# BGB - Intensity for Squats, Deadlifts, Bench Press?



## sakbar (Apr 23, 2009)

I read somewhere that heaviest poundage is to be for deadlift, then the squat and finally the bench press. In any case, this was the order when I commenced lifting. 

I am about four months into Baby Got Back routine, and with consistency have come to a point where my squats outweigh the deadlifts. Bench press is still way lower. 

Am I missing out on something or is this normal progression?  (I do not wear any knee wraps or straps)

My weekly routine is published below:


*DAY 1 - HORIZONTAL PUSH PULL
-----------------------------------*

Deadlifts: 5 X 5
Bent barbell rows: 3 X 8 
Flat Bench Press: 5 X 5
Incline Dumbbell Press: 3 X 8 
Standing Calf Raises: 4 X 15


*DAY 2 - QUAD DOMINANT LEGS
----------------------------------*

Squats: 5 X 5
Leg Press: 3 X 8 
Leg Extensions: 3 X 8 
Leg Curls: 3 X 15
Barbell Curls: 5 X 5
Alternate Hammer Curls: 3 X 8

*DAY 3 - VERTICAL PUSH/PULL
---------------------------------*

Weighted Chin Ups: 5 X 4
Narrow Grip Chins: 3 X 8 
Bent Over Lateral Raises: 3 X 10
Hang Clean and Press: 5 X 5 
Arnold Press: 3 X 8 
Seated Calf Raises: 3 X 15

*DAY 4 â€“ HIP/HAMSTRING DOMINANT LEGS
-------------------------------------------*

Straight Leg Deadlift: 5 X 5 
Good Mornings: 3 X 8 
Seated Leg Extensions: 3 X 15 
Weighted Dips: 5 X 5 
Weighted Dips Behind the Back: 3 X 10


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## C6zo6 (Apr 23, 2009)

sakbar said:


> I read somewhere that heaviest poundage is to be for deadlift, then the squat and finally the bench press. In any case, this was the order when I commenced lifting.
> 
> I am about four months into Baby Got Back routine, and with consistency have come to a point where my squats outweigh the deadlifts. Bench press is still way lower.
> 
> ...



I can squat way more than i can deadlift. But, I'm really paranoid about form on deadlifts and don't want to get injured. My squat is 245 and my deadlift is only 155. Sure, i could deadlift more, but i don't like the way it feels. I feel like my form alters and i tend to start leaning forward to much. So, i just use a weight that doesn't sacrifice technique.

By the way, i like this routine, but why don't you maybe add triceps on day 1? I don't really see much tricep work and calf raises 2x a week doesn't seem necessary.


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## sakbar (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks for the response, C6zo6. I have actually seen good progress with this routine (coupled with a healthy diet). Progress is measured in terms of poundages lifted, weight measurements and of course, the positive comments received in the gym! 



C6zo6 said:


> By the way, i like this routine, but why don't you maybe add triceps on day 1


No, no! Day 1 is the most taxing of all. All are power moves which utterly exhaust me. By the time I am doing calf raises, I cannot wait for the 1-hour session to end. 



C6zo6 said:


> I don't really see much tricep work and calf raises 2x a week doesn't seem necessary


This query goes directly to our Diva!! 



C6zo6 said:


> I can squat way more than i can deadlift. But, I'm really paranoid about form on deadlifts and don't want to get injured. My squat is 245 and my deadlift is only 155. Sure, i could deadlift more, but i don't like the way it feels. I feel like my form alters and i tend to start leaning forward to much. So, i just use a weight that doesn't sacrifice technique.


That's good to hear. It tells me that I am not entirely off all that I am doing!


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## C6zo6 (Apr 23, 2009)

sakbar said:


> Thanks for the response, C6zo6. I have actually seen good progress with this routine (coupled with a healthy diet). Progress is measured in terms of poundages lifted, weight measurements and of course, the positive comments received in the gym!
> 
> 
> No, no! Day 1 is the most taxing of all. All are power moves which utterly exhaust me. By the time I am doing calf raises, I cannot wait for the 1-hour session to end.
> ...



Well, why not on Day 3 then? That day can't be very difficult...I mean, you isolate biceps with two different exercises and do alternating chins. This is a lot of biceps... If anything, it would make more sense to not isolate the biceps and do the triceps instead. You isolate them 0 times in your week. Why do calves need to be done twice? Plus, triceps are fun to do and make up the most of your arm size. I understand your incline bench and other pushing movements *include* triceps, but throwing in one or two isolation tricep exercises seems logical and fun.


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## sakbar (Apr 23, 2009)

*Tricep Isolation in BGB*

Well, there isn't  the Dip Behind the Back tricep exclusive?

I can replace the Standing Dips with, say Lying Tricep Extension, or  maybe cable pressdown then? 3 of 10 each.


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## T_man (Apr 23, 2009)

sakbar said:


> Well, there isn't  the Dip Behind the Back tricep exclusive?
> 
> I can replace the Standing Dips with, say Lying Tricep Extension, or  maybe cable pressdown then? 3 of 10 each.



Normal Dips > all other tricep exercises bar skullcrushers & CG bench press imo


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## sakbar (Apr 23, 2009)

*Tricep*



T_man said:


> Normal Dips > all other tricep exercises bar skullcrushers & CG bench press imo



Which is why it was set up as such to begin with! 

The discussion of the routine - and which exercises to select - is  right here


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## CowPimp (Apr 23, 2009)

Most people deadlift more than they squat, but not everyone.  However, in my experience, the vast majority of people who claim to squat more than they deadlift don't hit proper depth, and things would most definitely change if they were.  

I would see if you can get a 3rd party assessment of the depth of your squat.  You could do this by asking a friend how actually knows how to define a parallel squat, or you could post a video on here taken from a profile view and we can let you know the deal.


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## sakbar (Apr 23, 2009)

*Squats*

Cowpimp, I did see your video on you tube here. Admittedly, I do not go _this low_ but yes, mines do undoubtedly make it to below parallel.


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## C6zo6 (Apr 23, 2009)

CowPimp said:


> Most people deadlift more than they squat, but not everyone.  However, in my experience, the vast majority of people who claim to squat more than they deadlift don't hit proper depth, and things would most definitely change if they were.
> 
> I would see if you can get a 3rd party assessment of the depth of your squat.  You could do this by asking a friend how actually knows how to define a parallel squat, or you could post a video on here taken from a profile view and we can let you know the deal.



I *can* deadlift as low as you did on your video, but don't. When i do, i tend to use my back to bring the weight up. I go _slightly_ higher and keep my head looking straight up at the ceiling. Honestly, my back is straighter than yours. It looks like you use your back a bit. I know i'll get bashed for saying that, but whatever...I'm not in this to go as low as i can. 

I simply just have strong legs. I run a lot and played a lot of football in high school/college. Sure, that has nothing to do with squats, but i also did those...Deadlifts are something new i started about 5 months ago, so my technique is not as good. It's a powerful, strenuous movement and can cause problems down the road if not done properly. 

If form alters after 3 reps, i simply take some weight off. In my opinion, their is no reason doing an exercise half a$$, just to prove you can do the weight...Being smart and doing what your body can handle is the way to go. It's exercise for my health and critiquing little things like this is not necessary. The point is, we all are lifting weights, being active for our health and ideally doing it in a safe manner. Next step would be taking it to the next level. (Body building, body composition, etc)


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## C6zo6 (Apr 23, 2009)

sakbar said:


> Well, there isn't  the Dip Behind the Back tricep exclusive?
> 
> I can replace the Standing Dips with, say Lying Tricep Extension, or  maybe cable pressdown then? 3 of 10 each.



Dips are better than tricep extensions, but i don't use dips for triceps. Yes, i know it hits them, but when i perform dips, i do them for my chest. So, i really lean forward. I NEVER feel like my triceps are hit very hard...

If it was me, i would include CG bench press in your routine somewhere. I always feel those in my triceps, along with push downs. Just do *something* isolation. Dips don't isolate your triceps either, but nevertheless are an excellent exercise to do!!


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## sakbar (Apr 23, 2009)

CG Bench Press give me a tremendous pump in the chest and some in delts but very little in tri's.
If at all I have to add one isolation - and CG is not one  - I'd go with high-rep pressdowns. Or maybe Built's favorite - the kickbacks


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## someguy1984 (Apr 23, 2009)

sakbar said:


> CG Bench Press give me a tremendous pump in the chest and some in delts but very little in tri's.
> If at all I have to add one isolation - and CG is not one  - I'd go with high-rep pressdowns. Or maybe Built's favorite - the kickbacks



Not sure how you don't feel CG bench press in your triceps...That's pretty much all it is...

Pressdowns are great though and i really feel those as well. Or, *overhead tricep extensions. If you don't feel those in your triceps, then you just don't do things right...lol*


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## Built (Apr 24, 2009)

Sakbar, did you get your question sufficiently addressed?


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## T_man (Apr 24, 2009)

maybe you're not putting your hands close enough in the close grip bench. They need to be close, like 1 inch apart. They're great for building size, but if the extensions work for you, by all means do them!


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## Built (Apr 24, 2009)

Good point, T_man.


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## sakbar (Apr 24, 2009)

*Customizations et al*



Built said:


> Sakbar, did you get your question sufficiently addressed?



Hi Built, 

Thanks!

From the esteemed feedback received from all so far, the take home message would be: 

Deadlifts ought to be more than squats for a normal lifter. I need to focus on bringing my poundage up for the deads
A tricep isolation exercise squeezed into the routine somewhere may well add value.  

Since the program is designed to - and indeed does - hit all planes with the right amounts of break/recuperation, I am not sure if one can just customize it by "adding" new exercise. 

Regards,
Sak


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## largepkg (Apr 24, 2009)

T_man said:


> maybe you're not putting your hands close enough in the close grip bench. They need to be close, like 1 inch apart. They're great for building size, but if the extensions work for you, by all means do them!



1'' apart???

That's a big negative as far as I'm concerned. I keep my hands just inside my shoulders. You really need to concentrate on hitting the tri's. Keep your elbows as close to your body as possible and focus on using your triceps.

My wrists would break at 1'' apart...


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## Built (Apr 24, 2009)

Okay, cool. 
1. Usually this is the case, but not always. You might need to examine your squat depth before you do anything more to your dead (as someone offered already). 
2. I do tris on ham-dominant day. 

Good luck.


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## largepkg (Apr 24, 2009)

sakbar said:


> Hi Built,
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> ...



When I was training hard and heavy my DL's were significantly more than my squats. I would DL 495 x 3-4 and never went above 405 x 2-3 on squats. usually was around 365 x 4-5.

After two knee injuries, squats are a distant memory as I can barely get to 90 degrees.


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## Built (Apr 24, 2009)

Injuries SUCK.


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## sakbar (Apr 24, 2009)

Okay, will focus on squat depth and get feedback before doing anything else.  



Built said:


> 2. I do tris on ham-dominant day.
> Good luck.



Yes, that is the way I do it too. But the consensus seemed to be that the selection of exercises for triceps is not appropriate to isolate the triceps: 

Weighted Dips: 5 X 5
Weighted Dips Behind the Back: 3 X 10

Apparently, folks would rather have me do CG-Bench, or Extensions.


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## Built (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm a very big fan of CG bench. Do whatever YOU feel in your tris. 

Just leave off the kickbacks, k? LMAO!


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## largepkg (Apr 24, 2009)

Built said:


> I'm a very big fan of CG bench. Do whatever YOU feel in your tris.
> 
> Just leave off the kickbacks, k? LMAO!



Don't knock me for using the pink Db's for kickbacks! I think I they look pretty.


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## C6zo6 (Apr 24, 2009)

I think you need to get used to CG bench press and add those every now and then. Plus, you should be changing exercises periodically anyway, so your not doing the same thing...


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## CowPimp (Apr 24, 2009)

C6zo6 said:


> I *can* deadlift as low as you did on your video, but don't. When i do, i tend to use my back to bring the weight up. I go _slightly_ higher and keep my head looking straight up at the ceiling. Honestly, my back is straighter than yours. It looks like you use your back a bit. I know i'll get bashed for saying that, but whatever...I'm not in this to go as low as i can.
> 
> I simply just have strong legs. I run a lot and played a lot of football in high school/college. Sure, that has nothing to do with squats, but i also did those...Deadlifts are something new i started about 5 months ago, so my technique is not as good. It's a powerful, strenuous movement and can cause problems down the road if not done properly.
> 
> If form alters after 3 reps, i simply take some weight off. In my opinion, their is no reason doing an exercise half a$$, just to prove you can do the weight...Being smart and doing what your body can handle is the way to go. It's exercise for my health and critiquing little things like this is not necessary. The point is, we all are lifting weights, being active for our health and ideally doing it in a safe manner. Next step would be taking it to the next level. (Body building, body composition, etc)



What do you mean you can deadlift as low as me?  A deadlift with 45s on each side is always from the same height, unless you are talking about rack pulls.  Perhaps you were referring to squatting?


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## CowPimp (Apr 24, 2009)

largepkg said:


> 1'' apart???
> 
> That's a big negative as far as I'm concerned. I keep my hands just inside my shoulders. You really need to concentrate on hitting the tri's. Keep your elbows as close to your body as possible and focus on using your triceps.
> 
> My wrists would break at 1'' apart...



I'm with you there.  That seems like a lot of unnecessary strain on the wrists having your grip that close.  I would never do close grip bench like that, and would never have any of my clients do it that way either.


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## C6zo6 (Apr 24, 2009)

CowPimp said:


> What do you mean you can deadlift as low as me?  A deadlift with 45s on each side is always from the same height, unless you are talking about rack pulls.  Perhaps you were referring to squatting?



*Squat, my fault. *

Also, i resent my statement about being able to squat more than i deadlift. Today was actually my squat/deadlift day and this thread got me thinking. I deadlifted 245 and squatted 225 same reps. 

Essentially, i can deadlift more than i can squat.


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## T_man (Apr 24, 2009)

largepkg said:


> 1'' apart???
> 
> That's a big negative as far as I'm concerned. I keep my hands just inside my shoulders. You really need to concentrate on hitting the tri's. Keep your elbows as close to your body as possible and focus on using your triceps.
> 
> My wrists would break at 1'' apart...



No, then you're putting too much weight on it.

If you put your hands further you're utilising your chest rather than your triceps.
This is for TRICEPS only, so putting it that close rules out all the other muscles. You shouldnt be able to CGBP anywhere near your bench.
It works the forearms as well, but should not STRAIN it. If it is you're probably using too much weight and trying to utilise your chest in the movement, therefore forcing your forearms into an awkward position.
It's just like a diamond push-up. Hits the triceps THE MOST, yet you can do the least reps on them(use least weight).


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## CowPimp (Apr 24, 2009)

C6zo6 said:


> *Squat, my fault. *
> 
> Also, i resent my statement about being able to squat more than i deadlift. Today was actually my squat/deadlift day and this thread got me thinking. I deadlifted 245 and squatted 225 same reps.
> 
> Essentially, i can deadlift more than i can squat.



Gotcha.  Well I don't see how I'm using my back to squat.  My trunk angle is about the same as my shank, which is pretty good for someone of my height.  What criteria are you basing this on?  I'd love to hear, as the squat is a great evaluation tool on a lot of levels, including mobility in a multitude of joints.

Furthermore, looking up means nothing as far as the positioning of your thoracic and lumbar spine.  In fact, you don't want to be looking up.  Hyperextension of the cervical spine is not appropriate lifting posture; a neutral cervical spine is.


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## T_man (Apr 25, 2009)

CowPimp said:


> Gotcha.  Well I don't see how I'm using my back to squat.  My trunk angle is about the same as my shank, which is pretty good for someone of my height.  What criteria are you basing this on?  I'd love to hear, as the squat is a great evaluation tool on a lot of levels, including mobility in a multitude of joints.
> 
> Furthermore, looking up means nothing as far as the positioning of your thoracic and lumbar spine.  In fact, you don't want to be looking up.  Hyperextension of the cervical spine is not appropriate lifting posture; a neutral cervical spine is.



i think he's like me; I have a short upper body compared to my lower body. When I go to the depths you do, it forces me to push my torso forward to balance it out so I don't fall backwards. This means that I have to use my back when coming up to straighten my torso which is not ideal squat form


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## vader (Apr 25, 2009)

T_man said:


> No, then you're putting too much weight on it.
> 
> If you put your hands further you're utilising your chest rather than your triceps.
> This is for TRICEPS only, so putting it that close rules out all the other muscles. You shouldnt be able to CGBP anywhere near your bench.
> ...



Tman, take a look at Largepkg's pictures and then tell me you know more than him.

Large ,I am with you man. When doing close grips I make sure that my hands are only shoulder with part and that my elbows touch my sides on the down stroke.


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## largepkg (Apr 25, 2009)

vader said:


> Tman, take a look at Largepkg's pictures and then tell me you know more than him.
> 
> Large ,I am with you man. When doing close grips I make sure that my hands are only shoulder with part and that my elbows touch my sides on the down stroke.





He means well. Unfortunately he's wrong. Isolating the triceps has nothing to do with placing your hands 1'' apart. Form during the lift is the most important.

Also, at 1'' apart they should be prepared for possible injury. Some will learn the hard way.


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## CowPimp (Apr 25, 2009)

T_man said:


> i think he's like me; I have a short upper body compared to my lower body. When I go to the depths you do, it forces me to push my torso forward to balance it out so I don't fall backwards. This means that I have to use my back when coming up to straighten my torso which is not ideal squat form



You HAVE to lean forward during a back squat, period.  I don't care how tall you are.


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## Built (Apr 25, 2009)

largepkg, that's how I do them too. Honestly, I just go by feel on those. If it feels like my tris are getting a hit, my hands are in the right spots. I think the grip ends up being just where the outside of my fist is in line with my delt.


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## C6zo6 (Apr 25, 2009)

T_man said:


> i think he's like me; I have a short upper body compared to my lower body. When I go to the depths you do, it forces me to push my torso forward to balance it out so I don't fall backwards. This means that I have to use my back when coming up to straighten my torso which is not ideal squat form



Exactly, he doesn't get it. If he had the same frame, he would know how it feels. *I could care a less about all these technicalities*, but this is how i _feel_ when performing the squat, period. _Everyone_ is different. 

Cowpimp, if you feel you don't use your lower back, fine. *I don't care*, it just reminded me of how i look when i start to use my back. (which isn't comfortable)


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## Built (Apr 25, 2009)

Your lower back is indeed involved in the squat, as are abs and the whole area generally spoken of in conjunction with the importance of the bosu ball as the "core". 

But if you're good-morning it up you might find you do better with a) front squats or b) a lower positioning of the barbell on your back squat. 

You can try holding the barbell lower down and kinda flaring your elbows out to form a ledge for the barbell that's lower down. I've recently incorporated this technique (former "good morning" squatter here) and I'm delighted to say they're finally FEELING like squats. 

Anybody want to come in and do a better job explaining what I would have preferred to demonstrate, please be my guest.


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## C6zo6 (Apr 26, 2009)

I meant to write deadlift in my post. 

I know your lower back is involved in the squat, but not much. I was referring to deadlifting and using my lower back. I know it's involved, but i tend to do a good morning technique when i try to use too much weight and alter form to the point where it's not a good idea...Although, i can lift the weight 8-10 times.


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## T_man (Apr 26, 2009)

CowPimp said:


> You HAVE to lean forward during a back squat, period.  I don't care how tall you are.



Cowpimp. I've seen your videos of squatting. It's good form. BUT you are blessed with an even torso: legs ratio.
When I do squats and go that low (I usually go below parallel but not too much) My torso is more than 45 degrees bent over. Nearly parallel to the floor to balance out the weight. Further more I don't have a squat rack at my gym so I have to do it to ensure I don't fall over and hurt someone with the barbell. I then end up doing a good morning up like  Built mentioned, and that is not good squatting form. Therefore we cannot go as low. The only times I've felt squats effective on my quads and going that low is when I used to do them on a slanted smith machine that had the perfect line if I had my legs out forward.

And my bad about the cgbp i didn't know it could injure you. I dont feel like it would but i'll take you guys words for it. Hold the bar almost like a skullcrusher except you're pressing rather than extending right?


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## largepkg (Apr 26, 2009)

T_man said:


> Cowpimp. I've seen your videos of squatting. It's good form. BUT you are blessed with an even torso: legs ratio.
> When I do squats and go that low (I usually go below parallel but not too much) My torso is more than 45 degrees bent over. Nearly parallel to the floor to balance out the weight. Further more I don't have a squat rack at my gym so I have to do it to ensure I don't fall over and hurt someone with the barbell. I then end up doing a good morning up like  Built mentioned, and that is not good squatting form. Therefore we cannot go as low. The only times I've felt squats effective on my quads and going that low is when I used to do them on a slanted smith machine that had the perfect line if I had my legs out forward.
> 
> *And my bad about the cgbp i didn't know it could injure you. I dont feel like it would but i'll take you guys words for it. Hold the bar almost like a skullcrusher except you're pressing rather than extending right*?



The main difference is most use a bent bar to do skulls. This positions your wrists in a more favorable position. Also, the skull is a true ISO movement for the tri's. Whereas the CG is still a compound movement that isolates the tri's more than a standard bench. Similar to dips.


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## T_man (Apr 26, 2009)

how about using an EZ bar for cgbp? 

I saw someone do deadlifts with it.. I wonder if he tried squats


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## C6zo6 (Apr 26, 2009)

T_man said:


> Cowpimp. I've seen your videos of squatting. It's good form. BUT you are blessed with an even torso: legs ratio.
> When I do squats and go that low (I usually go below parallel but not too much) My torso is more than 45 degrees bent over. Nearly parallel to the floor to balance out the weight. Further more I don't have a squat rack at my gym so I have to do it to ensure I don't fall over and hurt someone with the barbell. I then end up doing a good morning up like  Built mentioned, and that is not good squatting form. Therefore we cannot go as low. The only times I've felt squats effective on my quads and going that low is when I used to do them on a slanted smith machine that had the perfect line if I had my legs out forward.
> 
> And my bad about the cgbp i didn't know it could injure you. I dont feel like it would but i'll take you guys words for it. Hold the bar almost like a skullcrusher except you're pressing rather than extending right?



Yeah, same problem. 

This is why i look up when i squat. My friend taped me on his phone and whenever i was looking up, my back was straight and form looked much better for some reason. Also, i felt it a lot more in my quads and the next day i was sore. I had not been getting sore for a while, but ever since i started using that technique I've been feeling it a bit more. It's been a nice change.


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## sakbar (Apr 26, 2009)

largepkg said:


> ......
> Whereas the CG is still a compound movement that isolates the tri's more than a standard bench. Similar to dips.



Well largepkg, I have travelled the full circle now. 

In that case why is CG-Bench any better than Weighted Dips or Dips Behind the Back both of which are incorporated in my program? (And which seem to be working too!)


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## someguy1984 (Apr 26, 2009)

sakbar said:


> Well largepkg, I have travelled the full circle now.
> 
> In that case why is CG-Bench any better than Weighted Dips or Dips Behind the Back both of which are incorporated in my program? (And which seem to be working too!)



If your going to keep arguing with everybody and keep saying your routine is working and you don't need to do more triceps, etc...Then why make the thread?

Your not taking advice, so what's the point of people giving their input? 

*If your routine is working, then keep doing it. Your not listening to anyone anyways. *


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## largepkg (Apr 26, 2009)

Not sure he was arguing so I'll answer the question.

Variation! 

Personally, I love dips but you have to change your routine to see maximum results.


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## Built (Apr 26, 2009)

It also varies your potential for overuse injury - I'm probably not saying that properly. I'm meaning to say it spreads the risk around, so it minimizes the likelihood of it happening. I'm a firm believer in minimizing the risk through minor variations. Works for diet, works for training. Complexity theory in action.


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## Perdido (Apr 26, 2009)

I'm not sure if this is off topic or not but instead of doing CGBP with a barbell, a friend has shown me a version of it using dumbells. The dumbells touch the full range of motion top to bottom.
Also not sure what target muscles this would hit specifically and I only do them on rare occasion for variation on a routine but thought I'd throw it out there for opinions.


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## Built (Apr 26, 2009)

Interesting! I'ma try that - thanks!


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## vader (Apr 26, 2009)

rahaas said:


> I'm not sure if this is off topic or not but instead of doing CGBP with a barbell, a friend has shown me a version of it using dumbells. The dumbells touch the full range of motion top to bottom.
> Also not sure what target muscles this would hit specifically and I only do them on rare occasion for variation on a routine but thought I'd throw it out there for opinions.



I do that only it starts as a flye, at the top come down and so the CGB move then back up and flye again. Does that make sense? We call them chest busters but they blast my triceps pretty good too.


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## largepkg (Apr 26, 2009)

rahaas said:


> I'm not sure if this is off topic or not but instead of doing CGBP with a barbell, a friend has shown me a version of it using dumbells. The dumbells touch the full range of motion top to bottom.
> Also not sure what target muscles this would hit specifically and I only do them on rare occasion for variation on a routine but thought I'd throw it out there for opinions.



How are you articulating the wrists? Is the motion the same as a standard CG? ex. elbows tightly in?

I never thought about this. Thanks for the idea. I suppose you could do them as single arms as well. Cool idea.


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## Perdido (Apr 26, 2009)

largepkg said:


> How are you articulating the wrists? Is the motion the same as a standard CG? ex. elbows tightly in?
> 
> I never thought about this. Thanks for the idea. I suppose you could do them as single arms as well. Cool idea.



Wrist would be facing each other (both dumbell plates touching each other - not end to end) and elbows in same position as DB BP.
I would think it would be tough to do them single arm unless the weight was kept down or you are an animal (I'm gonna try it this week just for shits n giggles).


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## DIVINITUS (Apr 26, 2009)

If it helps the OP, I squat about the same as I deadlift although never push for a 1 rep max with those two.  My bench is about 275 1rep max and my highest squat and deads for reps are 285 and 295 respectively.  i also try to keep good solid form and don't push myself too hard for fear of getting hurt, I mean I work it, but don't push like I do on some other excersizes.


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## Built (Apr 26, 2009)

Heavy without injuries = good.


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## sakbar (Apr 26, 2009)

Thank you, largepkg and Built! 



someguy1984 said:


> If your going to keep arguing with everybody and keep saying your routine is working and you don't need to do more triceps, etc...Then why make the thread?




someguy, the thread was started for a specific purpose which got answered in the first few interactions. Please re-read the thread heading, and then the initial discussions on the first page of this thread.

Tricep isolation and squat postures were offshoots, but thought-provoking interactions not too far from where I stand. 





someguy1984 said:


> *
> Your not taking advice, so what's the point of people giving their input?
> ......
> Your not listening to anyone anyways.
> *


Thanks, Mr. Judge, Jury and Verdict. 

someguy, I must say your inputs have been not only the most relevant but also amazingly profound.


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## CowPimp (Apr 26, 2009)

Built said:


> Your lower back is indeed involved in the squat, as are abs and the whole area generally spoken of in conjunction with the importance of the bosu ball as the "core".
> 
> But if you're good-morning it up you might find you do better with a) front squats or b) a lower positioning of the barbell on your back squat.



That's not entirely true.  If you put the bar lower on your back, your have to lean forward more in order to keep your center of mass within your base of support.  It causes you to use the posterior chain more, hence why powerlifters squat "low bar."  It is true, however, that front squats allow for a more upright posture; the Zercher squat should be the same deal as well.


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## someguy1984 (Apr 27, 2009)

sakbar said:


> Thank you, largepkg and Built!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Look at what you have replied with when people tried to offer advice...You kept giving reasons why it wouldn't be necessary, etc...

That's all I'm saying. 

I work with people who do that all the time and I hate it. Let me give you an example.

*John:* "Mike, I'm going to get a Skyline GTR over a new BMW M3. Is this a good purchase, or should i maybe go with the M3? I want the best overall economical vehicle." 
*
Mike:* "Well, the GTR is a better car, but the M3 is more of an everyday driver. The GTR is an amazing platform with plenty to offer, but is more of a weekend car and _eats gas_. The M3 however, has some very nice features for everyday use and plenty of pep to get you around. Both cars will turn heads, but for the money and economy use, the M3 is the better option."

"Thanks mike, I'm still going with the Skyline GTR. It's just nicer and i don't care about the gas mileage." 

WTF??? Why even ask me if you've already made up your mind?

This is how I've taken your replies to people...I don't understand why people ask questions and have already made up their mind. It's like they want reassurance for a decision they have already made...

Sorry for being an a$$, but being a regional manager at Bert's Smith will drive you nuts sometimes.


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## sakbar (Apr 27, 2009)

someguy1984 said:


> Look at what you have replied with when people tried to offer advice...You kept giving reasons why it wouldn't be necessary, etc...
> 
> WTF??? Why even ask me if you've already made up your mind?



You are way out of line. I have no desire to waste any bandwidth in responding to your allegations. To have progressed (with the useful advice obtained here) is proof enough.



someguy1984 said:


> Sorry for being an a$$, but being a regional manager at Bert's Smith will drive you nuts sometimes.



Wow! Some managerial skills you have: barging head-on at people pointing out their (seemingly apparent) flaws.

Peace Be,
Sak


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## someguy1984 (Apr 27, 2009)

sakbar said:


> You are way out of line. I have no desire to waste any bandwidth in responding to your allegations. To have progressed (with the useful advice obtained here) is proof enough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My last response was not confrontational and i clearly apologized for being hard on you...Now your the one out of line...

This forum and my job have *nothing* to do with one another. I don't get payed here. This is a forum and people are open to say what they want. Sure, i tend to *vent* a little when i have a rough day...But, i will admit that and *apologize* when i do so. 

You shouldn't let this kind of thing get to you...Honestly, you sound like a bellyacher...Sorry, but it's evident...


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## sakbar (Apr 27, 2009)

I will gladly take "venting" from anyone who go out of their way to give helpful advice and direct others' efforts. (Whether the learned ones ever throw their frustrations on the very people they are trying to selflessly help warrants hard thinking)

For someone to barge into an ongoing discussion with no relevant, positive or meaningful inputs, and then to claim their useless intrusion as a "venting" is utterly outrageous. There is no reason for anyone to take crap just because you dish it out and then let it be when you choose to sugar-coat it with an apology.  

Bellyacher? Sure - one has to digest crap occasionally.


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## someguy1984 (Apr 27, 2009)

sakbar said:


> I will gladly take "venting" from anyone who go out of their way to give helpful advice and direct others' efforts. (Whether the learned ones ever throw their frustrations on the very people they are trying to selflessly help warrants hard thinking)
> 
> For someone to barge into an ongoing discussion with no relevant, positive or meaningful inputs, and then to claim their useless intrusion as a "venting" is utterly outrageous. There is no reason for anyone to take crap just because you dish it out and then let it be when you choose to sugar-coat it with an apology.
> 
> Bellyacher? Sure - one has to digest crap occasionally.



I didn't just barge in. I replied on the first page and it was in a joking manner. I only said *one* thing to you that could have been rude and immediately *apologized* for it...Your just simply taking it to the heart like a little girl... Now, I'm going to laugh at you...You did this to yourself. If you would have ended it with my apology, everything would have been fine. But no, you have to be a smart a$$ and keep going with it. Have it your way. 

Also, *bellyacher* is another way of saying your a whiner, or cry baby. Which you obviously are, because your pouting about me implying you don't take opinions well. 

Wow...Let it ruin your day why don't you...Good lord...


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## C6zo6 (Apr 27, 2009)

*Sakbar*, you should have ended things when he apologized. He really didn't say anything mean to you...You went on with it and brought up his work ethic. Very rude and uncalled for. For the record, i would really be p*ssed about this. That was uncalled for.

*Someguy1984*, I understand he should have taken your apology, but their is no need to keep going with it. Your both making each other look stupid arguing over the internet. 

Just end this, because it's not relevant and is going no where. 
*
Both of you are at fault now, so drop it. *


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## Built (Apr 27, 2009)

CowPimp said:


> That's not entirely true.  If you put the bar lower on your back, your have to lean forward more in order to keep your center of mass within your base of support.  It causes you to use the posterior chain more, hence why powerlifters squat "low bar."  It is true, however, that front squats allow for a more upright posture; the Zercher squat should be the same deal as well.


That's weird.

I'm able to stay more upright when I keep the bar a little lower. And I've really struggled with this. Now that I'm doing it, I can rep out 8-rep sets of below parallel squats with 165 and feel it in my QUADS for once. 

Am I an alien?


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## vader (Apr 28, 2009)

no Built ,you ar not alien. I am the same way, the lower the bar is on my traps the more upright I can stay, especially below parallel.


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## sakbar (Apr 28, 2009)

C6zo6 said:


> *Sakbar*, you should have ended things when he apologized. He really didn't say anything mean to you...You went on with it and brought up his work ethic. Very rude and uncalled for. For the record, i would really be p*ssed about this. That was uncalled for.
> 
> Just end this, because it's not relevant and is going no where.



Thanks, C6zo6. Point taken.

Regards,
Sak


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## T_man (Apr 28, 2009)

Built said:


> That's weird.
> 
> I'm able to stay more upright when I keep the bar a little lower. And I've really struggled with this. Now that I'm doing it, I can rep out 8-rep sets of below parallel squats with 165 and feel it in my QUADS for once.
> 
> Am I an alien?



I think CowPimp's theory might be slightly flawed. Even though when you bend over having the bar higher up might have a benefit to keeping the weight in a central position due to it being more forward when you bend over, having the bar lower has it closer to the centre of the movement and so doesn't have as much effect on pulling the weight either way because of it's more central position. This is just a thought.

I have read what I've said and it's one of those statements that makes sense to me but I'm sceptical about whether anyone else will understand it


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## C6zo6 (Apr 28, 2009)

sakbar said:


> Thanks, C6zo6. Point taken.
> 
> Regards,
> Sak



No problem. 

Good to see your dropping it and being the better guy.


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## CowPimp (Apr 28, 2009)

T_man said:


> I think CowPimp's theory might be slightly flawed. Even though when you bend over having the bar higher up might have a benefit to keeping the weight in a central position due to it being more forward when you bend over, having the bar lower has it closer to the centre of the movement and so doesn't have as much effect on pulling the weight either way because of it's more central position. This is just a thought.
> 
> I have read what I've said and it's one of those statements that makes sense to me but I'm sceptical about whether anyone else will understand it



This is not a theory, it is biomechanics.  The position of the bar is only one important factor.  However, THE important factor is the overall center of mass of the system in question.  So, body positioning, and mass of everything above the knee for that matter, are both very important in this equation.

Plain and simple, what defines an Olympic style squat, also known as squatting "high bar," is a more upright stance and more narrow foot position.  What defines a powerlifting style squat, also known as squatting "low bar," is more forward lean and a wider foot position.  If you are "feeling" otherwise, I urge you to video tape yourself doing both and making sure this is the case.

Think about it like this, the variation that will allow THE must upright stance is for you to hold a weight out in front of you while you squat.  This is because the center of mass is shifted anteriorly, so you have to position your torso more upright to bring the COM back in the posterior direction and, once again, within your base of support.  The next step would be the front squat.  Again, because the weight is in front of you, you have to shift your trunk into a more upright position the bring your center of mass within your base of support.  The next step is a high bar back squat, and the next step after that is the low bar back squat.  Notice how with each progression further back, you have to lean forward more.

When squatting low bar, unless you are putting the bar UNDER your shoulder blades, and you have a really fucked up spine shape and zero erector spinae, I don't see how you can get the bar further forward than in a high bar squat.


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## T_man (Apr 28, 2009)

CowPimp said:


> This is not a theory, it is biomechanics.  The position of the bar is only one important factor.  However, THE important factor is the overall center of mass of the system in question.  So, body positioning, and mass of everything above the knee for that matter, are both very important in this equation.
> 
> Plain and simple, what defines an Olympic style squat, also known as squatting "high bar," is a more upright stance and more narrow foot position.  What defines a powerlifting style squat, also known as squatting "low bar," is more forward lean and a wider foot position.  If you are "feeling" otherwise, I urge you to video tape yourself doing both and making sure this is the case.
> 
> ...



This would be correct if you were using a smith machine where the bar didn't move. However, because this is a free weight, physics comes into play. If you have a skyscraper, it is more likely to topple over when you have a weight right at the top as compared to a more central position. If you get me.
This not an argument cowpimp just have it in ur mind tht this is jus a discussion and i'm just putting across ideas because i'm not as experienced as you guys. Infact I dont disagree with you, i'm just offering a different opinion to try to explain why these biomechanic theories don't quite work how they're supposed to in theory.


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## mauricio24ny (Apr 28, 2009)

any help with avanar i just got it and i dont know anything about how to cycle it what to take with it my friend told me to take it everyday for 6 weeks and take testosterone boost with it then get something for my liver also some superpump 250 then i will be good to go i just want to know if this is true any help help with be well appreciated i just want to do it right thanks again for taking the time and read this


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## largepkg (Apr 28, 2009)

mauricio24ny said:


> any help with avanar i just got it and i dont know anything about how to cycle it what to take with it my friend told me to take it everyday for 6 weeks and take testosterone boost with it then get something for my liver also some superpump 250 then i will be good to go i just want to know if this is true any help help with be well appreciated i just want to do it right thanks again for taking the time and read this



Stop spamming up others threads!


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