# OTC Pro Hormone/Steroid chart



## lucifuge (Aug 15, 2008)

Thanks to Ziquor, a Competitive Edge Labs Rep on Anabolicminds for allowing us to post this.
DG

came across this on another site, figured it could be helpful to some folks


Nomenclature/Chemical naming info:

For reference:

etioallocholan  =  5a-androst  =  'a skeleton' or 'a isomer'

etiocholan  =  5b-androst  =  'b skeleton' or 'b isomer'

17beta-hydroxy  =  17b-ol

estra  =  19-norandrost



1-AD (1-androstenedione)		1-androstene-3b,17b-dione or androst-1-ene-3b,17b-dione

1-AD (1-androstenediol)		1-androstene-3b,17b-diol or androst-1-ene-3b,17b-diol

4-AD (4-androstenedione)		4-androstene-3b,17b-dione or 	androst-4-ene-3b,17b-dione

4-AD (4-androstenediol)		4-androstene-3b,17b-diol or androst-4-ene-3b,17b-diol

1,4AD (Boldione)			1,4-androstadiene-3b,17b-dione or androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-dione

M1,4AD (Dianadiol)			17a-methyl-1,4-androstadiene-3b,17b-diol or 17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol

19-Tren X (Pro-Dienolone)		19-norandrosta-4,9-diene-3b,17b-dione or estra-4,9-diene-3b,17b-dione

Max LMG				13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)-diene-17-one

Orastan-A (Furazabol THP)		5a-androstano[2,3-c]furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol ether

Orastan-E (Stanozol THP)		[3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17b-tetrahydropyranol

Halodrol-50 (Turinadiol)		4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol

Promagnon-25 (Methyl-Clostediol)	4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-4-ene-3b,17b-diol

Propadrol				12-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-diene-17 6-17 dihydroxyetiocholove-3-ol proponate

11-OXO (Adrenosterone)		4-androstene-3,11,17-trione or 11-oxo-androstenedione

Methoxy-TRN				17b-methoxy-trienbolone

Methoxy-TST				17b-methoxy-trienosterone

19-Nor (19-norandrostenediol)		19-nor-4-androsten-3b,17b-diol or 19-norandrost-4-ene-3b,17b-diol

5AA (5-alpha-androstanediol)		5a-androstane-3b,17b-diol

M5AA (Mestanolone)			17a-methyl-5a-androstanediol

3-Alpha (3-alpha-androstanediol)			5a-androstane-3alpha,17b-diol

M1T (Methyl 1-Test aka 17aa-1-testosterone)			17a-methyl-1-androstene-3-one-17b-ol or 17a-methyl-5a-androst-1-ene-3-one-17b-ol

Superdrol (Methyldrostanolone)		2a,17a-dimethyl-5a-androst-3-one-17b-ol or 2a,17a-dimethyl-etiocholan-3-one-17b-ol

Pheraplex (Madol or DMT)		17a-methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol or 17a-methyl-5a-androst-2-ene-17b-ol

Ergomax LMG (Ergo Matrix)		17a-methyl-delta-2-etioallocholane

Epithio (Havoc or Epistane)		2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol or 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-etioallocholan-17b-ol

Methyl-D (Methyl Dienolone)		17a-methyl-19-Norandrosta-4,9(10)-diene-3-one-17b-ol or 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-estra-4,9(10)-diene-3-one

M4OHN (Methylhydroxynandrolone)     17a-methyl-4-hydroxy-19-norandrost-4-ene-3-one or 17a-methyl-4-hydroxy-estra-4-ene-3-one

4OHT (hydroxytestosterone)     4-hydroxy-androst-4-ene-3-one-17b-ol or 4,17-dihydroxy-androst-4-ene-3-one

MDHT (methyl-DHT/mestanolone)     17a-methyl-5a-androstane-3-one































Below is information such as estimated half life and A:A ratio's on certain compounds. I'll update more as I find further info as much of it is compiled from original manufacturer claims and as such this should be used for reference purposes only. If anyone sees anything they can add or change please let me know.

Anabolic to Androgenic ratio's based on original manufacture claims and Vida info. Note many other unseen factors come into play that aren't apparent in the ratio's such as progesterone activity, and how 'strongly' a compound binds to the androgen receptors. For example Masteron has a relatively low A:A ratio and a pretty low androgenic # of about 25 but it binds very strongly and/or with high affinity compared to other compounds. Q-Factor is the anabolic # divided by androgenic #. Some anabolics are listed with a 'range' for the most accurate possible estimate. Methyl Testosterone is the oral of which all other orals are compared, just as IM Test is to other injectibles:


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## jwalk127 (Aug 15, 2008)

alot of great info. that can answer alot of questions for people.


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## lucifuge (Aug 15, 2008)

jwalk127 said:


> alot of great info. that can answer alot of questions for people.



Thats pretty much what I was thinking... now we just have to figure out a way to get them to actually _read_ it. lol


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## ZECH (Aug 15, 2008)

Stickied!


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## KelJu (Aug 15, 2008)

Holy shit! What a great find. I would love to know who composed this list and thank them, but I bet they wouldn't want to be found.


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## ZECH (Aug 15, 2008)

KelJu said:


> Holy shit! What a great find. I would love to know who composed this list and thank them, but I bet they wouldn't want to be found.



It came from Ziquor, a Competitive Edge Labs Rep on anabolicminds.


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## KelJu (Aug 15, 2008)

dg806 said:


> It came from Ziquor, a Competitive Edge Labs Rep on anabolicminds.



I'm a member there, but I haven't posted in a while.


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## Ziquor (Aug 18, 2008)

Hey great chart  

j/k I'm looking forward to spending some more time here, great resource


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## ZECH (Aug 19, 2008)

Great to have you here Ziquor. Hope you will spend some more time around here. Always good to have another CEL rep here also!


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## CG (Aug 26, 2008)

wow.. awesome chart.. made sense and a MUST read for newbies looking to learn ANYTHING.. great post


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## quark (Aug 26, 2008)

Good stuff! Thanks for posting!


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## seems (Oct 6, 2008)

Good one. Thanks and keep updating.


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## Ty_Durden (Nov 30, 2008)

*Difference between oral and injectable anabolics*

Can anyone tell me the key differences between injectable anabolics and oral anabolics? Are oral anabolics as potent as injectables?


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## Built (Nov 30, 2008)

Ty_Durden said:


> Can anyone tell me the key differences between injectable anabolics and oral anabolics? Are oral anabolics as potent as injectables?



My cursory understanding is as follows: liver toxicity. Orals have to survive digestion, so they're "alkylated", wherein an alkyl group (methyl or alkyl) is added to the alpha position of the 17 carbon skeleton of the steroid. Your liver breaks that part off - which is good, since that's what has to happen for your body to use the active, but bad, because your liver now has to deal with the hepatoxic alkyl group. 

You can surely get just as "strong" an effect from an oral, but if you're a guy, you'll have to take so much, you'll be at risk of liver damage: men are already men. You need to take enough to shut down your boys and THEN some. 

Females have no boys to shut down, and the doses women take are so small that liver toxicity isn't such a concern. 

For reference, a woman may take 2.5-12.5mg oxandrolone (Anavar) for a cycle. A man would likely need 40+mg daily for any kind of effect, and even then he'll likely stack it with something like test. 

I'm sure somebody far more schooled in these things than I will come in with something more helpful. My understanding of AAS pharmacodynamics is limited at best.


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## CellWarrior (Jan 1, 2009)

Thats the best info I have every came across for these. Whats next SERMS...?


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## Roaddkingg (Feb 7, 2009)

That is some great information. I spent a lot of time last night reading about all the differant pro-hormones available. Couldnt believe how many there are. I know this may be very hard but if just one company could be listed and the best from that company. What would it be. For least sides, decent gains, low water retention. Goal being strength, size and definition.


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## lola1182 (Apr 22, 2009)

good info, great read.. thanks!


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## Built (Apr 22, 2009)

Roaddkingg said:


> That is some great information. I spent a lot of time last night reading about all the differant pro-hormones available. Couldnt believe how many there are. I know this may be very hard but if just one company could be listed and the best from that company. What would it be. For least sides, decent gains, low water retention. Goal being strength, size and definition.


Gee, wait. So you want to be bigger AND stronger AND more defined, is that all?

Sounds easy enough???


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## mauricio24ny (Apr 28, 2009)

any help with avanar i just got it and i dont know anything about how to cycle it what to take with it my friend told me to take it everyday for 6 weeks and take testosterone boost with it then get something for my liver also some superpump 250 then i will be good to go i just want to know if this is true any help help with be well appreciated i just want to do it right thanks again for taking the time and read this


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## tatteredsaint (Apr 29, 2009)

excellent post on the chart that will save me a lot of typing


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## abomb555 (May 30, 2009)

lucifuge said:


> Thanks to Ziquor, a Competitive Edge Labs Rep on Anabolicminds for allowing us to post this.
> DG
> 
> came across this on another site, figured it could be helpful to some folks
> ...



beastdrol


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## egodog48 (May 30, 2009)

Quality post!  Lots of common questions answered


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## crazy_enough (Jun 17, 2009)

wow, what a GREAT post!


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## JonPiven (Nov 6, 2009)

crazy_enough said:


> wow, what a GREAT post!


+1 answered  few of my questions


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## Mags (Nov 25, 2009)

I know this is an old thread, but it's still a highly relevant one. I often come back here to check information. However, something's happened to the chart - is there anyway it can brought back? Hope so as it provided a lot of useful stuff.

Thanks in advance.


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## Built (Nov 25, 2009)

I'm working on it.

Please stand by...


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## Built (Nov 25, 2009)

here's the first five...


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## Built (Nov 25, 2009)

and the last one.


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## Built (Nov 25, 2009)

There you go. I uploaded them directly onto IMF, and then fixed the hyperlinks in the original post.


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## Mags (Nov 26, 2009)

Nice one - thanks a lot.


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## Built (Nov 26, 2009)

You're welcome. 

Next time you see dead photobucket links, you can almost always open them directly if you copy and paste the URL into your browser. That's what I did - then saved the images as jpgs and uploaded them onto the forum.


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## juggernaut (Dec 10, 2009)

problem with the PHs is that they are being banned making them harder to find and this will also lead to AAS usage amonst younger people who have business using either in the first place.


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## aja44 (Dec 12, 2009)

Looking for a bit of help putting together my next OTC PH cycle.  My first cycle consisted of:
4 weeks @ 6 tabs 1-Andro RX along with 6 tabs of Anabolic Matrix. (completed)
4 weeks @ 6 tabs Anabolic Matrix with 6 tabs of Novadex XT (2 weeks down)

I experienced great gains in strength, but not really in size.  I also saw very little in weight loss and my body fat went down very little.

From what I have read, 1-Andro RX is considered to be the best PH on the market.  I would like to give it a second chance and look to start another cycle in February which would be about 8 weeks off .  Can someone recommend a cycle and PCT?  I have read that stacking 1-Andro and 4-AD are recommended.  I also had someone at the gym recommend Slim Extreme for fat loss.  Any help would be appreciated.


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## juggernaut (Dec 12, 2009)

HDrol is a good "starter" and has virtually no sides to it. STAY AWAY from MDrol. It is liver toxic with a propensity to give you gyno. The tradeoff with PHs, is that harsher PHs will give you better results. I did both HDrol and MDrol and will never touch MDrol again. It killed my liver, but gave great gains. 

Use the search function and give me an idea of how you want to use HDrol, if you decide to use it.


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## aja44 (Dec 12, 2009)

Thanks for the reply Juggernaut.  Are you recommending stacking HDrol with 1-Andro RX?  I have read some good results on HDrol, but read and hear that 1-Androl is much stronger.  

I dont know that many people in my gym, only been here for about 5 months, so anything I buy I would need to have shipped.  I live in NY and although I would love to get the real thing, not interested in legal issues.  Can you recommend a stack, PCT and quantities?  Thanks,


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## Saney (Jan 2, 2010)

Mdrol killed your Liver? Does this mean i'll need a new one after 30mgs ED?


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## N_I_C_K (Mar 22, 2010)

Holy shit. I wish I knew what any of that meant......How does everyone understand all this?


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## juggernaut (Mar 23, 2010)

Saney said:


> Mdrol killed your Liver? Does this mean i'll need a new one after 30mgs ED?


I dont know if you're being a smartass so I'll just go ahead and answer for the uniformed, I said I felt the side effects of the mdrol, One of those is that it is a methylated steroid and as such, plays havoc on the liver. Side supports are needed so that the liver can function well. Taurine at 5g a day also helps. I will never use mdrol again, because even though I liked the gains, the sides made it a complete turnoff for me. Test is a much better option, provided you get what you pay for and as long as you know what you're doing-research the hell out of it, you;'ll get better quality gains.


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## juggernaut (Mar 23, 2010)

aja44 said:


> Thanks for the reply Juggernaut.  Are you recommending stacking HDrol with 1-Andro RX?  I have read some good results on HDrol, but read and hear that 1-Androl is much stronger.
> 
> I dont know that many people in my gym, only been here for about 5 months, so anything I buy I would need to have shipped.  I live in NY and although I would love to get the real thing, not interested in legal issues.  Can you recommend a stack, PCT and quantities?  Thanks,


I would try Andro RX by itself first. Take some time off after, adjust and then go with hdrol. What's the rush?


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## Saney (Mar 23, 2010)

Juggs, is "The ONE" any good?


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## juggernaut (Mar 23, 2010)

Saney said:


> Juggs, is "The ONE" any good?


 I did a quick google on the 17a-methyl-etioallocholan-17b-ol-3-hydroxyimine; it apparently has no estrogenic side effects, seems like a decent purchase...I'd say depending on your goals it might be worthwhile. go for it. Still, I like HDrol better for PH gains without side effects.


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## juggernaut (Mar 23, 2010)

HDrol with Tren works well too. I did that one back in 2002, and liked the cycle.


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## needtogetaas (Jun 25, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> HDrol with Tren works well too. I did that one back in 2002, and liked the cycle.


Hdrol being more of a pro hormone then a otc steroid though... It is a good compound and pretty under rated. Most pro hormones or otc steroids are ether under rated or under respected for the most part. 

 Personally I have 0 sides with superdrol other then a little bit of lethargy and some times some bacne. Everyone is different but superdrol is still one of the more harsh otc steroids on the list. 

 Some one had said that that is the trade of with pro homrones and otc steroids in this thread. IMO the same thing applies for any steroid when you think about it. The more powerful a steroid is the harsher it can be on some part of the system be it injected or taken oral. 

 Trans dermal is always a nice option though    provided the compound as a small enough molecular weight. 

 BTW great info in this thread, I have been a big fan of the otc compounds for a long time now. Anything we can do to stick it to the man ( if only for a wile) is a plus in my book.


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## mrrvau (Aug 8, 2010)

great info thanks


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## MDR (Aug 8, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> I dont know if you're being a smartass so I'll just go ahead and answer for the uniformed, I said I felt the side effects of the mdrol, One of those is that it is a methylated steroid and as such, plays havoc on the liver. Side supports are needed so that the liver can function well. Taurine at 5g a day also helps. I will never use mdrol again, because even though I liked the gains, the sides made it a complete turnoff for me. Test is a much better option, provided you get what you pay for and as long as you know what you're doing-research the hell out of it, you;'ll get better quality gains.



Mdrol just makes me feel tired and lousy in general.  Really tough to get through four weeks and remain productive with the sides.   Gains are great, but I feel like crap.  Very toxic stuff.


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## 240PLUS (Oct 17, 2010)

OOOKKKKK....so which ones are legal and which ones are not??? No smart ass answers please. I want some soon.


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## bigred123 (Jan 1, 2011)

Does anyone know how long it takes for 1-AD to be clear out of your system and be none detectable in a urine test ?


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## Good Grip (Jan 23, 2011)

Ah, this thread brings back memories for me. So the dust has settled and we still have some left ( Prohormones ) standing, but im really looking forward to the future- The Androseries Project from Primordial Performance, 100% dshea compliant.


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## HereToStudy (Jan 23, 2011)

Good Grip said:


> Ah, this thread brings back memories for me. So the dust has settled and we still have some left ( Prohormones ) standing, but im really looking forward to the future- The Androseries Project from Primordial Performance, 100% dshea compliant.



Patiently awaiting the arrival  I got a pretty long AndroMass cycle planned out .


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## Good Grip (Jan 24, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> Patiently awaiting the arrival  I got a pretty long AndroMass cycle planned out .


 
Nice bro. Im stuck because I have too many options. Ive got plenty of the "old line" left, and I want to combine them with the new Androseries line.


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## Pain (Feb 9, 2011)

*This will definitely help*

This will definitely make purchases easier to determine in the For sale Section! I appreciate your work. I printed them out for ease of use.
Thanks agqain
Pain-Is weakness leaving your mind and body


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## TGB1987 (Feb 12, 2011)

Great read.  Glad to be apart of such a great forum


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## SFW (Feb 12, 2011)

this could use some updating.


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## jersey2180 (Feb 14, 2011)

*Hello,*
*I have been trying to purchase Anavar substance but somehow all of the sites that i have ben to do not seem authentic. I visited Daddyroids and it seemed pretty legit but as I searched for review they seemed to not be. Does anyone know where I may purchase authentic substance and free from scams?*
*I would appreiate the help.*


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## jersey2180 (Feb 15, 2011)

*Hello,*
*I have been trying to purchase Anavar substance but somehow all of the sites that i have ben to do not seem authentic. I visited Daddyroids and it seemed pretty legit but as I searched for review they seemed to not be. Does anyone know where I may purchase authentic substance and free from scams?*
*I would appreiate the help.*


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## Pain (Feb 15, 2011)

*Thanks much appreciated*

Your putting this together has made understanding the chemical formulas a lot easier to memorize or keep in the Palm Pilot or Phone when out and about this makes making the correct purchase a breeze when at auctions and other like outlets.

I need just the right supps to keep this well weathered ole' warrior jammin and slammin

Pain


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## jus4u (May 6, 2011)

Excellent information....wished 1-AD was still avaliable


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## Nightowl (May 9, 2011)

Great tat by the way.

Can we have a class on 17?  I was  told by a chemist that graduated from Berkeley, that 17 because of the molecular structure is the bad part.  Can someone elaborate on 17?!?

thanx


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## Winny_ng 24/7 (May 20, 2011)

We need a thread like this about OTC PCT.


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## HereToStudy (May 20, 2011)

Winny_ng 24/7 said:


> We need a thread like this about OTC PCT.



Check out the Testosterone Recovery Stack. I personally recommend a SERM for many cycles, but some of the lighter ones can certainly use the TRS.


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## Winny_ng 24/7 (May 21, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> Check out the Testosterone Recovery Stack. I personally recommend a SERM for many cycles, but some of the lighter ones can certainly use the TRS.




I'm glad companies are making progress with OTC PCT. But for a 115$ I could get a whole lot more nolvadex and clomid. I hope to see more products like these just cheaper.


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## Saney (May 21, 2011)

for 115$ I could get about 70mls of Test Prop 100 delivered to me in less than a week..

Knowing that, who the fuck would buy Placebos?


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## Justinbro (May 28, 2011)

Has anyone seen an effectiveness chart with prohormones/prosterioids in it? I've been seeing some posts that PPlex is better than dbol. Would just love to see how they compare with old stand bys.


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## SFW (May 28, 2011)

> Has anyone seen an effectiveness chart with prohormones/prosterioids in it? I've been seeing some posts that PPlex is better than dbol. Would just love to see how they compare with old stand bys.


define better? ^

Whats on the charts doesnt always equate to real world results. both are good actually and very similar but pplex giving slightly less of a bloated look


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## Justinbro (May 28, 2011)

SFW said:


> define better? ^
> 
> Whats on the charts doesnt always equate to real world results. both are good actually and very similar but pplex giving slightly less of a bloated look


Not the ratio chart, the real world effectiveness chart that gives Adrol and Suspension a 10 for strength. Good to hear on the PPlex. I noticed it doesnt aromatize and have seen it on ebay so its been on my mind. I know the crazy anabolic ratio doesnt mean much like with cheque drops and halotestin so yeah real world reviews is what I'm after.


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## SFW (May 28, 2011)

well, since they stopped making madol otc, you being able to find a fresh batch is unlikely. Most of that stuff is circa 2008 and probably stored improperly. Better off with some ugl dbol for a kickstart.


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## xaxis1969 (Jun 13, 2011)

Great information!


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## Justinbro (Jun 14, 2011)

SFW said:


> well, since they stopped making madol otc, you being able to find a fresh batch is unlikely. Most of that stuff is circa 2008 and probably stored improperly. Better off with some ugl dbol for a kickstart.


 

Madol isnt a prohormone, it's desoxymethyltestosterone, a nonaromatizing test thats 12 times more anabolic than oil test and my PPlex right now isnt expired. Pumps and euphoria like dbol and agression and strength like halo, love it.


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## Saney (Jun 14, 2011)

Justinbro said:


> Madol isnt a prohormone, it's desoxymethyltestosterone, a nonaromatizing test thats 12 times more anabolic than oil test and my PPlex right now isnt expired. Pumps and euphoria like dbol and agression and strength like halo, love it.



Dayum!!!

Looks like he told you SFW.... What you gonna do about that?


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## TriumphTt600 (Jun 24, 2011)

Good chart. Thanks


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## oufinny (Jun 29, 2011)

I read this and there are so many on there I want to take and they are all gone... arghh!!!!!!  Fucking govt always has to mess with the fun.


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## Justinbro (Jun 30, 2011)

oufinny said:


> I read this and there are so many on there I want to take and they are all gone... arghh!!!!!! Fucking govt always has to mess with the fun.


 PPlex is always on ebay or the buy sell trade threads


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## r0ck0 (Nov 2, 2011)

Great thread. Have some studying to do now. Thanks for the post.


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## eskimoexpress (Nov 19, 2011)

too bad most of those products are "discontinued" now...


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## boyd.357 (Jan 23, 2012)

^Yea and superdrol is the next one to be banned. THAT SUCKS!!!


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## PappyMason (Jan 23, 2012)

Silver_Back said:


> for 115$ I could get about 70mls of Test Prop 100 delivered to me in less than a week..
> 
> Knowing that, who the fuck would buy Placebos?



wow thats pretty cheap. i have yet to see any sponsor with that kind of price tho


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## bigiron (Aug 3, 2012)

In terms of OTC ProHormones/Steroids, I've always read that the best products for cutting are epistane/havoc (methyl anabolics), versions of formestane (anti-aromatase / slight anabolic?), and the newest version of 1-test (I believe it is a three step conversion to receive benefit).  If these three are the best, let me know if I have them in the correct order and if you agree... If I'm missing something, let me know that as well!


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## evolutionpep (Aug 4, 2013)

great thread guys


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## sewardfitness (Mar 15, 2014)

nice charts


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## yaras19 (Aug 19, 2015)

Awesome info, thanks bro


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## JR. (Oct 9, 2016)

Nice Thank-you!


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