# 3 days  a week split(s)!



## sagejx (Mar 31, 2009)

Hey!I'm 17 years old,about 18% bf and wanna get down to about 10%,with min. mass loss.
I've been training for almost 8 months and I've lost quite a lot of weight,the last layers of fat shall be terminated! Unfortunately I can only train 3 times/week now,so I have to design a good split! Here are the exercises I will be performing and the possible splits;please rate 'em and tell me which one is the "best".

*The exercises*
legs
- laying ham curls - 3x6-8
- standing calf raises - 3x8-10
- good mornings - 3x8-10
- seated calf raises - 3x6-8
- leg extensions - 3x10-12
Chest/biceps
- flat bench - warm up set - 3 working sets of 6-8 reps
- incline DB press - 3x6-8
-Straight bar bicep curl - 3x6-8
- machine pec fly - 8-10 (squeeze and hold it for 2-3sec)
- DB seated hammer curl - 3x6-8
- either incline smith machine or BB decline ( i sub in machines for this sometimes) - 3x8-10
- incline DB curls or incline using the low cables. 3x8-10
Back/triceps
- Wide overhand grip bent over BB rows - 3x6-8
- overhead DB tricep extension with two hands - 3x6-8
- Deadlift - 2 warmup sets then heavy as possible - 3x4-6 
- Close grip bench press - 3x6-8
- behind the neck pull downs 8-10
- over head rope extensions with flat bar push down superset - 3x8-10
- cable rows - close grip - 3x8-10
Shoulders

- Power cleans - 2 warm up sets - 3 working sets 6-8 reps
- DB shoulder press - 3x6-8
- Side DB lateral raises - 3x8-10
- BB shrugs - 3x6-8
- Front lateral DB raises - 3x8-10
- standing overhead BB push press - 3x8-10

*The splits*

Monday: Chest+Biceps
Wednesday : Back+Triceps+Forearm
Friday: Shoulders+Traps+Legs+Abdomen

or

Monday: Chest+Biceps+Triceps+Abs
Wed:  Legs+abs
Fri:  Back+Shoulders+Traps

or

Mon: chest+triceps+shoulders
wed: legs+abs
fri: back+biceps+traps

Thanks!!


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## highpockets (Mar 31, 2009)

sagejx said:


> Hey!I'm 17 years old,about 18% bf and wanna get down to about 10%,with min. mass loss.
> I've been training for almost 8 months and I've lost quite a lot of weight,the last layers of fat shall be terminated! Unfortunately I can only train 3 times/week now,so I have to design a good split! Here are the exercises I will be performing and the possible splits;please rate 'em and tell me which one is the "best".
> 
> *The exercises*
> ...



If I could only train 3 days/week, I would stick to the last split. Push/Legs/Pull. How much time do you spend in the gym on the 3 days in which you do work out and where did you get the idea for your split routines? Did you read the stickies?

You may want to send a private message to P-Funk, he's really good.


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## sagejx (Mar 31, 2009)

The time spent in the gym depends;if it's crowded or not so crowded.I normally stay around 1 hour,including 10 minutes of hiit!However I don't do much cardio 'cus it bores me to death


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## Gazhole (Mar 31, 2009)

I wouldnt discount the benefits a full body split can do for weight loss and work capacity.

But other than that i agree with highpockets and the last split is the only one i would really consider.

The split is just a small part of an overall program however - remember exercise selection, rep ranges, rest intervals, and overall progression throughout the 6-12 weeks of the program. If you don't plan HOW you will succeed, you wont!

Oh, don't forget the golden rules:

1. Do the same number of pushing + pulling exercises.

2. Do the same number of upper body and lower body exercises.

3. Focus mostly on big compound, multiple-joint exercises.

4. Take plenty of rest days.


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## sagejx (Mar 31, 2009)

Is  *chest+triceps+shoulders* the correct order?



Also, 3 exercises for biceps = 9 sets , isn't that too much?

I usually rest aprox. 2 min between sets and 4 min. between ex.


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## Gazhole (Mar 31, 2009)

Try not to think in terms of bodyparts. You body doesnt know or care which bodyparts or individual muscles its using to perform an exercise.

All it knows are the patterns of those movements - like how to actually perform the entire movement.

Think of exercises in terms of movement planes/mechanics.

So a bench press isnt a chest exercise, because it also heavily utilizes the shoulders and the triceps.

A bench press is a "push" exercise for the upper body, because you are PUSHING the weight away from you.

But yeah, i would say 1 exercise with 2-3 sets is fine for biceps. 3 exercises is overkill for such a small muscle.


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## highpockets (Mar 31, 2009)

sagejx said:


> Is  *chest+triceps+shoulders* the correct order?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I normally work Chest/Shoulders/Triceps, in this order, as my chest and shoulder exercises are compound movements. Triceps=isolation exercise. Every once in a while I might switch things up just a bit (Periodization).

In regards to 3 exercises for biceps and 9 sets; like Gazhole said, it depends on what your goals are. If I work by biceps the same day as back, my bi's are already getting a good workout. On these days I usually only do one or two isolation exercises on the biceps. Just remember when you are doing your Pull workout and exercising your back/lats you are in fact working your biceps. I like to incorporate CG and WG pullups into my back workouts which really stresses my arms since my bodyweight equals 245 lbs.

Good Luck!


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## sagejx (Mar 31, 2009)

I was also considering these exercises:

*Chest*
Barbell Bench Press - Medium Grip  
Pec Deck
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press

*Triceps*
Seated Overhead Dumbbell Triceps Extension
Triceps Pushdown

*Shoulders???*
Dumbbell Shoulder Press
Seated Bent Over Rear Delt Raise
Side Lateral Raise

*Back*
Seated Cable Rows
Wide-Grip Pulldowns Behind The Neck
Close-Grip Front Lat Pulldown

*Biceps*
Dumbbell Hammer Curls
Close-Grip EZ Bar Curl

Would it work on that 3d split? (Mon: *chest+shoulders+triceps*
wed: legs+abs
fri: back+biceps+traps)


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## highpockets (Mar 31, 2009)

Looks pretty good! Just an idea and two of my favorite compound movements would be 'dips' for chest/shoulder/tris push day and 'T-bar rows' for back/bis pull day.

Go to it!


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## sagejx (Mar 31, 2009)

Thanks a lot guys


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## Built (Mar 31, 2009)

*Legs*
Quad dominant
-Full back squats
-Full front squats
-Box squats
-Walking lunges/split squats

Hamstring dominant
-Romanian deadlifts
-Glute Ham Raises 
-Good mornings
-SHELC

*Chest AKA Horizontal Pushing*
Barbell Bench Press 
Barbell incline press
Dumbbell flat or incline press
Weighted dips

*Triceps*
Included in pressing work; do one or two concentration movements if desired

*Shoulders AKA Vertical Pushing*
Olympic bar corner press
Hang cleans/clean and press/pushpress
Arnold press

*Back AKA Horizontal and Vertical Pulling*
Horizontal pulling:
-Deadlift
-Bent over rows/Pendlay rows
-T-bar rows
-One-arm dumbbell rows

Vertical pulling:
-Weighted chins / negative only chins - shoulder-width or narrower always; overhand, underhand or neutral grip
-Unweighted chins
- One arm at a time lat pulldowns

**Wide-Grip Pulldowns Behind The Neck**never do these - wide grip trashes your rotator cuffs; behind the neck trashes 'em some more. Both will de-emphasize the lat and there are far more effective ways to work lats anyway. 

*Biceps*
Included in pulling movements; do one or two concentration movements if desired

How about:
*Monday*: Horizontal pull and push; deads 5x5, rows 3x8, flat or incline barbell bench 5x5, flat or incline dumbbell bench 3x8
*Wednesday*: Legs; back squats 5x5, front squats 3x8, Glute Ham Raises or Romanian deads 5x5, walking lunges 3x8 each leg
*Friday*: Vertical push and pull: cleans/clean and press/push press 5x5, Olympic bar corner press 3x8, Weighted chins 5x5, single-arm lat pulldowns 3x8


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## sagejx (Apr 1, 2009)

Hmm I can't really hit it hard when doing *squats,deadlifts* due to having a stupid knee pain  "gained" when I was young and obese It actually hurts kinda bad squatting with no weight at all!  I also have *low-back problems*;that's why I prefer working my back&legs with machines,it doesn't hurt


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## sagejx (Apr 1, 2009)

By the way,I've heard that H.I.T is a very good thing to do if you wanna loose fat,however this HIT training seems quite...easy...to me!I don't think that it will stimulate me enough...What do you guys think?
The goal is to lower my bf,increase endurance,not gain mass


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## T_man (Apr 1, 2009)

if you find HIIT anywhere near the level where it doesnt make you feel sick, then you're not doing the intensity part.

Sprint 25-30 sec at around 85-90% of max sprint speed, as in, you can hardly go any faster even if you tried, then walk for about a minute and a half-3 minutes depending on your fitness levels.

I do it on a steep uphill and run nearly at the point where my knees would buckle if i ran any faster, and then i zig zag down doing stretch-walking. And almost everytime i do it i cant eat straight after because i feel so sick. It should be so intense that doing it 3x a week is pushing it


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## Gazhole (Apr 1, 2009)

Are you talking about:

HIIT - High Intensity Interval Training (Cardio/Sprints)

or

HIT - High Intensity Training (Weights/One set to failure)

???

Either way, if its easy you arent doing it right.


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## sagejx (Apr 1, 2009)

HIT - High Intensity Training,sorry


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## sagejx (Apr 1, 2009)

I was considering to do these ex. for my back:

*Wide-Grip Lat Pulldown
Straight-Arm Pulldown
Elevated Cable Rows*

I feel no pain while doing 'em...


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## Built (Apr 1, 2009)

Keep the grip at shoulder-width or narrower and you'll hit the lats better. The wider you go, the less you hit lats and the more you hit the rotator cuff. 

Up to you.


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## sagejx (Apr 1, 2009)

I see,thank you.
Well I'm ready to try it!


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## T_man (Apr 2, 2009)

my bad I read HIIT; i had previously answered 2 topics on HIIT at the time hehe!

I would do one more exercise for chest (dips) and do one less tricep exercise

I find during my push day my triceps get hit pretty hard as the secondary muscle in everything, chest & shoulder exercises and the lot


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## sagejx (Apr 14, 2009)

hey guys,how many sets/reps should I do on this workout in order to gain strength? 3 sets - 6-8 reps would be ok, or doing HIT- 1 working set taken to failure ?
*my gym is really small and crowded so using the pyramid technique would be hard

*Chest*
Barbell Bench Press
Pec Deck
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press
*Triceps*
Seated Overhead Dumbbell Triceps Extension
Triceps Pushdown
*Shoulders’*
Dumbbell Shoulder Press
Seated Bent Over Rear Delt Raise
Side Lateral Raise
*Back*
Wide-Grip Lat Pulldown
Straight-Arm Pulldown
Elevated Cable Rows
*Biceps*
Dumbbell Hammer Curls
Close-Grip EZ Bar Curl
*Legs*
Leg Extensions
Leg Press
Leg curl(face down)


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## sagejx (Apr 14, 2009)

I was also considering periodization!

      Heavy period - 4 weeks
      Transfer period - 1 week
      Light period - 4 weeks
      Transfer period - 1 week

      Heavy = 4-8 reps, 2 min rest
      Transfer = 6-10 reps, 1 min rest
      Light = 10-15 reps, 40 sec rest
*weight used: max. weight that can allow me do the specific nr of reps and nothing more


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## Built (Apr 14, 2009)

I'm kinda fond of 3-5x5 for heavy compounds, then 3x8 and 2-3x12 for subsequent accessory/concentration work. T-Nation.com | 3 Ways to Get Big!

Now, your exercise selection. 

I'm not seeing deadlifts or squats anywhere. 

"Wide" grip - don't go wider than shoulders. I'd suggest chins as a superior move. 

Legs, I'd ditch leg extensions and curls - and use squats for the heavy compound. Glute ham raises are excellent for hams, as are good mornings and Romanian deadlifts. 

Shoulders - have a look at my shoulder module.


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## sagejx (Apr 14, 2009)

Squats and deadlifts  are smth I don't do due to my knee,back problems


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## Built (Apr 14, 2009)

What kind of back and knee problems do you have?


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## sagejx (Apr 15, 2009)

I might have _juvenile rheumatism_ and some low-back problem.To be honest I haven't seen a doc. 'cus it's not that bad,yet.But I will soon


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## Built (Apr 15, 2009)

Get your thyroid checked while you're there. Have him check for Hashimoto's.


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## sagejx (Apr 15, 2009)

I did a blood test a few weeks ago and everything was fine


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## lucifuge (Apr 15, 2009)

Here's one I like:

Pull:
Rack pulls or Deadlifts: 3 x 3-6
Bent over Rows: 3 x 4-6
Weighted Chins: 2-3 x 4-6
Close Grip seated rows: 2-3 x 4-6
Barbell Curls: 2 x 4-6

Push:
Bench Press: 3 x 4-6
Incline Bench: 3 x 4-6
Military Press: 2-3 x 4-6
Weighted Dips: 2 x 4-6
Close Grip Bench : 2 x 4-6

Legs :
Squats: 3 x 4-6
Single Leg Extension: 2 x 4-6
Stiff Leg Deadlift: 2-3 x 4-6
Leg Curl: 3 x 4-6
Standing Calf Raise: 2-3 x 4-6

Squats and Deads (done correctly) will actually help most lower back pain in my experience.


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## sagejx (Apr 15, 2009)

I'm currently doing this nr of sets/reps:

*Chest*  9 sets
Barbell Bench Press- 3sets 8reps
Pec Deck-3 sets 10reps
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press- 3sets 8 reps
*Triceps* 6 sets
Seated Overhead Dumbbell Triceps Extension - 3sets 6reps
Triceps Pushdown - 3 sets 6 reps
*Shoulders’* 9 sets
Dumbbell Shoulder Press - 3sets 6 reps
Seated Bent Over Rear Delt Raise - 3 sets 8 reps
Side Lateral Raise - 3 sets 8 reps
*Back* 9 sets
Wide-Grip Lat Pulldown - 3 sets 8 reps
Straight-Arm Pulldown - 3 sets 10 reps
Elevated Cable Rows - 3 sets 8 reps
*Biceps* 6 sets
Dumbbell Hammer Curls- 3 sets 6 reps
Close-Grip EZ Bar Curl - 3 sets 6 reps
*Legs* 9 sets
Leg Extensions - 3 sets 8 reps
Leg Press- 3 sets 12 reps
Leg curl(face down)- 3 sets 8 reps

Is it ok?


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## T_man (Apr 15, 2009)

too much for triceps imo. They get hit when doing both shoulders and chest. I would only do one iso, if any, and it would be either be skullcrushers or even better close grip bench, which will build them like a mother******.
Also for shoulders I would substitute one of those iso's for a compound movement like cleans, arnold presses or something. But if you find iso is building them for you then it's all good.

But the legs. No they're not okay. No squats/deadlifts/lunges in there and only iso. If you do squats and deadlifts your whole body, not just your legs, will explode. A friend of mine once told me to watch him as he did squats in just a pair of shorts (i know it sounds gay) but, you could see almost every muscle in his body tense while doing it. It was rediculous, his calves, hams, (couldn't see his glutes, but you know they're worked), quads, abs, lower back, upper back, delts and traps where all fully tensed. See how much of a power move it is, it helps alot!


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## Built (Apr 15, 2009)

T_man said:


> (i know it sounds gay)



No, him reaming you up the ass sounds gay. 

(Not that there's anything wrong with that!)  


> but, you could see almost every muscle in his body tense while doing it. It was ridiculous, his calves, hams, (couldn't see his glutes, but you know they're worked), quads, abs, lower back, upper back, delts and traps where all fully tensed. See how much of a power move it is, it helps alot!


What a wonderful thing your friend did in showing you that. 

I get asked all the time how I train my abs. I tell them "squats, chinups, sprints..."


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## Built (Apr 15, 2009)

lucifuge said:


> Here's one I like:
> Squats and Deads (done correctly) will actually help most lower back pain in my experience.





sagejx said:


> I'm currently doing this nr of sets/reps:
> 
> *Legs* 9 sets
> Leg Extensions - 3 sets 8 reps
> ...





T_man said:


> But the legs. No they're not okay. No squats/deadlifts/lunges in there and only iso.



Leg press can be harder on your back than squats or deads. Leg extensions aren't a movement you should go heavy on and leg curls are at best a pumping/depletion movement. 

Maybe ask P-Funk if he can offer suggestions for leg training with your potential limitations.


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## sagejx (Apr 15, 2009)

It hurts even when squatting with no weight at all 

Tho doing the leg press doesn't hurt!

What do you guys think about HIT? I've read this article and it's quite interesting


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## Derricks (Apr 15, 2009)

I personally don't like splits such as that but it seems that your almost doing too much. Try to break it down to more simple excersizes


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## sagejx (Apr 25, 2009)

hey dudes! I am a bit bored of my workouts and giving full body workouts a try seems like a good idea!

_*As you well know I train my back/legs  with machines._

- sets/reps for each muscle group?
-rest periods?

Here's a plan I found:

day 1: Chest, shoulders, back, biceps, triceps, abs, legs
day 2: Legs, back, abs, shoulders, chest, biceps, triceps)
day 3: Back, chest, legs, triceps, biceps, shoulders, abs

Back - 4 sets
Elevated Cable Rows : 2 sets 12 reps
Lat pulldown: 2 sets 12 reps
Chest- 4 sets
Barbell Bench Press: 2 sets 12 reps
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press: 2 sets 10 reps
Shoulders 5 sets
Seated Military Press: 2 sets 8 reps
Side Lateral Raise : 2 sets 8 reps
Shrugs: 1 set 12 reps
Biceps 3 sets
Dumbbell Hammer Curls: 2 sets 8 reps
EZ Bar Curl: 1 set 12 reps
Triceps 3 sets
Triceps Pushdown : 2 sets 8 reps
Seated Overhead Dumbbell Triceps Extension: 1 set 12 reps
Legs 5 sets
Leg press: 1 set 15 reps
Leg curls: 2 sets 10 reps
Leg Extensions : 2 sets 12 reps
*Abs*
leg raises: 2 sets to failure


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## sagejx (Apr 25, 2009)

oh and rest periods:

10 sec. between sets
30 sec. between exercises

alright?


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## sagejx (Apr 26, 2009)

I'm open to new hardcore full body routines!


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## T_man (Apr 26, 2009)

If you're doing 2 exercises per body part only do 1 set 3x a week. Your CNS will be fried after the first day. And you might get too much DOMS to carry out an effective workout two days later. I've tried one of those splits and you have to be really careful not to go to failure as your CNS will just cut out.

Anyways the best routine I would advise for you is the third one you mentioned in your OP:

_"I wouldn't advise full body workouts unless you're really experienced. 
Mon: chest+triceps+shoulders
wed: legs+abs
fri: back+biceps+traps"_

But still, you need to get away from those leg machines! and only do one exercise & set for bi's/tri's


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## DIVINITUS (Apr 26, 2009)

Gazhole said:


> I wouldnt discount the benefits a full body split can do for weight loss and work capacity.
> 
> But other than that i agree with highpockets and the last split is the only one i would really consider.
> 
> ...



I have a question here as my current split looks like the one people are picking for the OP.  Mon/upper Push Wed/Lower Fri/upper Pull.  Your answer above confuses me a bit...specifically number 2.  I do 8 excersizes for my upper push or pull, but the problem I have is my Wed workout is squats, leg presses and dead lifts and abs.  I can't do leg extentions of any kind due to knee surgery so what else can i do?  I play hoops 2x a week, but i clearly don't match your requirement for an equal number of upper and lower body excersizes...is my current split way off as a result?


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## Gazhole (Apr 26, 2009)

DIVINITUS said:


> I have a question here as my current split looks like the one people are picking for the OP.  Mon/upper Push Wed/Lower Fri/upper Pull.  Your answer above confuses me a bit...specifically number 2.  I do 8 excersizes for my upper push or pull, but the problem I have is my Wed workout is squats, leg presses and dead lifts and abs.  I can't do leg extentions of any kind due to knee surgery so what else can i do?  I play hoops 2x a week, but i clearly don't match your requirement for an equal number of upper and lower body excersizes...is my current split way off as a result?



Number 2 could be a bit misleading, what it really means is the same amount of work rather than exercises.

For example, if in total for upper body you're doing say...12 sets a week over 6 exercises, you should do that amount of work for the lower body too. Whether thats 6 exercises (2 sets each), or 3 exercises (4 sets each) thats fine.

But obviously, working around an injury takes a lot of care so never do more than you can handle. I don't know the nature, or severity of the injury.

A balance is very important, though.

What are you doing for your program at the moment? Have you tried other ham/posterior chain exercises such as hyperextensions?


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## DIVINITUS (Apr 26, 2009)

Gazhole said:


> Number 2 could be a bit misleading, what it really means is the same amount of work rather than exercises.
> 
> For example, if in total for upper body you're doing say...12 sets a week over 6 exercises, you should do that amount of work for the lower body too. Whether thats 6 exercises (2 sets each), or 3 exercises (4 sets each) thats fine.
> 
> ...



Well, without my notebook in front of me, my split is close to this:

Mon: (Upper Push)

Flat Bench 4x 4-7
Incline Bench 3x 4-7
DB Shoulder Press 3x 4-7
DB Tricep "Roll up"  3x 4-7 (don't know how else to explain this excersize...very good for tri's, at least for me)
Tricep cable pushdowns (I do these laying flat, so I guess it's "pushups") 3x 4-7
Weighted dips 3x 4-7
Sometimes I follow this with a quick superset of cable fly's/reverse cable fly's (to hit the rear delt)

Wed: (Lower)

BB Squat 4x 4-7
Leg Press 4x 4-7
Deadlift 4x 4-7
Abs...weighted decline crunches, hanging leg lifts, etc.

Fri: Upper Pull

T-Bar Rows 4x 4-7
Seated Rows 4x 4-7
Lat Pulldowns 4x 4-7
DB Bent over flys 3x 4-7
BB shrugs 3x 5-10
BB Curls 3x 4-7
Sometimes I will also throw in some standing cable curls (the type where it looks like you are basically standing and flexing like Mr. Universe...lol) at the end.

Like I said, I play ball 2x a week too, and if not, might jog 2 miles or so on Tue and Thur, if the weather is nice.  i am noticing some good gains and really loving the new split, let me know if I should be tweaking it.  I am shooting for strength and wouldn't mind trimming a wee bit of fat in the process as I am clearly over 10% body fat now.  My diet is pretty good, probably a bit on the lean side for overall mass, but I am eating close to if not 3000 cals a day and always consume at least 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight.  I am 6' and currently weigh 217.

Let me know if you need more info, sorry for thread jacking and thanks for any input...


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## Built (Apr 26, 2009)

Leg extensions suck anyway. I only ever do the top third of the movement, if I do them at all, and with a light weight - seems to fix a minor knee tracking problem I have, but my doc told me to do 'em and it seemed to work. I don't recommend them to anyone for any other purpose. 

Can you do split squats or walking lunges? Or pistols?

What else do you do for hams - you doing good mornings or glute ham raises at all? 

Re diet - you can read the link in my sig for some ideas, that's where the leaning out will happen. 

Maybe carb/calorie cycle. It's an easy and kinda brainless way to cut back. Basically just drop your carbs back on the non-training days, maybe increase protein a bit to kill appetite.


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## DIVINITUS (Apr 26, 2009)

Built said:


> Leg extensions suck anyway. I only ever do the top third of the movement, if I do them at all, and with a light weight - seems to fix a minor knee tracking problem I have, but my doc told me to do 'em and it seemed to work. I don't recommend them to anyone for any other purpose.
> 
> Can you do split squats or walking lunges? Or pistols?
> 
> ...



Hey thanks alot for the info Built...so should I add something like the goodmornings in on that middle day or maybe swap them in for something like the leg presses?  And I will check out your diet info aswell...I'm not doing something right because I do feel like I should be leaner than i am and I have been following many of the diet guidlines put forth on this site, think it's time to finally start writing everything down...turned 30 this year so there's no room for slacking! lol


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## Plataeu (Apr 28, 2009)

sagejx said:


> Hey!I'm 17 years old,about 18% bf and wanna get down to about 10%,with min. mass loss.
> I've been training for almost 8 months and I've lost quite a lot of weight,the last layers of fat shall be terminated! Unfortunately I can only train 3 times/week now,so I have to design a good split! Here are the exercises I will be performing and the possible splits;please rate 'em and tell me which one is the "best".
> 
> *The exercises*
> ...



The first one.

Chest / Biceps
Back / Triceps
Legs / Shoulders

Good set up.


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## Built (Apr 28, 2009)

Try this for exercise selection:
Chest/Biceps
5x5 heavy barbell press
3x8 low incline dumbbell press
3x12 pec deck or cable crossovers
5x5 standing alternating dumbbell curls
3 supersets of 8 reps each:
- dumbbell preacher curls
- low incline dumbbell curls

Back/Triceps
5x5 heavy rows
5x5 weighted chins, shoulder width or narrower
3x8 one-arm dumbbell rows
5x5 weighted dips
3x8 close grip bench

Legs/Shoulders
5x5 heavy deads
5x5 below parallel heavy barbell squats
3 sets of walking lunges
5x5 push presss or millies
3x8 olympic barbell corner press

My .02


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## T_man (Apr 29, 2009)

Gazhole said:


> Number 2 could be a bit misleading, what it really means is the same amount of work rather than exercises.
> 
> For example, if in total for upper body you're doing say...12 sets a week over 6 exercises, you should do that amount of work for the lower body too. Whether thats 6 exercises (2 sets each), or 3 exercises (4 sets each) thats fine.
> 
> ...



Just a question considering doing an even amount of upper body/lower body.
If he's doing a upper push/leg/upper pull routine I really don't see how he can do the same for upper and lower.


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## Gazhole (Apr 29, 2009)

T_man said:


> Just a question considering doing an even amount of upper body/lower body.
> If he's doing a upper push/leg/upper pull routine I really don't see how he can do the same for upper and lower.



Why not?

Push - Bench Press, Overhead Press, Dips.
Legs - Squats, Deadlifts, Lunges, Single Leg RDLs, Hyperextensions, Calve Raises.
Pull - Pullups, Rows, Face Pulls.

For example.

Admittedly thats a lot of volume for leg day, but that's an inherent flaw in that particular split, and should be taken into consideration when choosing a split.

Balance between antagonistic muscle groups is more important than a split, so if a mammoth leg session isnt achievable choose a different split rather than open yourself up for muscular imbalances, lol.

Upper Push/Lower Pull/Upper Pull/Lower Push

Is a split i prefer for this reason.


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## T_man (Apr 29, 2009)

It's alot for one session though isnt it? Considering Squats, DL & Lunges are the most taxing exercises out there.
For this particular split I don't think its wise to do that many, just do alternating quad/hams, but yea i prefer the upper push/ham dom/upper pull/quad dom sort of split


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## Plataeu (May 2, 2009)

Built said:


> Back/Triceps
> 5x5 heavy rows
> *5x5 weighted chins*, shoulder width or narrower
> 3x8 one-arm dumbbell rows
> ...



If I'm not mistaken, chins are primary biceps, secondary lats. Did you mean pullups? Pullups are overhand, chins are underhand from what I've always understood.


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## Built (May 2, 2009)

I feel 'em in my lats and my bis. Do 'em whichever way you feel 'em.


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## Plataeu (May 2, 2009)

But pullups (overhand) due to the position of the hands would naturally target the back of the body more, although the chins do incorporate lat stimulus, not as much as a pullup. Plus, if you're pushing in the vertical plane, the opposing force (pull) would be good.


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## Built (May 2, 2009)

Cool. Do 'em that way. I do 'em both ways, just depends how I feel that day.


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## Plataeu (May 2, 2009)

Don't get me wrong, I do both exercises too, but I normally do chins as a first exercise - 1 set until failure on my bicep day, I do pullups on my Back / Triceps day. Both are good movements, but if I had to choose one, it would be pullups.


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## Built (May 2, 2009)

I don't do any of my training to failure.  And I hardly ever even bother to train biceps, much less have an arm-day.  I'm too lazy for that LOL!


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## Plataeu (May 2, 2009)

I've never put a full "arm" day in as in one day dedicated to biceps and triceps, simply because I feel for example if I train my biceps and build up lactic acid in them, then my triceps won't work as efficiently as they would when they're fresh. So I usually prefer to do a Chest / Biceps; Back / Triceps. Two exercises for my arms is roughly all I do.


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## Built (May 2, 2009)

Chest and bis; back and tris is good. You get the push pull thing going.


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## gymforall (May 2, 2009)

the normal bodybuilders routine is 

back/bi
chest/tri
shoulders/ legs

I like your last routine.........

But I would add so,e ,ore imtense workout if you want to loose weight.


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## Built (May 2, 2009)

gymforall said:


> the normal bodybuilders routine is
> 
> back/bi
> chest/tri
> ...


Back and bis really suck on the same day, don't you find? 

And it's not the workout that gets the weight off - that part's diet. The workout is there to retain muscle while he diets off the weight.


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## sagejx (May 3, 2009)

Built: thanks for the routine!

Hm would it work if I did these exercises instead?

*Bi:* barbell curls 5x5
               hammer curls 3x8
*Back[I can do 2,3 chins then I'm on the floor,literally]*:lat pulldown 5x5
barbell bent over rows 3x12
Straight-Arm Pulldown 5x5
*Tri:[yes,i suck at doing dips]* 
Seated Overhead Dumbbell Triceps Extension 3x8
Triceps Pushdown 5x5
*Shoulders*  barbell shoulders press 5x5
Side Lateral Raise 3x8
Seated Bent Over Rear Delt Raise 3x8

Thanks


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## Built (May 3, 2009)

Bis - sure thing. 
Back - try self-assisted chins. Set a bench a bit behind where you stand, so you can self-assist to "up" with your toes, but lower unassisted, or just stabilizing with your toes on the way down. WAY better than lat pull downs. Use a slow count for the negatives. Eventually you'll be able to do full sets of chins.  That's how I taught myself to do chins. Took me three years (okay, and dropping 30-40 lbs helped LOL!) but I was 38 and obese when I started. 

Try close grips for the 5x5, pushdowns for the 3x8. Try one-armed lat pulldowns, they're interesting. I really prefer them to ordinary lat pulldowns. 

One-arm dumbbell rows are a very underappreciated movement - my husband literally built his back doing them, and he does weighted chins, too. He's forty-two and unassisted, and he cranks out 3x8 sets of weighted chins with a forty-five strapped onto a belt, and one-arm dumbbell rows with 120lb dumbbells. If he can do it, so can you. Maybe not tomorrow, but still. 

OH - start with the 5x5 stuff; 3x8 comes after the heavy compounds. If you want to do a third, do 2x12 for a pump at the end. Read Thibaudeau's "three ways to get big" for more on this sets and reps combo. I reference it in Baby Got Back, near the top of the article. 

5x5 barbell shoulder press is fine, but trust me on the Olympic bar corner presses - they're awesome, you will love what they do and how they feel. This is another Thibaudeau movement. There's a link to it in my shoulder module on my blog as well. 
(You can use the rear delt raises as a shoulder warmup if you like. Face pulls work well for this purpose also)


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## sagejx (May 3, 2009)

Great stuff!!Thanks


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## Built (May 3, 2009)

Lemme know what you end up doing, and how it works out for you.


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## nkira (May 3, 2009)

I do those & they are AMAZING!! Much much better than regular shoulder press movement. I am also very happy with Builts BGB routine. I started noticing improvement in just few days after I started with BGB + Shoulder Module.





Built said:


> 5x5 barbell shoulder press is fine, but trust me on the Olympic bar corner presses - they're awesome, you will love what they do and how they feel.


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## Plataeu (May 3, 2009)

gymforall said:


> the normal bodybuilders routine is
> 
> back/bi
> chest/tri
> ...



I don't like that kind of set up, personally.

For one, biceps have a bump in them after doing pull movements, so therefore they aren't training as efficiently as they would fresh like on a chest  / bicep day.

Another thing is, muscle groups don't need seven days rest in between sessions to repair, they need anywhere from 32-72 hours depended upon factors (protein, water, etc).


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## DIVINITUS (May 4, 2009)

Gazhole said:


> Why not?
> 
> Push - Bench Press, Overhead Press, Dips.
> Legs - Squats, Deadlifts, Lunges, Single Leg RDLs, Hyperextensions, Calve Raises.
> ...


Is it me or is the above split a little light on upper body work?  I mean, I don't do that much in one lower body day, but I don't think my body wouldn't be pushed enough doing only 3 pushes/pulls on their respective day.  thoughts?


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## P-funk (May 4, 2009)

DIVINITUS said:


> Is it me or is the above split a little light on upper body work?  I mean, I don't do that much in one lower body day, but I don't think my body wouldn't be pushed enough doing only 3 pushes/pulls on their respective day.  thoughts?



A list of exercises does not dictate volume.  So, I have no idea what you mean.

Patrick


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## Gazhole (May 4, 2009)

DIVINITUS said:


> Is it me or is the above split a little light on upper body work?  I mean, I don't do that much in one lower body day, but I don't think my body wouldn't be pushed enough doing only 3 pushes/pulls on their respective day.  thoughts?



Well, theres less volume in each upper session and more frequency compared to the leg work.

If you find each session too easy, work harder rather than longer. Put everything you have into each set, either by making sure you get the fullest range of motion possible, you control the weight with far more focus than you usually would, or increase the weight a little if all else fails.

The key phrase is "stimulate not annihilate" which lately is something i've really come to discover true. Most people, including myself in the past, do far too much. They absolutely kill themselves in the gym each session, and set out to destroy their muscles, and end up doing just that.

The body is using all it's resources to repair rather than improve, and gains aren't as good as they could be.

Push/Legs/Pull isn't a great split, and the volume will largely not depend on the exercises.

3 Movements doesn't sound like a hard session, untill you find out you're doing 6-8 sets on each. In comparison, you may only be doing 3 sets on each leg movement.

I was the same as you, but since ive decreased QUANTITY and focused on QUALITY i seem to be acheiving a lot more in the gym.


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## DIVINITUS (May 4, 2009)

P-funk said:


> A list of exercises does not dictate volume.  So, I have no idea what you mean.
> 
> Patrick



I was going on the assumption of 3-4 sets per...not 6-8 as is apparently the case.


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## DIVINITUS (May 4, 2009)

Gazhole said:


> Well, theres less volume in each upper session and more frequency compared to the leg work.
> 
> If you find each session too easy, work harder rather than longer. Put everything you have into each set, either by making sure you get the fullest range of motion possible, you control the weight with far more focus than you usually would, or increase the weight a little if all else fails.
> 
> ...



Well, you've essentially done the same thing haven't you?  3 exercises with more sets amounts to similar workload as a few more exercises with less sets, isn't it?  I might do more exercises, but I don't do 6-8 sets of each one, half of that actually...


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## DIVINITUS (May 4, 2009)

Gazhole said:


> Well, theres less volume in each upper session and more frequency compared to the leg work.
> 
> If you find each session too easy, work harder rather than longer. Put everything you have into each set, either by making sure you get the fullest range of motion possible, you control the weight with far more focus than you usually would, or increase the weight a little if all else fails.
> 
> ...



Actually, if you don't mind, what do you think is a good 3 day split?  I am bound by 3 days in the gym a week because of schedule, like my split now, but will change it up in weeks or so.


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## Gazhole (May 5, 2009)

DIVINITUS said:


> Well, you've essentially done the same thing haven't you?  3 exercises with more sets amounts to similar workload as a few more exercises with less sets, isn't it?  I might do more exercises, but I don't do 6-8 sets of each one, half of that actually...



Well, depends how you set it up. The workouts on my last program look like:

Exercise 1 - 6x3
Exercise 2 - 4x7
Exercise 3 - 3x14

=13 Sets at varying intensity.


As opposed to:

Exercise 1 - 3x10
Exercise 2 - 3x10
Exercise 3 - 3x10
Exercise 4 - 3x10
Exercise 5 - 3x10
Exercise 6 - 3x10

= 18 sets at the same intensity.


I find that when you put more exercises in, not only are the latter exercises usually inferior (simply because there arent a limitless number of good exercises), but you're spending longer in the gym just because you have to set up new equipment and all that where you didnt really have to.


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## Gazhole (May 5, 2009)

DIVINITUS said:


> Actually, if you don't mind, what do you think is a good 3 day split?  I am bound by 3 days in the gym a week because of schedule, like my split now, but will change it up in weeks or so.



My favourite split is:

Upper Pull
Lower Push
Upper Push
Lower Pull

Its a 4 day split, but you can perform it 3x a week. Just cycle through them. This automatically opens itself up for a form of periodization where you assign a different rep range to mon/wed/fri because you'll be doing different workouts on those days every week, which is why i like it. If im stuck for a program idea i'll do this because it basically sets itself up.


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## DIVINITUS (May 5, 2009)

Lol...I'm officially confused!  I will look into this for my next routine though.  I am open to switching things up now much more than I ever was.


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## P-funk (May 5, 2009)

DIVINITUS said:


> Lol...I'm officially confused!  I will look into this for my next routine though.  I am open to switching things up now much more than I ever was.



Don't be confused.  It is simple, "push something, pull something, and do something for your legs."

Cover those three bases every time you go to the gym and you will be on your way.

patrick


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## DIVINITUS (May 5, 2009)

Gotcha...I will check this out.  Seems almost like a mix of what I was doing for my last routine and what I'm doing now, which is the Upper Push, Legs, Upper Pull on Mon, Wed, Fri respectively.  I like it so far, but it doesn't seem to have too many fans around here.  I'm just keeping my eyes open for any splits that I can comfortably fit into a Mon/Wed/Fri schedule.


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