# Flax seed oil



## basenji (Dec 17, 2001)

I know its good for you but how do you drink it without puking


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## Skyliner (Dec 18, 2001)

You can use it for cooking (love to scramble my eggs with it), mix in rice, mix in tuna, mix in soup, etc.

A common way is puting 1 tablespoon of mayonise inside the tuna, along with Flax Seed Oil.


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## gopro (Dec 18, 2001)

SKYLINER!!!! DO NOT COOK WITH FLAX SEED OIL!!! It must be taken straight from the refridgerator...cooking it destroys ALL of its beneficial properties! You can cook with olive or canola oil, BUT NOT FLAX!!

I drink flax right off a spoon, but you can also mix it in a protein drink. They also have flax gel caps, but they are not very cost effective.


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## MtnBikerChk (Dec 18, 2001)

tell me the benefits of flax again?


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## w8lifter (Dec 18, 2001)

Eeeewww, cook w/ it  I down it w/ my shake


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## will7013 (Dec 18, 2001)

hold your nose and go at it


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## gopro (Dec 18, 2001)

MBC...the benefits of flax...

High in EFA's, or essential fatty acids, flax contributes to the structural component of cell membranes. They help us form prostaglandins in the body, which are hormone-like substances that play many vital roles. Some include: proper regulation of blood pressure, heart function, allergic response, inflammation, nerve transmission, and steroid-like hormone production. Flax can also be an aid to mild depression, will raise insulin sensitivity, and increase thermogenesis.

Good stuff!


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## Skyliner (Dec 18, 2001)

Thanks for the info gopro, I never knew that. Luckily I just starting cooking with it recently  Guess I'll just pour it over my chicken or mix with rice.

[edit]Wait a minute, after reading this post, I took out my Flax Seed Oil and tried chucking it down w/o mixing with anything. I realised that all I have to do is stuff that tablespoon of oil inside my mouth, and gulp it down with some water. There you have it, I can't feel anything! Silly me, I should have just done this a long time ago


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## Frogger (Dec 18, 2001)

I didnt know you werent supposed to cook with it! I , too, am glad I just started it.


_<-----learns something new everyday._


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## MtnBikerChk (Dec 19, 2001)

so now I've got another thing to buy......


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 19, 2001)

I don't know...gulping down oil seems kind of gross to me.  What's it like?


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## Skyliner (Dec 19, 2001)

> _*Originally posted by I Are Baboon *_
> I don't know...gulping down oil seems kind of gross to me.  What's it like?



It felt tasteless to me. Just be sure to gulp it down with alot of water together.


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## I Are Baboon (Dec 19, 2001)

> _*Originally posted by Skyliner *_
> 
> 
> It felt tasteless to me. Just be sure to gulp it down with alot of water together.



Hmmm....maybe I'll try it.  What'd you pay for yours?

Any time in particular a "better" time to take it?


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## w8lifter (Dec 19, 2001)

> _*Originally posted by I Are Baboon *_
> I don't know...gulping down oil seems kind of gross to me.  What's it like?



It is the most disgusting tasting thing on the planet. Of course, you have to try it solo just to find out what it's like , but it's nasty.  Try to get a blended oil, like Udo's...it's has both the Omega 3 & 6's.  Try not to take it post workout, cause fat will reduce the insulin response and you want a high response post-workout.


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## HickeyNC (Dec 19, 2001)

> _*Originally posted by I Are Baboon *_
> I don't know...gulping down oil seems kind of gross to me.  What's it like?




Dude, you mean you have never chugged anything like a quart of motor oil or anything similar??? Where have you been??? LOL

Great post gopro. Thanks for sharing that info. Learn something new everyday.


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## MtnBikerChk (Dec 19, 2001)

Did you ever see the movie Moving VIolations?  GOOD STUFF!


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## w8lifter (Dec 19, 2001)

> _*Originally posted by HickeyNC *_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's exactly what it smells like .....motor oil!


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## MAX (Dec 19, 2001)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> 
> 
> That's exactly what it smells like .....motor oil!




Yummy.... 
 

I just went out and got some....  Like MtnBikerChk said " so now I've got another thing to buy...."  But it sounds very inportant what else do you recommend gopro???

Any other yummy treats???


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## MtnBikerChk (Dec 19, 2001)

> _*Originally posted by MAX *_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So did you buy me some too??


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## gopro (Dec 19, 2001)

Wow...a flax attack! Flax can be used anytime during the day, except post workout. One to 3 tablespoons per day is good for most. When on a very low carb diet, this stuff is a lifesaver. Either put it in a drink or over rice or just drink it...YOU CAN HANDLE IT...its not that bad, especially when you chase it with  a doughnut...oops, just kidding! 

Udo's Choice is a great oil as it is even better balanced in EFA's than regular flax...but if you don't have access to it, flax will work fine.

Note: other healthy oils...safflower, borage, primrose, virgin olive, canola, fish oils.


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## MAX (Dec 20, 2001)

> _*Originally posted by MtnBikerChk *_
> 
> 
> So did you buy me some too??




Got some yesterday and downed it straight fromt he spoon last night.. Not problem and it wasn't that bad at all....  I used to Chug 2-3 raw eggs post work-out years ago and compared to that.. the oil is a breeze 
 


Also thanks the w8 and gorpo for the No-Post work out tip because thats when I was gonna take it with my protien shake.. but now I'll stick to Pre-bedtime


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## Skyliner (Dec 20, 2001)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Flax can be used anytime during the day, except post workout.



gopro, why couldn't Flax Oil be consumed during post workout?


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## gopro (Dec 21, 2001)

You are better off not using flax at your 1st POST workout meal because we need the protein and carbs in our systems as quickly as possible at this time. Flax, like any fat, will slow absorption of protein and carbs.


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## arbntmare (Jan 22, 2003)

gopro.. u said u get it from refrigator.. is this stuff suppose to be refgriated?@?$


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## w8lifter (Jan 22, 2003)

Yes


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## P-funk (Jan 22, 2003)

How do you guys not like the taste of plain flax from the spoon.

I love that stuff.  It tastes like walnuts.  I would drink it right out of the bottle if could.

Ypu can also mix it with apple cider vinegar and pour it over veggies.


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## arbntmare (Jan 22, 2003)

does it go bad???

also i thought it was just plain oil.. i gotta check if my stuff went bad.. only used a little once long time ago.. but i will check it out now..

peace


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## ZECH (Jan 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by I Are Baboon *_
> Hmmm....maybe I'll try it.  What'd you pay for yours?


 I buy the liquid in pint size(16 oz.) for about $15.
I really think this is a must have for good health. It has made a big difference in my cholesterol and blood pressure in the past year. I buy a garlic/herb dressing in a pack(Good seasons). You mix it with water, vinegar and oil. I use the flax oil instaed of oil and it is really good. Can't tell the difference.


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## arbntmare (Jan 22, 2003)

Few mins ago I was late to work, but I haven't ate dinner so i just grilled two chicken breast pieces.. then dipped the chicken insomething i made which was A1 + 2 Table spoons of Flax Oil, and Lemon Juice... it was GREAAAT!... lets just hope my stomach can handle that kinda of risky stuff....


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## lean_n_76er (Jan 22, 2003)

OK, here's a good question for you...  if you are not supposed to drink flax with your post workout shake... and you should take it with your protein before bed time... when should I take mine... I get home from work, work out and then go to bed.  BTW, I work nights, that's why.  Hope you can help.


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## Jenny (Jan 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> You are better off not using flax at your 1st POST workout meal because we need the protein and carbs in our systems as quickly as possible at this time. Flax, like any fat, will slow absorption of protein and carbs.



I'm on DP/W8 low-carb.. Should I try getting the few carbs I do eat in my post workout meal? Did not think of the slowed avsorption..  Protein alone would not be good either, right? Dang, I wanted those carbs for b-fast!


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## w8lifter (Jan 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Nike_Girl *_
> I'm on DP/W8 low-carb.. Should I try getting the few carbs I do eat in my post workout meal? Did not think of the slowed avsorption..  Protein alone would not be good either, right? Dang, I wanted those carbs for b-fast!




Keep your carbs at breakfast if you like....we don't do PWO spike, but if you wanted to do your carbs PWO you could, though you still need the fat in your PWO meal.


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## gopro (Jan 23, 2003)

I can't speak directly about W8 and DPs plan, but in my opinion your carbs should be taken post workout without fats. Depending on how many daily carbs you take in, you can take 1/3 with breakfast and the other 2/3 with post workout. Post workout carbs are too important to miss out on IMO.


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 23, 2003)

OK...I'm entering the fray!  This is JMHO and I expect NO flaming...this thread had to be closed on 'another' board because people couldn't accept an "opinion" that was contrary to "conventional wisdom"

This is for those CUTTING ONLY! 

First:

BTW...flax doesn't taste that bad...and you shouldn't cook w/it....low smoking point.  Add it to food after it is cooked and still hot. 

You will find that meso-endo's and endo's esp....would benefit more by keeping their metabolism/glucagon/fat oxidation elevated, rather than reducing cortisol and inducing insulin by omitting fat and/or fiber PWO?   


Additionally speaking of adding fat/fiber....most w/strong metabolisms don't need to do this, the ones with slower/poorer metabolisms wonder why they can't get lean when they don't this, LOL 

But then again, this is about "our philosophies" (DP and w8's)..and we may agree or disagree.  And we are only speaking in the context of cutting....where a person may place "fat burning" ahead of "Optimal Recovery" 


TBC (to be continued)  FYI these are snippits from w8's Journal when I didn't notice her early reply was over a year od

DP


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 23, 2003)

more......

We had (w8 and I) discussed were PWO shakes  (protein/simple sugars) and such may be beneficial to non-IR's, slower carbs plus protein for the next metabolic class...and for the IR masses who cut..... We are of the unified contention of "Why waste 3 hours leaving low insulin space, and 3 hours getting back to were you would have been, 6 hours....for the sake of recovery versus fat loss/oxidation"

 We further agreed that the post W/O meal when cutting fell in it's time slot...as to gastic emptying....2-2.5 hours post shake, 3 hours post solid meal, irregardless.....and if the metabolism stayed elevated...so be it?  

TBC

DP


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 23, 2003)

Is was then brought up by Cornfield:





> _*Originally posted by cornfed *_
> Actually, I'm a meso w/ moderate endo-tendencies.      My metabolism isn't that gr8
> 
> "fat-burning" or catabolism    but what the sh!t?



I replied:

There are "ways" to prevent/forestall catabolism my Corny friend, that don't involve insulin spiking!  

The trouble with insulin spiking/surging...and your "endo" tendencies...is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to determine the proper level of carbohydrate/glycogen  replenishment for your degree of hepatic/skeletal depletion, IR response or lack of one, and blood chemistry at the moment!

Unless you know your body extremely well.........it's a very very  difficult science.  It's so much easier just not to "go there!"  

Cornbro.... apparently owns a glucometer and felt he had this wired....(unless I was missing something, if so excuse me please)

This point was....most don't know if 75 grams of carbs, 50 grams or even 35 grams...... that sets off an insulin cascade that goes beyond glycogen replacement to Lipogenesis.  It's easier/more practical to use tried and true cutting techniques that yeild maximum results, again taking into account your somatotype, metabolism, and blood chemistry at the time...... 


DP


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## Jenny (Jan 23, 2003)

Thank you Dp/WB! and Gopro!

I'll continue with what I'm doing.. Thanks


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## gopro (Jan 23, 2003)

Well, DP is correct in the respect that when I work with athletes on a one on one basis, the nutrition is very personalized as each person has slightly different needs according to age, metabolism, workout schedule, the sport involved, and whether performance enhancing drugs are used. However, in my experience the post workout carb meal is vital even when in a cutting phase...b/c while the goal is to lose bodyfat there is another goal...to keep as much lean tissue as possible. The post workout carb feeding is very important in this respect. Couple this with the fact that your metabolism will be "set up" to store carbs in muscle tissue rather than fat tissue after a hard workout, I feel that post workout meals should have carbs. When cutting I may have the person adjust the TYPE of carb used PW, but they will almost invariably take in carbs.

This is my experience and opinion.


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## P-funk (Jan 23, 2003)

> When cutting I may have the person adjust the TYPE of carb used PW, but they will almost invariably take in carbs.



What type of carbs do you consume post w/o?  What type of carbs do you recommend post w/o?


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## tidalwaverus (Jan 23, 2003)

Glad I just take the pills   and no I'm not going to bite one just to find out.


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## gopro (Jan 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by P-funk *_
> What type of carbs do you consume post w/o?  What type of carbs do you recommend post w/o?



While in a non-dieting phase I will use dextrose as a PW carb source. When shifting into a cutting phase I will switch to white rice, rice cakes, or white potatos. As my contest draws near I will switch to lower GI carbs.


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## lean_n_76er (Jan 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by lean_n_76er *_
> OK, here's a good question for you...  if you are not supposed to drink flax with your post workout shake... and you should take it with your protein before bed time... when should I take mine... I get home from work, work out and then go to bed.  BTW, I work nights, that's why.  Hope you can help.



Can someone PLEASE answer my question???


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## gopro (Jan 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by lean_n_76er *_
> Can someone PLEASE answer my question???



What type of protein are you taking in before bed? Are you taking in any carbs at this time?


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## w8lifter (Jan 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by lean_n_76er *_
> Can someone PLEASE answer my question???




IMO...you should make sure that meal has fat added to it.


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## johnnymac (Jan 24, 2003)

If you dont like the taste take it from a gel cap (1000mg), its hell of alot easier to swallow... Well the pills look like crickets, I feel i'm on fear factor everytime im trying to swallow one.. there huge!  Also buy flax seeds in a bag, just sprinkle them on cereal or in rice etc... Better then drinking 10w30.


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## w8lifter (Jan 24, 2003)

...except that to get the proper amt of flax you need to take 14 caps at once  Not to mention how $$$ that is.


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## Nigeepoo (Jan 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Wow...a flax attack! Flax can be used anytime during the day, except post workout. One to 3 tablespoons per day is good for most. When on a very low carb diet, this stuff is a lifesaver. Either put it in a drink or over rice or just drink it...YOU CAN HANDLE IT...its not that bad, especially when you chase it with  a doughnut...oops, just kidding!
> 
> Udo's Choice is a great oil as it is even better balanced in EFA's than regular flax...but if you don't have access to it, flax will work fine.
> ...


I have to disagree about safflower oil being healthy. Along with sunflower oil, corn oil, soybean oil, peanut oil and cottonseed oil, it has waaaay too much omega-6 PUFA (linoleic acid). As modern meats, fowls & eggs have too much omega-6 compared to omega-3, adding even more omega-6 is inadvisable.

This is why flax oil is beneficial. It's ~59% alpha-linolenic acid. Walnuts are another good source of a-la. Fish oil is rich in eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acids, two other types of omega-3 PUFA's. As a-la has three "cis" C=C bonds, it is very easy to change one or more to a "trans" C=C bond by heating. Trans-fats are most undesirable (except for CLA) and should be avoided like the plague. PUFA's also oxidise very rapidly becoming rancid. Another reason to keep them cool, dark and away from air (don't leave the lid off the bottle).

See below for a comparison of some dietary fats: -







See below for a description of the omega-6 and omega-3 pathways: -





See http://www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/tripping.html


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 25, 2003)

Very nice post! 

My recent research (and I haven't read this yet) is showing a link between PUFA's and hypothyroidism. 


DP


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## Nigeepoo (Jan 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> Very nice post!
> 
> My recent research (and I haven't read this yet) is showing a link between PUFA's and hypothyroidism.
> ...


Hmmm, any *particular* PUFA's?

As I have hypothyroidism due to a knackered pituitary, I'm eating/drinking creamed coconut and coconut milk as it's rich in caprylic, capric and lauric acids, three MCFA's. This increased my FT4 level from 9.8pmol/l to ~15pmol/l *before* I was prescribed thyroxine. 

See http://www.coconut-info.com/mcts.htm
and
http://www.coconut-info.com/hypothyroidism_and_virgin_coconut_oil.htm


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## w8lifter (Jan 25, 2003)

I like him  ...good post


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## gopro (Jan 25, 2003)

Safflower oil is not unhealthy. It may not be one of the very best oils, but it is not unhealty. Finding a balance is the key.


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 25, 2003)

I'm not sayig it's unhealthly....as a matter of fat...err..fact.....we like  the n-6/3 ratio in SF as a perfect compliment to 3/6's in Flax. .....assuming there aren't too many 6's already in your diet 

However I do believe...and please correct me if I'm wrong, most SF oil is refined or partially refined, using both chemicals, higher tempatures and possibly bleaches....as opposed to cold pressed unrefined oils  

DP


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## gopro (Jan 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> I'm not sayig it's unhealthly....as a matter of fat...err..fact.....we like  the n-6/3 ratio in SF as a perfect compliment to 3/6's in Flax. .....assuming there aren't too many 6's already in your diet
> 
> However I do believe...and please correct me if I'm wrong, most SF oil is refined or partially refined, using both chemicals, higher tempatures and possibly bleaches....as opposed to cold pressed unrefined oils
> ...



I believe you are right in that most brands of SF oil is refined or partially so...ruining most of the benefits. There are brands that are unrefined though...no?


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 25, 2003)

I don't think so.....if there is one it would be at florahealth.com 

DP


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## lean_n_76er (Jan 26, 2003)

Thanks for the info W8 - I do take a TBSP of flax with the protein before bed/post w/o.

GP - no, I don't take any carbs w/ post w/o shake.


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## gopro (Jan 27, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by lean_n_76er *_
> Thanks for the info W8 - I do take a TBSP of flax with the protein before bed/post w/o.
> 
> GP - no, I don't take any carbs w/ post w/o shake.



In my opinion you should be getting some carbs in along with the flax. Even though it is right before bed, your body needs those carbs for glycogen storage and to lower cortisol levels. High cortisol will interfere with GH release that you will get during sleep. I would do this whether cutting or bulking.


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 27, 2003)

JMHO....I wouldn't get those carbs unless you are glycogen deplete....they will raise insulin levels and cause faster clearing  (gastric emptying) of the valualbe amino peptides, during the coming fast (sleep).

As for Cortisol.....it normally peaks late afternoon (3 PM)....unless you train in the evening....and is naturally lowest while you sleep.  If need be, take glutamine or BCAA's alone 45 minutes before your bedtime meal.......either will reduce excess cortisol. 

JMHO

DP


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## gopro (Jan 27, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> JMHO....I wouldn't get those carbs unless you are glycogen deplete....they will raise insulin levels and cause faster clearing  (gastric emptying) of the valualbe amino pepetides, during the coming fast (sleep).
> 
> As for Cortisol.....it normally peaks late afternoon (3 PM)....unless you train in the evening....and is naturally lowest while you sleep.  If need be, take glutamine or BCAA's alone 45 minutes before your bedtime meal.......either will reduce excess cortisol.
> ...



I believe he does train at night and then goes to bed. If he trains with any intensity he will be depleting glcycogen and will need to replenish. If he uses medium glycemic carbs and flax then insulin will not rise too quickly and he will still get his carbs. He can also use a whey and casein mix in order to slow the gastric emptying of the aminos.

I am a firm believer that if you do not combine protein with carbs after training (amounts to be adjusted depending on the phase you are in), you will hinder the growth process.

JMHO

GP


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## ectomorph141 (Jan 27, 2003)

I am a hard gainer and just was told to take my flax post w/o.  Should I take it at a different time?


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## gopro (Jan 27, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by ectomorph141 *_
> I am a hard gainer and just was told to take my flax post w/o.  Should I take it at a different time?



I would take it with breakfast, pre workout and before bed.


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## lean_n_76er (Jan 27, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> I believe he does train at night and then goes to bed. If he trains with any intensity he will be depleting glcycogen and will need to replenish. If he uses medium glycemic carbs and flax then insulin will not rise too quickly and he will still get his carbs. He can also use a whey and casein mix in order to slow the gastric emptying of the aminos.
> 
> I am a firm believer that if you do not combine protein with carbs after training (amounts to be adjusted depending on the phase you are in), you will hinder the growth process.
> ...



GP and DP -  I do train before I go to bed, but I work at night from 11:00 pm to 07:30 am.  Go home for a few, then hit the gym.  My post w/o meal is: 50g protein, 10g glutamine and 10g creatine w/ a TBSP of flax.  Does this help or make any difference?


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 28, 2003)

http://ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=14642

DP


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## gopro (Jan 28, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by lean_n_76er *_
> GP and DP -  I do train before I go to bed, but I work at night from 11:00 pm to 07:30 am.  Go home for a few, then hit the gym.  My post w/o meal is: 50g protein, 10g glutamine and 10g creatine w/ a TBSP of flax.  Does this help or make any difference?



Listen, you can choose to listen to DP or listen to me. DP is extremely knowledgable and I have total respect for everything he says. We just differ in opinion on this particular subject.

MY experience and MY research has made me quite insistant on the fact that better overall gains are to be had when carbs are ingested with protein post workout. I make sure to do this after every single workout right up to the last one before a show when my goal is 3-4 % bodyfat. I feel that you should take in at least 50 g of a simple food carb like a white potato or white rice with you shake and supplements.

This is my opinion and my advice. DP I know has his too.


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 28, 2003)

GP....I respect your advice, knowledge and opinion too 

I think there is a distinction between where we are coming from...and although this is a BB board....the distinction is such that you deal w/the "Athletic" side of the public....those fit enough, or desiring to become fit enough to have the metabolism, discipline, and more....to suck down some higher GI carbs and get away w/it!

I deal mostly with an overw8, undiscipline, IR public....and what works for the "athlete"  (such as yourself and perhaps many of your clients, I know you deal w/all types....just imagine reverse populations )  does not work for them (the IR's) as well as what I'm suggesting.  However.....and this is the KEY........what works for them (the 4 out of 5, individuals,  the IR people...and Lean is one, he knows or should know it).......works for the Athlete desiring Optimal fat loss  as well 

JMHO 

DP


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## gopro (Jan 28, 2003)

Absolutely DP. I am speaking from the perspective of those aspiring for maximum performance and/or muscle tissue generation. I will deal with my older and/or more obese or sedentary individuals in a different manner. 

That was good to point out


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## lean_n_76er (Jan 28, 2003)

OK, you got me.  What is IR?  And if I am... what does that mean for me?  Do I have only a few months to live???  LOL.  J/K.  

Seriously though... If I read this correctly, then you both agree that I should NOT carb in my post w/o shake.  Correct?


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## kuso (Jan 28, 2003)

lean...I haven`t read this whole thread, just this last page and a bit. I`m assuming you don`t workout AT home, and there for you take some time between your house and the gym.

IMO....I would take your shake with you to the gym ( I`m guessing you do anyway ) and have it as soon as you finish working out WITH carbs....then have your shower, get changed, go home and I`m again assuming here that you will have spent 30min or so doing these thing.....then maybe down a tin of tuna with a tblsp of flax.

Mixing flax with your creatine will just waste it IMO


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## gopro (Jan 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by lean_n_76er *_
> OK, you got me.  What is IR?  And if I am... what does that mean for me?  Do I have only a few months to live???  LOL.  J/K.
> 
> Seriously though... If I read this correctly, then you both agree that I should NOT carb in my post w/o shake.  Correct?



Well, not really. It depends on your goals. If you are serious about building muscle, than yes, have carbs post workout. DP was explaining that with the general population, that may be overweight and may not wish to really build muscle to any great degree, it may be of benefit for them to forego carbs after a workout. A)Because it probably won't be all that intense, and B)Because their # 1 goal is to lose weight and bodyfat, and for them, post workout carbs may work against that.

I'm pretty sure you are serious about getting bigger and stronger, so therefore I recommend you take in carbs with your protein.


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## w8lifter (Jan 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> DP was explaining that with the general population, that may be overweight and may not wish to really build muscle to any great degree, it may be of benefit for them to forego carbs after a workout. A)Because it probably won't be all that intense, and B)Because their # 1 goal is to lose weight and bodyfat, and for them, post workout carbs may work against that.




Not _quite_ what he was saying.


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## gopro (Jan 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> Not _quite_ what he was saying.



No...please explain it to me!


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## w8lifter (Jan 29, 2003)

Well.......I don't think he was implying that someone who doesn't take carbs post workout is not serious about building muscle. _Your_ opinion is that you must take carbs post workout for gains in muscle....ours is that you do not _need_ to. Building muscle is a function of total calories when it comes right down to it....not necessarily where your carbs are placed.

We differ on that thought (which is okay) and I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong, I just wanted to clarify that since we don't take carbs pwo doesn't mean we aren't seeking added LBM.


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 29, 2003)

also....I was saying that what worked for IR individuals...ALSO worked for EVERYONE!  (but not vice versa) 

No big deal


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## gopro (Jan 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> Well.......I don't think he was implying that someone who doesn't take carbs post workout is not serious about building muscle. _Your_ opinion is that you must take carbs post workout for gains in muscle....ours is that you do not _need_ to. Building muscle is a function of total calories when it comes right down to it....not necessarily where your carbs are placed.
> 
> We differ on that thought (which is okay) and I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong, I just wanted to clarify that since we don't take carbs pwo doesn't mean we aren't seeking added LBM.



Actually, I just reread his post to see where I got it wrong. I'm really not sure exactly what he is saying in some of it. I understand what YOU just said, but I think DP is saying something a little different...just not sure what.

Now, I fervently disagree with you and DP if you feel that post WO carbs are not needed to build muscle OPTIMALLY, but I'd like DP to clarify some points for me...

-If your goal is muscle mass gains first, with bodyfat maintenance, what should you take in post workout?
-If your goal is primarily fat loss first, with muslce maintenance, what should you take in post workout?

I'd like to know your feeling when speaking about a bodybuilder or athlete...


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## gopro (Jan 29, 2003)

Oh, and what does IR stand for?


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## kuso (Jan 29, 2003)

insulin resistant


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## gopro (Jan 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> insulin resistant



Thanks...my brain wasn't even going there.


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 29, 2003)

DP to clarify some points for me...

-If your goal is muscle mass gains first, with bodyfat maintenance, what should you take in post workout?


* Depends on your metabolism and "how" you deal with sugars....it's that simple *


-If your goal is primarily fat loss first, with muslce maintenance, what should you take in post workout?

* Depends on your metabolism and "how" you deal with sugars....it's that simple *

I'd like to know your feeling when speaking about a bodybuilder or athlete... 

* Depends on his/her metabolism and "how" they deal with sugars....it's that simple *

DP


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## w8lifter (Jan 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Actually, I just reread his post to see where I got it wrong. I'm really not sure exactly what he is saying in some of it. I understand what YOU just said, but I think DP is saying something a little different...just not sure what.
> 
> Now, I fervently disagree with you and DP if you feel that post WO carbs are not needed to build muscle OPTIMALLY, but I'd like DP to clarify some points for me...
> ...




That's okay if you fervently disagree w/ us 

We would never make a blanket statement such as if you're goal is to gain then you must take carbs postworkout. Because it really depends not only on goal but individual metabolism, somatotype, IR, and a host of other things.

Some people we would suggest carbs PWO, some not, it all depends on that individual.


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## gopro (Jan 29, 2003)

Another question...how do we know Lean is IR? Do you work with him personally?

Anyway, b/c I had brain freeze and did not realize you were speaking about insulin resistance when using the IR abbreviation, I now understand your previous post.

I think that you and I definitely disagree in regards to the post workout meal whether we are speaking about serious athletes/bodybuilders or even just those trying to stay in shape. I strongly believe that ANYONE that engages in at least somehwhat rigorous weight training workouts on a regular basis, can easily tolerate post workout carbs without adding bodyfat. In fact, I believe that in the long term, BF % will go down. Types and amounts of carbs DO need to be adjusted to the individual.

Now, speaking about clients that I have that are very heavy or obese, and also lift weights, I may break from my normal recommendations until their weight/fat is under control.


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## gopro (Jan 29, 2003)

Well, I'm going to leave it as...we'll agree to disagree.


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Another question...how do we know Lean is IR? Do you work with him personally?



Yes, we did! 

DP

p.s  And before TCD jumps this,,,there are "degrees" of IR, it's not an "All or nothing" deal! 


DP


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## w8lifter (Jan 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Another question...how do we know Lean is IR? Do you work with him personally?



Yes...we have.


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## gopro (Jan 29, 2003)

OK, that explains that!


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## Rob_NC (Jan 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by I Are Baboon *_
> I don't know...gulping down oil seems kind of gross to me.  What's it like?



The stuff I get tastes like you're chewing on a bale of straw.


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## askjoe (Jan 31, 2003)

Put the flaxseed oil in with your protein powder.  You could also include it on your salid and/or pour it over your steak or chicken for added flavor.   There's always something you can do.  

Askjoe



Aakjoe....we will not allow that link.....please note the forums rules.  Otherwise your contributions are welcome here!

DP


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