# How can I maintain (some) of my muscle during an injury period



## Pfunkn87 (Feb 21, 2008)

Hey all, new member here, have been lurking for a while.  Ive been working out a fairly High Intensity workout 4-5 times a week for the past year and a half. Recently i suffered a shoulder injury (socket pull, pinched some nerves) and the physical trainer and cardiologist both want me off of it for at least 4-6 weeks. Id like to see that number fall as times go by, but who knows. Basically im off of all the main chest/shoulder routines i go through, thus highly limiting any workouts i can do. 

My diet is good, i have a high protein / moderate calorie intake (2500/3000 when im working out 4-5x weekly, now down to 2000 or so). Im still able to do cardio and curls and such, but nothing chest/shoulder related that puts strain on the shoulder. *My question is: how can i maintain (some) muscle while im not able to train? * Ive never suffered an injury that has withheld me from the gym, so this is all new to me... 

Anyone have any input? Any information would be highly appreciated!! 

Thanks, Eric


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## Big G (Feb 21, 2008)

Um... How'dya come up with a name like P-Funk, Eric? That's a pretty unusual name, huh? I wonder what the chances are of two unrelated people both choosing a name like P-Funk on a small messageboard like this. A kajillion to one maybe?


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## Pfunkn87 (Feb 21, 2008)

Big G said:


> Um... How'dya come up with a name like P-Funk, Eric? That's a pretty unusual name, huh? I wonder what the chances are of two unrelated people both choosing a name like P-Funk on a small messageboard like this. A kajillion to one maybe?



Haha! Ive been on VWVortex.com with pfunkn87 since fall of 04", and AOL with Pfunkn87 since 2001. Im definitly not trying to copy anyone if you are implying that! Again, feel free to check the vwvortex forums for my name if there is any doubt. I have been a consistant user of pfunkn87 as a screen name since i started playing bass in middle school.


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## PreMier (Feb 21, 2008)

i post on fourtitude and the car lounge.  welcome to IM

and REST, just take it easy, keep cals consistant, and protein/bcaa's high. you will be back in no time


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## Pfunkn87 (Feb 22, 2008)

PreMier said:


> i post on fourtitude and the car lounge.  welcome to IM
> 
> and REST, just take it easy, keep cals consistant, and protein/bcaa's high. you will be back in no time



Thanks for the tips, and thanks for the welcome!! Yeah i spend alot of time in the Car Lounge, when i get older and can finally make the move from VWs to Audis, ill be making the move to fortitude too.  

Ive taken 4 days off of the gym now, and today i just have to go in to do some biceps and a bit of cardio, im freakin here!  Ive created an eating schedule to where i eat 5-6 times a day and always include at least 10gs of protein in each meal, with mid day meals having 20-40 gs, cals will always be high as i love to eat stupid stuff like cereal and milk, and fruit.  Im definitly gonna go easy on everything, gotta let it heal 

Thanks again! Anyone else have any input?


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## PreMier (Feb 22, 2008)

how much do you weigh?  you should be eating atleast 1g/protein per/lb


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## Pfunkn87 (Feb 22, 2008)

PreMier said:


> how much do you weigh?  you should be eating atleast 1g/protein per/lb



My current weight is 150~, im not too big, 5'11".  I always thought the 1g per pound was a little high, but i suppose since im not in the gym as much, it would be beneficial to keep the protein higher.  I will be sure to step it up in my meals!


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## stevent (Feb 22, 2008)

I had a shoulder injury before and tried to work around it. It came to the point that i had to stop lifting completely in order for my shoulder to heal. good luck and take the time to work on your diet. keep your protein high so you do not loose muscle.


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## PreMier (Feb 22, 2008)

when lifting i eat 2g per/lb.. if i was sedentary i would do 1g/lb minimum


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## Pfunkn87 (Feb 22, 2008)

PreMier said:


> when lifting i eat 2g per/lb.. if i was sedentary i would do 1g/lb minimum



Im going to make sure i take in at least 150g today, ive had 30g from milk, 55g from my naked protein shake, 20 from my protein powder so far. I will have another 30 at least with the other protein shake to keep up with the bcaas, and then another 30-40 from some seafood tonight.



stevent said:


> I had a shoulder injury before and tried to work around it. It came to the point that i had to stop lifting completely in order for my shoulder to heal. good luck and take the time to work on your diet. keep your protein high so you do not loose muscle.



Thats what ive been thinking; take it easy. Im gonna spend this time to plan a new routine when i get back, as well as working extra hard on the biceps, legs, and cardio.


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## CowPimp (Feb 22, 2008)

Keep your diet in check, do whatever lifting you can like lower body stuff (Be reasonable though, as there is plenty of lower body stuff that stresses the shoulders like back squats), and also do some work for the opposite limb.  There is a carryover effect as far as neurological efficiency is concerned.  It should help you regain your lost strength and size in the injured side when you get back to training normally again.


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## Pfunkn87 (Feb 23, 2008)

CowPimp said:


> Keep your diet in check, do whatever lifting you can like lower body stuff (Be reasonable though, as there is plenty of lower body stuff that stresses the shoulders like back squats), and also do some work for the opposite limb.  There is a carryover effect as far as neurological efficiency is concerned.  It should help you regain your lost strength and size in the injured side when you get back to training normally again.



I was actually debating wether or not i should go in and do such a thing, mainly becuase the arm i injured is my dominant side, so ive always noticed a bit of a size difference (not much, mind you) in the left compared the right. I felt that i could use this time to catch it up, if anything.  Im also using this time to work the lower body, but like you were staying, im going to stick with a workout with zero impact on my left shoulder.  Im starting to feel better, but i think im going to wait until next weekend at least before i try to work the shoulder again.  Ive been hearing too many scenarios in where these shoulder/knee injuries become chronic, and that is something no bodybuilder wants.

Thanks for the input/support guys!


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## Big G (Feb 23, 2008)

Pfunkn87 said:


> Haha! Ive been on VWVortex.com with pfunkn87 since fall of 04", and AOL with Pfunkn87 since 2001. Im definitly not trying to copy anyone if you are implying that! Again, feel free to check the vwvortex forums for my name if there is any doubt. I have been a consistant user of pfunkn87 as a screen name since i started playing bass in middle school.



Seriously... why PFunk? Why not AFuck, BFunk or CFunk?

Does the P stand for something? And why Funk anyway?

It's just sooooo coincidental that there wouldbe two PFunks yet no A,B,C,D,E-Funks around.

Wierd.


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## Witchblade (Feb 23, 2008)

Big G said:


> Seriously... why PFunk? Why not* AFuck*, BFunk or CFunk?


lol @ bolded

 @ rest of post


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## fufu (Feb 23, 2008)

Big G said:


> Seriously... why PFunk? Why not AFuck, BFunk or CFunk?
> 
> Does the P stand for something? And why Funk anyway?
> 
> ...



because P-Funk is band. Parliament Funkadelic. Now go take a valium.






YouTube Video


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## Pfunkn87 (Feb 23, 2008)

Big G said:


> Seriously... why PFunk? Why not AFuck, BFunk or CFunk?
> 
> Does the P stand for something? And why Funk anyway?
> 
> ...



Well you are a moderator so im not gonna get into a battle with you here, but i should at least speak in my defense. Ive been a member of:

AOL since 2001 - member name? - Pfunkn87
VWVortex.com - mumber since 04 - member name? - Pfunkn87

Again, why does this matter? Im not here to copy/pose off of P-Funk, and if i had to break it down to why, its as simple as him being able to kick my ass (he looks ALOT stronger than i feel that i am, plus he is older, so im really the short end of the stick here) So again, im not copying, posing, or mimiking him in any way. If its that serious, check my "screen name crudentials". I played bass since 7th grade, and i played alot of funk music. i can even send you some of my recordings with my (former) band.


Thanks for all the hits guys, i appreciate the support. Its alot easier when you have people tellin ya its all good.


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## Biggly (Feb 23, 2008)

> There is a carryover effect as far as neurological efficiency is concerned



Not just neurological either, I recall reading in treatment of injuries it's been noticed that exercising the good arm can induce minor hypotrophy in the injured limb. 





B.


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## Pfunkn87 (Feb 23, 2008)

Biggly said:


> Not just neurological either, I recall reading in treatment of injuries it's been noticed that exercising the good arm can induce minor hypotrophy in the injured limb.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Really? Im gonna do some reading into that! Yesterday i did biceps and quads, today i rest (i figure its best to do limited workouts period until im good), but tomorrow i might just do that and go get some flys, hammers, and a few dumbell movements in. Thanks for the good tip!


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## danzik17 (Feb 23, 2008)

Yup, unilateral work can be beneficial when you injured yourself.  For example my right leg is currently screwed from not warming up enough while squatting, so I am focusing on pistols and leg presses utilizing my left leg only.


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## Pfunkn87 (Feb 23, 2008)

danzik17 said:


> Yup, unilateral work can be beneficial when you injured yourself.  For example my right leg is currently screwed from not warming up enough while squatting, so I am focusing on pistols and leg presses utilizing my left leg only.



Im planning a hammer/row/fly workout tomorrow for the right side, im feeling better everyday, but i think im still gonna wait an extra week at least before trying any bilateral workouts


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## CowPimp (Feb 25, 2008)

Biggly said:


> Not just neurological either, I recall reading in treatment of injuries it's been noticed that exercising the good arm can induce minor hypotrophy in the injured limb.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting stuff.  Have any links/references with more detail by chance?


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## Biggly (Feb 25, 2008)

Not handily available I'm afraid but something I spotted while looking at how physiotherapists (sp?) treat injuries and promote muscle growth. I just got pissed off with having supplements shoved in my face while trying to learn about this stuff so figured injury and sports doctors might yield some useful info. I really dug into it for awhile as my wife is a uni lecturer and I got to play with her research facilities.

Another handy tip I learnt is that range of motion is bollox, a limb will grow muscle quite happily with up to 15 degrees less motion than normal in each direction, meaning you only need 70% of full ROM. It IS true that you can help induce muscle hypertrophy via stretching the membranes that hold muscle tissue in place - but doing it via straining with heavy weights at extreme lengths of limb extension doesn't strike me as a smart way of doing that. A simple stretch while you're pumped is a damn site safer.

Anyway, back to the subject, the crossover effect seems fairly well-known in such fields. A quickie search brought this up for example:

_Severe ankle injuries can require extended periods of immobilization that adversely affect the strength of the ankle muscles. We have investigated a single-leg strength training program of the muscles surrounding the ankle to determine if it produces a crossover benefit for the contralateral ankle muscles. Twenty subjects without any history of ankle injuries were randomly divided into a control and a training group. Both groups underwent isokinetic testing of the ankle muscles at the beginning and end of an 8-week period. The control group maintained normal activities between the tests. Half of the training group trained the dominant leg only and the other half trained the nondominant leg only for the 8-week period, three times per week. The subjects who trained the dominant leg improved peak torque values by 8.5% in the trained leg and 1.5% in the untrained leg. Similarly, the subjects who trained the nondominant leg improved peak torque values by 9.3% in the trained leg and 3.5% in the *untrained leg*. In contrast, the control group showed no significant change in peak torque, power, or endurance between the initial and final tests. With improvements in peak torque as high as 40% in the trained leg and a crossover benefit of 19% in the untrained leg in eccentric inversion, this strength training technique deserves further investigation in an injured population where the benefits may be more substantial._
The Benefit of a Single-Leg Strength Training Program For the Muscles Around the Untrained Ankle: A Prospective, Randomized, Controlled Study -- Uh et al. 28 (4): 568 -- American Journal of Sports Medicine

Obviously you don't get the full benefit as if you were training that limb but it does seem clear the body somehow seeks to balance the strength and muscle gains across limbs. 

Horomones alone don't explain it as the effect is directly on the opposite limb to that trained, not just an overall muscle gain. Exercising your ankle 3 times a week isn't exactly heavy squats and an anabolic environment. 

The human body is, quite bluntly, fucking amazing, and that we've spent literally thousands of years trying to figure it out and still get surprised is even more so.



B.


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## Biggly (Feb 25, 2008)

Sorry, that wasn't a good example of hypertrophy but certainly does show the strength crossover.

Actually it does seem to be mostly neurological, at least in the shorter term, I did a bit of sniffing about and most studies seem to point to strength increases, not actual hpyertrophy.

Here's a weird one, may be of interest:

Neural Training 1

It seems cardio goes the other way, when peeps were trained on an exercise bike they gained cardio fitness - but only using one leg. Yet switching legs later:

_If that adaptation had truly occurred, it is logical to assume that the subjects should have been able to carry out the submaximal-intensity workout with their other untrained legs and enjoy similarly low heart and ventilation rates. After all, the heart and respiratory muscles are in better shape, right? They should be able to handle a fixed intensity of exercise with equal aplomb, whether that exercise is carried out by a trained or an untrained leg. Well, it didn’t work out that way: when, after their 13th workout, the subjects switched limbs and began pedalling on their untrained legs only, they had to go right back to ‘square one’ in physiological terms. Heart rates shot back up to 180, ventilation soared to 75 litres per minute and lactate once more climbed to 10.5! It was as if the heart and respiratory systems were completely untrained and the 13 previous hard sessions had produced no positive effects whatsoever. _

Curious eh? But off-topic..  This link below suggests that only _high-speed _training has the crossover effect:

SpringerLink - Journal Article

I'll go with Cowpimp and say it's mostly neurological. I did read of some hypertrophy but very minor compared to the crossover effect of nerve stimulation ability. As CP said, it will aid in your training after recovery anyway so bottom line, work the opposing non-injured side, be it nerves or muscle or just nerves, it's gonna help long term.


B.


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## Witchblade (Feb 25, 2008)

I recall reading about the crossover effect being real too. It was very minor though.


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## Perdido (Feb 27, 2008)

Witchblade said:


> I recall reading about the crossover effect being real too. It was very minor though.



I injured my left knee last year & went two months w/o working my left leg, I could barely move it becuase of the pain. So I only worked my right.
Today my left leg is as strong or stronger than my right so I'm convinced it's real.


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## CowPimp (Feb 28, 2008)

Cool links there Biggly.  

I think that second one you posted regarding the people who trained on the exercise bike using only one leg shows the importance of improving neurological efficiency with reference to improved cardiovascular performance, as many are now seeing the benefit of strength training with endurance athletes. 

I think it also goes to show that the adaptations of the various energy systems locally in a muscle are also very important, beyond just the ability of the heart and lungs to supply the body with adequate oxygen.


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## Biggly (Feb 28, 2008)

Indeed  I think there's a reason why bodybuilders look so vascular, more so than can be accounted for simply via low-bodyfat. Just as the nerve connections and function grow stronger it seems the blood and nutrient supply improves, beyond the exercise-induced "pump".

You'd expect the untrained leg's performance to be lower, it's untrained after all. That the heart and lungs reacted as though no "fitness" improvement had ever occurred though is pretty heavy stuff. Seems things are a lot more connected than merely "improved lung function" or "heart health".

Even more curious how it's the opposite of the strength aspect, which is carried over.

It's a weird thing, the human body. Not as weird as our brains and behaviour though... 



B.


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## JailHouse (Feb 29, 2008)

hey pfunkn Im in NOVA also what part do you stay at?


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