# Hitting Ketosis whilst carb cycling



## JoeyH (Aug 31, 2011)

Hi,

Is it neccessary to hit Ketosis whilst carb cycling to lose fat? 

I'm currently carb cycling (increasing carbs on traing days and reducing carbs on non training days) but not hitting ketosis (as confirmed with ketostix) and my weight/fat loss has stalled after 3 weeks?

Any suggestions as to why i'm not dropping bf?

Below is my calorie intake (current weight of 160lbs and a lbm of ~124lbs which was determined using .90 x ideal bw.)

Average daily macros: 
205g of protein,
65g of fat, and
147g of carbohydrate,
2,000 calories in total.

(4) Lifting/HIIT days: 
205g of protein,
57g of fat, and
205g of carbohydrate,
2,150 calories in total.

(3) Rest/SS Cardio days:
206g of protein,
77g of fat, and
70g of carbohydrate,
1,800 calories in total.

Also, are CKD and carb cycling terms interchangeable? From what i understand a CKD is one way to carb cycle?

Thanks in advance.


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## sassy69 (Aug 31, 2011)

Your posted hi / med / low meal plans look fine for your body weight for a carb cycle. 

Carb cycle and keto are different primarily because the purpose of keto is to get into ketosis, whereas carb cycling isn't intending to switch your energy source over to ketones. It is intended to use carbs as the energy source, but to vary the amount based on specific rules - could be like you have - specific to your training schedule (e.g. hi carb when you can use them on heavy days, low carb on cardio / no lifting days when you don't need them to fuel anything). Or you can follow a strict sequence (e.g. hi-med-low-repeat) regardless of your training. You can keep a constant total cals/day but vary the macros (i.e replace the dropped carb cals w/ equivalent fat cals) or make it also a calorie cycle like you are doing. Lots of different ways to vary a carb cycle - but it is still intended to keep you on this side of ketosis.

Why your program is stalling? What did you start at and what has been the week to week drop in bodyfat or weight? Did you stall cold this past week? Generally "progress" isn't going to be linearly constant over time -sometimes it goes in spurts. I'd just keep to your schedule and dont' get hung up on things. This looks like it should produce results. If you stall more than a week - you can try some simple changes like a scheduled cheat meal one day - like blow out your high carb day, or throw in some extra cardio (e.g. 20 min every day), etc.

 I would also look at how you FEEL on this diet - tired? hungry? anything that would indicate you're coming up short somewhere in this diet?


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## JoeyH (Aug 31, 2011)

sassy69 said:


> Your posted hi / med / low meal plans look fine for your body weight for a carb cycle.
> 
> Carb cycle and keto are different primarily because the purpose of keto is to get into ketosis, whereas carb cycling isn't intending to switch your energy source over to ketones. It is intended to use carbs as the energy source, but to vary the amount based on specific rules - could be like you have - specific to your training schedule (e.g. hi carb when you can use them on heavy days, low carb on cardio / no lifting days when you don't need them to fuel anything). Or you can follow a strict sequence (e.g. hi-med-low-repeat) regardless of your training. You can keep a constant total cals/day but vary the macros (i.e replace the dropped carb cals w/ equivalent fat cals) or make it also a calorie cycle like you are doing. Lots of different ways to vary a carb cycle - but it is still intended to keep you on this side of ketosis.
> 
> ...



1. Thanks for the explanation. When you say 'this side'  do you mean not in ketosis?

2. I'm assuming im stalling as the numbers on the scales arent changing. I'm into my fourth week and ive been at ~160 lbs for the last week and and a half. I started at ~167lbs. First two weeks were great but I put that to water weight loss. Im doing cardio (hills and HIIT) 3-4 times a week x20mins a session after lifting (Built's baby got back routine).

A little scared of 'cheat' meals as I'm worried about taking a step backwards. I'm pretty much eating the exact same food every day (within daily calorie limit). My diet is also pretty clean. I can post if need be.

Funny thing is my waist line has defiitely shrunk ~1.5 inches?

3. I feel fine on the diet, albiet a little hungry some times but i've always had a big appetite.


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## Merkaba (Sep 1, 2011)

...No youre not going to be showing ketones with that much carb intake...and even lower ketostix only shows excess keytones so you could be in ketosis to some degree and not darken the strip much.  Ok, yea, just carb cycling you look good from what I can see just see what happens over the next few days.  Don't forget your lean body mass changes during this time, you may need to adjust your intake to match your NEW lbm, etc.


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## sassy69 (Sep 2, 2011)

JoeyH said:


> 1. Thanks for the explanation. When you say 'this side'  do you mean not in ketosis?
> 
> 2. I'm assuming im stalling as the numbers on the scales arent changing. I'm into my fourth week and ive been at ~160 lbs for the last week and and a half. I started at ~167lbs. First two weeks were great but I put that to water weight loss. Im doing cardio (hills and HIIT) 3-4 times a week x20mins a session after lifting (Built's baby got back routine).
> 
> ...



1. Yes you're not going to go into ketosis. Ketostix aren't going to be a discrete indicator of being in ketosis - but it takes more than a couple of days and your intention on a carb cycle is NOT to go into ketosis, so its really not even part of the discussion.

2. So you're weight isn't changing but your measurements are. So this is telling you that the scale is only one part of the equation. The scale is only going to tell you the sum total of your bones, your lean muscle mass, your bodyfat and water weight. Its not really telling you anything about the amount of muscle or fat, specifically that is changing. Since lean muscle mass is more dense than bodyfat - this means it weighs more, but takes up less room than bodyfat. So it actually makes sense that you're not 'losing weight' but seeing that you are smaller in your measurements - in those places where you're dropping bodyfat and gaining it in the areas of muscle.  

3. Cheat meals - don't be scared of them. Stalling out is your body's way of saying it has adapted to the diet you are currently feeding it with. "More food" is a refeed to your system, and may introduce a transient bump in your weight -but again - it is most likely water weight and is not a bad thing. You're never going to be a static state of existence - if you get a moment where you're totally happy w/ where you  are at, its not like you can freeze it and stay there. Things are always changing. You should judge things more in terms of the general trend and not the absolutes of a snapshot in time.

I don't think you need to change anything except maybe just throw out your scale if you're going to freak out over no change in weight. There are too many things that contribute to that overall number to be able to panic about any of it.  Pay more attention to how things are fitting at this point.


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