# Any reason to do full deadlifts instead of rack pulls?



## ANadler (Jul 17, 2010)

Other than bigger cojones?

I'm 6'2" with long legs and poor hip and hamstring flexibility.  When I began starting strength this February I tweaked something on the inside of my right knee, not a major injury, but I removed posterior chain exercises for a couple of months.

When I reintroduced it, I decided to do rack pulls from just below my knee and it worked very well for me in terms of hamstring strength and adding weight to the bar steadily without hurting my knees further.  And just recently, I tried going with a very wide stance that so far has allowed me to do squats albeit with small weight on the bar to start with.

So my question is, I wanted to ask some of the more experienced lifters on the forum whether there are any very good reasons for me to do full deadlifts rather than rack pulls?  I have to bend down so much that it just feels like all knees.  And when I do a wide stance, it's too much focus on lower back and not on other areas.


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## Merkaba (Jul 17, 2010)

Can you do full squats?


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## ANadler (Jul 17, 2010)

Yes, but I hurt my knees using a just over shoulder width stance.  So far using a wider stance has been good, going well below parallel.


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## HeavyBomber (Jul 17, 2010)

You do wide stance squats way below parallel and you say your hip/ham flexibility is poor?
And you say doing a wide stance deads put too much focus on your lower back...

idk, nothing wrong with rack pulls... Do what you want to do.


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## ANadler (Jul 17, 2010)

HeavyBomber said:


> You do wide stance squats way below parallel and you say your hip/ham flexibility is poor?
> And you say doing a wide stance deads put too much focus on your lower back...
> 
> idk, nothing wrong with rack pulls... Do what you want to do.



Obviously it is poor, cause if it wasn't then my form on narrow stance squats would not have led to a knee injury.  I can't touch my toes, so flexibility is definitely the issue.  If wide stance squats somehow require greater flexibility, then maybe I'm misdiagnosing myself and I stand to be corrected.


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## Pirate! (Jul 17, 2010)

Deadlifts are good for glutes and hams.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gtbmed (Jul 17, 2010)

Lots wrong with this post...

If you have poor hip and hamstring flexibility there is no way in hell you can do wide stance squats below parallel.

A wide stance deadlift shifts more of the load onto the hips and hamstrings and lightens the load on the lower back.

You are likely misdiagnosing yourself or you're not getting/giving correct information about your current lifts.  Best to take a video of your current form if you want advice like this, because it's hard to judge without seeing you complete a lift.

Also, yes, deadlifts off the floor are very beneficial.  The extra range of motion is important and the quads get a lot more work.


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## Phineas (Jul 17, 2010)

gtbmed said:


> Lots wrong with this post...
> 
> If you have poor hip and hamstring flexibility there is no way in hell you can do wide stance squats below parallel.
> 
> ...



When performing sumo deadlifts I feel greater emphasis on the glutes (as with conventional deads), hip flexors, and adductors. I feel less hamstring than conventional. I don't feel the quads as much as others say they do in wide stance. For me, it seems to place greater emphasis at the very top of the hips/thighs.

I prefer conventional deads to all variations. I'm not a fan of rack pulls, to be honest. I'm sure they have their place, but I prefer lower pulling with greater ROM. And, if I was going to train a particular part of my deadlift it would be the bottom half of the lift -- from the floor to half-way. That's the hardest part of a deadlift; locking out is the "easy" part.


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## b56 (Jul 18, 2010)

*Rack pulls*

Just so that I understand,  what do you mean when you say a "rack pull"? Is that a deaflift with the safety bar in the bottom whole of the rack? In other words, is it a partial deadlift?


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## juggernaut (Jul 18, 2010)

I;m 6'1", and havent done back squats for a while. I enjoy hang cleaning the weight up and doing front squats for quads. As for your original question, full deads are imperative to growth overall, but you need to do them absolutely correctly or you will hurt yourself.

My suggestion to you would be to practice perfect form first, then add weight as you feel necessary. Remember two things-ass low knees high when in the starting position, and when you stand up, your chest remains high and your legs need to do the work-not your lower back. Watch the mirror from the side; you be traveling in a straight line from your knees to your shoulders.


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## ANadler (Jul 18, 2010)

Thanks for the advice everyone.  I'm going to put heavy weight out of my mind for a while and focus on form, see how it feels.


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## unclem (Jul 19, 2010)

form is everything in both deads and squats. the girls at the gym is not going to help you if your form isnt correct. i only do 225 5-10 reps, and theres tons of girls to impress but i dont give a fuck about whos watching. i do what feels fit for me. then u get guy putting 405 after me to show me up and is half the size going 2 inches down. see where iam coming from brother.


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## juggernaut (Jul 19, 2010)

unclem said:


> f...then u get guy putting 405 after me to show me up and is half the size going 2 inches down. see where iam coming from brother.


I was on vacation last week and had this experience. I was only using 305 for 4x8. I was on vacation and didnt want to overkill. I wanted to enjoy myself and not be in DOMS for the remainder of the week. Some dickweed comes over and bangs out the shittiest form I've seen in a while; back was bent, head down, etc. I actually got pissed off because I had my headphones on and he just starts talking to me. I wanted to smack the shit out of him, but my wife saw me getting hot and she came over to the weight area.


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## unclem (Jul 19, 2010)

yeah i here ya jugger, i feel like that sometimes but you are how you carry yourself. but hes using 405 and shit form, you do want to slap the fuck out them. lucky your wife was there i guess.


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## juggernaut (Jul 19, 2010)

unclem said:


> yeah i here ya jugger, i feel like that sometimes but you are how you carry yourself. but hes using 405 and shit form, you do want to slap the fuck out them. lucky your wife was there i guess.


I dont like being fucked with when I train. I'm very quiet and very zoned. He's grunting and screaming and here I am much larger and very quiet...so I guess it is how you carry yourself. Good point.


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## brk_nemesis (Jul 21, 2010)

b56 said:


> Just so that I understand,  what do you mean when you say a "rack pull"? Is that a deaflift with the safety bar in the bottom whole of the rack? In other words, is it a partial deadlift?


Yup, safety bars are a few inches below the knees. It takes the sticking point at the bottom of the left, out of the lift, though i do see retards @ the gym trying to do rack deads a few inches above the knee, which at that point I believe is fucking useless and they look like they are getting off on the bar.

Rackdeads have their place, I love them, but only in combination with traditional or rommy deads.


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## ANadler (Jul 21, 2010)

Bit of an update.

I've been wanting to make progress on military press, and after reading about doing 10 sets for 3 reps I tried on Monday, failed halfway through the 4th set with 70% of my max weight (only 70lbs).

But then I decided to try getting a full body workout by deadlifting and hang-cleaning the weight up for each set.  It feels reeeally great.  I got to 7 sets today, once I get 10 done I'm upping the weight by 10 pounds and starting over, plus I get to practice my deadlift and hang clean form.  My knees felt great throughout the lifts, as they should considering how light the weight is.  So I'm just happy about this setup overall.


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## gtbmed (Jul 21, 2010)

What's wrong with pulling from above the knee?  If you have a sticking point at just above the knee, strengthening your lift from that spot seems intuitive.


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## ANadler (Jul 21, 2010)

Hehehe, well that's the thing, my sticking point is at the bottom because I hurt my knee.  I was trying to train my posterior chain without aggravating the injury.  But don't think I have to do it that way.


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## brk_nemesis (Jul 22, 2010)

gtbmed said:


> What's wrong with pulling from above the knee?  If you have a sticking point at just above the knee, strengthening your lift from that spot seems intuitive.


There is nothing wrong with it if you are an experienced weight lifter. Unfortunately majority of the ppl who do it that way are not. Usually its some skinny ass kid with 4-5 plates each side, doing a 2-3 inch movement to show off to others, and thinks the movement is exactly the same as a real Deadlift.


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