# Sustanon 350 and Deca 300 help



## StephFigs82 (Mar 5, 2009)

I am 5'8'' and my weight varies from 144 - 150 lbs constantly. I am what you call a hardgainer.. I am very knowledgable with weight training and dieting healthy. And I've been at my best around 158- 162 lbs. I lost weight for modeling witch was a bad decision, and every since I just don't gain like I used to.. Its very frustrating... 

A friend of mine, similar in size, insisted I try a cycle. Long story short, I ended up getting Sustanon 350 by Optimus and Deca 300 by stallion.  When it comes down to it, Im terrified of needles, so I've had them for 5 months... Now  im at the point, where i want to take them.

I don't want to get huge, I don't want to look like I'm on a cycle, i want it to look as natural as possible. Just like to gain 10-15 lbs, maybe 20 of lean dry muscle.

Can any of you guys help me out, with the process?? 

Do I take one or the other?
Should I stack both?
How much do I take a week, and how many times?

Any help would be greatly appreciated !!

Thanks 

Steve


----------



## StephFigs82 (Mar 5, 2009)

Sorry guys, had to make another page, because I used the wrong email address..

So StephFigs82 and StephanoFigs are both me, but Im ONLY going to use StephanoFigs.


----------



## VictorZ06 (Mar 6, 2009)

What's your age?  Have you used AAS before?


----------



## StephanoFigs (Mar 6, 2009)

25 years old, no i haven't ?


----------



## largepkg (Mar 6, 2009)

Let me ask you something. Do you think adding 15lbs of lean muscle in 10-12 weeks is going to look natural?


----------



## sendit08 (Mar 6, 2009)

can you tell us why you have chosen sutanon?
What are all the esters included in this makeshift version of sustanon?
What are the active lives and half lives of each ester?
Based on the previous question, how do you plan on keeping your test levels consistant?


----------



## antonyman (Mar 6, 2009)

i need same help..i want 25-30lbs if its possible!


----------



## Shadowcam (Mar 6, 2009)

StephFigs82 said:


> I am 5'8'' and my weight varies from 144 - 150 lbs constantly. I am what you call a hardgainer..* I am very knowledgable with weight training and dieting healthy*. And I've been at my best around 158- 162 lbs. I lost weight for modeling witch was a bad decision, and every since I just don't gain like I used to.. Its very frustrating...
> 
> A friend of mine, similar in size, insisted I try a cycle. Long story short, I ended up getting Sustanon 350 by Optimus and Deca 300 by stallion.  When it comes down to it, Im terrified of needles, so I've had them for 5 months... Now  im at the point, where i want to take them.
> 
> ...



If you were very knomlegable on training and diet you would be much heavier than 140-150 LBS dont be ignorant.

If you dont want to look like you on a cycle then dont take steroids! thasts like saying I want a red car but dont want it to look red, makes no sense.

Sell the drugs and learn how to eat and dont use that hardgainer bullshit as an excuse.


----------



## Shadowcam (Mar 6, 2009)

antonyman said:


> i need same help..i want 25-30lbs if its possible!



weeks 1-12     5 mud cakes/day
                    5 meat pies/day
                    1 pack smarties/day

Good Luck!


----------



## StephanoFigs (Mar 6, 2009)

bro first of all, keep that roid rage Kangaroo fucking in Australia ! Try to live in Manhattan, and eat a 3,500 + calorie diet a day routine, not easy, and very expensive. i didnt ask for your opinion, i ask for help on how i should go about taking the cycle!


----------



## VictorZ06 (Mar 7, 2009)

Bro, I live and work in Manhattan.  Your geography has nothing to do with how many calories you put down.  You know that in the city, everything is just a phone call away, 24/7 and you have access to most anything.

Put the weight on naturally and continue to lift.  You said you are "very knowledgable with weight training and dieting healthy".  If this was the case, you would not weigh a mere 144lbs and considering using AAS.  You need to eat and gain weight along with proper training for a while before you hit the juice.  Or else you are just wasting your $$.  Not bashing ya, it's the truth.  

After that, if you still want to....take the juice.  I'm not a sust fan at all (because of what sendit said), but this is how I would run it if I only had those two products..

1-12 sust 350-500mg e/w
1-10 decca 300-400mg e/w

HCG and PCT

Don't be a fool and jump into this, wait until you can put down -5-6K calories a day.  And no, not at all hard to do in Manhattan.  Been doing so for a dozen years bro.  One of the nicest things about Manhattan is the variety of food at your fingertips.  Yes, a bit expensive...buy your food in the Bronx and bring it with you to work if it's a problem.  You don't have to shop at Whole Foods....even though they have the best butcher in town. 

/V


----------



## quark (Mar 7, 2009)

^^^Victor has proven he knows what he's talking about over and again. Listen to him.


----------



## Gazhole (Mar 7, 2009)

StephanoFigs said:


> bro first of all, keep that roid rage Kangaroo fucking in Australia ! Try to live in Manhattan, and eat a 3,500 + calorie diet a day routine, not easy, and very expensive. i didnt ask for your opinion, i ask for help on how i should go about taking the cycle!



How do you suppose you will put on mass on a cycle? Breathing in airborne calories?

If you aren't gaining off steroids you won't gain on them. When you're on a cycle you need to eat more than you ever have, and train harder and better than you ever have, else you're not going to take advantage of the immense recovery abilities the gear will give you.

If you're not eating enough to gain weight now, steroids won't help you any, man. They're not magic. The energy to synthesize new muscle tissue has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is food.

I'm a so called "hardgainer" ie an ectomorph. I weighed 108lbs when i started training and was an inch taller than you. I learned how to lift properly, ate so much i felt sick pretty much every moment i was awake, and got to 195lbs in the space of about 5 years.

If i did it without roids, anybody can do it. Right now at your weight you don't need anabolics, you need food and a squat rack.


----------



## Hench (Mar 7, 2009)

Gazhole said:


> How do you suppose you will put on mass on a cycle? Breathing in airborne calories?
> 
> If you aren't gaining off steroids you won't gain on them. When you're on a cycle you need to eat more than you ever have, and train harder and better than you ever have, else you're not going to take advantage of the immense recovery abilities the gear will give you.
> 
> ...



Perfectly said Gaz. 

....although were still gona destroy you in 2 weeks time in Cardiff.


----------



## Gazhole (Mar 7, 2009)

Moondogg said:


> Perfectly said Gaz.
> 
> ....although were still gona destroy you in 2 weeks time in Cardiff.



Bring it on, i'm looking forward to you eating those words


----------



## Shadowcam (Mar 8, 2009)

StephanoFigs said:


> bro first of all, keep that roid rage Kangaroo fucking in Australia ! Try to live in Manhattan, and eat a 3,500 + calorie diet a day routine, not easy, and very expensive. i didnt ask for your opinion, i ask for help on how i should go about taking the cycle!



More excuses! and you did ask for opinions but your to ignorant to listen to them so do as you please big guy!


----------



## Pirate! (Mar 8, 2009)

The gear won't help without the calories.


----------



## Shadowcam (Mar 8, 2009)

StephanoFigs said:


> bro first of all, keep that roid rage Kangaroo fucking in Australia ! Try to live in Manhattan, and eat a 3,500 + calorie diet a day routine, not easy, and very expensive. i didnt ask for your opinion, i ask for help on how i should go about taking the cycle!



So your a hardgainer because you live in manhattan and dont have the disapline to eat enough calories or cant afford to eat enough because you probally dont work! so your looking for easy options. Nobodys going to give you advice on steroids because your nowhere near ready and your not mature enough. Obviously bodybuildings not for you, stick to modelling.


----------



## jirayasensei (May 23, 2009)

*new cycle*

yo im a novice (meaning first cycle)doing deca  300 wk susta 250 wk cycle weight 180 at begining, two weeks on  and im up to 187 lbs my goal is 205- 210 lbs by end of 10 week cycle, hopefully keep 15 lbs, i gained some weight but noting noticeable on mucle size .im 25 been working out for 6 years currently eating 300 g of protein a day about 4k cal .my question is for u guys is this enough for good muscle size or should i up the dosage to 500 susta 400 deca . and yes i have a pct and i have studied about this for the past month an half.


----------



## VictorZ06 (May 23, 2009)

jirayasensei said:


> yo im a novice (meaning first cycle)doing deca  300 wk susta 250 wk cycle weight 180 at begining, two weeks on  and im up to 187 lbs my goal is 205- 210 lbs by end of 10 week cycle, hopefully keep 15 lbs, i gained some weight but noting noticeable on mucle size .im 25 been working out for 6 years currently eating 300 g of protein a day about 4k cal .my question is for u guys is this enough for good muscle size or should i up the dosage to 500 susta 400 deca . and yes i have a pct and i have studied about this for the past month an half.



You will be much better off with 500mg sust and 400mg deca.  *Always use more test than deca.*  I would also up the protein intake 50g+ as well as an additional 1K in calories.

250mg e/w of sust is a waste of $.

/V


----------



## jirayasensei (May 24, 2009)

cool man thanks for the advice .


----------



## RoosterTX (May 24, 2009)

jirayasensei said:


> cool man thanks for the advice .



Holy shit someone is actually listening to advice.


----------



## jirayasensei (May 25, 2009)

lol


----------



## jirayasensei (May 25, 2009)

hey dudes how long till the super strength i hear juice gives you kicks in cus i just hit week 3 today on a deca susta cycle and i only feel a bit stronger nothing crazy.


----------



## Aodha (May 26, 2009)

I'm definetly a "hardgainer." I'm currently running sus 250 and it really helped my appetite. It's easy for me to put down 4k calories a day. Before it was nearly imposible. My body would just reject the food. Alot of these guys are extremely knowledgeable, but they can't relate to what it means to be a hardgainer.


----------



## Aodha (May 26, 2009)

jirayasensei said:


> yo im a novice (meaning first cycle)doing deca  300 wk susta 250 wk cycle weight 180 at begining, two weeks on  and im up to 187 lbs my goal is 205- 210 lbs by end of 10 week cycle, hopefully keep 15 lbs, i gained some weight but noting noticeable on mucle size .im 25 been working out for 6 years currently eating 300 g of protein a day about 4k cal .my question is for u guys is this enough for good muscle size or should i up the dosage to 500 susta 400 deca . and yes i have a pct and i have studied about this for the past month an half.



I retract my previous statement...
You're 180 lb and you're a "hardgainer?" nah man, you just weren't eating enough.


----------



## RoosterTX (May 26, 2009)

jirayasensei said:


> hey dudes how long till the super strength i hear juice gives you kicks in cus i just hit week 3 today on a deca susta cycle and i only feel a bit stronger nothing crazy.



What are your doses and what is your injection schedule?


----------



## jirayasensei (May 26, 2009)

um ...susta 500 monday and friday(250 each day )then deca 150 monday and 300 friday for 7 more weeks , basicaly its a cc and half on monday then two cc on friday.today (tuesday)it felt a lil stronger at the gym is like am mutating... awww GET DOWN!!!lol and im at 190lbs with clothes but yeah like he said i could not eat more than 3k my body will kicked me in the face. so im starting to notice a difference.by the way im taking hcg and nova as pct do you guys know about a better pct ?and also ill be doing a cycle a year .from experience what do you guys recomend to take as a second cycle to get bulk and a bit defined?should i use the same gear or try a different one?one more thing after i get off the gear i know strenght and some weight goes down but how long do you guys have kept some gains for , considering continues training and a decent diet.


----------



## Shadowcam (May 26, 2009)

Aodha said:


> I'm definetly a "hardgainer." I'm currently running sus 250 and it really helped my appetite. It's easy for me to put down 4k calories a day. Before it was nearly imposible. My body would just reject the food. Alot of these guys are extremely knowledgeable, *but they can't relate to what it means to be a hardgainer.*



LOL!


----------



## VictorZ06 (May 27, 2009)

jirayasensei said:


> um ...susta 500 monday and friday(250 each day )then deca 150 monday and 300 friday for 7 more weeks , basicaly its a cc and half on monday then two cc on friday.today (tuesday)it felt a lil stronger at the gym is like am mutating... awww GET DOWN!!!lol and im at 190lbs with clothes but yeah like he said i could not eat more than 3k my body will kicked me in the face. so im starting to notice a difference.by the way im taking hcg and nova as pct do you guys know about a better pct ?and also ill be doing a cycle a year .from experience what do you guys recomend to take as a second cycle to get bulk and a bit defined?should i use the same gear or try a different one?one more thing after i get off the gear i know strenght and some weight goes down but how long do you guys have kept some gains for , considering continues training and a decent diet.



That's one clusterfuck of a cycle bro. 

/V


----------



## RoosterTX (May 27, 2009)

jirayasensei said:


> um ...susta 500 monday and friday(250 each day )then deca 150 monday and 300 friday for 7 more weeks , basicaly its a cc and half on monday then two cc on friday.today (tuesday)it felt a lil stronger at the gym is like am mutating... awww GET DOWN!!!lol and im at 190lbs with clothes but yeah like he said i could not eat more than 3k my body will kicked me in the face. so im starting to notice a difference.by the way im taking hcg and nova as pct do you guys know about a better pct ?and also ill be doing a cycle a year .from experience what do you guys recomend to take as a second cycle to get bulk and a bit defined?should i use the same gear or try a different one?one more thing after i get off the gear i know strenght and some weight goes down but how long do you guys have kept some gains for , considering continues training and a decent diet.



Why are you splitting up your deca dosage, there is no need. Also I would reccomend 125mg eod instead of 250 every four days. 

Start taking the HCG now at 3-500ius, depending on bodyfat, and continue until three weeks after your last injection.

Also make sure your last deca injection is two weeks before your last sust injection.


----------



## Aodha (May 27, 2009)

Shadowcam said:


> LOL!



Damn straight you can't relate.


----------



## jirayasensei (May 27, 2009)

dude you told me to take 500 and 400 deca why is it a clusterfok?lol


----------



## jirayasensei (May 27, 2009)

im  spliting the deca dosage because oil based can be mixed and i dint know about it ...first time user here bro .so u saying i sould take deca 450 on friday plus susta 250 then susta 250 on monday , besides its only like 3 days i dont wana get calluses on my muscles of so much cont shots but thanks for the help man i will definately take deca together from now on in one day.


----------



## jirayasensei (May 27, 2009)

yeah im taking hcg during the cycle 500 ui per week 3 times a week every 2 days i read hcg stays in your body for 64 hours , my balls dont look atrophied at all , they did shrank at day 3 lol.should i run sustan 500 all the way til the last week then?its 10 weeks in total man.


----------



## VictorZ06 (May 27, 2009)

jirayasensei said:


> dude you told me to take 500 and 400 deca why is it a clusterfok?lol



I love that word. 

I don't understand the splitting of the dose.  Since it's sust you are taking, you want to use it more often than 2 X a week.  If you are taking 500mg as you are, you should be breaking it up into 3-4 shots a week...not 2.  

If you wanted to shoot only twice a week, you should have gone with something like test enan instead.  Because of props blended esters, the shorter acting ones will have stopped working before it's time for your next shot...causing your levels to fluctuate, and you want them consistent and even...thats why you have to pin sust EOD or ED.  Eh, but if you are doing the 500/400 like you said, you'll be ok...you will just benefit a lot more by breaking the shots up more often.  Good luck!

/V


----------



## VictorZ06 (May 27, 2009)

jirayasensei said:


> yeah im taking hcg during the cycle 500 ui per week 3 times a week every 2 days i read hcg stays in your body for 64 hours , my balls dont look atrophied at all , they did shrank at day 3 lol.should i run sustan 500 all the way til the last week then?its 10 weeks in total man.



See...that's the problem with sust.  At the end, after the short acting tests stop working, you still have the longer acting ones still working.  So you midas well stop it at the same time as the deca, since the deca will also be working long after.

/V


----------



## RoosterTX (May 27, 2009)

Vic,

What would you think about taking 20mg per day of dbol for the first two weeks and the last two weeks of a sust cycle. Here's what I'm working with Sustanon 250 (5000mgs) and 600mgs of Dbol. Of course I have HCG, I also have Deca (4000mgs) but will probably hold off on the deca as it is my first cycle in four years, second cycle total. I may go with 100-200mg of deca per week. 

I'm a ways away from starting, but I'd like to formulate the best plan with what I've got.


----------



## Shadowcam (May 28, 2009)

Aodha said:


> Damn straight you can't relate.



You are very unfortunate to have such a terrible dissorder!


----------



## VictorZ06 (May 28, 2009)

RoosterTX said:


> Vic,
> 
> What would you think about taking 20mg per day of dbol for the first two weeks and the last two weeks of a sust cycle. Here's what I'm working with Sustanon 250 (5000mgs) and 600mgs of Dbol. Of course I have HCG, I also have Deca (4000mgs) but will probably hold off on the deca as it is my first cycle in four years, second cycle total. I may go with 100-200mg of deca per week.
> 
> I'm a ways away from starting, but I'd like to formulate the best plan with what I've got.



You don't really need the dbol to kickstart because sust has short acting esters like we discussed.  Sure, you could add some dbol in there.  Again, I think 2 weeks @20mg ed is way on the light side.  If you want to run it at 20mg, fine...just try and squeeze at least 4 weeks in there.  I usually run between 30-50mg for 5-6 weeks.  WITH milk thistle, liv 52, etc.

100-200mg a week of deca is a bad idea, your deca dose should be a little more than half of your test dose.  Deca takes the longest time to start working, and it takes the longest time to leave your system.  I wouldn't run deca under 350-400mg ew, IMHO, unless it's for joint lube.

/V


----------



## RoosterTX (May 28, 2009)

VictorZ06 said:


> You don't really need the dbol to kickstart because sust has short acting esters like we discussed.  Sure, you could add some dbol in there.  Again, I think 2 weeks @20mg ed is way on the light side.  If you want to run it at 20mg, fine...just try and squeeze at least 4 weeks in there.  I usually run between 30-50mg for 5-6 weeks.  WITH milk thistle, liv 52, etc.
> 
> 100-200mg a week of deca is a bad idea, your deca dose should be a little more than half of your test dose.  Deca takes the longest time to start working, and it takes the longest time to leave your system.  I wouldn't run deca under 350-400mg ew, IMHO, unless it's for joint lube.
> 
> /V



The deca, if I run it, would be for nagging injuries and lubrication. Any thoughts on tapering at the end with D-bol?


----------



## VictorZ06 (May 28, 2009)

Tapering at the end will only make recovery more difficult, if you use it, use it up front.


----------



## jirayasensei (May 28, 2009)

ok victor . so ill do like you told me man eod with sustan but how should i break it down by geting 125mg eod?(500 a week)that will be half a cc eod and then deca 450 mg on fridays .Im a good so far ?so in you opinion what is the best test to bulk up and what drugs should i use as pct besides hcg and nolva?and how should i use the nolva cus i heard 4 weeks 20mg everyday two weeks after my last test shot.


----------



## VictorZ06 (May 29, 2009)

^What do you mean 450mg of deca on Fridays??  The best bulking test is enan in my opinion.  And use the HCG during your cycle, not post.  Nolva is OK, 4 weeks at 20mg is ok.  You can also do 40/20/20/20.  And yes, start taking it 2 weeks after your last shot of deca.

/V


----------



## Shadowcam (May 29, 2009)

VictorZ06 said:


> ^What do you mean 450mg of deca on Fridays??  The best bulking test is enan in my opinion.  And use the HCG during your cycle, not post.  Nolva is OK, 4 weeks at 20mg is ok.  You can also do 40/20/20/20. * And yes, start taking it 2 weeks after your last shot of deca.*
> 
> /V



Victor meant Test!


----------



## jirayasensei (May 29, 2009)

yea man remember im taking 500mg of susta + deca 450 once a week then the susta eod at 125mg to total 500 e/w.etha test huh , how much shoul i take it /ill prob do it for my second cycle , should i put another one with it for better results, and yes im taking hcg on cycle 500ui a week.


----------



## VictorZ06 (May 29, 2009)

I'm not sure what you are asking here, are you asking how to break up the deca?  If so, you can take a little every time you take your sust, or take two shots a week at 225mg each.  Deca 2X a week is ok.  Mix it on Mon and Wed sust shots.

/V


----------



## Aodha (May 29, 2009)

Shadowcam said:


> LOL!





Shadowcam said:


> You are very unfortunate to have such a terrible dissorder!



At least I'm not Australian! Grow up, get back to the forum.


----------



## jirayasensei (May 29, 2009)

nice .today i finaly started to see muscle growth ...its freaky man , i gained 12 lbs so far so i guess my gear is legit.about the other thing i told you since you seem to know alot about this victor what gear should i use for my second cycle and how much time off you usualy take after a cycle man i was thinking on taking one every 9 months, does the gains from the juice diminish with time.?i know at first i will lose so,e weight but i should hopefuly keep 15 lbs .


----------



## Shadowcam (May 30, 2009)

Aodha said:


> At least I'm not Australian! Grow up, get back to the forum.



Im not Australian either so that was a pointless comment!
No need for me to grow up, Ive done plenty of growing son!
You on the other hand NOT SO MUCH due to your disability.


----------



## VictorZ06 (May 30, 2009)

I wouldn't worry about the second cycle as of yet, lets see your final results from THIS cycle, and later on we can suit you for a second one.  Who knows, you may decide you need to continue to bulk instead of cut.  

Rule of thumb with time is, "time on = time off".  So if you ran a 12 week cycle, you want to wait at least 12 weeks.  Some guys include PCT time as well, so in that case you would wait 16 weeks.  12-16 weeks depends on how well and how fast your body recovers.

/V


----------



## jirayasensei (May 30, 2009)

cool , ur right my goal is to reach 210-220 muscle weight im 5-10 with long extremities.lets see


----------



## VictorZ06 (Jun 1, 2009)

silambu said:


> A friend of mine was telling me to take Deca on like mondays, and Sus on Wednesdays...



Your friend is a fool....Sus has to be taken EOD/ED....not just once a week!!


----------



## jirayasensei (Jun 5, 2009)

yo is arimedex good to take during a cycle as a prevention for gyno. and if so will it limit your muscle gains , cus i read nolva can not be taken with deca otherwise it will exacerbate the estrogen problems.


----------



## VictorZ06 (Jun 5, 2009)

Adex is good stuff, and you can use nolva with deca.

/V


----------



## jirayasensei (Jul 10, 2009)

what do you guys know about trembolon . i heard is better than test, stronger too so prob more side effects?


----------



## VictorZ06 (Jul 10, 2009)

jirayasensei said:


> what do you guys know about trembolon . i heard is better than test, stronger too so prob more side effects?



I believe you are talking about tren.  

It's a different substance all together.  Not to be use by beginners because of it's nasty side effects.

/V


----------



## jirayasensei (Jul 13, 2009)

so when can it be taken


----------



## VictorZ06 (Jul 13, 2009)

jirayasensei said:


> so when can it be taken



Well, some bulk _and_ cut with tren.  I find it much more useful when cutting.  I don't like running it for more than 8 weeks at a time (usually less), so I start using it a few weeks into my cycle.  And like I said, because of how strong this substance is, I wouldn't advise a novice user to take tren.  Perhaps after ones 3rd, 4th, or 5th cycle.  IMHO. 

/V


----------



## jirayasensei (Jul 17, 2009)

cool, so do you recomend taking it alone or can it be taking with deca or anavar ?by the way im in my last week of the cycle im at 201lbs , i started with 180lbs and its funy and phycological i guess cus people tell me yo ...wtf are you taking and i realy see myself the same dude .lol thanks for the info bro, apreciate your advice.


----------



## jirayasensei (Jul 17, 2009)

by the way i have to start the nolva 2 weeks after i stop , at 20 mg a day for 30 days right?


----------

