# what to eat before morning workout?



## juggernaut (Mar 20, 2006)

I'm in the gym an hour after I wake up. This is what I eat before going into the gym-I want to know if this is okay, as there are times when I feel rather sluggish. Mind you, I'm in the middle of a cutting cycle:

1/2 cup oats
1/2 cup all bran
1 spoon splenda
1 cup strawberries OR blueberries
40g whey
CEE
green tea extract

I cant put too many simple sugars into my body because I tend to gain weight easily.


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## TaylorsNutrition (Mar 20, 2006)

juggernaut said:
			
		

> I'm in the gym an hour after I wake up. This is what I eat before going into the gym-I want to know if this is okay, as there are times when I feel rather sluggish. Mind you, I'm in the middle of a cutting cycle:
> 
> 1/2 cup oats
> 1/2 cup all bran
> ...



That's a lot of whey. I would reduce it just a little. If you are waiting an hour, you should be ok though.


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## vanessa5691 (Mar 20, 2006)

yes thats what i wanted to know! some people think its best to not eat anything at all before a workout to burn fat more sufficiently, but whenever I do that I fell dizzy and light-headed after doing cardio. Im wondering if maybe a protein shake BEFORE working out in the AM is  best...?


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## juggernaut (Mar 20, 2006)

thats not really a lot of whey for my size.


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## juggernaut (Mar 20, 2006)

I'm more interested in energy specific foods. I could always reduce the protein a bit and make up for it elsewhere in the day.


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## Jodi (Mar 20, 2006)

vanessa5691 said:
			
		

> yes thats what i wanted to know! some people think its best to not eat anything at all before a workout to burn fat more sufficiently, but whenever I do that I fell dizzy and light-headed after doing cardio. Im wondering if maybe a protein shake BEFORE working out in the AM is  best...?


Whatever you heard you heard wrong.  You should always eat before working out.  You can get away with doing morning cardio on an empty stomach but that depends on how lean you are.  If you are lean I wouldn't advise it.  If you are overweight then it would be fine so long as you can handle it.


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## CowPimp (Mar 20, 2006)

That looks like a pretty decent pre workout meal to me.


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## TaylorsNutrition (Mar 21, 2006)

juggernaut said:
			
		

> thats not really a lot of whey for my size.



My Bad. Didn't see your stats anywhere. But all in all, you should be fine.


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## Emma-Leigh (Mar 21, 2006)

Doesn't look too bad but I would drop the all-bran. Too much fibre in this meal pre-workout would slow digestion meaning you would not have enough digested before you hit the gym to give you energy etc...


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## juggernaut (Mar 21, 2006)

I was trying to drop the carbs. Should I stick with one full cup of oats?


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## furion joe (Mar 21, 2006)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Doesn't look too bad but I would drop the all-bran. Too much fibre in this meal pre-workout would slow digestion meaning you would not have enough digested before you hit the gym to give you energy etc...



Emma-Leigh, how long does it take for a carbohydrate source such as oatmeal (total amount is a variable I guess) to digest?  I mean, like the total time before any amount of glycogen can be formed?  I know it's an early first meal, just wondering how that works.  

In general, is it the increased blood sugar level (result of a the meal itself) that gives the energy as opposed to the use of stored glycogen for the workout?


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## Emma-Leigh (Mar 21, 2006)

juggernaut said:
			
		

> I was trying to drop the carbs. Should I stick with one full cup of oats?


Personally, the last place I drop carbs from a diet is pre-post training.  Drop them from other times instead.

But whether or not you go back up to an entire cup of oats is up to you. You could simply take out the all-bran and leave it at that (although I would want more carbs in this meal if I where you).

If you didn't want to increase to a full cup then increase to 0.66 or 0.75 cups and see how that goes... Either that or add another form of carbs such as yoghurt or milk.


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## Emma-Leigh (Mar 21, 2006)

furion joe said:
			
		

> Emma-Leigh, how long does it take for a carbohydrate source such as oatmeal (total amount is a variable I guess) to digest?  I mean, like the total time before any amount of glycogen can be formed?  I know it's an early first meal, just wondering how that works.


Digestion speed varies depending on a few things like what it is mixed with, what your digestive system is like, the type of oats you use.... Generally - if eaten on an empty stomach with nothing else - peak glucose levels are reached at about 30-45 minutes (see here )

Of course - adding things to this meal (protein etc) will alter the absorption rate. As would eating it on a non-empty stomach (eg: second or third meal of the day).

BUT - whether or not this would then go on to be stored as glycogen would depend on whether or not you needed the energy. As you would be lifting - your body would use the energy.



> In general, is it the increased blood sugar level (result of a the meal itself) that gives the energy as opposed to the use of stored glycogen for the workout?


Yes. Generally (complete blanket statement that is not entirely correct but we will leave it at that as I am late for work!!  ).


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## juggernaut (Mar 21, 2006)

furion joe said:
			
		

> Emma-Leigh, how long does it take for a carbohydrate source such as oatmeal (total amount is a variable I guess) to digest?  I mean, like the total time before any amount of glycogen can be formed?  I know it's an early first meal, just wondering how that works.
> 
> In general, is it the increased blood sugar level (result of a the meal itself) that gives the energy as opposed to the use of stored glycogen for the workout?



excellent question.


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## juggernaut (Mar 21, 2006)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Personally, the last place I drop carbs from a diet is pre-post training.  Drop them from other times instead.
> 
> But whether or not you go back up to an entire cup of oats is up to you. You could simply take out the all-bran and leave it at that (although I would want more carbs in this meal if I where you).
> 
> If you didn't want to increase to a full cup then increase to 0.66 or 0.75 cups and see how that goes... Either that or add another form of carbs such as yoghurt or milk.



Doesnt milk contains fat which would slow down absorption?


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## Tom_B (Mar 21, 2006)

juggernaut said:
			
		

> Doesnt milk contains fat which would slow down absorption?



Skim milk


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## furion joe (Mar 21, 2006)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Digestion speed varies depending on a few things like what it is mixed with, what your digestive system is like, the type of oats you use.... Generally - if eaten on an empty stomach with nothing else - peak glucose levels are reached at about 30-45 minutes (see here )
> 
> Of course - adding things to this meal (protein etc) will alter the absorption rate. As would eating it on a non-empty stomach (eg: second or third meal of the day).
> 
> ...



Understood, thanks for the reply.


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## furion joe (Mar 21, 2006)

juggernaut said:
			
		

> excellent question.



Cool, thanks.   Your original question as well.   

I was curious about the energy requirements for your early morning training session - how you respond to the pre-workout meal.  Things like: is it enough food, too much, how fast do you receive energy, strength levels, etc, etc.  Other variables come to mind, like quality of sleep, warm up, and such but that's a different topic.  

Considering that it is such an early workout (I'd be draggin' my azz through the gym an hour after waking  ); I was wondering if it would be beneficial for you to cut the whey in half and then double up on the oats (depending on type) and/or berries?  I mean, you are in a carbohydrate-depleted state as it is and you would need the carbs/energy to power/fuel your workout.  Then possibly, carbing up again afterwards (with protein of course), and then jacking up your protein and healthy fats throughout the rest of the day, while monitoring your carb intake?  

Interesting scenario I guess, while cutting, I was just thinking about your statement of being sluggish at times.  Comes with the territory I reckon.  Good luck with it!


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## CowPimp (Mar 22, 2006)

As an alternate suggestion to cutting out the all-bran, you could include some form of liquid which contains carbohydrates (Like juice).  From what I understand, liquid substances are still digested pretty fast, even in the presence of other foods in the stomach.  I've been using a combo of juice, oats, whey, and brewer's yeast for my pre-workout meal and it seems to do the trick.


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## juggernaut (Mar 23, 2006)

actually, I tried this yesterday. I was late in getting into the gym (overslept) and threw down some instant oats, a cup of OJ and a scoop of whey. I had more energy than usual. I can normally my other breakfast on my non-workout days (only 2) and take this down  on workout days. Sound good?


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## Gordo (Mar 23, 2006)

Only thing I'd add (and do) is 1 or 2 cups of strong coffee


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## Scott17 (Mar 23, 2006)

- Banana & Peanut Butter sandwich on whole wheat bread
- Protein shake ( 40g protein )
- Full glass of 100% Orange Juice

I porbably should add more to that...??


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## Emma-Leigh (Mar 23, 2006)

More?? Depends on your size (and the size of a 'glass')... But I would certainly dump the fats and add a better carb....


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## Emma-Leigh (Mar 23, 2006)

Hmmm... OJ I don't like - but if it works for you then it sounds fine (that is - as long as the BF keeps dropping then it is fine for your goals).


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## CowPimp (Mar 23, 2006)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Hmmm... OJ I don't like - but if it works for you then it sounds fine (that is - as long as the BF keeps dropping then it is fine for your goals).



You really think OJ is going to cause that much of an issue if you consume it right before a workout?  I would think that is one of the better times to consume OJ: your blood sugar is low first thing in the morning and you need to get those glucose levels up before you get to the gym.  As long as it is accompanied with a more streamlined source of energy (Oats in this case) to prevent a crash in blood sugar later in the workout I would think it's a great pre-workout item.  It has worked well for me anyway, and I am NOT a morning person at all.


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## juggernaut (Mar 23, 2006)

Emma, if not OJ then what? Apple ok?


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## katt (Mar 23, 2006)

I mix yogurt & oats (jodi's suggestion) and eat half before I go workout, then mix some whey in with the remainder when I get back and finish the rest.  And.. a cup of coffee, of course    

Seems to work for me!


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## CowPimp (Mar 23, 2006)

juggernaut said:
			
		

> Emma, if not OJ then what? Apple ok?



I'm sure she would approve.  Apples are uber low GI; lower than oats even.


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## Scott17 (Mar 23, 2006)

Ok, so maybe i can try that oatmeal and yogurt thing to add onto my breakfast meal.

BTW, i'm 6', 171 lbs.


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## juggernaut (Mar 23, 2006)

how about those flavored oatmeal packets? I thought the idea was to get higher glycemic carbs going, not "uber" (whatever the fu*k that is...) low


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## katt (Mar 23, 2006)

juggernaut said:
			
		

> how about those flavored oatmeal packets? I thought the idea was to get higher glycemic carbs going, not "uber" (whatever the fu*k that is...) low



Too much sugar in the flavored packets IMO..


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## Gordo (Mar 23, 2006)

I vote bananas...pre or post


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## Scott17 (Mar 23, 2006)

What if I snort pixie sticks post workout. Will that make my arms any bigger?


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## juggernaut (Mar 23, 2006)

sure will. I do it all the time. I also shoot up kool aid.


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## Scott17 (Mar 23, 2006)

Guys on the Q!! Quick chocolate mix! Oh snap!


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## juggernaut (Mar 23, 2006)

something wrong with you dude. and get that gay ass avatar off. its disturbing.


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## Scott17 (Mar 23, 2006)

lol


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## Emma-Leigh (Mar 23, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> I'm sure she would approve.  Apples are uber low GI; lower than oats even.


Actually no! 

Apples are not going to be the best thing right before a workout first thing. Too slow to digest and too high in fructose.

Personally - I think things like banana, berries, skim dairy, thinly rolled oats (I usually suggest pre-soaking them to speed/ease digestion) and whey (or at least egg whites) are the best bet for this situation.


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## Emma-Leigh (Mar 23, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> You really think OJ is going to cause that much of an issue if you consume it right before a workout?  I would think that is one of the better times to consume OJ: your blood sugar is low first thing in the morning and you need to get those glucose levels up before you get to the gym.  As long as it is accompanied with a more streamlined source of energy (Oats in this case) to prevent a crash in blood sugar later in the workout I would think it's a great pre-workout item.  It has worked well for me anyway, and I am NOT a morning person at all.


It is not 'horrible' but I am just not a fan of fruit juice... Also OJ is not the best juice for this situation (mix of glucose/fructose/sucrose is not as ideal as some of the other fruits). 

You can gain the same effect from better foods or just eating real fruit (eg: a ripe banana)... 

But with that said - if OJ works for you - stick to it.


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## juggernaut (Mar 23, 2006)

strawberries or blueberries ok?


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## CowPimp (Mar 23, 2006)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Actually no!
> 
> Apples are not going to be the best thing right before a workout first thing. Too slow to digest and too high in fructose.
> 
> Personally - I think things like banana, berries, skim dairy, thinly rolled oats (I usually suggest pre-soaking them to speed/ease digestion) and whey (or at least egg whites) are the best bet for this situation.



Isn't the fact that the apple is fructose kind of moot since these calories will probably be utilized before they have a chance to be shuttled off to the liver and stored as glycogen?  I don't meant to bust your chops, but my knowledge of diet information is kind of limited.  I need to throw these things at you so you can tear them down for me, heh.




> It is not 'horrible' but I am just not a fan of fruit juice... Also OJ is not the best juice for this situation (mix of glucose/fructose/sucrose is not as ideal as some of the other fruits).
> 
> You can gain the same effect from better foods or just eating real fruit (eg: a ripe banana)...
> 
> But with that said - if OJ works for you - stick to it.



Hrm, fair enough.  The only reason I really started using it is beacuse I like to supplement with brewer's yeast, and it mixes well with juice.  I just change the juice I use all the time.


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## Emma-Leigh (Mar 23, 2006)

It is not the fact that it will be 'converted to glycogen' that is the issue (because if the body needs the energy it is not going to store anything). 

But fructose is not really used by the muscles themselves - so the issue is that the fructose will still need to be converted in the liver to glucose (and this has to happen before it can be used as an energy substrate by the body/muscles).

This is one of the reasons why the GI is low for fruit (esp for fruits higher in fructose) - it is because the increase in blood glucose from the meal requires this metabolic step to occur.


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## Emma-Leigh (Mar 23, 2006)

juggernaut said:
			
		

> strawberries or blueberries ok?


These are fine.  (picking one - the blueberries are higher in calories, glucose and lower in fibre - so they would be more 'energy' releasing).


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## juggernaut (Mar 24, 2006)

here's another question: if I were to pick a fruit for POST workout nutrition-thats right after the gym, not an hour later, which should I choose? I heard that peaches are excellent for this. Am I right? What other fruits?


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## Gordo (Mar 24, 2006)

I think bananas and blueberries still win. Kiwi's would be good as well as dates.
Grapes might be another possiblity


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## Emma-Leigh (Mar 24, 2006)

High glucose fruits - So as Gordo suggested things like banana, blueberries, dates, grapes, pineapple etc etc.


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## CowPimp (Mar 24, 2006)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> It is not the fact that it will be 'converted to glycogen' that is the issue (because if the body needs the energy it is not going to store anything).
> 
> But fructose is not really used by the muscles themselves - so the issue is that the fructose will still need to be converted in the liver to glucose (and this has to happen before it can be used as an energy substrate by the body/muscles).
> 
> This is one of the reasons why the GI is low for fruit (esp for fruits higher in fructose) - it is because the increase in blood glucose from the meal requires this metabolic step to occur.



Gotcha gotcha.  Thanks for that tidbit Emma.  So a sugar like sucrose is more readily converted to glucose I take it?  How about lactose?  I know dairy products are generally moderate GI, but at the same time cause an insulin response similar to that of higher GI foods.

I know some about the steps between glucose and ATP, but I don't know much about the digestive processes that occur before that point in time.


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## Emma-Leigh (Mar 24, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Gotcha gotcha.  Thanks for that tidbit Emma.  So a sugar like sucrose is more readily converted to glucose I take it?  How about lactose?  I know dairy products are generally moderate GI, but at the same time cause an insulin response similar to that of higher GI foods.
> 
> I know some about the steps between glucose and ATP, but I don't know much about the digestive processes that occur before that point in time.


Surcose already contains glucose - so in that sense it has a slight advantage to fructose. It is a 'disaccharide' so it is half fructose and half glucose. 

Sucrose is cleaved into its two components in the intestine and then both are absorbed across the mucosa and into the blood. Once here - most of the fructose goes to the liver for processing while the glucose is free for immediate use. This is why sucrose isn't as high on the GI scale as pure glucose (glucose has a GI of about 100 on average, while sucrose averages out to be about 60 ish) but it is not as low as fructose (average of about 20). 

Lactose is the same sort of thing - it is also a disaccharide that is cleaved to galactose and glucose in the intestine and absorbed across the intestines into the blood. The glucose, once again, can be used immediately for energy while the galactose requires processing first... But the GI of lactose is lower than sucrose - about 48 ish. 

The reason why dairy has such a high II is because of the synergistic effects of the whey protein (especially the BCAAs in the whey) and the lactose - there is just something special about this mix.... If you think about it, evolutionary speaking it is pretty smart as it gives your body the "grow - NOW" signals (something you want/need when you are a growing infant!!).


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## juggernaut (Mar 24, 2006)

holy shit i started a good thread.


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## CowPimp (Mar 25, 2006)

Emma-Leigh said:
			
		

> Surcose already contains glucose - so in that sense it has a slight advantage to fructose. It is a 'disaccharide' so it is half fructose and half glucose.
> 
> Sucrose is cleaved into its two components in the intestine and then both are absorbed across the mucosa and into the blood. Once here - most of the fructose goes to the liver for processing while the glucose is free for immediate use. This is why sucrose isn't as high on the GI scale as pure glucose (glucose has a GI of about 100 on average, while sucrose averages out to be about 60 ish) but it is not as low as fructose (average of about 20).
> 
> ...



Good info Emma.  Just the answer I was looking for.  Thanks for taking the time to produce a constructive answer.  You rock.

Yes Juggernaut, you did.  Hehe.


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## juggernaut (Mar 25, 2006)

I started doing the morning workout with what Emma and everyone else said I should do. What a difference!!
I woke up this morning and took in 3/4 cup of instant oats, a cup of blueberries, some splenda, 1 scoop of whey, 1/2 cup of nonfat milk and coffee. I breezed through the work nicely.
Got home, took in a scoop of malto, a banana, 2 scoops of whey, CEE, C&E and an hour later I had turkey and Old Fashioned oats. 
Damn good work on this people. Thank you.


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## Velvet (Mar 28, 2006)

Your knowledge of nutrition is very impressive Emma, even more impressive is you can apply "layman's" to it just enuff so we can all understand it


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## juggernaut (Mar 28, 2006)

Emma, I teach and for me to be able to do that, I have to chew up the material and spit it back at them for assimilation. You do that, and you do it EXTREMELY well. I want to be as good a teacher as you are.


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