# Coffee Drinkers!



## Robboe (Jun 16, 2002)

I've been scanning the JAP and found this, albeit 4 years old, but never the less:

Vol. 85, Issue 3, 883-889, September 1998

Metabolic and exercise endurance effects of coffee and caffeine ingestion 
T. E. Graham, E. Hibbert, and P. Sathasivam 
Human Biology and Nutritional Sciences, University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, Canada N1G 2W1 

Caffeine (Caf) ingestion increases plasma epinephrine (Epi) and exercise endurance; these results are frequently transferred to coffee (Cof) consumption. We examined the impact of ingestion of the same dose of Caf in Cof or in water. Nine healthy, fit, young adults performed five trials after ingesting (double blind) either a capsule (Caf or placebo) with water or Cof (decaffeinated Cof, decaffeinated with Caf added, or regular Cof). In all three Caf trials, the Caf dose was 4.45 mg/kg body wt and the volume of liquid was 7.15 ml/kg. After 1 h of rest, the subject ran at 85% of maximal O2 consumption until voluntary exhaustion (~32 min in the placebo and decaffeinated Cof tests). In the three Caf trials, the plasma Caf and paraxanthine concentrations were very similar. After 1 h of rest, the plasma Epi was increased (P < 0.05) by Caf ingestion, but the increase was greater (P < 0.05) with Caf capsules than with Cof. During the exercise there were no differences in Epi among the three Caf trials, and the Epi values were all greater (P < 0.05) than in the other tests. Endurance was only increased (P < 0.05) in the Caf capsule trial; there were no differences among the other four tests. One cannot extrapolate the effects of Caf to Cof; there must be a component(s) of Cof that moderates the actions of Caf. 

norepinephrine; epinephrine; diuresis; free fatty acids; glucose; glycerol; lactate; performance; methylxanthines; doping 



It's basically suggesting that it's not just caffiene that seems to perk you up - it's something in the coffee that kinda interacts with the caffiene.

Anyone got any newer studies or opinions on this?


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## Mudge (Jun 16, 2002)

My dad told me about runners who used to drink coffee to open up thier blood vessels a bit (as well as people who would run in the mountains to affect thier ability to carry oxygen in the blood via plasma increase).

I'm a recovering coffee addict, I am now down to 1-3 cups a day, 2 on the average. I used to drink anywhere from 8-12 cups a day, sometimes more. The only thing I really did was switch from coffee in the can, to instant, this way its not as tempting to finish off a whole pot.


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## Dr. Pain (Jun 16, 2002)

My understanding is that the caffiene coumpounds in coffee  are "xanthines", the coffee itself having almost 500 constituents?? 


DP


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## Robboe (Jun 16, 2002)

Dp, i don;t know exactly how much difference it actually makes but i think they're called "methylxanthines"  and the other two are _theophylline_ and _theobromine_. (they're basically CNS stimulants.)

And i'm not entirely sure about the constituents, but i have read somewhere that there's 1500 chemicals found in coffee, out of which we're familiar with about 20 - half of which are carcinogens lol.

Mudge: "My dad told me about runners who used to drink coffee to open up thier blood vessels a bit"


I was under the impression that caffiene actually constricted blood flow?


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## Robboe (Jun 16, 2002)

J Intern Med 1991 Jun;229(6):501-4 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut  


Haemodynamic effects of coffee and caffeine in normal volunteers: a placebo-controlled clinical study.

Casiglia E, Bongiovi S, Paleari CD, Petucco S, Boni M, Colangeli G, Penzo M, Pessina AC.

Medical Clinic, University of Padova, Italy.[/b]

The acute haemodynamic effects of Italian coffee and 200 mg purified caffeine were investigated in 15 healthy non-coffee-drinkers compared to individuals who consumed placebo (highly decaffeinated coffee for regular coffee, and china bitter extract for caffeine). Before coffee and caffeine consumption and 30, 60, 90 and 120 min afterwards, rest flow and blood pressure were measured, and peripheral resistance in the arm was calculated; an echocardiogram was also performed before and 60 and 120 min after caffeine consumption. Both coffee and caffeine significantly decreased rest flow, and increased peripheral resistance. Systolic blood pressure increased by 10% and diastolic pressure increased by 5% for at least 2 h. No variation in heart rate or cardiac contractility was found. No effects were observed after placebo treatment. *It is concluded that Italian coffee and caffeine increase blood pressure via vasoconstriction.*

Publication Types: 
Clinical Trial 
Randomized Controlled Trial 

PMID: 2045756 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## Robboe (Jun 16, 2002)

Pharmacol Biochem Behav 1992 May;42(1):155-61 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut  


Action profiles of smoking and caffeine: Stroop effect, EEG, and peripheral physiology.

Hasenfratz M, Battig K.

Comparative Physiology and Behavioral Biology Laboratory, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, Zurich.

Twenty female regular cigarette smokers and coffee drinkers performed a numerical Stroop task in a 2 x 2 (caffeine x smoking) prepost crossover design. In the easier of the two different versions, caffeine and smoking reduced the reaction times (RT's) when given alone, but there was no additive effect. The Stroop effect itself (difference between RT's to numbers and RT's to symbols) was reduced by the two treatments only in the more difficult version, but the combination did not differ from the placebo condition. The physiological reactions to both treatments were additive, although the two reaction profiles were different. Smoking increased heart rate, blood pressure, finger vasoconstriction, respiratory frequency, EEG dominant alpha-frequency, and beta power and reduced respiratory amplitude, EEG delta and theta power. *Caffeine increased blood pressure, finger vasoconstriction*, motor activity, frontal EMG, and EEG theta power and decreased heart rate and EEG beta power.

PMID: 1528938 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## Robboe (Jun 16, 2002)

Experientia 1984 Nov 15;40(11):1218-23 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut  


The effects of caffeine on physiological functions and mental performance.

Battig K, Buzzi R, Martin JR, Feierabend JM.

Polygraphic monitoring of several physiological variables was done throughout an experiment investigating the effects of caffeine on mental performance. The experiment started with a mental maze learning task. Then the subjects were given the test beverages according to the group design (CC group (N = 16): 300 mg caffeine in decaffeinated coffee, DC group (N = 16): decaffeinated coffee, WW group (N = 8): warm water, and NB group (N = 8): no beverage). The experiment continued with a letter cancellation task which was followed by a second mental maze learning task. The caffeine treated subjects differed from the other groups by increased regularity of letter cancellation performance, as indicated by decreases in intraindividual variance. They also differed from the other groups by a slight but significant acrodermal vasoconstriction. No intergroup differences were obtained for mental maze learning, heart rate, respiration, muscle tension, and skin conductance. The results suggest therefore that the drug at this dose level improves behavioral routine and speed rather than cognitive functions and that the vegetative side effects are minimal.

PMID: 6500006 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## LAM (Jun 16, 2002)

never tasted coffee..can anyone explain what it tastes like ?  and don't say chicken !


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## ponyboy (Jun 17, 2002)

Funny, all that research TCD, I was always told that coffee was good after a long night of drinking because it caused vasodilation and got rid of your headache through increased blood flow.  

I guess those frat boy remedies don't hold a lot of water (and neither do I after a long night of drinking).


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## lina (Jun 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by LAM *_
> never tasted coffee..can anyone explain what it tastes like ?  and don't say chicken !



really? not even one sip?


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## LAM (Jun 17, 2002)

nope...it's was one of the few pieces of advice that I took from my parents, not to start the habbit.


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## Dr. Pain (Jun 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by LAM *_
> never tasted coffee..can anyone explain what it tastes like ?  and don't say chicken !





That's what one Lesbian frog said to the other: "Mmmmm, really does taste like chicken! " 


DP


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## Arnold (Jun 17, 2002)

I love coffee!


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## Robboe (Jun 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by ponyboy *_
> Funny, all that research TCD, I was always told that coffee was good after a long night of drinking because it caused vasodilation and got rid of your headache through increased blood flow.
> 
> I guess those frat boy remedies don't hold a lot of water (and neither do I after a long night of drinking).




No, coffee helps sober you up because it is a CNS stimulant and has the opposite effect of alcohol, which suppresses CNS activity.

I can't see it getting rid of your headache either, cause they both have diuretic effects and dehydration isn't gonna do too much for a hangover.


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## I Are Baboon (Jun 18, 2002)

How about posting in English what the hell this thread is trying to tell me about coffee????


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## Robboe (Jun 18, 2002)

IAB:



> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> It's basically suggesting that it's not just caffiene that seems to perk you up - it's something in the coffee that kinda interacts with the caffiene.




The reason i posted it was cause it got me thinking whether people using ECA would possibly benefit more from actually _"drinking"_ their caffiene as opposed to taking it in pill-form.


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## I Are Baboon (Jun 18, 2002)

*Re: Re: Coffee Drinkers!*



> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> IAB:
> 
> 
> ...




Ohhhhhh....gotcha.   

Someone of my limited edumacation has a hard time understand big words.  


Thanks TCD.


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## twarrior (Jun 19, 2002)

My boss showed me an article in a recent Mens' Health magazine, that coffee can inhibit muscular growth due to the caffeine blocks the body from utilizing calcium. IS there any research on that???


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## TJohn (Jun 19, 2002)

Coffee is my friend.

TJohn


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## Craft (Jun 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by TJohn *_
> Coffee is my friend.
> 
> TJohn



Apparently it's my friend also...


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## Mudge (Jun 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by twarrior *_
> My boss showed me an article in a recent Mens' Health magazine, that coffee can inhibit muscular growth due to the caffeine blocks the body from utilizing calcium. IS there any research on that???



Something like that, I have always  heard that it _strips_ calcium from the body, as well as minerals and vitamins. Its definately evil for older women, calcium supplements would probably be adviseable for people with bone density problems. I've been a milk drinker my whole life, I've never had a problem with breaking anything.

I wouldn't believe that large amounts of coffee are good for you though, which is why I dropped my intake down severely, besides the high blood pressure aspect.

I actually tested in the hypertension area until I dropped my caffeine intake by a large amount.


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## Robboe (Jun 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by twarrior *_
> My boss showed me an article in a recent Mens' Health magazine, that coffee can inhibit muscular growth due to the caffeine blocks the body from utilizing calcium. IS there any research on that???



Not sure about actual growth, but i know that caffiene can mess around with the calcium release at the synaptic cleft so can effect contractions.


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 4, 2003)

so drinking coffee after running for 30 minutes on an empty stomach is ok... ????


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## sawheet (Feb 4, 2003)

Coffe has Theopholyne in it. I think Theopholyne is a beta inhibiter that aids in dialation of the bronchial airways, too lazy to reasearch that.  I love my Starbucks every day!!


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 4, 2003)

whats that supposed to mean? i dont understand


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## Dero (Feb 4, 2003)

This I found,but it's from 95...

Could be too old???


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## Dero (Feb 4, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by sawheet *_
> Coffe has Theopholyne in it. I think Theopholyne is a beta inhibiter that aids in dialation of the bronchial airways, too lazy to reasearch that.  I love my Starbucks every day!!



Translation:
 He Loves to drink coffee bought at this coffee shop called Starbuck,which happens to be on the way to work EVERY DAY...
Take that from a guy that likes to hang off the side of a mountain!!!


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## askjoe (Feb 4, 2003)

I pound coffee every morning before I lift.  Without two cups in me my workouts suck.  I can really notice the difference.  Hey, it works and that's all that matters.  

Askjoe


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 4, 2003)

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=10292&highlight=caffeine

And I can't find the one form T-Mag with the four main points including compromised liver and skeletal glucose disposal!  (for 5 hours...length of the test) 

DP


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## sawheet (Feb 4, 2003)

Ocean girl starbucks! HELLO  j/jk.   Hey Dero I also love my Mountain bike, i just wish I could ride it down after I climb up!!!


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## Revenant (Feb 5, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Not sure about actual growth, but i know that caffiene can mess around with the calcium release at the synaptic cleft so can effect contractions.



Affect contractions how?


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 5, 2003)

found by w8.....


Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy 
just curious why you're against the coffee and gum?  



If I tell you, you will just argue with me. 

Butt you can be useful as you have been lately....I understand there is an article in the current T-Mag that I don't have time to review on caffiene......I would even feel indebted if you did a brief review in Diet and Nutrition.

Want to take is a step further, the late Dan Duchane told me that coffee interferes with insulin regulation (and to avoid it on a cut)via the ??? Randell, Randele, some spelling, cycle. It is something I have never found in physiology texts. Do Chicken Daddy's fish??

Here is a lead:

Caffeine inactivates the enzyme phosphodiesterase, allowing large amounts of glucose and triglycerides to flow into the blood stream. In this respect caffeine produces an effect similar to that of stress.


I want w8 to "do" the research on gum, the sugar alcohols associated with "an addicts" inability to control portions....and someone, has got to post some definitive research on "sweet tastes" contributing to hyperinsulinemia! (use that in your caffiene serch too) 


DP


TCD, I just got second hand info that the T-Mag article is devastating to coffee drinkers, and had to see for myself. 

http://www.t-mag.com/articles/214app.html

An excerpt:




1) Caffeine intake (in all of its forms) decreases whole body glucose disposal (carbohydrate uptake) by 15-30%.

2) Caffeine intake decreases skeletal muscle glucose disposal by 50%.

3) When consumed with a standard carbohydrate breakfast, caffeine decreases insulin sensitivity, leading to large increases in blood insulin. But even in the face of this insulin surge, blood glucose doesn't disappear at a normal rate. When the body can't take up carbohydrates properly (as when drinking coffee), it releases loads of insulin to help out. However, the coffee actually prevents the insulin from doing this job and you end up with high insulin and glucose. That, my friends, is the serum profile of the obese, type II diabetic.

4) Caffeine decreases insulin sensitivity for at least three hours (this is the duration of the longest study they've performed), but the true duration of the effect isn't known. I speculate that it's at least five hours, the half life of caffeine. 

DP


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## DaMayor (Feb 5, 2003)

Coffee alone doesn't seem to do it for me anymore. I believe one can easily build up a caffeine resistance. I have found that a pre-workout ECA+Cup o' Joe will dang near cause a nervous breakdown if you're not careful.


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## Robboe (Feb 5, 2003)

Just so you know, the research leading to those statements from T-mag used quite high doses (can't remember exactly what, but was comparable to a lot more than 1-2 cups of morning java).


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 5, 2003)

Dr. Pain, if i drink only one cup of coffee 16 oz. only in the morning before workout (or can be during my workout) on an empty stomach... and then after workout drink my protein shake: 5 carbs, 30 protein, 13 fat (added whipping cream to it) 
would  that keep building my muscles or what would happen?


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## DaMayor (Feb 6, 2003)

In other words, caffeine, whether consumed as traditional morning liquid or eca tabs, is detremental to glucose disposal, maintaining relationships, etc. , correct? So, in my case (goal=fat loss/lean gain) it would not be advisable to use caffeine in any form..correct?
I'm concerned because my doc told me that I was somewhat insulin resistant, or appeared to be based on a two hour glucose tolerance test, yada yada yada. I need as many factors in my favor as posible. 
And I'm sure a lot of folks would be happy if I didn't talk so much.


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## P-funk (Feb 6, 2003)

> So, in my case (goal=fat loss/lean gain) it would not be advisable to use caffeine in any form..correct?



I have read some studies stating that caffeine can decrease insulin sensitivity.  But I don't think any of the studies that I read were done on people who exercise regularly.  I think the tables are turned a little bit if you lift weights or are more I active.  I believe that the study was reffering to your run of the mill couch potato.  Even still I try and avoid coffee.  If I drink anything other than water I will drink 1 glass of green tea during the day.  I do however  think drinking a cup of coffee and then going to do cardio first thing in the AM on an empty stomach could be beneficial.


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## Robboe (Feb 6, 2003)

Caffiene increases short term (i.e a few hours) insulin resistance because it causes fat mobilising into the blood stream.

Anything that does this can cause a certain degree of insulin resistance.


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 6, 2003)

so you saying drinking coffee can speed your metabolism


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## Robboe (Feb 7, 2003)

Not really speed the metabolism, but it can help fat mobilisation and stimulates the catecholamines a bit.

It's not a permanent effect though.


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## Twin Peak (Feb 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Caffiene increases short term (i.e a few hours) insulin resistance because it causes fat mobilising into the blood stream.
> 
> Anything that does this can cause a certain degree of insulin resistance.



Yes, but OG, you need to realize that increasing IR within 3-4 hours of a carb meal, ain't a good thing.


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## Robboe (Feb 7, 2003)

Maybe.

Maybe not.

Having some degree of IR when dieting ain't always a bad thing.

It makes insulin's job of stopping fat burning more difficult.

I used to have a rather lagre email from Lyle McDonald on why this was so good, but i may have misplaced it. I shall have a looksy.


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## Robboe (Feb 7, 2003)

I just realised i have about 50 mails from Lyle in my inbox, so i'm too lazy to look now.

Ah well, you guys will have to just dream of what could have been...


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## Robboe (Feb 7, 2003)

Ok, you lot are in luck. By chance i clicked on this one. I can't be arsed to search the rest of them though.


"It stimultes fat storage and turns off
fat mobilization.  Being insulin resistant means thtt insulin doesn't do
its job as well, you get better fat mobilization.  Obese folks have tons of
fatty acids floating in their bloodstream because their fat cells have
become resistant to the anti-lipolytic effects of insulin.  As you get
leaner, among the zillion other adaptations, fat cells become more
sensitive to insulin: fat storage is turned on more readily, and
mobilization becomes harder. This is one of the reasons fat folks lose less
muscle than elan, they have more fatty acids available for fuel, so they
use those."

"But, the key aspect here is glucose metabolims.  Insulin drives glucose
into the fat cells and stimulates its use by the muscle cell.  Ok, so think
about dieting.  What do we actually want?  We want the muscle to be using
fatty acids for fuel.   We want glucose spared for teh brain (to limit
catabolism).  If the muscle is using glucose for fuel, that means that it's
NOT using fatty acids.  It also means less glucose available for the brain.
If hte muscle becomes insulin resistant, it isn't absorbing nor using
glucose, so it will use an alterante fuel (fatty acids).  that will also
spare glucose for the brain."


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## cornfed (Feb 7, 2003)

Damn, I love my 6 shots of espresso per sitting


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## DaMayor (Feb 7, 2003)

So the moral is, (and I'm ASKING here) for those with goals of fat reduction and lean mass preservation, as a general rule, it is better take in low GI foods and limit caffeine intake to pre-workout only..or entirely. 
And for those who are presently 'leaner', or more muscular, it is okay to use caffeine as a pre-workout kick. yeah?
(You'll have to excuse me if I sound dense, but I'm at work and I have to read and respond quickly.)


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 7, 2003)

how about herbal tea instead of coffee?


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## Revenant (Feb 7, 2003)

Are the stress hormones released by caffeine catabolic?


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## Robboe (Feb 8, 2003)

What stress hormones?

But yes, the fact that they are called "stress hormones", usually dictates that they are catabolic.


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## Revenant (Feb 8, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> What stress hormones?



Adrenalin is the only one I'm sure it releases.


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## Robboe (Feb 9, 2003)

I've never heard of adrenalin (or noradrenalin) as being refered to as stress hormones.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's the first time i've heard that.

Ah well, you learn something every day.


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## DaMayor (Feb 9, 2003)

I think by "stress" he is referring to the 'fight or flight' response....not sure how this would directly relate to caffeine. CD? Your turn.


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## Robboe (Feb 9, 2003)

Adrenalin and noradrenalin (provided they're stimulated in sufficient enough amounts) are both anti-catabolic cause they shift the body's burning to fat.

Anything that causes sufficient beta-adrenergic stimulation beyond a certain threshold causes this.

The type of hormone i'd think of when someone says "stress hormone" would be cortisol and the like because they break down proteins for glucose.

So now i'm thinking, if adrenalin and noradrenalin really are classed as stress hormones, whether all stress hormones are catabolic as i'd said.

It doesn't exactly matter much though.


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## Revenant (Feb 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Adrenalin and noradrenalin (provided they're stimulated in sufficient enough amounts) are both anti-catabolic cause they shift the body's burning to fat.
> 
> Anything that causes sufficient beta-adrenergic stimulation beyond a certain threshold causes this.
> ...



Hmm, yeah.

Do you think caffeine might still have a catabolic effect in an indirect way by raising blood pressure etc and therefore raising other stress hormones? I know I tend to feel edgy/antsy after too much caffeine.

I really don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just throwing up hypotheses based on my very limited knowledge.


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## Robboe (Feb 10, 2003)

I wouldn't worry too much about.

The stress of concern is probably more catabolic than coffee is.


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