# HST - yay or nay?



## Mudge (Jul 11, 2002)

http://www.testosterone.net/articles/216hyp.html

Not very familiar with it as far as calling it "HST", but like I have mentioned in a couple threads, I grew like mad training the entire body every 2 days (3 times a week).

So, with that in mind, and what is said in the article - which is exactly the basis of the program I was on (train through being sore, train often, etc), what do you folks think of it? Has anyone tried it, and has results to speak of?


----------



## Mudge (Jul 11, 2002)

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html


----------



## The Rose (Jul 12, 2002)

I think I will try the program.


----------



## kuso (Jul 12, 2002)

Personally, I liked it, but couldn`t finish it.

Several weeks in I started getting joint pains ( shoulders and knees ) and tendonitis in my elbows  .................... still having some problems three or four months later.


----------



## Mudge (Jul 14, 2002)

Remembering my old gains, I am definately using it. Today is my 2nd workout of the first cycle...


----------



## Mudge (Jul 14, 2002)

Not alot of posters on this one! For those of you who haven't tried it its once again doing wonders for me. 1/8"-1/4" a week on my arms is not unusual on this type of routine, with a normal routine my gains are much much slower.

If I posted my bodyweight and minor bodyfat increase, nobody would believe me 

http://www.testosterone.net/articles/216hyp.html
http://www.testosterone.net/articles/217hyp.html


----------



## TrackManDave (Jul 14, 2002)

Ive already done one week of the 15s.  Ive modified it abit so Im workout out twice day, three times a week.  However with each session its one set per exercise, in lagging areas theres two sets, and so I can finish each routine in 30 minutes or less.  So far, so good.


----------



## Mudge (Jul 14, 2002)

I've split it into the 1 workout in 2 days time, so still entire body 3x per week but over 6 days instead of 3. The way I did a similar program before was a 2 workout per day, body 3x per week, but more volume than HST (way more, 3x-4x more).


----------



## Robboe (Jul 14, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> Not alot of posters on this one!



I made a semi-long post as soon as you made the thread but it wouldn;t let me post it, i crashed and subsequently lost the post.

I know of several people on the net who have tried HST and still do it and like it greatly.

There's also others who think it's just a fad and prefer to train heavier.

I've never tried it, so i can;t say - although next bulk i'm doing a same-sort-of-principle style training where i stop shy of failure and hit bodyparts twice a week.

I've read the articles on hypertrophy-specific and as far as i can see, the theory is sound. But realistically speaking, a natural trainer ain;t really gonna add more than 4lbs a month of pure muscle (unless relatively new to the game) Although it's not impossible, it's doubtful. If you're hitting each part hard once a week and progressing in the gym and adding weight to your frame each week (say 0.5-1lb) then you've got to ask yourself how much difference it's gonna make?

Anyhoo, if it's something you're enquiring about trying, then go for it. You'll never know till you try. You've had similar attempts in the past with good sucession, so there's nor eason to say that this won;t also prove to be a success (except for age and being more advanced).

Be sure to let us all know how it goes if you do opt to do it.


----------



## LAM (Jul 14, 2002)

I just started doing it about 1 month ago.  I like it, very painfull !


----------



## Mudge (Jul 14, 2002)

I started Friday July 5th
Chest went from 47.5" to 48.5" (Are you supposed to flex your lats when you measure? That'd get me another inch or so  )
Arms from 17.5" to 17 3/4"
Neck from 16 3/4" to 17 1/4" (I do direct neck work)

Bodyweight went from 225 to 230.8, bodyfat increased .5% (thank you pizza!).


----------



## Mudge (Jul 14, 2002)

These are from the 11th, remember I'm 6'2" so it will take big numbers to make me look filled out. My Tshirts are getting pretty tight though, which is good/bad I spose.

Relaxed back shot


----------



## Mudge (Jul 14, 2002)

Relaxed side shot


----------



## bludevil (Jul 15, 2002)

I tried this workout yesterday. They state it shouldn't take over 45 minutes  but it took me about an 1 hour and 15 minutes. That's to long for me. I like to done in about 45 minutes. How long does it take the rest of you guys.


----------



## kuso (Jul 15, 2002)

When I did it I was just on about 50 minutes


----------



## Mudge (Jul 15, 2002)

As long as your 45-60 thats not too shabby. Rest periods personally I keep 60-90 seconds.

I split the day into 2 days though to help myself keep pushing myself.


----------



## bludevil (Jul 15, 2002)

I guess I was taking to long of rest periods, but I had to, I was about to throw-up and I did my legs. 

By the way, anybody tried thier supps. I'm going to give them a try


----------



## Mudge (Jul 15, 2002)

17 7/8" today, didn't know they did supplements. Supprisingly the pages I visited were pretty non-commercial, which helped it look good to me, and of course I didn't end up buying anything so  maybe it was a bad idea on thier part, heh.


----------



## LAM (Jul 15, 2002)

I add in more sets for legs so it takes me about 65 minutes...


----------



## ragingbull (Jul 20, 2002)

I would just like to say that I have tried the HST method for just over one week and it is kicking the crap out of me. I find that my endurance is not up to par. So I guess HST is working for me right now. I don't know about the long term but my endurance is getting better. Not to mention that this is a nice breather from my normal routines and has added freshness workingout. Thanks for the post Mudge.


----------



## Chucky (Jul 22, 2002)

I did a cycle a while ago and will be starting my second cycle in about 3 weeks.  I loved the routine.  It's a true ass kicker, but done right, it can work.  I had to increase my eating during the high rep stuff because my body just wasn't used to that much volume and it nearly killed me.  I know the goal of HST is to increase hypertrophy, but I saw bigger gains in strength than in actual size, which was cool with me.  Hopefully this second cycle will produce better results than the first, now knowing what it takes.


----------



## pumpit (Jul 23, 2002)

Hi Mudge, i was wondering if i was looking for a new workout and i've about the HST principles and training. So if you could post a sample workout that would be great.


----------



## Mudge (Jul 23, 2002)

You'll find an example here:

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_II.html

Or read through the first two links at the top of the page to see if this interests you.


----------



## TriZZle305 (Jul 23, 2002)

HST, is it good for strength as well? how much are strength and size associated with each other... i dont really care too much about size i just want the strength for now... how were your strength gains?


----------



## Mudge (Jul 23, 2002)

Some claim it works more for strength than size, I dunno. I've put on about 20 pounds on my bench in 3 weeks.

I can't say anything has worked for me like these more frequent programs.


----------



## TriZZle305 (Jul 23, 2002)

20 pounds three weeks? i think thats worthy of a try!!! how about your legs?


----------



## Mudge (Jul 23, 2002)

Dunno, I leg press with 5 plates per side, and I am using 4-5 plates per side for my standing calf raises. I don't watch these in -/+ 5 pound incremements like other bodyparts (although yes of course I should, sorry daddy).

Some of the increase is me just actually having a solid routine, and starting to push myself more, but doing a similar workout in the past is where I got almost all of the gains I ever made, which was in a 3 month period. The arms have slowed growing in the 10 rep range (not trying to figure out too much why), but the strength is still coming. I'm starting 5 reps soon, then back to 15. I grew the most from 15, but could be because I never do that kinda rep range, or maybe because it was in a TUT range and I didn't notice, who knows.


----------



## TriZZle305 (Jul 23, 2002)

yeah i made 20 pound gains in strength as well(in the begining) but its slowng down so i think id i switch to HST then it might burst back up to that rate again


----------



## Mudge (Jun 13, 2003)

Bump


----------



## Rob_NC (Jun 13, 2003)

Hey Mudge,

  Since the original post is nearly a year old now, are you still on the program?  If so, how's is working for you?


----------



## ddouble (Jun 13, 2003)

*positive results from HST*

I'm in the middle of my second HST cycle.  I've found it to be very productive.  After my first cycle, my weight stayed constant (210), while I lost an inch on my waist and picked up an inch on my legs (26.5") and kept other measurements constant (arms - 18" , chest - 48", calves - 17").  It satisfies the desire for increased training frequency while balancing the issues of CNS fatigue & progressive load.  Ultimately, I think it forces you to view hypertrophy as a process bigger than just "sets and reps".  Unfortunately, a lot of people aren't willing to try a cycle (by the book!) to see if it works - they seem content to blindly bash it.


----------



## Mudge (Jun 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Rob_NC *_
> Since the original post is nearly a year old now, are you still on the program?  If so, how's is working for you?



Nope! I went through one cycle and cut the second week of the 5 rep period out totally, my left elbow could not take it. I am considering revisiting it, and I wanted to pass the articles here to someone who is stuck in a rut.


----------



## Charger (Jun 13, 2003)

I tried one week and hated it! I walked out of the gym feeling like I hadn't hit anything right, just everything halfassed.


----------



## Tha Don (Dec 31, 2003)

i'd be willing to try something like this

theres a few other things i'd like to try first and i still think i can make progress doing what i'm doing, but yeah its gotta be tried n' tested, might work... might not

Mudge you ever get round to doing another cycle?

peace


----------



## Mudge (Dec 31, 2003)

I think I did for a week or something but not a full 5/6 weeker, maybe someday in the future. When I did use the program I liked it, great changeup, but I am using a pretty traditional 5 day layout right now with a day off as I feel appropriate (with the holidays it is forced, Xmas, New Years etc).


----------



## Twin Peak (Dec 31, 2003)

Personally, I am not a fan if HST for two reasons:

1) I hated the workout.  Out of sheer curiousity I may do a modified HST someday, using the progessive loading principles, with the full body workout split into two days.

2) I don't think it is the most effective method of training (for me).


----------



## Mudge (Dec 31, 2003)

When running 30 second rest periods it is a sweat-a-thon. I increased sets on some things, probably back and legs.


----------



## Twin Peak (Dec 31, 2003)

I was miserable training the entire body.

I have enjoyed Staley's EDT program, however.


----------



## Mudge (Dec 31, 2003)

Ahh, I split everything in half after my first day trying whole body, talk about a WORKOUT (too long also).

So I was 6 on 1 off.


----------



## Power Rabbit (Dec 31, 2003)

When I start gear and my overtrain limit will be increaced I do think I wanna try a full body train. 

GP sould make us a full body workout


----------



## Mudge (Dec 31, 2003)

It wont be increased so much that you should be in the gym 5 hours a day. I also prefer to have higher volume than a full body routine in an hour allows.

Moreover, if you could really spend 35 hours a week in the gym doing full body routines daily, with the same volume as normal (say an hour x 5 per day), you would be on a serious road to injury. While the muscles can grow fast, connective tissue does not, in fact it is inhibited by many steroids. I have pushed all the way to a 4 day workout with a day off every 2-3 weeks.

Search on collagen synthesis, I have posted on it.


----------



## OmarJackson (Dec 31, 2003)

i've been skimming over the sample routine for HST and i noticed that he has you altering between incline bench and dips, every other workout increasing each lift by 10lbs. my question is could i just stick to flat bench for every workout and just increase the weight by 5lbs each time, or just to incline the whole time if my upper chest is lagging?

also, it says that HST causes you to train to failure once every two weeks (when you've reached your max lifts for the rep range), but how is this so? shouldn't you have gotten stronger so that what was, say, your 5-rep max weight way back when you started the cycle now lower than  your new 5-rep max?

one more thing, i'm don't completly understand the negative portion of the training cycle. do you use weights that are hevier than your 5-rep max? if so, how much heavier, and how many negatives should you perform?


----------



## Mudge (Dec 31, 2003)

You can do whatever you want, but the plan is there for a reason. The increase of xx pounds for instance, seemingly impossible, is part of the forced plan of adjust or fail.

Negatives usually connotates that you use a heavier weight than you can lift yourself. Since I have no training partner I could not follow the program to the letter of the law and just taylored it to fit me.

Some things could be done on a smith with negatives, I cannot and will not flat bench on a smith it kills my shoulders.


----------



## Downtown Guy (Jan 1, 2004)

One caveat with the HST routine.  If you are susceptible to soft tissue injuries,  this routine could be problematic as it easily leads to overtraining, IMO.  All of the vulnerable areas are at risk; especially knees, shoulders and elbows.  Maybe this in only a problem for us old, arthritic folk!


----------



## FortifiedIron (Jan 4, 2004)

HST isnt for everyone, but its a very very good program. 

You should also check out the DFHT program, IMO is even more sound then HST.

Kc


----------



## neanderthal (Jan 4, 2004)

where can we find the DFHT program?


----------



## FortifiedIron (Jan 4, 2004)

Just search google


Kc


----------



## Stickboy (Jan 5, 2004)

It's here.

DFHT


----------



## Larva (Jan 6, 2004)

well i am thinking of trying this HST stuff but i am just wondering how long should you stay on something like this and for Mudge were you clean when on this program or uing? thanks for ya time larva


----------



## Mudge (Jan 6, 2004)

At one point I was doing 1/8th on my arms daily, no I was not 'clean,' this was during my first cycle actually.

I only stayed on 5 weeks, my left elbow couldn't take a second week of 5 reps. I added probably about 55 pounds to my bench during this HST period.

I tried a similar program years prior though and made awesome gains, long before I had access to anything special. I made all my stretch marks during that period of time, now almost 10 years gone.


----------



## Randy (Nov 16, 2004)

Mudge said:
			
		

> http://www.testosterone.net/articles/216hyp.html
> 
> Not very familiar with it as far as calling it "HST", but like I have mentioned in a couple threads, I grew like mad training the entire body every 2 days (3 times a week).
> 
> So, with that in mind, and what is said in the article - which is exactly the basis of the program I was on (train through being sore, train often, etc), what do you folks think of it? Has anyone tried it, and has results to speak of?


Mudge, this link appears to be dead.


----------



## Mudge (Nov 16, 2004)

They changed their site long ago, direct linking isn't so easy last I checked, and this post is *2 1/2 years old* bro.


----------



## Randy (Nov 16, 2004)

Ahhhhh ok.. wow! Didn't notice it was so old


----------



## brogers (Feb 9, 2005)

Anyone still using this program?  Can you post your results? I'm strongly considering trying it, I like the idea of high frequency.


----------



## Mudge (Feb 9, 2005)

Its 5-6 weeks long, nothing wrong with trying it.


----------



## KPorter (Feb 10, 2005)

i'm interested in trying something like this, but the problem is that my job is very labour intensive (i work at a grocery store, so lots of lifting and standing on my feet for 8 hours every other day). do you think by doing this routine and working, that i'd easily overtrain?


----------



## brogers (Feb 10, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> Its 5-6 weeks long, nothing wrong with trying it.


Good point.  I'll definitely give it a try.


----------



## Mudge (Feb 10, 2005)

KPorter said:
			
		

> i'm interested in trying something like this, but the problem is that my job is very labour intensive (i work at a grocery store, so lots of lifting and standing on my feet for 8 hours every other day). do you think by doing this routine and working, that i'd easily overtrain?



The frequency is more and the volume is less, you dont do any more work than you would otherwise do.


----------



## Decker (Feb 10, 2005)

I used to train in this manner about 6 years ago--4 days (at least) per week; a full body workout, sometimes up to 2 1/2 hours per workout (this was before I'd ever heard of overtraining). I weighed in at about 220 at 6'1"--at my peak, my chest was 51" and arms were 18 3/4". The gains were great, but every now and then I had to take a week off just to recuperate from the mental fatigue. It is a torturous routine. But I'm back on a variation of it now.


----------



## brogers (Feb 10, 2005)

Decker said:
			
		

> I used to train in this manner about 6 years ago--4 days (at least) per week; a full body workout, sometimes up to 2 1/2 hours per workout (this was before I'd ever heard of overtraining). I weighed in at about 220 at 6'1"--at my peak, my chest was 51" and arms were 18 3/4". The gains were great, but every now and then I had to take a week off just to recuperate from the mental fatigue. It is a torurous routine. But I'm back on a variation of it now.


Thanks Decker, good results.


----------

