# How much cardio is too much?



## TheRoyalOne (Jan 24, 2005)

I've finally gotten back into training at full steam. No more BS workouts in my garage. I've joined a gym and have been using a recumbent bike to get back into shape. Beginning of week one 20-25 minutes on "fat burn" was a challenge. By the end of week 2, 45min on "interval" became easy. Now here at the beginning of week 3, after an hour on the elliptical trainer, I'm ready for a full body workout. D@mn I feel great! I guess you can say I'm doing a cutting cycle right now. Other than possible over training, is an hour a day too much at 70-90% maximum heart rate? I've been doing a push/pull/leg split on the weights also

Current stats are:
6'0"
~225lbs
about 21% BF  (guess based on waist size and total body weight.


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## sabre81 (Jan 24, 2005)

unoless you have a heart condition or something, i would say theres no such thing as too much cardio.


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## TheRoyalOne (Jan 24, 2005)

Last I checked my heart was pretty strong. My BP is normal and my resting pulse is around 50 BPM. When doing cardio, I usually keep it between 135 and 160, two minutes on the high side then two on the low.


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## SlimShady (Jan 24, 2005)

It all depends on your goals. If your main focus is to lose weight, then cardio should be a priority. If you are mixing weights with cardio, make sure you do your weight training first, then follow it up with cardio last. (I think once you try this, you'll see that you might not be as fit as you think you are.)

 Personally, I don't go over 25 minutes with cardio. Do your maximum intensity for 20 minutes, followed by a 5 minute cool down. It beats the hell out of those boring "fat burning" 60 minute sessions and accomplishes more. Look into HIT cardio or Max-OT cardio... same principle.  I used to do cardio right after each weight session, but now that I've lost my gut, I only do cardio on off days when I don't lift. 

 Remember, if you aren't sweating, you need more intensity. Good luck.


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## TheRoyalOne (Jan 24, 2005)

I found some info on Max OT -Cardio this weekend. I was going to start my Max OT session today and add Max OT Cardio to the non lifting days (1-2/week), but I've been feeling so good after these cardio sessions, I decided to continue with them for a couple more weeks. By then I should have my order from Bulknutrition.com and my workout log put together. I've been weight training off and on for the past 10 years. Mostly off due to a back injury eight years ago. Because of my BF% i've never been able to really appreciate what muscle I have put on. The way I see it for now, I am going to lower my BF% hopefully to the low teens and then start bulking. I've never had a problem adding weight. I picked up 14-16 pounds during my last M1T cycle


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## DeadBolt (Jan 24, 2005)

SlimShady said:
			
		

> It all depends on your goals. If your main focus is to lose weight, then cardio should be a priority. If you are mixing weights with cardio, make sure you do your weight training first, then follow it up with cardio last. (I think once you try this, you'll see that you might not be as fit as you think you are.)
> 
> Personally, I don't go over 25 minutes with cardio. Do your maximum intensity for 20 minutes, followed by a 5 minute cool down. It beats the hell out of those boring "fat burning" 60 minute sessions and accomplishes more. Look into HIT cardio or Max-OT cardio... same principle.  I used to do cardio right after each weight session, but now that I've lost my gut, I only do cardio on off days when I don't lift.
> 
> Remember, if you aren't sweating, you need more intensity. Good luck.



DIET..is key not cardio to lose weight.  Cardio should be a tweak towards the end of a cut when progress comes to a hault.  If you do to mucbh cardio now your body will adapt...thats its nature...and you will be up shits creek come times where progrees stops.

There a several forms of cardio and I feel there is a place for all of them.  Cycle through them if you are doing cardio just don't do one form.  Max-ot cardio or HIIT may work for now but in time you may want to try and switch it up for some better results...keeps the body guessing.  Cardio is just like weights it needs to be varied.

But again DIET should be your main focus right now not so much cardio.


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## SlimShady (Jan 24, 2005)

DeadBolt said:
			
		

> DIET..is key not cardio to lose weight. Cardio should be a tweak towards the end of a cut when progress comes to a hault. If you do to mucbh cardio now your body will adapt...thats its nature...and you will be up shits creek come times where progrees stops.


 I disagee 100% with what you've posted. The key to losing weight is to burn more energy than you ingest. Period. Diet plays a signifigant role in the process, but he didn't ask about diet. He asked about cardio... Cardio ups the amount of calories burned by the body, and it is a proven component in weight loss. You could do cardio for 3 hours per day for three years, and three years from now it will still burn calories... Your body may get fitter, and it may become more adept at doing the workout, but if you keep intensity high, cardio will ALWAYS use energy. Progress will never halt.

 Telling someone "not to do cardio because it will result in your body adapting and you'll be up shit creek" is like saying not to lift weights because your muscles will grow and you'll have to lift more later.... that's crazy.


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## Velvet (Jan 24, 2005)




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## DeadBolt (Jan 24, 2005)

SlimShady said:
			
		

> I disagee 100% with what you've posted. The key to losing weight is to burn more energy than you ingest. Period. Diet plays a signifigant role in the process, but he didn't ask about diet. He asked about cardio... Cardio ups the amount of calories burned by the body, and it is a proven component in weight loss. You could do cardio for 3 hours per day for three years, and three years from now it will still burn calories... Your body may get fitter, and it may become more adept at doing the workout, but if you keep intensity high, cardio will ALWAYS use energy. Progress will never halt.
> 
> Telling someone "not to do cardio because it will result in your body adapting and you'll be up shit creek" is like saying not to lift weights because your muscles will grow and you'll have to lift more later.... that's crazy.


Trust what you want but its true.  If you perform to much cardio now you will have a very hard time later in weight loss.  If he maintains his intensity with his weight training and keeps a STRICT diet then he shouldn't need cardio yet.  Especially at 21+ body fat.  But hell to each is own...


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## TheRoyalOne (Jan 24, 2005)

my diet is pretty much in-line with a cutting cycle. 5-6 meals/day lean meats and shakes for protien, fish oil caps for healthy fats and low gi carbs in the morning and early afternoon. I'm still working on my journal in regards to how many cal's I get from the various macro-nutrients. When I started doing all of this cardio, it was just to get my body prepared for the work to come. It doesn't do any good to lift heavy if you have to stop and take a breath because your're too tired from a warm up set.


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## SlimShady (Jan 24, 2005)

TheRoyalOne said:
			
		

> my diet is pretty much in-line with a cutting cycle. 5-6 meals/day lean meats and shakes for protien, fish oil caps for healthy fats and low gi carbs in the morning and early afternoon. I'm still working on my journal in regards to how many cal's I get from the various macro-nutrients. When I started doing all of this cardio, it was just to get my body prepared for the work to come. It doesn't do any good to lift heavy if you have to stop and take a breath because your're too tired from a warm up set.


 Exactly... You sound like you are in the same condition I was in, back in late Sept.  I used cardio to get in a decent physical shape and lose my gut. I was lifting too, and the combination of weights followed by cardio really worked. If you read enough BB forums, you'll see that a lot of people consider cardio to be a sin or something. They act like if you do cardio, you'll end up looking like a marathom runner.  Hell, I am 43 years old... I got no intention of becoming the next Jay Cutler.. all I wanted was to get in shape, and then grow some muscle. Cardio is healthy and it'll do the job for you.. once you get in decent shape, you can start working on adding mass. Just eat right, workout as much as you can and keep the level of intensity as high as possible. You'll do fine.


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## TheRoyalOne (Jan 24, 2005)

DeadBolt said:
			
		

> Trust what you want but its true.  If you perform to much cardio now you will have a very hard time later in weight loss.  If he maintains his intensity with his weight training and keeps a STRICT diet then he shouldn't need cardio yet.  Especially at 21+ body fat.  But hell to each is own...



This is the type of info I'm lookig for. It's been years since I've had the stamina to excercise at 70-90% for a full hour and it feels good to do so. I just don't want to over do it. Like I mentioned before, once I get my things from Bulknutrition.com and have my training/food logs ready, I will be doing my best to add on as much lean mass as possible. For now i just want to take advantage of the new found energy.


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## TheRoyalOne (Jan 24, 2005)

SlimShady said:
			
		

> Exactly... You sound like you are in the same condition I was in, back in late Sept.  I used cardio to get in a decent physical shape and lose my gut. I was lifting too, and the combination of weights followed by cardio really worked. If you read enough BB forums, you'll see that a lot of people consider cardio to be a sin or something. They act like if you do cardio, you'll end up looking like a marathom runner.  Hell, I am 43 years old... I got no intention of becoming the next Jay Cutler.. all I wanted was to get in shape, and then grow some muscle. Cardio is healthy and it'll do the job for you.. once you get in decent shape, you can start working on adding mass. Just eat right, workout as much as you can and keep the level of intensity as high as possible. You'll do fine.



So you see where I'm coming from. I have a decent build now but I need to loose this gut. I know too much cardio can cause the body to become catabolic, that's why I incorporate weights into my routine. Supplementing with l-glutamine helps too. I don't mind loosing a bit of muscle now if it means droping 4-5 inches from my waist. Building muscle has always been easy for me. Loosing the fat is the hard part.


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## SlimShady (Jan 24, 2005)

TheRoyalOne said:
			
		

> So you see where I'm coming from. I have a decent build now but I need to loose this gut. I know too much cardio can cause the body to become catabolic, that's why I incorporate weights into my routine. Supplementing with l-glutamine helps too. I don't mind loosing a bit of muscle now if it means droping 4-5 inches from my waist. Building muscle has always been easy for me. Loosing the fat is the hard part.


 Yeah, I know where you are at. I managed to drop 12 lbs and add an inch to my arms and chest in three months time. Like I said, I think one hour of cardio is overkill. I did it by cleaning up my diet and doing 20 minutes of high intensity cardio after my weight sessions and on off days. Now that I got most of the fat off (I still have some very small love handles, but nothing to worry about).. I am on a 3-day split and I'm doing cardio 3 times a week(only on my days when I don't lift), with one day off. 

 I'm gonna see how this new routine works out.. I don't want to lose anymore weight, but I do want to lose a little more fat. My main goal is to add some lean mass now. If I see that I'm gaining fat, I'll add more cardio sessions. But, if I see any more pounds drop off the scale, I'll cut back on cardio even more. (Plus, manipulate my diet at the same time). It's one big balancing act... the best part is, you can adjust everything as you go. You just have to see what works best for you.


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## DeadBolt (Jan 24, 2005)

TheRoyalOne said:
			
		

> I don't mind loosing a bit of muscle


I never understand this when people say it....


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## DeadBolt (Jan 24, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> the thing is that you are doing so much cardio right now and not leaving yourself anywhere to go if you need to.  When you lower cals your body adjusts to a new energy intake.  When you do more cardio your body has to adapt to a new level of energy expenditure.  Do both to much or to soon and you run your metabolism in the ground, back your self in a corner and shoot yourself in the foot.  I would progress really slowly with cardio and use it only when it is neccessary.


This is just something from a nobody around here


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## SlimShady (Jan 24, 2005)

DeadBolt said:
			
		

> This is just something from a nobody around here


 Dude, you generally give good advice around here and I respect you. But in this instance you are advising an out of shape, middle aged man who wants to lose 4-5 inches off his waist AGAINST doing any cardio. You are dead wrong. Quote God himself if you want to.. I don't care. You will still be wrong. He doesn't need to worry about losing weight later. He needs to lose it NOW. There is no contest to prepare for in a year... the guy just wants to get in shape. Cardio will help him achieve his goals much as it did for me.

 Edited to add - [BTW - I found the thread you quoted P-Funk from. His response about cutting back on cardio was in a journal of a lifter who has been a member here since Dec 2003. The guy is in excellent shape and trying to get his 6-pack to pop. In that instance, yeah, the advice P-Funk gave makes a lot of sense. That guy can wait and then use cardio to put the final touches on his cut. Read my own words about my plan - I myself am cutting back on cardio - BUT only because I have used it to LOSE that dangerous fat around my mid section. You know, the kind of fat that makes guys my age keel over from heart attacks! ..... Different situations require different stategies Deadbolt.. ]

 Peace..


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## TheRoyalOne (Jan 24, 2005)

DeadBolt said:
			
		

> I never understand this when people say it....



You're taking the quote out of context....
4-5 inches off my stomach at the cost of 1-2 pounds of muscle...well worth the sacrifice. What good does it do to have 180 pounds of LBM if it's covered by 50 pounds of fat?



			
				SlimShady said:
			
		

> ....you are advising an out of shape, middle aged man....



 
I'm only 29


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## DeadBolt (Jan 24, 2005)

SlimShady said:
			
		

> Dude, you generally give good advice around here and I respect you. But in this instance you are advising an out of shape, middle aged man who wants to lose 4-5 inches off his waist AGAINST doing any cardio. You are dead wrong. Quote God himself if you want to.. I don't care. You will still be wrong. He doesn't need to worry about losing weight later. He needs to lose it NOW. There is no contest to prepare for in a year... the guy just wants to get in shape. Cardio will help him achieve his goals much as it did for me.
> 
> Edited to add - [BTW - I found the thread you quoted P-Funk from. His response about cutting back on cardio was in a journal of a lifter who has been a member here since Dec 2003. The guy is in excellent shape and trying to get his 6-pack to pop. In that instance, yeah, the advice P-Funk gave makes a lot of sense. That guy can wait and then use cardio to put the final touches on his cut. Read my own words about my plan - I myself am cutting back on cardio - BUT only because I have used it to LOSE that dangerous fat around my mid section. You know, the kind of fat that makes guys my age keel over from heart attacks! ..... Different situations require different stategies Deadbolt.. ]
> 
> Peace..


I never said don't do any cardio...I simply said use it as a tool and not over do it.  You miss-understood me and twisted it around.  I understand what your saying but I feel if he does to much cardio right now he may lose some weight but when it comes to the crucial time he wont have enough left to really go to the intensity that he will need.

This is why I say use it sparingly for now...start off slow and gradually increase it over time to keep gains constant...just don't throw it all in there every day.  He hasn't been l.ifting for a while so the fact that he is starting again is like a cardio all in of itself...if he keeps proper intensity.  So if he starts doing to much cardio right now his metabolism is really gonna get outta whack.  I don't know if I made that clearly or not...do you understand where I'm coming from?  

I'm not arguing or trying to correct you I'm simply giving you my perspective...everyone has their own style.  I feel if he does to much cardio he will lose to much LBM and ruin his metabolism to fast where as if he goes my route he may preserve much more LBM and maintain a proper metabolism even though it takes a few weeks longer.  In that gained time you saved by doing tons of cardio you will be making it up 2 fold trying to gain the LBM back.


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## SlimShady (Jan 24, 2005)

TheRoyalOne said:
			
		

> You're taking the quote out of context....
> 4-5 inches off my stomach at the cost of 1-2 pounds of muscle...well worth the sacrifice. What good does it do to have 180 pounds of LBM if it's covered by 50 pounds of fat?
> 
> 
> ...


 Ouch! .. Sorry man, I thought you'd said you were my age. My apologies. I still think cardio is a good idea for you. Once you get rid of the gut, you can always cut back.


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## SlimShady (Jan 24, 2005)

DeadBolt said:
			
		

> I'm not arguing or trying to correct you I'm simply giving you my perspective...everyone has their own style. I feel if he does to much cardio he will lose to much LBM and ruin his metabolism to fast where as if he goes my route he may preserve much more LBM and maintain a proper metabolism even though it takes a few weeks longer. In that gained time you saved by doing tons of cardio you will be making it up 2 fold trying to gain the LBM back.


 I don't think 20 minutes of HIT cardio per day will cost him any LBM. Not if he keeps his lifting intensity high and his diet clean. All I can relate to is my own experience... I lost weight, lost fat and gained LBM. And I did 20-25 minutes of HIT cardio everyday.  I still do it 3 times per week. I now have a 2-pack and quickly heading for a 4-pack. And I've gained LBM. 

 In the end, he'll have to decide for himself. He can make adjustments as he progresses... we all do, because we are all different.


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## TheRoyalOne (Jan 24, 2005)

DeadBolt said:
			
		

> .....This is why I say use it sparingly for now...start off slow and gradually increase it over time to keep gains constant...just don't throw it all in there every day.....




I started light with 20min/day 5days/week on the bike. In the past 3 weeks I've moved up to 60 minutes on the eliptical. The bike just wasn't cutting it any more.


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## Cyber_Pinky (Jan 24, 2005)

Royalone... you might want to change what you're doing for Cardio.  

Stepmill (basically real steps you have to go up)
Incline walking (10-15 grade)
Running

With Bikes/Elipticals/ski machines you aren't working against your body.  So it's a much easier form of exercise and you waste too much time.  20 min on the stepmill feels like 45 on an eliptical.  + with these your legs, core get a better workout themselves so you'll notice more muscular development in them.

Give them a try... you're shirt will wish you didnt.


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## TheRoyalOne (Jan 24, 2005)

Cyber_Pinky said:
			
		

> Royalone... you might want to change what you're doing for Cardio.
> 
> Stepmill (basically real steps you have to go up)
> Incline walking (10-15 grade)
> ...




I'll do that tonight. The stepmills are usually pretty empty after 8PM. I've never been a fan of running, but of course I've never been in this good of cardiovascular shape.


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## Sissy (Jan 24, 2005)

Hey guys (& gals.) My name is Sissy, I'm new. Yes, new at working out too.  I find this "how much Cardio" stuff to be interesting, so plugged in here. Let me tell you all a little about myself, if I may? I'm late 30's. I use to have a tight bod. (by just staying active.) But some idiot hit me head on and broke 5 of my bones. (ouch!) This was 3 yrs. ago. I am just now serious about getting myself back into shape.

I am trying to lose 25lbs (first) and then tighten up. (yes, the ab area needs to lose about 5") This is my 10th day in a row of working out. (I am trying a low weight and Cardio mix.) I "dancercise" for 20 minutes but read (somewhere?) where 20 minutes was only enough to kick it in gear and get the system started?  ....so he recommended 1 hour? I see from reading here there are a few different view points?

 I can see the point where "it could be too much too soon" for the system? I was going to go full force into my Cardio "dancercise" for 1 hour straight, but after reading I think maybe I'll back off and take it slow and stick to my "20 minute" dancercise? I think the system is in enough shock? 

I'm doing 20 minutes of stretches/20 min. light weights/ & 20 min. Cardio.  (Do you all recommend 3 healthy meals a day or 5 small meals to keep that Metabolism pumping?) Any advice is always appreciated.  Thanks guys for sharing your workout knowledge. 

_____________________________
I'll be back 4 more.... 
Late30Sissy


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## TheRoyalOne (Jan 25, 2005)

Sissy said:
			
		

> (Do you all recommend 3 healthy meals a day or 5 small meals to keep that Metabolism pumping?) Any advice is always appreciated.  Thanks guys for sharing your workout knowledge.
> 
> _____________________________
> I'll be back 4 more....
> Late30Sissy



You definately want to go for 5-6 small meals a day. You should stop by the Diet and Nutrition forum, there are some pretty good articles there you should take a look at. This board is FULL of information.


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## TheRoyalOne (Jan 25, 2005)

Cyber_Pinky said:
			
		

> Royalone... you might want to change what you're doing for Cardio.
> 
> Stepmill (basically real steps you have to go up)
> Incline walking (10-15 grade)
> ...




20 Minutes on the Stepmill last night kicked my @$$.   I worked harder for those 20 minutes than I did for an hour on the eliptical. I think I'll be doing Max OT -Cardio on the Stepmill for the next few weeks.


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## Sissy (Jan 25, 2005)

TheRoyalOne said:
			
		

> You definately want to go for 5-6 small meals a day. You should stop by the Diet and Nutrition forum, there are some pretty good articles there you should take a look at. This board is FULL of information.


thanks. I'll give the 5 small meals a shot and check out the Nutrition forum too.  I've noticed on here the words "Max OT"? I'm in Cardio 101 (lol.) could someone please fill me in on the Advanced cardio terminology? thanks.

P.S. Try Groovin' to some Hip Hop! The New Usher CD is a GREAT way to "Bust a Move" and break a sweat! :bounce: How about some Cardio with some Fun!! ...and then go climb some steps or trees will work!


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## Cyber_Pinky (Jan 25, 2005)

TheRoyalOne said:
			
		

> 20 Minutes on the Stepmill last night kicked my @$$.  I worked harder for those 20 minutes than I did for an hour on the eliptical. I think I'll be doing Max OT -Cardio on the Stepmill for the next few weeks.


Hehe.. ya no doubt that machine makes you burn!

If you want to keep going and that movement is too tiring... go on the treadmill at the biggest incline and walk at 4mph... good way to keep it going and last a bit longer.


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## j rizz (Jan 25, 2005)

im trying to bulk up without gettin a gut... how does 20 minutes of HITT two days a week sound??
6'0
165-170
18 years old
32-34 inch waist
diet strict


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## SlimShady (Jan 25, 2005)

j rizz said:
			
		

> im trying to bulk up without gettin a gut... how does 20 minutes of HITT two days a week sound??
> 6'0
> 165-170
> 18 years old
> ...


  Sounds good, just watch yourself and adjust your sched/diet if you start packing on too many lbs.


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## DeadBolt (Jan 25, 2005)

Wow has this thread ever been jacked or what!



			
				Sissy said:
			
		

> Hey guys (& gals.) My name is Sissy, I'm new. Yes, new at working out too.  I find this "how much Cardio" stuff to be interesting, so plugged in here. Let me tell you all a little about myself, if I may? I'm late 30's. I use to have a tight bod. (by just staying active.) But some idiot hit me head on and broke 5 of my bones. (ouch!) This was 3 yrs. ago. I am just now serious about getting myself back into shape.
> 
> I am trying to lose 25lbs (first) and then tighten up. (yes, the ab area needs to lose about 5") This is my 10th day in a row of working out. (I am trying a low weight and Cardio mix.) I "dancercise" for 20 minutes but read (somewhere?) where 20 minutes was only enough to kick it in gear and get the system started?  ....so he recommended 1 hour? I see from reading here there are a few different view points?
> 
> ...



Don't go balls to the wall just yet...ease into it and gradually increase everything or you wont ever want to come back. 

There are 3 forms of cardio...high intensity ussually with intervals10-20 minutes...moderate rate at 30-40 minutes..then low intensity for an extended period of time-45-60 minutes.  One isn't better then the other...I feel you should mix them up.  Different ones for different goals I guess as well.

What kind of intensity is your dance routine?  Are you going all out or is it moderate...depending on the intensity depends on the length of time you should be doing it.

Def stick to 5-6 meals a day...much better for you.  Go over the the diet and nutrition forum and soak up some info there...tons of sources for you to educate yourself in there.



			
				j rizz said:
			
		

> im trying to bulk up without gettin a gut... how does 20 minutes of HITT two days a week sound??
> 6'0
> 165-170
> 18 years old
> ...


What someotype are you?  Ecto I wouldn't bother with cardio...endo/meso you may want to throw a day or two of hiit in there its up to you.  Don't over do the cardio though or you wont get anywhere.


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## Sissy (Jan 26, 2005)

j rizz said:
			
		

> im trying to bulk up without gettin a gut... how does 20 minutes of HITT two days a week sound??


If I knew what HITT was I'd answer you?  Better leave this one to the the BIG guys.


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## CowPimp (Jan 26, 2005)

I don't think there's anything wrong with doing cardio daily, but don't do it just because.  If you enjoy it, then go right ahead.  If you have to force yourself to do the cardio, then anywhere from 3-5 days would be a more reasonable goal to shoot for.  I usually do cardio 1-3 days per week just to maintain some level of conditioning, but I hate cardio.


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## Sissy (Jan 27, 2005)

Sissy said:
			
		

> I've noticed on here the words "Max OT"? I'm in Cardio 101 (lol.) could someone please fill me in on the Advanced cardio terminology? thanks.


 A thread has been started in the beginner's section titled Work-out Terminology 101 and asked about some specifics there?


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## Sissy (Jan 27, 2005)

j rizz said:
			
		

> im trying to bulk up without gettin a gut... how does 20 minutes of HITT two days a week sound??


I hear the words "No gut"...and working on the Abs comes to mind? I have an "Ab Pilates" tape on order and am very much determined to aim for the almighty 6 pack!  Best of Luck to ya!!


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## camarosuper6 (Jan 27, 2005)

Aerobics (commonly known as cardio) are wonderful for shedding fat and cardiovascular health.  If your goal is to add as much muscle as possible, then aerobics need to be kept to a minimum... however, if this guy's main goal is to shed pounds, then aerobics should definitely be included.

I would recommend the MAX-OT style cardio, or HIIT, 3 times a week, seperated by at least 8 hours from your weight training.  Keep weight training to add muscle, gain strength and improve your metabolic rate as well.

IMO a good schedule would be.

Mon: Chest/Back
Tue: Max-OT or HIIT 20 min
Wed: Shoulders/Arms
Thur: Max-OT or HIIT 20 min
Fri: Off (enjoy yourself)
Sat: Legs
Sun: Max-OT HIIT 20 min
Mon: Off

Repeat.


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## DeadBolt (Jan 27, 2005)

Sissy said:
			
		

> I hear the words "No gut"...and working on the Abs comes to mind? I have an "Ab Pilates" tape on order and am very much determined to aim for the almighty 6 pack!  Best of Luck to ya!!


Abs are made in the kitchen...


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## KarlW (Jan 28, 2005)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> I usually do cardio 1-3 days per week just to maintain some level of conditioning, but I hate cardio.


 same here


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## Sissy (Jan 28, 2005)

j rizz said:
			
		

> im trying to bulk up without gettin a gut... how does 20 minutes of HITT two days a week sound??


 Hey rizz, I'm no professional at "Bulking" but if you want a cut gut...how about workin' the Abs? They have many Ab videos to choose from on E-bay!!!


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## DeadBolt (Jan 28, 2005)

Sissy said:
			
		

> Hey rizz, I'm no professional at "Bulking" but if you want a cut gut...how about workin' the Abs? They have many Ab videos to choose from on E-bay!!!





			
				DeadBolt said:
			
		

> Abs are made in the kitchen...





............


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## Sissy (Jan 28, 2005)

Sorry, don't mind the double post on the Abs.   It's a long story.   speaking of....what am I missing about the "Abs made in the kitchen"?  The only thing I work in the kitchen are my arms!  ...moving like an Octopus in fast gear!!!  (doing dishes, cutting vegetables and sweeping floors!!)


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## Vieope (Jan 28, 2005)

_A good weight lifting workout is a form of cardio. _


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## Sissy (Jan 28, 2005)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _A good weight lifting workout is a form of cardio. _


Thanks for clearing that up. I am in Cardio (High Metabolism mode) right now...gotta lose oh-hhh......ok, 23lbs  I confess. (But I have a good excuse for gaining the weight!!  ) Now that I mean business, I have included a "Weight lifting" work-out of light weights (high reps) to give it more of a "Cardio" at this point. I only do 20 minutes and now do every other day, (after hearing from U all the importance of resting those muscles!) then I go do something else after my weight workout...
Sounds like I'm right on target for the Cardio thing with the weights.


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## Vieope (Jan 28, 2005)

_I was not referring to you Sissy it was for another post but I forgot to quote. 

Hey, doesn´t sissy mean gay? _


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## Sissy (Jan 28, 2005)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _I was not referring to you Sissy it was for another post but I forgot to quote. _
> 
> _Hey, doesn´t sissy mean gay? _


 That's funny...I never even thought of that?  (silly me!) I do like men (!!!) but _can assure you I am female._  Keep in mind, however, I am happily not single.  LOL.


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## Vieope (Jan 28, 2005)

Sissy said:
			
		

> That's funny...I never even thought of that?  (silly me!) I do like men (!!!) but _can assure you I am female._  Keep in mind, however, I am happily not single.  LOL.


_How are you doin?  _


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## DeadBolt (Jan 29, 2005)

Sissy said:
			
		

> .what am I missing about the "Abs made in the kitchen"?


You need to lower your bodyfat in order to see the abs...training thema nd making them larger helps in making them visible sooner I guess but you really need to focuse on your diet to drop your bodyfat and see your abs.


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## Sissy (Jan 29, 2005)

Yes, U R saying a well balanced Diet (2 trim) AND Ab work (2 shape)?   The 2 work together. Eating the Goodies all day and then situps to shape just won't work.  
It begins with Hard work that begins in the kitchen!  Gotcha!!


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## MTN WARRIOR (Jan 29, 2005)

DeadBolt said:
			
		

> DIET..is key not cardio to lose weight.




Both are required to do it properly.  You need to create a caloric deficit while maintaining proper types of nutrients.  Cardio increases your metabolism during the exercise and most importantly for upt to 72 hours after the exercise.  It burns more fat effectively than you can safely "not put in".



> Cardio should be a tweak towards the end of a cut when progress comes to a hault.  If you do to mucbh cardio now your body will adapt...thats its nature...and you will be up shits creek come times where progrees stops..




I have never heard a stupider statement except maybe from JOHNNNNY.  OF course your body adapts, that is why we do different muscular exercises in varying amounts of reps and sets and angles and rest periods.  But you are never "up shit creek" unless you stay narrow minded and only do the same thing over and over again. The same goes for cardio and your metabolism.  You must consistently change it up via different levels of instensity, different types of cardio (ie running, walking fast, stairclimber, bike etc).  IF you followed that line of thinking you would never lift anywhere near your max lift because you "dont want to plateau and be up shit creek".



> But again DIET should be your main focus right now not so much cardio.



BOTH, along with a well planned strength routine of lifting weights to increase the metabolism more and to increase naturally occuring GH and test in the body.

Come on man, I usually here decent things from you.  You are one of the smarter guys on here.  I hope you just misstated yourself and didnt articulate what you wanted to say well enough. ITs all good though.


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## Sissy (Jan 29, 2005)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _How are you doin?  _


I thank you for asking. I am doing much better than expected. Most of you have read that I started with a goal of losing 25 pounds first (Ouch!) before I start to build. R U ready for this? I have lost 4 whole pounds just starting the 3rd week!!  

I am cruzin' in high gear! :bounce: (LOL!)

My routine
--Eat & drink right.
--20 minutes light weights /high reps & 50 squats with no weights (every other day)
--20 minutes DAILY Cardio (Dancercize - Intermediate/break a sweat) 
--50 situps DAILY (new Ab Pilates video on order!)
--20 minutes Yoga (stretches) DAILY

Total Workout time -- 1 hour & 10 minutes. 

It seems to be working and am very excited about it!  The high gear mode has been set with plans to be Yoga Certified by May 1, so I have to Move it along...if you know what I mean?


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## DeadBolt (Jan 29, 2005)

MTN WARRIOR said:
			
		

> Both are required to do it properly.  You need to create a caloric deficit while maintaining proper types of nutrients.  Cardio increases your metabolism during the exercise and most importantly for upt to 72 hours after the exercise.  It burns more fat effectively than you can safely "not put in".
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No I'm sitcking to what I said...whether you think its stupid or not.  You start out 30lbs over weight and start doing mass amount of cardio.  You may lose 20lbs or so hypatheticly but come those last 10lbs you are going to have to be doing so much cardio its insane.  If you keep a strict diet...strict and I mean strict...with an intense weight training routine you should have no problem sheding lbs and cardio should only really be used once you get to low teens or single digit bodyfat.  

I have a method of thinking which has been learned through many here...many of those in which most highly respect and this is what I was taught and believe in.  I will continue to follow my own method of thinking and maintain as much LBM rather then shedding numbers but looking like shit.  Its all about the muscle here not the numbers.


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## j rizz (Jan 29, 2005)

hey.. sorry im postin so late to this, ive been really busy.
but as for the question of my genetic body type. i am a meso/endo.
ya i think im gonna start throwing them good ole ab workouts in my routine, i take it i should just do regular abs workouts instead of weighted ones i.e. weighted incline sit-ups?


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## MTN WARRIOR (Jan 29, 2005)

DeadBolt said:
			
		

> No I'm sitcking to what I said...whether you think its stupid or not.  You start out 30lbs over weight and start doing mass amount of cardio.  You may lose 20lbs or so hypatheticly but come those last 10lbs you are going to have to be doing so much cardio its insane. .



 

Again, Bullshit, its all about maintaining a caloric deficit, period.  You can "think differently" all you want, or you can believe in fact.  More calories out + less calories in = loss of LBM when done correctly, generally speaking.  IF what you said was true, then all you would have to do is stop eating totally for 1 week and you would lose 10 lbs.  You must put in the proper amount of macros and burn fat (as well as excess macros) through exercise.  Cardio is the best form of exercise to burn fat, proven, and to help maintain LBM.  By reducing caloric intake to the point where you start losing your weight, again, your thryoid adjusts your metabolism to burn fewer calories in a "sparring action".  Hence you will no longer lose weight.





			
				DeadBolt said:
			
		

> If you keep a strict diet...strict and I mean strict...with an intense weight training routine you should have no problem sheding lbs and cardio should only really be used once you get to low teens or single digit bodyfat.  .



 
So I guess then the cardio machines at the gym should only be used by the fit people.


I have a method of thinking which has been learned through many here...many of those in which most highly respect and this is what I was taught and believe in.  I will continue to follow my own method of thinking and maintain as much LBM rather then shedding numbers but looking like shit.  Its all about the muscle here not the numbers.[/QUOTE]

 

For you its all about muscle, for some, they must get rid of fat as well.  That, by every written and spoken standard requires burning off more than you put in.  Maybe you were taught by JOHNNNY.  If you maintain large amounts of LBM covered in fat, you look like shit, hence cardio.


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## P-funk (Jan 29, 2005)

> calories out + less calories in = loss of LBM



you hope it equates to a loss of LBM

In most cases all this means is:

calories out + less cals in= loss of WEIGHT




> Cardio is the best form of exercise to burn fat, proven, and to help maintain LBM



Depends on the type of cardio and how it is implemented with your resitance program and diet really.


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## Duncans Donuts (Jan 29, 2005)

> Both are required to do it properly.



What is your definition of properly?  I lost about 12 pounds of fat while maintaining the muscle I had in seven weeks, imo, because I did almost *no* so called "cardio" ... precisely because low intense aerobic exercise can and will be detrimental to your muscle if done in the wrong way (ESPECIALLY on a diet).


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## P-funk (Jan 29, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> What is your definition of properly?  I lost about 12 pounds of fat while maintaining the muscle I had in seven weeks, imo, because I did almost *no* so called "cardio" ... precisely because low intense aerobic exercise can and will be detrimental to your muscle if done in the wrong way (ESPECIALLY on a diet).




I agree, I do almost no cardio until i absolutly have to when dieting.


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## MTN WARRIOR (Jan 29, 2005)

More calories out + less calories in = loss of LBM when done correctly, generally speaking.

That was my quote.  When cardio is done correctly and nutrition is done correctly which is much to much for this forum.  You are also talking about two different scenarios.  This person is fat and wants to lose weight, not prep for a cutting phase just prior to a comp.  Different concepts totally.  And how does low intensity cardio, on a diet, burn muscle, WHEN DONE PROPERLY.  And again, we are talking about a person who wants to lose 25 lbs, not cut for a show and maintain all the muscle they have worked for years to get.  I am sure she would even sacrifice 2-3 lbs of muscle for 25 lbs of fat.  I know I would.  You guys know a tremendous amount, I will certainly not dispute that, but it has to be applied appropriately for each person.  Not all BBing techniques are appropriate for every person, every situation.  Most of the things that were stated were correct, just inappropriately applied in THIS situation.


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## P-funk (Jan 29, 2005)

MTN WARRIOR said:
			
		

> More calories out + less calories in = loss of LBM when done correctly, generally speaking.
> 
> That was my quote.  When cardio is done correctly and nutrition is done correctly which is much to much for this forum.  You are also talking about two different scenarios.  This person is fat and wants to lose weight, not prep for a cutting phase just prior to a comp.  Different concepts totally.  And how does low intensity cardio, on a diet, burn muscle, WHEN DONE PROPERLY.  And again, we are talking about a person who wants to lose 25 lbs, not cut for a show and maintain all the muscle they have worked for years to get.  I am sure she would even sacrifice 2-3 lbs of muscle for 25 lbs of fat.  I know I would.  You guys know a tremendous amount, I will certainly not dispute that, but it has to be applied appropriately for each person.  Not all BBing techniques are appropriate for every person, every situation.  Most of the things that were stated were correct, just inappropriately applied in THIS situation.




Actually, I didn't even read the original post I was just commenting on what was said from the last few posts.  I agree that someone who is severly out f shape needs to do cardio to improve their overal conditioning, increase their endurance and yes, loose weight.


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## MTN WARRIOR (Jan 29, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> Actually, I didn't even read the original post I was just commenting on what was said from the last few posts.  I agree that someone who is severly out f shape needs to do cardio to improve their overal conditioning, increase their endurance and yes, loose weight.



'Sal Good.


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## Sissy (Jan 29, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> I agree that someone who is severly out f shape needs to do cardio to improve their overal conditioning, increase their endurance and yes, loose weight.


Hey guys, enjoyed all the hype (and understand, different strokes for different folks) but just for the record, I'm not really "That" out of f shape?  LOL!! What was 25lbs over (not good. ) is now at 21lbs to go!!! 

*No Time to Lose!!! ....No PUN intended!*


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## DeadBolt (Jan 29, 2005)

MTN WARRIOR said:
			
		

> Again, Bullshit, its all about maintaining a caloric deficit, period.  You can "think differently" all you want, or you can believe in fact.  More calories out + less calories in = loss of LBM when done correctly, generally speaking.  IF what you said was true, then all you would have to do is stop eating totally for 1 week and you would lose 10 lbs.  You must put in the proper amount of macros and burn fat (as well as excess macros) through exercise.  Cardio is the best form of exercise to burn fat, proven, and to help maintain LBM.  By reducing caloric intake to the point where you start losing your weight, again, your thryoid adjusts your metabolism to burn fewer calories in a "sparring action".  Hence you will no longer lose weight.
> 
> *No shit you need to eat the proper macros...Cardio is not the best for of exercise to burn fat though and you only hope the weight you are losing is fat and not LBM.  If you stoped eating for a week you would do nothing buit screw your whole body up...that makes no sense...you would kill your metabolism and go into a catabolic state.*
> 
> ...



Also...my whole argument was towards royal doing an hour of high intensity cardio 5 days a week as well as lifting weight 3 days a week.  To start out like that would not produce the best results and I have stated why in my earlier posts.  If he were to gradually work into it and use cardio later on I feel he would have much better results in the end.  No offense to sissy but I never even thought of her, I gave her sound advice and I adised here in no way to not do cardio so where your getting that shit is beyond me.


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## SlimShady (Jan 29, 2005)

DeadBolt said:
			
		

> Also...my whole argument was towards royal doing an hour of high intensity cardio 5 days a week as well as lifting weight 3 days a week. To start out like that would not produce the best results and I have stated why in my earlier posts. If he were to gradually work into it and use cardio later on I feel he would have much better results in the end. No offense to sissy but I never even thought of her, I gave her sound advice and I adised here in no way to not do cardio so where your getting that shit is beyond me.


 Royal wanted to know about cardio because his goal was to rid himself of 21% BF and 4-5 inches off his waist. I recommended HIT cardio for 20 mins sessions and you came off with that "save the cardio for a final cut or you will be up shit creek" stuff... ... Anyone can go re-read it all... Royal is the perfect candidate for some cardio .


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## Sissy (Jan 29, 2005)

SlimShady said:
			
		

> Royal is the perfect candidate for some cardio .


  We all know anyone with excess % BF is a perfect candidate for cardio unless you have a doctors notice stating otherwise. 

It looks as tho a simple misunderstanding ​here may be the start and cause of a lighted spark?​ 
​


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## Sissy (Jan 29, 2005)

j rizz said:
			
		

> hey.. sorry im postin so late to this, ive been really busy.
> but as for the question of my genetic body type. i am a meso/endo.
> ya i think im gonna start throwing them good ole ab workouts in my routine, i take it i should just do regular abs workouts instead of weighted ones i.e. weighted incline sit-ups?


In 2 weeks time (with 2-3 inches to lose on the waist)  

at 50 Situps DAILY -- (front & side for Obliques)
at 3 reps of 20 Every Other day-- (only 6lb) Crunches on the machine. ...(I'm a light weight!  )

...and of course, at eating right, my honey hub says he can already see a smaller waist line and can actually see a cut line!  (No Joke!) and the Ab Pilates tape hasn't even arrived yet!! Best of Ab work to us ALL! 

*We must, We must, We must Cut the Gut!* ...just gettin' fired up!  (he, he.)


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## DeadBolt (Jan 30, 2005)

SlimShady said:
			
		

> Royal wanted to know about cardio because his goal was to rid himself of 21% BF and 4-5 inches off his waist. I recommended HIT cardio for 20 mins sessions and you came off with that "save the cardio for a final cut or you will be up shit creek" stuff... ... Anyone can go re-read it all... Royal is the perfect candidate for some cardio .


I was only saying that because he was doing so much cardio...I never once said  cardio was bad but simply it shouldn't be done to the excess that he was doing it.  Those type of measures should be saved for later on.  I think people are just hearing me all wrong here or I didn't word my thoughts properly...either way everyones mind is made up.


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## Sissy (Jan 30, 2005)

Ok fellas,  we can see that "How much Cardio" can be a heated up topic. What is the agreed upon solution here? Let's put the cards on the table.

My Street Wise opinion: "the higher % BF, the More Cardio." It could be just that simple? Anyone care to join me on this one? My Street wise Opinion only...I'm no doctor.  

For example:
--A well fit individual may only need 20 minutes every other day?
--A slightly (non-fit) individual could use 20 minutes Daily?
--An excessive overweight individual (Could Use?) anywhere from 1 hour or more Daily?

Anyone care to duke me out on this one?


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## Duncans Donuts (Jan 30, 2005)

> at 50 Situps DAILY -- (front & side for Obliques)



That is a bad idea.



> A well fit individual may only need 20 minutes every other day?



Depending on what you do?  20 minutes of low intense high impact force on your joints ever other day is a bad idea, too.



> --A slightly (non-fit) individual could use 20 minutes Daily?



So if you're slightly unfit, you up the doseage to every day?  As if the force on someone who's out of shape won't be heavier and harder to deal with on their joints?  Not to mention that so called low-intense high force cardiovascular exercise done in twenty minutes won't do shit for the metabolism compared to an anaerobic workout, and it will probably spike the appetite; and it will probably burn 100 calories (if someone is lucky) above their BMR.



> --An excessive overweight individual (Could Use?) anywhere from 1 hour or more Daily?



Take everything I just said, and triple it.  Bad idea.  I'm defitently a HIIT advocate; aerobic style exercise should be brief, relatively intense, and infrequent (not more than 3 days a week, imo).  Diet is the key to losing fat.


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## Sissy (Jan 30, 2005)

Just read Duncan Donuts lines, he quoted everything I said.  


_____________________

_I no nothing...A doctor I am not, _
_Sissygirl._


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## SlimShady (Jan 30, 2005)

Cardio doesn't necessarily have to be high-impact. I usually use an elliptical machine, or a rowing machine and neither is hard on the joints. I think 20 minutes of HIT cardio, 3-4 times per week, is fine for anyone, no matter what shape you are in.  It'll help fat people slim down and it'll help fit people stay healthy. It's good for your heart and that might be the most important muscle in your body.


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## Duncans Donuts (Jan 30, 2005)

> If you know what I mean? I go by the saying.."if it feels good, do it." I have yet to feel any discomfort of any kind.


This methodology to any training is ridiculous.  If it feels good, do it?  So drink because it feels good.  Eat skittles because it feels good.  Curl the bar because it feels good (it feels good, so do it a thousand times).  

The problem, of course, is lack of foresight.  Doing 50 situps a day will do nothing except make you feel good, and that is the problem.

Doing something intelligently, like weighted situps progressively, will achieve results.



> (and all quotes in your opinion)


My "opinions" are certainly no different than your "feel good, do it" opinion.  Actually, let me revise that: my opinions are built on substantive fact.



> P.S. Did you all happen to see "The Biggest Loser" on T.V.? They worked out those Overweight individuals "Hard" for 5 hours each & every day. True story. I do remember some of them complaining of hurt knees and ankles, and the Instructors shrugged it off...they continued to push them until the weight was off.


No, i didn't see that show, and I would pass it off as silly entertainment.  I also wouldn't trust any of the instructors on the show to speak to me on mechanical physics of muscle, exercise physilogy, or nutrition.  These people, from your description, sound like the typical gym fitness trainers: complete morons.



> Cardio doesn't necessarily have to be high-impact. I usually use an elliptical machine, or a rowing machine and neither is hard on the joints. I think 20 minutes of HIT cardio, 3-4 times per week, is fine for anyone, no matter what shape you are in.


  No, aerobics don't have to be high impact.  You're right, 20 minutes of HIT cardio several times a week (though 4 would be pushing it, in my estimation) is good.  However, low intense exercise does NOT discriminate between fat and muscle.  If you start doing too much, every day, you will lose difficult-to-synthesize muscle which is much harder to get back and will lower your BMR.


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## Sissy (Jan 30, 2005)

Sissy said:
			
		

> End Note: Any and all respectful Feedback is much appreciated.


Just read Duncans lines...he quoted everything I said. 

________________________

There may be too much Testotrone in here? 
I no nothing...a doctor I am not. 
sissygirl.


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## Sissy (Jan 30, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> *This methodology to any training is ridiculous. If it feels good, do it? ....
> 
> *The problem, of course, is lack of foresight. .....Doing something intelligently, like weighted situps progressively, will achieve results.
> 
> ...


Are these the remarks of an "On-line Bully" or what? It sure looks that way to me. i was not Motivated nor impressed in any way... shape... or form... by these rude remarks.  

____________________
_not very friendly was he? _
_sissygirl_


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## Sissy (Jan 30, 2005)

_ _

_  _

_________________________
_these smiley faces say it all._


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## Duncans Donuts (Jan 30, 2005)

If you're going to make ridiculous remarks, expect that they be pointed out so other people don't accept the ludicrous information as fact.  This is a forum; a place to have discussion.  No need to cry.



> And Please, try NOT to quote 2 different people in 1 Quote setting. It looks as tho the one person is saying it all? i thank you. How would you like me to quote U and then add in other peoples quotes along with it so it looks like U said it ALL? Exactly.



Exactly what?  That's a false assumption.  I could care less how you quote me and then quote others, it's all easily referenced.  It's not that the quotes are sparsed together out of context.

Also, I don't think I was rude (at all).  I called the "if it feels good do it" methodolgy ridiculous.  It is.  I could, for example, have been much colorful with my language and adjectives.

And finally, if you don't want your statements criticized, avoid online forums.  Exactly.


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## camarosuper6 (Jan 30, 2005)

Yea, dont be such a sissy


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## Sissy (Jan 30, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> And finally, if you don't want your statements criticized, avoid online forums. Exactly.


One fact is 100% certain. ........"You're a real piece of work." 

________________
_golly gee...not very friendly is he? _
_Sissygirl._


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## Sissy (Jan 30, 2005)

again, Duncan has quoted most everything I said. why read it twice?  

_____________________________
_100% Fact: Fitness should be a Motivating Positive experience._


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## camarosuper6 (Jan 30, 2005)

Sissy, a word of advice. Duncan knows his stuff.  You may disagree with him, but I believe on this occassion he is correct in his statements.  One thing abou this forum is you really cant afford to be sensitive to others critcism...


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## j rizz (Jan 30, 2005)

wow.. everyone to their corners!!! break it up!!
no need to fight (or argue if your gonna dispute that this is a fight). we can settle this with the usual " do whatever works best for you. everyones body is different so if you see results with what your doing then keep doing it" end of story. GOOD NIGHT!


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## Duncans Donuts (Jan 30, 2005)

> How would you like me to quote U and then add in other peoples quotes along with it so it looks like U said it ALL? Exactly.


The false assumption was when you asked me  "How would you" and then answered it.  You assumed my answer would be yes. "Exactly."


> FACT: when you quote 2 different people together it runs off as if 1 person was saying it. Sorry to dissappoint you but This is FACT.


I think you need to look up the word fact.  In any case, I would agree if they were quoted in the same bracket.  Otherwise, it isn't "fact", because the quotes themselves can be easily referenced on the same page.  Anyone keeping up with the conversation would be able to make this distinction.


> You...sorry to dissappoint YOU but it'a not always about ___! That's right. Maybe OTHERS see you as Rude?


I'm sorry, but this makes no sense.  What does ___! mean?  To be a productive member of a board, you need to speak clearly and make cogent arguments.  As for the rude comment, get over it.  What you said was utter nonsense, and I pointed that out so no other poor saps would take such nonsensical advice.  This is the nature of online discussion, at least when something paticularly ludicrious is said.


> Maybe OTHERS see you as Rude?


Maybe others see you as a dullard?  What's your point?


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## SlimShady (Jan 31, 2005)

Sissy said:
			
		

> There may be too much Testotrone in here?
> I no nothing...a doctor I am not.
> sissygirl.


 There just might be... Sissy, there are at least three different schools of thought.... There is body building, weight loss and general fitness. Each camp has different practices and ideas. What works for one probably won't work for another. Then you toss in the different body types and you really get differing advice and opinions. Each person who responds is only trying to help and to spread advice based on what works for them. People sometimes forget that what worked for them, might not be the best thing for some one else. Still, it is just people trying to help other people. 

 Example - take a BBing program that worked for a 21 yr old male in decent shape to start with - he works out 3 days a week, stops eating pizza, gains 20 lbs of lean muscle and loses 5 lbs of belly flab. Now he has washboard abs and swears cardio isn't necessary to get in shape. Compare it to the program required of a 50 yr old woman who is 5'2" and weighs 185. and wanted to lose 50lbs before she had a heart attack.... Or take a 35 yr old male mesomorph who has been lifting for 20 yrs and uses gear vs someone who is 35, ectomorph, never worked out, has 20% BF and wanted muscles...those are extreme examples, but you see the point? Each person will have different views and will swear by different ideas. None of them will be wrong. 

 This is a Body Building forum, so you really can't expect anything but Body Building answers. It's up to you to decide your own best course of action and wade through the comments. If you read this thread, you will see that Deadbolt and I disagreed. That doesn't mean I don't like him, I think he is a great guy and I enjoy his ideas and posts. It just means we disagree on this one topic and that's all. I expect if I had a prob in the future that Deadbolt would be posting his advice to try and help me, and I would help him. Duncan is a good guy with a lot of knowledge and you might need his knowledge in the future. So don't take any comments to heart.... 

    This is a pretty cool place... so stick around and just try to learn as much as you can.


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## Sissy (Jan 31, 2005)

SlimShady said:
			
		

> So don't take any comments to heart.... This is a pretty cool place... so stick around and just try to learn as much as you can.


Thank you SlimShady, your Post was a pleasure to read, and I appreciate your kind words.


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## Sissy (Jan 31, 2005)

Sissy said:
			
		

> Ok fellas,  we can see that "How much Cardio" can be a heated up topic. What is the agreed upon solution here? Let's put the cards on the table.
> 
> My Street Wise opinion: "the higher % BF, the More Cardio." It could be just that simple? Anyone care to join me on this one? My Street wise Opinion only...I'm no doctor.
> 
> ...


Now this is the post that started all the ruckus. But on one last note, from myself, notice the words I used here were (may need?) and (could use?) I was not talking as if (I knew my stuff.) I was talking as if (could I be correct?).  Notice all the question marks after each sentence?  ...and "I'm no Doctor" means...You guessed it...."I'm not certain." when asked "does anyone care to Duke me out on this?",  I said it in fun and did not mean for anyone to take it literally.   

Said my Peace. and as Rizz would say, "GOODNIGHT"! lol. 

__________________
_"Associate yourself with men of character, if you esteem your own reputation. For tis better to be alone, than in bad company." --George Washington_


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## Sissy (Feb 1, 2005)

Sissy said:
			
		

> _"Associate yourself with men of character, if you esteem your own reputation. For tis better to be alone, than in bad company." --George Washington_


The Truth shall be told.  

Edit Correction:
"Associate yourself with men of _good quality_ if you esteem your own reputation, For tis better to be alone, than in bad company." -- George Washington.

___________________
*Happy fitness to all.*


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## ponyboy (Feb 1, 2005)

A little self statistic - take this as you will but everyone is an individual.  

April 04:  

Weight 183 lbs.
Body fat Approx 18% (caliper measured)
Lean Body Mass 151 lbs.

This is when I started doing some serious triathlon and distance training.  Currently I do anywhere from 7-10 hours of cardio a week split between several disciplines.  I also do 1-2 full body weight sessions per week for about 45 mins each including stretching.  Therefore I'm doing about an hour of cardio a day or more on average.    

Currently:  

Weight 174 lbs.
Body fat Approx 13% (again, caliper measured)
Lean Body Mass 152 lbs.  

Now, I'm not aspiring to be a bodybuilder of course, but obviously 7-10 hours of cardio a week isn't taking away any of my lean mass.  All it's done is make my waist thinner and helped me get more cut.  I don't care how much I weigh so it's not like I'm trying to gain or lose weight - I just want to get faster.  However, what you have to make sure you do is keep your nutrition in line with what you want.  I eat five times a day for a total of 2200-2500 calories average, but my proportions are about 60% carbs, 20% protein and 20% fats - I need the extra carbs for energy.  

I think for beginners telling them to follow a bodybuilder diet and lifestyle if all they want to do is lose weight is silly.  It also overcomplicates things.  Cut some calories (but not too many), eat more often throughout the day, get your macronutrients into proper proportions, and do cardio as much as you want.  What you do outside of the gym is far more important than what you're doing inside of it.


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## j rizz (Feb 1, 2005)

why cant we all be friends???


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## Duncans Donuts (Feb 1, 2005)

> take this as you will but everyone is an individual.


Just because people are "individuals" does not mean they don't respond in basic, general biological ways to everything from stress to nutrition. While these responses vary, we all fall in a typical range (this is the nature of the "average"). To say that certain methodologies of training work for some and not for others (look at various 'for or against HIT' threads) borders on mysticism: the idea that reality is beyond intellectual comprehension (there is no science).

Granted, some people have the capacity to work out for 3 hours a day, 6 days a week and benefit; however, these people are either on steroids or atypical genetic phenomenon (one in ten million).

Depending on your goals, I would certainly look carefully on how to do exercise that is aerobic in nature. Doing up to 10 hours of this exercise would default it to being low-intense (given the inverse relationship between intensity and duration), and henceforth be enormously hard on your musculature. If you want to be in supreme endurance-style distance runner shape, this is defitently the way to go. If you want to add muscle, this is a terrible strategy. If you want to maintain muscle and get cut, this strategy would still be somewhat poor (imo).


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## TheRoyalOne (Feb 1, 2005)

Threads like this are the exact reason I like this board. Ask a question and you will definitely get an answer! I modified my cardio/weight routine  about a week ago. Since then I've picked up a few pounds but my waist size has gone down. I'm also a bit more toned. I'll take some measurements next week and post them here. At the same time I'll update you guys on what I'm doing different and how it's worked or not worked for me. Hell, I should just start a training log!Thanks for all of the info.


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## SlimShady (Feb 1, 2005)

From what I have read (and that's a disclaimer cause someone will surely disagree with me on this).... Doing cardio for extended periods of time will cause your slow twitch fibers to stop growing, even if you continue to lift heavy. The large, fast twitch fibers can continue to grow, so mass increases are technically possible.... but since the smaller slow twitch fibers make up 50% of the total, it becomes much more difficult to see gains in mass. The body uses the slow twitch fibers for endurance and since they consume energy, the body attempts to make them as efficient as possible.  I believe this is one reason why you never see marathon runners gain much mass, even though they exercise an incredible amount of time.


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## Duncans Donuts (Feb 1, 2005)

> Doing cardio for extended periods of time will cause your slow twitch fibers to stop growing, even if you continue to lift heavy.


That's defitently not true..



> The body uses the slow twitch fibers for endurance


The body uses muscle according to the size-recruitment principle (except in very rare cases, in which it has been suggested or speculated on that slow twitch fibers can be bypassed in explosive lifts).  When you bench press 300 pounds, you are using slow twitch fibers.


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## CowPimp (Feb 1, 2005)

SlimShady said:
			
		

> From what I have read (and that's a disclaimer cause someone will surely disagree with me on this)....



You are correct so far.




> Doing cardio for extended periods of time will cause your slow twitch fibers to stop growing, even if you continue to lift heavy.



Actually, your slow twitch fibers are what will hypertrophy if you do endurance exercises.  However, this will occur at the expense of faster twitch fibers, which are responsible for serious mass gains.




> The large, fast twitch fibers can continue to grow, so mass increases are technically possible.... but since the smaller slow twitch fibers make up 50% of the total, it becomes much more difficult to see gains in mass.



Think about it.  If slow twitch fibers make up about 50% of your total muscle fibers in the average person, then so do fast twitch fibers.  The difference?  Fast twitch fibers are capable of hypertrophying to a much greater degree than slow twitch fibers.  As well, slow twitch fibers do very little for strength.




> The body uses the slow twitch fibers for endurance and since they consume energy, the body attempts to make them as efficient as possible.  I believe this is one reason why you never see marathon runners gain much mass, even though they exercise an incredible amount of time.



The body cannot make fibers more efficient.  However, if myofibrilar hypertrophy occurs, then the fibers become larger and increase their force output potential.  

The body can, however, make neuromuscular coordination more efficient.


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## MTN WARRIOR (Feb 2, 2005)

And the reason that marathon runners dont ever put on any mass is not because of the fibers, it is because of the diet and exercise regimen that they follow.  They put in carbs for fuel and conduct hours of cardio each week which burns it off.  They do not want bulk because they would have to carry it around when running and that would slow them down.


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## SlimShady (Feb 2, 2005)

Ok, gotcha... I wasn't argueing a point or saying this was correct, just repeating something I recently read in a magazine..


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## Sissy (Feb 5, 2005)

SlimShady said:
			
		

>


Hey SlimShady, i happened 2 see eminem on Mtv the other day and gave ya a thought?  It sounds like this "how much Cardio" thing could have some different schools of thoughts on the different body types?

_________________________

i could B wrong..a doctor i am not.


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