyrex measuring cup or 700+ml bomex beaker. This fluid is where your tren is.
4. pour 500ml ice cold water into the fluid. You will see the tren appear.
5. pour this through a Brown cone shaped coffee filter. Dont buy cheap ones.

There is now tren powder in the filter.
6. rinse at least 3-4 times with distilled water by pouring through the filter.
7. Allow 24 hours at least to dry. I like to put it in a bowl with a lamp over it. DO NOT PUT IN OVEN>

Once dry it is ready to be weighed and prepared for injection.


----------



## brundel (Apr 16, 2011)

TUF-FKR said:


> BTW, Brundel, I really appreciate all your input.  I still have alot to learn even though I have made 150ml so far of different strengths.
> 
> I am ALL FOR not using so much Pellets since it costs so much.



Thanks brother.
My goal here is to try to help people wherever I can.
Any questions I can answer I will.


----------



## TUF-FKR (Apr 16, 2011)

brundel said:


> You dont need a kit.
> 
> 1 crush the pellets in a pyrex measuring cup.
> 2. add 150ml methanol. Heet in the yllow and blue bottle will work.
> ...




Ok, I will try this next.  I will have a couple questions when I do it.  So, Heet in a blue and yellow bottle.  Pep boys?

How many carts do I need for this kit?


----------



## brundel (Apr 16, 2011)

Ill walk you through the whole thing.
You can do as few or as many carts as you want.
Youll also need in addition to heet.
Sterile vial...I would buy a couple...20ml ones. or 50ml ones. Just to be safe.
10ml syringe
18g and 25g needle
2x millipore sterile syringe filters. .22um pore size.
BA
BB
Oil

All can be purchased at researchsupply.net
If you convert alot of tren also buy a couple bomex beakers. 750ml is good.
Otherwise you can use pyrex measuring cups you can purchase at the local grocery store.


----------



## miami_bull (Apr 21, 2011)

Thanks for all the great info in this thread. Actually, I read through every post and this is what got me to reister as a member here. Im buying pellets and vials, beakers, etc right now. Excited to try this out. Ill let you all know how it goes.


----------



## juggernaut (Apr 22, 2011)

miami_bull said:


> Thanks for all the great info in this thread. Actually, I read through every post and this is what got me to reister as a member here. Im buying pellets and vials, beakers, etc right now. Excited to try this out. Ill let you all know how it goes.



I'd appreciate a play by play. I'm thinking of doing this for my cat. Take photos.


----------



## brundel (Apr 25, 2011)

miami_bull said:


> Thanks for all the great info in this thread. Actually, I read through every post and this is what got me to reister as a member here. Im buying pellets and vials, beakers, etc right now. Excited to try this out. Ill let you all know how it goes.



Awesome!
WHen you get all the stuff together..PM me and we can do a walk through with pics for people here if your into it.
This way people can see all the supplies and the steps.

THe best thing about tren is you dont need to get shit from China...
You dont need to send your money to friggin Turkey and hope for the best.
You dont have to wonder....."is this shit gonna work or do I have mexican piss in my vial"
You know it was properly filtered.
You can feel 100% safe when injecting it.


----------



## Kagigi (Apr 26, 2011)

Very generous offer to document right there...looking forward to it!!


----------



## miami_bull (Apr 27, 2011)

brundel said:


> Awesome!
> WHen you get all the stuff together..PM me and we can do a walk through with pics for people here if your into it.
> This way people can see all the supplies and the steps.
> 
> ...


 
brundel, Thanks again for all the info. I tried sending you a PM but I dont have enough posts yet... The pellets have been delivered. Just waiting on a few other things from researchsupply... Ill let you know when Im ready to put on the lab coat and goggles and get this show on the road.


----------



## BIGDADDYBEEFCAKE (May 3, 2011)

Make sure you guys keep this updated.  I have an order in right now for Finaplix-H pellets.  Just waiting for them to be delivered.  The way brundel is discribing sounds alot easier than what some of these kits are doing.  Thanks


----------



## weightslayer (May 3, 2011)

i have used both methods, and the crystal method is the best! I know i've said it a lot, but Brundel is the fucking man and knows his shit. it takes  longer, and there's more work and pulling hair out(which i dont have any left) but the crystal method is def the way to go. oh how i love the pile of tren crystals!!!!


----------



## TUF-FKR (May 4, 2011)

Brundel, I want to verify with you.  Please respond asap.

STEP 1:
I added 4 carts of FIN
120ML Heat
let sit for 30 minutes

STEP 2:
poured through filter
you said TRN would be in the liquid now?
The white paste that is in the coffee filter is just filler and to throw away?

STEP 3:
I only have about 100ml left now, not sure where the other 20ml of heat went.
pour distilled water into the liquid TRN, I should be able to see the TRN forming.

STEP 4:
Now, I am going to run the liquid TRN through another coffee filter, then rinse 3-4 times with distilled water.

STEP 5:
Let the filter dry over night.  That is now the TRN powder correct?

I am currently on step 3.  Would like some confirmation.


----------



## TUF-FKR (May 4, 2011)

So, the stuff in the filter is just FILLER and is waste?  And the liquid in the beaker is Heat and TRN?


----------



## weightslayer (May 5, 2011)

TUF-FKR said:


> So, the stuff in the filter is just FILLER and is waste?  And the liquid in the beaker is Heat and TRN?


yes, if thats your first filtering, then all that shit is the binders and glue and shit(bad shit) through it away, including the filter. next....take some very cold water(distilled) and add it to the heat and tren mix in the beaker. you will see crystal forming. take my word for it, you're in for a treat it is fucking cool. then filter through a clean filter. sit to dry over night...then filter the mix again in another filter, while the first is drying. you will just keep filtering it in different filters until there are no crystals left in the heat and tren mixture. you'll end up with a lot of filters drying.


----------



## weightslayer (May 5, 2011)

TUF-FKR said:


> Brundel, I want to verify with you.  Please respond asap.
> 
> STEP 1:
> I added 4 carts of FIN
> ...


 if you're on step 3...did you pour the cold distilled water in yet?


----------



## da11 (May 6, 2011)

Ok so we have the powder....are the steps below the correct way to convert the powder into liquid tren?


- Preheat the    oven to 175 F.

   - Add BA and BB

   - Add Oil.    Pop it in the oven and let it melt.

   - Fill it the    rest of the way to 18 ml. Mix it up (shake gently). 

- Filter into    new sterile vial

- Pop the vial    into the oven. Increase the heat to 250. Bake for 45 min


----------



## da11 (May 6, 2011)

How many times can a syringe filter be used?  Could I do 6 carts worth?  or 120cc's?

Or do you need to use a new one for each batch?


----------



## brundel (May 6, 2011)

da11 said:


> Ok so we have the powder....are the steps below the correct way to convert the powder into liquid tren?
> 
> 
> - Preheat the    oven to 175 F.
> ...



NO.
Do not .....ever....use the oven. Its too difficult to manage the temp.

Weigh your powder.

Use this to determine %'s  Untitled

Put a pan with a couple inches of water in it on the stove.

place a bomex beaker or pyrex measuring cup (using pyrex will make this step take longer) Add BA and BB to the beaker.

Turn heat to med low.

after about a min slowly stir in powder.

DO NOT BOIL TREN SOLUTION> if the water boils a bit its fine.

Once the tren is dissolved into the solution slowly add in the oil.

Once warm draw into a 10-20ml syringe

Attach a sterile filter.

Vent sterile vial

Filter.


----------



## brundel (May 6, 2011)

da11 said:


> How many times can a syringe filter be used?  Could I do 6 carts worth?  or 120cc's?
> 
> Or do you need to use a new one for each batch?



With tren made from implants your gonna have alot of clogging.
I usually keep 2 per cart on hand just incase.
Sometimes you can get 20+ml through one....
Sometimes they clog at 8ml
Sometimes if you force them too much they blow out.
Buy extra.

Dont forget to flush the filters.


----------



## da11 (May 6, 2011)

you make it easy to understand.  Don't even need pictures....lol.

Thanks for the info!



brundel said:


> With tren made from implants your gonna have alot of clogging.
> I usually keep 2 per cart on hand just incase.
> Sometimes you can get 20+ml through one....
> Sometimes they clog at 8ml
> ...


----------



## brundel (May 6, 2011)

TUF-FKR said:


> So, the stuff in the filter is just FILLER and is waste?  And the liquid in the beaker is Heat and TRN?



Looks good.
Add cold distilled water.


----------



## rayb (May 6, 2011)

Interesting


----------



## TUF-FKR (May 6, 2011)

Ok Guys, Thanks in advance again.  Brundel is the man. I need a guy like you in all my Forums for all my hobbies!  

SO, I forgot to make the Distilled water cold before I poured it in and I didnt do it slow either.  The crystals still appeared but they are flat small flakes.  

The coffee filters clog up fast, I wish there was an easier way.  This is a PITA.  I have coffee filters everywhere out to dry.  I bought nice cone ones from Trader Joes.

There are #2 and #4 coffee filters, I bought #2.  Not sure if that is the filter strength or size.

SO I have been spending alot of time on Researchsupply DOT net and it seems there are many items in the filter section that would really assist with this part of it.  Any advice?  I am thinking of going for the vacuum pump.  I have a compressor.  There are so many to choose from.  Any help would be appreciated.

Again, Brundal the Mixing Percentage conversion chart web link is priceless.  I am a little concerned though, I used 10ML oil at 100mg and it says 0 for BB and .5ML for BA.

Why 0 for BB?   I am ready to make my first one, but want to make sure I add the right stuff.


----------



## TUF-FKR (May 6, 2011)

FYI, I cannot PM people until I git 50 posts. Thanks for the PM Slayer.


----------



## da11 (May 6, 2011)

brundel said:


> With tren made from implants your gonna have alot of clogging.
> I usually keep 2 per cart on hand just incase.
> Sometimes you can get 20+ml through one....
> Sometimes they clog at 8ml
> ...




Will the Whatman .45um syringe filters work?  I've read they are troublesome but I am hoping your process will eliminate the clogging....the heating and venting will help as well and maybe people just aren't smart enough to do that...what do you think?

Also, as far as flushing the filters you just don't add all of the oil at first right?  Only flush once with maybe the last 2cc's of oil that make up the final tren?

Thanks!


----------



## brundel (May 6, 2011)

TUF-FKR said:


> Ok Guys, Thanks in advance again.  Brundel is the man. I need a guy like you in all my Forums for all my hobbies!
> 
> SO, I forgot to make the Distilled water cold before I poured it in and I didnt do it slow either.  The crystals still appeared but they are flat small flakes.
> 
> ...



Next time around try to be as patient as possible. The more filters you use the more will be lost in the filter itself therefore lowering your yield (dramatically if you used 5 filters or something for a cart or 2)

Flat small flakes are fine.

I would not think about getting a vac pump. These are intended for use with larger sterile cup filters and you dont need those for a tren conversion.
They work better for when your making 500ml+

In the calculator the top half is for you to enter your own numbers and it calculates everything at the bottom.

It says .05 which is 5%BA change this to .02
change BA to the % you want. Say 18% this is .18
FOr oil punch in however many ML's you want total Example: 100 for 100ml.
FOr dosage put 100mg for tren.
FOr the powder weight >>leave it alone unless you know the proper number>>

The bottom boxes are the amounts you use for your conversion.


----------



## brundel (May 6, 2011)

da11 said:


> Will the Whatman .45um syringe filters work?  I've read they are troublesome but I am hoping your process will eliminate the clogging....the heating and venting will help as well and maybe people just aren't smart enough to do that...what do you think?
> 
> Also, as far as flushing the filters you just don't add all of the oil at first right?  Only flush once with maybe the last 2cc's of oil that make up the final tren?
> 
> Thanks!




I would always use a .22
Its gonna take longer than a .45 but.....there are some nasty things that can go through a .45 that cannot go through a .22.  Google staph infection pictures. If that doesnt convince you to use .22 nothing will. It will take longer. 
There will be ALOT less clogging with this method because your not filtering out the glues and binders.
As for flushing, yes flush once with 2ml-3ml left behind.


----------



## TUF-FKR (May 7, 2011)

brundel said:


> In the calculator the top half is for you to enter your own numbers and it calculates everything at the bottom.
> 
> It says .05 which is 5%BA change this to .02
> change BA to the % you want. Say 18% this is .18
> ...



Hey Brundel,

My question is: What should the BB percentage be at?

I am using 10ml oil, 100mg dosage.  The BA defaults to .05, the BB defaults to 0. 

I dont know what the BB precentage should be.  0? Your post above used BA for both.  I think it was a mis-spelling?  One of them should have been BB?

Anyways, I will slow it down next time.  I have another 4 carts to do.  Each time I learn a little more.  Anxious to make the first 10ml and test it out.


----------



## da11 (May 7, 2011)

brundel said:


> I would always use a .22
> Its gonna take longer than a .45 but.....there are some nasty things that can go through a .45 that cannot go through a .22.  Google staph infection pictures. If that doesnt convince you to use .22 nothing will. It will take longer.
> There will be ALOT less clogging with this method because your not filtering out the glues and binders.
> As for flushing, yes flush once with 2ml-3ml left behind.




Thanks Brundel!  your info has helped me a ton


----------



## ROID (May 8, 2011)

da11 said:


> Ok so we have the powder....are the steps below the correct way to convert the powder into liquid tren?
> 
> 
> - Preheat the    oven to 175 F.
> ...




Oh dear NO  !!!!


----------



## ROID (May 8, 2011)

brundel said:


> NO.
> Do not .....ever....use the oven. Its too difficult to manage the temp.
> 
> Weigh your powder.
> ...




ha, I thought it was done too late.


----------



## da11 (May 8, 2011)

I read that the crystal tren has a shorter half life than tren ace......i was under the impression that usin the fina pellets that contain tren acetate and converting them to the crystals was the same as any other tren ace.

So, did i read something bogus or do i need to shoot crystal tren every day.  I usually do tren ace eod.


----------



## brundel (May 9, 2011)

TUF-FKR said:


> Hey Brundel,
> 
> My question is: What should the BB percentage be at?
> 
> ...



Yes sorry it was a typo.
BB-18%   =.18 in the box.
BA-2%    = .02


----------



## brundel (May 9, 2011)

da11 said:


> I read that the crystal tren has a shorter half life than tren ace......i was under the impression that usin the fina pellets that contain tren acetate and converting them to the crystals was the same as any other tren ace.
> 
> So, did i read something bogus or do i need to shoot crystal tren every day.  I usually do tren ace eod.



This makes no sense at all.
Fina or component TH contains trenbolone acetate.
This is what the crystals are. Trenbolone acetate.
Whoever told you that........dont ever listen to ANYTHING they tell you ever.


----------



## da11 (May 9, 2011)

brundel said:


> This makes no sense at all.
> Fina or component TH contains trenbolone acetate.
> This is what the crystals are. Trenbolone acetate.
> Whoever told you that........dont ever listen to ANYTHING they tell you ever.



LOL.  I won't be listening to them anymore.  It sounded convincing though.  They said the methanol strips the ester out of the fina???  So I googled it and sure enough I found a site that says there is a "1 hour rule"  - if you leave the fina in the meth for too long it will strip the ester.

Anyways just to clarify.  The active life for for crystal tren is still 2-3 days right?


----------



## brundel (May 9, 2011)

Methanol wont likely strip the ester off....even after 10 hours.
Its NaoH (sodium hydroxide) that will strip the ester in 1 hour.


----------



## brundel (May 9, 2011)

I would shoot tren ace no less than every other day.


----------



## da11 (May 9, 2011)

brundel said:


> I would shoot tren ace no less than every other day.



Yeah, i completely agree.  I have run 3 cycles with tren ace in them at 50mg eod.  I had great results but I tasted metal in my mouth after each injection.  

Trying to decide if i should do 100mg eod or 50ed.  Im stacking with test prop.


----------



## da11 (May 20, 2011)

Ok, I'm rinsing the white stuff that is supposed to be powder as I type this.....not sure if I screwed up or not.

I'll try and explain what my steps were really quick.

I used a little more heet during the dissolving and the 1st filter stage to rinse my jar that I dissolved the pellets in as well as rinsed the filter to wash the sides of it.  

After the heet and dissolved pellets went through the coffee filter the liquid was still a little white so I filtered again just to be safe.  Didn't get that much cellulose on the filter that time....could it have dissolve more and passed through filter??

Then I added over 500ml of ice cold water all at once to the heet/tren liquid.  It turned milky white immediately.  

Then I started to filter to extract the powder.....this process took for ever.  I ended up having to use 3 different filters.  I rinsed and re rinsed several times.  After I filtered I would pour that liquid through another filter until it was clear.  

I feel like I ended up with a lot of white gunk.....fine shimmery gunk....no crystals.  And it looks like it is a lot more than the cellulose was.  It's still wet so maybe after it drys up it will be better.

Any ideas?

Thanks


----------



## SuperLift (May 20, 2011)

This thread is 6 years old! lol just make it a sticky


----------



## da11 (May 20, 2011)

SuperLift said:


> This thread is 6 years old! lol just make it a sticky



1/2 the posts in this thread are less than 2 months old and the majority of the posts in this thread are less than 1 year old.......i dont see your point dude!


----------



## da11 (May 20, 2011)

da11 said:


> Ok, I'm rinsing the white stuff that is supposed to be powder as I type this.....not sure if I screwed up or not.
> 
> I'll try and explain what my steps were really quick.
> 
> ...




BUMP!  Brundel, where r u bro?


----------



## da11 (May 21, 2011)

Well the powder was less than i thought weight wise......looked like more volume than cellulose.  I got 1.35 grams.  1st time.  Might be better off just buying it.  Hopefully next time is better.....debating if i should do wet method next.....any advice?


----------



## Quez82 (May 24, 2011)

Dang, it's been too long.  i didn't think people still crushed pellets.  I guess noone uses the microwave anymore to heat up their products and put them into solution? lol


----------



## TUF-FKR (May 27, 2011)

Ok, I need some advice.  This second round didnt go so well.  Here is what I did:

4 carts crushed
150ml Heat
I let it sit for 2 days in heat (didnt have a choice)
filtered the heat
had 100ml of yellowish clear tren/heat
added 500ml of ice cold distilled water

Here is my problem, it turned to milk.  No crystals formed.  Last time I did this I had crystals immediately and it separated from the water.  

I tried filtering it anyways but the milky water just goes right through the filter.  Im not sure what I screwed up.

Is this wasted?  I guess im going to let the mily water sit and see if it separates. 

Any advice would be nice.


----------



## brundel (May 28, 2011)

Perhaps the length of time in methanol caused this result.
Im not 100% certain.
Sounds like the binders were dissolved to the point where they do not catch in the filter.


----------



## brundel (May 28, 2011)

da11 said:


> Well the powder was less than i thought weight wise......looked like more volume than cellulose.  I got 1.35 grams.  1st time.  Might be better off just buying it.  Hopefully next time is better.....debating if i should do wet method next.....any advice?



Sorry its been so long I get caught up elsewhere.
Considering you used several filters 1.35 isnt bad.
Next time be patient.
Filter binders once.
use only one filter for tren.
The reason is that some tren gets caught in the filter no matter what you do so for every one you use you lose some tren.


----------



## TUF-FKR (May 30, 2011)

Well, I waited a little longer and the crystals appeared.  I just needed to be patient.  All filtered and waiting to dry.


----------



## TUF-FKR (May 30, 2011)

One last thing, I usually use 4 carts for the conversion.  But I end up losing 1gm to 1.5gm in the conversion process.  Any reason why?


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## da11 (Jun 24, 2011)

My second conversion with only one filter went way better.  Got 3.6 grams with 4 carts.  I let the powder dry for about 3 days so hopefully there wasnt water weight in the powder.

One thing though that im freaked out about.  After 3 weeks of 50mg eod i started getting lumps in the nips.....started using dostinex, b6, and aromasin.  I stopped week 4 because i was getting more tissue build up.

I also was doing 50mg eod test prop.  I've done way heavier cycles of both these compounds and have never had gyno flare ever.....first time usimg homebrew though has me a little worried.

Any ideas as to how this could happen on such a low dose?


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## brundel (Jun 24, 2011)

Yah.for once your tren is dosed properly...or perhaps the tren you had used before was bunk. Or....perhaps you have developed sensitivity over time. How is sexual function? Iknow its. A sensitive question but if your having a tough time gettin it up then we know it from the tren.


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## da11 (Jun 24, 2011)

brundel said:


> Yah.for once your tren is dosed properly...or perhaps the tren you had used before was bunk. Or....perhaps you have developed sensitivity over time. How is sexual function? Iknow its. A sensitive question but if your having a tough time gettin it up then we know it from the tren.



Thanks for the quick response Brundel. 

Sexual function has been totally normal.  Married for 15 years so my wife knows when im struggling due to hormones.  No probs at all this cycle.  

I started nolva for pct so im sure its gonna turn off here pretty quick though.

I can say that this has been my best cycle so far.  Ive never felt or looked like this from any other cycle.  

Im so bummed i had to shut it down so early but i dont want to take any chances.  

Another weird thing is i have a huge bruise above my nipple.  Must be sensitive tissue.  The tissue has gone down a bit since pct......wtf??.


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## brundel (Jun 24, 2011)

Did you convert the test prop from synovex?


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## da11 (Jun 24, 2011)

brundel said:


> Did you convert the test prop from synovex?



No,  its ugl that ive used in 3 other cycles.  Good source.


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## brundel (Jun 27, 2011)

da11 said:


> No,  its ugl that ive used in 3 other cycles.  Good source.



For your next cycle, begin using ancillaries before you start using your test and tren. SO, start the AI a couple weeks early this way your enzymes are already bound up prior to test administration.


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## hurtqueleez (Sep 7, 2011)

Is it possible to make a tren/test prop hybrid with conversion chart supplied in post #94?


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## brundel (Sep 8, 2011)

Maye prop/tren at 50/50mg or 100mg total.
2% BA
20% BB


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## hurtqueleez (Sep 9, 2011)

Why not tren/prop at 100/100 or 200mg/ml total?  I have see many ug lab hybrids that are well over 200mg/ml.  The "ultimate" fina kit's oil is stable up to 300mg/ml.  It is also reported to be less painful and more IM soluble.  Do u know what type of oil this is?


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## brundel (Sep 9, 2011)

Every Mg above 100mg prop begins to be more difficult to keep in solution.
In addition prop is known to be relatively painful and as the concentration increases so does localized irritation at the injection site. The "kits" take advantage of the fact that after you combine everything in one container and filter you will NOT have 100mg.
You will have alot less....unfortunately nobody really knows and we can only speculate at the actual mg/ml but we do know that it is far less than 100% could be as low as 50% or 50mg/ml.
So.....it may say your making 300mg/ml but its more like 150-175mg. The shit will be painful.

The solvent they use is called guaiacol and has antiseptic and analgesic properties which help to reduce pain initially but itll still hurt after a day or so.


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## brundel (Sep 9, 2011)

This is why its better to recrystallize and make it without a kit.
You know the exact mg/ml.


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## da11 (Sep 20, 2011)

Just converted another 2 carts.  For some reason after I filtered the crystals I was left with more of a milky colored liquid in the jar and not as many crystals in the filter.  

Any ideas on how to extract more crystals?

 I added about 250ml of cold water and some crystals appeared but now I have close to 1000ml of water.

Should I wait and let water evaporate or what?


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## brundel (Sep 20, 2011)

You probably used too much methanol.
if you use say 300ml methanol youll need alot more water to get the crystals to form.
The crystals form when there is a certain ratio of water to methanol.

Add more water and run through the filter again.


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## da11 (Sep 20, 2011)

brundel said:


> You probably used too much methanol.
> if you use say 300ml methanol youll need alot more water to get the crystals to form.
> The crystals form when there is a certain ratio of water to methanol.
> 
> Add more water and run through the filter again.



Will try that thanks


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## ooa4oo (Sep 21, 2011)

i love this thread.


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## mnpower (Sep 26, 2011)

im glad someone else brought back this old thread  I have been reading over basskiller site and all seems easy..im gunna order my raw power for test prop tomorrow but im gunna make tren from fina i think....might have to do the math vs powder but either way....

what is this magic soltion?? i am asuming its ba and bb but in what ammount... I am wanting to make 40ml at roughly 100mg pr ml so i figure ill need 4 carts and after that im kinda lost


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## brundel (Sep 26, 2011)

The magic solution is guiaicol.
Just use the recrystallization method. The results are far better.


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## jdizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

*finaplix*

So if the kit has 10 pellets, 200mg, and the average vial yields 100mg/ml, or 10 ml vials, would you only crush up 5 pellets, or due to conversion loss the whole thing?


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## damonstertraps (Oct 20, 2011)

as much as I would love to do this, it seems like a pain in the ass.


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## brundel (Oct 20, 2011)

Its pretty easy. As easy as making a cup of coffee.


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## atlas114 (Feb 13, 2012)

I just learned something. Im making my own USDAlol tren from here out
Brundel nice work with this thread.


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## atlas114 (Feb 13, 2012)

Can i use grain alcohol 190proof instead of methanol/heat??


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## hulklion (Feb 15, 2012)

great thread.


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## basskiller (Feb 27, 2012)

brundel said:


> The magic solution is guiaicol.
> Just use the recrystallization method. The results are far better.



the magic solution for the fina kits  has never been guiaicol. guiaicol was only first  introduced when we first started to experiment with winny in oil back in 02 (I believe that was the year.. old age..LOL).. 

 animal's kit has a some sort of surfactant in it I believe (but not totally sure) 
But most of them consisted of only BA +BB  Researchkits which was was of the first mainstream kit companies only used BA alone.. Thats why his 2 gram kits hurt like hell , but the 4 gram kit was ok.. He used the same amount of BA in both kits.. I was very good friends with Chemripped (the owner) back then


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## brundel (Feb 28, 2012)

I heard all kinds of rumors regarding what was in it. I did hear BA/BB alot.
I figured Gui just because it is a relatively burly solvent but this was a guesstimate.

Ill take your word for it.


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## basskiller (Feb 28, 2012)

brundel said:


> I figured Gui just because it is a relatively burly solvent .
> .



Oh it is.. Where all others failed in the early experiments of what were once thought of as oral only products.. People were now see many more liquid versions because of guiaicol.. 
 I do think there was a certain time a few years ago when people were using it too heavily in their mixtures.. 500 and 600mgs multi steroidal products 
now were seeing other surfactants being used..


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## brundel (Feb 28, 2012)

I can only imagine the pain from a 600mg injection ......
Like getting kicked by a clydesdale.

Its funny so many people want to push the envelope with high mg/ml gear.
Or make injectable orals. Just eat em they work great.

GUi almost never needs to be used when manufacturing gear for the majority of users.
Plus....I swear I can smell it on my for days after inject.....Its like I now have a pine fresh smell to myself.


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## theboneman (Mar 2, 2012)

BoneCrusher said:


> I am interested in knowing the neg's on this.  I have hep-c anti-bodies in my system ( a blood transfusion in '79) and need to be catious.  I ave never had the sysmptoms and get my enzymes checked every six to ten months and all is cool there.  I sooooooo wanna use what ever I can over the next year ... I just don't wanna turn my liver into pudding in the process.  Thanks for your advice here.



you my friend are gonna have to be real careful, and im not kidding you, i almost died last summer, it was a nightmare on my street.i had hep c and treated it with antifuron and ribaviron, what i didnt know even after being non detectable the hep does damage while you carry it, it wont stay dorment forever.

once the virus multiplies it will get worse, but you need to be so careful, my cycle put me into complete liver failure and the docs dont belive i pulled thru, i was going into a coma then a miracle happened. remember orals are very dangerous to you now, you need a quick safe cycle with liver support, b4 during and after. just be careful and know your liver is not gonna take much stress. do some research youll see what i mean, good luck to you my friend, may god keep you in his hands.


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## unclem (Aug 29, 2012)

no more finaplix-h implants at 40 bucks. so fuck that ill buy ready made.


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