# Start or finish with deadlifts?



## LoveToLiftBig (Feb 25, 2012)

any recommendations? what do you do?

I've seen alot of people finish there back workout with deadlifts, ie. pros etc, but then you've the arguement of always do the biggest lifts first in a workout

what do you guys think?


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## joboco (Feb 25, 2012)

Deadlifts first in my opinion.


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## bigbenj (Feb 25, 2012)

I usually do them first, when I'm at my strongest, but that's just me.

A good benefit to doing them last is that you're already fatigued, and therefor, you don't need to use as much weight. It will force you to be more strict, also. By the end of the workout, you can make 225 feel like 405.

Same thing with squats, waiting til the end and repping out 225 is much better on the knees than starting off with 405.


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## easymoneymike (Feb 25, 2012)

I've done it both ways and usually prefer it at the end.  Sometimes when I do them first I don't feel my back is warmed up enough yet.  Plus, after going all out on deadlifts I usually don't feel I have as good a stamina through the rest of the workout for all the squeezing you should feel to work the back properly.

It also depends on what you are wanting from the workout too.  If you are wanting to pull for max weight you would want to do them first when you are fresh.  If you want to do them more for reps do them at the end.


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## Gissurjon (Feb 25, 2012)

If you do them after there is the risk of certain muscles being more fatigued than others which could put you at a risk for injury. Especially if you are talking about at the end of  a back workout, your legs will be fresh and ready to push while your lower back might be fatigued.


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## chucky1 (Feb 25, 2012)

I do them at the end, just feels better to me, every thing is warmed up and not worried about hurting my self, I still pull as much at the end as I would in the beginning. jmo


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## jadean (Feb 25, 2012)

chucky1 said:


> I do them at the end, just feels better to me, every thing is warmed up and not worried about hurting my self, I still pull as much at the end as I would in the beginning. jmo



All of this^^^ I don't feel like the various pull ups or rows take anything away from deads at the end of a workout. Now flip the switch and doing deads first always hinders the rest of my back routine.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Feb 25, 2012)

Gissurjon said:


> If you do them after there is the risk of certain muscles being more fatigued than others which could put you at a risk for injury. Especially if you are talking about at the end of  a back workout, your legs will be fresh and ready to push while your lower back might be fatigued.



Great answer.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## Miss Springsteen (Feb 25, 2012)

I do them at the end, so im already gassed out. If i do them first i might be a little to cocky and try to do crazy weight then injure myself


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## LoveToLiftBig (Feb 25, 2012)

Hmm I've always done then first, think I might throw them in last for the next few weeks see how I get on with that. perhaps start with some heavy rows or pull ups. Thanks brahs and brahettes.


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## Gissurjon (Feb 25, 2012)

Miss Springsteen said:


> I do them at the end, so im already gassed out. If i do them first i might be a little to cocky and try to do crazy weight then injure myself



Just remember, and this coming from a guy who was diagnosed with 5 herniating disks, it only takes one time where your lower back muscles decide they don't want to work hard for just a split second, for you to wreck your back. I will most likely never perform a back squat again in my life since surgery is out of the question once your whole lumbar area has either ruptured or is severely herniating.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Feb 26, 2012)

Miss Springsteen said:


> I do them at the end, so im already gassed out. If i do them first i might be a little to cocky and try to do crazy weight then injure myself



Doing at the end when you are "gassed out" make no sense.  

When are you most likely do you perform you best and are least likely to injury youself? 

1) When you are "gassed out"? 

2) When you are fresh and aleart?

You're not going to do any "crazy weight" if you do them first. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Feb 26, 2012)

chucky1 said:


> I do them at the end, just feels better to me, every thing is warmed up and not worried about hurting my self, I still pull as much at the end as I would in the beginning. jmo



You're not pulling as much if you put them at the end of the workout as you would if they were the first exercise you perform.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Feb 26, 2012)

jadean said:


> All of this^^^ I don't feel like the various pull ups or rows take anything away from deads at the end of a workout. Now flip the switch and doing deads first always hinders the rest of my back routine.



Think about what you just stated, "...doing deads first always hinders the rest of my back routine."  

*Money Exercises*

Deadlifts are one of the money exercises.  They pay off with huge dividends.  They create an anabolic cascade, moreso than pullups and rows.  

*Fixing The Problem*

High intensity deadlifts definitely take it out of you.  One solution is to have a Lower Back day (erectors/hamstrings/glutes) and a Upper Back Day.  

Either that or take about a 10-15 minute beak after deadlifts, then perform your upper back exercises.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Feb 26, 2012)

bigbenj said:


> By the end of the workout, you can make 225 feel like 405.



NO, 225 is never going to feel like 405 under any condition.  

And the results of using 405 is going to be a lot different than 225.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## strongrunbox (Feb 26, 2012)

My back workout:

Deadlift
DB Rows
Wide Gripped Pull-ups


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## Miss Springsteen (Feb 26, 2012)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> Doing at the end when you are "gassed out" make no sense.
> 
> When are you most likely do you perform you best and are least likely to injury youself?
> 
> ...


 
Just saying what works for me, doing them in the beginning takes alot out of me and i dont have much energy left to do my best on other exercises. Ask 15 people you'll get 15 different opinions. Doesnt mean i'm right, doesnt mean you're right. Just my opinion

Miss Springsteen


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## hypo_glycemic (Feb 26, 2012)

I do all my dead lifts last. For me, it's good to pre- exhaust  the back first so I don't have to go heavy and can really get a good squeeze in the lumbar area with lighter weight. I just started doing them on the smith with 315 for reps.


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## ShreddedOatz (Feb 26, 2012)

whatever works the best for "you" is what you should do....done them before and after. Usually like to warm up with some hyperextensions and a couple light sets of hamstring curls before I DL, works for me.


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## chesty4 (Feb 26, 2012)

I'll switch it up to keep my body guessing. I adjust the weights accoringly.


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## MDR (Feb 26, 2012)

On a deadlift day, I always start w/the deadlift.  It's the most important exercise I'll perform that day, so it only makes sense to do it first.  Same with bench days or squat days.


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## ckcrown84 (Feb 26, 2012)

^^^ Agreed


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## Imortalee (Feb 26, 2012)

Start with it first, feeling fresh so that if I want to try for heavier lifts, I'm not fatigued.


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## deadlifter405 (Feb 26, 2012)

Always start with deadlifts, just have to be sure to thoroughly warm up and increment up to maximum poundages.  This works out best for me.  If I do them at the end I simply can't pull as much weight as I'm already fatigued.


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## pebble (Feb 26, 2012)

LoveToLiftBig said:


> any recommendations? what do you do?
> 
> I've seen alot of people finish there back workout with deadlifts, ie. pros etc, but then you've the arguement of always do the biggest lifts first in a workout
> 
> what do you guys think?



Try doing them with legs.  It makes more sense seeing as the primary movers (concentric/eccentric contraction) are glutes/hamstrings/quads. The Back (erector spinae, rhomboids, lats...) is (are) only used to stabilize (isometric contraction) the spine just like any other upright exercise.

As for your question, do them early in the session.  They are technical lift and your body should be fresh for them to avoid injury.


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## fufu (Feb 26, 2012)

Start start start.

Start.

The hardest and most technically important lifts need to go first. Why? Because they are hard and technical, you need to be fresh for that. 

The risk of injury with deadlifting is greater due to the multi-joint total body nature of the lift, plus the fact that the deadlift usually involves a lot of weight compared to other lifts. As a society that that sits way too much, we are making ourselves predisposed to discogenic patholoy (weakened discs available to bulges or ruptures). A great way to exploit that disc injury susceptibility is to deadlift with poor form. 

Even if you don't get hurt with iffy form, you really want to be hammering proper deadlift form. You need fresh muscles to do that. If you deadlift with iffy form consisently, you are developing faulty motor patterns that may eventually lead to injury once you use heavier weight.

Start with the deadlift.

The deadlift is such a beneficial lift for strength. If your goal is strength, you really need to be doing them first. If you feel you can still pull the same after training other back exercises, you aren't deadlifting well and/or you aren't really pushing yourself to pull maximal weights. The lats play a huge roll in the deadlift. Rowing or chin upping before hand is going to effect your pull.

I wouldn't even do deadlifts on a back day in the first place, as it is in a most functional sense a _lower body lift_. Of course it is really a total body lift, but it is significantly more lower than upper. In terms of how training days are split up, it is going to belong on a lower day most of the time.

I never get the whole deadlift for an upper body day. The upper body muscles are working, for the most part, isometrically. The concentric and eccetric actions are invovled in lower body/hip musculature. The acceleration and decelleration is coming from there. The glutes and hamstrings are the prime movers. It is simple kinesiology.


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## Gissurjon (Feb 26, 2012)

chesty4 said:


> I'll switch it up to keep my body guessing. I adjust the weights accoringly.



aaah yes, "muscle confusion" right? You know that when you simply add weight you are also "keeping the body guessing", whatever that means.

When it comes to technique, learning and implementing it, I don't think keeping your body guessing is cool at all.


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## chucky1 (Feb 26, 2012)

still doing them last cuz that what i like to do.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Feb 27, 2012)

Miss Springsteen said:


> Just saying what works for me, doing them in the beginning takes alot out of me and i dont have much energy left to do my best on other exercises. Ask 15 people you'll get 15 different opinions. Doesnt mean i'm right, doesnt mean you're right. Just my opinion
> 
> Miss Springsteen



If you do your other exercise first, it takes away from your deadlift.  

As I noted, the deadlift is one of the "Money" exercises.  Again, that means it provide you with a greater return on your investment.  

That is one of the primariy reasons that programs are written around performing compound movement with the large muscle first.

Asking 15 People

It depends on the knowledge base of those 15 people.  Those is the know will tell you to work the compound movements first. 

Nice use of color. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Feb 27, 2012)

fufu said:


> Start start start.
> 
> Start.
> 
> ...



Great explaination!  

Kenny Croxdale


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## squigader (Feb 27, 2012)

fufu said:


> Start start start.
> 
> Start.
> 
> ...



I was going to say something, and then I saw this.

THIS.

Seriously, no one else needs to post.


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## Filessika (Feb 29, 2012)

Starting with it feeling better.


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