# My PCT after 8 months of blasting and cruising



## exphys88 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok, so I took my last shot of test 1 week ago after running a blast-cruise-blast.  I'm going to keep a log of how it goes, with bloodwork to help those guys that are thinking of coming off of blasting and cruising.  
I'm 32 y/o, 5'8," 205, 15% bodyfat, done having kids.

My first blast:
14 weeks of test e at 500 mg/week.  then bumped it up to 750 mg for last 5 weeks.

cruise:
5 weeks of test e at 250mg/week.

second blast:
15 weeks of test e at 500/week
13 weeks of mast at 350 mg/week
4 weeks of tren at 350/week.  had to drop tren early due to high bp.

I ran aromasin, HCG (1000 iu/week) throughout, and ran caber while on tren.

Here is my pct (5 weeks):



1000 iu of HCG EOD while test clears.


aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5
clomid 100/100/50/50/50
nolva 20/20/20/10/10
cialis if needed-
I chose to run nolva and clomid because there seems to be some disagreement as to which is better for pct.  Additionally, I have a lot of respect for Dr. Scally and he recommends both.  

I am fully aware of the risk I took from being on for so long, but it's the decision that I chose, and I'm going to deal with it.  I have to say that I'm looking forward to being clean for a while.  It gets stressful having to constantly deal with estrogen levels, prolactin levels, shot timing, bunk AI's etc.  So, I'm anxious to get back to some natural training for a while.

My biggest fear is ED while in pct.  I can handle loss of strength, depression etc.  But, the ED is not ok.  



How many of  you guys get ED while in pct?
Any input is appreciated


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## independent (Oct 27, 2011)

How did you feel going from a blast to a cruise? Did you run any hcg during your on time?


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## GMO (Oct 27, 2011)

Subbed...I am running a rather long cycle now myself, so I will be interested in this log, especially with the blood work.

Personally, I have never had ED issues during PCT.  Decreased libido?  Yes, but actually ED...no.


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## exphys88 (Oct 27, 2011)

bigmoe65 said:


> How did you feel going from a blast to a cruise? Did you run any hcg during your on time?



I didn't really feel that much different, strength gains stalled though.  I suspect I didn't cruise for long enough to notice much of a difference. 

I ran hcg 500 iu twice weekly throughout both blasts and the cruise.


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## anxious1 (Oct 27, 2011)

BigMoe, He ran it throughout.

Edit... He beat me to it




exphysiologist88 said:


> Ok, so I took my last shot of test 1 week ago after running a blast-cruise-blast.  I'm going to keep a log of how it goes, with bloodwork to help those guys that are thinking of coming off of blasting and cruising.
> I'm 32 y/o, 5'8," 205, 15% bodyfat, done having kids.
> 
> My first blast:
> ...


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## exphys88 (Oct 27, 2011)

GMO said:


> Subbed...I am running a rather long cycle now myself, so I will be interested in this log, especially with the blood work.
> 
> Personally, I have never had ED issues during PCT.  Decreased libido?  Yes, but actually ED...no.




This is great to hear!  thank you.


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## independent (Oct 27, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> I didn't really feel that much different, strength gains stalled though.  I suspect I didn't cruise for long enough to notice much of a difference.
> 
> I ran hcg 500 iu twice weekly throughout both blasts and the cruise.



I think you will recover just fine then. What were your test levels naturally before the blast and cruise?


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## independent (Oct 27, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> BigMoe, He ran it throughout.
> 
> Edit... He beat me to it



Duh! I should stop speed reading.


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## exphys88 (Oct 27, 2011)

bigmoe65 said:


> I think you will recover just fine then. What were your test levels naturally before the blast and cruise?



I made the mistake of not testing them.  I suspect everything was normal, I've never had any health problems, and always felt great.  And, this is my first real run with aas.


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## anxious1 (Oct 27, 2011)

bigmoe65 said:


> Duh! I should stop speed reading.



It's hard to keep up with all of these threads at times...

It's understandable.


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## independent (Oct 27, 2011)

I ran about 6 cycles in my early to mid twenties with no pct, my last lab test in the AM I was 541ng/nl. Im thinking with you doing all the right things you will recover.


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## Digitalash (Oct 27, 2011)

this should definitely be interesting, wishing you luck bro

I'm thinking since you ran hcg throughout everything should go surprisingly smooth though


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## exphys88 (Oct 27, 2011)

Digitalash said:


> this should definitely be interesting, wishing you luck bro
> 
> I'm thinking since you ran hcg throughout everything should go surprisingly smooth though



Thanks, I sure hope so.


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## BigBird (Oct 27, 2011)

We will be having similar logs as I too am facing the reality of taking a break from gear.  I was considering cruising but I'm leaning more toward clearing my system and going natty for a while.  However, I have NOT ran HCG throughout my nearly 10 month long blast so I'm banking on my PCT protocol.  Have Clomid, Nolva and Adex for PCT.  Not sure what natty levels were prior to this long cycle but I suspect they were well in the average range.  2,206 ng/dL was the level mid-way through cycle.  Thyroid and cholesterol were a disaster so I stopped the orals and been riding out the final stretch on Test and Primo which has been a very enjoyable experience.    

Note to God - please don't let ED happen to me. 

Will get lab work after PCT to see where things stand.


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## exphys88 (Oct 27, 2011)

BigBird said:


> We will be having similar logs as I too am facing the reality of taking a break from gear.  I was considering cruising but I'm leaning more toward clearing my system and going natty for a while.  However, I have NOT ran HCG throughout my nearly 10 month long blast so I'm banking on my PCT protocol.  Have Clomid, Nolva and Adex for PCT.  Not sure what natty levels were prior to this long cycle but I suspect they were well in the average range.  2,206 ng/dL was the level mid-way through cycle.  Thyroid and cholesterol were a disaster so I stopped the orals and been riding out the final stretch on Test and Primo which has been a very enjoyable experience.
> *
> Note to God - please don't let ED happen to me*.
> 
> Will get lab work after PCT to see where things stand.



I hear ya man.  I'd rather be weak and puny with a working dick, then ripped with a limp dick.

On a positive note, a lot of what I have read is that low testosterone is rarely the cause of ED, but it's usually more of a circulation problem.  I wonder if guys that experience ED during PCT is because their libido is so low that they just aren't interested.  

I look forward to your log.


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## BigBird (Oct 27, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> I hear ya man. I'd rather be weak and puny with a working dick, then ripped with a limp dick.
> 
> On a positive note, a lot of what I have read is that low testosterone is rarely the cause of ED, but it's usually more of a circulation problem. I wonder if guys that experience ED during PCT is because their libido is so low that they just aren't interested.
> 
> I look forward to your log.


 
Will keep you posted as well.  Still have a few weeks to go (assuming I don't get "cold feet" and choose to cruise, lol).


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## GreatWhiteTruth (Oct 27, 2011)

Subbed. My libido is usually nuked during the first 3 weeks of PCT, but usually come week 4 I start getting morning wood again. All of my cycles have been 10-14 weeks though.

There's not a worse feeling than waiting on your dick to get hard, because you never know.


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## independent (Oct 27, 2011)

BigBird said:


> We will be having similar logs as I too am facing the reality of taking a break from gear.  I was considering cruising but I'm leaning more toward clearing my system and going natty for a while.  However, I have NOT ran HCG throughout my nearly 10 month long blast so I'm banking on my PCT protocol.  Have Clomid, Nolva and Adex for PCT.  Not sure what natty levels were prior to this long cycle but I suspect they were well in the average range.  2,206 ng/dL was the level mid-way through cycle.  Thyroid and cholesterol were a disaster so I stopped the orals and been riding out the final stretch on Test and Primo which has been a very enjoyable experience.
> 
> Note to God - please don't let ED happen to me.
> 
> Will get lab work after PCT to see where things stand.



Please get blood work when youre done because Im real curious how well you recover. I have a suspicion you will be fine.


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## pieguy (Oct 27, 2011)

Are either of u looking to take a dosage of triptorelin to start pct off? Most say libido is raging throughout pct post injection altho total test is another story.


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## SloppyJ (Oct 27, 2011)

Sub'd. Good luck bro.


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## Hench (Oct 27, 2011)

Sub'd. 

I've got a close friend in the cruise faze of his B-C-B. I'm also considering doing this myself. Good luck bro, looking forward to the results.


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## anxious1 (Oct 27, 2011)

sub'd


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## exphys88 (Oct 27, 2011)

GreatWhiteTruth said:


> Subbed. My libido is usually nuked during the first 3 weeks of PCT, but usually come week 4 I start getting morning wood again. All of my cycles have been 10-14 weeks though.
> 
> There's not a worse feeling than waiting on your dick to get hard, because you never know.




thanks for the input.  
Is it just your libido that is gone, or do you actually have trouble getting it up?


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## exphys88 (Oct 27, 2011)

pieguy said:


> Are either of u looking to take a dosage of triptorelin to start pct off? Most say libido is raging throughout pct post injection altho total test is another story.



digitalash also recommended this, but honestly I'm ignorant about it.  I'm also scared to try something that is fairly new and doesn't have a lot of feedback.


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## independent (Oct 27, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> digitalash also recommended this, but honestly I'm ignorant about it.  I'm also scared to try something that is fairly new and doesn't have a lot of feedback.



also dont try to think about it too much because that can cause problems too.


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## anxious1 (Oct 27, 2011)

What about upping your HCG dosage a little bit?  Or doing a blast dose in order to jumpstart it all... (I know you've already been running it)  If you are really worried about ED, then you could add some peptides in there to make sure you get hard.


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## GreatWhiteTruth (Oct 27, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> thanks for the input.
> Is it just your libido that is gone, or do you actually have trouble getting it up?



Well it will get up if I force it to if you know what I mean, but not quite to the point of ED. Usually no amount of naked women or porn even phases me for the first 2 weeks or so. Tribulus, Trans-resveratrol, and horny goat weed 2-3 times a day will help tremendously on the natty side. If you've been running HCG throughout, it will make things go much smoother for you as well. 

Like moe said too, some of it could be you psyching yourself out. Libido recovery has always been a slow process for me. I wouldn't start worrying until you are at least 4 weeks into PCT and you get your bloods done.

I've looked into triptorelin but I'm with you on this one. Not enough facts yet.


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## exphys88 (Oct 27, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> What about upping your HCG dosage a little bit?  Or doing a blast dose in order to jumpstart it all... (I know you've already been running it)  If you are really worried about ED, then you could add some peptides in there to make sure you get hard.



I have upped the hcg from 500 iu twice a week to 1000iu eod.  And, I don't really expect to get ED, I've always been easily excited and have never had a problem.  Just the thought freaks me out though.  And, I've got some cialis just in case.


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## exphys88 (Oct 27, 2011)

GreatWhiteTruth said:


> Well it will get up if I force it to if you know what I mean, but not quite to the point of ED. Usually no amount of naked women or porn even phases me for the first 2 weeks or so. Tribulus, Trans-resveratrol, and horny goat weed 2-3 times a day will help tremendously on the natty side. If you've been running HCG throughout, it will make things go much smoother for you as well.
> 
> Like moe said too, some of it could be you psyching yourself out. Libido recovery has always been a slow process for me. I wouldn't start worrying until you are at least 4 weeks into PCT and you get your bloods done.
> 
> I've looked into triptorelin but I'm with you on this one. Not enough facts yet.



thanks.  It sounds similar to other guys who just have no will to get it up, but not actually a problem.

I've read about psychogenic ED too, so I know to not be too focused on it or it will make it worse.


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## GreatWhiteTruth (Oct 27, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> thanks.  It sounds similar to other guys who just have no will to get it up, but not actually a problem.
> 
> I've read about psychogenic ED too, so I know to not be too focused on it or it will make it worse.



Absolutely. Having cialis on hand is never bad thing either. Especially if the occasion calls for it  Sometimes you just need a little kickstart.


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## keith1569 (Oct 27, 2011)

so just my experience

i did an 8 month cycle that started last october..anyway i used hcg at 500iu a week.
i ran 500mg test for 14 weeks then cruised on 250mg test for like 10 weeks and then like 16 weeks of 500mg test 400mg tren..

while test cleared hcg 1000iu ed
my pct was just clomid and aromasin for 4 weeks 

anyway like 10 weeks after pct i had my test levels and such..my total test was 180ish and my lh and fsh was .2..so i was still shut down obviously..

anyway i went back on and did a 10 week cycle..

while test cleared i did 1000iu ed
last week i started 50mcg of triptorelin for a total of 200mcg..i am running aromasin along with it to at 25/25/25/12.5

in december which will be 7 weeks past my pct i am gonna get labs and hope to get lab results in range..wish me luck! and goodluck to u also man.  btw i am 26 and beforehand my test levels when i was 23 were like 680..so just letting u know my experience


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## fsoe (Oct 27, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Ok, so I took my last shot of test 1 week ago after running a blast-cruise-blast.  I'm going to keep a log of how it goes, with bloodwork to help those guys that are thinking of coming off of blasting and cruising.
> I'm 32 y/o, 5'8," 205, 15% bodyfat, done having kids.
> 
> My first blast:
> ...



my last pct was in Jan - march after a 20 week run and I had major ED problems, so bad I went to the my doc and he said at my age 34 it was un common for ed, BUT MY ED WAS DUE TO ANABOLICS ...  so he suggested shorter runs 6-8 weeks, then cruise 2-3 months , then run 6-8 weeks.... basically he told me just do shorter runs its easier to recover and then just cruise.... he told me at 35 with my anabolic use just t]get on and get committed ... he has been on gh and test for 17 years straight... 

so that is what I am gonna do after my next 16 week run in the spring , I am preping for a show next july and then I am done with long runs


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## exphys88 (Oct 27, 2011)

Damn, you guys freak me out! 

What's your guys' cycle history?  

fsoe: did cruising alleviate the ED problems?  

Thank you guys for the input, even though you have caused me anxiety.


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## WendysBaconator (Oct 27, 2011)

Good Luck , im sure youll recover fine bruh.  Im running a long cycle myself, a slingshot type thing. Coming down for the summer all ripped...


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## fsoe (Oct 27, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Damn, you guys freak me out!
> 
> What's your guys' cycle history?
> 
> ...



yes ... it made all the diff. in the world.... no problems at all now... and I will never run tren without proviron again.... its helps me soooooooo much !!!!


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## GreatWhiteTruth (Oct 28, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Damn, you guys freak me out!
> 
> ...
> 
> Thank you guys for the input, even though you have caused me anxiety.



You're psyching yourself out man! I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. You're taking all the necessary pre-cautions and being smart about it. And like I mentioned earlier, natty supplements like tribulus and HGW always make a great addition to any PCT. It just takes patience.


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## BigBird (Oct 28, 2011)

Yes, def run Proviron with Tren, lol.  

Psychological aspects/fear of ED can play a large role in the actual occurrence of ED too.  Due to the fact that I've been a goddamn sexual tyrannosaurus for the past 11 months, my wife would probably LOVE if I have ED for a few weeks.  lol.  Poor girl could use some recovery time which I have not allowed her to have.  However, she is capable of multiple orgasms while I give her oral pleasure so if I have to endure ED, I will at least keep her happy somewhat until my tube steak can finally stiffen up and party.  (it helps that I am the only guy she has ever been with so I know that I get to kiss and lick a p*ssy that tastes like strawberry shortcake and has not been invaded by some other dirty prick, haha).  As a result, my self esteem and "manhood" won't take quite such a hit as my tongue will still be able to send her to another "planet" until the dick wakes up - that is, if ED becomes a short term reality.  I would like to run Proviron throughout pct but I have read this is a no-no.

Viagra and Cialis on hand as they will probably be needed.  Might be wise to get some hcg for PCT seeing that I have not ran hcg at all during this 11 month blast.  I'm hoping NOt to need trt but if I do, I do.  I created my own situation and am willing to accept the outcome.

Sorry for vulgar details to anyone who may be offended.


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## exphys88 (Oct 28, 2011)

BigBird said:


> Yes, def run Proviron with Tren, lol.
> 
> Psychological aspects/fear of ED can play a large role in the actual occurrence of ED too.  Due to the fact that I've been a goddamn sexual tyrannosaurus for the past 11 months, my wife would probably LOVE if I have ED for a few weeks.  lol.  Poor girl could use some recovery time which I have not allowed her to have.  However, she is capable of multiple orgasms while I give her oral pleasure so if I have to endure ED, I will at least keep her happy somewhat until my tube steak can finally stiffen up and party.  (it helps that I am the only guy she has ever been with so I know that I get to kiss and lick a p*ssy that tastes like strawberry shortcake and has not been invaded by some other dirty prick, haha).  As a result, my self esteem and "manhood" won't take quite such a hit as my tongue will still be able to send her to another "planet" until the dick wakes up - that is, if ED becomes a short term reality.  I would like to run Proviron throughout pct but I have read this is a no-no.
> 
> ...



Great post,  no need to apologize.  I think my wife will be a little relieved too, that tren makes me a sexual predator.  And, my wife is very fond of the tongue as well, but hopefully if I have a problem, it's only short lived.  

I'm in the same boat as you are, I made this decision knowingly full well the risks I was taking, and I'm prepared for whatever happens.  

I am curious if anyone knows of guys recovering after cycles this long?  I remember glycomann posting that he recovered his test levels after 2 years of HRT.


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## keith1569 (Oct 28, 2011)

ya man it is possible to recover after being on for extended periods of time, but not everyone does..just stick to your pct, mabe extend it out 8 weeks..and get some lab work like 4 to 8 weeks after your done with your pct


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## GreatWhiteTruth (Oct 29, 2011)

keith1569 said:


> ya man it is possible to recover after being on for extended periods of time, but not everyone does..just stick to your pct, mabe extend it out 8 weeks..and get some lab work like 4 to 8 weeks after your done with your pct



Absolutely. More recovery time is never a bad thing.


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## keith1569 (Oct 29, 2011)

for example if i dont recover from my current pct im gonna give 1000iu hcg ed a go for like 8 weeks then followeed by 8 weeks of 50mg 2x a day of clomid  and see if that does the trick..if not well...idk hrt i suppose


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## exphys88 (Oct 29, 2011)

I've seen Dr. Scally recommend an HCG test to determine if someone is either primary or secondary hypogonadism.  

He does 2000 iu every third day for 30 days, and has test levels checked after the 5th or 6th shot.  If test levels aren't normal after that then you have primary hypogonadism.  Meaning, that it's the testicles that are the problem.  

If test levels are normal after the HCG test, then it's secondary hypo and your pituitary and/or hypothalamus is the cause of low test levels.  Meaning that there isn't enough lh being produced to stimulate the testes.

The point of all this is that if someone's testicles are still working fine, one can use just hcg as TRT and have normal test levels.  

This will be my route if I can't recover after two pct attempts.

Dr. Scally is a wealth of information and  has treated thousands of guys suffering from AIH.  (anabolic induced hypogonadism).  And, you can read all of his recommendations at meso.


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## BigBird (Oct 29, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> I've seen Dr. Scally recommend an HCG test to determine if someone is either primary or secondary hypogonadism.
> 
> He does 2000 iu every third day for 30 days, and has test levels checked after the 5th or 6th shot. If test levels aren't normal after that then you have primary hypogonadism. Meaning, that it's the testicles that are the problem.
> 
> ...


 
Interesting info about Doc Scally and "AIH."  I'm hoping my test levels recover and trt won't be necessary but if there's any trouble, I've brought it upon myself.  I also have NEVER recommended anyone to run an extended blast like I have.  I have friends who blast and then run pct the traditional method - aka 12-16 week cycles.  They ask me if I think they should blast indefinitely and I'm quick to let them know I do what I do and cannot in my good clear conscience encourage someone (stranger or friend) to take the chances I take.  I tell them it is completely their call - I could recover fine and the next guy might shut down permanently so you never can tell.  What works for one may not work for another.  

Oh well, this is going to be interesting for lack of a better term.  Good luck to all and any who choose the looooong blast sessions like myself, Exphys and others.  Let's all post our results once recovery/pct starts and progresses.


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## Runner22 (Oct 29, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> I hear ya man. I'd rather be weak and puny with a working dick, then ripped with a limp dick.
> 
> On a positive note, a lot of what I have read is that low testosterone is rarely the cause of ED, but it's usually more of a circulation problem. I wonder if guys that experience ED during PCT is because their libido is so low that they just aren't interested.
> 
> I look forward to your log.


 
I'm in week 4 of PCT, after a 16 week cycle and I can say that I have no issues with ED, but I also have little interest in sex.  I'm just now starting to have that feeling in my gut where I want to "hit it" after seeing an attractive girl.  To be honest, my girlfriend is like WTF?  I'm thinking i may need to extend my PCT another two weeks, but will wait to see what my bloodwork tells me to do.

Best of Luck!


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## exphys88 (Oct 29, 2011)

Runner22 said:


> I'm in week 4 of PCT, after a 16 week cycle and I can say that I have no issues with ED, but I also have little interest in sex.  I'm just now starting to have that feeling in my gut where I want to "hit it" after seeing an attractive girl.  To be honest, my girlfriend is like WTF?  I'm thinking i may need to extend my PCT another two weeks, but will wait to see what my bloodwork tells me to do.
> 
> Best of Luck!



Thanks bro!  I find it interesting the variation of symptoms that each guy experiences during pct.  I'm pretty sure my test levels have dropped dramatically and I have no ED either too.


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## exphys88 (Oct 29, 2011)

BigBird said:


> Interesting info about Doc Scally and "AIH."  I'm hoping my test levels recover and trt won't be necessary but if there's any trouble, I've brought it upon myself.  I also have NEVER recommended anyone to run an extended blast like I have.  I have friends who blast and then run pct the traditional method - aka 12-16 week cycles.  They ask me if I think they should blast indefinitely and I'm quick to let them know I do what I do and cannot in my good clear conscience encourage someone (stranger or friend) to take the chances I take.  I tell them it is completely their call - I could recover fine and the next guy might shut down permanently so you never can tell.  What works for one may not work for another.
> 
> Oh well, this is going to be interesting for lack of a better term.  Good luck to all and any who choose the looooong blast sessions like myself, Exphys and others.  Let's all post our results once recovery/pct starts and progresses.



Good luck to you too.  I'll definitely keep this updated


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## keith1569 (Oct 29, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> I've seen Dr. Scally recommend an HCG test to determine if someone is either primary or secondary hypogonadism.
> 
> He does 2000 iu every third day for 30 days, and has test levels checked after the 5th or 6th shot.  If test levels aren't normal after that then you have primary hypogonadism.  Meaning, that it's the testicles that are the problem.
> 
> ...



that is very good info!  thanks for posting it up..i if dont recover after this pct i will give that method a try and see what happens

if one were to use hcg as their trt to keep test levels up, what would the dose be?  just continuous 2000iu e3d?


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## exphys88 (Oct 29, 2011)

keith1569 said:


> that is very good info!  thanks for posting it up..i if dont recover after this pct i will give that method a try and see what happens
> 
> if one were to use hcg as their trt to keep test levels up, what would the dose be?  just continuous 2000iu e3d?



I wouldn't think it would need to be that high, but I'm not sure.  I would assume it would depend on bloodwork.  I'll look into it and see if I can find out.  Dr. Scally is a moderator at meso-rx and answers questions for members almost daily.


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## exphys88 (Oct 29, 2011)

Here is a good thread where Dr. Scally and Bill Roberts are helping someone recover, and another bit of info from Dr. Scally.

GnRH(LHRH) vs Triptorelin Bill Roberts

How Do I Use HCG with Steroids?

Hope this helps


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## exphys88 (Oct 29, 2011)

Here is what Dr. Scally recomends if your test is good (>400) after the hcg challenge test:

"I suggest a hCG challenge - 2,000 IU Q3D X 10. Check the T level after 5-6 injection. If this is good (>400), finish the hCG and begin SERM. "


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## keith1569 (Oct 29, 2011)

here is another links to a guy who did trip shot and didnt do it for him...he is now trying Dr. Scally method

Scally, Lab Results

it looks like when running 2000iu e3d of hcg you can run clomid along with it


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## exphys88 (Oct 29, 2011)

keith1569 said:


> here is another links to a guy who did trip shot and didnt do it for him...he is now trying Dr. Scally method
> 
> Scally, Lab Results
> 
> it looks like when running 2000iu e3d of hcg you can run clomid along with it



Correct, but this shouldn't be mistaken for a pct.  This is just to determine what type of hypogonadism one has.


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## keith1569 (Oct 30, 2011)

but if a serm doesnt do the trick u could always stay on 2000iu e3d for a trt type of thing if it puts ur test levels inthe 400's correct?


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## exphys88 (Oct 30, 2011)

keith1569 said:


> but if a serm doesnt do the trick u could always stay on 2000iu e3d for a trt type of thing if it puts ur test levels inthe 400's correct?



I'm not sure, good question.  It's probably a question for Dr. Scally.  It seems like this type of trt would be better than trt with test though, because you would be able to keep the testes working and possibly be able to get the hypothalamus and/or pituitary working in the future.


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## OTG85 (Oct 30, 2011)

I recovered fine with just clomid and nolvadex after 1 1/2 of blast and cruise.You all will be fine.Half ppl who do gear don't even know what pct is and they eventually recover.


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## keith1569 (Oct 30, 2011)

How long did u run clomid and nolva for? Did u get labs done is how u know u recovered? 

Sent from my Samsung Infuse 4G


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## OTG85 (Oct 30, 2011)

4 weeks and no labs !I just felt fine and started making gains naturally again.Sex drive was great,nut's were plump again.What more could I ask for?


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## BigBird (Oct 31, 2011)

ontopthegame85 said:


> I recovered fine with just clomid and nolvadex after 1 1/2 of blast and cruise.You all will be fine.Half ppl who do gear don't even know what pct is and they eventually recover.


 

"1 1/2"?  1 1/2 years I assume, right?  If so, this is good to know.  It's easy to submit to the fearmongering associated with the possibility of never fully recovering even if running proper pct.  Still, a full recovery is not a given.  I believe in all likelihood that I would recover pct or no pct - of course it would behoove me to use pct and shorten recovery time but some people aren't so lucky despite the odds of a full recovery eventually happening for most of us running long blast sessions.


----------



## GreatWhiteTruth (Oct 31, 2011)

BigBird said:


> "1 1/2"?  1 1/2 years I assume, right?  If so, this is good to know.  It's easy to submit to the fearmongering associated with the possibility of never fully recovering even if running proper pct.  Still, a full recovery is not a given.  I believe in all likelihood that I would recover pct or no pct - of course it would behoove me to use pct and shorten recovery time but some people aren't so lucky despite the odds of a full recovery eventually happening for most of us running long blast sessions.



Indeed. I've never run a cycle longer than 14 weeks and even with HCG it takes forever for me to recover. I always do, but my PCTs are never less than 6 weeks. Unfortunately in this game, one size doesn't fit all.


----------



## exphys88 (Nov 4, 2011)

Update:
It's been 14 days since last shot of 250 mg test e.  the last 2 weeks of my cycle I only injected 250/week, so I'm assuming my test levels are low-correct me if I'm wrong.

I have noticed a slight drop in motivation, but not bad.

Major drop in libido, but def no ED issues.  The lack of interest has increased my stamina which is working out nicely.

No sides from pct meds.

Strength has remained stagnant.

Overall, I actually feel better, back to my old self.  I'm wondering if maybe I already had low test levels pre cycle and didn't know it.  Cause , I feel completely normal.


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## keith1569 (Nov 4, 2011)

For me it took longer than 2 weeks off to crash. Closer to 4 for me when I noticed it 

Sent from my Samsung Infuse 4G


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## exphys88 (Nov 4, 2011)

Yeah, I was waiting for someone to say that.  Im sure it can't be this easy.


----------



## keith1569 (Nov 4, 2011)

LOL not trying to be a downer but that's just my experience. Hopefully you stay the way u feel but don't be surprised if ya don't. 

Sent from my Samsung Infuse 4G


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## exphys88 (Nov 4, 2011)

Oh, I fully believe that I must not of crashed yet.  Thanks for keeping it real.


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## GreatWhiteTruth (Nov 4, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> ... I'm wondering if maybe I already had low test levels pre cycle and didn't know it.  Cause , I feel completely normal.



I've wondered this myself. Before my very first cycle, my pre-cycle bloodwork said my Test was in the low 200s. The doc said it was normal, but as anyone knows it's all based on the doctors opinion and experience. I was surprised at how low it was.


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## exphys88 (Nov 4, 2011)

GreatWhiteTruth said:


> I've wondered this myself. Before my very first cycle, my pre-cycle bloodwork said my Test was in the low 200s. The doc said it was normal, but as anyone knows it's all based on the doctors opinion and experience. I was surprised at how low it was.



Bout 10 years ago I did 3-4 months of deca only w only clomid as pct, and didn't use again until march 2011, then I blasted and cruised until now.  So, there is a possibility that I never recovered and just got used to low test levels.  Idk

I do know that I've always had a hard time putting on mass and staying lean until I started aas again.  And I've had to have an incredibly clean diet to keep my cholesterol down.  So, maybe I'll never recover to normal levels.


----------



## GreatWhiteTruth (Nov 5, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Bout 10 years ago I did 3-4 months of *deca only* w *only clomid* as pct, and didn't use again until march 2011, then I blasted and cruised until now.  So, there is a possibility that I never recovered and just got used to low test levels.  Idk
> 
> ...



Especially with a deca ONLY cycle.  Idk though, 10 years is a long time for never recovering fully. But then again, it _was_ deca.


----------



## exphys88 (Nov 10, 2011)

Another update:
I'm about 3 weeks since last shot and still have only noticed a few changes. 

-libido is still way down, but no ED at all.

-I'm getting sore as hell from my workouts, which have been really intense.  I'm remaining very motivated.

-Feeling a little down, but hardly noticeable.

Overall, I'm thinking this is pretty easy.  But here is my question:

I'm going to get bloodwork done 4 weeks after my pct is done, but I was considering also doing it in a couple days to determine if my lh and test levels are responding to the pct meds.  Is there any value to this?  Money is not an issue.


----------



## BP2000 (Nov 10, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Another update:
> I'm about 3 weeks since last shot and still have only noticed a few changes.
> 
> -libido is still way down, but no ED at all.
> ...





You got really good advice for PCT>  Most ppl don't put much effort into it.  Your HCG meds plus clomid/nolva combo is great.  Good luck


----------



## exphys88 (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks, I owe it to Dr. Scally and the vets here.  GMO, and heavy especially.


----------



## GMO (Nov 10, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Another update:
> I'm about 3 weeks since last shot and still have only noticed a few changes.
> 
> -libido is still way down, but no ED at all.
> ...




You will most likely still have levels of anabolics in your system, especially nandrolone.  I would hold off on bw until 4-6 weeks after PCT is completed.


----------



## exphys88 (Nov 10, 2011)

I never did any deca.  And the last 2 weeks of my cycle I only did 250 mg of test e each week.  
And I will do bw well after pct, just wondering if I can learn anything by also doing bw now.  I'm thinking that if lh is normal it may be a good sign that recovery is possible.  Your thoughts?


----------



## GMO (Nov 10, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> I never did any deca.  And the last 2 weeks of my cycle I only did 250 mg of test e each week.
> And I will do bw well after pct, just wondering if I can learn anything by also doing bw now.  I'm thinking that if lh is normal it may be a good sign that recovery is possible.  Your thoughts?



Well, where did I get that idea...hmmm, sorry retard moment.

I guess it couldn't hurt, but you won't get a complete picture until down the road.


----------



## exphys88 (Nov 17, 2011)

Update:

It's been 4 weeks since last pin and I still have yet to feel any significant difference.  
I'm beginning to think that for some, pct isn't all that bad.  Or, maybe it's just that only the real bad stories post about it and that's all I've read?



Strength has remained the same, plus soreness.
Libido dropped quite a bit, but the last week it has returned to normal.
mood has been good, no depression at all
no ED whatsoever
Motivation to workout is great
I do feel a little sleepy during the day sometimes, but not bad.
Is this a normal pct experience for you guys?  Is it still too early to know?


----------



## ~RaZr~ (Nov 17, 2011)

Looks to me like your pushing through the PCT pretty well....


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## SloppyJ (Nov 17, 2011)

I'm 2 weeks into it almost 3. I cut my workouts from 5days to a 3 day split to get more recovery. Im also taking DES 100mcg on WO days. I feel the same way that you do. This has been much better than my first PCT. And the only different factor is that I used HCG during the cycle. I haven't noticed a drop in libido though. Which surprised the shit out of me. 






exphysiologist88 said:


> Update:
> 
> It's been 4 weeks since last pin and I still have yet to feel any significant difference.
> I'm beginning to think that for some, pct isn't all that bad. Or, maybe it's just that only the real bad stories post about it and that's all I've read?
> ...


----------



## GreatWhiteTruth (Nov 17, 2011)

SloppyJ said:


> I'm 2 weeks into it almost 3. I cut my workouts from 5days to a 3 day split to get more recovery. Im also taking DES 100mcg on WO days. I feel the same way that you do. This has been much better than my first PCT. And the only different factor is that I used HCG during the cycle. I haven't noticed a drop in libido though. Which surprised the shit out of me.



Gotta be the HCG during cycle sloppy. It makes PCT a breeze. The difference is literally night and day. 

I just finished mine up. Lost 2 pounds (DGAF), kept all of my strength and libido is back and kicking. At week 4 I noticed my libido was coming back, but I had enough clomid so I decided just to push it out to 6 weeks to be on the safe side. So far so good.


----------



## exphys88 (Nov 17, 2011)

GreatWhiteTruth said:


> Gotta be the HCG during cycle sloppy. It makes PCT a breeze. The difference is literally night and day.
> 
> I just finished mine up. Lost 2 pounds (DGAF), kept all of my strength and libido is back and kicking. At week 4 I noticed my libido was coming back, but I had enough clomid so I decided just to push it out to 6 weeks to be on the safe side. So far so good.



I'm going to pct for 6 weeks too.  after 8 months on, I'm sure I need it.


----------



## SloppyJ (Nov 17, 2011)

GreatWhiteTruth said:


> Gotta be the HCG during cycle sloppy. It makes PCT a breeze. The difference is literally night and day.
> 
> I just finished mine up. Lost 2 pounds (DGAF), kept all of my strength and libido is back and kicking. At week 4 I noticed my libido was coming back, but I had enough clomid so I decided just to push it out to 6 weeks to be on the safe side. So far so good.


 

Yup I'll never run another cycle without it. I ran 500iu 2x per week and then blasted 1000iu 3x one week before PCT. I also LOVE the DES in the mix. It still makes me feel like I'm doing something fun 

I was on a 20wk'r. I plan to run for 6 weeks also. What was your layout? This is mine. 

Clomid: 100/100/75/75/50/50
Nolva: 10mg ED the first 4 weeks
Aromasin: 25/25/25/25/12.5/12.5


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## exphys88 (Nov 17, 2011)

SloppyJ said:


> Yup I'll never run another cycle without it. I ran 500iu 2x per week and then blasted 1000iu 3x one week before PCT. I also LOVE the DES in the mix. It still makes me feel like I'm doing something fun
> 
> I was on a 20wk'r. I plan to run for 6 weeks also. What was your layout? This is mine.
> 
> ...



Mine is pretty identical to this, but I'm gonna run the nolva for 6 weeks and the clomid for 5.  and i'm running 20 mg of nolva.  

What is DES?


----------



## SloppyJ (Nov 17, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Mine is pretty identical to this, but I'm gonna run the nolva for 6 weeks and the clomid for 5. and i'm running 20 mg of nolva.
> 
> What is DES?


 
IGF-DES. Pretty much a fast acting IGF.


----------



## independent (Nov 17, 2011)

This is great news for you guys. Why doesnt anyone run torem for pct?


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## GMO (Nov 17, 2011)

Just remember boys, and I'm not trying to discourage you, that weeks 4-6 is when you would normally hit a wall.  That is PCT, not after your last shot of test.  You do not fully recover your natty test levels during PCT...that just gets the process started.  Then it is up to your body to pick up the slack and get things going.  This is especially true if you were pinning high doses of long estered compounds.


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## exphys88 (Nov 17, 2011)

I'm not familiar with torem.  I basically do what dr. scally suggests, but I add aromasin to his mix.


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## exphys88 (Nov 17, 2011)

GMO said:


> Just remember boys, and I'm not trying to discourage you, that weeks 4-6 is when you would normally hit a wall.  That is PCT, not after your last shot of test.  You do not fully recover your natty test levels during PCT...that just gets the process started.  Then it is up to your body to pick up the slack and get things going.  This is especially true if you were pinning high doses of long estered compounds.



Thanks for this.  I'm shocked that it has been so easy, and have been skeptical that my levels have dropped that much.  Especially with the clomid in my system.  

I would assume that the big drop happens when the clomid is discontinued and my body has to take over on it's own?


----------



## SloppyJ (Nov 17, 2011)

GMO said:


> Just remember boys, and I'm not trying to discourage you, that weeks 4-6 is when you would normally hit a wall. That is PCT, not after your last shot of test. You do not fully recover your natty test levels during PCT...that just gets the process started. Then it is up to your body to pick up the slack and get things going. This is especially true if you were pinning high doses of long estered compounds.


 

Party pooper!


----------



## BP2000 (Nov 17, 2011)

WHat are your clomid/Nolva doses?  You and sloppy should start preaching the correct PCT.  You guys are doing it right with HCG during and blasting right before PCT along with clomid/nolva/aro. Only other change is I would add 3 day's of toremiphene right after last shot at 60-120mg. 

The biggest thing about PCT is getting your balls working again.  So by taking HCG during your balls are partially online, then you blast at the end to wake them up more.  Then the clomid and nolva help afterwards.  Good job boys.


----------



## GMO (Nov 17, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Thanks for this.  I'm shocked that it has been so easy, and have been skeptical that my levels have dropped that much.  Especially with the clomid in my system.
> 
> I would assume that the big drop happens when the clomid is discontinued and my body has to take over on it's own?




It is not so much the Clomid being discontinued, but the passage of time as more and more of the exogenous hormones are processed out of your system.  Remember, you start your PCT at just one half-life of test, and that test has been accumulating over the period of your entire cycle.  It actually takes quite a bit of time before all exogenous hormones are completely out of your system.  That's why getting blood work done after PCT is a waste IMO.  4-6 weeks after PCT will give you a better picture of what is happening, and even then your body is still ramping up test production further, so it is good to have labs done an additional 4-6 weeks after that.
The average time to COMPLETELY recover your natty test levels is probably a good 4-6 months post-cycle.


----------



## exphys88 (Nov 17, 2011)

these are my doses:
clomid: 100/100/100/50/50-5 weeks
nolva: 20/20/20/20/10/10-6 weeks
aromasin: 25/25/25/12.5/12.5-5 weeks

I'm not sure why, but Dr. Scally recommends running nolva longer than the clomid.  I'm in no position to debate this with anyone, but I do trust his judgement.


----------



## exphys88 (Nov 17, 2011)

GMO said:


> It is not so much the Clomid being discontinued, but the passage of time as more and more of the exogenous hormones are processed out of your system.  Remember, you start your PCT at just one half-life of test, and that test has been accumulating over the period of your entire cycle.  It actually takes quite a bit of time before all exogenous hormones are completely out of your system.  That's why getting blood work done after PCT is a waste IMO.  4-6 weeks after PCT will give you a better picture of what is happening, and even then your body is still ramping up test production further, so it is good to have labs done an additional 4-6 weeks after that.
> The average time to COMPLETELY recover your natty test levels is probably a good 4-6 months post-cycle.



Ok.  I've read Dr. Scally say that a normal 500 mg test cycle for 12 weeks will take a full month for test levels to drop to a level where recovery can actually start, which is exactly what you're saying.  I'm just at a month now.  I plan on waiting 4 weeks post pct to get blood work done.


----------



## GreatWhiteTruth (Nov 17, 2011)

SloppyJ said:


> Yup I'll never run another cycle without it. I ran 500iu 2x per week and then blasted 1000iu 3x one week before PCT. I also LOVE the DES in the mix. It still makes me feel like I'm doing something fun
> 
> I was on a 20wk'r. I plan to run for 6 weeks also. What was your layout? This is mine.
> 
> ...



lol mine was practically identical minus the nolva. However I didn't run HCG during PCT. Just 500iu 2x weekly then 1000iu on blast. For me:

Clomid: 100/100/75/75/50/50
Aromasin: 25/25/25/12.5/12.5/12.5

Torem might be worth giving a shot next cycle, but I must admit I know nothing about it other than it's purpose. I've got some reading to do.


----------



## BP2000 (Nov 17, 2011)

From a guy who used Torm:

when it comes to pure PCT effectiveness, no other SERM  out there has impressed me like Toremifene. It just seemed to work so  much faster for me than clomid or nolva. Or even clomid AND nolva  together. But the absolute BEST PCT effect I've experienced would have  to be a combo of Toremifene with a STEROIDAL AI. (exemestane, or ATD.)  As an INVERSE taper. Starting with a high end dose of the Torm and a  minimal dose of the non steroidal AI, and increasing the dose of the AI  while tapering the Torm out.  Some people like Formastane instead of  exemestane or ATD for that purpose but I've not used it in that  particular context so I can't vouch. 
- Show quoted text -


----------



## BP2000 (Nov 17, 2011)

another:

Last PCT  I considered the half life of Torem(about 5 days)  and decided to dose week 1 and 2 60mg/EOD and week 3 and 4 30mg/EOD.
The emotions were much more in check and maintained strength throughout  PCT. Granted the boys weren't raisins (another reason for dosing) but  what a difference all the way around.- Show quoted text -


----------



## independent (Nov 18, 2011)

BP2000 said:


> From a guy who used Torm:
> 
> when it comes to pure PCT effectiveness, no other SERM  out there has impressed me like Toremifene. It just seemed to work so  much faster for me than clomid or nolva. Or even clomid AND nolva  together. But the absolute BEST PCT effect I've experienced would have  to be a combo of Toremifene with a STEROIDAL AI. (exemestane, or ATD.)  As an INVERSE taper. Starting with a high end dose of the Torm and a  minimal dose of the non steroidal AI, and increasing the dose of the AI  while tapering the Torm out.  Some people like Formastane instead of  exemestane or ATD for that purpose but I've not used it in that  particular context so I can't vouch.
> - Show quoted text -



So the reverse taper would keep estro rebound in check when you need it the most?


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## BP2000 (Nov 18, 2011)

bigmoe65 said:


> So the reverse taper would keep estro rebound in check when you need it the most?



Yes sir.  During PCT you are stimulating the pituitary and testicles.  If you did no PCT it could take up to a year for the testicles to rebound by themselves depending on the doses and compounds.  Something like DECA could take 18 months.  The pituitary will rebound in a matter of month's or less if no PCT. 

So the most important thing is to GET DEM BALLS WORKIN.  TORM is more effective than this than the other SERMS.  *Guys have reported their balls growing and hurting and plump using TORM within 3 days!*

HCG works well in this regard too.  So using HCG during and blasting HCG after the last shot and using TORM in conjunction would be stellar in this regard.  After that using clomid/nolva and preventing estro rebound with the AI.


----------



## SloppyJ (Nov 18, 2011)

This is interesting.


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## GMO (Nov 18, 2011)

BP2000 said:


> using TORM in conjunction would be stellar in this regard.  After that using clomid/nolva and preventing estro rebound with the AI.



There is no reason to use Torem AND Clomid, pick one and PCT with it...both work very well.  I also DO NOT buy into the "reverse taper".  You need to taper down your AI dose as you conclude your PCT, not taper it up.


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## BP2000 (Nov 18, 2011)

more:

I talked to the doc today on the phone and he answered many questions for me in regards to recovery of the HPTA.
For those of you who don’t know what that is it is “Hypothalamus Pituitary Testicular Axis”
After administration of AAS, you have shutdown of the HPTA. Depending on  the meds taken shutdown can be severe and much does depend on the  person as well.

This is the protocol the doc said he used in literally thousands of users with suppressed HPTA.
First thing, the 500iu a day was not enough to make the testicles do  their job, he suggested this was just a waste of time and money.
He suggests 8 shots of HCG @ 2500iu EOD.
With this you take 20 mg of nolvadex for 45 days.
Clomid is also taken but twice a day @ 50mg each dose 12 hours apart.

The reason for the amounts of HCG (which is the most important part, if  the balls don’t fire everything else is worthless), is based on his  determination to bring the balls back to life, too little wont  accomplish this, too much risks damage to the Leydig cells.
So he basically was saying that you do the HCG and around day 10 of the  above protocol, you should get a blood test for testosterone. If it is  above 400 or greater then this says the balls will be just fine once you  get off the HCG and the Clomid and nolva take over. This will accept  the LH that you are putting out to maintain testicular function.
He used the term like jumping a car. Your battery (Pituitary gland) if  low wont start your car (your testicles), if you use another car and  jumper cables (HCG) once the car starts your battery (HP part of the  HPTA) will keep your car running.

The clomid by itself he suggested can inhibit either the pituitary or  the hypothalamus (can’t remember which one) but if taken with nolva this  blocks the estrogen receptors so you wont inhibit that.
So clomid in his protocol is always taken with nolvadex ALWAYS.

He did mention that sometimes the balls just don’t take and then you do  the protocol again. He said it was rare that he could not fire up the  HPTA.
He said that beings that I have good size difference (balls), feel good,  strength gains, and a greasy face he felt I should have no problems  with returning the HPTA.

Some things he said was tribulis was actually inhibitory on the HPTA, great I wish I found that out after I bought two bottles.

ZMA, he said if it made me feel good then go for it but it is placebo and the HCG, clomid, nolva was it and all that is needed.

Talked to him about progesterone and he said never take that if you are a man (the last doc prescribed it to me
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)

  I forgot to ask him about the GH question he was saying so much I was just trying to listen.

One thing he did mention (in an article) was that HGH actually helped  with the testicular recovery with things and adding that to the Protocol  is a good idea and productive.

Avoid aspirin when on HCG as it kind of ruins the effects.

He said oxandrolone was suppressive on the HPTA, but Deca and Anadrol  were probably the worst in his opinion. I asked him about tren but he  had no knowledge as he never used it.
*He did mention that test in itself was not all that suppressive and he  has seen guys on 18 months that came off and made a full recovery in 45  days with the above protocol.*

He said one of the best ways was 12 weeks of test, followed by the above  protocol, then start another 12 weeks followed by the above protocol  with a month off after that then start again.

He did say that desensitization to HCG took around 2 months, and the  dose of 2500 was fine and no damage or desensitization would occur if  you followed his protocol.


----------



## keith1569 (Nov 22, 2011)

well guys good and bad news ha.  it has been 5 weeks since my tript shot..got a full lab panel done..RBC and H/H were a bit high so i need to donate blood..all else was good

anyway
total test came back at 527 (348-1197)
estrogen was 16 (7.6-42)
LH .2 (1.7-82.)
FSH .2 (1.5-12.4)

i didnt get free test tested i know but..bad news was that my LH and FSH are low..so im thinking of getting on clomid at 100mg a day for 30 days and 50mg a day for 30 days.

my pct was 200mcg of tript broken into 50mcg shots every 3 days and i ran an ai along side it.


----------



## independent (Nov 22, 2011)

keith1569 said:


> well guys good and bad news ha.  it has been 5 weeks since my tript shot..got a full lab panel done..RBC and H/H were a bit high so i need to donate blood..all else was good
> 
> anyway
> total test came back at 527 (348-1197)
> ...



your total test doesnt look that bad for such a low lh level. how do you feel?


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## keith1569 (Nov 22, 2011)

i actually feel quite good..my only concern with that low of lh and fsh is fertility


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## independent (Nov 22, 2011)

keith1569 said:


> i actually feel quite good..my only concern with that low of lh and fsh is fertility



kids are overrated.


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## keith1569 (Nov 22, 2011)

haha well i have one and i love him to death..we are considering trying to have another in april 2011..


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## independent (Nov 22, 2011)

keith1569 said:


> haha well i have one and i love him to death..we are considering trying to have another in april 2011..



Lol, I have 2.


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## keith1569 (Nov 22, 2011)

hahah!!


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## exphys88 (Nov 22, 2011)

2 kids here too, but also a vasectomy.
I find it interesting that your test is so good but lh and FSh are so low.  What's stimulating your testes?
If it were me, I'd do exactly what you're thinking: run a serm for 4 weeks.  I have heard dr scally claim that lh and FSh levels vary widely during the day and one test of these does not give a clear picture, and that if test is normal, then your lh levels must be ok throughout the day.


----------



## skinnyguy180 (Nov 22, 2011)

Hmm curious to see the end of this I'm in the middle of a cruise and planning on blasting again soon with test e, TNE, and primo.  Hope all goes well for you guys looks like it is.


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## keith1569 (Nov 22, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> 2 kids here too, but also a vasectomy.
> I find it interesting that your test is so good but lh and FSh are so low.  What's stimulating your testes?
> If it were me, I'd do exactly what you're thinking: run a serm for 4 weeks.  I have heard dr scally claim that lh and FSh levels vary widely during the day and one test of these does not give a clear picture, and that if test is normal, then your lh levels must be ok throughout the day.



Thanks for the info man. Ya I am gonna start off with 50mg a day or clomid for a month. And go from there.
Since wifey and I r thinking about another next April in Feb I may start at 50mg again through April. We shall see though. 

Sent from my Samsung Infuse 4G


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## TJTJ (Nov 24, 2011)

So its been about 5weeks since your last pin. No? When are you going to get blood work done? Im curious to see what your levels are. We're around the same age and It would really help me out. 

Btw how are you feeling with your PCT?


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## exphys88 (Nov 24, 2011)

I feel great.  I haven't noticed any changes that are significant.  My strength has remained flat, but no losses.  My libido dropped for a couple weeks, but is back to normal, and I never had any ED.  I am getting quite a few big zits though.

I'm amazed at how well I feel, my psychological status is back to normal, especially since being off of tren.  

I'm going to wait another 5 weeks and then get bloodowork, that will make it 4 weeks since pct ended.


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## TJTJ (Nov 24, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> I feel great.  I haven't noticed any changes that are significant.  My strength has remained flat, but no losses.  My libido dropped for a couple weeks, but is back to normal, and I never had any ED.  I am getting quite a few big zits though.
> 
> I'm amazed at how well I feel, my psychological status is back to normal, especially since being off of tren.
> 
> I'm going to wait another 5 weeks and then get bloodowork, that will make it 4 weeks since pct ended.



Ill follow this log. I need to find some references from people on here and their lab results after a run.


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## acemon (Nov 24, 2011)

This might be moronic but, if some does a blast cruise and blast again they run the risk of not being able to have kids? Is that right?


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## exphys88 (Nov 24, 2011)

acemon said:


> This might be moronic but, if some does a blast cruise and blast again they run the risk of not being able to have kids? Is that right?



I've heard arguments for both sides of this argument.  But, by doing this, I definitely put myself at risk for needing trt for the rest of my life.


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## acemon (Nov 24, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> I've heard arguments for both sides of this argument.  But, by doing this, I definitely put myself at risk for needing trt for the rest of my life.



"trt"? Do you mean hrt? Or is this something different?


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## exphys88 (Nov 24, 2011)

Same thing, trt is testosterone replacement therapy, hrt is hormone replacement therapy.  Sometimes hrt can refer to hgh therapy as well.


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## Digitalash (Nov 24, 2011)

makes me wonder if I should've just given pct a shot instead of continuing to cruise... I've been on some test probably a bit over a year now though so the idea is intimidating lol


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## exphys88 (Nov 24, 2011)

Honestly, I was scared to come off too, but it's been a breeze.  I am only 5 weeks since last shot, so maybe I haven't crashed yet.  I'm just wondering if we just hear the horror stories only.


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## Digitalash (Nov 24, 2011)

yeah at 5 weeks just about all the exogenous hormones should be out of your sytem, if they weren't already a few weeks ago. So either you just don't feel that bad having really low T or you've already started to recover IMO. Glad it's going well for you though bro and hopefully it's smooth sailing from here on out.


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## exphys88 (Nov 24, 2011)

I assumed they dropped quite a bit ago, considering that I only injected 250 mg the last 2 weeks on.  Maybe I've had low test levels along and have gotten used to it?  I did a 3 month run of deca only 10 years ago, maybe that ruined my test levels.  I have always had a tough time staying slim.  Or, maybe I just do well w low test levels?  Sorry for rambling, I'm drunk. Lol


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## TJTJ (Nov 24, 2011)

Sippin' on that Thanksgiving sauce


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## exphys88 (Nov 24, 2011)

Yep, started off w some Costco margarita mix, now enjoying some great white shark beer from a local micro brewery. Lost coast brewery in humboldt county, home of the best buds in the US.


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## Digitalash (Nov 24, 2011)

yeah I'm sure the test was out a while ago, unless you were running some crazy dosage which I doubt. It's all good though I'm sipping some whiskey, ate so much turkey I might puke, and about to enjoy some herb before it's time to sleeep.


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## exphys88 (Nov 24, 2011)

Nope, was only running 500-750 mg a week prior, w only 250 the last 2 weeks.  Hopefully this encourages others to try and recover.


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## doohgk (Nov 25, 2011)

is dropping to 250 a week last 2 weeks something normal or just because you did such a long cycle?


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## exphys88 (Nov 25, 2011)

No, it's not normal.  I was planning on cruising before my next cycle but then wised up and decided to pct.  best decision I've ever made.  Bout to start some hgh and run it for a few months the run a cycle alongside the hgh.


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## keith1569 (Nov 25, 2011)

honestly guys..what i am gonna do next time is do the tript shots then like 4 weeks after the shot add in clomid for another 4 to 8 weeks..even though my fsh and lh is in the dumps my test is good and i feel good


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## exphys88 (Dec 3, 2011)

So, I'm now past 6 weeks since my last shot and have yet to feel any different.  Motivation is good, no depression, and strength has remained flat.  Libido could be better, but it's not bad and no problems performing.  

I just got bloodwork done, and I know it'll be skewed since the serms are still in my system, but I'll get more done in 4-6 weeks too.  I'll post my results in a few days.


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## banker23 (Dec 3, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> So, I'm now past 6 weeks since my last shot and have yet to feel any different. Motivation is good, no depression, and strength has remained flat. Libido could be better, but it's not bad and no problems performing.
> 
> I just got bloodwork done, and I know it'll be skewed since the serms are still in my system, but I'll get more done in 4-6 weeks too. I'll post my results in a few days.


 
Have you ever tried PT-141 for the libido support? It's pretty cheap and you will feel like you are truly in love bro!


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## exphys88 (Dec 3, 2011)

banker23 said:


> Have you ever tried PT-141 for the libido support? It's pretty cheap and you will feel like you are truly in love bro!



No, my education has led me to be a supplement skeptic.  Very few supplements prove to be of any worth.  Do you have any science that supports it's use?


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## banker23 (Dec 3, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> No, my education has led me to be a supplement skeptic. Very few supplements prove to be of any worth. Do you have any science that supports it's use?


 
It's not a supplement it's an injectable peptide. It's effectiveness is well documented (albeit anecdotally) and I've used it myself. You pin it sub-q about 4-6 hours before activity and it keeps working for several days (48-72 hrs). It's not a mechanical helper like viagra/cialis. It affects your actual mood- probably the only true scientifically supported aphrodisiac out there (besides melanotan II which pt-141 is derived from). It was originally developed as a nasal spray but was not approved for this purpose so as far as I know only research chems work. It's cheap enough, it's worth giving a try at least. there's nothing better in my book. Let me know if you want help finding it via PM.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2006/apr/23/medicineandhealth.observermagazine

http://www.mensjournal.com/the-libido-drug

http://www.palatin.com/news/news.asp?param=221

Reportedly, it works for women as well.


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## keith1569 (Dec 3, 2011)

looking forward to your labs bro..


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## exphys88 (Dec 7, 2011)

Alright, I got my test levels back:

Total test: *335*     (348-1197)
Free test:  *13*       (8.7-25.1)
Estradiol:  *7.7*       (7.6-42.6)
lh: * 4.4                    *(1.7-8.6)
FSH:  *2.0*             (1.5-12.4)

This doesn't seem real good to me, considering I still have serms in my system.  But, I feel fine except the libido not being up to par.  Sex is still good and I can perform fine though.  I do know that my aromasin from chemoneresearch was g2g considering my extremely low estradiol.  

I'll recheck in 4-6 weeks.  Any thoughts?


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## pieguy (Dec 7, 2011)

Are you going to continue with 50mg clomid for a few weeks? Seems like that'd be the most logical step followed by another blood test. I mean your stats aren't great, but they're not bad. In range LH/FSH is always a good thing


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## TJTJ (Dec 7, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Alright, I got my test levels back:
> 
> Total test: *335*     (348-1197)
> Free test:  *13*       (8.7-25.1)
> ...



How old are you? Im in my 30s

Compared to my results we're within the same ball park. 

Someone mentioned I should look into this Single dose of triptorelin gets bodybuilder’s hormones going again said its supposed to help, but I havent looked into it yet.


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## exphys88 (Dec 7, 2011)

TJTJ said:


> How old are you? Im in my 30s
> 
> Compared to my results we're within the same ball park.
> 
> Someone mentioned I should look into this Single dose of triptorelin gets bodybuilder???s hormones going again said its supposed to help, but I havent looked into it yet.



I'm 32.  I'm just going to wait it out and see what happens, but will probably continue the serms for another 2 weeks.  Especially cause I feel fine with these test levels.


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## pieguy (Dec 7, 2011)

Have you experienced any strength or weight loss since you began PCT? A few lbs of water weight is expected but nothing too drastic i hope?


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## exphys88 (Dec 7, 2011)

pieguy said:


> Have you experienced any strength or weight loss since you began PCT? A few lbs of water weight is expected but nothing too drastic i hope?



No, but my strength has remained flat for about 6 weeks.  maybe a slight drop, like 5-10 lbs off of my db bench.  Weight has remained the same, but I do feel a little fatter.


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## independent (Dec 7, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Alright, I got my test levels back:
> 
> Total test: *335*     (348-1197)
> Free test:  *13*       (8.7-25.1)
> ...



Doesnt look horrible considering your cycle but its still early. What time did you draw blood?


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## keith1569 (Dec 7, 2011)

not bad bro..i'll trade you some of my free test for you lh and fsh haha
im on 50mg clomid now, so hopefully thats helping my lh and fsh


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## meow (Dec 7, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Yep, started off w some Costco margarita mix, now enjoying some great white shark beer from a local micro brewery. Lost coast brewery in humboldt county, home of the best buds in the US.



Amen to that. HOW local are you? I used to live in Eureka.


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## exphys88 (Dec 7, 2011)

bigmoe65 said:


> Doesnt look horrible considering your cycle but its still early. What time did you draw blood?



at about noon.


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## exphys88 (Dec 7, 2011)

keith1569 said:


> not bad bro..i'll trade you some of my free test for you lh and fsh haha
> im on 50mg clomid now, so hopefully thats helping my lh and fsh



I'm worried that my lh and fsh are only normal because of the serms.  I'm a little worried what will happen when i stop those.  what were your numbers again?


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## TJTJ (Dec 7, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> I'm worried that my lh and fsh are only normal because of the serms.  I'm a little worried what will happen when i stop those.  what were your numbers again?



Get on IML Ultra Male. At least for the mean time.


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## keith1569 (Dec 7, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> I'm worried that my lh and fsh are only normal because of the serms.  I'm a little worried what will happen when i stop those.  what were your numbers again?




both of mine r .2 !


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## exphys88 (Dec 7, 2011)

keith1569 said:


> both of mine r .2 !



Hopefully mine doesn't do that when I stop the serms


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## independent (Dec 8, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> at about noon.



Your numbers would be higher if it was an a.m. draw when your body peaks. My lh is half of yours and I range from 288 to 500ng/nl, the higher number was an a.m. draw. Your body just needs more time to seek homeostasis.


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## keith1569 (Dec 8, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Hopefully mine doesn't do that when I stop the serms



ya me to..im hoping by like may 2012 they will be in range and recovered


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## theboneman (Dec 8, 2011)

im starting pct as soon as it gets here, looks somethin like that, i did some research on the effects it will have on my liver, because i had liver failure last summer and i read nolvadex can be hard on ya, so before ya injest a coctail take a moment and see if you can concoct a safe one 4u. good luck........
                                                                                     bones


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## exphys88 (Dec 8, 2011)

I've been running nolva For 6 weeks and just had a full work up.  All labs were normal.


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## exphys88 (Dec 8, 2011)

keith1569 said:


> ya me to..im hoping by like may 2012 they will be in range and recovered



Im pretty sure I won't make it that long before my next cycle.


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## heavyiron (Dec 8, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> I've been running nolva For 6 weeks and just had a full work up.  All labs were normal.


Yeah, when you run bunk you recover very fast...


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## exphys88 (Dec 8, 2011)

My nolva was from gen-shi


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## heavyiron (Dec 8, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> My nolva was from gen-shi


I meant your cycle. LOL!


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## exphys88 (Dec 8, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> I meant your cycle. LOL!



Luckily for me, I didn't get my gear from a certain sponsor w bunk hgh.


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## heavyiron (Dec 8, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Luckily for me, I didn't get my gear from a certain sponsor w bunk hgh.


=)


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## keith1569 (Dec 8, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Im pretty sure I won't make it that long before my next cycle.




ya haha i would be to, but the wifey and I may be trying for another kid in may, so i need to stay off and try to get the lh and fsh up ha.


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## exphys88 (Dec 8, 2011)

I understand.  I got the snip in jan.  got 2 girls already.  I miss the crazy libido the most.


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## maritimer (Jul 18, 2012)

this doesn't have anything to do with blasting or cruising,i can't believe its left on here .this guy did 20 week cycles back to back, with a few lousy weeks of test in the middle????but yet it says 8and 8?you didn't even clean out your recepters before the second cycle.how can gains be made? glad you don't want no more kids cause that option isn't yours any more bud,lol. feel sorry for you bro.


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## maritimer (Jul 18, 2012)

cruised 5weeks out of 30and you never even cleaned your system out before doin another cycle bro...they are cycles man ,thats not blast and cruise.your a juice monkey looking for a name for your stupidity.


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## exphys88 (Jul 18, 2012)

maritimer said:


> this doesn't have anything to do with blasting or cruising,i can't believe its left on here .this guy did 20 week cycles back to back, with a few lousy weeks of test in the middle????but yet it says 8and 8?you didn't even clean out your recepters before the second cycle.how can gains be made? glad you don't want no more kids cause that option isn't yours any more bud,lol. feel sorry for you bro.



I don't really need any advice from a girl on how to use aas, but thanks.  Could you explain "clean out your recepters" in scientific terms?  *receptors*


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## malfeasance (Jul 19, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> Alright, I got my test levels back:
> 
> Total test: *335*     (348-1197)
> Free test:  *13*       (8.7-25.1)
> ...



Ok, this was December of last year.  Did you ever get off the serms?  What happened?  Have you been tested again?   Did you ever fully recover?  Personally, I do not think everything will be back to normal until at least a couple of months after no more hormone manipulation, giving your body a chance to return to its natural state with no outside influences.

I am just curious how you are doing now.


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## GSracer (Jul 19, 2012)

maritimer said:


> this doesn't have anything to do with blasting or cruising,i can't believe its left on here .this guy did 20 week cycles back to back, with a few lousy weeks of test in the middle????but yet it says 8and 8?you didn't even clean out your recepters before the second cycle.how can gains be made? glad you don't want no more kids cause that option isn't yours any more bud,lol. feel sorry for you bro.



I don't normally neg people.  But I feel you deserved it.


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## exphys88 (Jul 19, 2012)

malfeasance said:


> Ok, this was December of last year.  Did you ever get off the serms?  What happened?  Have you been tested again?   Did you ever fully recover?  Personally, I do not think everything will be back to normal until at least a couple of months after no more hormone manipulation, giving your body a chance to return to its natural state with no outside influences.
> 
> I am just curious how you are doing now.



I didn't test again because I felt great at those test levels.  I stayed off for a while longer and ran another cycle.  I'm cruising right now and will run another cycle in a few weeks.  I may try to pct again after that cycle, or just continue trt.  I'm currently on trt from a doc.


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