# Winstrol (Stanozolol) A Basic Guide by Heavyiron



## heavyiron (May 5, 2011)

*Winstrol (Stanozolol) *

Stanozolol has a anabolic rating of 320 and an androgenic rating of 30 making it an excellent steroid for promoting muscle growth with zero water retention. Stanozolol cannot aromatize into estrogen so estrogenic side effects like water retention are not a factor. Even the most gyno prone users can use Winstrol without any worry of gynocomastia.

Winstrol is excellent for dieting bodybuilders and is best employed near the end of a cutting cycle to keep the user anabolic but give a dry shredded appearance. Winstrol is also favored by speed athletes like runners, swimmers and even fighters who want to stay in a certain weight class but want to have an anabolic edge.

Winstrol also significantly lowers SHBG even at very low doses in a matter of a few days. This is significant because that equates to more free testosterone. Winstrol stacked with testosterone means more testosterone stays free or active. Some users report increased sex drive when stacking Winstrol with testosterone. Basically Winstrol makes your testosterone work better and it can raise libido.

*Administration Men*

A good starting dose for performance is 25-50mg Winstrol daily. I prefer to stack Winstrol with Testosterone Propionate. I also prefer shorter runs of around 3-6 weeks due to liver stress and Winstrol???s profound ability to lower HDL and raise LDL like most orals.

*Administration Women*

A good starting dose for performance is 10mg Winstrol daily for 6-8 weeks. A more adventuresome female may take up to 20mg daily however side effects will increase with dosage.

*Not all Winstrol is created equal*

Injectable Winstrol is a suspension as opposed to a solution. Suspensions have tiny particles that are visible with the naked eye. If left on the shelf for a few days many times the particles will sink to the bottom leaving the clear solvents and water on the top. Depending on the manufacturer, particle sizes vary meaning some Winstrol preparations can clog a 22 gauge needle. Ultra micronized Winstrol can easily pass through a 25 gauge needle making injections more comfortable.







*Can I mix water based Winstrol with oil based steroids?*

A common misconception is that oil and water based steroids cannot be injected together. This is absolutely false. You may mix water based Winstrol with any oil based steroid. The picture below is Cypionate and Winstrol together in the same syringe (Winny lava lamp).






*Bacteria and water based steroids (drinking your Winstrol)*

Bacteria have an easier time living in water based steroids than in oil based steroids. Winstrol is notorious for causing painful lumps at the injection site and for causing infections and or abscesses. This is because many underground labs improperly assemble steroids not because of the Winstrol itself. I do not recommend injecting UGL Winstrol due to the risk for infection unless the lab uses GMP standards. I only recommend human grade injectable Winstrol made at GMP standards. 

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/a...hen-using-under-ground-lab-graphic-video.html

Because injectable Winstrol can be ingested orally and because it can cause infections when injected some users drink their injectable Winstrol to avoid infections as gastric acid destroys the bacteria. You may drink your Winstrol however injecting has been proven to work better mg for mg than oral administration. However, injectable Winstrol tastes absolutely awful.

Overall Winstrol is an excellent cutting anabolic and also well suited for speed sports. It???s the ???summer??? steroid because it does not promote the watery look that so many other steroids do.






~heavyiron


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## SFW (May 5, 2011)

Do you think stacking it with Tbol would be too much stress on the liver? 

say 50 winny, 50 tbol for 6-8 wks?

edit: bridged. tbol 1-6 and winny 2-8


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## Hell (May 5, 2011)

Good Info....Thanks Heavy!!


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## World-Pharma.org (May 5, 2011)

Another great Article ...


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## living good (May 5, 2011)

good info as always


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## Supermans Daddy (May 5, 2011)

I've read several different schools of thought on effect difference ( not effectiveness) between oral and inject. Interested in your thoughts on that if you'd be so kind Homey.

Peace and Love


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## weightslayer (May 5, 2011)

i second that. also, Heavy, your opinion on the debate of lower bf levels to see optimal results from winny.


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## heavyiron (May 6, 2011)

SFW said:


> Do you think stacking it with Tbol would be too much stress on the liver?
> 
> say 50 winny, 50 tbol for 6-8 wks?
> 
> edit: bridged. tbol 1-6 and winny 2-8


To be honest I think stacking orals should only be done for very good reasons. In other words, if you are at the end of contest prep some guys will drop all injects 10-14 days out and only use orals to stay anabolic but dry. It's not uncommon for those last few weeks of prep that winny and anavar are stacked or winny and halo but usually duration is quite short. 3-6 weeks at the end. 

I have no problem if a guy wants to do short runs of 50mg daily anavar stacked with 50mg daily winny or even short runs of 100mg winny daily. Your proposal of 50mg winny and 50mg T-bol daily would be the upper end of dosing that I would be comfortable advocating. Your 5 week stack is within an acceptable range of duration for my tastes however I would strongly recommend cycle support as orals at these doses profoundly lower HDL (good) cholesterol and raise LDL (bad) cholesterol. Your stack will no doubt place stress on your liver as well. Stay well hydrated and avoid other stressful things like alcohol and acetaminophen.

With proper nutrition and training your proposed stack will illicit a hard dry look. I would personally use a little bit of Test Prop if it were me. Even 300mg weekly of prop would make a big difference in the outcome of the cycle. I would also run an AI like Aromasin or Arimidex with the test to keep E2 controlled and keep the dry but full look to the muscle bellies.


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## BigBird (May 6, 2011)

I'm using the real deal Zambon/Desma (Spain) winstrol depot amps 50mg ED.  This is the end of my 2nd week and it has given me a more profound harder and more vascular appearance not to mention the boost in strength to help me over the recent plateau I hit.  Awesome stuff.  I love it but I'll only be using for four (4) weeks total.  All good things must come to an end.  Stacking it with Tren, Test and Proviron.

Yes, the injectable version most definately works if ingested orally.  And yes, it tastes flat out terrible but a little grapefruit juice goes a long way.  I have heard/read that injecting it enables greater nitrogen retention as opposed to drinking it but I think the difference would not be enough to notice therefore I have settled for drinking it.


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## TGB1987 (May 6, 2011)

An easy way to drink it is to use a syringe to draw the oil out of a fish oil cap.  Inject winny in the empty fish oil cap and swallow.  CT made me aware of this technique a little while back.  Great article Heavy.  Winny is in my summer plan this year.


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## GH Consigliere (May 6, 2011)

great info heavy


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## Himik (May 6, 2011)

Good article once again heavy. I heard that injecting and drinking winny is pretty much the same thing, what's your opinion on that?


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## BigBird (May 6, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> An easy way to drink it is to use a syringe to draw the oil out of a fish oil cap. Inject winny in the empty fish oil cap and swallow. CT made me aware of this technique a little while back. Great article Heavy. Winny is in my summer plan this year.


 
That would help avoid the nasty flavor of it but I just pop the amp open, pour into a shotglass, add a little GF juice and down it.  Sometimes, I open the amp, shoot the winny down my throat - try not to gag - and then chase it with a swig of GF juice.  It's so nasty tasting that I'm amazed by it, in a sick way lol.


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## rayb (May 6, 2011)

Nice post. Thanks!


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## World-Pharma.org (May 6, 2011)

Zambon stop production long time ago,so now NO WAY to get real ZAMBON!

About DESMA,its real real hard to get amps out from pharmacy..even if you have license!

best-regards

wp


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## BigBird (May 6, 2011)

World-Pharma.org said:


> Zambon stop production long time ago,so now NO WAY to get real ZAMBON!
> 
> About DESMA,its real real hard to get amps out from pharmacy..even if you have license!
> 
> ...


 
The amps no longer have Zambon imprint. Zambon didn't stop production - they simply merged with Desma and print Desma on the amps. Zambon and Desma are the same. Mine are real. They are working 100%.  This is the best Winstrol I have ever used.


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## World-Pharma.org (May 6, 2011)

As i say NO MORE ZAMBON!


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## gamma (May 6, 2011)

If ur gonna take the injectable orally why not jus get tabs? I realizes winny is for cutting, but I have always been told to stay away for it if ur in hi impact sports ,from drying u out  to much. Risk of injury is to great .


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## heavyiron (May 7, 2011)

Supermans Daddy said:


> I've read several different schools of thought on effect difference ( not effectiveness) between oral and inject. Interested in your thoughts on that if you'd be so kind Homey.
> 
> Peace and Love


 
The science is limited but one thing that stands out to me is the fact that some experts state that the oral form of Stanozolol lowers SHBG. They are specific to leave out injectable Winstrol when discussing this so until proven otherwise we only have science that the oral version does this as far as I know. The injectable version may illicit this effect we just don't have confirmation yet. In the trial very low doses of oral winny were used so if you want to lower SHBG (and you should) then a dose of 20mg daily should be sufficient.

Also as you know, the injectable version is stronger mg for mg in regards to muscle building so the effect and effectiveness is different between oral and injectable Winstrol

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1989 Jun;68(6):1195-200.

*Sex hormone-binding globulin response to the anabolic steroid stanozolol: evidence for its suitability as a biological androgen sensitivity test.*

Sinnecker G, Köhler S.
*Source*

Department of Pediatrics, University of Hamburg, West Germany.

*Abstract*

Both the androgen-induced decline in serum sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels during puberty and the anabolic effect of exogenous testosterone are absent in patients with androgen insensitivity (testicular feminization). To determine whether the androgen-induced decline in serum SHBG could be used as a test of androgen sensitivity, we studied the effect of the anabolic-androgenic steroid stanozolol (17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha-androstano-[3,2-c]pyrazol) on serum SHBG in 25 control subjects, 3 patients with complete androgen insensitivity, and 4 patients with partial androgen insensitivity. *Stanozolol was administered orally for 3 days (0.2 mg/kg.day); blood samples were taken before and 5, 6, 7, and 8 days after the beginning of the test for measurements of serum SHBG.* The lowest value (i.e. the peak response) in each subject was used as the measure of the response to stanozolol. In the control subjects the mean nadir serum SHBG level was 51.6 +/- 5.9% (+/- SD) of the initial value (P less than 0.001). In the 4 patients with partial androgen insensitivity the nadir serum SHBG ranged from 73-89%, and in the 3 patients with complete androgen insensitivity it ranged from 93-97% of the initial value. *Thus, the decrease in serum SHBG after short term administration of stanozolol reflects androgen responsiveness* and, thus, may be used to differentiate patients with androgen insensitivity syndromes from those with other causes of male pseudohermaphroditism.

PMID: 2723028 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## faon (May 7, 2011)

Heavy, you left out advice as to how to keep our joints from completely drying out while on whinny


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## BigBird (May 7, 2011)

World-Pharma.org said:


> As i say NO MORE ZAMBON!


 
No more Zambon printed on the ampules but Zambon is still in business!  They have Desma printed on their amps.  I still call them Zambon as a habit.  Samer quality; the only thing that has changed is the name on the ampules.  Zambon and Desma are two names that are used interchangeably.  Dosn't matter.  The Desma comes from the same place and it's great stuff.  Zambon still exists as a company - they just happen to print "Desma" on their Winstrol Depot amps - the same ones I have.  As I say, the best quality Winstrol I've ever used.  Does WP offer Desma ampules?


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## BigBird (May 7, 2011)

gamma said:


> If ur gonna take the injectable orally why not jus get tabs? I realizes winny is for cutting, but I have always been told to stay away for it if ur in hi impact sports ,from drying u out to much. Risk of injury is to great .


 
Because my friend with the Desma amps made me an offer I couldn't refuse.  I happen to have had the opportunity to get the ampules from an old BB friend for great price that's why. Nothing more nothing less. No big deal, pop them open, drink and get stronger.


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## TGB1987 (May 7, 2011)

I like the injectable version because you have the choice of how you want to take them and you can vary the dose much easier than with a tablet.  If I don't feel like doing an inject with the winny I will just swallow it.  Nice and easy.


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## World-Pharma.org (May 7, 2011)

No i do not offer and sale DESMA,because almost only fakes are around! Go to Spain pharmacy and try to buy 1 box! NO WAY to got it...So....How most can still sale it? Will not talk more...


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## heavyiron (May 7, 2011)

weightslayer said:


> i second that. also, Heavy, your opinion on the debate of lower bf levels to see optimal results from winny.


Winny is more detectable from a performance standpoint when lower in bodyfat but it works just fine at any bodyfat. 

I have started diets with 30 lbs of extra flab and at the end of the cycle I was way leaner and bigger so I don't buy into the whole, you must have low bodyfat to cycle argument.


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## Ravager (May 7, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> Winny is more detectable from a performance standpoint when lower in bodyfat but it works just fine at any bodyfat.
> 
> I have started diets with 30 lbs of extra flab and at the end of the cycle I was way leaner and bigger so I don't buy into the whole, you must have low bodyfat to cycle argument.



I agree with you about the low bodyfat. Keep the incoming food clean, and juice up and work out... You will shed bodyfat. If not recomp it or both.


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## heavyiron (May 7, 2011)

Himik said:


> Good article once again heavy. I heard that injecting and drinking winny is pretty much the same thing, what's your opinion on that?


 

There is some good science that shows injecting Winstrol is superior to oral administration mg for mg as far as nitrogen retention. I agree with this science at this time.

*The effect of stanozolol on 15nitrogen retention in the dog.*

Olson ME, Morck DW, Quinn KB.
Animal Health Unit and Gastrointestinal Sciences, University of Calgary, Alberta. molson@ucalgary.ca

The objective of the study was to determine the influence of either oral or intramuscular administration of stanozolol on nitrogen retention in dogs by using a non-invasive 15N-amino acid tracer technique. Ten healthy, intact, adult male sled dogs received either stanozolol tablets, 2 mg/dog PO, q12h, for 25 days (Group 1, n = 5) or an intramuscular injection of 25 mg of stanozolol on Days 7, 14, 21, and 28 (Group 2, n = 5). A 15N amino acid (5.27 mmol) was infused intravenously into each dog on Day 0 (before stanozolol treatment) and on Day 31 (after stanozolol treatment). Urine was collected by catheterization from each animal 3 times daily for 3 consecutive days. The 15N-urea enrichment in urine was determined by high-resolution mass spectrometry and the total amount of urea in the urine was determined. Both oral and injectable stanozolol resulted in significant (P < 0.05) increases in amino acid nitrogen retention compared to pretreatment values. Oral stanozolol increased nitrogen retention from 29.2 +/- 8.2% to 50.3 +/- 9.2%, while stanozolol injection increased nitrogen retention from 26.6 +/- 9.9% to 67.0 +/- 7.5%. *The response to intramuscular administration was significantly greater than the response to the oral dosing regime.* Stanozolol increases amino acid nitrogen retention in dogs, as has been previously observed in rats. This action of stanozolol may be beneficial in dogs under stress of surgical trauma and chronic disease.

PMID: 11041505 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## Ravager (May 7, 2011)

Surviving the liver and getting into the bloodstream, vs complete bypass....


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## Justinbro (May 7, 2011)

Another Sticky....I love reading this stuff. I've always wondered if Winny and Proviron were the only ones that free up Test?


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## BigBird (May 7, 2011)

World-Pharma.org said:


> No i do not offer and sale DESMA,because almost only fakes are around! Go to Spain pharmacy and try to buy 1 box! NO WAY to got it...So....How most can still sale it? Will not talk more...


 
It can't be too difficult to get b/c I get it.  And my source has gotten this product regularly throughout the years.  Maybe I would have great difficulty getting it if I wasn't lucky enough to have my source?  

On a separate note, I'm considering injecting it just to see if I notice a difference.  Drinking it has worked so well that I would be amazed if effects are more pronounced with injecting it.  Like TGB said, it's nice to be able to choose injection or drink depending on my own personal preference for the day.  The study referencing the sled dogs is very interesting in that it points to superior nitrogen retention associated with injects versus oral administration.


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## gamma (May 8, 2011)

Sorry if I mis read or jus missed it all together. So if I am reading this right mg for mg  the injectable is stronger so you should abel to drink less of of the inject v.s the tab .  As far as mg is concerned for dosing?


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## heavyiron (May 8, 2011)

gamma said:


> Sorry if I mis read or jus missed it all together. So if I am reading this right mg for mg the injectable is stronger so you should abel to drink less of of the inject v.s the tab . As far as mg is concerned for dosing?


 Injecting winny is stronger. Drinking the winny is weaker.


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## TGB1987 (May 8, 2011)

I tend to shy away from straight “information” articles- in other words, I’ve never written the “How Androgens Work” article, because I’ve read it several times by several authors, and I really have nothing to add. Gene Transcription and Androgen Receptor Action has been written about over, and over, ad nauseum. All of the articles I’ve read on the topic are well written and well- they’re all the same. Don’t get me wrong, all of the articles which discuss the topic are very informative, but when you’re done reading them, you don’t really have anything you can “use” in your next cycle.
And I’m sure you know the difference between orals and injectables, but do yourself a favor and read this article, because I’m going to explain some things in here that you can use in your next cycle. Actually, I’m going to explain how you can use* Winstrol (Stanozolol)* as either an oral or injectable, and get a very different set of effects from the same drug- depending on which route of administration you choose to utilize.
First, lets go over the basics of Winstrol, so we’re all on the same page here. 
Winstrol is a steroid derived from the base structure of Dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is just testosterone which has been 5alpha-reduced, meaning it has had the c4-5 double bond removed by two hydrogen atoms. This is very interesting from a chemical/biological standpoint. Once this bond is removed, testosterone has become DHT, and DHT is the body’s most potent androgen. DHT has a slew of beneficial effects which are more pronounced than the hormone it’s created out of. DHT is able to increase androgen receptor proliferation for almost 24 full hours (1) DHT also has profound effects on the Central Nervous System (CNS), and this is why we often see profoundly increased aggression with athletes who are using DHT derivatives such as Masteron (which has a deceivingly low anabolic and androgenic rating). As an added benefit, DHT can not aromatize (convert via the aromatase enzyme) into estrogen. It’s also noteworthy that the injectable version of Winstrol is actually the same exact thing as the oral- it’s just micronized Stanozolol powder suspended in water (or sometimes oil). 
So what we have in *Winstrol* is DHT with two modifications- an added c17 methylation, and a very weird “pyrazol” group. The c17 methylation has been added in order to allow *Winstrol* to survive oral ingestion and the subsequent first pass through the liver. The pyrazol group is a bit weirder- what this means to you and I is that it has another whole “ring” attached to the four ring Steran Nucleus of DHT. Take a look over at the lower left portion of the two molecules below, and you’ll notice that* Winstrol* has an added cyclopentane (5 sided) group (the pyrazol group):​ 








*DHT**Winstrol*​ 
When we really take a look at Winstrol, the anabolic rating of this product is very high (320% that of testosterone) as compared to its androgenic actions (30% of testosterone). Despite this, *Winstrol* is really a disappointing drug for size gains. What we typically see with this stuff is some pretty decent strength gains and some nice fat loss if the user isn’t too sloppy with their diet. Not many people report huge weight gains off of *Stanozolol*. Although many drugs which bind tightly to the androgen receptor are suspected to exhibit their at least some of their lipolytic (fat-burning) effects through receptor bindingaffinity. The effects of androgens on the regulation of lipolysis in adipose precursor cells.(2),* Winstrol* remains a potent cutting drug, despite the fact that it has a relatively weak AR binding ability (3). What this tells me is that there’s some stuff going on with regards to Winstrol’s mechanism of action, which doesn’t involve androgen receptor mediated effects. Still,* Winstrol* is a very potent compound for enhancing protein synthesis (4-5 ) .
As previously discussed, it’s derived from DHT, and DHT is known to have ant-estrogenic effects (6) and* Winstrol* itself also has anti-progestenic properties (in at least some cases, where it may "block" that receptor) (7). So I think it’s safe to say that some of the “hard” look you can get in your physique from* Winstrol* is because of it’s ability to inhibit estrogen and progesterone- known culprits in making a physique appear smooth. Unfortunately, since it is 17aa, it is also liver toxic, especially more so when you inject it and it is subject to what is known as the “first pass” through the liver. The difference between taking oral vs. injectable *Winstrol*, even though it’s technically the same drug, is how and when your body metabolizes it. When you consume a drug orally, that drug is absorbed from the Gastrointestinal tract, where it then passes via the portal vein into the liver -where some drugs are metabolised. This “first pass” can mean that only a certain portion of the drug reaches your body’s bloodstream. As previously discussed, a 17aa has been attached to Winstrol to allow a sizeable portion to survive this metabolism.
First pass metabolism can occur in both the gut and the liver, and where this happens can vary with different drugs. First pass metabolism actually occurs in your gut for some drugs and in the liver for others. Once it has been metabolized, it enters the bloodstream. It’s important to note that when a blood is metabolized in the Gastrointestinal tract, the blood leaving the Gastrointestinal tract does not go right to the heart, but actually still passes through liver via the hepatic portal vein and then ultimately returns to circulation via the hepatic vein. The liver is your body’s filtration unit, and removes large quantities of nutrients, dangerous toxins (or fun toxins, depending on what they are) and other substances from the blood.
So as you can see, when you take an oral steroid such as *Winstrol*, undergoes a first-pass metabolism in the both the intestines as well as liver. Some drugs can be absorbed more or less totally intact, after only moderate metabolic activity, while some are absorbed only after very extensive metabolic activity. Once it is through this first pass, a given drug then circulates in the blood until it is acquired by another tissue, such as skeletal muscle. Now, if the drug reaches the liver again, it may undergo what is cleverly known as “second-pass” metabolism. Of course, in the case of* Winstrol*, an injectable version is available, and when we compare the oral and injectable versions of* Winstrol* and their effects in your body, I think there’s some surprising differences. The injectable is (naturally) put right into your bloodstream and only undergoes the far less extensive second pass metabolism, while the oral must endure the gut and liver on it’s first pass before ending up in circulation.
_*Now, here’s the interesting part: When you inject Winstrol, instead of taking it orally, you actually get more nitrogen retention (4) (and hence we can infer, more new muscle tissue is being built). SO if you are trying to use Winstrol to build new muscle tissue, the injectable version is going to be far superior to the Oral version. However, there are some advantages that the oral version has over the injectable, including a possible “synergy” with other drugs- but only (primarily) when taken orally. *_
_*While in the liver, on it’s first pass, Winstrol is exposed to a variety of enzymes and proteins. To understand how a possible synergy between Winstrol and other steroids may be possible, a little background on Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) is first necessary. For our purposes here, all we need to know is that SHBG is a glycoprotein produced in the liver, which binds to testosterone and makes it biologically unavailable to do all the things we want it to do- like building muscle. It serves to transport testosterone throughout the body, but while it remains bound to testosterone, the testosterone can not exert it’s anabolic effects.* _​











​ 
_*As you can surmise, a very large portion of the testosterone in your body is bound to SHBG. Wouldn’t it be great if we could lower SHBG? With Winstrol we can. *_
_*A fairly conservative oral dose of .2mg/kg of Winstrol has been shown to lower SHBG by close to 50%. (8)For me (200lbs) this would mean I would only need around 18mgs/day to free up half of my SHBG bound testosterone! For my omnipresent and hypothetical “100kg bodybuilder”- only 20mgs would be needed (he’s 220 lbs for the metrically impaired among us). Now, with less SHBG floating around in me, my anabolic steroid cycle will be more effective, right? Right.*_
_*But why can we only expect such a dramatic lowering of SHBG with the oral? Well, obviously, we’re taking advantage of the first pass through the liver, where we can have our Winstrol interact with SHBG where it’s produced- in the liver…without going through the bloodstream first. *_
_*When we take a look at a study done comparing injectable vs. oral contraceptives, we find that the oral version at 70mgs/week (10mgs/day given orally) is more effective at affecting SHBG levels than 400mgs/week given via an injection! (9)In this study, testosterone undecanoate was given at a constant dose along with norestisterone (which raises SHBG). What we see is that when norestisterone is given orally, it produces a far greater effect on SHBG, than when it is administered via an injection. And this is even when the doses of the injectable are 4x higher!*_
_*Here’s a chart, illustrating exactly what I’m talking about in this study, which I think suggests very strongly that injectable versions of drugs, when compared with the oral version, will have nowhere near as much of an effect on SHBG:*_​ 







Group I (Black Circles): Injections of 200 mg NETE at study wk 0, 6, 12, and 18 plus injections of 1000 mg TU at study wk 2, 6, 12, and 18 (T free window). Group II (White Diamonds): Injections of 1000 mg TU together with 400 mg NETE at study wk 0, 6, 12, and 18. Group III (Grey Squares): Injections of 1000 mg TU at study wk 0, 6, 12, and 18 combined with daily oral 10 mg norethisterone acetate (NETE) from week 0 to 24 (9)​ 
_*Of course, in this study, they’re looking at oral vs. injectable versions of a SHBG raising drug- but what we can take away from it is that SHBG interaction with oral compounds is far more pronounced than it is with injectables. *_
_*So lets take a small amount of Winstrol with our cycles, and free up some of those steroids we’re taking, right? Right!*_
_*Unless of course, we’re talking about women here…I was recently asked why I recommend that women use the injectable version of Winstrol over the oral. I was asked this question by someone, who I assumed had a female friend who was considering using Winstrol. I then realized I was totally incorrect- not about Winstrol, but about the reason behind the question. You see…I saw a picture of the man who had first asked me the question, and it’s readily apparent to me that he probably doesn’t actually know any women. But still, his question is valid and bears repeating and answering here. *_
_*I recommend that women avoid the oral version of this product for the same reason that men will find that it gives them an increased synergy and effectiveness in their cycles. *_
_*When SHBG is lowered in women, there is more free testosterone floating around. And as we’ve seen, the oral is going to affect SHBG exponentially more than the injectable will. When we lower SHBG too much in women, we see a strong positive correlation with hyperandrogenism (10 ), and hirsuitism (abnormal growth of body hair), as well In fact, non-SHBG-bound testosterone may actually be the defining characteristic for identifying hyperandrogenism in women. In addition, low SHBG contributes to menstrual irregularity.(11)*_
_*Finally, and (partially) anecdotally, we also see a greater incidence of clitoral enlargement and acne when the oral version of Winstrol is used by women instead of the injectable. The reasons for this are obvious- When we increase free testosterone by lowering SHBG, we increase the amount of testosterone which is able to be 5a-reduced to DHT. DHT is the primary culprit for steroid induced acne, and is also the hormone responsible for external genital enlargement. Clearly, this is why we see the increased level of clitoral hypertrophy as well as acne when oral Winstrol is used by women.*_
_*We can also see increased acne when men use Winstrol orally, but these effects are relatively minor when a 2mg/kg dose is being used to increase the effectiveness of other steroids in a cycle. This isn’t carte blanche to go using Winstrol for an extended period of time under the excuse that it’s increasing the overall effectiveness of the cycle. Stanozolol has some of the worst liver toxicity (hepatoxicity) of any oral steroid on a mg for mg basis. In addition, it’s deleterious effects on your lipid profile (Cholesterol) are also very pronounced, even at low doses- 6mgs/day of Stanozolol can lower HDL (good cholesterol)by 33% and raise LDL (bad cholesterol) by 29% (12 ). *_
_*So, hopefully, you’ve reached the end of this article and realized that Winstrol can be used in any cycle to increase the effectiveness of it, but that it must be used sparingly due to it’s possible hepatoxicity and lipid profile effecting properties. Still, when used in heavy testosterone-based profiles, at a dose that will cut your SHBG levels in half, it can increase you other steroids effectiveness quite a bit…but when maximal protein synthesis is wanted, you need to inject it.*_
_*There you go…the differences between oral and injectable Winstrol, and how you can use either form to maximize your gains! And yes, Lyle, you can drink Winny.*_
*References:*​ 



Neural Androgen Receptor Regulation: effects of androgen and antiandrogen. Lu S, Simon NG, Wang Y, Hu S, J Neurobiol 1999 Dec; 41(4):505-12
Endocrinology. 1990 Feb;126(2):1229-34. Xu X, De Pergola G, Bjorntorp P
[*]Endocrinology. 1984 Jun;114(6):2100-6. 
[*]Can J Vet Res. 2000 Oct;64(4):246-8.
[*]J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1997 Sep 15;211(6):719-22
[*]MacDonald PC, Madden JD, Brenner PF, Wilson JD, Siiteri PK 1979 Origin of estrogen in normal men and in women with testicular feminization. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 49:905–916
[*]Agents Actions. 1994 Mar;41(1-2):37-43.
[*]Sex Hormone Binding Globulin response to the Anabolic steroid: Stanozolol: Evidence for its suitability as a Biological Androgen Sensitivity test. J Clin Metab Endocrinol 68: 1195, 1989) 
[*]The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87,No. 2 530-539. An Effective Hormonal Male Contraceptive Using Testosterone Undecanoate with Oral or Injectable Norethisterone Preparations Axel Kamischke, Tanja Heuermann, Kathrin Krüger, Sigrid von Eckardstein, Ilka Schellschmidt, Alexander Rübig and Eberhard Nieschlag Institute of Reproductive Medicine of the University (A.K., T.H., K.K., S.V.E., E.N.), D-48129 Münster, Germany; and Schering AG (I.S., A.R.), D-13342 Berlin, Germany 
[*]Non-sex hormone-binding globulin-bound testosterone as a marker for hyperandrogenism DC Cumming and SR Wall J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., Nov 1985; 61: 873 - 876.
[*]Menstrual Irregularity in Women with Acromegaly G. A. Kaltsas, J. J. Mukherjee, P. J. Jenkins, M. A. Satta, N. Islam, J. P. Monson, G. M. Besser, and A. B. GrossmanJ. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., Aug 1999; 84: 2731 – 2735
[*]JAMA. 1989 Feb 24;261(8):1165-8 
© 2010 MESO-Rx. All rights reserved. [Terms of Use] 



 
Read more from this MESO-Rx article at: Winstrol - Oral versus Injectable (More Different Than You Think!) by Anthony Roberts​​


----------



## ROID (May 8, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> Injecting winny is stronger. Drinking the winny is weaker.



A lot of people will argue over that statement. 

It has always seemed like common sense to me.


----------



## Marini382 (May 8, 2011)

good to know, good to know


----------



## gamma (May 8, 2011)

Yeah I get that part as far as  inject v.s oral. My question is how does drinking the injectable compare to taking the tabs  mg wise?


----------



## 07bobber (May 8, 2011)

What are the effects on your joints with winny?

Sent from my Thunderbolt


----------



## heavyiron (May 8, 2011)

07bobber said:


> What are the effects on your joints with winny?
> 
> Sent from my Thunderbolt


 I have never had any issues with joint problems on winny but some guys/gals do report that.


----------



## TJTJ (May 8, 2011)

Everyday I learn something new. Makes me want to kick these orals in the face and start pinning them down! 

Pun intended 

Good stuff HeavyIron


----------



## Winny_ng 24/7 (May 8, 2011)

I like how I have the same Winstrol posted in the pics above. Must be some good shit  can't wait to pin it!!!!!


----------



## TakeItToTheLimit (May 8, 2011)

What would be better for an end of a cycle tbol or winny? I'm doing a dbol and sus 14 week cycle


----------



## World-Pharma.org (May 8, 2011)

post pics Winny_ng 24/7


----------



## Grozny (May 9, 2011)

Great article as all always, its vary hard for UG labs to produce a quality suspensions drugs because a  Suspension are not to be filtered and cannot be sterilized by heat, resulting the only way to manufacture them is by Aseptic Process (class A cleanroom) and most important, Aseptic raw material.

I think that we can say DO NOT USE UGL SUSPENSIONS (water winstrol, water testosterone base) because all of them are having high bacteria count.

In clear words:

- you don't dry heat or humid heat sterilize the water suspensions
- you don't filter the water suspensions

- you need WFI (water for injection: osmosed, distilled, kept heated at 90 Celsius until production time).

- you cannot buy WFI (water for injection). you need to make the water very short time before you make the water suspension production. After you osmosed and distilled the water (bidistilled) you need to keep it in the glass/boiler at 90Celsius until you use the water in production.

So if you want to make water suspensions (winny, test suspension) it can ONLY be made in Aseptic conditions which are very very hard to achieve condition and not even GMP factories that have injection line don't achieve, they are certified for final sterilization or filtration sterilization, not for aseptic purpose. Aseptic line certification is different and you need a Class 10 clean room which is not to be found in most GMP factories (because those factories don't make water suspensions).

Bottom line, you can't make winstrol in water or test in water in your house, UGL or even a good pharmaceutical lab that doesn't have aseptic conditions. If you make it in non-aseptic conditions, its bacteria count is huge and is possible to cause infections, practically you are making a health hazard injection.

Other potential and quite risky alternative  is for a people who want to use UGL suspension should just ask about the product and wait for replies from the many experienced users here on Iron.


----------



## theCaptn' (May 9, 2011)

my cat recieves injectable stanazol for it's sore leg


----------



## BigBird (May 9, 2011)

theCaptn' said:


> my cat recieves injectable stanazol for it's sore leg


 
Are you sure you're not taking 49mg for yourself and leaving the last 1mg for the cat?


----------



## Winny_ng 24/7 (May 9, 2011)

Part of my next cycle I plan to run. =) WINNYNG!


----------



## theCaptn' (May 9, 2011)

BigBird said:


> Are you sure you're not taking 49mg for yourself and leaving the last 1mg for the cat?


 
I can neither confirm or deny such an accusation


----------



## TakeItToTheLimit (May 9, 2011)

Winny_ng 24/7 said:


> Part of my next cycle I plan to run. =) WINNYNG!




nice picture


----------



## World-Pharma.org (May 9, 2011)

Winny_ng 24/7 said:


> Part of my next cycle I plan to run. =) WINNYNG!




nice pic.


----------



## heavyiron (May 9, 2011)

Grozny said:


> Great article as all always, its vary hard for UG labs to produce a quality suspensions drugs because a Suspension are not to be filtered and cannot be sterilized by heat, resulting the only way to manufacture them is by Aseptic Process (class A cleanroom) and most important, Aseptic raw material.
> 
> I think that we can say DO NOT USE UGL SUSPENSIONS (water winstrol, water testosterone base) because all of them are having high bacteria count.
> 
> ...


 Good points, thank you!


----------



## TGB1987 (May 9, 2011)

Well I started using my AP winny today.  First inject at 50mgs next one is on wed.  So far no pain or redness at all.  I am very surprised how painless this stuff was.  I have always heard it was a painful inject since it is a water based.  I would not use any other Winny product other than AP or BD brand for injecting because I don't not have any other brand that I trust enough.  As stated above water based AAS are prone to bacteria if not made up to proper standards.


----------



## BigBird (May 9, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> Well I started using my AP winny today. First inject at 50mgs next one is on wed. So far no pain or redness at all. I am very surprised how painless this stuff was. I have always heard it was a painful inject since it is a water based. I would not use any other Winny product other than AP or BD brand for injecting because I don't not have any other brand that I trust enough. As stated above water based AAS are prone to bacteria if not made up to proper standards.


 
The Desma amps are also virtually pain free.  The smaller the micro crystals the less pain with inject is what I hear/see/read.  I was all ready to cry (not really lol) and absorb discomfort today with inject but was delighted when pinning was completed.  Used a 27 gauge, 1/2" pin in the delt.


----------



## ZECH (May 9, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> Well I started using my AP winny today.  First inject at 50mgs next one is on wed.  So far no pain or redness at all.  I am very surprised how painless this stuff was.  I have always heard it was a painful inject since it is a water based.  I would not use any other Winny product other than AP or BD brand for injecting because I don't not have any other brand that I trust enough.  As stated above water based AAS are prone to bacteria if not made up to proper standards.



What needle size did you use and where did you inject?


----------



## theCaptn' (May 9, 2011)

I was injecting 23"s into delts - no pain whatsoever


----------



## TGB1987 (May 9, 2011)

25G 1 in.  I injected 1cc into my upper outer quadrant of my right glute.  Painless.  And it went throught the needle like water.  I running a light cutting cycle to dial in for my jiu-jitsu comp coming up in 18 days.  Winny and low dose of test 300-400mgs a week.  I was already running the test for 4-5 wks.


----------



## TGB1987 (May 9, 2011)

I am very surprised at how smooth the winny was.  I really expected much more discomfort.  I didin't even have a spec of blood after inject and I feel great.  I was thinking I might have an issue with the 25G but the AP Winny is very small micronized particles apparently.  I am using the Winny at 50mgs eod.


----------



## heavyiron (May 10, 2011)

29g right quad, 25g left quad, 22g glute~mixed with cyp. All went perfect except the 29 was too small so I couldn't load it fully..


----------



## BigBird (May 10, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> 29g right quad, 25g left quad, 22g glute~mixed with cyp. All went perfect except the 29 was too small so I couldn't load it fully..


 
Heavy, try a 27 ga. 1/2" for Winstrol Depot.  Not sure about quads but PERFECT for delts.


----------



## Himik (May 10, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> I am very surprised at how smooth the winny was.  I really expected much more discomfort.  I didin't even have a spec of blood after inject and I feel great.  I was thinking I might have an issue with the 25G but the AP Winny is very small micronized particles apparently.  I am using the Winny at 50mgs eod.




I am very happy you like the product, but don't you think this sounds like advertisement that should be kept in sponsor's forums?


----------



## TGB1987 (May 10, 2011)

NO .  I like the Brand not any Sponser.  Let's not go there.


----------



## Justinbro (May 10, 2011)

Seems like Winstrol V and Test Suspension would be ideal ED with Provirion. Maybe even add Tren Ace to keep the ED all in one.


----------



## heavyiron (May 10, 2011)

BigBird said:


> Heavy, try a 27 ga. 1/2" for Winstrol Depot. Not sure about quads but PERFECT for delts.


I used the small pins just to test the ultra-micronization.

I prefer 22-23g myself. I inject large volumes and I don't like waiting.

6ml of various aas went in my glutes today...


----------



## heavyiron (May 10, 2011)

Himik said:


> I am very happy you like the product, but don't you think this sounds like advertisement that should be kept in sponsor's forums?


 Asia Pharma is not a sponsor.


----------



## TGB1987 (May 10, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> I used the small pins just to test the ultra-micronization.
> 
> I prefer 22-23g myself. I inject large volumes and I don't like waiting.
> 
> 6ml of various aas went in my glutes today...


 
With those amounts it would take a long time with a small gauge needle.


----------



## mlc308 (May 10, 2011)

Thanks for the article.  I wish I had found this site sooner than I did.


----------



## Winny_ng 24/7 (May 11, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> Injecting winny is stronger. Drinking the winny is weaker.


 
is 50mg EOD or 25 ED (both inj) better in your opinion?


----------



## heavyiron (May 11, 2011)

Winny_ng 24/7 said:


> is 50mg EOD or 25 ED (both inj) better in your opinion?


 For a competitor ed. For a gym rat eod.


----------



## heavyiron (May 11, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> With those amounts it would take a long time with a small gauge needle.


 Ended the day with 12ml total injected. Frontload is complete =)


----------



## Justinbro (May 11, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> For a competitor ed. For a gym rat eod.


So would mixing it with an ED or EOD Test like Prop or TNE take the sting out some?

Oh! Would taking a Creatine only drink with Winstrol orals flush it out? I noticed on urinalysis cleansers that creatine is in them so I figured it might flush orals. I had a habit of taking a strombafort50 before the gym with a creatine drink and always wondered if I flushed it out. If so then wouldnt creatine be good PCT?


----------



## TGB1987 (May 12, 2011)

I don't think that creatine will flush orals out of your system.  I am pretty sure they include creatine in the detox drinks for those who use them to pass drug tests.  This is because if you are drinking loads of water to water down your urine sample it will make your creatinine (by product of creatine) levels too low making it seem like you tried to do this.  By taking creatine it makes in show up in your urine to seem like just a random urination.


----------



## heavyiron (May 12, 2011)

Justinbro said:


> So would mixing it with an ED or EOD Test like Prop or TNE take the sting out some?


 
Asia Pharma winny is smooth, no pain when injecting at all.


----------



## TGB1987 (May 12, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> Asia Pharma winny is smooth, no pain when injecting at all.


 
I can second this statement.  I have injected twice so far and it has been no more painful  then some other brands of test I have used over the years.  I was surprised because this was my first time injecting winny and I was expecting pain and there was none.


----------



## TGB1987 (May 12, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> Asia Pharma winny is smooth, no pain when injecting at all.


 
I can second this statement.  I have injected twice so far and it has been no more painful  then some other brands of test I have used over the years.  I was surprised because this was my first time injecting winny and I was expecting pain and there was none.


----------



## Justinbro (May 12, 2011)

Good to know. Can the same be said for their test suspension if ordered together?


----------



## TGB1987 (May 12, 2011)

I have never used the test suspension but I would assume that it would be like the Winstrol.  Maybe Heavy has tried the test suspension.​


----------



## Marini382 (May 13, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> I can second this statement.  I have injected twice so far and it has been no more painful  then some other brands of test I have used over the years.  I was surprised because this was my first time injecting winny and I was expecting pain and there was none.



Painless winny injection? Wow thats definitly good news


----------



## World-Pharma.org (May 13, 2011)

yeah...all customers who use Stanabolic by Asia Pharma like it..


----------



## heavyiron (May 15, 2011)

Marini382 said:


> Painless winny injection? Wow thats definitly good news


Yup, very high quality. Asia Pharma is the smoothest Winny I have ever used.


----------



## Saney (May 15, 2011)

For Injectable Winny, is 100mg EOD too much If i'm just a bum living in my van outside of Gold's Gym?


----------



## TGB1987 (May 15, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> Yup, very high quality. Asia Pharma is the smoothest Winny I have ever used.


 
I must agree here.  I expected there to be much more injection pain.  I have done 3 injections with less pain than I had with some UGL brands of Test in the past.  I am only using 1cc at a time.  I hit my outer quad yesterday and it really isn't even the slightest bit sore.  Very surprised and happy so far.


----------



## heavyiron (May 15, 2011)

Das Sloot said:


> For Injectable Winny, is 100mg EOD too much If i'm just a bum living in my van outside of Gold's Gym?


 That dose is just fine but I personally would stack it with some testosterone.


----------



## World-Pharma.org (May 15, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> I must agree here.  I expected there to be much more injection pain.  I have done 3 injections with less pain than I had with some UGL brands of Test in the past.  I am only using 1cc at a time.  I hit my outer quad yesterday and it really isn't even the slightest bit sore.  Very surprised and happy so far.





Its real nice to hear.
Normal all guys have problems with Winstrol inject since UGL make it real bad with big crystals inside,etc.


----------



## Saney (May 15, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> That dose is just fine but I personally would stack it with some testosterone.



No shit you corn hole! Testosterone is the "Understood" anabolic to always be ran.

So on 100mg EOD of Winny, whats the longest I could safely run that?

And how much Test EW would you say I could run at the least?


----------



## BigBird (May 16, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> I used the small pins just to test the ultra-micronization.
> 
> I prefer 22-23g myself. I inject large volumes and I don't like waiting.
> 
> 6ml of various aas went in my glutes today...


 
Duly noted.  However, there is no wait with the tiny micronized Winstrol.  I could, in theory, plunge the entire cc in 2 secs but I plunge slowly - taking about 10-15 secs.  Good HG Winstrol with tiny crystals passes right through the 27 ga. like throwing a hot dog down a hallway.  I prefer pinning 3 ccs max in glute (w/ 1-1/2" 22ga.) and this entails the Test and Tren.  Therefore, 27 ga. 1/2" works like a charm with the Winny Depot.


----------



## heavyiron (May 16, 2011)

Das Sloot said:


> No shit you corn hole! Testosterone is the "Understood" anabolic to always be ran.
> 
> So on 100mg EOD of Winny, whats the longest I could safely run that?
> 
> And how much Test EW would you say I could run at the least?


 I like winny around 6 weeks max on duration but you could go a little longer. The lowest I would go on the test would be 300mg weekly but I would prefer to see 600mg weekly.


----------



## heavyiron (May 16, 2011)

BigBird said:


> Duly noted. However, there is no wait with the tiny micronized Winstrol. I could, in theory, plunge the entire cc in 2 secs but I plunge slowly - taking about 10-15 secs. Good HG Winstrol with tiny crystals passes right through the 27 ga. like throwing a hot dog down a hallway. I prefer pinning 3 ccs max in glute (w/ 1-1/2" 22ga.) and this entails the Test and Tren. Therefore, 27 ga. 1/2" works like a charm with the Winny Depot.


 That day I ended up pinning 12ml of VARIOUS aas not just winny.

Anyway, I like bigger pins but thanks for the point of view.


----------



## Saney (May 16, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> I like winny around 6 weeks max on duration but you could go a little longer. The lowest I would go on the test would be 300mg weekly but I would prefer to see 600mg weekly.



So at least a 1 to 1 ratio

Got it.


----------



## BigBird (May 16, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> That day I ended up pinning 12ml of VARIOUS aas not just winny.
> 
> Anyway, I like bigger pins but thanks for the point of view.


 
Well - 12 ccs certainly puts a twist on things.  Much better and practical to consolidate as much as possible in that case.  Can't say I've ever actually had a *12 cc day* but I'm working my way up there, lol.


----------



## heavyiron (May 16, 2011)

BigBird said:


> Well - 12 ccs certainly puts a twist on things. Much better and practical to consolidate as much as possible in that case. Can't say I've ever actually had a *12 cc day* but I'm working my way up there, lol.


 It was a first for me. LOL! 

My EQ is only 100mg/ml. The Winny is only 50mg/ml.


----------



## Saney (May 17, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> It was a first for me. LOL!
> 
> My EQ is only 100mg/ml. The Winny is only 50mg/ml.



Why is your EQ half the Dose?

and isn't anything stronger than 50mg/ml for winny painful?


----------



## heavyiron (May 17, 2011)

Das Sloot said:


> Why is your EQ half the Dose?
> 
> and isn't anything stronger than 50mg/ml for winny painful?


 EQ comes in various doses as low as 50mg/ml.


----------



## Himik (May 17, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> EQ comes in various doses as low as 50mg/ml.



Heavy, wasn't this the original dosage form, when it was used for horses?


----------



## BigBird (May 17, 2011)

Himik said:


> Heavy, wasn't this the original dosage form, when it was used for horses?


 
Yes, it was 50mg/ml in a large 50ml vial.  Originally came from a country in South America and label had a Horse, Bull and Dog on it.


----------



## Saney (May 17, 2011)

Heavy, with a ratio, please describe which is harsher on the liver and by how much (Injectable Winny Vs Oral version)


----------



## Winny_ng 24/7 (May 18, 2011)

Das Sloot said:


> Heavy, with a ratio, please describe which is harsher on the liver and by how much (Injectable Winny Vs Oral version)



x2
????


----------



## BigBird (May 18, 2011)

I would guess the oral is slightly harsher due to the first pass through the liver (which the injectable avoids); however, the depot is still harsh on liver nonetheless, just a wee bit less harsh than the oral.  That's my educated guess.  What do you think/know about this, Heavy?


----------



## heavyiron (May 18, 2011)

Himik said:


> Heavy, wasn't this the original dosage form, when it was used for horses?


 Originally EQ was a human preparation before Squibb brought it to the vetinary market. Ciba sold a brand called Parenabol that saw some clinical application but I don't know the mg/ml of the original human EQ.


----------



## returnofthdragon (Jun 5, 2011)

With oral winny 10 mg,  if you wanted to take 50 mg a day,  would you take it all at once or spread out?


----------



## heavyiron (Jun 5, 2011)

returnofthdragon said:


> With oral winny 10 mg, if you wanted to take 50 mg a day, would you take it all at once or spread out?


 I would experiment if I were you. 

Based on half lives, twice daily dosing makes sense but I never could tell the difference so I just dose mine all at once.


----------



## theCaptn' (Jun 5, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> I would experiment if I were you.
> 
> Based on half lives, twice daily dosing makes sense but I never could tell the difference so I just dose mine all at once.


 
My caps were 40mg, so it was only practical to dose once. 

The only difference I noticed was when dosing in the afternoon I couldnt get to sleep too well.


----------



## Glycomann (Jun 5, 2011)

Nice write up Heavy. Winstrol was my favorite steroid when I was fighting.


----------



## returnofthdragon (Jun 5, 2011)

What is the half life?


----------



## Glycomann (Jun 5, 2011)

AS far as the joint pain that some users get, I found it useful to start low and titrate up the dose until the pain became evident and then back down a little. Also, some Brits a few years ago found that Raloxifene seems to help with the joint pain.  Raloxifene is a SERM used for osteoporosis. Nolvadex seems to work too.  I don't have numbers but it works for me.  Since I am older I think I am more susceptible to the jjoint pain than others.


----------



## Mr.BIG (Jun 7, 2011)

I will be using this product very soon, I can't wait to see the effects!


----------



## OTG85 (Jun 7, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> To be honest I think stacking orals should only be done for very good reasons. In other words, if you are at the end of contest prep some guys will drop all injects 10-14 days out and only use orals to stay anabolic but dry. It's not uncommon for those last few weeks of prep that winny and anavar are stacked or winny and halo but usually duration is quite short. 3-6 weeks at the end.
> 
> I have no problem if a guy wants to do short runs of 50mg daily anavar stacked with 50mg daily winny or even short runs of 100mg winny daily. Your proposal of 50mg winny and 50mg T-bol daily would be the upper end of dosing that I would be comfortable advocating. Your 5 week stack is within an acceptable range of duration for my tastes however I would strongly recommend cycle support as orals at these doses profoundly lower HDL (good) cholesterol and raise LDL (bad) cholesterol. Your stack will no doubt place stress on your liver as well. Stay well hydrated and avoid other stressful things like alcohol and acetaminophen.
> 
> With proper nutrition and training your proposed stack will illicit a hard dry look. I would personally use a little bit of Test Prop if it were me. Even 300mg weekly of prop would make a big difference in the outcome of the cycle. I would also run an AI like Aromasin or Arimidex with the test to keep E2 controlled and keep the dry but full look to the muscle bellies.


What about duperdrol and winny
SD week 6 -10  20 mg 

Winny week 6-12    50mg


----------



## SFW (Jun 7, 2011)

I think im bout to pop the top on this milky, delicious BD winny. As soon as i get to 10% that is!


----------



## BigBird (Jun 7, 2011)

returnofthdragon said:


> What is the half life?


 
I believe half-life for the oral tabs is approx. 9 hrs or so.  I have seen the half-life for the Depot listed at 24 hrs although since it is an aqueous solution, it is difficult to pin point a traditional accurate half-life to it.  But 24hrs is the general consensus on the liquid depot.


----------



## heavyiron (Jun 24, 2011)

Now in amps!


----------



## Glycomann (Jun 24, 2011)

I will bet dimes to dollars that Asia Pharma doesn't mess up your joints like the UGL stuff.


----------



## gamma (Jun 24, 2011)

Glycomann said:


> I will bet dimes to dollars that Asia Pharma doesn't mess up your joints like the UGL stuff.


  One sure way to find out...


----------



## J.thom (Jun 24, 2011)

damn, that needle in the second picture looks huge lol.


----------



## World-Pharma.org (Jun 25, 2011)

nice pic.


----------



## heavyiron (Jun 25, 2011)

_*Nice and smooth...*_


----------



## Justinbro (Jun 25, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> _*Nice and smooth...*_



gotta love spot injections lol


----------



## Justinbro (Jul 7, 2011)

I can also say that the Aquabolic Test Suspension is painless and just the usual soreness a day later with instant results. why the fuck anyone would want to pin prop ed instead of this is beyond me.


----------



## NCjuiced (Nov 4, 2011)

I have seen a bit of oil based winstrol floating around.  Has anyone tried it?  Does it require as frequent injections?  Can you drink it?


----------



## World-Pharma.org (Sep 4, 2012)

nice article,need to bump it!


----------



## World-Pharma.org (May 27, 2013)

*great article for summer!*


----------



## Nightowl (May 28, 2013)

I have to ask, when you have a chance...does it make a difference to use oil or water with drinking it? I hate the idea of lumps, and I really need to freakin walk, so must come to solution.


Also, what would dosage be for winstrol in canines? Let's say a beginner @ 50 lbs? Might be way out in left field, but I thought I'd ask. HI, can we talk about gear and animals? I saw a bber and his dog, too cute! Is there some place for this question or questions here within IM?


----------



## OfficerFarva (May 28, 2013)

Nightowl said:


> I have to ask, when you have a chance...does it make a difference to use oil or water with drinking it? I hate the idea of lumps, and I really need to freakin walk, so must come to solution.
> 
> 
> Also, what would dosage be for winstrol in canines? Let's say a beginner @ 50 lbs? Might be way out in left field, but I thought I'd ask. HI, can we talk about gear and animals? I saw a bber and his dog, too cute! Is there some place for this question or questions here within IM?



You are a retarded sick individual.  Give up all of your animals than drink some antifreeze, please.


----------



## Nightowl (May 28, 2013)

OfficerFarva said:


> You are a retarded sick individual. Give up all of your animals than drink some antifreeze, please.



stick your nose out of this,
NO one is asking you!


----------



## theCaptn' (May 28, 2013)




----------



## Nightowl (May 29, 2013)

theCaptn' said:


>



hey sexy slim how goes it?
I hope all is fine in the world of the downunder. Be in your neck of the woods next year, vacation from a vacation LOL


----------



## irish viking (May 29, 2013)

so would a run of 30mg ed for the last 30 days of test e 500mg cycle be good to dry up a little


----------



## Nightowl (May 30, 2013)

HI,

got info


----------



## Popeye. (May 30, 2013)

Fuck winny! made my old ass feel even older!


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## irish viking (May 31, 2013)

6 months out from wedding running a 10 week test e 500mg a week,arimidex .5 eod,tbol 60 mg ed for 30 days kicker.pct clomid/nolva.would winny at end of cycle for 3 weeks at 30/40 mg ed help dry up???


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