# how to target my upper chest ?



## Nick6 (Feb 11, 2002)

( sorry if this topic has been beat to death in the past )

I'm really trying to target the center of my upper chest, right below my neckline. I've been doing incline dumbell presses, incline flys, the pec fly machine, pushups ... I can see results in that my chest seems broader "outside" or closest to my arms, but virtually no change at the center.

Any suggestions? Any other info needed to offer suggestions?

Thanks in advance.
Nick6


----------



## craig777 (Feb 11, 2002)

This is just my opinion.

I always start with incline bench press. Although I know that I should change my workout every so often, but it seems to be doing pretty well. This way I can use a heavier weight. I also try to keep my muscles under tension as long as I can. So if I can do 8 full reps then I will come down half way hold and go back up. I use a slow count of 313. Then I go to bench press, then flyes, then cable crossover.

I also have noticed that the guys that do the incline dumbbell press almost always set the incline to high. At least in my opinion. I see many guys set it to about 45 degrees. I think somewhere around 20 degrees is better. 45 and you are using your shoulders.

Just keep at it, have patience, and when you are in the gym hit it hard. I also think the biggest thing of bodybuilding is eating right. That is about 75 percent of the battle. If you hit it hard and feed your body the amino acids to rebuild the muscle it will grow.


----------



## Arnold (Feb 11, 2002)

You asked two different things, you said your upper chest, then you said the center fo your chest. ???

I think that overall pec development comes from barbell presses (flat & incline) dumbbell flyes and either cables and/or a pec deck machine.

Since you say that you see more development closer to your arms, I would say refrain from doing barbell presses and concentrate on dumbbel flyes and pec dec.


----------



## Big_Andy (Feb 11, 2002)

I found it is very important to keep shoulder blades together when you do benchpresses. That way, you can feel that your pecs are working!
Try it.


----------



## oldfart (Feb 12, 2002)

I just wanted to mention dumbbell pullovers. Heavy flat and low incline presses are mandatory for building the entire chest area. Unfortunately, very few people use pullovers to help in the development. Dumbbell pullovers work the upper chest, the outer section with delt tie in, and the center of the chest. Not to mention your lats and tris to some extent. If you look at pictures of bodybuilders in the 60s and 70s who used pullovers, they have more depth to their chest because they have enlarged their rib cage. ( a debatable subject ). My chest is well developed and I contribute it to working chest and back together. My favorate routine: Flat bench x 4. Dumbbell pullovers x 3. Bent over rows x 4. Incline dumbbell press x 2-3. Lower cable row x 2-3.
Sorry for rambling.
Take care.

of


----------



## gopro (Feb 12, 2002)

Upper inner chest workout...

1. superset...incline CABLE flye/ incline dumbell press
2. superset...cable crossover from BOTTOM pully(handles should come together at face height as you squeeze pecs)/ incline barbell press with medium grip
3. dumbell pullover


----------



## ossiferdawkins (Feb 13, 2002)

do more presses. when you do presses use a closer grip. also when you do your workouts be sure to do a concentrated lift. dont zip through your workout. course I dont believe you should have to spend all day on one set either. slow to moderate speed on each rep with a squeeze at the top. just slow your reps down enough til you feel it through out your muscle. preexaust with flys and then hit the presses so your muscle will be thoroughly worked at the end of your workout. one more point...do full range of motion reps. dont do the half or quarter lift crap or short quick movement crap. you cant get a good workout doing that bull. The entire muscle has to feel it. cheating never works. there are no short cuts. (er well except with roids, thats an totally different subject and dont get me started LOL!)


----------



## Nick6 (Feb 13, 2002)

Thanks for your tips and feedback everyone. -(nm)-


----------



## IronFist (Feb 13, 2002)

3 Things....

1.keep the bench in about a 20-30 degree angle..
2.concentrate on working that muscle..(mind muscle connection)
3.take a look at your grip on barbell incline presses, go a little more in than you would normally go....(a closer girp also in flat bench works the inner pecs)....

Just my 2cents...


----------



## gopro (Feb 13, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Upper inner chest workout...
> 
> 1. superset...incline CABLE flye/ incline dumbell press
> ...



Do this workout for chest once per week for 8 weeks, and watch how your upper, inner chest fills in!


----------



## fitness4life (Mar 17, 2002)

Try changing your bar or dubbell placement when decending the weight.  Make sure you are bringing the weight to your upper chest not the middle of your chest.  This gives your chest a greater pull.  Also make sure your bench is at the right angle.  To determine this sit on an adjustable incline bench and try different angles while at the same time placed one of your hands on your chest and without any weight do a pressing movement.  This helps to see bar placement and angle placement that hit your upper chest the best.  As for incline dumbbell flies, try doing them with thumbs facing each other instead of palms facing each other.


----------



## mesmall (Mar 17, 2002)

I with the people that say that the pectoral is one muscle and that the muscle either contracts or does not. I do not believe in isolating differant parts of one muscle. Genetics determine size and shape. That being said I think differant exercises for differant people will bring varied results, so maybe inclines might be YOUR answer. Just my 2 cents. Peace.


----------



## Robboe (Mar 17, 2002)

Oh my sweet christ @this thread.


----------



## the ripper (Mar 17, 2002)

a closer grip while doing incline bench will target upper middle chest


----------



## Mule (Mar 17, 2002)

Where is TSB when you need him.....LOL!


----------



## seyone (Mar 17, 2002)

I agree with messmall that you cannot isolate different parts of a muscle.


----------



## Robboe (Mar 18, 2002)

I want to grab a rifle and "pick off" several people in this thread.


----------



## gopro (Mar 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> I want to grab a rifle and "pick off" several people in this thread.



I am guessing you are saying this because you do not believe you can isolate the upper or inner part of the chest? Am I right?

Well, I don't really care what anyone thinks, but you CAN target specific areas, and can change the shape of a muscle WITHIN your genetic limitations. Someone that does only flat work on chest WILL NOT have as complete development as someone that utilizes various angles and positions.

You can thicken the inner chest with crossovers, cable flyes, and pec deck. I've done it with myself and with countless others in my 17 years as a trainer.


----------



## Mule (Mar 18, 2002)

Have to agree with the Pro. (regreting it) But Ive seen what he can do.


----------



## Arnold (Mar 18, 2002)

I agree with gopro. 

I have heard both arguments, but experience wins on this subject for me. 

Mule, do not ever say something like that again!


----------



## Robboe (Mar 19, 2002)

Oh my sweet Lord...


Could someone please phone for an ambulance, i'm currenly having a cardiac arrest...


----------



## Scotty the Body (Mar 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Oh my sweet Lord...




You Called????


----------



## Robboe (Mar 19, 2002)

Scotty, shoot them. Shoot them all!


----------



## Scotty the Body (Mar 19, 2002)

Hows this..............THE CHEST IS ONE MUSCLE!!! 

However I do agree that hitting it from multiple angles is much more benificial in overall development than just doing flat and incline bench.


----------



## Arnold (Mar 19, 2002)

If you two are correct, then one can obtain complete pec development from flat bench press and flyes, right?


----------



## Scotty the Body (Mar 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> If you two are correct, then one can obtain complete pec development from flat bench press and flyes, right?



I never said that.    I said the pec was ONE muscle and I stand behind that.


----------



## Arnold (Mar 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Scotty the Body *_
> I never said that.    I said the pec was ONE muscle and I stand behind that.



The pectorial major is one muscle, but there is also the pectorial minor, so you could say that the "chest" is actually 2 muscles!


----------



## Scotty the Body (Mar 19, 2002)

Okok, I was refuting to the Pec major as some people think it has different muscles (upper, lower, outer, and inner).


----------



## Robboe (Mar 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> If you two are correct, then one can obtain complete pec development from flat bench press and flyes, right?



Yup.

The reason i don't do this is because using other exercises strengthens my pressing. for example, i do dips to aid my tricep strength. I do OH presses to aid my shoulder strength. I do flyes, or some sort of decline press to focus more on the chest adn take out the delts and tris slightly. Collectively, they all come together to aid my pressing. If i'm progressing on my presses i'm getting bigger. I know I am. And i am.

Same goes for Squats and rows (vertical and horizontal). I do complimentary exercises to aid my progrsssion in these lifts.

I'm over 200lbs but i'm not experienced imo. definately not compared to gopro who's been training like 10 years, so my focus isn;t on bring up a lagging part or anything like that. I do what i do to get big and it's working. It pisses me off that people are worrying about pissy little muscles over all muscles. If they just looked at the bigger picture they'd realise that they should be fcusing on getting their entire bodies bigger and forget worrying about upper inner chests and what-not for now.

Until they are over 200lbs (with "respectable" bodyfat digits) and have been training a few years i think upper chests and outer biceps shouldn't be primary focus.


----------



## Robboe (Mar 19, 2002)

And as a general query, a quick show of hands for folk who believe that you can build more biceps peak from conc. curls, more outer tricep from certain exercises, more outer calf from poiting toes inward and outer calf vice versa etc....

Thank you.


----------



## Scotty the Body (Mar 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Until they are over 200lbs (with "respectable" bodyfat digits) and have been training a few years i think upper chests and outer biceps shouldn't be primary focus.



I totally agree with that!!


----------



## Robboe (Mar 19, 2002)

Of course you do. You're clearly a genius.


----------



## gopro (Mar 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> And as a general query, a quick show of hands for folk who believe that you can build more biceps peak from conc. curls, more outer tricep from certain exercises, more outer calf from poiting toes inward and outer calf vice versa etc....
> 
> Thank you.



Well, I agree with you when you say that most people should be focusing on basic movements that work a primary mover as well as secondary muscles, stabilizers, neutralizers, etc.

For your first several years of training you should be focused on bench press, military press, squats, deadlifts, pullups, dips, stiff deads, etc. Then, when you have reached a respectable level of development and/or want to compete, you can begin to work in more "isolation" movements to "shape" your body.

TRUE, TRUE, TRUE that!

However, I just want to point out that certain exercises will affect certain "areas" or "sections" of a muscle more than others. This can easily be proven in the gym. I can take myself or one of my clients and make their outer triceps more sore one day, and their inner triceps more sore the next. I can make their inner chest more sore than outer chest, and vice versa.

Also, you can look at EMG studies on muscles as they are being worked by various exercises at various angles, varying grips, etc., and cleary see which area of the muscle is being affected most.

I just want to mention one example here of a client of mine that is a high level competitive bodybuilder. Last year he placed 4th in a big contest, and he asked the judges what he needed to improve to do better. They told him he needed more "outer thigh sweep" and more "inner and upper chest."

He came to me and I changed his training to "target" these areas. We worked hard and diligently on a certain selection of execises and certain training techniques and this year his improvements in these once weak areas are "startling!" 

He posed in front of a judge recently that was on the panel at his last show, and the guy was floored at his improvements!

You can shape the physique!


----------



## Robboe (Mar 20, 2002)

EMG may show more stress on one area of a muscle (although i find EMG studies quite suspect) it doesn't mean that it will cause growth in that area. If that was the case then you'd have all weird, lumpy muscles.

Btw, you'll notice i never mentioned quads in my query. More than one muscle makes up the quads so i never mention them in arguements like these. 

I do agree you can stress things like medial triceps head by certain exercises, but you can't cause growth in these areas alone, or spur on growth in these areas in a faster rate than the rest of the muscle.

Even Dorian Yates, who's main chest builder was free weight incline press for many years, had a thicker lower chest in relation to upper chest (although his chest on the whole was frickin huge). At the end of the day it comes down to genetics. The lower portion of the chest is genetically predisposed to be thicker than the upper unless you have favourable genetics (Sergio Olivia is a good example of this).

I think guys (and gals) who spend their time trying to build upper chests with incline movements aren;t wasting their time as such, but they aren;t using their time as productively as they could. Inclines use too much deltoid for my liking so are more a pseudo-chest workout. I dropped them months ago and havent looked back since. My upper chest now compared to what it wa when i did inclines every week is no different, except for the fact that my entire chest is bigger (from using more favourable chest movements).

And the guys in my gym who still do inclines still aren;t having any luck altering their genetics. The guys who claim that inclines have helped their upper chest are merely disorientated because in that time their entire chest has gotten bigger, giving the appearance of a larger upper chest.

At the end of the day tho, some folk use inclines becuase flat is too harsh on their shoulder joints (usually from years of piss-poor form on the bench) whcih is fair enough. Inclines ARE a chest movement, but IMO they are the poorest form of press. IMO flat, slight declines (30 degress) and dips are all superior forms of press.

If you have even half the experience of gopro then fine, maybe it is time to see if you can play about with movements and angles to see if it helps but i seriously doubt it - especially as far as upper chest growth is concerned. But unless you are that big or have been training long enough then quit wasting time, or at least use it more productively.

that is all.


----------



## gopro (Mar 20, 2002)

I respect your opinion on this matter Chicken Daddy...and like I said, I agree that beginners and intermediates should be more concerned about basic compound movements than wasting time on angles and isolation movements. They need a base first, and to find a pool of basic exercises that cause good overall growth for them...

However, regardless of EMG studies, I have been at this too long and trained and "shaped" too many bodies to ever doubt that a variety of angles, grips, compound, and isolation movements are needed to bring out the entire shape and genetic potential of a muscle.

You cannot a complete(meaning full genetic potential) physique using just one exercise for each bodypart...compound or not.


----------



## Robboe (Mar 20, 2002)

"You cannot a complete(meaning full genetic potential) physique using just one exercise for each bodypart...compound or not."

I agree actually. Like i said previously, i do complimentary exercises to assist my daddy-exercises.

Other than that there isn't much left to be said here. it's two sides of the fence. Folk can make their own mind up.


----------



## gopro (Mar 20, 2002)

Nuff said!


----------



## Robboe (Mar 20, 2002)

yes.


----------



## Pitboss (Mar 20, 2002)

But what about the outer chest?? You only went over the inner and upper  

... 

Simple answer to a complex question... Use basic compound movements, incorporate a vary selection of isolation movements, eat properly, rest and it will grow.. lower, upper, middle, and outer... oh and minor too!!!!


----------



## Bob Bob (Mar 20, 2002)

start with incline


----------



## Robboe (Mar 20, 2002)

*smack*


----------



## gopro (Mar 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Pitboss *_
> But what about the outer chest?? You only went over the inner and upper
> 
> ...
> Is this a serious question? Are you gonna get me started again


----------



## Pitboss (Mar 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> 
> 
> > _*Originally posted by Pitboss *_
> ...


----------



## gopro (Mar 21, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Pitboss *_
> 
> 
> well read the rest of that post....
> ...



It is actually a litle difficult to tell from your response how you feel about the issue in this thread...but anyway, as far as getting your upper and lower abs to the same thickness, that can be hard, but it can be done. Thickening one "specific box" cannot be done, and neither can the height of where your abs "sit" be changed either.


----------



## Pitboss (Mar 21, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> It is actually a litle difficult to tell from your response how you feel about the issue in this thread...



I'm just playing.... 

I'll stick to my original response which in my mind takes a neutral position... 

Simple answer to a complex question... Use basic compound movements, incorporate a vary selection of isolation movements, eat properly, rest and it will grow.. lower, upper, middle, and outer... oh and minor too!!!!


----------



## Robboe (Mar 21, 2002)

Aw pitboss you've let me down.

you had potential.


----------



## Pitboss (Mar 21, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Aw pitboss you've let me down.
> 
> you had potential.



Oh I'm with a TCD.. really I am. Just past experience with this topic and a thread that had over 500 posts... I've learned to keep my thoughts about this to myself..

Nothing against Go-pro and his thoughts on this either...


----------



## Robboe (Mar 21, 2002)

That's mah boy 

Ok, it's me, you and Scotty thus far. The rebellion is growing Gopro


----------



## gopro (Mar 21, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> That's mah boy
> 
> Ok, it's me, you and Scotty thus far. The rebellion is growing Gopro



Your rebellion may be growing, but NOT outgrowing ME on my training methods(254 and counting)...this is MY house...just wait till you see how much I've infiltrated the WBB...


----------



## Neil (Mar 21, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> 
> 
> Your rebellion may be growing, but NOT outgrowing ME on my training methods(254 and counting)...this is MY house...just wait till you see how much I've infiltrated the WBB...



eeeasy there big fella

Actually you have swayed me a bit on the idea of shaping a muscle. I just don't want any newbies to be confused about their priorities. I was doing this stuff when I first started lifting and I wasted a lot of time on it. I think when someone asks a question about their upper chest or outer biceps the first thing that should be asked of them is their level of experience, just to avoid confusion.


----------



## gopro (Mar 22, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Neil *_
> 
> 
> eeeasy there big fella
> ...



I ALWAYS ask people their level of experience as I always tell beginners to focus on basic exercises and not worry about shape. I've been at this a long time and train 13 year olds just starting out and seasoned competitors. Obviously their training must be very different from each other, just as I would not train a football player and a tennis player the same way.

As for eeeasy there big fella...can't do it...too much passion for this stuff....


----------



## Neil (Mar 22, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> As for eeeasy there big fella...can't do it...too much passion for this stuff....



I feel ya on that one Keep it up, I'm lookin forward to seein some new pics when you compete again


----------



## Robboe (Mar 22, 2002)

So gopro, if you really can hit the upper chest more in relation to lower chest, then in theory you should be able to make the upper chest actually appear bigger than the lower portion right?

I'd like to see that.


----------



## Yanks20 (Mar 22, 2002)

me personally, my upper chest is more defined than my lower chest. in recent years i have stayed away from declines except for maybe a burnout at the end of my chest workout.

in a whole though i would have to say that my entire chest is pretty symmetrical in its build. just lots of years of hard work


----------



## Robboe (Mar 22, 2002)

Humans have a tendancy to retain fat around the lower portion of the chest and around the nipples so it's not suprising your upper chest is more defined. That means nothing.


----------



## Yanks20 (Mar 22, 2002)

hey when it all comes down to it, you just have to do what you feel works for you that's all.


----------



## Robboe (Mar 22, 2002)

I agree, but i don't agree with people advising not-so-experienced lifters about the same thing.

This is one of the reasons i'm up Gopro's ass so much


----------



## Yanks20 (Mar 22, 2002)

hey if that is your thing, that's fine by me. i have just been posting things that work for me and if anyone can get anything out of it and help then great. but then again if you feel that your methods work best and so forth so be it!


----------



## Robboe (Mar 22, 2002)

I am it.


----------



## Arnold (Mar 22, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> So gopro, if you really can hit the upper chest more in relation to lower chest, then in theory you should be able to make the upper chest actually appear bigger than the lower portion right?
> 
> I'd like to see that.



Okay, here -->


----------



## Robboe (Mar 22, 2002)

nice try 

Franco is a genetic freak quite frankly.

If you look at older photos when he isn;t as big you'll notice his upper chest has always been like that.

This is a perfect example of what i mentioned earlier: Some folk (like franco or sergio) have prime genetics for a great chest. Most haven't.


----------



## Yanks20 (Mar 22, 2002)

very true. most of us have one or two area's that seem to develop much better than others. me personally it is my chest and shoulders. my hardest to grow is bi's. how about you?


----------



## Robboe (Mar 22, 2002)

What is your back and bi routine Yanks?

do you do them on the same day or separate them? if so, what is your split?

Calves for me btw.


----------



## Yanks20 (Mar 22, 2002)

lately i actually have been doing back and bi's together. i also have done splits in the past with just one muscle group per day. personally i like doing one muscle group per day and see the best results then.

current back rountine: 3-4 sets per

pullups
lat pulldown (front)
barbell rows
close grip pulldowns

aslo rotate in one arm rows, seated rows and very rarely behind the neck pulldowns.

bi's

standing barbell curls
seated incline curls
standing hammers
preachers

also swith up ez-curl bar (assending sets), concentration curls, seated alternate curls.


----------



## Arnold (Mar 22, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> If you look at older photos when he isn't as big you'll notice his upper chest has always been like that.




So, his upper chest was not always like that, huh?


----------



## Robboe (Mar 22, 2002)

His entire chest has grown, Prince. Again I re-itterate: "nice try".


Yanks, IMO you do far too much volume.

i say 2 sets per exercise.

4-8 sets for large bodyparts, 2-4 for small ones (especially if you do small ones following large ones eg bis after back).


----------



## Yanks20 (Mar 22, 2002)

right now with the combination routine i do a total of 12 sets between back and bi's. what you are seeing above is the split and exercises i use when doing one muscle per day.

i have tried cutting down on the amount of sets in the past but personally feel that if i stay in the 12 set target that is when i see my best results.


----------



## arbntmare (Mar 22, 2002)

i feel tention in the air


----------



## w8lifter (Mar 22, 2002)

Couldn't we save some energy by just bumping the old threads? 

*goes back to lurking*


----------



## gopro (Mar 23, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> I am it.



1- yes, you're an "it"
2- if the genetics are there for a very well developed upper chest, than yes, you can develop it over and above the lower chest. If Franco focused his efforts soley on upper chest, he would probably have been disproportionate
3- I have said SEVERAL times on here that I do not recommend "shape" training to beginners. Again, to them I recommend a "pool" of basic lifts. Only after there is ample development do I go to a more complicated training method, IF, their goal is to build the most "complete" physique possible
4- please, stay away from my ass


----------



## Robboe (Mar 24, 2002)

Yanks, how can you say 12 sets is where you see best results when you just said earlier you were having problems making your biceps grow?!

Gopro, you love me being near your ass, admit it.


----------



## gopro (Mar 24, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> Gopro, you love me being near your ass, admit it.



Actually I like w8lifter near my ass, but only her


----------



## jeremy1122k (Apr 15, 2002)

do lots of heavy inclines


----------



## Robboe (Apr 15, 2002)

Be quiet.


----------



## gopro (Apr 15, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Be quiet.




Play nice CD!


----------



## Arnold (Apr 15, 2002)

oh my lord, who revived this damn thead?!


----------



## gopro (Apr 15, 2002)

Kill it, kill it now, kill it quick....I smell something nasty...uh oh, its the WBB crew...ahhhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## Mule (Apr 15, 2002)

Some one must having some trouble in the nipplage area.


----------



## Robboe (Apr 16, 2002)

No, it's not the wbb crew. It seems more like someone trying to get 25 posts.


----------



## Eggs (Apr 16, 2002)

*sigh* the one downside to making it mandatory to have 25 posts.

Can we just make it 100 posts and be done with it?  Only the serious will actually be here then.

Eggs


----------



## Robboe (Apr 16, 2002)

It should be invite only.


----------



## gopro (Apr 16, 2002)

How about THIS


----------

