# trt, blast and cruise



## buddyrocks (Apr 14, 2012)

Being on TRT .5 armidex, 500iu hcg, and 90mg Test E3D, is it ok to never pct? Meaning always just blast and cruise.


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## Standard Donkey (Apr 14, 2012)

trt is for life brah.

blast and cruising should be as well imo.


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## the_predator (Apr 15, 2012)

When you have made the decision to cruise or be on trt the rest of your life, you have no reason for pct because there is never a "post cycle".


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## Glycomann (Apr 15, 2012)

The term TRT gets bandied about pretty liberally.  I think most guys on "TRT" really don't need to be and use the term to justify always being on. Then after 2, 3, 4 years of this "TRT" they really do need TRT because they have fried their HPTA.  It's sad really that today's cast of characters can't seem to come off the drugs and bear the mild discomfort of shrinking up a little.


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## Standard Donkey (Apr 15, 2012)

Glycomann said:


> The term TRT gets bandied about pretty liberally. I think most guys on "TRT" really don't need to be and use the term to justify always being on. Then after 2, 3, 4 years of this "TRT" they really do need TRT because they have fried their HPTA. It's sad really that today's cast of characters can't seem to come off the drugs and bear the mild discomfort of shrinking up a little.



according to studies, the hpta can recover even after years of aas use, it just takes a long time, especially when recovering drugs arent used.


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## Glycomann (Apr 15, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> according to studies, the hpta can recover even after years of aas use, it just takes a long time, especially when recovering drugs arent used.



That's part of the problem.  They come off and if in 3 months they still feel off back on they go.  Personally I had to go off for over a year back in the 80s before I recovered (deca days).  I'm in my 50s and still recover.  Last time in under 3 months. If you really look through the old footage of the golden era with Arnold and Franco, Zane, Lou, Draper, Pearl.  All those guys used but they went off.  Today most of them are in their late 60s or older and still healthy and sometimes pretty jacked. The guys that have problems a ways down the road are the ones who are addicted to the persona they have made for themselves that required that they are jacked.  The ego becomes entangled with the drug life style. My advice is to come off periodically. Change gear a bit while off.  Get into different kind of shape.  Go running.  Play in a soccer league.  Learn to box or grapple and do it 3, 4, 5 months a year while you are off. Then when you're recovered and in great shape get back to it ready and insides all recovered for another round of growth.


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## Standard Donkey (Apr 15, 2012)

well of course you're not going to feel as great with test levels at 500 instead of multiple thousands lol.. that's a given, but it definitely is a mind thing that must be conquered if someone is ever to fully come off.


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## independent (Apr 15, 2012)

Glycomann said:


> That's part of the problem.  They come off and if in 3 months they still feel off back on they go.  Personally I had to go off for over a year back in the 80s before I recovered (deca days).  I'm in my 50s and still recover.  Last time in under 3 months. If you really look through the old footage of the golden era with Arnold and Franco, Zane, Lou, Draper, Pearl.  All those guys used but they went off.  Today most of them are in their late 60s or older and still healthy and sometimes pretty jacked. The guys that have problems a ways down the road are the ones who are addicted to the persona they have made for themselves that required that they are jacked.  The ego becomes entangled with the drug life style. My advice is to come off periodically. Change gear a bit while off.  Get into different kind of shape.  Go running.  Play in a soccer league.  Learn to box or grapple and do it 3, 4, 5 months a year while you are off. Then when you're recovered and in great shape get back to it ready and insides all recovered for another round of growth.



Do you think its nessecary to come off true trt. Im on 150mg of test and hcg a week. My natty levels are 350 average.


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## exphys88 (Apr 15, 2012)

This is a good question. If you truly do trt and maintain normal test levels, is there a reason to let your levels tank?


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## Standard Donkey (Apr 15, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> This is a good question. If you truly do trt and maintain normal test levels, is there a reason to let your levels tank?



if you want to be depressed, frail, and suffer health difficulties, then yes


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## exphys88 (Apr 15, 2012)

Why would a consistent test level of 800-1000 make you frail or depressed?


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## Standard Donkey (Apr 15, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> This is a good question. If you truly do trt and maintain normal test levels, *is there a reason to let your levels tank?*



was responding to the bolded part


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## exphys88 (Apr 15, 2012)

Yeah, I realized that after my post, I mis read it.  I am curious to hear glycos opinion though, he's usually spot on.  I do know that some guys have issues w high rbc that can't always be remedied w blood donations.  Dr scaly has discussed it.


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## buddyrocks (Apr 15, 2012)

I just do not see any reason for PCT since I am on TRT. My normal levels had dropped into the low one hundreds when I started TRT. I see no reason to do any kind of post cycle therapy and just keep using my adex, hcg, and tapper my test cyp back to only about 200-250mg a week. 200mg a week is my normal test cyp TRT treatment. I figure after cycle just do my normal TRT for two months or so and then cycle again. Any reasons on why I should not do this?


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## Glycomann (Apr 16, 2012)

bigmoe65 said:


> Do you think its nessecary to come off true trt. Im on 150mg of test and hcg a week. My natty levels are 350 average.



How was your natural level measured? Were you coming off of a series of cycles within the last 12 months? Were you obese at the time? Was their a lot of stress in your life at the time?  Were you working out?


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## Glycomann (Apr 16, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> This is a good question. If you truly do trt and maintain normal test levels, is there a reason to let your levels tank?



sometimes blood maker s become out of range on TRT.  In those cases it is sometimes necessary to come off therapy to get under control.  Again, I often wonder who truly needs TRT and who simply got measured before fully recovering after cycling.


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## Glycomann (Apr 16, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> Why would a consistent test level of 800-1000 make you frail or depressed?



Right exactly.  Guys get spoiled with test levels in the 3000 range. What also gets lost in this is testosterone levels respond to external stimuli in the normal male. this is part of normal physiology.  When on injectable esters this is not the case.  The androgen leel is non responsive to all stimuli and is sustained in supraphysiologic ranges when over normal range.


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## Glycomann (Apr 16, 2012)

buddyrocks said:


> I just do not see any reason for PCT since I am on TRT. My normal levels had dropped into the low one hundreds when I started TRT. I see no reason to do any kind of post cycle therapy and just keep using my adex, hcg, and tapper my test cyp back to only about 200-250mg a week. 200mg a week is my normal test cyp TRT treatment. I figure after cycle just do my normal TRT for two months or so and then cycle again. Any reasons on why I should not do this?


Keep an eye on your health markers (blood, BP heart rate).  That's what tells you if you are OK.  As it stands you are never in normal range most likely with your current protocol.


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## independent (Apr 16, 2012)

Glycomann said:


> How was your natural level measured? Were you coming off of a series of cycles within the last 12 months? Were you obese at the time? Was their a lot of stress in your life at the time?  Were you working out?



Previous cycle was 17 years ago.

Not obese, around 12% b.f.

Always stress, lol.

Yes I have been very consistent working out.


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## Glycomann (Apr 16, 2012)

bigmoe65 said:


> Do you think its nessecary to come off true trt. Im on 150mg of test and hcg a week. My natty levels are 350 average.



Got to go by bloodwork.  Maybe OK to stay on forever but if your bloodwork/BP/EKG are off then off you go. 350 still in normal range.  Test levels fluctuate.  Rule of thumb is to only treat with TRT after 3 consecutive low readings.


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## Standard Donkey (Apr 16, 2012)

Glycomann said:


> Got to go by bloodwork.  Maybe OK to stay on forever but if your bloodwork/BP/EKG are off then off you go. 350 still in normal range.  Test levels fluctuate.  Rule of thumb is to only treat with TRT after 3 consecutive low readings.



"normal range" in this context might as well mean "shitty to less shitty to decent"


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## Glycomann (Apr 16, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> "normal range" in this context might as well mean "shitty to less shitty to decent"



Most guys don't have a clue how the endocrine system really works.  Everybody holds up their last test reading like it's their dick length.  Test levels fluctuate according to all sorts of stimuli. You can be in a soccer game and if your team wins your test level could go, for instance, from 600 to 750. If you loose it could go from 600 to 400. Single readings mean just about fuck all. That's why the rule is 3 consecutive low readings.  WE are talking true TRT treatment here.  Not some clinic in south Beach FLA. 

As an aside, I think it's important to keep in mind that interests and goals change throughout life. It's not a bad idea to take steps so you can recover tather than juice hard and heavy for a decade without a break. TRT clinics are mostly a scam that pray on guys like us that cycle and feel like shit all when off for a couple months.  Then they swoop in, do a quick lab test, find that you are low test ( big surprise) and boom you are on you 300-400 mg/w for years.  Then try to recover.. lots harder and a possible patient for life. If you're not on legit TRT then do yourself a favor and come off for a good long while at least once a year.


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## BFHammer (Apr 16, 2012)

Glycomann said:


> Most guys don't have a clue how the endocrine system really works.  Everybody holds up their last test reading like it's their dick length.  Test levels fluctuate according to all sorts of stimuli. You can be in a soccer game and if your team wins your test level could go, for instance, from 600 to 750. If you loose it could go from 600 to 400. Single readings mean just about fuck all. That's why the rule is 3 consecutive low readings.  WE are talking true TRT treatment here.  Not some clinic in south Beach FLA.
> 
> As an aside, I think it's important to keep in mind that interests and goals change throughout life. It's not a bad idea to take steps so you can recover tather than juice hard and heavy for a decade without a break. TRT clinics are mostly a scam that pray on guys like us that cycle and feel like shit all when off for a couple months.  Then they swoop in, do a quick lab test, find that you are low test ( big surprise) and boom you are on you 300-400 mg/w for years.  Then try to recover.. lots harder and a possible patient for life. If you're not on legit TRT then do yourself a favor and come off for a good long while at least once a year.


I'm on "legit" TRT.  The kind where they never told me about HCG, AI's or that my fat built up from 20 years of sub 400 test. They won't even raise it above 200/eow despite me feeling like crap.  They are not allowed to write for HCG or AI because the VA doesn't allow anything offlabel.  
Clinic here I come.  Plus the one I found is less than UG prices for the meds.


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## buddyrocks (Apr 16, 2012)

Glycomann said:


> Keep an eye on your health markers (blood, BP heart rate).  That's what tells you if you are OK.  As it stands you are never in normal range most likely with your current protocol.



No my T levels dropped off slow and my doctors did blood work, ct scan, mri, etc and assume my body is just not producing like it did. Thoughts are on my high level of athletics I did until 25 years ols, when I stopped for awhile and began only lifting weights my body stopped producing at the same level. Just a theory my doctors had, because they could not find a reason.


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## buddyrocks (Apr 16, 2012)

My bp was high and I am on meds for it. All my other labs were great, cholesterol, rbc, pulse, etc are in normal ranges.


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