# Is a bowflex at all worthwhile?



## Autarch (Aug 16, 2004)

Does anybody here think that a bowflex machine is worth buying at all?

 I am not going to become a bodybuilder but I do want to put on a lot of muscle and I will never have a spotter. Do you all think that bowflex machines or anything similar (cable machines?) are worth buying for the home?

 I don't have time for a Gym and I can't ever do heavy bench presses because I don't have a spotter. Do you think it's a worthwhile purchase?


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## david672 (Aug 16, 2004)

Oh boy, get ready to get beat up for thinking about buying one.

  The typical response will be:

  - no, join a gym
  - no, buy free weights
  - no, you will never achieve the results you want
  - no, it's too expensive
 - no, unless you live in a small cabin at the top of Mt. Everest where you have no space and cannot access a gym.

 I think the best response is see if you know anyone that has a Bowflex and try it for yourself for a week. Also, you may want to look at the Schwinn Comp which uses Bowflex technology and save yourself a lot of money.

 I currently use the Schwinn Comp and love it, but I went to the store at least 5-6 times over a two week period later in the evening and messed with it for at least 20-30 minutes to see if I felt I could get a good workout and achieve the results I wanted.

 The Schwinn is $800, but they were having a 50% off sale and then another $100 off seeing that I took the floor model. So at least for me I could not go wrong for $300.

  Try it and decide for yourself, and use others opinions for what they are worth.


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## Arnold (Aug 16, 2004)

Autarch said:
			
		

> Does anybody here think that a bowflex machine is worth buying at all?



For one purpose, if you live in a small cabin at the top of Mt. Everest where you have no space and cannot access a gym.


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## Mudge (Aug 16, 2004)

You can always use dumbells.

You can get a decent workout in 30 minutes at a gym, even 20 if you do some type of circuit training or very low rest periods. If the driving time though is a concern then buy some dumbells and a bench.


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## pumpchaser (Aug 16, 2004)

Bowflex owner, previously all-weights n' pulleys 24-7 for decades. Bowflex IMO is great. I say that having developed a preference some years ago for pulleys instead of free weights - more rigorous, better burn and stimulation of the tissue, IMO. The Bowflex basically feels like pulleys and is intense. The only other Bow-type machine I like is the Comp by Schwinn, which is owned by Bowflex. The knock-offs are cheap.

The other thing I'd recommend if you have a little more space is multistation leverage gyms made by Body Solid and Powertec. The Body Solid version's is a little better quality and has a lifetime warranty, but they're both good. What I like about leverage is that it retains most of the feel of weights, but is more intense, which is why they're so popular with bodybuilders now. The tension's continuous like pulleys, but on a curve. 

IMO both provide a better workout than weights. The other considerable advantage of both is that you can max. out without a spotter!

Now, I realize that many pin heads will immediately dismiss anything other than free weights, but as I've said, been there, done that, and I like Bowflex and leverage machines better. The easiest thing (and most boring) is to remain firmly in-the-box and criticize anything new. As far as being only for fitness and not bodybuilding, it's all about resistance and continually increasing the load on the muscle in either case.

http://www.bodysolid.com/BSStrength/FreeweightSystems/SBL460/SBL460.html

http://products.consumerguide.com/cp/family/review/index.cfm/id/25086

Thread on Body Solid/Powertec comparisons:

http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=80591609&map=0&page=2&lang=en


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## Vital Signs (Aug 16, 2004)

A friend of mine has a bowflex, and a couple of months ago I dropped by and did an hour workout on it,... although I'm not too sure I would call it a workout!    

If you have no intentions of becoming a body builder, then I guess a bowflex is better than nothing.  But don't expect to gain anything dramatic from it.  You can purchase a very good weight bench and a sh*tload of weights for far less than a bowflop, and your body will look a helluva lot better ... and you'll be a helluva lot stronger!


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## Mudge (Aug 16, 2004)

Generally speaking I hate pulleys and cables, they are not anywhere near the basis of my routine. Once you take price into consideration, there is no way the system would be attractive to me.

If you are looking for general fitness I'd still vote for a simple bench and some dumbells with weights.


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## david672 (Aug 16, 2004)

*Well said!*

Pumpchaser...your response was very diplomatic and well said!

 I think in the end *people should use what works best for them*, but more importantly the user *REALLY* needs to decide what their goals are before making a purchase.

 For me I would NEVER want to be anywere as big as some of the people here, that is just not my thing and personally I don't think it looks very good. I do however applaud them for having the *dedication* and *will power* it takes to achieve those results, it surely does not happen overnight.


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## david672 (Aug 16, 2004)

Vital Signs said:
			
		

> A friend of mine has a bowflex, and a couple of months ago I dropped by and did an hour workout on it,... although I'm not too sure I would call it a workout!


 I was obviously not there and only you have all the facts, but I kind of find it hard to believe that you were not able to get a good workout, maybe not freaking awesome, but at least good.

 The Bowflex can go up to 410lbs, and let's just say for the sake of arguments that it is not really 410lbs, let's say it's 300lbs, that is still 150lbs on each pulley which is quite a bit.

 Taking those numbers into account, I would find it hard to believe even the "bigger" guys would find it challenging to do 150lb arm curls or 300lb bench presses or as close as you can come to them on a Bowflex.


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## Duncans Donuts (Aug 16, 2004)

How would you do squats on a bowflex?  Deadlifts?  I'm not sure, but I think it'd be tough - especially if the maximum resistance were 410 pounds, which is just not a good limitation to have if you're intent on continuing your progress.

That being said, a muscle doesn't know if it's contracting against a bucket of sand, a weight, or a pulley hooked up to a bar.  Resistance is resistance.  The only problem I would see, as I said, is the limitations as far as weight and exercises performed.


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## BoneCrusher (Aug 16, 2004)

This is the part where the entire muscle group gets brought up ...


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## iMan323 (Aug 16, 2004)

I would get a squat rack with adjustable safety rails and a lat pull-down attachment, and an olympic barbell and plates. Add an adjustable bench to that and you're all set. If I had all that shit, I wouldn't show up at the gym at all   My $0.02


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## pumpchaser (Aug 16, 2004)

No problem doing squats, benches or deadlifts using the floor pulleys on the Bow. Maybe weights would feel better to some, for me it's the reverse. No need for a squat rack, you start the motion from close to the botton. The resistance is close to weights pound for pound.

I think you can definitely gain size on this and use it for bodybuilding; my bi's are poppin' from the burn on this.


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## Saturday Fever (Aug 16, 2004)

> Resistance is resistance.





Best statement in the thread.


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## P-funk (Aug 16, 2004)

> That being said, a muscle doesn't know if it's contracting against a bucket of sand, a weight, or a pulley hooked up to a bar. Resistance is resistance. The only problem I would see, as I said, is the limitations as far as weight and exercises performed.



Right, resistance is resistance and a muscle contracts without knowing what it is pushing or pulling against.  However, biomechanically speaking it does know this in relation to force curves.  If you are doing a bench press with dumbells you bring the dumbells down and then on the concentric you press agains the weight.  the force curve starts low and then goes up and then at lock out it goes down again as less force will be needed right at lockout to move the weight.  If you are on a cable press however the resistance has changed due to the fact that instaed of working against gravity like with the dumbells, lying on your back (gravity working against the weight in your hand), gravity is now avting on the stack of weights.  What makes the cables different is that when pressing from start to finishthe force curve starts low and then it goes up and stays up all the way to lock out, providing you with continuous resistance throughout the movement.  On the old nautlius machines the force curve was straight.  On Hammer strength machines, actually mostly just the chest presses, the force curve starts out low and then goes up and keeps going up.  So at the top of the movement the force is the greatest.  That is why hammer strength is so different to anything else.  So, resistance is resistance but biomechanically things are not even.


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## pumpchaser (Aug 16, 2004)

Absolutely I touched on the differences in the curves, and have yet to see better than what is found on well-designed leverage machines. Joe Gold died a couple of weeks ago, and the devices he put into the first Gold's-pulleys, T-bars, levers, etc. were considered unusual, but guess what: they're standard equipment everywhere now, as leverage is becoming ubiquitous. 

Personally and as mentioned, I think leverage machines if well designed are superior to weights, and I prefer the curves on levers, pulleys and the Bow. That's my informed opinion after 30 years of lifting. This is the future IMO, and we'll see better and better devices. From my limited knowledge of Hammer, I believe they're the dominant player in leverage along with Flex Leverage.


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## Vital Signs (Aug 16, 2004)

> I was obviously not there and only you have all the facts, but I kind of find it hard to believe that you were not able to get a good workout, maybe not freaking awesome, but at least good.


I'm just being a smart-ass!  It was a good workout,... not freaking awsome, but good!

I only did an upper body workout, and though I could tell the direct muscles were hit, the stabilizer muscles were practically untouched.  After 1 hour I fealt pretty good, but nothing remotely like a solid hour of pounding iron,... I wasn't fatigued in the least!

But like you said, "the user REALLY needs to decide what their goals are before making a purchase."  I'm in my mid 40s and obviously have no intentions of competing,... I just prefer free weights and love the feeling after blasting iron for an hour or so.  But still, a decent weight bench and a good amount of weights will give you even more than a bowflex at a fraction of the cost.


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## Duncans Donuts (Aug 16, 2004)

Continuous resistance through the entire range of motion is essential.  A lot of machines (curl machines) at my brothers gym offer huge resistance during the contraction, but when you are fully flexed, there's virtually none.  Seems like a design flaw.


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## pumpchaser (Aug 16, 2004)

That's my problem with free weight-no continuous resistance on some of the motions. A lot of machines are poorly designed, probably didn't have feedback from anyone who would use them.


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## Autarch (Aug 16, 2004)

Thanks for the feedback so far, guys!!! It really is helpful.

 My main reason though is a combination of space limitations and the fear of hurting myself on a variety of excercises because I won't ever have a spotter. I am trying to see what I can get for home that will allow me to do the equivalent of heavy bench presses to failure but still allow a fairly natural curve to the motion (rather than those crappy machines that will never let you drop the weight but only allow a straight line of motion)


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## Duncans Donuts (Aug 16, 2004)

In that regard, Autarch, I wouldn't dismiss getting one.  I wouldn't use it because I prefer the compound lifts with free weights, but I certainly wouldn't be so narrow-sighted and deride the potential benefits of a bowflex.

However, you could always buy a few dumbells and a barbell, some plates, and do some free weight work along with whatever machine you purchase.  If funds are a problem, you can't go wrong with a few dumbells and some plates.

If they aren't a problem, diversify.  Get a range of equiptment that will optimize your workout.


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## Vieope (Aug 16, 2004)

_I know that you will not like the question but you can´t really go to a gym? nearly impossible?_


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## Autarch (Aug 16, 2004)

"_I know that you will not like the question but you can´t really go to a gym? nearly impossible?"



_It's certainly possible for me to go to a gym but I just don't like the amount of time it takes. I don't like waiting for the equipment I want. I don't like putting on gym clothes, driving there, driving back. I don't like putting out money every month for it. I don't like being surrounded by so many people while I work out because I like to be able to just listen to the music I want to and focus on what I am doing.  

 I just don't like gyms very much, in general. I love having access to all of the equipment at them but I just like to be a lot more focused and private about my excercise. I like working out at home also because I can easily squeeze in an intense and focused 30 minute workout and have it take no more time than that in my day and I can just work out in my boxer shorts and then walk straight to the shower.


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## pumpchaser (Aug 16, 2004)

Duncan, props for your open mindedness. Try everything once.


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## derekisdman (Aug 17, 2004)

I have said it before, there is a bowflex in this house because my mother wanted one.  There are also free weights, because I wanted them 

So, I can also say coming from experience with both, that free weights are superior.  I will say that the bowflex resistance does seem identical to any cable machine that you might use.  I will do cable rows, and sometimes cable curls on the bowflex, the rest is all done with free weights.

People have said resistance is resistance and that is true.  However, having used both, you have to become accustomed to the bowflex resistance.  Someone benching 200 on the bowflex that has not lifted with free weights for an extended period of time I can almost promise you will not be able to lift 200 with free weights.  I'm betting about 150.  At the same time, someone benching 200 with free weights will probably not be able to lift 200 on the bowflex if they just use it for the first time.

The lack of leg work available on the bowflex is also a serious downfall imo.  I've done squats on the bowflex, and they are very uncomfortable and awkward feeling.  Firstly, i'm a very weak squatter.  Barbell squats I'm lucky to put 225 up 5 times @ 175 lbs; and in doing that my eyeballs would damned near pop out of my head from effort.  With the bowflex squat, I can load the 310 on there and do it 15 times, with definitely a tough effort, but nothing like free weight squats.

I think free weights are more versatile and would never give them up.  For me personally, the act of lifting unconfined solid Iron is more challenging and satisfying than pulley's with rods.  That's my 2 cents.


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## LAM (Aug 17, 2004)

Autarch said:
			
		

> I do want to put on a lot of muscle



you WILL NOT accomplish that by using a bow flex or any variable resistance type of machine...you need to either go to a gym and utilize a training program based on free weights or buy a bench a barbell and some db's to use at home...

you will not build a lot of muscle using a bowflex, etc.  anyone who claims they have doesn't know what a lot of muscle is..


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## pumpchaser (Aug 17, 2004)

Thanks for setting me straight dad; go back to thinking firmly inside the box. Pulleys have been used for decades thanks to Joe Gold, Zinkin and other innovators, and leverage is huge now, because it's awesome.


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## LAM (Aug 17, 2004)

pumpchaser said:
			
		

> Thanks for setting me straight dad; go back to thinking firmly inside the box. Pulleys have been used for decades thanks to Joe Gold, Zinkin and other innovators, and leverage is huge now, because it's awesome.



lol..if you are talking to me.

you don't know you ass from a hole in the ground of you think that machines are better than free weights.  enjoy having your 14" biceps and 20" thighs...


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## pumpchaser (Aug 17, 2004)

You're funny, that phrase is so worn and unoriginal that it's meaningless. Thanks for setting me straight though, you sound very intelligent, Lurch.


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## pumpchaser (Aug 17, 2004)

That's enough for now, seems that the dumbasses on the site won't stand for anyone with an opinion that differs from the rest of the sheep. Unfortunately this just confirms the weightlifter stereotype; nice going guys. I'll just stay on topic and ignore the very predictable reactions.


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## Saturday Fever (Aug 17, 2004)

How many top level bodybuilders use machines or bowflex exclusively?

Oh, that's right, none. But I'm sure it's just as good. And what would LAM know, he's only one of the largest guys on this site.


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## Phred (Aug 17, 2004)

I feel that cable lifts have their place.  It is another tool in the tool box and you should not limit your tools.  I have a Cross bow (low cost Bow Flex) that I use for only a hand full of exercises.  Stiff arm pull downs, lateral and side raises, tricep press, curls, and leg extensions (although I did weld a pipe on the extension to add weights).  I spend most of my time with free weights.  I purchased a used BodySolid cage a few weeks ago and feel that has been the best investment so far.  However, cables do offer some good isometric exercises.

Currently is seems like your tool box is limited.  Live within your limits.  As time moved on I found more variety is needed if I was to progress in strength and size.  I added free weights.  I have the space, and I am fortunate in that respect.  It has take me over two years to gather up the tools I have and many I made (standing calf mach, dip bars, t-bar row, better handles for the cross-bow and forearm roll).

We all have to start some where.  Who cares if you start with a Bow Flex?  I feel it is more important that you start.


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## pmech (Aug 17, 2004)

pumpchaser said:
			
		

> That's enough for now, seems that the dumbasses on the site won't stand for anyone with an opinion that differs from the rest of the sheep. Unfortunately this just confirms the weightlifter stereotype; nice going guys. I'll just stay on topic and ignore the very predictable reactions.


I dont believe they are expressing any sterotype, but you on the other hand have been aggresive about being right in every post you have made, BUT the major difference is that the majority of the ones respoonding to you with what works, know it works because of their physique. I dont have much to offer as I know what works for me only, and it prolly wont work for anyone else the same. But if I did have something to offer I wouldn't be an ass about my opinion being right, then accusing others of being the same way. 

As to the bowflex, it is a good machne if that is what you are comfortable with, but like it has been said several times, evaluate your goals and choose the tools appropriately. I personally chose to go to a gym, I am able to motivate myself more that way.


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## Arnold (Aug 17, 2004)

pumpchaser said:
			
		

> Thanks for setting me straight dad; go back to thinking firmly inside the box. Pulleys have been used for decades thanks to Joe Gold, Zinkin and other innovators, and leverage is huge now, because it's awesome.



machines have their uses, no doubt I use one every work-out, but they also have disadvantages. Here is a Q & A I did last year:

*Question:
If all things are equal will I get faster results from free weights or from machines? * 


*Answer:*
Unless you have an injury free weights should always be your choice of exercise for several reasons. 

Here are a few advantages of free weights: 

-  Using barbells & dumbbells are much more effective in strengthing/developing synergistic muscles, e.g. rotator cuff.
-  Biomechanically free weights match the natural movements of the body.
-  Overall you will develop greater strength & size using free weights.
-  Overall power is achieved much more efficiently.

*Here are a few disadvantages of machines:*

-  Machines force the body to maintain a pre-determined & often unnatural path.
-  Machines are not very effective in strengthing/developing synergistic muscles.
-  Machines are built to accomodate the "average" person's body, so if you're larger or smaller than average you may not fit very well.
-  Difficult to achieve maximum velocity due to the inherent constraints of a machine.

Now do not get me wrong here, I am not stating that machines should never be used. Machines do have their uses, but the majority of your exercises should be done with free weights. Machines do have some advantages as well. 

*Advantages of machines: * 

-  Some machines can be more efficient in muscle isolation.
-  In some respects, especially for a beginner machines can be safer.
-  A quicker work-out can be done utlizing machines, no plate changing, etc.


http://www.ironmagazine.com/viewarticle-981.html


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## BoneCrusher (Aug 17, 2004)

Dude I don't care if ya use a bucket of water and a mop handle ... just lift something and get healthy.


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## Autarch (Aug 17, 2004)

Thanks for that info there, Robert.

 I think that I am going to stick to free weights for now but I am absolutely going to have to get SOME kind of cable machine for some of the excercises I want to do at home. I have always planned on using free weights for every excercise I can and cables for anything else I can't easily do by myself or that is dangerous.

 I am going to just use dumbbells for now though, as if I get into a dangerous situation where my muscles work to failure during a benchpress or something I can just drop them to the side and not break my sternum 

 Anyhow, it seems to me that a mix of both seems like the best way to go with free weights as the focus.


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