# Steroids & Teens?



## Missfit4all (Mar 21, 2005)

did u all hear on the News how more & more teenagers R using Steroids these days?  Apparently there is a Steroid Boom sweeping the Nation among teens?   They even found a high percentage of 5th & 6th graders taking Steroids!    


_____________________
If i was their Mama there would be a lot of this...  and i'd say, "WTF?"  lol.


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## shiznit2169 (Mar 21, 2005)

ya it's ridiculous. People need to show them side affects of using steroids like liver/kidney problems or blood clots that can lead to serious damage. One guy (a boxer) on the news had both of his legs amputated. He was only like 25 years old.

It's all major league baseball fault. Way to step up at the hearing mcguire, palmeiro, sosa, schilling..they were clueless and refused to talk about their past.


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## Mudge (Mar 21, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> One guy (a boxer) on the news had both of his legs amputated. He was only like 25 years old.



Have to give the guy credit for going to the hospital for getting his infection checked out before it turned to gangrene, oh wait, he didn't! Smart guy that one. So of course he keeps on injecting, into his other leg when he lost one already. Yes, smarty pants indeed. Just without the pants part. Maybe if he were cleaner he wouldn't have had that problem.



> It's all major league baseball fault. Way to step up at the hearing mcguire, palmeiro, sosa, schilling..they were clueless and refused to talk about their past.



Yeah right, nobody in any other sport takes steroids. Blame it on Baseball because everyone else is doing it so it must be right. 

I think it is YOU who is clueless.


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## Dale Mabry (Mar 21, 2005)

I think it is congress' fault for bringing it up in the first place.


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## crazy_enough (Mar 21, 2005)

There was a show on tv last nite, one of the guests was there to discuss a book he recently published about steroids and "candy" (sudafed, ephedrine etc...) in professional hockey. What pissed me off, is that he talks of players having heart attacks, dying by 30 and so on, but never mentions ABUSE of those substances, steroid or not....Of COURSE he died on the ice, he had taken over 150 mg's of ephedrine between warm up and puck drop!!! DUH!!! There wasnt an ounce of seriousness or educational value in his comments...He talked about how gyno is INEVITABLE on gear etc... He was so clueless and stupid, when the host asked about testicular atrophy, he just replied" I dont worry about that, mine are huge anyways!"...Fucking tool!


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## musclepump (Mar 21, 2005)

It's all steroids fault, don't you know? Doesn't matter how much, when you take it, how old you are. Noooo... nope nope nope. Just steroids. Steroids steroids steroids. One exogenous gram of Test and you, my friend, are fucked!


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## crazy_enough (Mar 21, 2005)

musclepump said:
			
		

> It's all steroids fault, don't you know? Doesn't matter how much, when you take it, how old you are. Noooo... nope nope nope. Just steroids. Steroids steroids steroids. One exogenous gram of Test and you, my friend, are fucked!


exacly what I thought!!!


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## CowPimp (Mar 21, 2005)

I think this is a dissapointing statistic, as teenagers should not be using steroids at all in my opinion.  Furthermore, people that young are probably less likely to take the time to research proper dosages, post cycle treatments, and whatever else is entailed in steroid usage to ensure their safety.

Don't jump on me, as I'm not trying to bastardize steroid usage.  However, that is my opinion and I stand by it.


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## Missfit4all (Mar 21, 2005)

Take Steroids and have a little of this ...  that makes for a lot of this....  ....or perhaps one dead Monster?


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## Flex (Mar 21, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> ya it's ridiculous. People need to show them side affects of using steroids like liver/kidney problems or blood clots that can lead to serious damage. One guy (a boxer) on the news had both of his legs amputated. He was only like 25 years old.
> 
> It's all major league baseball fault. Way to step up at the hearing mcguire, palmeiro, sosa, schilling..they were clueless and refused to talk about their past.



That boxer brought that shit on himself, and You are an idiot.

ya, it's REALLY MLB's fault. Barry Bonds went to a dealer, bought steroids, and injected them into kids all over the nation. Get a fuckin' clue. You wanna know why those guys refused to talk about thier use? So they don't get castrated by assholes like you who think steroids made their careers and ruined the lives of kids.


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## Flex (Mar 21, 2005)

Missfit4all said:
			
		

> Apparently there is a Steroid Boom sweeping the Nation among teens?   They even found a high percentage of 5th & 6th graders taking Steroids!



That's REAL believable


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## ihateschoolmt (Mar 21, 2005)

Flex said:
			
		

> That's REAL believable


 I didn't even know what a steriod was in 5th grade, we didn't even cuss yet!


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## DOMS (Mar 21, 2005)

Missfit4all said:
			
		

> Take Steroids and have a little of this ...  that makes for a lot of this....  ....or perhaps one dead Monster?


 To be correct, you'd need to say this:

 Take *an excessive amount of* Steroids *with no cycling and no PCT* and have a *lot* of this ...  that makes for a lot of this....  ....or perhaps one dead *idiot*? 

 We now resume our usual uninformed post...


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## Deeznuts (Mar 21, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> Yeah right, nobody in any other sport takes steroids. Blame it on Baseball because everyone else is doing it so it must be right.
> 
> I think it is YOU who is clueless.



True that..I can't think of a single sport that hasn't been effected by performance enhancing drugs.


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## Vieope (Mar 21, 2005)

Deeznuts said:
			
		

> True that..I can't think of a single sport that hasn't been effected by performance enhancing drugs.


_Chess_


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## DOMS (Mar 21, 2005)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _Chess_


 Yeah, bu they have Bobby Fisher.  Thanks, but I'll take the steroids instead.


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## SlimShady (Mar 21, 2005)

In the meantime, you can stroll down to almost any market on the corner and buy a pack of cigarettes and a bottle of whiskey. But congress is worried about steroids and they even banned PHs. 

 Then they wonder why fewer and fewer people seem to respect the law.


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## DOMS (Mar 21, 2005)

SlimShady said:
			
		

> In the meantime, you can stroll down to almost any market on the corner and buy a pack of cigarettes and a bottle of whiskey. But congress is worried about steroids and they even banned PHs.
> 
> Then they wonder why fewer and fewer people seem to respect the law.


  There are two reasons for that:

  1. Steroid makers don't bribe politicians, a.k.a. contributing to their campaigns.
  2. People that use alcohol and cigarettes don't make the skinny-ass lawmakers feel inadequate.


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## musclepump (Mar 21, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> 2. People that use alcohol and cigarettes don't make the skinny-ass lawmakers feel inadequate.


Correct, because then they're just like them.


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## BulkMeUp (Mar 21, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> People need to show them side affects of using steroids like liver/kidney problems or blood clots that can lead to serious damage..


I dont think this will help much. Kinda like all the anti smoking programmes, kids (and ppl with enough common sense) still do it. Not to say those programs are useless, but not extremly effective either.


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## Duncans Donuts (Mar 21, 2005)

Missfit4all said:
			
		

> Take Steroids and have a little of this ...  that makes for a lot of this....  ....or perhaps one dead Monster?



Oh, wow.


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## Mudge (Mar 21, 2005)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _Chess_



You dont think Kasparov was using something? Hmmmmmm, he was pretty brutal!

I find it hard to believe 5th and 6th graders would be using "steroids," for them to even get their hands on 1-Test or something seems far fetched. I could picture perhaps a few with an older brother or something along those lines, but it just seems crazy.

I would say even 1% of high school users "using" is a high percentage and not all that likely at all. Of course if they pooled only several "bad" schools with those kinds of issues, then I'm sure they could skew statitistics enough to make it look like an epidemic as they so claim.


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## ihateschoolmt (Mar 21, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> Of course if they pooled only several "bad" schools with those kinds of issues, then I'm sure they could skew statitistics enough to make it look like an epidemic as they so claim.


 Ya, but even in the school I go to ,the worst drug school in the county, there is not many kids on steroids.


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## Uzi9 (Mar 21, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> Oh, wow.


Are you still training HIT style duncan


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## sgtneo (Mar 21, 2005)

i dont think teenagers shouold use steroids as they are still growing and their bodies adjusting, but through some basic research i have done steroids are not nearly as bad as what they say, its all through word of mouth thats has been passed around like chinese whispers, someone had gangreen because they didnt keep good hygene not because of the steroids but in order to make these performance enhancing drugs seem worse than they are, people adapt the stories and use them to their advantage, untill sociaty accepts that steroids are fine in carefully moderated and planned cycles, steroids will be frowned upon.


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## Duncans Donuts (Mar 21, 2005)

No, actually, I'm using variations.  Still low volume (roughly 8 total sets, depending on the day) but much more strict form and changing of exercises every 4-5 week including rest intervals between sets and performance.

The change has been phenomenal.  Depending on the time in a 14 week cycle, I'll increase the volume up to 12-14 total sets and typically go back down to 8 for the remainder.  Though variables will adjust when necessary.


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## The__wenger (Mar 21, 2005)

I'am currently 17 and playing fairly serious baseball, I will have to admit using steroids had once been very intriguing, but I have never used them and instead have committed myelsf to improving my game the "natural" way. I can clearly see why many teenagers and kids have been using them, especially when playing amateur baseball, I personally know 2 guys on my team last year who admitted to using steroids and to my knowledge still use them. What I'd like to know is how they (kids) have access to steroids?


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## musclepump (Mar 21, 2005)

The__wenger said:
			
		

> I'am currentlu 17 and playing fairly serious baseball, I will have to admit using steroids had once been very intriguing, but I have never used them and instead have committed myelsf to improving my game the "natural" way. I can clearly see why many teenagers and kids have been using them, especially when playing amateur baseball, I personally know 2 guys on my team last year who admitted to using steroids and to my knowledge still use them. What I'd like to know is how they (kids) have access to steroids?


Because once you find a good source, they don't care how old you are. And finding a source is just about knowing people--it's how I got mine and how everyone I know got theirs. I don't know anyone who personally knows their source, but I do live in a small circle of gear users.


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## Mudge (Mar 21, 2005)

ihateschoolmt said:
			
		

> Ya, but even in the school I go to ,the worst drug school in the county, there is not many kids on steroids.



I could have pointed to maybe 5 or 6 guys out of thousands.


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## shiznit2169 (Mar 21, 2005)

> That boxer brought that shit on himself, and You are an idiot.
> 
> ya, it's REALLY MLB's fault. Barry Bonds went to a dealer, bought steroids, and injected them into kids all over the nation. Get a fuckin' clue. You wanna know why those guys refused to talk about thier use? So they don't get castrated by assholes like you who think steroids made their careers and ruined the lives of kids.



WHOA Tough Guy! I obviously knew that the boxer brought that shit on himself. As for the rest of you, i was being sarcastic about the MLB hearing. Flex, maybe you're too stupid to understand the difference between a sarcastic comment and a serious comment. I just brought it up because they just had a hearing a few days ago. Also, MLB players may have made an impression on some younger kids like when Jose Canseco first brought it up and the ongoing nonsense from the media and players. Young kids can see how big and successful they are so they tend to use it. While you're at it, why don't you think about taking some anger management classes. 
Chill out.


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## Vieope (Mar 21, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> Yes, smarty pants indeed. Just without the pants part.


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## DDan16 (Mar 21, 2005)

i belive if one is properly educated, steroids arent harmful.. no matter the age.


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## Vieope (Mar 21, 2005)

DDan16 said:
			
		

> i belive if one is properly educated, steroids arent harmful.. no matter the age.


_I think the same thing. _


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## DOMS (Mar 21, 2005)

What about the issue of hardening the growth plates?  Or has that no basis in facts?


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## Vieope (Mar 21, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> What about the issue of hardening the growth plates?  Or has that no basis in facts?


_To begin there are no studies and I already had a big discussion in another thread about this. 
But do you think the growth plates will shut down in every situation when steroids are administered? _


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## Flex (Mar 21, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> WHOA Tough Guy! I obviously knew that the boxer brought that shit on himself. As for the rest of you, i was being sarcastic about the MLB hearing. Flex, maybe you're too stupid to understand the difference between a sarcastic comment and a serious comment.



ya, this sounds REAL sarcastic:


			
				shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> ya it's ridiculous. People need to show them side affects of using steroids like liver/kidney problems or blood clots that can lead to serious damage. One guy (a boxer) on the news had both of his legs amputated. He was only like 25 years old.
> 
> It's all major league baseball fault. Way to step up at the hearing mcguire, palmeiro, sosa, schilling..they were clueless and refused to talk about their past.



i'll take anger management classes when you clueless critics stfu. Oh, i forgot, you were being "sarcastic". If you were trying to be funny, or fasiscous (sp.), try sounding sarcastic next time then.


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## DDan16 (Mar 21, 2005)

oh well i guess ill just have to find out for myself


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## DOMS (Mar 21, 2005)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _To begin there are no studies and I already had a big discussion in another thread about this.
> But do you think the growth plates will shut down in every situation when steroids are administered? _


 I don't know, which was why I asked.

 But the idea that steroids would lock the growth plates makes sense.  The growth plates lock around the peak of natural testosterone production.  If one were to simulate such levels long enough, it may result in the body hardening the growth plates.


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## shiznit2169 (Mar 21, 2005)

Flex, really...save your fingers from pointless flaming. There is no need to start this shit at all. You're obviously a person with a terrible attitude and take it out on people over the forums. Be a man and don't even say anything. I'm not going to even waste my time arguing with you because you will still continue to flame and will throw more pathetic insults at me. Grow up.


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## DDan16 (Mar 21, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> I don't know, which was why I asked.
> 
> But the idea that steroids would lock the growth plates makes sense.  The growth plates lock around the peak of natural testosterone production.  If one were to simulate such levels long enough, it may result in the body hardening the growth plates.



well, im new to the steroid biz, but im learning.  and from what ive learned, steroids dont stimulate natural test, infact they suppress natural test. so the steroids wouldnt trigger the lock of plates, right?


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## DOMS (Mar 21, 2005)

DDan16 said:
			
		

> well, im new to the steroid biz, but im learning. and from what ive learned, steroids dont stimulate natural test, infact they suppress natural test. so the steroids wouldnt trigger the lock of plates, right?


 Steroids shut down natural test production because the elevate test levels to the point that the body feels no need to produce any.


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## Vieope (Mar 21, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> I don't know, which was why I asked.
> 
> But the idea that steroids would lock the growth plates makes sense.  The growth plates lock around the peak of natural testosterone production.  If one were to simulate such levels *long enough*, it may result in the body hardening the growth plates.


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## DDan16 (Mar 21, 2005)

my bad


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## DOMS (Mar 21, 2005)

Vieope said:
			
		

>


 How long is long enough though?  Three cycles?  Four?  Or maybe just one?


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## Missfit4all (Mar 21, 2005)

Just spitting out words....  lol.

There's a heck of a lot more stuff put in them there Steroids than what's in our Man-made Processed foods ....that we R all so encouraged 2 stay the heck away from?


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## Duncans Donuts (Mar 21, 2005)

Are you equating fast food with performance enhancing drugs / hormones ???


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## DOMS (Mar 21, 2005)

Missfit4all said:
			
		

> Just spitting out words....  lol.
> 
> There's a heck of a lot more stuff put in them there Steroids than what's in our Man-made Processed foods ....that we R all so encouraged 2 stay the heck away from?


 Ignorance.  Just as what is in your posts.

 "There's a heck of a lot more stuff put in them there Steroids than what's in our Man-made Processed foods" - From Ignorance

 Or maybe it's just stupidity.  But where does one end and the other begin?  With the your mouth.


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## Duncans Donuts (Mar 21, 2005)

How anyone could draw such a comparison is absolutely baffling...

Does the endocrine system (gonads) secrete cheesburgers??


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## Missfit4all (Mar 21, 2005)

Golly Gee...it was just a bad joke?  
Get it?  Stay away from anything processed?    

____________________
May God Bless your potty mouth.


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## DOMS (Mar 21, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> How anyone could draw such a comparison is absolutely baffling...
> 
> Does the endocrine system (gonads) secrete cheesburgers??


 You've done something horrible to my mental eye.


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## Missfit4all (Mar 21, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> Ignorance.  Just as what is in your posts.
> 
> "There's a heck of a lot more stuff put in them there Steroids than what's in our Man-made Processed foods" - From Ignorance
> 
> Or maybe it's just stupidity.  But where does one end and the other begin?  With the your mouth.




life is a lesson...
have u not learned it Best 2B a foolish man than a wicked one?

______________


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## DOMS (Mar 21, 2005)

Missfit4all said:
			
		

> life is a lesson...
> have u not learned it Best 2B a foolish man than a wicked one?
> 
> ______________


 O-k-a-y...  

 So wicked men are the ones that use steroids but the foolish ones do not?


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## Yanick (Mar 21, 2005)

just for the record, its estrogen that is implicated in the fusing of growth plates, not test. and the reason people say don't do steroids is because they aromatize into estrogen (all steroids having different levels of aromatization) and can potentially stop your growth.


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## gr81 (Mar 21, 2005)

> WHOA Tough Guy! I obviously knew that the boxer brought that shit on himself. As for the rest of you, i was being sarcastic about the MLB hearing. Flex, maybe you're too stupid to understand the difference between a sarcastic comment and a serious comment. I just brought it up because they just had a hearing a few days ago. Also, MLB players may have made an impression on some younger kids like when Jose Canseco first brought it up and the ongoing nonsense from the media and players. Young kids can see how big and successful they are so they tend to use it. While you're at it, why don't you think about taking some anger management classes.
> Chill out.



First off son, Flex is far from stupid and its ridiculous to hint otherwise, and excuse the man for not being able to tell over the internet, in print, the emotional context of a statement you made. Maybe it's you that needs to clarify your position and nto assume that everyone else is on teh same page as your sarcasm, huh? He has anger that stems from high levels of frustration regarding the subject of AAS, as does anyone else who is educated on the subject and is forced to listen to the constant editorializing and loaded propaganda-like reports day in and day out, people simply are flat out lying to cater to special interest groups on the subject of AAS. Now if you think he has an anger problem towards the subject, wait till you get me involved in the debate which is whats gonna happen when you talk shit about my friend. You know its not the job of proffessional athletes to educate children on their health decisions, its the job of the federal government and education systems, and if they didn't lie about the drug situation in this country day in and day out then maybe children would be able to make informed decisions and be able to trust that information! Maybe if the government displayed the same convictions that pays lip service to during elections then this countries priorities would be fillde with more value. How is it that this country can cash baseballs check on a monday and try to admonish them for the very achievements they were praised for earlier? Steroids in baseball was the greatest thing to happen to the game in the last 20 years. Without the Hr race with McGwire and Sosa, Baseball would never have recovered from its strike and would be dead. Without Bonds chase for Aarons's record, baseball would be dead, and frankly when the government trys to lecture these finely tuned athletes on the state of their conditioning b/c they have a higher hormone level, it makes them, look absolutely hypocritical and completely foolish and ridiculous, and theres just no way to get around that. Maybe it wouldn't be quite so hypocritical if these men making the laws spend even five minutes in their entire life researching what these hormones are and what they truly do, or at least didn't spend so much time associating themselves with and accepting the campaign contributions of the tobacco company who hold this government by the balls. Fucc that, and if you side with them then fucc you too.. ya dig


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## min0 lee (Mar 21, 2005)

Missfit4all said:
			
		

> life is a lesson...
> have u not learned it Best 2B a foolish man than a wicked one?
> 
> ______________



This is a tough crowd Missfit, they may sound mean but deep down they are cool.


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## Yanick (Mar 21, 2005)

gr81 said:
			
		

> First off son, Flex is far from stupid and its ridiculous to hint otherwise, and excuse the man for not being able to tell over the internet, in print, the emotional context of a statement you made. Maybe it's you that needs to clarify your position and nto assume that everyone else is on teh same page as your sarcasm, huh? He has anger that stems from high levels of frustration regarding the subject of AAS, as does anyone else who is educated on the subject and is forced to listen to the constant editorializing and loaded propaganda-like reports day in and day out, people simply are flat out lying to cater to special interest groups on the subject of AAS. Now if you think he has an anger problem towards the subject, wait till you get me involved in the debate which is whats gonna happen when you talk shit about my friend. You know its not the job of proffessional athletes to educate children on their health decisions, its the job of the federal government and education systems, and if they didn't lie about the drug situation in this country day in and day out then maybe children would be able to make informed decisions and be able to trust that information! Maybe if the government displayed the same convictions that pays lip service to during elections then this countries priorities would be fillde with more value. How is it that this country can cash baseballs check on a monday and try to admonish them for the very achievements they were praised for earlier? Steroids in baseball was the greatest thing to happen to the game in the last 20 years. Without the Hr race with McGwire and Sosa, Baseball would never have recovered from its strike and would be dead. Without Bonds chase for Aarons's record, baseball would be dead, and frankly when the government trys to lecture these finely tuned athletes on the state of their conditioning b/c they have a higher hormone level, it makes them, look absolutely hypocritical and completely foolish and ridiculous, and theres just no way to get around that. Maybe it wouldn't be quite so hypocritical if these men making the laws spend even five minutes in their entire life researching what these hormones are and what they truly do, or at least didn't spend so much time associating themselves with and accepting the campaign contributions of the tobacco company who hold this government by the balls. Fucc that, and if you side with them then fucc you too.. ya dig



very well stated. i'd like to emphasize certain facts in this thread that i think are key to this debate.

-baseball is far from the only sport to use performance enhancing drugs
-it is not the job of any sports professional in the world to explain to kids right and wrong. that is their parent's/teacher's job.
-we have soldiers dying in Iraq, jobless americans, kids shooting up schools and these dumbfucks are questioning baseball players about what they are putting in their own bodies? gimme a fuckin break.
-steroids are not an unfair advantage, they are a product of human advancement in technology. You can't say shit like "x player didn't use and got y record" well chances are that guys coach also told him not to lift weights because he'll get 'bulky' and 'muscle bound' so we should outlaw resistance training because the oldschoolers didn't use it?
-in the grand scheme of things "WHO GIVES A FUCK WHAT THESE GUY'S ARE PUTTING INTO THEIR BODIES, THERE ARE MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THINGS THAT THE FRONT PAGE OF THE NEWSPAPER SHOULD BE FEATURING''


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## gr81 (Mar 21, 2005)

> -steroids are not an unfair advantage, they are a product of human advancement in technology. You can't say shit like "x player didn't use and got y record" well chances are that guys coach also told him not to lift weights because he'll get 'bulky' and 'muscle bound' so we should outlaw resistance training because the oldschoolers didn't use it?



exactly! whats next, banning food b/c its too anabolic! no more protien powder either for gods sake, these things are all optimizing your biological production and therefore its cheating! shit what about players who have better genetics, thats an unfair advantage and is therefore cheating by that rational. Should we put an asterisk next to players of this generation b/c they have better gloves and bats and better gear overall? The fact of the matter is that the playing field IS NEVER AND HAS NEVER BEEN LEVEL, NOR WILL IT EVER BE. thats the point of competition in the first place, for one person to supercede the next. if everything was completely level and fair what would be the point? Steroids are not a one way ticket to success, not by a long shot, and if you thikn that all that is seperating Barry Bonds and a AA player is the juice, your a fool and you have no place in the debate. peace


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## Duncans Donuts (Mar 21, 2005)

I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't jump in here.  Guys who can smack the shit out of a baseball (hand eye coordination) don't get better at doing that (hand eye coordination) by taking juice.  This is fact.


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## SlimShady (Mar 22, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't jump in here. Guys who can smack the shit out of a baseball (hand eye coordination) don't get better at doing that (hand eye coordination) by taking juice. This is fact.


 Steroids won't increase the ability to make contact with the ball, but added muscle will increase power which equals hitting distance. 

 But, is that a bad thing? Ticket prices are sky high, MLB has got taxpayers paying for new stadiums, salaries are insane - do I (as a fan) want to see players using juice in order to play the game with more power??

 Fuck yeah ... If it costs me $200 to take my family to a game then I want to see the players fly like fuckin Superman, knock balls outta the park and leap tall fuckin buildings in a single bound. And I don't care how they do it. 

 If they are so worried about the 'sanctity of the game' then lets banish Nike footwear. I mean, afterall, the guys back in 1940 had to play in old leather soled cleats. So let's put a star next to all modern base running records. 

   MLB messed up. Someone should have just shot Canseco...


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## Flex (Mar 22, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> Flex, really...save your fingers from pointless flaming. There is no need to start this shit at all. You're obviously a person with a terrible attitude and take it out on people over the forums. Be a man and don't even say anything. I'm not going to even waste my time arguing with you because you will still continue to flame and will throw more pathetic insults at me. Grow up.



Right, i just go around and take out my terrible attitude on people  

As a matter of fact, the only time i really get fired up on these forums is when dumbass people make ignorant comments about AAS (and when people put down the Pats). It's getting awfully tiresome to see the same bullshit spewed over the TV, radio, paper and now, of all places, on BB forums where i'd hope people at least had enough common sense to open their eyes and question authority, so to speak. Don't listen to every political piece of bullshit that you hear, that's all. Make an educated judgement for yourself, and i'd bet it comes out differently the next time.


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## shiznit2169 (Mar 22, 2005)

are you talking about the New England Patriots? If you are, funny you mentioned it because i'm from foxboro (hometown of the pats) and you're right, they get no respect at all from the media. All these espn "experts" rely on stats and teams with superstars that will beat a team with no stars and the fact that they are not a flashy team. I mean come on, the pats beat the colts 20-3 or something in the playoffs and they still get no respect when they faced the steelers? Look what happened, they destroyed them like they were a rookie team. Then the superbowl comes and all the talk was about whether or not T.O would play with a broken ankle and freddy mitchell runs his mouth. Even after the game, the first thing they talked about was how T.O proved everyone wrong and talked about him and his amazing stats. Hello? He's not the whole team and they didn't win the superbowl...

Anytime i hear the so called experts talk about the Pats, i change the channel. The only guys i listen to are Chris Berman and Tom Jackson.


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## Flex (Mar 22, 2005)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> are you talking about the New England Patriots? If you are, funny you mentioned it because i'm from foxboro (hometown of the pats) and you're right, they get no respect at all from the media. All these espn "experts" rely on stats and teams with superstars that will beat a team with no stars and the fact that they are not a flashy team. I mean come on, the pats beat the colts 20-3 or something in the playoffs and they still get no respect when they faced the steelers? Look what happened, they destroyed them like they were a rookie team. Then the superbowl comes and all the talk was about whether or not T.O would play with a broken ankle and freddy mitchell runs his mouth. Even after the game, the first thing they talked about was how T.O proved everyone wrong and talked about him and his amazing stats. Hello? He's not the whole team and they didn't win the superbowl...
> 
> Anytime i hear the so called experts talk about the Pats, i change the channel. The only guys i listen to are Chris Berman and Tom Jackson.


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## brogers (Mar 22, 2005)

gr81, good post but I disagree about it being the government/education system's job to teach about steroids(or drugs for that matter).  This reflects the extreme degredation of personal responsibility in America.  We have welfare for unemployed, drug rehabs, etc all funded by others to fix problems created by individuals (most often by their own decisions).  Parents refuse to take any sort of responsibility for their children's action, and don't want any responsibility placed on the children themselves either.  The government's job is to protect us from foreign invaders and provide for domestic tranquility, I personally, do not believe the government should have to protect people from themselves.  If you screw yourself up, I'm sorry for you, but it does not in any way, shape, or form neccessitate help from myself, my family, my friends, or any tax payer in America to help fix your problem or prevent it from happening.  

I can't believe congress cares about 2 kids who committed suicide after using steroids.  I am willing to bet that the suicide rate for teens on steroids is LOWER than the suicide rate of all teens.  2 Kids in what 6 years out of a pretty sizeable number, let's compare that to the suicide rate of the general population.

It is ridiculous to think that the parents of those 2 kids who committed suicide, SUPPOSEDLY because of depression linked to steroids, placed about 90% of the blame on people other than themselves and their kids.  I say kids when I believe they were 18 and 19 years old, these aren't 2nd graders who don't know any better.  It's tragic they took their own lives, but there was probably a lot more involved than simply taking steroids.  The parents are looking for an excuse or a reason their kids committed suicide, because they don't want to think of themselves as failures.  MLB is the failure.  The government failed, but not them, and not their children.


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## Flex (Mar 22, 2005)

brogers said:
			
		

> gr81, good post but I disagree about it being the government/education system's job to teach about steroids(or drugs for that matter).  This reflects the extreme degredation of personal responsibility in America.  We have welfare for unemployed, drug rehabs, etc all funded by others to fix problems created by individuals (most often by their own decisions).  Parents refuse to take any sort of responsibility for their children's action, and don't want any responsibility placed on the children themselves either.  The government's job is to protect us from foreign invaders and provide for domestic tranquility, I personally, do not believe the government should have to protect people from themselves.  If you screw yourself up, I'm sorry for you, but it does not in any way, shape, or form neccessitate help from myself, my family, my friends, or any tax payer in America to help fix your problem or prevent it from happening.



I see where you're coming from, b/c people look for any excuse in the book to pin it on but themselves. But, saying "if you screw up, your loss" isn't the correct answer. The reason the gov't steps up is b/c people are naturally dumbasses. They'll drink, smoke, eat and do every other thing without thinking twice, b/c people don't consider even think about consequences until they happen to them (ie smoking for decades, then contemplating quitting once they get lung cancer). That's why EDUCATION is the most important thing.





			
				brogers said:
			
		

> I can't believe congress cares about 2 kids who committed suicide after using steroids.  I am willing to bet that the suicide rate for teens on steroids is LOWER than the suicide rate of all teens.  2 Kids in what 6 years out of a pretty sizeable number, let's compare that to the suicide rate of the general population.
> 
> It is ridiculous to think that the parents of those 2 kids who committed suicide, SUPPOSEDLY because of depression linked to steroids, placed about 90% of the blame on people other than themselves and their kids.  I say kids when I believe they were 18 and 19 years old, these aren't 2nd graders who don't know any better.  It's tragic they took their own lives, but there was probably a lot more involved than simply taking steroids.  The parents are looking for an excuse or a reason their kids committed suicide, because they don't want to think of themselves as failures. MLB is the failure.  The government failed, but not them, and not their children.


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## Mudge (Mar 22, 2005)

DDan16 said:
			
		

> well, im new to the steroid biz, but im learning.  and from what ive learned, steroids dont stimulate natural test, infact they suppress natural test. so the steroids wouldnt trigger the lock of plates, right?



Testosterone in the body is testosterone, your bones dont care where it came from, its there. When estrogen is high this triggers the closure of the plates, and with high amounts of testosterone this will cause a high amount of estrogen, which will prematurely close the plates. I did know one guy in high school who I could swear was using, but he ended up being 6'4", so I dont know.


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## Mudge (Mar 22, 2005)

Missfit4all said:
			
		

> There's a heck of a lot more stuff put in them there Steroids than what's in our Man-made Processed foods ....that we R all so encouraged 2 stay the heck away from?



More stuff? Aspirin is aspirin and a binder, testosterone is testosterone, various alcohols (benzyl alcohol and benzyl benzoate) and a carrier oil. There is nothing more in there they are hiding from you.


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## Missfit4all (Mar 22, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> More stuff? Aspirin is aspirin and a binder, testosterone is testosterone, various alcohols (benzyl alcohol and benzyl benzoate) and a carrier oil. There is nothing more in there they are hiding from you.



Hey Mudge, from what i have viewed on this forum, you are an Honest, Supportive, Positive person around here, and i respect that.  

Having said that, my reply in relating Steroids (as processed) and in relevance to the fact that we R all encouraged 2 eat and (take things) for our bodies in the most Natural form as possible, is said 2B best?  That's all i was saying..  Now r u Promoting Steroid use in replying there is nothing wrong with taking (asprin) and (testoterone) and (various alchohols) those of which Steroids is made from?  If so, what i mean by Natural is... (grown from Mother Earth)  not man-made in any way is always Best, and i stand by that.  i do respect your Opinion, however, it doesn't mean i have to agree with it? 

_________________________
Ur Opinion is respected.    
Please don't take offense to mine.


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## DOMS (Mar 22, 2005)

You shouldn't go around spreading misinformation either.


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## Duncans Donuts (Mar 22, 2005)

Missfit4all said:
			
		

> Hey Mudge, from what i have viewed on this forum, you are an Honest, Supportive, Positive person around here, and i respect that.
> 
> Having said that, my reply in relating Steroids (as processed) and in relevance to the fact that we R all encouraged 2 eat and (take things) for our bodies in the most Natural form as possible, is said 2B best?  That's all i was saying..  Now r u Promoting Steroid use in replying there is nothing wrong with taking (asprin) and (testoterone) and (various alchohols) those of which Steroids is made from?  If so, what i mean by Natural is... (grown from Mother Earth)  not man-made in any way is always Best, and i stand by that.  i do respect your Opinion, however, it doesn't mean i have to agree with it?



You compared steroids to food.  This is a factual, correlative error.  Your contention that natural foods are better than processed foods is a matter of subjective opinion and, perhaps, biological-value interpretation.  Remember that many natural things, if consumed, can kill you.  Likewise, many things that are synthesized somewhat unnaturally (i.e. human insulin) offer benefits to people like me, who would die without it.  Drawing a line between natural and unnatural as being "good" and "not good" is far too simple.

Steroids used safely and logically offer very serious benefits.  I don't understand what your argument is?


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## Mudge (Mar 22, 2005)

Missfit4all said:
			
		

> Now r u Promoting Steroid use in replying there is nothing wrong with taking (asprin) and (testoterone) and (various alchohols) those of which Steroids is made from?



No, I would not promote taking such things and I never said that there is or isn't anything wrong with taking either. Aspirin is natural, it comes from white willow tree bark - is it good for you? Yes and no, it was recently linked to pancreatic cancer, mmmmmmmm all natural cancer.

Of the 3500 or so species of mushrooms, about 2400 are poisonous, mmmmmmmm all natural liver cirrhosis, mmmmm all "natural" premature death.

Testosterone is natural too, doesn't mean that it should be taken care free nor should anything else. I wouldn't promote anyone to go out and rob a bank, just as I wouldn't promote someone to play doctor on themselves, that is a personal choice which I have no hand in.

I am in no way offended about your opinion(s). If you aren't interested in using something "unnatural" I dont really view it as a huge deal at all. Its a personal choice, and everyones goals are different. My younger brother wouldn't even take creatine, his choice.


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## Missfit4all (Mar 22, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> You compared steroids to food.  This is a factual, correlative error.  Your contention that natural foods are better than processed foods is a matter of subjective opinion and, perhaps, biological-value interpretation.
> 
> Steroids used safely and logically offer very serious benefits.  I don't understand what your argument is?



Dear DD,

My Opinion in comparing Steroids to food (in regards to Processed form) may very well have Not been the best Metaphor to use?  However, i do Bless America for the Freedom to state my Opinion in any way i feel the desire to do so?   It is also my personal belief in believing Natural foods r best for the human body?  I again Bless America for both the Freedom to express my Opinions as well as my Beliefs.

As far as an Argument or a Debate on whether "Steroids" when used safely and logically may promote bennefits to the human body VS A Manufactured Processed Steroid may not...?  ....perhaps when given ample time for study and research to back up my personal believe in that "Natural is Best", would indeed make for a good Steroid debate.  However, i choose not to debate at this time; I would much rather spend my time Getting into shape and Researching the bennefits of Fitness.    

_____________________   
i respect your Opinion.   
Please respect mine.


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## Missfit4all (Mar 22, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> No, I would not promote taking such things and I never said that there is or isn't anything wrong with taking either. Aspirin is natural, it comes from white willow tree bark - is it good for you? Yes and no, it was recently linked to pancreatic cancer, mmmmmmmm all natural cancer.
> 
> I am in no way offended about your opinion(s). If you aren't interested in using something "unnatural" I dont really view it as a huge deal at all. Its a personal choice, and everyones goals are different. My younger brother wouldn't even take creatine, his choice.



Mudge, thanks for clearing up the "promoting" part...or NON-there of, i should say?  Your Respectful and honest approach in stating ur opinions & beliefs without bashing mine is always admired and much appreciated!   

___________________
"It's a personal choice, and everyone's goals are different." -- Mudge
i like ur style!


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## gr81 (Mar 22, 2005)

> drug rehabs, etc all funded by others to fix problems created by individuals (most often by their own decisions).



well some of the points you made were valid, but first of all the money we as a country put into rehab is not NEARLY sufficient, not by a long shot! People thinkn that we can just lock a person up and that is gonna help them with their drug/alcohol addiction and thats just ludicris. Addiction is a genetic disease, not a variable of a person's will power, and the fact that addicts are turned away, let go from inpatient everyday b/c their insurance doesn't cover it is proof positive of my point that if poeple were more educated on the actual effects of drugs (including AAS and other substances) there wouldn't be this mass confusion, speading of ignorance, or this ridiculous witch hunt we are forced to sit through. You can't deny that it all starts with education, and you can't deny as well that the American education system in the large is in shambles. All the rest of this crap is just a symptom if these failures


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## gr81 (Mar 22, 2005)

> It is ridiculous to think that the parents of those 2 kids who committed suicide, SUPPOSEDLY because of depression linked to steroids, placed about 90% of the blame on people other than themselves and their kids. I say kids when I believe they were 18 and 19 years old, these aren't 2nd graders who don't know any better. It's tragic they took their own lives, but there was probably a lot more involved than simply taking steroids. The parents are looking for an excuse or a reason their kids committed suicide, because they don't want to think of themselves as failures. MLB is the failure. The government failed, but not them, and not their children.



well said, and this is completely endemic of our American society, dissassociation or displacement of responsibility for our own lives, and its pathetic. whether its steroids  that kills kids, or grand theft auto, or violent movies in general, or ephedrine and other supplements, or covers of magazines, theres always somewhere else to place blame now isn't there. and theres always a lawyer to pursue these cases. Its exactly this that type of attitude and course of action that is ruining this country. Why are we even listening to these people and not completely dissmissing this crap. I mean its understandable that when you lose someone close, you search for solice and relief, some sort of reason that it happened, but often times there just is none, and thats life. People need to learn to deal. Why should these people in turn get to take our freedoms away. Sometimes in life, people just die or bad shit happens, deal with it.


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## DOMS (Mar 22, 2005)

Missfit4all said:
			
		

> Mudge, thanks for clearing up the "promoting" part...or NON-there of, i should say? Your Respectful and honest approach in stating ur opinions & beliefs without bashing mine is always admired and much appreciated!
> 
> ___________________
> "It's a personal choice, and everyone's goals are different." -- Mudge
> i like ur style!


 
 Holy shit.  It John H.'s sister.


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## Duncans Donuts (Mar 22, 2005)

> However, i do Bless America for the Freedom to state my Opinion in any way i feel the desire to do so? It is also my personal belief in believing Natural foods r best for the human body? I again Bless America for both the Freedom to express my Opinions as well as my Beliefs.



I hate to drag this out, but the freedom to state opinions also make one vulnerable to receive criticism.  Sadly, there are lots of dogmatic beliefs that are taken at face value because we have the "right to an opinion" (the contention that steroids are bad, for example).  However, opinions can be and frequently are WRONG, because of principles - that is, facts, evidence that incontrovertibly refute what is sometimes believed. 

I'm not saying that this is necessarily the case, but it certainly is if you proport that all natural is always better than synthetic.

If all natural foods were great, as Mudge pointed out, all mushrooms would be edible and good for you.  Many can kill you.  This is a flaw in your logic, perhaps because you have oversimplified?  There are also thousands of plant species, like certain berries, that are fatal or will make one violently ill.  

Also, many "unnatural" things, as with the synthetically derived insulin example, can save people's lives if used appropriately.  The same can be true for AAS.  This reality is ignored by people in the media because they confused right and wrong with legal and illegal.  I can assure you that AIDs patients taking steroids to survive might disagree.


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## Missfit4all (Mar 22, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> Holy shit.  It John H.'s sister.



Just another one of your many demeaning nasty remarks, i'm sure?  One thing i know is for sure...i am an Adult and plan 2 act like one.


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## Missfit4all (Mar 22, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> If all natural foods were great, as Mudge pointed out, all mushrooms would be edible and good for you.  Many can kill you.  This is a flaw in your logic, perhaps because you have oversimplified?  There are also thousands of plant species, like certain berries, that are fatal or will make one violently ill.



Dear DD,

Both Mudge and yourself bring up 2 very valid point(s) about the ill effects of some Natural Plants that kill lives, equally mentioning how some Sythetic drugs are made to Save lives.  Point well taken.  You seem 2B a well educated Fit young man who i have no doubt has done your research on the Positives and/or Negatives of Steroids. OK, which leads me to asking...Do you believe others who have lost limbs, skin  breakouts, sterility, and other possible ill-effects from Steriods is simply from Mis-use and and/or abuse of? 

____________________
Your Opinions and Beliefs are respected.


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## DOMS (Mar 22, 2005)

Missfit4all said:
			
		

> Just another one of your many demeaning nasty remarks, i'm sure? One thing i know is for sure...i am an Adult and plan 2 act like one.


 Would it help if I said that was a compliment?

 Or would that make it worse?


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## BiggerNstronger (Mar 22, 2005)

Missfit4all said:
			
		

> did u all hear on the News how more & more teenagers R using Steroids these days?  Apparently there is a Steroid Boom sweeping the Nation among teens?   They even found a high percentage of 5th & 6th graders taking Steroids!
> 
> 
> _____________________
> If i was their Mama there would be a lot of this...  and i'd say, "WTF?"  lol.




I think that a "high percentage" of fifth or sixth graders would be single digits.     Simple fact is, like 'em or not "juice" is expensive and MOST fifth or sixth grade kids dont have the bank account to do roids.     I know several guys who are juicing and several who HAVE juiced in the past and they all say the same thing:  Dont do it, it aint worth it.    I feel sorry for all the people who think they need the juice to be bigger and stronger...if you cant make it happen naturally/legally then MAYBE it just shouldnt happen.


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## brogers (Mar 22, 2005)

Steroids are taking heat off the government and putting on MLB, it's all political BS. I am dissapointed that so many people in the country seem to think it's an "epidemic."


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## DOMS (Mar 22, 2005)




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## Missfit4all (Mar 22, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> Would it help if I said that was a compliment?



here's what i think of your compliment...  now who's laughing????   

As far as Broggers and Bigger N Stronger go, read my words....*"I have nothing against Steroid use.  i do believe it is a shame however, if the MEDIA is accurate, in that our TEENS R using Steroids." (big fat period.) *


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## BiggerNstronger (Mar 22, 2005)

Missfit4all said:
			
		

> As far as Broggers and Bigger N Stronger go, read my words....*"I have nothing against Steroid use.  i do believe it is a shame however, if the MEDIA is accurate, in that our TEENS R using Steroids." (big fat period.) *




Read my words:   I think with all of the posts you have had to put up in "defense" of what you said earlier you have become a bit too defensive...I actually was agreeing with you but pointing out that 5/6th grade kids probably arent the prob.   Teens?  For sure.    You have nothing against steroid use....great.


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## myCATpowerlifts (Mar 22, 2005)

Flex said:
			
		

> That boxer brought that shit on himself, and You are an idiot.
> 
> ya, it's REALLY MLB's fault. Barry Bonds went to a dealer, bought steroids, and injected them into kids all over the nation. Get a fuckin' clue. You wanna know why those guys refused to talk about thier use? So they don't get castrated by assholes like you who think steroids made their careers and ruined the lives of kids.




Chill out, it's just a discussion, I know you're defending it because it's what got you to where you are, but there's no reason to get so angry over
a non-users opinion...


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## gr81 (Mar 23, 2005)

> I know you're defending it because it's what got you to where you are, but there's no reason to get so angry over
> a non-users opinion...



you can take that thumbs up and stick it straight up your candy ass son. Steroids have very little to do with my man's success, its a little something called intensity and dedication, and make no mistake about it, a wise-crackin know-it-all little bitch like yourself ain't never gonna be touching the weights that Flex is throwing around at his young age, steroids or not.. if you don't have anything positive to contribute then you have no reason or right to comment on the passion others have for the subject, so why don't you know your role and shut your mouth!


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## Flex (Mar 23, 2005)

myCATpowerlifts said:
			
		

> Chill out, it's just a discussion, I know you're defending it because it's what got you to where you are, but there's no reason to get so angry over
> a non-users opinion...



Defending it b/c it got me to where i am? 
Listen, bitch, leave these discussions for the adults. 

who let little Timmy out of his playroom?


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## bullred (Mar 23, 2005)

man this is better than day time soap. Its to bad that people cant talk about something and not put each other down.


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## SlimShady (Mar 23, 2005)

bullred said:
			
		

> man this is better than day time soap. Its to bad that people cant talk about something and not put each other down.


 I agree. I sometimes wonder if some of these guys are still in the 9th grade.


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## DOMS (Mar 23, 2005)

bullred said:
			
		

> man this is better than day time soap. Its to bad that people cant talk about something and not put each other down.


 I used to think so too.  As a matter of fact I told PreMier that he was overly harsh to another poster who asked a question.

 Now I know better.

 After a few hundred times of reading some moron spout off about something that has no basis in fact or about something that simple search of the forums could have answered, you get tired of it.


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## Mudge (Mar 23, 2005)

Missfit4all said:
			
		

> OK, which leads me to asking...Do you believe others who have lost limbs, skin  breakouts, sterility, and other possible ill-effects from Steriods is simply from Mis-use and and/or abuse of?
> 
> ____________________
> Your Opinions and Beliefs are respected.



Skin breakouts (Acne) are a natural side effect of puberty, and being hormonally supercharged is like going through puberty all over again.

Losing a limb from infection because you dont get it checked out, was just plain stupidity. He could have easily lost it from heroin if he did heroin and got an infection, it wasn't steroids that did it. It was his carelessness.

Sterility? Sorry but thats hogwash. In the short term, some people can lack the ability to impregnate someone if they allow testicular atrophy to occur markedly which is avoidable.


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## Flex (Mar 23, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> After a few hundred times of reading some moron spout off about something that has no basis in fact or about something that simple search of the forums could have answered, you get tired of it.



 

or a few 1,000x's


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## DOMS (Mar 23, 2005)

Flex said:
			
		

> or a few 1,000x's


  It only took me 500 posts.

  I blame PreMier.


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