# Low Test and High EQ dose



## Ghostnight (Feb 12, 2012)

Hey guys

Im looking at doin a cycle of say 300mg test e and 700mg eq. Any one done this and what were the results like. A 15-20 week cycle.

Im looking at along lean bulk, steady and keepable gains.

thanx


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## boss (Feb 12, 2012)

Why do you want low test? I'm doing 750test/600eq again right now. Up you test imo and you can get some very solid gians.

What's your cycle history? Stats?


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## Ghostnight (Feb 13, 2012)

Very gyno prone so i just wanna try eq to build and test just to keep me happy...


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## tinyshrek (Feb 13, 2012)

I know peeps who have done this. If ya do it would be good to throw some Var in. You will see a lot of roundness and vascularity from EQ at 20 weeks


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## Ghostnight (Feb 13, 2012)

tinyshrek said:


> I know peeps who have done this. If ya do it would be good to throw some Var in. You will see a lot of roundness and vascularity from EQ at 20 weeks


I'll look into it. What were there results if u know?


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## tinyshrek (Feb 13, 2012)

If your looking for a solid 10lbs of muscle go for it. Not the bloated 20 lbs pound you get from stuff like test,dbol,drol etc. if your diets clean and gear is legit ran with var and light test for libido you should be good to go. I might try this next off season as well and blast wit some tren


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## Ghostnight (Feb 14, 2012)

Then im gona give it a go. My gear is legit and diet very clean and strict. Will maybe do a little mini log. Looking at doin this more to june/july side tho.


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## boss (Feb 14, 2012)

You can take stuff for the gyno problems...


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## Ghostnight (Feb 14, 2012)

boss said:


> You can take stuff for the gyno problems...


i have to take to high of an AI dose and then it hinder gains. Im leaning towards aromasin on this cycle at 20mg eod.


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## tinyshrek (Feb 14, 2012)

That sounds good.


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## Usealittle (Feb 14, 2012)

The base of the cycle I just started is 250mg cyp/750+mg EQ with little extras here and there but we will see how it works. My reason for it is I'm VERY gyno prone and don't want to take any chances of it growin any more. I know ai's work but can't chance it, plus I forget to take pills alot!


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## XYZ (Feb 14, 2012)

It can be done.

I can't tell you because I've never tried it but I did do something similar.  300mg test and 700mg primo.


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## withoutrulers (Feb 14, 2012)

XYZ said:


> It can be done.
> 
> I can't tell you because I've never tried it but I did do something similar.  300mg test and 700mg primo.


I apologise if this question is hijacking, but what would you say are the benefits to primo? It seems over priced for the gains most talk about.


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## Vibrant (Feb 14, 2012)

Eq is one of the best aas for collagen synthesis but here's the catch if you go over 300mg of test, the test negates the collagen benefits of eq. at least that's what I recall being told by an expert. (I may have gotten it a little wrong though, someone else will have to verify what I said)


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## Vibrant (Feb 14, 2012)

withoutrulers said:


> I apologise if this question is hijacking, but what would you say are the benefits to primo? It seems over priced for the gains most talk about.



I've never used primo (not rich enough) but iirc it is one of the best for nitrogen retention, plus it doesnt aromatize.

here's a profile on it:


*Primobolan*

*(methenolone acetate)*

Primobolan is one of those anabolic steroids which has a cult following not unlike the old original version of Masteron.  Actually, as you can easily see from its anabolic:androgenic ratio  below in the profile, its a pretty weak steroid but actually stronger(!)  than Masteron in both regards. I dont know anyone who has run both  compounds at the same dose. We are probably justified in speculating  that youd probably get similar results from either of them, when you  consider the fact that you are getting quite a bit less actual drug and  more ester when you choose injectable Primobolan (which has the very  long Enanthate ester attached to it) over Masteron (which has the very  short propionate  ester attached to it). In truth, I think part of the reason many  Primobolan users have been disappointed is that they failed to use  enough of it, for long enough. From its chemical structure and  anabolic:androgenic rating, we can assume it is at least as effective as  Masteron, on an equal Mg for mg basis. However, due to its ester (in  the injectable version), it needs to be run for at least 12 weeks to see  the full benefits from it. When you consider a measly dose of 400mgs of  this stuff for 12 weeks will probably cost you around $500.

Its  easy to see why many people have tried to use less...and have been  disappointed with their results. On the other hand, many competitive  bodybuilders consider Primobolan indespensible to their pre-contest drud  routine, and wouldnt consider dieting without it. Anyway...I think the  comparison to Masteron (another great precontest drug) is the best one  we can make, with reference to expected gains and results.
I happen to be one of the few people who have used Drostanolone Enanthate (Masteron with the Enanthate ester attached) as well as Methenolone Enanthate  (injectable Primobolan). I can tell you that the results from these two  compounds, when ester and mg potency are the same, are in fact very  similar. 
*Effects of Primobolan*

Lets  flesh out some of the various general effects of Primobolan, before we  get into the differences between the oral and injectable versions... One  study performed on sheep involved administering 100mgs of Methenolone,  and electronically stimulating their lats (electronic stimulation was  used because they kept falling off the chin-up bars). Anyway, when  compared with the lat muscles of sheep who didnt receive Methenolone,  the receiving group gained significantly more muscle mass as well as  strength (1)(2). Its also has a relatively high affinity for binding to  the AR, actually binding better than testosterone  (3). This ability to strongly bind to the AR may be why Primobolan is  such a good "fat burner." Strong AR binding has been positively  correlated with lypolysis (fat-burning) (8). 
In  addition, as this steroid can actually aid in reducing breast tumors, no  ancillary products need be considered for use with Primobolan, and in  fact, it may actually be a useful ancillary agent in its own right,  similar to Masteron. Also, just like Masteron, Primobolan has no  propensity to aromatize (convert to estrogen). Since it doesnt  aromatize, alot of the side effects commonly associated with estrogen  will not be of concern. This means water retention, acne, and gyno will  be non-existent more or less. this lack of water retention combined with  the slow and steady gains provided by Primo may help to explain why it  has earned a reputation for creating quality muscle gains. This also  helps to explain why it is so expensive. Although estrogenic sides are  not a concern, hair loss still, remains a very real concern with  Primobolan, as with many DHT-Derived steroids. Many primobolan fans  always include Finasteride and Ketoconazole (shampoo) in cycles containing Primobolan.
Although  nobody would ever suggest to use Primobolan as a bulking agent, its  been studied as an agent to halt wasting and possibly reverse many of  the adverse effects of anemia. It is a shocking failure in both areas,  according to some of the case studies Ive read, (5)(6) and this should  come to no surprise to anyone. Anadrol  reigns supreme in this area, and nobody in the athletic community would  ever compare those two drugs. However, Michael Mooney and many other  respected doctors who work with AIDS patients have found sufficient  evidence to claim that Primobolan is an immune enhancer and as such is  very useful for AIDS patients (not that the FDA cares...Primobolan is  still not approved for sale in the United States). AIDS patients arent  really in need of Bulking Drugs, so an immune enhancer like Primo which  will add small, quality gains in muscle is perfect for them. And since  we arent even going to vaguely consider the use of Primobolan as a  bulking agent, clearly this leaves us with considering it primarily for  use in gaining and maintaining lean tissue. Its a great choice for this  purpose, and many competitors have used it very successfully to retain  muscle while on a calorie reduced diet. The reason Primo is so useful  for this purpose is that one of its primary functions is to help your  body retain nitrogen (7) at a greatly enhanced rate. The greater your  nitrogen retention is, the more muscle you will build. In the case of  using primo as a pre-contest drug, this nitrogen retention will help you  retain muscle and ensure that your dieting preferentially favors fat  loss over muscle loss. 
Primobolan is a very unique  steroid, as it is one of the few that comes in both an oral as well as  an injectable version. I suppose Winstrol  does also, but Primobolan actually has a different ester on the oral  (acetate ) and injectable (Enanthate) versions. The oral version is one  of the more interesting oral compounds Ive looked into. For starters,  its one of the few compounds available to athletes and bodybuilders  which is both oral as well as non-17-alpha-alkylation. This alteration  is (as Im sure you remember from other stuff Ive written) what generally  makes oral steroids survive their first pass through your liver, but  also makes them Hepatoxic (Liver  toxic). Well... oral Primo doesnt have  this feature, so it is very mild on your liver (actually it basically  isnt liver toxic at all), but also is largely destroyed by it, since 17  beta estrification and 1 alkylation is the method used to make this  stuff orally available. Youll need to take a lot of this stuff for it to  be effective... 100mgs/day of the oral version is a safe estimate for  reasonable gains& for women, you could get away with less; perhaps  25mgs/day. Even though the acetate ester has a 2-3 day active life, your  liver will do some damage to oral primo, so every day dosing will still  be necessary.
When men were given a 30-45mg dose of  the oral version of Primo, they experienced a 15-65% decrease in  gonadotropin levels (9). Remember, I said 100mgs is a good dose for  gains... well, youll also reduce your gonadotropin levels considerably. I  have personally never understood why people recommend either oral or  injectable Primobolan as a possible bridging compound for this reason...  maybe at a too-low-to-do-anything dose of 10mgs it could be used as a  bridge. And forget about using injectable Primo to bridge& 
Hey... speaking about injectable Primo... 
Ive  used this stuff at 200mgs/week and wasnt very impressed with it.  Generally, I think injectable primo needs to be used at a dose of at  least 350mgs/week (100mgs/Every other Day), and preferably at a dose of  400-600mgs/week. I happen to like running it with testosterone propionate, but for convenience I would imagine most people would run it with Testosterone Enanthate, to keep dosing times the same (shooting it twice per week, in most cases).
*Buying Primobolan*

The  unfortunate truth about injectable Primo is that its a very expensive  chemical to obtain, and that price is reflected in the cost to the  average consumer. Ten dollars per 1ml/100mg ampule is not unheard of,  and Ive seen it go for more. This is, of course, absurd. As if thats not  enough, this is also the most commonly counterfeited steroids on the  black market. I recommend buying Primobolan (either the oral or  injectable) from a respected Underground lab instead of trying to play a  game of "spot the fake steroid" in Mexico or Europe. The underground  versions should cost between $5-7 for 100mgs of Methenolone and I  wouldnt really consider paying more for it, although I have seen the  British Dragon version of this product priced up to $20/ml. 
*Primobolan Profile*

(Methenolone) 

                (Oral Version is + Acetate Ester) 
                (Injectable Version is + Enanthate Ester) 
                [17beta-Hydroxy-1-methyl-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one] 
                Molecular weight of base: 302.4558 
                Molecular weight of Acetate ester: 60.0524 
                Molecular weight of Enanthate ester: 130.1864 
                Formula: C20H30O2 
                Melting Point: 
                Manufacturer: Schering 
                Effective dose(oral): (Men)50-100mgs/day; (Women) 10-25mgs/day 
                Effective dose (injectable): (Men) 350-600mgs/week; (Women) 100mgs/week 
                Active Life: 10-14 days (injectable); 4-6hrs (oral) 
                Detection Time: 4-5 weeks 
                Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio (Range): 88:44-57 
References: 
 


Anabolic  steroids (metenolone) improve muscle performance and hemodynamic  characteristics in cardiomyoplasty. Ann Thorac Surg. 1995  Apr;59(4):961-9; discussion 969-70. 
Effect of  an anabolic steroid (Metenolon) on contractile performance of the  chronically stimulated latissimus dorsi in sheep. Eur J Cardiothorac  Surg. 1994;8(4):214-9. 
Relative binding  affinity of anabolic-androgenic steroids: comparison of the binding to  the androgen receptors in skeletal muscle and in prostate, as well as to  sex hormone-binding globulin. Endocrinology. 1984 Jun;114(6):2100-6. 
[Anabolic therapy in metastatic breast cancer] Med Klin. 1981 Nov 20;76(24):689-91. German. 
Partial  remission and severe adverse effect caused by metenolone acetate in a  male patient with aplastic anem. Eur J Haematol. 1995 Jul;55(1):57-8. 
Fatal  outcome of a patient with severe aplastic anemia after treatment with  metenolone acetate. Ann Hematol. 1993 Jul;67(1):41-3. 
Metabolic effects of anabolic steroids. Wien Med Wochenschr. 1993;143(14-15):368-75. 
Biochim Biophys Acta. 1995 May 11;1244(1):117-20. 
Comparative Studies about the influence of MetenoloneAcetate and Mesterolone on hypophysis and male gonads. Arzneimittelforshung. 1970 20(4) 545-7 


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## XYZ (Feb 14, 2012)

withoutrulers said:


> I apologise if this question is hijacking, but what would you say are the benefits to primo? It seems over priced for the gains most talk about.


 
Gains are next to nothing but the nitrogen retention is what I like about it. You can run a significant calorie defect and still keep almost all LBM while dropping body fat.

Some like it others don't. It's an individual thing and through trial and error, it works great for me, but you're correct....................legit stuff is expensive.

I never understood why people want to use it as a bulking compound or run it at lower doses (500mg or less)?


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## Ghostnight (Feb 14, 2012)

Primo at 200mg eod and test prop 100mg eod would be a nice cutting cycle. Well i definitely gonna do this cycle now, a third of the stuff already here


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## SloppyJ (Feb 14, 2012)

I liked EQ at 900mg/wk. If I ever run it again, I'm going that or above. Just makes the cycle too long.


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## Ghostnight (Feb 14, 2012)

Also does frontloading really help for eq to kick in faster for those who have tried it?


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## Usealittle (Feb 14, 2012)

^^^^ IMO frontloading sucks.


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## Ghostnight (Feb 14, 2012)

Usealittle said:


> ^^^^ IMO frontloading sucks.


So from ur personal exp it doesn't work or is not worth it?

I mean waiting 6-7 weeks for it to really work can be a b!tch.


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## SloppyJ (Feb 14, 2012)

EQ was pretty mild. I was taking other things at the time but didn't really notice anything until week 10-12.


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## enn1x (Feb 15, 2012)

Running 250mg T and 600mg EQ, something simillar I guess. Lets see how it goes


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## Usealittle (Feb 15, 2012)

Ghostnight said:


> So from ur personal exp it doesn't work or is not worth it?
> 
> I mean waiting 6-7 weeks for it to really work can be a b!tch.




Iv done it with test, used 4extra cc of test only to see it maybe 1wk sooner.... So the 1g of extra test was a waste.


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## Ghostnight (Feb 16, 2012)

Usealittle said:


> Iv done it with test, used 4extra cc of test only to see it maybe 1wk sooner.... So the 1g of extra test was a waste.


Thanx will for get the frontload then and just maybe a tbol or winny kickstart


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