# American children at their finest.  What a shame.



## exphys88 (Jun 21, 2012)

http://youtu.be/l93wAqnPQwk


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## IronAddict (Jun 21, 2012)

Phuquin little twerps!

Yeah, pick on an old lady and make her cry, that's someones mother, grandmother. I hope you feel like you accomplished something. Too bad you don't put all that effort into your school work. 

Maybe I'm going through menopause or something, but I just wanted to hug & comfort grammy.


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## Curt James (Jun 21, 2012)

Making The Bus Monitor Cry - YouTube

If identified, those children should be banned from the bus for a significant period of time and also be required to do some form of community service.

Harassment is illegal, isn't it?


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## DOMS (Jun 21, 2012)

I think I just found the thing that would make me cross the line on beating a minor.


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## exphys88 (Jun 21, 2012)

they have the kids' names listed and a fund started to help her go on vacation.


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## Standard Donkey (Jun 21, 2012)

School bus monitor doesn't want 'really nasty' kids charged - TODAY News - TODAY.com
an-be-really-nasty/#.T-M9AhdGnF9


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## IronAddict (Jun 21, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> they have the kids' names listed and a fund started to help her go on vacation.



I hear that fund was up to 6 figures. 

Kids nowadays?!


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## dirtbiker666 (Jun 21, 2012)

Yea if it's real then it's fucked up. But I do not believe half the shit I watch on there anymore. It seems like people will do anything to make a few bucks.


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## HialeahChico305 (Jun 21, 2012)

Less parents at home because of the rescission and more teen kids getting pregnant is a mayor part of whats wrong with our youth. This is truly sad to see and beating on the kids wont solve anything, we need to fix the problem from the root which is the adults.


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## exphys88 (Jun 21, 2012)

Less morals, less emphasis on respecting elders, less emphasis on kindness in our society.


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## HialeahChico305 (Jun 21, 2012)

Fucking kids don't respect our elders because all their thought by the media and our western culture in general is to appreciate what they see, on the physical. They don"t realize a older person is like a book , full of experiences and stories that will help you avoid making mistakes in life.


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## DOMS (Jun 21, 2012)

Not to be outdone...African kids at their finest:


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## HialeahChico305 (Jun 21, 2012)

DOMS said:


> Not to be outdone...African kids at their finest:



Whats your point?


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## DOMS (Jun 21, 2012)

HialeahChico305 said:


> Whats your point?



American kids need to step up their game.


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## BP2000 (Jun 21, 2012)

HeavyIron for bus monitor


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## HialeahChico305 (Jun 21, 2012)

DOMS said:


> I think I just found the thing that would make me cross the line on beating a minor.



Wouldn't solve a damn thing.


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## NVRBDR (Jun 21, 2012)

wow. just wow. When I was a kid, that kind of behavior didn't fly, first off, that's a grandma! second, you knew you'd get your ass kicked when your dad found out, but mostly, you just knew better than to be that much of an idiot! wow.


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## Little Wing (Jun 21, 2012)

i think there are times when certain kids would benefit from a trip to the wood shed. this is most certainly one of them. i do think both parents in the work force and teen pregnancy contribute to this sort of thing but when it was common to see an ass whoopin dealt out for shit like this you did not see shit like this. MOST kids that got spanked, not abused but spanked for horrid behavior, turned out just fine. i don't think you should spank for every little thing but these kids need it and needed it a long time ago. no they aren't acting out what they see at home they are showing they have no limits at home.


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## exphys88 (Jun 21, 2012)

Actually the research is very clear that corporal punishment does more damage than good.  It's associated w increased aggression, behavior problems and drug abuse.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/02/120206122447.htm


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## NVRBDR (Jun 21, 2012)

lol, New research shows that believing every and all research will cause you to research everything before you can make a decision without research...


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## Little Wing (Jun 21, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> Actually the research is very clear that corporal punishment does more damage than good.  It's associated w increased aggression, behavior problems and drug abuse.
> 
> Physical punishment of children potentially harmful to their long-term development



i grew up in the heyday of spanking. me and most everyone i know would have got our asses beat for that and we are just fine. we are good citizens and good parents that never would have dreamed of behaving so badly. the kids i knew that would do that grew up basically unsupervised. either latchkey kids or with druggie n drunk parents who let their kids run wild and didn't care enough to discipline them.

most "research" is done already knowing the report they intend to write after, therefore it is biased bullcrap. life will teach you more than any "research" will.


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## jitbjake88 (Jun 21, 2012)

IronAddict said:


> I hear that fund was up to 6 figures.
> 
> Kids nowadays?!



$251,081.. harass me.. ill gladly accept that kind of money.


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## heavyiron (Jun 21, 2012)

Beatings would be in order at my house.


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## BP2000 (Jun 21, 2012)

Her fund is now at 350,000$!!  and 1 month to go


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## DOMS (Jun 21, 2012)

Americans at their finest:

“I am amazed,’’ she said. “I've gotten the nicest letters, emails,  Facebook messages. It's like, wow, there's a whole world out there that I  didn't know. It's just really awesome.’’

And:

An online fund-raising drive to give a vacation is underway. By Thursday  afternoon, the contributions had reached $300,000 for Klein, who earns  $15,506 a year at her job.


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## SloppyJ (Jun 21, 2012)

HialeahChico305 said:


> They don"t realize a older person is like a book , full of experiences and stories that will help you avoid making mistakes in life.



This^^

I'm guessing part of the problem is that these kids are yankees. 

But seriously, why didn't the other kids step in and do something? There were always older kids on the bus, these couldn't have been the oldest. Someone on there had to know this was wrong.


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## exphys88 (Jun 21, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> Beatings would be in order at my house.



Me too


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## exphys88 (Jun 21, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> i grew up in the heyday of spanking. me and most everyone i know would have got our asses beat for that and we are just fine. we are good citizens and good parents that never would have dreamed of behaving so badly. the kids i knew that would do that grew up basically unsupervised. either latchkey kids or with druggie n drunk parents who let their kids run wild and didn't care enough to discipline them.
> 
> most "research" is done already knowing the report they intend to write after, therefore it is biased bullcrap. life will teach you more than any "research" will.



I'm sorry that you believe testimony over science.
I know plenty of kids that we're never spanked and are good kids, and plenty if kids that got spanked and are rotten, but that doesn't prove anything.  20 years of research is probably a better indicator of reality.
Saying that most research is already determined is a bold statement, care to back it up w facts?

Btw, I actually spank my kids, I'm just pointing out that the research doesn't support the use of it.


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## Zaphod (Jun 21, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> Less morals, less emphasis on respecting elders, less emphasis on kindness in our society.



That's what "they" want.  To tear society apart so it's easier to manage.


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## Zaphod (Jun 21, 2012)

SloppyJ said:


> This^^
> 
> I'm guessing part of the problem is that these kids are yankees.
> 
> But seriously, why didn't the other kids step in and do something? There were always older kids on the bus, these couldn't have been the oldest. Someone on there had to know this was wrong.



I'm sure there were kids that knew it was wrong.  They were probably too afraid of being the next target.


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## LAM (Jun 21, 2012)

DOMS said:


> I think I just found the thing that would make me cross the line on beating a minor.



Chris Rock did a bit about fighting a kid...I've always been a firm believer in that "nobody is above the beat-down".  there is always a line and when that line is crossed, it's knuckle sandwich time.

I only watched a couple of minutes, never heard such disrespect of ones elder before like that.


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## Dale Mabry (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> Americans at their finest:
> 
> ?I am amazed,?? she said. ?I've gotten the nicest letters, emails,  Facebook messages. It's like, wow, there's a whole world out there that I  didn't know. It's just really awesome.??
> 
> ...



Oddly enough, the fund was set up by a Canadian.


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## maniclion (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> Americans at their finest:
> 
> “I am amazed,’’ she said. “I've gotten the nicest letters, emails,  Facebook messages. It's like, wow, there's a whole world out there that I  didn't know. It's just really awesome.’’
> 
> ...


That's what I'm saying.  We showed how well we can band together to help out those who have been wronged.  Hopefully those kids will get the message that being a good person in this world is more valuable than being little pricks.


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## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

Dale Mabry said:


> Oddly enough, the fund was set up by a Canadian.



Canada is the 51st state, anyway. 

But all the love and money she's getting is American.


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## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

LAM said:


> Chris Rock did a bit about fighting a kid...I've always been a firm believer in that "nobody is above the beat-down".  there is always a line and when that line is crossed, it's knuckle sandwich time.
> 
> I only watched a couple of minutes, never heard such disrespect of ones elder before like that.



Yeah, I couldn't watch the whole thing, either.

"Nobody is above the beat-down" reminded me of this:

Bill Burr - Women Are Assholes - YouTube


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## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

maniclion said:


> That's what I'm saying.  We showed how well we can band together to help out those who have been wronged.  Hopefully those kids will get the message that being a good person in this world is more valuable than being little pricks.



I'm a firm believer that Americans are at their best when things are at the their worst.


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## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

Spare the rod, spoil the child:

I lived in this town when this happened.  The author of this book should be shot.  

Christian Parents Biblically Beat Child to Death for Mispronouncing Word | Secular News Daily


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## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> Spare the rod, spoil the child:
> 
> I lived in this town when this happened.  The author of this book should be shot.
> 
> Christian Parents Biblically Beat Child to Death for Mispronouncing Word | Secular News Daily



You may not be aware of this, but there is a bit of a range between not-spanking your child and beating them to death.


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## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> You may not be aware of this, but there is a bit of a range between not-spanking your child and beating them to death.



I agree, the problem is that this guys has sold shitloads of his books, and his practices are being used by way too many christian fundies.  search Michael Pearl biblical chastisement.  He actually recommends hitting infants with rods until they stop crying.  This is the problem with different interpretations of the bible, he fully believes he is doing what god wants him to.  Specifically hitting kids with rods.

I'm a little bit crazy about this story because I worked at the hospital that they brought the girl in when she died and was there when it happened.


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## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> I agree, the problem is that this guys has sold shitloads of his books, and his practices are being used by way too many christian fundies.  search Michael Pearl biblical chastisement.  *He actually recommends hitting infants with rods until they stop crying. * This is the problem with different interpretations of the bible, he fully believes he is doing what god wants him to.  Specifically hitting kids with rods.
> 
> I'm a little bit crazy about this story because I worked at the hospital that they brought the girl in when she died and was there when it happened.



What a coincidence, I recommending hitting him with a metal rod until he stops crying.


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## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> What a coincidence, I recommending hitting him with a metal rod until he stops crying.



lol


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## charley (Jun 22, 2012)

Seems to make child abuse more acceptable..........   [sad attempt at humor]


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## Curt James (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> they have the kids' names listed and a *fund *started to help her go on vacation.



When I saw last, the amount was $300,000.



HialeahChico305 said:


> Whats your point?



Perhaps that the bus monitor could have found herself in a bigger pickle. _That _child might shoot first and _name call_ later! 



HialeahChico305 said:


> Wouldn't solve a damn thing.



This.

When I was 12, I gave a fellow camper a bloody nose. He was a bully and it felt good to punch him in the face. But it didn't change his attitude. They cleaned him up and he was right back to his jerkazoid ways.



exphys88 said:


> Actually the research is very clear that corporal punishment does more damage than good.  It's associated w increased aggression, behavior problems and drug abuse.



Define corporal punishment (didn't follow the link, ). Because Mrs. Lawrence, my 4th grade teacher, kept my _undiagnosed but certainly ADHD self_ in line while I served my time in elementary school. Paddling definitely worked for her, at that time, and with yours truly and my classmates. 

Order, respect, and a fair amount of kid behavior but not left unchecked whatsoever.



jitbjake88 said:


> $251,081.. harass me.. ill gladly accept that kind of money.



I know, right? Hell, I'm sure I could even work up some tears if that's what it would take.

Karen, btw, has more Facebook friend applicants than the system can support. The maligned bus monitor is rich with sympathy and well wishers it seems. Good for her and shame on those children.



BP2000 said:


> Her fund is now at 350,000$!!  and 1 month to go



$477,935 a moment ago. Gadzooks! *Bullied Bus Monitor Fund Met With Support, Confusion - Forbes*



DOMS said:


> You may not be aware of this, but there is a bit of a range between not-spanking your child and beating them to death.



lulz


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## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

Corporal punishment is punishment of a physical nature.

We can all provide examples of kids that got spanked and ended up good adults, but it doesn't really prove anything because we can find at least as many kids that did get spanked and ended up terrible.

I'll take science over testimony any day. Maybe the science in this 20 years worth of research is flawed but history has shown that the scientific method is the optimal way to find truth, and therefore the most likely to represent reality.


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## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> I'll take science over testimony any day. Maybe the science in this 20 years worth of research is flawed but history has shown that the scientific method is the optimal way to find truth, and therefore the most likely to represent reality.



Considering how much science is agenda-driven and purchased these days, I don't quite have the faith in it that I used to.


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## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> Considering how much science is agenda-driven and purchased these days, I don't quite have the faith in it that I used to.



I completely understand.  Especially when it comes to pharmaceutical clinical trials, but I  have a hard time thinking of how someone would benefit by claiming that corporal punishment is ineffective and potentially detrimental to children.


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## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> I completely understand.  Especially when it comes to pharmaceutical clinical trials, but I  have a hard time thinking of how someone would benefit by claiming that corporal punishment is ineffective and potentially detrimental to children.



That would be the "agenda-driven" part of my statement.

One of my favorite fucking things when I was raising my children was how many people chimed in with how to raise a child - when they had none of their own. Oprah comes to mind.


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## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> That would be the "agenda-driven" part of my statement.



I got it.  Usually when there's an agenda, there is a reason for it, like a benefit to the person.  My personal experience has confirmed the claim that it's ineffective.  As a kid, I loved spankings over being grounded, the punishment was over in a couple minutes.  
And, for my own kids, spanking has NEVER fixed a problem.  I have 2 little ones and have had a hard time getting them to go to bed and not  play in their room, spanking only made the temper tantrums worse.  So, we were recommended giving them stickers on a sticker chart for good behavior and when it's full they get a surprise.  The problem was literally fixed in a week.


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## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> I got it.  Usually when there's an agenda, there is a reason for it, like a benefit to the person.



There are also agendas driven by a person's need to make reality fit their world-view.


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## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> One of my favorite fucking things when I was raising my children was how many people chimed in with how to raise a child - when they had none of their own. Oprah comes to mind.



I think it's one of the most disrespectful things to tell someone how to raise their kids, unless they're abusive, then I just want to punch their teeth in.


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## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> There are also agendas driven by a person's need to make reality fit their world-view.



Yes, like the vaccination-autism link.


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## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> I think it's one of the most disrespectful things to tell someone how to raise their kids, unless they're abusive, then I just want to punch their teeth in.



A few childless people did try to tell me how to raise my kids, but I'm mostly referring to talking heads and book writers.


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## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> Yes, like the vaccination-autism link.



Oh, hell yes. To that I'll add anthropomorphic global warming.


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## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> A few childless people did try to tell me how to raise my kids, but I'm mostly referring to talking heads and book writers.



ahh, like Ann Coulter?  lol


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## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> Oh, hell yes. To that I'll add anthropomorphic global warming.



I  had a feeling you were going to bring that up.  Unfortunately, you won't get a debate out of me about that , I know nothing about meteorology.  But, I will say that I think it has unfortunately moved from a scientific debate to a political debate with people lining up on their party's side and even though they are completely ignorant to the science behind it, they will argue for hours about it.


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## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> ahh, like Ann Coulter?  lol



All of them.


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## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> I  had a feeling you were going to bring that up.  Unfortunately, you won't get a debate out of me about that , I know nothing about meteorology.  But, I will say that I think it has unfortunately moved from a scientific debate to a political debate with people lining up on their party's side and even though they are completely ignorant to the science behind it, they will argue for hours about it.



You don't have to be  a meteorologist, you just need to look at the basic facts.


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## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> You don't have to be  a meteorologist, you just need to look at the basic facts.



that I haven't done, so I avoid those conversations.  I'm too busy making fun of creationists.


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## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> that I haven't done, so I avoid those conversations.  I'm too busy making fun of creationists.



Fair enough, I like making fun of AGW people.


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## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> Fair enough, I like making fun of AGW people.



why not creationists?  Isn't creationism much more ridiculous that global warming?  I could use your wit in my discussions.


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## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> why not creationists?  Isn't creationism much more ridiculous that global warming?  I could use your wit in my discussions.



I like Christians and most of what they do. AWG does jack shit but line the pockets of wealthy people.


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## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> I like Christians and most of what they do. AWG does jack shit but line the pockets of wealthy people.



gotcha, I like a lot of christians too.  For whatever reason creationists really irk me, especially their current push to force it into science class and force evolution out.


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## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> gotcha, I like a lot of christians too.  For whatever reason creationists really irk me, especially their current push to force it into science class and force evolution out.



It's only a few morons that want to do that. The vast majority don't want that. Many don't want any religion to be taught in school.

I also need to point out that it only seems like there's a big push for it because of media sensationalism. I fucking hate the media.


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## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> It's only a few morons that want to do that. The vast majority don't want that. Many don't want any religion to be taught in school.
> 
> I also need to point out that it only seems like there's a big push for it because of media sensationalism. I fucking hate the media.



Well, they're effective.

More wiki info:

[h=2]Movements to teach creationism in schools[/h] There continue to be numerous efforts to introduce creationism in US  classrooms. One strategy is to declare that evolution is a religion, and  therefore it should not be taught in the classroom either, or that if  evolution is a religion, then surely creationism as well can be taught  in the classroom.[SUP][5][/SUP]
 In the 1980s Phillip E. Johnson began reading the scientific literature on evolution. This led to the writing of _Darwin on Trial,_  which examined the evidence for evolution from a religious point of  view and challenged the assumption that the only reasonable explanation  for the origin of species must be a naturalistic one, though science  is defined by searching for natural explanations for phenomena. This  book, and his subsequent efforts to encourage and coordinate  creationists with more credentials, was the start of the "Intelligent design"  movement. Intelligent design asserts that there is evidence that life  was created by an "intelligent designer" (mainly that the physical  properties of an object are so complex that they must have been  "designed"). Proponents claim that ID takes "all available facts" into  account rather than just those available through naturalism. Opponents  assert that ID is a pseudoscience because its claims cannot be tested by experiment (see falsifiability) and do not propose any new hypotheses.
 Many proponents of the ID movement support requiring that it be  taught in the public schools. For example, conservative think-tank,[SUP][6][/SUP] The Discovery Institute and Phillip E. Johnson, support the policy of "Teach the Controversy",  which entails presenting to students evidence for and against  evolution, and then encouraging students to evaluate that evidence  themselves.
 While many proponents of ID believe that it should be taught in  schools, other creationists believe that legislation is not appropriate.  Answers in Genesis has said:
"AiG is not a lobby group, and we oppose legislation for compulsion  of creation teaching ... why would we want an atheist forced to teach  creation and give a distorted view? But we would like legal protection  for teachers who present scientific arguments against the sacred cow of  evolution such as staged pictures of peppered moths and forged embryo  diagrams ..."[SUP][7][/SUP]​ Opponents point out that there is no _scientific_ controversy,  but only a political and religious one, therefore "teaching the  controversy" would only be appropriate in a social studies, religion, or  philosophy class. Many, such as Richard Dawkins, compare teaching intelligent design in schools to teaching flat earthism, since the scientific consensus regarding these issues is identical. Dawkins has stated that teaching creationism to children is akin to child abuse.[SUP][8][/SUP]


 [h=2]Recent developments in state education programs[/h] See also: Academic Freedom bills
 [h=3]Development by state[/h] [h=4]Alabama[/h] In 1996, the Alabama State Board of Education adopted a textbook sticker that was a disclaimer about evolution. It has since been revised and moderated.[SUP][9][/SUP][SUP][_dead link_][/SUP]
 [h=4]California[/h] In August 2008 Judge Otero ruled in favor of University of California in _Association of Christian Schools International v. Roman Stearns_ agreeing with the university's position that various religious books on U.S. history and science, from A Beka Books and Bob Jones University Press, should not be used for a college-preparatory classes.[SUP][10][/SUP] The case was filed in spring 2006 by Association of Christian Schools International against the University of California claiming religious discrimination over the rejection of five courses as college preparatory instruction.[SUP][11][/SUP]  On August 8, 2008, Judge Otero entered summary judgment against  plaintiff ACSI, upholding the University of California's standards.[SUP][10][/SUP]  The university found the books "didn't encourage critical thinking  skills and failed to cover 'major topics, themes and components'" and  were thus, ill-suited to prepare students for college.[SUP][10][/SUP]
 [h=4]Florida[/h] On February 19, 2008, the Florida  State Board of Education adopted new science standards in a 4-3 vote.  The new science curriculum standards explicitly require the teaching of  the "scientific theory of evolution",[SUP][12][/SUP] whereas the previous standards only referenced evolution using the words "change over time."[SUP][13][/SUP]
 [h=4]Georgia[/h] In 2002, six parents in Cobb County, Georgia in the case _Selman v. Cobb County School District_  sued to have the following sticker removed from public school  textbooks: "This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a  theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This  material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and  critically considered." _Selman v. Cobb County School District_,  No. 1:02CV2325 (N.D. Ga. filed August 21, 2002). Defense attorney Gunn  said, "The only thing the school board did is acknowledge there is a  potential conflict [between evolution and creationism] and there is a  potential infringement on people's beliefs if you present it in a  dogmatic way. We're going to do it in a respectful way." Gerald R.  Weber, legal director of the ACLU  of Georgia, said "The progress of church-state cases has been that the  [U.S.] Supreme Court sets a line, then government entities do what they  can to skirt that line. […] Here the Supreme Court has said you can't  teach creationism in the public schools. You can't have an equal-time  provision for evolution and creationism. These disclaimers are a new  effort to skirt the line." Jefferey Selman, who brought the lawsuit,  claims "It singles out evolution from all the scientific theories out  there. Why single out evolution? It has to be coming from a religious  basis, and that violates the separation of church and state." The School  Board said it adopted the sticker "to foster critical thinking among  students, to allow academic freedom consistent with legal requirements,  to promote tolerance and acceptance of diversity of opinion and to  ensure a posture of neutrality toward religion."
 On January 14, 2005, a federal judge in Atlanta ruled that the stickers should be removed as they violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.[SUP][14][/SUP] The school board subsequently decided to appeal the decision.[SUP][15][/SUP][SUP][16][/SUP]  In comments on December 15, 2005 in advance of releasing its decision,  the appeal court panel appeared critical of the lower court ruling and a  judge indicated that he did not understand the difference between  evolution and abiogenesis.[SUP][17][/SUP]
 On December 20, 2006, the Cobb County Board of Education abandoned  all of its legal activities and will no longer mandate that biology  texts contain a sticker stating "evolution is a theory, not a fact."  Their decision was a result of compromise negotiated with a group of  parents, represented by the ACLU,  that were opposed to the sticker. The parents agreed, as their part of  the compromise, to withdraw their legal actions against the board.[SUP][18][/SUP]
 [h=4]Kansas[/h] On August 11, 1999, by a 6–4 vote the Kansas State Board of Education changed their science education  standards to remove any mention of "biological macroevolution, the age  of the Earth, or the origin and early development of the Universe", so  that evolutionary theory no longer appeared in state-wide standardized  tests and "it was left to the 305 local school districts in Kansas  whether or not to teach it."[SUP][19][/SUP]  This decision was hailed by creationists, and sparked a statewide and  nationwide controversy with scientists condemning the change.[SUP][20][/SUP]  Challengers in the state's Republican primary who made opposition to  the anti-evolution standards their focus were voted in on August 1,  2000, so on February 14, 2001, the Board voted 7–3 to reinstate the  teaching of biological evolution and the origin of the earth into the  state's science education standards.[SUP][19][/SUP]
 In 2004 Kansas Board of Education elections gave religious conservatives a majority and, influenced by the Discovery Institute, they arranged the Kansas evolution hearings.  On August 9, 2005, the Kansas State Board of Education drafted new  "science standards that require critical analysis of evolution –  including scientific evidence refuting the theory,"[SUP][21][/SUP] which opponents analyzed as effectively stating that intelligent design should be taught.[SUP][22][/SUP]  The new standards also provide a definition of science that does not  preclude supernatural explanations, and were approved by a 6–4 vote on  November 8, 2005—incidentally the day of the Dover school board election  which failed to re-elect incumbent creationists (see #Pennsylvania).
 In Kansas' state Republican primary elections on August 1, 2006,  moderate Republicans took control away from the anti-evolution  conservatives,[SUP][23][/SUP]  leading to an expectation that science standards which effectively  embraced intelligent design and cast doubt on Darwinian evolution would  now be changed.[SUP][24][/SUP]
 On February 13, 2007, the Kansas State Board of Education approved a  new curriculum which removed any reference to Intelligent Design as part  of science. In the words of Dr Bill Wagnon, the board chairman, "Today  the Kansas Board of Education returned its curriculum standards to  mainstream science". The new curriculum, as well as a document outlining  the differences with the previous curriculum, has been posted on the  Kansas State Department of Education's website.[SUP][25][/SUP]
 [h=4]Kentucky[/h] In October 1999, the Kentucky Department of Education replaced the word "evolution" with "change over time" in state school standards.[SUP][26][/SUP]
 [h=4]Louisiana[/h] On 12 June 2008, bill (SB561) or the "Louisiana Academic Freedom Act" passed into law.
 Further information: Louisiana Academic Freedom Act
 [h=4]Ohio[/h] In 2002, proponents of intelligent design asked the Ohio Board of Education to adopt intelligent design as part of its standard biology curriculum, in line with the guidelines of the _Edwards v. Aguillard_  holding. In December 2002, the Board adopted a proposal that required  critical analysis of evolution, but did not specifically mention  intelligent design. This decision was reversed in February 2006  following both the conclusion of the Dover lawsuit and repeated threats  of lawsuit against the Ohio Board.[SUP][27][/SUP][SUP][28][/SUP]
 [h=4]Pennsylvania[/h] Main article: Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District
 In 2004 the Dover, Pennsylvania  School Board voted that a statement must be read to students of 9th  grade biology mentioning Intelligent Design. This resulted in a  firestorm of criticism from scientists and science teachers and caused a  group of parents to begin legal proceedings (sometimes referred to as  the Dover panda trial) to challenge the decision, based on their interpretation of the Aguillard  precedent. Supporters of the school board's position noted that the  Aguillard holding explicitly allowed for a variety of what they consider  "scientific theories" of origins for the secular purpose of improving  scientific education. Others have argued that Intelligent Design should  not be allowed to use this "loophole."[SUP][29][/SUP]  On November 8, 2005, the members of the school board in Dover were  voted out and replaced by evolutionary theory supporters. This had no  bearing on the case.[SUP][30][/SUP] On December 20, 2005 federal judge John E. Jones III ruled that  the Dover School Board had violated the Constitution when they set  their policy on teaching intelligent design, and stated that "In making  this determination, we have addressed the seminal question of whether ID  is science. We have concluded that it is not, and moreover that ID  cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious,  antecedents."
 [h=4]Tennessee[/h] In April 11, 2012, a bill passed in state protecting "teachers who  explore the 'scientific strengths and scientific weaknesses' of  evolution and climate change." Science education advocates said the law  could make it easier for creationism  and global warming denial to enter U.S. classrooms. Brenda Ekwurzel of  the Union of Concerned Scientists saw it as a risk to education, quoting  "We need to keep kids' curiosity about science alive and not limit  their ability to understand the world around them by exposing them to  misinformation." [SUP][31][/SUP] The passing of the law was praised by proponents of intelligent design.[SUP][31][/SUP]
 [h=4]Texas[/h] On November 7, 2007 the Texas Education Agency director of science curriculum Christine Comer  was forced to resign over an e-mail she had sent announcing a talk  given by an anti-Intelligent Design author. In a memo obtained under the  Texas Freedom of Information act, TEA officials wrote "Ms. Comer's  e-mail implies endorsement of the speaker and implies that TEA endorses  the speaker's position on a subject on which the agency must remain  neutral".[SUP][32][/SUP]  In response over 100 biology professors from Texas universities signed a  letter to the state education commissioner denouncing the requirement  to be neutral on the subject of Intelligent Design.[SUP][33][/SUP]
 In July 2011, the Texas Board of Education, which oversees the Texas  Education Agency, did not approve anti-evolution instructional materials  submitted by International Databases, LLC, while continuing to approve  materials from mainstream publishers.[SUP][34][/SUP]
 [h=4]Virginia[/h] Despite proponents' urging that intelligent design be included in the school system's science curriculum, the school board of Chesterfield County Public Schools in Virginia  decided on May 23, 2007, to approve science textbooks for middle and  high schools which do not include the idea of intelligent design.  However, during the board meeting a statement was made that their aim  was self-directed learning which "occurs only when alternative views are  explored and discussed", and directed that professionals supporting  curriculum development and implementation are to be required "to  investigate and develop processes that encompass a comprehensive  approach to the teaching and learning" of the theory of evolution,  "along with all other topics that raise differences of thought and  opinion." During the week before the meeting, one of the intelligent  design proponents claimed that "Students are being excluded from  scientific debate. It's time to bring this debate into the classroom",  and presented "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism".[SUP][35][/SUP][SUP][36][/SUP]


----------



## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> *Alabama*
> 
> In 1996, the Alabama State Board of Education adopted a textbook sticker that was a disclaimer about evolution. It has since been revised and moderated.[SUP][9][/SUP][SUP][_dead link_][/SUP]



Revised and moderated?



exphys88 said:


> *California*
> 
> In August 2008 Judge Otero ruled in favor of University of California in _Association of Christian Schools International v. Roman Stearns_ agreeing with the university's position that various religious books on U.S. history and science, from A Beka Books and Bob Jones University Press, should not be used for a college-preparatory classes.[SUP][10][/SUP] The case was filed in spring 2006 by Association of Christian Schools International against the University of California claiming religious discrimination over the rejection of five courses as college preparatory instruction.[SUP][11][/SUP]  On August 8, 2008, Judge Otero entered summary judgment against  plaintiff ACSI, upholding the University of California's standards.[SUP][10][/SUP]  The university found the books "didn't encourage critical thinking  skills and failed to cover 'major topics, themes and components'" and  were thus, ill-suited to prepare students for college.[SUP][10][/SUP]



I don't even think you're reading this stuff. This one shows that the creationist teaching was smacked down. 

I was going to read through the othesr, but now...not so much.


----------



## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> Revised and moderated?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, of course it's smacked down, it's absurd.  I never claimed they were successful.  The point is that they are doing this in tons of states and I wouldn't be surprised if they succeeded in southern states.


----------



## Little Wing (Jun 22, 2012)

This just in... Earlier this week, a new _Current Biology_ paper proposed that the accumulated output of dinosaur farts could have changed the global climate.



kinsey's research seems to say kids are sexually able to achieve orgasm from a very young age so being sexual at a very young age is part of nature's plan or some shit. throw a wad of cash at a research facility and they will come up with research that says your drug is safe to market then people will sue you when it starts killing people. too much agenda in research MOST of the time. and of course there's incentive to find research to support spanking being bad... ego is a hell of an incentive to find research that proves your _opinion_ right. 

common sense says less people spank now than ever before and more kids are completely out of control. there's a ton of other factors but trusting my own experience and instincts i'm gonna surmise the two are related. proper spanking is not abuse but i don't think something like not being sleepy enough for bed warrants it. i think spanking can be a useful tool if reserved for showing a child when they have absolutely crossed the line of what is and is not acceptable.


----------



## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> Well, of course it's smacked down, it's absurd.  I never claimed they were successful.  The point is that they are doing this in tons of states and I wouldn't be surprised if they succeeded in southern states.



You said they're were being effective, but your posted information doesn't show that.


----------



## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> This just in... Earlier this week, a new _Current Biology_ paper proposed that the accumulated output of dinosaur farts could have changed the global climate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't disagree with most of what you have here, and I'm not taking a side on the research or not, I'm just sharing what the research suggests.  And, just so you don't think I abuse my kids, I should clarify.  My oldest girl throws major tantrums at bed time, to the point of destroying her entire room, kicking and screaming when we try to put her into bed and banging on the door and walls when we leave.     It only made it worse to spank her.

I would disagree on your claim that most research is flawed.  We would not be where we are at in terms of medicine if this were true.  Heart surgeries, cardiac rehab, nutrition, autism research, cancer treatment, CPR, and post stroke care are all improving because of scientific studies.  If the results of MOST studies were faked, we would be going backwards in science, but in fact, we are progressing at an incredible rate.


----------



## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> You said they're were being effective, but your posted information doesn't show that.



yeah, I chose the wrong word and noticed that when I responded.  It should be persistent, and I should have made the point about how much time and money is wasted on all of these expensive,pointless cases.  Until the separation of church and state is changed, they will always lose, but will create doubt in people about how we really came to be.


----------



## Getbig2 (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> Less morals, less emphasis on respecting elders, less emphasis on kindness in our society.



I agree bro! If that was my son or little brother I would beat the s$#t out of him! What the hell, those kids need discipline! Not damn therapy sit down talk, or grounding! Spank that ass! Hell im glad my parents spanked the hell outta me with anything they could find! Shit it wasnt abuse, it was correction and im glad. And ill do the same to my kids, respect your elders and others, if you cant understand that with words and ill spank that ass! Simple


----------



## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> This just in... Earlier this week, a new _Current Biology_ paper proposed that the accumulated output of dinosaur farts could have changed the global climate.



I read that. It's bullshit. The paper overestimates the number of dinosaurs by a huge factor. The "scientist" is just a douche that's trying to create a connections between cow farts and global warming by using dinosaurs.

Science, my ass.


----------



## Getbig2 (Jun 22, 2012)

Jimmyusa said:


> lol, New research shows that believing every and all research will cause you to research everything before you can make a decision without research...




lmao! Im really glad my parents spanked me, I turned out just fine and thank them for showing me respect!


----------



## Little Wing (Jun 22, 2012)

@ DOMS
it's the funniest science i've read in a while though. i thought someone was pulling my finger.


----------



## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> Science, my ass.



I see what you did there.


----------



## NVRBDR (Jun 22, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> This just in... Earlier this week, a new _Current Biology_ paper proposed that the accumulated output of dinosaur farts could have changed the global climate.
> That's funny.
> 
> 
> ...



So true, less people spank and most kids are out of control. My kids are very well behaved and have not had spankings in a long time, I believe this is PARTLY due to the fact, they understand the boundaries I've set for them, and sometimes that required "an ass whooping" for them to fully appreciate "I am not talking, simply to hear my self talk" lol.


----------



## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> @ DOMS
> it's the funniest science i've read in a while though. i thought someone was pulling my finger.





exphys88 said:


> I see what you did there.









And critical thinking.


----------



## NVRBDR (Jun 22, 2012)

I honestly don't know if this is accurate info, either way I take it as serious as I take GW.

According to the _Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations_ (FAO) *agriculture is responsible for 18% of the total release of greenhouse gases world-wide* (this is more than the whole transportation sector). Cattle-breeding is taking a major factor for these greenhouse gas emissions according to FAO. Says Henning Steinfeld, Chief of FAO's Livestock Information and Policy Branch and senior author of the report: "Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today's most serious environmental problems. Urgent action is required to remedy the situation."


----------



## Little Wing (Jun 22, 2012)

by "urgent action" i'm gonna assume they mean fire up the grill


----------



## NVRBDR (Jun 22, 2012)

Little Wing said:


> by "urgent action" i'm gonna assume they mean fire up the grill



 As soon as they're done researching whether or not there is credible research on "firing up the grill" as being an "urgent action"


----------



## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

Jimmyusa said:


> As soon as they're done researching whether or not there is credible research on "firing up the grill" as being an "urgent action"



what are you going to do when you get really sick and the docs are trying to determine the best course of action based on clinical RESEARCH?  Oh yeah,  you'll probably refuse all medical treatment that is based on research and pray yourself back to good health.  Good luck with that.


----------



## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

Jimmyusa said:


> So true, less people spank and most kids are out of control.



Have you ever heard the expression: correlation does not equal causation.  There are MANY things that have changed in the last 50 years that could contribute to the way kids are today.  You know the only way to determine what the exact cause is?  SCIENCE!


----------



## NVRBDR (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> Have you ever heard the expression: correlation does not equal causation.  There are MANY things that have changed in the last 50 years that could contribute to the way kids are today.  You know the only way to determine what the exact cause is?  SCIENCE!




I disagree, I could argue, Over the last 50+ years, God, Jesus and the bible have been demonized to a point of removal from just about every public place in America. They used to pray in public schools not that long ago, I believe it was back in the 60's is when it was removed, about 50+ years ago. Today Most people will not even mention Jesus, God or the bible in fear of not being politically correct, offending someone or just being labeled a "flaky weird christian" by society. Except of course inside a private home or church, excluding California, where some have been taken to court for holding bible studies in their home and we see how wonderful CA is to live these days.

Another point, look at our society 50+ years later, todays kids are hopeless( recent thread you made with you tube video) case and point. Most parents are hopeless, most people still HOPE government is going to bail them out, society by far is struck with fear over just about anything, good grief bro, everytime you put the TV on, there's a new drug backed up by science research for any possible, ridiculous symptom or reason they can dream up. Unfortunately, it is usually followed by a commercial revealing that "....drug" isn't safe and can cause death, but hey, no problem, you can sue the drug company that sold it to you in the first place, followed by the lawyers commercial next.

Don't misunderstand me, I think medical research is great, saving lives is awesome via medical miracles, which is gained from wisdom given by our Creator, not just research alone. I think things are way out of balance these days, and I can argue this point. 50+ years ago People in America used to stand up for the USA being a Christian nation, and were proud of it, now we have a president that says we were never a Christian nation even though we have a national day of prayer, and our laws are based on the ten commandments, many signers of the constitution were christian, our government was formed to be ran by a moral people, we have less God, Jesus and the bible today, we certainly have less morals as a whole in the USA(I suppose present company excluded). Over the centuries our Presidents have prayed publicly to The God of the bible time and time again, before wars, on Thanksgiving day, etc... our current POTUS bows to muslim princes and defiles this nation as a whole, imo.  Ironically, he claims to be a christian at the same friggin time. wtf?? that is detestable. Furthermore, ask yourself why would he claim that?? 

Again, I make the point, America has less God, less Jesus, less bible in our culture and simultaneously our culture has declined, I am sure you can find research on that somewhere. 
So I end with this, 50+ years ago, are we better off today? Maybe science isn't the answer?


----------



## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

Jimmyusa said:


> I disagree, I could argue, Over the last 50+ years, God, Jesus and the bible have been demonized to a point of removal from just about every public place in America. They used to pray in public schools not that long ago, I believe it was back in the 60's is when it was removed, about 50+ years ago. Today Most people will not even mention Jesus, God or the bible in fear of not being politically correct, offending someone or just being labeled a "flaky weird christian" by society. Except of course inside a private home or church, excluding California, where some have been taken to court for holding bible studies in their home and we see how wonderful CA is to live these days.
> 
> Another point, look at our society 50+ years later, todays kids are hopeless( recent thread you made with you tube video) case and point. Most parents are hopeless, most people still HOPE government is going to bail them out, society by far is struck with fear over just about anything, good grief bro, everytime you put the TV on, there's a new drug backed up by science research for any possible, ridiculous symptom or reason they can dream up. Unfortunately, it is usually followed by a commercial revealing that "....drug" isn't safe and can cause death, but hey, no problem, you can sue the drug company that sold it to you in the first place, followed by the lawyers commercial next.
> 
> ...



We were never intended to be a christian nation, many of the founding fathers were deists and specifically wanted to make sure that we remained a secular nation.  Have you ever read the writings of jefferson, franklin and hamilton?  You're specifically excluding great nations that are more happier, more moral and prosperous than most christian nations, all without jesus.  Japan is a great example. The fact that you need the fear of god to be a good person makes you less of a person than someone who does it just for the sake of being good.

 We have never learned anything about our planet from religion, it's all come from science.

My original point is that you are knocking research, but everything we know about the human body and the natural world has come from science and research.  Not faith.  

You still don't get that correlation does not equal causation.  Do you understand what this means?  Just because there are less religious folks, (which I'm not sure there are), and our morals have changed does not prove that less religion is the cause.  And, I find it hilarious that you think the country was so great back then.  You're ommitting the treatment of blacks, women, and japanese americans.  Sure it was a great time to be a white male, but I'm sure it was pretty shitty to be a black american.


----------



## Ezskanken (Jun 22, 2012)

I couldn't watch the video after seeing the elderly lady in the beginning.  I think I watched 3 seconds of it then closed it.


----------



## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> My original point is that you are knocking research, but everything we know about the human body and the natural world has come from science and research.  Not faith.



Contrary to popular belief, a lot of science has come from members of churches and even been funded by them.

Pssst. This is the part where you say they had some evil ulterior motive.


----------



## heavyiron (Jun 22, 2012)

I have faith I will be drinking beer in 3 minutes...


----------



## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> Contrary to popular belief, a lot of science has come from members of churches and even been funded by them.
> 
> Pssst. This is the part where you say they had some evil ulterior motive.



I know, the vatican is one of the more scientific groups out there.  I like to point out that the pope has declared evolution a fact to creationists.  The point is that they didn't use the bible or faith to discover these things, they used the scientific method.


----------



## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> I have faith I will be drinking beer in 3 minutes...



I have faith it will taste shitty if it's a budweiser.


----------



## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> I know, the vatican is one of the more scientific groups out there.  I like to point out that the pope has declared evolution a fact to creationists.  The point is that they didn't use the bible or faith to discover these things, they used the scientific method.



Yet they funded research on all sorts of stuff their religion doesn't agree with.


----------



## heavyiron (Jun 22, 2012)

Newcastle straight from the good lord....


----------



## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> Contrary to popular belief, a lot of science has come from members of churches and even been funded by them.
> 
> Pssst. This is the part where you say they had some evil ulterior motive.



Here is a great contribution to science from the templeton foundation (christian organization) on how ineffective prayer is.

Studies on intercessory prayer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the participants in the study that were prayed for actually fared worse than those that weren't prayed for.  What did the templeton foundation say after spending shitloads of money to prove that prayer works?  "you can't measure prayer with science."


----------



## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> Newcastle straight from the good lord....



Not bad, I won't be praying for you death now.


----------



## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> Yet they funded research on all sorts of stuff their religion doesn't agree with.



 what's your point?


----------



## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> what's your point?



That they're not the anti-scientists you seem to be alluding to.


----------



## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> That they're not the anti-scientists you seem to be alluding to.



creationists are very anti-science.  Just look at jimmy's and jagbender's posts.


----------



## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> creationists are very anti-science.  Just look at jimmy's and jagbender's posts.



All people that not religious are immoral.


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## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> All people that not religious are immoral.



Of course, and we're all gonna burn in hell for it.

I do find this post ironic, considering you are the king of stereotypes.


----------



## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> Of course, and we're all gonna burn in hell for it.
> 
> I do find this post ironic, considering you are the king of stereotypes.



Oh, you don't like it when some makes a false blanket statement about a group _you're in_? Got it.

A stereotype? Me?


----------



## LAM (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> There are MANY things that have changed in the last 50 years that could contribute to the way kids are today.  You know the only way to determine what the exact cause is?  SCIENCE!



the one thing we do know is that the human genome hasn't changed.  there has been a marked increase in the return to outdated beliefs such as social darwinism, individualism, etc. the past 3+ decades while totally discounting the effects of the invisible hand of capital and human nature.


----------



## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

DOMS said:


> Oh, you don't like it when some makes a false blanket statement about a group _you're in_? Got it.
> 
> A stereotype? Me?



No, I actually agree w most of your stereotypes, as I think there is truth in them.


----------



## DOMS (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> No, I actually agree w most of your stereotypes, as I think there is truth in them.



This statement requires clarification. "Your stereotypes"?


----------



## NVRBDR (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> We were never intended to be a christian nation, many of the founding fathers were deists and specifically wanted to make sure that we remained a secular nation.  Have you ever read the writings of jefferson, franklin and hamilton?  You're specifically excluding great nations that are more happier, more moral and prosperous than most christian nations, all without jesus.  Japan is a great example. The fact that you need the fear of god to be a good person makes you less of a person than someone who does it just for the sake of being good.
> 
> We have never learned anything about our planet from religion, it's all come from science.
> 
> ...



wow, did you even read my post? lol, you make up theories and draw conclusions about me, and in my estimation, mostly from things I don't even say, not very scientific of you. 

                                                                                                                    John Adams quotes

SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; JUDGE; DIPLOMAT; ONE OF TWO SIGNERS OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; SECOND PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES



The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.[SUP][SIZE=-2]1[/SIZE][/SUP]
The Holy Ghost carries on the whole Christian system in this earth. Not a baptism, not a marriage, not a sacrament can be administered but by the Holy Ghost. . . . There is no authority, civil or religious ? there can be no legitimate government but what is administered by this Holy Ghost. There can be no salvation without it. All without it is rebellion and perdition, or in more orthodox words damnation.[SUP][SIZE=-2]2[/SIZE][/SUP]
Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company: I mean hell.[SUP][SIZE=-2]3[/SIZE][/SUP]
The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity.[SUP][SIZE=-2]4[/SIZE][/SUP]
Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited. . . . What a Eutopia ? what a Paradise would this region be![SUP][SIZE=-2]5[/SIZE][/SUP]
I have examined all religions, and the result is that the Bible is the best book in the world.[SUP][SIZE=-2]6[/SIZE][/SUP]






_[SIZE=+1]Benjamin Franklin[/SIZE]_
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION; DIPLOMAT; PRINTER; SCIENTIST; SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; GOVERNOR OF PENNSYLVANIAAs to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see.

 The point was to show you there are other contributing facts that have added to the decline we see today, I did that, the fact you can't or just won't acknowledge it, doesn't change it.
as for the racism in america? it still sucks today.  thank God for MLK, he was a bold man, who also happened to be a christian, and a student of the bible.


----------



## exphys88 (Jun 22, 2012)

If Jesus is required for happiness, morals etc, how do you explain that 70% of the world is non Christian and many of them do very well?  Why are the Japanese such good people?

I'll restate my point that it's much more noble to be good on your own, than it is to do it for fear of god and to get into heaven.


----------



## NVRBDR (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> If Jesus is required for happiness, morals etc, how do you explain that 70% of the world is non Christian and many of them do very well?  Why are the Japanese such good people?
> 
> I'll restate my point that it's much more noble to be good on your own, than it is to do it for fear of god and to get into heaven.




exphyss, bro, please read my posts, then reply based on my real words, not ones you make up. Or maybe your replies are based on THEORY of what I might say. lol


----------



## NVRBDR (Jun 22, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> If Jesus is required for happiness, morals etc, how do you explain that 70% of the world is non Christian and many of them do very well?  Why are the Japanese such good people?
> 
> I'll restate my point that it's much more noble to be good on your own, than it is to do it for fear of god and to get into heaven.



the easy answer is, maybe only 30% make it then, what man knows this?

 Matthew 7:13-14 Enter by the narrow gate; for wide _is_ the gate and broad _is_ the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Because[SUP][a][/SUP] narrow _is_ the gate and difficult _is_ the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it

doing good? who does good? compared to what? the guy on the news killing for no reason? your neighbor blowing his cut grass in your lawn, while you use your lawnmower bag? 
Please tell me what is your definition of doing good???\

fearing God and doing good doesn't get you into heaven, seriously, did you learn that in youth camp bible school and your proclaimed tenure as a bible student?

eternal salvation is a gift of God, it is not earned by good deeds.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Jun 23, 2012)

DOMS said:


> Canada is the 51st state, anyway.
> 
> But all the love and money she's getting is American.



I used to like to refer to them as our little redheaded stepchild, but that was when I could go in to a McDonalds and buy a $5 value mel, give them an AMerican $20 bill, and get $32 in Canadian back.  Now I think the opposite is true, which is why they flood the northern states to come buy cigs.


----------



## exphys88 (Jun 23, 2012)

Jimmyusa said:


> eternal salvation is a gift of God, it is not earned by good deeds.



I'm perfectly happy to reject that gift.  Why would I want to spend eternity w a god who admittedly slaughtered women and children?  

I'm going to my gods' heaven w a beer volcano and a stripper factory.
My religion has gospels, heaven, hell and even miracles performed in his name.  I'm sorry you will not make it, but I can try to get you a day pass?


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## Curt James (Jun 23, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> *If Jesus is required for happiness, morals etc, how do you explain that 70% of the world is non Christian and many of them do very well? * Why are the Japanese such good people?
> 
> I'll restate my point that it's much more noble to be good on your own, than it is to do it for fear of god and to get into heaven.





_Dumb luck?_


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## Curt James (Jun 23, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> I'm perfectly happy to reject that gift.  *Why would I want to spend eternity w a god who admittedly slaughtered women and children? *
> 
> I'm going to my gods' heaven w a beer volcano and a stripper factory.
> My religion has gospels, heaven, hell and even miracles performed in his name.  I'm sorry you will not make it, but I can try to get you a day pass?



Becuz you wanna GET YO ALPHA MALE ON!1!






i keed, i keed!_ i jest, i joke!_


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## Curt James (Jun 23, 2012)

What's Hot: Bus Bullies - YouTube

Published on Jun 21, 2012 by todaystmj4
What's Hot team talks about the viral video that shows a bus aide in New York being tormented by students.


*And now for the ca$h update!*







Crazy.  

And for anyone worried about the bus monitor having to pay taxes...

There is no federal income tax due to Klein on these donations. They are gifts. There?s no consideration given in return, no services rendered, no products being touted. The IRS defines a gift as "any transfer to an individual, either directly or indirectly, where full consideration (measured in money or money?s worth) is not received in return" based on the gift tax provisions found in the Tax Code beginning at section 2501. In the business, we like to say that gifts are given not for anything in return but out of "love, affection, respect or admiration."

Even if there were tax due, gifts are subject to the federal gift tax rules, which means that the giver (not the recipient) is responsible for the gift tax. Generally, you can give up to $13,000 per person, per year, without being subject to federal gift tax. The recipient is never responsible for the gift tax, according to Kelly Phillips Erb, Forbes contributor.

Also, the children have reportedly received death threats and are in hiding. 

At least one of the teens has apologized.






More @ *Bullied Bus Monitor Attracts Over $500M in Internet Campaign - ABC News*


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## vortrit (Jun 24, 2012)

DOMS said:


> American kids need to step up their game.


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## vortrit (Jun 24, 2012)

Have some intelligence about you and look at the link under the video. This is obviously a scam to get you to donate money. Duh! I was even smart enough to figure that out.


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## Curt James (Jun 24, 2012)

vortrit said:


> Have some intelligence about you and look at the link under the video. *This is obviously a scam to get you to donate money. *Duh! I was even smart enough to figure that out.



 LAM, or anyone else, care to comment on that opinion?


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## heckler7 (Jun 24, 2012)

jitbjake88 said:


> $251,081.. harass me.. ill gladly accept that kind of money.


you wouldnt last 1 minute without slapping those punk minors


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## vortrit (Jun 24, 2012)

heckler7 said:


> you wouldnt last 1 minute without slapping those punk minors



I probably wouldn't either, but then again I substitute teach from time-to-time and some of the kids are pretty disrespectful. If you're going to work around kids you have to expect this type of thing to happen every once in a while, and you definitely can't have a thin skin. I think it's kind of funny she is the bus monitor (as I understand it) and it's her job to prevent this kind of thing from happening. Obviously (and I'm not sticking up for these kids one bit because they are obviously punks) she is not very good at her job.

I still find it ironic that the video the kids obviously made is posted with a link to donate money to her under it.


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## LAM (Jun 24, 2012)

Curt James said:


> LAM, or anyone else, care to comment on that opinion?



school bus monitor wouldn't be clever enough to intentionally scam the public, IMO...those kids wouldn't be laughing if they knew what their economic future is going to be...the jokes on them and they don't even know it...


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## heckler7 (Jun 24, 2012)

vortrit said:


> I probably wouldn't either, but then again I substitute teach from time-to-time and some of the kids are pretty disrespectful. If you're going to work around kids you have to expect this type of thing to happen every once in a while, and you definitely can't have a thin skin. I think it's kind of funny she is the bus monitor (as I understand it) and it's her job to prevent this kind of thing from happening. Obviously (and I'm not sticking up for these kids one bit because they are obviously punks) she is not very good at her job.
> 
> I still find it ironic that the video the kids obviously made is posted with a link to donate money to her under it.


i remember when I was around that age we were pretty rough on each other even worse than those kids, we just didnt have youtube back then.


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## HialeahChico305 (Jun 24, 2012)

vortrit said:


> I probably wouldn't either, but then again I substitute teach from time-to-time and some of the kids are pretty disrespectful.




Substitute teachers get it the worst, kids know it is game time when the regular teacher misses a day.


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## LAM (Jun 25, 2012)

heckler7 said:


> i remember when I was around that age we were pretty rough on each other even worse than those kids, we just didnt have youtube back then.



we said mean things to each other but not to an adult, when/where I grew up that wasn't even an option.  only the worst of the worst kids in our school would ever curse at an adult or teacher, etc.


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## Faymus (Jun 25, 2012)

Dale Mabry said:


> Oddly enough, the fund was set up by a Canadian.



LOL you can always count on a Canadian. Friendly folks.

Seriously though. Kids nowadays are getting worse and worse. Its going downhill quicker than I had anticipated.


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## exphys88 (Jun 25, 2012)

Faymus said:


> LOL you can always count on a Canadian. Friendly folks.
> 
> Seriously though. Kids nowadays are getting worse and worse. Its going downhill quicker than I had anticipated.


It's because they have not found the Flying Spaghetti Monster.


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## HialeahChico305 (Jun 25, 2012)

Faymus said:


> Seriously though. Kids nowadays are getting worse and worse. Its going downhill quicker than I had anticipated.



What do you think is the reason for this result? This is open chat, open up and speak your mind. Saying that is getting worse without discussing the issue in hand won't bring a solution to the problem.


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## heckler7 (Jun 25, 2012)

LAM said:


> we said mean things to each other but not to an adult, when/where I grew up that wasn't even an option. only the worst of the worst kids in our school would ever curse at an adult or teacher, etc.


you need to have tough skin to deal with kids, if you cant handle that kind of job than you arent doing yourself or those kids anygood. You need to earn their respect, kids dont just give it to you these days because your old. I teach my kids manners and respect, and I teach my son to let his sister and mother to go first and to hold doors for elderly and women. Kids need to be taught at home that they dont have to give into peer pressure and they will get more respect from others if they dont follow the pack or feel they need to prove themselves.


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## blergs. (Jun 25, 2012)

Well I am happy she is getting something out of this!
That was just not right!


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## Curt James (Jun 25, 2012)

vortrit said:


> I probably wouldn't either, but then again I substitute teach from time-to-time and some of the kids are pretty disrespectful. If you're going to work around kids you have to expect this type of thing to happen every once in a while, and you definitely can't have a thin skin. I think it's kind of funny she is the bus monitor (as I understand it) and it's her job to prevent this kind of thing from happening. Obviously (and I'm not sticking up for these kids one bit because they are obviously punks) *she is not very good at her job.*
> 
> I still find it* ironic that the video the kids obviously made is posted with a link to donate money to her under it.*



As a _monitor_ perhaps her job is to simply be an adult watchful eye on the students riding the bus. During the video she stated something like she was told if she had nothing good to say to not say anything at all - good words for those students to hear. Without knowing her assigned job responsibilities it's impossible to state she's not very good at her job.

Also, the video with the "link to donate money" - I believe - was re-posted by another individual. It is not the video originally posted by the students involved in the harassment.


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## Big Pimpin (Jun 25, 2012)

HialeahChico305 said:


> What do you think is the reason for this result? This is open chat, open up and speak your mind. Saying that is getting worse without discussing the issue in hand won't bring a solution to the problem.




Simply put parenting has dramatically gone down hill.



If the kid was ever disciplined by the parents, they were probably put in time out.
 


Parents try to be their kid's best friend and give into their every whim when possible.
 


As far as parents are concerned the child is always right regardless of what the teacher/coach/cop says.
 


Schools falsely teach the kids at a young age there is no such thing as 2nd place or being a loser.

The list just goes on.


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## HialeahChico305 (Jun 25, 2012)

I'll add my 2 cents to that list and say Parents as general must teach kids to be humble, most kids have a ego bigger than my erect cock. A inflated ego robs you from learning from our teacher/elders. Burn your fucking tvs and teach your kids to get off their ass and play outside.


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## LAM (Jun 26, 2012)

Big Pimpin said:


> Simply put parenting has dramatically gone down hill.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



big ditto to your entire list....have witnessed all of these things first hand.  have also seen the children of many babyboomers that are barely functional in society because they have been coddled so much and have been told they are "special" so many times they have inflated ego's yet they lack any skills or extraordinary knowledge to ever be called such by anyone but their parents.


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