# HCG: single high dose vs divided small dose administration



## Tha Don (Dec 10, 2005)

Posted by hhajdo at S???ology


> Differential effect of single high dose and divided small dose administration of human chorionic gonadotropin on Leydig cell steroidogenic desensitization.
> 
> Smals AG, Pieters GF, Boers GH, Raemakers JM, Hermus AR, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW.
> 
> This study compared the effect of a single high dose of hCG (1500 IU) with that of the same dose administered in multiple small doses (300 IU, once daily for 5 days) on Leydig cell steroidogenesis. Administration of a single high dose of hCG to seven healthy men raised the mean plasma testosterone (T) level to peak levels 2.1 +/- 0.2 (SEM) X the baseline value at 48 h. Thereafter plasma T decreased to below normal (0.7 +/- 0.1 X baseline) 7 days after the injection. The mean 17-hydroxyprogesterone (17-OHP) level peaked at 24 h (2.5 +/- 0.2 X baseline) and then also fell to a nadir value of 0.6 +/- 0.2 X baseline on day 7. Reflecting the early accumulation of 17-OHP over T, the 17 OHP/T ratio reached its maximum (1.6 +/- 0.1 X baseline) at 24 h at the same time when plasma estradiol [(E2) 4.4 +/- 0.6 X baseline] and the ratio E2/T (2.7 +/- 0.3 X baseline) achieved their maximal values. Administration of 1500 IU hCG in five divided doses of 300 IU daily increased the mean plasma T levels to peak value of 2.1 +/- 0.2 X baseline at 5 days and the levels remained elevated thereafter. The response of T as reflected by the area under the curve was almost twice as great as in the single dose study (2844 +/- 360 vs. 1647 +/- 214). In contrast to the single high dose experiment, mean plasma 17-OHP levels in the divided dose protocol did not peak at 24 h but only gradually increased. As the increase of T exceeded the 17-OHP increase at almost all time intervals, no accumulation of 17-OHP over T occurred as in the single dose experiment. Instead the 17-OHP/T ratio fell to a nadir value of 0.6 +/- 0.1 X baseline on day 7. The initial E2 peak was absent in the divided dose protocol and the E2/T ratio only marginally increased. Considering both experiments together a close relation was found between the hCG-induced increases in E2 and 17-OHP (r = +0.88, P less than 0.001), as well as the ratio 17 OHP/T (r = +0.64, P less than 0.02).



to sum it up 1 dose of 1500iu raises estrogen to maximum levels and increases to the same levels 17-OHP, which is what causes desensitization to LH in the testes, but if you take that same 1500iu and divide it into 5 doses of 300iu you avoid these side effects, the divided dose method also seems to a much better effect on raising T levels, and keeps T levels elevated for longer

just thought it was pretty interesting


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## velikimajmun (Dec 10, 2005)

Personally, I prefer swale's protocol of running 250iu 2 x per week while on cycle.  It makes PCT seamless for me.


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## Tha Don (Dec 10, 2005)

do you find that dose sufficient? i am on 500iu twice a week right now, any signs of over-doing it?


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## jeb (Dec 10, 2005)

is liquidex any good in preventing the hcg to convert into estrogen in high doses like 1500 ius????


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## luke69duke69 (Dec 10, 2005)

I'm starting my HCG tomorrow.  I'm still gonna be injecting test for about 4 more weeks, at 300mg x twice per week for those four yet.  What dosage should I be running then?  And also does it make a big difference whether you inject it into your fat vs muscle?  I've been told you can do either.  I was just curious which way is best.  I didn't decide to run it the entire cycle, just was going to start it for the last four weeks to build the boys back up before PCT.  I started running 20mg of Nolva a few days ago to keep some of the bloat in check a little and plan on running that for the remainder of my cycle.

Also, if I'm reading this right and also reading Young D, your other post about Nolvadex during HCG, shouldn't the Nolva take care of blocking the estrogen and making the bigger single dose vs smaller ones a no issue or am I totally misunderstanding you?


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## Mudge (Dec 10, 2005)

jeb said:
			
		

> is liquidex any good in preventing the hcg to convert into estrogen in high doses like 1500 ius????



There is no point to using more than neccessary, its not going to make your balls bigger.

I've tried 250iu and most of the time I would say its not enough for me.


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## luke69duke69 (Dec 10, 2005)

So Mudge, would you suggest 500iu twice a week?  And does it make much difference whether I shoot it into my fat or muscle?  I'm told you can do both but I was curious which method is better.  I'm going to assume there should be no problems splitting those two on the same days I take my two test shots each week.


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## Pirate! (Dec 10, 2005)

I recommend 100 iu/day. That can be 350 iu twice weekly, 300 iu E3D, 500 iu E3D etc. Some will need more, some less.


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## Mudge (Dec 10, 2005)

I do 500iu about twice a week, or every 4 days. If I'm shooting twice a week (juice) then twice a week HCG is convenient at the same time, and I shoot subcutaneously into the stomach fat, about 1-1.5" to the right/left of the navel with a slin pin. Very quick and painless.


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## luke69duke69 (Dec 10, 2005)

can't you just get slin pins at like wal-mart or rite aid?
I was just gonna use the same 23 guage pins I have a hoard of laying around anyhow.


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## Pirate! (Dec 10, 2005)

luke69duke69 said:
			
		

> can't you just get slin pins at like wal-mart or rite aid?
> I was just gonna use the same 23 guage pins I have a hoard of laying around anyhow.


Depends on your state laws at to availability. You can use 23 gauge for sub-q or IM. Slin pins are still more comfortable.


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## luke69duke69 (Dec 10, 2005)

Why is it sub q rather than muscle?  Just the way the stuff works or is it to slow it's absorbtion?


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## Tha Don (Dec 11, 2005)

hcg will be absorbed either way, so you can use either method, its just subQ is a much nicer shot than going IM, all your doing with subQ is breaking the skin with a tiny needle barely the width of a pin, its quick and painless and won't create any unnecessary scar tissue, so IMO it is preferred, also i read injecting water and oil based compounds together intra-muscularly can cause abcess


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## luke69duke69 (Dec 11, 2005)

Hmmm.  That was one of my next questions was if I could mix it with my test shot.  Even if I'm shooting the same day, I'm gonna shoot them in seperate shots then.  thanks for the input!!


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