# First time user-Sustenon 250?????



## repoj (May 28, 2003)

*want to use sustenon 250-need advise on cycle please help!!*

   
                                     I am an amature bodybuilder and have been cycling 1 test with 4 ad for about 3 weeks now and noticed significant gains in strength and body wieght. I have a freind that has used deca, test and esspecially sustenon 250 in the past and has been recomending sustenon  to me for some time now. I would like to try it but he boasts that on a cycle of 5 weeks on, 5 weeks off that I can easily gain up to 20 pound in 5 weeks. 
                                        My only concern is that my freinds, family and co-workers will all know that I'm using if I gain that fast. I wanted to try just ONE amp of sust but my friend suggests that I take the 5 week on-5 week off cycle or I'm not going to get the effect that I'm looking for when using the sust. 
                                     Is there anyone out there that can give me some input in this, maybe suggest further appart injections, every month or so maybe for more gradual-looking effects, or another injectable? I didn't want to try Dianabol or Anavar because I read that they can be very toxic to the liver and have strong aromatizing effects. Any advise on my issue would be greatly appreciated.


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## Mudge (May 28, 2003)

Too short of a cycle. Sust should kick in between weeks 3-5 and then you'd just up and quit? 10-12 weeks IMO and your standard clomid post cycle.

I would like to see a prop vs sust argument, and I bet prop would win. If your buddy is gaining 20 quality pounds in 5 weeks he must be a monster, because sust is not magical fruitilicious. Its good but its nothing but a mix of 4 tests.

Every month injections??? Madness! That is what we call yo-yoing your test levels. Cyp is the longest acting test, 12 day half life, 10 for enan. Go with one of those for once a week injections if you want, prop is known for less bloat though but you will be doing EOD injections at least because it has a 2 day HL.

If you want moderate results stick to moderate doses (dont go over 500mg test a week). Dont stack with other gear, just do test, keep nolva on hand (probably wont need it with only 500mg if you weigh enough and are not gyno prone), and grab your clomid for the end of your cycle.

Dbol/Anavar/Winny/Abombs/Halo are all orals which are 17aa steroids, which is to avoid being broken down by the liver. Medical studies I've seen use far more than almost anyone sane will ever use, and for longer periods of time, so supprisingly gear users are not pushing the envelope here with orals IMO (for the most part). DBol will bloat you up a bit, great pumps though - but it can affect your skin, shower 3x a day if you throw it in your stack if needed. Anavar is more for strength than size gains, very mild drug, works by increasing the red blood cell count and is pretty expensive.


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## repoj (May 28, 2003)

I appreciate your input greatly. My friend pretty much swaers by sustenon 250. I  have done tons and tons of research on steroids and thought that because of how low sustenon aromatises that that was the one for me. 
                                  But what he suggested was a 5 week on, 5 week off, than another 5 week on cycle. But because I wanted to get gradual gains, that muscle is gunna just burst on through one way or the other I guess huh. So should just deal with the fact that I try it or dont, and deal with what other people think.


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## MJ23 (May 28, 2003)

Repoj - I think thats definitely a good approach, and Mudge is right, 5 weeks wont cut it, U probably need almost that just to kick start the sustanon250


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## repoj (May 28, 2003)

How much can I expect to gain in poundage if I do a 5 week on, 5 off, than another 5 on cycle?


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## Mudge (May 28, 2003)

I think its hard to say because "nobody" does that short of a cycle, I hear that the Europeans are more interested in lower doses/less time on though than Americans are. Supposedly they do 4 week cycles (obviously not all of them).

You wont recouperate I'd say on a 5 week break only, remember you will be off for 2 weeks before clomid, then another 2 weeks of clomid thereapy and THEN your 5 weeks begins, so your looking at alot longer.

Appropriate cycle lengths of 10 weeks allow for about 2 cycles a year, because of off time. Unless you get blood work done to prove that your "recouperated" then you should stick to what works, IMO of course.

This would work like, 10 weeks on, 2 weeks off (test levels start to drop due to half life), clomid therapy begins for 2-4 weeks (most stick with 2), thats 14 weeks. Many people count that as the entire cycle, so that means 14 weeks + 14 weeks wait before next cycle, thats 28 weeks which is more than half a year, being 52 weeks. Not everyone uses this method though.

How much stuff do you have? Sust is a bit pricey for what it is, I would choose something else. If your not afraid of ED/EOD injections Prop is the "best". Fast acting, short half life means faster recoup as well. Many claim to hold less water on prop also.

You wont find alot of support for 5 week cycles though like I said, feel free to try it though if you are set on it, but experience points to another way. I remember hearing about a gym trainer who suggested 2 week cycles only, for beginners this person was recommending over a gram a week on test and claimed that 2 week breaks between the cycles was enough to recouperate with ZERO clomid therapy, yeah right.

5 weeks my guess though, 7-10 pounds, but it all depends on your diet and training. If you dont eat it you wont gain it. Do the math on what your eating now and add say 500 calories a week and see how it goes. I would suggest 1.5g-2.0g protein per body pound. Also some of that is going to be water, water weighs 6.8 pounds per gallon, so it might be safe to say 1/4-1/2 is water, which means not much actual gains.


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## Mudge (May 28, 2003)

Something else to consider, is the belief "longer cycles produce keepable gains." I believe in this to some degree myself. You will find that after a few cycles alot of people are in the 12-16 week range. Alot of the more experienced users stay on longer, and have long recouperation times. There is a long time user on another board who was on for nearly a year (I'm not recommending that at all) and his blood levels were amazingly good. He was on 7xx something mg a week total, Fina was done throughout the cycle.

There are lots of schools of thought but most people especially early on stick to something in the 8-10 week range with moderate doses, so that is where people are going to keep pointing you.


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## crackerjack414 (May 28, 2003)

here is my short cycle that i can pull of 20lbs gains in 6 weeks
100mg prop ed1-6
75mg tren ed 1-6
50mg dbol every day 1-6
3-10 test eth or sust 500mg


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## repoj (May 28, 2003)

Thanks mudge, that helps. I think hat according to that adivice, I'll try the 10 week on, 4 week off theory with the sustenon, just cause my buddie supports it so. I'll be trying it withing about two monthes but I'll keep you and everybody else that advised me on my progress. I'll be doing a two week cycle of Mag 10 here in about two days. I have a couple bottles that I baught and I'm wanting to see the performance of the stuff.


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## Mudge (May 28, 2003)

Remember thats 2 weeks off, 2 weeks clomid and THEN time off 

The longer the ester in your desired test the longer it will take for blood levels to drop low enough to use clomid, some people wait 3 weeks making a 10 week cycle really 13 before even beginning recouperation with clomid, and then of course the wait thereafter.


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## repoj (May 28, 2003)

Oh ok, so the first two weeks after the cycle, take two weeks off-THAN two weeks clomid, THAN the 5 weeks off. That makes more sence. I'd like to get maximum gains from the sust but I am also not stupid enough to reframe from keeping my indocrine system up.


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## Mudge (May 28, 2003)

Thats one way to look at it, honestly though some people count the 4 weeks (2+2) as time on, and thusly you'd be 5 weeks, 2 weeks, 2 weeks, + 9 weeks time off making 18 total weeks for only a "5 week cycle" of shots, which again is really at least 7 because it takes 2-3 weeks for the HL to reduce enough that the clomid will actually do anything for you, and then it takes time to recover the natural test.

So again, this is why I think 5 weeks is a waste, your hardly ever going to be ON, and your on for such a short period of time things are just getting started. If your buddy is getting GREAT results from 5 week cycles like this, lets hear about how about it, and how he is cycling.


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## repoj (May 28, 2003)

He's going to be looking for a good product pretty soon, and I told him to look out for me. He's got some suppliers in line so I'm not worried about that. I also trust him as far as judgment is concerned. When he cycles I'll keep you posted. When he gets his supply I'm probably gunna get about 10 amps to start mine as well. I'll keep regular updates.


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## Mudge (May 28, 2003)

I would go with vials if you can get them, I dont see a reason to prefer amps unless its all you can get. I would imagine them to be more expensive, as well as a little more pain to deal with, but whatever works works.


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## repoj (May 28, 2003)

by the vials, are you talking about the rubber top bottles, or the little glass-champage bottles?


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## Mudge (May 28, 2003)

Yep, rubber top, 10-20cc usually. Something to think about might be E5D injections or E4D. If you were dead set on only getting 10cc, you could run an injection every 5th day of 250mg and it would be 350mg a week and last you 7 weeks, still not much difference though hmm.

How much do you weigh?


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## repoj (May 29, 2003)

I would almost think that the glass ampules would be better, by the way not to sound stupid, but what IS and e5d or e4d injection?


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## Mudge (May 29, 2003)

Every 4/5 day. Why would glass amps be better? As long as you keep a sterile needle to pull, replace it to inject, you should have no problems. If you dont use a new needle every time, its a risk. I can provide pictures posted recently of a shoulder abcess from  someone who reused needles if you like.

The dude saved $10 to go through that, www.getpinz.com


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## bigpapa (May 29, 2003)

Dont forget that Sustanon remains active in your system for up to 4 weeks after your last injection. You should begin Clomid treatment right after 4 weeks. I'm a big beliver of a short cycle. In order to obtain maximum results from you cycle you should jump start it with D-bol or Anadrol (along with Sustanon). Dont taper up, start high, keep it 4-5 weeks and than take a 4 week break( after Sustanon clears you system). If you prolong your cycle after that point you'll see more side efects and your gains will come to a halt. Just remember that you have to start high in order for this tipe of cycle to work. It looks like that

Sustanon 500 mg a week
Decca 400 mg a week
D-bol 30 mg ad

All of the above for a duration of a cycle (4-5 weeks)
Keep Nolvadex on hand and eat around 4000 Kcal ad.


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## Mudge (May 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by bigpapa *_
> If you prolong your cycle after that point you'll see more side efects and your gains will come to a halt.



You are one of the only users in the world claiming to have such a unique problem. Side effects are for people who are using too much. Since you are not suggesting front loading, and yet you claim side effects past 5 weeks with only 500mg a week, I would believe you are gyno prone or very small and should not be doing 500mg a week, which almost anyone can handle without these "side effects" you mention. Without front loading it takes about 4 weeks alone to simply get blood levels up.

I have come across newbie idiots who have done a gram a week for 12 weeks and had no gyno.

Another thing to keep in mind is you have more estradiol receptors if your carrying alot of bodyfat, so gyno can be harder to ward off if you are north of 15% bodyfat.


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## bigpapa (May 29, 2003)

I'm not talking about myself here, it's for a person who is doing his 1st or 2nd cycle. Ive seen guys on 3gr a week with no gyno and someone who was doing 750 mg and had gyno after 3 weeks of juicing. For someone it can be as small as 30 mg of D-bol a day wise guy.


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## repoj (May 29, 2003)

Hey big papa, I appreciate al;l the help here, but in all honesty I only have a limited amount of cash at any given time. In my opinion, about 200 bucks is all anybody should pay for 10 amps of sust, and like I said before I would try d-bol and/or anadrol if they werent so toxic and prone to aromatize. I can get the clomid from a guy that I know that runs a nutrition shop, and I can get the sustenon from my buddy. I'm also not stupid enough to NOT know that if he can get me clomid he can probably get me anything.
                                                   Either on the 5 weeks on, 5 off, than 5 on-or-the 10 weeks on like you said mudge, and than the 6 weeks off including clomid I'm using clomid in both but I think that after reviewing your last statemen over the fat issue I'll not keep my injections (when I try the sust) over 250mg/d. I'm at about 14-15% bf, but usually when I cycly my pro steroids or pro hormones I lean up some so maybe I'll cycle those right before a BIG cycle.


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## Mudge (May 29, 2003)

Your amps are overpriced then, $200 is a rip, or your buddy is making double under the table. Sust itself is overpriced, but amps add additional cost, about the only thing more expensive has to be redijects.

Some people are gyno prone, but if your only doing 250mg/wk you will probably be fine, even 400-500 you will _probably_ have no problems.


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## Mudge (May 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by bigpapa *_
> I'm not talking about myself here, it's for a person who is doing his 1st or 2nd cycle.



I dont know what this experience is your relaying, I've never heard of or seen gyno simply by going over 5 weeks for a first timer.


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## repoj (May 29, 2003)

My friend told me that anything over 15 bucks for sustenon an amp is a rip-seing as how it's a 50/50 chance on getting good shit anyways.


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## Mudge (May 29, 2003)

I'd be willing to pay half that  Alot of the people I work with spend $15 just for lunch daily though.


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## aceman (May 29, 2003)

*blood levels*

Before you start a new cycle what is a proper blood level?


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## repoj (May 30, 2003)

do you ask to know if I know what I'm talking about, or because you honestly don't know?


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## aceman (May 30, 2003)

*tests*

to find out. I have my blood checked after every cycle which is 10 weeks on 4 weeks off and sometimes my liver numbers read alittle high but my physician says thats normal for using cyp. and not to worry.  Does that sound correct?


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## repoj (May 30, 2003)

to tell you the truth aceman, I have no clue. I'v never used cyp or anything else for that matter.  Read the beginning of my thred here, I'm going to be trying a cycle of sustenon in about two or 3 monthes from now, I'll let everybody know how my cycle goes. 
                  If you have any questions, try asking Mudge-the dude knows his shit. Just to give you a clue though, a buddy of mine uses 250 mg er week of sustenon 250 in his cycles, and his liver tests are always good. I never even thought realy of getting a test going, to be BRUTALLY honest, my doctor is a good aquaintance of mine. He knows that I build, bit him knowing that I cycle isn't first on my list of things to do. I'll get around it though, I'm not so pig headed to not care for my inners.


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## Mudge (May 30, 2003)

You would have your blood checked out before you ever started a cycle to find out what your natural levels are, although it can fluctuate to some extent. Alot of people find that thier natural test is very low, 50 times lower than normal is not unheard of (I've seen a recent 7 and most people are 300 minimum). This is one reason why blood work is highly recommended for those that are serious about thier long term health, as well as maximum results. I can try and re-find a blood test from someone and will post in a couple hours.

Some others find that after clomid therapy though that thier natural test levels are higher than previously, so some people seem to recover well.


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## Mudge (May 30, 2003)

Here is one, not rock bottom levels though (test wise).



> I will list only the things out. This blood work has been taken 7 weeks post cycle. I came off of a 1gram test,75mg-adrol and 600mg DECA. Is there any ancilaries to help with the red and white blood cell and platelettes? I had a test level of 175 1 year ago and now it is lower, how long till I decide whether it is going to come back? I started another 3 weeks of 2000iu hcg eod. 6 weeks of 20mg nolva ed and 50mg clomid ed. I will then get again tested in 8weeks. Please don't lecture I need constuctive criticism on how to get back to proper levels.
> 
> 
> Triglycerides 247 ___ <150
> ...


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## aceman (May 30, 2003)

*results*

wow those numbers are pretty out of whack.  I don't think I have ever had those kind of numbers in the 2 years I have been on gear.  I feel pretty good about my numbers now.  Usually my liver enzymes are up slightly.  Of course I only do injectables which are not supposed to be as harsh on the body.  Have you been to a physician about those numbers.  You may have to stay on HCG for a while to get things back up.


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## Mudge (May 30, 2003)

Droid is not a member of this board.


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## aceman (May 31, 2003)

*sorry*

I thought those were numbers you were  putting up were for one of your blood tests.


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## Mudge (May 31, 2003)

Nope, just passing one along that I saw recently  I have seen at least one where total test was 6 or 7, I forget how long they were using for, but I would definately say everyone seems to react differently no matter following the same post cycle or not. Fina does not seem to affect as much as people thought, Deca though does, again only from what I've seen.


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## Just a guy (Aug 26, 2003)

Im new to the forum but yes i am registered.  I have been reading what you have been talking about on this certain topic.... and you all seem pretty educated......

I'm a 19 yearold still in highschool (2nd year senior),  and i have been taking mimic steroids such as D-bol (www.legalsteroids.com)
which are blends of andro's and nor androstene's which were in capps of 266 mg's! at 2-8 times a day.  And recently i have ordered some real deal dianabol from across seas and there no fakes.  

The question is...  What should i do to stay safe?  As in liver level's and decrease of Natural testosterone.  I have had elevated liver level before... like 12 times as high... but that was because of drug use with mix of steroids prolly (the fake roids). 
Any feed back on this would be wonderful.  OH yeh and i got 2 different kinds of dianabol.....  Anabol (the pink 5mg ones)
and the other one is blue... methadrostenol or something like that.

I appreciate it!


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## repoj (Aug 26, 2003)

Well dude I can say this much-if you got your D-BOL from (www.legalsteroids.com), than you probably got ripped off. I have read soo many articles from that website on how they talk a good one, but when it came down to it there shit is just that. 
    I don't know what gains if any you got from the stuff, real D-BOL will grant you great streangth, and mass. It will also give you some water retention if your not using and estrogen blocker like NOLVADEX or a better one yet PROVIRON.  And at 266mg's a tab, that's fucking insane!!!!  The first time I tried ACTUAL DIANABOL tabe they were in 5 mg tabs and gave me awesome results with a strict training regemine and diet plan. 
            A haven't taken any ANABOL or ANADROL as it is also called I believe simply because I have no interest in it fir two reasons: 1-It's allot more harmfull to your liver than the REAL D-BOL, I hear it gives great gains and mass-far  surpassing D-BOL, but it is also the most harmfull oral. This is a quote from a reliable website-
                 "Anadrol 50 is unfortunately also the most harmful oral steroid. Its intake can cause many considerable side effects. Since it is I 7-alpha alkylated it is very liver-toxic. Most users can expect certain patho-logical changes in their liver values after approximately one week."
                           the second reason that I have never tried it is simply because I am in a stage of my building right now comming off some real D-bol, and my next step is an injectible. I have NEVER tried an injectible so I will not try to diss-prove any of the big-boy's out there that know better. But I will say this much, between an oral and an injectible-injection is the best way to go. It's less-MUCH less harmfull on the liver and gives allot better convenience once you get passed the whole needle-steroid-jock bodybuilder thing. Just decide what you wanna do, be a big boy and do it. 
                                     But i think that some things should be concidered for ya here buddy to get the best out of your gear: Make sure that your taking and anti-estrogen or an estrogen blocker such as NOLVADEX, PROVIRON or ARIMIDEX. In my experience, taking anything over 50 mg's of D-BOL a day is futile as it lasts for only 5 hours at best of half life-so push HARD i your workouts. EAT like crazy-DUH, also if your concerned about the water retention that D-bol or ANADROL can give you, NOLVE will help reduse it. 
                     And it sounds like you'v already figured out that taking conventional shit like narcotics and GEAR don't mix. One or the other buddy, at least with roids-the only addiction you get is a bloated ego among the more SERIOUSE side-effects.


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## Mudge (Aug 26, 2003)

I think by his post he knows he was buying bunk stuff before.

Anywho, I wouldn't run dbol alone but thats just me. Milk thistle for the liver, couple other substances that skip my mind.


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## BUSTINOUT (Aug 26, 2003)

The question right now is not so much how to stay safe health wise, but rather how to stay safe legal wise.  Sounds like your stuff still has to make it through customs.


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## mattydubs (Mar 30, 2005)

Mudge, I'm a first time sus-250 user too, and have a few basic questions.  
First off, I'm 5"10, 165 lbs, slim build, bf% is low, 22 years old.  I've only been injecting 250 of sus once a week for a week and a half.  I am already suprised with the results.  I am not stacking, but am currently happy with what it's been doing for me.  A little problem:  I live in a 'sober house' required by court, so a lot of the time I'm unable to go to the gym.  I'm doing 200 + pushups a day, eating about 5 meals, squats, crunches, and whatever I can with 30 and 40 lb barbells.  

1.) should I be seeing resulsts like this so early?
2.) is  $75 for 5 amps of sus too much?
3.) should i stack? if so, with what and how expensive is it?  
4.) will I be able to maintain my weight/muscle mass after a 12 week cycle of 1 shot per week of sus?
5.) are the excercises I'm doing effective to become shredded with some bulk?
thanks


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## LAM (Mar 30, 2005)

mattydubs said:
			
		

> Mudge, I'm a first time sus-250 user too, and have a few basic questions.
> First off, I'm 5"10, 165 lbs, slim build, bf% is low, 22 years old.  I've only been injecting 250 of sus once a week for a week and a half.  I am already suprised with the results.  I am not stacking, but am currently happy with what it's been doing for me.  A little problem:  I live in a 'sober house' required by court, so a lot of the time I'm unable to go to the gym.  I'm doing 200 + pushups a day, eating about 5 meals, squats, crunches, and whatever I can with 30 and 40 lb barbells.
> 
> 1.) should I be seeing resulsts like this so early?
> ...



sust is overrated for testosterone supplementation for sports or physical enhancement.  It was originally designed for HRT as a 1x a month steroid treatment, the different esters contained in sust offer no advantages.

testosterone enanthate or cypionate are much better choices.  all you need is 500 mg/wk for 10 weeks.


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## deeno (Mar 30, 2005)

mattydubs said:
			
		

> 1.) should I be seeing resulsts like this so early?
> 2.) is  $75 for 5 amps of sus too much?
> 3.) should i stack? if so, with what and how expensive is it?
> 4.) will I be able to maintain my weight/muscle mass after a 12 week cycle of 1 shot per week of sus?
> ...



1. Yes, from the prop in the sust
2. Yes, 15 bucks an amp is pricey
3. As Lam stated, Test is all you need, so there is no need to stack.
4.  Maintenance depends on diet and PCT (nolva/clomid)
5. IMO, you need to lift heavy and though I love push ups, they just don't    cut it.


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## mattydubs (Mar 31, 2005)

thanks for your hepl, guys

"testosterone enanthate or cypionate are much better choices. all you need is 500 mg/wk for 10 weeks."

why are people knocking sus?  are those two much better than sus?  It's weird because I'm seeing noticeable results, as are other people.  especially in my shoulders, back, and chest.  i want to be bigger, but mainly i want to be cut the fuck up.  i don't wanna be over 200 lbs.  any more suggestions or things to consider as i continue this cycle?  i mean, i already bought the sus but after this i will consider stacking/switching methods.


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## LAM (Mar 31, 2005)

mattydubs said:
			
		

> why are people knocking sus?



do you know the differences between the various esters of the 4 types of test contained in sust ?


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## mattydubs (Mar 31, 2005)

no, i'm completely new to this.  i'm actually doing research as we speak.


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## LAM (Mar 31, 2005)

mattydubs said:
			
		

> no, i'm completely new to this.  i'm actually doing research as we speak.



once you understand how the different esters in sust work then you will know why it is not as effective as a sports supplement when compaired to enanthate or cypionate


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## Mudge (Mar 31, 2005)

Sustanon is overpriced. That is really the only reason I can see to avoid it. People argue left and right about what the esters do, its still test though - just overpriced test.


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## mattydubs (Mar 31, 2005)

ok.  i don't care about the price, but i want to know what will be the best for my goal:

gain 20 lbs
get cut, not big and fluffly
maintain it

1/2) how long of a cycle do you think i will have to do complete this goal, and what stackers would you reccomend on top of sus?  

AND

3) should i up the sus from 250 a week to 500?

4) is it safe or even worth it to take nytric oxide during this cycle?

i'm into the second week and doing 250 sus weekly currently (165 lbs, 5"10, low bf%, 22 yrs old)


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## Mudge (Mar 31, 2005)

Test is test, there is no real reason to use sustanon over another. When I speak of price, I'm stating that its a waste.

If bottled water from France should cost more than from the USA though hey, whatever. If someone pays the price its obviously not overpriced to them. 

You need to decide if you want to bulk or cut, not both.


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## mattydubs (Mar 31, 2005)

ideally i'd like to bulk then cut.  this is not possible?

i'd rather be cut, but i want to put on atleast 10 more lbs before i do so.  

what do you suggest mudge?


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## Tha Don (Mar 31, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> once you understand how the different esters in sust work then you will know why it is not as effective as a sports supplement when compaired to enanthate or cypionate



agreed, i'd go with test en or cyp over sust, en and cyp are also gonna give you more test ml for ml so gains should be more pronounced


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## Tha Don (Mar 31, 2005)

mattydubs said:
			
		

> ideally i'd like to bulk then cut.  this is not possible?
> 
> i'd rather be cut, but i want to put on atleast 10 more lbs before i do so.
> 
> what do you suggest mudge?



well run a bulker, 10 weeks of test should be fine for this, take a little time off to maintain your gains, let your HPTA recover etc... then run a cutter

FYI that is what i plan to do later on this year, but i'm cutting without the AS first, because A) i can't stand being at 16% bodyfat, i look chubby as hell being an ectomorph with more than a couple of pounds of fat on me! and B) to reduce the possibility of gyno and edema on my first cycle


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## mattydubs (Mar 31, 2005)

young d,

1. what are the names of some cutters?

2. what are the name of some bulkers?

3. what combos should i use?

4. for how long?

cut is what i want, i've made the decision


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## mattydubs (Mar 31, 2005)

and can i use sus as a bulker if i cycle for 10 weeks?


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## Mudge (Mar 31, 2005)

mattydubs said:
			
		

> ideally i'd like to bulk then cut.  this is not possible?



Of course, but when you say put on 20 pounds AND lose bodyfat you sound like you are asking to do both at the same time. You might be talking 30 total pounds there since you are trying to eventually add 20 pounds to your frame.

Bulking or cutting is almost purely dietary.


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## mattydubs (Mar 31, 2005)

ok so mudge... you are seriously helping me undestand this more and i wanna thank you for that, bro.  if i'm an idiot, tell me, but this is what i have in mind:

i'm gonna obviously start off by bulking: i'm THINKING 10 weeks sus 250 a week, THEN upping to 500 week 3-6, THEN back to 250 until week tenth week when i stop.  My diet will be mainly carbs.

cut: chicken, fish, meat with little/no carbs using sus 500 mg a week for 6 weeks.

suggestions?   accurate for bulk>cut?


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## Sherpa (Mar 31, 2005)

*cutting*

Since this is your first cycle, and you havent tried it before. Try Just using diet to cut. Thats what I do. After pct from your first cycle, and some time off "when your weight / gains are stable". Lower you calories by around 500 a day for a couple of weeks, and continue to work out as usual. 

If that doesnt work for you, lower your calories 500 more per day, and continue until your as cut as you would like. Then up your calories by the amount you cut out when you started cutting, and you were staying the same weight, then you should stay where you want to be. 


Sherpa.


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## mattydubs (Mar 31, 2005)

diet is a lot bigger than i though.  thankyou sherpa that makes a lot of sense.


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## Mudge (Mar 31, 2005)

I would run the same dose throughout, there is no need to taper, it doesn't help recovery.

I have had up to 60% of my dietary calories as carbs, I dont know what you mean "mainly carbs" exactly but keep in mind muscle is made up of proteins, not carbs. So keep the protein somewhat high as well, 1.5 grams per pound or thereabouts is a decent figure.


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## mattydubs (Mar 31, 2005)

done.  i just want to be sure to put on the 20-30 fast.  i know cutting and maintaining will be the hardest part.  do you think i can do it with just sus? you reccomend 250 a week?


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## Tha Don (Mar 31, 2005)

mattydubs said:
			
		

> done.  i just want to be sure to put on the 20-30 fast.  i know cutting and maintaining will be the hardest part.  do you think i can do it with just sus? you reccomend 250 a week?



i'd go with 500mg a week if possible


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## kopkous (Jun 25, 2009)

hey guys im 21 years old,180lbs,9%bf and im going on my first course of gear,sus250.i wanted to know if i can inject 125mg twice a week so i dont have to take 500 a week,this would mean opening the vial and leaving 125mg til my second injection later that week.is this safe,will the sus lose its potency?
also i got proviron as a pct that i was told to start taking two weeks before i end my ten week cycle.is this sufficient and correct? any information would be greatly apprecieated.thanks


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## VictorZ06 (Jun 25, 2009)

Don't keep an open amp full, put the left over oil in a syringe.  Vials are ok.

Take proviron while on cycle, not for PCT.

Ugh...wait, you are only 21.  Scratch that...don't use AAS.

/V


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