# N E 1 hear of the 15yr old football player dying of a helmet to helmet hit?



## Johnnny (Sep 10, 2004)

I saw this on tv the other day & then I found it online.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002029968_webfootballdeath08.html

Helmet to helmet hits should be completely banned & result in the player responsible being tossed from the game & have a one or 2 game suspension.

This is a very dangerous thing as it's happened to me a couple of times while playing & other teammates of mine, but thank God no one got seriously hurt.

What do all of you think of helmet to helmet hits?


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## cmason2004 (Sep 10, 2004)

Truly a tragedy. Very sad.    

Helmet to Helmet hits definitely need to be banned as you say.  I'm not sure how easy a rule like this would be to enforce.  Unfortunately I think it's part of the game, but steps need to be taken to minimize it.


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## Johnnny (Sep 11, 2004)

cmason2004



> Truly a tragedy. Very sad.
> 
> Helmet to Helmet hits definitely need to be banned as you say. I'm not sure how easy a rule like this would be to enforce. Unfortunately I think it's part of the game, but steps need to be taken to minimize it.



Yes H to H hits need to be banned.

In highschool & college games to enforce the rule of H to H hits, I'd suspend the player who intentionally did it for at least 2 games. & 2 games in college especially if you're a star player looking to be drafted, 2 games is a lot to miss with only 10 or 11 games in the entire season.

As for the NFL I'd fine the player who intentionally did it at least $3K if not more as that's quite a bit for a player to lose in one shot & those guys don't like to lose a cent.

This is what I would do.


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## PreMier (Sep 11, 2004)

Umm, H to H hits are banned.  Banned in NFL, NCAA, and in my HS devision it wasnt allowed.  Shit happens, its part of life.


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## Johnnny (Sep 12, 2004)

Premier



> Umm, H to H hits are banned. Banned in NFL, NCAA, and in my HS devision it wasnt allowed. Shit happens, its part of life.



That's not a good way to look at it.

Sh!t happens? WTF?

You wouldn't be saying that if it happened to your brother, best friend or you.

If it was my brother I'd want revenge on the arrogant jerk who did the H to H hit.

& the sh!t happens attitude IMO is unnacceptable.

If you tackle properly, H to H it's are avoidable completely, this is something our defensive coordinator taught our defense as one of his best friends in college had his career ended (but didn't die) b/c of a H to H hit.

If you tackle properly H to H hits are avoidable.

IMO from what I've seen while playing & in NCAA/NFL games someone who commits doing it on purpose to hurt the guy & that shows great arrogance as out of 5 college or NFL games I don't see many H to H hits & when there is the odd one, it's b/c it was a prick of a player trying to hurt the guy.

That's why it needs to be much more enforced.


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## PreMier (Sep 12, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Premier
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Dont be ignorant, they are 15 year old kids!  It was an accident, purely un-avoidable.  And do you know what?  IT DID happen to my best friend, his neck is now broken.  Dont ever assume what I have and havent seen, and like this, his was an accident too.  How the fuck do you think that other kid feels?  You dont think that knowing he killed someone weighs heavily enough on him?  You think he needs to be punished?  He is 15 for gods sake.
You said that you have played ball before, tell me... does shit not happen fast?  Do accidents occure?  You cant say that you have never seen someone injured.  This is a risk you take when playing full contact sports.  

It is sad, but again these things will happen.  My prayers go out to his family.  For you to think that this could have been prevented is assanine.


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## soxmuscle (Sep 12, 2004)

The kid should be punished?  give me a fucking break.  His life will forever be tarnished because of what happened in this high school football game, isn't that enough?


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## Johnnny (Sep 12, 2004)

Premier



> Dont be ignorant, they are 15 year old kids!  It was an accident,
> purely un-avoidable.  And do you know what?  IT DID happen to my best
> friend, his neck is now broken.  Dont ever assume what I have and havent
> seen, and like this, his was an accident too.  How the fuck do you think
> ...



Yes you're right about me not knowing what you've experienced or seen that's why I put a question mark after each statement.

But sorry to hear that about your friend.

All I can say is yes accidents happen & yes things happen in a split second, but these H to H hits are avoidable.

If the defensive co-ordinator teaches his defensive players to tackle & hit properly this sort of thing won't happen.

The way our defensive/special teams players were taught to tackle & hit out of 5yrs our defensive players NEVER had a H to H hit on a opposing player.

& yes I still think that game suspension should be enforced on H to H hits & financial penalties placed on NFL players.

This way players will learn to be more careful not only for the player they're hitting, but themselves as well so this sort of thing doesn't happen.


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## soxmuscle (Sep 12, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> If the defensive co-ordinator teaches his defensive players to tackle & hit properly this sort of thing won't happen.


...you dont think the defensive coordinator teaches his players how to tackle?  man your truly having a bad day today.


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## Johnnny (Sep 12, 2004)

soxmuscle



> ...you dont think the defensive coordinator teaches his players how to tackle? man your truly having a bad day today.



I'm not having a bad day, but I have seen many careless defensive 
co-ordinators teaching his players poor tackling & hitting techniques that could be more prone to H to H hits. As I've visited different teams & seen their practices.

If you tackle & hit properly, H to H hits can successfully be avoided every hit.


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## soxmuscle (Sep 13, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> soxmuscle
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Personally, I don't think all the teaching in the world could take the instict to nail somebody in that split second you have to think about it.


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## Johnnny (Sep 13, 2004)

Like I said with 7yrs of playing, our defensive players or special team players, not one player ever performed an H to H hit ever, not once.


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## P-funk (Sep 13, 2004)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> Personally, I don't think all the teaching in the world could take the instict to nail somebody in that split second you have to think about it.




I agree......It was not an intentional thing.  As sad as it may be.



> This is a very dangerous thing as it's happened to me a couple of times while playing



well that explains a lot.  All this time I just thought you were dropped on the head.   (j/king)


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## camarosuper6 (Sep 13, 2004)

If if youve ever played football, you know that H to H hits are very often unavoidable. In the heat of the battle, your not focusing on NOT hitting someone else with your helmet, your thinking about getting the job done. 

They should be banned, most definitely, and the story is very sad, but such is the risk in playing a rough sport like football.


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## ALBOB (Sep 13, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> That's not a good way to look at it.
> 
> Sh!t happens? WTF?



You're going to get rid of helmet to helmet hits when you get rid of football.  Let's get real here for a second, it's a FULL CONTACT sport.  That means people get hit and they get hit hard.  Do they go out there and intentionally try to hit helmet to helmet?  Hell no.  That's just as dangerous for the hitter as the Hitee.  But again, it's a full contact sport and the only way to completely eliminate them is to completely eliminate the sport.


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## Johnnny (Sep 13, 2004)

All I can say is yes it is a sad thing, but I will say it could've been prevented.

Most of the players that I've seen commit H to H hits are usually arrogant jerks who run their mouths & are just out to hurt someone.

This may not be the case in this incident, but usually that's what happens.

This one guy for an opposing team we used to frequently play as a LB would always commit a H to H hit in many of the games he played in.

He was also known to start fights in the locker room & on the practice field with teammates.

LB Bill Romanowski is a perfect example of this type of defensive player. Especially what he did to that TE on his own team in practice after beating him & putting him out for the season.

Romanowski is an arrogant jerk who is someone who I've seen commit H to H hits more than once, but luckily no one was seriously hurt.

These are the types of players we don't need at any level.

This could've been the case with this incident, he could be that type of player.

As I've already said, out of the 7yrs I played, none of our defensive, or special teams players ever commited an H to H hit.

So they are avoidable, as a defensive player it's your responsibility to pay attention despite what's going on which I understand in the heat of the moment, but it's your responsibility to pay attention.


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## Pepper (Sep 13, 2004)

Albob is driving the correct motorcyle here.


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## soxmuscle (Sep 13, 2004)

Pepper said:
			
		

> Albob is driving the correct motorcyle here.


I second that..


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## RCfootball87 (Sep 13, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> All I can say is yes it is a sad thing, but I will say it could've been prevented.
> 
> Most of the players that I've seen commit H to H hits are usually arrogant jerks who run their mouths & are just out to hurt someone.
> 
> ...


Look man people dying from helmet to helmet hits is so rare.  It's one thing if you get your mask underneath another guys and drive him up, but you'd almost never get a chance to do that in a game.  Trust me I've played every defensive position at one point or another in the last five years, mainly linebacker, and shit does happen.  I wear one of those black cowboy collars to protect my neck, and it works like a charm.  You don't usually try to helmet to helmet people, but if your already off balance from a lead blocker that hit you, you just kinda dive and try to make it, it's not like you get a chance to set up perfect form most of the time. I had one time I hit a back that was bigger than me h to h in a tackling drill so hard I saw a flash of white when are heads made contact. And besides, most experienceed players and veterans aren't going to change their tackling style because of a d.c. telling thme too.  My DC happens to be a skinny dude that was a shutdown cover corner type, he never tackled as much as me so who is he to really teach me that, he just knows the schemes real good.  I would definetly support high schools getting contracts with mcdavid and douglas for high quality neck restrictors and cowboy collars, cause those really help the neck a lot.  I don't go out there hoping to paralyze someone, but I'd love to give someone something like broken ribs or a finger that takes them out of the game, or makes them think twice before they run at me.  Fact is players are rewarded for making big hits, unfortanetly sometimes people get killed.  If you can't handle that fact maybe you shouldn't play, it's part of the game.


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## Johnnny (Sep 13, 2004)

I guess I have to repeat myself, but the way our defensive players were taught to hit & tackle, they never, ever performed a H to H hit.

Being a tail back that I was at 225lbs, I would very often have to run into & over ppl, but I'd lower my shoulders & keep my head down to push my way forward.

I also wore the smaller neck collar not the full size one, b/c at times they'd even put me in as Full Back to block for the smaller & shorter (5ft7-5ft10) speedsters (180-210lbs) with a 4.2-4.4 yard dash for the 40 going outside. B/c I was bigger they usually used the bigger backs to go up the middel for 3-5 yards at a time. 

So I know about having to run into ppl & hit ppl & even me, I was never in a position where I was going to do a H to H hit as I would always keep my head down & lower my shoulders.


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## solid10 (Sep 14, 2004)

Damn Johnnny! Do you choreographed your games?
Accidents happen in the spur of the moment, I once busted my nose hitting my best friends shoulder once.Bled like a bitch.


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## Johnnny (Sep 14, 2004)

Yes accidents happen, but I still believe certain things are avoidable.

Like I said, no one on our team ever performed a H to H hit.

Most of the college games I see on tv, there aren't many if any H to H hits.


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## ccr_bballer33 (Sep 14, 2004)

*I play*

I'm not sure of your age, and when or how long ago you played, but i can tell you kids are stronger, and jus like many have said when your going in for the tackle you dont have anything on your mine except take his ass down. I know where I play the big hits, are the ones that light up the practice, and also Spearing and putting your head completely down is banned. Where I go (Central Catholic, back-to-back-to-back state champs) the fundmentals are stressed and gameplans, we dont particularly spend alot fo time on head up tackling. More form, and for DB's cut tackling. We lead with our shoulders and rub our ears off on the opponents chest. we pracitce form daily, and it shows..its all about repetition


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## Johnnny (Sep 14, 2004)

ccr_bballer33



> I'm not sure of your age, and when or how long ago you played, but i
> can tell you kids are stronger, and jus like many have said when your
> going in for the tackle you dont have anything on your mine except take
> his ass down. I know where I play the big hits, are the ones that light
> ...



I played for about 7yrs starting at 16yrs old & was a bigger TB who was taught how to hit as I was usually sent right up the gut as we were a power team most of the time when it came to running the ball, but we had 2 other smaller guys at around 190-200lbs who would run outside.

But myself & the fullbacks had to go through proper hitting techniques compared to the 2 other backs we had as they didn't do much hitting.

Your techiniques are similar to ours. Our ears were never above the opponents chest no matter what else was going on, & our DB's used the same tackling, the cut tackling you mention.

We had plenty of reps over & over again, & never had problems with H to H hits.

But we were allowed to hit with our heads & shoulders lowered.


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## solid10 (Sep 15, 2004)

Like I said mistakes happen, does anyone remember when Dennis Byrd and Jeff Lageman collided with each other with Byrd being paralyzed for some time?


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## Johnnny (Sep 15, 2004)

Yes mistakes occur, but I don't see H to H hits very often even in college games let alone NFL or CFL games.

This means that H to H hits are controlable unless you have an arrogant prick like Bill Romanowski the MLB.


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## PreMier (Sep 15, 2004)

Hey.. I like Romo.


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## solid10 (Sep 15, 2004)

PreMier said:
			
		

> Hey.. I like Romo.



Me too, he's a tough SOB.


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## Johnnny (Sep 15, 2004)

Premier



> Hey.. I like Romo.



So you support the fact that he almost beat his TE teammate to death & put him out of for the season b/c he started a fight in a practice?

What a fn' jerk.

Nobody needs a person with that attitude on the team, screw Bill Romanowski


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## PreMier (Sep 15, 2004)

I hope Romo reads this and comes and beats you TO death.


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## gr81 (Sep 15, 2004)

^^ HA HA ah ha

jesus christs, johnnny doesn't ever have to worry about H to H hits, motha fucka is the most hard headed person I have ever seen in my life..lol


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## Sean0621 (Sep 15, 2004)

PreMier said:
			
		

> I hope Romo reads this and comes and beats you TO death.


Should makes this into a poll, who hopes Bill Romanowski should beat Johnnny to death.


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## PreMier (Sep 15, 2004)




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## Johnnny (Sep 16, 2004)

Sean0621



> Should makes this into a poll, who hopes Bill Romanowski should beat Johnnny to death.



So you're another one who supports Bill Romanowski & other arrogant pricks like this beating up their teammates half to death putting them out for the rest of the season.

I guess this shows that you & Premier are just like Bill Romanowski.


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## Pepper (Sep 16, 2004)

Johnnny, your REALLY need to work on getting sense of humor, man.


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## Johnnny (Sep 16, 2004)

gr81



> ^^ HA HA ah ha
> 
> jesus christs, johnnny doesn't ever have to worry about H to H hits, motha fucka is the most hard headed person I have ever seen in my life..lol



Typical gr81 response.

Instead of replying to the thread & the death of this poor 15yr old kid who had his whole life cheated out b/c of some careless arrogant prick like Bill Romanowski

you come on to insult me.

Well they were right about you as this is what you do. You don't add anything intelligent to threads most of the time, but if someone is getting a hard time, for something you're convieniently there to "intervene". 

& notice I quote the word intervene meaning your childish insults.


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## Johnnny (Sep 16, 2004)

Pepper



> Johnnny, your REALLY need to work on getting sense of humor, man.



Death is never a laughing matter especially when it involves someone so young who missed out on an entire life b/c of carelessness.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 16, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Pepper
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> 
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> Death is never a laughing matter especially when it involves someone so young who missed out on an entire life b/c of carelessness.


Of course it would seem that way to someone with no sense of humor, the rest of us like to lighten things up a little bit. What am I supposed to mourn for somebody I never even met for days, I got enough on my plate as it is already buddy, and as far as liking people like Romo, I thought he was a tough sob and made the game more entertaining, and yes I like people like that.


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## Pepper (Sep 16, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Pepper
> 
> 
> 
> Death is never a laughing matter especially when it involves someone so young who missed out on an entire life b/c of carelessness.


That is not what I was referring to...they were talking about Romo (who is a prick, by the way.) I think you should shove some coal up your butt, in two weeks you;ll have a diamond.


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## pmech (Sep 16, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> You don't add anything intelligent to threads most of the time,


Coming from the guy that is never wrong or even if he is, met someone, once upon a time, over the rainbow, that is right, and you agree with him. 




			
				Johnnny said:
			
		

> Yes mistakes occur, but I don't see H to H hits very often even in college games let alone NFL or CFL games.


Pfft, you hold HS kids to the same level of control and abilities as college and NFL players? 


http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/09/16/ligtning.strike.ap/index.html

^^ Lets outlaw lightning because this could have been completely avoidable. In all the years I played football this never happened, our coaches taught us to get in out of the rain, and I have rarely if ever seen it occur in the NFL or College level play.


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## PreMier (Sep 16, 2004)

Pepper said:
			
		

> That is not what I was referring to...they were talking about Romo (who is a prick, by the way.) I think you should shove some coal up your butt, in two weeks you;ll have a diamond.


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## gr81 (Sep 16, 2004)

hey johnny, you stupid fucc, of course its sad and of course Romo is a prick, but can eiher of us prevent either of tose things, NO, so why argue about it? btw I have never contributed to a thread,.. ha, ok man. I will let my record speak for it self.. ya kow, you have a good attitude, but if you weren't so anal people wouldn't jump all over you and respect you more.. it is what it is dude


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## Johnnny (Sep 17, 2004)

Pepper



> That is not what I was referring to...they were talking about Romo (who is a prick, by the way.) I think you should shove some coal up your
> butt, in two weeks you;ll have a diamond.



Like I said nobody needs dangerous pricks like Bill Romanowski who look to purposely hurt opposing players.

One of my friends is lucky to be still walking, let alone playing football again after some ahole blocked him by rolling on the ground taking his legs out but he did it in a way that had twisted one of his legs around so his foot was facing the other side.

That type of blocking is ilegal in highschool & college levels in Canada and The United States, this guy knew the rules, but he wanted to be a jerk anyways.

None of you would be complaining if it happened to you or your best friend or brother, you'd feel exactly the way I do.

gr81



> hey johnny, you stupid fucc, of course its sad and of course Romo is a prick, but can eiher of us prevent either of tose things, NO, so why argue about it? btw I have never contributed to a thread,.. ha, ok man. I will let my record speak for it self.. ya kow, you have a good attitude, but if you weren't so anal people wouldn't jump all over you and respect you more.. it is what it is dude



First I think you need to take an english class to help you with your spelling, then maybe I could understand what you're trying to say.

But from what I can see you still think that those types of hits aren't avoidable.

& 2nd I never said that you never contribute to threads. I said that much of the time you come on when there are debates going on & you turn it into a slug fest.

Sean0621



> Of course it would seem that way to someone with no sense of humor, the rest of us like to lighten things up a little bit. What am I supposed to mourn for somebody I never even met for days, I got enough on my plate as it is already buddy, and as far as liking people like Romo, I thought he was a tough sob and made the game more entertaining, and yes I like people like that.



Sorry Sean, I have a sense of humor, but you will never see me lauging at death & tragedy.

You wouldn't be lauging if it happened to you or someone close to you so why laugh at this poor kid?

pmech



> Pfft, you hold HS kids to the same level of control and abilities as college and NFL players?



Damn straight if they're taught properly how to hit & tackle by a defensive co-ordinator who knows what he's doing.

Like I said on our highschool & college/junior teams we never had problems like this b/c our guys never made hits or tackle's like that even being highschool kids.



> Coming from the guy that is never wrong or even if he is, met someone, once upon a time, over the rainbow, that is right, and you agree with him.



Yes I have met many ppl in many different areas, computers, movies/tv, sciences & medicine, & professional athletes so I've met a lot of different ppl & learned about the businesses & what goes on & the proper way of doing things.



Anyway there's no point arguing b/c you guys want to laugh at this poor kid who's been cheated out of his life & there's no way to avoid these things.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 17, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Pepper
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For one thing no you actually have no sense of humor, I'm pretty sure that can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Second you give the same response for every stupid thing that happens in the world, "You wouldn't be laughing if it happened to someone close to you". Think of something else to say cuz I'm sick of hearing that. When did I say it would be funny to watch someone get hit like that anyways, what I did was made a funny comment about Romo beating your ass. Oh and third I don't believe you've actually ever sat down and talked to any NFL players in your life, nor do I care if you have, you have a tendancy of backing things up that you say, by telling us that you met some famous bodybuilder, or football player. First off you should be able to argue your case on your own like the rest of us second of all, it is a dead give away that you are full of shit. And finally you argue about things that are so obvious it's idiodic and you never have a real point or a real solution, it's just mindless   . For instance, it sucks that troops are dying in iraq, helmet to helmet hits are bad, Wreckless Drivers Suck, and so on... It's tiring


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## Johnnny (Sep 17, 2004)

Sean0621



> For one thing no you actually have no sense of humor, I'm pretty sure that can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Second you give the same response for every stupid thing that happens in the world, "You wouldn't be laughing if it happened to someone close to you". Think of something else to say cuz I'm sick of hearing that. When did I say it would be funny to watch someone get hit like that anyways, what I did was made a funny comment about Romo beating your ass. Oh and third I don't believe you've actually ever sat down and talked to any NFL players in your life, nor do I care if you have, you have a tendancy of backing things up that you say, by telling us that you met some famous bodybuilder, or football player. First off you should be able to argue your case on your own like the rest of us second of all, it is a dead give away that you are full of shit. And finally you argue about things that are so obvious it's idiodic and you never have a real point or a real solution, it's just mindless  . For instance, it sucks that troops are dying in iraq, helmet to helmet hits are bad, Wreckless Drivers Suck, and so on... It's tiring



Sorry dude you don't know me for sh!t nor do I care if you want to know me or not.

But I have a great sense of humor.

I just don't see the humor in this 15yr old's death playing football.

& I don't care if you're sick of hearing "if it happened to you or someone you know, you wouldn't be laughing" 

b/c it's damn true you sure as hell wouldn't be laughing if the tables were turned.

& I don't give a sh!t if you believe me or not that I've sat down & talked with the Pro football players I've named that I've met & spoken with b/c it's true.

& it's true that I've met bodybuilders & ppl of other professions with high ranking jobs & I would believe all of these experienced ppl over you.

I know they aren't lying as they've been through it all & have the experience to back it up.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 18, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Sean0621
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No I can pretty much tell when someone does not have a sense of humor and you definatley don't. That is almost proven fact, you don't have one and you don't even know what a sense of humor is, so it's stupid to even debate me on that. And if you talk to enough people like I do in the Marine Corps it's easy to spot a lyer or someone that makes up stories, we have one just like you in my unit, he knows three of the Detroit Lions, he made up shit about slepping with 30 girls last year, and we would have let it go because he's a fuck up, so I his fire team leader have to wake him up and dress this grown man like he's my kid every mornining and tie his boots and walk him out to formation so he's not late, you dude, you remind me of him so much it's uncanny. I love how you have an excuse for everything you do as well, like you can't eat right or work out right because you have a thyroid disorder, sorry but I don't believe one word that comes from your mouth, too many excuses and too much I know a guy that's an expert on this or that so I'm right and you're wrong, dude you have to argue things for yourself, right or wrong stand on your own principles and argue your case, don't tell me what Mercury Hayes thinks cuz honestly I don't care.


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## Johnnny (Sep 19, 2004)

Sean0621

Like I said you don't know me for sh!t nor do I care if you think you know me.

I don't laugh at death. I don't think it's funny.

Plain & simple, & yes these types of hits are avoidable, they are called mistakes & mistakes are avoidable.

Ppl just have to pay more attention & be sure they get proper instruction & these hits are avoidable.

That's why these helmet to helmet hits don't happen very often in the highschool, college or pro level.

& yes I've met many different types of ppl with different jobs including professional atheltes & had a descent conversation with these ppl.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 19, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Sean0621
> 
> Like I said you don't know me for sh!t nor do I care if you think you know me.
> 
> ...


And who said that they were laughing at somebody elses death, you have accused several people including me of laughing at somebodies death, and nobody said that, not one person in this entire forum, so you made that shit up in your head. And again you state something obvious, mistakes are avoidable, well guess what if we were able to avoid every mistake in the world there would be no such thing as a mistake, sometimes people slip up and sometimes people really pay for the mistakes of others, that's life. And no I still don't believe you've met any NFL players and satdown to talk to them, I don't know if anybody believes you, to me it sounds like obvious BS. If you want me to believe it then you are going to need somekind of proof, otherwise I think you're full of shit.


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 19, 2004)

This is dumb.  These kind of things aren't allowed.  But they can easily occur unintentionally.  Playing football itself is a risk; you want to scream and holler at someone who takes part it one?  Engaging a helmet to helmet hit is dangerous in itself, and there are better ways to bring someone down without screwing yourself up in the process.  

Football is dangerous itself, so let's ban it and play two hand touch.  Two completions first down.


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## Johnnny (Sep 19, 2004)

Sean0621

I've been accused of having no sense of humor regarding this topic.

You say you don't think this is a laughing matter?

You're accusing me of having no sense of humor regarding this thread.

You say you don't think this is funny either?

Than you wouldn't be saying I need to lighten up & laugh about this sort of thing.

Sorry I don't think that death especially in sports at any level is at all funny or deserves a chuckle at all.

This is not funny.

That's how I feel plain & simple regarding this subject.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 20, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Sean0621
> 
> I've been accused of having no sense of humor regarding this topic.
> 
> ...


Nobody made fun of the kid getting hit in the head, I made fun of your reaction to this and what other people said about you, the H to H hits are not the joke here, you are the joke. And I didn't accuse you of having no sense of humor for this subject, I accused you of not having any sense of humor at all, and that's just a fact so deal with it.


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## Johnnny (Sep 20, 2004)

Sean0621

Again my reaction is based on my experience that H to H hits are avoidable mistakes. Like I've said already none of our defensive or special teams players in the 7yrs I played, did any of our players ever perform these types of hits which means they all learned well & were very careful & payed close attention in what they were doing on every play to prevent those hits as that's what was taught.

& you don't see them happen all the time either & when they do happen, it's b/c of a prick trying to put someone else out of the game.

That's why they are called mistakes b/c they don't normally happen nor should they happen.

That's my reaction.

I don't see what's funny about the truth.

There's nothing funny about his thread at all except for your comments.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 20, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Sean0621
> 
> Again my reaction is based on my experience that H to H hits are avoidable mistakes. Like I've said already none of our defensive or special teams players in the 7yrs I played, did any of our players ever perform these types of hits which means they all learned well & were very careful & payed close attention in what they were doing on every play to prevent those hits as that's what was taught.
> 
> ...


What is funny is that you are an idiot, you have been arguing with me and several others over something that we agreed with you on in the first place, then we started making fun of you because you say the same shit over and over again, about everything. And yes my football coaches in HS taught us proper tackiling technique too, most coaches do, but what we are telling you is that sometimes accidents happen. Have you ever been in a car accident, those happen too, are you gonna bitch to the world about how all car accidents are avoidable as well, and quit telling me what is funny and what is not, it's like a tiger trying to show a deer how to hunt. I told you that you have no sense of humor, I don't expect you to know what is funny or what is not, you don't have to tell me you don't find something funny, I already know.


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 20, 2004)

Yes, Johnny, you do repeat everything ad nauseaum.  No, accidents are not completely unavoidable.  

Helmet to helmet collisions happen because of the speed of the game, not typically because of the intent to do so.  Believing otherwise is naive.


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## aztecwolf (Sep 20, 2004)

One of my buddies on the football team died in high school from a collision on the field, very somber and sad time.  Guy had a cannon for an arm and was the ultimate good guy. RIP Adrian.


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## Johnnny (Sep 20, 2004)

aztecwolf



> One of my buddies on the football team died in high school from a collision on the field, very somber and sad time. Guy had a cannon for an arm and was the ultimate good guy. RIP Adrian.



Sorry to hear that. God Bless him.

This is why these incidences need to be avoided & proper defensive skills other than just basic tackling & hitting.

What needs to be taught are techniques that help players avoid helmet to helmet hits such as these in particular.

Like I've already said, our defensive/special team players never had problems the way they were taught out of 7yrs.

7yrs & not one helmet to helmet hit by our players b/c we were taught how to avoid helmet to helmet hits properly & how to pay attention in the heat of battle.

So again I see nothing funny regarding this topic at all.


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## pmech (Sep 21, 2004)

I truly believe he is Rainman... What time is Wapner on?


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## Johnnny (Sep 21, 2004)

What I will also say is this;

with all the local American, & Canadian highschool games, college games & pro games I've seen over the past couple of weeks, I have not seen one helmet to helmet hit, not one even with rough & aggressive defenses.

After watching the past 2 Notre Dame games, their defense was on fire & hitting hard & they had no helmet to helmet hits.

Here in Montreal we also pick up the local New York & Vermont Friday night highschool games as well as Montreal highschool games, & I've not seen one helmet to helmet with these highschool kids so obviously they were taught well & properly.


With the Sunday Night football game with Miami Vs. Cincinnati Bengals.
It was all defense with not much offensive plays, hard hitting defenses on both sides of the ball.

The Bengals would bring 3-6 defensive players at a time on every snap AJ Feeley took they were in his face the whole night & they were all over the RB's. Yes there were roughing the passer calls, but never a helmet to helmet hit.

I also saw Zack Thomas make a huge hit right down the middle on QB Carson Palmer & guess what? No helmet to helmet hit.

So the level of players & the league has nothing to do with it. It's a matter of teaching your players to pay attention to what they're doing at all times to avoid these things.

& if you happen to have a prick like Bill Romanowski on your team, you cut his ass as nobody needs jerks like that around.


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## Johnnny (Sep 21, 2004)

Pmech



> I truly believe he is Rainman... What time is Wapner on?



If you're referring to me, maybe you should go out & get a helmet to helmet hit & then complain.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 21, 2004)

God you are dumb, you really think that only people like Bill Romanowski are the ones who are involved in helmet to helmet hits. What about Chris Speilman, he broke his neck in a H to H hit, and he was probably one of the more stand up guys in the NFL, and as far as tecnique goes, you could not find me a person with better hitting technique than Speilman, but yet he slipped up and made a mistake and now he's in broadcasting instead of still playing football. Everybody is capable of making mistakes, and sometimes people make bad mistakes, that's just life, deal with it.


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## jack52 (Sep 21, 2004)

Man you must be a referee! There are H to H hits on nearly every play in nearly every game played. Maybe not on the tackle but watch the line play. Coaches have been teaching burying your shoulder in your opponents chest since forever and your helmet is coming along for the ride. So is the other guys! If they didn't hit there wouldn't be cages. They don't spear as much anymore but that's because they miss more often when they take their eyes off their target.


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## Johnnny (Sep 21, 2004)

Sean0621

Have you played football? Let me guess you are a 6ft3 280lb Defensive tackle who knows everything about hitting & tackling & that these things happen.

But don't put words in my mouth, I never said that I think everyone is a prick like Bill Romanowski. There are different degree's of pricks out there.

Bill is on the extreme prick side while Warren Sapp is more in the middle of the prick rating between extreme prick & just a regular arrogant prick.

As I've said that most of the few helmet to helmet hits are done by a regular prick or extreme prick or somewhere in the middle who's trying to purposely hurt the other teams star player to give their team the advantage.

But yes mistakes happen, but that's why they're called mistakes b/c they are avoidable if you pay proper attention at all times. Yes Spielman might've slipped up probably b/c he wasn't paying full attention on that particular play.

The way our players were taught was if you pay attention those helmet to helmet hits are avoidable. 

jack52



> Man you must be a referee! There are H to H hits on nearly every play in nearly every game played. Maybe not on the tackle but watch the line play. Coaches have been teaching burying your shoulder in your opponents chest since forever and your helmet is coming along for the ride. So is the other guys! If they didn't hit there wouldn't be cages. They don't spear as much anymore but that's because they miss more often when they take their eyes off their target.



Sorry, I was no referee, I played tailback at 5ft10 225lbs & ran between a 4.5-4.6 for the 40 yard dash. I was an up the middle power runner who ran between the center & guards & the guards & tackles most of the time.

First our linemen never did helmet to helmet hits with the way they were taught. As for myself I'd run into & over & through defenders & I never did a helmet to helmet hit ever & I would hit ppl especially on short yardage rushing plays like 3 & 1 or 2 & 2 or whatever.

So I saw everything that went on & our offensive players or linemen never did helmet to helmet hits.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 21, 2004)

Maybe you should draw an illustration of your prick meter cuz you've completely lost me, how does one qualify for this prick meter you speak of, and what is the difference between a middle prick and a low prick. Explain it to me Johnnny cuz you've lost me. And by the way I don't care that you were a tailback that ran a 4.5-4.6 in HS and College, what are you Al Bundy. Every kid on my block played football from 6th grade all through HS, I played Quick Guard and Defensive End in HS if you really want to know. Plus I have 22 years experience of watching football like most red blooded americans, you tell me you were a 4.5-4.6 40 tailback, that's great, but that doesn't mean you know the game any better than I do, so stop telling me that like it's supposed to mean something.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 21, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Sean0621
> But yes mistakes happen, but that's why they're called mistakes b/c they are avoidable if you pay proper attention at all times. Yes Spielman might've slipped up probably b/c he wasn't paying full attention on that particular play.
> 
> The way our players were taught was if you pay attention those helmet to helmet hits are avoidable.


You still don't get it, if people avoided 100% of the mistakes all the time there'd be no such word as a mistake, there'd be no need for it since in a perfect world nobody would make any. You really do live in a strange world in that thick ass head of yours. There's reason a Helmet to Helmet hit should ever take place, People shouldn't be dying in war, I don't know what they should be doing but they shouldn't be dying, Nobody should ever drive over the speed limit because that would be wreckless. There's no room for anybody elses opinion but your own, unless of course you're a former NFL player named Mercury Hayes, or some famous Bodybuilder. Remind me never to fight you, hitting your head must be like punching lead, or maybe I'd just get a really hollow knock, one or the other, i just don't believe I'd find any brains in there.


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## Johnnny (Sep 21, 2004)

Sean0621

Okay let me try & illustrate the prick meter.

let's start with a 1-10 ratio, 1 being barely a prick maybe with just a bit of an attitude & attitude/showboat. Someone such as Larry Fitzgerald the rookie WR who asks for a $50million dollar contract or whatever he asked for b/c he thinks he's so good when he's never taken an NFL snap up until 2 weeks ago.

Let 5 be the midway point between someone with somewhat of an arrogant attitude but not overly dangerous or out to get other players. Such as Keyshawn Johnson WR of Dallas. Yes he complains about not getting the ball, but nothing even close to the degree of Terrell Owens. But Keyshawn had every right to complain as they stopped using him in critical situations which cost the Buc's many close games they should've won. He is a clutch player & many times came up with the big 1st down catch or TD when they needed it & they didn't use him last year the way he should be used.

Let 10 be a dangerous & arrogant jerk like Bill Romanowski or WR Terrell Owens who yelled at his QB, coach & offensive co-ordinator & made off the field on the record insulting comments towards his own QB Jeff Garcia.


As for your insulting comments about my intelligence, I just don't think that you can accept the fact that helmet to helmet hits are avoidable provided they are taught properly.

Like I said I haven't seen any so far this season in highschool (except for the one in Seattle where he died), none in College & none at the Pro level.

As for the opinions of professionals, yes I trust those opinions much more than anyone else's b/c whatever their profession, they've been through it all & experienced it all.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 21, 2004)

It amazes me that you have created such a prick meter and have assigned people prick rankings. As for insults about your intelligence, I feel that they are warranted since in fact you are quite stupid, it only makes sense to call a rock a rock. And I was being sarcastic about saying you only listen to the opinions of NFL players, I already know you're making that shit up, so there's no need to discuss anything about choosing your own opinions, when you obviously are making up people and conversations in an attempt to validate your own arguments. Or maybe you are hearing voices in that vacant lot you call a head, anythings possible.


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## Johnnny (Sep 21, 2004)

Sean0621



> It amazes me that you have created such a prick meter and have assigned people prick rankings. As for insults about your intelligence, I feel that they are warranted since in fact you are quite stupid, it only makes sense to call a rock a rock. And I was being sarcastic about saying you only listen to the opinions of NFL players, I already know you're making that shit up, so there's no need to discuss anything about choosing your own opinions, when you obviously are making up people and conversations in an attempt to validate your own arguments. Or maybe you are hearing voices in that vacant lot you call a head, anythings possible



Sorry, but I do know those NFL players I named.

Not too hard to believe, Mercury Hayes played in Montreal after years in the NFL so I met him through a friend who works in a club he frequented, RB Troy Davis after years in the NFL plays for Hamilton, RB John Avery who was in the NFL with Miami, Dallas & other teams plays for Toronto & I've been to these games & got to meet them, then I had went on a few different NFL trips to see games & was able to meet WR Ricky Proehl, QB Doug Flutie & Steve Chrisite K both played for Toronto, & the others I mentioned.

So sorry that you've never had the pleasure of meeting any professional atheletes, but that doesn't mean no one else has.


Back to the point if you're careful when hitting & tackling, you can avoid helmet to helmet hits plain & simple.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 21, 2004)

Ok Johnnny I have to admit I have just been messing with you, the only reason I posted my last ten or so posts was to just see what you'd say next, you are persistent and stick to your guns, as far as your point goes, it has been made, actually it was made in your first post and I think it was unanimous that almost everyone agreed that they H to H hits are a shame. Well if I was to say one thing about your posts Johnnny they are entertaining if anything. Take care man.


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## PreMier (Sep 21, 2004)

No.. dont give up sean!  

Johnnny I wish Romo would H to H your mother.


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## Johnnny (Sep 21, 2004)

Sean0621



> Ok Johnnny I have to admit I have just been messing with you, the only
> reason I posted my last ten or so posts was to just see what you'd say
> next, you are persistent and stick to your guns, as far as your point
> goes, it has been made, actually it was made in your first post and I
> ...



Well my only point has been that helmet to helmet hits don't happen much which means that they are avoidable.

They occur when mistakes happen. Mistakes are avoidable as long as you pay attention to what you're doing.

Why do you have to pay attention?

B/c you could kill yourself or your opponent or seriously injure eachother for no reason.


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## Johnnny (Sep 21, 2004)

Premier



> No.. dont give up sean!
> 
> Johnnny I wish Romo would H to H your mother.



Typical Premier that ppl warned me about.

You always come around looking for a chance to insult ppl. 

I'm not the only person on this forum who feels that.

Personally I think you're wasting your time with your immaturity.

Let's see you complain after going through a helmet to helmet hit. 

Who knows, it might knock some sense & maturity into you but probably not.


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## PreMier (Sep 21, 2004)

I dont play, so I wont get one.  I think that you have had too many H to H hits.. thats why your so weird..


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## Sean0621 (Sep 21, 2004)

PreMier said:
			
		

> No.. dont give up sean!
> 
> Johnnny I wish Romo would H to H your mother.


It's no use dude, he doesn't have emotions, it's like talking to a computer that is programmed to give a certain response, though I will say you seem to have the magic ability to get to him, so go for it man.


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 21, 2004)

Johnny, you are the most repetitive fucking poster I've ever met.  I try and read through this thread and I keep thinking I'm going back reading the same shit you posted the first time.

HELMET TO HELMETS DON'T JUST OCCUR ON TACKLES.  This is a good point.  Helmet to helmets are dangerous for both people involved, but mistakes happen.  People have been injured on REGULAR collisions, should we ban football because of that?  It is a risk to play period.

And this "I played and ran a 4.5 40 at 225" carries no weight at all.  Just because you played (or claim you did) does not reflect that you know what you are talking about.  God.

One more thread where everyone disagrees with Johnny, and he responds by repeating the exact same thing OVER AND OVER.


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## Johnnny (Sep 22, 2004)

Premier



> I dont play, so I wont get one. I think that you have had too many H to H hits.. thats why your so weird..



I guess you're affraid.

But maybe Bill Romanowski will still do you a favor & give you a helmet to helmet to knock some sense & maturity into you or it will probably make it worse.

Sean0621



> It's no use dude, he doesn't have emotions, it's like talking to a computer that is programmed to give a certain response, though I will say you seem to have the magic ability to get to him, so go for it man.



Actually I do have emotions, my emotions concerning this topic are very strong. My emotions have been clear this whole thread that helmet to helmet hits are avoidable if you pay attention to what you're doing on every snap.

Duncans Donuts



> Johnny, you are the most repetitive fucking poster I've ever met. I try and read through this thread and I keep thinking I'm going back reading the same shit you posted the first time.



You guys are being just as repetitive as myself. I'm repetitive b/c I stick to my point & opinions.



> And this "I played and ran a 4.5 40 at 225" carries no weight at all. Just because you played (or claim you did) does not reflect that you know what you are talking about. God.



You got your measurements wrong, that was 225lbs not inches & I was more like 227lbs close to 230lbs most of the time & yes I did play TB for 7yrs so I have hands on experience so I know what I'm talking about. Did you ever play football?

& you say 225-230lbs at 5ft10 is carrying no weight at all? 

That's easy for you to say with your "extra help".

If you've never played football, than you shouldn't even be talking on this thread, watching it isn't the same as playing it.


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## madden player (Sep 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> ...you say 225-230lbs at 5ft10 is carrying no weight at all?
> 
> That's easy for you to say with your "extra help"...


I can't speak for Duncan but I think his point was not about pounds and inches...As far as I know Duncan in all natural..all natural and extremely strong (awesome Heavy Duty Journal )...

This whole thread was VERY interesting, you all made valid points, the kids death was a tragedy but It was an accident.  Like you have been saying all along, players that intentional H to H hit should be punished  (no one in this thread argued against that)..kids should be taught respect for their opponent at a young age just like you said..but accidents are going to happen in all sports, accidents just happen sometimes and all the precautions and training in the world can't prevent them from happening.


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## Johnnny (Sep 22, 2004)

madden player



> This whole thread was VERY interesting, you all made valid points, the kids death was a tragedy but It was an accident.  Like you have been
> saying all along, players that intentional H to H hit should be punished



You said it, accidents happen, & you know what's funny about accidents?

They are avoidable if you pay attention.



> I can't speak for Duncan but I think his point was not about pounds and inches...As far as I know Duncan in all natural..all natural and extremely strong (awesome Heavy Duty Journal )...



So what does inches have to do with anything? I wasn't 227 inches. I was 227lbs. I was never able to get any heavier than this w/o getting fat & not muscle.

But IMO there's only a point that you can improve naturally b4 you need "help"

& a physique eventually begins looking a certain obvious way that the individual has had a lot of "help".


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 22, 2004)

JESUS CHRIST, I DIDN'T USE THE TERM "CARRIES NO WEIGHT" LITERALLY.  I MEANT THE ARGUMENT CARRIED NO WEIGHT FIGURATIVELY.

The " was what I hit instead of the enter key, or something.  It was a mistake.  Nobody is 225 inches, and clearly that was a mistake.  How someone could overlook that is completely beyond me.  As far as you questioning whether I played or didn't play, uh, if it weren't for a torn ligament in my ankle I would be playing now.  Don't challenge people because you like to tout a 40 yard dash time and a playing weight that you feel validates your repetition.  The fact that you claim to have played for 7 years doesn't make you some kind of champion of football ethics and protocol.

Thanks for the compliment, Madden, I appreciate it.


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## camarosuper6 (Sep 22, 2004)

Johnny your a nice guy, but for crying out loud, these posts have got to stop. This is GETTING OLD!


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## gr81 (Sep 22, 2004)

> You said it, accidents happen, & you know what's funny about accidents?
> 
> They are avoidable if you pay attention.



jesus this is still goin on.. there is a reason they call them accidents ya know. if they weren't accidental then they wouldn't be accidents and what your inplying is that kids are purtposely trying to kill others, which is nonsense. but since Johnny doesn't seem to understand what the fucc an accident is, I shall define it for him:

ac·ci·dent    ( P ) 
n. 

1. a. An unexpected and undesirable event, especially one resulting in damage or harm: car accidents on icy roads. 
   b.  An unforeseen incident: A series of happy accidents led to his promotion. 
   c.  An instance of involuntary urination or defecation in one's clothing. 
2. Lack of intention; chance: ran into an old friend by accident. 
3. Logic. A circumstance or attribute that is not essential to the nature of something. 

there you stupid fucc, can you understand that. Car accidents are avoidable too in theory, but we still have accidents b/c thats life. btw they are much more fatal that football games, why not complain about these accidents too johnnny? why aren't you up in arms about all the accidents people have when they are bungy jumping as well huh, those are avoidable to, why do they happen? get a fuccin clue you god damm moron. no one can stand to listen to your bullshit anymore. you are teh most hardheaded dimwit I have ever come across. there can be 20 people telling you something and yet somehow in your mind they are ALL wrong and you are still right! get some therapy and shut the fucc up about it. have a nice day


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## PreMier (Sep 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Premier
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Afraid?  Afraid of what?  Only thing I fear is going to jail after I run you over with my big suv bitch.

And you forget, im cool with Romo.  Your the one who has to lookout, because you insulted him.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 22, 2004)

You guys are still trying to argue with it, i already wrote a letter to the programmers that created Johnnny, I'm suing them for 3.5 million dollars for pain and suffering of having argued with it for an hour last night. If you want to get in on the class action I suggest you all email me immediatley.


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## gr81 (Sep 22, 2004)

^^


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## Johnnny (Sep 22, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> JESUS CHRIST, I DIDN'T USE THE TERM "CARRIES NO WEIGHT" LITERALLY.  I
> MEANT THE ARGUMENT CARRIED NO WEIGHT FIGURATIVELY.
> 
> The " was what I hit instead of the enter key, or something.  It was a
> ...



My bad if it was a typo.

& I was only questioning you about playing football b/c some guys talk sh!t about football like they know everything & they never played.

Sorry to hear about your ankle, for real.

But I don't claim to have played RB for 7yrs, b/c I actually did. & I never said I was a champion or an NFL player, but I do have 7yrs hands on experience with the game & I was able to see what really happens deep within the trenches on the battlefield.

& you guys say they are accidents.

Well, what is an accident? It's an event that occurs when an individual is not paying full attention to what he/she is doing therefore causing unexpected errors which include injuries & in this case helmet to helmet hits.

If you pay proper attention to what you're doing despite of what's happening around you at all times these incidences can be avoided.


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## PreMier (Sep 22, 2004)

Not once have you ever admitted to being wrong.  And here you are just that.  Accidents cant always be avoided, no matter what the fuck you say.

So when you have a child.. and they piss their bed, will you yell at them and say "With you paying better attention, this could have been avoided"?  I mean seriously you need to get a fucking grip!


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## Sean0621 (Sep 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> & I was only questioning you about playing football b/c some guys talk sh!t about football like they know everything & they never played.


Hmmm now that you said I think you may have opened pandora's box. Because I really wanted to say this to you in every football thread I've seen you post in. If you want to know the truth Johnnny, I don't believe you ever played football, lifted weights, or left home. I believe you are a computer geek sitting at home at his computer with nothing but all the time in the world to look up evry article in the news and post on it like you know something about it. You sound like someone reading directly out of a textbook, and nothing you tell me actually sounds like a real experience you've had, it sounds like something you concocted out of reading endless articles and statistics on the internet. Come on Johnnny you can tell us, this can be your intervention, we can help you, but you have to admit you have a problem first.


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## madden player (Sep 22, 2004)

I happen to think he is just a little too passionate about football and too stubborn...I have never suited up and played football so maybe my opinion doesn't count, but I am a football fan as you can see from my screen name and it is a contact sport and shit fucking happens you know..fuck as the athletes get bigger and faster it is going to happen more often IMO.

The only other sport I ever took part in besides bodybuilding was Judo and once a much older kid with more experience throw me and I landed on my head and I was knocked out in front of my mother and it was not intentional...it was an accident...stubbed my toe the other day and it was an accident too..IMO the only way accidents in life can be avoided TOTALLY would be to live in a bubble and never leave your house..this would definately mean no playing football.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 22, 2004)

madden player said:
			
		

> I happen to think he is just a little too passionate about football and too stubborn...I have never suited up and played football so maybe my opinion doesn't count, but I am a football fan as you can see from my screen name and it is a contact sport and shit fucking happens you know..fuck as the athletes get bigger and faster it is going to happen more often IMO.
> 
> The only other sport I ever took part in besides bodybuilding was Judo and once a much older kid with more experience throw me and I landed on my head and I was knocked out in front of my mother and it was not intentional...it was an accident...stubbed my toe the other day and it was an accident too..IMO the only way accidents in life can be avoided TOTALLY would be to live in a bubble and never leave your house..this would definately mean no playing football.


Johnnny5                                                                                                          "Accidents are Avoidable....Pay better Attention..error...proper...form...teach error...no humor... wouldn't laugh if accident happened to...syntax error...someone close....error to you....End Program...


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## PreMier (Sep 22, 2004)




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## gr81 (Sep 22, 2004)

exactly, that risk is the price you pay for choosing to play dude, and if you think that you can stop accidents then you are niave. why do tailbacks fumble, its an accident of course, but if everything on the football field can be planned out rationally and executed to perfection with no line of error, then why do people fumble the ball, or throw interceptions for that matter. Johnnny, you say you played football for so long, well then you of all people should understand that most of the game is based on split second reactions to various scenarios. Unless you can slow time matrix style its impossible to avoid certain things. what about other injuries for that matter. I saw Steve Smith break his ankle in half teh other week for the Panthers when his tackler grabed his feet to take him down. Wasn't that an accident? the shit happens, its the way of the game man. How could you possibly see it differently??


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## Johnnny (Sep 22, 2004)

All I'm going to say is that accidents are avoidable that's why they are called accidents b/c the individual wasn't paying proper attention.


Sure I fumbled & had the other team recover it & score a TD or worse the defense takes it in for a TD.

But over time through all the drills & instruction, my fumbles almost never occured as I became more mature, gained experience & more "aware" of what was going on around me.

Same goes for defensive & other hitting/tackling players.

I don't see what the big deal is, players need to be more careful so this sort of incident doesn't happen.

Like I said it never happened with any of our defensive players for years.


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## madden player (Sep 22, 2004)

Sean0621 said:
			
		

> Johnnny5 "Accidents are Avoidable....Pay better Attention..error...proper...form...teach error...no humor... wouldn't laugh if accident happened to...syntax error...someone close....error to you....End Program...


LMFAO!!


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## Sean0621 (Sep 22, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> All I'm going to say is that accidents are avoidable that's why they are called accidents b/c the individual wasn't paying proper attention.
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> See what we need to do is shut off his endless loop function and we should have this probelem fixed boys.


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## PreMier (Sep 22, 2004)

PreMier said:
			
		

> So when you have a child.. and they piss their bed, will you yell at them and say "With you paying better attention, this could have been avoided"?  I mean seriously you need to get a fucking grip!



Answer this.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 22, 2004)

What haven't you heard Premiere, all accidents are avoidable, that kid needs to be punished for making a mistake, give him a helmet to helmet hit, they gotta grow up sometime.


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 22, 2004)

Johnny, to believe your argument, we would presume that everyone whos disagrees in this forum with you (and everyone else in this world besides Hippies probably disagrees with you) is wrong and you are right.  Notice how not one person has rallied to your repetition?

This is not a good way to proove an argument, but unfortunately, helmet to helmet collisions happen.  If you didn't see it once in 7 years, I can promise you it happened away from the ball and you missed it.  If you don't want to believe that, what can I say?  Maybe you were so busy running past everyone for touchdowns that one slipped by.


----------



## Sean0621 (Sep 22, 2004)

Hey I'm pretty sure we're all wrong, and he's right. I mean it makes sense to me, how it can't to you is beyond me.


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## Johnnny (Sep 23, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> This is not a good way to proove an argument, but unfortunately, helmet to helmet collisions happen. If you didn't see it once in 7 years, I can promise you it happened away from the ball and you missed it. If you don't want to believe that, what can I say? Maybe you were so busy running past everyone for touchdowns that one slipped by.



No sorry never missed them. Besides all our guys were buddies & if something like that ever happened, we'd all hear about it, & no one ever said they had a hit such as this.


As for compariing a broken ankle or torn knee, or seperated shoulder you can't compare it to a helmet to helmet hit b/c ankles, knees, & shoulders are more prone to injury & you never know when it might happen.

But helmet to helmet hits can be controlled/prevented if you pay attention


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## Sean0621 (Sep 23, 2004)

Moron


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## pmech (Sep 23, 2004)

PreMier said:
			
		

> So when you have a child.. and they piss their bed, will you yell at them and say "With you paying better attention, this could have been avoided"? I mean seriously you need to get a fucking grip!


I agree, answer this Johnny. 



And to Sean, this could possibly be the climactic scene where Whopper learns it lesson from playing Tic tac 10^474


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 23, 2004)

Yes, Johnnny, you are very very wrong.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 23, 2004)

You certainly can't compare a child wetting the bed to a helmet to helmet hit just like you can't compare a hockey player getting slammed into the ice from behind by a clear prick.

Sean0621

You say I'm a moron?

Maybe you're the moron who can't take a hint that helmet to helmet hits are avoidable provide that each individual pays attention to what they're doing when hitting & tackling on every play.

& just for your information you can't compare ankle, knee & shoulder injures to a helmet to helmet hit as those injuries are far more common.

Like I said in all levels of football games that I've seen this year, I have yet to see a helmet to helmet.

I've seen dirty hits, but no helmet to helmet hits except for this one highschool incident.


----------



## Sean0621 (Sep 23, 2004)

Idiot


----------



## pmech (Sep 23, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> All I'm going to say is that accidents are avoidable that's why they are called accidents b/c the individual wasn't paying proper attention.


Your argument has been all along that accidents are avoidable, hence if they do occur, the person commiting said accident should be punished. So if that is the case then.



			
				Johnnny said:
			
		

> If it was my brother I'd want revenge on the arrogant jerk who did the H to H hit.


This statement is a flip flip on your orignal argument that accidents are aviodable and should be punished for.



			
				Johnnny said:
			
		

> You certainly can't compare a child wetting the bed to a helmet to helmet hit just like you can't compare a hockey player getting slammed into the ice from behind by a clear prick.


Some other inconsistencies in your armor of illogical statments

Your original post: 


			
				Johnnny said:
			
		

> I saw this on tv the other day & then I found it online.
> 
> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002029968_webfootballdeath08.html
> 
> ...


Later posts of yours



			
				Johnnny said:
			
		

> Like I said on our highschool & college/junior teams we never had problems like this b/c our guys never made hits or tackle's like that even being highschool kids.





			
				Johnnny said:
			
		

> First our linemen never did helmet to helmet hits with the way they were taught. As for myself I'd run into & over & through defenders & I never did a helmet to helmet hit ever & I would hit ppl especially on short yardage rushing plays like 3 & 1 or 2 & 2 or whatever.





			
				Johnnny said:
			
		

> Back to the point if you're careful when hitting & tackling, you can avoid helmet to helmet hits plain & simple.





			
				Johnnny said:
			
		

> Again my reaction is based on my experience that H to H hits are avoidable mistakes. Like I've said already none of our defensive or special teams players in the 7yrs I played, did any of our players ever perform these types of hits which means they all learned well & were very careful & payed close attention in what they were doing on every play to prevent those hits as that's what was taught.





			
				Johnnny said:
			
		

> 7yrs & not one helmet to helmet hit by our players b/c we were taught how to avoid helmet to helmet hits properly & how to pay attention in the heat of battle.


Ok so lets start with your orignal post, you start out by stating that you and your teammates had this happen to you more than once. Then you should have been able to AVOID it, you are just as much at fault as the other helmet in the collision. (Again this based upon your argument, not mine)

Lets move onto your later statements that contradict your first one by stating that you nor your team mates never or had this happen. HMMMMMM, and even if it did happen it should have been AVOIDABLE by you and your team mates.

You sir, are retarded


----------



## madden player (Sep 23, 2004)

I was waiting for ya to mention something "aboot" hockey Johnnny.  You most know that there is the "unintentional" high sticking penalty..It doesn't go unpunished but they do consider it an accident...so maybe "accidental" h to h hits in football should be penalized also??...Do you think this would make the players more aware and the chances of "accidental" h to h less likely (by know you most believe accidents happen because no one in this thread agrees with you and your theories on accidents)..

You have never had an accident in your life??..IMO you would have to be delusional/maybe insane to believe that ALL accidents can be avoided...I don't think you are insane just too fucking stubborn to admit you are wrong.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 23, 2004)

OH NO!!! He caught you in a lie Johnnny. You stupid moron, you talked your way into it, talk your way out of it you fucking retard.


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## Johnnny (Sep 23, 2004)

Very good Pmech you learned how to use the copy & paste tool, congratulations.

Yes I said it happened to me once b/c of the other team player who was trying to take me down, but I ran his ass down & that was the only way he could bring me down.

He was tossed from the game b/c he also tried to start a fight & he was the opposing teams star defensive player. So you can see the other player was a jerk.

I kept my head down & lowered to avoid this type of collision, but the guy went even lower to purposely perform a helmet to helmet hit on me.

So my teammates or myself weren't responsible. Nice try dude.

madden player



> I was waiting for ya to mention something "aboot" hockey Johnnny. You most know that there is the "unintentional" high sticking penalty..It doesn't go unpunished but they do consider it an accident...so maybe "accidental" h to h hits in football should be penalized also??...Do you think this would make the players more aware and the chances of "accidental" h to h less likely (by know you most believe accidents happen because no one in this thread agrees with you and your theories on accidents)..
> 
> You have never had an accident in your life??..IMO you would have to be delusional/maybe insane to believe that ALL accidents can be avoided...I don't think you are insane just too fucking stubborn to admit you are wrong.



Well to tell you the truth I haven't any serious accidents as I pay attention to what I'm doing.

Most accidents are avoidable if you pay attention especially road accidents but who wants to discuss road accidents here in a sports thread.


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## Johnnny (Sep 23, 2004)

Sorry Sean0621 no lie. He just didn't read properly.

I said that a helmet to helmet hit happened to me b4. I was a running back not doing the initial hitting so it was the defensive players fault not mine.


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## pmech (Sep 23, 2004)

I read it just how it was typed. Idiot. 

Yes this happened to me, 
No this didnt happen to me.

Thats a lie. 

And even if it wasnt, which it is, 
It is avoidable, because all accidents are avoidable
Hence you were still at fault


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## Sean0621 (Sep 23, 2004)

Oh so only the defense is at fault, never the offense, makes sense, I have to belive you on this one that there is a general universal that the person on defense is always at fault. Hey Johnnny give me your address, I'll mail you my intro to logic book that I used in my philsophy class last semester, make sure you read the whole thing and do the questions at the end of each chapter, it just may change your life.


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## madden player (Sep 23, 2004)

Yes some accidents with a little common sense you can avoid, everyone in this thread should be able to understand that, and I think they do..But you don't understand Johnnny that to avoid all accidents would be immpossible IMO...You would have to live a home bound existence and take no risks..Even then getting up to go to the crapper you could trip and fall and have and accident..

You didn't see any connection to bed wetting and accidental h to h but you still didn't answer the question..would the bed wetting be intentional or accidental??


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## pmech (Sep 23, 2004)

let me answer this one for you Johnny,

"well based upon my 7 years as a bedwetter, and the 52,714 professional bed wetters that I have talked to, this is clearly a accidental sitaution that could be avoided with proper coaching, and if it were my bed, I would clearly go after the said pants pisser and give him a good whatfor"


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 23, 2004)

Johnny has been destroyed in this thread.  Annihalated.  Despite his desperate attempts at argument, over and over again he has been exposed as having none, being completely contradictory, and most seriously:  being a hippie.

I hate to rip off Eric Cartman but I fucking hate hippies.  You're argument is literally in the area of completely banning football as is.  FOOTBALL IS DANGEROUS.  You can get injured or hit someone with your helmet strictly on accident.  The only solution to this problem is to eliminate football.  And cars.  And 35 mph speed limits.  What nonsense.


----------



## madden player (Sep 23, 2004)

Cartman rules...BEEFCAKE  BEEFCAKE.....Everyone familiar with this episode of Southpark??

Johnnny is probably going to say football is as safe as a game of chess.


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## Johnnny (Sep 23, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> Johnny has been destroyed in this thread. Annihalated. Despite his desperate attempts at argument, over and over again he has been exposed as having none, being completely contradictory, and most seriously: being a hippie.



No, no never.

I stand by MO.

Pmech



> I read it just how it was typed. Idiot.
> 
> Yes this happened to me,
> No this didnt happen to me.
> ...



You don't get do you? Are you that dumb?

I just finished saying that I was purposely avoiding a helmet to helmet hit, but that jag off purposely went lower than me so he could hit me right in the face mask & then after I still ran over his ass, he had the nerve to try & start a fight with me.

He tried to cause a fight b/c he was pissed that he got beat by me running his ass over to the ground.

He is at fault for that helmet to helmet as I did everything in my power to avoid it but he just wanted to hit me in the face mask purposely b/c it was the only way he thought he could bring me down.

I went so low to make it almost impossible for anyone to hit my face mask. But he practically had to dive right into my face mask with his just to hit my face mask, that's how low to the ground I was lowered during the run up the middle.

So I was not at fault, the defensive player was.

& to those talking about bed wetting, I guess you've never played ball as you have nothing better to say.

But when it happens to you, you'll be PO'd to hell at the other guy especially if you did everything in your power to what should've avoided the helmet to helmet hit.

Sean0621, no the defense is not always at fault for these hits when they occur, but it happens to be more often on the rare occasions that it's the defense & not the offense.

How often do you see Keyshawn Johnson banging his head right into Ty Law or Deion Sanders or whoever, not very much.

As for TB's, RB's & FB's, they're taught to lower their heads & shoulders to run into the defender so the majority of the time it's the defense doing the hitting & tackling. But the offensive linemen also hit as well obviously but from my experience they do not usually hit helmet to helmet as they are too busy pushing the defender out of the way, but I'm sure it's happend by "accident" of course.


----------



## Sean0621 (Sep 23, 2004)

So fellas, who here actually believes Johnnny played football for 7 years, or who here thinks he spent the last 7 years playing Madden Football in his parents basement, Let's get a count.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 23, 2004)

I'm voting basement


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## Johnnny (Sep 23, 2004)

Sean0621

[quopte] So fellas, who here actually believes Johnnny played football for 7 
years, or who here thinks he spent the last 7 years playing Madden 
Football in his parents basement, Let's get a count. [/quote]

personally I think that you are the one who's been playing madden & never even picked up a football let alone played which is why you have to try & insult me.

Sorry dude, but I played Running Back for 7yrs partially in highschool, & the rest in college.

I'm not criticizing other teams at any level here, but all I can say is our team was taught very, very well on both sides of the ball, never had helmet to helmet hits on the fault of our players, we didn't have many offensive or defensive penalties in games, nor did we have many turnovers b/c we had great instruction.

Yes we had other injuries such as seperated shoulders, torn knees, & achillies tendon's, but not one helmet to helmet hit performed by any of our players.

If helmet to helmet hits happened during our games, it's b/c of the fault of opposing team players.

So just b/c you never played football, doesn't mean everyone else hasn't either nor does it mean you know everything just b/c you play madden in your parents basement.


----------



## Sean0621 (Sep 23, 2004)

so guess that means you vote that you played, it's one to one, even so far, lets get them votes in.


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 23, 2004)

I'm going to be a football coach one day, and all I'll teach is to helmet to helmet the  other star player.  Even if he doesn't have the ball.  

I don't know if Johnny played fb or not, but he doesn't talk like one.  Talks like a hippie.


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## PreMier (Sep 23, 2004)

fuckin hippes'


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## camarosuper6 (Sep 24, 2004)

Agreed.


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## pmech (Sep 24, 2004)

My vote) Basement, he never touched Madden, and yes , he is a fuckin hippie.

Yes I do get it. You on the other hand have flip flopped your statements/argument once again. Good day.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

Sean0621



> so guess that means you vote that you played, it's one to one, even so far, lets get them votes in.



You really don't have a life do you?

Maybe you're so against me b/c the football team picked on you in highschool or something who knows. 

But just to let you know I was friends with everybody & didn't take on the typical role of a jerk, b/c I was a fat slob who didn't have much of a social life until I started playing football & I still kept the friends who I had b4 & they eventually started playing & training b/c of me.

Instead of this childish vote, maybe you should get physical & try playing football.

Duncans Donuts



> I'm going to be a football coach one day, and all I'll teach is to helmet to helmet the other star player. Even if he doesn't have the ball.
> 
> I don't know if Johnny played fb or not, but he doesn't talk like one. Talks like a hippie.



First let's get one thing straight, I'm not a fn' hippie.

Just b/c I feel what I feel doesn't make me a hippie.

But you just proved to me that you haven't been paying attention or know nothing about football b/c you say 

" I don't know if Johnny played FB or not, but he doesn't talk like one"

First I didn't play full back as that's what fb stands, I played running back which I clearly stated many times so I don't see football from FB's point of view but I still see everything on the field at all times as you have to know what's going on.  

2nd just how is a FB (which I'm not) supposed to talk anyway?

If you want to talk to a fb you should talk to my good buddy who was my lead blocker for a few years.

Speaking of coaching, I was actually offered to be one of the teams running back coach's when I stopped playing, but b/c of work & school I didn't have the time.

Pmech

I personally think that it's you guys who are the one's playing madden in your parents basement.

I didn't have much time for video games while playing football & I lived alone in my own place by the way which I still do.

& being a hippie is something I'm not.

If you say I'm a hippie just b/c of an opinion, that's pretty narrow minded.

There have been plenty of examples in the past that I could've said some of you here were hippies, but that would just be childish & a waste of my time.

To each his or her own, from my personal experience & from what I've seen, helmet to helmet hits are avoidable if you're paying proper attention to what you're doing.

& so far this season in highschool (accept for this one time), college & NFL I haven't seen a helmet to helmet hit, other dirty hits & injuries yes, but helmet to helmet no.

But if you guys want to believe that helmet to helmet hits aren't avoidable & they can happen left, right & center that's fine. I respect that opinion.

But I stand behind my opinion.


----------



## madden player (Sep 24, 2004)

What exactly is wrong with playing Madden in your parents basements?? ...Let's keep it civil..I don't want to see this thread get ugly now but video games in your parents basement is fine with me. 

This gotta be the neverending thread??


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

madden player



> What exactly is wrong with playing Madden in your parents basements??
> ...Let's keep it civil..I don't want to see this thread get ugly now
> but video games in your parents basement is fine with me.
> 
> This gotta be the neverending thread??



I have nothing against video games sometimes a couple of times a week we get together & rent a bunch of games on a Friday night especially in the cold winter.

But I do have something against it if ppl are trying to use video games to convince ppl that I never played football which I did for 7yrs.

& I also have something against it when it's all an individual does 4 or more times a week & doesn't do anything else. That's a couch potatoe.

I play Madden myself but only a couple of times a week as that's all I have time for.

But when I was playing football, I had no time for such luxuries.

But I still stand by my opinions.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 24, 2004)

Jesus Johnnny you're a fuckin hippy now too, I gotta tell ya I thought more of you than that.  Oh and madden dude, by the way I don't think there's anything wrong with livin at home with your parents or playin video games, just as long as you're not still doin it when you're 25 years old like Johnnny. Oh don't give me this crap about not playin video games Johnnny, I've been in open chat and saw you post in every video game thread on this site. You need to get out of the house and go do something with your time, and cut your hair you fuckin hippy


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## madden player (Sep 24, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> ...I play Madden myself but only a couple of times a week as that's all I have time for...


I hear ya man...I try and get in as many games online as I can in the run of a week..You play Madden online??

I wasn't trying to be serious when I said this thread was going to get ugly...IMO that happen along time ago.


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 24, 2004)

Johnny, nobody cares that you claim you played football.  Sorry I confused fullback with tailback (or whatever position you say you played), that's almost as bad as getting pissed because you weigh 225 and someone claimed your "argument doesn't carry weight."

I don't care that you claim you were offered a running backs coach.  To me you've demonstrated true ignorance in relation to football.  You're boisterous nonsense means nothing, and no many how many times you "confirm" in this thread that you played football for 7 years, it doesn't mean any of us care or believe it.


----------



## gr81 (Sep 24, 2004)

> You're boisterous nonsense means nothing




^^ ha ha, BINGO!!!!! couldn't have said it better myself DD


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## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> I don't care that you claim you were offered a running backs coach.  To
> me you've demonstrated true ignorance in relation to football.  You're
> boisterous nonsense means nothing, and no many how many times you
> "confirm" in this thread that you played football for 7 years, it doesn't
> mean any of us care or believe it.



Like I said I don't claim anything b/c it's all true.

You shouldn't even be talking here b/c you never even played football b/c of your ankle so you wouldn't have the hands on experience that I had.

Yes I feel bad that you hurt your ankle, but you never played so you should be the last person talking about football.

You don't even talk about the game here or techniques or anything which proves to me you know sh!t about the sport.

You're just here to give me a hard time & call me hippie & blah, blah, blah. You have yet to say something valid towards the actual sport.

I personally don't have anything against you or anyone here, but since you've never played, you haven't seen things from a footbally player's point of view so you can't possibly judge on what should happen & what shouldn't during a game.


----------



## Sean0621 (Sep 24, 2004)

Dude you never played football either, so quit your talking, you fucking dumbass. Ok Johnnny, if you were running for the 2 gap, in between what two people would you normally run through. In an X block what player steps through first if the play is going through the 3 gap. What number is a tailback called in a playbook. And as far as you complaining about the defensive player hitting you while you were low, let me ask you was he supposed to stand up and hit you, is that what defensive coaches teach. Mine taught me to hit low so I can get under the player and drive him back, that would be proper technique, I don't recall anyone ever telling me to hit high. Let me ask you something was the guy supposed to just let you keep going, no he did his job and stopped you short, argue all you want but if you choose to run low like that, someone is going to make you pay for it eventually, of course almost anyone that has ever actually played would understand this as just being part of playing football, why do you think they do all those neck exercises during practice, so you don't break your fucking neck, of course you wouldn't know about that cuz again you never actually played. Oh and you are a fucking hippy!!!!!


----------



## PreMier (Sep 24, 2004)

No point in arguing with a fucking hippie.

Johnnny post a pic of yourself in football gear.  You know.. when you were like 10yrs old playing gremlin ball.  Thats the only ball I bet you played.  Go smoke your weed, and use your pump hippie boy.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Sep 24, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Like I said I don't claim anything b/c it's all true.
> 
> You shouldn't even be talking here b/c you never even played football b/c of your ankle so you wouldn't have the hands on experience that I had.
> 
> ...



Johnny you fucking faggit I didn't play this year but I'm 20.  I'm in college you fuck nut with a torn ligament.  You're a fucking soft ass weak piece of shit, 225-230 running a 4.5, I'd fucking wreck your ass you bitch.  Go blast your arms by isolating your brachialis pussy, have you ever even done a compound press?  

Fucking laughable joke ass piece of hippie trash.  You don't know shit about football except protesting helmet to helmet shots, and you didn't even know that was already banned.      Get back on this board when you have something relevenat to bring you lying repetitious idiot.


----------



## madden player (Sep 24, 2004)

Glad I checked in on a Friday night..Duncan that sig is over the top ..ROFLMFAO.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Sep 24, 2004)




----------



## madden player (Sep 24, 2004)

Run Johnnny run!!!


----------



## PreMier (Sep 24, 2004)




----------



## camarosuper6 (Sep 24, 2004)

LOL.. that kid behind him looks like hes about to spank the other kids ass.


----------



## PreMier (Sep 24, 2004)

You didnt know?  Johnnny like his ass spanked by other guys


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## Sean0621 (Sep 24, 2004)

Damn Johnnny you a bitch


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

Sean0621



> Dude you never played football either, so quit your talking, you
> fucking dumbass. Ok Johnnny, if you were running for the 2 gap, in between
> what two people would you normally run through. In an X block what player
> steps through first if the play is going through the 3 gap. What number
> ...



Sorry dude, wrong again, I did play as you know sh!t about me nor do I care if you care to know me or not.

Duncans Donuts



> Johnny you fucking faggit I didn't play this year but I'm 20. I'm in college you fuck nut with a torn ligament. You're a fucking soft ass weak piece of shit, 225-230 running a 4.5, I'd fucking wreck your ass you bitch. Go blast your arms by isolating your brachialis pussy, have you ever even done a compound press?
> 
> Fucking laughable joke ass piece of hippie trash. You don't know shit about football except protesting helmet to helmet shots, and you didn't even know that was already banned.  Get back on this board when you have something relevenat to bring you lying repetitious idiot.



I see I hit the button right on the knob.

Defensive aren't we. That can only mean that you it's the truth.

I really don't care what you say, but if you get on the team with your steroid enhanced body, congradulations.

I did it natural & when I was at my 227lbs with my 4.5 for the 40 I would've run over you.

Now there's no need to insult, that just shows me that you're insecure about my comments that hold truth.

If you think a 320lb bench press with a 260lb incline bench, with a 205lb standing military press in the front for reps for a 225lb man is weak, there's something wrong with you upstairs.

I guess your steroids are helping you bench 500lbs, 350lbs on incline bench press & probably 250lbs on standing military press.

Well if I took juice I would've been doing at least 400lb bench & I probably would've hit 250lbs within a couple of years.

& you don't have anything relevant to say either as you just insulted me, nothing relevant.

Get a few years of football experience & then we'll talk.

None of you have to believe that I played but I did, & just one thing Donuts, just b/c you're big of juice, doesn't mean that you automatically can play football.

I saw plenty of big, ripped & lean guys get cut from teams b/c they couldn't even run a 4.8 for the 40 nor did they have any athletism or flexibility & it hurt them as their ass got cut within the first couple of weeks.

& you say you're 20yrs old & never played? 

Well my friend you'll have a lot to learn & I doubt you'll even start as most guys start playing football when they're kids or at least in highschool so you got a long way to go b4 you see playing time.


----------



## nikegurl (Sep 24, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> First let's get one thing straight, I'm not a fn' hippie.



I smell patchouli.  I hate that stuff.


----------



## Sean0621 (Sep 24, 2004)

Now you're trying to defend you're argument by accusing duncan of juicing, hmmm this isn't the first thread where you've tried this approach is it. Oh and I love how you couldn't answer any of my questions on the technical terms used on football plays, anyone who ever played running back should be able to tell me immediately what I am talking about. I'll give ya time to look it up online you fucking dork.


----------



## nikegurl (Sep 24, 2004)

hipppies play hacky sak - not football


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## Sean0621 (Sep 24, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> & you say you're 20yrs old & never played?
> 
> Well my friend you'll have a lot to learn & I doubt you'll even start as most guys start playing football when they're kids or at least in highschool so you got a long way to go b4 you see playing time.



Oh and Johnboy let me set you straight on what Duncan said, he said if it wasn't for his injury he'd still be playing right now, now normal people would be led to believe that he played all the way up until his injury. Now what happened was he probably mispuncuated, which of course leaves you quite flustered much like bright lights and loud noises leave our friends in the animal kindom frightened and confused. You know what this means Johnnny, once again you've proven to the world just what kind of an idiot you are, the very special kind, it's a disease man, similar to the napolean complex which comes from being short, you have a complex from riding on a shorter bus than the rest of us, it happens, sorry I have to be the one to break it to ya, but you are retarded.


----------



## PreMier (Sep 24, 2004)

"Yeah I hate to say it, but I think that's impossible, I've never met somebody that thickheaded in real life, and I'm in the Marines, 9 out of 10 guys are rocks in the Marines, but this guy is a very special kind of rock."


----------



## nikegurl (Sep 24, 2004)

rocks?  don't non-hippy/football people refer to the football as "the rock"


----------



## Sean0621 (Sep 24, 2004)

No Nikegurl a football has way more personality than this rock


----------



## camarosuper6 (Sep 24, 2004)

Duncan doesnt juice. Im his brother, and believe me , he is a strong as he says and hes natural.

Dont be a hater.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

Sean0621



> Oh and Johnboy let me set you straight on what Duncan said, he said if it wasn't for his injury he'd still be playing right now, now normal people would be led to believe that he played all the way up until his injury. Now what happened was he probably mispuncuated, which of course leaves you quite flustered much like bright lights and loud noises leave our friends in the animal kindom frightened and confused. You know what this means Johnnny, once again you've proven to the world just what kind of an idiot you are, the very special kind, it's a disease man, similar to the napolean complex which comes from being short, you have a complex from riding on a shorter bus than the rest of us, it happens, sorry I have to be the one to break it to ya, but you are retarded.



I've made my point, Duncan hasn't played or isn't playing b/c of an injury & I know a steroid physique when I see one.

I stand by my opinions regarding helmet to helmet hits. They are avoidable which is why none have yet to happen in the college & NFL & this is the only highschool helmet to helmet so far this season so most ppl are doing a good job by paying attention to what they're doing when playing.


----------



## nikegurl (Sep 24, 2004)

i'm was just playing.  i adore football!    i've heard some guys call the actual ball "the rock"

plus i like picking on the hippie/patchouli/hacky sack stuff b/c I know it'll upset him


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## PreMier (Sep 24, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> I've made my point, Duncan hasn't played or isn't playing b/c of an injury & I know a steroid physique when I see one.




Read Camaro's post you ignorant fuck.


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## camarosuper6 (Sep 24, 2004)

> I've made my point, Duncan hasn't played or isn't playing b/c of an injury & I know a steroid physique when I see one.



Obviously you do NOT know a steroid physique when you see one, because, once again I state, he is 100  LEGALLY natural (with the aid of OTC supplements).


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## nikegurl (Sep 24, 2004)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> Dont be a hater.



I thought it needed repeating


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## Sean0621 (Sep 24, 2004)

Johnnny you are a moron, you can tell Duncan is juicing from his pic in his avatar. Just because you don't train hard enough to get over your little walls like the rest of us doesn't mean that Duncan hasn't got to where he is at naturally. All this is telling me is that A you do not train hard enough and B you do not train smart enough and C you are a jealous motherfucker. If you can't do what he is capable of doing you feel like you have to tear him down, this is part of the reason why we are so merciless when making fun of your stupid ass.


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## camarosuper6 (Sep 24, 2004)

Fo Shizzle NikeGurl


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## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

Premier



> Read Camaro's post you ignorant fuck.



Have you ever heard of something called lying?

Which is something I never do.

Now you guys are getting very childish & immature.

I made my point, get some playing time & then we'll talk.

As for me I payed my due's for 7yrs.

But you guys are entitled to your opinions & that's fine with me nor have I insulted anyone b/c of their opinions, disagreed yes, insulted no.

& I stick to my opinion regarding this subject.


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## nikegurl (Sep 24, 2004)

don't be a hater


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## Sean0621 (Sep 24, 2004)

You'd stick yourself to an atomic bomb if you thought you were right in doing so you fucking idiot.


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## PreMier (Sep 24, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Premier
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You think that he is lying?  So not only are you a retarded, ignorant, hater, hippie fuck, you are now dilusional.  

Post a picture of your physique, DO IT.  Or better yet, post a pic of you IN a football uniform.  Whats that?  You dont want to?  Because you cant!  Fucking troll


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## camarosuper6 (Sep 24, 2004)

I haven't utterd an insult yet. 

However,  If You insist on starting to  call me a liar, then I will proceed to pull out a can of certfied Camarosuper6 Verbal Whipass.


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## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

camarosuper6



> Obviously you do NOT know a steroid physique when you see one, because,
> once again I state, he is 100  LEGALLY natural (with the aid of OTC
> supplements).



There's a thing called lying.

Your body can only grow & so strong to a certain point b4 you need steroids.
You'd be surprised how many ppl lie about steroids in every gym in the world.

One guy in my gym had competed at the IFBB leve at 265lbs ripped at a height of about 6ft tall & he claimed to be all natural. Well I his brother found steroid vials in his house along with syringes.

He was lying to everyone about his steroid & GH use while he was on it all along.

I don't care what anyone thinks about the ppl I know but all there are many examples of these lies in every gym like it or not, believe it or not.


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## camarosuper6 (Sep 24, 2004)

> don't be a hater



Seems we just cant get the point across can we Nike?


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## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

Sean0621



> You'd stick yourself to an atomic bomb if you thought you were right in doing so you fucking idiot.



Now you're just losing it & not making any sense. You've just completely steered away from football


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## nikegurl (Sep 24, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> One guy in my gym had competed at the IFBB leve at 265lbs ripped at a height of about 6ft tall & he claimed to be all natural. Well I his brother found steroid vials in his house along with syringes.



What the hell does that have to do w/Duncan?  

Seriously - an apology is in order.  You have no right to say he's lying or that he is a steroid user because of your experience with YOUR genetic limits.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 24, 2004)

Johnnny I'm beginning to doubt whether or not you've ever been in a gym period, do like Premiere said and post a pic.


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## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

camarosuper6



> Seems we just cant get the point across can we Nike?



What point?

I have my opinions regarding helmet to helmet hits & I stand by them.


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## camarosuper6 (Sep 24, 2004)

Look Johnny, your entitled to believe the moon is made out of cheese for all I care, but lying I am not. If you continue to believe these dellusions of gradeur you seem to create.. this so called "Johnny 6th sense" you have about everything, fine by me, but dont go throwing insults my way.

Hes natural. Hes strong . Yes it is possible.

Just because you dont feel like agreeing with the truth, doesnt make it any less true.


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## nikegurl (Sep 24, 2004)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> Seems we just cant get the point across can we Nike?



nope   but now we know that every guy here with a better physique than Johnny is a liar and a steroid user.


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## camarosuper6 (Sep 24, 2004)

I guess. 

I dont have a problem with Johnny's opinion on helmet hits, I could care less. The man has a right to his opinion.

But Johnny would try to convice Newton that gravity is an illusion, and actually believe himself. This is getting old, fast.

BTW Johnny, accusing someone of steroid use is a pretty serious issue. I suggest you give it up fast.


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## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

nikegurl



> What the hell does that have to do w/Duncan?
> 
> Seriously - an apology is in order.  You have no right to say he's
> lying or that he is a steroid user because of your experience with YOUR
> genetic limits.



You've got to be kidding.

He owe's me an apology, he comes on here talking sh!t to me & insulting me saying I never played football, when the dude at 20yrs old has never played  one play of football in his life.

He just came here to get on my case, now I know why Randy was pissed at him on another thread.

As for lying I believe he is lying as there are too many steroid users lying out there.

Just like Arnold back in the day said he was all natural & he was pumping up with D-Bol & Primobolan & the dude claimed to be natural all those years.

What a crock.

Like I said I know a steroid physique when I see one, there's too much lying about steroid use going on that you wouldn't even know if your own brother, sister or best friend was using steroids.


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## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

camarosuper6



> BTW Johnny, accusing someone of steroid use is a pretty serious issue. I suggest you give it up fast



Well I have my opinions on lying steroid users & I'm sticking to that opinion as well.


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## camarosuper6 (Sep 24, 2004)

> As for lying I believe he is lying as there are too many steroid users lying out there.



There are a lot of people out there lying about their football experiences too, but I dont disbelieve you because of the mere percentages of liars....

I am TELLING you he is natural. I have no reason to lie, and neither does he. Telling me the Earth is flat does not make it any less round. Facts are Facts and you my friend, are wrong and starting to piss me off.

I try to stay unbiased in the discussions, being a Mod, but your blantently putting out untrue information, agasint the word of a reliable informant(me). There is a term for this, its called libel.


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## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

One of my good friends who I played ball with lied to me for almost 8yrs about his steroid use until just recently even though I knew he was already on them.

It's just an example of what goes on in every gym.

But at least some of the guys on the team where honest about their steroid use & offered me cycles of this testosterone & that hormone & so on but I always turned them down


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## camarosuper6 (Sep 24, 2004)

Your full of examples.

Your also full of shit.


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## madden player (Sep 24, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> ...Like I said I know a steroid physique when I see one, there's too much lying about steroid use going on that you wouldn't even know if your own brother, sister or best friend was using steroids.


Johnnny I hate this bullshit more than anyone.  I have been natural for life (IMO I happen to think that even androstenedione is a steroid..it is certainly a male sex hormone and I have never even touched that crap or any OTC juice to enhance my physique) and I have been accused of juicing and being natural is something I take alot of pride in and so does everyother natural bodybuilder.  

I have been fascinated/practicing  bodybuilding for almost almost ten yrs..IMO steroid use is only obvious in the most extreme of cases..Please don't judge a book by it's cover, just because someone is bigger than you does not mean they use steroids.  With that kind of attitude/belief you will amount to nothing when it comes to natural bodybuilding.


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 24, 2004)

Johnny, you fucking weak, sorry faggit.  For reference; yes, I played football.  Injuries limited me in high school seriously; torn tricep, broken toe.  The idea that my opinion doesn't matter because you say I didn't play, though, is fucking ridiculous.  I used over the counter supplements and nothing else, dizzawg, but the fact of the matter is that the burden of proof lies on the accuser.  Where's your proof?  

Oh, I see, you SEE me and see my lifts (which, let's be honest Mr. Brachialis blaster, destroy yours - I'm modest, but I won't back down from this shit) and assume that I'm juicing.  HOW IS THIS ANY DIFFERENT FROM US LOOKING AT YOU AND ASSUMING BASED ON HOW YOU TALK THAT YOU DON'T PLAY FOOTBALL?  

OK, i'm a juicer since you say so, if you're a faggit hippie with no football experience who's a complete moron with no sense of argument who probably never broke 5 seconds in an agility run.  You're a fucking douche.  No good football player lifts like you.  No football player who presses 205 pound military style (OFMG WOWWOW!  Should I suck ur 12" cock now Mr. Delusional?) reverts to being an incoherent, blubbering little hippie.


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## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

camarosuper6



> There are a lot of people out there lying about their football experiences too, but I dont disbelieve you because of the mere percentages of liars....
> 
> I am TELLING you he is natural. I have no reason to lie, and neither does he. Telling me the Earth is flat does not make it any less round. Facts are Facts and you my friend, are wrong and starting to piss me off.



I was curious have you ever played football?

Naw, sorry dude football is the truth as I loved the game since I was a kid & then finally got into fairly good condition & eventually grew to a descent "natural" size to play football at a college level

But the liars of steroids is much more common.

How the hell do you know that he's natural? Do you live with him at his house?
If you do you should try wiping his behind as I'm sure you'll find needle punctures on both cheeks.

You will never know if someone is lying or not about steroids.

Like I said at least most of the guys I played football with where honest about their steroid use & offered many cycles, many times to me.



> Your full of examples.
> 
> Your also full of shit.



Wrong again, the truth, not sh!t.


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 24, 2004)

Wow, you know better than my brother, who is a police officer, who lived with me for 20 years, who taught me basically everything I know about weight training which I developed from there.

For your reference I am now currently considering a cycle, but until that time, you fucking piece of shit, I'm still naturally better than you will ever dream of being.  Oh, and my best 40 yard dash time was 4.473, based on a 3 run average.  So I'm faster than you are, too.  Hurts, don't it?


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## camarosuper6 (Sep 24, 2004)

Damn it Johnny. I have gotten along with almost everyone on this forum for over a year now, and your gonna blow that for me. 

I have lived with him, for the past 24 years of my life, until I recently moved. How the hell could you possibly be a good judge of how well I know my own brother? You have an exteme case of the "know it all's". You are on the verge of becoming Spam in this forum, and I will be the first to boot you out if necessary.

Yes I played football throughout highschool, and stopped as soon as college hit. I know plenty about the game, and how to play. Just because all your so called "friends" have lied to you about their so called steroid use, doesnt mean the same applies to me and my brother.

I am too curiuos, if you are all you claim to be, why you dont post a simple picture of yourself playing football, lifting weights, hell, Id be satisfied if you were over 13 by the way you speak and act.

It is not smart to speak libel (slander) about another person, especially on an illegal subject. Your opinions do not matter in this case, you are not a jury. You do NOT know it all, and need to get your foot out of your mouth.


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## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> Johnny, you fucking weak, sorry faggit. For reference; yes, I played football. Injuries limited me in high school seriously; torn tricep, broken toe. The idea that my opinion doesn't matter because you say I didn't play, though, is fucking ridiculous. I used over the counter supplements and nothing else, dizzawg, but the fact of the matter is that the burden of proof lies on the accuser. Where's your proof?
> 
> Oh, I see, you SEE me and see my lifts (which, let's be honest Mr. Brachialis blaster, destroy yours - I'm modest, but I won't back down from this shit) and assume that I'm juicing. HOW IS THIS ANY DIFFERENT FROM US LOOKING AT YOU AND ASSUMING BASED ON HOW YOU TALK THAT YOU DON'T PLAY FOOTBALL?
> 
> OK, i'm a juicer since you say so, if you're a faggit hippie with no football experience who's a complete moron with no sense of argument who probably never broke 5 seconds in an agility run. You're a fucking douche. No good football player lifts like you. No football player who presses 205 pound military style (OFMG WOWWOW! Should I suck ur 12" cock now Mr. Delusional?) reverts to being an incoherent, blubbering little hippie.



You just proved it, you just said you have "limited football experience".

Obviously your body wasn't meant for the sport with all the injuries you sustained.

Not everybody is meant for every sport.

What position did you play for a "limited time"?

Sorry, wrong again 7yrs experience Vs. your what 1 month or 1 year experience?

& you just proved that you don't know much about football or football training b/c many of the players & football weight lifting routines include standing military press as well as the push press which is when you're going way too heavy on standing military press & you slightly squat down as you lower the weight & then slightly squat up at the same time exploding the barbell back up in the air.

So you don't know what you're talking about.

We did mostly 20 & 40 yard sprints along with plenty of plyometrics, wall climbing & hopping, pushing SUV's with 4 ppl in it up & down parking lots (a technique out of the FB Mike Alstott routine), tire & rope hopping, box jumping, long jumping, sprints with parachute's, running plays from the 5 yard line, then the 10 yard line, then the 20 & so on, weight lifting of course, watching game films, learning techniques for each players position, & many more training exercises & routines.

I think that's enough


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## camarosuper6 (Sep 24, 2004)

BTW.. like my brother said Johnny... the burden of proof lies in the hands of the accuser.

You claim all these football accomplishments... with absolutely no proof.
You CLAIM you can tell my brother is un natural, against not only his word, but MINE, as well.

Where is you proof, Oh wise Yoda ?


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 24, 2004)

OH MY FUCKING GOODNESS.  WHERE DID I SAY I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT A STANDING MILITARY PRESS IS?  OR A POWER PRESS?  OR A BOX SNATCH?  

I don't care if you think you know more about football than I.  God, I'm faster than you, I'd bet dollars to donuts my pro agility run is better, and I'm naturally stronger than you could be if jesus gave you the powers of samson and you injected my muscle into your body.  You want to go over fucking drills that coaches use now?  How about a hip fip on the line, or a backpedal weave?  The fact that I know this means what?  It means nothing.  When you make your argument it still makes no sense.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Sep 24, 2004)




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## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

camarosuper6



> Damn it Johnny. I have gotten along with almost everyone on this forum for over a year now, and your gonna blow that for me.
> 
> I have lived with him, for the past 24 years of my life, until I recently moved. How the hell could you possibly be a good judge of how well I know my own brother? You have an exteme case of the "know it all's". You are on the verge of becoming Spam in this forum, and I will be the first to boot you out if necessary.
> 
> ...




I have nothing against you, but you're the one who's blowing your friendly record here by coming at me just b/c I have my own opinions about certain issues & you don't like my opinions that's why you're here.

I'm sorry that you didn't play football in college (for real), you missed a good time, it was a lot of fun.

As for judging your brother, I didn't mean yours personally I mean in general as I've heard crazy things about steroids with ppl who you'd never think were on them, maybe one day they come out in the open or one day you're at their house & you stumble on some empty vials or syringes in the garbage.

That's what I'm talking about.


You say you've been here for a year correct? Than you'd know why I'm patiently waiting to post a pic of myself.

As you know I suffered a thyroid condition in 2001 losing almost 30lbs in a month from 227lbs to a burnt out 200lbs who was on his way to developing Graves disease which is an untreated hyper thyroid condition which takes longer to recover from than just a simple hyper thyroid.

That's why I had to stop playing football, that was the main reason & school.

Now after 4yrs of treatment I'm a descent 205lbs with my strength half way back to where it was at 227lbs, but it's taking a long time to get back there & I don't know if I'll be able to gain that mass back w/o steroids after my body suffered from that condition.

But my thyroid treatment was altered last August 2003 with Iodine to shut my thyroid production down & then 6 months later I was put on synthroid but during those 6 months of not having any thyroid production I suffered gain from a moderate amount an unwanted gut having my waist go from about 32-34 inches up to 36-38 inches uncontrolably despite training & diet.

My endocrinologist told me that once my thyroid returned to normal & I continued dieting & training, the fat would eventually burn away.

& it is, I'm back down to a 34 inch waist but not completely in the condition I feel comfortable with. It's mostly just a tiny bit of a stomach but the rest of the body is pretty lean & I'm starting to develop my lean set of abs again.

This is why I haven't posted a pic yet, good enough answer? If you went through this, you'd feel the same way, having your physique take a turn in the wrong direction despite your training, diet, & cardio is a tough thing to deal with.

But with regards to steroid users, I stick to my opinions as well as helmet to helmet hits.

Maybe I should've taken my teammates up on their steroid offers, I could've exploded up to 250lbs at 5ft10 & maybe played FB or MLB which is something I always wanted to play as well but I wasn't big enough so I settled for Running Back.


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## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> OH MY FUCKING GOODNESS. WHERE DID I SAY I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT A STANDING MILITARY PRESS IS? OR A POWER PRESS? OR A BOX SNATCH?
> 
> I don't care if you think you know more about football than I. God, I'm faster than you, I'd bet dollars to donuts my pro agility run is better, and I'm naturally stronger than you could be if jesus gave you the powers of samson and you injected my muscle into your body. You want to go over fucking drills that coaches use now? How about a hip fip on the line, or a backpedal weave? The fact that I know this means what? It means nothing. When you make your argument it still makes no sense.



I never said you didn't know about Standing military press, I said you didn't know about football training routines.

As for your "NATURAL STRENGTH" I'm guessing you have a 420lb bench press for reps, a 315lb incline bench press for reps, & a 255lb standing military press w/o the push press for reps correct?


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 24, 2004)

I dont' do regular bench presses nor incline bench presses nor standying military presses.

What you may fail to realize, dear sir, is that none of these are specific football training routine. They are strength training routines.  Football training is on the field; strength training is in the weight room.

You can look at my journal if you want to see my routine.


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## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> Wow, you know better than my brother, who is a police officer, who
> lived with me for 20 years, who taught me basically everything I know about
> weight training which I developed from there.
> 
> ...



The police? Give me a break. They are some of the worst crimminals & corrupted ppl around.

One cop I know offered me steroids at the gym. Many of the cops are affiliated with the organized crime ring in each city.

As for your 40 yard dash time at 4.437 seconds that doesn't bother me that much as it's not that much faster than mine at 4.5.

My 100 yard dash was around 13-15 seconds on a bad day.

But then again the 40 yard dash time isn't always important. There are NFL running backs with a 4.6-4.7 for the 40 around. Ron Dayne of the Giants runs about a 4.67 or something the last I heard last season.

You can say I'm a piece of shit, but I still don't have anything against you.

But one thing you have to admit is there are a lot of steroid users out there who don't tell the truth.

I'm just curious what you're current thoughts of a steroid cycle consist of & how many CC's & for how long?

Just so you know the NCAA has a strict policy on steroid use & sometimes "the way around it" isn't always effective.


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## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> I dont' do regular bench presses nor incline bench presses nor
> standying military presses.
> 
> What you may fail to realize, dear sir, is that none of these are
> ...



Actually that's where you're wrong as they are all part of a football training routine.

Take a look at a pro level training program or even a highschool or NCAA routine.

Yes they are strenth training routines, & many football routines include strength training routines as well as on field routines.

If teams didn't have a strength training routine, than their players would lose some size, strength & power.


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 24, 2004)

Johnnny, no, I am not wrong.  Football training is skill specific; in regards to an open skilled training system, football itself is not improved in the weight room.  Getting better at blocking has nothing to do with getting better at doing a military press (standing, sitting, whatever).  Functional strength and skill specific training are SEPERATE ENTITIES that come together to improve an athlete.  It isn't skill training, it is strength training.  There are neuromuscular studies that support this, which upon request, I will pull up for you.

I by no means meant that strength training is unnecessary.  I'm saying that strong athletes who can't block are useless, as are fast athletes who can't move diagonally. 

 nothing against me?  I certainly have something against you, and you against me.  You wouldn't have accused me of steroid use and then said this: 

"Obviously your body wasn't meant for the sport with all the injuries you sustained.
Not everybody is meant for every sport."

Let's be real.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> Johnnny, no, I am not wrong. Football training is skill specific; in regards to an open skilled training system, football itself is not improved in the weight room. Getting better at blocking has nothing to do with getting better at doing a military press (standing, sitting, whatever). Functional strength and skill specific training are SEPERATE ENTITIES that come together to improve an athlete. It isn't skill training, it is strength training. There are neuromuscular studies that support this, which upon request, I will pull up for you.
> 
> I by no means meant that strength training is unnecessary. I'm saying that strong athletes who can't block are useless, as are fast athletes who can't move diagonally.
> 
> ...



Yes you're right as techniques & skills are extremely important but the weight room is also essential.

But I don't have anything against you, just ppl who lie about steroid use.

Let me ask you this, what good is a FB with all the skills in the world, but not enough strength or power to block the defensive tackle or linebacker? Then the running back gets nailed before he can get back to the line of scrimmage.


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 24, 2004)

I did not disagree with you, Johnny.  Clearly I believe that strength is important because I'm training for football now.  If I thought the weight room was not ballast I wouldn't be considering anabolics now, a full year before I have to report for the next season.  I just don't believe standing military presses are better than seated military presses; or power cleans better than squats for improving the strength function of football.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 24, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> He owe's me an apology, he comes on here talking sh!t to me & insulting me saying I never played football, when the dude at 20yrs old has never played  one play of football in his life.



Johnnny your parents owe all of us an apology for giving birth to you.


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## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

Here is one of Illinois's (of the Big 10) strength training routines:

Workout:
Suggested warm-up for 5 minutes. Biking or Jump Rope. Get a nice sweat going to warm up the muscles. Stretch as needed. Remember to breathe correctly, full range of motion, concentrate on the specific muscle that you are using.

Week 1: sets x 10
Weeks 2-5: sets x 8
Weeks 6-8: sets x 6

Monday: (Chest and Shoulders)
Bench (cycle). Usually a pyramid or ladder.
Incline Bench 3x
Shrugs 3x
Dips 3x
Flys 3x
DB Raises 3x
Decline Pushups 3x
Forearms
Abs
Cardio (20 min) High Intensity

Tuesday (Legs, Back and Bi's)
Squat (cycle)
Leg Extension 3x (two legs)
Leg Curls 3x (two legs)
Back (wide grip lats) 3x (heavy)
Back (choose) 2x
Biceps (straight bar) 3x (heavy)
Biceps (choose) * high rep burnout
Forearms
Abs
Cardio (same)

Wednesday (off)

Thurs (Chest, Tri-concentration, shoulders) Lighter day
Bench Cycle
DB Bench 2x
DB Military 2x
Upright Rows 3x
Torture 3x and 3x15 (Flat bench with EZ curl bar, tricep extension lying on bench, then pressout for 15). Rest for 1 to 2 minutes and repeat. Your triceps will grow!
Light DB raises 3x
Pushups 3x
Forearms
Abs
Cardio (same)

Friday (Legs, Back and Bi's)
One legged Squats 3x
Leg Press 3x
One legged leg extensions 3x
One legged legs curls 3x
Back (a-frame) 3x
Back (choose) 2x
Biceps (db curl) 3x (heavy)
Biceps (choose) * high rep burnout
Forearms
Abs
Cardio (same)

Remember, variation is the best. This is just a basic workout that I follow. I change it up periodically to shock my body. Each weight workout should take no longer then 1hr to 1:15 and the cardio is only 20 minutes


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## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

Sean0621



> Johnnny your parents owe all of us an apology for giving birth to you.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 24, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> did not disagree with you, Johnny. Clearly I believe that strength is important because I'm training for football now. If I thought the weight room was not ballast I wouldn't be considering anabolics now, a full year before I have to report for the next season. I just don't believe standing military presses are better than seated military presses; or power cleans better than squats for improving the strength function of football.



I never said that seated military press weren't good or important, but standing military press is a tru test of over head power.

& power cleans or power clean & press don't replace squats they do something different.

But many strength coaches are encouraging their players to refrain from power cleans as you can easily rip something in your rotator cuffs.

But the push press & standing military press are parts of many strength training routines.


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 24, 2004)

Johnny, dude seriously, I'm trying to be nice now.  Why did you post up what a Big 10 school's program is?  STANDING MILITARY PRESSES are not a better "test" of overhead power.  In fact, speaking strictly on the deltoids, a seated military press might be better because you can't use the LEGS to propel the weight from a static position.

I think squats ARE BETTER FOR DEVELOPING strength itself, in place than power cleans.  Just because they are parts of many strength training routines (AND DONT GET ME WRONG, THEY ARE FINE EXERCISES) they do NOT HAVE TO BE THE CRUX of a good one.  I haven't done standing military presses in probably 2 years, nor power cleans either.  I wouldn't consider my overall body strength suffering because of it; seated I workout with 225 on military press and  i work out with well in the 400s for squat.  Someone who does your suggested exercises are not necessarily better than my recommended exercises as far as football is concerned.


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## Johnnny (Sep 25, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> Johnny, dude seriously, I'm trying to be nice now. Why did you post up what a Big 10 school's program is? STANDING MILITARY PRESSES are not a better "test" of overhead power. In fact, speaking strictly on the deltoids, a seated military press might be better because you can't use the LEGS to propel the weight from a static position.
> 
> I think squats ARE BETTER FOR DEVELOPING strength itself, in place than power cleans. Just because they are parts of many strength training routines (AND DONT GET ME WRONG, THEY ARE FINE EXERCISES) they do NOT HAVE TO BE THE CRUX of a good one. I haven't done standing military presses in probably 2 years, nor power cleans either. I wouldn't consider my overall body strength suffering because of it; seated I workout with 225 on military press and i work out with well in the 400s for squat. Someone who does your suggested exercises are not necessarily better than my recommended exercises as far as football is concerned.



I posted the routine to show that the weight room is just as important than the overall techniques of the game.

I never said power cleans were better than squats, I didn't even bring up power cleans, you did.

But back b4 my thyroid condition I was using 235lbs for 3-5 reps on seated military press in the front & about 210-215lbs on standing military press in the front for 3-5 but I do both now.

Here are some other routines:

Example: Body Building exercises sequence from large to small muscle groups.

Before Sequencing      After Sequencing

Bench Press           Half Squat
Barbell Curl             Deadlift
Reverse Curl           Leg Extension
Half Squat              Leg Curl
Deadlift                  Bench Press
Shrug                    Shrug     
Leg Extension          Barbell Curl
Leg Curl                 Reverse Curl

Example: Weightlifting exercises sequence from fast to slow.

Before Sequencing     After Sequencing

Clean and Jerk        Drop Snatch
Power Clean           Snatch
Snatch High Pull      Snatch Pull
Snatch                Push Press 
Push Press            Power Clean
Drop Snatch           Clean & Jerk        
Full Squat            Full Squat


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## tucker01 (Sep 25, 2004)

Let's see Johnnny played Canadian High School football   prolly the equivilant of playing with your budies in a park in the States.  And Canadian College Football  Equivlant of a US High School Team.

So your 7 Years of experience in football really equate to 7 months.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 25, 2004)

Yeah nobody went the Canadian route yet good job Ian, and quit kicking my ass in fantasy football while your at it.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 25, 2004)

Damn Mcnabb


----------



## tucker01 (Sep 25, 2004)

I think I may lose this week


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## BigKev75 (Sep 25, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Premier
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Have you EVER played football on a team?  Highschool, College etc?


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 25, 2004)

IanDaniel



> Let's see Johnnny played Canadian High School football
> prolly the equivilant of playing with your budies in a park in the States.
> And Canadian College Football  Equivlant of a US High School
> Team.



Seeing how you're a fellow Canadian this really saddens, me. This is the type of comment I would expect from "CERTAIN" Americans, not a Canadian.

Why is Canadian football not good enough for you? Football is football no matter where it's played.

personally I think the CFL has more productive players that go to the NFL than NFLEL does. Brock Lesnar was so bad in Minnesota that he was sent to NFLEL & has to wait until next spring to even play.

Look at Rocket Ismail who played Canadian football for years b4 going to the NFL.

Doug Flutie was born in the CFL along with his teammate Steve Christie who both had very, very sucessful careers in the NFL.

BigKev75



> Have you EVER played football on a team? Highschool, College etc?



Have you even read the entire thread? 

Or wait forgive me, you're probably new here as you wouldn't know that football is why I started training in highschool in 1993.

I played running back for 7yrs.


----------



## PreMier (Sep 25, 2004)

You think Canada has mor productive players that go to the NFL?  Now I know your a dumb fuck. LMAO!!!


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Sep 25, 2004)

Dude, Canadian pro football is a joke.


----------



## madden player (Sep 25, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> ..Seeing how you're a fellow Canadian this really saddens, me. This is the type of comment I would expect from "CERTAIN" Americans, not a Canadian...


I thought the same thing..

I don't agree with you about Canada being a hotbed for football talent, but I don't know if that was your point??.  It is a fact though that alot of NFL greats got their start in the CFL but all the athletes that come to mind were American and went to American schools.  You can probably name a few Canadian athletes that went to Canadian schools then the CFL then to the NFL but I can't.


----------



## madden player (Sep 25, 2004)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> Dude, Canadian pro football is a joke.


Ouch..Duncan you are going to hurt our fealings and make us some sad Canadians ...Johnnny take pride in the fact that we own their ass when it comes to Hockey.


----------



## Sean0621 (Sep 25, 2004)

You or Canada can't take credit for Doug Flutie being great, he's a product of Boston College and probably their greatest quarterback, and he was born and raised in the USA. It's kinda like how the US has a ton of Hockey teams yet hardly any US players. But uh anyways Doug Flutie was born in Manchester, Maryland. Oh and the Ismael brothers were born in New Jersey the missile went to Syracuse and the Rocket went to Notre Dame. God you suck Johnnny.


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## Johnnny (Sep 25, 2004)

Premier



> You think Canada has mor productive players that go to the NFL?  Now I
> know your a dumb fuck. LMAO!!!



First you need to learn to spell as the word mor has an e at the end of it.

2nd, many NFL stars started out in the CFL 

3rd if your "American" players are soooooo much better than our Canadian football players than why is it that more than half the players in the CFL are from the United States?

I have my opinions about that already.

Duncans Donuts



> Dude, Canadian pro football is a joke.



Not true, our pro players are just as big, strong & fast as the American players as half the players in the league come from the US.

Montreal's O line averages 305lbs & 6ft2 average in height.

Our recievers are just as big & strong & fast as others.

& our QB went to Utah State which I know isn't known for football, but he is a great QB.

He had a try out with Pittsburgh Steelers but they didn't take him b/c of one aspect, that they said he couldn't scramble yet in a playoff game last year he took it up the middle for a 50 yard TD run himself so that's BS.

Are LB's & secondary are just as fast, big/strong & have just as much talent as the NFL players.

But the league will never pay them the same amount.


----------



## PreMier (Sep 25, 2004)

Sorry, I forgot to use the SpelChek.  You fucking English teacher..


----------



## Sean0621 (Sep 25, 2004)

johnnny you know what the canadian Football League is. Left overs of whoever could not make it into the NFL.


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## Johnnny (Sep 25, 2004)

Sean0621



> You or Canada can't take credit for Doug Flutie being great, he's a product of Boston College and probably their greatest quarterback, and he was born and raised in the USA. It's kinda like how the US has a ton of Hockey teams yet hardly any US players. But uh anyways Doug Flutie was born in Manchester, Maryland. Oh and the Ismael brothers were born in New Jersey the missile went to Syracuse and the Rocket went to Notre Dame. God you suck Johnnny.



Very good Sean!!

You looked up some history on the internet.

I knew that along time ago.

I never said either of them were Canadian, but their career's began in Canada along with other NFL greats.

But if it wasn't for the CFL Doug Flutie wouldn't have had the chance he did to prove himself.

Steve Christie the MVP NFL kicker however is Canadian & grew up in Oakvill Ontario not too far from Toronto. A friend of the family went to highschool with Steve & he had a great NFL kicking career.


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## Johnnny (Sep 25, 2004)

Premier



> Sorry, I forgot to use the SpelChek.  You fucking English teacher..



No english teacher here, just point out someone who can't write & probably can't read.

You even spelled SpelChek wrong, it's Spell Check.

Take some basic english man.


----------



## madden player (Sep 25, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> ..3rd if your "American" players are soooooo much better than our Canadian football players than why is it that more than half the players in the CFL are from the United States?..


Hmmm.....What are you trying to say here?? ...It sounds like you are saying we are lacking in Canadian talent.

I am a very proud Canadian and I am not going to take part in any Canada vs. America thread because it is pointless.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 25, 2004)

Sean0621



> johnnny you know what the canadian Football League is. Left overs of whoever could not make it into the NFL.



Here is an agreement with the NFL & CFL: http://www.nfl.com/international/story/7459802

So Doug Flutie was a leftover?

Rocket Ismail was a leftover?


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 25, 2004)

Madden Player



> I am a very proud Canadian and I am not going to take part in any Canada vs. America thread because it is pointless.



Very good point it is pointless, but I only pointed it out b/c what Sean0621 & Premier started up with.

But I never said that Canada has a shortage of football talent, just pointing out that we have many Americans & NFLers on our rosters.

But as to the Americans who play here, they aren't leftovers, as many of them had extrordanary NFL careers, won Super Bowls, went to Pro Bowls & broke NFL records, doesn't sound like left over material to me.


----------



## PreMier (Sep 25, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Premier
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hey you dense fuck.  I spelled it right.  Just look at how its spelled below the quick reply box.  I was being sarcastic.  I also type fast.. so I am not looking at every letter of every word unlike yourself.  Don't assume anything about my education, because I bet it puts yours to shame.  Probably more so than Duncans 40 and lifts put yours to shame 

BTW, you forgot to capitolize "English" in your post... you jackass.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 25, 2004)

Here is another link:

http://www.nflcanada.com/NFLCanadaNews02/0627.html

Premier



> Don't assume anything about my education, because I bet it puts yours to shame. Probably more so than Duncans 40 and lifts put yours to shame
> 
> BTW, you forgot to capitolize "English" in your post... you jackass.



You really can't spell can you. "capitolize" is spelled capitalize read a book for crying out loud.

What did you graduate with Basket Weaving? Or Swimming Pool Management?

& that's all the "smart" comments you have to say is that Duncans 40 & lifts beats me?

But his 40 only beat mine by a second or 2 give or take a few .seconds no big deal.

& he hasn't mentioned his lifts yet but his seated military press at 225lbs didn't beat mine at about 240lbs give or take a few lbs for about 3-4 reps. I also did about 210-215lbs standing military strict form using shoulders only.

I currently use about 190-195lbs standing for 2-4 reps with strict shoulder only form which is still good.

My lifts b4 my condition beat yours along with my 40.


----------



## madden player (Sep 25, 2004)

Johnnny don't turn this into a pissing contest.


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## tucker01 (Sep 25, 2004)

I am a proud Canadian, but I realize that we as a country have shit development of football players.  Hockey any day of the week our second string team would whoop any countries ass 

The CFL is just a league that the NFL has saved from extinction.  The players that play in it like previously said are players who are overlooked ie Doug Flutie becuase of his size, or just plain wannabes, and guys who don't know when to quit.  Don't get me wrong they are better than the average football player and yes that includes you Johnnny with your 4.5 sec 40   Just because they play in the CFL doesn't mean that Canada developed them.  Most of the Coaches are American as well as the players.  And the only reason there aren't more American players is because the CFL has made rules that make teams carry so many Canadians.


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## madden player (Sep 25, 2004)

IainDaniel said:
			
		

> I am a proud Canadian, but I realize that we as a country have shit development of football players. Hockey any day of the week our second string team would whoop any countries ass
> 
> The CFL is just a league that the NFL has saved from extinction. The players that play in it like previously said are players who are overlooked ie Doug Flutie becuase of his size, or just plain wannabes, and guys who don't know when to quit. Don't get me wrong they are better than the average football player and yes that includes you Johnnny with your 4.5 sec 40  Just because they play in the CFL doesn't mean that Canada developed them. Most of the Coaches are American as well as the players. And the only reason there aren't more American players is because the CFL has made rules that make teams carry so many Canadians.


Well said.


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## madden player (Sep 25, 2004)

Look at Andre "bad moon" Rison, Anyone can correct me if I am wrong but isn't he only playing in Toronto to pay child support or something??


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 25, 2004)

God Johnny, are you really trying to get into this?



> & he hasn't mentioned his lifts yet but his seated military press at 225lbs didn't beat mine at about 240lbs give or take a few lbs for about 3-4 reps. I also did about 210-215lbs standing military strict form using shoulders only.



Current lifts:
Squat: 430 x 16
Rack Deadlift: 645 x 2  (I won't get into regular deadlifts)
Military press: 225 x 7
Closegrip bench press: 260 x 8

For the less important exercises
Barbell curl: 150 x 7
Leg extension: 180 x 4 (per leg)
Behind the back shrug: 335 x 5


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## Johnnny (Sep 25, 2004)

madden player



> Johnnny don't turn this into a pissing contest.



I'm not turning it into anything, just responding to Premier's typical jackassed remarks.

Randy shafted him really badly in another thread, now I know why.

IanDaniel



> I am a proud Canadian, but I realize that we as a country have shit development of football players. Hockey any day of the week our second string team would whoop any countries ass
> 
> The CFL is just a league that the NFL has saved from extinction. The players that play in it like previously said are players who are overlooked ie Doug Flutie becuase of his size, or just plain wannabes, and guys who don't know when to quit. Don't get me wrong they are better than the average football player and yes that includes you Johnnny with your 4.5 sec 40  Just because they play in the CFL doesn't mean that Canada developed them. Most of the Coaches are American as well as the players. And the only reason there aren't more American players is because the CFL has made rules that make teams carry so many Canadians.



First let me say you're starting to sound like some of these guys here.

But yes the CFL players are better than me, I never said they weren't, but had I kept playing & not had my thyroid condition I "might've" had a chance as at the time my coach had an in with the Montreal Alouettes.

But the players truly blossomed in the CFL, had the CFL not given them a chance, they'd be businessmen or something & would not even had played football & wouldn't have played in the NFL


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## Johnnny (Sep 25, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> God Johnny, are you really trying to get into this?



No just proving to Premier that my lifts were just as good as yours. I too possessed 405lb squat legs parallel to the floor for several reps just as you do.

I currently just use between 315-350lbs legs parallel to the floor for 8-12 reps as I'm trying to keep my knees healthy now & don't need to go heavy.

Anyway I've had fun here but I'm off to go & see Montreal Alouettes beat up on The Blue Bombers with several of my teammates that I was close with.
We'll be on the 50 yard line.

Madden Player

http://www.cfl.ca/CFLTeams/tor_roster.html

You are correct that Andre Rison plays for Toronto. He is one of my favorite WR. Yo Murphy who won the a Super Bowl ring with The Rams against Tenesse also plays for Ottawa.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 25, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> But as to the Americans who play here, they aren't leftovers, as many of them had extrordanary NFL careers, won Super Bowls, went to Pro Bowls & broke NFL records, doesn't sound like left over material to me.



Again you are a moron, all those pro bowlers went to the cFL after their NFL careers were finished. Not one of those pro bowlers went to the cFL in their prime. And if they did happen to thrive in the cFL after putting up poor numbers their last couple of years in the NFL, then what does that tell you about the cFL, well I'll tell you, it further exploits how inferior the cFL is to the NFL. Oh and I'm glad you point out that a famous kicker was from Canada, actually many NFL kickers are foreigners, usually former soccer players, but taking pride in producing players for the most pussy position in Football is a new one John John. Enjoy your fucking game of two teams I've never even heard of, hopefully your team gets blown out.


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## BigKev75 (Sep 25, 2004)

Im glad I didn't read all the posts in this THREAD.  To much arguing.

CFL - Give players from college time to mature and develop their skills.

Also stated by Johnny that over 50% of the CFL players are Americans then how are Americans not better?  Since they are playing in Canada.

As far as former NFL Pro Bowlers/Stars.  Most people will not admit to them selfs that their Carrier is over.  People love the game and will go to the CFL to keep playing.


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## Johnnny (Sep 26, 2004)

Sean0621



> Again you are a moron, all those pro bowlers went to the cFL after
> their NFL careers were finished. Not one of those pro bowlers went to the
> cFL in their prime. And if they did happen to thrive in the cFL after
> putting up poor numbers their last couple of years in the NFL, then what
> ...



Fine you want to get into an insulting match?

You really are the idiot here.

I also noticed you didn't even capitalize the c in CFL but you capitalized the n in NFL how cute & ignorant.



IF the CFL didn't give ppl like Doug Flutie or the Rocket Ismail they'd be working in an office or washing cars.

Fine say that the CFL didn't develop these types of overlooked players. But if they didn't play in the CFL they wouldn't have played at all & that's the bottom line.

The NFL scouts & teams watch the CFL players all the time looking for new talent or players who might not have gotten a fair chance just as this link http://www.nflcanada.com/NFLCanadaNews02/0627.html proves.

& here is another link http://www.nflcanada.com/NFLCanadaNews02/0627.html you can look up any player you want using the alphabet & see the status of their contracts & what current team owns their rights.

Well over half the inactive players you will see there aren't even playing in the CFL so that business about it being a "leftover league for Americans" is full of it.

Here's a perfect example of RB Autry Denson who spent about 6 or 7yrs in the NFL on big teams who already had top running backs such as Chicago who drafted him & they had & still have Anthony Thomas from Michigan & you're not going to replace him, he went to Miami who at the time had Ricky Williams & nobody was about to replace him, he also went to Tampa Bay who had Michael Pittman & FB Mike Alstott, no chance there, Indianapolis who has Edgerrin James top notch, & then back to Chicago who still had & has Anthony Thomas.

This is al ot of the reasons why players get cut from their teams as the teams already have a top player for whatever the position is so the team doesn't need to spend money on extra players when they have a top player at a particular position.


----------



## Sean0621 (Sep 26, 2004)

That's a great post Johnnny, but how does this support your original argument that the cFL is any better than the NFL. Oh and players who never get any playtime in the NFL that leave to play in the cFL are still leftovers.


----------



## madden player (Sep 26, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> ..I also noticed you didn't even capitalize the c in CFL but you capitalized the n in NFL how cute & ignorant..http://


Yeah what's up with that??..I hope you are not disrespecting my country??..maybe you use the small c because you have a small d***.


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 26, 2004)

Johnny using anecdotes to proove a point doesn't work.  Anecdotes typically are exceptions, not the rule.  You can come up with a heroic story of obscurity in any scene, but it's not typical.  The NFL is so vasty superior to the CFL that the argument itself is absurd.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 26, 2004)

No madden I'm not doin it to piss all of Canada off, just Johnnny, so take no offense.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 26, 2004)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> Johnny using anecdotes to proove a point doesn't work.  Anecdotes typically are exceptions, not the rule.  You can come up with a heroic story of obscurity in any scene, but it's not typical.  The NFL is so vasty superior to the CFL that the argument itself is absurd.


Ever notice that he likes to argue the exception like it's the rule.


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## madden player (Sep 26, 2004)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> ..The NFL is so vasty superior to the CFL that the argument itself is absurd.


No arguement here.  It is like comparing apples to oranges..How many athletes in the CFL have regular 9-5 jobs in the off season just to pay the bills??..I may be wrong but I think that there is quite a few.  I don't think this happens all that much in anyother pro league sport in North America.  Someone please correct me it I am wrong.

It is a very competitive leauge though, and I like the Canadian rules but I can't see a game between the "Grey Cup" champs and the "Superbowl" champs being competitive..It would be a blowout IMO.


----------



## madden player (Sep 26, 2004)

Sean0621 said:
			
		

> No madden I'm not doin it to piss all of Canada off, just Johnnny, so take no offense.


Cool


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 26, 2004)

First I never meant to say that the nfl was better than the CFL.

I said many of the players in the CFL are nFL material who have been overlooked such as Autry Denson. Another great running back who played for NorthWestern while Ron Powlus (another over looked player by the nFL who only had one good WR Derrick Mayes who could actually catch his most of the time perfect passes, btw he's still with Phili) was at Notre Dame as I saw this Notre Dame Vs. North Western game was

running back Darnell Autry, full size, full speed & strength. He was drafted by The Eagles to the nFL in 1997. He lasted about 3yrs in the nFL & then that was it. He wasn't even taken by the CFL which means that he didn't get adequite playing time to prove him self so neither the CFL or the nFL decided to keep him.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 26, 2004)

I saw the first Helmet to Helmet hit in the nFL this year.

It was during the New York Giants & Cleevland Browns game.


Gibril Wilson DB #28 of the Giants dove his head right into the Browns WR Andre King towards the sidelines.

He did it on purpose to be a jerk. He literally dove his head first right into the face of Andre King's face mask & Gibril Wilson & the Giants were penalized 15 yards.

I've seen many diving hits such as this hit & you're normally supposed to keep your head below neck level to avoid these helmet to helmet hits & from the instant replay, Gibril Wilson could've clearly avoided that helmet to helmet hit & you could hear the hit from the camera that's how hard it was.

& Gibril Wilson also had a guilty look on his face after he did that hit.

What a fn' jerk Gibril Wilson is.

But luckily no one was hurt or at least not at the moment.

I know our DB's were taught if diving hits such as that one by the sidelines were needed, they were taught to keep the head below the other guys neck with their shoulder going into the oppents upper body.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 26, 2004)

Sean0621



> That's a great post Johnnny, but how does this support your original
> argument that the cFL is any better than the NFL. Oh and players who
> never get any playtime in the NFL that leave to play in the cFL are still
> leftovers.



I never said the CFL was better than the nFL. I said it has almost as much talent as the nFL.

IMO many players & their capabilities are overlooked so the CFL decides to give these players the chance that the nFL didn't.

Like I said if you're a player on a team in the nFL who already is set for at least a few years in a particular position despite the individual's talent, he won't see much playing time b/c they already have a star player under a full contract.

So from what the nFL players I've met & actually sat down with & talked to have told me that there are many guys who get over looked.

But you didn't even answer the big question, what about the guys who are inactive in the nFL & don't even make it to the CFL?

Someone like TE David LaFleur drafted by Dallas in 1997 who played for a few years, Dallas owns his rights still & he's not playing ball at all anywhere.

& many of the CLF players play there just for the love of the game.

I had one member here who plays DB in the NCAA in division 1 or 2 I forget, ask me many questions about the CFL as he just like many CFL players just want to play for the love of the game.

To me I have much more respect than these new "super fly" greedy assed rookies who only want $50 million when they've never even played a game.

I don't have respect for these guys.


----------



## madden player (Sep 26, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> ..But luckily no one was hurt or at least not at the moment..


Post concussion syndrome..

It is sad to see a once great athlete that can't put a simple sentence together, But it is an occupational hazard.  At the NFL level they are all big boys and they know the risks involved with their sport.  It is the risk you take.  I'd trade a concussion or two for a career in pro sports.


----------



## Sean0621 (Sep 26, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Sean0621
> 
> 
> 
> nFL


You're so original Johnnny.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Sep 26, 2004)

You can't judge intent based on a knee jerk observation, Johnny.


----------



## gr81 (Sep 26, 2004)

^^rubish... of course I can jump to inane conclusions and pronounce everyone who falls under my category of accidental ineptness as a jerk! I am johnnny.. hear me roar!


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## Johnnny (Sep 27, 2004)

Sean0621



> You're so original Johnnny.



Now you see how childish you are being.


Anyway the helmet to helmet hit Girbril Wilson gave to the Browns WR Andre King wasn't necessary. He did it on purpose to be a jerk.

He could've kept his head down like you're supposed to.

I still stand by my opinion that these hits are avoidable.


----------



## Sean0621 (Sep 27, 2004)

The real shame Johnnny is that you cannot see how stupid you sound and how your stubbornness is a weakness.


----------



## gr81 (Sep 27, 2004)

> I still stand by my opinion



yes you do, hell I bet every Defensive player from the probowl could disagree with you and you still would sit there all hard headed wouldn't ya


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 27, 2004)

Sean0621



> The real shame Johnnny is that you cannot see how stupid you sound and  how your stubbornness is a weakness.



& the fact that you're a moron is your weakness.

gr81



> yes you do, hell I bet every Defensive player from the probowl could disagree with you and you still would sit there all hard headed wouldn't ya



Not true, I've also been on several nFL trips over the last several years & I met one DT from Buffalo as Buffalo isn't very far from my cousins house, I met & spoke with DT Pat Williams who in his eyes helmet to helmet hits are avoidable.

From Pat Williams point of view he strongly felt that helmet to helmet hits are avoidable & not part of the game.

But you guys probably won't believe me.

I don't see why you ppl think it's so hard to meet the pro atheletes. You go to some games, you know ppl who work at stadiums & you get to meet them after the game is finished not so special or VIP.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 27, 2004)

Wow that must be the first thing you talk about every time you meet an NFL Player. Hi my name is johnnny, you played in the NFL right, then you would agree that Helmet to Helmet hits are avoidable, thanks have a nice day. Jesus johnnny I just don't believe a damn thing you say, your story is as thin as Mary Kate Olsen.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 27, 2004)

Sean0621



> Wow that must be the first thing you talk about every <meet an NFL Player. Hi my name is johnnny, you played in the NFL right, then you would agree that Helmet to Helmet hits are avoidable, thanks have a nice day. Jesus johnnny I just don't believe a damn thing you say, your story is as thin as Mary Kate Olsen




Sorry dude, I don't give a sh!t what you believe.

But no that's not how it went down. My cousin & I were actually invited out by Pat Tillman & a couple of his friends for drinks later on in the evening.

& my cousin & I were able to talk football for awhile along with other subjects.

It really is no big deal or that hard meeting pro athletes, actors & wrestlers.

I got to meet Sylvester Stallone when he was in Toronto at the Molson Indy filming the movie Driven b/c my buddy in TO has a private pit suite & his father has a lot of connections there.

I've met several WWE wrestlers at my gym so it really isn't that big of a deal meeting these ppl.

I don't know why you think it's soooo impossible.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Sep 27, 2004)

Wow.  I've seen some absurd hokum on the internet, but the idea that after meeting a pro athlete you immediately brought up a point that relates to this argument in which said athlete agreed with you - not in theory, but EXACTLY, COMPLETELY, IDENTICALLY HAD THE SAME POINT YOU HAD - that idea is ludicrous.

I will repeat:  ludicrous.  I know a man named Gerald Willhite who played for the Denver Broncos for nearly a decade as a starting tailback.  Live right down the street from him.  In the 100 times I've talked to him, not once did I bring up helmet to helmet shots.  But Johnny meets a pro player and brings it up in one conversation.  Amazing.

lu·di·crous    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (ld-krs)
adj.

Laughable or hilarious because of obvious absurdity or incongruity. See Synonyms at foolish.

God bless you Johnnny, but you accused me of taking steroids, then called me a liar when I said you were wrong, THEN called my brother (officer Pearce) a liar, then you called everyone who rallied to my support liars; now it's time for me to call you a liar, sir.  You are a complete and utter liar.  You are the biggest internet liar I've met, and I've had 15 year old guys tell me that their penises were over a foot long.  Your credibility is somewhere between Scott Peterson and a homeless lunatic rambling to nobody on a street corner how he invented tungsten.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 27, 2004)

So what did Sylvester Stallone and Pat Tillman think of Helmet to helmet hits. johnnny I don't know which is harder to believe whether or not you actually meet and hang out with all these sports stars, or whether or not to believe you actually have a friend.


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## Johnnny (Sep 27, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> Wow. I've seen some absurd hokum on the <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=internet&v=56">internet</a>, but the idea that after meeting a pro athlete you immediately brought up a point that relates to this argument in which said athlete agreed with you - not in theory, but EXACTLY, COMPLETELY, IDENTICALLY HAD THE SAME POINT YOU HAD - that idea is ludicrous.
> 
> I will repeat: ludicrous. I know a man named Gerald Willhite who played for the Denver Broncos for nearly a decade as a starting tailback. Live right down the street from him. In the 100 times I've talked to him, not once did I bring up helmet to helmet shots. But Johnny did in one conversation. Amazing.
> 
> ...



The helmet to helmet discussion came about during the course of the evening as my cousin was discussing defensive line playing as my cousin was a defensive tackle at about 285lbs at around 6ft4 & the helmet to helmet hitting subject came about.

& this was in September 2000.

I never said your brother the cop was a liar, I only said that cops were some of the most dishonest ppl involved in their city's organized crime ring.

But you can't compare me meeting atheletes to your steroid use, totally 2 different things. 

Like I said it's not that hard to meet these actors, athletes & so on it's just a matter of being in the right place at the right time & even knowing certain ppl.


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 27, 2004)

MY STEROID USE?  PARDON ME SIR?

Camarosuper6 is my brother.  When he said I'm clean, you said I was taking steroids.  When he said that I was clean again, you said I was taking steroids.  SO WAS HE JUST CONFUSED AS HE LIVED WITH ME FOR 20 YEARS (he moved away 2 months away), or were you meaning he was a liar?  Or are we still lying?


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## Johnnny (Sep 27, 2004)

Sean0621



> So what did Sylvester Stallone and Pat Tillman think of Helmet to helmet hits. johnnny I don't know which is harder to believe whether or not you actually meet and hang out with all these sports stars, or whether or not to believe you actually have a friend.



Now you're getting personal.

You don't know sh!t about who I know, who I've met or what I've discussed with these ppl.

Not too mention the friends I have, you don't know them as I made many descent friends while playing football.

But you're starting to convince me that you don't have any friends as you're wasting your time trying to insult me when there's plenty of better things you could be doing.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Sep 27, 2004)

Nobody fucking cares how big your cousin is, don't list the stats. Nobody is impressed.


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## Johnnny (Sep 27, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> MY STEROID USE? PARDON ME SIR?
> 
> Camarosuper6 is my brother. When he said I'm clean, you said I was taking steroids. When he said that I was clean again, you said I was taking steroids. SO WAS HE JUST CONFUSED AS HE LIVED WITH ME FOR 20 YEARS (he moved away 2 months away), or were you meaning he was a liar? Or are we still lying?



Well your brother could very well be jucing with you for all we know & just backing you up here.

I've heard about incidences such as this, 2 brothers keeping their steroid use a secret so all their friends think they're Superman.



> Nobody fucking cares how big your cousin is, don't list the stats. Nobody is impressed.



Well you've listed your military presses, your 405lb squat, your 4.327 or whatever 40yard dash & so on so I'm listing my own stats & my cousin as he's bigger than you even now at 250lbs.

Well you're starting up again so it's a waste of time.

I personally don't care if you believe me or not, but I'd believe someone who's met athletes & actors over ppl & steroid use as it's much more of a common thing to lie about.


----------



## PreMier (Sep 27, 2004)

I dont believe you have met anyone either.  You are a compulsive liar IMO.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Sep 27, 2004)

Are you fucking joking?  Every lift I posted was a response to YOUR BRAGGING.  DO YOU NOT RECALL?  And my squat is 430 pounds, for 18 reps.  Sorry, but I feel the need to brag about everything because I feel that if I toss out impressive numbers then my dumb fucking argument suddenly has validity.

Me and my brother are pretending to be supermen now.  You're a hypocrite, you really are a goddamn hypocrite.  You accuse other people of taking steroids after you make up the dumbest stories anyone has ever heard.  And my brother and me are conspiring against everyone, and we really juice. 

You accusing him of juicing now too, I assume?  Get some proof before you throw a personal accusation.  The story you bring up is in the context of the conversation, and is subject to speculation because it sounds ridiculous.  How was steroid use ever a part of the context of this debate when you brought it up?  Even your INSULTS are stupid, because they make no sense relative to the debate.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 28, 2004)

Premier



> I dont believe you have met anyone either. You are a compulsive liar IMO.




Like I said it's not that hard or impossible to meet these celebrities & athletes.

IMO you are just jealous.

It's just a matter of being in the right place at the right time & knowing the right ppl. If it wasn't for my security friend who was working there, I wouln't have been able to meet Pat Williams (not Pat Tillman as someone said as he played for Arizona not Bufallo & was a DB not a DT).

So it really isn't much of a big deal as for RB John Avery I met him at a Toronto Argo's game as he's there now b/c he doesn't want to retire yet. Mercury Hayes WR played in Montreal b/c he wasn't ready to retire either & I met him at my friends club, nothing out of the ordinary.

Duncans Donuts



> Are you fucking joking? Every lift I posted was a response to YOUR BRAGGING. DO YOU NOT RECALL? And my squat is 430 pounds, for 18 reps. Sorry, but I feel the need to brag about everything because I feel that if I toss out impressive numbers then my dumb fucking argument suddenly has validity.
> 
> Me and my brother are pretending to be supermen now. You're a hypocrite, you really are a goddamn hypocrite. You accuse other people of taking steroids after you make up the dumbest stories anyone has ever heard. And my brother and me are conspiring against everyone, and we really juice.
> 
> You accusing him of juicing now too, I assume? Get some proof before you throw a personal accusation. The story you bring up is in the context of the conversation, and is subject to speculation because it sounds ridiculous. How was steroid use ever a part of the context of this debate when you brought it up? Even your INSULTS are stupid, because they make no sense relative to the debate.



I had to "brag" as you put it about my lifts, experiences, speed, weight & so on b/c you & others started saying that I didn't ever play football, that I was a couch potatoe playing video games in my basement & said



> Johnny, nobody cares that you claim you played football



But then again I don't even have to prove myself to anybody.

As for your lifts, many of them are steroid lifts with the lifts performed by steroid users I've seen.

Next you'll say when you "take your first cycle" you'll be squatting 700lbs, barbell curling 200lbs, close gripping 325lbs & deadlifting 800lbs.

I've seen ppl using steroids for as long as 10yrs lifting what you "claim to be lifing naturally" with steroids & they woudln't have reached those lifts w/o steroids.

I notice you never list your flat bench press or incline bench press however.

But your lifts are certainly steroid type lifts. One bodybuilder at my gym who is about 31yrs old & been training since he was 15yrs old & been taking steroids since he was about 17yrs old is about 5ft11, 255lbs ripped with 21 inch arms ripped that is & his close grip is between 270-315lbs.

He is at least honest & open with everyone about his steroid use for years.

& you say you're doing 260lbs for several reps naturally along with your 650lbs deadlift?

Give me a break.

Another body builder with 19 or 20 inch arms ripped & both 
deadlift/squats 415lbs for 20 reps & he's on GH, & other anabolics who's been on them for years.

But this guy inparticular is dishonest about his GH/anabolics use.

You're telling me you just happen to be lifting what these anafreaks for years are lifting, you're lifting those same lifts naturally at 20yrs old while these guys are almost 30 & in their 30's?

Again give me a break. 

& you say you're 230lbs with less than %10BF naturally? Whatever is all I have to say.

As I said lying about steroids is a much more common thing to do. These ppl exist in every gym usually in numbers.

You also react very, very defensively which isn't a surprise.

As for me, I have nothing to hide, never taken steroids & never will.

As for the ppl I've met & had conversations with, well that's all true, it's not hard to meet these ppl, not hard at all, right place, right time, right connections.


----------



## madden player (Sep 28, 2004)

WTF is with accusing someone of taking Steroids..Johnnny I hope you don't accuse people of drug use to their face because something really bad could happen.  I am a natural bodybuilder and I can speak for some of the naturals I know; THEY DON'T LIKE BEING ACCUSED OF ILLEGAL DRUG USE!!..some take it as a compliment, but don't ever be surprised if you continue to go around pointing your finger at people and accusing them of drug use that you get a bloody nose in the process...Is this something you ONLY do on the internet or do you accuse everyone in the gym of juicing to their face.??

I already posted regarding this topic in this thread and with an attitude like yours you will find it very hard to ever make progress in the gym.  It seems to me that you are convinced that anyone with a decent amount of muscle mass is a drug user..You may have had a couple valid points about football, but you are talking out of your ass now.

I am sorry Johnnny, you can't judge a book by it's cover.  It is just so unfair to look at someone and say "Damn they are huge, how much drugs do they use??"


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## Johnnny (Sep 28, 2004)

madden player



> WTF is with accusing someone of taking Steroids..Johnnny I hope you
> don't accuse people of drug use to their face because something really bad
> could happen.  I am a natural bodybuilder and I can speak for some of
> the naturals I know; THEY DON'T LIKE BEING ACCUSED OF ILLEGAL DRUG
> ...



Actually I have & still do as it's ppl I know & they don't mind.

More than half the ppl are honest about their drug use with me & it's no big deal while other ppl lie about it & other ppl have come out of the closet so to speak years later about their drug use & that they've lied for a long time & in fact if they're ppl I'm close friends with they even apologize to me for lying to me all this time about their obvious drug use.

So most ppl don't react with violence as you think they do except for maybe Duncans Donuts as he gets pretty defensive which tells me something.

Most are actually pretty cool about it even if they lie. Some of the liars however react defensively such as Duncan has & these are some of the individuals who later are open about their drug use.


----------



## madden player (Sep 28, 2004)

I agree, some people lie about their drug use;  Not only with steroids but with alcohol/marijuana/cocaine..ect.  It is not cool to accuse someone of drug use, but what does Duncan have to gain by lying??  Until you see Duncan with a loaded syringe in his hand or he says otherwise, he is natural. 

Case closed.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 28, 2004)

madden player



> I agree, some people lie about their drug use;  Not only with steroids
> but with alcohol/marijuana/cocaine..ect.  It is not cool to accuse
> someone of drug use, but what does Duncan have to gain by lying??  Until
> you see Duncan with a loaded syringe in his hand or he says otherwise, he
> is natural.



What does Duncan have to gain by lying?

That's pretty simple & it's what all the steroid liars have to gain, everybody will think they're Superman but natural w/o steroids.

That's what one of my close friends who just went off steroids permanently b/c of an abnormally increased blood pressure at 28yrs old & he was on them for 11yrs mainly for football & then decided to keep taking them to maintain a 6ft3 275lbs body having been about 295lbs (not ripped of course as he was a defensive tackle, & no I don't mean my cousin, a close friend I played with).

He confessed to me long ago in highschool that he wanted ppl to think he was this huge & strong just b/c he was born that way. I'll admit he had great genetics as he was 230lbs with low BF% in the 10th grade & then started with steroids after that season as he wanted to make the transition from MLB to DT & 230 at 6ft3 wasn't big enough to play DT.

But that's what Duncan & many other steroid users who lie have to gain, everbody will think they're Superman & they're this huge natural beast of strength & mass with %10 or less BF.

Back in the day Arnold & his peers claimed to be natural, no drugs while Arnold was busy pumping himself full of D-Bol & Primobolan 2 of his old favorites. & then the guy 20 some odd years later has a triple bypass surgery while Mike Mentzer dies of liver failure & RB Walter Payton dies of Liver Cancer at 45yrs old which isn't normal & everyone knows that the Liver is one of the main arteries that anabolic steroids & GH affect the most.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 28, 2004)

Damn numb nuts now your accusing Camero of juicing, and you called him a dirty cops and all cops dirty, that's fucking awesome johnnny, I love how you generalize shit, in your mind there are no good cops, right. You are such a fuck, and let me say this about you having friends. If you are anything like this in real life I can see most people looking at you like you are completely nuts after about 5 minutes of talking to you. You seem so socially inept it amazes everyone that talks to you. You argue with people until you alienate yourself from everyone to make a point out of nothing and it's usually the wrong point. Then when someone proves you wrong you start making accusations that they use steroids, and that they are a dirty cop. What's funny is, the only person who was being a prick to you was me, but yet you fired back at Duncan and Camero, and let me tell you that's a character flaw. You are the kind of guy that goes to work(McDonalds) has a rough day ( yelled at for dropping the fries to many times) and goes home and takes it out on his girlfriend ( your rubber doll). How does it feel to be accused of something serious johnnny, as far as I'm concerned you beat women, I'll bet you can't prove me wrong either, just like Duncan couldn't prove you wrong. Oh and johnnny only the bottom ten percent of the male gender beat up on girls, so good job asshole.


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## Johnnny (Sep 28, 2004)

Sean0621



> Damn numb nuts now your accusing Camero of juicing, and you called him
> a dirty cops and all cops dirty, that's fucking awesome johnnny, I love
> how you generalize shit, in your mind there are no good cops, right.
> You are such a fuck, and let me say this about you having friends. If you
> ...



What an idiotic arrogant jerk you are.

I personally don't give a shit what you think.

You don't know me nor do I care if you care, & you don't know the ppl I know or have met.

Personally you can say or accuse me of whatever you want if it makes you feel better b/c deep down you know you're wrong than so be it.

But as I've said about half the steroid users I've met are liars b/c they want everyone to think they're Superman naturally & the other half of the steroid users are honest about it. 

Those are the ppl I respect.

As far as my friends are concered & my experiences are concerned I could care less about what you think or believe b/c you make me laugh, wasting your time on something like this on an internet chat forum when you could be doing something more constructive like training or going out with women & friends or work.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 28, 2004)

Dude I don't talk to scumbags who beat their gfs.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 28, 2004)

You are the lowest form of scum, and the worst type of bully you fucking scumbag


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## Sean0621 (Sep 28, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Sean0621
> 
> wasting your time on something like this on an internet chat forum when you could be doing something more constructive like training or going out with women & friends or work.


The fact that you even say this too me is just hilarious, or the fact that anyone on an internet forum would say this to me is hilarious. Tell me johnnny how many more thousand posts than me do you have on here, not to mention I've heard you were a member of several other forums you were banned from, and for me IM is my first and only Internet forum that I've ever posted in or really go to for that matter, eat your own words you fucking scumbag.


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 28, 2004)

I will not sit by idly and let you slander me with accusations that I have used illegal drugs.  I am considering taking them.  Until that time, which is a decision I can make, you have no right to behave in this manner.



> But that's what Duncan & many other steroid users who lie have to gain, everbody will think they're Superman & they're this huge natural beast of strength & mass with %10 or less BF.





> Most are actually pretty cool about it even if they lie. Some of the liars however react defensively such as Duncan has & these are some of the individuals who later are open about their drug use.



You are a fool.  I'm through calling you names, everyone here knows what you are all about.  WHO DOESN'T ACT DEFENSIVELY WHEN ACCUSED OF TAKING CLASS 3 SCHEDULED SUBSTANCES - WHEN THEY ACTUALLY HAVEN'T DONE IT?  

You know why I'm strong, Johnny?  I'm strong because I workout intelligently.  I don't do what you do (reverse grip curls for idiotic number of sets).  I train smartly, because I understand what effort it takes to be big and strong.

You also asked why I never said my regular flat bench press.  You know why?  Because I do CLOSER GRIPS TO GET A FULLER PECTORAL STRETCH.  I did 295 x 8 reps 3 months ago at my peak for my flat bench press, before I switched to close grips.  Happy now?



> As for your lifts, many of them are steroid lifts with the lifts performed by steroid users I've seen.



Shut up, hater.

Again, I don't think you are allowed to continually print libel about a person (libel being a function of an accusation that can damage someone professionaly, not in the context of a conversation or argument; I.E. calling me a guy who shouldn't play football because i'm injury prone, whereas us calling you a hippie, would be considered acceptable).  This is ultimately out of the context of the conversation, and your UNSATISFIED CLAIMS WHICH YOU REPEAT AS FACT SHOULD STOP.  You want to get back to calling me a liar about football, or lifts, or whatever, I don't care.  But this stuff needs to stop.

li·bel    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (lbl)
n.
A false publication, as in writing, print, signs, or pictures, that damages a person's reputation.

Don't utter another word about me taking steroids, because until I make the decision to do so, I should be spared of such remarks.


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## Sean0621 (Sep 28, 2004)

What I find odd johnnny is how you can see me accusing you of hitting women without having any proof, any different from you accusing Duncan of using steroids. Instead you just react like anyone would react to what I said to you which is "you don't know me for shit". The answer is no I don't, but yet you continue to accuse Duncan of the same thing in the same why I have accused you of beating women. You can't take it but you can sure dish it out, and it's wrong when I do it to you, but ok when you do it to someone else. Dude just admit your wrong and the shit will stop, and stop doing stupid shit like accusing moderators and their brothers of using steroids, it's not cool.


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## Johnnny (Sep 28, 2004)

Sean 0621



> Dude I don't talk to scumbags who beat their gfs.



You are one weird, dumb & childish dude I must give you credit on that.

Duncans Donuts



> You know why I'm strong, Johnny? I'm strong because I workout intelligently. I don't do what you do (reverse grip curls for idiotic number of sets). I train smartly, because I understand what effort it takes to be big and strong.



I don't do reverse grip curls for your information.

So you think that doing 3 exercises, 3 sets each for biceps totaling 9 sets after chest day is too much? 

That's just the right amount for biceps & it's the same for triceps.

What & 225lbs at 5ft10 with %12 BF isn't big enough for you? I know what being big is.

But if you suffered from a thyroid condition as I have, you'd know what' it's like to uncontrolably loose almost 30lbs of mostly muscle mass in less than 4 weeks feels like so don't inuslt me about being small & not knowing what effort is.



> You are a fool. I'm through calling you names, everyone here knows what you are all about. WHO DOESN'T ACT DEFENSIVELY WHEN ACCUSED OF TAKING CLASS 3 SCHEDULED SUBSTANCES - WHEN THEY ACTUALLY HAVEN'T DONE IT?



Not everyone just a couple of you here on this thread as I've read responses about me in the banning members thread.

I chat with many ppl here on this forum via PM's so I don't care what you say.

But you can say that you haven't juiced all you want, that won't change my mind.

One reason is most ppl start juicing before they turn 20 just as Arnold did at 16yrs old, & just as many ppl I've met, they start before your age 20.



> You also asked why I never said my regular flat bench press. You know why? Because I do CLOSER GRIPS TO GET A FULLER PECTORAL STRETCH. I did 295 x 8 reps 3 months ago at my peak for my flat bench press, before I switched to close grips. Happy now?



Well I did 320lbs for my max bench which was just under 100lbs more than my body weight before my thyroid condition occured. But I've always done both flat bench & close grip which is currently at 245lbs for 6-8 reps & was about 265lbs for 3-5 reps.

It still amazes me that you want me to stop this sooo much as if you have something to hide from everyone.

You say your brothers a cop? Well at my gym there was one cop who was dealing steroids secretly to customers in the gym.

But if it hurts you & your ego that badly I will stop, but deep down I will still believe what I believe about your drug use.

You say you're 5ft10 at 230lbs with under %10BF? That was basically Arnold's contest shape & he was about 6ft2 & on a lot of steroids which he claimed to be natural as well.

So you say you're just as big as Arnold with a shorter height w/o drugs? 

Still very difficult to believe just as when they said Arnold was natural.


----------



## Sean0621 (Sep 28, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Sean 0621
> 
> You are one weird, dumb & childish dude I must give you credit on that.


Right back at ya Johnnny, I'm not the one accusing people of using steroids for no apparent reason. I only pointed out that you are dumb and you have more than proved it. When you attack somebody like you attacked Duncan verbally, that just shows you're jealous and you have to tear down his accomplishments to make yourself look better. And you call me childish, well my friend all I have done was use your own little games against you and you couldn't handle it, oh and by responding to me and saying that whatever I say doesn't bother you, it just proves that it does bother you alot, so much that you had to respond. Oh well I'll lay off from now on johnnny have fun trying to tell everyone that Duncan does steroids and Camero is a corrupt cop, see how long they let you get away with it.


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## Johnnny (Sep 28, 2004)

Sean 9621



> Right back at ya Johnnny, I'm not the one accusing people of using
> steroids for no apparent reason. I only pointed out that you are dumb and
> you have more than proved it. When you attack somebody like you attacked
> Duncan verbally, that just shows you're jealous and you have to tear
> ...



Handle it? WTF are you talking about?

You just can't give it up.

I'm not jealous of anyone or anything especially someone who I believe is on steroids & I never said his brother was a corrupt cop, I merely stated that many cops are not honest & involved in their cities crime ring.

As I've stated one cop at my gym was dealing steroids to local customers & using them himself yet everything else that he did was by the book.

Like I said I will stop saying Duncan does roids, but I will continue believing what I believe.

Like I said, Arnold also claimed to be "natural" & look at all the D-Bol & Primobolan he was on for all those years that caused him to need a triple by pass heart surgery.

All I'm going to say is that the individuals who lie about steroids to their peers & friends, family whatever, deep down they know the truth, & it's up to them to one day be open about it.

I don't have a probelm with steroids or steroid users as I almost juiced when I was 21yrs old when I was at 227lbs & would've hit 245lbs at least depending on what I took, but I do have a problem with steroid users who pretend & lie to everyone about being natural so everyone is amazed by their "sudden" gain in power, size, strength, & decreased body fat %. That's what I have a problem with.

But I will stop it here.


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## camarosuper6 (Sep 28, 2004)

You have a problem with people who claim to be natural and use steroids in secret.

I have a problem with people accuse another person of something, and have absolutely nothing to back it up with other than their opinion based on a single, undetailed  picture.

If this were in court, you case would get thrown out. Its a serious accusation that has absolutely no foundation other than your opinion, which is based on a single picture and some stats...

Your accusations hold no water, yet you continue to swear by them.  I hope you are never on any jury in any courtroom in America.


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## Johnnny (Sep 28, 2004)

CamaroSuper6



> You have a problem with people who claim to be natural and use steroids in secret.
> 
> I have a problem with people accuse another person of something, and have absolutely nothing to back it up with other than their opinion based on a single, undetailed picture.
> 
> ...



Whatever man all I can say is you might think you know your brother or sister perfectly %100.

But I've seen & heard of too many situations such as this one.

Yeah you'll probably say that the ppl I know & experiences hold know credibility well I don't care what you think of that b/c I don't lie nor do I make up stories.

But one good friend of mine since grade 7 (a non football player) was honest about his steroid use that he started at about 18yrs old. Then after 2yrs of growing he said he suddenly quit & was natural.

His height was about 6ft tall & his body weight was about 220lbs with about  %10 BF. Then over the course of one year he exploded to about 280lbs not completely ripped of course, but his power went from having trouble with 315lbs flat bench to 365lbs for 6-8 reps & incline bench exploded from 245lbs for a few reps to about 275lbs for an easy 8-10 reps along with every other compound movement including a troubled 255lb tricep close-grip to a whopping 315lb close-grip for 5 reps.

He told me he was natural while everyone else knew he was juicing b/c one of the guys who sold him the juice was that cop not to mention that once he offered me to go on a cycle of Testosterone Suspension with him for 8 weeks but I didn't want to.

Then about 2 months later I asked him if I could still go on that cycle with him as I was considering it at the time & he denied ever offering the Suspension & said he wasn't on anything.

But recently he told me that he's been on some D-Bol, Testosterone Cypionate, some Deca, Winstrol & other sh!t.

He admitted to me that he purposely denied offering me some Suspension b/c he thought I would forget about it & he wanted me to think he was natural.

So I've been experienced with liars & no when an individual (not necessarily referring to your brother) is on juice by the size increase, strength/power increase, & lowered bodyfat%.


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## camarosuper6 (Sep 28, 2004)

Just because you have certain experiences does not mean that all other people have the same or even similar experiences. You need to quit comparing all your experiences with everyone elses, because it holds no water.


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## Johnnny (Sep 28, 2004)

camarosuper6



> Just because you have certain experiences does not mean that all other people have the same or even similar experiences. You need to quit
> comparing all your experiences with everyone elses, because it holds no
> water.



No it doesn't, but it just goes to show you all the different types of situations & examples of this & the fact that you don't always know ppl as well as you think.

Gyms everywhere are full of these types of "natural" ppl while everyone else knows other wise.

That's my only point.


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## camarosuper6 (Sep 28, 2004)

There are much easier and more appropriate ways to make that point, other than accusing someone.


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## Johnnny (Sep 28, 2004)

camarosuper6



> There are much easier and more appropriate ways to make that point, other than accusing someone.



I agree but there are way too many ppl trying to pass their steroid enhanced physiques as natural & it's obvious such as Arnold for example who also claimed to be natural while he was one of the most unnatural bodybuilders in his time.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Sep 28, 2004)

I understand your point Johnny.... remember, ENOUGH with the examples man, I GET your point.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 28, 2004)

camarosuper6



> I understand your point Johnny.... remember, ENOUGH with the examples man, I GET your point.



Finally, but one more example & I'm being sarcastic.

What if Dorian Yates especially during his prime winning Olympia's in 1996 told everyone that he was drug free would you believe it?

Yeah I know it's extreme but that's the type of ppl I'm talking about or have met & heard about all over gyms.

It would be one thing if Dorian came out & said I do 4 or 5 GH/Insulin stacks a year & inbetween that cycle I do Testosterone Suspension with D-Bol & whatever else just to maintain & keep hard.

Know what I mean?


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Sep 28, 2004)

You have a thyroid condition?  BOO HOO.  I have diabetes.  I've almost died dozens of times because of my condition.  I've been told I'd never be able to play football because I'm too high a risk.  One bodybuilder called a diabetic coma 'the most painful thing he had ever felt...your brain starves'.  Stop playing pity part, nobody gives a shit.

STOP ACCUSING ME WITHOUT EVIDENCE.  I have nothing to hide, but I can't defend myself when I'm being wrongfully accused?  So if I accused you of raping 5 year old children, and you defended yourself, I could presume that you're guilty because you STAUNCHLY DEFEND YOURSELF? 

You are weak,  I don't believe any of your lift claims.  Not because they are outrageous, because you've proved time and again that you have neither integrity (changing the subject by slandering people) or credibility.  I hope you enjoy using your condition as an excuse, cuz I've never used mine as one.  I hope you either waste away or get fat as shit.  OOP too late.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Sep 28, 2004)

> You say you're 5ft10 at 230lbs with under %10BF? That was basically Arnold's contest shape & he was about 6ft2 & on a lot of steroids which he claimed to be natural as well.



I'm 6'1 and 225 pounds at roughly 11 percent body fat.  Oh my god I must be on steroids!  Gopro is bigger and probably stronger and he is natural.  Is it so impossible to believe?



> I don't do reverse grip curls for your information.
> 
> So you think that doing 3 exercises, 3 sets each for biceps totaling 9 sets after chest day is too much?
> 
> That's just the right amount for biceps & it's the same for triceps.



Yep, yep, yep.  Too much.  Of course that's debatable, but if you can give me a study that says that's the RIGHT AMOUNT (I mean, 100 percent, no questions asked), well, you give me a link.  

Peace out Mr. Thyroid - YOU ARE BIGGER CUZ OF STEROIDS - excuse machine.


----------



## gr81 (Sep 29, 2004)

> You have a thyroid condition? BOO HOO.



oh yeah, and its all ephedra's fault too, don't you know DD.. his first 100 posts were on nothing but how ephedrine needs to be banned b/c it gave him thyroid disease, somehow... Johnnny, no one respects you son.. you need to know your role and SHUT your mouth!!


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 29, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> You have a thyroid condition? BOO HOO. I have diabetes. I've almost died dozens of times because of my condition. I've been told I'd never be able to play football because I'm too high a risk. One bodybuilder called a diabetic coma 'the most painful thing he had ever felt...your brain starves'. Stop playing pity part, nobody gives a shit.



Yeah I do have a thyroid condition that's finally stable. Have you ever heard of Graves disease? It's when a hyper thyroid is left untreated for certain amounts of time.

You say I'm trying to get pitty f$ck that, I don't need sh!t from anyone as I've delt with it so I don't give a sh!t about your diabetes.



> STOP ACCUSING ME WITHOUT EVIDENCE. I have nothing to hide, but I can't defend myself when I'm being wrongfully accused? So if I accused you of raping 5 year old children, and you defended yourself, I could presume that you're guilty because you STAUNCHLY DEFEND YOURSELF?



I did stop if you read what I said. & ppl have asked me if I was on steroids when I was 227lbs as some ppl weren't sure & I didn't react the way you do here defesively.

I reacted very calmly & naw, I never took that sh!t before & said that I was considering it, but you, immediately got all defensive & angry. & that tells me something.



> You are weak, I don't believe any of your lift claims. Not because they are outrageous, because you've proved time and again that you have neither integrity (changing the subject by slandering people) or credibility. I hope you enjoy using your condition as an excuse, cuz I've never used mine as one. I hope you either waste away or get fat as shit. OOP too late



I'm weak? a 275lb bench for 5-7 reps for a 200lb guy is descent with a 245lb incline bench press for 5-7 reps is also pretty descent. & I have a 120lb barbell curl for several reps with a 245lb close-grip bench.

But you don't have to believe it, believe what you want as I will believe what I want but in my case regarding what I believe there's a lot more truth.



> I'm 6'1 and 225 pounds at roughly 11 percent body fat. Oh my god I must be on steroids! Gopro is bigger and probably stronger and he is natural. Is it so impossible to believe?



Congrats to you wow, & my cousin is 6ft4 & was about 290lbs playing DT while on steroids & now he's 250lbs & has been off steroids for 5yrs.



> Yep, yep, yep. Too much. Of course that's debatable, but if you can give me a study that says that's the RIGHT AMOUNT (I mean, 100 percent, no questions asked), well, you give me a link.
> 
> Peace out Mr. Thyroid - YOU ARE BIGGER CUZ OF STEROIDS - excuse machine.



Wow how did you ever come up with that finisher? It must've taken a lot of thinking.

Gr81



> oh yeah, and its all ephedra's fault too, don't you know DD.. his first 100 posts were on nothing but how ephedrine needs to be banned b/c it gave him thyroid disease, somehow... Johnnny, no one respects you son.. you need to know your role and SHUT your mouth!!



This is a typical Gr81 reply that many ppl have told me about.

I think your brain spends too much time in your a$$. As there are many ppl here who get a long with me, at least not pricks like you.



But in regards to ephedrine/ephedra/Ma Huang yeah they were at fault for my hyper thyroid condition as it was proved by the Endocrinologist & those supplements should be banned b/c too many ppl have had heart attacks while using them along with other health problems such as thyroid problems.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 29, 2004)

I also notice nobody has commented on the fact that Arnold claimed to be natural while he was pumping himself full of D-Bol, Primobolan & probably testosterone.

& my recent reply if Dorian Yates would claim to be natural would anyone believe him?

While Dorian is taking prbably 3-4 GH/Insulin cycles a year along with Testosterones & other anabolics in between the GH/Insulin cycles to maintain.


----------



## madden player (Sep 29, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> I also notice nobody has commented on the fact that Arnold claimed to be natural while he was pumping himself full of D-Bol, Primobolan & probably testosterone.
> 
> & my recent reply if Dorian Yates would claim to be natural would anyone believe him?..


The only thing I know about Arnold's drug/steroid use is that he openly admits to using them as a competitive bodybuilder (although over the years the amount that he claimed to use is getting smaller).. I don't want to get into a cat fight on here, because maybe there is some interview from the past where Arnold totally denies using drugs??

I think about 100 posts ago I said something like steroid use is only obvious in the most extreme of cases...Would I believe Yates if he claimed to be natural, NO...Did I believe Ron Coleman when he said he was natural on Jay Leno, NO.

From your posts I get the idea that we see eye to eye on steroids, but as a natural bodybuilder why not focus on the success of the natural greats instead of steroid users??.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Sep 29, 2004)

Have fun making excuses, liar.


----------



## Randy (Sep 29, 2004)

Yeah Madden makes a good point.
Focus on the natural greats, not the people who are obvious steroid users.
For those in that category, they know who they are.  They can deny using them all their lives, but inside they know that they didn't achieve their muscle growth naturally.

Its just like in sports.  You see all these guys like Barry Bonds and Mcguire.... Hell they never did steroids in their lives either     Then they end up surpasing someones record of which was earned naturally.   To me that is complete bullshit, but again those people know that their achievements are bogus.  They're cracking down on the stuff though.   I would love to see these people tested and caught.
Look at some of the olympic runners who have been busted and their gold medals forfeited.  I think it is great that they are finally doing something about this.
Now if someone wants to take steroids, great! It is their life.  But like in sports, to compete with athletes who are supposed to be natural and lie about it.... that's just not right.

If one takes them, I feel they should at least be honest about it.  At least to those that have been around and know the truth.  I know those taking steroids do not want to advertise it to the wrong people and get themselves busted, but in a no threat situation with people who know them...hell might as well admit it 

If I was accused of steroid use, I would feel flattered and respond by saying "Thanks for thinking I look big enough to be a steroid user, but I'm all natural!".   I wouldn't get irrate unless I really was a steroid user and wanted to hide it   

I admit to taking M1T, but just tried it for one cycle.   There, now that wasn't hard  

Just my 2 cents on steroids..   
Oh by the way... If my buddy GR jumps in with his derogatory comments I now have him on ignore (The pos isn't worth it anymore to me).


----------



## camarosuper6 (Sep 29, 2004)

The point is, making false accusations is wrong, and Johnny does not seem to understand this point.

You do not pick someone at random, tell them their using steroids and then blabber about for 4 or 5 pages on why you THINK their on steroids when the only so called "proof" you have is the fact your old best buddy lied to you about using steroids years go.

Gimme a fuqqin break. This thread is getting old.


----------



## madden player (Sep 29, 2004)

Randy said:
			
		

> ..Its just like in sports. You see all these guys like Barry Bonds and Mcguire.... Hell they never did steroids in their lives either   Then they end up surpasing someones record of which was earned naturally. To me that is complete bullshit..


...I couldn't agree more with the bullshit part. I wouldn't get very much pride out of smashing ancient baseball records all 'juiced up' when the record I am breaking was set by a 'clean' athlete that had equal or better skills then mine..only difference is that I am a walking pharm/lab rat that enhances my natural abilities way beyond anything natural.

I am also glad that they are cracking down on drug cheats. I am optomistic and would like to believe that someday the testers will catch up to the cheats and athletes will have more of an even playing field.

I thought it was rather funny when the two Greek sprinters failed to show up for drug testing because of a "motorcycle accident"...They shamed an entire nation (as a Canadian we can relate to high profile sport/drug busts..Ben Johnson stole a part of this nations soul..no pun intended) because Dick Pound of the IOC came out days before the games and made it well known that there was now an effective test for HGH and it scared the Greek sprinters.


----------



## Randy (Sep 29, 2004)

Yeah I try to put myself in the shoes of the natural athletes.
I wouldn't want to be one of the few athletes fortunate enough to be competing for a record achievement to find that I was beatin out by a steroid punk.  Then to have the person flaunt his achievement to everyone claiming it was all done naturally. 

It may be an inconvenience to those natural athletes to resort to periodic testing, but for those athletes who remain natural....I would think they would be all for it.  It seems that the ones who squak are the ones who are guilty of using.

As for the sprinters, they got what they deserved. ]

And Camaro.... I can respect your statement.   I think Johnnny's comments were fueled by previous insulting remarks though....but I'm not going to get into that one.
I think the insults should stop though...  There isn't anything positive resulting from insulting each other here.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 29, 2004)

madden player



> The only thing I know about Arnold's drug/steroid use is that he openly
> admits to using them as a competitive bodybuilder (although over the
> years the amount that he claimed to use is getting smaller).. I don't
> want to get into a cat fight on here, because maybe there is some
> ...



I agree with you completely.

But regarding Arnold I have an interview with him in the latest Muscle Mag issue & he said that he only used the Weider Supplements such as the egg albumen protein drinks & that was all he said he used, no steroids.

But for sure as hell not, I wouldn't believe Dorian if he claimed to be natural.

But Ronnie Coleman actually said on Jay Leno he was natural? How long ago was that?

Give me a fn' break, that guy has soooo much GH/Insulin & other anabolics than anyone around. 

But no way Arnold was ever natural except maybe when he was 13 or 14 yrs old before he started juicing at 16yrs old.

Randy



> Its just like in sports. You see all these guys like Barry Bonds and Mcguire.... Hell they never did steroids in their lives either   Then they end up surpasing someones record of which was earned naturally. To me that is complete bullshit, but again those people know that their achievements are bogus. They're cracking down on the stuff though. I would love to see these people tested and caught.
> Look at some of the olympic runners who have been busted and their gold medals forfeited. I think it is great that they are finally doing something about this.
> Now if someone wants to take steroids, great! It is their life. But like in sports, to compete with athletes who are supposed to be natural and lie about it.... that's just not right.
> 
> If one takes them, I feel they should at least be honest about it. At least to those that have been around and know the truth. I know those taking steroids do not want to advertise it to the wrong people and get themselves busted, but in a no threat situation with people who know them...hell might as well admit it



You hit the target exactly, completely agree with you.



> admit to taking M1T, but just tried it for one cycle. There, now that wasn't hard



No that wasn't hard at all, that's exactly how I'd react if I was on steroids with my peers & friends.

camarosuper6



> The point is, making false accusations is wrong, and Johnny does not seem to understand this point.
> 
> You do not pick someone at random, tell them their using steroids and then blabber about for 4 or 5 pages on why you THINK their on steroids when the only so called "proof" you have is the fact your old best buddy lied to you about using steroids years go.



The point of that was to show you ppl that this type of thing happens all over the place in every gym, every college & highschool & in more house holds than you realize.

But I didn't name or accuse anyone here, just making my point, & the point where a physique 

I never knew that Frank Sepe who now has the perfect physique was 
270=280lbs ripped nor competed in IFBB contests until Firestorm (who's been honest with me) told me that he competed & honestly believes Frank Sepe is completely natural.

I just recently saw some pics of Frank when he was in IFBB form & he was fn' massive & ripped but he looks great now & much healthier being natural.

Sometimes you can just tell.

Anyway I've made my point & deep down the steroid liars know the truth even if they keep it a secret to everyone else.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Sep 29, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> But I didn't name or accuse anyone here, just making my point, & the point where a physique


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 29, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



>



Typical response


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Sep 29, 2004)

How is that a typical response?  I challenge you to go through every post I've ever made where I responded like that.  God you have no integrity.

However I can come up with at least 15 quotes of you accusing me of taking juice.  Do you want me to?  I can.  And I can proove that this statement: 





> But I didn't name or accuse anyone here, just making my point, & the point where a physique



Is a lie.

As is you saying that my last response is a typical one.

Boy, you're a real liar.  Difference is, I can prove you are a liar (just did), while you can't proove that I am.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 29, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> How is that a typical response?  I challenge you to go through every
> post I've ever made that just had those icons.  God you have no
> integrity.



Yes it is a typical response & you have no integrity IMO.



> Is a lie.
> 
> As is you saying that my last response is a typical one.
> 
> Boy, you're a real liar. Difference is, I can prove you are a liar (just did), while you can't proove that I am.



Your name was not mentioned once in my last reply so it's no lie nor am I a liar about anything I've said.

I can let it go, how about you? I guess not.


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## Duncans Donuts (Sep 29, 2004)

lmfao.  I think everyone knows whats going on here bud.


----------



## PreMier (Sep 29, 2004)

I knew John boy was a compulsive liar ever since he posted about his thyroid.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 29, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> lmfao.  I think everyone knows whats going on here bud.



I didn't mention you just referring to examples all over North America

Premier



> I knew John boy was a compulsive liar ever since he posted about his thyroid.



You think I'm lying about my thyroid?

Now I know you're a real prick.

I have nothing to lie about & certainly not a medical condition.

One thing I've learned is you're very conceited & I'm not the only one who thinks so.


----------



## PreMier (Sep 29, 2004)

I dont give a fuck if you think im conceited.  I think that you are lying, but if your not.. I hope you get Graves and die.  The world would be a better place without your compulsive lying and girlfriend beating.


----------



## Zac2013 (Sep 29, 2004)

The QB are in serious risk with helmet to helmet hit thats why its banned in college and pro football. I personal think if they set a rule it will change the game too much and it would become powder puff. Example the RB's could not lower the head for the first downs and also the impact on the goal line would change the game. I feel sorry for the kid its the coach to blame he didnt teach the kid the basics' and if he did and the kid cont... to do so the coach should not allowed him to play. So its all the coach's fault in my opinon.


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## madden player (Sep 29, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> ..Ronnie Coleman actually said on Jay Leno he was natural? How long ago was that?..


Yes.  He said he did not use steroids because he was a cop.  This most have been late 2000 early 2001.  I remember he came out after the actress Geena Davis and he looked insanely huge compared to Leno and Davis.  It was kind of a strange interview..Coleman was not questioned on his drug use, he just blurted out something like  "I am clean because I am a cop."  If I remember correctly he also said he did not smoke crack cocaine (strange??).


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 29, 2004)

madden player



> Yes. He said he did not use steroids because he was a cop. This most have been late 2000 early 2001. I remember he came out after the actress Geena Davis and he looked insanely huge compared to Leno and Davis. It was kind of a strange interview..Coleman was not questioned on his drug use, he just blurted out something like "I am clean because I am a cop." If I remember correctly he also said he did not smoke crack cocaine (strange??).



Everyone must've been saying to themselves in the audience, ya right my ass.

I saw Scott "Big Poppa Pump" Steiner on the Tonight Show or one of those shows & he was flexing his huge enhanced guns kissing them saying that he's a genetic freak yeah right.

All I can say is these guys are going to have major health difficulties at some point just as with Arnold's triple bypass heart surgery.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 29, 2004)

Zac2013

You are right about the QB's in most danger, they're the ppl that defensive linemen & LB's want to hurt the most & some defensive players take it too far.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Sep 29, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Duncans Donuts
> I didn't mention you just referring to examples all over North America



Oh, really?



			
				Johnnny said:
			
		

> Duncans Donuts
> But I didn't name or accuse anyone here, just making my point, & the point where a physique



Is that a fact?

#1 





> But you can't compare me meeting atheletes to your steroid use, totally 2 different things.



#2 





> I've heard about incidences such as this, 2 brothers keeping their steroid use a secret so all their friends think they're Superman.



#3 





> As for your lifts, many of them are steroid lifts with the lifts performed by steroid users I've seen.



#4 





> Most are actually pretty cool about it even if they lie. Some of the liars however react defensively such as Duncan has & these are some of the individuals who later are open about their drug use.



#5 





> But that's what Duncan & many other steroid users who lie have to gain,



#6 





> I've made my point, Duncan hasn't played or isn't playing b/c of an injury & I know a steroid physique when I see one.



#7 





> As for lying I believe he is lying as there are too many steroid users lying out there.



#8 





> What a crock.
> Like I said I know a steroid physique when I see one,



#9 





> Well I have my opinions on lying steroid users & I'm sticking to that opinion as well.



#10 





> I really don't care what you say, but if you get on the team with your steroid enhanced body, congradulations.



#11 





> I guess your steroids are helping you bench 500lbs, 350lbs on incline bench press & probably 250lbs on standing military press.



At least half of those are directly accusatory, and the other half direct implications.    Stop lying, pal.


----------



## Randy (Sep 29, 2004)

...


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 30, 2004)

Duncans Donuts

As you can see I only mentioned your name in #4 & mentioned "you" in #11.

So none of the other quote's you quote me on included your name or referred to you in those other 9 quotes.

But as for that quote about most steroid users being cool & open about it didn't include or referring to you just in general & I also said if I was on steroids I'd tell be openly w/o a problem, but no mention of you.

As for Premier & his retarded accusations of girlfriend beating, I've never layed a violent or agressive hand on a woman in my life.

Premier is just being the childish prick that he is & just wanted to accuse me of something & that for some reason was on the top of his head. Maybe he's a girlfriend beater & that's why it was the first choice of an accusation.

But I noticed that he removed his thread that included his explaination of that accusation, he even said he was doing it just for the sake of accusing me of something. This reply was between page 8-11 but it's gone.

But I'm thinking maybe Premier is being this way b/c he's on steroids?
Quite possible, not an accusation, just a theory LOL.

But I agree with Randy this thread sucks & blows,  & sure blame me for that if it makes you guys feel better.


----------



## pmech (Sep 30, 2004)

Troll


----------



## camarosuper6 (Sep 30, 2004)

> So none of the other quote's you quote me on included your name or referred to you in those other 9 quotes.



OH REALLY? WHO WERE YOU REFFERRING TO THEN, THE EASTER BUNNY?

Johnny, I was gonna leave this thread alone until I started reading this regurgitated garbage you started up on. 

I am now throughly convinced you are a troll... OR you are a utter and complete moron.


----------



## Johnnny (Sep 30, 2004)

Other than quotes 4 & 11 I never mentioned anyone's name only experiences & I mentioned pro body builders to make a point.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Sep 30, 2004)

"I've made my point, Duncan hasn't played or isn't playing b/c of an injury & I know a steroid physique when I see one."

You meant me.  Read the entire post and it is clear.

"But that's what Duncan & many other steroid users who lie have to gain,"

You call me a steroid user here.  No questions; that is verbatim.

" But you can't compare me meeting atheletes to your steroid use, totally 2 different things."

to YOUR steroid use.  You were referring to me.  Check it out again pal.

" As for lying I believe he is lying as there are too many steroid users lying out there."

He is lying - was a direct reference to me.  Check the entire quote.

But anyway, even if you are right (you aren't) and only directly reffered to me in #4 and #11 (btw - you can directly refer to someone without using their name), you still lied when you said that you hadn't made direct accusations.

So you lied.  No questions about it.  Someone lock this thread.


----------



## Randy (Sep 30, 2004)

***LOCKED***


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## gr81 (Sep 30, 2004)

Cmon fellas, Johnnny is like quicksand, just let it go. we all know who is right and who is a fuccin retard.. its over


----------



## Sean0621 (Sep 30, 2004)

Yup


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 1, 2004)

Johnny needs a swift kick in the ass.


----------



## pmech (Oct 1, 2004)

Camaro it was dying and you brought it back... noooooooo


----------



## madden player (Oct 1, 2004)

pmech said:
			
		

> Camaro it was dying and you brought it back... noooooooo


Johnnny is the 'Determinator'..He'll be back!!

This is far from over..There is no stopping him.  Every man for himself.


----------



## Johnnny (Oct 1, 2004)

Whatever guys,

I referred to Duncan in quotes #4 & #11 the others where just experiences of friends & peers to give examples of how many individuals & not just one individual lie about this.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Oct 1, 2004)

I counted at least 6 times where he referred to Duncan and a few more he was insinuating it was Duncan.

The whole board knows your a liar, I guarantee this is one argument that no one will back you up on.


----------



## P-funk (Oct 1, 2004)

this thread sucks my balls.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Oct 1, 2004)

Yea. Im pretty sick of Johnnys fuqqin threads too.


----------



## Randy (Oct 1, 2004)

Yeah how long is this bullshit going to go on....I think you all sound like little children     (wahhh wahhh well he said this, and he said that)  It's hillarious      Its just like a GR thread


----------



## camarosuper6 (Oct 1, 2004)

Randy, your more than welcome to direct your knowledge and expertise (sarcasm) to another thread.


----------



## Randy (Oct 1, 2004)

It's pretty obvious that (sarcasm) comes natural in your family.
After all, you keep seeming to add fuel to the fire and keep this bullshit going.
Why don't you grow up and leave it be. If you hate Johnnny so much, be a man and put him on ignore.  It doesn't take much knowledge and expertise to know that much.  




			
				camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> Randy, your more than welcome to direct your knowledge and expertise (sarcasm) to another thread.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Oct 1, 2004)

WTF does growing up have to do with anything? Just because you like to ignore problems or push them under the proverbial rug, doesnt mean your any more "grown". 

Just because i like to address issues that I dont feel are correct, doesnt have anything to do with maturity. Maybe growing a backbone would be good for ya.


----------



## Johnnny (Oct 1, 2004)

CamaroSuper6




> Yea. Im pretty sick of Johnnys fuqqin threads too.



I'm beginning to get sick of you

So far this is the first thread of mine that I recall that you've replied to, & just to back up your brother.

Does anyone else think that it's possible that Duncan & Camaro are the same person?


----------



## camarosuper6 (Oct 1, 2004)

I replied to it because you made false statements that I felt were pretty serious.

A lot of people on this board cant stand you because of your redundant, pointless and usually plain incorrect statemtents. So, yea, when basically say my brother is using steoids when he isnt, I take a bit of offense. Hes my family. Sue me.

I usually dont reply to you threads because I USED to think it was kinda unfair the way people singled you out and gave you a hard time. I usually didnt agree with your posts, but they werent usually derrogitory, so I wasnt trying to make anyone feel bad just to jump on the bandwagon.

But this I didnt appreciate. You were wrong in what you said, and you dont have the damn balls to even admit what you were talking about. At least have the courage and guts to admit what you said. I guess people were right about you. You are a complete dumbass.


----------



## Johnnny (Oct 1, 2004)

CamaroSuper6



> A lot of people on this board cant stand you because of your redundant, pointless and usually plain incorrect statemtents.



There's where you're wrong dude, there are a lot of ppl who I keep in touch with & vice versa via PM's, e-mail, & instant messaging from this forum.



> But this I didnt appreciate. You were wrong in what you said, and you dont have the damn balls to even admit what you were talking about. At least have the courage and guts to admit what you said. I guess people were right about you. You are a complete dumbass.



Only a couple of ppl who happen to be dumbasses themselves that you agree with.

But A couple of other ppl have sent me PM's not naming anyone & have also agreed with some of my inquiries on this thread.

But I'm just curious if you & Duncan are the same person.

As for my opinions I'm entitled to my opinions & I have stopped disclosing them, but I stand by my opinions even though I WON'T DISCUSS IT ANYMORE.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Oct 1, 2004)

God. Its like explaining Algebra to a tree slug.


----------



## Randy (Oct 1, 2004)

I am a very privileged banana slug, camaro taught me Algebra


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## Johnnny (Oct 1, 2004)

Nice one Randy that's funny.


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## gr81 (Oct 2, 2004)

thats funny? fuccin children


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## Johnnny (Oct 2, 2004)




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## Randy (Oct 2, 2004)




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## Randy (Oct 2, 2004)

<sniff> <sniff> <sniff>  smells like shit around here,  must be GR81.
I can see him since he's on ignore, but I sure can smell him.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 2, 2004)

Ya.. and they say I'M immature...

What a tag team.


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## gr81 (Oct 2, 2004)

hilarious.. look at the jokes their crackin and tell me they don't remind you of a bunch of sixth grade boys at recess.. jesus christ


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 2, 2004)

They both deserve eachother. George and Lenny reborn.

"Can I tend the wabbits George"


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## gr81 (Oct 2, 2004)

ha ha


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## Duncans Donuts (Oct 3, 2004)

"But I'm just curious if you & Duncan are the same person."

Jesus christ?  It's gotten to this now?  Track the IP: David (my brother) will have an IP North of Eureka.  I wil have an IP about 600 miles south, me being Michael, East of Los Angeles by about 60 miles.  I mean, God, Johnny, is this really necessary?


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## V Player (Oct 3, 2004)

You live close to LA, Duncan? Awesome....my younger brother lives in Northridge. I plan to move out there as soon as possible. It sucks being without him. We're only about a year apart.


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## Johnnny (Oct 3, 2004)

Duncans Donuts



> "But I'm just curious if you & Duncan are the same person."
> 
> Jesus christ? It's gotten to this now? Track the IP: David (my brother) will have an IP North of Eureka. I wil have an IP about 600 miles south, me being Michael, East of Los Angeles by about 60 miles. I mean, God, Johnny, is this really necessary?


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## Randy (Oct 3, 2004)




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## camarosuper6 (Oct 3, 2004)

Someone like Johnnny cant comprehend something as complex as an ISP address. If he cant use his fingers or toes , its a lost cause.


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## Sean0621 (Oct 3, 2004)

Wow I never knew Randy was in love with Johnnny, new things every day.


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## Randy (Oct 3, 2004)

Not in love with him , just don't like to see people putting him or anyone else down just for stating their opinions (granted his is pretty strong)    Instead of disagreeing with him, people keep bashing him to the ground, which I think is unnecessary.    Then when someone seems to get in a dissagreement with him, others such as yourself seem to get off on joining in.  But, such as any message board the crowd comes in all flavors including children   So in light of that, I will excuse your behavior Sean   

I'm off to workout.... peace


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 3, 2004)

Randy, if you took 5 minutes of your valuable time to read the thread, you'll see that both Duncan,myself and others have damn good reasons for being upset. Im sure even you can see the blantant accusations he threw at Duncan, multiple times then DENYING he said them. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that people who get accused of something they didnt do, are going to be upset and rightfully so.

Seriously, who wouldnt be a little preterbed at that. And on top of everything, you find it amusing and cant see why people are tired of his schtick. 

Unbelievable.


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## Randy (Oct 3, 2004)

Camaro...

I only find this amusing because of the length of time this thing has been going on.
You are a moderator and are here to help people and defuse situations like this.
All I could see that Johnnny did was make a statement that he thought Duncan was on steroids. Then you came to his defense, and then I guess he accused you as well. To me, Johnnny's accusation was not one that was highly offensive that should have lead to all of this. Heck! I would be flattered if someone thought I was big enough to be accused of being a steroid user.. I would just laugh it off and thank him for the compliment ... But when the thread started to go sour, you guys just kept throwing fuel to the fire and kept it going and going and going and going.. In my opinion, since you are a moderator you should have closed this thread a long time ago...... 

Just the way I say it bro...


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## Johnnny (Oct 3, 2004)

Sean0621



> Wow I never knew Randy was in love with Johnnny, new things every day.



    

CamaroSuper6



> Randy, if you took 5 minutes of your valuable time to read the thread, you'll see that both Duncan,myself and others have damn good reasons for being upset. Im sure even you can see the blantant accusations he threw at Duncan, multiple times then DENYING he said them. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that people who get accused of something they didnt do, are going to be upset and rightfully so.
> 
> Seriously, who wouldnt be a little preterbed at that. And on top of everything, you find it amusing and cant see why people are tired of his schtick.



    

Boring

Randy



> I only find this amusing because of the length of time this thing has been going on.
> You are a moderator and are here to help people and defuse situations like this.
> All I could see that Johnnny did was make a statement that he thought Duncan was on steroids. Then you came to his defense, and then I guess he accused you as well. To me, Johnnny's accusation was not one that was highly offensive that should have lead to all of this. Heck! I would be flattered if someone thought I was big enough to be accused of being a steroid user.. I would just laugh it off and thank him for the compliment ... But when the thread started to go sour, you guys just kept throwing fuel to the fire and kept it going and going and going and going.. In my opinion, since you are a moderator you should have closed this thread a long time ago......
> 
> Just the way I say it bro...



This is true b/c a few other members here have been completely %100 honest about their steroid use & didn't act like Camaro or Duncan or anyone else here, they just said the truth that they used & actually named some of the substances they've used.

I would be honest about roids if I were on them.


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## Randy (Oct 3, 2004)

And if they say they are not using steroids, then you have to respect that too Johnnny.
Now that all this is said...

Now close the thread


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 3, 2004)

I cant close this thread or I would.. much like I would ban Johnnny if I could.


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## Duncans Donuts (Oct 4, 2004)

How am I supposed to respond when someone starts slandering me?  

His job as a moderator doesn't supercede him being my brother.  If someone slandered him I'd come to his defense, too.  Johnny doesn't understand this connection because he is uncapable of distinguishing "truth" from his "belief".  

I'm glad you think it's a compliment when someone accuses you of steroid use, Randy.  I would too, if it were phrased as a polite question.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 4, 2004)

Very true. The delivery of the statement makes all the difference.


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## Johnnny (Oct 4, 2004)

CamaroSuper6



> I cant close this thread or I would.. much like I would ban Johnnny if I could.



Ban me for what? Having my own opinions?

I've seen many other ppl's opinions getting trashed around here since I've been here but that doesn't mean someone should be banned.

But with that said to Camaro & Duncan


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