# Using estrogen blockers solely?



## BoatsN'Hoes (Nov 10, 2014)

Generally how much muscle could someone put on with just an estrogen blocker? No stacking, just natural from there. I would imagine it's minuscule but it's worth asking anyways. I would imagine it would help a little with burning fat but how much muscle could be put on in a month, 3 months, 6 months etc. Anyone try this before?


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## sneedham (Nov 10, 2014)

Lmao


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## raysd21 (Nov 10, 2014)

It's a fucking estro blocker dipshit.  Estrogen is actually good for building muscle moron.  

Go get some 1-Andro and some Msten and look between your legs to find your sack if you still have one fuckhead.


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## perarded123 (Nov 10, 2014)

you could low dose it every other few days for testosterone maintenance, exemstane does not lower muscle mass, nor does formestane which actually increases my muscle mass over time.


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## chocolatemalt (Nov 11, 2014)

You actually would likely gain (some) muscle mass from SERMs or AIs if that's all you used, compared to using nothing and going "natty" and if you've got no cycle muscle mass to maintain.

The reason for this is that the negative feedback system in your body that regulates testosterone cannot actually see it -- it must convert to estrogen first and then measure that.  More precisely, the hypothalamus and pituitary must aromatise test into E2 and then the local E2 receptors must receive it for the measurement to go through.  Clog up either mechanism and you'll have the HPTA pumping out some more (maybe not a huge amount more, but maybe double, if you're lucky) LH & FSH in order to get those "measurements" up.

Here are some articles about doing exactly that.  I've long planned to give an aromasin and then anastrozole "cruise" a try to see if it'll get my 500 natty levels up to 800-1000 without the need to pin test and hcg... haven't tried it yet.  Anyone else here done it?

http://jeffreydachmd.com/clomid-for-low-testosterone-part-one/
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2003-031467

Don't start thinking that this will ever compete with muscle gains on a real cycle tho.


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Nov 11, 2014)

raysd21 said:


> It's a fucking estro blocker dipshit.  Estrogen is actually good for building muscle moron.
> 
> Go get some 1-Andro and some Msten and look between your legs to find your sack if you still have one fuckhead.



You go take some estrogen then you fucking retard. Estrogen is not good for building muscles you god dam simple mother fucker. Long ethers estrogen production is a side effect and not a correlation. Seriously not going there, but you go take some estrogen and tell me how it works out. Maybe you'll grow a sweet pair of tits and then you'll be useful to me.


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Nov 11, 2014)

chocolatemalt said:


> You actually would likely gain (some) muscle mass from SERMs or AIs if that's all you used, compared to using nothing and going "natty" and if you've got no cycle muscle mass to maintain.
> 
> The reason for this is that the negative feedback system in your body that regulates testosterone cannot actually see it -- it must convert to estrogen first and then measure that.  More precisely, the hypothalamus and pituitary must aromatise test into E2 and then the local E2 receptors must receive it for the measurement to go through.  Clog up either mechanism and you'll have the HPTA pumping out some more (maybe not a huge amount more, but maybe double, if you're lucky) LH & FSH in order to get those "measurements" up.
> 
> ...



Yeah that sounds like a good idea, thanks for the links. Yeah I wouldn't ever expect to see gains like that of a cycle, I only would expect to see a few pounds, maybe 5lbs on it overall but I really don't know what I would see. I'm pretty happy with my muscle mass I have, I would only want to gain like 5lbs more anyways and the extra test doesn't hurt to get my body fat down a lil, I'd like to hit 6% and I'm at like 8% right now.


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## raysd21 (Nov 11, 2014)

The question is.....why the fuck wouldn't you take 1-Andro and then do an otc pct?   Running an estro blocker solely is just fucking retarded.  Don't come crying back here when your fucking joints and bones are fucking toast.  You can't lift when your bones are creaking and cracking like a fucking skeleton.


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## ldog (Nov 12, 2014)

I feel tension up in hera


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## raysd21 (Nov 12, 2014)

No tension.  

Just senseless fucking stupidity.

Just trying to help people here.  People are uneducated and stubborn as fuck.

It's not a good combination.  The end results are never good.


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## heavyiron (Nov 12, 2014)

Taking an Andro product like ray posted would help much more IMO.

I LOVE 4-andro Rx for increase mood, energy. libido and Testosterone.

*4 andro*


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## ldog (Nov 12, 2014)

Raysd21,

You always brighten my day with your comments!


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## raysd21 (Nov 12, 2014)

heavyiron said:


> Taking an Andro product like ray posted would help much more IMO.
> 
> I LOVE 4-andro Rx for increase mood, energy. libido and Testosterone.
> 
> *4 andro*



These current Andro products are the real deal.  They convert to Testosterone.  They are not toxic.  Just take your estro blocker with an Andro product.  It just makes sense.  Run your PCT like a pro and you are golden.

A guy at my gym is running 4-Andro and he put on 8lbs in 2 weeks.  I got him on an anadrol/superdrol blend and he put on another 6 in 10 days.  This is the way to go if you don't want to inject.  They are the real deal.


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## raysd21 (Nov 12, 2014)

ldog said:


> Raysd21,
> 
> You always brighten my day with your comments!



I am a little rough around the edges but I speak the truth.  Straight from the heart....If I have one...


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## ldog (Nov 12, 2014)

Lol..your a trip bro.


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Nov 27, 2014)

A little rough? Fuck. Btw I don't want a pro hormone. If I wanted hormones then I'd take something mild like anavar. 


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## dave 236 (Nov 29, 2014)

An estrogen blocker is not a wise choice unless you're adding exogenous testosterone. if you're looking to increase muscle or strength then blocking estrogen in the absence of supra physiological test levels will hinder your efforts.  You need a certain amount of estrogen to build muscle and stay healthy.  AIs are used to keep the high levels of added test from converting to estro so blocking it without adding any test is kinda dumb IMO. 

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## chocolatemalt (Nov 29, 2014)

dave 236 said:


> An estrogen blocker is not a wise choice unless you're adding exogenous testosterone. if you're looking to increase muscle or strength then blocking estrogen in the absence of supra physiological test levels will hinder your efforts.  You need a certain amount of estrogen to build muscle and stay healthy.  AIs are used to keep the high levels of added test from converting to estro so blocking it without adding any test is kinda dumb IMO.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk



The SERM or AI causes higher test production (and therefore E2 as well) since your HPTA thinks levels are low.  So it can be used for TRT in some cases.  This is discussed in the links I posted above.


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## heavyiron (Nov 29, 2014)

chocolatemalt said:


> The SERM or AI causes higher test production (and therefore E2 as well) since your HPTA thinks levels are low.  So it can be used for TRT in some cases.  This is discussed in the links I posted above.


AI's do not cause high E2.


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Nov 30, 2014)

I have read studies that support the claim that estrogen blockers will add more muscle and burn more fat....


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## perarded123 (Nov 30, 2014)

yes they can but if you want serious gain, anabolics is the way to go


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## Conceal30 (Dec 7, 2014)

raysd21 said:


> I am a little rough around the edges but I speak the truth.  Straight from the heart....If I have one...


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## chocolatemalt (Dec 9, 2014)

Originally Posted by *chocolatemalt* 

 
                 The SERM or AI causes higher test production  (and therefore E2 as well) since your HPTA thinks levels are low.  So it  can be used for TRT in some cases.  This is discussed in the links I  posted above.



heavyiron said:


> AI's do not cause high E2.



True, that didn't come out right.  AI use in natural production won't raise E2 overall.  It'll initially suppress E2 leading to increased LH/FSH, then rising test levels, and therefore rising E2 again.  I was referring only to this local "rise" in E2 from increased test, and only to its previous level.


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## blergs. (Dec 9, 2014)

BoatsN'Hoes said:


> Generally how much muscle could someone put on with just an estrogen blocker? No stacking, just natural from there. I would imagine it's minuscule but it's worth asking anyways. I would imagine it would help a little with burning fat but how much muscle could be put on in a month, 3 months, 6 months etc. Anyone try this before?



plz don't, it is a silly idea...   do cycle or dont..


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## raysd21 (Dec 9, 2014)

I have a new found hatred for estrogen.  I will never again let it get as high as it was last week....horrible.  Just horrible.  

Felt like death.  Horny...Sad....Death.


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## BoatsN'Hoes (Dec 11, 2014)

Someone must have tried this out, otherwise how could you just bat this idea down without having tried it or knowing someone who tried it.


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## SFW (Dec 11, 2014)

BoatsN'Hoes said:


> Someone must have tried this out, otherwise how could you just bat this idea down without having tried it or knowing someone who tried it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Theres tons of publications on stand alone ai use. Mostly as a trt alternative for geezers.


Heres what 6 mons of letro at 2.5 ed will do....

http://www.ergo-log.com/letrozole2.html


Check the chart, notice no real increase in bmi? Id say the biggest plus would be bigger loads and more active swimmers, but you will not gain muscle. Unless you were an elderly man with low test and high estrogen, there isnt much benefit as a standalone. If a doc told you that you have the t levels of a 8 yr old chinese girl and the estrogen levels of a tranny, then maybe as a standalone would there be some normalization of hormones. But no gainz.


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## SFW (Dec 11, 2014)

Back in 07, before i used gear, i ran 6 oxo. Nothing happened, i gained nothing. Then i ran atd. I actually got weaker somehow. Point is, unless youre infertile or elderly, or morbidly obese and high estrogen has contributed to your obesity and youre too much of a risk for trt, then maybe an ae/ai might help


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## raysd21 (Dec 11, 2014)

Run an animal M-stak before you run AI.  Just the regular Animal Stak makes me angry as hell.  Well it used to....before I got geared.


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## JR. (Aug 8, 2015)

Tell em boats! That guys a f****** douchebag

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