# Ephedrine + Aspirin + Caffeine



## michael74737 (Dec 22, 2008)

Anyone have any opinion about this:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"To date it has not been determined if the ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin combination can  enhance muscle growth and fat loss in healthy, exercising adults. However, based on what  we know about the ??Ÿ-agonist system, it is certainly possible.  It is important to  note, however, that a small handful of subjects among the large subject pool had to drop  out of the study due to an intolerance to the supplementation regime. So it appears that  most people can use the ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin combination with no problems, while  a small handful of people may be intolerant. A consultation with a physician is suggested  before beginning this supplementation regime."[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

Source: Muscle Growth and Fat Loss by Stimulating the Beta-Agonist System - The Role of Ephedrine, Caffeine, and Aspirin


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## michael74737 (Dec 22, 2008)

P.S

If you have heard of this dose anyone know the dosages for each?


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## Built (Dec 22, 2008)

Beta agonists haven't been shown to enhance muscle growth in humans. Sadly.

That being said, EC can be very helpful while cutting if for no other reason than it helps suppress appetite a little while providing extra energy and no extra calories. That plus the enhancement of insulin resistance (if you can't store glycogen very well, your muscles don't have it to burn so they burn fat instead) makes it an excellent diet drug. 

Provided you already know how to diet, of course...


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## Built (Dec 22, 2008)

michael74737 said:


> P.S
> 
> If you have heard of this dose anyone know the dosages for each?


Mar 2000: Thermogenic Weight Loss Products: FAQ and Price Guide (pg 6)


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## michael74737 (Dec 22, 2008)

Have they been show to have no effect on muscle development or is there just no evidence yet?


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## michael74737 (Dec 22, 2008)

Also, id like to ask. Since Ephedrine has been banned in the USA, what is your opinion on the effective of Synephrine?


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## Built (Dec 22, 2008)

Ephedrine has never been banned in the USA.


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## Built (Dec 22, 2008)

michael74737 said:


> Have they been show to have no effect on muscle development or is there just no evidence yet?



The nature of hypothesis testing is that you test the treatment to see if it has an effect. You start out assuming the negative - that is, that there is no treatment effect. 

In any test on humans, there has never been an anabolic effect due to these substances. The null has never been rejected.


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## michael74737 (Dec 22, 2008)

Built said:


> The nature of hypothesis testing is that you test the treatment to see if it has an effect. You start out assuming the negative - that is, that there is no treatment effect.
> 
> In any test on humans, there has never been an anabolic effect due to these substances. The null has never been rejected.



I hear you. Where can I find ephedrine? I assumed it was banned when Ephedra was. Just the same, how do you rate the effectiveness of Synephrine?


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## Built (Dec 22, 2008)

Synephrine is not a player IMO.


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## nni (Dec 23, 2008)

synephrine is not an ephedrine replacement. you can find epherdine hcl in some bronchio aids, or the herbal in doses less than 10mg in some products.

standard dosing is 25mg e 200mg c. you can add the a or not, no biggie.


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## ironbull (Dec 23, 2008)

how much of a difference in weight loss would the ec stack with good diet be vs no ec with good diet


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## Built (Dec 23, 2008)

Very very little.


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## ironbull (Dec 23, 2008)

Built said:


> Very very little.



then why is it so popular??


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## Built (Dec 24, 2008)

It helps suppress appetite and helps give you some energy to train while operating under a deficit. Helps protect LBM a bit too, by enhancing insulin resistance.


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## ironbull (Dec 24, 2008)

Built said:


> It helps suppress appetite and helps give you some energy to train while operating under a deficit. Helps protect LBM a bit too, by enhancing insulin resistance.


 i heard people say i was better than clen. true?


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## ARMYDOC (Dec 28, 2008)

Ephedrine and Caffeine are fine in moderate doses.  Ephedrine will increase oxygen availability- the downside is the vasoconstriction, increase in resting heartrate, and elevated blood pressure. Seems to me they were trying to counteract this effect somewhat with the aspirin- a blood thinner, or anticoagulant.  I will take the occasional pseudoephedrine tablet myself for an occasional pickup; just be careful with something the cookers use as their main ingredient in meth


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## Built (Dec 28, 2008)

Ephedrine isn't meth.


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## ARMYDOC (Dec 28, 2008)

I didn't say it was meth, it is the base ingredient


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## Built (Dec 29, 2008)

Okay, but wild Mexican yams are a base ingredient for bioidentical sex hormones. The conversion takes place in a lab, not the body. Same thing with ephedrine or pseudoephedrine and meth - the conversion can only be performed outside the body.


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## ARMYDOC (Dec 29, 2008)

ok, I agree.  no more playing "stretch the metaphor".  My primary concern is that ephedra, ephedrine, pseudoephedrine is a substance that I see abused often.  I see soldiers come in with irregular hearbeats and breathing difficulty from misuse, not always deliberate, of these chemicals.  Just want people to be aware of how they can stack up and sneak up on you.  Its usually an innocent mistake from not knowing how many stimulants they took; "yeah doc, i had a stuffy nose so I took some decongestant, drank my usual monster-sized coffee, drank my preworkout shake- then they go running or spend an hour doing squats and wonder why their heart is trying to crawl out of their chest!  whew, I'm  done.  I need a double sized Blue Monster....


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## Ben dur (Dec 29, 2008)

ARMYDOC said:


> I need a double sized Blue Monster....



because theres absolutely no stimulants in the "blue" monster....


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## ARMYDOC (Dec 29, 2008)

those who can't do...teach!


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## Jeff the Repper (Jan 2, 2009)

The ECA stack is about the best fat loss stack you cak take and is very safe within reason. I bellieve pure Ehpedrine has been banned for sale in the US but is readily available in Canada and cheap. I don't think you can compare it to Clen but it is safer. The dosage posted is about right too 20-25Mg Eph with 200MG Caffeine and one adult aspirin ( not sure of the MG's in that one ) taken three times daily. Do be sure to cycle it because your body will adapt to the stack. I would say no more than four week cycles.


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## Built (Jan 3, 2009)

Pure ephedrine HCL has never been illegal in the USA. The herb ephedra is not available. 

Drumlib suggests NOT cycling it. Mar 2000: Thermogenic Weight Loss Products: FAQ and Price Guide (pg 3)


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## AKIRA (Jan 3, 2009)

If its not illegal, why couldnt I find it at stores a couple years back?


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## Merkaba (Jan 3, 2009)

AKIRA said:


> If its not illegal, why couldnt I find it at stores a couple years back?



liability and insurance!


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## Merkaba (Jan 3, 2009)

ARMYDOC said:


> ok, I agree.  no more playing "stretch the metaphor".  My primary concern is that ephedra, ephedrine, pseudoephedrine is a substance that I see abused often.  I see soldiers come in with irregular hearbeats and breathing difficulty from misuse, not always deliberate, of these chemicals.  Just want people to be aware of how they can stack up and sneak up on you.  Its usually an innocent mistake from not knowing how many stimulants they took; "yeah doc, i had a stuffy nose so I took some decongestant, drank my usual monster-sized coffee, drank my preworkout shake- then they go running or spend an hour doing squats and wonder why their heart is trying to crawl out of their chest!  whew, I'm  done.  I need a double sized Blue Monster....



Before I knew about the different names of caffeine and its cousins I would get these symptoms.  Maybe if I had a cold and took some medicine with pseudoephrine in it, later take some more then do my pre workout caffeine and later my heart is skipping.  I can be pretty sensitive to caffeine so I learned it the hard way.  I don't like things messing with my ticker.  When I was in college I would get up and have two small cups of coffee and some of the old,I think, Ripped Fuel back when it had ephedra in it I'm sure.  Man I would be geeked and loved it, zoom through classes right til about 12 when I would crash and either have to take more or go to sleep.  If I didnt have class I would take a nap and get up and maybe pop a few more.  Back then I could run all day too.  Surpised I wasnt a statistic.


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## FishOrCutBait (Jan 3, 2009)

Merkaba said:


> Surpised I wasnt a statistic.



thing is you didnt take ten doses, and you werent hugely out of shape, (or wearing thirty pounds of pads in 100+ degree weather with crazy humidity) which are the killers


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## ARMYDOC (Jan 3, 2009)

I think its just common sense- which i think most of us use.  Its just a matter of reading the label and realizing "ok, if I drink this its like 5 cups of coffee", and planning accordingly.  oh yeah, and DRINK WATER!


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## ebrake74 (Jan 20, 2009)

*Ephedra Product*

I have taken this product, it works great.

Yellow Bullet With Ephedra - Order Yellow Bullet With 25mg of Ephedra


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## Ngordyn (Jan 20, 2009)

for the person who said it is readily available in Canada , that may be true , but it is not legal no store can have a record of sale or purchase, the product can only be bought under the counter and with cash.........however a lower does of ephedrine used a decongestant is available in 8mg tablets , the weight loss pills if i a m not mistaken use somewhere around 300 - 400 mg of Ma Huang


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## Built (Jan 20, 2009)

Ngordyn said:


> for the person who said it is readily available in Canada , that may be true , but it is not legal no store can have a record of sale or purchase, the product can only be bought under the counter and with cash.........however a lower does of ephedrine used a decongestant is available in 8mg tablets , the weight loss pills if i a m not mistaken use somewhere around 300 - 400 mg of Ma Huang



That's actually not true. It is and has always been legal to sell ephedrine HCL in Canada. 

Allow me to introduce Health Canada's Drug Product Search engine. 

The DIN for ephedrine HCL, 8mg made by Kaizen, a US company out of LA, is 02236722.

Kindly enter that DIN into the database. You will see the status is listed as "active". This is an OTC medication that is legal to be sold as a decongestant. It may NOT be sold as an energy or diet aid. 

The highest dose that may be sold in Canada is 8mg, and it is definitely over the counter. I purchase it regularly at Popeye's, and it's right out on the shelf. 

The herb Ma Huang is often standardized to contain 8mg of the active per 100mg of the herb - so 300mg Ma Huang would contain the equivalent of 24mg ephedrine HCL, the typical amount in the standard "stack" of 200mg caffeine with 25mg ephedrine (ASA optional).


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## Ngordyn (Jan 20, 2009)

no i believe that and i know that 8mg tablets are legal and sold over the counter, i mean the old pills, which are now under the counter with more then that per tablet , and i do know the Ma Huang being standardized to about 8% ephedrine, i do apologize for my post for before, in my head it sounded ok but i did re read it and saw i was not very clear .....my apologies


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## Built (Jan 20, 2009)

Ah - no worries.

Ephedrine HCL - even in the 8mg tablets - CAN be hard to find. Supplement stores sell it, but the drugstores don't. So odd. 

Quite honestly, I'd just as soon they came in the smaller doses. It's easier to titrate your dose - something that's very helpful when you decide to go "off": drop from 24mg in your stack 3x a day, to 16mg (leave the caffeine in), then 8mg (still with the caffeine), then just caffeine, then drop the caffeine down to 2x a day, then off.

Or stay on the caffeine all year, like I do.

*Hi!*


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## Ngordyn (Jan 20, 2009)

one day i will learn to explain myself 

me i take an ECA stack that is 350 mg Ma Huang , 350 mg kola nut and 25 mg white willow bark , now when i come off of this it is a bitch i can only do it in 28mg ephedrine jumps so for my relief phase i buy a bottle of 8 mg from hercs

now i do have a question i know the stack is generally 1:10:10 now im not to worried about the aspirin content 25 mg is fine by me , but with the ephedrine to caffeine ratio  being 1:1(well close to it) i was wondering if i should up the caffeine ratio and what would be a good way , like just drink a coffee or something or get a caffeine pill


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## Built (Jan 20, 2009)

Personally, I prefer to avoid herbals and pre-mixed formulations where at all possible. Not only is the chemical stuff cheaper, it's easier to tailor and titrate your doses from the individual components. Plus, with the non-herbal stuff, you know EXACTLY what you're getting. 

The usual ephedrine:caffeine stack is 20mg ephedrine to 200mg caffeine, or 1:10.

A small cup of coffee is what, about a hundred mg of caffeine? If you're taking it with 8mg of ephedrine, that should "feel" about right.


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## Ngordyn (Jan 20, 2009)

well i usually use a chemical stuff and mix it out myself , but i got this bottle from a friend of mine who couldn't stay dedicated to it. so he just gave it to me 

each pill is 28mg E 
               35mg C     it uses kola nut as a caffeine replacement 10% standardized , now i want to finish this bottle off cause i figure why not its there   + plus its almost exactly finishes at the time i take a break from it. after this i will go back to my old formula which was 1:10 

so just buy a large coffee and i will be fine?


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## Built (Jan 20, 2009)

Coffee if you like it, or caffeine tablets otherwise.

Personally, I hate the smell of coffee so I just take pills. 

What brand is it?


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## Ngordyn (Jan 20, 2009)

therma cutts by scientifik athletika

and ya i do like coffee so thats not a problem


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## bryker12 (Jan 23, 2009)

I am new this site and am looking for some help. I'm 28 just under 5 '2'. my weight is down to 112 with 12% bf. I've decided to compete in figure in april/may. I go to a small gym and the trainers aren't really experienced with training for competition. My trainer is an old wrestling coach and only a hand full of people from the gym have ever competed. None of whom would be any help to me. I can rely on my trainer to help develop my body and I do my own nutrition.

I do 3 low days of 1300 with a 50p/25c/25f with 1 high day 1800 30p/50c/20f. I carb and calorie taper on low days.

I started taking ECA a few weeks before xmas and decided this was want I wanted to stick with through my training. I relaxed through the end of dec and early  jan and started back on my nutrition cycle and the ECA stack jan 10th.

I feel like I am missing out on proper supplementing. Should I be taking Creatine? HMB? a pump product?

Also is ECA my best coice? I've been reading a lot about Clen or Cytomel.

If you wouldn't mind giving me your opinion or any advice I would really appreciate it.


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## CG (Feb 5, 2009)

Ok so here goes my first noob question in a while.. Everyone on an ECA stack right now, where do you get the E?!? All I find is cold medicine of stuff. Packed with extra crap..


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## Ngordyn (Feb 5, 2009)

Cgrant said:


> Ok so here goes my first noob question in a while.. Everyone on an ECA stack right now, where do you get the E?!? All I find is cold medicine of stuff. Packed with extra crap..





if you live close to canada you can cross the border and go to a training supplement store such as GNC or HERC's and buy Ephedrine in 8mg tablets or find a reliable site to order from

to byrker12 (sorry if spelt wrong) i do not know to much about the clen or cyotest so i cant be much help , but i do use the eca stack and se results through any stage of the year , i just change dosages depending on whether im bulking or cutting


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## CG (Feb 5, 2009)

Ok.. I live in NJ and EPHEDRINE IS LEGAL in the USA. Why the f can't I find it anywhere without extra shit attached!!! Anyone have a reliable online source?


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## Ngordyn (Feb 5, 2009)

it is banned as a weight loss supplement,   but can be found in the form ephedrine HCL


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## CG (Feb 5, 2009)

Ngordyn said:


> it is banned as a weight loss supplement,   but can be found in the form ephedrine HCL



Soo.. Are you trying to tell me its impossible to get???


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## Built (Feb 5, 2009)

No, he's telling you that you'll have to purchase it as pure ephedrine HCL and make your own weight loss supp out of it. Same way bodybuilders have been doing it for years.


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## Merkaba (Feb 5, 2009)

FishOrCutBait said:


> thing is you didnt take ten doses, and you werent hugely out of shape, (or wearing thirty pounds of pads in 100+ degree weather with crazy humidity) which are the killers



Nah I played football bro.  
But I think I was off of it during what I think was one of the hottest days I've ever been outside.  I really can't describe how hot it was on the field and i really just kinda was in more awe than pain the whole day.  I lost 12 pounds in one practice.  We had a lineman that lost 24.  Later after practice he was in the food line in the cafeteria and suddenly you heard, "arhhh....."  then a cling clang clang....He had a whole body sieze/cramp and dropped his tray and dishes.  Went to the hospital and got an IV f electrolytes and came back a few hours later.  IV's are awersome!  Nothing like em.  

Like I said...Glad I'm not a stat.


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## CG (Feb 6, 2009)

Built said:


> No, he's telling you that you'll have to purchase it as pure ephedrine HCL and make your own weight loss supp out of it. Same way bodybuilders have been doing it for years.



well, if i could get my hands on a legit site to get say, 10 mg pure ephedrine HCL, great, but so far the onlyplace i have found is that bs spam snd nutrition, (the snd canada ripoff site)... so yeah.. 

totally not looking forward to taking cold medicine all the time and working my way up a DEA watchlist as a meth mixer..  lol


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## CG (Feb 6, 2009)

ohhhhhh, and a quick phone call to Kaizen "we havent mfg'd ephedrine HCL in about 4 years" now idk if its bs or legit, but he said it was due to "outside pressure"..


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