# Strategic Use Of Gw-501516 While Cutting



## muad33b (Feb 24, 2015)

I had started a thread over at PHF to ask PA a question, which turned into more of a discussion/log, where I had spent a good amount of time posting some good information on GW-501516 (which I'm currently running with OstaRX) but it got trolled to death, and the mods refused to step up and directly tell people to knock it off. I have no tolerance for that kind of stuff, so I'm hoping that over here at IronMag I can have a drama-free thread. 

Normally I wouldn't be so rude as to post a link to another forum, but I'm hoping it will be allowed for history/continuity of this log - http://www.prohormoneforum.com/index.php/topic/86412-strategic-use-of-gw-501516-while-cutting/ - If not, anyone interested can google "Strategic Use Of Gw-501516 While Cutting" and find the original thread over at PHF.

I'm going to attempt to continue this here as a log for those who are interested. To get it started I'm going to re-post my current supps. My original plan was 12 weeks of GW and 8 weeks of Osta RX, started at the same time, with the GW running into first 4 weeks of PCT. I've completed 3 weeks and am working my way into the 2nd week. I had only been back to the gym for a couple of weeks before starting the cycle, just to get some strength back before I started cutting.

Here's my current complete supplement list:

- GW - 20mg/day (1/0/0 - i.e. all in AM)
- Osta RX - 5 caps/day (2/2/1)
- PES Erase - 3 caps/day (1/1/1)
- ALCAR+ALA 400mg/200mg  - 4 caps/day (2/2/0) (I think alcar keeps me up, so avoid in PM)
- Orange Triad - 6 tables (2/2/2)
- Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM Triple Strength (CVS) - 3 caps/day (1/1/1) - to add to what's in Orange Triad
- Olive Leaf Extract (previously described) - 6 caps/day (2/2/2)
- Garlic (previously described) - 6 caps/day (2/2/2)
- Celery Seed (previously described) - 3 caps/day (1/1/1)
- Theanine Serene (Source Naturals) - 3 caps/day (1/1/1)
- Carlson's Fish Oil - 1 Tablespoon/day w/ morning protein shake (serving is 1 teaspoon, so this is 3 servings, a TON of EPA/DHA)
- Food / Whey Shakes

Have some SAN Na-R-ALA and NOW ALCAR that will be replacing the Walmart ALCAR/ALA above when that runs out in a couple of days to up those dosages/quality a bit. Noting here that I need to add in more Calcium supplementation, and will throw in SAMe for liver (even tho osta isn't known to be toxic ) + other benefits.

I added the Erase, Olive Leaf, Garlic, Celery Seed and Theanine when my BP went very high, and normally just 1 Erase is all I can tolerate without joint pain so 3 Erase/day means to me I've got a lot more T around now, which is a good thing.

I came off a long break of inactivity and bad eating, so was definitely out of shape when I started about 3 weeks ago now. Here are some stats for changes since I started:

Starting weight: 267 - current 261 (down 6 lbs)
Waist - down 1 inch in last 2 weeks (didn't measure first week)
Arms - up 1/2 inch in last 2 weeks
Legs - up 1 inch in last 2 weeks

Here's a quote from the original thread where I talk about how I'm eating:



> My gut tells me that GW is acting like poor-mans-insulin (or no-pin-insulin) as my muscles feel full and my carbs have been quite low - basically besides fibrerous veggies, the equivilent to a couple of medium apples a day. My meals are typically:
> 
> - protein shake with water or 1/2 lowfat milk, 1/2 water (I add the milk to make it a "meal" - i.e. slow down the digestion a bit)
> - Chicken/Steak/Pork/Fish & non-startchy veggies (Broccoli/Asparagus/Green Beens/Salad/Peppers+Onions/Mushrooms/Tomatos, etc...)
> ...



I've since added a small banana pre-workout for some extra carbs and potassium. Here's a brief description my workouts:



> Presently working out for 60-70 minutes. Weight training first, then some LISS cardio for 20-25 minutes after to keep my heart rate around 130 for that duration - it's usually 125-145 when I get on whichever kind of hamster wheel I decide to use that day.



Currently working out 5x/week, have gravitated towards:

Su - legs/bis
M - chest
Tu - back
W - off
Th - Shoulders
F - Arms
Sa - off

This is a variation of what I would call the "Standard 5 day split" - chest, back, legs, shoulders, arms - but with a break in the middle as I find it tough to work out 5 days in a row on low carbs. I've been throwing in some additional work on bi's just because I've always felt that they've lagged for me, and they seem to recover quickly.

Also, as a final note in this intro, I'll mention that I'm loving the OstaRX, and almost want to run a 4th bottle, but I know that would be a bit much. That said, I'm tempted to throw in some low dose SD or Epi in my last 2 weeks if I feel I've made sufficient progress. 

Anyhow, that should be enough to get things started, there's a ton of more detail in the original thread if anyone cares enough to read through it.


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## muad33b (Feb 25, 2015)

Feeling pretty low on carbs today, it's been at least 3 weeks since I've had any quantity of carbs, I think I'm going to go ahead and have a strategic cheat meal and eat some pasta tonight to refill some glycogen.

My BP was 140/90 this morning, still a little high, hoping that my BP supps pull that down over the next week or so, although I do have a super high level of stress in my life, so that may be as low as I'm going to get for the time being.

My odd ear tinnitus is back today, which for those not familiar with my original thread is a kind of 'roaring' just in my left ear, that makes it hard to hear. It started the same day I started GW and OstaRX, and after about 10 days of it, I started to think it might have been BP related, and in checking BP I found that it was high. I hadn't started out the cycle with any BP or liver supps since I hadn't seen that OstaRX was known for that, but when I checked it was 170/110, so I jumped on BP supps, and then also decided to add the PES Erase. That has brought it down considerably obviously, but like I said, it's back today after not having it for the last few days. It can come and go throughout the day and from day to day, but if I get it on a day, it tends to start in the morning and dissipate later in the day. I may need to have a few drinks with my carb up meal tonight, in the name of science, to see if that helps. 

Anyone here ever run into this side? I mean, it could be allergies or some kind of cold I might be fighting off that doens't have any other noticible symptoms... and I haven't found anyone logging GW or OstaRX who've reported such a side... although I also can't find anyone running GW @ 20mg/day and OstaRX @ 5/day - actually I can't find a log of anyone just running OstaRX @ 5/day.


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## muad33b (Mar 2, 2015)

Just did my weigh-in/measurements:

Weight: same
Arms: same
Legs: up 1/2 inch
Waist: down 1/2 inch
Belly: down 1/2 inch

Strength in the gym as been continuing to go up, although my bench increase is lagging a bit behind other lifts, we'll see how things go tonight (chest day) now that I've got someone to spot me, I can push a bit harder, so I expect that will pick up. I deadlifted for the second time since coming off the bench, and had a great day, I was able to pull 405x4 with no chalk or straps, which is a first for me. My PR is 495x2 with straps, so I'm pretty thrilled. That said, I was so sore, I had to move my leg day, but my squat is coming up nicely as well. The way this is going, I expect to be approaching my squat and DL PRs within the next month... we'll see what my bench does.

Clearly I'm losing fat, but not as fast as I would have liked to have seen. That said, since I got drunk twice this week due to life stress and needing a break, I'm still pretty happy with the fact that I still made clear progress by losing fat around my midsection.

I've ordered Lipomorph, Norcodrene, and Oneiromancer as well as some torm for PCT.

I'm also resolving to not drink this week, and make it to the gym at least 6 days with both weight training and cardio all 6 days.

That all said, I may abandon this log as I don't think anyone is really following along.


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## muad33b (Mar 4, 2015)

Dropping the GW to 10mg/day and OstaRx to 3caps/day and adding in Epistane at 30mg/day for the next month. Decided to drop the GW because of the extreme dry mouth/throat that I just couldn't get rid of and realized that by skipping a day/dose it went away. Similar to that, with the OstaRX, if I take 2 caps at once I get a headache, and I'm only willing to dose pills 3x/day, plus I figured I'd use the extra Osta to low dose during the beginning of PCT. Also decided to start using some E-spray I had around, so basically the next month I'll be running:

10mg/day GW
30mg/day Epi
50 sprays/day E-spray (if E-spray runs out, I'll switch to D-spray)
(will likely drop Erase dosage if I run into arthralgia from low-E)
(dropping Garlic/Celery seed for BP control blend I like that includes that)
AL's Oneiromancer starting tonight
AL's Lipomorph + PES's Norcodrene, starting tomorrow as they just got here today
+ **everything else remaining the same as above**

Am considering 10mg/day of superdrol for the last 3 weeks since I have plenty of it, and I'd like to see my bench get back to where it used to be by the end of all this, plus since I'm SERMing the PCT anyhow...

Also, will be using UR Spray + Testforce 2 in PCT, along with the Torem -> Erase -> I3C deal... will prob need to get some more TF2 as I only have 1 tub, or maybe I'll see about some other non-hormonal test booster or the like.

Squated 405 x 4 and then 315 x 10 today, so I continue to climb back towards my PR of 495 x 8.

Am now eating 2 solid meals/day and 3 x 50g shakes with carbs pre/post workout. Started using Coconut oil when cooking, try to get one tablespoon a day involved just for some MCT's for gym energy. Prob just over making my 1g of protein per lb of lean mass each day, may kick this up a bit when starting the SD.

Also using MP's Assault pre-workout for some energy, as I gas out in the gym and have to stop the weights a little earlier than I want to - some folks had reported running into that after a month of GW - so hoping dropping the dose may help with that, we'll see.


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## ExtraZeus (Mar 10, 2015)

muad33b said:


> Also using MP's Assault pre-workout for some energy, as I gas out in the gym and have to stop the weights a little earlier than I want to - some folks had reported running into that after a month of GW - so hoping dropping the dose may help with that, we'll see.



Interesting, I thought GW was supposed to help with endurance? I have a couple bottles in my stash.


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## muad33b (Mar 11, 2015)

ExtraZeus said:


> Interesting, I thought GW was supposed to help with endurance? I have a couple bottles in my stash.



It does, but if you look around, you'll find others complaining of getting a bit of an opposite effect after about a month on 20mg/day - I think that the high dosage for a longer duration makes it hard to keep your blood sugar up during longer anaerobic weight training sessions. I also found at that dosage, I was constantly dehydrated, and as such had a sore throat.

I've since dropped back down to 10mg and have noticed those problems have gone away. I can't comment on the fat loss as much as due to some other stuff in my life my diet has been off the past week, and I have to stop cardio for the time being, but should be able to pick cardio back up in a week. I can say that I continue to get stronger, and feel quite "full" even considering that I'm on anabolics. I definitely feel that the increased insulin sensitivity and partitioning effects are very helpful for muscle growth, despite many folks out there feeling that GW would hurt this kind of endeavor due to a concern of type2 fibers converting to type1 fibers, if that is happening, it's certainly not causing any negative effects for me.


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## ExtraZeus (Mar 11, 2015)

Good to know, something to watch for when I finally crack em open.


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## mac10chap (Mar 11, 2015)

I ran GW with Test and Tren a while back and seemed to gain some endurance back that I had lost from the Tren.  Lost inches and some weight but couldnt really chalk that up to the GW as I was running 400mg of Tren as well.  I also have a couple more bottles in my stash and plan to hop back on pretty soon.   Currently on Test/low does deca/T3 so we'll see how it goes.


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## muad33b (Mar 11, 2015)

mac10chap said:


> I ran GW with Test and Tren a while back and seemed to gain some endurance back that I had lost from the Tren.  Lost inches and some weight but couldnt really chalk that up to the GW as I was running 400mg of Tren as well.  I also have a couple more bottles in my stash and plan to hop back on pretty soon.   Currently on Test/low does deca/T3 so we'll see how it goes.



What dosage did you run the GW at?


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