# Should it be ok for gays to adopt children?..



## ExLe (Sep 29, 2011)

They wonder why people are against it...

The California boy, 11, who is undergoing hormone blocking treatment | Mail Online

How is what they are doing even legal?...


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## meow (Sep 29, 2011)

Is it okay for a child to be birthed out of a penis? Btw, that article is just SAD.


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## theCaptn' (Sep 29, 2011)

Sounds five shades of fucked up to me


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## IronAddict (Sep 29, 2011)

I think so...

Besides, there's a lot of kids in this country with no parents at all. And all these actors adopting kids from abroad, shame on you. As long as they're loved and encouraged.

There I go getting all serious again, there I go...there I go...


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## murf23 (Sep 29, 2011)

No


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## rippedunit (Sep 29, 2011)

yes. at least the child will be loved unlike some people that have kids.


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## MDR (Sep 29, 2011)

Yes, of course.


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## crazyotter (Sep 29, 2011)

Yes. Being gay doesn't make you a bad person.


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## LAM (Sep 29, 2011)

rippedunit said:


> yes. at least the child will be loved unlike some people that have kids.



ditto...I see a vast difference in the way children of my friends that planned having kids and the ones that didn't plan out the family are raised and treated...unfortunately something peoples "best" effort just isn't good enough in this day and age times are not so simple anymore.


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## BillHicksFan (Sep 29, 2011)

Gay couples should have equal rights and it's only a matter of time until they do. 
The fact that this is still a debatable topic displays how intolerant, narrow minded and primative many people choose to be.


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## bandaidwoman (Sep 29, 2011)

A collegue at Columbia Presbytarian showed me how a famous dead singer's mom gave him shots as a teenager so his voice would remain in the soprano range, I won't go further since I don't know if HIPAA applies when they die. So it's not just gay parents.  


Demographics wise,  the gay couples adopting are in a socioeconomic class that  can support and educate and provide love for these unwanted children. When I'm moonlighting in the emergency room  I report too many kids to DFACS when I see the boyfriend of their drug addicted moms nearly killing them, or malnourished since their parents would rather buy drugs than food etc. So many heterosexual parents are patheticand  take their kids for granted. 

Any parent, whether gay or heterosexual, who goes through the rigours and expense of adoption, for the most part , really wants to take care of these kids and they are some mighty  special folks.


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## DOMS (Sep 29, 2011)

Those bitches need to go to jail.

That's a kid. Not a fucking science experiment or a toy.


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## Zaphod (Sep 29, 2011)

Two messed up lesbians don't paint a whole demographic.  The two in the article need to go to jail for doing that.  

That being said there is no reason why gays and lesbians should not be able to adopt.


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## crazyotter (Sep 29, 2011)

BillHicksFan said:


> Gay couples should have equal rights and it's only a matter of time until they do.
> The fact that this is still a debatable topic displays how intolerant, narrow minded and primative many people choose to be.



agree 100%


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## KelJu (Sep 29, 2011)

Wait a minute, one story about two retarded lesbians abusing a child, and you guys are all ready to infer this onto the entire gay community? 

Are ya'll fucking stupid or something? Gay parents are better than no parents in 99% of circumstances. Take a few minutes to look at the horrible track record that straight foster families have. Jesus fucking christ, it seems that every abusive sexually deviant fuck in the US goes to adopt.


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## dogsoldier (Sep 29, 2011)

I know some gay couples that my answer would be an unequivocal yes.  Then there are others that shouldn't adopt a gold fish. Same goes for straight people also.

What those dykes are doing is child abuse.  Let's see, we will adopt a boy, brain wash him his entire young life, put him on drugs to keep him out of male puberty so we can have a girl lesbian.  That is simply some fucked up shit and those bitches need to be put away for child abuse.


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## BillHicksFan (Sep 29, 2011)

dogsoldier said:


> I know some gay couples that my answer would be an unequivocal yes.  Then there are others that shouldn't adopt a gold fish. Same goes for straight people also.
> 
> What those dykes are doing is child abuse.  Let's see, we will adopt a boy, brain wash him his entire young life, put him on drugs to keep him out of male puberty so we can have a girl lesbian.  That is simply some fucked up shit and those bitches need to be put away for child abuse.



I don't like to generalize but I've noticed that many lesbian women hate men with a passion. Sometimes it makes me wonder whether they are actually attracted to women or simply repelled by men due to the resentment that they harbour.


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## maniclion (Sep 29, 2011)

My gf's bro and his husband adopted a local boy just about a month ago, they own their home and both make good money as one of them owns his business.  They are not your feminine gay types they are normal men who love sports, camping, outdoor activity, both are handy with power tools, etc...  They plan on this boy playing football, basketball and other sports.  He is much better off now than living in a tent by the beach not going to school as he was with his druggie mom and dad....seeing his mom have sex with strangers for money.


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## troubador (Sep 29, 2011)

It doesn't matter to me. They're not my kids and they're just moving from one fucked up place to another. In this case the kid needs psychiatric help not hormones.


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## KelJu (Sep 29, 2011)

maniclion said:


> My gf's bro and his husband adopted a local boy just about a month ago, they own their home and both make good money as one of them owns his business.  They are not your feminine gay types they are normal men who love sports, camping, outdoor activity, both are handy with power tools, etc...  They plan on this boy playing football, basketball and other sports.  He is much better off now than living in a tent by the beach not going to school as he was with his druggie mom and dad....seeing his mom have sex with strangers for money.



I will say this, if your parents are two gay dudes, walking in on your parents fucking would be in a whole different dimension of fucking weird.


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## DOMS (Sep 30, 2011)

BillHicksFan said:


> I don't like to generalize but I've noticed that many lesbian women hate men with a passion. Sometimes it makes me wonder whether they are actually attracted to women or simply repelled by men due to the resentment that they harbour.



Growing up, I can't count the number of chicks that "found out" they were gay after a guy dumped them or a long period of no guys dating them.

I also find it hilarious that the man-hating lesbians usually try their hardest to look and act like men.


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## Thee_One (Sep 30, 2011)

I think it's terrible that this happened, but it's not a reflection on their sexual orientation, so much as simply they are fucked up.

I think a child would be much better off with 2 gay parents than no parents.

I think they should probably educate their child about sexual orientation early on, though, so that the child doesn't grow up thinking it's "normal" to be attracted to the same sex.
Not because it's not "right", but just so they aren't confused more than they need to be.


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## LAM (Sep 30, 2011)

DOMS said:


> Growing up, I can't count the number of chicks that "found out" they were gay after a guy dumped them or a long period of no guys dating them.
> 
> I also find it hilarious that the man-hating lesbians usually try their hardest to look and act like men.



one of my good friends from HS changed teams after like her 3rd failed marriage and married another girl in our class last year.   I've been tapping that ass for decades so it was kind of a shock but still no big deal, she seems to be happier now then ever before.


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## Rednack (Sep 30, 2011)

If i was a kid, i'd rather sleep under a bridge and fend for myself rather than be raised be two homosexual men gawking over me everyday until they cant stand it anymore a decide to molest me..Soory for the imput folks, but gays are some sick muther fuckers..

why you ask?


because it's not natural...


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## LAM (Sep 30, 2011)

Rednack said:


> because it's not natural...



can you explain homosexual activity that is seen in the wild then if it's not natural?


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## Thee_One (Sep 30, 2011)

Rednack said:


> If i was a kid, i'd rather sleep under a bridge and fend for myself rather than be raised be two homosexual men gawking over me everyday until they cant stand it anymore a decide to molest me..Soory for the imput folks, but gays are some sick muther fuckers..
> 
> why you ask?
> 
> ...



Explain "not natural".
Something more than "men have a penis, women have a vagina".

It happens naturally. People do it. Animals do it.

Plus think back past what you have been raised and know, to several hundred years ago and back. Whole clans/villages would raise the children.
They would have many adults in their life, not just 2.


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## Zaphod (Sep 30, 2011)

Rednack said:


> If i was a kid, i'd rather sleep under a bridge and fend for myself rather than be raised be two homosexual men gawking over me everyday until they cant stand it anymore a decide to molest me..Soory for the imput folks, but gays are some sick muther fuckers..
> 
> why you ask?
> 
> ...



Since it is not natural, where did it begin?  According to the hardcore conservative and religious thinking homosexuality is learned.  Where did it begin since there wasn't anyone around to start teaching it to begin with?


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## Chubby (Sep 30, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> Since it is not natural, *where did it begin?* According to the hardcore conservative and religious thinking homosexuality is learned. Where did it begin since there wasn't anyone around to start teaching it to begin with?


It is addiction to deep seated desire, or abnormal urge. When people have urge to misbehave or they misbehave, they should be given support through education of any kind of help to get out of it. It should never be condoned, promoted or condemn the person who themselves are victims of this addiction. We have to stop playing politics or jumping on the bandwagon. We have responsibility to be honest.


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## Zaphod (Sep 30, 2011)

If we are to be honest then isn't it honest to say homosexuality occurs naturally?  Who is to say what abnormal desire is?  If that desire occurs naturally without outside influence then it obviously is natural.  Without an outside influence it would never occur if it isn't natural.  

Get what I'm saying?


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## KelJu (Sep 30, 2011)

Rednack said:


> If i was a kid, i'd rather sleep under a bridge and fend for myself rather than be raised be two homosexual men gawking over me everyday until they cant stand it anymore a decide to molest me..Soory for the imput folks, but gays are some sick muther fuckers..
> 
> why you ask?
> 
> ...



But sister fucking is good shit, am i right...anybody?


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## Thee_One (Sep 30, 2011)

Chubby said:


> *It is addiction to deep seated desire,* or abnormal urge. When people have urge to misbehave or they misbehave, they should be given support through education of any kind of help to get out of it. It should never be condoned, promoted or condemn the person who themselves are victims of this addiction. We have to stop playing politics or jumping on the bandwagon. We have responsibility to be honest.




I'm pretty sure, all sexual organisms (creatures that reproduce sexually as opposed to asexually) have a deep seated desire/addiction to sex.


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## irish_2003 (Sep 30, 2011)

i wonder how much more difficult it may be for many of these children to deal with harassment from other school kids that their parents are queer versus the difficulties of being in foster care or without parents at all......


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## dogsoldier (Sep 30, 2011)

BillHicksFan said:


> I don't like to generalize but I've noticed that many lesbian women hate men with a passion. Sometimes it makes me wonder whether they are actually attracted to women or simply repelled by men due to the resentment that they harbour.




I have NEVER heard a gay man say that women should be wiped ff the face of the earth. I have heard a former president of NOW say all male children should be killed at birth.  And the fucking crowd of lesbians cheer that statement when any sane person would have been appalled.  

I have never seen/heard a fag speak of women in general with hatred.  Can't say that about lesbians towards men.


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## maniclion (Sep 30, 2011)

Thee_One said:


> Explain "not natural".
> Something more than "men have a penis, women have a vagina".
> 
> It happens naturally. People do it. Animals do it.
> ...



Shit animals will fuck anything warm and squishy just see the monkey frog rape video I'm about to post in another thread...


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## Rednack (Sep 30, 2011)

Thee_One said:


> Explain "not natural".
> Something more than "men have a penis, women have a vagina".
> 
> It happens naturally. People do it. Animals do it.




Natural is the ability to reproduce..

And i've never seen or heard of two male dogs fucking or getting locked up..


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## LAM (Sep 30, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> If we are to be honest then isn't it honest to say homosexuality occurs naturally?  Who is to say what abnormal desire is?  If that desire occurs naturally without outside influence then it obviously is natural.  Without an outside influence it would never occur if it isn't natural.
> 
> Get what I'm saying?



society determines what is right and wrong...this is why all things that are legal are certainly not right and many things that are illegal certainly are not wrong..

sometimes society is stupid or just just get's it wrong....


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## FUZO (Sep 30, 2011)

Shouldnt happen. A man and a women thats it


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## MyK (Oct 1, 2011)

they should die in a fire


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## Gissurjon (Oct 1, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> i wonder how much more difficult it may be for many of these children to deal with harassment from other school kids that their parents are queer versus the difficulties of being in foster care or without parents at all......



Am I misunderstanding or are you saying it would be better to be in foster care than being made fun of in elementary ?


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## irish_2003 (Oct 1, 2011)

Gissurjon said:


> Am I misunderstanding or are you saying it would be better to be in foster care than being made fun of in elementary ?



i'm asking if it's same, worse, better?.....it's really tough to study these things because there's so many variables....i'm not sure i have an solid opinion either way.....i can only assume what I would be more comfortable with if it were me, but that's not a fair opinion since i'm never gonna be in that situation


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## Wookiemonster (Oct 3, 2011)

So long as they can show (to the same standards that heterosexual couples must) that they are capable of being fit parents, yes...they should. 

Them again I have all kinds of radical thoughts on homosexuals. For instance, imthink they should be allowed to marry, recieve medical benefits from their spouses, be able to be recognized as their spouses next of kin for medical reasons and many other things. 

If you think being homosexual=pedophilia, your a fucking moron. 

If you think being trapped in Americas Foster Care system is a better choice than having caring, loving, fit homosexual parents, your a fucking moron. 

If you think that homosexuality ISN'T seen elsewhere in nature, your a fucking moron.


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## Rednack (Oct 3, 2011)

Wookiemonster said:


> So long as they can show (to the same standards that heterosexual couples must) that they are capable of being fit parents, yes...they should.
> 
> Them again I have all kinds of radical thoughts on homosexuals. For instance, imthink they should be allowed to marry, recieve medical benefits from their spouses, be able to be recognized as their spouses next of kin for medical reasons and many other things.
> 
> ...


I think you're the fucking moron here..


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## Big Pimpin (Oct 3, 2011)

DOMS said:


> Growing up, I can't count the number of chicks that "found out" they were gay after a guy dumped them or a long period of no guys dating them.
> 
> I also find it hilarious that the man-hating lesbians usually try their hardest to look and act like men.




A girl I went to HS with had her parents divorce and shortly thereafter mom became a carpet muncher.  Guess what happened after that?  That's right, the daughter suddenly decided she was a carpet muncher too.


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## Thee_One (Oct 3, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> A girl I went to HS with had her parents divorce and shortly thereafter mom became a carpet muncher.  Guess what happened after that?  That's right, the daughter suddenly decided she was a carpet muncher too.




Pics or it didn't happen.


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## Thee_One (Oct 3, 2011)

Rednack said:


> Natural is the ability to reproduce..
> 
> And i've never seen or heard of two male dogs fucking or getting locked up..




Just do a quick google search and you will find plenty.


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## Big Pimpin (Oct 3, 2011)

Wookiemonster said:


> If you think being homosexual=pedophilia, your a fucking moron.




No, but a certain segment of the gay population is into fucking young boys (NAMBLA) and aren't afraid to admit it.


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## Wookiemonster (Oct 3, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> No, but a certain segment of the gay population is into fucking young boys (NAMBLA) and aren't afraid to admit it.


 

While some homosexual males might be pedophiles, that is in no way indicative of a lager trend in the population.

Correlation does not equal causation.


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## ALBOB (Oct 4, 2011)

KelJu said:


> But sister fucking is good shit, am i right...anybody?



Not for these two:

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/2451984-post4.html


http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/open-chat/141701-elevator-sex-cool-but-sibling-wrong-so-many-levels.html


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## LAM (Oct 4, 2011)

Gissurjon said:


> Am I misunderstanding or are you saying it would be better to be in foster care than being made fun of in elementary ?



this would be far less of a problem if US parents brought their children up properly vs instilling bullshit darwinist values in them.


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## ExLe (Oct 4, 2011)

Wookiemonster said:


> So long as they can show (to the same standards that heterosexual couples must) that they are capable of being fit parents, yes...they should.
> 
> Them again I have all kinds of radical thoughts on homosexuals. For instance, imthink they should be allowed to marry, recieve medical benefits from their spouses, be able to be recognized as their spouses next of kin for medical reasons and many other things.
> 
> ...


 





YouTube Video


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## Big Pimpin (Oct 4, 2011)

ALBOB said:


> Not for these two:
> 
> http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/2451984-post4.html
> 
> ...




Dad married sis, but I turned out alright.


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## Gissurjon (Oct 4, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> i'm asking if it's same, worse, better?.....it's really tough to study these things because there's so many variables....i'm not sure i have an solid opinion either way.....i can only assume what I would be more comfortable with if it were me, but that's not a fair opinion since i'm never gonna be in that situation



You would be more comfortable with foster care? WHAT.

you do realize these kids usually bounce from home to home, have serious love/connection/self esteem issues and not to mention the fact that many of these homes are run by extremely abusive foster parents. 

There are some good ones but no matter how you slice it, foster care is still a mini-orphanage 

Take it from someone who suffered bad bullying in school as I was the only black kid in my part of the city, 99% of the time you get over it.

And what makes you think kids in foster care don't get bullied for being in foster care? kids find shit to bully about regardless. you yanks lost the grip on your youth long time ago.


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## Rednack (Oct 4, 2011)

Gissurjon said:


> You would be more comfortable with foster care? WHAT.
> 
> you do realize these kids usually bounce from home to home, have serious love/connection/self esteem issues and not to mention the fact that many of these homes are run by extremely abusive foster parents.
> 
> ...


at least you weren't ass raped by two grown men pretending to be YOUR parents..


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## Gissurjon (Oct 4, 2011)

Rednack said:


> at least you weren't ass raped by two grown men pretending to be YOUR parents..



Speaking from experience? after all, rednecks are known for "intimate" parent-child relationships.


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## irish_2003 (Oct 4, 2011)

so what's the trade off? living in and out of foster care and having a shitty life or being bullied at school for having gay parents and living with the excessive bullying leading to suicide?......both options have pros and cons.....they both suck.....


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## Gissurjon (Oct 4, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> so what's the trade off? living in and out of foster care and having a shitty life or being bullied at school for having gay parents and living with the excessive bullying leading to suicide?......both options have pros and cons.....they both suck.....




Given the fact that there is bullying going on on just about every school playground in this country, the occasional suicide (which probably doesn't even count for 0.0001% of those actually bullied) isn't really a heavy weighing factor for any sort of an analysis or argument. 


here are some stats for foster kids

*Outcomes during transition from care to adulthood* *National data* 
                                            Earned a high school diploma             54%                                Obtained a Bachelor's degree or higher             2%                                Became a parent             84%                                Were unemployed             51%                                Had no health insurance             30%                                Had been homeless             25%                                Were receiving public assistance             30%

Foster Care Facts and Statistics

I promise you that the percentage of kids that kill themselves/have their life ruined, as a result of abuse in foster care is much higher than from bullying.


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## LAM (Oct 4, 2011)

from the gays that I know they are all middle class and above and for some reason always seem to have an excess of money so most likely these children will be going to good schools.  gays also favor the coasts as they are far more liberal than the highly conservative interior of the country so I think in reality there would be far less abuse in early school as many might think.


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## Zaphod (Oct 5, 2011)

Big Pimpin said:


> No, but a certain segment of the gay population is into fucking young boys (NAMBLA) and aren't afraid to admit it.



A certain segment of the straight population is into pedophilia as well.


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## Zaphod (Oct 5, 2011)

FUZO said:


> Shouldnt happen. A man and a women thats it



Why?


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## crazyotter (Oct 5, 2011)

I guess only strait white republican christians can be good parents, huh? 





That's funny cause most child molesters and cereal killers are ^^^^^


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## KelJu (Oct 5, 2011)

Rednack said:


> at least you weren't ass raped by two grown men pretending to be YOUR parents..



There is no higher percentage of gay child sex offenders than straight sex offenders. You watched a south park episode and took it for reality you dumb fuck.


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## squigader (Oct 5, 2011)

There have been studies done that PROVE that kids adopted by gays and lesbians don't turn out gay and lesbian any more than kids raised by straight parents. This is a fucking study, not what some pastor pulled out of his ass.

I think gay sex is disgusting, don't get me wrong, but I think it's better to have parents than none at all. Plenty of kids would love to have someone they could call mom or dad.


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## DOMS (Oct 5, 2011)

squigader said:


> There have been studies done that PROVE that kids adopted by gays and lesbians don't turn out gay and lesbian any more than kids raised by straight parents. This is a fucking study, not what some pastor pulled out of his ass.



$10 says that study was done at UC Berkeley.


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## ExLe (Oct 5, 2011)

squigader said:


> There have been studies done that PROVE that kids adopted by gays and lesbians don't turn out gay and lesbian any more than kids raised by straight parents. This is a fucking study, not what some pastor pulled out of his ass.
> 
> I think gay sex is disgusting, don't get me wrong, but I think it's better to have parents than none at all. Plenty of kids would love to have someone they could call mom or dad.


 

Or dad and dad...


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## rocco0218 (Oct 5, 2011)

whether you are for or against gay rights...doesn't matter.  If a child has a chance to be adopted to a good home, then I say good. It is much better than not having a family and growing up in an orphanage or on the streets.


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## Rednack (Oct 6, 2011)

KelJu said:


> There is no higher percentage of gay child sex offenders than straight sex offenders. You watched a south park episode and took it for reality you dumb fuck.


if you think a boy child grows up in a homosexual culture with two homosexual men and has any chance of turning out hetrosexual you're a fucking buffoon...


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## Zaphod (Oct 6, 2011)

Rednack said:


> if you think a boy child grows up in a homosexual culture with two homosexual men and has any chance of turning out hetrosexual you're a fucking buffoon...



Using your logic there will never be any gay children coming from straight marriages.  But that doesn't seem to be the case, does it?


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## Little Wing (Oct 6, 2011)

if straight parents = straight kids how did there get to BE so many gay people in the first place? it's not who raised you that makes you gay. and having been in the daycare profession for 20 years now i will tell you that kids are *far* more accepting of non traditional couples than their parents are. kids don't care another kid has two moms or two dads till some adult teaches them to care. kids don't care who is black or white or christian or jew till some asshole *teaches* them to care.

and for the record, male cats regularly rape lesser males as standard dominance assertion. alllllll kinds of gay sex exists in the animal kingdom.


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## Little Wing (Oct 6, 2011)

a childs chances of being abused rise over 500% in foster care and most people who murder their kids are straight. i'll take gay parents over that shit any day. and it's crazy to think if my mom liked pussy it'd make me not like men. jesus. you iz what you iz.


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## DOMS (Oct 6, 2011)

Little Wing said:


> if drug-free parents = drug-free kids how did there get to BE so many drug using people in the first place?



Choices.


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## Arnold (Oct 6, 2011)

I don't think being a gay couple should matter, the gay couple should be screened just like any other couple wanting to adopt. If they can provide a good, safe and loving home for a child then absolutely they should be approved. Being gay is not learned, you're born with theses tendencies or disposition, so its not like the child will end up gay just because the foster parents are.


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## KelJu (Oct 6, 2011)

Rednack said:


> if you think a boy child grows up in a homosexual culture with two homosexual men and has any chance of turning out hetrosexual you're a fucking buffoon...



Straight Kid With Gay Parents Testifies At Hearing In Iowa During Debate Over Banning Gay Marriage | Slog


I'm not going to ague with you while you are trying your best to sound like a halfwit.  Listen to this guy, and consider what he is saying.


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## Gissurjon (Oct 6, 2011)

KelJu said:


> Straight Kid With Gay Parents Testifies At Hearing In Iowa During Debate Over Banning Gay Marriage | Slog
> 
> 
> I'm not going to ague with you while you are trying your best to sound like a halfwit.  Listen to this guy, and consider what he is saying.



You know what the sad part is? Many other countries think this guy (Rednack) is the typical American. I find myself defending Americans to people from my country all the time. Yea allot of them are delusional religious nuts and we call them republicans (joke), but all in all, Americans are pretty decent people.


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## Gissurjon (Oct 6, 2011)

Little Wing said:


> if straight parents = straight kids how did there get to BE so many gay people in the first place? it's not who raised you that makes you gay. and having been in the daycare profession for 20 years now i will tell you that kids are *far* more accepting of non traditional couples than their parents are. kids don't care another kid has two moms or two dads till some adult teaches them to care. kids don't care who is black or white or christian or jew till some asshole *teaches* them to care.
> 
> and for the record, male cats regularly rape lesser males as standard dominance assertion. alllllll kinds of gay sex exists in the animal kingdom.



You are exactly right, where I'm from parents don't tell their kids it's wrong to fall in love with the same sex and therefore the kids don't give a flying fuck who their friend's parent is living with. Homosexuality is accepted as a way of life for some and anybody who speaks against a person based on their sexuality alone is considered pretty much a fucktard. Don't believe me? The prime minister is a lesbian.


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## Gissurjon (Oct 6, 2011)

Thankfully, people like rednack are a dying breed.


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## Little Wing (Oct 6, 2011)

DOMS said:


> Choices.



doms you are an intelligent human being for fucks sake don't tell me you honestly think gay is a choice? try this on for size - why don't you *CHOOSE* to be gay for one day. tell me if it made you like men. i think stubborn ignorance on this issue is a choice more than being straight or gay is. choose to not like women, just try. you cannot change sexual preference at will. i couldn't feel about a woman like i do a man for all the gold in the world. i could fake it maybe but not ever for real change. could you?


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## HialeahChico305 (Oct 6, 2011)

Little Wing said:


> doms you are an intelligent human being for fucks sake don't tell me you honestly think gay is a choice? try this on for size - why don't you *CHOOSE* to be gay for one day. tell me if it made you like men. i think stubborn ignorance on this issue is a choice more than being straight or gay is. choose to not like women, just try. you cannot change sexual preference at will. i couldn't feel about a woman like i do a man for all the gold in the world. i could fake it maybe but not ever for real change. could you?



I think DOMS is spot on, in a way it is a choice. I don't doubt there is people out there who enjoy the gay lifestyle, but a lot of it seems to me to be psychological and just people from both genders who are willing to settle for less. I've met a lot of women from my child hood who have been hurt by guys some many times they compensated their frustration with some punani and vice versa.


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## Arnold (Oct 6, 2011)

being gay is not a choice, anyone who thinks that is ignorant.


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## Wookiemonster (Oct 6, 2011)

Prince said:


> being gay is not a choice, anyone who thinks that is ignorant.


 

True.

However pretending to be gay to compensate for lack of ability to find and retain a sutable mate of the opposite gender is a choice.  And I at least have know several women who chose to pretend to be gay.


----------



## HialeahChico305 (Oct 6, 2011)

Wookiemonster said:


> True.
> 
> However pretending to be gay to compensate for lack of ability to find and retain a sutable mate of the opposite gender is a choice.  And I at least have know several women who chose to pretend to be gay.



Exactly and how would someone find out she is faking it if she lives the gay lifestyle ? To the outer eye a person would think its a legit relationship when in fact the girl is settleting for less because of lack of approval/love/care from the opposite sex.


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## REDDOG309 (Oct 6, 2011)

The Captn' is a perfect example.


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## HialeahChico305 (Oct 6, 2011)

REDDOG309 said:


> The Captn' is a perfect example.


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## KelJu (Oct 6, 2011)

Well lets talk about this then. Is it possible that sexual preference is like every other human personality trait: party genetic and partly environmental? I am willing to consider it for the sake of argument. 

I remember a study done long ago that showed a correlation between being a gay male and being the youngest male sibling in a household. Now I don't think sperm gets gayer over time, so it would lead me to believe that there may be a developmental aspect to being gay. Also, the comments about chicks becoming muff divers after a string of failed relationships also points to an environmental aspect. However, even if that is true, then environment is still shaping their preference, not their logical rational decision making. 

By its very nature, a preference is not a decision. The innate desire to have strawberry ice cream over vanilla is a preference. To eat the lowfat vanilla because it has lower calories is a decision. Sexual orientation is defined by preference, not decisions. So, it not only and opinion, but a fact that being gay is not a fucking decision just based on the definitions of the words begin used to describe the argument. 

Some dumb skank who eats muff, because she fears being hurt again by a man, but doesn't want to be alone isn't really gay anymore than some closet homo sucking dick in bathrooms while living a straight family life is heterosexual.  

Come on people, Jesus fucking Christ, use your brains.


----------



## DOMS (Oct 6, 2011)

Little Wing said:


> doms you are an intelligent human being for fucks sake don't tell me you honestly think gay is a choice? try this on for size - why don't you *CHOOSE* to be gay for one day. tell me if it made you like men.



Other people choose to like broccoli, so why don't I? Why not long distance running? Self-flagellation? Pink shirts? 

Why not? Because I don't like those things. I've _chosen_ to not like those things.



Little Wing said:


> you cannot change sexual preference at will.



Many fat and/or abused women say otherwise.



Little Wing said:


> i couldn't feel about a woman like i do a man for all the gold in the world.



And because you can't find it into yourself to make such a choice, others can't?

If someone wants to be gay, fine. I don't care one way or another. Truth is, I like hanging around gay men (not women, though), because I generally find them to be fun people.

In the end (no pun intended), there are two realities about homosexuality:

1) It's a choice. Just like choosing green for your car. It suits your tastes.

2) It's not a choice. It's a genetic aberration. It's also a genetic dead end. In nature, animals that don't procreate, have their genetics removed from the gene pool. It's basic Darwinism. If that's so, then homosexuality is of the same order as type 1 diabetes and mental retardation.

My choice is to believe option 1.


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## DOMS (Oct 6, 2011)

KelJu said:


> Some dumb skank who eats muff, because she fears being hurt again by a man, but doesn't want to be alone isn't really gay anymore than some closet homo sucking dick in bathrooms while living a straight family life is heterosexual.



Utter nonsense. 

A women having an ongoing sexual relationship is gay. It's the very fucking definition. A closet pole smoker is gay too because he also meets the very definition. It doesn't matter what they want to call themselves. I'm white, I can call myself a negro, but that doesn't mean jack shit.

They live a gay lifestyle, but because _you_ don't trust their motives, it's not really gay.

Riiight...


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## KelJu (Oct 6, 2011)

DOMS said:


> Utter nonsense.
> 
> A women having an ongoing sexual relationship is gay. It's the very fucking definition.
> 
> ...




The problem is terminology. Sexual orientation, doesn't mean the same thing as gay to some people. The word "gay" should really just be thrown out of the discussion because of its ambiguity. Some people think it means orientation, and others think it means lifestyle decisions. 

If you look it up, the word refers to orientation, not lifestyle. A closet homo could secretly crave cock his whole life, but never go though with it out of fear of rejection from his family, friends, co-workers, ect. Is the gay straight in your opinion? Does he avoid being labeled gay as long as he doesn't do what is in his very nature to do?


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## squigader (Oct 6, 2011)

DOMS said:


> $10 says that study was done at UC Berkeley.



http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/parenting-full.pdf

Page 10, first column. There are references to a bunch of studies. Logically it wouldn't make sense anyway - if it depended on your parents, why do some siblings turn out gay and others not? If a boy is raised by a single mother, does he end up liking dick? So why would that be if an orphan boy was adopted by a lesbian female? It doesn't work that way.


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## Wookiemonster (Oct 6, 2011)

HialeahChico305 said:


> Exactly and how would someone find out she is faking it if she lives the gay lifestyle ? To the outer eye a person would think its a legit relationship when in fact the girl is settleting for less because of lack of approval/love/care from the opposite sex.


 
Of the 3 I know...they were fullblown dick hating women lovers...who promptly jumped off that wagon and back on the 1st dick who took a liking to them.


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## irish_2003 (Oct 6, 2011)

ok so if 2 straight parents have a gay kid, then how in the world do 2 white parents have a wigger for a kid?.....


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## OfficerFarva (Oct 6, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> how in the world do 2 white parents have a wigger for a kid?.....



The right combination of alleles.


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## Little Wing (Oct 6, 2011)

DOMS said:


> Utter nonsense.
> 
> A women having an ongoing sexual relationship is gay.



wrong. she's just being a douche cuz she got stung and will go right back to cock as soon as some guy she likes takes an interest in her. happened to a member here who got royally pissed at me for telling her she was going to end up doing exactly what she did, went back to men. i slept with a couple girls but there's not a gay cell in my body. women just don't turn me on they turn lesbians on. men turn me on. a gay guy isn't really any more capable of switching his desire to women than you are switching yours to men. unless you're secretly gay but just made a choice to live straight. then your argument makes sense. but you'd still crave the cock you'd still be gay just like a straight woman munching carpet is still straight. oy


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## Little Wing (Oct 6, 2011)

i'm sitting here laughing at the thought of men deciding to turn to guys cuz they got fucked over by a woman. there'd be more gays than you could shake a stick at.


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## DOMS (Oct 6, 2011)

Little Wing said:


> wrong. she's just being a douche cuz she got stung



So, just because she decides to bat from the other team, she's a douche?

Ouch.



Little Wing said:


> i slept with a couple girls but there's not a gay cell in my body.



You'll notice that I said, "ongoing relationship". I did that to make it clear I wasn't talking about experimentation.

If you're okay with sleeping with women on random occasions, you're gay. You can _call_ it anything you want, but you're gay. Even if you're a switch hitter, you're still gay.

Also...vids or it didn't happen.


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## KelJu (Oct 6, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> ok so if 2 straight parents have a gay kid, then how in the world do 2 white parents have a wigger for a kid?.....



Neglect!


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## KelJu (Oct 6, 2011)

Little Wing said:


> i'm sitting here laughing at the thought of men deciding to turn to guys cuz they got fucked over by a woman. there'd be more gays than you could shake a stick at.



It's because women have a better deal on that one. Women are pretty and aesthetically pleasing for the most part. Taking sexuality out of the equation, men are hairy, ugly, disgusting creatures. 

In the words of the late great Sam Kinnison:

"How does a man look at another man's hairy ass and find love?"


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## DOMS (Oct 6, 2011)

KelJu said:


> Neglect!



How does two gay parents raise a gay?

By example.


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## Little Wing (Oct 6, 2011)

DOMS said:


> So, just because she decides to bat from the other team, she's a douche?
> 
> Ouch.
> 
> ...




i find it very hard to believe you're serious and not playing devil's advocate. 

and i slept with women because the man involved in the 3somes liked it. really not gay. was 20ish and soooooo surprised how nonsexual a feeling it was. i didn't think it was gross but all i could think was it was like touching cardboard. there was none of the feelings or excitement like sex with a man. no shame or guilt just no arousal at all. get in a lamborghini put the pedal to the floor and nothing. 

i think gay is simply you _desire_ a same sex partner are _aroused_ by them whether you act on it or not. in my opinion if a man sleeps with a woman and gets off by closing his eyes and pretending his sucking off a guy all the time he's gay he just hasn't acted on his true nature.


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## LightBearer (Oct 6, 2011)

in my opinion, when gays adopt children, the children have much more of a chance of becoming gay just because of their surroundings and upbringing
why should the manufacture of gay people out of otherwise would be normal straight kids be okay?




Little Wing said:


> in my opinion if a man sleeps with a woman  and gets off by closing his eyes and pretending his sucking off a guy  all the time he's gay he just hasn't acted on his true nature.


oh so going by the way you see it, if a guys gf wanted a 3some with another man, and she wanted him to blow the dude and everything, said dude would not be gay? just taking one for the team i guess?   nope, dudes a homo


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## LAM (Oct 6, 2011)

*Homosexual behaviour widespread in animals according to new study*

Homosexual behaviour widespread in animals according to new study - Telegraph

The pairing of same sex couples had previously been observed in more than 1,000 species including penguins, dolphins and primates.

However, in the latest study the authors claim the phenomenon is not only widespread but part of a necessary biological adaptation for the survival of the species.

They found that on the Hawaiian island of Oahu, almost a third of the Laysan albatross population is raised by pairs of two females because of the shortage of males. Through these 'lesbian' unions, Laysan albatross are flourishing. Their existence had been dwindling before the adaptation was noticed.

Other species form same-sex bonds for other reasons, they found. Dolphins have been known engage in same-sex interactions to facilitate group bonding while male-male pairings in locusts killed off the weaker males.

A pair of "gay" penguins recently hatched an egg at a German zoo after being given the egg that had been rejected by its biological parents by keepers. 

Writing in Trends in Ecology & Evolution, Dr Nathan Bailey, an evolutionary biologist at California University, said previous studies have failed to consider the evolutionary consequences of homosexuality.

He said same homosexual behaviour was often a product of natural selection to further the survival of the species.

Dr Bailey said: "It's clear same-sex sexual behaviour extends far beyond the well-known examples that dominate both the scientific and popular literature ??? for example, bonobos, dolphins, penguins and fruit flies.

"Same-sex behaviours ??? courtship, mounting or parenting ??? are traits that may have been shaped by natural selection, a basic mechanism of evolution that occurs over successive generations," he said.

"But our review of studies also suggests that these same-sex behaviours might act as selective forces in and of themselves."


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## HialeahChico305 (Oct 6, 2011)

Little Wing said:


> i'm sitting here laughing at the thought of men deciding to turn to guys cuz they got fucked over by a woman. there'd be more gays than you could shake a stick at.



You have to understand that with man its all about ego. Our alpha male ego won't let us turn that route no matter how much girls piss us off (im talking mainly about my point of view). But there is some guys who will settle for less or experiment with trannies/gays in secret because of their misfortunes with women.


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## Rednack (Oct 7, 2011)

i sure am glad i love a womans hairy gut..


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## SFW (Oct 7, 2011)

I think its an excuse women use...

"The guy liked the idea of me with another girl, so i scissored her and ate her snatch."

I dont care how much i like a woman, im not whackin anyone off to impress her!

Honestly, women are just gayer by nature.


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## BillHicksFan (Oct 7, 2011)

lol at people thinking that being gay is a choice. 

The idea of sucking a dick for pure pleasure does not appeal to me whatsover. As open minded as I am, I could never talk myself into enjoying that.


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## Little Wing (Oct 7, 2011)

in prison i think some straight men become sexually opportunistic. i know a straight guy who let a gay guy blow him. he said it wasn't better than a woman can do it as gay men claim and he couldn't cum till he fantasized it was a woman doing it. i don't think experimenting or desperation make you gay. to be gay you have to actually _prefer_ and enjoy same sex partners. not doing gay things when that's really your preference doesn't make you straight either.


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## Zaphod (Oct 7, 2011)

LightBearer said:


> in my opinion, when gays adopt children, the children have much more of a chance of becoming gay just because of their surroundings and upbringing
> why should the manufacture of gay people out of otherwise would be normal straight kids be okay?
> 
> 
> ...



Is exactly that:  opinion.  Not fact, opinion.  

But you are correct about the dude being a homo when taking one for the team.


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## Little Wing (Oct 7, 2011)

SFW said:


> I think its an excuse women use...
> 
> "The guy liked the idea of me with another girl, so i scissored her and ate her snatch."
> 
> ...



actually it was the other girls idea. i was a gift she gave her boyfriend. a lot of women do that but could live in the same house for years and never just have sex with each other for pleasure. 

and i personally know a girl that has gotten 2 guys that like her to kiss each other. just kiss but there's a whole sub culture of young girls out there that write slash fiction. Slash fiction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia stories usually written by females about men having sex with other men because they find it exciting. there much more stigma attached to male male activity so of course it's less common for men to fool around like that but a lot of women watch m/m gay porn. i found out about slash fiction cuz i made the comment men aren't stupid enough to do gay stuff just to get female approval. it bugs me that young girls label themselves bi simply for male approval when they really don't have a bit of true lust for other females.


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## DOMS (Oct 7, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> Is exactly that:  opinion.  Not fact, opinion.



So you think that children aren't influenced by the example of their parents?


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## BillHicksFan (Oct 7, 2011)

DOMS said:


> So you think that children aren't influenced by the example of their parents?



When I was jerking off at 11 years old the last thing on my mind was my parents. Sexually speaking, they didnt influence me one bit.


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## Little Wing (Oct 7, 2011)

DOMS said:


> So you think that children aren't influenced by the example of their parents?



i grew up in a violent alcoholic home. i'm neither of those things and having a lesbian mom wouldn't have made me less hot for guys. do you honestly think a gay man can decide to not be gay? not just stop the activity but the desire? i just don't. i love beautiful women they are like art but it's not sexual. i could never decide to _not_ be aroused by men or transfer that reaction to females. i love their looks, smell, sound... i can find a woman fascinating and love things about her but it's just not desire.


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## bio-chem (Oct 7, 2011)

bandaidwoman said:


> A collegue at Columbia Presbytarian showed me how a famous dead singer's mom gave him shots as a teenager so his voice would remain in the soprano range, I won't go further since I don't know if HIPAA applies when they die. So it's not just gay parents.
> 
> 
> Demographics wise,  the gay couples adopting are in a socioeconomic class that  can support and educate and provide love for these unwanted children. When I'm moonlighting in the emergency room  I report too many kids to DFACS when I see the boyfriend of their drug addicted moms nearly killing them, or malnourished since their parents would rather buy drugs than food etc. So many heterosexual parents are patheticand  take their kids for granted.
> ...


Michael Jackson was treated at Columbia Presbyterian?


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## bio-chem (Oct 7, 2011)

Little Wing said:


> i grew up in a violent alcoholic home. i'm neither of those things and having a lesbian mom wouldn't have made me less hot for guys. do you honestly think a gay man can decide to not be gay? not just stop the activity but the desire? i just don't. i love beautiful women they are like art but it's not sexual. i could never decide to _not_ be aroused by men or transfer that reaction to females. i love their looks, smell, sound... i can find a woman fascinating and love things about her but it's just not desire.



tell me more


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## Little Wing (Oct 7, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> tell me more




i have a theory that women appreciate beauty in each other because as little girls we coveted beautiful dolls and as teens knew all the fashion models by their first names. if i say oh this woman is so beautiful or sexy usually most men would agree but often my male partners will say a certain guy is handsome and i just don't see it. they seem to look for odd traits that i don't think are aesthetically appealing. it's usually a very macho type male they admire.

i love my avatar. the girl's wild hair and sad, searching, soulful eyes. i love the way the artists made her lips so ripe. i dare any guy here to show a pic of a guy and say similar things. i don't desire her i find her beautiful. she is. men are not allowed to express those things about other men even if they think it. it's "gay". the stigma is mucho sucko.


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## bio-chem (Oct 7, 2011)

this whole thread has been a very fascinating read. interesting points on both sides.

Most posts haven't been dealing with the original article. I'm disappointed that medical ethics would even allow something like that. That little boy is a guaranteed suicide.


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## bio-chem (Oct 7, 2011)

Little Wing said:


> i have a theory that women appreciate beauty in each other because as little girls we coveted beautiful dolls and as teens knew all the fashion models by their first names. if i say oh this woman is so beautiful or sexy usually most men would agree but often my male partners will say a certain guy is handsome and i just don't see it. *they seem to look for odd traits that i don't think are aesthetically appealing. it's usually a very macho type male they admire.*



explain further. if all this time im spending in the gym is a waste i'm going to be pissed


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## Little Wing (Oct 7, 2011)

no, muscle is hot. gym time not wasted. it's usually a guy with a mustache or other manly man features. burt reynolds, the magnum pi guy, david hasselhoff types. i don't get it. i say no, Jonathan Rhys Meyers is hot and they are equally as confused. the akinator thing crono posted i did JRM it asked does he make women swoon. i said yes and it says expected answer about JRM was no


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## bio-chem (Oct 7, 2011)

Little Wing said:


> no, muscle is hot. gym time not wasted. it's usually a guy with a mustache or other manly man features. burt reynolds, the magnum pi guy, david hasselhoff types. i don't get it. i say no, Jonathan Rhys Meyers is hot and they are equally as confused. the akinator thing crono posted i did JRM it asked does he make women swoon. i said yes and it says expected answer about JRM was no



so guys were telling you that they found other men with facial hair attractive? that's very gay. 

I had to look up this JRM guy. seems to be just another kid to me. 

In my experience women find facial hair attractive if their fathers had facial hair. i know it has all kinds of Freudian shit written all over it, but that's just something i've noticed.


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## Little Wing (Oct 7, 2011)

His parents say the hormone treatment  will give him time to figure out if he wants to fully transition to  being female or go through puberty as a boy.
 If he chooses to stop taking the  drugs, he will undergo natural male puberty at a later stage and his  future fertility would not be impacted. 

Read more: The California boy, 11, who is undergoing hormone blocking treatment | Mail Online

it sounds like nothing is set in stone and they are listening to their child.

I wish puberty blockers had been available to me when I was 11 years old.  I knew then. And by law I could not act on my knowledge until after puberty-- after my body had solidified into the wrong shape.  This might have kept me from two suicide attempts.  
 - Dianne, Los Angeles Ca, 01/10/2011 01:38

At 8 years old, needing to talk to someone, I  wrote to a magazine columnist, to be told I was too young to know my own  mind. At 19 I was diagnosed with Gender Identity Dysphoria but  terrified enough by my parents to stop myself from going ahead with it.  With the best will in the world, they were scared of the life I'd be  setting myself up for. So now, aged 27, I am still trapped in the same  female body I was born with, wishing I'd done something about it at 19.  And I would've jumped at the chance to transition before puberty hit! The suicidal feelings didn't reach me until last year. I have overcome  that, but the constant feeling of anxiety and desperation at being stuck  in the wrong body cannot properly be understood by someone who hasn't  gone through it. GID occurs in the womb. We have no control over it. My  parents admit that even as a toddler I acted male. Looking at me, you  wouldn't know I had GID. We're ordinary people, living with an  extraordinary condition. Best of luck Tammy!
 - blending in, scotland, 01/10/2011 01:12


*The headline is inflammatory to say the least  and as for the comments, did people not read the article?  The boy is  not having a sex change.  He has an implant to prevent pubity to give  him time to either grow out of his current need to become a girl or to  decide to have a sex change when he is old enough to make the decision.   If you read the article you will also see the parents are struggling  with his distress and are trying to do the best thing to prevent more  pain for him.  I think that is excellent parenting.*


and it shouldn't even need to be said but the bulk of parents faced with this issue are NOT gay couples. 
​​


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## Little Wing (Oct 7, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> so guys were telling you that they found other men with facial hair attractive? that's very gay.
> 
> I had to look up this JRM guy. seems to be just another kid to me.
> 
> In my experience women find facial hair attractive if their fathers had facial hair. i know it has all kinds of Freudian shit written all over it, but that's just something i've noticed.



 it makes sense. my real father, who i was not raised by, is funny and plays guitar. i like funny men and most guys i date play guitar. that last guy really couldn't play though he'd just use malmsteen stuff and claim it was him. 








jk


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## Zaphod (Oct 7, 2011)

DOMS said:


> So you think that children aren't influenced by the example of their parents?



They are influenced by their parents.  To say they aren't is silly.  But to say that children will become homosexuals because that's what their adoptive parents are is just as silly.  

Here's an example.  My parents are devout practicing christians but I'm not.  Being bombarded by christianity all my first 19 years should have made me just as much a bible thumper as they are.  Same with my siblings.  One out of five of us should have become a bible thumper.  But none of us have.  

Although the five of us do try to be the best people we can, so in that way we were influenced by our parents.


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## DOMS (Oct 7, 2011)

BillHicksFan said:


> When I was jerking off at 11 years old the last thing on my mind was my parents. Sexually speaking, they didnt influence me one bit.



First off, there's more to a gay relationship than sex.

They probably effected you more than you might think. The way that you treat women is based, at least in part, how your father, and any older brothers, treated women.

To try to say that children's social development isn't heavily influenced by the parents is nothing more than denial. "I'm too cool to be like my parents." They were around you during your formative years. Especially when you were very young and your parents were everything to you.


----------



## Chubby (Oct 7, 2011)

Little Wing said:


> i grew up in a violent alcoholic home. i'm neither of those things and having a lesbian mom wouldn't have made me less hot for guys. *do you honestly think a gay man can decide to not be gay? not just stop the activity but the desire? i just don't.* i love beautiful women they are like art but it's not sexual. i could never decide to _not_ be aroused by men or transfer that reaction to females. i love their looks, smell, sound... i can find a woman fascinating and love things about her but it's just not desire.


What do you think about pedophile and people involved in incest? Do you think they can stop being who they are? These gay and two above falls in same catgories - misbehaviour. Homosexuallity is supported by polictians for their self interest, promoted by profit hungry medias and accepted by gullible citizens. If politicians and people really care about these misguided people, then they should show their support by being honest and find a way to educate them about their misbehaviour, rather than continue to misguide them in order to win their votes. This issue is about moral principal, and not a politics. People shouldn't be playing politics with it. How low are we willing to go? 
At first marriage was between a man and woman. Now marriage is between two persons. Next, is marriage going to be between two living beings?


----------



## LAM (Oct 7, 2011)

DOMS said:


> So you think that children aren't influenced by the example of their parents?



modeling is of course a major factor but then you also have to add in the genetic component and environmental factors.


----------



## Little Wing (Oct 7, 2011)

i have a lot of sympathy for any parent who has to face such a thing. i imagine you just listen to your child and do the best you can if you love them like their life is theirs and not an extension of you, your pride, social standing, or ego. kids forced to be who they are not, who are not loved and accepted as they are are the suicide risk. kids made to feel they are an abomination and humiliation. a lot of straight biological parents really don't give a rat's ass about their kids. kudos to people willing to step up and do their best gay or not.


----------



## DOMS (Oct 7, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> They are influenced by their parents.  To say they aren't is silly.  But to say that children will become homosexuals because that's what their adoptive parents are is just as silly.



Just likes it's silly to believe that a boy raised by gays wouldn't be more likely to be gay himself.



Zaphod said:


> Here's an example.  My parents are devout practicing christians but I'm not.  Being bombarded by christianity all my first 19 years should have made me just as much a bible thumper as they are.  Same with my siblings.  One out of five of us should have become a bible thumper.  But none of us have.



Consider this: how many Christians now were born to Christian parents versus how many join?

Yeah, some raised as Christian leave, but many, many more go on to be Christians.

Also, how many children raised by Christian parents, but that don't truly want to live it, do so just to please their parents?


----------



## DOMS (Oct 7, 2011)

LAM said:


> modeling is of course a major factor but then you also have to add in the genetic component and environmental factors.


Of course. That's why children are just carbon copies of the their parents. But children, especially those that grow up with attentive or highly abusive parents, will model strongly on them.


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## Zaphod (Oct 7, 2011)

DOMS said:


> Just likes it's silly to believe that a boy raised by gays wouldn't be more likely to be gay himself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There is zero evidence to support that a boy raised by gays is more likely to become gay than he otherwise would.  

Christianity doesn't really concern me a whole lot so I honestly can't say about any of that.  Judging by the way you capitalise christianity is it safe to assume you are a practicing christian?  Perhaps you can enlighten me as to those numbers you are asking about.


----------



## DOMS (Oct 7, 2011)

Chubby said:


> What do you think about pedophile and people involved in incest? Do you think they can stop being who they are? These gay and two above falls in same catgories - misbehaviour. Homosexuallity is supported by polictians for their self interest, promoted by profit hungry medias and accepted by gullible citizens. If politicians and people really care about these misguided people, then they should show their support by being honest and find a way to educate them about their misbehaviour, rather than continue to misguide them in order to win their votes. This issue is about moral principal, and not a politics. People shouldn't be playing politics with it. How low are we willing to go?
> At first marriage was between a man and woman. Now marriage is between two persons. Next, is marriage going to be between two living beings?



You need to lose the idea that being gay equates to pedophilia. 

Yes, gay priest have raped young boys, but that doesn't mean that all gays are pedophiles any more than man-on-girl pedophiles means that all heterosexuals are pedophiles.


----------



## DOMS (Oct 7, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> There is zero evidence to support that a boy raised by gays is more likely to become gay than he otherwise would.



There are no studies because that sort of thing has only recently been allowed. But the fact that you ignore basic child development doesn't mean that it will go away.



Zaphod said:


> Christianity doesn't really concern me a whole lot so I honestly can't say about any of that.  Judging by the way you capitalise christianity is it safe to assume you are a practicing christian?  Perhaps you can enlighten me as to those numbers you are asking about.



Or...the fact that I capital Christianity is because I like proper grammar and spelling? Just like Muslim and just like Buddhist. Get it?

But nice attempt at trying to do a run-around on my point by trying to draw religion into it.


----------



## Chubby (Oct 7, 2011)

DOMS said:


> *You need to lose the idea that being gay equates to pedophilia. *
> 
> Yes, gay priest have raped young boys, but that doesn't mean that all gays are pedophiles any more than man-on-girl pedophiles means that all heterosexuals are pedophiles.


 I wasn't trying to make a connection between gay and pedophiles.  I was saying they are all some of many misbehaviours.  For Example: incest, phedophile, homosexuallity, human + animals, etc.


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## DOMS (Oct 7, 2011)

Chubby said:


> I wasn't trying to make a connection between gay and pedophiles.  I was saying they are all some of many misbehaviours.  For Example: incest, phedophile, homosexuallity, human + animals, etc.



Ah, I get it. You're looking for the term "sexual deviant."


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## Zaphod (Oct 7, 2011)

DOMS said:


> There are no studies because that sort of thing has only recently been allowed. But the fact that you ignore basic child development doesn't mean that it will go away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not ignoring basic child development.  Having three children of my own I speak from experience.  Children are going to be what they are going to be.  Parents have SOME amount of influence, not nearly as much as their friends and peers.  Studies have been done on this. 

I think "capitalize Chrisitianity" is the proper grammar you are looking for.  I was using religion as an example of parental influence or its lack.  Your seeming rhetorical questions about christianity lead me to believe you have some knowledge on the subject so I was honestly asking about it.


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## LAM (Oct 7, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> I'm not ignoring basic child development.  Having three children of my own I speak from experience.  Children are going to be what they are going to be.  Parents have SOME amount of influence, not nearly as much as their friends and peers.  Studies have been done on this.



more and more studies are showing that most of how we turn out is pre-programmed in us and even less on on how we are raised.  so it might appear that nature has a much greater effect than nurture.


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## DOMS (Oct 7, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> I'm not ignoring basic child development.  Having three children of my own I speak from experience.  Children are going to be what they are going to be.  Parents have SOME amount of influence, not nearly as much as their friends and peers.  Studies have been done on this.



I have three children as well. I'm attentive and guiding, and they are a lot like me. I'm sure that peers play more of a role in situations where the parent is neglectful.

Not that I believe I'm the sold influence in my children's lives, but I'm far from a minor influence.



Zaphod said:


> I think "capitalize Chrisitianity" is the proper grammar you are looking for.  I was using religion as an example of parental influence or its lack.  Your seeming rhetorical questions about christianity lead me to believe you have some knowledge on the subject so I was honestly asking about it.



It never fails. Every time I use the word "grammar", I screw up at least one thing.

My mom was somewhat into religion. Which is how I'd describe myself.


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## HialeahChico305 (Oct 7, 2011)

DOMS said:


> I have three children as well. I'm attentive and guiding, and they are a lot like me. *I'm sure that peers play more of a role in situations where the parent is neglectful.
> 
> Not that I believe I'm the sold influence in my children's lives, but I'm far from a minor influence.*
> 
> ...


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## myCATpowerlifts (Oct 7, 2011)

Chubby said:


> What do you think about pedophile and people involved in incest? Do you think they can stop being who they are? These gay and two above falls in same catgories - misbehaviour. Homosexuallity is supported by polictians for their self interest, promoted by profit hungry medias and accepted by gullible citizens. If politicians and people really care about these misguided people, then they should show their support by being honest and find a way to educate them about their misbehaviour, rather than continue to misguide them in order to win their votes. This issue is about moral principal, and not a politics. People shouldn't be playing politics with it. How low are we willing to go?
> At first marriage was between a man and woman. Now marriage is between two persons. *Next, is marriage going to be between two living beings?*



Sure why not?


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## bio-chem (Oct 7, 2011)

myCATpowerlifts said:


> Sure why not?



so your cat can make the decision to keep you on life support or not?


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## myCATpowerlifts (Oct 7, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> so your cat can make the decision to keep you on life support or not?



Can you think of a better alternative?


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## Little Wing (Oct 7, 2011)

myCATpowerlifts said:


> Can you think of a better alternative?




might be a bad idea. look up postmortem predation. 

1992 American Academy of Forensic Sciences conference in New Orleans and  a forensic pathologist related the following story (paraphrased as best  as memory will serve): "Sometimes, when an individual living alone dies  unexpectedly, several days may pass before anyone takes notice. Some of  these individuals may own a dog or a cat, which will go unfed. In my  experience, a dog may go for several days before finally resorting to  eating the owner's body. A cat, on the other hand, will only wait a day  or two.


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## bio-chem (Oct 7, 2011)

myCATpowerlifts said:


> Can you think of a better alternative?



How about a man and a woman married. I know, i know. Im full of radical ideas that would never work


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## Zaphod (Oct 7, 2011)

DOMS said:


> I have three children as well. I'm attentive and guiding, and they are a lot like me. I'm sure that peers play more of a role in situations where the parent is neglectful.
> 
> Not that I believe I'm the sold influence in my children's lives, but I'm far from a minor influence.
> 
> ...



Grammar and religion are alike.  No big deal.


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## Zaphod (Oct 7, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> How about a man and a woman married. I know, i know. Im full of radical ideas that would never work



In a perfect world.  But we don't live in a perfect world.  If a homosexual couple can provide, care for and nurture a child just as well as a heterosexual couple then what's the problem?  It just isn't what a lot of people call "normal."


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## LAM (Oct 7, 2011)

labels can be very destructive and I think this subject is a perfect example of that.  the fact that people are labeled as being "gay" that this makes them somehow less effective at parenting and not qualified as a heterosexual couple.  while I do not know any gay couples raising children I do know plenty of heterosexual couples that have royally fucked up all their children...


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## bio-chem (Oct 7, 2011)

people need to toughen the fuck up. labels don't hurt anyone.


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## Zaphod (Oct 7, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> people need to toughen the fuck up. labels don't hurt anyone.



Easy to say if you aren't the one being labeled in a derogatory way.


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## LAM (Oct 7, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> people need to toughen the fuck up. labels don't hurt anyone.



there are plenty of studies and papers out there in the psychology world they are saying the exact opposite.  

obviously some labels can be good and important especially if you just trying to add detail to something.  but applying labels to types of people effects how those people are viewed and "judged" in many, many different ways now and in the future and a lot of times they have very negative and severe consequences.

sometimes people become that "thing" that people say they are.  basically a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.


below is a link to a page a stumbled on the other day.

Why It's Dangerous to Label People | Psychology Today


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## bio-chem (Oct 7, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> Easy to say if you aren't the one being labeled in a derogatory way.



I'm a member of the LDS church. I've dealt with my share of labels and persecution. and the truth is it's part of the human experience. everyone get's labeled at some point during their lives. again, people need to toughen up. the philippino people have a term called "ballat saboyas" it means "onion skinned" its like calling someone thin skinned. people need to toughen up. being called gay doesn't hurt anymore than calling me a Mormon. bunch of communist, limp dicked , pussies.


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## bio-chem (Oct 7, 2011)

LAM said:


> there are plenty of studies and papers out there in the psychology world they are saying the exact opposite.
> 
> obviously some labels can be good and important especially if you just trying to add detail to something.  but applying labels to types of people effects how those people are viewed and "judged" in many, many different ways now and in the future and a lot of times they have very negative and severe consequences.
> 
> ...


so by calling someone "black" they are somehow "blacker"? this article doesn't change my opinion in the slightest.


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## Zaphod (Oct 7, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> I'm a member of the LDS church. I've dealt with my share of labels and persecution. and the truth is it's part of the human experience. everyone get's labeled at some point during their lives. again, people need to toughen up. the philippino people have a term called "ballat saboyas" it means "onion skinned" its like calling someone thin skinned. people need to toughen up. being called gay doesn't hurt anymore than calling me a Mormon. bunch of communist, limp dicked , pussies.



There is a difference between being thin skinned and being beat down to the point you snap and do something illogical.  The first 20+ years of my life I was labeled a nerd.  Fortunately my mental processes allowed for the fact I wasn't one of the beautiful people (I'm still not) and I didn't care (I still don't).  However I can appreciate that some people are wired differently and being called a nerd, fag, ******, etc. can cause some problems for them.  Labels can and do hurt, just not everybody.


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## Curt James (Oct 7, 2011)

troubador said:


> It doesn't matter to me. They're not my kids and they're just moving from one fucked up place to another. In this case *the kid needs psychiatric help not hormones.*



This.

Especially at age eight, wtf?


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## BillHicksFan (Oct 7, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> people need to toughen the fuck up. labels don't hurt anyone.




If I were gay I would not give a damn about what people thought about me however when those people have a say in whether or not I am able get married or start a family legally, that's when it would have a serious problem with them.

They are the ones that need to harden the fuck up and mind their own business.


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## bio-chem (Oct 7, 2011)

BillHicksFan said:


> If I were gay I would not give a damn about what people thought about me however when those people have a say in whether or not I am able get married or start a family legally, that's when it would have a serious problem with them.
> 
> They are the ones that need to harden the fuck up and mind their own business.



people have a right to choose the laws that they are governed by. including defining marriage. homosexuals have the same rights to *start a family* as a heterosexual. they just don't have the same capability in their chosen relationships


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## BillHicksFan (Oct 7, 2011)

DOMS said:


> First off, there's more to a gay relationship than sex.
> 
> They probably effected you more than you might think. The way that you treat women is based, at least in part, how your father, and any older brothers, treated women.
> 
> To try to say that children's social development isn't heavily influenced by the parents is nothing more than denial. "I'm too cool to be like my parents." They were around you during your formative years. Especially when you were very young and your parents were everything to you.



You're right in saying that many children aim to be like their parents as longs as they admire their traits. I've learned loyalty among other things from my parents as they are still together after 40 years of marriage but that's just an example.

Id display these traits in a relationship just as I have done in the past however it would be only with people who I'm attracted to and that comes down to pure instinct. There's no way that somebody could have influenced me into doing something I didn't want to do such as being gay. Hell, my father couldn't even get me to play football!

I grew up in a small homophobic town with homophobic friends, acquaintances and both my brother and my father are homophobic yet I refused to be homophobic and infact spoke out against it at a very young age. 
Where I lived is was cool to kick a football, be racist and hate on fags yet my musical idols were often gay so I felt it as being hypocritical to join the fag hating club knowing that many gay musicians have enhanced my life.


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## BillHicksFan (Oct 7, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> people have a right to choose the laws that they are governed by. including defining marriage.



Does that include gay people?





bio-chem said:


> homosexuals have the same rights to *start a family* as a heterosexual. they just don't have the same capability in their chosen relationships



By start a family I mean be able to marry and adopt legally. Adopting some poor kid who has no parents is never a bad thing unless they prove otherwise. They should be judged on how they raise that child up and not on their sexuality. In the case of the original article, that's just pure evil and it should be dealt with accordingly.


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## bio-chem (Oct 7, 2011)

BillHicksFan said:


> Does that include gay people?
> 
> 
> *Does what include gay people? last i checked being gay didn't prevent you from voting*
> ...


.


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## BillHicksFan (Oct 7, 2011)

Its still illegal in my country....


As for people choosing laws, thats just an illusion to make you feel like you have a say. The media and information source manipulate the population's decision like a herd of sheep.

It takes an influencial speaker to really make any changes and be able to sway public opinion.


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## bio-chem (Oct 7, 2011)

BillHicksFan said:


> Its still illegal in my country....
> 
> 
> As for people choosing laws, thats just an illusion to make you feel like you have a say. The media and information source manipulate the population's decision like a herd of sheep.
> ...



so is the population's decision easy to manipulate like a heard of sheep, or does it take an influential speaker to make changes and sway public opinion? you contradict yourself.

In my opinion I think media is the sheep. the media is a joke and gives people what they want to hear, or reports something from a view that their readers want to read it in. if anything media is the sheep


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## BillHicksFan (Oct 8, 2011)

It sounds like a contradiction but it's not. The people in power (not the politicians) make the decisions and they do their best to reinforce these ideas into the consciousness of the people via the information outlets. The media may seem sheep-like however it is a carefully controlled and filtered form of information that has the ability to maintain a division among the people by consistantly pointing out their differences and not their similarities.
It keeps the public divided over trivial matters when there is much larger problems facing the human race that are widely being ignored. 
The last thing the owners of the world want is an enlightened population that is willing to accept one another for who they are. Thats not in their best interest.


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## devindra (Oct 8, 2011)

why not??? some gays can be very loving people.


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## bio-chem (Oct 8, 2011)

BillHicksFan said:


> The last thing the owners of the world want is an enlightened population that is willing to accept one another for who they are. Thats not in their best interest.



people who control the world from behind the scenes? do you also believe Elvis lives?


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## LAM (Oct 8, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> people who control the world from behind the scenes?



like the Bilderberg Group

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3773019.stm


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## bio-chem (Oct 8, 2011)

LAM said:


> like the Bilderberg Group
> 
> BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | Bilderberg: The ultimate conspiracy theory



"Timothy McVeigh was among those who believed the conspiracy theory"


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## DOMS (Oct 8, 2011)




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## LAM (Oct 8, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> "Timothy McVeigh was among those who believed the conspiracy theory"



a lot of people believe in them...conspiracy's MUST involve and illegal activity as the end result.   there is nothing illegal about manipulating many stupid people of various countries into voting for people and polices that are not in there best interests.  how do you think the GOP got the south to buy into right to work laws?  many, many ignorant people...

can you name one logical reason why masters of industry and business from all over the world would meet periodically in secrecy?


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## bio-chem (Oct 8, 2011)

LAM said:


> can you name one logical reason why masters of industry and business from all over the world would meet periodically in secrecy?



gay sex????


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## BillHicksFan (Oct 8, 2011)

Keep sucking it up you two... The official version of the truth is  always correct and anybody who questions anything is a conspiracy nut.


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## BillHicksFan (Oct 8, 2011)

BillHicksFan said:


> The last thing the owners of the world want is an enlightened population that is willing to accept one another for who they are. Thats not in their best interest.





bio-chem said:


> people who control the world from behind the scenes? do you also believe Elvis lives?




The  fact that this method has worked perfectly when its well within the  human race's capacity to accept each other or... ok I'll go ahead and say it, even _love one another, _just shows that this method works well and that's why they incorporate it.

 I know I know, it sounds like a radical concept. The idea of a race uniting and_ working together_ almost sounds Christian-like. 

There's children dying of starvation everyday, there's disease killing  entire nations, wars going on where innocent lives are being slaughtered  of a daily basis and here we are bickering over whether or not two  people who love each other should be allowed to bring an unwanted child  into their lives to love, raise and care for.

An earthquake or a tsunami occurs and the world goes running to help for their own selfish gratification.

How about we attend to the disasters that have been occuring on a daily  basis since well before any of us were even born? No, we just ignore  that stuff and pre-occupy our mind with trivial shit that shouldnt even  be an issue in the first place.


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## SRMFTW (Oct 8, 2011)

homosexualality is a mental disease and they should be committed and no they should not be around children to contaminate there minds


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## bio-chem (Oct 8, 2011)

SRMFTW said:


> homosexualality is a mental disease and they should be committed and no they should not be around children to contaminate there minds



you need to shut the hell up. big people are talking here. the last thing i need in this conversation is someone associating your retarded postings with my point of view


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## troubador (Oct 9, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> people who control the world from behind the scenes? do you also believe Elvis lives?



Leftist movements always require that there is someone powerful and evil who is oppressing the people. If we live in some sort of democracy and are empowered to elect leaders and run for office then the people are responsible. That's a problem for leftists, they can't be responsible for their own oppression so there must be someone behind the scenes promoting evil in the world. You should have asked 'do you also believe in satan?'.


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## BillHicksFan (Oct 10, 2011)

Leftist, rightist, liberal, conservative ect? 
I've never bothered with political labels. This political system has serious flaws within it that any rational person can see through. There's not one political party or mindset which holds the solutions to all of mankind's problems and anybody who really believes that is delusional or simply doesnt care about the most relevant issues.

The human race are only oppressed is we believe that to be true. Reality is, we, as the majority have the power to change the world into a better place for every human being yet most people accept the state of humanity as the norm, as if it couldn't be any other way when infact everything is upside down from a moral perspective using humanity itself as its moral compass.

We have the ability to consistently feed, cloth and educate the entire human population and yet this idealogy isn't represented in any political party whom I am able to vote for?  If this were the case, I'd actually vote. 

If the media and information sources made a similar effort to provoke general awareness in regards to the appalling state of humanity, only then the  people might actually start caring enough to think it worthy of finding a practical solution.

If the rulers of the world sincerely cared about the people whom they rule, these problems would have been dealt with a long time ago and only then we might have had the opportunity to evolve into a more intelligent and human-like race who valued consciousness and awareness in regards to _topics of relevance_.

All of our leaders have consistantly failed us all on so many levels yet most people cannot see it because the system has them completey bluffed. Its no accident that society is set up in such a way. Its been designed to make a minority rich at the cost of countless human lives and for everybody else to simply accept it. A world in which the  most basic of human rights should be regarded as a luxury that only a minority can afford is a world that is driven and manipulated by the most undesirabe and self-destructive traits that humanty is already burdened with.

I take my hat off and I stand in awe at the accomplishment of the owners of this planet. Those evil fucks are ingenious.


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## myCATpowerlifts (Oct 10, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> "Timothy McVeigh was among those who believed the conspiracy theory"



Just because one nut believes doesn't invalidate the sane people who also believe in it.

For example, you're a christian (lol), and there are christians who molest little boys and then cover it up.

So are all christians evil child molesters?
No.

So why do you make a stupid post like this bio-chem?


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