# How many of you are actually saving for retirement?



## Braveheart82 (Jun 9, 2012)

I read in a CNN article a couple weeks back that 49% aren't saving ANYTHING for retirement. That's freaking scary. Will old people be living in the streets 40 years from now?  I just have a Roth and I max it out. When I pay off my student loans and cc debt, then I'll open up a taxable and invest some more.  Need to start when you're young.  How many of you are actually saving for retirement?


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## hoyle21 (Jun 9, 2012)

I was putting 20% in a 401k that my company matched, but had to cut back this year.   I'll increase it again as soon as I can.


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## Curt James (Jun 9, 2012)

Have two 401k equivalents courtesy of the school district, but my longterm plan is to ride my motorcycle off a cliff when I reach the end of my rope, say age 120 or so.


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## LAM (Jun 9, 2012)

Braveheart82 said:


> I read in a CNN article a couple weeks back that 49% aren't saving ANYTHING for retirement. That's freaking scary. Will old people be living in the streets 40 years from now?  I just have a Roth and I max it out. When I pay off my student loans and cc debt, then I'll open up a taxable and invest some more.  Need to start when you're young.  How many of you are actually saving for retirement?



that's 50% of the babyboomers alone, there are more than that with zero as those in the lower income quintile save less than .01% of their annual income, they don't make enough to save.  boomers totally fucked themselves when they pulled all that equity out of their homes to fuel consumption during the late 90's and early 2000's.  they are leading the country in bankruptcy's from the housing asset bubble burst.

I moved most of my assets out of the US long ago, can earn from 10-15% in many country's.  savers in the US are getting so fucked over with banking paying less than 1% APR on accounts and real inflation is closer to 4-5% a year.  right now US workers/taxpayers are paying interest to bondholders which are the same people that caused the financial crisis.  talk about getting fucked in the ass with out a reach around...


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## NVRBDR (Jun 9, 2012)

My wife and I have been investing/saving for retirement for years... I will probably never retire, I enjoy working, I just work a lot less these days


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## BFHammer (Jun 10, 2012)

Savers are losers with taxes and inflation.  Buy rental property and get cash flow now instead of hoping and praying Obama bin Biden doesn't nationalize your 401k to pay for his half billion dollar vote buying to ACORN


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## LAM (Jun 10, 2012)

BFHammer said:


> Savers are losers with taxes and inflation.  Buy rental property and get cash flow now instead of hoping and praying Obama bin Biden doesn't nationalize your 401k to pay for his half billion dollar vote buying to ACORN


 
and how exactly does voter registration turn into votes in the electoral college?  can you explain that process?


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## Big Smoothy (Jun 10, 2012)

Braveheart82 said:


> I read in a CNN article a couple weeks back that 49% aren't saving ANYTHING for retirement. That's freaking scary. Will old people be living in the streets 40 years from now?  I just have a Roth and I max it out. When I pay off my student loans and cc debt, then I'll open up a taxable and invest some more.  Need to start when you're young.  How many of you are actually saving for retirement?



I am *not* saving for retirement, I am saving for old age and medical issues.

Why am I not saving for retirement?  Because the concept of retirement is over. 

We will work until:

1. we die

or, 

2. we are too old physically or mentally to work (provided we are hired in our 70s and 80s).

I do try to save for old age.


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## BFHammer (Jun 10, 2012)

LAM said:


> and how exactly does voter registration turn into votes in the electoral college?  can you explain that process?


If your to dense to figure out voting multiple times on fraudulent absentee ballots, multiple voting, and hundreds of thousands of your illegals voting there really isn't any explanation that can help you.

You democrats need an ID for your welfare checks yet don't think you should have to show one for voting who can dole out billions to his cronies.


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## NVRBDR (Jun 10, 2012)

BFHammer said:


> Savers are losers with taxes and inflation.  Buy rental property and get cash flow now instead of hoping and praying Obama bin Biden doesn't nationalize your 401k to pay for his half billion dollar vote buying to ACORN



If a person doesn't save, his buying power is limited. Cash is a strong position to be in, especially in these days when investment property owners credit purchasing power is in a strangle hold for the most part. CASH is buying power now. That being said, I agree, real estate investment properties can be very profitable(I have been in this business for years), experience has taught me to have my eggs in several baskets, and to stay proportionately balanced in what you own.


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## heavyiron (Jun 10, 2012)

Yup, always contribute to our 401K's. 

However not sure I want to retire. I like working.


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## ctr10 (Jun 10, 2012)

I have a 401K, IRA and a pension


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## OMEGAx (Jun 10, 2012)

I intend to Kill 1 or 2 people on my way out..............


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## Iron8 (Jun 10, 2012)

LAM said:


> that's 50% of the babyboomers alone, there are more than that with zero as those in the lower income quintile save less than .01% of their annual income, they don't make enough to save.  boomers totally fucked themselves when they pulled all that equity out of their homes to fuel consumption during the late 90's and early 2000's.  they are leading the country in bankruptcy's from the housing asset bubble burst.
> 
> *I moved most of my assets out of the US long ago*, can earn from 10-15% in many country's.  savers in the US are getting so fucked over with banking paying less than 1% APR on accounts and real inflation is closer to 4-5% a year.  right now US workers/taxpayers are paying interest to bondholders which are the same people that caused the financial crisis.  talk about getting fucked in the ass with out a reach around...


Hopefully not to Greece:]


heavyiron said:


> Yup, always contribute to our 401K's.
> 
> However not sure I want to retire. I like working.



Retirement will be fun for a while but I see it getting old. I don't have any studies or statistics on this but from what i've seen it seems guys who work late into life end up living longer.


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## Arnold (Jun 10, 2012)

I don't ever expect to retire, I think I would be bored out of my mind if I were not busy working


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## 200+ (Jun 10, 2012)

I have too many bills to invest into a 401k.  Most people are in my situation.  I have to lower my standard of living in order to invest, but there isnt much to lower...


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## vicious 13 (Jun 10, 2012)

I have a bitchin pension through the carpenters union right now trying to invest in properties for retirement


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## Big Smoothy (Jun 10, 2012)

I used to pay into the 401K.

It's a disaster.  A scam.  It it only means your taxes are _deferred_.  LOTS of HIDDEN FEES.

They can change the rules anytime.

I intentionally do NOT invest in a 401K and instead go into Index funds and precious metals.


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## vicious 13 (Jun 10, 2012)

401 k is a scam


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## heckler7 (Jun 10, 2012)

paycheck to paycheck. retirement was cool for my granparents, we had a good time in the summer when I was a child. Do companies still offer 401k? havent seen that in years


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## LAM (Jun 10, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> I used to pay into the 401K.
> 
> It's a disaster.  A scam.  It it only means your taxes are _deferred_.  LOTS of HIDDEN FEES.
> 
> ...



taxes being deferred is the major part of the scam, it's one of the many "illusions" of free choice that are given to people. only about 1-3 americans are contributing to 401k's and the majority of the large firms and global 500's are located in the northern states.  a large percentage of those workers that build enough for retirement move to the lower taxed , lower population southern states.  along with them comes their retirement savings and savings being nothing more than delayed consumption then goes into the local economy's.

monies invested by the "average" worker in 401's aren't enough to retire on or even provide a sufficient amount of income for long maybe a couple of years.

401k's are just another method that wallstreet and the banks use the workers to generate profits for their non-working asses.  returns are skewed by those on the high end and complex graphs and charts from investment firms look "impressive" to people as most have not a clue what they are looking at.

only 16% of US workers have guaranteed pension plans.  I haven't read it yet but people say the book "The Great 401 (k) Hoax" sheds light on the whole scam.  not many will be retiring in the US in the future.


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## Zaphod (Jun 10, 2012)

I'm putting a modest amount into 401k.  I'm also investing in guns and bullets.  Either way I'll have the currency of the future.


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## Zaphod (Jun 10, 2012)

Curt James said:


> Have two 401k equivalents courtesy of the school district, but my longterm plan is to ride my motorcycle off a cliff when I reach the end of my rope, say age 120 or so.



I may not be riding my motorcycle off a cliff but I do plan on touring the country most of my retirement time.  Touring by motorcycle, that is.


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## heavyiron (Jun 10, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> I used to pay into the 401K.
> 
> It's a disaster.  A scam.  It it only means your taxes are _deferred_.  LOTS of HIDDEN FEES.
> 
> ...



Not always. You can invest after tax dollars in many 401K plans. Roth 401K's are becomming pretty common. Another one is interestingly enough called an after tax 401K.

My wife currently invests soley in a Roth 401K.


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## OfficerFarva (Jun 10, 2012)

I'm saving up to buy one of these.  I just don't know where I want to store it, at home or in a bank vault.


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## heavyiron (Jun 10, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> I used to pay into the 401K.
> 
> It's a disaster.  A scam.  It it only means your taxes are _deferred_. * LOTS of HIDDEN FEES.*
> 
> ...



Oh, also there are no hidden fees anymore. New regs about 2 yeears ago made employer disclosure of fees a law and this year employee fees MUST be disclosed by law.


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## LAM (Jun 10, 2012)

fees for some state pension plans and 401k's are freaking ridiculous.  one example is the Wisconsin state pension funds which gets charged 300M a year to have those assets managed.


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## Big Smoothy (Jun 11, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> Oh, also there are no hidden fees anymore. New regs about 2 yeears ago made employer disclosure of fees a law and this year employee fees MUST be disclosed by law.



If it covers all of those previous hidden fees and it transparent that's good - no, that is what should be done.

I am still skeptical.

There were - and I think may still be - the fees that are disclosed but do not reveal how much money you are losing over decades.


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## Big Smoothy (Jun 11, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> Not always. You can invest after tax dollars in many 401K plans. Roth 401K's are becomming pretty common. Another one is interestingly enough called an after tax 401K.
> 
> My wife currently invests soley in a Roth 401K.



I have a traditional IRA from the 1990s and also a ROTH IRA - they both are bad.  

Remember, Congress can change the rules on you at _anytime._


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## heavyiron (Jun 11, 2012)

LAM said:


> fees for some state pension plans and 401k's are freaking ridiculous.  one example is the Wisconsin state pension funds which gets charged 300M a year to have those assets managed.



401K plan fees can vary greatly. Some are pretty low, usually bigger plans with more participants. My better half has hers through a large insurance company she works for. They also test plans to see if they are meeting IRS regs. 

With employer matching its a no brainer. I have averaged about 115% returns per year on my money since 2008. My plan matches contrbutions dollar for dollar. My wifes plan also does matching but its less than mine.


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## heavyiron (Jun 11, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> I have a traditional IRA from the 1990s and also a ROTH IRA - they both are bad.
> 
> Remember, Congress can change the rules on you at _anytime._


Roth 401K's that have employer matching are a whole different animal. 

IRS regs do change but its usually not a big deal unless you are talking about something else?


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## Arnold (Jun 11, 2012)

if you have an employer that does some type of 401k matching it only makes sense to invest in one, otherwise u would be passing up on free money, I did for many years when I worked in corporate America.


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## ebn2002 (Jun 11, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> I used to pay into the 401K.
> 
> It's a disaster.  A scam.  It it only means your taxes are _deferred_.  LOTS of HIDDEN FEES.
> 
> ...



Yes because there is no fee on ETF's and no spread on precious metals lmao.  It's funny because the average joe would never give medical advice but throws financial advice around like he graduated Harvard.

What rules are "they" going to change in a 401k?  And precious metals are a terrible investment.  No yield, no true use, and the long-term appreciation rate of gold is 4%, you guessed it,THE INFLATION RATE.  And since you know so much you already know the point of investing is to outpace inflation or your purchasing power stays the same year after year.


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## SloppyJ (Jun 11, 2012)

I got lucky. As soon as I graduated from highschool I got a good job with a great company. I've been going to school and working full time ever since. I will graduate soon with my BA. I also have a technical degree for CAD. I will have no debt coming out of school. My cars are paid for and I took out no student loans. I feel ahead of the game.

 I started investing in my 401k at 17yrs old. I defer the max amount that my company will match to. I don't like to pass up free money. My 401k took a hit with the recession but it bounced back and then some. I feel like I will be in good shape when it comes to retirement age. I'm 5-10yrs ahead of most people in terms of investing in a 401k.  And with that much of a jump on people, my last 5-10yrs of my career should yeild some nice gains in my retirement fund. 

That is one of the best things I've ever done.


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## heavyiron (Jun 11, 2012)

The recession was the perfect time to buy. I bought units dirt cheap when the market declined. I like buying low.


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## NVRBDR (Jun 11, 2012)

^^^ very true, I bought several properties at roughly 50 cents on the dollar per the tax rolls, however, my local rental market has not had a downturn, the rent is exactly the same in these specific markets as before the recession started.


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## Bowden (Jun 11, 2012)

For retirement I invest in a Roth 401k using after tax dollars and my employer matches my contribution.
Also I buy high yield corporate bonds and I Bonds through Treasury Direct.


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## heavyiron (Jun 11, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> If it covers all of those previous hidden fees and it transparent that's good - no, that is what should be done.
> 
> I am still skeptical.
> 
> There were - and I think may still be - the fees that are disclosed but do not reveal how much money you are losing over decades.



Here is the exact reg number if you want to check it out;

*408*(*b*)(*2*) disclosure *regulation*


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## LAM (Jun 11, 2012)

ebn2002 said:


> And precious metals are a terrible investment.



you are 100% wrong on this one.  precious metals are a great investment simply because they are of limited supply and not renewable, you just can't go make more gold, etc.  everything isn't about appreciation and inflation it's about having a physical commodity to sell or trade that can't be wiped out with the stroke of a pen or keyboard command as anything stored electronically can.


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## I'M retarded (Jun 11, 2012)

i'm not saving shit, the world is gonna end this year!!!!!  thats my plan! if it fails, i'm gonna marry a fat ol nigger bitch that will pop out a every two years, act like my back hurts. live of all your guys taxes. all you need is a few nigglet kids! shit works great in my nieghborhood. fucking government really takes care of there niggers, we got vets, living on the streets, so some 500lb nigger can eat free bacon!


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## LAM (Jun 11, 2012)

I'M retarded said:


> i'm not saving shit, the world is gonna end this year!!!!!  thats my plan! if it fails, i'm gonna marry a fat ol nigger bitch that will pop out a every two years, act like my back hurts. live of all your guys taxes. all you need is a few nigglet kids! shit works great in my nieghborhood. fucking government really takes care of there niggers, we got vets, living on the streets, so some 500lb nigger can eat free bacon!



so you only need $400/month is that a lot of money where you live?  if your jealous of poor people you should probably just go out in the garage and suck on a shot gun and end it now..


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## I'M retarded (Jun 11, 2012)

$400 a month, your clueless!
$255 each kid x 3 or 4
$986 bad back, plus good pain killers i can sell!
$986 fat obesse black wife.
$986 if we take care of her fat ass black mama
free school clothes for kids, fuck while im in the system i get a free cell phone, well so will my wife and nigglets.
free medical x 5 or 6, hell i can go to hospital when bacon makes me sick or i shit wrong, don't matter to me tax payers pay for it, 
maybe section 8 houseing, around here there nice houses
rent voucher 2x a year. 
set bills $54 dollar a month for natural gas, shit it's gonna be 95 degrees in my house all winter, with my windows open.
$38 dollar set electric bill, a/c gonna be blasting with the front door wide open.
the perks, no moe child saport my nigga, ssi paid dat shit off! 
now i'm gonna take my poor ass and go cry till i get me some moe fwee sheait! go my cousin willy's wit my bad back and moo his fwijarater up 3 flites of stairs!
now that i gots money and all my bills are paid i can sell some crack, so i can chill my my niggas in my town car, till i'm ready to pass out on my porch!


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## Watson (Jun 11, 2012)

60% of everything (after tax) i earn goes away for my boys, 2 & 4, bdays/xmas i get cash gifts and throw mine in for them also
my family said why dont i take a holiday or buy myself something nice, truth be told nothing makes me more happy than knowing my boys will have a good life when they grow up, 

if all goes to plan by the time they graduate uni i can give them a house/car and help set them up in what they need, i dont care if they appreciate it or not, it all i want to do

for my retirement, i dont care if i sleep under a newspaper on a park bench


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## LAM (Jun 11, 2012)

I'M retarded said:


> $400 a month, your clueless!
> $255 each kid x 3 or 4
> $986 bad back, plus good pain killers i can sell!
> $986 fat obesse black wife.
> ...



nice stats you made up in your head...direct money transfers are limited to $400 a month for the lifetime maximum of 60 months per the Welfare Reform Act of 1996.  my guess is you didn't or haven't read the legislation you probably should....

SNAP (food stamps) benefits are for the children and expire at age 18.

for some reason only people on the lower end of the income ladder seem to bitch about this...rich people have no problems with it


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## Big Smoothy (Jun 11, 2012)

ebn2002 said:


> Yes because there is no fee on ETF's and no spread on precious metals lmao.  It's funny because the average joe would never give medical advice but throws financial advice around like he graduated Harvard.
> 
> What rules are "they" going to change in a 401k?  And precious metals are a terrible investment.  No yield, no true use, and the long-term appreciation rate of gold is 4%, you guessed it,THE INFLATION RATE.  And since you know so much you already know the point of investing is to outpace inflation or your purchasing power stays the same year after year.



ebn, I was not and never give financial advice.  I am not qualified to and ma only a layman.  I was only saying what I do, and I noted my disappointment with 401Ks.

As for PMs, it's only a small percentage of what little I save.  It's a hedge.  Just another way to "diversify," and yes there is a spread.

My point is not about fee of the 401K but the hideen fees that can take large amounts of a workers fund over decades.


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## vicious 13 (Jun 11, 2012)

I don't want to retire and have to worry about money running out I want to go where I want buy what I want and do what I want


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## Zaphod (Jun 11, 2012)

ebn2002 said:


> Yes because there is no fee on ETF's and no spread on precious metals lmao.  It's funny because the average joe would never give medical advice but throws financial advice around like he graduated Harvard.
> 
> What rules are "they" going to change in a 401k?  And precious metals are a terrible investment.  No yield, no true use, and the long-term appreciation rate of gold is 4%, you guessed it,THE INFLATION RATE.  And since you know so much you already know the point of investing is to outpace inflation or your purchasing power stays the same year after year.



"They" will change whatever rules they want to change.  Whenever they want.  Happened to me where I work.  I wasn't hosed as hard as some, my losses were only a few hundred bucks.  Others lost thousands when my employer changed their 401k rules.


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## LAM (Jun 12, 2012)

there is going to be a major housing surplus in the future (2020-2030) in many states, which will have a large effect on home values and equity. first in the states heavy with baby boomers and then the rest of the country.


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## Big Pimpin (Jun 12, 2012)

I encourage all of you who don't already to invest on weekly/monthly basis even if its a minimal amount.  The other day I used a retirement calculator to show my youngest employee (21) on what putting away just $25/week @ 5% looked like at age 65 and it blew his mind.  He's the typical 21yo who wastes serious money on his car and sushi dinners on Friday nights with the local sluts he's trying to impress, but like I told him he has no excuse not to put money away considering what he's paid (about $40K this year).  Luckily he agreed and I showed him how to set up a Scottrade account with auto funding.  Hopefully he sticks with it.

The best thing my dad ever did was give me a $2k IRA when I was 19yo all while telling me once again there will be no Social Security when you retire so invest accordingly.


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## I'M retarded (Jun 12, 2012)

LAM said:


> nice stats you made up in your head...direct money transfers are limited to $400 a month for the lifetime maximum of 60 months per the Welfare Reform Act of 1996. my guess is you didn't or haven't read the legislation you probably should....
> 
> SNAP (food stamps) benefits are for the children and expire at age 18.
> 
> for some reason only people on the lower end of the income ladder seem to bitch about this...rich people have no problems with it



my guess is your black and offended by the truth!


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## heavyiron (Jun 12, 2012)

LAM said:


> there is going to be a major housing surplus in the future (2020-2030) in many states, which will have a large effect on home values and equity. first in the states heavy with baby boomers and then the rest of the country.



Lend me your crystal ball. I need to see who wins the Super Bowl in 2025. LOL!


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## LAM (Jun 12, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> Lend me your crystal ball. I need to see who wins the Super Bowl in 2025. LOL!



it's called baby-boomers selling their homes to finance their retirement which is almost 30% of the total us population.

starting in 2011 10K a day...


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## Big Smoothy (Jun 12, 2012)

LAM said:


> it's called baby-boomers selling their homes to finance their retirement which is almost 30% of the total us population.
> 
> starting in 2011 10K a day...



Yup.

10,000 Americans per day hit the SS rolls.  I forgot how many hit Medicare but it's nearly the same.

Homes are being sold/will be sold.


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## heavyiron (Jun 12, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> Yup.
> 
> 10,000 Americans per day hit the SS rolls.  I forgot how many hit Medicare but it's nearly the same.
> 
> Homes are being sold/will be sold.



Parrot ^^^ =)


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## SloppyJ (Jun 12, 2012)

Seems to be some major speculation up in this bitch.


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## XYZ (Jun 12, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> I used to pay into the 401K.
> 
> It's a disaster.  A scam.  It it only means your taxes are _deferred_.  LOTS of HIDDEN FEES.
> 
> ...



That is not the case at all.  

The idea is your tax bracket changes when you retire.  Instead of paying taxes in a 35-50% bracket you now pay in the 15-20% range.  YOU PAY LESS IN TAXES PERIOD.

The only fees are those of the selected funds inside the plan.  The employer has all of the costs tied to the plan, NOT the employee.  No matter where you go you'll pay fees on funds PERIOD.


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## XYZ (Jun 12, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> Oh, also there are no hidden fees anymore. New regs about 2 yeears ago made employer disclosure of fees a law and this year employee fees MUST be disclosed by law.




By July 1, 2012


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## BP2000 (Jun 12, 2012)

When I was bartending in college a regular who used to come in gave me retirement advice.  He was a millionaire  (He came in each day and drank expensive wine/champagne) 

He said not to try and get rich quick but save 10% of your income each year and invest it when good deals come by.


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## heavyiron (Jun 12, 2012)

XYZ said:


> By July 1, 2012



Yup and most plans decided to disclose early so in practicality full fee disclosure is already happening.


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## ebn2002 (Jun 12, 2012)

LAM said:


> you are 100% wrong on this one.  precious metals are a great investment simply because they are of limited supply and not renewable, you just can't go make more gold, etc.  everything isn't about appreciation and inflation it's about having a physical commodity to sell or trade that can't be wiped out with the stroke of a pen or keyboard command as anything stored electronically can.



Warren buffett and history disagree with you.  WARREN BUFFETT: WHY GOLD IS A LOSING LONG-TERM BET???. | PRAGMATIC CAPITALISM

And the value of your gold can vanish with the stroke of a keyboard, it trades in the open market just like a stock.  If the world economy returns to better days, you will see the value of your gold disappear, like in 1980 on this historical chart.  Gold is only worth what you and I agree it's worth. Commodity Charts - Gold Futures


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## LAM (Jun 12, 2012)

SloppyJ said:


> Seems to be some major speculation up in this bitch.



in regards to housing it's not speculation at all economists have written dozens of papers on the subject, it was forecast decades ago.  the problem is too many get their economic information from tv and politicians the 2 worst places for accurate information.  

there is going to be a major housing surplus between boomers selling off to finance retirement and generation Y not having the funds (college loan debt, low paying jobs, etc.) or the desire to jump right into home ownership (starting families later in life) and being very mobile.  the cities/states with the majority of boomers are in:
rochester NY
york/hanover PA
canton OH
kingsport TN/ Bristol VA
charleston w. va
pittsburgh pa
palm bay/melbourne-titusville FLa
youngstown oh
santa rosa ca
portland maine

* with wages stagnant and falling far short of the rate of inflation the past 25 years there is no reason to think that home values will create the same wealth for the next generation that it did for the boomers before the housing crisis.


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## Big Pimpin (Jun 12, 2012)

LAM said:


> in regards to housing it's not speculation at all economists have written dozens of papers on the subject, it was forecast decades ago.  the problem is too many get their economic information from tv and politicians the 2 worst places for accurate information.
> 
> there is going to be a major housing surplus between boomers selling off to finance retirement and generation Y not having the funds (college loan debt, low paying jobs, etc.) or the desire to jump right into home ownership (starting families later in life) and being very mobile.  the cities/states with the majority of boomers are in:
> rochester NY
> ...



I'm not saying you're wrong but your argument is missing one key component and that is these stupid reverse mortgages.  I'm curious why grandmas and grandpas would sell en mass to walk away with some money when they can reverse mortgage (assuming they have enough equity) the dump and stay put since they will need a roof over their head?


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## LAM (Jun 12, 2012)

Big Pimpin said:


> I'm not saying you're wrong but your argument is missing one key component and that is these stupid reverse mortgages.  I'm curious why grandmas and grandpas would sell en mass to walk away with some money when they can reverse mortgage (assuming they have enough equity) the dump and stay put since they will need a roof over their head?



I don't think they are as big as people think I still have a number of friends in the mortgage biz across the states and not many write many loans for them.  there are also a lot of people that are about to retire that simply have way to much house just for 2 people so they want to downgrade to less sq. footage.  but who really is going to want to buy some 20 year old cheap ass Mc Mansion, etc.?  people don't realize how much it cost to heat/cool of a large home power bills can easily range fro $1-2K a month.


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## heavyiron (Jun 12, 2012)

In Denver Colorado we are seeing potential for a housing shortage because of falling inventory. Rents have been steadily rising this year because of it. If you are selling a home that is valued under 500K it is flying off the shelf.


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## Big Pimpin (Jun 13, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> In Denver Colorado we are seeing potential for a housing shortage because of falling inventory. Rents have been steadily rising this year because of it. If you are selling a home that is valued under 500K it is flying off the shelf.




But why is inventory short?  

If it's anything like metro ATL it's because the only houses for sale are either foreclosed, distressed or the people just want/have to move.  There has to be at least 100K people like me around ATL who would like to sell but refuse to try because it's not worth taking such a huge bath.   

The wife and I are putting somewhere around $20K in our kitchen this summer not because we'll get that out of it at resale, but because its the kitchen we want and chances are we'll be enjoying it for the next 10 years.


----------



## heavyiron (Jun 13, 2012)

Big Pimpin said:


> But why is inventory short?
> 
> If it's anything like metro ATL it's because the only houses for sale are either foreclosed, distressed or the people just want/have to move.  There has to be at least 100K people like me around ATL who would like to sell but refuse to try because it's not worth taking such a huge bath.
> 
> The wife and I are putting somewhere around $20K in our kitchen this summer not because we'll get that out of it at resale, but because its the kitchen we want and chances are we'll be enjoying it for the next 10 years.



No, they haven't built enough units the last few years in Denver and people keep moving into the state. First time home buyers are getting good prices and good interest rates. If this trend continues home values will increase in Denver at least once the forclosures are sold off.

Staying in your house makes sense. Only fools sell low. =)


----------



## Big Pimpin (Jun 13, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> No, they haven't built enough units the last few years in Denver and people keep moving into the state. First time home buyers are getting good prices and good interest rates. If this trend continues home values will increase in Denver at least once the forclosures are sold off.
> 
> Staying in your house makes sense. Only fools sell low. =)



Congrats on the population growth and home demand...it's rare.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Jun 13, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> Parrot ^^^ =)




I've been following this for many years. 

Back at Uni in 1991.

David Walker's piece on _60 minutes_ - you can do a search and find it in Open Chat - motivated me to start a thread about it.


----------



## LAM (Jun 13, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> Staying in your house makes sense. Only fools sell low. =)



all depends on where you live and how much land there is to develop for home growth.  one way to tell if rates are rising due to housing shortages vs investors and speculators buying up properties is if rents are increasing.

that is one of the tells that the housing boom/bubble was due to legislation and not supply & demand and especially in the big bubble states like AZ and NV.  if the overall housing supply is low then rents should also increase along with rising home values but they did not.


----------



## jay_steel (Jun 13, 2012)

I am 28 and have been investing into my retirement 200$ since I was 18 and ensured that I am debt free. Only debt to my name is a new car loan and mortgage.


----------



## XYZ (Jun 13, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> No, they haven't built enough units the last few years in Denver and people keep moving into the state. First time home buyers are getting good prices and good interest rates. If this trend continues home values will increase in Denver at least once the forclosures are sold off.
> 
> Staying in your house makes sense. Only fools sell low. =)



What is going to happen when all of the new people join the current population in the Denver area that can't drive worth a damn?  I've been to the Denver area at least 10-12 times over a 4-5 year period and it's always the same thing, SLOW and clueless drivers everywhere, especially on the freeways.  

Here if you're not doing 75-80mph you get blown off the road.


----------



## heavyiron (Jun 13, 2012)

XYZ said:


> What is going to happen when all of the new people join the current population in the Denver area that can't drive worth a damn?  I've been to the Denver area at least 10-12 times over a 4-5 year period and it's always the same thing, SLOW and clueless drivers everywhere, especially on the freeways.
> 
> Here if you're not doing 75-80mph you get blown off the road.



Most of our bad drivers are from out of state and moved here recently....=)


----------



## heavyiron (Jun 13, 2012)

LAM said:


> all depends on where you live and how much land there is to develop for home growth.  one way to tell if rates are rising due to housing shortages vs investors and speculators buying up properties is if rents are increasing.
> 
> that is one of the tells that the housing boom/bubble was due to legislation and not supply & demand and especially in the big bubble states like AZ and NV.  if the overall housing supply is low then rents should also increase along with rising home values but they did not.



Rents are definately increasing here. Steady increases since the 4th quarter of 2011 and most apartment complexes are occupied in the 90%'s or even higher.


----------



## Braveheart82 (Jun 16, 2012)

BFHammer said:


> Savers are losers with taxes and inflation.  Buy rental property and get cash flow now instead of hoping and praying Obama bin Biden doesn't nationalize your 401k to pay for his half billion dollar vote buying to ACORN


Buying rental property sounds tempting but I always hear horror stories of bad tenants, no tenants, repairs, insurance, regulations, etc.


----------



## Braveheart82 (Jun 16, 2012)

SloppyJ said:


> I got lucky. As soon as I graduated from highschool I got a good job with a great company. I've been going to school and working full time ever since. I will graduate soon with my BA. I also have a technical degree for CAD. I will have no debt coming out of school. My cars are paid for and I took out no student loans. I feel ahead of the game.
> 
> I started investing in my 401k at 17yrs old. I defer the max amount that my company will match to. I don't like to pass up free money. My 401k took a hit with the recession but it bounced back and then some. I feel like I will be in good shape when it comes to retirement age. I'm 5-10yrs ahead of most people in terms of investing in a 401k.  And with that much of a jump on people, my last 5-10yrs of my career should yeild some nice gains in my retirement fund.
> 
> That is one of the best things I've ever done.


Damn! Respect.  Have to admit, a little jealous too lol but kudos for starting so young. I wish I had known then...


----------



## Braveheart82 (Jun 16, 2012)

Big Pimpin said:


> I encourage all of you who don't already to invest on weekly/monthly basis even if its a minimal amount.  The other day I used a retirement calculator to show my youngest employee (21) on what putting away just $25/week @ 5% looked like at age 65 and it blew his mind.  He's the typical 21yo who wastes serious money on his car and sushi dinners on Friday nights with the local sluts he's trying to impress, but like I told him he has no excuse not to put money away considering what he's paid (about $40K this year).  Luckily he agreed and I showed him how to set up a Scottrade account with auto funding.  Hopefully he sticks with it.
> 
> The best thing my dad ever did was give me a $2k IRA when I was 19yo all while telling me once again there will be no Social Security when you retire so invest accordingly.


GJ! You probably saved that kid's life in the long run.  He's going to owe you big time.  I wish somebody told me that when I was that age.


----------



## LAM (Jun 16, 2012)

jay_steel said:


> I am 28 and have been investing into my retirement 200$ since I was 18 and ensured that I am debt free. Only debt to my name is a new car loan and mortgage.



staying relative debt free going into the middle age is going to be paramount since wages for males peek at about 45 and women in the late 30's.  saving teaches one to delay gratification which is a huge skill that many lack.  the last thing people want to get themselves into is working to pay off debt for some bullshit they bought 20 years ago on a credit card.  the updated personal bankruptcy laws allow most revolving debt to follow people to their grave.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Jun 29, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> Oh, also there are no hidden fees anymore. New regs about 2 yeears ago made employer disclosure of fees a law and this year employee fees MUST be disclosed by law.



I said it before and I'll save it again.  These hidden fees are there and these new regulations are not effective.  After all....we're talking about Wall St. here.



> *Your family is probably losing $155K from 401(k) plan, and why new rules won't help*
> By Bob Sullivan
> 
> A two-income American family with an average income that dutifully invests in a 401(k) plan using typical strategies will lose $155,000 ? or about 30 percent of what they should have saved for retirement -- to Wall Street fees, according to a study by an economic justice advocacy organization.
> ...



http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/...om-401k-plan-and-why-new-rules-wont-help?lite


----------



## Gissurjon (Jun 29, 2012)

BP2000 said:


> When I was bartending in college a regular who used to come in gave me retirement advice.  He was a millionaire  (He came in each day and drank expensive wine/champagne)
> 
> He said not to try and get rich quick but save 10% of your income each year and invest it when good deals come by.



Last thing rich people want are more rich people, think about it.


----------



## Gissurjon (Jun 29, 2012)

jay_steel said:


> I am 28 and have been investing into my retirement 200$ since I was 18 and *ensured that I am debt free*. *Only debt to my name is a new car loan and mortgage*.



so you are not debt free?


----------



## Nightowl (Jun 29, 2012)

Curt James said:


> Have two 401k equivalents courtesy of the school district, but my longterm plan is to ride my motorcycle off a cliff when I reach the end of my rope, say age 120 or so.



Oh my!

here in the streets of CA, we've gotten an array of those without morals and values for themselves.  Twice the expenditures, because many of them are prone to be addicts.  The gruesome part, many of those that are trying to save and have their children make amends for their families are having cuts, but oh no, not the "dopeheads"  Okay, I am closing...boiling over and expletives are hitting my head again.  Peace out!


----------



## heavyiron (Jul 13, 2012)

Big Pimpin said:


> Congrats on the population growth and home demand...it's rare.



2nd quarter sales in Denver went very well. 

I'm steadily gaining equity back and locked into a 3.125% fixed rate refi today and cut 8 years off my mortgage.


----------



## heavyiron (Jul 14, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> I said it before and I'll save it again.  These hidden fees are there and these new regulations are not effective.  After all....we're talking about Wall St. here.
> Your family is probably losing $155K from 401(k) plan, and why new rules won't help - Red Tape



Well, the fees are not hidden on 401K plans according to law and even a person with basic high school math should be able to figure out the fee disclosure impact. Maybe someone with low IQ can't figure it out but that does not mean its hidden.


----------



## LAM (Jul 14, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> 2nd quarter sales in Denver went very well.
> 
> I'm steadily gaining equity back and locked into a 3.125% fixed rate refi today and cut 8 years off my mortgage.



your state was not effected much from the housing bubble, fast recovery there.  whatever you do don't pull out any equity that way you will have a cushion during the next economic downturn.


----------



## heavyiron (Jul 14, 2012)

LAM said:


> your state was not effected much from the housing bubble, fast recovery there.  whatever you do don't pull out any equity that way you will have a cushion during the next economic downturn.



No way I would pull equity. We are trying to build it by going to a 15 year fixed loan. Between the local housing market recovery and more money towards principal we will most certainly have a cushion.

Btw, new home buyers in Colorado are in an awesome position. Low housing prices and unbeatable interest rates. Time to buy.


----------



## Bowden (Jul 14, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> 2nd quarter sales in Denver went very well.
> 
> I'm steadily gaining equity back and locked into a 3.125% fixed rate refi today and cut 8 years off my mortgage.



Smart move.
I refinanced my mortgage to a 15 year lower interest rate and the reduction of interest I pay total over the mortgage life is incredible.


----------



## squigader (Jul 14, 2012)

Braveheart82 said:


> I read in a CNN article a couple weeks back that 49% aren't saving ANYTHING for retirement. That's freaking scary. Will old people be living in the streets 40 years from now?  I just have a Roth and I max it out. When I pay off my student loans and cc debt, then I'll open up a taxable and invest some more.  Need to start when you're young.  How many of you are actually saving for retirement?



You'd be crazy not to save for retirement. Just a suggestion though - if you're student loans/CC debt are at a higher interest rate than the returns you're making from your IRA, I'd suggest paying off the loans/debt ahead of funding your retirement.


----------



## squigader (Jul 14, 2012)

Big Pimpin said:


> I encourage all of you who don't already to invest on weekly/monthly basis even if its a minimal amount.  The other day I used a retirement calculator to show my youngest employee (21) on what putting away just $25/week @ 5% looked like at age 65 and it blew his mind.  He's the typical 21yo who wastes serious money on his car and sushi dinners on Friday nights with the local sluts he's trying to impress, but like I told him he has no excuse not to put money away considering what he's paid (about $40K this year).  Luckily he agreed and I showed him how to set up a Scottrade account with auto funding.  Hopefully he sticks with it.
> 
> The best thing my dad ever did was give me a $2k IRA when I was 19yo all while telling me once again there will be no Social Security when you retire so invest accordingly.



You're a good man for doing that for your employee. Even better that he realized you were right 
Measly reps for you, buddy.


----------



## theCaptn' (Jul 14, 2012)

I had the foresight to start investing in gold bullion 8 years ago. I bet even that Jew Big Smoothy isn't as savvy as me!


----------



## Gregzs (Jul 16, 2012)

NBA Players Forced to Save Toward Retirement for First Time - Bloomberg

[h=1]NBA Players Forced to Save Toward Retirement for First Time[/h]            By Scott Soshnick -             Jul 12, 2012
National Basketball Association players, who were paid an average of about $5 million last season, will be forced for the first time to save money for retirement. 

Players in the league this past season will receive $34 million, or 1 percent of what the league and union call basketball-related income, to be invested in an annuity, union attorney Ron Klempner said. 
Details of the plan, such as which annuity will be chosen or how the money will be distributed, need to be worked out, Klempner said. 

?We know that it?ll deliver good, fair returns,? he said in a telephone interview. 
The program is part of the 10-year collective bargaining agreement between the NBA and the players union that ended a lockout in November. 

Former NBA players Scottie Pippen, Latrell Sprewell and Antoine Walker are among retired professional athletes who have experienced financial difficulty after careers in which they earned tens of millions of dollars. Walker filed for bankruptcy after being paid more than $100 million over 12 years in the NBA. 

?It?s a start,? player agent Keith Glass said in a telephone interview. ?It does force you to save something, and that?s a good idea.? 

Retired players can access the money before their pensions begin at age 50. Players can take an early pension at 45, Klempner said. 
Basketball-related income in the NBA will top $4 billion next season, meaning the amount of forced savings also will rise. 

Beginning next season, players also will surrender 5 percent to 10 percent of their salary for retirement. They automatically will be enrolled in the program and would have to opt-out to keep from participating in the plan, Klempner said. 
Investment details for that plan aren?t complete, Klempner said.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Jul 16, 2012)

LAM said:


> in regards to housing it's not speculation at all economists have written dozens of papers on the subject, it was forecast decades ago.  the problem is too many get their economic information from tv and politicians the 2 worst places for accurate information.
> 
> there is going to be a major housing surplus between boomers selling off to finance retirement and generation Y not having the funds (college loan debt, low paying jobs, etc.) or the desire to jump right into home ownership (starting families later in life) and being very mobile.  the cities/states with the majority of boomers are in:
> *
> * with wages stagnant and falling far short of the rate of inflation the past 25 years there is no reason to think that home values will create the same wealth for the next generation that it did for the boomers before the housing crisis*.



This is so true that it's worth re-posting. 

For my generation (X) and the following generation (Y) and the so-called Millennials: if you take out a mortgage and "buy" a house _you are paying for a place to live._


----------



## Big Smoothy (Jul 16, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> Well, the fees are not hidden on 401K plans according to law and even a person with basic high school math should be able to figure out the fee disclosure impact. Maybe someone with low IQ can't figure it out but that does not mean its hidden.



Hidden fees are hidden.  They are not disclosed clearly and/or disclosed at all.


----------



## Gregzs (Oct 16, 2012)

How to avoid going broke in retirement - CBS News


----------



## LAM (Oct 16, 2012)

very, very few will be able to save for retirement especially with most unable to even to even contribute to a savings account and those have actual retirement accounts are earning returns that are just about equal to the real inflation rate of about 4-5%.  every decade the dollars loses about 25% of it's purchasing power.

many have to get used to the fact that consumption habits have to slow as you get older instead of "living it up" and being able to spend more as you age.  wages for US workers in most sectors peak in the early 40's for women and late 40's for males.


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## theCaptn' (Oct 17, 2012)

Invest in gold and silver bullion.


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## theCaptn' (Oct 17, 2012)

Invest in gold and silver bullion.


----------



## jay_steel (Oct 17, 2012)

theCaptn' said:


> Invest in gold and silver bullion.



I all most did this to back in 2005... I had 45k saved up and was either going to invest in gold or pay off debt and put into my car. Yeah i did the dumb thing and now have a fucking car with 60k in mods.


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## jay_steel (Oct 17, 2012)

But.. Military TSP @ 120$ a month for 10 years, 15% of my IT job income goes into mutual fund and stocks my grandmother controls (she is a retired finance manager) then 100% of farming (loss right now) but every thing will go back into the farm. That is my retirement, on on getting large enough so I can sale it for a good amount for either land value for development or pass it on to kids to run but still be a partner for revenue. 

Also a mistake I made for an investment was to purchase lake side land that I bought cheap and was estimated at one point to be 800k for a lot, but is now worthless because no one wants an empty lot. Didn't look into the cost of the fees to get water, electricity, and a road to the lot so its all most pointless with this economy. 6 years ago people were buying and building like crazy. Enconmy crashed no ones wants a lot with that much over head to put a house on any more.


----------



## LAM (Oct 17, 2012)

theCaptn' said:


> Invest in gold and silver bullion.



to late for that.  should have been on that train the early 2000's at the latest when it was $400 .oz now it's still a tad under $1800 .oz


----------



## HeavyLifter (Oct 17, 2012)

I've been saving since I was 19.... But it's from the military, when I first enlisted it didn't mean anything now with two kids and a husband it means a lot more


----------



## Swiper (Oct 17, 2012)

theCaptn' said:


> Invest in gold and silver bullion.



agree.  the dollar will crash or become close to useless.  hopefully then gold and silver will become legal tender once again.


----------



## theCaptn' (Oct 17, 2012)

LAM said:


> to late for that.  should have been on that train the early 2000's at the latest when it was $400 .oz now it's still a tad under $1800 .oz



It's not too late. Silver will lead. At least double price, with some forecasts to 200 dollars. Grain futures is another good investment. 

Also follow tin, there is a global shortage with dwindling reserves and increasing demand due to substituting lead in many products.

I got a MSc in Mineral Economics Jew


----------



## LAM (Oct 17, 2012)

theCaptn' said:


> It's not too late. Silver will lead. At least double price, with some forecasts to 200 dollars. Grain futures is another good investment.
> 
> Also follow tin, there is a global shortage with dwindling reserves and increasing demand due to substituting lead in many products.
> 
> I got a MSc in Mineral Economics Jew



did you invest in stainless steel during the housing boom?


----------



## theCaptn' (Oct 17, 2012)

LAM said:


> did you invest in stainless steel during the housing boom?



No I invested in nickel and iron ore mining stocks


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## Big Pimpin (Oct 18, 2012)

theCaptn' said:


> No I invested in nickel and iron ore mining stocks



I hear investing in brisket futures can be lucrative.


----------



## theCaptn' (Oct 18, 2012)




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## lovethislife (Oct 18, 2012)

Best thing to do is have cash in a hidden safe in your house. If the system crashes and you have all of your funds in a bank your fucked also one day cash will have worthless value we will go back to bartering for things so it's best to keep your options open and learn what you can.


----------



## HeavyLifter (Oct 18, 2012)

lovethislife said:


> Best thing to do is have cash in a hidden safe in your house. If the system crashes and you have all of your funds in a bank your fucked also one day cash will have worthless value we will go back to bartering for things so it's best to keep your options open and learn what you can.



I agree with this, I still have money in a savings and 401-k but I always have money stashed away for the "what if" moments.


----------



## jay_steel (Oct 18, 2012)

i have all my money invested into tren... liquid gold


----------



## NVRBDR (Oct 18, 2012)

If "the system" crashes, can we trade some of my cash for some of your tren?


----------



## theCaptn' (Oct 19, 2012)

Jimmyusa said:


> If "the system" crashes, can we trade some of my cash for some of your tren?



If the system crashes you'll be sucking cawk for gearz


----------



## NVRBDR (Oct 19, 2012)

you hold strong digital positions, I hold a strong hard cash position, who's gonna be sucking cawk for gear


----------



## theCaptn' (Oct 20, 2012)

Bro if the system crashes you might as well wipe your arse with your cash money.


----------



## Gregzs (Oct 30, 2012)

Many in Middle Class 'Guess' on Retirement Needs - NYTimes.com

[h=1]Many in Middle Class ?Guess? on Retirement Needs[/h] By ANN CARRNS
Three-fourths of middle-class Americans say their estimate of what they?ll need to live on in retirement is based on ?some sort of guess,? a new survey finds.
And those guesses often appear off the mark, according to the annual Wells Fargo Retirement Survey.

For instance, middle-class Americans say they believe the median cost of their out-of-pocket health care costs in retirement will be $47,000. But the Center for Retirement Research estimates a typical couple at age 65 can expect to spend $260,000 or more over the rest of their lives.

Further, when asked what percentage of their nest egg they expect to withdraw annually in retirement, the median ? or typical ? withdrawal predicted by middle-class Americans is 10 percent. But most experts recommend annual withdrawals of 3 to 4 percent.

In addition, middle-class Americans say they?ll need a median of $300,000 to support themselves in retirement ? but to date have saved only $25,000.
The survey also found that 34 percent of middle-class Americans estimate that their retirement income will be half their current annual income, or less. The median household income for Americans was roughly $50,000 last year, so that means many are planning on living on $25,000.

?Clearly, the guessing doesn?t work,? said Laurie Nordquist, a director of institutional retirement and trust services at Wells Fargo. The survey findings suggest that many consumers are too focused on paying day-to-day bills to spend more time on retirement planning, she said, even though that?s clearly warranted.

Harris Interactive Inc. conducted the telephone survey of 1,000 middle-class adults from July 9 through Sept. 12. To aim at the middle class, participants fell within specified income and wealth brackets. For example, those between the ages of 30 and 75 had 2011 household income of $50,000 to $99,999, and assets of $25,000 to $99,999 that could be invested.

Have you done detailed calculations of your financial needs in retirement, or are you, too, playing the guessing game?


----------



## LAM (Oct 30, 2012)

300K for retirement?  maybe if they are only planning in living a couple of years into it...that figure is way to low for two people and one also has to account for the loss of purchasing power of the dollar which is about 25% every decade.

the avg american has no concept of economics or the function of money/currency in reality....


----------



## Jodi (Nov 2, 2012)

I have 401K that 7% into and increase .5 -1% with each raise I get, ESPP that I'm on the max % allowed but that's an automatic 15% return on investment, IRA from previous companies 401K programs that I've rolled over into and I invest the max allowed per year, a rental home and I have a play fund that I do some trading with.  I'm on track (if all goes well) to retire by 60 with 1.5M.  Uggh 20 more years to go......


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## heavyiron (Nov 3, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> Hidden fees are hidden.  They are not disclosed clearly and/or disclosed at all.



Maybe a year ago but not today. Re-look at post #38 and educate your self on 408(b)(2) disclosure regulations. All fees are required to be disclosed by law.


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## Big Smoothy (Nov 4, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> Maybe a year ago but not today. Re-look at post #38 and educate your self on 408(b)(2) disclosure regulations. All fees are required to be disclosed by law.



My post is still the same today.

My original post is still accurate.

You trust this people?

You trust a "regulation?"  Don't.

These hidden fees are still going on - fact.  

You seem adamant.  Perhaps you have too much invested over the year and you're reluctant to get out.


----------



## heavyiron (Nov 4, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> My post is still the same today.
> 
> My original post is still accurate.
> 
> ...



My better half is a 401K anaylist. She is an expert on retirement IRS regs so I get to hear an hour of IRS rules and regs on my drive home from work daily when we car pool. The 408 b2 disclosure reg was a big deal in her industry. Many providers implemented it 6 months before the law required. She advises plan administrators and does testing for huge corporations. Her department has thousands of employees so this is a major player in retirement services. Some of the disclosures are in formulas so the average guy with a low IQ might not be able to calculate the fees but the formulas are provided and have to be by law. If a plan is out of compliance a participant can call the DOL to investigate. If there was a non compliance issue the DOL contacts the IRS and an audit will force the issue.

 What hidden fees are you posting about?


----------



## Fitnbuf (Nov 4, 2012)

Other then 401k I invest all my money to my kids right now...The more successful they are the more likely I can live with them and be the crazy old lady that never holds back her opinions...diarrhea of the mouth all day long!!!!  Paybacks a b!tch!   hehehe


----------



## LAM (Nov 4, 2012)

best not to invest too heavily into the overvalued US stock market as the events of 2008 will happen again.  the years of 1982-2007 was nothing but one big "asset" bubble with it bursting in 2008.

The amount of money in the US economy (and no other) is not the number of actual, physical dollars (of which there are something around $900B, most of which does not circulate much). Nor is it reserves held by the Fed to back its lending facilities to member banks. Nor is it all the loans and mortgages those banks have issued, using those reserves at the Fed as collateral. Nor is it all that credit card and student loan debt floating around out there. The supply of money in our economy is all of those things and much, much more.

Anything that can be used as money (e.g. spent), or can be used to collateralize credit (which is the same thing as money when fractional reserve lending and maturity transformation are legal), IS money under the kind of system we have.  and since the 80's almost the entire increase in US GDP and gains in the US stock indexes is built upon this fake wealth as are the fortunes of those in finance that had the laws and regulations made and passed to create this new US economy which started in the 80's and was built on "capital" investment and fueled by debt both public and private.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Nov 4, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> My better half is a 401K anaylist. She is an expert on retirement IRS regs so I get to hear an hour of IRS rules and regs on my drive home from work daily when we car pool. The 408 b2 disclosure reg was a big deal in her industry. Many providers implemented it 6 months before the law required. She advises plan administrators and does testing for huge corporations. Her department has thousands of employees so this is a major player in retirement services. Some of the disclosures are in formulas so the average guy with a low IQ might not be able to calculate the fees but the formulas are provided and have to be by law. If a plan is out of compliance a participant can call the DOL to investigate. If there was a non compliance issue the DOL contacts the IRS and an audit will force the issue.
> 
> What hidden fees are you posting about?



Thanks for the note and info, Heavy Iron.

If I stand to be corrected I want to be.  I just hope that these shenanigans are being eradicated.


----------



## LAM (Nov 4, 2012)

the problem with the future of many stocks tied to US large firms is that the company's don't have much equity.  for years majority shareholders have been extracted dividends for themselves in cash and replacing it with debt, which means many years down the road regular shareholders are going to get screwed out of their investment monies they should have had coming to them.  

it's why I don't fuck with US stocks anymore the whole financial system in the US is one big bag of bullshit.


----------



## Gregzs (Nov 18, 2012)

Map: States With Parental Support Laws | Bankrate.com


----------



## KelJu (Nov 18, 2012)

I don't save anything. If I am not healthy enough to work, then I am not healthy enough to live. My method works well for me, but only because I have almost no possessions or responsibilities. If I can't come up with $800 a month to fund my meager existence, then I have bigger problems to deal with.


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## Big Smoothy (Nov 18, 2012)

KelJu said:


> I don't save anything. If I am not healthy enough to work, then I am not healthy enough to live. My method works well for me, but only because I have almost no possessions or responsibilities. If I can't come up with $800 a month to fund my meager existence, then I have bigger problems to deal with.



I feel the same way Kelju.

I have almost no possessions and intentionally try to keep it that way.  

I am saving again however.  I'm in my early 40s now, and in my mid and late 20s I saved.  I saved a little in my early thirties and a little in my mid 30s: IRAs maxed out, Index funds, etc.  

Then, I stopped saving for a while because worked slowed down and I was not concerned about it.

I probably have 25-35 years left on this planet.  I plan to work until I am too old mentally or physically able to work - based on basic math, stats, and numbers.  It will cost too much to every "retire" for most of us.

This does not mean I do not want to have anything in old age.  When we are old, may usually need money.  Some money.  

A lot of my (and our future) depends on our health.  

We can control this to a large degree, but as we know, as we age, medical things happen.

We do not know how much time we have left, and we don't know how we're going to check out.  This is why I try to do the things I want to do sooner than later in life.


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## LAM (Nov 18, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> We do not know how much time we have left, and we don't know how we're going to check out.  This is why I try to do the things I want to do sooner than later in life.



when I was younger I didn't give a rats ass about anything, I lived for the moment.  then when I learned how things really worked I switched focus for a little to make sure I didn't get caught in the debt trap.  now I'm trying to live more because there isn't always a tomorrow for everyone.

I'm actually in the process of closing my business here in Vegas and moving to St Croix.  going to try to find a way to use this pilot's license and have some fun while doing it.


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## Big Smoothy (Nov 19, 2012)

LAM said:


> when I was younger I didn't give a rats ass about anything, I lived for the moment.  then when I learned how things really worked I switched focus for a little to make sure I didn't get caught in the debt trap.  now I'm trying to live more because there isn't always a tomorrow for everyone.



Good on you LAM on avoiding the "debt trap."  It is....a trap.  

I am almost debt free with about a $1,000 in total debt.



> I'm actually in the process of closing my business here in Vegas and moving to St Croix.  going to try to find a way to use this pilot's license and have some fun while doing it.



Good luck on this and keep us posted.


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## KelJu (Nov 19, 2012)

I lost my entire 20s working for my future. When that future become the present, I was disappointed with the decisions I made. The things I bought with the money I was able to make was not worth the time I lost getting it. I am still in debt for my education, and most of the people I went to school with that skipped college and went right to work are doing much better financially than many of the ones who went to college. 

More so, the ones who have a house, a truck, and a mortgage are always worried about their financial future, where as the ones who have very little seem to have no worries t all. 

I have come to the conclusion that owning things and sacrificing for the future are the two most destructive forces in my life. So, I will make as much money as I can doing things I enjoy while buying as few things as possible.  If I can do those two things, I will be free to live for today, not for a future that may never come. I really wish I would have figured it out sooner, but better late than never.


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## pjliftsalot (Nov 19, 2012)

I have my own business and I invest via something called a SEP. Its a self Employed Plan.
I set it up right through my bank with some advice from my accountant.


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## Big Smoothy (Nov 19, 2012)

KelJu said:


> I lost my entire 20s working for my future. When that future become the present, I was disappointed with the decisions I made. The things I bought with the money I was able to make was not worth the time I lost getting it. I am still in debt for my education, and most of the people I went to school with that skipped college and went right to work are doing much better financially than many of the ones who went to college.
> 
> More so, the ones who have a house, a truck, and a mortgage are always worried about their financial future, where as the ones who have very little seem to have no worries t all.
> 
> I have come to the conclusion that owning things and sacrificing for the future are the two most destructive forces in my life. So, I will make as much money as I can doing things I enjoy while buying as few things as possible.  If I can do those two things, I will be free to live for today, not for a future that may never come. I really wish I would have figured it out sooner, but better late than never.



You make points I can identify with, Kelju.

I know a lot of people in the US that are "living for the future." 

Many people's psychological identity is tied to the things they "have."  And they do not need to "own" these things.  They can borrow to "have" them.

Yes, definitely on people with mortgages being concerned about their financial security.  One economic hiccup can send a person or family into irrevocable trouble.  I know people that paid into expensive mortgages for years (most payments go to interest) and they ended up losing their houses.  One family member committed suicide as he could not deal with it. 

The 30-year mortgage was promoted by government in after the labor disputes of the 1920s.  People are a lot easier to control and a lot more docile when they have borrowed an amount of money that takes thirty years to pay off. 

Mortgage is a French word.  The root of the word is "mor" --> mortuary, mortician, mortality, moribund.  --> death

"gage" means 'pledge'

Mortgage = death pledge.


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## LAM (Nov 19, 2012)

pjliftsalot said:


> I have my own business and I invest via something called a SEP. Its a self Employed Plan.
> I set it up right through my bank with some advice from my accountant.



since you manage your own retirement with your SEP make sure the firms you invest your monies in are not heavily involved in financials.  eventually all of the firms that do are going to go bankrupt and your shares will be worthless.  there are dozens of US large firms that have no equity because it has been extracted via cash dividends being paid out to executives and replaced with debt.  it's exactly what the people at Hostess did and many others.


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## KelJu (Nov 19, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> Mortgage is a French word.  The root of the word is "mor" --> mortuary, mortician, mortality, moribund.  --> death
> 
> "gage" means 'pledge'
> 
> Mortgage = death pledge.




That is fucking awesome dude. I don't know if it is true, but I like it.


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## Big Smoothy (Nov 19, 2012)

KelJu said:


> That is fucking awesome dude. I don't know if it is true, but I like it.



Kelju,

I forgot the original source, but I read it somewhere on the word "mortgage."

As for the control of people and instigating the 30 year mortgage in the US, I watched a presentation/seminar by a famous marketing & advertising guy (forgot his name) who discussed this.

I'll try to google later.


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## LAM (Nov 19, 2012)

Big Smoothy said:


> Kelju,
> 
> I forgot the original source, but I read it somewhere on the word "mortgage."
> 
> ...



I can't think of another country in the world where you can get a 30 year mortgage.  considering the instability of the US economy, housing in the US will never be the same.  TRA97 changed the home from a long term investment into a short term commodity and ruined the market forever and the document below pretty much supports that along with the "changes" in the overall US economy these past decades.


REFORMING AMERICA?S
HOUSING FINANCE MARKET
A REPORT TO CONGRESS
February 2011
http://www.treasury.gov/initiatives/Documents/Reforming America's Housing Finance Market.pdf


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## LAM (Nov 19, 2012)

another thing that many don't realize is that buying stocks, bonds, gold, etc. is not investing it's simply allocating future savings against future permanent losses and losses of purchasing power.  nothing more than a hedge against potential loss of purchasing power in the future.  savings being nothing more than future consumption.  there are no true "investments" in secondary markets your savings it's really "earning" it's simply not losing purchasing power.

this is the mistake that many babyboomers made in regards to the housing crisis.  they mistook equity which is nothing more than the present far market value as being equal to savings, which it certainly is not.  during the years of the manufactured housing boom many people either "forget" basic market principles of equity based assets but most never knew them.  pulling out equity to fuel consumption in the present is pretty much the opposite if spending savings, increasing future debt for consumption today.


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## Gregzs (Apr 12, 2013)

Boost your Social Security payout by $100,000 - CBS News

(MoneyWatch) The most important decision you'll make regarding your Social Security income is when to start receiving benefits. Welcome back to the second week of posts on Social Security as part of my 16-week series on planning your retirement.
If you're married, then your spouse faces the same decision regarding their spousal benefit based on your earnings. But your situation becomes more complex if your spouse also worked most of his or her career and will be receiving a significant Social Security income based on his or her own earnings record.
  To help you determine the best age for you and your spouse to start benefits, I'm going to borrow some words of wisdom from author Andy Landis, who offers an excellent description of the considerations you need to take into account in the latest edition of his book, Social Security: The Inside Story. According to Landis, here's what you have to do: "Remember two numbers: age 78 and age 82-1/2." Let's see why he says this.
  We're going to look at three people born in 1951, all currently earning $75,000 per year and all earning similar amounts in prior years, adjusted for wage inflation. All three plan to stop working at age 62. Person A plans to start Social Security at age 66 (the Full Retirement Age, or FRA, for these three individuals). The initial monthly income for this age-66 starter will be $2,000 per month. Person B plans to start Social Security at age 62 and will receive $1,500 per month. Person C is going to wait until age 70 to start Social Security and will receive $2,640 per month.
  Landis's yardstick for Social Security success is the total amount of income you'll receive over your lifetime. Using this yardstick, the age-62 starter will be "money ahead" of the age-66 starter during the early years of retirement because of the four years of payments the age-66 starter missed by waiting to start benefits until age 66. But, according to Landis, the age-66 starter will catch up to the age-62 starter by age 78 and will thereafter be money ahead. By age 85, the age-66 starter will be ahead by $42,000.


What you need to know about Social Security
 Social Security spouse benefits -- the rules of the road
How long will you live?
16 weeks to plan the rest of your life
You can start receiving Social Security income as early as age 62, but your income is increased significantly for each year that you delay starting benefits until age 70. There's no increase for starting benefits any time after your 70th birthday.  Now let's compare the age-66 starter with the age-70 starter, using the same logic. The age-70 starter will catch up to the age-66 starter if he or she lives to age 82-1/2. By age 85, the age-70 starter will be money ahead of the age-66 starter by $19,200 and money ahead of the age-62 starter by $61,200. If the age-70 starter lives to age 90, he or she will be money ahead of the age-66 starter by $57,600 and money ahead of the age-62 starter by $129,600.
  Do you think you'll live to your late 70s or early 80s? There's a very good chance you'll make it to these ages if you don't smoke or abuse alcohol, keep your weight at a healthy level, and eat a balanced, low-fat diet. So if you think you'll live until age 78, then waiting to start your benefits until age 66 is the best strategy. And if you think you'll make it to age 82-1/2, then waiting to start benefits until age 70 is the best strategy for you. 
  The difference in total benefits is one very important reason why estimating your life expectancy should be a critical part of your retirement planning. Two good websites that offer calculators to help you do this are www.livingto100.com and www.bluezones.com.
  The "money ahead" amounts shown above are just for one person; a married couple can gain higher amounts by carefully selecting the start date for each spouse, which could easily add more than $100,000 in payouts over their joint lifetimes.
  Of course, Landis's analysis doesn't reflect such factors as inflation, cost-of-living increases, possible benefit cuts, taxation of Social Security benefits, investment earnings, and wage earnings after age 62. But I've seen other analyses that do consider some of these factors (and significantly complicate the analysis), and they still result in nearly the same conclusions regarding "break-even" ages.
  But don't let all the numbers you'll have to deal with intimidate you -- it's well worth your time to do the math and make informed choices about when to start your Social Security benefits. It could put many thousands of extra dollars into your retirement pockets. Stay tuned for my next post that discusses Social Security strategies for married couples.


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## Big Smoothy (Apr 13, 2013)

> To help you determine the *best age* for you and your spouse to start benefits, I'm going to borrow some words of wisdom from author Andy Landis, who offers an excellent description of the considerations you need to take into account in the latest edition of his book, Social Security: The Inside Story. According to Landis, here's what you have to do: *"Remember two numbers: age 78 and age 82-1/2." Let's see why he says this.*
> 
> We're going to look at three people born in 1951, all currently earning $75,000 per year and all earning similar amounts in prior years, adjusted for wage inflation. All three plan to stop working at age 62. Person A plans to start Social Security at age 66 (the Full Retirement Age, or FRA, for these three individuals). The initial monthly income for this age-66 starter will be $2,000 per month. Person B plans to start Social Security at age 62 and will receive $1,500 per month. Person C is going to wait until age 70 to start Social Security and will receive $2,640 per month.
> Landis's yardstick for Social Security success is the total amount of income you'll receive over your lifetime. Using this yardstick, the age-62 starter will be "money ahead" of the age-66 starter during the early years of retirement because of the four years of payments the age-66 starter missed by waiting to start benefits until age 66. But, according to Landis, the age-66 starter will catch up to the age-62 starter *by age 78 and will thereafter be money ahead. By age 85, the age-66 starter will be ahead by $42,000*.



The numbers based on _what age you elect to receive_ are well known.  It's math.  Basic mathematics. 

But there is ONE major hole in this argument of waiting b/c you'll get significantly more in returns - see my bold texts above.

People do not usually know how long they're going to live.  (Unless one has a diagnosis, for example).

Sure, healthy people live longer in general and their quality of life is better as they live longer.

But I knew a 'health nut' who ate healthy and workout consistently who got annual physicals - except for the colonascopy and was given a death sentence of 2 years with a diagnoses of colon cancer.  

Many, many, Americans check out early for the common reasons: heart disease, heart attack, strokes, anyueurisms and the nasty "C" - Cancer. 

Look how unhealthy people are (members on this forum in general may be an exception to the general American public).

If we knew when we were going to die, life and finances would be a lot easier to plan.


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## FUZO (Apr 14, 2013)

My wife and I put money away every month so when we are old and retired we wont have to do shit and are daughter wilkl be taken care of


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## Bowden (Apr 14, 2013)

LAM said:


> another thing that many don't realize is that buying stocks, bonds, gold, etc. is not investing it's simply allocating future savings against future permanent losses and losses of purchasing power.  nothing more than a hedge against potential loss of purchasing power in the future.  savings being nothing more than future consumption.  there are no true "investments" in secondary markets your savings it's really "earning" it's simply not losing purchasing power.
> 
> this is the mistake that many babyboomers made in regards to the housing crisis.  they mistook equity which is nothing more than the present far market value as being equal to savings, which it certainly is not.  during the years of the manufactured housing boom many people either "forget" basic market principles of equity based assets but most never knew them.  pulling out equity to fuel consumption in the present is pretty much the opposite if spending savings, increasing future debt for consumption today.



Investing for retirement is not the same as saving for retirement.
Investing  for retirement equals increased risk of loss of retirement capital in  return for possible increase on retirement capital. 
Saving for retirement equals no risk to retirement capital and return of all retirement capital .

I have no idea as to why the meaning of savings vs. investing is not made clear to the general public as to understanding retirement capital financial risk.
You see this issue constantly in mass market financial publications and on retail brokerage websites that never make clear that saving for retirement is not the same as investing for retirement. 
They confuse the concepts of saving for retirement with investing for retirement and they confuse people by suggesting that people save for retirement via investing for retirement in the stock market.
The result is that people never understand the concepts of investment risk related to possible loss of retirement capital and are shocked when their retirement 401k capital balance drops by approx. 45% like it did following the recent great recession.


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## Big Smoothy (Apr 15, 2013)

FUZO said:


> My wife and I put money away every month so when we are old and retired we wont have to do shit and are daughter wilkl be taken care of



It depends on how much your saving per month, how long you plan to save (years)  and what % return you're getting.

Anyone with savings in a US bank account is losing money now.


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## LAM (Apr 15, 2013)

Bowden said:


> I have no idea as to why the meaning of savings vs. investing is not made clear to the general public as to understanding retirement capital financial risk.
> You see this issue constantly in mass market financial publications and on retail brokerage websites that never make clear that saving for retirement is not the same as investing for retirement.
> They confuse the concepts of saving for retirement with investing for retirement and they confuse people by suggesting that people save for retirement via investing for retirement in the stock market.
> The result is that people never understand the concepts of investment risk related to possible loss of retirement capital and are shocked when their retirement 401k capital balance drops by approx. 45% like it did following the recent great recession.



they do not want people to know how finance works.  the less the general population knows the easier it is for them to be taken advantage of, via various methods of rent seeking, etc.


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## Braveheart82 (Apr 17, 2013)

KelJu said:


> I don't save anything. If I am not healthy enough to work, then I am not healthy enough to live. My method works well for me, but only because I have almost no possessions or responsibilities. If I can't come up with $800 a month to fund my meager existence, then I have bigger problems to deal with.


I agree with living minimally but you should still have some money socked away in case of emergencies. Stuff happens.


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## Gregzs (Aug 21, 2013)

New tool helps estimate your retirement income - CBS News

New tool helps estimate your retirement income

(MoneyWatch) How much reliable, lifetime retirement income can you generate from your savings? That's a critical question for baby boomers approaching their retirement years without traditional pension benefits. These days, most people are on their own to use their IRAs and 401(k) balances to generate a retirement income that supplements Social Security benefits -- and they don't have a clue about how to estimate how much retirement income they can actually generate.

Fortunately, there's a new tool you can use as you approach retirement that can help you estimate what potential income you can expect. BlackRock recently introduced the CoRI Retirement Index, which provides a daily measure of how much annual income your current savings could generate beginning at age 65. According to BlackRock's website, the tool is designed to be used only by people age 55 to 64 because "the required calculations for each CoRI Retirement Index is based on precise information for this age group."

The basic application is fairly simple. After visiting the BlackRock site and clicking on the CoRI Retirement Index link, move the slider to your current age, and the index will tell you how much savings it would take to provide one dollar of annual retirement income. For example, the index recently produced a value of $15.81 for someone age 60. That means that if a 60-year-old wanted an annual retirement income of one dollar starting at age 65, it would take a current amount of savings of $15.81 to generate this income. 


Then, if you plug in the value of your current savings, the system will show you how much annual retirement income you might expect to receive at age 65. In the above example, I hit the button "calculate retirement income" and it asked me for my current level of savings. I input $100,000 and received a value of $6,325. This means that if I had savings of $100,000 at age 60, my estimated retirement income at age 65 would be $6,325 per year.


The index is intended to estimate the retirement income you'd receive if you invested in a conservative bond portfolio from your current age until retirement at age 65, and then bought an inflation-adjusted immediate annuity to generate retirement income. The index is updated daily to reflect current bond rates and annuity purchase rates.


In the process of testing the tool, I compared the results from the CoRI Retirement Index and found it produced results that are similar to my most recent retirement income scorecard for immediate annuities. 


If you decide to use the index, as with any tool, you'll want to understand how it's constructed and the proper applications. After all, you wouldn't use a Phillips head screwdriver with a flat-head screw. 


First, because the index assumes you'll invest your savings conservatively until age 65 and then buy a competitively priced annuity, it's important to understand that if you use other investments and methods of generating retirement income, your retirement income could be much different.


For example, the CoRI Retirement Index produces significantly higher amounts of retirement income than the amounts you would receive if you invested in a portfolio of stocks and bonds, and then used systematic withdrawals with the "four percent rule" as your guide to generate your retirement income. The reason is, with systematic withdrawals, you're self-insuring your longevity risk and need to hold back your withdrawals in case you live a long time or experience poor investment returns. 


With an immediate inflation-adjusted annuity, the insurance company guarantees your monthly payments no matter how long you live, and it also guarantees your retirement income regardless of returns in capital markets.


Even if you buy an immediate annuity with your retirement savings, your retirement income could be different from the index value for the following reasons:

The index is constructed to produce the same average values for men and women. If you buy an annuity on the open market, insurance companies require more savings from women than men, because women are expected to live longer than men on average. 


The index assumes you're single. If you buy a joint and survivor annuity that pays income as long as either you or your beneficiary is alive, you'll receive a lower retirement income.


The index assumes you'll buy a simple, competitively priced annuity. If you buy an annuity with high transaction charges and/or expensive bells and whistles, you could receive a lower retirement income.


The index assumes you'll start your retirement income at age 65. Starting sooner will produce lower income amounts, and starting later will produce higher income amounts.


The index assumes your retirement income is indexed for inflation. If you buy an immediate annuity that is fixed in dollar amount, you'll receive a higher retirement income.


It's smart to compare amounts of retirement income you might actually receive and understand the reasons why there may be differences from the index values. That can help you make more informed decisions about your retirement income. 


If you're working with a financial advisor who estimates amounts of retirement income for you that are different from the index, you should ask for an explanation and understand the reasons for the differences. Keep in mind that there can be reasonable explanations for these differences. Your job is to work with an advisor who understands the various methods of producing retirement income and has your best interests at heart.


BlackRock's online system contains links to additional help with planning a secure retirement income. Chip Castille, managing director at BlackRock, said the company is planning future enhancements of the index that will help you personalize your estimates of retirement income, such as using retirement ages other than 65 and selecting a joint and survivor annuity instead of a single life annuity.


BlackRock's CoRI Retirement Index can help you with a critical retirement planning task -- generating retirement income from your savings. The more you learn about this important topic, the better your retirement can be.


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## LAM (Aug 22, 2013)

the only thing about those tools is that none of them adjust purchasing power of the USD for inflation, so they all understate how much a person really needs.


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## SheriV (Aug 22, 2013)

we stopped investing and saving for retirement this year...not because we could but because we had to.

I agree with living simply and not being in debt...the monthly mortgage payoff amount horrifies me.


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## Chiro Flex (Dec 28, 2013)

I put 15% in to my companies 401k that they match


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## Swiper (Dec 28, 2013)

LAM said:


> the only thing about those tools is that none of them adjust purchasing power of the USD for inflation, so they all understate how much a person really needs.



At the end of obamas rein of terror we'll have over and 20 Trillion in national debt.  (Obama took office when it was 10 Trillion) when interest rates rise to say about 5%, that's a total of 1Trillion dollars we have to pay on just the interest of the debt per year. we currently pay about 300 billion with interest rates next to zero, we take in just over 2 trillion in revenue. my question is, what will happen then when we take in only 2 trillion and have pay to the interest on the debt 1 trillion?


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## LAM (Dec 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> At the end of obamas rein of terror we'll have over and 20 Trillion in national debt.  (Obama took office when it was 10 Trillion) when interest rates rise to say about 5%, that's a total of 1Trillion dollars we have to pay on just the interest of the debt per year. we currently pay about 300 billion with interest rates next to zero, we take in just over 2 trillion in revenue. my question is, what will happen then when we take in only 2 trillion and have pay to the interest on the debt 1 trillion?



most of that debt is from the decline in revenue from 2008.  I bet you can't name one major spending bill besides the 2009 ARRA that has directly increased the deficit.

Regardless the Feds discount window will remain open for years.  As I have stated time and time again.  The US is modeling the recovery of Japan's housing bubble burst which occurred in 1992.  The central bank there is still lending at less than 1% and it's been over 2 decades now.


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## Jeeper (Dec 29, 2013)

Most people are totally reliant on Social Security for their retirement, as few companies offer pensions.  A pension is a main reason to work for the government.  I talk to client and they believe they are completely set for retirement with 2-300K.  That gets you nowhere unless you have paid off house, and live very simply.


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## LAM (Dec 29, 2013)

Jeeper said:


> Most people are totally reliant on Social Security for their retirement, as few companies offer pensions.



Which means the majority of the people are totally screwed.  Social Security was only meant to provide a portion of the retirement income.  Basically for the majority of the population there will be no retirement, most people will be forced to work until they drop or can no longer find employment and fall into poverty.  It's going to be the 1920's all over again in coming decades for the elderly.


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## Jeeper (Jan 1, 2014)

LAM said:


> Which means the majority of the people are totally screwed.  Social Security was only meant to provide a portion of the retirement income.  Basically for the majority of the population there will be no retirement, most people will be forced to work until they drop or can no longer find employment and fall into poverty.  It's going to be the 1920's all over again in coming decades for the elderly.



Yep, especially as they are going to have to continue to raise the retirement age with the financial issues funding SS in the first place.  I am strongly contemplating funding my own pension instead of other retirement vehicles.  The worry is a default by the financial institution 20 years from now when I need it.


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## Swiper (Jan 1, 2014)

LAM said:


> most of that debt is from the decline in revenue from 2008.  I bet you can't name one major spending bill besides the 2009 ARRA that has directly increased the deficit.
> .



more like name one spending bill Obama hasn't signed into law. it all adds to the debt. let me remind you his budget plan never balances the budget.  

so under the next presidents terms when the national debt doubles from 20 Trillion to 40 Trillion what will you say then?


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## ldzp (Jan 1, 2014)

CEO'in 10k/day


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## LAM (Jan 2, 2014)

Swiper said:


> more like name one spending bill Obama hasn't signed into law. it all adds to the debt. let me remind you his budget plan never balances the budget.
> 
> so under the next presidents terms when the national debt doubles from 20 Trillion to 40 Trillion what will you say then?



LOL...if the government was spending as much as the radicals claim economic growth would be expanding not contracting!

apparently you've forgotten who's in control of the House and who has shot down EVERY single piece of legislation out of the left since 2010.  so this crazy spending is happening how exactly, magic?


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