# This is not an M1T Poll!



## Newt (Jan 3, 2005)

I just got my M1T, never taken it before, I have a question about gyno.  I don't have access to Nolva, well money for it anyway, and I heard that Milk Thistle works well.  I wondered if just taking Milk Thistle would probably be ok since M1T isn't supposed to convert into estrogen anyway.  I know a lot about lifting but not that much about PH/PS's so feel free to rip me apart.  For all I know Milk Thistle is just for raising my test levels back after a cycle?!?  I don't know but I know some of you guys do.


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## Pirate! (Jan 3, 2005)

You need nolva or 6-oxo for pct. Read the sticky on PH/PS to learn more about it. Taking M1T without pct is a big mistake.


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## Newt (Jan 3, 2005)

Thanks man!


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## 419Para_Dice (Jan 3, 2005)

What happends to 15-17 year old kids who walk into a nutri-sport and buy M1T without knowledge of what PCT even is? Can they retaliate against the company that sold them the Ph/Ps if they get fucked up?

-Efrin


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## Du (Jan 3, 2005)

419Para_Dice said:
			
		

> What happends to 15-17 year old kids who walk into a nutri-sport and buy M1T without knowledge of what PCT even is? Can they retaliate against the company that sold them the Ph/Ps if they get fucked up?
> 
> -Efrin


Questions like that anger people like us.


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## law74 (Jan 3, 2005)

If the company, and the plaintiff would have to prove this, had knowledge about the side effects of the supplement, and then took no action to warn the consumer about the potential hazards then a company could be held liable.  There are so many factors such as the potential for harm, the gravity of the harm, etc..., which go into establishing liability that it would take a month to answer this question fully, but the short answer is yes.


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## Arnold (Jan 3, 2005)

Newt said:
			
		

> I wondered if just taking Milk Thistle would probably be ok since M1T isn't supposed to convert into estrogen anyway.



Milk Thistle is for liver function.

Your natural T production will shut down with M1T, you need proper PCT to recover and get your testes producing testosterone again.


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## Du (Jan 3, 2005)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> Milk Thistle is for liver function.
> 
> Your natural T production will shut down with M1T, you need proper PCT to recover and get your testes producing testosterone again.


Basically, milk thistle isnt good alone for PCT. Like Rob said, its good for liver health. But you need an anti-estrogen. 

If you dont wanna use nolva, use a boatload of 6-oxo.


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## Curlingcadys (Jan 3, 2005)

Newt said:
			
		

> I just got my M1T, never taken it before, I have a question about gyno. I don't have access to Nolva, well money for it anyway, and I heard that Milk Thistle works well. I wondered if just taking Milk Thistle would probably be ok since M1T isn't supposed to convert into estrogen anyway. I know a lot about lifting but not that much about PH/PS's so feel free to rip me apart. For all I know Milk Thistle is just for raising my test levels back after a cycle?!? I don't know but I know some of you guys do.


 **Milk thistle 1week before, (I'm gonna use it durring), and a week after
     DO NOT DRINK ALCOHOL on cycle!!!

 ***FIND Nolva*, I'm kinda surprised that 6-oxo is being recommend, you guys  ripped me apart a while back when I said I was gonna use it for PCT, Though I understand why now. (but I did find nolva.)


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## Du (Jan 3, 2005)

If you found nolva, stick with that.


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## 419Para_Dice (Jan 3, 2005)

du510 said:
			
		

> Questions like that anger people like us.


I dont understand why it would anger you, i wasnt tryin to insult you or, anyone else, or the way you do things.

i was just pointing out how sometimes the people who sell the drugs never say anythin to the constumers about anything like pct, a lot dont even know what that is.

im sorry if i offended you, lol. no offence was intended. i was merely pointing out how the importance of pct after M1T is overlooked by the uninformed.  and that is dangerous.

-Efrin


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## Du (Jan 3, 2005)

419Para_Dice said:
			
		

> I dont understand why it would anger you, i wasnt tryin to insult you or, anyone else, or the way you do things.
> 
> i was just pointing out how sometimes the people who sell the drugs never say anythin to the constumers about anything like pct, a lot dont even know what that is.
> 
> ...


No no, I know. 

Those type of people contributed to the ban. I am absolutely bullshit about the ban. Im not gonna get into it, I could go on for pages. Its simply rediculous. 

Thats all it really was. It got me pissed for a sec, I posted, and now its over. Nothing serious, nothing against you. Sorry about that.


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## Pirate! (Jan 3, 2005)

Curlingcadys said:
			
		

> I'm kinda surprised that 6-oxo is being recommend.


I recommend nolva above 6-oxo, but I think 6-oxo at 600 mg/day for 28 days would be a good pct, too. Worked well for me.


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## gococksDJS (Jan 3, 2005)

PirateFromHell said:
			
		

> I recommend nolva above 6-oxo, but I think 6-oxo at 600 mg/day for 28 days would be a good pct, too. Worked well for me.


 I personally think nolva is the only way to go with a PS like M1T. You'll have the test levels of Richard Simmons, with a couple of raisins hanging from your flacid dong. If you can get your hands on it, go with nolva, but if not say bye bye to spanky time for a few months.


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## DOMS (Jan 3, 2005)

419Para_Dice said:
			
		

> I dont understand why it would anger you, i wasnt tryin to insult you or, anyone else, or the way you do things.
> 
> i was just pointing out how sometimes the people who sell the drugs never say anythin to the constumers about anything like pct, a lot dont even know what that is.
> 
> ...


 It pretty much boils down to one sad fact: the lives of normal people are limited by the actions of stupid people.


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## Curlingcadys (Jan 3, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> It pretty much boils down to one sad fact: the lives of normal people are limited by the actions of stupid people.


 nice!


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## Pirate! (Jan 3, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> It pretty much boils down to one sad fact: the lives of normal people are limited by the actions of stupid people.


One problem: normal people are stupid.


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## RCfootball87 (Jan 4, 2005)

PirateFromHell said:
			
		

> One problem: normal people are stupid.


And you'd be surprised at how smart some people think they are, and how many people considered "smart" by general opinion because they articulate things well or for one reason or another, happen to be less and overly intelligent.


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## DemolitionNine (Jan 4, 2005)

Ok....  I must ask. 

 I'm just about to finish my M1T cycle...

 I can't find Nolvadex / don't have the money for it.  

 What else can I get to cut the Estrogen levels or help for my PCT ? 

 I apologize for the newb question....  but... you guys really know your stuff, and I really could use an answer on that one.


 Thanks.


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## gococksDJS (Jan 4, 2005)

DemolitionNine said:
			
		

> Ok.... I must ask.
> 
> I'm just about to finish my M1T cycle...
> 
> ...


 First off don't ever ever start a cycle without PCT on hand, i know it's a slim chance with M1T, but what if you started seeing gyno symptoms? Man boobies aren't as fun as everyone says they are. Is it that you can't get nolva or can't afford it? Because your alternative is 6-oxo, but it is going to be quite a bit more expensive than liquid nolva. If you can get your hands on some nolva, borrow some money from a friend and get it, you will keep more of your gains than with something as weak as 6-oxo, but if you can't get it, go for ergopharms 6-oxo, and keep your calorie intake up throughout PCT.


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## PreMier (Jan 4, 2005)

I love how people jump into the water, without seeing how deep it is first.  Why someone wouldnt do extensive research on something they are putting into their body, is beyond me.


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## simbh (Jan 4, 2005)

Gotta agree with premier on this . I live in Canada and its harder to get your hands on nolva // ph/ps than in the states. 6-oxo is still easy to get since its legal ... But man , I have everything except my pct to go. Sure I should be getting myy nolva pretty soon , but I don't want to start it before I get . But geezus , I don't know why someone would start taking something named methyl -1-testosterone without doing proper research.I don't know if its me or anything , but it just doesn't sound too natural. And just by the testosteron being in that name , you can see its a steroid.I thought it was a known fact that the basics of steroids was testosterone. I guess it isn't.To me , what is steroid , must be carefully researched. For the guy who said hes about to finish his cycle. Well dude , if you really have trouble getting your hands on nolva , at least get 6-oxo. At least. 

I may sound suprised , but I'm not really surprised. I remember this guy saying is libido has been down for months after taking 1-ad and it hasn't came back. D'uh , he didn't do a pct. And the guy asked us for help. When we all told him to go see his doctor , he still wouldn't listen to us... When will people learn ?


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## brokeass122 (Jan 4, 2005)

you need pct and just for the info i run a max muscle and wont sell a ph to anyone under 18 and warn them of all side effects and for pct i get them hooked up on 60x0 with a tribulus stack so not all people in those types of stores are shit heads


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## DemolitionNine (Jan 5, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> First off don't ever ever start a cycle without PCT on hand, i know it's a slim chance with M1T, but what if you started seeing gyno symptoms? Man boobies aren't as fun as everyone says they are. Is it that you can't get nolva or can't afford it? Because your alternative is 6-oxo, but it is going to be quite a bit more expensive than liquid nolva. If you can get your hands on some nolva, borrow some money from a friend and get it, you will keep more of your gains than with something as weak as 6-oxo, but if you can't get it, go for ergopharms 6-oxo, and keep your calorie intake up throughout PCT.


 Awesome.  Thanks for the info bro.

 I'll be tryin to get my hands on some Nolva here soon. 


 Which type is the best...  transdermally, or orally?


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## Du (Jan 5, 2005)

DemolitionNine said:
			
		

> Awesome. Thanks for the info bro.
> 
> I'll be tryin to get my hands on some Nolva here soon.
> 
> ...


Ive never seen transdermal nolva. It is taken orally.


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## DemolitionNine (Jan 5, 2005)

du510 said:
			
		

> Ive never seen transdermal nolva. It is taken orally.


 Oh, okie dokie.

 I haven't been able to find reasonably priced Nolva... 

 will a bottle of Ergopharm's 6-OXO do the trick?  I found a bottle for $27.95 for 60 caps. 

 I apologize to keep bugging you guys, but you've been a substantial help. 

 I couldn't believe it when I called up 2 of my local supplement stores, and they couldn't answer half the questions you guys have.  

 So, if this 6-OXO will work, I'll purchase some of that.

 Again, thanks to everyone for the help.  You've been quite indespensible


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## PreMier (Jan 5, 2005)

Your going to need 2 bottles of 60x0 I think..  Here is the dosage info

6OXO
6oxo is an aromatize inhibitor sold by Ergopharm. It is the best over the counter anti-estrogen available for post cycle use.
Week 1 ??? 600mg daily in two divided doses, morning and night
Week 2-3 ??? 400mg daily
Week 4 ??? 300mg daily


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## Du (Jan 5, 2005)

DemolitionNine said:
			
		

> Oh, okie dokie.
> 
> I haven't been able to find reasonably priced Nolva...
> 
> ...


just go to yahoo and type in tamoxifen citrate. someone else here just got good cheap nolva from some site... its around just check it out. 

6-oxo is overpriced, but works. just make sure you use a lot. 

While there are some supplment retailers that know their shit, most dont. Even if they pretend to, dotn believe them. As always, there are exceptions to this rule, but thats no reason to nto do your homework. You should always know as much as you possibly can about anything you are putting in your body.


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## DemolitionNine (Jan 5, 2005)

du510 said:
			
		

> just go to yahoo and type in tamoxifen citrate. someone else here just got good cheap nolva from some site... its around just check it out.
> 
> 6-oxo is overpriced, but works. just make sure you use a lot.
> 
> While there are some supplment retailers that know their shit, most dont. Even if they pretend to, dotn believe them. As always, there are exceptions to this rule, but thats no reason to nto do your homework. You should always know as much as you possibly can about anything you are putting in your body.


 2 bottles it is.

 However, I'll keep my eyes peeled for Nolvadex also.


 While I was looking around, I also noticed a supp called "Vitrix" by Nutrex.  Is this stuff good?  They say it's the best Testosterone booster out there. 

 However, does it cut down on the estrogen levels like Nolva or 6-OXO do?

 Again, thank you for the help... I just want to make sure I have my facts straight here.

 -Matt


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## Du (Jan 5, 2005)

DemolitionNine said:
			
		

> 2 bottles it is.
> 
> However, I'll keep my eyes peeled for Nolvadex also.
> 
> ...


Doesnt do shit for estrogen levels. 
It does help your natural test levels, but its way overpriced. 
If you want something similar, but better, check this out.


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## DemolitionNine (Jan 5, 2005)

du510 said:
			
		

> Doesnt do shit for estrogen levels.
> It does help your natural test levels, but its way overpriced.
> If you want something similar, but better, check this out.


 You da' man. 


 If I was to get that, would I need 6-OXO or Nolva *ALSO* as well as that stuff?


 Thanks!!


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## Du (Jan 5, 2005)

DemolitionNine said:
			
		

> You da' man.
> 
> 
> If I was to get that, would I need 6-OXO or Nolva *ALSO* as well as that stuff?
> ...


Yea youd still need a strong anti-estro. But, from experience, the stuff I showed you will help you feel better quicker. Ill get your lethargy gone better, libido up, etc etc. Seriously, try it. M1T is tough to recover from.


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## DemolitionNine (Jan 5, 2005)

du510 said:
			
		

> Yea youd still need a strong anti-estro. But, from experience, the stuff I showed you will help you feel better quicker. Ill get your lethargy gone better, libido up, etc etc. Seriously, try it. M1T is tough to recover from.


 Score.   



 Thanks bro...  you've helped me tremendously.

 -Matt


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## Du (Jan 5, 2005)

DemolitionNine said:
			
		

> Score.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not a problem, thats what we are here for.


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## simbh (Jan 5, 2005)

if youre looking for nolvadex ...

www.inhousedrugstore.com

Good shipping time about 7 days and I live in Canada plus it was holiday time , but for that kind of product I didn't mind waiting ...


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## DemolitionNine (Jan 6, 2005)

simbh said:
			
		

> if youre looking for nolvadex ...
> 
> www.inhousedrugstore.com
> 
> Good shipping time about 7 days and I live in Canada plus it was holiday time , but for that kind of product I didn't mind waiting ...


 Thanks bro.

 Actually, PirateFromHell has given me the hookup on Nolvadex.



 I've purchased some through him.


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## gococksDJS (Jan 6, 2005)

DemolitionNine said:
			
		

> Thanks bro.
> 
> Actually, PirateFromHell has given me the hookup on Nolvadex.
> 
> ...


 Be warned, he peed in my "nolvadex"...


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## gococksDJS (Jan 6, 2005)

just kidding


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## DemolitionNine (Jan 6, 2005)

J/K

lol. 

I trust him.  Pirate's a very reputable member on here, and really knows his stuff.  I'll be happy to have a PROPER PCT treatment this time after my cycle of M1T.  This'll be my last cycle of this for a WHILE.  I've liked the results, but I've found it to be a bit of a hassle in general, especially getting back to "normal".  

Anyway, goodday to you sir!

 

-Matt


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## gococksDJS (Jan 6, 2005)

DemolitionNine said:
			
		

> J/K
> 
> lol.
> 
> ...


 whats your dose, cycle length, pct and are you stacking it with anything like 4-Derm or running any HCG?


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## DemolitionNine (Jan 6, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> whats your dose, cycle length, pct and are you stacking it with anything like 4-Derm or running any HCG?


My dose is 20mg's daily.

Cycle Length: 3 weeks

I've been stacking it with Milk Thistle to help protect my liver, and for PCT I'm going to take Nolva and then a Test Booster (the one previosuly mentioned in this thread from bulknutrition.com)

I've felt some incredible gains from this cycle..  I've increased almost 70lbs on my bench, and 50 lbs on my squat.  My physical SIZE hasn't increased a ton, but my strength has shot up like a rocket.  I've been eating clean at around 3,300 calories a day, and drinking TONS of water.

-Matt


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## gococksDJS (Jan 6, 2005)

DemolitionNine said:
			
		

> My dose is 20mg's daily.
> 
> Cycle Length: 3 weeks
> 
> ...


 congrats man, sounds like a successful cycle.


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## DemolitionNine (Jan 6, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> congrats man, sounds like a successful cycle.


 
Thanks man.

 

I'm definitely happy with my results, and so is my GF.  I'm gunna start cutting here after my PCT as well.  I did manage to put on some fat on my abs (used to have a 6-pack, and that's gone right now).  So, I'm aiming to get the 6-pack back, and get my bodyfat % back into the 7-8% range like it used to be.  I still won't be very big, but definitely a LOT farther along than I was.  I've most certainly learned a lot from you guys on here about the PH's & such, and again, I really appreciate the info & the help.  You guys have steered me in the right direction, unlike the guys at my local supplement stores who never ONCE even told me about PCT's, and what to do properly.

Thanks.

Have a great day!

 

-Matt


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## simbh (Jan 6, 2005)

Glad to see it helped you and glad to see that you were opened to tips ... You'd be surprised how many guys come on here , ask for help and then don't even do what people say they should ... Anyways , hope you learned from this cycle though , next time , have your pct on hand before you start your cycle ! And from what I've seen you should be able to retain most of your gains with a nolva pct along with a tribulus based supplement. I don't know if you currently take creatine , but that could be a good thing to start taking in your pct to keep your gain and give you a little extra pump


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## DemolitionNine (Jan 6, 2005)

simbh said:
			
		

> Glad to see it helped you and glad to see that you were opened to tips ... You'd be surprised how many guys come on here , ask for help and then don't even do what people say they should ... Anyways , hope you learned from this cycle though , next time , have your pct on hand before you start your cycle ! And from what I've seen you should be able to retain most of your gains with a nolva pct along with a tribulus based supplement. I don't know if you currently take creatine , but that could be a good thing to start taking in your pct to keep your gain and give you a little extra pump


I've definitely learned a lot from this cycle, and if I decide to do another in the future will definitely have my PCT / Nolva handy before even starting the M1t or equivelant.  It was kind of idiotic on my part to just jump into a cycle, but I now know what to do, and how to do it.  I do have creatine handy, and will begin taking that again as part of my PCT.  I stopped taking it during my M1t because it kept cramping, and getting some pretty wicked pumps.  So, I'll jump back into that band-wagon after my M1t cycle is finished. 

After this cycle, I'll just continue on a High-Protein diet, creatine, and a multi-vitamin.  I'll continue taking milk-thistle until this bottle is done, to help my liver recover from the toxins of the M1t cycle.  

When I go to cut-up, should I try some Lipo 6 as well as shaking off 500 calories a day from my current diet?  I don't want to get into catabolism, so I'm thinking 500 off should be enough to start seeing a difference.  My current fat is just on top of my abs, and around my waist..  everywhere's else is very low fat.  (I have popped veins, etc).  

So anyway, my supps after cycle & pct will be:

Protein
Creatine
Multi-Vitamin
Milk-Thistle (until gone)

Is there anything else I need to do, or does that cover it ok?

Again, thanks guys.


-Matt


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## gococksDJS (Jan 6, 2005)

DemolitionNine said:
			
		

> 2 bottles it is.
> 
> However, I'll keep my eyes peeled for Nolvadex also.
> 
> ...


 Vitrix and other test boosters alone are not good for PCT, you need something that blocks estrogen at the receptors, which these don't do.


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## DemolitionNine (Jan 6, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> Vitrix and other test boosters alone are not good for PCT, you need something that blocks estrogen at the receptors, which these don't do.


Got it covered.   

I bought some Nolva. 

I'll go ahead and take a Test-Booster as well, to help bring my libido back up, etc.

Thanks man!

-matt


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## gococksDJS (Jan 6, 2005)

DemolitionNine said:
			
		

> Thanks man.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 wait until PCT, she won't be happy with her new flaccid friend...


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## DemolitionNine (Jan 6, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> wait until PCT, she won't be happy with her new flaccid friend...


 
 Why do you say that? 

 More aggression once I take that Testosterone booster you mentioned earlier ?

 Does the Nolvadex do something ? 




 Oh well! 

 hehe


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## gococksDJS (Jan 6, 2005)

DemolitionNine said:
			
		

> Why do you say that?
> 
> More aggression once I take that Testosterone booster you mentioned earlier ?
> 
> ...


 No i didn't mean that. When you come off your test levels will be that of a 5 year old girl, so if you wanna get a hard on I suggest 2 popsicle sticks and some tape to rig up a rudimentary splint.


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## PreMier (Jan 6, 2005)

I suggest.. THIS!


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## DemolitionNine (Jan 7, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> No i didn't mean that. When you come off your test levels will be that of a 5 year old girl, so if you wanna get a hard on I suggest 2 popsicle sticks and some tape to rig up a rudimentary splint.


 


 LOL.

 I see what you mean...


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## gococksDJS (Jan 7, 2005)

DemolitionNine said:
			
		

> LOL.
> 
> I see what you mean...


 It won't last to long since your running nolva...


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