# Fat-Burning Drugs



## M.J.H. (Dec 7, 2004)

I am really really serious about entering this best-body competition at a local club/bar in about 5 weeks. And of course my diet for whatever reason is never all that great. And I really need to drop about 15 lbs. of flab. 

Anything you guys recommend? I have taken M1T in the past, S1+, and usnic acid, along with a few other things. 

I have considered Clen, but I am not so sure about it. I am looking for something decently priced that pretty much melts fat off your body. Advice?


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## LAM (Dec 7, 2004)

in that short of a time frame either usnic acid or DNP


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## M.J.H. (Dec 7, 2004)

So usnic acid or DNP would be a better bet than Clen? What would you recommend I take it with LAM? What kind of dosage? Should I take it with milk thistle, what kind of cycle, etc. I can generally tolerate fat-burners very well. For example I was taking 500mg of sodium usinate without a problem at all.


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## Mudge (Dec 7, 2004)

Clen is going to be shit by comparison man.


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## M.J.H. (Dec 7, 2004)

Thanks Mudge, so I guess usnic acid/sodium usinate is my best bet, hands down then. Anyone know of any good sources? I used to know of one, but it changed names.


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## LAM (Dec 7, 2004)

check your PM's bro...


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## tucker01 (Dec 7, 2004)

What about Triac?


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## Twin Peak (Dec 7, 2004)

Its suggest a strong androgen and cytomel, personally.  Add in a ton of whey, low fat and moderate carbs, and you are done.


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## Duncans Donuts (Dec 7, 2004)

What is usnic acid, anyway?


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## LAM (Dec 7, 2004)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> What is usnic acid, anyway?



it's a naturally occurring metabolite that can be found in specific lichen species and kombucha tea...


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## Duncans Donuts (Dec 7, 2004)

Oh.


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## LAM (Dec 7, 2004)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> Oh.



sorry bro...

fungus + algae = linchen


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## Duncans Donuts (Dec 7, 2004)

Through what pathyway does it assist in fat metabolism?


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## LAM (Dec 7, 2004)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> Through what pathyway does it assist in fat metabolism?



it uncouples oxidative phosphorylation and in response the body steps up ATP production and increases the metabolism...


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## LAM (Dec 7, 2004)

the shit works awesome ! I used it about 6 month ago and lost about 3% body fat in 5 weeks while eating ice cream, cake and cheesecake several nights a week (gf has the sweettooth)...


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## Twin Peak (Dec 7, 2004)

Uncoupler.


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## Cardinal (Dec 7, 2004)

If you don't want to source out tabs, you can always get liothyronine sodium (t3) as a research chemical fairly cheaply.  Same with clenbuterol.  Both are cheap enough to get some to keep onhand and you can experiment with clen just over the course of a few days and see how you like it.

Of the heavy hitters, clen is the only one I have direct experience with.  I think that it is certainly something worth trying at some point.  It is however very potent in comparison to ephedrine imo and you gotta be really careful dosing it if you get liquid.  I don't plan on exceeding 40-60mcg/day of clenbuterol.  Then again, I have a lower tolerance for stimulants in general.  fyi, I get much better appetite suppression using clen than ephedrine.  Something you might be interested in.

Also, don't forget the possibility of using something like a simple Nicotine patch to help with appetite (not necessarily stacked with other crap).


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## Pirate! (Dec 7, 2004)

Twin Peak said:
			
		

> Its suggest a strong androgen and cytomel, personally.  Add in a ton of whey, low fat and moderate carbs, and you are done.


I concur. T3 and test is the way to go. If it is to be one of these two, I'd pick DNP over UA this time of year. You can get UA here: http://www.cjintnllabsupply.com/orderpage/orderpage.html
Here is a good article for doing a first cycle of DNP: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=2159
By the way, these all have potential negative health effects.


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## Mudge (Dec 7, 2004)

Cardinal said:
			
		

> I don't plan on exceeding 40-60mcg/day of clenbuterol.  Then again, I have a lower tolerance for stimulants in general.  fyi, I get much better appetite suppression using clen than ephedrine.



I've done 200mcg in a single hit, its not that hardcore. Appetite suppression? Never heard of it, never experienced it.

My friend who is a WOMAN was doing 300mcg a day, with ketotifen.


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## M.J.H. (Dec 7, 2004)

Okay now I am at the point where I am deciding whether I should get Cytomel, DNP, or sodium usinate, and I am also considering T3.


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## LAM (Dec 7, 2004)

for 5 weeks DNP or UA will burn the most fat off you...


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## M.J.H. (Dec 7, 2004)

I am still a little tempted to try Clenbuterol, just because I have never taken it before.


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## LAM (Dec 7, 2004)

Ranking in terms of fat loss

#1 - DNP
#2 - UA
#3- T3
#4 - Clenbuterol


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## Duncans Donuts (Dec 7, 2004)

Where do I get UA?  Is must be legal if it's found naturally in plant life (or whatever)...what kind of doses are appropriate?


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## topolo (Dec 7, 2004)

try trimax!!!!!!!!


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## LAM (Dec 7, 2004)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> Where do I get UA?  Is must be legal if it's found naturally in plant life (or whatever)...what kind of doses are appropriate?



due to some bad press by the FDA just about any OTC supp that contains UA has been pulled.

I tapered up from 200 mg/ED to 500 mg/ED (took about a week) then ran it at 500 mg/ED for another 4 weeks.


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## topolo (Dec 7, 2004)

here is a ua source for you

http://www.cjintnllabsupply.com


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## Mudge (Dec 7, 2004)

MonStar said:
			
		

> I am still a little tempted to try Clenbuterol, just because I have never taken it before.



Its not suck ass really but I'd rather do T3 if I ran a single thing alone, but using higher doses becomes catabolic.

I also prefer the sides of T3 (sweats, occasional hot flashing) to feeling like I'm on speed.


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## BoneCrusher (Dec 7, 2004)

SO clen gives you a speed feeling?  Does this include a loss of sleep or a hard time getting rest?


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## BoneCrusher (Dec 7, 2004)

I too would prefer the hot flashes to a loss of sleep ...


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## Cardinal (Dec 7, 2004)

I believe the half-life of clenbuterol is about 36 hours.  Its kind of an individual thing as to whether or not it effects sleeping patterns.  To some extent though, of course it does.  I mean you are looking at a fairly strong stimulant here.

I have had one night of total insomnia from it thusfar.

Clen gives me the shakes badly.  They are kind of fun to deal with though honestly.  From what I understand it is not 'exactly' like a speed feeling.  Just as ephedrine does not exactly give a speed feeling.

Some people experience GI distress taking T3.  That is one I am interested in trying myself.  My main concern would be potential strength loss from it.  I suppose a powerful anabolic would take care of that though =D


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## Mudge (Dec 7, 2004)

I have never done "the draino" so I was speaking figuratively, the rapid heart rate though I am just not into as feeling as if its all that great.

Clen is ok but its not all that, if I were to do only one "mild" drug alone it would be T3, on some kind of anabolic support.


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## Mudge (Dec 7, 2004)

BoneCrusher said:
			
		

> SO clen gives you a speed feeling?  Does this include a loss of sleep or a hard time getting rest?



I NEVER do clen or T3 at night, always in the morning and I train at night.


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## Cardinal (Dec 7, 2004)

Yep.  I get the rapid heartbeat also and am not too much of a fan of that one.  I don't experience that with ephedrine.  T3 does look like the way to go.  I too would prefer its list of sides.  If i ever get around to committing to run a cutter, I will give it a go for sure.


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## I'm Trying (Dec 7, 2004)

LAM said:
			
		

> in that short of a time frame either usnic acid or DNP



Are either of these legal??


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## Mudge (Dec 7, 2004)

DNP is an explosive and sales are controlled, Usnic Acid is readily available otherwise I would have deleted the source posted in this thread.


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## I'm Trying (Dec 8, 2004)

Mudge said:
			
		

> DNP is an explosive and sales are controlled, Usnic Acid is readily available otherwise I would have deleted the source posted in this thread.


YGAPM Mudge...


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## MTN WARRIOR (Dec 8, 2004)

Could someone PM me how to locate T3


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## Cardinal (Dec 8, 2004)

You can get it legally as a research chemical.  I think ibenutrition has it among many other places.  Same place you would find tamoxifen citrate, clomiphene citrate etc. will often have t3 as well.


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## Mudge (Dec 8, 2004)

PirateFromHell said:
			
		

> I concur. T3 and test is the way to go. If it is to be one of these two, I'd pick DNP over UA this time of year. You can get UA here: http://www.cjintnllabsupply.com/orderpage/orderpage.html
> Here is a good article for doing a first cycle of DNP: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=2159
> By the way, these all have potential negative health effects.



Really... I was thinking it was like putting cinnamon on my oatmeal


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## topolo (Dec 8, 2004)

Of course UA is legal........or I would have never posted the source, plus Mudge would kick my ass!


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## I'm Trying (Dec 8, 2004)

topolo said:
			
		

> Of course UA is legal........or I would have never posted the source, plus Mudge would kick my ass!


I missed your link when I posted that.


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## I'm Trying (Dec 8, 2004)

Here is a good article/link I found...http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349


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## redspy (Dec 8, 2004)

MTN WARRIOR said:
			
		

> Could someone PM me how to locate T3


YGM


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## eajcb (Dec 8, 2004)

Is UA and sodium usinate the same thing? If not how do they differ?? 
If I was going to use sodium usinate for max fat burning, what dose would you recommend??


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## Pirate! (Dec 8, 2004)

Mudge said:
			
		

> Really... I was thinking it was like putting cinnamon on my oatmeal


You are the one always telling people how deadly DNP is.


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## Mudge (Dec 8, 2004)

Someone ran a low dose experiment with only 200mg a day, he quit prematurely because he had climbed to 102º

It just requires knowlege and care, research research. I may never touch it, dunno.


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## PreMier (Dec 8, 2004)

Mudge said:
			
		

> Someone ran a low dose experiment with only 200mg a day, he quit prematurely because he had climbed to 102º
> 
> It just requires knowlege and care, research research. I may never touch it, dunno.



I was reading on LOI, that it made a guys eyesight go bad.  And that he was all for it, untill that happened.

I dont think I would ever dabble with it.


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## Mudge (Dec 8, 2004)

Do you have the thread perhaps? Or remember how exactly they went bad?


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## PreMier (Dec 8, 2004)

Yea.


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## Mudge (Dec 9, 2004)

Thanks PreMier, basically the guy says that he was 20/20 his WHOLE life until a cycle of DNP left him very nearsighted, he can't read signs until he is 20-30 feet away now at best. He says he spoke with an admin of another board who had the same issue, thanks for passing that onto me.

DEFENDANT ARRESTED IN INDIANA AND CHARGED WITH SELLING DNP; TOXIC WEIGHT LOSS DRUG OVER THE INTERNET - BALDWIN, LONG ISLAND, RESIDENT DIES AFTER INGESTING THE DRUG 

ALAN VINEGRAD, United States Attorney for the Eastern District of New York, and STEWART McGEE, Special Agent-in-Charge, United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA), Office of Criminal Investigations, today announced the arrest in Bloomington, Indiana, of SEAN ZHANG on charges of selling a misbranded and adulterated drug over the Internet. The drug, dinitrophenol, commonly known as "DNP"; is a highly toxic chemical normally used in the manufacture of dyes and wood preservatives and as a pesticide, and has recently been promoted as a weight loss drug favored particularly by bodybuilders. A federal grand jury in Central Islip, New York, returned a two-count indictment against ZHANG on September 19, 2001. Last Friday, FDA agents from New York, Maryland, and Chicago field offices, with assistance from local police officers, arrested ZHANG without incident at his residence. Pursuant to a court ordered warrant, law enforcement agents also searched his residence and seized a quantity of DNP, a pill counting machine, encapsulating tools, empty pill capsules, and three computers.

The federal investigation began after the Nassau County Police Department notified agents at the FDA's Office of Criminal Investigations of the August 6, 2001 death of Eric Perrin, a 22-year-old Baldwin, Long Island, resident. The Nassau County Medical Examiner's preliminary toxicology report disclosed that DNP was present in Perrin's vital organs. The investigation revealed that Perrin had purchased capsules of DNP from "dnp101" at Gaithersburg, Maryland, an Internet chat room that caters to bodybuilding enthusiasts. Four of those capsules were retrieved by law enforcement from Perrin's residence and have since tested positive for DNP. According to the FDA, when ingested, DNP is toxic to the liver, kidney and nervous system, and can cause increased body temperature, dehydration, rapid heartbeat, convulsions and death. (1) For additional information, contact the FDA at (301) 827-6250. 

The federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act makes it illegal to introduce into interstate commerce any drug that is adulterated or misbranded with the intent to defraud or mislead consumers, and further provides that a drug is deemed to be misbranded unless it contains labeling that provides adequate directions for its use and warnings where its use may be dangerous to the user's health. The government's two-count indictment alleges that ZHANG, doing business under the chat room name "dnp101," sold and shipped capsules of DNP to Eric Perrin on July 30, 2001 and September 8, 2001. According to the affidavit filed in support of the government's application for a warrant to search ZHANG's Bloomington, Indiana residence, ZHANG abruptly moved out of his prior residence in Gaithersburg, Maryland, in mid-August shortly after Mr. Perrin's death. The affidavit further alleges that ZHANG continued to operate over the Internet from his new residence, touting DNP as "the most effective tool available today for the loss of body fat."

In announcing the indictment and arrest, Mr. VINEGRAD thanked Timothy M. Morrison, the United States Attorney for the Southern District of Indiana, for his assistance, and stated,"adio0ZHANG's indictment and arrest should send a clear message to those who would profit from the sale of unapproved drugs that we will find you, arrest you, and vigorously prosecute you in order to protect the public health and safety. We urge everyone not to use this drug as a weight loss remedy, or to ingest it for any reason. Our deepest sympathy goes out to the family and friends of Eric Perrin."

Special Agent-in-Charge McGEE stated,"The FDA's Office of Criminal Investigations is committed to protecting the public health. This case is particularly unfortunate as a death resulted from one person's greed and total disregard for human life." This afternoon in Central Islip, New York, United States District Judge Arthur D. Spatt, to whom the case has been assigned, ordered the defendant to be placed on house arrest subject to electronic monitoring and a $100,000 bond pending his arraignment at the U. S. Courthouse in Central Islip on October 11, 2001.

If convicted, the defendant faces a maximum sentence of three years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine on each of the two counts in the indictment. (2)

The government's case is being prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorney James Miskiewicz.


Defendant: Sean Zhang 
Address: 1706 Williams Court, Bloomington, Indiana 
DOB: 4/20/77 


1. According to the FDA, the use of DNP in dietary preparations marketed in the 1930's, and the resulting deaths and injuries, led, in part, to the passage of the federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act in 1938. 

2. The charges contained in the indictment are merely allegations, and the defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty.


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## dj_diablo54 (Dec 9, 2004)

So I was going to try UA on a two week cycle on and off. For the first cycle i was going to split the dosage
500mg a day split up 12 hours apart depending how i reacted to that i would increase the dosage. Is this a good way to start or should i go an alternate route.


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## LAM (Dec 9, 2004)

no reason to cycle UA for 2 weeks on 2 weeks off...

depending on the size caps that you have I would start out a 200 mg a day (split the dosage if you have 100 mg caps). for 2 days then up to 300/400 mg for 2 days. then 500 mg/ED for 4 weeks straight...


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## dj_diablo54 (Dec 9, 2004)

Ok thanks LAM that sounds good I have 100mg caps so i can run this easily, should i be taking anything else with the UA ?


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## LAM (Dec 9, 2004)

dj_diablo54 said:
			
		

> Ok thanks LAM that sounds good I have 100mg caps so i can run this easily, should i be taking anything else with the UA ?



either r-ALA or ALA (300 mg/ED of r-ALA or 600 mg of ALA)

quercetin @ 500 mg/ED and Vitamin C @ 3 grams/ED


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## dj_diablo54 (Dec 9, 2004)

either r-ALA or ALA (300 mg/ED of r-ALA or 600 mg of ALA)

quercetin @ 500 mg/ED and Vitamin C @ 3 grams/ED



excuse my ignorance but what is r-ALA or ALA and Quercetin


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## Mudge (Dec 9, 2004)

Alpha Lipoic Acid, I forget what the R stands for other than it is superior to racemix (both types) or standard ALA. Some believe the race mix negates results. Diabetics use ALA in their multis.

Quercetin I dont know. Thats where Google comes in.


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## Mudge (Dec 9, 2004)

LAM said:
			
		

> no reason to cycle UA for 2 weeks on 2 weeks off...



The belief was liver strain, but some of these guys are running 1.2g a day.


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## LAM (Dec 9, 2004)

Mudge said:
			
		

> The belief was liver strain, but some of these guys are running 1.2g a day.



holly cow ! that is an insane amout of UA.  it's doses like that that cause people to suffer from liver failure due from compete shutdown of oxidative phosphoralation...


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## Duncans Donuts (Dec 9, 2004)

LAM, just checked out the old UA experiment thread you had.  Curious as to what kind of diet you were on when you lost the 2.25 percent body fat (besides having the nightly dessert)


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## LAM (Dec 9, 2004)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> LAM, just checked out the old UA experiment thread you had.  Curious as to what kind of diet you were on when you lost the 2.25 percent body fat (besides having the nightly dessert)



I can't remember but I'm pretty sure I was going isocaloric at that time.  But I usually up the protein to 40% of cals when I'm aiming for lets say 8-10% bf.  when I go lower than that then I up protein to about 55% of cals and add in 25 grams of BCAA's a day...


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## Mudge (Dec 9, 2004)

LAM said:
			
		

> holly cow ! that is an insane amout of UA.  it's doses like that that cause people to suffer from liver failure due from compete shutdown of oxidative phosphoralation...



Yeah thats pretty crazy all right


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## Pirate! (Dec 9, 2004)

LAM said:
			
		

> holly cow ! that is an insane amout of UA.  it's doses like that that cause people to suffer from liver failure due from compete shutdown of oxidative phosphoralation...


Hey, at least you will still have the substrate level phosphorylation.    We actually had a question about DNP on my Bio final today. Respiratory uncoupling is one of the fun things we get to learn about.


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## Mudge (Dec 19, 2004)

PirateFromHell said:
			
		

> http://www.cjintnllabsupply.com/orderpage/orderpage.html



Sodium usinate, not usnic acid specifically. So far I am not impressed, 6 days, 600mg ED. At least its not expensive.

Bummer.


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## gococksDJS (Dec 19, 2004)

PirateFromHell said:
			
		

> Hey, at least you will still have the substrate level phosphorylation.  We actually had a question about DNP on my Bio final today. Respiratory uncoupling is one of the fun things we get to learn about.


 You musn't forget that substrate level phosphorylation nets a relatively low amount of ATP, only two per glucose molecule, as opposed to oxidative phosphorylation, which nets 34-36


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## LAM (Dec 19, 2004)

*To all Clenbuterol users check this out !*

*{beta}2-Adrenergic receptor stimulation in vivo induces apoptosis in the rat heart and soleus muscle* -- Burniston et al., 10.1152/japplphysiol.00642.2004 -- Journal of Applied Physiology:

 1 Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool, United Kingdom
2 Academic Unit of Molecular Vascular Medicine, University of Leeds, Leeds, United Kingdom

* To whom correspondence should be addressed. E-mail: j.burniston@livjm.ac.uk.

High doses of the {beta}2-adrenergic receptor (AR) agonist, clenbuterol, can induce necrotic myocyte death in the heart and slow-twitch skeletal muscle of the rat. However, it is not known if this agent can also induce myocyte apoptosis and whether this would occur at a lower dose than previously reported for myocyte necrosis. Male Wistar rats were given single subcutaneous injections of clenbuterol. Immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte specific apoptosis (detected on cryosections using a caspase 3 antibody and confirmed using annexin V, single-strand DNA labelling and TUNEL). Myocyte apoptosis was first detected at 2 h, and peaked 4 h after clenbuterol administration. The lowest dose of clenbuterol to induce cardiomyocyte apoptosis was 1 µg kg-1, with peak apoptosis (0.35 ± 0.005 %; P<0.05) occurring in response to 5 mg kg-1. In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 ± 2 %; P<0.05) was induced by the lower dose of 10 µg kg-1. Cardiomyocyte apoptosis occurred throughout the ventricles, atria and papillary muscles. However, this damage was most abundant in the left ventricular subendocardium at a point 1.6 mm, that is, approximately one-quarter of the way from the apex towards the base. {beta}-AR antagonism (involving propranolol, bisoprolol or ICI 118,551) or reserpine was used to show that clenbuterol-induced myocardial apoptosis was mediated through neuromodulation of the sympathetic system and the cardiomyocyte {beta}1-AR, whereas in the soleus direct stimulation of the myocyte {beta}2-AR was involved. These data show that when administered in vivo, {beta}2-AR stimulation by clenbuterol is detrimental to cardiac and skeletal muscles even at low doses, by inducing apoptosis through {beta}1- and {beta}2-AR, respectively.


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## Duncans Donuts (Dec 19, 2004)

> You musn't forget that substrate level phosphorylation nets a relatively low amount of ATP, only two per glucose molecule, as opposed to oxidative phosphorylation, which nets 34-36



Translation?


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## gococksDJS (Dec 19, 2004)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> Translation?


 haha, it's cellular respiration, or how the body makes ATP, and has nothing to do with this thread.


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## Pirate! (Dec 19, 2004)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> Translation?


My Biology Balls are bigger than yours.


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## Pirate! (Dec 19, 2004)

Mudge said:
			
		

> Sodium usinate, not usnic acid specifically. So far I am not impressed, 6 days, 600mg ED. At least its not expensive.
> 
> Bummer.


Sorry to hear that.   I wouldn't use it myself. I just kept the link that topolo posted some time ago. I'd rather use DNP, personally.


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## Pirate! (Dec 19, 2004)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> You musn't forget that substrate level phosphorylation nets a relatively low amount of ATP, only two per glucose molecule, as opposed to oxidative phosphorylation, which nets 34-36


 I don't think you could get 36 ATP per glucose molecule from oxidative phosphorylation. What is your field of study, BTW?


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## redspy (Dec 19, 2004)

LAM said:
			
		

> *{beta}2-Adrenergic receptor stimulation in vivo induces apoptosis in the rat heart and soleus muscle* -- Burniston et al., 10.1152/japplphysiol.00642.2004 -- Journal of Applied Physiology:
> 
> 1 Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool, United Kingdom
> 2 Academic Unit of Molecular Vascular Medicine, University of Leeds, Leeds, United Kingdom
> ...


I saw this over at CEM, scary stuff.  I tossed away my clen a couple of weeks ago because of health concerns.  Glad that I did.


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## Duncans Donuts (Dec 19, 2004)

Can someone speak to me, in complicated but not excessively so terms, about how exactly UA or Sodium Usinc acts as a fat burner ?


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## Mudge (Dec 19, 2004)

I though that was already done, its a mitochondrial uncoupler like UCP-1. It makes the use of food for energy very inneficient, making caloric burn to obtain energy from food sources lose around 50% efficiency. Takes money to make money, takes calories to obtain calories.

Will usnic acid be banned next?
Anthony Almada

May 2004 


The tenacity with which some nutraceutical formulators and marketers search for novel weight loss-inducing agents is striking. One of the more recent illustrations is the inclusion of usnic acid, as a sodium salt or the free acid, in dietary supplements claiming to have anti-obesity effects. The Food and Drug Administration has its sights set on it as a candidate for market removal, following the fate of ephedra and, potentially, bitter orange and aristolochic acid. (Bitter orange was discussed on this page in the April issue, and aristolochic acid will be discussed next month.)

Its start as a supplement
Usnic acid (UA) is a polyphenol expressed by a variety of lichens. Additionally, UA has been described in hops resin and Kombucha tea.1,2 

The genesis of UA???s positioning as a weight-loss nutraceutical appears to emanate from a single paper employing in vitro assessments of UA as an ???uncoupling agent??? in mouse liver mitochondria.3 

Uncoupling agents effectively render the process of aerobic metabolism in mitochondria???which couples oxidation of metabolic fuels to the attachment of phosphate groups to ATP precursors, yielding ATP, the axial molecule of bioenergetics???less efficient and thus energy is ???leaked??? out. This manifests as heat and an increase in metabolic rate, known as thermogenesis.

In this in vitro study, UA was shown to be more potent than an infamous uncoupler, 2,4-dinitrophenol (DNP). DNP was sold as a drug in the 1930s in the United States, the product of studies at Stanford University showing a relationship between dose, metabolic rate increase and weight loss.4

In these studies, weight loss (without any dietary control) averaged 7.8kg without any apparent effects on food consumption. Hypertensive subjects also experienced significant decreases in blood pressure. However, the widespread use of DNP eventually led to its procurement without medical supervision, and the sharp dose-dependent relationship on metabolic rate led to some individuals being ???cooked to death,??? which led to its subsequent removal from the market.

Effects on the liver
In the above study comparing UA to DNP, UA was about 50 times more potent an uncoupler. This single in vitro study, despite the absence of any in vivo studies examining UA???s effect upon thermogenesis or body weight, fostered a number of dietary supplements incorporating pure UA or its sodium salt. Most notable was a product called LipoKinetix, which was associated with severe chemical hepatitis (elevated liver enzymes in blood, jaundice, vomiting) in seven previously healthy men and women.5 The duration of use in this cohort ranged from 10 days to 12 weeks. LipoKinetix was comprised of phenylpropanolamine, sodium usnate, a thyroid hormone precursor, diiodothyronine, yohimbine and caffeine. Thus, attributing the acute hepatotoxicity to UA alone is unfounded. Notably, after each of the subjects ceased using this product, their liver enzyme profiles normalised.

Recent research has subjected mouse liver cells to UA in vitro and found both oxidative stress and toxicity, which could be prevented by the pre-addition of a fat-soluble antioxidant like alpha-tocopheryl succinate (vitamin E).6 Interestingly, DNP also showed similar oxidative and toxic effects, which were in fact not mitigated by vitamin E.

Another study found high-dose (200mg/kg) injections of UA for five days had no significant effect on blood liver enzymes but a demonstrable effect on liver cell size and shape, indicative of a toxic effect.7

One area of promising use for UA in hepatology is with an inherited metabolic defect called tyrosinemia I, an often-fatal fibrotic liver disease marked by disordered collagen metabolism. Recent investigations suggest that UA, which inhibits the plant form of the deranged enzyme characteristic of this disease, may indeed be a candidate for clinical therapy.8,9

Anthony Almada is president and chief scientific officer of IMAGINutrition Inc. www.imaginutrition.com 
Respond: editor@ffnmag.com

References
1. Stevens R. The chemistry of hop constituents. Chem Rev 1966;67:19-71.
2. Blanc PJ. Characterization of the tea fungus metabolites. Biotech Lett 1996;18:139-42.
3. Abo-Khatwa AN, et al. Lichen acids as uncouplers of oxidative phosphorylation of mouse-liver mitochondria. Nat Toxins 1996;4:96-102.
4. Tainter ML, et al. Dinitrophenol in the treatment of obesity: final report. J Am Med Assoc 1933;101:322-36.
5. Favreau JT, et al. Severe hepatotoxicity associated with the dietary supplement LipoKinetix. Ann Intern Med 2002;136:590-5.
6. Han D, et al. Usnic acid-induced necrosis of cultured mouse hepatocytes: inhibition of mitochondrial function and oxidative stress. Biochem Pharmacol 2004;67:439-51.
7. Pramyothin P, et al. Hepatotoxic effect of (+)usnic acid from Usnea siamensis Wainio in rats, isolated rat hepatocytes and isolated rat liver mitochondria. J Ethnopharm 2004;90:381-7.
8. Hanauske-Abel HM, et al. Tyrosinemia I, a model for human diseases mediated by 2-oxoacid-utilizing dioxygenases: hepatotoxin suppression by NTBC does not normalize hepatic collagen metabolism. J Pediatr Gastroenterol Nutr 2002;35:73-8. 
9. Romagni JG, et al. The phytotoxic lichen metabolite, usnic acid, is a potent inhibitor of plant p-hydroxyphenylpyruvate dioxygenase. FEBS Lett 2000;480:301-5.

See also: www.usnicacid.net


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## topolo (Dec 19, 2004)

UA really did nothing for me either.......I agree with Mudge


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## Mudge (Dec 19, 2004)

I am only at day six with this sodium usinate @ 600mg ED but I expected more.

What was your dose and time duration?

I'm on a chicken breast, brown rice diet with olive oil and fish oil as my fats. I do allow 4 eggs in the AM other than that, no regular saturated fats are in my diet. Carbs are about 250 per day.


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## Duncans Donuts (Dec 19, 2004)

I'm on day 6...my temperature usually stays elevated to 99.8 degrees for hours after ingesting it.  On a calorie deficit I've had great results so far.  I'm lost about a quarter inch around my navel (I'm really restricting the calories big time though)  I'm doing 500 mg/ed.


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## Mudge (Dec 20, 2004)

1/4" for me as well, which is not at all impressive compared to T3. In fact at my peak I can drop that much in a DAY on T3 and I was doing 60mcg at that time.

My bodyweight is unchanged, I'm still doing under 3k calories a day.


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## dj_diablo54 (Dec 20, 2004)

Are you guys splinting up your dosages or taking the entire mg in one serving?


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## Duncans Donuts (Dec 20, 2004)

Mudge said:
			
		

> 1/4" for me as well, which is not at all impressive compared to T3. In fact at my peak I can drop that much in a DAY on T3 and I was doing 60mcg at that time.
> 
> My bodyweight is unchanged, I'm still doing under 3k calories a day.



I've been on my so called cut for about a month and a half now.  I'd dropped from 35 1/2 to 34 in that time and dropped a little more than a quarter of that since the UA in only a week.  Seemed like a pretty reasonable loss to me, but if you could drop an inch in a day on t3..that does seem pretty weak in relation.

I'm doing 200 mg when I wake, 100 mg in the afternoon, and 200 mg before bed.


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## Mudge (Dec 20, 2004)

dj_diablo54 said:
			
		

> Are you guys splinting up your dosages or taking the entire mg in one serving?



I was splitting, now I am doing it all in the AM. I thought I was feeling some warmth from the sodium usinate but now I am not so sure. I went from a moderately dirty diet to a clean diet with a reasonable level of carbs for a 240-243 pound guy, so I would attribute any fat loss to the diet change and not the sodium usinate.

So at this point, for me, 600mg a day is shit OR the product I got was shit. My T3 fun ended up putting me at about 2 inches lost in 4 weeks, not an insane amount compared to DNP or anything, but my diet was not ultra clean and my T3 doses were not that high at all.

I did not say an inch a day bro, that WOULD be insanity.


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## Pirate! (Dec 20, 2004)

Mudge, why didn't you use higher doses of T3? You didn't ramp down either, right?


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## Mudge (Dec 20, 2004)

No reason to ramp down when a blood test showed that even 25mcg hit TSH badly. I had no rebound problems, but I wasn't on it for 4 months like some do either.

Why didn't I use more? I dunno, it was working fine. Next time I use it I may try more if it doesn't rip muscle off me.


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## Deezus (Dec 21, 2004)

Any links to threads discussing what T3 is? Tried foru search but didnt give me any results.


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## Vieope (Dec 21, 2004)

MonStar said:
			
		

> I am really really serious about entering this best-body competition at a local club/bar in about 5 weeks.


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## Mudge (Dec 21, 2004)

Deezus said:
			
		

> Any links to threads discussing what T3 is? Tried foru search but didnt give me any results.



Thyroid hormone. There is also T2 and T4, T4 converts into T3 about 20-25% inside the body. Supposedly though this is on an as-needed basis, making it inefective once you are somewhat normal. It seems to work for people only during a shorter period, where T3 always does the job.


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## Deezus (Dec 21, 2004)

is it legal? any more information link you can pass on? Thank yuh.


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## Mudge (Dec 21, 2004)

Easy to obtain but its still medicinal.

800mg on the sodium usinate today, single dose, cookin a bit - sweaty, 8th day.

I will probably do 500x2 tomorow, still highly unimpressed.


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## M.J.H. (Jan 11, 2005)

Just bought some usnic acid, I am thinking 200mg preworkout and 200mg before bed. How does that sound?


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## LAM (Jan 11, 2005)

MonStar said:
			
		

> Just bought some usnic acid, I am thinking 200mg preworkout and 200mg before bed. How does that sound?



I don't think taking it pre WO will have any added effect.  I always just took 1/2 when I woke up and the other 1/2 before bed...


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## M.J.H. (Jan 11, 2005)

Oh okay LAM, sounds good man. Does 200mg twice a day sound okay to you? Or would you recommend 300mg twice a day?


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## Vise (Jan 17, 2005)

a study i found on ua:

Biochem Pharmacol. 2004 Feb 1;67(3):439-51.  Related Articles, Links  


Usnic acid-induced necrosis of cultured mouse hepatocytes: inhibition of mitochondrial function and oxidative stress.

Han D, Matsumaru K, Rettori D, Kaplowitz N.

USC-UCLA Research Center for Alcoholic and Pancreatic Disease and University of Southern California Research Center for Liver Diseases, Keck School of Medicine, University of Southern California, 2011 Zonal Avenue, HMR 101, Los Angeles, CA 90089-9121, USA.

Usnic acid, a lichen acid, is a compound found in crude medicines and dietary supplements, including Lipokinetix, a supplement marketed as a weight loss agent that caused hepatotoxicity and acute liver failure in patients. In this study, we examined the toxicity of usnic acid and assessed whether usnic acid may be contributing to hepatotoxicity caused by Lipokinetix. In primary cultured murine hepatocytes, usnic acid treatment (5 microM) resulted in 98% necrosis within 16 hr (no apoptosis was detected). Usnic acid treatment was associated with early inhibition and uncoupling of the electron transport chain in mitochondria of cultured hepatocytes. This inhibition of mitochondria by usnic acid corresponded with a fall in ATP levels in hepatocytes. In isolated liver mitochondria, usnic acid was observed to directly inhibit and uncouple oxidative phosphorylation. Oxidative stress appears to be central in usnic acid-induced hepatotoxicity based on the following findings: (1) pretreatment with antioxidants (butylated hydroxytoluene+Vitamin E) decreased usnic acid-induced necrosis by nearly 70%; (2) depletion of mitochondrial GSH with diethylmaleate increased susceptibility of hepatocytes to usnic acid; (3) usnic acid treatment was associated with increase free radical generation, measured using the fluorescent probe, dichlorodihydrofluorescin. The source of reactive oxygen species after usnic acid treatment include autoxidation of usnic acid and increased hydrogen peroxide generation by mitochondria caused by usnic acid inhibition of the respiratory chain, with the latter playing a more prominent role. Taken together, our results suggest that usnic acid is a strong hepatotoxic agent that triggers oxidative stress and disrupts the normal metabolic processes of cells. Usnic acid therefore may contribute to the hepatotoxic effects of Lipokinetix and its use in any supplement must come into question.

PMID: 15037196 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## Revolution Max (Feb 10, 2005)

DONT ASK FOR SOURCES ON THE BOARD

Read the rules, there aren't many to have to remember.


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## Twin Peak (Feb 10, 2005)

Sledge (Designer Supps) should have a non-toxic uncoupler coming out in March.


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## topolo (Feb 10, 2005)

really.........cool


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## Twin Peak (Feb 10, 2005)

Yes, he has a bunch of interesting stuff in the works, but this is one I am particularly curious about.


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## PreMier (Feb 10, 2005)

Revolution Max said:
			
		

> DONT ASK FOR SOURCES ON THE BOARD
> 
> Read the rules, there aren't many to have to remember.


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## PreMier (Feb 10, 2005)

Twin Peak said:
			
		

> Sledge (Designer Supps) should have a non-toxic uncoupler coming out in March.



Will he be doing a testing period?  Will you be a tester?


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## Twin Peak (Feb 10, 2005)

I believe he has done some testing already, and he just got in a small supply of the active, for which he will do final alpha testing.  I am not sure if I will get some of this or not (depends on how much he has).  Since I named it, I better at least get some of the next batch!


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## njc (Feb 10, 2005)

Do these weight loss drugs u guys are talking about spare muscle tissue, or do you lose some muscle as well?


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