# Girls have it easier!



## Mike Tuvre USA (Apr 23, 2006)

I live in a CA beach town, and it is a fact that most girls can watch what they eat and maybe take walks and look friggin amazing in a bikini.  A muscular girl is just icing on the cake (if you like it).  Many hot females just have to stay a bit lean and firm.  If a guy wants to stay lean and firm he ends up looking like a ballet dancer (like I did years ago).  Guys have to kick ass on the weights, diet, and balance the 2 with cutting in summer.  I hope women realize how little they need to do to look great.  The media only talks about how hard it is for women to get or keep a great body.

Sorry for the rant.  I've been cutting for months and it is insanly hard!  This is after bulking forever!  See what I mean?


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## Desirea7208 (Apr 23, 2006)

It is very hard for women to do as well.


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## LexusGS (Apr 23, 2006)

I see where you're coming from.


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## Steele20 (Apr 23, 2006)

"It is very hard for women to do as well."

his point is it's easier for women to look hot! So true.


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## Trouble (Apr 23, 2006)

Bullshit!  Women have higher estrogen levels.  We put on fat easier; muscle mass is harder for many to build and maintain (except for those of us with, ahh, insulin to spare, it serving as an excellent anabolic agent when insulin sensitivity is maximized).

The socially proscribed body form for women is still the skinny fat look.  The old problem with a lack of a bust a lower body weight has been met with surgical implants for chest and ass.  

The skinny-fat look is not healthy.  Many women abuse weightloss drugs and stimulants to achieve this look, rather than using adequate nutrient intake and exercise to produce a firm and healthy bodyshape.

With a lower BMR, you won't find many of the skinny-fat women eating and drinking heartily when they go out, unless they exercise OR use other much less healthy measures for weight control - like smoking.

Its a misconception that women have it easier than men when it comes to body shape control.


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## Steele20 (Apr 23, 2006)

Trouble said:
			
		

> Bullshit!  Women have higher estrogen levels.  We put on fat easier; muscle mass is harder for many to build and maintain (except for those of us with, ahh, insulin to spare, it serving as an excellent anabolic agent when insulin sensitivity is maximized).
> 
> The socially proscribed body form for women is still the skinny fat look.  The old problem with a lack of a bust a lower body weight has been met with surgical implants for chest and ass.
> 
> ...




you can't handle the truth!


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## BritChick (Apr 23, 2006)

Mike Tuvre said:
			
		

> it is a fact that most girls can watch what they eat and maybe take walks and look friggin amazing in a bikini



what a load of shit!!!


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## Squaggleboggin (Apr 23, 2006)

I'm just curious whether you have experience as a woman trying to lose weight to validate these claims. Many more women who may seem 'hot' really have serious diseases (bolemia, anemia, etc) than men who are equally fit. Either that or the men are very good at hiding it.


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## GFR (Apr 23, 2006)

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showpost.php?p=1325488&postcount=19
#9


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## min0 lee (Apr 23, 2006)

Mike Tuvre said:
			
		

> I live in a CA beach town, and it is a fact that most girls can watch what they eat and maybe take walks and look friggin amazing in a bikini.


 

You have to be kidding? 
I can bet you that most of those girls you see on the beach are teenagers.....once you hit a certain age.........


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## GFR (Apr 23, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> You have to be kidding?
> I can bet you that most of those girls you see on the beach are teenagers.....once you hit a certain age.........


http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showpost.php?p=1325488&postcount=1
# 18


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## LexusGS (Apr 23, 2006)

Trouble said:
			
		

> Bullshit!


Relax.



			
				BritChick said:
			
		

> what a load of shit!!!


Control yourself.


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## Trouble (Apr 23, 2006)

>I'm just curious whether you have experience as a woman trying to lose weight to validate these claims. 

I do.  I've been the skinny fat type in the past (at 21, 105 lbs at 5'5"). I stayed that way for quite a while, then had a progressively worse time maintaining a low bodymass weight as insulin insensitivity set in in my 30s, due to poor diet, lack of sleep, and stress issues.

Compare that against fitting into the same size clothing (US size 4) at 135 lbs, some 25 yrs later.  Big difference in both fat mass and muscle mass.  

For men, with significantly higher testosterone production, anabolic and androgenic effects make it substantially easier to attain and retain lean muscle mass and reduced fat mass, far easier  than the task of trying to achieve similar percentages of muscle and fat body composition for women of all ages.  

>Many more women who may seem 'hot' really have serious diseases (bolemia, anemia, etc) than men who are equally fit. 

That, and they abuse weight loss drugs / stims  and diuretics.

>Either that or the men are very good at hiding it.

Interesting.  With a progressive change in diet and lifestyle over the past decade, and in the younger generations, a proliferation of interest in the so-called "skater physique", you see a lot of pretty lean and non muscular young men.  

Wonder how they fare for testosterone production at say, 25 or 30?


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## themamasan (Apr 23, 2006)

I think this thread should have said. 

"Girls have it easier...financially".


I don't know of a single female that is not fat, but a decent weight and in shape, who spends anywhere close to the amount of money that I do for food.

But, I guess if I were a smaller male, that would be easier on the pocketbook as well.


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## Mike Tuvre USA (Apr 23, 2006)

All I meant was that girls look good when they stay firm and don't get fat.  I know too many females like this (even over 30).  Guys who just do this look lousy.  I have excellent willpower with my diet, and I love sports which will keep me firm and toned.  If I do this ONLY I will look like crap.  If I lift some weights ONLY I will look like crap.  If I bulk and get big ONLY I will look like crap without cutting.  If I cut too fast, I will look like crap.  Sheesh.


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## min0 lee (Apr 23, 2006)

Mike Tuvre said:
			
		

> All I meant was that girls look good when they stay firm and don't get fat. I know too many females like this (even over 30). Guys who just do this look lousy. I have excellent willpower with my diet, and I love sports which will keep me firm and toned. If I do this ONLY I will *look like crap*. If I lift some weights ONLY I will *look like crap*. If I bulk and get big ONLY I will *look like crap* without cutting. If I cut too fast, I will *look like crap*. Sheesh.


 
You may be on to something.


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## P-funk (Apr 23, 2006)

Nobody knows more then min0 lee how hard it is to maintain a nice girlish figure.


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## MyK (Apr 23, 2006)

fat bitchez are more comfy anyway.


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## min0 lee (Apr 23, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> Nobody knows more then min0 lee how hard it is to maintain a nice girlish figure.


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## themamasan (Apr 23, 2006)

Mike Tuvre said:
			
		

> All I meant was that girls look good when they stay firm and don't get fat.  I know too many females like this (even over 30).  Guys who just do this look lousy.  I have excellent willpower with my diet, and I love sports which will keep me firm and toned.  If I do this ONLY I will look like crap.  If I lift some weights ONLY I will look like crap.  If I bulk and get big ONLY I will look like crap without cutting.  If I cut too fast, I will look like crap.  Sheesh.




Yeah, I know what you mean.  In the past I had a six pack, well toned, but skinny to the point I looked like shit.  Now I am 60 lbs heavier, a good 40lbs of muscle, but the little bit of fat around my waist and belly makes me look bad.


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## SubliminalX (Apr 23, 2006)

I agree, girls can look hot with comparatively lower effort than men.  That's because their "ideal" look is one that is acheived through catabolism.  For men, it's the other way around.  And in nature, things are broken down easier than they are built up.  

But that also means it's easier to find a hot woman and more competition among women.  With men, once you get into lifting and eating fairly clean, and with at least average genetics, you'll blow right by 95% of the male population, especially in fat countries like the US and Western Europe.


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## Squaggleboggin (Apr 23, 2006)

Trouble said:
			
		

> >I'm just curious whether you have experience as a woman trying to lose weight to validate these claims.
> 
> I do. I've been the skinny fat type in the past (at 21, 105 lbs at 5'5"). I stayed that way for quite a while, then had a progressively worse time maintaining a low bodymass weight as insulin insensitivity set in in my 30s, due to poor diet, lack of sleep, and stress issues.
> 
> ...



That was actually directed at the thread starter. I forgot to submit the message and by the time I did, others posted. Sorry if that was confusing, but that wasn't directed at all towards you.


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## JordanMang (Apr 23, 2006)

I don't think you can really post this unless you've considered this question - Would you rather be a woman or man? I'd much rather have the ability to put on more muscle naturally in 1 year then most women can in 5 years.


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## MyK (Apr 23, 2006)

#9


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## Bakerboy (Apr 23, 2006)

Good genetics are always nice too. Some people, (both men and woman) have to work really hard to get the body they want. Other people can get by doing very little, because of their age (if they are younger) and or great genetics. 

But I think this thread brings up an interesting point about our expectations of ourselves compared to our expectations of other people. For me, I know I am a lot harder on myself than I am of other people. 

To me it's all about looking and feeling healthy, not just obsessing about being super skinny (like many men and woman fall prey to) or super built, just fit. People who look happy with the bodies they inahabit are the one to be jelious of, to me, they are the sexy ones, the ones that aren't obsessed with their image...the ones that don't look like they are trying... 

Saying that, I know a woman who has such an amazing toned body (not a skinny fat chick either) and all she does is ride an old single speed around. She is 40 and she looks way hotter than any 20 year old I have seen. She doesn't even realize how hot she is, which is so funny. When I was over at her place, last week, I saw a picture of her father (a very fit, nimble, old man) and then one of her mother (fit and firm too) and I just shook my head. Good genetics can go a long way....

Which makes me think about a great t-shirt I saw on a guy (a pudgy, guy, not fat just not in shape with a little extra cushion around his belly). The shirt said in bold: 

*"No expectations. No disappointments." *        So true...


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## ablc (Apr 23, 2006)

SubliminalX said:
			
		

> I agree, girls can look hot with comparatively lower effort than men.  That's because their "ideal" look is one that is acheived through catabolism.  For men, it's the other way around.  And in nature, things are broken down easier than they are built up.



I'm calling bull on this one.  Just based on personal experience, no science.  
Just having eaten a can of tuna a day for a couple of months (it's 2.5servings, ya know?), and feeling guilty about the calories I got from toothpaste and mouthwash, because I couldn't figure out what they were, so I couldn't count them, and running 6.5miles/day, to create a 500cal deficit, ya know...because what's an RMR?  Just have to run off the tuna and then create the deficit, right?  
Repeat over almost two decades, including years before I can remember, and then ask the people on here who know what I lift what I've done since August...see how easy it is for a girl to lose weight vs. get strong.


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## Bakerboy (Apr 23, 2006)

Sorry, too drunk, can't spell. (foreman help me)


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## fufu (Apr 23, 2006)

I don't think it is easier for females. All the girls with good bodies at my old high school worked out consistantly.


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## SubliminalX (Apr 23, 2006)

ablc said:
			
		

> I'm calling bull on this one.  Just based on personal experience, no science.
> Just having eaten a can of tuna a day for a couple of months (it's 2.5servings, ya know?), and feeling guilty about the calories I got from toothpaste and mouthwash, because I couldn't figure out what they were, so I couldn't count them, and running 6.5miles/day, to create a 500cal deficit, ya know...because what's an RMR?  Just have to run off the tuna and then create the deficit, right?
> Repeat over almost two decades, including years before I can remember, and then ask the people on here who know what I lift what I've done since August...see how easy it is for a girl to lose weight vs. get strong.



That's pretty extreme, maybe you just have bad genetics.  But all things being equal: 

A guy and gal, both with average genetics, I say the gal can more easily get closer to an ideal "attractive" look than a man can.  Remember, we're talking comparisons on an equal level and within the context of Western social standards of attractiveness, not case studies of individuals.


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## ablc (Apr 23, 2006)

Except that my behaviour wasn't all that abnormal relative to the girls I knew in highschool.  Certainly there were plenty of normal girls, but I wasn't even the most neurotic.  There was a girl who had a breakdown after learning that PepsiOne had a calorie.  As far as I know, I'm the only one who was put on a diet at birth, but I wasn't the only one doing whacked out things by elementary school.
Thing is, the longer you starve, the more you have to starve...it's just a downward spiral health-wise, and not so much weight-wise.


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## MyK (Apr 23, 2006)

girls have it so easy, all they have to do is eat clean and they look good. most of them fuck that up though!!!


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## SubliminalX (Apr 23, 2006)

ablc said:
			
		

> Except that my behaviour wasn't all that abnormal relative to the girls I knew in highschool.  Certainly there were plenty of normal girls, but I wasn't even the most neurotic.  There was a girl who had a breakdown after learning that PepsiOne had a calorie.  As far as I know, I'm the only one who was put on a diet at birth, but I wasn't the only one doing whacked out things by elementary school.
> Thing is, the longer you starve, the more you have to starve...it's just a downward spiral health-wise, and not so much weight-wise.



I still think you're talking about extreme cases.  My ex GF did a little running a few times a week and ate sensibly.  Salads, rice, soup... occasional junk food.  Not malnourished at all.  She had a nice body.  Not like a swimsuit model or anything, but definately makes guys notice.  I can find plenty of 18-25 women like that. 

An attractive look for a female can be up to 25-30% BF, so long as she isn't sporting a spare tire or cellulite on the thighs.  For women it's mostly about ratios, which can be achieved without necessarily being thin or lean.  

Here's what I think an average gal with average genetics can look like with a little effort:







But a guy who's 25-30% BF?  Disgusting.  10% BF with little muscle mass like Edward Norton in fight club?  Weak.   

A typical gal can be a "babe" a lot easier than a typical man can be a "stud."  For the most part, men need to be lean AND muscular to achieve that.  Women just need the right ratios.


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## Brutus_G (Apr 23, 2006)

I agree that girls have it easier food wise. I mean my food bill is huge. Girls have more estrogen which makes losing fat harder and building tone sexy muscle(even if they only need a little) also becomes a time consuming process. Girls (if my mom,sister,friend,and poeple i've met are anything to go by) don't like poeple watching them lift, which makes lifting heavy hard and heavier harder. Then they must contend with that time of the month in which they turn...well you know.


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## Mudge (Apr 24, 2006)

themamasan said:
			
		

> I don't know of a single female that is not fat, but a decent weight and in shape, who spends anywhere close to the amount of money that I do for food.



Do you buy makeup or lingerie for yourself? Do you make less statistically than your male counterpart?


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## CowPimp (Apr 24, 2006)

Some men have it tough and so do some women.  Some women have it easy and so do some men.  A women or a man can be born with amazing genetics or crappy genetics.


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## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 24, 2006)

Mike Tuvre said:
			
		

> I live in a CA beach town, and it is a fact that most girls can watch what they eat and maybe take walks and look friggin amazing in a bikini.  A muscular girl is just icing on the cake (if you like it).  Many hot females just have to stay a bit lean and firm.  If a guy wants to stay lean and firm he ends up looking like a ballet dancer (like I did years ago).  Guys have to kick ass on the weights, diet, and balance the 2 with cutting in summer.  I hope women realize how little they need to do to look great.  The media only talks about how hard it is for women to get or keep a great body.
> 
> Sorry for the rant.  I've been cutting for months and it is insanly hard!  This is after bulking forever!  See what I mean?


are you serious? we store more fat dude. i guess it depends on what type of body a chick is looking to achieve but i work my ass off and am not even close to where i wanna be. stop with your pity party man...


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## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 24, 2006)

Trouble said:
			
		

> Bullshit!  Women have higher estrogen levels.  We put on fat easier; muscle mass is harder for many to build and maintain (except for those of us with, ahh, insulin to spare, it serving as an excellent anabolic agent when insulin sensitivity is maximized).
> 
> The socially proscribed body form for women is still the skinny fat look.  The old problem with a lack of a bust a lower body weight has been met with surgical implants for chest and ass.
> 
> ...


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## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 24, 2006)

Mike Tuvre said:
			
		

> All I meant was that girls look good when they stay firm and don't get fat.  I know too many females like this (even over 30).  Guys who just do this look lousy.  I have excellent willpower with my diet, and I love sports which will keep me firm and toned.  If I do this ONLY I will look like crap.  If I lift some weights ONLY I will look like crap.  If I bulk and get big ONLY I will look like crap without cutting.  If I cut too fast, I will look like crap.  Sheesh.


muscles do not 'tone', they grow and shrink.

maybe try a clean bulk next time so you won't have so much excess to take off.


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## jwg (Apr 24, 2006)

All of the good looking women/girls at my gym do is cardio.

They never do weights, except for maybe some leg curls and that butt blaster thing.

Sometimes I wish I could get away with just doing that.


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## GFR (Apr 24, 2006)

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=63939


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## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 24, 2006)

jwg said:
			
		

> All of the good looking women/girls at my gym do is cardio.
> 
> They never do weights, except for maybe some leg curls and that butt blaster thing.
> 
> Sometimes I wish I could get away with just doing that.


are you kidding  women CAN'T get away with doing only that unless they wanna look like skinny fats.

women with REAL muscle that DON'T wanna look like a damn twig NEED to train just as hard as men do my friend. there are some of us that ACTUALLY train. i swear cardio bunnies make all of us look bad. good grief.


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## jwg (Apr 24, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> are you kidding  women CAN'T get away with doing only that unless they wanna look like skinny fats.
> 
> women with REAL muscle that DON'T wanna look like a damn twig NEED to train just as hard as men do my friend. there are some of us that ACTUALLY train. i swear cardio bunnies make all of us look bad. good grief.



No, I'm not kidding about the ones in my gym doing just that and looking good.

You'd think weights were kryptonite to most of them.

I guess some people just have it easier than others.


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## Jodi (Apr 24, 2006)

This is all such CRAP!

Women got the short of end of the straw:

1.  Hormones
2.  Menstrual Cycle
3.  More VAT for organ protection for pregnancy
4.  Slower metabolisms/nutrient partitioning
5.  We have to eat a LOT less to lose
6.  We can't build muscle like men due to higher estrogen and lower testosterone - again, hormones
7.  We have to deal with monthly water retention.
8.  We have to due a lot more cardio than most men
9.  Our BMR's are much lower

Here is an article I just found that might explain some.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,,1732124,00.html#article_continue


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## Spud (Apr 24, 2006)

I think all he was trying to say is that the average female looks better than the average male. Which is true, unless you're gay... or female.


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## Jodi (Apr 24, 2006)

Mike Tuvre said:
			
		

> I live in a CA beach town, and it is a fact that most girls can watch what they eat and maybe take walks and look friggin amazing in a bikini.  A muscular girl is just icing on the cake (if you like it).  Many hot females just have to stay a bit lean and firm.  If a guy wants to stay lean and firm he ends up looking like a ballet dancer (like I did years ago).  Guys have to kick ass on the weights, diet, and balance the 2 with cutting in summer.  I hope women realize how little they need to do to look great.  The media only talks about how hard it is for women to get or keep a great body.
> 
> Sorry for the rant.  I've been cutting for months and it is insanly hard!  This is after bulking forever!  See what I mean?


Ummm./..........nope - he's saying women have it easier than men which is bullshit!


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## Scott17 (Apr 24, 2006)

LOL It's ture. Us men got it alot easier than women.


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## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 24, 2006)

Spud said:
			
		

> I think all he was trying to say is that the average female looks better than the average male. Which is true, unless you're gay... or female.


THE AVERAGE FEMALE YOU'RE SPEAKING OF IS A SKINNY FAT WITH LITTLE TO NO MUSCLE.


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## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 24, 2006)

jwg said:
			
		

> No, I'm not kidding about the ones in my gym doing just that and looking good.
> 
> You'd think weights were kryptonite to most of them.
> 
> *I guess some people just have it easier than others.*


they don't have it easier dude....they look like shit (in my humble opinion at least). who the hell wants to sit on a treadmill or the gheigh eliptical machine for 2 hours a day eating away any muscle they 'could' potentially have. ARE YOU KIDDING????? not all of us wanna be those twig-like-stick-figures some men drool over on the cardio equipment. personally, it makes me ill. i don't train my ass off to look like a sickly runway model with no muscle whatsoever. BARF!


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## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 24, 2006)

Jodi said:
			
		

> This is all such CRAP!
> 
> Women got the short of end of the straw:
> 
> ...


fantastic post


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## fufu (Apr 24, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> are you kidding  women CAN'T get away with doing only that unless they wanna look like skinny fats.
> 
> women with REAL muscle that DON'T wanna look like a damn twig NEED to train just as hard as men do my friend. there are some of us that ACTUALLY train. *i swear cardio bunnies make all of us look bad. good grief*.


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## Bakerboy (Apr 24, 2006)

I think this thread is a good one...

In my opinion, both men and woman have it hard if you have unrealistic goals. 

It seems like the type of women that men on this site drool over are not what most of the woman on this forum desire to look like, or that as a man we see beauty in a variety of shapes and sizes... 

I think our society is obsessed with presenting women as week and skinny, instead as strong and confident... So many skinny fat chicks...(powerless)

We need more respect for each other, and to do that we need to not look at each other like objects...

Women, post a picture of a woman that you feel is close to your ideal, someone you think has a nice shape and size. 

I do agree that women bodybuilders in general face a few more obstacles (training wise) (see Jodi's list) when trying to achieve the same goals as men bodybuilders...


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## BillytK03 (Apr 24, 2006)

I read that in a poll everyone (women) want to look like Angelina Jolie... that aint bad!!!!

I think the bottom line of this thread of what was intended to imply is that Women have many different looks they can do to look good that men just cant do!

Women can look muscular,ripped and sexxy.
women can look lean, toned and sexxy.
women can look lean, skinny arms, flat stomach, sexxy.
women can look firm, average arms, big butt, sexxy.

see my point where I am going with this.......

Now guys on the other hand cant pull these looks off....
just look at my avatar, Im ripped, six pack, toned, vascular, but no size, too hard for me to gain weight and stay lean....... but a girl looks great like that.

women can attain a ripped stomach, thin arms through catabolism....  where as men look like crap that way...........

A women can go to the gym, do a few ab exercises then hit the treadmill for awhile and call it day....  then go home eat a lean protien source with some complex carbs every 3-4 hours, etc.... and attain that lean body if they have the discipline and look friggin' good.....  think a guy can do that.... LMAO

I do however understand the women's point of views on how hard it is for gaining lean muscle and looking good if thats whats intended, but getting ripped up and lean without having to worry about maintaining muscle is actually the easiest thing to do IMO and women can and do look good this way where as men dont if they have no size to go along with the ripped mid section...


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## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 24, 2006)

Bakerboy said:
			
		

> It seems like the type of women that men on this site drool over are not what most of the woman on this forum desire to look like


i agree.



> I think our society is obsessed with presenting women as week and skinny, instead as strong and confident... So many skinny fat chicks...(powerless)


i agree x2.



> Women, post a picture of a woman that you feel is close to your ideal, someone you think has a nice shape and size.


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## mrmark (Apr 24, 2006)

I would like to see our society adopt that described above but i can't imagine it, especially when you see fat/obese men/women on TV 24/7.


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## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 24, 2006)

BillytK03 said:
			
		

> I think the bottom line of this thread of what was intended to imply is that Women have many different looks they can do to look good that men just cant do!
> 
> Women can look muscular,ripped and sexxy.
> women can look lean, toned and sexxy.
> ...


have you read through any of this thread? the link Jodi posted? anything Trouble posted? sorry...it's no easier for a woman than it is for a man, you are misinformed.


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## BillytK03 (Apr 24, 2006)

now thats a sexxy pic of woman that The13ig13adWolf posted!!!!


Yes I read through the whole thread!!  did you read mine and actually understand what I was saying?

Women have it hard too! YES!!!   but...... they also have it easier in what looks they want to attain!!!

bottom line is women dont need muscle to look good......  it just adds more appeal!

guys dont look good without some sort of muscle def, it makes us look less appealing!!


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## mrmark (Apr 24, 2006)

BillytK03 said:
			
		

> Now guys on the other hand cant pull these looks off....
> just look at my avatar, Im ripped, six pack, toned, vascular, but no size, too hard for me to gain weight and stay lean.......



Read the stickies on diet and training if you want to gain weight


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## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 24, 2006)

BillytK03 said:
			
		

> Women have it hard too! YES!!!   but...... they also have it easier in what looks they want to attain!!!


i disagree.



> bottom line is women dont need muscle to look good......  it just adds more appeal!


IMO, women DO need muscle to look good. 



> guys dont look good without some sort of muscle def, it makes us look less appealing!!


this is just as subjective as what you posted above. a male Calvin Klein runway model would disagree with this. not ALL men think it is attractive for women OR men to have any kind of muscle definition. totally subjective.


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## Steele20 (Apr 24, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> are you serious? we store more fat dude. i guess it depends on what type of body a chick is looking to achieve but i work my ass off and am not even close to where i wanna be. stop with your pity party man...



you're missing his entire point...


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## dontsurfonmytur (Apr 24, 2006)

that pic that was posted she is hot but looks a little too hard


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## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 24, 2006)

Steele20 said:
			
		

> you're missing his entire point...


no i'm not


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## BillytK03 (Apr 24, 2006)

LMAO!!!  

YES U ARE!!!!


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## MyK (Apr 24, 2006)

Jodi said:
			
		

> This is all such CRAP!
> 
> Women got the short of end of the straw:
> 
> ...




I agree 100% its way better to be a man!


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## NeilPearson (Apr 24, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> THE AVERAGE FEMALE YOU'RE SPEAKING OF IS A SKINNY FAT WITH LITTLE TO NO MUSCLE.



So, they are still hot.  Even a fat moose chick can go out and hook up any night of the week - easily.

It's much, much harder for guys.  A skinny fat guy can easily strike out 90% of the time.  A really fat guy can strike out for years... yes years


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 24, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> are you kidding  women CAN'T get away with doing only that unless they wanna look like skinny fats.
> 
> women with REAL muscle that DON'T wanna look like a damn twig NEED to train just as hard as men do my friend. there are some of us that ACTUALLY train. i swear cardio bunnies make all of us look bad. good grief.



I think that is the point people are trying to make.  Girls don't have to have REAL muscle to look hot.  Those skinny fat girls can be just as hot as a girl that works her ass off.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 24, 2006)

dontsurfonmytur said:
			
		

> that pic that was posted she is hot but looks a little too hard



I agree... that's a little too much


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 24, 2006)

BillytK03 said:
			
		

> LMAO!!!
> 
> YES U ARE!!!!



I agree


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 24, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> I think that is the point people are trying to make.  Girls don't have to have REAL muscle to look hot.  Those skinny fat girls can be just as hot as a girl that works her ass off.


_MY_ point is that IMO, they can't because i don't find that look attractive in the least. this topic is highly subjective. some women like chunky hairy guys. who am i to criticize.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 24, 2006)

BillytK03 said:
			
		

>


yeah, this pretty much sums up my feelings as well...


----------



## jwg (Apr 24, 2006)

BillytK03 said:
			
		

> now thats a sexxy pic of woman that The13ig13adWolf posted!!!!
> 
> bottom line is women dont need muscle to look good......  it just adds more appeal!
> 
> guys dont look good without some sort of muscle def, it makes us look less appealing!!



This is true.

All a girl has to do is get a tan, and walk around in a pair of shorts and a small top on to get guys drooling.

Let a guy with no muscles walk around in a muscle shirt (or shirtless) and see the what happens. The reactions won't be the same. 

When it comes to looking good and attracting the opposite sex, women do have it easier (IMO, of course).

Some guys actually like a women with a little extra meat on her bones. 

How many women out there really like a guy with a little extra meat around the, say, waist? 

As far as building muscle goes...well...since I have no experience in being a woman, I'll just have to agree with the post made here about it being harder, I suppose. 

I still do think women have it easier when it comes to looking good enough to attract the opposite sex, though.


----------



## BillytK03 (Apr 24, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf for what it's worth "IMO"  You look hotter than the chic in the pic anyways!  So whatever ya doin' keep it up, cuz it's workin'!!!  Just my .02!!!!


----------



## SubliminalX (Apr 24, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> _MY_ point is that IMO, they can't because i don't find that look attractive in the least. this topic is highly subjective. some women like chunky hairy guys. who am i to criticize.



Of course, there's always going to be individuals who might not find the skinny/fat female look attractive, like the gal I posted above.  But I'd guess 90% of the population does.  That's one of the points that is being made in this thread.  Reaching the standard of "attractiveness" -- which is set by general consensus -- is comparatively easier for women than it is for men.   

You'll get no argument from me, or most people for that matter, that achieving a hardcore fitness/bodybuilder look is indeed easier for men.  There are two distinct issues being discussed here.


----------



## Brutus_G (Apr 24, 2006)

Man you looking good wolf. Pics speak it all both sexes look about equal. Well i can't really explain what i mean but you guys get it right? Also I'm assuming that girls will find that guy in the middle attractive.


----------



## Jodi (Apr 24, 2006)

Ewww no way.  Too skinny!

That girl in the blue shorts looks good but that pic of the 3 girls is   Scawny and not sexy at all.  Looks like little girl bodies


----------



## Brutus_G (Apr 24, 2006)

LOL i find them all good looking with the girl on my right the least but still good. I guess as a bodybuilder i like muscular toned girls best but i still like fat skinny to a certain extent.


----------



## GFR (Apr 24, 2006)

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=63939


----------



## GFR (Apr 24, 2006)

dontsurfonmytur said:
			
		

> that pic that was posted she is hot but looks a little too hard


If you like her you are gay


http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=63939


----------



## GFR (Apr 24, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> no i'm not


Yes you are, read this and you might get the point

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=63939


----------



## Mudge (Apr 24, 2006)

I always thought so. Trying to keep on 25-50+ pounds while staying lean at the same time?

Then again, I'm not a chick so who knows.


----------



## SubliminalX (Apr 25, 2006)

Jodi said:
			
		

> Ewww no way.  Too skinny!
> 
> That girl in the blue shorts looks good but that pic of the 3 girls is   Scawny and not sexy at all.  Looks like little girl bodies



I agree that the gal in blue trunks is smoking.  But to say the three gals on the right are disgusting reminds of guys who say that Frank Zane was "too scrawney" and looked like crap.  It's like, anything short of an "extreme" top 0.001% of the general population physique is considered ugly or something.  It's borderline mental illness if you ask me, like anorexia.     

BTW, and no offense intended here (heck you might even take this as a compliment), but I didn't realize you were a lady!  Now I know.


----------



## Spud (Apr 25, 2006)

Personally, I think the 3 girls are much much better looking than the one in blue shorts.

Funny how you all describe them as scrawny yet they obviously have more fat than the one in blue.


----------



## nsimmons (Apr 25, 2006)

Spud said:
			
		

> Personally, I think the 3 girls are much much better looking than the one in blue shorts.



 Those 3 are way hotter than the one in the blue shorts. A ripped chick doesnt do it for me at all.


----------



## pumpthatiron (Apr 25, 2006)

Jodi said:
			
		

> This is all such CRAP!
> 
> Women got the short of end of the straw:
> 
> ...



Maybe the women body isn't made to be muscular?  Maybe trying to make it muscular is pushing it to an abnormal state?  Just a food for thought...


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 25, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> _MY_ point is that IMO, they can't because i don't find that look attractive in the least. this topic is highly subjective. some women like chunky hairy guys. who am i to criticize.



Yeah but most girls would rather have 95% of the men out there find them hot than to have you find them hot


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 25, 2006)

Jodi said:
			
		

> Ewww no way.  Too skinny!
> 
> That girl in the blue shorts looks good but that *pic of the 3 girls is   Scawny and not sexy at all.  Looks like little girl bodies *



That is my whole point, most guys (including myself) find them sexy...  and they don't care what some body building chick thinks of them.

I find those girls much more sexy than a body builder girl while she is in high heels, flexing and an over-dark fake tan.  If girls are body building, I think they look a lot better relaxed than they do flexed and ready for competition... to me that is


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 25, 2006)

pumpthatiron said:
			
		

> Maybe the women body isn't made to be muscular?  Maybe trying to make it muscular is pushing it to an abnormal state?  Just a food for thought...



 

Maybe the girls that think they look better big do it because they like big guys.  Muscles turn them on so they assume that guys like girls to have muscles... which is may not be true (especially non-lifting guys)


----------



## tucker01 (Apr 25, 2006)

Maybe who cares.  What is your ideal is your own personal opinion, fine you like guys/chicks a certain way, that is your perogative.

Who has it easier or not.... who cares.  Worry about yourelf.  By the looks of society today,  we all have it pretty difficult.


----------



## devildog88 (Apr 25, 2006)

Man,
Did I come in on the tail end of this thread.  I think the women who train and have good muscle tone are the sexiest.  I agree with the wolf here, The treadmill anorexics do nothing for me.  I like a women that has some substance to her, something to hold and to love!  I am in awe of how hard they train to achieve their goals.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Apr 25, 2006)

It is easier for a woman to attain an ideal body based on the standards of a majority of society when compared to a man.  Now, walking around the Philly area, about 2% manage to do it.

Now, if we took a 30%bf man and a 30%bf woman and trained them, the man would look better far sooner than the woman and would reach his goal sooner as well.  Such is life.


----------



## BillytK03 (Apr 25, 2006)

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 25, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> That is my whole point, most guys (including myself) find them sexy...  and they don't care what some body building chick thinks of them.
> 
> I find those girls much more sexy than a body builder girl while she is in high heels, flexing and an over-dark fake tan.  If girls are body building, I think they look a lot better relaxed than they do flexed and ready for competition... to me that is


you can't say "most" guys without a test study and since you don't have one...that statement is irrelevant. 

in addition, you're comparing them to women who are dieted down and ProTanned for comp prep which is obviously not how they look year round.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 25, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Now, if we took a 30%bf man and a 30%bf woman and trained them, the man would look better far sooner than the woman and would reach his goal sooner as well.  Such is life.


exactly...


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 25, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> Yeah but most girls would rather have 95% of the men out there find them hot than to have you find them hot


how do you know?


----------



## sword- (Apr 25, 2006)

devildog88 said:
			
		

> Man,
> Did I come in on the tail end of this thread.  I think the women who train and have good muscle tone are the sexiest.  I agree with the wolf here, The treadmill anorexics do nothing for me.  I like a women that has some substance to her, something to hold and to love!  I am in awe of how hard they train to achieve their goals.



Yeah I'm on the tail end of it too and I'll co-sign what you just said. 

Girls that work out == sexy as f**k provided they dont look masculine 

I like the cardio bunnies too provided they aren't anorexic.


----------



## MyK (Apr 25, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> Yeah but most girls would rather have 95% of the men out there find them hot than to have you find them hot



I disagree 100%

most girls work hard to look good to compete with / get approval from other high status females!!


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 25, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> how do you know?



I guess I don't since I'm not a girl.  As a guy I know I would rather have girls think I look good than have guys think I look good... I guess I thought the reverse would be true.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Apr 25, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> I guess I thought the reverse would be true.




It is, save for a few special cases (lesbos).  The question isn't, "Who are you trying to impress?", it is "Who are you trying to impress most?", excluding yourself of course.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 25, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> you can't say "most" guys without a test study and since you don't have one...that statement is irrelevant.



I think I can... because I'm a guy and I know what turns my head as well what other guys I know look at.  There is a reason most of the top models and actresses have a similar body shape.... because that's what guys want to look at.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 25, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> It is, save for a few special cases (lesbos).  The question isn't, "Who are you trying to impress?", it is "Who are you trying to impress most?", excluding yourself of course.



I agree.  I'm not a girl but if a girl had to choose between her friend thinking she looks good and the hot guy across the bar thinking she looks good.... my money is on the guy


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 25, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> I think I can... because I'm a guy and I know what turns my head as well what other guys I know look at.  There is a reason most of the top models and actresses have a similar body shape.... because that's what guys want to look at.


right because you and your friends make up how much of the population??? have you SEEN what runway models look like up close and in person? and um...actresses are all shapes and sizes across the board. 

you're generalizing without stats.

in addition, the purpose of a runway show is not so dudes will look at the chicks. the target audience happens to be other women my friend. that's who's purchasing the clothes. which blows your hypothesis out of the water.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 25, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> right because you and your friends make up how much of the population??? have you SEEN what runway models look like up close and in person? and um...actresses are all shapes and sizes across the board.
> 
> you're generalizing without stats.
> 
> in addition, the purpose of a runway show is not so dudes will look at the chicks. the target audience happens to be other women my friend. that's who's purchasing the clothes. which blows your hypothesis out of the water.



You don't have stats either so don't use that arguement.  Show me stats that say guys find girls with muscles more attractive.  See we are both just going by our opinions and our views on society and what people like.

Sure runway models aren't for guys looking at them.  They are modeling clothes but they are still aiming for what is considered sexy... by both men and women.

It's still the whole idea of what a perfect figure is.

And yeah some actresses are all shapes and sizes but the majority of the actresses are trying for that 'perfect' body shape.  Actresses that are old or fat or ugly only fill roles that call specifically for that body shape.  If she is to be a romance interest or a cop or a school teacher or a bank robber or anything other than someones fat mother or ugly fat sister she is going to be a 'skinny fat' girl.... almost always

They don't put fat chicks in leading roles for a reason.  Guys don't want to go pay to see fat girls in movies.  They just don't.  They don't get muscle bound girls in these roles for the same reason.

It's the same thing is beauty pageants... Why don't you see fat girls or really built girls in these?  It's because they would never win because they just don't fit the standard role of what is attractive.

Here have a look at some actresses and see if you don't see a general trend.  This site even has a top 10 hottest.... so obviously someone else out there thinks the same way I do.

http://www.starpulse.com/Actresses/

I understand that you are proud of what you accomplished and I respect that.  Just don't think that men will find you sexier than these skinny fat girls just because you have more muscle mass.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 25, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> I understand that you are proud of what you accomplished and I respect that.  Just don't think that men will find you sexier than these skinny fat girls just because you have more muscle mass.


a. you're wasting your breath on me cuz i could give two shits what men think of my physique. i train to reach my own personal goals as to what _I_ find attractive

b. i asked for stats because YOU'RE the one making the claims. show me what the population finds attractive since YOU think what you and you're friends are into is the way of the world

c. they DO put heavier women in leading rolls. you are incorrect

d. ya gotta do better than a _Starpulse_ link to make me pay attention sparky


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 25, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> a. you're wasting your breath on me cuz i could give two shits
> 
> b. i asked for stats because YOU'RE the one making the claims. show me what the population finds attractive since YOU think what you and you're friends are into is the way of the world
> 
> ...



Name a movie with a heavier woman in a leading role... for every one, I'll list 10 that have a skinny fat (I would list 50-100 but that would take too much time browsing through movie titles)

The Starpulse link was just the first thing that came up to find lists of actresses to see what they look like.  I'm not sure why that isn't credible.  You want stats about what people find sexy?  Well that is one of them... because someone compiled a top 10 sexy list and it wasn't me or my friends.  Here are some more lists of top sexy models and actresses....  Notice the overwhelming 'skinny fats' in the lists?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FHM_100_Sexiest_Women
http://www.babelistings.com/
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/hot/office-attachments/girls05.html 
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/27/entertainment/main1441250.shtml
http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2005-03-23-fhm-sexiest-women_x.htm
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006160423,00.html
http://www.askmen.com/women/actress/index.html

Most of these I haven't looked at yet because I am at work so I'm not sure what is in them but I have a general idea.  If you want more just google sexiest women or hottest women (or actresses) and see who comes up.

Now show me a similiar list of hot or sexy girls that isn't mostly skinny fat girls...  oh and don't just pull it off a top female bodybuilding site (if it even exists there) since that reflects opinions of a specific small group of people and not the masses.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 25, 2006)

Renee Zellweger in Bridget Jone's Diary
Nia Vardalos in My Big Fat Greek Wedding
Queen Latifa in Beauty Shop/Last Holiday
America Ferrera in Real Women Have Curves

off the top of my head...

it doesn't matter if you can rattle of 30,000 with skinny fats at the leading ladies. you said "they don't put fat chicks in leading rolls" which implies NEVER which means you are incorrect.

good job googling . i said STATS...not websites. you do know what statistics are do you not? ie. studies, ie. numbers, ie. percentages supporting your argument. either way you're missing my original point. i'm glad you're a skinny fat supporter. more power to ya. HOWEVER, you make a ton of blanket statements that simply don't apply to everyone. call it what it is...you're opinion and move on.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 25, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> Renee Zellweger in Bridget Jone's Diary
> Nia Vardalos in My Big Fat Greek Wedding
> Queen Latifa in Beauty Shop/Last Holiday
> America Ferrera in Real Women Have Curves
> ...



Of course movies like "Real Women Have Curves" have fat girls... it is central to the story line... Same with Queen Latifa and movies like "phat chicks" or whatever it's called where they make fun of her eating habits.  I am talking about movies in general.  Of course you will find exceptions to every rule.  When I said, "they don't put fat chicks in leading rolls" - it is obviously a general statement,  of course there are exceptions to everything.  Of course blanket statements don't apply to everyone... that is why they are 'blanket statements'

I can say that men generally don't like to have sex with animals... but I am sure there are some out there that do.

Blanket statements aren't meant to cover every situation... they are meant to cover most situations, and I believe the blanket statements I made generally are true.  Of course there are exceptions though.

I don't need to find specific studies of what men like.  It is so completely obvious that nobody would both doing a study.  Just spend 5 minutes surfing the web or looking at MOST girls in movies, ads, porn flicks, etc and you will find the overwhelming majority of the girls that are considered sexy are skinny fat... and you can't possibly argue that.  Suggesting otherwise is ridiculous.

That's all I am saying and you come back with "well here is an exception" type of arguements.  Or "show me the stats" even though examples completely surround us.


----------



## BillytK03 (Apr 25, 2006)

I think all fitness girls are hot............ not the anorexic one's tho, they are nasty!!!!


PS- MYK,  why is your avatar my picture?   unless I have a long lost twin I dont know about!!!???


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 25, 2006)

whatever dude. you're making my head hurt.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 25, 2006)

BillytK03 said:
			
		

> PS- MYK,  why is your avatar my picture?   unless I have a long lost twin I dont know about!!!???


i think that means he likes you...


----------



## sword- (Apr 25, 2006)

Hah..this thread is getting preety heated for no reason really.

"in addition, the purpose of a runway show is not so dudes will look at the chicks. the target audience happens to be other women my friend. that's who's purchasing the clothes. which blows your hypothesis out of the water."

Aesthetics correlates w/ attractiveness aka sexiness. Fashion pushes an agenda as to what is sexy / attractive and what isn't but that's semi o/t.

And I am not really sure how many men would differentiate a girl who lifts and who doesn't in terms of attractiveness, but some women can't differentiate that either...anyways what is this argument about exactly?  Maybe I can comment better on it then.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 25, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> i'm glad you're a skinny fat supporter.



 

I wouldn't call myself a skinny fat supporter.  I'm not against muscular girls (as long as they don't ro roids).  I do think you look great too.  All I am saying is the general populations idea of a hot girl is the skinny fat look.

I know girls have a harder time getting a buff look than guys do (this is what the thread is about)

I was just agreeing with the others that said a skinny fat chick and a buff girl can both be really sexy but guys don't have that luxury.  Skinny fat guys just are considered hot like skinny fat girls are.  Guys need to be buff, big and skinny to be considered attractive... girls don't


----------



## sword- (Apr 25, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> I was just agreeing with the others that said a skinny fat chick and a buff girl can both be really sexy but guys don't have that luxury.  Skinny fat guys just are considered hot like skinny fat girls are.  Guys need to be buff, big and skinny to be considered attractive... girls don't




Some guys place more value on how a girl's face look rather than their body...so I think THAT does make it easier for some girls.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 25, 2006)

sword- said:
			
		

> Some guys place more value on how a girl's face look rather than their body...so I think THAT does make it easier for some girls.



I agree.  The girls that are considered the hottest movie stars all have pretty faces too.  Having a decent amount of muscle isn't a pre-requisite to being a super model or a top sexy movie actress.  Being pretty and thin is though.

Men on the other hand, for men to be considered sexy from a purely physical standpoint, they need to have a good level of muscle mass.

However, men's sexiness can be boosted up a few levels because of money, power, etc...  but the sexiest men have money, power, fame, a decent amount of muscle and 6 pack abs.


----------



## MyK (Apr 25, 2006)

this thread is gay!

lock it!


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 25, 2006)

MyK said:
			
		

> this thread is gay!
> 
> lock it!


----------



## MyK (Apr 25, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

>


----------



## BillytK03 (Apr 25, 2006)

MyK!!!!!!!   I want the picture of me back please!!!!!! LOL!!!   Are you my long lost twin??


----------



## Trouble (Apr 25, 2006)

Wolfie said "muscles do not 'tone', they grow and shrink."

Finally....truth.

And skinny fat is not healthy.


----------



## Bakerboy (Apr 25, 2006)




----------



## MyK (Apr 25, 2006)

BillytK03 said:
			
		

> I think all fitness girls are hot............ not the anorexic one's tho, they are nasty!!!!
> 
> 
> PS- MYK,  why is your avatar my picture?   unless I have a long lost twin I dont know about!!!???



WTF. why did you steal my avatar????????

  thats soo weird!


----------



## SubliminalX (Apr 25, 2006)

Haha, this thread went downhill fast.  It was a good topic.

--------------  



			
				Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> It is easier for a woman to attain an ideal body based on the standards of a majority of society when compared to a man.  Now, walking around the Philly area, about 2% manage to do it.
> 
> Now, if we took a 30%bf man and a 30%bf woman and trained them, the man would look better far sooner than the woman and would reach his goal sooner as well.  Such is life.



Here's a gal who is probably about 25% BF:






Here's a guy who is probably about 25% BF:







It's pretty clear that that the gal is already at a "hot" status according to general social perceptions.  The guy has a ways to go.  But I agree that the physical response to training and diet is better for men than women, all things being equal.  That's no secret, but that's a whole separate issue.  Seems like most everyone on this thread kept confusing "social standards" and "personal standards" for attractiveness and ended up arguing over different things.

Bottom line is, a woman needs to have maybe a top 30% body to be considered "hot."  Men need to be about top 5% or even top 1-2% to be considered "hot."


----------



## Brutus_G (Apr 25, 2006)

I do find very lean women unattractive and any girl that can kick my ass probably less so. I think some girls just go to much, i mean any girl with a big lat spread or chest as good or better than mine scares me.....


----------



## Spud (Apr 25, 2006)

SubliminalX said:
			
		

> Here's a gal who is probably about 25% BF:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree wholeheartedly!

(Any excuse to repost that image)

I do think that in North American and perhaps European (I wouldn't know)culture, a girl of that physique is more preferable than one that is muscular and lean. I know my friends think that. I know my friends' friends think that too. While this may not be the entire population or even representative of what females think, it defiinitely speaks true for the majority of males.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 26, 2006)

Spud said:
			
		

> I agree wholeheartedly!
> 
> (Any excuse to repost that image)
> 
> I do think that in North American and perhaps European (I wouldn't know)culture, a girl of that physique is more preferable than one that is muscular and lean. I know my friends think that. I know my friends' friends think that too. While this may not be the entire population or even representative of what females think, it defiinitely speaks true for the majority of males.





I guess it's just not me and my friends then


----------



## nsimmons (Apr 26, 2006)

count me in, and every man i know..


----------



## Burner02 (Apr 26, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> Men on the other hand, for men to be considered sexy from a purely physical standpoint, they need to have a good level of muscle mass.


not quite true-
Leonardo dicapprio(sp) - skinny
Harrison Ford - in his 50's - 60's...average size
George Clooney - average size
Sean Connery...- in his 80's..and considered world's sexiest man by tabloid mags.
and of course...
Brad Pitt. - ripped, but not big.

..and I think I may have dropped a few man points for knowing that much info...but maybe Wolfie will see this as my sensitive side and award my points back..


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 26, 2006)

Burner02 said:
			
		

> not quite true-
> Leonardo dicapprio(sp) - skinny
> Harrison Ford - in his 50's - 60's...average size
> George Clooney - average size
> ...



I knew I would get called on that... that's why I put in "purely from a physical standpoint"

All these men are okay looking.  They are all considered hot largely because of their fame, money, style...  Somehow, these things seem to make men a lot hotter in women's eyes than they really are.  Take that all away from them and they would all just be average Joe's


----------



## SubliminalX (Apr 26, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> I knew I would get called on that... that's why I put in "purely from a physical standpoint"
> 
> All these men are okay looking.  They are all considered hot largely because of their fame, money, style...  Somehow, these things seem to make men a lot hotter in women's eyes than they really are.  Take that all away from them and they would all just be average Joe's



+1 to that.  If you blurred out their faces and names, they would be considered in the average range according to general perceptions of male physical attractiveness.  In order for men to crack into the "stud" category, they need to get near at least the Chippendale's type physique -- bulked up AND cut.  

But, there is a point here.  It's easier for men to be conisdered "hot" due to factors extrinsic to physical looks.  So again, men have it easier in this regard.  But we're not talking about that in this thread.


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## MyK (Apr 26, 2006)




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