# Max amount of daily protein intake



## BigBird (Dec 13, 2010)

I've been incorporating about 2grams per lb of bodyweight daily but does anyone know what the maximum amount of protein should be PER intake?  That is, could anything above X grams in one sitting be a waste?  I've heard anything over 30 grams at one time cannot be handled efficiently but I think the threshhold must be higher than this, especially if one's routine involves higher nitrogen retention, increased protein synthesis, improved red blood cell count, "slightly" elevated testosterone to epitestosterone ratio, etc.  

Stats: 5'8", 220lbs, approx. 12-13% BF, cycled on/off since '96.


----------



## XYZ (Dec 13, 2010)

Anything more than 50-55g per meal is too much in my opinion.  Every 1.5-2 hours.


----------



## Built (Dec 13, 2010)

According to Bilsborough and Mann, the upper limit of what is considered safe is stated at 365 grams of protein for a person weighing 80kg - roughly 175 lbs. This works out to about 2.1 grams of protein per pound bodyweight. 

Nobody is zero percent bodyfat: healthy-lean for a man is about 10% bodyfat, and for a woman is about 20% bodyfat. The greatest amount of lean mass a person weighing 175 lbs can reasonably be expected to carry is 80%-90% of 175 lbs, which works out to 140-160 lbs. 

365 grams of protein daily - the top of the stated "safe" range for daily protein consumption for a person weighing 175 lbs, and therefore carrying at most 160 lbs of lean mass - works out to 2.3g of protein per pound lean mass.
 


A Review of Issues of Dietary Protein Intake in Humans
Shane Bilsborough and Neil Mann
International Journal of Sport Nutrition and Exercise Metabolism, 2006, 16, 129-152 © 2006 Human Kinetics, Inc.


----------



## blazeftp (Dec 13, 2010)

Its hard to say as everyone is different and there hasn't exactly been many test on this.

I however agree with CT.

Don't think the body is able to process more than 50-60g per hour.


----------



## VictorZ06 (Dec 13, 2010)

I try to stay within 2-2.5gr per pound throughout the day.


/V


----------



## Built (Dec 13, 2010)

blazeftp said:


> Its hard to say as everyone is different and there hasn't exactly been many test on this.
> I however agree with CT.
> Don't think the body is able to process more than 50-60g per hour.


http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html
Martin Berkhan would tend to disagree with you. 





> 5. Myth: Maintain a steady supply of amino acids by eating protein every 2-3 hours. The body can only absorb 30 grams of protein in one sitting.
> 
> 
> Truth
> ...


----------



## blazeftp (Dec 13, 2010)

Sorry didn't elaborate more.
I meant the body won't be able to digest more than 50-60g of protein per hour but if you ate 100g of protein the rest would still digest but not within the hour.

The body only puts a small amount of protein to waste.

Its like drinking a bottle of water and you get that small part left at the bottom.
That would be the protein in your body that the body wasted or didn't use.

This is how i see it anyway.


----------



## Built (Dec 13, 2010)

To me this argues in favour of consuming a large portion of protein at once, rather than small amounts. Less overall waste. 

There may actually be a benefit to pulsing protein rather than eating it steadily - at least for bulking. Meal Frequency for Mass Gains | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

"*Is there an optimal intake pattern for different goals?*
_In the chapter on protein requirements, I mentioned Tipton and Wolfe’s contention that any discussion of protein requirements has to be context dependent: that is, the goals of the athlete determine what is optimal in terms of protein intake. While they were talking primarily about total daily protein intake, this idea can be extended to other aspects of nutrition including protein intake throughout the day and how it might interact with specific training goals._

_Logically, gaining muscle mass versus maintaining muscle mass at maintenance calories versus trying to maintain muscle mass under conditions of caloric restriction (dieting) are different situations, potentially requiring different optimal intakes of protein, AAs, meal frequency or protein intake pattern. The possibility exists that different patterns of protein intake (in terms of both timing and type of protein) might exist for different goals (27)._

_For practical purposes, I’m going to consider the following discussion in terms of two different goals: muscle mass maintenance (either at maintenance calories or while dieting) and muscle mass gain. I want to note that most of this discussion will be somewhat hypothetical since little direct research exists to date._

_The background for this discussion can be derived from a topic I’ve discussed previously in the book in terms of how different patterns of protein digestion (i.e. fast versus slow) can influence whole body metabolism differently._

_Recapping briefly, large spikes in amino acid concentration appear to stimulate protein synthesis (recall also the infusion data I discussed above) with little to no impact on protein breakdown. In contrast, maintaining constant low levels of AAs appears to reduce protein breakdown with less of an impact on protein synthesis._

_Consuming very large amounts of protein at once (as in the protein “pulse” studies discussed above) has an effect similar to a fast protein such as whey, spiking blood amino acids and promoting protein synthesis as well as oxidation (28)._

_In contrast, spreading protein out in smaller amounts throughout the day has an effect closer to that of casein, inhibiting protein breakdown with a smaller impact on protein synthesis (28)._

_I’d mention again that, in the original whey versus casein study, reducing protein breakdown via casein had a larger impact on net leucine balance compared to whey. Recall also that adding whey to other food, which had the effect of slowing down digestion, had a similar effect._

_Given that data, it may very well be that simply maintaining relatively constant low levels of amino acids (with a spike around training, discussed next chapter) is optimal for all goals. This would be conceptually similar to the strategy of keeping insulin low but stable during the day with a spike around training. This is essentially the strategy that bodybuilders have empirically settled on under all situations: they eat small amounts of protein, carbohydrates and fat throughout the day with a relatively larger intake of nutrients around training._

_*With regards to muscle mass maintenance and dieting, there is little to discuss: based on the direct research available as well as the general difficulty in stimulating protein synthesis when calories are reduced, a slow/spread pattern of protein intake is clearly optimal.* _

_Maintaining continuous low levels of amino acids throughout the day (in addition to increasing total protein intake) to limit the body’s need to mobilize stored body protein from muscle and other tissues should be the goal. A combination of slow proteins combined with evenly spaced meals to keep blood AA levels stable throughout the day would seem to be optimal._

_But is this also the optimal pattern for gaining muscle mass? On the one hand there is the suggestive study above where a group receiving three meals per day gained more LBM than a group receiving six per day; as well there is the research suggesting that maintaining constant levels of AAs might cause skeletal muscle to become “insensitive” to further stimulation; increasing extracellular levels of AAs and then allowing them to fall again appears to be superior. Both of these data points suggest that *keeping blood AA levels stable throughout the day might not be optimal from the standpoint of muscle mass gains.*_

_Another recent study throws a wrench in the typically held _
_bodybuilder idea that simply maintaining continuous levels of amino acids with frequent meal feeding is optimal (29). In that study, two groups were compared. The first received three whole food meals while the second received the same three meals with an essential amino acid (EAA) supplement in-between. I should note that the study suffered from one huge design flaw: the groups got different amounts of total protein. It should have also tested a group that got 6 whole food meals and the same amount of protein as the EAA supplemented group._

_Recognizing that limitation, the study made at least three major observations. The first was that the EAA supplement generated a greater protein synthetic response than the whole meals. The second was that the EAA supplement generated an anabolic response even when given in-between meals. That is to say, the previously consumed meal, which was still digesting when the supplement was given, didn’t blunt the effect of the EAA supplement. Finally, the EAA supplement didn’t blunt the anabolic response to the meal. Of course, the study didn’t examine what impact this would actually have in the long-term on muscle mass gains but is interesting nonetheless._

_This study suggests that a potential pattern at least worth experimenting with for athletes seeking maximal muscle mass gains would be to alternate between slower digesting meals with faster acting sources (perhaps a whey protein drink or an EAA supplement) throughout the day (25)._

_It also plausible that a combination of slow and fast protein sources at a given meal could give the best of both worlds: a spike in AAs to stimulate protein synthesis followed by a slower increase to inhibit protein breakdown. Preliminary data that I discussed back in Chapter 2 supports that idea as well although it was being primarily applied to protein intake following resistance training. It’s interesting to note that old school bodybuilders often consumed copious amounts of milk to gain lean body mass as milk protein is a mixture of whey and casein."_


----------



## Glycomann (Dec 13, 2010)

If I comsume really high amounts of protein over some weeks say 300+ grams a day my system feels taxed and I get distended. If I stay at around 200 grams per day and then pulse in high protein days I feel it works better and gives less discomfort. 2 days of a 300 gram pulse makes my muscles much more full. My body just does not like sustained gorging over months and months.  It likes change. So it's like pulse and grow then maintain, pulse and grow, then maintain.. repeat.


----------



## LAM (Dec 13, 2010)

there is no maximum amount of protein.  the body will digest whatever amount is placed in the gastrointestinal tract (GIT).  how much of that protein is utilized depends on the demands of the individual.  the more lean body mass or fat free mass a person has AND the greater the amount of muscle protein turnover of that individual the more dietary protein that person needs and can utilize.  resistance training is catabolic by nature what this means is that at the conclusion of every training bout the body has a negative protein balance as the result of some muscle proteins having been catabolized for energy.

Some info from Lemon et al., 1992 (Peter Lemon Ph.D Kent State)

" Lemon divides physical activity into two broad categories, heavy resistance exercise and endurance exercise. For resistance exercise, Lemon cites several studies that have approached this subject from different aspects. Fern (1991) compared body mass gains using 3.3 versus 1.3 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight per day. After 4 weeks, the 3.3 group had larger gains. Meredith et al. (1992) found the addition of 23 grams of protein per day enhanced muscle gains. Two studies are also cited that held individuals at the RDA for protein and found negative nitrogen balance after engaging in strength training (Lemon et al., 1992, Tarnopolsky et al., 1992). The Tarnopolsky study also used protein intakes of 1.4 and 2.4 grams per kilogram per day with no difference in protein synthesis between the 1.4 and 2.4.

Lemon summarizes this work as follows, "These studies indicate that the RDA (which was determined using subjects who were essentially sedentary) is insufficient for individuals who are involved in a heavy resistance training program." Lemon goes on to show linear regression analysis to arrive at a protein intake of 1.7 - 1.8 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight per day to maintain nitrogen balance while working out with weights."


----------



## pritih (Dec 18, 2010)

*At its simplest, your body has a baseline protein requirement that depends on a two main factors: lean body mass (muscle) and activity (type and amount).

The more muscle your body carries, the higher your protein requirement. Also, the more intense, the more frequent and the longer the activity you perform, the more protein you need.
Though the exact amounts that different sources recommend varies widely between 0.7 grams per pound of body-weight (140 grams for a 200 lb person) to levels as high as 2 grams per pound of body-weight (400 grams for a 200 lb person)*


----------



## SFW (Dec 18, 2010)

i dont eat or workout. just tic tacs, del monte fruit cups and tae bo. I repeat...YOU DO NOT NEED PROTEIN TO GROW. food does nothing. training does Nothing. when will you pricks finally realize this?


----------



## OneWheyOrAnother (Dec 20, 2010)

Mr. Fantastico said:


> i dont eat or workout. just tic tacs, del monte fruit cups and tae bo. I repeat...YOU DO NOT NEED PROTEIN TO GROW. food does nothing. training does Nothing. when will you pricks finally realize this?


----------



## WFC2010 (Dec 20, 2010)

50g is ok..and maxx 300 a day..more is waist


----------



## braveand (Dec 28, 2010)

CT said:


> Anything more than 50-55g per meal is too much in my opinion.  Every 1.5-2 hours.


Some studies Even says 30-40gr...


----------



## Built (Dec 28, 2010)

CT said:


> Anything more than 50-55g per meal is too much in my opinion.  Every 1.5-2 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Which studies are these? (They're wrong too btw, I'd just like to see which studies you're reading)


----------



## James3251 (Jan 29, 2011)

The based on what you all are saying is that I want to maintain 225 lbs and I consume minnal fats and carbs keep the protein to 465 grams (225-10%=202.5x2.3=465 grams per day) or 300 grams is as high as I sould go.


----------



## Built (Jan 29, 2011)

465 would be the highest you'd want to go - realistically you'd be hard-pressed to eat that much protein daily. Dieting I'd probably go 400 for you. Bulking you'd be fine with anything over 200g.


----------



## shortstop (Jan 29, 2011)

Built, i'd say you're built for speed as well as comfort. i dont know if you know who mackie shilstone is, but you are slowly taking over him as my #1 favorite fitness guru. all hail built!.......luv you're posts


----------



## James3251 (Jan 30, 2011)

Thanks built this gives me a better idea as to what I am looking for.


----------



## Built (Jan 30, 2011)

shortstop said:


> Built, i'd say you're built for speed as well as comfort. i dont know if you know who mackie shilstone is, but you are slowly taking over him as my #1 favorite fitness guru. all hail built!.......luv you're posts



LOL - no, I don't know him but now I'll have to go look him up!


----------



## Philmb (Feb 3, 2011)

If a person is not overweight (fat), and is trying to gain or maintain lean body mass, say by weight lifting, 1-1.5 gm of protein per pound of body weight is fine. All protein has 4 cal/gm, excess amounts will be stored as fat. The "Maximun of 30 gm/protien" at a meal is not accurate. However, trying to get a minimum of 30 gm/meal makes sense.


----------



## Built (Feb 3, 2011)

Philmb said:


> If a person is not overweight (fat), and is trying to gain or maintain lean body mass, say by weight lifting, 1-1.5 gm of protein per pound of body weight is fine. All protein has 4 cal/gm, excess amounts will be stored as fat.


No - excess CALORIES are stored as fat. Excess protein, without caloric surplus, will not be stored as fat. 



Philmb said:


> The "Maximun of 30 gm/protien" at a meal is not accurate. However, trying to get a minimum of 30 gm/meal makes sense.


Because... ?


----------



## Philmb (Feb 4, 2011)

To "Built."
Take a look at a nutrition book that will explain how excess protein can be used as a energy source, and if it is not used at all, will be just another excess calorie that has to go somewhere.

The goal of a minimum of 30 gm/meal is just that, a goal. Say someone weighs 180 lbs and wants to consume 1 gm/protein per pound of BW. If they had a least 30gm/meal, that still would require 6 meals/day. MY point was that it would be hard for the average lifter to consume enough protein if they consumed less that 30 gm/ meal. It is not an absolute. Of course they could have more, or less, and be fine.


----------



## Built (Feb 4, 2011)

Philmb said:


> To "Built."
> Take a look at a nutrition book that will explain how excess protein can be used as a energy source, and if it is not used at all, will be just another excess calorie that has to go somewhere.


Philmb, kindly re-read my post. 

If it's protein in excess of what is required, but calories stay at or below maintenance, it won't make you fatter. In fact, if you do this while eating below maintenance, it'll help you drop more of the weight you lose in the form of fat. 

If it's protein in excess of what is required, but calories go over maintenance, then yes, it'll make you fatter.  





> The goal of a minimum of 30 gm/meal is just that, a goal.



Why would it be a goal?



> Say someone weighs 180 lbs and wants to consume 1 gm/protein per pound of BW. If they had a least 30gm/meal, that still would require 6 meals/day.


Some people prefer to eat six meals a day, but some prefer to eat two. There is no physiologic requirement for any set number of feedings - that part is purely personal preference. 

(Protein is probably best targeted toward lean mass btw - obese people probably don't need a gram per pound bodyfat)


> MY point was that it would be hard for the average lifter to consume enough protein if they consumed less that 30 gm/ meal. It is not an absolute. Of course they could have more, or less, and be fine.



There are actually some advantages - at least while bulking - to pulsing protein through the day, eating it in a few large servings with long-ish periods of time between protein-feedings. 

Cutting, you're probably better off spreading it out a bit more. It's only in low-protein diets where there's a real need to spread out protein, to help spare muscle. In the typical high protein diet most bodybuilders consume, there's really no need for concern.


----------



## Laker33 (Feb 9, 2011)

300 grams


----------



## Laker33 (Feb 9, 2011)

It also depends on how much u weigh


----------



## Built (Feb 9, 2011)

Thank you for the two useless posts.


----------



## XYZ (Feb 10, 2011)

Built said:


> Which studies are these? (They're wrong too btw, I'd just like to see which studies you're reading)


 

It works for me and I really don't need a study to prove that.  Almost every study done on this subject has another which contradicts it, it's all a vicious circle.


----------



## James3251 (Feb 10, 2011)

I have been reading all of these posts and find them very informative. I have updated my information. I guess by the question I asked I kind of miss led you all of you. I am to reduce weight as putting it on has never been a problem. I am also 61 yrs old and retired. I came to this site as I felt that you would be able to lead down the right path as I have never really be on it and you have. I now see hitting a high protein requirement would be hard if you are not trying to increase size, which I am not. As I am more interested in a healthy, lean muscular body because my interest is in martial arts. I am not sure that I can every achieve my goals as I have as medical condition that is always going to be in my way but I will continue to try and achieve my goals as much as I can. So once again I thank you for all of the info that you have supplied.


----------



## Built (Feb 10, 2011)

CT said:


> It works for me and I really don't need a study to prove that.  Almost every study done on this subject has another which contradicts it, it's all a vicious circle.


Huh?


----------



## Built (Feb 10, 2011)

James3251 said:


> I have been reading all of these posts and find them very informative. I have updated my information. I guess by the question I asked I kind of miss led you all of you. I am to reduce weight as putting it on has never been a problem. I am also 61 yrs old and retired. I came to this site as I felt that you would be able to lead down the right path as I have never really be on it and you have. I now see hitting a high protein requirement would be hard if you are not trying to increase size, which I am not.


Are you saying you only need protein to gain? I'm not sure what you're getting at here. 


James3251 said:


> As I am more interested in a healthy, lean muscular body because my interest is in martial arts. I am not sure that I can every achieve my goals as I have as medical condition that is always going to be in my way but I will continue to try and achieve my goals as much as I can.


What condition is that?



James3251 said:


> So once again I thank you for all of the info that you have supplied.


----------



## MDR (Feb 11, 2011)

As someone who likes larger, less frequent meals, it was good to learn that it is OK to eat the way I prefer.  When I was trying to eat "healthy" and "frequently" according to the so-called experts, I walked around starving all day.  Small meals do not cut it for me. Cutting back on carbs and eating more Fat and more Protein in a sitting works for me.  I just feel more comfortable, and my dietary calories are much easier to control.  I struggled for years to eat smaller meals because everyone said that was the thing to do.  No more.


----------



## Built (Feb 11, 2011)

See that's just it. If you're more comfortable doing six meals, by all means go ahead. I'm relieve to know that if there is any difference at all, it's slight at best - and not worth being uncomfortable for.


----------



## XYZ (Feb 11, 2011)

Built said:


> Huh?


 

In regards to your post, #16.


----------



## Built (Feb 11, 2011)

CT, it was braveand who mentioned "some studies", not you. 



braveand said:


> Some studies Even says 30-40gr...



If you like to eat the way you do, go for it. 

It's just good to know it's not necessary to limit your protein-per-meal, unless of course you prefer it.


----------



## James3251 (Feb 12, 2011)

To Built

I have Myasthenia Gravis. This is a autoammun desease that attacts the skelental muscels. The more you use them the weaker you get and you have to rest to regenerate. This is basicly What happens to a normal person but I would weaken much faster. Now saying that I have researched everything I could and by the use of herbs, minerals, vitamins and supplements such as Creatine, Glutamine and L-Arginine I have made great strides in in the reduce of the affects of the desease. I am to the point that I no longer take any drugs for the desease. 

The martial arts (Tai Chi, Qigong and Bagua) are used for not only the art but also for the benefits of the body that have been achieved for over 2000 yrs in China. 

Two areas that I am interested in is lean muscle mass and strength training. Where you guys are building large muscel mass and lean bodies that show each muscel definition in great detail and I can appreciate the work, effert and restrain that you use to achieve this. What I am looking for and I may never get it is Lean muscel mass with definition but not the bulk. As to weight gain I have always been on the SEA FOOD Diet. I see food and I put on weight. I has taken me a yr to retrain myself to eat properly and run a deficit of about avg of 1344 cal per day basied on a body weight of 187 lbs.  At this time I weigh 265 so the deficit would be higher.

That is where I am at.


----------



## Built (Feb 12, 2011)

I have a good friend with  Myasthenia Gravis; I'm sorry you have this to deal with. 

How many calories are you currently eating, and what is the breakdown in grams protein, carb and fat?


----------



## TooOld (Feb 12, 2011)

Heard about this on SHR: Vitamin A: The Forgotten Bodybuilding Nutrient

For those for you taking in high amounts of protein, make sure you get enough vitamin A to synthesis all of that protein.
This might be the reason some of you feel over a certain amount doesn't do anything. You just may be Vit A deficient.


----------



## Built (Feb 12, 2011)

Interesting.


----------



## shortstop (Feb 13, 2011)

good lord people. shut the fuck up and if its working for you, keep at it. and um.....when it comes to nutrition, lets not argue with Builtm


----------



## James3251 (Feb 13, 2011)

To Built 

My Protein 150 to 184g perday (I try for 200)
Carbs 184 average perday (Itry for minimum as possible)
Fat approx 39 g (Itry for minimum as possible)
     Once I achieve my body fat of 10% or less I will relook at what I am doing.

I don't eat simple carbs as most of them I can't and the same with fat that is kept to a minimum.

I you have a friend that has Myasthenia and is still on the drugs have him contact me and I will tell him what I have done to get off of them. AT this point I am taking no durgs for Myasthenia and am cooping well. I do use a lot of herbs and supplements. It has taken me over two yrs to get to this point with a lot of research so I maybe able to get some good advice.


----------



## Built (Feb 13, 2011)

Thanks - and will do. 

Re your fats. I'd urge you to creep those up a bit, for endocrine health. Low fat diets are not healthy for long term dieting. For unassisted males, this is particularly important. I'd suggest creeping it up; modest guidelines are in the range of half a gram per pound lean mass - so around 90-100g for a man your size. I realize you're trying to drop weight, but try to get in at least half that most days while cutting. Personally, I would be happier if I saw your fats no lower than 70g daily.  Are you getting in fish oil?


----------



## James3251 (Feb 14, 2011)

To Built 

Yes I do take fish oil - 10 gr per day.  I will work on the increase in fats.

Thks


----------



## James3251 (Feb 14, 2011)

New Question

I have reduced my sodium and sugar intake to al most nothing. Now I do get some from any canned foods but I have tried to keep it down. Am I hirting myself by doing this.  I use Creatine because it has been tested in studies for medical reasons to help increase strength but I don't add anything just mix it in water. Should this have some kind of sugars added in the form of honey, milk, etc.


----------



## Built (Feb 14, 2011)

Naw. Just take it with water. Is your blood pressure too high or something? You do need SOME salt.


----------



## James3251 (Feb 14, 2011)

Blood pressure was high but is down now and should go lower now that I don't take any of the drugs anymore. Last time I checked it was 115/64 so I think as I loose more fat the better it should be. As I sweating more I will increase salt. ITs cool here most days and were have the gym and the basement it is cool.


----------



## Built (Feb 14, 2011)

Get half salt. It's got potassium in it. Good for blood pressure.


----------



## James3251 (Feb 15, 2011)

To Built

Appreciate all of this advice. Today was the first day that I got a really great workout and as I had more energy and I got a great sweat going.

James3251


----------



## Built (Feb 15, 2011)

Glad you had a good workout. To what changes do you attribute the improved performance?


----------



## James3251 (Feb 16, 2011)

The increase in Fat has caused me to reevaluate my diet and even though I have increased my calorie intake I have also increased my deficit. I guess I bought to much into the doctors advice that you need to reduce, reduce, reduce. I was eating only enough to loose weight but not enough to exercise. So I had trouble staying awake early in the evening, burned out to quick in a workout and was not loosing the weight that I should have been even though they spread sheet said I should be loosing weight. I also have and increase in energy and even though I knew that you had to put it to take it off I listened to much to the doctors. This is the same problem I had when their advice was to use drugs that over time can and will destroy organs.


----------



## Built (Feb 16, 2011)

Well, I'm glad you're more comfortable now. 

PS if you're falling asleep in the evening and running out of steam, get your testosterone checked, okay? Hubby had those symptoms and it turns out he needed HRT.


----------



## James3251 (Feb 16, 2011)

I did have it check and the doctor said that it was 14 and it was in the center of the acceptable range. Now that could have changed by stoppping the imuran I was on and if anything it would go up.


----------



## Built (Feb 16, 2011)

That's total T, right? Did he check free test as well? What's imuran?


----------



## James3251 (Feb 17, 2011)

I'm not sure if he did. I have to tell him what to do or ask the specific questions. He's a bit of a jerk. Imuran is an immune suppression drug to control Myasthenia. This is the same drug that you would take if you had a kidney transplant. It is hard on the liver as many powerful drugs are. That is why I have come up with ways to not require the use of these drugs. Drugs are not the answer they are a necesary evil that you need to stableize with but unfortunatly Dr ( getting kickbacks from the drug companes) continue to use instead of looking at safer alturnatives. 

I would be guessing but I probably don't to much free testosterone but I am concerned at this time with taking something that would increase it as like most of my organs are slightly enlarged (Liver, Kidneys, Prostate). At the drugs leave my body and I continue to reduce my weight and get into better shape things should start to return to normal, I hope. This is why I have a great interest and willingness to make these drastic changes to my health.  I am going in for a full physical in June to see how I am progressing. I bet that was more than you expected.


----------



## James3251 (Feb 17, 2011)

I have been doing some reading about testosterone and are there supplements that reduce estrogen, increase testosterone and normalize DHT.


----------

