# 1st cycle Sustanon 250.... & should I stack with HGH?



## Kimusabi (Sep 27, 2012)

I'm trying to get some feedback, I'll try to make this as complete as possible.

Stats:
Height 6'
Weight 180  (173/174 when I eat right for competition)
Age 30

Exercise:
I've trained Martial Arts from a young age but now mostly Jiu Jitsu & Muay Thai
Train 3 to 7 days a week doing that, I can make 7 if I don't push too hard in each class but the recovery is holding me back
Also hit the gym mornings 3 days a week to do cardio, circuit training and lift

Proposed Cycle:
Sustanon 500mg/wk  (250mg every 3.5 days) - 12 weeks
HGH 2iu ed for 6 months
-AI, HCG on hand <----Need more research
-PCT with Clomid and Nolvadex

I'm looking to improve performance, train longer/harder, recover faster. Also gain some size but would like to still look lean/ripped. I also want to hold onto any lean muscle gains and strength gains as much as possible.

My question is; Do I need the gH? Is it really beneficial or am I wasting money?
gH is expensive but I have read many good things about the synergy with test so I am on the fence as to spend the money. 
Let me know.. Thanks


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## ctr10 (Sep 27, 2012)

That's it shoot for the starz


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## ashoprep1 (Sep 27, 2012)

it is very beneficial


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## jay_steel (Sep 27, 2012)

I would increase the IU's over the length of the time. Start out with 2iu but after a month jump to 3ius and at your 4 month jump to 4 ius


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## overburdened (Sep 27, 2012)

For what your goals are hgh is something that would greatly help you!  It will greatly enhance recovery, as well as help you stay lean/lean out(but your diet has to be right too... you can't just expect the hgh to do it).....The sustanon will help you too, I think you have a pretty good, nice and simple stack laid out for yourself, and the pct shouldn't be too bad....  As far as an ai the entire time you are running the sust, I don't think you will need to take one but maybe once every 10 days or so, just to keep estro levels from climbing much at all, but I would run nolva through the entire cycle, this will prevent any estro sides, and will also help keep water retention to a minimum.  I would recommend aromasin for an ai(it has the least negative sides of any ai, and you will not get any rebound estrogen when you cease taking it....  )  you could get away with 12.5 mg every 4th  or 5th day, and that should be plenty(if you want to be POSITIVE  your estrogen isn't too high, get blood work 3-4 weeks into the cycle...  ).  Bloodwork is always good to keep up on anyway!

As far as pct, you wouldn't need any MAJORLY elaborate plan... a simple clomid/nova/aromasin pct should be fine(especially if you ran nolva through the cycle, this will help keep natural test suppression down to some degree)..  This is how I would lay out the pct:

starting 10 days after you last sust injection(some will say you should wait longer, but you aren't taking much, and a little test in your system will not make the pct not work, estrogen in your system WILL make the pct NOT work!....  so, following the last shot of sust, I would keep taking the nolva(so take nolva from day 1 of the cycle till last day of pct, No need to stop taking it anywhere in between!... also, you could start taking aromasin eod following the last sust inj, just to completely knock out estrogen(at least knock it out enough to help eliminate suppression.. you shouldn't have too many LOW e2 sides off that dose, but it will help pct work more quickly and efficiently... then also carry it into the pct as lined out)  So:

nolva (start to finish(pct included... no stopping taking it til pct is complete)
aromasin (start taking 12.5mg following last sust inj til pct... I'll lay out protocol in pct)

PCT:
week 1(which starts 10 days following last sust injection)
*nolva 20mg ed
*clomid 150mg ed
*aromasin 12.5mg ed

week 2
*nolva 20mg ed
*clomid 100mg ed
*aromasin 12.5mg ed

week 3
*nolva 20mg ed
*clomid 100mg ed
*aromasin 12.5mg ed

week 4
*nolva 20mg ed
*clomid 50mg ed
*aromasin 12.5mg ed

week 5(you can choose to do this or not do it, it won't hurt, may help)
nolva 10mg ed

This should be more than sufficient as far as pct, with what you have planned out(run the hgh through pct too... if you are going to take it, take it the entire time, and run it min 4 mo, and if you can run it 6-8mo or even a year, you will be doing even better!)

a few weeks following pct, you should get bloodwork done again, and make sure the pct was sufficient, and that you are producing 'normal' levels of test, that your estro isn't too high, and that lh and fsh are within normal ranges....  If not, you should do another pct(and get the products from a different place, that pct should be PLENTY to kick you back in after a 500mg/wk test run!)

As far as diet...  If you haven't found what works best for you... here's a few pointers(Just so you kind of know what direction to be going in, macronutrient-wise, to help with recovery, as well as stay lean, gain some muscle)...   Calculate your lean body mass, and take that number and multiply it by 1.25(this is the number, in grams, of protein you should be taking in.... You don't want to go super high(it can harm your kidneys after a prolonged period), but you need it high enough to give the hgh and the sust a chance to do the most they are capable of...(if you find that that amt isn't sufficient for quick recovery, bump it up to 1.5X lbm... but I wouln't go higher than that for 'bulking')

Carbs(you will need lots of these to sustain a decent energy level with all the training you are doing... you should, however, choose good, whole food sources of carbs...)  You should probably start at about double your protein intake(twice as many grams of carbs as you are taking in, in protein).... and play around with it from there, till you find the optimal number that is right for you.

Fats(I can't stress enough, the importance of fat in a diet... if you've read many of my posts, you will see this ALL OVER THE PLACE!!!)  Your body needs fats to function properly, don't go cutting them down to a small amt(you can actually lean out very well, and maintain energy levels, if taking in the right kinds, and enough, fats)..  I'll name off a few that should be part of your EVERY DAY macronutrient consumption:  olive oil, coconut oil, canola oil(this or safflower is what I cook with... they are both excellent oils, grape seed oil is great to cook with too!), flax oil(you can take in 30-45g of flax oil EVERY day, and it will help your body recover tremendously quick, as well as take care of most of your efa needs(there are just a couple I would add to the flax to make sure you don't have a 'bottleneck' on EFA's).. The other two types I would get(and you can get these in capsule form... I would get the flax in a bottle, and store in fridge once opened..... you will go through flax capsules WAY too quickly if you are using them), these are Fish oil, and Borage oil(with the addition of these two, you have all your bases well covered as far as EFA's...  On the fish oil, I would take 2000-3000mg 3X daily, on the Borage oil, I would take 500mg 3X daily....)  You can also eat LOTS of peanut butter during the day, add it to your protein shakes(if you choose to use protein supplementation), eat it on celery stick, whatever.. you can eat tons of it, and not get fat...  I use it (and A LOT of it) for dieting down for bbing comps...

Hope this helps bro...  You did some pretty decent planning on this, and it's always fun to see someone be able to take their own work, and a little advice, and achieve great things...  If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me, and I'll answer them to the best of my abilities. 

Good luck!


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## 1superman (Sep 27, 2012)

Kimusabi said:


> *I'm looking to improve performance, train longer/harder, recover faster. Also gain some size but would like to still look lean/ripped. I also want to hold onto any lean muscle gains and strength gains as much as possible.
> *
> My question is; Do I need the gH? Is it really beneficial or am I wasting money?
> gH is expensive but I have read many good things about the synergy with test so I am on the fence as to spend the money.
> Let me know.. Thanks



With diet in check ... This would be the results you could expect from adding a long run of EQ in with the Sustanon from my experiance. I think jay_steel would agree.

Imo hgh would help with burning fat, and some types of injury.


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## Kimusabi (Sep 27, 2012)

Thank you for the info! I will def incorporate what you mentioned into the cycle. Diet is a must, I don't plan on doing things half assed... and waste my time & $. 
I have some more planning but I will try to keep a log to keep the info flowing for others who might be interested in the same
Thanks


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## MinMaxMuscle (Sep 27, 2012)

You better be on alot more gears than just sustanon while on gh. GH by itself without any gears? GH is highly synergistic with test/eq.


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## heckler7 (Sep 27, 2012)

MinMaxMuscle said:


> You better be on alot more gears than just sustanon while on gh. GH by itself without any gears? GH is highly synergistic with test/eq.


I agree with this, but if your goal isnt body boulding, just performance BCAA and B-12 shots will help you recover, HGH is alot of money


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## overburdened (Sep 27, 2012)

I think he is looking at the hgh as more of a benefit, as far as recovery, and in his martial arts... if he takes boatloads of juice, he will become winded VERY easily when doing martial arts training....    The testosterone is enough, but like someone else said, EQ would be a great addition!!!  EQ isn't one that will make you winded easily, it promotes MUCH quicker recovery, and increases healing, etc...(most of these effects come from the dramatic increase in RBC and hematocrit/hemoglobin...  so you will need to keep an eye on doing labs, and make sure you don't get those number too high, to the point of polycythemia)  You can get the RBC up to the high end of normal, and utilize the extra recovery that that will induce... but for sure don't overdo it!  If you end up with your RBC and hematocrit into the polycythemia range, you risk many things, one of which being a stroke....  your blood gets VERY thick, and can clot too easily!... something to watch for on any aas, but especially ones known for greatly increasing RBC count.....

The hgh will help as far as recovery and making it possible to do all those things you have laid out in your original post, without any major issue of overtraining...  without either EQ or hgh, I would say you could possibly overtrain, based on your original post....

things to think about...I think the EQ is a great idea! props to the guy that suggested it!  in fact, you may just try frontloading that, and using sust... see where you get with that(it may eliminate the need for the hgh, and save you a ton of money!!!)  also, gh releasing peps are GREAT!!  for the price, you just can't beat them.. I feel WAY better when I am taking them(I think in some ways they are even better than hgh... but hgh does have some advantages over peps too...)  I'll tell you, the peps are definitely going to have a higher chance of being legit(most hgh isn't real... that is sold on the black market... there are only a couple places to get REAL hgh CONSISTENTLY!)... and they will save you a ton of money... they are at least worth giving them a chance...


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