# Great post by John meadows regarding Cholesterol



## tinyshrek (Mar 25, 2012)

I want to share my opinion on certain aspects of cholesterol. I am sure there are some who disagree, but that's ok...I'm giving my thoughts anyway.<br />
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So LDL and total cholesterol readings...that is what we should focus on right?<br />
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My answer is hell no, and let me explain why in the simplest way i can.<br />
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- First of all there isn’t good or bad cholesterol at all. It’s all the same initially. The <i>carriers</i> of cholesterol, lipoproteins are where we get HDL and LDL. (It's just the name of the carriers that tote it around our blood).<br />
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Should we be happy when our LDL is in range. My opinion...not necessarily. Do you want to know what really matters?<br />
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Think of a road….cars (or carriers/lipoproteins) are carrying passengers (cholesterol). Does it matter how many people are in the cars? Nope. What causes traffic jams and accidents, are the number of cars on the road. The road is our arteries by the way in my analogy. This is called particle number/concentration. The more cars you have, the more danger there is.<br />
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Now.....key point here...<br />
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The number you get for your LDL is just the amount being carried around in your LDL carriers we'll call them, not the number of carriers/cars on the road - again, that is called particle concentration.<br />
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Now, here is another part I want to drive home.<br />
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Ok so now think about this. Let’s say we have 10 gallons of Karboload, in 10 containers. Now let’s say we have 10 gallons of Karboload in 100 containers. It’s still the SAME amount of karboload (cholesterol), but in the second case, you  have 100 gallons so MORE PARTICLES! You could have a traditionally great LDL number. It does NOT matter. What does matter is how many particles are carrying it around. The more you have, the more the risk of crashing on the road (lodging in the lumen in an artery). Typically people with insulin resistance have this problem or people that eat junk carbs frequently.<br />
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Why is this? Because their carriers/lipoprotiens have much more triglycerides in them. So there is less cholesterol due to this in the carrier.....so we need more carriers...again, not good. If you want to increase particle concentration or the number of carriers, just go to 7/11 and drink a load of HFCS laden Big Gulps every day.<br />
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Another factor that is really important is Apo B. If people seem interested in this thread and topic, we can go down that road, cause it's important as well. We can also get into fibrinogen, C-reactive protein, measures that really matter.....not total cholesterol.....<br />
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Moral of this, you want to get a test done that measures LDL concentration (number of carriers) and LDL particle size..as there does seem to be alot of evidence that smaller cars on the road crash easier and aren't as bouyant.<br />
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Sorry if this doesn't make sense...it's later, but all this cholesterol nonsense being perpetuated just annoys me.


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## exphys88 (Mar 26, 2012)

There's actually 50 years of research linking high cholesterol levels to an increase risk of heart disease and stroke.  There's also decades of research that suggests that if we lower our cholesterol, we lower our risk of heart attack/stroke.  Of course, other risk factors matter too, this is why we always look at the amount of risk factors and their severity.  Hypertension, Diabetes, HDL/LDL ratio, Triglycerides, Obesity, Stress, Smoking etc.  
This kind of info is careless and completely disregards massive amounts of data.


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## tinyshrek (Mar 26, 2012)

Massive amounts of data that is paid for by pharmaceutical companies that want to sell drugs for cholesterol issues. There are several scientist on YouTube that say very similar things. What we think of a root cause for heart issues now will be completely different in two decades. The human body is to unpredictable to be able base SOLID FACT off some studies that were published.


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## exphys88 (Mar 26, 2012)

Many studies have been done by others than pharma companies.


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## tinyshrek (Mar 26, 2012)

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you ExPhys I just think the school system is fucked( as I'm in college now after a 7 yr lay off). A lot of what is tought is based off what the government and medicinal community want to be learned. Not what is necessarily truth. Just like everything else in this country it's corrupted. Wish we could do proper studies of BODYBUILDERS and athletes and see ways certain chemicals and diets effect blood, bone growth, organ growth etc. in a controlled environment....


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## exphys88 (Mar 26, 2012)

There's def some corruption, especially w pharma comps. I just don't share the conspiracy theory mentality that the whole medicine field is corrupted.


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## Standard Donkey (Mar 26, 2012)

eggs will kill you.. my doctor told me that


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## exphys88 (Mar 26, 2012)

I love eggs.  Remember that most drs don't take more than 1 nutrition class in their schooling.


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## tinyshrek (Mar 27, 2012)

I personally think cholesterol in food is complete bullshit as are fats which I think are still misunderstood


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## Grozny (Mar 27, 2012)

Quite stupid post imo, my general advice would just be to be careful, do not take too many risks, and AWAYS monitor your health. I speak to many BB's that don't even look at their cholesterol anymore because they just don't want to know. This isn't a good idea, of course. The blood test while on cycle shows you what the AAS are actually doing to your body. 

I do believe there is sufficient evidence that in AAS abusers it reflects an unfavorable shift in the management of lipids and arterial plaque.This is just an observation, but I've saw too many young men develop serious heart issues after abusing AAS and ignoring elevated cholesterol for years not to think it is of critical importance to focus on.


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## exphys88 (Mar 27, 2012)

Regardless of what you think about cholesterol or fats that we eat, it's well documented that elevated cholesterol levels, especially in the presence of low HDL and high triglycerides dramatically increases your chances of heart disease.  The biggest determinants of elevated cholesterol are being overweight, lack of exercise, eating tons of saturated fat and genetics.  And, of course using aas will also raise the levels.


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## tinyshrek (Mar 27, 2012)

That I can agree with.


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## tinyshrek (Mar 27, 2012)

ExPhys I'm just trying to get opinions I'm not trying to argue I just like bringing up good points and learning. Most people don't even know what the jobs of hdl and LDL are in The body or the importance cholesterol and sat fats when it comes to your body and it's hormones


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## sofargone561 (Mar 27, 2012)

whats cholesterol?


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## exphys88 (Mar 27, 2012)

I totally understand.  What we hold to be true, may not be true in 20 years.  That is the beauty of science, not a flaw as some people think.  As long as we are making our decisions based on the science that is currently available to us, then we're doing the right thing.  
A good area that needs to be studied is whether there is a difference between saturated fats from animal sources and sat fat from plant sources (coconut).  Some claim that the sat fat from coconut doesn't lead to atherosclerosis.  I think it's a good hypothesis, but we just haven't seen enough literature on it yet.


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## tinyshrek (Mar 27, 2012)

Very interesting as I love cooking wit coconut oil off season...


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## Standard Donkey (Mar 27, 2012)

well if coconut oil causes atherosclerosis then i am fucked..


ill post up my blood work in a week or so. Ill put it in this thread


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## tinyshrek (Mar 27, 2012)

Good shit!


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## exphys88 (Mar 27, 2012)

If you're on cycle, you'll prob have elevated cholesterol levels and we couldn't really come to any conclusions about anything.


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## exphys88 (Mar 27, 2012)

And there's no blood test for atherosclerosis.


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## Standard Donkey (Mar 27, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> And there's no blood test for atherosclerosis.



well yeah but they would indicate how "at risk" you are right?

and yes being on cycle would alter lipids dramatically..but i think they would be even more skewed if there is high consumption of saturated fats that are considered health (like coconut oil)


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## exphys88 (Mar 27, 2012)

The question is "does sat fat from coconut raise blood chol levels like sat fat from animal products does?" we need more research


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## tinyshrek (Mar 27, 2012)

Exactly because the perception  is that coconut oil is good for you.... Yet meat sat fat is bad for you.... Hhmmmmmm


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## Standard Donkey (Mar 27, 2012)

tinyshrek said:


> Exactly because the perception is that coconut oil is good for you.... Yet meat sat fat is bad for you.... Hhmmmmmm



well the fat in animals can contain all sorts of chemicals and contaminants.. because that is where those things are stored (as opposed to the liver and kidneys which are the common misconception..makes me lol)

however if you have high quality organic grass fed beef... the fat should be beneficial.. at least according to Meadows


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## exphys88 (Mar 27, 2012)

tinyshrek said:


> Exactly because the perception  is that coconut oil is good for you.... Yet meat sat fat is bad for you.... Hhmmmmmm



I've only heard this from lay people.  dieticians don't see any difference in saturated fat from coconut vs meat.  mostly because it's a new idea that there is a difference.  there is tons of research that a diet high in saturated fat results in high cholesterol levels though, it's well established.


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## tinyshrek (Mar 27, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> well the fat in animals can contain all sorts of chemicals and contaminants.. because that is where those things are stored (as opposed to the liver and kidneys which are the common misconception..makes me lol)
> 
> however if you have high quality organic grass fed beef... the fat should be beneficial.. at least according to Meadows



I am very aware of this anyone who eats grass fed beef knows there is a huge difference in taste and the way you feel compared to cheap shit... Meadows is def right about but that goes back to common sense. He recommends grass fed beef, free range eggs, oats, brown rice, fruits and veges etc. which is basically what everyone ate 100 years ago anyways. Just avoid processed shit in general and eat what you can afford


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## exphys88 (Mar 27, 2012)

tinyshrek said:


> I am very aware of this anyone who eats grass fed beef knows there is a huge difference in taste and the way you feel compared to cheap shit... Meadows is def right about but that goes back to common sense. He recommends grass fed beef, free range eggs, oats, brown rice, fruits and veges etc. which is basically what everyone ate 100 years ago anyways. Just avoid  processed shit in general and eat what you can afford



I completely agree.  I'd like to see some studies on grass fed beef vs crap beef, but I bet the USDA would have a say in it.  Some of his stuff in the article is good too, especially the comment about inflammation.  We're seeing a link between inflammation and many diseases.


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## tinyshrek (Mar 27, 2012)

Would be interesting to see blood work on cycle with high sat fats then do another cycle with low sat fats and compare results.... Of course there will always be variables but it might be something cool to do for myself


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