# guerilla cardio?



## danchubbz (Sep 20, 2006)

what's the break-down of guerilla cardio, is it only 14 minutes u do, need to swap my cardio around.


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## Raz (Sep 20, 2006)

no buddy, its more like 4 minutes. I believe it's also known as the tabata protocol or more popular HIIT Cardio. So you sprint for 10-15secs, jog for 30, and repeat 5-10 times. It's a great aid for fat-burning and is good for general cardiovascular conditioning.


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## danchubbz (Sep 20, 2006)

just seen a website on it it's 4 mins warm up5 mins of 20 secs sprint 10 secs rest and a final 3 mins at the end - 12 mins in total.

Do u think this is enough - seems 2 quick 4 me.


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## Raz (Sep 20, 2006)

Ok gud stuff, That is much better than my example. You could work oyurself up, like sprint longer and rest shorter etc. But it seems fine, don't be a cardio queen. 1-2 days of cardio and 3 days of lifting compiled with a good diet will bring you amazing results.


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## Witchblade (Sep 20, 2006)

http://www.cs.unm.edu/~wneumann/files/guerilla_cardio.pdf

Is it too little? Try it. Remember: 10s jogging period as rest intervals. 8 sprints of 20 full seconds, all-out bursts.


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## kenwood (Sep 20, 2006)

is just do HIIT cardio  no warmup just start w/a 30sec walk/jogg and then a 30sec. sprint. the repeat. i started at 10min.


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## danchubbz (Sep 20, 2006)

the reason I ask is it too short cause at the moment I'm doing HIIT involving the rower for 30 secs burst/10 secs off and treadmill 30 secs on 30 secs off for 15 minutes with the speed increasing all the time (15.5 kph - 20 kph)

So there's about 23 mins there and knocking it down to 14 mins seems a step back.


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## Witchblade (Sep 20, 2006)

Sprinting is way more taxing than rowing or the treadmill. Besides, you'll burn more muscle when you do cardio for a longer period of time.


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## danchubbz (Sep 21, 2006)

but i'd be doing my guerilla cardio on the treadmill anyway!


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## P-funk (Sep 21, 2006)

It is done in less time because it is more intense then what you are doing now.


you can work hard or you can work long, but you can't do both.

using the tabata protocol (20sec on; 10sec off) is incredibley difficult.  I wouldn't do it on the treadmill because you fatigue fast, form goes to shit, and you risk injury.  I have clients either do it on a bike of with callistenics, like squat thrusts, or jumping jacks.

Try doing 5 rounds (20 on:10 off), rest for 2min. and then do 5 more rounds.


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## CowPimp (Sep 21, 2006)

P-funk said:


> It is done in less time because it is more intense then what you are doing now.
> 
> 
> you can work hard or you can work long, but you can't do both.
> ...



With how much success have you used the tabata protocol with clients?


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## P-funk (Sep 21, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> With how much success have you used the tabata protocol with clients?



lots of success.  it really helps to build up their capacity.

Some people might need to start with less work then others, but I build them up.  Some people might only be able to handle 1 round of 4 sets of tabatas and they are floored.  That is fine.  Next week, I try and get 5 sets.  Then, the week after that, I try and get 2 rounds of 3 sets, with a 2-3min. rest, having them try and work harder each week.  It helps to raise the aerobic capacity as well, so their aerobic training on days when they aren't with me goes up too.

If the perosn is really deconditioned, then I don't jump to the tabata protcol.  I use longer work:rest ratios.  It might be 30sec on, 90sec off, or something to that effect.


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## CowPimp (Sep 21, 2006)

P-funk said:


> lots of success.  it really helps to build up their capacity.
> 
> Some people might need to start with less work then others, but I build them up.  Some people might only be able to handle 1 round of 4 sets of tabatas and they are floored.  That is fine.  Next week, I try and get 5 sets.  Then, the week after that, I try and get 2 rounds of 3 sets, with a 2-3min. rest, having them try and work harder each week.  It helps to raise the aerobic capacity as well, so their aerobic training on days when they aren't with me goes up too.
> 
> If the perosn is really deconditioned, then I don't jump to the tabata protcol.  I use longer work:rest ratios.  It might be 30sec on, 90sec off, or something to that effect.



Cool stuff.  I never really do much conditioning work with people unless they are deconditioned to start, then I might take a little more of a circuit approach at first to help that ramp up faster.  Do you tend to do this on it's own day each week, or at the end of a resistance training session, or what?  Sounds interesting to me.


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## P-funk (Sep 21, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Cool stuff.  I never really do much conditioning work with people unless they are deconditioned to start, then I might take a little more of a circuit approach at first to help that ramp up faster.  Do you tend to do this on it's own day each week, or at the end of a resistance training session, or what?  Sounds interesting to me.



end of the session, if we have time, I have them hop on the bike and do some ESD work (also, depending on how intense we trained legs.  If it was an intense leg trainign day, then no go.  If it was lighter on the legs, then I have them do it)>


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## CowPimp (Sep 21, 2006)

P-funk said:


> end of the session, if we have time, I have them hop on the bike and do some ESD work (also, depending on how intense we trained legs.  If it was an intense leg trainign day, then no go.  If it was lighter on the legs, then I have them do it)>



Gotcha.  I actually had one of my guys try it today because he was just fucking owning the workout and finished pretty quickly.  We used squat thrusts, and that put him in his place.


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## P-funk (Sep 21, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Gotcha.  I actually had one of my guys try it today because he was just fucking owning the workout and finished pretty quickly.  We used squat thrusts, and that put him in his place.



yea,  another thing that really gets people working is intervals of treadmill pushes.

Turh the treadmill off
have the person stand on it and place their hands on the front rail
then, say go and give them 45sec to sprint as hard as they can, with the treadmill off, manually pushing it themself.


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## CowPimp (Sep 21, 2006)

P-funk said:


> yea,  another thing that really gets people working is intervals of treadmill pushes.
> 
> Turh the treadmill off
> have the person stand on it and place their hands on the front rail
> then, say go and give them 45sec to sprint as hard as they can, with the treadmill off, manually pushing it themself.



Haha, I like that.  I think some sled dragging would be awesome too, but I could only do that with select clients who come when it isn't very busy.


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## SuperFlex (Sep 21, 2006)

Do you guys honestly feel this is better than traditional running? I've just blown it off, but all the attention it's getting must mean good things. Obviously a treadmill is out if you have to sprint at full speed... I remember reading that the body doesn't even begin using fat as energy very well until you're 20 minutes into the workout.


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## P-funk (Sep 21, 2006)

waht is better then running?

what does fat have to do with sprinting?  i don't get your statements.


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## SuperFlex (Sep 21, 2006)

P-funk said:


> waht is better then running?
> 
> what does fat have to do with sprinting? i don't get your statements.


 
Nothing is better than running that I'm aware of. Unless you have a dirty mind...

By traditional running I mean the everyday steady run for 30 minutes. Is this truly superior was my question. Fat has plenty to do with it. Fat loss plays a role in why everyone runs. At least for the most part. What I'm talking about is that the body doesn't begin burning fat as the primary source until you've been doing cardio for at least 20 minutes. At 20 minutes fat and beyond it melts like butter... At least that is what I've read. However, I've also read that if you do 15 minutes twice a day it's just as effective as a single 30 minute session. Who knows what's right and what's wrong? Seeing as I've never been a cardio buff, I don't... The only time I ever did cardio with regularity was at 16 years old. I did an hour straight 5-6x a week. That gave me outstanding results, obviously.


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## P-funk (Sep 21, 2006)

SuperFlex said:


> Nothing is better than running that I'm aware of. Unless you have a dirty mind...
> 
> By traditional running I mean the everyday steady run for 30 minutes. Is this truly superior was my question. Fat has plenty to do with it. Fat loss plays a role in why everyone runs. At least for the most part. What I'm talking about is that the body doesn't begin burning fat as the primary source until you've been doing cardio for at least 20 minutes. At 20 minutes fat and beyond it melts like butter... At least that is what I've read. However, I've also read that if you do 15 minutes twice a day it's just as effective as a single 30 minute session. Who knows what's right and what's wrong? Seeing as I've never been a cardio buff, I don't... The only time I ever did cardio with regularity was at 16 years old. I did an hour straight 5-6x a week. That gave me outstanding results, obviously.




longer then 20min.  It is going to be exercises lasting longer then 30min. that there will start to be a GRADUAL shift towards fat metabollism.  Gradual because you still are going to deplete glycogen stores in the muscle and liver.  It take a long time to actually tap into fat stores truely.  You also need some glycolysis to take place in order to create kreb cycle intermediates (like pyruvate) so that it can spin more efficiently and prodice ATP aerobically.  Without that, fat takes a long time to break down and properly form ATP through the krebs cycle, hence the reason marathon runners will say they "hit the wall at mile 18".  Fat never just melts like butter.

the higher intensity stuff (like sprints) are going to not only increase execess post exercise oxygen consumption (helping to burn calories) but they will also help to increase VO2max and lactate threshold so when you do the longer, more steady state aerobics you are more efficient.


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## SuperFlex (Sep 21, 2006)

P-funk said:


> longer then 20min. It is going to be exercises lasting longer then 30min. that there will start to be a GRADUAL shift towards fat metabollism. Gradual because you still are going to deplete glycogen stores in the muscle and liver. It take a long time to actually tap into fat stores truely. You also need some glycolysis to take place in order to create kreb cycle intermediates (like pyruvate) so that it can spin more efficiently and prodice ATP aerobically. Without that, fat takes a long time to break down and properly form ATP through the krebs cycle, hence the reason marathon runners will say they "hit the wall at mile 18". Fat never just melts like butter.
> 
> the higher intensity stuff (like sprints) are going to not only increase execess post exercise oxygen consumption (helping to burn calories) but they will also help to increase VO2max and lactate threshold so when you do the longer, more steady state aerobics you are more efficient.


 

Good stuff, thanks. I'm going to do an eliptical machine 3x a week and run 3x. Would you suggest a mix of traditional and gorilla cardio or should I focus on one or the other?


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## P-funk (Sep 21, 2006)

SuperFlex said:


> Good stuff, thanks. I'm going to do an eliptical machine 3x a week and run 3x. Would you suggest a mix of traditional and gorilla cardio or should I focus on one or the other?



A program that is well rounded in both steady state cardio and interval work is optimal.


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## danchubbz (Sep 22, 2006)

Cheers P-Funk I'll give your way a go.


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## Plateau_Max (Sep 22, 2006)

I used to run 1.5 miles as fast as I could ever other day and do my extended cardio on the days in between, but I replaced the 1.5 runs with interval sprinting and that has brought me into a whole new world of plateau busting.

The thing with running a mile or so as fast as you can is that you're taking yourself to a gradual maximum ability, but with interval training you are pushing yourself to an absolute maximum several times over and over.  This is why your VO2max goes up very noticably in a short period of time.  Also when you're finished with 10-15 minutes of it you'll burn a very significantly greater amount of calories after you've finished in comparison.

The way I do it is sprint for 30, rest for 30, sprint for 45, rest for 45, sprint for 60, rest for 60, start over.  I prefer running because that's just me, but this can be applied with any cardio exercise.

Oh yeah it's great at building lean muscle tissue also, kinda like supersets.


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## CowPimp (Sep 22, 2006)

The energy substrate that you use during the exercise is not as important as the total amount of energy needed to perform the activity.  If the substrate was the most important factor, then sitting on your ass would be the most effective exercise.  You burn the highest percentage of fat while doing very little.  

Even when you're sprinting and doing interval training, you are using fat as an energy source.  Your body will use all available energy production mechanisms to get the job done.  The difference is that the percentage of anaerobic metabolism used is great.

The goal with respect to fatloss should be to use calories and increase metabolic rate, not "burn fat."


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