# Help me argue with my professor



## Yanick (Apr 16, 2006)

My kinesiology professor is a pretty cool lady, knows her stuff, or atleast it seems like she does. Her one downside is she is one of those "oly lifts are dangerous and not necessary, 1 set per exercise is enough stimulation" etc. She reminds me of those Super Slow/HIT trainers. We got into a discussion about oly lifts (some guy asked about upright rowing the barbell up during cleans, and i had to correct him obviously ) She started telling the class about studies etc that say you don't need more than 1 set to stimulate a muscle and that oly lifts are dangerous with little to no positive returns. so i promised her that i would bring her some abstracts/studies to look at, so hopefully she'll get her head out of the sand and into the real world.

i remember Pat posted a bunch of stuff on oly lifting but i can't find it, and i remember waaaay back when, Dr. Pain used to say stuff like per x amount of hours of exercise oly lifters show less injuries than bodybuilders and powerlifters.

so if anyone can hook me up with some scientific evidence to back up my case i'll be a happy camper...i'll be looking around and if i find something of interest i'll be sure to post up here for all to see and critique. the only thing i ask is that the posts are scientific and not just articles by some guy on the internet, or if they are articles that they are referenced. thanks to all in advance who help me out.


----------



## Twin Peak (Apr 16, 2006)

Hey man.  I can't help...but its been years, and I wanted to say hello!


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

Brian Hamil did a study comparing sports injuries per 100 participant hours in school sports.  The results (based in percentages) showed that olympic weightlifting in the UK totalled .0017 of all those injuries.  Rugby in UK was 1.92 and rugby in AUS was seccond with 1.48.  AMerican Basketball registered a 1.03.  The highest sports injuries came from Soccer in the UK, registering a 6.20 injury rate.  Here is the study.

tell your teacher to suck my cock

your teacher is a stupid cunt

your teacher should die


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

I hate your teacher



> Weightlifters [Olympic style] have less than half the injury rate per 100 hours of training than do those engaged in other forms of weight training; 17 vs 35. (Hamill, B. ???Relative Safety of Weightlifting and Weight Training.??? Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 8(1):53-57.1994)





> Retired Olympic weight lifters had lower lifetime incidence and prevalence of low back pain than a control group of normal active men of similar age; 23% vs. 31%. (Granhed, H. et al. ???Low back pain among retired wrestlers and heavyweight lifters.???


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

your teacher should kill herself



> Effects of power training on muscle structure and neuromuscular performance.
> 
> Kyrolainen H, Avela J, McBride JM, Koskinen S, Andersen JL, Sipila S, Takala TE, Komi PV.
> 
> ...


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

how many athletes has your teaher ever trained?  Does she work out?  Or is she a fat fuck arm chair quadterback?



> Comparison of Olympic vs. traditional power lifting training programs in football players.
> 
> Hoffman JR, Cooper J, Wendell M, Kang J.
> 
> ...


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

It is so sad that your teacher stopped learning after she got her degree:



> Power and maximum strength relationships during performance of dynamic and static weighted jumps.
> 
> Stone MH, O'Bryant HS, McCoy L, Coglianese R, Lehmkuhl M, Schilling B.
> 
> ...


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

I can't believe the type of people they allow in the education field these days:



> Department of Kinesiology, Midwestern State University, Wichita Falls, Texas 76308, USA.
> 
> Muscular power is considered one of the main determinants of athletic performance that require the explosive production of force such as throwing and jumping. Various training methods have been suggested to improve muscular power and dynamic athletic performance. Although various acute training valuables (e.g., sets, repetitions, rest intervals) could be manipulated, the training loads used are some of the most important factors that determine the training stimuli and the consequent training adaptations. Many research results showed that the use of different training loads elicits the different training adaptations and further indicated the load- and velocity-specific adaptations in muscular-power development. Using the optimal loads at which mechanical power output occurs has been recommended, especially to enhance maximum muscular power. Additionally, introducing periodization and combined training approach into resistance-training programs may further facilitate muscular-power development and enhance a wide variety of athletic performances.
> 
> ...


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

you can't tell me that people in your class believe her!



> Biomechanical analysis of the knee during the power clean.
> 
> Souza AL, Shimada SD.
> 
> ...


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

just a few more on power



> Human muscle power output during upper- and lower-body exercises.
> 
> Siegel JA, Gilders RM, Staron RS, Hagerman FC.
> 
> ...


----------



## Vieope (Apr 16, 2006)

_I agree_


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

as far as the multiple set vs. single set debate.....jsut type that into pubmed and you will find data to support yourself.

give her a kiss for me too.


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

Here is one for you YAN.  Since you are pretty close to being a woman anyway:



> : J Strength Cond Res. 2004 Nov;18(4):689-94. 	Related Articles, Links
> Click here to read
> Effects of single- vs. multiple-set resistance training on maximum strength and body composition in trained postmenopausal women.
> 
> ...


----------



## Vieope (Apr 16, 2006)

_Do you understand everything you quoted there P? 
Dont lie to me, dont lie to me on easter. _


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

more fun with the teacher:



> 1: J Strength Cond Res. 2002 Nov;16(4):525-9. 	Related Articles, Links
> Click here to read
> Three sets of weight training superior to 1 set with equal intensity for eliciting strength.
> 
> ...


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _Do you understand everything you quoted there P?
> Dont lie to me, dont lie to me on easter. _




ofcourse I do.


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

more



> J Strength Cond Res. 2001 Aug;15(3):284-9. 	Related Articles, Links
> Click here to read
> Single- vs. multiple-set strength training in women.
> 
> ...


----------



## Tough Old Man (Apr 16, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> as far as the multiple set vs. single set debate.....jsut type that into pubmed and you will find data to support yourself.
> 
> give her a kiss for me too.


here I did it

*Single- vs. multiple-set resistance training: recent developments in the controversy.

**Galvao DA*, *Taaffe DR*.

School of Human Movement Studies, University of Queensland, Brisbane, Australia.

The number of sets in a resistance training program remains a major point of discussion and controversy. Studies prior to 1998 demonstrated inconsistent findings between single-set and multiple-set programs; however, recent evidence suggests that multiple sets promote additional benefits following short- and long-term training. The rationale supporting multiple sets is that the number of sets is part of the exercise volume equation, and the volume of exercise is crucial in producing the stimulus necessary to elicit specific physiological adaptations. The purpose of this paper is to present an overview of recent resistance training studies comparing single and multiple sets. However, it should be noted that studies to date have been conducted in young and middle-aged adults, and it remains to be determined if the additional benefits accrued with multiple-set training also occurs for older adults, especially the frail elderly.


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

still another...



> J Strength Cond Res. 2003 Feb;17(1):115-20. 	Related Articles, Links
> Click here to read
> The influence of volume of exercise on early adaptations to strength training.
> 
> ...


----------



## shiznit2169 (Apr 16, 2006)

p-funk is on a rage here

Just take yan's place and hide in disguise when u go to class and rip the teacher apart


----------



## Vieope (Apr 16, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> ofcourse I do.


_Good then I dont need to explain you anything. _


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

okay, one more and I will stop.  A quantitative analysis of previous studies.  this one should drive the stake in your stupipd teachers heart



> J Strength Cond Res. 2004 Feb;18(1):35-47. 	Related Articles, Links
> Click here to read
> Quantitative analysis of single- vs. multiple-set programs in resistance training.
> 
> ...


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> p-funk is on a rage here
> 
> Just take yan's place and hide in disguise when u go to class and rip the teacher apart




he choose two topics that I happen to have many studies on so I just cut and paste.  I have these printed in a big fucking binder of studies and articles.


----------



## Vieope (Apr 16, 2006)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> p-funk is on a rage here
> 
> Just take yan's place and hide in disguise when u go to class and rip the teacher apart


_ 

I think he is about to jump in one of her pockets and give tiny punches. _


----------



## Squaggleboggin (Apr 16, 2006)

P-Funk: I agree with the teacher. Olympic lifting is stupid and the most dangerous thing anyone ever attempted to put into a standardized sport. Functional lifting is also dumb. That is all.


----------



## tucker01 (Apr 16, 2006)

Hahaha.  You are close to Yan P..... Go to his class and tape it, that would be hilarious


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

Squaggleboggin said:
			
		

> P-Funk: I agree with the teacher. Olympic lifting is stupid and the most dangerous thing anyone ever attempted to put into a standardized sport. Functional lifting is also dumb. That is all.




lol....your sarcasm is to much.


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

IainDaniel said:
			
		

> Hahaha.  You are close to Yan P..... Go to his class and tape it, that would be hilarious




naw.....yan is a way smart dude.  He doesn't need me to argue for him.


----------



## tucker01 (Apr 16, 2006)

K maybe some tag team action.  Someone just tape it... it would be some funny shit


----------



## P-funk (Apr 16, 2006)

IainDaniel said:
			
		

> K maybe some tag team action.  Someone just tape it... it would be some funny shit




If I were to go it would be worth getting on tape.  Videotape specifiically.  Once that teacher got three words out of her mouth I owuld just start yelling....lol....yan has seen this happen before so he knows what it is like when i get pissed and loud.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Apr 16, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> he choose two topics that I happen to have many studies on so I just cut and paste.  I have these printed in a big fucking binder of studies and articles.




That's funny, I do the exact same thing, I call it my big binder of training.


----------



## CowPimp (Apr 16, 2006)

Wow, I need to start doing that with studies.  I always read shit and then have trouble digging it up again.  Me = stupid.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Apr 16, 2006)

Working in research has helped me alot in building it.  You would think that it would be because I have endless access to studies, but it is actually because I have endless access to binder tabs, copying, and printing paper.


----------



## CowPimp (Apr 16, 2006)

A study regarding volume...




> Influence of Resistance Exercise Volume on Serum Growth Hormone and Cortisol Concentrations in Women
> Susan E. Mulligan and Steven J. Fleck
> 
> Sports Science Division, U.S. Olympic Committee, Colorado Springs, Colorado 80909
> ...


----------



## CowPimp (Apr 16, 2006)

The volume debate continues...



> The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research: Vol. 18, No. 3, pp. 660???667.
> Single- vs. Multiple-Set Resistance Training: Recent Developments in the Controversy
> Daniel A. Galvão and Dennis R. Taaffe
> 
> ...


----------



## CowPimp (Apr 16, 2006)

Moderate volume reigns supreme in this one...




> The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research: Vol. 20, No. 1, pp. 73???81.
> Moderate Volume of High Relative Training Intensity Produces Greater Strength Gains Compared With Low and High Volumes in Competitive Weightlifters
> Juan José González-Badillo
> 
> ...


----------



## Emma-Leigh (Apr 17, 2006)

Just thought I would add this site to the mix (for those who are not aware of it): http://hypertrophy-research.com/index.html

Gives a lot of links to articles on training.

Oh... And there may also be info here:
http://nsca.allenpress.com/nscaonline/?request=get-archive


----------



## Brutus_G (Apr 17, 2006)

Damn p-funk you know your shit. People should try stuff before knocking it.


----------



## Trouble (Apr 17, 2006)

Physical adapation, including hypertrophy, is clearly a complex neuromuscular response cascade of cellular processes.  Progressive remodeling of the body that occurs throughout the duration of training depends on a plethora of factors.

To name one, such as volume, and ignore time under tension, intensity of effort, age, gender, duration of training, type of training, frequency of both training and rest, recovery dependent factors, and health status and regulation, is naieve.  To espouse this opinion as factual is unprofessional.

Your instructor is not well versed in the biochemistry and molecular biology of human muscle physiology.    

To argue with her in class will only hurt you.   You know better than she.


----------



## P-funk (Apr 17, 2006)

Brutus_G said:
			
		

> Damn p-funk you know your shit. People should try stuff before knocking it.



I didn't perform the studies.  I don't know anything.  I just know where to get the answers.


----------



## P-funk (Apr 17, 2006)

Trouble said:
			
		

> To argue with her in class will only hurt you.   You know better than she.



Don't listen to her!  What have I always told you.....Argue as much as you can.  If makes like more fun.    




haha....just kidding.  Don't argue with her infront of everyone.  Take it off the record and present your side of the story.  Don't do it in front of the class.  teachers hate that.....No one knows better then I.


----------



## Yanick (Apr 17, 2006)

wow, that was amazing. i knew Patty would have some stuff, but this is just plain ridiculous, i must've hit a button  thanks bro.

CP, Emma thank you both too for contributing. i have another week to do more research and read through everything so i think i'll have a strong case on tuesday.

I'm not gonna yell at my teacher in class, i'll wait till afterwards to present her with my stuff. she'll probably find a bullshit excuse to not open her mind to olympic lifting ("but its only N=20") or whatnot.  i've spoken to her about the likes of Bompa, Siff, Zatsiorsky and she has never heard of any of them...i believe she knows absolutely nothing about sports specific training and trains old ladies to walk up and down the stairs which, as noble of a feat as it is, is a completely different animal than sports training.


----------



## CowPimp (Apr 17, 2006)

Here is an excerpt from the Strength and Conditioning Journal: Vol. 28, No. 1, pp. 50-66.  The article is titled _Weightlifting: A Brief Overview_.




> Power. Commonly performed tests of power and ???explosive strength,??? such as a vertical jump, consistently show weightlifters to be among the most powerful of athletes (2,10,60,61). Two recent studies comparing the power output of athletes in different sports support this concept. McBride et al. (41) studied elite Australian weight-lifters, powerlifters, sprinters, and untrained subjects. Power output, normalized for body mass by analysis of covariance (ANCOVA), was assessed through weighted jumping. Jumps were performed at 0, 20, and 40 kg and at 30, 60, and 90% of their 1 repetition maximum (1RM) squat from a 90° knee angle. The results showed that the weightlifters produced the highest power output at any load (Figure 4) . Controlling for maximum strength differences and using weighted jumping, Stone et al. (69) again found weight-lifters to produce higher power outputs at any percentage of the maximum 1RM parallel squat compared with power-lifter/heavy weight trainers, wrestlers, or an untrained group (Figure 5) . These data (41, 69) indicate that weightlifting training can be advantageous for whole-body power production. There is no reason to believe that these results (i.e., the effects of weightlifting training) would not be advantageous for a variety of sports. The superior power output of weightlifters is likely partially genetic, but also stems from the type of training programs employed by weightlifters (18,19,27,61).
> 
> The training programs used by weightlifters (63) and conceptually similar training programs (27) have been shown to markedly increase strength and power. It should be noted that in terms of a whole-body movement, the snatch and clean and jerk afford the highest power outputs recorded in sport (18, 19). Examples of the average power outputs from various competition lifts are shown in Table 3 . Note that the power output, particularly in the second pull, for weightlifting movements is far in excess of that produced by the powerlifts (squat, bench press, deadlift). This observation suggests that (a) powerlifting is a misnomer, and (b) if the objective of training is to improve whole-body power output, then using high-power???generating exercises such as weightlifting pulling movements are reasonable.
> 
> ...




The author definitely seems to support to use of weightlifting for a variety of sports and the production of whole-body power.


----------



## CowPimp (Apr 17, 2006)

From the same article regarding injury potential, or lack thereof...



> Injury Potential. Ballistic movements, particularly those associated with weightlifting, have been criticized as producing excessive injuries (6); however, there is little objective evidence substantiating this claim. Reviews and studies of injury type and injury rates associated with weight training and weightlifting indicate that:
> 
> *
> 
> ...


----------



## Yanick (Apr 18, 2006)

CP, thats great. would you be able to post up the references for that article?


----------



## P-funk (Apr 18, 2006)

Yanick said:
			
		

> CP, thats great. would you be able to post up the references for that article?



he referenced it two posts up.  it was from last quarters NSCA journal on weightlifting.  If you want a copy of the article come up to my fucking apt. and get it...bitch.


----------



## Yanick (Apr 18, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> he referenced it two posts up.  it was from last quarters NSCA journal on weightlifting.  If you want a copy of the article come up to my fucking apt. and get it...bitch.



yea i know he referenced the article itself (and i already found it), but i don't have a subscription to that NSCA journal. i want the bibliography, if you will.

dude, i gotta come by. what you doin tomorrow? its my only day off this whole spring break.


----------



## P-funk (Apr 18, 2006)

Yanick said:
			
		

> yea i know he referenced the article itself (and i already found it), but i don't have a subscription to that NSCA journal. i want the bibliography, if you will.
> 
> dude, i gotta come by. what you doin tomorrow? its my only day off this whole spring break.




I am workin' fool.

here are your references:

Injury Potential. Ballistic movements, particularly those associated with weightlifting, have been criticized as producing excessive injuries (6)
*Brzycki, M. Speed of movement an explosive issue.  Nautilus.  Springs:8-11.1994*


Rates of injury are not excessive and the incidence of injury is less than those associated with sports such as American football, basketball, gymnastics, soccer, or rugby (25, 64, 78).
*Hamill, B.P. Relative safety of Weightlifting and weight training. J.Strength and Cond. Res. 8:53-57.1994*

*Stone, M.H., R. Keith, J.T. Kearney, G.D. Wilson, and S.J. Fleck. Overtraining. A review of the signs and symtoms of overtraining. J. Appl. Sports. Sci. Res. 5:35-50.1991*
*
Zaricznyj, B., L. Shattuck, T. Mast, R. Robertson, and D. D'Elia. Sports-related injuries in school aged children. AM. J. Sports. Med. 8:318-325. 1980*


you could probably type the journal info, numerbs and year in pubmed and get  the abstracts also.


----------



## Yanick (Apr 18, 2006)

good shit on the ref's. what hrs you working tomorrow? i'm free basically all day.


----------



## P-funk (Apr 18, 2006)

Yanick said:
			
		

> good shit on the ref's. what hrs you working tomorrow? i'm free basically all day.




I gotta work all AM, some shit never changes, come home, start doing laundry and then get back to the gym by 5 to work all night....you know how it goes.


----------



## P-funk (Apr 18, 2006)

....ps, are you ever going to fucking compete?  there are some push/pull meets coming up out on the island i believe.


----------



## CowPimp (Apr 18, 2006)

Thanks for the reference list there P.  Saved me some work.  Hehe.


----------

