# I need your honest opinions...



## CancerNV (Apr 12, 2005)

Here are some questions that trouble me...

1) Could Ronny Coleman (The dude thats always on the cover of Muscle in Fitness) beat up Mike Tyson in a boxing ring?  I know hes not a boxer but hes got to make up for that in sheer strength.

2) Why doesnt the NFL scout sumo wrestlers in Japan more?  Their built to be offensive lineman.

Thanks for your time.


----------



## vegman (Apr 12, 2005)

1) No, Tyson is too fast and experienced

2) They are too slow


----------



## Deeznuts (Apr 12, 2005)

This is perhaps the most random thread i've ever seen...


----------



## Flex (Apr 12, 2005)

vegman said:
			
		

> 1) No, Tyson is too fast and experienced
> 
> 2) They are too slow



^


----------



## Dale Mabry (Apr 12, 2005)

I think this is a cool thread, but it belongs elsewhere, I will move it in 5 minutes to the Open Chat.

Here are my answers-

Ronnie would get smoked by any boxer in the top 10, and boxing is currently in a decline.

As stated, sum wrestlers are too slow.  This is why on some occassions you see men who are 50lbs lighter than their opponent win.


----------



## Curlingcadys (Apr 12, 2005)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> I think this is a cool thread, but it belongs elsewhere, I will move it in 5 minutes to the Open Chat.
> 
> Here are my answers-
> 
> ...


 nuf said


----------



## Martinogdenbsx (Apr 12, 2005)

Ronnie Coleman would get smoked by quite a few people i think,just because you bodybuild dosn't make you win a fight,you know the saying the bigger they are the harder they fall,well i think that would apply there.But in saying that i think Tyson might be a bit wary of a guy that looks soo over powering and can leg press the whole of my colleage!!!and their family's!


----------



## CancerNV (Apr 13, 2005)

I disagree with all of you.

Ronny Coleman is a monster.  Hes 300 lbs of pure muscle.  He takes roids up the wazoo.  Side by side Ronny Coleman would make Mike Tyson look like Dave Chapell.  What he lacks in boxing skills he more than makes up for in sheer muscle.  If Coleman trained at boxing for 6months it would be a knockout in the first round.

Sumor wrestlers vary in size and strength a great deal.  The whole purpose of sumo wrestling is to line up in a lineman stance and attack your opposition with your whole body when they say go.  This is exactly what lineman have to do.  Im not saying all sumos would be great linemen but I think there is a great untapped resource over there.


----------



## Curlingcadys (Apr 13, 2005)

CancerNV said:
			
		

> I disagree with all of you.
> 
> Ronny Coleman is a monster. Hes 300 lbs of pure muscle. He takes roids up the wazoo. Side by side Ronny Coleman would make Mike Tyson look like Dave Chapell. What he lacks in boxing skills he more than makes up for in sheer muscle. If Coleman trained at boxing for 6months it would be a knockout in the first round.




 Takes more than 6 months to make a boxer, let alone one that could "move" the way HE'D NEED TO against tyson and even with a bit of training coleman would never be able to move the way he'd need to, just too big, and I'm just talking about todays Tyson go back to Tysons prime and coleman would be "chapelled" inside the 1st minute, no questions asked. Tyson would have a half dozen power shots fired off before coleman made one complete swing, it wouldn't even be worth getting the pay per view!

 I'd rather see coleman fight Roy Jones Jr, at least Roy would have to hit him twice to end the fight!


----------



## Squaggleboggin (Apr 13, 2005)

Well, this is sort of like facing a strong and muscular 300 lb guy with a 100 lb karate expert. Sure, the karate expert knows some moves, but would he be able to take on 300 lbs of muscle? Probably not. I mean sure, he could aim low and hope high, but if there were no cheap shots allowed, I think the bigger guy could pretty much take anything the smaller one did to him. Sure, the smaller guy is more agile, but if the bigger guy just stands there while the smaller one runs around, the bigger one will NOT get tired first... I've heard arguments like that, and I don't think they're really valid. I think it would take an EXTREMELY slow person to not even be able to touch another person (no, we're not talking about a football field here, people) in a ring-sized place. And once he has a grip on the smaller one, the little guy is basically screwed.


----------



## Curlingcadys (Apr 13, 2005)

Squaggleboggin said:
			
		

> Well, this is sort of like facing a strong and muscular 300 lb guy with a 100 lb karate expert. Sure, the karate expert knows some moves, but would he be able to take on 300 lbs of muscle?


 Sure even more so than the boxing senerio, more moves and more involved than just punching. And a hell of a lot more moves that someone such as coleman couldn't do effectively.



			
				squaggleboggin said:
			
		

> Probably not. I mean sure, he could aim low and hope high, but if there were no cheap shots allowed, I think the bigger guy could pretty much take anything the smaller one did to him.


 there wouldn't be "hoping" with a karate expert. And just cause a guy is a 300lb brick shit house doesn't mean he can take a punch or kick, maybe he could, maybe not who knows really maybe coleman would "lose his legs" with something as piddly as a jab thrown square to the chin. No matter how big you are you're either born with a solid chin are you're not, can't work that out in the gym.



			
				squaggleboggin said:
			
		

> Sure, the smaller guy is more agile, but if the bigger guy just stands there while the smaller one runs around, the bigger one will NOT get tired first... I've heard arguments like that, and I don't think they're really valid. I think it would take an EXTREMELY slow person to not even be able to touch another person (no, we're not talking about a football field here, people) in a ring-sized place.


 Yeah i'd agree but then again the conditioning probably wouldn't be as much of a factor for the boxing athlete(unless he over did his shaking and moving which does happen) And I'm not saying coleman would be able to hit him but he'd be so off target it wouldn't matter, Tyson would probably have some sore shoulders the next day cause by the time colemans punches got there thats probably where they'd land, if at all. 



			
				squaggleboggin said:
			
		

> And once he has a grip on the smaller one, the little guy is basically screwed.


 Sure I'd agree if we were talking about wrestleing or grappling, but wouldn't happen in karate or boxing, possibly in a street fight, but taking it to the street it would be a given there would be some "just in case" assets that the smaller guy would have.

 Personally I think someone like coleman would do better in a mixed martial art competition such as the UFC, just because I think his odds would be better to take somebody to the ground and just pound away. Granted there is more to defend against for obvious reasons but I think thats where his power would come greatly into play for I could see him just powering out of most the submitions that are used, with the exception of a couple chokes; then it would just be how determined the other guys was and how willing he was to hold on for the ride coleman would give him.


----------



## cappo5150 (Apr 13, 2005)

> Originally Posted by *Squaggleboggin*
> Well, this is sort of like facing a strong and muscular 300 lb guy with a 100 lb karate expert. Sure, the karate expert knows some moves, but would he be able to take on 300 lbs of muscle?


So you think that if Bruce Lee was alive, he couldn't beat the crap out of Ronnie?


----------



## Arnold (Apr 13, 2005)

Mike Tyson (or any pro heavy weight boxer) would knock out Ronnie Coleman in the blink of an eye, that is fact.

You are seriously insulting NFL lineman as athletes, it takes more than size and weight to be an NFL lineman.

Basically in both instances you are mistaking size, strength and size for athletic ability and experience. Just because Ronnie Colemen is the biggest and one of the strongest bodybuilders does not mean he can box. Same with sumo wrestlers, just because they weight 300-400lbs does not mean they could perform on a football field.

How old are you? Just curious.


----------



## DimebagDarrell (Apr 13, 2005)

so you know, NFL linemen have endurance up the ass.  they can run farther and faster than I can...


----------



## CancerNV (Apr 14, 2005)

Whos to say that Sumos dont have athletic ability and endurance?  Sumo wrestling is a very proud and competitive sport in certain places of the world.  To be the best you need to tap into every advantage youve got.  Speed, athletisism, endurance all would help a Sumo.

OK so most people think Ronnie Coleman takes forever to take a swing.  Lets put this outside or in a bar with no rules.  Would Tyson still be able to take on Coleman if he was allowed to grapple and tackle?


----------



## Dale Mabry (Apr 14, 2005)

CancerNV said:
			
		

> Lets put this outside or in a bar with no rules.  Would Tyson still be able to take on Coleman if he was allowed to grapple and tackle?



No, he would still be too slow and unflexible.  Plus, at his size, he would not be terribly hard to hit.  Also, Mike Tyson is still 220lbs, which is not something to sneeze at.


----------



## Decker (Apr 14, 2005)

CancerNV said:
			
		

> . Lets put this outside or in a bar with no rules. Would Tyson still be able to take on Coleman if he was allowed to grapple and tackle?


Pro fighters are extremely dangerous people.  Removing the constraints of the "marquise of queensbury rules" makes a pro even more dangerous.  Tyson would knock Coleman out.  Any average heavyweight could knockout Ronnie Coleman.  Probably alot of middleweights too.

Size and muscle can be mutually exclusive where fighting's concerned.  I saw Royce Gracie make many giants tap out and he's only 5'11" 170#.


----------



## Curlingcadys (Apr 14, 2005)

Decker said:
			
		

> I saw Royce Gracie make many giants tap out and he's only 5'11" 170#.


 Very good point, I usually didn't watch his fights in the entirety mainly cause it was just a little too much like a chess match to keep me interested, but he's great at what he does....very meathodical.


----------



## JoeR. (Apr 14, 2005)

Just imagine though, getting socked in the head by 300lbs of raw muscle.....

Asuming he could even move that quick, even blocking that tough would hurt.  No doubt any boxer could land hits on Ronnie and probably not even get hit by him.

Think of Ronnie in a street fight with someone like you or I, god that would suck lol.


----------



## Curlingcadys (Apr 14, 2005)

CancerNV said:
			
		

> Whos to say that Sumos dont have athletic ability and endurance?


 I'm sure they have some ok endurance and a good deal of strength but on the same token the majority of their matches aren't completely won because of sheer strength they're won because one of them got better leverage on the other and knocked their oponent off balance. But I like I said I do agree they have strength cause obviously it takes some strength to get the upper hand in leverage but also their own momentum mistakes also plays a big part.  

 But in a nutshell I think the vast majority would be cut before NFL training camp even ended, granted our lineman aren't all Ronnie Colemans BUT I'd stand firmly in saying that they still are in much better physical condition ie:endurance/stamina, speed, & atheltic ability not to mention they've got to be pretty damn good on the leverage game themselves.  Also I'd say NFL lineman have a bit more LBM as comparred to sumo's MBF(mushy body fat). Unless I've missed it somewhere I've yet to see a sumo and wonder how much he could bench, squat or DL however I have often wondered what would posess somebody to knowingly let themselves get that fat. Anyway enough rambling....


----------



## Curlingcadys (Apr 14, 2005)

JoeR. said:
			
		

> Just imagine though, getting socked in the head by 300lbs of raw muscle.....
> 
> Asuming he could even move that quick, even blocking that tough would hurt. No doubt any boxer could land hits on Ronnie and probably not even get hit by him.
> 
> Think of Ronnie in a street fight with someone like you or I, god that would suck lol.


 Yeah I think I'd call in sick the next week


----------



## Uzi9 (Apr 14, 2005)

Maybe you or I but not me   , lol


----------



## Mudge (Apr 14, 2005)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> just because they weight 300-400lbs does not mean they could perform on a football field.



Well, there are some 365ers on the football field


----------



## Arnold (Apr 14, 2005)

CancerNV said:
			
		

> OK so most people think Ronnie Coleman takes forever to take a swing.  Lets put this outside or in a bar with no rules.  Would Tyson still be able to take on Coleman if he was allowed to grapple and tackle?



take them out of the ring and Ronnie would get knocked out even quicker.

you have no understanding of boxing or fighting, it has very little to do with muscle or size, it has to do with being trained how to hit, speed, technique, etc. strength and power are important but only if you are trained to use it.

I could take Ronnie out, I am trained in karate. I would break one of his knees and he would fall like an oak tree, then one swift kick to the head and he would be out.


----------



## Arnold (Apr 14, 2005)

JoeR. said:
			
		

> Just imagine though, getting socked in the head by 300lbs of raw muscle.....
> 
> Asuming he could even move that quick, even blocking that tough would hurt.  No doubt any boxer could land hits on Ronnie and probably not even get hit by him.
> 
> Think of Ronnie in a street fight with someone like you or I, god that would suck lol.



I guarantee a pro middleweight boxer can punch harder than a 300lb muscle bound bodybuilder.


----------



## vegman (Apr 14, 2005)

You guys are really over thinking this. The fact is that Ron does not have the experience or the speed to hold up to Tyson or any other pro boxer. and sumo guys are even slower. By the time a sumo guy could go from standing to blocking, the other football team would be 20 yards down the field.


----------



## Curlingcadys (Apr 14, 2005)

vegman said:
			
		

> By the time a sumo guy could go from standing to blocking, the other football team would be 20 yards down the field.


 EXACTLY!!


----------



## largepkg (Apr 14, 2005)

Look at Bob Sapp. He's as big as a house but that doesn't help him win every match. Who was it that out lasted him for his first loss a few years back? Sapp got tired after 1 round and then got it taken to him. Granted he lost to an arm bar but hey, whatever works.

After seeing a few of his fights I didn't think anyone could beat him. I was wrong and now how a different understanding of size versus ability.


----------



## CursedOne (Apr 14, 2005)

more info on Royce Gracie:

The 34-year-old Gracie is one of nine children, seven of whom are boys. His training in Jiu-Jitsu began at a very early age as a game with his father Helio, now 88 years old. 

Royce's reputable career as a fighter began in 1993 after defeating three opponents in the first Ultimate Fighting Championship. His brother Rorion came up with this innovative challenge as a way to show Gracie Jiu-Jitsu to the world. Discipline after discipline was defeated by the slight 6'1'', 180 pound Royce Gracie. His opponents consistently outweighed him by more than 50 pounds. In the two-hour duration of the UFC I, Royce Gracie steamrolled three skilled opponents and collected $50,000. Several months later, he raked in an additional $60,000 by disposing of four more combatants in the UFC II. By the time the third UFC rolled around, tougher fighters were starting to line up to take a crack at the unbeaten Gracie.

Six months later Gracie is back at UFC 3 defending his title as the Ultimate Fighting Champion. His first match was against Kimo Leopoldo, a tattooed giant that outweighed Gracie by 80 lbs. Gracie won with an armlock, but had to be helped out of the ring as he was completely exhausted, and did not return to action that night. Three months later he returned to action in UFC 4, tapping Dan "The Beast" Severn in the finals.

Royce Gracie lost for the first time in a grappling-only match with another Brazilian-jujutsu expert, Wallid Ismail, at the Rio Oscars of Jiu-Jitsu at Copacobana Beach on December 17, 1998. 
In the premier match on a card that included 10 other fights, Gracie was defeated with a "clock choke," which Ismail executed approximately five minutes into the fight. Marco Ruas said for that fight: "I think Royce is a great fighter, it just wasn't his day, just like for me in Japan. "

Royce lost a second time (TKO - Towel Thrown Between Rounds) in Pride Grand Prix 2000 - Finals. In this epic battle against the renowned champion Kazushi Sakuraba Royce fought like a lion. 
After the 90 minute battle with Sakuraba, 90 minutes of punishing leg kicks, and 90 minutes without rest or water, Royce Gracie conceded the match and had his brother throw in the towel.  After 90 minutes, Gracie could no longer stand and suffered a broken femur. He would be out of action for a while so that his leg could heal.

Royce Gracie lost these fights,  proving that he is only human. He did not lose against any huge guys but against skilled martial artists, proving that he will not lose against brute force and muscles full of steroids. Even the great Muhammad Ali  lost a few fights but he still is the greatest boxer of all time.


----------



## Stallions05 (Apr 14, 2005)

CancerNV said:
			
		

> OK so most people think Ronnie Coleman takes forever to take a swing. Lets put this outside or in a bar with no rules. Would Tyson still be able to take on Coleman if he was allowed to grapple and tackle?


Mike Tyson? outside? no rules? thats like letting a bull out of the arena , In my opinion Mike Tyson would prob beat the crap ot of nearly all the other professional boxers in a outside fight. He would drop ronnie coleman with ease!


----------



## vegman (Apr 14, 2005)

Stallions05 said:
			
		

> Mike Tyson? outside? no rules? thats like letting a bull out of the arena , In my opinion Mike Tyson would prob beat the crap ot of nearly all the other professional boxers in a outside fight. He would drop ronnie coleman with ease!


and Ron would have no ears


----------



## Decker (Apr 15, 2005)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> I could take Ronnie out, I am trained in karate. I would break one of his knees and he would *fall like an oak tree*, then one swift kick to the head and he would be out.


I have whole bunch of wood left over from when I cleared my property.  If you're in the neighborhood, would you Kung Fu some of that wood into fireplace sized pieces?  I'd really appreciate it.


----------



## CancerNV (Apr 15, 2005)

CursedOne said:
			
		

> more info on Royce Gracie:
> 
> The 34-year-old Gracie is one of nine children, seven of whom are boys. His training in Jiu-Jitsu began at a very early age as a game with his father Helio, now 88 years old.
> 
> ...


That was an interesting read until i read the last line.  Ali would get smoked today by 90% of the heavyweights out there.  Ali physically would be a joke today.  George Foreman even said Lenox Louis is the greatest fighter of all time.


----------



## vegman (Apr 15, 2005)

CancerNV said:
			
		

> Ali would get smoked today by 90% of the heavyweights out there. Ali physically would be a joke today.


Ok dude


----------



## min0 lee (Apr 15, 2005)

Quote:


			
				CancerNV said:
			
		

> Ali would get smoked today by 90% of the heavyweights out there. Ali physically would be a joke today.


----------



## P-funk (Apr 15, 2005)

1) i could beat up ronnie coleman

2) I could play offensive line in the NFL


----------



## Dale Mabry (Apr 15, 2005)

CancerNV said:
			
		

> George Foreman even said Lenox Louis is the greatest fighter of all time.




Lennox Lewis isn't even the greatest fighter of the last 10 years.


----------



## Curlingcadys (Apr 15, 2005)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Lennox Lewis isn't even the greatest fighter of the last 10 years.


 

 totaly agree, he's a good fighter but to compare him to an icon such as Ali is a joke...in my opinion the only guy that did kind of holds a candle (a very small candle) as a pound for pound comarrison was Roy Jones Jr of old, in his prime, he moved alike, his action/reaction talent was comparable, and in a nut shell like Ali he was basically "untouchable" until the latter portion of his career. Not to mention his lengthy list of accomplishments as a pro.  But all in all I'd still say Ali has a pedestal to himself in the history books as does Roy Jones Jr but quite frankly the "workers" are still on lunch when it comes to Lenox Lewis's pedastal he was good but he is also FORGETABLE.


----------



## KentDog (Apr 15, 2005)

Roy Jones Jr. was definately one of my favs.  The only thing that has been unimpressive in his career was the four month time frame which he got KO'd by Tarver and Johnson; before that I believe he only had one loss.  I'd say pound for pound the greatest boxers nowadays are Benard Hopkins and Tito Trinidad.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 16, 2005)

I trained in one of Gracie's studios for a few months last year. The instructer was about 140lbs and skinny as hell. Looked about 16 (he was 22). There was also a large black guy in the class who would warm-up by taking the 100lb punching bag off the hook and twirling it all around his body and over his head (weighed probably 300, but not all muscle). EVERY single fight the instructor thrashed him. Not even close once. And every time I fought him, he'd kick my ass.


----------



## Curlingcadys (Apr 16, 2005)

KentDog said:
			
		

> Roy Jones Jr. was definately one of my favs. The only thing that has been unimpressive in his career was the four month time frame which he got KO'd by Tarver and Johnson; before that I believe he only had one loss. I'd say pound for pound the greatest boxers nowadays are Benard Hopkins and Tito Trinidad.


 Yeah I agree but shit happens and boxers suddenly become beatable at the end of their career! But yeah you're right he had one loss prior and that was a DQ for hitting Griffin I believe while he was on one knee.  But then he got a rematch and knocked griffin out in the 1st round.


----------



## CancerNV (Apr 19, 2005)

Curlingcadys said:
			
		

> totaly agree, he's a good fighter but to compare him to an icon such as Ali is a joke...in my opinion the only guy that did kind of holds a candle (a very small candle) as a pound for pound comarrison was Roy Jones Jr of old, in his prime, he moved alike, his action/reaction talent was comparable, and in a nut shell like Ali he was basically "untouchable" until the latter portion of his career. Not to mention his lengthy list of accomplishments as a pro. But all in all I'd still say Ali has a pedestal to himself in the history books as does Roy Jones Jr but quite frankly the "workers" are still on lunch when it comes to Lenox Lewis's pedastal he was good but he is also FORGETABLE.


Thats whats wrong with you people. You see an "Icon" and think no one can ever be better than him. You honestly dont think athletes are getting better and better as time goes on? The training methods and steroids athletes use today make the athletes of 30 years ago look like a joke. The Vince Lobardy Packers would get embaressed by most division 1 college teams today.

Lenox Lewis is 6'5'' and weighted in around 255 lbs for a fight. He was also ripped to shreds. Ali was 6'3'' and weighed in around 210 lbs for a fight. Theres no way he would last longer than 1 round against the 230+lb monsters that are in the boxing world today.

Hell, Tyson in the early 90's would make Ali shit his pants.


----------



## JayBee (Aug 12, 2005)

sory to bring the post back up... but i was just thinking.. ronnie is a cop.  im sure he could kick some ass.


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Aug 12, 2005)

JayBee said:
			
		

> sory to bring the post back up... but i was just thinking.. ronnie is a cop. im sure he could kick some ass.


 Cops aren't trained to fight are they?


----------



## JayBee (Aug 12, 2005)

cops can kick some ass... ever watch the show cops?  even without their sticks and guns... they still train them to fight and shit.... im pretty sure at least.


----------



## Mudge (Aug 12, 2005)

CancerNV said:
			
		

> 1) Could Ronny Coleman (The dude thats always on the cover of Muscle in Fitness) beat up Mike Tyson in a boxing ring?  I know hes not a boxer but hes got to make up for that in sheer strength.



If you can't ever hit a man, then you wont ever take him down no matter how much force is behind your punch. Targets move, they dont stand still.


----------



## Mudge (Aug 12, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> 1) i could beat up ronnie coleman
> 
> 2) I could play offensive line in the NFL



I COULD EAT YOUR CHILDREN!


----------



## JayBee (Aug 13, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> I COULD EAT YOUR CHILDREN!





HAHAHAHAHAHA that reminds me of an article i was just reading......


""The Beast" Vs. The Beast.....

It looks like Mike Tyson is getting ready to step back in the ring, but finding an opponent that will bring a big payday has been a problem.

Enter Bob Sapp. The champion of K-1 (fighting that combines boxing and martial arts) may be that man.

Let's take a look at the tale of the tape:

Bob Sapp is nicknamed "The Beast" because he's 6-foot-4, 350 pounds.
Mike Tyson is often called a beast because he's a convicted rapist.

Bob Sapp is nicknamed "The Beast" because he regularly pummels his opponents including the previous champ, twice.
Mike Tyson is often called a beast because he bit Evander Holyfield's ear, twice.

Bob Sapp is nicknamed "The Beast" because he once put an opponent in a coma (he recovered).
Mike Tyson is often called a beast because he threatened to eat Lennox Lewis' children (Lewis knocked him out).

Advantage: Sapp

Tyson may talk a good game, and he can usually take a punch, but Sapp is a cultural icon in Japan for a reason. He's big, he's strong, and when he hits you, you feel it for a week (unless you're in a coma).

I'd pay to see this beating."


----------



## Brandon (Aug 13, 2005)

is the tyson/sapp fight really gonna happen?  i saw a fight where sapp was running his mouth to tyson, but i didn't know if they'd ever fight.  this should be a good one.  dammit, as much as i hate bob sapp, i really don't think tyson in his current condition can do shit against him.

to the original poster... you've got to be kidding, a body builder vs a fucking professional boxer?  the fight would never even come close to the end of the first round before coleman was knocked out.  that fight would be a joke.


----------



## JayBee (Aug 13, 2005)

i doub it will ever happen, also.  i saw that talk down a while back haha... id love to see that fight though.  bob sapp and mike tyson are my heros....whenever im in the bottom of a squat i just think.... what would mike tyson do...  and then i think about how hed probably try to eat my little sister and i pass out..


----------

