# what happens if you eat alot of carbs and fat after stric keto diet



## anakada (Jul 14, 2010)

Hello there.

I am female 5ft 2 and weigh 117lb. 

I have been on strict Atkins diet for 3 weeks and lost 8lb. I have also put on lean muscle. I put on muscle very quickly. I am not trying to lose weight it's just coming off. I am trying to stay the same weight and lose a bit of fat. 

I bought some Indian Sweets yesterday. They are heavy and contain  butter, gram flour, sugar, nuts, dates and so on. 

I ate maybe 350 grams of sweets today after not eating carbohydrates for 3 weeks except berries- I don't feel hungry again a few hours after eating them. I am finding myself mentally alert can breath better and on the ball again with lots of energy. It feels like my body was starved of glucose and that it has been "sucked" into my body like a vaccuum.

If you have very low glycogen levels in your body on a Keto diet what happens when you  suddenly eat heavy sweets/cakes?

Do you put on fat in the same way you would if you are on a normal diet or does something different happen because your body is used to burning keytones?

Can I switch between carbohydrates and keto and still burn fat?


----------



## FMJ (Jul 14, 2010)

I know that while on a carb cycling diet, a period of about 4 days of low carbs is used to deplete glycogen in the muscles followed by about 2 days of high carbs. Because your muscles are so glycogen depleted after the 4 days, your bodies first priority is to use all those carbs to restore gycogen levels. It's been suggested that regardless the type of carbs, they are not only not stored as fat, but the body itself continues to burn it's fat stores for energy while using the carbs from the high carb days to restore glycogen. 
However, this is for a cyclical diet. I don't know if this is still the case when on low carbs for such an extended peiod of time with no break.


----------



## blergs. (Jul 14, 2010)

well this happens:


----------



## Merkaba (Jul 14, 2010)

How do you know you gained muscle?  How did you measure this?  

You generally feel great.  Some people start craving them more.  I know I do.  You will usually gain water weight as carbs will make you hold in more water.  Read this: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/diet-nutrition/25250-refeeds-leptin.html


----------



## anakada (Jul 15, 2010)

Thanks for the article. It says don't eat fat so I'm not doing it right  but will see what happens anyway. I ate a couple more and decided to put  the rest of them in the freezer so I am back to low carb.

I can see the muscle gains and am using heavier  weights for some excercises than when I started. I am only eating 1400 calories ( because that's all I can manage on low carb) but I'm eating alot of protein. I also eat nuts to get enough fat. I find the more fat I eat the more I lose weight. If I try to go low on the fat I burn muscle.


----------



## sassy69 (Jul 15, 2010)

The basis of Atkins is fast "weight loss" initially - and because you're not eating carbs, you're dumping water weight - because carbs require water to hold them (this is how you 'fill out' when you carb load, and look 'flat' when you dump water. So that will explain the weight loss. This also doesnt' necessarily mean anything in terms of "building muscle". For your height and weight, 1400 cals is not really what I"d call restrictive. It would be interesting to see what macronutrient ratio you're working with - i.e % protein, fat and carbs. Note that most nuts have about 6g of carbs per 1 oz of nuts, so if you're eating lots of nuts, you're getting some carbs.  I'd also say if you're getting enough cals in general you're getting fuel for lifting. Further, if you've only started lifting consistently ,recently, you should see some progress, almost regardless of your diet. If you drop the fats, are you replacing the cals w/ more protein? If you're dropping the fats and not replacing the cals, you're probably dropping your total cals too low to really function efficinetly and then I would expect to see some catabolism.


----------



## Gawd (Jul 15, 2010)

I was told by a nutritionist once (the son of Udo Eranimus, the udo oil guy), that when your on a carb depleted diet for a while then suddenly binge on carbs, you run the risk of expanding and possibly tearing your heart, being that it's a muscle.  I don't know how true this is as people carb load on keto diets all the time.


----------



## sassy69 (Jul 15, 2010)

Gawd said:


> I was told by a nutritionist once (the son of Udo Eranimus, the udo oil guy), that when your on a carb depleted diet for a while then suddenly binge on carbs, you run the risk of expanding and possibly tearing your heart, being that it's a muscle.  I don't know how true this is as people carb load on keto diets all the time.




Damn, I never heard that.... altho for carb loads I'd recommend clean carbs instead of shitloading w/ lots of sugar, heavy fat, etc.


----------



## Built (Jul 15, 2010)

anakada said:


> Hello there.
> 
> I am female 5ft 2 and weigh 117lb.
> 
> I have been on strict Atkins diet for 3 weeks and lost 8lb. I have also put on lean muscle.



No, you have not. 





> I put on muscle very quickly. I am not trying to lose weight it's just coming off. I am trying to stay the same weight and lose a bit of fat.


this will not be possible without steroids. Sorry. 


> I bought some Indian Sweets yesterday. They are heavy and contain  butter, gram flour, sugar, nuts, dates and so on.
> 
> I ate maybe 350 grams of sweets today after not eating carbohydrates for 3 weeks except berries- I don't feel hungry again a few hours after eating them. I am finding myself mentally alert can breath better and on the ball again with lots of energy. It feels like my body was starved of glucose and that it has been "sucked" into my body like a vaccuum.
> 
> ...



If you are in a caloric deficit, you will drop fat regardless of the mix of protein, carb and fat. Just the way it is. Your scale will say you've gained though, you'll be holding glycogen and glycogen holds water. 



Gawd said:


> I was told by a nutritionist once (the son of Udo Eranimus, the udo oil guy), that when your on a carb depleted diet for a while then suddenly binge on carbs, you run the risk of expanding and possibly tearing your heart, being that it's a muscle.  I don't know how true this is as people carb load on keto diets all the time.



ROFLMFAO! I love it!

And not a word of it true. 





anakada said:


> I can see the muscle gains and am using heavier  weights for some excercises than when I started.


I guarantee you this was not muscle gain. Not in a deficit. Not in three weeks while you lost 8 pounds (four of which were water, but still...) the strength gains you enjoyed are neural - you can get stronger without gaining muscle. Happens when you switch to lower rep range work, too. 





> I am only eating 1400 calories ( because that's all I can manage on low carb) but I'm eating alot of protein. I also eat nuts to get enough fat. I find the more fat I eat the more I lose weight. If I try to go low on the fat I burn muscle.


----------



## Gawd (Jul 15, 2010)

Built said:


> ROFLMFAO! I love it!
> 
> And not a word of it true.


Yea.  Seemed far fetched and I was unable to find one report of this happening.


----------



## Built (Jul 15, 2010)

I'm not a fan of Udo's oil anyway. I'll stick to fish oil and walnuts (not together!) thanks.


----------



## Jodi (Jul 15, 2010)

That sounds yummy!  Fish oil covered walnuts 

jk


----------



## Gawd (Jul 15, 2010)

Jodi said:


> That sounds yummy!  Fish oil covered walnuts
> 
> jk


Fishnuts.


----------



## Built (Jul 16, 2010)

Gawd said:


> Fishnuts.


Fishnuts ™


----------



## anakada (Jul 16, 2010)

sassy69 said:


> The basis of Atkins is fast "weight loss" initially - and because you're not eating carbs, you're dumping water weight - because carbs require water to hold them (this is how you 'fill out' when you carb load, and look 'flat' when you dump water. So that will explain the weight loss. This also doesnt' necessarily mean anything in terms of "building muscle". For your height and weight, 1400 cals is not really what I"d call restrictive. It would be interesting to see what macronutrient ratio you're working with - i.e % protein, fat and carbs. Note that most nuts have about 6g of carbs per 1 oz of nuts, so if you're eating lots of nuts, you're getting some carbs.  I'd also say if you're getting enough cals in general you're getting fuel for lifting. Further, if you've only started lifting consistently ,recently, you should see some progress, almost regardless of your diet. If you drop the fats, are you replacing the cals w/ more protein? If you're dropping the fats and not replacing the cals, you're probably dropping your total cals too low to really function efficinetly and then I would expect to see some catabolism.



I am pleased that someone talks sense. I was worried to say I put on muscle at the same time as losing fat as people are not realistic to say it's impossible. I didn't know about water retention. I drank alot of water yesterday and it did make me expand but  I can see I have lost fat - the skin has tightened up and alot of ugly cellulite is gone. 
My stomach went flat because I didn't have too much fat on it to start with. You can tell when you have lost fat as it changes the shape of your body. When you lose water, you look the same but smaller. 

I am eating 40 grams carbs, 90 grams protein, 110+ grams of fat.
I eat 25 grams basic then add some other bits to increase it to 40 grams e.g. a few berries/tomato purree/snowpeas/ground almonds. I was losing weight too quickly.... The nuts are brazil nuts and the packet says 3.1 grams carbs per 100 grams. 

I expect eating those fatty sweets makes you fat but just wanted to check that if you haven't been eating carbs and your body is burning fat for energy perhaps you don't get fat - if you do it for a short period.


----------



## sassy69 (Jul 16, 2010)

anakada said:


> I am pleased that someone talks sense. I was worried to say I put on muscle at the same time as losing fat as people are not realistic to say it's impossible. I didn't know about water retention. I drank alot of water yesterday and it did make me expand but  I can see I have lost fat - the skin has tightened up and alot of ugly cellulite is gone.
> My stomach went flat because I didn't have too much fat on it to start with. You can tell when you have lost fat as it changes the shape of your body. When you lose water, you look the same but smaller.
> 
> I am eating 40 grams carbs, 90 grams protein, 110+ grams of fat.
> ...



You can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time - this is most possible for beginners because they are probably operating at not great muscle content anyway - i.e. doing anything relative to nothing would produce some muscle increase.

RE: fat loss - I don't want to burst your bubble, but again, on an atkins diet, you're cutting out carbs, and since carbs require water to hold them, no carbs means you are going to drop the water. Thus the dramatic weight loss on the scale when you start an atkins diet. It is water weight. The number I've seen most often called out for literal fat loss in terms of weight is about 1/2 lb / week. And yes, dropping water will make skin tighter and all the other things you're seeing. In fact what you would see when you're getting some serious fat loss going is more likely a "deflated" look around the mid-section - that is showing you that you've lost some fat there but the skin hasn't caught up yet.  W/ continued dieting, the fat pockets in the skin and your skin's elasticity will catch up and start to tighten.

The best way to determine "fat loss" is either by how your clothes fit or by getting your bodyfat measured - either by 7-9 point skin fold measured via calipers (doesnt' really provide an accurate absolute bodyfat measure, but gives a decent tracking of relative changes from measure time to measure time - e.g. every 3 days) or via hydrostatic test.


----------



## jmorrison (Jul 16, 2010)

anakada said:


> I am pleased that someone talks sense. I was worried to say I put on muscle at the same time as losing fat as people are not realistic to say it's impossible. I didn't know about water retention. I drank alot of water yesterday and it did make me expand but  I can see I have lost fat - the skin has tightened up and alot of ugly cellulite is gone.
> My stomach went flat because I didn't have too much fat on it to start with. You can tell when you have lost fat as it changes the shape of your body. When you lose water, you look the same but smaller.
> 
> I am eating 40 grams carbs, 90 grams protein, 110+ grams of fat.
> ...




I have only been on BBing forums for a couple of years, but the ability of some people to ask for advice, and then not only completely ignore it, but actually ARGUE with it still astounds me.  

You are one amazing chick.

P.S.  Built and Sassy are easily the most knowledgeable women on this board in regards to weight loss/Training, and quite possibly among the the most knowledgeable women in the world in these regards.  I admire how you do not let this slow you down when it comes to contradicting them.


----------



## anakada (Jul 18, 2010)

There is lots of good  advice and I am grateful for the support.

I didn't expect someone to tell me straight out everything I said is not true. 

Built is very feisty  

I am saying to myself how, why, what does that do about everything not really arguing. 

And I love Sassy's advice so I don't know what you are seeing.

I am pleased to learn that alot of the weight loss it is water and will come back on again when I eat carbs.

1.5lb is a fair amount of fat - (part of me thinks I have lost more). Sometimes I just look in the mirror and can't believe it. Some of the things that Sassy is saying are happening - I have lost 4 inches off my waist and my hip bones starting to stick out. I usually wear size 6 tops and this is why I am worried about it. 

I haven't trained my abs properly so there is nothing there. I have strong sides from general training but nothing at the front.


I am trying to eat and drink more and hopefully I won't lose much more weight.


----------



## Built (Jul 18, 2010)

Nothing wrong with dropping water weight - carbs tend to make a body look smooth and a bit bloated. Drop the carbs and you drop the bloat, glycogen, the water bound up with glycogen, and a lot of inflammation (insulin promotes inflammation). There is no doubt you look and feel better. 

"Built is very feisty" LMAO I love this!


----------



## anakada (Jul 18, 2010)

xxx


----------



## anakada (Jul 18, 2010)

Does it matter when you eat carbs? I might eat them once a week over a few hours and then go back to low carb for the rest of the week. 
Should I eat them after training?


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 19, 2010)

Having done Category 1 PSMF for 24 days before going on vacation and then following up with basic eating of carbs and not really caring about what I ate-although I did eat pretty cleanly, I can tell that I filled out well-swelled up nicely, added 8 lbs within a week and smoothed out a bit. I'm not concerned, only because it felt great, and I know I will lose it within a week or two, and lastly it's just water with maybe a pound or two of fat.


----------



## anakada (Jul 19, 2010)

I went training today and discovered have lost weight. It's only 1lb   but my backside is sagging  I weigh 8 stone 4lb.  Also I ate around 2000 calories the past couple of days and have been  drinking alot of water. I think am retaining muscle but I look thinner  so I can't tell. I'm not  putting on more as I was in the beginning.

 I ate roast chicken breast with skin, 50 grams brazil nuts and salad, 4  teaspoons of omega 3:6:9, vitamin c, antioxidants, vitamin pill  immediately before training.

 My legs turned to jelly and trembled even sitting down resting. I was  there for 90 minutes with long rests in between excercises. I thought if  I eat before I am going to have energy but the opposite happened. I  managed heavier weight with biceps but had difficulty with other  excercises doing same weight. I managed to do 10-15 squats per set but  normally I can do 30.  

 What causes the jelliness and trembling - is it safe to eat before  training?
 Does lack of certain nutrients cause this?


----------



## Built (Jul 20, 2010)

Hey, props on the pound down!

Now, the 3-6-9 I'd ditch and replace it with just omega-3 (ie fish oil). The others are a waste, since they are both plentiful in your diet already. 

Why do you usually do 30 rep squats?


----------



## anakada (Jul 20, 2010)

I bought the 3:6:9 a long time ago and just want to use it up. I won't get it again and will stick with fish oil.

It contains extra virgin olive oil, linseed, evening primrose and sesame. 2 tablespoons contains 5.5 grams omega 3. So I can put it on my salad and not overdose on it.

I practiced on the leg press first and went to 146kg but then back down to 124kg. I found doing leg press helps me to do squats. I just picked up the bar  and did 30 reps .

But one time I collapsed after 2 reps when I put 10kg on the bar . I curled over backwards in slow motion I got stuck and someone needed to help me up.   . 

I have only been doing squats for 3 sessions. But I trained heavily 18 years ago so it's not completely new.

I don't mind breaking this diet sometimes to get more energy for training but don't know when and what to eat to get that extra energy. If I eat carbs in the middle of a session doesn't make me feel better.

I am hoping if I just keep doing as many as I can without the weight then eventually I might find it easier to start putting the weight on. I don't know what else to do.
It's also heavy on the shoulders. 

I stopped doing leg press for now. I thought if I tire myself out with leg press then I might not be able to do the squats.


----------



## Built (Jul 20, 2010)

Why 30 reps for squats?


----------



## anakada (Jul 20, 2010)

It doesn't feel like anything for the first 18 reps and only works my legs hard enough for the next 12 and I can't do more than 2 reps with 10kg without collapsing. I thought I would be able to do 10kg for 8-10 reps.


----------



## Built (Jul 20, 2010)

If it doesn't feel like anything for 18 reps, don't you think it's time to increase your weight? I don't go over 12 reps for squats. (Usually I don't go over 5 reps for squats!)


----------



## anakada (Jul 20, 2010)

I have a problem that although I can do 30 reps with the bar. If I put on more weight I can only do 2 reps and then my legs give way. I have the same with some other excercises, I can do a certain weight for 8-10 reps but can't do one rep with a higher weight on it.


----------



## Built (Jul 20, 2010)

How much is the bar, and how much do you add?


----------



## anakada (Jul 20, 2010)

The bar is 25.5kg and I added 10kg. It felt heavy but not that I expected not to be able to do it.


----------



## Built (Jul 21, 2010)

Indeed. I don't understand why the addition of 10kg would mean a reduction from 30 reps to 2 reps.


----------



## omerta2010 (Jul 21, 2010)

anakada said:


> I have a problem that although I can do 30 reps with the bar. If I put on more weight I can only do 2 reps and then my legs give way. I have the same with some other excercises, I can do a certain weight for 8-10 reps but can't do one rep with a higher weight on it.


 
Sounds like a mental issue. Because it "feels heavier" your mind is distracted from everything and focused to much on the weight.

I've had that happen on DB benchpress, were I messed up my sets because the 75's just "felt heavy" before even trying the first rep. 

I suggest, you load up the bar with the weight you want to use for the next workout and just get into the position and hold it for a few seconds to a minute. You'll force your body to become more acustom to the added weight and it'll feel more natural for the next time you perform the exercise.

Just my $.02 and something I've used before.


----------



## Built (Jul 21, 2010)

I've done this too.

Another thing you can do is to say "okay, I'm going to do ten reps today" - if you can do two, then do two. Then do another one or two later on, and then another one when you can...  until you've done all ten reps. Eventually you'll be able to string 'em all together into one set.


----------



## danzik17 (Jul 21, 2010)

That's where cheater quarter squats come in.  I used to load up on my next week's target weight and do a set of 5-10 quarter squats.  More mental than anything else.


----------



## anakada (Jul 21, 2010)

I will be trying some of  these things out when I get my strength back.
I am finding on this diet my legs are shaking after doing squats. I'm more likely to drop it. I don't want to risk injury


----------



## Merkaba (Jul 21, 2010)

Built said:


> Indeed. I don't understand why the addition of 10kg would mean a reduction from 30 reps to 2 reps.



Could be bad form


----------

