# My delts disgust me; someone chime in



## WendysBaconator (Jul 5, 2011)

I have no idea wtf to do with my delts. The rear delts are disgustingly lagging, my medial delts are terrible.  My next few workouts, should i focus on rear delts and lateral raises first, presses last?

Ive been doing my presses first always but with a rep range of 6 - 8 . Would switching to 12 - 15 bring more growth? Someone


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## minimal (Jul 5, 2011)

I actually do more volume for my shoulder for this reason.  I always incorporate both pressing movements and raises.


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## x~factor (Jul 5, 2011)

WendysBaconator said:


> I have no idea wtf to do with my delts. The rear delts are disgustingly lagging, my medial delts are terrible.  My next few workouts, should i focus on rear delts and lateral raises first, presses last?
> 
> Ive been doing my presses first always but with a rep range of 6 - 8 . Would switching to 12 - 15 bring more growth? Someone



If its lagging after a few months/years of training then whatever you were doing wasn't working (duh ). So do the opposite. Go from low reps to high reps. Low volume to high. Change the exercise from barbell to dumbells...  or vice versa. See if that works for you at all. 

Personally, what eventually worked for me is heavy dumbell presses in low reps (2-4 reps) and making sure I up the reps or weight after a few workouts. Prior to that I was doing tons of lateral raises and shoulder press machines, not keeping track or logging anything.


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## Calves of Steel (Jul 5, 2011)

a few ideas:
-Make sure your back is up to par with your shoulders/chest. Rear delts are very involved in back lifts the same way front delts are very involved in chest exercises.
-Do rear delts with back, and with shoulders.
-When doing bent over laterals hold with all of your fingers except your thumb and bend a little bit at the top. Seems to hit better that way.
-Some people respond better to volume, some respond better to weight. Maybe do a few extra sets, or some drop sets.

Every once in a while i'll do the rear delt raises first like you said. Kind of kills the presses, but then I end up doing an extra set or two.


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## buddhaluv (Jul 5, 2011)

shoulders are my best bodypart. they don't call me diamond delts for nothin yenno (; haha jk but let me help you out.

do a routine consisting of presses & raises. high volume & stay in the rep range of 6-15.

Seated Dumbell Press x3
Seated Smith machine Press x3
Standing Dumbell Side Laterals x3
Reverse Pec Deck x3
Rear Delt Cable Pulls x3 - YouTube - ‪Shock And Awe Rear Deltoid Cable Pulls‬‏ (I prefer to remove the handles & just hold onto those balls, it's alot comfortable for me)

For me, I usually don't train front delts, since they are already trained ALOT on chest day, however it's all up to you. & be sure to ALWAYS have your shoulder day atleast 48 hours away from your chest or you'll have a high chance of overtraining & going catabolic.

On all exercises focus on 2 warm-up sets consisting of 10-15 reps& your last set until failure @ around 6-8 Reps. Go heavier each set. search up dorian yates style training if you have a chance.

so for example, this is what my shoulder Dumbell Press set would look like.

set 1 - 50lb x 15 reps
set 2 - 70lb x 10 reps
set 3 - 90lb x 6 reps (to failure)

avoid resting for more than 1 min between sets. keep intensity high & the workout under 1 hour. 

neways, good luck in rounding them delts. soon to be boulders (;


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## CG (Jul 5, 2011)

Being one who hasn't concentrated on these too much Ican only advise so much. But, best progress I've personally seen was 5x5 or 4x4 for your first exercise, increasing weight till you hit 5rm. I've only really discussed it with 2 or 3 people though, and you know everyone is different. Based on what you've been doing, I would say try the 5x5 or 4x4 on say overhead db\bb\military presses, use the rest as an accessory.

Good luck!

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk


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## zoco (Jul 5, 2011)

Sorry to disappoint you buddy but that's genetics.Yes,you can improve your shoulders (i have sh***y shoulders too) but they will always look bad when compared to someone who has good genetics.Do a lot of rowing - especially barbell rows as they hit rear as well as medial delts.

Also after your main exercise you can try some explosive movement like hang clean and press (choose your weight wisely here).


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## Anabolic5150 (Jul 6, 2011)

Try giving them their own day. Maybe do something like this,

Dumbbell side laterals 3x8-12
Reverse Pek Deck 3x10-12
Nose Pulls 3x8-12
Military Press (machine, smith, you are pre fatigued) 3x8-12

My delts are pretty good and i used a routine very similar to this in building them.


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## trapzilla (Jul 6, 2011)

My delts used to lag, not my front ones but medial and rear did.
so i hit laterals after chest for 4 sets of standing laterals, and rear delts after back for 4 sets bent over laterals

I then also did a shoulder day where i did;
cable laterals
standing laterals
seated db presses
wide upright rows
cable rear dely flyes
bent over rear lateral
trap work

that way the focus is on all heads except the front and each medial and rear heads are preexhausted individually by a cable movement before their free weight moves


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## dk1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Just started doing hanging clean and press.  A killer delt exercise.  I do this twice per week.  First work out 4x7.  Second work out 2x12.  Add bent over dumbell raises for posterior delt each workout 3x10.


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## Captn'stabbin (Jul 6, 2011)

two exercises per head is what i usually do. But someone said it earlier, change it up from whatever you are doing.


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## Curt James (Jul 6, 2011)

Anabolic5150 said:


> *Try giving them their own day.* Maybe do something like this,
> 
> Dumbbell side laterals 3x8-12
> Reverse Pek Deck 3x10-12
> ...



This, but if you're a hard gainer then I'd argue against too much volume. 
I'd stick with seated dumbbell presses and reverse pek deck for a total of 6 to 8 sets.

What's your body fat percentage? Leaner will have your delts popping more visually than if you're on the heavy side.

Pics would help wrt evaluation, of course.

I have narrow shoulders with not a lotta meat, so gotta say I empathize with you.


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## WendysBaconator (Jul 6, 2011)

I honestly think its been my whole training routine. I train the rest of my body fairly heavy so i did the same with delts thinking itll work.  Theres an NPC amateur i talk to regularly; he placed top 8 in the nationals a few years, i asked him and he told for shoulders he believes high volume is needed because of the difference of muscle fibers or some crap like that. Anyone got any input on that?


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## ecot3c inside (Jul 6, 2011)

I love my delts and my traps it's actually the only thing going for (basically all upper body) my biceps and triceps is a stuggle for me because my arms are kind of longer than most, so in a sense I would have to have a bigger upper body for my monkey arms.


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## Built (Jul 6, 2011)

I had no delts at all. Then I started doing hang cleans and Olympic bar corner presses. 

Try this: Got Built? » The Shoulders of Giants


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## Anabolic5150 (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm gonna throw this out, it comes from Dante Trudel, aka Doggcrapp of DC training. Dante says sometimes, you gotta get freaky with your training. Experiment. If low reps aren't working, get freaky with it, do 100 rep sets if that's what it takes. I honestly hate going to the gym with a set routine. I do it, but some of my biggest growth periods were when I was getting freaky with my training. Did something like this one time, it's not exact but it's the best I can remember,

Seated shoulder press 4x25 reps
Machine side laterals supersetted with reverse Pek Deck 4x25-30 reps
Smith shoulder presses 4 drop sets to failure
Upright rows 1 set of 100 reps

Just got damn freaky with it, used to do crazy shit just trying to grow. So maybe fellas, it's time to get freaky!!


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## Curt James (Jul 6, 2011)

WendysBaconator said:


> I honestly think its been my whole training routine. I train the rest of my body fairly heavy so i did the same with delts thinking itll work.  Theres an NPC amateur i talk to regularly; he placed top 8 in the nationals a few years, i asked him and he told for shoulders he believes high volume is needed because of the difference of muscle fibers or some crap like that. *Anyone got any input on that?*



You've received, what, five or six different responses or strategies. Pick one and attack!

Fwiw, just because someone does well at Nationals doesn't mean their advice will work on your body. Who mentioned genetics? Drugs are another variable. And, of course, your eating and intensity regardless of volume.

Again, pick a strategy and give it 8 to 10 weeks. Good luck!  



ecot3c inside said:


> I love my delts and my traps it's actually the only thing going for (basically all upper body) my biceps and triceps is a stuggle for me because my arms are kind of longer than most, so in a sense I would have to have a bigger upper body for *my monkey arms.*



My knuckles drag on the ground, too. _Pass the bananas, brother. 
_


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## ecot3c inside (Jul 6, 2011)

Curt James said:


> My knuckles drag on the ground, too. _Pass the bananas, brother.
> _



   never heard that one before!!


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## Curt James (Jul 6, 2011)

Anabolic5150 said:


> Just got damn freaky with it, used to do crazy shit just trying to grow. So maybe fellas, it's time to get freaky!!



*WEIDER SHOCK PRINCIPLE!!!*


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## WendysBaconator (Jul 6, 2011)

Built said:


> I had no delts at all. Then I started doing hang cleans and Olympic bar corner presses.
> 
> Try this: Got Built? » The Shoulders of Giants


 
Good read thanks man


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## WendysBaconator (Jul 6, 2011)

Anabolic5150 said:


> I'm gonna throw this out, it comes from Dante Trudel, aka Doggcrapp of DC training. Dante says sometimes, you gotta get freaky with your training. Experiment. If low reps aren't working, get freaky with it, do 100 rep sets if that's what it takes. I honestly hate going to the gym with a set routine. I do it, but some of my biggest growth periods were when I was getting freaky with my training. Did something like this one time, it's not exact but it's the best I can remember,
> 
> Seated shoulder press 4x25 reps
> Machine side laterals supersetted with reverse Pek Deck 4x25-30 reps
> ...


 
Amen to this. Fk it, i got nothing to lose.  Im not going on cycle until this winter but i can still add some growth to my delts natty. I refuse to believe i just have no delts...


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## Anabolic5150 (Jul 7, 2011)

WendysBaconator said:


> Amen to this. Fk it, i got nothing to lose.  Im not going on cycle until this winter but i can still add some growth to my delts natty. I refuse to believe i just have no delts...



Whatever you are doing, do the opposite for 8 weeks or so and gauge progress. Like you said, you have nothing to lose. In fact, this thread has got me thinking a lot about my own training, think it's time to get "freaky" with it!!


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## Built (Jul 7, 2011)

Just watch it with some of the movements. I don't like upright rows at all, much less for a 100-rep set where any hope of keeping your form goes out the window.


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## lee111s (Jul 7, 2011)

Military press and shoulder press with dumbells to start with. Then I do a set of 28's. I got the idea from this video YouTube - ‪KILLER SHOULDER WORKOUT‬‏ Since I've been doing them my shoulders have came on great. Give it a whirl!


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## Anabolic5150 (Jul 7, 2011)

Built said:


> Just watch it with some of the movements. I don't like upright rows at all, much less for a 100-rep set where any hope of keeping your form goes out the window.



I don't even do them anymore, but I was young and dumb during the 100 rep days!! LOL


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## sassy69 (Jul 7, 2011)

Anabolic5150 said:


> I don't even do them anymore, but I was young and dumb during the 100 rep days!! LOL



Another thing is to keep in mind that many things like side laterals and such are not tightly supported moves - its not really necessary to worry about going really heavy with them. The rotator cuff is a complex joint and its easy to strain it- so always make sure you can keep form at whatever weight + rep count you're doing. People tend to get hung up on not being able to lift heavy weights on these exercises, even tho they can move big weights on more supported lifts.  This can just lead you down the path of getting injured. Once you start stressing joints like knees & rotators, they can get tweaky and never really be 100% "right" again so you want to avoid the situation in the first place if you can.


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## SloppyJ (Jul 7, 2011)

Fuck yes on the barbell corner press. I cant wait to try that tomorrow!


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## Anabolic5150 (Jul 7, 2011)

sassy69 said:


> Another thing is to keep in mind that many things like side laterals and such are not tightly supported moves - its not really necessary to worry about going really heavy with them. The rotator cuff is a complex joint and its easy to strain it- so always make sure you can keep form at whatever weight + rep count you're doing. People tend to get hung up on not being able to lift heavy weights on these exercises, even tho they can move big weights on more supported lifts.  This can just lead you down the path of getting injured. Once you start stressing joints like knees & rotators, they can get tweaky and never really be 100% "right" again so you want to avoid the situation in the first place if you can.



Tore my right rotator cuff in 2005 so I can totally relate. I use about 1/2 to 2/3 of the weight I used before on side laterals and actually mix in a lot of machine work to keep form tight. I know "leave my ego at the door" and concentrate on stimulating the muscle and not feeding my ego with the look at how much I can lift bullshit.


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## sassy69 (Jul 7, 2011)

Anabolic5150 said:


> Tore my right rotator cuff in 2005 so I can totally relate. I use about 1/2 to 2/3 of the weight I used before on side laterals and actually mix in a lot of machine work to keep form tight. I know "leave my ego at the door" and concentrate on stimulating the muscle and not feeding my ego with the look at how much I can lift bullshit.



Its tough- I had my shoulder scoped in 2008 and after it healed + rehab, it was strong as ever. But then I tweaked it doing too-heavy Arnold presses a week before my last competition (i.e. depleted) and even w/ 4 months off frm the gym its as screwed up as ever. I can start out lifting reasonably heavy, but it gets tired out so fast its scary. Crap. Makes me feel like I should only lift pink weights and should keep my walker & oxygen tank w/ me at all times.


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## Anabolic5150 (Jul 7, 2011)

sassy69 said:


> Its tough- I had my shoulder scoped in 2008 and after it healed + rehab, it was strong as ever. But then I tweaked it doing too-heavy Arnold presses a week before my last competition (i.e. depleted) and even w/ 4 months off frm the gym its as screwed up as ever. I can start out lifting reasonably heavy, but it gets tired out so fast its scary. Crap. Makes me feel like I should only lift pink weights and should keep my walker & oxygen tank w/ me at all times.



You are way far from pink weights, oxygen tank and a walker Sassy, I'm closer then you. It's hard to adjust when you see the weights used decline, but I know I can still grow and make improvements in my physique by still using lighter weights. Not light weights, but not the insanely heavy shit I used to lift. I guess I've finally gotten smarter!! LOL


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## zoco (Jul 8, 2011)

dk1 said:


> Just started doing hanging clean and press.  A killer delt exercise.  I do this twice per week.  First work out 4x7.  Second work out 2x12.  Add bent over dumbell raises for posterior delt each workout 3x10.



Give this workout some time. Add wide grip barbell rows in your back workout also


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## Merkaba (Jul 8, 2011)

Again....What is your diet like?  Trying to lose weight or gain weight?  So many people post like this and they're eating  at a deficit, damn near it, or don't have a clue. Make sure you're eating to gain or forget about it!   I seldom do direct shoulder work.  Only basic compounds.  Bench, pull ups, rows, military, dips...I don't do cleans but when i did they were surely good.  I may start back.


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## Curt James (Jul 8, 2011)

WendysBaconator said:


> Amen to this. Fk it, i got nothing to lose.  Im not going on cycle until this winter but i can still add some growth to my delts natty. *I refuse to believe i just have no delts...*



I do, too. You got pics of these non-delts? I mean, can they really be that bad? 



lee111s said:


> Military press and shoulder press with dumbells to start with. Then I do a set of 28's. I got the idea from this video
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Never heard of that guy. Good stuff.


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## Curt James (Jul 8, 2011)

sassy69 said:


> Its tough- I had my shoulder scoped in 2008 and after it healed + rehab, it was strong as ever. But then I tweaked it doing too-heavy Arnold presses a week before my last competition (i.e. depleted) and even w/ 4 months off frm the gym its as screwed up as ever. I can start out lifting reasonably heavy, but it gets tired out so fast its scary. Crap. *Makes me feel like I should only lift pink weights *and should keep my walker & oxygen tank w/ me at all times.



Just as a gag, I purchased a set of pink one-pounders for the local Gold's _twice!_ Both pair of dumbbells disappeared. Don't know if they offended someone at the gym by their mere presence or if someone took them home each time. lol


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