# To load or not to load? (Creatine)



## ShaqFu (Jul 10, 2002)

I've heard there's a debate as to whether or not it's really necessary.. so do you? or don't you? And why?

Thanks for the input


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## LAM (Jul 10, 2002)

it's not neccessary the end result will be the same as far as it's effectiveness on your training...

that's what the latest performance studies say, so that's what I go by.


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## bigss75 (Jul 10, 2002)

Loading is not needed. It is an american way though. In America every one wants results now and loading creatine makes people think they have done that . I felt I gain more muscle when I dont load also i have more cellar water retition and less regular water retition. (Sorry about spelling errors)


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## Dr. Pain (Jul 10, 2002)

That study used 9 people in each of 4 different groups

Group A took 5 grams of creatine per day for 5 days and stopped!

Group B took 5 grams of creatine 3 times a day for 5 days and then 3 grams a day for the rest of a month

Group C took 3 grams a day for a month w/no  load

and Group D took no creatine

Because muscle biopsies at the end of the month showed the same level of creatine in groups B and C (load and no load) They concluded that  loading was not necessary!

What a crock!

Load and get RESULTS SOONER and  FASTER,  and be way ahead of those at the end of the month who didn't load! 


DP


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## kuso (Jul 11, 2002)

I find when I do load I get major swelling and pain in the glands around my throat.

I do take more than most though.....at the moment I take 5g on off days and 10g on training days and feel MUCH better than when I`ve loaded.


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## Captain (Jul 11, 2002)

I agree with DP, but with qualifications.  

1) I would load if you've never had creatine before or if it has been more than a year since you last took creatine.

2) I would not load if you've been on creatine (and have previously loaded) any during the past year.

I've had discussions with several physicians/surgeons at Johns Hopkins about this subject  and  from my own experience.  I took  about 8 monthes where I took no creatine, after being on creatine for 3 years straight.  After those 8 monthes, I began taking creatine again, without a load, and regained significant strength and cellular volume rapidly (2 weeks).

Just my 2 cents.....


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## ponyboy (Jul 11, 2002)

Here's a study that supports loading...you can find differing viewpoints everywhere.


http://www.wsu.edu/athletics/strength/crload.htm


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## Dr. Pain (Jul 12, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Captain *_
> I agree with DP, but with qualifications.
> 
> 1) I would load if you've never had creatine before or if it has been more than a year since you last took creatine.
> ...



Very sound advice Captain!

There is also the concept of "Reloading" as presented by Bill Phillips (former owner of EAS) years ago.  Of course one could argue that this was to sell more creatine, but having sold TONS of creatine every year...I can tell you it works! 

Bill's contention is that rather than cycling creatine....6-8 weeks on, at least 1/2 the time off....one would "RELOAD"....that is after 6-8 weeks go back to the "loading schedule" for 3 days instead of 5-6!  He mentioned that this "up-regulates"  creatine receptors at the site of the muscle.   We have also seen this technique effective for brief unintentional interruptions in creatine usage!



> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> I find when I do load I get major swelling and pain in the glands around my throat.
> 
> I do take more than most though.....at the moment I take 5g on off days and 10g on training days and feel MUCH better than when I`ve loaded.


 

Kuso, I hate to say this, with you living in Japan and all, but DON'T use Asian grades of Creatine!  It's the dihydrotriazine, dicyannamide and creatinine residue that are causing your problems!   Look for German grades...Creapure from SKW Labs  or Pfanstihl (PF logo...German raw materials, American made)


DP


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## kuso (Jul 12, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> 
> 
> Kuso, I hate to say this, with you living in Japan and all, but DON'T use Asian grades of Creatine!  It's the dihydrotiazine, dicyannamide and creatinine residue that are causing your problems!   Look for German grades...Creapure from SKW Labs  or Pfanstihl (PF logo...German raw materials, American made)
> ...



DP...no worries there buddy.......It`s much cheaper for me to buy online from the states than it is to buy some crap here.

I have found I can get up to around 15g without a problem.....1g over and I have a LOT of discomfort.


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## LAM (Jul 13, 2002)

DP...what results, maximizing cellular hydration ? 

the main reason why any serious weight trainer should supplement with creatine is it's effect on ATP production and storage.  the long term results will be the same whether creatine is loaded or not.  it's the training that goes along with the supplmentation that makes the real difference...


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## Dr. Pain (Jul 14, 2002)

LAM, think in terms of Periodization!  If you have a training goal, say a mass or strength cycle of say 6 weeks.....would you want to load and accelerate the the results... or not load and possibly dimniish your results by a week or two?


The reason I use this example is that BBs and strength athletes can usually only "go  hard" for a period of time.  Creatine effects contractile capablity via enhanced ATP, such would be wasted during an "easy" period or time off.  

Additoinally "cell volumization" creates a hydrostatic pumping action in the muscle....this would also be wasted if not used to it's full potential!

People are misled thinking creatine builds LBM,   rather it allows for a greater stress/adaptation response....which with correct nutrition yields significant gains!  So plan ahead.......LOAD with the intention of hitting it hard by the fourth or fifth day....and your mass/strenght/progess will be gr8er than the Non-Loaders  at any point in time going forward...all other criteria constant! 

DP


DP


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## LAM (Jul 14, 2002)

ah..I see !


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## ShaqFu (Jul 15, 2002)

Thanks for the solid advice guys! It's very much appreciated.

I've been off creatine for a while now and I do have some goals I'd love to hit so I'm going to go ahead with the loading. And I've never heard of that reloading idea DP, sounds interesting. You ever try it?


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## Dr. Pain (Jul 15, 2002)

Yes, Reloading works!  I have used the technique many times.....and so have hundreds of my customers/clients. 


DP


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## nikegurl (Jul 17, 2002)

Here's another creatine question I've seen debated - do you take it every day or only on days you lift?  I've seen both answers.  Dr. Pain?


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## Dr. Pain (Jul 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> Here's another creatine question I've seen debated - do you take it every day or only on days you lift?  I've seen both answers.  Dr. Pain?




NG, think of your "creatine stores" as a "power reservoir".....you always want your 'Tank Topped!" 

So every day!   


DP


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## nikegurl (Jul 17, 2002)

makes sense....do you think the FSI effervescent creatine is any good or just marketing bullsheeeeiiit?

i have no bloat or stomach problems with it but it's the only creatine i've ever tried and sometimes i wonder if i might be better off with the monohydrate.  have you heard anything about whether it's less effective?  

and yes, nothing like having the tank topped!


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## Dr. Pain (Jul 17, 2002)

They (FSI) held the patent rights for the effervescent technology and sued almost every other company on the market that had a similar product!   Now most companies are licenced through them!  I Iike GEN better, but either will do!  One drawback for you is the 14-15 grams of  sugars in the product! 

It is literally creatine monohydrate with an alka-seltzer, changing the ph of the stomach and causing the creatine to "dump faster" thereby yielding "quicker absorbtion!"


DP


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## nikegurl (Jul 17, 2002)

the Creatine Clear doesn't have sugar in it.  it claims to be using a sodium transport system instead of sugar.

i have plenty left - not sure if i should stick with it or go with the regular monohydrate.  they claim it has faster/better absorbtion without the insulin spike.  but i have no idea if it's true.

thanks!


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## meathead (Jul 23, 2002)

Just curious, can someone please explain what is meant by loading? I train on a normal diet...have never used supplements?
 

Thx.


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## Mudge (Jul 23, 2002)

Loading being taking 20-25g per day as an example, for 5 days or a full week. Then going to 5-10g per day maintenance.


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## animal56 (Oct 15, 2002)

20-25g!!!!! Holy shit! Here I was thinking the 10g I was taking was high.

Okay, so to cut to the chase, if I am going to load, how much should I be taking, as a new Creatine user? I currently weigh 230lbs.


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## ShaqFu (Oct 15, 2002)

Mudge was right on.. that's standard loading.

20-25g per day, spread out in 5g dosages throughout your day for 5 days.

And then switch to 5 to 10 for 3-4 weeks.

Once those 3-4 weeks are up, it's debatable whether it's best to cycle off or just keep going.


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## The Berg Master (Nov 3, 2002)

I used to just take 5g a day or so, but after my 1 month break I have decided to try the loading hype. I have been taking 20-22g per day for the last four days and have had a few headaches and some problems with my stomache... bummer


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## gopro (Nov 5, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Corri *_
> I've heard there's a debate as to whether or not it's really necessary.. so do you? or don't you? And why?
> 
> Thanks for the input



I say load. Results come quicker, and the initial weight gain gives a nice psychological boost.


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## ZECH (Oct 13, 2003)

No reason to load now with the new transports that are out.............(swole v2, San V12)


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## Tha Don (Oct 13, 2003)

i've been told to take

4 x 5g (20g) Creatine a day for first 4-5 days

2 x 5g (10g) Creatine after loading dose for the rest of the month


I read somewhere that creatine dose not need to be cycled and that many athletes now take creatine continuously, and re-load it every 4-6 weeks

is that advised? just take 20g for a week then 10g for 4 weeks then 20g for a week then 10 for 4 weeks and so on....

peace


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## BabsieGirl (Oct 13, 2003)

I don't creatine load and many people I know do not do it either.  We think it's a way the promotor makes money.  If you load, you use more....if you don't you'll save.  The promotor wants to you use more so you'll have to purchase more sooner than you really should.  You'll get the same results.


This is my theory and the way I do it.


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## ZECH (Oct 13, 2003)

1) About cycling.............it is like any other supp. If you take it continuously, your receptors will adjust and your body will not feel the affects of the dose your taking unless you give your body a break and let you receptors return to normal before starting again. 
2)You don't have to load, but if you don't it will take several weeks to get your muscles saturated instead of days.


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## BabsieGirl (Oct 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> 1) About cycling.............it is like any other supp. If you take it continuously, your receptors will adjust and your body will not feel the affects of the dose your taking unless you give your body a break and let you receptors return to normal before starting again.
> 2)You don't have to load, but if you don't it will take several weeks to get your muscles saturated instead of days.


Smarty pants


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## kevin (Oct 13, 2003)

I tried creatine without loading my first time. I just started taking it with apple juice once a day. I saw no noticeable results after a month, so I quit for a few months. I tried again, and went through the whole loading phase. For me it made all the difference, and I loved the results. Besides, creatine monohydrate is cheap, so I don???t mind the loading phase.


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## ZECH (Oct 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> Smarty pants


What? I'm just trying to help!


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## Tha Don (Oct 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kevin *_
> I tried creatine without loading my first time. I just started taking it with apple juice once a day. I saw no noticeable results after a month, so I quit for a few months. I tried again, and went through the whole loading phase. For me it made all the difference, and I loved the results. Besides, creatine monohydrate is cheap, so I don???t mind the loading phase.



cool

i will definatly load next time i'm on it

this is the stuff i take is £44.99 a tub, its pricey shit 'Creatmax 8000GL from maximuscle' but it also has glutamine, dextrose, ALC, d-pintol a bit of protein and other stuff in it to aid delivery and results

So I'll probably just find some cheap pure creatine monohydrate and just use that as extra on my loading phase

Or else i won't only be getting 20g of creatine instead of 10g during loading, but I'll also have 20g of glutamine, 88g of dextrose, 4g of ALC etc.... might be a bit too much on top of weight gainers and whatever else i'm taking at the time

peace


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## HoldDaMayo (Oct 26, 2003)

i heard it's not good to take glutamine at the same time as creatine, i heard they compete for the same receptors... I heard creatine and glutamine peptides are fine, but straight glutamine or L-Glutamine at the same time as creatine isn't supposed to be as effective....


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## Antdan (Nov 22, 2003)

I havent heard anything about that


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## JerseyDevil (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: Re: To load or not to load? (Creatine)*



> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> I say load.


Hey Beavis....

... he said load. Hehhehehehehheehhhehehehehe. that was cool.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> What? I'm just trying to help!




I know and I was teasing ya


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## plouffe (Nov 24, 2003)

I wouldn't load


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## Antdan (Nov 24, 2003)

why


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 24, 2003)

why would you?


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## Antdan (Nov 24, 2003)

Well I just started takin Creatine and I take Gnc Mega Creatine with Phosphate and it says take 5 grams  a day no loading phase


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 24, 2003)

hmmm..

I take SwoleV.2.  Have no idea about the stuff you're taking from GNC.  I don't purchase supps from GNC......GNC is over priced.


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## Antdan (Nov 24, 2003)

I know Im gonna save up my money to Buy some Swole V.2 Im 16   so I dont have a job yet or steady income


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 25, 2003)

Been in your shoes before.  Know where you're comin from.  Let us know when you get it and how it worked for ya.

Keep


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## Antdan (Nov 25, 2003)

Thanks


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 25, 2003)

You're welcome


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## Burner02 (Nov 25, 2003)

so you are liking that swole, eh babs?
I am about out of my creatine...might give that stuff a whirl..


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 25, 2003)

yeah...Give it whirl.  Good stuff.


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## Burner02 (Nov 25, 2003)

wahoo! I want sum mus-kles...


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## PreMier (Nov 25, 2003)

I use pure creatine monohydrate, and I take 10g a day everyday.  I cycle off about every 6 months or so.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Burner02 *_
> wahoo! I want sum mus-kles...




Go get'em tiger


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## Tha Don (Jan 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by plouffe *_
> I wouldn't load



why?


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## Maynard Keenan (Jul 28, 2005)

Loading is bullshit.  Its just a way to make you spend more money.


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## pakkya (May 11, 2006)

-N00b alert-  

I ve never taken creatine. was thinking of giving it a try. i hear numbers like 10-15g after the load phase. How do u guys arrive on this number? Is there a scale like protien intake that exists for creatine intake?

thanks!


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## Seanp156 (May 13, 2006)

pakkya said:
			
		

> -N00b alert-
> 
> I ve never taken creatine. was thinking of giving it a try. i hear numbers like 10-15g after the load phase. How do u guys arrive on this number? Is there a scale like protien intake that exists for creatine intake?
> 
> thanks!



"Loading" is an old school theory for use with Creatine Monohydrate. It is debatable whether or not you even need to "load" monohydrate. Supposedly with newer creatines such as Creatine Ethyl Ester, Tri-Creatine Malate etc, you do not need to go through a loading phase.... Personally, I take a total of about 6 grams of creatine on workout days, and 3 grams on non-workout days. I've never used the "loading" theory for any type of creatine.


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## jerryjb5959 (May 13, 2006)

There is probably no need to load creatine but why not.  I mean creatine today is pretty darn cheap why not do a loading phase just to make sure you get the maximum benefit.


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## 240sx (May 14, 2006)

I am taking The vitamin shoppe brand mono hydrate, 5 grams a day no loading, when should i see results? mixing with water. what about grape juice any better? once a day should it be taking before or after work out?
And is this a good brand?...


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