# Creatine



## Burrn (Apr 26, 2013)

Yes I know there are more articles on this than in the library of congress.....but.

Has creatine gone the way of the dinosaur? It seems the hype has dwindled. Is anybody still doing it? I frequent a large Gold's gym and there are few and far between using it.


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## heavylifting1 (Apr 26, 2013)

I don't use it with things like Anavar or Dianabol theres no need to, well for me atleast.


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## CaptainNapalm (Apr 26, 2013)

Yup, I still use it with great results.


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## longworthb (Apr 26, 2013)

Doesn't seem as popular as it use to be but I still use it. Always post workout


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## dave 236 (Apr 26, 2013)

Its still in wide spread use. It just isn't talked about as much anymore. I think its pretty much assumed most people who train regularly use it. 

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2


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## Burrn (Apr 26, 2013)

Thanks guys. It has some perks, I guess.


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## Dr.G (Apr 26, 2013)

i don't use it at all , tried it but no real results besides water retention, and  i am convinced that it is bad for your kidneys in the long run. at least it is my point of view: i go for the least amount of supplements you can get away with. i have tried everything and after 36 years in the gym i see no significant evidence of better results with supplements vs a healthy diet.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Apr 26, 2013)

Burrn said:


> Yes I know there are more articles on this than in the library of congress.....but.
> 
> Has creatine gone the way of the dinosaur? It seems the hype has dwindled. Is anybody still doing it? I frequent a large Gold's gym and there are few and far between using it.



Creatine is one of the few real deals.  There no hype about it, just facts.  

Very few individuals at gym have a clue about anything.  So, it no wonder those that take it are "few and far between". 

Kenny Croxdale


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## longworthb (Apr 26, 2013)

I've used it for as long as I can remember. Started in highschool and its always been part of my post workout plus I've used the same brand that taste amazing lol


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## Kenny Croxdale (Apr 26, 2013)

Dr.G said:


> i don't use it at all , tried it but no real results besides water retention, and  i am convinced that it is bad for your kidneys in the long run. at least it is my point of view:



 *Non-Responders*

Some individuals are non-responders. Thus, if it didn't work for you, you appear to be a non-responder. 

However, the majority of individuals who use it get a postive bounce out of using it: Increase in Strength and Power. 

*Water Retension*

The water retension is "Cell Volumizing", a superhydration of the muscle cells.  

The superhydration provide an anabolic enviroment for muscle growth. 

The superhydration of the muscle cells allows athlete to produce more force, strength.  

*Cycling*

Creatine is usually cycled, being on it for about 4 weeks and off for 4 weeks.  

Once you stop using creatine, what water weight you have gained is lost. 

No longer term use of creatine when cycled or used intermittently has been shown to create health problems. 



Dr.G said:


> i go for the least amount of supplements you can get away with. i have tried everything and after 36 years in the gym i see no significant evidence of better results with supplements vs a healthy diet.



Some supplements are effective and some arn't.  

Blaket statement that generalize all supplements says nothing.

Kenny Croxdale


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## Booby (Apr 26, 2013)

I use creatine and always get great results from it...I cycle on and off and usuually get back on to blast past plateaus...The first week on creatine i always put on atleast 10lbs of water which always makes my max lifts go up, and my reps always increase...Before someone says anything its intramuscular water weight not subqutaneous...I love creatine and its one of the few store bought supplements that really work.


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## gman10 (Apr 27, 2013)

With ALL the other shit that's in pre,post and protein shakes I can't tell the difference anymore. However, creatine was the first supp I took years ago(phosfogen hp) and I clearly remember it made a noticeable difference in the endurance of my last few reps of a set.....


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## CaptainNapalm (Apr 27, 2013)

Dr.G said:


> i don't use it at all , tried it but no real results besides water retention, and  i am convinced that it is bad for your kidneys in the long run. at least it is my point of view: i go for the least amount of supplements you can get away with. i have tried everything and after 36 years in the gym i see no significant evidence of better results with supplements vs a healthy diet.



There is no such thing as "supplements vs a healthy diet".  Supplements (such as creatine) are there to compliment/supplement your diet, not replace it.  Protein and Creatine supplements are designed to provide you with high quality levels of the compound, without that unwanted byproducts you'd have oversaturated yourself with if you got the same from food.  Creatine is proven to increase performance and getting the required amount to make a difference from "healthy diet" will likely have you eating away on steak all day like it's jellybean candy.


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## Burrn (Apr 27, 2013)

Good stuff guys. Kenny: thanks for the "in depth". I certainly could use more energy and stamina these days.


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## Dr.G (Apr 27, 2013)

CaptainNapalm said:


> There is no such thing as "supplements vs a healthy diet".  Supplements (such as creatine) are there to compliment/supplement your diet, not replace it.  Protein and Creatine supplements are designed to provide you with high quality levels of the compound, without that unwanted byproducts you'd have oversaturated yourself with if you got the same from food.  Creatine is proven to increase performance and getting the required amount to make a difference from "healthy diet" will likely have you eating away on steak all day like it's jellybean candy.


i believe you can get all you need from food, at least this works for me, If I can get away from all the artificial ingredients that come with the supplements then  it is good I guess.  as  I said earlier I have not seen any difference with or without supplements  the essential is to get the nutrients you need, anything extra will do more harm than good.


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## dave 236 (Apr 27, 2013)

Dr.G said:


> i believe you can get all you need from food, at least this works for me, If I can get away from all the artificial ingredients that come with the supplements then  it is good I guess.  as  I said earlier I have not seen any difference with or without supplements  the essential is to get the nutrients you need, anything extra will do more harm than good.



The fact is many people do benefit from certain supplements. Creatine has many benefits that have been proven in numerous peer reviewed studies. You apparently are against the use of such things. Let's just go on record and stipulate that fact. Hell maybe we can make it a sticky so you don't have to insinuate your opinions on the evils of vit C or what ever in every thread Seine posts asking for advice on these things. In other words we get it. You don't like it. 

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2


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## Booby (Apr 27, 2013)

You would have to consume 10lbs of beef a day to get the same amount of creatine in 1 teaspoon of supplement powder.


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## CaptainNapalm (Apr 27, 2013)

Dr.G said:


> i believe you can get all you need from food, at least this works for me, If I can get away from all the artificial ingredients that come with the supplements then  it is good I guess.  as  I said earlier I have not seen any difference with or without supplements  the essential is to get the nutrients you need, anything extra will do more harm than good.



My friend, everything we eat these days is in some form artificial or at least contains artificial ingredients to some degree.. unless you farm your own food in your backyard.  I agree with you, a lot of what people take is unnecessary however I've eaten extremely clean and high protein diet (rich in nutrients) and I could never quite lift as much as I could when taking creatine.  Therefore, I can tell you from my experience that you can't get all you need from a "healthy diet", you can do more by supplementing right.  But hey that's just me.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Apr 28, 2013)

Dr.G said:


> i believe you can get all you need from food, at least this works for me, If I can get away from all the artificial ingredients that come with the supplements then  it is good I guess.  as  I said earlier I have not seen any difference with or without supplements  the essential is to get the nutrients you need, anything extra will do more harm than good.



*"I Believe"*

The inferance of "I believe" means that it comes you guessing and having nothing to really back it up.   

*The Evil Axis of Supplements*

You really want to keep this flapjack on the grill.  That being...

1) Alls supplements come with artificial ingredients.

So, what artificial ingredient is in creatine?  

Generalized statements with nothing to back them up have no meaning.  

Because I said work for a child but not for most adults.  

2) Taking "anything extra will do more harm than good".   

The inferance here is "Everything in moderation".  However, ...

*Moderation = Mediocrity*

No one every got anywhere without pushing the limits.  It is a balancing act of trying to push the limit without going too far over or running it in the red for too long. 

*Survive or Thrive*

The Recommended Daily Allowance for protein is about .8 gram per kg of body weight.  

That means a 90 kg (198 lb) adult would need to consume 72 gram per day. 

Reserch has demonstrated that those training hard need to consume around 1.2 - 2 gram per kg of body weight.  

That means a 90 kg adult training hard would need 108 -180 gram per day.  

*Protein Supplements*

Consuming 180 gram of protein a day via food is difficult.  Consuming protein supplements makes it easier.  

Not only that but you can select the right protein for the right job.  Whey is anabolic.  Caseinate is anti-catabolic.  

*Naplam Nailed *

_There is no such thing as "supplements vs a healthy diet". Supplements (such as creatine) are there to compliment/supplement your diet, not replace it. Protein and Creatine supplements are designed to provide you with high quality levels of the compound, without that unwanted by products you'd have oversaturated yourself with if you got the same from food. Creatine is proven to increase performance and getting the required amount to make a difference from "healthy diet" will likely have you eating away on steak all day like it's jellybean candy._

*"Complement Your Diet"*

I love how Napalm stated this.  

One of the purposed of supplement is to create a synergistic training effect.  2 + 2 = 5! 

In other words..._Creatine + Hard Training = Bigger, Stronger Muscles_

*Creatine Health Benefits*

Creatine has a mutlitide of health benefits.  So, it not just for those who train. 

Creatine is one of THE most research supplements on the market, so it not hard to find data on the health beneifts. 

*Choices*

There a lot of hyped supplement on the market.  

However, some supplements deliver on their promise.  

The key is finding which ones enhance one training response.  

Part of this form is about is trading information and learning from other what works and doesn't work.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## dirtwarrior (Apr 28, 2013)

What is the proper way to get the most out of creatine


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## fit26 (Apr 28, 2013)

Creatine should be completely dissolve in hot water before taking in, or you are wasting your money.  I stir it in hot water or hot tea until it becomes clear, then drink it, followed by protein and dextrose.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Apr 28, 2013)

dirtwarrior said:


> What is the proper way to get the most out of creatine



What is commonly recommended is that creatine be mixed with a high glycemc index carbohydrate.  You can google information on it. 

However, from what I have seen there appear to be three type of individuals when it comes to creatine (as well as other things). 

1) Non-Reponders.  No matter how these individuals use creatine, it's not going to work for them.  

Unfortunaltely, I am a Non-Reponder. 

2) Normal Responders.  These individuals obtain some degree of results from using creatine when it is consumed under the right conditions.  

3) Super Repsonders.  No matter how or when these individuals take creatine, the get a huge positive bounce from it.  

I had friend in this catagory.  Not matter what he mixed creatine in or when he took it, he got basically overnight results.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## Dr.G (Apr 28, 2013)

CaptainNapalm said:


> My friend, everything we eat these days is in some form artificial or at least contains artificial ingredients to some degree.. unless you farm your own food in your backyard.  I agree with you, a lot of what people take is unnecessary however I've eaten extremely clean and high protein diet (rich in nutrients) and I could never quite lift as much as I could when taking creatine.  Therefore, I can tell you from my experience that you can't get all you need from a "healthy diet", you can do more by supplementing right.  But hey that's just me.


 true that is why you should avoid any artificial stuff as much as possible. i respect your your opinion.but as far as i am concerned i  have used all kinds of stuff you can ever think of and after 36+ years of training i stopped all kinds of supplements besides multivitamins from time to time and  with a healthy natural diet i am much better than ever, even better than when i took steroids believe it or not, not as cut but i feel much better, i don't even know how much protein a day i eat , i eat meat with moderation and concentrate on vegetables. i don't believe in wasting my time calculating how many grams of protein i ate this day and that day, what makes a difference for me is intelligent training.
and perhaps as Kenny said i do not respond to creatine  but in general creatine supplementation for a long time  can lead to kidney problems i have seen it with my own eyes.


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## theCaptn' (Apr 28, 2013)

The supplement industry loves the term 'non-responder'. It's a great cop-out for selling worthless crap and hoping the placebo-effect kicks in.

Yes there is a lot of research on creatine, I don't doubt it works. It appears I'm a 'non-responder' but I take it anyway cause its cheap. I don't feel vitamins or fish oil either but I trust the science and take them anyway


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## fit26 (Apr 28, 2013)

It works for me.  I work out empty stomach but still have lots energy.  I take it post workout with hot water or hot tea.


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## Intense (Apr 28, 2013)

It's not popular on these forums because everyones on gear.


I use it because it actually helps my muscles hold more water and I can squeeze in an extra rep or two. Im natty right now tho, on cycle I dont





fit26 said:


> Creatine should be completely dissolve in hot water before taking in, or you are wasting your money. I stir it in hot water or hot tea until it becomes clear, then drink it, followed by protein and dextrose.



That's just not true.





Kenny Croxdale said:


> I had friend in this catagory. Not matter what he mixed creatine in or when he took it, he got basically overnight results.
> 
> Kenny Croxdale




Your friend was on that dbol creatine.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Apr 28, 2013)

Intense said:


> [/FONT]
> 
> Your friend was on that dbol creatine.



No he wasn't.

Kenny Croxdale


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## Intense (Apr 28, 2013)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> No he wasn't.
> 
> Kenny Croxdale



it was sarcasm brother man


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## bdeljoose (Apr 29, 2013)

I am a non-responder. I have tried countless number of differnt brands of creatine, none of them have done anything for me. I get blood work done every 3 months for my meds from a back injury. My dr. freaked out and thought i was going through kidney failure. I told him about creatine use and got a big long lecture on the use of it. I quit creatine and had my blood retested a week later and things were returning to normal.


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## Dr.G (Apr 29, 2013)

^^^ exactly it can really mess up your kidneys in the long run...this is why creatine users should be tested all the time....it is not worth the effort at least for me.


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## Ted Shred (Apr 29, 2013)

Wow, that kidney thing is the first I've heard of any ill effects from Creatine.  

I've been using it since I got back into training (natural) in mid-Jan after about a year off.  I'm very happy with my results so far (e.g. squat, 8x3, from 105 to 225lbs, weight from 155 lbs to 172 lbs including what looks like only a few pounds of fat), but it's really the first time ever I've paid attention to diet, and I work hard and haven't missed a w/o ('cept 2 cuzza surgery), so don't know for sure if or how well it works.  Although I know I didn't see any drastic weight gain at the beginning, and I did a loading phase first.  Weight gain really seemed to be a result only of tweaking my diet.

I'm going to Peru soon to partake in some Ayahuasca ceremonies, so will be taking about a 2-week break. I've been thinking of ditching Creatine on my return to see if I notice a difference.  Or, when I'm trippin' on Ayahuasca, I'll just ask the spirit demons all about Creatine, they apparently know a lot. (Shaman science > bro science)  Either way, I'll report back here.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Apr 29, 2013)

Dr.G said:


> ^^^ exactly it can really mess up your kidneys in the long run...this is why creatine users should be tested all the time....it is not worth the effort at least for me.



Creatine poses not long term health problems for health individuals.  There is NO data to back up that statement.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Apr 29, 2013)

Ted Shred said:


> Wow, that kidney thing is the first I've heard of any ill effects from Creatine.



The kidney thing is a rumor that died off years ago.  

However, Dr G's "I think" has decided to revive it based on his pseduo conclusions with nothing to substantian that problem exist in health individuals. 

I have a very short disposition with individuals who pepetuate pseudo science.  

As someone once said, "Show me the bodies!"  I am sure with all the creatine carnage it can't be hard to do that.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## dave 236 (Apr 29, 2013)

Dr.G said:


> ^^^ exactly it can really mess up your kidneys in the long run...this is why creatine users should be tested all the time....it is not worth the effort at least for me.



I have blood work done at least twice a yr. I havent come off creatine for more than a possible day or two if i ran out and didnt have time to pick up any, but that has rarely happened. I dont cycle it i take at a minimum 5gs a day year round (sometimes as much as 20). I have never had any issue with my kidney function or anything else for that mater. Once again you dont like creatine; once again we get it, but it isnt dangerous unless you are some sort of idiot that eats a tub of it a week.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2


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## MuscleGauge1 (Apr 29, 2013)

Creatine is one of my favorite products to use. I stack it with Anavar or Sustanol and I have great results from it. 
I think I would suggest it to someone who is looking to build muscle and put on some size. The thing about Creatine
is you have to make sure you are taking in a large amount of water to activate the supplement. It works well.


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## Dr.G (Apr 30, 2013)

dave 236 said:


> I have blood work done at least twice a yr. I havent come off creatine for more than a possible day or two if i ran out and didnt have time to pick up any, but that has rarely happened. I dont cycle it i take at a minimum 5gs a day year round (sometimes as much as 20). I have never had any issue with my kidney function or anything else for that mater. Once again you dont like creatine; once again we get it, but it isnt dangerous unless you are some sort of idiot that eats a tub of it a week.
> 
> Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2


 if it does not hurt you it does not mean it won't hurt somebody else,, medicine is not mathematics


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## Kenny Croxdale (Apr 30, 2013)

Dr.G said:


> if it does not hurt you it does not mean it won't hurt somebody else,, medicine is not mathematics



If it hurt one individual, it doesn't mean it bad for everyone.   

Kenny Croxdale


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## Dgolan7 (May 15, 2013)

Yes I still use it every day while I work out. 
Stuff works us it


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## ItzLouGunz (Jun 5, 2013)

I take EFX Kre-Alkalyn and I like it...works for me!


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## ALBOB (Jun 12, 2013)

Dr.G said:


> ^^^ exactly *it can really mess up your kidneys in the long run*...this is why creatine users should be tested all the time....it is not worth the effort at least for me.



Could you please link to a reasonably reputable study that backs up your claim?


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## cdan19 (Jun 12, 2013)

Studies from the Mayo clinic out of Minnesota state to the contrary Dr G, but perhaps you can enlighten the highest reputable medical think tank and care facility in the country. As far as any kidney functions go if one's blood test shown certain enzymes being high it's a product of dehydration that most attribute to the use of creatine but that's not the creatine's fault but the person whose not consuming adequate amounts of water. Bdeloose said his doctor had his blood rechecked one week later? no other tests? no ultra sound , no cat scan of the kidneys with contrast? Then perhaps your doctor knew there was nothing wrong other than you were showing a little dehydrated. Or I guess he was rolling the dice on your health brother. Either way I'd be looking for a new Doctor especially of your doctor is "Dr. G" . I think most healthy adult individuals with proper functioning systems will tolerate and gain with most sup's creatine included, being used as supp's to an already healthy diet. Used of course in the recommended dosing.  All in good fun fella's I use creatine almost year round at 10g daily never a problem and I agree everyone is different. www.[B]mayoclinic[/B].com/health/*creatine*/NS_patient-*creatine*


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## Dr.G (Jun 12, 2013)

Ted Shred said:


> Wow, that kidney thing is the first I've heard of any ill effects from Creatine.
> 
> I've been using it since I got back into training (natural) in mid-Jan after about a year off.  I'm very happy with my results so far (e.g. squat, 8x3, from 105 to 225lbs, weight from 155 lbs to 172 lbs including what looks like only a few pounds of fat), but it's really the first time ever I've paid attention to diet, and I work hard and haven't missed a w/o ('cept 2 cuzza surgery), so don't know for sure if or how well it works.  Although I know I didn't see any drastic weight gain at the beginning, and I did a loading phase first.  Weight gain really seemed to be a result only of tweaking my diet.
> 
> I'm going to Peru soon to partake in some Ayahuasca ceremonies, so will be taking about a 2-week break. I've been thinking of ditching Creatine on my return to see if I notice a difference.  Or, when I'm trippin' on Ayahuasca, I'll just ask the spirit demons all about Creatine, they apparently know a lot. (Shaman science > bro science)  Either way, I'll report back here.



good for you , better to stop creatine and even all kinds of powder shakes and if you just concentrate on a healthy diet and not freak out on protein and train hard and smart i bet you will not lose any muscle and any strength, you try it and come  tell me...the point is you should  be motivated to train  hard and not put your motivation in supplements.

for others who love creatine, no need to talk shit and be sarcastic, you like creatine and you feel good about it then take it, as far as i am concerned i don't need to read crap on the internet to see if creatine is good for kidneys or not..i just ask my friend a very competent researcher and  nephrologist who probably writes more articles and researches that you can ever read, and his answers were clear so if some people do not like the answer then they are free to google whatever research they want. i don't like to risk my health and  i have no hobby of having my blood tested every month, creatine is not worth it in fact from my experience no supplement is really worth it. if you do like them then good for you.


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## dave 236 (Jun 12, 2013)

cdan19 said:


> Studies from the Mayo clinic out of Minnesota state to the contrary Dr G, but perhaps you can enlighten the highest reputable medical think tank and care facility in the country. As far as any kidney functions go if one's blood test shown certain enzymes being high it's a product of dehydration that most attribute to the use of creatine but that's not the creatine's fault but the person whose not consuming adequate amounts of water. Bdeloose said his doctor had his blood rechecked one week later? no other tests? no ultra sound , no cat scan of the kidneys with contrast? Then perhaps your doctor knew there was nothing wrong other than you were showing a little dehydrated. Or I guess he was rolling the dice on your health brother. Either way I'd be looking for a new Doctor especially of your doctor is "Dr. G" . I think most healthy adult individuals with proper functioning systems will tolerate and gain with most sup's creatine included, being used as supp's to an already healthy diet. Used of course in the recommended dosing.  All in good fun fella's I use creatine almost year round at 10g daily never a problem and I agree everyone is different. www.[B]mayoclinic[/B].com/health/*creatine*/NS_patient-*creatine*



Oh he's no doctor. He plays one on the internet. Read all Dr B.S. posts he wont back up a f'n thing he says. All he does is tell everyone how awesome he is and how no one should use any supps, gear etc regardless of scientific proof to the contrary. Told me he'd pm his credentials a month ago and im still waiting...because he has none. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## Dr.G (Jun 13, 2013)

dave i am a PHD in biomechanics and i work with doctors actually i work in the design of equipment for handicapped so i think i know about medicine and especially muscles, i challenged you before to make a bet with me about my degrees and credentials and yo did not respond, i challenge you again and i bet you 10k on it you chose any mediator you want .....otherwise shut up and engage in a useful discussion instead of being stupidly insulting.
so the point is due to my work i am surrounded by medical doctors and the information is always available to me...i trust experts i do not trust info published on the net...the real medical info is usually not published.. and by the way checking blood is not enough to tell you if an organ is damaged or not.


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## Dr.G (Jun 13, 2013)

and dave i don't like to be a show off but you started it so now i am betting you if you are up to it! i never insulted you and i am not sure why you are so offended by my position against creatine..... i have my opinion based on experience and direct information from experts, you have yours based on the net...you believe what you want..bid deal!


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## blergs. (Jun 13, 2013)

Burrn said:


> Yes I know there are more articles on this than in the library of congress.....but.
> 
> Has creatine gone the way of the dinosaur? It seems the hype has dwindled. Is anybody still doing it? I frequent a large Gold's gym and there are few and far between using it.




Every day. hype fell because people stopped paying stupid priced for a hyped up SIMPLE CHEAP product. 
i use it year round. on hrt i use 1-2g ed on bulking or cycle 5-8g ed.


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## blergs. (Jun 13, 2013)

Dr.G said:


> dave i am a PHD in biomechanics and i work with doctors actually i work in the design of equipment for handicapped so i think i know about medicine and especially muscles, i challenged you before to make a bet with me about my degrees and credentials and yo did not respond, i challenge you again and i bet you 10k on it you chose any mediator you want .....otherwise shut up and engage in a useful discussion instead of being stupidly insulting.
> so the point is due to my work i am surrounded by medical doctors and the information is always available to me...i trust experts i do not trust info published on the net...the real medical info is usually not published.. and by the way checking blood is not enough to tell you if an organ is damaged or not.



AGREED!

higher creatinin levles are abnormal in blood test BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT SET UP FOR PEOPLE TAKING CREATINE! and if you had high levels and were NOT taking creatine it would be a signal there is something wrong and that is why they go by that.... but creatine DOES NOT damage organs......


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## blergs. (Jun 13, 2013)

Dr.G said:


> good for you , better to stop creatine and even all kinds of powder shakes and if you just concentrate on a healthy diet and not freak out on protein and train hard and smart i bet you will not lose any muscle and any strength, you try it and come  tell me...the point is you should  be motivated to train  hard and not put your motivation in supplements.
> 
> for others who love creatine, no need to talk shit and be sarcastic, you like creatine and you feel good about it then take it, as far as i am concerned i don't need to read crap on the internet to see if creatine is good for kidneys or not..i just ask my friend a very competent researcher and  nephrologist who probably writes more articles and researches that you can ever read, and his answers were clear so if some people do not like the answer then they are free to google whatever research they want. i don't like to risk my health and  i have no hobby of having my blood tested every month, creatine is not worth it in fact from my experience no supplement is really worth it. if you do like them then good for you.



you are too high on your horse dude....


Cratine is in food/meat. I take in 3-4 protein drink and creatin daily, but I donot eat meat...  if you are dehydrated and taking extra creatine that can be an issue... 
also the context of the "research ": you mention needed tO be looked at in NOT a narrow minded way. 
You have alot of "INFO" in your head... thats good for you... but you are missing something and to high up on horse to see it..
I know you are not as smart as you make yourself out to be..
To each his own....

ohh my bloods are good btw...


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## blergs. (Jun 13, 2013)

ALBOB said:


> Could you please link to a reasonably reputable study that backs up your claim?



why it will be worthless, he has made up his mind..

its liek the reefer madness... see black and white... ohh but here a study!    gather a bunch and then come back to me...  its easy to find a study for anything if you look... wait... why am i wasting my time still in this thread...


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## Dr.G (Jun 13, 2013)

blergs. said:


> you are too high on your horse dude....
> 
> 
> Cratine is in food/meat. I take in 3-4 protein drink and creatin daily, but I donot eat meat...  if you are dehydrated and taking extra creatine that can be an issue...
> ...


 
ironically you answered my concern: my concern was creatine supplementation and you just said that creatine comes from meat but you do not eat meat you take creatine instead....exactly what i was saying SUPPLEMENTS are not necessary and can be bad for you and you can get what you need from food, which means adding creatine on top of meat is bad...you don't eat meat then you probably are safer than others who overload with creatine.....most bodybuilders have this idea that MORE is BETTER where in fact the opposite is true. 
now comes the debate: which is better natural food or supplement. for me anything processed is not good especially the powdered supplements because all the steps it goes through and all the artificial stuff in it and the heavy metals etc... +  you don't know which company to trust and no long term studies on them. I must admit that the advantage over natural food is that you can have a better control of the fat intake and it can help you pack the muscle with less fat. Still even the manufacturers of such supplements themselves warn you about not replacing food by powder shakes and that they are only used as supplements not replacement.

incidently i have heard of people who were hospitalized due to high creatine intake and I know personally of a case where a guy in my gym was admitted to the hospital because he overtook creatine and his kidneys were messed up, i don't know the medical details of his condition and what happened but according to him he has been taking creatine for about 6  months. Now my logic says that if in 6 months he was affected by creatine , then he must have taken TOO MUCH of it, now the question is: does artificial creatine accumulate somehow in the kidneys and how much should one take to cause this accumulation and is accumulation dose dependent? these are certainly some valid questions. the answer of what is the critical dose that will not affect you if taken for lets say 30 years cannot  and is not answered yet + can you guarantee that you are not prone to future kidney disease and that creatine will not accelerate this process????????


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## dave 236 (Jun 13, 2013)

Dr.G said:


> and dave i don't like to be a show off but you started it so now i am betting you if you are up to it! i never insulted you and i am not sure why you are so offended by my position against creatine..... i have my opinion based on experience and direct information from experts, you have yours based on the net...you believe what you want..bid deal!



I have information based on 1000s of peer reviewed studies. You have info based on " you know a guy" so don't lecture me or anyone else hear on how qualified you are to make any statement. Everything you post is just your opinion. And btw im offended by the fact you came on here posing as a doctor. In fact you admitted in another post that you are not. Take your own advice and think what you want. Of course you could always post up your credentials and shut me up. Truth is your a liar who himself stalks internet sights to compile your pseudo scientific jargon that you employ to run down supplements. Thanks for your advice though, mine to you is stop living this fairy tale of being the most intelligent person anywhere you go. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## Dr.G (Jun 13, 2013)

^^^^ whatever ....i don't want to post anything i want to make a bet with you if you are up to it..i never said i am a MEDICAL doctor , but i am a doctor in biomechanics which took me about 9 years of studies not counting the postdoctoral research , i might be an idiot but at least doing my job have made hundreds of people happier which is a great reward to me. you can go on believing your 1000 papers, i have seen 100000 papers in my field with peer reviews that are BS in fact i am a reviewer myself. 
i can try to arrange a conversation with some of my medical doctors friends and check if you can stand  up for yourself with your 1000 articles: READING ARTICLES ON THE NET DOES NOT AND WILL NEVER MAKE ANYBODY QUALIFIED OR AN EXPERT IN A GIVEN FIELD, i can go and read myself the same stuff you are reading , however i chose to take such readings and discuss them with an expert in the field. 
For example do i like steroids and think they are safe???? hell no. Do I have friends who take steroids ? of course and i still like them and respect their choices and they are not offended by my opinion.... i am not sure why you are so offended by my opinion.
When it comes to creatine and protein supplements : just try it for yourself and see that you really don't need all that stuff  (whether it is harmful or not). people ingest tons of crap in search for a perfect body...try it for one or two years without supplements  and prove me wrong....i have done it and no one can take that fact from me.
case closed for me


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## malikiie (Jun 14, 2013)

personally i only use creatine hcl normal creatine is barely water soluble at all pretty sure only 1% of creatine mono even makes it into the system the rest is just sand in your gut.
creatine hcl on the other hand is great its very water soluble ergo you only need a little like say 500mg at most a day. i use it as filler for everything i cap. i have used creatine 
mono before i found juice and it takes its toll if you abuse it the stuff gives me worse sides the adrol. hard to get into you system and hard to get out however i have had none of
 the bad problems with creatine hcl. 

i mean every little thing helps i know how it is i am always looking for something new that could give my cycle just a little extra be it igf-lr1 HGH or whatever but i would never turn 
to creatine mono again i mean i payed for that food why should i have to blast it out before i get my moneys worth out of it.


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