# My Thoughts On Training--- Matt Reynolds



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 17, 2006)

My thoughts on training... by Matt Reynolds
Virtually everything you???ve ever read from a bodybuilding magazine is heresy and should be regarded as not worth the paper it was printed on. The programs written by the so called ???superstars??? of the bodybuilding world were actually ghost written by some guy in a cubicle who doesn???t know a thing about proper training, programming, exercise phys, or periodization. If, by chance the program was actually written by the ???superstar??? you can rest easy as long as you are one of the most genetically gifted people in history AND you are on such a ridiculous amount of drugs that you have to tan to hide the yellowing of your skin due to liver failure.

The fact is that big, strong guys are a dime a dozen, and many of them get that way in spite of their training knowledge than because of it.

I know what I???m talking about in the world of training not because I???m the biggest or the strongest (although, at 270lbs and an 800 squat, 600 bench, and 700 deadlift I can hold my own), and not because I know the most about exercise phys (though I can hold my own there too), but because I have trained with and become friends with best. I have trained at Westside Barbell Club, with the Metal Militia, talk on a continual basis with the best strength coaches in the nation and world-wide, and the training methods I prescribe have been tested in the gym on literally hundreds and hundreds of regular, everyday athletes and shown to work. Period.

So here???s what I can stand before you today and say with great conviction what I know to be true about training:

1) I believe in general that the majority of people don???t work hard enough. If there???s one thing we can learn from the old Eastern Bloc countries, it???s that they worked harder than us, and that primarily, is why they always beat us in the Olympics. Work hard in the gym (even if your program sucks) and you will be rewarded.

2) I also believe that most people don???t put near enough emphasis on lower body and core work. The key to getting big is full squats and deadlifts. If you are looking at your routine and you see that you are training upper body 3 or 4 days per week and lower body once, you have a serious problem. The majority of athletes should live and die in the squat rack.

3) And for that matter, EVERYONE???S program should be centered around these exercises: Full Squat, Deadlifts (or cleans or both), heavy barbell rows, bench press, and Standing Barbell Military/Push Presses. Add pull ups, barbell curls, dips, heavy abdominal work, and some core work (back extensions, reverse hypers, or glute hams) and that should make up 95-100% of the total number of exercises you do. The most effective training is simple and hard.

4) Training a bodypart once per week (and one bodypart per day) is one of the worst ways to train. It will create a rut in your training that you can???t dig out of.

Training a bodypart twice per week has always been shown to be superior to once per week training of a muscle. The problem is with the influx of "Weider Principles" and other bodybuilding trash that's posted in the magazines, the masses have been stuck in the one-bodypart-per-day-per-week rut for years.

No strength athletes train a bodypart once per week. Most olympic lifters, powerlifters, and strongman train their backs at least four times per week, and last time I checked, they weren't lacking in back width.

The simple fact is that training using an upper/lower split or a push/pull split or 3 full body days will provide double or triple the training stimulus than training a muscle once per week and thus, if done correctly will lead to much, much greater growth and strength gains.


5) Training to near muscular failure has shown to induce identical hypertrophy gains than training to all out muscular failure. The reason you guys can???t train a muscle more than once per week is because you are destroying it when you do train it. Learn to hit or miss that last rep and then call it done. Don???t do ridiculous amounts of forced reps, negatives, etc. until you literally can???t move the muscle. Take it to near failure and then your muscles will recover enough so that you can train them again in 3-4 days.

Understand that there is a huge difference in training to near failure and not training hard. I would never advocate to not train hard. Actually, quite the opposite ??? try to squat for 5 sets of 5 reps using only 10lbs less than your five rep max. That???s absolutely brutal. But when you get done, don???t go to the leg press machine and keep pounding out sets and stripping off weight until you literal can???t do a single leg press with only the sled. That???s absurd, and you can???t recover from it in 3 days.

6) Squat at least below parallel every time. Are you kidding me? I can???t believe some people are still quarter squatting and saying that riding a squat all the way to the ground is bad for your knees. Learn the facts. Stopping at or above parallel puts much more strain on your knees than going ass to grass. Plus going all the way down in an Olympic style back squat will put more mass on you than any other exercise. Period.

7) Isolation exercises are absolute crap. 90% of your routine should be made up of full squats, deadlifts or cleans, bench press, standing overhead press, heavy barbell rows, pull-ups, dips, and core work (abs, glute ham raises, back extensions, reverse hypers). Isolation exercises and machines are the worst thing that ever happened to the weight training world.

8) Quit using pyramid rep schemes like 10,8,6,4,2 ??? Instead, your time would be better served doing boring (but effective) gut busting sets of 5x5 or 4x8-10 using the SAME WEIGHT for each set. They WILL produce better results than the pyramid scheme. BTW, check your ego at the door when you do these.

9) I???ll quote my good friend, Glenn Pendlay (the best S&C coach in the nation) for the next one:

"Most athletes do too many exercises. Many times they look over other peoples programs like they are at a buffet. They pick a little of this and a little of that from a variety of programs, and end up with something useless. People think you have to train each muscle with a different specific exercise. Many guys in college athletics would do better if they would just randomly slash off half of what they are doing, and then work twice as hard on the half that is left."

10) Another of my favorites from Glenn:

"im so sick and tired of hearing people who just started training who say they cant gain weight. jeez ive heard this crap so often. every day it seems i have some stupid kid ask me about how to gain weight... in resturants, at the grocery store, yo uname it. for some reason there seems to be a sign on my back or something. usually i know its worthless to talk to them, sometimes i actually waste my time. talked to a kid at the golden corral a couple of days ago. took almost an hour when i should have been enjoying my all you can eat steak night... 3 days later i see him in the gym when i just happened to go in to talk to a friend who i knew was there... kid was there doing preacher curls. said hi to me, then said well i talked to my friend about what you said and he said he tried it once and overtrained so i decided to do this thing i read about... on the other hand about 6 months ago i talked to this 6' tall, 150lb kid who wanted to know about getting stronger. kid had done well in judo, won some titles, also after that had done cycling, turned pro then quit a year later, quite a good road racer. he actually did what i told him i guess, about 3 months after i saw him the first time i saw hiim again, he weighed about 185... he wanted to try olympic weightlifting so i let him train with the team i coach. now hes weighing 204 and clean and jerking about 300lbs, 54lbs gained in 6 months. no drugs. olympic squat from 175lbs to 385lbs, front squat from 150lbs to 330lbs. hell be a good lifter, has a good work ethic. needs to be 240 and fairly lean, will compete eventually in the 231 pound class. will take about another 12-15 months i suppose. why is a kid like this the exception and not the rule? why will kids do the same old thing for years in the abscense of results, and not try anything new? what the hell is wrong with people. there is a gym in town, i know the owner so i go and talk to him sometimes, there are all these kids in there, skinny little ****s, doing curls. they never progress, you see the same faces one year to the next, same bodies too."

11) Ultra slow reps or TUT is, for the most part completely worthless. Will it work? Yes. But the total amount of work that one can complete is much lower when utilizing slow reps. Just go natural. Don???t try to be super fast, and bouncy, and don???t try to go ultra slow. Just do it naturally and controlled.

12) ???The burn???, ???the pump??? and ???the feel??? have nothing to do with the effectiveness of an exercise. Yes, even I have been caught on upper body days looking at myself in the mirror when I???m all blown up, but that has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the last exercise. You do hammer strength bench presses and flyes for sets of 20 and I???ll do heavy barbell bench presses and deep dips. One of us will ???feel the pump??? more and the other one will grow.


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## RippedNYLifter (Feb 17, 2006)

13) Likewise, delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) also gives no clue as to the effectiveness of a workout. It just means A) you have a ton of microtrauma in a muscle or a lot of lactic acid/ waste products. Congratulations.

14) ???Core stability training??? is not done on a swiss ball or a stability board. It???s done by pulling heavy deadlifts, standing overhead presses, full squats, heavy barbell rows, heavy farmer???s walks, Atlas stones, tire flipping, reverse hypers, heavy back extensions, glute ham raises, and heavy abdominal work.

15) A good gym has nothing to do with how nice the machines are or if they have a pool or tanning beds or even if it???s air conditioned. A good gym smells like a mix of body odor and liniment and supplies their members with a big box of chalk.

Kelly Baggett, one of the best strength coaches his take as well on how to get bigger

This is not to attack anyone but I'd be willing to bet a lot more natural muscle has been built using the recommnedations of Matt and Glenn over the years then all the complicated bodybuilding schemes out there. The problem with bodybuilders is they try to overcomplicate everything and lose site of the big picture.....that's making strength gains in the gym on basic movements along with scale weight increases on a week to week basis. Now you can complicate that as much as you want but those are the only 2 things it takes to get big. It doesn't take any sort've fancy specialized training routines and special diets. If more people would spend more time in dark stinky ass gyms worrying about putting weight on the very basic movements and spend more time eating in high volume (note the golden corral reference) with an emphasis on gaining scale weight then a lot more muscle would be built.
For every bodybuilder who has success building a physique naturally I'll show you at least 20 who don't get jack **** in the way of results because they sit around with their thumb up their butt worrying about this and worrying about that and basing everything off of their "pump"...worrying about the "feel" of this exercise and trying to trash the muscle every workout without any regards to periodization and failign to realize that if they would've just strived to put 50 lbs on their squat and 15 lbs on the scale their problems would be taken care of......They go starving themselves to death on boiled chicken and broccoli while spending $300 per month in supplements thinking they can get "bigger" and "smaller" at the same time spending 5 years wasting time not gaining 10 lbs of scale weight all while looking at strength athletes with their nose up in the air when what they don't realize is that fat powerlifter they like to make fun of has actually put on 50 lbs of muscle in the last year and he could spend 3 months stripping that fat off and hand you your ass and balls in a bodybuilding contest simply because he trained very simple, focused on strength gains and most importnatly wasn't afraid to sit down at the dinner table and do some serious eating.

Give me 2 twin brothers one who hangs around with and reads bodybuilding related info for a year and another who hangs around with and trains at a powerlifting gym both without steroids and after that year is over let's see which one builds more muscle. Nine times out of 10 I'll take the powerlifter.

Having said that a strength athletes routine may not be 100% optimal for a bodybuilder but there are a lot of things people could learn from strength trainers.
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## P-funk (Feb 17, 2006)

> 1) I believe in general that the majority of people don???t work hard enough. If there???s one thing we can learn from the old Eastern Bloc countries, it???s that they worked harder than us, and that primarily, is why they always beat us in the Olympics. Work hard in the gym (even if your program sucks) and you will be rewarded.


.


that is fucking bull shit.  the europeans are on so much drugs!

1) why is it that every year the IOC hands out boat loads of bans for european lifters and entire teams.  yet, no american ever gets banned or fails a test?

2) the americas were dominant until all of a sudden the Russians (and then Bulgarians) started dominating (and not by small margins)...why do you think that is?  they all of a sudden got better?  FUCK NO!  They all of a sudden got drugs!

3) in european countries they particulary choose lifters at young ages (average being 10yrs old) to breed them into olympic champions.  By the age of 18-20 they are primed to be Junior World Champions and already elite after lifting for 8-10 years.  While americans play sports like football and baseball and basketball and don't begin their training until they are 16-18!!  Big difference.

4) The European lifters only have weightlifting!  That is what they do.  I know a guy that was a junior champion for Turkey.  When he wins a medal they give his family a house.  When he wins another they give his family more money and more status.  When he looses they take these things away.  He has insentive to lift.  That is all he does there.  Lifting is his job.  It is very easy to train 2 times a day when that is all you have to do.  You have no outside stressor, such as a full time job (like the american lifters do) and they have access to all the drugs.  USA weightlifting has the strictest testing policy of any country for their lifters.


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## GFR (Feb 17, 2006)

The Americas are 100% natural


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## P-funk (Feb 17, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> The Americas are 100% natural



I don't think they are.  BUT, I don't think they are taking as much as their European counterparts and they are much more heavily tested then any other country.


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## RippedNYLifter (Feb 17, 2006)

Why make this about steroids?


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## P-funk (Feb 17, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> Why make this about steroids?




I'm not.  I am just stating that his first point is a little skewed, that's all.  Also, I am not making it just about steroids.  There are 4 other points up there about why they have an edge.


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## GFR (Feb 17, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> I don't think they are.  BUT, I don't think they are taking as much as their European counterparts and they are much more heavily tested then any other country.


I think they have better Doctors helping them with cheating.....drug testing is a joke.


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## P-funk (Feb 17, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I think they have better Doctors helping them with cheating.....drug testing is a joke.




maybe so.  But, you are basically saying that there is no strong athletes in the USA then.  I mean, our best heavyewight ever (Shane Hammon) was only good enough for 8th place in the world (and that is not counting the fact that Ronnie Weller was not competiting in the last olympics).

Also, like I said, there are 4 other points I made up there about why they have an edge.  It isn't just the steroids.


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## GFR (Feb 17, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> maybe so.  But, you are basically saying that there is no strong athletes in the USA then.  I mean, our best heavyewight ever (Shane Hammon) was only good enough for 8th place in the world (and that is not counting the fact that Ronnie Weller was not competiting in the last olympics).
> 
> Also, like I said, there are 4 other points I made up there about why they have an edge.  It isn't just the steroids.


Eastern Europeans have better power genetics IMO. And 2 of your 4 points were drugs....the other two make little or no difference IMO.


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## shiznit2169 (Feb 17, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Eastern Europeans have better power genetics IMO. And 2 of your 4 points were drugs....the other two make little or no difference IMO.



A European lifting 2x a day everyday since the age of 8 as his life with big rewards on the line such as being awarded a new house, money, status, reputation compared to the American who has to work a job and support himself not solely on olympic training and starting around age 15-16 is a big difference to me.


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## shiznit2169 (Feb 17, 2006)

and to say europeans have better "power genetics" is irrelevant.


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## min0 lee (Feb 17, 2006)

> 6) Squat at least below parallel every time. Are you kidding me? I can???t believe some people are still quarter squatting and saying that riding a squat all the way to the ground is bad for your knees. Learn the facts. Stopping at or above parallel puts much more strain on your knees than going ass to grass. Plus going all the way down in an Olympic style back squat will put more mass on you than any other exercise. Period.


 
  Amen brother.


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## GFR (Feb 17, 2006)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> A European lifting 2x a day everyday since the age of 8 as his life with big rewards on the line such as being awarded a new house, money, status, reputation compared to the American who has to work a job and support himself not solely on olympic training and starting around age 15-16 is a big difference to me.



It's just an excuse losers use when they get their ass handed to them by these guys........hell I was in my best shape when I was working 50+ hours a week.......excuses, excuses, excuses


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## GFR (Feb 17, 2006)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> and to say europeans have better "power genetics" is irrelevant.


Not at all son......look up the top 100 mens times in the 100m dash......you will find that all 100 are from the same continent. 
If you ignore genetics then you are a fool.


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## WantItBad (Feb 17, 2006)

4) Training a bodypart once per week (and one bodypart per day) is one of the worst ways to train. It will create a rut in your training that you can???t dig out of.

Training a bodypart twice per week has always been shown to be superior to once per week training of a muscle. The problem is with the influx of "Weider Principles" and other bodybuilding trash that's posted in the magazines, the masses have been stuck in the one-bodypart-per-day-per-week rut for years.

No strength athletes train a bodypart once per week. Most olympic lifters, powerlifters, and strongman train their backs at least four times per week, and last time I checked, they weren't lacking in back width.

The simple fact is that training using an upper/lower split or a push/pull split or 3 full body days will provide double or triple the training stimulus than training a muscle once per week and thus, if done correctly will lead to much, much greater growth and strength gains.




What are your thoughts on this?


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## P-funk (Feb 17, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> It's just an excuse losers use when they get their ass handed to them by these guys........hell I was in my best shape when I was working 50+ hours a week.......excuses, excuses, excuses




whatever man.  that is not an excuse that is the truth.  the kid i know that was a junior chapion in turkey will tell you the same thing.  now that he lives in the US he barely has anytime to lift ever.  his lifts (while still amazing) are way off what they were when he lived over there.

50+ hours a week....didn't see you win any world championships so your training must not have been that great.


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## GFR (Feb 17, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> whatever man.  that is not an* excuse* that is the truth.  the kid i know that was a junior chapion in turkey will tell you the same thing.  now that he lives in the US he barely has anytime to lift ever.  his lifts (while still amazing) are way off what they were when he lived over there.
> *
> 50+ hours a week....didn't see you win any world championships so your training must not have been that great*.


Nice flaming P......good to see you bring a disagreement down to that level........guess you proved my point.


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## shiznit2169 (Feb 17, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Not at all son......look up the top 100 mens times in the 100m dash......you will find that all 100 are from the same continent.
> If you ignore genetics then you are a fool.



we're talking about olympic lifting here .. not the 100m dash

and you say you used to work 50+ hours a week and u were still in your best shape? I wonder how well u would have done if u were an olympic lifter .. probably not too well


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## GFR (Feb 17, 2006)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> we're talking about olympic lifting here .. not the 100m dash
> 
> and you say you used to work 50+ hours a week and u were still in your best shape? I wonder how well u would have done if u were an olympic lifter .. probably not too well


We are talking about genetics son...

No I would have sucked at Olympic lifting and I have no problem saying that.....as I have said here 100x......all I could ever do is raw bench.


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## GFR (Feb 17, 2006)

Where can you make millions, get tons of pussy, gain great fame...ect in American sports?????? 

Very simple: Football, Baceball, Basketball, Hockey.........that is why most top athletes here don't waste their time in obscure sports like Olympic lifting or Bodybuilding. The idea that it is anything more than that is absurd.


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## IRON MAN (Feb 17, 2006)

The article is wrong on 3 things. Overall a good article.

1. Squatting to the ground is easier on the knees. NOT TRUE!!! Deep squats are harder on the lower back and knees.

2. Most people aren't working hard enough. NOT SO!!! Most people are not working smart enough but many are working hard.

3. Americans aren't taking as many drugs as the Eastern bloc boys. I DOUBT THAT!!! But I do think it was true before steroids became popularized in America.

NOTE: Most of the rest of his article falls directly in line with my IRONMAN "HIT." I was rather surprised to have read yet another training program resembling mine.


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## CowPimp (Feb 17, 2006)

I certainly agree with the statement that people don't work hard enough.  Not even just lifters, but so many people go in and out of the gym without ever breaking a fucking sweat.  How can you do cardio and not break a sweat?  Up the intensity you pussy.  How can you leave 8 reps in the tank when doing quarter squats.  Start doing some work!

Maybe my current gym is just really bad, but there are a lot of slackers there.


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## P-funk (Feb 18, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Nice flaming P......good to see you bring a disagreement down to that level........guess you proved my point.




I'm not flaming.  I am making a point.  The fact that you were in the shape of your lifewhile working 50+ hours has nothing to do with anything.  It is completly anecdotal and has nothing to do with elite lifters or elite athletes.


> Very simple: Football, Baceball, Basketball, Hockey.........that is why most top athletes here don't waste their time in obscure sports like Olympic lifting or Bodybuilding. The idea that it is anything more than that is absurd.




agree 100%.  Hence the reason I said the kids in our country don't start lifting until they are 17 or 18.





> I certainly agree with the statement that people don't work hard enough. Not even just lifters, but so many people go in and out of the gym without ever breaking a fucking sweat. How can you do cardio and not break a sweat? Up the intensity you pussy. How can you leave 8 reps in the tank when doing quarter squats. Start doing some work!
> 
> Maybe my current gym is just really bad, but there are a lot of slackers there.



I agree with the fact that the american public is just lazy as hell.


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## Dale Mabry (Feb 18, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Not at all son......look up the top 100 mens times in the 100m dash......you will find that all 100 are from the same continent.
> If you ignore genetics then you are a fool.




In the top 10, 2 were from North America, 3 from the Island of Jamaica, 2 from Europe, and 3 from Africa, can't get more split than that.  So there are 3 continenets and an island in the top 10, hardly everyone from the top 100 is from the same continent.  And don't give me they are black, which I am sure is your next point.


1. 	(1.) 	Justin GATLIN  	82 	USA 	1405
2. 	(2.) 	Aziz ZAKARI  	76 	GHA 	1353
3. 	(3.) 	Dwight THOMAS  	80 	JAM 	1340
4. 	(4.) 	Asafa POWELL  	82 	JAM 	1333
5. 	(6.) 	Francis OBIKWELU  	78 	POR 	1325
6. 	(7.) 	Leonard SCOTT  	80 	USA 	1322
7. 	(8.) 	Kim COLLINS  	76 	SKN 	1321
8. 	(9.) 	Marc BURNS  	83 	TRI 	1319
9. 	(5.) 	Ronald POGNON  	82 	FRA 	1316
10. 	(10.) 	Michael FRATER  	82 	JAM


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## RippedNYLifter (Feb 18, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> The article is wrong on 3 things. Overall a good article.
> 
> 1. Squatting to the ground is easier on the knees. NOT TRUE!!! Deep squats are harder on the lower back and knees.


You're wrong hmm... let me see here wheres that link.... Well, we'll start off with this:
There are several schools of thought on squat depth. Many misinformed individuals caution against squatting below parallel, stating that this is hazardous to the knees. Nothing could be further from the truth. (2) Stopping at or above parallel places direct stress on the knees, whereas a deep squat will transfer the load to the hips,(3) which are capable of handling a greater amount of force than the knees should ever be exposed to. Studies have shown that the squat produces lower peak tibeo-femoral(stress at the knee joint) compressive force than both the leg press and the leg extension.(4) For functional strength, one should descend as deeply as possible, and under control. (yes, certain individuals can squat in a ballistic manner, but they are the exception rather than the rule). The further a lifter descends, the more the hamstrings are recruited, and proper squatting displays nearly twice the hamstring involvement of the leg press or leg extension. (5,6) and as one of the functions of the hamstring is to protect the patella tendon (the primary tendon involved in knee extension) during knee extension through a concurrent firing process, the greatest degree of hamstring recruitment should provide the greatest degree of protection to the knee joint. (7) When one is a powerlifter, the top surface of the legs at the hip joint must descend to a point below the top surface of the legs at the knee joint.

Knee injuries are one of the most commonly stated problems that come from squatting, however, this is usually stated by those who do not know how to squat. A properly performed squat will appropriately load the knee joint, which improves congruity by increasing the compressive forces at the knee joint. (8,(9) which improves stability, protecting the knee against shear forces. As part of a long-term exercise program, the squat, like other exercises, will lead to increased collagen turnover and hypertrophy of ligaments. (10,11) At least one study has shown that international caliber weightlifters and powerlifters experience less clinical or symptomatic arthritis. (12) Other critics of the squat have stated that it decreases the stability of the knees, yet nothing could be further from the truth. Studies have shown that the squat will increase knee stability by reducing joint laxity, as well as decrease anterior-posterior laxity and translation. (13,14) The squat is, in fact, being used as a rehabilitation exercise for many types of knee injuries, including ACL repair. (15)

REFERENCES;2 Ariel, B.G., 1974. Biomechanical analysis of the knee joint during deep knee bends with a heavy load. Biomechanics. IV(1):44-52.

3 High- and low-bar squatting techniques during weight-training. Wretenberg P; Feng Y; Arborelius UP, Med Sci Sports Exerc, 28(2):218-24 1996 Feb

4 An analytical model of the knee for estimation of internal forces during exercise. Zheng N; Fleisig GS; Escamilla RF; Barrentine SW, J Biomech, 31(10):963-7 1998 Oct

5 Biomechanics of the knee during closed kinetic chain and open kinetic chain exercises. Escamilla RF; Fleisig GS; Zheng N; Barrentine SW; Wilk KE; Andrews JR Med Sci Sports Exerc, 30(4):556-69 1998 Apr

6 A comparison of tibiofemoral joint forces and electromyographic activity during open and closed kinetic chain exercises. Wilk KE; Escamilla RF; Fleisig GS; Barrentine SW; Andrews JR; Boyd ML Am J Sports Med, 24(4):518-27 1996 Jul-Aug

7 Chandler TJ and Stone MH. (1991) The squat exercise in athletic conditioning: a review of the literature. NSCA Journal. 13(5): 58-60.
8 Hsieh, H. and P.S. Walker. 1976. Stabilizing mechanisms of the loaded and unloaded knee joint. Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery. 58A(1):87-93.

9 Uhl, T.L. and P.V. Loubert. 1990. Axial compression effect on anterior displacement of the in vivo tibeofemoral joint. Master???s thesis, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI.

10 Shankman, G. 1989. Training guidelines for strengthening the injured knee: basic concepts for the strength coach. NSCA Journal. 11(4):32-42.

11 Tipton, C.M., Matthes, R.D., Maynard, J.A. and Carey, R.A. 1975. The influence of physical activity on ligaments and tendons. Medicine and Science in Sports. 7(3):165-175.

12 Herrick, R.T., Stone, M.H. and Herrick, S. 1983. Injuries in strength-power activities. Powerlifting USA. 7(5):7-9.

13 Panariello, R.A., Backus, S.I., and Parker, J.W. 1994. The effect of the squat exercise on anterior-posterior knee translation in professional football players. American Journal of Sports Medicine. 22(6):768-773.

14 Steiner, M.E., Grana, W.A., Chillag, K., and Schelberg-Karnes, E. The effect of exercise on anterior-posterior knee laxity. 1986. American Journal of Sports Medicine. 14(1): 24-29.

15 Palmitier, R.A., Kai-Nan, A., Scott, S.G., and Chao, E.Y.S. 1991. Kinetic chain exercise in knee rehabilitation. Sports Medicine. 11(6):402-413.


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## 33ecooks (Feb 18, 2006)

RippedNYlifter - any suggestions if someone can't squat anymore at all (2 knee surgeries last 5 years ). Lost alot on the leg area because of that and trying to find something that can give me similar leg build.


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## RippedNYLifter (Feb 18, 2006)

Lunges, leg press, stay away from leg extensions, or you'll be heading for another surgery. Its really hard to choose exercises without squats because most leg exercises are squats or have a squating motion. Front squat, back squat, hack squat, etc. the list of different squats go on


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## LoadedBats (Feb 18, 2006)

#4, 5, and 8 are some points he makes that I 100% agree with.  i agree with a lot of what he is stating, (I'm not getting into the why the east is stronger than us arguement because i could give a shit less) but mainly these points because i have argued for years that pyramiding sets just do not make sense to me, nor does training to absolute all out failure once a week.


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## P-funk (Feb 18, 2006)

33ecooks said:
			
		

> RippedNYlifter - any suggestions if someone can't squat anymore at all (2 knee surgeries last 5 years ). Lost alot on the leg area because of that and trying to find something that can give me similar leg build.



what were the injuries?

what were the surgeries?

How long ago were they done?

Did you actually go to rehab and do something to try and bring them back to normal strength?


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## Dale Mabry (Feb 18, 2006)

33ecooks said:
			
		

> RippedNYlifter - any suggestions if someone can't squat anymore at all (2 knee surgeries last 5 years ).



Yeah, stop being a pussy.  

I find it hard to believe you can't squat at all.  Do you have a telescopic arm to pic up shit you drop?  If your doctor told you specifically not to squat then don't, but I would imagine you are in a wheelchair if that is the case.  Do you have no ACL or something?


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## P-funk (Feb 18, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Yeah, stop being a pussy.
> 
> I find it hard to believe you can't squat at all.  Do you have a telescopic arm to pic up shit you drop?  If your doctor told you specifically not to squat then don't, but I would imagine you are in a wheelchair if that is the case.  Do you have no ACL or something?




yea, for the most part, people coming out of knee surgeries are told to squat and do things to gain strength back to the muscles that extend the knee and get them firing again.  In most cases I have seen, it is more hazerdous NOT to train then to train it through a pain free ROM and try and increase that ROM to a functional level as this will help to prevent further injury.


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## GFR (Feb 18, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> In the top 10, 2 were from North America, 3 from the Island of Jamaica, 2 from Europe, and 3 from Africa, can't get more split than that.  So there are 3 continenets and an island in the top 10, hardly everyone from the top 100 is from the same continent.  And don't give me they are black, which I am sure is your next point.
> 
> 
> 1.     (1.)     Justin GATLIN      82     USA     1405
> ...


 Nice try bud but *you know what I'm talking about*......I can not say it openly here without breaking one of the rules. 

Where were all their great great great grand parents born?????

Stop circle talking son


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## P-funk (Feb 18, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Where were all their great great great grand parents born?????




   

only foreman.....


well, there is no way to argue with him now.


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## CowPimp (Feb 18, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Nice try bud but *you know what I'm talking about*......I can not say it openly here without breaking one of the rules.
> 
> Where were all their great great great grand parents born?????
> 
> Stop circle talking son



If you go back far enough, we're all from Africa anyway.  Your point is moot.


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## P-funk (Feb 18, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> If you go back far enough, we're all from Africa anyway.  Your point is moot.




that is why it was funny.


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## GFR (Feb 18, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> If you go back far enough, we're all from Africa anyway.  Your point is moot.


That is one of the few stupid comments you have made here....


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## shiznit2169 (Feb 18, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> That is one of the few stupid comments you have made here....



so should we all hail foreman and reply "true story" to every post which is considered beyond stupid in my book?

 

oh mighty one, the master of the ironmagazine forums, the man who can never lose


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## GFR (Feb 18, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> that is why it was funny.


You could say we all are decendents of Prebionts


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## Dale Mabry (Feb 18, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> You could say we all are decendents of Prebionts



RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## GFR (Feb 18, 2006)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> so should we all hail foreman and reply "true story" to every post which is considered beyond stupid in my book?
> 
> 
> 
> oh mighty one, the master of the ironmagazine forums, the man who can never lose


CowPimp is correct most of the time and always has an interesting comment to make on any subject......unfortunately you are the anti-cowpimp


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## shiznit2169 (Feb 18, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> CowPimp is correct most of the time and always has an interesting comment to make on any subject......unfortunately you are the anti-cowpimp



oh i'm so sorry mr. foremanrules, i didn't know i have to read hundreds of books and study weight lifting every day of my life when i am a freshman in college focusing on school and other important things. Weightlifting is just a part of my life, not an everyday chore regarding reading and studying and learning from the best. I wish i had the mind cowpimp has but i think he is considered one of the elite members here and that would make you anti-cowpimp as well don't you think? By the time i hit your age old man, i will be so far ahead of you than you ever will be. I could just go on but i'll let you soak it all in while it's true. Enjoy it now while it lasts.


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## GFR (Feb 18, 2006)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> oh i'm so sorry mr. foremanrules, i didn't know i have to read hundreds of books and study weight lifting every day of my life when i am a freshman in college focusing on school and other important things. Weightlifting is just a part of my life, not an everyday chore regarding reading and studying and learning from the best. I wish i had the mind cowpimp has but i think he is considered one of the elite members here and that would make you anti-cowpimp as well don't you think? By the time i hit your age old man, i will be so far ahead of you than you ever will be. I could just go on but i'll let you soak it all in while it's true. Enjoy it now while it lasts.


Good for you, enjoy college and spend some time with the ladies


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## 33ecooks (Feb 18, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> what were the injuries?
> 
> what were the surgeries?
> 
> ...



Rehabed for 12 weeks, glucosimine, shark-cartlidge, ever since. I can do just about anything else for legs except squat. Everytime I can feel it immediately once I get to that 3/4 point and lower. Shid sucks cause I still work them hard but nothing replaces the gains from squating. 

1st 2001 - one to remove parts of a torn MCL (also had a torn PCL) however the Dr who performed the surgery told me I didn't need my PCL repaired. So I continued playing sports and lifting and my knee started hurting worse than before. I found out I had about a dime size section of cartildge worn down so basically had severe arthritis. 

2nd surgery 2003 - (4 hours) fixed my PCL (used patella and tendon from hamstring) and cleaned out more MCL. Supposed to (optional) go back and get some sort of cartlidge transplant from a sample they took and cultured but told me I'd be down for about 4-6months on crutches.


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## Dale Mabry (Feb 18, 2006)

Do you currently have no cartilidge in one of your knees?

Are squats contraindicated by your doc, or do you just start to feel them and decided not to do them?  IMO, even squats with little or no weight are better than any of the assistance crap.  The only other things I would highly recommend would be lunges or step ups and I imagine they would hurt your knees worse.


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## Doublebase (Feb 18, 2006)

I'm a pussy lifter.  I did cardio this morning and barely broke a sweat.  I hate cardio.  It sucks.  I'm fine if I'm playing basketball or raquetball but running on a treadmill blows.  I ran a 1.5 miles.  My heartrate was up to 171.  I'm 24 183lbs.  It takes me awhile to sweat normally.  I stopped because I was so bored.


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## min0 lee (Feb 18, 2006)

Doublebase said:
			
		

> I'm a pussy lifter. I did cardio this morning and barely broke a sweat. I hate cardio. It sucks. I'm fine if I'm playing basketball or raquetball but running on a treadmill blows. I ran a 1.5 miles. My heartrate was up to 171. I'm 24 183lbs. It takes me awhile to sweat normally. I stopped because I was so bored.


  Are you in the right tread?   I'm lost?


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## 33ecooks (Feb 18, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Do you currently have no cartilidge in one of your knees?



A dime sized hole in the right knee. I would have been kewl if the 1st doc would have fixed the PCL during the 1st surgery. Without the PCL and me still being active and running I basically rubbed away the cartlidge. 

I guess I need to get out of that "everybodys" watching me state if I went super light on squats. So I'll try that out..


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## Doublebase (Feb 18, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> Are you in the right tread?   I'm lost?



cowpimp was talking about people in his gym being pussy lifters.  I was just responding to that.  I shouldn't started a new thread.  Sorry.


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## min0 lee (Feb 18, 2006)

Doublebase said:
			
		

> cowpimp was talking about people in his gym being pussy lifters. I was just responding to that. I shouldn't started a new thread. Sorry.


 
Ohhh, I See.....


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## Tough Old Man (Feb 18, 2006)

I think you all suck and have no idea what trhe fuck your talking about..LOL.


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## IRON MAN (Feb 18, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> You're wrong hmm... let me see here wheres that link.... Well, we'll start off with this:
> There are several schools of thought on squat depth. Many misinformed individuals caution against squatting below parallel, stating that this is hazardous to the knees. Nothing could be further from the truth. (2) Stopping at or above parallel places direct stress on the knees, whereas a deep squat will transfer the load to the hips,(3) which are capable of handling a greater amount of force than the knees should ever be exposed to. Studies have shown that the squat produces lower peak tibeo-femoral(stress at the knee joint) compressive force than both the leg press and the leg extension.(4) For functional strength, one should descend as deeply as possible, and under control. (yes, certain individuals can squat in a ballistic manner, but they are the exception rather than the rule). The further a lifter descends, the more the hamstrings are recruited, and proper squatting displays nearly twice the hamstring involvement of the leg press or leg extension. (5,6) and as one of the functions of the hamstring is to protect the patella tendon (the primary tendon involved in knee extension) during knee extension through a concurrent firing process, the greatest degree of hamstring recruitment should provide the greatest degree of protection to the knee joint. (7) When one is a powerlifter, the top surface of the legs at the hip joint must descend to a point below the top surface of the legs at the knee joint.
> 
> Knee injuries are one of the most commonly stated problems that come from squatting, however, this is usually stated by those who do not know how to squat. A properly performed squat will appropriately load the knee joint, which improves congruity by increasing the compressive forces at the knee joint. (8,(9) which improves stability, protecting the knee against shear forces. As part of a long-term exercise program, the squat, like other exercises, will lead to increased collagen turnover and hypertrophy of ligaments. (10,11) At least one study has shown that international caliber weightlifters and powerlifters experience less clinical or symptomatic arthritis. (12) Other critics of the squat have stated that it decreases the stability of the knees, yet nothing could be further from the truth. Studies have shown that the squat will increase knee stability by reducing joint laxity, as well as decrease anterior-posterior laxity and translation. (13,14) The squat is, in fact, being used as a rehabilitation exercise for many types of knee injuries, including ACL repair. (15)
> ...



I've read all those studies and put them to the test. 

 It's been my experience that the majority of those with knee and or lower back problems cannot squat below parallel without worsening their condition. That in itself tells me that squatting below parallel puts more stress on the "lower back"/sacrum and the "knees".

 While it is true that more stress will transfer over to the hips during a deep squat,there will also be more stress placed on the knees and lower back when one assends out of that deeper position.

 There has been many studies out there that sound good on paper, but many don't hold true when put to the test. If you can squat deep without knee or lower back pain and like deep squats, then by all means contiune to do them. But I want be having my clients do them because I have real life experience with various groups of people that has shown me that "parallel squats" are safer than "deep squats".


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## Dale Mabry (Feb 18, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> I've read all those studies and put them to the test.
> 
> It's been my experience that the majority of those with knee and or lower back problems cannot squat below parallel without worsening their condition. That in itself tells me that squatting below parallel puts more stress on the "lower back"/sacrum and the "knees".




Problem with that kind of logic is that people with a dysfunction do not line up with normal folk.  For example, if person A has skin cancer and person B does not, it would be advised that person A not go out in the sun, not that the Sun causes cancer.  Same with the squat, if people with bad knees can't squat below parallel without pain, it doesn't mean everyone is going to get knee damage from deep squatting.  In all actuality, the people with bad knees are prolly either being pussies, or too proud to use a lower weight.  Both should be punishable by death, IMO.


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## IRON MAN (Feb 18, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Problem with that kind of logic is that people with a dysfunction do not line up with normal folk.  For example, if person A has skin cancer and person B does not, it would be advised that person A not go out in the sun, not that the Sun causes cancer.  Same with the squat, if people with bad knees can't squat below parallel without pain, it doesn't mean everyone is going to get knee damage from deep squatting.  In all actuality, the people with bad knees are prolly either being pussies, or too proud to use a lower weight.  Both should be punishable by death, IMO.



Agree about many trying to use too much weight.  

What I forgot  to mention is that I have seen several trainers develop lower back problems by squatting butt to the ground. Therefore anyone concerned with the health of their "lower back" should never squat deep. 

 In general it's been mostly lower back problems I have seen occur from using deep squats but I have seen a few knee problem develop as well. I think the tendency for most trainers to bounce just a tiny bit in the lower position is what damages the knees. In regards to the lower back it does not take bouncing in the bottom position to hurt.


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## CowPimp (Feb 18, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> Agree about many trying to use too much weight.
> 
> What I forgot  to mention is that I have seen several trainers develop lower back problems by squatting butt to the ground. Therefore anyone concerned with the health of their "lower back" should never squat deep.
> 
> In general it's been mostly lower back problems I have seen occur from using deep squats but I have seen a few knee problem develop as well. I think the tendency for most trainers to bounce just a tiny bit in the lower position is what damages the knees. In regards to the lower back it does not take bouncing in the bottom position to hurt.



They probably squatted so deep that their back began to round, if it is even possible to isolate the issue to the fact that they deep squat...  As opposed to a multitude of other possible causes for lower back problems that may have merely been exaccerbated by squatting that deep once developed.

I think squatting as deep as you can is great, but don't go so deep that your back rounds.  Work on fixing that issue if it does so that you can squat deeper without increasing the stress on your lower back so much.


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## GFR (Feb 18, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Problem with that kind of logic is that people with a dysfunction do not line up with normal folk.  For example, if person A has skin cancer and person B does not, it would be advised that person A not go out in the sun, not that the Sun causes cancer.  Same with the squat, if people with bad knees can't squat below parallel without pain, it doesn't mean everyone is going to get knee damage from deep squatting.  In all actuality, the people with bad knees are prolly either being pussies, or too proud to use a lower weight.  Both should be punishable by death, IMO.


Gheyest post yet


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## min0 lee (Feb 18, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> I think squatting as deep as you can is great, but don't go so deep that your back rounds. Work on fixing that issue if it does so that you can squat deeper without increasing the stress on your lower back so much.


 
 
I have better form going ass to floor than those who half squat.


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## MyK (Feb 19, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> Ohhh, I See.....


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## min0 lee (Feb 19, 2006)

MyK said:
			
		

>


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## GFR (Feb 19, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

>


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## min0 lee (Feb 19, 2006)

Gee...I can't see shit from here.


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## Dale Mabry (Feb 19, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Gheyest post yet




No way, Michael Bolton, gheyest thread ever is in Open Chat with the Pope shaking hands with some fancy lad.


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## GFR (Feb 19, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> No way, Michael Bolton, gheyest thread ever is in Open Chat with the Pope shaking hands with some fancy lad.


I know that you got hard thinking about shampooing my hair


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## Dale Mabry (Feb 19, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I know that you got hard thinking about shampooing my hair




I have my own formula.


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## GFR (Feb 19, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> I have my own formula.


Topolo told me about that.


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## RippedNYLifter (Jul 18, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> 13) Likewise, delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) also gives no clue as to the effectiveness of a workout. It just means A) you have a ton of microtrauma in a muscle or a lot of lactic acid/ waste products. Congratulations.
> 
> 14) ???Core stability training??? is not done on a swiss ball or a stability board. It???s done by pulling heavy deadlifts, standing overhead presses, full squats, heavy barbell rows, heavy farmer???s walks, Atlas stones, tire flipping, reverse hypers, heavy back extensions, glute ham raises, and heavy abdominal work.
> 
> ...


  Good article


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