# sustaining the "pump" ?



## Genetic Freak (Mar 15, 2003)

Hye guys is there a suppliment that can make the "pump" when ya get it last longer after ya have finished your workout?


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## Pepper (Mar 15, 2003)

N02 Hemodilator

The reviews on this site have not been good, but one thing that I personally have experienced is the "perpetual pump" that it advertises. I don't buy it anymore b/c it is ridiculously overpriced.


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## Arnold (Mar 15, 2003)

There is a supplement called NO2 that makes this claim, but from what I have read it's a crock.

Creatine & Glutamine both enhance muslce cell volume (water inside of cells), which can make your muscles fuller. (these 2 supps actually have real science behind them!) 

You do realize that a pump is not an indication of a good or successful work-out, right? From a physiological perspective getting a pump has no effect on muscle hypertrophy.


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## Pepper (Mar 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> 
> 
> You do realize that a pump is not an indication of a good or successful work-out, right? From a physiological perspective getting a pump has no effect on muscle hypertrophy.




This is exactly why I don't buy NO2, it is too expensive for a product that makes you look bigger w/o helping you get bigger.

I do think that NO2 does deliver the pump, but I have seen no evidence that it helps add size. I'll stick with Creatine.

(I have used 2 bottles, so not exactly a long track record)


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## Mudge (Mar 15, 2003)

Dianabol, which is illegal, and is still only going to last for a few hours, not days. So I'm guessing the answer for legal supplements, is no.


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## MeanCuts (Mar 16, 2003)

synthol


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## Mudge (Mar 18, 2003)

didn't think of that one.


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## Lightman009 (Mar 18, 2003)

Creatine, I prefer cell-tech, you wake up with a pump.


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## MeanCuts (Mar 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Lightman009 *_
> Creatine, I prefer cell-tech, you wake up with a pump.



Yeah and you wake up with a lighter wallet also


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## Arnold (Mar 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> Creatine & Glutamine both enhance muslce cell volume (water inside of cells), which can make your muscles fuller. (these 2 supps actually have real science behind them!)


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## PulsatingArt (Mar 18, 2003)

Trac by MHP supposedly is a creatine with Nitric Oxide in it, claims to have pumps all day.  I just ordered some so I'll let you know.


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## Lightman009 (Mar 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by MeanCuts *_
> Yeah and you wake up with a lighter wallet also


Money well spent.


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## MeanCuts (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Lightman009 *_
> Money well spent.



Have you tried other creatine products?If so you really believe that the creatine in cell-tech is somehow better than the others?


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## MeanCuts (Mar 19, 2003)

Q: Does having a pump make your muscles grow?
A: No
i'm at lost at why anyone would think getting a pump is so important.
I take supplements to help my muscles grow,getting lean and for good health not for a pump


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## Arnold (Mar 19, 2003)

Good point MeanCuts, I think this is one of the first times I agree with you! 

A pump does not cause hypertrophy! You should not lift to obtain a pump, nor should you even be concerned about it.


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## Lightman009 (Mar 19, 2003)

YEP Ive tried all creatine products. And cell-tech works best.


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## MeanCuts (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Lightman009 *_
> YEP Ive tried all creatine products. And cell-tech works best.



How exactly does it work better?


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## Lightman009 (Mar 19, 2003)

As far as pump goes, Ive never had a better pump than I do with Cell-tech. And my energy in the gym has never been higher as well as my endurance.


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## MeanCuts (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Lightman009 *_
> As far as pump goes, Ive never had a better pump than I do with Cell-tech. And my energy in the gym has never been higher as well as my endurance.



Well if you think cell-tech is worth the extra money that's cool whatever works best for you.  Personally I've tried cell-tech once and that was it since I couldn't tell a difference between it and the other creatine I tried before(except the price) i've tried many brands since and have never been disappointed yet.


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## Arnold (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Lightman009 *_
> As far as pump goes, Ive never had a better pump than I do with Cell-tech.



can you explain to me exactly what a pump will do for you in regards to muscle growth?


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## Lightman009 (Mar 19, 2003)

I never said it helped with muscle growth. Somebody just asked what helped them sustain a pump. But I have heard that the more water that is flushed to your muscles is beneficial to muscle growth.


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## MeanCuts (Mar 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Lightman009 *_
> I never said it helped with muscle growth. Somebody just asked what helped them sustain a pump. But I have heard that the more water that is flushed to your muscles is beneficial to muscle growth.



The more water yes I also think this can be benefical as a cell volumizer but that's not a pump.A pump is blood not water.I think your talking about the water retention from creatine


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## mda1125 (Mar 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pepper *_
> N02 Hemodilator
> 
> The reviews on this site have not been good, but one thing that I personally have experienced is the "perpetual pump" that it advertises. I don't buy it anymore b/c it is ridiculously overpriced.



My experience has been the same.  While I don't think NO2 and the 'pump' does anything for me in a physological sense, it sure does in a psychological sense.

The same could be said for having a great workout tape.  If it gets you feeling good, then you probably will do better, lift more weights.. which does do something for you.

So regardless of NO2's or Nitric Oxide's ACTUAL effects on muscle building, it's my workout tape in a sense.

But.. Pepper is correct... I could get an MP3 player and save myself a ton of cash.  It is ridiculously overpriced.

I've also heard TRAC by MHP is impressive.. but I've not personally tried or used it yet.  It's on the list for sure.


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## Wolfpack22 (Mar 25, 2003)

My opinion on any supplement or equipment, gloves, etc. is if you think it helps, then by all means use it.  You always want your mind working for you.


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## MeanCuts (Mar 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Wolfpack22 *_
> My opinion on any supplement or equipment, gloves, etc. is if you think it helps, then by all means use it.  You always want your mind working for you.



This is definitly true "whatever works for you" but I try to do some research before I take a new supplement and try not to fake myself out


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## gopro (Mar 26, 2003)

I experienced a much harder and longer pump when using PLASMA EXPANDOR by VPX.


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## ZECH (Apr 3, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> can you explain to me exactly what a pump will do for you in regards to muscle growth?


This is not meant to sound negative................
Correct me if I'm wrong. Is a pump not your muscles filling and engourging with blood??? If that is true why would that not help growth?


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## Arnold (Apr 3, 2003)

_Okay let me say this again. Obtaining a muscle pump from training IS NOT an indication of growth or even a successful set or workout for that matter.

Let me explain what actually causes a muscle to become pumped so you can better understand why is not an indicator of a successful set or workout.

Like yourself, most people think (and are taught) that the pumped feeling you get while training is a result of increased blood flow into the muscle. This is wrong.

The full and tight feeling, the pump, after a set or workout is not the result of increased blood flow into the muscle. This pump is actually the result of "trapped" blood within the muscle. When a muscle contracts the actual fiber diameter increases as it shortens. This muscle contraction exerts an "inward" force upon itself. This inward force temporarily shuts off vascular activity that blocks blood flow out of the particular muscle group being trained.

When this happens, an increase in blood pressure occurs as an attempt to clear the backed up blood from the congested capillaries and into the maze of interstitial spaces of the muscle cells. As a result of this congestion, a muscular pump prevails.

As you can now see obtaining a muscle pump has nothing to do with increased blood flow into the muscle, but rather a temporary entrapment of blood within the muscle. So you are not increasing the blood flow into the muscle you are decreasing the blood flow out of the muscle while at the same time increasing blood pressure.

This should clearly indicate why a muscle pump has nothing directly to do with muscle growth. This is yet another myth ignorantly propagated by the magazines and gym gurus. Like many things in weight training and bodybuilding, it seems right but it's not.

There is no physiological reason to "train for the pump." For muscle growth you should train to maximize overload force on the muscle because it's the overload that induces the metabolic activities needed for muscle growth to occur._ - Paul Delia


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## ZECH (Apr 3, 2003)

Latcic acid may also be present..............


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## MeanCuts (Apr 3, 2003)

I don't train for the pump but I have to admit it feels good


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## Arnold (Apr 3, 2003)

yes, and Arnold would agree!


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## LILFLEX (Apr 5, 2003)

Buy yourself some Vandyl Sulfate,it does the same thing and its much more cheaper


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## MeanCuts (Apr 5, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> yes, and Arnold would agree!



That's right and it makes you feel like a big man too


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## gopro (Apr 6, 2003)

Who's this Arnold guy??


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## MeanCuts (Apr 6, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Who's this Arnold guy??



Some old dude


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## gopro (Apr 6, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by MeanCuts *_
> Some old dude



Is he that little kid from the old tv show "DIFFERENT STROKES?"


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## MeanCuts (Apr 6, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Is he that little kid from the old tv show "DIFFERENT STROKES?"



whatch you talkin' bout gopro?


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## gopro (Apr 6, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by MeanCuts *_
> whatch you talkin' bout gopro?



LOL!


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## Blade Runner (Apr 15, 2003)

Was wondering.  I just yesterday started taking NOx2 by Pinnacle.  How long before I "feel" this pump?  Also, does caffeine affect this at all?  I know ephedra does.  Does having too much sodium or carbination (from pop or what not) dilute the effects?  I just want to be able to see what this product is fully capable of.


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## gopro (Apr 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Blade Runner *_
> Was wondering.  I just yesterday started taking NOx2 by Pinnacle.  How long before I "feel" this pump?  Also, does caffeine affect this at all?  I know ephedra does.  Does having too much sodium or carbination (from pop or what not) dilute the effects?  I just want to be able to see what this product is fully capable of.



What are the exact ingredients in this product?


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## Blade Runner (Apr 16, 2003)

Arginine alpha-Ketoglutarate (A-AKG)
Arginine-Ketoisocaproate (A-KIC)
3000mg
are the main active ingredients
from the hundreds or posts i read there are alot of different methods (rules) to take this.


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## gopro (Apr 16, 2003)

Oh is that all it is. Its one of those "nitric oxide" increasing supplements. Not really proven to do much in the real world yet. Anyway, you might start feeling more pump very quickly. As for caffeine and soda affecting the pump...nah, it won't interfere.


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## Blade Runner (Apr 16, 2003)

thanks man.  yeah i know its not a sure thing to take but figured i would give it a try once.  so far not too much of a difference.  might be because i expect too much.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Blade Runner *_
> thanks man.  yeah i know its not a sure thing to take but figured i would give it a try once.  so far not too much of a difference.  might be because i expect too much.



Or because it doesn't do shiat.


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## gopro (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Blade Runner *_
> thanks man.  yeah i know its not a sure thing to take but figured i would give it a try once.  so far not too much of a difference.  might be because i expect too much.



Well, look, the "theory" behind alot of supplements "sounds good" or "looks good" on paper, but never pans out in the real world. Also, there are few supplements out there that give quick results. Some give slow but steady gains that add up over months or even years. Some work remarkably well for some, but do nothing for others.

Give this stuff a fair shot (which I consider a minimum of 2 months). Track your progress carefully, which means strength gains, weight gain, body fat change, and subjective findings ("feeling" better, better pumps, more aggression in the gym, etc). This is the only way to really determine the efficacy of any supplement.

Unfortunately, I am pretty sure you won't see much from this one, but who knows, you may be suprised...


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## Blade Runner (Apr 21, 2003)

man so far I have been on it for 1 week and have lost 3lbs.  i have not changed my diet at all and have been only alittle more intense on my training.  very strange supplement.  i am curious as to the results other peple have seen.


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## gopro (Apr 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Blade Runner *_
> man so far I have been on it for 1 week and have lost 3lbs.  i have not changed my diet at all and have been only alittle more intense on my training.  very strange supplement.  i am curious as to the results other peple have seen.



Lost 3 lbs?? Strange


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## Blade Runner (Apr 22, 2003)

yeah i was surprised because my strength is the same.  i look much more cut and my muscles are very defined now.  only thing is losing that weight, size.  if i continue that then i will either have to eat more or get off of it.  i really cannot afford to lose anymore weight, size.  took too long and i worked too hard to get where im at.  is there no one else who have seen results like this so soon?


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## gopro (Apr 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Blade Runner *_
> yeah i was surprised because my strength is the same.  i look much more cut and my muscles are very defined now.  only thing is losing that weight, size.  if i continue that then i will either have to eat more or get off of it.  i really cannot afford to lose anymore weight, size.  took too long and i worked too hard to get where im at.  is there no one else who have seen results like this so soon?



This is not supposed to be a "fat burning" supplement? You do notice that you look more cut?? Are you sure you haven't changed anything since starting it?


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## buff_tat2d_chic (Apr 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Lightman009 *_
> ...you wake up with a pump.



Is that what you guys call it now days??


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## gopro (Apr 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by buff_tat2d_chick *_
> Is that what you guys call it now days??



Cute


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## Blade Runner (Apr 22, 2003)

Oh yeah I look way more cut.  I can see more striations in my chest and muscle separation in my biceps.  I have not changed my diet at all, I eat the same every day.  In fact I have cut down on my cardio as well, only do that 2x a week now for 20 mins.  Have not taken ephedra either.  I do feel more of a 'pump' when I workout but it does not last all day or anything like that.  Still deciding if I like it but I know I dont like the unexpected loss of size and not being able to take ephedra (which I only use for energy, not for fat loss).


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## gopro (Apr 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Blade Runner *_
> Oh yeah I look way more cut.  I can see more striations in my chest and muscle separation in my biceps.  I have not changed my diet at all, I eat the same every day.  In fact I have cut down on my cardio as well, only do that 2x a week now for 20 mins.  Have not taken ephedra either.  I do feel more of a 'pump' when I workout but it does not last all day or anything like that.  Still deciding if I like it but I know I dont like the unexpected loss of size and not being able to take ephedra (which I only use for energy, not for fat loss).



This is strange...if you keep taking it, please keep me posted on what happens.


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## BJJ monster (Apr 27, 2003)

i'm in suspense!!! ah!!! what happened?!?! you know what would make the world a better place? if you all chipped into my supplement fund so i can try everything i want to try without tapping into my bank account.


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## Blade Runner (Apr 28, 2003)

Last week was a good one (didnt lose any weight.  not doing cardio at all helped).  To recap the first two weeks on NoX2, I lost 3 lbs and .6% body fat.  I still think thats too much weight to lose but the strength is surprisingly still there.  Seems like my body has normalized a bit now and is steady.  I am thinking of upping my calories a little but keeping everything else the same.  Still not sure what to think about it yet.  Two weeks left and then I will evaluate once more before getting off of it.


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## gopro (Apr 28, 2003)

BJJ...I'm writing you out a check right now


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## LuckyE84 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Fingers Crossed*

Blade Runner i'm definitely awaiting your next post, I just got some NO2 but haven't started it yet (I will in about a week when i get to college with a 24 hour gym). Everyone is saying that its a load of crap, but you seem to be getting results that i would love to experience with this stuff. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that your next post will be with a good review.


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## Pumping Iron (Aug 14, 2003)

The pump may not have anything to do with growing bigger muscles, but it DOES matter! 
   The bigger, better pump you can get, the bigger you look. Therefore, competitive bodybuilder's need it. My arms are 16-17 inches cold, they swell to 19 when pumped. Same with the rest of my body. Of course everyone can say that, that when their body gets pumped you look bigger. But its especially true for me. 
   I have a big chest that gets huge when pumped . My back is so-so, actually one of my weaker bodyparts, but it blows up to one of my best bodyparts when pumped. 
   The reason people "train for a pump" is because its a way to increase intensity. The shorter the rest between sets, the better the pump, even though it may not directly affect growth, you know your training at a good pace.
   In fact, many famous bodybuilders have trained with shorter resting periods, thus getting a better pump. Sergio, Arnold, Ferrigno and many others have all trained with short breaks, enhancing their pump.   
   Therefore, the pump is important. If only for an hour, the pump gives you that extra edge in competition, not to mention its a one of the best feelings you can have..."Too me a pump is better than having sex with a woman and cumming".


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## bludevil (Aug 14, 2003)

> _*Too me a pump is better than having sex with a woman and cumming". *_


_*

A pump is nice but to say that it's better than sex. C'mon now are you serious. *_


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## Arnold (Aug 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pumping Iron *_
> The pump may not have anything to do with growing bigger muscles, but it DOES matter!
> The bigger, better pump you can get, the bigger you look. Therefore, competitive bodybuilder's need it. My arms are 16-17 inches cold, they swell to 19 when pumped. Same with the rest of my body. Of course everyone can say that, that when their body gets pumped you look bigger. But its especially true for me.
> I have a big chest that gets huge when pumped . My back is so-so, actually one of my weaker bodyparts, but it blows up to one of my best bodyparts when pumped.
> ...



No offense but this is all a load of crap. 

A pump is just a side effect of training, it should NEVER be your goal in a work-out, and it should NEVER be the measure of a successful work-out, period.

Furthermore, getting a pump every work-out does not increase your ability to get pumped, not sure how you came to that conclusion.

As far as competition, sure you get a little pumped before you go on stage, but you do not want to get excessively pumped or you will have problems posing, such as shaking, inability to hold a pose, cramping, etc.


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## Pumping Iron (Aug 14, 2003)

I never said getting a pump every workout increases your ability to get pumped. 

As far as competition, you better get a good pump, or your muscles go cold and you look like shit out there.  You must practice posing while your all pumped up, therefore you won't shake, cramp....

And no bluedevil, its not better than sex, but its pretty freakin close....


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## Arnold (Aug 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pumping Iron *_
> As far as competition, you better get a good pump, or your muscles go cold and you look like shit out there.  You must practice posing while your all pumped up, therefore you won't shake, cramp....



How many times have you competed?


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## Par Deus (Aug 14, 2003)

A better pump will result in more blood flow, thus more nutrients to the muscle, which will be good for recovery, as well as nutrient partitioning (since adipose does not share the increase).

It will also lead to compensetory hypertrophy of the vascular system (and, glycogen stores as well), which will result in larger muscles, though they will not be as strong per unit cross-sectional area -- there are studies looking at muscle fibers in bodybuilders vs. Olympic/Powerlifters, and the bodybuilders have larger CSA, but most is due to things other than contractile protein.


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## Par Deus (Aug 14, 2003)

Should add that I still very much agree that it should not be THE goal of training, but there is data to suggest that it is not a bad idea at all to have it be a goal, if you are just training for hypertrophy and not function.


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## Arnold (Aug 14, 2003)

I think that Paul Delia answers this question best:


_Obtaining a muscle pump from training IS NOT an indication of growth or even a successful set or workout for that matter.

Let me explain what actually causes a muscle to become pumped so you can better understand why is not an indicator of a successful set or workout.

*Like yourself, most people think (and are taught) that the pumped feeling you get while training is a result of increased blood flow into the muscle. This is wrong.*

The full and tight feeling, the pump, after a set or workout is not the result of increased blood flow into the muscle. This pump is actually the result of "trapped" blood within the muscle. When a muscle contracts the actual fiber diameter increases as it shortens. This muscle contraction exerts an "inward" force upon itself. This inward force temporarily shuts off vascular activity that blocks blood flow out of the particular muscle group being trained.

When this happens, an increase in blood pressure occurs as an attempt to clear the backed up blood from the congested capillaries and into the maze of interstitial spaces of the muscle cells. As a result of this congestion, a muscular pump prevails.

As you can now see obtaining a muscle pump has nothing to do with increased blood flow into the muscle, but rather a temporary entrapment of blood within the muscle. So you are not increasing the blood flow into the muscle you are decreasing the blood flow out of the muscle while at the same time increasing blood pressure.

This should clearly indicate why a muscle pump has nothing directly to do with muscle growth. This is yet another myth ignorantly propagated by the magazines and gym gurus. Like many things in weight training and bodybuilding, it seems right but it's not.

There is no physiological reason to "train for the pump." For muscle growth you should train to maximize overload force on the muscle because it's the overload that induces the metabolic activities needed for muscle growth to occur.

One more thing I must point out, no matter how you train, some degree of muscular pump will occur. It's a side effect of muscle contraction. However, it's important to understand that training specifically to induce a maximum muscle pump is not an efficient way to build muscle and quite possibly could be detrimental to your efforts. So you don't train to avoid a pump, you just don't train specifically to achieve a pump._


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## Par Deus (Aug 14, 2003)

Paul Delia rarely says anything best -- instead, he writes columns (without references and with numerous things indicating he is ignorant of, or holding back purposefully, large amounts of data from the literature), which attack the "science" of products that AST has incentive to remove market share from.

Here are some studies on increased blood flow during exercise:

J Appl Physiol. 2003 Jan;94(1):6-10. Epub 2002 Aug 16. Related Articles, Links  


Comment in: 
J Appl Physiol. 2003 Jan;94(1):3-5.

Muscle pump does not enhance blood flow in exercising skeletal muscle.

Hamann JJ, Valic Z, Buckwalter JB, Clifford PS.

Medical College of Wisconsin and Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Milwaukee 53295, USA.

The muscle pump theory holds that contraction aids muscle perfusion by emptying the venous circulation, which lowers venous pressure during relaxation and increases the pressure gradient across the muscle. We reasoned that the influence of a reduction in venous pressure could be determined after maximal pharmacological vasodilation, in which the changes in vascular tone would be minimized. Mongrel dogs (n = 7), instrumented for measurement of hindlimb blood flow, ran on a treadmill during continuous intra-arterial infusion of saline or adenosine (15-35 mg/min). Adenosine infusion was initiated at rest to achieve the highest blood flow possible. Peak hindlimb blood flow during exercise increased from baseline by 438 +/- 34 ml/min under saline conditions but decreased by 27 +/- 18 ml/min during adenosine infusion. The absence of an increase in blood flow in the vasodilated limb indicates that any change in venous pressure elicited by the muscle pump was not adequate to elevate hindlimb blood flow. The implication of this finding is that the hyperemic response to exercise is primarily attributable to vasodilation in the skeletal muscle vasculature.

PMID: 12391132 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 


J Appl Physiol. 1998 Nov;85(5):1649-54.  Related Articles, Links  


Skeletal muscle vasodilation at the onset of exercise.

Buckwalter JB, Ruble SB, Mueller PJ, Clifford PS.

Departments of Anesthesiology and Physiology, Medical College of Wisconsin and Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53295, USA.

The purpose of this study was to determine whether beta-adrenergic or muscarinic receptors are involved in skeletal muscle vasodilation at the onset of exercise. Mongrel dogs (n = 7) were instrumented with flow probes on both external iliac arteries and a catheter in one femoral artery. Propranolol (1 mg), atropine (500 microgram), both drugs, or saline was infused intra-arterially immediately before treadmill exercise at 3 miles/h, 0% grade. Immediate and rapid increases in iliac blood flow occurred with initiation of exercise under all conditions. Peak blood flows were not significantly different among conditions (682 +/- 35, 646 +/- 49, 637 +/- 68, and 705 +/- 50 ml/min, respectively). Although the doses of antagonists employed had no effect on heart rate or systemic blood pressure, they were adequate to abolish agonist-induced increases in iliac blood flow. Because neither propranolol nor atropine affected iliac blood flow, we conclude that activation of beta-adrenergic and muscarinic receptors is not essential for the rapid vasodilation in active skeletal muscle at the onset of exercise in dogs.

PMID: 9804565 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 


J Appl Physiol. 1997 Dec;83(6):2037-42.  Related Articles, Links  


Autonomic control of skeletal muscle vasodilation during exercise.

Buckwalter JB, Mueller PJ, Clifford PS.

Department of Anesthesiology, Veterans Affairs Medical Center and Medical College of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53295, USA.

Despite extensive investigation, the control of blood flow during dynamic exercise is not fully understood. The purpose of this study was to determine whether beta-adrenergic or muscarinic receptors are involved in the vasodilation in exercising skeletal muscle. Six mongrel dogs were instrumented with ultrasonic flow probes on both external iliac arteries and with a catheter in a branch of one femoral artery. The dogs exercised on a treadmill at 6 miles/h while drugs were injected intra-arterially into one hindlimb. Isoproterenol (0.2 microg) or acetylcholine (1 microg) elicited increases in iliac blood flow of 89.8 +/- 14.4 and 95.6 +/- 17.4%, respectively, without affecting systemic blood pressure or blood flow in the contralateral iliac artery. Intra-arterial propranolol (1 mg) or atropine (500 microg) had no effect on iliac blood flow, although they abolished the isoproterenol and acetylcholine-induced increases in iliac blood flow. These data indicate that exogenous activation of beta-adrenergic or muscarinic receptors in the hindlimb vasculature increases blood flow to dynamically exercising muscle. More importantly, because neither propranolol nor atropine affected iliac blood flow, we conclude that beta-adrenergic and muscarinic receptors are not involved in the control of blood flow to skeletal muscle during moderate steady-state dynamic exercise in dogs.

PMID: 9390978 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 


I could supply 100 more.

Why do you suppose the body increases blood flow to the muscle during exercise, if not to transport more nutrients to the cell.

It does not make a great deal of evolutionary sense (or common sense), to have a system which drastically increases blood flow (and, blood carries nutrients to cells) to the tissue with a higher demand for said nutrients, "coincidentally" right when that increased demand occurs, only to have it completely go to waste -- because, according to Delia, the one and only thing that increases the pump is blood that is trapped by a shortage of outflow -- and, worse, if we are not getting those nutrients from that increase in arteriol flow to the cell -- all it is left with is the used up venous blood that is stuck in there.

Somehow, I doubt such a system would have survived many millions of years of natural selection.

One can see through B.S. that uses the words "science" and "research" a lot, with pubmed and a little effort/logical reasoning.


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## ZECH (Aug 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> How many times have you competed?


You don't want blood gorging in your muscles during comp. It can hinder definiton and that is what you want. You don't want to look smooth.


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## Arnold (Aug 15, 2003)

Yes, it can do that has well...but why are you quoting my post where I asked him how many times he has competed though?


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## gopro (Aug 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Par Deus *_
> A better pump will result in more blood flow, thus more nutrients to the muscle, which will be good for recovery, as well as nutrient partitioning (since adipose does not share the increase).
> 
> It will also lead to compensetory hypertrophy of the vascular system (and, glycogen stores as well), which will result in larger muscles, though they will not be as strong per unit cross-sectional area -- there are studies looking at muscle fibers in bodybuilders vs. Olympic/Powerlifters, and the bodybuilders have larger CSA, but most is due to things other than contractile protein.



This was a beautiful post, and I totally agree. This is why I like people to explore rep ranges from 4-6 to 7-12 to 8-20. This way you can cause muscle damage, get a pump, affect the various types of muscle fibers that muscles contain, as well as affect different hormones that will react to different rep ranges.


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## SVEN73 (Aug 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Blade Runner *_
> i look much more cut and my muscles are very defined now.  is there no one else who have seen results like this so soon?




-YES, but w/ WIN


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## grf74 (Feb 2, 2004)

OK, I took NO2 for one bottle's worth, which was only 18 days for me. It worked for me, not so much as giving me a "pump" but in the way I would prefer, increased ENERGY. Which in turn would help me increase lean mass. But, at $60 a bottle, (20% off $70), there is no way I could continue using it.

So, I tried Chuck Diesel's NOS precursor. Cheap? Yes. Work? Nope, notta nothing. All kinds of additives, but none that helped me. I tried Trac Creatine, I couldn't really tell that I got much from it either, maybe only slightly more energy, hard to say, therefore it's not worth my money either. 

After many times of trying Creatine, that never worked for me, I looked to the above alternatives for help, and go tnothing except for the results from NO2, and a lighter billfold.

Well, now I have been using EAS, and Weider Creatines, and they really have helped much more than I ever thought possible. I can go to the gym and have plenty of energy for a whole body workout for an hour or more. Good for me..lol. Plenty of Pump too.

But, with Creatine, and most other supp.'s, you must cycle off. So I am fixing to do that for a month from my creatine and needed something else to try. So I went to my local GNC looking for another NO supplement to try, hopefully cheaper. Well, I decided to try their GNC brand Arginmax. It's serving size is 3 grams of arginine a day, split at 1.5gm 2x a day. So I will be taking this 1hour before hitting the gym, and maybe before bed or right after the gym, not really sure yet. I am on here now looking for that suggestion, (when to take?). Just saw this thread, and thought I would share my experience.

PEACE!!


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## BabsieGirl (Feb 2, 2004)

You should try SwoleV.2 

Syntrax has this special where you get SwoleV.2 and Isomatrix Reloaded all for $45......this include shipping......

www.syntrax.com


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