# do I REALLY need protein powders, dextrose etc?



## fqqs (Aug 16, 2011)

I have a home fully equipped gym so I can eat solid meals any time I want.

so do I have to use protein powders, dextrose (sucrose) etc. , reagrding my pre and post workout nutrition)?

or simply eat 2 hours before workout a solid meal: lots of low gi carbs, lots of animal protein (turkey breast), a little fat

and directly after workout drink vitamin juice (100% fruits) ~30g carbs and take shower and after 15-20 minutes eat solid meal with solid amount of lean beef & basmati rice

is that ok?


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## the_warchief (Aug 16, 2011)

Fggs, Sounds like a great plan. I think protein powders and dextrose are useful. Most people like to use them more for their convience then their actual crediability over using solid foods/ Juices post workout. Just make sure your getting about 40 to 60 grams of protein post workout and also obtaining the right amount of simple sugars to encourage the anabolic process. Here is a good article to help you out and reassure!
Bodybuilding.com - The Importance Of Post Workout Nutrition!


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## MDR (Aug 16, 2011)

Short answer is no, you do not need supplements.  Do they make things easier?  I think they do.  I like to use protein powder and creatine daily, along with a multi-vitamin as a kind of insurance.  You probably don't need the vitamin if you eat a solid, well-rounded diet, but I like to take it just in case.  I'm sure you will get many other suggestions, but these three items are supplements I've taken for many years, and I think they work well and they are a staple for many lifters.


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## SFW (Aug 16, 2011)

The anabolic window is an industry scam. As are most supps. Even the ones sold here.  

Long story short...No, you do not need them. You can replace corn sugar dextrose with raisins or another fruit high in glucose. solid meals Do take longer to digest...Maybe eat before your shower if youre at all concerned with the "anabolic window."


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## Built (Aug 16, 2011)

fqqs said:


> I have a home fully equipped gym so I can eat solid meals any time I want.
> 
> so do I have to use protein powders, dextrose (sucrose) etc. , reagrding my pre and post workout nutrition)?


As others have mentioned, you don't need supps to reach your goals. 

Please don't confuse sucrose with dextrose, however. Sucrose is a fructose bound loosely to a glucose molecule. Dextrose is pure glucose (dextrorotatory glucose) and that's the stuff you want. 

For health, avoid fructose wherever possible. A few pieces of fresh fruit a day are good for you, but sucrose, dried fruit, fruit juice, honey, soda pop and other foods sweetened with sucrose and/or high fructose corn syrup, and especially agave nectar should be severely curtailed in your diet. 

If you want to add the right sugar for reglycogenation and/or carb-loading, buy dextrose. It's cheap, and it's the right sugar for this application. 


fqqs said:


> or simply eat 2 hours before workout a solid meal: lots of low gi carbs, lots of animal protein (turkey breast), a little fat
> 
> and directly after workout drink vitamin juice (100% fruits) ~30g carbs


Yeah, I'm really not a fan of fruit juice. White rice is an excellent post workout carb, though, as are white and sweet potatoes, noodles, or bread.



fqqs said:


> and take shower and after 15-20 minutes eat solid meal with solid amount of lean beef & basmati rice
> 
> is that ok?


Beef will do your body good. 



SFW said:


> The anabolic window is an industry scam. As are most supps. Even the ones sold here.
> 
> Long story short...No, you do not need them. You can replace corn sugar dextrose with raisins or another fruit high in glucose. solid meals Do take longer to digest...Maybe eat before your shower if youre at all concerned with the "anabolic window."


^This. You could do something as simple as having a post-workout glass of chocolate milk with your postworkout solid meal (no need to wait), or the somewhat better option of a postworkout protein shake (with or without dextrose - I skip the dex and just eat white rice with my meal) drunk with your solid meal (again, no need to wait).


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## fqqs (Aug 17, 2011)

thank you all for your responses, especially Built

i have almost totally no suppplement approach (except for some vitamins, zinc , magnesium)

so maybe 1 large banana immediately after workout, then quick shower and after 15 mins solid meal (rice, beef, some veggies). you know,  i dont like to eat when im sweaty and stinking 

and 2h is enough (regarding preworkout meal) ? as ive mentioned that meal consists of ~40g protein, 90g  low gi carbs, 15-20g fat


and I dont want to create another topic so i thought i will ask here. ma pre workout meal consisits of 150g turkey breats (30g protein), and one medium-sized avocado (10g carbs, 18g fats). it is okay to eat that ~2 hours before bed?

sorry maybe I am overthinking this all, but I will feel much better if sb more experienced tell me

soory for my english

and my meal timing looks like that:

8.30 a MEAL I
12.00 a MEAL II
3.30 p MEAL III (preworkout)
5.30p-6.30p workout
6.45p MEAL IV (postoworkout)
10p MEAL V (before bed)
~11.30-12p sleep


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## Built (Aug 17, 2011)

Your meal timing really doesn't matter as much as we've been lead to believe. 

What you're doing is just fine - and there's no need to eat as frequently as you are, unless you like to. I only eat three and at most four meals a day, and most of my food is eaten close to bedtime. 

Read Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health for more on this.


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## alan84 (Aug 17, 2011)

Question for Built, do you think it is good to consume a fruit such as a banana as a post workout carb( suger) or not? OP, sorry for hijacking your thread!!


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## squigader (Aug 17, 2011)

alan84 said:


> Question for Built, do you think it is good to consume a fruit such as a banana as a post workout carb( suger) or not? OP, sorry for hijacking your thread!!



Sounds ok to me as long as you follow it up with some protein. Banana in your protein shake has always been one of the classic whey protein recipes.


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## squigader (Aug 17, 2011)

fqqs said:


> I have a home fully equipped gym so I can eat solid meals any time I want.
> 
> so do I have to use protein powders, dextrose (sucrose) etc. , reagrding my pre and post workout nutrition)?
> 
> ...



You do not need the protein powder or dextrose, especially with a solid post workout food like lean beef and basmati rice.

In fact, the only supplements you really ever "need" would be creatine, a multivitamin, and fish oil pill (which you can omit if you have oily fish at least 2-3x a week)


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## alan84 (Aug 17, 2011)

squigader said:


> Sounds ok to me as long as you follow it up with some protein. Banana in your protein shake has always been one of the classic whey protein recipes.



Oh yeah, for the post workout  I take a shake that consist of protein, glutamine and creatine, then followed by a banana


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## Built (Aug 17, 2011)

As a source of post-workout carbohydrate, there are better choices than a banana. "Perfect" would be glucose (dextrose) or glucose polymers (starch, such as white rice). That being said, there are nutrients in the banana you may find helpful, and there isn't a whole lot of fructose in one banana. According to the USDA nutrient database, of the 27g of carbohydrate in a medium banana, about 14g come from sugars and roughly half that is fructose. Humans can probably handle about 15-20g fructose daily with impunity. 
Sugar: The Bitter Truth - YouTube

(see 0:22:00)


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## alan84 (Aug 18, 2011)

Built said:


> As a source of post-workout carbohydrate, there are better choices than a banana. "Perfect" would be glucose (dextrose) or glucose polymers (starch, such as white rice). That being said, there are nutrients in the banana you may find helpful, and there isn't a whole lot of fructose in one banana. According to the USDA nutrient database, of the 27g of carbohydrate in a medium banana, about 14g come from sugars and roughly half that is fructose. Humans can probably handle about 15-20g fructose daily with impunity.
> Sugar: The Bitter Truth - YouTube
> 
> (see 0:22:00)



Good to know Built. The only time I eat a banana or any fruit is after I workout because I'm cutting right now and trying to avoid suger as much as possible.


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## the_warchief (Aug 19, 2011)

You honestly dont have to avoid fruit when your cutting. Most of the Striations and good weight will be dropped when your Hittin the Cardio Hard as A Muther*ucker!!! I would do and occasional banana and occasional apple but throw in lots of berries. THis is all from personal Experience IMO!


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## fqqs (Aug 19, 2011)

sorry again but I have another question

is little fat (<10g) acceptable in postworkout meal 30 min after workout? along with large amount of animal protein and some starchy carbs like rice or sweet potato


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## the_warchief (Aug 19, 2011)

Yes... I would try to get the meal in asap though just to absorb nutrients and help reverse your catabolic state.


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## .V. (Aug 19, 2011)

OP, no you do not need protein shakes.  They can be a helpful supplement to your diet if they fit within your nutritional needs, but they are by no means mandatory.  Some damn fine bodies have been built over the years without them.  Think back to the old days of bodybuilding where guys got really big and strong on 3 squares per day.  Meat and potatoes kind of eating + gallons of whole milk.

There are two very good ways that I've used with my clients depending on their goals and their training methods and what their body could tolerate eating.

Method 1:
anabolic approach (I use an ancestral anabolic approach that means only eggs, meat, garden vegetables, nuts, seeds, safe starches like sweet potatoes and potatoes, and some fruit.

Simply find your daily caloric needs and divide by 5.  Have about the same amount of calories spread over 5 meals each day.

Keep carbs under 30g/day for 5 days straight then carb load with the starches and fruits for 24-36 hours.  Just like with DiPisquale's old anabolic diet.   Yes, it still works without binging on breads and pastas.  And the way he originally presented works pretty good too but as a fitness guy who promotes a more primal/paleo instead of neolithic way of life I don't generally suggest it for long term health... but if you don't have issues with grains... it's very effective.


Method 2:
Find your daily caloric needs and divide by 5.  Eat about every three hours for five meals each day.  Make your plate with:
1:  An animal protein (meat, eggs)
2:  A starchy vegetable (sweet potato, white potato, winter squash, etc...)
3:  A green vegetable (green beans, turnip greens, etc...)

1-3 should be about equally proportioned.
4:  A little bit of fruit should be added to a couple of your meals each day.

**Again, if you don't have issues with grains, legumes, or other neolithic foods... then by all means have them with your starches.  The body doesn't know the difference as far as muscle building or fat burning goes...although I believe it does when it comes to preventing diabetes, autoimmune diseases, heart disease, and other medical issues.


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## the_warchief (Aug 20, 2011)

.V. said:


> OP, no you do not need protein shakes. They can be a helpful supplement to your diet if they fit within your nutritional needs, but they are by no means mandatory. Some damn fine bodies have been built over the years without them. Think back to the old days of bodybuilding where guys got really big and strong on 3 squares per day. Meat and potatoes kind of eating + gallons of whole milk.
> 
> There are two very good ways that I've used with my clients depending on their goals and their training methods and what their body could tolerate eating.
> 
> ...


 
Great post! I really like your approach to this!


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## oden (Aug 20, 2011)

franco colombo said there is more power in one egg than a tub of whey protien! and that milk makes you soft and fat!!--carbs are poisen-raw eggs are the perfect food -the only supps that really work are test & createen protieen powders are expensive trash. read up on vince gronalda and the keto diet.


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## Built (Aug 20, 2011)

oden said:


> franco colombo said there is more power in one egg than a tub of whey protien! and that milk makes you soft and fat!!--carbs are poisen-raw eggs are the perfect food -the only supps that really work are test & createen protieen powders are expensive trash. read up on vince gronalda and the keto diet.



Milk might have made HIM soft and fat - it doesn't do this to everybody. More power in one egg than a tub of protein powder? Gotta love hyperbole.

Carbs are not poison (okay, maybe fructose but not starches). Protein powders are not expensive, nor are they trash. They're an inexpensive way to boost protein intake, and can be helpful when dieting to reduce hunger. 

And for the record, I'm a fan of keto dieting, so don't think I'm just trashing you for espousing low carb dieting because I'm not; I'm trashing you for posting poor information.


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## iron2 (Aug 20, 2011)

Built said:


> Milk might have made HIM soft and fat - it doesn't do this to everybody. More power in one egg than a tub of protein powder? Gotta love hyperbole.
> 
> Carbs are not poison (okay, maybe fructose but not starches). Protein powders are not expensive, nor are they trash. They're an inexpensive way to boost protein intake, and can be helpful when dieting to reduce hunger.
> 
> And for the record, I'm a fan of keto dieting, so don't think I'm just trashing you for espousing low carb dieting because I'm not; I'm trashing you for posting poor information.


 lisen to built bro...she knows her shit.......


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## fqqs (Aug 20, 2011)

i have a general inquiry: 

 my last meal is 2 hours before bed. it consists of 150g turkey breast + some veggies + hazelnuts 

 i wonder if i can eat 40g of hazelnuts (24g fat)? wouldnt it be too much before bed?

meal timing really doesnt matter? can i eat even 50g of pure fat even just before bed if it fits my calorie requirement?


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## Built (Aug 20, 2011)

Meal timing - if it matters - doesn't matter nearly as much as we've been led to believe. There are exceptions - for example, "peak week" or specific diets such as UD2.0, but for the most part, eat whatever you want, whenever you want, provided it fits your macros.  So yes, pure fat, no problem.


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## Merkaba (Aug 20, 2011)

Yes there is nothing like dex/glucose.  It's processed with preference by the liver and body and yes the GI shit is nothing to worry about. Meal timing is nothing to worry about and I too eat most of my meals after 6.


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## jimm (Aug 21, 2011)

Built said:


> Your meal timing really doesn't matter as much as we've been lead to believe.
> 
> What you're doing is just fine - *and there's no need to eat as frequently as you are*, unless you like to. I only eat three and at most four meals a day, and most of my food is eaten close to bedtime.
> 
> Read Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health for more on this.


 

Really? doesnt this depend on your goals in terms of cutting or bulking/maintaining ect...


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## fqqs (Aug 21, 2011)

thank you for your answers!! really helped a lot 

but another possibly stupid question. could 300g of leanest beef (boiled/baked) a day be harmful?


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## fqqs (Aug 21, 2011)

and my diet looks like that:

I
2 whole eggs 3 whites, 120g buckwheat, 15g butter, omega3, veggies

II
150g turkey breast, 100g parboiled rice, 15g olive oil, veggies

III
150g turkey breast, 100g basmati rice, 15g olive oil, veggies

workout

IV
2 medium bananas, large sweet potato with 8g butter, 150g lean beef, veggies

V
canned sardines/tuna , 40g hazlnuts, veggues


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## Built (Aug 21, 2011)

jimm, it really appears to be overblown. Read leangains; it's a great source of info. 

fggs, just eat the whole eggs. Why are you spreading your food across 5 meals - are you having a hard time eating this much and find it easier to stuff in the calories this way? If so, that's fine. If not, if you're cutting, you may find it more comfortable to eat only 3 or 4 somewhat larger meals, but what you're doing is also fine. 

Why would you think beef was harmful?


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