# Does running burn muscle study discussion



## Call of Ktulu (Jul 17, 2011)

‪Will cardio burn muscle?‬‏ - YouTube

What do you guys think? Does it? How much is too much? Discuss.


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## gamma (Jul 17, 2011)

long distance running dose for sure, i believe according to the  body by design book he says that ur HR should be some where around 70 to 75% for optimal fat burning ans any more you risk burning muscle.


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## sosc (Jul 17, 2011)

Running _can_ breakdown muscle for fuel, however this
is definitely not the preferred route. First in line is glycogen
primarily in the liver and muscles. Next is body fat and
actual muscle.


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## njc (Jul 17, 2011)

I feel that, for me, very intense and short HIIT involving sprinting,walking,sprinting,walking etc.  can actually build muscle and increase power a bit.


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## Call of Ktulu (Jul 17, 2011)

njc said:


> I feel that, for me, very intense and short HIIT involving sprinting,walking,sprinting,walking etc. can actually build muscle and increase power a bit.


 Ditto.


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## fraseram (Jul 18, 2011)

second that for me I feel that, for me, very intense and short HIIT involving sprinting,walking,sprinting,walking etc. can actually build muscle and increase power a bit.


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## premo (Jul 19, 2011)

how short is short ?





fraseram said:


> second that for me I feel that, for me, very intense and short HIIT involving sprinting,walking,sprinting,walking etc. can actually build muscle and increase power a bit.


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## njc (Jul 20, 2011)

premo said:


> how short is short ?


 

Something like this...

jog for 4 minutes
SPRINT for 20 seconds (with everything youve got, like youre running from a bear)
Rest for 10 seconds
Sprint for 20 seconds
Rest for 20 seconds

Do this until you have sprinted 8 times and then walk for 4 minutes. Thats a VERY challenging and effective HIIT workout that takes only 14 minutes to complete.


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## ceazur (Jul 20, 2011)

Yes, but at micro slow speed


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## Call of Ktulu (Jul 23, 2011)

Scooby in the video says he does 2 hours. How is that even possible with his muscle size?


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## Merkaba (Jul 24, 2011)

Call of Ktulu said:


> Scooby in the video says he does 2 hours. How is that even possible with his muscle size?



God he is nerve wrecking.  Plus he posted about wide pushups for a big chest.  Credibility Gone....he works out and eats well.  Great.


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## BigMuffin (Jul 25, 2011)

HIIT is great but dont be afraid to run 2-3 miles every now and then. Try and beat your time everytime and eventually you will feel like a machine. Your hear is your most important muscle so make sure to condition it for the long haul of life! I never felt better then I did when I was running my ass off in the military. Truly felt like a machine and could go for days.


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## Kathybird (Jul 25, 2011)

What bigmuffin said.  I've tried running at different times and there's no high like a runner's high.  I dunno about the burning muscle thing.  I could run, even at my weight, for an hour easily.  (OK, for most of you my "running" is barely a slow trot.  But I could do it for long periods.)


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## BigMuffin (Jul 25, 2011)

When I ran alot I felt tops. Trust me and Kathybird when we say you wont regret pushing yourself into the runners zone where everything slows down and you can think clear and just enjoy yourself. Running is mostly mental. Do you have what it takes?


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## Kathybird (Jul 25, 2011)

I've wanted to try a half marathon.  It'll be easier with some weight off though.  I plan on starting training for it possibly in the fall for a spring half.  (13.1 miles to the non-cardio around here.)  At my pace it'll take me like 3 hours.  

Did I mention I like barefoot/minimalist running  ?


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## BigMuffin (Jul 25, 2011)

Kathybird said:


> Did I mention I like barefoot/minimalist running  ?


 
Barefoot is awesome! I read a study somewhere saying it is better for you to run barefoot. Im sure I can find it if someone wants to read it. Also Kathy you better jump all over that! Two guys from where I work trained from Sept last year till March this year for a Marathon. 2 weeks out one fo them brok his foot and the other guy had to go by himself (SUX). He finished though. They had a good plan and were running some serious distances in the colder months of Dec/Jan/Feb. I could never go that far lol.


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## ~RaZr~ (Jul 25, 2011)

I have been wanting to try barefoot running. Logically and anatomically thinking about it, our bodies are not designed to have layers of support and motion control. If, by strengthening all the muscles and ligaments in the feet then we could reduce LE pain such as knee, ankle, arch and even lower back pain. 

The only thing holding me back is the fact that I am a severe . Slowly, I have began walking around my place barefoot which actually feels good after doing 12 hour shifts at the hospital.


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## Gissurjon (Jul 25, 2011)

djlance said:


> I have been wanting to try barefoot running. Logically and anatomically thinking about it, *our bodies are not designed to have layers of support and motion control*. If, by strengthening all the muscles and ligaments in the feet then we could reduce LE pain such as knee, ankle, arch and even lower back pain.
> 
> The only thing holding me back is the fact that I am a severe . Slowly, I have began walking around my place barefoot which actually feels good after doing 12 hour shifts at the hospital.


 
you are right, but it has been a looooong time since humans (westerners especially ) walked around barefoot. Unless you live in Alabama of course.

Humans were hunters that ran to catch pray, not sure how much long distance barefoot running the cavemen did.

I personally used to run barefoot every now and then but only on grass never on concrete


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## Calves of Steel (Jul 25, 2011)

cutting bodyfat can decrease muscle mass by reducing resistance  on your legs during the day.


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## ~RaZr~ (Jul 26, 2011)

Gissurjon said:


> you are right, but it has been a looooong time since humans (westerners especially ) walked around barefoot. Unless you live in Alabama of course.
> 
> *Humans were hunters that ran to catch pray, not sure how much long distance barefoot running the cavemen did.*



Good point. I was referring more towards the natives of Africa and South America, even those in the inner parts of Mexico. 

We have been told for years that if you have foot problems, that you immediately need to get some sort of support. However, the actual answer might just be strengthening what we already have.


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## ponyboy (Jul 26, 2011)

I've been barefoot running (Vibrams) for a couple of years, but nothing over about 6-8km.  It took a long time for my feet and ankles to get strong enough to take it, but it really helps you notice your gait problems.  I was a total heel striker before and now I'm definitely better.


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## Gentleman (Jul 26, 2011)

Call of Ktulu said:


> ‪Will cardio burn muscle?‬‏ - YouTube
> 
> What do you guys think? Does it? How much is too much? Discuss.


 
It has not burned my muscles one bit.


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## ~RaZr~ (Jul 26, 2011)

ponyboy said:


> I've been barefoot running (Vibrams) for a couple of years, but nothing over about 6-8km.  It took a long time for my feet and ankles to get strong enough to take it, but it really helps you notice your gait problems.  I was a total heel striker before and now I'm definitely better.



Yea I used to be like that also. Finally got fed up with severe pain and switched up my gait and landing style to a more mid-outer foot land. I think it's called "chi" or "pose" running. Watching videos and doing my own research actually helped me convert.


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## Call of Ktulu (Aug 10, 2011)

How much cardio or intensity is too much and burns muscle is a good question.


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## ~RaZr~ (Aug 10, 2011)

I am thinking anything pushing an hour or more is catabolic. It is recommended that people get 30-45 minutes of cardiovascular activity. Don't quote me though, this was research that I read a few years ago....

Keeping it at 70% of your maximum HR is the best, I believe also.


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## Calves of Steel (Aug 11, 2011)

genetics genetics genetics....genetics. If you've got lower T or GH levels the best you can do is a barely anabolic state and even a little activity will be catabolic. Some people's bodies are way better at preserving muscle than others. If you've got great genetics do whatever you want it'll work. Otherwise moderation is the key.


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## CowPimp (Aug 12, 2011)

Interesting study, but here's the problem with it when trying to apply it to a broader population:

We have no idea how much they ran each day or what intensity they were running.  This certainly matters as indicated by past studies.

We don't know their nutritional status throughout the run.  This clearly has a pretty large impact on changes in body weight and composition.

You have to consider that the results would likely be different if you compared people who were already highly aerobically trained compared to people who had more anaerobic training history.  I think it's safe to assume that these people were highly aerobically trained to even be able to participate in such a run.  Considering some of the known chronic adaptations to aerobic exercise, I wouldn't be surprised if you saw different results in individuals with a more extensive resistance training history.

This is an area that warrants more studying in my opinion.  There seems to be evidence that some atrophy of type II muscle fibers takes place with enough aerobic exercise training.  However, we don't know the dose-response relationship here very well.  I do feel like from what I've read that it takes more volume than most recreational exercises include in their programs, however.


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## SuperLift (Aug 13, 2011)

Lots of interesting information here. I personally don't like running long distances, but nothing gets your heart beating like some HIIT all out sprints.! Now that's a workout! Seems like my entire lower body gets sore for a couple days, hams/calves especially.


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## KelJu (Aug 13, 2011)

Gissurjon said:


> you are right, but it has been a looooong time since humans (westerners especially ) walked around barefoot. Unless you live in Alabama of course.
> 
> Humans were hunters that ran to catch pray, not sure how much long distance barefoot running the cavemen did.
> 
> I personally used to run barefoot every now and then but only on grass never on concrete



Remains of the caveman, Neanderthal, lead scientist to believe that they were big, strong, and fast, but did not necessarily possessing huge amounts of endurance. They had a larger more muscular right arms for thrusting big sticks into big slow animals and a much smaller left arm for guiding the stick. They had longer arms and shorter legs. 

Early homo-sapiens, humans, were smaller, weaker, leaner, taller, and possessed an endurance in moderate to hot climates nearly unmatched in the animal kingdom. The reason for this is in our skin: sweat glands. Endurance comes from all sorts of physical adaptions and sweat glands are our strongest adaptation. Sweat glands allowed humans to track animals for days and eventually run them down due to the fact that they had to stop and cool down periodically while humans did not. Also, the human foot evolved to become a strong shock absorption mechanism. 

It is believed that early humans could run non-stop for days only stopping to sleep and drink. I think this is where the whole barefoot running fad came from. However, these people or forgetting to consider some major facts.

Fact 1: Humans today or much bigger than they use to be, and the human foot was not ever meant to absorb the shock of a 250lb bodybuilding. 

Fact 2: Humans are not active enough to maintain the old high efficiency aerobic systems that are needed to run long distances. 

Fact 3: Our metabolisms are too fast, and our caloric intake is too high. This seems to be at the genetic level, because kids are bigger, taller, and stronger today than they were a generation ago. They may be pussies, but they still have the innate ability to put on muscle faster that their grand parents did. Most evolutionary scientist believe it is due to an abundance of food. 


If you question any of this, just look at the long distance runners from Kenya who are probably closer to their early human ancestors than any other ethnic group. Those fuckers don;t even really train  and they smoke everybody else in nearly every Olympic long distance run.


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## ScottyMac710 (Aug 13, 2011)

KelJu said:


> Remains of the caveman, Neanderthal, lead scientist to believe that they were big, strong, and fast, but did not necessarily possessing huge amounts of endurance. They had a larger more muscular right arms for thrusting big sticks into big slow animals and a much smaller left arm for guiding the stick. They had longer arms and shorter legs.
> 
> Early homo-sapiens, humans, were smaller, weaker, leaner, taller, and possessed an endurance in moderate to hot climates nearly unmatched in the animal kingdom. The reason for this is in our skin: sweat glands. Endurance comes from all sorts of physical adaptions and sweat glands are our strongest adaptation. Sweat glands allowed humans to track animals for days and eventually run them down due to the fact that they had to stop and cool down periodically while humans did not. Also, the human foot evolved to become a strong shock absorption mechanism.
> 
> ...



Agree completely with what you're saying here - and another interesting evolutionary trait among the earlier homo-sapiens was the incredibly decreased level of calorie burning they were able to attain. This is similar to individuals who take part in an intense aerobic program over a long period of time - the body gets better at operating with less fuel. The early homo-sapiens, however were also of those who had evolved to need less food which allowed them to survive for longer periods and travel greater distances with the minimal amount of food (because it was more difficult to get food for them)

in the last paragraph of your post i was reading too fast and thought you were claiming they "smoked everyday" lol .. shocked me a bit until i re-read it and saw you were referring to them smoking the competitors, not plant material


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## Call of Ktulu (Aug 14, 2011)

I don't understand how heavyweight boxers can run up to ten miles a day and be huge, jacked, fast and have ridic endurance. Ie: Mike Tyson for one.


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## laxdude22 (Aug 14, 2011)

HIIT def better than distance!


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## CowPimp (Aug 14, 2011)

Call of Ktulu said:


> I don't understand how heavyweight boxers can run up to ten miles a day and be huge, jacked, fast and have ridic endurance. Ie: Mike Tyson for one.



How many heavyweight boxers do you know that run 10 miles a day?  What is your source of information here?  I HIGHLY doubt that's the case for any kind of majority of boxers.

Also, just because someone is big doesn't mean he's as big as he could be.  There's a difference between large compared to your average fitness enthusiast and large relative to your individual potential.


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## Call of Ktulu (Aug 14, 2011)

CowPimp said:


> How many heavyweight boxers do you know that run 10 miles a day? What is your source of information here? I HIGHLY doubt that's the case for any kind of majority of boxers.
> 
> Also, just because someone is big doesn't mean he's as big as he could be. There's a difference between large compared to your average fitness enthusiast and large relative to your individual potential.


 Rocky Marciano

Top 10 Heavyweight Boxers of All Time | Smashing Post

"About a month before a fight, he???d run 10 miles a day, then 12 to 15 in the last two weeks before the fight."

"He loved to train, as opposed to a lot of boxers these days, and ran 5 miles every day, 365 days a year, up and down the steep hills around Brockton, Mass. He???d sprint up, sprint down backward, forward, with 30-pound weights on his shoes."


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