# God or Evolution



## moon (Jan 9, 2004)

no one knows the truth but what do u want to believe and what will u believe until u die?


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## I Are Baboon (Jan 9, 2004)

Oh crap, heeeeeeere we go.


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## HoldDaMayo (Jan 9, 2004)

I actually like that Marilyn Manson quote too... even being a Christian... I am not a slave to a god of Materialistic things... I am not a slave to a god of Financial endowment... because those god's don't exist... the quote still leaves the option of I AM a slave to the God that DOES exist... so all in all... I think it's a pretty smart statement...


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## bandaidwoman (Jan 9, 2004)

I chose niether.

Creationism and evolution do not have to be mutually exclusive.
What if evolution is God's blueprint?  In addition, Darwinism is now outdated.

Darwin's theory does have many holes, and it continues to evolve so that the basic tenets have changed considerably. One of the "holes" is its failure in explaining the Cambrian explosion where millions of new species seem to instantaneously appear on the earth. (Creationists use this as a way of invalidating Darwin).To say evolution is wrong because there are inconsistancies belittles the scientific endevour of systematically elucidating our best guess to explain the natural world around us. 

Newtonian physics and his basic laws are still valid despite the fact that it completely crumbles when you try to use it to explain subatomic matter  or the quantum world.  This inconsistency does not subtract from Newtonian physics. We still use Newtonian physics to lauch the space shuttle, not quantum  mechanics.  The same can be said for the punctated equilibrium or the lack of evidence of "slow morphing" into new species. We need to come up with a better scientific explanation.  



Darwin's theory was a rudimentary first step. and it predicts certain phenomena in the fossil record with a certain degree of accuracy. Does it explain the whole thing? Well no. Nobody would be working on evolutionary biology if it did. 

For the record, people who adhere to the theory of evolution are not called "Darwinists" they are called "Evolutionary theorists." That's not pc nitpicking, it's an expression of the fact that it's misleading to call people trying to advance evolutionary biology after a theory that not one scientist will support as complete. It's like calling physicists "newtonists." 

The short version: does evolution occur? Absolutely - the fossil record simply couldn't be created any other way. Does this evolution occur through Darwinian mechanisms? No, not exlusively anyway - it's possible that Darwinian mechanisms contribute, though.


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## nikegurl (Jan 9, 2004)

i've never seen it as an "either/or" 

both


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## moon (Jan 9, 2004)

woh bandaid has strong devotion to defend


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## DFINEST (Jan 9, 2004)

GOD

***********************************

What does not kill you
makes you stronger


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## butterfly (Jan 9, 2004)

I agree with bandaidwoman and nikegurl.


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## bandaidwoman (Jan 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by moon *_
> woh bandaid has strong devotion to defend



Sorry,  I find myself rehashing this argument over and over again here in the deep bible belt south (remember, they are advocating teaching creationism in the public schools and/or  getting rid of evolutionary teaching.) Thus, I get overly passionate about the subject.


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## maddog1 (Jan 9, 2004)

What came first, ribosomes or the DNA to encode for the production of ribosomes.  They both had to be present concurrently for a cell to undergo cytokinesis.
Evolution by itself doesn't hold water.
Check out Supernatural selection.


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## Arnold (Jan 9, 2004)

this debate no longer interests me...it never goes anywhere.


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## JJJ (Jan 9, 2004)

What prince said. 

Its fun IRL but here it just takes 3 weeks to exhange 10 sentences...


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## maniclion (Jan 9, 2004)

You forgot the option: Neither, we are just one big SIMS game.


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## BigBallaGA (Jan 9, 2004)

EVO without a doubt !


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## Crono1000 (Jan 9, 2004)

both


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## kbm8795 (Jan 9, 2004)

We were colonized by the Klingons....xcept now they are called Republicans.


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## Rocco32 (Jan 9, 2004)

Both, and I'm am very much a christian. I don't believe it happened quite the way Darwin puts it (who later in fact did renounce his claims) but evolution is evident I think. However I do not believe we came from single celled amebas (?) or monkeys.


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## P-funk (Jan 9, 2004)

Who cares?  I am more interested in knowing what happens when I die.  I f it is worse than this than I am going to be really pissed off!!


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## Jenny (Jan 10, 2004)

Both


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## kuso (Jan 10, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by P-funk *_
> Who cares?  I am more interested in knowing what happens when I die.  I f it is worse than this than I am going to be really pissed off!!



LOL......I relate to this


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## HoldDaMayo (Jan 10, 2004)

If this thread was about MItsubishi Lancer Evo(lution) I would be ALLLLL over it...


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## moon (Jan 10, 2004)

I just want to know what people believe currently. I know there is no point discussing about it .
sry i forget neither option. So this poll is not meant for non-Christians.


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## Rixmon (Jan 10, 2004)

Both, Both I tell you! hehe


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## camarosuper6 (Jan 11, 2004)

Maybe Gods plan WAS evolution.

Im for God all the way, but only he has all the answers.  Not much fun worrying about things well never figure out.


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## BigBallaGA (Jan 11, 2004)

who is this god guy everyone keep refering to ?!?!?

i think its painfully obvious to all the church going people that science is finally starting to shovel religion under the carpet !!! give it another 50 - 100 years, religion will evanesce into history !!!!!


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## katie64 (Jan 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by bandaidwoman *_
> 
> 
> Creationism and evolution do not have to be mutually exclusive.
> What if evolution is God's blueprint?


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## katie64 (Jan 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by P-funk *_
> Who cares?  I am more interested in knowing what happens when I die.  I f it is worse than this than I am going to be really pissed off!!


ME too


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## moon (Jan 11, 2004)

how about Adam and Eve. If God is true then Bible would be wrong .


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## moon (Jan 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by BigBallaGA *_
> who is this god guy everyone keep refering to ?!?!?
> 
> i think its painfully obvious to all the church going people that science is finally starting to shovel religion under the carpet !!! give it another 50 - 100 years, religion will evanesce into history !!!!!



this guy is getting smart


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## Tank316 (Jan 11, 2004)

i personally like coors light,


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## Pepper (Jan 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by BigBallaGA *_
> who is this god guy everyone keep refering to ?!?!?
> 
> i think its painfully obvious to all the church going people that science is finally starting to shovel religion under the carpet !!! give it another 50 - 100 years, religion will evanesce into history !!!!!



Thus sayeth BigBalla. No religious thread is complete until Bigball comes in with his ridiculous anti-religion CRAP.


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## SJ69 (Jan 11, 2004)

God or evolution?
BOTH
-could someone please explain why they must be mutually exclusive?  why can't God create evolving creatures????


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## John H. (Jan 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by moon *_
> no one knows the truth but what do u want to believe and what will u believe until u die?


 Hi Moon. I will always believe in considering ALL INFORMATION FROM ALL SOURCES and being very open minded and very objective. We learn throughout our entire lives and new information comes about all the time. I would never "just consider" "one source" for anything. God gave us all a brain and I would think He would want each of us to utilize it to the very best of our ability and honestly and accurately so. Religions - and there are thousands of them - all have their "problems" and their "history" bigtime. As with anything I feel everything  has a contribution to make in accurately understanding and knowing...  Take Care, John H.


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## OmarJackson (Jan 11, 2004)

whats the branch of science or belief that is basically creationism but isn't called creationism (not tied to judea-christian beliefs) and thus is legal to be taught in schools.


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## Stickboy (Jan 11, 2004)

From what I've seen the more science tries to prove that the bible is wrong, the more the scientist scratch their heads.

Discovery channel has had quite a few of these things on in the last year or so.

I figure we'll all know one way or the other at the end.  Course, those of us that believe in God might be better off than those that don't


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## irontime (Jan 11, 2004)

god or evolution??  What the hell are you talking about?? 

Since when did we leave the 'Earth is on the back of a giant turtle' option out of this?


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## bandaidwoman (Jan 11, 2004)

I think what it comes down to is that everyone wants answers now. When those answers are not provided, debates follow.  However, neither religion nor science has proven their case. That is why we have terms like "theory" and "faith." Many creationists dismiss science as a whole just because they got one thing wrong. Evolutionists will dismiss religion just because they got many things wrong.


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## gr81 (Jan 11, 2004)

You all bring up valid points, at least most of you do, and niether answer is right or wrong from what we know so it is pointless to attack each other for what someone believes. I do believe in teh theory of avolution and I am indeed an athiest so I believe there si no god ro higher power. It is not up to science to disprove your religious theories. If you are claiming something is true it is up to YOU to prove it. its all good though


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## BUSTINOUT (Jan 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Pepper *_
> Thus sayeth BigBalla. No religious thread is complete until Bigball comes in with his ridiculous anti-religion CRAP.



LOL.  And backed by absolutely nothing even remotely credible.


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## loki (Jan 13, 2004)

why do we need to believe in anything? the only problem i have with christians and the god they worship and this book they cling to is their whole faith is based on interactions with books and mankind or what other people tell them. or get this...how they feeeeel. yay. not to mention that a lot of activities are circumvented not by moral or logical decisions but 'what would jesus do?' crap. why the fuck can i not buy liqour on sundays? and to make it worse, if you don't accept jesus as your savior you'll burn in hell. what kind of logic is that? would a true father really damn his child to oblivion based on giving him/her freedom of choice? i've done worse things to my parents than saying, 'i don't believe in you' and have been forgiven. why does god have to be such a dick? btw, i was late to work due to a wreck on the highway. guess that guy made god mad. oh wait, i mean the devil. oh wait i mean it's part of god's divine plan.


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## John H. (Jan 13, 2004)

*Answers right now!*



> _*Originally posted by bandaidwoman *_
> I think what it comes down to is that everyone wants answers now. When those answers are not provided, debates follow.  However, neither religion nor science has proven their case. That is why we have terms like "theory" and "faith." Many creationists dismiss science as a whole just because they got one thing wrong. Evolutionists will dismiss religion just because they got many things wrong.


 Hi Bandaid. I think you are right on! People "want it (all) NOW"! (Answers, and answers to the "unanswerable"  too).  And they consider ONLY one or a few sources. The answers are not always that simple or readily available. ALL SOURCES MUST BE CONSIDERED FOR ALL INFORMATION ALL THE TIME. And HAVING an open mind and being very objective about all subjects is the VERY BEST approach at least if you are seeking (meaning anyone here) real honesty and accuracy....  Take Care, John H.


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## John H. (Jan 13, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by loki *_
> why do we need to believe in anything? the only problem i have with christians and the god they worship and this book they cling to is their whole faith is based on interactions with books and mankind or what other people tell them. or get this...how they feeeeel. yay. not to mention that a lot of activities are circumvented not by moral or logical decisions but 'what would jesus do?' crap. why the fuck can i not buy liqour on sundays? and to make it worse, if you don't accept jesus as your savior you'll burn in hell. what kind of logic is that? would a true father really damn his child to oblivion based on giving him/her freedom of choice? i've done worse things to my parents than saying, 'i don't believe in you' and have been forgiven. why does god have to be such a dick? btw, i was late to work due to a wreck on the highway. guess that guy made god mad. oh wait, i mean the devil. oh wait i mean it's part of god's divine plan.


 Hi Loki. I have always felt that there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between RELIGION(S) and God / Christ - a VERY BIG DIFFERENCE!!! RELIGIONS are radiculous really IF you LOOK and EXAMINE them HONESTLY AND ACCURATELY AND COMPLETELY... They are creating their own existance more often than not and the use of brainwashing is incredible. The amount of people that are just willing to "believe" just because they are TOLD to "believe".... God gave EACH of us a brain and I would expect He would WANT US to UTILIZE that brain to the VERY BEST of our abilities and to QUESTION EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE... RELIGION IS OUT OF CONTROL COMPLETELY - it is the money, position and power they are REALLY interested in - NOT GOD, NOT Christ!!! I have seen a tremendous increase in the "religious insanity stuff" over the years and it is scary the POWER they hold over those that are terrified of the unknown and unanswerable and the emptiness many suffer in their personal lives and living. RELIGIONS PREY on these people BIGTIME!!! Take Care, John H.


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## TheGreatSatan (Jan 13, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by HoldDaMayo *_
> I actually like that Marilyn Manson quote too... even being a Christian... I am not a slave to a god of Materialistic things... I am not a slave to a god of Financial endowment... because those god's don't exist... the quote still leaves the option of I AM a slave to the God that DOES exist... so all in all... I think it's a pretty smart statement...




Huh?  Marilyn Manson is a priest for the Church of Satan.


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## loki (Jan 13, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by John H. *_
> God gave EACH of us a brain and I would expect He would WANT US to UTILIZE that brain to the VERY BEST of our abilities and to QUESTION EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE...



damn good point



> _*Originally posted by TheGreatSatan *_
> Huh?  Marilyn Manson is a priest for the Church of Satan.



i think holdamayo is saying he is christian, not marilyn. course i have seen some crazy looking christians.


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## moon (Jan 13, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by TheGreatSatan *_
> Huh?  Marilyn Manson is a priest for the Church of Satan.



I also heard abt it. Do they sacrifice?


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## BUSTINOUT (Jan 13, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by loki *_
> why do we need to believe in anything? the only problem i have with christians and the god they worship and this book they cling to is their whole faith is based on interactions with books and mankind or what other people tell them. or get this...how they feeeeel. yay. not to mention that a lot of activities are circumvented not by moral or logical decisions but 'what would jesus do?' crap. why the fuck can i not buy liqour on sundays? and to make it worse, if you don't accept jesus as your savior you'll burn in hell. what kind of logic is that? would a true father really damn his child to oblivion based on giving him/her freedom of choice? i've done worse things to my parents than saying, 'i don't believe in you' and have been forgiven. why does god have to be such a dick? btw, i was late to work due to a wreck on the highway. guess that guy made god mad. oh wait, i mean the devil. oh wait i mean it's part of god's divine plan.



You're forgetting one point.  He also sent is son to die for US.  If you are going to try to question God's fairness, don't forget the important points.  Also, do some homework.  God does not damn His children, but rather those that are not.  Also, not being able to buy booze on Sunday is not a God thing, it's passed by YOUR elected officials.  IF you don't like it...SHUT UP AND VOTE TO CHANGE IT!!!   

Sorry to get off topic but had to address one sided ignorance.


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## Mr.Guvernment (Jan 13, 2004)

what about aliens putting us here?


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## Mr.Guvernment (Jan 13, 2004)

Actually BUSTINOUT


not being able to buy liqour goes to Sunday being church day and drinking being a sin? so it is actually religion playing a large part

i am sure the local offices would love to sell liqour on sunday = more money for their government. But it would likely raise some HUGE religous stink.


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## TheGreatSatan (Jan 14, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by moon *_
> I also heard abt it. Do they sacrifice?



No.  I'm a priest too.


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## BUSTINOUT (Jan 14, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Mr.Guvernment *_
> Actually BUSTINOUT
> 
> 
> ...



So what?  Not like they don't do other stuff to raise a stink.  I am familiar enough with blue laws, and even in the Bible Belt, it would blow over pretty quick.  Everyone bitches about separation of church and state, rather than do something about it.  My point is this guy loopi, looni, loki, whatever has a huge bag of complaints about God, and God is not even the one causing his problem.  Guy has a chip that's all. lol


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## loki (Feb 29, 2004)

to me, saying there is no christian god is like saying there is no greenish purple men from the planet smar-tron 5. i guess i have a huge bag of complaints about aliens too.

ttt


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## Eggs (Feb 29, 2004)

But nobody finds what you say credible, so why would it matter what you say?


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## loki (Mar 1, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Eggs *_
> But nobody finds what you say credible, so why would it matter what you say?



it doesn't matter what i say, as i do not damn anyone to an existence that is separated from everything that is good. and you're right, nobody finds me credible...sniff...i guess i should do more than 77 posts in 9 months so i can be credible.  oh and wasn't the start of this thread:

God or Evolution  Post #1 

no one knows the truth but what do u want to believe and what will u believe until u die?


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## Eggs (Mar 1, 2004)

Yeah, 78 posts now... you should be ashamed 

I felt like I had to put a slam move on this statement:

"saying there is no christian god is like saying there is no greenish purple men from the planet smar-tron 5"

There are most definitely greenish purple men on the planet smar-tron 5


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## Rich46yo (Mar 7, 2005)

Did anybody ever entertain the notion that we "create God" and "heaven" out of fear of the unknown of death? Or, to comfort us in witness to the inhumanities of humanity?

                           And maybe we invented Hell in order to keep a majority of the unwashed masses in decent social order. Sort of like a chimpanzee troop kicking out the one jagoff chimp that keeps fucking up. And while I'm at it with chimps did you know we share 97% of the same DNA with chimps? The reason for that is we both branched off from a common ancestor 6 millions years ago on the plains of east central Africa. Wheres that in your Adam and Eve book?

                          Scientists recently found the remains of a human ancestor, in the horn of Africa, thats at least 4 million years old. How long ago was Adam and Eve?

                          And why would it matter, in terms of human interaction, if there even was a heaven or hell? A God or not? What is the relevance? Who gives a shit? The fables behind creationism, at least to me, are the ultimate expression of human arrogance. Right up there with the pope thinking he's got a personal bee-line right to God that none of the rest of us have. When the Bible was written people thought the earth was flat, mermaids and monsters roamed the sea's, the earth was the center of the universe, the stars were the fires of heaven,humans were lucky to live to 40yo, and wannabee scientists were burned at the stake. But gee, why should we question the Bible?

                        Woman from a mans rib? Whats that about? What are you fucking crazy?...............your loving Uncle.......  ...Uncle Rich


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## V Player (Mar 7, 2005)

God I love reading his stuff.....GO RICH!!!


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## busyLivin (Mar 7, 2005)

Rich46yo said:
			
		

> Did anybody ever entertain the notion that we "create God" and "heaven" out of fear of the unknown of death? Or, to comfort us in witness to the inhumanities of humanity?
> 
> And maybe we invented Hell in order to keep a majority of the unwashed masses in decent social order. Sort of like a chimpanzee troop kicking out the one jagoff chimp that keeps fucking up. And while I'm at it with chimps did you know we share 97% of the same DNA with chimps? The reason for that is we both branched off from a common ancestor 6 millions years ago on the plains of east central Africa. Wheres that in your Adam and Eve book?
> 
> ...


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## LW83 (Mar 7, 2005)

Neither are right.


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## Vieope (Mar 7, 2005)

LW83 said:
			
		

> Neither are right.


_If you say solipsism, I am going to sue you. _


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## busyLivin (Mar 7, 2005)

LW83 said:
			
		

> Neither are right.




correction, you believe neither are right.


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## LW83 (Mar 7, 2005)

busyLivin said:
			
		

> correction, you believe neither are right.



The kicker is, you beleive that you're right.


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## John H. (Mar 8, 2005)

Rich46yo said:
			
		

> Did anybody ever entertain the notion that we "create God" and "heaven" out of fear of the unknown of death? Or, to comfort us in witness to the inhumanities of humanity?
> 
> And maybe we invented Hell in order to keep a majority of the unwashed masses in decent social order. Sort of like a chimpanzee troop kicking out the one jagoff chimp that keeps fucking up. And while I'm at it with chimps did you know we share 97% of the same DNA with chimps? The reason for that is we both branched off from a common ancestor 6 millions years ago on the plains of east central Africa. Wheres that in your Adam and Eve book?
> 
> ...



Hi Rich,

You raise some good points and questions.

Too many "just accept" what they either hear and/or are told and do not check things out for themselves from all perspectives objectively. Many are just like the mice that run and run and run and run in that little cage their whole life...  and do not see anything else that life does have to offer.

Take Care, John H.


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## Big Smoothy (Mar 8, 2005)

Only a fool would think the Earth was created in seven days.


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## busyLivin (Mar 8, 2005)

Mr_Snafu said:
			
		

> Only a fool would think the Earth was created in seven days.



Actually, only a fool would claim to KNOW or discount what did or did not happen.


Everything Rich said is a matter of opinion...the usual atheistic response... nothing groundbreaking was said here, folks.


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## Decker (Mar 9, 2005)

I don't think evolution and god are mutually exclusive.  I think that anyone believing that the Bible is the inerrant word of God is deluding himself.  Consider: Abraham was told by God to sacrifice his son, a God who directs, "though shalt not kill" then proceeds to smite entire villages leaving no person, child or creature alive, a prince of peace who orders his disciples to bring his enemies before him in order to slay them.  I think it's time to go upside god's head.  Incidentally, I do admire some of the teachings of Christ. 

It is of interest that to some of you true believers, evolution is a fiction yet Darwinian selection is a grand old system for society.  No contradiction there.  After all, Christ implored his followers to permit the weeding out of the weak...every man for himself...let the strong flourish.


 Also, regarding the scientific validity of some of the fairy tales in the Bible, that is also a crock.  Please show me the scientific foundation and validity for angels, walking on water, changing water to wine, etc.  You see what you want to see. 

Creationism and popular religion are comforting self delusions in a terrible, beautiful world.


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## Maynard Keenan (Mar 9, 2005)

Read the bible and ye shall see the truth.


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## LW83 (Mar 9, 2005)

Maynard Keenan said:
			
		

> Read the bible and ye shall see the truth.




This is subjective.  There is no truth in anything that doesn't re-occur.


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## Decker (Mar 9, 2005)

Maynard Keenan said:
			
		

> Read the bible and ye shall see the truth.


See, this is what I'm talking about.  What is truth?..hahaha  I don't think truth is the 5000 year old tales of goatherders refined by a priestly caste and portrayed as the autoritative inerrant word of God.  These are creations of man for practical knowledge(for 5000 years ago) and control of the gen. populace.  

I'm a firm believer in life before death.  That has meaning for me.  Promises of glory in heaven after I'm dead smacks of resounding bullshit.  Just keep shoveling shit your whole miserable life and you'll be rewarded on your deathbed with eternal life.  What a deal.


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## John H. (Mar 9, 2005)

Decker said:
			
		

> See, this is what I'm talking about.  What is truth?..hahaha  I don't think truth is the 5000 year old tales of goatherders refined by a priestly caste and portrayed as the autoritative inerrant word of God.  These are creations of man for practical knowledge(for 5000 years ago) and control of the gen. populace.
> 
> I'm a firm believer in life before death.  That has meaning for me.  Promises of glory in heaven after I'm dead smacks of resounding bullshit.  Just keep shoveling shit your whole miserable life and you'll be rewarded on your deathbed with eternal life.  What a deal.



Hi Decker,

Life IS TO BE ENJOYED AND UNDERSTOOD AND APPRECIATED AND LIVED not throddled or strangled which is what "religion" does all the time.

The Bible is a collection of literature - short stories, poems, prose, etc. WRITTEN BY MEN - over 40 and over a long period of time each with their own viewpoint. God - the real one and truthful one - SPEAKS FOR HIMSELF AND HIMSELF. He never has others speak for Him or put words into His mouth.

Take Care, John H.


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## Maynard Keenan (Mar 9, 2005)

Decker said:
			
		

> See, this is what I'm talking about.  What is truth?..hahaha  I don't think truth is the 5000 year old tales of goatherders refined by a priestly caste and portrayed as the autoritative inerrant word of God.  These are creations of man for practical knowledge(for 5000 years ago) and control of the gen. populace.
> 
> I'm a firm believer in life before death.  That has meaning for me.  Promises of glory in heaven after I'm dead smacks of resounding bullshit.  Just keep shoveling shit your whole miserable life and you'll be rewarded on your deathbed with eternal life.  What a deal.


  Hey im a committed person to friends and family.  Just caught my wife cheating on me so im starting to question it myself lately.  It seems good people finish last in this world.  (why would that be)


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## LW83 (Mar 9, 2005)

Decker said:
			
		

> Just keep shoveling shit your whole miserable life and you'll be rewarded on your deathbed with eternal life.  What a deal.



What? you mean like 77 virgins?  O wait, that's not christianity.  My bad.  I get the two confused sometimes.


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## Decker (Mar 9, 2005)

Maynard Keenan said:
			
		

> Hey im a committed person to friends and family. Just caught my wife cheating on me so im starting to question it myself lately. It seems good people finish last in this world. (why would that be)


I'm sorry that your wife did that to you.  I hope you come out of it a stronger man.  Life is not just.  Live it with abandon though...and strength.  Good luck Maynard.


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## busyLivin (Mar 9, 2005)

I find it comical how people here are talking so matter-of-factly.  

By all means.. state what you believe, but don't for a second assume that you know the absolute truth.. what God would & would not do, what the Bible is or isn't, or suggest that 80% of the world is dillusional, believing in, as one said, 'bullshit'.  

No one KNOWS anything, this is a matter of belief... that includes atheism. 

Also, just because you don't believe in something, putting down someone else because of it is ridiculous. I've seen John H. several times ask people not to offend him regarding certain subjects.. children, his service, etc.. yet when it comes to religion, he has no problem ripping into many people's most charished beliefs.  Hypocrisy, John H.


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## Maynard Keenan (Mar 9, 2005)

Decker said:
			
		

> I'm sorry that your wife did that to you.  I hope you come out of it a stronger man.  Life is not just.  Live it with abandon though...and strength.  Good luck Maynard.


  Thanks  I appreciate it.


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## Decker (Mar 9, 2005)

busyLivin said:
			
		

> By all means.. state what you believe, but don't for a second assume that you know the absolute truth.. what God would & would not do, what the Bible is or isn't, or suggest that 80% of the world is dillusional, believing in, as one said, 'bullshit'.
> 
> No one KNOWS anything, this is a matter of belief... that includes atheism.


I told you what I believe in...life before death.  Not some decadent religion whose life denying focus hits payoff after you croak.  Who said anything about absolute truth.  When it comes to questions of ontology, I don't roll over for fairy tales b/c they assuage my everpresent existential discomfort, i.e., I don't bullshit myself to feel better.

You are wrong.  We humans know a lot of things...look at science, philosophy, hell even rhetorical debate is a useful knowledge...I think so anyway.


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## busyLivin (Mar 9, 2005)

Decker said:
			
		

> You are wrong.  We humans know a lot of things...look at science, philosophy, hell even rhetorical debate is a useful knowledge...I think so anyway.



I meant in terms of this debate.  Debate away, but no one KNOWS the answer. Science will never prove it, neither will belief in God.


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## John H. (Mar 9, 2005)

Maynard Keenan said:
			
		

> Hey im a committed person to friends and family.  Just caught my wife cheating on me so im starting to question it myself lately.  It seems good people finish last in this world.  (why would that be)



Hi Maynard,

That is always tough. Yes, you can look to yourself but you also need to look at the WHOLE picture too. It just could be that she has found someone else and that has absolutely nothing to do with you at all - it just could be. It does happen. YOU may have had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. I agree good people do seem to "finish last" but I can tell you I would never change being a good person because of that because a good person knows what is good and what is not. If you try (meaning anyone here) to "live up to" the "standards of this world" you would be very wrong because much of those "standards" are based on pure bull and not at all true or right. 

People who REALLY LOVE AND APPRECIATE you for you will always BE. Those that are against you you would want to be away from anyway. It is a waste of your precious time here on this earth to try to "change" what is not meant to be. You can love someone but you can not make them love you if they really do not. And you would not want that anyway. 

There are many people out there that will truly care about you. Focus on that.

Take Care, John H.


----------



## John H. (Mar 9, 2005)

LW83 said:
			
		

> What? you mean like 77 virgins?  O wait, that's not christianity.  My bad.  I get the two confused sometimes.



Hi Luke,

There is not a whole hell of a lot of difference. Insanity is insanity. You ARE NOT CONFUSED AT ALL.

Take Care, John H.


----------



## busyLivin (Mar 9, 2005)

John H. said:
			
		

> Hi Maynard,
> 
> That is always tough. Yes, you can look to yourself but you also need to look at the WHOLE picture too. It just could be that she has found someone else and that has absolutely nothing to do with you at all - it just could be. It does happen. YOU may have had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. I agree good people do seem to "finish last" but I can tell you I would never change being a good person because of that because a good person knows what is good and what is not. If you try (meaning anyone here) to "live up to" the "standards of this world" you would be very wrong because much of those "standards" are based on pure bull and not at all true or right.
> 
> ...



well said


----------



## busyLivin (Mar 9, 2005)

John H. said:
			
		

> Hi Luke,
> 
> There is not a whole hell of a lot of difference. Insanity is insanity. You ARE NOT CONFUSED AT ALL.
> 
> Take Care, John H.



not well said


----------



## Decker (Mar 9, 2005)

busyLivin said:
			
		

> I meant in terms of this debate. Debate away, but no one KNOWS the answer. Science will never proove it, neither will belief in God.


I know you meant that.  I was awkwardly making the point that we have knowledge which can, in spite of empirical proof--something much like the quandry string theory faces for example-- provide us with a reasonable foundation for making certain claims regarding our origins.  Granted, as far as epistemology goes, these discussions, for the moment, are limited to the province of reasoned debate---like you'd said, no true scientific proof.  I agree with you.  But the poll did state that the 'Bible will never be wrong' and I think that's an affront to any thinking person.... I mean how do you know?  B/c the bible says so is circular.


----------



## John H. (Mar 9, 2005)

busyLivin said:
			
		

> I find it comical how people here are talking so matter-of-factly.
> 
> By all means.. state what you believe, but don't for a second assume that you know the absolute truth.. what God would & would not do, what the Bible is or isn't, or suggest that 80% of the world is dillusional, believing in, as one said, 'bullshit'.
> 
> ...



Hi Busy,

You would NEVER hear from me on this IF IT WERE NOT FOR "RELIGION" being after me and those of the same. Here's the thing: if you have someone standing in front of you threatening you personally you will defend yourself. I am only doing that very same thing. I am responding to what "RELIGION" does and is doing. And what they are doing is NOT based on fact at all. 

If you "choose" to "believe" in whatever that is entirely up to you. BUT when those "beliefs" of yours effect me in any way especially in any forceful manner which is what "religion" does it IS a direct threat to me and my person and my absolute right to my life and living. If someone wants to "believe" something that is entirely up to them and I have no problem with it. But when they actively approach me with that and I find what they are saying is wrong and I tell them about that and they still threaten me I will defend myself always against those threats in whatever fashion or mode they come in.

"Cherished beliefs" MUST ALWAYS BE TRUTHFUL AND ACCURATE AND HONEST. To just "believe" means nothing and is falsehood.  To believe" that is fine FOR YOU but when YOU FORCE yourself on to others that is where the line is crossed and anyone would have a absolute right to defend themselves in whatever manner would be appropriate. 

For others - who do NOT know me in any fashion to attempt to smear me by saying that I abuse children (which IS A TOTAL LIE and I WOULD NEVER NOR WOULD I EVER CONDONE IN ANY MANNER BY ANYONE!!!!) and to question my service to my country which I did honorably under extreme war conditions - damn straight I will say something!!!! And RIGHTLY SO. 

If you THREATEN ME OR ATTACK ME  OR ATTEMPT TO (meaning anyone here) I will defend myself. I would expect that anyone would because that is a basic thing in life to defend oneself. It is NOT hypocrisy at all.


I do see a lot of dillusion in this world especially with regard to "religioius belief". There is evidence of it everywhere. People are desperate and desperate people do desperate things even when it involes their own self-destruction. There are a lot of very unhappy people in this world and they are even willing to grasp at anything - regardless of any actual truthfullness - to gain some kind of "relief"... "Religion" PREYS on these people.


Take Care, John H.


----------



## seven11 (Mar 9, 2005)

how do we know what the truth is, how we supposed to know what god wants from us and what god said to us.... the kuran and bible and other hole books carry gods words but how we supposed to interped it corectly if we dont realy under stand it... see in my opinion we miss understood god because we dont understand god, because we aint gods we're only human.... we cant understand dogs... why ....because we aint dogs.....
we cant undertands cat why?.... because we aint cats

peace and love hehe

7-11


----------



## Maynard Keenan (Mar 9, 2005)

John H. said:
			
		

> Hi Maynard,
> 
> That is always tough. Yes, you can look to yourself but you also need to look at the WHOLE picture too. It just could be that she has found someone else and that has absolutely nothing to do with you at all - it just could be. It does happen. YOU may have had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. I agree good people do seem to "finish last" but I can tell you I would never change being a good person because of that because a good person knows what is good and what is not. If you try (meaning anyone here) to "live up to" the "standards of this world" you would be very wrong because much of those "standards" are based on pure bull and not at all true or right.
> 
> ...


  Thanks John.  The fact is I did catch her cheating and with a very unattractive scrawny little weasel?  I dont get it and she calls everynight crying on my voice mail.  I do love her more then anything.  We also have an adorable 2 1/2 year old son together.  He was also born deaf.  Basically I put every pain or hurt into the gym.  She really hurt me though.  Married 4 1/2 years.  Whats funny is she was so controlling and possesive it wasnt even funny.  Now I think I know why.


----------



## John H. (Mar 10, 2005)

seven11 said:
			
		

> how do we know what the truth is, how we supposed to know what god wants from us and what god said to us.... the kuran and bible and other hole books carry gods words but how we supposed to interped it corectly if we dont realy under stand it... see in my opinion we miss understood god because we dont understand god, because we aint gods we're only human.... we cant understand dogs... why ....because we aint dogs.....
> we cant undertands cat why?.... because we aint cats
> 
> peace and love hehe
> ...




Hi Seven,

You are right actually. 

"Truth"? It is something we all have to search for but hopefully we all will do that honestly and sincerely and accurately - it is something you do lifelong. Many times the "truth" surrounds us and we are so "into" our searching we do not see the woods for the trees. In Nature there is a LOT of truth but most just ignore the messages that surround us all. Or even feel they are not truthful when in fact they are and even subtle (sounds like "suttle"). 

BEING a good person inside and treating others as you would want others to treat you is a big part of things. As long as each of us MIStreat we can expect to be MIStreated.

The Koran, The Bible, etc. - they are all MANS thoughts and words written down in an effort to answer the "UNanswerable". MANS attempt. I feel God is around us all all the time in Nature and the Natural world but most of us completely ignore the messages there. The American Indians were very in tune with Nature and the Natural World and understood its importance and meaning to life and living. Look what we did to them.

Take Care, John H.


----------



## John H. (Mar 10, 2005)

Maynard Keenan said:
			
		

> Thanks John.  The fact is I did catch her cheating and with a very unattractive scrawny little weasel?  I dont get it and she calls everynight crying on my voice mail.  I do love her more then anything.  We also have an adorable 2 1/2 year old son together.  He was also born deaf.  Basically I put every pain or hurt into the gym.  She really hurt me though.  Married 4 1/2 years.  Whats funny is she was so controlling and possesive it wasnt even funny.  Now I think I know why.



Hi Maynard,

First, the most helpful thing you can do IS working your ass off in the gym BECAUSE this will help you get the anger out of you and put that energy to GOOD use - DEVELOPING YOURSELF EVEN BETTER. The end result of that is YOU WILL GET EVEN BETTER health-wise overall. 

Second, this helps you to clear your head and see things AS THEY REALLY ARE. You can NOT force someone to love you. If they do not they will not. Even if YOU love THEM to "pieces". It could be that THAT ALONE might be something that will drive them away. Everyone is different. People react differently to everything. I know this - you have a son you LOVE. He WILL KNOW THAT FOR SURE no matter what happens between you and your wife. 

You can try to give your wife a chance and see what the problems may be - look at ALL sides of it HONESTLY. Hear what she might be saying to you and see if there is any truth to it. BE HONEST. She also may be someone who wants everything HER way or no way. Certainly SHE has put the seed of doubt about herself in your mind now by HER actions. 

As for HER controlling that IS ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD. Some of that is ok but too much IS TOO MUCH and something you can NOT live with - nor your son.

THINK HARD about it ALL from ALL sides of it. It could be that you will have to move on. But you son will always BE your son and he will love you as you love him - he will know that because you will let him KNOW that. Don't try to force the issue - HE WILL SEE things for what they really are HIMSELF. Just make damn sure he knows you love him.

Take Care, John H.


----------



## Maynard Keenan (Mar 10, 2005)

John H. said:
			
		

> Hi Maynard,
> 
> First, the most helpful thing you can do IS working your ass off in the gym BECAUSE this will help you get the anger out of you and put that energy to GOOD use - DEVELOPING YOURSELF EVEN BETTER. The end result of that is YOU WILL GET EVEN BETTER health-wise overall.
> 
> ...


  Thanks for the advice.  It has been a very difficult past 2 months.  If she would stop calling me crying it would be easier.  Cause every couple weeks I break and I go sleep with her and kick myself after.  Another bad thing is I think shes one of the hottest women I have ever seen too.  (sucks bad)


----------



## seven11 (Mar 10, 2005)

i agree with u 100% on that John


----------



## maniclion (Mar 10, 2005)

There are infinite gods who created the evolution of new gods, it's a vicious cycle, humans will one day be gods and create universes and dimensions of dementia just as our creator has done, maybe it'll just be a virtual world of electrons, protons and neutrons all neatly arranged to form different forces, energies, shapes and forms but wait isn't that the way it is now?


----------



## John H. (Mar 10, 2005)

Maynard Keenan said:
			
		

> Thanks for the advice.  It has been a very difficult past 2 months.  If she would stop calling me crying it would be easier.  Cause every couple weeks I break and I go sleep with her and kick myself after.  Another bad thing is I think shes one of the hottest women I have ever seen too.  (sucks bad)



Hi Maynard,

I DO understand. Being "...one of the hottest women..." (at least physically) is not the WHOLE package. You want someone who is good at heart and soul, all else follows. 

If she is playing you she is. You are going to have to figure out if that is true or not because you do not want your life made more miserable. It is not an easy thing to do many times. Sometimes time can help and sometimes it can be harmful too.

KEEP WORKING OUT DAMN HARD though because that WILL KEEP YOU ON TRACK. And will help you make good decisions.

HANG IN THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take Care, John H.


----------



## Maynard Keenan (Mar 10, 2005)

John H. said:
			
		

> Hi Maynard,
> 
> I DO understand. Being "...one of the hottest women..." (at least physically) is not the WHOLE package. You want someone who is good at heart and soul, all else follows.
> 
> ...


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 10, 2005)

maniclion said:
			
		

> There are infinite gods who created the evolution of new gods, it's a vicious cycle, humans will one day be gods and create universes and dimensions of dementia just as our creator has done, maybe it'll just be a virtual world of electrons, protons and neutrons all neatly arranged to form different forces, energies, shapes and forms but wait isn't that the way it is now?


thats an interesting point of view. where did you get it?


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 10, 2005)

Decker said:
			
		

> Also, regarding the scientific validity of some of the fairy tales in the Bible, that is also a crock. Please show me the scientific foundation and validity for angels, walking on water, changing water to wine, etc. You see what you want to see.
> 
> Creationism and popular religion are comforting self delusions in a terrible, beautiful world.


because science is as yet unable to explain a certain phenomenon you will not believe it.  thats ridiculous, ask any scientist, there are so many things out there that we as yet do not have explanations for yet undoubtedly happen.


----------



## maniclion (Mar 10, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> thats an interesting point of view. where did you get it?


I think about it all of the time, as we get deeper and deeper into decoding the micro universe we in turn understand the macro so therefore it's all relative in both directions infinitely.


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 10, 2005)

agreed. i heard a quote one time.  

as man now is, God once was
as God now is, man may become


----------



## seven11 (Mar 10, 2005)

maniclion said:
			
		

> There are infinite gods who created the evolution of new gods, it's a vicious cycle, humans will one day be gods and create universes and dimensions of dementia just as our creator has done, maybe it'll just be a virtual world of electrons, protons and neutrons all neatly arranged to form different forces, energies, shapes and forms but wait isn't that the way it is now?




thats interesting, but see not all people are the same what bout hitler? wont he be punished and what bout mother teresa she will get the same at the end as everyone else so there is no judgment day


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 10, 2005)

it seems if God was to create other Gods they would have to develop the same characteristics God has.  I hardly feel hitler would qualify under this criteria.  his thoughts on God creating Gods does not destroy the need for a judgement at all.


----------



## maniclion (Mar 10, 2005)

seven11 said:
			
		

> thats interesting, but see not all people are the same what bout hitler? wont he be punished and what bout mother teresa she will get the same at the end as everyone else so there is no judgment day


Your flaw is that your viewing individuals and not the whole picture, for humans to become the new gods it'll take the work of our entire existence, from the discovery of fire to the first entity built by man from raw elements encoded with the right programming.


----------



## Decker (Mar 10, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> because science is as yet unable to explain a certain phenomenon you will not believe it. thats ridiculous, ask any scientist, there are so many things out there that we as yet do not have explanations for yet undoubtedly happen.


I never claimed that science provides the only valid knowledge--that's patently absurd....just as believing in the literal interpretation of obvious metaphorical stories is absurd.  Presently, science cannot explain everything, nor do I believe we'll ever have a totally unified understanding of existence that is subject to scientific scrutiny.  From that, religion is a necessary feature of everyone's life--whether they admit it or not.....it fills the gap of not knowing (i.e., faith).  But there's a huge difference between authentic religious impulse and the rote crapola that passes as profound religious doctrine.

By the way, I brought up the science angle b/c some people posted statements to the effect that the Bible is scientifically accurate--once again, pure drivel.  How about the Iliad or Little Red Riding Hood--they are scientifically accurate also...whatever that means.


----------



## GOD (Mar 10, 2005)

You are confused little men.


----------



## bio-chem (Mar 10, 2005)

i hardly consider the iliad the same as the bible. and just because there are things science cannot explain does not make it scientifically in-accurate. in makes science in-adequate


----------



## GOD (Mar 10, 2005)

*I Have An Announcement To Make.*
























I am.

If there are any questions, please contact me through prayer between 9pm and 10pm.


----------



## John H. (Mar 11, 2005)

Maynard Keenan said:
			
		

> John H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## LW83 (Mar 11, 2005)

GOD said:
			
		

> I am.



_
Dead_


----------



## Eggs (Mar 13, 2005)

Sooo, tell me Luke... how does a God die? 

I could understand someone saying "there is a god" or "there isnt a god", but I have to admit it is quite humorous every time I hear it.

I personally say "there isnt a God", though its an open belief willing to change upon further investigation of the subject, because realistically, I dont have evidence for or against it.

However, unless you are the one human on earth that has proof otherwise, I'd dare say that you dont know one way or another.

Unless you're using the term metaphorically for something we worship.  In which case, I can guarantee you the God of Money is alive and well


----------



## busyLivin (Mar 13, 2005)

Eggs said:
			
		

> However, unless you are the one human on earth that has proof otherwise, I'd dare say that you dont know one way or another.



Exactly.


----------



## LW83 (Mar 13, 2005)

Clapton's still alive and well


----------



## Eggs (Mar 13, 2005)

For the time being 

So thats the roots of your philosophy?  God is Dead, but Clapton is alive...

I'm sure there are some who would call that profound, and I'm sure they own all his albums


----------



## Arnold (Jun 18, 2005)

don't expect a reply from Lukey boy.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Jun 18, 2005)

What happened to puke, I mean Luke?


----------



## god hand (Jun 18, 2005)

Crono1000 said:
			
		

> both


Yes Crono1000, your right as usual.


----------



## god hand (Jun 18, 2005)

maniclion said:
			
		

> You forgot the option: Neither, we are just one big SIMS game.


Not thats funny!


----------



## Vieope (Jun 18, 2005)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> What happened to puke, I mean Luke?


_Yeah, what happened to Luke? _


----------



## GFR (Jun 18, 2005)

God  it's just simple tricks and nonsense.


----------



## god hand (Jun 18, 2005)

Mr_Snafu said:
			
		

> Only a fool would think the Earth was created in seven days.


Well u know.........I think that GOD can create a planet in seven days. Hmmm.....guess u never throght about that. Idiot.


----------



## Arnold (Jun 18, 2005)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> What happened to puke, I mean Luke?



His mommy and daddy never taught him to respect authority.


----------



## Vieope (Jun 18, 2005)

_You people better start respecting yellow hand.   _


----------



## The Monkey Man (Jun 18, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Well u know.........I think that GOD can create a planet in seven days. Hmmm.....guess u never throght about that. Idiot.


 
*Lightning Strike or similar event= "GOD"*






^^GODHAND^^


----------



## Dale Mabry (Jun 18, 2005)

scandalous, when is the funeral V?


----------



## Arnold (Jun 18, 2005)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _You people better start respecting yellow hand.   _



yup! or I will slap you with my yellow hand!


----------



## Vieope (Jun 18, 2005)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> yup! or I will slap you with my yellow hand!


----------



## Vieope (Jun 18, 2005)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> scandalous, when is the funeral V?


_Funeral for Luke, you say? _


----------



## The Monkey Man (Jun 18, 2005)

V...  you bring the Brazilian chix...

I'll take the ones w/the little bootys


----------



## GFR (Oct 30, 2005)

Bible will never be wrong. God created all.  	   	31 votes 	48.44%
Darwin is right. we r nothing but just a result of evolution 	33 votes 	51.56%


*I'm proud of the people here....51.56%* as of Oct 30 2005....take stock in science over superstition...thats great but as a species we still have a long way to go.


----------



## busyLivin (Oct 30, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Bible will never be wrong. God created all.  	   	31 votes 	48.44%
> Darwin is right. we r nothing but just a result of evolution 	33 votes 	51.56%
> 
> 
> *I'm proud of the people here....51.56%* as of Oct 30 2005....take stock in science over superstition...thats great but as a species we still have a long way to go.



As a species, it's ~90% for the _Big Man. _ Quite a long way to go, indeed


----------



## BigDyl (Oct 30, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Bible will never be wrong. God created all.  	   	31 votes 	48.44%
> Darwin is right. we r nothing but just a result of evolution 	33 votes 	51.56%
> 
> 
> *I'm proud of the people here....51.56%* as of Oct 30 2005....take stock in science over superstition...thats great but as a species we still have a long way to go.


----------



## GFR (Oct 30, 2005)

busyLivin said:
			
		

> As a species, it's ~90% for the _Big Man. _ Quite a long way to go, indeed


Yes......well most of the world is far less educated and enlightened than the average IM member


----------



## SubliminalX (Oct 30, 2005)

There's an intermediate option as well:  the guided evolution theory, i.e. God "creates" things by using pre-existing species as the raw material.  If living beings are created out of thin air, man would never be able comprehend the basis of how life progresses, how cells function and can change, how disease develops, and therefore medicine would not exist.  

I've never understood why so many believe evolution and religious belief are mutually exclusive.  I think religious fundamentalism is a slap to God's face, whichever God you believe in (if any).  God gave humans the ability to learn, rationalize, and reason so as we can understand the world we live in and use that information to help ourselves and others (and hurt each other in some cases, unfortunately).  To reject the gift of intellect is to reject the creator, IMO.

And lastly, I'd bet those who vote for God option tend not to be college educated.


----------



## GFR (Oct 30, 2005)

busyLivin said:
			
		

> As a species, it's ~90% for the _Big Man. _ Quite a long way to go, indeed


 





Quoted at 16% here so *probably 20-25% or so in reality*.....Religions esp Christianity do not count members who become atheist/agnostic or change to another religion..


----------



## brogers (Oct 30, 2005)

Because evolution has a strong basis in science? 

They both have very little evidence.  Only difference is, you place your faith in some scientists who say somehow, by chance, life was randomly created, and that single celled organisms, somehow over time turned into the wonderous entity that is the human body, instead of believing a creator designed and intended it.  So drop the superiority complex, it really makes me want to puke.


----------



## GFR (Oct 30, 2005)

The scientists don't have to prove anything for me and the other 1.476 Billion  Humans to know that superstition is pathetic.


----------



## busyLivin (Oct 30, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Quoted at 16% here so *probably 20-25% or so in reality*.....Religions esp Christianity do not count members who become atheist/agnostic or change to another religion..


Same pie chart I saw... says of the 16%,  half are theistic but not religious. I gave you 2%.


----------



## GFR (Oct 30, 2005)

busyLivin said:
			
		

> Same pie chart I saw... says of the 16%,  half are theistic, but not religious. I gave you 2%.


*Its not for you to give*


----------



## themamasan (Oct 30, 2005)

In the end, the winners of the God/Evolution debate will be the ones who believe in God.


----------



## GFR (Oct 30, 2005)

themamasan said:
			
		

> In the end, the winners of the God/Evolution debate will be the ones who believe in God.


                                                                                   
Or Santa


----------



## themamasan (Oct 30, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Or Santa



Santa?  How can he win?


----------



## BigDyl (Oct 30, 2005)

brogers said:
			
		

> Because evolution has a strong basis in science?
> 
> They both have very little evidence.  Only difference is, you place your faith in some scientists who say somehow, by chance, life was randomly created, and that single celled organisms, somehow over time turned into the wonderous entity that is the human body, instead of believing a creator designed and intended it.  So drop the superiority complex, it really makes me want to puke.



It's called cosmic membrane theory now.


----------



## SuperFlex (Oct 30, 2005)

Evolution is the most idiotic thing mankind has ever *thought *up... 

Vaginal secretions were not formed from two rocks slammin together!!!

God made those! What a freakin genius!!!!!!!!!

btw, save yourself for marraige. Or God will evolve you into a mutant. Or at least your penis...


----------



## SubliminalX (Oct 30, 2005)

brogers said:
			
		

> Because evolution has a strong basis in science?
> 
> They both have very little evidence.  Only difference is, you place your faith in some scientists who say somehow, by chance, life was randomly created, and that single celled organisms, somehow over time turned into the wonderous entity that is the human body, instead of believing a creator designed and intended it.  So drop the superiority complex, it really makes me want to puke.



Another person who is mistaken about what the "theory of evolution" entails.  All the theory does is provide an educated guess to explain the origins of living organisms, by filling in the blanks little by little.  Sure, it can never be proven in a controlled setting that a monkey can evolve into a modern man.  But there is undisputable evidence that DNA can change, giving new functions to cells.  There is undisputable evidence that there is a high degree of DNA sequence matches between certain species.  There is undisputable fossil evidence that humanoid species existed which have characteristics somewhere in between monkey and modern day man.  And given the fact that multicellular organisms only arise from pre-existing organisms through reproduction, putting all this together to try to complete a puzzle = the theory of evolution.     

Does it prove modern man evolved from monkeys without a shadow of a doubt?  Of course not.  But at least it's based on rational thought and evidence -- that the potential for genetic change and speciation exists.  What evidence is there supporting that the flying spaghetti monster exists and has some special power?


----------



## SubliminalX (Oct 30, 2005)

themamasan said:
			
		

> In the end, the winners of the God/Evolution debate will be the ones who believe in God.



Only if they're absolutely right about who or what God is.  It's mankind's arrogance to think he knows what his mind truly cannot comphrehend.


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Oct 30, 2005)

themamasan said:
			
		

> In the end, the winners of the God/Evolution debate will be the ones who believe in God.


 Actually, depending on which religion is right (almost all of them say if you believe a different religion you go to hell) anywere from 1-30% win.


----------



## GFR (Oct 30, 2005)

SuperFlex said:
			
		

> *Evolution is the most idiotic thing mankind has ever thought *up...
> 
> Vaginal secretions were not formed from two rocks slammin together!!!
> 
> ...


*nope..........this is the most idiotic*


----------



## MyK (Oct 30, 2005)

themamasan said:
			
		

> In the end, the winners of the God/Evolution debate will be the ones who believe in God.



go fucking prey


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Oct 30, 2005)

MyK said:
			
		

> go fucking prey


*
 prey*  (pr
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
_n._ 
An animal hunted or caught for food; quarry.
 One that is defenseless, especially in the face of attack; a victim.
 The act or practice of preying. 
 The grammar Nazi strikes again!


----------



## SuperFlex (Oct 30, 2005)

ihateschoolmt said:
			
		

> Actually, depending on which religion is right (almost all of them say if you believe a different religion you go to hell) anywere from 1-30% win.


Actually the HOLY BIBLE says that a man will be judged according to the standard he lived his life out through in some cases. Yes if you are taught about Christ and reject His teachings or that He is the way you WILL  ... Even if you live well through other teachings and at a high moral standard. If you have seen His truth and yet choose to reject His truth then you have made your decision. Those of us here have ALL been given or are now given this opportunity...

However MANY will NEVER hear of Him before it's their time to move on. In such cases God will judge accordingly. If a man lived a moral life and was pure of heart he will surely see heaven gates. Even moreso he will enter in. It's not by works that we will be judged (thank GOD!) but when someone has no way of knowing Christ personally it's a different story. He neither will be judged by his works but according to the condition of his heart of hearts....... Is he full of the dark or the light?... You shine one or the other. Knowingly or not...


----------



## GFR (Oct 30, 2005)

ihateschoolmt said:
			
		

> *
> prey*  (pr
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MyK (Oct 30, 2005)




----------



## ihateschoolmt (Oct 30, 2005)

SuperFlex said:
			
		

> Actually the HOLY BIBLE says that a man will be judged according to the standard he lived in life out through. Yes if you are taught about Christ and reject His teachings or that He is the way you WILL  ... Even if you live well through other teachings and at a high moral standard. If you have seen His truth and yet choose to reject His truth then you have made your decision. Those of us here have ALL been given or are now given this opportunity...
> 
> However MANY will NEVER hear of Him before it's their time to move on. In such cases God will judge accordingly. If a man lived a moral life and was pure of heart he will surely see heaven gates. Even moreso he will enter in. It's not by works that we will be judged (thank GOD!) but when someone has no way of knowing Christ personally it's a different story. He neither will be judged by his works but according to the condition of his heart of hearts....... Is he full of the dark or the light?... You shine one or the other. Knowingly or not...


 Ok, 1- to like 40%. happy?


----------



## SuperFlex (Oct 30, 2005)

ihateschoolmt said:
			
		

> Ok, 1- to like 40%. happy?


  Probably more like 1-15% man...


----------



## MyK (Oct 30, 2005)

ihateschoolmt said:
			
		

> *
> prey*  (pr
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MyK (Oct 30, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

>


    

how was I owned?


----------



## SuperFlex (Oct 30, 2005)

MyK said:
			
		

>


ONE DAY THAT BABY WILL BE SPINNING IN CIRCLES!


----------



## GFR (Oct 30, 2005)

MyK said:
			
		

> how was I owned?


http://www.birds-of-prey.org/


----------



## MyK (Oct 30, 2005)

oh i see, I spelt a word wrong! boy is my face red!


----------



## GFR (Oct 30, 2005)

MyK said:
			
		

> oh i see, I spelt a word wrong! boy is my face red!


----------



## MyK (Oct 30, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> http://www.birds-of-prey.org/


----------



## GFR (Oct 30, 2005)

MyK said:
			
		

>


----------



## MyK (Oct 30, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

>


----------



## GFR (Oct 30, 2005)

MyK said:
			
		

>


----------



## SuperFlex (Oct 30, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

>


Now you've gone too far...


----------



## GFR (Oct 30, 2005)

SuperFlex said:
			
		

> Now you've gone too far...


----------



## SuperFlex (Oct 30, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

>


Of course not! Everybody enjoys a good weiner roast...


----------



## lnvanry (Oct 30, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

>


----------



## MyK (Oct 30, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

>


----------



## MyK (Oct 30, 2005)

lnvanry said:
			
		

>




whats the big space for?


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Oct 30, 2005)

MyK said:
			
		

>


----------



## MyK (Oct 30, 2005)

ihateschoolmt said:
			
		

>


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Oct 30, 2005)

MyK said:
			
		

>


 Green day makes shitty music, who cares what they think.


----------



## MyK (Oct 30, 2005)

ihateschoolmt said:
			
		

> Green day makes shitty music, who cares what they think.



I was responding to your post! read what the albums called!


----------



## GFR (Oct 30, 2005)

MyK said:
			
		

>


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Oct 30, 2005)

MyK said:
			
		

> I was responding to your post! read what the albums called!


 I know.


----------



## themamasan (Oct 30, 2005)

ihateschoolmt said:
			
		

> Actually, depending on which religion is right (almost all of them say if you believe a different religion you go to hell) anywere from 1-30% win.



Yes, the Bible says that you should not follow the denominations of men (which are the religions that have come about over the thousands of years)...But follow Christ's Church.

Even those that believe in God might not make it to Heaven (if there is Heaven).  That was not my point. 

Here is my point:

1.  If there is a God, the people who don't believe will burn in Hell (they have no chance)
2.  If there isn't a God, everyone will simply cease to exist when they die.

Who has something to lose?


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Oct 30, 2005)

themamasan said:
			
		

> Yes, the Bible says that you should not follow the denominations of men (which are the religions that have come about over the thousands of years)...But follow Christ's Church.
> 
> Even those that believe in God might not make it to Heaven (if there is Heaven).  That was not my point.
> 
> ...


 Oh, I already said that in another thread actually. The response I got was something about loosing your pride believing in something you know wasn't true.


----------



## SuperFlex (Oct 30, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

>


You have that bumper sticker don't you...


----------



## gococksDJS (Oct 30, 2005)

SubliminalX said:
			
		

> Another person who is mistaken about what the "theory of evolution" entails. All the theory does is provide an educated guess to explain the origins of living organisms, by filling in the blanks little by little. Sure, it can never be proven in a controlled setting that a monkey can evolve into a modern man. But there is undisputable evidence that DNA can change, giving new functions to cells. There is undisputable evidence that there is a high degree of DNA sequence matches between certain species. There is undisputable fossil evidence that humanoid species existed which have characteristics somewhere in between monkey and modern day man. And given the fact that multicellular organisms only arise from pre-existing organisms through reproduction, putting all this together to try to complete a puzzle = the theory of evolution.
> 
> Does it prove modern man evolved from monkeys without a shadow of a doubt? Of course not. But at least it's based on rational thought and evidence -- that the potential for genetic change and speciation exists. What evidence is there supporting that the flying spaghetti monster exists and has some special power?


 Yes, but you are also mistaken. The Theory of Evolution deals with natural selection as a means of evolution within a population, not individual organisms. It says nothing about a fish evolving into a bipedal or some other radical jump from one species to another. There was actually a lot of controversy over the fact that Darwin's Origin of Species destroyed the distinction between man and beast. Darwin's theory only states that man and apes have a common ancestor, not that one gave way to the other. There is not a high degree of DNA sequence matches in all species . The more complex the life, the more complex the DNA sequence. About 97-99% of a humans DNA is non-coding or "junk" DNA, meaning that only about 1-3% actually directly code for proteins rather than code through mutation or drift (which non-coding can possibly do).


----------



## Dale Mabry (Oct 30, 2005)

ihateschoolmt said:
			
		

> Oh, I already said that in another thread actually. The response I got was something about loosing your pride believing in something you know wasn't true.




What homo said that?  What you lose is the ability to have fun while you are here.


----------



## MyK (Oct 30, 2005)

SuperFlex said:
			
		

> You have that bumper sticker don't you...



no, his doesn't have canada on it!


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Oct 30, 2005)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> What homo said that?  What you lose is the ability to have fun while you are here.


 The unit said it.


----------



## SuperFlex (Oct 30, 2005)

MyK said:
			
		

> no, his doesn't have canada on it!


My bad man, my bad...


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Oct 30, 2005)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> What you lose is the ability to have fun while you are here.


 Not if your christian... Then you can do whatever you want and just be sorry later.


----------



## gococksDJS (Oct 30, 2005)

themamasan said:
			
		

> Yes, the Bible says that you should not follow the denominations of men (which are the religions that have come about over the thousands of years)...But follow Christ's Church.
> 
> Even those that believe in God might not make it to Heaven (if there is Heaven). That was not my point.
> 
> ...


 See, I don't understand how people can buy into god so deeply. Supposedly God gave us free will, but it's not free will, it's more of a delayed punishment. How can god say "I give you the ability to choose what you want to do with your life, but if you don't live within the boundaries that I set for you, you will suffer an unimaginable eternity in the depths of Hell" It's like prisoners being allowed to leave their cells to go exercise in the yard, but THEY ARE STILL IN PRISON. And my biggest question is what benefit does god get out of all of us falling to our knees to worship him? Does he have a massive ego to feed? Did he create solely so others could praise him? That sounds a little self-centered to me. When I was a kid I ordered some of those sea monkey things. I gave them life but I didn't say "Kiss my ass or im flushing you down the toilet" I'm not trying to offend anyone, im just saying how I see it.


----------



## gococksDJS (Oct 30, 2005)

ihateschoolmt said:
			
		

> Not if your christian... Then you can do whatever you want and just be sorry later.


 EXACTLY!!! Have fun now, but you'll pay like a mother fucker later. It's like watching my dog eat off the table, and me beating his ass 2 weeks later.


----------



## themamasan (Oct 30, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> See, I don't understand how people can buy into god so deeply. Supposedly God gave us free will, but it's not free will, it's more of a delayed punishment. How can god say "I give you the ability to choose what you want to do with your life, but if you don't live within the boundaries that I set for you, you will suffer an unimaginable eternity in the depths of Hell" It's like prisoners being allowed to leave their cells to go exercise in the yard, but THEY ARE STILL IN PRISON. And my biggest question is what benefit does god get out of all of us falling to our knees to worship him? Does he have a massive ego to feed? Did he create solely so others could praise him? That sounds a little self-centered to me. When I was a kid I ordered some of those sea monkey things. I gave them life but I didn't say "Kiss my ass or im flushing you down the toilet" I'm not trying to offend anyone, im just saying how I see it.



There is nothing wrong with saying that.  I feel the same way.  I also feel like if God didn't say that, then the moral standard of our world would probably be so bad that it would indeed be "hell on earth".  If everyone would abide by his will, then we would have a more Utopian society.  Of course that won't happen, and maybe God is just using a scare tactic on us.  Who knows?  No one does until they die...then it could be too late.


----------



## busyLivin (Oct 30, 2005)

ihateschoolmt said:
			
		

> Not if your christian... Then you can do whatever you want and just be sorry later.


that would be missing the point.


----------



## gococksDJS (Oct 30, 2005)

busyLivin said:
			
		

> that would be missing the point.


 How would that be missing the point? If you have to live a certain way or suffer for eternity, you don't actually have free will. You have "Obey me or suffer" will.


----------



## busyLivin (Oct 30, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> How would that be missing the point? If you have to live a certain way or suffer for eternity, you don't actually have free will. You have "Obey me or suffer" will.




Unless I read it wrong, Ihateschool was responding to Dale's statement that following a religion takes the fun out of life by saying we can do whatever we want & be forgiven for it later.

I was saying that being a Christian isn't a "Get Out of Jail Free" card. Forgiveness isn't guaranteed. That's using it, not living it.


----------



## gococksDJS (Oct 30, 2005)

Oh, i see. my bad.


----------



## SubliminalX (Oct 31, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> Yes, but you are also mistaken. The Theory of Evolution deals with natural selection as a means of evolution within a population, not individual organisms. It says nothing about a fish evolving into a bipedal or some other radical jump from one species to another. There was actually a lot of controversy over the fact that Darwin's Origin of Species destroyed the distinction between man and beast. Darwin's theory only states that man and apes have a common ancestor, not that one gave way to the other. There is not a high degree of DNA sequence matches in all species . The more complex the life, the more complex the DNA sequence. About 97-99% of a humans DNA is non-coding or "junk" DNA, meaning that only about 1-3% actually directly code for proteins rather than code through mutation or drift (which non-coding can possibly do).



And natural selection, at least on the cellular level, is demonstratable in a controlled setting.  It's some proof that the macroevolution theory is at least plausible.  There is no similar evidence to support the classical creationist theory of man created out of thin air.  You're right, I mis-spoke it seemed I was talking about one species changing into another in a horizontal fashion.  The "common" ancestor still agrees with my point, that modern man appears to have arisen from pre-existing species with different characteristics.  

Check the homology of coding/functional DNA and protein sequences between humans and primates and other mammals.  Very high for many genes.


----------



## bandaidwoman (Nov 1, 2005)

My real beef is against those who belive intelligent design , creationism etc. should be taught alongside evolution in the classrooms as a alternative "scientific theory".   This is absolutely ridiculous and makes our educational institution even more laughable.  

Wether to teach intelligent design next to evolution as a "science" is completely fallacious if you want to go by strict standards of science.

 Science is a process by which laws and theories are  *testable, but it does not have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt*, contrary to public belief.   In fact, there is very little science that does that.

In other words,  science is not a list of laws and/or theories that have been proven.* Rather, the requirement is that they are testable.* To test an idea, we need to be able to utilize the idea to make a prediction. Many times, the prediction is specified in terms of what will happen if one does a particular experiment. However it can also be that the prediction needs to be specified in terms of an observation that has yet to be made. For example, this prediction could deal with what we might find if we dig in a certain location.


Is the theory of evolution, testable? 

The prediction needs to be specified in terms of an observation that has yet to be made.

 For example, this prediction could deal with what we might find if we dig in a certain location If macro-evolution has occurred, then we might expect to find certain fossils in certain locations (e.g., fossils would be found in strata from similar dates). If the actual observations match the predicted observations we have evidence in support for the theory. Evolution  makes testable predictions regarding that the DNA of related species should be more similar than those that "look" the same but don't have any fossil evidence linking the two.* As such, it is testable.* Similarly, if the earth was so old, then we might _ expect to observe certain values from dating techniques_ in certain locations. As such, it is testable.

Thus,  *what makes evolution scientific is not whether it has been adequately tested but rather whether it is testable.* In other words, if the question is whether the theory of evolution is science, then the debate is not over whether the theory of evolution has been "proven beyond a reasonable doubt" but rather whether it is falsifiable. And the answer to the latter is "yes". The theory of evolution is science.

( Not ony does evolution  make testable predictions about micro-evolution, but it also makes testable predictions about macro-evolution and the age of the earth/universe.)

Has the theory of evolution been sufficiently tested?  Of course not!
But that is okay.As with any scientific theory, it should be taught as such. It shouldn't be taught as "gospel" or "truth".

Advocates for  intelligent design being taught in the classroom assert that their criticism of evolution is scientific, not religious. Hah!

But the intelligent design theory have not yet been subjected to the normal process of scientific experimentation and debate and* most importantly, it is not testable.*  Does it provide a better and easier explanation of diversity of life!  Well hell yeah but that does not make it right!  

No research supporting the claims of intelligent design has ever been published in any recognized, professional, peer-reviewed scientific journal. 

Therefore,  question of whether there is an intelligent designer is untestable using the methods of science, and therefore is not a scientific claim and should not be taught in classrooms.

For the record, I believe in Intelligent design. But it is not a scientific theory and must remain in the realm of faith and religion.

SORRY ABOUT THE RANT, JUST BEEN GETTING IT LEFT AND RIGHT DOWN HERE IN GEORGIA.


----------



## Decker (Nov 1, 2005)

bandaidwoman said:
			
		

> My real beef is against those who belive intelligent design , creationism etc. should be taught alongside evolution in the classrooms as a alternative "scientific theory". This is absolutely ridiculous and makes our educational institution even more laughable....


Excellent. If conclusions regarding ID ever rise above the level of 'something appears fishy going on' based on the present empirical evidence and speculation, then we are dealing w/ someone trying to backdoor religion into the debate. A frank scientifically informed discussion of intelligent causation can be done without turning to a book of fables for support. Read Paul Davies, The Mind of God for an astro-physicist's view.

Let's see, I'll criticize something I do not know about, namely evolution and then I'll show the necessity of a god, I mean designer, because, everything is, you know, so complex that it has to be designed. Jesus Christ.

Fine. Everything was created by God. That lends zero credibility or support to any bible in existence. Sorry folks, but intelligent causation does not mean the Bible is the word of God b/c it isn't. It just feels good and is comforting to think that it is...that there is Justice independent of Man and everyone is held accountable by an avuncular invisible sky god.


----------



## devildog88 (Nov 1, 2005)

I hate coming into thtese threads so late.  But I believe it is a combination of both theories.  People evolve everyday.  There are many examples of adaptations caused through evolution.  But I still believe that God created everything!


----------



## maniclion (Nov 1, 2005)

You heathens, infidels and pagans, can't you see God hasn't even been born yet.  She is still a fetus in her mothers womb, all of the universe is the overactive imagination of a grand creator who can only imagine what the world will be like by the sounds.  Why do you think space is black?  How do you explain light, have you ever closed your eyes really tight in a pitch dark room?  Did you see the lights?  Imagination is your God, so beleive nothing and create as many worlds as you want in your own minds, cause we will never get anywhere if all we do is destroy for our beliefs.


----------



## Yanick (Nov 3, 2005)

okay, so i have a little thought that i had come to me when i was stoned the other day and arguing with my cousin about this.

lets take christianity as my example, however you can pretty much replace that with any modern religion that preaches salvation through the worship of ONLY its god. here goes:

My understanding of god is that he/she/it is a superior being, and is at all places all the time. I think the word is omni-something (omnipotent and omniscient come to mind but the definitions aren't really matching what idea about god's power i'm trying to explain). So basically even while creating the universe, he already would be in the year 2005 and would see what his creatures have become, get my drift?

so, with that being said, lets say christianity just happens to be the correct religion. why would a god, who is present everywhere in space and time and knows all, endow his creations with free will and a desire to be skeptic, meanwhile he doesn't give anyone any evidence of his/her/its existence until well into human development (there were tons of civilizations around waaaaaay before christianity, who had different ideas about god).

also, if you want someone to do something, what do you do? You don't write down whatever it is you want them to do, then bury it, then hope one day they find it and blindly just go do whatever it is they see on that paper. No, you come up to them and say, "look i need you to..." and if you have any means of punishing that person for not doing what you want, wouldn't you let that person know that they will  be punished with such and such a punishment for not doing what you are asking?

now think about all the different religions that have popped up all over the place, even christianity is so divided that i've lost track of all of the little divisions it has. Look at Hindu's, Buddhists, Muslims, Polythiests etc. If god truly wants us all to worship him/her/it, and truly loves us, and wants us all to go to heaven, why would he allow all of these people to create other such religions which will just earn them an eternity in hell. so i guess you can say, that if christianity is correct, and there is a christian god who will punish everyone not believing in the christian god, he is a fuckin jack off because he pretty much set up 90 percent of the world to go to hell, intentionally.


----------



## busyLivin (Nov 3, 2005)

Yanick said:
			
		

> okay, so i have a little thought that i had come to me when i was stoned the other day and arguing with my cousin about this.
> 
> lets take christianity as my example, however you can pretty much replace that with any modern religion that preaches salvation through the worship of ONLY its god. here goes:
> 
> ...




Stay off the drugs


----------



## devildog88 (Nov 3, 2005)

You can remember things after being stoned????


----------



## Yanick (Nov 3, 2005)

busyLivin said:
			
		

> Stay off the drugs



not that that wasn't witty, or whatever you were trying to accomplish with your, oh so thought provoking remark. but you mind giving constructive criticism? if i made a mistake somewhere in my logic, or with any of my assumptions feel free to correct me.



			
				devildog88 said:
			
		

> You can remember things after being stoned????



oh yes, actually being stoned helps me think about abstract things like that, morality, justice all the usual philosophical questions and even has helped me figure out how some of the human body works, the only thing it messes up is my math abilities (difficult to do arithemetic)


----------



## Tier (Nov 3, 2005)

It's an easy answer, if you're looking at it from an intellectual pov there is no reasonable proof for God, and his mythology is very shaky at best.

If you are more an emotional person who can disregard that, you can believe in something intangible.



Now, Just so I'm not on the fence here I'm an Atheist but I truly understand why people choose to believe, it's a dog eat dog world and it's comforting. I find the need to believe sometimes but I just remind myself of the facts, that there is no proof and that's all there is to it. 

There is confusion throughout texts that are written very closely to the supposed death of Jesus which confuse exactly who's rule he died under, which is something you don't confuse about somebody who recently lived.

Every part of Jesus' life has pagan parallels (mother is a virgin, father is a king, unusual circumstances of conception, son of a god, at birth father tries to kill him, spirited away, told nothing of childhood, returns and goes to future kingdom, becomes king, reigns uneventfully, prescribes laws, loses favor with his subjects, driven from throne, mysterious death at the top of a hill, children don't succeed him, body not buried) 

Now if you want to see the same story over again, you can read mythology that predates Christ up to 2400 years on Oedipus, Theseus, Romulus, Osiris,  etc etc etc

And you can find nearly ALL of his traits in previous saviors (real big coincidence!).

*Previous* Saviors HAVE:

Been Born By a Virgin on December 25th
Had stars appear on their birth
Visited by Magi from the east
Turned Water in Wine
Healed the sick
Cast Out Demons
Performed Miracles
Transfigured before followers
Rode Donkeys into the city
Betrayed for 30 pieces of silver
Celebrated communal meal with bread and wine (which represented the saviors flesh and blood also)

killed on a cross
decended into hell
been resurrected on the third day
ascended into heaven to sit by his father god
etc etc tired of typing

Now if you want the Church's OFFICIAL position about all these happenings?

The Devil made up this mythology to throw us off!


Now if you're trying to look at Jesus and God from an intellectual point of view and still remain a believer you just need to GIVE IT UP. 
Why? You only need to ask yourself one question, really THINK about this though. Why is there religion, I mean why does it exist, why do they keep sprouting up? 

The Answer is obvious, there is a basic need to believe in us, now if it was based on RATIONALITY there would be all kinds of religions that would have came true already right? There have been thousands and THOUSANDS of religions, there should be at least a half dozen proven miraculous prophecy proven right? Wrong.

So you can quite easily conclude that religion is not based on reasonable beliefs by reasonable people.

It's primitive, and you can think your way around the nonsense if you *WANT TO* , that's the key.


----------



## GFR (Nov 3, 2005)

Tier said:
			
		

> It's an easy answer, if you're looking at it from an intellectual pov there is no reasonable proof for God, and his mythology is very shaky at best.
> 
> If you are more an emotional person who can disregard that, you can believe in something intangible.
> 
> ...



Great post


----------



## busyLivin (Nov 3, 2005)

Yanick said:
			
		

> not that that wasn't witty, or whatever you were trying to accomplish with your, oh so thought provoking remark. but you mind giving constructive criticism? if i made a mistake somewhere in my logic, or with any of my assumptions feel free to correct me.




Chill out.. I was only kidding. And no, neither of us are going to change our beliefs & I've been involved in too many of these before....they never go anywhere.


----------



## gococksDJS (Nov 3, 2005)

God died back in the 60's with the criminalization of LSD-25. People say existence was created from nothing, but for me it was created from a mere 100 micrograms of blotter.


----------



## busyLivin (Nov 3, 2005)

Tier said:
			
		

> If you are more an emotional person who can disregard that, you can believe in something intangible.



It's really not as cut & dry as you're making it out to be.... 90% of the World believe in a God, I find it hard to believe that the other 10% are the only reasonable/rational people alive...

Look at Jesus & God from an intellectual pov? What does that mean?  


I really don't see it as any less rational as the Universe popping out of *nowhere * from *nothing*.


----------



## busyLivin (Nov 3, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> God died back in the 60's with the criminalization of LSD-25. People say existence was created from nothing, but for me it was created from a mere 100 micrograms of blotter.


but doesn't He post on here from time to time...


----------



## gococksDJS (Nov 3, 2005)

busyLivin said:
			
		

> but doesn't He post on here from time to time...


 Timothy Leary?????


----------



## busyLivin (Nov 3, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> Timothy Leary?????


just edited my post...


----------



## gococksDJS (Nov 3, 2005)

But if Rob bans him does that mean Rob is more powerful than god???


----------



## busyLivin (Nov 3, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> But if Rob bans him does that mean Rob is more powerful than god???


maybe that's why Rob's hand is yellow...he tried to before


----------



## GFR (Nov 4, 2005)




----------



## Tier (Nov 4, 2005)

busyLivin said:
			
		

> It's really not as cut & dry as you're making it out to be.... 90% of the World believe in a God, I find it hard to believe that the other 10% are the only reasonable/rational people alive...
> 
> Look at Jesus & God from an intellectual pov? What does that mean?
> 
> ...




Can you show me the source of your percentages? I would guess that at least that percentile of people believed the world was flat at a point in history. A lot of people can be wrong at once, I assure you.

I don't see that anybody ever took the popping out of nowhere stance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man


----------



## maniclion (Nov 4, 2005)

Being that China is supposedly all atheist and they make up roughly 20% of the world, plus the 6% of the world that beleives in Buddhism that leaves 74% that may beleive in a God.


----------



## GFR (Nov 4, 2005)

busyLivin said:
			
		

> It's really not as cut & dry as you're making it out to be.... 90% *more like 80%...but why split hairs....most people are idiots so the % doesn't serve the argument for you* of the World believe in a God, I find it hard to believe that the other 10% are the only reasonable/rational people alive...*its more complicated than that*
> 
> Look at Jesus & God from an intellectual pov? What does that mean?
> 
> ...


----------



## GFR (Nov 4, 2005)

maniclion said:
			
		

> Being that China is supposedly all atheist and they make up roughly 20% of the world, plus the 6% of the world that beleives in Buddhism that leaves 74% that may beleive in a God.


*yes I agree*....I did the math on another thread and 20-26% are: Buddhist, atheist, agnostic or something similar.


----------



## The Monkey Man (Nov 4, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> *yes I agree*....I did the math on another thread and 20-26% are: Buddhist, atheist, agnostic or something similar.


I thought it was like 52% christian...

18-20% muslim...

And then the rest little wedges of misc religion, or undetermined?


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## GFR (Nov 4, 2005)

I voted both.....here is why!...a new picture uncovered by the holy Catholic church


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## The Monkey Man (Nov 4, 2005)

BAH...  Airbrushing!


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