# France moves closer to banning women from wearing veils in public



## min0 lee (Jan 26, 2010)

A parliamentary panel that wants Muslim women to stop veiling their faces recommended Tuesday that France ban such garb in public facilities, including hospitals and mass transit, and a leading panel member said he foresees such an interdiction by the end of 2010.  The nearly 200-page report contains a panoply of measures intended to dissuade women from wearing all-enveloping veils in France. 
 It also recommends refusing residence cards and citizenship to anyone with visible signs of a "radical religious practice." However, there is no call to outlaw such garments - worn by a tiny minority of Muslims - in private areas and in the street. 
 A full ban was the major issue that divided the 32-member, multiparty panel which ultimately heeded warnings that a full ban risked being deemed unconstitutional and could even cause trouble in a country where Islam is the second-largest religion. 
 The report, which culminates six months of hearings, was formally presented to the president of the National Assembly, the lower house, Bernard Accoyer, and made public. Conservative lawmaker Eric Raoult, the panel's No. 2 member, said later that he foresaw a limited ban in the public sector "before the end of the year." 
 "We need maybe six months or a little more to explain what we want," he told The Associated Press, adding that "by the end of 2010" there could be such an interdiction. 
 Accoyer was more vague but told a news conference that "we can certainly find solutions in a brief time." 
 Universities, hospitals, public transport and post offices would be among areas included in a limited ban on the all-encompassing veil. 
 As envisaged by the panel, such a ban would require that people show their faces when entering the facility and "keep the face uncovered throughout their presence," the report says. 
 Failure to do so would result "in a refusal to deliver the service demanded." That means, for instance, that a woman seeking state funds commonly accorded to mothers would walk away empty-handed. 
 A parliamentary resolution condemning such garb, with no legal weight and the easiest measure to pass, would be likely to precede concrete initiatives. 
 The veil is widely viewed in France as a gateway to extremism, an insult to gender equality and an offense to France's secular foundation. 
 A 2004 French law bans Muslim headscarves from primary and secondary school classrooms. 
 The language in the report was carefully chosen in an effort to avoid offending France's estimated 5 million Muslims - the largest such population in western Europe - and accusations of discrimination. 
 Muslim leaders have already complained that the debate over the full veil coupled with an ongoing debate on French national identity has left some Muslims feeling their religion is becoming a government target. 
 The panel went to work, taking testimony from more than 200 experts and others, after President Nicolas Sarkozy said in June that veils that hide the face are "not welcome" on French territory. 
 Such veils are thought to be worn by only several thousand Muslim women who, most often, pin a "niqab" across their faces, hiding all but the eyes. 
 Worn with a long, dark robe, such clothing is customarily associated with Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states. 
 The report puts an emphasis on educating women who wear the robes in France about the rules of the Republic. Any action on the report would not come before March regional elections. 

Read more: France moves closer to banning women from wearing veils in public
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## maniclion (Jan 26, 2010)

I think there are some women that it should be illegal to go out in public without a veil let alone a full burka.....


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## Dark Geared God (Jan 26, 2010)

i think some sould wear one too damn ugly. also spandex is not a right..if you fat don't wear it..


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 26, 2010)

The Situation said:


> i think some sould wear one too damn ugly. also spandex is not a right..if you fat don't wear it..



werd.


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 26, 2010)

See, I don't get this.  Obviously you shouldn't be handing out checks or ID without seeing who the person is, but isn't that just common sense?  If the chick wants to wear that shit because she is going to die and get 40 dildos if she does why stop her, she can believe whatever she wants.  This is in the same vein as people being upset Tebow is doing a pro-life commercial during the super bowl, if it upsets you just don't watch it, don't let it fuck up your day.


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## Hoglander (Jan 26, 2010)

The French are particularly interested in automatic facial recognition systems, tracking video systems that analyze behavior and intelligent cameras.

Source:  http://www.buyusa.gov/france/en/188.html


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## DOMS (Jan 26, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> If the chick wants to wear that shit because she is going to die and get 40 dildos if she does why stop her, she can believe whatever she wants.



Except that burkas perpetuate women as a second class and nothing more than property.

Even those women that claim to accept it are quite likely to so for the same reason that women stay in abusive relationships: conditioning.

Women that don't wear burkas in Arab cultures are ostracised and physically abused.  If the options are to wear a clothing head to foot or being abused, which would you "choose"?

Another thing, why don't Arab _men_ wear some sort of a burka?  Because it's stifling and robs you of personal expression/freedom.


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## Dark Geared God (Jan 26, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> See, I don't get this. Obviously you shouldn't be handing out checks or ID without seeing who the person is, but isn't that just common sense? If the chick wants to wear that shit because she is going to die and get 40 dildos if she does why stop her, she can believe whatever she wants. This is in the same vein as people being upset Tebow is doing a pro-life commercial during the super bowl, if it upsets you just don't watch it, don't let it fuck up your day.


 

that prolife comm they shelled out 5 million for that lol...

if they think france is bas they should try the UAE, Iraq that place is a trip i saw a woman fall in the street and i gut i knew from the base when to help her up i stopped him, big no no her husband walk up to her and said get up your blocking traffic. she walk or limp the manitory 3 ft behind him as they walk. gets some getting used to but the guys rule that place..


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## Dark Geared God (Jan 26, 2010)

Hoglander said:


> The French are particularly interested in automatic facial recognition systems, tracking video systems that analyze behavior and intelligent cameras.
> 
> Source: Security & Safety Equipment -- U.S. Commercial Service France


 
i saw one of those out side of a pizza joint..i guess bad people like pizza.no shit for real..


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## doctormomen (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi every one,im a Muslim Guy from Egypt,so
thnx for revealing such topic.maybe it's the time also to reveal some truth about that veil " Hijab",women abusing and alot of women rights in islam.
i would recommend to give a click for this site
Islams Women - Muslim Woman Status, Rights, Hijab, Marriage, and More..
 just make the try and see how these dudes think


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## Hoglander (Jan 26, 2010)

The Situation said:


> i saw one of those out side of a pizza joint..i guess bad people like pizza.no shit for real..



There is software(even freeware) you can use to unlock your computer using web cams. You could also make your front door unlock by putting your face in front of your security camera. You could even lock a door if someone with a  No Trespass Order showed up at your business.


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## Burner02 (Jan 27, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Except that burkas perpetuate women as a second class and nothing more than property.
> 
> Even those women that claim to accept it are quite likely to so for the same reason that women stay in abusive relationships: conditioning.
> 
> ...


I was just in Dubai a couple weeks ago...was walking thru the Dubai Mall. (friggin' cool...BTW)
I saw both, 'progressive' arab females as well as traditional, full ninja garb.
Now, you're not to look at arab women, so only got a few glances, but a few in the ninja suits...their eyes.....dam....way hot...wished I could have seen the rest of the face, but kept moving.


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## GearsMcGilf (Jan 27, 2010)

It's hard to blame the French when >10% of their population is now muslim.  They're up to their necks in Islamic cess.  Most arab women are fugly and smell like shit, so it's probably just as well.


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## DOMS (Jan 27, 2010)

Burner02 said:


> I was just in Dubai a couple weeks ago...was walking thru the Dubai Mall. (friggin' cool...BTW)
> I saw both, 'progressive' arab females as well as traditional, full ninja garb.
> Now, you're not to look at arab women, so only got a few glances, but a few in the ninja suits...their eyes.....dam....way hot...wished I could have seen the rest of the face, but kept moving.



As much as I think burkas are a product of a shit culture, I have to imagine that the humid and UV-free environment of the burka must do good things for their skin.


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## DaMayor (Jan 27, 2010)

DOMS said:


> I have to imagine that the humid and UV-free environment of the burka must do good things for their skin.


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 27, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Except that burkas perpetuate women as a second class and nothing more than property.
> 
> Even those women that claim to accept it are quite likely to so for the same reason that women stay in abusive relationships: conditioning.
> 
> ...



I get that, but those are their beliefs, not ours.  I don't really know any muslim women who wear burkas, so I don't know how oppressed they are, but it's no worse than having to stay in a loveless marriage because your religion doesn't allow divorce.  In fact, I'd rather have a burka and the ability to divorce than the other way around, although I don't imagine they get either.


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## DOMS (Jan 27, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> I get that, but those are their beliefs, not ours.  I don't really know any muslim women who wear burkas, so I don't know how oppressed they are, but it's no worse than having to stay in a loveless marriage because your religion doesn't allow divorce.  In fact, I'd rather have a burka and the ability to divorce than the other way around, although I don't imagine they get either.



Neither of those are good.  But just because one is bad does not make the other okay.


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## lnvanry (Jan 27, 2010)

DOMS said:


> *Except that burkas perpetuate women as a second class and nothing more than propert*y.
> 
> Even those women that claim to accept it are quite likely to so for the same reason that women stay in abusive relationships: conditioning.
> 
> ...



Thats such a garbage argument...should we ban women from dressing like sluts and prostitutes too?  This women are clearly 2nd class and in many cases nothing more than property of a pimp.

Its not OK for women to be stoned for NOT wearing a ninja outfit either.

Live and let be


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## DOMS (Jan 27, 2010)

lnvanry said:


> Thats such a garbage argument...should we ban women from dressing like sluts and prostitutes too?  This women are clearly 2nd class and in many cases nothing more than property of a pimp.
> 
> Its not OK for women to be stoned for NOT wearing a ninja outfit either.
> 
> Live and let be



What the fuck are you babbling about?

A woman can choose to wear a suit in this country and not be ostracised and beaten.  Also, wearing a burka in Muslim countries IS NOT A CHOICE.  Get it?

In regards to prostitution, when they're treated poorly, aren't there people that stand against it?  Are there whole organizations trying to get women out of the abusive world of prostitution?  Doesn't the pimp go to jail for abuse?

_You're_ argument is no better than people saying it's okay for Obama to fuck up because Bush did.


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## lnvanry (Jan 27, 2010)

DOMS said:


> What the fuck are you babbling about?
> 
> A woman can choose to wear a suit in this country and not be ostracised and beaten.  Also, wearing a burka in Muslim countries IS NOT A CHOICE.  Get it?
> 
> ...




yea, I get it  perhaps I didn't do a good job of typing out my point or you might have misinterpreted what I wrote.  Might have been the double negative usage in the statement.

Point 1: its not alright for France (gov't) to dictate dress if a woman wants to dress like a "2nd class piece of property".

premise:  other women in France dress like 2nd class (hookers) and its still OK

2nd point: its equally wrong for arab gov'ts to stone women who don't wear full burqas.

ultimate conclusion: live and let be

I understand both social perspective in these countries as I've spent about 6months in France and 6 in Egypt/UAE (although UAE isn't exactly representative of the greater Mid East).  Most countries should take note of the UAE's social policies...its a model to follow for repressive islamic regimes.  But wearing a burqa is a choice in many islamic countries (Egypt, UAE, Kuwait, Iran, Pakistan, Jordan).  There may be some very rural areas that enforce wearing a burqa, but thats not the norm is these countries.  Woman are only asked to wear a head scarf...no different than Latin Catholic or older Orthodox Christian churches.


and no, its not OK for Obama to continue feeding the green machine (FED and banking partners) just b/c Bush did...kind of ironic it was the one policy of Bush's that he said was a good course of action during his speech tonight


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## Burner02 (Jan 28, 2010)

I don't know if they said it in my quick breeze reading, but I think it would also be a security concern? 
Who is under that veil?

here's the deal: you may have and live by your culture's ideals if when you are in your homeland. When you move to another region that's culture is different, you must adapt to their culture. 
I remember when I was in the military. We were briefed (especially when went to the ME) their customs and culture and do not disrepect it. (like mentioned in another post about not looking at the females), not taking pics of arabs, and the such.
If I 'have' to respect their culture when in their world, I expect them to do likewise. 
If the visitors do not like the rules of where they are...leave and go back home.
very simple.


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## brk_nemesis (Jan 28, 2010)

Roids1 said:


> It's hard to blame the French when >10% of their population is now muslim.  They're up to their necks in Islamic cess.  Most arab women are fugly and smell like shit, so it's probably just as well.


..and they dont shave.


But its okay,. I know you like em' like that.


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## FMJ (Jan 28, 2010)

I wouldn't be surprised if this has an underlying motive to combating terrorism. Remember years ago, our military was very concerned about these veils because they simply allow people to walk around undetectable. You'll recall that US officials were speculating if Bin Laden actually escaped US forces by posing in full berka and veil. 
Many Al queda militants were also suspected to have used these garbs to escape into neighboring countries. 
Talk about blending in.. how conspicuous would one man in a hundred women be dressed in the same clothing?


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## DOMS (Jan 28, 2010)

Burner02 said:


> I don't know if they said it in my quick breeze reading, but I think it would also be a security concern?
> Who is under that veil?
> 
> here's the deal: you may have and live by your culture's ideals if when you are in your homeland. When you move to another region that's culture is different, you must adapt to their culture.
> ...



I do believe that several years back a terrorist dressed up as a woman, in a burka, and had a bomb hidden his clothing.  So yes, it's definitely a security issue.


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 28, 2010)

DOMS said:


> I do believe that several years back a terrorist dressed up as a woman, in a burka, and had a bomb hidden his clothing.  So yes, it's definitely a security issue.



But ask yourself this...What would the world be like if there were a few less of the French?  I keed, I keed.


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## KelJu (Jan 28, 2010)

Damn, this is a tough one to have an opinion on for me, and I am an opinionated bastard. 

One side of me feels that Islam is garbage, and the faster the french can convert them over to french ideals, the better. 

The other side of me feels that it is the responsibility of the women to break through their mental programming, and evolve as a thinking human. No one can force them, and any attempt will lead to disaster. 

Just think of how long it has taken the US to integrate the races, and even now, we still aren't completely there yet. Trying to force the Muslims to adopt non Islamic practices and ideas would take a very long time. 

Then another side of me feels that the French people better do something before they become an Islamic state in about 3 or 4 decades. 

There is a lot to consider here, and there are no cut and dry solutions.


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## DOMS (Jan 28, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Then another side of me feels that the French people better do something before they become an Islamic state in about 3 or 4 decades.



I believe that this is the foremost reason for the law.

The French have realized that there are way too many mooslims in their country and want to stop the flow, and maybe get some of them to leave.  The problem is that in this day and age, you can't just boot out the undesirables.

So, they're trying to pass laws that make France unfriendly to the mooslims.  I think they've also passed, or are trying to pass, a law that forbids showing any religious symbols in public.  Some of the clothes that mooslims wear falls into this category.  

I say: good for the French!


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## lnvanry (Jan 28, 2010)

if its a security concern should the French ban any heavy clothing that could conceal a bomb or hide a face?  winter coats?  Halloween masks?  Catholic nuns robes?


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## DOMS (Jan 28, 2010)

lnvanry said:


> if its a security concern should the French ban any heavy clothing that could conceal a bomb or hide a face?  winter coats?  Halloween masks?  Catholic nuns robes?



Like I said, that's not really the concern.  The real concern is stopping the flow of mooslims into France by making it mooslim unfriendly, no matter what the cost.

Which is a smart thing to do.


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## min0 lee (Jan 28, 2010)

Is there a reason why there are so many Muslims live there?
There was a riot there a few years ago, I don't remember the reason for it but it may be just them hating their new Country....why don't they just leave and go back to where they came from.

Will America do anything similar to this?


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## doctormomen (Jan 28, 2010)

you Guys still know 0% about islam , i think this's because you r controlled over your media as they show you only what they want you to see, and thus you lose most of the truth....you guys have to pay more effort to know more about islam,as islam is not represented by bin laden and his followers ,islam is totally different, islam was the first to put the rules of respecting and treating the animals ...but as i said you just see what they want you to see.
and what we should take in consideration is that the 10 million muslims in the U.S today are not Immigrants only!! ,but  the most of them are american converts to islam...,and the most surprising in this;is the most of them also converted after 11 sept. ,coz they honestly needed to know the truth.
so guys , i hope u dont just stay here insulting and offending islam,coz islam is not bin laden..,islam is more than 1 billion human around the world.and let's don't forget the Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945 and alot of other,coz if we go into counting ,we'll not end up.
so dont look to islam as it's osama bin laden ,as we not seeing the U.S as it's Roosevelt or J.W Bush.


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## brk_nemesis (Jan 28, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> you Guys still know 0% about islam , i think this's because you r controlled over your media as they show you only what they want you to see, and thus you lose most of the truth....you guys have to pay more effort to know more about islam,as islam is not represented by bin laden and his followers ,islam is totally different, islam was the first to put the rules of respecting and treating the animals ...but as i said you just see what they want you to see.
> and what we should take in consideration is that the 10 million muslims in the U.S today are not Immigrants only!! ,but the most of them are american converts to islam...,and the most surprising in this;is the most of them also converted after 11 sept. ,coz they honestly needed to know the truth.
> so guys , i hope u dont just stay here insulting and offending islam,coz islam is not bin laden..,islam is more than 1 billion human around the world.and let's don't forget the Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945 and alot of other,coz if we go into counting ,we'll not end up.
> so dont look to islam as it's osama bin laden ,as we not seeing the U.S as it's Roosevelt or J.W Bush.



Durka Durka!


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## min0 lee (Jan 29, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> you Guys still know 0% about islam , i think this's because you r controlled over your media as they show you only what they want you to see, and thus you lose most of the truth....you guys have to pay more effort to know more about islam,as islam is not represented by bin laden and his followers ,islam is totally different, islam was the first to put the rules of respecting and treating the animals ...but as i said you just see what they want you to see.
> and what we should take in consideration is that the 10 million muslims in the U.S today are not Immigrants only!! ,but  the most of them are american converts to islam...,and the most surprising in this;is the most of them also converted after 11 sept. ,coz they honestly needed to know the truth.
> so guys , i hope u dont just stay here insulting and offending islam,coz islam is not bin laden..,islam is more than 1 billion human around the world.and let's don't forget the Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945 and alot of other,coz if we go into counting ,we'll not end up.
> so dont look to islam as it's osama bin laden ,as we not seeing the U.S as it's Roosevelt or J.W Bush.




Big difference between what we did and what Bin Laden did.

We were in a war, we declared war and I do believe we gave Japan the option of surrendering (I could be wrong) before we bombed them. The aftermath to that is a treaty against bombing a Country like that...again I may be wrong. We reticulated after the Japs bombed Pearl Harbor.

Now what Bin Ladin did was just sneaky...no warning at all. That's cowardly....He doesn't even have a country....have to go!


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## doctormomen (Jan 29, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> Big difference between what we did and what Bin Laden did.
> 
> We were in a war, we declared war and I do believe we gave Japan the option of surrendering (I could be wrong) before we bombed them. The aftermath to that is a treaty against bombing a Country like that...again I may be wrong. We reticulated after the Japs bombed Pearl Harbor.
> 
> Now what Bin Ladin did was just sneaky...no warning at all. That's cowardly....He doesn't even have a country....have to go!



ok .i respect your view ,..but what u can say about Vietnam and lately Iraq....etc .
i really dont like to go into counting and so... why don't we just forget the past and try to live in real peace , why should i represent the whole nation by few people?am i right?
we can live in real peace if we really need the truth 
we can discuss everything with  a clear view,we can love each other really when we look to each other as an equal humans,not an angel and an terrorist on the other side.
you guys are open minded enough to differentiate between the terrorist and the innocents.so all what i hope is to seek a new start ! ,and what will we lose ??
thank u guys , keep it up


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## bio-chem (Jan 29, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> you Guys still know 0% about islam , i think this's because you r controlled over your media as they show you only what they want you to see, and thus you lose most of the truth....you guys have to pay more effort to know more about islam,as islam is not represented by bin laden and his followers ,islam is totally different, islam was the first to put the rules of respecting and treating the animals ...but as i said you just see what they want you to see.
> and what we should take in consideration is that the 10 million muslims in the U.S today are not Immigrants only!! ,but  the most of them are american converts to islam...,and the most surprising in this;is the most of them also converted after 11 sept. ,coz they honestly needed to know the truth.
> so guys , i hope u dont just stay here insulting and offending islam,coz islam is not bin laden..,islam is more than 1 billion human around the world.and let's don't forget the Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945 and alot of other,coz if we go into counting ,we'll not end up.
> so dont look to islam as it's osama bin laden ,as we not seeing the U.S as it's Roosevelt or J.W Bush.



yea, i'm going to need you to back up your claims with a little bit of fact. most of the 10 million muslims in the US are converts after 2001? islam is not the fastest growing religion in the US dude and 5 million new convert members in 8 years would make it that.

by the way Americans do not look at Islam as we do Osama Bin Ladden.we know there are excellent Muslim people here in the US and our Armed Forces. we easily recognize that there is a divide in Islam currently between what Allah intended and what the radical fucked up faction of Islam has done to it. But the radical fucked up faction of Islam has declared war on us. they have attacked us and so we have gone to the countries that support these factions and we have policed them because mainstream Islam will not police itself. 

Christianity had to do it with the KKK and other radical Christian factions. we policed ourselves, but mainstream Islam sits by idly while it's smaller radical faction goes out and misrepresents what Mohammad intended. So until mainstream Islam has the nuts to stand up against the radicals and take charge  we will go out and defend ourselves from the osama's out there.


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## doctormomen (Jan 29, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> yea, i'm going to need you to back up your claims with a little bit of fact. most of the 10 million muslims in the US are converts after 2001? islam is not the fastest growing religion in the US dude and 5 million new convert members in 8 years would make it that.
> 
> by the way Americans do not look at Islam as we do Osama Bin Ladden.we know there are excellent Muslim people here in the US and our Armed Forces. we easily recognize that there is a divide in Islam currently between what Allah intended and what the radical fucked up faction of Islam has done to it. But the radical fucked up faction of Islam has declared war on us. they have attacked us and so we have gone to the countries that support these factions and we have policed them because mainstream Islam will not police itself.
> 
> Christianity had to do it with the KKK and other radical Christian factions. we policed ourselves, but mainstream Islam sits by idly while it's smaller radical faction goes out and misrepresents what Mohammad intended. So until mainstream Islam has the nuts to stand up against the radicals and take charge  we will go out and defend ourselves from the osama's out there.



ok thank you for ur opinion..but in the fact iraq havn't attacked you to go to their country and cause all this mess that led to killing of more than 655,000 innocent civilian at the least statistics,and that's why im not blaming you, you r not Mr Bush,and like wise, i'm not bin laden,and thank you that u got this point.
and _*this is a video  *_for american soldier that participated in the war on iraq.
and about islam growing , maybe im wrong about statistics ,but i want you to see those videos 
_*this one*_ warns from the growing of islam with statistics
and those for americans that converted after 11 sept.
_*here *_
and _*here *_
and alot of otheres u can watch on youtube.

thank you for your view.


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## bandaidwoman (Jan 29, 2010)

I'm from Malaysia where the mainstream Muslims condemn the radical Bin laden misinterpretation of Islam and is doing its best to condemn that type of thinking and behavior

Islam, Terrorism and Malaysia's Response | Asia Society




> In Malaysia they killed a Christian State Assemblyman, tried to steal arms from a police station, robbed banks and exploded ineffectively a few bombs in odd places. But eventually they were tracked down and arrested.
> 
> We have dealt with the would-be Muslim terrorists with circumspection. The majority of the people of Malaysia, Muslims and non-Muslims, support the Government's action




I'm not muslim, but went to public schools in Malaysia that were muslim, it was interesting that the Islam I learned allowed women to own property and have many rights that were denied  in the old testament towards women,

http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/law/lwsch/journals/bciclr/23_2/01_FMS.htm

 I believe one of the second in military commands to Mohamed was a woman

There are many muslims on our side. I work side by side with Iranian doctors and scientists who do not support a theocracy of any type ( unfortunately many of them are here because they had to flee after the prowestern Shah of Iran was thrown out of power)  They try to get their voice heard back home but it is hard across a vast ocean....


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## Dark Geared God (Jan 29, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> you Guys still know 0% about islam , i think this's because you r controlled over your media as they show you only what they want you to see, and thus you lose most of the truth....you guys have to pay more effort to know more about islam,as islam is not represented by bin laden and his followers ,islam is totally different, islam was the first to put the rules of respecting and treating the animals ...but as i said you just see what they want you to see.
> and what we should take in consideration is that the 10 million muslims in the U.S today are not Immigrants only!! ,but the most of them are american converts to islam...,and the most surprising in this;is the most of them also converted after 11 sept. ,coz they honestly needed to know the truth.
> so guys , i hope u dont just stay here insulting and offending islam,coz islam is not bin laden..,islam is more than 1 billion human around the world.and let's don't forget the Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945 and alot of other,coz if we go into counting ,we'll not end up.
> so dont look to islam as it's osama bin laden ,as we not seeing the U.S as it's Roosevelt or J.W Bush.


 
so i guess u been to the middle east.. well they use mules. ect packed up explosive and use them to blow up people they hate.. fact.....


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## doctormomen (Jan 29, 2010)

The Situation said:


> so i guess u been to the middle east.. well they use mules. ect packed up explosive and use them to blow up people they hate.. fact.....



Man, im Egyptian and Muslim. maybe that happens in iraq and Afghanistan due to all this mess caused by the american army!


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## maniclion (Jan 29, 2010)

It's just a thug mentality gone global, most of those terrorists only use their religious extremism as a springboard for the hate they have....

NEO-NAZI/ISLAM CONNECTION

For many years, the rhetoric of a right wing neo-Nazi named Albert Huber was a favorite of American Right-Wing extremists. His virulent words, condemning Zionists and discounting the holocaust, aroused the hatred in their sordid minds. He was a regular at Aryan Youth, and Nation of Islam, meetings. He preaches that neo-Nazis and Muslims around the world should join ranks to defeat the Zionists. Interestingly, Huber, now called Ahmad, converted to Islam during the 1960s. In the mid-1990s, Huber, a Christian-born Swiss journalist, once sat at the feet of Ayatollah Khomeini at an Islamic gathering in Tehran, Iran where he lectured to the attendants. He has, according to sources, in recent months, been approached by representatives of Osama bin-Laden and praised for his teachings. Huber describes the September 11th attacks as “counter terror against American-Israeli terror” but denies having any connection to terrorists...

Theres also speculation that Terry Nichols, involved in the Oklahoma City Bombing, may have met with al-Qaeda members while picking up his mailorder filipina wife in Cebu....


----------



## DOMS (Jan 29, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> Man, im Egyptian and Muslim.



Sorry to hear that.  Maybe there's a cream for that?


----------



## doctormomen (Jan 29, 2010)

maniclion said:


> It's just a thug mentality gone global, most of those terrorists only use their religious extremism as a springboard for the hate they have....
> 
> NEO-NAZI/ISLAM CONNECTION
> 
> ...



thank you for ur view,but again and again they really don't represent us as muslims.


DOMS said:


> Sorry to hear that.  Maybe there's a cream for that?



well, is this a sort of irony or some thing ???


----------



## DOMS (Jan 29, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> well, is this a sort of irony or some thing ???



Not even in an Alanis Morissette sort of way.

Whiskey.
Tango.
Foxtrot.


----------



## maniclion (Jan 29, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> thank you for ur view,but again and again they really don't represent us as muslims.
> 
> 
> well, is this a sort of irony or some thing ???


Do I stutter when I type and not know it?  I thought I was being very clear when I mentioned that these type of people only use religion as an excuse to be hateful assholes.  Take Terry Nichols for example again, he was an Aryan purist but he went and married a filipina woman, these people are hypocrites to what they stand for because they don't really stand for anything except for being hateful maggots, if there were a Fuck The World To Make it Better Coalition they could all join they would but instead they join what they believe is a noble cause so they can vent their anger and frustrations with being total losers in society....


----------



## doctormomen (Jan 29, 2010)

maniclion said:


> Do I stutter when I type and not know it?  I thought I was being very clear when I mentioned that these type of people only use religion as an excuse to be hateful assholes.  Take Terry Nichols for example again, he was an Aryan purist but he went and married a filipina woman, these people are hypocrites to what they stand for because they don't really stand for anything except for being hateful maggots, if there were a Fuck The World To Make it Better Coalition they could all join they would but instead they join what they believe is a noble cause so they can vent their anger and frustrations with being total losers in society....



thank you man again , i got the point b4 .  the question was for Doms.


----------



## brk_nemesis (Jan 29, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> Man, im Egyptian and Muslim. maybe that happens in iraq and Afghanistan *due to all this mess caused by the american army!*



really? And whats your excuse for Saddams actions before we ever went in? How about when he voluntarily invaded Kuwait? Im sure the US made him do that, hell just blame us for all the conflicts over there while you're at it.

You are aware that if we didnt attack Afghanistan (aka the Taliban) due to terrorist ties aka 9/11,.. that Iran would have right? You do realize that Iran amassed a large number of its on Army on the border to invade Afghanistan and take on the Taliban right before 9/11, with the assassination of the Northern Alliance Leader, and Irani Embassy Bombings influencing their decision, right? You do realize that Iran supplied the US with ground info and intelligence for the bombing campaign and info on organizing with the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan via 6+2 Group, right? And Iran is a country we supposedly have never gotten along with.

My point is America is responsible for no mess. We have done our best to protect our own country, which is full of *ALL races and religions, including Muslims*. War would have came to the area anyway. The middle east has been war torn for hundreds of years and always will be. Its just so much easier to blame the US for the wars over there when the fact is none of you people could, and never will, get along. You speak of peace? ha! Thats funny. I dont see various sects of Christianity over here blowing each other up because one states that their sect is better.


Have a nice day.


----------



## theCaptn' (Jan 29, 2010)

The Capt thinks the French are a pack of cunts . .  all of them


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 30, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> ok thank you for ur opinion..but in the fact iraq havn't attacked you to go to their country and cause all this mess that led to killing of more than 655,000 innocent civilian at the least statistics,and that's why im not blaming you, you r not Mr Bush,and like wise, i'm not bin laden,and thank you that u got this point.
> and _*this is a video  *_for american soldier that participated in the war on iraq.
> and about islam growing , maybe im wrong about statistics ,but i want you to see those videos
> _*this one*_ warns from the growing of islam with statistics
> ...



no Iraq attacked it's neighbors in 1991. we were then asked by kuwait and neighboring saudia arabia to go and take care of business. the list of atrocities accomplished by the regime of sadam huissen is a mile long. the guy was evil and on par with Hitler. anyone making the stupid claim that we picked on poor little helpless iraq can kiss my white ass. the guy gassed his own people.

 the iraqi people have an opportunity for the rule of law in their country now. I hope they are smart enough to take advantage of the wonderful opportunity we are providing them.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 30, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> Man, im Egyptian and Muslim. maybe that happens in iraq and Afghanistan due to all this mess caused by the american army!


----------



## Dale Mabry (Jan 30, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> no Iraq attacked it's neighbors in 1991. we were then asked by kuwait and neighboring saudia arabia to go and take care of business. the list of atrocities accomplished by the regime of sadam huissen is a mile long. the guy was evil and on par with Hitler. anyone making the stupid claim that we picked on poor little helpless iraq can kiss my white ass. the guy gassed his own people.
> 
> the iraqi people have an opportunity for the rule of law in their country now. I hope they are smart enough to take advantage of the wonderful opportunity we are providing them.



Come on...I'll give you the guy was an asshole, and a horrible person.  However, there are far greater atrocities currently happening in Darfur and the Congo yet we have yet to get involved.  Oil...just admit it.  And the worst part is, we didn't get any oil, and we aren't getting any oil.


----------



## FMJ (Jan 30, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Come on...I'll give you the guy was an asshole, and a horrible person. However, there are far greater atrocities currently happening in Darfur and the Congo yet we have yet to get involved. Oil...just admit it. And the worst part is, we didn't get any oil, and we aren't getting any oil.


 
Yeah, it was definitly something... I mean I was on board after 9/11. Bin Ladin attacked the US. We retaliated. Bottom line. After that, I dunno why Bush decided to go after Saddam. I guess he just thought it was convienient since he was already right next door. I personally wasn't in agreement with it, but I never once was opposed to it. Those are our people over there fighting for our freedom and safety afterall. I just wish we took out Bin Ladin, the Taliban and then called it a day. Fuckin' Bush went on to declair war on allllllll of terrorism. That's like trying to erraticate the Flu. To have such an unreachable goal, there had to be some other motive. IMO.


----------



## Dark Geared God (Jan 30, 2010)

maniclion said:


> Do I stutter when I type and not know it? I thought I was being very clear when I mentioned that these type of people only use religion as an excuse to be hateful assholes. Take Terry Nichols for example again, he was an Aryan purist but he went and married a filipina woman, these people are hypocrites to what they stand for because they don't really stand for anything except for being hateful maggots, if there were a Fuck The World To Make it Better Coalition they could all join they would but instead they join what they believe is a noble cause so they can vent their anger and frustrations with being total losers in society....


 
terry nichols was an atheist, though he was a nazi he wanted to start a race war..


----------



## Dark Geared God (Jan 30, 2010)

* Ba'ath Party* (also spelled *Ba'th* or *Baath* which means "resurrection or renaissance"; Arabic: حزب البعث العربي الاشتراكي‎) is a political party in the Arab World advocating the related concepts of Arab nationalism, Pan-Arabism, and Arab socialism. It was founded in Damascus, Syria in 1940 by the Syrian intellectuals Michel Aflaq, and Salah al-Bitar, as a secular Arab nationalist movement opposed to Western imperialism in the Arab World, and seeking to unify all Arab countries in one state. In Arabic, _Baʿath_ means "renaissance" or "resurrection", referring to Aflaq and al-Bitar's vision of 'resurrecting' the freedom and glory of the _Arab Nation_ that had been destroyed by Ottoman, and Western imperialism (an idea covered in Michel Aflaq???s published works _On The Way Of Resurrection_).
Since its inception, the Ba'ath has functioned as a pan-Arab political party with branches in different Arab countries, but has only ever been in power in Syria and Iraq. The Ba'ath Party came to power in Syria on 8 March 1963 and has held a monopoly on political power since. Ba'athists also seized power in Iraq in 1963, but were later deposed by the Iraqi military. They re-gained power via a coup d'etat in July 1968, and remained the sole party of government until the 2003 Iraq invasion.
In 1955 a _coup d'état_ by the military against the historical leadership of Michel Aflaq and Salah Bitar led the Syrian and Iraqi parties to split into rival organizations ??? the Qotri (or Regionalist) Syria-based party being aligned with the Soviet Union, while the Qawmi (or Nationalist) Iraq-based party adopted a generally more centrist stance.[1] Both Ba'ath parties retained the same name and maintained parallel structures in the Arab World. After the coup, Aflaq fled to Brazil.
Inspired by the French Jacobin political doctrine linking national unity and social equity,[2] the motto of the Party is "Unity, Liberty, Socialism" (in Arabic _wahda, hurriya, ishtirakiya_). Unity refers to Arab unity, liberty emphasizes being free from foreign control and interference, and socialism refers to Arab socialism rather than to European socialism, or communism.
Today, the Ba'ath Party continues to govern Syria, however, the Party in Iraq was overthrown by the U.S. led invasion of Iraq in 2003, and subsequently banned by the occupying Coalition Provisional Authority.


----------



## bio-chem (Jan 30, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Come on...I'll give you the guy was an asshole, and a horrible person.  However, there are far greater atrocities currently happening in Darfur and the Congo yet we have yet to get involved.  Oil...just admit it.  And the worst part is, we didn't get any oil, and we aren't getting any oil.



if our domestic needs tie into our foreign policy i'm really not that concerned.

truth is I really can see a stable iraq emerging out of all this. I don't think anything short of the second coming of Christ will fix the Congo. I know this sounds callous, but limited resources forces us to make choices


----------



## DOMS (Jan 30, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> if our domestic needs tie into our foreign policy i'm really not that concerned.
> 
> truth is I really can see a stable iraq emerging out of all this. I don't think anything short of the second coming of Christ will fix the Congo. I know this sounds callous, but limited resources forces us to make choices



First off, the US was called in by the (useless) UN to handle Saddam when he tried to annex Kuwait.  We went in, kicked ass, and then told Saddam to clean up his act or we'd finish the job.  14 years later, he hadn't so we did finish the job-which was our choice to make.

However, I did hear a credible reason why did that didn't relate to safety (such as his funding terrorists): Saddam was pushing to get oil traded in euros rather than dollars.  I can buy into that being made a factor.


----------



## theCaptn' (Jan 30, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> no Iraq attacked it's neighbors in 1991. we were then asked by kuwait and neighboring saudia arabia to go and take care of business. the list of atrocities accomplished by the regime of sadam huissen is a mile long. the guy was evil and on par with Hitler. anyone making the stupid claim that we picked on poor little helpless iraq can kiss my white ass. the guy gassed his own people.
> 
> the iraqi people have an opportunity for the rule of law in their country now. I hope they are smart enough to take advantage of the wonderful opportunity we are providing them.


 
how fucking self-serving is that statement?????

So, I dont see US stepping in to help Zimbabwe . . Robert Mugabe is equally fucked up . .  what's the difference???

Oil . .  . let's recognise it for what it is. Oil motherfucker. Democracy . .  how fucking brainwashed are you????

It runs your fucking economy. And the US are willing to sacrifice soldiers for it to ensure the Chinese, Russians or even Iranians dont get their hands on it.


----------



## lnvanry (Jan 30, 2010)

CaptRichArund said:


> how fucking self-serving is that statement?????
> 
> So, I dont see US stepping in to help Zimbabwe . . Robert Mugabe is equally fucked up . .  what's the difference???
> 
> ...



Its runs the global economy...not just ours.

and the Russians and Iranians already have plenty of their own...they don't necessarily need Iraq's oil.  If anything, they strongly profit from the instability of the petro market.


----------



## lnvanry (Jan 30, 2010)

DOMS said:


> First off, the US was called in by the (useless) UN to handle Saddam when he tried to annex Kuwait.  We went in, kicked ass, and then told Saddam to clean up his act or we'd finish the job.  14 years later, he hadn't so we did finish the job-which was our choice to make.
> 
> However, I did hear a credible reason why did that didn't relate to safety (such as his funding terrorists): Saddam was pushing to get oil traded in euros rather than dollars.  I can buy into that being made a factor.



Iraq switching to petro euros would really damage the US economy and could cause a domino effect which would detrimental to the US economy and anyone who hold US dollars in their treasury reserves (3/4 of the world, including China).


----------



## Hoglander (Jan 30, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> I'm from Malaysia where the mainstream Muslims condemn the radical Bin laden misinterpretation of Islam and is doing its best to condemn that type of thinking and behavior
> 
> Islam, Terrorism and Malaysia's Response | Asia Society
> 
> ...



I can't give this wonderful intelligent person reps because I have to "spread them around." She needs props. HE"S A FIGHTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:  )


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## bandaidwoman (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks hoglander,

I think Islam is in the midst of a very pivotal struggle for its true identity, much like christianity during its dark medieval ages.  

As an athiest who has read both the Quran and the bible ( went to muslim and christian schools) I find both books beautiful and barbaric at the same time. At an  early stage, Islam declared that women were the twin halves of men at a time when the Christian world doubted the humanity of woman and the nature of her soul.  

Unfortunately, Islam as it exists in marginal countries where there is political instability and constant conflict and poor economies, breed an extreme interpretation and thus presents an ugly face to most westerners. It is no coincidece that Malaysia ( highly profitable country due to its rubber export industry breeds mostly humane, peaceful muslims).  However, let me tell you that christianity still carries that ugly mask in China where in the 19th century the Taiping rebellion ( a christian led movement) resulted in the second bloodiest conflict in history.  ( You wonder why the chinese are such sobs about confiscating missionary bibles even to this day).. The Ottoman muslims never raped and killed so many chinese like the Taiping rebellion.   Both religions are equally ugly to most chinese to this day.

We don't define christianity by the terroristic organizations  like the Irish IRA or the christian terrorists National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) who wreak havoc in India.  Doctormomen is just asking us to do the same. 

If you don't think moderate muslims exist just look at the recent elections in Iran where the moderate voice really tried to make itself heard.  There is obviously a significant amount of enlightened muslims even in states like Pakistan who elected a female ( Bhutto) to be leader of their country at least twice.....


----------



## DOMS (Jan 31, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> As an athiest who has read both the Quran and the bible ( went to muslim and christian schools) I find both books beautiful and barbaric at the same time. At an  early stage, Islam declared that women were the twin halves of men at a time when the Christian world doubted the humanity of woman and the nature of her soul.



Let me see if I'm following you correctly.  

Early Christian belief: woman rate less than a soulless cow.
Early Muslim belief: woman are so equal, they're almost better.

which made the obvious translation into the modern day:

Modern Christian treatment: woman are equal and often enjoy benefits not open to men.
Modern Muslim treatment: burkas and getting stoned (not in the good way).

Did I miss something?


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Jan 31, 2010)

Sure, both religions have seen their share of extremism.  But. the situation of 500 years ago is hardly relevant now.  The Chinese are equal opressors when it comes to religion.  They have oppressed Christians, Muslims, and Buddhists alike eversince becomine a Communist state.  

Maylasian muslims are mostly of Chinese descent also.  They are far more peaceful primarily due to cultural reasons.  Islam, like any other religion is an overlay on the existing culture, but does not fundamentally change the underlying culture.  In the arab world, you see women of other religions being stoned (not in a good way) for dating outside of their religion (ex. Yezidi girl in Iraq recently) as well as muslim women.  This is because Arab culture is an inherently barbaric and vile culture, regardless of the religion being practiced.


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## bandaidwoman (Feb 1, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Let me see if I'm following you correctly.
> 
> Early Christian belief: woman rate less than a soulless cow.
> Early Muslim belief: woman are so equal, they're almost better.
> ...



enlightened muslims dont consider women less inferior, ( When I went to a muslim school I was encouraged to become a scientist or doctor, ironically when I went to the prestigious christian Dalat shool in malaysia they told me I should only be  a nurse with my mathmatical talents) .  The muslim school  taught me that women and men were the wings of a bird, both playing an equal and important role.  Having read both the Quaran and the christian bible, the quaran was light years ahead of other relgions when it came to women's rights.  Ufortunately, the modern fundamentalists have redefined the quaran to fit their mysoginistic agenda.  Islam in a tribal, war like culture like the afghani taliban will interpret it in a completely light from the enlightened Malaysians.  ( By the way, most of the muslims in Malaysia were Malay or Indonesian).



> The Chinese are equal opressors when it comes to religion. They have oppressed Christians, Muslims, and Buddhists alike eversince becomine a Communist state



Paranoi fueled by the Taiping Rebellion. Honestly, the most horrific and bloody event in the history of mankind ( It still is the largest revolution in the history of mankind and until wwII came along, the most bloodiest) yet history as taught in America never mentions it. In 1983 I took an advanced placement history class in my high school in New York and my professor accussed me of lying when I bought up the Taiping rebellion. It was mortifying.


----------



## KelJu (Feb 1, 2010)

Give a stupid person a weapon, and they will probably end up hurting someone. 

Give a stupid person a religion, and they will probably end up hurting a lot of people.


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 1, 2010)

Thank You all Guys for sharing ur opinions.as i see most of guys here  need some more info about islam;the true islam, the religion of peace and mercy.
this is such a great book to make the start,just  a brief illustrated guide to understand islam.
_* here a pdf direct link *_
        or
 read it on Google books 
 *  Here*

waiting ur views after u read it.,,
Godd luck


----------



## tucker01 (Feb 2, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> Thank You all Guys for sharing ur opinions.as i see most of guys here  need some more info about islam;the true islam, the religion of peace and mercy.
> this is such a great book to make the start,just  a brief illustrated guide to understand islam.
> _* here a pdf direct link *_
> or
> ...



It doesnt matter what the true vision of any religion is, if a bunch of whack jobs misinterpret the readings to suit there own vision.


----------



## bio-chem (Feb 2, 2010)

IainDaniel said:


> It doesnt matter what the true vision of any religion is, if a bunch of whack jobs misinterpret the readings to suit there own vision.



so true, so very true


----------



## maniclion (Feb 2, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> Thank You all Guys for sharing ur opinions.as i see most of guys here  need some more info about islam;the true islam, the religion of peace and mercy.
> this is such a great book to make the start,just  a brief illustrated guide to understand islam.
> _* here a pdf direct link *_
> or
> ...


Do you have the coloring book version?


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 2, 2010)

maniclion said:


> Do you have the coloring book version?



The pdf copy is colored in the first link i posted.


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 2, 2010)

IainDaniel said:


> It doesnt matter what the true vision of any religion is, if a bunch of whack jobs misinterpret the readings to suit there own vision.



thank you ,ok you are Right,but what if this Vision is confirmed by your scientists in Biology,chemistry,Physics,Geology...etc.what if They became able to know those discoveries just short time ago,While it mentioned and described in the Qur'an 1400 years ago??!! something deserve to think about


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## GearsMcGilf (Feb 2, 2010)

Here's a good site if you want to read the truth about the religion of "peace" founded by the warlord muhammed, who was also a pedophile and a pirate.

www.prophetofdoom.net



> Islam is a caustic blend of regurgitated paganism and twisted Bible stories. Muhammad, its lone prophet, conceived his religion solely to satiate his lust for power, sex, and money. He was a terrorist. And if you think these conclusions are shocking, wait until you see the evidence.
> The critics of this work will claim that _Prophet of Doom_ is offensive, racist, hatemongering, intolerant, and unnecessarily violent. I agree - but I didn't write those parts. They came directly from Islam???s scriptures. If you don't like what Muhammad and Allah said, don't blame me. I'm just the messenger.


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 2, 2010)

maniclion said:


> Do you have the coloring book version?





doctormomen said:


> The pdf copy is colored in the first link i posted.


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 2, 2010)

Roids1 said:


> Here's a good site if you want to read the truth about the religion of "peace" founded by the warlord muhammed, who was also a pedophile and a pirate.
> 
> www.prophetofdoom.net




well,  i think we know our language "Arabic" more than any one other,exactly as you know English more than us.so this site was built on misunderstanding of our own language grammar and meanings.that's all  
just asking,why American scientists say the truth about matching of their discoveries to what mentioned in Qur'an 1400 years ago??!!


----------



## bandaidwoman (Feb 2, 2010)

Roids1 said:


> Here's a good site if you want to read the truth about the religion of "peace" founded by the warlord muhammed, who was also a pedophile and a pirate.
> 
> www.prophetofdoom.net




since I've read the quran and the bible 
here the op ed to the same kind of nonsense from an islamic point of view


Pedophilia and Terrorism in the Bible on www.answering-christianity.com

Honestly, if you read both books they are very similar, except I remember  in the quranic garden of eden, both  adam and eve committed the original sin, not eve. Thus, both sexes were equally complicit in the original sin.  Lots of war, a very pissed of god, angels, the devil etc etc. Both books have their barbarism and incredible poetry.


----------



## KelJu (Feb 2, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> well,  i think we know our language "Arabic" more than any one other,exactly as you know English more than us.so this site was built on misunderstanding of our own language grammar and meanings.that's all
> just asking,why American scientists say the truth about matching of their discoveries to what mentioned in Qur'an 1400 years ago??!!



Umm I am certain that science calls bullshit on every religion known to man. The only religion that has even a remotely redeeming quality is the modern variant of Buddhism. Even then, science only cares about some of the practices and discards the mysticism. 

You are full of horseshit. Thank you, bye bye, come again.


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 2, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Umm I am certain that science calls bullshit on every religion known to man. The only religion that has even a remotely redeeming quality is the modern variant of Buddhism. Even then, science only cares about some of the practices and discards the mysticism.
> 
> You are full of horseshit. Thank you, bye bye, come again.


lol  this bullshit u call,was discovered by the american scientists.,so when some one don't believe in religion,science at least..,beside disrespect , then i doubt that he has something in his little head called the brain.
 The Islamophobia


----------



## DOMS (Feb 2, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> lol  this bullshit u call,was discovered by the american scientists.,so when some one don't believe in religion,science at least..,beside disrespect , then i doubt that he has something in his little head called the brain.
> The Islamophobia



Islamophobia?  I forget...is that the fear of being blown up?  I think I might have that one.

In any case, KelJu is an atheist.  He doesn't believe in any religion.  Which, I'm pretty sure, is what he said.  But I find it interesting that you're trying to make it sound as if he has a special hate-on for the Islamic faith.

In other words, the problem isn't with him--it's with you.


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 2, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Islamophobia?  I forget...is that the fear of being blown up?  I think I might have that one.
> 
> In any case, KelJu is an atheist.  He doesn't believe in any religion.  Which, I'm pretty sure, is what he said.  But I find it interesting that you're trying to make it sound as if he has a special hate-on for the Islamic faith.
> 
> In other words, the problem isn't with him--it's with you.


actually i have no problems.
Anyway im not here for fighting,but i havnt called some one "full of horseshit" otherwise,this is the meaning of civilization in your view.at least i respect every one i talk to ,whatever his color,race,mind.


----------



## DOMS (Feb 2, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> actually i have no problems.



Not true.  He said he didn't believe in any religion and you shit on him for being an "islamophobe."



doctormomen said:


> i respect every one i talk to ,whatever his color,race,mind.



That's awesome!  That's special!  Good for you!

Of course...it's not something we have in common...


----------



## KelJu (Feb 2, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> lol  this bullshit u call,was discovered by the american scientists.,so when some one don't believe in religion,science at least..,beside disrespect , then i doubt that he has something in his little head called the brain.
> The Islamophobia




I can find you a scientist that says turds are the perfect nutrition. That doesn't make turd sandwiches a good idea for breakfast. 

I don't think you are a terrorist, and I don't think most Arabs are terrorist. I have no hate at all for Arabs or Islam. But, I have no respect for your way of life or your religion. 

I respect truth and fact. Islam provides neither.


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## DOMS (Feb 2, 2010)

KelJu said:


> I can find you a scientist that says turds are the perfect nutrition.



Ah, I see you've run into the Atkins diet as well.


----------



## KelJu (Feb 2, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Ah, I see you've run into the Atkins diet as well.



That must be why everyone doing Atkin's complain of bad breath.


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 2, 2010)

KelJu said:


> I can find you a scientist that says turds are the perfect nutrition. That doesn't make turd sandwiches a good idea for breakfast.
> 
> I don't think you are a terrorist, and I don't think most Arabs are terrorist. I have no hate at all for Arabs or Islam. But, I have no respect for your way of life or your religion.
> 
> I respect truth and fact. Islam provides neither.


 thank you..
1) when Qur'an 1400 years ago  describes your development when you was an embryo in your mom's uterus ,the shape of the mountains ,the clouds formations and rain,the waves formation.....etc ,then what the facts then you believe in??
these facts not proven by some one in the street, it was proven by the most complicated equipments that science ever developed,and what?? how many years ago they were able to ??!!
and simply ,when you deny this facts, you dont neglect the scientist only,but you put the whole science itself aside.
i think those facts differ enough from the sandwitch 
2)and i would be glad if you shared what u learned and red in islam to make certain that it provides none ,as long as i can't make a decision without gathering enough info,right?


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## DOMS (Feb 2, 2010)

This is gonna be good...


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## bio-chem (Feb 2, 2010)

Damn this reputation thing. This damn thing won't let me rep the people I want to. +1 to Kelju and DOMS for everything they have posted  in this thread


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## maniclion (Feb 3, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> thank you..
> 
> 2)and i would be glad if you shared what u learned and red in islam to make certain that it provides none ,as long as i can't make a decision without gathering enough info,right?



Well the fact that it was a bastardization of Judaism and Christianity picked up from fragments Muhammad, living with his uncle on a trade route near Mecca, pieced together from meeting Badu tribes on their way to the city to worship at the Kabah (a temple for all Gods of all religions basically)is a start.  If I mock the Tanakh, Talmud, Torah and Bible for it's fairy tales and hypocriticisms then surely I can't believe the cubist version....


----------



## KelJu (Feb 3, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> thank you..
> 1) when Qur'an 1400 years ago  describes your development when you was an embryo in your mom's uterus ,the shape of the mountains ,the clouds formations and rain,the waves formation.....etc ,then what the facts then you believe in??
> these facts not proven by some one in the street, it was proven by the most complicated equipments that science ever developed,and what?? how many years ago they were able to ??!!
> and simply ,when you deny this facts, you dont neglect the scientist only,but you put the whole science itself aside.
> ...




The Quran doesn't say shit about embryos! There is not a single passage in the Quran which mentions the ovum or chromosomes. Do Simpson, the scientist that supposedly discovered that the Quran predicted prenatal development, said he was misquoted. 

This quote is straight from the Wall Street Journal:


> Dr. Simpson now says he made some comments that sound "silly and embarrassing" taken out of context, but no matter: Mideast television shows, Muslim books and Web sites still quote him as saying the Quran must have been "derived from God," because it foresaw modern discoveries in embryology and genetics.
> 
> ... Prof. Simpson -- who attended conferences in Saudi Arabia, Cairo and Islamabad -- recalls being asked to analyze an anecdote from the Sunnah, an Islamic holy book recording the acts and words of the prophet, in view of modern genetics.
> 
> ...




It takes Islamic religious person to be so dumb as to assume a story about your wife getting knocked up by a black man and red marks on camels is an indication that your hooky ass religion is backed by science.


----------



## brk_nemesis (Feb 3, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> thank you..
> 1) *when Qur'an 1400 years ago describes your development when you was an embryo in your mom's uterus ,the shape of the mountains ,the clouds formations and rain,the waves formation.....etc* ,then what the facts then you believe in??
> these facts not proven by some one in the street, it was proven by the most complicated equipments that science ever developed,and what?? how many years ago they were able to ??!!
> and simply ,when you deny this facts, you dont neglect the scientist only,but you put the whole science itself aside.


Hmmm I was under the assumption all of this was common knowledge long before the Qu'ran?


Thank you, nice try.


----------



## DOMS (Feb 3, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> Damn this reputation thing. This damn thing won't let me rep the people I want to. +1 to Kelju and DOMS for everything they have posted  in this thread



Well, aw, schucks... 

It's the thought that counts.


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 3, 2010)

KelJu said:


> The Quran doesn't say shit about embryos! There is not a single passage in the Quran which mentions the ovum or chromosomes.


kool, im sure now that u didn't read in Qur'an and don't have knowledge about it.
is that All what you know about embryo?? the development is only ovum or chromosome!!what after that ??
review Qur'an (23:12-14)Allah said  "" _We Created man from an extract of clay.then We made him as a notfah *(drop*) in a place of settlement,firmly fixed.Then We made the drop into an alaqah *(Leech*=*suspended thing,and blood clot* )then We made the leech into mudghhah (*chewed substance*)""_

*Since ALLAH told the Qur'an in Arabic,and this is the English translation for it,so the words in Red are the Arabic ones,the bold blue is the closest resemble in English.
1)*Notfah* when translated in English means Sperm or drop ( you can use google translate to make sure). in Arabic it is written as : نـطـفـة
2) the place of settlement to which the sperm is fixed,is clear to be the uterus.
3)then the sperm with the ovum takes the shape of the leech= عـلـقـة
and all this descriptions u can review in the book i posted,.sorry it's too long and time wasting to rewrite it again,since u can get the book.

so .. this was a simple clearing of the truth.

*** now regarding to dr Simpson, why u just get out from the path?
what about Professor Emeritus Keith L.Moore,the author of book "the developing human" which has been translated to 8 languages,this book is a scientific reference work and was chosen by a special committee in the USA as the best book authored by one person.He is also The Professor of Anatomy and cell biology at the University of Toronto,Canada.

**what about Aristole,the founder of the embryology science,who couldnt give any details about these stage in the 7th century,while it was detailed in Qur'an 1400 years ago??

i think a baby can use his little mind to realize this truth.


----------



## brk_nemesis (Feb 3, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> kool, im sure now that u didn't read in Qur'an and don't have knowledge about it.
> is that All what you know about embryo?? the development is only ovum or chromosome!!what after that ??
> review Qur'an (23:12-14)Allah said  "" _We Created man from an extract of clay.then We made him as a notfah *(drop*) in a place of settlement,firmly fixed.Then We made the drop into an alaqah *(Leech*=*suspended thing,and blood clot* )then We made the leech into mudghhah (*chewed substance*)""_
> 
> ...


Once again I dont see the point of this?

All of the above is literally common sense to anyone who had sexual experience and/or a family, way before the ever Qu'ran existed.

Nice try.


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 3, 2010)

maniclion said:


> Well the fact that it was a bastardization of Judaism and Christianity picked up from fragments Muhammad, living with his uncle on a trade route near Mecca, pieced together from meeting Badu tribes on their way to the city to worship at the Kabah (a temple for all Gods of all religions basically)is a start.  If I mock the Tanakh, Talmud, Torah and Bible for it's fairy tales and hypocriticisms then surely I can't believe the cubist version....


brotha ,excuse me for my weak English,i didnt get what u mean


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Feb 3, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Islamophobia? I forget...is that the fear of being blown up? I think I might have that one.


 
 I love it!!  It's a pieceful religion.  Criticize it and they'll blow you to pieces.


----------



## DOMS (Feb 3, 2010)

Roids1 said:


> I love it!!  It's a pieceful religion.  Criticize it and they'll blow you to pieces.



They're still trying to kill that Danish guy who drew a comic of Mohammed.  It wasn't even that bad.  Here it is:







I like this one more:


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 3, 2010)

Oh Oh.....now you're a target for death..


----------



## DOMS (Feb 3, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> Oh Oh.....now you're a target for death..



All I have to say to them is: Come get some.


----------



## brk_nemesis (Feb 3, 2010)

DOMS said:


> They're still trying to kill that Danish guy who drew a comic of Mohammed.  It wasn't even that bad.  Here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ahahahahahahahah.
I would rep you if I hadnt already.

BTW funny i have yet to get a reply to ANY of the points I have made. hmmmm...

very interesting....


----------



## DOMS (Feb 3, 2010)

brk_nemesis said:


> ahahahahahahahah.
> I would rep you if I hadnt already.



It's the thought that counts, man.



brk_nemesis said:


> BTW funny i have yet to get a reply to ANY of the points I have made. hmmmm...
> 
> very interesting....



Are you looking for a Jihad?  Because if you're American, odds are, you already have one on you.


----------



## brk_nemesis (Feb 3, 2010)

DOMS said:


> It's the thought that counts, man.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you looking for a Jihad?  Because if you're American, odds are, you already have one on you.


ahahahahahahaha! I did notice this box lying on the ground near the edge of my yard about 5-6 feet from my driveway. 

I wonder if its an IED.......


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 3, 2010)

brk_nemesis said:


> Once again I dont see the point of this?
> 
> All of the above is literally common sense to anyone who had sexual experience and/or a family, way before the ever Qu'ran existed.
> 
> Nice try.


My man, this not describing the sexual intercourse or experience.
these words describe the different shapes u pass with in your mum uterus.
Was any Human able to see what's inside the uterus in this time??!!!
these steps weren't introduced and proved in the embryology science ,not before they invented the complicated equipments that can make then able to see what's inside the uterus.and as i stated v4 ,Aristole,the founder of the embryology science,was still unable to clear these steps in the 7th century B.C.
So , who told Mohamed these steps in this poor-science time??!!
is He Allah,The Creator??!!
deserve to think 
i hope u got the message brotha 
thankyou!


----------



## DOMS (Feb 3, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> Was any Human able to see what's inside the uterus in this time??!!!



Ever heard of a knife?


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 3, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Ever heard of a knife?


  looooooool    omg..a knife to cut through a pregnant woman,to see the shape of the embryo in this specific time,and suppose it to be 1st month intrauterine.then cutting again in 2nd month ,...wow 
some one told you b4 that u have a Supernatural mind ??
i need some one to use his brain ,not his imaginations ,lol


----------



## brk_nemesis (Feb 3, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> My man, this not describing the sexual intercourse or experience.
> these words describe the different shapes u pass with in your mum uterus.
> Was any Human able to see what's inside the uterus in this time??!!!
> these steps weren't introduced and proved in the embryology science ,not before they invented the complicated equipments that can make then able to see what's inside the uterus.and as i stated v4 ,Aristole,the founder of the embryology science,was still unable to clear these steps in the 7th century B.C.
> ...



Then Explain these "steps."  In Detail.


You said:  



> 1)*Notfah* when translated in English means Sperm or drop ( you can use google translate to make sure). in Arabic it is written as : نـطـفـة
> 2) the place of settlement to which the sperm is fixed,is clear to be the uterus.
> 3)then the sperm with the ovum takes the shape of the leech= عـلـقـة


Anyone who has had a sexual experience, relation, and/or a family before the Qu'ran was written, will know ALL of this,.... its common sense. Science doesn't need to prove this. Hence your argument is null and void.

The sperm is common sense,... men have had sex long before the Qu'ran and knew what sperm were.  The uterus has been known about long before the Qu'ran as well through human dissection. Sex has also been know to produce a  embryo, which then grows and results in pregnancy. THIS IS COMMON SENSE. Just because the words are different or an Arabic doesnt make them any different.

The Egyptians and Greeks had very detailed practices involving human anatomy and the dissection of human beings. They knew a great deal about human anatomy and even dieases long before the Qu'ran was written.  
Maybe you need to read up on your history of ancient human anatomy and dissection practices, and stop trying to turn this into an East vs. West argument. 

So what are you trying to argue? The information you have provided has been around LONG before the Qu'ran was ever written.


----------



## DOMS (Feb 3, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> looooooool    omg..a knife to cut through a pregnant woman,to see the shape of the embryo in this specific time,and suppose it to be 1st month intrauterine.then cutting again in 2nd month ,...wow
> some one told you b4 that u have a Supernatural mind ??
> *i need some one to use his brain* ,not his imaginations ,lol



At this point, I'm convinced you're the Scarecrow.


----------



## DOMS (Feb 3, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> نـطـفـة



And another thing, I don't like it when people scribble on the Internet.


----------



## brk_nemesis (Feb 3, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> looooooool    omg..a knife to cut through a pregnant woman,to see the shape of the embryo in this specific time,and suppose it to be 1st month intrauterine.then cutting again in 2nd month ,...wow
> some one told you b4 that u have a Supernatural mind ??
> i need some one to use his brain ,not his imaginations ,lol


Also I suggest you read this,... you just might learn something.

Embryology Myths in the Koran



BTW... Hippocrates came up with embryonic stages *1,000 years *before the Qu'ran.


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 3, 2010)

brk_nemesis said:


> Then Explain these "steps."  In Detail.
> 
> 
> You said:
> ...




omg..the point still not clear.Man, im not arguing ,if im arguing ,then this professor is lying,i can't write the whole book here.so plz , just get a look over it ,and im sure u will get the point.


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 3, 2010)

DOMS said:


> At this point, I'm convinced you're the Scarecrow.



Scarecrow like the pic u posted to Provoke me??
 i just dont like this way of fighting and provoking each other.im just here to talk to those who like to use their minds., i gave proofs by famous scientists,they r ur scientists,not mine.


----------



## DaMayor (Feb 3, 2010)

Doctormomen spelled backwards is Nemomrotcod.






*Look! There's Allah! Over there!*


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 3, 2010)

brk_nemesis said:


> Also I suggest you read this,... you just might learn something.
> 
> Embryology Myths in the Koran
> 
> ...



well , i Gave u proofs by a famous professor accepted by USA ,and u just gave me an Unknown book with no author at least,no source.
kindly look at the bottom ,u will see this book categorized under " Creative writing"
any baby can write tons of it.


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 3, 2010)

DaMayor said:


> Doctormomen spelled backwards is Nemomrotcod.
> 
> 
> 
> *Look! There's Allah! Over there!*



do u feel this enjoying??


----------



## DaMayor (Feb 3, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> do u feel this enjoying??



Just tryin' to figure you out, brother. 

....and it was a nice picture, don't you think?


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 3, 2010)

DaMayor said:


> Just tryin' to figure you out, brother.
> 
> ....and it was a nice picture, don't you think?


i think the privacy means more


----------



## DaMayor (Feb 3, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> i think the privacy means more



Why would you need privacy? If that's an issue then you shouldn't post your picture on *THE INTERNET*.


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 3, 2010)

He wants a little privacy with you perhaps.


----------



## DaMayor (Feb 3, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> He wants a little privacy with you perhaps.




doctormomensir.


----------



## brk_nemesis (Feb 3, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> well , i Gave u proofs by a famous professor accepted by USA ,and u just gave me an Unknown book with no author at least,no source.
> kindly look at the bottom ,u will see this book categorized under " Creative writing"
> any baby can write tons of it.


 The category is considered creative writing and guess what,... its also written by a professor. Obviously you didn't read it as you would have seen the paper is a collaboration of many sources which are noted in the paper,.... you are obviously blind.  Do you have books about *any* ancient history in Egypt? Once again, the Greeks and Egyptians (Hippocrates being one) discovered all of the things you pronounced above, long before Islam. *What do you not fucking understand about that? 
*
The information can be found anywhere if you research ancient history. Too bad they dont teach this kinda stuff in schools in Egypt. At this point it seems they just give you a Qu'ran and tell you that's your history book.

Once again Hippocrates and Galen had discovered the stages of life long before the Qu'ran was written. Now,... why don't *YOU* go google their names and go do a little research yourself, instead of believe what one fucking professor said.


----------



## bio-chem (Feb 3, 2010)

DOMS said:


> And another thing, I don't like it when people scribble on the Internet.


----------



## maniclion (Feb 4, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> brotha ,excuse me for my weak English,i didnt get what u mean


"In the quiet words of the Virgin Mary... come again?"


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 4, 2010)

brk_nemesis said:


> The category is considered creative writing and guess what,... its also written by a professor. Obviously you didn't read it as you would have seen the paper is a collaboration of many sources which are noted in the paper,.... you are obviously blind.  Do you have books about *any* ancient history in Egypt? Once again, the Greeks and Egyptians (Hippocrates being one) discovered all of the things you pronounced above, long before Islam. *What do you not fucking understand about that?
> *
> The information can be found anywhere if you research ancient history. Too bad they dont teach this kinda stuff in schools in Egypt. At this point it seems they just give you a Qu'ran and tell you that's your history book.
> 
> Once again Hippocrates and Galen had discovered the stages of life long before the Qu'ran was written. Now,... why don't *YOU* go google their names and go do a little research yourself, instead of believe what one fucking professor said.



hahah ,so if you r so sure like this and studied the Egyptian and Greek history,why  dont u  excuse me for ignorant of my history and try to volunteer and give me such ancient Egyptian books that illustrate these steps inside the uterus. 
i'm sure your knowledge about embryology is over Mr Moore. lol
and when a fuckin professor is accepted by a special committee in the USA,so the committee is fuckin also,and the USA evaluation is more fuckin and fuckin,so if u accept this for your country,i have no problem.lol 

You assume some thing,so you need to bring the proof 

See ya!


----------



## brk_nemesis (Feb 4, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> hahah ,so if you r so sure like this and studied the Egyptian and Greek history,why  dont u  excuse me for ignorant of my history and try to volunteer and give me such ancient Egyptian books that illustrate these steps inside the uterus.
> i'm sure your knowledge about embryology is over Mr Moore. lol
> and when a fuckin professor is accepted by a special committee in the USA,so the committee is fuckin also,and the USA evaluation is more fuckin and fuckin,so if u accept this for your country,i have no problem.lol
> 
> ...


I don't give a shit who your professor is or what two-shit committee approved of him. More than likely, YOU misinterpreted what he said.

There are hundreds of books and sources that describe both Hippocrates and Galen's findings on embryology long before the Qu'ran. 
*You are just fucking arrogant and dont want to do any research.*
Here ill be nice and help you out a little:  

Embryology in Qu'ran ( speaks of your Dr. Moore and how teachings were around before and borrowed from greeks(Galen)):

Embryology in the Quran

info on Galen: (sources at bottom)

Islamic Embryology and Galen

Good read on Hippocrates/Galen( Though I doubt you'll read it):

http://www.bium.univ-paris5.fr/amn/Hippo2.pdf


All of these are sourced and referenced information and took me literally 5 minutes to find, which shows how *lazy* you are, and how easy it is to find on the internet. The Qu'ran may show  the stages of early life, but the same teachings have been around long before it. Im sorry if they happen to teach this stuff in our schools and colleges over here, but forgot to do so over there.

Have a nice *fuckin'* day.


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 4, 2010)

brk_nemesis said:


> I don't give a shit who your professor is or what two-shit committee approved of him. More than likely, YOU misinterpreted what he said.
> 
> There are hundreds of books and sources that describe both Hippocrates and Galen's findings on embryology long before the Qu'ran.
> *You are just fucking arrogant and dont want to do any research.*
> ...



i read most of it,Unfortunately ,most of them r not accurate in comparison to the Qur'anic description.and most of them based on misunderstanding of the meaning of the Arabic vocabulary.as the Arabic language is so much more rich than the English ,so some Arabic words have no exact matcher in English,and that's why they build their wrong understanding upon it.
 for example ..regarding to Galen suggestions,he didnt mentioned the two other meaning of the alaqah.
and regarding to that prophet Mohamed copied this trough his companion ,he didnt gave any proof on this,just made a suggestion.how easy is it make a suggestions .
the former description  just said ,semen ,then filled with blood then a flesh.but the Qur'anic was so accurate to describe the shapes.wow what a greatest creator.
that was only about embryo,..we still havn't mentioned those signs of mountains,origin of the universe,cerebrum,seas and rivers ,internal waves,clouds and Rain......etc.
try to seek more creative writing over there.


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 4, 2010)

A Great  trusted and known-source " not creative..lol " site to learn something in your life 

Dr. Zaghloul El-Naggar


----------



## brk_nemesis (Feb 5, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> i read most of it,Unfortunately ,most of them r not accurate in comparison to the Qur'anic description.and most of them based on misunderstanding of the meaning of the Arabic vocabulary.as the Arabic language is so much more rich than the English ,so some Arabic words have no exact matcher in English,and that's why they build their wrong understanding upon it.
> for example ..regarding to Galen suggestions,he didnt mentioned the two other meaning of the alaqah.
> and regarding to that prophet Mohamed copied this trough his companion ,he didnt gave any proof on this,just made a suggestion.how easy is it make a suggestions .
> the former description  just said ,semen ,then filled with blood then a flesh.but the Qur'anic was so accurate to describe the shapes.wow what a greatest creator.
> ...


Creative writings? ha! The sources are all referenced at the bottom from authors that have just as many degrees as your buddy Dr. Moore.

The proof all is there that Hippocrates and Galen came up with the concepts of Embryology long before the Qu'ran.  You can say any bullshit all you want about "the translations are wrong" and it doesnt make any difference. I dont give a fuck how "pretty" the Arabic language is. That is not the argument. The question is, "was the Quran the first place that the early stages of life (embryology)was labeled?" No, it wasn't. Point is the belief was there long before the Qu'ran existed regardless if they were "copied over" to the Qu'ran or not. If your faith and religion obstructs you from looking at DOCUMENTED HISTORY,.. then thats your fault, not mine.

Find me creditable sources or references that state and prove the Qu'ran was the first to come up with these stages of life, and disproves that Hippocrates and Galen did none of the such. You can't.



> still havn't mentioned those signs of mountains,origin of the universe,cerebrum,seas and rivers ,internal waves,clouds and Rain......etc.


I care about this why? This has nothing to do with the argument.

And dont post up some Islamic academy site that is obviously has the potential to be bias due to the fact it is* Islamic* for god's sake. You do see me posting up any Christian academy sites?

I didnt think so.


----------



## bio-chem (Feb 5, 2010)

brk_nemesis said:


> I don't give a shit who your professor is or what two-shit committee approved of him. More than likely, YOU misinterpreted what he said.
> 
> There are hundreds of books and sources that describe both Hippocrates and Galen's findings on embryology long before the Qu'ran.
> *You are just fucking arrogant and dont want to do any research.*
> ...



+1 for owning


----------



## KelJu (Feb 5, 2010)

brk_nemesis said:


> Creative writings? ha! The sources are all referenced at the bottom from authors that have just as many degrees as your buddy Dr. Moore.
> 
> The proof all is there that Hippocrates and Galen came up with the concepts of Embryology long before the Qu'ran.  You can say any bullshit all you want about "the translations are wrong" and it doesnt make any difference. I dont give a fuck how "pretty" the Arabic language is. That is not the argument. The question is, "was the Quran the first place that the early stages of life (embryology)was labeled?" No, it wasn't. Point is the belief was there long before the Qu'ran existed regardless if they were "copied over" to the Qu'ran or not. If your faith and religion obstructs you from looking at DOCUMENTED HISTORY,.. then thats your fault, not mine.
> 
> ...





Dude, just give up, you are too smart for this. The person you are arguing with is either a moron or a troll. In any event, you are wasting your time.


----------



## brk_nemesis (Feb 5, 2010)

yup I ain't wasting my time anymore bro. I've been at campus all day and in between classes it gets boring as hell if you have no studying to do or papers to write, so... 

Everyone remember.......  Jesus loves you!


----------



## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)

brk_nemesis said:


> yup I ain't wasting my time anymore bro. I've been at campus all day and in between classes it gets boring as hell if you have no studying to do or papers to write, so...
> 
> Everyone remember.......  Jesus loves you!



It's a good thing you're giving up.  If you'd kept at it, you would've wound up with getting post wrapped in a explosive vest.

I'm just sayin'...


----------



## maniclion (Feb 5, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> A Great  trusted and known-source " not creative..lol " site to learn something in your life
> 
> Dr. Zaghloul El-Naggar



Admit you are wrong and I'll tell you where you can find Salman Rushdie....


----------



## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)




----------



## doctormomen (Feb 5, 2010)

Well , i  can See You Don't Accept your scientists,Nor Mine.
You just copied Galen in your brain..and ok , i have no problem , but before you Go let me teach you some thing You missed to look for about Your supernatural Galen;
this from wikipedia i doubt that you might accept it though )

(  *Aelius Galenus* or *Claudius Galenus* (September AD 129 ??? 199/217; Greek: Γαληνός, _Galēnos_), better known as *Galen of Pergamum* (modern-day Bergama, Turkey), was a prominent Roman physician and philosopher of Greek origin,[1] and probably the most accomplished medical researcher of the Roman period. His theories dominated and influenced Western medical science for well over a millennium. *His account of medical anatomy was based on monkeys as human dissection was not permitted in his time*, but it was unsurpassed until the printed description and illustrations of human dissections by Andreas Vesalius in 1543.[2] Galen's account of the activities of the heart, arteries and veins endured until William Harvey established that the blood circulates with the heart acting as a pump in 1628.[3] In the 19th century, student physicians would still read Galen to learn some concepts. Galen developed many nerve ligation experiments that supported the theory, which is still believed today, that the brain controls all the motions of the muscles by means of the cranial and peripheral nervous systems.[4] Galen wrote a small work called "That the Best Physician is also a Philosopher"[5], and he saw himself as being both, which meant *grounding medical practice in theoretically sound knowledge or "philosophy" *as it was called in his time. Galen was very interested in the dispute between Rationalist and Empiricist medical sects,[6] and his use of direct observation, dissection and vivisection in medical training and as a way to ground medical practice can be understood as considering both of those perspectives and constructing a more complex and nuanced middle ground that avoided problems with each position)

The Qur'an Tells about Human,and the Modern science proved this with the complicated x-ray equipments,And You just dreaming with some one was  working on Monkeys. ,as well as being more theoretically "philosopher" than practically.

so if you like to accept to be like a Monkey in your Development ,i have no any problem with that ,sir

See ya ​


----------



## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> See ya IN HELL!!!


----------



## bio-chem (Feb 5, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> Well , i  can See You Don't Accept your scientists,Nor Mine.
> You just copied Galen in your brain..and ok , i have no problem , but before you Go let me teach you some thing You missed to look for about Your supernatural Galen;
> this from wikipedia i doubt that you might accept it though )
> 
> ...


wow, you really have lost it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 5, 2010)

maniclion said:


> Admit you are wrong and I'll tell you where you can find Salman Rushdie....



I'm not goin to admit that Im Right or Wrong. you can search ,read here and there ,You got a brain,You can easily make it to differentiate between the right and the wrong.


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 5, 2010)

As you can see ,DOMS tried to put a pic to assume that i posted it.
repeat this, Doms :" tricks is the way of the loser "


----------



## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> As you can see ,DOMS tried to put a pic to assume that i posted it.
> repeat this, Doms :" tricks is the way of the loser "


Trick?  Not everyone on the Internet is as "intelligent" as you.


----------



## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)

doctormomen said:
			
		

> i dont care to your hacks or tricks  ,as long as, you can't cope up with the scientific talk.
> working on tricks just reveal one truth ..that you are weak and you lose.
> see ya



You had to PM this to me?  You couldn't just post it here?

Scientific talk?  You're shitting me...?

Here's a scientific fact for you:  if you ignite a large explosive device in a densely populated area with families with no military presence, you're going to kill women and children; and not soldiers.


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 5, 2010)

DOMS said:


> You had to PM this to me?  You couldn't just post it here?
> 
> Scientific talk?  You're shitting me...?
> 
> Here's a scientific fact for you:  if you ignite a large explosive device in a densely populated area with families with no military presence, you're going to kill women and children; and not soldiers.



Again we got out from the main talk about science ,to pumps and terrorism,which insist again that you no longer able to refute the proofs.
Don Not try to deceive some one ,coz this assure your weakness


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 5, 2010)

Regarding to explosions and kiling innocent people... watch what your soldiers tell about your Great wars and mess in the whole world 
YouTube - AMAZING SPEECH BY WAR VETERAN


----------



## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> Again we got out from the main talk about science ,to pumps and terrorism,which insist again that you no longer able to refute the proofs.
> Don Not try to deceive some one ,coz this assure your weakness



I haven't tried to talk about the science of Islam.  In addition to my lack of interest in discussing the chemistry of Islam, others already have done it and you're simply ignoring them.

You seem a bit cranky...


----------



## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> Regarding to explosions and kiling innocent people... watch what your soldiers tell about your Great wars and mess in the whole world
> YouTube - AMAZING SPEECH BY WAR VETERAN



And for every single video of that crap, I can produce countless others to the contrary.  Whoopdie-fucking-doo.


----------



## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)

Plus there's shit like this:






YouTube Video


----------



## maniclion (Feb 5, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> I'm not goin to admit that Im Right or Wrong. you can search ,read here and there ,You got a brain,You can easily make it to differentiate between the right and the wrong.



With all the rich history and ingenuity attributed to Arab and Muslims well before their time why are you stuck on this one thing that may or may not be true....

Here's a partial list of some great discoveries and inventions:

1 The story goes that an Arab named Khalid was tending his goats in the Kaffa region of southern Ethiopia, when he noticed his animals became livelier after eating a certain berry. He boiled the berries to make the first coffee. Certainly the first record of the drink is of beans exported from Ethiopia to Yemen where Sufis drank it to stay awake all night to pray on special occasions. By the late 15th century it had arrived in Mecca and Turkey from where it made its way to Venice in 1645. It was brought to England in 1650 by a Turk named Pasqua Rosee who opened the first coffee house in Lombard Street in the City of London. The Arabic qahwa became the Turkish kahve then the Italian caffé and then English coffee.
2 The ancient Greeks thought our eyes emitted rays, like a laser, which enabled us to see. The first person to realise that light enters the eye, rather than leaving it, was the 10th-century Muslim mathematician, astronomer and physicist Ibn al-Haitham. He invented the first pin-hole camera after noticing the way light came through a hole in window shutters. The smaller the hole, the better the picture, he worked out, and set up the first Camera Obscura (from the Arab word qamara for a dark or private room). He is also credited with being the first man to shift physics from a philosophical activity to an experimental one.
3 A form of chess was played in ancient India but the game was developed into the form we know it today in Persia. From there it spread westward to Europe - where it was introduced by the Moors in Spain in the 10th century - and eastward as far as Japan. The word rook comes from the Persian rukh, which means chariot.
4 A thousand years before the Wright brothers a Muslim poet, astronomer, musician and engineer named Abbas ibn Firnas made several attempts to construct a flying machine. In 852 he jumped from the minaret of the Grand Mosque in Cordoba using a loose cloak stiffened with wooden struts. He hoped to glide like a bird. He didn't. But the cloak slowed his fall, creating what is thought to be the first parachute, and leaving him with only minor injuries. In 875, aged 70, having perfected a machine of silk and eagles' feathers he tried again, jumping from a mountain. He flew to a significant height and stayed aloft for ten minutes but crashed on landing - concluding, correctly, that it was because he had not given his device a tail so it would stall on landing. Baghdad international airport and a crater on the Moon are named after him.
5 Washing and bathing are religious requirements for Muslims, which is perhaps why they perfected the recipe for soap which we still use today. The ancient Egyptians had soap of a kind, as did the Romans who used it more as a pomade. But it was the Arabs who combined vegetable oils with sodium hydroxide and aromatics such as thyme oil. One of the Crusaders' most striking characteristics, to Arab nostrils, was that they did not wash. Shampoo was introduced to England by a Muslim who opened Mahomed's Indian Vapour Baths on Brighton seafront in 1759 and was appointed Shampooing Surgeon to Kings George IV and William IV.
6 Distillation, the means of separating liquids through differences in their boiling points, was invented around the year 800 by Islam's foremost scientist, Jabir ibn Hayyan, who transformed alchemy into chemistry, inventing many of the basic processes and apparatus still in use today - liquefaction, crystallisation, distillation, purification, oxidisation, evaporation and filtration. As well as discovering sulphuric and nitric acid, he invented the alembic still, giving the world intense rosewater and other perfumes and alcoholic spirits (although drinking them is haram, or forbidden, in Islam). Ibn Hayyan emphasised systematic experimentation and was the founder of modern chemistry.
7 The crank-shaft is a device which translates rotary into linear motion and is central to much of the machinery in the modern world, not least the internal combustion engine. One of the most important mechanical inventions in the history of humankind, it was created by an ingenious Muslim engineer called al-Jazari to raise water for irrigation. His 1206 Book of Knowledge of Ingenious Mechanical Devices shows he also invented or refined the use of valves and pistons, devised some of the first mechanical clocks driven by water and weights, and was the father of robotics. Among his 50 other inventions was the combination lock.
8 Quilting is a method of sewing or tying two layers of cloth with a layer of insulating material in between. It is not clear whether it was invented in the Muslim world or whether it was imported there from India or China. But it certainly came to the West via the Crusaders. They saw it used by Saracen warriors, who wore straw- filled quilted canvas shirts instead of armour. As well as a form of protection, it proved an effective guard against the chafing of the Crusaders' metal armour and was an effective form of insulation - so much so that it became a cottage industry back home in colder climates such as Britain and Holland.
9 The pointed arch so characteristic of Europe's Gothic cathedrals was an invention borrowed from Islamic architecture. It was much stronger than the rounded arch used by the Romans and Normans, thus allowing the building of bigger, higher, more complex and grander buildings. Other borrowings from Muslim genius included ribbed vaulting, rose windows and dome-building techniques. Europe's castles were also adapted to copy the Islamic world's - with arrow slits, battlements, a barbican and parapets. Square towers and keeps gave way to more easily defended round ones. Henry V's castle architect was a Muslim.
10 Many modern surgical instruments are of exactly the same design as those devised in the 10th century by a Muslim surgeon called al- Zahrawi. His scalpels, bone saws, forceps, fine scissors for eye surgery and many of the 200 instruments he devised are recognisable to a modern surgeon. It was he who discovered that catgut used for internal stitches dissolves away naturally (a discovery he made when his monkey ate his lute strings) and that it can be also used to make medicine capsules. In the 13th century, another Muslim medic named Ibn Nafis described the circulation of the blood, 300 years before William Harvey discovered it. Muslims doctors also invented anaesthetics of opium and alcohol mixes and developed hollow needles to suck cataracts from eyes in a technique still used today.
11 The windmill was invented in 634 for a Persian caliph and was used to grind corn and draw up water for irrigation. In the vast deserts of Arabia, when the seasonal streams ran dry, the only source of power was the wind which blew steadily from one direction for months. Mills had six or 12 sails covered in fabric or palm leaves. It was 500 years before the first windmill was seen in Europe.
12 The technique of inoculation was not invented by Jenner and Pasteur but was devised in the Muslim world and brought to Europe from Turkey by the wife of the English ambassador to Istanbul in 1724. Children in Turkey were vaccinated with cowpox to fight the deadly smallpox at least 50 years before the West discovered it.
13 The fountain pen was invented for the Sultan of Egypt in 953 after he demanded a pen which would not stain his hands or clothes. It held ink in a reservoir and, as with modern pens, fed ink to the nib by a combination of gravity and capillary action.
14 The system of numbering in use all round the world is probably Indian in origin but the style of the numerals is Arabic and first appears in print in the work of the Muslim mathematicians al- Khwarizmi and al-Kindi around 825. Algebra was named after al- Khwarizmi's book, Al-Jabr wa-al-Muqabilah, much of whose contents are still in use. The work of Muslim maths scholars was imported into Europe 300 years later by the Italian mathematician Fibonacci. Algorithms and much of the theory of trigonometry came from the Muslim world. And Al-Kindi's discovery of frequency analysis rendered all the codes of the ancient world soluble and created the basis of modern cryptology.
15 Ali ibn Nafi, known by his nickname of Ziryab (Blackbird) came from Iraq to Cordoba in the 9th century and brought with him the concept of the three-course meal - soup, followed by fish or meat, then fruit and nuts. He also introduced crystal glasses (which had been invented after experiments with rock crystal by Abbas ibn Firnas - see No 4).
16 Carpets were regarded as part of Paradise by medieval Muslims, thanks to their advanced weaving techniques, new tinctures from Islamic chemistry and highly developed sense of pattern and arabesque which were the basis of Islam's non-representational art. In contrast, Europe's floors were distinctly earthly, not to say earthy, until Arabian and Persian carpets were introduced. In England, as Erasmus recorded, floors were "covered in rushes, occasionally renewed, but so imperfectly that the bottom layer is left undisturbed, sometimes for 20 years, harbouring expectoration, vomiting, the leakage of dogs and men, ale droppings, scraps of fish, and other abominations not fit to be mentioned". Carpets, unsurprisingly, caught on quickly.
17 The modern cheque comes from the Arabic saqq, a written vow to pay for goods when they were delivered, to avoid money having to be transported across dangerous terrain. In the 9th century, a Muslim businessman could cash a cheque in China drawn on his bank in Baghdad.
18 By the 9th century, many Muslim scholars took it for granted that the Earth was a sphere. The proof, said astronomer Ibn Hazm, "is that the Sun is always vertical to a particular spot on Earth". It was 500 years before that realisation dawned on Galileo. The calculations of Muslim astronomers were so accurate that in the 9th century they reckoned the Earth's circumference to be 40,253.4km - less than 200km out. The scholar al-Idrisi took a globe depicting the world to the court of King Roger of Sicily in 1139.
19 Though the Chinese invented saltpetre gunpowder, and used it in their fireworks, it was the Arabs who worked out that it could be purified using potassium nitrate for military use. Muslim incendiary devices terrified the Crusaders. By the 15th century they had invented both a rocket, which they called a "self-moving and combusting egg", and a torpedo - a self-propelled pear-shaped bomb with a spear at the front which impaled itself in enemy ships and then blew up.
20 Medieval Europe had kitchen and herb gardens, but it was the Arabs who developed the idea of the garden as a place of beauty and meditation. The first royal pleasure gardens in Europe were opened in 11th-century Muslim Spain. Flowers which originated in Muslim gardens include the carnation and the tulip.
"1001 Inventions: Discover the Muslim Heritage in Our World" is a new exhibition which began a nationwide tour this week. It is currently at the Science Museum in Manchester. For more information, go to Discover The Muslim Heritage In Our World | 1001 Inventions.


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 5, 2010)

if we talking about the real terrorism ,here is the way to go 
Iraq Veterans Against the War

american military feels shame about the war:YouTube - AMAZING SPEECH BY WAR VETERAN


----------



## theCaptn' (Feb 5, 2010)

The Capt's Fishsticks are always popular with the moozlyms


----------



## bio-chem (Feb 5, 2010)

DOMS are you really getting sucked into this crap?


----------



## FMJ (Feb 5, 2010)

CaptRichArund said:


> The Capt's Fishsticks are always popular with the moozlyms


 

And really.. isn't that what it's all about?


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 5, 2010)

maniclion said:


> With all the rich history and ingenuity attributed to Arab and Muslims well before their time why are you stuck on this one thing that may or may not be true....
> 
> Here's a partial list of some great discoveries and inventions:
> 
> ...



thanks brotha,im proud of my arabian science and history,which all happened after prophet Mohamed was chosen to  bring us from the darkness to the light, from worshiping the rocks in the desert to worship one God,from killing each other, to love one another.
thank you man. i really feel that you are my best won in this conversation, you adhered to the principles of respecting the other and talked in civilized way.


----------



## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> DOMS are you really getting sucked into this crap?



Not really, I just want to post funny and degrading pictures of the mooslims.


----------



## theCaptn' (Feb 5, 2010)

FMJ said:


> And really.. isn't that what it's all about?


 
well, all the girls on muslima dot com think so


----------



## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)




----------



## maniclion (Feb 5, 2010)

Doc, can I call you Doc?  Your religion is suffering from what we here in the US feel Christianity is doing to us, stifling understanding of god or allah's creation....there was a time when the Muslim world embraced the sciences right alongside worship, they were the greatest compliment to Allah....

"The Quran, re-currently, urges the faithful to, think, ponder, reflect and acquire knowledge that would bring them closer to God and to His creation.
The Quran uses repetition in order to imbed certain key concepts in the consciousness of its listeners. Allah (God) and Rab (the Sustainer) are repeated 2,800 and 950 times respectively in the sacred text; Ilm (knowledge) comes third with 750 mentions.
The Prophet (pbuh) commanded knowledge upon all Muslims, and urged them to seek knowledge as far they could reach, and also to seek it at all times."


----------



## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)




----------



## bio-chem (Feb 5, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Not really, I just want to post funny and degrading pictures of the mooslims.



then by all means continue


----------



## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)

maniclion said:


> Your religion is suffering from what we here in the US feel Christianity is doing to us, stifling understanding of god or allah's creation



Sure.  Yeah.  Right. The absolute same. Fucking perfectly.

A woman getting paid 5% less than a man is just like getting stoned to death. The absolute same. Fucking perfectly.


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 5, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> DOMS are you really getting sucked into this crap?


I've been there....it's actually fun to do.


----------



## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> then by all means continue



Yes sir!


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 5, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> thanks brotha,im proud of my arabian science and history,which all happened after prophet Mohamed was chosen to  bring us from the darkness to the light, from worshiping the rocks in the desert to worship one God,from killing each other, to love one another.
> thank you man. i really feel that you are my best won in this conversation, you adhered to the principles of respecting the other and talked in civilized way.


Manic did what I was waiting for you to do, and that's bring out and show the good side of your religion.
The stuff you talk and post about has me confused.


----------



## maniclion (Feb 5, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Sure.  Yeah.  Right. The absolute same. Fucking perfectly.
> 
> A woman getting paid 5% less than a man is just like getting stoned to death. The absolute same. Fucking perfectly.



I'm talking science....


----------



## FMJ (Feb 5, 2010)

DOMS said:


>


 

See? That's just funny.. 'cause it's true. Damn juice.


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## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)

Okay, I was looking for derogatory pictures of Muslims, but I found this.  Which I think is pretty freakin' ballsy (text not with standing).


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## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)

maniclion said:


> I'm talking science....



Okay, I can go for that bit.


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## doctormomen (Feb 5, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Not really, I just want to post funny and degrading pictures of the mooslims.


  yeah any thing is ok ,as long as, it's away from the science and the main talk.so Mockery and irony of the others is allowed ,and this is the best civilization i noticed in Doms really.


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## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)

doctormomen said:


>


..........


----------



## doctormomen (Feb 5, 2010)

maniclion said:


> Doc, can I call you Doc?  Your religion is suffering from what we here in the US feel Christianity is doing to us, stifling understanding of god or allah's creation....there was a time when the Muslim world embraced the sciences right alongside worship, they were the greatest compliment to Allah....
> 
> "The Quran, re-currently, urges the faithful to, think, ponder, reflect and acquire knowledge that would bring them closer to God and to His creation.
> The Quran uses repetition in order to imbed certain key concepts in the consciousness of its listeners. Allah (God) and Rab (the Sustainer) are repeated 2,800 and 950 times respectively in the sacred text; Ilm (knowledge) comes third with 750 mentions.
> The Prophet (pbuh) commanded knowledge upon all Muslims, and urged them to seek knowledge as far they could reach, and also to seek it at all times."


yes man,you can call me Doc,im  getting my degree in dentistry next July.thnx for your opinion and if you like to cope up with me in messenger or such,im up to this. im sure we r gonna discuss this points in the best way,so we can understand each other better and better,coz the guys here just got me in a fight.


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## min0 lee (Feb 5, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> yes man,you can call me Doc,im  getting my degree in dentistry next July.thnx for your opinion and if you like to cope up with me in messenger or such,im up to this. im sure we r gonna discuss this points in the best way,so we can understand each other better and better,coz the guys here just got me in a fight.


Are you like asking him out for a date?
I must admit I thought the Muslims were against the anal activities among other men.

Manic has a new friend.


----------



## DaMayor (Feb 5, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> Are you like asking him out for a date?
> I must admit I thought the Muslims were against the anal activities among other men.
> 
> Manic has a new friend.



_Spokesman for all of Christianity _is a sexy title.....Chics....and apparently Docs....dig it.


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## doctormomen (Feb 5, 2010)

min0 lee said:


> Are you like asking him out for a date?
> I must admit I thought the Muslims were against the anal activities among other men.
> 
> Manic has a new friend.



How silly you are.


----------



## bio-chem (Feb 5, 2010)

maniclion said:


> I'm talking science....



cool I'm a fan of science and all. what the hell have they done recently? not a damn thing. scientific advances are not happening in muslim countries right now.


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## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> cool I'm a fan of science and all. what the hell have they done recently? not a damn thing. scientific advances are not happening in muslim countries right now.



I don't believe that anything scientific has come out of the Middle East since the 800s or so.


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## doctormomen (Feb 5, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> cool I'm a fan of science and all. what the hell have they done recently? not a damn thing. scientific advances are not happening in muslim countries right now.





DOMS said:


> I don't believe that anything scientific has come out of the Middle East since the 800s or so.



Ask your president,why he chose the Egyptian scientist ,Prof.Ahmed Zowail in His Scientific Advisory Committee.He will probably answer you


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## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> Ask your president,why he chose the Egyptian scientist ,Prof.Ahmed Zowail in His Scientific Advisory Committee.He will probably answer you



Just because Obama chose to hire a Egyptian into his administration (yay...affirmative action) doesn't mean that jack shit has come out of the Middle East in over 1800 years.

Your logic sucks.


----------



## DOMS (Feb 5, 2010)

Suddenly, this very relevant:


----------



## KelJu (Feb 5, 2010)

DOMS said:


>







That is the hardest I have laughed in a long time. 

Omfg that shit is funny!


----------



## brk_nemesis (Feb 5, 2010)

oh man... thread got another page already... aha!

Funny,.... the one person who was commenting my links were not creditable sources, ends up posting from Wikipedia. Oh the irony.



Ah well,...... how bout some stuff to cheer everyone up?

"Shoot them fuckers!"






YouTube Video


----------



## Hoglander (Feb 5, 2010)

Bosom bombers: Women have explosive breast implants


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## DOMS (Feb 6, 2010)

Hoglander said:


> Bosom bombers: Women have explosive breast implants








I can see why she volunteered to be a boob-job suicide bomber.

Also, maybe burkas aren't that bad.


----------



## DOMS (Feb 6, 2010)

KelJu said:


> That is the hardest I have laughed in a long time.
> 
> Omfg that shit is funny!



I aim to please.


----------



## bandaidwoman (Feb 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> I don't believe that anything scientific has come out of the Middle East since the 800s or so.



I hate to break this to you but a majority of department heads at most American medical schools ( they have to have incredible backgrounds in science and research) are mostly foreigners, quite a few of them muslim or middle eastern.  Most Americans no longer have the "scientific" know how to be leaders in the medical research area.  We need to thank Indians, Asians and Middle easterners

 I was privliged to have worked with this guy when he was at emory
Kamal F. Badr, M.D., ASCI, AAP

Adjunct Professor of Medicine, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD, USA
fellowship in nephrology at the Brigham and Women’s and Children’s Hospitals, Harvard Medical School. He joined the faculty at Vanderbilt University as assistant and then associate professor (1986 to 1992). Then he moved to Emory University as professor of medicine, nephrology section chief at the Atlanta VA Hospital, and director of the Center for Glomerulonephritis (1992 to 2000). . He was elected to the American Society for Clinical Investigation in 1991 and the Association of American Physicians in 2001. Dr. Badr received NIH and other grant support from 1986 to 2000 and holds three U.S. patents. His main interests are in renal microcirculatory physiology, glomerular inflammation, and renal vascular disease. He has published 85 original manuscripts, 42 solicited papers and reviews, and 27 book chapters.


Anyway, start reading medical journals and look at the primary authors, many  are no longer americans, quite a few of them are from the Middle East.  *You can be reassured that much of the ground breaking medical research in this country rides on the backs  of foreigners, many of whom are from the Middle East *.  My short stint as a chemist I met with brillant male and female chemists from Iran, Turkey, Lebanaon and Syria.


Here at Emory University a majority of the avante garde neurosurgeons are from the Middle East.

As a chemist, I'll tell you that some of the best petroleum chemistry breakthroughs are not surprisingly, being done by middle eastern chemists.


----------



## DOMS (Feb 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> I hate to break this to you



I doubt this.  When the gays in Atlanta came up, you implied that gays are more likely to be white than black.  When the topic of Muslims came up, you implied that they were better than Christians. And now that science has come up in regards to Egyptians, you're implying that foreigners do more science; and in the US no less.

That's very passive aggressive of you.  It's also complete and utter bullshit.

In a city where 68% of the population is black, it's a statistical improbably that there are more white gays than black.  Unless you're implying that homosexuality is a matter of race.  Long ago, in a discussion about race and crime, he tried your damnedest to paints whites in a as poor a light as you could.

Granted, the topic of Christianity vs. Islam can largely be relegated to opinion, but it's a FACT that the religious group most responsible for terrorism is the Islamic faith.  From the Middle East, to Europe, and even to the Philippines.

As for where science comes from: the original point was not that most scientific discoveries in modern times have come from the US.  It was that they're not coming from the Middle East.  What you're trying to do is called "spin."  And, just for fun, I went to a random site that covers science.  I checked the leading recent discoveries.  They're mostly from the US and western countries.  Also, just because someone has a foriegn sounding name doesn't mean they're not American (Barack Hussein Obama, duh?).  Even if they aren't originally from America, I'm expected to believe that they got an education in another country and then came here and went right to the top?

*Short version*: you've shown how you adore Muslims (and not Christians) and anything not USA.  I happen to be both American and Christian.  If there's one thing that I don't tolerate anymore, it's dumping on some aspect of who I am.

*Very short version*:


----------



## GearsMcGilf (Feb 6, 2010)

brk_nemesis said:


> oh man... thread got another page already... aha!
> 
> Funny,.... the one person who was commenting my links were not creditable sources, ends up posting from Wikipedia. Oh the irony.
> 
> ...


 
Good stuff.  But, I was all set to see some dead muslims.  Kinda disappointing.


----------



## bio-chem (Feb 6, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> Ask your president,why he chose the Egyptian scientist ,Prof.Ahmed Zowail in His Scientific Advisory Committee.He will probably answer you



moving from Egypt to the United States to complete his PhD at the University of Pennsylvania with advisor Dr. Robin Hochstrasser. He completed a post-doctoral fellowship at the University of California, Berkeley.

Egypt didn't due shit. read my post. i said science coming out of muslim countries. this man was educated here in the united states. he didn't get his phd in a muslim country. successful muslims on the world stage get their education outside of their muslim homelands. why is that? because muslim countries don't provide anything for educational opportunities. for that you have to come to the good old US of A

and I'm proud to be an American. im sure ahmed zowail is as well.


----------



## maniclion (Feb 6, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> yes man,you can call me Doc,im  getting my degree in *dentistry* next July.thnx for your opinion and if you like to cope up with me in messenger or such,im up to this. im sure we r gonna discuss this points in the best way,so we can understand each other better and better,coz the guys here just got me in a fight.



Oh, sorry I can't befriend you, you are Muslim and a dentist thats like a trillion times more likely you will commit suicide, I can't handle a burden like that.....


----------



## KelJu (Feb 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> I hate to break this to you but a majority of department heads at most American medical schools ( they have to have incredible backgrounds in science and research) are mostly foreigners, quite a few of them muslim or middle eastern.  Most Americans no longer have the "scientific" know how to be leaders in the medical research area.  We need to thank Indians, Asians and Middle easterners
> 
> I was privliged to have worked with this guy when he was at emory
> Kamal F. Badr, M.D., ASCI, AAP
> ...



Where was Kamal F. Badr educated? I looked it up, and I couldn't find it amongst the ridiculous amount of credentials and publications, which is a good thing. 

Anywho, I just typed out a page of crap and deleted it all after realizing it is a waste of time. Nobody here is really listening, and almost everyone in this thread is completely full of their own brand of shit and personal biases anyway. 


The short version goes like this. Religion doesn't produce science. Science happens despite religion. Anyone that tries to use science to back their spiritual beliefs lose all credibility, and will be flamed relentlessly. 

Islam is crap. Muslim scientist are achieving great things because they were blessed with determination and a beautiful mind that can sort through data and see eloquent solutions to problems. They are not archiving great things because they are Muslim. 

The reason science gets shit done is because you have to check your baggage at the door. In the lab, NOTHING FUCKING MATTERS BUT THE DATA!!!

Allah, Buddha, Jesus Christ... none of them factor into an equation.


----------



## KelJu (Feb 6, 2010)

I would also like to add that anytime I see people trying to blend science and religion, I want to punch them in the fucking face. 


Fuck me in the ass, I need a joint.


----------



## DOMS (Feb 6, 2010)

KelJu said:


> I would also like to add that anytime I see people trying to blend science and religion, I want to punch them in the fucking face.



Including the religious-backed hospitals in which they not only heal the sick for research the future?  Yeah, I could see that...


----------



## DOMS (Feb 6, 2010)

KelJu said:


> The reason science gets shit done is because you have to check your baggage at the door. In the lab, NOTHING FUCKING MATTERS BUT THE DATA!!!



This is also not entirely true.  Witness the pro-global warming yutzes that fixed the data.  And that's only one example.


----------



## KelJu (Feb 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Including the religious-backed hospitals in which they not only heal the sick for research the future?  Yeah, I could see that...



I don't understand what you are trying to imply? I am talking about people trying use science to illustrate why their immaterial ideas and beliefs are somehow substantiated by science or scientist.   

Where funding comes from is irrelevant. Socialist countries fund science. Dictatorships fund science. China isn't all that far behind the US in budgeting for scientific research. That doesn't mean communism and science are related, and it sure as hell doesn't mean whoever funds science the most are right, and everyone else is wrong. 




DOMS said:


> This is also not entirely true.  Witness the pro-global warming yutzes that fixed the data.  And that's only one example.



Aw Jesus Christ, dude. I never said it was perfect. If humans have a hand in something, then it can't be perfect. If you have an agenda, you have failed before you ever did the first experiment.


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## brk_nemesis (Feb 6, 2010)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to KelJu again.


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## maniclion (Feb 7, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Where was Kamal F. Badr educated? I looked it up, and I couldn't find it amongst the ridiculous amount of credentials and publications, which is a good thing.
> 
> Anywho, I just typed out a page of crap and deleted it all after realizing it is a waste of time. Nobody here is really listening, and almost everyone in this thread is completely full of their own brand of shit and personal biases anyway.
> 
> ...


I disagree, many of these religious scientists could be motivated by a belief that gaining knowledge will help man become closer to their god, gods, creator, Grand Pubbah or whatever


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## KelJu (Feb 7, 2010)

maniclion said:


> I disagree, many of these religious scientists could be motivated by a belief that gaining knowledge will help man become closer to their god, gods, creator, Grand Pubbah or whatever



So what about the atheist scientist? Are they motivated to see knowledge by their belief in nothing?


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## DOMS (Feb 7, 2010)

KelJu said:


> I don't understand what you are trying to imply? I am talking about people trying use science to illustrate why their immaterial ideas and beliefs are somehow substantiated by science or scientist.



Oh, so the only reason religious people would ever pursue a scientific endeavor is to prove there is a god?

Bullshit.  Absolute fucking bullshit.

Many religious people get interested in science because they see the universe as God's work and want to know more about it.



KelJu said:


> Where funding comes from is irrelevant. Socialist countries fund science. Dictatorships fund science. China isn't all that far behind the US in budgeting for scientific research. That doesn't mean communism and science are related, and it sure as hell doesn't mean whoever funds science the most are right, and everyone else is wrong.



I wasn't talking about just funding.

Oh, and while you're on your shit-on-religion-because-I'm-an-theist kick, I'd like to point out that the biggest location of killing in the world right now, Sub-Saharan Africa, is done primarily by atheists.  Not having religion doesn't make you a good person.




KelJu said:


> Aw Jesus Christ, dude. I never said it was perfect. If humans have a hand in something, then it can't be perfect. If you have an agenda, you have failed before you ever did the first experiment.



Science in this day and age is pathetic compared to what it used to be.  These days it's largely motivated by money or political concerns.  I've already pointed out the shit science of global warming.  Add to that the corporate backers of research, who often have goal for the "science" before the first beaker is full.  

So yeah, humans are fallible, but to say that only religious people have agendas is a joke.


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## KelJu (Feb 7, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Oh, so the only reason religious people would ever pursue a scientific endeavor is to prove there is a god?
> 
> Bullshit.  Absolute fucking bullshit.
> 
> ...




Oh fuck me, I give up. 
I'll tell you what, you go argue with things I never said, and I will go play disc golf.


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## bandaidwoman (Feb 7, 2010)

DOMS said:


> As for where science comes from: the original point was not that most scientific discoveries in modern times have come from the US.  It was that they're not coming from the Middle East.  What you're trying to do is called "spin."  And, just for fun, I went to a random site that covers science.  I checked the leading recent discoveries.  They're mostly from the US and western countries.  Also, just because someone has a foriegn sounding name doesn't mean they're not American (Barack Hussein Obama, duh?).  Even if they aren't originally from America, I'm expected to believe that they got an education in another country and then came here and went right to the top?
> 
> *Short version*: you've shown how you adore Muslims (and not Christians) and anything not USA.  I happen to be both American and Christian.  If there's one thing that I don't tolerate anymore, it's dumping on some aspect of who I am.]





first of all you did not read my post, i said most of * my patients *who were gay were white for some reason, *My patient population is mostly white since the whites in this city like asian docs*.  Somehow, your logic that comment now makes my affilliation  in the scientific and medical research field erroneous is just silly logic. 


 I have news for you, some middle eastern  universities rival many of the american universitis.Since I keep up with medical literature and faculties I know that most are foreign born and educated and many come here to do their post doctoral work.  ( Turkey and lebanon like asians master calculus in their early years in high school)  

I was only one of two americans who graduated from my university with a chemistry degree. Why dont you walk into any undergrad physica and chemistry class and see how many are americans \?  These foreignn born scientists plunder our education resources and now are taking their know how back to their countries. China is kickin our asses with stem cell biotechnology. Lebanese neursosurgeons are some of the leading surgeons in the world in dealing with head trauma.  The chief resident at EMory in neurosurgery was educated at the Lebanese university of medicine and bought with him a slew of new techniques that was appled to our grady patients. 

*Why dont you look up how 911 has resulted in severe shortage of research scientists for american companies becasue we are limiting visas to foreigners,and most americans can't fill these research slots?*

*As for pattents and inventions, if the scientist ( many who are not americans) work for an american company ,that company gets the credit.  Trust me, it was why I quit my job as a inorganic chemist.* I came up with a very efficient means of two dimensional gel electropheresis but the european drug company got the credit. 

Thus, asian, middle east and russian and southasians are vital to our research community.    

I don't adore muslims or christians I actually adore buddists. As an athiest I respec the fact that They realize god or gods are just part of the cultural baggage of humans and have risen above that and believe in saving themselves.  I am trying to educate everyone here that the muslim religion like the christian have their good and bad. I have grown up in both cultures , in enlightened aspects of both.

why don't you stop your ad hominem attacks?
Nowhere have i combined science with religion that is doctorman's falllacy.  Like keju, I find that offensive.

*But humans are psycologically weak, even great scientists ( Look at Faraday the father of electromagnetism) need a God or divine to satisfy their anxiety about the world.  These scientists are just as easily Muslim,Chrisitan, Mormon, Hindus etc. * 

*To say that the muslim religion does  does not produce discoveries is as erroneous as saying hinduism prevented scientifci advancements ( when for the longest time India had a poor infrastructure for developing technology and science) . *

* Americans are bigotted  enough to concede that hindu  Indians can be great scientists but not Middle easterners?*


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## bandaidwoman (Feb 7, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Where was Kamal F. Badr educated?



Dr. Badr received his MD from the American University of Beirut (AUB) and  completed Residency training at the AUB-Medical Center followed by a 4-year fellowship in nephrology at the Brigham and Women’s and Children’s Hospitals, Harvard Medical School.

* harvard accepted him right out of Beirut for a fellowship since they have a world class top notch medical program!*

such is the arrogance of americans who can't believe a middle eastern country could have such a top notch medical facilty.




> Islam is crap. Muslim scientist are achieving great things because they were blessed with determination and a beautiful mind that can sort through data and see eloquent solutions to problems. They are not archiving great things because they are Muslim.
> 
> The reason science gets shit done is because you have to check your baggage at the door. In the lab, NOTHING FUCKING MATTERS BUT THE DATA!!!
> 
> Allah, Buddha, Jesus Christ... none of them factor into an equation.



I think we can agree that they are true scientists in that they have allowed their logic and scientific reasoning to supplant their fairy tale beliefs in a god or afterlife. 

However, only when I became a physician did I see the usefulness of religion in facing imminent death.  The few athiests I had with endstage cancers had a much less peaceful acceptance of the in evitable, since there is nothing to look forward to after a long painful struggle with a overpowering cancer.  It made it much easier for me when they believed they were going to some apple pie in the sky.  Oh well, such is human psycology.


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## bandaidwoman (Feb 7, 2010)

DOMS said:


> This is also not entirely true.  Witness the pro-global warming yutzes that fixed the data.  And that's only one example.



The key difference is science always questions itself and the validity of its data, relgion does not.   Sometimes science goes astray, but they do not stick steadfast to their dogmas.  

Look at the whole field of physics where we now know newtonian physics is antiquated and general relativity and quantum physics ( space time curvature and probablistic existence is the true face of nature)

Keep harping on the  political motivations of global warming but basic bench science into the nature of the universe is healthy and strong ...and mostly by non americans using american resources...sigh.


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## bandaidwoman (Feb 7, 2010)

In my prior field, drug development research will be mostly manned by foreign trained pharmacologists etc.

Looming Shortage In Pharmacy School Faculty // Pharmalot




> a rising number of new pharmacy schools, and foreign students who are educated in the US then return home, according to the American Association of Pharmaceutical Scientists



Don't be surprised when other countries dominating the drug development field in the next twenty years.

By the way Ankara University rivals Berkley etc in producing some top notch chemists.http://acikarsiv.ankara.edu.tr/index.php?dil=eng




> you've shown how you adore Muslims (and not Christians) and anything not USA. I happen to be both American and Christian. If there's one thing that I don't tolerate anymore, it's dumping on some aspect of who I am.



Just becasue I point out some good aspects of another religion not your own does not mean I am antichristian.  I am married to a devout southern baptist and I respect his beliefs profoundly or we would not be married happily 11 years. 

Actually I am very proud to be an american, since its constitution respects my athiestic philosophy  as much as the next christian or mormon etc.  I just find that its citizens are not as tolerant when it comes to non christian beliefs.
of course it is tainted by the fact that i do live in the south.

By the way, just because I did not resort to ad hominum attacks against doctorman doesn't mean i agree whith some of his ludicrious propositions.  I have like christianity, seen the beautiful face of his religion. But that does not mean I endorse its truth over christianitiy or any relgion for that matter.


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## bio-chem (Feb 7, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Where was Kamal F. Badr educated? I looked it up, and I couldn't find it amongst the ridiculous amount of credentials and publications, which is a good thing.
> 
> Anywho, I just typed out a page of crap and deleted it all after realizing it is a waste of time. Nobody here is really listening, and almost everyone in this thread is completely full of their own brand of shit and personal biases anyway.
> 
> ...



I agree with so much of this post. 

My concern is that science right now is politically controlled. both sides right now controls science through money, and often times the scientists themselves are going into the lab with biases. science for the sake of science I love. problem is I find that to be dieing right now.


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## bio-chem (Feb 7, 2010)

brk_nemesis said:


> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to KelJu again.



I got the same damn message


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## danzik17 (Feb 7, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> I agree with so much of this post.
> 
> My concern is that science right now is politically controlled. both sides right now controls science through money, and often times the scientists themselves are going into the lab with biases. science for the sake of science I love. problem is I find that to be dieing right now.




Agreed.  I absolutely love reading and seeing the crazy things that real science discovers.  It's such a shame that the youth (in general) has such a small amount if interest in it.

How amazing would it be if we could live during the time of a brilliant scientist like Tesla.


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## KelJu (Feb 7, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> I got the same damn message



????

I am confused.


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## DOMS (Feb 7, 2010)

KelJu said:


> ????
> 
> I am confused.



It means that they've recently given you positive reps and want to give you more, but the system makes them wait to do so.

Where's you science now, Mr. Science Man?!


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## KelJu (Feb 7, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> I agree with so much of this post.
> 
> My concern is that science right now is politically controlled. both sides right now controls science through money, and often times the scientists themselves are going into the lab with biases. science for the sake of science I love. problem is I find that to be dieing right now.





It depends on what branch of science you are talking about. The sciences that are looking for answers to how we should behave will always be corrupted by people. In those situations, real science isn't taking place. It is a mock science intended to deceive and control. 

The other sciences will flourish. New technologies like medicine, biology, physics, chemistry, engineering, ect, those sciences will continue to reveal awesome and beautiful things about our universe, and/or improve our lives.


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## KelJu (Feb 7, 2010)

DOMS said:


> It means that they've recently given you positive reps and want to give you more, but the system makes them wait to do so.
> 
> Where's you science now, Mr. Science Man?!



Gotcha, I didn't know what they were talking about.
It is touching it know people actually approve of my babble.


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## bandaidwoman (Feb 7, 2010)

KelJu said:


> It depends on what branch of science you are talking about. The sciences that are looking for answers to how we should behave will always be corrupted by people. In those situations, real science isn't taking place. It is a mock science intended to deceive and control.
> 
> The other sciences will flourish. New technologies like medicine, biology, physics, chemistry, engineering, ect, those sciences will continue to reveal awesome and beautiful things about our universe, and/or improve our lives.



awesome, you articulate things a lot better than I could.  It's too bad people are just no longer interested in science.I am a guest chemistry  lecturer two days a month at  my daughters private school  so I can try to show the new generation how exciting this field can be.  All hope may not be lost.


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## maniclion (Feb 7, 2010)

KelJu said:


> So what about the atheist scientist? Are they motivated to see knowledge by their belief in nothing?


Come on man, don't be like that you know as well as I that people have their own motivations.  Some may be scientific purists in it just for science, some for better understanding of their god, some to research a cure for cancer that took their mother at a young age, some just because everyone told them they were brilliant, some scientists may not be motivated at all and were forced by their parents into the field, you know the endless possibilities....


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## KelJu (Feb 7, 2010)

maniclion said:


> Come on man, don't be like that you know as well as I that people have their own motivations.  Some may be scientific purists in it just for science, some for better understanding of their god, some to research a cure for cancer that took their mother at a young age, some just because everyone told them they were brilliant, some scientists may not be motivated at all and were forced by their parents into the field, you know the endless possibilities....



Did I come across as a dick in my response? If so, I really do apologize. 
I was becoming highly frustrated that nobody was understanding what I was trying to say.

I agree that religion is a lot of people's reason for trying to excel. There are plenty of reasons to motivate someone to go into the lab and come with with a solution to problems. Money, notoriety, pride, compassion, love, hate, religion, faith, and just the dopamine reward alone causes people to work hard to solve problems.  

I wasn't implying at any point that religion is useless or isn't a primary motivator to some people to become scientist.  

I was only saying that you can't use science to prove or disprove matters of faith. That one sentence could have saved me a lot of grief had I said it sooner.


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## DOMS (Feb 7, 2010)

KelJu said:


> I was only saying that you can't use science to prove or disprove matters of faith.



I had no idea this is what you meant.  And it's a statement that I agree with.


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## Vance (Feb 13, 2010)

Good thread guys, can't believe I've missed the bulk of this one.

Good read though.  Props all round.


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## Curt James (Aug 12, 2010)

doctormomen said:


> Hi every one,im a Muslim Guy from Egypt,so
> thnx for revealing such topic.maybe it's the time also to reveal some truth about that veil " Hijab",women abusing and alot of women rights in islam.
> i would recommend to give a click for this site
> Islams Women - Muslim Woman Status, Rights, Hijab, Marriage, and More..
> just make the try and see how these dudes think



I followed the link. Pretty cool info. But watch it spreading crazy inflammatory Muslim quotes like _this!_

Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said:
*"The most perfect in faith amongst believers is he who is best in manners and kindest to his wife."*






GearsMcGilf said:


> It's hard to blame the French when >10% of their population is now muslim.  They're up to their necks in Islamic cess.  *Most arab women are fugly and smell like shit*, so it's probably just as well.







































 







Honestly? I don't care if this one smells like _a camel._ ​


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