# Greatest Bodybuilder Ever



## animal56 (Jan 30, 2002)

Vote for it! Discuss amongst yourselves. Don't get mad if I missed 1 or 2 of your faves, just post em!


----------



## shooter (Jan 30, 2002)

I voted for Arnold because I think has done the most for the sport. I would list Ronnie Coleman in the top 5 just for the sheer size of him!   

http://www.bigroncoleman.com/Media/1998_04LG.jpg


----------



## shooter (Jan 30, 2002)

whoops that was 1998, here is 2001:

http://www.bigroncoleman.com/Media/Arnold.05_LG.jpg


----------



## Arnold (Jan 30, 2002)

I put Jay Cutler over Ronnie Coleman.


----------



## irontime (Jan 30, 2002)

Watching Arnold in 'Pumping Iron' was one of the most inspirational videos I've seen, so there's my go.


----------



## Arnold (Jan 30, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by irontime *_
> Watching Arnold in 'Pumping Iron' was one of the most inspirational videos I've seen, so there's my go.



"Louie, you're timing is all off...I think in about two more weeks you would have been ready!"

(I think that is the quote when they were eating breakfast)


----------



## seyone (Jan 30, 2002)

I like Frank Zane. just awesome proportions.  as far as todays bodybuildes I like shawn ray.


----------



## irontime (Jan 30, 2002)

The quote that did it for me in that movie was when Arnie said,
"Milk is for babies, I drink beer." 
I've had a hero ever since


----------



## Chainsaw (Jan 31, 2002)

Arnold rules.  I just can't believe I still haven't seen "Pumping Iron" yet. . .sheesh.


----------



## I Are Baboon (Jan 31, 2002)

I voted "other"because I wanted to vote for Arnie.  I didn't notice the clever "Uncle Arnold" name.  oops.


----------



## dojdave11 (Feb 1, 2002)

Arnold


----------



## Arnold (Feb 2, 2002)

I think that Arnold will always be most people's favorite for several reasons:

1.) He was a "pioneer" of the sport.
2.) Overall charisma & charm.
3.) He went on to become a famous actor.

that's my opinion.


----------



## King Penguin (Feb 2, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> I think that Arnold will always be most people's favorite for several reasons:
> 
> 1.) He was a "pioneer" of the sport.
> ...



Yeah I think you are right but I am sure I remember my parents talking about another actor who was also a body builder but was around a lot earlier than Arnie...Dero  we need your input!!


----------



## senopole (Feb 4, 2002)

Arnold is the man, i can't wait to see this "Pumping Iron" video you guys are talking about.


----------



## ALBOB (Feb 26, 2002)

No, I'm not old enough to have seen Steve Reeves compete but he's always been and probably always will be my favorite.  That was one gorgeous man.  Second, I like Big Lou because I think he epitomizes the determination to succeed, no matter what.  Third is Sergio Oliva, the first of the freaks.  He's still awesome, even by today's standards.  Finally it's Arnold, just because he's Arnold.


----------



## Timmy Foil (Feb 26, 2002)

Arnold's the man.  No questions asked.


----------



## ZECH (Mar 1, 2002)

*Hmm?*

Arnold has to be the MAN! But I voted for Frank Zane. I am old enough to remember him competing and he wasn't anywhere near the biggest but man could he pose! He could show what he had and made you think he had more than he did. Today I like Jay Cutler and Lee Priest. Ronnie is just UNBELIEVABLE!


----------



## THE_GAME (Mar 1, 2002)

I say Arnold.


----------



## seyone (Mar 1, 2002)

the reason I wouldn't say Arnold would be because of his legs, or lack of legs.


----------



## nastybull (Mar 2, 2002)

would be hell of a posedown all those guys but  you left out haney zane is my favorite


----------



## Lightman009 (Mar 13, 2002)

It's all about ARNOLD!


----------



## Arnold (Mar 15, 2002)

Oh yeah, he did leave out Lee Haney.


----------



## Hawkens (Mar 17, 2002)

I think to date Arnold has given back the most to the Sport that made hiim what he is today.


----------



## PRINTMASTER (Apr 2, 2002)

ARNOLD


----------



## Rusty (Apr 2, 2002)

What ever happened to Lee Haney????


----------



## snipes287 (Apr 9, 2002)

ARNOLD!  His weightlifting encyclapidea is exellent.


----------



## Twin Peak (Apr 10, 2002)

Dorian.  Hands down.  

Sorry, Arnold I love ya, but no comparison.


----------



## Mule (Apr 10, 2002)

I like Frank Zane... he is more likely a idle you could eventually catch up to size wise.


----------



## Twin Peak (Apr 11, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by IPMC *_
> What ever happened to Lee Haney????



Answer:  Dorian Yates


----------



## Arnold (Apr 11, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Answer:  Dorian Yates



LOL

I never cared for Dorian's physique though.


----------



## Twin Peak (Apr 11, 2002)

Prince -- I know some people don't.  I bet you llove Shawn Ray and Flex, right?


----------



## Arnold (Apr 11, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Prince -- I know some people don't.  I bet you love Shawn Ray and Flex, right?



I do not love any of them! 

I like Shawn Ray, never really cared much for Flex though.


----------



## Twin Peak (Apr 11, 2002)

Not Dorian or Flex?  So who do you like?  Isn't Ray a bit short?


----------



## Arnold (Apr 11, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> So who do you like?  Isn't Ray a bit short?



I do not really care for any of them.  Back in the 80's I liked Tom Platz, and Lee Larbrada.

Is Ray short? Aren't they all? 

How many pros have you met? It's rare to meet one that is over 5'8".


----------



## Twin Peak (Apr 11, 2002)

Dorian, was allegedly 5 10, Arnold 6'1", Ferrigno 6"6....

I think the average is about 5'10"

Ray is like 5'5 though


----------



## Arnold (Apr 11, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Dorian, was allegedly 5 10, Arnold 6'1", Ferrigno 6"6....
> 
> I think the average is about 5'10"
> ...




Shawn Ray is around 5' 6"

Yeah, there are a few tall ones, but the majority are not, I have met many of them, more than I can remember.

I would say the average is 5' 8".


----------



## Michael Marx (Apr 11, 2002)

Zane-For showing that there's more to body building than who has the most mass. The man had and still has the perfect proportions. I feel that Zane and Reeves were in the same class.


----------



## Rusty (Apr 11, 2002)

Prince, How do you meet so many of these guys????


----------



## Arnold (Apr 11, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by IPMC *_
> Prince, How do you meet so many of these guys????



Local/State Bodybuilding competitions. They always have a pro bodybuilder guest pose.

I went to one last Saturday and saw Jay Cutler.


----------



## Markus (Apr 14, 2002)

Put me down for Arnold due to him being the modern day pioneer, of late I think Jay is in proportion and coming up through the ranks Abbas Khatami has heaps going for him.


----------



## stubb (Apr 17, 2002)

Got to love Franco Columbo!!!  Short guy who could burst hot water bottles like balloons!!!!!!!!!


----------



## isenbcc (May 2, 2002)

Arnold is a stud. He dedicated his life to the sport and deserved all that he acomplished.


----------



## mick01 (May 5, 2002)

Although Im a big fan of Mentzers principals, I had to vote for Serg. His symmetry cant be beat.

Mick


----------



## Sub-Zero (May 11, 2002)

Arnold !!

Bodybuilding would NEVER be what it is today, if it weren't for him


----------



## bigss75 (May 12, 2002)

Yates brought the sheer mass to bodybuilding. But i would pick Arnold for what he pick for the sport.


----------



## superphenix (May 17, 2002)

Arnold is the man since his impact to the sport of bodybuilding has been the greatest.


----------



## Var (May 17, 2002)

I voted Arnold.  I know a lot of the new guys are much bigger, but I think he had a look that blows the "freaks" away.  Not to mention all he's done for the publicity of the sport.


----------



## Blade (May 22, 2002)

i say mike mentzer


----------



## the_menace (May 31, 2002)

Overall, the best has been Shawn Ray and all the rest are just over rated.  As of today's, Dennis James is moving on top and may be the future Olympia.


----------



## Solid_Steel (Jun 5, 2002)

Definetely Arnold


----------



## john992 (Jun 9, 2002)

*Frank Zane*

In my opinion and I believe many others opinions as well, Frank Zane is the greatest bodybuilder of all-time.  Reasons include pure aesthetic look (pleasing to the eye), in my opinion the best poser of all-time he perfected many original poses including the stomach vacuum which you rarely see due to the growth hormone and portruding "ROID GUTS" these days.   At 185 lbs. Frank Zane was not a freak show he simply carried a exceptionaly large muculature which was chiseled to perfection.  HIs body image was that of a greek god.


----------



## LAM (Jun 9, 2002)

Well one that is not on the list and definitely should be is Lee Haney.  He did not win the Mr ???O??? 8 times in a row for nothing.

For pure aesthetics I would have to say Milos Sarcev or Bob Paris.


----------



## john992 (Jun 9, 2002)

For those of you who are wondering about Shawn Rays height I read that he is 5'7.


----------



## BabyArnold (Jun 10, 2002)

Always will be Arnold. It's like asking who the greatest basketball player of all time is (M. Jordan). Arnold, M.J. and Micheal Jackson are names that are universal. You can go to any little country or town on this planet and everyone has heard of them..


----------



## Craft (Jun 10, 2002)

and the winner is....

*Arnold Schwarzenegger*!


----------



## TJohn (Jun 10, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Craft *_
> and the winner is....
> 
> *Arnold Schwarzenegger*!



Most definitely 

TJohn


----------



## Fitpix (Jun 10, 2002)

I truly admire Zane's symmetry


----------



## john992 (Jun 10, 2002)

Another Zane fan in the house up to 11.1%! Any other takers on the board?


----------



## Chest Rockwell (Jul 23, 2002)

Arnold is da man for what he did for the sport of bodybuilding.

I think Flex Wheeler could have been the best of all time.
He is probably the most genetically gifted bodybuilder of all time.
(I'm going to get crap for the statement above)
His physique is amazing but I have read that alot of the pro don't respect him because he doesn't give an all out effort all the time.


----------



## david (Jul 23, 2002)

I liked Dorian bc/ he was hardcore!


----------



## wanablifter (Jul 30, 2002)

presonaly i like Milos Sarcev i think he is well preportioned.


----------



## nikegurl (Jul 30, 2002)

forgot one - Robby Robinson.  he's so underrated in my opinion.

i still voted for Arnold but think Robby is up at the top of the "greatest ever" lists.


----------



## wanablifter (Jul 30, 2002)

whats so bad about flex?


----------



## EarWax (Jul 30, 2002)

I'd vote for Arnold, but he's a Republican...


----------



## KataMaStEr (Jul 30, 2002)

Arnold is The Man. And from today bodybuilders my favorite is Jay Cutler he is freaking huge for a tall guy...


----------



## sawheet (Aug 1, 2002)

anyone who is still alive and has somewhat of a liver and kidneys left.


----------



## wanablifter (Aug 1, 2002)

arnold is the man he is the one who primarily started it all. he is awesome. #2 in my books if not # 1..


----------



## Mudge (Aug 9, 2002)

Arnold was not only big, but honestly he was a truly asthetic bodbuilder, he looked just awesome, some bodybuilders can be huge and ripped but just look awkward, Arnie is one to remember.


----------



## Mudge (Aug 9, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> 
> 
> "Louie, you're timing is all off...I think in about two more weeks you would have been ready!"
> ...



Yeah, what a mental game he used to play with people! Rough...

For KaZaA lite users, you can find it out there, 633MB I believe.


----------



## Mudge (Aug 9, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Dorian.  Hands down.
> 
> Sorry, Arnold I love ya, but no comparison.



I think Dorian was just a hunk of white meat, he didn't look asthetic to me IMO, just a huge mother.


----------



## Mudge (Aug 9, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Dorian, was allegedly 5 10, Arnold 6'1", Ferrigno 6"6....
> 
> I think the average is about 5'10"
> ...



Dorian 5'11" from what I heard
Arnie 6'2"
Lou 6'5"


----------



## Mudge (Aug 9, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> forgot one - Robby Robinson.  he's so underrated in my opinion.
> 
> i still voted for Arnold but think Robby is up at the top of the "greatest ever" lists.



Vince Taylor for that matter! They both looked great.


----------



## Mudge (Aug 9, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by KataMaStEr *_
> Arnold is The Man. And from today bodybuilders my favorite is Jay Cutler he is freaking huge for a tall guy...



Umm, your 6'4" and Jay is like 5'9"....?


----------



## Fit Freak (Aug 18, 2002)

I think it's very hard to choose since today's bbs have such an adge with all the drug abuse these days as well as the new scientific data they have to rely on.........

Despite this Arnold would have to be #1 but not to be compared to the BBs of today.

As far as the modern BBs I'd have to say it's a toss up b/w Dorian and Ronnie..............I'll go with Ronnie.........great size and excellent cuts in the glutes, hams, amazing back, great biceps peak!  His only major downfall has to be his abs......in this department I'd have to say that Shawn Ray rules!  Also, I think that the cuts in Ronnie's quads also need some attention....they're huge but that's it.

Even though I chose Ronnie my personal favorite today is Dexter Jackson....always super hard and ripped with excellent symmetry!


----------



## Mudge (Aug 19, 2002)

I like Ronnie's build better, Dorian looked like a blob to me.


----------



## firestorm (Nov 17, 2002)

Agrees with you BIG TIME!!  Speaking of Pumping Iron, I don't know if any of you caught it but this past weekend on CINEMAX Cable TV, They aired it for the 20th year anniversary of the film.  Afterwards was a show "the making of Pumping Iron" with interviews with many of the stars and never been seen footage that was cut out.   F#$ken awesome.   Noted that Arnie appears to have had a face lift.  lol   





> _*Originally posted by irontime *_
> Watching Arnold in 'Pumping Iron' was one of the most inspirational videos I've seen, so there's my go.


----------



## Dorian (Nov 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Sub-Zero *_
> Arnold !!
> 
> Bodybuilding would NEVER be what it is today, if it weren't for him



If thats the reasoning it has to be Joe Weider. Arnold would be nothing without him.


----------



## Twin Peak (Nov 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by firestorm *_
> Agrees with you BIG TIME!!  Speaking of Pumping Iron, I don't know if any of you caught it but this past weekend on CINEMAX Cable TV, They aired it for the 20th year anniversary of the film.  Afterwards was a show "the making of Pumping Iron" with interviews with many of the stars and never been seen footage that was cut out.   F#$ken awesome.   Noted that Arnie appears to have had a face lift.  lol



I saw this and it was great.

Because of it I am going to have to change my vote from Dorian to Arnold.  Arnold is the Greatest Bodybuilder of All Time.  Dorian had the most impressive physique though, much better than Ronnie, IMO.


----------



## firestorm (Nov 19, 2002)

I hated Dorians arms after the bicep tears.  They never looked that good after that.   A rear double bi shot and he had absolutely no peak to his biceps. they just looked wrong.   Still If someone said I could have anyones arms in the business I'd still say Arnies.   The little Aussie fella  Has great arms but my being 6 feet tall, they wouldn't be long enough on my body.  hahahaha


----------



## Arnold (Nov 30, 2002)

I never cared for Dorian Yates physique.


----------



## firestorm (Dec 2, 2002)

I'm with you Prince.  Never a favorite of mine either.  I wouldn't want his look.


----------



## Twin Peak (Dec 2, 2002)

I couldn't disagree more.  But that's what makes this stuff so subjective.  I just loved the hardness he had.  His muscles looked so dense and thick.


----------



## firestorm (Dec 2, 2002)

Will not argue about his thickness and denseness this is all fact.  there was just something that just struck me  with him in his last few Olympias.  Not sure exactly but the torn bicep surely comes to mind.


----------



## Twin Peak (Dec 2, 2002)

I understand you views, cuz I feel the same way about other pros.  You just look at them and think "I don't like his physique".  I feel that way about Gunther, for example.

To me, Dorian just looked awesome.


----------



## firestorm (Dec 2, 2002)

Hey Twin,, you look awesome to me baby!!!  hahahaha


----------



## Twin Peak (Dec 2, 2002)

Dude, if you're hitting on me you should know I don't go there.


----------



## firestorm (Dec 2, 2002)

Lmao.  Don't worry, neither do I. My wife would get pissed if I brought a guy home.  hahahaha


----------



## Twin Peak (Dec 2, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by firestorm *_
> Lmao.  Don't worry, neither do I. My wife would get pissed if I brought a guy home.  hahahaha



Perhaps not if it were me.


----------



## Twin Peak (Dec 2, 2002)

Where in Jersey do you live/work anyway?

(Just out of curiousity, I'm not coming over!!!!)


----------



## firestorm (Dec 2, 2002)

I live in Hamilton Twp. outside of Trenton.  I work in Princeton; 5 mins from the University.


----------



## Twin Peak (Dec 3, 2002)

Ahhh.  I have family near there.


----------



## firestorm (Dec 3, 2002)

Where abouts?


----------



## cheesegrater (Jan 10, 2003)

Arnold with Ferruccio Lamborghini a close second

the Countach and Diablo's and new Murcielago convertibles are almost orgasm inducing


----------



## Stickboy (Jan 14, 2003)

I voted for Arnold, for many of the reasons already stated.

For todays pro's - I like Jay Cutler.  (Still think he should have taken Mr O from Ronnie).  I also like Gunter.


----------



## Pumping Iron (May 28, 2003)

ARNOLD IS NUMERO UNO!!

Arnold is by far the best bodybuilder ever, no questions asked. He built an insane physique, with both size and cuts, that were no where close to being matched. If he had today's juice, there's no telling how big Arnold may have gotten. Yes, he had dbol and some primo, but  no winnie-v, sust, primo, deca, and all the other drugs that guys nowadays take all of.


----------



## Pumping Iron (May 28, 2003)

As far as nowadays, no question that Ronnie is UNBELIEVABLE!!!

And Lee Haney did dominate for almost a decade...


----------



## gr81 (May 28, 2003)

DO I have to even say anything? lets give ronnie some love fellas. He has the best back and bis in the game, no one can match his muscle hardness, and he is a STRONG motha fucka, we gotta give ronnie some love


----------



## Pumping Iron (May 30, 2003)

Definitely..
Ronnie is the f*ckin man the last 5 or 6 years. The guy is insane. He has an insane back and awesome bi's no doubt, plus his legs are as good or better than anyone out there. He's my second favorite all time behind Arnold. His only weak spot is his midsection, where he can definitely fix. Hopefully he'll win it this year too!


----------



## BigBallaGA (Jul 18, 2003)

JAY better fucking win this year.  Ronnie has the most fucked up biceps i've ever seen, its like 2 or 3 balls,,,doesnt look like a complete muscle.........especially his left arm.    looks nasty. 

Cutty has it all, and much better mid-section than Coleman hands down,, and he looked cut up in 2001,, bullshit he didnt win.

Dorin Yates sucks ass!

Arnold is ofcourse the man !

and no one has given props to Kevin Levrone,,, he is da man too !


----------



## gr81 (Jul 18, 2003)

no way Jay looks better. Ronnie is harder, he has more seperation and thickness (especially inthe back and legs). Jay loks great but not better than Ronnie. I saw them in person at a pose down a few months ago ( at a higher BF%) but Ronnie still has him beat. The midsection is all that he has him beat at. To beat the champ you must prove that you re better than him, and Cutler can't do it, I am telling you Ronnie is harder, thats why he hasn't been beat.

By the way how can you say Dorian sucks ass? You gotta give the man his props even if you don't like him.


----------



## buff_tat2d_chic (Jul 18, 2003)

I like Arnold...but I prefer Jay Cutler.


----------



## ArduousMeister (Jul 18, 2003)

I have to agree with everything said about Arnold ... I am thinking about digging out my copy of Pumping Iron .... but I also think Dorian and Ronnie rank up there as well.


----------



## BUSTINOUT (Jul 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gr81 *_
> no way Jay looks better. Ronnie is harder, he has more seperation and thickness.
> 
> I am telling you Ronnie is harder, thats why he hasn't been beat.



From my vantage point of the third row at the 2001 Olympia, I will strongly disagree with this.  Jay had his ass wipped up and down.  Ronnie looked great but was off that night.  Remember, I'm not talking about an ESPN vantage point either.  Ol' Ronnie is on barrowed time.


----------



## gr81 (Jul 21, 2003)

maybe he looked better in the morning show when the judging usually takes place. It is all staged anyways, who wins and who doesn't.


----------



## BUSTINOUT (Jul 21, 2003)

Man I cannot agree more about it all being staged.

Jay had Ronnie's butt whipped nine way to sunday during the prejudge too.  Jay was up about 5 points going into the night show.  That's when I knew it was a fluke and sent Wayne D an email telling him not to insult our intellegence or our pocket books with all the VIP BS.


----------



## gr81 (Jul 22, 2003)

true that. It reminds me of some WWF drama the way they make things out to be. Its too bad


----------



## oaktownboy (Aug 17, 2003)

i wish lou didn't retire early and go into acting He had such great potential He could have been great


----------



## BigBallaGA (Aug 30, 2003)

if jay doesnt win this year, then it must be some kind of a f000cking conspiracy.  because he definitely looked more cut, shredded and just in overall better condition when he "lost" to the freak !


----------



## gr81 (Sep 25, 2003)

they are all freaks  first of all, and secondly to be the man you have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are better and No one has done that to Coleman yet, whether you guys like it or not


----------



## Flex (Oct 1, 2003)

That is perfectly stated Gr...they have to knock Coleman off to win!

Whos the new guy in your pic (is that Tim Belknap?)


----------



## Arnold (Oct 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gr81 *_
> No one has done that to Coleman yet, whether you guys like it or not



well, seeing that bodybuilding is EXTREMELY subjective and political that is really only a matter of opinion!


----------



## gr81 (Oct 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Flex *_
> That is perfectly stated Gr...they have to knock Coleman off to win!
> 
> Whos the new guy in your pic (is that Tim Belknap?)




Nope, you should know this one bro, it is our boy John Defendis! he is fucking stacked


----------



## oaktownboy (Oct 3, 2003)

motha fucka that guy is ripped beyond belief..combine that with all of his knowledge..wow


----------



## oaktownboy (Oct 3, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oaktownboy *_
> i wish lou didn't retire early and go into acting He had such great potential He could have been great


???? any thoughts


----------



## BigBallaGA (Oct 3, 2003)

ARNOLD,,,, without a doubt !!

bar none


----------



## gr81 (Oct 3, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oaktownboy *_
> ???? any thoughts




I don't think so. He did BB for plenty of time and I think tht he was as successful as he was gonna be. no doubt he had a great physique but I think he was too tall to really have an overpowering look needed to beat out the other top guys. I think that he realized tha and went on to further his career in a different field. He was as great as he was going to be IMO, which was still pretty great. everyone knows that Lou Ferrigno was a great BB just hearing the name.


----------



## RedDragon (Oct 19, 2003)

Well no one has said my favorite yet so I think I'l take it and runs with it. I gotta say that I think Arnold is awesome, but I voted for Frano Columbo. I just love the lats on that man. I mean damm it looks like he could actually use them for wings and fly away. Plus I have to stick up for the little guy. What was he like 5,6?


----------



## Flex (Oct 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RedDragon *_
> Well no one has said my favorite yet so I think I'l take it and runs with it. I gotta say that I think Arnold is awesome, but I voted for Frano Columbo. I just love the lats on that man. I mean damm it looks like he could actually use them for wings and fly away. Plus I have to stick up for the little guy. What was he like 5,6?



Right dude? i love Franco's "wings", they are incredible.

Franco was listed at 5'5", but many people say he was actually closer to 5'4". That dude packed some impressive muscle on that tiny frame.


----------



## TheGreatSatan (Nov 3, 2003)

Who the FUQ is Schwarzenegger?


----------



## soyhead (Dec 6, 2003)

Lee Priest
Danny Padilla
Mohamed Makkawy


----------



## TheGreatSatan (Dec 6, 2003)

No way, it's Lou!


----------



## MeatheadSam (Dec 6, 2003)

Arny of course.


----------



## soyhead (Dec 7, 2003)

It's Lee Priest


----------



## soyhead (Dec 7, 2003)

*Perfect back*



> _*Originally posted by Flex *_
> Right dude? i love Franco's "wings", they are incredible.
> 
> Franco was listed at 5'5", but many people say he was actually closer to 5'4". That dude packed some impressive muscle on that tiny frame.


----------



## soyhead (Dec 7, 2003)

I agree, Franco is far better than everyone, even Coleman.

Coleman has a big BUTT.  It's massive!


----------



## kvyd (Aug 3, 2004)

milos sercev??  What you guys think of him?


----------



## IanHUK (Sep 3, 2004)

It's definately got to be Dorian Yates. His back was huge!!


----------



## soxmuscle (Sep 3, 2004)

Arnold might not have been the best bodybuilder ever, but to me, he is the reason why I bodybuild and for that I thank him and vote for him.


----------



## Luke9583 (Sep 3, 2004)

Reg Park.









http://www.briansdriveintheater.com/hercules/regpark/regpark14.jpg 

20 years b4 arnold.


----------



## tenxyearsxgone (Sep 18, 2004)

You are kidding right?  Steve Reeves did do steroids, arnold has even commented on it and how his american idols influenced him, he loved reg park and steve reeves.  Just because these guys looked nothing like arnold and never achieved great proportions do not play into the mystification that steroids equates to looking like arnold.  I just found out that a guy i went to high school with had taken steroids, he was the last guy you would have thought would be taking them, meanwhile you have guys who are natural and look like they take steroids.  Anyway I vote for Arnold on the fact that the steroids he and his peers took during the golden years of bodybuilding, late 60's to mid 70's, were not nearly as much, as calculated or as influential as they were in the late 70's and really beginning in the 80's.  From what i've been told by avid bodybuilders today is that arnold was taking d-bol's, which are well-known, cheap, and one of the worst forms of steroids.  Arnold relied more heavily on his style of training and eating like a man at the last supper.  What is even more scary to me is that the majority if pictures that we see of arnold are dominated by his famous 1975 mr olympia in pretoria south africa, a year after he decided to retire.  When he was approached by the directors of pumping iron he had already been out of the game for a while, wasn't training or eating nearly as much.  I've seen only a few pictures of arnold in his prime from 70-73, and he was a lot bigger, more proportioned as far as his legs are concerned, and just more of a freaking monster.  The measurements we always read about are from 1975, and i'd estimatehe was about 85% to his previous best.  I've read that his arms in his prime were a bit over 23" and closer to a 60" chest up closer to around 255-260.  He most certainly was not as striated or "cut" as modern day bodybuildes, but the fat intake of the men of his day was a lot higher.  They invented bodybuilding in its present form, he has achieved more than any bodybuilder would ever.  What is even scarier is that earlier i wrote that arnold decided in 73-74 that he did all he wanted to do with bodybuilding winning the most world titles and wanted to become a prominent actor, winning more in bodybuilding at least was not his main goal, he was a multi-dimensional person.  If Arnold kept his prime in 73 and continued it to 80 where he won his 7th Olympia, he would have had 11 Mr. Olympias because no one could have challenged him.  Hahaha, before you laugh me off remember ronnie is what? 40?  Arnold was 33 in 1980 when he won...now as i said if he went straight through he would have won 11 times as mr olympia..if he continued to his 40th birthday on top of his game as ronnie did, plus dont forget science was being revolutionized through gov't subsidies in America during Reagan...as why we see a shift in the look if mid 1980 bodybuilders...arnold would have won 18 MR OLYMPIAS BY THE AGE OF 40 IN 1987 ! ! !  now you can say this is all speculation and he may not have won all 18 but he sure would have come close to double digits if not more.  Point being, stop comparing 1975 arnold to anyone...do research...find the arnold of the early 1970s and then after you sh*t your pants, clean it up, throw it out, and realize the amazing undiscovered arnold we never see!  

  PS If you see in the beginning of pumping iron when arnold is approached in his off season by the pumping iron director's in early 1973, his chest is freaking enourmous he is much bigger than he was in 1975, that is amazing.  It maybe in the special features, but look for it just to get a glimpse of what i've been saying!!!


 TYG


----------



## Flex (Sep 18, 2004)

At his biggest he got up to around 250.

And he did take more than just dbol, although those were the main drugs. Primo and test were also huge back then.

I agree with you, bro, i think Arnold has the best physique ever. EVen though his legs are smaller than today's monsters, Arnold just has this aesthetic look to him, with his tiny waist-upper body ratio. The GH guy monsters today have bloated stomachs, and their legs (although i do love them....ie Platz) almost overshadow their upper bodies.

IMO if Arnold had the drugs back then that they do today, there's no telling what kinda freakin MONSTER he'd have become.

There are 2 physiques though that i think are right there with Arnold's. Flex Wheelers of '97-98 (before he got big), and of course, the incredible Ronnie Coleman of today.


----------



## jack52 (Sep 18, 2004)

Dave Draper- Next question please!


----------



## madden player (Sep 18, 2004)

tenxyearsxgone said:
			
		

> You are kidding right? Steve Reeves did do steroids, arnold has even commented on it...


Unless you can back that statement up, it is fucking bullshit.  Steve Reeves was a natural bodybuilder...Some of his last writings were for the all natural muscular development mag and if you read anything he ever wrote you would understand his dislike for steroids and users...WTF you gonna say next Jack Lelanne ate dbol by the handfull??

...if it matters to anyone these are my fav 3 bodybuilders in no particular order:
1. Steve Reeves
2. Arnold Schwarzenegger
3. Dorian Yates


----------



## tenxyearsxgone (Sep 19, 2004)

haha so steve reeves was given money to write in a column for a mag so that must mean he his lived his life in the past according to their ideals?  get a clue buddy.  arnold dislikes steroids and had pushed to get drug testing in the competitions, they were unaware of the gross side affects that would take place and only be found years later.

 Anyway, flex, if arnold had the amount of science and precision on lifting, diet, supplementation back then as we do today who knows the endless possibilities?


----------



## Flex (Sep 19, 2004)

madden player said:
			
		

> Steve Reeves was a natural bodybuilder...Some of his last writings were for the all natural muscular development mag and if you read anything he ever wrote you would understand his dislike for steroids and users...



bro, Ronnie Coleman "writes" for muscle magazines. you think he actually prescribes to the wo regime and diet they talk about? i don't think so....


----------



## Flex (Sep 19, 2004)

tenxyearsxgone said:
			
		

> arnold dislikes steroids and had pushed to get drug testing in the competitions, they were unaware of the gross side affects that would take place and only be found years later.
> 
> Anyway, flex, if arnold had the amount of science and precision on lifting, diet, supplementation back then as we do today who knows the endless possibilities?



disliked steroids? def. not true back then. Maybe now that he's on the "legal" side of society he pushes the anti-steroid thing.

as to your 2nd part, i think Arnold would be the biggest mofo ever.


----------



## Flex (Sep 19, 2004)

Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooa!

I chose Arnold cuz he's my fav. of all time, but where's Ronnie on the list? Ronnie is THE greatest BB ever.......


----------



## madden player (Sep 19, 2004)

Steroids were before Steve Reeves time...any fucking moron who doesn't believe can go fuck themselves...What kinda moron can say Ron Coleman and Steve Reeves in the same fucking sentence??....

Steve Reeves never competed with the aid of steroids!!!...

Find me the fucking statement to back your bullshit up!!  I don't give a fuck what any competing bodybuilder does with his life and what the fuck he writes about in muscle mags, but any person with a fucking brain will tell you Steve Reeves was no juice monkey.

Learn some bodybuilding history.


----------



## Flex (Sep 19, 2004)

first of all, relax, tough guy. Resorting to petty insults only shows me, and everyone else, the lack of your knowledge, and this is only your 2nd post i've ever read.

secondly, i DON"T GIVE A FUCK wether Steve Reeves took steroids. The reason i brought up Ronnie is because you said Steve Reeves wrote for a nat'l magazine, and i said so does Ronnie Coleman. Therefore, because they write for those magazines doesnt mean they never took steroids.

You're talking to the WROOOOOOOOng person about BB history, too man. I've read more about BB's history than you will in your lifetime.
You wanna talk history, though? 

Guys like Charles Atlas, Bill Pearl, Reg Park, John Grimek and others alike had just as much influence back in the day IMO as Reeves. To me, in the context of the entire BB history, when you bring in Arnold's Golden Era, the great '80's, and the present day monsters, Steve Reeves isn't shit. 

"find you a fucking statement to back up my bullshit?" 
i hope you ain't talking to me like that, little man. Again, i DON'T GIVE  A FUCK if he juiced or not. I was simply disproving your dumbass logic that b/c he wrote for that mag he never juiced.

and finally.......
You say you "don't give a fuck what any competing bodybuilder does with his life and what the fuck he writes about in muscle mags, but any person with a fucking brain will tell you Steve Reeves was no juice monkey"? 

That's funny, the way your getting all defensive about him makes one believe you care whether or not people thinks he juiced. It sounds like you're fucking the guy.


----------



## madden player (Sep 19, 2004)

Flex said:
			
		

> ...Steve Reeves isn't shit.
> 
> "find you a fucking statement to back up my bullshit?"
> i hope you ain't talking to me like that, little man. Again, i DON'T GIVE A FUCK if he juiced or not. I was simply disproving your dumbass logic that b/c he wrote for that mag he never juice...


Steve Reeves isn't shit???...You are one dumb motherfucker.  Take away all the drugs today's bodybuilders use to bloat and transform their physiques and they could not stand next to Steve Reeves in his prime!!!  You don't know shit about bodybuilding history and neither does your boyfriend tenyearsgone.

Ohh yeah, I was talking to you!!..whatcha ya gonna do about it??...LOL..internet thug??  Dumbass logic??...Reeves could not of used steroids to compete because they did not exist.  

Reeves has been a idol of mine for close to a decade and it is really easy for some ignorant red neck to get on here after he is dead and gone and say he used steroids...."Steve Reeves isn't shit"...you are one sorry dumbass motherfucker now aren't you??


----------



## Arnold (Sep 19, 2004)

I believe that Steve Reeves did not use steroids, he was not very big.


----------



## chris mason (Sep 19, 2004)

If the criteria is winning record then the award goes to none other than John Carl Grimek!  The man NEVER lost a contest.  In fact he is the primary reason that the AAU decided that someone could not win the Mr. America more than once (back when it was THE contest).

John was an imcomparable bodybuilder in that he not only had an incredible drug-free physique, he was also a champion Olympic lifter.  His strength was amazing!  He was Ronnie Coleman before Coleman's parents ever met!


----------



## tenxyearsxgone (Sep 19, 2004)

a lot or immature people on this board....people experimented with steroids even as far back as reeves's day, he wasn't a juice monkey they weren't injecting steroids then...pills...anyway he was small, even for natural standards, you can find natural guys bigger then him in every gym in the world.

arnold all the way baby


----------



## Flex (Sep 19, 2004)

madden player said:
			
		

> Steve Reeves isn't shit???...You are one dumb motherfucker.  Take away all the drugs today's bodybuilders use to bloat and transform their physiques and they could not stand next to Steve Reeves in his prime!!!  You don't know shit about bodybuilding history and neither does your boyfriend tenyearsgone.
> 
> Ohh yeah, I was talking to you!!..whatcha ya gonna do about it??...LOL..internet thug??  Dumbass logic??...Reeves could not of used steroids to compete because they did not exist.
> 
> Reeves has been a idol of mine for close to a decade and it is really easy for some ignorant red neck to get on here after he is dead and gone and say he used steroids...."Steve Reeves isn't shit"...you are one sorry dumbass motherfucker now aren't you??



Well, first of all, you're from Canada, so now everything is coming together  

Secondly, you still don't understand my point. You said b/c he wrote for a natty mag. he couldn't have used steroids. Good logic, let me tell ya. 

Take away all the drugs today of BB's and they couldn't stand next to Reeves?????????? Are you even trying to be serious. Take a look at the guys who win the natural competitions nowadays and they SHIT on your boy. Damn, there's 5 guys off the top of my head AT MY GYM ALONE that are natural and have a better physique.

My bf tenyearsgone? i don't even know the guy. i was just agreeing with his disagreement towards you.
Your petty insults only prove that you're ignorant and immature. But ouch, when you swear, it hurts me.


----------



## Flex (Sep 19, 2004)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> I believe that Steve Reeves did not use steroids, he was not very big.



Thanks Mr. D. Hey Madden, take a look at Rob's pics. He's all natural, and WAY past Steve Reeves in overall physique.

Because its ^ idol, that must be why he gets all defensive.


----------



## madden player (Sep 19, 2004)

Flex said:
			
		

> Well, first of all, you're from Canada, so now everything is coming together
> 
> Secondly, you still don't understand my point. You said b/c he wrote for a natty mag. he couldn't have used steroids. Good logic, let me tell ya...


The Canadian thing I don't get??... 

My point was never that if someone wrote for a natural mag, it most mean that they are natural.  My point was that if you had ever read any of 
Steve Reeves bodybuilding articles you would know that he HATED steroids and what they were doing to a sport that he was one of the greatest ever.

If you were such an expert on bodybuilding history you would know that steroids were not part of the bodybuilding sub-culture when Steve Reeves was a competitive bodybuilder (Mr. America 1947??)...

As far as people being bigger than Steve Reeves, I can't argue there, but not too many if anyone else ever put together such a complete flawless physique.  Anyway you look at him he was perfect...symmetry and proportions.

I don't want to take anything away from Mr. DiMaggio, I think he is in awesome shape, but you used him as an example and I don't think he would agree with you (I don't agree) about him being WAY past Revees in overall shape..(Reeves was not on M1-t either..do you think M1-t is a supplement of steroid??).

As far as being defensive, I don't like it when someone says that Revees did steroids because Arnold said so...all I want is for that person to back there statement up..simple huh??


----------



## Flex (Sep 19, 2004)

madden player said:
			
		

> The Canadian thing I don't get??...
> 
> My point was never that if someone wrote for a natural mag, it most mean that they are natural.  My point was that if you had ever read any of
> Steve Reeves bodybuilding articles you would know that he HATED steroids and what they were doing to a sport that he was one of the greatest ever.
> ...



OH MY GOD. let me capitalize so perhaps you can understand once and for all...

For the last time, I NEVER SAID HE DID STEROIDS. I DON"T CARE WHETHER HE TOOK STEROIDS OR NOT!

What i disagree with: 

1. you said (IN YOUR ORIGINAL POST) "b/c he wrote for a natty mag., he didn't do steroids." I DISAGREED WITH THAT. 
Ronnie Coleman says he doesn't take steroids. Do you believe him too? That's all i was saying. Then you start cussing and getting all defensive.

2. "Flawless physique"? 
That's an ideosynchrasy.

3. "Take away all the drugs today's bodybuilders use to bloat and transform their physiques and they could not stand next to Steve Reeves in his prime!!!" 
You said if you take all the drugs away they couldn't touch Reeves. I was using Robert as ONE example. He's got a great natural physique, and he's ONE BB in this world. You still think NO ONE else in the world can touch him....when i showed you the first person to pop into my head?

4. FOR THE LAST TIME: I NEVER SAID HE TOOK STEROIDS. 

p.s. The Canadian thing was nothin' personal. My buddies always make fun of you guys for being dumb (i'm party french myself)


----------



## Flex (Sep 19, 2004)

and flawless physique?????????

Come on bro. First of all, there's no such thing. The best physique ever IMO is Flex Wheeler of '98. Check out some pics. Not only are his proportions great, he is ripped to shreds, his muscle bellies are round and full, he has a tiny, ripped waist, and he is HUGE. The reason he lost is due to two words, "Ronnie Coleman". Put Flex and Reeves next to eachother and its not even a comparison.

"Perfect physique" That just tells me your extent of BB knowledge. Sure he was proportionate, but damn, BB's need SOME size, too.


----------



## Arnold (Sep 19, 2004)

Flex said:
			
		

> Thanks Mr. D. Hey Madden, take a look at Rob's pics. He's all natural, and WAY past Steve Reeves in overall physique.



wow, thanks! 

Steve Reeves had a great physique no doubt about it.


----------



## Flex (Sep 19, 2004)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> wow, thanks!
> 
> Steve Reeves had a great physique no doubt about it.



welcome  

perhaps you, Mr. D, understand where i'm getting at.....

This guy is hellbent on Steve Reeves, ok fine. 

But He said: cuz he wrote in a natty mag, he didnt take steroids. 
                 he would blow away natty bb's of today (which i used you)


----------



## gr81 (Sep 19, 2004)

you can say that relative to other lifters of the time Reeves was the best, and that he was a pioneer of the sport, all of that may be true and he deserves our respect for that no question. But to say he was the "best BB" whatever that means, is an unfounded statement. Thats like saying that George Mikan was the best center ever, when there are twenty guys in teh NBA now that are better athletes than him. Doesn't take away from what he did at the time, but we as humans/athletes have evolved and to compare someone like Reeves to RC or anyone in the modern are is not a fair comparison at all, sorry madden.

PS, if you ever believe what a BB says baout drug use in a magazine you are niave.


----------



## madden player (Sep 19, 2004)

gr81 said:
			
		

> ...PS, if you ever believe what a BB says baout drug use in a magazine you are niave.


 
PS...For you and Flex I never said in any of my posts concerning this issue that Revees said he was natural because he wrote for a natural mag, what I was stating was he doesn't approve of the use of steroids and what they have done to the sport.  Mike Mentzer wrote for the same natural mag along with many other drug using bodybuilders and am I trying to convince anyone that they were natural??

I don't care what a bodybuilder says about drug use in a mag...who is going to go on the record and give up all the dirty little details of their illegal habits??

I responded to a bullshit statement that Arnold admited to Revees's steroid use.  That is total and absolute bullshit.  I know that no one cares if he used drugs or not but just to let you know, steroids as a performance enhancer were not even know about when Revees dominated bodybuilding in the late 40's.


----------



## madden player (Sep 19, 2004)

Flex said:
			
		

> ...But He said: cuz he wrote in a natty mag, he didnt take steroids.
> he would blow away natty bb's of today (which i used you)


Seriously, can you read??..Refer back to the original post regarding this matter and you will read that I said that: 1. Revees wrote for a natural mag
2. He does not approve of the use of steroids...UNDERSTAND???

As far as "blowing away" natural bodybuilders of today, he would easily compete with the biggest naturals of today.  Revees was a competitive bodybuilder remember (Mr. America , Mr. World, Mr Universe) and like all of the great bodybuilders he presented the judges with what they were looking for on the day of the contest.  If the judges wanted more size in the late 40's he most surely would have shown up bigger.  

Like Schwarzenegger, Revees wanted to be a movie star, but to be considered not too "Freaky" by the movie folks of his day he had to cut his bodybuilding career short and limit his muscular size...don't let pics of Revees from his movie days fool you, look up some of his competition photos.  He had no rivals during his short reign at the top of the bodybuilding world.


----------



## gr81 (Sep 19, 2004)

> I know that no one cares if he used drugs or not but just to let you know, steroids as a performance enhancer were not even know about when Revees dominated bodybuilding in the late 40's.



acutally D-bol has been around since that time more or less, but whether he juiced or not is trivial and like you said no one cares. Steroids are not performance enhancers either, they are aesthetic enhancers. The term performance enhancing drug is a term that the anti-doping agendies have been shoving down the publics throat in order to sway opinion in a negative aspect.

look madden, i am nto here to argu or beef with you bro, I respect your opinion and I validated it with my last post, saying you had merit. you really need to calm down thou and stop insulting people. there is NO right or wrong in a thread like this, who you like is who you like and lets respect other peoples views. Non one is saying he wasn't great for his time, so why are you trippin about it. Flex knows a great deal about this game and its history, he is a student of the sport to the fullest so theres no need to insult his intelligence. you would get more respect if you articulated your opinion without resorting to name calling and screaming right away dude, just a tip. peace


----------



## madden player (Sep 19, 2004)

gr81 said:
			
		

> acutally D-bol has been around since that time more or less...


Dianabol (DBOL) was developed by John Ziegler and released by the pharm company Ciba in 1956 so that fact that Revees may or may not have used steroids during his bodybuilding career is more than just trivial, it is almost next to impossible.

As far as insults are concerned, I find lies to be insulting.  I find it insulting that someone questions my intelligence by saying some dumb over used saying on this site "you must be really stupid to believe everything you read in muscle mags"...Really you don't say, I would have never thought that everything I read was gospel truth..guess I am just another dumb Canadian.

On the matter of respect, I could care less what anyone on here thinks..you are not my friends and family so it matters little or nothing to me.  The helpfull considerate people on here know who they are and I respect them very much for all the time they spend answering silly repetitive questions that noobs continue to ask.


----------



## gr81 (Sep 19, 2004)

well actually smart ass, if you really wana get into the history of it, we can.. Steroids were FIRST developed by the Germans in the 1930's and experimented with during that time and throughout WW2 on solciers and prisoners. Your right, Zeigler didn't come around until the mid 50's, but Russian and European athletes were using the shit before his labs started producing Methandrostenolone. I am not saying he used, b/c I bet that he didn't, but thats neither here nor there. Your acting like a little bitch, I tried to be civil and calm with you, but apparently anyone who dares to question what you say is an idiot and therefore deserves the verbal lashing. no one is lying to you, this thread is based on opinion and for you to tell someone else their opinion is wrong is as stupid as it is meaningless. have a nice day


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Sep 19, 2004)

Another dumb Canadian.

No, I'm just kidding.  But I remember hearing and reading several times that Reeves used steroids, though you are right, Ziegler developed dianabol in the 50s.

The problem with your argument is that Dianabol was not the first roid, just the first popular one.  IMO.


----------



## madden player (Sep 20, 2004)

I think scientists were aware of the role testosterone played in the human body almost 100 yrs ago.  I think I read somewhere of a doctor extracting testosterone from dog testis??...

Yes Prof Gr81 you are semi correct on the Germans and them being the first to use steroids.  From what I have read they were developed by German researchers at the tail end of WW2 to combat the wasting away of Jewish concentration camp survivors.

The earliest I can trace back the use of AAS drugs in sport is the early 50's and like you said it was isolated to some european and russian athletes.  The use of steroids did not become popular with athletes until Ziegler came back from Russia with stories of this incredible substance Russian athletes attribute their phenomenal success to.

I wish GR81 you would back your statement up..."..this thread is based on opinion and for you to tell someone else their opinion is wrong is as stupid as it is meaninless.."??
WTF.. Where did I tell someone their opinion is wrong??..Someone said "Arnold said Revees use steroids" I hope you don't think that was opinion do you??..That was bullshit, and I wanted that person to elaborate!!!

Duncan the arguement was never over DBOL being the first steroid used, I think I mentioned DBOL in one of my earlier posts...I think I said something sarcastic like Revees and LeLanne were eating handfulls of DBOL back in the 40's to the comment that Revees used drugs because Arnold said so.  According to some, I misunderstood that statement as fact, I guess it was supposed to be opinion??

To sum it all up, I guess around here you can say that the Pope uses steroids because Arnold said so..and whatever you do don't question lies and bullshit or you will be called out as someone who says others opinion is wrong.


----------



## Flex (Sep 20, 2004)

madden player said:
			
		

> Seriously, can you read??..Refer back to the original post regarding this matter and you will read that I said that: 1. Revees wrote for a natural mag
> 2. He does not approve of the use of steroids...UNDERSTAND???



Let's try this once and for all.

You're telling me b/c...: 
1. Revees wrote for a natural mag
2. He "does not approve" of the use of steroids
...he didn't take steroids?

again, i'm NOT SAYING HE DID. But you wanna talk about speculative opinion? There's no credibility in your statement whatsoever. Arnold and Ronnie also write for natty mags. They also both "don't approve" of steroids. Does that mean they never took them? 

YOU ARE ARGUEING THE SAME POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just because people say something (ie Arnold>Reeves took steroids.......or.......Madden>Reeves didn't take steroids) DOESNT MEAN IT HAPPENED.

Arnold said he did b/c whatever. You said he didn't b/c he wrote in mags and "didnt" approve.


----------



## madden player (Sep 20, 2004)

gr81 said:
			
		

> ...Steroids are not performance enhancers either, they are aesthetic enhancers...


Well I have seen a hella lot of ugly athletes with not very aesthetically pleasing bodies..damn marathon runners and ping pong players use steroids for the performance enhancing properties, I doubt very much they are risking their health and wellness for the aesthetic benifits.

Now bodybuilding on the other hand differs from most or all other sports and the arguement could be made that steroids are use primarily for the aesthetic enhancing benifits.


----------



## Flex (Sep 20, 2004)

madden player said:
			
		

> As far as "blowing away" natural bodybuilders of today, he would easily compete with the biggest naturals of today.



EASILY compete today? Once again, DEFINITELY NOT. there's guys all over my one gym in one small part of the US that are as big or bigger than Reeves. 

I know he's your "hero", but come on, man. Arnold is my absolute favorite, but at least I'm realistic. If he were to compete today with the physique he had back then, he'd look tiny.


----------



## Flex (Sep 20, 2004)

madden player said:
			
		

> Well I have seen a hella lot of ugly athletes with not very aesthetically pleasing bodies..damn marathon runners and ping pong players use steroids for the performance enhancing properties, I doubt very much they are risking their health and wellness for the aesthetic benifits.
> 
> Now bodybuilding on the other hand differs from most or all other sports and the arguement could be made that steroids are use primarily for the aesthetic enhancing benifits.



What the Gr81 meant about aes. enhancing vs. perf. enhancing is b/c thats exactly what they are. 

Steroids won't make Mark McGwire hit more home runs. They WILL make him stronger, so if he can get a hold of a ball, it MAY go farther. 

Steroids won't make a sprinter run faster. They WILL make them stronger, so possibly they can have more muscle/less fat, thus improving there times.


----------



## madden player (Sep 20, 2004)

Flex said:
			
		

> Let's try this once and for all.
> 
> You're telling me b/c...:
> 1. Revees wrote for a natural mag
> ...


I think you are missing the point..Mentzer, Haney, too many top well known drug abusers wrote for the same mag at the same time as Revees.  They all were paid to write anti-drug articles, and I wouldn't try and argue and convince someone that Mentzer and Haney were steroid free.  The fact is that Revees came before drugs played an important part of bodybuilding.

Revees was the only writer for the all natural muscular development mag that reached the top of the bodybuilding world drug free..he was very proud of the fact that he never used steroids and he made it very clear in his writings his thoughts on steroid users, unlike the other bodybuilder/writers at the mag they were just talking out of their ass and recieving a paycheck (the proof of this is that many of the anti-drug bodybuilders who wrote for the all natural mag turned ship when the mag went the otherway and they started praising and almost promoting drug use)...

My point about Revees was that if you read any of his articles that he wrote for all natural muscular development you would know that he HATED what was happening to the sport at the professional level... professional bodybuilders in his day were the supreme symbol of health/strength/fitness.

He had no regrets about past drug use because there was no past drug use.  I am sorry that I made you think that I think that if someone writes for a natural mag that they must of been natural for life...Wouldn't it be speculative opinion on your part to think that I think they were all natural because they wrote for a natural mag??

...Again my point about the Revees writings were that he hated steroids and their users.  No other writer in the mag had the balls to call out pro bodybuilders the way he did..he actually had an open challenge for any pro bodybuilder to come to his ranch and try and keep up to him and as far as I know no one took the challenge.

NO WHERE DID I SAY THAT HE WAS NATURAL BECAUSE HE WROTE FOR A NATURAL MAG..I SAID FROM HIS WRITINGS THAT HE DISLIKED STEROIDS...I said he was natural because he said he was natural for life, not one of these bodybuilders that just didn't know how these then legal substances were going to effect their health 20-30 yrs later and then they say "Oh I don't approve of their use now...   ...I wish I knew then that they were going to cause kidney failure/heart disease..ect"

I am vary aware of Revees being one of Arnolds idols but Revees never used steroids and Arnold never admited to Revees using steroids...it was that bullshit comment that got my goat.


----------



## Arnold (Sep 20, 2004)

I guess I am failing to see why it's such a big deal if a bodybuilder used/uses steroids or not? 

*Steroids do no make a champion; hard work, discipline, dedication and genetics do.*


----------



## madden player (Sep 20, 2004)

Flex said:
			
		

> EASILY compete today? Once again, DEFINITELY NOT. there's guys all over my one gym in one small part of the US that are as big or bigger than Reeves.
> 
> I know he's your "hero", but come on, man. Arnold is my absolute favorite, but at least I'm realistic. If he were to compete today with the physique he had back then, he'd look tiny.


I believe that the best ever would still be the best ever no matter when in history they competed.  Arnold and Revees had no rivals in there prime.  Sure they would look tiny compared to today's bodybuilders with their physiques from the past but I believe with the different judging standards of today and all the advancements in training/nutrition/supplementation that they would show up on stage well suited and ready to compete with today's pros.  They would not show up with a body that was the ideal for 1950 they would most definately step up because they were champions mind and body.


----------



## madden player (Sep 20, 2004)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> I guess I am failing to see why it's such a big deal if a bodybuilder used/uses steroids or not?
> 
> *Steroids do no make a champion; hard work, discipline, dedication and genetics do.*


It is not a big deal.  I happen to think that alcohol/tobacco and a million other things are more of a health concern then steroids.

I do think it is a big deal when someone puts words into others mouth..all I wanted was someone to back the statement up the Arnold said Revees used drugs.

Steroids do not make champs.  All the stuff you mentioned above makes a champ, obviously all great bodybuilders had all the right stuff and I think that it was their will and dedication that got them where they were...so I believe if all the greats could be cloned, set in a modern enviroment with all things being equal you would have one hell of a comp.


----------



## Flex (Sep 20, 2004)

madden player said:
			
		

> with the different judging standards of today and all the advancements in training/nutrition/supplementation that they would show up on stage well suited and ready to compete with today's pros.
> 
> They would not show up with a body that was the ideal for 1950 they would most definately step up because they were champions mind and body.



with the different standards of today? you kwno what today's judges want? MASS

I'm not talking what kind of body they COULD have. i was talking bout what they DID have. I've stated in a previous post that IMO Arnold with today's drugs/supps/diets/knowledge could compete with today's guys. all else constant, with today's steroids Arnold could've been HUGE. 

Besides, how could Reeves drastically improve his physique? you're hellbent that he never juiced. so he could eat all the food in the world and not even come close to today's guys.....


----------



## madden player (Sep 20, 2004)

Flex said:
			
		

> ...I've stated in a previous post that IMO Arnold with today's drugs/supps/diets/knowledge could compete with today's guys. all else constant, with today's steroids Arnold could've been HUGE...
> 
> Besides, how could Reeves drastically improve his physique?...


Well first off lets drop drugs from the equation..It is kind of a noob assumption to thing that drugs make an athlete what he/she is.  Would Arnold really look like Arnold with GH belly??..definately not.  If you are such an Arnold fan you would know that he doesn't care too much for the bloated distended abs of todays pro bodybuilders.

To think that one gets successful in the ranks of bodybuilding or any sport with drugs (they certainly help..I can't argue that) doesn't give credit to the intense desire that ALL champions through history possesed.  Their desire to be the best can not be matched and it doesn't come from an injection. 

Champions thrive on competition, and Reeves was no exception.  Reeves could have easily taken his physique another decade ahead of his time but a career in the movies was far more profitable than bodybuilding.  You ask how Reeves could drastically improve his physique to compete with today's bodybuilders and the answer is simple.  Competition!!

The same thing is true for Arnold and all the greats (I feel silly calling them warriors when a couple of real legitimate young men/women warriors are dying each day in the desert, but in a way that is what they are) they don't fear or run from a challenge they step up.  If Reeves or Arnold knew what the competition had in store for them(2004), I think they would put a competitive package on stage or die trying..don't under estimate the power and motivation behind close competition.


----------



## madden player (Sep 20, 2004)

Flex said:
			
		

> What the Gr81 meant about aes. enhancing vs. perf. enhancing is b/c thats exactly what they are...


Is this fact or opinion??...You do know that steroids are mood altering drugs??..Most sports that I can think about require as much mental toughness/readiness as physical prowess.  To say that steroids are only an aesthetic enhancer is like "putting the cart in front of the horse" ...it is like you are saying that steroids don't effect productive aggression and reaction times.  I have never used steroids but even I know that they are a powerful performance enhancer (both mental and physical)...besides didn't you start some thread "A Juicers tale"??..didn't you say that you felt like a million bucks on cycle??...I have read an article about steroids and women and one women said that she could feel the testosterone effecting her aggression and sex drive within hours, I am sure it was not from new found confidence from a leaner stronger body, because a couple hours is not enough time for any great changes in body composition but the test had enough time to reach androgen receptors in the brain and effect mood.


----------



## gr81 (Sep 20, 2004)

> You do know that steroids are mood altering drugs??..Most sports that I can think about require as much mental toughness/readiness as physical prowess. To say that steroids are only an aesthetic enhancer is like "putting the cart in front of the horse" ...it is like you are saying that steroids don't effect productive aggression and reaction times. I have never used steroids but even I know that they are a powerful performance enhancer (both mental and physical)...



This is nonsense, and I especially love how its coming from the mouth of someone who has never used steroids. How can you possibly comment. Steroids do NOT make you metally tougher, and its ridiculous to imply otherwise. Some people may become more aggressive, some may not. alot of it has to do with the fact that you are mentally aproaching things differently b/c of the fact that you are on. The fact is that if you already have an aggressive disposition to begin with the AAS may feed on that, but it is not an absolute by any means.. can you please explain to me how free bound testosterone chemically makes you mentally "tougher" as you put it


----------



## madden player (Sep 20, 2004)

gr81 said:
			
		

> ...can you please explain to me how free bound testosterone chemically makes you mentally "tougher" as you put it


Free bound testosterone??..WTF..I am not an endrocrinologist but if test was bound how could it be free??...and I never said anything about "free bound testosterone" I said testosterone reaches androgen receptors in the brain ..again I am no endrocrinologist but there is androgen receptors in the brain.  Do you honestly think that steroids are not a mood altering drug??..Unless every textbook I ever read was wrong you are right.

It is a fact that hormones effect mood..Did you ever here of "roid rage"..I know the media overblows the whole issue of "roid rage" but it does exist..If you have a girlfriend/wife you may have heard of a little thing called PMS.  It is a fact that if you give a female songbird testosterone it will start singing the male bird call (that should be reason enough to deter any female from ever adding androgens to there system..the endrocrine system is in a delicate balance and you really shouldn't be messing with it)...what hormone do you think is involved with aggressive mating behavior in the wild??..If you said Testosterone you are correct (you can give yourself a cookie for getting this far)..well it is not just Testosterone it self sometimes that causes the aggressive behavior in animals but it is always an androgen..For example high levels of the hormone androstenedione are responsible for making Hyena's ultra aggressive and the females actually have a false penis because of the high andro.

There are a million examples from nature that I can give you supporting the fact that steroids effect mood/aggression.  In the 1976 olympics in Montreal (that would be the Montreal in Canada..give yourself another cookie if you know your geography) the east german team doped their athletes and as a final blast of hormones to enhance physical/mental readiness the used androstenedione in the form of a nasal spray, it worked well if you could handle the headaches that some of the athletes claimed to be a side effect.

Honestly I could go on for days but I am getting tired of this thread and I think you have no clue, because if you think hormones, especially androgens don't make you more aggressive/alter your mood (there is a small % of the population that can not handle steroids no matter how mild. It changes there behavior so much that friends family are dumbfounded..this is also true with other drugs like alcohol/cocaine..ect. a small % cannot handle the drugs period)..I even think I mentioned in a previous post in this thread that it also increases productive aggression (this would be an increase in drive/motivation)..that is a fact not an opinion.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Sep 20, 2004)

There are a lot of conflicting studies on roid rage.  To present anything in this regard as fact and not opinion might be a be considered distorting a point to proove your own.  Unfortunately nothing is really concrete.



> J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1996 Oct;81(10):3754-8.
> 
> The effects of supraphysiological doses of testosterone on angry behavior in healthy eugonadal men--a clinical research center study.
> 
> ...


----------



## madden player (Sep 20, 2004)

I agree more research has to be done, but from a biological point of view the Supraphysiological doses of testosterone have to effect the body/endrocrine system/mood...and like I mentioned and your post mentioned test is not the only androgen that they use.."staking" different androgens will probably have different effects on different individuals.


----------



## Flex (Sep 20, 2004)

madden player said:
			
		

> Do you honestly think that steroids are not a mood altering drug??..Unless every textbook I ever read was wrong you are right.
> 
> It is a fact that hormones effect mood..Did you ever here of "roid rage"..I know the media overblows the whole issue of "roid rage" but it does exist..If you have a girlfriend/wife you may have heard of a little thing called PMS.  It is a fact that if you give a female songbird testosterone it will start singing the male bird call (that should be reason enough to deter any female from ever adding androgens to there system..the endrocrine system is in a delicate balance and you really shouldn't be messing with it)...what hormone do you think is involved with aggressive mating behavior in the wild??..If you said Testosterone you are correct (you can give yourself a cookie for getting this far)..well it is not just Testosterone it self sometimes that causes the aggressive behavior in animals but it is always an androgen..For example high levels of the hormone androstenedione are responsible for making Hyena's ultra aggressive and the females actually have a false penis because of the high andro.
> 
> Honestly I could go on for days but I am getting tired of this thread and I think you have no clue, because if you think hormones, especially androgens don't make you more aggressive/alter your mood (there is a small % of the population that can not handle steroids no matter how mild. It changes there behavior so much that friends family are dumbfounded..this is also true with other drugs like alcohol/cocaine..ect. a small % cannot handle the drugs period)..I even think I mentioned in a previous post in this thread that it also increases productive aggression (this would be an increase in drive/motivation)..that is a fact not an opinion.



bro, don't talk about something you know NOTHING about.

First of all, your so called "mood altering" is b.s. You knwo why i said you feel like a million bucks? Because you wake up and your muscles are pumped. After you train, they swell beyond belief and you feel/look huge. THATS WHY it affects your mood, merely b/c of physical effects.

and your statement on "roid rage" cements your knowledge of steroids. Roid rage is bullshit. Here's what roid rage is: If you're a dick, and you take steroids, you will be a dick when on. If you're not, you won't be. its that simple. type in the search engine a few keywords: car accident, drunk driver, flex etc. i posted a thread a while back when a drunk hit my car while i was "on". You know how i reacted? the SAME way i would've had i not been "on". Sure i was fired up and wanted to kill this kid. But you knwo what my mind said? My mind told me that i would fuckin' kill this kid, esp. cuz i'm "on", therefore i didn't end up doing anything. Had i not been "on", i think i would've went ahead and got arrested for assault. There's your "roid rage".

once again, don't talk about shit you don't know about, where you got your b.s. info outta some book.....


----------



## madden player (Sep 20, 2004)

I don't think you little car wreck qualifies for any scientific "roid rage" study...If you read my post I said the media overblows the "roid rage".  You have your beliefs, and I have mine.  I look at it from a biological point of view and you rely on first hand knowledge.  Just because I never used or will use steroids doesn't mean I am a complete moron on the subject...

I could keep this arguement going in circles for ever..For me there is enough proof in nature and enough people saying that they become more irratible and in some cases they report certain steroids produce different effects such as a feel of well being or boxer/fighters saying certain drugs really make them more aggressive and less fearful..

I guess natural bodybuilders and steroid bodybuilders will always disagree on the subject of steroids..go figure..I was tempted by steroids just like anyother bodybuilder but after much research it just didn't seem worth.

I know there is others at this site that feel the same as I do..natural bodybuilders are a stubborn persistent bunch, we train sometimes for months/years for what some of the "using" guys can do in weeks.

Maybe there is enough people here at this site to have a natural forum??, then we would never have to get on the topic of steroids and their possible harmfull effects...hardcore natural bodybuilders have some pretty strong beliefs when it comes to steroids, whether or not you or I am right or wrong is meaninless to me because nothing and I mean nothing can change my mind...and I am betting the same holds true for you.


----------



## gr81 (Sep 20, 2004)

> Free bound testosterone??..WTF..I am not an endrocrinologist but if test was bound how could it be free??...and I never said anything about "free bound testosterone" I said testosterone reaches androgen receptors in the brain ..again I am no endrocrinologist but there is androgen receptors in the brain. Do you honestly think that steroids are not a mood altering drug??..Unless every textbook I ever read was wrong you are right.



 I am not denying that some people may experience some elevated aggressiveness, although i happen to think its more of a placebo effect, and certainly not everyone does experience this. In fact a higher test level brings about feelings of well being and confidence in people. You said that it will increase a person mental toughness, and that is not the case at all, and that statement is unfounded and based on nothing.. you say your not and endocrinologist, neither am I, but I do my research regarding the subject and a, well educated on it. let me say that if you don't even know the relationship of free bound test to teis conversation than you have no place in commenting on this all togather. how do you think the molecules reach the AR receptors in the first place. So we have established that you are not familiar with endocrinology even at an introductory level AND you have never taken the shit, so you can't speak from experience, so why are you arguing with me in the first place. you are right, we are just going back and forth, and I am not really sure what we are arguing over in the first place. you have some valid points, but some thingd you say are unfounded.. oh well I am finished arguing with you


----------



## madden player (Sep 20, 2004)

gr81 said:
			
		

> I am not denying that some people may experience some elevated aggressiveness, although i happen to think its more of a placebo effect, and certainly not everyone does experience this. In fact a higher test level brings about feelings of well being and confidence in people...


I have done my research on gear also.  As a natural bodybuilder I was very interested why gear helps users gain strength faster than a natural.  I have a question to ask you because I don't know anything.  What is 'free bound' test??..I have heard of 'free' test and 'unbound' test'..I am not saying it doesn't exist but I have never heard of it..You aparently know more than me and I asked you twice now what is 'free bound' test??

"Higher test levels brings about feelings of well being and confidence in people"...Hmmm...Isn't that what I have been saying all along??


----------



## gr81 (Sep 20, 2004)

> I have heard of 'free' test and 'unbound' test'..I am not saying it doesn't exist but I have never heard of it..You aparently know more than me and I asked you twice now what is 'free bound' test??



same difference, different wording basically. testosterone molecules in the blood stream that attach to AR receptors. when exogenously recieved, the level of free bound test in your blood stream increases..



> "Higher test levels brings about feelings of well being and confidence in people"...Hmmm...Isn't that what I have been saying all along??



I wasn't debating that, I was challenging the statement you made about anabolics increasing your mental toughness.. oh well its all good man


----------



## madden player (Sep 20, 2004)

gr81 said:
			
		

> ..oh well its all good man


Excellent..I couldn't say it better myself.

I still don't agree with the comment about Arnold/Revees and drug use..I don't think anyone agrees with it.  Here is a real quote from Arnold regarding Reeves: "Steve Reeves is a great man and has contributed much to the sport of bodybuilding, Steve was a great inspiration to me". 

"After seeing _Goliath and the Barbarians,_ I decided to start bodybuilding and look like Steve".   Lou Ferrigno

" Sly do you want to be a bum or be like Steve Reeves".   Sylvester Stallone

It was fun and good but the guy who started it with the unfounded comment should have been apart of the arguement..

"Steve Reeves ain't shit" is something I probably provoked but it is horseshit and anyone who knows bodybuilding would say that was a crazy statement.  His "Perfection in the clouds" pose can not be matched by any bodybuilder past or present. I wish I could find a decent quality pic but I am sure most are aware of his "money" pose and it truely was perfect.


----------



## gr81 (Sep 20, 2004)

its always important to pay respect to the ones who paved the way and were bold enough to do something no one has done before, no question..
like Pac said, "what can I say, I wouldn't be here today if the old school didn't pave the way".. ha 
yo how do you like that Madden '05? pretty sweet if I don't say so myself!


----------



## madden player (Sep 21, 2004)

gr81 said:
			
		

> ...yo how do you like that Madden '05? pretty sweet if I don't say so myself!


It is out of this world..The "quicksand" glitch has ruined online play 1 month after the games release(EA turned fatigue off to counter the glitch..but that totally killed the realism of the game..this yr is more Arcade than sim) but I can handle that..Avoid online play unless you want to get a cheesey beat down by a 10 yr.
IMO 04 is still the best..fatigue is still on in ranked games online and "jetpacking" with your WR is awesome.

Now on a note relating to the thread..does anyone have a high quality pic of Steve Revees's "perfection in the clouds" pose??


----------



## madden player (Sep 21, 2004)

madden player said:
			
		

> 1. Steve Reeves
> 2. Arnold Schwarzenegger
> 3. Dorian Yates


I don't know how I could of forgotten about Bev Francis..So far ahead of her time..she was fucking incredible.  She opened up doors for sooo many female bodybuilders.


----------



## Spitfire (Sep 21, 2004)

Sorry a little of subject, butI want a dvd of pumping iron, should I just get it from amazon or something


----------



## Arnold (Sep 21, 2004)

madden player said:
			
		

> 1. Steve Reeves
> 2. Arnold Schwarzenegger
> 3. Dorian Yates



not sure why you would exclude Lee Haney from that list?


----------



## madden player (Sep 21, 2004)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> not sure why you would exclude Lee Haney from that list?


No particular reason..It was hard enough picking only 3 male bodybuilders + Bev Francis..I love bodybuilding history and Haney was difinately one of the greats (maybe the greatest)...

If I were to post my top ten list of fav bodybuilders Haney makes the list for sure..probably would make the top 5..I just had to draw the line somewhere.


----------



## madden player (Sep 21, 2004)

Spitfire said:
			
		

> Sorry a little of subject, butI want a dvd of pumping iron, should I just get it from amazon or something


I picked up my DVD copy at Walmart.


----------



## Spitfire (Sep 21, 2004)

Oh true, I checked Target, blockbuster doesnt carry it.
Thanks


----------



## Velvet (Sep 21, 2004)

Chainsaw said:
			
		

> Arnold rules.  I just can't believe I still haven't seen "Pumping Iron" yet. . .sheesh.



Arnold is THE one, the Oak..

Get the 25th anniversary DVD, there's  a lot of cool extras on it, like interviews with arnold a few years ago, gives you some good insight into the creation of the movie...Lou rocked in the movie too!


----------



## solid10 (Sep 22, 2004)

Arnold and Steve Reeves.


----------



## Velvet (Sep 23, 2004)

solid10 said:
			
		

> Arnold and Steve Reeves.



Steve Reeves


----------



## MaxMirkin (Sep 23, 2004)

Nichole Bass - this guy is just huge!


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Oct 3, 2004)

Sergio Olivia and Mike Mentzer


----------



## solid10 (Oct 3, 2004)

Hands down the best without a doubt......drum rolls.....
*Vieope. *


----------



## sweatshopchamp (Oct 7, 2004)

Ronnie?


----------



## RexStunnahH (Oct 20, 2004)

shooter said:
			
		

> I voted for Arnold because I think has done the most for the sport.




I had to agree,Arnold has nd still is doing alot for the sport,it has taken him very far in life.My second would hve to be Larry scott though....from the choices you gave us.


----------



## J.K. (Jan 1, 2005)

The pre-Arnold -  Dave Draper

     I wonder if that's showing my age..    lol

 Anyway - my reason for picking Dave is that his pic on the back of a comic book when I was young was the first time I'd ever seen a physique like that. It kinda stuck in my mind.

 But also, it's the story of his life. From what I know he had a much bigger battle going on than the battle of the bludge (i.e. his addiction) - but nevertheless he killed it and came out on top...







     Not bad for an 'old guy' -


----------



## musclepump (Jan 2, 2005)

I like Arnold, Dave Draper, Frank Zane and Jay Cutler--all for different reasons. Arnold for being the classic bodybuilding pump, Dave Draper for his style, Frank Zane for winning and not trying to be an abnormally large freak, and Jay for his ability to keep changing the package he brings to the stage.


----------



## HotMom23 (Jan 4, 2005)

Arnold has my vote!


----------



## bio-chem (Feb 7, 2005)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> I put Jay Cutler over Ronnie Coleman.


just curious, using what criteria do you like jay over ronnie? is it overall "look"?


----------



## njc (Feb 11, 2005)

I think Jay looks generally better than Ronnie as well.

Why aint I listed as a poll selection?


----------



## WantItBad (Feb 28, 2005)

are we goin greatest or fave......i cant tell ronnie coleman is one of the best i think but my fave is Jonnie Jackson


----------



## Leatherface (Mar 18, 2005)

I gotta go with Zane.  His symmetry was awesome.  Arnold's upper body wasn't human.  You could serve tea on his upper pecs.

I don't know, the guys of today all look the same to me.  They're all gigantic cartoon characters.  Ronnie Coleman looks as though he's some sort of scientifc experiment gone wrong.


----------



## musclepump (May 19, 2005)

Zane's physique seems achievable, so that's why I'm such a fan of his.


----------



## Nick+ (May 21, 2005)

I voted Arnold , as it was photos of him that got be interested in this  crazy 'sport'('art'?) back in the early eighties. Mind you his training advice ("Bodybuilding for Men"  I think the book was called) was bloody useless !    

Favourite present day bodybuilder :     Jay Cutler


----------



## GFR (May 22, 2005)

gr81 said:
			
		

> well actually smart ass, if you really wana get into the history of it, we can.. Steroids were FIRST developed by the Germans in the 1930's and experimented with during that time and throughout WW2 on solciers and prisoners. Your right, Zeigler didn't come around until the mid 50's, but Russian and European athletes were using the shit before his labs started producing Methandrostenolone. I am not saying he used, b/c I bet that he didn't, but thats neither here nor there. Your acting like a little bitch, I tried to be civil and calm with you, but apparently anyone who dares to question what you say is an idiot and therefore deserves the verbal lashing. no one is lying to you, this thread is based on opinion and for you to tell someone else their opinion is wrong is as stupid as it is meaningless. have a nice day



Testosterone was isolated by the Germans in 1937, and was first used by the  Germans in 1938. There are no legitimate reports of steroids being used by athletes until 1950. Steve Reeves was completely natural when he competed.  The first time steroids were used by anyone other then the German military was in 1945, when they were used to help the Holocaust survivors gain weight after they were freed from the concentration camps.


----------



## god hand (Jun 2, 2005)

I think they put steroids in prisoners food. How else could they get so big!


----------



## ABLQ2 (Jun 3, 2005)

reg and steve reeves should be there, id say.


----------



## The Monkey Man (Jun 12, 2005)

I voted Arnold, but...

I'm thinking founders and greats!?

What about... Joe Weider, Jack Lalanne, Bill Pearl, Lee Haney, Ronnie Coleman

What about... Rachel McLish, Corey Everson, Bev Francis, Lenda Murray

????


----------



## GFR (Aug 15, 2005)

1. Arnold
2. Sergio
3. Haney



Mike Mentzer .........


----------



## antelope07 (Aug 15, 2005)

How about Sandow himself?


----------



## musclepump (Aug 15, 2005)

Arnold, Zane, Cutler


----------



## musclepump (Aug 15, 2005)

Nubret was awesome, too


----------



## Psycho Dad (Aug 19, 2005)

musclepump said:
			
		

> psycho dad is the greatest bodybuilder ever


----------



## ARNIE1947 (Oct 16, 2008)

Arnold.......................


----------

