# TCD Diet and Carb Ups?



## ddawg (Apr 27, 2006)

I've decided to start a TCD diet in order to try and get rid of my skinny fat look. I'm 20 yrs. old, 6', 177 lbs, and about 16-17% bf, and I want to lose some fat. Since this is my first try at a TCD, I just wanted to post my eating plan and see if I did it right or if I can adjust some stuff. I plan on working out 4 days a week, with 2 days of cardio and 1 off day.  I also wanted to know if I've got enough or too many carbs in my carb up day.  On my carb up day though, I plan on eating healthy carbs like oatmeal, apples, berries, etc. Here is my plan.....suggestions and advice appreciated....thanks

Monday: Workout
2584 calories, 121g fat, 140g carbs (88g in PWO shake , and 21g in PPWO meal), and 230g protein. This is a carb/protein/fat split of 22/36/42

Tuesday: Workout
Same as Monday

Wednesday: Off-No Carb
2030 calories, 113g fat, 40g carbs, 202g protien.....carb/protein/fat=8/50/42

Thursday: Workout (Carb Up)
3192 calories, 70g fat, 381g carbs, 266g protein.....carb/protein/fat=48/34/20

Friday: Workout
Same as Monday

Saturday and Sunday: Cardio
Same as Wednesday-No Carb


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## Jodi (Apr 27, 2006)

With a TKD you don't do carb ups or carb days.

Are you sure you are following a TKD?


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## ddawg (Apr 28, 2006)

Jodi said:
			
		

> With a TKD you don't do carb ups or carb days.
> 
> Are you sure you are following a TKD?



Yeah, I think so.  I got it on another site.  It said to do a carb up per week but I wasn't sure if all my days were set up right.  Here is the article:


Most of the people that come to me seeking personal training advice have their number one priority listed as dropping bodyfat. And when I say most, I am talking about 75-80%. The sad part is a big percentage of those people were NOT fat when they started bodybuilding. Yes, they got that way trying to ???bulk up???. I guess you can say they were successful at ???bulking??? if you consider fat to be ???bulk???. What they should have been doing is ???muscling up???. That is rarely done until the trainee is quite experienced. The yo-yo approach can work well if you are blessed with a great metabolism??????few are. Had they done it right they wouldn???t be in that situation. But, past mistakes are best left in the past. This article is about how to leave those mistakes in the past where they belong, and give you some general guidelines about timed-carb dieting, which I FIRMELY believe is the best approach to dropping the bodyfat while at a bare minimum retaining 100% of your muscle mass, and in the VAST majority of cases, adding some muscle and lots of strength while shedding the unwanted fat.

Before I outline the timed carb strategy, I am going to go over the typical types of diets followed by those in search of their abs, and talk about the pros and cons of each technique. Lets get started!

Low calorie, low fat diets
This is probably the #1 approach taken by those that have taken the plunge into the realm of dieting and it also happens to be the #1 reason many are afraid to diet. Why are they afraid? Because past experience has taught them that when dieting, they lose hard-earned muscle. And with this type of diet you can EXPECT at least a 50/50 muscle to fat loss ratio! YES! You lose 10 lbs and at LEAST 5 is usually muscle!!! Why? You first need to understand a bit about bodyfat metabolism. Your body stores bodyfat as ???reserve fuel??? in case of famine. Which is not much of a problem in today???s world in industrialized countries. OK, now you???re fat and you decide to drop it using this approach. The problem is, that when carbs are present, the fat burning pathways, which are driven by an enzymatic process are SHUT-DOWN, because carbs produce the release of insulin in your system, and insulin stops the enzymatic processes that allows you to burn bodyfat as a fuel source.

But wait! Calories are too low to fuel basal metabolism, and since your body can???t burn fat what is left? Ahhhh, you guessed it! Protein! Where does this protein come from? Well first your body will convert the recently ingested protein to glucose, but that still doesn???t cover daily caloric demands. So what next? Yup, your body starts catabolizing it???s own muscle to use as a fuel source, and???..you LOSE!

ISO-Caloric Diets
This is the diet made famous by Barry Sears of the ???Zone Diet??? fame. The idea here is to make the diet as balanced between protein/carbs/fats as possible and reduce insulin secretion as much as possible. These types of diets do quite a bit better at holding onto muscle while beating down the fat than low-cal, low-fat diets, but once caloric levels get low enough to drop bodyfat levels at a reasonable rate, you will still be chewing up a bunch of muscle unless on a LOT of gear, and you won???t really be on an ISO ratio if you are going to be getting enough protein to build/maintain muscle. These types of diets (with additional protein skewing a true iso-caloric profile) are GREAT while adding mass, but not really what the bodybuilder needs to get rid of bodyfat. Same problem as listed above arises since carbs/insulin are still present.

Keto Diets
These diets are based on the fact that when you reduce carbs to ZERO, and keep it that way for a period of anywhere from 12 hours to 48 hours (dependant an a variety of factors) your body will shift from first burning carbs, to then burning fats, to ultimately converting fats into ketones, and using the ketones as the primary fuel source. The name given to this process is ketosis, hence the name keto-diet. Keto diets are protein sparing, which means your body will tend to hold on to protein (muscle) which is exactly what we want when dieting.

These diets do work extremely well for dropping bodyfat while holding onto muscle. Just what the aspiring bodybuilder wants. So what???s the catch? Well??????the catch is that to achieve and stay in actual ketosis, you usually have to be carb-free about 2 days. These diets are typically done by going without any carbs for 5 days (sometimes 6) and then doing a 1 or 2 day ???carb-up??? and repeating the cycle. Sound simple? Try it and then tell me how easy it is. If you can breach that stumbling block, you then reach the second problem. Without ANY carbs for so many days performance in the gym suffers. So while these diets are protein sparing, they don???t allow you to go all out in the gym, and you end up losing strength because you are held at reign in the gym. The third big reason they fail many is because with zero carbs, and low calorie levels, thyroid metabolism tends to get S-L-O-W-E-R. Bad thing! Even with these drawbacks, this is not a bad diet for dropping bodyfat and definitely many notches above the previously mentioned diets. But??????there is a better way! Enter timed-carb dieting!

Timed Carb Diets
A timed carb diet works on the same basic principle as a keto-diet. Take away the bodies preferred fuel source (carbs) and provide enough fat in the diet that the body will switch to using fat as the fuel. But instead of going 5-6 days without ANY carbs, this diet allows you to take in carbs when they are most needed, and least likely to spill over into fat stores???right after the workout. Also, since we are not worried about actually hitting ketosis and staying in ketosis, if you slip, or just feel the need to bump up carbs a bit to replenish glycogen stores, you didn???t just bump yourself out of the ketogenic state you just spent 2 days to achieve.

What do these diets accomplish?
Fat is burned as the preferred fuel source and protein (read that muscle) is spared.
Performance in the gym stays good.
Thyroid function remains higher for a longer period of time.
You don???t go out of your head waiting 5 days to eat some damn carbs!

OK, now the how-to of a timed carb diet. Again, we are trying to get the body to switch from being a carb or protein-burning machine into a fat burning machine. Remember, if caloric levels are low, and carbs, thus insulin is high, your body will convert protein to carbs via glucogenisys and that is to be avoided at all costs. Anyway, to get on the path of burning fat as fuel, we simply remove the carbs out of the equation, AND keep fat in the diet at (at least) a 40-50% ratio. This lets the body know there is still a primary fuel source (fat) and allows it to be burned as fuel, while sparing protein

So, we decide to start a timed carb diet on Monday. Sunday night you cut out the carbs about three hours before bed. When you wake up in the morning blood sugar levels will be very low, and your body will be wanting some carbs---too bad, it doesn???t get any! You will eat only fat and protein. Ensuring fat makes up at LEAST 40% of the caloric profile. You may have a leafy green salad with oil based dressing, or some string-beans, or other such low-carb veggie, BUT NO MORE THAN 6-8 grams of carbs per feeding. You keep this up right until pre-workout, where an apple is allowed IF you feel the need to put a few carbs in your system to raise energy levels. MOST guys do not find this to be necessary and if it does not provide a big advantage DON???T do it. If the carbs don???t help much, have a small protein drink and proceed with the workout.

Post-workout, and it???s time to replenish the carb-stores in the muscles you just worked. As the vast majority of you already know, immediately after a hard weight training session there is a ???window of opportunity??? in the muscle cell when insulin sensitivity is very high and the body is most receptive to nutrient uptake. So???..you slam down 65-100 grams of fast liquid carbs (malto-dextrin, dextrose, and yes, even sucrose will work). About 10 minutes later follow it up with a 65-100 gram whey protein drink. As soon as you are hungry again, you can eat a small ???regular??? meal with a 40/30/30 protein/carb/fat profile to ???top off the tank??? of glycogen stores in the muscle. Then, you are back to zero or trace amounts of carbs until the next workout.

You then repeat the this format for a maximum of five days, and then have a 1-2 day carb-up. On days that you don???t train, you don???t eat any carbs except for a green salad or two. You do not have to run these no carb to carb days for the full five days and for many of you, having a lower ratio of no carb Vs. carb days will be advantageous. Also you do NOT have to do the carb days back-to back. You may do a couple of no carb days, followed by one or more carb days. This is determined on YOUR metabolism and how fast you want to drop the bodyfat.

Pretty simple huh? Well, I haven???t given you ALL the details, but close enough to get most of you at least much closer to being able to put together a successful diet plan on your own, and if you want to have ALL the details in place, consider having me train you!

Do???s and don???ts:
If you don???t keep the fat ratio AT LEAST 40% your body will just continue to use carbs as fuel. How does this happen if all you are eating is chicken breasts as an example? Well your body has no problems converting protein to carbs and WILL do this if it doesn???t sense an alternate fuel source (fats.)
This type of diet tends to work best with lower overall workout days, so if you are a volume trainer who is in the gym 6 days a week (bad idea in any case IMO) you will see decreased results since every day will be a carb day. It will still work however.

Log your food intake for at LEAST a week to ensure you are hitting your numbers for both macro-nutrient profile, and overall kcals. You might just find out how far off you are from where you ???thought??? you were.

Your carb-up days are designed to refill the glycogen stores in the muscle, and bump up caloric levels a bit to keep your thyroid off balance. They are not go all-out berserk pig-out days. MANY, MANY lifters make this mistake and cancel out all the fat loss they achieved up until the carb-up day(s).

Do cardio when dieting. No it is not mandatory, but it makes such a big difference for such little effort and time expended that is extremely short-sighted to not include it as part of your fat-loss plan.

Don???t be in a big hurry to drop the bodyfat. You didn???t get fat overnight (well, some of you almost did) so don???t try to lose it overnight. You should work along the lines of about this much fat loss a week:
150-200 lb trainees, 1.5 lbs a week
200-250 lb trainees, 2 lbs a week
250+ 2 to 2-1/2b lbs a week

Going much more aggressive than that and strength gains will slow or stop, and catabolism may set in.

If you are just starting a reduced volume (or realistic training program) the scale may be worthless at first. Many people are able to gain a significant amount of muscle when dieting like this. Use the mirror and calipers (or better yet hydro-static weighing) to determine your rate of success.

You WILL end up looking flat by day 3-4, this is NOT representative of what you will look like when fully carbed-up. Remember, each gram of glycogen in the muscle brings 3 grams of water with it. When glycogen stores are down (and they will be) when doing low carbs you will ???appear??? smaller. It???s just water, don???t sweat it!

This type of diet lends itself well to getting a large percentage of daily caloric levels from protein powder and EFA???s (essential fatty acids), and that makes it convenient to do.

I will at some point put out another article aimed at how to stay lean while adding mass, and as you might guess it is a variation of this basic format.

There you go, get that damn bodyfat off you and become a true bodybuilder. You know, one who isn???t afraid to take his shirt off-lol.

And, again, If you want ALL the pieces of diet/routine and supplementation laid out for you including exact macronutrient and kcal requirements, consider having me train you!


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## Trouble (Apr 28, 2006)

If you're skinny-fat, do you *know and understand* the significance of the metabolic issue implied by the that term (skinny fat)?

I think we need clarification.  

Tell me what you think is the primary metabolic issue behind the skinny-fat body shape.


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## ddawg (Apr 28, 2006)

Trouble said:
			
		

> If you're skinny-fat, do you *know and understand* the significance of the metabolic issue implied by the that term (skinny fat)?
> 
> I think we need clarification.
> 
> Tell me what you think is the primary metabolic issue behind the skinny-fat body shape.



I don't know....help me out.


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## Tha Don (Apr 28, 2006)

what is a TCD?


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## ddawg (Apr 28, 2006)

Tha Don said:
			
		

> what is a TCD?



It is a Timed Carb Diet....I posted the article earlier in the thread.


BTW, I just wanted to see if on carb up days on this type of diet, do you think it would be ok to have an apple and some blueberries or do you have to avoid fruit altogether?  I was planning on having an apple, some blueberries, veggies, and oatmeal on my carb ups.


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## Tough Old Man (Apr 28, 2006)

ddawg said:
			
		

> Yeah, I think so. I got it on another site. It said to do a carb up per week but I wasn't sure if all my days were set up right. Here is the article:
> 
> 
> Most of the people that come to me seeking personal training advice have their number one priority listed as dropping bodyfat. And when I say most, I am talking about 75-80%. The sad part is a big percentage of those people were NOT fat when they started bodybuilding. Yes, they got that way trying to ???bulk up???. I guess you can say they were successful at ???bulking??? if you consider fat to be ???bulk???. What they should have been doing is ???muscling up???. That is rarely done until the trainee is quite experienced. The yo-yo approach can work well if you are blessed with a great metabolism??????few are. Had they done it right they wouldn???t be in that situation. But, past mistakes are best left in the past. This article is about how to leave those mistakes in the past where they belong, and give you some general guidelines about timed-carb dieting, which I FIRMELY believe is the best approach to dropping the bodyfat while at a bare minimum retaining 100% of your muscle mass, and in the VAST majority of cases, adding some muscle and lots of strength while shedding the unwanted fat.
> ...


This is taken from Iron addicts post.


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## ddawg (Apr 28, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> This is taken from Iron addicts post.



Yeah, that is where I got it from.


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## Vieope (Apr 28, 2006)

Tha Don said:
			
		

> what is a TCD?


_I thought it was an IM member.  _


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## Trouble (Apr 28, 2006)

Skinny fat isn't going to respond favorably to a cyclic carb diet.  The problem lies in a lack of adequate aerobic exercise and a reliance on higher GI carb s and saturated fats for energy, both of which, in the absence of aerobic exercise, induce insulin.

In the first case, with a diet of higher GI carbs, the glucose that is intended to supply energy is instead stored and the fatty acids released from liver in their place are poorly metabolized because the proper signals for fatty acid transport into mitochonrdria are also missing.  In other words, both glucose and fat metabolsm suck.

In the second case, where the majority of energy supplied is intended to come from fats in the diet (the standard low carb diet), if the fats are saturated, they cause a change in choleserol metabolism.  The fatty acids released -- just as they are in the glucose impaired metabolic state -- bind to gene regulator sites.  These cause the same metabolic issues, just as faulty glucose regulation does - a protein burning, inefficiently energetic catabolic state, lethargy, impaired immune function, sleep problems, digestion issues, and because liver function is impaired, bile acid problems as well. That means you don't take up fat soluble vitamins, and that leads ot vitamin deficiencies, and can cause terrible hunger early in the morning and very late at night - a hallmark symptom of this condition - one that can lead to binge eating.

You end up with elevated blood lipids, feel tired, achy (the immune system issues), have a lack of concentration, and a marked tendency towards hypoglycemia. You may be irritated easily, and begin to show signs of thyroid issues, and later, problems with lowered sex hormone production, loss of sex drive and impaired sex performance.  Sound familiar?

Your body mass declines, but not from fat burning, from muscle loss. Fat is stored in the skinny fat state, and muscle is burned for energy, when the diet is higher in fats, or carbs or both, and lacking in adequate protein, under conditions of little or no exercise.

Fat burning is low...thats muscle mass being consumed for energy.

If this is your condition going into an exercise program - that you have elevated liver lipids, have had recent weight gain, show signs of insulin resistance, then this diet is not going to work for you.  

If you have been exercising for a while, but have had a heavy stress load and higher fat mass, along with ample use of whey (which can impair insulin response when used for more than 2 meals per day if only anaerobic strength training is used) and little or no cardio for a while...again, your insulin sensitivity is impaired and its NOT going to get better on this diet of yo-yo carb swings.

Just as the body is reaching a point of response, you begin to feed it carbs that once again, boost insulin production and keep it high for an artificially long period of time.  

For this diet to work - you must have metabolically active muscle mass - and it must represent a critical fraction of your total mass.  

the other key factor is not the carb carlorie number...its the type of carbs and the way they release glucose, plus the forms of protein you're consuming.

You need fiber to parse...to slow down the rate of glucose presentation to the intestinal muscusal cells that take it up, absorb it and transport it liver and muscle cells.  You also need to be aware of the insulin boosting capacity of your protein source, if its whey.  If you rely on whey to provide more than two small meals a day, you're also jacking your insulin up, spiking it...outside of the exercise / exertion window of fat and glucose burning.

Not a good idea, as it can lead to more storage of energy, as fat in adipose tissue.

So you need to have a bit of insulin management in mind when you attempt this diet. Its not how much carb your loading, its whether or not those carbs can be utilized for energy - whether its taken up and formed into glycogen, as only a healthy liver and active muscle mass can do - and whether that insulin can get into sells and take glucose along with it - thats the measure of whether or not this diet approach will work for you.

Its not a one size fits all diet.  One easy way to tell if this diet isn't for you...if you feel tired and bloat after your carb up day, one of two items is needing changing...you change the carbs your eating and improve the fiber content at the same time, or you reduce the carbs your trying to inefficiently take up...

Food for thought:  the power of this diet is to provide an insulin punch and otherwise to provoke efficient fat burning when glucose is absent from the diet.  If the insulin can';t do its job, all your going to do is store fat every couple of days.

OTOH, when insulin sensitivity is very high, the anabolic capacity of insulin can;t be touched by test.  No comparison - its much more potent.  

Hells bells, that the secret behind whey being such a damned good protein source...but only if your insulin is functioning normally.  And glucose?  Thats magic, in terms of athletic performance, mental sharpness and healthby attitude and sleep (cortisol control, too), and proper immune function - again, only when insulin and all the parts of glucose metabolism (including storage) are working properly in liver, brain, muscle.

Now do you see why I asked that question about whether you understand the rationale behind this diet?


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## BulkMeUp (Apr 29, 2006)

Trouble said:
			
		

> Skinny fat isn't going to respond favorably to a cyclic carb diet.


For the past couple of years I've been doing a BB diet (6meals a day ..et al). But all i keep doing is yo-yoing between 150-175 (13-17% bf. @height 6'. 38yo). I have learnt a lot during this time (mucho gracias to Emma and Jodi)and my diet has gotten much cleaner and controlled now than when i started 2 years ago, which is definately a big factor. I follow a linear diet instead of a cyclical diet.

Presently I've cut down to 149/12% (as of today). I've done a calorie cycle diet for the past several weeks and will start bulking shortly.  Of the diets listed in the above post (Iso-Cal, TKD ..etc) or otherwise, which would you consider most appropriate for skinny-fats to increase LBM?


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## Trouble (Apr 29, 2006)

If the skinny-fat types get their metabolic house in order...there's no reason that they can't use carbs and fats for energy, right?  Keep the fats to the healthy types that promote good lipid metabolism (because scientists have discovered over the last decade that these fats also function as gene regulators - that pretty fricking important to understand here...they regulate important processes in many tissues...including thyroid.  Thyroid hormone action isn't good in the skinny fat types).  

Your diet should feature 30-50g of high quality fiber from whole foods. To get that much fiber, you're eating a shit load of carbs...we don't tend to count them much, but they're every bit as important as the starchy faster digesting carbs, in terms of energy production.  

The importance of vegetable and cereal fiber: it slows down glucose release, it *functionally* (gene binding again) regulates insulin release from pancreas, it changes the density of food and slows its down, for better digestion, it binds fats and either improves their uptake (the good kind) or limits the uptake of unhealthy fats.  Mosty importantly, it feeds your gut microbial community, and optimizes food absorption and vitamin synethsis (this microbial community produce vitamins and cofactors that we can't make ourselves).

And that fiber, its got one more crucial benefit.  It helps control production of the transport globulins for thyroid and for sex hormones.  Insulin insensitivity increases production of these transport globulins and decreases the action of both thyroid hormone and sex hormones (including the androgens we want for their anabolic action).  

See?  You don't hear shit about this on these web sites.  Thats why I'm here.  And this is the only website that I'll be posting these critical points on...

So your diet, its pretty much the same in terms of nutritional unit types.  You want to cut?  Fewer calories, a litle less of the energy supply types...just enough to meet your needs plus maybe 5-10% for storage.  Fats get increased, just a bit.  And protein goes up, again, not a whole lot, and you feature whole protein outside of the exertion window.

Use either use amino acids or BCAAs, plus a little creatine, and a few supps that can further enhance insulin sensitivity.  These are your moneymaker tweeks to keep anabolism rates high thoughtout the day and to encourage growth hormone production, naturally.

See?  Once your food intake goes up, your insulin sensitivity can drop...because you're constantly pushing insulin with larger meals.  The trick is to increase the number of meals by one or two, and to use those ketogenic amino acids to promote protein building.  They signal for protein synthesis and repair of training damage in muscle, they promote glucose storage, and they limit proteolytic breakdown of muscle fiber for energy (catabolism).   

This is vital for the skinny fat types, because with hindered energy production from fat and glucose, you tend to have a hair trigger for protein breakdown...because you easily become hypoglycemic.  Therefore, frequent small meals and those amino acid triggers to thwart blood sugar variation, thats key here.

With it, you need to *increase* slightly, your cardio training and pay strict attention to stress management and sleep timing and quality.  They're the big blockers of protein synthesis, along with a shortage of amino acids.

The most important message I'm bringing to this forum:  the old ideas of bulking and cutting are DUMB and COUNTERPRODUCTIVE when practiced for long periods, in cycles, by encouraging insulin insensitivity.

The guys who are "gifted"??  One of the perks of is that they have very solid glucose metabolism by genetics....even then, with dietary fuckups and use of certain drugs and supps that promote insulin insensitivity, it can backfire in later years.  

Does this make sense?


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## ddawg (Apr 29, 2006)

I posted some pics in this thread.  


http://ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=62195



What type of diet should I do based on my pics.  I'm trying to lose that fat.  The only time my fat really shows is when I sit.  It might even be loose skin.....I lost a lot of weight about 2 years ago.  I really wanted to try the TCD but I don't know now.  What do you think?


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## Trouble (Apr 29, 2006)

Peeped your thread with the pics.  You've done a great job of losing weight.

Are you plateaued? Your body can be going thru dramatic changes in muscle to fat ratio (density), which doesn't show up on the scales, but it's obivous, from the changes in how clothes fit, how you feel. That's why I don't advocate using  a scale for absolute conformation of goal progress for body recomposition.

You mention being skinny-fat at one time.  If you're putting on muscle and taking off fat, you must be doing the right thing..you could try eating more vegetable, the fiberous ones, make sure your fats are the unsaturated healthy types, parse out fat and carbs, might try keeping energy carbs to morning and early afternoon meals and fats to later in the day for energy.  If you're not using sesathin, add it to your supps list.

Your residual fat is abdominal, VAT (visceral adipose tissue), I don't think its SAT (subcutaneous adipose tissue).  Watch your stress response, get your sleep, and if it continues to be a problem, try a spot fat lipolytic agent, Lipoderm or one of its kin.


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## ddawg (Apr 29, 2006)

Trouble said:
			
		

> Peeped your thread with the pics.  You've done a great job of losing weight.
> 
> Are you plateaued? Your body can be going thru dramatic changes in muscle to fat ratio (density), which doesn't show up on the scales, but it's obivous, from the changes in how clothes fit, how you feel. That's why I don't advocate using  a scale for absolute conformation of goal progress for body recomposition.
> 
> ...




Thanks a lot!!! No, I haven't plateud at all.  I can lose weight really easily.  The only thing I can't stand is my abdominal area.  I'm frustrated b/c whether I've been at 160 or bulked to 190 I've had that same gut.  I started this week taking Sesamin and Camphibolic so I'll see how that goes.  I'm just not really sure whether to try to lose, gain, or maintain my weight.  Do you think I should continue with this TCD diet?  If so, on my carb up day, is it ok to eat fruit like apples and blueberries?  Or should I do something different?  Right now I'm sitting at about 175 lbs.  I also don't know if I have loose skin or fat.  When I'm standing I'd say I have fat but when I bend my torso over my stomach just kind of hangs nad is really soft.  I guess the overriding feeling I have is confusion.


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## Trouble (Apr 29, 2006)

Whoa  boy!  Anybody who's had a history of insulin insensitivity MUST be cautious with carbs when using a forskolin containing product.

Ditto with a formula like Melt Point.  See?  You get folks using forskolin, which helps insulin sensitivity, but if you're throwing carbs down the hatch that cause insulin to spike, its counterproductive...your're trying to *reduce* insulin production and increase its activity.

Word of warning.  Those who have had few sides have had their glucose metabolism fine tuned and working. Also be very careful with fats when using these products.  Healthy fats only.

Otherwise, you should do very well on these products.  Glad to hear you can loose the SAT easily...to lose the VAT, you'll need to be very careful of diet (as BBW and others pointed out in your picture thread) and use *cardio* to help keep your insulin catalyzed glucose metabolism functioning normally.

Add more fiber / fiberous carbs, and don't *worry* about bulking.  You follow my recommendations, and that excess insulin can be used to pack on muscle mass.  Sans streroids.


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## BulkMeUp (Apr 29, 2006)

Trouble said:
			
		

> Keep the fats to the healthy types that promote good lipid metabolism (because scientists have discovered over the last decade that these fats also function as gene regulators - that pretty fricking important to understand here...they regulate important processes in many tissues...including thyroid.  Thyroid hormone action isn't good in the skinny fat types).


I keep my fat breakdown at 50% monounsat (mostly from cold pressed EVOO), 25% polyunsat and 25% for the rest @0.4-0.5g per lbm. Is that split effective for what you are refering to about fat intake?



			
				Trouble said:
			
		

> The most important message I'm bringing to this forum:  the old ideas of bulking and cutting are DUMB and COUNTERPRODUCTIVE when practiced for long periods, in cycles, by encouraging insulin insensitivity.


What length of time do you consider a long preiod wherein things start to get counterproductive? Is it better to bulk a bit, sit at maintenence and recomp a bit, then cut if needed .. reverse and repeat?



			
				Trouble said:
			
		

> Does this make sense?


It sure does. Thanks for the info. I'll have to transalate and apply it in a practical form to my next bulk diet. I know you said that bulking is an old idea, but i look at bulking as a way to increase lbm with minimal fat gains. I dont know how else to think of that process


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## ddawg (Apr 29, 2006)

Trouble said:
			
		

> Whoa  boy!  Anybody who's had a history of insulin insensitivity MUST be cautious with carbs when using a forskolin containing product.
> 
> Ditto with a formula like Melt Point.  See?  You get folks using forskolin, which helps insulin sensitivity, but if you're throwing carbs down the hatch that cause insulin to spike, its counterproductive...your're trying to *reduce* insulin production and increase its activity.
> 
> ...




So do I abandon the whole TCD thing?  What macro split should I look to if I need to stop the TCD?  This is what my TCD diet was looking like:

*Wednesday/Saturday/Sunday--Off/Cardio*

calories/carb/protein/fat

6:30
2 Camphibolic
1 Green Tea Pill
15g Whey

6:45
30 minutes low intensity cardio

7:00
25g Whey

7:30
1 Fish Oil Pill
1 Sesamin
10g Almonds
1/2 Tbs. Olive Oil
5 Egg Whites
1 Natural Cheese Stick

346/3/30/24

9:30
1 Tbs. Natural PB
1 Natural Cheese Stick
14g Whey

220/4/24/11

12:00
4 Egg Whites
1/2 Tbs. Olive Oil
25g Chicken Breast
1 Tbs. PB

275/4/26/16

2:30
30g Whey
10g Walnuts
5g Almonds

215/5/26/11

5:00
1 Fish Oil
1 Sesamin
4 Egg Whites
1 Tbs. PB
5g Walnuts
25g Chicken Breast

268/5/27/14

7:30
1 Fish Oil
1 Sesamin
1 Tbs. Olive Oil
2 Cups Brocolli
6 oz (raw) Chicken Breast

417/14/45/19

10:00
2 Fish Oil
1 Tbs. PB
1/2 Tbs. Olive Oil
50g Chicken Breast

267/3/20/19

Totals 2130 calories/42g carbs/221g protien/115g fat


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## ddawg (Apr 29, 2006)

*Monday/Tuesday/Friday--Weights*
calories/carbs/protein/fat

7:00
2 Camphibolic
1 Fish Oil Pill
1 Sesamin
1 Green Tea Pill
5 Egg Whites
1 Tbs. Natural PB
1/2 Tbs. Olive Oil
5g Walnuts

337/6/24/24

9:30(Pre-Workout)
1 Tbs. Natural PB
20g Whey
1 Natural Cheese Stick
55g Oatmeal

431/41/33/15

11:30 (PWO)
40g Whey
40g Oatmeal
50g Dextrose

501/80/40/5

12:30 (PPWO Meal)
25g Chicken Breast
1 Cup Skim Milk
50g Oatmeal
1 Cup Blueberries

394/64/25/4

2:30
5 Egg Whites
1 Cheese Stick
30g Oatmeal
150g Apple
1 Fish Oil
1 Sesamin

359/42/32/7

5:00
1 Fish Oil
1 Sesamin
4 Egg White
1 Tbs. PB
5g Almonds
1/2 Tbs. Olive Oil

284/5/20/20

7:30
6oz (raw) Turkey Breast Tenderloin
Side Salad
1 Tbs. Olive Oil
1 Fish Oil
1 Sesamin

354/6/42/17

10:00
2 Fish Oil
1 Tbs. PB
1 Tbs Olive Oil
1 oz Turkey Breast
50g Chicken Breast

357/3/27/26

Grand Totals: 2585 calories/141g carbs/230g protein/122g fat



*Thursday--Weights and Carb Up*
calories/carb/protein/fat

7:00
5 Egg Whites
25g Chicken Breast
150g Apple
1 Fish Oil
1 Green Tea
1 Multi
1 Sesamin
2 Camphibolic
80g Oatmeal

572/75/39/13

9:30 (Pre-Workout)
14g Whey
1 Tbs. Natural PB
1 Natural Cheese Stick
55g Oatmeal
150g Apple

400/58/30/7

11:30 PWO
40g Whey
30g Oatmeal
50g Dextrose

462/74/36/4

1:30 PPWO
5 Egg Whites
1 Cheese Stick
60g Oatmeal
1/2 Cup Blueberries

411/50/37/7

2:30
25g Chicken Breast
1 Cup skim Milk
1 Fish Oil
1 Sesamin
1 Tbs. PB
30g Oatmeal

372/35/25/13

5:00
12g Whey
1 Cup Skim Milk
50g Oatmeal
2 Fish Oil

350/47/25/7


7:30
2 Salmon Fillets
124g Green Beans
Side Salad
5g Almonds

320/18/41/10

10:00
25g Chicken Breast
1 Cup Skim Milk
1/2 Tbs. Olive Oil
10g Whey
10g Walnuts

295/15/26/15

Totals: 3192calories/381g carbs/266g protein/70g fat


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