# Smith Machine question



## Goodfella9783 (Jan 9, 2009)

I'm thinking about picking up a used one on Craigslist for when I want to do certain exercises at home like bench press when I don't have a spot.

I've noticed that some Smith machines are constructed so the rods holding the Olympic bar are angled slightly towards the backside of the machine while others are constructed so the rods are perfectly vertical.

My question is this: For the machines built with the rods angled, will the bar still lift straight up? One would think that if the rods are angled, the bar will lift at an angle right? 

I'll find pics and add them to the thread shortly.


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## Hench (Jan 9, 2009)

The only way I would have on is if it were free. Why dont you spend the money on a gym membership?


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 9, 2009)

On this particular one you can see the angle of the rod which the website describes as "Precise 7° angle Smith Machine combined with 7° angle freeweight barbell workout center designed for natural upper and lower body exercise movements."

"The 7 degree angle was designed to allow natural upper and lower body movements for precise chest and gluteal biomechanics"


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 9, 2009)

Moondogg said:


> The only way I would have on is if it were free. Why dont you spend the money on a gym membership?


 
Convenience. I have 4-5 gyms in close proximity to my home. The Gold's is $50+ per month and is a pretty small building that gets PACKED at times that I go to the gym. The other gyms just aren't up to par in my opinion and also get way too crowded. I prefer working out alone most of the time as opposed to the headaches the gym causes me. 

Now back to the Smith Machine.


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## Hench (Jan 9, 2009)

Goodfella9783 said:


> Convenience. I have 4-5 gyms in close proximity to my home. The Gold's is $50+ per month and is a pretty small building that gets PACKED at times that I go to the gym. The other gyms just aren't up to par in my opinion and also get way too crowded. I prefer working out alone most of the time as opposed to the headaches the gym causes me.
> 
> Now back to the Smith Machine.



The fact that you have over 4000 posts and are still wanting to buy a smith machine worries me. And dont come off with some bull about not having a spot, when i dont have a spot i just use DB and if I feel the need to drop them (which I dont 99% of the time) i can easily do so by lowering them back down to my chest and then just drop them on the floor. Apart from a few exercises such as pullups and rack pulls, smith machines are shit, period.


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 9, 2009)

Moondogg said:


> The fact that you have over 4000 posts and are still wanting to buy a smith machine worries me.


 


Go bug someone else troll.

I was looking for an insightful opinion from one of the board's knowledgable members like Funk, Cowpimp, Kelju, Rob, etc. If you're gonna call a machine and/or exercise "shit" at least back it up. I know plenty of people who occasionally use a smith for militaries and bench. Seems to do them no harm.

Drop the "smith machine is a good coat rack" act ya newb. It's tired.


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## largepkg (Jan 9, 2009)

Well obviously if the slide rods are at an angle then the plain of motion will be at this same angle. My brother in law has almost the identical one you posted. 

I don't see the point of a smith machine though. They restrict your natural plain of motion and for me that hurts my shoulders.


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## Gazhole (Jan 9, 2009)

Goodfella9783 said:


> Go bug someone else troll.
> 
> I was looking for an insightful opinion from one of the board's knowledgable members like Funk, Cowpimp, Kelju, Rob, etc. If you're gonna call a machine and/or exercise "shit" at least back it up. I know plenty of people who occasionally use a smith for militaries and bench. Seems to do them no harm.
> 
> Drop the "smith machine is a good coat rack" act ya newb. It's tired.



He actually gave good advice.

The smith machine is a waste of metal, all those members you mentioned will tell you the same.

It restricts range of motion, forces you to perform a movement which is unnatural and restrictive, and like all machines it promotes poor everyday posture and performance due to the lack of stabilizing musculature recruitment.

And for all that you have to pay through the teeth.

Better spend your money on a power rack - you can bench, squat, and row at LEAST in one of those. If you get one with the option of adding those pins through the sides to rest the bar on, you dont even need a spot.

Bodymax CF375 Power Rack - Powerhouse Fitness

For example.


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 9, 2009)

largepkg said:


> Well obviously if the slide rods are at an angle then the plain of motion will be at this same angle. My brother in law has almost the identical one you posted.


 
Does this mean the manufacturer probably had squatting in mind when designing it because they realized normal Smith machines restrict the natural ROM? 

I would never squat in a Smith machine, but benching here and there on a Smith in addition to dumbbells and barbells doesn't seem like it would restrict the natural ROM as much as say squatting in a Smith would.




Gazhole said:


> He actually gave good advice.
> 
> The smith machine is a waste of metal, all those members you mentioned will tell you the same.


 
Having a machine I can scoop up for 200-300 in which I can do Calf raises, pull-ups, push-ups, CG Bench, lunges, and possibly bench press (in addition to all my free weight work) isn't a waste of metal in my opinion.



			
				Gazhole said:
			
		

> It restricts range of motion,


 
Even for bench pressing though. I understand that it absolutely restricts range of motion for squatting. For bench pressing it seemes different. When I BP with a BB, I grab the bar and push it straight up. It seems like an identical movement as the smith except the smith keeps the bar lined up throughout the movement. I'm not saying your wrong and I'm right, I just wonder how the smith bar going straight up and down is different than a Barbell going straight up in down?

Would smith benching in addition to free weight bench pressing hurt?

Also, in my original question all I wanted was someone to compare simply bench pressing on a traditional Smith as opposed to one of the angled ones as companies state the angled ones conform to natural ROM (or did they just attempt to mean for squatting)?


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 9, 2009)

"The issue with benching is that the shoulder joint stabilizes the upper arm during the movement, and sometimes the weight may suddenly shift towards your head which results in rotation and possible injury/tear to the rotator cuff. The smith will lock the bar into a plane of motion that does not allow this rotation."


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## Malcom (Jan 9, 2009)

it depends on how much it  cost, i would love to have one at home as well as a gym membership


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## HialeahChico305 (Jan 9, 2009)

Goodfella9783 said:


> I'm thinking about picking up a used one on Craigslist for when I want to do certain exercises at home like bench press when I don't have a spot.



Dude rethink your decision and invest your money on a good set of dumbells. Your muscles will thank you later.


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## Malcom (Jan 9, 2009)

dude a smith machine is long lasting, he could sell it later if he wants too


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## HialeahChico305 (Jan 9, 2009)

Malcom said:


> dude a smith machine is long lasting, he could sell it later if he wants too



yea the problem is finding a buyer


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## HialeahChico305 (Jan 9, 2009)

all jokes aside smith machine do nothing for me, I cant speak for anybody else but for me dumbells+good form are the key for success in muscle building.


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## Malcom (Jan 9, 2009)

i buy it off him lol, but for real, its not all the time that u have the time to go to the gym, a smith machine with decent weights on, he could stay at home and have great workout, i have a set of dumbbells barbell myself home, it comes handy at times. am looking for a smith machine too, the problem is, could he afford it? if yes why not. its no different to buying a car or a scouter or something similar, buy ur smith if u can afford it


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## lucifuge (Jan 9, 2009)

I own a 7 degree smith and I bought it for exactly the same reason you're considering one... I used it religiously for about a year.
Here's my opinion: *It sucks.*
Getting the bench placed correctly is a complete pain in the ass. 
...anyway, I used the smith for about a year and managed to bench over 300 for the first time on it, however, I also managed to permanently damage my shoulders in the process. 
 That was over 4 years ago, since then I bought a power rack and I only use the smith for standing calf raises. 
Power Rack System - Powertec Home Fitness Equipment
 This is the one I have (I have the simple, bare bones version in the small pic) and I simply love it. It even has dip bars.


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## camarosuper6 (Jan 9, 2009)

'I dont care what some so called "experts" say about a smith machine, I enjoy using it and have for most of my bodybuilding life.

Not saying that free weights do not offer an advantage that a smith cannot provide, but sometimes in our training, and especially in the type I have used for years, there comes a point when I would rather push myself a few extra reps with the safety of a smith, than attempt it with a free weight movement and risk hurting myself.

You will hear arguments all day about how awful and terrible a smith machine is, and granted if you are a newb or even intermediate level bodybuilder, you should by far incorporate free weights whenever possible.

But for advanced trainees who understand their bodies, and various aspects of training protocol, the Smith can be very useful.

I use it regularly, and enjoy it very much.

Just my two cents.


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## Hench (Jan 9, 2009)

Goodfella9783 said:


> Go bug someone else troll.
> 
> I was looking for an insightful opinion from one of the board's knowledgable members like Funk, Cowpimp, Kelju, Rob, etc. If you're gonna call a machine and/or exercise "shit" at least back it up. I know plenty of people who occasionally use a smith for militaries and bench. Seems to do them no harm.
> 
> Drop the "smith machine is a good coat rack" act ya newb. It's tired.



Why do you call me a troll? Because i dont have a post count of 2K? Ive been on here damm near every single day since i joined, but i dont normally reply to threads like this, where im going to get a defensive reply from some moron who doenst know what there talking about. 

I dont recall being cheeky or offensive in my reply, I gave a sensible answer in a nice way, any you reply with this? Go fuck yourself. Sorry I wasted my time trying to help you. Back it up? The fact that I didnt feel like copying and pasting some reasons from google means nothing. Anyone with an internet connection can tell you about a smith machine, and if you know so much about the subject of shoulder stability why are you asking questions about it in the first place? 

Newb? Im 6' 1'' 206lbs at just over 10%, afraid I dont know many newbs with stats like that. As Gaz said (btw cheers Gaz) any of the more experienced members of the board will say the same thing as I did, so I dont see your problem. You want a smith machine be my guest, dont worry I wont be posting my 'newb' posts in your threads anymore.


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## camarosuper6 (Jan 9, 2009)

Moondogg said:


> Why do you call me a troll? Because i dont have a post count of 2K? Ive been on here damm near every single day since i joined, but i dont normally reply to threads like this, where im going to get a defensive reply from some moron who doenst know what there talking about.
> 
> I dont recall being cheeky or offensive in my reply, I gave a sensible answer in a nice way, any you reply with this? Go fuck yourself. Sorry I wasted my time trying to help you. Back it up? The fact that I didnt feel like copying and pasting some reasons from google means nothing. Anyone with an internet connection can tell you about a smith machine, and if you know so much about the subject of shoulder stability why are you asking questions about it in the first place?
> 
> Newb? Im 6' 1'' 206lbs at just over 10%, afraid I dont know many newbs with stats like that. As Gaz said (btw cheers Gaz) any of the more experienced members of the board will say the same thing as I did, so I dont see your problem. You want a smith machine be my guest, dont worry I wont be posting my 'newb' posts in your threads anymore.



Im a pretty experienced member of this board, and I like the Smith.


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 9, 2009)

Moondogg said:


> Why do you call me a troll?


 
The fact that you immediately brought up me having 4000 posts and asking about the Smith Machine "worrying you" made you come off as a troll. WTF does posts on IM have anything to do with my original question? Unless you don't have anything constructive to add to the subject, don't bother.

I was wondering the difference between angled smith machines and 90 degree smith machines. And you bring up how many posts I have?


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 9, 2009)

lucifuge said:


> I own a 7 degree smith and I bought it for exactly the same reason you're considering one... I used it religiously for about a year.
> Here's my opinion: *It sucks.*
> Getting the bench placed correctly is a complete pain in the ass.
> ...anyway, I used the smith for about a year and managed to bench over 300 for the first time on it, however, I also managed to permanently damage my shoulders in the process.
> ...


 
Thanks for the reply! Do you think the fact that you used it religiously was the problem? Also, I'm curious as to how you injured your shoulder... one would think that your shoulders would be safe during the bench press on a smith machine because it takes away from the possibility of the barbell falling too far behind your head and injuring the rotator.


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 9, 2009)

camarosuper6 said:


> 'I dont care what some so called "experts" say about a smith machine, I enjoy using it and have for most of my bodybuilding life.
> 
> Not saying that free weights do not offer an advantage that a smith cannot provide, but sometimes in our training, and especially in the type I have used for years, there comes a point when I would rather push myself a few extra reps with the safety of a smith, than attempt it with a free weight movement and risk hurting myself.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks Camaro. Seems like it's difficult to mention the words 'smith' and 'machine' in the same sentence on these boards without being condemned. Especially with no specific reasoning as to why the machine is so looked down upon. Glad I could find someone to admit that they use it and benefit from it.

What are your thoughts on the angled smith vs. traiditional 90 degree smith regarding the bench press? Would the angled smith like i posted a pic of create a vulnerable position on the shoulders during a bench? the common info on these smiths say that the 7 degree angle creates a more natural body movement for upper and lower body exercises.


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## Merkaba (Jan 9, 2009)

Fuck a smith machine!  The body Can't move in Straight lines and youre using the machine and the bars and slides for your support and not your support muscles in their appropriate proportion to the movement.  Its a bad form trap as well cause it cases you in and lets you get away with anything, including any kind of fucking crap ass vertebrae loading squat configuration you can think of.  If I had one for free I'd give it away.  I say no multijoint movements should be done in a smith.  I use the one at my gym for heavy calf raises and thats it.  Fuck hey its your money though.  I agree, take that money and spend it on good food and a good set of dumbbells.


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## lucifuge (Jan 9, 2009)

Goodfella9783 said:


> Thanks for the reply! Do you think the fact that you used it religiously was the problem? Also, I'm curious as to how you injured your shoulder... one would think that your shoulders would be safe during the bench press on a smith machine because it takes away from the possibility of the barbell falling too far behind your head and injuring the rotator.



I have a theory about what caused the shoulder injury (I say theory because the doctor didn't seem to have a clue. He said it was either a minor rotator tear or an impingement and then tried to give me a cortisol injection)

Like I said, I had worked my up to 315, and ( I didn't think about this until _after_ I was hurt ) the bar on the smith machine bows slightly just like a regular barbell. My theory is that since the bar moves in a direct line on the guide rods, when the bar began to bow it also began to bind on the guide rods which caused a load imbalance. That imbalance caused the injury.
I know that even now when I get heavy on the calf raises (around 275ish) the bar starts to bind. Sometimes to the point that it lifts the guide rails a fraction of an inch.
 If you really want one go for it, you just gotta be careful... however, I still think you'd be *much* happier and better off with a good old fashioned power rack.


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## Built (Jan 10, 2009)

<rubs injured right shoulder pensively>

Personally, I won't do any type of pressing on a machine - outside of depletion workouts I really can't see the point. For heavy work, you DON'T want something protecting your ROM - for one, if you use it to build up the weight you push, you won't build the stabilizers you'll actually need for ANY other type of lifting. For another, there's something Paul Chek calls "pattern overload" - it's TOO stable, there's no tiny fluctuations in the the movement at all. 

Personally, I'm too old to train wrong. I'd get hurt if I trained on machines. 

My .02


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 10, 2009)

lucifuge said:


> Like I said, I had worked my up to 315, and ( I didn't think about this until _after_ I was hurt ) the bar on the smith machine bows slightly just like a regular barbell. My theory is that since the bar moves in a direct line on the guide rods, when the bar began to bow it also began to bind on the guide rods which caused a load imbalance. That imbalance caused the injury.


 
That's a great point. Never thought about the heavy weight effect on a smith machine bar. You might be right on the money with that theory.


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 10, 2009)

Merkaba said:


> Fuck a smith machine! The body Can't move in Straight lines and youre using the machine and the bars and slides for your support and not your support muscles in their appropriate proportion to the movement.


 
I understand this for squatting but I'm having a more difficult time understanding it for bench pressing. Because when I bench I literally lift the bar off of the pins and then press straight up and straight down, or that's how I'm picturing it at least. I'm thinking that the only limitation of the smith is that I don't have to stabilize the bar using my shoulder muscles, which doesn't necessarily seem like a bad thing especially if free weights are my top priority.


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## largepkg (Jan 10, 2009)

Goodfella9783 said:


> I understand this for squatting but I'm having a more difficult time understanding it for bench pressing. Because when I bench I literally lift the bar off of the pins and then press straight up and straight down, or that's how I'm picturing it at least. I'm thinking that the only limitation of the smith is that I don't have to stabilize the bar using my shoulder muscles, which doesn't necessarily seem like a bad thing especially if free weights are my top priority.



That's the problem. You THINK you're pressing straight up and in one plain of motion. This simply isn't the case. When you BB or DB press there are natural minor variants of movement. You're restricting those movements with the smith along with getting zero stabilizing effects.

I don't train at home nor do I train with a partner. If I was to use max effort on BB bench I would have no issue just dumping the weight if I was too fatigued to rack it.


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## Merkaba (Jan 10, 2009)

Goodfella9783 said:


> I understand this for squatting but I'm having a more difficult time understanding it for bench pressing. Because when I bench I literally lift the bar off of the pins and then press straight up and straight down, or that's how I'm picturing it at least. I'm thinking that the only limitation of the smith is that I don't have to stabilize the bar using my shoulder muscles, which doesn't necessarily seem like a bad thing especially if free weights are my top priority.



read what Built posted.


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## Gazhole (Jan 10, 2009)

Goodfella - have a search in the training section, there have been a load of informative threads about this before, they're well worth a read for an informed decision either way


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## RasPlasch (Jan 10, 2009)

Oh no not the whats better smith machine or free weights argument again!!


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## Goodfella9783 (Jan 16, 2009)

RasPlasch said:


> Oh no not the whats better smith machine or free weights argument again!!


 
Who said that was the argument?


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## Ngordyn (Jan 16, 2009)

you probably do not lift your bench in a straight line , if you are then i bet that you can raise your 1 rm just by changing it slightly , most body builders do not worry about this because they're goal is not strength but size and the techniques are different  from a power lifting bench where you want the maximum amount of power , the smith machine will NOT allow you to perform the  bench for max strength.


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