# Deadlifts, back or legs day?



## davegmb (May 19, 2010)

Okay, so i do my deadlifts on a back day as thats where i feel it burning the most. However, everytime i hear the subject of deadlifts come up on this forum, somebody not mentioning any names cough cough phineas cough lol, always seem to be adament that its a leg excersise and should be on a leg day.
So i wanted to get a consensus on this, and if you all think its a leg excersise, ill move it from my back day replacing it with rack pulls and put deads on my leg day getting rid of the romanian deads.

Basically should i stick or twist?


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## ectomorph141 (May 19, 2010)

I would say deadlifts work 90% back 10% legs.   I hardly feel it at all in my legs and my back gets totally destroyed for at least 3-4 days before I fully recover from deadlifts. Keep it on your back day. 
Dang can you imagine doing deadlifts and squats on the same day?  I would vomit for sure. That would be one brutal workout day.


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## Phineas (May 19, 2010)

Feeling the deadlift primarily or exclusively in the back is common amongst lifters who don't properly understand the lift and/or are performing it incorrectly.

It actually took me over a year before I performed my first properly executed deadlift. It took a lot of research and, particularly, a book on bodybuilding psychology -- from which I learned much about focussing on targer muscles  -- to show me what I was doing in a deadlift. Once I understood the mechanics of the lift my form corrected instantly, and the back fatigue was only an afterthought.

A weight lifting exercise is classified according to the primary muscle(s) worked in the concentric (i.e. positive) porition of the lift -- that is, the muscle(s) actually _contracting_. Contracting is the key word here. At no point during a deadlift do any of the back muscles contract. They are worked a great deal through isometric tension, but that doesn't mean they're the primary muscle. This is the same affect that squats and deads have on abs, or bent-over rows have on forearms, etc.

The primary lifting muscles in a deadlift are the hamstrings and glutes, which comprise the back side of your upper legs/hips. These are the muscles that are actually contracting. 

Therefore, the deadlift can be classified as any of these: lower pull; ham/glute- OR hip-dominant; "legs".

Rack pulls -- though heavier on the back due to the decreased range of motion and focus on heavy loads -- are still a lower pull/ham, glute dominant lift. They're essentially half deadlifts. I see people include these in back programs and conventional deads in leg work. I really don't get it, but to each his/her own.

Ultimately, as long as you're doing them and seeing progress then who cares where you do them. I just argue this all the time because thinking of deadlifts as a back lift is not only incorrect but it will often lead to poor deadlift training, as these lifters overuse their backs during the concentric and tend to round and put a lot of stress on their spine (because with proper form using the hips to pull the weight the back shouldn't feel much stress).


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## Phineas (May 19, 2010)

ectomorph141 said:


> I would say deadlifts work 90% back 10% legs.   I hardly feel it at all in my legs and my back gets totally destroyed for at least 3-4 days before I fully recover from deadlifts. Keep it on your back day.
> Dang can you imagine doing deadlifts and squats on the same day?  I would vomit for sure. That would be one brutal workout day.



Well, considering it's a hip-dominant movement my guess would be you're performing them incorrectly.

I do squats and deads on the same day all the time. I'm currently following Gaz's conjugate strength training program, but here's a typical full-body session I would follow otherwise:

-back squats
-bb bent over rows
-db military press
-deadlifts
-pullups
-incline db chest press

While you may not be able to offer 100% on the second of the two leg exercises you can still condition yourself physically and mentally to give almost the same effort. In fact, I usually don't lift any less on my second leg lift than I would if I hit it fresh.


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## fufu (May 19, 2010)

I consider it a lower body hip dominant movement.  The upper body remains fairly static. You are really just moving at the hips. 

That isn't to say that it won't train your back. All of the muscles of the back help to brace the spine and shoulders under tremendous load. In a programming perspective, it usually makes sense to put deadlifts in with the lower body though. 

Functionally (in terms of movement patterns), a deadlift just doesn't make sense if done on an upper day because the hips are the prime movers. 

Here is an example for someone who trains 4 days a week doing an upper/lower split. 

Monday - lower 
Wednesday - upper (with deadlifts, so functions as a lower as well)
Friday - lower 
Saturday - upper

The above will often prove to be too much lower body training. There are exceptions, but in terms of what I usually see people do, deadlifts belong on lower.


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## fufu (May 19, 2010)

ectomorph141 said:


> I would say deadlifts work 90% back 10% legs.   I hardly feel it at all in my legs and my back gets totally destroyed for at least 3-4 days before I fully recover from deadlifts. Keep it on your back day.
> Dang can you imagine doing deadlifts and squats on the same day?  I would vomit for sure. That would be one brutal workout day.





Phineas said:


> Feeling the deadlift primarily or exclusively in the back is common amongst lifters who don't properly understand the lift and/or are performing it incorrectly.



This may just be indicative of having poor work capacity in the back.


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## lincoln (May 19, 2010)

Forgive the advice from a noob, but I just started doing proper deadlifts and maybe my experience can offer a new perspective. 

I am doing deadlifts on my lower pull days. During the workout I feel it most in my hamstrings, but I do feel a stretch of the lower back. When researching proper technique, I noticed that trainers caution most about back strain from the movement of lifting the bar up from knee level. The best advice I found was to contract the glutes while driving your feet into the floor to straighten your legs, as opposed to leaning back from the waist. Know what I mean?

The day after my lower pull day is a rest day, and I definitely felt some tightness in my lower back and in my quads. Isn't that the purpose of compound lifts like the deadlift, to target multiple areas at once? Finally, if you're structuring your workouts based on upper/lower push/pull, shouldn't it fall on the lower pull day anyway, whether it targets your lower back more or hamstrings?


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## PushAndPull (May 19, 2010)

Personally when I started dealifts I felt it mainely in the back. Once i corrected my form then I felt it in the hams/glutes. My problem, and often the problem with lifts that require great to perfect form, is going to heavy. Pulling with your back during a deadlift will allow to lift much greater weight, but it's *dangerous*. If I felt my back was getting such an intense workout from the lift in comparison to my legs, I would try lowering the weight, check/fix my form, and see how it feels then. It could be that your back is a weak link that needs to be addressed, but it's more than likely your form.


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## davegmb (May 19, 2010)

So far most people seem to believe leg day, know what your saying though ectomorph. Its the intial lift when i feel the pull in my back but then im fine, certainly dont feel it in my back after my knees, just that initial pick up which i always put down to me having long legs and therefore bit more arkward for me. I train with somebody though and im always on at them to check my form which they seem happy with.


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## ceazur (May 19, 2010)

If your a pretty advanced lifter you could go still legged on back day and romanian on leg day. depends on how your weekly schedule looks like but thats just a suggestion


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## Flathead (May 19, 2010)

I do squats on Monday's & Deads on Friday's. I consider both to be part of my leg workouts. JMO


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## aja44 (May 19, 2010)

I agree, DeadLifts should be done on your leg day.  Go to youtube and find some video on proper DeadLift form and practice with lighter weight until you get it right or you will hurt your back.


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## AKIRA (May 19, 2010)

ectomorph141 said:


> I would say deadlifts work 90% back 10% legs.   I hardly feel it at all in my legs and my back gets totally destroyed for at least 3-4 days before I fully recover from deadlifts. Keep it on your back day.
> Dang can you imagine doing deadlifts and squats on the same day?  *I would vomit for sure. That would be one brutal workout day.*



Perhaps one day you can hang with the big boys.


They go on a LEG/LOWER day.


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## Phineas (May 19, 2010)

Just to clarify, this isn't a matter of opinion. 

Regardless of what workout you do them in, DEADLIFTS ARE A LEG EXERCISE. The primary movers of the object are the hamstrings and quads. They work the back secondarily through isometric tension but they don't CONTRACT the back. Exercises which contract back muscles are rows, pullups, chinups, pulldowns, pullovers (some argue this is a pec lift, but it's really a matter of focus if you want it for lats and serratus anterior), etc.

Put them where you want, but just recognize that deadlifts are a leg lift.


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## dsc123 (May 19, 2010)

Deadlifts are a primary exercise for legs and secondary for lower back


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## AKIRA (May 19, 2010)

Phineas said:


> Just to clarify, this isn't a matter of opinion.
> 
> Regardless of what workout you do them in, DEADLIFTS ARE A LEG EXERCISE. The primary movers of the object are the hamstrings and quads. They work the back secondarily through isometric tension but they don't CONTRACT the back. Exercises which contract back muscles are rows, pullups, chinups, pulldowns, pullovers (some argue this is a pec lift, but it's really a matter of focus if you want it for lats and serratus anterior), etc.
> 
> Put them where you want, but just recognize that deadlifts are a leg lift.


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## fufu (May 19, 2010)

Phineas said:


> Just to clarify, this isn't a matter of opinion.
> 
> Regardless of what workout you do them in, DEADLIFTS ARE A LEG EXERCISE. The primary movers of the object are the hamstrings and quads. They work the back secondarily through isometric tension but they don't CONTRACT the back. Exercises which contract back muscles are rows, pullups, chinups, pulldowns, pullovers (some argue this is a pec lift, but it's really a matter of focus if you want it for lats and serratus anterior), etc.
> 
> Put them where you want, but just recognize that deadlifts are a leg lift.



I generally agree with you, but - 

To clarify your clarification, the quads don't serve as a primary mover. It is to my understanding that the hamstrings and glutes are the primary movers in hip extension. The quads are not being loaded to the degree the muscles of the posterior chain are. The quadriceps help the movement to a degree because of the small amount of knee extension involved. It is all about the glutes and hamstrings when it comes to a big deadlift. 


Also, the muscles in the back do in fact contract during the deadlift; they contract isometrically. However, they don't contract while the muscle lengthens or shortens (eccentrically and concentrically, respectively).


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## Phineas (May 19, 2010)

fufu said:


> I generally agree with you, but -
> 
> To clarify your clarification, the quads don't serve as a primary mover. It is to my understanding that the hamstrings and glutes are the primary movers in hip extension. The quads are not being loaded to the degree the muscles of the posterior chain are. The quadriceps help the movement to a degree because of the small amount of knee extension involved. It is all about the glutes and hamstrings when it comes to a big deadlift.
> 
> ...



That was a typo. My bad. Meant to say glutes. If you check my earlier posts you'll see. Thanks for point that out.


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## Phineas (May 19, 2010)

Also, by contraction I mean it in the conventional sense of the word, that being when a muscle shortens and elongates.


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## Phineas (May 19, 2010)

Phineas said:


> Feeling the deadlift primarily or exclusively in the back is common amongst lifters who don't properly understand the lift and/or are performing it incorrectly.
> 
> It actually took me over a year before I performed my first properly executed deadlift. It took a lot of research and, particularly, a book on bodybuilding psychology -- from which I learned much about focussing on targer muscles  -- to show me what I was doing in a deadlift. Once I understood the mechanics of the lift my form corrected instantly, and the back fatigue was only an afterthought.
> 
> ...





fufu said:


> I generally agree with you, but -
> 
> To clarify your clarification, the quads don't serve as a primary mover. It is to my understanding that the hamstrings and glutes are the primary movers in hip extension. The quads are not being loaded to the degree the muscles of the posterior chain are. The quadriceps help the movement to a degree because of the small amount of knee extension involved. It is all about the glutes and hamstrings when it comes to a big deadlift.
> 
> ...



Ahhh, there we go! I feel better. My original post. Typo-free.

I just can't let something think I don't know the mechanics behind the deadlift. I think I've become notorious for pushing that information on newbs, lol.


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## davegmb (May 19, 2010)

okay ive been told, deadlifts on a leg day it is then, at least ill have more energy to do my chin ups now. Unless that is, chin ups are a leg excersise and i didnt know arghhhhhhhh, only joking thanks for the input everyone.


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## davegmb (May 19, 2010)

Phineas, surely you feel the deadlift in your back a bit? Its not like it hurts me for days after or anything, not at all, do feel it hitting my legs but not like romanian deads do and the feeling i get in my back only lasts that day.


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## Phineas (May 19, 2010)

davegmb said:


> Phineas, surely you feel the deadlift in your back a bit? Its not like it hurts me for days after or anything, not at all, do feel it hitting my legs but not like romanian deads do and the feeling i get in my back only lasts that day.



Sure I feel it in my back. But, I feel it a hell of a lot more in my hamstrings.

Not that muscle soreness is indication of workout quality, but the day after intense deads my hams and glutes are sore, not so much my back.


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## davegmb (May 19, 2010)

Phineas said:


> Sure I feel it in my back. But, I feel it a hell of a lot more in my hamstrings.
> 
> Not that muscle soreness is indication of workout quality, but the day after intense deads my hams and glutes are sore, not so much my back.


 
Yeah to clarify, the next day i do feel the burn in my hams and not my back, but on the day itself i feel it more in my lower back unlike rdl's thats why i always feel it would have fitted better on my back day. However, you live and learn dont you and i was clearly wrong on this one so ill give in to the masses.


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## AKIRA (May 19, 2010)

Soreness doesnt mean shit.  In fact, I would say its nothing more than a sign of a weak link perhaps.

For example, if my calves are sore after doing squats, it may not make sense, but considering that the calves now have to support X amount of weight on top of what it normally supports, they could get sore just for keeping a stable base.

So if theyre sore in my example, would you say it goes on calf day?


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## Marat (May 19, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> Soreness doesnt mean shit.  In fact, I would say its nothing more than a sign of a *weak link* perhaps.



This is exactly what I wanted to add. You're lower back is weaker than basically everything else involved and therefore will get sore first. 

Get some GHRs, reverse hypers, and good mornings in --- many individuals' hips and lower backs are very deconditioned.


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## gtbmed (May 19, 2010)

I agree with others - the reason you feel soreness in your lower back is likely that your lower back is a weak link relative to your hamstrings/glutes.

It also depends a lot on your morphology and the way you deadlift.  Different body types create different angles.  Not all of us were meant to deadlift the same.


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## Phineas (May 19, 2010)

gtbmed said:


> I agree with others - the reason you feel soreness in your lower back is likely that your lower back is a weak link relative to your hamstrings/glutes.
> 
> It also depends a lot on your morphology and the way you deadlift.  Different body types create different angles.  Not all of us were meant to deadlift the same.



I might as well add to this.

Soreness can be very random, and therefore shouldn't be used as a gauge of muscular effort.

Tonight my session included:

(1.) Sumo Deadlifts
(2.) DB Military Press
(3.) Unilateral DB Romanian Deadlifts
(4.) Dead Press
*then some minor accessory work

At the end of the session my quads were actually the most sore. Of course they're involved in deadlifts and also act as a support beam in military press but they were never the primary muscle in my session. The hardest they would have been worked was in the Sumo Deads, and they're involved even less on those than conventional deads.

Don't be guided by soreness/DOMS and/or the pump. It's fun as hell to experience, but it doesn't really have any practical training value.


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## AKIRA (May 19, 2010)

Just googled Dead Press to no avail.  What is that?


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## Phineas (May 19, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> Just googled Dead Press to no avail.  What is that?



I got it from Gaz's site (getlifting.info). 

It's like a box squat for bench. You set the safety bars so that they're at the height that when you reach the bottom of your bench eccentric the BB can rest on the safety bars. You pause for 1-2 seconds while maintaining muscular tension against the bar and then push up in a controlled manner. It's intended to strengthen the bottom phase of the concentric on your conventional bench. That's always been my weak point and the reason I never busted my bench plateau going on since last July.

To really get the most out of the lift I set the safety bars lower than I normally bench. The BB is resting about a half inch from my chest. Taking off from that deep is brutal. I got my 3 rep up from last week tonight to 195. On conventional bench 185 was my 10-rep months ago. So you can see how difficult this lift is.

I've also seen them called rack lockouts.


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## gtbmed (May 19, 2010)

Yeah, you can call them rack lockouts, but if you set the pin height low, it's not really a "lockout".

Interesting that you struggle with the bottom portion of the bench.  That's always been my weak point too, but it seems pretty uncommon and it's not a point of emphasis among many powerlifters who usually need to train their lockouts a ton.  It probably has to do with the fact that a lot of these guys are using equipment that helps them a ton during that portion of the lift (which is stupid IMO).

Anything that increases the strength of the pecs/delts is going to help with the bottom of the bench I would think.  Also, dynamic benching with bands is supposed to really help the bottom portion of the bench press.


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## flexbob (May 20, 2010)

Phineas said:


> Just to clarify, this isn't a matter of opinion.
> 
> Regardless of what workout you do them in, DEADLIFTS ARE A LEG EXERCISE. The primary movers of the object are the hamstrings and quads. They work the back secondarily through isometric tension but they don't CONTRACT the back. Exercises which contract back muscles are rows, pullups, chinups, pulldowns, pullovers (some argue this is a pec lift, but it's really a matter of focus if you want it for lats and serratus anterior), etc.
> 
> Put them where you want, but just recognize that deadlifts are a leg lift.



Newbie here.

This is the reason I signed up for this forum. Passion + the search for knowledge through scientific discussion. 

Great work everyone.


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## davegmb (May 20, 2010)

Think im going to switch to the sumo deadllift as im quite tall and when doing the conventional deadlift my back has to get near horizontal to start with which explains why i probably feel it in my back more the legs. With the sumo lift my back will be able to stay more upright reducing the distance i have to travel and should put more emphasis on my legs, which would make it fit more comfortably on a leg day.


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## Flathead (May 20, 2010)

Phineas said:


> I got it from Gaz's site (getlifting.info).
> 
> It's like a box squat for bench. You set the safety bars so that they're at the height that when you reach the bottom of your bench eccentric the BB can rest on the safety bars. You pause for 1-2 seconds while maintaining muscular tension against the bar and then push up in a controlled manner. It's intended to strengthen the bottom phase of the concentric on your conventional bench. That's always been my weak point and the reason I never busted my bench plateau going on since last July.
> 
> ...


 


"Dead Press"? I do something somewhat similar but without utilizing a rack, I just pause for 2sec with the bar on my chest. Would this be considered a Dead Press? I try to workout this movement quite a bit because the first 3" off my chest is where I struggle the most.


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## Gazhole (May 20, 2010)

Flathead said:


> "Dead Press"? I do something somewhat similar but without utilizing a rack, I just pause for 2sec with the bar on my chest. Would this be considered a Dead Press? I try to workout this movement quite a bit because the first 3" off my chest is where I struggle the most.



I would give the dead press a try. Its a lot more comfortable knowing the rack is there.


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## Flathead (May 20, 2010)

I'll have to give it a try. I can see where using the rack would be key, in a situation where there's not a spotter present.


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## Phineas (May 20, 2010)

davegmb said:


> Think im going to switch to the sumo deadllift as im quite tall and when doing the conventional deadlift my back has to get near horizontal to start with which explains why i probably feel it in my back more the legs. With the sumo lift my back will be able to stay more upright reducing the distance i have to travel and should put more emphasis on my legs, which would make it fit more comfortably on a leg day.



No offense, but I usually don't buy the tall guy argument. The only way I can see a deadlift being awkward is if your legs and upper body are disportionate in length, which would make using proper form difficult.

On a proper deadlift your back IS almost parallel to the ground. I'm only 5'9 and my back is near parallel, probably about 15-20 degrees. It's all about learning to pull with hamstrings.

A lot of guys do their deadlifts like a high bar squat, and their back is high up. This makes the lift more like a sumo deadlift and a lot easier because your centre of gravity is much closer to the hamstrings. They don't have to work as hard.


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## juggernaut (May 20, 2010)

During the deadlift, ther body needs to work as a chain, the legs assist in working the weight upward; as it gets to midpoint, the back comes into play as your chest and abs are tight, and as you lockout the at the top, then it is fully glutes, abs, chest, and lats. 

I cringe every time I see a member of my gym doing a deadlift, because a) none of them get low enough,  b) they ALWAYS use their backs pulling the weight upward-literally setting them up for injury, and c), they use the wrong shoes. Most of the time, they use those shitty running shoes. Converse Chuck Taylors are by far the best for this and squats, as well as wrestler shoes.   
It is one of the most effective and brutal exercises to learn but yields incredible results. I did strongman training for 3 months and that is when I truly learned the full power that I actually have in the deadlift. I got 505 off the ground 4 times.


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## Phineas (May 20, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> During the deadlift, ther body needs to work as a chain, the legs assist in working the weight upward; as it gets to midpoint, the back comes into play as your chest and abs are tight, and as you lockout the at the top, then it is fully glutes, abs, chest, and lats.
> 
> I cringe every time I see a member of my gym doing a deadlift, because a) none of them get low enough,  b) they ALWAYS use their backs pulling the weight upward-literally setting them up for injury, and c), they use the wrong shoes. Most of the time, they use those shitty running shoes. Converse Chuck Taylors are by far the best for this and squats, as well as wrestler shoes.
> It is one of the most effective and brutal exercises to learn but yields incredible results. I did strongman training for 3 months and that is when I truly learned the full power that I actually have in the deadlift. I got 505 off the ground 4 times.



I hear ya about the shoes. I still deadlift in my running shoes and I feel I'm not getting the best take off, especially on sumos with the wide stance.


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## juggernaut (May 20, 2010)

Phineas said:


> No offense, but I usually don't buy the tall guy argument. The only way I can see a deadlift being awkward is if your legs and upper body are disportionate in length, which would make using proper form difficult.
> 
> On a proper deadlift your back IS almost parallel to the ground. I'm only 5'9 and my back is near parallel, probably about 15-20 degrees. It's all about learning to pull with hamstrings.
> 
> A lot of guys do their deadlifts like a high bar squat, and their back is high up. This makes the lift more like a sumo deadlift and a lot easier because your centre of gravity is much closer to the hamstrings. They don't have to work as hard.


In this case, the tall guy theory is complete malarky-bullshit. I have a 37 1/2" sleeve and I stand 6'1" at a current 231. I'm not saying I'm a giant but I can pull some good numbers on a deadlift. Squats on the other hand are not my strong suit and feel front squats work for me in a more cooperative way. I will still do the back squat, but I do not enjoy it at all like the deadlift.


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## N_I_C_K (May 20, 2010)

ectomorph141 said:


> I would say deadlifts work 90% back 10% legs.   I hardly feel it at all in my legs and my back gets totally destroyed for at least 3-4 days before I fully recover from deadlifts. Keep it on your back day.
> Dang can you imagine doing deadlifts and squats on the same day?  I would vomit for sure. That would be one brutal workout day.




Trust me when I say he is not joking.....I don't think that was a good idea at all.

But I think straight leg dead lifts are your back and tiny bit legs. Romanian dead lifts work your legs more than straight leg but still works your back. I did Romanian deadlifts and I felt it in my legs. 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


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## juggernaut (May 21, 2010)

In this crude example, it shows how the exercise is supposed to be done. Legs are down to parallel, the chest and abs are tight and straight, pointing up. If your back bends at any given point, you're doing it incorrectly-except when the ass glutes are flexed to stand at the end point.


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## juggernaut (May 21, 2010)

In the RDL=Stiff leg dead, legs are slightly bent, ass sticks out,when coming down and the bar is kept relatively close to the body. Best way to do it is to think of mooning someone. It isnt necessary to go all the way down to the floor, but to activate the hamstrings by pulling against them on the descent.


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## fufu (May 21, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> In this crude example, it shows how the exercise is supposed to be done. Legs are down to parallel, the chest and abs are tight and straight, pointing up. If your back bends at any given point, you're doing it incorrectly-except when the ass glutes are flexed to stand at the end point.



Eh, IMO you don't knee to get your knees to parallel before your pull. 

It depends on individual proportions, but that can be an inefficient pulling position.

I understand 'getting low' to really dig the hips in, but if you go too low it becomes awkward.


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## juggernaut (May 21, 2010)

My ass goes lower than my knees. It's the only way I know how to deadlift now, and no back play whatsoever.


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## davegmb (May 21, 2010)

Due to constant abuse of my tall man deadlift theory lol, i spoke to a friend in the gym today who is big into his cross fit and is a personal trainer too. I got him to look at my deadlift, he squashed my tall man dead lift theory too as hes 6'6" and has no problem doing them. He said my deadlift lift was fine when i was picking the weight up, it was when i was putting it back down again where my technique wasnt the best and where i was probably hitting the back, so he showed me a couple of things like making sure i stick my backside out first before it goes back down again and felt good, so hopefully ill have it nailed down soon.

My squat was apparently spot on though, so im happy with that.


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## Phineas (May 21, 2010)

fufu said:


> Eh, IMO you don't knee to get your knees to parallel before your pull.
> 
> It depends on individual proportions, but that can be an inefficient pulling position.
> 
> I understand 'getting low' to really dig the hips in, but if you go too low it becomes awkward.



I agree that how the lift works depends largely on individual proportions.

I have to say that in most pics I've seen of pro BBers and powerlifters deadlifting their back is pretty close to parallel. This is how I deadlift. Probably at about 15-20 degrees. It makes the hams/glutes work a lot harder, and it feels more comfortable for me, too.


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## DaBeast25 (May 23, 2010)

I found this thread mildly entertaining...seems at least 2 of you know your shit.

Posterior chain exercise*.* <--(note the period ;-) ) 

I dont buy into the thighs being parallel as that is an extremely inefficient way to pull, and it's kind of a pet peeve that people turn it into a squating motion.  

Great exercise though, and when you're hitting it hard enough you're liable to be sore anywhere but it works your posterior chain.


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## Curt James (May 23, 2010)

aja44 said:


> I agree, DeadLifts should be done on your leg day.  Go to youtube and find some video on proper DeadLift form and practice with lighter weight until you get it right or you will hurt your back.



I do deads on "back" day because I'm only working weights on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Only call it _back _day because that's when I do pull ups and seated rows.

Squats are Friday and deads are Monday, but I try to use correct form regardless of the day. No way I'm doing deads and squats in the same workout.


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## MDR (May 23, 2010)

I think the posterior chain exercise definition is by far the most accurate.  The Deadlift works more muscles at once that any other single lift in the gym.  Proper form is key.  If done correctly, they are very safe.  As for what day to perform the lift, it seems to me the question is moot when you start focusing on movements rather than bodyparts.  I squat on a different day than I pull because deadlifting is exhausting (as is squatting), and I do a variety of variations of each lift, so doing them on the same day is prohibitive.  Admittedly, my background is in powerlifting, so when looking at the grouping of exercises for bodybuilding, different end goals might change how you group these lifts.  Everyone has to decide for themselves what you are looking to achieve with your training.  But if you want to be a strong squatter and a strong deadlifter, it seems to me counterproductive to do both movements on the same day.  Just my two cents...


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## DaBeast25 (May 23, 2010)

Just pulled 465lbx1 since my last post, working my way to 500lb!

I've done them on both leg day and back day myself, but it is without a doubt more of a leg "movement"

If you're doing them on a back day just make sure you have a few days in between you leg day.  If you're doing them right it will take away from leg training big time if you group them too close together.


As for you guys talking about pin presses, you should look up what a board press is.  Much better exercise IMO... unless of course your doing the pin press strictly to not end up with a bar stuck on your chest.  You can't do a board press by yourself just need a miniband to wrap around you like a bra-strap.  holds the board(s) there perfect.


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## Flathead (May 23, 2010)

DaBeast25 said:


> Just pulled 465lbx1 since my last post, working my way to 500lb!
> 
> 
> 
> As for you guys talking about pin presses, you should look up what a board press is. Much better exercise IMO... unless of course your doing the pin press strictly to not end up with a bar stuck on your chest. You can't do a board press by yourself just need a miniband to wrap around you like a bra-strap. holds the board(s) there perfect.


 


Good idea, on the miniband w/board presses!!!


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## DaBeast25 (May 23, 2010)

Flathead said:


> Good idea, on the miniband w/board presses!!!


 
double them up and your good to go... works well unless you're really skinny.


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## bigdavetom (May 27, 2010)

lol is dead press were you press the dead lol push press is it


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## Phineas (May 27, 2010)

bigdavetom said:


> lol is dead press were you press the dead lol push press is it



How about once again, only this time in English?


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## JOSEF RAKICH (May 28, 2010)

Squats on leg day.
Deadlifts on back day.

Could not imagine doing squats and deads on the same day.


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## bigdavetom (May 28, 2010)

Phineas said:


> How about once again, only this time in English?


 

 i think he means the push press


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## fufu (May 28, 2010)

JOSEF RAKICH said:


> Squats on leg day.
> Deadlifts on back day.
> 
> Could not imagine doing squats and deads on the same day.



Many people train lower body twice a week which means you can prioritize each lift on a different day.

I do deadlifts and squats on the same day all the time. It can work depending on how you program your workouts.


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## bigback51 (May 29, 2010)

DL`s are a stand alone exercise., they are neither a leg or back ecercise.
 The question is are you performing Sumo`s or using the traditional form? I do strickly sumo DL`s, & like to do them after doing chest. It is extremely difficult to do Deadlifts, and squats, in the same workout.


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## MDR (May 29, 2010)

I think a lot of people who trained and competed in powerlifting in the 80's and 90's focused a lot of attention on the specific lifts and their variables.  I know I was taught to focus on squats on squat day bench on bench day and deads on deadlift day.  A few other exercises were added, but like on our squat days we did nine sets of traditional squats, six sets of high bar squats, six sets of fronts and so on.  The work load was tremendous.  I learned to train under Doyle Kenady, who was a two time world champion and a world record holder in the deadlift.  On pulling days, we pulled, period.  any and all varieties were included.  I pulled in the high 700's and I wasn't even close to being one of the best lifters in the gym.  I also squatted over 7, as did a number of other guys.  A handful over 8.  I think D set the world mark at 903 at the record breakers meet in Hawaii.  Reading some of the other posts just reminded me of how different we trained back then.  Doyle looked like a monster, but he was one of the kindest and most generous people I ever met.  He taught literally dozens of people how to lift weights and train with proper form.  I was just lucky enough to live in the same town as a legend of powerlifting.  He was inducted into the powerlifting hall of fame posthumously about ten years ago.  Really one helluva guy.  Sorry to go on, but I guess all these famous people dying got me to thinking of big D.  It's really rare to find people that talented yet still so down to earth.  That gym and the people in it got me hooked on lifting for my entire adult life.  This forum and the way people share their specific knowledge reminds me of how their was a sense of community amongst the lifters back then.  Very cool stuff.  By the way, that's a picture of D in my avatar, and a quote of his in my signature.  Obviously, he was a huge influence over me as a young lifter after  I turned to powerlifting full time when my college football career was over.  I owe a lot to him and think of his incredible talents often.


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## GregW (May 29, 2010)

i do deads when i do legs for the record


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## Tomi18 (Jun 1, 2010)

I love to do deadlift in my back training.


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