# Did the "1980 Mr. Olympia" kill Mike Mentzer?



## Curt James (Mar 12, 2010)

Shawn Ray, while interviewing Branch Warren, referenced Mike Mentzer and the 1980 Mr. Olympia competition.

Ray asked Branch about his drive to improve. Branch stated that a loss only spurs him, motivates him, drives him to come back even better.

Ray mentioned that the '80 O seemed to destroy Mentzer. It was just a brief comment, but I've often thought that Mentzer was demoralized by his being awarded fifth place rather than the ultimate prize in bodybuilding, especially against Arnold "Mr. Volume Training" Schwarzenegger.

If Mentzer had only viewed the loss as incentive to leave absolutely no doubts, wouldn't he have had a chance - a very good chance - at beating Franco at the 1981 Mr. Olympia?

Instead Mentzer's life apparently spun out of control and he failed to ever set foot on an Olympian stage again.

Dead too young, Mentzer had another five Olympias in him, imo. 

How do _you_ view defeat? What's your mental game like? Do you believe that something like a win or a loss can set the tone for the rest of your life? Or even shorten your life?

Mentzer's family had a history of health issues, so he may have died exactly as could be expected or predicted, however I'd like to believe that a positive attitude and uplifting determination can serve a healthful benefit to all people.

Any opinions? Any anecdotes?


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## Arnold (Mar 12, 2010)

no way, it had nothing to do with the 1980 Olympia IMO, I think he (and his brother) would have traveled the same path regardless.


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## ZECH (Mar 12, 2010)

Robert said:


> no way, it had nothing to do with the 1980 Olympia IMO, I think he (and his brother) would have traveled the same path regardless.



Care to expnad on that?
My initial thought was the same as yours, but I think there was some Phycological issues to it also.


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## Curt James (Mar 12, 2010)

Robert said:


> *no way*, it had nothing to do with the 1980 Olympia IMO, I think he (and his brother) *would have traveled the same path regardless.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I just have this idea that had Mentzer won that he would have been in a better place and perhaps not relied so heavily on amphetamines. He also would have been making more money via sponsorships, guest posings, seminars, etc. which may have led him to a healthier and more positive existence.


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## Perdido (Mar 13, 2010)

Robert said:


> no way, it had nothing to do with the 1980 Olympia IMO, I think he (and his brother) would have traveled the same path regardless.



So are you saying his breakdown after the loss had nothing to do with the Olympia?

The stories I've read suggested he wigged out to the point of having to be institutionalized. Then there was the drug abuse...

I know his brother died of another ailment (complications of Berger's disease) that had nothing to do with the Olympia at all.


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## Curt James (Mar 13, 2010)

Ray, 1979 AAU Mr. America, died two days after findng his older brother Mike dead in their apartment. Ray had been ill for some time and        was a kidney dialysis patient.

"Originally, Mike's body was sent to a funeral home in nearby        Torrance. However, given the suspicious circumstances of the deaths of two        brothers dying within two days of each other, the remains of both Mike and        Ray have been sent to the coroner's office in order to determine cause of        death. The initial reports of Ray's death circulating through the bodybuilding        community were that he had committed suicide," according to photographer Bill Dobbins. 

More @ *Mentzer Dead*

I suspect that much like married couples who die only days apart, Ray was so distressed by Mike's death that his body just gave up.


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## boobuddy12345 (Mar 18, 2010)

The 1980 Mr. Olympia finally proved to me the bias and politics in bodybuilding.

Arnold should have NEVER taken the prize. Mentzer sure was ticked about the whole thing, I do know that much. If I'm not mistaken the 1980 event was the last Mr. Olympia to be televised on a national station...I remember watching it on ABC's "Wide World of Sports"...the thrill of victory, and the agony of defeat!!!


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## Curt James (Mar 19, 2010)

boobuddy12345 said:


> The 1980 Mr. Olympia finally proved to me the bias and politics in bodybuilding.
> 
> *Arnold should have NEVER taken the prize.*



I go back and forth on that decision. Arnold was nowhere near his peak, but even a reduced Arnold was very impressive against the other competitors on that stage, imo.



boobuddy12345 said:


> Mentzer sure was ticked  about the whole thing, I do know that much. *If I'm not mistaken the  1980 event was the last Mr. Olympia to be televised on a national  station...*I remember watching it on ABC's "Wide World of  Sports"...the thrill of victory, and the agony of defeat!!!



I believe you're right. They were booing Arnold from what I've read. Incredible.

Really wish Mentzer had competed in '81. I wonder if they would have still awarded the title to Franco.


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## stepaukas (Mar 21, 2010)

any sport where there are judges, you're at their mercy.


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## chesty4 (Apr 16, 2010)

boobuddy12345 said:


> The 1980 Mr. Olympia finally proved to me the bias and politics in bodybuilding.



Since you're asking for opinions, I'm of the opinion that the powers that be in pro bb at that time felt that even though he wasn't at his best, that Arnold was the best ambassador for promoting and advancing the sport. I believe it had just as much to do about his charisma as his physique.


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## GFR (Apr 16, 2010)

Mike was a quitter, no matter what hapend in 1980 Mike would eventually found a reason to quit.


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## Curt James (Apr 16, 2010)

stepaukas said:


> any sport where there are judges, you're at their mercy.



True enough.



chesty4 said:


> Since you're asking for opinions, I'm of the opinion that the powers that be in pro bb at that time felt that even though he wasn't at his best, that Arnold was the best ambassador for promoting and advancing the sport. I believe it had *just as much to do about his charisma as his physique.*



His charisma certainly didn't hurt. 



GeorgeForemanRules said:


> Mike was a quitter, no matter what hapend in 1980 Mike would eventually found a reason to quit.



Perhaps, but I'd certainly love to read a "What if?" tale of Mentzer's 1980 Olympia win.


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## boobuddy12345 (Apr 17, 2010)

chesty4 said:


> Since you're asking for opinions, I'm of the opinion that the powers that be in pro bb at that time felt that even though he wasn't at his best, that Arnold was the best ambassador for promoting and advancing the sport. I believe it had just as much to do about his charisma as his physique.



...well, I'd hate to bust my balls in the gym for years, and do everything else necessary to win this title, to have someone with "charisma" win the title.
Arnold was a Weider ass-kisser...with placings based on physique and condition Arnold should not have even taken second place.
Arnold may get the award for the "world's most self-absorbed man". I cannot tolerate to even look at him.


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## Curt James (Apr 17, 2010)

Charisma counts, but even from the physique Arnold brought to the stage there may be merit to his winning the prize that year. Arnold at 75% was impressive if not better than the other competitors, imo. 

They're all shorter than Schwarzenegger and so lose a point there, imo. No, I'm no IFBB judge, but all things being otherwise equal I'm impressed by the taller competitor with the bigger guns. That's Arnold.

Frank Zane was one of the few to beat Arnold, but 1980 was not 1968.

I always thought Roger Walker (center, below) was the one who was robbed at that show.


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## chesty4 (Apr 22, 2010)

Also, remember seeing Arnold in _Pumping Iron_? He was/is a master at head games and intimidation in the gym and on the stage.


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## Captn'stabbin (Apr 23, 2010)

arnolds calves look like mine in that pic, small and high. haha


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## Curt James (Apr 23, 2010)

^heh 

I'll never criticize anyone's calves.


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## tominator44 (Apr 27, 2010)

I was very much into bodybuilding at the time everyone was shocked that Arnold won he was small and not nearly as hard as some of the other competitors, Menzter was amazing looking in the pics I saw and should have won easily this contest was definitely fixed to the hilt.


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## klo28 (Apr 28, 2010)

No way,thats bad news..


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## klo28 (Apr 28, 2010)

:-(


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## Curt James (May 4, 2010)

Arnold Schwarzenegger-The way to Mr.Olympia 1980-part 1 - YouTube

Arnold Schwarzenegger-The way to Mr.Olympia 1980-part 2 - YouTube


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## fredlabrute (May 5, 2010)

Curt James said:


> I just have this idea that had Mentzer won that he would have been in a better place and perhaps not relied so heavily on amphetamines. He also would have been making more money via sponsorships, guest posings, seminars, etc. which may have led him to a healthier and more positive existence.


 Yep, amphetamines did kill him! He still has the prettiest shape of all guys wearing a mustache!


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## dolcevita230 (May 10, 2010)

yes possibly


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## dolcevita230 (May 10, 2010)

why do they have a 20 post limit to send PM? thats so stupid.. just making more spam


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## WINSTON (Dec 29, 2012)

*mentzer . the dogmatic*



dolcevita230 said:


> why do they have a 20 post limit to send PM? thats so stupid.. just making more spam



 mike wanted to be a loose cannon . trying to follow arthur jones theories about high intesity traning. he wanted to let us know that  we sshould train scientifically . he was big booster of nautilus training too . he made arnold a bit mad telling everyone that his was the only way t train . . many people injured themselves trying heavy duty traing . not warming up . negative work has is places but . again . being careful is the way . mentzer was a bit of an original . in a way . arthur jones and ayn ryan . foolwer with a personal touch . that said arnold has his name and background to made him win in 1980 . his physique was not that great .


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## WINSTON (Dec 29, 2012)

not at his best but great calves chest and arms .


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## Curt James (Dec 29, 2012)

Prince said:


> no way, it had nothing to do with the 1980 Olympia IMO, I think he (and his brother) would have traveled the same path regardless.



Could easily be true. His mother wasn't 90 when she died.  My aunt was a nurse at the Ephrata Community Hospital where his mother was admitted and I believe died. 

Mike could have just as easily won the '80 O and then started his drug addiction related to fame and fortune rather than bitterness and disillusion. Still, I'd like to see that alternate universe where Mentzer won and Arnold took 5th.

Arnold would have bounced back from 5th. No doubt.



WINSTON said:


> (snip) *arnold has his name and background* to made him win in 1980 . his physique was not that great .



What I like to call _legend status._ Being 2nd to Arnold all those years definitely helped Franco win the '76 O. And having _that _Olympia title under his belt, that legend status, helped Franco win again in '81. No other way to explain Columbu topping Dickerson and Platz that year.


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## KILLEROFSAINTS (Dec 29, 2012)

Curt James said:


> Shawn Ray, while interviewing Branch Warren, referenced Mike Mentzer and the 1980 Mr. Olympia competition.
> 
> Ray asked Branch about his drive to improve. Branch stated that a loss only spurs him, motivates him, drives him to come back even better.
> 
> ...



his lifestyle def ruined his quality of life towards the end...amphetamines


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## hypo_glycemic (Dec 29, 2012)

I saw both brothers around Gold's Venice in the early 80's. thought wow, they live in their car? Those guys trained their BALLS OFF every rep! Truly unreal to watch as a teen


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## Curt James (Dec 29, 2012)

^^^^ Saw them when I was a teen as well. Ray appeared at the Ephrata Rec Center to sign autographs. He was a member of the 30-pin club while a wrestler for Ephrata H.S.

Saw Mike training at a place called the Lancaster Health Spa, great gym that had boxing, martial arts, free weights back when they had chalk buckets... Mike was doing triceps pushdowns in the corner, backed turned to me, and I thought it was just some really fat guy -- there was NO way that those arms were solid muscle. 

Then he turned around and I recognized him from the magazines. His arms were seriously ridiculous. The first Olympia-level guns I'd ever seen and my teenaged brain could barely rap reality around the sight. Absolutely absurd to see in person.

Didn't have the nerve to even say hello much less get an autograph.


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## hypo_glycemic (Dec 30, 2012)

^ the Lancaster Health Spa in Lancaster CA?? Those guys were on a lot of stems, but none-the-less, trained balls to the wall!! Freaking incredible intensity! You had to be there to grasp them doing that much volume on 2 hours of sleep. I admire the "heavy duty" philosophy of training.


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## WINSTON (Dec 31, 2012)

mike once said that the oak was a big prussian son of a . b... one of thfew to hate arnie at one time . most people agree that arnold schwarzenegger is bodybuilding. in fact too much . such a big personality in a small sport is what is the problem


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## WINSTON (Dec 31, 2012)

arnold once said i am bodybuilding and bodybuilding is me mdestry was not his thing he came in 1980 with 6 olympias behind him . a big palmares


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## strongrunbox (Dec 31, 2012)

WINSTON said:


> mike once said that the oak was a big prussian son of a . b... one of thfew to hate arnie at one time . most people agree that arnold schwarzenegger is bodybuilding. in fact too much . such a big personality in a small sport is what is the problem



Maybe he was right about something


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## MDR (Dec 31, 2012)

I think ultimately his death was due to suffering from substance abuse issues and mental illness.  I'm sure each made the other worse.  Very sad that he wasn't able to get help before it was too late.


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## Curt James (Jan 1, 2013)

WINSTON said:


> arnold once said "i am bodybuilding and bodybuilding is me." *modesty *was not his thing. He came in 1980 with 6 olympias behind him . a big *palmares*



A big *what?*


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## Curt James (Jan 1, 2013)

MDR said:


> I think ultimately his death was due to suffering from substance abuse issues and mental illness.  I'm sure each made the other worse.  Very sad that he wasn't able to get help before it was too late.



Agreed 100%.


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## Little Wing (Jan 1, 2013)

some of my favorite boxers seem to have had a very rough time deciding they were done boxing. that _last_ fight turns into several last fights chasing victory. i like the lower weight boxers because so often you see them display so much heart. they try and keep boxing when they are still 2/3s knocked out. heart is just something not every athlete has enough of... sometimes figuratively sometimes literally. Mike may have died from heart disease young even if he never got into bb. and maybe mike's "heart" was for his family not trophies and titles. he lost it when his dad died and i don't think his brother dying two days after he found Mike dead was purely coincidental. Both brothers had issues with blood clots but i wonder if Ray stopped dialysis altogether when Mike died. My mom chose to stop a few days before her death. 

On June 10,  2001, at approximately 9:00 AM, Mike Mentzer's heart stopped beating  while he was asleep. Earlier that year, a blood clot broke loose from  his leg and went to his lung. During this hospitalization, tests  revealed that Mike had suffered two silent heart attacks that he never  even knew he experienced. There was a history of heart disease in the Mentzer family.


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## Bowden (Jan 1, 2013)

WINSTON said:


> arnold once said i am bodybuilding and  bodybuilding is me mdestry was not his thing he came in 1980 with 6  olympias behind him . a big palmares





Curt James said:


> A big *what?*



Palmares = Record of achievement.


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## WINSTON (Jan 2, 2013)

palmares is all the big things that arnold achieved . curt. . arnold had a great  road sheet . before 1980. palmares is french. i would say


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## WINSTON (Feb 11, 2013)

mike developed arthur jones ideas and was ditched for this . was beaten by a top heavy skalak in 1977 and out of shape arnold inm 1980 . yates proved hit has some real truth .


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## WINSTON (Mar 30, 2013)

arnold said in interview . that his comeback in 1980 was not his wisest decision . untypical humility .


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## ak1951 (Apr 9, 2013)

I believe that Mike was a threat to the status-quo. One short work out a week and conventional diet was not a money maker for the industry. Over training is HUGE business. Just like Doc's and the AMA are not interested in curing any disease. Mike had a true personal interest in helping people. This does not fit into the money machine. An O win would have threatened the entire industry had Mike won. As in ALL things...it is about economics.


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## Curt James (Apr 29, 2013)

ak1951 said:


> I believe that Mike was a threat to the status-quo. One short work out a week and conventional diet was not a money maker for the industry. Over training is HUGE business. Just like Doc's and the AMA are not interested in curing any disease. Mike had a true personal interest in helping people. This does not fit into the money machine. An O win would have threatened the entire industry had Mike won. As in ALL things...it is about economics.



He was also a threat to Arnold's pride, I believe. High volume was what the Oak was preaching and to have some n00b show up and say that Arnold didn't have it right...


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## KILLEROFSAINTS (Apr 29, 2013)

how did mike develop jones ideas for him?


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## WINSTON (Nov 26, 2013)

well get back to what mike wrote himself . he advocated nautilus too . . and so on . but who train this way now among the pros . seems few .


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## l69lou (Nov 26, 2013)

I was around the situation in a very small way . Mike trained with Ray at my gym in MD before he went to Cali when he used to go to the U of MD . When he came back after the Olympia that Arnold won he was obsessed . He had put together a movement to boycott the next MR OLYMPIA due to it being fixed and corrupt in his eyes. He went about having meetings at auditoriums and I went to one of these to further this movement . He was very bitter . The failure of this boycott effort only intensified his bitterness. Also after this he came back from Cali another time after to visit the guys and he was found wondering about the gym's parking lot bouncing a rubber ball and mumbling incoherently . It was VERY sad for all of us to see . I idiolized Mike in my start in BBing . I went to his seminars as often as possible and I was broken hearted . Bitterness can eat you up like a cancer . It is such a sad story .


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## WINSTON (Nov 27, 2013)

problem is that some people injured themselves trying heavy duty . it was so new that it needed more explanations . is science could answer everything why not more  experts in physiology and strentgh coaches dont have mr olympia bodies . high intensity and jones ideas . were radically different . in those years when mike promoted it . he was kind of loose  cannon . .


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## WINSTON (Nov 28, 2013)

thanks curt and english is my second language . i met mike . and i knew . he wanted to add science to bodybuilding .


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## KILLEROFSAINTS (Nov 28, 2013)

if people get hurt doing heavy duty they arent doing it correctly


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## ak1951 (Dec 2, 2013)

boobuddy12345 said:


> ...well, I'd hate to bust my balls in the gym for years, and do everything else necessary to win this title, to have someone with "charisma" win the title.
> Arnold was a Weider ass-kisser...with placings based on physique and condition Arnold should not have even taken second place.
> Arnold may get the award for the "world's most self-absorbed man". I cannot tolerate to even look at him.



Man do we have a quorum of old guys here? Cool.

I was going to post this reply. I did love Ahhhnold though. But he was a horses ass no doubt. But his charisma was a Joe W. demand for his commercialization of BB. Mike rowed against the flow big time. He was not a JW game player and pushed his own agenda. Actually I follow his HIT program and it is brutal. I can't do it full time and most I know will not get involved with it. I am torn as to what truly is the secret after 40 years. I will leave the chemistry out of it...but I do remember one Arnold quote when asked about roids. "I wou't eat a cooowww pie if I tho't it wou't make me beegaaaa."

Mike was a mentor for me. Why he died is a puzzle still. I have to lean toward the suicide theory even though I don't want to. RIP Mike. You were an inspiration to many.


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## WINSTON (Dec 13, 2013)

. yes by the way the 1980 olympia killed mentzer a bit . telling people that his was the only way to go meaning everybody was just in the hit and miss . category was not to made friends . but its to strentgh coaches now to clear up . this thing . volume or intensity . and rest pause training . and eccentric and negative training too .


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## WINSTON (May 13, 2014)

arnold in his memoirs admit that mr o 1980 was controversial . he says this thing made some harm to bodybuilding . he had chest arms and calves in 190 bad timing for him and bad grooming too . look his hair in this contest compare to others


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## WINSTON (May 30, 2014)

yes 1980 in a way did kill mentzer . . whats next today with heavy duty


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