# Slow Fat Loss (Body recomp)



## Ark94 (Jan 12, 2011)

know this sounds silly, especially when you look at a video of me. But my BF is just not healthy for me, and I want to lose some of it to a desired BF that I am happy with. No cutting bulking nonsense, I want to lose it slowly once, then eat healthy and right from then on and gain LBM. 

My stats:

Age - 16 (17 next month)
Height - 6ft / 6ft 1
Weight - 187-190 mid-day

Pics: When would you like pics? In the morning after sleep? Or in mid-day?

I have discussed this with Eric, and got my mentality right. He opened my eyes to understand what I really want to do, and how to say it because the way I explained it to him was ridiculous. 

I don???t want to do any ???yo-yo dieting???. Straight up slow BF loss, while maintaining muscle, or if not gaining more muscle. I won???t be hopping on a scale at all during the fat loss, just by visualization.  However, a suggestion by Eric was to continue on doing my strength routine, and introduce conditioning. I plan on fully doing that, but I want to get a diet set along with that to help body fat loss as well as some cardio. 

???Yo-yo dieting??? is cutting and bulking, and taking a drastic approach to cutting where the plan is to lose a lot of weight in a short period of time, but you lose a lot of muscle at the same time. And usually when you go off the cut you will gain the weight back, I want to maintain a steady fat loss, and keep it off after.

What would a diet look like to help? I will be asking tons of questions if you don???t mind. I know about dieting, but I just need help making sure everything is set, I know a diet would look like:

Breakfast 
(eggs, a 3:1 white to yolk ratio)
Fruits
2-3hours later
Meat
Fruits
Veggies

2-3hours later
Meat
Fruits
Veggies

2-3hours later
Meat
Fruits
Veggies

2-3hours later
Meat
Fruits
Veggies

2-3hours later
Meat
Fruits
Veggies

Should I cut out foods after 7? Or that just a myth?
I plan on starting this slow fat loss in February. I am starting accutane in February as well, so my diet has to be strict.
I don???t eat anything sugary, or drink milk. So I???m fine there.

Reasons for fat loss:

A lot is based on family history, and I don't want to take the same path. I know I won't, but my parents are willing to get the foods now, buy anything I need, and make the foods for me. Something that I cannot be 100% sure would happen later on in life.

As well, I was just talking to my dad, I don't normally do it much but he wishes he could have been slimmer, and has a good body. He also knows it takes great dedication, and a lot of mental work to achieve that. I want to do it for myself and for my dad as well. It is my own personal goal, always has been and will be. I want to achieve this.

QUESTIONS

How will my routine change? When will I do cardio, how much of it, and what type? Would I be doing cardio after my workouts, or strictly on off-days, with Thursday not counted because I squat on Friday. Would I be doing running? Or a steady pace cardio for an hour or two? Or 30minutes?
Would I be doing more isolation lifts, or can I stick with compound lifts?

I would love some help with a diet please.

Do I have to track everything and make sure I hit a certain amount of fats/carbs/proteins each day?
How will serving sizes work as well? THIS IS a major part I am always confused about. How will I go by portioning it so I can hit the target macros each day.


Really appreciate all the help!


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## Built (Jan 12, 2011)

Okay, lots of words here but no real information. 

Kindly go to FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal and enter what you intend to eat for the day. Report back with the total calories, and grams of protein, carb and fat and get those back to me, okay?  And yes, a pic would be great. In shorts please so we can see the wheels. Shirt off.


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## Ark94 (Jan 13, 2011)

Built said:


> Okay, lots of words here but no real information.
> 
> Kindly go to ... and enter what you intend to eat for the day. Report back with the total calories, and grams of protein, carb and fat and get those back to me, okay?  And yes, a pic would be great. In shorts please so we can see the wheels. Shirt off.




I don't know what I intend on eating. Thats the problem. I have no idea how big the portion sizes are suppose to be either. I need help making a diet.

Pictures will be up tonight. Have to get to school.

If you want, here is what i currently eat. Although its not something that is followed every day. I was eating this way to gain some weight for the last year.



> Breakfast
> 4 eggs ( I normally mix the bread into the egg, tastes very good)
> 4 pieces of bread (whole wheat, or rye)
> Water
> ...


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## Built (Jan 13, 2011)

Ark94 said:


> If you want, here is what i currently eat. Although its not something that is followed every day. I was eating this way to gain some weight for the last year.


Excellent. Fitday that and post it up. Before you do that, nobody can help you.


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## awhites1 (Jan 13, 2011)

If you're willing to spend some money, google "Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle" by tom venuto. its the best book i think for begginers, its about 40 bucks. download it, read it and take it to heart. 

You can try the link at the bottom of builts signature line, but if you dont mind spending a few bucks or for something a little more comprehensive try the book. 

You have to know quite a few things before you can start a diet. Sounds like you have some good ideas though, slow weight loss and maintaining muscle. these are important. 

Find out your BMR- base metabolic rate. in order to do that as built mentioned you have to find out how many calories your body requires in order to maintain your current weight and perform your day to day functions. then basiclly subtract a number or percentage of calories from that and stick to it. sounds simple but there is more to it.


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## Built (Jan 13, 2011)

Just so we're clear - my approach is not at all similar to Venuto's.


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## awhites1 (Jan 13, 2011)

Built said:


> Just so we're clear - my approach is not at all similar to Venuto's.



yeah. but some of the basics are. as far as information regarding getting your BMR and reducing calories. the major thing i've noticed is you aren't a big proponent of working off calories but more diet oriented. Where as he teaches two a days and what not. I think theres a place in the middle though.

I think diet/self control should be priority number one though. i've got in the habbit before of eating crap i shouldnt then saying I'll just work it off later at the gym so his approach can be detrimental as well if you dont get the self control part down.

sorry, not trying to lump you together. just that basics are basics. im sure you both agree on goal setting, factoring in body type/individual metabolic rates, calories, meal timing, macros, carb cycling. etc etc


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## Built (Jan 13, 2011)

It all comes down to calories. 

Venuto's book outlines the old-school bodybuilder approach that continues to form the basis of mainstream fitness protocols. He advocates small frequent meals and a low-fat diet.

My approach is based on science and satiety. I pay little attention to individual meal composition and advocate a "feed-bag" approach to dieting, where you simply preplan and pack up your day, then eat it whenever you like - when it's gone, it's gone. 

For comfort and satiety, I prefer to eat three large meals with no snacks, all eaten within a 10-hour window but this matters little, outside of enhancing compliance if you happen to be more comfortable this way. Many have trained themselves to eat six meals a day and prefer it. I recognize this is also just fine, if it means you stick to your diet. 

Both methods work just fine, in that both produce the desired result, if you can stick to it. 

Mine's easier and more comfortable if you're a novice, particularly if you've been fat. 

PS I don't think I mention BMR anywhere in my approach.


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## Ark94 (Jan 13, 2011)

Hey guys thanks, i appreciate all the replies.

I have been working out properly, and everything for a year now. I was working out before that, but being that silly teen only doing chest, i don't count those 2years, i have a solid year proper.

At first, i didn't know much so i decided to cut. It was stupid, and i did it for two months. I realized i shouldn't have, then bulked following a diet. After that, i was told to just "eat like a horse" and it should be semi healthy. That is what i have done for 10months now.



> I think diet/self control should be priority number one though. i've got in the habbit before of eating crap i shouldnt then saying I'll just work it off later at the gym so his approach can be detrimental as well if you dont get the self control part down.



See, im not like that. 

I don't want to sound like I'm cocky, or arrogant or anything like that, but you guys don't know me to well. I know it may sound weird, but i am a very disciplined teenager. Not the ones you find that wouldn't stick with anything for long. I can follow anything I'm told, and that is why i needed help making a diet 

I believe i do have Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle. A buddy sent it to me, so ill try and dig that up.




> Excellent. Fitday that and post it up. Before you do that, nobody can help you.



I'll go onto Fit-day and sort that out, but honestly it won't be of much use. I would be better off getting a diet set, and figuring out my new BMR. 

Reason i am saying it won't be much use is because currently, i have no idea how big the portions are, and its not something i follow on a day to day basis. The meals may vary, like i would have instead of eggs, tuna and chicken and shepherds pie etc.


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## Ark94 (Jan 13, 2011)

Okay, so i just input the majority of stuff into Fit-day. 

One thing i never liked about Fit-day is choosing the foods on there. Its hard, i live in canada and sometime the meats are different. And when i have things like, spaghetti i have no idea how to put it in. Whether i should click spaghetti, or choose everything separately, like the meat used, the noodles etc.

The numbers i have here do NOT include dinner. I had no idea what to put in for dinner, i am indian so normally we eat Roti, with some brown food. So you can add couple hundred more calories at least.


Total Calories: 3,010
Proteins: 222
Carbs: 248.3
Fats: 130.6

Can't say this is 100% accurate, but along the lines. You can however add more to the fat side, there is more fat in indian cooking and what my mom makes. 


Hopefully this helps for numbers


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## Built (Jan 13, 2011)

I live in Canada and I have to program in a few things, too. Go to the USDA nutrient database and look up foods; also look at package labels and at similar foods - for instance, chicken curry is nutritionally not much different from chicken stew. 

BTW calorieking has other foods on it: CalorieKing - Calorie Counter - Calories in Indian & Pakistan: Sides, Chapati or Roti, baked whole wheat bread

FYI, do a half-assed job answering the question upon which your future success depends, you can expect half-assed answers from me - and half-assed results. I didn't tell you to do this to keep you busy or to test your resolve. I asked you to do this because until you figure out your diet, you'll get nowhere. I'm trying to save YOU time. Please don't waste MINE.


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## Ark94 (Jan 13, 2011)

Built said:


> FYI, do a half-assed job answering the question upon which your future success depends, you can expect half-assed answers from me - and half-assed results. I didn't tell you to do this to keep you busy or to test your resolve. I asked you to do this because until you figure out your diet, you'll get nowhere. I'm trying to save YOU time. Please don't waste MINE.



Okay sorry, i had no idea what to put in. Now i do.

Here is the daily intake:

Calories: 3763
Protein: 285.2g
Fat: 163.6g
Carbs: 300.5g

Is that what you wanted?


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## Built (Jan 13, 2011)

Yes it was, and check your recent rep points. 

Okay, assuming this is your average intake (I love to assume, it makes an ass, of u, and me...), your protein is more than sufficient and your fats are ample.

Given your weight at just shy of 200 lbs, maintenance at or around 3000 a day would be reasonable; given your age, and especially if you're fairly active, 3700 isn't entirely out of line for maintenance. Does this intake seem typical, and are you currently gaining, losing, or maintaining?


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## Ark94 (Jan 13, 2011)

Built said:


> Yes it was, and check your recent rep points.
> 
> Okay, assuming this is your average intake (I love to assume, it makes an ass, of u, and me...), your protein is more than sufficient and your fats are ample.
> 
> Given your weight at just shy of 200 lbs, maintenance at or around 3000 a day would be reasonable; given your age, and especially if you're fairly active, 3700 isn't entirely out of line for maintenance. Does this intake seem typical, and are you currently gaining, losing, or maintaining?



I am not actually all that active right now. I workout hard 3 times a weak, all strength training so a lot of compound big lifts. I stopped running and cardio because i wanted to put on size, but it has stopped.

The intake seems typical by the way you have described it. Especially since i am younger it seems like a good intake, but all gains have stopped.

I will give you an idea of how it has worked.

I am no longer gaining weight. I lost a few pounds, but it was fluctuating a lot. I do weigh myself the same time.

From June last year, i went from approx. 145lbs to 190lbs. I gained about 30lbs in the summer, all in a period of 3 months all the while playing soccer.

Now since September, i have gained 15lbs, not a big increase, but i gained that in 2 or months. I have not gained weight since December. I have been at a solid 187-190lbs. But my strength has not gone up much either.

Right now i am maintaining, not gaining anything.





> Okay, assuming this is your average intake (I love to assume, it makes an ass, of u, and me...), your protein is more than sufficient and your fats are ample.



yes sir that is my average intake. Only thing i would have different is a cheat meal maybe 2-3times a week to help my gain. It would be pizza once, and a burger the other times. But i hardly ever get to eat out, my parents hate that


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## Built (Jan 13, 2011)

Okay, this is all good information to know. I live in Vancouver, in the middle of Little India, and I am well-acquainted with the - ahhhh "slimming" qualities of Brown cuisine. My own guilty pleasures include a neighborhood sweet shop with THE best pistachio burfee in the known universe (Himilaya on Main. The gulab jamun are to DIE for, especially when they're still warm) - and my coconut-milk kheer would make you cry. The gelato places here sell kulfi (it's not authentic kulfi, but it's pretty good). I've also seen a lot of fat little Brown kids and fat older Brown grandparent - your people LOVE ghee and sugar, in EVERYTHING LOL!

That being said, you, personally, are armed with information. You are NOT going to let yourself get fat. You know how to match your training with your diet, and if you find your weight creeping up too fast and your middle getting a spare tire, you'll know how to diet down - or ask someone here how to diet down so you can save yourself some time. 

You've made some good gains, and now they've slowed. You're going to have to relax and let yourself gain some weight. 

How about this - can you set up a diet for yourself that gets in 4000 calories a day and see what happens over a two-week period? Set it up on fitday :

4000 calories
250-300g protein
100 or more of fat
the rest your calories from whatever combination of protein, carb and fat you find comfortable (lean on fats, it makes it easier to get in the calories - olive oil is wonderful for this purpose because it boosts testosterone production) 

Eat whenever you like in as many meals as you like - the only meals to pay attention to are pre and post workout meals, which are where you should make sure you get in a nice bigh whack of carbs and a reasonable amount of protein.

After two weeks of this, post back with your weight and let us know how much you've gained. If you haven't, add another 500 calories to this and try for another two weeks. 

Sound good?


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## TwisT (Jan 13, 2011)

Listen to built, knows her nutrition shit more then anyone around here...

I wonder if my body is good enough for her 



-T


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## Ark94 (Jan 13, 2011)

> Okay, this is all good information to know. I live in Vancouver, in the middle of Little India, and I am well-acquainted with the - ahhhh "slimming" qualities of Brown cuisine. My own guilty pleasures include a neighborhood sweet shop with THE best pistachio burfee in the known universe (Himilaya on Main. The gulab jamun are to DIE for, especially when they're still warm) - and my coconut-milk kheer would make you cry. The gelato places here sell kulfi (it's not authentic kulfi, but it's pretty good). I've also seen a lot of fat little Brown kids and fat older Brown grandparent - your people LOVE ghee and sugar, in EVERYTHING LOL!




Haha your so brown! Everything you mentioned, i never eat, and don't plan on eating. My family eats it once in a while, like i mean once every few months 




> You've made some good gains, and now they've slowed. You're going to have to relax and let yourself gain some weight.



I am just curious why you would say this? What is the benefit though to gaining more weight? 




> Sound good?



I would like to be straight up. That was not my intention. I went through that for a year, of course it wasn't being monitored though, if it was my gains most likely could have been slightly better.


My goal is to get down to a healthy and comfortable BF %. When i get there, i was going to switch into a bodybuilding style routine, and add LBM with as little fat as possible. 

Its easier to track progress to when i am leaner to tell if i am gaining fat, or muscle. Right now i can't tell what is what. especially when lifts aren't going up and I've stalled in weight.

I know if i cut weight down, i will be skinny, and lanky especially being 6ft. But right now, i am willing to do that rather than be fatter.

My major reason is because my parents are currently willing to do everything, as in buy any foods necessary. They are very supportive. When i head off to Uni or college, i could never know what will happen. I have the dedication to stick with it no matter what, but my budget could be very hard to buy all the foods if i was living alone. Get what im saying?

I understand the intentions to gain weight, but its just not my goal, or something i want to do. I want to get lean, and gain solid muscle.


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## Built (Jan 13, 2011)

Ark94 said:


> I am just curious why you would say this? What is the benefit though to gaining more weight?



You are a young man with the most testosterone in your body that you'll ever have in your life, barring gear. 

You're 6'1" and haven't cracked 200 lbs. Even if your bones are THIN, this is not heavy. You've got some filling-in to do, and my money says your legs need to gain some size. 

Now is not the time to cut. 





Ark94 said:


> I would like to be straight up. That was not my intention. I went through that for a year, of course it wasn't being monitored though, if it was my gains most likely could have been slightly better.
> 
> 
> My goal is to get down to a healthy and comfortable BF %. When i get there, i was going to switch into a bodybuilding style routine, and add LBM with as little fat as possible.
> ...



I understand - but you can't be fat right now, not at your height and your weight. 

Can I impose upon you to describe, in detail, your current training? Day by day, lifts, weight used, reps, and sets. 

Also, measure your calf, thigh, hip, waist at navel, chest at nipples, and bicep. I want to get an idea of your proportions.


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## vindicated346 (Jan 13, 2011)

Ark94 said:


> YES SIR that is my average intake. Only thing i would have different is a cheat meal maybe 2-3times a week to help my gain. It would be pizza once, and a burger the other times. But i hardly ever get to eat out, my parents hate that



built is a woman bro..lol..its all good just listen to her, she knows her shit


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## Ark94 (Jan 13, 2011)

Here is the routine. 

*DEADLIFT DAY	
*Deadlifts - 255x8x3
Bulgarian Split Squats - 50lbs total (25lb in each hand) - 25 x 10 x 3
Grip Training (Static Holds) - 335 x 6 sec x 3 sets , 315 x 8 sec
Core Training - Bar Rollouts - 95 x 6 x 3

*PRESS DAY
*OHP (with BB) - 105 x 6 x 2 , 105 x 5 x 2
Pull-ups - 9reps, 8reps, 6reps, 5reps (i try for a certain amount of reps in 4 sets)
Dumbbell Rows - 70 x 8 x 3
Cable Rows - 80 x 12 x 3
Core Training - Straight Arm Pulldown - 90 x 6, 80 x 9, 80 x 10, 80 x 9

*SQUAT DAY
*Overhead Squats - 55 x 2 x 5
Front Squats - 125 x 3 x 4  ( i was doing 155 x 6 x 4 but my form wasn't on par, reseted weight to fix issues)
Dumbbell Plate Pinches - 50lbs total x 6 x 4
Facepulls - 80 x 10 x 4
Core Training - Renegade Rows - 20 x 12 x 3



> You're 6'1" and haven't cracked 200 lbs. Even if your bones are THIN, this is not heavy. You've got some filling-in to do, and my money says your legs need to gain some size.



They do need to gain size, and my bones are thin.




> Also, measure your calf, thigh, hip, waist at navel, chest at nipples, and bicep. I want to get an idea of your proportions.



I will have to find the tape for that. I am working on getting those pictures up, they will give you a better idea. But my camera is being stupid, and i need to get some sleep. I will try my best to do it for tonight if my computer lets me, otherwise tomorrow they will be up.


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## Ark94 (Jan 13, 2011)

vindicated346 said:


> built is a woman bro..lol..its all good just listen to her, she knows her shit



sorry built!!! I had no idea, so its not my fault 

Okay, i am uploading the pictures now. I have VERY slow internet, hopefully they will be done by the morning.

As far as my dieting thing goes, it wasn't much of a cut though as i think you guys are thinking of it as. Its more of a body recompisition. I would try and maintain the weight and then slowly cut fat and gain muscle hovering around the 180-190lb mark, getting to a desirable bodyfat.

Here are the pictures







 (side)





(front)





(Legs)





(front again)





(side again)





(back)

I have fat, and its just how my family is. My history has all been overweight, and my dad currently has fatty liver, and fat that is "dead". it doesn't jiggle nothing, the doctor said it was a specific type of fat but i forgot the name.

I do not want to end up like that, i know i won't but like i explained before situations can change.

copy and paste the links, but add an h infront of each link. I cannot attach links until 20 posts


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## Built (Jan 13, 2011)

NP, it doesn't matter to you if I'm a chick - you just want to get jacked. I know how to do that. 

Your workout looks pretty good - but those squats have got to go up - that's what you will train harder and more as you continue to slowly gain weight and get stronger. 

For now, get some sleep. You've done a great deal of self-study today, and this bodes well for your future. I'll look forward to you finding a measuring tape and getting some numbers up for your parameters.


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## Ark94 (Jan 14, 2011)

Pictures are up there now.



> As far as my dieting thing goes, it wasn't much of a cut though as i think you guys are thinking of it as. Its more of a body recompisition. I would try and maintain the weight and then slowly cut fat and gain muscle hovering around the 180-190lb mark, getting to a desirable bodyfat.
> 
> Here are the pictures
> 
> ...


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## Built (Jan 14, 2011)

Ark94 said:


> Pictures are up there now.



Cool - I see 'em there. 

Looking at your body and at your workouts, I think you just need to ramp up your training a bit. You're actually fairly symmetric - and just a little soft in the middle. Nothing that can't be easily fixed. 

How heavy can you back-squat, and how many days a week are you available to go to the gym?


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## Ark94 (Jan 14, 2011)

> NP, it doesn't matter to you if I'm a chick - you just want to get jacked. I know how to do that.



Oh i know, it makes no difference. Just have to remember to not say sir 



Built said:


> Cool - I see 'em there.
> 
> Looking at your body and at your workouts, I think you just need to ramp up your training a bit. You're actually fairly symmetric - and just a little soft in the middle. Nothing that can't be easily fixed.
> 
> How heavy can you back-squat, and how many days a week are you available to go to the gym?



I will explain a little bit more. My goal isn't to do this strength training stuff i am doing right now. I am doing it because i have been told without being strong and lifting big weights, i won't be able to pack on size. So i starting doing this strength stuff, i would rather do a bodybuilding style routine, but keep compound lifts in there cause i love them 

I think i am a bit more than soft in the middle 


I have no back squatted since June 2010. I switched into front squats to start training my quads. My back squat 1rm back in June was 200lbs. Not much i know, but i starting properly working out in February, and i could only squat the bar when i started. So it was progress 


Currently, i can only do 3 days a week as my exams for school are coming up in 2 weeks. 

After exams, my next semester seems to be more work based, i have a lot of courses where i will have a lot of work, but its nothing i couldn't handle.

I can most likely start working 5times a week in February and on. i cannot be 100% sure on that because i have no idea how the work load is going to be in school, and how my work schedule is going to go. 

A positive 3 days for sure 100%, 5 days possibility.

I know its not a definite answer, but i cannot give you a definite answer, you have to understand that i have never taken the courses before so its something new.


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## Ark94 (Jan 14, 2011)

Built, i will follow your advice anything you give to me 

Was talking to my bro and mom and they said i shouldn't lose weight, maybe tone down a bit but i don't need to that much.

Its just a hard decision, i don't want to get overweight, but is it possible for what you have in mind to slowly tone while gaining? You said my softness was fixable, what did you have in mind?

As well, should i change my routine and start a bodybuilding style routine? or keep on doing strength till my lifters are bigger? :S 

^^ that is something i am very confused about, any information would be great.


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## vortrit (Jan 14, 2011)




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## Built (Jan 14, 2011)

vortrit be nice. I don't mind bodyhair, bud - my husband's Hungarian, you are an amateur... 

I'll get back to you shortly with my thoughts - but after exams, could you commit to 4 days a week, at least most weeks - provided the workouts were only about an hour long each?


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## vortrit (Jan 14, 2011)

Built said:


> vortrit be nice. I don't mind bodyhair, bud - my husband's Hungarian, you are an amateur...



It was all meant in fun. Trust me I have way more body hair then the guy in those pictures. My legs are probably about the same but my chest and stomach are way more hairy. 

I was just goofing around Ark and Built. Anyway, I'll let you get back on the topic.


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## Ark94 (Jan 14, 2011)

Built said:


> vortrit be nice. I don't mind bodyhair, bud - my husband's Hungarian, you are an amateur...
> 
> I'll get back to you shortly with my thoughts - but after exams, could you commit to 4 days a week, at least most weeks - provided the workouts were only about an hour long each?



Sorry for the late response, just got back from the gym.

After exams for sure i can commit 4 days. I am down for that. What did you have in mind? And is it possible to answer my strength question to the best of your ability?



> It was all meant in fun. Trust me I have way more body hair then the guy in those pictures. My legs are probably about the same but my chest and stomach are way more hairy.
> 
> I was just goofing around Ark and Built. Anyway, I'll let you get back on the topic.



Haha no worries, i didn't take any offense to it. I always wanted to get rid of hair on my chest and back.


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## Built (Jan 14, 2011)

vortrit, you HAD to know I was pulling your chain!

Ark94, strength training is important - and as the workouts get heavier, you train less and less - but you're not there yet. I'd like to see you doing something like the workout I have in my getting started link in my sig, or Starting Strength - something where you squat, deadlift and bench three times a week. I might even suggest a four-day split after that, but for now, how do you feel about doing my basic workout while you get through exams?


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## Ark94 (Jan 14, 2011)

Built said:


> vortrit, you HAD to know I was pulling your chain!
> 
> Ark94, strength training is important - and as the workouts get heavier, you train less and less - but you're not there yet. I'd like to see you doing something like the workout I have in my getting started link in my sig, or Starting Strength - something where you squat, deadlift and bench three times a week. I might even suggest a four-day split after that, but for now, how do you feel about doing my basic workout while you get through exams?



I had started with Starting Strength when i was first learning how to squat, and deadlift and bench last year. I do not remember how long, but i know i stopped that in June and switched to a custom workout plan that i had made over at gus.
I was doing the 3 times a week squats, and i found it was taking a bit of a toll. Recovery wasn't enough, that is one of the reasons i switched to once a week squatting. But i am willing to give it a shot again and see how it plays out.

I know the form on the major lifts pretty down pat if that was why you had wanted me to start that again.

Are we talking about this workout - 
ttp://builtblog.wikidbody.com/2007/08/03/basic-whole-body-workout/]Got Built? » Basic whole-body workout

I would be willing to do that. If you don't mind me asking, what is the reasoning behind it?

I will start that workout on Monday as well.


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## Built (Jan 14, 2011)

Well, for the next two weeks you're only able to train three times a week, and I'd like you to get in some more volume on the heavy compounds, so do it for two weeks, then we'll switch you over to a four-day for a few months, see how things go, then perhaps back to a strength workout, maybe something like what Gazhole's doing right now. 

Sound good for now?


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## Ark94 (Jan 15, 2011)

Built said:


> Well, for the next two weeks you're only able to train three times a week, and I'd like you to get in some more volume on the heavy compounds, so do it for two weeks, then we'll switch you over to a four-day for a few months, see how things go, then perhaps back to a strength workout, maybe something like what Gazhole's doing right now.
> 
> Sound good for now?




Sounds like a plan. So i was just sorting this out, my routine is going to look like this. Whats *bold* is the exercises choices I'm doing.


Three sets of 5-8 reps. 1-2minute rest between each set.

Workout A: Quads and Hamstrings
A1 ??? Goblet Squats, Back Squats, or *Front Squats*
A2 ??? Romanian Dumbbell Deadlifts, Barbell RDLS, *Off-the-floor deadlifts (conventional?)*

Workout B: Vertical Pull and Push (lats and delts)
B1 ??? *Weight Chins* or Negative Self-assisted Chins
B2 ??? Arnold Presses, Push-presses, or Military Press

Workout C: Horizontal Pull and Push (back and chest)
C1 ??? One arm dumbbell rows or *seated cable rows*
C2 ??? Low incline dumbbell Press, *Barbell Bench Press*, Low Incline Barbell Press

D: Abs
D ??? Bosu ball crunches


How will this routine work? Just want to make sure, you site said it but was a tad bit confused.
Monday ??? A workout
A1 and A2 ( do I do them both the same day?)
D
Wednesday ??? B workout
B1 and B2
D
Friday ??? C workout
C1 and C2
D

20 Minute cardio after each workout. Moderate intensity.


Weights.
Front Squats - 120 x 5 x 3
Deadlifts - 265 x 5 x 3
Weight Chins - 10lbs
Seated Cable Rows - 100 x 5 x 3
Barbell Bench Press - 135 x 5 x 3


Does this look good? Would you change anything?
I'm only still squatting once a week right? or is my layout wrong?


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## Built (Jan 15, 2011)

You do the whole workout each time - a vertical push, a vertical pull, a horizontal push, a horizontal pull, a quad-dominant and a ham-dominant movement, and some optional ab work if you wish, at the end.


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## Ark94 (Jan 15, 2011)

Built said:


> You do the whole workout each time - a vertical push, a vertical pull, a horizontal push, a horizontal pull, a quad-dominant and a ham-dominant movement, and some optional ab work if you wish, at the end.



Oh wow, that is going to be crazy 
I am down for doing that, little question then, since this would probably take at least 2 hours to do.

I always warmup for my lifts, so i will give you two examples:

Front Squats - working set (120 x 5 x 3)
45x5x2
75x3x2
95x3
105x1
110x1

Deadlifts - working set (265 x 5 x 3)
135x5x2
185x3x2
205x3
235x3
245x3


Should i be do that on my workouts for the next two weeks? or just jump straight into 265 for deads?

Reason i am asking because the strength training i used to do before was structured like this.The way you want me to do it is very high volume for the next two weeks, and i just wanted to know how i should structure warmups for each lift.


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## Built (Jan 15, 2011)

The entire workout should take you under an hour. It takes me about forty minutes. For all lifts, pick a weight you can do 5-8 rep sets with, do whatever warmup you need to get to that weight, and then do your sets.


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## Ark94 (Jan 15, 2011)

Built said:


> The entire workout should take you under an hour. It takes me about forty minutes. For all lifts, pick a weight you can do 5-8 rep sets with, do whatever warmup you need to get to that weight, and then do your sets.



Okay i hope so. My training that i was doing before was pretty lazy training 
I would take 5-10minute rests between each set, thats why i thought this would take long. 

My body is definitely going to feel it on the 1-2minute rests


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## Built (Jan 15, 2011)

You can do a set of squats, rest, set of bench, rest, etc like that if you like - it spreads out the time between subsequent sets for the same movement, but keeps your workouts moving along. 

Long rests like you were doing is something you WILL get back to, but for now, you need more volume and more frequency for the major movement patterns - you'll be lifting heavy, believe me. You'll see your strength and your stamina come up pretty quick with this. 

PS switch to back squats for this if you can do them. You'll be able to lift more.


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## Ark94 (Jan 15, 2011)

Built said:


> You can do a set of squats, rest, set of bench, rest, etc like that if you like - it spreads out the time between subsequent sets for the same movement, but keeps your workouts moving along.
> 
> Long rests like you were doing is something you WILL get back to, but for now, you need more volume and more frequency for the major movement patterns - you'll be lifting heavy, believe me. You'll see your strength and your stamina come up pretty quick with this.
> 
> PS switch to back squats for this if you can do them. You'll be able to lift more.



All sounds good. My gym isn't the best to be around in multiple places at once using equipment.

I am fine with not having long rests, it made me feel lazy 

And i was going to ask you about the back squats, i will get back into them. I have no idea what weight i can do though for working sets now, since it has been over 6months since i have done them. May be sloppy


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## Built (Jan 16, 2011)

My money is on them being nice and strong. I did front squats exclusively for three years before returning to back squats. 

Front squats fixed my back-squat form.


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## kalles (Jan 16, 2011)

Ark94 said:


> know this sounds silly, especially when you look at a video of me. But my BF is just not healthy for me, and I want to lose some of it to a desired BF that I am happy with. No cutting bulking nonsense, I want to lose it slowly once, then eat healthy and right from then on and gain LBM.
> 
> My stats:
> 
> ...



hey, u should try a low-carb diet but with a carb spike up post workout, it worked great for me tho. gl


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## hagaroids (Jan 16, 2011)

body hair FTMFW- you are an animal OP- get pumped!


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## Ark94 (Jan 18, 2011)

loved the workout!!!!! it was very tough switching to short rests, but i was surprised i could do it! And it was really fun, but for some reason it took me 2 hours. Around an hour 40minutes for the workout, and then 20minutes of the cardio.

I took 1-2minutes rest between each set, was weird it took me this long, didn't mind because once I'm in the gym i won't leave till I'm done, but Built had said it would take 40minutes.

Here is what i did:
(weight x reps x sets)

Back Squats (had no idea what weight i could do, so worked up to weight)
95x4
115x3
135x3
155 x 5 x 3

Deadlifts
135x5
195x3
205x2
225x1
235x1
255 x 5  x 3

Weight Pull-ups - 5lbs    ( messed this up, was suppose to do chin ups)
5lbs x 5 x 3

Military Press 
45x5
65x3
75x2
85x1
100 x 5 x 3

Seated Cable Rows
80 x 7 x 3

Barbell Bench Press
45x5
95x3
115x2
135 x 5 x 3

Bosu Ball Crunches
10lb x 6, 10lb x 8, 10lb x 7

20 Minute Low Intesity Cardio
Incline: 2.0 
Speed: 3.6 mph   
^^ (for 10 minutes)
Incline: 3.0
Speed: 3.6 mph 
^^ (for 10 minutes)


felt like i was walking on air after the treadmill 




LOVED THE WORKOUT!!!


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## Built (Jan 18, 2011)

Sorry it took you so long - but glad you liked it.


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## Ark94 (Jan 18, 2011)

Built said:


> Sorry it took you so long - but glad you liked it.



Oh don't be sorry built! it was an awesome workout, i don't care if it took my 1 hour, or 5hours


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## Built (Jan 18, 2011)

I do. Your workout shouldn't take you that long. The work sets should take you about thirty-fifty seconds each, and there are 21 of them in the workout. If you rest two minutes after each set, that's still about an hour. That being said, if you like to chat a bit at the gym and take longer rests, your workout will draw out longer and I remain unconvinced this is a bad thing. Sometimes it's good to hustle a bit, sometimes I like to relax and enjoy the process.


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## Ark94 (Jan 18, 2011)

Built said:


> I do. Your workout shouldn't take you that long. The work sets should take you about thirty-fifty seconds each, and there are 21 of them in the workout. If you rest two minutes after each set, that's still about an hour. That being said, if you like to chat a bit at the gym and take longer rests, your workout will draw out longer and I remain unconvinced this is a bad thing. Sometimes it's good to hustle a bit, sometimes I like to relax and enjoy the process.



Oh, well i honestly cannot say why it took so long.
I don't have ANY friends at this gym. I switched from a gym where i went to, i knew everybody there and my workouts would always go off task, to a gym where i know NOBODY, and i am straight focused on my workouts only.

Only reason i can think it took so long was during deadlifts. There was a guy working deadlifts in front of me, and we would rotate, but sometimes i would take 2minutes rest, be ready to go and he jumps onto his bar and does a set. Then i would have to wait till he was done and jump into my set.

Reason i couldn't deadlift same time as himis because my ass would be in his face 

Plus it was a monday and was quite busy, so i did have to wait for some racks. Wednesdays and friday's die down quite a bit 

Can't wait till February/march!!! all the new years resolution people will be gone by then


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## Ark94 (Jan 18, 2011)

Just calculated it, and i have 43 sets. So double your one hour estimation 

It was weird though, i took maybe a minute rest between warmup sets, then 2minutes rest before my working set. Then i would hop right into it.

Wednesdays workout i will do 30second rest between warmups, or even less (whatever time it takes to put on the additional weight). Then 1-2minutes rest between working sets.

I'll let you know how it goes  shouldn't go longer than 1:30 including cardio i would guess.


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## Built (Jan 18, 2011)

Why 41 sets?

7 exercises, 3 sets per exercise, that's 21 sets. 

What am I missing?


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## Ark94 (Jan 18, 2011)

Built said:


> Why 41 sets?
> 
> 7 exercises, 3 sets per exercise, that's 21 sets.
> 
> What am I missing?



You got 7 exercises, and 3 sets per exercise. That is only the working sets.

Add on the warm ups i did, and thats 41. Unless i did something wrong.


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## Built (Jan 18, 2011)

You didn't - but I don't think I do as many warmup sets as you do. I don't think I lift as heavy as you, either (except for squats!) - if you're okay with a long-ish workout and you feel good for now, it ain't broke so don't fix it.


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## Ark94 (Jan 18, 2011)

Built said:


> You didn't - but I don't think I do as many warmup sets as you do. I don't think I lift as heavy as you, either (except for squats!) - if you're okay with a long-ish workout and you feel good for now, it ain't broke so don't fix it.



Ha. I don't lift heavy at all  I'm a little pussy when it comes to weights 
But i got to stop comparing myself to guys that have been working out longer than me and who can squat like 300-400 pounds. 



> I don't think I do as many warmup sets as you do



Well, i am not even sure if i SHOULD be doing that many warmup sets.
At my previous training with gustrength, the always told me to warmup like mad because it helps prevent injuries. and there theory was if i was going to do a working set of 255x5x3 for deadlifts i should warmup like:

135 x 5 x 2 (gets your body warmup up, joints ready)
185 x 3 x 2 (working up a load, warming up your body)
205 x 3 (body realizes your lifting heavier, getting prepared for working set)
225 x 1 (body sees your lifting heavy, getting joints ready for working set)
235 x 1

That was there theory to an extent. I truly have no idea how i should warm-up for a lift, so thats what i go by.

I also always do mobility drills before any workout to get my body loose.


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## Marat (Jan 18, 2011)

Ark94 said:


> At my previous training with gustrength, the always told me to warmup like mad because it helps prevent injuries.



...it also will wear you out. You'll be tired before you get to your work sets. 

You mentioned mobility drills -- that's a good thing. I'm a fan of Joe DeFranco's Agile Eight. Scroll down a bit and you'll find that -- I'm a fan of that as my warmup.

To get ready for your major lifts (squat, deadlift, bench, press, olympic lifts, etc.) I'm a fan of the protocol that is recommended by Jim Wendler:

The percentages refer to a percentage of your 1 Rep Maximum. 

1x5 at 40% 
	1x5 at 50% 
	1x3 at 60%​
For instance, if your approximate max deadlift is about 350 pounds, you would do a set of 5 at about 140 pounds, a set of 5 at about 175 pounds and then a set of 3 at about 210 pounds. 

After that, you're ready to go on to your work sets.


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## Ark94 (Jan 19, 2011)

Marat said:


> ...it also will wear you out. You'll be tired before you get to your work sets.
> 
> You mentioned mobility drills -- that's a good thing. I'm a fan of Joe DeFranco's Agile Eight. Scroll down a bit and you'll find that -- I'm a fan of that as my warmup.
> 
> ...



You're right about it wearing me out, its quite the volume just for warmups.

Will definitely have to check out that link! 
Tonight going to be following that format for warmups and see how it goes  

Appreciate the post, helped me figure out my warmups better.


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## Built (Jan 19, 2011)

FWIW, I don't warm up for every lift. For instance, if I just did bench, I won't warm up for rows. Hell, I never warm up for rows - I'll often start with rows because they warm me up for pressing. 

I warm up for squats, but I may not bother warming up for deads if I just did my squats since I'm already warm. It depents what I'm doing. If I'm doing low-rep work on just a few lifts, I'll do warmups for those lifts. For a workout like this one, I'll do some sort of dynamic warmup, then just go right into my lifts. 

You'll have to judge by how you know your own body, but your warmups seem excessive for the weights you're doing and for this type of workout.


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## Ark94 (Jan 19, 2011)

Built said:


> FWIW, I don't warm up for every lift. For instance, if I just did bench, I won't warm up for rows. Hell, I never warm up for rows - I'll often start with rows because they warm me up for pressing.
> 
> I warm up for squats, but I may not bother warming up for deads if I just did my squats since I'm already warm. It depents what I'm doing. If I'm doing low-rep work on just a few lifts, I'll do warmups for those lifts. For a workout like this one, I'll do some sort of dynamic warmup, then just go right into my lifts.
> 
> *You'll have to judge by how you know your own body, but your warmups seem excessive for the weights you're doing and for this type of workout. *



The bolded is my biggest problem. I don't want to do anything wrong, so i have never listened to my body, i have listened to what other people told me to do. For example, one question i have:

deadlifts. i did 255x5x3 Monday. It was good, form was good, not really hard. 
Today deadlifts were very tough, could barely get 255x5 for 1 set, and my form would suffer. Now, i know my body could not handle it, but i kept on doing 255, i thought if i lowered the weight i would have done it wrong and not gotten benefits from it. Was i wrong in continuing on doing 255? should i have listened to my body and just done a lower weight for the remaining sets? Thats what my body was telling me to do.

Other than that, the workout was awesome! the weights were tough, but it was definitely a good workout! 

It didn't take that long either!!! It took 1 hour for the workout itself (minus chinups, couldn't get use of the chinup bar), then 20minutes of cardio at the end. But definitely a fun workout.



> FWIW



Its not coming to me, what does that mean? 



I hope you don't mind all the questions. I just want to help myself gain better knowledge about this all, and to learn what to do better.


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## Ark94 (Jan 24, 2011)

Workouts have been great, i "listened" to my body on friday and ended up doing lower weight, but at 8 reps for certain exercises. 


As far as my end workout goes, should i be just walking? or jogging? 

And how is my dieting going to look like?


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## Built (Jan 24, 2011)

Ark94 said:


> Workouts have been great, i "listened" to my body on friday and ended up doing lower weight, but at 8 reps for certain exercises.


 




Ark94 said:


> As far as my end workout goes, should i be just walking? or jogging?
> And how is my dieting going to look like?


 
Walking is fine. We'll talk diet in a bit.


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## Ark94 (Jan 24, 2011)

Built said:


> Walking is fine. We'll talk diet in a bit.



Sounds good. I have been walking, but it just came up with my cousin that i should at least jog, so i wanted to clarify.


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## Ark94 (Jan 28, 2011)

Sweet. My hardest exam is done! I have english on monday (which i don't have to study for).

I am prepared to get this training/dieting in order 

I don't go back to school till Thursday. 

What are the plans Built?


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## Built (Jan 28, 2011)

Well, let's see. 

What weights are you pushing around these days, what macros are you running and how much do you weigh? How many days a week do you want to train from this point forward?


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## Ark94 (Jan 29, 2011)

> What weights are you pushing around these days, what macros are you running and how much do you weigh? How many days a week do you want to train from this point forward?



Here is my Macro breakdown:
Calories: 3763
Protein: 285.2g
Fat: 163.6g
Carbs: 300.5g

Weights:
Deadlifts - 255 x 6 x 3
Back Squat - 155 x 6 x 3 or 140 x 8 x 3 or 135 x 12 x 3
Bench Press - 135 x 8 x 3
Inc. DB Press - 50 x 9 x 3
Military Press - 100 x 5 x 3
Cable Rows - 95 x 12 x 3
Pull-ups - 10lb x 5 x 3

What i weigh:
182.0 - 184.0 (afternoon weigh in)

How many days a week?
3 days (safe guaranteed training days)

After the first month of my new semester, i might be able to do 4 days, it depends on my homework load.


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## malfeasance (Jan 29, 2011)

Built,

I think it is awesome that you are taking so much quality time to help somebody who is so eager to learn.  I wish there had been somebody like that to help me out when I was that age.


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## Built (Jan 29, 2011)

Excellent. Are you making progress? What do you want to accomplish for this next period of your training?


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## Ark94 (Jan 29, 2011)

Built said:


> Excellent. Are you making progress? What do you want to accomplish for this next period of your training?



Am i making progress?
Yes and no. 
Yes in terms of strength.
No in terms of mass gain.

What do i want to accomplish?
I want to add some serious mass to my body.
I want to get bigger legs, an upper chest, and size to my arms.


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## Ark94 (Jan 29, 2011)

malfeasance said:


> Built,
> 
> I think it is awesome that you are taking so much quality time to help somebody who is so eager to learn.  I wish there had been somebody like that to help me out when I was that age.



I appreciate all the help Built is giving me too!
You don't come around people who are willing to do that too often.


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## Built (Jan 30, 2011)

Ark94 said:


> Am i making progress?
> Yes and no.
> Yes in terms of strength.
> No in terms of mass gain.
> ...



Okay - start increasing your food. Do some modest cardio on rest days. How many days a week can you train now, and for how long?


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## Ark94 (Jan 30, 2011)

Built said:


> Okay - start increasing your food. Do some modest cardio on rest days. How many days a week can you train now, and for how long?



Already stated that but in case you missed it 



> How many days a week?
> 3 days (safe guaranteed training days)



I may be able to train 4 days, it depends on my new semester and work load. i should be able to tell in 2 weeks time if my new semester is tough or not.

What sort of cardio on rest days? Normal walking?

Not sure if you remember or not, but you had me doing the Full Body workout for the last 2 weeks because we were going to design something after my exams, then create a good meal plan for me.


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## Built (Jan 30, 2011)

Oh, I remember you were going through exams - there's nothing magical to the "design" part though. We'll get you to focus on quads, pecs and arms. 

*Day 1*
5x5 squats
3x8 squats (front squats would be ideal here)
3 supersets: sissy squats 8-12 reps; then do the top half of leg extensions 8-12 reps; then rest (that's one superset).

5x5 low incline bench press
3x8 low incline dumbbell press
3 supersets: 8-12 rep dips with 8-12 rep pec dec, dumbbell flyes or cable flyes.

baby got biceps

*Day 2*
3x5 squats
3x8 front squats 
3x8-12 single-leg leg-presses

3x5 low incline bench press
3x8 low incline dumbbell press
3x12 close-grip bench press OR skullcrushers

baby got biceps - reduce the volume for this second day. Do only 3x5 instead of 5x5, and only do 2 supersets

Standing calf raises, do a few sets in between any of the upper body work as desired on days 1 and 2 workouts
*
Day 3*: rest

*Day 4:*
5x5 deadlifts
3x8 Romanian deadlifts
Got Built? » The Shoulders of Giants
3x8-12 unsupported t-bar rows OR heavy one-arm dumbbell rows
Seated calves, 3-5 sets of 12-20 reps, tucked between sets of your other work
Abs as desired, weighted sets

*Day 5, Day 6, Day 7:*
If you can do another workout in here, do the "full body" you've been doing, just 3x8-12 for each movement, not too heavy.
Get at least one full day of rest each week. 
You could do some moderate cardio whenever you like on rest days. Post workout, you could do 20-minutes of cycling, fast incline walking or jogging as desired. 

Eat enough to gain about 5 lbs a month. Do this for the semester, or until you get too fat, whichever comes first.


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## Ark94 (Jan 31, 2011)

Built said:


> Oh, I remember you were going through exams - there's nothing magical to the "design" part though. We'll get you to focus on quads, pecs and arms.
> 
> *Day 1*
> 5x5 squats
> ...




Awesome workout plan Built! looks good.

Few questions if you don't mind.

On day 2, its a reduced volume right, and you tell me to do 2 super sets, rather than 3.
What am i supersetting?

Just to be sure, i am doing Back Squats first, then Front Squats.


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## Built (Jan 31, 2011)

The two exercises that follow "supersets:" - that's what you are to superset. 

Back squats first, correct.


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## Ark94 (Feb 3, 2011)

well built, its been a pain in the ass. Haven't hit the gym since monday. Even though my back squat form has improved so much, one thing has stayed and that is my gm'ing out of the hole. I didn't think i was doing it much, but i need to work on keeping up my chest.

Now i have had back pain, it may not be from squatting, could be from shoveling a lot of snow but either way i don't want to aggravate it anymore. It was pretty bad earlier this week, but it has calmed down a little bit. Going to give it till monday and be right back into the weights!


Btw, should i start a workou log rather than keep on posting in this?


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## Built (Feb 3, 2011)

You can keep posting it here. I'll move it to gym logs for you. Sorry about your back. Get it looked at.


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## Ark94 (Feb 8, 2011)

Well Built, i have most likely found that my back pains are coming from shoveling snow, maybe slightly from squatting but not as much. I shovel a lot of snow several times a week at my work, and my lower back really starts to hurt severely to the point where i can barely stand straight. It will pass over after a while, but it is still there.

So, my parents did not let me go to the gym last night. Not just because of my back, but they think its also from the Accutane im on. I have been having stomach pains out of the blue, and they don't want me doing anything to myself at the gym. I may even go off Accutane as well, and i have only been on it for a week lol.


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## Built (Feb 8, 2011)

Damn. Well, keep us posted. Accutane's nasty shit. Feel better.


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## Ark94 (Feb 8, 2011)

Built said:


> Damn. Well, keep us posted. Accutane's nasty shit. Feel better.



It is brutal stuff. I think my doctor is stupid though cause he got me started on double the highest dose...

Have you ever done accutane?

I'm going to hit the gym no matterwhat tonight. I loved the pump I got last week and I miss the workout!!!

I knots this next question is quite debatable, but does the pump actually stimulate the muscle growth more?


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