# What's your chest routine?



## Leatherface (Mar 15, 2005)

What does your chest routine typically look like guys and gals?


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## Machher (Mar 15, 2005)

bench
incline
decline


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## pumpthatiron (Mar 15, 2005)

bench
 incline
 decline
 cables


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## pumpthatiron (Mar 15, 2005)

i was just wondering if you more experienced people still use dumbells for benching?


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## reg56 (Mar 15, 2005)

bench
 incline
 dips/decline (alternate)
 flys


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## min0 lee (Mar 15, 2005)

bench---once a month I do dumbells
incline----once a month I do dumbells
dips/decline (alternate)
flys---sometimes


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## Tommy (Mar 15, 2005)

Incline Dbell(I use them all the time)
Flat dbell
weighted dips
decline fly's


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## ihateschoolmt (Mar 15, 2005)

Flat bench
 Incline bench alternate db and bb
 drop set of some machine I don't know the name of. It is like flys but you sit with your back at 90 degrees.


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## live2pump (Mar 15, 2005)

One Week 
Flat Bench
Incline flys dumbells
Cables
Dumbell pullovers

Next Week 
Incline barbell
Flat dumbell flys
Decline
Dumbell pullovers


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## Seanp156 (Mar 15, 2005)

Right now... I throw in mil. press for shoulders

 Flat BB Bench 3x6-8
 BB Military Press 2x 8-10
 Dips 2x6-8
 DB Flyes 2x8-10
 DB Overheads 2x 6-8
 DB Kickbacks 2x10-12


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## Goodfella9783 (Mar 15, 2005)

Bench
Incline
Decline
Cables
Pec Deck


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## myCATpowerlifts (Mar 15, 2005)

bench alternates between 2 phases i made up all myself 
each phase is 1 week lol...


Week 1:
Flat Barbell Bench- 5,4,3,2,1 reps
Dumbell flat bench- 3x5
Barbell incline- 3x4

week 2:
Flat Bench- 4x6-8
Incline dumbells- 3x8
Cable/band crossovers- 3x8

thats excluding my other body parts i do on chest day, such as shoulder and or triceps..


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## PreMier (Mar 15, 2005)

Yesterday it was:
Flat BB Bench(heavy)
Incline Flyes


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## Brolly (Mar 15, 2005)

Flat bench
Incline bench
Flat dumbells
Incline dumbells
Sitting chest flies on the machine (90degree angle)


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## fUnc17 (Mar 15, 2005)

Depends, i try to alternate everything

flat BB 
incline BB
decline BB
flat DB
incline DB
decline DB
incline flyes
decline flyes
flat flyes

typically 2 pressing movements and 1 type of fly. or 3 pressing movement and no flyes, or 1 pressing movement and 2 types of flyes

i dont like doing dips for chest, i like them for tri's. and I've used cables before but for some reason they never stuck

DB's make my chest soar the most and i like them because I can control the weight better and squeeze


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 16, 2005)

Flat bench DB x 5
Incline DB x 4
Flat bench x 4
Incline bench x 4
Incline Flys x 3
Flat bench Flys x 3
Decline bench x 3
Decline Flys x 3
Cable Crossovers x 4
Pec Deck x 3

Every Monday. Keeps me sore for 6 days every time. Usually I change the order of those exercises around in order to keep my body guessing.


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## live2pump (Mar 16, 2005)

Does anyone do pullovers or am I in the minority?


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## Trusted Employe (Mar 16, 2005)

Bench Pressx5
Incline Dumbbell x4
Flat Fly'sx3
Close Grip x4
Skull crushers x 3


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## Phoenix87 (Mar 16, 2005)

Flat Bench with DB
Incline with DB
DB flys
Cable Standing Fly
or Chest Dip
I like to use mostly DB because I work out alone and don't need a spotter. 
I also think it isolates the pecs better....


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## Phoenix87 (Mar 16, 2005)

live2pump said:
			
		

> Does anyone do pullovers or am I in the minority?


With DB's or Bar??? I take it your doing them straight arm to work the chest rather than the tri's.


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## live2pump (Mar 16, 2005)

With db's!

I'm talking about lying on the bench pependicullary (making a T) and extending the dumbell almost to the ground and bringing it back up just over your head.


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## LAM (Mar 16, 2005)

live2pump said:
			
		

> Does anyone do pullovers or am I in the minority?



I do them on back day.

my chest routine usually consists of a incline movement, decline movement and a db fly movement.  at most I do about 8 working sets


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## Premiere (Mar 16, 2005)

i do pullovers on back days


flat bench
db bench
decline flys


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## M.J.H. (Mar 16, 2005)

My chest workout usually has the following exercises: 

- decline bench presses
- flat DB flyes
- incline bench presses
- flat DB presses 

In no specific order.


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## pumpthatiron (Mar 16, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> Flat bench DB x 5
> Incline DB x 4
> Flat bench x 4
> Incline bench x 4
> ...


 36 fukin sets!... no wonder you think you're a "hardgainer"... overtraining like WHOA.  You need to learn a lot.


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## soxmuscle (Mar 16, 2005)

Flat BB x 3
Incline BB x 1
Decline x 1
Cable Flies x 1


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## westb51 (Mar 16, 2005)

BB bench x3
db incline x3
bb decline x3
Plate loaded press x3
Mac flys x3
Vert mac press x3


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## BIGDAVE (Mar 16, 2005)

Flat bench (barbell)
Incline (dumbbell)

and sometimes decline with barbell or dumbbell.


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## min0 lee (Mar 16, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> Flat bench DB x 5
> Incline DB x 4
> Flat bench x 4
> Incline bench x 4
> ...



Holy overtraining!


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## LAM (Mar 16, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> Holy overtraining!



to say the least.  I would love to see the level of intensity that is used to perform 36 sets.


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## PreMier (Mar 16, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> to say the least.  I would love to see the level of intensity that is used to perform 36 sets.




Yea, but remember.. training is 50%.  So he has to get all he can out of it.


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 16, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> Holy overtraining!



Not really. That's what my regimen evolved to over 8 of 10 years to break through about 5 plateaus. Just a month ago I added those decline exercises on that list to add some emphasis to the lower pec line and gained 1 lb so far which is good for me. Took me 10 years to gain 30 ~ 40 lbs on my skinny frame.

Think about it this way, I basically structure that regimen like some people do for single exercises...dropping weight on the way down in sets. Naturally at the exercises at the top of the list are my primaries where I use the most weight. The bottom 3 and half the exercises in general are for isolation and shaping the muscles anyway. If I was overtraining I wouldn't be making gains every week in reps and more weight. Plus when I overtrain my body starts to shut down and I get fevers at night, get nightmares, and recuperation time doubles.

As for intensity, it takes me 2 hours to get through that work out but I usually can hardly walk afterwards and am close to puking from the effort. If you think that's such an extreme workout you either don't push yourself enough or aren't at that stage with your own body's genetic limit.

Now last month I definately was overtraining. For 3 months I didn't make any strength gains on chest. Why? Well I was doing 25 sets of that routine I posted twice a week, split between flat chest and upper, mondays and wednesdays. After I joined them back into one day, despite using 5~10% less weight in some exercises, I started making gains again thanks to the extra two days of recuperation time. When I hit another plateau I'll change it up again but for now this is working great for me.


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## min0 lee (Mar 16, 2005)

If it works for you then the best of luck, thats just too much for me.


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## PreMier (Mar 16, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> Not really. That's what my regimen evolved to over 8 of 10 years to break through about 5 plateaus. Just a month ago I added those decline exercises on that list to add some emphasis to the lower pec line and gained 1 lb so far which is good for me. Took me 10 years to gain 30 ~ 40 lbs on my skinny frame.
> 
> Think about it this way, I basically structure that regimen like some people do for single exercises...dropping weight on the way down in sets. Naturally at the exercises at the top of the list are my primaries where I use the most weight. The bottom 3 and half the exercises in general are for isolation and shaping the muscles anyway. If I was overtraining I wouldn't be making gains every week in reps and more weight. Plus when I overtrain my body starts to shut down and I get fevers at night, get nightmares, and recuperation time doubles.
> 
> ...



Shaping muscles?  2 hours in the gym?  Amazing..


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 16, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> If it works for you then the best of luck, thats just too much for me.



I think everyone is different and everyone responds differently to each routine and has to learn what is best for their body over time. There's a guy I know in the gym who has a very similar build to me, but is a little taller and has a little thicker bone structure. He has very little variety in his workout but he does tons of sets with very heavy weight -- and it works for him and that's all that counts IMO. Frankly his stamina to maintain such heavy weight throughout is impressive to me. I don't have that kind of stamina so I compensate in more exercises to hit more angles that aren't so fatigued.


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## P-funk (Mar 16, 2005)

declines for the lower pec line??

interesting.  I should try that.  Never even thought of it!!


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## PreMier (Mar 16, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> declines for the lower pec line??
> 
> interesting.  I should try that.  Never even thought of it!!



Jesus, how could I miss that?  This guy is starting to sound like Johnnny..


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 16, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> Shaping muscles?  2 hours in the gym?  Amazing..



Looking at your shapeless upper chest there, it's no wonder you're amazed. I'm sure you do 25 sets of flat bench.


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 16, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> declines for the lower pec line??
> 
> interesting.  I should try that.  Never even thought of it!!



Page 330, Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding, 1998. Read it sometime. Rumor has it the author actually knows a bit about the subject.


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## PreMier (Mar 16, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> Looking at your shapeless upper chest there, it's no wonder you're amazed. I'm sure you do 25 sets of flat bench.



You obviously know nothing about the human body, and how it works(read physiology).  Otherwise you wouldn't make such an asinine statement.  I do less than 10 sets btw.


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## P-funk (Mar 16, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> Page 330, Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding, 1998. Read it sometime. Rumor has it the author actually knows a bit about the subject.




who is the author??


I guess i need to do more reading.


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## pumpthatiron (Mar 16, 2005)

lol man this is hilarious, he claims to be a hard gainer when he is doing 36 sets per body part.  And he claims there is a way to shape the muscle!  And he knows about decline working the lower pec line!  Man I have a lot to learn from this guy...


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 16, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> You obviously know nothing about the human body, and how it works(read physiology).  Otherwise you wouldn't make such an asinine statement.  I do less than 10 sets btw.



I'm sorry you completely missed the sarcasm in my post.


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 16, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> who is the author??
> 
> 
> I guess i need to do more reading.



I hope you're kidding.


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## seven11 (Mar 16, 2005)

hey hardgainner i do u talk shit bout how other people look but u dont even post a pic... ur probrebly some skinny ass that doesnt even lift.. so u come on these boards to feed ur ego and feel beter bout ur bonny ass


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## PreMier (Mar 16, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> I'm sorry you completely missed the sarcasm in my post.



The sarcasm of my 'shapless upper chest' or the '25 sets on flat bench'?

Just because you have been training _X_ amount of years, doesnt mean you know what your doing.. and by the posts I have seen so far, I think you should read more and post less.


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## seven11 (Mar 16, 2005)

hey damnhardgainner are they back together?????


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 16, 2005)

I am truly amazed at the ignorance on display regarding "shaping" of muscles, ie sculpting, ie weak point training, ie bringing out definition, separation, and striations through isolation training. And you people are criticizing my routine?

_"...focusing on your weak points, so having as complete a physique as possible becomes essential. In my case, this meant doing a greater proportion of higher-rep isolation training, making sure I sculpted each muscle and acheived the greatest amount of definition and separation possible." _p. 146 Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding by Arnold Schwarzenegger

_"Isolation training involves focusing your efforts on a specific muscle or muscle group or even part of a muscle in isolation from other muscles. ... An exercise like Dumbbell Flys, on the other hand, works the pecs in isolation and lets you hit them with maximum intensity. As a further step, you can do Incline DB Flys as a way of isolating the upper pecs. Carrying this to an even further extreme, you can perform Incline Cable Crossovers, making special effort to cross your hands and get a maximum Peak Contraction of the test. This would isolate and develop the inner area of the upper pecs.

Isolation training can allow you to develop every part of your physique completely, bringing up an weak areas and helping to acheive the degree of muscle separation and definition necessary for that sculpted, champion look." _P.190 Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding by Arnold Schwarzenegger

_"The bodybuilder's physique is a carefully balanced combination of many factors, including *shape*, proportion, and symmetry. Bodybuilding has been compared to sculpture, with the bodybuilder creating and *shaping* a physique the way the artist sculpts a statue from marble or granite. For the bodybuilder, the only material he has to work with is muscle.

The exercises and training principles you learned in Basic Trainig Program are not enough to give you total control over your body that is needed to develop a sculpted, championship physique. You need more and different kinds of exercises, a knowledge of how to design your workouts to get very specific results, and an ability to generate sufficient intensity so your body will continue to grow and change. You can't leave any muscle groups out. You must include everything -- the forearms, the two major calf muscles, the lower back, the rear delts, the serratus, and the intercostals. *And it isn't enough to have big muscles. For the chest, for example, you need upper, lower, and middle pecs, inner and outer fullness and development.*
...
Summing up, the specific goals you will be working toward in Advanced Training Technique workouts will include:

1. Develop extra mass and, eventually, *muscle shape*.
2. Focusing not just on muscle mass but on the details of each muscle group as well.
3. Creating a physique with the aesthetic qualities of balance, proportion, and symmetry.
4. Working on the separation between muscles and the major muscle groups.
5. Learning to totally control your physical development so that you are able to correct imbalances, weak points, and problem areas._  P.201 Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding by Arnold Schwarzenegger

I think I'll listen to a seven-time Mr. Olympia over some jokers on a forum, thanks.


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 16, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> The sarcasm of my 'shapless upper chest' or the '25 sets on flat bench'?
> 
> Just because you have been training _X_ amount of years, doesnt mean you know what your doing.. and by the posts I have seen so far, I think you should read more and post less.



Sarcasm on 25 sets of flat bench.

As for posting, several of you are living examples that post counts are not a direct measure of knowledge or wisdom. My point was never about lifting for 10 years - time is not always a reliable measure of experience - after all even if you do nothing it marches on, but lifting for 10 years with _my own body_ does make me far more informed regarding matters of what works for me. I get results that I am happy with and that's all the proof I need. Meanwhile, you and others are quick to draw basic assumptions and criticise with an overall lack of first-hand information regarding another person. That's known in some circles as being a dick.


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## John Rambo (Mar 16, 2005)

Leatherface said:
			
		

> What does your chest routine typically look like guys and gals?



I just recently started doing chest once a week as follows:
Flat bench
Incline bench
Decline bench
Flys
Close grip bench

About 4 sets of each.  So far has worked well for me.


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## pumpthatiron (Mar 16, 2005)

naw hardgainer, that's just because your screen name is kinda whining that you don't grow as fast as most people.  That's why we are trying to help you out with where your problems lie.  36 sets is insanely high.


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## PreMier (Mar 16, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> I am truly amazed at the ignorance on display regarding "shaping" of muscles, ie sculpting, ie weak point training, ie bringing out definition, separation, and striations through isolation training. And you people are criticizing my routine?
> 
> _"...focusing on your weak points, so having as complete a physique as possible becomes essential. In my case, this meant doing a greater proportion of higher-rep isolation training, making sure I sculpted each muscle and acheived the greatest amount of definition and separation possible." _p. 146 Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding by Arnold Schwarzenegger
> 
> ...



You are one dumb mother fucker Johnnny.  You stick out like a sore thumb.  You cant shape a muscle, its not possible sorry.  Your right though, everyone here is a joker, you cant be wrong, can you?  Read this, courtesy of belial.

The existence of the so-called "upper", "lower", "inner" and "outer" pectorals along with the assertion that it is possible to isolate one or more of these to the relative exclusion of the others in training, are among the most firmly entrenched myths in Strength Training and Bodybuilding circles. In fact none of these truly exist as either separate and distinct muscles or regions in a functional sense. Even though it could be argued that there appears to be a structural distinction between the upper and lower pectorals (and some anatomy texts do in fact support this distinction though not all do) because the pectoralis-major does originate from both the sternum and the proximal or sternal half of the clavicle along it???s anterior surface (it also has connections to the cartilages of all the true ribs with the frequent exception of the first and seventh, and to the Aponeurosis of the external oblique muscle), this is considered to be a common (though extensive) origin in terms of the mechanical function of the muscle. Thus the pectoralis-major is in fact for all practical purposes one continuous muscle with a common origin and insertion, and functions as a single force-producing unit. The terms upper, lower, inner and outer are imprecise and relevant only in order to make a vague subjective distinction between relative portions of the same muscle for descriptive purposes. They are vague and imprecise terms because there is no clearly delineated or universally defined border between them.
Further it is not physically possible either in theory or practice to contract one region of a single muscle to the exclusion of another region or regions (as a Biomechanics Professor of mine once demonstrated to a bunch of us smart-ass know-it-all???s taking his course, using EMG analysis). When a muscle contracts it does so in a linear fashion by simultaneously reducing the length of its constituent fibers and thus its overall length from origin to insertion. Even where a single muscle is separated into multiple functional units that are clearly defined such as the triceps (which are referred to as ???heads??? by Anatomists and Biomechanists), because they share a common point of insertion in order for one head to shorten all must shorten. This only makes sense if you think about it because otherwise there would be ???slack??? in one when the other shortened, which as we know does not occur. Note that there are some special cases where one head of a muscle must actually lengthen when the other shortens (e.g. the posterior head of the deltoid in relation to the anterior head during the positive stroke of fly???s), the point however is that even in these special cases there is no ???slack??? because there is in fact contractile activity (whether concentric or eccentric) throughout the muscle.

That is not to say however, that all fibers in different areas, or heads are necessarily shortened to the same degree during a particular movement. Depending on the shape of the muscle, the joint geometry involved, and the specific movement being performed, fibers in one area of a muscle or head may be required to shorten more or less than in others (or even to lengthen) in order to complete the required movement. For example during a decline fly though muscle fibers in all regions of the pectoralis-major must shorten as the upper arm is drawn towards the median plane of the body, because of the angle of the arm in relation to the trunk the fibers in what we commonly refer to as the lower pecs will have shortened by a greater percentage of their overall length than those in the upper region of the muscle by the completion of the movement. Conversely when performing an incline fly there is greater shortening in the fibers towards the upper portion of the muscle than in the lower.

Many proponents of the so-called ???isolation??? approach to training claim that this proportionally greater shortening of the fibers equates to greater tension in the ???target??? region than in others, and therefore stimulates greater adaptation; but this is completely at odds with the cross-bridge model of muscle contraction which clearly shows that as fiber length decreases tension also declines due to increasing overlap and interference in the area of the cross-bridges. Some also contend that the fibers called upon to shorten to a greater degree tend to fatigue faster than others and that therefore there is greater overall fiber recruitment in the region where this occurs, and thus a greater stimulus to growth; but there is no evidence to suggest that a fiber fatigues faster in one position than in another in relation to other fibers in the same muscle. In fact it has been shown that Time Under Tension (TUT) is the determining factor in fatigue and not fiber length. In fact fiber recruitment tends to increase in a very uniform fashion throughout an entire muscle as fatigue sets in.

The ability to ???isolate??? a head, or region of a muscle to the exclusion of others by performing a particular movement, or by limiting movement to a particular plane and thus develop it to a greater degree, is a myth created by people who wish to appear more knowledgeable than they are, and has been perpetuated by trade magazines and parroted throughout gyms everywhere. It is pure non-sense and completely ignores the applicable elements of physiology, anatomy, and physics in particular. Quite simply the science does not support it, and in most cases is completely at odds with the idea.
Regardless of the science however, many people will remain firmly convinced that muscle isolation is a reality because they can ???feel??? different movements more in one region of a muscle than in others. This I do not dispute, nor does science. There is in fact differentiated neural feedback from motor units depending on the relative length of the component fibers, and this feedback tends to be (or is interpreted by the brain as) more intense when the fibers in question are either shortened (contracted) or lengthened (stretched) in the extreme. However this has to do with proprioception (the ability to sense the orientation and relative position of your body in space by interpreting neural feedback related to muscle fiber length and joint position) and not tension, fatigue, or level of fiber recruitment. Unfortunately it has been seized upon and offered up as ???evidence??? by those looking to support their ideas by any means available.

Muscle shape is a function of genetics and degree of overall development. As you develop a muscle towards its potential, it does change in appearance (generally for the better) but always within the parameters defined by its inherent shape. A person who tends to have proportionately more mass towards the upper, lower, inner or outer region of his or her pectoralis-major will always have that tendency, though it may be more or less apparent at various stages in their development, and in most cases appears less pronounced as overall development proceeds. That is not to say that training a muscle group from multiple angles is totally without value. In fact we know that even subtly different movements can elicit varying levels of fiber recruitment within a muscle in an overall sense (i.e. in terms of the percentage of total available fibers) due to differences in joint mechanics, and neural activation patterns, as well as varying involvement of synergistic and antagonistic muscle groups involved. So by all means experiment with different angles in your training, but don???t expect to be able to correct so-called ???unbalanced??? muscles this way, or to target specific areas of a particular muscle. Work to develop each of your muscles as completely as possible and shape will take care of itself. If you want to worry about ???shaping??? you should pay more attention to the balance between different muscle groups and work to bring up any weak groups you may have in relation to the rest of your physique.


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## soxmuscle (Mar 16, 2005)




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## brian2440 (Mar 16, 2005)

I am glad to see this post.  I have been doing 24 sets for chest.

incline bb, decline bb, flat bb. 3 set each
incline db, decline db, flat, db. 3 set each
one fly movement and one cable movement.  I guess I have been way overtraing, but I get this done in a hour.  How many sets should I do?


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## pumpthatiron (Mar 16, 2005)

brian you can do anywhere from as low as 6 sets to as high as 12 sets.  I guess upto 15 is very high volume but alright.


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## pumpthatiron (Mar 16, 2005)

6-9 extremely intense sets for me...


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## V Player (Mar 16, 2005)

Yup. Thats johnny alright. Lower pec line....asinine routines....immediate slams on PreMier, whom we all know he hates almost as much as Duncan..... defensiveness right off the bat......and references to his idol, Arnold. 




Johnny, johnny, johnny...... when the hell are you going to learn that you cannot decieve people that were already smarter than you in third grade than when you were in high school with the same see-through antics?


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## brian2440 (Mar 16, 2005)

pumpthatiron said:
			
		

> 6-9 extremely intense sets for me...



Yea I got on here reading p-funks journal and I see that I am way overtraining.  I try to get as many sets in an hour as I can.  I guess that is way to much.  Maybe I just need to step intensity up.  In my mind 9 sets in not enough, but I am just a newbie and I am wrong.  Maybe that is why I am so tired all the time?  Could overtraing hinder fat loss?


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## seven11 (Mar 16, 2005)

god damn it... anwser my damn question   hardgainer>>> are they back together????


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 17, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> You are one dumb mother fucker Johnnny.  You stick out like a sore thumb.  You cant shape a muscle, its not possible sorry.  Your right though, everyone here is a joker, you cant be wrong, can you?  Read this, courtesy of belial.



Aw. Someone just can't take what they dish out. Did I really get to you that much? Are you going to take me off your buddy list now? What a big baby you are. 



> The existence of the so-called "upper", "lower", "inner" and "outer" pectorals along with the assertion....
> ....
> 
> ....
> ...



You hear that Arnold? You're a know-nothing amateur! I want my $25 back!


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 17, 2005)

pumpthatiron said:
			
		

> naw hardgainer, that's just because your screen name is kinda whining that you don't grow as fast as most people.  That's why we are trying to help you out with where your problems lie.  36 sets is insanely high.



Or...could it possibly mean that I have to work damn hard for every ounce but that makes it that much more satisfying to me when I see the results? I'd love for someone to point out the post I made describing any problems training or desire for advice considering I never did so. And that would be because no problems exist.

Good thing I didn't call myself "Mr. Ectomorph Here Please Advise". Then I'd *really* get the uninvited personal training from the Coalition of People With Sticks In Their Asses.


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 17, 2005)

V Player said:
			
		

> Yup. Thats johnny alright. Lower pec line....asinine routines....immediate slams on PreMier, whom we all know he hates almost as much as Duncan..... defensiveness right off the bat......and references to his idol, Arnold.



Premier probably gets picked on because he's an abrasive prick. You know, that same tool you meet in every gym who gives you unwanted training advice when you didn't ask for it.

As for your schizophrenia, ask the moderator to publish my IP. You have a lot of military readership from Japan? Doubt it. But if it makes you feel better, do carry on, I insist.


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## Stu (Mar 17, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> I am truly amazed at your ignorance on display regarding "shaping" of muscles, ie sculpting, ie weak point training, ie bringing out definition, separation, and striations through isolation training.


 Im truely amazed at your ignorance basing all your knowledge on one source. Just because you've revised every page of _"Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding by Arnold Schwarzenegger" (_which by the way was written in  1998 making it pretty dated in terms of science) does not make you an expert.

 its strange you posted the following in the brad pitt thread in refference to LAM



			
				DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> Riiight. A 245 lb endo-mesomorph trying to give a 165 lb ectomorph advice on what works best for his body


 And yet here you are in another thread reeling off quotes from a book written by a guy with probably some of the best genetics ever seen in bodybuilding and whos off-season weight was 250-260lbs


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## V Player (Mar 17, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> Premier probably gets picked on because he's an abrasive prick. You know, that same tool you meet in every gym who gives you unwanted training advice when you didn't ask for it.
> 
> As for your schizophrenia, ask the moderator to publish my IP. You have a lot of military readership from Japan? Doubt it. But if it makes you feel better, do carry on, I insist.


Calling PreMier a prick..... just like johnny calls everyone a prick.... then accusing me of a disease whose symptoms dont even begin to resemble I did....



Johnny.




Ok, Damnhardgainer. Its really simple. You want the feuding to stop? You want to be taken seriously? (you obviously do if you keep coming back here or else you wouldnt give a flip) Post a picture with a sign saying you're DHG from IronMagazine.


----------



## min0 lee (Mar 17, 2005)

*Borrowed from Rob*



> Isolating the upper, middle and lower pecs (chest)
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


.


----------



## min0 lee (Mar 17, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> Looking at your shapeless upper chest there, it's no wonder you're amazed. I'm sure you do 25 sets of flat bench.



He seems pretty big to me.  
He must be doing something right.


----------



## min0 lee (Mar 17, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> Page 330, Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding, 1998. Read it sometime. Rumor has it the author actually knows a bit about the subject.



Doesn't Arnold have a ghostwriter do all his writing?


----------



## DOMS (Mar 17, 2005)

stu21Ldn said:
			
		

> Im truely amazed at your ignorance basing all your knowledge on one source. Just because you've revised every page of _"Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding by Arnold Schwarzenegger" (_which by the way was written in  1998 making it pretty dated in terms of science) does not make you an expert.
> 
> its strange you posted the following in the brad pitt thread in refference to LAM
> 
> ...


  Thanks.

  I was just going to tell him to take his ball and go home.

  Or...

  "Begun, the Johnnny Clone Wars, has."


----------



## min0 lee (Mar 17, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> Thanks.
> 
> I was just going to tell him to take his ball and go home.
> 
> ...



This is scary.....you kill one and another "Johnnny" arises.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 17, 2005)

I hate to scare you min0, but there's a whole army of Johnnnys lurking out there...


----------



## min0 lee (Mar 17, 2005)

Sort of like IRobot....  

I really have no problem with people like them at all, I like to hear both sides of the argument but the name calling and cursing is really not needed.

You can learn from good debates but the dissing.....well that's what we have open chat for I guess.

I really disagree with his routine but if he thinks that works for him fine, but if I you hard gainer when you change your routine try doing less and see if you make more gains.
I always change my routines every now and then, the human body adapts very well.


----------



## CancerNV (Mar 17, 2005)

What are "pullovers" and/or "flys"?

I do Bench, Incline Bench, Decline Bench, Peck Deck Machine, and Narrow Grip Bench.  Im not too hot on the narrow grip bench so Im very interested in a new excersize.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 17, 2005)

CancerNV said:
			
		

> What are "pullovers" and/or "flys"?
> 
> I do Bench, Incline Bench, Decline Bench, Peck Deck Machine, and Narrow Grip Bench. Im not too hot on the narrow grip bench so Im very interested in a new excersize.


 Pullover

Fly


----------



## min0 lee (Mar 17, 2005)

CancerNV said:
			
		

> What are "pullovers" and/or "flys"?
> 
> I do Bench, Incline Bench, Decline Bench, Peck Deck Machine, and Narrow Grip Bench.  Im not too hot on the narrow grip bench so Im very interested in a new excersize.



I prefer to use narrow (close) grip bench press for triceps.


----------



## Maynard Keenan (Mar 17, 2005)

flat bench 4 sets
  incline bench 4 sets
  flys 4 sets

  or flat dumbells
  incline dumbells
  deep dips 

  and i switch all these excercises around every chest workout

  i dont fuck with decline too often


----------



## CancerNV (Mar 17, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> I prefer to use narrow (close) grip bench press for triceps.


So does anything hit the middle chest area at least a little bit?


----------



## myCATpowerlifts (Mar 17, 2005)

CancerNV said:
			
		

> So does anything hit the middle chest area at least a little bit?



lol, yea bench press flat

edit- oh do you mean inner chest?
well it doesnt matter all chest movements will "hit" all parts of the chest

Certain moves just emphasize sections more


----------



## M.J.H. (Mar 17, 2005)

Nice post Jake, I remember that thread back from when Belial posted that.


----------



## min0 lee (Mar 17, 2005)

MonStar said:
			
		

> Nice post Jake, I remember that thread back from when Belial posted that.



Whose Jake?


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Mar 17, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> Whose Jake?


PreMier.


----------



## PreMier (Mar 17, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> Aw. Someone just can't take what they dish out. Did I really get to you that much? Are you going to take me off your buddy list now? What a big baby you are.
> 
> 
> 
> You hear that Arnold? You're a know-nothing amateur! I want my $25 back!



I knew you wouldnt have the sense to read that article.  You obviously cant comprehend its complexity.  If you could, you would have realised that Arnolds book is weak when trying to debate such an issue.
 You know, you were banned for a reason.


----------



## PreMier (Mar 17, 2005)

V Player said:
			
		

> Calling PreMier a prick..... just like johnny calls everyone a prick.... then accusing me of a disease whose symptoms dont even begin to resemble I did....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thats a good idea.  Better yet, a sign that says "Johnnny is a little bitch"


----------



## DamnHardGainer (Mar 17, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> I knew you wouldnt have the sense to read that article.  You obviously cant comprehend its complexity.  If you could, you would have realised that Arnolds book is weak when trying to debate such an issue.
> You know, you were banned for a reason.



That's it? I thought you'd have a more spirited rebuttal but instead I'm left disappointed. When the author of that article looks like Arnold did and achieves his level of success, perhaps I consider it more than just one more piece of pointless rhetoric over an issue that is better "debated" by the proof of results. After all, there are still articles out there that claim creatine is a sham. I'm sure they can also be found in your personal library under "fiction".

As for being this guy or that guy, come on, run my IP. I've been stationed in Japan since 2002. It's real simple. I doubt anyone else in the history of this forum was quite as witty and eloquent as myself anyway.


----------



## DamnHardGainer (Mar 17, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> I really disagree with his routine but if he thinks that works for him fine, but if I you hard gainer when you change your routine try doing less and see if you make more gains.
> I always change my routines every now and then, the human body adapts very well.



I've tried that. My routine has grown the way it has because it's the only way I've been able to break through each plateau. So over the years I've had to add more exercises and cut a few out. My problem with such large routines isn't overtraining the muscle anymore, it's the tendonitis I get in my elbows and forearms. If it's particularly bad in a certain week, I cut out a few exercises to lower the load or take a day off.


----------



## PreMier (Mar 17, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> That's it? I thought you'd have a more spirited rebuttal but instead I'm left disappointed. When the author of that article looks like Arnold did and achieves his level of success, perhaps I consider it more than just one more piece of pointless rhetoric over an issue that is better "debated" by the proof of results. After all, there are still articles out there that claim creatine is a sham. I'm sure they can also be found in your personal library under "fiction".
> 
> As for being this guy or that guy, come on, run my IP. I've been stationed in Japan since 2002. It's real simple. I doubt anyone else in the history of this forum was quite as witty and eloquent as myself anyway.



I cant believe you base what you listen to, or even read on what someone looks like.  Thats extremely ignorant IMO.  If you would have read what I posted, then you would have realized that the individual that wrote it, is very well educated on the matter.  Also, how do you know that he is not more successful that Arnold?  You dont.  But instead, you base your petty knowledge off of someone who had good genetics and juiced their brains out.  Do you pop your dbol with a swig of beer too?   Also, you think creatine is a sham?  Since you dont agree with me, and they are in my 'fictional library' I am led to believe you do.  Your ignorance is starting to ooze from your posts now John boy.

As for the IP.  Anyone can get a spoofer, any 12 year old with an internet connection knows that.  The only way to prove otherwise, is like V Playes suggested.  Prove us wrong, and I'll apologise.. but no one is as redundant, and thick headedly stupid as Johnnny.. and your starting to fit the bill nicely.


----------



## DamnHardGainer (Mar 17, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> He seems pretty big to me.
> He must be doing something right.



If I thought "big" was something to admire, I'd consider Ronnie the pinnacle of success in the sport. However shape, separation, definition, and symmetry are far more impressive to me and so I hold Frank Zane and Steve Reeves as my ideal forms instead. That's what I was alluding to.


----------



## DamnHardGainer (Mar 17, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> I cant believe you base what you listen to, or even read on what someone looks like.  Thats extremely ignorant IMO.  If you would have read what I posted, then you would have realized that the individual that wrote it, is very well educated on the matter.  Also, how do you know that he is not more successful that Arnold?  You dont.  But instead, you base your petty knowledge off of someone who had good genetics and juiced their brains out.  Do you pop your dbol with a swig of beer too?   Also, you think creatine is a sham?  Since you dont agree with me, and they are in my 'fictional library' I am led to believe you do.  Your ignorance is starting to ooze from your posts now John boy.
> 
> As for the IP.  Anyone can get a spoofer, any 12 year old with an internet connection knows that.  The only way to prove otherwise, is like V Playes suggested.  Prove us wrong, and I'll apologise.. but no one is as redundant, and thick headedly stupid as Johnnny.. and your starting to fit the bill nicely.



You are really quite lacking in reading comprehension. First off, I compared your article to those silly back-and-forth scientific duels that include whether creatine is a sham. NOT that I believe that, though that should have been obvious from the context. Must I spoon feed you every thing I type in small chewable portions?

Second, any site admin can see through proxies by examining the packets, contacting the proxy admin, etc. I know this as an information systems major, but you apparently do not. You're simply avoiding this because you know I am right. I already invited your site mods to publish my IP or investigate it. Would you like to call Misawa AFB? I bet you're not confident enough to do so because you'll get proven wrong, which of course you know you are.

Lastly, how do I know he's not more successful than Arnold? Gee...could it be because there are about 10 people on this planet that are? Nah.


----------



## DamnHardGainer (Mar 17, 2005)

V Player said:
			
		

> Ok, Damnhardgainer. Its really simple. You want the feuding to stop? You want to be taken seriously? (you obviously do if you keep coming back here or else you wouldnt give a flip) Post a picture with a sign saying you're DHG from IronMagazine.



I love spirited debating. Nothing can be more entertaining than clowning guys like Premier, so please, I insist. I already posted earlier or maybe on the brad pitt thread that I'll get some pics up when I get to Florida. I fly in next week from Japan so as soon as I find a gym membership there I should be able to do so.

But I must decline on the sign. How about: "Premier wishes he looks like me"? Ha! My girlfriend will think this whole thing is quite silly and perhaps a bit childish, but I'm sure she'll be a good sport and take the picture.


----------



## PreMier (Mar 17, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> You are really quite lacking in reading comprehension. First off, I compared your article to those silly back-and-forth scientific duels that include whether creatine is a sham. NOT that I believe that, though that should have been obvious from the context. Must I spoon feed you every thing I type in small chewable portions?
> 
> Second, any site admin can see through proxies by examining the packets, contacting the proxy admin, etc. I know this as an information systems major, but you apparently do not. You're simply avoiding this because you know I am right. I already invited your site mods to publish my IP or investigate it. Would you like to call Misawa AFB? I bet you're not confident enough to do so because you'll get proven wrong, which of course you know you are.
> 
> Lastly, how do I know he's not more successful than Arnold? Gee...could it be because there are about 10 people on this planet that are? Nah.



How can you compare that article to something so trivial as 'scientists' debating the efficiency of creatine?  Especially since you didn't read it..  Maybe if you decided to educate yourself on certain aspects of the sport(read training), then you wouldn't be such a hardgainer.  

You should also know, that the site admin wont release your IP information to the public.  I'm not avoiding anything, tell me your full name, rank, and IP address, along with a number to contact the base at.  I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.  There are plenty of instances where I have been, and I learn from the experience.  You on the other hand obviously do.  Otherwise you would have a stronger argument on 'upper chest isolation' than some quotes from Arnold's book.

There are far more successful people than Arnold.  If you would lift your head out of his lap for a few minutes, you might be able to see that.     

As for clowning, I doubt anyone is laughing.  The simple fact that you base your ideology on training off of someone who trained in the 70's is perplexing.  Just think about it, you have been training for 10 years, and you have gained 40 lbs?  I've done far better in less than the two I have been training, and there is no way I would want to lose 40lbs to look like you.  Hold the sign up, saying whatever you want about me, just do it.  As anyone can post a picture off of the net claiming it is themselves.  This debate has grown pretty unproductive.. you should at least read the article, and enlighten yourself.


----------



## V Player (Mar 18, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> I already posted earlier or maybe on the brad pitt thread that I'll get some pics up when I get to Florida. I fly in next week from Japan so as soon as I find a gym membership there I should be able to do so.


Well.....Im not sure how to take that. See the thing is is that we would all REALLY like for you not to be johnny. But you sure show a lot of similarities. Anyways, the whole debating thing may not altogether stop, but at least you wouldnt have to put up with having to read about that troll. It would cut the arguments and at least leave spirited debate, which PreMier is quite good at I assure you. He is no clown. And Id say that about him even if I didnt like him. 



> But I must decline on the sign. How about: "Premier wishes he looks like me"? Ha!


Eh, well....thats up to you how you want to identify yourself as "not johnny". But you might want to think about getting along with PreMier, he knows his shit and his body proves it. We have yet to see yours so......feel my drift? See Im also like you in a way in that people think my own personal training is overtraining or just plain retarted. I do 100 rep sets, light weight high reps and......oh, never mind. You know the drill; I dont "fit a category". Yet my training still works for me.



Anyways this is not about me. We dont care if the pic is from FLorida or Japan or Timbuktu, just post it identifying yourself so we can all quit calling you johnny and we can get back to real meaningful debate.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 18, 2005)

V Player said:
			
		

> But you might want to think about getting along with PreMier, he knows his shit and his body proves it. We have yet to see yours so......feel my drift?


  This was my thought as well.


----------



## myCATpowerlifts (Mar 18, 2005)

How come everytime a new person comes, who is not an amateur, who has knowledge on BB subjects....etc
How come someone always has to jump on them as soon as they state their opinions??

This is fucking pathetic!

DHG, Just forget them and go on with your business, you seem like a decent guy and you need not waste your time here arguing, because it never goes anywhere

Some of the meatheads on this site need to get a clue and stop badgering, if you dont agree with someone else's opinions, then stop reading them

Dont act childish and argue with them over and over

He said he would have pics, so just wait and see and STFU.


----------



## DamnHardGainer (Mar 19, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> Maybe if you decided to educate yourself on certain aspects of the sport(read training), then you wouldn't be such a hardgainer.



Nah, the solution is to eat 800 calories 10 times a day to become Ronnie Coleman, remember?? Actually, fuck that...let's all just hook up to an IV and get fed protein/carb serum around the clock and we'll all be in the Arnold Classic in no time!   



> You should also know, that the site admin wont release your IP information to the public.  I'm not avoiding anything, tell me your full name, rank, and IP address, along with a number to contact the base at.



The site admin won't release IP information to the public? Oh, don't give me that crap. That is the worst excuse I have every heard as you know very well that this is not an ISP therefore the site admin is not subject to information privacy laws. You, I, and every other user on this site is a guest on this site's server and therefore relinquished our rights to IP privacy as soon as we opened the page up in our browser. IP's don't mean shit. That's why you can ping/whois anyone on the net and grab it. First time on the internet?

About releasing my personal information, you MUST be high. Do you really think that I would take some anonymous moron like you so seriously that I'd release my personal info on the internet? Really? I suppose you'll require my date of birth, social security number, and next of kin as well! Here's an idea: you release to me your personal info, that being your name and address -- that will allow me to pull your tax history off public records to verify your identity. Then I will give you mine. Agree? Until then here's a better way:

Quit making excuses and ask the site admin my IP and tell him to do a full packet check on my traffic. And while you're doing that, call this number 81-0176-53-5181, then dial 226-1397, ask the person who answers to look on the day shift schedule and tell you whether Carter is running the shift that day. If they ask you who you are, tell them you're some dumbass from Iron Magazine forums....lol...actually that truth will only have them report your suspicious call to the comm squadron, so say you're a new recruit that just got in on the "freedom bird". Got it?

You want the number to the Mokuteki? They have a really sweet onion and mushroom burger! Best on base.



> The simple fact that you base your ideology on training off of someone who trained in the 70's is perplexing.



Riiiight. Because the human body has evolved in the 30 years since.   



> Just think about it, you have been training for 10 years, and you have gained 40 lbs?  I've done far better in less than the two I have been training



Two years? That would explain the immaturity of your muscle development. And this whole time I thought I was talking to someone who actually had some experience under his belt. Now how am I supposed to even try to take you seriously? If you ask nicely I'll put a good routine together for you, but as you can see, I doubt you'd be able to last 2 weeks on mine.


----------



## DamnHardGainer (Mar 19, 2005)

V Player said:
			
		

> Eh, well....thats up to you how you want to identify yourself as "not johnny". But you might want to think about getting along with PreMier, he knows his shit and his body proves it. We have yet to see yours so......feel my drift? See Im also like you in a way in that people think my own personal training is overtraining or just plain retarted. I do 100 rep sets, light weight high reps and......oh, never mind. You know the drill; I dont "fit a category". Yet my training still works for me.



Then you would agree that everyone is different. Everyone's body responds differently to various training techniques. Anyone who has been training religiously for years should understand through hard work and mixed results on how best their body responds to weight training. If you do 100 rep sets and light weight and that works for you, you won't find me criticizing your routine. I don't know you and even that avatar pic doesn't tell me anything about your history, your diet, your base body weight, fat %, etc.

It really doesn't matter to me who anyone thinks I am. I gave enough info to prove I know info that can only be gained by personal familiarity with a workplace, without revealing my personal information which I won't do. I look forward to getting some pics up soon and welcome all the criticism you can dish out, as I am always looking to build up my weak areas like forearms and legs. It's the internet so I don't take any of it personal.


----------



## DamnHardGainer (Mar 19, 2005)

myCATpowerlifts said:
			
		

> How come everytime a new person comes, who is not an amateur, who has knowledge on BB subjects....etc
> How come someone always has to jump on them as soon as they state their opinions??
> 
> This is fucking pathetic!
> ...



I should have read this post first instead of working my way down. I found this is common on many forums. I usually have fun with it - I suspect people engage in flame wars to harmlessly vent. New guys are always good targets. But you're right, this isn't going anywhere. Give me a week or two to get settled in Florida and take some pics, then we can compare.


----------



## CowPimp (Mar 19, 2005)

I'm not getting into a big argument, but I figured I would post my chest routine.  I currently do 2 sets of flat bench press and 1 set of decline press 3 times per week.  I am currently 10 pounds heavier than in my pictures, but probably a few pounds of that is fat, and another couple water.  I'm hoping I gained a minmum of 3 pounds of pure muscle.


----------



## V Player (Mar 19, 2005)

myCATpowerlifts said:
			
		

> How come everytime a new person comes, who is not an amateur, who has knowledge on BB subjects....etc
> How come someone always has to jump on them as soon as they state their opinions??
> 
> This is fucking pathetic!
> ...


Isnt this exactly what maybe you need to do on this thread? I mean, you're also coming on here and doing the same thing in a manner of speaking. I mean...Im just sayin.

And for the record, I wasnt treated this way whenever I first came. I do admit that I dont give alot of advise, but what I have given has not been slammed. I come here to relax, I give more than enough advise elsewhere. 




			
				DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> Then you would agree that everyone is different. Everyone's body responds differently to various training techniques.


Oh I know that. That was never the subject of what I was trying to talk to you about. I was just saying that I know what its like to be the oddball.


			
				DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> It really doesn't matter to me who anyone thinks I am.


Oh I hear ya. But  in this case, maybe it would be wise to make an exception. See, its not neccessarily that anyone has to prove anything to anyone, its that ..... well..... dude, you're just going to have to do some research on "johnnny". Yeah, with three Ns. This is the very worst of the online trolls that you will ever see and quite frankly, if some people keep thinking you are him, your stay here may not be as pleasant as it could be. I mean, I know you dont care what people thibnk about you, but admit it, it would be nice to not have ONE MORE THING to argue about than neccessary. Hell, Ive been where you're at before on my home board. Im still an oddball over there. But since my training gets results, Ive been able to shut the mouths of a lot of meatheads myself and now, ironicaly, they come to ME for advise. All I mean by that is that spirited debates about routines and beliefs have a better chance to stay within those paremeters than having them get sidetracked due to people thinking you are that troll johnnny. Thats all. Everyone IS different, and even PreMier knows that, but its hard to take anyone seriously when we think its johnny, thats all. If you indeed are not him, I dont care if you do 10000 sets per body part. If you're getting results, then you are very welcome here as far as Im concerned and Im sure some people will at least not slam you. 







And on that note........Folks, he's starting to sound less and less like johnny now. Johnny does not have the extended vocabulary that DHG seems to have, nor the reasoning capabilities either.


----------



## myCATpowerlifts (Mar 19, 2005)

V Player said:
			
		

> Isnt this exactly what maybe you need to do on this thread? I mean, you're also coming on here and doing the same thing in a manner of speaking. I mean...Im just sayin.




Actually, it's much different.  I wasn't jumping on people for their OPINIONS on BODYBUILDING.
I was jumping on people because they are a dick.


----------



## myCATpowerlifts (Mar 19, 2005)

V Player said:
			
		

> And on that note........Folks, he's starting to sound less and less like johnny now. Johnny does not have the extended vocabulary that DHG seems to have, nor the reasoning capabilities either.



Im suprised it took someone this long to figure that out.


----------



## V Player (Mar 19, 2005)

myCATpowerlifts said:
			
		

> Actually, it's much different.  I wasn't jumping on people for their OPINIONS on BODYBUILDING.
> I was jumping on people because they are a dick.


Jumping is jumping. I dont see where being "different" makes you less wrong or more right. I mean, Im just sayin.



			
				myCATpowerlifts said:
			
		

> Im suprised it took someone this long to figure that out.


Not neccessarily. Not if you are as familiar with johnny as I am. You forget that he makes up many, many acounts with which to haunt the internet with. At times he has shown quite the ability to hide himself in the first few posts, but he ultimately does hang himself. Its DHGs consistency with logic that makes me think otherwise now. Johnny does not have the mental fortitude to pull it off this long when faced with continued speculation.


----------



## SlimShady (Mar 19, 2005)

Did I say I love to do cable crossovers? ... I think I did. Oh well, time to fire up the Soldano and grab the LP.


----------



## V Player (Mar 19, 2005)

Well.....Ive never done this, but in the spirit of getting this thread back on track, here's a glimpse of one of my chest workouts out of my journal back on my home board.


> Semi-decline chest presses:
> 200 x 6
> 210 x 6
> 230 x 5
> ...




But most often I do  2 rounds of 100 reps with anywhere from 120 to 150, depending on how I feel.


----------



## min0 lee (Mar 19, 2005)

V Player said:
			
		

> And on that note........Folks, he's starting to sound less and less like johnny now. Johnny does not have the extended vocabulary that DHG seems to have, nor the reasoning capabilities either.


I agree with that bigtime.

We should all agree to disagree, I don't agree with his training  method but if it works for him so be it.


----------



## V Player (Mar 19, 2005)

Werd.


----------



## min0 lee (Mar 19, 2005)

*Flat bench press*
12 x 135 for warm ups
10 x 225
  8 x 235
  6 x 245
  4 x 255
  4 to 8 x225  I wish I had a spotter.

*Incline bench press * 
10 x 135
 8 x 185
 6 x 195 
 6 x 205
 6 x 215

*Decline bench press*
8 x 185
6 x 195 
6 x 205
6 x 215

I alternate dips with declines every now and then, but ever since I broke my collar certain exercises like dips and uprights hurt so I shy away from them

If I have time I do 10 sets of flyes or pec deck.

This is what I do for the winter bulking season for a month I hit the chest twice a week.
On Mondays I go heavy and on Thursdays I go real light. 
 Go ahead criticize me....I'm bullet proof


----------



## DOMS (Mar 19, 2005)

min0, if you don't mind me asking, how did you break your collarbone?

 Oh yeah, and the concept of you actually doing bodybuilding is starting to kinda freak me out.


----------



## min0 lee (Mar 19, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> min0, if you don't mind me asking, how did you break your collarbone?
> 
> Oh yeah, and the concept of you actually doing bodybuilding is starting to kinda freak me out.


My kids were racing and the youngest one was losing the race so I tried to help him win the race by me picking him up and running with him, I hit a crack and tripped while holding him.

I didn't want to fall on him (185 lbs. vs. 30 lbs.) so I leaped over him head first trying to land on my back (when I was lighter I did it with ease) but instead I landed on my collar bone breaking it and tearing ligaments.

This was 3 years ago when I started training again, yes I trained thru it but at the time I didn't know it was broken. What can I say....I am a tough SOB


----------



## DamnHardGainer (Mar 20, 2005)

V Player said:
			
		

> Everyone IS different, and even PreMier knows that, but its hard to take anyone seriously when we think its johnny, thats all. If you indeed are not him, I dont care if you do 10000 sets per body part. If you're getting results, then you are very welcome here as far as Im concerned and Im sure some people will at least not slam you.



I agree with what you said. Meanwhile I'm in the midst of packing for my flight out this Wednesday and am quite busy so I won't have the luxury of engaging in much more of this back and forth banter for perhaps 10 days (much to Premier's chagrin, I'm sure!). I'll hold up to my word at that time.


----------



## P-funk (Mar 20, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> *Flat bench press*
> 12 x 135 for warm ups
> 10 x 225
> 8 x 235
> ...






why can't you get a spotter?? i thought you train at balley?  isn't there someone working out that can give you a spot for a sec?


----------



## min0 lee (Mar 20, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> why can't you get a spotter?? i thought you train at balley?  isn't there someone working out that can give you a spot for a sec?



I don't like to ask anyone for a spot for several reasons

1- I hate to trouble people, dunno I have alway's been that way.

2- I have found very few people who know how to spot, I hate when they practically yank the bar away from me.

3- I try to keep my distance from people at the gym, I am not a chatty person at the gym and I have only an hour to work out, some people don't know when to shut up.


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## myCATpowerlifts (Mar 20, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> I don't like to ask anyone for a spot for several reasons
> 
> *1- I hate to trouble people, dunno I have alway's been that way.*



That's me! I hate asking people, especially if I have to more than once, I feel as if I'm being a horrible annoyance...so I can't bring myself to ask

Im the same way on the phone, I have to have people call me, because I can't call....I feel like im being annoying if i call 2 times or more


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 21, 2005)

I put up one picture of my weakest body part for now: my legs. They are the last place I am trying to build up to catch up with my upper body and the least developed part of me. My goal is to add up to 10 lbs more on them and I'll be happy. I couldnt take the picture any further away since my remote is only 3 feet long.

Sorry for bad pic quality but I have a crappy digital cam at 640x480. I fly to FL tomorrow so I'll take some better pics there with a real camera. But I thought I'd at least show my weakest development first.  

Feel free to criticize. But remember my personal goal is for aesthetics...I'm going for the build of those guys on boxes of underwear. Beach physique basically. I feel like I'm almost there but need some more leg, forearm, and rear delt development. I show what I mean with more pics soon.


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## V Player (Mar 21, 2005)

Well Im certainly not going to criticize..... 



Damn.....forgot all about this thread. 




If you're going for a beach physique, you're probably not johnny. He was always going for super mass and his "decent power and condition". Gotta hand it to ya, you put up a not so good pic, but at least you put up. Props.


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## AndrewSS (Mar 21, 2005)

i do:

Flat bench (barbell) : 2 warm up sets, 3 or 4 working

Decline/Incline (barbell, switch those two each week) : 2 warm up sets, 3 or 4 working

Flys (machine/dumbbell) : 1 warm up, 3 or 4 working

Pushups : 2 or 3 sets


I should add dips and i might add that pullover exercise soon though


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 21, 2005)

V Player said:
			
		

> If you're going for a beach physique, you're probably not johnny. He was always going for super mass and his "decent power and condition". Gotta hand it to ya, you put up a not so good pic, but at least you put up. Props.



Super mass on me is impossible. I have to stick with what within what's realistic for my body. I always thought Mark Wahlberg had a great physique, particularly in movie's where he doesn't diet down...such as Basketball Diaries, Perfect Storm, and Three Kings.

That pic sucks because the detail is washed out but basically I have my quad separation going but I need more mass. Only been hitting legs hard for 18 months though. I was one of those fools who only worked upper body for years. I regret that now but what can I say, I was stationed in cold environments for 6 years and never showed my legs.


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## ihateschoolmt (Mar 21, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> Super mass on me is impossible. I have to stick with what within what's realistic for my body.


 Why don't you take gear?


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## min0 lee (Mar 21, 2005)

ihateschoolmt said:
			
		

> Why don't you take gear?


It's not for everyone.


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## ihateschoolmt (Mar 21, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> It's not for everyone.


 I was really asking him, it wasn't retorical.


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## V Player (Mar 21, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> Super mass on me is impossible. I have to stick with what within what's realistic for my body. I always thought Mark Wahlberg had a great physique, particularly in movie's where he doesn't diet down...such as Basketball Diaries, Perfect Storm, and Three Kings.


If I had that body type, Id go for the Wahlberg look myself. But I dont. So Im gonna stick to trying to look like Batista by the end of the year


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## min0 lee (Mar 21, 2005)

ihateschoolmt said:
			
		

> I was really asking him, it wasn't retorical.


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## ihateschoolmt (Mar 21, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

>








 I didn't mean it like that, I just ment I wanted to know the exact reason he has for not taking them.


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## min0 lee (Mar 21, 2005)

ihateschoolmt said:
			
		

> I didn't mean it like that, I just ment I wanted to know the exact reason he has for not taking them.


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 21, 2005)

ihateschoolmt said:
			
		

> Why don't you take gear?



I don't believe in steroid use. I think it's unnatural, potentially dangerous, and nothing but a shortcut in lieu of hard work and dedication for anyone that isn't a pro bodybuilder. I'll just have to work with what I was born with. Besides, my goals aren't to become massive so I wouldn't need steroids. The advantage of a slim build like mine is that after you put on 30 or 40 lbs it looks very good to most people. I'm happy with that and when I finish my legs up I'll be content...then it's easy street for me and all I have to do is maintain what I have!


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## ihateschoolmt (Mar 21, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> I think it's unnatural, potentially dangerous, and nothing but a shortcut in lieu of hard work and dedication for anyone that isn't a pro bodybuilder.


 It isn't dangerous if taken properly, and it still take a hell of a lot of hard work to get results, but to each his own. I am in a similar situlation, my legs look like shit, and it's not because I don't train them. Hoping to add 20-30 pounds on them sooner or later.


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## V Player (Mar 21, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> I don't believe in steroid use. I think it's unnatural, potentially dangerous, *and nothing but a shortcut in lieu of hard work and dedication for anyone that isn't a pro bodybuilder.*


Well, the first part is correct. I will respectfully disagree with the last part, however. No I dont take steroids, but if I could I would. I too once thought that they were a shortcut but found out I was badly mistaken once I educated myself on them. They are most definately not a shortcut because even more discipline to diet and training is required for their use or the whole cycle is down the toilet. 


But yes, to each his own. Im certanily not here to convince anyone of anything, least of all to try them. But you certainly seem to dedicate yourself to all things proper when it comes to fitness. So at least educate yourself on them, if not for anything but to understand the misconceptions. Some of which you have. Knowledge and truth hurts nothing.


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## pampotch (Mar 21, 2005)

whats the use of dumbell pullovers??? i just hit my chest but forgot to include it.


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 21, 2005)

pampotch said:
			
		

> whats the use of dumbell pullovers??? i just hit my chest but forgot to include it.



Primary: Lats and serratus. Secondary: Triceps

I do them with back days but that's just my personal preference.


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 21, 2005)

V Player said:
			
		

> So at least educate yourself on them, if not for anything but to understand the misconceptions. Some of which you have. Knowledge and truth hurts nothing.



I understand that steroids can be taken safely under proper doctoral supervision, however since they are illegal the safest way to take them cannot in most cases be followed. That's why I said "potentially" dangerous. I don't think anyone can argue that the potential is there since the dangers of steroid misuse and/or abuse are well documented.

I just don't care to mess with my body's natural hormone levels. Supplementing with external hormones causes the body to try and compensate and diminish its own natural production. If you cease juicing, it takes a while for the levels to return to normal, and some people just aren't ever completely the same again. That to me is not worth it.

You mentioned earlier that your goal is to be like Batista in your sig. Well in that case I believe juicing is a necessity even though you look like you're starting from a good body type to do so.


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 21, 2005)

ihateschoolmt said:
			
		

> I am in a similar situlation, my legs look like shit, and it's not because I don't train them.



Are you saying my legs look like shit? Granted they aren't Tom Platz tree trunks are anything but they aren't shit. Even in that grainy pic you can still see some separation and shape to my quads. They definately don't look untrained and you'd be the first person to say so.


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## V Player (Mar 22, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> I understand that steroids can be taken safely under proper doctoral supervision, however since they are illegal the safest way to take them cannot in most cases be followed. That's why I said "potentially" dangerous. I don't think anyone can argue that the potential is there since the dangers of steroid misuse and/or abuse are well documented.
> 
> I just don't care to mess with my body's natural hormone levels. Supplementing with external hormones causes the body to try and compensate and diminish its own natural production. If you cease juicing, it takes a while for the levels to return to normal, and some people just aren't ever completely the same again. That to me is not worth it.
> 
> You mentioned earlier that your goal is to be like Batista in your sig. Well in that case I believe juicing is a necessity even though you look like you're starting from a good body type to do so.


Hey I appreciate the compliment. 

Yes, you are right about the body compensating and it taking a while to for test levels to return to normal. Thats why the intelligent person follows proper Post Cycle Therapy. But its not true about never being completely the same again. I think you are probably thinking of those pros that seriously abuse them. And it IS possible to take them safely without doctoral supervision even if they ARE illegal. Otherwise I wouldnt be open minded to taking them.

But yeah.....all that is not worth it for some people, thats why I will never try and talk anyone into using them. All I say though, is at least learn about them so that misconceptions do not cloud judgement. Not for potential future use, but just for basic knowledge.



But back on topic. Someone mentioned pullovers. Have you ever gotten anything from them? I havent, but I do like the way they feel. I know its because I dont do them right, but I have other exercises that I know I can do right so I just stick with those.


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 22, 2005)

V Player said:
			
		

> But back on topic. Someone mentioned pullovers. Have you ever gotten anything from them? I havent, but I do like the way they feel. I know its because I dont do them right, but I have other exercises that I know I can do right so I just stick with those.



I love pullovers but I do them lengthwise along a bench rather than across the bench as many others do. The reason is because I use about 2/3's my body weight for the db and I almost tip over otherwise...I like a good stretch in the lats so I like to extend really low almost to the floor. Lengthwise pullovers lets me hook my ankles around the legs of the bench and concentrate more on form than balance.

I definately benefit from them in the serratus. I read in one of arnold's books that he used to do them mostly as a chest expanding exercise though. He said that the medical community believes it isn't possible to stretch the cartilage in the rib cage after reaching adulthood but he swears that it does through his own observations and experience. I really have no idea about who is right. I just do them to target the serratus because I like how they look like fingers when they're well developed.


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## DamnHardGainer (Mar 22, 2005)

By the way, I had my last chest workout yesterday before I catch that plane but I had to use a local Japanese gym. Well the locals are more into lighter lifting and aerobics so they don't have lots of weights and only one bb bench. Their db rack only goes to 44 lbs! So I had to improvise to make up for less variety.

So I went heavy with bb flat benching which I usually do after db sets for burnouts. I also used some weird standing incline bench they have for incline bb benching. It was much harder standing and doing inclines. Then I had to use the 44 lb dbs to do a hell of a lot of incline, flat, and decline flyes. Then some nautilus machine benching and butterflys. So basically, it was half my normal chest workout...I concentrated on extra intensity, flexing my pecs hard on the peak of each rep. Anyway, today I am pretty sore which surprised me. I must have really shocked my body.

Next week in FL I'm going to hit up my regular 36 set chest routine again and see if I lost strength on my db flat benches that I start with, due to this week's shorter workout. If I didn't and can still hit my maxes, then there is some merit to me overtraining and I should change up my routine. Otherwise I'm going to have to stick with high volume. I'll update on this then.


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## BigDyl (Mar 22, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> Doesn't Arnold have a ghostwriter do all his writing?




Not can he isolate the upper chest, but he can communicate with the dead?


Ghost writer... that was like my favorite show dude...


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## Leatherface (Mar 22, 2005)

Whether or not Pullovers hit primarily the chest or the lats depends on how you do them.

If you lie across a bench and keep your butt low; bring the dumbell as far back as the back of your head and no further; then bring it forward to the center of your chest and squeeze your pecs you will hit the chest.

If you lie lengthwise on the bench and bring the dumbell back as far as it goes until it almost touches the ground then it primarily hits the lats and the chest.

BTW, when doing pullovers for the lats I prefer straight arm pulldowns with a serious lean into the machine for complete range of motion.

Just my opinion.


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## westb51 (Mar 22, 2005)

Leatherface said:
			
		

> Whether or not Pullovers hit primarily the chest or the lats depends on how you do them.
> 
> If you lie across a bench and keep your butt low; bring the dumbell as far back as the back of your head and no further; then bring it forward to the center of your chest and squeeze your pecs you will hit the chest.
> 
> ...


i also think it depends on how far your elbows are apart.


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## min0 lee (Mar 22, 2005)

BigDyl said:
			
		

> Not can he isolate the upper chest, but he can communicate with the dead?
> 
> 
> Ghost writer... that was like my favorite show dude...


2 entries found for ghostwriter.
ghost·writ·er    
One who writes for and gives credit of authorship to another. 

ghostwriter

n : a writer who gives the credit of authorship to someone else [syn: ghost]


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## ihateschoolmt (Mar 22, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> Are you saying my legs look like shit? Granted they aren't Tom Platz tree trunks are anything but they aren't shit. Even in that grainy pic you can still see some separation and shape to my quads. They definately don't look untrained and you'd be the first person to say so.


 No I'm saying I'm trying to add alot of mass to them, like you are.


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## min0 lee (Mar 22, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> . Their db rack only goes to 44 lbs! .


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## myCATpowerlifts (Mar 22, 2005)

"Our penis so small, American have big penis! big penis!"  - Southpark...

I know it has nothing to do with the topic, but...
Japanese are on average smaller, and thus probably a bit weaker (I'm not stereotyping, its just my opinion)
So that could be one reason why the dumbells were so light


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## BigDyl (Mar 22, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> 2 entries found for ghostwriter.
> ghost·writ·er
> One who writes for and gives credit of authorship to another.
> 
> ...




 :bounce:


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## LAM (Mar 22, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> I read in one of arnold's books that he used to do them mostly as a chest expanding exercise though. He said that the medical community believes it isn't possible to stretch the cartilage in the rib cage after reaching adulthood but he swears that it does through his own observations and experience. I really have no idea about who is right. I just do them to target the serratus because I like how they look like fingers when they're well developed.



citing info from any of Arnold's books is the best way to lose credibility around here. lol


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## LAM (Mar 22, 2005)

DamnHardGainer said:
			
		

> Next week in FL I'm going to hit up my regular 36 set chest routine again



you may want to start doing some research on high volume training and serum cortisol


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