# black history month



## Dark Geared God (Mar 3, 2010)

*3 Calif. teachers suspended for honoring O.J. Simpson, Dennis Rodman in black history parade*

03-03-2010 08:22 PM EST |By CHRISTINA HOAG, Associated Press Writer 
LOS ANGELES (Associated Press) -- Three Los Angeles elementary school teachers accused of giving children portraits of O.J. Simpson, Dennis Rodman and RuPaul to carry in a Black History Month parade have been removed from their classrooms, a school district spokeswoman said Wednesday.
Children from other classes at the school displayed photos of more appropriate black role models, such as Nelson Mandela, Harriet Tubman and President Barack Obama, Los Angeles Unified School District spokeswoman Gayle Pollard-Terry said.
The incident occurred Friday at Wadsworth Avenue Elementary School in South Los Angeles, where the student body is more than 90 percent Latino.


District Superintendent Ramon Cortines placed the teachers _ all white men who teach first, second and fourth grades _ on administrative leave on Tuesday while an investigation is conducted, Pollard-Terry said.
"The superintendent will not let anyone make a mockery out of Black History Month," she said.
The issue was brought to district officials' attention by the Los Angeles chapter of the NAACP after the organization received a complaint early Monday, chapter President Leon Jenkins said.
Jenkins said he felt the teachers acted in concert to mock black heroes and children's innocence.
"These are not the people we want our young people to emulate or believe these people represent the best of the African-American community," Jenkins said. "It's hard for the NAACP to believe this was a mistake."
Simpson, a former NFL star, is serving a nine-year prison sentence for robbery and kidnapping. He was famously acquitted in 1995 of murdering his ex-wife and her friend.
RuPaul is a drag queen performer. Rodman, a former NBA star, has gained notoriety for bad boy behavior on and off the basketball court.
Some parents at the school on Wednesday said the issue was overblown.
Sharon Tinson, who has two daughters at the school and attended Friday's celebration, said she had been surprised to see Simpson displayed in the parade. But she noted that Simpson, like Rodman, was a great athlete before falling from grace. RuPaul simply has an alternative lifestyle, she added.
She noted the event also included a tribute to pop singer Michael Jackson, who has also had a checkered career.
"I kind of laughed at it," Tinson said. "I wasn't offended."
Gabriel Blackson, whose son attends the school, said he also took a larger view of the ruckus.
"These guys were heroes before. People make mistakes," he said. "I think they show kids they can be somebody, to push them to be somebody."
Jenkins said he is calling for the teachers to be fired.


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## DOMS (Mar 4, 2010)




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## FMJ (Mar 4, 2010)

DOMS said:


>


 
Now THAT's a role model!


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## GearsMcGilf (Mar 4, 2010)

At least they didn't honour sell-outs like Bill Cosby, Michael Jordan, Oprah Winfrey, Justice Clearance Thomas, Condi Rice, Colin Powel, or any other of the phoney _blacks._

The only thing I do find offencive about this is that they left out Tookie Williams and Mumia Abu Jamal. I mean, if you found a street gang, then write some childrens books, or dust a cop, doesn't that entitle one to call themselves a true black hero? WTF can't these people give credit where it's due. This IS Black History month FFS! What about Mike Vick?!??!

Why can't we have a white history month where we can honour true white heros like Jim Crowe or David Duke?!?!  It's not fukkin' fair!


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## FMJ (Mar 4, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Why can't we have a white history month where we can honour true white heros like Jim Crowe or David Duke?!?!


 
That's a very good question! I guess it's because the white race is just too littered with serial killers.


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## DOMS (Mar 4, 2010)

There's a high school in Salt Lake City that has a black principal.  They have black history month twice a year.

This is the sort of one-sided racist crap that keeps racism alive and flourishing.


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## DOMS (Mar 4, 2010)

FMJ said:


> That's a very good question! I guess it's because the white race is just too littered with serial killers.



This posts reminds me of a thread here on IM.  We were discussing the issue of race and crime statistics.  I was pointing out that blacks were responsible for more crime than their percentage of the American population.  

I caught shit for being racist because I was pointing out the facts.

When I stated, with no proof whatsoever, that there were more white serial killers than any other race, no one said anything about it being a racist remark.

So remember boys and girls, it's only racist if you're white.


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## DOMS (Mar 4, 2010)

Oh, and being a serial killer shows good work ethic and being intelligent enough not to get caught on the first kill.


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## sprayherup (Mar 4, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Oh, and being a serial killer shows good work ethic and being intelligent enough not to get caught on the first kill.


 

Word, the black serial killer would probably get drunk and stoned and get caught trying to get away from the scene.


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## FMJ (Mar 4, 2010)

DOMS said:


> ...there were more white serial killers than any other race...


 

Incidentally, I've read this. I think this is factual.




sprayherup said:


> Word, the black serial killer would probably get drunk and stoned and get caught trying to get away from the scene.


 
Probably? Don't give them that much credit. lol 
I remember watching a "dumbest criminals" show where a black teen shot and killed another guy. With police in persuit, he took off into a wooded area. He was caught in about 10 minutes because the police were following the lights on his sneakers which lit everytime he took a step!
Fuckin' genius.


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## DOMS (Mar 4, 2010)

FMJ said:


> Incidentally, I've read this. I think this is factual.



The point was that by stating facts, with links to data, and I was called racist.  I then made the serial killer statement, without providing data, and no one said shit about racism.  That was the point.


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## FMJ (Mar 4, 2010)

DOMS said:


> The point was that by stating facts, with links to data, and I was called racist. I then made the serial killer statement, without providing data, and no one said shit about racism. That was the point.


 
Oh yeah, that's typical though. People don't usually accuse someone of being a racist unless they are making alligations about a race different from thier own. 
Facts or not. No one ever called a black guy a racist for calling another black guy a nigger. It's only racist if any other race does it.


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## DOMS (Mar 4, 2010)

FMJ said:


> Oh yeah, that's typical though. People don't usually accuse someone of being a racist unless they are making alligations about a race different from thier own.
> Facts or not. No one ever called a black guy a racist for calling another black guy a nigger. It's only racist if any other race does it.



No one calls a black comedian racist if he says "cracker", but it's not the same if a white comedian says "nigger."


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## FMJ (Mar 4, 2010)

DOMS said:


> No one calls a black comedian racist if he says "cracker", but it's not the same if a white comedian says "nigger."


 
Yep. That's 100% true. I see your point. So black's have total racist "ammunity" while whites have to walk on egg shells to avoid a racist title.


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## sprayherup (Mar 4, 2010)




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## maniclion (Mar 4, 2010)

We should have Poor History Month, round up all the ghetto dwellers, toothless trailer park wonders, barrio rats, Pitmans family; give them food, booze and 1000 garbage trucks and have them built parade floats and then hold a Parade Across America...final destination the Grand Canyon....just lead them right to the edge and watch them drop off....


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## KelJu (Mar 4, 2010)

DOMS said:


> This posts reminds me of a thread here on IM.  We were discussing the issue of race and crime statistics.  I was pointing out that blacks were responsible for more crime than their percentage of the American population.
> 
> I caught shit for being racist because I was pointing out the facts.
> 
> ...



It has nothing to do with skin color. 
It is all culture. The reason black people commit more crime is because of poverty. Crime isn't inherent in the DNA. 

The reason serial killers are nearly always white is because whites are the ones who snap from the pressure of life and the demands of society on them. The demands put upon white people especially at an early age warps the psyche. 

The formula as been the exact same for almost every serial killer. Overly religious, strict, unloving, and abusive parents make serial killers. I was just watching the iceman tapes last week about Richard Kuklinski who probably killed over 200 people. 

Everyone should watch that movie, the HBO version.


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## sprayherup (Mar 4, 2010)

I thought the Iceman was a contract killer for the mob. I wouldn't say he's in the same class as a Dahmer or Bundy who killed for no reason at all. 

I saw that interview. It was awesome.


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## Little Wing (Mar 4, 2010)

they forgot lex the impaler


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## KelJu (Mar 4, 2010)

sprayherup said:


> I thought the Iceman was a contract killer for the mob. I wouldn't say he's in the same class as a Dahmer or Bundy who killed for no reason at all.
> 
> I saw that interview. It was awesome.



He wasn't a contract killer when he was 8. He killed dogs and cats for fun. He would tortured neighborhood pets. He beat up some kids damn new to death with a coat rack when he was a teenager.


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## FMJ (Mar 4, 2010)

KelJu said:


> It has nothing to do with skin color.
> It is all culture. The reason black people commit more crime is because of poverty.


 
I can agree to some of what you're saying. But it's not only poverty. You see the photo of 50 Cent above?  Does this person look like a criminal to you? He isn't poor, yet what is his message to the youth?
Humans learn through example. What is the majority of youth learning from this type of photo. This whole gangster lifestyle that (mostly) black youth tries to emulate leads to criminal behavior. I agree, poverty is one reason. Trying to gain respect from thier fellow gangster wanna-bes is another. Gang related crimes are a large chunk of the crime occuring in many cities.


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## KelJu (Mar 4, 2010)

FMJ said:


> I can agree to some of what you're saying. But it's not only poverty. You see the photo of 50 Cent above?  Does this person look like a criminal to you? He isn't poor, yet what is his message to the youth?
> Humans learn through example. What is the majority of youth learning from this type of photo. This whole gangster lifestyle that (mostly) black youth tries to emulate leads to criminal behavior. I agree, poverty is one reason. Trying to gain respect from thier fellow gangster wanna-bes is another. Gang related crimes are a large chunk of the crime occuring in many cities.



Sports and music allow a handful of ghetto thugs leave the ghetto. 
Other than that, very few do. It is the same reason that very few rednecks leave the trailer park. 

To raise above, someone has to break the chain of ignorance and poor character. Someone has to fight and scrap to achieve more and than pass that on to their children.


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## Saney (Mar 4, 2010)

Another Racism War!!

Fact: People in Poverty are more likely to commit crimes; Majority of Blacks are in Poverty (white man's fault) 

Fact: Niggers are worthless; Niggers come in all shapes and sizes AND colors

Fact: Niggers existed in USA before Blacks were ever transported over; good thing they were, they worked for basically nothing (except they were fed Corn Bread and Watermelon)


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## pitman (Mar 4, 2010)

lil wayne ... lil weezy..you cannot get another dental excuse for missing court on gun carrying charges burn down the fuckin court house..lol what's next threaten the judge ? nigga's


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## DOMS (Mar 4, 2010)

KelJu said:


> It has nothing to do with skin color.
> It is all culture. The reason black people commit more crime is because of poverty. Crime isn't inherent in the DNA.



Here's a thought that will screw with your head:

Look at any race of people in the US; white, black, Hispanic, Arab, or whatever.  Now, compare the way that they live in the US in terms of wealth and crime.  Now compare them to their nations of origin.  

You're going to find that each race corresponds to the lifestyle of the countries/area of origin.



KelJu said:


> The reason serial killers are nearly always white is because whites are the ones who snap from the pressure of life and the demands of society on them. The demands put upon white people especially at an early age warps the psyche.
> 
> The formula as been the exact same for almost every serial killer. *Overly religious*, strict, unloving, and abusive parents make serial killers.



I don't buy that.  The Wiki article has a great list that covers the aspects that make a serial killer:



The majority are single, white males.
They are often intelligent, with IQs in the "above normal" range.
Despite their high IQs, they have trouble holding down jobs, and often work menial jobs.
They tend to come from unstable families.
As children, they are typically abandoned by their fathers and raised by domineering mothers.
Their families often have criminal, psychiatric and alcoholic histories.
They were often abused ??? emotionally, physically and/or sexually ??? by a family member.
They have high rates of suicide attempts.
From an early age, many are intensely interested in voyeurism, fetishism, and sadomasochistic pornography.
More than 60 percent wet their beds beyond the age of 12.
Many are fascinated with fire starting.
They are involved in sadistic activity or torturing small animals.

Nothing about religion.  Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that it's the cause of all of life's ills.

I've spent quite a bit of time doing personal study on serial killers.  It's a fascinating topic.

And yes, I do watch Dexter.   I can't wait for season 5!!!


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## DOMS (Mar 4, 2010)

Sanesloot said:


> Another Racism War!!
> 
> Fact: People in Poverty are more likely to commit crimes; Majority of Blacks are in Poverty (white man's fault)
> 
> ...



Another fun fact: black slaves from Africa were purchased from other black Africans.


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## DOMS (Mar 4, 2010)

pitman said:


> lil wayne ... lil weezy..you cannot get another dental excuse for missing court on gun carrying charges burn down the fuckin court house..lol what's next threaten the judge ? nigga's



When it comes to spelling and grammar, I'm pretty sure that even black gansta thugs feel bad for you.


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## Saney (Mar 4, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Another fun fact: black slaves from Africa were purchased from other black Africans.



Very Correct.


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 4, 2010)

FMJ said:


> Yep. That's 100% true. I see your point. So black's have total racist "ammunity" while whites have to walk on egg shells to avoid a racist title.


 

Do you have your getto card mr john mayor..


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 4, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Here's a thought that will screw with your head:
> 
> Look at any race of people in the US; white, black, Hispanic, Arab, or whatever. Now, compare the way that they live in the US in terms of wealth and crime. Now compare them to their nations of origin.
> 
> ...


 

dr kelju and Bio  ....


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## FMJ (Mar 4, 2010)

The Situation said:


> Do you have your getto card mr john mayor..


 
Umm... Sorry Sitch, that went over my head.


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 4, 2010)

DOMS said:


> The point was that by stating facts, with links to data, and I was called racist. I then made the serial killer statement, without providing data, and no one said shit about racism. That was the point.


 
Its like the racial profiling... my grandfather said it best all these assholes say we profile if 95% of the area your substation(police) is black or mexican .. what do you think the  chances of pulling over someone black or mexican?


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 4, 2010)

FMJ said:


> Umm... Sorry Sitch, that went over my head.


 
the singer john mayor in an interview he used the word nigger and said he had a getto card meaning he could say the word and get a pass with out catching shit..


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 4, 2010)

*here ya go..*

John Mayer took to Twitter to apologize for using the N-word in an interview with Playboy magazine.
In the interview, in which he talks about his great sex with Jessica Simpson, he also used the racial epithet. The whole section of the interview is at the bottom, so scroll down to read it.
Over three Tweets Wednesday afternoon Mayer wrote:
Re: using the 'N word' in an interview: I am sorry that I used the word. And it's such a shame that I did because the point I was trying to make was in the exact opposite spirit of the word itself. It was arrogant of me to think I could intellectualize using it, because I realize that there's no intellectualizing a word that is so emotionally charged.​Below is the whole race exchange, bolding ours.
He did not say anything on Twitter about his David Duke cock, but Jessica tweeted, "interesting day so far...hmm."

PLAYBOY: If you didn't know you, would you think you're a douche bag? 

MAYER: It depends on what I picked up. My two biggest hits are "Your Body Is a Wonderland" and "Daughters." If you think those songs are pandering, then you'll think I'm a douche bag. It's like I come on very strong. I am a very...I'm just very. V-E-R-Y. And if you can't handle very, then I'm a douche bag. But I think the world needs a little very. That's why black people love me.
PLAYBOY: Because you're very?
MAYER: Someone asked me the other day, "What does it feel like now to have a hood pass?" And by the way, it's sort of a contradiction in terms, because *if you really had a hood pass, you could call it a nigger pass.* Why are you pulling a punch and calling it a hood pass if you really have a hood pass? But I said, "I can't really have a hood pass. I've never walked into a restaurant, asked for a table and been told, 'We're full.'"
Story continues below 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




http://ad.doubleclick.net/click;h=v...plex.com/ad/ck/8975-97247-12872-0?mpt=3960507

PLAYBOY: It is true; a lot of rappers love you. You recorded with Common and Kanye West, played live with Jay-Z.
MAYER: What is being black? It's making the most of your life, not taking a single moment for granted. Taking something that's seen as a struggle and making it work for you, or you'll die inside. Not to say that my struggle is like the collective struggle of black America. But maybe my struggle is similar to one black dude's.
PLAYBOY: Do black women throw themselves at you?
MAYER: I don't think I open myself to it. My dick is sort of like a white supremacist. I've got a Benetton heart and a fuckin' David Duke cock. I'm going to start dating separately from my dick.
PLAYBOY: Let's put some names out there. Let's get specific.
MAYER: I always thought Holly Robinson Peete was gorgeous. Every white dude loved Hilary from The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. And Kerry Washington. She's superhot, and she's also white-girl crazy. Kerry Washington would break your heart like a white girl. Just all of a sudden she'd be like, "Yeah, I sucked his dick. Whatever." And you'd be like, "What? We weren't talking about that."​


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## DOMS (Mar 4, 2010)

The Situation said:


> Its like the racial profiling... my grandfather said it best all these assholes say we profile if 95% of the area your substation(police) is black or mexican .. what do you think the  chances of pulling over someone black or mexican?



You're not getting the point.

It's pretty clear that there have been more white serial killers than any other race and it's okay to say that, but it's supposedly not okay to point out that blacks make up 12% of the population but are responsible for 26% of the crime.


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 4, 2010)

DOMS said:


> You're not getting the point.
> 
> It's pretty clear that there have been more white serial killers than any other race and it's okay to say that, but it's supposedly not okay to point out that blacks make up 12% of the population but are responsible for 26% of the crime.


 

I do get your point I do.. being brown myself..(spanish) i when i was in college i would hear black and brown people saying white people are this or that can't find a job..ect... no they were lazy or didn't want it bad enough or had a bad pesonality/...and if a white person said something bad like nigger spic even though they were called or beaten up the college would always take the black or brown peoples side because they can do no wrong..WTF Asfor stats  heres one most don't know about 24% of the prizon and jail population is here illegally  true fact that a big WTF... how does that happen the other half is mostly black ith asian and whites


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## weldingman (Mar 4, 2010)

*Who gives a flying fuck about black history month? Fuck that shit.*


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## theCaptn' (Mar 5, 2010)

lol @ you fuckers


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## FMJ (Mar 5, 2010)

weldingman said:


> *Who gives a flying fuck about black history month? Fuck that shit.*


 



CaptRichArund said:


> lol @ you fuckers


 
Pipe down you lunk heads!


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## maniclion (Mar 5, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Here's a thought that will screw with your head:
> 
> Look at any race of people in the US; white, black, Hispanic, Arab, or whatever.  Now, compare the way that they live in the US in terms of wealth and crime.  Now compare them to their nations of origin.
> 
> ...


*It usually comes in the form of the domineering mothers, whose religious beliefs make the scorn their child for every little thing, anything the child does wrong is a sin, when he grows up the mother tells him that girls are sinful.....

But it's all really anything that can drive a person away from humanism back to the instinctual animalism deep in our genes...basically emotionally castrated guys who after years of abuse had their humanity suppressed....*

They tend to come from unstable families.
As children, they are typically abandoned by their fathers and raised by domineering mothers.
Their families often have criminal, psychiatric and alcoholic histories.
They were often abused — emotionally, physically and/or sexually — by a family member.
*Doesn't this bit describe most black young men in the ghetto?  Maybe thats why they are prone to senseless violence, there may be a relation between white serial killers and gangsta killers which would negate the whole white men be crazy cause they serial killa's*


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 5, 2010)

weldingman said:


> *Who gives a flying fuck about black history month? Fuck that shit.*


 
the lunk alarm when off you will have to leave the internet..


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## bio-chem (Mar 5, 2010)

DOMS said:


> You're not getting the point.
> 
> It's pretty clear that there have been more white serial killers than any other race and it's okay to say that, but it's supposedly not okay to point out that blacks make up 12% of the population but are responsible for 26% of the crime.



Racist!


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 5, 2010)

here we go


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## bio-chem (Mar 5, 2010)

The Situation said:


> here we go



I feel pretty confident DOMS recognizes my sarcasm


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## DOMS (Mar 5, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> I feel pretty confident DOMS recognizes my sarcasm



That's it!  At the next White Men for World Domination meeting, you're not getting a doughnut.

So there.


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## bio-chem (Mar 5, 2010)

DOMS said:


> That's it!  At the next White Men for World Domination meeting, you're not getting a doughnut.
> 
> So there.





Do I still have to bring them this week?


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 5, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> I feel pretty confident DOMS recognizes my sarcasm


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## theCaptn' (Mar 5, 2010)

racism is the new fur


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## DOMS (Mar 5, 2010)

CaptRichArund said:


> racism is the new fur



It does keep me warm.


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 5, 2010)

CaptRichArund said:


> racism is the new fur


 
black is the new white..


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## bio-chem (Mar 5, 2010)

you need to be banned from using the damn coffee icon. i swear its in every post


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## KelJu (Mar 5, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Here's a thought that will screw with your head:
> 
> Look at any race of people in the US; white, black, Hispanic, Arab, or whatever.  Now, compare the way that they live in the US in terms of wealth and crime.  Now compare them to their nations of origin.
> 
> ...



What is this bullshit! I don't even care enough to show that your wiki pastings are horseshit. Most white American serial killers were religious nuts or were abused by religious nuts. Read the profiles. It's in there. I'm not going to spoon feed you.


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## bio-chem (Mar 5, 2010)

KelJu said:


> What is this bullshit! I don't even care enough to show that your wiki pastings are horseshit. Most white American serial killers were religious nuts or were abused by religious nuts. Read the profiles. It's in there. I'm not going to spoon feed you.



I read the whole profile and quite a few links provided. I've not seen any evidence that that is a common trait for serial killers, or that is part of the reason they become serial killers. the wiki articles were pretty damn informative and similar to other things i have read about serial killers


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## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

KelJu said:


> What is this bullshit! I don't even care enough to show that your wiki pastings are horseshit. Most white American serial killers were religious nuts or were abused by religious nuts. Read the profiles. It's in there. I'm not going to spoon feed you.



Bio's right, you don't know shit about this.  I posted the wiki because it was convenient, but I've spent a shitload of time reading _books_ on the subject.


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## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> I read the whole profile and quite a few links provided. I've not seen any evidence that that is a common trait for serial killers, or that is part of the reason they become serial killers. the wiki articles were pretty damn informative and similar to other things i have read about serial killers



I've even been able to get my hands on a copy of a book written for criminal psychologists.

But I just figured out what the disconnect is for KelJu.  He doesn't seem to know the difference between a _serial killer_ and a _mass murderer_.  Which is probably pretty common.  I'll have to look up mass murders to see if he's accurate.

Back in a few.


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## FMJ (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> He doesn't seem to know the difference between a _serial killer_ and a _mass murderer_.


 
I think it's pretty easy to tell between the two.
Basically, if it's not this, it's not a cereal killer.


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## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

FMJ said:


> I think it's pretty easy to tell between the two.
> Basically, if it's not this, it's not a cereal killer.




Cereal Killer:





.
.
.
.
.
.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

Let's not forget most pedophiles are white

By the way, if you look you'll see that immigrant blacks from African countries like Ghana,etc. ( many of them are able to come here are from elite economic classes) are not the blacks implicated in most violent crimes in this country. Of course, I don't mean the lost boys of sudan and the likes.  It's intersting, most of the blacks at my daughter's exclusive private schools are either children of successful american blacks but a majority are from parents from African Nations whose parents are highly educated and successful.  These kids are not going to commit crimes.

'Im pretty sure that white collar  crimes are committed mostly by whites and violent, poverty crimes are committed mostly by blacks.  So statistically, the rate of crimes is probably the same in both races. The former, you can argue, affects more lives in terms of sheer economic destruction.   I haven't seen a black Enron CEO destroying the lives of a whole  company of employees, but then, there aren't that many black CEOs.  As more blacks rise to prominence we will start seeing more white collar crimes by them as well.

As for illegal drug use, I can definately assure you whites are equally as likely to abuse illegal drugs as blacks ( as my encounters with accidental overdoses in the ER and the narcotic prescription pain seekers ( the latter may be slightly predisposed to  whites because they are more likely to have  insurance and can see a doc)).  I think blacks are disproportionately incarcerated and found guilty for some reason.


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## Saney (Mar 6, 2010)

Everyone is equal, given they are granted exact environments and situations.

Until then, Blacks make the world a worse place!


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## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

So mass murders aren't one of my unusual subjects of study, although serial killers are, so I did a cursory check on the Internet for a connection between mass murders and religion.

I don't find mass murderers as interesting as serial killers.  Mostly because mass murderers don't usually have much forethought and usually only have a single instance where they kill.  However, I find the idea of a connection between mass murder and religion to be interesting.  Which is why I looked it up.

Of course, I have to wonder if KelJu knows that a mass murderer is not always some guy with a gun, or that mass murder happens outside the US.

The results?  

I need to state that the only research for this post is the Internet.  I've only read about mass murderers as an aside in books (or websites) about serial killers.

The first thing I noticed is that there's a big "I know what you are, but what am I?" sort of debate as to whether religion or atheists have committed more mass murder.   Know I think I know what motives KelJu on this topic.

I found a rare unbiased site on the matter, but I must warn you, it's an assault on the eyes.  The site is solely interested in the idea of mass murder and doesn't seem to care about they why, so for the details, you'll need to go to other sites like I did.  I've read others sites, but this is one of the more succinct.  Feel free to find others.

While I find the black on brown color scheme to nauseating, I do like the colorful verbiage.  They describe Pat Sherrill as "The patron saint of all rampaging postal workers."

After reading through the long list, and looking up most of them online, there are some clear patters.

1. Society: being ostracized seems to take its toll.
2. Revenge:  such as getting back at those who fired them.
3. Family: can drive you crazy, apparently.
4. Mental Disabilities: not surprisingly, being mentally unbalanced can end badly.
5. Money: the loss or acquisition of.

The only big role that religion played in that list was a Jewish guy who walked into a Mosque in Israel and gunned down some Muslims.  There's no surprise there.

The connection between religion and mass murder seems to be limited to the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, and Salem Witch Trials.  Those sorts of events.  The idea that mass murderers are predominantly motivated by religion is erroneous.

I did keep the scope on focused on individuals and not organizations so far.  The funny thing is the absolute most prolific killers of the 20th century were:

1. Mao Ze-Dong, 49-78,000,000
2. Jozef Stalin, 23,000,000 (the purges plus Ukraine's famine)
3. Adolf Hitler, 12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians WWII)

Both Mao and Jozef were atheists, and the argument for Hitler being an atheist is still up in the air.  Read the rest of the list, a lot of the other top contenders were atheists (Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung, etc.).  Even when a mass murderer of this sort was religious, the reason usually came down to race or seizing wealth.

Short version: KelJu is wrong.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Let's not forget most pedophiles are white



Such great reasoning.  Tell that to the South Africans where the worst pandemic of rape on 3-12 girls is taking place.



bandaidwoman said:


> I think blacks are disproportionately incarcerated and found guilty for some reason.



This was the same stance you took in the last time we covered this topic.  As a matter of fact, you were one of the people who got butt hurt when I pointed out these facts and who completely ignored the racial implications of my saying that whites are more likely to be serial killers even though I provided no proof.

"For some reason"...

Black are also incarcerated more than per capita in Atlanta because of all the white cops, white juries, and white judges.  Oh, wait, they're not white, they're black, but there are still a disproportionate amounts of blacks in Atlanta's jails.  Go figure...


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Let's not forget most pedophiles are white
> 
> By the way, if you look you'll see that immigrant blacks from African countries like Ghana,etc. ( many of them are able to come here are from elite economic classes) are not the blacks implicated in most violent crimes in this country. Of course, I don't mean the lost boys of sudan and the likes.  It's intersting, most of the blacks at my daughter's exclusive private schools are either children of successful american blacks but a majority are from parents from African Nations whose parents are highly educated and successful.  These kids are not going to commit crimes.
> 
> ...


im going to need published statistics for anything you say, or I'm just not going to accept it as true. the only evidence you ever give is your own biased opinion, and that just doesn't fly when you enter these discussions


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Such great reasoning.  Tell that to the South Africans where the worst pandemic of rape on 3-12 girls is taking place.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



give it to her DOMS. none of the stuff she is posting sounds legit to me


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> give it to her DOMS. none of the stuff she is posting sounds legit to me



I get the impression that she's not white, which puts her in the minority category.  That in turn explains her stance, and I can appreciate that.  She's usually pretty good at posting sources for any point that she makes, with the exception of topics related to race.  She has too much of an emotional stake in it.

The idea that there are more white pedophiles than any other race is one that she can't back up with any credible source.  Especially when you're talking about the entire world.

Hell, in south-east Asia, there's a sex slave trade that is estimated to have 300,000 women and children in its system [source].

In short, don't expect too many *credible *sources for this topic from banaidwoman.


----------



## DaMayor (Mar 6, 2010)




----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

Wow you guys don't pass up a chance to demean people different from you do you. I sense ego issues


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> Wow you guys don't pass up a chance to demean people different from you do you. I sense ego issues



And you'd be wrong.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS you're the worst of the lot


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

Too much truth?


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

The whole truth is different from your "truths" that you just pick out to suit your claims 

Have a good day babes


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

Babes?  Tell me that's a typo.

So, what is the whole truth?


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

So you want data

lets start with the illegal drug use, both whites and blacks use it equally but hey, blacks really do get imprisoned more often.gee..

Black Americans Ten Times More Likely to be Incarcerated For Drug Use Than Whites



> ustice Policy Institute.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

Case control study done by.... doctors ! reagarding white collar crime

A Case Control Study: White-Collar Defendants Compared With Defendants Charged With Other Nonviolent Theft -- Poortinga et al. 34 (1): 82 -- Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law Online

common sense guys, its called biased selection, more white people are in upper white collar jobs, so statistically more whites are committing white collar crimes in this country and south africa.

Go to Nigeria, well hell, hardly any blacks so the blacks in that country now comprise the white collar criminals, duh.

or how about this one

http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/37/4/538



> ......They were more likely to have been employed, to have attained a higher educational level, to be* male, white, and older*



Of course, as we women attain high levels of power we will comprise more and more of the white collar criminals as well.  I'm not being sexist.

dont forget your talking to a god damn scientist

By the way can anyone offer up why asians commit 1/4 the crime of whites in this country?  It's not like we can't look the Japanese rape programs In Nanking, or Pol Pot's Killing fields?


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> So you want data
> 
> lets start with the illegal drug use, both whites and blacks use it equally but hey, blacks really do get imprisoned more often.gee..
> 
> Black Americans Ten Times More Likely to be Incarcerated For Drug Use Than Whites



Ah, Justice Policy Institute.  The so-called research group that makes it clear they have an agenda in every bit of "research" they do.  They even go so far as using inflammatory language in their reports (I read the one on gangs), and I supposed to take them seriously?

Also, do you even read the crap you linked to?  You're simply regurgitating them, who in turn regurgitate JPI, _without linking to the study_.  There's nothing of substance there.

Does the so-called study talk about the entire circumstances surrounding arrest related to drugs?  It's one thing to get busted buying pot from an undercover agent, and it's something else entirely when you're busted selling drugs and you're a repeat offender, a dealer, on parole, or carry a gun.  Is that sort of thing covered in the study?  I don't know because your article doesn't discuss it or link to it.



> as for pedophiles, ask any fbi profiler it is mostly whites in this country. Why is that?I I never said there was no child rape in Africa, as a feminist I am aware of the mysogyny in africa.



Nice bit of non-fact.

You do realize that the FBI doesn't use a profiler in pedophile cases unless it's a serial killer or a serial abductor, right?   So your statement makes little sense.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Case control study done by.... doctors ! reagarding white collar crime
> 
> A Case Control Study: White-Collar Defendants Compared With Defendants Charged With Other Nonviolent Theft -- Poortinga et al. 34 (1): 82 -- Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law Online
> 
> ...



So, Ms. Scientist, what's the point of this babbling?  I've made no mention as to the types of crimes, just the amount committed per capita and how black commit crimes on a scale about it.  How does any of that relate to what you just wrote?

Also, what sort of scientist are you that's supposed to buy you credit?  A psychologist?  A criminologist?  A sociologist?  What?



bandaidwoman said:


> By the way can anyone offer up why asians commit 1/4 the crime of whites in this country?  It's not like we can't look the Japanese rape programs In Nanking, or Pol Pot's Killing fields?



Facts?


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

I  just showed you data that more *white collar crimes were commited mostly  by whites *using good epidemiological data that most doctors are used to analyzing,

You asked me for data for that so I showed you.

Oh so  maybe you would like bill oreilly as data for the pedophiles in this country since any medical epidemiology data I show does not sway you

according to him
the FBI says 80% of all pedophiles are white

you seem like the bill o'reilly type

YouTube - according to FBI 80% of pedophiles are nonhispanic white men

Yeah don't believe me, but you might believe your right wing counterparts


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

There are reams of data that illegal drug use is equally abused by whites vs blacks. You want primary data so you can analyze the data collection like I do ?

How about 
of this journal also provided excellent editorial support.
1. See, e.g., MICHAEL TONRY, MALIGN NEGLECT: RACE CRIME, AND PUNISHMENT IN
AMERICA 107–109 (1995) (summarizing survey data showing that whites are more likely to have used
cocaine, marijuana, hallucinogens, and alcohol than African Americans).

You WANTED GODAMN PRIMARY DATA RATHER THAN TAKING THE WORD OF A  ORGANIZATION AND I SHOWED YOU GODDAMN PRIMARY DATA THAT WHITES COMMIT MORE WHITE COLLAR CRIME THAN BLACKS. SO WHAT THE HELL DO YOU HAVE TO OFFER


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> I  just showed you data that more white collar crimes were commited by whites using good epidemiological data that most doctors are used to analyzing,



And, like I said, what's the point?  What does this have to do with the amount of crime by each race?  



bandaidwoman said:


> Oh so  maybe you would like bill oreilly as data for the pedophiles in this country since any medical epidemiology data I show does not sway you



Oh, so since I don't believe the non-facts you've posted, I must believe in some political talking head?  



bandaidwoman said:


> according to him
> the FBI says 80% of all pedophiles are white
> 
> you seem like the bill o'reilly type
> ...



Did you even watch the video?  I watched it twice to make sure that I didn't miss something.  The only thing that said "according to FBI 80% of pedophiles are nonhispanic white men" was the YouTube title of the video.  The video itself only has Bill O'Reilly (I'm assuming) saying that some sick perverted guy made a website telling guys how to ensnare young girls and then has a bit where the sick fuck talks for a while.  No where in the video are any numbers even mentioned.   

What did you do?  Make a claim, were unable to back it up, go to Google and search for anything that would back you up, was sent to YouTube, and then posted that without watching it?  Is that how it went down?

Another laughable link.

I'll also point out that you've done nothing to refute any fact I've posted, you've only tried, and failed, to pull a red herring.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

Lol you fuckers (especially DOMS ) and your theories on why black people are bad. It's your fault for bringing them there lets not forget. Not that they are bad, it's just that there's alot of racial stereotyping. If you did psychology anywhere past A-level you will know that most of the stigma they get is from stereotyping.

Peace out homos


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

maniclion said:


> *It usually comes in the form of the domineering mothers, whose religious beliefs make the scorn their child for every little thing, anything the child does wrong is a sin, when he grows up the mother tells him that girls are sinful.....
> 
> But it's all really anything that can drive a person away from humanism back to the instinctual animalism deep in our genes...basically emotionally castrated guys who after years of abuse had their humanity suppressed....*
> 
> ...



Hahahaha.... this site really does bring a tear to my eye :')


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

Oh wait. I'm 3/4 black. I should be out there mugging an old lady, raping a young woman or poppin some caps in some ass. I'm really letting my race down these days.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> There are reams of data that illegal drug use is equally abused by whites vs blacks. You want primary data so you can analyze the data collection like I do ?
> 
> How about
> of this journal also provided excellent editorial support.
> ...



I'm not asking, though I don't mind, primary data.  I'm looking for a credible summary of the data.  But if you want to post primary data, do so, but you'll either need to post the study or link to it.  Just posting the citation isn't enough.  Because I can do that to:

How about 
of this journal also provided excellent editorial support.
1. See, e.g., SOME GUY, RUNNING WITH SCISSORS GOOD FOR YOU
AMERICA 164???211 (1999) (summarizing survey data showing that running with scissors created new and interesting fashions).

So, by throwing up the red herring of convictions, drug use, and race; are you trying to allude that blacks are just picked on?  Because Atlanta clearly refutes that idea.


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> And, like I said, what's the point?  What does this have to do with the amount of crime by each race?



My original post said if you group white collar and violent impoverished crime both races probably commit crimes at an equal rate. I'm sorry but a ghetto black is less likely to have the resources to commit health insurance fraud than a upper middle class white  That is all I am saying.  Crime is a opportunistic , if the closest thing to getting cash is to hold up a lliquore store with a gun vs. using 5000 dollar computer software engineering to inflitrate a bank come on....




> Oh, so since I don't believe the non-facts you've posted, I must believe in some political talking head?



I gave you epidemiologica data facts why dont you go to the bureau of judicial statistic and look up pedophile statitics


as for pedophiles in this country being  mostly whites, any idiot can look up fbi fact sheets so that even a right wing idiot like bill o'reilly can figure that out , I figured he would have tried to pin it on the blacks.

*Do you hate blacks so much you can't stomach the fact that whites are culpable for a majority of the most hated and vile crime of pedohilia?*


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> Lol you fuckers (especially DOMS ) and your theories on why black people are bad. It's your fault for bringing them there lets not forget. Not that they are bad, it's just that there's alot of racial stereotyping. If you did psychology anywhere past A-level you will know that most of the stigma they get is from stereotyping.
> 
> Peace out homos



A hearty fuck you, too.

Of course I know that whites brought them here, after buying them from other blacks.

So, blacks are just poor victims?  Is that the tact you're trying to take?


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> Oh wait. I'm 3/4 black. I should be out there mugging an old lady, raping a young woman or poppin some caps in some ass. I'm really letting my race down these days.



I figured as much.  What's really funny is that if I showed your picture to an American with the similar mindset as bandaidwomen, they'd call you an African-American.


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> I'm not asking, though I don't mind, primary data.  I'm looking for a credible summary of the data.  But if you want to post primary data, do so, but you'll either need to post the study or link to it.  Just posting the citation isn't enough.  Because I can do that to:
> 
> How about
> of this journal also provided excellent editorial support.
> ...



The primary data i showed you was nation wide, how blacks despite using illegal drugs to the same degree as whites, are incarcerated more. Where the hell did I talk about atlanta, I'm talking about the whole godamn country !


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> My original post said if you group white collar and violent impoverished crime both races probably commit crimes at an equal rate. I'm sorry but a ghetto black is less likely to have the resources to commit health insurance fraud than a upper middle class white  That is all I am saying.  Crime is a opportunistic , if the closest thing to getting cash is to hold up a lliquore store with a gun vs. using 5000 dollar computer software engineering to inflitrate a bank come on....




Which has, as I've said twice before, nothing whatsoever to do with the per capita crime rate by race.  None.  Nada.  Zilch.  Zero.  Get it?

I'm talking about the absolute amount of crime committed by people of a certain race compared to the percentage of the population.  I make no distinction between violent and non-violent crime, or blue and white collar crime.  You're "point" has no bearing on this.



bandaidwoman said:


> I gave you epidemiologica data facts why dont you go to the bureau of judicial statistic and look up pedophile statitics



So you've made claim relating to medicine and crime.  So what?  You've linked to absolutely nothing of substance so far.




bandaidwoman said:


> as for pedophiles in this country being  mostly whites, any idiot can look up fbi fact sheets so that even a right wing idiot like bill o'reilly can figure that out , I figured he would have tried to pin it on the blacks.



If you're talking about absolute numbers, then yes, I'd say your opinion (because you've provided no facts thus far) is correct, due to the simple fact that white make about about 80% of the population.  But if you're talking about per captia numbers, you're going to need to provide a source.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> The primary data i showed you was nation wide, how blacks despite using illegal drugs to the same degree as whites, are incarcerated more. Where the hell did I talk about atlanta, I'm talking about the whole godamn country !



You didn't provide any facts.  All you did was link to a article that quoted, very short on details, a report that they didn't link to.  You also ignored my simple question of what additional, if any, other offenses were connected with the charge of drug use.  I had to ask you because your link didn't discuss any of that.

Listen, if you can show me that the facts as I've seen them are incorrect, I'll immediately change my stance and even apologize for upsetting you.


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

you wanted facts on us asians, we commit less crime with the exception of gambling and here is a whole boat load of statistics from the federal beaureau of statistics

so explain, why asians commit the  least amount of crime in this country? We are just as ruthless and vicious in our home countries


http://www.arthurhu.com/index/acrime.htm#prison>Prisons</a><li><a href=


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> So you've made claim relating to medicine and crime.  So what?  You've linked to absolutely nothing of substance so far.



 no what I showed you was epidemiological data, vastly superior and not just used by those of us in medicine!  Sociologists, anthropologists, economists use for gods sake, but I think research doctors are most adept at reading it. 


regarding pedophilia

If





> you're talking about absolute numbers, then yes, I'd say your opinion due that white make about about 80% of the population.  But if you're talking about per captia numbers, you're going to need to provide a source.




Do your realize you support what i am saying, 

 Since the majority of the folks in this country are white, a  majority are going to commit pedophilia,

since a majority of the blacks are more impoverished and live violent neighborhoods a majority of blacks are going to commit more violent crimes, 

a majority of white collar crimes are by whites because whites are less impoverished and  have access to the sophisticated costly tools needed to commit white collar crimes


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> A hearty fuck you, too.
> 
> Of course I know that whites brought them here, after buying them from other blacks.
> 
> So, blacks are just poor victims?  Is that the tact you're trying to take?



never mind the fact that any shit they have to deal with in the ghetto is way better than sub-Saharan Africa right now, or has ever been.


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

More facts, w*hen I said whites were more likely to abuse prescription drugs than *blacks ( by sheer viritue of  having greater access to doctors like rush limbaugh)

from the department of humnan resources

Ch 2: Misuse of Presc. Rx: Data from 2k2, 2k3, & 2k4 NSDUH, SAMHSA, Office of Applied Studies
and please "non hispanic whites " are not whites?  That's because there are a lot of latinos that look very  white ( chileans, brazillians, uppper class mexicans descended from the spanish conquistators etc, they consider themselves white and proudly latino )so it essentially left with  american, canadian whites.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> never mind the fact that any shit they have to deal with in the ghetto is way better than sub-Saharan Africa right now, or has ever been.



You really don't have a clue. That's one of the most uneducated statements I've ever heard. You have no experience in either, how can you make a comparisson?

But it's okay DOMS, just come out and say you're racist. I cant afford a gun to shoot you, because I'm black duh, when you do admit it. I won't bite 

Btw for those of you wondering, yes this computer is stolen and I'm tapping the next door neighbour's internet because I'm a typical dishonest black guy and all the money I steal goes towards drugs and bitches mayne. Hey wait. I steal the drugs and rape the hoes I don't need to pay for shit.

Well it's nighttime here. Gotta do what a black man gotta do.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> you wanted facts on us asians, we commit less crime with the exception of gambling and here is a whole boat load of statistics from the federal beaureau of statistics
> 
> so explain, why asians commit the  least amount of crime in this country? We are just as ruthless and vicious in our home countries
> 
> ...



That data is badly formatted, which makes it unclear.  Also, the two links it has, which I assume are suppose to provide credibility, link back to home pages, but not supporting data.

It appears that the summary table weights the data on whites.  Which is why, for the most part, "white" has a value of 1.  If "W" is white, then does that mean that "B" is for black, "H" is Hispanic, and "A" for Asian?  If so, then the summary does not support the claim made the creator of the page, because, with only one exception, "A" has a higher value than "W".  

A section of the table is titled "Asians better than average", but shows Asians having a value greater than 1.  The assumption then is that values of greater than 1 is somehow a good thing.  The problem with that is that blacks also have values greater than 1.   So it the table also trying to say that black commit less crimes than whites?

Also, in the category of "Klan Watch US Hate CrS.", Asians and Hispanics have a value of zero and no value, respectively.  The strange thing is that blacks have a value of 6.3!  It's not a category of victimization, so how is it that blacks are 6.3 times more likely to be members of the Klan (white have a value of 1?  Affirmative Action gone too far?

That data is _*highly *_suspect and don't seem to backup the initial claim.  I also can't help but notice the site is AurthrWu.com.  

Do you have another link?

On a side note: I think that Mr. Wu's needs to learn about CSS.

Oddly, though I have no data to back it up, I've held the suspicion that Asians (of the non-Indiam type) commit crime only of a per capita amount or less.  So yes, I'd really like to see a better link please.


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> never mind the fact that any shit they have to deal with in the ghetto is way better than sub-Saharan Africa right now, or has ever been.



You realize they used this argument during segregation and south africa? ... Hey, why do you ungrateful  black folks care about segregation or arpatheid, we whites rescued you from yourselves goddamn it!


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> You really don't have a clue. That's one of the most uneducated statements I've ever heard. You have no experience in either, how can you make a comparisson?
> 
> But it's okay DOMS, just come out and say you're racist. I cant afford a gun to shoot you, because I'm black duh, when you do admit it. I won't bite
> 
> ...



I'm not DOMS dumb ass. and you have no idea how much time i've spent either in the ghetto, or in Africa. You are right though, i've never been to Africa. but i don't think i need to be there to know how high the rate of Aids is, or to believe the stories coming out of Darfur. Then again my friend from Namibia has spoken about some of the stuff he grew up seeing. 

If you want to argue with my statement that blacks in the US have it better than blacks in Africa go right ahead. It will only further prove you're an idiot not worth listening to though.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Do your realize you support what i am saying,
> 
> Since the majority of the folks in this country are white, a  majority are going to commit pedophilia,
> 
> ...



I kind of get you...the problem is that you're throwing in "violent."  You're saying that blacks commit more crime because they're poor. So what we'd really need it a study of crime committed by race at or below the poverty level.

That sound reasonable.  Do you have access to that sort of data?


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> You realize they used this argument during segregation and south africa? ... Hey, why do you ungrateful  black folks care about segregation or arpatheid, we whites rescued you from yourselves goddamn it!



im not arguing for segregation or apartheid, so you can shove it trying to compare me to that


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> You realize they used this argument during segregation and south africa? ... Hey, why do you ungrateful  black folks care about segregation or arpatheid, we whites rescued you from yourselves goddamn it!



This is a whole other topic, but have you seen what's happened to Africa since the Europeans left?

If you're going to try to bolster the opinion of blacks, you really shouldn't delve into Africa.


----------



## Glycomann (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> no what I showed you was epidemiological data, vastly superior and not just used by those of us in medicine!  Sociologists, anthropologists, economists use for gods sake, but I think research doctors are most adept at reading it.
> 
> 
> regarding pedophilia
> ...


Whose fault is it that more of them have not lifted themselves out of that poverty like my Italian family? You know when my and my wife's  grand- and great grand parents came over here from Italy they put them right back on a boat to fight in WWI and WWII.  They came right back and worked like dogs in poverty while making a better life for their children.  Now 3 and 4 generations later our families are loaded with successful members some of which are doctors, engineers and teachers. WE have even 2 Rhodes Scholars. When our families got here  we were treated like dirty fascists.  They worked their asses off like the Mexicans do today.  Nobody gave them a hand out.  They busted their balls until they were successful then busted their balls some more. No one has to remain in poverty.  You work your ass off even when someone calls you a damn dirty dago or a slant eyed pan face or a dirty ape.

That aside, I have no problem with Black History Month.  The idea is uplifting and tells our black brothers that they can succeed in the face of tremendous obstacles.  I know many successful Black Americans. Anyone can succeed. It's a mater of finding one's abilities and talents and the rest is working your ass off.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> But it's okay DOMS, just come out and say you're racist. I cant afford a gun to shoot you, because I'm black duh, when you do admit it. I won't bite



You live in the UK, it's knives for you.

I've never hid my racist beliefs.   I've also never hid that they're based in facts, not ideologies.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> im not arguing for segregation or apartheid, so you can shove it trying to compare me to that



Africa Fact: 8% of the Niger population are black slaves owned by other blacks.


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Africa Fact: 8% of the Niger population are black slaves owned by other blacks.



You know damn well facts don't belong in this discussion

half truths and fallacies are all that will be accepted in here. this is your one warning. next time


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

GeoLytics - US Census demographic and GIS data products

good site for demographics of all the stuff we tallked about, had to subscribe to it


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> You know damn well facts don't belong in this discussion
> 
> half truths and fallacies are all that will be accepted in here. this is your one warning. next time


I always rise to the challenge. 

Africa is the number one place for slavery.  In addition to Niger, a lot of pygmies in the Congo are owned by the Bantu.  Families of the pygmies are owned by Bantu families.  Forever.


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> I always rise to the challenge.
> 
> Africa is the number one place for slavery.  In addition to Niger, a lot of pygmies in the Congo are owned by the Bantu.  Families of the pygmies are owned by Bantu families.  Forever.



and slavery is thriving nicely in america too except we give it the P R name 
"Human trafficking"  ooh,must be so much better than slavery!

yeah, both whites and blacks engage in slavery, should we tell eastern women discriminated in african countries that their plight is better than their plight in america where this crime is an epidemic against them?


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

Glycomann said:


> Whose fault is it that more of them have not lifted themselves out of that poverty like my Italian family?



Here is the differance:

when my black male partner ( AOA from medical school (  means top 6 graduating) PHd in chemical engineering walks into my patient's room to check up on her, she thinks he is a janitor who has no business listining to her lungs and heart despite his white coat.( i can't tell you how many times this has happened). An Italian doctor is not going to be called a janitor by this white woman from Georgia.  When he and I walk from the hospital together to the parking deck  , the rotatating contractual security gaurds will stop  him and ask him for his identification.  Funny,  my german and jewish partners don't seem to get that.  What do you think happens in lower levels of business establishments? 



> That aside, I have no problem with Black History Month.  The idea is uplifting and tells our black brothers that they can succeed in the face of tremendous obstacles.  I know many successful Black Americans. Anyone can succeed. It's a mater of finding one's abilities and talents and the rest is working your ass off.



we can definately agree on that!


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> and slavery is thriving nicely in america too except we give it the P R name
> "Human trafficking"  ooh,must be so much better than slavery



Really?  You're really going to try to insinuate that large scale slavery goes on in the US?  And that it's some how comparable to what's going on in Africa?

Are you that deluded?


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Really?  You're really going to try to insinuate that large scale slavery goes on in the US?  And that it's some how comparable to what's going on in Africa?
> 
> Are you that deluded?



I am not deluded , quite the contrary, well informed....

OpEdNews - Article: Modern Slavery in America

I don't think you realize the epidemic or scale of human trafficking in this country, your western media just gives it the pretty  name "trafficking"..

and logically, what has that got to do with blacks being impoverished in the greatest country on earth, we are above the african nations?. By the way, quiet a few of them have outlawed slavery, like america, if it exists they  have the guts to call it what it is slavery, not human trafficking.....

Welcome to the United States / ISN

I still get newspapers from my home country Taiwan, they make fun of americans for pointing fingers at "evil doers" and claim to end slavery when human trafficking is an epidemic here.  ( they did a story due to the asian women being highly covetted in this market) Their version of 20/20 did a fantastic show on it ( all in chinese) and the interesting thing pointed out was that human traffickers thrive in countries that are completely ignorant and turns a blind eye to this ....sound familliar?


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## Glycomann (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Here is the differance:
> 
> when my black male partner ( AOA from medical school (  means top 6 graduating) PHd in chemical engineering walks into my patient's room to check up on her, she thinks he is a janitor who has no business listining to her lungs and heart despite his white coat.( i can't tell you how many times this has happened). An Italian doctor is not going to be called a janitor by this white woman from Georgia.  When he and I walk from the hospital together to the parking deck  , the rotatating contractual security gaurds will stop  him and ask him for his identification.  Funny,  my german and jewish partners don't seem to get that.  What do you think happens in lower levels of business establishments?
> 
> ...



Congratulations to both of you for rising to the top.  I'm sure your partner can speak up and instantly let it be known that he is not a janitor.  As more Black Americans rise from their own dire situations such incidences will happen less and less.  Just remember my grandparents were shit on pretty bad.  Your comparison was made to show me that your current pain is more than what was their pain.  I don't have sympathy for those who diminish others accomplishments but I can certainly understand your frustration given the tone of this thread. This shouldn't be a competition for those who suffer more.  It should be a competition for who succeeds in life. It is an unfortunate aspect of the human situation that all peoples are tribal.  We naturally pit against one another based on perceived differences.  The longer we live and work together the more those tribal traits fall away as we essentially become one tribe.


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## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> I don't think you realize the epidemic or scale of human trafficking in this country, your western media just gives it the pretty  name "trafficking"..



Bullshit.  My information about slavery comes from a body at the UN.  And the UN loves to hate on the US, but even they can't come up with any appreciable sort of slavery.  I'm researching it for a reason that has nothing to with this thread.

The only thing that comes close to slavery on any but the most minuscule scale in the USA is indentured servitude.  Mostly Mexicans that pay to get into the USA and then get paid subsistence to work on farms.  But even that number is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent.  Or are you going to try to getting paid less that minimum wage as slavery?

The slavery that I pointed out is outright _owning _of another person, and it happens no where as much as it does in Africa, seconded by China.

You're some sort of minority and you try so hard to create equality in all things by deluding yourself.  The western world sits at the top of the world in terms of just about everything.  Or, to paraphase Tony Blair, how many people are trying to get into, or out of, China?  Zimbabwe?


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

Glycomann said:


> Congratulations to both of you for rising to the top.  I'm sure your partner can speak up and instantly let it be known that he is not a janitor.  As more Black Americans rise from their own dire situations such incidences will happen less and less.  Just remember my grandparents were shit on pretty bad.  Your comparison was made to show me that your current pain is more than what was their pain.  I don't have sympathy for those who diminish others accomplishments but I can certainly understand your frustration given the tone of this thread. This shouldn't be a competition for those who suffer more.  It should be a competition for who succeeds in life. It is an unfortunate aspect of the human situation that all peoples are tribal.  We naturally pit against one another based on perceived differences.  The longer we live and work together the more those tribal traits fall away as we essentially become one tribe.



I was not diminishing your grandparent's pain but honestly, an italian with a perfect american accent isn't going to get the shit an immigrant italian with a thick accent will get.  A black with a perfect american accent ... most southern whites still can't look past the skin color, that is all.  


as for DOMS 
All I am showing is that blacks and whites are culpable of base acts, slavery by both, except western propaganda mitigates culpable acts , equivalent to the religious propaganda that the serbian christian slaughter of muslim bosnians was only "ethnic cleansing"  For gods sake people:

Human trafficking = slavery and both african and white nations are culpable

Ethnic cleansing carried out by one religious group to systematically wipe out another =religious warfare!

Do you guys have no idea how much propaganda is in this country!


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Bullshit.  My information about slavery comes from a body at the UN.  And the UN loves to hate on the US, but even they can't come up with any appreciable sort of slavery.  I'm researching it for a reason that has nothing to with this thread.
> 
> The only thing that comes close to slavery on any but the most minuscule scale in the USA is indentured servitude.  Mostly Mexicans that pay to get into the USA and then get paid subsistence to work on farms.  But even that number is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent.  Or are you going to try to getting paid less that minimum wage as slavery?
> 
> ...




We can both agree that america is the greatest nation on earth with china the greatest longest living empire on earth ( I am a dual citizen afterall and travel freely between the two)

But remember, africans owned slaves, europeans owned slaves, africans had a civilization that rivalled ancient mexicans , both conquored and colonized by europeans, both went down hill, much of the  mess we see are the aftermath of coloniazation. A*merica is one of the few countries that did not see a long colonial period.  *Look at India, their rise to world power is finally fulfilling the natural innate talents of its citizens once they were no longer the second class citizens of the english. 


Look at Iraq, if Winston Churchill had not  ignored an american missionary who advised against drawing an artificiall border around the KUrds, shiites and sunnis ( who  each had their own territory under the Ottamans) we wouldn't be seeing the slug fest in that country amongs the three warring tribes...

and watch what you say about china, our children will probably one day be mostly working for chinese businesses here or abroad.  They are buying up Atlanta like there is no tomorrow..

by the way, you do reallized the human trafficking in this isn't just mexicans, it's prostituteion of east european and asian women and get this.... child labor!!!!


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## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> I am not deluded , quite the contrary, well informed....
> 
> OpEdNews - Article: Modern Slavery in America
> 
> I don't think you realize the epidemic or scale of human trafficking in this country, your western media just gives it the pretty  name "trafficking"..



I've already read that.  It was originally published by someone at US Berkley. It's sensationalist garbage.  You notice that they never provide numbers for the amount of "slaves" in the US, and only do so for the global scale?  That's because the number aren't high enough to be _scary_.  So they make those accusations and the jump immediately to the global scale so muddy the issue.  Then they jump back down to country level and talk never give numbers, only percentages based on some mythological number of total slaves in the US that they never provide.



bandaidwoman said:


> I still get newspapers from my home country Taiwan, they make fun of americans for pointing fingers at "evil doers" and claim to end slavery when human trafficking is an epidemic here?



They say it because it makes them feel better about themselves.  The big bad Americans are evil!  So see, we're better than them!"  I've read article after article, from sources in and out of the USA, and those that claim that slavery is running rampant here never, _*ever*_, give a number.  They don't because it's an almost non-existent number.

When any form of slavery is discovered here, no  matter how few people are involved, law enforcement and activist groups are all over it.

So the claim that slavery is bad is the US is just something people with low self esteem say to make themselves feel better.  The US has its problems, but slavery isn't one of them.


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## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> We can both agree that america is the greatest nation on earth with china the greatest longest living empire on earth ( I am a dual citizen afterall and travel freely between the two)



I want to point out that I really, really like the Chinese and their culture.  If I wasn't Christian, I'd be Buddhist.  Hell, I practice mindfulness meditation every day.  I can even say "I love you" in Mandarin.  



bandaidwoman said:


> But remember, africans owned slaves, europeans owned slaves, africans had a civilization that rivalled ancient mexicans , both conquored and colonized by europeans, both went down hill, much of the  mess we see are the aftermath of coloniazation. A*merica is one of the few countries that did not see a long colonial period.  *Look at India, their rise to world power is finally fulfilling the natural innate talents of its citizens once they were no longer the second class citizens of the english.



The saddest story in Africa is Zimbabwe.  After the Europeans left, almost every country in Africa went nuts and violent.  But not Zimbabwe.  They picked up where the European left off and even made advancements.  Then they made one single mistake.  They elected Robert Mugabe.  In 20 years he's destroyed the country.  Just look at the adults over the age of 30.  They live in some of the worst poverty in Africa, but have white, straight teeth.  I mean perfect teeth.  It means that they grew up in a very prosperous, dignified, society and had it all taken away.

Robert Mugabe needs to die.  Now.


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## Glycomann (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> I was not diminishing your grandparent's pain but honestly, an italian with a perfect american accent isn't going to get the shit an immigrant italian with a thick accent will get.  A black with a perfect american accent ... most southern whites still can't look past the skin color, that is all.
> 
> 
> as for DOMS
> ...



Again you diminish.  I don't think you are capable of understanding my point as you are locked into your bitterness.  You've lost an ally. I'm done in this thread.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> I want to point out that I really, really like the Chinese and their culture.  If I wasn't Christian, I'd be Buddhist.  Hell, I practice mindfulness meditation every day.  I can even say "I love you" in Mandarin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i would kill robert mugabe if i could, we both are on the same boat.  Now I am not going to say it is fact,and won't claim to be  but if I recall, when the europeans left, africa, unllike america, they had deprived the africans of basic tools to self govern, deprived them of schoolling and basic literacy, maybe I am wrong so you can correct me.  I think that was what made the english coloniailization of  india more humane, I think they left that infrastructure more intact and already accessible by the Indians, and it was a peaceful transition led by Ghandi, whereas I think violence characterized the end of european colonialism in africa, I may be wrong but it is a vague memory from internationl history.


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## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> and slavery is thriving nicely in america too except we give it the P R name
> "Human trafficking"  ooh,must be so much better than slavery!
> 
> yeah, both whites and blacks engage in slavery, should we tell eastern women discriminated in african countries that their plight is better than their plight in america where this crime is an epidemic against them?



you're comparing something that is illegal here in the states (human trafficking), something the government is actively against compared to the atrocities being perpetrated by the governments in Africa? you my dear have lost it.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

Glycomann said:


> Again you diminish.  I don't think you are capable of understanding my point as you are locked into your bitterness.  You've lost an ally. I'm done in this thread.




I'm sorry you felt that way, perhaps I could not convey it appropriatly since I still struggle with engllish, I am not bitter, I am actually having fun.  And belive me I do not mean to diminsh any immigrant's experience here as I am one myself.


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## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Do you guys have no idea how much propaganda is in this country!



um, what? 

this starts out a question, and ends as a statement. care to try again?


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> you're comparing something that is illegal here in the states (human trafficking), something the government is actively against compared to the atrocities being perpetrated by the governments in Africa? you my dear have lost it.




fact check lets start with nigeria, their constitutioin forbids slavery, slavery exists despite strict enforcement laws, american constitution forbids slavery, slavery exists despite a better government and laws, but wait...its human trafficking. lets call it what it is.


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## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> i would kill robert mugabe if i could, we both are on the same boat.  Now I am not going to say it is fact,and won't claim to be  but if I recall, when the europeans left, africa, unllike america, they had deprived the africans of basic tools to self govern, deprived them of schoolling and basic literacy, maybe I am wrong so you can correct me.  I think that was what made the english coloniailization of  india more humane, I think they left that infrastructure more intact and already accessible by the Indians, and it was a peaceful transition led by Ghandi, whereas I think violence characterized the end of european colonialism in africa, I may be wrong but it is a vague memory from internationl history.



my understanding is that violence led to europeans leaving the US as well


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## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> fact check lets start with nigeria, their constitutioin forbids slavery, slavery exists despite strict enforcement laws, american constitution forbids slavery, slavery exists despite a better government and laws, but wait...its human trafficking. lets call it what it is.



these laws in Nigeria, are the laws for strict enforcement, or are they strictly enforced? DOMS has already responded to this utterly bogus accusation, but let me reiterate. show me where the US government has turned a blind eye to this matter. human sex trafficking does in fact happen here in the US. care to show an instance where the government, or people as a whole have turned a blind eye to this matter? does the FBI not actively pursue these rings? do we not prosecute them as quickly as they are found?

Comparing the two situations whatever you want to call them will easily show the large discrepancies between the US and Africa, or Asia in these matters.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> my understanding is that violence led to europeans leaving the US as well




americans owned land, went to school, became literate etc etc, do you think the black africans were afforded the same privlige?  America's natural resources allows us to recover quickly from wartime devastation, how many desert, drought ridden countrie's allow the same?


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## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> i would kill robert mugabe if i could, we both are on the same boat.  Now I am not going to say it is fact,and won't claim to be  but if I recall, when the europeans left, africa, unllike america, they had deprived the africans of basic tools to self govern, deprived them of schoolling and basic literacy, maybe I am wrong so you can correct me.  I think that was what made the english coloniailization of  india more humane, I think they left that infrastructure more intact and already accessible by the Indians, and it was a peaceful transition led by Ghandi, whereas I think violence characterized the end of european colonialism in africa, I may be wrong but it is a vague memory from internationl history.



Let me be clear on this: _*I*_ would kill him if I could.  The BBC had a piece entitled _Zimbabwe's Forgotten Children_.  I watched it and now I really, really want to kill him.  If someone setup a PayPal donation button to hire a hit squad, I'd donate.

As far as I know, the Europeans pretty much left everything in place.  What caused most of the problems was the different tribes picking up old feuds and infighting to control the natural resources.  The was no scorched Earth policy.

I'm sure there were exceptions, but most of the Europeans either left or simply stepped aside peaceably.


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## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> americans owned land, went to school, became literate etc etc, do you think the black africans were afforded the same privlige?  America's natural resources allows us to recover quickly from wartime devastation, how many desert, drought ridden countrie's allow the same?



Africa is rich in resources. Oil, diamonds, and coltan to name a few.


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## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> um, what?
> 
> this starts out a question, and ends as a statement. care to try again?



It's funny how everyone else thinks _*they're*_ the ones without propaganda.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> these laws in Nigeria, are the laws for strict enforcement, or are they strictly enforced? DOMS has already responded to this utterly bogus accusation, but let me reiterate. show me where the US government has turned a blind eye to this matter. human sex trafficking does in fact happen here in the US. care to show an instance where the government, or people as a whole have turned a blind eye to this matter? does the FBI not actively pursue these rings? do we not prosecute them as quickly as they are found?
> 
> Comparing the two situations whatever you want to call them will easily show the large discrepancies between the US and Africa, or Asia in these matters.



I like how when I point out a fact , instead of accepting it,  conditional clauses are applied.  

Fact, doms and everyone point to slavery in Africa as if that justifies conditions for blacks living in America and that they should be grateful they are here instead of there.   Blacks in America are now AMericans, just like Italians in this country are Americans, Asians born here are Americans, who cares what their mother country hosted?  


I was merely pointing out the very real fact that slavery exists in this country, as a great law abiding nation, we try to tame it , with a little more success than more disadvantaged countries, but so what!

Then the issue of Nigeria allowing legal slavery was bought in, it's not legal, well then let's say the "government" is more of a bad ass than us because they allow it, well according to any Nigerians their government is doing their darnest to stop "human trafficking" as much as we are.   However, unlike us, they probably  have less success due to less resources afforded to their police and more corruption, not unlike the rampant human trafficking now occurring in "white" Russia.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/16/w...ship-off-west-african-coast.html?pagewanted=1

small snippet, like us, africa is trying to control human trafficking,oops wrong term, slavery....


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> Africa is rich in resources. Oil, diamonds, and coltan to name a few.




so i guess you never saw blood diamond, they aren't allowed to own their own resources.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Let me be clear on this: _*I*_  What caused most of the problems was the different tribes picking up old feuds and infighting to control the natural resources.  y.



did my example with iraq go over your head,many colonialists drew up artificial borders around warring tribes and called it a "country",like merging us with mexico and telling us we are one country and to deal with our differences!  Not unlike what is going on in eastern europe after russia left .  It's not just tribalistic blacks now but tribalistic europeans are now going at each other's throats.


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## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Fact, doms and everyone point to slavery in Africa as if that justifies conditions for blacks living in America and that they should be grateful they are here instead of there.



That was never my point.  I was posting those because we were already talking about blacks and, because of my personal studies, it was foremost in my mind.  And yes, it was a bit prod for you taking pot shots at whites.  But I wasn't trying to make any real connections.




bandaidwoman said:


> Then the issue of Nigeria allowing legal slavery was bought in, it's not legal, well then let's say the "government" is more of a bad ass than us because they allow it, well according to any Nigerians their government is doing their darnest to stop "human trafficking" as much as we are.   However, unlike us, they probably  have less success due to less resources afforded to their police.



It's not illegal, but everyone there turns a blind eye to it.  _*Eight percent *_of the nation are slaves.  That's *1.17 million* people.  Trying to draw a comparison of that to anything that goes on in the US is ludicrous.


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## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> did my example with iraq go over your head,many colonialists drew up artificial borders around warring tribes and called it a "country",like merging us with mexico and telling us we are one country and to deal with our differences!  Not unlike what is going on in eastern europe after russia left .  It's not just tribalistic blacks now but tribalistic europeans are now going at each other's throats.



So what stopped them from just erasing the lines?  From going back to old territories?   Absolutely nothing.  Yet, somehow, that's the Europeans fault?

I can't help but notice that you always find it's the white guys fault.


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## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> I was merely pointing out the very real fact that slavery exists in this country, as a great law abiding nation, we try to tame it , with a little more success than more disadvantaged countries, but so what!



so what? thats a big so what! the US is much better at taming slavery here than African countries are. if you want to claim that we are only having a *little more success* you are going to have to back this up with numbers. DOMS has already asked for numbers and nothing has been provided. 

any and all slavery is bad, and should not be accepted. it should be stamped out by the people wherever it is found. this is something that is happening here in the US. this is not happening in Africa.


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## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> so i guess you never saw blood diamond, they aren't allowed to own their own resources.



It's pretty much impossible for you to believe that, with the excetption of Mugabe, to believe that Africans cause their own problems, isn't it?


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## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> so i guess you never saw blood diamond, they aren't allowed to own their own resources.



yup, watched blood diamond. looked a lot like black on black crime to me.


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## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> I can't help but notice that you always find it's the white guys fault.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> So what stopped them from just erasing the lines?  From going back to old territories?





why dont ask that very profound question just in relation to one country ....iraq?  Oh yeah, they are having "civil unrest" because those damn shiites, kurds and sunnis just want to fight, those damn kurds want their own territory because they are barbarians!

helllooooo kurds are demanding autonomy, since winston churchill took it away from them from the ottoman empire's gift to them, why didn't bush give it back!  The Ottoman empire gave each of them their own province, so why can't we the enlightened whites just give it back to them?  And now since the shiites comprise the majority, the minority sunnis and kurds are just shit out of luck. Hmm, maybe something similar happens to the warring tribes who want autonomy from the majority in power?


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## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> why dont ask that very profound question just in relation to one country ....iraq?  Oh yeah, they are having "civil unrest" because those damn shiites, kurds and sunnis just want to fight, those damn kurds want their own territory because they are barbarians!
> 
> helllooooo kurds are demanding autonomy, since winston churchill took it away from them from the ottoman empire's gift to them, why didn't bush give it back!  The Ottoman empire gave each of them their own province, so why can't we the enlightened whites just give it back to them?  And now since the shiites comprise the majority, the minority sunnis and kurds are just shit out of luck. Hmm, maybe something similar happens to the warring tribes who want autonomy from the majority in power?



so now you want Bush to have created a country?


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## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> why dont ask that very profound question just in relation to one country ....iraq?  Oh yeah, they are having "civil unrest" because those damn shiites, kurds and sunnis just want to fight, those damn kurds want their own territory because they are barbarians!
> 
> helllooooo kurds are demanding autonomy, since winston churchill took it away from them from the ottoman empire's gift to them, why didn't bush give it back!



See, yet again you're resorting to a red herring.  You didn't answer my question about Africans after the Europeans left.

As for Iraq, the goal was to bring democracy (a waste of time, but I digress)  to the country, not to break it up.  After the US leaves (hopefully soon) they can do whatever they want to with it.  If they want to break it up, more power to them.   It's their choice.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

For the record, I never said it was the white guys fault, it was colonialism's fault, please, once again confusing facts with your own bias

For the record, I know that "Human trafficking " is also an epidemic in China.  I don't excuse my own race from what whites and blacks are doing


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## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> so now you want Bush to have created a country?



No.  She wanted Bush to _carve up_ a country.  Which would have made everyone happy.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> so now you want Bush to have created a country?



No, I answered doms stupid question "duh.. why can't those dumb ass blacks revert back to their pre colonial bounderies!"   Gee, why can't those dumb ass Arabs do the same thing, (revert to precolonial borders) oh wait, they tried with Kuwait........


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## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> For the record, I never said it was the white guys fault, it was colonialism's fault, please, once again confusing facts with your own bias
> 
> For the record, I know that "Human trafficking " is also an epidemic in China.  I don't excuse my own race from what whites and blacks are doing



again, it's time to show numbers for this epidemic of human trafficking in the US. show me where it is not actively being hunted out and prosecuted then we can talk.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> No.  She wanted Bush to _carve up_ a country.  Which would have made everyone happy.




you know I wonder if my english is superior to americans because I answered your question with a question that showed it was virtually impossible for the blacks to revert to precoloniall borders on their  own..

to quote your "What's stopping them?"


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## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> For the record, I never said it was the white guys fault, it was colonialism's fault, please, once again confusing facts with your own bias



So, the tribal killing before the Europeans showed up isn't the Africans' fault?  Nor was the resuming of those old ways after the Europeans left?  The quality of living in Africa was highest when it was run by Europeans.

Should the Europeans have subjugated the people?  Of course not.  But that doesn't change the fact that the black on black killing dropped while they were there or that the quality of life was at its highest.



bandaidwoman said:


> For the record, I know that "Human trafficking " is also an epidemic in China.  I don't excuse my own race from what whites and blacks are doing



Are you sure that isn't the white ma-, I mean, Americans or Europeans fault somehow?  I'm sure you can work up a theory.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> again, it's time to show numbers for this epidemic of human trafficking in the US. show me where it is not actively being hunted out and prosecuted then we can talk.




I belive at least 50,000 in america that is documented , ( and it is underestimated) and only 1% of human trafficking victims  have hope of being rescued.  This is from readings from over the years .  google it yourself, and I never said america was not prosecuting it.  My home country china is acutally much more guilty of that.  ( But then that flew over your heads since I was no longer bashing white males.)


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## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> No, I answered doms stupid question "duh.. why can't those dumb ass blacks revert back to their pre colonial bounderies!"   Gee, why can't those dumb ass Arabs do the same thing, (revert to precolonial borders) oh wait, they tried with Kuwait........



you completely misunderstood  DOMS


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> you know I wonder if my english is superior to americans because I answered your question with a question that showed it was virtually impossible for the blacks to revert to precoloniall borders on their  own..
> 
> to quote your "What's stopping them?"



Why is impossible?  More importantly, why is their (Arab or African) inability to undo it someone else's fault?


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> I belive at least 50,000 in america that is documented , ( and it is underestimated) and only 1% of human trafficking victims  have hope of being rescued.  This is from readings from over the years .  google it yourself, and I never said america was not prosecuting it.  My home country china is acutally much more guilty of that.  ( But then that flew over your heads since I was no longer bashing white males.)



Source?  

I've read report after report by organizations (in and out of the USA) dedicated to the exposing and eradication of slavery anywhere in the world and I've never seen that number.

If that number is true, that amounts to 0.00016% of the nations population.  A fraction of a fraction...


----------



## theCaptn' (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> Africa is rich in resources. Oil, diamonds, and coltan to name a few.


 
yes, and the chinese are busy securing them, and building the infrastructure to extract the minerals. Those little fuckers have no scruples . . who do you think Mugabe's regime is being supported?


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> you know I wonder if my english is superior to americans because I answered your question with a question that showed it was virtually impossible for the blacks to revert to precoloniall borders on their  own..
> 
> to quote your "What's stopping them?"



well i have already questioned your english here so I doubt it is superior to Americans. danny81 for sure, but Americans? I think not. no doubt you are educated. too bad that education hasn't led you to an understanding.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> you completely misunderstood  DOMS



I don't think she did.  She's going for a red herring again.


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> So, the tribal killing before the Europeans showed up isn't the Africans' fault?  Nor was the resuming of those old ways after the Europeans left?  The quality of living in Africa was highest when it was run by Europeans.
> 
> Should the Europeans have subjugated the people?  Of course not.  But that doesn't change the fact that the black on black killing dropped while they were there or that the quality of life was at its highest.
> 
> ...




first of all, all civilizations go through birth pains, what if the aztecs or more civilized chinese came to europe during the barbaric middle ages and colonized the europeans?  Do you honestly think the results would be the same.  have you no concept of free determination ( for good or bad).  African squabbled, let them, they probably would have figured it out after a while, and quite a few of them are going to fall on their face, many are doing so quite nicely and I see their product here in our higher institutions.  I don't think I would have seen many africans at Dartmouth if they were still under european colonization.

Like I said, the eastern europeans are showing the same tribal mentality now that a totalitarian government left behind after dominating it, history repeating itself in a different continant, in a different race.... sad and it is the very reason why china will always be totalitarian, otherwise china would become a warring tribal insanity among its 52 ethnic people that would put africans and arabs to shame...We asians are not that more evolved than any white or black.


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> If that number is true, that amounts to 0.00016% of the nations population.  A fraction of a fraction...



facts are stubborn things


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

CaptRichArund said:


> yes, and the chinese are busy securing them, and building the infrastructure to extract the minerals. Those little fuckers have no scruples . . who do you think Mugabe's regime is being supported?



The Chinese?  You just might be right. Another.  Arms dealing.

How did I miss that connection?! 

Thanks, Cap'n!


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Source?
> 
> I've read report after report by organizations (in and out of the USA) dedicated to the exposing and eradication of slavery anywhere in the world and I've never seen that number.
> 
> If that number is true, that amounts to 0.00016% of the nations population.  A fraction of a fraction...



it is underreported...... so we don't know of its true incidence.  and what difference was the scale, our government is more highly evolved than most, we both know that, so you can't compare apples with oranges.


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> ...We asians are not that more evolved than any white or black.





either your english fails you, or you really believe that asians are more evolved than whites/blacks.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> first of all, all civilizations go through birth pains, what if the aztecs or more civilized chinese came to europe during the barbaric middle ages and colonized the europeans?  Do you honestly think the results would be the same.  have you no concept of free determination ( for good or bad).  African squabbled, let them, they probably would have figured it out after a while, and quite a few of them are going to fall on their face, many are doing so quite nicely and I see their product here in our higher institutions.  I don't think I would have seen many africans at Dartmouth if they were still under european colonization.



Oh, I hope they get it together.  No one should have to live like that.  "Many quite nicely"?  I don't think I'd go with "many", but my favourite in terms of progress is Mali.  They're still having hard time, but they've made great strides.

Oh, and, personally, I would refer to mass murder and genocide as "squabbling", but that's just me.


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

CaptRichArund said:


> yes, and the chinese are busy securing them, and building the infrastructure to extract the minerals. Those little fuckers have no scruples . . who do you think Mugabe's regime is being supported?



Reverse discrimination, americans are so enarmored with their "perfect" over educated, high income, low crime minority asians they don't diss us over things like slavery and imperilaism , which is just as rampant as in Africa, thanks guys...


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> it is underreported...... so we don't know of its true incidence.  and what difference was the scale, our government is more highly evolved than most, we both know that, so you can't compare apples with oranges.



Sure, it probably is under-represent, but you still haven't provide a source for that mythical number of 50,000.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> either your english fails you, or you really believe that asians are more evolved than whites/blacks.



I wasn't going to say anything...


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Oh, I hope they get it together.  No one should have to live like that.  "Many quite nicely"?  I don't think I'd go with "many", but my favourite in terms of progress is Mali.  They're still having hard time, but they've made great strides.
> 
> Oh, and, personally, I would refer to mass murder and genocide as "squabbling", but that's just me.




Oh forgive me , i was not consistent, the serbian massacre should have been labelled serbian squabbling and the taiping rebellion that massacred over 50 million chinese by christian sect as relligious squabbling, excuse me.

You keep leaving us perfect asians out of similar crimes commited by blacks.


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> it is underreported...... so we don't know of its true incidence.  and what difference was the scale, our government is more highly evolved than most, we both know that, so you can't compare apples with oranges.



You are the one trying to make the comparison! now you say don't compare apples to oranges? exactly! you can't compare the two. what is happening in Africa can't possibly be compared to what is happening here in the US. black, hispanics, whites, asians all have it better here in the US than they do in their ancestral lands!


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Reverse discrimination, americans are so enarmored with their "perfect" over educated, high income, low crime minority asians they don't diss us over things like slavery and imperilaism , which is just as rampant as in Africa, thanks guys...



My deepest apologies if my _personal_ interactions with the Chinese in California have made a positive impression on me.  I promise to try harder to hate them.


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> My deepest apologies if my _personal_ interactions with the Chinese in California have made a positive impression on me.  I promise to try harder to hate them.


A wise man once said:
 "Do, or do not, there is no try"


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> You keep leaving us perfect asians out of similar crimes commited by blacks.



When did I say that the Chinese were perfect?  I pointed out that they engage in slavery, and in another thread, I pointed out that they still still kill infants if they're the wrong gender.  The wrong gender being female.  There are villages that are missing 40% of their recorded population.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> A wise man once said:
> "Do, or do not, there is no try"



And even smarter person said, "I can't promise to try, but I'll try to try."


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> either your english fails you, or you really believe that asians are more evolved than whites/blacks.




Of course not, for instance why don't I push how asians have higher mathmatical IQs than whites and blacks?  No, we are not superior, studies have been done in whites or blacks who learn mandarin ( it is a three dimensional language characterized by distinguishing five tones vs english monotone and a two dimensional writing vs linear writing in english) have higher math sat scores etc.  I believe language inhertantly conditions the brain for higher mathmatical ability.  Just googe l
learning mandarin by americans and mathmatics. It is probably why in asia there was no disparity between girls and boys in mathmatical classes.

Do I think asians are superior to whites in this country because we commit less crime than you? ( just google it yourself)? No, because in our own countries we show we can be evil ( pol pot, Japanese nazism) The ones who emigrate here ( not the successful criminals back in asia) have this incredible social network that "shames" outliers of following society rules.  I'm sure second and third generation asians will lose this. It is why doms interactions with asians in california and my own interaction with my community is still positive.  I don't suscribe to whites being more inheritantly prone to crime than me or more lazy ( which unfortunately my bigotted asian relatives keep telling me. )  And believe me doms, they just don't tell it to your face.  ( we are very subtle and good at "keeping face")


----------



## theCaptn' (Mar 6, 2010)

is it true asian chicks have horizontal pussies? I've never seen one  .. . .


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

CaptRichArund said:


> is it true asian chicks have horizontal pussies? I've never seen one  .. . .



+1 I owe you reputation now


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> I'm not DOMS dumb ass. and you have no idea how much time i've spent either in the ghetto, or in Africa. You are right though, i've never been to Africa. but i don't think i need to be there to know how high the rate of Aids is, or to believe the stories coming out of Darfur. Then again my friend from Namibia has spoken about some of the stuff he grew up seeing.
> 
> If you want to argue with my statement that blacks in the US have it better than blacks in Africa go right ahead. It will only further prove you're an idiot not worth listening to though.



You do not have a clue about Africa. How can you make that statement? Do you know how well people live? Ofcourse there's going to be poor everywhere, just like there is in the US. It just happens that 90%+  of the African population you're stating is black and so also the poor people will be black. Using them as an example for african life is not a representation of the average life in Africa. I personally would rather live in Africa than in the American ghetto. Infact after university I'm moving to Kenya to start my working life there.

But hey what do I know, your reputation on these forums and so if you label me an idiot, I will be. I'm not going to argue your point even though I don't agree with it


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Do I think asians are superior to whites in this country because we commit less crime than you? ( just google it yourself)? No, because in our own countries we show we can be evil ( pol pot, Japanese nazism) The ones who emigrate here ( not the successful criminals back in asia) have this incredible social network that "shames" outliers of following society rules.  I'm sure second and third generation asians will lose this.



You also have some of the most draconian laws on the planet.  And the biggest member, China, hides how many people it incarcerates and kills.

The Chinese government also admitted to harvesting body parts from criminals.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> You live in the UK, it's knives for you.
> 
> I've never hid my racist beliefs.   I've also never hid that they're based in facts, not ideologies.



Who said there's no guns in the UK. They're just not legal. Besides you're in the US.

I'd love to see these facts btw. Thanks.


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> When did I say that the Chinese were perfect?  I pointed out that they engage in slavery, and in another thread, I pointed out that they still still kill infants if they're the wrong gender.  The wrong gender being female.  There are villages that are missing 40% of their recorded population.




I'm sorry I did not see that , so I could not help but think you were only cultivating slavery tendencies in blacks only.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> +1 I owe you reputation now



I hit him up for you.


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

CaptRichArund said:


> is it true asian chicks have horizontal pussies? I've never seen one  .. . .



nope,


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> Who said there's no guns in the UK. They're just not legal. Besides you're in the US.
> 
> I'd love to see these facts btw. Thanks.



It's 2:30 in the morning.  Why are you up?

It's my pleasure.  The world is a pretty messed up place if you look around.  I'm hoping it gets better, but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> You also have some of the most draconian laws on the planet.  And the biggest member, China, hides how many people it incarcerates and kills.
> 
> The Chinese government also admitted to harvesting body parts from criminals.




true, that is why the "good" asian community in this country here is  not a good representatiion of our race.  Most Americans, unlike you, forget that.  It's amazing how when I took my AP history course in New York high school they concentrated on the atrocities of the germans in WW2 and gave little to no mention of the equally appalling Japanese scope or atrocities.   Was it just neglect, was it reverse racism?  Was it indifference?  Like I said, I probably use the word propaganda wrong, more like "editing" that is in the history books and western media.  I frankly don't see much of a difference among the  media in countries like Malaysia,  Japan and Taiwan ( china does not control our media there like the mainland)  All three have their "liberal" and "right" media. There is a "fox" version in Japan that is really funny, watched when I visited last year.  They even have a Japanese "rush limbaugh"


----------



## theCaptn' (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> nope,


 
that's a shame, I had my hopes up.



. . . wtf are we arguing about?


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> true, that is why the "good" asian community in this country here is  not a good representatiion of our race.  Most Americans, unlike you, forget that.



That's the funny thing.  The Far Right tried to get the American public to look at China as the new Red Menace, and most people just said "meh."

Most of the Asians that make it over here make a good impression though.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> It's 2:30 in the morning.  Why are you up?
> 
> It's my pleasure.  The world is a pretty messed up place if you look around.  I'm hoping it gets better, but I'm not holding my breath.



I just got back from blazin it up at a friend's house before muggin an innocent white girl on the way back to mine and still had it in me to throw a couple of stones through windows of people living in my halls and I thought I'd come and prove how bad black people are compared to white people by testifying my own actions.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> When did I say that the Chinese were perfect?  I pointed out that they engage in slavery, and in another thread, I pointed out that they still still kill infants if they're the wrong gender.  The wrong gender being female.  There are villages that are missing 40% of their recorded population.



A necessary evil maybe? Asia might sink if the population of china was able to multiply freely.


----------



## theCaptn' (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> I just got back from blazin it up at a friend's house before muggin an innocent white girl on the way back to mine and still had it in me to throw a couple of stones through windows of people living in my halls and I thought I'd come and prove how bad black people are compared to white people by testifying my own actions.


 
not a bad night's work chief, but it doesnt count unless you spear someone


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> You do not have a clue about Africa. How can you make that statement? Do you know how well people live? Ofcourse there's going to be poor everywhere, just like there is in the US. It just happens that 90%+  of the African population you're stating is black and so also the poor people will be black. Using them as an example for african life is not a representation of the average life in Africa. I personally would rather live in Africa than in the American ghetto. Infact after university I'm moving to Kenya to start my working life there.
> 
> But hey what do I know, your reputation on these forums and so if you label me an idiot, I will be. I'm not going to argue your point even though I don't agree with it



whats the rate of AIDS in Africa vs. the ghetto? I mentioned my friend born and raised in Namibia right. (yes, he is black). I have no direct experience of myself in Africa, yet I know enough to be talking about it. Hell you yourself are getting your education outside of Africa, why is that?

Fact: a black man born in the US statistically will have more/better opportunities than a black man born Africa.


----------



## theCaptn' (Mar 6, 2010)

ive working in africa. the village near the mine was on the main highway. AIDs rate there was 45%. to be honest Africa is a shithole, they treat each other like fucking animals.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> whats the rate of AIDS in Africa vs. the ghetto? I mentioned my friend born and raised in Namibia right. (yes, he is black). I have no direct experience of myself in Africa, yet I know enough to be talking about it. Hell you yourself are getting your education outside of Africa, why is that?
> 
> Fact: a black man born in the US statistically will have more/better opportunities than a black man born Africa.



Because the qualifications from the UK are better recognised worldwide? Besides they don't do pharmaceutical management in Kenya.

To be honest I enjoyed my African life much more than the life here. Remember wealth/possessions does not equal a better life.

Aids is not situational. It comes from own choice. It comes from Africa's increasing promiscous lifestyles. A girl in university would have atleast 3 known guys she's "seeing". One lover, one fucker and one sugar daddy, not to mention the other fucks she gets when she gets picked up by someone in the club when her main men aren't around. The men are just as bad. AIDS is not a valid argument. It is not aquired nomatter what your choice is.

Opportunities for what? To work hard day after day, have little time for your family just to pay your bills and taxes? Opportunity is relative. I would rather own my own farm (like many africans do) and be self supporting myself and my family than live the glorified lives you idealise.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> I just got back from blazin it up at a friend's house before muggin an innocent white girl on the way back to mine and still had it in me to throw a couple of stones through windows of people living in my halls and I thought I'd come and prove how bad black people are compared to white people by testifying my own actions.



Ah, that my guess!


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

CaptRichArund said:


> ive working in africa. the village near the mine was on the main highway. AIDs rate there was 45%. to be honest Africa is a shithole, they treat each other like fucking animals.



It's sad but it's just due to a lack of education in the rural areas. AIDS kills too many. It's real.


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> Because the qualifications from the UK are better recognised worldwide? Besides they don't do pharmaceutical management in Kenya.
> 
> To be honest I enjoyed my African life much more than the life here. Remember wealth/possessions does not equal a better life.
> 
> ...


you have no idea what I idealise.

opportunities? how about the opportunities for education in pharmaceutical management for one.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> you have no idea what I idealise.
> 
> opportunities? how about the opportunities for education in pharmaceutical management for one.



I was born in Kenya


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> A necessary evil maybe? Asia might sink if the population of china was able to multiply freely.



You're really going to try to justify killing infants?  There's something seriously wrong with you.

The reasons has nothing to do with population control.  They do it for the same reason that people in India do it.  Boys can work and are seen a useful, where as girls are seen as mostly useless.  There's your fucked up logic right there.


----------



## theCaptn' (Mar 6, 2010)

I should back that up to say I was part of a team that went in to clean out management and get the operation back on track. Management were all locals, all on 6-figure US salaries, yet skimming off the their employee's wages among other scams.

What the Europeans did to Africa was self-serving and in many ways vile. As soon as they left, they were simply replaced by Africans who continue the legacy. I have witnessed first hand how Africans treat each other and it's contemptable.

Can anyone point out a successfull and well-governed African nation? With the exception of Botswana, there are none.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> To be honest I enjoyed my African life much more than the life here. Remember wealth/possessions does not equal a better life.
> 
> Aids is not situational. It comes from own choice. It comes from Africa's increasing promiscous lifestyles. A girl in university would have atleast 3 known guys she's "seeing". One lover, one fucker and one sugar daddy, not to mention the other fucks she gets when she gets picked up by someone in the club when her main men aren't around. The men are just as bad. AIDS is not a valid argument. It is not aquired nomatter what your choice is.
> 
> Opportunities for what? To work hard day after day, have little time for your family just to pay your bills and taxes? Opportunity is relative. I would rather own my own farm (like many africans do) and be self supporting myself and my family than live the glorified lives you idealise.



This begs the question: why don't you go back?


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> Because the qualifications from the UK are better recognised worldwide? Besides they don't do pharmaceutical management in Kenya.
> 
> To be honest I enjoyed my African life much more than the life here. Remember wealth/possessions does not equal a better life.
> 
> ...




for some bizarre reason many of the black doctors at emory were from nigeria, eboh? ( not sure of spelling) tribe.  I assume they might be the more affluent tribe and kenyan. The chief resident at Grady was from Ghana, etc. I had my prejudices about the quality of educaation in African until I went to Dartmouth,  of the blacks in medical school, over half were from Africa.  Their pre graduate education was astounding. Of course, there is a selection bias since only the upper class has the financial means to obtain a student or work visa.  Amazingly, despite the mysogeny in africa many of these africans were women ( once again i dealt mostly with Nigerians, the salutorian at medical school  was eboh nigerian.  Not a single one had any disparging remarks about their country ( of course my contacts were limited to kenyans, nigerians, ghanians or whatever). Their value for life , like many europeans who were also matriculated there, was definately not as materialistic as americans and asians.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> whats the rate of AIDS in Africa vs. the ghetto? I mentioned my friend born and raised in Namibia right. (yes, he is black). I have no direct experience of myself in Africa, yet I know enough to be talking about it. Hell you yourself are getting your education outside of Africa, why is that?
> 
> Fact: a black man born in the US statistically will have more/better opportunities than a black man born Africa.



A great quote from a UK citizen on another forum I sometimes frequent.

"I agree and since the British government is unwilling to make reparations I as a British citizen am more than happy to do so on their behalf.

Obviously all the people actually involved are dead now so there is nothing I can do for them so it's their ancestors I feel I must recompense.

I have a simple formula, all we need to do it work out the average yearly income of American African Americans and the average income of Africans to get a figure of how much worse off the African Americans are. Then multiply that by the average lifespan of an African American and the number of them who can prove their ancestors were slaves.

I'll accept payment in gold bullion."


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> You're really going to try to justify killing infants?  There's something seriously wrong with you.
> 
> The reasons has nothing to do with population control.  They do it for the same reason that people in India do it.  Boys can work and are seen a useful, where as girls are seen as mostly useless.  There's your fucked up logic right there.



I didn't justify it. Why not campaign against abortion in your so called "better" America 

Well, none of us really know the logic, but as is the case in all countries, there's always hidden agendas that the general public do not know about.

Reminds me of full metal alchemist. Particularly the brotherhood series. The government is a setup to benefit a few individuals at the cost of the people in the nation.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> This begs the question: why don't you go back?



It was my mother's decision to come here. And I'm here in uni. As I said in a previous post, I am going to go back and settle there eventually once I establish myself in my work.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

CaptRichArund said:


> I should back that up to say I was part of a team that went in to clean out management and get the operation back on track. Management were all locals, all on 6-figure US salaries, yet skimming off the their employee's wages among other scams.
> 
> What the Europeans did to Africa was self-serving and in many ways vile. As soon as they left, they were simply replaced by Africans who continue the legacy. I have witnessed first hand how Africans treat each other and it's contemptable.
> 
> Can anyone point out a successfull and well-governed African nation? With the exception of Botswana, there are none.



The third world's progress is being supressed by western forces. This is what stops africa getting to a stage where there can be a stable governing body. The west supports bad third world governments because it benefits the west.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> It was my mother's decision to come here. And I'm here in uni. As I said in a previous post, I am going to go back and settle there eventually once I establish myself in my work.



Good.  Try to make it better.

Kenya is one of the better areas in Africa.  But you get a lot of spillage from up north and to the west.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> for some bizarre reason many of the black doctors at emory were from nigeria, eboh? ( not sure of spelling) tribe.  I assume they might be the more affluent tribe and kenyan. The chief resident at Grady was from Ghana, etc. I had my prejudices about the quality of educaation in African until I went to Dartmouth,  of the blacks in medical school, over half were from Africa.  Their pre graduate education was astounding. Of course, there is a selection bias since only the upper class has the financial means to obtain a student or work visa.  Amazingly, despite the mysogeny in africa many of these africans were women ( once again i dealt mostly with Nigerians, the salutorian at medical school  was eboh nigerian.  Not a single one had any disparging remarks about their country ( of course my contacts were limited to kenyans, nigerians, ghanians or whatever). Their value for life , like many europeans who were also matriculated there, was definately not as materialistic as americans and asians.



In my experience, Africans are much more well educated than the UK but it's the lack of resources (money) and bias that determine  the fact that they don't end up with good qualifications.


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> You're really going to try to justify killing infants?  There's something seriously wrong with you.
> 
> The reasons has nothing to do with population control.  They do it for the same reason that people in India do it.  Boys can work and are seen a useful, where as girls are seen as mostly useless.  There's your fucked up logic right there.




my goodness, i've gone from supreme irritation to supreme admiration.


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> I was born in Kenya



yea, you were born in Kenya, and seeing that you had better educational opportunities outside of your homeland you left. thank you for proving my point.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> Well, none of us really know the logic, but as is the case in all countries, there's always hidden agendas that the general public do not know about.



The reasons are well known and are the same for both China and India.



T_man said:


> Reminds me of full metal alchemist. Particularly the brotherhood series. The government is a setup to benefit a few individuals at the cost of the people in the nation.



I've never watched that series, but I'll get around to it.  Right now I'm into Darker Than Black.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Good.  Try to make it better.
> 
> Kenya is one of the better areas in Africa.  But you get a lot of spillage from up north and to the west.



I wouldn't mind somalia being bombed off the face of this planet actually.

But thats my intention. I'm doing pharmaceutical management, with my cousin doing politics and law and our good friend doing engineering. We all have an aim of improving a certain part of kenya with our combined efforts.


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> In my experience, Africans are much more well educated than the UK but it's the lack of resources (money) and bias that determine  the fact that they don't end up with good qualifications.



that is very interesting, as a chemist i worked with lots of european whites and african blacks but i don't recall a european black.  Hmm, that is interesting, i never thought that blacks in europe would be less educated than blacks in africa..


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> my goodness, i've gone from supreme irritation to supreme admiration.



For as much as you and I disagree, we have a lot of overlap.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> yea, you were born in Kenya, and seeing that you had better educational opportunities outside of your homeland you left. thank you for proving my point.



And what exactly what was your point? Oh yea:


bio-chem said:


> _Fact: a black man *born* in the US statistically will have more/better opportunities than a black man born Africa._



I was *born* in Kenya and I have had the same opportunities as someone here.

Biochem just please leave this discussion. Your statements are irrelevant.


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> The third world's progress is being supressed by western forces. This is what stops africa getting to a stage where there can be a stable governing body. The west supports bad third world governments because it benefits the west.




my dad worked for the cia, he tells me this all the time, not specifically about africa, just supporting bad governments to suit our own agenda  (pinochet comes to mind) and for a while we were instrumental in pol pots rise to power, he was a critical cia assett against vietnam, even backed him for admission to UN, then we turned coat against him,  my dad  should know he spent 15 years in indochina and cleaningup after the killing field with air america.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> I wouldn't mind somalia being bombed off the face of this planet actually.
> 
> But thats my intention. I'm doing pharmaceutical management, with my cousin doing politics and law and our good friend doing engineering. We all have an aim of improving a certain part of kenya with our combined efforts.



Good luck!

And just so that you know that I don't have some great hate-on for Africans.


----------



## theCaptn' (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> The third world's progress is being supressed by western forces. This is what stops africa getting to a stage where there can be a stable governing body. The west supports bad third world governments because it benefits the west.


 
What a cop out statement if I ever heard one. And I wouldnt call China or India 'western forces'


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> I was *born* in Kenya and I have had the same opportunities as someone here.
> 
> Biochem just please leave this discussion. Your statements are irrelevant.



I disagree.  He makes a very valid point.  You had to leave your country for greater opportunity.  Having to leave to succeed isn't much of a selling point.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> that is very interesting, as a chemist i worked with lots of european whites and african blacks but i don't recall a european black.  Hmm, that is interesting, i never thought that blacks in europe would be less educated than blacks in africa..



The education system is much harder, school days are longer (my primary was in the 8-4-4 system and there was a 7AM class start to 3PM from years 1-4 and then from 4-8 it was 7-5 with a 10-2 saturday class).

When I came here, the stuff they were doing was 2 years behind what we learnt in Kenya. Infact right now in uni I'm learning stuff that in Kenya my cousin learnt in high school.

I'm not saying that in general they are brighter, but due to the education system, I would say someone coming out of a kenyan high school is much more educated than someone from the UK.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> For as much as you and I disagree, we have a lot of overlap.



Finally some love on these boards


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> The third world's progress is being supressed by western forces. This is what stops africa getting to a stage where there can be a stable governing body. The west supports bad third world governments because it benefits the west.



I've lived in the third world and progress is being suppressed by their own governments.

We have interfered in many places it is true, and I don't agree with our policies that do so, but are you really saying that if the west completely left Africa that Africans would sort things out and provide governments that were stable governing bodies that provided for basic human rights?

 I find that concept to be completely bogus. Africa left unto itself would revert to the worst forms of barbarism the world has ever seen.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

CaptRichArund said:


> What a cop out statement if I ever heard one. And I wouldnt call China or India 'western forces'



I'm going to second this.  99% of all oppression in Africa is African on African.

Although, I've found that many third-world people define "western oppression" as not giving enough free money.


----------



## danzik17 (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Of course not, for instance why don't I push how asians have higher mathmatical IQs than whites and blacks?








YouTube Video


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

CaptRichArund said:


> What a cop out statement if I ever heard one. And I wouldnt call China or India 'western forces'



Capt, if only you knew. Lets take Iraq as an example. Wtf was happening there? It was invaded in response to 9/11 where the terrorists were actually in Afghanistan.
Furthermore the weapons of mass destruction weren't there.
Furthermore any weapons they had were given to them by your government.
Furthermore there just happened to be oil in the area and Iraq could serve as a good stronghold for transporting that oil.
What coincidences?

Oil was found in Kenya. On the same vein that runs through the middle east. Kenyans found it. The US intervened and paid the government to rubbish those claims, and silence the people who found it, and then sent their own prospectors to say that it wasn't there. At the same time Kenya and the US just happened to improve their relations with added support from the US.

Furthermore, if the war in Iraq was to "help the nation" why haven't they invaded Zimbabwe?

Your government is as much a con as any other.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> my dad worked for the cia, he tells me this all the time, not specifically about africa, just supporting bad governments to suit our own agenda  (pinochet comes to mind) and for a while we were instrumental in pol pots rise to power, he was a critical cia assett against vietnam, even backed him for admission to UN, then we turned coat against him,  my dad  should know he spent 15 years in indochina and cleaningup after the killing field with air america.



yea it's not known that much, only people close to the high ranks know


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> I've lived in the third world and progress is being suppressed by their own governments.
> 
> We have interfered in many places it is true, and I don't agree with our policies that do so, but are you really saying that if the west completely left Africa that Africans would sort things out and provide governments that were stable governing bodies that provided for basic human rights?
> 
> I find that concept to be completely bogus. Africa left unto itself would revert to the worst forms of barbarism the world has ever seen.



Iraq is in shit thanks to your government. So is Afghanistan. Sure it was against western ideals before and isn't as much now but it's in much more shit than it was.

And thats funny. If only you know the things the Europeans did to African resistant "militants".


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> I'm going to second this.  99% of all oppression in Africa is African on African.
> 
> Although, I've found that many third-world people define "western oppression" as not giving enough free money.



The western's success is built upon the exploitation of the third world. Whole cities here in the UK were built by slaves alone.

I'm not going to say much more because you'll think I'm a conspiracy theorist but your government is much more sinister than you think.


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> I disagree.  He makes a very valid point.  You had to leave your country for greater opportunity.  Having to leave to succeed isn't much of a selling point.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> I disagree.  He makes a very valid point.  You had to leave your country for greater opportunity.  Having to leave to succeed isn't much of a selling point.



I'm just nit-picking.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> Oil was found in Kenya. On the same vein that runs through the middle east. Kenyans found it. The US intervened and paid the government to rubbish those claims, and silence the people who found it, and then sent their own prospectors to say that it wasn't there. At the same time Kenya and the US just happened to improve their relations with added support from the US.



So what you're saying is that the US _bought_ the Kenyans out of the oil rights?  What's to stop the Kenyan government from just saying "the deal is off" and drilling?  Might it be because whatever concessions the US government is giving them doesn't make it worth it?

That's not a con, that's a business deal.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> So what you're saying is that the US _bought_ the Kenyans out of the oil rights?  What's to stop the Kenyan government from just saying "the deal is off" and drilling?  Might it be because whatever concessions the US government is giving them doesn't make it worth it?
> 
> That's not a con, that's a business deal.



The thing that's stopping them is the greed of the government and the few people benefiting from this deal.

Kenya is very capable of self support.


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> The western's success is built upon the exploitation of the third world. Whole cities here in the UK were built by slaves alone.
> 
> I'm not going to say much more because you'll think I'm a conspiracy theorist but your government is much more sinister than you think.



and a man born in kenya, educated in the UK knows more about the US government than does the American people? really?


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> The western's success is built upon the exploitation of the third world. Whole cities here in the UK were built by slaves alone.
> 
> I'm not going to say much more because you'll think I'm a conspiracy theorist but your government is much more sinister than you think.



Say as much as you want, there's no conspiracy about it.  *Everyone* fought for *their side*, and there were winners and there were losers.  Yes, it sucks to be a loser, but it's great to be a winner.

Having said that, past oppression and exploitation isn't keeping Africa the way it is now.  The Africans are doing that.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> The thing that's stopping them is the greed of the government and the few people benefiting from this deal.
> 
> Kenya is very capable of self support.



So what you're saying is that it's the people's fault for not electing a better government?


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> Iraq is in shit thanks to your government. So is Afghanistan. Sure it was against western ideals before and isn't as much now but it's in much more shit than it was.
> 
> And thats funny. If only you know the things the Europeans did to African resistant "militants".



For the first time in how many years the Iraqi people are getting to choose their government and it is in the shit thanks to my government?

yea, for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan life was sunshine and roses before the US invaded


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> So what you're saying is that it's the people's fault for not electing a better government?


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> and a man born in kenya, educated in the UK knows more about the US government than does the American people? really?



Information that does not require experience is not bound by national boundaries.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> So what you're saying is that it's the people's fault for not electing a better government?



We did. Our previous, and current president decided to rig the elections though


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## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Say as much as you want, there's no conspiracy about it.  *Everyone* fought for *their side*, and there were winners and there were losers.  Yes, it sucks to be a loser, but it's great to be a winner.
> 
> Having said that, past oppression and exploitation isn't keeping Africa the way it is now.  The Africans are doing that.



Well the game is the same thing as the conspiracy. Whether you win or lose, the game is still there, and therefore the conspiracy is always there, whether it's a win or lose.

The west still have an huge hand in what goes on in the third world. You probably just don't know about it though. The information given out by your government and media however do not shed light on the real reasons for things. Kinda like the Iraq war


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> For the first time in how many years the Iraqi people are getting to choose their government and it is in the shit thanks to my government?
> 
> yea, for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan life was sunshine and roses before the US invaded



Yea I mean the couple of thousands Saddam killed during his dictatorship is bad but the hundreds of thousands, nearing the millions, your country killed for the "benefit" of their country (which is car bombs and rebel voilence) is just fine isn't it 

But I mean. It's America. The land of the free and so anything they do has to be for the good of all those involved.


----------



## bandaidwoman (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> Iraq is in shit thanks to your government. So is Afghanistan. Sure it was against western ideals before and isn't as much now but it's in much more shit than it was.



the irony is that we dismembered an evil secular Baath leader , placed  a democracy so the shiites can now gain controll  of iraq, we have now tipped the balance of powers against sunnis in that region, shiite iran is creaming in their pants that their neighbor is now shiite, it's no wonder they have become more emboldened, an get this......shiites have a growing powerfull sect that the insane president of iran belongs to who believe the twelfth iman will come when mankind ushers in armegeddon! This is the ruling party we want to put in Iraq!

 It is america's complete ignorance of the differences between shiite and sunnis, in all fairness no less than can be expected of a muslim to appreciate the difference between protestants and catholics in shaping the balance of power in old europe


----------



## theCaptn' (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> Furthermore, if the war in Iraq was to "help the nation" why haven't they invaded Zimbabwe?
> 
> Your government is as much a con as any other.


 
The Chinese have brought the mineral rights for the entire nation of Zimbabwe. No-one's going to save Zimbabwe for that very reason.

. . and fyi, the Capt is a citizen of International Waters, governing his own affairs


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> We did. Our previous, and current president decided to rig the elections though



And this is America's fault how?


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> Information that does not require experience is not bound by national boundaries.



and by this logic the American people would be know about what you speak.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

CaptRichArund said:


> The Chinese have brought the mineral rights for the entire nation of Zimbabwe. No-one's going to save Zimbabwe for that very reason.



Exactly 

Africa & middle east are the playground of the Extreme east vs west


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> Well the game is the same thing as the conspiracy. Whether you win or lose, the game is still there, and therefore the conspiracy is always there, whether it's a win or lose.
> 
> The west still have an huge hand in what goes on in the third world. You probably just don't know about it though. The information given out by your government and media however do not shed light on the real reasons for things. Kinda like the Iraq war



Like I said before, everyone thinks _*they're*_ the only ones with honest reporting...


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> Yea I mean the couple of thousands Saddam killed during his dictatorship is bad but the hundreds of thousands, nearing the millions, your country killed for the "benefit" of their country (which is car bombs and rebel voilence) is just fine isn't it
> 
> But I mean. It's America. The land of the free and so anything they do has to be for the good of all those involved.






Saddam killed = *couple of thousands*?

*car bombs and rebel violence* = nearing millions my country killed?

you are woefully uninformed my friend.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> and by this logic the American people would be know about what you speak.



You are not born with information available in your country. By this logic you should be able to perform brain surgery, be a lecturer in English literature with a specialisation in shakespeare, and be able to create an electron microscope, just because the information is in your country.

"Seek and you shall find" - same goes for information.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> And this is America's fault how?



That part isn't. The culture that has been bred into Africa just means everybody is out to get money for themselves and themselves alone.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> That part isn't.



So what part is?


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> Saddam killed = *couple of thousands*?
> 
> *car bombs and rebel violence* = nearing millions my country killed?
> 
> you are woefully uninformed my friend.



Okay maybe I under-exxagerated Saddam's death toll. But maybe if you'd stop seeing what I write the way you want you'd realise that I stated that the US (and UK as well) have killed hundreds of thousands, nearing millions. These are as a direct result. And this was for the benefit of their country, the benefit being car bombs and rebel violence and regional tensions.

Looks like your attempt at trying to make me look bad backfired. Again.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> So what part is?



The part of the paying-off, for something that I don't know in which way will benefit Kenya. Maybe the export of tea and coffee.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Like I said before, everyone thinks _*they're*_ the only ones with honest reporting...



We are all guilty of it. Everybody sees "the truth" as the truth is only as much was what you know.


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> the irony is that we dismembered an evil secular Baath leader , placed  a democracy so the shiites can now gain controll  of iraq, we have now tipped the balance of powers against sunnis in that region, shiite iran is creaming in their pants that their neighbor is now shiite, it's no wonder they have become more emboldened, an get this......shiites have a growing powerfull sect that the insane president of iran belongs to who believe the twelfth iman will come when mankind ushers in armegeddon! This is the ruling party we want to put in Iraq!
> 
> It is america's complete ignorance of the differences between shiite and sunnis, in all fairness no less than can be expected of a muslim to appreciate the difference between protestants and catholics in shaping the balance of power in old europe



lets for a second hypothetically explore the notion that the US never got involved in Iraq. we never supported a dictator, and we never overthrew him. we let Iraq choose their own form of government without interference from the get go. would the US be safer? would the region be safer? would the Iraqi people be safer? what do you think, would we get Egypt, or Lebanon? Afghanistan, or United Arab Emirates?


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

This always happens. Dicussions always stray far from the point they started at. I'd lying in stating that I didn't have an involvement in it though


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> The part of the paying-off, for something that I don't know in which way will benefit Kenya. Maybe the export of tea and coffee.



So, the part that's the US' fault is offering the Kenyan government concessions not to drill?  That's like saying it's "my fault" that I pay rent on a house.


----------



## Dark Geared God (Mar 6, 2010)

CaptRichArund said:


> is it true asian chicks have horizontal pussies? I've never seen one .. . .


 + 2  

i love PI


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> lets for a second hypothetically explore the notion that the US never got involved in Iraq. we never supported a dictator, and we never overthrew him. we let Iraq choose their own form of government without interference from the get go. would the US be safer? would the region be safer? would the Iraqi people be safer? what do you think, would we get Egypt, or Lebanon? Afghanistan, or United Arab Emirates?



I don't think the safety of the US was ever directly an Issue.

As for the rest, it had been such a long running thing that it surely cannot be known what the outcome would have been.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> We are all guilty of it. Everybody sees "the truth" as the truth is only as much was what you know.



Which sort of invalidates your insinuation that, being American, that I don't know the reality of the US' involvements around the world.


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> Okay maybe I under-exxagerated Saddam's death toll. But maybe if you'd stop seeing what I write the way you want you'd realise that I stated that the US (and UK as well) have killed hundreds of thousands, nearing millions. These are as a direct result. And this was for the benefit of their country, the benefit being car bombs and rebel violence and regional tensions.
> 
> Looks like your attempt at trying to make me look bad backfired. Again.



I don't need to make you look bad. you do that all by yourself. 

regional tensions were a part of Iraq before the US was ever involved. blaming the US for that is asinine. I also think it is stupid blaming the US for Iraqi's killing Iraqi's, but that's just me.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Which sort of invalidates your insinuation that, being American, that I don't know the reality of the US' involvements around the world.



When I made the statement about your probably not knowing the full truths about your government, it wasn't because you were American. It was just because you seemed to be fully supporting your government. I personally, will never fully support any government, except maybe the Qatarian one, or a country that has no relations with any other countries.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> So, the part that's the US' fault is offering the Kenyan government concessions not to drill?  That's like saying it's "my fault" that I pay rent on a house.



Call it a gun to the head. If someone makes you commit a crime with a gun to your head, you're responsible for doing it but you had to do it for the benefit of your body, or country. If he then sugarcoats it with giving you a small part of the gains, it doesn't remove his influence on you.

Imagine if Kenya did drill and extracted the oil against the US' will and there was a break in relations and the US had tension with Kenya. It would look bad for the US due to the reasoning. Therefore they sugarcoated the thing with some bribes for the highups to keep a lid on it.


----------



## DOMS (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> When I made the statement about your probably not knowing the full truths about your government, it wasn't because you were American. It was just because you seemed to be fully supporting your government. I personally, will never fully support any government, except maybe the Qatarian one, or a country that has no relations with any other countries.



Where did get the impression that I fully support my government?  I can't even stand the current president.

I do however, believe that my country is one of the better ones.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> I don't need to make you look bad. you do that all by yourself.
> 
> regional tensions were a part of Iraq before the US was ever involved. blaming the US for that is asinine. I also think it is stupid blaming the US for Iraqi's killing Iraqi's, but that's just me.



Lol? Okay, let me make this a bit more simple. I'll give you a situation of aggressive dogs. Put them together and they'll fight to the death. It might be their fault for killing each other but its you who put them together.
Mike Vick & dog fighting, anyone?


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Where did get the impression that I fully support my government?  I can't even stand the current president.
> 
> I do however, believe that my country is one of the better ones.



It seemed so. Just how it seemed I was making the statement just because you were American.

That's cos he's black isn't it 

He's better than that bush fag anyways. Can't believe he ran two terms with no dirty work.


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> I don't think the safety of the US was ever directly an Issue.



had you been an American who went through 9-11 you might have felt differently. 

Both parties in our government who saw our intelligence agreed that Iraq was a threat. (remember that these parties don't agree on anything). 

As it appears now the intelligence was wrong, but I don't feel the government knew that at the time. all of humanity must make choices based upon the available information of the time. I don't blame the president or congress for choosing to go in Iraq and removing an evil dictator on par with hitler.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

Good night homos. Been nice chatting. But my bed is calling me at 4:21 AM.


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> Lol? Okay, let me make this a bit more simple. I'll give you a situation of aggressive dogs. Put them together and they'll fight to the death. It might be their fault for killing each other but its you who put them together.
> Mike Vick & dog fighting, anyone?



so its better that the Iraqi's lived under a dictator who murdered them?

I can't believe I'm arguing with a guy who is living under the protection and benefiting from the opportunities that the evil western world provides.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> had you been an American who went through 9-11 you might have felt differently.
> 
> Both parties in our government who saw our intelligence agreed that Iraq was a threat. (remember that these parties don't agree on anything).
> 
> As it appears now the intelligence was wrong, but I don't feel the government knew that at the time. all of humanity must make choices based upon the available information of the time. I don't blame the president or congress for choosing to go in Iraq and removing an evil dictator on par with hitler.



OKay honestly I was saddened with 9-11 and I'm sad such a tragedy could occur.

But the person behind it was funded by the US government in the past. Guess it came back to bite you in the back.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> so its better that the Iraqi's lived under a dictator who murdered them?
> 
> I can't believe I'm arguing with a guy who is living under the protection and benefiting from the opportunities that the evil western world provides.



what can I say? I never came here out of choice.

Let me speak on something I have experience in. Kenya had a dictator before who killed people who even spoke badly of him. However it was a nice place and also safe.

However now, even though the security in the capital is much better, with the new president things like corruption, police-related crimes and things that weren't a problem before, are much more rife.

There is a price for "freedom".


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> But the person behind it was funded by the US government in the past. Guess it came back to bite you in the back.



Care to show me where we funded osama? we helped fund the fighters against the soviet union in afghanistan, of which osama was a part, but we didn't fund osama.


----------



## T_man (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> Care to show me where we funded osama? we helped fund the fighters against the soviet union in afghanistan, of which osama was a part, but we didn't fund osama.



He wasn't funded for the attacks. Well I don't have any documentation to show it. But the snowball started rolling when the US funded him to help fight the soviet union. Sort of like a grenade that was thrown too close.


----------



## Dark Geared God (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> so its better that the Iraqi's lived under a dictator who murdered them?
> 
> I can't believe I'm arguing with a guy who is living under the protection and benefiting from the opportunities that the evil western world provides.


 
well he's the kind of guy that doesn't mind getting thrown in a woodchipper..


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> what can I say? I never came here out of choice.
> 
> Let me speak on something I have experience in. Kenya had a dictator before who killed people who even spoke badly of him. However it was a nice place and also safe.
> 
> ...



Ben Franklin once said "those who would sacrifice a bit of their liberty for a little bit of security deserve neither liberty nor security"


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

T_man said:


> He wasn't funded for the attacks. Well I don't have any documentation to show it. But the snowball started rolling when the US funded him to help fight the soviet union. Sort of like a grenade that was thrown too close.



we didn't fund osama. you do know he was independently wealthy right? the mans father was a billionaire


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## bio-chem (Mar 6, 2010)

The Situation said:


> well he's the kind of guy that doesn't mind getting thrown in a woodchipper..



now you are using two coffee icons. nice. lol'd


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## Tesla (Mar 6, 2010)




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## Dark Geared God (Mar 6, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> now you are using two coffee icons. nice. lol'd


 
Gotta keep them guessing..


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## Tesla (Mar 6, 2010)




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## Dark Geared God (Mar 6, 2010)




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## Tesla (Mar 6, 2010)




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## theCaptn' (Mar 6, 2010)

this is one gay thread . . what do you think, Pony?


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## Tesla (Mar 6, 2010)

CaptRichArund said:


> this is one gay thread . . what do you think, Pony?


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## Saney (Mar 6, 2010)




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## bandaidwoman (Mar 7, 2010)

T_man said:


> When I made the statement about your probably not knowing the full truths about your government, it wasn't because you were American. It was just because you seemed to be fully supporting your government. I personally, will never fully support any government, except maybe the Qatarian one, or a country that has no relations with any other countries.



The American government is a great government and I support it but it does have a confusing amnestic foreign policy

America supported funded and lobbied for POL POt, then we erased that memory from the public and turned into the good guy that helped fight his genocidal regime

We supported and funded the Taliban ( despite feminist humanity groups warning against it) so we could support our agenda against Russsia. Now, we are showing the world we are leading the fight against them

We supported funded Sadam during the Iraq, Iran war, now we actively dismembered the regime .  We promote democracy only after we have used its dictatorial regime for our own ends. 

Pinochet, Batista,  many south american dictators ( nicuaragua, panamanian dictators etc. ), the list goes on. 

It's very confusing to the outside world,almost schizophrenic, we lobby for democracy but support dictators who are the antithesis of democracy.  but as my Dad said, at the time it served our political agenda and nationalistic fortification . He will not apologize for his efforts in the CIA even though he knows the truth of our inconcistent foreign policy.   That is why as much as I dislike my home county's suppression of tibetian nationalistic self determinancy, it is only in the national interest of fortification ( tibet provides the best natural barrier from potential invasion from a rising super power, south Asia) that I cannot condemn them since every great super power, including this one, must sometimes do what is necessary to protect itself.  Almost a political "survival of the fittest", natural evolution playing out in politics.  As such, we are all culpable of violating some basic ethical tenets.


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## DOMS (Mar 7, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> I can't believe I'm arguing with a guy who is living under the protection and benefiting from the opportunities that the evil western world provides.



Best post of the thread.


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## Saney (Mar 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> but as my Dad said,



Fuck your dad!


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 7, 2010)

Sanesloot said:


> Fuck your dad!




He is a great american, served in Air America, lead search and rescue in vietnam to save POWs, was a POW for three years, then after the war helped the cambodians flee from POl POt.

It's funny how if I said he was a war veteran, ( which he was) don't think anyone would have dispareged him. 

He spent 15 years in Indochina furthering the interest of our government, my Taiwanese mom included. 

By the way, why don't you refute everything I just posted.  All I did was support my dad's summnation with facts.  He is absolutely correct, we sometimes support oppressive regimes ,Pol Pot, Taliban, saddam, Pinochet, Batista, Ortega, etc to futher our national interests, nothing wrong with that. I don't idealize my government by denying the facts.  It is a dog eat dog world, and every country does what it needs to to survive. I don't blindly deny China's culpability in some heinous acts in her right for national protection.  Both super powers needs to do what it needs to do to survive. We asians are inherently practical and less idealistic. We have a saying, wear one mask for one situation and another for a different situation.   T


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 7, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Where did get the impression that I fully support my government?  I can't even stand the current president.
> 
> I do however, believe that my country is one of the better ones.



 What is so great about this country is we can publicly oppose foreign policy or agendas and never have to fear for our lives.  If I was on the chinese internet blogging forum and I criticized chinese policy or president as heavily as you and I have, we  both would probably be in jail and dead.  

This is why such  healthy disagreements is so invigorating to someone like me.


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## DOMS (Mar 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> It's very confusing to the outside world,almost schizophrenic, we lobby for democracy but support dictators who are the antithesis of democracy.  but as my Dad said, at the time it served our political agenda and nationalistic fortification . He will not apologize for his efforts in the CIA even though he knows the truth of our inconcistent foreign policy.   That is why as much as I dislike my home county's suppression of tibetian nationalistic self determinancy, it is only in the national interest of fortification ( tibet provides the best natural barrier from potential invasion from a rising super power, south Asia) that I cannot condemn them since every great super power, including this one, must sometimes do what is necessary to protect itself.  Almost a political "survival of the fittest", natural evolution playing out in politics.  As such, we are all culpable of violating some basic ethical tenets.



Your dad was right.  

During the Cold War, the US was forced to make alliances it might otherwise have done.  They had to pick the lesser of two evils, and often, the lesser evil came back to bite them in the ass.

Oh, and the US never backed Pol Pot.  Erasing?  Hardly.  There's nothing to erase.  I've read up on it.  The people that make the accusations never have any proof.  There are plenty of other times that the US backed a dictator, and there's plenty of proof of those, but the proof relating to the US backing of Pol Pot just mysteriously vanished?  _Riiight..._


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## theCaptn' (Mar 7, 2010)

rock out to the DK bitches







YouTube Video


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## DOMS (Mar 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> What is so great about this country is we can publicly oppose foreign policy or agendas and never have to fear for our lives.  If I was on the chinese internet blogging forum and I criticized chinese policy or president as heavily as you and I have, we  both would probably be in jail and dead.
> 
> This is why such  healthy disagreements is so invigorating to someone like me.



Very true.

After I logged off last night, as I was getting ready for bed, I had an interesting train of thought.

I've spent plenty of time in this thread pointing out what's wrong with other countries.  Then you or T_Man would try to equate it to the USA.  Which you couldn't really do.  But I thought, the US is far from perfect, so what is the USA doing that's against the people?  Then I had the realization that the crimes the US government does against its people are not overt.

When we talk about the evils that China or Niger commit on their people, it's really easy to see--they're overt.  They kill, enslaves, and rob them of freedom.  First world countries have moved past these more obvious actions.  Their problems most third world nations haven't had to really deal with yet.  Yeah, item one sort of happens there, but it's not usually corporations, it's the governments.

Ways in which the US government is perpetrating evils on its citizens:
1) Taking away personal freedoms and rights to ensure that corporations can make a profit.
2) Not regulating health care.  I don't for a second buy into socialist medicine, but the health care companies collude to keep raising prices.  Even Obama, the great _socialator_, won't stop it.
3) Subverting the capitalist system by artificially supporting companies.
4) Polarizing the people so that they're easier to control.
5) Using American lives, and our resources, trying to spread our way of life to other people.  Most of which it wouldn't ever work for anyway.

Anyway, that's what I think is wrong with the US.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 7, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Your dad was right.
> 
> During the Cold War, the US was forced to make alliances it might otherwise have done.  They had to pick the lesser of two evils, and often, the lesser evil came back to bite them in the ass.
> 
> Oh, and the US never backed Pol Pot.  Erasing?  .[/I]




respectully  disagree on the latter, the carpet bombings in camodia is no secret and neither is US CIA funding of Pol POt ( there  is a great book called  Air America, my dad is the Great white refrigetor in there).  But once again, it was our last ditch effort to undermine Vietnamese efforts and control in the INdochina region, to overthrow the Vietnamese backed government of Prime Minister Hun Sen.  This is standard textbook in Malaysia and Japan and Taiwan.  

By the way, the Malaysians applauded US entry into the Vietnam war, Ho chi minh had 90,000 troops poised to gain control over malaysia and Thailand ( they have the teakwood and rubber industries that ho covetted)  Wiht americ's entry into the war he gave up his efforts on Malaysia and Thailand. I tell all my americans who opposed the vietnam war it saved some of the most prosperous captialistic nations in the pacific rim.


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## DOMS (Mar 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> respectully  disagree on the latter, the carpet bombings in camodia is no secret and neither is US CIA funding of Pol POt ( there  is a great book called  Air America, my dad is the Great white refrigetor in there).  But once again, it was our last ditch effort to undermine Vietnamese efforts in the Indochina war.



I agree that we did a lot of stuff trying to stop the Vietnamese.  It's even possible that Pol Pot _benefited from our actions_, but the US never did anything that was meant to support him.  There's a difference.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 7, 2010)

DOMS said:


> I agree that we did a lot of stuff trying to stop the Vietnamese.  It's even possible that Pol Pot _benefited from our actions_, but the US never did anything that was meant to support him.  There's a difference.



I see, once again, I sometimes misunderstand the nuance of the english language. But I can say that from an Asian perspective it "looked" supportive.


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## GearsMcGilf (Mar 7, 2010)

I never understood why we supported Pol Pot, a butcher, but demonized a leader like Stalin.  It's no shocker that Russians still revere him today.  Here's a man who could take an illiteralte peasant and turn him into a great general.  How could you not love a leader like that?


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## DOMS (Mar 7, 2010)

GearsMcGilf said:


> I never understood why we supported Pol Pot, a butcher, but demonized a leader like Stalin.  It's no shocker that Russians still revere him today.  Here's a man who could take an illiteralte peasant and turn him into a great general.  How could you not love a leader like that?



We didn't.


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## bandaidwoman (Mar 7, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Ways in which the US government is perpetrating evils on its citizens:
> 1) Taking away personal freedoms and rights to ensure that corporations can make a profit.
> 2) Not regulating health care.  I don't for a second buy into socialist medicine, but the health care companies collude to keep raising prices.  Even Obama, the great _socialator_, won't stop it.
> 3) Subverting the capitalist system by artificially supporting companies.
> ...




Unfortunately, the one problem with democracy is that "mob rule" can take over and elect a government body that does just the above.  This "mob rule "is glaringly apparent when Serb, croatia, etc. went democratic.  It is the one glaring price of a true democracy.  In europe, if the immigrant radical  muslims start becoming the majority and vote for a governing body that follow insane radical shia laws. who is to stop them?  Democracy caters to the majority.

I have always  felt a benevolant totalitarian government is the best and most efficient ( efficiency we can see in china, benevolent, no) form of government. Unfortunately, you are victim to the whims of the totalitarian governent once it changes its mind.....

America I think has one upmanship on most democracies , it is primarirly a republic , as such it still trys to protect the rights of the minority. ( for good or bad).  For instance, though it is a majority christian country, my beliefs as an athiest is protected without prosecution. Unfortunately, so are the beliefs of wierdo scientologists, etc.   I believe Jefferson once said that it was incumbant upon the majority to protect the rights of the minority.  I may be paraphrasing so forgive me. It is this singulare fact, best stated by thomas jefferson that makes immigrants like us proud and unafraid to be an AMerican.


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## DOMS (Mar 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Unfortunately, the one problem with democracy is that "mob rule" can take over and elect a government body that does just the above.  This "mob rule "is glaringly apparent when Serb, croatia, etc. went democratic.  It is the one glaring price of a true democracy.  In europe, if the immigrant radical  muslims start becoming the majority and vote for a governing body that follow insane radical shia laws. who is to stop them?  Democracy caters to the majority.
> 
> I have always  felt a benevolant totalitarian government is the best and most efficient ( efficiency we can see in china, benevolent, no) form of government. Unfortunately, you are victim to the whims of the totalitarian governent once it changes its mind.....
> 
> America I think has one upmanship on most democracies , it is primarirly a republic , as such it still trys to protect the rights of the minority. ( for good or bad).  For instance, though it is a majority christian country, my beliefs as an athiest is protected without prosecution. Unfortunately, so are the beliefs of wierdo scientologists, etc.   I believe Jefferson once said that it was incumbant upon the majority to protect the rights of the minority.  I may be paraphrasing so forgive me. It is this singulare fact, best stated by thomas jefferson that makes immigrants like us proud and unafraid to be an AMerican.



Yeah, you can't have it both ways.  You protect all or you protect none.

Like I said, I'm doing my own research and, conincedently, I've been looking for an exmaple of a benevolent totalitarian government.  The closest that I could find is Swaziland.  It's an absolute monarchy.  The conditions there are bad (about 50% HIV infection rate and poverty), but the people love their king and seem, overall, to be happy.


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 7, 2010)

CaptRichArund said:


> this is one gay thread . . what do you think, Pony?


 
What was this thread about?


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 7, 2010)

DOMS said:


> I agree that we did a lot of stuff trying to stop the Vietnamese. It's even possible that Pol Pot _benefited from our actions_, but the US never did anything that was meant to support him. There's a difference.


 
them slopes have sum good Pho soup


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 7, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Yeah, you can't have it both ways. You protect all or you protect none.
> 
> Like I said, I'm doing my own research and, conincedently, I've been looking for an exmaple of a benevolent totalitarian government. The closest that I could find is Swaziland. It's an absolute monarchy. The conditions there are bad (about 50% HIV infection rate and poverty), but the people love their king and seem, overall, to be happy.


 
Whats a little HIV..among friends


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## KelJu (Mar 7, 2010)

The Situation said:


> What was this thread about?



Niggers!


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 7, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Niggers!


 
Ah that right ...niggers.. why did we give them the right to vote again?..


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## KelJu (Mar 7, 2010)

The Situation said:


> Ah that right ...niggers.. why did we give them the right to vote again?..



Because a bunch touchy feely pre-liberal fags thought that they were like us white people. 

You know this country would would have been so much better had we left those good for nothing spear chuckers in Africa. 

God bless the South and God Bless America.


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 7, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Because a bunch touchy feely pre-liberal fags thought that they were like us white people.
> 
> You know this country would would have been so much better had we left those good for nothing spear chuckers in Africa.
> 
> God bless the South and God Bless America.


 
Sorry to say my family helped import them here..


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## Tesla (Mar 7, 2010)

The Situation said:


> Sorry to say my family helped import them here..


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 7, 2010)

Ponyshow said:


>


 

But i don't feel guilt because lets face it. they have a better life now than they would have if they were still in africa. i would like a thank you. no shit.


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## Tesla (Mar 7, 2010)

The Situation said:


> But i don't feel guilt because lets face it. they have a better life now than they would have if they were still in africa. i would like a thank you. no shit.


 

Thanks, Sitch.........


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 7, 2010)

Yep!


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## sprayherup (Mar 8, 2010)

The nigs should be thankful they were brought over here. If it weren't for that they'd be over in Afrikka throwing spears, living in dirt huts, going hungry and dying of all kinds of diseases.

And now we're paying for it. Literally.


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## min0 lee (Mar 8, 2010)

I just had interracial sex and I am actually getting a kick out of all these replies.


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## KelJu (Mar 8, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> I just had interracial sex and I am actually getting a kick out of all these replies.



I'm envious. Women of other races are very interesting and attractive to me. If they have an accent it is 10 times hotter. 

Even an ugly foreign chick is hot to me.


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## bio-chem (Mar 8, 2010)

KelJu said:


> I'm envious. Women of other races are very interesting and attractive to me. If they have an accent it is 10 times hotter.
> 
> Even an ugly foreign chick is hot to me.



lol'd, this reminds me of a conversation i was having with a friend. we were debating the attractiveness of a girl and he was adamant that she was unattractive. he then followed it up with "don't get me wrong, I'd still do her" the rest of us were left speechless


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## DOMS (Mar 8, 2010)

KelJu said:


> I'm envious. Women of other races are very interesting and attractive to me. If they have an accent it is 10 times hotter.
> 
> Even an ugly foreign chick is hot to me.



*Mr. F*





.
.
.
.
.
.


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## bio-chem (Mar 8, 2010)

^^^wth is MR F?


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## DOMS (Mar 8, 2010)

Mr. F is a character on Arrested Development.

*SPOILER*

Charlize Theron plays a girl named Rita.  She mentally retarded, but no catches on that she's retarded because she's British with the (as some Americans see it) highbrow British accent.  

Mr. F = Mentally Retarded Female


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## bio-chem (Mar 8, 2010)

thats the best looking retard i've ever seen


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## sprayherup (Mar 8, 2010)

Word. I would love to hang a few chin omelettes on her face.


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 8, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> I just had interracial sex and I am actually getting a kick out of all these replies.


 
mandicko got ya


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