# Zimmerman Rescues Man From The Truck Crash



## [SIL] (Jul 22, 2013)




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## murf23 (Jul 22, 2013)

He really needs to stop trying to help people lol .


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## Little Wing (Jul 22, 2013)

wait for it


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## Watson (Jul 22, 2013)

was it this truck?


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## ctr10 (Jul 22, 2013)

I wonder if he had his trusty sidearm with him


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## DOMS (Jul 22, 2013)

YouTube quote:

Al Sharpton is going to march now, because he's going to say it's all a  publicity stunt. Zimmerman must of purposely turned over the truck  himself, then drove around the block, and then decided to help him.  Jesse Jackson is going to march, because﻿ he's going to say if the man  in the truck was black, Zimmerman would've never helped him.


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## Swiper (Jul 22, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> wait for it




Yep, the people he helped are black?


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## charley (Jul 22, 2013)

Zimperman to the rescue ..........


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## withoutrulers (Jul 22, 2013)

Maybe he'll start wearing a cape


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## murf23 (Jul 22, 2013)

Hard to believe he is hiding out in the same area close to where the shooting took place .


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## The Prototype (Jul 22, 2013)

murf23 said:


> Hard to believe he is hiding out in the same area close to where the shooting took place .



No shit. I figured they would ship him off somewhere. I think they're waiting to answer on federal charges and perhaps civil law suits. But for his safety you would think he would be advised to keep a low key especially if he remained in the area.


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## dieseljimmy (Jul 22, 2013)

You couldnt write this shit! 
I saw this earlier and thought it was a joke. Sometimes life is better than a movie


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## Little Wing (Jul 22, 2013)

Swiper said:


> Yep, the people he helped are black?



this. people asking what color the people he helped are. going to be really hard for him to get a break even when he does something good.


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## Little Wing (Jul 22, 2013)

kinda stupid of reporters to point out where he's hanging out.


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## Watson (Jul 22, 2013)

murf23 said:


> Hard to believe he is hiding out in the same area close to where the shooting took place .



well he gunned down a kid he "suspected" of doing something wrong, fuck knows i wouldnt go after him lmao


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## ROID (Jul 22, 2013)

Irony...


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## dieseljimmy (Jul 22, 2013)

ROID said:


> Irony...



Whats the opposite of irony....
Wrinkly


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## heavyiron (Jul 22, 2013)

My hero is now an even bigger hero.


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## [SIL] (Jul 23, 2013)




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## bio-chem (Jul 23, 2013)

wait, so he is a good guy after all? Don't tell LW.She is convinced he is the devil who is out to shoot innocents and rape babies. while kicking puppies and drowning kittens.


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## Little Wing (Jul 23, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> wait, so he is a good guy after all? Don't tell LW.She is convinced he is the devil who is out to shoot innocents and rape babies. while kicking puppies and drowning kittens.




no. i'm convinced a guy on a 911 tape can be heard saying, "he warned me he'd shoot him"


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## bio-chem (Jul 23, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> no. i'm convinced a guy on a 911 tape can be heard saying, "he warned me he'd shoot him"



So? Both of us have said much much worse things than that.


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## Little Wing (Jul 23, 2013)

and yet, neither of us has killed anyone.


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## bio-chem (Jul 23, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> and yet, neither of us has killed anyone.



neither of us has been in a situation like that either.


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## Little Wing (Jul 23, 2013)

well i know _i_ don't go out at night with a loaded gun stalking teenagers after warning my friends i'll shoot one so, no.


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## Little Wing (Jul 23, 2013)

everyone is wondering did he rescue whites. i'm wondering why high crime areas aren't seen as a failure of the police and criminal justice system.


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## bio-chem (Jul 23, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> well i know _i_ don't go out at night with a loaded gun stalking teenagers after warning my friends i'll shoot one so, no.



I have a CCW, and i regularly leave the house with a loaded gun. If my neighborhood recently had had a lot of break ins I would probably volunteer for the neighborhood watch as well. When it's night and you see someone 5'11" 160 lbs, teenager doesn't come to mind. You need to get over the teenager shit LW. He was 17 and if he would have slammed GZ's head in the concrete killing him (not an unheard of scenario) he could have been tried as an adult. So twist things however you want, but it's bogus and everyone can see that.


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## Little Wing (Jul 23, 2013)

it's bogus for anyone to be so sure either way that they are angry. trayvon had been 17 for 3 weeks. zimmerman said "late teens" on 911 call. he knew he was following a kid.


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## bio-chem (Jul 23, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> it's bogus for anyone to be so sure either way that they are angry. trayvon had been 17 for 3 weeks. zimmerman said "late teens" on 911 call. he knew he was following a kid.



As I have already pointed out. He could have been tried as an adult had things gone differently. He was making big boy decisions, and big boy decisions have big boy consequences. This is the real world and we play with real consequences here. you attack a man with a gun then putting your life on the line is your choice. Even if at 17 you are too stupid to realize it at the time.


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## hypo_glycemic (Jul 23, 2013)

Griffith said:


> was it this truck?



^^ funniest shit I've seen in a while   hahahahaha


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## HialeahChico305 (Jul 23, 2013)

DOMS said:


> YouTube quote:
> 
> Al Sharpton is going to march now, because he's going to say it's all a  publicity stunt. Zimmerman must of purposely turned over the truck  himself, then drove around the block, and then decided to help him.  Jesse Jackson is going to march, because﻿ he's going to say if the man  in the truck was black, Zimmerman would've never helped him.




Reminds me of Hancock


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## DOMS (Jul 23, 2013)

HialeahChico305 said:


> Reminds me of Hancock



That movies wasn't well received, but it is on of my guilty pleasures.


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## troubador (Jul 23, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> As I have already pointed out. He could have been tried as an adult had things gone differently. He was making big boy decisions, and big boy decisions have big boy consequences. This is the real world and we play with real consequences here. you attack a man with a gun then putting your life on the line is your choice. Even if at 17 you are too stupid to realize it at the time.



Quit being precise. I choose to think of Trayvon as a child. A baby really. You can think of gold tooth purple drank weed smoking jewelry thief Trayvon but I'll always think of sweet innocent newborn baby Trayvon.


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## maniclion (Jul 23, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> I have a CCW, and i regularly leave the house with a loaded gun. If my neighborhood recently had had a lot of break ins I would probably volunteer for the neighborhood watch as well. When it's night and you see someone 5'11" 160 lbs, teenager doesn't come to mind. You need to get over the teenager shit LW. He was 17 and if he would have slammed GZ's head in the concrete killing him (not an unheard of scenario) he could have been tried as an adult. So twist things however you want, but it's bogus and everyone can see that.



Had Trayvon killed Georgie wouldn't he be able to use stand your ground in his defense, I mean a grown man was stalking him as he walked home at night.  He was minding his own business when he sees this person staring him down, he takes off running in a new neighborhood, possibly forgot which way was home and panicked for his life and felt he had to confront George.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## dieseljimmy (Jul 23, 2013)

troubador said:


> Quit being precise. I choose to think of Trayvon as a child. A baby really. You can think of gold tooth purple drank weed smoking jewelry thief Trayvon but I'll always think of sweet innocent newborn baby Trayvon.


 8 pound 6 ounce newborn infant sweet baby jesus.


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## troubador (Jul 23, 2013)

maniclion said:


> He was minding his own business when he sees this person staring him down, he takes off running in a new neighborhood, possibly forgot which way was home and panicked for his life and felt he had to confront George.



Which was the wrong thing to do and that's why Zimmerman walked.


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## SFW (Jul 23, 2013)

> Had Trayvon killed Georgie wouldn't he be able to use stand your ground  in his defense, I mean a grown man was stalking him as he walked home at  night.  He was minding his own business when he sees this person  staring him down, he takes off running in a new neighborhood, possibly  forgot which way was home and panicked for his life and felt he had to  confront Georg




I have no idea why stand your ground is even on the table, the zimmerman defense team never used it as their defense. Also, blacks use this legal strategy 2 to 1 over whites in Florida.


Anyway, im glad George was able to help out society....twice.


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## bio-chem (Jul 23, 2013)

maniclion said:


> Had Trayvon killed Georgie wouldn't he be able to use stand your ground in his defense, I mean a grown man was stalking him as he walked home at night.  He was minding his own business when he sees this person staring him down, he takes off running in a new neighborhood, possibly forgot which way was home and panicked for his life and felt he had to confront George.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2



doesn't appear that *confronting* george qualifies for standing your ground. hmmmm. Confronting shows offense. How can he claim defense? By all accounts the attack happened when trayvon attacked george. Following someone on a street that they both have a right to doesn't mean trayvon could pull a 'stand your ground' defense. 

If Trayvon stops and asks George "why are you following me" the outcome is totally different in my opinion. Trayvon jumped George, George felt threatened and killed Trayvon in self defense. open and shut.


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## maniclion (Jul 23, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> doesn't appear that *confronting* george qualifies for standing your ground. hmmmm. Confronting shows offense. How can he claim defense? By all accounts the attack happened when trayvon attacked george. Following someone on a street that they both have a right to doesn't mean trayvon could pull a 'stand your ground' defense.
> 
> If Trayvon stops and asks George "why are you following me" the outcome is totally different in my opinion. Trayvon jumped George, George felt threatened and killed Trayvon in self defense. open and shut.



He gave chase when Martin started running, its in the 911 call.  George escalated everything by taking off after him.  I know if someone were to start chasing me after I saw them staring me down I'm going to be in a state of self preservation.  Thats my whole beef with this, I am all for people being able to carry weapons for self defense, what I want to see not happen is those people putting themselves into situations like this where they are going to have use those weapons.  When I took martial arts classes we were taught that the best self defense was to avoid confrontation.  George didn't do that, he is an irresponsible gun owner who thinks because he can carry its his duty to police his little world.  He had no right to pursue Martin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## Little Wing (Jul 23, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> As I have already pointed out. He could have been tried as an adult had things gone differently. He was making big boy decisions, and big boy decisions have big boy consequences. This is the real world and we play with real consequences here. you attack a man with a gun then putting your life on the line is your choice. Even if at 17 you are too stupid to realize it at the time.



you know for a FACT that Trayvon was the aggressor?


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## Little Wing (Jul 23, 2013)

maniclion said:


> He gave chase when Martin started running, its in the 911 call.  George escalated everything by taking off after him.  I know if someone were to start chasing me after I saw them staring me down I'm going to be in a state of self preservation.  Thats my whole beef with this, I am all for people being able to carry weapons for self defense, what I want to see not happen is those people putting themselves into situations like this where they are going to have use those weapons.  When I took martial arts classes we were taught that the best self defense was to avoid confrontation.  George didn't do that, he is an irresponsible gun owner who thinks because he can carry its his duty to police his little world.  He had no right to pursue Martin.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2



zimmerman had more than one opportunity also to diffuse the whole thing, and prevent any mischief or crime if that's what the boy was up to, simply by stating he was on neighborhood watch patrol or explain the area had had break ins. my opinion on why he didn't do this  is that he didn't want to deter crime or diffuse things, he wanted a "collar." 

to a lot of people a barking dog will scare away criminals but we aren't crazy enough to remove the dogs vocal cords then just lay in wait hoping to confront them with a gun. i think zimmerman's the latter type.


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## Little Wing (Jul 23, 2013)

George Zimmerman rescue family terrified they will become targets for hate mobs | Mail Online












looks like quite a large white man.


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## troubador (Jul 23, 2013)

maniclion said:


> the best self defense was to avoid confrontation.  George didn't do that



There's no evidence Zimmerman confronted Martin. There's no evidence Zimmerman kept following Martin after the call to the police.


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## Little Wing (Jul 23, 2013)

troubador said:


> There's no evidence Zimmerman confronted Martin. There's no evidence Zimmerman kept following Martin after the call to the police.



unless you are willing deaf to the audio on 911 call you can gather your own evidence in he said trayvon was running then you can hear zimmerman start running. 
George Zimmerman?s Statements To Sanford PD [Audio] | AxiomAmnesia.com Presents They Always Get Away: Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman Documents, Photos, Videos, Audio, and Articles


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## Little Wing (Jul 23, 2013)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw

the car n clubhouse were stationary positions he could have met the police there if he wasn't going to hunt for the kid.


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## Little Wing (Jul 23, 2013)

i seriously worry about the men here that think a teenager just past the hump of turning 17 is a huge threat. your kids are going to rule you. as a mom with a big teen that thinks he's a man sometime i assure you he's not yet any kind of force to be reckoned with. he's a pup. i think you all know full well that the adult males here wouldn't get easily beat down or beat to death by the teens here. or don't you?


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## troubador (Jul 23, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> unless you are willing deaf to the audio on 911 call you can gather your own evidence in he said trayvon was running then you can hear zimmerman start running.
> George Zimmerman?s Statements To Sanford PD [Audio] | AxiomAmnesia.com Presents They Always Get Away: Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman Documents, Photos, Videos, Audio, and Articles



I said after.


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## Little Wing (Jul 23, 2013)

if he didn't intent to hunt the boy he could have said to dispatcher tell them to meet me at car or club house... it seems pretty clear he didn't do that for a reason and i don't think it's because he was hunting wabbits.


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> you know for a FACT that Trayvon was the aggressor?



There has been no evidence shown to make me, or the 6 member jury whose job it was to look at all the evidence presented to say otherwise.


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw
> 
> the car n clubhouse were stationary positions he could have met the police there if he wasn't going to hunt for the kid.



Is there a reason you feel compelled to try and prosecute this guy on the interwebs after lawyers were unable to do so in a court to a jury of his peers?


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i seriously worry about the men here that think a teenager just past the hump of turning 17 is a huge threat. your kids are going to rule you. as a mom with a big teen that thinks he's a man sometime i assure you he's not yet any kind of force to be reckoned with. he's a pup. i think you all know full well that the adult males here wouldn't get easily beat down or beat to death by the teens here. or don't you?



pup or not Trayvon felt he could take George, or why else would he attack him? I'm sure your son is smart enough not to attack one of us. If he isn't then unfortunately he will have to deal with the very real consequences of the adult decisions he has made, regardless of him being exactly 6574 days old or not.


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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i seriously worry about the men here that think a teenager just past the hump of turning 17 is a huge threat.



No you don't. You're just grasping at straws since you can't argue within the context of the law.


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## DOMS (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i seriously worry about the men here that think a teenager just past the hump of turning 17 is a huge threat. your kids are going to rule you. as a mom with a big teen that thinks he's a man sometime i assure you he's not yet any kind of force to be reckoned with. he's a pup. i think you all know full well that the adult males here wouldn't get easily beat down or beat to death by the teens here. or don't you?



You're right. You're absolutely right. But for all of Zimmerman's faults, you have to give the man credit for carding the person he's about to shoot...


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

LW how far off the reservation do you have to be when you are the only one here at IM arguing your side of the case? Let me remind you we all hate, the government, don't trust the courts, and pretty much always expect the powers that be to get it wrong.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

troubador said:


> No you don't. You're just grasping at straws since you can't argue within the context of the law.



i would be ashamed of a male partner that was intimidated by my son. i'd break up with the wuss. that's not grasping at any straws. 

i think if the prosecution had presented a more competent case and the jury was actually sequestered things may have gone a lot different. also have to wonder since zimmerman's felony cleaning up daddy the ex judge _is_ a factor in reality... how bad anyone wanted this case won to begin with???


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> LW how far off the reservation do you have to be when you are the only one here at IM arguing your side of the case? Let me remind you we all hate, the government, don't trust the courts, and pretty much always expect the powers that be to get it wrong.



i'm not the only one arguing i'm just more tenacious. have you met maniclion? dale mabry? lots of opinions here that zimmerman is a criminal not a hero. i'm far from alone.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> pup or not Trayvon felt he could take George, or* why else would he attack him*? I'm sure your son is smart enough not to attack one of us. If he isn't then unfortunately he will have to deal with the very real consequences of the adult decisions he has made, regardless of him being exactly 6574 days old or not.



you do not know that he did. you only believe that to be so. i don't know either i only have strong suspicions. at least i am aware of that.


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i would be ashamed of a male partner that was intimidated by my son. i'd break up with the wuss. that's not grasping at any straws.
> 
> i think if the prosecution had presented a more competent case and the jury was actually sequestered things may have gone a lot different. also have to wonder since zimmerman's felony cleaning up daddy the ex judge _is_ a factor in reality... how bad anyone wanted this case won to begin with???


yup. this is certainly grasping at straws. Now you are second guessing (which is your right) the lawyers. I've yet to even see the law school trained commentators second guess the way you are.


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i'm not the only one arguing i'm just more tenacious. have you met maniclion? dale mabry? lots of opinions here that zimmerman is a criminal not a hero. i'm far from alone.



Both those guys are more middle of the road than you are. So again I ask, how far off the reservation have you gone?


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> you do not know that he did. you only believe that to be so. i don't know either i only have strong suspicions. at least i am aware of that.



Like yourself I've said I don't know what happened. I have said i've seen no evidence to lead me to believe otherwise. So I accept it as it is. There is nothing out there for evidence that shows zimmerman was able to catch trayvon started the altercation, and then shot him from close distance (forensics show the shot occurred from a few inches, corroborating zimmermans account). there is plenty to indicate zimmerman did not catch trayvon, and that trayvon attacked zimmerman. 

would zimmerman been in any danger, and had any scrapes to his face and head if he had caught up to and attacked trayvon? You yourself argue that trayvon was just a weak boy who would have stood no chance against the grown man zimmerman.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

and you have not pinpointed any dependencies in zimmerman's statements? not one?


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> Like yourself I've said I don't know what happened. I have said i've seen no evidence to lead me to believe otherwise. So I accept it as it is. There is nothing out there for evidence that shows zimmerman was able to catch trayvon started the altercation, and then shot him from close distance (forensics show the shot occurred from a few inches, corroborating zimmermans account). there is plenty to indicate zimmerman did not catch trayvon, and that trayvon attacked zimmerman.
> 
> would zimmerman been in any danger, and had any scrapes to his face and head if he had caught up to and attacked trayvon? You yourself argue that trayvon was just a weak boy who would have stood no chance against the grown man zimmerman.



in the written statement he says the boy punched him he fell back and trayvon got on top of him. in the reenactment he describes going forward six paces or so after he was punched... there are just several points where he's not believable. on 911 call he clearly does not make plan to meet officers at his car but in recorded statement he claims he did. a lot of fish to smell if you're just curious what the truth really is. he only had 3 streets to remember and is a nw captain and can't recall stree right next to his. i know every street here for blocks and haven't lived here half the time he's lived there. fish fish fish.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

trayvon punched zimmerman in the nose and the nose is all bloody. then trayvon tried to smother zimmerman but didn't get even the tiniest bit of blood on his hands??? fish.


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> in the written statement he says the boy punched him he fell back and trayvon got on top of him. in the reenactment he describes going forward six paces or so after he was punched... there are just several points where he's not believable. on 911 call he clearly does not make plan to meet officers at his car but in recorded statement he claims he did. a lot of fish to smell if you're just curious what the truth really is. he only had 3 streets to remember and is a nw captain and can't recall stree right next to his. i know every street here for blocks and haven't lived here half the time he's lived there. fish fish fish.


That's your evidence? I can't believe the prosecution wasn't able to convict


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> trayvon punched zimmerman in the nose and the nose is all bloody. then trayvon tried to smother zimmerman but didn't get even the tiniest bit of blood on his hands??? fish.



I kickbox, in 2 of my 3 fights i've bloodied the shit out of my opponent. In one fight I was covered in blood, one of my friends thought i was bleeding i was covered so bad. In the other not a drop on me. Your evidence doesn't hold up to real world experience. trayvon not having blood on him doesn't show shit.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

they called it right because there is absolutely huge reasonable doubt. there's also huge reasonable doubt as to  zimmerman being honest.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> I kickbox, in 2 of my 3 fights i've bloodied the shit out of my opponent. In one fight I was covered in blood, one of my friends thought i was bleeding i was covered so bad. In the other not a drop on me. Your evidence doesn't hold up to real world experience. trayvon not having blood on him doesn't show shit.



fish shit


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> fish shit



ok LW, that made me chuckle a little. out of my own personal experience i believe trayvon could have bloodied zimmermans nose and not had blood on his hands. just my own personal experience.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

it just seems gullible to give zimmerman as much benefit of the doubt, all things considered, that it takes to say he is _completely_ blameless. i think watching him during the trial it's pretty easy to sympathize with him but after 20 years of parenting you get a spidey sense for bullshit. we are not getting the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. a lot of white wash went on.


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> it just seems gullible to give zimmerman as much benefit of the doubt, all things considered, that it takes to say he is _completely_ blameless. i think watching him during the trial it's pretty easy to sympathize with him but after 20 years of parenting you get a spidey sense for bullshit. we are not getting the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. a lot of white wash went on.



Sure, there are many things that could of and should have gone differently. then a kid could have learned and hopefully matured from a situation like all the other 17 year old boys out there (myself included when i was that age doing dumb shit) ultimately I do not feel that zimmerman committed murder, or manslaughter however. unfortunately things didn't go that way. Things went to the worst possible scenario with both parties making mistakes along the way, and trayvon doesn't get to learn a lesson like the rest of us punk 17 year old kids do. hindsight is 20/20 and im sure zimmerman wishes he could do things differently. He still isn't a criminal in my book. At it's most basic points I do not have a problem with a guy carrying a gun, on neighborhood watch, and following someone he views as suspicious when his neighborhood has a string of recent break ins.


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## Dale Mabry (Jul 24, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> pup or not Trayvon felt he could take George,



Thought? In the absence of a weapon Zimmerman may be dead.  At which point Martin should have been convicted of manslaughter



Little Wing said:


> i'm not the only one arguing i'm just more tenacious. have you met maniclion? dale mabry? lots of opinions here that zimmerman is a criminal not a hero. i'm far from alone.



Since you dragged me into it I believe he is guilty of manslaughter.  How anyone can think someone who was getting punked out by a 17 year old who may have weighed 165 soaking wet is beyond me, though.  Is he a racist?  I doubt it.  Did he profile?  Probably, but I don't believe every scenario where profiling is used is racist.



bio-chem said:


> Sure, there are many things that could of and should have gone differently. then a kid could have learned and hopefully matured from a situation like all the other 17 year old boys out there (myself included when i was that age doing dumb shit) ultimately I do not feel that zimmerman committed murder, or manslaughter however. unfortunately things didn't go that way. Things went to the worst possible scenario with both parties making mistakes along the way, and trayvon doesn't get to learn a lesson like the rest of us punk 17 year old kids do. hindsight is 20/20 and im sure zimmerman wishes he could do things differently. He still isn't a criminal in my book. At it's most basic points I do not have a problem with a guy carrying a gun, on neighborhood watch, and following someone he views as suspicious when his neighborhood has a string of recent break ins.



I think that's the problem here.  I feel if Martin had killed Zimmerman there is absolutely no chance he would have gotten away with it.  That is the only place where I feel racism enters.  If the story is told to a jury that Martin was merely walking home with a bag of skittles and dude followed him at which point Martin beat the shit out of him and killed him, I feel he would have been convicted, and rightfully so.  In this situation, 2 people made multiple mistakes and only one paid for it, that's the tragedy.  Age, hip hop, none of that shit matters.  Just because you have the right to carry a weapon, and I believe people should have that right, I don't believe it should give you the attitude that you are a hero and that you should jump in to situations better handled by the police.  If you are getting mugged, fine, shoot your assailant.  But to chase after someone a police dispatcher tells you not to chase should make you liable.  If some slob was chasing me down and I didn't do anything wrong I absolutely wouldn't run, I would beat the living shit out of him and I don't believe that gives him the right to shoot me.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

Dale Mabry said:


> Thought? In the absence of a weapon Zimmerman may be dead.  At which point Martin should have been convicted of manslaughter
> 
> 
> 
> ...



the fbi said they don't think he is a racist just has a hero complex. other instances where a hero complex can be dangerous would be a firefighter setting a fire etc.


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Dale Mabry said:


> Thought? In the absence of a weapon Zimmerman may be dead.  At which point Martin should have been convicted of manslaughter
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The police dispatcher telling him not to follow doesn't mean anything to me really. That person is not in a position of authority. They are on the phone a long ways away from the situation and competely removed from what is really happening. I don't think they have an idea what call to make in that scenario. 
Here is the thing, I don't think this is a situation that Zimmerman pulls his gun unless he is being attacked. (in which he is justified)  If you or Martin decide to ask him "wtf are you following me for?" nothing happens other than maybe a heated conversation. Big deal. CCW holders are pretty good at not drawing their weapons and shooting people to start shit.


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> the fbi said they don't think he is a racist just has a hero complex. other instances where a hero complex can be dangerous would be a firefighter setting a fire etc.



Except the part where arson is a crime, and following someone on a road isn't.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> Except the part where arson is a crime, and following someone on a road isn't.



might not be a crime but in a world full of cannibal cops, dismemberment videos posted online, and women kept as sex prisoners for ten years etc a person could prove being followed made them reasonably afraid their life was in danger.


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> might not be a crime but in a world full of cannibal cops, dismemberment videos posted online, and women kept as sex prisoners for ten years etc a person could prove being followed made them reasonably afraid their life was in danger.



seems the law disagrees with you. you need more than "i was being followed" to attack someone.


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

When it all comes down to it nothing shown makes me believe that zimmerman actually caught martin. I do believe zimmerman did lose sight of martin, and turned back towards his car. At that point martin was safe, and could have just gone home. That is the turning point in my mind where the outcome of events leaves martin responsible for what happened to him. that moment is the turning point.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

i was being followed i ran away the next thing i knew he was behind me again. i would have reasonable fear of bodily harm and that's all i need. no one has to lay a finger on me. i do not need to have a scratch on me.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> When it all comes down to it nothing shown makes me believe that zimmerman actually caught martin. I do believe zimmerman did lose sight of martin, and turned back towards his car. At that point martin was safe, and could have just gone home. That is the turning point in my mind where the outcome of events leaves martin responsible for what happened to him. that moment is the turning point.



i agree to a point. why wouldn't zimmerman just say why he was following him or interested in his being a stranger there? wouldn't any rational person do that? and why would trayvon address zimmerman as "homie" a word that means male friend? zimmerman fed us a veritable sea of bullshit.


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i agree to a point. why wouldn't zimmerman just say why he was following him or interested in his being a stranger there? wouldn't any rational person do that? and why would trayvon address zimmerman as "homie" a word that means male friend? zimmerman fed us a veritable sea of bullshit.



bwahahhahha. Nick Diaz called a guy he just fought in an MMA cage, and then later picked a fight with at the hospital afterwards "homie". Homie doesn't mean squat. Trayvon also called him a "creepy craker" are you going to argue that was a term of endearment now?

I don't think there was a chance for zimmerman to have that conversation. At least i've not seen any evidence in the phone calls (either trayvon's, or zimmermans) to believe there was time for a conversation between the two to explain what each one was doing there.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

when trayvon asked do you have a problem zimmerman had the perfect opportunity to explain what his problem was. if you listen to all of zimmerman's accounts of what happened he added the homie after. 

You Got A Problem Homie? - YouTube


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## Dale Mabry (Jul 24, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> The police dispatcher telling him not to follow doesn't mean anything to me really. That person is not in a position of authority. They are on the phone a long ways away from the situation and competely removed from what is really happening. I don't think they have an idea what call to make in that scenario.
> Here is the thing, I don't think this is a situation that Zimmerman pulls his gun unless he is being attacked. (in which he is justified)  If you or Martin decide to ask him "wtf are you following me for?" nothing happens other than maybe a heated conversation. Big deal. CCW holders are pretty good at not drawing their weapons and shooting people to start shit.



I don't think he drew on him until he was on the ground.  I think the facts of the case show no one was in any immediate danger and had Zimmerman actually stood his ground, aka not went after him, we wouldn't be talking about this right now.  Removed from the situation or not, listening to the 911 prevents Martin from being killed which is where I think Zimmerman was being reckless.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

the police identified two opportunities zimmerman could have identified himself and diffused the situation.


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Dale Mabry said:


> I don't think he drew on him until he was on the ground.  I think the facts of the case show no one was in any immediate danger and had Zimmerman actually stood his ground, aka not went after him, we wouldn't be talking about this right now.  Removed from the situation or not, listening to the 911 prevents Martin from being killed which is where I think Zimmerman was being reckless.



This is not a stand your ground case. The defense never even had to mention stand your ground.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

did you hear the cop say they got an anonymous call contradicting zimmerman's account ? the caller said that zimmerman tried to detain trayvon? betting it was the, "he warned me he'd shoot him" jeremy from 911 call.


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> the police identified two opportunities zimmerman could have identified himself and diffused the situation.



there were plenty of things along the timeline that could have changed the outcome. from both parties. no one is denying this. while they were mistakes they weren't illegal. from a legality stand point I feel zimmerman should be a free man. as he is


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> did you hear the cop say they got an anonymous call contradicting zimmerman's account ? the caller said that zimmerman tried to detain trayvon? betting it was the, "he warned me he'd shoot him" jeremy from 911 call.



too bad this anonymous person didn't testify in court. how anonymous could it have been? if you call 911 and hang up they call you right back.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

many police stations utilize an anonymous tip line.


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> many police stations utilize an anonymous tip line.



I think you are kinda missing the point. My point being if you had seen the altercation clear enough that left a boy dead, and you could testify that zimmerman attempted to detain martin, then killed him, why wouldn't you do more than an "anonymous call'


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

because zimmerman is a scary man with a concealed carry permit and a judge daddy and you just saw him kill an unarmed kid. maybe  a lot of nutless wonders out there and a lot of people happy a black boy is dead. but why make the call in the first place if they didn't care? zimmerman supposedly has a temper... can't know for sure but i guess they had their reasons.


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> because zimmerman is a scary man with a concealed carry permit and a judge daddy and you just saw him kill an unarmed kid. maybe  a lot of nutless wonders out there and a lot of people happy a black boy is dead. but why make the call in the first place if they didn't care? zimmerman supposedly has a temper... can't know for sure but i guess they had their reasons.



exactly, a million different reasons. Including the fact it could just be a bogus call. it's a piece of evidence not to be even taken into consideration. interesting with more substance, but without it, worthless and irrelevant except to those who want to grab any wisp of something to convict a man in the court of public opinion when it couldn't be done in court


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## Dale Mabry (Jul 24, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> This is not a stand your ground case. The defense never even had to mention stand your ground.



Then how is the shooting justified?  Plain self defense?  How can it be self defense when Zimmerman initiated the encounter?  If that's the case Zimmerman is lucky Martin died, had he lived to tell the story I guarantee Zimmerman serves time.


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## DOMS (Jul 24, 2013)

Dale Mabry said:


> Then how is the shooting justified?  Plain self defense?  How can it be self defense when Zimmerman initiated the encounter?  If that's the case Zimmerman is lucky Martin died, had he lived to tell the story I guarantee Zimmerman serves time.



If someone is talking smack, there is no legal right to physically assault them. If someone attacks you, you do legally have the right to defend yourself.


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

Dale Mabry said:


> Then how is the shooting justified?  Plain self defense?  How can it be self defense when Zimmerman initiated the encounter?  If that's the case Zimmerman is lucky Martin died, had he lived to tell the story I guarantee Zimmerman serves time.



Following someone is not initiating the encounter. it's not illegal to follow someone. Had Martin lived to tell his side then the outcome of the trial might have been different. Martin might have said Zimmerman grabbed him, or got so close that he felt he had not other option. We don't know. What we know is that zimmerman said he lost him, and started to return to his car when he was jumped from martin from behind. Martin's friend the heavyset black girl who took the stand and was speaking to martin on the phone at the time of the encounter could not testify that the encounter happened any differently than zimmerman said. 

Remember, the cops who were there and saw zimmerman and martin believed zimmerman's story. After being brought in for questioning originally his story was still believed to be true. It wasn't till 6 weeks later he was even arrested. hmmmmm


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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i would be ashamed of a male partner that was intimidated by my son. i'd break up with the wuss. that's not grasping at any straws.



We know why you said it.


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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

Dale Mabry said:


> Then how is the shooting justified?  Plain self defense?  How can it be self defense when Zimmerman initiated the encounter?



There's no evidence that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation or provoked Martin into one. A really simple way to look at is, what illegal act did Zimmerman engage in before Martin punched him?


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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

DOMS said:


> If someone is talking smack, there is no legal right to physically assault them. If someone attacks you, you do legally have the right to defend yourself.



It's become clear people simply are unable differentiate between their disapproval of certain actions and the legality of them.


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## DOMS (Jul 24, 2013)

troubador said:


> It's become clear people simply are unable differentiate between their disapproval of certain actions and the legality of them.



They're often the same people that bitch and moan about how the government is taking away our right, but they want to take away more of our rights to make themselves feel better.


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## bio-chem (Jul 24, 2013)

troubador said:


> There's no evidence that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation or provoked Martin into one. A really simple way to look at is, what illegal act did Zimmerman engage in before Martin punched him?



Simple terms are sometimes the best. Well said


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

troubador said:


> It's become clear people simply are unable differentiate between their disapproval of certain actions and the legality of them.



Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

following doesn't appear to be so legal in this context. 

were you following him

yes
no
yes
no
yes
no
yes
no

[SIZE=-1] A  person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly *follows*, harasses, or  cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking[/SIZE]


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

zimmerman lied. repeatedly. is that simple enough?


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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
> 
> following doesn't appear to be so legal in this context.
> 
> ...



Zimmerman didn't repeatedly follow Martin.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

maybe he did maybe he didn't. the girl trayvon was on the phone with testified that trayvon lost him and then zimmerman was back. the statute says it doesn't matter that these items can occur in a short span of time.

[SIZE=-1]''Course of conduct'' means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short. malicious intent could be argued via the "these assholes, they always get away" comment. 
[/SIZE]
that it can't be proven doesn't mean it did not occur. honestly don't think zimmerman is done with the courtroom. there's still the nasty business of digitally raping a 6 year old.


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## DOMS (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> maybe he did maybe he didn't. the girl trayvon was on the phone with testified that trayvon lost him and then zimmerman was back. the statute says it doesn't matter that these items can occur in a short span of time.
> 
> [SIZE=-1]''Course of conduct'' means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short. malicious intent could be argued via the "these assholes, they always get away" comment. [/SIZE]



If only the prosecuting lawyers knew about these laws...


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

if only they had gone with what they could have reasonably nailed him on.


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## DOMS (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> if only they had gone with what they could have reasonably nailed him on.



The judge even through the man slaughter option at the end. Zimmerman still didn't get nailed for that, because...ya know..._reasonable doubt_. Even you talk about how we don't know all the facts, but still proclaim Zimmerman guilty. In a real court of law it's referred to as "reasonable doubt." Even then, a lawyer can still fall back on motive, which they also couldn't prove.


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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> [SIZE=-1]''Course of conduct'' means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short.
> [/SIZE]



You didn't cite anything that used the phrase "course of conduct".


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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> [SIZE=-1] malicious intent could be argued via the "these assholes, they always get away" comment.
> [/SIZE]



Not likely since Zimmerman was found to have acted in self defense in light of this evidence. There's nothing in that sentence that implies his intent to do injury.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

Stalking can also consist of ?_harassment_? rather than ?_following?_
 ?Harassment? is defined as a _?course of conduct directed at a  specific person which causes substantial emotional distress to that  person and serves no legitimate purpose.? 

_legitimate purpose isn't following someone after you concoct a reason. zimmerman lied when he said trayvon appeared on drugs ad said that there's something wrong with him. i know plenty of people that smoke weed & they don't stagger around or act wasted. you'd never know it till you saw the reds of their eyes. there are many blatant discrepancies on numerous audio tapes...


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

troubador said:


> Not likely since Zimmerman was found to have acted in self defense in light of this evidence. There's nothing in that sentence that implies his intent to do injury.



no, but there is in the statement of a witness heard on 911 tape saying, "he warned me he'd shoot him." whoever made the anonymous call... lets hope they grow a set.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

there's no evidence i took a shit this morning but i assure you, i did. 

anyone buying zimmerman's story 100 percent is willfully turning a blind eye to his content of character and what evidence there is that he's lied.


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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> no



Glad that's settled.


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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

This case has made me truly grateful in the principle of innocent until proven guilty.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

troubador said:


> Glad that's settled.



settled like if a guy asks his wife if shes screwing his best friend and she says no but i'm screwing your brothers.


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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> settled like if a guy asks his wife if shes screwing his best friend and she says no but i'm screwing your brothers.



Not malicious=not stalking.

Also, I think it's obvious your charge of stalking is ridiculous and I'm just indulging you. There's no evidence Zimmerman even engaged Martin much less stalk him.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

well i hope the next person he doesn't maliciously stalk in the night is a bit more of a formidable opponent than a gangly teen or a 6 year old little girl.


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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> well i hope the next person he doesn't maliciously stalk in the night is a bit more of a formidable opponent than a gangly teen or a 6 year old little girl.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

want me to hold you and calm your fears?


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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

Zimmerman passed lie detector test


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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> want me to hold you and calm your fears?


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

did you even read the article?

Ron Grenier,* a former FBI  agent and lie detector expert, said the voice stress analysis test  is  not as reliable as a polygraph test.* Also, he said, it's unclear what  the examiner meant by "confront." Further, such tests don't measure a  person's state of mind or fear at some other time, he added.

*"He may have convinced himself that he was in fear of his life, but whether or not he was is not definitive," Grenier said*.

Zimmerman's  responses would be more meaningful, he said, if he had been asked, "  'Did Trayvon Martin attack you and knock you to the ground?' Or 'Was  Trayvon Martin on top of you hitting you before you shot him?' "
Joe  Navarro, a former FBI agent who teaches interviewing techniques at  Saint Leo University,  agreed. "You have to ask precise questions," he  said. "You want to know at what point you feared for your life."


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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> want me to hold you and calm your fears?



Does that come with a happy ending?


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

honestly, if your daughter told you the guy down the street stuck his finger in her vagina would you wait till it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in court and not make any judgements on him if it couldn't be? would you so vehemently defend HIS innocence?


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

troubador said:


> Does that come with a happy ending?




yes, mine.


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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> did you even read the article?
> 
> Ron Grenier,* a former FBI  agent and lie detector expert, said the voice stress analysis test  is  not as reliable as a polygraph test.* Also, he said, it's unclear what  the examiner meant by "confront." Further, such tests don't measure a  person's state of mind or fear at some other time, he added.
> 
> ...



Yeah, it was none admissible but the fact that he took it and passed is somewhat interesting. It was kind of a shitty article.



> Zimmerman's responses would be more meaningful, he said, if he had been asked, " 'Did Trayvon Martin attack you and knock you to the ground?' Or 'Was Trayvon Martin on top of you hitting you before you shot him?'


Well they know Martin was on top of him hitting him before Z shot.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

if a guy did finger your daughter would you insist that didn't make him a bad guy? would you trust him? not worry if he carried a gun?


----------



## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)




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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> honestly, if your daughter told you the guy down the street stuck his finger in her vagina would you wait till it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in court and not make any judgements on him if it couldn't be? would you so vehemently defend HIS innocence?



Not likely.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

maybe i'm 100 percent wrong but doing daycare i have seen that doe eyed please believe me look so many times. without the blood but with same plea to buy they are a total bambi and not a little shit that did something naughty. looks to me that is one creepy ass cracker.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

assault victims usually just look beat to shit not like they are pardon the expression, trying to get away with murder.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55l2Dj6AeFY


have a look at the bushes trayvon supposedly jumped out of. so much is just ridiculous.


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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55l2Dj6AeFY
> 
> 
> have a look at the bushes trayvon supposedly jumped out of. so much is just ridiculous.



Yeah huge difference between jumping out of the bushes and coming from near some bushes.  Pretty damning evidence you got there.


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## Little Wing (Jul 24, 2013)

i'm thinking this happened on mulberry street.


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## maniclion (Jul 24, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55l2Dj6AeFY
> 
> 
> have a look at the bushes trayvon supposedly jumped out of. so much is just ridiculous.



Right there in that video, Trayvon is simply asking this guy if he has a problem, wanting to know who this suspicious stranger is who was chasing him, Zimmerman reaches for his pocket after saying no I don't have a problem.  Trayvon thinks " this dudes reaching for either a gun or a knife", do I run and get shot in the back or let this guy grab a knife and quickly close this 10-15 foot gap and gut me.  Hell no neither works out well for me it's go time.  George shouldn't have pursued, while he did though when he did talk to Martin he should have clarified 2 things I am with Neighborhood watch and I am just making sure the area is safe, do you live here?  As a responsible neighborhood watch he should know these things.

He shouldn't have lied when challenged by Martin with "you have a problem?"  He says no like a pussy and then fumbles in his pockets like a scared bitch instead of just saying, "maybe, I am neighborhood watch and I haven't seen you here before, do you live here or are you visiting someone?"

I have had to do this many times because my GF's mother who is mentally ill and has had drug problems from time to time would get mixed up with unsavory characters.  She isn't supposed to have any guests over but she used to get some grimey lowlifes to come to my house.  This is one reason I have 5 dogs, 3 of which would devour a strangers face.  A few times I'd hear my dogs barking and look out the window to see someone who looks straight out of How to Spot a Meth Head for Dummies trying to open our front gate that I keep locked for this reason.  " Can I help you?" Is my first response usually they ask " eh brah is G home?, I try call but she no ansah".  I always tell them she isn't home and she is not allowed to have guests over, this is my home she is already a guest living here.

Oh but I'm a good guy/gal brah I am not up to no bad or What this some kind prison for her, a half way house you can't treat her li'dat brah". Is the typical response.  I tell them" look what is your name and I'll tell her you came by."

I've had a guy jump my fence and I came out and told him you are trespassing, get back over that fence or the dogs and I are coming at you full force.  "Hey fuck you brah I come back and get you huh, I get my boys we fuck you up cuz..."  "Bring it me and the cop across the street and whoever is on duty will be waitng right here, looking for license plate Tr3 ft7 red beat to shit toyota pickup with faded white camper possibly in possesion of weapons, meth and paraphenalia...what was your name again?  How many outstanding warrants, your probation officers name...smile you're on candid camera(pointing to the camera hiding under the eave of my garage)

You have to know how to confront thugish people or those on that path, especially if George wanted to be a cop or even just the neighborhood hero...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## troubador (Jul 24, 2013)

maniclion said:


> Right there in that video, Trayvon is simply asking this guy if he has a problem, wanting to know who this suspicious stranger is who was chasing him, Zimmerman reaches for his pocket after saying no I don't have a problem.  Trayvon thinks " this dudes reaching for either a gun or a knife", do I run and get shot in the back or let this guy grab a knife and quickly close this 10-15 foot gap and gut me.  Hell no neither works out well for me it's go time.  George shouldn't have pursued, while he did though when he did talk to Martin he should have clarified 2 things I am with Neighborhood watch and I am just making sure the area is safe, do you live here?  As a responsible neighborhood watch he should know these things.
> 
> He shouldn't have lied when challenged by Martin with "you have a problem?"  He says no like a pussy and then fumbles in his pockets like a scared bitch instead of just saying, "maybe, I am neighborhood watch and I haven't seen you here before, do you live here or are you visiting someone?"



It's interesting in your story how this Trayvon character has moral immunity and the burden of morality is on George. George must act as the guardian and is even responsible for the poor decisions made by Trayvon. George is an imperfect christ-like figure that fails Trayvon who must suffer the consequences of George Christ's inability to bear Trayvon's sins. Ultimately George couldn't save Trayvon but can't escape his fate as the Christ and in vain bears Trayvon's sins in the end anyway. It's really beautiful man. Look forward to reading the entire novel.


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## Dale Mabry (Jul 25, 2013)

troubador said:


> There's no evidence that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation or provoked Martin into one. A really simple way to look at is, what illegal act did Zimmerman engage in before Martin punched him?



There is evidence he chased him(The 911 call), that's enough for me.  I don't think anyone has the right to chase someone else down, I believe that's called stalking and is illegal. At the end of the day all we have is Zimmerman's word and that's not enough for me just as Martin's word wouldn't have been enough for me if he survived and killed Zimmerman.


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## maniclion (Jul 25, 2013)

troubador said:


> It's interesting in your story how this Trayvon character has moral immunity and the burden of morality is on George. George must act as the guardian and is even responsible for the poor decisions made by Trayvon. George is an imperfect christ-like figure that fails Trayvon who must suffer the consequences of George Christ's inability to bear Trayvon's sins. Ultimately George couldn't save Trayvon but can't escape his fate as the Christ and in vain bears Trayvon's sins in the end anyway. It's really beautiful man. Look forward to reading the entire novel.



Zimmerman did have a higher moral obligation, he is an adult, Trayvon was a minor; GZ was acting as neighborhood watch his duty is to watch the neighborhood for the protection of people and property, he failed when he killed a current resident by assuming he was young, black and must be up to no good or on drugs or something; finally he is a concealed weapons holder and has a duty to avoid putting himself into situations where he may have to use it, being able to carry doesn't give you a badge nor a license to kill nor should it give someone extra courage to go chasing after someone he felt was suspicious and possibly up to no good and maybe on drugs.  What exactly was he expecting if he had caught up to this mysterious stranger in the rain?  How did he know this stranger wasn't armed and possibly crazed?  Would he have been so fleet footed if he wasn't armed?  I doubt it since he obviously had no skills to defend himself in hand to hand if his story is true.

The NRA should be the ones putting a bounty out on this loose cannon, not the Black Panthers.  All he has done is focus more negative attention on the second amendment and given ammo to those who would love to take our guns from our live warm hands.  How all of you gun owners can applaud him as a hero is beyond me, unless all of you have a hero complex like Georgie just because you can carry a firearm around and feel invincible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## LAM (Jul 25, 2013)

troubador said:


> It's interesting in your story how this Trayvon character has moral immunity and the burden of morality is on George. George must act as the guardian and is even responsible for the poor decisions made by Trayvon. George is an imperfect christ-like figure that fails Trayvon who must suffer the consequences of George Christ's inability to bear Trayvon's sins. Ultimately George couldn't save Trayvon but can't escape his fate as the Christ and in vain bears Trayvon's sins in the end anyway. It's really beautiful man. Look forward to reading the entire novel.



when you get down to brass tax one citizen has no authority to stop and question another.  so whatever transpired after that we will never know.  

one thing I do do is that people like Zimmerman who was obviously unstable to begin with is fucked for the rest of his life.  I'm sure he can't sleep for shit and nobody is going to want to hire that guy so employment opportunities for him in the future are slim and I find solace in knowing that.


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## bio-chem (Jul 25, 2013)

I'm worried there are more people out there like LW who could be chosen for a jury where all she needs to vote guilty is a "feeling" he is creepy.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> I'm worried there are more people out there like LW who could be chosen for a jury where all she needs to vote guilty is a "feeling" he is creepy.



i think this comment is more non compos mentis because you completely are missing the gulf between what i think might of hasppened and my believing the verdict is right. the prosecution did a shitty job  and it makes me feel a bit ill that they expected people to convict him without hard facts. guess they wanted a lynch mob not a jury. 

 i'm not one of the people upset with the verdict or jurors. you're ready to hang me for presenting an argument of what could have happened that night and completely ignoring the fact i'm content with the verdict. you clearly have no objective ability to identify people who know the difference between maybes and facts. i'm the one that isn't stooping to personal insults because i don't know or even think i know all the facts here and i have no need to insult people i consider friends over this case. so who is emotional or too invested? 

i think i'd have made a much more objective juror that people who are positive what happened either way cuz no one has really *proven* jack shit. they did not prove murder or manslaughter but that doesn't mean he didn't get away with murder. there is no way you can be absolutely sure of that given the evidence. like me, you have an opinion.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

LAM said:


> when you get down to brass tax one citizen has no authority to stop and question another.  so whatever transpired after that we will never know.
> 
> one thing I do do is that people like Zimmerman who was obviously unstable to begin with is fucked for the rest of his life.  I'm sure he can't sleep for shit and nobody is going to want to hire that guy so employment opportunities for him in the future are slim and I find solace in knowing that.



one witness said there was shouting back and forth including the word "no" then she saw people standing and both flailing arms before the shot. could mean zimmerman did try and detain martin. 

unfortunately a lot a racists would probably hoist zimmerman on their shoulders and shout hurrah. that's probably one of the things keeping him from sleeping. he's a hero to racists now. that must be really tough if you're not a racist. seemed pretty cold for the family he rescued to so vehemently reject any association with him...


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## heckler7 (Jul 25, 2013)

LAM said:


> when you get down to brass tax one citizen has no authority to stop and question another.  so whatever transpired after that we will never know.
> 
> one thing I do do is that people like Zimmerman who was obviously unstable to begin with is fucked for the rest of his life.  I'm sure he can't sleep for shit and nobody is going to want to hire that guy so employment opportunities for him in the future are slim and I find solace in knowing that.


its kind of freedom of speech, but even more so on your own property. What hasn't been addressed is that the kid didn't commit a crime so he shouldn't  have followed him. And GZ wasn't wearing a uniform which would distinguish him as security and maybe TM would have taken a different approach in the situation. Either way I wasn't on the jury so I don't know all the details, but as a father I would be pissed that my son is dead and all people care about is whos black and whos white.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

if he was just a guy out trying to be a good citizen and stop crime in his complex... and race didn't matter to him at all. has anyone considered what it must feel like to have racists patting you on the back for killing a ni**er? i doubt it feels any better than people thinking you killed someone you shouldn't have. racist using him for some kind of hero in their twisted little wet dreams is one of things that will ruin the rest of his life.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

heckler7 said:


> its kind of freedom of speech, but even more so on your own property. What hasn't been addressed is that the kid didn't commit a crime so he shouldn't  have followed him. And GZ wasn't wearing a uniform which would distinguish him as security and maybe TM would have taken a different approach in the situation. Either way I wasn't on the jury so I don't know all the details, but as a father I would be pissed that my son is dead and all people care about is whos black and whos white.



i think he should have stated why he was following the boy. probably would have changed the whole story. 

in an interview several days later, (officers) Singleton and Serino suggest  Zimmerman was running after Martin before the confrontation. They also  ask the neighborhood watch volunteer why he didn't explain to Martin why  he was following him. The officers insinuate that Martin may have been  "creeped out" by being followed. "Do you think he was scared?" Singleton asked Zimmerman in one video interview.


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## troubador (Jul 25, 2013)

Dale Mabry said:


> There is evidence he chased him(The 911 call), that's enough for me.  I don't think anyone has the right to chase someone else down, I believe that's called stalking and is illegal.



No, Z didn't stalk M. LW posted the actual law for us.




LAM said:


> when you get down to brass tax one citizen has no authority to stop and question another.  so whatever transpired after that we will never know.



There's no evidence Zimmerman stopped and questioned Martin. You guys have no problem making up your own facts. 

And it's "brass tacks" not tax.


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## troubador (Jul 25, 2013)

maniclion said:


> Zimmerman did have a higher moral obligation, he is an adult, Trayvon was a minor; GZ was acting as neighborhood watch his duty is to watch the neighborhood for the protection of people and property, he failed when he killed a current resident by assuming he was young, black and must be up to no good or on drugs or something; finally he is a concealed weapons holder and has a duty to avoid putting himself into situations where he may have to use it, being able to carry doesn't give you a badge nor a license to kill nor should it give someone extra courage to go chasing after someone he felt was suspicious and possibly up to no good and maybe on drugs.  What exactly was he expecting if he had caught up to this mysterious stranger in the rain?  How did he know this stranger wasn't armed and possibly crazed?  Would he have been so fleet footed if he wasn't armed?  I doubt it since he obviously had no skills to defend himself in hand to hand if his story is true.



Hey I don't know what they were thinking. You're the author not me.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

listen to the police interrogate him. he followed him then followed him some more. if it was YOUR kid it def would not seem like an ok thing to do.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

Feds take evidence related to Zimmerman trial, including gun - CNN.com


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## troubador (Jul 25, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> listen to the police interrogate him. he followed him then followed him some more. if it was YOUR kid it def would not seem like an ok thing to do.



It wasn't illegal and that's all that matters. You've expressed your feelings on the matter and we haven't forgot; no need to remind us.


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## Dale Mabry (Jul 25, 2013)

troubador said:


> No, Z didn't stalk M. LW posted the actual law for us.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For those of you who say SYG wasn't involved... 




As for stalking...Zimmerman followed him in his car and then got out on foot and followed him.  How is that not repeated following?  Let's look at another scenario...

You leave a bar and someone calls you a douche bag or whatever and follows you.  You try to run away, or maybe you don't.  The person antagonizes you and you hit him.  Somehow you get on top and start beating him, does anyone think he has a right to shoot you?  By every single loophole law pointed out in this case, the person on the bottom has the right to shoot you.  This is the problem, under no circumstance similar to that should a person be able to shoot another person.  I am all for a person's right to carry a firearm for self defense or protection and in this case it wasn't used in that way.  You are just asking for stricter gun laws by holding this degenerate to such high esteem.  An innocent person died(Maybe not a model citizen but guilty of no crime in this case) at the hands of someone who had no business shooting him.  This isn't going to help the case for the 2nd Amendment, it's going to hurt it.  What happened that night is anybody's guess, but an armed person should not be able to kill an unarmed person with their weapon if that person isn't committing a crime under any circumstance.  Sane people realize this and not all that many people carry guns.  Honestly I don't care because I don't carry a gun, but you should.  If shit like this is allowed to happen I can see the 2nd amendment slowly eroding away.  Hell, who would have guessed gays would be allowed to marry or states would start decriminalizing marijuana offenses any time soon and it is already happening.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

they ruled on heat of the moment syg law. now he will answer for the rest of it.


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## Dale Mabry (Jul 25, 2013)

I would like to point out I'm not comfortable with the justice department going after Zimmerman.  I think he should be in jail, but the truth of the matter of is that most of the blame can be laid at the foot of the prosecution who overcharged him and presented the wrong case.  I don't think there is any evidence of him violating Martin's civil rights and never was, that was the narrative the media took and it doesn't jibe with the evidence.  He will pay for what he did but I guess he should be happy he is free at least.  Maybe Fox News will hire him.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

i'd like to see a precedent set that civilians can't just follow people around with a loaded weapon because they have a wild imagination.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

Sometimes justice is meted out in stages.
      Trayvon Martin's parents have *settled a wrongful death claim with the  homeowners association of the Retreat at Twin Lakes*, the Florida housing  complex where their son was shot and killed by neighborhood watch  volunteer George Zimmerman.

      The undisclosed sum is believed to be more than $1 million

Read more: Trayvon Martin

it's already been clearly established that this was a wrongful death.  zimmerman's problems are not over. if it was my kid he killed i wouldn't be done with him yet either.


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## troubador (Jul 25, 2013)

Dale Mabry said:


> As for stalking...Zimmerman followed him in his car and then got out on foot and followed him.  How is that not repeated following?



There's no evidence of malicious intent. Zimmerman did not engage and disengage. The fact that he switched means of transportation seems irrelevant. 



> Let's look at another scenario...
> 
> You leave a bar and someone calls you a douche bag or whatever and follows you. You try to run away, or maybe you don't. *The person antagonizes you* and you hit him.  Somehow you get on top and start beating him, does anyone think he has a right to shoot you? By every single loophole law pointed out in this case, the person on the bottom has the right to shoot you. This is the problem, under no circumstance similar to that should a person be able to shoot another person.



Your scenario contains a key difference from the Zimmerman case. There's no evidence Zimmerman provoked the use of force against himself. If that were the case the defense would have been required to show Zimmerman "exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant". Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

You're wrong, the same principle applies to your scenario as in "you shoot to neutralize the threat, not kill them". So even if someone antagonizes you, you do not have the right to beat them to a pulp. Once the threat is neutralized you disengage. The right to self defense is just that, to prevent *your* death or great bodily harm. So yes in a similar circumstance where you continue to beat someone after they are no longer a threat they may very well have the right to shoot you. It's the same reason if you shot at someone who broke into your house then ran away, you can't chase them down the street then execute them.


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## heckler7 (Jul 25, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55l2Dj6AeFY
> 
> 
> have a look at the bushes trayvon supposedly jumped out of. so much is just ridiculous.


hate to say it but he seems like he's trying to be honest. and he looks like he took a good beating


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

Dale Mabry said:


> I would like to point out I'm not comfortable with the justice department going after Zimmerman.  I think he should be in jail, but the truth of the matter of is that most of the blame can be laid at the foot of the prosecution who overcharged him and presented the wrong case.  I don't think there is any evidence of him violating Martin's civil rights and never was, that was the narrative the media took and it doesn't jibe with the evidence.  He will pay for what he did but I guess he should be happy he is free at least.  Maybe Fox News will hire him.



if they can find the man that said zimmerman tried to detain trayvon and get him to talk.... whole new ball game.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

heckler7 said:


> hate to say it but he seems like he's trying to be honest. and he looks like he took a good beating



look like yes but this sharply contrasts with other statements he'd made.


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## bio-chem (Jul 25, 2013)

It's not us who say SYG wasn't involved it's the law. The defense did not bring up SYG once in the trial, and it wasn't necessary because SYG did not have to be invoked in this instance for it to be self defense. If that bothers you i guess you should take it up with the law makers in Florida


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## bio-chem (Jul 25, 2013)

This case never should have gone to trial, and this case never should have been so public. He shouldn't have to deal with people like LW 12 states away trying to convict him in the court of public opinion because she has access to Some of the information. It's funny to blame the prosecutors to me on this. They were dealt a losing hand and lost.


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## bio-chem (Jul 25, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i think this comment is more non compos mentis because you completely are missing the gulf between what i think might of hasppened and my believing the verdict is right. the prosecution did a shitty job  and it makes me feel a bit ill that they expected people to convict him without hard facts. guess they wanted a lynch mob not a jury.
> 
> i'm not one of the people upset with the verdict or jurors. you're ready to hang me for presenting an argument of what could have happened that night and completely ignoring the fact i'm content with the verdict. you clearly have no objective ability to identify people who know the difference between maybes and facts. i'm the one that isn't stooping to personal insults because i don't know or even think i know all the facts here and i have no need to insult people i consider friends over this case. so who is emotional or too invested?
> 
> i think i'd have made a much more objective juror that people who are positive what happened either way cuz no one has really *proven* jack shit. they did not prove murder or manslaughter but that doesn't mean he didn't get away with murder. there is no way you can be absolutely sure of that given the evidence. like me, you have an opinion.


Are you really this far gone? What i've been saying from the beginning is there is no evidence presented that leads me to believe he went out to kill this kid. He could have done things differently and trayvon would still be alive, but ive seen no evidence that what he did constitutes a crime. Show me where he attacked Trayvon? I'm waiting? I don't have a problem with a concerned citizen following someone in his neighborhood who he doesn't know, and I would hope my neighbors do the same in my neighborhood.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> Are you really this far gone? What i've been saying from the beginning is there is no evidence presented that leads me to believe he went out to kill this kid. He could have done things differently and trayvon would still be alive, but ive seen no evidence that what he did constitutes a crime. Show me where he attacked Trayvon? I'm waiting? I don't have a problem with a concerned citizen following someone in his neighborhood who he doesn't know, and I would hope my neighbors do the same in my neighborhood.



that's fine for you but if i catch some civilian pursuing my kid at night they are gonna have a problem with mama bear.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> This case never should have gone to trial, and this case never should have been so public. He shouldn't have to deal with people like LW 12 states away trying to convict him in the court of public opinion because she has access to Some of the information. It's funny to blame the prosecutors to me on this. They were dealt a losing hand and lost.



it is a wrongful death case and the homeowners association has already paid out over a million dollars. you'd be singing a different tune if it was your child.


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## KILLEROFSAINTS (Jul 25, 2013)

and legally youd be wrong


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

cops here are not retarded. i'd be fine.


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## bio-chem (Jul 25, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> it is a wrongful death case and the homeowners association has already paid out over a million dollars. you'd be singing a different tune if it was your child.



You mean the lawyers of the insurance company for the HOA negotiated a settlement to make this all go away as quickly as possible? Say it isn't so!


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## bio-chem (Jul 25, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> that's fine for you but if i catch some civilian pursuing my kid at night they are gonna have a problem with mama bear.


I hope you teach your kid not to attack people and momma bear should be fine. as well as baby bear will stay alive


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

What to Do If Someone Starts Following You: Ten Safety Tips - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

Stranger Danger Tips for Walkers - If You Think You Are Being Followed


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> You mean the lawyers of the insurance company for the HOA negotiated a settlement to make this all go away as quickly as possible? Say it isn't so!




because lawyers love to give people a MILLION dollars when they don't have a good case.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

this tip was under what to do if you're being stalked

If someone is following you, never go home.


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## DOMS (Jul 25, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> this tip was under what to do if you're being stalked
> 
> If someone is following you, never go home.



Another tip: The fire rate of a bag of Skittles is significantly lower than Kel-Tec PF-9.


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## bio-chem (Jul 25, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> What to Do If Someone Starts Following You: Ten Safety Tips - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com
> 
> Stranger Danger Tips for Walkers - If You Think You Are Being Followed



the kid was carrying a cell phone. instead of calling his friend and then going and jumping the guy following him, he could have, i don't know, called the cops.


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## bio-chem (Jul 25, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> because lawyers love to give people a MILLION dollars when they don't have a good case.



I'm pretty sure the actuary tables on this one said a million dollars was cheap compared to the negativity of letting this stay in the public eye for longer while fighting it. Use your head LW. geez


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

*the number one tip on the stranger danger link

If you think you are being followed: * Make a sudden turn, cross the street, accelerate, or go into a nearby  business. If being followed by a car, reverse your direction - it will  take them a much longer time to turn around and they will likely just  continue on to find a different target. *If you are unable to shake the  follower, turn around and scream, "What do you want?" in your most  indignant voice.*

or maybe, "do you got a problem?" 

smfh at people thinking zimmerman is some kind of neighborhood hero. after the cops chastised him for not identifying himself he said trayvon just jumped out of the bushes and punched him, states he fell backward and trayvon climbed on top of him like he didn't have time to explain himself. then during reenactment tells it completely different. trayvon was walking toward him asking what the fuck he wanted. just as he should have done according to safety tips. at that point the whole story changes if the stranger following him does the right thing. identifies himself just like the cops told him he had two opportunities to do. 


there are not a thousand or more safety tip pages telling people what to do if you are being followed because that's a non worrisome thing.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> I'm pretty sure the actuary tables on this one said a million dollars was cheap compared to the negativity of letting this stay in the public eye for longer while fighting it. Use your head LW. geez



any type of payment signals guilt. use yours. i'm sure they are _much_ better off having the world think they paid out cuz they are responsible for this boys wrongful death. lawyers don't just pay a million dollars to make boogy men they aren't afraid of go away or everyone would file bogus suits.


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## bio-chem (Jul 25, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> any type of payment signals guilt. *I don't believe that at all*use yours. i'm sure they are _much_ better off having the world think they paid out cuz they are responsible for this boys wrongful death. lawyers don't just pay a million dollars to make boogy men they aren't afraid of go away or everyone would file bogus suits. *Bogus suits are filed all the time, some even win.*



.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

another juror speaks

Then she adds:"As much as we were trying to find this man guilty?they give  you a booklet that basically tells you the truth, and the truth is that  there was nothing that we could do about it," she said. "I feel the  verdict was already told."​*The woman says she is having problems sleeping and eating.**"George Zimmerman got away with murder*, but you can't get  away from God. And at the end of the day, he's going to have a lot of  questions and answers he has to deal with," Maddy said. "[But] the law  couldn't prove it."​


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## heckler7 (Jul 25, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> *the number one tip on the stranger danger link
> 
> If you think you are being followed: * Make a sudden turn, cross the street, accelerate, or go into a nearby  business. If being followed by a car, reverse your direction - it will  take them a much longer time to turn around and they will likely just  continue on to find a different target. *If you are unable to shake the  follower, turn around and scream, "What do you want?" in your most  indignant voice.*
> 
> ...


I don't think that douchebag ZG is a hero, hes a stupid shit that put himself in this situation, but as well TM is a stupid shit that didn't have enough brains to ignore him or call 911 they both could have prevented this but I would expect more from an adult


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

heckler7 said:


> I don't think that douchebag ZG is a hero, hes a stupid shit that put himself in this situation, but as well TM is a stupid shit that didn't have enough brains to ignore him or call 911 they both could have prevented this but I would expect more from an adult



tm didn't have a phone on him to dial 911 with. he had candy and a can of juice. i advise parents when punishing a child to never take their phones away because it's a safety issue. not all kids have cellphones and a lot don't take them when they feel perfectly safe walking to the corner store etc. zimmerman probably changed that for a lot of people.


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## heckler7 (Jul 25, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> tm didn't have a phone on him to dial 911 with. he had candy and a can of juice. i advise parents when punishing a child to never take their phones away because it's a safety issue. not all kids have cellphones and a lot don't take them when they feel perfectly safe walking to the corner store etc. zimmerman probably changed that for a lot of people.


He did he was on the phone with his girlfriend and said some creepy cracker is following me


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## heckler7 (Jul 25, 2013)

Trayvon Martin : 'Creepy a** cracker is following me' - YouTube


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

heckler7 said:


> He did he was on the phone with his girlfriend and said some creepy cracker is following me



derp. i knew that. i suck at multi tasking. he could have had her call 911 while he called his dad.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

heckler7 said:


> Trayvon Martin : 'Creepy a** cracker is following me' - YouTube



i wonder if getting called a cracker actually stings anyone. it makes me laugh. i first heard it in vegas in the late 70's.


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## bio-chem (Jul 25, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> tm didn't have a phone on him to dial 911 with. he had candy and a can of juice. i advise parents when punishing a child to never take their phones away because it's a safety issue. not all kids have cellphones and a lot don't take them when they feel perfectly safe walking to the corner store etc. zimmerman probably changed that for a lot of people.



LW it's stuff like this that shows you aren't really looking at all the evidence, certainly not objectively. He did have his phone on him. He was talking to the heavy set black girl who testified at the trial she was on the phone with Martin when it all went down. The defense got her to admit during the cross examination that she had no idea who started the altercation.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

why bleep out testimony. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fwBaAPlP6c


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> LW it's stuff like this that shows you aren't really looking at all the evidence, certainly not objectively. He did have his phone on him. He was talking to the heavy set black girl who testified at the trial she was on the phone with Martin when it all went down. The defense got her to admit during the cross examination that she had no idea who started the altercation.



so what is your take on a juror saying she feels he got away with murder?


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## heckler7 (Jul 25, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i wonder if getting called a cracker actually stings anyone. it makes me laugh. i first heard it in vegas in the late 70's.


I actually find it funny because to me its more derogatory towards blacks, if you know history and where the term came from, Cracker was what slaves called their masters because they would crack a whip on them to get them working. so insult away its hilarious


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

or this

ORLANDO, Fla. ? Four of the jurors at the George Zimmerman trial are  distancing themselves from statements that another juror made in a  televised interview.
 The four jurors issued a statement late Tuesday that the opinions  expressed by Juror B37 to CNN?s Anderson Cooper on Monday night are not  representative of their views.
 They say Juror B37 was only speaking for herself.

 ... the jurors were initially divided on Zimmerman's guilt, with *three  jurors believing he was guilty of either manslaughter or second-degree  murder*, but that the jury agreed to acquit the 29-year-oldZimmerman  after more closely reviewing the law.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

heckler7 said:


> I actually find it funny because to me its more derogatory towards blacks, if you know history and where the term came from, Cracker was what slaves called their masters because they would crack a whip on them to get them working. so insult away its hilarious



there was actually  a black ball team called

Atlanta Black Crackers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> LW it's stuff like this that shows* you aren't really looking at all the evidence*, certainly not objectively. He did have his phone on him. He was talking to the heavy set black girl who testified at the trial she was on the phone with Martin when it all went down. The defense got her to admit during the cross examination that she had no idea who started the altercation.



i actually spoke of the phone n he should have called 911. sorry just have a migraine at just about the pain so bad i'm going to vomit stage... makes it hard to keep track of my own life let alone this thread.


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## troubador (Jul 25, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> ... the jurors were initially divided on Zimmerman's guilt, with three  jurors believing he was guilty of either manslaughter or second-degree  murder, but that the jury agreed to acquit the 29-year-oldZimmerman  *after more closely reviewing the law.*



It sounds like they wanted to convict him but got tripped up by that thing called the law.


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## Little Wing (Jul 25, 2013)

i'd totally punk out on jury duty and get my ass out of doing it. respect to them for doing it and having so much reverence for the law. makes it all the more powerful when women with that much morality say they think he got away with murder.


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## bio-chem (Jul 26, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> so what is your take on a juror saying she feels he got away with murder?



I've not read the jurors account yet, I don't know. Seems fishy a juror would vote innocent, then come on tv right afterwards and say the person got away with murder.


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## bio-chem (Jul 26, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i actually spoke of the phone n he should have called 911. sorry just have a migraine at just about the pain so bad i'm going to vomit stage... makes it hard to keep track of my own life let alone this thread.



Sorry LW. Hope these don't happen too often and you are feeling better


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## bio-chem (Jul 26, 2013)

troubador said:


> It sounds like they wanted to convict him but got tripped up by that thing called the law.



I will enlarge no more on the evidence, but submit it to you, gentlemen?Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence: nor is the law less stable than the fact. If an assault was made to endanger their lives, the law is clear, they had right kill in their own defence. John Adams in defending the troops who fired at the Boston Massacre


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## Little Wing (Jul 26, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> I will enlarge no more on the evidence, but submit it to you, gentlemen?Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence: nor is the law less stable than the fact. If an assault was made to endanger their lives, the law is clear, they had right kill in their own defence. John Adams in defending the troops who fired at the Boston Massacre



the fact is sometimes the jury has their hands tied due to the charges or the way a law is written. the fact is 5 of the jurors do not believe he is innocent and one plainly states he got away with murder. the lone juror that spoke out to explain why they voted not guilty makes it clear she wishes they could have got him on something. that is not a jury that thinks he is innocent.


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## Little Wing (Jul 26, 2013)

i guess like the ugly business with the elections. lets see what happens and how well that stings your ring.


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## troubador (Jul 26, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> the fact is sometimes the jury has their hands tied due to the charges or the way a law is written.



That is precisely the point. The facts and law are independent of our wishes. It's a testament to the judicial system that a group of people ruled according to the law and not their emotion. Jurors are not supposed to be a mini mob.


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## Little Wing (Jul 26, 2013)

yes. i agree. the jurors believe it was a crime with lack of proof. so do i.


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## bio-chem (Jul 26, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> the fact is sometimes the jury has their hands tied due to the charges or the way a law is written. the fact is 5 of the jurors do not believe he is innocent and one plainly states he got away with murder. the lone juror that spoke out to explain why they voted not guilty makes it clear she wishes they could have got him on something. that is not a jury that thinks he is innocent.



The jury all said he was innocent of the charges. the jury thinks he is innocent. so far 2 jurors have spoken out that i know of, and each one has said things slightly different. So it's pretty hard to say it's a fact what these jurrors believe as they are speaking for each other. "He is innocent of manslaughter, and second degeree murder, but he got away with murder"???????? what the fuck does that even mean? what a bunch of horse shit


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## Little Wing (Jul 26, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> The jury all said he was innocent of the charges. the jury thinks he is innocent. so far 2 jurors have spoken out that i know of, and each one has said things slightly different. So it's pretty hard to say it's a fact what these jurrors believe as they are speaking for each other. "He is innocent of manslaughter, and second degeree murder, but he got away with murder"???????? what the fuck does that even mean? what a bunch of horse shit



Juries never find defendants innocent. They cannot. Not only is it not  their job, it is not within their power. They can only find them "not  guilty."

A verdict of "not guilty" can mean a verdict of "not proven." Even if  you are very sure the defendant is guilty, but the state has not proven  it "beyond a reasonable doubt," then it is your sworn duty to return a  verdict of "not guilty."

Innocent v. Not Guilty Article | Duvall Law Office, P.C. | Eugene Oregon | Criminal Defense


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## maniclion (Jul 26, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> The jury all said he was innocent of the charges. the jury thinks he is innocent. so far 2 jurors have spoken out that i know of, and each one has said things slightly different. So it's pretty hard to say it's a fact what these jurrors believe as they are speaking for each other. "He is innocent of manslaughter, and second degeree murder, but he got away with murder"???????? what the fuck does that even mean? what a bunch of horse shit



It's pretty obvious this juror as many others of us believe, the Prosecution went in with the wrong charges, but from what I've read Florida's statutes under those laws were the best, worst thing they could maybe get him on.  I personally feel at best he should be charge with reckless endangerment of a minor, but I don't think Florida even has a law for that.  I do hope this sets a precedent and laws are passed to keep civilians from trying to be law enforcement.  Unless a person sees an actual crime, they should only observe and report suspicious activity just like most security guards are told to do.  And on the opposite side of this coin, anyone who hears a cry for help or see's someone in trouble and can help should be held accountable for not trying something.  I think that maybe the person George claims he saw open their door when he was fighting and then close it probably has more info, but feels guilty for closing the door and minding their own business and not coming forward with any new evidence.


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## Little Wing (Jul 26, 2013)

troubador said:


> Not malicious=not stalking.
> 
> Also, I think it's obvious your charge of stalking is ridiculous and I'm just indulging you. There's no evidence Zimmerman even engaged Martin much less stalk him.



Serino said that while he found no evidence that Martin was doing  anything criminal before the deadly confrontation, the foul language  Zimmerman used when he reported Martin to the dispatcher just before the  fatal confrontation showed "*ill-will and spite*."

Serino is the lead investigator who also said he thinks zimmerman exaggerated the severity of the attack...            

malice = ill will. look it up. 
​


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## Little Wing (Jul 26, 2013)

not real sure about charging anyone for not helping. in a perfect world maybe but things cross your mind like who will raise my kids. the person who opened the door did say he was calling 911 i believe and yelled to them to stop it.


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## maniclion (Jul 26, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> not real sure about charging anyone for not helping. in a perfect world maybe but things cross your mind like who will raise my kids. the person who opened the door did say he was calling 911 i believe and yelled to them to stop it.



I know I think that came out because I can't understand some of the things I've heard in this case.  One witness says she looked out of her window and saw two people flailing arms, instead of seeing what's going on she goes to turn off her stove.  Others testify they heard something, but why wouldn't they see what was going on?  Not one person was concerned that someone might be in danger, need medical help, were they all going to grab their cell phones so they'd have a video to post up on youtube?  How often do we see that, someone standing on the sidelines recording something instead of helping out.  "Hey look a guy in a wheelchair with his wheel stuck in the tracks and a train is coming, better get my camera out this will be epic on YT!"


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## Little Wing (Jul 26, 2013)

i'd call 911 but stay clear of the danger unless it was one of my kids screaming. there's only me here for them and that's my number one concern. stuff that happens like the guy getting beheaded on the greyhound in Canada RIGHT before we went to Montreal by bus makes me consider what ifs. I'd shield my kids with my body if something like that were happening and I couldn't get them away from the danger. fucked up times for sure. i think i'd charge someone with a gun if i was close enough because that seems safer than letting them stand there and fire off multiple shots or shoot you in the back as you try to flee.


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## troubador (Jul 27, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> Serino said that while he found no evidence that Martin was doing  anything criminal before the deadly confrontation, the foul language  Zimmerman used when he reported Martin to the dispatcher just before the  fatal confrontation showed "*ill-will and spite*."
> 
> Serino is the lead investigator who also said he thinks zimmerman exaggerated the severity of the attack...
> 
> ...



Oh yeah, Serino definitely wasn't on Zimmerman's side.


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## bio-chem (Aug 2, 2013)

IT director who raised questions about Zimmerman case is fired - CNN.com

 An employee of the Florida State Attorney's Office who testified that prosecutors withheld evidence from George Zimmerman's defense team has been fired.


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