# Using T3 on a Bulking Cycle?



## BillHicksFan (Sep 15, 2010)

I have roughly 5 weeks left on cycle which will include Dbol/test and I'm not sure whether I should add T3 into the mix. I like the idea of leaning out but I want to add some serious muscle mass aswell.

Will T3 hinder my gains if dose correctly? Is there a dose that will target fat over muscle as long as my diet and training are in check?

This is my first cycle, should I wait and use it later of throw it in the mix now? I could do with some leaning out around the stomach area.


What would you guys recommend?

All help is would be appreciated.


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## XYZ (Sep 15, 2010)

BillHicksFan said:


> I have roughly 5 weeks left on cycle which will include Dbol/test and I'm not sure whether I should add T3 into the mix. I like the idea of leaning out but I want to add some serious muscle mass aswell.
> 
> Will T3 hinder my gains if dose correctly? Is there a dose that will target fat over muscle as long as my diet and training are in check?
> 
> ...


 
You're not going to lean out if you just add the T3.  It will only hinder your gains if your dose is too high and your protein is too low.  50mcgs is fine for a bulk.

Do you know how to taper off of it?  I would recommend it but it seems you need to do some research before you screw yourself up.  You know you're playing with your thyroid hormones and the chance for fat rebound is high if you don't know WTF you're doing.

Good luck.


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## BillHicksFan (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks CT, I'm finding it difficult to get good info on using this stuff and I realise it is potentually dangerous if used incorrectly. 

What benefits should I expect to see by running it at 50mcgs and tapering off it correctly? I was counting on using clen which I had researched but that plan was foiled, now I'm running out of time as I know that I can only use T3 whist geared.


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## XYZ (Sep 15, 2010)

BillHicksFan said:


> Thanks CT, I'm finding it difficult to get good info on using this stuff and I realise it is potentually dangerous if used incorrectly.
> 
> What benefits should I expect to see by running it at 50mcgs and tapering off it correctly? I was counting on using clen which I had researched but that plan was foiled, now I'm running out of time as I know that I can only use T3 whist geared.


 

The ONLY thing it's going to do for you is help keep any fat gains down.  That's it.  Now if you're dropping your calories and increasing your energt expendature that's a different story.

You will be a little bit warmer, but overall nothing really noticable.


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## heavyiron (Sep 15, 2010)

T3 at 50mcg's daily is great on a bulk as it will increase nutrient uptake.


*Cytomel~T3 *
*Cytomel*

*(liothyronine sodium)*

Cytomel is a synthetic T3 hormone. As you may already know, most natural T3 is not produced directly by your thyroid gland, but rather is converted from the T4 thyroid hormone. (8)

*Cytomel T3 Weight Loss*

Natural T3 is a regulator of the oxidative metabolism of energy producing substrates (food or stored substrates like fat, muscle, and glycogen) by the mitochondria. The mitochondria, as you will recall from your high school biology class, are usually referred to as the "cell´s powerhouses" because they produce ATP. Taking Cytomel (supplemental T3) greatly increases the uptake of nutrients into the mitochondria and also their oxidation rate (i.e. the rate at which they are burned for energy), by increasing the activities of the enzymes involved in the oxidative metabolic pathway. Everything is working harder, in other words, and more fuel is needed to supplement this increased work rate. Therefore, as you can guess, taking supplemental Cytomel will increase your body´s energy demands. And if you are in a hypocaloric state, you will begin burning even fatter primarily due to an increase in ATP. This increased ATP causes an increase in overall metabolic activity. (8)(9)This is exactly what we want, and is why we would be taking thyroid hormones like Cytomel in the first place. If you aren´t taking anabolic steroids with your Cytomel, however, your body may start to eat away muscle to provide energy for you to function. Remember mitochondria/ATP aren´t very picky, but they are very efficient. What I mean by this is that they will use whatever is on hand to generate energy for your body to continue functioning, fat, protein, glucose; it doesn´t matter to ATP, as long as there´s something to give them energy. Taking this drug will increase their need to find something to burn to create this energy. Ergo, if we aren´t taking anabolic steroids while taking our T3, we may lose too much muscle, especially while dieting. 

Thus we can see that there are many advantages to using Cytomel to optimize our metabolic rate. It will also increase your body´s ability to synthesize protein, but from what I´ve seen personally, it acts as a catabolic when it isn´t administered with anabolic steroids. It is often the last thing added into a precontest diet, as it has a reputation for getting rid of the last few percentages of bodyfat& the "sticky fat" as it´s called in bodybuilding, the fat that just doesn´t want to leave you in the last few weeks of dieting. I think this is a poor use for this drug, and that it should be the first thing added into a diet to lose fat, as it will optimize your metabolic rate, which should be done at the outset of a diet, not after the calorie restriction has diminished your thyroid output and you are adding it in simply to replace what was lost.

*Cytomel Side Effects*

Unfortunately, in all of the studies I´ve seen, T3 also increased growth hormone production. (5)(6) As we all know, GH is also a strongly lipolytic compound, and this is another mechanism by which T3 may exert its effects, although I suspect this would only be a small percentage of its overall effects. This being the case, it has always been somewhat problematic to me to note that when GH and T3 are used together, the increased nitrogen retention normally found with GH use is negated. (7). If you were only using T3 and GH this may be a problem, but as I´ve already stated, you are going to need some anabolic agents if you are using T3. And as you have read previously, I recommend the veritable anabolic/lipolytic orgy of Insulin, T3, Anabolic Steroids, GH, and insulin, for 100% maximum results in minimal time.

On the brighter side, and of special note to dieters, administration of T3 has been shown to upregulate the beta 2 receptors in fat tissue. As you know clenbuterol and similar compounds downregulate this receptor, so using T3 with your clen will help stave off or reverse this downregulation. (1)(2)(3)(4). I would still recommend taking your benadryl every third week, though.

*Going off cytomel*

Finally, I would like to address the issue of recovery of your natural thyroid function after you stop taking cytomel. The horror stories of people on permanent thyroid replacement just aren´t true. I remember a few years ago, the rumor was circulating that the current Ms.Fitness had permanently shut off her thyroid gland, and was now fat and on thyroid hormone permanently. This is just another horror story based in nothing but conjecture and rumor, the studies I´ve looked at have shown people recovering their thyroid hormone relatively quickly (within months, at most) after going off of several YEARS (!) of thyroid replacement therapy (10)(11). I speculate that you can optimize your metabolic rate with Cytomel for 9-10 months a year, and just normalize yourself for 2-3 months (perhaps the winter, when you are mostly covered up), and then go right back on. Some people in the studies I read were on T3 for 30 years and recovered their natural thyroid function within short order. I think we can safely spend an athletic career using Cytomel 9-10 months out of the year, and just taking those few months off to normalize ourselves. Is this aggressive? Yes. Is this unsafe? NO.

*References:* 

1. Catecholamines inhibit Ca(2+)-dependent proteolysis in rat skeletal muscle through beta(2)-adrenoceptors and cAMP. Navegantes LC, Resano NM, Migliorini RH, Kettelhut IC Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2001 Sep;281(3):E449-54 

2. Regulation of human adipocyte gene expression by thyroid hormone J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2002 Feb;87(2):630-4 Viguerie N, Millet L, Avizou S, Vidal H, Larrouy D, Langin D. 

3. Alpha 2- and beta-adrenergic receptor binding and action in gluteal adipocytes from patients with hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism Metabolism 1987 Nov;36(11):1031-9 Richelsen B, Sorensen NS 

4. Regulation of beta 1- and beta 3-adrenergic agonist-stimulated lipolytic response in hyperthyroid and hypothyroid rat white adipocytes Br J Pharmacol 2000 Feb;129(3):448-56. Germack R, Starzec A, Perret GY 

5. Role of thyroid hormone in the control of growth hormone gene expression Braz J Med Biol Res 1994 May;27(5):1269-72. Volpato CB, Nunes MT. 

6. Low-dose T(3) improves the bed rest model of simulated weightlessness in men and women. Am J Physiol 1999 Aug;277(2 Pt 1):E370-9 Lovejoy JC, Smith SR, Zachwieja JJ, Bray GA, Windhauser MM, Wickersham PJ, Veldhuis JD, Tulley R, de la Bretonne JA. 

7. Effects of long-term growth hormone (GH) and triiodothyronine (T3) administration on functional hepatic nitrogen clearance in normal man. Wolthers T, Grofte T, Moller N, Vilstrup H, Jorgensen. J Hepatol 1996 Mar;24(3):313-9 

8. Human Anatomy and Physiology, 6th Edition. John w. Hole jr. 

9. Physicians Desk Reference 

10. Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy. N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4 Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH. 

11. Patterns off recovery of the hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis in patients taken of chronic thyroid therapy. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1975 Jul;41(1):70-80 Krugman LG, Hershman JM, Chopra IJ, Levine GA, Pekary E, Geffner DL, Chua Teco GN ​


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## BarbellBeast (Sep 15, 2010)

i wouldn't use it on a bulk. a recomp for sure though


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## JCBourne (Sep 15, 2010)

wk.1 - t3: 20/30/40/60/60/60/60  
wk.2 - t3: 60
wk.3 - t3: 60  
wk.4 - t3: 60/60/60/50/50/50/40  
wk.5 - t3: 40/40/30/30/30/20/20  
wk.6 - t3: 20/10/10/10/0/0/0 

I'd throw clen into the mix too. That is my plan towards the end of my cycle. Since you only have 5 weeks left you'll need to adjust a bit. I'm going to do last 4 weeks of cycle + 2 weeks between last injection and PCT.


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## BillHicksFan (Sep 16, 2010)

There are three options as I cannot find clen atm and I am looking for the best long term result.

1. I use T3 and accept that fact that it will hinder some muscle gain with the benefit of reduce fat gain.

2. I don't use T3 and risk losing *more* of my muscle gains during the cutting process.

3. I forget about the T3 and keep searching for clen. To be honest the idea of messing with my thyroid concerns me a little, how safe it this stuff if used correctly?


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## theCaptn' (Sep 16, 2010)

Heavy just gave the answers man. 50mcg ED 

When Im dieting, I run it at 100mcg . . . . . natural production is 25mcg, so you wont be fkg with anything.

You're g2g imo


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## BillHicksFan (Sep 16, 2010)

ok I'll give it a shot, thanks guys.


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## XYZ (Sep 16, 2010)

GymRat707 said:


> wk.1 - t3: 20/30/40/60/60/60/60
> wk.2 - t3: 60
> wk.3 - t3: 60
> wk.4 - t3: 60/60/60/50/50/50/40
> ...


 

You don't need to taper it up when you start, only when you're coming off.


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## VictorZ06 (Sep 16, 2010)

IMHO, T3 does not have to be tapered off. The shock is a myth after reading more current studies.








/V


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## World-Pharma.org (Sep 16, 2010)

Dear BillHicksFan, nice Avatar!


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## heavyiron (Sep 16, 2010)

I don't taper at all with 50mcg's of T3. Jump on as long as you like and jump off.

If I go higher I may taper.


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## BillHicksFan (Sep 16, 2010)

Ok, I've started with a dose of 50 mcg 20 mins before breakfast.

Will I now need to eat more to achieve a successfull bulk or should I keep my diet the same and go by mirror plus scale weight?

During the past 8 weeks I have gained 6.5kg and managed to reduce bf%.

Thanks again for your input guys, I feel much more confident in taking this stuff now.


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## UnrealMachine (Sep 16, 2010)

T3 and bulking I think depends a lot on the person, for me i have a slow metabolism and 100mcg of T3 hits me pretty hard and even just 50 is plenty for me if i'm just trying to recomp. I think for most people 50 on their bulk will be fine but if you are looking to stay lean then a clean diet and some cardio is more important than adding more drugs, I'm sure you know that just thought i'd throw it out there


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## JCBourne (Sep 16, 2010)

Billhick, I don't mean to jack your thread. Mind if I ask a few Qs?


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## BillHicksFan (Sep 16, 2010)

No problem man, ask away.


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## JCBourne (Sep 17, 2010)

Fellas. I saw you said I don't need to go up and down with the dosing of t3 until I come off cycle, should I just do this last week? (tampering down)


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## XYZ (Sep 17, 2010)

BillHicksFan said:


> Ok, I've started with a dose of 50 mcg 20 mins before breakfast.
> 
> Will I now need to eat more to achieve a successfull bulk or should I keep my diet the same and *go by mirror plus scale weight*?
> 
> ...


 
I would do this, but with calipers and a body tape.  Scale weight doesn't tell the whole story.


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## XYZ (Sep 17, 2010)

GymRat707 said:


> Fellas. I saw you said I don't need to go up and down with the dosing of t3 until I come off cycle, should I just do this last week? (tampering down)


 

There are different opinions.  I think yes others think no.  Read the thread and make your own decision.


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## Supermans Daddy (Sep 17, 2010)

Just a thought, but have you considered Triacanna ? Works as well as T3 without all the worries. VERY effective as well as user friendly. After come'n off T3 there may be somethin else you may want to consider. PCT for your thyroid (I never hear anyone talk bout that?????). That would be Gugglesterone. No suggestions or opinions. Just options that may be useful.

Good Luck
Peace and Love


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## BillHicksFan (Sep 17, 2010)

CT said:


> I would do this, but with calipers and a body tape. Scale weight doesn't tell the whole story.


 
Yes I agree, I should have elaborated when I mentioned "scale weight." Calipers haven't worked well with me in the past as I used to be really fat. The skin around my stomach is fairly lose however now that I have put on some size and reduced bf% it looks a lot better. To look at me nobody would know I was ever fat however calipers give a different reading eveytime due to the lack of tightness in my skin.

Instead of using body tape I have judged my growth by the new clothes that I've needed to buy and the old clothes that no longer fit me.

Now that I've introduced T3 into the mix I'll start taking precise measurements using body tape. 

Thanks again.


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## Built (Sep 18, 2010)

You may wish to reconsider the dosing. 50mcg is a replacement dose - dosing thyroid is a lot like dosing test in that there is a threshold under which you won't shut down endogenous thyroid, and a feedback mechanism where reduced TSH will slow your own thyroid hormone production. 

Also, while true that triiodothyronine enhances protein synthesis, chronic elevation leads to insulin resistance, in much the same way as chronic hypocaloric dieting leads to insulin resistance - the body's way of sparing muscle protein. I would NOT want to face bulking with induced insulin resistance. 

On a bulk, I my suggestion would be 12.5-25mcg. No androgen would be necessary since this is on a hypercaloric diet, not a hypocaloric diet. Perqs of this level should include enhanced protein synthesis, glucose uptake, CNS activation and mitochondrial density. It can also help anti-depression meds work. 

Higher than this, well, if you've been taking it and it does the trick, you know your body. I stand by my recommendation to go low with the T3 for this particular application unless your personal experience dictates otherwise. Hyperthyroidism is not fun, and can lead to some rather unpleasant reactions, such as edema and anxiety, not to mention cardiac arrhythmia. 

My .02


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## juggernaut (Sep 18, 2010)

Built is correct on this. In my personal experience (or rather my fuckup) I dosed way too high and suffered from lethargy, a chronically high heart rate (which scared the hell out of me) and edema. I couldnt wear certain shoes because I become so bloated. Gains stopped, my muscle tone went flat, and holy shit I was a mess. Well, to make a long story short, I tapered off, used some vitamin/mineral support (C, E, potassium and magnesium), went low carb for the two weeks and rested with feet above my head. It took a while, but more is not necessarily better. 

As Built would say, stay under the radar and use it sparingly. Trust me, what I went through scared the be-jesus out of me.


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## Built (Sep 18, 2010)

Jugg, I'm glad you're okay. You weren't the only one scared.


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## juggernaut (Sep 18, 2010)

Built said:


> Jugg, I'm glad you're okay. You weren't the only one scared.



Yeah, but thanks to you I made it out okay. I will NOT make that same mistake ever again. Even now, I'm a bit apprehensive about using it, but I'm not going anywhere near what I did before. The fear factor keeps me in check.


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## BillHicksFan (Sep 18, 2010)

Built said:


> You may wish to reconsider the dosing. 50mcg is a replacement dose - dosing thyroid is a lot like dosing test in that there is a threshold under which you won't shut down endogenous thyroid, and a feedback mechanism where reduced TSH will slow your own thyroid hormone production.
> 
> Also, while true that triiodothyronine enhances protein synthesis, chronic elevation leads to insulin resistance, in much the same way as chronic hypocaloric dieting leads to insulin resistance - the body's way of sparing muscle protein. I would NOT want to face bulking with induced insulin resistance.
> 
> ...


 
Built, I've been dosing at 50mcg for the last three days so have I already shut my endogenous thyroid? If this is the case is there any point in lowering my dose after the shutdown has already occured?

How long does it take for hyperthyroidism to set in? Is there anything I can do to monitor my health to make using this drug a safer process?
If it were going to set in would I be experiencing any symptoms yet?

Also, 24 hours after my first dose of T3 I have been experiencing a chronic headache that will not go away nomatter what I take to ease the pain, apparently this is a common side effect from using T3, will my body eventually get used to it or do I have to drop it altogther? 
I have been going to bed early with a headache and waking up feeling the same. 
So far this is the only negative side effect that I've experienced.

Unfortunately I happened to have stopped taking tren and proviron and at the same time I introduced T3 and extemestane so it's a little difficult to isolate the drug that is causing the headaches however I have a gut feeling it must be the T3.

I read that Taurine can help with the headaches but it was only an opinion from a forum member on another website.


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## BillHicksFan (Sep 18, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> Built is correct on this. In my personal experience (or rather my fuckup) I dosed way too high and suffered from lethargy, a chronically high heart rate (which scared the hell out of me) and edema. I couldnt wear certain shoes because I become so bloated. Gains stopped, my muscle tone went flat, and holy shit I was a mess. Well, to make a long story short, I tapered off, used some vitamin/mineral support (C, E, potassium and magnesium), went low carb for the two weeks and rested with feet above my head. It took a while, but more is not necessarily better.
> 
> As Built would say, stay under the radar and use it sparingly. Trust me, what I went through scared the be-jesus out of me.


 
Glad to hear you are fine now Juggs. 
Do you mind if I ask what dose you were taking and for how long?
How long were you running it before it became a problem? 
Did you experience headaches at all? 
I must admit that my hands have become a little puffy but that's about it. 

Have you used T3 since or have you decided that it is not for you?


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## Built (Sep 18, 2010)

Billhicksfan, you're fine. My .02 would be to go off the T3 for now, let your headache go away and your body settle down for a few weeks. Aromasin can cause headaches, too - and I'm not sure post-cycle, with low androgen levels, is the right time to introduce T3 unless it's in a very low dose. Maybe wait two weeks, then try 12.5 mcg a day for a week after that, see how you feel.


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## juggernaut (Sep 19, 2010)

BillHicksFan said:


> Glad to hear you are fine now Juggs.
> Do you mind if I ask what dose you were taking and for how long?
> How long were you running it before it became a problem?
> Did you experience headaches at all?
> ...



BHF, I will not disclose the amount, but it was exuberantly high. I was running it for quite a few months with no issues; had no headaches, but a general feeling of lethargy and exhaustion. 

I just started using it again at 12.5 mcg a day, and that's ALL I will take. I feel fine and have no bloating or other issues. Should that start again, I'll taper off and throw it out.


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## theCaptn' (Sep 19, 2010)

Isn't 12.5 below natural output?


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## Built (Sep 19, 2010)

Marquis du Gears said:


> Isn't 12.5 below natural output?



Yes it is. And it shouldn't be enough to dramatically change your own thyroid output, because it's a low-ish dose of a fast-acting hormone. What it should do is increase your free T3 to - or just slightly above - the high end of the normal range, which is what you want if you are to improve nutrient uptake, partitioning, protein synthesis, mitochondrial density, neural output and fast-twitch conversion of transitional fibres. Mild (read: borderline) hyperthyroidism appears to be advantageous. Frank hyperthyroidism is not.


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## BillHicksFan (Sep 19, 2010)

I've stopped taking T3 without tapering down as the constant headache is intollerable, this stuff is heavy duty. 
When I can finally think straight again I'll read through this thread and decide whether I should mess with this stuff again or not.
For all I know it could be the aromasin causing these headaches so I'll eliminate T3 first and see how I feel in a few days. My heart is racing and I'm really hot so I'm positive it's the T3. Might start with a smaller dose when I feel better.

Thanks for the advise


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## juggernaut (Sep 20, 2010)

BillHicksFan said:


> I've stopped taking T3 without tapering down as the constant headache is intollerable, this stuff is heavy duty.
> When I can finally think straight again I'll read through this thread and decide whether I should mess with this stuff again or not.
> For all I know it could be the aromasin causing these headaches so I'll eliminate T3 first and see how I feel in a few days. My heart is racing and I'm really hot so I'm positive it's the T3. Might start with a smaller dose when I feel better.
> 
> Thanks for the advise


Bill dont get me wrong, a little nudging of the thyroid, as Built has said is okay, but 50mcg or more of this stuff really messes up your system. I'd choose living a long happy life and feeling/looking good and battling fat loss over a quick and easy solution. The sacrifice just isnt worth dying over or living with long term side effects. 
I disagree with anyone who thinks the more is better approach is remotely better.


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## XYZ (Sep 20, 2010)

Built said:


> You may wish to reconsider the dosing. *50mcg is a replacement dose* - dosing thyroid is a lot like dosing test in that there is a threshold under which you won't shut down endogenous thyroid, and a feedback mechanism where reduced TSH will slow your own thyroid hormone production.
> 
> Also, while true that triiodothyronine enhances protein synthesis, chronic elevation leads to insulin resistance, in much the same way as chronic hypocaloric dieting leads to insulin resistance - the body's way of sparing muscle protein. I would NOT want to face bulking with induced insulin resistance.
> 
> ...


 
Is this a typo?


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## juggernaut (Sep 20, 2010)

CT said:


> Is this a typo?



oh shit...


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## jmorrison (Sep 20, 2010)

CT said:


> Is this a typo?



ruh roh.


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## Built (Sep 20, 2010)

CT said:


> Is this a typo?



No. Why do you ask?


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## juggernaut (Sep 20, 2010)

Built said:


> No. Why do you ask?



Aww shit...the tarantula sees the bug in her web....


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## XYZ (Sep 21, 2010)

Built said:


> No. Why do you ask?


 

Because here in post two you state that it's 25mcgs?

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/research-chemicals/92560-t3-dosage.html


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## juggernaut (Sep 21, 2010)

CT said:


> Because here in post two you state that it's 25mcgs?
> 
> http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/research-chemicals/92560-t3-dosage.html



Not to step on your moderating toes, but she was asked a question and showed several variants of how it can be run. Built offered her personal opinion of another citing where a very low dose is beneficial. I agree, especially since I saw the actual article written on the lowered dose. Full replacement takes place at 25mcg a day.BBers can use that higher dose, and I did plus more, and it gave me a shitload of serious sides. It isnt worth it.


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## XYZ (Sep 21, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> Not to step on your moderating toes, but she was asked a question and showed several variants of how it can be run. Built offered her personal opinion of another citing where a very low dose is beneficial. I agree, especially since I saw the actual article written on the lowered dose. Full replacement takes place at 25mcg a day.BBers can use that higher dose, and I did plus more, and it gave me a shitload of serious sides. It isnt worth it.


 
You're not stepping on any toes whatsoever.  I'm just very confused.  What she said, what she ment and what she typed contradicted completely, do you not agree?

Juggernaut, I have no issues with you or Built.  It seems however that your rush to defend her, your signature and such seems to favor her opinion, which is totally fine, but what I pointed out is exactly what was typed was it not?


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## jmorrison (Sep 21, 2010)

Hey Juggs, I was about to go on a 21 day T3 cycle on my mini cut and was going to go with:

Day 
1-3: 50mcg
4-7: 75mcg
8-14:100mcg
15-17:75mcg
18-21: 50mcg

Then taking 3 weeks off while on bulk, or possibly going down to 12.5 during that time, then back on the 3 week cut.

Gimme thoughts!


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## juggernaut (Sep 21, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> Hey Juggs, I was about to go on a 21 day T3 cycle on my mini cut and was going to go with:
> 
> Day
> 1-3: 50mcg
> ...


After my little experience with t3 gone awry, I'll give you my two cents; dont go near 100, it isnt worth it. Just use 50 to 75, and that's only for a limited time. Stay at around 50mcg until you're ready to come off and stop your cut. Taper down slowly.
On the bulk, use only 12.5


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## Built (Sep 21, 2010)

CT said:


> Is this a typo?





Built said:


> No. Why do you ask?





CT said:


> Because here in post two you state that it's 25mcgs?
> 
> http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/research-chemicals/92560-t3-dosage.html



Ah, I understand your concern. You're referring to this post, from two years ago where a mathematically challenged individual was asking liquid dosing for a cutting cycle:


godfather said:


> I just ordered a bottle of T3 and going to run it with either clen or albuterol and was wondering the how many mg's I should take a day. The concentration is 150 mcg/ml and the bottle contains 30 ml. I'm not real sure what a mcg is either so if anyone could help with it will be appreciated thanks.



I was worried he would accidentally over-dose, so I offered this:



Built said:


> Full replacement dose of T3 for an adult is in the range of 25 micrograms (mcg) per day.
> 
> What anabolic are you running with this?



CT, in an effort to address your concerns, I now offer you Father Guido Sarducci's "Five Minute University" on thyroid hormones. 

TSH, or "thyroid stimulating hormone" is a pituitary hormone that sends a message to your thyroid to start making, well, thyroid hormone. Rising TSH indicates your pituitary has to yell louder and louder to get a message to an underactive thyroid to step-up output. Low TSH indicates normal signalling of your pituitary, and in most cases, normal thyroid output, but it isn't a measure of thyroid function, but rather a measure of pituitary function. In some cases, TSH can be low (and hence, "normal") while thyroid hormones are also low. In these cases, TSH alone will miss what may be clinical hypothyroidism, which is why I'm always after people to get thyroid function properly tested - in other words, not just TSH. 

Under euthyroid conditions, TSH sends a signal to the thyroid, which responds by making thyroid hormones. The two main ones I'll mention here are liothyronine, AKA T4 and triiodothyronine, AKA T3. Normal healthy thyroid output is mostly T4, with a little T3 (euthyroid AKA "normal" thyroid output is a 14:1 ratio of T4:T3). 

Most human T3 is created peripherally via deiodinase enzymes in the tissues of the body, predominately muscle and liver via deiodinase enzymes D1 (found in muscle) and D2 (found in the liver) (Someone correct me if I got these backward, I’m doing this off the top of my head and don't have time to Google). About a quarter of circulating T3 in healthy normal individuals is deiodinated in the liver, and this is interesting because liver deiodinase requires both testosterone and a little T3 to "prime the pump", so to speak. 

Both thyroid output and peripheral deiodination are sensitive to environmental conditions within the body. For example, hypocaloric dieting reduces deiodinase activity as the body conserves energy by lowering T3 production. T3 increases during overfeeding, particularly of carbohydrate. When androgen status is low, liver deiodinase is low and T3 drops, which is why women on oral contraceptives sometimes complain of weight gain, depression, and of feeling cold all the time.  Even thyroid replacement dosing can be affected by oral contraceptive use for this reason. 

Most on thyroid replacement therapy take only Synthroid, AKA liothyronine, AKA T4, some of which is then peripherally converted to T3 via deiodinase enzymes, but others take combination T4/T3 therapy, or even T3 only: Cytomel. 

Thyroid replacement dosing is complicated, because HTPA feedback is involved. Initial dosing for replacement purposes should be minimal, creeping up the dose as TSH drops and with it, thyroid output. Once TSH is mostly suppressed, titration is easier (because thyroid output is now minimal) but still tricky because of absorption and half-life issues. T4 has a very long half-life (days/weeks) but T3 has a half-life measured in hours. 

Most thyroid hormone is bound in blood proteins (as are sex hormones with SHBG), but oral T4 (Synthroid) and oral T3 (Cytomel) are both "free" hormones - they can take a while to get bound up in these blood proteins; furthermore, T4 can take a while to deiodinate to T3. 

Replacement dosing is problematic because oral absorption of T4 (Synthroid) is between 41% and 79% of the dose, depending upon what else may have been ingested with the dose, while oral absorption of T3 (Cytomel) is 95% of the dose, regardless of food intake. Synthroid should ideally be taken an hour before and two hours after eating anything. Cytomel may be taken anytime. 

100 mcg Synthroid is not unheard of as a replacement dose. For some, replacement is higher; for others, lower, but a dose of between 100mcg and 200mcg is not uncommon for those on Synthroid (T4) therapy. 

With all that out of the way, there's the issue of hormone activity. Most sources suggest T3 has four times the activity of T4 in the body. This would suggest that 100mcg of Synthroid would be an equivalent dose to 25mcg of T3, right? The equivalents here in Cytomel (T3) would be 25mcg to 50mcg. Only it's not this simple. 

Remember the oral bioavailability issue I mentioned? Yep, it's still there, and it's a problem.  

Because only between 41% and 79% of oral T4 makes it in to the bloodstream, a 100mcg dose of Synthroid (T4) delivers between 41mcg and 79mcg of T4 to the bloodstream; the "equivalent" to this in T3 would be just over 10mcg - 20mcg (T4 multipled by 4 to find the amount of T3 required for the same activity level, and because of T3's  95% bioavailability issue, let's say 12.5mcg - 25mcg to be both safe, and easy to calculate).
For a 200mcg dose of Synthroid, the "equivalent" in Cytomel (T3) (and accommodating Cytomel's bioavailability as above) would be about 25mcg - 50mcg.

CT (and the others) - does this help?


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## unclem (Sep 21, 2010)

just eat 300 gr protein, carbs and enough cals and take 50- 75mcg t3 and youll be fine. nothing is in stone it depends on age , organ function at your age alot different factors. if u want to use it i would only use it for 3 weeks taper up and down. its easy i got my schedule on the wall in my bedroom. i also use clen on bulk cycle, no biggie. 2 wks on 2 wks off. works for most people.


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## Built (Sep 21, 2010)

jugg, describe your dosing over the time you were on. How long were you on 100mcg a day?


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## juggernaut (Sep 21, 2010)

unclem said:


> just eat 300 gr protein, carbs and enough cals and take 50- 75mcg t3 and youll be fine. nothing is in stone it depends on age , organ function at your age alot different factors. if u want to use it i would only use it for 3 weeks taper up and down. its easy i got my schedule on the wall in my bedroom. i also use clen on bulk cycle, no biggie. 2 wks on 2 wks off. works for most people.



Hey m, hope all is well. I've read several articles where tapering isnt necessary unless you're getting off it completely. I may be wrong, but I do feel like I've learned a lot since my foulup. 

Built, you continue to amaze me with the knowledge you own. I just clipped and pasted your answer into google docs.


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## BillHicksFan (Sep 23, 2010)

Turns out it was the Aromasin knocking me around and not the T3 after all so you were right Built as you did mention that it could be causing headaches. It took some time but the headaches have finally gone so I'm back dosing the T3. 
Out of all the compounds I've used during the last 2 months it was just the aromasin that caused an issue, makes me dread pct even more.

Anyway, thanks to all for their input to this thread, it turned out to be very informative.


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## unclem (Sep 24, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> Hey m, hope all is well. I've read several articles where tapering isnt necessary unless you're getting off it completely. I may be wrong, but I do feel like I've learned a lot since my foulup.
> 
> Built, you continue to amaze me with the knowledge you own. I just clipped and pasted your answer into google docs.


 
 no biggie, some people do it either way, just to get used to the drug. hope ur ok with all the stuiff good luck jugger.


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## juggernaut (Sep 24, 2010)

Well, here's the thing; I resumed using it this week and the bloat came back. I'm off it for a good 3 or 4 months. My body just doesnt tolerate well. So, it's in lockup. Ahhh such is life.


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