# Potential first cycle



## Bonesaw (Dec 2, 2011)

In all of my research of figuring how some of this shit works and if I ever want to take any of it I keep ending back at Testosterone Enanthate.  I think I would like to do a cycle of test e at some point.  Been reading this Using Testosterone for Muscle Gains and similar articles. This guys seems like hes got most of the bases covered but I would like to get current information from real people who have use this shit.  The basic layout is:

Weeks 1-10:
*500mg testosterone per week
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*1 tablet of clomid every other day (50mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day

Week 11:
*300mg testosterone per week
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*1 tablet of clomid every other day (50mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day

Week 12:
*200mg testosterone per week
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*1 tablet of clomid every day (50mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day

Week 13:
*1.25mg of finasteride per day
*.25mg of Arimidex every other day
*100mg of clomid every day

Week 14:
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every 3rd day (0.25mg)
*50mg of clomid every day

I started working out at 145 pounds about year ago.  Now I'm ~175.  I'm 26 years old and 6'2.  Finish line goal is 210-220 pound range @ 10% body fat.  If I ever take this or something similar I wanted to do it before I get to old.  I would like to use something like this once and access the results and see where to go from there.  So I want something that has lasting gains from a one time use.  How does this sound?  Can anyone share some insight and point me in the right direction for more research.


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## Digitalash (Dec 2, 2011)

Couple issues there, why are you taking finasteride? Do you already have hairloss issues? If not I would most definitely get rid of that, the side effects are not worth the incredibly small chance that just testosterone at that dosage is going to be a problem for your hairline. Also it seems like you're going on some kind of "taper" protocol which is as far as I know a very outdated way of doing things. There's also no need to be running clomid DURING your cycle, you're going to be supressed while on and clomid isn't going to change that. Run the test @ 500mg per week, divided into two injections of 250mg. .25mg A-dex either every day or every other day, depending on your particular sensitivity/proclivity to estrogenic side effects. I need .25mg ED pretty much but I would start on the low end and see how you react. Run the test like this for 10 weeks, allow two weeks after your last injection for the esters to clear and then run clomid for four weeks. So like this


Wks 1-10
Test E 500mg per week, 250mg roughly every 3.5 days
Arimidex .25mg every day or every other day
(optional) hcg 500iu 2x weekly

wks 10-12
continue with arimidex protocol, or preferably switch to aromasin

wk.12
100mg clomid every day

wks. 13-16 
clomid 50mg every day
IF and only IF you have switched to aromasin run that during pct @25mg per day the first two weeks and 12.5mg per day the final two weeks of pct. If you are only using arimidex it would be best to drop that at around week 12, as it can cause estrogen rebound issues and you will want to stop it while you're using a serm to prevent gynecomastia etc.


As long as you keep up with diet and training you should be able to maintain a good portion of your gains indefinitely.


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## SUPERFLY1234 (Dec 2, 2011)

i agree with digitalash, keeping it simple for a first cycle. if you are worried about hair loss better not run any gear. many older men i train take finasteride to prevent their prostate from enlarging while running a cycle.


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## Bonesaw (Dec 2, 2011)

well about the hair, I have long hair, like metallica 1986 long. lol. 
So tapering out week 11 and 12 doesn't do anything? I'm kinda iffy on injecting in the first place so would I take the hcg same day like mon fri?  
Is that post cycle good should anything else be taken? 
And what are some other supplies that are good to have on hand for a cycle like this?
Anything to do as a pre cycle?


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## Digitalash (Dec 2, 2011)

Pre cycle I would just work on getting your bodyfat fairly low, below 15% at the least

Tapering was used back when they didn't really have all the good pct chems we have now, there's really not much point these days with all the things available. Pinning is a piece of fucking cake though, everyone here will agree it doesn't hurt at all. It's 99% mental, once you get over that fear and realize that you literally can't even feel the muscle it's a walk in the park. It's like .0001 second of a mild stinging as it goes through the skin and then it's over. 

Stick with clomid (and aromasin if you don't mind spending a little money, it can be found cheap though and is worth it IMO). 100mg clomid the first week, 50mg the next three. Start pct two weeks after your last injection. 

Test really isn't much of an issue when it comes to hairloss though, unless you're using some pretty large dosages for a lonngg time I wouldn't even let it cross your mind. Your hair will be just fine and you don't really want to subject yourself to any more side effects with the finasteride. 

As for hcg, if you can get it then go ahead and use it. It'll help your recovery and keep your nuts the same size throughout the cycle. You can pin it the same day as your test if you like, or just use an insulin pin which is like a metal hair.. you won't even notice it. HCG needs to be refrigerated though so plan for that.


edit: as for other things to have on hand, nolva is great for peace of mind. It can be difficult getting you AI dosage just right especially without bloodwork, so it's nice to know if you start gettig gyno symptoms you can stop it cold with some nolva. Look for reputable research chem companies and you can get clomid/nolva/a-dex/aromasin etc. very cheap (for research purposes only of course)


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## Bonesaw (Dec 2, 2011)

what should the total price be for this cycle?

Where did you guys all get your info on the subject?  This all seems simple enough, any ebooks or torrents worth reading?


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## Disperse (Dec 2, 2011)

It's all about genetics. Some people are Ok and most will lose it.  Stick with the finesteride or proscar. Your scalp will get dry and thin.  At the very least it will prevent hair lose and in my case regrow.  Also you can use Nizoral shampoo 2%.  Very effective for me.  No tapering as others have said.  Test E is self tapering.  500mg a week has become bro science for a first cycle.  You will grow plenty from 300-400mg for a first cycle.  See how you react to the compound and adjust on your next.  Nobody does just one cycle.  I start with 400mgs for 12 weeks and cut it short because my progress stopped at 9.  Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.-Dennis Miller


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## Vibrant (Dec 2, 2011)

Bonesaw said:


> what should the total price be for this cycle?
> 
> Where did you guys all get your info on the subject?  This all seems simple enough, any ebooks or torrents worth reading?



read the stickies bro, a lot of info is in there.


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## Bonesaw (Dec 3, 2011)

Here is where I stand today


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## GreatWhiteTruth (Dec 3, 2011)

Bonesaw said:


> ...
> 
> I started working out at 145 pounds about year ago.  Now I'm ~175.  I'm 26 years old and 6'2.  Finish line goal is 210-220 pound range @ 10% body fat.  If I ever take this or something similar I wanted to do it before I get to old.  I would like to use something like this once and access the results and see where to go from there.  So I want something that has lasting gains from a one time use.  How does this sound?  Can anyone share some insight and point me in the right direction for more research.



Kudos for having the balls to post pics. Well you've been training for a year, but in my opinion a year isn't long enough. Your age is fine and you've made progress, but I would suggest waiting until you've _maxed_ your natural potential. I sat on the fence and researched for almost 2 years before I ran my first cycle.

Especially with being younger, you don't have to worry about hairloss as much unless you are running a DHT like winny, though it's still a possibility. 

Let me tell you from personal experience that tall guys like us have it harder. You still won't be big at 210-220lbs IF getting big and cut is your goal that is... You will need to be at least 235 _lean_ to be even close.


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## Bonesaw (Dec 4, 2011)

I wouldn't be taking this anytime soon, I just wanted to get the wheels in motion.  Can't tell how much this is gonna cost and where I'm gonna get it.  It would most likely take months to get all the supplies needed.  

Anyone want to take a guesstimate on my body fat?  I was thinking like 10% but the one time I took all the measurements for some online test it said I was around 17%.  Visible abs and obliques without doing any direct ab work and 17% body fat?


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## fredlabrute (Dec 4, 2011)

Personnally i would make HCG a staples of any cycles,makes PCT so much easier!!!250 iu e3d!!!With that recovery is a walk in the park!


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## fredlabrute (Dec 4, 2011)

Tapering down on compounds is a great idea when your going high dose on these, i don't think tapering down at 500mg is absolutely needed,but just decreasing dose at 375mg on week 11 and 250mg on week 12 won't hurt for sure,not needed,but safer!!!


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## sofargone561 (Dec 4, 2011)

no clomid during cycle. i would rahter have hcg in pct then on cycle. Also dont taper down. thats for pussy's listen to the guys on here ull be gtg. 500mg every week split into 2 injects.


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## bigbenj (Dec 4, 2011)

Bonesaw said:


> I wouldn't be taking this anytime soon, I just wanted to get the wheels in motion.  Can't tell how much this is gonna cost and where I'm gonna get it.  It would most likely take months to get all the supplies needed.
> 
> Anyone want to take a guesstimate on my body fat?  I was thinking like 10% but the one time I took all the measurements for some online test it said I was around 17%.  Visible abs and obliques without doing any direct ab work and 17% body fat?




You'd be surprised at what your bf% actually is and how much most people grossly under estimate. I think 17% is pretty close. Not that you're fat, it's just that true bf% is never what you think it is.


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## sofargone561 (Dec 4, 2011)

bigbenj said:


> You'd be surprised at what your bf% actually is and how much most people grossly under estimate. I think 17% is pretty close. Not that you're fat, it's just that true bf% is never what you think it is.


 agreed! i underestiamte to push myself harder. but i say i started at maybe 20% right now im probably at 12 maybe 14? idk fuck it. idc im getting big and shredding fat. pin bro i swear fo god u gon love it ya heard meh? sorry i was hanging with colored ppl lastnight


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## Bonesaw (Dec 4, 2011)

dam, should I add in some cardio?  I get excited about every pound I gain.  Like I said above I've gained 25+ pounds this year and my figure is the exact same.  My arms and thighs are bigger but everything else is the same as it was at 150 pounds.


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## sofargone561 (Dec 4, 2011)

yes add cardio. i started adding cardio everyday and i love it now. i hated it at first but it hate.


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## Vibrant (Dec 4, 2011)

post up your diet and training routine, we may be able to give you some pointers there that will help you gain without using aas yet.


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## Bonesaw (Dec 4, 2011)

chest/tri
Decline Bench-----160x9 165x7 170x5

Rope Pushdown ---130x9 135x7 140x6

Incline Bench -----130x9 135x8 140x6

Arnold Press ------30x9 35x8 40x6

Flat DB Flyes -----25x10 30x8 35x6

DB Skull Crusher --17.5x9 20x7 22.5x6

Biceps/Back/Shoulders
Wide Grip Lat Pulldown -----320x9 320x8 320x8

BB Curl --------------------70x9 75x7 80x5

DB Lateral Raises ----------22.5x9 25x7 30x5

Bent Over BB Row----------140x9 145x7 150x5

Shoulder Shrug-------------255x10 265x8 275x8

Rear Delt Flyes-------------22.5x10 25x8 30x6

Concentration Curl----------22.5x9 25x7 30x5

Reverse BB Curl-------------50x9 55x7 60x5

Legs
Squats------------210x10 215x8 220x6

SLDL--------------235x9 240x7 245x6

DB Lunges---------50x9 5x7 52x5

Lying Leg Curls-----85x9 90x7 95x5

BB Calf Raise ------225x9 230x7 235x6

here are some numbers I did about a month ago, just about everything is up by 5-10 pounds.

Typical daily diet for me
meal1 cheerios/whole grain cereal 2% milk or 4-5 eggs with some whole grain toast
meal2 greek yogurt banana protein bar
meal3 subway sandwich if at work at home pb&j
meal4 protein shake, homemade gainer
meal 5 pasta or chicken of some kind with some veggies and what-not
bed time meal if I didn't already eat a pb&j then I would eat it now or casein shake.


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## Tuco (Dec 4, 2011)

Maybe trying substituting a few of your meals with 6 oz chicken breast and 1-2 cups of brown rice. You can't beat simple old fashioned chicken breast and rice. I cook all my meals the night before, carry them in a cooler in my truck, and then just eat every few hours in my truck. 

Invest in a food scale, rice cooker, and foreman grill.


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## Bonesaw (Dec 4, 2011)

im about to move out so when i go shopping the first time im gonna get a 20 pound bag of rice and as many chicken breast as possible.  I shop at a restaurant depot


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## sofargone561 (Dec 5, 2011)

PITBULL915 said:


> Maybe trying substituting a few of your meals with 6 oz chicken breast and 1-2 cups of brown rice. You can't beat simple old fashioned chicken breast and rice. I cook all my meals the night before, carry them in a cooler in my truck, and then just eat every few hours in my truck.
> 
> *Invest in a food scale, rice cooker, and foreman grill*.


 rice cooker saved my life bro! luckily for me i live at home with my old mom and hes the grill master. i give him everything i want grilled and he grills it up


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## squigader (Dec 5, 2011)

Drop the clomid and finasteride. Use clomid post cycle, not during.
No need to taper down at the end. Run it for 10 weeks instead.
I would train for another year natty AT LEAST before touching the stuff.


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## Vibrant (Dec 5, 2011)

That's your problem right there bro. DIET!!! You have to understand that if you don't improve your diet, even aas is not gonna pack a ton of weight on.

Where's the chicken breast, beef, tuna fish, tilapia fish in your diet? Those foods are pretty much a daily part of every bb. Let me say this again, YOU ARE NOT EATING ENOUGH!!! How do you expect to gain muscle without getting enough protein?


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## sofargone561 (Dec 5, 2011)

Vibrant said:


> That's your problem right there bro. DIET!!! You have to understand that if you don't improve your diet, even aas is not gonna pack a ton of weight on.
> 
> Where's the chicken breast, beef, tuna fish, tilapia fish in your diet? Those foods are pretty much a daily part of every bb. Let me say this again, YOU ARE NOT EATING ENOUGH!!! How do you expect to gain muscle without getting enough protein?


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## Vibrant (Dec 5, 2011)

sofargone561 said:


>



Thanks I guess?


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## sofargone561 (Dec 5, 2011)

Vibrant said:


> Thanks I guess?


 first one was for you second one for OP. im tired sorry bro dont feel like typing much today


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## Bonesaw (Dec 5, 2011)

ok, ok I'll up the chicken to a daily meal I do eat fish fairly frequently , it looks like im getting more carbs then I need.


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## Vibrant (Dec 5, 2011)

Bonesaw said:


> ok, ok I'll up the chicken to a daily meal I do eat fish fairly frequently , it looks like im getting more carbs then I need.



unless you will eat chicken 3-4 times a day, you'll need more protein sources. For breakfast you you should also be eating eggs. At your current weight you need somewhere around 300- 350 grams of protein daily to gain muscle successfully. You're getting nowhere close to that.


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## Bonesaw (Dec 5, 2011)

I eat eggs for breakfast 75% percent of the time, Its the other meals and snacks where i think i fall off on.  I get the point my diet need some major help.


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## Vibrant (Dec 5, 2011)

I guarantee you that if you get your diet in check, you will at least add 10-15lbs to your frame.

I eat eggs for breakfast everyday, its the other things I add to my breakfast that I vary up.


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## Bonesaw (Dec 5, 2011)

I added 25lb to my frame over the last 10 months how much do you think is left to gain?


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## sofargone561 (Dec 6, 2011)

Bonesaw said:


> I added 25lb to my frame over the last 10 months how much do you think is left to gain?


 a lot . eat eat eat. when you think you can eat again. if u eat 2 burgers at mcdonalds get 3 and fries when ur home EAT bro eat everything you can and lift everything you can! dirty bilk like A MOTHER fucker if you have to! i think you have plenty of natty room left to grow =)


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## Tuco (Dec 6, 2011)

sofargone561 said:


> a lot . eat eat eat. when you think you can eat again. if u eat 2 burgers at mcdonalds get 3 and fries when ur home EAT bro eat everything you can and lift everything you can! dirty bilk like A MOTHER fucker if you have to! i think you have plenty of natty room left to grow =)



Yup! I remember when I was 170 lbs and then I grew to 195. I thought I maxed out natty but then I doubled my carbs and added a few more ounces of chicken breast each meal and then grew to 215.


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## bigbenj (Dec 6, 2011)

Don't overdo it. Definitely eat more, but don't become a pillsbury doughboy lookin mofo!


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## sofargone561 (Dec 6, 2011)

bigbenj said:


> Don't overdo it. Definitely eat more, but don't become a pillsbury doughboy lookin mofo!


 hahah hopefully he know what i ment. if he works out the right way anf eats mostly clean he will get big. this cycle has been a pretty dirty bulk and i have littery ate as much as i could and everything i could but im very pleased so far. only where to go from here is up.  its ok if u get a little fat once u borderling chubby is when you doing somthing rong.


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## Bonesaw (Dec 6, 2011)

I'll work on my diet and continue to lurk around.  Thanks for all the input, I dont have many sources for good advice like here.   I'll keep playing around with OTC stuff like testosterone boosters because thats all the fun I can have now.  Once I get everything sorted out with the moving im about to do soon.  I'll make chicken breast/rice an everyday meal.  About to eat some chicken rice broccoli cheese my favorite.


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## Chrisotpherm (Dec 6, 2011)

Bro follow Digits advice here and you will ne on your way. 

So Mote it Be
Chris


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