# Creatine?



## Mkpaint (Sep 22, 2011)

Worth taking or waste of money?


----------



## Night_Wolf (Sep 22, 2011)

Mkpaint said:


> Worth taking or waste of money?



Is a staple. Get basic Creatine Monohydrate in bulk.


----------



## Mkpaint (Sep 22, 2011)

best way to take? what to expect from it?


----------



## Night_Wolf (Sep 22, 2011)

Mkpaint said:


> best way to take? what to expect from it?




Creatine is naturally manufactured in the liver and is transported to the muscles via circulatory system. Than creatine is transformed into phosphocreatine and is stored in the muscle (CP-creatine phosphate).
CP is used in regeneration of ATP (Adenosine Tri Phosphate-energy source).

Since ATP is the basis of all growth, and CP is the basis of ATP regeneration...do the math. I would run it all year round. You can also expect slight increase in strength.
Creatine also benefits much other stuff, but I'll leave reading chemistry books to you.

For the first 5-7 days take 5g four times a day (5g in the morning, 5g 5-6 hours later, 5g before and 5g after workout). After that take 5g in the off days and 5g 45 min before/5g immediately after training.


----------



## Mkpaint (Sep 22, 2011)

thanks


----------



## returnofthdragon (Sep 22, 2011)

I've never found much benefit in loading.  If I take extra at all in the beginning I only take double.  Taking quadruple is a waste imho.


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 22, 2011)

returnofthdragon said:


> I've never found much benefit in loading.  If I take extra at all in the beginning I only take double.  Taking quadruple is a waste imho.



Not to mention a lot of unnecessary stress on the kidneys. 
5g a day from start to finish is all you need, and the time you take it doesn't matter.


----------



## pebble (Sep 22, 2011)

Night_Wolf said:


> Creatine is naturally manufactured in the liver and is transported to the muscles via circulatory system. Than creatine is transformed into phosphocreatine and is stored in the muscle (CP-creatine phosphate).
> CP is used in regeneration of ATP (Adenosine Tri Phosphate-energy source).
> 
> Since ATP is the basis of all growth, and CP is the basis of ATP regeneration...do the math. I would run it all year round. You can also expect slight increase in strength.
> ...



Bold is bro science. You can load (4x5mg for 5 days) if you want, but it is not necessary.  It will saturate the muscle faster, but its not necessary. Once the bold reaches the maximal saturation level about 150-160 mmol nothing extra will help.

Also only 2-3mg/day is necessary to maintain saturation levels.  There is no need to take 5mg.   Save the cash and take less.

The point of Creatine supplementation is to fill ones levels to maximum capacity so that REPEAT bouts of exercise can maintain intensity.  It does not make some faster or stronger on the first set.  It helps with the subsequent sets allowing someone to get an extra rep or two when working in lower rep ranges.  This results in an increased overload which creates a stronger driving force for adaption.


----------



## CaptainNapalm (Sep 22, 2011)

I think it's the best supplement out there.  Creatine monohydrate works best for the price.  It's absorbtion and effects are not dependent on when one consumes the supplement so you can dose it at any time of day you choose as long as you're somewhat consistent.  Personally speaking, I always found loading on the stuff useless and unpleasant.  A single serving of 5g (teaspoon approx.) is all most need to get optimal results.  You can consider 10g/day (in two doses) if you're 220lbs ++.


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 24, 2011)

CaptainNapalm said:


> You can consider 10g/day (in two doses) if you're 220lbs ++.





pebble said:


> Bold is bro science. You can load (4x5mg for 5 days) if you want, but it is not necessary.  It will saturate the muscle faster, but its not necessary. Once the bold reaches the maximal saturation level about 150-160 mmol nothing extra will help.
> 
> Also only 2-3mg/day is necessary to maintain saturation levels.  There is no need to take 5mg.   Save the cash and take less.



Can you guys cite your sources?


----------



## jtterrible (Sep 24, 2011)

PushAndPull said:


> Can you guys cite your sources?



no u?


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 24, 2011)

jtterrible said:


> no u?



Nope just going on experience, and what is recommend.
I think I found CaptainNapalm source.
Bodybuilding.com - Creatine Truths And Myths.
Still have no idea where pebble got his info, which sucks since he's saying you only need amounts in mg.


----------



## jtterrible (Sep 24, 2011)

I can't talk because I don't react to mono..


----------



## pebble (Sep 24, 2011)

PushAndPull said:


> Can you guys cite your sources?




I will give you the sources Sunday or Monday.  But it is Journal of Physiology.


----------



## pebble (Sep 24, 2011)

PushAndPull said:


> Nope just going on experience, and what is recommend.
> I think I found CaptainNapalm source.
> Bodybuilding.com - Creatine Truths And Myths.
> Still have no idea where pebble got his info, which sucks since he's saying you only need amounts in mg.





SHit sorry guys.  That should say g .  It is a typo.  My bad.  But you only need 2-3g per day.  Not 10, and not 5.    I will still post up the source though.


----------



## packers6211 (Sep 24, 2011)

Creatine is gold as a staple. Pure creatine mono is still considered king of the creatines, but there are some new creatines making a name. One is APS Creatine Nitrate. One thing I love about that product is I saw results but didn't bloat at all. But for price mono is best way to go.


----------



## rbmedic75 (Sep 25, 2011)

Thoughts on this dosing suggestion  (its from creatine monohydrate.net)

*Correctly calculating your creatine dose:*

Creatine supplementation is typically divided into three separate stages, *loading*, *maintenance* and *wash-out*. 
*LOADING:* The loading phase is designed to quickly fill (or “load”) your muscular creatine stores in a matter of just a few days. During the loading phase take no more than 0.3 grams of creatine per each kilogram (2.2 pounds) of body weight. This amount of creatine is rougemy equal to ten-times your daily turnover rate of creatine. Divide your loading dose into four equal parts; take one part every four hours. 
_DO NOT_ take your entire loading dose at once. This will only result in most of the ingested creatine being excreted in the urine as well as may place an unwarranted stress on your kidneys and liver. Scientific research has shown that your body can only absorb about 5-10 grams of creatine at one time, depending on your total amount of muscle mass (or body weight, by closest approximation). 
_DO NOT_ load for more than five days consecutively, as this is the time it usually takes for your muscular stores to reach their maximal capacity. After your stores are loaded, any extra creatine you ingest WILL NOT be absorbed by your muscles. _In other words, the surplus creatine will simply end up in the toilet! _
*Important Note: *Taking your entire loading dose all at once, or loading for more than five days consecutively, is a waste of creatine and cash! 
*MAINTENANCE:* Following the loading phase your creatine stores can be “maintained” full by ingesting just a few grams of creatine each day. During the maintenance phase of supplementation your creatine dose can be reduced to just a few grams (0.03grams/kilogram body weight) a day for no longer than one month. The maintenance amount just needs to replace the amount of creatine degraded on a daily basis. In case you haven’t guessed the maintenance amount of creatine is rougemy equal to your daily turnover rate of creatine.






Note: Below your weight is your corresponding


----------



## Dynasty92 (Sep 25, 2011)

Just starting to take creatine again


----------



## pebble (Sep 26, 2011)

PushAndPull said:


> Can you guys cite your sources?





pebble said:


> I will give you the sources Sunday or Monday.  But it is Journal of Physiology.



*
Here is muscle loading and maintenance*:

J Appl Physiol. 1996 Jul;81(1):232-7.
*Muscle creatine loading in men.*

Hultman E, Söderlund K, Timmons JA, Cederblad G, Greenhaff PL.
*Source*

Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, University Medical School, Queen's Medical Centre, Nottingham, United Kingdom.

*Abstract*

The  effect of dietary creatine and supplementation on skeletal muscle  creatine accumulation and subsequent degradation and on urinary  creatinine excretion was investigated in 31 male subjects who ingested  creatine in different quantities over varying time periods. Muscle total  creatine concentration increased by approximately 20% after 6 days of  creatine supplementation at a rate of 20 g/day. This elevated  concentration was maintained when supplementation was continued at a  rate of 2 g/day for a further 30 days. In the absence of 2 g/day  supplementation, total creatine concentration gradually declined, such  that 30 days after the cessation of supplementation the concentration  was no different from the presupplementation value. During this period,  urinary creatinine excretion was correspondingly increased. A similar,  but more gradual, 20% increase in muscle total creatine concentration  was observed over a period of 28 days when supplementation was  undertaken at a rate of 3 g/day. In conclusion, a rapid way to "creatine  load" human skeletal muscle is to ingest 20 g of creatine for 6 days.  This elevated tissue concentration can then be maintained by ingestion  of 2 g/day thereafter. The ingestion of 3 g creatine/day is in the long  term likely to be as effective at raising tissue levels as this higher  dose.


----------



## FitnessFreek (Sep 26, 2011)

Some creatine supplements can be a waste of money. Just get creatine mono powder and its not waste. Don't fall for the advertisements selling costy creatine. It's not different.


----------



## MJ288 (Sep 26, 2011)

A must.


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 26, 2011)

pebble said:


> *
> Here is muscle loading and maintenance*:
> 
> J Appl Physiol. 1996 Jul;81(1):232-7.
> ...



Well rock out with your cock out!
That's a good read


----------



## VolcomX311 (Sep 26, 2011)

pebble said:


> *Here is muscle loading and maintenance*:
> 
> J Appl Physiol. 1996 Jul;81(1):232-7.
> *Muscle creatine loading in men.*
> ...


 
Interesting.  Thanks for posting


----------



## |Z| (Sep 26, 2011)

Its a staple IMO, too. As far as loading goes, however, I've never done a loading period... never seen an issue with no doing it, personally.


----------



## VolcomX311 (Sep 27, 2011)

Just noticed that study was done in 1996.  It's my understanding that loading has been made unnecessary according to more recent studies.


----------



## PRIDE. (Sep 27, 2011)

The best Creatine I've found is Mono. Synthetek's SyntheCREATINE is an excellent product!


----------



## TBLAZIN (Sep 27, 2011)

do you bloat with alot of water on it?


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 27, 2011)

VolcomX311 said:


> Just noticed that study was done in 1996.  It's my understanding that loading has been made unnecessary according to more recent studies.



True, but the interesting part of the study was the maintenance levels (2g).
I'm gonna try half a scoop (~2.5g) and see if I can tell any difference.


----------



## pebble (Sep 27, 2011)

PushAndPull said:


> True, but the interesting part of the study was the maintenance levels (2g).
> I'm gonna try half a scoop (~2.5g) and see if I can tell any difference.



Loading is not necessary, but it does get you to where you are going faster - muscle saturation.  The study was trying to figure out the most optimal way to get there so that you are not wasting (excreting) creatine.


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 27, 2011)

pebble said:


> Loading is not necessary, but it does get you to where you are going faster - muscle saturation.  The study was trying to figure out the most optimal way to get there so that you are not wasting (excreting) creatine.



Great, but most people are not going to measure out three grams. Taking half a scoop is easy (~2.5g) and I doubt three grams is going to get you where you're going much faster. 
The biggest problem with the study is the subjects. The only information provided about them is that they're men. Does age, diet, weight, exercise program have no bearing on the amount of creatine that's optimal for a man? Of course it does. The study doesn't address these factors, and that leaves a large margin for error.


----------



## oufinny (Sep 27, 2011)

I see no need to take additional creatine if you are taking a pre-workout that has it dosed right 2-3 grams a serving and/or are taking 2 grams a day with a normal diet.  I have consciously taken many types of creatine daily and see little difference.  When I took 5+ grams of mono per day all I noticed was excess bloat so I like to us MCC most of the time.


----------

