# How to properly and safely use insulin w/ cycle and/or hgh



## BigRed73 (Sep 11, 2010)

PLEASE MAKE STICKY SINCE PEOPLE ALWAYS ASK SHOULD I USE OR HOW DO I USE OR HOW MUCH TO TAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



*Insulin*

*Insulin is one of the most powerful anabolic agents in the world. Used properly, it can add weight to you more quickly than any other compound at our disposal. *

*Used improperly, insulin will kill you!!!!!!!!*

Before I delve too deeply into explaining this compound, I feel that it´s important to stress that last part: Screw up with this stuff, and you die. You will go into a coma, and die. And I´m talking about simply taking too much of this stuff once.

Ok?

This drug needs to be treated with caution. If you aren´t willing to read as much as possible on insulin before using it, then you aren´t ready to use it at all. 

So first, let´s talk about the insulin that´s floating around in your body right now, and what it does; then we´ll talk about how adding exogenous insulin (insulin from outside your body) could possibly help you.

Insulin is a protein secreted by the pancreas which acts on the liver to stimulate the formation of glycogen from glucose and to inhibit the conversion of non-carbohydrates into glucose. Insulin also promotes facilitated diffusion of glucose through cells with insulin receptors, and of course this means muscle tissue (1). As you may expect, very high concentrations of insulin have been soundly result in markedly stimulated muscle protein synthesis (2)(3)(4)(9). It does this mainly at the translational level by enhancing peptide chain initiation (11). This property and it´s consequent results are probably the things which makes it most interesting to bodybuilders and athletes. This is because those factors combine to make ingested protein more efficient by promoting the transport of amino acids into muscle cells. Ergo, we can clearly say that insulin is undoubtedly anabolic in muscle tissue. It also has an anabolic effect in bone, and thereby increases bone density as well (8). Another mechanism by which insulin is anabolic is via increasing your body´s IGF (Insulin-like Growth Factor) levels (6). IGF is an extremely anabolic hormone. 
Another unexpected aspect of insulin use is its ability to increase both LH (Leutenizing Hormone) and FSH (Follicle Stimulating Hormone), both of which in turn stimulate testosterone production. What I´m getting at here is that insulin stimulates gonadotropin secretion, meaning that it´s use may actually provide an anabolic effect through increasing your HPTA´s ability to stimulate the production of testosterone (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular-Axis)(11) This effect is often manifested as virilization (development of male sexual characteristics) in women. Insulin also increases the binding ability of anabolic steroids to the androgen receptors (14),which would clearly suggest strongly the possibility of a synergistic effect of insulin when combined with steroids. Most people also think that insulin has some anabolic synergy when combined with growth hormone, and certainly there is a lot of anecdotal evidence for this as well. In addition to anecdotal research, it´s important to note that Insulin is actually so anabolic that some researchers have speculated that Growth Hormone´s (GH) ability to stimulate Protein Synthesis may actually be,in part, due to GH´s ability to increase insulin sensitivity (12). Certainly the complex relationship between insulin, IGF, and GH is very synergistic and all interrelated to each other´s actions (13) (15) (16) (17). Using all three of them plus anabolic steroids and a fat-burner is the most potent muscle-building & fat -burning cycle possible.
Of course, when something seems too good to be true, it usually is. Unfortunately, the bad news is that insulin can easily stimulate adipose (fat) storage. Generally, though, most bodybuilders take insulin with a fat burner or 2 (Thyroid meds are the most popular choice), as well as anabolic steroids and sometimes even GH and IGF, for reasons previously explained. All of this adds up to decreasing the chance that fat is stored, and greatly increases the amount of muscle that will be gained.
Anyway, as you probably guessed, endogenous insulin (the stuff naturally found in your body) operates on feedback from within your body. 

When your glucose levels get high, which is what happens when you eat a sugary snack, insulin is then released from your beta cells. When glucose is low, insulin is, of course, low. 

In fact, simply adding liquid glucose to a liquid amino-acid meal (thereby raising insulin levels) will increase the absorption of the ingested amino acids by roughly 50%!(7) Now, think about this: If a natural insulin response to ingested glucose can give you 50% better absorption of protein, think about how much protein absorption injecting it will give you..
So, now that we have some kind of understanding as to what endogenous insulin does, lets try to figure out exactly what exogenous insulin can do (that´s the kind you get from a bottle..). Medically, of course, insulin is used to treat diabetes...thus becoming diabetic is a real risk with improper insulin usage.

First, I´m going to give you some clinical examples of how insulin has been used as an anti-catabolic agent. In the first study I read, insulin levels were increased 15-fold in infants suffering extreme catabolism. This level of insulin administration produced a 32% reduction in protein breakdown (4). In the second study I read exogenous insulin impeded muscle protein loss in burn victims (5). It´s important to note that you MUST have enough amino acids (protein) in your body for insulin to exert an anabolic effect. If there are not enough amino acids floating around in your body from your last few meals, insulin will not be anabolic at all. On the other hand, If amino acid concentrations are maintained at normal or high levels as they would be in a typical athlete or bodybuilder´s diet, a net protein deposition in muscle will occur (more protein deposited in your muscle = more muscle gained). This effect of insulin depositing protein in your muscles is primarily because of an actual stimulation of protein synthesis and also owing to an inhibition of protein breakdown (10). The lesson here is that even with insulin, diet is the key to it all. You need to have enough protein in order to build muscle, regardless of how much insulin you take. 

Let´s quantify this a bit. What about the anabolic and anti-catabolic properties of insulin? Can we put some solid numbers on any of this?

Sure. 

From the following chat, you can see that insulin puts your protein balance into a much more beneficial state, and concomitantly lowers protein degradation by inhibition of the lysosomal pathway (this is it´s anti-catabolic effect) (11) and raises protein synthesis (this is it´s anabolic effect).



Protein kinetics. Protein balance, degradation, and synthesis rates are shown (measured in nmol phenylalanine " min 1 " 100 ml 1). Values represent means ± SE for the basal (open bars) and last 30 min of the insulin infusion (filled bars) periods with the 3 different rates of amino acid infusion (in ml " min 1 " kg 1) (* P < 0.05 and ** P < 0.01 for basal vs. infusion period).(5)

What this chart tells me is that insulin can efficiently utilize a great deal of protein above and beyond what your body could normally utilize, and that if you should decide to use insulin, you should be taking in at least 2.2g/kg of bodyweight, and preferably 3-4.5g/kg of bodyweight.
So now we know how & why insulin works, and how well it works. Ok, lets figure out how to use it. I´ll give you two basic ideas on how to safely use insulin, as well as a third "hybrid idea," and a dirty little trick on how to use insulin with a cyclic ketogenic diet, to get into ketosis earlier.
Whichever way you decide to use, remember, insulin has the ability to stimulate fat storage, so you want to make sure you are using anabolic steroids with it, as they will preferentially drive protein and nutrients towards being used for the accumulation of lean body mass over adipose tissue (fat). Personally, I also like to use a thyroid medication (Synthroid) to further insure none of my injectable insulin is going to put any fat on me. If you´ve been paying attention up until now, I´m sure I don´t have to tell you that GH and IGF are also very potent (and expensive) additions to any stack containing insulin. If all of that didn´t whet your appetite, then consider the fact that insulin, GH, and IGF are undetectable on drug tests! Currently, there´s speculative ways to test for them, but nothing consistent has been established. I suspect that many a top level "natural" bodybuilder has been helped out by insulin, GH, and IGF. 

So now that we know something about insulin, let´s see what kind is most appropriate for bodybuilding or athletic purposes, as there are several types of insulin available, and choosing the correct type is of utmost importance. Basically there are 5 different types of insulin but we´ll look at the only 2 you should use in the format for bodybuilding, and from them, we´ll pick the type which will best suit our purposes of building muscle:
*Humalog and Humulin Insulin*


Humalog (Insulin lispro inj.) is the fastest acting insulin available
Humulin-R (Regular Insulin) has a short duration of effect
(*there are also blends available of two or more of these types of insulin, in varying ratios of Long:Short or anything in-between)

Of these 6 possible choices, the first would appear to be the best and safest, but that particular type of insulin is (unfortunately) only available with a prescription, and getting it through a typical steroid source (which usually means through the mail) is not advisable, since you can not be sure it has been properly stored and refrigerated throughout the shipping and handling process. Needless to say, attempting to forge a prescription for this stuff is an exceptionally poor idea.

Our next best choice for an injectable insulin is Humulin-R, so that´s what we´re going to be using. Humulin R is available without a prescription, from any pharmacy. This stuff has a fairly rapid onset and peak, and ergo is much easier to deal with than the other forms of insulin available, some last very long, or have varying peaks and spikes throughout their duration, and as such are just too difficult to monitor and control.

The first and most obvious way to utilize insulin for it´s anabolic effect is to take a little bit with each meal, possibly 1-2iu´s up to 5-6x a day (insulin is measured in international units, not mgs as is common with anabolic steroids). This way you´d be getting the greatest benefit of insulin possible with each meal and the least risk of using too much and going into shock. Of course some bodybuilders have reported using up to 20-40iu/day, but I wouldn´t recommend this unless you are very experienced, and have your diet in perfect order. You´ll want to take in a tiny bit of essential fats, a decent amount of mixed carbs (i.e. carbs of varying glycemic indexes), and at least 40g of protein with each meal, when using this method of insulin use. And clearly, you´ll want to work up to this amount of insulin use, perhaps adding 1iu per day until you reach a level you are comfortable with. This holds true for either method of insulin use I´m presenting. 

*THE PREFERRED AND SAFEST METHOD - IMO*
The second way you can use it is to take 1iu of insulin with your post workout meal, eventually working up to 1iu/10kgs of bodyweight. When using this method, you´ll want a post workout shake consisting of roughly 100-200g of mixed carbs and 40-50 grams of protein... nd don´t forget a small amount of essential fats with your shake. I have used insulin this way, along with anabolic steroids and a thyroid med, and have found it to enhance the gains from my cycle by around 15-20% as compared with a similar cycle which did not include insulin. When using with HGH inject HGH and Insulin post workout together for best results.  and I don't mean in the same slin pin either for all you knuckleheads. lol

*YOU MUST BE ON YOUR A+ GAME AND HAVE MADE BB YOUR LIFE, CAREER, GOAL AND ALL!*

The final method is to use the first method as well as the second. SO you´d be taking in 1-2ius with each regular meal and up to 1iu/10kgs of bodyweight with your post workout meal. This would ensure maximum efficiency from each bite of food you eat, but this way is also the most dangerous, and you need to monitor your blood sugar. If you get tired after a shot you´ll need to get some mixed carbs into you quickly (Gatoraid and a few Granola bars and/or candy bars), it´s a good idea to carry those kinds of things around with you as insurance that your blood sugar doesn´t go too low. You also don´t want to take this stuff at night before bed, because you won´t know if your blood sugar is going low and that´s making you drowsy (meaning you could be facing hypoglycemia, and about to go into a coma) or you are just tired because it´s your normal bedtime. 
And as for that dirty little trick I was telling you about...a small amount of insulin may be taken when starting a cyclic ketogenic diet, with your first meal of the day you begin. This meal would be fats and proteins, without carbs, and only 2-4iu of insulin would be taken. The following meal, you can use half the dose of insulin as you did at your first meal. The result would be that you could be in ketosis before the end of that first day, where as usually it would take 2 or even up to 3 days to accomplish this. Using insulin in this manner is very dangerous, and was even called "Death Wish Dieting" by Dan Duchaine..
Whichever method you use, remember to keep your insulin refrigerated, as Insulin will degrade very quickly outside of a refrigerated environment. Don´t leave this stuff out of the fridge too long, either.

References: 


Human Anatomy and Physiology, 6th Edition, John W. Hole
hyperinsulinemia unmasks insulin´s effect to stimulate protein synthesis in human forearm.Am. J. Physiol. 274 (Endocrinol. Metab. 37): E1067-E1074, 1999
Impaired anabolic response of muscle protein synthesis is associated with S6K1 dysregulation in elderly humans. FASEB J. 2004 Oct;18(13):1586-7. Epub 2004 Aug 19.
Intravenous insulin decreases protein breakdown in infants on extracorporeal membrane oxygenation.J Pediatr Surg. 2004 Jun;39(6):839-44; discussion 839-44.
Extremity hyperinsulinemia stimulates muscle protein synthesis in severely injured patients Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Apr;286(4):E529-34. Epub 2003 Dec 9.
Insulin: the other anabolic hormone of puberty. Acta Paediatr Suppl. 1999 Dec;88(433):84-7. Review.
Contribution of amino acids and insulin to protein anabolism during meal absorption. Diabetes. 1996 Sep;45(9):1245-52.
Anabolic effects of insulin on bone suggest a role for chromium picolinate in preservation of bone density.Med Hypotheses. 1995 Sep;45(3):241-6. Review.
Physiologic hyperinsulinemia stimulates protein synthesis and enhances transport of selected amino acids in human skeletal muscle. J Clin Invest. 1995 Feb;95(2):811-9.
Insulin action on protein metabolism.Baillieres Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1993 Oct;7(4):989-1005. Review.
Effects of chronic hyperandrogenism and/or administered central nervous system insulin on ovarian manifestation and gonadotropin and steroid secretion. Fertil Steril. 2005 Apr;83 Suppl 4:1319-26.
Metabolic effects of growth hormone in humans. Metabolism. 1995 Oct;44(10 Suppl 4):33-6.
Clinical uses of insulin-like growth factor I. Ann Intern Med. 1994 Apr 1;120(7):593-601.
Binding of methyltrienolone to androgen receptors in human skin fibroblasts is enhanced by insulin.J Androl. 1992 May-Jun;13(3):242-8.
Are the metabolic effects of GH and IGF-I separable?Growth Horm IGF Res. 2005 Feb;15(1):19-27
IGF-1 and insulin as growth hormones.Novartis Found Symp. 2004;262:56-77; discussion 77-83, 265-8. Review
Divergent effect of endogenous and exogenous sex steroids on the insulin-like growth factor I response to growth hormone in short normal adolescents.J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Dec;89(12):6185-92


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## BigRed73 (Sep 11, 2010)

BUMP for MODS to make sticky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## roastchicken (Sep 11, 2010)

Great read! +1


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## Built (Sep 11, 2010)

bigred, who wrote this? I just deleted all the URLs that linked to another website.


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## BigRed73 (Sep 11, 2010)

Insulin insulin Anabolic SteroidProfiles - Steroid . com

Thought would be a great cut and paste.  I added a little here and there but overall it's the same from link.

I have used slin before and WOW what a huge differences with size and gains.  Never went over the limit of IU's and always did option #2.

Why is there something wrong with cutting and pasting other articles from other sites?  Hope not


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## Built (Sep 11, 2010)

BigRed73 said:


> Insulin insulin Anabolic SteroidProfiles - Steroid . com
> 
> Thought would be a great cut and paste.  I added a little here and there but overall it's the same from link.
> 
> ...



There's a big problem if you don't cite your source. 
Other than that, no.


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## Marat (Sep 11, 2010)

Due to the extremely high danger risk and despite all the warning messages within the post, it's probably not a good idea to give any advice on administering insulin.


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## BigRed73 (Sep 11, 2010)

Marat said:


> Due to the extremely high danger risk and despite all the warning messages within the post, it's probably not a good idea to give any advice on administering insulin.


 
Well there are risks for taking AS but we still do it!  These are risks ordering from sources all over the world but we do it.  Better to be educated then not to be, correct?

Built,

Why do I need to tell the source when you see the references.  Those are the sources of info. The site only put together based on the references just like school and college.  Did not think it was a big deal but next time I will. Sorry if I upset you and/or the site.  I searched and NO articles about slin which IMO is silly for not having unless these people are not BB or aspiring to be.  Thanks and next time I will!!


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## Marat (Sep 11, 2010)

BigRed73 said:


> Well there are risks for taking AS but we still do it!  These are risks ordering from sources all over the world but we do it.  Better to be educated then not to be, correct?
> 
> 
> I searched and NO articles about slin which IMO is silly for not having unless these people are not BB or aspiring to be.



It's a matter of assessing risk and and also a matter of the demographics of a bodybuilding forum.

 A single improperly dosed injection can cause insulin shock and quickly result in death. It is extremely unlikely, aside from infections, for anything serious to occur from a improperly dosed injection of steroids. 

Additionally, there is a large group of individuals who can safely use steroids whereas the number of individuals where insulin use would be prudent is extremely small. Career bodybuilders are not getting their advice from bodybuilding forums.


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## BigRed73 (Sep 11, 2010)

So we should avoid the questions when ppl ask?  Someone asked question a week or so ago so I thought I would post the true facts of insulin and let's leave to the user to decide what they do or don't do!

I forgot if you inject oil base into vein you can't die!!! Wow a single incorrect injection can kill you also or did you forget this?

Insulin is safe if done correctly and has major advantages to the body. Yes it is a risk and some people are willing to take that risk just want them educated about it.

Yes Pro BB don't need to since they have the money and staff to monitor their health and if they don't then they are dumb and don't really care about there body just there image and look.

Later


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## theCaptn' (Sep 11, 2010)

hmm . . think id rather use mega-doses of test than fuck with the slin


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## BigRed73 (Sep 11, 2010)

Sure high doses of test can't affect the liver or cause cancer.  Those are also risks we take when we use AS!!!

To each is own and was just a post to keep people informed.


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## Marat (Sep 11, 2010)

You're welcome to reply to all questions in any manner that you wish.

However, it is reckless to suggest that the risks associated with the administration of insulin are comparable to those of administering steroids.


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## theCaptn' (Sep 11, 2010)

Marat said:


> You're welcome to reply to all questions in any manner that you wish.
> 
> However, it is reckless to suggest that the risks associated with the administration of insulin are comparable to those of administering steroids.


 
agreed . . there are enough dumb assholes around here as it is


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## Dark Geared God (Sep 11, 2010)

TheCapt'n said:


> agreed . . there are enough dumb assholes around here as it is


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## Built (Sep 11, 2010)

BigRed73 said:


> Built,
> 
> Why do I need to tell the source when you see the references.


Because otherwise, it looks like you are the author. If you are, that's cool - we know whom to credit - heh, or blame. LOL. But if you're not, it's theft. Not only is this not cool, it can be a copyright violation. 



BigRed73 said:


> Sure high doses of test can't affect the liver or cause cancer.  Those are also risks we take when we use AS!!!





Marat said:


> You're welcome to reply to all questions in any manner that you wish.
> 
> However, it is reckless to suggest that the risks associated with the administration of insulin are comparable to those of administering steroids.



AAS have risks and sides, so does insulin. 

You can pin a vein with AAS and get an embolism. Even type I diabetics can fuck up a dose of insulin and die. 

I have never heard of anyone dying from their first shot of gear. And I know a lot more gearheads than diabetics. 

BigRed, you're quite right, lots of people use insulin, lots of 'em are fine. Some substances are very, very tricky to dose properly. Insulin is one, DNP comes to mind as another. Very little leeway for error. The one good thing about insulin is that it is, at least, available OTC and thus of exactly known concentration. 

That being said, it would be something you'd want to study carefully, then check with a doctor, then check with your homies, and make sure you had expert supervision for before risking it. If at all. 

You'd be an utter fool to try it alone, based only on an anonymous post on an internet forum.


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## BigRed73 (Sep 11, 2010)

Well put!!  100% agree!!

Wow did not know it would cause so much controversy.


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## Grozny (Sep 12, 2010)

actually taking slin will ALL  depends on your stats if you're  really skinny or/and want to compete soon, you could use slin to gain  weight on your off days, but why don't let off days be off days ..and  relax, eat, sleap and recover.. I know builders that watch their  foodintake the whole week and they use the saterday for a lonely lesser  muscle group to train and eat junk (junk-day if you have to watch your  weight). Some add some earobic exercisings too. And after a lazy Sunday  you have a whole week to use again. 

As a rule of the tumb: 1 iu for every 10 kg bodymass. And two hours before and three hours after your shot of slin NO FAT. 
After the shot (some wait 15 minutes but why??) 100 gr quick  carbohydrates preferably fluidly ( b.e. weightgainer and like Marco said  creatine is optional too) 15 minutes later a meal from mixed proteines  and carbo's. 
Keep chocalate or sugar or beaverages with sugar present in case you suffer from a hypo. 

 took this great article from AP : 

"Please note (warning): I have personally used insulin for over 8 years  and can control it's effects for my personal level of development. I am  not a medical doctor and therefore not fully qualified to recommend  insulin use for people. What follows is my experience in 8 years of use  and what I have learned. If anyone has additional information that is  pertinent, please add to the thread, but do not reply from heresay, only  if you are qualified to add something of value to this thread. 


Insulin is one of many hormones that helps the body turn the food we eat  into energy. Also, insulin helps us store energy that we can use later.  After we eat, insulin works by causing sugar (glucose) to go from the  blood into our body's cells to make fat, sugar, and protein. When we  need more energy between meals, insulin will help us use the fat, sugar,  and protein that we have stored. This occurs whether we make our own  insulin in the pancreas gland or take it by injection. 

8 Years ago when I first made the decision to try insulin, information  was limited, the internet was not full of help like it is now and I  relied on correspondance from Rich Gaspari and Tim Belknap who were  extremely helpful. I started my first insulin use off season, during  bulking when it's use is easiest to control. I used Humulin R, regular  resonse time insulin for my first cycle. It has a release time of up to 8  hours, so blood sugar monitoring is mandatory. It has an onset of about  1/2 hour, reaching its peak in 2-5 hours and tapering off by hour 8. I  used 2iu post workout with 20 grams of sugar per iu, immediately  following a workout, increasing 2 iu per week until I reached a maximum  of 12iu. Since it will remain active in the body for up to 8 hours,  morning workouts were a must. Because I was off season, I was able to  take in enough carbs every three hours to keep from going hypo. 

My second cycle of insulin was Humulin type L, which is a very long  acting insuling; since I was bulking, I decided to try a long acting  insulin to stay anabolic all day. It will remain active in the body for  16-20 hours, is active 1/2 hour after injection, reaching its peak in  3-5 hours, will re-peak at 10-12 hours and slowly taper down. You must  use a glucometer for any insulin use, but especially with long term  insulin. I had to consume minimum 100 grams of carbs every 3 hours  during the day, I got nothing but fat off of insulin type L and do not  ever recommend anyone use it. It is too hard to control. 

I did many cycles of Humulin R for years, progressing from 2iu up to  20iu post workout. After many post workout only cycles of insulin, I  started to experiment with insulin use on non-workout days. I again  started slowly and increased dosages with monitoring by glucometer. I  used only with breakfast at first and then added in an afternoon  injection as well. I never went above 10iu at each meal, always checking  my blood sugar every 1/2 hour. Yes your fingers will hurt like hell,  but I would rather have sore fingers than live in a casket. 

Finally Humalog R was introduced and I first tried it in 1999. This is  what bodybuilders had been waiting for, a fast acting insulin that had a  quick onset, short duration and was better controlled through sugar  intake. My first cycle of Humalog started with the again customary 2iu  postworkout, slowly increasing to 10iu post workout. Humalog has an  onset of 15-20 minutes, reaches a peak in 1 hour and will remain active  up to 5 hours. 

I only recommend Humalog use for anyone considering insulin. It is the  easiest to control and work with. Here are my recommendations and  guidelines for use: 

Start with 2iu postworkout only, drinking 10 grams glucose or dextrose  per unit injected. You may slowly increase the dose up to 10iu total but  never exceed 10iu, even if you are experienced. You must, I repeat,  must use a glucometer, don't even think of using insulin without it.  Going by feel for symptoms of hypo is stupid and reckless. You want to  make sure your blood sugar levels stay above 80mg/dl ideally, but never  let them drop below 40. 

Since humalog is active for up to 5 hours, you must make sure not to  take it after evening workouts, unless you will be awake for those 5  hours. Insulin levels can crash rapidly and there are no warning signs  when you are sleeping. Low levels will make you sleepy, so you just  won't wake up - ever! 

Your postworkout meal should consist of minimum 10 grams sugar per iu  injected plus minimum 50 grams whey protein. Your follow up meal, 1 hour  after injection, when it reaches its peak, should consist of easily  digested proteins and carbs. No red meat; fish, chicken or turkey are  more easily digested. Carbs should be high glycemic, such as potatoes,  white rice or pasta. 

Your final meal during the 5 hour window can be anything you desire as  long as it has a minimum of 75 grams carbs. Oatmeal, red meat etc are  all acceptable, and your carbs should ideally be low glycemic to sustain  your stabilizing insulin levels. 

Insulin should be refridgerated at all times; though it is safe to leave  at room temperature for up to 30 days, I don't recommend it. 

Your injections should always be sub-q, IM injections do not allow for  the regular onset times and delay onset which makes controlling carbs  and monitoring sugar levels harder to do. 

Ideally injections should be in the lower abdominal area, sub-q. Pinch 1  inch of skin, roll in between your fingers to remove fatty deposits and  inject at a 90 degree angle crossing through the skin. This will insure  an optimal sub-q injection and less chance of IM or fat injections.  Both will slow absorbtion time which we are trying to eliminate. 

Take a glucometer reading 1/2 hour after injection to check levels. If  they are below 80mg/dl than take in more carbs immediately, take another  glucometer reading after the one hour mark to check full onset and  reaction. Again, if below 80mg than take in a fast acting carb with your  one hour meal. 

Signs of hypo include, dizziness, slow slurred speech, light-headedness,  sleepiness, lethargy, numbness in the outer limbs, and blurred vision.  Never take insulin unsupervised, alway let someone you know that you are  injecting so they can help monitor warning signs and symptoms.  Remember, the glucometer is your best friend, but someone else may  notice symptoms before you do and can assist in raising blood sugar  levels immediately. 

You may progress to taking Humalog on non-workout days, but only after  breakfast, and no more than 10iu. You must work up to the dosage and  again follow the above guidelines. Your meals should consist of a mix of  fast and slow acting carbs, and always include protein. Milk has fast  acting carbs, oatmeal is low glycemic, etc. always use the glycemic  index for carbs. 

These are the general rules of taking insulin safely and sanely. Again, I  do not recommend the casual lifter take insulin ever, it is better left  to those who compete and have reached a superior level of development.  It is best used to break plateaus, such as with GH or IGF. It is not for  newbies, nor for those without minimum 5 years lifting experience with  steroid use. 

If there is anything I forgot, please PM me or add advice to this  thread, but again only by those qualified to do so. You should have at  least 5 cycles insulin use to be qualified to help others. This is very  serious business and I cannot stress enough, not for the casual lifter."


If you shoot a few iu before training you will get a better pump, but  its a risky game nad you'll have to make sure you have a buddy that can  help you AND the extra quick carbo's present..


Work-out in the gym *****the bb-er shoots a dose of slin (1 iu per 10 kg  bodymass is normal*** starting with 5 iu and then raising with 2 iu per  time). He eats qiuck carbs, and later a full meal. One and a half hour  later you take some blood and feed that to the slinmeter. The ideal  level is 6 á 7, if the insulinlevel is higher then 7 you raise the  insulindose. He is on a dose of 10 iu and his bloodlevel is 10. Tomorrow  he will try a dose of 12 iu wich is higher then normal, my guess is he  will need somewhere around 14 iu. If he reaches a steady state ( reacts  every time with the same bloodlevel after the same dose of insulin) and  stops growing again, we'll add the growth hormone -T3. This is more to  find out what exactly his needs are. When he prepairs for a show next  year we'll have to be sure.​


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## Grozny (Sep 12, 2010)

*An interview with Milos Sarcev on slin usage: *

INTERVIEWS ARE A DIME A DOZEN AND CAN GO ONE OF 2 WAYS. THEY ARE EITHER  COMPLETELY f**kING BORING WHICH IS THE KIND YOU READ IN THE  MAGAZINES.....OR THEY ARE COMPLETELY FABRICATED, LIKE THE KIND YOU SEE  ON OTHER BODYBUILDING WEBSITES. THIS INTERVIEW REPRESENTS NEITHER. THE  NAME OF THE INDIVIDUAL HAS BEEN KEPT ANONYMOUS DUE TO CONTRACTUAL  OBLIGATIONS. WITH THAT BEING SAID, WHAT IS TO FOLLOW IS A MOST  INFORMATIVE AND EDUCATIONAL INTERVIEW ON ONE PARTICULAR TOPIC: 

TREVOR; WHAT WAS THE CAUSE OF THE 20-30LB BODYWEIGHT JUMPS FROM  1994-PRESENT. I MEAN LETS FACE IT, NASSER EL SONBATY WAS AN AVERAGE PRO  UNTIL 1995 AND RONNIE COLEMAN WAS A 2ND OR 3RD TIER ATHLETE UP UNTIL  1997, JEAN PIERRE FUX GAINED 40 LBS OF TISSUE IN A YEAR AND A HALF,  CHRIS CORMIER HAS GONE FROM AVERAGE TO TOP 3, HELL EVEN DORIAN WENT FROM  230LBS TO 260LBS SEEMINGLY OVERNIGHT. ALL OF THESE MEN HAVE HAD LOTS OF  EXPERIENCE WITH STEROIDS AND G.H. SO THERE HAD TO BE ANOTHER FACTOR. AT  FIRST IT WAS THOUGHT IGF-1 WAS RESPONSIBLE, BUT THIS PROVED TO BE A  RATHER INEFFECTIVE COMPOUND. 

SO WHAT WAS IT? 

THIS QUESTION HAS BEEN ON EVERYONE'S MIND SINCE THE EMERGENCE OF  280-290LB BODYBUILDERS FROM SEEMINGLY OUT OF NO-WHERE. I ALWAYS THOUGHT  IT MUST HAVE BEEN THE EMERGENCE OF IGF-1, BUT THEN AFTER RESEARCHING  SOME THINGS, I FOUND OUT THAT IGF-1 IS A nuts DRUG AND DOESN'T DO MUCH.  (hey this is Trevors opinion not mine-DC) WHAT GIVES? 

IFBBPRO: I N S U L I N! THAT'S WHAT GIVES! I'VE KNOWN A LOT OF THESE  GUYS FOR A WHILE NOW AND I CAN UNEQUIVOCALLY TELL YOU THAT IT IS THE  RESULT OF INSULIN THAT THESE HUGE LEAPS HAVE BEEN MADE. 

TREVOR; INSULIN? IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN HOW COME SO MANY PEOPLE CLAIM IT WILL MAKE YOU FAT 

IFBBPRO: BECAUSE IT CAN MAKE YOU FAT IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND DO NOT USE THE RIGHT TYPE. 

TREVOR; CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW TO USE IT SO ONE WOULD NOT GET FAT. 

IFBBPRO: ACTUALLY IT'S QUITE SIMPLY. YOU SEE THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPES  OF INSULIN L, N, R , AND HUMALOG. THE DIFFERENCE IS IN THE ACTING TIMES.  L LASTS IN THE SYSTEM FOR AROUND 24HOURS PEAKING SEVERAL TIMES  THROUGHOUT THE DAY AND TAKES 2 HOURS TO BEGIN TO WORK, N IS MEDIUM IN  ITS ACTING TIME LASTING AROUND 12 HOURS AND R IS THE QUICKEST OF THESE  THREE, LASTING FOR ABOUT 6 HOURS AND HITTING THE SYSTEM IN ABOUT 30-45  MINUTES. HUMALOG IS NEWER AND ACTUALLY BEGINS WORKING IN 5-15 MINUTES  AND LASTS FOR 4 HOURS 

ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND THIS, YOU CAN USE INSULIN TO YOUR ADVANTAGE. WITH  ALL INSULIN YOU NEED TO HAVE GLUCOSE PRESENT IN THE BLOOD STREAM SO IT  CAN HAVE SOMETHING TO ACT ON AND TRANSPORT IT INTO THE CELLS. THE  POPULAR RULE OF THUMB OF 10-15 GRAMS OF GLUCOSE/CARBS PER I.U. OF  INSULIN WAS SOMETHING THAT I ACTUALLY CAME UP WITH. PLEASE DON'T THINK I  AM BEING ARROGANT, IT'S JUST THAT I WAS DOING A LOT OF RESEARCH ON  INSULIN IN THE EARLY 90'S AND IT IS DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY DUE TO THAT  RESEARCH THAT INSULIN HAS BECOME A POPULAR TOOL IN THE BODYBUILDERS  ARSENAL. MANY PEOPLE HAVE CONTACTED ME ON HOW TO USE INSULIN. NOW WITH  INSULIN YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT IT IS AN INDISCRIMINANT CARRIER WHICH  IS BOTH GOOD AND BAD. GOOD BECAUSE ALONG WITH THE TRANSPORTING OF  GLUCOSE, IT WILL ALSO TRANSPORT AMINO ACIDS INTO THE MUSCLE CELLS. BAD  BECAUSE IF THERE IS A LOT OF FAT PRESENT, IT WILL SHOVE THAT INTO CELLS  AS WELL AND THIS IS WHY YOU GET FAT FROM INSULIN. IF YOU USE A LONG  ACTING INSULIN THAT PEAKS SEVERAL TIMES THROUGHOUT THE DAY, IT IS  IMPERATIVE THAT YOU EAT A CARB AND PROTEIN MEAL EVERY 2 HOURS TO INSURE  THAT WHEN IT PEAKS, YOU HAVE A NUTRIENT POOL AVAILABLE FOR IT TO WORK  ON. IF YOU TOOK A SHOT OF INSULIN IN THE MORNING AND IT WAS LONG ACTING,  IF YOU EAT A PIZZA AT 8:00PM, THE FAT WILL GET TRANSPORTED INTO THE  CELLS AND YOU WILL GET FAT. THE WAY AROUND THIS IS TO 1. KEEP DIETARY  FAT TO A MINIMUM ALL THE TIME OR 2. USE A FASTER ACTING INSULIN. FOR  ME--EVEN THOUGH I ALWAYS EAT LOW AMOUNTS OF FAT PER DAY--THE ANSWER  SHOULD BE 2. 

THE REASON FOR THIS LIES IN THE FACT THAT YOU CAN CONTROL IT MUCH BETTER  IF YOU KNOW THAT IT IS HITTING IN 15-20MINUTES AND WILL BE OUT OF THE  SYSTEM IN 4 HOURS OR LESS. ALL OF THE INCIDENTS OF PEOPLE FAINTING OR  GOING INTO COMAS BECAUSE OF INSULIN HAS TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THERE  WAS NOT ENOUGH GLUCOSE PRESENT IN THE BLOODSTREAM WHEN THE INSULIN  PEAKED. WHEN YOU USE A LONG ACTING INSULIN THAT PEAKS AT VARIOUS TIMES  OVER A 24HOUR PERIOD, YOU RUN A MUCH GREATER RISK OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH  GLUCOSE PRESENT BECAUSE YOU ARE MORE APT TO SKIP A MEAL OR BE DRIVING IN  YOUR CAR WHEN IT HITS...I LIKE THE HUMALOG THE BEST AND WOULD TELL  EVERYONE TO USE IT SOLELY OR IF THEY CANNOT GET IT, USE THE R. DO NOT  USE THE N! 

TREVOR; DOES IT MATTER WHAT TYPES OF CARBS YOU EAT WHEN YOU USE INSULIN? 

IFBBPRO: YES! I AM A FIRM BELIEVER THAT YOU SHOULD USE PRIMARILY SIMPLE CARBS. 

TREVOR; SIMPLE CARBS? 

IFBBPRO: YES. LOOK AT THE END OF THE DAY THE BODY BREAKS DOWN COMPLEX  CARBS INTO GLUCOSE AND IT IS GLUCOSE THAT IS TRANSPORTED INTO THE CELLS.  WHEN YOU ARE USING A RAPID ACTING INSULIN IT IS IMPORTANT TO MINIMIZE  THE TIME IT TAKES THE BODY TO CONVERT CARBS TO SIMPLE SUGARS. WHY CREATE  ANOTHER STEP IN THE PROCESS? IT ONLY TAKES MORE TIME AND YOU RUN THE  RISK OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH OF THE COMPLEX CARBS BROKEN DOWN INTO GLUCOSE  IN TIME WHEN THE INSULIN HITS. FOR THIS REASON I SUGGEST THE USE OF  DEXTROSE. 

TREVOR; SO WHAT IS THE REGIME YOU WOULD RECOMMEND? 

IFBBPRO: WELL I SUGGEST THAT FOR OPTIMAL RESULTS, YOU USE HUMALOG AT  10-15IU'S IMMEDIATELY AFTER TRAINING BECAUSE THAT IS WHEN YOU BODY IS  MOST DEPLETED OF GLYCOGEN STORES AND IS PRIMED TO OVERCOMPENSATE FOR THE  INFLUX OF NUTRIENTS. NOW HUMALOG HITS IN 5-15MINUTES SO YOU MUST  IMMEDIATELY INGEST 10 GRAMS OF SIMPLE CARBS PER EVERY I.U. OF INSULIN  YOU USE (IN THIS CASE BETWEEN 100-150 GRAMS) I WOULD ALSO TAKE IN  ADDITIONAL NUTRIENTS THAT HELP CONTRIBUTE TO MUSCLE GROWTH SUCH AS AMINO  ACIDS OR 50 GRAMS OF WHEY ISOLATE. I WOULD ALSO HAVE 5 GRAMS OF  CREATINE AT THIS TIME TO AID IN CELL VOLUMIZING. 

THE BEST CASE SCENARIO WOULD BE TO DO THIS TWICE AND DAY AND THE ONLY  WAY YOU CAN DO THIS TWICE A DAY IS IF YOU TRAIN TWICE A DAY (THE MORE  YOU DEPLETE YOUR GLYCOGEN STORES, THE MORE OF AN OPPORTUNITY YOU HAVE TO  USE INSULIN TO OVERCOMPENSATE WITH NUTRIENTS) 

TREVOR; WOULD YOU USE INSULIN DURING YOUR CONTEST PREP? 

IFBBPRO: ABSOLUTELY I WOULD NOT PREPARE WITHOUT IT. YOU JUST HAVE TO  KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU HAVE TO USE IT WHEN YOU CAN IN TERMS OF HIGH CARB  AND LOW CARB DAYS WHEN YOU ARE DIETING. 

TREVOR; SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT. YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT INSULIN  ALONE IS WHAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE 20-30LB. JUMP IN LEAN BODY MASS IN  ALL THE TOP GUYS? 

IFBBPRO: ABSOLUTELY. I GUARANTEE THAT IF A BODYBUILDER IS STAGNANT AND  HAS NOT USED INSULIN YET OR USED IT CORRECTLY, HE CAN PUT 20-30LBS OF  MUSCLE ON. THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. I AM SO SURE OF IT THAT I WOULD  BET MY LIFE ON IT. I AM THAT POSITIVE. 

TREVOR; ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT INSULIN WE SHOULD KNOW BEFORE WE MOVE ON? 

IFBBPRO: YES. WHEN YOU USE IT, YOU WILL FIND THAT YOUR MUSCLES FILL OUT  SO MUCH THAT YOU CANNOT USE IT EVERY DAY. I FIND THAT WITH MYSELF I CAN  USE IF FOR 2-3 DAYS AND THEN OFF FOR 1-2 DAYS. EVERYONE VARIES, BUT  THERE IS A POINT WHEN YOU ARE SO SUPERSATURATED THAT YOU CANNOT GET ANY  FULLER. ALSO I WOULD NOT GO OVER 40 I.U.'S OF INSULIN PER DAY DIVIDED  INTO 2 20IU SHOTS. JUST SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND


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## Krys (Sep 12, 2010)

i want to use it but i'm scared i studied aas for 2 years before i did my first cycle so looks like i have more studying to do for insulin huh.. 

(1) You can buy it at any Pharmacy without a scrip for it? 

(2) 1 iu for every 10 kg bodymass  what does that translate to in lbs?  Is it 2.2lbs is 1 kg?  if i'm not mistaken..


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## Built (Sep 12, 2010)

Let me google that for you


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## Name's Dalton (Jun 14, 2012)

BigRed73 said:


> Yes Pro BB don't need to since they have the money and staff to monitor their health and if they don't then they are dumb and don't really care about there body just there image and look.
> 
> Later


Which pros have the money and the staff? Too few, if you ask me.  I had dinner with a top am and a decent pro last weekend (not bragging, just saying) and neither of them has a sponsor, and these supplement sponsors don't pay what you think they would.  And we all know the winnings from the pro shows outside of the top 3 placings (and even that is confined largely to the Olympia and Arnold) are a joke.  They may have someone monitoring their health (as we all should), but I doubt many of them have a staff and certainly not the money other pro athletes would have.


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## SteroidalGazelle (Jun 14, 2012)

big red... a friend of mine wants to know how to use metformin in aid to help him loose weight???........


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## XYZ (Jun 14, 2012)

PLEASE DO NOT BUMP THESE OLD THREADS.

The first article is littered with misinformation and errors, NODODY should follow these guidelines.


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