# is it possible to come back from the darkside?



## OTG85 (Feb 27, 2012)

Just something that crosses my mind from time to time.I'm 29 years old been juicing on and off for 4 years.Not that I will probally ever do this but is it possible to build your natural testosteronelevels back to normal,train like a mad man and make decent natural gains.I know they will never be as good as on the sauce but somewhat decent.


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## Drew1975 (Feb 27, 2012)

ontopthegame85 said:


> Just something that crosses my mind from time to time.I'm 29 years old been juicing on and off for 4 years.Not that I will probally ever do this but is it possible to build your natural testosteronelevels back to normal,train like a mad man and make decent natural gains.I know they will never be as good as on the sauce but somewhat decent.


 

NO once in the dark always in the Dark


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## OTG85 (Feb 27, 2012)

The force is strong


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## Drew1975 (Feb 28, 2012)

ontopthegame85 said:


> the force is strong


 

lmao


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## OTG85 (Feb 28, 2012)

No one will ever know because 99% ppl here are geared


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## Jlive1980 (Feb 28, 2012)

ontopthegame85 said:


> The force is strong



Haha ain't that the truth 


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## redz (Feb 28, 2012)

Hard to resist after you have felt the effects.


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## ~RaZr~ (Feb 28, 2012)

The needle would be calling you back in no time


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## OTG85 (Feb 28, 2012)

~RaZr~ said:


> The needle would be calling you back in no time



They start talking to me in pct


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## acemon (Feb 28, 2012)

Like the song of the sirens. I can't help myself but entertain the thoughts of a bigger, badder cycle. I only held out for 5 weeks this time between cycles. I know that's bad and I know I am definately DARK.


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## MDR (Feb 28, 2012)

I quit about a year ago after over 20 years.  I've leaned out considerably, but I'm still in good shape and stronger than most.  Stopped because I'm 45 with major back issues, so training heavy and on didn't make much sense anymore.  My back pain is much better at the lighter weight.  So yes, I think it is very possible to come back.  I'll probably go in and get my test levels soon to see if TRT is needed, but at this point I feel good, with no health issues.


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## acemon (Feb 28, 2012)

MDR said:


> I quit about a year ago after over 20 years. I've leaned out considerably, but I'm still in good shape and stronger than most. Stopped because I'm 45 with major back issues, so training heavy and on didn't make much sense anymore. My back pain is much better at the lighter weight. So yes, I think it is very possible to come back. I'll probably go in and get my test levels soon to see if TRT is needed, but at this point I feel good, with no health issues.


 

Were you on TRT as well? Or just standard cycling?


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## brundel (Feb 28, 2012)

Regaining natural test production is possible but depends on your cycle history and PCT history as well as your personal response to fertility drugs. Age obviously also plays a factor.

The second part of your question regarding gains.....
If you have used AAS to take you beyond your natural potential the chance your gonna gain with normal/natural hormonal conditions is pretty much nil.

Stay in good shape.....be super lean...sure.
Continue to gain....dependent on how close to or past your natural potential you are when you stop AAS use.


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## BP2000 (Feb 28, 2012)

It depends.  If you are big and do juice and decide you could be happy just being super lean then yes. 

If you think you will stay a monster without then that won't happen.


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## OTG85 (Feb 28, 2012)

I think I will stick with the sauce


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## MDR (Feb 28, 2012)

acemon said:


> Were you on TRT as well? Or just standard cycling?


 
Cycling with PCT, for the most part.  I did do some extended cycles, and some pretty extreme doses at times.


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## Vibrant (Feb 28, 2012)

ontopthegame85 said:


> They start talking to me in pct



That's why I'm pinning during pct


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## Merkaba (Feb 28, 2012)

"sauce for ever, you shall, hmmm?  "  - says yoda


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## bjg (Feb 29, 2012)

ontopthegame85 said:


> Just something that crosses my mind from time to time.I'm 29 years old been juicing on and off for 4 years.Not that I will probally ever do this but is it possible to build your natural testosteronelevels back to normal,train like a mad man and make decent natural gains.I know they will never be as good as on the sauce but somewhat decent.



stop now it is never too late..you will go down for a while and then things will go back to normal. 
was not smart to start in the first place. if you stay clean for 2 years from now you will realize that you would have been better off without juicing in the first place.
juicing for 4years + clean for 2 years after = 6 years clean
so no need for juicing.


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## PushAndPull (Feb 29, 2012)

Interesting, decent natural gains after years of gear. I would guess it depends on your genetics. If gear allowed you to surpass your natural genetic potential then I doubt you could make much gains after quiting. Probably the best case would be keeping what you have. Be really interesting if you did, especially since you're only 29 and have been using for just 4yrs.


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## Bonesaw (Mar 29, 2012)

wouldn't juicing up to your natural genetic potential then stopping and maintaining be the healthiest and most realistic route?


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## bjg (Apr 2, 2012)

Bonesaw said:


> wouldn't juicing up to your natural genetic potential then stopping and maintaining be the healthiest and most realistic route?


 if you get to your natural genetic potential by juicing ..you will gradually loose everything once you stop juicing. you just can't cheat ..whatever you gain artificially ..you will loose as simple as that ..and any idiot who tells you the opposite is just a plain liar


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## bigbenj (Apr 2, 2012)

bjg said:


> if you get to your natural genetic potential by juicing ..you will gradually loose everything once you stop juicing. you just can't cheat ..whatever you gain artificially ..you will loose as simple as that ..and any idiot who tells you the opposite is just a plain liar


Please explain to us the science behind this theory. Or are you just talking out of your ass?(like usual)


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## ~RaZr~ (Apr 2, 2012)

Isn't worth it Ben. He is posting up broscience crap....


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## bjg (Apr 2, 2012)

bigbenj it would be my pleasure to meet you someday and show you how easy for me to kick your little ass... be assured that i have kicked much bigger asses before and you won't even make me break a sweat.
on a second thought i  feel sorry for you ..you are so pathetic and cannot carry any decent conversation ...so my advice go see a shrink
As for my science behind AAS ...everybody knows that as you use AAS and gain any muscle from it ..you will loose everything as your body regains its normal natural equilibrium if you COMPLETELY stop AAS for a while...the fact is nobody stops completely since as they start loosing gains they restart AAS again..otherwise why do many cycles???? just one cycle , few pounds and that's it right???? and many just won't admit that harsh truth.
Besides if you abuse AAS you even go down below natural level because your body and your system will not be able to function normally and produce test as before. Just look around you and look at [pros who COMPLETELY stopped AAS and you be the judge ..that is if you have the brains to do so.
And the stupidest thing one can do is to try to reach his natural potential using AAS because he can do it without anyways and he won't loose it.
And i can also assure you that even the so claimed irreversible gains using hgh will also be lost with time as you stop hgh and that is a fact that i have seen with my own eyes.


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## bigbenj (Apr 2, 2012)

^doesn't workout. Weighs 150lbs. Can't reach the top shelf of the cupboard.


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## hoyle21 (Apr 2, 2012)

bigbenj said:


> ^doesn't workout. Weighs 150lbs. Can't reach the top shelf of the cupboard.



Still no pics.   That's for sure.


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## MuscleGauge1 (Apr 4, 2012)

Of course it's possible. You just have to WANT it. The biggest difference between gearing and not is patience. Patience to wait for your gains to happen. It won't be quick and fast. It will be slow and steady. If you have the patience to wait it out you will make it.


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## Bonesaw (Apr 9, 2012)

Bonesaw said:


> wouldn't juicing up to your natural genetic potential then stopping and maintaining be the healthiest and most realistic route?


whats another opinion on this?


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## PushAndPull (Apr 10, 2012)

Bonesaw said:


> whats another opinion on this?



I wouldn't think that's a realistic route in the first place. 
If gear allows you to surpass your genetic potential then how will you know when you've reached that potential?


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## Bonesaw (Apr 10, 2012)

If I want to weight 3lb per inch of height (222lb) wouldn't gearing over than then maintaining somewhere around the 220 mark be ideal?


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## PushAndPull (Apr 10, 2012)

Maybe, assuming there are no negative side effects. 
Also, if you take that approach, then you better be extremely confident that you don't have an addictive personality.
You might want to take it slow, like a cycle a year and see how that goes. You can see how addictive it is, how difficult it is to keep the gains post cycle, ect...


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## tallguy34 (Apr 10, 2012)

ontopthegame85 said:


> Just something that crosses my mind from time to time.I'm 29 years old been juicing on and off for 4 years.Not that I will probally ever do this but is it possible to build your natural testosteronelevels back to normal,train like a mad man and make decent natural gains.I know they will never be as good as on the sauce but somewhat decent.



Darth Vader did it... I'm sure its possible!


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## bjg (Apr 10, 2012)

Bonesaw said:


> If I want to weight 3lb per inch of height (222lb) wouldn't gearing over than then maintaining somewhere around the 220 mark be ideal?


bonesaw  man if you gear up to 222lbs and you stop the gear you will not maintain anything.....you must reach your full potential naturally and that takes years of training before even thinking about gear. you are still young and you don't need to mess up your test and your system. 
And there is no ideal body weight , each individual is different and you should not compare with others, the only competition you should have is yourself,...any progress is very good..work on that!


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## XYZ (Apr 10, 2012)

bjg said:


> bonesaw  man if you gear up to 222lbs and you stop the gear *you will not maintain anything*.....you must reach your full potential naturally and that takes years of training before even thinking about gear. you are still young and you don't need to mess up your test and your system.
> And there is no ideal body weight , each individual is different and you should not compare with others, the only competition you should have is yourself,...any progress is very good..work on that!




How would you possibly know that?  With every person being so different that statment is beyond inaccurate, it's opinion, not fact.


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## Canucklehead (Apr 10, 2012)

BJG you are so full of shit.... long term AAS use actually causes changes on a cellular level in your muscles that make it easier to build/maintain muscle, even after you stop the AAS (upregulation of androgen receptors, increase in muscle cell numbers and muscle cell nuclei, etc). I know several guys that used to juice heavily and don't any more, when they start training/eating seriously they blow up fast, even though they no longer use AAS.


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## bjg (Apr 10, 2012)

Canucklehead said:


> BJG you are so full of shit.... long term AAS use actually causes changes on a cellular level in your muscles that make it easier to build/maintain muscle, even after you stop the AAS (upregulation of androgen receptors, increase in muscle cell numbers and muscle cell nuclei, etc). I know several guys that used to juice heavily and don't any more, when they start training/eating seriously they blow up fast, even though they no longer use AAS.



dude i know dozens of guys who look like shit now while 20 years back they were competing.
your theory on AAS is BS and many people keep taking AAS and claiming that they don't.
Long term use of AAS = you will be addicted and in deep shit that's all.
When a juicer claims he maintained gains after stopping steroids he usually means during off periods between cycles ...it is only possible because he did not give himself time to lose everything that's all ...stopping AAS means STOPPING FOR GOOD and for years.


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## Calves of Steel (Apr 10, 2012)

Nothiing is permanent in this game. Not muscle growth, not receptor changes, not organ growth, not facial hair, not even balding on your head. Chances of restoring your testosterone levels over time? No one can say. Chances of staying past your natural limit without juice? Not likely. Reality is, you can reach a certain size without steroids, there's a range you can hover in going on and off, there's a size you can be with nonstop use or blasting and cruising, and if you want to go without steroids, you're going to have to accept being a little smaller. Although any of that "you go back to exactly what you were before you started juicing" is complete bro-science and wishful thinking for anyone that didn't juice, you can maintain what is near your genetic limit without gear if you're 100% dedicated. Few cells in your body live throughout your life, and muscle cells definitely aren't in that category.


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## bjg (Apr 10, 2012)

+ there are REAL and MANY medical research studies linking steroids to cardiovascular and cardiac problems leading to DEATH. 
but many tend to just ignore these studies and gather their info from some steroid sites or from some gym punk.


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## Calves of Steel (Apr 10, 2012)

As a person that conducts medical studies, I can tell you that a lot of them are bull, most of the data is collected by 18-24 year olds who are far more focused on making a grade than accuracy and precision. Plus, there's a lot of politics going on with demonizing steroids. Don't believe everything you read. You would be surprised as to what and just how much a person can take, and actually benefit from it. These are compounds that are supposed to be in the human body to some extent and serve very important functions. As far as cycling and juicing goes, it's all calculated risk, but to some people very well worth it man. Life's too short to live with terrible genetics if building muscle is what you love.


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## bjg (Apr 10, 2012)

Calves of Steel said:


> As a person that conducts medical studies, I can tell you that a lot of them are bull, most of the data is collected by 18-24 year olds who are far more focused on making a grade than accuracy and precision. Plus, there's a lot of politics going on with demonizing steroids. Don't believe everything you read. You would be surprised as to what and just how much a person can take, and actually benefit from it. These are compounds that are supposed to be in the human body to some extent and serve very important functions. As far as cycling and juicing goes, it's all calculated risk, but to some people very well worth it man. Life's too short to live with terrible genetics if building muscle is what you love.


sure it is a choice ,  but when it comes to advising a new lifter i would not encourage him to do AAS  for many reasons...as far  as a calculated risks ...to some extent ... the dosages used by some have unknown risks even unknown to studies which makes it very uncalculated and very dangerous


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## charley (Apr 10, 2012)

bjg.........do us all a favor bro, speak to us with a little respect, if you really have something to say we will listen but when you treat us all like shit we won't be able to hear your message even if you have one because we are pissed at how you present your opinion..........


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## Bonesaw (Apr 10, 2012)

im 6'2 i think i could maintain 220+ easily


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## bjg (Apr 11, 2012)

charley said:


> bjg.........do us all a favor bro, speak to us with a little respect, if you really have something to say we will listen but when you treat us all like shit we won't be able to hear your message even if you have one because we are pissed at how you present your opinion..........


 show me one time where i did not respect a forum member unless he started insulting me first ..and most of the times i don't even answer


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## Calves of Steel (Apr 11, 2012)

We're all on steroids all the time, including naturals. Gains on juice and gains while natural are really the same. More estrogen = more water and bloat, less estrogen = leaner and harder gains. Genetics make a bigger difference than moderate steroid use.


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## desmorris (Apr 11, 2012)

look like i fell into my bed....nice thread...


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## Standard Donkey (Apr 12, 2012)

bjg said:


> + there are REAL and MANY medical research studies linking steroids to cardiovascular and cardiac problems leading to DEATH.
> but many tend to just ignore these studies and gather their info from some steroid sites or from some gym punk.




isn't this what blood tests are for?


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## Curt James (Apr 28, 2012)

bjg said:


> dude i know dozens of guys who look like shit now while 20 years back they were competing.
> your theory on AAS is BS and many people keep taking AAS and claiming that they don't.
> *Long term use of AAS = you will be addicted and in deep shit that's all.*
> When a juicer claims he maintained gains after stopping steroids he usually means during off periods between cycles ...it is only possible because he did not give himself time to lose everything that's all ...stopping AAS means STOPPING FOR GOOD and for years.



Lyle Alzado.

End thread, brother! Alzado used AAS from 1969 until at least his retirement from the NFL in 1985. That's a rock's throw from 20 years of AAS use!

"I started taking anabolic steroids in 1969 and never stopped."
—Lyle Alzado

According to at least one article found online, Alzado's brain cancer is extremely rare and usually only found in AIDS cases. If his cancer was caused by AAS then where are all the other deaths in football and baseball for that matter which would _also _be attributed to AAS abuse?


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## Curt James (Apr 28, 2012)

tallguy34 said:


> Darth Vader did it... I'm sure its possible!





Darth Vader - The Suit - Episode III - YouTube


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## OTG85 (May 11, 2012)

After this cycle I plan on taking a long break from juice maybe a year or two.I want to totally clean my system out.I have no plans to be a bodybuilder.I have nothing but respect for those guy's,but there is no money in the sport for one(only a few elite guy's get paid doing it),I don't have the genetics for bodybuilding.I love gear don't get me wrong but if your not naturally suffering from low t why take it year round.I will get my levels checked 6 week's after a aggressive pct it may be to late and the damage is done,but I'm confident I can bounce back 100%


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## bjg (May 11, 2012)

^^^ sure you can bounce back ......and i hope you never touch AAS again..you might go down after AAS but with hard training you will not feel so bad. I ve seen many people stopping completely AAS and some others are addicted...


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## OTG85 (May 11, 2012)

I don't think I will stop forever.Just a long break aas is a part of me,and I love studying and understanding it.I just want to get more stable in my life before I go back.


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## WendysBaconator (May 11, 2012)

bigbenj said:


> ^doesn't workout. Weighs 150lbs. Can't reach the top shelf of the cupboard.



I just saw this & started crying


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## NoCode8511 (May 11, 2012)

ontopthegame85 said:


> .I will get my levels checked 6 week's after a aggressive pct it may be to late and the damage is done,but I'm confident I can bounce back 100%



What do you plan on using for pct?


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## OTG85 (May 12, 2012)

Hcg,armoasin,clomid......I was thinking of running pct for 6, weeks wait 6 weeks after last  pct dose and test levels....I will finish my cycle now.


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## NoCode8511 (May 12, 2012)

ontopthegame85 said:


> Hcg,armoasin,clomid......I was thinking of running pct for 6, weeks wait 6 weeks after last  pct dose and test levels....I will finish my cycle now.



Damn, 6 weeks of clomid would have me feeling like shit. I hate clomid... I have been using torem for my pct.


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## OTG85 (May 12, 2012)

Clomid not to bad...I  may only run 50mg the whole time ed


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## btex34n88 (May 24, 2012)

People who decide to use gear and then want to come off and stop completely probably never should have used it. It's a lifestyle


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## OTG85 (May 24, 2012)

btex34n88 said:


> People who decide to use gear and then want to come off and stop completely probably never should have used it. It's a lifestyle



I never said I was done just a break to see if I could recover my natural test


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## btex34n88 (May 24, 2012)

ontopthegame85 said:


> I never said I was done just a break to see if I could recover my natural test




Im not talking about you lol just a general statement. I dont think you will ever come off forever. I just think that younger guys who decide to use at like 18-20 and then lose interest in lifting were not meant to use gear. I just see using gear as something that becomes part of your life. coming off to try and have kids, etc is normal


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## desmorris (May 28, 2012)

may be you can come back rom darkness. i think that every one did. that not tough.


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## Bnjf (May 28, 2012)

Great topic guys. I have done one cycle a year for about 6 years now. Always in the spring/summer. This year, im not gonna do one and try to stay off for good. I say try because i DO enjoy them, i just would feel better mentally staying off. Now, i never ever took the advice of the internet bro science and always did "low dose" cycles and was happy with a little boost instead of all out blowing up. Id gain 10 or so pounds and be at 170 and look great! Im 5’9" and ive always been muscular lean/skinny. The problem is that not on the juice, like many, id lose interest and slow down or stop working out all together. I kept up working out over the winter and i weigh 165 right now. Im very happy and know for sure i can hit 170 or more at some point. I think the problem is that people take soo much juice and get soo far past their genetic potential, they get used to looking like that and have to keep going or even want to keep up an image they have created. Its unfortunate. I was glad i got close to my potential and thats all because now i think i can keep it up naturally and be more healthy . Btw im 38 and had bloodwork a month ago. My total test was 600. Im fine with that . So i dont think low doses are going to effect you long term. I do think doing 3 or 4 cycles a year will though. I used to hate when people said juicers are lazy but i gotra tell you, in a way thats true..at least all the people i have known.

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## brundel (Jun 16, 2012)

Bro....All the guys Im around are "juicers".
They are some of the most dedicated, hard working men on earth.
Steroids dont just automatically make you a champion.

You have done 6 cycles and have gained 5lbs? Is this correct?
I can gain 5lbs clean in a week by eating trail  mix every night before bed. 
Its not the steroids that makes a champion. Its hard work. The people you know who are lazy, are not bodybuilders.
Bodybuilding is a 24/7 365 sport.
If you half ass it
if you quit
nothing happens. This is how after 6 cycles your no better off than never having done one.

Im not trying to attack you but saying bodybuilders are lazy because they use steroids is just ignorance.
I know more than a few. Pro and non. Not one of em is lazy.
All of em put every ounce of themselves heart and soul into the sport. Even the non competitors.

Trust me. Steroids are only the finishing touch unless your 1 in a million like some of the top guys.


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## Bnjf (Jun 17, 2012)

Yes, this is correct. I didnt do it right by slacking off when my strength gains subsided after cycle. This DOES happen and many get "lazy" because of it. Ive seen it man. In no way im saying "everyone". I agree that "bodybuilders" are dedicated. But what is the percentage of users who are actual bodybuilders use ? At my gym..1. That's it. The majority that use are people using for an image or looks. You must be around pros all day but I'm around the average Joe user. I. HAVE been around some that have used three or so cycles a year and theyre all on cholesterol and high blood pressure meds. I did a cycle a year and was never dedicated so its not for me..I gained 20lbs my first and about 10-15 every other. But youre right, you must be more dedicated to get bigger and stronger. I wasn't willing to take any risks with numorous cycles a year because I'm not competing and IMO it ain't worth it. So for the occassional user I'd say its no problem to come back. For the hard cores I'd say not so easy to recover. And gaining 5lbs in a week for my body type ain't happening eating trail mix. Lmao! 

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## brundel (Jun 17, 2012)

THere is a risk/reward thats for certain.
THe more you use and the longer the more unhealthy it is.

I agree if I start thinking about the "summer" oral cycle guys around here.
There are a ton of guys who will run var or win cycles during the summer then just stop training during the rest of the year.
They look the same every year (not bad) but always stagnant or terrible and out of shape the rest of the year because their heart really isnt into it.
The gym I train at is pretty much all Bodybuilders and quite a few pros. Even the girls are bigger than most of the summer var cycle guys.

Im a hard gainer as well. Part of the reason why I started using gear in the first place.
Recently I had a cardiac arrest. Yes steroids may have played a part in it.
Now Im forced to be natural and .....come back from the darkside after a long time using and the last 5 years on with no breaks.

I believe that I can get back to my on cycle size with no steroids.
Just food.
I wont be as lean for certain but Ill be big as I want to ever be.
Im gonna run a log of it once Im cleared for training again.

10 weeks off so far....its killing me.

Itll be a testament. Can you come back. We will see for sure cause Im gonna give everything I have to it and see where I land.


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## Bnjf (Jun 17, 2012)

Wow man God bless you and Im glad you're ok. This is part of the reason I didn't want to get too crazy and stay on too long. I tell ya there is no doubt you'll be back and healthier than ever IMO . I've been eating very strict and making solid gains because of it. Before I'd not paid so much attention to nutrition as I knew the juice was always on the clock for me LOL. But now I'm relying on the food and protien. I'm sure you'll be back better than ever man..good luck to you and keep us up to date!

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## jshel12 (Jun 17, 2012)

brundel said:


> THere is a risk/reward thats for certain.
> THe more you use and the longer the more unhealthy it is.
> 
> I agree if I start thinking about the "summer" oral cycle guys around here.
> ...



First off good luck with everything hope your health continues to improve and you make it all the way back.  Are you gonna be on trt or are you 100% natural.  And if you are 100% natural are you going to do an aggressive pct (hcg, clomid, aromasin, etc) to try and get your natural test levels back.  Reason I ask is i have been blasting and cruising for a little over a year and did various cycles starting at age 23 before that.  Since I'm only 29 and I recently found out my kideys were leaking some protein,(nothing major according to my nephroligist but I obviously don't want my conition to worsen) I think I could still come off and recover but it will be very difficult if I keep it up for another couple of years. I'm debating on using 150-200mgs a week for life or doing a long aggressive pct.  Either way I'm done with orals and will just cycle moderate dosages of test and tren, eventually dropping tren altogether.


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## brundel (Jun 18, 2012)

Im on HRT. 200mg cyp per week. Well 100mg e3d to keep my levels stable. It really makes a big difference.
200 every 7 days give a big spike and I feel shitty by day 5.
any ways...
HRT for life is a decision I made a few years ago.

Another decision I made years ago was no orals...they just destroy you.
I will remain on HRT. and perhaps some FOrmeron to keep estro in check.
My last cycle was almost 3g of injectables so hrt dose is nothing to me.

I feel great though. It keeps my mood and libido in place.


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## brundel (Jun 18, 2012)

This is why Im lurking around the natty forum now....Im gonna have to train natural.
I do know that growth is calorie related. Im just gonna have to fight harder to keep the fat off.


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## BIGBEN2011 (Jun 20, 2012)

200mg of hg test is not natty really.and i think the worded it wroung  he said people that use steriods are lazy.if you use steriods and are lazy you are weird not the norm when i am steriods i am an animal when i am off is when i get lazy gear makes you not lazy would be more right.


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## Bnjf (Jun 21, 2012)

BIGBEN2011 said:


> 200mg of hg test is not natty really.and i think the worded it wroung  he said people that use steriods are lazy.if you use steriods and are lazy you are weird not the norm when i am steriods i am an animal when i am off is when i get lazy gear makes you not lazy would be more right.



That's exactly what I was saying

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## jimm (Jun 21, 2012)

this is a question i ask my self atleast 10 times a day right now lol ive been off for about 6 weeks iv got some test e and tri tren that talk to me all the time..

hmm might just wait a week or 2 max and get that tren back in full effect!!!!


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## brundel (Jun 24, 2012)

200mg weekly is what the Dr gives me.
My cycles were more than 10x that much gear.
Going back from that 200mg is nothing.

I guess well see.
Im gonna run a log when I can train again.
GOnna try to get back to the same size as I was before....without the drugs.


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## andyrodgers (Jul 27, 2012)

Getting the green days again are difficult but you can try,,


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