# "She has sacrificed her look as a woman." Lenda Murray quote re Iris Kyle



## Curt James (Nov 12, 2011)

"As far as advice on the physique side, I  would tell her to stop competing in both the International and the  Olympia. *She has sacrificed her look as a woman.* The men can afford to  do all that it takes to compete in a variety of shows each year. As  women, our approach should be different. As Ms. Olympia, you have a  responsibility to all the women of the sport. You are our  representative, whether you like it or not. You are held to a different  standard, whether you like it or not. Yes, winning titles is important  and I clearly understand that. At the end of the day, when you can go  toe-to-toe with Dexter Jackson, something's wrong."
???Lenda Murray

That quote was from an interview that appeared in the January 2011 issue of Muscular Development magazine.











How would you explain Murray's perspective or how does she believe she differs in appearance from what Iris has accomplished? I don't understand what Iris has "sacrificed" relative to Lenda. Both look like muscular women to me. What has Iris sacrificed?


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## Ezskanken (Nov 12, 2011)

Honestly I don't know who Murray is, but it seems like jealousy.  Iris is not competing in figure or bikini, she's going for Ms. O!  Thats the top of the food chain if you ask me for women dedicated to the sport.  Life styles cannot be compared between them, and one will do all she/he can to achieve their dreams.

I hope me not knowing who this Murray lady is doesn't make a complete ass out of my comment


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## sassy69 (Nov 12, 2011)

Lenda was the Iris of the 90s. If you covered their faces I think you'd be hard pressed to pick one as "more feminine" than the others. I love both their looks. Women's BB is loaded w/ disparaging comments on "femininity" - its all relative. There are people who think Jamie Eason is too jacked. Lots of people frankly. But then no one seems to bother commenting about the 30% of fat people in the US, many of the women looking more androgenous than any FBBs. Also noting that anyone who is dieted down enough is going to look "jacked". That look is often mistaken for "roided out" by the ignorant.  There are people who just wear it better than others. 

I've don't think I've ever met Lenda --- trying to remember as I've been attending the Arnold &/or the Olympia for most years since 2000. I've meet Vicky Gates and Laura Creavelle and know a number of the current / recently crowned pros. Many amazing women. I've met Iris a number of times and I just think she is the image of perfection. Her genetics are like those of a Triple Crown race horse. Personally I think her aesthetic beats out the best looking guys on the circuit (and I"m not talking about mass - I'm talking about the sheer aesthetic of a muscled physique).  There are some women who do look harsh w/ dry as fuck skin and massively receding hairlines. Iris isn't one of them. 

I dunno what it gains in dumping on the current pros. Women's BB is constantly under fire for people's perception of what is "feminine" - we've seen that definition be skewed by what is actually rewarded over the years in FBB & Figure. Bikini has its own issues viable and useful judging criteria so I'm not going to lump that in - but I also expect the same inconsistency and trends to affect the new Women's Physique category.

It is what it is. This is a "sport" that is debatable even as a "sport" and judged by subjective & political-driven standards.  It is what it is. I think the quality of it is driven by the quality of the individuals - there are shitty people and stellar people in the sport.  I take it for what its worth and look to myself for the challenge and the accomplishment, and thank God I have a day job


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## KILLEROFSAINTS (Nov 12, 2011)

Ezskanken said:


> Honestly I don't know who Murray is, but it seems like jealousy. Iris is not competing in figure or bikini, she's going for Ms. O! Thats the top of the food chain if you ask me for women dedicated to the sport. Life styles cannot be compared between them, and one will do all she/he can to achieve their dreams.
> 
> I hope me not knowing who this Murray lady is doesn't make a complete ass out of my comment


 

it does


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## Little Wing (Nov 12, 2011)

no more than any fat ass cow sitting on the couch eating cheetoes. it's her life and she looks female to me. it's not what i'd want to look like but it's better and hotter than lard ass or anorexic stick woman. i see a genuine smile on her face that crinkles up her eyes like a happy little girl. leave her be.


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## 2B1 (Nov 12, 2011)

Lenda's jealous.  Iris is purdy.


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## Curt James (Nov 12, 2011)

Ezskanken said:


> Honestly I don't know who Murray is, but it seems like jealousy.  Iris is not competing in figure or bikini, she's going for Ms. O!  Thats the top of the food chain if you ask me for women dedicated to the sport.  Life styles cannot be compared between them, and one will do all she/he can to achieve their dreams.
> 
> *I hope me not knowing who this Murray lady is doesn't make a complete ass out of my comment*



Thanks for participating in the thread. Your post doesn't make a complete *** of you _or your comment_, however it _does _beg the question, "How old are you?"

Lenda Murray is an eight-time Ms. Olympia. Her -- what I'd call disparaging and disrespectful -- comment re Iris Kyle seemed completely bewildering considering the fact that Murray has a physique that nearly matches Iris' own. 

With the exception of calves (Iris crushes Lenda here) and conditioning (I'd argue), Murray's comments, if considered fact, apply to herself as well. 
*
Lenda Murray's Competitive Record*

1989
Junior Nationals - NPC, HeavyWeight, 1st
Junior Nationals - NPC,  Overall Winner 
North American Championships - IFBB, HeavyWeight, 1st
North American Championships - IFBB,  Overall Winner 

 1990
Olympia - IFBB,  Winner 

 1991
Olympia - IFBB,  Winner 

 1992
Olympia - IFBB,  Winner 

 1993
Olympia - IFBB,  Winner 

 1994
Olympia - IFBB,  Winner 

 1995
Olympia - IFBB,  Winner 

 1996
Olympia - IFBB, 2nd

 1997
Olympia - IFBB, 2nd

 2002
Olympia - IFBB, HeavyWeight, 1st
Olympia - IFBB,  Overall Winner 

 2003
Olympia - IFBB,  Overall Winner 
Olympia - IFBB, HeavyWeight, 1st

 2004
Olympia - IFBB, HeavyWeight, 2nd





Lenda Murray


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## Curt James (Nov 12, 2011)

sassy69 said:


> Lenda was the Iris of the 90s. If you covered their faces I think you'd be hard pressed to pick one as "more feminine" than the others. I love both their looks. Women's BB is loaded w/ disparaging comments on "femininity" - its all relative. There are people who think Jamie Eason is too jacked. Lots of people frankly. But then no one seems to bother commenting about the 30% of fat people in the US, many of the women looking more androgenous than any FBBs. Also noting that anyone who is dieted down enough is going to look "jacked". That look is often mistaken for "roided out" by the ignorant.  There are people who just wear it better than others.
> 
> *I've don't think I've ever met Lenda --- trying to remember as I've been attending the Arnold &/or the Olympia for most years since 2000. *(snip)



Met Lenda at one of the early Arnold Classics. Asked for a snapshot and she _melted _into my side while a fellow fan snapped the photo for me. lol If I ever felt like a "schmoe," it was at that moment with Ms. O glued to me for those seconds.  

Was especially disappointed after reading that article and Lenda's quote regarding Iris.

It's about respect and a person's choice to build their physique in the manner they so choose. If you're a competitor and are trying to model or mold your physique to please a judging panel, well, that must be the saddest circumstance in the world.

Would you drive a car around that someone else chose the color, the rims, the make or model? So why would you choose anything but _your own ideal_ for something as personal as your body?


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## Little Wing (Nov 12, 2011)

i assumed wrongly that the person being ridiculed was on the left because the woman on the right appears more feminine. is the woman to the left the one ridiculing her?


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## Little Wing (Nov 12, 2011)

you would think they would applaud and support each other not cat fight.


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## Little Wing (Nov 12, 2011)




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## Little Wing (Nov 12, 2011)




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## 2B1 (Nov 12, 2011)

Little Wing said:


>




Me-Ow.


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## Curt James (Nov 12, 2011)

Little Wing said:


> i assumed wrongly that the person being ridiculed was on the left because the woman on the right appears more feminine. *is the woman to the left the one ridiculing her?*


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## Curt James (Nov 12, 2011)

Little Wing said:


> you would think they would applaud and support each other not cat fight.



Believe there is a very real _cat fight component_ in their relationship. Iris is the heir apparent and—unless the federation eliminates FBB entirely—should, by all rights, eclipse Lenda's reign as winningest Ms. Olympia.

*Lenda:*





YouTube Video















YouTube Video










*Iris:*





YouTube Video















YouTube Video


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## Little Wing (Nov 12, 2011)

ok so her face is more feminine but that can be said of two beached whales or anorexics. the bodies look just about identical as far as i can see. i suck at multi tasking. thanks for the clarification curt and yes the crinkly eyed lady on the left looks HAPPY.


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## Little Wing (Nov 12, 2011)

and someone needs to tell Lenda that poor sportsWOmanship is ugly no matter how pretty your face is. so there


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## Curt James (Nov 12, 2011)

^^^^ Agreed. Not sure what Lenda's motivation was, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's politics as well as spite involved. 





YouTube Video















YouTube Video


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## RonsterM (Nov 13, 2011)

She looks hot in some of those pics


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## Ezskanken (Nov 13, 2011)

Curt I'm 28.  Honestly I don't know much or nothing at all about the female side of BBing...I do however appreciate what it takes to get to where they are when it's show time, when it is time to reveal all of their blood, sweat, and tears, and wearing that smile that couldn't be any more prouder at that moment in time.  But I do think women who look like that are attractive!

KOS, you make me laugh, take it ez...


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## anxious1 (Nov 13, 2011)

sassy69 said:


> Lenda was the Iris of the 90s. If you covered their faces I think you'd be hard pressed to pick one as "more feminine" than the others. I love both their looks. Women's BB is loaded w/ disparaging comments on "femininity" - its all relative. There are people who think Jamie Eason is too jacked. Lots of people frankly. But then no one seems to bother commenting about the 30% of fat people in the US, many of the women looking more androgenous than any FBBs. Also noting that anyone who is dieted down enough is going to look "jacked". That look is often mistaken for "roided out" by the ignorant.  There are people who just wear it better than others.
> 
> I've don't think I've ever met Lenda --- trying to remember as I've been attending the Arnold &/or the Olympia for most years since 2000. I've meet Vicky Gates and Laura Creavelle and know a number of the current / recently crowned pros. Many amazing women. I've met Iris a number of times and I just think she is the image of perfection. Her genetics are like those of a Triple Crown race horse. Personally I think her aesthetic beats out the best looking guys on the circuit (and I"m not talking about mass - I'm talking about the sheer aesthetic of a muscled physique).  There are some women who do look harsh w/ dry as fuck skin and massively receding hairlines. Iris isn't one of them.
> 
> ...



I'll help you out Sassy: 
I LOVE my wife lean, and stage ready! Would never sleep with a 30%BF woman. 
My wife gets comments all the time by women as to why she is so gross. Yet they failed to look in the mirror prior to approaching her. 

They are the issue that gets neglected, not women's femininity, or how sexy Sassy or my wife are.


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## sassy69 (Nov 13, 2011)

When you're lean, your face looks like that. My own experience - I've been training in the same gym at the same time of day for the last 4 yrs. For the most part I have a group of friends (mostly guys) who I hang out w/ but don't directly train with. I generally don't get any comments when I'm off-season, but when I get to within 4 weeks of my competition date, let me tell you about the attention I get. Weirdly, particularly from guys in their 20s. I'm 46. I also get a lot of questions from the girls who I don't normally talk to, who all say "I want to look like you, just not as big."

Another example of perception - I was out at a club w/ some friends (who don't compete) in Vegas on Olympia weekend last year - 1 week out from my own competition. Sure, being out all night didn't really help me in terms of how bloated & tired I looked the next day, but it was one of those MUST DO nights. But anyway, we were out at this club and I got ALOT of attention from the guys at the club, but MUCH MORE from the women. Every time I got off the dancefloor I had more of them stop me and start asking diet & training question than you would believe.

The thing is that the look is DIFFERENT. Because the mainstream is pretty much uninformed and FAT is the norm, they all assume it must be roids because they all have no idea how to get their bodyfat below 25 % cuz they can't fathom the idea of giving up liquor and snacks and stick to regular training & cardio, and view their goals in terms of I MUST LOSE 20 lb BY NEXT WEEK! In other words, its not a lifestyle for them, so its completely foreign. Therefore it must be ok to make comments about. Its not polite to make comments about chubby people, but the minute you're in shape, you're judged against the measuring stick of "the hottest model you ever saw in a magazine". Which is fine, except the goals are completely different. BB is a visual sport, so it is judged subjectively and on criteria that is completely different for different people in terms of what they find attractive, even "attractive" is not really the criteria of judging. Aesthetic, yes, "attractive", or more specifically "fuckable" is really what drives people's perception of women.

The difference between Iris & Lenda, personally I think is more in their natural facial features. I kinda view Lenda as more of a model face while Iris is more of an athlete face. The context is sort of like Hope Solo, the US Women's Olympic Soccer team goalie who has been competing on Dancing w/ the Stars. She looks wonderfully athletic, and then they dress her up like a dancer. She hits as not a model but rather an athlete dressed up - she still looks great but not w/ the same 'ease' of looking great as someone like Nicole Sherzinger. 

Outside of that, again, if you cover up their faces, IMO they look about on par w/ Iris' physique probably being the more 'perfect' across the board.


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## MDR (Nov 13, 2011)

sassy69 said:


> When you're lean, your face looks like that. My own experience - I've been training in the same gym at the same time of day for the last 4 yrs. For the most part I have a group of friends (mostly guys) who I hang out w/ but don't directly train with. I generally don't get any comments when I'm off-season, but when I get to within 4 weeks of my competition date, let me tell you about the attention I get. Weirdly, particularly from guys in their 20s. I'm 46. I also get a lot of questions from the girls who I don't normally talk to, who all say "I want to look like you, just not as big."
> 
> Another example of perception - I was out at a club w/ some friends (who don't compete) in Vegas on Olympia weekend last year - 1 week out from my own competition. Sure, being out all night didn't really help me in terms of how bloated & tired I looked the next day, but it was one of those MUST DO nights. But anyway, we were out at this club and I got ALOT of attention from the guys at the club, but MUCH MORE from the women. Every time I got off the dancefloor I had more of them stop me and start asking diet & training question than you would believe.
> 
> ...


 
I agree about the similarity of their respective physiques, with Iris being the newest big thing and probably surpassing Lynda just a bit as far as her overall development. Personally, I think both women are exceptional athletes and very beautiful women in their own way, and each had their own era. I guess my hope would be to see Lynda support Iris and the development of the sport, and the fact that it is her time now.  Kinda sad to see the snippy comments about someone who so obviously has spent years in pursuit of similar goals and aspirations you have devoted your life to pursuing. Both women are great champions, and will go down in history as two of the greatest female bodybuilders who ever lived.


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## Pony (Nov 14, 2011)

Im not sure Lynda has the right to say anyone has sacrificed her look as a woman, maybe her gym doesnt have the floor to ceiling mirrors mine does.  That being said, I dont think being muscular sacrifices femininity (look at Sassy!), I just think if you're going to be petty and small, you better not be a hypocrite.


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## juggernaut (Nov 14, 2011)

This is nonsense. Bring back the Anja Langer look.


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## sassy69 (Nov 14, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> This is nonsense. Bring back the Anja Langer look.



I think that's the plan.... just not in BB. Look for Physique at the Pro level to promote that look.


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## KILLEROFSAINTS (Nov 14, 2011)

lenda is and was sexy....kyle not so much


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## Erinn (Nov 15, 2011)

*Newbie here but..*

props for the hard work


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## juggernaut (Nov 15, 2011)

sassy69 said:


> I think that's the plan.... just not in BB. Look for Physique at the Pro level to promote that look.


I love that look. IMO, it can save the feminine side of bbing. I feel that it has gone in an insane direction that is just plain ass ugly.


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## sassy69 (Nov 15, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> I love that look. IMO, it can save the feminine side of bbing. I feel that it has gone in an insane direction that is just plain ass ugly.



Well to be fair, it is bodybuilding not fuckability. And while we're at it is there some reason that its ok to reward growth gut in the guys? Jay's got one of the blockiest shapes up there and he's a repeat Mr O.

IMO competitors respond to what the judges reward. If they reward the extreme, they promote the extreme.


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## juggernaut (Nov 15, 2011)

sassy69 said:


> Well to be fair, it is bodybuilding not fuckability. And while we're at it is there some reason that its ok to reward growth gut in the guys? Jay's got one of the blockiest shapes up there and he's a repeat Mr O.
> 
> IMO competitors respond to what the judges reward. If they reward the extreme, they promote the extreme.



Agree 100% with the fuckability issue, however there comes a point where a chick shouldnt look like a dude. Some of these women are seriously outrageous, and I dont mean that in a good way. 
As for Jay being an O winner-that's just retarded. I never liked his or Ronnie's block gut. Victor Martinez and Phil Heath are much better competitors in that aspect. Truth be told, I'm a fan to the 80s and 90s physiques, and the same with women.


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## Curt James (Nov 15, 2011)

sassy69 said:


> Well to be fair, it is bodybuilding not fuckability. And while we're at it is there some reason that its ok to reward growth gut in the guys? Jay's got one of the blockiest shapes up there and he's a repeat Mr O.
> 
> IMO *competitors respond to what the judges reward. If they reward the extreme, they promote the extreme.*



I'd argue that's more fact than opinion. The idea that "Well, we tried to promote the 20% less muscularity concept but it failed" is *total BS.
*
Interview with IFBB Judges - YouTube

What, the athletes dictate who the winner will be, where the judges place them? No.

They reward the extreme and in so doing _promote _the extreme.


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## furaskin (Aug 3, 2012)

Ezskanken said:


> Honestly I don't know who Murray is, but it seems like jealousy.  Iris is not competing in figure or bikini, she's going for Ms. O!  Thats the top of the food chain if you ask me for women dedicated to the sport.  Life styles cannot be compared between them, and one will do all she/he can to achieve their dreams.
> 
> 
> I think both ruined their femminility, and both wear a wig cause totally BALD...Look Iris at MS Olympia 2005-2006: had a strong reeciding hairline and Lenda too at Ms O. 2003.


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## Nightowl (Aug 3, 2012)

Props up for both of these beautiful women.  They're showing the world it is a sport and pledge in life!  This poll to me is not essential,but they in the bbing world ARE!


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## StrengthAddicts (Aug 5, 2012)

Lenda is just mad b/c Iris is going to break her record. Case closed.
It's just like in 2006, Lee Haney was prolly thinking "THANK YOU JESUS," when Ronnie didn't get #9. lol


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## njc (Aug 6, 2012)

What are some of the best male pro bodybuilders without an enormously distended abdomen?  Im not very knowledgeable on the matters concerning various IFBB pros but I know 5 or 6 names and they all seem to have huge guts.  When I look at my old weider and schwarzenegger encyclopedias.........thats when I see truly impressive physiques to be envied.  Its unfortunate that they do not look like that anymore.  As Sassy has eluded to my post here comes back around to that subjectivity thing, but for me, subjectively speaking, Cutler and Coleman look terrible.  They are truly impressive physiques in my eyes, but impressive for the wrong reason.  I enjoy watching them on stage and marvel at how any man could build so much muscle, but I do not think it looks particularly good.  Thats just me; but Im willing to guess Im in the majority.


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## NVRBDR (Aug 6, 2012)

well if that ain't the pot being called black by the kettle herself, I don't know what is/.


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## sassy69 (Aug 6, 2012)

They're both beautiful women IMO, but w/ their size, if you did a rear shot and covered the hair, I think you'd be hard pressed to differentiate between a pretty decent guy and a female. Just sayin'. Not worth spending time on their faces - Everyone wears the "diet face" differently, but I've seen so much worse that I can't imagine calling it out for either of these ladies.


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## ashoprep1 (Aug 7, 2012)

she looks beautiful


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## andyrodgers (Aug 25, 2012)

thanks for sharing all stuff, really cool kind of information


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