# i think im convinced i cant gain size



## nova1970sb (Feb 24, 2010)

well hell, everyone here has been really kind and helpful suggesting new things for me such as diet tips, and work out plans. but i am convinced that i just cant gain weight. when i started working out i weighed right around 170 pounds. i have been goin at it for about 4 months or so now, my lifts have gained quite a bit, for instance my bench press when i started was a weak 95 pounds and now im slightly over 200 pounds, same story with incline. and i am squating close to 250 pounds. but this morning when i got on the scale.....167.4!

i am eating alot more in my day and even when i wake up at night.
i am getting, according to fitday 2491 callories a day, 97.6 grams of fat, 184.4 grams of carbs, and 221.3 grams of protien.

do any supplements out there really work? i will not do steroids, i enjoy my liver.


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## tucker01 (Feb 24, 2010)

up your calories 2500 is not a lot of calories.


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## DaMayor (Feb 24, 2010)

Don't get discouraged just yet. Like Ian said, just up your intake...and be thankful that you have the metabolism you have. Strength gains are good, that's progress..focus on that....and EAT.


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## nova1970sb (Feb 24, 2010)

is there a drink i can do that will give me more callories, i feel like i eat till im about to puke now.


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## CowPimp (Feb 24, 2010)

Eat more.  It's really not that complicated.  Everyone that has trouble gaining weight says they "eat a ton," or some such similar statement.  Well, if you increased your intake by 10%, would you gain weight?  Probably slowly but surely.  What about another 10%?  How about another 10%?  You get the picture?  Eventually, you WILL gain weight.  You can't just eat unlimited numbers of calories and see no change.

If you're worried about gaining fat you can increase in 10% increments and monitor weight change.  If you don't mind gaining some, just eat a shit ton of food and get those calories up.

I've eaten in excess of 5000 calories per day in order to gain weight in the past.  Right now, I guarantee you I would lose weight if I consumed less than 3500 calories per day.  If I ate 2500 calories a day I'd be losing multiple pounds per week and starving my ass off.


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## CowPimp (Feb 24, 2010)

nova1970sb said:


> is there a drink i can do that will give me more callories, i feel like i eat till im about to puke now.



If consuming liquid calories helps you get in what you need then go for it.  I usually have a shake or so each day myself, though it's really for more of the convenience factor.  Either way, you have to figure out a way; there is no way around it.

You can also try gradually increasing calories like I said.  Add 100 calories a week each day until you start to see some noticeable weight gains.  You will adapt to it.  I used to have to force feed myself.  It's not pleasant, but hey, it's what it takes with some people depending on how their body regulates appetite.


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## Will Brink (Feb 24, 2010)

nova1970sb said:


> well hell, everyone here has been really kind and helpful suggesting new things for me such as diet tips, and work out plans. but* i am convinced *that i just cant gain weight.



Then it's probably true...


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## DaMayor (Feb 24, 2010)

WillBrink said:


> Then it's probably true...



Encouraging words, lol.

Hey Nova...*what are you eating*? Not how much....What kinds of food? Sometimes it isn't about quantity, it's about caloric density.


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## Spaullba (Feb 24, 2010)

Really...  you claim you cannot gain weight and you are barely eating anything.  Up your calories to AT LEAST 3500...  I am eating 4200+ a day right now, and was eating closer to 5000 and i went from 170 to 195 in under 4 months.


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## Will Brink (Feb 24, 2010)

DaMayor said:


> Encouraging words, lol.



OK, I'm, jaded. So sue me.


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## CowPimp (Feb 24, 2010)

DaMayor said:


> Encouraging words, lol.
> 
> Hey Nova...*what are you eating*? Not how much....What kinds of food? Sometimes it isn't about quantity, it's about caloric density.



I think in this case, it's purely the amount.  2500 calories is enough to feed a sedentary lard ass, not an active individual looking to gain muscle.


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## DaMayor (Feb 24, 2010)

CowPimp said:


> I think in this case, it's purely the amount.  2500 calories is enough to feed a sedentary lard ass, not an active individual looking to gain muscle.



The amount of food and the amount of calories are two different things. I gathered from what he said that he felt as if he were stuffing himself, or having to eat too often. This could be remedied to a degree by adjusting the *type* of foods. 
Either way, I think it would be helpful if nova gave us an idea of what he's been eating.


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## DaMayor (Feb 24, 2010)

willbrink said:


> ok, i'm, jaded. So sue me.



smilies aren't working....


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## nova1970sb (Feb 24, 2010)

ive been wanted to bulk up, and i am really in to making things easy. and i do not get that much enjoyment out of food anyway so i eat the same thing everyday, like clockwork.

day starts out 
5 eggs (3 whites, 2 whole)
protien shake w/milk

peanut butter and jelly sandwich (whole wheat bread, low fat pb, sugar free jelly)

.5 lb of either turkey or roast beef lunch meat and 2 large handfuls of raw veggies (cauliflower broccoli and carrots)

another pbj

whole can of albacore tuna

chicken breast spaghetti with whole wheat noodles and red sauce, and more veggies. (sometimes when i want to spoil myself i have a seared steak, and a large baked potato but that is rare)

protien shake with milk


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## nova1970sb (Feb 24, 2010)

edit i did not add my protien shakes to fit day when i got the callories and all that.

so add 400 callories 8g fat 8g carb and 72g protien


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## tucker01 (Feb 24, 2010)

not sure where u get 96g of fat with those????

why low fat pb?


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## nova1970sb (Feb 24, 2010)

IainDaniel said:


> not sure where u get 96g of fat with those????
> 
> why low fat pb?



i just figured it would be better for me. i put it all into fit day and thats what i got


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## VILBAUGH (Feb 24, 2010)

You need fats, fats are more important that carbs. I was stuck at 205 for the longest time, I changed one thing, "the greatest discovery of 2009" I call it, thanks to Built. OLIVE OIL SHOTS. drink that shit down! I put on 20 lbs in a matter of months. 2-4oz a day. you would be suprized how easy and healthy it is.

go with extra virgin, light tasting, choose a bottle that has a nice green color to it.

4 oz olive oil = 1000 good calories.


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## Built (Feb 24, 2010)

Here's your solution:


Whole eggs. No more "just egg whites"
Full-fat natural peanut butter. The monounsaturated fat will help your boys turn cholesterol into testosterone and the fat will help you grow. 
White rice and white flour - no more whole grains. They're too filling.
Red meat - I eat it daily and so should you. Cheaper cuts are fine, the more fat the better. 
Olive oil - knock back a tablespoon before each of your shakes and you'll get some good, healthy, testosterone-building fat with a nice healthy boost of calories every time
Butter your veggies - steamed broccoli or cauliflower slathered in natural butter is lovely - and healthy; the fat helps you get more nutrients out of veggies and broccoli helps clear estrogen out of your body.


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## VILBAUGH (Feb 24, 2010)

Built said:


> Here's your solution:
> 
> 
> Whole eggs. No more "just egg whites"
> ...



4 oz too much? lol


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## nova1970sb (Feb 24, 2010)

Built said:


> Here's your solution:
> 
> 
> Whole eggs. No more "just egg whites"
> ...




so dont eat whole wheat bread or whole wheat noodles? that goes against just about all that i have heard. but i am willing to give anything a shot! thanks for the info.


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## DaMayor (Feb 24, 2010)

nova1970sb said:


> so dont eat whole wheat bread or whole wheat noodles? that goes against just about all that i have heard. but i am willing to give anything a shot! thanks for the info.



Dude, you're trying to GAIN. You'll have plenty of time to re-vamp your diet in the long run. In fact, I'll throw you an impromtu bone....

*From DaMayor to the Hardgainer...*

*Ingredients*
1 stick butter
1 Pint Heavy Cream or ½ & ½
corn starch
penne rigate, rotini???doesn???t matter, just a substantial tubular pasta
peppers
onions
GARLIC
Dried mustard
White cheese???grated havarti, mozzarella, jack, whatever.
Boneless, skinless Salmon fillets???fresh or IQF, whatever???chum will do.
(Just NOT the canned junk! You???re going to cube these bad boys.)

*For the bastardized Béchamel sauce*

Over medium flame (or heat) warm butter in a medium saucepan until melted, gradually whisk in cream. As this reaches the boil throw in a hand full of grated cheese. On the side, mix about ½ cup corn starch with luke warm water..just enugh to dissolve. Once blended, while whisking back and forth, pour a thin ribbon into the sauce. Continue whisking until the sauce begins to thicken. (keep some cream near by in the case that the sauce thickens too quickly). If this happens, whisk in more cream. Add a pinch or two of dried mustard and as much garlic as you prefer. Salt and pepper to taste as well. 
When the sauce is nice and thick, (thicker than alfredo but thinner than sheetrock mud) turn heat to *low* while you prep the other ingredients.

*The Other Stuff*

Par-cook the pasta. If the time on the box says cook for 11 minutes, cook it for 7 minutes. You want it to be al dente???drain, toss in a little EVOO, and hold. 

Slice the salmon fillets into ¾ to 1??? cubes.

Slice the onions and peppers into fine ribbons.

In a large bowl, container, whatever, combine the pasta, the veggies and the salmon. Pour the béchamel over these ingredients and fold until well coated???.add more cheese if you like. Fold the mixture into a casserole dish, pan, or whatever you have on hand that is oven friendly. Top with cheese generously, and bake @ 350 degrees for about 30-45 minutes.​
Don't ask me what the dietary info is like....It will make you GAIN..trust me.


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## CowPimp (Feb 24, 2010)

DaMayor said:


> The amount of food and the amount of calories are two different things. I gathered from what he said that he felt as if he were stuffing himself, or having to eat too often. This could be remedied to a degree by adjusting the *type* of foods.
> Either way, I think it would be helpful if nova gave us an idea of what he's been eating.



Ah, I see what you're getting at.  Eat more calorie dense foods so he doesn't feel like he has to force feed himself.  I agree!

Peanut butter is my favorite calorie pumping machine.  I could easily eat a jar a day, though I refrain from that, haha.


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## DaMayor (Feb 24, 2010)

CowPimp said:


> Ah, I see what you're getting at.  Eat more calorie dense foods so he doesn't feel like he has to force feed himself.  I agree!
> 
> Peanut butter is my favorite calorie pumping machine.  I could easily eat a jar a day, though I refrain from that, haha.



Exactly. 

Peanut butter....Man, I really REALLY like peanut butter..if nothing else, lol.


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## Built (Feb 24, 2010)

nova1970sb said:


> so dont eat whole wheat bread or whole wheat noodles? that goes against just about all that i have heard. but i am willing to give anything a shot! thanks for the info.



In general, men feel "fuller" on higher-volume food, while women in general feel fuller on higher-fat food. Personally, I cut on high-fat food because it's more satiating, but this is often NOT the case for men, who need the feeling of "volumetric fullness" to feel fed. 

Now SOME women feel fuller on this type of diet, too - and some men find a higher-fat diet more satiating. I'm speaking very generally here. But this is often true - and often maddening when a skinny guy who "can't gain" eats exactly the same way as his girlfriend who "can't lose": she's hungry on the lower-fat diet and overeats, while he's too full on the higher-volume of food that comes along for the ride on a low-fat diet. 

As an aside, fatter people often find a higher-fat diet more satiating - hence the frequent success of the Atkins diet among the obese. (On Atkins, you get 65-80% of calories from fat and less than 10% of calories from carbohydrate - and this was the only diet I could tolerate when I was dieting down from my own former obesity)

Back to you - the whole-wheat stuff isn't that much more nutritious than white, and you may find it too filling to get in all that fibre. Currently, you're eating a high-volume, low-calorie diet that fills you up and prevents you from overeating. 

There is no way you can gain unless you find a way to get in more calories than you require - and this means calorie-dense food that won't fill you as much.


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## fufu (Feb 24, 2010)

Everyone has offered a lot of good info.

As most others have said, you need to eat more - plain and simple. 

2500 calories/day is not a lot for a male who weight trains regularly. I eat 3k to maintain and 3500-4500 to put on mass depending on how long I stay at a hyper-caloric level. I have even been up to 5k for extended periods of time (multiple months).

If your goal is to put on size you have to treat your eating behavior as you do your training. For "hard-gainers", eating needs to be programmed, progressive and consistent. Those three principles apply to anyone, but especially for people who find it hard to put on weight.

*Programmed* meaning you have a set idea of what you are eating. You know what you are going to do and there is little guess room. 
*
Progressive* meaning the more weight you put on, the more you will have to eat to continue putting it on. This is because you will expend more calories per day to maintain the lean mass that is added to your body

*Consistent* meaning you have to do this nearly everyday. Consistency is the hardest part for many.


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## T_man (Feb 24, 2010)

I have fast food everyday nearly just to bump up the cals. I cook with extra servings of EVOO, put 2 capfuls in my protein shakes which i take every morning or sometimes before bed for the daily creatine.


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## nova1970sb (Feb 24, 2010)

i went and got some olive oil today, man that was a nasty shot, but i will do it. twice a day. hopefully that will start to help. 

so new question i am eating about 2900 callories a day after my protien shakes and adding the 2 ounces of olive oil, so that makes 3380 callories, do you think i will see size gains on that over what i have been? or do i need to eat the 5k callories people here are talking about, cause i cant afford that!


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## Spaullba (Feb 24, 2010)

Add in two tablespoons of peanut butter a day and you should be set for a bit. Its cheap and easy. Just eat a spoonful upon waking and before sleeping.  It really depends on how fast you want to gain, jump up to 4500-5000 calories and you could gain almost 5 lbs a week, or you could stay around 3500-3800 and gain slower..


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## Hoglander (Feb 24, 2010)

OK, here we go again.

Eat what you like. Forget about all the suggestions about what YOU should eat, IMHO.

I battled a hell others can not imagine. I was undiagnosed with Graves for a DECADE. 

Now it is under control. I still need 4000 cal a day to maintain an intense metabolize and a steady weight. To gain weight I down large amounts of food others here would never touch. I like dark beers and cheese cake. 

:  )


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## Built (Feb 24, 2010)

nova1970sb said:


> i went and got some olive oil today, man that was a nasty shot, but i will do it. twice a day. hopefully that will start to help.
> 
> so new question i am eating about 2900 callories a day after my protien shakes and adding the 2 ounces of olive oil, so that makes 3380 callories, do you think i will see size gains on that over what i have been? or do i need to eat the 5k callories people here are talking about, cause i cant afford that!



You just went from 2500 calories a day to 3500 calories a day. You'll gain. 

When you stop gaining, crank it up to 4000. 

Etc.



Spaullba said:


> Add in two tablespoons of peanut butter a day and you should be set for a bit. Its cheap and easy. Just eat a spoonful upon waking and before sleeping.  It really depends on how fast you want to gain, jump up to 4500-5000 calories and you could gain almost 5 lbs a week, or you could stay around 3500-3800 and gain slower..



Yep, peanut butter is a hardgainer's friend, no doubt about that. Now, going from 2500 calories a day to 5000 calories a day may be a bit much at first - let's see what happens to our friend on 3500 for now. My money is on him making some nice gains. If not, he can always ease it up to 4000. 



Hoglander said:


> OK, here we go again.
> 
> Eat what you like. Forget about all the suggestions about what YOU should eat, IMHO.
> 
> ...



Although most of you know me as a chronic dieter, I was a very skinny kid and I hated it - I remember forcing food down to the point of pain each and every time I ate trying to gain weight. 

It didn't work - because I wasn't consistent. 

To the OP, you can mix the olive oil into your shake if you prefer - you won't even taste it. You can also make your shakes with whipping cream and ice cream - full fat ice cream of course - there's no reason your food shouldn't taste delicious.


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## Phineas (Feb 24, 2010)

Also, there are the little things for adding calories you don't think about...

-salad dressing (olive oil kind)
-pumpkin/sunflower seeds (in your salad)
-mayonnaise (oooo baby)
-margarine/butter
-avocado (salad, on chicken, in sandwiches, etc)
-cheese (sandwich, pasta, omlettes)

Foods like these we generally eat in smaller portions but they pack quite a few calories. However, they all have a lot more to offer, too.


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## Merkaba (Feb 24, 2010)

I agree that 2500 is not alot.  I can probably cut with that amount.  But I'm 255.  And yea, get the fats in.


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## nova1970sb (Feb 24, 2010)

i know i say it every time i start a thread, but thank you guys so much for your help. i will keep you all posted!

and merkaba, in a totally non gay way, you look amazing. do you mind me asking what your diet consist of?


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## Built (Feb 24, 2010)

Doesn't merkaba look awesome? 

<beams>


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## nova1970sb (Feb 24, 2010)

i thought i would post the changes my body has seen. i have grown muscle that is apparent, but maybe my weight really hasnt changed cause im changing muscle with fat? maybe from now on i will start seeing more gains in weight since my fat is down?

the first picture is the first night i started working out 4 months ago, the next few are from tonight.


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## nova1970sb (Feb 24, 2010)

by the way i am just to lazy to take down the wall paper and butterfly picture, it is a temporary room for me. lol


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## pitman (Feb 24, 2010)

nova1970sb said:


> by the way i am just to lazy to take down the wall paper and butterfly picture, it is a temporary room for me. lol


who the fuck is this roids 1 after doing a year on crack and guys ass's? this isn't a gay boys sight..this is for adult men ..ironmagazine.com..not wish i could lift ironmagazine.com.. got muscles...quit playing...captain fish licks with these funny pictures..lol


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## nova1970sb (Feb 24, 2010)

pitman said:


> who the fuck is this roids 1 after doing a year on crack and guys ass's? this isn't a gay boys sight..this is for adult men ..ironmagazine.com..not wish i could lift ironmagazine.com.. got muscles...quit playing...captain fish licks with these funny pictures..lol




sorry if i offended you, i was just posting pictures to hopefully get answers. body types are different and people here seem to be quite helpful with suggestions. however,  the main reason i posted them was to see if i really need to eat all the more fatty foods, since i do have a good amount of fat still on me.


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## pitman (Feb 24, 2010)

nova1970sb said:


> sorry if i offended you, i was just posting pictures to hopefully get answers. body types are different and people here seem to be quite helpful with suggestions. however, the main reason i posted them was to see if i really need to eat all the more fatty foods, since i do have a good amount of fat still on me.


 i was just fuckin with you don't take it personal..your change is remarkable serious just hit them weights hard do the extra reps to add sum cardio.. but a huge diff...drive that nova now that small block chevy will move you now like a big block...!!!!


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## nova1970sb (Feb 24, 2010)

pitman said:


> i was just fuckin with you don't take it personal..your change is remarkable serious just hit them weights hard do the extra reps to add sum cardio.. but a huge diff...drive that nova now that small block chevy will move you now like a big block...!!!!




ohh ok, thats a relief. the small block i just built will eat up most big blocks!


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## pitman (Feb 24, 2010)

nova1970sb said:


> ohh ok, thats a relieg. the small block i just built will eat up most big blocks!


 awww , i wasnt saying all that stock big block with a 3500 stall look out bro !!!!


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## nova1970sb (Feb 24, 2010)

you must have something big block powered?


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## Hoglander (Feb 24, 2010)

I admit I was wrong. I thought you were lean and had been at it longer. Think "intensity" and time. 

You cried wolf. You need to get your head in the game before you cry again, IMO.


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## nova1970sb (Feb 24, 2010)

Hoglander said:


> I admit I was wrong. I thought you were lean and had been at it longer. Think "intensity" and time.
> 
> You cried wolf. You need to get your head in the game before you cry again, IMO.




i wouldnt call 167 pounds quite lean. maybe 150 and less. so you do not think that these gains are minimal? just asking because they seem minimal to me for all the work i have been doing, and the time span. then again, i do not know how long it takes to develop larger muscles.


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## jmorrison (Feb 24, 2010)

You are quite a bit leaner than before.  You are not gaining weight because you are essentially cutting.  Nothing wrong with that.  I think the best advice I ever got here was to cut until 10% then bulk to 15% and repeat.  I only made it to 12% on my first cut, but it gets easier.

This is just my opinion, but it appears that you are still somewhere around 20% BF.  I would continue cutting for a little while until your abs are visible at least, THEN bulk.  Summer is coming, and lower BF will make you look bigger and more fit anyway.

Good luck.  Dont be discouraged, you have improved your composition remarkably.  Just keep it up and stay dedicated.


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## nova1970sb (Feb 24, 2010)

so if i should continue cutting should i put cardio back into my routine, i took it out 2 weeks ago


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## jmorrison (Feb 24, 2010)

This is all subjective and relative to what I would do, so I can only answer this as of what I would do in your shoes.  So that said, if it were me:

1. Cut to sub 15% before considering a bulk

2. Cardio would be fine, but I would stick with HIIT.  May assist in keeping some muscle instead of running it off

3. 1.5g of protein per lb of lean body mass to help prevent muscle loss

4. Heavy resistance training to help prevent muscle loss.

Remember, cardio doesn't make you thin.  Cardio really isnt a very good way to control calories.  It is so much easier to control cals through diet.  Cardio is not a bad thing at all, and in my opinion should be a part of everyones fitness routine, but only for cardio-vascular health and overall fitness, NOT for fat loss.

Built has some excellent articles on HIIT training on her site that could get you started on it.  It worked really well for me. 

Good luck.


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## quark (Feb 25, 2010)

nova1970sb said:


> i went and got some olive oil today, man that was a nasty shot, but i will do it. twice a day. hopefully that will start to help.



You can add olive oil right to your shakes... you barley taste it. Try it once and see what you think!


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## nova1970sb (Feb 25, 2010)

jchappj said:


> You can add olive oil right to your shakes... you barley taste it. Try it once and see what you think!




 i did that this morning and last night, much better than the shot!


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## ectomorph141 (Feb 25, 2010)

The pics show quite a bit of positive progress in 4 months.   Chest, arms, shoulders, and back have very nice improvement. Your bodyfat % is also lower. Cant see the legs so not sure how those are doing.   I would suggest getting one of the tanita scales that show your bodyfat %.  They are only around $30.00 from just about any local store. Plus make sure you are doing squats and dips.  Those help to build mass very quick. 

Also dont be afraid to mix your diet up a little bit.  You said you are eating the same thing every day.  Thats no fun at all.  Substitute different types of food to keep the routine fun.  Some chicken here, steak there, fish here, pork there.  Mix it up.  You have already bumped from 2,500 calories to 3,500 calories. So give that a week or 2 and you should see some gains. If not bump it to 4,000 like *Built *suggested.


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## Merkaba (Feb 25, 2010)

Good job on the pics!  And nothing wrong with a few flowers and butterflies.  

Well those pics are from basically almost two years ago.  Built was helping me then as well.  I was doing PMSF at the time, in an emergency fashion to prep for my first show.  Right now I'm almost doing it at this point.  I'm doing 100g or so of carbs a day.  I'm a little water logged and holding too much crap.  I've been eating alot of chicken and veggies lately.  Just trying to keep the protein up and carbs low.  These are my two weaknesses.  I'm not eating anything special.  The shit we talk about on here every day.


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## Archangel. (Feb 28, 2010)

nova1970sb said:


> well hell, everyone here has been really kind and helpful suggesting new things for me such as diet tips, and work out plans. but i am convinced that i just cant gain weight. when i started working out i weighed right around 170 pounds. i have been goin at it for about 4 months or so now, my lifts have gained quite a bit, for instance my bench press when i started was a weak 95 pounds and now im slightly over 200 pounds, same story with incline. and i am squating close to 250 pounds. but this morning when i got on the scale.....167.4!
> 
> i am eating alot more in my day and even when i wake up at night.
> i am getting, according to fitday 2491 callories a day, 97.6 grams of fat, 184.4 grams of carbs, and 221.3 grams of protien.
> ...



It all comes down to calories in vs calories out.


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## T_man (Feb 28, 2010)

Wow you're really seeing some results. Nothing to complain about there at all!


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## Saney (Feb 28, 2010)

I think I would look totally Jacked if I stood next to Nova...


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## nova1970sb (Mar 1, 2010)

gains already from upping food intake? i got on the scale this morning and weighed 171lbs! up 4 pounds!


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## JayCutler (Mar 1, 2010)

nova1970sb said:


> well hell, everyone here has been really kind and helpful suggesting new things for me such as diet tips, and work out plans. but i am convinced that i just cant gain weight. when i started working out i weighed right around 170 pounds. i have been goin at it for about 4 months or so now, my lifts have gained quite a bit, for instance my bench press when i started was a weak 95 pounds and now im slightly over 200 pounds, same story with incline. and i am squating close to 250 pounds. but this morning when i got on the scale.....167.4!
> 
> i am eating alot more in my day and even when i wake up at night.
> i am getting, according to fitday 2491 callories a day, 97.6 grams of fat, 184.4 grams of carbs, and 221.3 grams of protien.
> ...


 

sounds like you are making a lot of beginner mistakes.

2500 cals is what i use to cut.  you arae not getting enough food.

stick to compound weights and whole food.  you could be a hardgainer.  i think this article is good for you:

Hardgainers: 8 Reasons Why You Aren't Gaining Weight | BulkHogan.com

that should clear up a lot of what you are asking imo.


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