# Stuck for 5 months - no weight loss -HELP!



## Ginger1961 (Apr 17, 2010)

So I have been on this quest, like everyone else I suppose, to be in the best shape I can possibly get myself in.  I'm extremely disciplined.  I do not have any issues eating clean or completing my workouts but for some ungodly reason I cannot get any further.  I have gone from 147 lbs to about 125 lbs in two years.  (I'm 41 by the way and 5' 3" tall).    That's how long I have been lifting weights.  I know that I have gained muscle and lost fat along the way so my fat loss is probably way more the 22 lbs considering the scale loss.  I have seen changes in my body but not in 5 months.  I still have quite a bit of belly fat.  I do the tape measure as well.  No losses.  I just don't get it.  I'm wondering if maybe some of you veterans out there might be kind enough to offer some suggestions before I go completely bonkers!!! This is a summary of what i'm doing:

Cardio 6 x per week - typically first thing in the morning on empty stomache 35 minutes (spinning or running) - heart rate usually between 148-158 

Weight training 3-4 times per week - usually I rotate between upper body and lower body with a day off in between.  I do abs every day.

Nutrition 

I eat 5-6 times a day usually around 1400 calories a day.  I do have the odd glass of red wine with dinner.  

Typical day goes something like this

2 eggs and 3 egg white scramble with cracked pepper. 1/3 cut oatmeal dry - cooked with dash of cinnamon and half small apple. 

mid morning snack - yogurt and berries 

Lunch - 1 whole grain wrap with chicken grilled (3-4 oz.) - veggies with hummus

afternoon snack -  raw veggies - walnuts - whole grain of some sort - maybe 1/2 english muffin all natural peanutbutter

dinner - grilled meat 5 oz chicken/fish salad - sweet potato or rice and cooked veggies

I also drink 2-3 litres of water a day.

That's pretty much everything I think.  Any advice that anybody could offer, would be so much appreciated.  Thank you again.


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## ceazur (Apr 17, 2010)

1400 cals and that strict of dieting/lifting/cardio and still a plateau? Usually I would be typing " drop the calories " but that just doesn't seem healthy to go any lower. I would say that HIIT would probably come into play a little. How about changing the workout routine completely? Targeting different muscles different days different reps sets intensity. EVERYTHING. EVen try changing the diet around. Although ppl are going to disagree with me, I also am losing weights and I know you need good fats yadda yadda yadda but I stopped eating nut butter just to better satisfy my mind that im doing all i can to lose it. I also would suggest if your up for it a low to no carb diet. THey work, weight loss is generally cals in/cals burned but I know several ppl including myself who have success without carbs. ITs harder because it takes away convenience of different foods that make the day easier but its mind over matter. HEres some links: Hope I helped and others will come, just wait. And stay strong! Nothing taste as good as looking good!!

HIIT Cardio Training
Getting Started on a Low Carb Diet


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 17, 2010)

Thanks Ceazur,  

I have done at one time or another during the last few months everything you have suggested.  I know that some people are probably going to say, No Way.  But, I have.  I keep a journal of everything I eat, everytime I workout - I even record how much sleep I've had.  Yep, Type A personality.  To a fault at times.  I tried carb cycling per Tom Venuto's articles that I'm like a sponge reading.  I've tried calorie cycling.  I usually try it for a couple weeks then go back to my regualar way of eating.  I end up gaining weight sometimes.  Not much but 3 pounds is a max and then I toss it.  Ah let's see.  The spinning and the running are performed on the HIIT premise.   Each track in the spinning routine is about 5 minutes long.  5 tracks in total.  Inside each track are 3 phases or intensity.  I also do the same with my running.  Including sprints up hill etc. etc.  I even tried adding a second cardio in the evening but a steady state cardio thinking it may help.  NOTHING!  I will take a week sometimes and not do either spinning or running and do a tae bo type class or kick boxing.  It's like my body is set to remain where it is come hell or highwater.  Friends of mine have competed in competitions locally.  I've gone to them for their advice and their advice is what helped me lose up to this point.  They are at a loss.  It's not that I have a lot to lose but I just hate that I've come this far.  It's like doing something 90% of the way and someone putting up a roadblock and saying "sorry that's far enough".  I'll do whatever I'm told to do.  The people that know me say they've never seen anyone follow instructions to the letter like I do.  I don't know anything else to try to be honest. I've even done the "cheat day" thing.  Where once a week have what you like.  Well I'd go up a pound or two but then take it off again within a day or so but never get down lower than 125.  I'm only a size 2 but i have a real issue with my tummy.  It's got visible fat that is not pretty to look at.  Looks almost like cellulite even.  If that was gone, I probably wouldn't be changing anything.  UGH!  I think I'm at the end of my rope.


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## ceazur (Apr 17, 2010)

no your not, your going to beat this. Have you tried dropping every single carb? I mean 20grams each day for a week, 10 grams daily the next week then try to drop to 5grams or lower a day. If you have the discipline you say then you could do it and im almost sure you could thin it out. And cheat days are for the weak. I would run every single day no matter what. YOu have to push yourself harder and further. Go lower on squats and get 1 more rep, do crunches for 10 extra minutes. RUn an extra quarter mile. while running and feeling weak, remember what your doing it for and that 2 minutes after you stop the pain will be gone. YOu have to want it!


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 17, 2010)

I can't say I've done a full on no carb diet for years.  That's how I initially dropped weight after pregnancy.  I was up to 195 pounds a little over 10 years ago. I can't even believe that when I type it.  I did Atkins and droped 55 pounds in about 5 or 6 months.  The weight fell off like water.  I'm talking 9 lbs in 9 days and it just kept going.  I don't ever recall hitting a plateau during that time.  I was told by trainers that it was a no no for me.  They say I'm doing too much exercise and it will hurt my body.  I know I can do it.  I've done it before.  Are you talking full on ketosis as well.  As in buy the strips and make sure I'm in the deepest purple possible.  I can do that!  Do I keep up the same cardio and weight lifting routine as well?  How many cals am I shooting for?  Throw it at me and I'll do it.  I am so glad I found this board.  I just needed someone to tell me I could do it and how to get there.  Most people keep saying that I shoud be happy with how I look.  I get the old comments like "you're 41 and look like you're 30, you should be happy with what you have now"....bullsh*t.  I don't care how old I am.  If I put in the time and discipline, I should be able to walk down a beach with a bikini on and not have to worry about fat on my belly.  PERIOD.

Thank you so much.


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## kyoun1e (Apr 17, 2010)

From reading your responses and getting a feel for your level of determination, I'm going to guess it's been a while since you've had a diet break. If that's the case...bad, bad, bad.

If you've been banging away at this for 5 consecutive months your body may be hating you. See leptin threads. Eating at maintenance for 2-3 weeks to reset everything and then starting again could be the best thing to do.

Also, that seems like way too much cardio. No diet break + all that cardio = results stall...and worse...muscle loss.

KY


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 17, 2010)

Kyoun1e

I just checked my journal and it was about 2months ago that I took a "diet break".  Put myself up to 1700-1800 cals a day for about 10 days or so.  I gained a couple pounds (2-3) once I returned back to my regular scheduled program  I droped them.  I have to say it was some work to get that many calories in without eating junk.  I wasn't sure on the amount of cardio I should be doing.  The last 10 pounds I lost I did it by working out 6 days a week.  Three days cardio and three days weight training and never together.  Took me about three months to take those ten pounds off and that was last fall.  Which takes me to now.  That's when I started tweaking.  Everything I read said cut your cals, increase your cardio, up your weight training.  Did it all.  So should I take a couple days break and then maybe start the low carb diet as suggested by ceazur?


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## Built (Apr 17, 2010)

Ginger, would you post up your calories and grams of protein carb and fat?

Also, you are 5'3" and weigh 125 now, right? 

Describe your weight training. What is your routine, rep range, lifts, and weight of those lifts?


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 17, 2010)

A typical day is usually about 80 -90 g of carbs; 160 g of protein; 50-60 grams of fat.  Usually about 1400 cals per day.

I usually do a higher rep lower weight for my training.   

Leg day usually consists of - squats - Usually about 70 lbs on the bar - I'll do three sometimes four sets with about 12 reps full range.  Then I'll do lower weight Usually around 50 - 60 lbs in the lower end of the squat range.  As low as I can get.  I'll add a few pounds and go for mid range.  I'll do them in various leg positions (width).

Lunges - lunges are done weighted with a bar lower weights - maybe 40 lbs - 3 sets about 10 reps.  Varying again in ranges from high to low.

Lunges done hold a plate again.  3-4 sets with 10-12 reps

Lunges off a step holding plates.  3 sets 15 reps

Straight leg deadlifts - 30 pounds 

Upper body - I'll do chest and back I'll vary between push ups and bench press in varying positions on the bench.  Incline/decline/flat 50 pounds on the bar max.  I have a shoulder injury so I can't pushto hard on the upper.

Biceps/triceps/Shoulders - I'll post again with that information.


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 17, 2010)

Shoulders - I do a range of different exercises and vary my weight.  I'll do split raises with free weights 10-12 lbs each - again usually 4 sets with 10-15 reps in each set; pull ups with a bar - typically 30-35 lbs same #reps and sets.  Overhead presses while standing with just slightly less weight than pull -ups.  Again, as I said earlier I have to watch it with the weight training.  I was in a car accident a number of years back.  Hurt my shoulder pretty badly, broke a wrist and blew out my SI joint in my left hip.  Rotated anterior a couple of mm.  It still pops out ever now and then.  Sounds worse than it actually is.  
Any suggestions or advice, I'm game.

Biceps are typically curls full range, bottom half, upper half - 4 sets 15 reps varying in speed with each set. 

Triceps - over head extensions with 20 pound plate - dips - dips with plate on lap, tricep push-ups - tricep presses - 40 pounds on the bar usually 4 sets 12 reps.  

This is all just a sample and what i've done this week.  But I change the routine quite often.  

I've also been known to take the odd barbell class. They call it group power and it is a all over body training class an hour long with lighter weights. I think I answered everything you asked.  Not sure if this makes a difference in your assessment but my measurements are 36.5 - 26.5- 36.5

I do pilates a couple times a week as well.  For nothing else but to stetch out the muscles i'm beating up.

Thanks a bunch guys.
G


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 17, 2010)

and yes I am 125 and 5' 3.5"  to be exact...just want to make sure I get everything out there.


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## Built (Apr 17, 2010)

Okay, well, 1400 is only just over 11 calories per pound, which is a little low for you (I maintain on about 15 x my weight). Protein and fat look good though, I'm happy to see you don't drop the fat down too low. 

Why only light weight with all those reps - it's a pretty miserable way to cut. Why not lift heavy in low reps for this?


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## gtbmed (Apr 17, 2010)

High volume lifting, cardio, and a caloric deficit.  Can anyone say cortisol?


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 17, 2010)

Cortisol = stress hormone, which is indicative of belly fat, yes?  bit of an equation! So back off a bit on cardio?  Reduce reps and higher weight? Increase the carbs a bit?


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## sassy69 (Apr 17, 2010)

Also curious as to what your bodyfat is?


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## Built (Apr 17, 2010)

Ginger1961 said:


> Cortisol = stress hormone, which is indicative of belly fat, yes?  bit of an equation! So back off a bit on cardio?  Reduce reps and higher weight? Increase the carbs a bit?



Successful cutting is heavy low-rep, low-volume training plus diet. 

Can you post up some pix?


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## sassy69 (Apr 18, 2010)

One small thing I noticed is you said you do abs every day - two things about "abs" - it is a muscle group just like every other muscle group - and normally we train any muscle, giving a day or two for it to recover before training it again. Also note that "abs" are covered by a lot of the core exercises (e.g. the functionally correct 'full body' stuff like squats, DLs, etc.) so in a sense you are sort of overtraining your abs. In fact, a lot of training can actually make you thicker - because you are building that particular set of muscles. 

The second thing is that "abs are made in the kitchen" - i.e. to "get abs" its more about dropping the bodyfat that often tends to sit on top of the actual muscle, and not building the muscle itself.

So just for the purpose of what you perceive as "belly fat", all the ab work could conceivably be contributing to a thicker look instead of leaner.

And on a completely different note, women, in particular, have a lot of trouble w/ bodyfat in certain areas, wherever it tends to have a greater concentration of fat cells, due to estrogen, and also whatever is your genetic tendency. So just plain old estrogen may be a contributing factor.

And a final thought is to not get hung up on the scale - it sounds like even though you're trying different things, if you see anything more than a couple pounds change on the scale, you freak out & go back to your usual protocol. FWIW, I can go up or down 5-8 lb of water over the course of a day - from morning to night as well as "that time of the month". Those changes are water weight and in the big picture, are incredibly variable and have nothing to do w/ "fat". I'd suggest that if you want to try a change, to just stick w/ it for at least 3 weeks - as that's how long it generally takes for any consistent change in your protocol to "show" an effect in your body. Of more concern I think is changing your body composition than the weight - this is why I asked in a previous post about your bodyfat. The scale only measures the sum total of your bone, lean muscle mass, bodyfat and water. It isn't really telling you all that much about your body composition - and this is why I'm suggesting to even just throw out the scale. Go by how your clothes fit or get a 7-9 point skin fold bodyfat test on a regular interval to watch for relative changes in bodyfat (its not literally accurate as a measure of bodyfat but it gives you a decent measure of relative change & trends in change to show you the change in body composition over time).


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 18, 2010)

Okay well this feedback is great!  I'll post a pic or two a little later on today as soon as I figure out my camera.  I'm pretty sure it is def fat on the tummy.  It's not just that I'm thinker, I'm jiggly.  I'll def take your advice on heavy low volume, low rep training.  Can you tell me what the best form of cutting would be?  Is low carb okay, or just keep an eye on the calories.  To be honest, I've often though and my doctor has mentioned from time to time that she thinks I may have a sensitivity to carbs and has thrown out Insulin Resistant a time or two.  I do notice some pretty nasty lows if I'm not paying really close attention to what I'm eating.  The few months I was on Atkins I had no issues with the lows and as I said earlier my body responded really well to it. I really am not sure what my body fat percentage is.  The small area in Canada that I live doesnt' have a lot to offer as far as this stuff goes.  There are not too many places that I can go to have it done but I'll make a call or two tomorrow.  

Thanks again


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## gtbmed (Apr 18, 2010)

You'll always have to "keep an eye on the calories" when you're cutting.  It's unavoidable.

But a low-carb diet is normally a good way to curb hunger.  If this type of diet has worked for you in the past then I don't think there's any problem with trying it again.

The key is to monitor your calories and your weight.  Your training should be short, simple, and heavy.


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 18, 2010)

What about cardio while cutting? A friend of mine told me that once before a competition her trainer had her do nothing but walk on an incline (treadmill) for an entire week while she followed a low carb form of dieting. She said she barely broke a sweat but lost 4lbs of fat that week.


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## Built (Apr 18, 2010)

A little bit of cardio on a cut won't destroy you. Walking is a good one because it doesn't stimulate appetite - in fact, it can help kill it.

But you're best thinking that exercise burns zero calories. For the deficit, look to your diet. 

To drop weight, eat less than you require to maintain your weight. 
To maintain muscle, eat enough protein and lift heavy things in low-rep, compound lifts  a few times a week. (squats, deads, chins, cleans, bench).
Any guesses what happens to your body if you drop weight while retaining muscle?


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 18, 2010)

Lose body fat??? Was that a trick question?


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## Built (Apr 18, 2010)

No trick - just not always all that obvious. 

Most folks think the strategy is to burn off bodyfat. But at the low levels, as you become progressively leaner, you may need to rethink this. The body tries to protect itself, yanno, from the famine you're trying to escape (all that cardio while starving...) - it tries to drop muscle and conserve bodyfat, to reduce the rate of expenditure and conserve resources. 

So you change the strategy. 

Starve off the weight. Take steps to retain the muscle. With no other options, the body grudgingly drops fat.


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## sassy69 (Apr 18, 2010)

Ginger1961 said:


> What about cardio while cutting? A friend of mine told me that once before a competition her trainer had her do nothing but walk on an incline (treadmill) for an entire week while she followed a low carb form of dieting. She said she barely broke a sweat but lost 4lbs of fat that week.





One comment about trying to follow what some competitor friend of your said they did before competition is to understand that the goal of competition prep is QUITE different than cutting to maintain. Competition is all about dialing in slowly & w/ some extreme methods (including water manipulation, carb manipulation and tweaking of the looking a certain way on competition day AND THEN EXPECT TO REBOUND AFTER THAT DAY IS OVER. So I'd suggest you don't get excited about whatever selected part of this competitor's prep protocol you hear about - you probably didn't get ALL the details in context. 

On another topic, I'm curious if you've ever looked into any food allergies (e.g. allergy to gluten / wheat?).


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 18, 2010)

No, I never have been tested for allergies.  Like I said earlier, the only thing that was brought to my attention by my doctor and one "girl specialist" was IR - Insulin Resistant.  When I was my heaviest at 195,  I was still exercising and eating a relatively healthy diet.  My cycles were crazy.  Sometimes not having any girl time for 6 month stretches and then after a battery of tests, mostly processes of elimination, the specialist and my doctor came up with the theory of IR.  Said why don't you try this new fangled thing that's back out there and cut out the carbs.  At that point I was willing to try anything.  The results were crazy.  Everything returned to normal.  Like absolute clockwork and the weight fell off with little to no effort.  Mind you, that only took me so far. I sat at about 140 lbs or so for years but then two years ago I decided okay that's just not enough.  I can do better than this.  Started weight training and consistant cardio training and watching what I ate.  I am one of those very few people who honestly love love love working out and eating right.  I don't feel deprived because it makes me feel good.  My friend told me that I absolutely had to include some carbs or I just was not going to be able to build any muscle.  She was right.  I started building and lost fat and scale weight.  Took that last ten off but have been sitting where I am for a very long time. That is until I hit the dreaded plateau and now it just maddens me.  All this effort with no reward makes Ginger a frustrated woman, if you know what I mean.  I do not expect to look like the fitness competitor on stage.  I think I'm probably past that.  I just don't want the ugly mid-section I have.  That's my goal.  I'm realistic.  Get rid of that and tighent areas up and I'm a happy camper.  I keep trying to upload a pic but the system is telling me that the pic exeeds the size for the forum.  I'll try to change it a bit.  I read a quote once online that said the definition of madness is doing the same things over and over again but expecting different results.  I think that's me.  I need a change and am so ready for it.  I just turned my scale over to my bf.  Told him not to give it back to me for three weeks.  His response "yeah if I give it back to you at all".  Kinda says a lot about my plight.


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 18, 2010)

Sorry,I've been trying everything to copy up a pic or two but the resolution and size of pics on my camera is too big for the site to handle.  If you want to shoot me off an email address to send it through, I can do that.  I'm so not good with this stuff...


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 18, 2010)

Holy Hannah - I think I managed to get one up here.  What a mission.  This is not a pic from today but it is exactly what I look like give or take.  The only thing I could get to upload was a vacation pic but at least it gives you an eyeball of the grewsome tummy region.  Pardon the beer in my hand but I was on vacation haha!  That was the second last "diet break" I took in the fall.


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## Built (Apr 18, 2010)

Honey, you're TINY! You just need some muscle on you. 

Stop trying to drop any more weight. Dropping more weight will not produce the look you desire. Let's fix up your training a bit and gradually creep the calories up so you can get a smidge more muscle on you and harden up, okay?

Are you willing to give your training an overhaul and agree to stop trying to lose for a bit? I'm not talking a full-on bulk - rather, a moratorium  on losing. 

This okay by you?


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm game for whatever you think but I guess I'm a little suprised you don't think I need to lose anymore. I think I am my own worst enemy 

Tell me where to start then. I have my own gym at home so I have access to whatever I need. No machines though. I have my own spinning bike as well but I guess I won't be needing that.


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## Built (Apr 19, 2010)

I want you to start lifting a lot heavier than you have been. 

What's the heaviest below-parallel squat you can do for say, five reps?


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm sitting here trying to give an honest answer. The truth would be that I don't know.  I've never really tried to do the heaviest weight I possibly can.  I'm thinking I can probably get 90 lbs somewhere in that vicinity.


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## sassy69 (Apr 19, 2010)

Built said:


> Honey, you're TINY! You just need some muscle on you.
> 
> Stop trying to drop any more weight. Dropping more weight will not produce the look you desire. Let's fix up your training a bit and gradually creep the calories up so you can get a smidge more muscle on you and harden up, okay?
> 
> ...



This is why I spoke about stop looking at the scale and focus on your BODY COMPOSITION - At the start of a contest prep in 2005, I dropped 8% bodyfat and 2 lbs. Obviously my LOOK changed a lot even the scale didn't. You're at the lower limit of weight IMO, for your height -so you can change your look by increasing your muscle mass - more muscle always makes whatever amount of fat you have look better. If you just continue to focus on "losing weight" you'll end up skinnyfat.


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 19, 2010)

Fair enough.  Obviously, you all know what you're talking about.  I did take the plunge and put myself out there (picture and all)! Ugh.  So I am damn sure going to do what I'm told I should do.  I don't think I have a friggin' clue what I'm doing.  This is intimidating shit!


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## Marat (Apr 19, 2010)

It can all be overwhelming in the beginning but you are in excellent hands with Built and Sassy. Time will bring clarity to the process and soon enough the process will be very comfortably integrated into your lifestyle.


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 19, 2010)

Tonight I'm going to do an experiment with the squat weight.  See how much I can handle.  At the very least I need a reference point.


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## maseco63 (Apr 19, 2010)

The cave man diet!  IT's a staple in any diet.  Eat sparingly 4-5 meals(more like snacks) followed By a huge dinner.  Keep it up for 2-3 days and return your diet to normal! "Plateu bye bye"

No spam


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## Built (Apr 19, 2010)

Ginger1961 said:


> Tonight I'm going to do an experiment with the squat weight.  See how much I can handle.  At the very least I need a reference point.



Cool. 

Ginger, read the link in my sig on "getting started" and do that workout three times a week for a few weeks, okay? I want you to build up all your lifts. 

Creep up the calories, an extra 100 daily this week, an extra 200 daily the week after. 

Does this sound like something you can do?


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 20, 2010)

*Built,*

*I read that article three days ago and thought this would be the workout you'd start me at.    Appears I'm a little stronger than I gave myself credit for.  Last night wasn't a workout night but just for the heck of it I tested myself and I managed to squat 105 lbs for five.  In all honesty I'm sure I can get more than that but I ended up doing it by myself and didn't want to get in trouble by going heavier without the benefit and security of someone being there with me.  I can def do everything you suggested.  I'll chart my progress and let you know how I'm doing.  I totally appreciate everything you and Sassy are both doing.  The feedback has been tremendous.  Can we pull that pic of me off this thread?   Looking at the pics of you ladies and a few others around here is making me realize how scrawny I actually am.*


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## Built (Apr 20, 2010)

It's gone. Keep it though; it'll be your "skinny bitch" pic. 

We all have these - or "fat bitch" pix. I wish I had taken GOOD starting pix from the beginning. 

105 is decent weight to squat below parallel! Good job!

Can you do chins?


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks. I think I can do better. Skinny bitch pic...I love it. Thank you for removing. 

I could do chins a few months back. I went through a little mini P90X phase and bastardized a few of those exercises. Chins were part of it. I have pretty decent strength in my lower half for a skinny girl I guess. (hahaha) Most of my friends won't work out with me because they say I work out like a boy. I also think I may have a little more muscle on me since that pic too. Especially my quads. That pic is about three months old. I started doing a few different leg workouts after vacation. I printed off that workout and taped it to my gym wall in LARGE PRINT...next to it is a calendar where I will record everything.

Oh and you wanna talk about fat bitch pics well i have them too...Imagine 70 lbs of blubber on that frame of mine...NASTY!


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## sassy69 (Apr 20, 2010)

You'll find as you increase your calls, you'll see dramatic increases in your strength as well. What we call a "slow, lean bulk" is one way to increase your cals, spur some growth but also keep the additional bodyfat to a min - its a slower process but it lets you maintain more of a lean look than feeling like you have to go out & buy "fat pants" to accomodate an "off season".


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 20, 2010)

There will be no fat pants here thank you very much.  I just had to buy all new stuff twice already inside a year because of the changes in my body.  I gave them all away!  There's a no return policy on the pants and the fat.  Far as it being a slow build.  I'm not in a hurry.   It took me two years to drop 25 lbs - patience I got.


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 20, 2010)

Just finished my first full workout.  Wow that was quick.  Stayed with the 105 for the squats for tonight.  Just until I get a feel for everything.  Bent over rows 60 lbs; deadlifted at 70 lbs and pressed 85 pounds; I gotta say holy shit that was fun.  
G


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## Built (Apr 20, 2010)

Ginger1961 said:


> I gotta say holy shit that was fun.
> G



... and so, the disease quickened...


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 21, 2010)

and then comes the cold hard pain of the day after...I can just imagine what tomorrow will bring. . . I got this!  

Hmm and another thing, I seem to be getting hungrier as the days go by since I've cut out the cardio.  Could this be my metabolism kicking in?  I'm never usually hungry.  I'm like the goddmaned cookie monster the last two days (without eating the cookies of course).


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## Built (Apr 21, 2010)

what macros are you running?


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 22, 2010)

Never mind.  I wasn't eating enough.  Actually did up the guzintas (added it all up) was under calorie for the three days.  Added some food and I'm good to go.  I think I'm in cardio withdrawal though.  One thing I have noticed is that I'm sleepin' like a friggin' log the last three / four nights.  I was having an awful time staying asleep very very restless, like I couldn't relax at all.  Waking up tired and dragging my ass to the spin bike.  Whomever suggested the cortisol, I think you were bang on because I'm noticing some major changes in my rest patterns.  I was damn close to burnout I think.


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 27, 2010)

Have a quick question for Built or Sassy...I've been training with the same weight last week and half but noticed today that I could go for 2-3 more reps in each set.  In what increments should I increase?  Doing great by the way!  I'm really diggin' this workout.  My bf swears in just a week and a half he's seeing changes in my POSTERIOR!  If nothing else, I'm feeling stronger; I'm not as tired and my body doesn't feel so damned beat up.  All goods in my book.    

Thanks a bunch
G


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## Built (Apr 27, 2010)

Increase the weight, drop the reps back to 5 and proceed back up to 8 reps. Then drop the reps and increase the weight again. The reward for going heavier is fewer reps. 

I'm so glad to hear this feedback from you - nice work!


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## sassy69 (Apr 27, 2010)

Built said:


> Increase the weight, drop the reps back to 5 and proceed back up to 8 reps. Then drop the reps and increase the weight again. The reward for going heavier is fewer reps.
> 
> I'm so glad to hear this feedback from you - nice work!



Same  as well - I find generally I can increase my reps a little every time I repeat the same session (e.g. muscle group). If you're working in the 5-8 rep range, consider 5 to be your goal for a 'heavier weight'. When you can hit 8, try going up the next weight increment. If you can do 10 that means you're a solid candidate for another weight increment or two. You can also vary things like the speed of the rep (i.e Time under Tension, or TUT) or work the negative more. I find this is something I can work with when I'm at the top ofa weight range that I can do, but start to lose form if I go up more, or if its an unsupporte lift (like a squat) that I'm not comfortable doign w/o a spotter. Another good example is pull ups - If I can't do a full ROM pull up, I can jump up and work the negative or go as high as I can (w/o a jump) and work the negative. Same w/ things like tricep press downs. People tend to lose form on these by snapping the rep to use momentum instead of a controlled rep - which is a recipe for tendonitis (I did it in around 1992 when I coudlnt' get past 1-arm 25 lb cable tri extensions .. started snapping the rep to get it, got the rep, then also got tendonitis .. which never really goes away) YOu can make the same weight that seems easy, burn like a mofo if you reduce the rep speed or hold it on the contraction longer.

I look at training in terms of the sum of volume (weight & reps) + intensity. Intensity can be varied by explosion or TUT. Volume can be varied by weight or rep. 

Also for unsupported lifts like squats where you top out and can't increase w/o a spotter, consider supported alternatives like smith machine, Power Squat, hack squat, etc. Or you can go to alternating leg options - e.g. Bulgarian split squat, standing lunges, alternating leg press. E.g. when I cap out at a weight I can no longer get my foot placement set up on leg press w/o blowign out a knee w/ no spotter, I will do alternating legs, w/ drop rep sets since its hard to get out of the seat & strip plates w/o killing your momentum. I'm up to 8 plates / 4 per side for 1 leg for drop sets of 6->4->2 reps. HUMBLING!  Regular bar deadlifts can be replaced w/ rack pulls as well as alternating Dumbbell exercises (e.g. 1 leg romanian DL).


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## Built (Apr 27, 2010)

^Excellent info.

Ginger, stick with keeping it simple for now. In about a month, come back and read this post - and apply the principals Sassy so generously outlined.


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 28, 2010)

Wow Sassy, that's crazy weight! Can't imagine on this 5'4" frame I could ever do that in my lifetime.  I knew I came to the right place with you and Built.  I'm learning lots about my body and how it responds as I go.  I'm also learning that once I get over the initial fear of loading up the bar for a squat that I'm a lot stronger than I gave myself credit for.  My heart was pounding so hard I could hear it but once I started pushing that weight back up to finish my first squat, the confidence sored.  I don't do any squats without a spotter.  Because I work out in my home gym, IMHO it would be stupid for me to risk getting in trouble alone.   I'll keep tweaking this workout for sure.  One thing about my bf, he pushes me beyond.  If he thinks i'm not getting low enough in the squat, next one will be lower...He'll sometimes put his hand out and say when your ass makes it to my hand push back up.  Although I think there may be an alternate motive there.  I guess I'll let him have his fun.  He's a huge supporter.  He's very happy I've found this site.  I'm so not frustrated anymore.  I have not been on that scale since I gave it to him.  Although I think I'll be checkin 'er out soon.  I'm curious.

Thank you to the both of you.  Hopefully it won't be too long and I'll be able to show you a picture with some results.


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## Built (Apr 28, 2010)

Hey, good job - you sound stoked!

PS I've rarely trained with a partner, and I have never squatted with a spotter - and still, I've managed to get my squat up to 205 for a triple (okay, twice ever, but it happened!). 

Keep the weight to a number you know you can squat. There is no need to push for failure. 

In your home gym, does your squat rack have safety bars/pins?


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 28, 2010)

Nope it does not but it is on the list for Mr. to do for me.  He's working on a few things in there since the change up with my training.  Wasn't so much of a priority since I wasn't working with heavy weights before.  I think he likes sticking around a bit too because he's got this fear I'm going to hurt myself.  He'll get comfortable with it soon enough.  And yes I am stoked.  I've not been this excited about working out in a long long time.


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## sassy69 (Apr 28, 2010)

You are only limited by your mind.


NPC Lightweight FBB Jen Cowan:

Stats: 5'4", off-season wt: 130 lb, competition wt: 115 lb

An interview w/ her:

Jennifer Cowan - aka the Beast





YouTube Video












From a PL meet:

Jennifer Lynn Cowan Squat 407





YouTube Video











Jennifer Lynn Cowan Deadlift 407





YouTube Video












Apparently she rounded out that meet w/ a 187 lb bench for total of 1003!
(PLers measure themselves by weight class and the weight totals of their meet bench + dead + squat).

This competitor is also interesting in that she's a bodybuilder & a powerlifter - one of the biggest on-going arguments is about who is stronger, a BB or a PLer because BBs are all about the look while PLers are (obviously) not always about the look, but definitely about the explosion.


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## Built (Apr 28, 2010)

All that heavy lifting sure made her look all manly and stuff!

Thanks for posting that Sassy. I'm using this next time a woman complains to me that she doesn't want to get "too big". 

I'll tell her to stick to the heavy compounds, like I always do. And I'll show her these vids.


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## Phineas (Apr 28, 2010)

maseco63 said:


> The cave man diet!  IT's a staple in any diet.  Eat sparingly 4-5 meals(more like snacks) followed By a huge dinner.  Keep it up for 2-3 days and return your diet to normal! "Plateu bye bye"
> 
> no spam


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## Ginger1961 (Apr 29, 2010)

That is truly incredible! I have been spreading the word to friends of mine about this workout.  Unfortunately, most of it falls on def ears.  My own sister, 2 years younger than me, is trying to knock off about 20 lbs.  She's def overweight and I swear to great jesus "thick as a brick" in the head.  She will not listen to a damn thing I try to tell her. She refuses to lift weights with the exception of her "dumb bell tree" - "dumb" being the operative word.  She thinks she's going to look all manly.  Told her she was crazy.  That it was impossible.  It's funny how so many women truly believe that's what will happen if they pick up a weight.  I suggested she increase her protein a bit because she was depending way too much on carbs for her daily cals.  Finally, I talked her into incorporating protein shakes and eating a lower carb protein bar. She sent me an email yesterday saying "I don't know how you can eat like this, I'd rather the taste of a Mars bar and cheeseburgers".  My response back to her was this and I quote   
"I always have my down days where diets and fitness are concerned BUT when I go out the door wearing a size 2 at age 41 and look younger than girls that are 10 years my junior that, my dear, tastes better than any Mars bar in my books".


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## Ginger1961 (May 12, 2010)

This is just a little update for Built and Sassy...i'm doing great following the routine. Getting in about 3-4 sessions a week and definitely feel myself getting stronger. I have gone up about 4 lbs in weight but i'm not panicked at all. Some of that is definitely muscle. I'm going by the tape measure and my eye. If I was gaining fat at all my waist is the first thing that expands. It's actually sitting around 26 " which is slightly smaller than when I started. How that happened I have no idea. I'm seeing most of the definition and growth in my upper body. Specifically my shoulders and neck. Makes sense I guess. I struggle the most with the shoulder presses and that seems to be wear i'm making the most visible gains. Oh and did I mention my butt...I love what the heavy below parallel squats and deadlifts are doing for that particular area. I think this program is amazing. Just goes to show that if you stick to the basics, it works.

G


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## Built (May 12, 2010)

Ginger, that's great. 

What macros are you running for your diet? The weight gain may simply be glycogen in your muscles, or perhaps some local inflammation if you're at all sore. It should drop off you fairly soon.


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## Ginger1961 (May 12, 2010)

It feels great too! I don't have my journal with me here at work but I did a quick calculation and I would venture that I'm in the vicinity of 250g of protein, 160 g of carbs and about 70-75 g of fat. I'm thinking my cals are up around 2400-2500. That's about a 1200 or so calorie increase. I hope that's okay. I am never hungry and I don't think i can possibly eat more food. If you think I need to add I'm going to have to do it through oils or something. 

Maybe I misunderstood your earlier posts but I though the idea of me increasing my cals was going to result in a small weight gain. I was prepared for it but am I to assume that this will drop off after some more time? I'm a little confused I think. 

PS - yes there are days where I'm quite sore.  Had to take ibuprofen.


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## Built (May 12, 2010)

Ginger1961 said:


> It feels great too! I don't have my journal with me here at work but I did a quick calculation and I would venture that I'm in the vicinity of 250g of protein, 160 g of carbs and about 70-75 g of fat. I'm thinking my cals are up around 2400-2500. That's about a 1200 or so calorie increase. I hope that's okay. I am never hungry and I don't think i can possibly eat more food. If you think I need to add I'm going to have to do it through oils or something.
> 
> Maybe I misunderstood your earlier posts but I though the idea of me increasing my cals was going to result in a small weight gain. I was prepared for it but am I to assume that this will drop off after some more time? I'm a little confused I think.
> 
> PS - yes there are days where I'm quite sore.  Had to take ibuprofen.



My bad - I forgot you were getting away from weight loss for a while. Now, at your size (you're around 130 lbs as I recall) your protein need not be this high. Usual guidelines are 1-1.5g per pound LBM (sometimes as high as 2g per pound LBM, particularly for very strenuous sports or for weight loss) and you are likely carrying around 100 lbs lbm, so aim your protein at around 150g per day, ballkparkish. Fats look good, cals are a bit high - you're going to gain too fast after dieting hard all this time. Maybe dial it back to about 2000 calories a day for a month, see what happens to your body as things settle down. 

Sound okay?


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## Ginger1961 (May 13, 2010)

You know that seems way more reasonable. I completely misunderstood or misread your emails back when you asked me to increase my cals. I was sitting around 1400 cals a day and I thought you suggested to increase my cals by 100 each day for a week and then increase by 200 cals for the second week. In my mind that translated to 700 cals a day the first week increase and then 200 cals in total for the second week which would be about 900 cals...increasing me to 2400 cals. Yes, your right I'm sitting around 129 right now. 1800 cals is relatively comfortable for me. A range I don't have to think about eating constantly. 2400 was a lot of work. So i'm dropping back today. What should I be looking at here as far as changes in my body and weight? I know I should not get hung up on the scale and I do want to fill out a little bit but at the end of the day I'd like to be sitting around 120-125 range and not have flabbiness on the tummy region. Like I said I am seeing definition and growth for sure. That part is quite exciting to me. I definitely don't want to go up in size in clothes and stuff as I just bought an entire wardrobe. I'm sorry if a seem a bit slow to catch on to this stuff. I'm trying.  One other question: in your post yesterday you mentioned that inflammation can cause a weight increase...how does that work?

G


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## Built (May 13, 2010)

I meant 1500 a day for a week, then 1600 a day for a week, etc. until you noticed weight gain. 

Pay attention to the scale. It will tell you what you need to know - women gain muscle so slowly, it won't show up very fast on the scale. You might, if you're lucky, gain a pound of muscle in a month while bulking. You're unlikely to gain even that much once you've been training for a while. If you put on five pounds in a month, you can pretty much count on at least four of those pounds being fat. 

Inflammation holds water. Water's heavy.


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## Ginger1961 (May 13, 2010)

Stupid on my part.  I should have known there was not a chance in hell you would tell me to increase cals that quickly.  Anyway, considering how much I was eating, it's a wonder I only gained 4 lbs.  Anyway, no big deal.  Shouldn't take too long to get rid of and let's face it, with how hard I was going at for so long, my body enjoyed the food. 

Off I go again.  Talk soon.


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## Ginger1961 (May 27, 2010)

Quick question.  I'm really struggling with some major water weight lately.  I noticed that I went up way more than I normally do during "girl time" and it doesn't seem like a lot of it came off afterwards.  I took those few pounds off relatively quickly from my post above - again must have been water - pulled back on the cals and within a few days gone.  Then came "tom" and of course back on it came.  I'm sitting around 128 but i'm as puffy as ol heck.  I'm drinking about 3 litres a day same as usual but I have to say, it's super uncomfortable.  I can tell from my rings on my hands and the feeling in my feet.  I really have not changed all that much in my diet and I don't eat salt or anything with a lot of sodium content.  So what gives?  Could this still be inflammation?  I thought by now things would have settled. Thanks for your input.


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## Built (May 27, 2010)

Double your water. Leave salt intake normal but double your water. 

It'll drop.

Meanwhile, are you on O.C.?


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## Ginger1961 (May 27, 2010)

Thanks Built - I will do that for sure.  What's O.C.?  Sorry, I'm not up on all the acronyms.  Another point of interest, I've been super super thirsty.  Increased my squat weight another 5 lbs too.   Can you tell I'm very pleased with myself?


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## Built (May 28, 2010)

Oral Contraceptives.


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## Ginger1961 (May 28, 2010)

Nope.  Nothing.


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## Ginger1961 (May 28, 2010)

Built - tried to send you a PM with a little more information that is too much info to plaster on the board but it wouldn't go through.  

G


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## Built (May 28, 2010)

Try again. PMs were full.


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## Ginger1961 (May 28, 2010)

Sent it.


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## sassy69 (May 28, 2010)

Built said:


> Oral Contraceptives.



OC = BC = Oral Contraceptives = Birth Control




Gotta love acronyms.


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## Ginger1961 (May 28, 2010)

And you know, I was sitting here for a good 20 minutes before I sent the response, defeated, because I couldn't figure it out.  I was thinking of every possibility, but not that.  I've never taken them in my life, so I guess this is why I wouldn't even go there.  You can't imagine the stuff I was coming up with to figure out OC.  Some how, my mind went to big paulie and little paulie.  LOL


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## Built (May 28, 2010)

Okay, good. OC do the Devil's work to a woman's body.


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## sassy69 (May 28, 2010)

From your PM, my mind went back to the question I asked in the first page of this thread about gluten allergies. I agree w/ Built to up your water - when I'm in contest prep I normally drink 2 gallons of water /day.  I don't know if you're consuming any wheat or gluten products - for shits & grins you might drop those if you are and see if it makes any difference. I know many people spend years wondering why they always have a little pooch of stomach bloat and occasionally have a  hard time clearing out. 

Another thought is if you're eating a lot of broccoli, cauliflower or similar leafy greens - Digestive Enzymes will help w/ digesting -- some people experience a lot of 'backing up' w/ lots of broccoli - broccoli and similar veggies have a sugar that we don't have a natural enzyme to digest, so a lot of it can end up causing discomfort.

And last thought is if you're getting enough fiber to keep stuff moving.

But start w/ the increase in water intake.


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## Ginger1961 (May 29, 2010)

Sassy,

I'm starting to lean that way myself (gluten allergy) - it could def explain why I do so well on Atkins.  I'm going to try it for a while and see what happens.  Can't hurt.  I'll keep the water going for sure.  There is a shop in my neighborhood that has a wide variety of gluten free products.  Actually, someone at work just mentioned a few days ago that they have a gluten free bread (gasp) that has only 40 calories in two slices.  One of the ladies from the local Y took the bread to a weight watchers meeting and they subsequently sent it off for testing.  Came back that the claims of the business were absolutely valid.  NO gluten and 40 cals per two slices.  I may check it out.  

I'm def getting enough fibre and I don't eat broccoli or cauliflower.  

Thanks for the input ladies.  You both rock!
G


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## Ginger1961 (Jun 1, 2010)

Built/Sassy
Help! My friggin' scale keeps creepin' up.  How far should I let this go?  I'm trying really hard not to freak out but I'm up to 131 now.  I've gained about 6.5 lbs.  I was 124.5 when I started.  Should I make an adjustment and if so what; or do I ride it out?  I'm sitting at about 1600 cals a day.  I cut back a bit last week just in case what I thought was water weight, was in fact fat.  I doubled my water like you suggested.  Saturday I cut out the gluten and I must say, I'm feeling pretty good from that.  My rings have loosened up on my hands but yet the scale is going up.  None of this is making any sense to me and I can't help but feel like I may be going backwards.


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## Built (Jun 1, 2010)

How long have you been at 1600 cals a day?


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## sassy69 (Jun 1, 2010)

BTW .. it sounds like its a good thing the water retention is getting under control!  Is it tracking pretty consistently w/ that time of the month or other factors? (For future reference...)


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## Ginger1961 (Jun 2, 2010)

Built,
I'm into my second week with 1600 cals.  FYI - I'm up another pound today 132.  Here's the fuckin' kicker.  I just took my measurements - Not one change up or down.  So if I've gone up 7.5 lbs where the hell is it?  

Sassy, 
The water weight went up during girl time but didn't come back off.  So I guess that was consistant.  Right now I'm mid-cycle.  Day 15.  I've heard that some women do gain as much mid-cycle as they do at the end with their periods.  I don't know maybe that could be it.  Jesus at this rate...I'll be up 5-7 lbs for three weeks out of the month.  Crap it sucks being a woman and dealing with all these variables.  

As far as the gluten issues go, I really think you were on to something there.  I completely forgot to mention the stomach issues I've had in the past.  I was on nexium off and on.  Almost daily I've dealt with heardburn and stomach acid issues but it was such a regular part of my life, I didn't view it as something of importance.  I guess almost like it was normal.  Anyway, I've not taken one antacid, nexium not a pain of an stomach ache since the last three days since I cut out the gluten and wheat.  

I was thinking about dropping the cardio again for a week, just walk, keep up my weight training, leave the cals at 1,600 or so and see what happens but I didn't want to change too many things.  Thoughts?  
Ginger


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## Ginger1961 (Jun 7, 2010)

Built / Sassy:

I think I have it under control.  I dialed my cals back to 1600, eased up on the cardio for 4 days then added some some outside running, alternating between sprinting and power walking at 4 minute intervals for 35 minutes and am back down the scale.  I'm sitting around 127 today.  No fluid issues at all.  I think I have to be really careful with my cals like you said Built because I've been restricting for so long.  I was also doing morning cardio on a spin bike for 35 minutes 6 days a week.  High intensity.  Heart rate was peaking at 165 -167.  At 42, I imagine I'm not far from maximum.  Most likely stressing my body.  So pulling back on cals and cardio seems to have me settled-I feel more like myself.  I was getting a little uncomfortable although I couldn't find the extra weight with a tape measure.  I've got to see if I can find somewhere that does body fat testing around here.  I'll keep in touch.
Ginger


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## Built (Jun 7, 2010)

Hey, sorry I missed your earlier post - I'm glad you're feeling like you have this under control now.


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## sassy69 (Jun 7, 2010)

Glad to hear - it takes a little bit of time for the right program to settle in - its hard when you're watching for it. ITs also ultra-frustrating when you're trying so hard.. and its actually too hard.  You can work your body hard, but to keep going you need to cycle it in driving phases and then recovery phases.  "Periodization"!


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## Phineas (Jun 7, 2010)

Built said:


> Try again. PMs were full.



Well aren't you Ms.Popular.


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