# Are AB workout pointless?



## feinburgrl (May 18, 2011)

Everyone have abs but it's cover up with body fat. Is there any reason to do ab workout?


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## Bonesaw (May 18, 2011)

mine aren't covered with body fat.  its core strength, of course it *isn't *pointless.  Abs stabilize a lot of lifts I would think.


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## cshea2 (May 18, 2011)

Pointless for getting a 6-pack.
Not pointless for core stability which will help you with big lifts like a squat.


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## Kusakup (May 18, 2011)

Never worthless, the bigger your abs the more bf you can have and have them still show.


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## Curlingcadys (May 18, 2011)

as allready mention NOT POINTLESS very essential......CORE CORE CORE an often forgotten about area to put good focus on...abs are just part of it though.


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## Merkaba (May 18, 2011)

Relatively pointless for six pack AND fucking "Core"...the marketing word that came along a few years ago.  I was around when noone was using the word.  Nothing changed since then except the ability to be able to sell products, balls, dvds and machines without using the word crunch (because noone wants to do those) all the while using ripped six pack abs as a backdrop for selling you the idea.  Any of the main complex lifts will work the core enough to be more than functional.  As referenced by the above posts, anytime you see or think of core you think of abs. Nevermind the stuff behind them.


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## buddhaluv (May 18, 2011)

everyone has abs, it's just covered in fat, the only way to fix that is through diet & cardio.

& I practically never work out abs with weights, if you do you have a chance of thickening the waist which is not ideal for a bodybuilder.


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## Bonesaw (May 18, 2011)

work out abs like you would any other muscle, with weights.  Put a small plate behind your head and do situp/crunches that way they get worked really good and you don't have to do 100's of them.


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## ihateschoolmt (May 18, 2011)

buddhaluv said:


> everyone has abs, it's just covered in fat, the only way to fix that is through diet & cardio.
> 
> & I practically never work out abs with weights, if you do you have a chance of thickening the waist which is not ideal for a bodybuilder.


What about all the compound movements what involve the abs? They're all weighted. I don't see why weighted sit ups would be any different.


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## Merkaba (May 18, 2011)

Bonesaw said:


> work out abs like you would any other muscle, with weights.  Put a small plate behind your head and do situp/crunches that way they get worked really good and you don't have to do 100's of them.




The 90's just called and ....


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## Bonesaw (May 19, 2011)

hey! im new come on.  some one told me that and it makes sense to me.


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## bentoverrows (May 19, 2011)

I dont train abs.

Interesting thing I noticed is they get stressed a lot during heavy db rows. And a bit while doing Front Squats.


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## ponyboy (May 19, 2011)

Merkaba said:


> Relatively pointless for six pack AND fucking "Core"...the marketing word that came along a few years ago.  I was around when noone was using the word.  Nothing changed since then except the ability to be able to sell products, balls, dvds and machines without using the word crunch (because noone wants to do those) all the while using ripped six pack abs as a backdrop for selling you the idea.  Any of the main complex lifts will work the core enough to be more than functional.  As referenced by the above posts, anytime you see or think of core you think of abs. Nevermind the stuff behind them.



This.  My abs are far more sore after a good round of deadlifts and pullups than when I do my "core".  

People always forget what all of those muscles attach to, which is your ribcage, spine and pelvis.  Work those.  

As for showing them, as the saying goes "abs are made in the kitchen."


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## Curlingcadys (May 19, 2011)

Merkaba said:


> Relatively pointless for six pack AND fucking "Core"...the marketing word that came along a few years ago. I was around when noone was using the word. Nothing changed since then except the ability to be able to sell products, balls, dvds and machines without using the word crunch (because noone wants to do those) all the while using ripped six pack abs as a backdrop for selling you the idea. Any of the main complex lifts will work the core enough to be more than functional. As referenced by the above posts, anytime you see or think of core you think of abs. Nevermind the stuff behind them.


wow!
First you're not that fuckin old "core" was used long before our time and yes I do agree to a point the word has been "hyped" to aid in selling products to the living room gyms HOWEVER it ISNOT pointless to work your core direct especially being you're more than likely allready hitting a big piece of it on back day, why not finnish it off and do more hip/ab work (provided your hips aren't cashed allready.)
 Sure compound lifts hit them but hitting them direct along with lower back direct DOES pay dividends per se, thats not debatable. I'm talking as far as strength not "show piecing." Just because they do get hit with those other compound lifts is not an excuse to not work the area even with just body weight/or weighted direct and body weight on obliques, that makes as much sense as ignoring other body parts cause they get hit on another day; such as ignorning biceps because you have a killer back routine....but yet there's some that still do it.
I deffinately agree to unfuck the diet to get them to show but that doesn't mean throwing weight on them is worthless either, everyone has a 6-8pack yes but even at nil body fat it can be a lack luster "show piece" I was proof of that myself, throwing a couple sets as little as once a week of weighted direct work does also help quite a bit.  But to go that route and NOT straightening out diet isn't a key either, allthough I'd be lying if I said I haven't seen some bulging abs that appear to be nice and pertruding to then see they've just been built so much they're pushing a 6 pack of fat out.  Probably would look phenominal if the fat got shaved off via diet/cardio though..  Anyway enough rambling.  Point being because you hit somthing indirect on another day doesn't justify ignoring hitting it direct on a different day....if it works for you to do so than so be it but to spread that word like its pointless to hit that body part direct because of such is simply bad scoop, bottom line.


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## Merkaba (May 19, 2011)

Curlingcadys said:


> wow!
> First you're not that fuckin old "core" was used long before our time and yes I do agree to a point the word has been "hyped" to aid in selling products to the living room gyms HOWEVER it ISNOT pointless to work your core direct especially being you're more than likely allready hitting a big piece of it on back day, why not finnish it off and do more hip/ab work (provided your hips aren't cashed allready.)
> Sure compound lifts hit them but hitting them direct along with lower back direct DOES pay dividends per se, thats not debatable. I'm talking as far as strength not "show piecing." Just because they do get hit with those other compound lifts is not an excuse to not work the area even with just body weight/or weighted direct and body weight on obliques, that makes as much sense as ignoring other body parts cause they get hit on another day; such as ignorning biceps because you have a killer back routine....but yet there's some that still do it.
> I deffinately agree to unfuck the diet to get them to show but that doesn't mean throwing weight on them is worthless either, everyone has a 6-8pack yes but even at nil body fat it can be a lack luster "show piece" I was proof of that myself, throwing a couple sets as little as once a week of weighted direct work does also help quite a bit.  But to go that route and NOT straightening out diet isn't a key either, allthough I'd be lying if I said I haven't seen some bulging abs that appear to be nice and pertruding to then see they've just been built so much they're pushing a 6 pack of fat out.  Probably would look phenominal if the fat got shaved off via diet/cardio though..  Anyway enough rambling.  Point being because you hit somthing indirect on another day doesn't justify ignoring hitting it direct on a different day....if it works for you to do so than so be it but to spread that word like its pointless to hit that body part direct because of such is simply bad scoop, bottom line.



well of course if you want to work them, work them.  My point is that it is WAAAAAAY over-rated.  That's not debatable.  It's the same argument for leg extension or leg curls, tricep push downs and bicep curls.  Sure, do them.  Of course all work has benefits.  I mean we could have the same argument about doing shoulder presses while sitting on a "stability ball". As far as I'm concerned the core doesn't exist.  It doesn't need to be talked about.  I do ab work, a good bit, I used to do a ton when I was in college football and my abs were so sick they called me ab man,thinking about kicking my own ass and trying to do the same workouts again...I do lower back work too.  But To me this isn't the core.  But I'm splittin hairs. It's a pet peeve of mine and I jump all on this topic for fun's sake alone not to mention de-mystifying this whole ab thing.


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## Diesel618 (May 19, 2011)

my abs look a lot better when I'm hitting abs hard. That's all I can go by.


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## Merkaba (May 19, 2011)

Bonesaw said:


> hey! im new come on.  some one told me that and it makes sense to me.



Just bustin' ya chops...as they say.


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## Hench (May 19, 2011)

Is ab training WWAAAYYYYYYYY over-rated? Yes 

But, so is direct arm/forearm/calf training.

Do my abs/arms/forearms ect benefit from some direct training? Of course they do, but they're only an afterthought, once I've done all my important shit.


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## SilentBob187 (May 19, 2011)

Hench said:


> Do my abs/arms/forearms ect benefit from some direct training? Of course they do, but they're only an afterthought, once I've done all my *important shit*.



Just make sure you aren't the 'abs every day' guy or the guy that never does squats but will curl and crunch 24x7.


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## hdemmon446 (May 19, 2011)

I'm gonna agree that working them out every day is way overrated. Diet and Cardio is what does it for me and my shit stays ripped. I just have to stay away from Taco Bell.


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## Hench (May 19, 2011)

SilentBob187 said:


> Just make sure you aren't the 'abs every day' guy or the guy that never does squats but will curl and crunch 24x7.



lol  Not a chance. 

I'm one of the few guys who actually does squats in my gym and as far as I can tell, the only one who does deadlifts. Which is strange considering most of them are geared up and pretty jacked. 

I hate to be the guy who posts e-numbers, but I love the fact that all these massive dudes stop what they are doing to watch me rep 450lbs on deads.


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## CaptainNapalm (May 19, 2011)

I always found direct ab training useless.  They take a lot of stress if you do other lifts, particularly compound lifts.


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## CV3 (May 19, 2011)

feinburgrl said:


> Everyone have abs but it's cover up with body fat. Is there any reason to do ab workout?


 
Just try an informerical gimmick and it should work for you.


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## Bonesaw (May 19, 2011)

i do this twice a week
weighted situps
leg lifts for lower abs
    side bends for obliques 
anything i could/should different?


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## Leave (May 19, 2011)

Do it once a week, that's different.


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## Bonesaw (May 19, 2011)

Leave said:


> Do it once a week, that's different.


I can't see how that would be beneficial


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## Leave (May 19, 2011)

You asked what you could do different, so I gave you something different.
Whether it benefits you or not is between you and your body reactions.


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## SuperLift (May 19, 2011)

No way is it pointless! A strong core means everything in bodybuilding and powerlifting


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## Curlingcadys (May 19, 2011)

Merkaba said:


> well of course if you want to work them, work them. My point is that it is WAAAAAAY over-rated. That's not debatable. It's the same argument for leg extension or leg curls, tricep push downs and bicep curls. Sure, do them. Of course all work has benefits. I mean we could have the same argument about doing shoulder presses while sitting on a "stability ball". As far as I'm concerned the core doesn't exist. It doesn't need to be talked about. I do ab work, a good bit, I used to do a ton when I was in college football and my abs were so sick they called me ab man,thinking about kicking my own ass and trying to do the same workouts again...I do lower back work too. But To me this isn't the core. But I'm splittin hairs. It's a pet peeve of mine and I jump all on this topic for fun's sake alone not to mention de-mystifying this whole ab thing.


 
I do agree there is TONS of hype these days watching some of these TV ads, the core is the world.  There is validity that its not as "crucial" for committed lifters because of all the compound lifting. My only point was its not pointless to work them direct and is still valuable and a good idea but on the flip side nothing to lose sleep over if you didn't get to it.


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## Curlingcadys (May 19, 2011)

Bonesaw said:


> i do this twice a week
> weighted situps
> leg lifts for lower abs
> side bends for obliques
> anything i could/should different?


 
I do pretty much the same just once a week

I cable crunches though instead of regular situps, cable crunches are easy to fuck up though, got  to concentrate its too easy to utilize other muscles if your mind is wondering but if you focus its a good work out.

Everything else, similar to you, I do hanging from a pull up bar or captains chair with ankle weights; and finnish with a bicycle situp burn out for a couple minutes and call it good for the week.


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## trapzilla (May 19, 2011)

Yes and no.
No; for core strength to assist in lifts, not necessarily essential if your core is not a weak link in the lifting chain.
if your ripped but skinny training abs heavily will make them pop more.

Yes; if your not already ripped doing ab work is nigh on useless you get abs by diet and cardio not by banging on abs. At the end of my last cut with visible abs, i did no ab work at all and i feel training them would not have made the results any better


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## TJTJ (May 19, 2011)

SuperLift said:


> No way is it pointless! A strong core means everything in bodybuilding and powerlifting



^This

You can't bench without a solid core, among other things. Next time you're in the gym and someone is on a flat bench, incline or machines. If they are sitting with their legs open wide IMO this is a clear indication of a weak core. 

Next time you flat barbell bench try it with your legs off the ground, knees bent together close to your body above your abs. That's a solid core if you can hold your self together w/o wobbling or falling off during your set.


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## Hench (May 19, 2011)

lol, legs 'wide open' is not an indication of a poor core, it's an indication of proper form.


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## trapzilla (May 19, 2011)

^x2 if you feet are off the floor then your training abs, why? flat bench is for chest(amongst other assisting muscles) how can you be expected to supply proper force without transferal through your legs?


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## TJTJ (May 19, 2011)

trapzilla said:


> ^x2 if you feet are off the floor then your training abs, why? flat bench is for chest(amongst other assisting muscles) how can you be expected to supply proper force without transferal through your legs?




Im not implying it trains your abs. Of course bench is for your chest dummy. Im saying IMO your core is solid and stabilized if you can hold yourself together when benching not relying on your legs. IF you can its almost Chuck Norris like lol

Where is this confusion coming from?


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## Hench (May 19, 2011)

TJTJ said:


> Im not implying it trains your abs. Of course bench is for your chest dummy. Im saying IMO your core is solid and stabilized if you can hold yourself together when benching not relying on your legs. IF you can its almost Chuck Norris like lol
> 
> Where is this confusion coming from?



So are you recommending this as a method of testing core strength? Or as a training protocol?


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## TJTJ (May 19, 2011)

Hench said:


> So are you recommending this as a method of testing core strength? Or as a training protocol?




Stability and I guess strength too IMO. I can do up to 225lbs flat barbell bench like that but I dont go higher because I worry that if I go too heavy I will indeed lose control and roll  and my feet not on the ground. 

Its just something to think about. All those internal muscles along your body have to keep you in the same position w/o wobbling and falling off. Its not easy.


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## Hench (May 19, 2011)

What's the point? If you do compound movements core gets hit shit loads.

I don't know why you would compromise your bench, and your manhood, by not using your legs to stabilise/drive the lift.


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## usafchris (May 19, 2011)

Hench said:


> What's the point? If you do compound movements core gets hit shit loads.
> 
> I don't know why you would compromise your bench, and your manhood, by not using your legs to stabilise/drive the lift.



Going to have to second, or third, or fourth this info... whatever we're on now.  I have fought to pull myself away from so much isolation training and move to more compound movements.  Great things is what I have noticed!!!! I spent years "spot training".  Should've been doing my big lifts, I would have more to show forth had I............


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## trapzilla (May 19, 2011)

Hench said:


> What's the point? If you do compound movements core gets hit shit loads.
> 
> I don't know why you would compromise your bench, and your manhood, by not using your legs to stabilise/drive the lift.


 
this is exactly why powerlifters have ridiculous bench amongst other things they utilise their legs. to sacrfiice bench strength and hence chest development for the sake of what? partially increasing core stability is just daft IMO



TJTJ said:


> Stability and I guess strength too IMO. I can do up to 225lbs flat barbell bench like that but I dont go higher because I worry that if I go too heavy I will indeed lose control and roll and my feet not on the ground.
> 
> Its just something to think about. All those internal muscles along your body have to keep you in the same position w/o wobbling and falling off. Its not easy.


 
thats the point were making why rob your chest of a workout for your abs sake?
I don't know if you use straps or belts but it is the same principle, if your grip fails you can't hit back so you strap up to prevent this.



TJTJ said:


> Im not implying it trains your abs. Of course bench is for your chest dummy. Im saying IMO your core is solid and stabilized if you can hold yourself together when benching not relying on your legs. IF you can its almost Chuck Norris like lol
> 
> Where is this confusion coming from?


 
No confusion at all simply questioning the logic for it. I know a guy who benches 440lbs with his feet off the floor, and he has a monster chest but he may have an even better one if he were to have his feet on the floor and lift greater weight.


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## Built (May 19, 2011)

TJTJ said:


> ^This
> 
> You can't bench without a solid core, among other things. Next time you're in the gym and someone is on a flat bench, incline or machines. If they are sitting with their legs open wide IMO this is a clear indication of a weak core.



No, but your post is a clear indication that you don't bench properly. 

Proper bench pressing involves driving the weight through your feet and into the floor. I urge you to reconsider your current paradigm - you need this stability when you're pressing heavy things that can wreck your rotator cuff in the blink of an eye if you were to lose control on the last rep of your last set, when you're trashed. 

Go to a powerlifting competition sometime; watch how those men and women bench. While you're at it, notice how freaking solid these people are through the core. Heavy deads, squats and bench make a body solid all the way through, and I've never seen a single one of 'em take their feet off the floor while pressing.


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## Merkaba (May 20, 2011)

"The Core"...


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## ponyboy (May 20, 2011)

TJTJ said:


> Im not implying it trains your abs. Of course bench is for your chest dummy. Im saying IMO your core is solid and stabilized if you can hold yourself together when benching not relying on your legs. IF you can its almost Chuck Norris like lol
> 
> Where is this confusion coming from?



It's coming from the laws of physics as it applies to the body.  Applying force to the floor with your feet downwards (and therefore pushing up) helps to counterbalance the force of the bar that is over the top half of your body, which is actually pushing down on your torso.  

People really need to stop thinking of "core" as just your abs. 

And yes, slightly sacrificing a big chest for making sure that your shoulders, hips and spine are going to be okay and not destroy themselves is a really, really good idea.  Losing control means that you put yourself at much higher risk of your tendons, ligaments and small little stabilizers having to help with more of the load, which they really don't want to do.


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## natural1 (May 20, 2011)

Just a note,  I havent trained abs for around a year but yet they are showing through better than ever due to a good bulk then cut diet.  _I used to train them 2-3 times a week and got nowere._

Im not going to say direct ab work is  pointless but can IMO become surplus to requirements if you already have a good routine with the major compounds executed correctly and a clean diet if you want them to show.

Choices in your routine such as choosing  front squats as an accessary instead of leg press will get your "core" plenty


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## LAM (May 20, 2011)

the only worthless exercises are the ones performed improperly.  just remember to directly exercise the low back with the same number of sets, reps, etc. to keep the muscles in balance.  far too many only work the abs neglected the low back which creates a severe muscle imbalance setting them up for future injury in that area (lower lumbar) in the future.


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## juggernaut (May 20, 2011)

My PRs are as follows: Military presses with 210, deads with 505, RDLs with 400lbs twice, front squat with 235 for 8 reps. These are good for me at least, but I know I can be better...I'm pretty certain my core is strong enough, and when I get to 4% fat this year, I'll be certain abs will show. As for doing ab "workouts", I only do 4-6 sets total once a week. I dont bother much with them,


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