# Stallone attacks Mexican border fence



## Goodfella9783 (Jan 5, 2007)

Article


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## oaktownboy (Jan 5, 2007)

it is crazy..building a wall will not solve the problem and certainly won't improve our relationship with Mexico


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## Vieope (Jan 5, 2007)

_Why dont you put mines? It is cheaper and way more effective. Is that allowed?_


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 5, 2007)

oaktownboy said:


> it is crazy..building a wall will not solve the problem and certainly won't improve our relationship with Mexico


Sorry bro ... yeah it will sovle many problems.  All the border states are plagued with illegal activity directly rusulting from open borders.  Hundreds die every year from gun fights, car chases, and crime.  A wall would end that all.  It needed built yesterday.

Any Mexican that bitches about a wall is a Mexican that puts the need of Mexican illegals over the needs of the American public ... and the Mexican gov is conpletely unconcerned about the impact.


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## Brachiisaurus (Jan 5, 2007)

Goodfella9783 said:


> Article




When I saw the thread name, I thought you meant he
*literally *attacked the fence.


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## oaktownboy (Jan 5, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> Sorry bro ... yeah it will sovle many problems.  All the border states are plagued with illegal activity directly rusulting from open borders.  Hundreds die every year from gun fights, car chases, and crime.  A wall would end that all.  It needed built yesterday.
> 
> Any Mexican that bitches about a wall is a Mexican that puts the need of Mexican illegals over the needs of the American public ... and the Mexican gov is conpletely unconcerned about the impact.



and you don't think they will find a way around the wall?


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## fufu (Jan 5, 2007)

Wtf, why would he be in the defence of Mexicans for us building a wall dividing OUR country. What the fuck is there to be in defense out? We aren't doing shit to the Mexicans. We're building a wall on our terratory.


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 5, 2007)

Brachiisaurus said:


> When I saw the thread name, I thought you meant he
> *literally *attacked the fence.


 
  He said, "screw wailing on meat"...


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## Vieope (Jan 5, 2007)

_Why dont you put a deep trench? It is better than building a wall. _


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## fufu (Jan 5, 2007)

Brachiisaurus said:


> When I saw the thread name, I thought you meant he
> *literally *attacked the fence.



lol, I thought the same thing.


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 5, 2007)

oaktownboy said:


> and you don't think they will find a way around the wall?


 
Maybe we could build a Moat along the rest filled with snakes, alligators, sharks, piranhas, pitbulls, bears and Chuck Liddell.


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## DOMS (Jan 5, 2007)

oaktownboy said:


> it is crazy..building a wall will not solve the problem and certainly won't improve our relationship with Mexico



You're right.  We should just kill them all.


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## Vieope (Jan 5, 2007)

_What about making the whole border an area of maximum security? So you could have a legal way to shoot people. Although I dont approve that. _


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## oaktownboy (Jan 5, 2007)

Goodfella9783 said:


> Maybe we could build a Moat along the rest filled with snakes, alligators, sharks, piranhas, pitbulls, bears and Chuck Liddell.



LMAO...


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 5, 2007)

oaktownboy said:


> and you don't think they will find a way around the wall?


Yup ... through the ARMED GATES.  With Visas, Passports and proper identification.  

Gotta be done


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## BigPapaPump68 (Jan 5, 2007)

DOMS said:


> You're right.  We should just kill them all.



Damn Right. We have to stop wasting our time on all of this shit that doesn't work.


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 5, 2007)

DOMS said:


> You're right. We should just kill them all.


 
Reasonable


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 5, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _Why dont you put a deep trench? It is better than building a wall. _



C'mon ... we got one but that reminds me of a stupid Mexican joke:
Why can't the Mexicans ever compete in the Olympics?  Cuz any of them that can run jump or swim are already over here ...


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## oaktownboy (Jan 5, 2007)

that's a good one BC...


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## Vieope (Jan 5, 2007)

_Maybe if you stop giving them jobs they might stop coming. But that wont happen because your country needs them. _


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## DOMS (Jan 5, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _Maybe if you stop giving them jobs they might stop coming. But that wont happen because your country needs them. _


We don't need that shit.  That's the beauty of capitalism: it self adjusts.


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## Vieope (Jan 5, 2007)

DOMS said:


> We don't need that shit.  That's the beauty of capitalism: it self adjusts.



_If all immigrants left in one day, I wonder what would happen to your economy. _


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## DOMS (Jan 5, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _If all immigrants left in one day, I wonder what would happen to your economy. _



Less of our stuff would be stolen, so we wouldn't need to buy as much.  So yeah, it would take a dip.


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## Vieope (Jan 5, 2007)

DOMS said:


> Less of our stuff would be stolen, so we wouldn't need to buy as much.  So yeah, it would take a dip.



_Almost 40% of US population is south american, in 50 years it will be over 60% _


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## DOMS (Jan 5, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _Almost 40% of US population is south american, in 50 years it will be over 60% _


40%?  I doubt that.  Can you back it up with a credible source?

But yes, their population will go up.  They why we need to stop them now.


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## Vieope (Jan 5, 2007)

DOMS said:


> 40%?  I doubt that.  Can you back it up with a credible source?


_Not really. Maybe what I saw was the total population of recent immigrants from all countries.

But I agree, you should worry, there are a lot of chinese people as well there.  _


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## P-funk (Jan 5, 2007)

I hate that fucking shit.  Why do people in Hollywood feel like they need to give their opinions on how the country should be run?  Stallone should shut the fuck up.  There is nothing more annoying then an actor who gets up there and makes an ass out of himself by talking politics.  I can't believe people even give a shit about what he says.


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## Brachiisaurus (Jan 5, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _*Not really*. Maybe what I saw was the total population of recent immigrants from all countries.
> 
> But I agree, you should worry, there are a lot of chinese people as well there.  _




I like this guy...
Instead of getting into an argument or scouring the internet
to try to make a point like most people, he just says no.


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 5, 2007)

P-funk said:


> I hate that fucking shit.  Why do people in Hollywood feel like they need to give their opinions on how the country should be run?  Stallone should shut the fuck up.  *There is nothing more annoying then an actor who gets up there and makes an ass out of himself by talking politics.*  I can't believe people even give a shit about what he says.


And always done to amp up some kind of production for the sole purpose of making a buck ... not cuz he cares about the issue.  HE should  stfu.


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 5, 2007)

oaktownboy said:


> that's a good one BC...



Thanks OTB ... BTW good to see you around again.  Hope we're still cool ...


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## DOMS (Jan 5, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _Not really. Maybe what I saw was the total population of recent immigrants from all countries.
> 
> But I agree, you should worry, there are a lot of chinese people as well there.  _


The Chinese aren't so bad.  I used to spend a lot of time in China town. They're pretty nice people.


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## Squaggleboggin (Jan 5, 2007)

Besides that, many immigrants choose not to learn English because they feel it will inhibit the propogation of their culture in their children. Well, so will moving out of your own country in the first place, right? It's a lot easier to maintain your culture if those around you are doing the same with the same culture. Even if not for this reason, most should at least attempt to learn English if they're going to move here. It may not be our official language, but it's still kind of annoying. Yet it's also what makes America, America. I obviously don't have a very strong opinion on this either way. I'm sick of debating myself. Someone jump in.


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 5, 2007)

I just returned from a trip to Mexico.  They have a running joke about how Santa Anna lost Texas but our shitty gov gave it back.  Now they're goin  for the rest of the south west.  I wasn't laughing


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## DOMS (Jan 5, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> Besides that, many immigrants choose not to learn English because they feel it will inhibit the propogation of their culture in their children. Well, so will moving out of your own country in the first place, right? It's a lot easier to maintain your culture if those around you are doing the same with the same culture. Even if not for this reason, most should at least attempt to learn English if they're going to move here. It may not be our official language, but it's still kind of annoying. Yet it's also what makes America, America. I obviously don't have a very strong opinion on this either way. I'm sick of debating myself. Someone jump in.



It's more than just the language.  Where ever they settle in, it turns into a shit hole just like Mexico.


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## Squaggleboggin (Jan 5, 2007)

DOMS said:


> It's more than just the language.  Where ever they settle in, it turns into a shit hole just like Mexico.



Honestly, that's not surprising.

Say a town quickly becomes about 20% Mexican. If these Mexicans don't share a language with the rest of the town, they can probably only get jobs that are sub-par. If they don't get jobs, they'll steal (hey, they still need to eat). So some of the other inhabitants move away. More Mexicans come. The gap between the original inhabitants and the immigrants widens, and the town is taken over mostly by people without the proper communication skills or means of obtaining and holding good jobs. So now you essentially have a bunch of people who live with a low standard of living all in the same area. People are bound to go to extremes to eat and find shelter, etc. Thus another ghetto is formed.


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 5, 2007)

If I lived in Mexico, I'd want to move to this bitch too.


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## DOMS (Jan 5, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> Honestly, that's not surprising.
> 
> Say a town quickly becomes about 20% Mexican. If these Mexicans don't share a language with the rest of the town, they can probably only get jobs that are sub-par. If they don't get jobs, they'll steal (hey, they still need to eat). So some of the other inhabitants move away. More Mexicans come. The gap between the original inhabitants and the immigrants widens, and the town is taken over mostly by people without the proper communication skills or means of obtaining and holding good jobs. So now you essentially have a bunch of people who live with a low standard of living all in the same area. People are bound to go to extremes to eat and find shelter, etc. Thus another ghetto is formed.



You reasoning is sound, but you're overthinking it.  Just look at Mexico (or any Latin American country).  The standards of living are far below that of the US.  Even the less desirable US cities (such as Compton) are far better than most cities in Central and South America.


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## The Monkey Man (Jan 5, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _If all immigrants left in one day, I wonder what would happen to your economy. _



It would soar because all the illegal laborers would be
replaced by taxpaying natives who would then be able
to get off welfare because there may be some new jobs in town
And they would buy property and spend their money here
upon retirement


And whatever happened to training the national guard on the border???

I say Marine Corp snipers should be on rotation to shoot border jumpers
Then we should make the current resident illegals (and their family's)
drag the bodies back into Mexico on the way out
(within a time limit of course, for fear of being shot themselves)


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## DOMS (Jan 5, 2007)

The Monkey Man said:


> And whatever happened to training the national guard on the border???
> 
> I say Marine Corp snipers should be on rotation to shoot border jumpers
> Then we should make he illegals (and their family's)
> ...


Well said!


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## Squaggleboggin (Jan 5, 2007)

DOMS said:


> You reasoning is sound, but you're overthinking it.  Just look at Mexico (or any Latin American country).  The standards of living are far below that of the US.  Even the less desirable US cities (such as Compton) are far better than most cities in Central and South America.



Yeah, but I was basically trying to reason through it for the sake of not having a racially-motivated agenda to agree with you. I mean, I don't actually have a racially-motivated agenda to agree with you, but I also didn't want it to seem like it. I'm going to stop now.


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 5, 2007)

The Monkey Man said:


> It would soar because all the illegal laborers would be
> replaced by taxpaying natives who would then be able
> to get off welfare because there may be some new jobs in town
> And they would buy property and spend their money here
> upon retirement



I don't mean to generalize, but all people on welfare are fat lazy slobs, they aren't taking any landscaping jobs when there is a nice cushy paycheck coming their way for doing nothing.


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## The Monkey Man (Jan 5, 2007)

DOMS said:


> Well said!



We shouldn't have been so hasty to let them hang Saddam Hussein...

We could have hired him as a subcontractor
he would have whipped this whole immigration
thing into shape in 8 weeks


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## DOMS (Jan 5, 2007)

The Monkey Man said:


> We shouldn't have been so hasty to let them hang Saddam Hussein...
> 
> We could have hired him as a subcontractor
> he would have whipped this whole immigration
> thing into shape in 8 weeks



He did have on the job experience.  And the Kurds would have given him a good reccomendation.


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## joesmooth20 (Jan 5, 2007)

P-funk said:


> I hate that fucking shit.  Why do people in Hollywood feel like they need to give their opinions on how the country should be run?  Stallone should shut the fuck up.  There is nothing more annoying then an actor who gets up there and makes an ass out of himself by talking politics.  I can't believe people even give a shit about what he says.



100% Agreed, he's not as bad as George Clooney, Sean Penn or Alec Baldwin though. I am not going to see his new film now because of that shit.


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## oaktownboy (Jan 5, 2007)

"Almost 40% of US population is south american"

there's no way that's right..with that stat whites would almost be the minority


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## oaktownboy (Jan 5, 2007)

P-funk said:


> I hate that fucking shit.  Why do people in Hollywood feel like they need to give their opinions on how the country should be run?  Stallone should shut the fuck up.  There is nothing more annoying then an actor who gets up there and makes an ass out of himself by talking politics.  I can't believe people even give a shit about what he says.



that's nothing...u ever seen Alec Baldwin on tv? that man needs to have a foot shoved down his throat


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## Arnold (Jan 5, 2007)

P-funk said:


> I hate that fucking shit.  Why do people in Hollywood feel like they need to give their opinions on how the country should be run?  Stallone should shut the fuck up.  There is nothing more annoying then an actor who gets up there and makes an ass out of himself by talking politics.  I can't believe people even give a shit about what he says.



the next thing you know these damn actors will want to run for office!


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## P-funk (Jan 5, 2007)

Prince said:


> the next thing you know these damn actors will want to run for office!


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## Strongwarrior (Jan 6, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> Sorry bro ... yeah it will sovle many problems.  All the border states are plagued with illegal activity directly rusulting from open borders.  Hundreds die every year from gun fights, car chases, and crime.  A wall would end that all.  It needed built yesterday.
> 
> Any Mexican that bitches about a wall is a Mexican that puts the need of Mexican illegals over the needs of the American public ... and the Mexican gov is conpletely unconcerned about the impact.



This is so true, many people want to say ''Come on, a wall? This is the year 2007, a wall sounds like something from the stone age'' but the truth is, a very tall wall would help a LOT! It would cut down illegal immigration drastically! It's a simple solution that would definetly work, it would not stop all the illegal immigration, but it would cut down by at least 90%, at least the illegal immigration coming from mexico...Because this problem needs to stop!
Another thing that would help the border, aside from from a wall that protects the entire border with Mexico, would be thousands of armed guards, and new laws that make it ok to shoot and kill illegal immigrants that try to climb the wall over...


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## Strongwarrior (Jan 6, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> I just returned from a trip to Mexico.  They have a running joke about how Santa Anna lost Texas but our shitty gov gave it back.  Now they're goin  for the rest of the south west.  I wasn't laughing


Tell me about it man, it's sick! Thank God I don't leave near the border or in south California...That would drive me nuts!!!...Somone needs to end this non-sense!


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## Strongwarrior (Jan 6, 2007)

I've heard that if this problem doesn't stop, in about 10 years, 60% of the American population will be mexican!!!! This is a digrace!


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## goandykid (Jan 6, 2007)

Strongwarrior said:


> I've heard that if this problem doesn't stop, in about 10 years, 60% of the American population will be mexican!!!! This is a digrace!



And where did you hear this?


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## Strongwarrior (Jan 6, 2007)

goandykid said:


> And where did you hear this?



I think on tv or something, I think it's probably an exageration, it'll be more like 50% mexican, the rest would be Whites and blacks...Sad but true


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## fletcher6490 (Jan 6, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> C'mon ... we got one but that reminds me of a stupid Mexican joke:
> Why can't the Mexicans ever compete in the Olympics?  Cuz any of them that can run jump or swim are already over here ...



   

I've never heard that before.


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## KelJu (Jan 6, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuHZcHkqbSI


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## SYN (Jan 6, 2007)

Clearly the situation should just be handed over to chuck norris.


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## SYN (Jan 6, 2007)

Strongwarrior said:


> This is so true, many people want to say ''Come on, a wall? This is the year 2007, a wall sounds like something from the stone age'' but the truth is, a very tall wall would help a LOT! It would cut down illegal immigration drastically! It's a simple solution that would definetly work, it would not stop all the illegal immigration, but it would cut down by at least 90%, at least the illegal immigration coming from mexico...Because this problem needs to stop!
> Another thing that would help the border, aside from from a wall that protects the entire border with Mexico, would be thousands of armed guards, and new laws that make it ok to shoot and kill illegal immigrants that try to climb the wall over...



So their want to come to a free country where they can have the ability to work hard, make decent money, and provide their families with good lives makes them lesser than us, so they should die; for coming here and doing the jobs we feel we are too good to do, or are just simply too lazy? And if they do build a super-fence, who's going to be the ones building it. Certainly not us.


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 6, 2007)

SYN said:


> So their want to come to a free country where they can have the ability to work hard, make decent money, and provide their families with good lives makes them lesser than us, so they should die; for coming here and doing the jobs we feel we are too good to do, or are just simply too lazy? And if they do build a super-fence, who's going to be the ones building it. Certainly not us.


WTF do you care who builds it for?  It needs built ... by whomever.  By your statement you obviously are in favor of not restricting the flow of illegals over the border with a wall ...  ... why is that?


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## SYN (Jan 6, 2007)

I don't feel that they should be looked down upon or hated for wanting themselves, or their families to have better lives than what their country can offer them.


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 6, 2007)

The last thing we need in this country is more f***kin people. Especially ones who aren't even supposed to be here.


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## goob (Jan 6, 2007)

Goodfella9783 said:


> The last thing we need in this country is more f***kin people. Especially ones who aren't even supposed to be here.



That's what they said about Italians two centuries ago........


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## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

SYN said:


> I don't feel that they should be looked down upon or hated for wanting themselves, or their families to have better lives than what their country can offer them.



I look down on them and hate they because they live a shithole life style and are trying to bring it here.


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## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

goob said:


> That's what they said about Italians two centuries ago........


Yeah, and look at things now.  Roving gangs of Italians.  Italian writing on all of our products and signs.  Tons of italians living on welfare.  Not to mention that Italians are responsible for a higher than normal amount of crime.


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## P-funk (Jan 6, 2007)

oaktownboy said:


> that's nothing...u ever seen Alec Baldwin on tv? that man needs to have a foot shoved down his throat



lol...Alec Baldwin of FAG (Film Actors Guild).....lol....team america is the greatest movie ever!


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## goob (Jan 6, 2007)

DOMS said:


> Yeah, and look at things now.  Roving gangs of Italians.  Italian writing on all of our products and signs.  Tons of italians living on welfare.  Not to mention that Italians are responsible for a higher than normal amount of crime.



Actually, I made that comment up to wind up Goodfella for a laugh, but now that you mention it......


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## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

P-funk said:


> lol...Alec Baldwin of FAG (Film Actors Guild).....lol....team america is the greatest movie ever!



That is one hell of a funny movie.  A lot of detail went into every set.  For instance, on the clip that you linked to, the palm tree fronds are made out of real money.

I also like Sean Penn's reaction to the movie.  What a duche bag.


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## Strongwarrior (Jan 6, 2007)

DOMS said:


> Yeah, and look at things now.  Roving gangs of Italians.  Italian writing on all of our products and signs.  Tons of italians living on welfare.  Not to mention that Italians are responsible for a higher than normal amount of crime.



Italians doing more crime? I disagree!
We need to stop ILLEGAL immigration, period! I mean, it's ridiculous, the borders are open! I think the next 911 type of attack will be from terrorists coming from the mexican border, and then we will be forced to build a wall protected by thousands of armed guards. I would help build that wall, I would do it for free...


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## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

Strongwarrior said:


> Italians doing more crime? I disagree!



I thnk your sarcasm meter is broken. 

And for the record, I'm Irish/Italian.


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## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

Strongwarrior said:


> We need to stop ILLEGAL immigration, period! I mean, it's ridiculous, the borders are open! I think the next 911 type of attack will be from terrorists coming from the mexican border, and then we will be forced to build a wall protected by thousands of armed guards. I would help build that wall, I would do it for free...



Oh, and like I've said before, a wall of bullets would be cheaper.


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## goob (Jan 6, 2007)

Strongwarrior said:


> Italians doing more crime? I disagree!
> We need to stop ILLEGAL immigration, period! I mean, it's ridiculous, the borders are open! I think the next 911 type of attack will be from terrorists coming from the mexican border, and then we will be forced to build a wall protected by thousands of armed guards. I would help build that wall, I would do it for free...




er... organised crime, RICO etc, mafia.   To point out the tip of the iceberg.


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 6, 2007)

goob said:


> That's what they said about Italians two centuries ago........


 
It's not two centuries ago anymore. This generation can do something about it since theirs did not.


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## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

goob said:


> er... organised crime, RICO etc, mafia.   To point out the tip of the iceberg.



All long since gone.  And RICO is a law, not a crime.


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## goob (Jan 6, 2007)

DOMS said:


> I thnk your sarcasm meter is broken.
> 
> And for the record, I'm Irish/Italian.



Ha ha Doms, you get someone everytime.....


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 6, 2007)

goob said:


> er... organised crime, RICO etc, mafia. To point out the tip of the iceberg.


 
What % of US crime do you think the Italian mafia makes up?


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## goob (Jan 6, 2007)

Goodfella9783 said:


> What % of US crime do you think the Italian mafia makes up?



I was just kidding.  Would'nt have a clue.


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## Strongwarrior (Jan 6, 2007)

Goodfella9783 said:


> What % of US crime do you think the Italian mafia makes up?



Exactly! Good point goodfella..
When it comes to crime in America, blacks and mexicans are number one, this is proven by statistics


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## Squaggleboggin (Jan 6, 2007)

I thought the Italian mafia generally kept to killing each other anyhow. Or perhaps this is just in the movies. Anyway, I would think it'd be far easier for Mexicans to immigrate illegally than it was for Italians.


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 6, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> I thought the Italian mafia generally kept to killing each other anyhow. Or perhaps this is just in the movies. Anyway, I would think it'd be far easier for Mexicans to immigrate illegally than it was for Italians.


 
Yeah they try to glorify it in that way. 

I wonder if Mexican immigrants will eventually become as accepted as the Italians, Irsish, ect. and flourish in ways those two groups have.


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## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

Goodfella9783 said:


> Yeah they try to glorify it in that way.
> 
> I wonder if Mexican immigrants will eventually become as accepted as the Italians, Irsish, ect. and flourish in ways those two groups have.



God, I hope not.


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## Squaggleboggin (Jan 6, 2007)

DOMS said:


> God, I hope not.



You hope they don't flourish and become accepted? Would you rather they drag everyone down as you propose and then become hated by everyone? I must say I'm a bit confused.


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## Strongwarrior (Jan 6, 2007)

DOMS said:


> God, I hope not.



I agree...I don't want them accepted, why can't they just stay in Mexico?


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 6, 2007)

SYN said:


> I don't feel that they should be looked down upon or hated for wanting themselves, or their families to have better lives than what their country can offer them.



*Warning* I'm getting on my 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 here:


Seperate your moral perspective of these people and their poor fortunes from our needs as a country.  Pity is a respectable reaction to the observation of the downtroden ... but please keep your priorties straight.  This country ... your country as in the one you're going to hand off to your kid(s) some day ... is in crises and you are an American.   As long as people like you do not use your minds to research the issues and instead continue to make surface judgements and *vote* that way it will stay in crises.  You and your country will continue sufer.  I'm not try to flame you SYN nor am I trying launch an attack on you ... I'm just trying to illustrate to you something I feel yo've not looked at in full color yet.  Don't take this personal.

Consider that the land mass these people flea from is mineral rich.  The climate and soil they run away from produces in abundance.  In Mexico there is no lack of investment capital.  Why is their life fucked?  Because they made it that way ... why should you foot the bill?  You wanna pay out to help the poor ... help the 10 poorest states in America.  Send all the resources being sent to Mexico to those states.   

In several of the South American countries the 2nd largest income for the country ... below drug importation ... is the money sent there from illegal workers here.

*Here are some statistics from the Los Angeles Times:*

40 percent of all workers are working for cash and not paying taxes. Why would they want to be legal and pay taxes? They would be able to start bringing the rest of their families to the USA.


75 percent of people on L.A.'s most-wanted list are *illegal aliens*.


Over two-thirds of all births are to *illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal* whose births were paid for by the taxpayers.


Nearly 25 percent of all inmates in California detention centers *are here illegally.
* 

Over 300,000 illegals are living in garages.


The FBI reports *half *of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegals from south of the border.


Nearly 60 percent of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.


Of the 10 million people in Los Angeles County, 5.1 million speak English and 3.9 million speak Spanish.


Less than 2 percent of illegals are picking crops but 29 percent are on welfare.


Over 70 percent of the U.S. annual population growth (over 90 percent of California, Florida and New York) are from immigration.


* 29 percent* of inmates in the federal prisons are illegal aliens.  
The lifetime fiscal impact (taxes minus services used) for the average adult Mexican immigrant is a _negative_.


They also send about $15 *billion *back to Mexico to assist their families and prop up the corrupt Mexican government that keeps most of its citizens in poverty. How about a revolt in their own country! 

It cost Los Angeles *$276 million in welfare costs* for 100,000 children of illegal aliens.

THese stat's would be consistant with *EVERY CITY THEY POPULATE!!!!*

SOURCE

Okay done


----------



## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> You hope they don't flourish and become accepted? Would you rather they drag everyone down as you propose and then become hated by everyone? I must say I'm a bit confused.



They are going to drag us down, whether we want them to or not.  

Like I've said before: 

"Mexico achieved its independence from Spain just 18 years after the US got its independence from the British, and what have they done?

The US is the world's only super power and Mexico's greatest achievements are its exports: people and drugs."

They aren't going to get better.  And they aren't going to assimilate either.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

Strongwarrior said:


> I agree...I don't want them accepted, why can't they just stay in Mexico?



They don't like it because Mexicans live there.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> <snipped for brevity>
> 
> In Mexico there is no lack of investment capital.  Why is their life fucked?  Because they made it that way ... why should you foot the bill?  You wanna pay out to help the poor ... help the 10 poorest states in America.  Send all the resources being sent to Mexico to those states.
> 
> ...



I like you.


----------



## Squaggleboggin (Jan 6, 2007)

Building the wall would obviously not improve our relations with Mexico. As stated above, $15,000,000,000 annually is sent to Mexico, which in turn helps the Mexican government. Do we really need yet another country hating us? Or would it not matter because their economy wouldn't continue to ween off ours and would perhaps result in another revolution or collapse if it is dependent on that money for growth?


----------



## BoneCrusher (Jan 6, 2007)

DOMS said:


> I like you.































Does it mean then that in your eyes I am elivated from my status as a liberal?


----------



## Dale Mabry (Jan 6, 2007)

Here is a solution.

Send all the slobs on welfare to Mexico.  For every welfare case sent over there, we take a Mexican who wants to work and go through the full process of becoming a citizen.  Everyone else goes, P-Funk as well.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> Does it mean then that in your eyes I am elivated from my status as a liberal?



No, but I still like you.  Besides, I'm sure there's some medicine that can help you with that.


----------



## BoneCrusher (Jan 6, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> Building the wall would obviously not improve our relations with Mexico. As stated above, $15,000,000,000 annually is sent to Mexico, which in turn helps the Mexican government. Do we really need yet another country hating us? Or would it not matter because their economy wouldn't continue to ween off ours and would perhaps result in another revolution or collapse if it is dependent on that money for growth?



Brother right after 9/11 there were countles images all over the internet of people in Mexcio dancing in the streets celebrating our misery.  They already hate us ... they just want our money.


----------



## Squaggleboggin (Jan 6, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> Brother right after 9/11 there were countles images all over the internet of people in Mexcio dancing in the streets celebrating our misery.  They already hate us ... they just want our money.



Of this I was unaware. It kind of sucks being an American sometimes. Everyone else from everywhere else thinks they know everything about you when they're the most ignorant, foolish people in the world - so ignorant and foolish that they can't see themselves as being such.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> Building the wall would obviously not improve our relations with Mexico. As stated above, $15,000,000,000 annually is sent to Mexico, which in turn helps the Mexican government. Do we really need yet another country hating us? Or would it not matter because their economy wouldn't continue to ween off ours and would perhaps result in another revolution or collapse if it is dependent on that money for growth?



Why should we give a shit what Mexico thinks of us?  The simple fact is that they want to run all over us, and, if we do the logical thing, we won't let them.  Then they'll hate us for it.

Besides, they've made it clear that they believe that California, New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas belong to them and they want to get it back by being squatters.

The only response that is going to work is a wall of bullets.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> Of this I was unaware. It kind of sucks being an American sometimes. Everyone else from everywhere else thinks they know everything about you when they're the most ignorant, foolish people in the world - so ignorant and foolish that they can't see themselves as being such.


Simply put, the "have nots" will always hate the "haves." The only way that everyone would like us would be if we were to give away all of our money and land.


----------



## BoneCrusher (Jan 6, 2007)

DOMS said:


> No, but I still like you.  Besides, I'm sure there's some medicine that can help you with that.


Drugs are for pussies.  I'll just go rip the heads of of a few green-peace people and use them as nightlights on my driveway


----------



## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> Drugs are for pussies.  I'll just go rip the heads of of a few green-peace people and use them as nightlights on my driveway


Your post reminded me of this.


----------



## Strongwarrior (Jan 6, 2007)

DOMS said:


> They don't like it because Mexicans live there.



Good point, they must hate Mexico, they want to be in gringoland...I remember when the illegal mexicans had the nerve to protest on the streets...What a nerve! They truly believe that California and Texas belong to them, they also have an anti ''gringo'' agenda...The whole thing makes me sick!


----------



## BoneCrusher (Jan 6, 2007)

DOMS said:


> Your post reminded me of this.


That was frickin hillarious ... first thing of his I really liked AND related too.


----------



## Strongwarrior (Jan 6, 2007)

DOMS said:


> I thnk your sarcasm meter is broken.
> 
> And for the record, I'm Irish/Italian.


Oh Thank God, I felt insulted for a moment...I'm 100% Italian...


----------



## Squaggleboggin (Jan 6, 2007)

DOMS said:


> Why should we give a shit what Mexico thinks of us?  The simple fact is that they want to run all over us, and, if we do the logical thing, we won't let them.  Then they'll hate us for it.
> 
> Besides, they've made it clear that they believe that California, New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas belong to them and they want to get it back by being squatters.
> 
> The only response that is going to work is a wall of bullets.



We should care mostly because I don't particularly enjoy being the world's bull's eye. Not that it'll change depending on what we do in this situation, but I'd also prefer not to add fuel to the fire. Besides, I'd rather not have a country that borders mine pissed off at me if I could help it. But it seems like I can't anyways.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> We should care mostly because I don't particularly enjoy being the world's bull's eye. Not that it'll change depending on what we do in this situation, but I'd also prefer not to add fuel to the fire. Besides, I'd rather not have a country that borders mine pissed off at me if I could help it. But it seems like I can't anyways.



When you're number one, you're _always_ the bullseye.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> That was frickin hillarious ... first thing of his I really liked AND related too.



"Sometime I have to go out and have fun at someone else's expense."


----------



## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

Strongwarrior said:


> Good point, they must hate Mexico, they want to be in gringoland...I remember when the illegal mexicans had the nerve to protest on the streets...What a nerve! They truly believe that California and Texas belong to them, they also have an anti ''gringo'' agenda...The whole thing makes me sick!



And it gets even better.  The rights that the chewies are demanding here in the US are rights that foreigners in Mexico are not allowed to have.  If you're an American living in Mexico, you're not even allowed to demonstrate.


----------



## BigPapaPump68 (Jan 6, 2007)

DOMS said:


> Your post reminded me of this.



lmao


----------



## SYN (Jan 6, 2007)

DOMS said:


> I look down on them and hate they because they live a shithole life style and are trying to bring it here.



no they live a shithole life style and are trying to escape it.

I think we should kill off all the rapists and murderers and fucking drug pins etc, and all the other dirtbags that don't deserve to live, then there will be more room for the people that are trying to do constructive things with their lives. And we wont have a problem with crouding our country.  Then all the doctors and painters and musicians etc, can hire the mexicans to cut their grass, because they're not going to do the taxes.


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 6, 2007)




----------



## DOMS (Jan 6, 2007)

SYN said:


> no they live a shithole life style and are trying to escape it.



They may be trying to escape it, but they just end up brining it here.  You live in the in the north-east someone, don't you?  How many Mexican neighborhoods have you seen? Me, I grew up in L.A. I've seen plenty of them.  And they all look like most of Mexico.   

No to mention all of the crimes that they commit here.



SYN said:


> I think we should kill off all the rapists and murderers and fucking drug pins etc, and all the other dirtbags that don't deserve to live, then there will be more room for the people that are trying to do constructive things with their lives. And we wont have a problem with crouding our country.  Then all the doctors and painters and musicians etc, can hire the mexicans to cut their grass, because they're not going to do the taxes.



It's not a matter of crowding, it's a matter of lowering the standard of living from US levels down to the Mexican levels.


----------



## BoneCrusher (Jan 6, 2007)

The shit they bring in here is not going to be resolved until we build that wall.


----------



## Vieope (Jan 6, 2007)

_So are you guys worried because they might take your job? 
_


----------



## BoneCrusher (Jan 6, 2007)

And the walls should start from birth ...


----------



## BoneCrusher (Jan 6, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _So are you guys worried because they might take your job?
> _


----------



## oaktownboy (Jan 6, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> And the walls should start from birth ...



a little sickening


----------



## Witchblade (Jan 6, 2007)

Boohoo, mexicans. Try marocans.


----------



## The Monkey Man (Jan 6, 2007)

P-funk said:


> lol...Alec Baldwin of FAG (Film Actors Guild).....lol....team america is the greatest movie ever!





Funyy how you never hear spouting off from more educated celebz

When was the last time you heard Tommy Lee Jones, or James Woods on a soap box?


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 6, 2007)

Witchblade said:


> Boohoo, mexicans. Try *marocans*.


What's that?


----------



## Strongwarrior (Jan 6, 2007)

DOMS said:


> And it gets even better.  The rights that the chewies are demanding here in the US are rights that foreigners in Mexico are not allowed to have.  If you're an American living in Mexico, you're not even allowed to demonstrate.



What?? That's so messed up, what a double standard...I call for massive deportation of the illegal mexicans...


----------



## Strongwarrior (Jan 6, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> *Warning* I'm getting on my
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow...This is so disturbing...Only in America...I bet any other country in the world wouldn't put up with this insanity


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 7, 2007)

Strongwarrior said:


> Wow...This is so disturbing...Only in America...I bet any other country in the world wouldn't put up with this insanity


That does look bad, why do immigrants think we owe them anything.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

min0 lee said:


> That does look bad, why do immigrants think we owe them anything.



It's not all immigrants. It's pretty much just the Mexicans.

I've been around a lot them: Mexican, Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Korean, Russian, Vietnamese, German, and Spanish. Just to name a few.  It's only the Mexicans that think that the US owes them anything.

The only the thing the US owes the Mexicans is a boot in the ass.


----------



## Vieope (Jan 7, 2007)

_They might deport all the illegal americans. _


----------



## Todd Shisler (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> It's not all immigrants. It's pretty much just the Mexicans.
> 
> I've been around a lot them: Mexican, Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Korean, Russian, Vietnamese, German, and Spanish. Just to name a few.  It's only the Mexicans that think that the US owes them anything.
> 
> The only the thing the US owes the Mexicans is a boot in the ass.



that is not true.. mexicans do alot for our country... do you like tomatoes and lettuce on youre hamburger.. because if it wasnt for mexicans you couldnt.


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 7, 2007)

Todd Shisler said:


> that is not true.. Mexicans do alot for our country... do you like tomatoes and lettuce on you're hamburger.. because if it wasn't for Mexicans you couldn't.


Who would mow our lawns? 
Wash our dishes? 
Make my Pizza?


Can imagine all those rich people braking their nails. It would be absolute bedlam!


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _They might deport all the illegal americans. _



If they here illegially, they're _*not*_ Americans.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Todd Shisler said:


> that is not true.. mexicans do alot for our country... do you like tomatoes and lettuce on youre hamburger.. because if it wasnt for mexicans you couldnt.



True, but as much as I like lettuce on my burger, I don't like GTA on my car.


----------



## Goodfella9783 (Jan 7, 2007)

I'd exchange lettuce and tomato for the elimination of illegals anyday.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Goodfella9783 said:


> I'd exchange lettuce and tomato for the elimination of illegals anyday.



"Elimination of illegals"?  I like the way you're thinking...


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 7, 2007)

Let me make this interesting.....your both of Italian ancestry if I am not wrong...it wasn't too long ago they said the same about Italians.

Discuss.



By the way my spouse is half Italian.


----------



## Todd Shisler (Jan 7, 2007)

min0 lee said:


> Who would mow our lawns?
> Wash our dishes?
> Make my Pizza?
> 
> ...



I thought that that was why we brung the blacks here.


----------



## Todd Shisler (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> True, but as much as I like lettuce on my burger, I don't like GTA on my car.



whats is "gta"


----------



## Todd Shisler (Jan 7, 2007)

min0 lee said:


> Let me make this interesting.....your both of Italian ancestry if I am not wrong...it wasn't too long ago they said the same about Italians.
> 
> Discuss.
> 
> ...




the hairy half?


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 7, 2007)

Todd Shisler said:


> I thought that that was why we brung the blacks here.


What are you?


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 7, 2007)

Todd Shisler said:


> the hairy half?


It has a spicy meatballs!


----------



## Todd Shisler (Jan 7, 2007)

min0 lee said:


> What are you?



american

you?


----------



## Goodfella9783 (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> "Elimination of illegals"? I like the way you're thinking...


 
I meant in the sense of booting them out of the country. But whatever floats your boat.


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 7, 2007)

Todd Shisler said:


> american
> 
> you?


The same.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

min0 lee said:


> Let me make this interesting.....your both of Italian ancestry if I am not wrong...it wasn't too long ago they said the same about Italians.
> 
> Discuss.
> 
> ...



They said the same thing, but they didn't have the real numbers.  Sure, there was the mafia, but they were a handful of people.  The vast majority of Italians were decent people.  But look at how many 10s of thousands (perhaps more) Mexicans are in gangs here in the US.

There also was a torrent of Italians coming in like the chewies.  There are an estimated 20,000,000 illegal Mexicans here in the US with 600,000 coming across the border every year.

Lastly, the Italians assimilated well.  I mean, is there Italian on everything in the stores? Are there several Italian language radio stations or television stations in every major market?  It there Italians on any street signs?


----------



## Goodfella9783 (Jan 7, 2007)

min0 lee said:


> Let me make this interesting.....your both of Italian ancestry if I am not wrong...it wasn't too long ago they said the same about Italians.
> 
> Discuss.
> 
> ...


 
Italians have done a helluva lot for this country and learned english pretty quick if I'm not mistaken. They basically became Americans pretty fast.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Goodfella9783 said:


> I meant in the sense of booting them out of the country. But whatever floats your boat.



hahahahah.


----------



## Todd Shisler (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> They said the same thing, but they didn't have the real numbers.  Sure, there was the mafia, but they were a handful of people.  The vast majority of Italians were decent people.  But look at how many 10s of thousands (perhaps more) Mexicans are in gangs here in the US.
> 
> There also was a torrent of Italians coming in like the chewies.  There are an estimated 20,000,000 illegal Mexicans here in the US with 600,000 coming across the border every year.
> 
> Lastly, the Italians assimilated well.  I mean, is there Italian on everything in the stores? Are there several Italian language radio stations or television stations in every major market?  It there Italians on any street signs?



maybe the mexicans have a secret plan to take over the usa


----------



## Vieope (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> If they here illegially, they're _*not*_ Americans.



_I mean from there, they might send all americans back to America and no drugs for you anymore. _


----------



## Todd Shisler (Jan 7, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _I mean from there, they might send all americans back to America and no drugs for you anymore. _



do you like the mexicans being here


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _I mean from there, they might send all americans back to America and no drugs for you anymore. _


I can live with that.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Todd Shisler said:


> do you like the mexicans being here


He's from, and lives in, Brazil.


----------



## Goodfella9783 (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> They said the same thing, but they didn't have the real numbers. Sure, there was the mafia, but they were a handful of people. The vast majority of Italians were decent people. But look at how many 10s of thousands (perhaps more) Mexicans are in gangs here in the US.
> 
> There also was a torrent of Italians coming in like the chewies. There are an estimated 20,000,000 illegal Mexicans here in the US with 600,000 coming across the border every year.
> 
> *Lastly, the Italians assimilated well*. I mean, is there Italian on everything in the stores? Are there several Italian language radio stations or television stations in every major market? It there Italians on any street signs?


 
That's the word I was looking for.


----------



## Todd Shisler (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> He's from, and lives in, Brazil.



so he is a mexican then


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Todd Shisler said:


> maybe the mexicans have a secret plan to take over the usa



There's nothing secret about it.


----------



## Todd Shisler (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> There's nothing secret about it.



wow, see I told you so.

we should bomb them before its to late


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Todd Shisler said:


> wow, see I told you so.
> 
> we should bomb them before its to late



I'm in 100% agreement.


----------



## Vieope (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> I can live with that.



_So most americans dont like canadians, think europe is old, america is at war with the arab world and you can still find time to hate south americans.  

Is this really how most americans think?
_


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _So most americans dont like canadians, think europe is old, america is at war with the arab world and you can still find time to hate south americans.
> 
> Is this really how most americans think?
> _


The difference is that Mexicans are an immediate threat that stands a chance of ruining America.

Take Brazil for example.  It's one of the most affluent Latin American countries, yet boasts slums the size of cities.  This sort of crap just doesn't exist in the US and I don't want it to.


----------



## Vieope (Jan 7, 2007)

Todd Shisler said:


> do you like the mexicans being here



_Well if I were american I would be upset with the mexicans that dont work, get drunk and steal things. But I would be glad that some of them are working and helping your country. But there is no point in arguing this since you cant deport all of them anymore. _


----------



## goob (Jan 7, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _So most americans dont like canadians, think europe is old, america is at war with the arab world and you can still find time to hate south americans.
> 
> Is this really how most americans think?
> _



Perhaps why it seems 90 % of the world hate America? 
Ever been to Europe?  Won't find too many friends over there outside of the UK and it's a damn shame. And thats not even mentioning the Arabs and the asians.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _Well if I were american I would be upset with the mexicans that dont work, get drunk and steal things. But I would be glad that some of them are working and helping your country. But there is no point in arguing this since you cant deport all of them anymore. _



We just need a politician who has the guts (or the opinion polls to tell him) to get all 20,000,000 illegals the hell out.

This will become more of an issue in the next few years.  More than the war, more than the economy,  more than anything else.  The political groups are going to come to understand that whichever group promises to get them the fuck out, will win an election (and elections for years to come).  So that should motivate them to do it.

How much greater will things be here with 20,000,000 less people leeching off the welfare system, causing crime, and just pissing on everything?

I'll be a great time.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

goob said:


> Perhaps why it seems 90 % of the world hate America?
> Ever been to Europe?  Won't find too many friends over there outside of the UK and it's a damn shame. And thats not even mentioning the Arabs and the asians.



The US is the alpha male.  Of course they don't like us.  _They_ will never be happy unless _they_ are on top.


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> They said the same thing, but they didn't have the real numbers. Sure, there was the mafia, but they were a handful of people. The vast majority of Italians were decent people. But look at how many 10s of thousands (perhaps more) Mexicans are in gangs here in the US.
> 
> There also was a torrent of Italians coming in like the chewies. There are an estimated 20,000,000 illegal Mexicans here in the US with 600,000 coming across the border every year.
> 
> Lastly, the Italians assimilated well. I mean, is there Italian on everything in the stores? Are there several Italian language radio stations or television stations in every major market? It there Italians on any street signs?


I don't think they will ever be accepted, same as the blacks.
I agree on the street signs, the Asians kill us here with that crap.


----------



## Todd Shisler (Jan 7, 2007)

min0 lee said:


> I don't think they will ever be accepted, same as the blacks.
> I agree on the street signs, the Asians kill us here with that crap.



you look asaian in youre pik


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

min0 lee said:


> I don't think they will ever be accepted, same as the blacks.



I could have so much fun with this, but I'm not going to muddy the waters with a different argument.



min0 lee said:


> I agree on the street signs, the Asians kill us here with that crap.



Really? Like Chinese and such?  In L.A., you won't find any of that.  You'll only find English and Mexican on the signs.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Todd Shisler said:


> you look asaian in youre pik





No body knows what min0 is.  Not even min0's gender.

Just let it go, man...


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 7, 2007)

Todd Shisler said:


> you look asaian in youre pik


Regardless of what I am it still is not right.

I take no sides in the race game, I think humans all suck ass.


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> I could have so much fun with this, but I'm not going to muddy the waters with a different argument.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Like Chinese and such? In L.A., you won't find any of that. You'll only find English and Mexican on the signs.


I'll take some pictures of some neighborhoods here in NYC, you will not see a word of english here. 
It's pissing every american off.


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> No body knows what min0 is. Not even min0's gender.
> 
> Just let it go, man...


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

min0 lee said:


> I'll take some pictures of some neighborhoods here in NYC, you will not see a word of english here.
> It's pissing every american off.



I would press for legislation that permitted only English on public sign. 

Hmmmmmm.

You know what, I think I'm going to do that here.  Maybe it'll start a trend across the US.

Next week begins the knowledge gathering phase.


----------



## Vieope (Jan 7, 2007)

goob said:


> Perhaps why it seems 90 % of the world hate America?
> Ever been to Europe?  Won't find too many friends over there outside of the UK and it's a damn shame. And thats not even mentioning the Arabs and the asians.



_I dont know what happened to America. Twenty years ago, everyone loved americans. The land of free and hardworking people, where you could dream. Now people everywhere dont like you that much. _


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> I would press for legislation that permitted only English on public sign.
> 
> Hmmmmmm.
> 
> ...


They are now starting to do that now, NYC is so PC it's a joke.


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 7, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _I dont know what happened to America. Twenty years ago, everyone loved americans. The land of free and hardworking people, where you could dream. Now people everywhere dont like you that much. _


It could be because of the current administration, but me thinks there was always a bit of resentment.


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 7, 2007)

Every immigrant I know of has something bad to say about America.....that pisses me off.
Love it or Leave it!


----------



## SYN (Jan 7, 2007)

if we kick out the illegal aliens then the Home Depot will go out of buisiness


----------



## min0 lee (Jan 7, 2007)

The scary thing is once I worked at a place where the Boss mentioned getting rid of one guy and replacing him with 3 Mexicans......it's a scary thought.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _I dont know what happened to America. Twenty years ago, everyone loved americans. The land of free and hardworking people, where you could dream. Now people everywhere dont like you that much. _


You need to go back and look at the facts.

Ever since the US became a super power, there have been plenty of people who hated us.  This increased even more after the US became the _*only*_ super power.


----------



## Little Wing (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> We just need a politician who has the guts (or the opinion polls to tell him) to get all 20,000,000 illegals the hell out.
> 
> This will become more of an issue in the next few years.  More than the war, more than the economy,  more than anything else.  The political groups are going to come to understand that whichever group promises to get them the fuck out, will win an election (and elections for years to come).  So that should motivate them to do it.
> 
> ...



i think it is important to know who exactly is in this country and why. there is a reason they are called illegals and it shouldn't be tolerated. i think they should be able to come here if they want but legally. the border needs to be harder to cross and not just because of mexicans. if you can get a group of 20 mexicans into the US without being detected there pretty much isn't anything you couldn't get in. kaboom.


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## Squaggleboggin (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> I would press for legislation that permitted only English on public sign.
> 
> Hmmmmmm.
> 
> ...



Based on what? The US doesn't even have an official language. Certainly you couldn't argue this case based on population - you've all but proven that the population of Spanish-speaking people in the US is the one most quickly growing.


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## Squaggleboggin (Jan 7, 2007)

Wanting to bomb Mexico is showing the exact same ignorance that the radical groups in the Middle East show in wanting to kill all Americans. How many innocent lives would be lost? Who are we to say they've done nothing as a country since their revolution?

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with you, but these are nonetheless legitimate comments.

So if Mexicans take over California, what does it matter? Isn't it supposed to break away from the US with its next major earthquake, predicted to happen relatively soon? A little sarcasm there, of course.

So who here knows the President's Cabinet members personally? Probably no one. Even if you did, how would you know what they plan to do. Did it ever occur to you that they don't release all of their plans to the public - that - and this is a crazy idea - they might need to be kept secret for at least a little while? I hate it when people bash the president based on what he says or does. The American public hardly has a clue as to what really happens. Our opinions on what should be done can be formed only from an incomplete picture - the only person with the complete picture is the president, and perhaps some of his upper staff members. Not to be so naive as to think that TV is real life, but if you watch the show '24,' I'm sure it's at least mildly realistic in many respects.


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## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> Based on what? The US doesn't even have an official language. Certainly you couldn't argue this case based on population - you've all but proven that the population of Spanish-speaking people in the US is the one most quickly growing.



Just because it's defacto, doesn't mean it's not the official language.


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## Squaggleboggin (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> Just because it's defacto, doesn't mean it's not the official language.



Except it actually isn't the official language. The USA doesn't have one.


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## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> Wanting to bomb Mexico is showing the exact same ignorance that the radical groups in the Middle East show in wanting to kill all Americans. How many innocent lives would be lost? Who are we to say they've done nothing as a country since their revolution?



I was being facitious about bombing Mexico. I wasn't when it comes to killing them as they try to cross the border.



Squaggleboggin said:


> So if Mexicans take over California, what does it matter? Isn't it supposed to break away from the US with its next major earthquake, predicted to happen relatively soon? A little sarcasm there, of course.



I have family there.  And, just as importantly, there are _Americans_ there, living on _American_ soil, who would like to keep an _American_ standard of living and not sink to the shit hole Mexican standard of living.




Squaggleboggin said:


> So who here knows the President's Cabinet members personally? Probably no one. Even if you did, how would you know what they plan to do. Did it ever occur to you that they don't release all of their plans to the public - that - and this is a crazy idea - they might need to be kept secret for at least a little while? I hate it when people bash the president based on what he says or does. The American public hardly has a clue as to what really happens. Our opinions on what should be done can be formed only from an incomplete picture - the only person with the complete picture is the president, and perhaps some of his upper staff members. Not to be so naive as to think that TV is real life, but if you watch the show '24,' I'm sure it's at least mildly realistic in many respects.



None of that means that I'm not entitle to my opinion or simple wishful thinking.

You must also admit that it's been decades and the government (ruled both both parties) *hasn't done a* *god damn fucking thing about stopping the flow of chewies into this country!*


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## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> Except it actually isn't the official language. The USA doesn't have one.



Up until 1990, we didn't need to have one.  So we need to make English the official language.


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 7, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> Based *on what? The US doesn't even have an official language.* Certainly you couldn't argue this case based on population - you've all but proven that the population of Spanish-speaking people in the US is the one most quickly growing.


WTF?!?!???? What language are you typing in? What language did your docter speak to you in when he slapped your ass after you were born? GET A GRIP HERE ... as long as this liberal bullshit "give them a break they are just trying to improve their lives" is allowed to pre-empt the needs of your life right in this moment someone else will need to attend the funeral of his or her daughter or son killed as a direct result of no border protections.   If your a liberal and your heart is bleeding for the people who want a better life .. than let it be the people not yet on the following list.  Let it be for the people saved from enormous personal tragedy by the existence of effective border protection ??? in short a wall.  Before you post again about why the Mexicans should be worried over READ the entire remaining part of this post.  It shows how the Mexican government HELPS crime continue here in the border   states.  If you live in a state not on the border and think it???s no big deal then picture your mother, sister, or wife on this list.

Most people will be too lazy to read it all but I'll post it anyway ... 

 [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*CRIME VICTIMS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS*[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There is an enormous number of Americans who have been harmed by the criminals who pass through the nation's open borders. For that reason, this section can only provide a symbolic tribute to the many unnamed victims who have been killed, raped, robbed, crippled and otherwise personally violated. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It is particularly shocking that even in post-911 America, the government still refuses to protect the people in the most basic ways from the world's terrorists and criminals who enter at will to do as they please. The borders remain a sieve while the human carnage from crime perpetrated from illegal aliens continues to mount. In another stunner of INS malfeasance, the agency often cannot even manage to deport dangerous criminal aliens when they reach the ends of their prison terms. [/FONT]

*[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NEW ITEMS ARE ADDED AT THE BOTTOM [/FONT]*

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  ???   The murder of *Kris Eggle* (see the separate page of collected articles), a park ranger in the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument in southern Arizona on August 9, 2002, was little noted by the media, although the press has paid considerable attention to the deaths of illegal aliens on the border. By contrast, Ranger Eggle was shot down by Mexican drug dealers who were using Organ Pipe as a route for their smuggling. Only 28 when he was murdered, Eggle was a valedictorian and an Eagle Scout who joined the National Park Service because he loved the outdoors. (Organ Pipe is considered to be the most dangerous of the national park system: 200,000 illegal aliens and 700,000 pounds of drugs were intercepted at the park in 2001.) The Eggle family is determined that his death will not be forgotten by working for real border control, including a Washington press conference with Tom Tancredo in the fall of 2002. The Eggles have a family website, www.kriseggle.org, to inform interested parties about what they are doing.     [/FONT]
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???   In a particularly tragic example of government inattention to illegal aliens who have run amock, one of the snipers who terrorized the Washington DC area for three weeks in October 2002 was a foreign national who had been apprehended the previous year. As a stowaway, he was required by law to be immediately deported back to his home country. Instead, the INS overroad the Border Patrol's designation and released John Lee Malvo upon the unsuspecting American public. Had immigration law been followed by the INS, there would have been no two-man hit team and it is likely that there would have been no devastating series of murders. As columnist Michelle Malkin has observed, the INS releases dangerous alien criminals all the time.  [/FONT]
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  ???   *David Nadel* was a familiar community activist in Berkeley, California, and owned the popular Ashkenaz dance club that featured eclectic music, such as zydeco, cajun, klezmer and the blues. In 1996, he was murdered in the club by an apparent Mexican illegal alien, Juan Rivera Perez, whom Nadel had earlier ejected for harassing other patrons. Perez was in Ashkenaz as part of an English as a Second Language program graduation party. Police believe Perez escaped to Mexico, which is famously unhelpful in extraditing violent criminals. Despite the outcry from law enforcement, victims and the press, our government does not insist on normal compliance in law enforcement from Mexican authorities. [/FONT]
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  ???   In another case of justice denied, the murderer of Phoenix high school student *Tanee Natividad* merely crossed the border into Mexico to escape law enforcement. A local television station was able to track down the murderer in a bar just a few miles across the border without much effort. Max LaMadrid has no reason to hide because the Mexican government actually helps violent criminals escape American justice. According to Arizona Attorney General Janet Napolitano, action by the Mexican supreme court making it more difficult to extradite criminals has "created an incentive for people to flee into Mexico as a safe harbor." At one time, Mexico would not extradite criminals who might be subject to the death penalty; the Mexican court recently extended this "protection" to any Mexican who might receive a life sentence, thereby giving a free pass to rapists, kidnappers and child molesters. In fact, the investigating reporter found 100 cases of violent criminals from the Phoenix area escaping into Mexico in just the last few years. Meanwhile, the grieving family of 16-year-old Tanee gets no justice ??? like thousands of others in the southwest. [/FONT]
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  ???   At the left is shown *Darlene Squires*, the distraught mother of a disabled teenager, one of two girls who were raped on October 24, 2002, by three members of a Salvadoran street gang located in Somerville, Massachusetts. Aged 17 and 14, both victims are deaf and one has cerebral palsy. Mrs. Squires believed that the attacks were a retaliation against her family because her husband confronted the young men after they had harassed the Squires son. Later reports indicated the men arrested for the crime were illegal aliens.Law enforcement officials were concerned about increased violence from the MS-13 gang which was "believed to have originated in part with soldiers and their families who left El Salvador." Local residents estimate the gang has more than 100 members in their community. An update a few months after the Squires crime showed that the gang problem in the community has only gotten worse.  [/FONT]
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  ???   The lives of many law enforcement officers have been lost at the criminal hands of violent illegal aliens. One such was *David March*, a Los Angeles County Sheriff who was killed when he pulled over a car for a routine traffic stop. The driver was a dangerous Mexican drug dealer, Armando Garcia, who had been deported twice and has a long history of violent crime. After shooting Sheriff March twice in the head, Garcia was able to escape and is believed to be in Mexico, where officials refuse to send him back for trial. Garcia is also wanted for two attempted murders. At least one member of Congress, Adam Schiff, has called for President Bush to insist that Mexico extradite violent felons. Furthermore, the Attorneys General for all 50 states wrote to Ashcroft and Secretary of State Colin Powell to demand action on the extradition issue. [/FONT]
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  ???   Compared with many on this page who suffered violent crime, *Barbara Vidlak* got off easy with just identity theft. Still, you wouldn't want her problems. The rip-off of her Social Security number by an illegal immigrant has caused Barbara's phone to be turned off, loss of health insurance for her two kids as well as extra money out of pocket from the 34-year-old Omaha resident for credit checks and other expenses, such as lost time at work. She also had to act as a detective to track down the culprit who has filled her life with turmoil and stress. The reporting on this crime is notable for its relentless sympathy for the perpetrator, even when the damage to the victim is obvious for all to see. Rather than note how illegal immigration is not a victimless crime, reporter Cindy Gonzalez quotes an "immigrant rights" advocate who says that "In some ways, both women are victims." [/FONT]
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  ???   Eighteen-year-old *Tricia Taylor* of Detroit was in court in December 2002 to hear the plea of the illegal alien who caused her to lose both legs above the knees. Jose Carcamo was driving under the influence (.08 percent blood alcohol level) and speeding when he drove over a curb and smashed Taylor into a wall. One report stated that Carcamo has had 17 violations since 1995. Another noted that he was drag racing at the time of the crash. It is agreed that the car was travelling between 50 and 75 miles per hour on a street posted for 25 mph. Taylor's companion Noah Menard suffered a fractured skull and collarbone, as well as requiring eight pins to reconstruct his mangled elbow. The INS had twice begun deportation proceeding against Carcamo to return him to El Salvador, but regrettably did not follow through. Carcamo will be out of jail in a few years, but Tricia Taylor faces a lifetime of pain and disability because of another failure of the INS to remove a dangerous alien. Incidentally, drinking to excess and then driving is celebrated in Hispanic cultures rather than condemned. 
*Sentencing Update:* On January 13, 2003 Jose Carcamo was sentenced to 3-5 years in prison. Four months after the crash, Tricia Taylor still must take pain medication, antibiotics, anti-depressants and sleeping pills. Chronic bone infection means she may yet lose more of her right leg. Carcamo sent a note of apology to Taylor and Menard, but misspelled the names. She responded, "It hurts me every time I see him. He acts like he's sorry, but you'd think he would know our names." She is not forgiving, either: "I have my whole life with no legs ... I'm only 18. He gets no forgiveness." [/FONT]
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  ???   Another American stymied in the pursuit of justice for a murdered child is *Ron Cornell*, shown here with a car-hood portrait of his murdered son Joey. His son's killer, Gonzalo Villalobos, escaped to Mexico and, like so many others, is being protected by the Mexican government's refusal to extradite. At one point, Villalobos' whereabouts in El Salvador were known precisely, but there is no extradition cooperation with that nation either. (After the devastation of Hurricane Mitch in 1998, the United States sent $110 million in disaster relief aid to El Salvador.) This article includes a rogues gallery of mug shots of fugitives safe in Mexico.    [/FONT]
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  ???   In June 2002, these four residents of Whidbey Island in Washington were the shooting victims of a Jamaican national who was evidently frustrated that he had ruined his plans to get a green card through marriage to an American woman. Preston Dean "Hugh" Douglas angered his girlfriend Holly Swartz because he had sexually abused her seven-year-old daughter. When Holly moved herself and her child into her mother's house, Douglas reacted by shooting Holly, her mother Marjorie Monnett (the mother of eight children), Marjorie's son Bruce and Bruce's girlfriend Sierra Klug. Holly and Marjorie were killed, and Bruce and Sierra survived. Douglas shot and killed himself. Reportedly Douglas was in the country illegally, although he was working as a bouncer at a local Chinese restaurant. [/FONT]
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  ???   On the day after New Years 2003, six-year-old *Jose Soto* was riding his bike around the parking lot near his parents' apartment house when he was struck and severely injured by a man backing out in a red truck. Witnesses were shocked when the man stopped and pulled the child from under the truck and roughly threw him aside before speeding off. At this writing, Jose is in critical condition in a Houston hospital and the perpetrator is believed to be on his way to Mexico, if not already there. The man's name was released a few days later: *Jose Ines Morales*. As noted above, once a criminal reaches Mexico, he has effectively eluded the law permanently, since America's southern neighbor refuses to extradite, as a matter of policy, criminals who may be punished according to the severity of their crimes. [/FONT]
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  ???   *Sister Helen Chaska was murdered* in late summer 2002 by being strangled with her rosary beads ??? the beads were found imbedded in her neck. She was also raped, as was another nun who accompanied Sister Helen during walking prayers. Both women were in Klamath Falls, Oregon, doing missionary work when the crimes occurred. Her accused murderer is Maximiliano Esparza, who is in the United States illegally, and was convicted in 1988 of robbery and kidnapping in Los Angeles. He was sentenced to six years in prison, was released in 1992 and was on probation until 1995. By law, this man should have been deported to Mexico after his release in 1992. Instead, the INS allowed him to remain in the United States and commit even more heinous crimes. In this article, Michelle Malkin notes the Esparza crime and other examples of INS standard procedure of "catch and release" in violation of law. 
*Sentencing Update:* On April 8, 2003, Esparza was sentenced to life in prison without parole. The sentence was a deal worked out with the prosecution to avoid a trial with the possibility of the death penalty. Klamath County District Attorney Ed Caleb said that he wanted to avoid forcing the other nun who had been attacked to testify. In addition, Caleb sent a bill to the Mexican consulate for the cost of investigating and prosecuting the case. Not much chance of getting any money, but it is a reasonable gesture.    [/FONT]
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  ???   It has been a decade since Oregon State Police Trooper *Bret Clodfelter* was murdered by an illegal alien, but the crime has not been forgotten. Trooper Clodfelter of Klamath Falls had arrested three Mexican men for being drunk and disorderly, then offered them a ride and was murdered for his generosity. The prosecuter sought the death penalty, but one dissenting juror meant Francisco Manzo-Hernandez got life in prison instead. To add to the tragedy, Clodfelter's widow Rene committed suicide a year after her husband was murdered. The couple had been married just over a month when the murder occurred.   [/FONT]
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  ???   *Officer Sheila Herring* was lost to a bullet from an illegal alien in an early morning altercation at a Norfolk bar on January 16. The accused man, Mario Roberto Keen, a citizen of Jamaica, had reportedly shot a man in the bar after which the police were called. When several officers arrived, Keen opened fire and shot Officer Herring who died later in surgery. Keen was shot and killed at the scene. He had been sentenced to five years in prison in 1990 for selling cocaine and was later deported. Keen attempted to re-enter the United States in New York in 1997, but was reportedly barred from entering. It is not known when Keen succeeded in entering the U.S. But back to Sheila Herring: from all accounts she was an excellent police officer and loved her job. She had been a cop in Detroit for ten years before moving to Virginia. She was 39 and had an 18-year-old daughter. [/FONT]
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  ???   *Angie Morfin* of Salinas, California, testified before the House Immigration Subcommittee in June of 1999 about the murder of her 13-year-old son by an illegal alien gangster. Her boy Ruben was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time and was shot down by a Mexican who escaped to Mexico. Her testimony also noted how the Latino community in her town wants immigration laws enforced, particularly to deal with the problem of illegal alien gangs that are responsible for a lot of violent criminal activity. Since her son's murder, Angie Morfin has spoken out about the need for more Border Patrol agents and other enforcement to make her community safer so that no other mothers must suffer the loss that she has. [/FONT]
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  ???   Thirteen-year-old *Laura Ayala* went missing in March 2002, taken just a few feet from in her home in Houston. At this writing, there is no child and no body, although blood identified as being hers was identified in 2002 in the car of men believed to be connected with her abduction. Because of some evidence that she had been taken to Mexico, part of the search has been there. One complication was Houston's policy of "sanctuary" which disallows police from investigating a person's citizenship status. Illegal alien *Walter Alexander Sorto* was in police hands for traffic tickets but could not be deported because of the sanctuary policy: he is believed to be connected in Laura Ayala's disappearance which occurred several months after the ticket problem. Houston police office John Nickell testified before Congress (2/27/02) about how sanctuary laws inhibit the effectiveness of beat cops to deal with criminals and prevent crime.     [/FONT]
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  ???   The danger on the highways from truckloads of illegal aliens in border areas has been increasing drastically. It is not unusual for a van full of illegal aliens to speed down the road in the wrong direction to avoid American law enforcement, causing death and injury to both American citizens and foreigners. One of the worst examples (shown at the left) took place near San Diego June 25, 2002, where seven people were killed and at least 31 were injured when a van tried to avoid a border checkpoint by turning the lights off and speeding against oncoming traffic in the wrong lane. Larry S. Baca of Albuquerque was killed when his Ford was smashed head-on by the immigrant van and knocked airborne. On March 10, 2003, two men were killed and 20 people were injured when a stolen truck loaded with illegal aliens tried to outrun American authorities.   [/FONT]
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  ???   *Dana Pevia* was kidnapped from her North Carolina school bus stop in 1999 when she was only 11. In March, 2003, she was able to escape her captivity in Mexico and visit the American Consulate in Guadalahara. The officials there contacted the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and through them reached Dana's mother Wanda was contacted. Dana returned home a few days later with her two children. The apparent kidnapper Hector Frausto, a "Mexican construction worker," was arrested in North Carolina on March 27. Dana was evidently forcibly kept captive by his family in Mexico for much of that time. She was only able to get away because she had the help of a sympathetic neighbor. The unasked question is why the obvious suspect's family in Mexico was not investigated four years ago. Was the unhelpful Mexican legal system being obstructionist yet again? [/FONT]
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  ???    *The Marti family* as pictured here during a happy moment no longer exists. Sean, just 24 years old, and his daughter Sage, 5 months old, were killed February 27 by a drunk illegal alien who was driving the wrong way on Highway 84 in Idaho. Natalie Marti was in a coma after the head-on crash and returned slowly to waking consciousness over a period of weeks. With coma victims, full mental functioning and memory can take much longer. She had attended college in Boise while she and Sean managed an apartment complex. 
Edgar Vasquez Hernandez, who worked as a house framer, was charged with two counts of vehicular manslaughter and one count of aggravated driving. Court records show Hernandez was intoxicated at the time of the crash. Hispanics are statistically more likely to drive drunk than other groups, and motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death up to age 24 among Latinos. 
*Sentencing Update:* On June 10, 2003, Hernandez pleaded guilty to two counts of vehicular manslaughter and one charge of aggravated driving under the influence. He will be sentenced on September 18. 
*More Attention Called for Criminal Aliens (July 19, 2003):*  The Marti case was used as an example of crime that could have been prevented if there were adequate enforcement against illegal alien criminals. The _Idaho Statesman_ reported that in February 2002, federal agent J. Kent Nygaard wrote a memo to immigration officials warning that American citizens would die as a result of irresponsible policies regarding dangerous felons.    [/FONT]
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  ???    * Maria Suarez* was only 16 and living in Los Angeles when she was sold for $200 to a 68-year-old man, Anselmo Covarrubias, who presented himself in the neighborhood as a brujo, a magician. He raped and abused her, utilizing brainwashing where he said he had powers from the devil, as he had done to many Mexican girls held in virtual slavery before her. A neighbor bludgeoned Covarrubias to death, and Suarez hid the weapon but was not directly involved in the killing. Still, she served 22 years in prison, and is slated to be released within a year. 
*Update, 12/16/03:* Maria Suarez is about to be paroled after serving just slightly less than her sentence (25 years to life) and will reportedly be deported at that time. [/FONT]
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  ???   *Phoenix Police Officer Robert Sitek* was shot four times 4/12/03 during a traffic stop altercation with an illegal alien that became violent. Sitek and his partner David Thwing were on routine patrol when a red truck cut off their squad car, and when the officers stopped the truck the driver began shooting. Officer Sitek was in cardiac arrest by the time he reached the hospital and lost a considerable amount of blood. Shooter Francisco A. Gallardo was a "Mexican citizen who had recently completed a seven-year prison term for aggravated assault." He had been deported after his release but had returned to Arizona. Gallardo was shot and killed as he tried to escape by Officer Thwing. 
*Medical Update, June 5, 2003: * Officer Rob Sitek has had a slow but gradually successful recovery from injuries that surely would have been fatal to most. At nearly two months after the shooting, he has pulled out of a three-week coma, is still unable to walk but is determined to do so and eventually return to work. [/FONT]
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  ???   *David Lazarus* is a familiar name to the readers of the San Francisco Chronicle business pages, and the reporter appears occasionally on television news shows like This Week in Northern California on the local PBS affiliate. As a successful middle class professional, he probably never thought he would become the victim of an illegal alien, but that assumption would have been very wrong indeed. Mr. Lazarus recounts his experience of identity theft by a Jamaican national Derrick Davis, who used Lazarus' social security number to get nine credit cards and several jobs. Lazarus called his troubles a "royal pain," one that "has made my own life miserable." But David Lazarus is lucky because his own reporting skills helped him investigate the case, unlike most of the nearly 700,000 Americans hit by identity theft every year. While Lazarus has the pleasure of seeing the perp behind bars, many victims have to work for years to get their lives straightened out, if they ever do. [/FONT]
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  ???   *Marc Atkinson* was just 28 when he was shot and killed in a 1999 ambush by an illegal alien from Mexico. Officer Atkinson was a five-year veteran of the Phoenix Police Force, and was survived by his wife Karen, infant son and two siblings. The killer, Felipe Petrona-Cabanas, had around a pound of cocaine in his car when apprehended with two other Mexican nationals. The three came from a farming area in the state of Guerrero near Acapulco, and said they came to the United States to work but couldn't find any. A notable detail in the case is how an armed citizen, Rory Vertigan, came to the aid of the shot officer and helped apprehend the Mexicans, who certainly would have escaped over the border if they could have.     [/FONT]
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  ???   *Christina Long's* body was found face down in a creek in Greenwich, Connecticut, after she was killed by asphyxiation during rough sex. Christina, aged 13, met her killer, Saul Dos Reis, through the internet in a chat room, an aspect of the case which has gotten it a lot of media attention, unlike the criminal's immigration status. Dos Reis attempted to give himself an alibi by emailing the girl and apologizing for not meeting her the night of the death. In fact, he strangled the sixth-grader and then dumped the body not far from his home. The killer is a Brazilian national who evidently overstayed his visa by several years and legally should be deported when he completes his sentence. He was convicted of manslaughter in mid-April 2003. This article includes a video clip about the case.  
*Sentencing Update:* At the sentencing, Saul Dos Reis stated, "I have not had a single night of sleep when I don't wake up drenched in sweat." Judge Patrick L. Carroll III responded, "That time for mercy was the evening your victim died in your hands." The Judge gave Dos Reis 30 years in prison, the maximum for manslaughter.    [/FONT]
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  ???   *Randy Burris* died a hero, saving the lives of a young mother and her baby, as Randy pushed Heather Carlson's baby carriage from the path of a car careening out of control. A resident of Clarke County Georgia, Randy was the father of three children and had struck up a conversation with Heather about her dog. The murderous car was driven by a drunk illegal alien, Ricardo Arriaga-Gutierrez, whose blood alcohol level was three times the legal limit even several hours after the accident. After running Randy Burris down, Arriaga-Gutierrez fled the scene, hid the car in another county and went to a party to establish an alibi. Midway into the case, the prosecutor requested that bail be revoked because of the flight risk to Mexico, and the judge complied. Arriaga-Gutierrez must serve at least 90 percent of his 15-year sentence for vehicular homicide under current state guidelines, plus three years for leaving the scene of the accident and driving without a license. He is legally required to be deported at the time of his release. [/FONT]
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  ???   *Officer Kenneth Collings* of the Phoenix Police Department was killed in 1988 during the arrest of two robbery suspects at a local bank when one opened fire. One of the robbers, Ismael Conde, was quickly arrested but the other, Rudy Romero, escaped to Mexico. Romero was caught in southern Mexico in 2000 and brought back to stand trial. The Arizona Attorney General's Office credits help from the Phoenix Police Department, the FBI, the Attorney General for the Republic of Mexico, and the Mexican Federal Agency of Investigation ??? a rare and welcome act of extradition from our southern neighbor. In March 2003, Romero was sentenced to 98 years in state prison. [/FONT]
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  ???   Unlike many on this page, *Norman Wallace* did not die at the hands of an illegal alien. The thirty-year-old MBA student from Youngstown, Ohio, was hard working and full of promise, according to all accounts. One of eleven children, he was active in his church as a young man. After getting a BA in Business Administration from Youngstown State University, he worked as a portfolio manager and managing partner of a food distribution company. At the Weatherhead School program at Case, he had recently been elected president of the Black MBA Student Association. 
    Norman Wallace was killed by naturalized citizen Biswanath Halder, who immigrated from India as a 28-year-old adult in 1969 and became a citizen 11 years later. Halder was arrested after a shooting rampage of seven hours in which several people on the campus of Case Western Institute of Technology were shot. The picture of the shooter emerging is of a person with serious psychological problems. Even though Halder had a degree in engineering, he began receiving Social Security checks in the late 1980s for his "disabilities." He sued several companies for not hiring him, starting in 1990. He sued Case University over his website allegedly being deleted by a Case employee, but the suit was recently thrown out of court, a possible motive for the rampage. On May 29, the Cuyahoga County grand jury issued a 338-count indictment against Halder, including charges of murder and kidnapping: he faces the death penalty.    
    As of this writing, the questions that should be asked have not: was Halder's "loner" rage an amplification of failed adjustment to American society, even after decades of living here? In 1993, he wrote, "The only thing I had in my mind when I created the Asian Indian Network was to serve my fellow countrymen," hardly the sentiments of an assimilated immigrant. Was he noticeably psychologically unbalanced as a young man, and a person who should not have been admitted in the first place for immigration in normal screening? And why aren't these questions being asked? [/FONT]
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  ???   Officer *Hugo Arango* of the Doraville (Georgia) Police Department was murdered by an illegal alien Bautista Ramirez May 13, 2000 ??? there's no dispute about those facts. But the June trial has not been a pretty picture as admitted cop-killer Ramirez pleaded self-defense because he thought Officer Arango would kill him otherwise, saying "if I don't kill him, he's going to kill me." The prosecution contends that Ramirez shot the police officer simply to avoid arrest. The original altercation occurred outside a nightclub, when Arango approached Ramirez, then 19, and his cousin. Ramirez was an illegal alien from Mexico, and possessed a concealed gun. Also injured by Ramirez was nightclub manager David Contreras, who survived being shot in the face. 
*Update, June 25, 2003: * Bautista Ramirez was found guilty of the murder of Officer Arango, as well as of carrying a concealed weapon and aggravated assault against David Contreras, who was blinded in one eye in the attack. Evidently the jury was not impressed with the defense strategy of blaming the victim. The jury decided Ramirez should get life in prison (with the possibility of parole) plus 20 years for shooting Contreras and one year for gun possession. According to the strange math of sentencing, the convicted cop killer could be out in 46 years or less. [/FONT]
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  ???   Nine-year-old *Jennette Tamayo* was kidnapped from her San Jose house on June 6  after her arrival at around 4 pm. A surveilance video revealed that the kidnapper waited outside in his car for the girl to enter the house. The girl's mother and 15-year-old brother arrived half a few minutes later and couldn't open the garage door to enter. When the brother ducked underneath the door he was attacked and choked by the intruder. The mother got in and tried to fight off the man, but he managed to escape with Jennette in his car. An Amber Alert was put into effect soon after. Police were concerned the Latino man who kidnapped Jennette was headed for Mexico, where he would be safe from American prosecution which is known to deal harshly with child kidnappers. 
*Update: * Jennette walked into an east Palo Alto convenience store a couple days after her abduction. Her detailed description enabled police to arrest the suspect just a few hours later, also not far from her home. After some reports that the man used at least three aliases, mainly Enrique Alvarez, writer Michelle Malkin confirmed that the kidnapper is indeed an illegal alien.      [/FONT]
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  ???   *Victoria Hen* was a victim of terrorism in America. She was shot and killed as she sat at her desk by Hesham Mohamed Hadayet on July 4, 2002, at the El Al ticket counter in Los Angeles International Airport. She was born in Israel and emigrated with her family to the US in 1990. Particularly sad is the fact that her family had planned a surprise party for her the next day where her boyfriend intended to propose. To add to the unimaginable tragedy for the family, Victoria's 18-year-old brother Nim was killed just four months later in a traffic accident with a hit-and-run driver. The LAX shooter was born in Egypt and lived here for a time as an illegal alien and was even considered for deportation until he got lucky when his wife won the  Diversity Lottery. Even though Hadayet went to LAX armed to the teeth, expressed anti-American and anti-Israeli views and shot six people before he was killed by security, it took nine months for the FBI to call the crime an act of terrorism. In addition, it was reported just a few days after the shooting that Hadayet was connected with Egyptian Islamic Jihad and al Qaeda.      [/FONT]
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  ???   *Gary Selby* was killed when an illegal alien with a blood alcohol level at three times the legal limit, Samuel Avalos Gallardo, drove over the dividing line and struck head-on the car Gary was driving. The three passengers were all badly injured but recovered. Gary's death occurred in October of 1992 when he was just 18 years old and just a few months after he graduated from high school. He was the older of two sons, and is still terribly missed by his family. 
   The drunk illegal alien, Samuel Avalos Gallardo, was arrested at the scene, tried and sentenced to 40 years for the death and injury he caused. Incredibly, the Nevada Department of Corrections wrongly placed Gallardo on a minimum security work detail, from which he escaped just six months into his sentence. Ten years later, this criminal is not behind bars where he belongs, but lives free somewhere. Gallardo's freedom remains a source of pain for Gary Selby's family, who still hope for the capture of the criminal and some justice.   [/FONT]
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 ???   Killing a horse is certainly insignificant in comparison with many of the crimes noted here. But the senseless cruelty of killing a beautiful animal as some sort of sick fun shouldn't be overlooked either. "This was an especially horrific and wanton killing," according to Sonoma County Prosecutor James Patrick Casey.  *Gentle Song* was a thoroughbred mare that was the beloved pet of a 13-year-old girl in Sonoma County, California. The horse won three races and placed seven times in a racing career of 27 starts, earning $65,000. A couple of illegal alien ranch hands had a few drinks and thought they would have some kicks by running down animals in a field with a car and truck. The mare was struck and died of head injuries. Local animal lovers put together a $20,000 reward to find the culprits, a strategy which succeeded. Liobijildo Guzman Herrera and Noel Guido-Silva, both of Mexico, were arrested June 13. If convicted, the men could spend a year or more in prison and have to pay substantial fines. 
*Court update:* The two accused horse-killers originally pleaded no contest in September, figuring they would get a slap on the wrist. When they found out that the sentence would be three years in state prison, they decided to withdraw the no contest plea and request a jury trial, which is now set for Feb. 4, 2004. [/FONT]
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  ???   Oceanside Officer *Tony Zeppetella* was a rookie cop, who had been in the department just over a year, when he was shot three times and killed in a credit union parking lot by Adrian George Camacho, a Mexican illegal alien with a long criminal record. Officer Zeppetella was married with a six-month-old child. He was born in Whittier and enlisted in the navy after he graduated from high school in 1994. Tony Zeppetella was 27 years old when he was killed. The accused killer had been deported several times, and his criminal record lists drugs, illegal firearms possession and gang activity. Camacho fled the scene of the shooting to the home of his ex-wife's parents, and was taken into custody only after a four-hour standoff. [/FONT]
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  ???   Eighteen-year-old *Faith Johnston* used her appearance on the witness stand to go public with her identity as a rape victim of Catholic Priest Kelvin Iguabita when she was only 15. The priest was arrested in January 2002 for assaulting her repeatedly over a four-month period at a church in Haverhill, Massachusetts. In the end, Superior Court Judge Richard Welsh sentenced the convicted Iguabita to a higher-than-requested 12-14 years in prison, after which the Columbian national will be deported to his home country. The trial and sentencing are part of the healing process for Faith Johnston, who has attempted suicide and has experienced panic attacks since the abuse. She is still unable to play the violin, because the calculating predator used music to get closer to his victim, and playing the violin reminds Faith of the assaults.   [/FONT]
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  ???   *Christopher Shackleford,* 19, was killed July 29, 2000, in Marietta, Georgia, by a drunk driver, an illegal alien whose blood alcohol was at twice the legal limit. Also killed were two other teenagers in the car ??? Julieanne Pascoe, 18, and Kelli Bourgeois, 19. Chris was an aspiring filmmaker, and was majoring in film at Georgia State University where he was a freshman. 
    When Atlanta INS assistant district director Bart Szafnicki read about the deaths, he decided that more serious action against drunk driving illegal aliens was needed, and he began deportation proceedings against 64 such foreigners in his district. "I thought about how I would feel if it was my child," said Szafnicki. "Anyone who is arrested for DUI who is an illegal alien needs to go home. The native-born population in the U.S. has largely recognized the problem with DUI. But with the new influx of immigrants, I just don't think the word has filtered down." 
    In May 2001, Sergio Montelongo-Sanchez, the drunk-driving illegal alien, pleaded guilty to vehicular homicide, DUI, reckless driving, possession of alcohol by a minor, and several other charges. For all that, he was sentenced to 45 years in prison. [/FONT]
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  ???   According to Boise-based federal agent J. Kent Nygaard, the murder of *Angie Leon* is a crime that never should have happened. He wrote to immigration officials in February 2002, warning them that America's permissive policies in dealing with criminal aliens were putting citizens' lives at risk. He noted these details about the killing of Angie Leon by her estranged husband: "Mr. Leon was convicted on March 18, 2002, in the District Court in Canyon County for possession of a controlled substance, making him an aggravated felon under INS laws calling for mandatory detention and institution of deportation proceedings. Those deportation proceedings were never instituted even though INS was aware of the case." Angie Leon was shot to death May 19, 2003, in her Nampa, Idaho, apartment while her three young children and her mother, Sylvia Flores, called 911 from a car in front of the residence. [/FONT]
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  ???   Eleodora Contreras, shown being helped to a court appearance by a police escort, was the mother of *Walter Contreras Valenzuela*, a 10-year-old boy who was murdered May 20, 2001, by an illegal alien from Honduras. Walter enjoyed playing along the Whippany River, just a short distance from his Morristown, New Jersey, home. He liked to fish in the river, with friends or sometimes with people he met on the bank. Tragically, one whom he met, Porfirio Jimenez, was a sexual predator. In another case of INS and police failure, the alleged killer had been arrested three times, once for threatening a man with a knife, yet the illegal alien remained in America to commit much more serious crimes. The boy was beaten so badly that his mother could not recognize his face, and he was sexually molested before being murdered. Porfirio Jimenez is scheduled to go to trial in January 2004. [/FONT]
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  ???   *Stanley Hope* lost his wife Kimberley when she was murdered April 8 by an illegal alien in order to steal her car. Stanley went looking for Kimberley when she failed to come home from feeding a neighbor's dogs and found her at the friend's house, laying on the floor with her head in a pool of blood where she had been killed. The police arrested suspect Daniel Gonzalez Berumen of Mexico when he attempted to drive Kimberley Hope's stolen car across the border. He had earlier been in prison for displaying a firearm from a vehicle in Los Angeles County in 2001, then was paroled and deported. Berumen is charged with murder, robbery and burglary, and could face the death penalty. [/FONT]
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  ???   In January 2002, five-year-old *Ana Cerna* was another tragic death at the hands of a irresponsible illegal alien. The girl was one of five children and one adult hit by the car driven by Osvaldo Urzua, a Mexican living in Oakland, California. Ana died after being taken off life support; she had attended kindergarten. Urzua sped away from the crime scene because he feared being deported and expressed no interest in what had happened to the children he struck. On July 15, 2002, he was ordered to spend six years in prison, a disappointingly short sentence for the families of the victims.  
    People like Osvaldo Urzua have created California's hit-and-run crisis resulting from the state being home to so many illegal alien drivers. The state's number of hit-and-run accidents has been accelerating, and is more than twice the national average for percentage of traffic accidents where the driver leaves the scene, i.e. 7.8 percent of the state's fatal crashes in 2001 compared with the 3.8 percent nationally. Since unlicensed drivers involved in fatal crashes may be deported, they are highly motivated not to be caught. As California Highway Patrol spokesman Steve Kohler remarked, someone who runs from an accident is "a person who may feel like they have nothing to lose." An illegal alien criminal would indeed qualify as someone with zero connection with the American community and nothing to lose. 
    See the map on the lower part of this page, Percentage of fatal crashes caused by hit-and-run drivers in 2001, which shows that high immigration states mostly correlate with more frequent hit and runs.      [/FONT]
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  ???   Colorado resident *Nancy Law* is a victim of identity theft because an illegal alien stole her Social Security number. She is shown with the paperwork necessary to clear up the fraud and get straight with the Internal Revenue Service and other agencies. Nancy began receiving notices from the IRS requesting payment of taxes for those jobs she was doing, like the gig in the Denver tortilla factory. In truth, Nancy Law works as a fifth-grade teacher and has never worked making tortillas, and the notice that she owed taxes was a frightening introduction to the underground world of fraudulent documents among illegal aliens. 
    Immigration reform legislation in 1986 required that employers determine that a job applicant be a citizen. As a result, document fraud has skyrocketed, even though fraudulent use of a fake Social Security number is a felony and can bring a prison term of five years. [/FONT]
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  ???   *Mariana Cisneros* is currently listed by the FBI as a missing person, although she was last known to be in the custody of her mother in Nashville. This child was unlucky in parents: her mother Martha Cano Patlan is accused is the brutal torture/murder of Mariana'a four-year-old brother. The boy had been beaten and burned, and died from multiple wounds. The other accused killer is Martha's boyfriend, Genaro Espinosa Dorantes, who was added to the FBI's Ten Most Wanted list in August 2003. The FBI describes Dorantes as very dangerous. He was involved in illegal alien smuggling, so he may use those connections to stay hidden or to escape to Mexico. Obviously, this child is in danger if she is still alive. [/FONT]
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  ???   *Ariel Sellouk* was murdered when his throat was violently slashed, nearly decapitating him. There are many questions about this crime, which occurred in Houston, August 6. The victim was an Israeli and the accused killer, Mohammed Ali Alayed, is a Saudi citizen with an expired student visa. One story refers to the two being "friends" although Alayed's roomate said that he had never seen the victim before. Apparently Sellouk and Alayed met for a drink, then went back to Alayed's apartment where he allegedly killed Sellouk in front of the roommate. 
    Since there is no apparent motive, the family believes the act is a hate crime and terrorism and the local Anti-Defamation League intends to pursue that possibility. However, police say Alayed has a history of selling drugs. He was arrested about a week later when he was found hiding in a closet of the same apartment complex where he lived.   
*Update, Jan 12, 2004:* Saudi national Mohammed Ali Alayed pleaded guilty to the killing. Although police could not establish a motive for the murder, Alayed went to a local mosque after the crime and had recently become more actively Muslim. [/FONT]
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  ???   The tragic death of *Michael Seitz* should be a cautionary tale in several respects. The 35-year-old Napa County vintner was apparently killed in a terrible fork-lift accident where the only other person present was an illegal alien worker. After Seitz's skull was crushed, *Jesus Garcia* panicked and dumped the body into a truck and drove it a half mile from the scene. For a while, authorities believed the death was a homicide. Later, the sheriff's department said either the new forklift malfunctioned or Garcia made an error. Was Seitz dead when Garcia disposed of the evidence? What if Seitz had been badly hurt ??? would Garcia have aided him? 
    As it is, Garcia is still in serious trouble. Fleeing the scene of a deadly accident and not reporting it is a felony; concealing a death is a misdemeanor. He could serve five years in jail. Garcia also has a DUI pending. On September 30, he pleaded not guilty to concealing an accidental death. Despite his illegal status, the court has set bail at $65,000.    [/FONT]
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  ???   Five-year-old *Felix Leon* was another another victim of a hit-and-run illegal alien on Sept. 29. The boy was struck and killed as he rode his bike near his home in Brownsville, Texas. Mexican national Carlos Jaramillo ran over the child with his pick-up and dragged the bike for about 40 yards, where passenger Domingo Acosta Lopez tried to remove the bicycle from the truck's undercarriage but could not. At that point, both Jaramillo and Lopez fled on foot. They were pursued by neighbor Leroy Redford who lives on little Felix's street, who was joined by others from the neighborhood. Lopez was caught then and Jaramillo was found two days later by police later hiding out in a local house, thanks to a tip. 
    Both men who were arrested in the crime are illegal aliens who had been deported earlier. Police are investigating their possible connection with other crimes and whether drinking was involved in this hit and run. [/FONT]
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???   The sign in this photo reads, "I'm looking for Gonzalo Harrell-Gonzalez, illegal alien driver who killed my son. Have you seen him?" The face hidden behind the sign is that of *Kathy Inman*, who lost her son *Dustin* when an illegal alien crashed into the Inman's car. Kathy, husband Billy and son Dustin were stopped at a traffic light when a car driven by Harrell-Gonzalez rear-ended their car at 62 miles per hour. Both adults were severely injured and couldn't attend their son's funeral. Kathy was permanently disabled and was put into a wheelchair. 
    The perpetrator, *Gonzalo Harrell-Gonzalez*, escaped from a hospital and was never even arrested. A Gilmer County (Georgia) grand jury indicted Gonzalez on charges of vehicular homicide and serious injury by a vehicle. He remains at large. 
    The occasion which brought Kathy Inman out into the streets was the so-called "Immigrant Worker Freedom Ride," a caravan of buses demanding "rights" for illegal aliens. That's the crowd in the photo. Of course, real immigrants, the legal sort, have workplace protections just like the rest of us. Furthermore, illegal foreigners wrapping themselves in the civil rights movement is insulting to the real Freedom Riders of the 1960s, who worked for long-denied political rights for black Americans. [/FONT]
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 ???   Little Madelyn Cumpston is sitting next to a statue of her older sister Annie, who was killed in a hit-and-run accident. Six-year-old Annie was struck and killed in downtown Baltimore as she and her family were leaving the circus March 22. At school, *Annie Cumpston* was active in dance and gymnastics. But as the family left the circus, even holding her mom's hand couldn't save her from being struck by a truck driven by illegal alien Guillermo Diaz when it veered into the crosswalk. She died later that evening at the hospital. 
    After striking the little girl, Diaz drove off. Witness Ryan Jones tried to stop the fleeing Diaz, Jones became caught on the door of the truck and was dragged for a distance. When Diaz was arrested, he did not have a driver's license, the tags on the truck were expired and his blood-alcohol level was 0.07 percent, just below the state limit of 0.08. Diaz has been in the United States illegally for four years doing construction work. At sentencing in early October, Diaz received 10 years in prison but is eligible for parole in just two years.     [/FONT]
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  ???   *Bret and Jennifer Schwartz* of Hollywood, Florida, did everything the right way when they hired a nanny to take care of their baby: they hired her through an agency, hired a private investigator and checked references. However, the child's fearful reactions when the parents left her in the hands of Peruvian Claudia Muro made them believe they might have made a mistake. Sure enough, the hidden video cams showed the woman violently shaking the child and possibly slamming her on the kitchen floor. 
    At this writing, Muro is in jail with $150,000 bail, charged with four counts of felony child abuse. Immigration officials have put a hold on the case, indicating Muro is an illegal alien. Whatever the woman's immigration status, this case shows the danger of hiring any immigrant because of the limited time frame that a background check can encompass. [/FONT]
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  ???   *Adriana Sanchez* is a desired target for identity thieves because of her Latino name. The young woman had already passed a credit history check in order to get hired as a Los Angeles police officer, so she was surpised to find that someone in Atlanta had stolen her identity and had rung up $70,000 in debt. Sanchez, who works as a public information officer for the LAPD, felt a personal affront as well as ripped off, remarking, "You feel like you're being violated. . . . She even had my mom's address." 
    Investigators familiar with identity theft have noticed that thieves look for similar names to rip off. The LAPD officer's ID was stolen by someone named Adriana Sanchez-Palacios, who was charged in September for fraud and identity theft because the crime victim in this case knew exactly what to do. 
    The problem of identity theft has gotten so bad that some companies are offering identity theft insurance.   [/FONT]
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  ???   *Border Patrol Agent James Epling* died in performing his duties along the Mexican border, apparently drowning in the Colorado River in pursuit of several illegal aliens and was last seen along the shoreline as he followed the foreigners. He was the seventh Border officer to die in the line of duty in Yuma. Agent Epling was just 24 and was the father of three, going on four. His father-in-law is a retired Border Patrol agent from the McAllen, Texas, sector. 
    Just before disappearing, Epling had pulled a Chinese woman illegal alien out of the river. Three other Chinese were taken into custody the night of the disappearance, along with one Mexican believed to be the smuggler. Although there has been no evidence of foul play actually found, the smuggler can be charged in the death.    [/FONT]
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  ???    Shown in the photo is crime victim *Tracy Owen* of Nashville. The pregnant woman was murdered because a couple of drunk illegal aliens thought they had struck her in a traffic accident, so they decided to kill her in order to cover up the incident. In fact, it appears that they did not hit Tracy Owen with a truck at all, but she had fallen. Still, rather than offer aid to an injured woman who was pleading for help, the response was for the younger man to shoot her her five times. Both men were charged with criminal homicide. 
    Police detective Robert Swisher remarked "In my 22 years on the job, I have never seen anyone executed, and I mean executed, because someone thought they had hit the person with a vehicle. It sickens me." 
    The shooter, Antonio DeJesus Idelfonso, is 17 years old, and a later hearing will decide whether he will be prosecuted as an adult. 
    IHC has analyzed a lot of terrible crimes, but this one breaks new ground in the category of illegal alien hit and run ??? *hit and murder.* In another disturbing report, driver Eliseo Marcelino-Quintero said that Idelfonso grabbed the truck's steering wheel and tried to run down Owen when he saw her.    [/FONT]
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  ???   Denver police officer Robert Bryant was struck down in a hit-and-run as he was flagging down speeders near a school at around 3 in the afternoon January 22. There were numerous witnesses who said the driver gunned the engine of his Chevy S-10 pickup and purposely ran down Bryant, who was wearing a bright orange vest. The driver, a Mexican with no identification, was caught when he ran a red light a few blocks away and crashed into a car driven by an elderly man, who was also injured. Officer Bryant received serious injuries including a femur fracture but is expected to recover. Those who saw the incident say it is a miracle that he wasn't killed The Mexican driver apparently was drunk or on drugs, according to investigators and was injured in the crash. [/FONT]
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  ???   Apparently the roadways of Great Britain are similarly threatened by illegal alien drivers who care little for common safety and less for obeying traffic laws. Nine-year-old *Callum Oakford* was struck and killed by an illegal Algerian asylum seeker as the young boy was on his way to visit friends. Kamel Kadri was denied asylum but was not deported, instead he remained and purchased an old Renault which he drove without license or tax. The family believes Kadri should have been found guilty of manslaughter and is disappointed he is serving only two years in jail. 
    Judge Anthony Thorpe said to Kadri in court, "Had you not stayed on as an illegal immigrant that young child would still be alive. It is intolerable that those who should have been removed from the country manage to stay for long periods of time and are no doubt often driving unsafe, unlicensed and uninsured cars since they clearly have little respect for the laws of this country." 
    The judge was seriously incensed by how weak the law is to deal with cases like this one, and how the maximum sentence he issued was reduced by a higher court. He suggested that insurance companies should issue drivers with a swipe card which they would have to display in their car and, more importantly, have to swipe at a fuel pump before being able to buy any gasoline. [/FONT]
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  ???   *Joseph Crummy* was allegedly murdered by illegal alien Jesus Hernandez for $1345 that the Lehi, Utah, stucco contractor supposedly owed his one-time employee. This is an unpleasantly murky case where a 38-year-old man is dead, leaving a pregnant wife and four children. Hernandez reportedly shot Crummy in the face as they argued about the money at a job site, firing five or six rounds. A witness helped guide police to Hernandez a few hours later, who was at his mother's house where he surrendered. He is being held on $500,000 bond and is being investigated for murder, obstruction of justice and possession of a firearm by a restricted person. 
    Apparently Crummy did not pay a lot of his Hispanic employees, since a number of complaints had been lodged against him about wage disputes through the Utah Labor Commission, as had Hernandez. Those complaints were resolved or pending, so the killer would likely had received his money if he had followed the law. But border jumper Jesus Hernandez ended up showing his disdain for American law in the most extreme fashion. 
    And Joseph Crummy's law-breaking employment practices ended up being very expensive indeed.   [/FONT]
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  ???   *Amber Merkle* was only 8 when she died in a four-car wreck May 1, caused by illegal alien Arturo Lupian. A third-grade student in Decatur Alabama, Amber lived for a few hours on life support until medical staff took her off because there was no evidence of brain activity. She had been on a Saturday afternoon outing of ice cream and fun with her aunt and cousin. 
    The drunk driver Arturo Lupian had an elevated blood alcohol level of .11 at 2:30 in the afternoon when his vehicle slammed into the stopped SUV in which Amber was riding. (Alabama has a limit of .08.) There were no skid marks at the accident scene, so apparently Lupian didn't even try to stop. If convicted, he faces 2 to 20 years in prison for manslaughter. 
    Amber's mother Ruby remarked, "I hope he does more than two years. I don't want him going to Mexico and getting another name, and doing it again." 
*Update:* Three months after the death, emotional recovery has been difficult for Amber's mom, but has been helped a great deal by a supportive community and good friends.       [/FONT]
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  ???   *Vinessa Hoera * was a young single mom, only 23, when she was brutally raped and murdered by an illegal alien from Guatemala, Faustino Chavez, who apparently was angry when his advances toward her were not received positively. The bruises on her body showed that she tried to fight off her attacker but was not successful. 
    The young woman's family was shocked to hear the details of how savage her murder had been, like how her throat had been slashed several times from ear to ear. "I'm in shock," said Donna Hoera, the victim's mother. "I'm sick, I didn't know a lot of what they said." She further described her daughter as "on the up. She was a single mom, just bought a new car. She was a life-lover, a very positive person." Vinessa had a five-year-old son. [/FONT]
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  ???   * Troy Payton* was stabbed to death with a butcher knife by an illegal alien, Abimael Azmitia, during a confrontation after Azmitia had insulted a 15-year-old girl, all of whom lived in a residence motel near Las Vegas. Even though the killer was a previously deported illegal alien, District Judge Joseph Bonaventure sentenced Azmitia to only 19 to 48 months even though the killer pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter. Azmitia also had a prior arrest record for assault and domestic violence in Colorado, and had been deported a month before the killing. 
    Troy Payton was an iron worker who was remembered by his friends and family as someone who cared deeply for Nevada's history and wide open spaces. "He loved wild horses, Harley Davidsons and mines," according to his mother Peggy Irving. He was 32 years old when he was killed in April. [/FONT]
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  ???   *Officer Will Seuis* a motorcycle patrolman in Oakland, California, was killed on his ride home by an illegal alien. Fortunately some witnesses on the highway immediately phoned 911 and the accused hit-and-run driver, Carlos Mares, was quickly caught. Mares was driving his truck with a commercial load. 
    A sixteen-year veteran of the Police Department, Officer Seuis was remembered at his funeral as a hard-working cop who had received 33 letters of appreciation from citizens, including one from a motorist he had ticketed. He had been in traffic enforcement since 1998, and was a member of the department's 20-member precision motorcycle drill team. Seuis left a wife, Michelle, and two daughters. 
    The accused killer has a history of traffic convictions. It's curious that illegal alien Mares has his own business, Mares Trucking.     [/FONT]
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  ???   *Officer Michael Gordon* lost his life to a drunk driving illegal alien. The Chicago policeman was in the driver's seat of his squad car when it was struck by Luis Calle, a Guatemalan whose blood alcohol level was 0.177, twice the legal limit. Another officer, John Delcason, sustained injuries and was in fair condition in the hospital a few days after the incident. Luis Calle died a few hours after striking the police car. 
    Michael Gordon is survived by his wife and four children. Several of his relatives have also been police officers, including his father, brother, uncle and cousin. Before entering the police department, Gordon joined the 81st Airborne right after high school, serving in Bosnia and Korea. As a policeman, he asked to be assigned to a tough part of Chicago because he wanted to do more than just write tickets. [/FONT]
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  ???   *Terry and Lisa Dilks* were found murdered from multiple gunshot wounds in their home in Urbandale, Iowa. On August 26, police announced that they had arrested one suspect of two, an illegal alien from Mexico known as Leocardio Lopez, but whose actual name is Audiel Molasco-Tello. The Dilks had a 15-year-old son, Dustin, but he was not at home at the time of the killing. Now he's an orphan because illegal aliens murdered his parents. 
    Also sought in the crime is another man, Raymundo Cruz Gomez. Gomez was a former employee at Applebee's Restaurant where he worked as a cook. Terry Dilks was his supervisor there. 
*Update:* A month after the Iowa double murder, not a great deal has changed. Molasco-Tello has been indicted for re-entering the country illegally and Gomez is still being sought, though local police believe he has left the area. [/FONT]
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  ???   What sort of monster could murder three children in the most brutal manner ??? one child was beheaded and the two other were nearly decapitated. They also suffered a variety of injuries including blunt force trauma and asphyxiation. The victims, residents of Baltimore, (l. to r.) were siblings Alexis Quezada (10) and Lucero Quezada (9) and their cousin Ricardo Espinoza (9). 
    The two men arrested for the crime were also relatives: Policarpio Espinoza, 22, brother of the father of the two siblings, and Espinoza's cousin Adan Espinoza Canela, 17. The accused are illegal aliens as are the parents of the murdered children. Apparently the arrests were based on DNA/blood evidence.    [/FONT]
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  ???   We must add the name of* Brandon Winfield* to the list of police officers murdered by illegal aliens. On Thursday, Oct. 14, Officer Winfield was checking out a disabled vehicle on State Route 423, south of Marion, Ohio, and apparently felt he was helping a stranded motorist. Details of the murder are not exactly clear, but Winfield was found shot in the head in his patrol car which had run off the road. 
    The police are now searching for Juan Carlos Cruz who is considered armed and dangerous. Another suspect, as yet unnamed, is being held and is believed to be an illegal alien.  
    Deputy Winfield was married and had two sons, ages 2 and 3. The photo shows him with his three-year-old son Landon.  [/FONT]
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???   Another tragic addition to the list of unnessary deaths caused by violent illegal aliens was the newlywed couple, James and Emilia Lee of Huachuca City, Arizona, who had been married only six weeks. They were killed Oct. 16 when a truckload of at least 17 illegal aliens traveling at 90 mph crashed into several vehicles near the town of Sierra Vista, leaving a horrific scene of carnage. The aliens were trying to escape police after they had run a stop sign, and the truck rammed into a line of nine vehicles waiting for a turn light near Fort Huachuca. 
    The photo shows James Lee's son Joe and grandson Christopher. James was 75 and his new bride Emilia was 71. The couple had been planning a fishing trip to Mexico with Joe and other relatives. Both James and Emilia were known as neighborly, never hesitating to reach out to help. James often helped out when someone needed a home repair done, and Emilia was an active volunteer for her church. Nearly 300 friends and family attended the services for the Lees held Oct. 21. [/FONT]


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## Squaggleboggin (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> I was being facitious about bombing Mexico. I wasn't when it comes to killing them as they try to cross the border.



I thought so, but I couldn't be sure, heh.



			
				DOMS said:
			
		

> I have family there.  And, just as importantly, there are _Americans_ there, living on _American_ soil, who would like to keep an _American_ standard of living and not sink to the shit hole Mexican standard of living.



That was pure sarcasm on my part. I certainly understand what you're saying.





			
				DOMS said:
			
		

> None of that means that I'm not entitle to my opinion or simple wishful thinking.



Of course not. This really wasn't aimed toward you either. It's just a rant about people who adamantly maintain that someone is an idiot without the slightest consideration that they don't know everything about the situation. It's blasphemy!



			
				DOMS said:
			
		

> You must also admit that it's been decades and the government (ruled both both parties) *hasn't done a* *god damn fucking thing about stopping the flow of chewies into this country!*



And once they start to, it'll be a very long time before it's actually into effect. The government, after all, was designed so that nothing could be done quickly. Not always advantageous, but nonetheless we're stuck with it (at least for a while - pun intended).


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## Vieope (Jan 7, 2007)

_How much would it cost to build the wall? _


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> [FONT=&quot]
> WTF?!?!???? What language are you typing in? What language did your docter speak to you in when he slapped your ass after you were born? [/FONT][FONT=&quot]GET A GRIP HERE[/FONT][FONT=&quot] ... as long as this liberal bullshit "give them a break they are just trying to improve their lives" is allowed to pre-empt the needs of your life right in this moment someone else will need to attend the funeral of his or her daughter or son killed as a direct result of no border protections.   If your a liberal and your heart is bleeding for the people who want a better life .. than let it be the people not yet on the following list.  Let it be for the people saved from enormous personal tragedy by the existence of effective border protection ??? in short a wall.  Before you post again about why the Mexicans should be worried over READ the entire remaining part of this post.  It shows how the Mexican government HELPS crime continue here in the border   states.  If you live in a state not on the border and think it???s no big deal then picture your mother, sister, or wife on this list.[/FONT]



At one of my clients offices, there is a low 20s lady.  She's blond haired and blue eyed.  She grew up in a town along the Texas/Mexico border.

She said that as a child, she could never be outside of her house without an adult present.  So also was never allowed to go to the store, even with a parent. 

So, why was it this way?  She said that it's a common practice for the chewies to kidnap blond haired, blue eyed girls.  The chewies would come across the border, kidnap the child and go back.  She also said that the Mexican government would do a thing about it.

Just one of many reason why Mexico, and everyone that originates there, are sub-human pieces of shit.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _How much would it cost to build the wall? _


More than it would cost to build a wall of bullets.


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## Vieope (Jan 7, 2007)

DOMS said:


> More than it would cost to build a wall of bullets.



_When is that going to happen? Are they making a law? _


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## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _When is that going to happen? Are they making a law? _



Not yet.

The issue of the rampant invasion of the illegals is just coming to the forefront of the political issues.  Expect to see more of this during the next elections.

Like I've said before, which ever group promises to get the illegals out gets my vote.


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 7, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _How much would it cost to build the wall? _



I Don't know V.  Less than the damage costs we incure from not having a wall ... prolly one years total would cover it.  The rest of the years down the road from there would enjoy a net gain in both lives AND money.

V if this were a problem in your country youd feel the same way ...


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## Squaggleboggin (Jan 7, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:
			
		

> [FONT=&quot]WTF?!?!???? What language are you typing in? What language did your docter speak to you in when he slapped your ass after you were born? [/FONT][FONT=&quot]GET A GRIP HERE[/FONT][FONT=&quot] ... as long as this liberal bullshit "give them a break they are just trying to improve their lives" is allowed to pre-empt the needs of your life right in this moment someone else will need to attend the funeral of his or her daughter or son killed as a direct result of no border protections. If your a liberal and your heart is bleeding for the people who want a better life .. than let it be the people not yet on the following list. Let it be for the people saved from enormous personal tragedy by the existence of effective border protection ??? in short a wall. Before you post again about why the Mexicans should be worried over READ the entire remaining part of this post. It shows how the Mexican government HELPS crime continue here in the border states. If you live in a state not on the border and think it???s no big deal then picture your mother, sister, or wife on this list.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]All I said was that the US doesn't have an official language. And it doesn't. It's a fact. Look it up. If you don't like it, do something about it. My comment had absolutely nothing to do with what you posted. It's tragic and I understand your point, but it doesn't pertain whatsoever to the fact that the US doesn't have an official language. Or at least I don't see how it does.


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## Vieope (Jan 7, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> V if this were a problem in your country youd feel the same way ...



_I know that. We even get upset when foreigners are trying to help.  

But I dont believe in the wall that you are trying to do, it would cost too much and it would not work. _


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## min0 lee (Jan 7, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _How much would it cost to build the wall? _


We could hire the Mexicans to build it, cheap labor.


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## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)




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## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

Here's another one for you, BoneCrusher.

How much do you want to bet that they're illegal?

*NASHVILLE, Tennessee* (AP) -- State officials said Sunday they had arrested two people they believed were responsible for the killing of a state trooper who was shot during a traffic stop in western Tennessee.
The 24-year-old trooper pulled over two men and was trying to get them out of the vehicle Saturday night when he was shot twice, according to footage from the patrol car's video camera. At least one bullet struck him in the head, said Mike Browning, a Department of Safety spokesman.
On Sunday, *Alejandro Guana*, 17, and *Orlando Garcia*, 19, were arrested without incident at a hotel near downtown Nashville, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Jennifer Johnson said.
"After interviewing the two men we feel confident we have the two people in custody that murdered the state trooper," TBI director Mark Gwyn said.
Hunters found Trooper Calvin Jenks' body beside his patrol car near the intersection of state highways 14 and 54, Browning said.
Authorities believed the suspects were carrying drugs and drove toward Nashville after the shooting in Tipton County, which is just north of Memphis, Browning said before Sunday's arrests.
Browning said Jenks smelled marijuana on the driver. He said that when Jenks asked the man if he had drugs in the car, the suspect eventually admitted there were "drugs in the center console" of the car.
Browning said Jenks then went back to the passenger and asked him if he had drugs. The man said he didn't, then opened fire, Browning said.
Investigators found what they believe is Jenks' flashlight in a garbage can at a Wal-Mart in Brownsville, 13 miles east of the scene of the shooting. Browning said one of the suspects bought a sweatshirt at the Wal-Mart and authorities were trying to get video footage from inside the store.
Jenks, 24, had been a trooper for two years and transferred to the Tipton area from Marshall County in 2005 to be closer to his new wife, he said.


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 7, 2007)

Wow I can't believe how lenient most of those sentences are in those cases Bone posted. Why is that?


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## BigPapaPump68 (Jan 7, 2007)

min0 lee said:


> We could hire the Mexicans to build it, cheap labor.



Sounds like a plan. Mexicans will do anything for money, even if it's to keep them out of our country.


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## DOMS (Jan 7, 2007)

BigPapaPump68 said:


> Sounds like a plan. Mexicans will do anything for money, even if it's to keep them out of our country.



Yeah, but they'll do a shitty job.


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## Strongwarrior (Jan 8, 2007)

DOMS said:


> It's not all immigrants. It's pretty much just the Mexicans.
> 
> I've been around a lot them: Mexican, Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Korean, Russian, Vietnamese, German, and Spanish. Just to name a few.  It's only the Mexicans that think that the US owes them anything.
> 
> The only the thing the US owes the Mexicans is a boot in the ass.


I totally agree with this! And this is because they are totally convinced that California and Texas belong to them! Whatever happened centuries ago doesn't matter now, this is the year 2007, a different time, and they should  respect this nation (U.S.A.) But they don't, they just demand rights that they abosulutely don't deserve! They got some nerve!!!


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## Burner02 (Jan 8, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _So are you guys worried because they might take your job? _


**no. I have a technical job...they mainly do menial(sp) work



Vieope said:


> _Maybe if you stop giving them jobs they might stop coming. But that wont happen because your country needs them. _


**no we don't. As mentioned, we have thousands on welfare that can do the work. Very simple to implement: go work..or not check. period.


Vieope said:


> _If all_ *ILLEGAL* _immigrants left in one day, I wonder what would happen to your economy._


***would be just fine..and be better. use our tax payer money for funding our own. Health care, schools...
BTW: I welcome immigrants. They usually have something to offer.


DOMS said:


> Less of our stuff would be stolen, so we wouldn't need to buy as much. So yeah, it would take a dip.


**good answer


The Monkey Man said:


> It would soar because all the illegal laborers would be replaced by taxpaying natives who would then be able
> to get off welfare because there may be some new jobs in town
> And they would buy property and spend their money here
> upon retirement


***beat me to it.


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 8, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> [FONT=&quot]
> 
> [/FONT]All I said was that the US doesn't have an official language. And it doesn't. It's a fact. Look it up. If you don't like it, do something about it. My comment had absolutely nothing to do with what you posted. It's tragic and I understand your point, but it doesn't pertain whatsoever to the fact that the US doesn't have an official language. Or at least I don't see how it does.



I get a little worked up on this issue ... you mighta noticed.  You are wrong on the language thing though.  If you apply for a green card or to become an American it's part of the process that you learn enough of the American language ... English ... to get approval.  We teach it in our schools by law and you must have a reasonable level of skill to gain entrance into any American university.

It gets confusing because our sopciety allows non-English speaking people to function without learning the lingo by installing bi-lingual signs all over the place ... until you get over the border into Mexico that is.  The second you cross one inch over that border you BETTER understand Spanish cuz all English signage is astalavista baby.


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## Burner02 (Jan 8, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _They might deport all the illegal americans. _


who might that be?


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 8, 2007)

V I have a problem with your posts.  You seem to feel that illegal alians should continue to have the ability to enter our country at will.  You refuse to see the benifits of a wall, or how it would be cheaper on our country to build it than not to build it.  Please explain yourself here blue bunny ... cuz you are starting to sound like you are with the Mexican symphithysers.  If that's the case we are just looking for a place to send all the fat ugly women from our over crowded prisons (we can sort out the cute ones) and would be more than happy to send them all your way.   So  lets have it Blue Bunny ... what gives?  Why you want no wall?


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## Burner02 (Jan 8, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _How much would it cost to build the wall? _


much less than the 15 billion per annum they are taking back to Mexico, the millions/billions it cost us to provide them health care, unemployment and build schools to educate their children..and the prisons to house them when they break the law.


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## Vieope (Jan 8, 2007)

Burner02 said:


> who might that be?



_I was joking about this.  _


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## Vieope (Jan 8, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> V I have a problem with your posts.  You seem to feel that illegal alians should continue to have the ability to enter our country at will.  You refuse to see the benifits of a wall, or how it would be cheaper on our country to build it than not to build it.  Please explain yourself here blue bunny ... cuz you are starting to sound like you are with the Mexican symphithysers.  If that's the case we are just looking for a place to send all the fat ugly women from our over crowded prisons (we can sort out the cute ones) and would be more than happy to send them all your way.   So  lets have it Blue Bunny ... what gives?  Why you want no wall?



_I am against the wall, not against you stopping illegal aliens.  I am against the wall because it would not work. If you build a wall, they will build a tunnel under it. Not one but many tunnels. It doesnt matter how deep you put the wall or how tall it will be.  _


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## Vieope (Jan 8, 2007)

_Unless you put a lot of people guarding it and how big would it be? How many miles of wall? _


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## Burner02 (Jan 8, 2007)

It would be a deterrant. 
In a kind of analogy: You can never completely burglar proof your house. If somebody wants in bad enough, they are gonna get in.

But, no sense in leaving the front door wide open.

I don't know how long the fence would have to be. there may be hundreds of miles that might not even need fenced due to incacessability. (too far to walk/fuel range) Plus the border patrol does have ariel surveilance as well as troops on the ground.
Stem the free flow of illegals in...and actually start deporting the ones here...home...and tell the Mexicans to fix their own dam government...


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## Strongwarrior (Jan 8, 2007)

No more illegal mexicans please!


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## maniclion (Jan 8, 2007)

We should offer them free ship rides to Brazil I heard they need more people, right Vieope?


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## maniclion (Jan 8, 2007)

DOMS said:


> The difference is that Mexicans are an immediate threat that stands a chance of ruining America.
> 
> Take Brazil for example.  It's one of the most affluent Latin American countries, yet boasts slums the size of cities.  This sort of crap just doesn't exist in the US and I don't want it to.


You don't think the US has slums the size of cities?  Do you realize in middle America there are a lot of poor white trash who could be compared to Mexicans themselves?  Go to a little place called Farmington Missouri and drive around the near-by town  it''s the ice capital of the US around there and the white folks live in slums and trailer park that could be compared to the ghetto....I think you need to take a road trip around the US and see the whole picture....


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## maniclion (Jan 8, 2007)

My mother lives their as a bail bondsman/bounty hunter, she bonds out nothing but white trash all of the time.  These people are just as wretched and vilent as any latino/black/asian gang in the major cities....I am sure most of the white states like Arkansas, Kentucky ,Tennessee, etc have the same group of poor white trash....beleive me i used to have repo furniture and tvs and stereos for my step-fathers rental business, I would go to these homes and they would look no worse than any of the ghetto homes I used to visit when I lived near Fifth Ward in Houston Texas, I had black friends who were good people when I lived there, mexican friends as well I never saw anything different between the poor whites, blacks , mexicans or any other race when times are rough you grow up rough and it's easy to get swayed into the wrong group....


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## DOMS (Jan 8, 2007)

Burner02 said:


> It would be a deterrant.
> In a kind of analogy: You can never completely burglar proof your house. If somebody wants in bad enough, they are gonna get in.
> 
> But, no sense in leaving the front door wide open.
> ...



I believe it would have to be 700 miles long.


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## DOMS (Jan 8, 2007)

maniclion said:


> You don't think the US has slums the size of cities?  Do you realize in middle America there are a lot of poor white trash who could be compared to Mexicans themselves?  Go to a little place called Farmington Missouri and drive around the near-by town  it''s the ice capital of the US around there and the white folks live in slums and trailer park that could be compared to the ghetto....I think you need to take a road trip around the US and see the whole picture....


Here you are, thinking in US terms.  You obviously have no clue what a true, _non-US_, slum is like.  No clue at all.

You should really read up on the slums of Brazil.  They're huge, densely packed, and almost without law.


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 8, 2007)

Yeah watch *City of God*. I know it's just a movie but I've heard the slums in Rio are awful. I just took a class on People/Culture of Latin America last year and I don't think you could compare American ghettos to those in Central/South America or any Latin nation.


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## DOMS (Jan 8, 2007)

Goodfella9783 said:


> Yeah watch *City of God*. I know it's just a movie but I've heard the slums in Rio are awful. I just took a class on People/Culture of Latin America last year and I don't think you could compare American ghettos to those in Central/South America or any Latin nation.


There's a documentary (of sorts) floating around the bittorrent sites.  You should watch _that_.

Ha! I fount it. It's actually a Sky One (a UK/New Zealand TV station) piece on gangs, but they cover the slums pretty well.


----------



## BoneCrusher (Jan 8, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _I am against the wall, not against you stopping illegal aliens.  I am against the wall because it would not work. If you build a wall, they will build a tunnel under it. Not one but many tunnels. It doesnt matter how deep you put the wall or how tall it will be.  _



The organised crime types have already built tunnels.  They watched the border areas via satellite and found them.   Arrested the crime guys and destroyed the tunnels.  The wall will not totally work nor will it be easily climbed, tunneled, or gotten around.  The thing will work at a much better rate than what we have now ... nothing.  It will be a great start, and as time passes we will learn how to fix the leaks.


----------



## BoneCrusher (Jan 8, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _Unless you put a lot of people guarding it and how big would it be? How many miles of wall? _


The entire border from California coast to the Texas gulf.  We use the same border agents.  We just deploy them on and at a wall built with motion sensers, lights, and ground sensers to detect tunnels.  We really do have the technology to make an effective barier.

Not to mention all the border agents that wouldn't be getting killed by drug thugs ...


----------



## BoneCrusher (Jan 8, 2007)

maniclion said:


> You don't think the US has slums the size of cities?  Do you realize in middle America there are a lot of poor white trash who could be compared to Mexicans themselves?  Go to a little place called Farmington Missouri and drive around the near-by town  it''s the ice capital of the US around there and the white folks live in slums and trailer park that could be compared to the ghetto....I think you need to take a road trip around the US and see the whole picture....


So what's your point manic ... that we have crime?  Point taken ... but not a valid point on this issue since the white trailer trash was born here and didn't get here illegally.  We can deal with American born or naturalised criminals more easily without all the illegals in the way of the state and federal justice systems.


----------



## Vieope (Jan 8, 2007)

DOMS said:


> They're huge, densely packed, and almost without law.


----------



## Vieope (Jan 8, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> The organised crime types have already built tunnels.  They watched the border areas via satellite and found them.   Arrested the crime guys and destroyed the tunnels.  The wall will not totally work nor will it be easily climbed, tunneled, or gotten around.  The thing will work at a much better rate than what we have now ... nothing.  It will be a great start, and as time passes we will learn how to fix the leaks.



_You will see a rise in people taking skydiving lessons near the border or doing those jumps with motorcycles? 

What if they destroy it? TNT is not well regulated in south america. _


----------



## DOMS (Jan 8, 2007)

Vieope said:


>



Have you ever been to one?  If so, do you have any pictures?


----------



## Vieope (Jan 8, 2007)

DOMS said:


> Have you ever been to one?  If so, do you have any pictures?



_

But the size is impressive. _


----------



## BoneCrusher (Jan 8, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _You will see a rise in people taking skydiving lessons near the border or doing those jumps with motorcycles?
> 
> What if they destroy it? TNT is not well regulated in south america. _


That would be an interesting event ... Mexicans attacking the American borders.  I can see an embargo til' the Mexicans finally took proper actions.  

In reality the entire concept of border patrol is a scam ... nothing but a dog and pony show.  BushCo is concerned more with creating the appearence of taking action than actually doing something that would produce results.  The entire BushCo regime has been the single most destructive event to have heppened to the American economy, security, and social structure since the great deppression ... worse in many ways.


Ohhh and hey V ... they're coming your way too .  Lets see how reluctant you are to prevet their crimes and devistation when it's in your backyard .


----------



## Vieope (Jan 8, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> Lets see how reluctant you are to prevet their crimes and devistation when it's in your backyard .



_Actually I was trying to help, so you dont build something that will not work. The only way to stop this immigration problem would be to use DOMS idea. _


----------



## Squaggleboggin (Jan 8, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> You are wrong on the language thing though.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_States

We definitely do have the technology for a wall like this. However, I highly doubt one will be built. It would cost the taxpayers too much money. No politician is going to want to stand up and promote a cause that would cost money. Perhaps the problem is with Americans - they look out more for themselves sometimes than for what's good for the entire country.

Heck, I live near Cleveland and we have a lot of cities nearby that are densly populated with Mexicans and Hispanics. That's why Spanish is my second language. It comes in handy sometimes.


----------



## DOMS (Jan 8, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_States
> 
> We definitely do have the technology for a wall like this. However, I highly doubt one will be built. It would cost the taxpayers too much money. No politician is going to want to stand up and promote a cause that would cost money. Perhaps the problem is with Americans - they look out more for themselves sometimes than for what's good for the entire country.



Very true.  But deploying troops along the border and killing a few Mexicans to as an example would be fairly inexpensive.



Squaggleboggin said:


> Heck, I live near Cleveland and we have a lot of cities nearby that are densly populated with Mexicans and Hispanics. That's why Spanish is my second language. It comes in handy sometimes.



So, what's Mexican for "Please don't steal my car"?


----------



## BoneCrusher (Jan 8, 2007)

DOMS said:


> Very true.  But deploying troops along the border and killing a few Mexicans to as an example would be fairly inexpensive.
> 
> 
> 
> So, what's Mexican for "Please don't steal my car"?



*BANG *... quién está allí?


----------



## Squaggleboggin (Jan 8, 2007)

DOMS said:


> So, what's Mexican for "Please don't steal my car"?



I don't know. But in Spanish, it's "Por favor, no robes mi carro."

So does anyone have a solution that could possibly work? I mean this in the sense that it's practical, effective, and could be promoted by a politician. Although you could argue that the fence might be promoted by a politician - it just depends on which one, I suppose.


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## DOMS (Jan 8, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> I don't know. But in Spanish, it's "Por favor, no robes mi carro."
> 
> So does anyone have a solution that could possibly work? I mean this in the sense that it's practical, effective, and could be promoted by a politician. Although you could argue that the fence might be promoted by a politician - it just depends on which one, I suppose.



Bullets.  Lots and lots of bullets. 

Deploy the Marines and/or the Army along the border.  Have the stop anyone coming through.  Sooner or later, someone will try to shoot their way paste the military and *boom*, alot of dead Mexicans.

Watch what happens to the flow of Mexicans after that.


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## Squaggleboggin (Jan 8, 2007)

DOMS said:


> Bullets.  Lots and lots of bullets.
> 
> Deploy the Marines and/or the Army along the border.  Have the stop anyone coming through.  Sooner or later, someone will try to shoot their way paste the military and *boom*, alot of dead Mexicans.
> 
> Watch what happens to the flow of Mexicans after that.



Who's going to vote for someone who wants to deploy (well, sort of) more troops, though? I doubt most people would support simply shooting and killing anyone who tries to cross the border. Not that it's too far-fetched. After all, you can shoot and kill someone who trespasses on your personal property. Why doesn't the US take a leaf out of that book? Heh.


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## DOMS (Jan 8, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> Who's going to vote for someone who wants to deploy (well, sort of) more troops, though? I doubt most people would support simply shooting and killing anyone who tries to cross the border. Not that it's too far-fetched. After all, you can shoot and kill someone who trespasses on your personal property. Why doesn't the US take a leaf out of that book? Heh.


If we bring some of the troops back from Iraq to US soil, it'll be damn well unanimous.

And the troops would just fire on _any_ civilians.  It would be the first group of chewies that tried to force it's way onto US soil.


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 8, 2007)

Okay so lets sort this out here ... how much per foot will this wall cost us? $1000/foot? $10,000/foot? There are 10,301,280 feet of bordeer from the Cali coast to the Texas gulf.  Lets call it the $10,000/foot number for S&G's.  $10,000 x 10,301,280= $103,012,800,000.  Sounds like a shitload ... untill you do the math.  
$9,000,000,000 per year costs to California tax payers.
$4,700,000,000 per year costs to Texas tax payers.
$3,400,000,000 per year costs to Arizona tax payers.
$3,000,000,000 per year costs to New Mexico tax payers.
$40,000,000,000

Roughly $60,000,000,000 (the most conservative number I could find, others were at over $80bill') saved in one year at the fed and state level for non border states like NYC, New Hampshire, Nebraska, and Ohio.  Do the math and see where the loss is at ... doing this or NOT doing this?  We *looooooose* money for not having this wall.  Now look at lives saved.  How much is a life worth?  Hospitals were forced to close because of illegals.


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## DOMS (Jan 8, 2007)

They should have just let them die.


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## Squaggleboggin (Jan 8, 2007)

That's all well and dandy, and I certainly see the point.

But the question is whether someone in office or potentially in office will a) see the point and b) act.

Additionally, it would require Americans to vote this person into office and then most likely some kind of Congressional approval on top of that.

Looks like the biggest obstacle is educating the American people. Any online polls about this that you know of?


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## maniclion (Jan 8, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> Okay so lets sort this out here ... how much per foot will this wall cost us? $1000/foot? $10,000/foot? There are 10,301,280 feet of bordeer from the Cali coast to the Texas gulf.  Lets call it the $10,000/foot number for S&G's.  $10,000 x 10,301,280= $103,012,800,000.  Sounds like a shitload ... untill you do the math.
> $9,000,000,000 per year costs to California tax payers.
> $4,700,000,000 per year costs to Texas tax payers.
> $3,400,000,000 per year costs to Arizona tax payers.
> ...


I was under the impression we were going to steal China's wall, David Copperfield was going to make it disappear andd re-appear along our southern border.

One guy on the radio this morning said "Tax 8% of all money wire services from the US to Latin America, have that tax pay for the burden they place over here..."


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## DOMS (Jan 8, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> That's all well and dandy, and I certainly see the point.
> 
> But the question is whether someone in office or potentially in office will a) see the point and b) act.
> 
> ...



That's just it.  The American people have taken notice.  That's why the topic of illegal aliens is playing so prominently in politics.  Watch for it to be one of the central issues in the next elections. 

It'll be the Republicans who will make the promise of getting rid of the Mexicans.  The Democrats won't do it because they depend of the Mexican vote.


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## DOMS (Jan 8, 2007)

maniclion said:


> One guy on the radio this morning said "Tax 8% of all money wire services from the US to Latin America, have that tax pay for the burden they place over here..."



A capital idea!


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## Squaggleboggin (Jan 8, 2007)

So what about the $30,000,000,000 already being sent to Mexico by Mexicans already within US borders? Would there simply have to be a follow-up of a purge of illegal aliens to put an end to it?

Also, I'm not sure I understand the math, looking at it a second time. The wall costs $100B (just to round off). Do the costs to each state's taxpayers represent the estimated costs for having illegal aliens in each state, respectively? What's the $40B at the end? Or is the $40B simply a total of all border states, the $60B a total of all non-border states, and you're saying it'll pay for itself in one year? If that's the case, I understand.


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 8, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> So what about the $30,000,000,000 already being sent to Mexico by Mexicans already within US borders? Would there simply have to be a follow-up of a purge of illegal aliens to put an end to it?
> 
> Also, I'm not sure I understand the math, looking at it a second time. The wall costs $100B (just to round off). Do the costs to each state's taxpayers represent the estimated costs for having illegal aliens in each state, respectively? *What's the $40B at the end*? Or is the $40B simply a total of all border states, the $60B a total of all non-border states, and you're saying it'll pay for itself in one year? If that's the case, I understand.


 
The fed has it's own costs, as well as non-border states that I already mentioned. Combined total at the low end was rounded to conservetive $40bill. A bill was in motion to errect 360 miles of fence ... the dems killed it in partisan politics.


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## ABCs (Jan 9, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> The fed has it's own costs, as well as non-border states that I already mentioned. Combined total at the low end was rounded to conservetive $40bill. A bill was in motion to errect 360 miles of fence ... the dems killed it in partisan politics.



And whoever finds that surprising should inject poison into their arms. The liberal scum were talking all this shit about bi-partisan politics then that stretch face bitch, Nanci Palossi takes over the house and we are headed to hell in a hand basket. I mean look at this thing, is she even fucking human? 







It looks like a fucking cyborg out of a sci-fi movie with some human skin draped on top.


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## Burner02 (Jan 9, 2007)

resistance is futile. You will be assimilated...


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## DOMS (Jan 9, 2007)

She's a Democrat pleasuse toy.


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 9, 2007)

She's the first woman speaker of the house ... and the result of BushCo fucking everything up.  We are in bad shape now though ... the dems are gonna make most of my issues worse.


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## ABCs (Jan 9, 2007)

I would rather die then to see that evil bitch Hillary Clinton in office in 2008. Her and her supposed Democratic opponent, Obama Husein Laden (which is his real full name) which will become Hillary's vice president candidate, both have socialist views. Hillary has a front line of socialist advisors that would be right by her side if she were to ever (GOD forbid) win the '08 race. 

/rant


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## min0 lee (Jan 9, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> She's the first woman speaker of the house ... and the result of BushCo fucking everything up. We are in bad shape now though ... the dems are gonna make most of my issues worse.


I don't understand this.....this current administration fucked up badly yet it's the dems fault? 

Sometimes I think Americans would rather see a Dem or a Rep fuck up the country just to prove a point.


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## min0 lee (Jan 9, 2007)

This split between the Dems and the Reps is just  plain stupid.
Lets get together and bring this Country back up......it's really stupid.....


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## bio-chem (Jan 9, 2007)

when in the history of the world has a wall ever been effective?

and mino. both the dems and the republicans fuck up the country.  its just how they choose to fuck it up thats different. i mean there are a lot of ways to cook an egg. and each party has perfected a couple


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## min0 lee (Jan 9, 2007)

bio-chem said:


> when in the history of the world has a wall ever been effective?
> 
> and mino. both the dems and the republicans fuck up the country. its just how they choose to fuck it up thats different. i mean there are a lot of ways to cook an egg. and each party has perfected a couple


Yes, it's true but it seems that people are more focused this stupid feud instead of taking care of business....both parties wind up with eggs on their faces.


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## bio-chem (Jan 9, 2007)

min0 lee said:


> Yes, it's true but it seems that people are more focused this stupid feud instead of taking care of business....both parties wind up with eggs on their faces.



how do you like yours cooked?


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## min0 lee (Jan 9, 2007)

Raw.


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 9, 2007)

min0 lee said:


> I don't understand this.....this current administration fucked up badly yet it's the dems fault?
> 
> Sometimes I think Americans would rather see a Dem or a Rep fuck up the country just to prove a point.


You mixed up what I said so you could then not understand it ... ????

I never said it was the Dems fault that BushCo is a hose job ... how did you connect the two?

The Dems will fuck up immigration laws, tax laws, and will create a weak forign policy leaving us open to attack by a now "kill all things American" world.  I miss the days when the worse fuck up we had to deal with out of the Oval Office was a blow job.


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## ABCs (Jan 10, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> I miss the days when the worse fuck up we had to deal with out of the Oval Office was a blow job.



And him giving nuclear technology to North Korea. The same nuclear tech that Kim Jung Ill threatend us with just a couple months ago. Read between the lines, not what you see on the news.


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## DOMS (Jan 10, 2007)

ABCs said:


> And him giving nuclear technology to North Korea. The same nuclear tech that Kim Jung Ill threatend us with just a couple months ago. Read between the lines, not what you see on the news.



And let us not forget giving away the US to China (in the form of very unbalance concessions and technology) because they help fund the presidents campaign.


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## DOMS (Jan 10, 2007)

Something I received via email:

The Honorable Paul S. Sarbanes     Senate Office Building
   309  Hart
   Washington DC,  20510

   Dear Senator  Sarbanes,

   As a native Marylander and  excellent customer of the Internal  Revenue Service, I am writing to ask for  your assistance. I have contacted the Department of Homeland Security in an  effort to determine the process for becoming an illegal alien and they referred  me to you.

   My primary reason for wishing to  change my status from U.S. Citizen to illegal alien stem from the bill, which  was recently passed by the Senate and for which you voted. If my understanding  of this bill's provisions is accurate, as an illegal alien who has been in the  United  States for five
years, all I need to do to become a  citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine and income taxes for three of the last five  years. I know a good deal when see one and I am anxious to get the process  started before everyone figures it out.

   Simply put, those of us who have  been here legally have had to pay Taxes every year so I'm excited about the  prospect of avoiding two years of taxes in return for paying a $2,000 fine. Is  there any way that I can apply to be illegal retroactively? This would yield an  excellent result    for me and my family because we paid heavy taxes in 2004 and  2005.  

   Additionally, as an illegal alien  I could begin using the local emergency room as my primary health care provider.  Once I have stopped paying premiums for medical insurance, my accountant figures  I could save almost $10,000 a year. Another benefit in gaining illegal status  would be that my daughter would receive preferential treatment relative to her  law school    applications, as well as "in-state" tuition rates for many  colleges throughout the United States for my  son.

   Lastly, I understand that illegal  status would relieve me of the burden of renewing my driver's license and making  those burdensome car insurance premiums. This is very important to me given that  I still have college age children driving my car.

   If you would provide me with an  outline of the process to become illegal (retroactively if possible) and copies  of the necessary forms, I would be most appreciative. Thank you for your  assistance.

Your Loyal  Constituent,

   Pete  McGlaughlin
   Get your Forms (NOW)!! Call your  Internal Revenue Service
   1-800-289-1040.


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 10, 2007)

ABCs said:


> And *him (being CLinton himslef not some asshole he didn't appoint or support) giving nuclear technology to North Korea.* The same nuclear tech that Kim Jung Ill threatend us with just a couple months ago. Read between the lines, not what you see on the news.


Source this ... not form Rush or some kinda Republican think tank sponsored by assholes vs the truth so they can win an election at any cost ... source this with HONESTY.

I'm not a Clinton nut hugger ... just wanna hear how you come to this.  I was a declared Republican on the issues until BushCo came along.  Now I just do *not *want to be aligned with such an evil group of people SO I call myself a GDI.

Anyway ... source this statement ABC.  If you can ...


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 10, 2007)

DOMS said:


> Something I received via email:
> 
> The Honorable Paul S. Sarbanes     Senate Office Building
> 309  Hart
> ...



 ......  ...  ...  ...


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## DOMS (Jan 10, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> ......  ...  ...  ...



If I sign up to be an illegal alien, do you think that trash in the front yard and putting graffiti all over everything come as part of the standard package?


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## maniclion (Jan 10, 2007)

bio-chem said:


> i mean there are a lot of ways to cook an egg. and each party has perfected a couple


So they each have there favorite drugs you mean?  Like the Dems smoke weed and drop acid and stage demonstrations for world peace while the Repubes drink and snort cocaine, while passing out crack to the minorities so that a continuous flow of coke comes into the country to support their habit?  Sounds like a true story....


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## ABCs (Jan 10, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> Source this ... not form Rush or some kinda Republican think tank sponsored by assholes vs the truth so they can win an election at any cost ... source this with HONESTY.
> 
> I'm not a Clinton nut hugger ... just wanna hear how you come to this.  I was a declared Republican on the issues until BushCo came along.  Now I just do *not *want to be aligned with such an evil group of people SO I call myself a GDI.
> 
> Anyway ... source this statement ABC.  If you can ...




Here's 1: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/15/95254.shtml

Here's 2: http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...Clinton+Kim+Jong+ILl&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

He negotiated with a communist country. Gave them nuclear reactors, and had nothing to show for it except for some crazy fucking dictator now has nuclear tech. Clap your hands and pat yoursef on the back Billy boy. The mainstream media never said shit about this did they? Show's how one sided the crap you watch on TV really is. Look deep to find the truth.


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## maniclion (Jan 10, 2007)

ABCs said:


> Here's 1: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/15/95254.shtml
> 
> _*The Agreed Framework collapsed, however, in late 2002, when Kim Jong Il's government admitted it was making nuclear bombs. "As it turns out, they were cheating," Clinton Secretary of State Madeleine Albright later explained.*
> _
> Here's 2: http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...Clinton+Kim+Jong+ILl&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1


Newsmax isn't the news mack...and the second one is harder on Bush for doing nothing after Jong-Ill launched in 2006, after not testing for 7 years after having promised Clinton he wouldn't.....at least Clinton would have said something instead of just looking at him wild-eyed and scared in silence.....


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## ABCs (Jan 10, 2007)

maniclion said:


> Newsmax isn't the news mack...and the second one is harder on Bush for doing nothing after Jong-Ill launched in 2006, after not testing for 7 years after having promised Clinton he wouldn't.....at least Clinton would have said something instead of just looking at him wild-eyed and scared in silence.....



Blindness.


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 10, 2007)

ABCs said:


> Here's 1: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/15/95254.shtml
> 
> Here's 2: http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...Clinton+Kim+Jong+ILl&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
> 
> He negotiated with a communist country. Gave them nuclear reactors, and had nothing to show for it except for some crazy fucking dictator now has nuclear tech. Clap your hands and pat yoursef on the back Billy boy. The mainstream media never said shit about this did they? Show's how one sided the crap you watch on TV really is. Look deep to find the truth.



I'm not sure I like your tone sir.  You seem to imply that _*I*_ am in need of doing all that claping and back patting, and that I am undereducated and uninformed on political matters.  You even stated that I watch "one sided crap" on TV ... 

ABC you seem to be rather rash and excited when you post.  I would ask you to do a better job of researching your topics befor you hit submit.  It will prevent you from making mistakes like this one.  Clinton only made an offer to the crazy fucking dictator to build *and man* a nuclear power station in exchange for giving up their nuclear weapons program.  His deal was refused.  

What Clinton actually did do that was a fucking crime regarding nuclear and non nuclear technology was with one of the other asians ... his scandal was with the Chinese not the Koreans.  Get your facts straight please.

BTW ... please use better links for your sources ... not bullshit ones like what you posted.  The first did nothing to address your claims, although it did discuss the original proposal.  The second had nothing to do with your claims and was shear fluff.


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## min0 lee (Jan 10, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> You mixed up what I said so you could then not understand it ... ????
> 
> I never said it was the Dems fault that BushCo is a hose job ... how did you connect the two?
> 
> The Dems will fuck up immigration laws, tax laws, and will create a weak forign policy leaving us open to attack by a now "kill all things American" world. I miss the days when the worse fuck up we had to deal with out of the Oval Office was a blow job.


 

My fault, I had a caffeine rush when I read/wrote that.


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## min0 lee (Jan 10, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> Source this ... not form Rush or some kinda Republican think tank sponsored by assholes vs the truth so they can win an election at any cost ... source this with HONESTY.
> 
> I'm not a Clinton nut hugger ... just wanna hear how you come to this. I was a declared Republican on the issues until BushCo came along. Now I just do *not *want to be aligned with such an evil group of people SO I call myself a GDI.
> 
> Anyway ... source this statement ABC. If you can ...


I didn't know all this.


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## NordicNacho (Jan 11, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> I'm not sure I like your tone sir.  You seem to imply that _*I*_ am in need of doing all that claping and back patting, and that I am undereducated and uninformed on political matters.  You even stated that I watch "one sided crap" on TV ...
> 
> ABC you seem to be rather rash and excited when you post.  I would ask you to do a better job of researching your topics befor you hit submit.  It will prevent you from making mistakes like this one.  Clinton only made an offer to the crazy fucking dictator to build *and man* a nuclear power station in exchange for giving up their nuclear weapons program.  His deal was refused.
> 
> ...




You don't know what your talking about!  That shit was a Republican Witch Hunt!  The Feds had to pay him 1.6 million for compensation!  Look it up  No more bullshit links please.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wen_Ho_Lee


Bush tryed to help out by putting information on the internet for everyone to use what a nice guy

http://digg.com/users/badinfluence/news/dugg


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## americanwit (Jan 11, 2007)

Are you being sarcastic saying Bush is a nice guy?


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## NordicNacho (Jan 11, 2007)

sort of but hes a nice guy though if your a oil company


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## BoneCrusher (Jan 11, 2007)

NordicNacho said:


> You don't know what your talking about! That shit was a Republican Witch Hunt! The Feds had to pay him 1.6 million for compensation! Look it up No more bullshit links please.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wen_Ho_Lee
> 
> ...


 
I do know what I'm talking about.  You don't know what you're reading about ... or chose not to read and understand the post.  I wasn't reffering to just the tech blunder ... there were a few ... but also the fund raising issues.  Clinton made several fuck-ups with his Chinese connections.  The fuck-ups are a matter of record and have nothing to do with the Republican's attempts to stick it too him.  That was all him and Hillary ...


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## Souped_up (Jan 14, 2007)

Im sick of these republicans and democrats not making a secure border.  I don'te ven care about iraq that much Immigration issue is what i really care about.


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## danny81 (Dec 29, 2007)

DOMS said:


> You're right.  We should just kill them all.



i agree 100%


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## Little Wing (Dec 29, 2007)

Vieope said:


> _Why dont you put mines? It is cheaper and way more effective. Is that allowed?_


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