# Why do the pros use such bad form?



## BraveUlysses (Jul 11, 2006)

Why is it that everytime I see an IFBB pro working out, they are using abysmal form? Does the stuff that they're on render the whole "keep good form" thing useless? If not for their physiques, they would look like they didnt know what the hell they were doing. Whats up with that?


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## GFR (Jul 11, 2006)

Like most top athletes they depend  95% on genetics to be great so they can fudge the other stuff if they want.


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## pengers84 (Jul 11, 2006)

They probably wont be able to walk by the time they're 50!


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## lnvanry (Jul 11, 2006)

B/c they are in front of a camera....they are selling an image lifting HEAVY weight.

also...when you run the type of cycles they run, you can sacrifice some form


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## bigss75 (Jul 11, 2006)

Locking out on 400/500 bench presses probably arent the best for joints


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## fufu (Jul 11, 2006)

because they can


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## Seanp156 (Jul 11, 2006)

I've noticed this as well... The geared up amature bodybuilders that train at my gym use shitty form, and slam weights a lot...


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## Forum Security (Jul 11, 2006)

I get my best gains with heavy weight/sloppy form and I like it!


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## BraveUlysses (Jul 11, 2006)

Forum Security said:
			
		

> I get my best gains with heavy weight/sloppy form and I like it!



Now that is the crux of what I was candidly enquiring about. Can I get better results working out this way? Or is it an individual thing?


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## Forum Security (Jul 11, 2006)

BraveUlysses said:
			
		

> Now that is the crux of what I was candidly enquiring about. Can I get better results working out this way? Or is it an individual thing?


To be honest... this works best for me, I cannot speak for others.
For Example, take barbell rows: when I go light weight (say 135lbs) and perfect form, I never get sore or feel any type of improvement in my back....
Now take a heavier weight (205) i get less reps with a much sloppier form but the gains are there and thats the only way that ever worked for me...


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## 911=InsideJob (Jul 11, 2006)

Bas Rutten has terrible form in his MMA workout video.  (posted on youtube)


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## CowPimp (Jul 11, 2006)

They are doing good in spite of their training methods, not because of them.  Professional bodybuilding is largely about genetics, drugs, and a shitload of eating.  If you want to do it naturally and maintain your health, then tighten up your form.  Cheating is just your body compensating for the muscles you are intending to work with other muscles.


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## kcoleman (Jul 11, 2006)

Yea this is especially prominent in the movie Pumping Iron.


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## SJ69 (Jul 11, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> They are doing good in spite of their training methods, not because of them.  Professional bodybuilding is largely about genetics, drugs, and a shitload of eating.  If you want to do it naturally and maintain your health, then tighten up your form.  Cheating is just your body compensating for the muscles you are intending to work with other muscles.




I don't know about that, cheating is an accepted technique for advanced lifters/bb's.  I believe there is a method to their madness.  For example if I can get 6 good reps on curls, why not cheat on the last two and get 8?  It's like forced reps.  Of course this is only for experienced lifters who "can" cheat, or know how to cheat without hurting themselves.

Bret Favre's back up QB said "Why do I have to do it this way, and Favre doesn't (talking fundamentals)?  Coach --> "Because he can, you're not Brett Favre, stick to the book."

Of course they do 'roids, but so do a million other's whom you've never heard of, it's not the roids, it's the work ethic, technique, and of course genetics.


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## EsseQuamVideri (Jul 12, 2006)

pengers84 said:
			
		

> They probably wont be able to walk by the time they're 50!



They will be dead before 50. As for slamming the weights I agree that there are times when form has to take a back seat to moving some poundage and shocking the hell out of your muscles. I don't think you lift that way all the time because it is hard on the body but it definately works. Pros just get away with doing it more because they have better 'recovery' methods.


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## GFR (Jul 12, 2006)

kcoleman said:
			
		

> Yea this is especially prominent in the movie Pumping Iron.




Arnold is God and every rep he did was perfect.


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## PWGriffin (Jul 12, 2006)

EsseQuamVideri said:
			
		

> They will be dead before 50. As for slamming the weights I agree that there are times when form has to take a back seat to moving some poundage and shocking the hell out of your muscles. I don't think you lift that way all the time because it is hard on the body but it definately works. Pros just get away with doing it more because they have better 'recovery' methods.




You move more weight because you are using other muscles to assist in the lift or provide momentum...the muscles you are intending to use are not getting any more "shocked" than they would if you used good form.

I log my workouts...and I don't want to fool myself into thinking that I'm making progress when I actually just used shittier form to move more weight or get more reps than the week before.  Do you??


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## EsseQuamVideri (Jul 12, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Arnold is God and every rep he did was perfect.



There were other people less Godlike in that movie. A scene that comes to mind is a guy (not Arnie) doing seated rows.


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## EsseQuamVideri (Jul 12, 2006)

PWGriffin said:
			
		

> You move more weight because you are using other muscles to assist in the lift or provide momentum...the muscles you are intending to use are not getting any more "shocked" than they would if you used good form.
> 
> I log my workouts...and I don't want to fool myself into thinking that I'm making progress when I actually just used shittier form to move more weight or get more reps than the week before.  Do you??



I think that perfect form has a way of building up mental walls that are hard to break. I started training when I was 17 and I used only perfect form. I got good muscle gains over the years but my strength gains were no where near as good. When I was 20 I decided to trade some form for power and only then did my strength start to blossom. I am a total advocate of good form, don't get me wrong, but I think that during a 6 week routine you can trade a little form for power (cheating) as long as you you go back to great form for your next routine. You will find during your next routine that you can do great form with more weight, which equates to more muscle in the end.


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## AKIRA (Jul 12, 2006)

Seanp156 said:
			
		

> I've noticed this as well... The geared up amature bodybuilders that train at my gym use shitty form, and slam weights a lot...




Funny how you said this.  Dave Marinelli (Mr. Florida of some years) trains at my gym every day.  And while I was doing ATG squats, he and his friend were discussing about the last time they used "free weighted squats."  Then he stepped over to the smith machine.  He said some other stuff too that indicated that he was telling his clients that thye shouldnt do squats.  In fact, Ive never seen him instruct one person on any compound free weight movement.  He trains all his clients on machines and such, but it looks to be on a bodybuilder's volume program.  Ive come to realize that some trainers just never keep up with the newest techniques, especially those who constantly compete.

 

Cheating to me is a way to force out 2 reps, like someone had already said.  I can also see it as breaking through a plateau.  Neither one would be something that should be consistent in programs nor would I list them in my journal, unless noted specifically.


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## CowPimp (Jul 12, 2006)

SJ69 said:
			
		

> I don't know about that, cheating is an accepted technique for advanced lifters/bb's.  I believe there is a method to their madness.  For example if I can get 6 good reps on curls, why not cheat on the last two and get 8?  It's like forced reps.  Of course this is only for experienced lifters who "can" cheat, or know how to cheat without hurting themselves.
> 
> Bret Favre's back up QB said "Why do I have to do it this way, and Favre doesn't (talking fundamentals)?  Coach --> "Because he can, you're not Brett Favre, stick to the book."
> 
> Of course they do 'roids, but so do a million other's whom you've never heard of, it's not the roids, it's the work ethic, technique, and of course genetics.



Actually, a lot of bodybuilders have poor work ethic.  You have to consider the amount of juice they are sucking down.

With that said, cheat reps are a valid form of overload.  It allows you to do negatives once concentric failure is reached.  Nonetheless, it should be used sparingly, only with certain exercises, and have a practical limit.  You want to do cheat curls, okay, but if you look like you're trying to do a backflip while culing then it's asking for injury in my opinion.


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## AKIRA (Jul 13, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Actually, a lot of bodybuilders have poor work ethic.  You have to consider the amount of juice they are sucking down.
> 
> With that said, cheat reps are a valid form of overload.  It allows you to do negatives once concentric failure is reached.  Nonetheless, it should be used sparingly, only with certain exercises, and have a practical limit.  You want to do cheat curls, okay, but *if you look like you're trying to do a backflip *while culing then it's asking for injury in my opinion.





God damn!


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## MCx2 (Jul 13, 2006)

AKIRA said:
			
		

> Cheating to me is a way to force out 2 reps, like someone had already said.  I can also see it as breaking through a plateau.  Neither one would be something that should be consistent in programs nor would I list them in my journal, unless noted specifically.



Agreed. I rarely pick a weight/reps that I don't think I can complete. If I do I don't see the harm in cheating the last few reps.


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## mike456 (Jul 14, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Like most top athletes they depend  95% on genetics to be great so they can fudge the other stuff if they want.


Yea, but wont they get much better results if they used good form.


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## CowPimp (Jul 14, 2006)

mike456 said:
			
		

> Yea, but wont they get much better results if they used good form.



At that level form is probably not a limiting factor.  More likely it is hormone levels and caloric intake.


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