# low carb diet



## mike456 (Oct 30, 2011)

going to do a low carb diet.. I would do zero carb, but I feel the carbs give me energy for the workout. What foods should i use to supply the carbs? are whole grains necessary in a diet, or should I just eat vegetables.


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## sassy69 (Oct 30, 2011)

Spend a little time looking at some of the other no carb discussion that are currently at the top of the diet forum. 

Straight "low carb" is not a viable diet. All it means is that you're not going to be providing sufficient energy source for your body's needs.

 You either need to do a carb cycle, keeping out of ketosis, or doing a full-on keto diet where you go into ketosis but do refeeds. Research CKD (cylclic ketogenic diet) or carb cycling / carb rotation.


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## TooOld (Oct 31, 2011)

harryson9890 said:


> The following diet and health program is said to have been developed for the employees of General Motors and is very popular with dieters. This diet Plan allows you to loose upto 5 Kgs, but you will probably gain back some of it. Yet this low carb diet plan leaves you slimmer and glowing. Try and see the difference. For the vegeatrian GM diet visit the link. Remember its easier to follow the diet below with modifications than the one given in the link.
> 
> This plan can be used as often as you like without any fear of complications. It is designed to flush your system of impurities and give you a feeling of well being. After seven days you will begin to feel lighter and full of energy.
> 
> ...



Only two days of meats? Where's the fats?

Oh and the best part "but you will probably gain back some of it."....LOL.


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## Built (Oct 31, 2011)

Excellent idea - no protein for most of this diet means you'll lose weight FAST - a pound of fat stores about 3500 calories but a pound of muscle only holds about 500-600. For the same deficit, you can lose weight six times as fast on low protein! 

Sassy, why don't you think low carb is a viable option? Lots of people are perfectly comfortable on very low carb diets for years.


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## sassy69 (Oct 31, 2011)

Built said:


> Excellent idea - no protein for most of this diet means you'll lose weight FAST - a pound of fat stores about 3500 calories but a pound of muscle only holds about 500-600. For the same deficit, you can lose weight six times as fast on low protein!
> 
> Sassy, why don't you think low carb is a viable option? *Lots of people are perfectly comfortable on very low carb diets for year*s.



Very low carb but not into ketosis? How low carb are we talking? If your body has no sufficient energy source, be it carbs or ketones, its hard to accomplish much of anything.

I was trying to clearly distinguish between "low carb" w/ no refeeds and intending to go into ketosis.


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## LevroneFormula (Nov 1, 2011)

I would limit myself to eating around the workout, especially after.

On non-training days consume your carbs preferably in the morning and stop eating them in the afternoon/evening. Instead, ramp up fat intake and protein in the evening.

BTW that diet posted above, looks absolute crap to me. "special soup" lol, I guess thats only for the very "special" bodybuilders.


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## Built (Nov 1, 2011)

sassy69 said:


> Very low carb but not into ketosis? How low carb are we talking? If your body has no sufficient energy source, be it carbs or ketones, its hard to accomplish much of anything.
> 
> I was trying to clearly distinguish between "low carb" w/ no refeeds and intending to go into ketosis.



Dunno. I've never done low carb where I haven't gone into ketosis. 

???


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## sassy69 (Nov 1, 2011)

Built said:


> Dunno. I've never done low carb where I haven't gone into ketosis.
> 
> ???



It matters how low carb we're talking. W/o anyone actually calling out specific amounts in this thread, many people say they're gonna do a low carb diet and then stay at like 50 g of carbs and then wonder why they are lethargic and their weight loss stalled. Because they are too low carb to actually have enough carb to use for sufficient fueling of their activities, but not enough to go into ketosis actually leverage a ketogenic diet. Its fine if you go 'low carb' but not down ketosis, but you would ideally be doing some sort of a refeed regularly or a carb cycle so you are getting enough carb to run on.


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## Built (Nov 1, 2011)

Odd. And not my experience at all.


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## TooOld (Nov 2, 2011)

Built said:


> Odd. And not my experience at all.



Not mine either.


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## Schez (Nov 2, 2011)

Don't cut out vegetables, they aren't going to impact blood sugar too much and affect results. I'd include vegetables/salad with at least 2-3 meals or you risk getting constipated too. Cut out fruits for the first 2 weeks. Have dairy but only no added sugar, Greek yogurt is a good option. I eat one called Sophie yogurt which has fiber added/no added sugar.  So cut out the refined carbs - sugary/junk foods and 'white' carbs like bread and pasta.


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## sassy69 (Nov 2, 2011)

Built said:


> Odd. And not my experience at all.



Please define "low carb".


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## Built (Nov 2, 2011)

Well, I lost the weight on the Atkins diet originally, which started at 20g of carb (total, including fibre) and crept up the carb ladder 5g at a time until fat-loss stalled (read: until I was eating too many calories because the carbs were making me hungry). Now that I understand it's not just carbs, but total calories that matter (d'uh!) I don't run into these problems - at any carb-level.

When I carb-cycle, I do "under a hundred / over a hundred" and find this very easy to manage. 

I can get into ketosis easily even on a day where I've eaten bagels for breakfast by going for a two-hour hike up The Chief. And I don't run into lethargy or energy problems regardless of the carb level. I do lean out better if I run my carbs low (as in "under a hundred") most of the time simply because it kills hunger better than any other strategy. When I've run a significant deficit for a few weeks, I find my body craving carbs and that's when I do a refeed - I've gotten to where I can do it by feel. But as you know, I don't compete so I'm not on a deadline. If I set a target for a bodyfat level and I don't make it until a month later, it's fine. For a competitor, I can appreciate the rules need to be considerably tighter and there may well be more of an energy problem than I've encountered.


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## sassy69 (Nov 2, 2011)

So this is my point. The OP said "I would like to do a low carb diet. I would do zero carb ...."

Many people don't understand what "low carb" is and will simply choose to cut out all carbs. And then wonder why, after a couple of weeks they have no energy because they are scared shitless of any carbs, but also have no understanding being in ketosis either.

That is the only point I was trying to make. There is an often uninformed approach to "low carb diets" that people completely miss the point on. I was suggesting to the OP to do more research on "low carb" and understand the differences. "Zero carb" gets you nowhere. Therefore you need to either choose to do a ketogenic diet where you can do "zero carb" but need to have the appropriate total cals & fats consideration (as most people tend to ignore fats and usually only think about protein & carbs) and still will need some refeeds in there, OR do include carbs but at an amount MORE then going into ketosis, but if you want to be very judicious w/ your carbs, then do a carb rotation.


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## Built (Nov 2, 2011)

When I did the Atkins diet, I was under 40g of carb daily for about eight months. The lower my carbs, the better I feel. I only ran into trouble when I increased the carbs. And on Atkins, there are no refeeds. 

I'm not sure this ties in with your point or not.







sassy69 said:


> So this is my point. The OP said "I would like to do a low carb diet. I would do zero carb ...."
> 
> Many people don't understand what "low carb" is and will simply choose to cut out all carbs.


I apologize in advance for my pedanticism, but I've never actually known anyone to do "zero" carbs - to do that you'd have to avoid eggs, butter, and other trace sources of carbs. I agree with you though, having seen this many times myself - people don't understand what low carb means, why it works, and just figure the fat will magically melt off for no particular reason as soon as they are eschewed from the diet. They don't realize that ultimately it's cals in, cals out - and of course there's a multi-billion dollar industry hell-bent on keeping this information secret (oh, now I've told you - that means I'll have to kill you...) so the misconceptions are understandable. Anyone reading this who finds this information novel is lucky that you posted it. 


sassy69 said:


> And then wonder why, after a couple of weeks they have no energy because they are scared shitless of any carbs, but also have no understanding being in ketosis either.


See, this is the part that doesn't match my experience. It only became an issue when I got lean enough to see delt veins. While I was somewhat juicy, I had no problems at all. 

Mind you, I understood the need to ensure that most of my calories came not from protein, but from fat. On Atkins, a typical day for me on Atkins might have been 120g protein, 120g fat and maybe 20-30g carb. I'm not a "percentages" gal, but this works out to about 65% of my calories coming from fat and about 5% from carb. In LBM-based figures, this just over a gram of protein and just over a gram of fat per pound lean mass.  

If my fats dropped too low I felt really crummy. I notice this same feeling when I do Lyle's PSMF - on a low-fat, low-carb diet I need refeeds, and crave fat like there's no tomorrow. On high fats, I'd be just fine - even if my carbs were in fact to drop to zero. 


sassy69 said:


> That is the only point I was trying to make. There is an often uninformed approach to "low carb diets" that people completely miss the point on. I was suggesting to the OP to do more research on "low carb" and understand the differences. "Zero carb" gets you nowhere. Therefore you need to either choose to do a ketogenic diet where you can do "zero carb" but need to have the appropriate total cals & fats consideration (as most people tend to ignore fats and usually only think about protein & carbs) and still will need some refeeds in there, OR do include carbs but at an amount MORE then going into ketosis, but if you want to be very judicious w/ your carbs, then do a carb rotation.



I agree completely that anyone trying to diet in any other way than running a modest (<20%) deficit via portion control needs to do some targeted reading. 

The interesting thing to me is just how differently satiety and comfort vary across the population of dieters. 

In general, I like to see people figure out how to find a comfortable maintenance diet before they start cutting; in practice, nobody wants to do this. They just want the weight off NOW, dammit! 

This desire keeps people like us engaged in the endless unpaid support we provide.


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## TooOld (Nov 3, 2011)

My definition of a "low carb diet" is simply an insulin modulation (or maybe control would be a better word) diet.
On days you need more energy; eat more carbs keeping other macro values the same so that what you've consumed isn't pushed into fatcells by insulin. Lower energy demand days would be lower carb days.


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## Merkaba (Nov 3, 2011)

harryson9890 said:


> The following diet and health program is said to have been developed for the employees of General Motors and is very popular with dieters. This diet Plan allows you to loose upto 5 Kgs, but you will probably gain back some of it. Yet this low carb diet plan leaves you slimmer and glowing. Try and see the difference. For the vegeatrian GM diet visit the link. Remember its easier to follow the diet below with modifications than the one given in the link.
> 
> This plan can be used as often as you like without any fear of complications. It is designed to flush your system of impurities and give you a feeling of well being. After seven days you will begin to feel lighter and full of energy.
> 
> ...




The Hell is this shit?


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## .V. (Nov 3, 2011)

mike456 said:


> going to do a low carb diet.. I would do zero carb, but I feel the carbs give me energy for the workout. What foods should i use to supply the carbs? are whole grains necessary in a diet, or should I just eat vegetables.



Meats, especially beef.
Green vegetables (any garden type vegetable)
Nuts and seeds between meals if you are hungry or need more calories.
No grains or anything made from grain.

Don't make the mistake that many make of eating too much protein and not enough fat on this...that is a sure way to fail.  DO NOT AVOID FAT.  

Do this for 5 days then the day before your heaviest day in the gym, add carbs.  Preferably safe starches like potatoes, winter squashes, and a little fruit (if you have a woman in your life that you are intimate with, she'll appreciate the fruit)... carb load the day before your heaviest day right up until your workout the day of your heaviest day.

The lean muscle you build will thank you...the fat you DON'T add will thank you.  

You're welcome.


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## Built (Nov 3, 2011)

^ This.


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## TooOld (Nov 4, 2011)

+1 funny thing is this is the way my parents ate (less the carb loading before workout, because they didn't workout) and no one in my family was ever fat.


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## mike456 (Nov 7, 2011)

.V. said:


> Meats, especially beef.
> Green vegetables (any garden type vegetable)
> Nuts and seeds between meals if you are hungry or need more calories.
> No grains or anything made from grain.
> ...


why no grains? this means no whole wheat or whole grain bread?
what type of bread should i eat?


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## TooOld (Nov 8, 2011)

mike456 said:


> why no grains? this means no whole wheat or whole grain bread?
> what type of bread should i eat?



None at all. Grains being good for you is marketing hype.


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## Moneytoblow (Nov 8, 2011)

.V. said:


> Meats, especially beef.
> Green vegetables (any garden type vegetable)
> Nuts and seeds between meals if you are hungry or need more calories.
> No grains or anything made from grain.
> ...



So ezekiel grains, or oatmeal is bad? When did this come about?


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## mike456 (Nov 8, 2011)

so carbs should only be consumed strictly through fruits and vegetables? no brown rice or any cereals, etc.?


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## 72Monte (Nov 8, 2011)

Built said:


> Excellent idea - no protein for most of this diet means you'll lose weight FAST - a pound of fat stores about 3500 calories but a pound of muscle only holds about 500-600. For the same deficit, you can lose weight six times as fast on low protein!
> 
> Sassy, why don't you think low carb is a viable option? Lots of people are perfectly comfortable on very low carb diets for years.


 

This confuses me because low carb diets are high fat correct ? If a pound of fat stores 3500 calories shouldnt we be cutting out fat instead of carbs ? Sorry if this is derailing the tread im just confused by this.


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## mike456 (Nov 8, 2011)

i am so sick of trying to cut, I am just going to bulk and hopefully I can add so much muscle that the fat will eventually reduce on its own.


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## ExLe (Nov 8, 2011)

mike456 said:


> i am so sick of trying to cut, I am just going to bulk and hopefully I can add so much muscle that the fat will eventually reduce on its own.


 
^^^


I wish that was the case...


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## Moneytoblow (Nov 8, 2011)

mike456 said:


> i am so sick of trying to cut, I am just going to bulk and hopefully I can add so much muscle that the fat will eventually reduce on its own.



Instead of trying to go into drastic measures such as "zero carb", you should focus more on eating basic foods- as the above posters mentioned. It's not rocket science bro, just be sure to get your protein in (1g:1lb of lean mass), and then look at getting your carbs in. Starchy carbs, vegetables.. basically anything that isn't processed. Throw in a little peanut butter, almonds, or olive oil- whatever you prefer and you should be good on fats. Over complicating your diet is a really bad idea, especially if you're just starting off. In a couple months when you discover what foods work best for you, then you could learn about carb cycling, keto, etc. Just keep it simple- you can't go wrong with that.


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## .V. (Nov 9, 2011)

Moneytoblow said:


> So ezekiel grains, or oatmeal is bad? When did this come about?



I'm pushed for time  right now.  I've written some articles that are on my site...but this quy quite honestly did a much better job because he backs his up with research where I only interpret and simplify the research for the uninitiated and those who, unlike us who actually try to eat healthy and train, don't understand nutrition...

He's dead wrong about a few things...but the general guidelines and the grain information are 100% accurate.  Mark's Daily Apple  go do some reading my friend.  His site is full of good info.  Some you will find helpful, some you will not... 

enjoy.


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## latinboy7 (Nov 10, 2011)

Some people just cut carbs in the evening (from 4 or 5pm) and eat in the morning the necessary amount to function during the day. That way you will burn the carbs during the day and avoid any storage during the night


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## Arra (Nov 10, 2011)

.V. said:


> I'm pushed for time  right now.  I've written some articles that are on my site...but this quy quite honestly did a much better job because he backs his up with research where I only interpret and simplify the research for the uninitiated and those who, unlike us who actually try to eat healthy and train, don't understand nutrition...
> 
> He's dead wrong about a few things...but the general guidelines and the grain information are 100% accurate.  Mark's Daily Apple  go do some reading my friend.  His site is full of good info.  Some you will find helpful, some you will not...
> 
> enjoy.


Yep, I'm familiar with Mark Sisson's work, watched him at the Ancestral Health Symposium where he did the "Art of Play" speech.

He more recently did an article about how fermenting/sprouting/soaking grains pretty much takes out the anti-nutrients like lectins (which may contribute to leptin resistance) and phytates, but pretty much said it's tooo much of a hassle to get decent grains. And they're generally devoid of most vitamins, there is no vitamin in grains that isn't in meat or fruit, and probably in a better form. The only paradox is the betaine (TMG to supplement takers) that is plentiful in grains. I now follow Weston A. Price's "Principles of a healthy diet" which emphasizes grass-fed red meats and liver, wild-caught fish, pastured (I get omega-3 variants for cost sake) eggs, butter, fermented/bran-reduced/sprouted/soaked grains, raw dairy, and fruit.

Now, given that when Weston A. Price wrote this diet, he noted every society lived off a diet that was moderate in grains, I think he'd revise his opinion on gluten opiates and probably smack the USDA for still advising to eat most of your diet in grains.

Just my $.02


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## Built (Nov 10, 2011)

latinboy7 said:


> Some people just cut carbs in the evening (from 4 or 5pm) and eat in the morning the necessary amount to function during the day. That way you will burn the carbs during the day and avoid any storage during the night



It works better the other way around. Eat your carbs late in the evening, but not during the day. 

Greater weight loss and hormonal cha... [Obesity (Silver Spring). 2011] - PubMed - NCBI
Obesity (Silver Spring). 2011 Oct;19(10):2006-14. doi: 10.1038/oby.2011.48. Epub 2011 Apr 7.
Greater weight loss and hormonal changes after 6 months diet with carbohydrates eaten mostly at dinner.
Sofer S, Eliraz A, Kaplan S, Voet H, Fink G, Kima T, Madar Z.
Source

The Robert H. Smith Faculty of Agriculture, Food and Environment, Institute of Biochemistry and Food Science, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Rehovot, Israel.
Abstract

This study was designed to investigate the effect of a low-calorie diet with carbohydrates eaten mostly at dinner on anthropometric, hunger/satiety, biochemical, and inflammatory parameters. Hormonal secretions were also evaluated. Seventy-eight police officers (BMI >30) were randomly assigned to experimental (carbohydrates eaten mostly at dinner) or control weight loss diets for 6 months. On day 0, 7, 90, and 180 blood samples and hunger scores were collected every 4 h from 0800 to 2000 hours. Anthropometric measurements were collected throughout the study. Greater weight loss, abdominal circumference, and body fat mass reductions were observed in the experimental diet in comparison to controls. Hunger scores were lower and greater improvements in fasting glucose, average daily insulin concentrations, and homeostasis model assessment for insulin resistance (HOMA(IR)), T-cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, C-reactive protein (CRP), tumor necrosis factor-α (TNF-α), and interleukin-6 (IL-6) levels were observed in comparison to controls. The experimental diet modified daily leptin and adiponectin concentrations compared to those observed at baseline and to a control diet. A simple dietary manipulation of carbohydrate distribution appears to have additional benefits when compared to a conventional weight loss diet in individuals suffering from obesity. It might also be beneficial for individuals suffering from insulin resistance and the metabolic syndrome. Further research is required to confirm and clarify the mechanisms by which *this relatively simple diet approach enhances satiety, leads to better anthropometric outcomes, and achieves improved metabolic response, compared to a more conventional dietary approach.*


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## joesmooth20 (Nov 12, 2011)

I never had much success with low carb plans.  I did tons of beef, plenty of fats, and tons of greens and wouldn't lose any fat, weight, or make really any gains.  It was also a pain in the ass to keep up with.  "Burn the fat feed the muscle" would give you plans that will work better and even "body for life" gave me better results.  If your lazy like I am and don't care to spend a million hours researching the endless options for dieting, then google search either one of those books and save your self a lot of headache.


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## Built (Nov 12, 2011)

Now that's interesting, joesmooth. I couldn't drop anything on bffm or bfl - I'm just too hungry eating that way. Atkins was the first diet I ever tried that worked. Kept me feeling fed on fewer calories - and if you eat less than you need, you lose. Pick a way to do it that doesn't make you crazy.


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## mljoshua (Nov 15, 2011)

sassy69 said:


> Spend a little time looking at some of the other no carb discussion that are currently at the top of the diet forum.
> 
> Straight "low carb" is not a viable diet. All it means is that you're not going to be providing sufficient energy source for your body's needs.
> 
> You either need to do a carb cycle, keeping out of ketosis, or doing a full-on keto diet where you go into ketosis but do refeeds. Research CKD (cylclic ketogenic diet) or carb cycling / carb rotation.



Absolutely right - 'low carb' is not the way to go because you won't be able to keep up the energy for good workouts.


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