# Supplement experiment...



## gopro (Jun 30, 2003)

I am about to experiment with the Avant Labs product Lipoderm-Y. I asked Twin Peak which topical he thought would have a more dramatic effect for me and he suggested this product. I am going to give it a fair trial and of course I will keep all of you up to date on my progress (or lack thereof).


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## Robboe (Jun 30, 2003)

Which areas of application?


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## gopro (Jun 30, 2003)

Lower abdominal and lower back area. Since I am experimenting this year with a low to zero cardio approach these are the only areas that I worry about. My definition comes out in all other areas through dieting, however, it has always taken a good amount of cardio in the past to get my lower back "christmas tree" and my lower abs to the level of my mid and upper.


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## ZECH (Jun 30, 2003)

You still must create a calorie deficit or the mobilized fat will redeposit. It still takes proper diet, cardio or both!


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## gopro (Jun 30, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> You still must create a calorie deficit or the mobilized fat will redeposit. It still takes proper diet, cardio or both!



Dude...who are you talking to here


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## Mudge (Jun 30, 2003)

Insert "dur" here


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## gopro (Jun 30, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> Insert "dur" here



Thanks for adding that, LOL!!


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## ZECH (Jun 30, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Dude...who are you talking to here


Wasn't exactly meant toward you.


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## DaMayor (Jun 30, 2003)

I thought DG's comment was  an informative addition for the general public. Ain't that what this joint is all about?


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## Twin Peak (Jun 30, 2003)

Just saw this.  I'd like to add that, for a variety of reasons, Ab-Solved is the better abdminal fat mobilizer for MOST people.  Ask Jodi.

That said, I explained the science of each, as well as the correlating science behind why people store fat the way we do, to GoPro.  Much of this, I am sure he already knew.

Most abdominal fat on most people is a result of cortisol.  This is what Ab-Solved targets.

However, after discussing this with GP, based on his previous dieting tendencies and the way he described is fat storage (as above) it seemed like it was more likely that he was storing fat there due to "stubborn fat", as opposed to cortisol.  This is what Lipo was designed for.

Also, Lipo often causes some transient water retention, concomittently with the fat loss.  So, often people do not notice results until a week or two off the product.

All of this was discussed with GP prior to his purchase.

In any event, this should be interesting.  I know of no other time where an Avant product (or any other for that matter) was "tested" and journaled by a rep of another company.


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## Mudge (Jun 30, 2003)

Some of it is related to circulation in the area, but genetically speaking most men store it in the gut region. The theory I have heard is that this is natural because if it were on the arms/legs then it would cause mobility problems. Plus as a side bennefit it helps keep the core of the body warm.


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## gopro (Jul 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> I thought DG's comment was  an informative addition for the general public. Ain't that what this joint is all about?



Sure it is! The comment just seemed to be directed toward me as this was a thread that I started and one that is about a "personal" experiment based on my personal program. Not that I'm mad at dg or anything as I am sure he had the best of intentions...I was really just busting his balls.


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## gopro (Jul 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Just saw this.  I'd like to add that, for a variety of reasons, Ab-Solved is the better abdminal fat mobilizer for MOST people.  Ask Jodi.
> 
> That said, I explained the science of each, as well as the correlating science behind why people store fat the way we do, to GoPro.  Much of this, I am sure he already knew.
> ...



Like TP said, we did discuss the various fat burning topicals put out by avant. Also as he pointed out, I am quite aware of why we store fat, etc, but I was not aware of which product in the avant line was meant for what purpose. And for this, TP is the "go to guy."

I have used topical products before for contest prep with the only good results coming from a former SAN product called Lipoburn. Of course, no topical fat burner is going to produce miracles, but I'm curious to see how the Avant product stands up.

My bodyfat is around 8 % at the moment and my intention is to hit around 3% in several months.

What I plan to do is for the next few weeks is to keep my program AS IS in order to really see what Lipoderm can do. My mind is completely open, so it will be interesting. I do of course hope that is works great!!


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## DaMayor (Jul 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Sure it is! The comment just seemed to be directed toward me as this was a thread that I started and one that is about a "personal" experiment based on my personal program. Not that I'm mad at dg or anything as I am sure he had the best of intentions...I was really just busting his balls.




I didn't interpret your response as anger, I just thought it might be misunderstood by those new to the site......who aren't familiar with the 'diversity' of personalities here. 

In reference to your post below, how healthy is 3%BF?


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## Mudge (Jul 1, 2003)

I think science recognizes 5-6% about the "healthy" breaking point for males, but if someone were that low naturally, then maybe its "ok."


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## Twin Peak (Jul 1, 2003)

Since when has competitive bodybuilding ever been healthy?


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## ZECH (Jul 1, 2003)

TP is correct. BF between 3 & 5% on top of being dehydrated at contest time is very unhealthy. You can't stay that way very long or you risk health problems.


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## Mudge (Jul 1, 2003)

Pros are known for not intaking water for 24-36 hours before a competition, Momo Benaziza died from this. He was short, so he pushed his luck on trying to come in ultra ripped and vascular.


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## gopro (Jul 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Since when has competitive bodybuilding ever been healthy?



Very true statement. 3% bodyfat is not a healthy level, but it looks damn good on stage, LOL. But seriously, it is a level of conditioning that I will hold only for competing, although I DO plan at staying around 7% year around from now on.


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## lean_n_76er (Jul 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Just saw this.  I'd like to add that, for a variety of reasons, Ab-Solved is the better abdminal fat mobilizer for MOST people.  Ask Jodi.
> 
> That said, I explained the science of each, as well as the correlating science behind why people store fat the way we do, to GoPro.  Much of this, I am sure he already knew.
> ...



Going out on the "STUPID" limb here, but is this product (Ab-Solved) for anyone just trying to rid the fat or should it be used for comp only?


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## Twin Peak (Jul 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by lean_n_76er *_
> Going out on the "STUPID" limb here, but is this product (Ab-Solved) for anyone just trying to rid the fat or should it be used for comp only?



Ab-Solved is designed to reduce abdominal fat by anyone who is in a hypocaloric state (i.e. a diet or cut).

It will work at any BF%, but will be most effective if used by people who have trouble with abdominal fat, in particular.


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## Twin Peak (Jul 2, 2003)

BTW, GoPro has decided to use Lipoderm-Y, for a variety of reasons I discussed above.  Jodi has used Ab-Solved with significant effects.


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## gopro (Jul 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> BTW, GoPro has decided to use Lipoderm-Y, for a variety of reasons I discussed above.  Jodi has used Ab-Solved with significant effects.



TP, you may be interested to know that I am putting my sister on Absolved. This way I can document the effects of that product as well. And also, I put one other client on the Lipoderm, and will be doing an experiment with Leptigen as well. 

(Better not tell Jack about this, LOL)


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## Twin Peak (Jul 2, 2003)

Interesting.

So, Eric, details.  Did you start?  If so when?  Will you be going purely by sight/visual or are you taking measurements?

Is your client that is using Lipo a female?  I'd rather see a female using it on hips/thighs.

Also, where did you purchase them from?


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## gopro (Jul 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Interesting.
> 
> So, Eric, details.  Did you start?  If so when?  Will you be going purely by sight/visual or are you taking measurements?
> ...



Starting this Saturday on myself. I will take measurements and go by visual reference.

My sister will use Absolved on her stomach and my client is a male and will use the Lipo on his abs and love handle area.

Purchased straight from Avant.


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## lean_n_76er (Jul 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Ab-Solved is designed to reduce abdominal fat by anyone who is in a hypocaloric state (i.e. a diet or cut).
> 
> It will work at any BF%, but will be most effective if used by people who have trouble with abdominal fat, in particular.



COOL!  Just may have to get some of this!  Do have trouble with the abdominal area!  Thanks TP!


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## gopro (Jul 12, 2003)

Just updating all of you on my results after one week of use of Avant's Lipo-Y. I have only been using it once per day, about 6 squirts right before bed. So far my waist measurment has stayed about the same size, however, I do see some more definition in my intercostal/oblique area, and feel as if my waist is "tighter." I do not see any real water retention as of yet. This is after just one week and so far I'm pleased. I may up the dosage a bit this week...not sure. I will report back again in another week.


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## Twin Peak (Jul 12, 2003)

What day/date did you begin?

Its meant to be applied twice per day, btw. You are better off doing 3/3.


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## gopro (Jul 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> What day/date did you begin?
> 
> Its meant to be applied twice per day, btw. You are better off doing 3/3.



I started exactly a week ago today...ummm, Saturday the 5th. I will begin using 2 daily applications this week.


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## PulsatingArt (Jul 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Like TP said, we did discuss the various fat burning topicals put out by avant. Also as he pointed out, I am quite aware of why we store fat, etc, but I was not aware of which product in the avant line was meant for what purpose. And for this, TP is the "go to guy."
> 
> I have used topical products before for contest prep with the only good results coming from a former SAN product called Lipoburn. Of course, no topical fat burner is going to produce miracles, but I'm curious to see how the Avant product stands up.
> ...



8%?????  damn, I'm gonna start calling you SLOPRO  (just kidding, I'm way higher than that, it was sarcastic)


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## gopro (Jul 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by PulsatingArt *_
> 8%?????  damn, I'm gonna start calling you SLOPRO  (just kidding, I'm way higher than that, it was sarcastic)



Hmmmm, I know you were just kidding around but I don't get the joke...please explain "Slopro..." (maybe I am "slow" for not understanding!)


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## PulsatingArt (Jul 13, 2003)

Slopro  being big and heavy at a whopping 8%; which by the way, i can only hope to be at one of these days, being in the 15 + percentage range myself;


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## PulsatingArt (Jul 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Hmmmm, I know you were just kidding around but I don't get the joke...please explain "Slopro..." (maybe I am "slow" for not understanding!)



my goals are slightly different; i want the body of dorian with the face of a horor movie gargoyle!!!  hahahahahaha


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## Robboe (Jul 14, 2003)

You on drugs?


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## gopro (Jul 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by PulsatingArt *_
> my goals are slightly different; i want the body of dorian with the face of a horor movie gargoyle!!!  hahahahahaha



Well, I don't know about the gargoyle face, but believe me, if I could look like Dorian naturally, I'd love it!!


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## PulsatingArt (Jul 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Well, I don't know about the gargoyle face, but believe me, if I could look like Dorian naturally, I'd love it!!



My face ain't too far off, I just need that dorianesque physique


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## gopro (Jul 22, 2003)

Just an update: Currently using 4 squirts of Lipo-Y twice per day. After 18 days my waist is down about 3/8 of an inch. So far I think this stuff works pretty well, but not quite as well as a product I used to use (no longer available), called Lipoburn. However, at that time they were allowed to use more ingredients that they can no longer put in OTC supps.

I will update again soon, but so far...


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## ZECH (Jul 22, 2003)

It has 6 grams of Yohim in it. How much did Lipoburn have??


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## gopro (Jul 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> It has 6 grams of Yohim in it. How much did Lipoburn have??



Sorry dg, the last time I used it was years ago, so I don't know. But like I said, it also had tiratricol and usnic acid in it, so they are not totally comparable.


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## Rodrugg (Jul 22, 2003)

Alls I can say is be careful experimenting with supplements. My uncle Stanley knows this guy and he experimented with all kinds of supplements to make his muscles bigger and his elbows more pointy. He used hog root, rot gut, persimmon leaves, raspberry bark, sugar bees. Now he's all hobbled and a ticking time bomb. My uncle says sometimes he shakes uncontrollably for no reason and spits on the walls and tugs at his belt loops. He's been to the doctor about 80 times and they want to put him in a coma til they can find out what's wrong with him. My uncle says he'll probably wind up dead in a corn field somewhere.


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## gopro (Jul 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Rodrugg *_
> Alls I can say is be careful experimenting with supplements. My uncle Stanley knows this guy and he experimented with all kinds of supplements to make his muscles bigger and his elbows more pointy. He used hog root, rot gut, persimmon leaves, raspberry bark, sugar bees. Now he's all hobbled and a ticking time bomb. My uncle says sometimes he shakes uncontrollably for no reason and spits on the walls and tugs at his belt loops. He's been to the doctor about 80 times and they want to put him in a coma til they can find out what's wrong with him. My uncle says he'll probably wind up dead in a corn field somewhere.



I don't know who you are, or why you post, but what you write is pretty funny!


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## ZECH (Jul 22, 2003)

Awhhhh!! UA kinda scares me though. Think I'll just stick to Yohim when I try it!

I accidently put this in your thread somehow at first??? That is why it shows edited by me.


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## gopro (Jul 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Awhhhh!! UA kinda scares me though. Think I'll just stick to Yohim when I try it!
> 
> I accidently put this in your thread somehow at first??? That is why it shows edited by me.



Well, you can't get the stuff anymore anyway. But I'll tell you, that stuff WORKED! Wish it was still around!


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## ZECH (Jul 23, 2003)

You can get it in capsules! Want a link?


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## ZECH (Jul 23, 2003)

Not sure if you can get the powder though??


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## gopro (Jul 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> You can get it in capsules! Want a link?



Actually, I know one guys that sells it, but his prices suck. What is the link you have??


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## ZECH (Jul 23, 2003)

http://www.bdcnutrition.com/
$25.00


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## gopro (Aug 5, 2003)

I'm real happy with the Lipo-Y. I have not really altered my training or calories over the last 4 weeks and my waist is about 1/2 smaller. Even more important is that my intercostals and abs are much more prominent. This product is a winner in my opinion.


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## Par Deus (Aug 5, 2003)

Even better, YHCL makes you hold water, so results are typically much more noticeable about a week after you stop.


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## gopro (Aug 5, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Par Deus *_
> Even better, YHCL makes you hold water, so results are typically much more noticeable about a week after you stop.



Yes I know. I will be watching for this when I stop usage. However, my bodyfat is now about 7% or so, and I'm holding very little water as it is. Still, I will let you know.

And yes, this is a VPX representative promoting an Avant product, LOL.


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## Twin Peak (Aug 6, 2003)

Glad it is going well for you.

Do you have a competition coming up?


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## gopro (Aug 6, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Glad it is going well for you.
> 
> Do you have a competition coming up?



Thanks...I may do Musclemania in November. I have to see how it goes.


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## Twin Peak (Aug 6, 2003)

I assume your injury has healed well then.

I hope I am as fortunate.


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## gopro (Aug 6, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I assume your injury has healed well then.
> 
> I hope I am as fortunate.



Well, my bad hammie eventually became a bad back and it even threw off my arm. I am training around my injuries as best I can. What happened to you?


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## Twin Peak (Aug 6, 2003)

Torn rotator cuff (2 cm tear) from benching.  Surgery is friday.


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## AC398 (Aug 6, 2003)

So how do you know if you should use lipodermY or ab-solved


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## Twin Peak (Aug 6, 2003)

Its mostly a guess based on generalities and personal history.  Reread the first few posts.


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## Par Deus (Aug 6, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by AC398 *_
> So how do you know if you should use lipodermY or ab-solved



Answered in other thread, but for those that may not see, pus I added a sentence:

Because fatty acid output to the portal vein stimulate HTA activation, and because you are a male (androgens exacerbate cortisol problems in the VAT), at your bodyfat, you very, very likely have some VAT issues, so Ab-Solved would likely be useful. There just are not going to be many males who do not have VAT issues at this bodyfat, unless they have low androgen/gynoid (lower body) pattern fat distribution)

LipoDerm is best used at lower bodyfat levels (like below 10-12%), for fat that you cannot otherwise get rid of -- just not cost-effective vs plain ol' EC. The main exception would be women, who know they store a lot of fat in their lower body.


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## gopro (Aug 6, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Torn rotator cuff (2 cm tear) from benching.  Surgery is friday.



Oh that really sucks! I wish you quick recovery.


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## Twin Peak (Aug 6, 2003)

Thanks.


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## ZECH (Aug 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Torn rotator cuff (2 cm tear) from benching.  Surgery is friday.


Sorry to hear that Steve! I wish you a speedy recovery!


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## mr.universe (Aug 7, 2003)

Hey stop by www.universalkits.com we have dropped our prices on all chemicals like Clen.

Best


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## naturalguy (Aug 7, 2003)

I can't believe that I am reading this......................there is no cream that is going to burn bodyfat!

Please, it sounds like you are an experienced bodybuilder and competitor, I am suprised that you are using this stuff.


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## ZECH (Aug 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> I can't believe that I am reading this......................there is no cream that is going to burn bodyfat!


They are many that can prove you wrong!
Go read the science behind it and talk to Par!


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## Twin Peak (Aug 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> I can't believe that I am reading this......................there is no cream that is going to burn bodyfat!
> 
> Please, it sounds like you are an experienced bodybuilder and competitor, I am suprised that you are using this stuff.



Your comments, and your ignorance, and your lack of reading comprehension astound me.

First, it is not a "cream", but that is a minor issue.

Second, no where is it claimed, alleged, or stated that Lipoderm-Y will "burn bodyfat."  Rather, when you are dieting, it will mobilize and release so called "stubborn bodyfat" so it will aid in fat loss in those areas.

Third, there is very detailed and specific scientific explanations of the mechanisms and pathways through which this works.

Fourth, he has already stated, despite or given his past experience in training and dieting, that he has noticed results.

Fifth, this product has in fact been on th emarket for years and there are hundreds is not thousands of real world feedback that establish the efficacy of Lipoderm-Y.

Please read before you type.  Also, it'd be nice if you could think before you type.


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## naturalguy (Aug 7, 2003)

Really, can you show me any studies that prove this?


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## Par Deus (Aug 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> I can't believe that I am reading this......................there is no cream that is going to burn bodyfat!
> 
> Please, it sounds like you are an experienced bodybuilder and competitor, I am suprised that you are using this stuff.



Rather than pulling ignorant statements from thine arse, how about you read the science, then come back and we will talk about the parts you disagree with:

http://www.avantlabs.com/magmain.php?issueID=3&pageID=15


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## naturalguy (Aug 7, 2003)

I appreciate the information. That is very creative marketing.


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## ZECH (Aug 7, 2003)

Marketing? Another incorrect statement!


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## Par Deus (Aug 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> I appreciate the information. That is very creative marketing.



I'm sorry that the science went above your head, sunshine.

Should you become more smarter and edumecated, at some later date, I will be happy to debate the science with you.


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## ZECH (Aug 7, 2003)




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## naturalguy (Aug 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_




I wasn't going to respond but since you find it funny...................

Par Deus obivously has a vested financial interest in this product as he sells them.

The science did not go over my head, I am just smart enough to see that it is clever marketing to sell a product. That is the bottom line.

There is no such thing as spot reduction and marketing like this prays on people emotional need to find that magic bullet for their improvement.


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## Par Deus (Aug 7, 2003)

Well, you since you fancy youself a good samaritan, lighting a candle for mankind (or at least bodybuilders), I would think you would want to inform the public why the scientific argument presented is not valid.


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## ZECH (Aug 7, 2003)

Yes marketing does work on uneducated consumers. But this product has no marketing. It sells because it works and by word of mouth. Same way his PH's did! There are several people on this board that are taking it right now. Look at their journals and see the improvements!


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## naturalguy (Aug 7, 2003)

Ok, let's assume you could deliver the required nutrients transdermally, there is no way that they would stay localized, for example if you put it on your "love handles" IF the nutrients got through transdermally, they would be cirulated through the blood stream and not stay in one area.


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## naturalguy (Aug 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Yes marketing does work on uneducated consumers. But this product has no marketing. It sells because it works and by word of mouth. Same way his PH's did! There are several people on this board that are taking it right now. Look at their journals and see the improvements!




I understand and I have read through the journals, however there are many factors that go into getting results. You cannot point to one product and say that did it. These people in their journals are also dieting and exercising.


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## ZECH (Aug 7, 2003)

It doesn't perform miracles. It aids!


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## Par Deus (Aug 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> Ok, let's assume you could deliver the required nutrients transdermally, there is no way that they would stay localized, for example if you put it on your "love handles" IF the nutrients got through transdermally, they would be cirulated through the blood stream and not stay in one area.



All of that is addressed, and backed with references in the write-up, which indicates you did not read it or did not understand it.


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## DaMayor (Aug 7, 2003)

Damned New Yorkers.


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## Par Deus (Aug 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> I understand and I have read through the journals, however there are many factors that go into getting results. You cannot point to one product and say that did it. These people in their journals are also dieting and exercising.



Yeah, and most had been doing so for several years, and when they added LipoDerm to the mix, they saw results that that they had not previously been able to achieve.


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## Jodi (Aug 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> I understand and I have read through the journals, however there are many factors that go into getting results. You cannot point to one product and say that did it. These people in their journals are also dieting and exercising.


I have been dieting and exercising for a few years.  I came to a complete halt in my fat loss in my waistline.  I mean stagnant for months.  I bulked over the winter time and then began a cut and followed the same diet I always followed, Bevery style diets but I bough Ab-Solved under TP's advice and I lost and entire INCH in my waistline.  Now if you have ever seen pics of me online here you would now that I'm not overweight.  So for me to drop and inch in my waist is a huge difference.

That is proof enough for me without the science which I don't fully understand anyway.  Also, when my bottle of ab-solved was gone, I didn't use it again for another month and I KEPT that inch I lost off without continuous use of the product.


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## naturalguy (Aug 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> I have been dieting and exercising for a few years.  I came to a complete halt in my fat loss in my waistline.  I mean stagnant for months.  I bulked over the winter time and then began a cut and followed the same diet I always followed, Bevery style diets but I bough Ab-Solved under TP's advice and I lost and entire INCH in my waistline.  Now if you have ever seen pics of me online here you would now that I'm not overweight.  So for me to drop and inch in my waist is a huge difference.
> 
> That is proof enough for me without the science which I don't fully understand anyway.  Also, when my bottle of ab-solved was gone, I didn't use it again for another month and I KEPT that inch I lost off without continuous use of the product.



I am not trying to be the jerk on the board who causes all sorts of trouble but you just said that you bulked up first then added Ab-Solved AND dieted down. I am sorry, if this cream (sorry I keep calling it that) really spot reduces, it would be the greatest invention in a long while and they would be selling for $300 per bottle and would not be able to keep up with the demand.


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## Jodi (Aug 7, 2003)

I bulked in December and started cutting in January.  I didn't buy my first bottle of Ab-solved til June!  How's that for proof?  Check my journals if you don't believe me. 

And this is my 6000 post


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## ZECH (Aug 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> I am not trying to be the jerk on the board who causes all sorts of trouble but you just said that you bulked up first then added Ab-Solved AND dieted down. I am sorry, if this cream (sorry I keep calling it that) really spot reduces, it would be the greatest invention in a long while and they would be selling for $300 per bottle and would not be able to keep up with the demand.


I think especially for men, this just may well be the greatest to come along for fat loss!


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## naturalguy (Aug 7, 2003)

I am not going to be annoying jerk on the board trying to disprove this. It is obvious that many people on this board feel very strongly about this product. I was just offering my opinion.

And yes, us New Yorker's can be a pain but there is an old saying "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"


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## ZECH (Aug 7, 2003)

There are many other boards where you will get the exact same replies! Do you think they are mislead also? 
www.bodybuilding.com
www.cuttingedgemuscle.com
www.anabolicminds.com

See for yourself.


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## Jodi (Aug 7, 2003)

Its not a matter of what I believe to be true but what I experienced for myself.  Proof is in the Pudding


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## Par Deus (Aug 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> I am not trying to be the jerk on the board who causes all sorts of trouble but you just said that you bulked up first then added Ab-Solved AND dieted down. I am sorry, if this cream (sorry I keep calling it that) really spot reduces, it would be the greatest invention in a long while and they would be selling for $300 per bottle and would not be able to keep up with the demand.



It requires a calorie deficit, as mentioned, which requires diet and/or exercise -- that is too much to ask for 95% of the population.

We have never done a single bit of traditional advertising or had a salesperon (until a month ago), yet we have sold thousands of bottles, solely on the science and word of mouth.


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## Mudge (Aug 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> IF the nutrients got through transdermally, they would be cirulated through the blood stream and not stay in one area.



There is poor blood flow through stubborn fat store areas.


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## Mudge (Aug 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Its not a matter of what I believe to be true but what I experienced for myself.  Proof is in the Pudding



I am always very highly skeptical of anything legal, but sometimes things do work, and I know Jodi is not full of cow pie so I am willing to trust her word. If there is anyone prejudiced against marketing and sales types, and legal supplements, its me.


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## gopro (Aug 7, 2003)

To naturalguy:

If anyone on this board has a reason to "put down" Lipoderm-Y, it would be me...someone that works for a rival supplement company. I understand that you have your opinion, and if the results were not there I would share it with you. When I try out a product I go to great lengths to test it as carefully and fairly as possible, especially when skeptical. Well, all I can say is the results are there. Forgetting about the science and forgetting about the hype and the desire to make money...I have used it and it produced results...period. In a way I was hoping that it didn't, but it did...and I'm not going to lie about that. Does it perform some sort of miracle and rip the fat off of your body? No. But there are measurable results to be had with this product, and I'd like to mention that I only used it ONCE per day and it is supposed to be applied twice.


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## Par Deus (Aug 8, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> In a way I was hoping that it didn't, but it did...



Hehe -- I know what you mean. This is how I was with 6-oxo -- as much as I like Ergo and my friend PA, I had some promising stuff that 6-oxo has made pointless to pursue.


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## gopro (Aug 8, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Par Deus *_
> Hehe -- I know what you mean. This is how I was with 6-oxo -- as much as I like Ergo and my friend PA, I had some promising stuff that 6-oxo has made pointless to pursue.




Yup, I understand completely, LOL!


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## OceanDude (Aug 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Rodrugg *_
> Alls I can say is be careful experimenting with supplements. My uncle Stanley knows this guy and he experimented with all kinds of supplements to make his muscles bigger and his elbows more pointy. He used hog root, rot gut, persimmon leaves, raspberry bark, sugar bees. Now he's all hobbled and a ticking time bomb. My uncle says sometimes he shakes uncontrollably for no reason and spits on the walls and tugs at his belt loops. He's been to the doctor about 80 times and they want to put him in a coma til they can find out what's wrong with him. My uncle says he'll probably wind up dead in a corn field somewhere.



Rod, you must tell your uncle stanley if he ever sees that person again that he must convince him to eat sassafras or drink sassafras rootbear or tea. It's got to cure him - it helped cure my pet toad of warts when I was a boy. But it's got to be freshly picked. If it can cure a frog of warts then it must be able to cure anything.


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