# Ran my first IGF-1 LR3 cycle



## BoatsN'Hoes (Feb 4, 2014)

First time using peptides or anything considered to be unnatural and I got some pretty great results. I ran 80 Mcg of IGF-1 LR3 four times a week for three weeks post workout and gained 10lbs. Within the first week I noticed the incredible pump, along with the weight gain I was seeing which was 4lbs in one week! The second week was about the same ending the week about 6-7lbs heavier. The beginning of the third week I noticed the strength gains, along with the awesome pump and more weight I put on, which ended my third week at 10lbs gained. The only side effect I noticed was some water retention and bloating during the second week of my cycle. I also noticed I slept better, not waking up during the nighttime, I recovered much quicker, healed faster and just felt great! Going to wait out my post cycle for a few weeks then get back on the IGF-1 LR3. The only thing in my diet that changed was an addition of some protein powder, and I have previously been stuck at the same weight for about a year. This stuff is amazing!


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## SuperLift (Feb 5, 2014)

Awesome job man!!  Let us know where you got the IGF-1!    Definitely the real deal right there..  10 lbs in 3 weeks is impressive!


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## D-Lats (Feb 5, 2014)

Where is it from? I've been looking for months for real igf-lr3 no one one here has anything good that I've seen.


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## rayschray12 (Feb 5, 2014)

that is impressive..10 lbs in 3 weeks with virtually no change in diet...i think im gonna hafta get on summa that! been looking for something to help with gains during a cruise. thanks for keeping us posted bro


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Feb 5, 2014)

I've been at a stand still for longer then I wanna even say with gaining weight and strength. This is the first peptide I've ever done, I don't know about their quality but the results speak for themselves. I got my peptides from Elitepeptides.com! They have pretty decent prices, great sales, and they ship out pretty quickly, not to mention it's in the states too. I picked up my IGF-1 LR3 for $60 with free shipping and they also sell BAC water now. I ordered another 4 vials from them!


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## D-Lats (Feb 5, 2014)




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## effinrob (Feb 5, 2014)

Nice

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Feb 5, 2014)

So here's a little visual for all of you, 3 weeks before my cycle and 3 weeks of my cycle.


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## Tyler114 (Feb 5, 2014)

BoatsN'Hoes said:


> First time using peptides or anything considered to be unnatural and I got some pretty great results. I ran 80 Mcg of IGF-1 LR3 four times a week for three weeks post workout and gained 10lbs. Within the first week I noticed the incredible pump, along with the weight gain I was seeing which was 4lbs in one week! The second week was about the same ending the week about 6-7lbs heavier. The beginning of the third week I noticed the strength gains, along with the awesome pump and more weight I put on, which ended my third week at 10lbs gained. The only side effect I noticed was some water retention and bloating during the second week of my cycle. I also noticed I slept better, not waking up during the nighttime, I recovered much quicker, healed faster and just felt great! Going to wait out my post cycle for a few weeks then get back on the IGF-1 LR3. The only thing in my diet that changed was an addition of some protein powder, and I have previously been stuck at the same weight for about a year. This stuff is amazing!





SuperLift said:


> Awesome job man!!  Let us know where you got the IGF-1!    Definitely the real deal right there..  10 lbs in 3 weeks is impressive!



well isn't this a coincidence


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Feb 6, 2014)

I read somewhere I think that the IGF-1 LR3 stays in your system for 72hrs.... my last dose was on Monday at like 30mcg because that's all I had left and today is Thursday and I'm still gaining weight and still getting incredible pumps. I gained another pound today, which puts me at 11lbs in 24 days. Still feel great and I'll continue to post to update you guys on when I stop getting awesome pumps at the gym and when I stop gaining weight. This should be interesting although I really, really, really don't wanna cycle this stuff lol I wanna use it constantly!!!


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## Tyler114 (Feb 8, 2014)

was that the only thing you were on?  those are impressive gains.  I've been contemplating using it for a while.....


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## Soujerz (Feb 8, 2014)

Very interesting I have a bottle that i won in a contest from BlueSky peptides sitting in the freezer, probably will use it with some SUS 250 i plan i running in april.


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Feb 10, 2014)

Yeah that was all I was on, the effects have almost worn off since I stopped last Monday. I get a decent pump now, and the weight gains have stopped. I'm gonna give myself another 2 weeks then start a 6 week cycle at 60 mcg. Roughly 9 lb up since my cycle started and ended a week ago.


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## wiseone (Feb 13, 2014)

BoatsN'Hoes said:


> Yeah that was all I was on, the effects have almost worn off since I stopped last Monday. I get a decent pump now, and the weight gains have stopped. I'm gonna give myself another 2 weeks then start a 6 week cycle at 60 mcg. Roughly 9 lb up since my cycle started and ended a week ago.



Hello BoatsNHoes,
First I sent u a private message so if u don't check you mail much please check it and reply. Not everything can be said on this board. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Second, I had read somewhere, ( Bass Killer.com maybe. Lots of great info ) that the half life for IGF-1LR3 is 24-30 hours not 72. Just trying to help. I also read that the max dose for IGF-1LR3 should be 50mcgs, they say that more doesn't really get any better results, although many people do much larger doses, and it's obvious that the amount u did and the way you ran your IGF worked well for you. 10 pounds in 3 weeks. WOW! I think anyone would be very satisfied. 
I'm thinking of ordering some from that company. Thanks for the info and keep posting, as that is the way most of us learn. Real world experiences.


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## wiseone (Feb 13, 2014)

Soujerz said:


> Very interesting I have a bottle that i won in a contest from BlueSky peptides sitting in the freezer, probably will use it with some SUS 250 i plan i running in april.



Hello Soujerz,
If u run your IGF-1LR3 from Blue Sky with some sus 250, how will u know how good the IGF-1LR3 really is? Maybe 85% of your results will be from the sus 250.
When BoatsNhoes ran his IGF-1LR3 he knew all the 10 pounds he gained came from it because he didn't run anything else at the same time.
For testing any product I always test it alone so I really know how good it is. Just something to think about. 
Have a great day.


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## Soujerz (Feb 13, 2014)

wiseone said:


> Hello Soujerz,
> If u run your IGF-1LR3 from Blue Sky with some sus 250, how will u know how good the IGF-1LR3 really is? Maybe 85% of your results will be from the sus 250.
> When BoatsNhoes ran his IGF-1LR3 he knew all the 10 pounds he gained came from it because he didn't run anything else at the same time.
> For testing any product I always test it alone so I really know how good it is. Just something to think about.
> Have a great day.



Definitely agree but wouldn't i get maximum results using it with the sus250 vs using it alone?


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## dieseljimmy (Feb 13, 2014)

You fella should give igf des a try sometime. I seem to respond better to it.


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Feb 13, 2014)

Well from using it I highly doubt that the half life is 24-30 hrs, seeing that I could still feel it on my Monday workouts from Friday's injection although I can't say that with 100% certainty. As far as doses, 80 mcg worked well for me, but hey, I haven't tried any other doses but I will start my new cycle soon and I will run it a week longer at 60 mcg. 120 mcg is not necessarily twice as effect as 60 mcg, once you hit your optimal dosage, it only benefits you marginally to increase. I worked hard in the gym four days a week, two body parts a day. The recovery is fast, I bet I could work every muscle everyday and it would benefit me even more! I bet if I had done that originally I would have gained even more muscle. I did a lot of research before I started this entire thing, it is a big deal. Injecting yourself with a peptide aka a research chemical is no small thing and I did two months of research before I decided this stuff was for me. Everyone should do the research beforehand and feel 100% confident. Although be careful what you read, there are plenty of people that don't know anything about IGF-1 LR3 but are quick to give their "expert opinion". Just because one thing worked for one guy doesn't mean it translates for everyone. Look through creditable sources, ask questions, be confident. 



wiseone said:


> Hello BoatsNHoes,
> First I sent u a private message so if u don't check you mail much please check it and reply. Not everything can be said on this board. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Second, I had read somewhere, ( Bass Killer.com maybe. Lots of great info ) that the half life for IGF-1LR3 is 24-30 hours not 72. Just trying to help. I also read that the max dose for IGF-1LR3 should be 50mcgs, they say that more doesn't really get any better results, although many people do much larger doses, and it's obvious that the amount u did and the way you ran your IGF worked well for you. 10 pounds in 3 weeks. WOW! I think anyone would be very satisfied.
> I'm thinking of ordering some from that company. Thanks for the info and keep posting, as that is the way most of us learn. Real world experiences.


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## wiseone (Feb 14, 2014)

Soujerz said:


> Definitely agree but wouldn't i get maximum results using it with the sus250 vs using it alone?



Hello Soujerz,
Yes, u will definetely get better results using some kind of AAS with the peptides and if u don't care to really TEST the IGF that u got from BlueSky because everyone is saying the peps from them are great!,  then by all means, do them together.


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## Soujerz (Feb 14, 2014)

wiseone said:


> Hello Soujerz,
> Yes, u will definetely get better results using some kind of AAS with the peptides and if u don't care to really TEST the IGF that u got from BlueSky because everyone is saying the peps from them are great!,  then by all means, do them together.




Yeah i have tested a lot of their products, T3 GOOD, TADALAFIL GOOD, PRAMI GOOD, GHRP-2 5mg + cjc-1295 no dac 5mg IN FUCKING SANE THE CARPAL TUNNEL I GOT WAS HORRIBLE. But i looked awesome. Good thing when i stopped using carpal tunnel went away.


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Feb 17, 2014)

Yup, still at 10lbs... can't seem to gain weight and get stronger without the IGF-1.


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## wiseone (Feb 19, 2014)

BoatsN'Hoes said:


> Yup, still at 10lbs... can't seem to gain weight and get stronger without the IGF-1.



Thanks for the update. Personally I think the time off from the LR3 would have been a good time to check out IGF-1des. Maybe u could have put on another 10 pounds and gained some more strength. But if u don't try it u will never know. 

I'm getting back on LR3 as I've been off it long enough and I'm wanting a break from IGF-1des as I don't think it should be run indefinitely as many say u can. I believe its best to cycle everything. I'm probably going to try running LR3 at a higher dose, (I'd love to pick up 10 pounds), maybe 80mcg split bilaterally the 4 days a week I train and do PEGMGF on off days, Wednesday and Saturday.

Definitely keep us posted when u start your second run and how your going to run it. Would be nice to hear u gain another 10 pounds and some more strength.
Take care


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Feb 19, 2014)

I would really like to try HGH but I don't wanna buy out of the states and I'm not sure if you can even get it in the states... Anyone? I didn't try another other peptide because that would have defeated the purpose of cycling, but I think MGF doesn't require cycling.


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## Soujerz (Feb 19, 2014)

Wow excited to try the IGF LR3 with my SUS250, do you think i should use GHRP-2 + CJC-1295 NO DAC when i run IGF LR3 and the SUS250?


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## THEIGF-1MAN (Feb 19, 2014)

IGF-1 Long R3 is def the best! Check out my post in the other thread- IGF1 effect


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## bucknaked (Feb 20, 2014)

THEIGF-1MAN said:


> IGF-1 Long R3 is def the best! Check out my post in the other thread- IGF1 effect



I couldnt agree more... I had similar results as the OP in the same amount of time... Except I took 40mcgs per day in split doses with 250 mgs of Omas Test ew split dose. I stock piled it afterwards like it was ammo... Lol


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## bucknaked (Feb 20, 2014)

BoatsN'Hoes said:


> I would really like to try HGH but I don't wanna buy out of the states and I'm not sure if you can even get it in the states... Anyone? I didn't try another other peptide because that would have defeated the purpose of cycling, but I think MGF doesn't require cycling.



Dont take MGF and IGF at the same time!!!   Im not sure if thats what youre saying or not, but wanted to tell ya that incase you or anybody else was considering the idea...


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## Paranoid Fitness (Feb 20, 2014)

OP, your results are impressive to say the least.

I agree, I wouldn't do MGF and IGF together.


PEG-MGF for four weeks then IGF-1 LR3 for four weeks.

IGF would only be one injection every third day of the last four weeks.

You want a IGF spike after  muscle damage then it activates its receptors and the magic happens for  about 72 hours. 

Elevated blood IGF for prolonged periods can cause intestinal growth.

Some guys tell you to dose IGF three or four times a day, nuts.


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Feb 20, 2014)

Wait... so the beginning of the 4th week you go one injection every third day? I'm still not clear on what's the longest cycle you can go on and post cycle length of time. I'd like to get a general consensus on what is an average dose and what's a high dose. I think 40 mcg is average, and 80 mcg is high...


Paranoid Fitness said:


> OP, your results are impressive to say the least.
> 
> I agree, I wouldn't do MGF and IGF together.
> 
> ...


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## wiseone (Feb 20, 2014)

BoatsN'Hoes said:


> I would really like to try HGH but I don't wanna buy out of the states and I'm not sure if you can even get it in the states... Anyone? I didn't try another other peptide because that would have defeated the purpose of cycling, but I think MGF doesn't require cycling.



BoatesNHoes,
If u do enough research you'll find more people like IGF-1LR3 than they  do HGH, especially for the buck. Go and read the post by TheIGF-1Man. He  said basically what I've found many to say in the past about HGH. It's  good stuff but u really get a better bang for the buck with IGF-1LR3  especially if u get the good stuff like u did. Just my 2 cents. 
Also, I really don't think trying other peptides defeats the cycling  purpose if u choose the right peps. There are some other good ones out  there, just maybe not quite as good as IGF but then they aren't as pricy  either.


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## wiseone (Feb 20, 2014)

BoatsN'Hoes said:


> Wait... so the beginning of the 4th week you go one injection every third day? I'm still not clear on what's the longest cycle you can go on and post cycle length of time. I'd like to get a general consensus on what is an average dose and what's a high dose. I think 40 mcg is average, and 80 mcg is high...



FWIW,
http://www.everydayfitness.net/what-is-bodybuilding-igf-1.shtml
He says he speaks with a lot of top bodybuilders and guru's so he's quite knowledgeable. Hard to know what works unless u do trial and error intelligently. Under dose not over dose for starters.


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## wiseone (Feb 20, 2014)

BoatsN'Hoes said:


> Wait... so the beginning of the 4th week you go one injection every third day? I'm still not clear on what's the longest cycle you can go on and post cycle length of time. I'd like to get a general consensus on what is an average dose and what's a high dose. I think 40 mcg is average, and 80 mcg is high...



Boats,
I sent u another private message, check it out when u get time.


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## bucknaked (Feb 21, 2014)

Paranoid Fitness said:


> OP, your results are impressive to say the least.
> 
> I agree, I wouldn't do MGF and IGF together.
> 
> ...



In high doses it might but I dont think I can agree with ya if its done broke up in 10mcgs x 4 so long as one of them is a minimum of 4hrs post workout


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## ElitePeptides (Feb 21, 2014)

Great research done here!


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Feb 21, 2014)

So here is another graph.... I love graphs lol. This shows the 19 days before I started IGf-1 LR3, 19 days during the cycle, then 19 days post cycle, so a total of 9 weeks. I think the IGF kick started me somehow (though I'm only 23 y.o.) since I gained a few pounds even after my cycle which is amazing since I haven't gained weight in like 2 years, definitely worth noting.  I messed up the reconstitution and that's why I did 80mcg, I start my new cycle on Monday and shooting for 60mcg this time around, 4 times a week for 3 weeks then for the last week every 3rd day, so twice that week. I heard that was the safe way to cycle the 4th week, unless anyone wants to chime in. Still learning the specifics.


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Feb 21, 2014)

Not a bad article but I don't agree with all of it. Everyone is different and trial and error are gonna have to be used, just like any other medication you would receive. However I think the dosages he suggests are quite high to start out with, I think it should be started out low, not high. What doctor do you know, wait, what good doctor do you know that says okay we are gonna start you out on a new medication and I'm gonna give you the high dosage version first. You gotta see how the body reacts to the small dosages first, anything else might just be a waste or potentially being picked up by other IGF-1 receptors you don't want picking them up. I also don't agree with the half life, I felt the effects from the IGF-1 for 3 days after. Used pre or post workout, I agree with a post workout injection but not pre. It's not an energy drink, it's not test, you simply won't get any effects from it and it's more efficient to go post workout so your muscle can just soak it up and it's not messing with natural IGF production.  



wiseone said:


> FWIW,
> http://www.everydayfitness.net/what-is-bodybuilding-igf-1.shtml
> He says he speaks with a lot of top bodybuilders and guru's so he's quite knowledgeable. Hard to know what works unless u do trial and error intelligently. Under dose not over dose for starters.


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## bucknaked (Feb 22, 2014)

Just a little word of wisdom to keep in mind when "researching" IGF-1 and a high protien diet... KEEP YOU BODY MOSTLY ALKALINE RATHER THAN ACIDIC....  by controlling your body's PH balance through diet and supplementation. Without getting to technical I'll summerize and let you do the research yourself... 

High acicidity triggers the pituitary-adrenal cortex to release cortisol. Researchers have obvserved a cortisol increase after healthy adults ate an acid-generating high PROTIEN meal.  Serum and salivary cortisol increased siginigantly 
ithin a few hours after the high protien meal, and cortisol levels are dependent on the protien content of the meal... (The type is unclear to me)  
Long story short... Cortisol can stimulate tumor growth and high levels of it are linked to insulin resistance, which can increase the risk of developing colorectal, pancreatic, edometrial, kidney, and breat cancer for those who have man boobs... 
High protien elevates levels of IGF-1. And when IGF-1 binds with the insulin receptors it stops the cancer cells from dying and actually encourages them to proliferate...  The moral of the story is watch what you eat when taking IGF-1, research which foods to eat to keep a healthy intracellular pH alkaline between 7.2 - 7.5 squared. Tumor cells thrive in the lowest pH cells.


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Feb 22, 2014)

So what's your diet that you stick to on IGF-1? Kinda struggling with what you said....


bucknaked said:


> Just a little word of wisdom to keep in mind when "researching" IGF-1 and a high protien diet... KEEP YOU BODY MOSTLY ALKALINE RATHER THAN ACIDIC....  by controlling your body's PH balance through diet and supplementation. Without getting to technical I'll summerize and let you do the research yourself...
> 
> High acicidity triggers the pituitary-adrenal cortex to release cortisol. Researchers have obvserved a cortisol increase after healthy adults ate an acid-generating high PROTIEN meal.  Serum and salivary cortisol increased siginigantly
> ithin a few hours after the high protien meal, and cortisol levels are dependent on the protien content of the meal... (The type is unclear to me)
> ...


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## THEIGF-1MAN (Feb 23, 2014)

bucknaked said:


> Just a little word of wisdom to keep in mind when "researching" IGF-1 and a high protien diet... KEEP YOU BODY MOSTLY ALKALINE RATHER THAN ACIDIC....  by controlling your body's PH balance through diet and supplementation. Without getting to technical I'll summerize and let you do the research yourself...
> 
> High acicidity triggers the pituitary-adrenal cortex to release cortisol. Researchers have obvserved a cortisol increase after healthy adults ate an acid-generating high PROTIEN meal.  Serum and salivary cortisol increased siginigantly
> ithin a few hours after the high protien meal, and cortisol levels are dependent on the protien content of the meal... (The type is unclear to me)
> ...



Excellent post on the importance of alkalizing. 
Yes it's proven acidity causes cancer, that is cancerous cells can only live and thrive in an acidic environment- lots of sugars, smoking, alcohol, acidic foods.
Cancer can not live in an alkalized(oxygenated) environment.


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## THEIGF-1MAN (Feb 23, 2014)

bucknaked said:


> Just a little word of wisdom to keep in mind when "researching" IGF-1 and a high protien diet... KEEP YOU BODY MOSTLY ALKALINE RATHER THAN ACIDIC....  by controlling your body's PH balance through diet and supplementation. Without getting to technical I'll summerize and let you do the research yourself...
> 
> High acicidity triggers the pituitary-adrenal cortex to release cortisol. Researchers have obvserved a cortisol increase after healthy adults ate an acid-generating high PROTIEN meal.  Serum and salivary cortisol increased siginigantly
> ithin a few hours after the high protien meal, and cortisol levels are dependent on the protien content of the meal... (The type is unclear to me)
> ...



The medical community has always known this, but cancer is big business! 
Do a search on Dr. Coldwell and Dr. Simulcini, whom have both proven and demonstrated that cancer is produced in an acidic environment and cured by highly alkalizing the body. High ph kills cancer, that is cancer thrives in an acidic body but can not live in a highly oxygenated(alkalized) body. Dr. Simulcini was the pioneer of applying sodium bicarbonate(highly alkalizing) to cancer, in particular injecting sodium bicarbonate directly into his patients tumors.  His success rate was 92+ % (that is for every 100 patients he cured 92 or over), unlike chemotherapy which has a long term success rate of 2%. Needles to say the FDA, AMA and government will not allow him to practice in the USA. As chemotherapy and cancer is just too big a business and extremely profitable.


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## Soujerz (Feb 23, 2014)

THEIGF-1MAN said:


> The medical community has always known this, but cancer is big business!
> Do a search on Dr. Coldwell and Dr. Simulcini, whom have both proven and demonstrated that cancer is produced in an acidic environment and cured by highly alkalizing the body. High ph kills cancer, that is cancer thrives in an acidic body but can not live in a highly oxygenated(alkalized) body. Dr. Simulcini was the pioneer of applying sodium bicarbonate(highly alkalizing) to cancer, in particular injecting sodium bicarbonate directly into his patients tumors.  His success rate was 92+ % (that is for every 100 patients he cured 92 or over), unlike chemotherapy which has a long term success rate of 2%. Needles to say the FDA, AMA and government will not allow him to practice in the USA. As chemotherapy and cancer is just too big a business and extremely profitable.




Youre fucked govt is a coming


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## bucknaked (Feb 23, 2014)

THEIGF-1MAN said:


> The medical community has always known this, but cancer is big business!
> Do a search on Dr. Coldwell and Dr. Simulcini, whom have both proven and demonstrated that cancer is produced in an acidic environment and cured by highly alkalizing the body. High ph kills cancer, that is cancer thrives in an acidic body but can not live in a highly oxygenated(alkalized) body. Dr. Simulcini was the pioneer of applying sodium bicarbonate(highly alkalizing) to cancer, in particular injecting sodium bicarbonate directly into his patients tumors.  His success rate was 92+ % (that is for every 100 patients he cured 92 or over), unlike chemotherapy which has a long term success rate of 2%. Needles to say the FDA, AMA and government will not allow him to practice in the USA. As chemotherapy and cancer is just too big a business and extremely profitable.



Great post...!!! Good to see someone else who knows whats up with the "establishment" and why they do what they do... Theres more evidence that an acid state is linked to the decrease in muscle mass... But studies show that supplementing patients with sodium bicarbonate before an exhaustive excersise resulted in significantly less acidosis in the blood than those who werent supplemented with SB.

Just so Im clear the first step in making your body more alkaline is not to eliminate or sharply decrease protien intake. You of course need protien to build muscle and prevent the loss of muscle mass known as sarcopenia... Eating slightly less protien is okay, just dont over do it... Besides, the body can only absorb approx 20mgs at a time anyway... Increasing your intake of fruits n vegetables and only indulge in sugar and grains as a rare treat. Cut back on salt intake, as sodium chloride can trigger metabolic acidosis in a dose dependent manner... Avoiding alcohol, soft drinks, caffeine and of course ALL processed foods. Taking 500 mgs of Magnesium in a divided dose can create an alkalinizing affect... Most of my research has shown Potassium Bicarbonate is probably the better option to use pre work out over sodium bicarbonate especially in regards to maintaining muscle mass and skeletal health.


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## THEIGF-1MAN (Feb 23, 2014)

bucknaked said:


> Great post...!!! Good to see someone else who knows whats up with the "establishment" and why they do what they do... Theres more evidence that an acid state is linked to the decrease in muscle mass... But studies show that supplementing patients with sodium bicarbonate before an exhaustive excersise resulted in significantly less acidosis in the blood than those who werent supplemented with SB.
> 
> Just so Im clear the first step in making your body more alkaline is not to eliminate or sharply decrease protien intake. You of course need protien to build muscle and prevent the loss of muscle mass known as sarcopenia... Eating slightly less protien is okay, just dont over do it... Besides, the body can only absorb approx 20mgs at a time anyway... Increasing your intake of fruits n vegetables and only indulge in sugar and grains as a rare treat. Cut back on salt intake, as sodium chloride can trigger metabolic acidosis in a dose dependent manner... Avoiding alcohol, soft drinks, caffeine and of course ALL processed foods. Taking 500 mgs of Magnesium in a divided dose can create an alkalinizing affect... Most of my research has shown Potassium Bicarbonate is probably the better option to use pre work out over sodium bicarbonate especially in regards to maintaining muscle mass and skeletal health.



Sodium bicarbonate buffers lactic acid, and has been used by athletes(runners, swimmers, etc) for decades for this purpose. Sodium bicarbonate before training will prevent tying up of the muscles (by buffering lactic acid) and sodium bicarbonate after training will flush out any accumulated lactic acid thereby dramatically enhancing recovery.

Magnesium and calcium are essential for alkalizing the body, when the body is low in calcium you enter into a dangerous acidic state therefore the body will draw calcium out of your bones to try and alkalize your body- hence leading to arthritis and bone diseases.


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## bucknaked (Feb 24, 2014)

BoatsN'Hoes said:


> Not a bad article but I don't agree with all of it. Everyone is different and trial and error are gonna have to be used, just like any other medication you would receive. However I think the dosages he suggests are quite high to start out with, I think it should be started out low, not high. What doctor do you know, wait, what good doctor do you know that says okay we are gonna start you out on a new medication and I'm gonna give you the high dosage version first. You gotta see how the body reacts to the small dosages first, anything else might just be a waste or potentially being picked up by other IGF-1 receptors you don't want picking them up. I also don't agree with the half life, I felt the effects from the IGF-1 for 3 days after. Used pre or post workout, I agree with a post workout injection but not pre. It's not an energy drink, it's not test, you simply won't get any effects from it and it's more efficient to go post workout so your muscle can just soak it up and it's not messing with natural IGF production.



Hey, Boats... Taking IGF1 post work out is fine so long as its at least three to four hours so as not to interfer with your body's natural MGF thats produced after hypertrophy... It has been proven that taken too soon while your body is still producing MGF it will cancel any proliferation that accures post work... The reason for taking it in micro doses thru out the day is to try n mimic how your body naturally produces it... So it has less chance attaching the access to your bowl walls... When subsituting anything sythetic your body  makesnaturally its always better to try and mimic how it produces it as much as possible... I mean, take testosterone for example... At a high level it produces any where between 10-18mgs per day over a 24 hr period... Not all at once, and especially not at some of thevcraz doses I see guys reporting using these days... The ideal way to use any hormone is by keeping it as level as possible... So by pinning it more fequently in smaller doses you can keep your hormone levels more level and reduce the chances of your body attacking what it cant utilize by converting to estrogen. Besides, the food you eat is ten times more anabolic than even Tren, the King! Its not the gear that turns to muscle, its the food...v


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Feb 24, 2014)

I hear the recovery time is cut in half like steroids. So you can work the same muscle everyday, this all makes sense to me, can anyone confirm this? Can I work the same muscle everyday without over working it? And I figure that since everything is being shuttled so quickly and more efficiently, taking supplements, and vitamins would be more effective and most useful about 15-30 mins before you take the IGF-1 LR3... right?


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Feb 24, 2014)

Damn Buck you seem to really know your stuff! I will definitely look into getting some Potassium Bicarbonate for my pre-workout and post (do you take it 30 mins before and after a workout?). My diet isn't too bad but I think I really don't wanna cut back on my protein! I try not to eat pre-made stuff and processed foods and I try to avoid stuff high in sodium which those things tend to be high in anyways. I think I'm gonna go stock up on veggies, not much on eating fruit though. You're killing me with the protein thing though,  I don't feel like my gains are going to be nearly as great on a lower protein diet. What rule of thumb do you follow on the low protein diet though? I do agree the lower doses frequent throughout the day is a safer way than all at once, but it's very inconvenient for me to be shooting multiple times a day. I usually take it when I get home, so about 30 mins after I lift. I will start to take it later but I don't usually get done lifting until like 8:00pm. How many times a day would you pin 60 mcg? I might be able to break it up a little, but what would be best for a Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday lifting schedule at 60mcg? I started my four week cycle today at 60mcg... Thanks for all your input, you're making great points and observations!



bucknaked said:


> Hey, Boats... Taking IGF1 post work out is fine so long as its at least three to four hours so as not to interfer with your body's natural MGF thats produced after hypertrophy... It has been proven that taken too soon while your body is still producing MGF it will cancel any proliferation that accures post work... The reason for taking it in micro doses thru out the day is to try n mimic how your body naturally produces it... So it has less chance attaching the access to your bowl walls... When subsituting anything sythetic your body  makesnaturally its always better to try and mimic how it produces it as much as possible... I mean, take testosterone for example... At a high level it produces any where between 10-18mgs per day over a 24 hr period... Not all at once, and especially not at some of thevcraz doses I see guys reporting using these days... The ideal way to use any hormone is by keeping it as level as possible... So by pinning it more fequently in smaller doses you can keep your hormone levels more level and reduce the chances of your body attacking what it cant utilize by converting to estrogen. Besides, the food you eat is ten times more anabolic than even Tren, the King! Its not the gear that turns to muscle, its the food...v


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## bucknaked (Feb 25, 2014)

Nah, I only know what Ive learned from reading real research studies that somebody else wrote... The rest is pretty much common sense gained by age and trial and error... I understand your hesitence about reducing your protien intake... But you'd be suprized how much less you really need... I used to eat no less than 2gs per lb of body weight.... 450g per day and out that only 40-50 was from powder mix
I had a buddy who was a pro back in the day his names is Phil Williams and he explained why that much was nuts... Look up "alternating calories " and "intermitting fasting" diets along with "how to alkeline" your body so you can better understand and customize a diet that is more fitting for your life style... Imo they are truly a must read for those who truly want achieve their fitness goals or just live a healthier life style.... As for dosing goes, I wouldnt use no more than 40mcgs split in two doses... I took it twice a day on train days only which was 6 days a week because I had been off long enough that I could get away with it since I wasnt exceeding my body's recovery ability at that point... Im not into extremely heavy weights anyway... I do hyper-sets and focus on "Time Under Tension" which is really what growth is all about! 



QUOTE=BoatsN'Hoes;3228608]Damn Buck you seem to really know your stuff! I will definitely look into getting some Potassium Bicarbonate for my pre-workout and post (do you take it 30 mins before and after a workout?). My diet isn't too bad but I think I really don't wanna cut back on my protein! I try not to eat pre-made stuff and processed foods and I try to avoid stuff high in sodium which those things tend to be high in anyways. I think I'm gonna go stock up on veggies, not much on eating fruit though. You're killing me with the protein thing though,  I don't feel like my gains are going to be nearly as great on a lower protein diet. What rule of thumb do you follow on the low protein diet though? I do agree the lower doses frequent throughout the day is a safer way than all at once, but it's very inconvenient for me to be shooting multiple times a day. I usually take it when I get home, so about 30 mins after I lift. I will start to take it later but I don't usually get done lifting until like 8:00pm. How many times a day would you pin 60 mcg? I might be able to break it up a little, but what would be best for a Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday lifting schedule at 60mcg? I started my four week cycle today at 60mcg... Thanks for all your input, you're making great points and observations!
[/QUOTE]


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Feb 26, 2014)

Hey Buck, with work and everything pinning at different times is difficult. Do you even think that pinning 2 hours before lifting and then another 30mcg 3-4 hours after I've lifted will even be worth it versus 60 mcg 3-4hrs after lifting? Side note, the IGF is definitely making me hungrier, I'm actually starving when I wake up and I'm hungry most of the day.


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Feb 27, 2014)

Okay so since Monday I haven't really gain a single pound... I'm at 60 mcgs, maybe 80 is my sweet spot?


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## bucknaked (Feb 28, 2014)

Yeah, I did it when I woke up and before bed and was gtg... However, I did micro doses on days off... 





BoatsN'Hoes said:


> Hey Buck, with work and everything pinning at different times is difficult. Do you even think that pinning 2 hours before lifting and then another 30mcg 3-4 hours after I've lifted will even be worth it versus 60 mcg 3-4hrs after lifting? Side note, the IGF is definitely making me hungrier, I'm actually starving when I wake up and I'm hungry most of the day.


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## bucknaked (Feb 28, 2014)

BoatsN'Hoes said:


> Okay so since Monday I haven't really gain a single pound... I'm at 60 mcgs, maybe 80 is my sweet spot?



Honestly, everybody is gonna have varied results and react differently to dosages I would think... Quality of the IGF will make a huge difference so its hard to really set a standard when the product it self doesnt have one to build a base line around. I'd suggest finding a company that has real recombiant grade igf and research it enough to know how it works at whatever dose your research and convidence gives you... Just be smart and do real research. Forums arent real research tho. There are clinical studies available on the line.  lol

And never forget FOOD is 10x more anabolic than IGF and GEARS


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Feb 28, 2014)

Yeah I know and I agree. But I do believe that forums are real research, it's real world accounts and that counts for something. It's somewhat scientific, I believe it's good to look everywhere, forums, clinical studies and scientific papers. I'm going to move back to 80mcg from 60mcg because this week was a stand still. Hey, maybe my body needs more time to accumulate the IGF-1 in my system, although at this point in my 1st 80mcg cycle I was up roughly 4 lbs by this time. I'm using the same IGF-1 LR3 that I got great results from (ElitePeptides) my first time around. Maybe this was not such a pure batch? Or possibly my body needs more. Regardless I'm gonna pin another 30 mcg in a few hours ( I pin at roughly 6pm and then 10/11pm after I have already lifted) then start 80mcg on Monday for another 3 weeks. 



bucknaked said:


> Honestly, everybody is gonna have varied results and react differently to dosages I would think... Quality of the IGF will make a huge difference so its hard to really set a standard when the product it self doesnt have one to build a base line around. I'd suggest finding a company that has real recombiant grade igf and research it enough to know how it works at whatever dose your research and convidence gives you... Just be smart and do real research. Forums arent real research tho. There are clinical studies available on the line.  lol
> 
> And never forget FOOD is 10x more anabolic than IGF and GEARS


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## bucknaked (Mar 2, 2014)

BoatsN'Hoes said:


> Yeah I know and I agree. But I do believe that forums are real research, it's real world accounts and that counts for something. It's somewhat scientific, I believe it's good to look everywhere, forums, clinical studies and scientific papers. I'm going to move back to 80mcg from 60mcg because this week was a stand still. Hey, maybe my body needs more time to accumulate the IGF-1 in my system, although at this point in my 1st 80mcg cycle I was up roughly 4 lbs by this time. I'm using the same IGF-1 LR3 that I got great results from (ElitePeptides) my first time around. Maybe this was not such a pure batch? Or possibly my body needs more. Regardless I'm gonna pin another 30 mcg in a few hours ( I pin at roughly 6pm and then 10/11pm after I have already lifted) then start 80mcg on Monday for another 3 weeks.



I agree... They are a type of research and I give them a lot of credit, however, what I meant by "real research" is learning the compound of topic thuroghly in depth via clinical studies and pharmacology and not just forums so you're not relying soley upon bro science before considering researching it your self and use the forums for affirmation and or adjustments to diet or dosage... As for the lack of gains youre not experiencing, its hard to say... It could be that its not as good as batch as the first one you ran, but it could also be your body is ready to be shocked by changing up your workout... Had you been off a while prior to running your first round?


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Mar 3, 2014)

Oh you mean chemistry research, something more solid than observational science lol gotcha. Went 3 weeks on and 3 weeks off, up-ed my dose to 80mcg, lost a couple pounds but I feel strong as hell! I have a new 1ml vial so lets see how this goes...


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Mar 6, 2014)

So this week has been at 80mcg and I haven't gained any weight... actually lost 2lbs since Monday. Still up 9-10lbs from the beginning of my first cycle. Gonna try to eat more, might help. Not feeling the pump that I had like my first cycle, not gaining the weight like I did. Just don't feel it! The only thing I noticed was an increase in strength on my bench this Monday (start of my 2nd week). Ordered some potassium bicarbonate btw.


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Mar 7, 2014)

Well 11 days into my 2nd cycle and I'm about the same weight that I was when I began. Not sure what's really going on here either. Although I have to say that I believe you get more localized growth even though the IGF-1 LR3 is systematic. I pin my glutes and rotate them every other day and my legs have grown about 1.5inches in circumference since my first cycle. My most noticeable gains have been my legs for size gains, my arms got a little bigger and my chest stayed the same.


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## Paranoid Fitness (Mar 7, 2014)

Getting ready to research CEM Products' IGF-1 LR3 and Ec (MGF) along with Novolog.
I know their LR3 is some of the best on the market. I've researched it before.






​


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## Octupi (Mar 8, 2014)

So seeing this makes me ask a few questions, as I've been reading a lot on IGF1-LR3

1. You guys mention Bac Water, but that makes the storage time to short doesn't it if you're only injecting every 2-3 days a 40mcg each time.  
2. If you use AA to reconstitute it has an indefinite shelf life but you should back load your syringe w/ BW at 4x the iu's you're injecting to cause less damage at the injection site.
3. the growth rate is slow to start w/ IGF-LR3 because first Hyperplasia has to occur and then growth of the new cells, so usually about 2-3 weeks in you'll see the effects, but you'll continue to grow until those cells are mature...(not really a question)
4. Some localized effect can be had by inj bi-laterally but IGF1-LR3 has a longer half life so shooting subq is equally effective...not to mention easier.

Am I all washed up or is everything I've read bunk?  I've been thinking of running some IGF1-LR3 at the end of my PCT from the cycle I'm almost done with or starting it before PCT to pick up some extra gains from what I'm running.

Thanks.


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Mar 11, 2014)

Hey Buck, I gotta pound of Potassium Bicarbonate, which should last me a long time! Do I just take the 500mg like any other supplement or is it best pre-workout?


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## bucknaked (Mar 12, 2014)

BoatsN'Hoes said:


> Hey Buck, I gotta pound of Potassium Bicarbonate, which should last me a long time! Do I just take the 500mg like any other supplement or is it best pre-workout?



45 minutes before and with your p/w meal... Which should be no earlier than 20 mins post workout... Eating sooner apparently can affect your GH impulse that spikes during hypertrophy....


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## Octupi (Mar 12, 2014)

Buck - 
When you say you pinnned AM and PM, did you do so SubQ or IM?  I've read conflicting reports that you should pin immediately after workout IM bilaterally, but you're saying no sooner than 3hrs after workout.  I see the logic in both so any input would be appreciated.


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## bucknaked (Mar 12, 2014)

Octupi said:


> Buck -
> When you say you pinnned AM and PM, did you do so SubQ or IM?  I've read conflicting reports that you should pin immediately after workout IM bilaterally, but you're saying no sooner than 3hrs after workout.  I see the logic in both so any input would be appreciated.




I did subcutaneous injects... I've read many reports conflicting with time of injection, but if you understand what happens after hypertrophy and IGF 1Ec a.k.a. MGF waiting to take it well after your body is no longer producing MGF then you'll have better results because the two won't be competing for the same receptors... The IGF-1LR3 will actually stop proliferation instead of promoting it... So it's better to let your body do it's thing instead of interrupting it... I'll try and find the data/study I read explaining this in depth and post it for ya and let you decide for your self. 

 Note: Taking MGF peptide and IGF1LR3 is like taking IGF-1 and IGF-1.  It doesn't make any sense...   

As for taking it IM I don't think it matters one way or the other... I personally wouldn't do it IM because I can't find any reason why it would make it more affective and increasing scare tissue isn't how I want to get big. I just wish I had put some more thought about scare tissue becoming an issue when I thought any thing less than a 21 gauge syringe is for pussy's and their sisters... Lol


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## Octupi (Mar 12, 2014)

Thanks Buck.  I'm w/ you on the scar tissue.  I use 31g insulin pins, don't even feel them.

For other items I use 27g.

My plan is to use the LR3 at 60mcg on training days, so 4 days a week (M,T,Th,F).  With the half life of LR3 don't think I'll miss the days off and let the receptors come back up.  I'm going to follow your lead....30mcg upon waking and 30mcg before bed since I lift in the evening (around 5 or 6pm).  This will make 1mg last 4 weeks.

Also do you/did you ever backload the pin w/ BW to dilute the solution to prevent necrosis from the AA?


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Mar 12, 2014)

I'm gonna go back to pinning post workout, no more micro doses... I feel that I benefit most from the 1 big post dose rather than splitting it up. I don't need my levels high throughout the day, I need it high when I'm building the muscle back up after lifting post workout. I think that the dose right after lifting is the most efficient use of my 80mcg and it gets soaked right up into my muscles. It's not like I'm stacking, so gotta use this stuff efficiently.


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## bucknaked (Mar 13, 2014)

BoatsN'Hoes said:


> I'm gonna go back to pinning post workout, no more micro doses... I feel that I benefit most from the 1 big post dose rather than splitting it up. I don't need my levels high throughout the day, I need it high when I'm building the muscle back up after lifting post workout. I think that the dose right after lifting is the most efficient use of my 80mcg and it gets soaked right up into my muscles. It's not like I'm stacking, so gotta use this stuff efficiently.



 Here is a quick note underscoring how nature stops production of IGF-1 in muscle post-exercise and significantly secretes MGF.

There have been animal studies that have examined the impact of muscle overload on IGF-I isoform expression but there has only been one (that I could find) human study in which this has been examined . That study**examined the expression of the MGF (IGF-IEc) and IGF-IEa isoforms before and 2.5 h after a single bout of high-resistance weight-lifting exercise, with the result that MGF was upregulated by 2-865% and the IGF-IEa isoform remained unchanged.
**-**Expression of IGF-I splice variants in young and old human skeletal muscle after high resistance exercise*,*"M. Hameed",*J Physiol Volume 547, Number 1, 247-254, February 15, 2003

I'd do whatever your research is telling you to do... I hope you keep us updated on your progress... And becareful taking that Potassium Bicarbonate it can be lethal if you dont know much about it and the otc drugs that have an adverse reaction with it...


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## bucknaked (Mar 13, 2014)

Octupi said:


> Thanks Buck.  I'm w/ you on the scar tissue.  I use 31g insulin pins, don't even feel them.
> 
> For other items I use 27g.
> 
> ...



Yes, Sir. I did the back load thing 2:1 ratio. I also only took it on train days... however, I was training 6days a week... Theres no such thing as over training on IGF-1LR3 & Test... Well, there is, but I dont think too many guys have ever reached that point using those two compounds...


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## bucknaked (Mar 13, 2014)

I havent read this in detail just a brief scan... but it appeared to me as though it could be some up to date  research on this subject... 

 To quickly summarize the difference in function, MGF stimulates muscle stem cells (satellite cells) to reenter the cell cycle and proliferate, whereas IGF-1 is necessary for the differentiation of newly generated muscle precursor cells into myoblasts and myofibers. See material from Goldspink posted earlier in this thread at: Post #158 Mechanical Signals, IGF-I Gene Splicing, and Muscle Adaptation


Growth Hormone bound to its receptor in the liver activates the STAT5b signaling pathway which promotes movement of that activated signaling protein to the nucleus where it induces transcription of the IGF-1 gene. From studies in mice and humans, it is evident that GH induces expression of both the endocrine form of IGF-1, the muscle form of IGF-1 and MGF. 1 Mice deficient in GH (lit/lit mice) respond to administration of GH with an acute increase in MGF, but not IGF-1, in skeletal muscle, although IGF-1 in liver is increased. 2 However the precise mechanism by which GH has distinct effects on IGF-1 and MGF expression in muscle is not completely known.

What is known is that in response to stretch overload and the presence of growth hormone combined gene transcription in muscle and its subsequent "blueprint" assembly" are induced to create mechano growth factor (MGF also known as IGF-1Ec in humans or IGF-1EB in mice) instead of muscle IGF-1. 3

How does the behavior of IGF-1 and MGF differ?

"MGF is a non-secreted form of IGF-1 that can be found in the nucleus of cells in culture or in a perinuclear location in hippocampal cells after ischemia (restriction in blood supply)". 4

In other words MGF never leaves the cell it was created in. For emphasis I quote from another source:

"...MGF... is not normally secreted." 5

Geoffrey Goldspink has written "that MGF increases myoblast proliferation via a different signalling pathway" then IGF-1.

To reiterate & expand upon this concept I quote from another source:

"IGF-1 isoforms differ in the signaling pathways they activate. By over-expressing IGF-1Ea and MGF in muscle, it has been shown that both isoforms can activate IGF-1R and AKT phosphorylation. In addition, MGF was shown to induce phosphorylation of ERK, a property not shared with IGF-1Ea." 6

So IGF-1 and MGF work through different pathways not receptors. There is only one receptor, IGF-1-receptor (also insulin, IGF-II & hybrid receptors which are not relevant to this discussion). There is no MGF receptor. The reason why it would be nonsensical to have an MGF receptor is that MGF does not leave the cell.

This contrasts with IGF-1 which is released from the liver into circulation and which is created in muscle and translocates to the cell surface. Both events result in IGF-1 binding to the IGF-1 receptor.

So what happens in plain language please?

During the process of gene transcription pieces of DNA are transcribed and then spliced together by RNA and this code is taken to the ribosomes where the peptide is manufactured. In splicing MGF there is a subtle frame shift such that the right side of the code is a little different then IGF-1. Everything else is identical.*

This subtle difference means that when MGF & IGF-1 are manufactured by the riboomes MGF MUST because of the signal pull that is part of its make up, translocate to the Nucleus of the cell and more specifically the Nucleolus.*

IGF-1 because of its makeup MUST move to the cytoplasm where it forms a pool of IGF-1 which will transloacte to the cell membrane where it will bind w/ an IGF-1 receptor.*

MGF has NO receptor. It does not need it to mediate events. Too many times people think that a lock/key ligand/receptor is needed to intiate signals. That is not always true especially when proteins move to the nucleus.*

MGF is NEVER found in circulation. It is produced in a muscle cell as described and it will act there always.*

IGF-1 however does circulate. It is produced in the liver and secreted into the blood stream. If it is made in muscle tissue or in local tissue it makes its way to the surface and can bind to a receptor on that cell or nearby cells. The latter is how muscle made IGF-1 can effect nearby bone growth.*

In lab experiments with MGF they usually do one of two things. One they use a viral vector of MGF cDNA to increase the cDNA of MGF in the cell so that more MGF is made internally. When they do this they get a 25% increase in muscle in a three week period. If they use the same approach to get IGF-1 to express itself from within they get less muscle growth (15%) and it takes 4 months.*

The second approach is to actually inject MGF into a cell (i.e. penetrate the cell membrane). Unfortunately for scientists this also invokes a damage repair function in cells so it is difficult to actually attribute all of the benefits that ensue to MGF.*

You follow neither of these approaches when you inject MGF or Peg MGF.*

MGF is identical to IGF-1 in chemical makeup on the leftside of the peptide. This allows it to bind with IGF-1 receptors should it ever be injected or find itself outside of the cell. However because of the difference in right-side structure MGF is incapable of binding to IGF-1 binding proteins (which would prolong its life).*

MGF has a very short half-life in blood plasma. If it is pegylated it has a longer half-life. I do not know the extent to which pegylation reduces binding affinity but it probably does to some extent depending on where it is pegylated.*

Injecting Peg MGF will, if it survives, probably bind to an IGF-1 receptor. If it does so it activates the IGF-1 signaling pathways just as IGF-1 would.*

I do not have any data on how strongly MGF will bind to IGF-1 receptors. A pegylated MGF is small enough to penetrate the vascular wall and travel systemically. It will not be confined to the area injected as IGF-1 bound to IGF-BindingProtein3 bound to Acid laibile subunit (i.e. the ternary complex) will. Thats why injecting large amounts of MGF brings vacularization, pumps, glucose uptake, in essence insulin-like activity....because it is behaving as IGF-1...and doing so in systemic fashion.

Some science (derived from ref:5) followed by both a reiteration and an elaboration on my part.

The IGF-1 gene consists of 6 exons (DNA bases that are transcribed into mRNA and eventually code for amino acids in the proteins), separated by 5 introns (DNA bases, which are found between exons, but are not transcribed). Transcription is controlled by alternate use of two upstream promoters and starts at several transcription start sites located in exons 1 and 2. Together, alternate promoter usage and alternative splicing at the 5' and 3' ends of the gene generate several distinct mRNAs depending on their exon sequences, which code for three isoforms of precursor IGF-1.*

Note: The notation 5' and 3' refer to the direction of the DNA template in the chromosome and is used to distinguish between the two untranslated regions (grey). See the example below:




These isoforms have characteristic N-terminal signal peptide sequences and C-terminal extension (E) peptide domains. Exons 1 and 2 and part of exon 3 encode the signal peptides. The remainder of exon 3 and exon 4 encode the mature IGF-1 peptide and the proximal part of the E peptide, which are shared by all isoforms. Splicing of exon 4 to exon 6 generates the predominant transcript IGF-1Ea. Splicing of exon 4 to exon 5 generates IGF- 1Eb, which encodes an isoform with 47 distinct amino acids in the E domain. When part of exon 5 is spliced to exon 6, the IGF- 1Ec (IGF-1EB in mouse) variant is generated. In this case, a frame-shift occurs in exon 5 followed by premature transcription stop in exon 6 that results in a stretch of 25 amino acids unique to this variant.*




As a result these templates produce in cellular ribosomes IGF-1 peptide forms that differ in amino acid structu


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## bucknaked (Mar 13, 2014)

As a result these templates produce in cellular ribosomes IGF-1 peptide forms that differ in amino acid structure in the E peptide region. This results in different C-terminal regions for the IGF-1 & MGF peptides. MGF BECAUSE of its C-terminal sequence, upon "birth" becomes rapidly localized in the nucleus. It is the carboxy portion which draws either MGF or the altered portion to the nucleus rather than to the cell membrane.*

"We found that the isoform of the human IGF-I precursor encoded by exon 5 [MGF] localized to the nucleus and strongly to the nucleolus. Precursors containing exon 6 or the upstream portion of exon 5 did not...The findings are consistent with the presence of a nuclear and nucleolar localization signal situated in the C-terminal part of the exon 5-encoded domain." 4
MGF is an autocrine growth factor, and this is THE different signaling pathway...a pathway that does not involve any receptor. The action of MGF via this pathway is one of promoting myoblast proliferation.

However MGF maintains a dual action. It "activates the muscle stem cell pool through its C-terminal domain (encoded in exons 5 and 6) as mentioned above AND according to the various studies by Geoffrey Goldspink "increases anabolic effects as the result of its IGF-I receptor binding domain (encoded in exons 3 and 4), which all the IGF-I genes possess."

The unaltered portion of MGF is still capable of binding to the IGF-Receptor. The altered carboxy portion renders MGF incapable of binding to the IGF-1-Binding proteins BUT it possesses the ability to bind to the IGF-1-Receptor via the unaltered side.

So what if MGF is injected into plasma? Presumably it would bind to the IGF-1-Receptor and initiate the AKT signaling pathway which will stimulate cell growth signals. In other words MGF stops being MGF and behaves like IGF-1 in initiating anabolic events. But it has been shown but is not yet fully understood that MGF is capable of AKT phosphorylation (an IGF-1-IGF-1-receptor mediated event) without ever coming in contact with the IGF-1-receptor.*

This brings up an interesting point. MGF seems to be capable of performing both its unique duties and those of IGF-1 as well (at times).*

What about studies that inject MGF into subjects?

Actually they don't do it that way.

"One of the methods we used to establish the biological action of MGF was to engineer a gene into which its cDNA was inserted into a vector. To our surprise a single intramuscular injection into a mouse muscle resulted in a 25% increase in mean muscle fibre cross section area within three weeks." - Goldspink G, Yang SY. Method of treating muscular disorders, United States Patent. Patent No US 6,221,842 B1, Apr 24, 2001.

This contrasts with, "similar experiments carried out using the systemic or liver type of IGF-I in an adenoviral vector under the control of a muscle regulatory sequence. This took four months to produce a 15% increase and is probably due to the anabolic effect of IGF-I, which is common to all the splice variants." - Barton-Davis E, Shoturma DI, Musaro A, et al. Viral mediated expression of insulin-like growth factor-I blocks the aging-related loss of skeletal muscle function. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 1998;95:15603?7.

So obviously the endogenous expression of MGF is much more powerful then the endogenous expression of IGF-1. Therefore we want MGF to behave as MGF and not as IGF-1 and do so in autocrine fashion.

In fact in an anti-doping article Goldspink made the following observation "The use of the DNA of IGF-I and particularly MGF is therefore a prime candidate for gene doping for enhancement of athletic performance."

Compare this to how bodybuilders have been attempting to use MGF. They simply inject the peptide. So even if it is resistant to breakdown (via PEGylation) and it binds locally to the IGF-1 receptor there will be NO MGF primary action. Instead MGF will behave as an IGF-1 ligand, binding to the IGF-1-Receptor to mediate IGF-1 signaling events.

References:

1 - Hameed, M., Lange, K.H., Andersen, J.L., Schjerling, P., Kjaer, M., Harridge, S.D., Goldspink, G., 2004. The effect of recombinant human growth hormone and resistance training on IGF-I mRNA expression in the muscles of elderly men. J. Physiol. 555, 231?240.

2 - Iida, K., Itoh, E., Kim, D.S., del Rincon, J.P., Coschigano, K.T., Kopchick, J.J., Thorner, M.O., 2004. Muscle mechano growth factor is preferentially induced by growth hormone in growth hormone-deficient lit/lit mice. J. Physiol. 560, 341?349.

3 - McKoy, Godfrina et al.,Expression of insulin growth factor-1 splice variants and structural genes in rabbit skeletal muscle induced by stretch and stimulation, Journal of Physiology (1999), 516.2, pp. 583?592 583

4 - Tan DS, Cook A, and Chew SL. Nucleolar localization of an isoform of the IGF-I precursor. BMC Cell Biol 3: 17, 2002.

5 - Scrable, Heidi, Running on empty: How p53 controls INS/IGF signaling and affects life span, Experimental Gerontology xxx (2008) xxx?xxx

6 - Barton, E.R., 2006. Viral expression of insulin-like growth factor-I isoforms promotes different responses in skeletal muscle. J. Appl. Physiol. 100, 1778? 1784.


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## 1bbigger (Mar 13, 2014)

Very interesting, keep posting brother.


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Mar 13, 2014)

Wow reading further into Potassium bicarbonate and it really sounds like a pain in the ass. I bought a pound of the stuff so it doesn't give me dosages and directions. So for the sake of making things easy, all I have to do is drop 500mg into a water bottle and take that once a day right?Anyways the MGF sounds like something I should try out, I've read about it but I hear that it's not very strong, although I could use some localized growth. I wish that it grew muscle receptors too...


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Mar 13, 2014)

It's gonna be a pain in the ass to measure out 500mcg too and I don't find much in the way of Mechano cycling. If it uses the IGF-1 receptors then I would have to cycle it as if it were IGF-1 which sucks because it would be great to find something very localized that I could use in my between cycles...


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## bucknaked (Mar 13, 2014)

My bad... I guess I had read that before... I came across it in a hurry and did a quick scan cut n paste thinking it was newer research that could possibly help us all on the subject.


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## bucknaked (Mar 13, 2014)

BoatsN'Hoes said:


> Wow reading further into Potassium bicarbonate and it really sounds like a pain in the ass. I bought a pound of the stuff so it doesn't give me dosages and directions. So for the sake of making things easy, all I have to do is drop 500mg into a water bottle and take that once a day right?Anyways the MGF sounds like something I should try out, I've read about it but I hear that it's not very strong, although I could use some localized growth. I wish that it grew muscle receptors too...



Sorry, Boats. I am by no means a Doctor or an expert on "how to" use Potassium Bicarbonate/Citrate. Because it can be LETHAL I would never encourage someone to take it without a doctors supervision who has more knowledge about it than myself... Btw... Sodium Bicarbonate is just a fancy word for Baking Soda. Its healing properties are pretty incredible....


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## bucknaked (Mar 13, 2014)

BoatsN'Hoes said:


> Wow reading further into Potassium bicarbonate and it really sounds like a pain in the ass. I bought a pound of the stuff so it doesn't give me dosages and directions. So for the sake of making things easy, all I have to do is drop 500mg into a water bottle and take that once a day right?Anyways the MGF sounds like something I should try out, I've read about it but I hear that it's not very strong, although I could use some localized growth. I wish that it grew muscle receptors too...



If youre wanting to keep your body in a more alkaline state which is the smartest thing any of us can do health wise is look at using 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide protocol epson salt baths....


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Mar 14, 2014)

bucknaked said:


> If youre wanting to keep your body in a more alkaline state which is the smartest thing any of us can do health wise is look at using 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide protocol epson salt baths....



From what I read it isn't that bad, just kinda need to stay well hydrated and take the proper doses. I think I will just take it on my IGF-1 cycles, not a lifestyle changer. I'll look around for the daily dosage recommendations. Oh btw MGF only looks useful in combination with roids, that's just what I'm thinking. But like I said before I do need localized growth, maybe I can figure out a cycle where I can use both IGF-1 and MGF.


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## bucknaked (Mar 14, 2014)

BoatsN'Hoes said:


> From what I read it isn't that bad, just kinda need to stay well hydrated and take the proper doses. I think I will just take it on my IGF-1 cycles, not a lifestyle changer. I'll look around for the daily dosage recommendations. Oh btw MGF only looks useful in combination with roids, that's just what I'm thinking. But like I said before I do need localized growth, maybe I can figure out a cycle where I can use both IGF-1 and MGF.



You should see what MGF can do for localized growth when put into a gene / vivo then into the muscle!!! Its puckin incredible... Gene Doping. Google it


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Mar 16, 2014)

bucknaked said:


> You should see what MGF can do for localized growth when put into a gene / vivo then into the muscle!!! Its puckin incredible... Gene Doping. Google it



Yeah I heard something like this a while ago but didn't pay it much attention. Just googled it now though, it is puckin amazing!!! I wonder how'd you'd be able to get this done...


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Mar 16, 2014)

The science of it and technique are pretty straight forward. You don't have to be a scientist to gene dope... I'm gonna look into this even more! If you have any really good articles, please share them lol


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## Rayjay1 (Mar 16, 2014)

"You take steroids??"  "Nah, man.  It's genetics..."


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Mar 18, 2014)

I have made zero progress during this 4 week cycle (I'm on the 4th week), anyone have an idea why? This is my second cycle, my first cycle was a 3week on 3 week off. Also thinking of stacking MGF with my next IGF-1 LR3 cycle to hit my delts harder, any suggestions on dosage, etc?


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## Bateman (Jun 17, 2016)

Resurrect this interesting thread. 11lbs on the first cycle


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