# CSH: Ladies.......I'm opening a can of WORMS



## Dr. Pain (Feb 19, 2003)

We are mainly gonna address the Ladies in this thread, (even thought some of the issues apply to the men) 

And WE are ALL gonna contribute to the research 

We all know how cheats and inconsistency can RUIN a cut, but there are several "little" issues to revisit.  Some of the answers are in the archives here......some need better explanations.

WHY DO CUTS FAIL/STALL?

Let the posting begin

Major:

1) HRT
2) Birth Control (form of HRT)
3) Meds...Thyroid, SSRI's, etc
4) Estrogen Dominance
5) ???

Less MAJOR, but more than Minor:

A) Caffeine
B) SWEETNERS
C) GUM
D) Dairy
E) ???

Related....

I)  ADRENAL BURNOUT
II) Wilson's Syndrome
III) Other Thyroid problems
IV)  Reverse T3
V)  ????

GO!  

So we can ALL have a better understanding!


DP


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 20, 2003)

A little help here....unless you all like being "stuck"...just don't be posting "I don't know why I'm stuck?" 

*Reverse T3 and Wilson's*


http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=11279&highlight=reverse

DP


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## tigress (Feb 20, 2003)

I read that thread 3 or 4 times yesterday. I feel like I am having a mini breakdown over this whole thing. It's like, wtf is the point of it all if nothing is happening? I thought my skinfolds showed improvements til i entered them into the spreadsheet and my percentage barely moved.


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 20, 2003)

Nat, relax...the point is that you have the rest of your life to fix things......nothing has been lost, it's all about learning your body 

We had to go this route w/Danielle, and it proved successful....with 2 or 3 or you guys being "stuck", we are merely exploring thess issues...it doesn't mean they apply...DO NOT FREAK! 

DP


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## w8lifter (Feb 20, 2003)

Gum AND Caffeine


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## w8lifter (Feb 20, 2003)

Fructose (sweetners)

Sugar


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## Britney (Feb 20, 2003)

Shit I had seen that thread before

I am shamefully chewing.....But I have weeks before my comp, so we can use it as a tweak later right? Please?


Is this why my tummy is a fuqqing barrel w/o carbs?


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## w8lifter (Feb 20, 2003)

No comment. *snaps gum*


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Britney *_
> Shit I had seen that thread before
> 
> I am shamefully chewing.....But I have weeks before my comp, so we can use it as a tweak later right? Please?
> ...



Would that be an :empty barrel?" 

Brickass......Tweak This:  Go look in the mirror, turn circles really fast so you can see your *ASS*........then spit out your gum, that tweak is NOW!  


DP


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> No comment. *snaps gum*



You TOO! 

DP


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 20, 2003)

Somebody go find BF and Estrogen Dominance...k? 

DP


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## Britney (Feb 20, 2003)

I like my ass?



OKAY YOU WIN  *spits gum at D......garbage*


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 20, 2003)

Start an Asslovers thread then. ......Thanks...coffee is next....lol 

DP


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## tigress (Feb 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> Nat, relax...the point is that you have the rest of your life to fix things......nothing has been lost, it's all about learning your body
> 
> We had to go this route w/Danielle, and it proved successful....with 2 or 3 or you guys being "stuck", we are merely exploring thess issues...it doesn't mean they apply...DO NOT FREAK!
> ...



I am not an emotional person by nature, and I AM freaking! I did know my body, and i know that I would have had a huge difference by now if it was a few years ago. WTF did I do to it? What should I do now? Do you think the cytomel will help?


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## tigress (Feb 20, 2003)

Sorry, I saw your post on my journal after I made the above post. Thanks for trying to calm me down.


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## Britney (Feb 20, 2003)

DP, just to clarify, coffee is NEXT not NOW right? 

Tigress, 
Listen to W8 and DP. Trust me its normal to freak. *been there done that* Right now you are not going to be able to look at yourself from a normal perspective or see all your changes. But BELIEVE me if you are being true to your plan the changes ARE there. It just seems while we are IN the situation, we can only see what is in our heads. Do not give up now! It will be worth it in the long run. Today I can look at past progress pics I thought I looked fat. Ect in and clearly see every chg week to week. Though at that time, I couldn???t. Your head can mess with you big time. That is why its important to have a supporter during this time-like W8 or DP can be ??? to help keep you in line!


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## w8lifter (Feb 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Britney *_
> Today I can look at past progress pics I thought I looked fat. Ect in and clearly see every chg week to week. Though at that time, I couldn???t.



Me too....I look back at my pics just before my last contest...where I was gonna pull out due to the size of my ass and I'm thinking "What fucking ass????" Yet I was freaking about it. What an ASS I was


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## tigress (Feb 20, 2003)

Thanks Britney. Hopefully there are some internal changes going on. There doesn't seem to be any changes in measurements.


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by tigress *_
> I am not an emotional person by nature, and I AM freaking! I did know my body, and i know that I would have had a huge difference by now if it was a few years ago. WTF did I do to it? What should I do now? Do you think the cytomel will help?



Nice Gritney...err Britney  

Nat.......again, relax.......somewhere we have a thread that suggests "hormonal shifts" ...some starting as early as 10-15 years before menopause are the culprit...the body is very complex 

We are just exploring here, KNOWLEDGE is POWER! 

DP


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> Somebody go find BF and Estrogen Dominance...k?
> 
> DP



Please


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## w8lifter (Feb 20, 2003)

Estrogen Dominance 


More 

more 

I don't know if these are good or not...I don't know what I'm looking for? Sounds interesting though?


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 20, 2003)

Thanks Leah, notice the re-occurrig theme or "Increased BF?"...when we search, please make sure lipogenesis, or Body fat is used in the Key words.

Interesting supps re: this topic  Soy, Birth Control-negative, DIIM, Progesterone, Pregnenolone, DHEA-possibly positve (if someone neds direction)...of course "Hormonal Balancing" is in order.

K....who is on "Adrenal Burnout Syndrome?"...

HRT? 

DP


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## tigress (Feb 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> K....who is on "Adrenal Burnout Syndrome?"...
> 
> DP



http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/s...adid=11356&highlight=Adrenal+Burnout+Syndrome

http://www.ironmagazine.com/archive/Supplements_II.htm

I did a google search also, but most of the stuff I found were advertisments for supplements to "help" with adrenal burnout, so i didn't include the links here.


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 20, 2003)

HRT anyone? 

Thanks BTW 

DP


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 24, 2003)

K....sit down when reading this!

I've been thinking "Oh NO!" 

These "major stalls" started occurring when we threw Cardio into the mix....almost all here have "backrounds" of excessive cardio....there is the possibilty....the body remembers......and "shuts down" in response to such stimulation! :uglyisn'tit?:

THE COMMON DENOMINATOR HERE, NOT THYROID, NOT B/C, NOT HRT.....


....Just think about it?  I for one, get fatter everytime I try cardio! 

Try a week off.....drop your cals by 100-150 a day....and see what happens???

Just an Idea 

DP


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## w8lifter (Feb 24, 2003)

I know I complained....but I'm gonna...cause I am so very tired of being soft


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 24, 2003)

DP


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 24, 2003)

...and if someone had time.......a search for Cardio and it's effects on Estrogen (and other hormonal, esp serum cortisol) levels? 

DP


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## w8lifter (Feb 24, 2003)

Searching...but found this...thought it was interesting:

Exercise effects dependent on time of day


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 24, 2003)

That was interesting 

DP


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## w8lifter (Feb 24, 2003)

I kinda am not sure what I'm looking for exactly? lol


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 24, 2003)

On a recent handout I received:

Syptoms of low thyroid level include: fatigue, muscle aches, constipation, dry skin, w8 gain, slow heart rate, sensitivity to cold, or dry brittle hair that tends to fall out easily. 

DP


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> I kinda am not sure what I'm looking for exactly? lol



We're looking for decreased GH or TEST, increased Cortisol and or EST w/cardio or excessive cardio! 


DP


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## w8lifter (Feb 24, 2003)

Well...I found something that says exercises _decreases_ blood levels of estrogen? lol


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 24, 2003)

Post it if you want to....I'm not as bi*assed* as most....lol


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## w8lifter (Feb 24, 2003)

http://www.aphroditewomenshealth.com/news/20020608001109_health_news.shtml

I can't find anything you want ...I give up


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> http://www.aphroditewomenshealth.com/news/20020608001109_health_news.shtml
> 
> I can't find anything you want ...I give up






> the effect of exercise on blood estrogens in postmenopausal women.



Of course..... Their's is declining anyways...lol

Thanks for trying! 

DP


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## w8lifter (Feb 24, 2003)

Yeah...I know, lol ....oh well 

I'll keep looking


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 24, 2003)

http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_doc_format/print/Estrogen_Dominance.htm



> Coffee (especially when accompanied with sugar) also creates an acidic internal environment. The body will try to neutralize the acid by withdrawing valuable minerals such as magnesium and calcium from the bone. This leads to mineral depletion if chronic and ultimately osteoporosis.
> 
> In summary, coffee consumption can lead to increased estrogen, adrenal gland exhaustion, and osteoporosis. Clearly, coffee is not the women's best friend by any means.





> Those who consumed at least 500 mg of caffeine daily, the equivalent of four or five cups of coffee had nearly 70% more estrogen than women who consumed less than 100 mg of caffeine daily. Coffee consumption increases estradiol levels. There are three different forms of estrogen in the body - estrone, estradiol, and estriol. Estradiol is the form that is pro-cancerous.





> 12. Increase in coffee consumption. Caffeine intake from all sources was linked with higher estrogen levels regardless of age, body mass index (BMI), caloric intake, smoking, alcohol, and cholesterol intake. Studies had shown that women who consumed at least 500 milligrams of caffeine daily, the equivalent of four or five cups of coffee, had nearly 70% more estrogen during the early follicular phase than women who consume no more than 100 mg of caffeine daily, or less than one cup of coffee. Tea is not much better as it contains about half the amount of caffeine as compared to coffee. The exception is herbal tea like chamomile that contain no caffeine.



I know......I suck...LOL 

DP


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## w8lifter (Feb 24, 2003)

....Okay....*that* would make me stop drinking coffee!


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 24, 2003)

..and not the fact that it makes you soft?...LOL 


DP


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## w8lifter (Feb 24, 2003)

That just says caffiene....not coffee


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 24, 2003)

What's your point?.....I'll give up coffee if you will...starting tomorrow..and we'll challange all the others too 

DP


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## w8lifter (Feb 24, 2003)

Oh god no...I already tried it...I went back! lol

Although I did realize I CAN do it if I want/need to....now I'm just doing it cause I want to


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> Oh god no...I already tried it...I went back! lol
> 
> Although I did realize I CAN do it if I want/need to....now I'm just doing it cause I want to





That....... sounds like ESTROGEN DOMINANCE! 

DP


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## w8lifter (Feb 24, 2003)

It is not


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## Jodi (Feb 24, 2003)

Damn, that sites got too much info.  Getting brain fried!  

I hate giving up coffee.    Does this include decaf, I know there is a slight bit of caffeine in decaf but how much really??


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 24, 2003)

I'm just pointing something out...Jodi..I wouldn't worry about it.....we are only gonna  quit if w8's quits! 


DP


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## w8lifter (Feb 24, 2003)

Cha!....blame me...you can't do that, lol


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## Jodi (Feb 24, 2003)

Well you 2 can quit.  I'll watch.  I have to draw the line somewhere.    Not my Decaf too   j/k

I always like a challenge.  

Good info on that site regarding medical issues I've been dealing with.


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> Cha!....blame me...you can't do that, lol



Hell Yes I can!  

DP

Jodi....


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 1, 2003)

Need a little Help:

. Randolph TG. Masked food allergy as a factor in the development and persistence of obesity. J Lab Clin Med 1947;32:1547.

DP


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 1, 2003)

Not what I was looking for...but interesting:

http://www.chronicfatiguesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/id/4212/searchtext/lipogenesis/


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 1, 2003)

And an Excellent outline:



http://www.biol.andrews.edu/anat/anp2/lec/metabolism.html


DP


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 1, 2003)

Nat, especially for you! 

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=15644


DP


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## w8lifter (Mar 1, 2003)

Weren't we a busy beaver


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 1, 2003)

*Not a Beaver* 

DP


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## tigress (Mar 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> Nat, especially for you!
> 
> http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=15644
> ...



Thanks DP.


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## w8lifter (Mar 2, 2003)

This would be an interesting article:


Evaluation of health aspects of sugars contained in carbohydrate sweeteners. Report of Sugars Task Force, 1986.

Glinsmann WH, Irausquin H, Park YK.

A critical review composed of two parts: estimates of present levels of sugars intake and of recent trends in nutritive carbohydrate sweetener content of the food supply and a review of recent scientific literature addressing potentially adverse health effects associated with sugars consumption. The review contains an executive summary, an appendix with 75 tables summarizing the estimation of sugars intake of U.S. population groups, and over one thousand citations.

Publication Types: 
Review 

PMID: 3543257 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## w8lifter (Mar 2, 2003)

Not what you're looking for but interesting still....


HEALTH NEWS and VIEWS

by
Theron G. Randolph, MD


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## w8lifter (Mar 2, 2003)

Food Allergies and Obesity:

If an allergic food is eaten several times daily, a masked or chronic allergic reaction may develop. This reaction is characterized by an improvement in chronic symptoms occurring immediately after food is eaten, followed by a progressive increase in symptoms after about 2 hours. Patients with masked allergies learn to avoid these reactions by eating at frequent intervals the foods to which they are allergic. Withdrawal symptoms may include a gnawing hunger sensation, nasal stuffiness, inability to concentrate, fatigue, sleepiness and nervousness. The foods these patients eat most frequently between meals are those which there is the highest incidence of sensitivity; namely, corn, wheat, and milk. As these foods are all high in calories, patients with food allergies may have great difficulty losing weight. However, avoidance of masked allergens is often followed by diuresis (excess urination), disappearance of swelling, decreased appetite, and sudden weight loss.

Randolph TG. Masked food allergy as a factor in the development and persistence of obesity. J Lab Clin Med 1947; 32:1547

http://www.lemmo.com/treatments/weight_loss.htm


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 2, 2003)

Now who has been a busy little .....um....w8lifter: 



> This rapidly developing chemicalization of man???s intake of foods, beverages, drugs, and water supplies as well as such topical and/or inhaled materials as cosmetics, clothing, household furnishings, cleaning agents, janitorial supplies, etc., occurring since the turn of the century . . . [caught us off guard, and] . . . in view of the speed with which chemicalization of the environment is occurring, chronic illnesses presented by today???s chemically susceptible persons are to be regarded as mere curtain-raisers for tomorrow???s far more generalized and endemic environmentally related health problems.



I quote this, because the two Doctors at last nights dinner and I started discussing the "new" thyroid standards for hypothyroidism.....they use a diiferent set of guidlelines from a famous Doctor....5. to 4.0 TSH, but say that they always treat the symptoms regardless of the blood test.  The quote is important because the conversation went to "why" so many people are "fucked up" for lack of a better way to say......hormonally inbalanced!

We agreed that the "environment" had changed in the last few decades......environmental stimulus, toxins, processed foods, estrogens......stress....basically wracking the human system, and causing the need for more HRT (of all kinds).  The conversation drifted around....but ended up at "Environmental and food caused estrogens"  (soys, plastics, etc) being a large part of the dynamic shift in body comp that is prevalent today! 


DP


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## w8lifter (Mar 2, 2003)




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## Dr. Pain (Mar 2, 2003)

...and the last link was quite good...except for the SF comment....(he doesn't totally believe in what he is saying?)

and some other minor mis-information....but I like this:




> Hormones and Metabolism:
> 
> Thyroid
> Growth hormone
> ...



DP


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 2, 2003)

*More from the last link*



> Diet = a way of life or regimen
> 
> Obesity types: divided into hyperplastic & hypertrophic
> 
> ...







> The Aspartame controversy:
> 
> In a one-year follow-up of 78,000 women (aged 50-69) aspartame users were more likely to gain weight than in non-users. These results could not be explained by differences in food consumption patterns.
> 
> Stellman SD et al. Artificial sweetener use and one-year weight change among women. Prev Med 1986;15:195-202




I bet that holds true for some other sweetners, hope the research comes soon! 


DP


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 2, 2003)

*Don't h8 me! *

http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/chemfoodhert.html



> *Coffee is a known phytoestrogen. Coffee is commonly known to make fibrocystic breast disease worse. It is not thought to be the caffeine, but coffee itself mimics estrogen strongly. Thus, decaffinated coffee still may be estrogenic.*



I'll gp further if I need to  


DP

w8...see "Pomegranates"


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 2, 2003)

Interesting but long:

http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cach...02feature.pdf+coffee+estrogens&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

See Xenoestrogens 

DP


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## buff_tat2d_chic (Mar 2, 2003)

Information OVERLOAD!!   

 I don't know what it all means. I have been  for months now...I don't which way I should go


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## w8lifter (Mar 2, 2003)

I told you not to go there!


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 2, 2003)

Watch this (New Thread)...and I haven't started on decaff!


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## w8lifter (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: Don't h8 me! *



> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/chemfoodhert.html
> 
> 
> ...




Okay?...why? I don't eat 'em?


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## w8lifter (Mar 2, 2003)

I'd be more concerned w/ my beer intake than pomegranates


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 2, 2003)

You asked me about them once...I didn't know this then ! 


DP


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> I'd be more concerned w/ my beer intake than pomegranates



Recently? 

DP


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## buff_tat2d_chic (Mar 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> I told you not to go there!



Me??? 
 

I am sorry


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## w8lifter (Mar 2, 2003)

Oh please..according to this EVERYTHING is estrogenic!


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## w8lifter (Mar 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by buff_tat2d_chick *_
> Me???
> 
> 
> I am sorry




LOL! No....DP...sorry BTC....not you


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## w8lifter (Mar 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> Recently?
> 
> DP




No of course not, lol


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## buff_tat2d_chic (Mar 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> LOL! No....DP...sorry BTC....not you



Whew! Ok, thank goodness!


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 2, 2003)

Glad she didn't say "You Suck!"...meaning me of course! 


DP


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> Oh please..according to this EVERYTHING is estrogenic!



Yep.....Everything YOU do....lol....inc...girly 

I hope the Cutter's can find the info in this Thread 

DP


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## Stacey (Mar 3, 2003)

DAMN LOTS OF INFO HERE!!!! I Will take the time to read it all tonight..


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## w8lifter (Mar 15, 2003)

*Why alcohol calories aren't as important as most people think...*


According to conventional wisdom, the infamous "beer belly" is caused by excess alcohol calories being stored as fat. 

However, researchers from the University of California have shown that less than 5% of the alcohol calories you drink are turned into fat. Rather, the main effect of alcohol is to reduce the amount of fat your body burns for energy.

Alcohol calories
Successful weight loss is all about oxidizing (or burning), more calories than you eat. When they go on a diet, many people choose low-calorie alcoholic drinks, mainly because they contain fewer alcohol calories than their regular counterparts.

However, this recent study, published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, shows that even a very small amount of alcohol has a large impact on fat metabolism.

Eight men were given two drinks of vodka and lemonade separated by 30 minutes. Each drink contained just under 90 calories. Fat metabolism was measured before and after consumption of the drink. For several hours after drinking the vodka, whole body lipid oxidation (a measure of how much fat your body is burning) dropped by a massive 73%.


Rather than getting stored as fat, the main fate of alcohol is conversion into a substance called acetate. In fact, blood levels of acetate after drinking the vodka were 2.5 times higher than normal. And it appears this sharp rise in acetate puts the brakes on fat loss.

A car engine typically uses only one source of fuel. Your body, on the other hand, draws from a number of different energy sources, such as carbohydrate, fat, and protein. To a certain extent, the source of fuel your body uses is dictated by its availability.

In other words, your body tends to use whatever you feed it. Consequently, when acetate levels rise, your body simply burns more acetate, and less fat. In essence, acetate pushes fat to the back of the queue. 

So, to summarize and review, here's what happens to fat metabolism after the odd drink or two.

??? A small portion of the alcohol is converted into fat.

??? Your liver then converts most of the alcohol into acetate.

??? The acetate is then released into your bloodstream, and replaces fat as a source of fuel.

Your bodies' response to alcohol is very similar to the way it deals with excess carbohydrate. Although carbohydrate can be converted directly into fat, one of the main effects of overfeeding with carbohydrate is that it simply replaces fat as a source of energy. That's why any type of diet, whether it's high-fat, high-protein, or high-carbohydrate, can lead to a gain in weight.

The bottom line is that even a small amount of alcohol (this study used two servings of vodka and lemonade) can have a big impact on the rate at which your body burns fat ??? even if the drink is low in calories.




Reference
Siler, S.Q., Neese, R.A., & Hellerstein, M.K. (1999). De novo lipogenesis, lipid kinetics, and whole-body lipid balances in humans after acute alcohol consumption. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 70, 928-936

http://thefactsaboutfitness.com/research/alcohol.htm


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 15, 2003)

Most excellent! 

Tidbit, not a Timbit.....

Anybody seen this research? 



> 2. Effects of Sweeteners on Digestion & Appetite
> 
> Research by the American Cancer Society indicates that regular users of artificial sweeteners tend to gain weight not lose it. It is believed this is because artificial sweeteners may slow down digestion and increase appetite.




Jodi...are you on it? 

DP


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## w8lifter (Mar 15, 2003)

I will look for it tomorrow


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 15, 2003)

We've seen this one...



> He also said there was a possibility that chewing gum induced a surge of insulin due to the mouth watering in anticipation of a meal. "It is known that there are insulin receptors in areas of the brain which are important for learning and memory," he said.
> 
> Source: University of Northumbria and the Cognitive Research Unit; Reuters



Interesting:

http://www.diabetolognytt.nu/aterkommande/disputation2.html





> Smoking habits correlated positively with degree of insulin resistance as well as various aspects of IRS. Smoking cessation also improved insulin resistance and IRS in spite of a concomitant increase in body weight. Long-term users of nicotine-containing chewing gum also exhibited insulin resistance and IRS. Again, the degree of insulin resistance was related to the nicotine consumption habits.


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## w8lifter (Mar 16, 2003)

*Effects of sweetness and energy in drinks on food intake following exercise.*

King NA, Appleton K, Rogers PJ, Blundell JE.

Department of Psychology, University of Leeds, UK. neilk@psychology.leeds.ac.uk

Exercise is known to cause physiological changes that could affect the impact of nutrients on appetite control. This study was designed to assess the effect of drinks containing either sucrose or high-intensity sweeteners on food intake following exercise. Using a repeated-measures design, three drink conditions were employed: plain water (W), a low-energy drink sweetened with artificial sweeteners aspartame and acesulfame-K (L), and a high-energy, sucrose-sweetened drink (H). Following a period of challenging exercise (70% VO2 max for 50 min), subjects consumed freely from a particular drink before being offered a test meal at which energy and nutrient intakes were measured. The degree of pleasantness (palatability) of the drinks was also measured before and after exercise. *At the test meal, energy intake following the artificially sweetened (L) drink was significantly greater than after water and the sucrose (H) drinks (p < 0.05).* Compared with the artificially sweetened (L) drink, the high-energy (H) drink suppressed intake by approximately the energy contained in the drink itself. However, there was no difference between the water (W) and the sucrose (H) drink on test meal energy intake. *When the net effects were compared (i.e., drink + test meal energy intake), total energy intake was significantly lower after the water (W) drink compared with the two sweet (L and H) drinks.* The exercise period brought about changes in the perceived pleasantness of the water, but had no effect on either of the sweet drinks. The remarkably precise energy compensation demonstrated after the higher energy sucrose drink suggests that exercise may prime the system to respond sensitively to nutritional manipulations. The results may also have implications for the effect on short-term appetite control of different types of drinks used to quench thirst during and after exercise.

Publication Types: 
Clinical Trial 

PMID: 10336168 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## w8lifter (Mar 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> Most excellent!
> 
> Tidbit, not a Timbit.....
> ...


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## w8lifter (Mar 16, 2003)

Example:


Am J Clin Nutr 1991 Apr;53(4):872-8 Links 


Comment in: 
Am J Clin Nutr. 1993 Jul;58(1):120-2. 

*Effects of intense sweeteners on hunger, food intake, and body weight: a review.*

Rolls BJ.

Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD 21205.

*The sweet taste of aspartame, saccharin, and acesulfame-K has been reported to increase ratings of hunger and, after saccharin consumption, to increase food intake.* However, most investigators have found that aspartame consumption is associated with decreased or unchanged ratings of hunger. Even if aspartame consumption increases ratings of hunger in some situations, it apparently has little impact on the controls of food intake and body weight. Aspartame has not been found to increase food intake; indeed, both short-term and long-term studies have shown that consumption of aspartame-sweetened foods or drinks is associated with either no change or a reduction in food intake. Preliminary clinical trials suggest that aspartame may be useful aid in a complete diet-and-exercise program or in weight maintenance. Intense sweeteners have never been found to cause weight gain in humans.

Publication Types: 
Review 
Review, Tutorial 

PMID: 2008866 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## w8lifter (Mar 16, 2003)

Physiol Behav 1993 Mar;53(3):459-66 Links 


*Consuming aspartame with and without taste: differential effects on appetite and food intake of young adult males.*

Black RM, Leiter LA, Anderson GH.

Department of Nutritional Sciences, Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto, Canada.

Despite some reports that aspartame (APM)-sweetened beverages may increase subjective appetite, previously we demonstrated that drinking 280 ml of an APM-sweetened soft drink (170 mg APM) had no effect on appetite, and 560 ml of the same soft drink (340 mg APM) reduced appetite. The present study examined this appetite reduction to determine its cause. Eighteen normal weight young adult males received five treatments (beverage preloads) at 1100 h in a randomized order, one per week: 280 ml of carbonated mineral water (CMW) (control), 560 ml of CMW, 280 ml of CMW with 340 mg of encapsulated APM, 280 ml of CMW sweetened with 340 mg APM, 560 ml of an APM-sweetened soft drink (340 mg APM). Subjective hunger and food appeal were measured from 0930 a.m. to 1230 h, and food intake from a buffet lunch offered at 1205 h was measured. Treatment had no effect on food intake or macronutrient selection. *Both 560 ml of CMW or soft drink suppressed appetite, although 280 ml of APM-sweetened mineral water significantly increased subjective appetite relative to the control. *Encapsulated APM had no effect on appetite. *Therefore, appetite reduction following consumption of an APM-sweetened drink is likely due to drink volume and not the APM content. In addition, consuming APM-sweetened CMW produces a short-term increase in subjective appetite.*

Publication Types: 
Clinical Trial 
Randomized Controlled Trial 

PMID: 8451310 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## w8lifter (Mar 16, 2003)

Physiol Behav 1990 Mar;47(3):555-9 Links 


*Oral stimulation with aspartame increases hunger.*

Tordoff MG, Alleva AM.

Monell Chemical Senses Center, Philadelphia, PA 19104.

We evaluated whether "sweetness" increases hunger. Groups of 10 male and 10 female subjects chewed a gum base containing one of four concentrations of aspartame (0.05%, 0.3%, 0.5%, or 1.0%) for 15 min. Relative to groups given nothing or unsweetened gum base to chew, *groups given the sweetened gum bases increased hunger ratings,* but not in a manner monotonically related to aspartame concentration. The most effective aspartame concentration to increase hunger was 0.3% for females and 0.5% for males. *The highest aspartame concentrations had a time-dependent, biphasic effect on appetite, producing a transient decrease followed by a sustained increase in hunger ratings.* Thus, the concentration of the sweetener, the sex of the subject and the time after chewing, were all important determinants of whether "sweetness" increased hunger.

PMID: 2359769 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 16, 2003)

Wow Leah..very impressive.  A tiny bit of conflicting info...makes me wonder who paid for it!

I think we have been avoiding the "Sweetners" in protein powder for too long......I only have an example of one......but I watched WL go from 3-4 shakes out of 7-8 meals.  he eats every 2 hours like a machine) ...to more whole food..and maybe 1 shake...PWO...and sometimes one more if rushed....and I think he's gotten some impressive results!  

FOOD RULES! 

What I got from those studies....is that 1)  More than just aspertame..may be the culprit...I wish they had addressed insulin levels (lowering serum glucose, possibly thru lipogenesis), which in turn created more hunger 

2)  Some of these sports drinks I sell....very artificially sweet...that some drink before or during their W/O....may not be the "All That" and be hurting their progress Face it, Everyone want to be leaner...and most bigger and leaner....lol



DP


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## w8lifter (Mar 16, 2003)

Ok...so...just to sum all that shiat up .....after reading sick amts of studies this morning (more than just posted here) it seems that aspartame and acesulfame-K increases perceived hunger but doesn't necessarily lead to increased energy intake (perhaps because of reduced-calorie food choices? i.e. more aspartame-sweetened foods as opposed to sugar-sweetened foods. However, saccarine (sp?) definitely leads to increased subsequent energy intakes.


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 16, 2003)

There are Aspartame links obesity studies btw...Yeah I read a lot yesterday....again they are avoiding insulin as a topic!

The gum studies too.....it increases calories expenditure, it improves memory (via circulation to the brain)..etc...and then the brush offf the insulin producing effect as a "good thing" on brain cells, but neglect the possibility of storing serum glucose as FAT!

They are missing the point....I know it, you know, it will be proven one day soon....else it has and been swept under the table by the processed food and candy biz...and we just have to find it! 

DP


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## Dr. Pain (Mar 16, 2003)

BTW...I didn't post it, but music at 60 bpm (like a relaxed heartrate) improves studying and memory ablity! 

DP


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## Erilaya (Apr 2, 2003)

Holy Crap I just missed a meeting with a new client cos I got absorbed reading all this! Damn! oops.. umm I beter call and reschedule.. 

great reading.. 

thanks guys for sharing your vast knowledge and unending patience.

Eri'


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## Dr. Pain (May 30, 2003)

Big Freaking Bump! 

DP


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