# Cardio & Muscle Loss



## RnRGirl (Jun 26, 2003)

Interesting article on muscle loss & cardio IMO 

 http://www.femalemuscle.com/training/aerobics.html


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## letmeloose (Jun 26, 2003)

Talk about throwin a spanner into the works!!!!
So whats too much cardio now? I thought 3 days, 45 minutes each was on the boarder line of becoming too much let alone 6 days a week! Totally confused me now!


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## FortifiedIron (Jun 26, 2003)

Why do it for more then 10-15 min's  day 3-4 days a week? I dont see a point. Hight Intensive Interval Training is shown over and over gain to be a superior method of fatloss where its leaving your 45 min run's in the dust. Not only does it burn fat up to 300x's faster but even after your done with your workout it works for up to 45 min's later buring calories where your just sitting around. Who wants to wake up at 6 and run in the morning and lose muscle from runing on an empty stomach when you can eat 30 min's before a HIIT workout and still burn more fat.


Aerobic cardio is out, Anerobic cardio is in!


Kc


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## JerrymeMorales (Jun 26, 2003)

When I first started training I used to do two 20 minute cardio seesions but found it did nothing for me as far as burning the bodyfat. So I changed my cardio routines to 45 mintue sessions. One 45 minute session upon wakening on an empty stomach and another one before bed time after weight training. 

I know you guys may be thinking that 30-45 minutes may be too much cardio but please read what I have to say. For a cardio workout to be effective, though, your heart rate has to increase and stay high for at least 20 minutes. At the 20-minute mark, the body stops running only on its stored energy, and it turns to its fat deposits (and all of your exercise over 20 minutes will pull from that stored fat). 

Here is something to keep in mind. Did you know it takes the average person 12 minutes to enter the benefits of aerobic fat burning? Therefore, if your cardio session is only 20 minutes long, your fat burning segment of the workout is only 8 minutes long, not 20. The number of minutes needed to reach aerobic activity vary by level of fitness. The more fit one is, the faster they may enter their fat burning mode. Unfortunately, an unfit person takes longer than 12 minutes to enter their fat burning mode. This is why it is stressed for cardio sessions to last 45 minutes. 

During the first several minutes of exercise your body begins by utilizing essentially (not solely) its more instantaneous energy sources, like glycogen in your muscles. These sources of energy can't keep up with the ongoing requirement for energy. 

Therefore, your body will progressively tap into your stored body fat as an additional energy source in order to continue at that intensity. Consequently a good rule of thumb is that after 20 minutes at your target heart rate, you will be burning more fat than you are carbohydrates. You will be burning fat after approximately 12 minutes but the ratio doesn't favor fat loss until approximately 20 minutes. Once you reach 30 minutes or longer at your target heart rate you will be burning a larger percentage of calories from fat. There is still some controversy as to which is better - longer duration at lower intensity, or shorter duration at higher intensity. 

Believe me when I say that some companies will go to great lengths to make that "magic pill" for marketing purposes. If someone told you one day that if you do a 10 minute cardio wokrout saying that its proven that it will burn more bodyfat would you do it? Many people will believe things because they want fast results and less hard work. 

Again please dont bash me, do your own research and make your own decision on what I said.


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## Jodi (Jun 27, 2003)

Couple things I want to say.  1.  I don't any leaner by increasing my cardio, it all comes from diet. 



> Believe me when I say that some companies will go to great lengths to make that "magic pill" for marketing purposes. If someone told you one day that if you do a 10 minute cardio wokrout saying that its proven that it will burn more bodyfat would you do it? Many people will believe things because they want fast results and less hard work.



2.  20-25 mins. of HIIT is much more difficult and tiring than 45 mins. of moderate cardio.  I'd rather do 45 mins. but its not as effective.  So whatever you do, don't say HIIT is the easy way out because its not, its harder. 

3.  I think that article advocates TOO much cardio!!


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## Fit Freak (Jun 27, 2003)

Jerry ... I agree with a lot of your comments....15 minutes of HIIT is simply not enough time to get your heart rate in the correct zone for enough time to reap the benefits of cardio...which BTW...are a lot more than a little fat burning.

Also...everyone keeps mentioning how HIIT increases fat burning up to 300x more than regular cardio after your workout...well...this is another terrible use of statistics...truth be told you actually burn more calories...and in % terms it is a lot higher but the ACTUAL amoutn is neglible.

Example...20 cals vs 30 cals is 50% more but in fact only 10 more cals...get my drift?

You wanna get truly lean....45 minutes up to 5x a week on an emtpy tummy combined with an excellent diet!  You may lose a little LBM but I gaurentee you'll get much leaner.

Also when I speak of traditional cardio I'm not saying walking on a slight incline...I'm saying 70-75% of MHR for 45 minutes...guys and gals...there is a reason why the pros do it that way and not HIIT...and they're the ones with the striated glutes...and don't give me the drug arguement either


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## RnRGirl (Jun 27, 2003)

I always do my cardio using a Heart Rate Monitor.  I set the low # at 65% of my Max and the high # at 80% of my max.


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## Julie7Ulie (Jun 27, 2003)

Jerry,
What you wrote is exactly what I was taught to the T before I joiined IM. Which is why I used to do cardio practically every day.  

It worked fast and it worked well. - Though there is a lot more to it than just cardio.

The rules and reasoning were, that glycogen is used as fuel always first and foremost in cardio. So - what you would eat before any form of cardio could never be any form of starch whatsoever. To obtain maximum fat loss through cardio, the ideal settings would be cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, or 4-6 hours after the last intake of starches.

Always do cardio after lifting because after about 20 minutes of lifting, the body is now turning to fat for fuel, making it ideal for cardio. However, cardio is not to exceed 45 minutes because after the fat is used, the body then turns to other sources of fuel and can take away from muscle.

Foods to eat during a high cardio plan are anything and everything with less than 10g of sugars in one sitting. Not carbs, sugars, - the sugar will stay and thus turn to fat. Since the body burns glycogen first, the more glycogen present, the more it will ignore the fat.

Never mix starches with read meats, Steak can only be eaten with green veggies. No potatoes, no rice, no pasta.. The combination of starch and red meat causes a delayed process of burning starch. That too, will sit. 

If you have to eat white foods, to only eat with white meat (chicken, fish, etc), or plain with veggies (fiber)

To never eat to the point of being uncomfortably full. The body cannot work as fast to rid the body of all the excess food that has been consumed.

To never eat starches within 4 hours of bedtime, and to not eat anything but protein within 2 hours of bedtime.

To never eat starches within 4 hours of cardio, and to not eat anything at all within 2 hours of cardio.

To still watch the fat - a lot of it in daily foods is trans fatty.

There are more rules to this, actually.. I had a whole ten page document about the why's and dont's and do's of this type of cardio plan.

These were also the guidelines I used to follow exactly. And the results were fast. I was very lean and had built awesome stamina and endurance for every physical challenge I had to endure.

The problem I had though - the big drawback that made me changemy plan) -  is this became my lifestyle for three years or so. 

Only then, I found that you could only tweak for so much before you hit a major plateau, and you cant exactly fit in 6 meals a day as easily.

The idea is similar to a lot of the plans on here, here its stricter and less general. Also, this isn't a BB's plan at all. Its mostly for people who dont care about the muscle they build, just about the fat they want to lose.

I think high cardio plans could work - Its worth a shot..

But if the IM folks find results better with minimized cardio, thats good too. Thats what Im doing now - Im trusting their knowledge. It was time to move on. 

Everyone is different though. If it works for you, you'll know within one month. By then if you see no results at all, you may be doing too much for nothing..




In my own opinion of course...

Thats the only knowledge I can really offer to this site..


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## JerrymeMorales (Jun 27, 2003)

FitFreak and Julie..I agree with you...one thing that just eats me up is that  people are always going to look for the next gimmick..you know? Like I said...whats going to be next? Someones going to sell a program or gimmick that cardio for 5 mintues will get you cut up? You gotta be kidding me. 

They forget that it takes hard work and good nutrition to build an incredible physique...sure, I do 45 mintues cardio. I dont walk or  take my time...I do cardio with high intensity..thats the way to go to burn that fat off and it works...its helped me time and time again...  

I am willing to bet ...try to get a person and let them do cardio for 45 mintues with high intensity 5 days a week....that person will get cut up and lose bodyfat..thats a given because they are burning more calories and depleting their glycogen stores and using fat for fuel...it works. i wish people would try it out for a month and they will see that it does work.


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## JerrymeMorales (Jun 27, 2003)

one example  of a fitness athlete that does high volume cardio everyday...Debbie Kruck. 

This woman does cardio everyday and look at her figure : )


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## Julie7Ulie (Jun 27, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by JerrymeMorales *_
> FitFreak and Julie..I agree with you...one thing that just eats me up is that  people are always going to look for the next gimmick..you know? Like I said...whats going to be next? Someones going to sell a program or gimmick that cardio for 5 mintues will get you cut up? You gotta be kidding me.
> 
> They forget that it takes hard work and good nutrition to build an incredible physique...sure, I do 45 mintues cardio. I dont walk or  take my time...I do cardio with high intensity..thats the way to go to burn that fat off and it works...its helped me time and time again...
> ...



What are you talking about? 
you mean I cant get buns of steel in 3 minutes?


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## JerrymeMorales (Jun 27, 2003)

can you Julie? Id like to know : )


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## Julie7Ulie (Jun 27, 2003)

Of course I can.  And abs of steel in 5 minutes. i can eat whatever I want too! and if I eat too much all I have to do is drink the miracle shake that makes me lose 20 pounds in 24 hours! Dont you know?  - (this reminds me of freeman's hydroxycut thread somewhere that was really hilarious).


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## JerrymeMorales (Jun 27, 2003)

wow...you are amazing!!!!! 

Do you have a picture, Julie? Id like to see hwo I am talking to.


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## Julie7Ulie (Jun 27, 2003)

Im working on pics... working on 'em..


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## JerrymeMorales (Jun 27, 2003)

cool....

Since I am very new to the board, i like putting a face to the names i see..

I like this board a lot...I can tell people have a passion for fitness : )


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## Julie7Ulie (Jun 27, 2003)

I might be a bit pic board-o-phobic.  If the pic isnt good enough to me, I wont post it. 

I might email pics to people that ask (if I can find em).. 

This board is AWESOME. Great info on here and great coaching


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## JerrymeMorales (Jun 27, 2003)

well you can e mail me one if you want (no pressure )


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## JB_427 (Jun 27, 2003)

I want one too! I bet I know you! And Jodi, too and all the other new englanders - the freakin beantown barbies.

HA!


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## JB_427 (Jun 27, 2003)

Never mind Jodi - I saw a pic of you, and I have no clue who you are. 

You look great though


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## JerrymeMorales (Jun 27, 2003)

well my pic is in the member photo section...still got a lot of work to do to improve


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## JB_427 (Jun 27, 2003)

Oh yea. Us IM ladies have seen.  , havent we J'Bo?


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## JerrymeMorales (Jun 27, 2003)

I think there has got to be a lot of good looking people on this baord. I aint lying about that...

Ive seen a lot of amazing looking people...

Especially the women...this board has a lot of beautiful women. Im impressed.


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## JB_427 (Jun 27, 2003)

Same for the men...


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## JB_427 (Jun 27, 2003)

your link doesnt like me


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## JB_427 (Jun 27, 2003)

I already hinted you look good, what else do you want from me??


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## JerrymeMorales (Jun 27, 2003)

Moderators...the formula for your hyperlink has a flaw...the formula is wrong...

I finally made my link work.....

Bare with me...I trhink I look funny in these pics...some were taken awhile back.


http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/jerryme7


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## Julie7Ulie (Jun 27, 2003)

You're in the USAF, huh?


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## JerrymeMorales (Jun 27, 2003)

yes i am...Just call me SSGt Morales


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## Julie7Ulie (Jun 27, 2003)

Saw the blues...


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## JerrymeMorales (Jun 27, 2003)

yup...the baby blues


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## JerrymeMorales (Jun 27, 2003)

tug-o-war picture here in Pakistan


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## naturaltan (Jun 27, 2003)

who's that large guy anchoring?


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## JerrymeMorales (Jun 27, 2003)

thats me!!! LOL


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## netranger (Jul 20, 2005)

JerrymeMorales said:
			
		

> For a cardio workout to be effective, though, your heart rate has to increase and stay high for at least 20 minutes. At the 20-minute mark, the body stops running only on its stored energy, and it turns to its fat deposits (and all of your exercise over 20 minutes will pull from that stored fat).
> 
> Here is something to keep in mind. Did you know it takes the average person 12 minutes to enter the benefits of aerobic fat burning? Therefore, if your cardio session is only 20 minutes long, your fat burning segment of the workout is only 8 minutes long, not 20. The number of minutes needed to reach aerobic activity vary by level of fitness. The more fit one is, the faster they may enter their fat burning mode. Unfortunately, an unfit person takes longer than 12 minutes to enter their fat burning mode. This is why it is stressed for cardio sessions to last 45 minutes.
> 
> ...



So I can run at any time and still get the benefit of burning fat, as long as my run last for 30-40min? I currently run in the morning on a empty stomach for 30-40min. TIA


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## kicka19 (Jul 20, 2005)

why do people post on dead threads?


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## BlackDogStrut (Jul 20, 2005)

so running about 10 miles a week is fine?


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## netranger (Jul 21, 2005)

BlackDogStrut said:
			
		

> so running about 10 miles a week is fine?


I do 15 - 20km a week, all in the morning on empty stomach.


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