# strongest fat burners



## edk249 (May 23, 2011)

ive tried looking on google and every site has something different could anybody give me some info on the best fat burners out and what makes them the best id apreciate it


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## Curlingcadys (May 23, 2011)

edk249 said:


> ive tried looking on google and every site has something different could anybody give me some info on the best fat burners out and what makes them the best id apreciate it


 
6 scoops of a clean diet
1 Heaping scoop of a weight room with access to a treadmill for flavor
2 scoops of motivation
1 gal of water
and 5 min of country music to get ya pissed off

maybe just maybe sprinkle a E/C/A   or   E/C/Y stack and you're on your way....savi?


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## ~RaZr~ (May 23, 2011)

^^^
Don't forget the 6-8 hours of good sleep 

If no access to treadmill, hit up a spinning bike/class


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## Curlingcadys (May 23, 2011)

djlance said:


> ^^^
> Don't forget the 6-8 hours of good sleep


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## millertime (May 23, 2011)

rx6 way strong


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## RoidRage9 (May 23, 2011)

look into clen and t3


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## SFW (May 23, 2011)

Best otc = ephedrine (bronkaid) Drink a cup or 3 of coffee with that. G2g

Albuterol is great if you have the means to get it.


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## Good Grip (May 23, 2011)

Androlean combined with ephedrine would do it.


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## TGB1987 (May 24, 2011)

Oxyelite Pro by USP works great for me.


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## ThreeGigs (May 24, 2011)

The three fastest ways to lose fat are all diseases. Go get yourself some malaria. The next fastest is a stimulant alkaloid that works on the central nervous system. Generally available in the form of a white, water soluble powder, benzoylmethylecgonine was a very popular supplement in the late 1970s and 80's, however it was more commonly known as cocaine.

(Do you see where all this is going? Rapid weight loss is generally associated with extreme unhealthiness.)

So do you want a STRONG burner or one that's not going to harm you too much?


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## Pitbull44 (May 24, 2011)

Lipodrene, Can get it OTC and also around $25 bottle


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## MegaTron (May 25, 2011)

How does Albuterol help u lose weight.


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## DeathMetal (May 25, 2011)

RoidRage9 said:


> look into clen and t3



T3 will slice through muscle faster than you can bat an eye and should not be run unless being cycled with gear to preserve lean mass.

...all of which is for naught if you don't have your diet perfectly nailed down.


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## Kusakup (May 25, 2011)

DeathMetal said:


> T3 will slice through muscle faster than you can bat an eye and should not be run unless being cycled with gear to preserve lean mass.
> 
> ...all of which is for naught if you don't have your diet perfectly nailed down.



I agree, I ran clen/t3 and it did nothing for me except weaken me. Of course, I rebounded to around where I was after I got off of it.


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## SuperLift (May 25, 2011)

Pitbull44 said:


> Lipodrene, Can get it OTC and also around $25 bottle



lipodrene is pretty good stuff.. Gotta have a good diet/cardio regimen, just like you would for everything else!


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## hawkcmc (May 25, 2011)

Curlingcadys said:


> 6 scoops of a clean diet
> 1 Heaping scoop of a weight room with access to a treadmill for flavor
> 2 scoops of motivation
> 1 gal of water
> ...



I hate country though!


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## DeathMetal (May 26, 2011)

hawkcmc said:


> I hate country though!



That's the point


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## ANIMALHAUS (May 26, 2011)

Diet


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## Klutch (May 26, 2011)

hgh


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## OutWhey (May 26, 2011)

edk249 said:


> ive tried looking on google and every site has something different could anybody give me some info on the best fat burners out and what makes them the best id apreciate it


Fat burner are not magic. Nothing is going to beat diet suited for you with a cardio regimen to shred the fat. However, there are some supplements avaliable that will assit the body greatly in burning the fat. 

There is ADDERLLIN. I dont really have much to say about it except maybe compare it to some trash Ive taken over the years. I have taken a lot of stim products, and probably can't name them all because the names blend together, kinda like faces get lost in a crowd. Nothing really stood out. Everything made me shaky and my stomach upset, then I crashed and got tired. I got literally no crash from the adderllin, maybe a mild suppression of appetite but no jitters, nothing that upset my stomach or didn't agree with my body. 
Adderllin:

Need2Slin ALWAYS does very well on a diet.
Whether you’re trying to build muscle, burn fat, or both, you need to take advantage of every calorie you eat. You want your carbohydrates to supply energy; your proteins/fats to build muscle and melt away fat which I why I believe in Need2Slin. When insulin is released into the bloodstream, it acts to shuttle carbohydrates, proteins, and fats into various cells. If the proteins and carbohydrates find their way into muscle, the result is anabolic (muscle is gained). But if those nutrients change gears from the muscle to fat, then it’s stored as body fat. The key here is to make sure that your muscles are insulin sensitive. Insulin sensitivity plays a role in determining your muscle-to-fat ratio; the more insulin sensitive you are, the more muscle you gain while staying lean.
Need 2 Slin


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## sail9090 (May 26, 2011)

t3, clen, hgh


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## ~RaZr~ (May 26, 2011)

MegaTron said:


> How does Albuterol help u lose weight.



AlBUTEROL, clenBUTEROL (see how they have the same ending?) are bet-2 agonist. Without over killing it, they are potent bronchodilators used for fast-treatment of asthma. Albuterol is available in the United States. One of the reasons is because it DOESN'T have the long half life that its brother, Clenbuterol, has.  

Clen is used in veterinary medicine, if I'm correct and not even sold in the United States for human use. Outside of the US, it's available by prescription. Since it has a long half life, dosage is important or it could lead to serious complications (that's if you have a legit product). Thus the reason why you dont take milligrams, you take micrograms. Alb is not as powerful as Clen, but it's safer.


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## Hench (May 27, 2011)

^^Easy there big guy, we believe you.


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## ~RaZr~ (May 27, 2011)

NYC stack (norephedrine, yohimbine, caffeine) 
The original Clenbutrx (liquid ECA)
The original Venom Hyperdrive 3.0 (laced with Sibutramine)
The original Ventilean (which was laced with real CLENBUTEROL!)
Syntrax Triax (contained Tiratricol)

Oh wait...those are all banned or discontinued


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## |Z| (Jun 1, 2011)

After diet, for legal fat burners, I would suggest trying AndroLean or DS Lean Xtreme--both work the cortisol route. For a good thyroidal FB, try PES's Shift or if you are okay with stims I've had great experience with the mitotropin/phenorex products from Gaspari believe it or not. 

|Z|

Orbit Nutrition Rep


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## Oitepal (Jun 1, 2011)

OXI-Elite


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## bikeswimlive (Jun 3, 2011)

I prefer ECA (bronkaid), but I've seen some pics from the new Androlean logs that are quite impressive.


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## Pump4EVER (Jun 3, 2011)

I have only tried a couple but the good ones for me were Lipo 6 black and Poison from ALRI. Poison worked best for me...does what it says it does


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## NJRiot (Jun 4, 2011)

OTC.  Bronkaid for sure !!!
IMO.  Clenbuterol is the best


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## trapzilla (Jun 4, 2011)

OTC Mitotropin by Gaspari Nutrition.
But really the answer is Clenbuterol


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## DeathMetal (Jun 4, 2011)

Thirds on clen.  Stack it with Alpha T2 (PES) for some AWESOME results, assuming your diet is in check.


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## Miketheraower (Jun 5, 2011)

EC Stack!!


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## SurfsideRyan (Jun 5, 2011)

SWIM uses clen and he says it works fantastic, although they told me you have to be extremely careful with dosage and make sure you have an accurate oral syringe (without pin) in order to properly use clen. SWIM said to do some serious research on the dosing, side effects, and proper use of taking clen if someone chose to do it.

SWIM also told me its pretty easy to get a hold of if you know where to look


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## boxingorilla (Jun 8, 2011)

Oxyelite Pro is a sweet product for weight loss, gave me tons of energy without a crash and curbed my appetite (which is shocking, considering I can eat like none other haha)


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## kaipo (Jun 8, 2011)

USP have work for me still need to eat right and exercise


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## Author L. Rea (Jun 8, 2011)

hawkcmc said:


> i hate country though!


  roflmao!!!!!


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## newkid (Jun 8, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> Oxyelite Pro by USP works great for me.


 


millertime said:


> rx6 way strong


 


Pitbull44 said:


> Lipodrene, Can get it OTC and also around $25 bottle


 
these 3 are the best otc fat burners or maybe try eca stack

ive done clen and it really just dries me out not real weight loss besides water imo, sucks for appetite suppresion and actually makes me hungrier, can get cramps/shakes

started t3 on cycle and started dropping weight but also increased cardio so hard to discipher which is working


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## tangolima (Jun 8, 2011)

i use bronkaid from walgreens with a nodose, usually once or twice a day, sometimes i have coffee with it too in the morning. so 25mg of ephedrine sulfate with 2-3.. or 400 mg of caffine maybe. i do this bout 4 or 5 days of the week.


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## VolcomX311 (Jun 9, 2011)

Good Grip said:


> Androlean combined with ephedrine would do it.


 
I like the way you think sir   I may have to give that a go come July.


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## PRIDE. (Jun 9, 2011)

*Synthetek*

Syntheselen / Synthetine combo!

They also have a few others, SyntheBURN, SyntheBLOCKplus, etc. Check out their website: 
Synthetek Industries - Innovative Bodybuilding Products


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## RoidRage9 (Aug 23, 2011)

clen/t3 and HGH with a cycle of test p and tren a.


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## littlekev (Aug 23, 2011)

edk249 said:


> ive tried looking on google and every site has something different could anybody give me some info on the best fat burners out and what makes them the best id apreciate it



Well, Jay Cutler uses Hydroxycut


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## BigPapaPump68 (Aug 23, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> Oxyelite Pro by USP works great for me.



Probably the best I've tried in years.. I don't use them that much but was very impressed by it


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## t-ravie (Aug 24, 2011)

If you wana stay natural oxyelite is a safe option, or if you are not sensitive to stims try thermojet neogenics.

But i think it may only be availble here is AUS, not sure thou. I couldnt find it in US so i got it from here:


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## flexmichigan (Aug 24, 2011)

L Carnitine L Tartrate added to any fat burner is the shizzzznit


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## 240PLUS (Aug 24, 2011)

Any of the phentermine derivatives.


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## J4CKT (Aug 25, 2011)

PRIDE. said:


> Syntheselen / Synthetine combo!
> 
> They also have a few others, SyntheBURN, SyntheBLOCKplus, etc. Check out their website:
> Synthetek Industries - Innovative Bodybuilding Products



THIS!

If you want a good aid for fatloss without any negative sides this is the way 
to go.

Both increase your feeling of well being and Syntheselen also give you 
awesome increase in vascularity.

Can't go wrong with either or both.


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## GMO (Aug 25, 2011)

edk249 said:


> ive tried looking on google and every site has something different could anybody give me some info on the best fat burners out and what makes them the best id apreciate it


 
Cardio/diet/eca stack


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## packers6211 (Aug 25, 2011)

BPS Combustion from Orbitnutrition.com. Raw energy and no jitters. 1-2 caps a day and best of all it's not going to make you go broke.


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## sofargone561 (Aug 25, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> Oxyelite Pro by USP works great for me.


 HA! Finally another! this product works great for me as well


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## fatburners (Jan 2, 2012)

The loss of fat or muscle development is impossible without using an organized feeding strategy consisting of fat burning foods . In the following paragraphs, I will tell you how to build a highly effective diet program to integrate these powerful foods.


1) The beef meat is one of the foods that burn fat fast, as lean red meat is composed of high quality protein, helps in increasing muscle tissue which helps to burn body fat . Large amounts of B vitamins, zinc, creatine also are found in lean red meat, all these promote further development of muscle and speed recovery between sessions.


2) The next in the list of fat burning foods are chicken and turkey without skin. Not only do these cuts of meat have basically no fat or additives, but these are also loaded with protein, causing increased muscle development and weight loss

3) fatty acids Omega 3.son certainly healthy and are found in large quantities in fish oil, so be sure to incorporate these is your nutrition plan. Marine foods contain protein for muscle development and fat loss

4) The eggs certainly qualifies as one of the foods that burn fat fast . A good complement to almost any meal at any time of day, the eggs have the highest quality protein of all foods


5) One of the foods that burn fat fast is the cottage cheese. The cottage cheese provides all the vitamins and minerals which are found in skim milk, and it delivers about 15 grams of protein for each serving of a cup and a half.

6) Whey Protein, is sometimes seen as a supplement, is derived from 100% natural sources and is seen among the list of foods that burn fat fast . Well suited for promoting muscle growth and reduce fat, high protein content in serum is the best access.


7) The greens are probably the best fat burning foods , because the greens have very few calories, they could be eaten in large quantities without fear of ingesting calories. In order to optimize the reduction of fat, incorporating these types of vegetables with meals you can.



  An unexpected entry in the list of fat burning foods is avocado, that's actually one of the best. The vast majority of fats in the avocado is unsaturated, which makes it healthy, regardless of their apparent high fat levels. Incorporate small amounts of avocado in your diet reducing fat can have some good results and is why these are among the foods that burn fat fast.


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## MattPorter (Jan 3, 2012)

^

That is true if you are expending more energy than you take in. Nutrient rich foods, but eat just THE RIGHT amount, while doing cardio and weight training.

HOWEVER --

For an OTC fat burner --- I have used Chaotic Labz --MALICE and love this stuff! Euphoria is through the roof, something like an old school ECA stack without the heart palpitations..

Just off of 1 (ONE) single dose, this stuff is crazy, unless I got some special bottle that was laced.

For NON OTC --

Bronkaid ephedrine sulphate + caffeine + white willow + yohimbine

Clen/T3

Hgh/T4/Tren --- game over.

-Matt


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## Ambrose (Jan 4, 2012)

Hi dear,

I am not in the favor of using fat burning medicines and fat burning supplement because most of these have sever side effects. You simply use the fat loss foods such as green vegetables, citric fruits, and green tea for the fat burning.


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## packers6211 (Jan 4, 2012)

HMM Matt where can you find that? I'd like to give it a try. 



MattPorter said:


> ^
> 
> That is true if you are expending more energy than you take in. Nutrient rich foods, but eat just THE RIGHT amount, while doing cardio and weight training.
> 
> ...


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## ForgeFit (Jan 5, 2012)

With all of the DMAA (geranium / 1,3 dimethylamylamine) supplements out there that feel like you're on crack, don't be fooled. You HAVE to be aware that DMAA has NOT actually been shown to cause fat loss. 

In fact, a recent study showed that unlike ephedrine, caffeine, green tea and other "proven" fat burning ingredients, DMAA does NOT actually increase levels of the body's most important fat burning hormones epinephrine and norepinephrine (adrenalin and noradrenalin). The same study showed that it increase blood pressure substantially.  It also decreases blood flow (via the same "vasoconstriction" effect that causes the high blood pressure), which is exactly the opposite effect you want before training!

Also, lately there have been several incidents of potential negative side effects (although DMAA is probably only going to have these side effects in a small number of users). Not sure if I'm allowed to give a link but here's where I read about the study - NEW Startling Geranium Study - It Increases Blood Pressure but NOT Adrenalin! - Fitness Inventor

The problem with Clenbuterol of course is that it only works for like a week to ten days and then your body adapts and the effects are lost. You can cycle it but you still lose the effects quite quickly.

As far as the best fat burners, here in the UK a product called Grenade has become the best seller and it's only been out for year and a half. It already outsells Oxy Elite, Lipo-6 Black, Hydroxycut, Meltdown, RoxyLean, etc. Anyhow, it definitely gives you energy, burns fat and decreases appetite and doesn't have any DMAA, so perhaps give it a try?


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## patternsco (Jan 5, 2012)

strongest is dnp but that is dangerous stuff!


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## patternsco (Jan 5, 2012)

best otc ive tried is usp oxeylite pro - you'll sweat like hell though


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## N21 (Jan 5, 2012)

Its all about diet, cardio, drinking lots of water, and sleeping


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## enhancedmood (Jan 5, 2012)

So what is the best fat burner then


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## ForgeFit (Jan 6, 2012)

Like I said, I've tried all of the top burners over the years (including clenbuterol) and I think Grenade is best.
Although I agree that Diet (high protein, low sugar, low starch) is by far the most important factor followed by exercise and fat burners. However, keep in mind that a good fat burner will decrease your appetite and make it easier to stick to a clean diet - and Grenade has a nice effect on reducing my cravings for crap food.


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## VolcomX311 (Jan 6, 2012)

enhancedmood said:


> So what is the best fat burner then


 
ECA


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## oufinny (Jan 6, 2012)

Here are what I would suggest, just take out the spaces:

https: //www. mpresearchsupply.com/store/products/NYC-Stack-X-50CT-.html

https: //www. mpresearchsupply.com/store/products/ECA-Stack-50-Pills.html

THe NYC stack was the holy grail and this is, I believe, one of the only places selling it and you can also get ephedra there which is the basis of the ECA stack (or just buy it pre-mixed).


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## BP2000 (Jan 6, 2012)

ForgeFit said:


> Like I said, I've tried all of the top burners over the years (including clenbuterol) and I think Grenade is best.
> Although I agree that Diet (high protein, low sugar, low starch) is by far the most important factor followed by exercise and fat burners. However, keep in mind that a good fat burner will decrease your appetite and make it easier to stick to a clean diet - and Grenade *has a nice effect on reducing my cravings for crap food*.


 

  Supressing appetite is important.  Especially if you are just starting your diet and your body is still hooked on the American diet  (high sugar)

Once your body get's all the sugar out of your system and you start to eat unproccessed foods your body will adapt.

High protein, low startch and sugar, plenty of green's your golden.


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## BP2000 (Jan 6, 2012)

oufinny said:


> Here are what I would suggest, just take out the spaces:
> 
> https: //www. mpresearchsupply.com/store/products/NYC-Stack-X-50CT-.html
> 
> ...


 

Or just buy brokaid at Walgreen's and some caffine pills online. Pharma grade E HCL no guessing.  2 caps a few times a day


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## returnofthdragon (Jan 6, 2012)

oufinny said:


> THe NYC stack was the holy grail



Mine came in the mail today.  I'll be trying my first on in about an hour.  I hope it's good stuff.


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## BP2000 (Jan 6, 2012)

You will get adrenal fatigue if you take any of these for too long.  Trust me it suck's so be careful.


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## Ambrose (Jan 7, 2012)

Hi dear,

I am not in the favor of using fat burning medicines and fat burning supplement because most of these have sever side effects. You simply use the fat loss foods such as green vegetables, citric fruits, and green tea for the fat burning.



Genesis Fitness Center Maitland


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## jimm (Jan 7, 2012)

ECA stack is supposed to be good never used t myself but something I might try this summer to get even more ripped!!


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## Lang (Jan 7, 2012)

*What I have learned...*

I guess I would mention the need to track my diet. By that I mean taking the time to research and write down the caloric value of all the food I eat in a day and do this for an entire week. The need for this is to discover where your accumulating too many calories or where your "dirty" calories are coming from (e.g., simple sugars, refined white flowers, junk food). When you know where your calories are coming from its time to start to look at your caloric expenditures. The goal of course is to be in a deficit. I can loose fat eating 3000 calories a day, but I have to work my butt to the bone in order to make that happen. 

Taking control of my eating habits by creating a caloric inventory and eating clean without cheating is the best way I know to stay lean and yet build mass. Keeping in mind that every time I cheat and eat "dirty" it takes my body 3 days to reset itself back to a calorie burning machine rather than a fat storage monster. 

Taking a fat burner is only to increase the metabolism through the means of acting as an agonist or antagonist in the synapse of the neurons in the body, many of which are found in the gut. As soon as one stops the "fat burner" the nurons will revert back to their "old timing" and fat storage becomes a real problem for those who may have reverted to a dirty diet or are in a positive caloric phase.

Food for thought...


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## PRIDE. (Jan 7, 2012)

PRIDE. said:


> Syntheselen / Synthetine combo!
> 
> They also have a few others, SyntheBURN, SyntheBLOCKplus, etc. Check out their website:
> Synthetek Industries - Innovative Bodybuilding Products


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## dave 236 (Jan 8, 2012)

djlance said:


> AlBUTEROL, clenBUTEROL (see how they have the same ending?) are bet-2 agonist. Without over killing it, they are potent bronchodilators used for fast-treatment of asthma. Albuterol is available in the United States. One of the reasons is because it DOESN'T have the long half life that its brother, Clenbuterol, has.
> 
> Clen is used in veterinary medicine, if I'm correct and not even sold in the United States for human use. Outside of the US, it's available by prescription. Since it has a long half life, dosage is important or it could lead to serious complications (that's if you have a legit product). Thus the reason why you dont take milligrams, you take micrograms. Alb is not as powerful as Clen, but it's safer.



In veterinary meds clen is called ventapulmin. it's illeagal to dispense to humans in the U.S.  But this is pretty spot on as to the difference. its mainly the amount of time they give you the shakes lol. Both are reputed to have a slight anabolic activity as well.


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## ForgeFit (Jan 10, 2012)

Hi All,
As far as the safety aspect, this totally depends upon the particular fat burner you're talking about. Ephedrine, geranium (1,3 dimethylamylamine / DMAA) and to a lesser extent, Clenbuterol are unsuitable for some people - either they can make them very anxious, jittery and angry or in rare cases can have severe negative effects on health. Of particular risk is taking ephedrine and exercising in the heat. Most other ingredients found in fat burners are quite safe and have not been associated with adverse events. Clen is fairly safe but again, its effects only last several days and then even if you cycle it, its effects wear off quickly.


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## algarete10 (Jan 10, 2012)

ForgeFit said:


> Hi All,
> As far as the safety aspect, this totally depends upon the particular fat burner you're talking about. Ephedrine, geranium (1,3 dimethylamylamine / DMAA) and to a lesser extent, Clenbuterol are unsuitable for some people - either they can make them very anxious, jittery and angry or in rare cases can have severe negative effects on health. Of particular risk is taking ephedrine and exercising in the heat. Most other ingredients found in fat burners are quite safe and have not been associated with adverse events. Clen is fairly safe but again, its effects only last several days and then even if you cycle it, its effects wear off quickly.



Hey! First time poster here, figured I'd tag along on a related thread as opposed to needlessly clogging the forum with a new thread for a short question.

I just got back from South America, and have 480 mcg of Clen. What would be the most effective use of this to maximize it's thermogenic effects? If I follow the standard 20-40-60-80...120-"-" taper up, then I only have about six days worth of it, with only one full dose of 120. If I kept it at a lower 40 or 60, only ever increasing up to 80, I could go for a little bit longer. 

I realize I'm most likely splitting hairs, but would really like to do this right. Any insight or advice is thoroughly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!


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## striker4you (Jan 14, 2012)

DNP is easily by far
I've tried EC
YC and ECY, along with multiple other fat burners but 
DNP is harsh and you better know how to use it

but other than that a good diet, like IF work wonders


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## packers6211 (Jan 14, 2012)

I don't know why but today's ECA doesn't do anything to me at all. I know lots say it works, but when I took Xenadrine RFA-1, I never wanted to sit down, and lost a good bit of weight. Plus had a lot of energy. I tried the bronkaid deal, nothing.


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## VolcomX311 (Jan 16, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> I don't know why but today's ECA doesn't do anything to me at all. I know lots say it works, but when I took Xenadrine RFA-1, I never wanted to sit down, and lost a good bit of weight. Plus had a lot of energy. I tried the bronkaid deal, nothing.


 
Unless you're getting your epehdrine hcl from Broncaid or Vasopure, it's probably a boot-leg version of ephedrine, particulalry if you bought it as part of an OTC fat burner.  That's more likely the reason.  The only legit form of ephedrine hcl you can get these days are from Rx counters.  Knowing your history of stim product intake and how you've reacted to them, I'd say you have healthy adrenals, so barring some sort of issue with your adrenals, real ephedrine hcl should still get you pretty amped if it's legit ephed hcl and not ephedra


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## packers6211 (Jan 16, 2012)

Well that makes me wonder bro, why I haven't responded to any thing stims latley. The only thing that I have is craze and regular coffee afting using revamp for a month. Nothing fat burnning wise seems to help me or at least can't tell anything sign. It's like a need a full on attack stim cleaner lol. My trt is getting better in that I can see acne has attack me lol. I need to find something, cause my face is broken out.


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## VolcomX311 (Jan 16, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> Well that makes me wonder bro, why I haven't responded to any thing stims latley. The only thing that I have is craze and regular coffee afting using revamp for a month. Nothing fat burnning wise seems to help me or at least can't tell anything sign. It's like a need a full on attack stim cleaner lol. My trt is getting better in that I can see acne has attack me lol. I need to find something, cause my face is broken out.


 
A month off of stims should have been long enough to lose the tolerance.  My month off of stims will be up this Saturday.


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## packers6211 (Jan 17, 2012)

Oh oh bro what are you going with next!


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## SFW (Jan 17, 2012)

I think dexedrine is great because you dont even think about food at all. and the cleaning you get done? forget it. im talking white glove.


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## VolcomX311 (Jan 18, 2012)

packers6211 said:


> Oh oh bro what are you going with next!


 
I'd already purchased Mesomorph because it's tried & true for me.  Of the pre-workouts I've used (Jack3d, N2KS, ASGT, White Flood), Mesomorph has been the most effective all around, but I'll give Craze a go the next time I reset my adrenals so I can have an honest experience.


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## packers6211 (Jan 18, 2012)

Bro I will even send you some of mine to try no joke. Take it from me your the one that convinced my of meso. I loved it but like I said for me the newer formula as ok but like the original. Craze is something wicked lol. But since you told me the old version still around, I'll have to order me some soon. I just got my Creatine nitrate in today.


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