# Can someone explain this Arizona Immigration law thing to me...



## Doublebase (May 4, 2010)

please.  From what I understand they Arizona state law is now able to profile people that look like they are border jumpers.  Am I on the right track?  If so, then why is everyone against this?  Why are the Phoenix Suns wearing Los Sons uniforms?  I must be missing something.


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## jmorrison (May 4, 2010)

What is even crazier is that it isnt even really a new law.  The immigration laws are already on the federal books, but Arizonas leaders didnt feel that the government was doing a good enough job, so they implemented their own state level law to protect their citizens and now they are being depicted as rednecks, rascists, and in a wonderful stretch of liberl rhetoric, nazis.

All of this for actually doing what a leader is SUPPOSED to do, by actually upholding the oaths taken while taking office.

If the law is just great.  If it is unjust, then it should be abolished.  But regardless it is a law and should be upheld.


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## Dark Geared God (May 4, 2010)

Doublebase said:


> please. From what I understand they Arizona state law is now able to profile people that look like they are border jumpers. Am I on the right track? If so, then why is everyone against this? Why are the Phoenix Suns wearing Los Sons uniforms? I must be missing something.


 
Az law mirror federal law so whats the problem..70% of the state supports the law..they can pull you over only if you do something wrong..so a burnt light swerving..ect....the only ones that are against it are the one that are here unlawfully or they have something vested in the mexicans like gettig welfare bennies ..mexico get about 6 million from people working in AZ they send it back to thee familys in mexico and that just one state,


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## suprfast (May 4, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> What is even crazier is that it isnt even really a new law.  The immigration laws are already on the federal books, but Arizonas leaders didnt feel that the government was doing a good enough job, so they implemented their own state level law to protect their citizens and now they are being depicted as rednecks, rascists, and in a wonderful stretch of liberl rhetoric, nazis.
> 
> All of this for actually doing what a leader is SUPPOSED to do, by actually upholding the oaths taken while taking office.
> 
> If the law is just great.  If it is unjust, then it should be abolished.  But regardless it is a law and should be upheld.



What LIBERALS compare people to NAZIS.  Its a good thing Conservatives would never make such a comparison, EVER.


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## Dark Geared God (May 4, 2010)

suprfast said:


> What LIBERALS compare people to NAZIS. Its a good thing Conservatives would never make such a comparison, EVER.


 
They never would maybe. lennon and i don't mean john....


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## jmorrison (May 4, 2010)

suprfast said:


> What LIBERALS compare people to NAZIS.  Its a good thing Conservatives would never make such a comparison, EVER.



What does that have to do with anything?  I didn't once say anything supporting any sort of conservative view or conservatives in general.  This is a simple argument, and has nothing whatsoever to do with party politics, so I have no idea why the liberal front has gotten behind this so staunchly.

1.  It is a federal law.
2.  The state government has a duty to uphold the law.
3.  The federal government was subjectively not enforcing this law (as evidenced by their reaction to a state enacting their OWN law that is the same as the federal law.
4.  People are flipping out because the states government did exactly not only what they SHOULD do, but as they are OBLIGATED to do.


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## DOMS (May 4, 2010)

The Situation said:


> Az law mirror federal law so whats the problem..70% of the state supports the law..they can pull you over only if you do something wrong..so a burnt light swerving..ect....the only ones that are against it are the one that are here unlawfully or they have something vested in the mexicans like gettig welfare bennies ..mexico get about 6 million from people working in AZ they send it back to thee familys in mexico and that just one state,



That's the pathetic thing.  The Arizona law is a 100% duplicate of federal law, but because it's a state law now, Arizona can enforce it as it sees fit, and not at the whim of DC politicians that covert the (pathetic) latino vote.

So far, I've heard that the majority of Utah citizens want to duplicate the Arizona law.  If you could see the damage that Mexicans have wrought on Utah, you'd understand why.

I'm hoping this will spread across the south-west.  Then those bleeding heart states that call it racist can receive the illegals as they run to those states.  I wonder how the residents of those states will feel about the law when the _their_ state is overrun.


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## danzik17 (May 4, 2010)

DOMS said:


> That's the pathetic thing.  The Arizona law is a 100% duplicate of federal law, but because it's a state law now, Arizona can enforce it as it sees fit, and not at the whim of DC politicians that covert the (pathetic) latino vote.
> 
> So far, I've heard that the majority of Utah citizens want to duplicate the Arizona law.  If you could see the damage that Mexicans have wrought on Utah, you'd understand why.
> 
> I'm hoping this will spread across the south-west.  Then those bleeding heart states that call it racist can receive the illegals as they run to those states.  I wonder how the residents of those states will feel about the law when the _their_ state is overrun.



I live in a bleeding heart state.  I say ship them to Venezuela.


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## Dark Geared God (May 4, 2010)

DOMS said:


> That's the pathetic thing. The Arizona law is a 100% duplicate of federal law, but because it's a state law now, Arizona can enforce it as it sees fit, and not at the whim of DC politicians that covert the (pathetic) latino vote.
> 
> So far, I've heard that the majority of Utah citizens want to duplicate the Arizona law. If you could see the damage that Mexicans have wrought on Utah, you'd understand why.
> 
> I'm hoping this will spread across the south-west. Then those bleeding heart states that call it racist can receive the illegals as they run to those states. I wonder how the residents of those states will feel about the law when the _their_ state is overrun.


 
i have a house down in AZ so i have seen first hand the damage that these people do when u walk out your front door and no one speaks english and just15 year beore everuone did that has too make you think what is going on.. shit like this happen in the early 80's from cuba..we don'tt need the trash fromover there.


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## DOMS (May 4, 2010)

danzik17 said:


> I live in a bleeding heart state.  I say ship them to Venezuela.



You've got me vote.


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## DOMS (May 4, 2010)

The Situation said:


> i have a house down in AZ so i have seen first hand the damage that these people do when u walk out your front door and no one speaks english and just15 year beore everuone did that has too make you think what is going on.. shit like this happen in the early 80's from cuba..we don'tt need the trash fromover there.



I can do you one better.  I visited Utah back in '93.  I stayed there for six months.  Then I lived there from 1999 to 2007.  Back in '93, there were almost no Mexicans.  Now, they're all over the place.  The crime, especially the violent sort, has sky-rocketed.  

Back then, there was almost no graffiti, and what there was of it, went like "Jeff" or "Skateboarding is not a crime."  Now, it's gangs signs, and it's all over the place.  

Down town is where the more expensive houses are, so it's almost still 100% non-Mexican.  The only place that you'll see graffiti is the road up to the hospital, and it's all over the place.   You're going to see someone in the hospital for something serious, but if you're a Mexican, you've still gotta take time out to fuck up someone else's property.

So I've seen the absolute destruction that Mexicans bring to America, and it's why I hate them and want them out.

if they'd just stay in shitwater Mexico, I wouldn't give a rat's ass about them, but they have to insist on coming here and ruining everything they touch.


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## jmorrison (May 4, 2010)

My whole point still rests in that while I am not shocked at the public outcry, I am thoroughly shocked at the REASON for the outcry.  The people of our nation SHOULD be pissed off.  They should be pissed that the federal government is making its states enforce federal laws through inaction.  Why do we pay FIC then?  Why not just SIC?


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## DOMS (May 4, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> My whole point still rests in that while I am not shocked at the public outcry, I am thoroughly shocked at the REASON for the outcry.  The people of our nation SHOULD be pissed off.  They should be pissed that the federal government is making its states enforce federal laws through inaction.  Why do we pay FIC then?  Why not just SIC?



They do because, if they don't, then they're labelled racist.  Also, a lot of those that do complain are Mexicans that have already made it over here; so they don't count.


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## Big Smoothy (May 4, 2010)

Doublebase said:


> please.  From what I understand they Arizona state law is now able to profile people that look like they are border jumpers.  Am I on the right track?  If so, then why is everyone against this?  Why are the Phoenix Suns wearing Los Sons uniforms?  I must be missing something.



The "outrage" ironically, is by people who don't even live in Arizona.

Arizona has faced many fiscal problems and crime problems because of ILLegals.

Phoenix is now the kidnap capital of the nation and many analysts believe over 50% of the illegal marijuana is coming from Mexico through Phoenix.

As for profiling, it's common sense.  I don't think ILLegal Asian are crossing the Arizona border.  Of course, profiling is one means.


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## SilentBob187 (May 4, 2010)

Big Smoothy said:


> I don't think ILLegal Asian are crossing the Arizona border.



All the more reason for them to take that route.

It's a LAW!  Plain and simple.  If you're here illegally, you have no say in the matter.  Get out.  Are you in our country illegally? 

I'd go door to door.  It ain't profiling if you ask everybody.


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## lnvanry (May 4, 2010)

Phoenix to Wear 'Los Sons' Jerseys to Protest Law - Arizona's NBA team doesn't like immigration changes

Its a protest for the legislation...they don't want to destroy their market base here in AZ.  After all, our state is 30% latino according the last census (I'm sure its more like 40%-50% in reality).


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## jmorrison (May 4, 2010)

30% LEGAL latino community.  Who are taxpayers, and who should support the law right along with every other American with common sense.  No one is anti-immigration, they are simply anti ILLEGAL immigration.


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## suprfast (May 5, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> What does that have to do with anything?  I didn't once say anything supporting any sort of conservative view or conservatives in general.  This is a simple argument, and has nothing whatsoever to do with party politics, so I have no idea why the liberal front has gotten behind this so staunchly.
> 
> 1.  It is a federal law.
> 2.  The state government has a duty to uphold the law.
> ...



I never said you supported any one side, nor did I say i supported any side.  Your statement came across like only liberals would stoop so low as to call another group of people NAZIS.  Yes, it sickens me that they(liberals) would even think of calling another group(conservatives) NAZIS.  I hate hate that term, HATE IT.  I lost family to "NAZIS".  Nothing in the US is even close to deserving that title.  And no, i have nothing against Germans


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## jmorrison (May 5, 2010)

Roger that.  I didn't lose family to them, but I don't like being labled as a rascist nazi redneck simply because I support our nations laws and I see where you are coming from.


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## Doublebase (May 5, 2010)

Ok.  So what I thought was basically right.  I wish every state would implement this law.  It seems like everyone here is in agreement.  We need an opposing view.  Someone play devils advocate.


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## DOMS (May 5, 2010)

Doublebase said:


> Ok.  So what I thought was basically right.  I wish every state would implement this law.  It seems like everyone here is in agreement.  We need an opposing view.  Someone play devils advocate.



Okay, here goes:

As The Devil, I fully support the illegal (and legal) immigration of Mexicans into the USA.  I like things like theft, pedophilia, rape, murder, and the destruction of an organized, decent, society; all of which Mexicans bring to the USA.

Oh, and I also like their gaudy sense of style.


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## Dale Mabry (May 5, 2010)

On the surface, I would say this law is bad, profiling isn't right.  However, if I fly my happy ass to Italy and speak to an Italian cop in English, he has every right to ask for my passport.  This is essentially a "law" everywhere, not just in AZ and not just in the U.S., apparently they are now going to enforce it.  What is the point of having laws if you have no intention of enforcing them?


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## NeilPearson (May 5, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> On the surface, I would say this law is bad, profiling isn't right.  However, if I fly my happy ass to Italy and speak to an Italian cop in English, he has every right to ask for my passport.  This is essentially a "law" everywhere, not just in AZ and not just in the U.S., apparently they are now going to enforce it.  What is the point of having laws if you have no intention of enforcing them?



The law does NOT allow for profiling.  When you apply for a drivers license, you have to prove citizenship or show your work visa.  If you have a visa that expires, they set your drivers license to expire on the same date.

I am a white Canadian living and working in Arizona.  If my visa expired and I did not leave, I would have an expired drivers license.  If the police pulled me over and I couldn't produce a valid drivers license, they could arrest me under the new law.

This law works the same for me as it does for the Mexicans.  The police still need just cause for asking for your identification not just because you look Mexican.  It's just that in the course of their already routine investigations, if they find someone that is an illegal, they are allowed to arrest them.

I don't see the problem with that.


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## Dale Mabry (May 5, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> The law does NOT allow for profiling.  When you apply for a drivers license, you have to prove citizenship or show your work visa.  If you have a visa that expires, they set your drivers license to expire on the same date.
> 
> I am a white Canadian living and working in Arizona.  If my visa expired and I did not leave, I would have an expired drivers license.  If the police pulled me over and I couldn't produce a valid drivers license, they could arrest me under the new law.
> 
> ...



It doesn't ALLOW for profiling, it will essentially promote it, though.  Who's to say I'm asking for someone's papers because they are Mexican?  Who could prove that?  Also, how many times have you been asked for your papers and do you think that will change based on this law.  It will change for anyone that's brown.  I think this is going to be a nightmare down the road, but that's AZ's problem.  Police are going to profile, only a fool would suggest otherwise.  If there was a recall of all red licorice because the red color additive was poisonous, they wouldn't recall the black licorice just because it wasn't fair.


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## NeilPearson (May 5, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> It doesn't ALLOW for profiling, it will essentially promote it, though.  Who's to say I'm asking for someone's papers because they are Mexican?  Who could prove that?  Also, how many times have you been asked for your papers and do you think that will change based on this law.  It will change for anyone that's brown.  I think this is going to be a nightmare down the road, but that's AZ's problem.  Police are going to profile, only a fool would suggest otherwise.  If there was a recall of all red licorice because the red color additive was poisonous, they wouldn't recall the black licorice just because it wasn't fair.



I am white and I get asked for my papers EVERY time I get pulled over which isn't that often but it does happen.

I got pulled over on Monday because I hadn't put my new registration stickers on my license plate yet.  I produced my drivers license, my insurance and registration and he let me go.  He even asked me where I worked.  He had no way to know if I was a US citizen or not.  Had I not had my license and no proof of insurance or registration, I would have completely expected to be arrested.

This has nothing to do with profiling.  They aren't pulling people over for being Mexicans.  They are pulling people over for speeding, broken tail lights and not having registration stickers.  It's just now they can be charged for being an illegal immigrant as well as the other crimes they were committing that triggered the investigation


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## DOMS (May 5, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> I am white and I get asked for my papers EVERY time I get pulled over which isn't that often but it does happen.
> 
> I got pulled over on Monday because I hadn't put my new registration stickers on my license plate yet.  I produced my drivers license, my insurance and registration and he let me go.  He even asked me where I worked.  He had no way to know if I was a US citizen or not.  Had I not had my license and no proof of insurance or registration, I would have completely expected to be arrested.
> 
> This has nothing to do with profiling.  They aren't pulling people over for being Mexicans.  They are pulling people over for speeding, broken tail lights and not having registration stickers.  It's just now they can be charged for being an illegal immigrant as well as the other crimes they were committing that triggered the investigation



And it's a _*Canadian*_ that has to point this out.

Thanks.  A least someone gets it.


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## SilentBob187 (May 5, 2010)

And right about now is when the Census folk are going door to door to those who did not fill out their census...   My idea's sounding better and better!


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## Dark Geared God (May 5, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Okay, here goes:
> 
> As The Devil, I fully support the illegal (and legal) immigration of Mexicans into the USA. I like things like theft, pedophilia, rape, murder, and the destruction of an organized, decent, society; all of which Mexicans bring to the USA.
> 
> Oh, and I also like their gaudy sense of style.


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## Dale Mabry (May 5, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> I am white and I get asked for my papers EVERY time I get pulled over which isn't that often but it does happen.
> 
> I got pulled over on Monday because I hadn't put my new registration stickers on my license plate yet.  I produced my drivers license, my insurance and registration and he let me go.  He even asked me where I worked.  He had no way to know if I was a US citizen or not.  Had I not had my license and no proof of insurance or registration, I would have completely expected to be arrested.
> 
> This has nothing to do with profiling.  They aren't pulling people over for being Mexicans.  They are pulling people over for speeding, broken tail lights and not having registration stickers.  It's just now they can be charged for being an illegal immigrant as well as the other crimes they were committing that triggered the investigation



That's not the point.  It has nothing to with driving or whatever.  A cop has the right to ask for your papers where there is reasonable suspicion that you are an illegal immigrant.  While this may happen in a traffic stop, it could and probably will happen in a situation where someone may be jaywalking.  Like I said, I think profiling in this case is an obvious use of intelligence, you aren't looking for illegal U.S.Citizens so it makes no sense to pull over crackers.  What is going on now is probably going to be significant in shaping U.S. immigration reform, hopefully they get a handle on their shit, but I won't hold my breath.


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## Dark Geared God (May 5, 2010)




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## jmorrison (May 5, 2010)

Racial profiling in and of itself is a legitamite law enforcement practice.  It has become a dirty word since the late 90's since it was brought to light that it was being used by some police officers to needlessly harrass people.

The problem isnt the profiling, its cops harrassing people.  Which they will continue to do anyway.


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## GFR (May 5, 2010)

Doublebase said:


> please.  From what I understand they Arizona state law is now able to profile people that look like they are border jumpers.  Am I on the right track?  If so, then why is everyone against this?  Why are the Phoenix Suns wearing Los Sons uniforms?  I must be missing something.


The law simply lets cops arrest dirty Mexican border jumpers, you know the Mexicans who can't even muster up one word of legible English.   

















































...


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## bandaidwoman (May 6, 2010)

When I get a tan, due to my half asian status people sometimes assume I am latino and start speaking to me in spanish.  I used to go to arizona all the time to mountain bike, I may not just because I don't want to deal with the hassle of proving my citizenship ( that and I don't know where I put my  passport) when I'm in my dark, exotic looking summer state.

Unfortunatly, the illegal Haitians, black africans, Chinese ( like my daughter's chinese teacher)  and the numerous Canandians won't feel the impact of this law.   ( as for my daughter's chinese teacher the dumbass private school human resources forgot to renew her H1B visa two  months ago so technically she is a illegal.) 

As an ethnic looking citizen, Arizona now becomes somewhat of a "police" state where you have to carry a passport around if you just go to the corner store. 

I don't blame them but they  lost a well paying ethnic looking mountain biker ( I used to go to their resorts ).  By the way, since english is my 6th language, I speak with a foreign accent except most can't make it out ( two dialects of chinese, malaysian and two dialects of hindi were my first 5).


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## I Are Baboon (May 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> By the way, since english is my 6th language, I speak with a foreign accent except most can't make it out ( two dialects of chinese, malaysian and two dialects of hindi were my first 5).



Meh, I'd pick that up in a second.  

I've never mountin biked in Arizona.  The closest I've come is SoCal (San Juan Capistrano).


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## DOMS (May 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Unfortunatly, the illegal Haitians, black africans, Chinese ( like my daughter's chinese teacher)  and the numerous Canandians won't feel the impact of this law.



Haitians: not until Florida passes the same sort of law.
Chinese: not until California passes the same sort of law.

I like how you _completely_ gloss over the fact that every other ethnic group sneaking into the US amounts to a only a tiny fraction of the the number of Mexicans that sneak in.  The governor of Arizona isn't upset because a couple of Mexicans came into his state.  He upset because about 8% (possibly more) of the population in his state are illegals and a large number pass through every year.  All of which causes harm to his state and people.



bandaidwoman said:


> As an ethnic looking citizen, Arizona now becomes somewhat of a "police" state where you have to carry a passport around if you just go to the corner store.



So let me get this straight: the fact that Arizona has been forced to enact a local law in order to properly enforce a federal law to stop a torrent of illegals into its borders is the fault of Americans in Arizona and not the fault of the _*torrent*_ of Mexicans?  There's your_ minority blindness_ right there.  If you're a minority, and there's a fact about minorities that you don't like, you just cant see it.



bandaidwoman said:


> I don't blame them but they  lost a well paying ethnic looking mountain biker ( I used to go to their resorts ).  By the way, since english is my 6th language, I speak with a foreign accent except most can't make it out ( two dialects of chinese, malaysian and two dialects of hindi were my first 5).



All the other tangible, and non-tangible, benefits will more than make up for your not going there.  When violent crime and theft-related crimes plummet, you won't be missed.  When tourism increases due to other Americans going there because they feel it's a safer place to go, you won't be missed either.

Short version: Ah, another minority telling Americans that enforcing its own laws (to protect its sovereignty) is a bad thing.  Color me surprised.

Lastly, as NeilPearson has put it, nearly everyone has had their identity checked.  When I've been question by the police, I've had to produce my drivers license (or my standard ID before I was a driver), to prove who I was;  but feel free to keep playing the race card.  The good thing is that in Arizona, and hopefully more States in the future, there are people that don't give a shit.


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## ALBOB (May 6, 2010)

Waaaaaaa, they're racial profiling.  Waaaaaaaa!!! 

Get the fuck over it already.  If a call goes out to police in a city saying a robbery had just been commited.  The suspect is a black male, approximately six feet tall weight 200 lbs.  He's wearing blue jeans and a white t-shirt.

Now, are the police supposed to go around asking questions of every five foot tall Asian woman in the city?

GET THE FUCK OVER IT ALREADY!!! 

And by the way, since this law EXACTLY mirrors the federal law, where was all the outrage when that passed?


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## bandaidwoman (May 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Haitians: not until Florida passes the same sort of law.
> Chinese: not until California passes the same sort of law.
> 
> I like how you _completely_ gloss over the fact that every other ethnic group sneaking into the US amounts to a only a tiny fraction of the the number of Mexicans that sneak in.  The governor of Arizona isn't upset because a couple of Mexicans came into his state.  He upset because about 8% (possibly more) of the population in his state are illegals and a large number pass through every year.  All of which causes harm to his state and people.
> ...



You totally missed the point that I didn't blame them and agreed with them.  

Did I say they should not enact this law? Show me where I said this. All I stated was a fact, illegal aliens of other colors will not be impacted in that state, that was all I said.  


But, when I was in south central and everyone assumed I was latino, *I just don't want the fucking hassle of having to prove my citizenship in my own country. I still have my chinese one though..hmmm wonder what they would do with  that.   *, I'm just too damn  lazy about having to go and get another passport now that I lost mine,  so I'm just going to start going to back to colorado to do my mountain biking.   University of Arizona, like Emory, has a huge contigency of latino doctors.  I'll bet they are telling their families not to come visit them in Arizona.  No big deal. I never once said they should not have enacted this.  Up in Dartmouth, we saw a huge contingency of illegal Canadians, ( yeah, in the emergency room at Dartmouth Hithcock  we had to treat them for free like the Mexicans I treated for free in south central LA).  (They gravitated towards the logging industry up there). Just hope to be a chinese illegal alien ( like my daughter's teacher) or a hill billy northern logger from Canada.

Big deal, ethnic people in arizona like me will just have to pretend they live in a police state. If they don't like it they can leave.  Since I don't live there,I can just choose some other fabulous mountain biking state to pour my all my money into.....


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## NeilPearson (May 6, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> That's not the point.  It has nothing to with driving or whatever.  A cop has the right to ask for your papers where there is reasonable suspicion that you are an illegal immigrant.  While this may happen in a traffic stop, it could and probably will happen in a situation where someone may be jaywalking.  Like I said, I think profiling in this case is an obvious use of intelligence, you aren't looking for illegal U.S.Citizens so it makes no sense to pull over crackers.  What is going on now is probably going to be significant in shaping U.S. immigration reform, hopefully they get a handle on their shit, but I won't hold my breath.



Except they can't and won't ask you for your id unless they are investigating you for something other than just looking like a Mexican


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## NeilPearson (May 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> When I get a tan, due to my half asian status people sometimes assume I am latino and start speaking to me in spanish.  I used to go to arizona all the time to mountain bike, I may not just because I don't want to deal with the hassle of proving my citizenship ( that and I don't know where I put my  passport) when I'm in my dark, exotic looking summer state.
> 
> Unfortunatly, the illegal Haitians, black africans, Chinese ( like my daughter's chinese teacher)  and the numerous Canandians won't feel the impact of this law.   ( as for my daughter's chinese teacher the dumbass private school human resources forgot to renew her H1B visa two  months ago so technically she is a illegal.)
> 
> ...



This is completely false.  Read what is in the law.  Did you know it is almost identical to the federal law?

Police can't just pull you over while mountain biking because of the color of your skin.

You don't ever have to produce a passport.  Your drivers license is valid enough.

Nothing about this law changes anything about the way the police investigate people.  It just allows them to arrest you, if in the course of their other investigation for something like speeding, you are unable to show them your drivers license.


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## NeilPearson (May 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> All I stated was a fact, illegal aliens of other colors will not be impacted in that state, that was all I said.



Of course they will.  Even me as a white guy, I am affected the same way.

THE POLICE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO QUESTION SOMEONE ON THE BASIS OF SKIN COLOR

They haven't been allowed to in the past and they aren't allowed to now.

The police simply have the obligation to ask for your id if you are commiting some other kind of crime.  If you don't have ID, you are arrested.  What the hell does this have to do with color?


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## bandaidwoman (May 6, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> Of course they will.  Even me as a white guy, I am affected the same way.
> 
> THE POLICE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO QUESTION SOMEONE ON THE BASIS OF SKIN COLOR
> 
> ...



racial profiling is a fact and a necessity, have never been against it. And since many of my patients are cops, they tell me they do it all the time, just not on paper....


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## bandaidwoman (May 6, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> This is completely false.  Read what is in the law.  Did you know it is almost identical to the federal law?
> 
> Police can't just pull you over while mountain biking because of the color of your skin.
> 
> ...



I have lost my driver's  license, cell phone, you  name it  mountain biking at least 3  times.  I get into my car and since my husband will tell you I love speed,  I get pulled over for speeding, no id, no passport ,I get hauled off to jail with my funny accent in Arizona, sorry, I'm not stupid. 

I went on a cruise in the caribbeans when I was in college, ( way before 9-11), I had my drivers license but the rest of my wallet got lost on the beach so I did not have the cruise ID.  My killer tan is at it's best, my funny accent, they gave me crap and I almost did not get back on the cruise line.  No hard feelings, I'm sure that is a great port of entry for illegals .


----------



## NeilPearson (May 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> racial profiling is a fact and a necessity, have never been against it. And since many of my patients are cops, they tell me they do it all the time, just not on paper....



So nothing is really changing then


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## NeilPearson (May 6, 2010)

Besides the police can't possibly just pull people over for the color of their skin.  There simply isn't enough time or space to put them all.  

There is half a million of them.  The cops aren't just going to be rounding them up.  They will have more than they can handle just arresting the ones that get pulled over speeding, driving without a license and no insurance.  If they arrest them, they have to put them somewhere.

They probably aren't going to make a huge deal if you lose your license and look ethnic.  Are your plates current?  Do you have insurance?  They can probably look you up in their system if you can show your name on insurance.  Do you speak English?  

There are lots of things that police are going to use to decide if you are worth arresting or if they should just grab one of the other 50 people that just passed by without proper vehicle registration.

You will be just as safe mountain biking here as you were before.... even if you lose your id, I am sure you could explain your way out of it with a little proof that you are legal(like insurance, proper license plates, registration, etc)

The police are aware that lawsuits could come up from arresting the wrong people.  They want to avoid that as much as you do.  They aren't going to arrest you unless it is obvious... and believe me, there are thousands of obvious ones here to choose from


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## bandaidwoman (May 6, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> So nothing is really changing then



except this law makes it more "kosher" I guess.


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## Dark Geared God (May 6, 2010)

GeorgeForemanRules said:


> The law simply lets cops arrest dirty Mexican border jumpers, you know the Mexicans who can't even muster up one word of legible English.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Dark Geared God (May 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> racial profiling is a fact and a necessity, have never been against it. And since many of my patients are cops, they tell me they do it all the time, just not on paper....


 
My grandfather did it all the time and he's brown... he worked in Florida
there would be group that said you pulle dme over because i'm brown...he would say well if 98% of the community u work in is brown cuba ect what do u think the chances are of pull over someone thats brown eah time you stop someone?


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## Dark Geared God (May 6, 2010)

I Are Baboon said:


> Meh, I'd pick that up in a second.
> 
> I've never mountin biked in Arizona. The closest I've come is SoCal (San Juan Capistrano).


 
az has a lot of great places to bike.


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## bandaidwoman (May 6, 2010)

The Situation said:


> My grandfather did it all the time and he's brown... he worked in Florida
> there would be group that said you pulle dme over because i'm brown...he would say well if 98% of the community u work in is brown cuba ect what do u think the chances are of pull over someone thats brown eah time you stop someone?



my cop patients tell me the one downside is that illegals who witness car accidents or crimes won't step up to the plate to be witnesses.  I never thought of that, not sure what percentage of reported crimes are by illegals but I'm sure it's pretty low. 

Yeah, racial profiling is a fact I've experienced it and  my black partner( with the phd in chemistry and was a band geek ) unfortunately looks like a huge ex football player so when he is milling around the hospital parking lot at 2 am ( after going in to stabilize a ICU patient at 1) he gets questioned all the time, but he knows the gaurds are just doing their jobs.  I keep telling him to wear his scrubs and white coat but he likes to sleep in sweat pants and a georgia tech shirt.....


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## Dark Geared God (May 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> my cop patients tell me the one downside is that illegals who witness car accidents or crimes won't step up to the plate to be witnesses. I never thought of that, not sure what percentage of reported crimes are by illegals but I'm sure it's pretty low.
> 
> Yeah, racial profiling is a fact I've experienced it and my black partner( with the phd in chemistry and was a band geek ) unfortunately looks like a huge ex football player so when he is milling around the hospital parking lot at 2 am ( after going in to stabilize a ICU patient at 1) he gets questioned all the time, but he knows the gaurds are just doing their jobs. I keep telling him to wear his scrubs and white coat but he likes to sleep in sweat pants and a georgia tech shirt.....


 
well leik in the asian communitys they don't want to get involved because it make mexicanlook bad if it one of there own 2nd in mexico if you rat someone out the gang or drug cartel will kill u and your family...plus they didn't want to get deported.. now alot are leaving AZ thank god..

i could alway tell the wetback from the usa born mexicans... just look at they way they act and dress.. true


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## ALBOB (May 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> I have lost my driver's  license, cell phone, you  name it  mountain biking at least 3  times.  I get into my car and since my husband will tell you I love speed,  I get pulled over for speeding, no id, no passport ,I get hauled off to jail with my funny accent in Arizona, *sorry, I'm not stupid. *



Then quit acting that way.

Tell me exactly what would happen to you BEFORE this law was passed if you got pulled over for speeding and you had no I.D., no passport, no anything.  You'd get hauled off to jail.  So, what's changed?????

Knock off the hysterics.  NOTHING HAS CHANGED!  This law EXACTLY mirrors the federal law that's been in place for years.   You're simply buying into the libearal crap that's being spread around trying to make it out to be the end of the world for freedom in America.  The ONLY thing this law does is allow enforcement on the state level since the feds aren't doing their jobs.  That's it.  Nothing more, nothing less.


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## Dark Geared God (May 6, 2010)

ALBOB said:


> Then quit acting that way.
> 
> Tell me exactly what would happen to you BEFORE this law was passed if you got pulled over for speeding and you had no I.D., no passport, no anything. You'd get hauled off to jail. So, what's changed?????
> 
> Knock off the hysterics. NOTHING HAS CHANGED! This law EXACTLY mirrors the federal law that's been in place for years. You're simply buying into the libearal crap that's being spread around trying to make it out to be the end of the world for freedom in America. The ONLY thing this law does is allow enforcement on the state level since the feds aren't doing their jobs. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.


 
Well said


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## lnvanry (May 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> When I get a tan, due to my half asian status people sometimes assume I am latino and start speaking to me in spanish.  I used to go to arizona all the time to mountain bike, I may not just because I don't want to deal with the hassle of proving my citizenship ( that and I don't know where I put my  passport) when I'm in my dark, exotic looking summer state.
> 
> Unfortunatly, the illegal Haitians, black africans, Chinese ( like my daughter's chinese teacher)  and the numerous Canandians won't feel the impact of this law.   ( as for my daughter's chinese teacher the dumbass private school human resources forgot to renew her H1B visa two  months ago so technically she is a illegal.)
> 
> ...



There are very few places that police are going to practice this law (PHX will, Tucson won't, Flagstaff won't)...and if by some odd chance you do get stopped, i'm sure your fluent English will do.


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## DOMS (May 6, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> You totally missed the point that I didn't blame them and agreed with them.



What?  You mean that I misunderstood your complaining that you might be asked to show proof of ID and that you'd wouldn't go back to Arizona?  Like this plaintive wailing, "I don't blame them but they  lost a well paying ethnic looking mountain biker ( I used to go to their resorts )."?

Yeah, I guess I should've understood that "I don't blame them" equals solid support.




bandaidwoman said:


> But, when I was in south central and everyone assumed I was latino, *I just don't want the fucking hassle of having to prove my citizenship in my own country. I still have my chinese one though..hmmm wonder what they would do with  that.   *, I'm just too damn  lazy about having to go and get another passport now that I lost mine



Having a valid ID is every Americans responsibility, lazy or not.



bandaidwoman said:


> (They gravitated towards the logging industry up there). Just hope to be a chinese illegal alien ( like my daughter's teacher) or a hill billy northern logger from Canada.



You boo-hoo the fact that Mexican-looking people, but not others.  Never mind that there is nothing in the law that says so, or that, as I and others have mentioned, everyone who crosses the with the police has to provide valid identification.

But feel free to keep trying to be some sort of martyr.


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## DOMS (May 6, 2010)

lnvanry said:


> There are very few places that police are going to practice this law (PHX will, Tucson won't, Flagstaff won't)...and if by some odd chance you do get stopped, i'm sure your fluent English will do.



If she really is an American, she can just give them her social security number.  That's what I've done when I've been pulled over, but left my wallet at home.

I think that she really doesn't like the law, but doesn't have the balls to say so.


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## Dark Geared God (May 6, 2010)

DOMS said:


> If she really is an American, she can just give them her social security number. That's what I've done when I've been pulled over, but left my wallet at home.
> 
> I think that she really doesn't like the law, but doesn't have the balls to say so.


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## bandaidwoman (May 7, 2010)

ALBOB said:


> Then quit acting that way.
> 
> Tell me exactly what would happen to you BEFORE this law was passed if you got pulled over for speeding and you had no I.D., no passport, no anything.  You'd get hauled off to jail.  So, what's changed?????
> 
> Knock off the hysterics.  NOTHING HAS CHANGED!  This law EXACTLY mirrors the federal law that's been in place for years.   You're simply buying into the libearal crap that's being spread around trying to make it out to be the end of the world for freedom in America.  The ONLY thing this law does is allow enforcement on the state level since the feds aren't doing their jobs.  That's it.  Nothing more, nothing less.



It's not hysterics you have obviously not been a victim of ethnocentricism. Two years ago my husband and I tried to check into a vacant motel in virginia , they told us they don't serve "folks like us", obviously mixed marriage.  This was 21st century.   I nearly get booted off a cruise ship because of my looks etc.  Have you ever heard of being proactive?


----------



## bandaidwoman (May 7, 2010)

lnvanry said:


> There are very few places that police are going to practice this law (PHX will, Tucson won't, Flagstaff won't)...and if by some odd chance you do get stopped, i'm sure your fluent English will do.



I have strong accent that is not obviously chinese


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## bandaidwoman (May 7, 2010)

DOMS said:


> What?  You mean that I misunderstood your complaining that you might be asked to show proof of ID and that you'd wouldn't go back to Arizona?  Like this plaintive wailing, "I don't blame them but they  lost a well paying ethnic looking mountain biker ( I used to go to their resorts )."?



I'm smart, I am very ethnic, I have had services denied to me ( hotel stay, almost did not get back on a cruise ship and many more but people will just think I am whining) , many incidents, I can throw my 6 figure salary expendable income in areas that don't view me with suspect. 



> Yeah, I guess I should've understood that "I don't blame them" equals solid support.




reading comprehension, I never said it was wrong, just pointing out the collateral damage. 





> Having a valid ID is every Americans responsibility, lazy or not.



I never had a drivers license till I was 24 when I had to do clinicals. Too poor to own a car, should I have lugged around my passport? My brother was 6 foot 4 at and very mature looking at the age of 15, should he be required to carry around ID when he walked around Mall?






> You boo-hoo the fact that Mexican-looking people, but not others.  Never mind that there is nothing in the law that says so, or that, as I and others have mentioned, everyone who crosses the with the police has to provide valid identification.



I agree, unfortunately the Canadians stealing lucrative jobs in New Hampshire, Minnesota etc. from americans are carry around legal drivers licenses and when they get pulled over no one asks for their passports or H!B visa or J1 visa ( which they don't have).  They will never institute that law because too many milk and honey whites live in New Hampshire and they don't want to be targetted.  Loss of jobs probably doesn't mean as much as natural freedom.  

Honestly, in 20 years when whites become minorities, think about it, more than half the us citizenship will have to carry around ID as if they are living in North Korea.  ( and not just drivers licenses).    When my husband and I go to china , they don't require him to carry his passport when we go sightseeing at the wall, or teracotta warriors etc.  Now, don't you think the chinese media already hasn't used this to state we have become more totalitarian than they?


----------



## jmorrison (May 7, 2010)

Good god you are irritating.

You are just walking around the issue.  If you get pulled over for speeding, with no id, proof of insurance, license etc etc etc you wont get "hauled off to jail".  You will be detained until your identity can be confirmed.  That is IF the cop is even halfassed doing his job.

Guess what honey?  It should be like this in every single state.  

And as to being dealt with unfairly because of your race.  Of course you have.  It's wrong, unamerican, and redneck in the extreme, but it is a fact of life for some people.  Avoid them.

No amount of your rhetoric hides the fact that you are complaining about the law and have minority blindness.  "I won't go back".  Why?  Are you planning on running around without an ID?  Or do you not remember your social security number?  Either you are just playing the racial pity card or you are truly stupid. 

I don't give a shit about your 6 figure income or your education.  You are obviously biased because of your skin color and not allowing your touted intellect to come into play here.  You are just knee-jerking.


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## DOMS (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> I'm smart, I am very ethnic, I have had services denied to me ( hotel stay, almost did not get back on a cruise ship and many more but people will just think I am whining) , many incidents, I can throw my 6 figure salary expendable income in areas that don't view me with suspect.
> 
> reading comprehension, I never said it was wrong, just pointing out the collateral damage.



Readong comprehension?  Try _writing_ comprehension.  Go back and read the original post  you wrote.  You only bitched about it, and threw in "I don't blame them", right before bitching again.





bandaidwoman said:


> I never had a drivers license till I was 24 when I had to do clinicals. Too poor to own a car, should I have lugged around my passport? My brother was 6 foot 4 at and very mature looking at the age of 15, should he be required to carry around ID when he walked around Mall?



Ri-i-ight, Ms. America; and you've never had a social security number?   Or a regular (non-drivers license) ID that it's required to do almost anything?  You know, like opening a bank account or applying to a college.




bandaidwoman said:


> Honestly, in 20 years when whites become minorities



Not if we enforce our anti-immigration laws.


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## DOMS (May 7, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> No amount of your rhetoric hides the fact that you are complaining about the law and have minority blindness.  "I won't go back".  Why?  Are you planning on running around without an ID?  Or do you not remember your social security number?



She's either not giving the full story or she's lying about something.  Supposedly, she started college, but had no state issued ID.  Something's not kosher about that.  She's also never mentioned using her social security number.


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## ALBOB (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> I'm smart, I am very ethnic, I have had services denied to me ( hotel stay, almost did not get back on a cruise ship and many more but people will just think I am whining) , many incidents, I can throw my 6 figure salary expendable income in areas that don't view me with suspect.



 Waaaaaa.........I got discriminated against. Waaaaaaaaaa 

You keep trying to impress us by TELLING us you're so smart.  Then you spout STUPID crap like this.  

Yeah, maybe you DID get discriminated against.  Guess what, it was PRIVATE CITIZENS that did it, not anyone from law enforcement.  And it didn't have a goddamn thing to do with this law.  DOMS is right, you don't know shit about this law.  You simply don't like it because it's what's required of you to keep your liberal membership card.  And you don't have the balls to come out and say so.

P.S.  Spare us the repeated reminders of your "six figure income".  It's neither impressive or pertinent.  And it sure as Hell doesn't change the fact that you sound like a fucking idiot on this issue.


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## Dale Mabry (May 7, 2010)

Man, you guys are assholes.  Just because she realizes there will be indirect damage done to AZ's economy, any intelligent person would realize this, and she has no intention of going back there she is race-baiting?  Let me ask you this, if you went in to a store that treated you like a 2nd class citizen would you go back and give them more of your money?  

Let's assume that there is no direct racial profiling, which there will be at least some isolated cases.  Do you think a brown person who forgets their ID will be treated the same as a white one?  Like I said, I am fine with this law, it obviously needs to be done, but to attack someone just because their political ideology is different from yours is pretty fucked up and immature.  Plus, wasn't it you DOMS who said the reason you dislike certain races is because of your past with them?  I don't see how BAW's past has any less relevance to how she will handle this situation than you do yours, but because she is liberal her past experiences are obviously false and made up?


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## NeilPearson (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> except this law makes it more "kosher" I guess.



No there is no where in the law that says they are allowed to profile.

It has been a federal law for a long, long time.

Half a million illegal immigrants later, it is obvious the federal government is either incapable or unwilling to enforce their own law so we copied the law and made it a state law.  This way we are actually able to enforce it.


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## NeilPearson (May 7, 2010)

lnvanry said:


> There are very few places that police are going to practice this law (PHX will, Tucson won't, Flagstaff won't)...and if by some odd chance you do get stopped, i'm sure your fluent English will do.



He's right, anywhere that you would be mountain biking... they aren't going to care


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## DOMS (May 7, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Man, you guys are assholes.  Just because she realizes there will be indirect damage done to AZ's economy, any intelligent person would realize this, and she has no intention of going back there she is race-baiting?  Let me ask you this, if you went in to a store that treated you like a 2nd class citizen would you go back and give them more of your money?



I've already addressed that.  The benefits will far outweigh any negatives.



Dale Mabry said:


> Let's assume that there is no direct racial profiling, which there will be at least some isolated cases.  Do you think a brown person who forgets their ID will be treated the same as a white one?  Like I said, I am fine with this law, it obviously needs to be done, but to attack someone just because their political ideology is different from yours is pretty fucked up and immature.  Plus, wasn't it you DOMS who said the reason you dislike certain races is because of your past with them?  I don't see how BAW's past has any less relevance to how she will handle this situation than you do yours, but because she is liberal her past experiences are obviously false and made up?



Bullshit.  The law was just passed and has had zero effect on her yet, but she's already spouting out about never going back.  She obviously has a problem with the law itself, but doesn't have the balls to say so; and you're apparently not smart enough to see it.  Bitching about not being able to prove who she is because she lost her ID?  Like she doesn't know her social security number; or name and date of birth?  Her post, like yours, is bullshit.

And it has nothing to do with her being liberal.  It has everything to do with people trying to say that America shouldn't enforce its law or protect its borders.  I've heard of pulling the race card, but pulling the _political_ card?  Fuck that.


----------



## jmorrison (May 7, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Just because she realizes there will be indirect damage done to AZ's economy



No.  The lower crime rate, violence and illegal workers will have a DIRECT improvement on AZ's economy.  Will a few misguided people avoid Arizona?  Probably.  Will they be missed?  No.



Dale Mabry said:


> any intelligent person would realize this, and she has no intention of going back there she is race-baiting?  Let me ask you this, if you went in to a store that treated you like a 2nd class citizen would you go back and give them more of your money?



Of course not.  What does that have to do with anything?  No one in Arizona has done anything to her.  Nothing.  



Dale Mabry said:


> Let's assume that there is no direct racial profiling, which there will be at least some isolated cases.  Do you think a brown person who forgets their ID will be treated the same as a white one?



Bro, this is a nonsensical argument.  Of course there will be profiling.  Of course a "brown" person who forgets their ID will be treated differently.  Is there an issue with white canadians thronging into AZ?  No.  Political correctness should not override common sense.  




Dale Mabry said:


> Plus, wasn't it you DOMS who said the reason you dislike certain races is because of your past with them?  I don't see how BAW's past has any less relevance to how she will handle this situation than you do yours, but because she is liberal her past experiences are obviously false and made up?



Maybe I am just slow today, but I don't understand what you are trying to say.  What does her past have to do with AZ implementing an immigration law that is already a federal law?  Who said anything about not liking other races?  This isnt about race.  That's the fuggin problem here.  All the liberals acting like this is some sort of hang the mexican campaign.  This is about US citizens and illegal immigration.  I am 100% FOR immigration.  Shit my family came over in the 30's!  But I am for LEGAL immigration.


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## bandaidwoman (May 7, 2010)

Thanks dale, I'm not being ideological, I just like good,expedient service and not being detained needlessly or denied lodging over and over again.  




Two things regarding my social security number....

Would any of you honestly give  a social security number to a cruise ship dumb ass personell just to get back on a ship?  Can they run the numbers through their data bases that they keep on hand at the pier in Jamaica?  They can now, but not in 1991.
It's common sense. 

Since I am a naturalized citizen, ( took the citizenship exam) I did not always have a social security number anyway.  


By the way, do you realize we can get rid of fence hopping if we encouraged Mexico to  streamline the  beaurocracy and cost of the "legal" means of coming over to this country?  It costs almost the equivalent of a year of  the average mexican  salary to get all the paperwork to come here from mexico.  How do I know? I dated the chief resident at Emory in 1997, now a pulmonologist and professor at Emory, he came from a wealthy spanish castillian family from Mexico  that could afford it, but the average middle income earner in Mexico can't afford it. 

I don't condone illegality since I had to jump through all the hoops to do it myself but by then I could afford it by then.   I think it cost me a total between one and two thousand. 
By the way, the university of Arizona has had a huge dip in student enrollment since this was issued.


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## ALBOB (May 7, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Man, you guys are assholes.  Just because she realizes there will be indirect damage done to AZ's economy, any intelligent person would realize this, and she has no intention of going back there she is race-baiting?  Let me ask you this, if you went in to a store that treated you like a 2nd class citizen would you go back and give them more of your money?
> 
> Let's assume that there is no direct racial profiling, which there will be at least some isolated cases.  Do you think a brown person who forgets their ID will be treated the same as a white one?  Like I said, I am fine with this law, it obviously needs to be done, but to attack someone just because their political ideology is different from yours is pretty fucked up and immature.  Plus, wasn't it you DOMS who said the reason you dislike certain races is because of your past with them?  I don't see how BAW's past has any less relevance to how she will handle this situation than you do yours, but because she is liberal her past experiences are obviously false and made up?



We're assholes?  Because we've got the guts to tell someone they're acting stupid?  So be it.  I'm sure as Hell not gonna lose any sleep over that.

Not a single thing she's said has ANYTHING to do with this law.  I'm not attacking her for her ideology, I'm attacking her because she's acting STUPID.


----------



## ALBOB (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Thanks dale, I'm not being ideological, I just like good,expedient service and not being detained needlessly or denied lodging over and over again.



BULLSHIT!  You're being 100% ideological.  How on God's green Earth does this law have anything to do with the treatment you get at a hotel?  It doesn't and you Goddamn well know it.  But that's the kind of crap you have to throw out to try and support your IDEOLOGICAL position.


----------



## NeilPearson (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> I never had a drivers license till I was 24 when I had to do clinicals. Too poor to own a car, should I have lugged around my passport? My brother was 6 foot 4 at and very mature looking at the age of 15, should he be required to carry around ID when he walked around Mall?



You can get a state ID card.  It looks exactly like a drivers license and yes, your 15 year old brother should carry one around.



bandaidwoman said:


> I agree, unfortunately the Canadians stealing lucrative jobs in New Hampshire, Minnesota etc. from americans are carry around legal drivers licenses and when they get pulled over no one asks for their passports or H!B visa or J1 visa *( which they don't have).  *They will never institute that law because too many milk and honey whites live in New Hampshire and they don't want to be targetted.  Loss of jobs probably doesn't mean as much as natural freedom.



You're full of shit.  As a Canadian immigrant I know for a fact that you CAN NOT get a legal drivers license without having a valid visa.  Most Canadians come down on TN visas.  Their license expires when their visa does.  Also these visas are only available for specific jobs where federal studies have shown there are not enough American workers to fill those jobs.



bandaidwoman said:


> Honestly, in 20 years when whites become minorities, think about it, more than half the us citizenship will have to carry around ID as if they are living in North Korea.  ( and not just drivers licenses).    When my husband and I go to china , they don't require him to carry his passport when we go sightseeing at the wall, or teracotta warriors etc.  Now, don't you think the chinese media already hasn't used this to state we have become more totalitarian than they?



Nobody is requiring you to carry a passport here either.  You talk about reading comprehension in an earlier post but even after explaining it over and over, you still make references to having to carry 'papers' or a passport everywhere.  You just don't get it


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## bandaidwoman (May 7, 2010)

ALBOB said:


> BULLSHIT!  You're being 100% ideological.  How on God's green Earth does this law have anything to do with the treatment you get at a hotel?  It doesn't and you Goddamn well know it.  But that's the kind of crap you have to throw out to try and support your IDEOLOGICAL position.



Like I said, once you have been on the recieving end of ethnocentrism numerous times, why not expediently avoid a "possible" fiasco that can run amok?  It's being proactive once again. 

LIke I said, this law in the larger context means that in america, freedom of movement within our own borders and activities  will continue to be constricted slowly for those that are ethnic looking in 1-2 states.  No big deal. we still have the other 48.


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## bandaidwoman (May 7, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> You can get a state ID card.  It looks exactly like a drivers license and yes, your 15 year old brother should carry one around.



Now honestly, at 15 would you be carrying around a ID card? I






> You're full of shit.  As a Canadian immigrant I know for a fact that you CAN NOT get a legal drivers license without having a valid visa.  Most Canadians come down on TN visas.  Their license expires when their visa does.  Also these visas are only available for specific jobs where federal studies have shown there are not enough American workers to fill those jobs.



UH, you have no idea how easy it is to get illegal drivers licenses in New hampshire  or anywhere for that matter.  I got one for my 19 year old brother so he cold party at Dartmouth's "animal house fraternity".




> Nobody is requiring you to carry a passport here either.  You talk about reading comprehension in an earlier post but even after explaining it over and over, you still make references to having to carry 'papers' or a passport everywhere.  You just don't get it



No you just don't get it, It is simple to any outsider.....  the law doesn't specifically target Mexicans, but we all know damn well who the illegal immigrant looking people are that will be targeted by this law. 

Next, as DOMs said we  need to do the same in Florida to stem the tide of illegal Haitians,and Hawaii and California to stem the tide of illegal chinese.  

 ""Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both". From one your greatest americans.  guess. This, unlike europe, , or Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore, Malta, Costa RIca, Argentina and other free countries looks very totalitarian to those citizens. Try to look at it from someone outside the country who has little knowledge of our ways as this makes it way through their media.


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## NeilPearson (May 7, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Man, you guys are assholes.  Just because she realizes there will be indirect damage done to AZ's economy, any intelligent person would realize this, and she has no intention of going back there she is race-baiting?  Let me ask you this, if you went in to a store that treated you like a 2nd class citizen would you go back and give them more of your money?
> 
> Let's assume that there is no direct racial profiling, which there will be at least some isolated cases.  Do you think a brown person who forgets their ID will be treated the same as a white one?  Like I said, I am fine with this law, it obviously needs to be done, but to attack someone just because their political ideology is different from yours is pretty fucked up and immature.  Plus, wasn't it you DOMS who said the reason you dislike certain races is because of your past with them?  I don't see how BAW's past has any less relevance to how she will handle this situation than you do yours, but because she is liberal her past experiences are obviously false and made up?



Indirect damage to AZ economy?  You have to be kidding?

Twice in the last 5 years I've been involved in car accidents that weren't my fault only to have the Mexican driver take off.  Why do they do this?  They don't have insurance or registration.  The last thing they needed was to deal with a car accident.

Our schools are overflowing with non English speaking kids from parents who have NEVER paid a single dollar into the tax system.

Illegals show up at hospitals here and are treated.  They don't have health insurance (and Obama's new law isn't going to change that - since they are illegal, they officially don't exist)  There already is free universal health care coverage in Arizona... provided you are illegal.

And this doesn't even cover the issue of crime...

Getting rid of these people and the constant financial drain they are on society will more than make up for income lost from pissed off minorities that threaten to not come mountain biking here anymore.


----------



## jmorrison (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Like I said, once you have been on the recieving end of ethnocentrism numerous times, why not expediently avoid a "possible" fiasco that can run amok?  It's being proactive once again.




For the love of everything good in the world, shut your flapper just long enough to use your brain.

No one is supporting racism.

No one is doubting that minorities get fucked with by inbred morons.

No one is doubting that you have suffered through a lot of bullshit because of your race.


Ok?

Now, try to keep up.

This has NOTHING to do with any of that.  Not.  One.  Bit.  

This law is about LEGAL vs. ILLEGAL immigration.  That's it.  No larger conspiracy against minorities.  

Not one person in Arizona (or anyone else) has been harrassed, bothered, detained or otherwise even inconvenienced by this law, yet you are already saying that you wont go back to avoid a "potential" issue.  You also say "needlessly detained".  Define needlessly for me.  If a police officer pulls someone over, who has no ID, no proof of insurance and doesn't know their social security number, by God they had BETTER be detained until they can prove who they are.  In todays realities of illegal immigration, terrorism and identity theft, this is not an unreasonable or even particularly bothersome ordeal.

You act as if anyone who is a minority and possibly lost their wallet will be pulled over and thrown in prison.  What planet are you from?  No.  They will be (rightfully) detained until their identity can be proven.  Which is EXACTLY what SHOULD happen.

As to your views on Mexican/US immigration laws.  I neither agree nor disagree, but it is neither here nor there regardless.  Yes, making it easier to immigrate legally would most definately cut down on the amount of mexican immigrants who come here illegally.  Especially the good honest people that we WANT in our country.  It will do nothing to prevent criminals from entering illegally.  In the meantime, should we not enforce OUR laws?

You are doing the internet equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "LA LA LA LA".


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## ALBOB (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Like I said, once you have been on the recieving end of ethnocentrism numerous times, why not expediently avoid a "possible" fiasco that can run amok?  It's being proactive once again.
> 
> LIke I said, this law in the larger context means that in america, freedom of movement within our own borders and activities  will continue to be constricted slowly for those that are ethnic looking in 1-2 states.  No big deal. we still have the other 48.



And AGAIN you show that you have no idea what you're talking about.  "In the larger context" this law has been on the books for YEARS.  How come you're just now bitching about it?


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## NeilPearson (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Thanks dale, I'm not being ideological, I just like good,expedient service and not being detained needlessly or denied lodging over and over again.



I can understand that but I think I missed the part of the law that said minorities would now get crappy service and denied lodging.

I am white.  If I went on a cruise, lost my ID and tried to get back on the boat, I would have just as hard of a time getting on.

DON'T LOSE YOUR ID.  It's not that fucking hard.


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## jmorrison (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Now honestly, at 15 would you be carrying around a ID card?.



If I was a larger than normal young man who was being targeted by rascist police officers?  Yes.  This is one of those potential 'proactive' situations you are so proud of avoiding.












bandaidwoman said:


> ""Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both". From one your greatest americans.



What in the hell are you getting at?  No one is giving up a little liberty!  That quote is directly aimed at American citizens giving up their rights to the government.  Not at ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS who have absolutely not one shred of rights in America!  In fact, allowing our government to make ignoring a law the norm is taking away our liberties!  It is a LAW.  It must be enforced!

Holy fucking shit, I am done with you.  This is like arguing with my kids.  You have absolutely not one shred of logical argument.  All you have is a repeated "I am a minority!  You don't know what it is like!".  Well sister, YOU are not an illegal immigrant, so YOU don't know what it is like.  Also YOU are not a tax payer living in Arizona, so YOU don't know what it is like.


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## NeilPearson (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Now honestly, at 15 would you be carrying around a ID card? .



Actually, I carried mine with me when I was 14 growing up in Canada.  By then I had my driving learners permit, my library card and my student ID.  They were all in my wallet and I carried it everywhere I went.

That's what responsible people do.




bandaidwoman said:


> UH, you have no idea how easy it is to get illegal drivers licenses in New hampshire  or anywhere for that matter.  I got one for my 19 year old brother so he cold party at Dartmouth's "animal house fraternity"..



Fine get an illegal one and bypass all the immigration laws.  Does this license check out when the cop goes back to his car and checks out the number?


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## bandaidwoman (May 7, 2010)

“He’s an... Illegal Eh-lien” | Willamette Week | February 20th, 2008

heres one for the canadians



> One could argue that Morgan’s reasons for coming to the United States are less understandable—perhaps even less admirable—than those of the immigrants who come to the United States illegally from south of the border. Morgan’s just a single guy with a GED who’s looking to clock his 40 hours a week, spend time with his friends and pursue his art.
> 
> He is no model immigrant. Nor is he a threat to our national identity, unless the occasional use of the word “eh” and maple syrup one day become as horrifying to the foot soldiers of the Minuteman Project as hola and arroz con pollo.
> 
> But whether lawmakers are talking about opposing work sites for Portland day laborers, requiring Social Security cards for Oregon drivers or building fences to curb the flow of illegal immigrants to the United States from Mexico, *Morgan’s presence in this country is both a confirmation of the failures of U.S.*



Let's get to the root of the problem, fine and jail employers of illegals, make the paperwork process streamlined and easier so many don't have to fly under the radar, no one is addressing that, it's easier to enact totalitarian laws ( that's pretty much how it looks to my family back home in Taiwan.)






> Actually, I carried mine with me when I was 14 growing up in Canada. By then I had my driving learners permit, my library card and my student ID.



so you are a goody two shoes.....and looking back it's probably better I chose Dartmouth over Mcgill ( though I loved the latter as well, it was a hard choice for my graduate work)


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## jmorrison (May 7, 2010)

Wait...what?  Why do you keep dropping names of schools?  Are you waiting on someone to be impressed?  No one gives a shit where you attended school.  It isn't even remotely relevent to this conversation.

I doubt your references anyway, not that my opinion matters.  You don't seem to have a grasp on logic, debate, or even grammar and punctuation.  I would expect someone that is fluent in 6 languages (lawl) to have a firmer hold on the written word.

Regardless, you argue like the typical young liberal.  You came in initially giving backhanded support to the law despite your obvious dislike of it (Good call DOMs).  You are refusing to acknowledge anyone's points but your own, which really have zero basis in reality, and are all built around hypothetical situations that COULD happen based on your experiences of being fucked with by rednecks in the private sector.  You don't answer any questions pointed your way, and just regurgitate the same answers.  Eventually falling back on the ol' race card when your points are summarily dismissed due to lack of substance!  But when all that fails, just drop arbitrary comments about your illustrious education!  I'm sure the folks at Dartmouth (lawl) are proud.

I can't stand poeple like you.


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## NeilPearson (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> “He’s an... Illegal Eh-lien” | Willamette Week | February 20th, 2008
> 
> heres one for the canadians
> 
> so you are a goody two shoes.....



He should be arrested too.  I don't know what this proves.  In Arizona he would have been arrested.  Like I said, last week I was pulled over for not putting my registration sticker on my license plate.  If I was this guy, I wouldn't have had a drivers license.  I would have been detained, jailed, fined and thrown out of the country.

When I travel back to Canada, it is a pain in the ass to get back in the country.  I don't just go through security and jump on the plane.  I get pulled out of the line at immigration and held for anywhere between a half hour and an hour answering questions and showing documentation including a passport and my visa and special travelling documents.  I have been denied access and had to get different documentation and change my flight.  I don't even bother visiting my family in Canada any more.  It's not worth the hassles and risk and I am here 100% legally.

I have been in the green card process for 7 years and I am still waiting while I have seen several non-white immigrants start work where I work and they are all processed already.

Legally getting in is a huge pain in the ass.... even if you are a white Canadian.  It sounds like you had a lot easier time.  I don't know what Portland is like but immigration in AZ is a pain in the ass for white people.  We don't get treated any differently than minorities.  In fact they probably have an easier time because the officers don't want to be labelled racist.

When my TN expires, I have to leave the country and re-enter and apply for entry at that time.  There is a form to fill out and I need to get a translator because in AZ, these forms are all in Spanish.  They never have an English version.  

Should I cry racism that there are no English forms and my application has taken 3 times as long as the minorities I've know that went through the same process?


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## Dale Mabry (May 7, 2010)

DOMS said:


> I've already addressed that.  The benefits will far outweigh any negatives.
> 
> *I agree with you, but that doesn't mean I'm going to skewer someone who decides not to go in to AZ because of this law.  Everybody on here avoids shit during their everyday life that will hassle them.  I purposefully avoid many people and establishments because of the hassle involved with it.*
> 
> ...



I believe you are overreacting, she said she is for profiling and thinks it is a viable policing technique.  Her choice to not go to AZ is because of the hassle, the same reason I won't go to Mexico, I don't want to get fucked with and robbed by their cops.  The same reason you won't find me wandering around Compton at any point in my life, I don't want to get strung up by some thug.  She's exercising her right to freedom of choice, and you guys are attacking her for it because her choice doesn't fit in to your personal beliefs.  You don;t like black people because of your history with them, I don't agree with it, but I certainly can understand it.  I definitely don't discount your opinions because I disagree with you on that particular belief.  I honestly don't see why anyone cares where she chooses to spend her time and money.


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## Dale Mabry (May 7, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> Of course not.  What does that have to do with anything?  No one in Arizona has done anything to her.  Nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> Bro, this is a nonsensical argument.  Of course there will be profiling.  Of course a "brown" person who forgets their ID will be treated differently.  Is there an issue with white canadians thronging into AZ?  No.  Political correctness should not override common sense.



You just answered your own question.  No one has done anything to her.  Correct.  You state immediately below it that there will be racial profiling in AZ.  Correct.  If she goes to CO, VT, MO, ME, or half a dozen other places to mountain bike, there will be no hassle, why would she choose to go to a place that, in the event she loses her ID, she will be hassled and possibly detained.  I fail to see how this is not an obvious answer.


----------



## NeilPearson (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Let's get to the root of the problem, fine and jail employers of illegals, )



If you read anything about the law, you would know that Arizona actually put that in the law.  It targets American employers that are hiring illegals just as much as it targets the illegals.



bandaidwoman said:


> make the paperwork process streamlined and easier so many don't have to fly under the radar, no one is addressing that, it's easier to enact totalitarian laws ( that's pretty much how it looks to my family back home in Taiwan.)



Why should Arizona make the paperwork process more streamlined?  I would like that because I would benefit from it but Arizona has grown too fast as it is.  I know lots of locals that would like to build a big wall around Arizona on all sides of the border and stop all the Californians from moving here too.

They can only let so many in.  It's not a basic human right to be able to come and live in Arizona.  If Arizona wants them to stay out, why should they let them in easier?

Maybe Mexicans should deal with their own government and its corruption and then Mexico wouldn't be such a shitty place to live and they could just stay there.



bandaidwoman said:


> so you are a goody two shoes.....and looking back it's probably better I chose Dartmouth over Mcgill ( though I loved the latter as well, it was a hard choice for my graduate work)



What is being a goody two shoes have to do with anything?  Are you saying this because I was responsible and carried my ID with me?  Is that a bad thing?


----------



## Dale Mabry (May 7, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> You're full of shit.  As a Canadian immigrant I know for a fact that you CAN NOT get a legal drivers license without having a valid visa.  Most Canadians come down on TN visas.  Their license expires when their visa does.  Also these visas are only available for specific jobs where federal studies have shown there are not enough American workers to fill those jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody is requiring you to carry a passport here either.  You talk about reading comprehension in an earlier post but even after explaining it over and over, you still make references to having to carry 'papers' or a passport everywhere.  You just don't get it



Your driver's license isn't proof of citizenship, neither is your social security card.  If they ask you for proof of citizenship, you have to provide a passport, birth certificate, or certificate of citizenship.  I was denied entry in to Canada because all I had was a driver's license, which was perfectly suitable pre-9/11, but now you need a passport or that new ID card they came out with.  How many people carry their birth certificate or passport with them on a daily basis?


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## NeilPearson (May 7, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> Wait...what?  Why do you keep dropping names of schools?  Are you waiting on someone to be impressed?  No one gives a shit where you attended school.  It isn't even remotely relevent to this conversation.



Every post she mentions where she went to school, how smart she is, how smart her partner is and how he has a great job, her 6 figure salary.  She is obviously trying to impress someone.

She also mentions how she likes to speed, that she loses her ID a lot, that she is too fucking lazy to get a new passport now that she lost hers.  And she calls me a goody two shoes because I make sure I have my ID and I actually try and obey laws.


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## ALBOB (May 7, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> I believe you are overreacting, she said she is for profiling and thinks it is a viable policing technique.  Her choice to not go to AZ is because of the hassle, the same reason I won't go to Mexico, I don't want to get fucked with and robbed by their cops.  The same reason you won't find me wandering around Compton at any point in my life, I don't want to get strung up by some thug.  She's exercising her right to freedom of choice, and you guys are attacking her for it because her choice doesn't fit in to your personal beliefs.  You don;t like black people because of your history with them, I don't agree with it, but I certainly can understand it.  I definitely don't discount your opinions because I disagree with you on that particular belief.  I honestly don't see why anyone cares where she chooses to spend her time and money.



You're absolutely correct that anyone can and SHOULD avoid those people and or places that they feel will hassle them.  I've got no heartburn with that at all.  But what she's doing is trying to say the the treatment she's received from private businesses in the past will all of a sudden translate into the same treatment she'll receive from Arizona police now that this law has been passed.  What we're doing is pointing out just how wrong she is and on how many levels she's wrong.  

For instance, she's given examples of doing illegal acts such as speeding without a license and she's tried to claim that because this new law is on the books she'll get hassled.  Gee, no shit, she's breaking TWO laws that have nothing to do with immigration status.  She's gonna get hassled.

Also, she's tried to say that suddenly, because this law was passed, she's more succeptable to racial profiling in Arizona.  For that reason she's going to avoid Arizona.  Really?  This EXACT law has been on the books at the federal level for years, why isn't she avoiding the entire country?

Her bullshit rants do not jive with facts.


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## NeilPearson (May 7, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Your driver's license isn't proof of citizenship, neither is your social security card.  If they ask you for proof of citizenship, you have to provide a passport, birth certificate, or certificate of citizenship.  I was denied entry in to Canada because all I had was a driver's license, which was perfectly suitable pre-9/11, but now you need a passport or that new ID card they came out with.  How many people carry their birth certificate or passport with them on a daily basis?



It's not proof of citizenship when entering a country.  Canada won't accept a US drivers license as proof and the US will not accept a Canadian license as proof

However, for this law, if you are stopped in AZ, an American drivers license verified by a computer look up in the cop car is proof enough that you will not be detained.  The law isn't saying to harass people and make them prove citizenship as if they were entering the country.  Nobody is asking them to carry anything other than a drivers license.


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## jmorrison (May 7, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> You just answered your own question.  No one has done anything to her.  Correct.  You state immediately below it that there will be racial profiling in AZ.  Correct.  If she goes to CO, VT, MO, ME, or half a dozen other places to mountain bike, there will be no hassle, why would she choose to go to a place that, in the event she loses her ID, she will be hassled and possibly detained.  I fail to see how this is not an obvious answer.



I am not arguing with her choice to go back to AZ or not.  I couldn't care less.  I DO care about the reasons though for the same reason that anyone on an internet forum argues about anything.  She is wrong.  She has entitlement issues.  She is pulling the race card.  She is demonizing the enforcement of our laws.  She is being deliberately obtuse.  She is name dropping her educational background.  In short, she is full of shit.

If you are full of shit, you shouldn't post your opinions and not expect them to be destroyed.

I would like one of you, just one of you to answer 3 simple questions:

1. This was already a law.  Why does it bother you now?

2. Does our government, by ignoring a law and subjectively choosing not to enforce it, give preferential treatment to the criminals perpetrating the crime?

3. Does our government have an obligation to it's people to enforce the laws of the land?

4. If a mugging occurs and the victim states that her attacker is a black male in his twenties, should police arrest white women or asian men as suspects? Or even stop them on the street to check their credentials?  Should the police, after pulling over a black man in his twenties for speeding, who fits the description given, and is not able to produce an ID or even know his social security number, detain him until his identity can be established?


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## jmorrison (May 7, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Your driver's license isn't proof of citizenship, neither is your social security card.  If they ask you for proof of citizenship, you have to provide a passport, birth certificate, or certificate of citizenship.  I was denied entry in to Canada because all I had was a driver's license, which was perfectly suitable pre-9/11, but now you need a passport or that new ID card they came out with.  How many people carry their birth certificate or passport with them on a daily basis?



And police won't be looking for proof of citizenship.  Here we go again.  Just bullshit hypotheticals.  A police officer will ask for Drivers license, proof of insurance and registration.  Just like for everyone else.  Then they will run the license to ensure no warrants or other funky activity is taking place, then they will allow them on their happy ways.  The only reason social security numbers even got brought into this was because she had stated that she loses her ID a lot.  In that case, you could give the cop your social and he could run it if he wanted to.

Of course, having read the thread, you know this already, but what kind of argument would it be without a strawman scenario right?  Lets just ramp up the bullshit hypothetical situations to make it sound as badly as possible!


----------



## Dale Mabry (May 7, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> I am not arguing with her choice to go back to AZ or not.  I couldn't care less.  I DO care about the reasons though for the same reason that anyone on an internet forum argues about anything.  She is wrong.  She has entitlement issues.  She is pulling the race card.  She is demonizing the enforcement of our laws.  She is being deliberately obtuse.  She is name dropping her educational background.  In short, she is full of shit.
> 
> *She is doing none of the above, save for the name dropping, but you guys are saying everything she is saying is made up, what response do you expect?  If you don't care about her choice, why would you give a shit about her reasons?*
> 
> ...



Like I said, nothing will probably come of this law, something may.  I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to find out if I were brown, I'd let someone else find out first.


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## jmorrison (May 7, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> It's not proof of citizenship when entering a country.  Canada won't accept a US drivers license as proof and the US will not accept a Canadian license as proof
> 
> However, for this law, if you are stopped in AZ, an American drivers license verified by a computer look up in the cop car is proof enough that you will not be detained.  The law isn't saying to harass people and make them prove citizenship as if they were entering the country.  Nobody is asking them to carry anything other than a drivers license.



He knows this.  That was just a strawman argument.  The typical way to argue from a standpoint that has no basis in reality.  If real life situations don't back up your points, just make up absurd points and hold them up!


----------



## Dale Mabry (May 7, 2010)

I just read the wording of the law, it states ..."immigration status of the person".  Is a driver's license a valid way of determining immigration status?


----------



## Dale Mabry (May 7, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> He knows this.  That was just a strawman argument.  The typical way to argue from a standpoint that has no basis in reality.  If real life situations don't back up your points, just make up absurd points and hold them up!




Attack, attack, attack, it shows your true character.  Defend the party at all costs.  BTW, how many real life experiences have you had getting pulled over and being asked for proof of immigration status?


----------



## Dale Mabry (May 7, 2010)

BTW, I am completely for this law, unfortunately I have enough common sense and no party loyalty to blind me from the fact that this is going to lead to certain people (browns) being treated differently.  Not being brown you could give a shit, but if you were, you would be leading the brigade to repeal this law.


----------



## jmorrison (May 7, 2010)

If you can understand what I am about to say you are honestly not worth the time to argue with.  You don't seem to have a learning disability, so please try to understand.  Not agree, just understand.

1.  She can say whatever she likes, she is not in favor of profiling.  "needlessly detained", "harrassed", "racial bias".  These are all things that she has brought up.  She is even saying that she will not go to AZ to avoid profiling, and has put up repeated arguments against it.  Read past her first post.

2. She most certainly IS demonizing enforcing our laws.  She even went the righteous route and quoted Jefferson (I think, I didn't bother to look it up) to make her point.

3.  She certainly IS playing the race card.  See point #1.

4.  No one has said that she is "making everything up".  Strawman strawman strawman.  After showing her complete lack of logical skill and piss poor grammar and spelling I personally called her out.  I think I am the only one.  And that was more because I am irritated with her than for any real reason.

5.  You stated it yourself.  The government has a duty to enforce it's laws.  It was not enforcing our immigration laws, and even went so far as for the current administration to lambaste AZ for enforcing it in their stead!  

The reason I care enough to argue with her is apparently the same reason you choose to defend her.  Except I disagree with her, and you just disagree with...what exactly?  I couldn't give a rolling shit whether she ever steps into AZ again.  I do however care enough about what goes on the IM forums to call out a blowhard.


----------



## Dale Mabry (May 7, 2010)

Finally, since I have to do some actual work, doesn't it strike any of you as odd that this law, according to all of you, merely states that when an AZ cop pulls you over they have the legal obligation to ask you for your driver's license, registration, and proof of insurance?  I kinda thought that happened anyway.  Apparently, police in AZ have been pulling Mexicans over, not asking for any of the above, and letting them drive off so they just had to make it legal by putting it on the books.  Give me a break.


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## jmorrison (May 7, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Attack, attack, attack, it shows your true character.  Defend the party at all costs.  BTW, how many real life experiences have you had getting pulled over and being asked for proof of immigration status?




See?  This just proves that you are full of shit.  Defend WHAT party?  I am not even a republican.  I support gay marriage for Gods sake.  

I defend my COUNTRY at all costs.  THAT shows my true character.

I have never been pulled over and asked for proof of immigration status.  However I have had my vehicle searched for drugs when I was a teenager, my car searched for bombs while parking near military buildings after 9/11, a loan turned down because of my age, and my insurance raised because of my sex.

All of which are completely reasonable.


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## jmorrison (May 7, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> BTW, I am completely for this law, unfortunately I have enough common sense and no party loyalty to blind me from the fact that this is going to lead to certain people (browns) being treated differently.  Not being brown you could give a shit, but if you were, you would be leading the brigade to repeal this law.




Treated differently HOW!?  It was already a law!

You have a real problem with assumptions don't you?  I am not affiliated with any party, and what makes you think I would leading any sort of movement to repeal this law?  THIS IS NOT ABOUT RACE IT IS ABOUT CITIZENSHIP.


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## NeilPearson (May 7, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> I just read the wording of the law, it states ..."immigration status of the person".  Is a driver's license a valid way of determining immigration status?



Since you can not get a driver's license without valid status, it is good enough for routine checks.  It would be enough that you would avoid furthur suspicion and you wouldn't be detained.

It's pretty obvious who is illegal and who isn't.  The police aren't going to just run around picking on latin looking people.

Now if they see someone driving around in a beat up peice of shit with flowery looking decals, 2 inches clearance, windows down in 110 degree weather because of no air conditioning, they are blaring some kind of music that sounds like a polka and there is no visible registration on that vehicle... they will likely be profiled and pulled over due to no registration.  By the way, my example profiled them but you will notice, it didn't mention race.  This person is more than likely an illegal immigrant.


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## jmorrison (May 7, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Finally, since I have to do some actual work, doesn't it strike any of you as odd that this law, according to all of you, merely states that when an AZ cop pulls you over they have the legal obligation to ask you for your driver's license, registration, and proof of insurance?  I kinda thought that happened anyway.  Apparently, police in AZ have been pulling Mexicans over, not asking for any of the above, and letting them drive off so they just had to make it legal by putting it on the books.  Give me a break.




And there it goes.  Your final break with reality.  Do you actually believe the shit coming out of your mouth?

The law gives the state the authority to arrest, detain, deport/imprison illegal immigrants as criminals.  Which was already a federal law.  Which was being ignored.  What part of this is hard for you to understand?  Where is your common sense that you are so proud of?


----------



## Dale Mabry (May 7, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> If you can understand what I am about to say you are honestly not worth the time to argue with.  You don't seem to have a learning disability, so please try to understand.  Not agree, just understand.
> 
> 1.  She can say whatever she likes, she is not in favor of profiling.  "needlessly detained", "harrassed", "racial bias".  These are all things that she has brought up.  She is even saying that she will not go to AZ to avoid profiling, and has put up repeated arguments against it.  Read past her first post.
> 
> ...



You, DOMS and Albob have all personally attacked her, that is the only thing I disagree with.  Re-read the posts in this thread, you all attack her personally because you have differing opinions.  Disagree with that notion all you like, you wouldn't be calling bullshit on her if she were ideologically in line with you.  There are at least a dozen people on here who are full of shit, but I guess you don't care enough about what goes on at IM to call them out.


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## NeilPearson (May 7, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Finally, since I have to do some actual work, doesn't it strike any of you as odd that this law, according to all of you, merely states that when an AZ cop pulls you over they have the legal obligation to ask you for your driver's license, registration, and proof of insurance?  I kinda thought that happened anyway.  Apparently, police in AZ have been pulling Mexicans over, not asking for any of the above, and letting them drive off so they just had to make it legal by putting it on the books.  Give me a break.



Before this, they would ask for that stuff and if they didn't have it, they could get fined, arrested, even jailed but they woudln't necessarily get deported for it and although they could get in trouble for the other things, they wouldn't get in trouble for being here illegally.

Now they can be arrested and being illegal is just another charge they could add to the list... 

More importantly, the law says that employers hiring legal immigrants can be charged as well as the illegal immigrant.


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## jmorrison (May 7, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> You, DOMS and Albob have all personally attacked her, that is the only thing I disagree with.  Re-read the posts in this thread, you all attack her personally because you have differing opinions.  Disagree with that notion all you like, you wouldn't be calling bullshit on her if she were ideologically in line with you.  There are at least a dozen people on here who are full of shit, but I guess you don't care enough about what goes on at IM to call them out.




I do it all the time.  DOMs and I have had some great arguments.  I don't think he is a moron though.  His points are well thought out and he actually listens to what you have to say instead of just regurgitating horseshit.  Yeah I did personally attack her.  I don't care much for people that won't listen or refuse to even acknowledge valid points.  Fuck her.

There are wonderful debates on here everyday.  The point is "debate".  Which involves an exchange of information.  And intelligent, rational points.  If she did't want her stupidity to become a topic of discussion, she should have 'proactively avoided' showing it off to everyone like a new puppy.


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## DOMS (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Would any of you honestly give  a social security number to a cruise ship dumb ass personell just to get back on a ship?  Can they run the numbers through their data bases that they keep on hand at the pier in Jamaica?  They can now, but not in 1991.
> It's common sense.



Common sense?  You don't have it.

You may not be aware of this, but a 21 kid checking your boarding pass has a few less resources than a police officer.

So, you were almost denied reboarding a ship, tough, shit happens.   That relates in no way to any dealing you're going to have with a police officer regarding your legal right to be here.


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## DOMS (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> By the way, the university of Arizona has had a huge dip in student enrollment since this was issued.



Big dip? In a couple of weeks?  

So. Full. Of. Shit.


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## DOMS (May 7, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> If I was a larger than normal young man who was being targeted by rascist police officers?  Yes.  This is one of those potential 'proactive' situations you are so proud of avoiding.



I'm as white as the next guy, but I had one at 15.   Before that, I carried around my school ID.   There are plenty of legitimate uses for an ID in the early teens.  



jmorrison said:


> Well sister, YOU are not an illegal immigrant, so YOU don't know what it is like.  Also YOU are not a tax payer living in Arizona, so YOU don't know what it is like.



I really wonder how many of the fuckwits that are against this law actually live in a place with a lot of illegals?


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## DOMS (May 7, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> Whyy should Arizona make the paperwork process more streamlined?



It's that always it, someone from another country trying to tell Americans that they need to "fix" the immigration "problem" by making easier to get in. And the one that has to point out how this is wrong is, once again, a Canadian.

Good God.


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## NeilPearson (May 7, 2010)

DOMS said:


> I'm as white as the next guy, but I had one at 15.   Before that, I carried around my school ID.   There are plenty of legitimate uses for an ID in the early teens.
> 
> 
> 
> I really wonder how many of the fuckwits that are against this law actually live in a place with a lot of illegals?



I live in AZ and it's tough finding people against it


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## bandaidwoman (May 7, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Big dip? In a couple of weeks?
> 
> So. Full. Of. Shit.



Students Withdraw From Arizona Universities In Reaction To Immigration Law



> 1,2021,719
> views903 Get Breaking News Alerts
> Share Comments 903 In a letter to the school, University of Arizona President Robert Shelton said the college is feeling the effects of the state's new immigration law -- by losing students.
> 
> ...




perhaps you dont realize this is prime time ( may) for withdrawing acceptances at universities or accepting them. And yes, it happens within a span of weeks...duh..


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## bandaidwoman (May 7, 2010)

DOMS said:


> Common sense?  You don't have it.
> 
> You may not be aware of this, but a 21 kid checking your boarding pass has a few less resources than a police officer.
> 
> So, you were almost denied reboarding a ship, tough, shit happens.   That relates in no way to any dealing you're going to have with a police officer regarding your legal right to be here.



you asked why i didn't give my social security number to board the cruise ship after losing my cruise pass on the beach.  They did not accept my drivers license.  It was not going to fly even if I had a social security number I  almost got stranded in Jamaica, no passport, nothing, just a drivers license. Heck, what about identiy fraud But I was not angry, since I said it was a great scam for an illegals.  But yes, my clemson football player boyfriend with green eyes and light brown hair didn't even have to show his cruise pass but my brown almost black skin from heavy sunshine put the brakes real quick. * I just know what it is like to be profiled , and shit happens, and shit can easily happen in Arizona*


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## jmorrison (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> , my *clemson* football player boyfriend



lmfao

Seriously?


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## bandaidwoman (May 7, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> lmfao
> 
> Seriously?



he actually wasn't that good of a player ( always on the bench) but boy was he gorgeous, mmm-mmm- mmm. Ironically he became a dentist and was one of the last graduates from Emory Dental school ( I wrote his essay).  He was one of those good ole southern boys who liked his womenz dark.....


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## jmorrison (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> graduates from *Emory Dental school *( I wrote his essay)



If this isn't intentional it is truly amazing and hilarious.  Thank you.


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## bandaidwoman (May 7, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> If this isn't intentional it is truly amazing and hilarious.  Thank you.



how is this for funny, my husband is a member on this forum.  Mostly hangs out in the training section.  He pretty much stays clear of this section because he doesn't want you guys throwing crap at him.

He is a nice healthy NRA gun toting, ex-Airborne, Libertarian good ole southern boy from Between, Georgia.  Bet you can't find that on the map.


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## jmorrison (May 7, 2010)

But what school did he attend?


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## bandaidwoman (May 7, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> But what school did he attend?




one of those smart high school grads who went straight into the army.  Served 8 years in the 82nd airborne,  became sargent, I think.  Became a controls engineer ( could run circles around those with actual EE degrees), started racing mountain bikes. Met him pre-riding for a race towards the end of my residency.  He was the only fast non skinny guy ( he was big time into body building). Besides being gorgeous and great in bed, was the only guy who could beat me in chess. 

Now he races and body builds and takes care of my daughter samantha full time. Sometimes does some consulting.

He is my gunner on the team  for  the 24 hour race I sponser every year.  

I only went to fancy schools because they were the only ones rich enough to fund my full tuition. ( I have a twin sister and my family was broke) state schools don't have as much money.  Luckily, in my field, it was also an asset in many ways.


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## NeilPearson (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> one of those smart high school grads who went straight into the army.  Served 8 years in the 82nd airborne,  became sargent, I think.  Became a controls engineer ( could run circles around those with actual EE degrees), started racing mountain bikes. Met him pre-riding for a race towards the end of my residency.  He was the only fast non skinny guy ( he was big time into body building). Besides being gorgeous and great in bed, was the only guy who could beat me in chess.
> 
> Now he races and body builds and takes care of my daughter samantha full time. Sometimes does some consulting.
> 
> ...



I wanted to go to medical school but I couldn't afford it.  I had the second highest GPA of anyone in my graduating class of 350 people.  I tried to get grants but being white, I couldn't get anything.  Every grant I found was reserved for a minority


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## Dale Mabry (May 7, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> And there it goes.  Your final break with reality.  Do you actually believe the shit coming out of your mouth?
> 
> The law gives the state the authority to arrest, detain, deport/imprison illegal immigrants as criminals.  Which was already a federal law.  Which was being ignored.  What part of this is hard for you to understand?  Where is your common sense that you are so proud of?



Ok, you and I are obviously going to disagree on this, I just find it hard to believe that a month ago AZ police were pulling illegals over who had no identification, no license, no insurance, no registration, and just letting them go on their way, and filling out the citation with whatever name they gave them (Probably Jose).  Call me crazy, but I doubt that was the case.


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## DOMS (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> Students Withdraw From Arizona Universities In Reaction To Immigration Law



A handful of people is hardly a "huge dip", but if makes you feel better, you can believe so.


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## DOMS (May 7, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> Ok, you and I are obviously going to disagree on this, I just find it hard to believe that a month ago AZ police were pulling illegals over who had no identification, no license, no insurance, no registration, and just letting them go on their way, and filling out the citation with whatever name they gave them (Probably Jose).  Call me crazy, but I doubt that was the case.



That was *exactly* the case.  The state couldn't do squat, but with this new law allows them to do something about it.  

Where state do you live in?


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## Dale Mabry (May 7, 2010)

New Jersey, but most of the Mexican folks around here are pretty nice.  I attribute it to the colder weather and the desire to get further away from Mexico.

If that truly was the case and they couldn't do shit, that's fucked up.  I honestly don't see how it could be, the car could be stolen and not reported yet, etc.  But, the only border I have lived next to is the Canadian, and they just came down to load up on cheap cigarettes.


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## DOMS (May 7, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> New Jersey, but most of the Mexican folks around here are pretty nice.  I attribute it to the colder weather and the desire to get further away from Mexico.
> 
> If that truly was the case and they couldn't do shit, that's fucked up.  I honestly don't see how it could be, the car could be stolen and not reported yet, etc.  But, the only border I have lived next to is the Canadian, and they just came down to load up on cheap cigarettes.



It was fucked up, but not now that the law is passed.  Before this, you could only get them for other offences, because...ya know...protecting your borders is racist.


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## DOMS (May 7, 2010)

Interesting illegal Mexican fact: 12 Americans are killed by illegals every day, plus 13 killed by drunk Mexican drivers.

Bonus fact: "eight American children are victims of sexual abuse by illegal aliens every day – a total of 2,920 annually."


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## jmorrison (May 7, 2010)

Dale Mabry said:


> If that truly was the case and they couldn't do shit, that's fucked up.  I honestly don't see how it could be, the car could be stolen and not reported yet, etc.



I think that is the primary drive behind our disagreement.  As fucked up as it was, the state could not arrest illegals as criminals, or process them into our legal system as such.  Only the federal government had this power, and it was not using it, only deporting them, with them coming right back at the cost of AZ taxpayers money.

Now the AZ courts can use their authority to treat illegal immigration as a crime (hence the word illegal) and punish repeat offenders if they see fit.

That's seriously the gist of the new law.  It is almost a mirror copy of the federal version of the law.

The only reason this turned into such a huge debate is because a number of uninformed protesters turned this into a racial conflict, which of course atuomatically causes everyone to go up in flames.  In my experience there are 2 situations in which humans lose all sense of reason and intellect.  When children are threatened and during racial tension.

This has nothing to do with race at all.  The kinds of people that are going through the legal channels and immigrating here legally are exactly the kind of people we want here.  They are pursuing a better life, and have sacrificed a lot to get here.  It is the illegals and the criminal dross that this is designed to curb.


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## bandaidwoman (May 7, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> I wanted to go to medical school but I couldn't afford it.  I had the second highest GPA of anyone in my graduating class of 350 people.  I tried to get grants but being white, I couldn't get anything.  Every grant I found was reserved for a minority




If you work in a rural,underserved  community after medical school, they pay 100% of your medical tuition. I believe the military also.  Many of my collegues ( both minority and whites ) went that route.  Don't know if canada has the same program, it is funded by the government. I would think they would have something similar no?

They put us asians  below  whites in terms of admissions and grants in medical school, since  we are disproportionatly over represented in medical school . Especially those of us who were recently foreign nationals. I had to apply to 38 medical schools, only one helped me financially even though I got into 25. Dartmouth had a neat program where we recieved a generous salary for tutoring the undergrads in subjects like calculus and organic chemistry, which really helped me financially.  I only owed 100 grand , without it, would have owed 200 grand ( tuition and living combined was like 50,ooo). It was still cheaper than borrowing to go to a New York state school, tuition was only 18 grand in the late 80s and early 90s but with the high cost of living and high loan interest rate ( close to 10%) I would have owed more going to a state school.  Dartmouth lent me the money with less than 3% interest rate. So I know where you are coming from.  Women no longer are minority status since 1992, in fact we are now the majority, which is good.

It's never too late, one of the best er docs here went back at 41.  Still paying off his loans in his sixties but is very happy.So you should not give up.


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## sassy69 (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> When I get a tan, due to my half asian status people sometimes assume I am latino and start speaking to me in spanish.  I used to go to arizona all the time to mountain bike, I may not just because I don't want to deal with the hassle of proving my citizenship ( that and I don't know where I put my  passport) when I'm in my dark, exotic looking summer state.
> 
> Unfortunatly, the illegal Haitians, black africans, Chinese ( like my daughter's chinese teacher)  and the numerous Canandians won't feel the impact of this law.   ( as for my daughter's chinese teacher the dumbass private school human resources forgot to renew her H1B visa two  months ago so technically she is a illegal.)
> 
> ...



I'm sort of laughing hwo much fun you must have w/ the accents in Atlanta... (altho many will laugh at my accent .. think "Fargo"....)


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## bandaidwoman (May 7, 2010)

sassy69 said:


> I'm sort of laughing hwo much fun you must have w/ the accents in Atlanta... (altho many will laugh at my accent .. think "Fargo"....)



I have more fun when I bring my husband to new york where my parents still live.  The gals love his heavy,relaxed southern drawl, or maybe its his body, who knows.  Yeah, the minnesota , north dakota accent always threw me, but the worst was the boston accent, I almost couldn't understand them.

Most of the comments I get in atlanta is "I know your something, I just don't know what it is..."  I've been persian, asian, latino, half ethopian black ( apparently they somewhat different facial characteristics) depending on their taste or distaste....
I should not have kept my maiden name, my first name is Christy and my married would have been Johnson, Christy Johnson, how white bread would that make me...


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## NeilPearson (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> If you work in a rural,underserved  community after medical school, they pay 100% of your medical tuition. I believe the military also.  Many of my collegues ( both minority and whites ) went that route.  Don't know if canada has the same program, it is funded by the government. I would think they would have something similar no?
> 
> They put us asians  below  whites in terms of admissions and grants in medical school, since  we are disproportionatly over represented in medical school . Especially those of us who were recently foreign nationals. I had to apply to 38 medical schools, only one helped me financially even though I got into 25. Dartmouth had a neat program where we recieved a generous salary for tutoring the undergrads in subjects like calculus and organic chemistry, which really helped me financially.  I only owed 100 grand , without it, would have owed 200 grand ( tuition and living combined was like 50,ooo). It was still cheaper than borrowing to go to a New York state school, tuition was only 18 grand in the late 80s and early 90s but with the high cost of living and high loan interest rate ( close to 10%) I would have owed more going to a state school.  Dartmouth lent me the money with less than 3% interest rate. So I know where you are coming from.  Women no longer are minority status since 1992, in fact we are now the majority, which is good.
> 
> It's never too late, one of the best er docs here went back at 41.  Still paying off his loans in his sixties but is very happy.So you should not give up.



I didn't find a way to do it back in Canada when I got out of high school.  I might have just not had the resources to do it.

It is too late for me though.  I am making my six figure income doing computer programming consulting.  To switch gears now would mean going back to school, student loans, giving up my 2600 sq foot house, actually having to work hard which I try not to do now.  It just doesn't make a lot of sense.  My lifestyle couldn't take the hit


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## NeilPearson (May 7, 2010)

sassy69 said:


> I'm sort of laughing hwo much fun you must have w/ the accents in Atlanta... (altho many will laugh at my accent .. think "Fargo"....)



Even Canadians laugh at Fargo


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## bandaidwoman (May 7, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> I didn't find a way to do it back in Canada when I got out of high school.  I might have just not had the resources to do it.
> 
> It is too late for me though.  I am making my six figure income doing computer programming consulting.  To switch gears now would mean going back to school, student loans, giving up my 2600 sq foot house, actually having to work hard which I try not to do now.  It just doesn't make a lot of sense.  My lifestyle couldn't take the hit



I forgot, you guys go straight out of high school.  At that age  I only knew I wanted to be a lab jockey chemist.  Lots of fun on the research end but boooring in the private sector. The pharmaceutical company paid me a lot of money as a chemist but I don't like answering to corporate idiots.   Luckily I accidently did all my premed requirements and being a perfectionist made sure I graduated with a near perfect GPA so I was able to transition easily to applying to med school. I felt sorry for the liberal arts or engineering or business majors that changed their mind and had to  redo all the premed crap.


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## NeilPearson (May 7, 2010)

bandaidwoman said:


> I forgot, you guys go straight out of high school.  At that age  I only knew I wanted to be a lab jockey chemist.  Lots of fun on the research end but boooring in the private sector. The pharmaceutical company paid me a lot of money as a chemist but I don't like answering to corporate idiots.   Luckily I accidently did all my premed requirements and being a perfectionist made sure I graduated with a near perfect GPA so I was able to transition easily to applying to med school. I felt sorry for the liberal arts or engineering or business majors that changed their mind and had to  redo all the premed crap.




I think that was the problem... straight out of high school.  I didn't yet have the skills needed to guide my life and find the opportunities that were available.  I probably just expected everything to fall into my lap since it had all my life.  Everything was easy in high school.  I never had to seek out opportunities, they always sought me out.  I was the smart kid.  Teachers would come to me and suggest 'gifted' programs and give me awards and stuff.  I never had to apply or ask for anything.  That trend stopped when I graduated from high school.

My parents wanted me to do what I wanted to do without influencing me and I didn't really have direction.  They weren't offering to help so I just kind of went with the flow.  It worked out fine... good enough that I'm not going to change it now but if I had the chance to go back and make different desicions, I might.  I am way too comfortable in my life now to put myself through that kind of change now though.


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## Dark Geared God (May 7, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> I think that is the primary drive behind our disagreement. As fucked up as it was, the state could not arrest illegals as criminals, or process them into our legal system as such. Only the federal government had this power, and it was not using it, only deporting them, with them coming right back at the cost of AZ taxpayers money.
> 
> Now the AZ courts can use their authority to treat illegal immigration as a crime (hence the word illegal) and punish repeat offenders if they see fit.
> 
> ...


 A key word does not matter what someone was doing ..( illegals )
right or wrong the word is still the same.we can't be a nation that doesn't enforce laws just because we think they shouldn't ..


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