# Negative reps!



## jimm (Aug 17, 2011)

Arite guys well i was wondering how much you incorporate these into your workouts and to what extent..? for example say ive just done a bicep workout id finished my routine and decide to do some negatives how many negatives should i be doing? should i do drop sets till i litterally cant do any more or just blast out a set? and how frequent like should i do negatives every time i train biceps or just every now and then cheers.


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## Pittsburgh63 (Aug 17, 2011)

If you have a lifting partner or spotter, I personally like to lift until failure on the positive then when needed have assistance getting the weight up and work slow negatives until I can't control them anymore.  You'll find that your affinity for the negatives will greatly outlast your positive reps.


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## jimm (Aug 17, 2011)

Pittsburgh63 said:


> If you have a lifting partner or spotter, I personally like to lift until failure on the positive then when needed have assistance getting the weight up and work slow negatives until I can't control them anymore. You'll find that your affinity for the negatives will greatly outlast your positive reps.


 

i hear ya will you do drop sets on the negatives tho?


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## Life (Aug 17, 2011)

You shouldn't be doing drop sets with negatives. They should be done on your last set only and used sparingly at that.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Aug 17, 2011)

*Eccentric Training*



jimm said:


> Arite guys well i was wondering how much you incorporate these into your workouts and to what extent..? for example say ive just done a bicep workout id finished my routine and decide to do some negatives how many negatives should i be doing? should i do drop sets till i litterally cant do any more or just blast out a set? and how frequent like should i do negatives every time i train biceps or just every now and then cheers.



jimm,

*Negative/Eccentric Movements*

Eccentrics and Isometrics are two of the most misunderstood method in strength training. 

Both are effective method at increasing strength, size, power and speed, dependent on how you write your program.  

*Eccentric Training*, Warren Frost
http://www.strengthandconditioning.org/dimages/Eccentric Training.pdf

One of the best research artiles is Warren Frost.  This article will provide you with a good founation on how to write an eccentric training program. 

*Russian Eccentric Training*

One of the Soviets method of increasing strength was to incorporate eccentric training into their program.  Approximately, 10-15% of their annual training program involved eccentric training.  Secrets of Russian Sports Training and Fitness, Dr Michael Yessis (Yessis is one of the gurus of strength training).  

*10-15% Annually*

That would equate to employing eccentrics ONLY training in your program five to 8 weeks out the year.  

*Limiting Eccentric Strength Training*

The reason for limiting eccentric strength training is because it quickly overloads/overtrains you.

Thus, the reasoning for only using it five to 8 weeks during your annual training cycle. 

That means you want to use it, as you put it, "every now and then."

*Supramaximal Eccentric*

Eccentrics are termed as "Supramaximal" load. That because you can work up to load much greater than your concentric contraction in a movement.  

Forst "Eccentric Training" article recommends workinig up to load that are 120% of your 1RM (One Repetition Maximum). 

*300 lb Bench Press Example*

That mean if you can bench press 300 lbs one time.  You could work up to a360 lb X 1 Repetition Eccentric.  

*Eccentric Percentage Research*

Some research has indicated that you can work up to 150% of your concentric contraction maximum.  

This absurd.  That would mean if your bench press were 300 bls that you could lower 450 lbs.  

Anyone trying to perform an eccentric with 150% of their 1RM in a bench press will have the  bar tatooed to their chest.  

Submaximum Eccentric Loads

As with anything new, it's better to start of easy and work your way up.  

With that in mind, you need to use eccentric loads that are lighter than your 1RM.

That means if your max bench press is 300 lbs, you need to start off using an eccentric load of about 225 lbs for 2-3 repetitions. 

*Delayed Onset of Muscle Soreness, DOMS*
This is caused by trama to the muscles.  The best way to minimize it is to start off with a submaximal load and work your way up.  

Doing so allows your muscle to become acclimated to eccentric training...minor or no soreness.  

*Eccentric Acclimation*

Research show by slowly introducing eccentric training to your muscles, allows the less trama.  That means as you progress, there is very little soreness.  

*Ballistic Eccentrics*

One least know or understood method of training is ballitic eccentrics.  Ballistic meaning an object or body becomes airborne.  

Eccentric meaning a downward motion. 

*Depth Landings*

Jumping off a box or platform and sticking the landing (as gymnast do) is a ballistic eccentric action. 

This is one of the most effective method of increasing sprint and jumping speed and power.  

Medicine Ball Bench Press Drop Depth Landings

Depth Landing can also be employed with upper body movements.  One method to use the medicine ball drop.  

This is described in, "Plyometric Bench Press Training For More Sterngth and Power".  Kenny Plyometric Bench press

*David Kerin and Jay Schroeder*

Two of the most knowledgable strength coahes on this are Kerin and Schroeder.  

*Frost Eccentric Training Article*

Warren Frost article touches on Ballistic Eccentric Sterngth Training.  So, it will give you a bit of a foundation to build on...if your interested.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## Pika (Aug 17, 2011)

I was told that you do your neg's at every last 2 to 3 reps on every set you do


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## ANIMALHAUS (Aug 17, 2011)

I only give negative reps to trolls and know-it-all-noobs... Ohhhhh, you mean while training!!!


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## ponyboy (Aug 17, 2011)

A lot of using negative reps is teaching your nervous system what a heavier load feels like.  Since you can generally lower more than you can lift (due to many things, but includes things like gravity) it can be a good way to introduce a heavier load to your joints.  However, definitely not every workout and definitely only for things like pushing past a plateau in my opinion.


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## SloppyJ (Aug 17, 2011)

I enjoy doing negatives on the curl machine at the end of a bicep workout. Come up with two and do the negative with one arm. It really gives me a nice pump walking into the locker room. 

I only do these MAYBE once a month. Just when I think about it.


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## mnpower (Aug 17, 2011)

ponyboy said:


> A lot of using negative reps is teaching your nervous system what a heavier load feels like.  Since you can generally lower more than you can lift (due to many things, but includes things like gravity) it can be a good way to introduce a heavier load to your joints.  However, definitely not every workout and definitely only for things like pushing past a plateau in my opinion.




amen, i never really do a negative expecting to get strong out of it..or do negatives much at all. I will do a board press and or half/sissy squat to a high box to introduce my CNS to a much heavier weight then it is used to. IE

Had a girl getting ready for a meet this last week. Her last squat day she told me she wanted to squat 250 in the meet...she had not done over 235. so we loaded the bar with 250 and just had her do a walk out and hold it for 10 seconds and walked it back in. shes like omg that feels so heavy. So i loaded it up to 300lbs and said now walk that out just had her walk out get set and put it back in. loan be hold when she got to the meet her CNS had felt much over 250 so it wasnt such a shocker when it got on her back and she smoked 255 easy. Theres much more mental games to lifting then people think.


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## jimm (Aug 17, 2011)

SloppyJ said:


> I enjoy doing negatives on the curl machine at the end of a bicep workout. Come up with two and do the negative with one arm. It really gives me a nice pump walking into the locker room.
> 
> I only do these MAYBE once a month. Just when I think about it.


 



LOL gotta love that leave the gym with an extra inch on the arms then by the time your home you look like this....


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## Pika (Aug 17, 2011)

Haa ^^


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## SuperLift (Aug 18, 2011)

I do them but not every workout. They can be very stressful on joints/tendons. It is a great way to add some strength and bust through some plateaus !


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## cschaaf (Aug 18, 2011)

I do negatives on my flat bench about every time I hit chest, usually on a 3-5 rep set to get a bit more out when I can't bring it upnall the way,,, big fan on the negatives myself


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## Tuco (Aug 19, 2011)

I feel like negatives at the end of a workout are great to really fatigue the muscle.


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## jimm (Aug 23, 2011)

i fuckin love em man negs are deffo some gooooood shit.


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## tballz (Aug 23, 2011)

I throw in some negatives once and awhile.


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## lifetime (Aug 23, 2011)

I did negatives on my last set of DB bench press with the 120's (BW of 178-182 currently) and can feel the DOMS today. Will incorporate these into my workouts more for a short period of time.


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## jimm (Oct 13, 2012)

strong bump but didnt wanna start a new thread and was gonna ask about this again... whens best to do negatives training with a partner now sometime when i can and been throwing in lots of forced negatives as i feel like ive hit a platue so lets say every other week incorperate negatives in the last sets of your workout when applicable of course..


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## Kenny Croxdale (Oct 13, 2012)

jimm said:


> strong bump but didnt wanna start a new thread and was gonna ask about this again... whens best to do negatives training with a partner now sometime when i can and been throwing in lots of forced negatives as i feel like ive hit a platue so lets say every other week incorperate negatives in the last sets of your workout when applicable of course..



*Negative*

The Russian found (Secrets of Russian Sports Training and Fitness/Dr Michael Yessis) found 10-15% of their annual training with Eccentrics/Negatives to be the most effective.

In other word, a little goes a long way with negatives.  Overtraining can quickly occur with negatives.

*Every Other Week*

That is an effective method. 

*Ease Into the Eccentric Load*

Soreness occurs when muscle are overloaded in a new movement be it eccentric or concentric.  

*DOMS*

Muscle soreness can be minilized or eliminated in Eccentrics/negatives with a program that is properly written. 

Thus, to minimize soreness and insure progress, begin with sub max loads.  That means loads that are lower than your 1Repetition Concentric Maximum.  

*300 lb Concentric Bench Press Max Example*

If your the most weight you can push up in a bench press is 300 lbs, start your eccentric bench press training with 250 lbs for 1-2 eccentric repetitions. 

*Warren Frost Research*
Eccentric Training

This is a brilliant piece of work. 

"Eccentric Movements" is one of the best research articles there is.  Frost research demonstrated that little to no soreness occurs if when you allow the muscles to gradually be introduced to the eccentric action.  

*Supramaxminal Loads*

These are load above you concentric maximum.  That means if you can push up 300 lbs, you can perform an eccentric with even more.

*How much more? * 

Research and empirical data have fround that up to 120% of you concentric max, sometimes 130%, works best. 

So, if your best concentric bench press is 300 lbs, the most you can effectively use in an Eccentric ONLY bench press is around 360 lbs (300 X 120%).  

*Barbell Necklace*

Using eccentric loads above 120% insure that you will end up wearing the bar around you neck.  The barbell necklace isn't a pretty site. 

*Ballistic Eccentric Training*

Drop Landing, dropping off a box and sticking the landing like a gymnast does, is an effective training method.  It elicits a different training effect.  

Frost goes into how to use it in your training program.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## 1superman (Oct 13, 2012)

Just a suggestion jimm, If you like Dorian Yates, check out his BBing tips on youtube. He talks alot about the negative part of the lift. I like Dorian and his advise, a living legend...


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## jimm (Oct 13, 2012)

Yeah cheers again Kenny, and yes mate I love the shadow and I've seen the blood and guts and tips on you tube he stresses how important the negative is but he doesn't go into detail about how often it should be used, which is what I'm asking really


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## Kenny Croxdale (Oct 13, 2012)

jimm said:


> Yeah cheers again Kenny, and yes mate I love the shadow and I've seen the blood and guts and tips on you tube he stresses how important the negative is but he doesn't go into detail about how often it should be used, which is what I'm asking really



*Russian Training*

As I posted earlier, the Russians employed negative about 10-15% of the time.  

That means they performed Negative ONLY Training about 8 weeks out of the year, at most.  (52 weeks X 15% = 7.8 weeks)

*The Magic Number*

There is no magic number.  The message is that negatives need NOT be used too frequently.  

So, every other week will work for a while. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## 1superman (Oct 13, 2012)

jimm said:


> Yeah cheers again Kenny, and yes mate I love the shadow and I've seen the blood and guts and tips on you tube he stresses how important the negative is but *he doesn't go into detail about how often it should be used, which is what I'm asking really*


From what I gather bro, Dorian trained every rep of every set like that (Mr intensity). He trained each muscle group only once a week, to allow for recovery. Of course it's not for everyone, but you can't deny his success. Stretch, squeeze and time under tension is key for the pro's. Here is the 1st vid of a series where he trains back with Kai. Hope this helps bro.


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## jimm (Oct 14, 2012)

yeah ive seen it lok kai doesnt look very interested i mean he has different training style then dorian i dont think hes really listning his mentor whats his name victor tho what a fucking moron haha his facial expressions and over exaggerate grunting is horrific i feel embarrased for him....


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## Kenny Croxdale (Oct 14, 2012)

1superman said:


> From what I gather bro, Dorian trained every rep of every set like that (Mr intensity). He trained each muscle group only once a week, to allow for recovery. Of course it's not for everyone, but you can't deny his success. Stretch, squeeze and time under tension is key for the pro's. Here is the 1st vid of a series where he trains back with Kai. Hope this helps bro.



*Multiple Sets*

Yates build his physique with the tradition method of multiple sets and "supplements".

*One Set To Failure*

After he'd won the Mr Olympia, he bonded with Mike Mentzer.  Mentzer initially build his physique the same way, with multiple sets.  

Only later did Mentzer convert to the One Set to Failure. 

*Training Foundation*

The foundation of Yates and Mentzer physique's were build with multiple sets.  

It similar to getting a car up to speed.  You have to "burn some gas" to get it there. 

*Crusing*

After your car reaches it top speed, it takes less gas/effort to maintain that speed.  

That applies to Yates' and Mentzer's physiques.  One there, the single set to failure worked.  

"Mr Intensity" 

The problem with making every workout a high intensity training session is overtraining and injury.  

Yates had chronic injuries.  

*"All Work and NO Play..."*

1) "You freak your mind out." Albert Beckles

As Beckles (one of the top bodybuilders of his time) aptly stated, pushing yourself to the limit each workout burn you out mentally. 

*Ara Parsegian*

Parsegian, the Norte Dame Football Coach, retired and then worked as a commentator for college football games. 

One of the most prolific statements he made was druing a Texas Longhorn Vs Arkansas Razorback's game.  

Texas was vastely superior to Arkansas.  The announcer stated, the Texas should have NO problem beating Arkansas.

Parsegian then stated that Texas would have a hard time beating Arkansas.  

*Mental Burn Out*

As per Parsegian, the week before Texas had battled Oklahoma, another nationally rated team.  It was a blood bath.  The intensity mentally drained both teams.  

Parsegian then stated that it took 10 days for a team to mentally recover a mentally exhausting high intensity game like that. 

Texas beat Arkansas but stuggled to win the game. 

*Frying Your CNS*

Another part of overtraining is that you fry your Central Nervous System, you electrical system.  

*Russian Vs Bulgarian Weightlifters*

This is a classic example of how chronic high intensity training burn you out.  

*Russian Training Philosophy*

The Russians believe in slowly developing their weightlifters.  The end result was most of their weightlifters lasted longer.  Lifters like David Rigert were multiple World and Olympic Champions.  

*Bulgarian Training Philosophy*

The Bulgarians proved the value of multiple daily high intensity training sessions.  

This method turned good weightlifters into World and Olympic Champions over night.

*Disposable Bulgarian Weightlifters*

Ironically, the Bulgarian Weightlifters were "One Hit Wonders" (Naim S?leymanoğlu was the exception to the rule). 

*Sine Curve*

Life is composed of ups and downs. 

1) Day Time-Night Tim

2) High Tide-Low Tide

3) We Work-We Sleep

*Work + Rest = Success*

Periodization Training is build on the Sine Curve.  

Periodization Training is brakes it down into times to push it and time to back off and recovery. 

*Summary*

One of the majory keys to making continuous progress it to write a program that adhears to Work + Rest = Success.

Kenny Croxdale


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## bjg (Oct 14, 2012)

some of the key elements i follow in  my training:
1- training should include some fun and variation
2- do not train hard every workout, some workouts must be easy and some hard, when do i train hard? i just listen to my body
3- one of the key element in bodybuilding is longevity and long lasting results
4- to achieve longevity and long lasting results one should train smart avoiding injury and...
5- Patience patience patience: progress is slow there is no rush


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## jimm (Oct 14, 2012)

yates did have his share of injurys this is true..

kenny with the good info again bam!

kenny you need to bring out an app for the iphone so when ever im thinking something in regards to training i can say hmmm i wonder what kenny would think haha!


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## 1superman (Oct 15, 2012)

Dorian talking about his training style


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## 1superman (Oct 15, 2012)

Interesting interview with Dorian


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