# help with ab routine.



## thorough (May 29, 2009)

ill post a pic for reference. my bodyfat is low enough to see my ribs but i just cant get the lower 4 abs as cut as i would like. ive been hitting my abs good twice a week with varied movements. only in the past year has my BF percentage got low enough that ive put extra effort into my ab routine. i havent noticed much change at all in 6 months besides leaning out just a tad. ive changed up the routine a bit. ive only started hitting abs twice a week for the last couple months but prior i was hitting them good at least once a week with varied cable crunches. hanging reverse crunches. planks. etc.

my current routine.

lying leg raises. once a week with incline. once flat. failure is about 20 reps
Bicycles. twice a week till failure.(about 50 reps) 
the machine that is supposed to work the lower abs once a week with heavier weight and lower reps. 

im always sore for at least a day afterwords and i feel the burn on my lower abs quite a bit. they just seem really hard to stimulate. my upper abs are almost awkward looking since they are much more visable. i can pinch a small amount of stuborn fat on lower stomach but my abs will still look strange even if i got to a lower bf percentage. sparing all the details of my diet lets just say ive progressed from the 5 meal a day>keto>CKD>TKD>PMSF. i am now lower and leaner than i have ever been.
any advice on routines?


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## Yanick (May 29, 2009)

You need to lose the fat around the midsection to see abs. No amount of ab work is going to do it.

Train core for function

Diet for the six-pack.


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## thorough (May 29, 2009)

i feel like you only read the thread title.


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## Yanick (May 29, 2009)

Lol you edited the part about the diet in...I read, a lot and well and you didn't mention anything about diet the first time I read your post (but if you did and I overlooked it, I apologize).

Nevertheless, my point stands. Whatever you've been doing to doing for the past 6 months, diet wise, has not been working. You can do leg raises until you're blue in the face then superset them with cable crunches until you pass out from cerebral anoxia and you still won't see your abs until you lose the fat.

Abs=Diet, no two ways about this.


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## Built (May 29, 2009)

^ he's right. 

Abs are made in the kitchen. I rarely work abs unless I'm bulking. When I DO train abs, it's 3 sets of 8 weighted crunches once or twice a week, if I remember. 

Read "daredevils are shredded" and I suggest UD2.0 to finish leaning out. You won't achieve the look you are after from this direct ab work. It's unweighted and high rep, and besides you're cutting.


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## thorough (May 29, 2009)

I love your blog built! ive actually read the entire thing. i use the abs made in the kitchen phrase all the time as well. I read the UD2 diet and the diet part i can do but those depleation workouts just kill me. also very hard to work around my work schedule that is kind of a 4 days on 3 days off type of schedule. you gus making me feel fat... what would you guess my BF percentage at? i feel like its pretty damn low. my ribs are really visable and i my obliques are visable. I understand that i have a little fat to loose but i feel that my lower abs need development regardless. you know what im saying?
these last fat deposits are gonna require drastic measures. ive lost over 30 pounds in two years...


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## Built (May 29, 2009)

You aren't going to develop ANY of your muscles. You are on sub maintenance calories. Muscles are not made from air. 

Sorry.


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## thorough (May 29, 2009)

your right. i should bulk to get my six pack. end of thread im going bed.


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## Merkaba (May 29, 2009)

Wrong.  You bulk and youre gonna gain size, and some fat.  You bulk, THEN cut to get your six pack. Figure out first if you want to get smaller or bigger for the next few months.  Then you'll know what to do.  I'm a fan of direct intense ab work while bulking.

When i first saw your pics my first thought was EAT.  But it depends on what you want to do , again, get bigger or smaller ...??


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## Perdido (May 30, 2009)

Your abs already look out of proportion to the rest of your body to me.
I could be wrong on this but it looks like working abs hard while on the diet you are on appears as though you are sacrificing the rest of your LBM of the sake of a six pack.


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## thorough (May 30, 2009)

So your saying my abs are too bulky for the rest of my body?my genetics are to consider as well.

Can u gain a slight bit of mass on a ckd?


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## Built (May 30, 2009)

thorough said:


> your right. i should bulk to get my six pack. end of thread im going bed.


I know you were just tossing this off as an angry statement, but yes. 

While bulking, you train abs heavy and hard, to build them up, just like every other muscle. 

When you cut, you drop the fat and they show up as your "six". 



thorough said:


> So your saying my abs are too bulky for the rest of my body?my genetics are to consider as well.
> 
> Can u gain a slight bit of mass on a ckd?



I think he's saying abs look like all you have left. 

What you are doing will NOT give you the results you seek. I do very little direct ab work - more while bulking, less while cutting.


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## thorough (Jun 2, 2009)

yeah i was kind of tossing that around. it was late and i was bit tired. my bad. i think i am going to attempt to do a slow bulk. ive tried searching but i could use a little help. i will increase my cals to 15 cals per pound of lean mass(about 2100). Im going to dig further on training as well. thanks for the advice all.


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## Whatsaroid? (Jun 2, 2009)

thorough said:


> yeah i was kind of tossing that around. it was late and i was bit tired. my bad. i think i am going to attempt to do a slow bulk. ive tried searching but i could use a little help. i will increase my cals to 15 cals per pound of lean mass(about 2100). Im going to dig further on training as well. thanks for the advice all.



PM sent


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## juggernaut (Jun 2, 2009)

thorough said:


> Can u gain a slight bit of mass on a ckd?



Allow me to answer this question; it's a good one. I went on Mdrol a month or so ago and kept my carbs reeeeally low on purpose. My fats skyrocketed almost to 200g a day. My protein was about 325+ or more. I only allowed 1 free meal a week; sort of like being on a catergory 2 PSMF. I gained 22 lbs, some of it being fat and water, but when I tell you I gained some great weight, it also happened to be when i was coming off a cut to about 9% BF. I blew up. My carbs really never hit 50g a day, except when I went to a free meal which usually consisted of a veggie pizza-which I miss now, since I am doing a PSMF.

Hi Built


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## Whatsaroid? (Jun 2, 2009)

juggernaut said:


> youtube of Built doing RDLs
> 
> Hi Built



LMFAO, why do I want to see this to? 

Oh back to thread


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## juggernaut (Jun 2, 2009)

because you believe in using the right form, and we need to have the right reference as to how to perform the RDL properly. This would be very nice of her to do this, so many of us need to be well informed.


Many guys will burn holes in their eyes to see this.


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## juggernaut (Jun 2, 2009)

back to topic


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## T_man (Jun 2, 2009)

juggernaut said:


> because you believe in using the right form, and we need to have the right reference as to how to perform the RDL properly. This would be very nice of her to do this, so many of us need to be well informed.
> 
> *
> Many guys will burn holes in their eyes to see this.*



just for the form... nothing else.....


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## thorough (Jun 2, 2009)

i wouldnt mind seeing that video as well 
what would you guess my BF at btw? my gym doesnt have calipers all they have is the electronic one that said my bf was at 8%. 

with my calories up what movements would you recommend for my awkward abs?


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## T_man (Jun 2, 2009)

definately not 8%. you see abs at 8%. the electric ones vary depending on how much water you've retained etc. It said once at the beginning of a workout i was 13% and at the end i was 15%


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## Built (Jun 2, 2009)

Okay, okay, I'll try to get a vid up. 

Sheesh!


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## Whatsaroid? (Jun 2, 2009)

Built said:


> Okay, okay, I'll try to get a vid up.
> 
> Sheesh!



Wow, your so on my christmas list


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## juggernaut (Jun 3, 2009)

Built said:


> Okay, okay, I'll try to get a vid up.
> 
> Sheesh!


you have given me the will and inspiration to continue being a man. Thank you.


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## juggernaut (Jun 3, 2009)

oh and Built, remember that we need video from all angles, as it the unseen angles that are very important and dare I say, CRUCIAL to form.


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## juggernaut (Jun 3, 2009)

think I hijacked another thread.


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## ygbodybuilder10 (Jun 3, 2009)

well this is what i do for my abs, i do maby 3- 4 excersise and do all of them with no rest, once i'm done with one set of a excersise i move to the next one, that gets the abs tight and works them better to be


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## thorough (Jun 3, 2009)

juggernaut said:


> think I hijacked another thread.


i dont think anyone will mind.  

maybee this should go in health and nutrition but since i already posted pics of my scrawny ass i figured why not.

here is is my new diet which isnt much different than before except for a increase in cals. im ok with being strict and the only subs i will make will be the meat. if its a bit fatty i can reduce portion and adjust. I weight 153 today so based on the 15-18 cal per BW i would be eating between 2295-2754 cals per day. i will also consume my 6 grams of fish oil and multi(tried 10 g of fish oil for a couple months and 6 grams doesnt feel any different to me)
what should i adjust? the wine would not be an everyday thing. maybee every other.






I also need to find good info on bulking routines. alot of searching to do...


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## Perdido (Jun 3, 2009)

thorough said:


> I also need to find good info on bulking routines. alot of searching to do...



It's all right here: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/training/60741-designing-training-routines-cowpimp.html

I prefer the split routine myself. No need to complicate things really. All good info there.


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## Built (Jun 3, 2009)

At 153 lbs, you have what, 130-140 lbs LBM? 200g protein is fine, no need to go up to 300g unless you really love it this high. Maybe a bit more carb - you carb intolerant or something?


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## vader (Jun 3, 2009)

hey Built, where's the vid of your stiff legged deads? we are waiting


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## Built (Jun 3, 2009)

Maybe I'll do it at end-of-cut... or 130 lbs anyway. 

I'm just hovering at 140 right now. Could be a while...


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## P-funk (Jun 3, 2009)

why don't you guys ever ask for a video of me doing stiff legged deadlifts?

patrick


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## thorough (Jun 3, 2009)

Built said:


> At 153 lbs, you have what, 130-140 lbs LBM? 200g protein is fine, no need to go up to 300g unless you really love it this high. Maybe a bit more carb - you carb intolerant or something?



i would hope closer to 140.what would you guess my LBM is? i actually just based those figures off my weight. maybee i should re adjust?

I was thinking of lowering my protein actually and raising my carbs a bit. maybee a little more oatmeal or a sweet potato.

how much weight gain is too much when bulking? if i notice im gaining excessive fat should i lower cals a bit?

built, what kind of weighted crunches do you do and why wait till end of cut?im sure you dont have any dimples or anything ( :


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## Built (Jun 3, 2009)

Aim to gain a pound a week at first, and keep your eye on the mirror and on your tummy. You get too fat too fast, back it off and let your muscles catch up. 

I don't do crunches at all by the end of my cut - I do more ab work while bulking, to build the muscle up (just like all the other muscles, they need food to grow!)

I do weighted crunches laying back over a bosu ball, with a dumbbell sitting upright on my upper chest. 3x8, heavy as I can.


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## juggernaut (Jun 4, 2009)

P-funk said:


> why don't you guys ever ask for a video of me doing stiff legged deadlifts?
> 
> patrick


you want me to answer that?


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## Built (Jun 4, 2009)

P-funk said:


> why don't you guys ever ask for a video of me doing stiff legged deadlifts?
> 
> patrick



I'll ask - you've got booty!


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## P-funk (Jun 4, 2009)

well, at least someone is asking!! 

patrick


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## Built (Jun 4, 2009)

Yep, you're an old married man, but you've still got it.


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## juggernaut (Jun 4, 2009)

sez you. Built, you cant compare. If I die tomorrow-two things I have to see before that comes; the sistine chapel and your video.


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## T_man (Jun 4, 2009)

P-funk said:


> why don't you guys ever ask for a video of me doing stiff legged deadlifts?
> 
> patrick



i dont see tallcall in the training section that often, thats probably why

maybe chobby can help u out


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## nkira (Jun 4, 2009)

Patrick, I (May be We) want to see you doing stiff legged deadlifts.

Btw I read your "Don't Let the Knees Pass The Toes & Other Squatting Myths" article, cool video.

How come your name does not show up here? Author - Articles by on Bodybuilding, Diet, Nutrition and Supplements

It's much faster to find article by Writer Name.



P-funk said:


> why don't you guys ever ask for a video of me doing stiff legged deadlifts?
> 
> patrick


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## juggernaut (Jun 4, 2009)

Patrick is too modest. He writes a great book and cant show his head in public.


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## P-funk (Jun 4, 2009)

nkira - I don't know why my name doesn't show up there? Neither does, Built's?  That is strange.

Jugg - Thanks.  Since you have the book, you already have a photo of my ass while doing an RDL....no need to sweet talk me.  You already have the goods.

patrick


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## nkira (Jun 4, 2009)

Bug? Prince needs to know then.



P-funk said:


> nkira - I don't know why my name doesn't show up there? Neither does, Built's?  That is strange.
> 
> Jugg - Thanks.  Since you have the book, you already have a photo of my ass while doing an RDL....no need to sweet talk me.  You already have the goods.
> 
> patrick


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## P-funk (Jun 4, 2009)

yea, maybe we should make him aware...

I have like a 3 or 4 part piece coming out over the next few weeks on how to establish 4-week blocks of training and manipulate the variables to reflect your goals.

patrick


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## nkira (Jun 4, 2009)

I just PM'ed Prince....


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## juggernaut (Jun 4, 2009)

P-funk said:


> Jugg - Thanks.  Since you have the book, you already have a photo of my ass while doing an RDL....no need to sweet talk me.  You already have the goods.
> 
> patrick


I try to block it out of my head as much as possible and would rather have a video of Built's instead.


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