# Well.. I don't *look* any bigger...



## BlueCorsair (Jan 21, 2004)

Bit of an odd question, but I thought I'd put it here since eating = size...

Since November, I've put on about 11 or 12 pounds. I use a high potency creatine supp, with a nice GI spike built in, so I assume half of that is water weight. I'd rather it be lean mass, but who can tell right?

At any rate, to me - I don't look any bigger... At least it doesn't seem like it. Although I'm quite strong for my miserably tiny build (I've noticed far more strength than size gains) I don't really "look" like I work out.

For example, If I flex my abs (and I don't mean suck in my gut, because I don't have one) I have the upper 2/3rd's of a six-pack. If I don't flex, I don't even look defined at all. If I flex my arm, it looks half decent. If I don't flex it at all, you probably couldn't tell that I work out.

Long and short, unless I, for lack of a better phrase, flex my muscles and "strike a pose" then I look pretty normal, which is disappointing given the fact I've worked out continually for six months now, minus a week long break in the middle to recuperate (though my improved diet/training only kicked in last November)

At any rate, it's frustrating, and I have no idea where on my body this extra 12 pounds is located... anyone able to relate to anything I'm blubbering about? Since I'm a big-time ecto, I'm doing this for my self-image, not to impress anyone else. I'm failing to impress myself, hence the disappointment.


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## PreMier (Jan 21, 2004)

It is natutural for one to see oneself not change.  Wat I mean is people around you probably notice a difference or people you havent seen in a while.  It is hard for you to really tell a difference because you see yourself everyday.  Make sence?


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## gwcaton (Jan 21, 2004)

Have you been taking body measurements and body fat readings ?  that would be one way to tell if you are getting bigger / putting on LBM in place of fat.


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## once was fat (Jan 21, 2004)

Im the last one to talk but do you have any pics.


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## Chad Cena III (Jan 21, 2004)

How g's of protein per day Blue ?


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## BlueCorsair (Jan 22, 2004)

Regarding protein, 200+ grams per day is what I'm at. Usually around 230 to 240, though the number fluctuates. I only weigh in at 141 pounds (I know online calc's are evil, but bodybuildingonline's say I'm only at 13%), so that should be plenty. Most of it comes from high quality whey, with lean meat making up the rest.

My macros are usually:

Daily Protein : 228 grams : 912 calories
Carb: 272 grams : 1088 calories
Fat: 81 grams : 729 calories

Total Cals: 2730 (Though this can be noticeably higher or lower some days)

Well, as to measurements, I've taken a few. As I'm not sure how the "proper' technique is to measure (i.e. where on the bodypart) I'll just list the two I have that seem correct:

Waist (taken just below the bottom of ribcage, couple inches above navel): 31 inches

Arm (flexed, taken at widest point of both tricep & bicep): 14.5 inches. Though after a workout, it his 15 at times.

My meal plan is approved by Jodi, which is at least comforting. Typical meal would be two scoops of protein (41 grams pro.) 1 full cup slow oats (55-60 carbs) and 1 tbs natty pb (10 grams ft.) A couple of my meals are spaced out about 4 hours apart instead of three, but this is due to unavoidable circumstances (only happens four days a week though).

My training is also a comprehensive three day split. I train mostly with dumbells instead of barbells to make sure I can't "cheat" by making a stronger arm for example do most of the work.

As I said, if I "flex" my body, it looks half decent I suppose, but nowhere near what I'd like. If I just relax... I look fairly normal. What a piss off 

Being an ectomorph (5'7, very small frame) I don't know if those numbers are decent are not. I know my arms are likely my best part, so if they're lacking, the rest of me is as well. My chest refuses to grow for instance. I do no cardio whatsoever (except for playing hockey once a week at most) so as to not burn out my system. I'm lean, but not as lean as I once was, so even though cardio might be a good idea, I'm really trying to put on more lean muscle before cutting.

Anyway, done ranting. I know I post relatively often, but the ammount of effort I'm investing is yielding very little payback...

That answer your Q's?

P.S. no pics... no webcam, no nothing.


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## BlueCorsair (Jan 22, 2004)

I feel abandoned, no one has replied 

heh, well thanks for the responses I did get, I appreciate your time


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## Chad Cena III (Jan 22, 2004)

Try throwing in a lil flaxseed oil in your post wo shake.


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## y2gt (Jan 22, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Chad Cena III *_
> Try throwing in a lil flaxseed oil in your post wo shake.


 What's the reason for that? Wouldn't that slow down the absorption of protein/carbs into the muscles? It looks to me that he is getting enough fat intake for the day already.


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## Jodi (Jan 22, 2004)

Sounds like its time to increase your cals.  Are you still steadily gaining.

Also, consider this - its takes a bit to actually *look* like you've worked out.  Well, at least for me it did.  After 5 years of training it wasn't until a year or so ago that I actually have the appearance of a bodybuilder   Sorry, not something you probably want to hear but newbie gain muscle fast and easy and then it levels off and you struggle and do everything you can to gain a bit more size.


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## BlueCorsair (Jan 22, 2004)

I take in my flax once, and sometimes twice a day, but thanks for the tip.

My cals are already pretty high, and I really can't stomach eating any more than I already do. 3000 calories with my tiny build (which is what I get near some days) is a helluva lot of food. If I was to eat a few big mac's, it'd be easier 

I've pretty much strung out the purse as it is already. Glutamine, creatine, whey, flax, and high quality meats are creating a bill that is already nigh impossible to cope with.

I'm not liking where this is going. If 2700-3000 healthy cals isn't doing the trick... what else is there?


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## PreMier (Jan 23, 2004)

Like Jody said... you have to eat more.  I know you say you cant... but you have to.  And yes, the BB lifestyle is extremely expensive.  It becomes who you are, and thats all you have to spend money on is you and your diet.  Just so ya dont feel alone, I go through 30LBS of boneless skinless chicken breasts a week.  And nearly 1 1/2 lbs of uncooked brown rice.  Just keep eating, and keep lifting.  You will grow.  
"Rome wasnt built in one day"


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## camarosuper6 (Jan 23, 2004)

Blue, what exactly is your training program, if you wouldnt mind, I would like to see it.

Thanks


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## P-funk (Jan 23, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by BlueCorsair *_
> I take in my flax once, and sometimes twice a day, but thanks for the tip.
> 
> My cals are already pretty high, and I really can't stomach eating any more than I already do. 3000 calories with my tiny build (which is what I get near some days) is a helluva lot of food. If I was to eat a few big mac's, it'd be easier
> ...




if 3000 healthy cals isn't doing the trick then eat 4000 healthy cals....lol.

throw some simple sugars in at meal one to help set up a little bit of hunger for the rest of day and get some easy carbs/cals early in the day.  I would usually eat english muffins with jam on them when I was bulking or raisens in my oatmeal.  I know this is not the view that most would agree with here but I swear by it.  after a certain point you just need to add SOME sugar to help things out and help you gain a little weight.  


About the money thing, yes this is expensive but make it easy on yourself.  I just buy whey and flax.  Drop the glutamine and creatine.  That will save you some money each month.  Take that money and buy steak instead.


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## BlueCorsair (Jan 24, 2004)

3000 cals is simply logistics, and the max I seem to have "time" for. I get up at 8:00 four days a week, and I try to be asleep by 10 pm those nights (university during the day). Sometimes 2700 is the best I can do.

On weekends I'm looking at sleeping in 'til 10, as I often stay up late to study, or simply try to have a life. I take working out VERY seriously, and have invested a ton of time, effort, money, and sweat into it - but I'm not "hardcore" - I have to be honest about that. BB'ing is not my main focus in life, as my other responsibilties are too great.

And as to money... I own a Delorean. That takes almost all the cash I have  

By the way, my training program is the following...

Friday: Chest/Bi's
Sat: N/A
Sun: Legs/Shoulders
Mon: N/A
Tues: Back/Tri's
Wed/Thur: N/A

A three day split is the best set up given my schedule. Those combinations give each group a good rest I believe. I know some do tri's/chest together, but triceps get a wee bit of a buff from chest work. Likewise with bi's and back, so I split them.

As to actual exercises:

Chest: 3x Flat Dumbell Press - 6 reps
            3x Decline Dumbell Press - 6 reps 
            3x Flyes - 6 reps

Bi's: 3x incline dumbell curls - 6 reps
        2-3x barbell curls - 6 reps
        3x cable curls - 6 reps

Legs: 3x Squats - 6-8 reps
          3x Leg Curls - 6-8 reps
          3x Calf raises - 6-8 reps

Shoulders: 3x Military barbell, or ez-bar press: 6-8 reps
                   3x Upright Rows (barbell or ez-bar): 6-8 reps
                   3x  Dumbell row (with elbows out): 6-8 reps

BacK: 3x Bent Row - 6-8 reps
          3x Seated Row - 6-8 Reps
          3x wide-grip pull down - 6-8 reps

Triceps: 3x CG Bench w/barbell or EZ-bar: 6-8 reps
              2x Skull Crusher w/barbell or EZ-bar: 6-8 reps
              Cables to finish.

Most of what I have above is my own design, catered to my own body. I DO substitute, and switch various exercises every month or so, so nothing stagnates. Above is simply my current plan. According to all the routines I've observed here, mine looks fairly comprehensive, and others have given it their "seal" before. I do 3 sets instead of 4 because my fourth set would either be one or two reps, or terrible form. I don't have the kind of endurance to pull off four sets of almost anything, given that I use heavy weight. I also avoid barbells for chest work as I don't like the idea of one side cheating. Plus, spotters are hard as hell to find, and I don't want a ton of weight over my chest, and to have my muscles decide to quit on me.

At  any rate, that's how it sits. My eating may be holding me back, but unless I stop going to school six hours per day, and stop running a car, cash for more food isn't much of an option. Time is also the issue. Between meal one and two, and two and three, there are four hour gaps, instead of three. Why? No eating in class. heh. My macro breakdown (you can see it in this thread above) looks quite good to me, and meets approval from those "in the know" here, so I'm not too worried about it.

I'd stop the creatine if I could (tastes awful, and sometimes gives the runs) but I'm convinced it's the only reason I've put on any weight at all. It's a very potent GI-spiking brand, and I only take one dose (6 grams) per day, but I do take two doses on days I work out.

Again, it's just this "limbo" feeling that's uncomfortable... If I flex it all out, I look half-decent. If I don't, I look like the average guy (or so I think). Considering 9 months ago I was as light as 126 pounds (I have a tiny frame, trust me, I wasn't a rail) and STILL didn't have a six-pack, or that "cut" look, I don't think cutting down will do much for me either!

At any rate, that's all the info I've been asked for. I do sincerely, once again, appreciate your time


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## Premo55 (Jan 24, 2004)

As far as training goes, I find I have better results when I work like muscles (ie back with bis and chest with tris) as opposed to working antagonistic muscles on the same day. Truthfully, though, I put tris and bis on the same day now as a separate arms day. Maybe you should try tweaking your training. Maybe try adding a bit more volume and/or switching between higher rep/higher rep tempo/less rest time and lower rep/slower rep tempo/more rest time workouts, so you always keep your body guessing. 

Honestly, though, if you really want to add mass, throw in some powerlifting exercises into your routine, get someone to teach you how to do deadlifts (I think other than squats these are the number one mass and strength builders if done correctly and with enough rest), stiff-leg deadlifts, sumo deadlifts, Romanian deadlifts, snatch grip deadlifts (you get the point), full squats, power cleans, power snatches, push presses, jerks and pulls. 

Also, I think you are doing too much direct arm work. I would cut down to 4-6 sets for bi's or tri's. Why would you do the same volume workout for your arms and your legs when your legs carry the biggest muscles on your frame? Replace them with more volume for your chest, back and leg workouts. If your growth has stagnated, I suggest you try dropsets and supersets, and alternating your workouts as I suggested above.

Eating is going to be tough, but really if you want to grow it's something you have to do. Personally I never use creatine, maybe you should try getting off it and seeing how much of the gain you've made is actually water weight, it can actually soak fluids like a sponge! If you've just started out in bodybuilding you've a long way ahead genetically man, you should be packing muscle without any problems, and will continue to do so for a long time, you just have to play around with certain factors I believe.

I suggest that you do pull-ups, t-bar rows, sternum chins, neutral grip chins, bent-over barbell rows, dumb-bell rows, deadlifts and chins for your back (obviously not all in the same workout, play around with them). Your back workout will not do very much for you at all in terms of looking 'big' and 'thick' as you want to. You need exercises that will thicken and widen your back. Also, I notice that you have no direct trap work. Try throwing some variations of shrugs in there, traps will do much to make you have that bodybuilder look. Also for your shoulders, I believe clean and jerks and leaning one-armed lateral raises are great for packing mass onto your shoulders and giving the rounded 'cannonball' shape that adds much to making you look larger. 

When you get down to lower body fat levels you will also naturally look larger, as with increased muscular definition people will notice the difference. Don't worry about it so much, get some measurements done to chart your progress.

One more thing, are you going to failure on every set, every workout? I hope not. 

Peace.


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## BlueCorsair (Jan 24, 2004)

SOme good suggestions, let me respond to any that I can 

I find that if I work back/bi's, chest/tri's that I can't perform as well on the tricep or bicep exercises - I can't do as many sets, nor can I lift as heavy a weight. That's why I split them.

Squats I've incorporated. I'll look into the others yopu've suggested, but since I obviously can't do them all on a leg day, are there any others that are "neccessary"? I'd assume deadlifts.

I'll drop the sets on the arms as suggested, and see what happens. Maybe it'll let me go for a heavier weight, maybe I just simply won't feel as sore 

I should be able to increase back and leg sets, but chest is likely a no go. I'm a typical ecto, and from what I hear, most of us suffer in the chest department something fierce. I flat-barbell-press two 70 pound dumbells. I like to think that's decent for my size. But after three sets of that, three sets of decline (at 55 pounds each) and three sets of fly, my chest is pretty worked over. Adding more sets would mean I'd have to do all sets in each exercise as a dropset, and even then, I think the fourth set would be fairly feeble 

As to how long I've been working out, I started over three years ago, when I was almost 19. I didn't have the knowledge I do now, nor did I go at it as scientifically. I've been "properly" working out for five or six months now. My genetics, given my exto form, are obviously pretty awful for putting on muscle. The heaviest I've ever been was about 150 pounds, and that was after two years straight of "living the university life" style eating. I didn't look fat, but my BF% was up around 17-19% likely. My point being is that it took two full years of eating high calorie crap to put on any weight at all, so you can see how much of a challenge this is with oats 

As to BF%, I'm sitting around 13%, which isn't very high. Some people never get that low  I'm not doing any cardio to shave what I do have off though, as I am after all, trying to GAIN weight. Cardio would be counter-productive. Again, I cite my concern that when I was once 125 pounds, I still didn't have that much definition, so cutting may not do much of anything for me. Even at 125 pounds, the "bottom half" of my abs still didn't show through. Frustrating.

I'll add in the shrugs. Truth be told, they're in my written-up text version of my workout, but I always seem to forget them for some reason.

Various chins I can do, but there's no way to weight them at my gym, making them fairly useless I'd think.

As to failure, no, not every set. Though my third and final set of each exercise usually is. Although this varies from time to time.

Cheers again


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