# What other supplements will help me build muscle mass quick!!



## dsc123 (Apr 11, 2010)

I train 3-4 times a week have a good balanced diet and taking 100% pure ethyl ester creatine, any opinions on protein shakes, testosterone boosters and steroids to build muscle and tone quick much appreciated


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## Marat (Apr 11, 2010)

Nothing comes quick. You need time and consistency.


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## Built (Apr 11, 2010)

Are you gaining weight?


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## dsc123 (Apr 11, 2010)

ive put on half a stone in 2 months, is this enough?


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## PanterA (Apr 11, 2010)

Immediately drop the ethyl ester creatine and start taking cheap cretine mono. Ethyl ester creatine is 100% inaffective/worthless. Guys who know their shit were saying this, or at the very least it's less affective, before it was proven.


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## Built (Apr 11, 2010)

You're gaining weight and you seem to like the creatine, so that's good. 

Is your training built around heavy compounds, such as free, below-parallel barbell squats, deadlift variants, bench pressing, heavy rows, chins and olympic lifts?

If this is how you train, you're eating enough to ensure weight gain, and seeing consistent gains, you're good. Other than what you are currently taking, there isn't a supplement in the world that will do more for you at your age. 

If your training is mostly built around isolation movements, using a bodypart split (ab day, arm day, chest day...) and you mostly use machines, there isn't a supplement out there that will help you overcome your crappy training. 

If you're not sure about your workout or your diet, read the link in my sig on "getting started" to be sure you indeed did get started the right way, and then start a journal, post up your current routine and diet, your height and weight, measurements and or pix and we'll offer suggestions on how to improve.


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## dsc123 (Apr 11, 2010)

thanks for replys, my training is focusud on monday-chest tuesday-back thursday-arms fri-shoulders and abs on random days during the week. i mainly free train and rairly use machines. have you any experiance with the molecular nutrition x-factor? because this looks very interesting?


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## dsc123 (Apr 11, 2010)

also sorry one more question, is there a specific protein powder that you recommend?


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## Robalo (Apr 11, 2010)

dsc123 said:


> thanks for replys, my training is focusud on monday-chest tuesday-back thursday-arms fri-shoulders and abs on random days during the week. i mainly free train and rairly use machines. have you any experiance with the molecular nutrition x-factor? because this looks very interesting?



No leg day?


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## dsc123 (Apr 11, 2010)

i dnt have a day tht i train my legs i normally just do a few machines on the day tht i do biceps and triceps


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## theCaptn' (Apr 11, 2010)

No legs training is a crime. You want to look like a potato with toothpicks for legs?

Try this routine instead:

Mon: Legs and shoulders
Wed: Chest and Bi;s
Fri: Back and Tri's
wkend cardio and abzzz

also make sure you jerk off at least 4x/wk or more. Keeps your tests levels elevated.

GICH!


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## PanterA (Apr 11, 2010)

Jerking off is very important. Not too long ago I was training everything twice a week, and I was doing;

chest shoulders traps
back and tris
bis and legs

I liked it but one thing to point out is I do minimal work for my shoulders because they respond way better than everything else. If your shoulders suck and need extra or even = attention, that day could realy suck...


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## FMJ (Apr 11, 2010)

CaptRichArund said:


> No legs training is a crime.


 
Agreed. Heavy squats are more important to a training routine than any other movement. Squats make every other part of your body grow due to the excessive GH released while doing them. Forget about dedicating an entire gym day to working arms or shoulders. These muscles are tiny in comparison to quads or lats. 
Big muscle groups + big compound moves = big muscle gains!


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## Built (Apr 11, 2010)

Oooh you're doing an isolation/bodypart split. 



Built said:


> If your training is mostly built around isolation movements, using a bodypart split (ab day, arm day, chest day...) and you mostly use machines, there isn't a supplement out there that will help you overcome your crappy training.



Fix your workout. The one you're doing won't get you very far.


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## Robalo (Apr 12, 2010)

Stick to the essentials known to build mass: Squats, deadlifts, bench press...
With supplements go with some whey, casein, multivit, vit C.
Tune up your diet. You have 3 important points tha you must pay atention in order to grow: *DIET, TRAINNING, REST*

This will give you a good help


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## ectomorph141 (Apr 12, 2010)

dsc123 said:


> i dnt have a day tht i train my legs i normally just do a few machines on the day tht i do biceps and triceps


You need to work legs for sure but work them with another muscle group. Working legs is a MUST. Also as mentioned above, you need to change your workout routine.
What is your weight and bodytype?  Are you small and thin and want to bulk up or are you overweight and want to put on muscle and lose the fat??
This is what works for me.

Tues - Chest and Triceps
Wed - Biceps and Back
Friday - Shoulders and Legs

Make sure you are doing dips,  squats,  wide grip pull ups, pull ups, and deadlifts.   Those will help put on a lof of mass.    Hack squats also work very well if you dont have a spotter or a squat rack.


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## Built (Apr 12, 2010)

ectomorph141 said:


> You need to work legs for sure but work them with another muscle group. Working legs is a MUST. Also as mentioned above, you need to change your workout routine.
> What is your weight and bodytype?  Are you small and thin and want to bulk up or are you overweight and want to put on muscle and lose the fat??
> This is what works for me.
> 
> ...



Fixed.


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## ectomorph141 (Apr 12, 2010)

Built,
The close grip you corrected is that for more focus on the arms?   Does the close grip also work really well for the back?   I was always under the impression the wide grip is the best for working the back.  I want to make sure we are on the same page to avoid any confusion.  I know wide grip is much more difficult for most people, including myself. 
And yes eating enough is very important.  Its usually the first thing I suggest, I am surprised I forgot to add that.


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## dsc123 (Apr 12, 2010)

im 5ft 10 currently weighing 11stone, im looking to cut and bulk. ive started to up my daily caleries and will definatly start to train my legs more, and start doing close grip pull ups and dips at the start off each training session? i had been taking a impact whey protein but doesnt seem to be helping at all, is there another protein shake you can recommened me?


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## FMJ (Apr 12, 2010)

ectomorph141 said:


> Built,
> The close grip you corrected is that for more focus on the arms? Does the close grip also work really well for the back? I was always under the impression the wide grip is the best for working the back.


 
Close grip is for your lats too. I think Built corrected the wide grip because that movement has been shown to cause shoulder injuries. More harm than good.


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## ectomorph141 (Apr 12, 2010)

FMJ said:


> Close grip is for your lats too. I think Built corrected the wide grip because that movement has been shown to cause shoulder injuries. More harm than good.


OH thats great information for sure.  I will be setting up a pull up bar in the garage very soon but if the wide grip is bad then I will set it up with a close grip instead.  So with the close grip how exactly do I hold my hands, arms??  I want to make sure and set this up the correct way.  Any pics or info would be helpful.  There are so many different ways to workout and I want to make sure I do it right.


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## Built (Apr 13, 2010)

Any grip no wider than shoulder is fine. Overhand, underhand, neutral - they're all good. Wide grip is harder because it takes some of the force off the lat and places it awkwardly on the rotator cuff. Some folks are fine with these, but there's no benefit to be had from going wide so if you find it harder to do/more painful, ditch them with our blessing.


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## ectomorph141 (Apr 13, 2010)

Built said:


> Any grip no wider than shoulder is fine. Overhand, underhand, neutral - they're all good. Wide grip is harder because it takes some of the force off the lat and places it awkwardly on the rotator cuff. Some folks are fine with these, but there's no benefit to be had from going wide so if you find it harder to do/more painful, ditch them with our blessing.


Thank you for the reply.  Thats actually great news. 
I have always had a hard time with the wide grip so now I can just set my garage up with something different instead.  But I need some sort of pull up bar for sure. Not getting a good back workout at all right now.


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## Built (Apr 13, 2010)

You can use the squat rack - set it up so your eyes are at level with the bar when you're standing on a low bench. 

Do 'em weighted; lower under control for a count of five and then self-assist with your toes on the bench to get back to "up" as required. 

Try five sets of five of these. Eventually you'll be strong enough to do them unassisted.

Then increase the weight.


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## ectomorph141 (Apr 13, 2010)

Thats the problem I dont have a squat rack. I barely have room for a bench.  I (we) workout in a 7' x 7' x 7' room.  I will need to set up something in the garage for back workouts for sure like a pull up bar setup. Its my only option due to lack of space.
In case you were wondering,  for squats I have been doing hack squats.  Those actually work very well.  Dont need a squat rack and dont need a spotter.


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## Built (Apr 13, 2010)

Hacks are the shit! So are front squats, Bulgarian split squats, and if you like, Olympic bar corner squats.


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## Gazhole (Apr 14, 2010)

Don't forget Goblet Squats as a light alternative! Good for high reps.

Jefferson Squats are also very tough.


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## dsc123 (Apr 14, 2010)

I've just had a look at the get lifting site and am thinking of starting the 20 rep squat workout, is this a gd idea?


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## PushAndPull (Apr 14, 2010)

ectomorph141 said:


> Thank you for the reply.  Thats actually great news.
> I have always had a hard time with the wide grip so now I can just set my garage up with something different instead.  But I need some sort of pull up bar for sure. *Not getting a good back workout at all right now*.



Buy one of those door jam pull-up bars, cheap and effective.


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## ectomorph141 (Apr 15, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> Buy one of those door jam pull-up bars, cheap and effective.


I looked at one of those door jam pull up bars at GNC over the weekend.  I think it was around $30.00.   So they really work? They are really effective?  It looked very generic.  I guess I could give it a try and if I dont like the results, I could just bring it back for a refund.  Yesterday was back day again and I need something bad.  I will pick one of these up over the weekend and try it out.


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## PushAndPull (Apr 15, 2010)

ectomorph141 said:


> I looked at one of those door jam pull up bars at GNC over the weekend.  I think it was around $30.00.   So they really work? They are really effective?  It looked very generic.  I guess I could give it a try and if I dont like the results, I could just bring it back for a refund.  Yesterday was back day again and I need something bad.  I will pick one of these up over the weekend and try it out.



They work great. The only complaint I have is the pull-up width, my natural grip is right where the the bar attaches, so I have to go a little wider than I normally would, not a big deal. The width for the chins and parallel grip is perfect. For the price, you can't beat it.


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## PanterA (Apr 15, 2010)

Built said:


> Any grip no wider than shoulder is fine. Overhand, underhand, neutral - they're all good. Wide grip is harder because it takes some of the force off the lat and places it awkwardly on the rotator cuff. Some folks are fine with these, but there's no benefit to be had from going wide so if you find it harder to do/more painful, ditch them with our blessing.


 
Wide grip focuses more on the upper tie in part of the lats as well. I hear people saying close grip focuses more on the lower, but personally I just feel it from top to bottom... I find it's best to go all the way down to lock out to realy stretch the lats (I like to keep a lot of lifts in the sweet spot for constant tension, but not chins). I usually hold the stretch for a count or two, and then go all the way back up untill my chin clears the bar, controlling the negative on the way back down.


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## Built (Apr 16, 2010)

That's funny. I do the opposite, keeping tension on the lift and trying NOT to lock it out. I'm not sure but I think it annoys my shoulder when I let myself drop all the way down. 

Not convinced about the tie-in thing with wide grips PanterA; seriously I can't think of any good reason to do 'em with a wide grip, unless it just happens to be how your weird personal geometry works out I guess.


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## PanterA (Apr 16, 2010)

Besides the shoulders, that's where I feel wide grip uplldowns is just under the arm pit, and I have heard others say this. I see pics sometimes where guys lats flare out way up high (doing a dbl biceps pose) and I have always felt they most likely do wide grip pullups/downs a lot. 

Like I said though, guys also say close grip focuses more on the lower lats, but I feel it top to bottom...


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## Built (Apr 16, 2010)

Everybody's body is angled a little differently. If they work for you, keep 'em going. 

As an aside, if your shoulders ever bug you from 'em (or from any movement) - stop immediately and change your grip or do something else. You'll miss your rotator cuffs when they gone. 

Trust me on this.


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## ectomorph141 (Apr 21, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> They work great. The only complaint I have is the pull-up width, my natural grip is right where the the bar attaches, so I have to go a little wider than I normally would, not a big deal. The width for the chins and parallel grip is perfect. For the price, you can't beat it.


I bought one of those doorway pull up bars yesterday for $30.00 and assembled it.  Tonight is Bicep / back so I get to try it out tonight.    I tried it a little last night and it seems a little flimsy but I might get used to it.   I will need a chair or something under me for sure until I get strong enough to do an entire set on my own.


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## PushAndPull (Apr 21, 2010)

ectomorph141 said:


> I bought one of those doorway pull up bars yesterday for $30.00 and assembled it.  Tonight is Bicep / back so I get to try it out tonight.    I tried it a little last night and it seems a little flimsy but I might get used to it.   I will need a chair or something under me for sure until I get strong enough to do an entire set on my own.



I never found it flimsy, but it does sink a little from your weight when you first get on. As far as not being able to complete an entire set. How many reps do you consider a set, I think 5 is a good number. If you're still building strength try starting with the easiest variation first. In general (from hardest to easiest) pull-ups, chins, and then parallel grip. The chair is also a good idea to reduce weight, but I would try the parallel grip first and see if you can knock a set out.


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## ectomorph141 (Apr 21, 2010)

The one I bought slips together in the middle as a 2 piece main bar.   Maybe the one you have is a solid bar.  This one slides together then you spin the handle to lock it as 1 bar.  Kinda generic so I might upgrade to the next best one depending how I feel about this one.  

Yep thats my plan.   I used to be able to at least 10-15 per set with the wide grip but that was 7 years ago during my first bulk up.   I need to build my back up to that.  It will probably take a good month or two until I can do that again.


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## PushAndPull (Apr 21, 2010)

ectomorph141 said:


> The one I bought slips together in the middle as a 2 piece main bar.   Maybe the one you have is a solid bar.  This one slides together then you spin the handle to lock it as 1 bar.  Kinda generic so I might upgrade to the next best one depending how I feel about this one.



That's probably it, I bought the more expensive on and it's a solid bar, I think it was on sale for $35 at Big 5. I would return that one and spend the extra $5-10 for the upgrade.


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## ectomorph141 (Apr 21, 2010)

Yeah I will probably do that.  That 2 pices main bar is very flimsy.


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## ectomorph141 (Apr 22, 2010)

Well I kinda messed up the opportunity with the new door jam pull up bar last night.  I started with biceps.  Did standing curls then went to concentration curls.   THEN decided to do back. OOPS!!!   Should have started with back first. The only reason I started biceps first before was because I didnt have anything around to really work the back with.   

So needless to say I ended up doing 3 full sets of 10 on the pull up bar but they were pretty much all assisted because I was so trashed from biceps. Plus I have not been able to properly work my back in a very long time due to my massive back injury last year. Finished it off with some very light deadlifts.   So next week starting with back first!!!   Oops.  

EDIT:  I forgot to specify that the bar I bought is called the "Iron Gym Total Fitness Kit"  and is a 2 piece design.  I think I might look into the P90x pull up bar.


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## PushAndPull (Apr 22, 2010)

Yeah, you definitely want to start with pull-ups, they're not the easiest exercise.
I got the Iron Gym Extreme, I should have told you that in the beginning but I didn't know how lame the cheaper one is, but the extreme version works great, I do weighted pull-ups on it with no problems.


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## ectomorph141 (Apr 22, 2010)

I saw that Iron Gym Extreme and noticed it is also a 2 piece design on the main bar.   I am almost wondering if I will have to get the P90x bar instead.  But if you say the Iron Gym Extreme holds up really well with he 2 piece design then maybe I will try that.


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## PushAndPull (Apr 22, 2010)

Maybe it's the additional pieces that are bolted on, help stablize it.


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## ectomorph141 (Apr 22, 2010)

Those additional pieces are on P90x bar too but the P90x bar is a solid bar.  I guess if it works then thats all that counts but that split bar is the weak point of that design for sure.  
EDIT:  I included the google pics to explain the weak point of the Iron Gym bar compared to the P90x.


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## PushAndPull (Apr 22, 2010)

Go for the P90x, as long as it's relatively cheap and works.


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