# The female sex drive.



## Ravager (Jun 18, 2011)

Hi girls. 

I have a huge problem because my wife has ZERO sex drive what-so-ever.

I get it once a week, but its on a schedule, and i'm told to 'make it quick' and there is little passion.

Usually she gets into it, but its just not what it used to be, or how it should be.

This started 4 years ago with the birth of my lil' girl.

She is currently on pill birth control, so that may be the cause, but she wont talk to her doc about it.

Sex is VERY important for general health, as it is for relationship health. She is missing out, and as a result so am I.

So, my question to you girls is how often do you desire sex?

And by sex, I don't just mean a rough hammering, lol... I'm talking the whole nine yards, sensual, soft, making-love, pleasing, foreplay etc. 

Thank you.


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## Gena Marie (Jun 18, 2011)

Man that sucks.  Yes sex if very necessary.  Huge stress relived.  I am sure the pressure of being a mom may have something to do with it.  Scheduled sex is no fun.  Been there.  Have you looked into counseling?  Not that you need it, but talking through the problem might help.

I have had my ups and downs over the years with my drive, primarily up.  I would like to have sex at least once a day, if that doesn't happen, if the opportunity presents it's self, I will pleasure myself.  
With that, I am also on "supplements" that totally increase my drive.
Hang in there.  I hope things get better.  
Happy early Fathers day.


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## Ravager (Jun 18, 2011)

Gena Marie said:


> Man that sucks.  Yes sex if very necessary.  Huge stress relived.  I am sure the pressure of being a mom may have something to do with it.  Scheduled sex is no fun.  Been there.  Have you looked into counseling?  Not that you need it, but talking through the problem might help.
> 
> I have had my ups and downs over the years with my drive, primarily up.  I would like to have sex at least once a day, if that doesn't happen, if the opportunity presents it's self, I will pleasure myself.
> With that, I am also on "supplements" that totally increase my drive.
> ...



Thanks GM. 

I think the counseling would be good myself. Have to look into that more.

When I tell her she's starving me for affection, she tells me to go get it from another woman. I havn't, but I think I'm going to. It's never been my style, but I think I'll try to find a friend with benefits.

Doing this may be the beginning of the end, but I can't do this alone anymore, and my life is passing me by in my prime. I'm constantly told that I look good, hot, great, etc from MANY women, almost daily, if not daily, except from my wife. She NEVER even throws me a compliment when I'm ALWAYS the tannest, (I work outside, and melatonan  and usually the most muscular guy around.....

It has zero effect on my wife.

Maybe she just flat-out lost it for me. Which brings me to tears to say, but If its the case, I must let the healing begin and move on with life.

Thanks for the FD wishes. My daughter needs me in her life, and I want to be there everyday for her. I think finding a weekday sex friend who needs similar attention for whatever reason may be the only way to keep my marriage together, however sick that may sound.

She is telling me to do this, and not a one time thing, she's said it consistantly over the span of YEARS. 

I have had feelings for more than one woman in the past and that was HORRIBLE on me, I promised never to do that again. I may be playing with fire on this one, but I only live once, and have so much love and affection to give that it hurts to hold it all in always.


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## niki (Jun 18, 2011)

Dude, that totally sucks. Really.

To answer your question....I think about sex all the time. I desire sex when I am awake and breathing.......libido is ridiculous.....however, when I was unhappy in my marriage, I would go without.......er, on my own, if you catch my drift. It would be interesting to know if she was pleasuring herself, because that would indicate libido and issues somewhere else....

And, fwiw, the whole lovemaking thing? Highly overrated in my book. I
LIKE quickies......I hit orgasm far more easily if my brain doesn't have time to catch up with my body.

And hormones matter.....My drive is insatiable before/during ovulation. I tried birth control pills when I was younger, and after 3 types or so I gave up. They made me even bitchier than usual. It wasn't worth it. Childbirth can DEFINITELY mess with your hormones as well as just having a small child around.

On the friends with benefits thing......lots of guys cheat on their wives, sounds like you aren't the type, if you've had permission for years (eek)and haven't jumped yet. Sex is an expected part of a marriage relationship. She seems to have abandoned you. If she is unwilling to get checked out by a doc, unwilling to do therapy or counseling, and refuses to engage - do you really think you can pick up a friend on the side (one who actually responds to you) who you won't get emotionally attached to? 

No offense....oh god....but, are you sure it's her? I mean, sure, so you are attractive physically - I got that. No problem. Women usually aren't as visual as men. They need to have their emotional needs met to be able to respond sexually...(well, most women anyway) Also, are you selfish in bed - DON'T answer that, lol! Just something to think about. I don't want to hear about your technique, but a little research on your part maybe in order.......or not....only you would know.

And dude, YOU asked.....lol...sorry, but wanted to give you a thorough answer.  Just because a woman is resistant doesn't mean she doesn't have a libido.......


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## Built (Jun 18, 2011)

I'm with niki - I like quickies, too. I'm on transdermal test and not on the pill, so I pretty much want it all the time. Hubby's on HRT, he wants it more than I do. 

Your wife has problems. You can't fix 'em, but you can fix yours. Go get some counseling, figure out what you need to do, then do it. As you said, life's too short. 

Good luck.


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## Ravager (Jun 18, 2011)

She is very busy with school (about to graduate) and start a career in culinary arts. She is a fantastic cook, and I'm glad that she found her passion and she is looking forward to getting a job and contributing financially.

99% sure she is not self-pleasuring.

She is busy with school, and my house is hectic with a 4 year old running around.

I've mentioned to her many times its not healthy and/or normal to have zero sex drive, and she never denies it. Pretty sure she herself told me its been zero since the kid.

She could really benefit from the stress relief, as could I.

Not selfish in bed, if anything, the opposite.

Nice guys finish last.... A part of me wishes I could use women and treat them as a tool for sex. I'm also 99% sure I'd get emotionally attached to a friend w/bennies....

I have always kept sex in the same part of my mind/heart as love. Perhaps I should reconsider.

I appreciate the reply Niki.


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## Built (Jun 18, 2011)

Will she put out if you need it, if she's not in the mood? Hubby and I do that; our drives don't always correspond, sometimes he wants it more often than I do so I just aaah "deactivate" him and we both get on with our day.  It's not like it's a miserable task - sometimes I'm into it, sometimes I'm not, but I'm not about to send him out into the world wanting more! I mean, I'll make him a steak if he's hungry and I'm not. It's the same thing, really.


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## niki (Jun 18, 2011)

You are most welcome.

I too, am finishing school.  A very demanding, accelerated nursing program. If anything, it has increased my drive, not diminished it.  As you mentioned, most likely due to the need for stress relief.  More likely her issues are due to hormonal changes brought about by pregnancy.  She needs to see a doc.

As far as her admitting the zero drive, does she truly understand your dilemma?  That, for you, sex IS emotional and you are likely to develop this type of attachment with another woman if you seek sexual fullfillment elsewhere?  If she is under the assumption that you, as a guy, ARE able to separate sex from emotions, this may bring the situation into a whole new light for her.  Or, if it doesn't matter to her, might be time to seriously consider why you are still together.....(not stating that lightly)

And as far as keeping sex in the same part of your heart and mind as love?  Hate to say it, but not so sure this is something you can reconsider.  Might be more of a personality thing.  Sure, it's painful - and it has its costs, but if it is who you are - then to sacrifice it for ANYONE would be dishonorable.  And if you tried, it would only be yourself you'd be hurting.  I am pretty damn sure you are worth preserving. 

Nice guys do finish last - read the book I suggested in the other thread.  It might help with the wife, contrary to everything the book is about - if you pick up on the themes and theories.


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## Ravager (Jun 18, 2011)

Built said:


> Will she put out if you need it, if she's not in the mood? Hubby and I do that; our drives don't always correspond, sometimes he wants it more often than I do so I just aaah "deactivate" him and we both get on with our day.  It's not like it's a miserable task - sometimes I'm into it, sometimes I'm not, but I'm not about to send him out into the world wanting more! I mean, I'll make him a steak if he's hungry and I'm not. It's the same thing, really.



Absolutely will not. She'll fight instantly if I even bring it up. I can't even get a hug out of her. I ask her for a hug/kiss goodnight and she says I just gave you one this morning, when in fact she didn't I hugged her and she just stands there and half turns to the side like I'm repulsive. I can't remember the last time she actually put her arms around me and squeezed.

She's not the smartest person in the world. I don't think she 'thinks about how she thinks' type of thought. I doubt she thinks of situations from opposing angles, forcing herself to think about other angles. Devils advocate type stuff. 

Which is fine, its not her fault and I don't hold it against her. 

She used to have sex if not in the mood,  and a few minutes into it she'd be into it, but now "I just want to be left alone, go find someone else if I'm not making you happy". .... 

So tonights my magic night. After the little one goes to sleep she'll say, "Are you ready? Make it quick". Then when we get into bed she'll say "Make it quick, not some long drawn out thing." as she lays there motionless on her back.

We get along good, and have supper together everynight and raise our daughter the best we can together. She's just very selfish and will not do anything short of my one night a week planned event to try to make me happy. I know its not too hard to hug your spouse. 

... geeze I thought talking about this would help, but seeing my reality in writing is actually quite painful. Perhaps this is what I needed.


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## M4A3 (Jun 18, 2011)

Built said:


> Will she put out if you need it, if she's not in the mood? Hubby and I do that; our drives don't always correspond, sometimes he wants it more often than I do so I just aaah "deactivate" him and we both get on with our day.  It's not like it's a miserable task - sometimes I'm into it, sometimes I'm not, but I'm not about to send him out into the world wanting more! I mean, I'll make him a steak if he's hungry and I'm not. It's the same thing, really.



Your husband is a lucky dude. Sex and steak on tap. What more could a man want. LOL!


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## Ravager (Jun 18, 2011)

I've tested the water on the find someone else comments before too.

I've said, I don't want a hooker.

She replies, I didn't say a hooker, you're an attractive man, I'm sure girls look at you all the time, go be with one of them. So I say why would rather break up the family than put forth a little effort to make your husband happy, and without a doubt yourself too.... To which she never has an answer, but nothing 'clicks' and as a result nothing changes.


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## M4A3 (Jun 18, 2011)

Ravager said:


> Absolutely will not. She'll fight instantly if I even bring it up. I can't even get a hug out of her. I ask her for a hug/kiss goodnight and she says I just gave you one this morning, when in fact she didn't I hugged her and she just stands there and half turns to the side like I'm repulsive. I can't remember the last time she actually put her arms around me and squeezed.
> 
> She's not the smartest person in the world. I don't think she 'thinks about how she thinks' type of thought. I doubt she thinks of situations from opposing angles, forcing herself to think about other angles. Devils advocate type stuff.
> 
> ...



Was she always like this? Before kids and before you were married?

If she wasn't, I'm sorry to say it, but it sounds like she doesn't love you anymore. 

Man, I think you might be getting used here. Maybe she's just biding her time, giving you the bare minimum to keep you quiet, until she is done with school so she can leave you? Sounds like she can't do it right now because you're supporting her.

Sorry bro.

She also might be fucking someone else; that could be why she has no problems with you getting some action on the side.


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## Ravager (Jun 18, 2011)

M4A3 said:


> Was she always like this? Before kids and before you were married?
> 
> If she wasn't, I'm sorry to say it, but it sounds like she doesn't love you anymore.
> 
> ...



We used to have sex and party all the time. I quit drinking 4 years ago, and she barely drinks now, so we've both changed a bit.

I think you are right about getting used. I've thought it before. I'd rather the mother of my child be educated and have a decent job so If this is the case I don't mind too much. My daughter will only benefit from this. 

I do tell her that if she doesn't love me, then don't tell me she does, but maybe she wont so I don't leave her high and dry.

Why the hell do people say vows and get married if they aren't going to do what it takes to make it work? I would have found someone who wants a life partner/best friend to have a family with instead of this asshole who not only wasted many years of life, but the cost having a child with her has just begun. 

I will not be a weekend warrior father, if we separate I will get joint custody. 

I wish I had more money so I could get an apartment just to try separation. Give her space for a while. But I don't, and it would just end up being a very quiet lonely place without my family.

It burns me get used, it hurts. But if its better for my daughter in the long run I'm alright with that, as that is my top priority.

She has no time and pretty sure no interest in sex with anyone else. (Anyone even). 99% sure she's not cheating on me. The only reason I don't say 100% is I leave myself 1% chance of totally misreading signs, and being mislead.


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## Built (Jun 18, 2011)

M4A3 said:


> Was she always like this? Before kids and before you were married?
> 
> If she wasn't, I'm sorry to say it, but it sounds like she doesn't love you anymore.
> 
> ...



Or she's too much of a coward to leave; she wants YOU to leave so YOU'RE the asshole. 



			
				M4A3 said:
			
		

> Your husband is a lucky dude. Sex and steak on tap. What more could a man want. LOL!



Hubby says it's why he no longer has any friends.


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## Ravager (Jun 18, 2011)

I'm very close to giving her my ring and telling her to give it back to me when she's ready to treat me like a husband again.

However, I think that is misleading to all the other women that I interact with throughout the day.

Last thing I want is some other girl falling in love with me thinking I'm single.


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## Built (Jun 18, 2011)

Move out. A trial separation might do you both a world of good. When is school over for her?


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## Ravager (Jun 18, 2011)

Built said:


> Move out. A trial separation might do you both a world of good. When is school over for her?



2 weeks she graduates....

I'd love to try a trial separation, but I can't afford a 2nd rent, and don't want to live with family or friends.

I think I may look into a monthly / weekly rental agreement hotel type thing. I think a trial separation may help.


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## Built (Jun 18, 2011)

Find a basement suite; you can probably find one in your hood.


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## Ravager (Jun 18, 2011)

Built said:


> Find a basement suite; you can probably find one in your hood.



Good idea.

BTW, I just got the 'make it quick, were NOT doing a long drawn out thing last last week'.....

what a joke.

Must be mad at herself for last week because she came a few times....


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## Built (Jun 18, 2011)

Turn her down.


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## Ravager (Jun 18, 2011)

Built said:


> Turn her down.




As much as I would like to,
There is NO WAY i'm going another week without sex!!!


I think It will be alot rougher and less personal sex than usual. Maybe I'll make her feel used instead of loved at the end. I'm looking forward to this!


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## independent (Jun 18, 2011)

Ravager said:


> As much as I would like to,
> There is NO WAY i'm going another week without sex!!!
> 
> 
> I think It will be alot rougher and less personal sex than usual. Maybe I'll make her feel used instead of loved at the end. I'm looking forward to this!



I would rather masturbate.


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## Ravager (Jun 18, 2011)

You know what, she's about to get grunge fucked.

Nice guys finish last... I may still finish last, but I'm not going to be nice about it.

Maybe its what she needs, perhaps even wants?

Why do I give a fuck about what she needs or wants?  This bitch is about to get grunge fucked!


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## independent (Jun 18, 2011)

Please report back.


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## Retlaw (Jun 18, 2011)

Gena Marie said:


> Man that sucks.  Yes sex if very necessary.  Huge stress relived.  I am sure the pressure of being a mom may have something to do with it.  Scheduled sex is no fun.  Been there.  Have you looked into counseling?  Not that you need it, but talking through the problem might help.
> 
> I have had my ups and downs over the years with my drive, primarily up.  I would like to have sex at least once a day, if that doesn't happen, if the opportunity presents it's self, I will pleasure myself.
> With that, I am also on "supplements" that totally increase my drive.
> ...



 I will pleasure myself.


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## niki (Jun 18, 2011)

Ravager said:


> As much as I would like to,
> There is NO WAY i'm going another week without sex!!!
> 
> 
> I think It will be alot rougher and less personal sex than usual. Maybe I'll make her feel used instead of loved at the end. I'm looking forward to this!


 


If you can't take Built's advice to turn her down - (thus proving you aren't a beggar and don't need 'pity sex').......and she doesn't care - fuck her any damn way you like.  

I have not a clue what 'grunge-fucked' means......but if you think rougher and less personal is a bad thing.......heh.....

And I agree with Bigmoe - now my curiosity is, uh, aroused?


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## Built (Jun 18, 2011)

niki said:


> if you think rougher and less personal is a bad thing.......heh.....
> 
> ...now my curiosity is, uh, aroused?



No kidding - he had me at "rougher"!


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## Muscle_Girl (Jun 18, 2011)

Yikes.. has anyone taken a step back and thought maybe its a mental issue she has? You all are easy to bash her, but you don't know the whole story.

Ravager, you describe your wife as the "not as bright" type openly on the internet, maybe its possible some of that comes off and she senses it.

Maybe she doesn't feel special anymore.. maybe she is depressed. Maybe she is stressed the fuck out with a child and concentrating on school. Not to mention if its her last two weeks, finals are happening. When was the last time you did something super special for her.. without the expectation of something sexual to follow. Have you been working out lately, and she doesn't? Is she a bigger person? She obviously feels like she doesn't deserve you, and that could be making her push you away.

When was the last time you lit up some candles to surprise her? Drew a bath for her? Gave her a full body massage that didn't lead to sex? Made her dinner? Took her out for a nice dinner? Plainly looked in her eyes with a smile and told her she was beautiful. How often do you two spend time together alone, without your child?

You don't want to give up this easily, especially with a child between you.


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## Built (Jun 18, 2011)

^ The voice of reason.


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## Glycomann (Jun 18, 2011)

I don't know if I'll be much help here but I'll try.  I've been married for28 years.  Marriage is a strange beast. Sexual activity goes up and down.  My wife and I have had periods 20 years into our marriage when we were all over each other all the time.  and then there were times when she was not that interested.  Life happens.  Kids take priority.  There are stresses and worries.  A lot of women internalize pressures more than men do and it effects the intimacy part of life.  Women need more emotional intimacy than men and men are often to busy to offer it up. When you do have relations make it count.  Get more interested especially after the next few days.  That should be natural.  That's what sex does.  It's biochemical. Sometimes the relationship needs a jump start.  I don't mean another woman for a threesome.  I mean put in the extra effort to make her feel significant, appreciated and loved. If you can get the little it of romance in there the whole thing can get jump started.  That's how it works for us sometimes.

A mistress is a bad idea.  I won't go into details but you just don't want your emotions being yanked around. That's true even if the Mrs. never finds out and if she does your current situation will be something you wish you could go back to.


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## Ravager (Jun 19, 2011)

Muscle_Girl said:


> Yikes.. has anyone taken a step back and thought maybe its a mental issue she has? You all are easy to bash her, but you don't know the whole story.
> I am pretty sure she has a mental issue. However, she wont seek help, or even acknowledge the issue, what more can I do? This may be following the same footsteps as her mother here too, so she is little help.
> 
> 
> ...



I don't think I'm giving up easily, but maybe I'm starting to lose it for her too. She did just make me some nice egg sandwiches, but she said she'll make me some because she feels bad that she didn't get me a father's day card. Which is fine. My lil' girl woke me up with a kiss saying Happy Fathers Day Dad! So that's whats important.

A woman needs to be someone deserving to get special attention. I treat her well, but its tough to treat someone like gold who treats you like spit. The other week before sex I told her to please show some passion, that it was very important to me. She looked at me and said "Well, its not to me."

I said thats like spitting in my face. Well, she realized she hurt me and saved it for ammo next time she wanted to be a bitch she through it back in my face.

Thanks for the reply. MG and everyone else.

Oh yeah, She's about 100lbs, Size 0 pants, little petite thing, about 4'11. She snapped back from the kid with fantastic results, zero stretch-marks, and looks fantastic. Which I do tell her all the time.


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## Ravager (Jun 19, 2011)

Built said:


> No kidding - he had me at "rougher"!





niki said:


> If you can't take Built's advice to turn her down - (thus proving you aren't a beggar and don't need 'pity sex').......and she doesn't care - fuck her any damn way you like.
> 
> I have not a clue what 'grunge-fucked' means......but if you think rougher and less personal is a bad thing.......heh.....
> 
> And I agree with Bigmoe - now my curiosity is, uh, aroused?




I have a lot to learn about women it seems, or perhaps I'm just with the wrong one. Rough, no strings-attached sex the way to go?? Why was I raised with such morals and respect for women????

When she walked into the bedroom I walked up to her and tried to be passionate like the movies, taking her clothes off and 'Making it quick' as she requests. She freaked out that I was being too aggressive and scaring her. I said WTF do you want me to do, lay in bed naked and wait for you to climb in alongside and do the same routine over and over again? Not exactly the best foreplay. It's almost if she tries to start a fight right before sex in hopes to wake up the lil one, or ruin the mood.

Anyhow, the sex was as good as I can make it by myself, she just lays there and I have to tell her to kiss my neck and stuff. I tell her it will make it faster if she seems to be into it. Even when shes on top she just lays on top of me and I pretty much have to do all the work on that angle too. She thinks if sex lasts 30 minutes that there is a problem with my unit working.??? 30 MINUTES???? We used to have sex for hours!!!!! 

So It ended up being a good ol' fashion hammering, lol. She didn't show any interest in cuming, and told me not to wait for her, she wont cum, and just get it over with. For those who like the rough sex visual, you have it, laying on her back getting dripped on and hammered! Every now and again I'd roll it over and drive it in balls deep from behind. Slowly pushing deep, as it seems to hurt her if I ram her hard like this, so as much as I wanted to grunge fuck her, I couldn't fully.

She was super wet if that means anything or not.


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## Muscle_Girl (Jun 19, 2011)

People who are experiencing depression won't come out and say it as easily. I suggest you research and maybe start bringing non-medication things to the table to help her bounce back. Going to the doctor means admitting something is wrong, not to mention they push their bullshit drugs with a meelion side effects. Also, if this has been happening since the birth of your child, I would look further into Postpartum Depression - it seems to be a lot more serious than people think. It could have been what kicked off her blues and she hasn't been able to climb back out.

It seems to be all about the sex for you. Women are completely different creatures, its all about whats NOT in the bedroom that is sex drive. You have to realize, while all the women who have replied to this thread are great, they are training - their sex drive isn't the norm for women who aren't active and on supps (damn rabbits). Its MENTAL for women, if she is depressed, of course she won't be eager. Its just as much mental for women as it is physical for men. I once read, if a woman has a negative thought (like a fight) up to 24 hours before a sexual activity, it will be difficult for her to focus on an orgasm, let alone be in the mood.

If the mother of your child is undeserving of simple gestures of kindness, then you are right.. it may be too late. The fact that you look at it this way is affecting your outlook on her as a whole. Marriage isn't easy, it takes work, and the moment you stop putting in that effort, of course it will collapse. Now, when that effort isn't returned to you, yea it hurts.. but have you told her? I am not talking SEX here, I am talking about the other things that you require she is unable or doesn't do (nice gestures, subtle touches, pet names, compliments).

You are probably at that point where she feels any good gesture you give is only an attempt for sex. I suggest you change it up, plan an evening, a day, a weekend -- and DON'T expect sex, don't push her for sex.. let her feel good mentally. Maybe she needs a reminder that it isn't just sex between you two anymore.


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## independent (Jun 19, 2011)

Glycomann said:


> I don't know if I'll be much help here but I'll try.  I've been married for28 years.  Marriage is a strange beast. Sexual activity goes up and down.  My wife and I have had periods 20 years into our marriage when we were all over each other all the time.  and then there were times when she was not that interested.  Life happens.  Kids take priority.  There are stresses and worries.  A lot of women internalize pressures more than men do and it effects the intimacy part of life.  Women need more emotional intimacy than men and men are often to busy to offer it up. When you do have relations make it count.  Get more interested especially after the next few days.  That should be natural.  That's what sex does.  It's biochemical. Sometimes the relationship needs a jump start.  I don't mean another woman for a threesome.  I mean put in the extra effort to make her feel significant, appreciated and loved. If you can get the little it of romance in there the whole thing can get jump started.  That's how it works for us sometimes.
> 
> A mistress is a bad idea.  I won't go into details but you just don't want your emotions being yanked around. That's true even if the Mrs. never finds out and if she does your current situation will be something you wish you could go back to.



Excellent post. 



Ravager said:


> She was super wet if that means anything or not.



This is interesting.  A woman who isnt turned on doesnt usually get wet. IMHO you need to tell her that you guys have to fix your issues otherwise divorce will fix it.  Theres no reason to be miserable. Also dont worry about your daughter, if youre a good father she will be fine. Just dont wait to divorce when shes a teen, thats when trouble could start.


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## Chubby (Jun 19, 2011)

Leave her alone. You are just mad because your sexual desire is not met. There is nothing wrong with her. She must be going through tough times because of school and other stressful things. If you can help her get through this tough times then help her. Otherwise don't stress her more by making feel like she owes you sex.
You can make her life less stressful by doing followings:
1. Help with kid.
2. Do house works 
3. Don't make her feel like something is wrong with her.
4. Let her know that her well being is more important to you than your sexual need.
5.  Give her Suntheanine.
Can you think of more?


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## niki (Jun 19, 2011)

Ravager said:


> I have a lot to learn about women it seems, or perhaps I'm just with the wrong one. Rough, no strings-attached sex the way to go?? Why was I raised with such morals and respect for women????
> 
> She was super wet if that means anything or not.


 
Why would rough sex preclude respect and morals?  Seriously?  I don't get it.

And the super wet comment is intriguing.  SOMETHING is working....that's just strange - I mean, is she holding herself back from you or what?  

And fwiw - I'm not on supplements, I just work out.  I'm an oddity.  Both of my parents had higher libidos, so it's probably genetic.....

I do agree with Musclegirl on the post partum depression - it really seems that it all originated with the birth of your daughter - I think she needs to get bloodwork done and see a doc.  If she won't - it's been four years.  You obviously are both suffering in your own individual ways.  You both have some decisions to make.


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## Little Wing (Jun 19, 2011)

hmmm. i didn't read every post but i noticed something big. you told us YOU are attractive you never said she is. maybe this is about her feeling like she excites you not just you want sex but want HER.


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## independent (Jun 19, 2011)

Ravager said:


> Oh yeah, She's about 100lbs, Size 0 pants, little petite thing, about 4'11. She snapped back from the kid with fantastic results, zero stretch-marks, and looks fantastic. Which I do tell her all the time.




Little wing^^^


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## Built (Jun 19, 2011)

Ravager said:


> I have a lot to learn about women it seems, or perhaps I'm just with the wrong one. Rough, no strings-attached sex the way to go?? Why was I raised with such morals and respect for women????





niki said:


> Why would rough sex preclude respect and morals?  Seriously?  I don't get it.



Indeed. I love a sexually aggressive man. Clearly I'm not the only one. When a man comes on to me like that, it makes me feel attractive and to a woman, feeling attractive does the same thing that feeling sexually dominant does to a man. It's like catnip.

Musclegirl touched on something significant though - something that reminded me of a problem that ultimately contributed to the breakdown of a very significant relationship in my life. The man I was living with would only ever touch me for sex. No hugs, no cuddles, no affection whatsoever unless it was directly linked with sex. I realize men get turned on easily and it's not exactly upsetting when hubby gives me a hug, shoves me into the wall and grinds an obvious erection into me while we kiss - but it doesn't always lead to sex, right? Sometimes, we're busy, running out the door to work, it's not going to happen but the affection and the attraction is still there. Or just cuddling on the sofa while watching TV. Mind you, we fuck a lot, so it's not like taunting a starving man with a steak, but still, affection and sex only overlap with us; they don't always coincide. And sometime, the sex isn't exactly affectionate. That's good too. 

The mental health issues are huge though. And none of this is going to go away if a) she doesn't get some help and b) YOU don't get some help. She's not going to respond well, now, to a man whom she perceives to be only after her for sex. I personally think you having sex with her last night was a bad idea. Next time if she doesn't respond to you, just turn her down. She needs to know what that feels like, and it will also let her know you have some respect for yourself as well. 

Go get some counseling. If she won't go, that doesn't matter. You need the help. She may follow eventually, but you can only fix yourself - and even that one's hard. It's impossible to fix someone else. 

Good luck.


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## Little Wing (Jun 19, 2011)

bigmoe65 said:


> Little wing^^^



hmmmm.... well then. 

if a man treated me that way i would leave. i mean the way she is  treating you. i think it is a mistake to teach kids how it's supposedly  the right thing to stay in a bad relationship. would you want your child to stay for years with an ice cold rejecting partner that won't even offer them willingly the comfort of a simple hug? 

i think you should get  up in the morning monday and tell your woman that this has been going on long enough and you're not going to settle for it anymore. that when you come home tonight  she is going to tell you why she has been like this and tell you how you two can  solve it or you are going to pack your bags and leave THAT night. then do it if she  doesn't. 

she is being like this because you are settling for this. if  it's depression stress etc she can see a dr. but if it's not something she can see a solution starts getting worked on OTHER than you getting your needs met elsewhere you NEED to leave. your kid doesn't need to go through the daddy is getting his needs met elsewhere scenario. i have suffered from  depression and unbelievable stress while raising two kids  alone and i promise you that does not excuse completely ignoring the feelings of your  partner. it does not excuse being cold and cruel and making your partner beg for scraps of affection. you accept the deal by accepting her scraps. Built is right turn her down say no say you want a relationship not a duty fuck. she's doing this because she can. if it's been going on for four years or better it's not the pressures of finals and the path needs to turn or you need to make your own. 

it's nice to say shower her with all these wonderful things make her feel good etc but bleh. if you have to _tell_ someone to kiss your neck in bed etc fuck that noise. that's not love or any kind of sanctuary, shelter from the storm etc _feeling_ a relationship should be and i doubt anyone responding in this thread would put themselves through that for years. you're as alone as you can be already. if she's not going to move toward real change leave her. 

and for the record a man told me once to get what i needed elsewhere. i did and it put him on his knees begging me to not leave and promising to change his ways. he didn't want to lose me but he didn't change either despite some sporadic short term trying on his part cuz that's just how he is sexually. only she can tell you why this is happening and how it can be fixed, we can just guess and offer advice. you need to accept it change it or leave. don't fucking turn to other women because the kid will know it will be used in court etc. that comes after you leave.


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## Ravager (Jun 19, 2011)

Glycomann said:


> I don't know if I'll be much help here but I'll try.  I've been married for28 years.  Marriage is a strange beast. Sexual activity goes up and down.  My wife and I have had periods 20 years into our marriage when we were all over each other all the time.  and then there were times when she was not that interested.  Life happens.  Kids take priority.  There are stresses and worries.  A lot of women internalize pressures more than men do and it effects the intimacy part of life.  Women need more emotional intimacy than men and men are often to busy to offer it up. When you do have relations make it count.  Get more interested especially after the next few days.  That should be natural.  That's what sex does.  It's biochemical. Sometimes the relationship needs a jump start.  I don't mean another woman for a threesome.  I mean put in the extra effort to make her feel significant, appreciated and loved. If you can get the little it of romance in there the whole thing can get jump started.  That's how it works for us sometimes.
> 
> A mistress is a bad idea.  I won't go into details but you just don't want your emotions being yanked around. That's true even if the Mrs. never finds out and if she does your current situation will be something you wish you could go back to.



Great response bro. Thanks.


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## Chubby (Jun 19, 2011)

Maybe she already found someone else, and that's why she is not ineterested in you.


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## Ravager (Jun 19, 2011)

Little Wing said:


> hmmmm.... well then.
> 
> if a man treated me that way i would leave. i mean the way she is  treating you. i think it is a mistake to teach kids how it's supposedly  the right thing to stay in a bad relationship. would you want your child to stay for years with an ice cold rejecting partner that won't even offer them willingly the comfort of a simple hug?
> 
> ...



Another excellent reply that hits home deep. Lots to think about here. Thanks.


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## Ravager (Jun 19, 2011)

Chubby said:


> Leave her alone. You are just mad because your sexual desire is not met. Really? I thought marriage was about compromises, and making your partner happy. Sex is extremely healthy for ANY relationship, and most would say required part. I've been doing all the compromising in the form of going without affection. This pains me. It feels like a ball of choking and can't breath is forming in my lungs and pushing on my stomach. Damn close to physical pain. Words don't capture it. What makes it right for her to hurt me consistantly? This makes me bad?There is nothing wrong with her. She must be going through tough times because of school and other stressful things. If you can help her get through this tough times then help her. Otherwise don't stress her more by making feel like she owes you sex.
> You can make her life less stressful by doing followings:
> 1. Help with kid.
> 2. Do house works
> ...



We seem to have a healthy relationship outside of the lack of affection desire/area. I occupy my daughter 100% from when I get home till she goes to sleep. 

We both do house work, we have our system, and there doesn't seem to be a problem there.

#3, I'm not sure how to talk about a problem with someone without making them feel like something is wrong. I'm the one making all the efforts and keeping any sort of spark from completely fading away and having sex become awkward because its been so long. 

I honestly think that her well being will IMPROVE once her affection issue is resolved. So You may think I'm just trying to feed my sexual needs, but this truly stems from all around affection.

Thanks for your input, and I appreciate your comments, however it does bother me that you choose to remain gender neutral, for whatever that means.


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## Little Wing (Jun 19, 2011)

you need to really talk to her and you need to not accept this anymore. i can tell it's painful. my heart would break laying beside someone i needed to touch me for years and they couldn't, didn't want to, denied me for spite or whatever reason.... i hope you can resolve it but you really will regret just continuing to accept it. a lot of kids with divorced parents do better than kids who watch their parents do some loveless charade for their sake. don't bluff her and let her see it is a bluff. be sure and be ready to act if you make an ultimatum but i honestly would. i would say plain and simple this hurts, i don't deserve this, and we start to fix it here and now or i am leaving. i have been in the lowest places depression can take a person and STILL you do not hurt the people you love. it still feels good to be hugged or hug a person you love. she knows why this is like this. it's time for her to talk to you.


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## keith1569 (Jun 19, 2011)

To some degree the one who cares less in a relationship has the most power 

Sent from my Samsung Infuse 4G


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## Ravager (Jun 19, 2011)

Chubby said:


> Maybe she already found someone else, and that's why she is not ineterested in you.



99% sure she is not. I laugh at myself for being fooled so well and missing any clues and/or signs if this were the case.


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## Little Wing (Jun 19, 2011)

does your child already know there are rules between mommy and daddy. daddy is not allowed to hug mommy, kiss mommy, cuddle mommy. mommy doesn't like daddy to touch her??? kids are aware of everything and she is learning to have a relationship and how it SHOULD be by watching you two. a man touching you is bad even if he loves you and even if he is your husband. not so healthy.


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## Ravager (Jun 19, 2011)

Little Wing said:


> does your child already know there are rules between mommy and daddy. daddy is not allowed to hug mommy, kiss mommy, cuddle mommy. mommy doesn't like daddy to touch her??? kids are aware of everything and she is learning to have a relationship and how it SHOULD be by watching you two. a man touching you is bad even if he loves you and even if he is your husband. not so healthy.



Ouch. 

I don't think so yet.. I sure don't want that for her.


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## Little Wing (Jun 19, 2011)

kids learn things you never know you are teaching them and things you don't ever even say out loud. i asked my daughter when she was in preschool if she wanted a ken doll and she said,"no, men are useless." they know everything going on in their home.


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## CellarDoor (Jun 19, 2011)

I agree with LittleWing and Built were saying. I don't agree with Chubby at all. I'm sorry but for you to be bending everything you want cause she has her goals is just crap. What your wife is doing is extremely emotionally abusive. I don't think some women realize how important sex is to men in a relationship. It's a huge rejection to be turned down for sex. It plays on a man's confidence, it makes them irritable, and depressed. I'm sorry, man, but your wife is a very selfish woman from what I can tell. She knows there is a problem and refuses to take steps to fix it. Then here you are wondering what's wrong with you, why doesn't she want you. If you look at the effects of verbal and even physical abuse on a person I'm willing to bet you are exibiting all the same symptoms.


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## rc771 (Jun 19, 2011)

Hey man (I'm not a girl haha), read about your issue and I wanted to mention something.

My girl is a very interesting person.

Sometimes she would be totally insanely horny like beyond belief and then sometimes she would have these dry spells or times when I could tell she was only doing it for me, which would piss me off.

So I did a little research, (she is on the pill) and it appears that the majority of birth control pills cause a drop in women's test levels, and women need test too for a variety of reasons. 

So just as a type of experiment I got her some Tribulus and she began taking about 600mg daily. 

Incredibly, her sex drive has seemed to have leveled out in a good way, she pretty much wants it more than me now and I'm on a gram of real test hahah. Additionally it has really helped her with her training, significantly hardened up her muscle tone around her whole body, I was genuinely surprised. She says that she feels better now, or more normal.

Might be worth a shot if she is willing...


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## niki (Jun 19, 2011)

Ravager said:


> Ouch.
> 
> I don't think so yet.. I sure don't want that for her.


 
If your little girl is four, it may not be CONSCIOUS thought, but you can bet your ass she is picking up on the body language, non-verbal stuff.  Like 90% of communication is body language......

I have memories of my parents from when I was two and three years old!

As a parent - THIS is what pushed me.  It was difficult (I realize now that's wrong) to do just for my own needs, but throw my boys into the equation and my mind was instantly made up.  

It really is true, that old cliche about not being able to meet anyone else's needs until you've met your own.  I mean, you might be able to make it awhile, but you will eventually burn out.


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## independent (Jun 20, 2011)

Well are you divorced yet?


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## Chubby (Jun 20, 2011)

Sometimes it is good to look at the situation from her eyes too.


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## Muscle_Girl (Jun 20, 2011)

bigmoe65 said:


> This is interesting.  A woman who isnt turned on doesnt usually get wet.



I don't, and probably won't ever understand why guys hold so much value into the fluid production a woman has. Just cause shes wet, doesn't mean she is turned on. Yes, most times she is *physically* turned on, but her mind could be somewhere else.

There are so many contributors to how wet a woman can be at one point or another. Simple things like her diet, hydration, time of the month.. the list goes on.

Correction: I guess I can understand why guys think so highly about it, they translate it onto themselves and how horny it makes them. If a guy is hard as a rock, is it possible for him to mentally not be into it? I would think if his mental state wasn't on par, he would have issue keeping the blood flow going. I am not male, so I don't know.


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## malfeasance (Jun 20, 2011)

CellarDoor said:


> What your wife is doing is extremely emotionally abusive. I don't think some women realize how important sex is to men in a relationship. It's a huge rejection to be turned down for sex. It plays on a man's confidence, it makes them irritable, and depressed. I'm sorry, man, but your wife is a very selfish woman from what I can tell. She knows there is a problem and refuses to take steps to fix it. Then here you are wondering what's wrong with you, why doesn't she want you. If you look at the effects of verbal and even physical abuse on a person I'm willing to bet you are exibiting all the same symptoms.


 
Ravager, pay attention to this post.  CellarDoor is right.

I was in a marriage that sounds exactly the same.  She flipped the crazy switch after having a child.  My child probably thinks all parents live in separate rooms.

Everybody is marveling that your wife was wet - bah!  My ex would come every time - usually fairly quickly - then lay there "Go ahead, you can finish."  We would go for longer than a week - she might tell me no for months.  So what does it matter that she actually liked it when we did it if we went for months without it?  

I kept trying to make things work and burned through my prime years, which is what you wrote that you fear you are doing.  Well, you are.

She will divorce you.  It may not be today, it may not even be this year, but it is coming.  It took my ex more than 9 years to get around to it after she started with her nonsense.  All the while I did everything I could to save the marriage and keep my family together.  Nothing I did mattered, and she basically told me so.  "Things have been great the last 6 months, but I just do not know if I care to work on it anymore," she would say.  Our marriage counselor fired us (that's right, told us not to come back) because she would not do anything he said - and that is after she dragged me there.  I was reluctant to go, but I decided as long as I was there I was going to do what I could.  She refused to work on it after dragging me there.  

By the way - we were great before that - sex all the time.

You might try out marital counseling.  At least that will get the issues out in the open.

Sorry to bear the bad news, but I have been there, done that.  Your situation looks all too familiar to me.


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## independent (Jun 20, 2011)

Muscle_Girl said:


> I don't, and probably won't ever understand why guys hold so much value into the fluid production a woman has. Just cause shes wet, doesn't mean she is turned on. Yes, most times she is *physically* turned on, but her mind could be somewhere else.
> 
> There are so many contributors to how wet a woman can be at one point or another. Simple things like her diet, hydration, time of the month.. the list goes on.
> 
> Correction: I guess I can understand why guys think so highly about it, they translate it onto themselves and how horny it makes them. If a guy is hard as a rock, is it possible for him to mentally not be into it? I would think if his mental state wasn't on par, he would have issue keeping the blood flow going. I am not male, so I don't know.



Good point but woman are very emotional and if she wasnt turned on she wouldnt be as wet as he says. Maybe she was ovulating, who knows. 

Btw, a can can maintain an erection and not be into it. Well at least until he orgasms


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## CellarDoor (Jun 20, 2011)

Chubby said:


> Sometimes it is good to look at the situation from her eyes too.




Your right ^^  It's always good to do that.  I absolutely agree.

But she do the same. How do you think it makes him feel to have her say ok to sex and just lay there?  This man _married_ her, it's not a one night stand.  He wants to have sex with her cause he loves her. I'm sure she makes him feel like he's using her.  Think about what a mind fuck that is.  You feel like your violating your own wife.  

The thing is, he would rather have really bad sex with his wife then fuck a stranger that will participate and probably make him feel like he's worth something. IMO this is a big reason some men cheat on their wives.  Some women refuse sex, make the dude feel absolute crap for even daring to ask.  Then when they do say yes it's nothing but another guilt trip because she is laying there asking r u done yet?  But boys, don't you dare try to get it from someone that is actually interested in you cause then your the asshole. 

I tell ya, I feel sorry for some of you men.


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## Gena Marie (Jun 20, 2011)

WOW! this is a really deep and amazing thread.  I think for the longer term relationships, we have all been through some sort of similar issues.  I know for Rob and I, we have both been on the receiving end of the lack of attention and affection.  I learned a lot from the book "5 Love Languages".  My love language are 2 really, Physical Touch and Words of Affirmation, and Robs feel love by Acts of Service.  I cook his eggs every day and he feels loved.  Weird to me, but to him, it is what he needs.  She is fulfilling your love language, but maybe you aren't fulfilling hers either.  The book is worth a shot.  I didn't ready it until after we separated for a period of time. Better late then never, but now I know   

Hang in there.  Marriage is tough, but can also be the most amazing thing in the world.


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## independent (Jun 20, 2011)

Gena Marie said:


> My love language are 2 really, Physical Touch and Words of Affirmation, and Robs feel love by Acts of Service.



You are exactly like my wife. She needs a hug everyday and me to tell her something special.  For me it doesnt come natural to do that and it has put a strain on our marriage in the past.  Im a moody person, and I tend to keep my emotions to myself. Not healthy for a strong marriage but Im working on it.


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## Gissurjon (Jun 20, 2011)

Muscle_Girl said:


> People who are experiencing depression won't come out and say it as easily...........It seems to be all about the sex for you. Women are completely different creatures, its all about whats NOT in the bedroom that is sex drive. ...... You are probably at that point where she feels any good gesture you give is only an attempt for sex. I suggest you change it up, plan an evening, a day, a weekend -- and DON'T expect sex, don't push her for sex.. let her feel good mentally. Maybe she needs a reminder that it isn't just sex between you two anymore.


 
#1. you are right, they wont just come out and say it but being depressed is one thing. Being flat out mean to your spouse when it comes to his/her emotions is another story. thats called abuse.
#2. how does it seem to be all about sex? he has been giving the permission to have sex with anybody he wants to!! if it was about just getting off he would go do that! why do women say stuff like this "all about sex" ?? if a man refuses to get a job and you say something are you then only with him because of a job?
3# This is a man who does not cheat even with permission, you think he doesnt do those things? hes been starved for years im pretty sure he tried running her a bath already. 



Chubby said:


> Leave her alone. You are just mad because your sexual desire is not met. There is nothing wrong with her. She must be going through tough times because of school and other stressful things. If you can help her get through this tough times then help her. Otherwise don't stress her more by making feel like she owes you sex.
> You can make her life less stressful by doing followings:
> 1. Help with kid.
> 2. Do house works
> ...


 
I get the "stressed out" part but seriously, she says stuff like "i gave you a kiss this morning". A stressed out wife that loves her husband might lose her sex drive but becoming mean when someone tries to express their feelings has nothing to do with workload. 

My man! im sorry for your situation Ive been married for 4 years and have a 2 year old son, me and my wife went through a period where sex drive was non-existing but she never was mean and even apologized and ,what more important, found a way to get better. A woman can lack a sex drive but if she doesnt understand the importance and doesnt want to change it there is no point.

think long and hard but getting out might be better now to minimize the effect it will have on your child, it doesnt get easier as kids get older

and one more thing. Women PLEASE stop doing things for a man in the beginning that you know you wont keep doing after marriage. I know thats not always the case but some of my female friends have admitted to put out "all the goods" to get a man.. then arent willing to do the same to keep him so he leaves and becomes an asshole who is about nothing but sex


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## CellarDoor (Jun 20, 2011)

Gissurjon said:


> #1. you are right, they wont just come out and say it but being depressed is one thing. Being flat out mean to your spouse when it comes to his/her emotions is another story. thats called abuse.
> #2. how does it seem to be all about sex? he has been giving the permission to have sex with anybody he wants to!! if it was about just getting off he would go do that! why do women say stuff like this "all about sex" ?? if a man refuses to get a job and you say something are you then only with him because of a job?
> 3# This is a man who does not cheat even with permission, you think he doesnt do those things? hes been starved for years im pretty sure he tried running her a bath already.
> 
> ...



^^^  This  

Good post


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## Ravager (Jun 20, 2011)

malfeasance said:


> Ravager, pay attention to this post.  CellarDoor is right.
> 
> I was in a marriage that sounds exactly the same.  She flipped the crazy switch after having a child.  My child probably thinks all parents live in separate rooms.
> 
> ...



...Your probably right bro.


Refused counceling. Would not look me in the eye and tell me if she wanted to make this marriage work, but didn't say otherwise either. Just keep saying its all because the lil' one is up her ass always. (and she is) ... 

I'm on borrowed time. Being played for a fool. Or just stressful times for her and I should be supportive?

Figures it takes 2 to make a marriage and you can't even fully count on your wife, who the fuck can you count on?

So - 

I think I wont push any issues until school is over for her.

I will make extra effort to be there graduation and when we go out afterwords I'll be able to see if we are still friends or not. 

We never go out, never do anything really. Kids getting older, we'll have more time together for sure. 

I don't even know what I want anymore.........

*Either way, you ALL have been super helpful, and this has been really great and helpful to me. Also great to get to know you guys.*

If anyone' looking for a Fbuddy who's city just brought home the Stanley Cup, then send me a PM


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## Little Wing (Jun 20, 2011)

i was the most doting of mothers, Tess was always in my arms. that still left plenty of long nights where she slept PLENTY of time for sexcapades. kids are not that big of a barrier to sex or there would not be such a thing as siblings.


she only ever interrupted us once. THAT made us unable to resume sexual activity for aprox 1 week.


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## Ravager (Jun 20, 2011)

CellarDoor said:


> Your right ^^  It's always good to do that.  I absolutely agree.
> 
> But she do the same. How do you think it makes him feel to have her say ok to sex and just lay there?  This man _married_ her, it's not a one night stand.  He wants to have sex with her cause he loves her. I'm sure she makes him feel like he's using her.  Think about what a mind fuck that is.  You feel like your violating your own wife.
> 
> ...


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## Gena Marie (Jun 20, 2011)

bigmoe65 said:


> You are exactly like my wife. She needs a hug everyday and me to tell her something special.  For me it doesnt come natural to do that and it has put a strain on our marriage in the past.  Im a moody person, and I tend to keep my emotions to myself. Not healthy for a strong marriage but Im working on it.



Prince is the same way.  It is hard for him.  He does his best, but I have to remind him from time to time.  Communication is key.


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## Gena Marie (Jun 20, 2011)

Gissurjon said:


> #
> and one more thing. Women PLEASE stop doing things for a man in the beginning that you know you wont keep doing after marriage. I know thats not always the case but some of my female friends have admitted to put out "all the goods" to get a man.. then arent willing to do the same to keep him so he leaves and becomes an asshole who is about nothing but sex



I fully agree.  Boys do the same.  What you do in the beginning to win us over, don't stop.  That is why we fell for you in the 1st place.  
I don't understand those girls who use the poon tang to get a guy, then holds it hostage once she has him, or better yet, use it to get things.  I think that shit is messed up.  I knew a chick like that and I wanted to punch her in the face.  Hell, still do.


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## Muscle_Girl (Jun 20, 2011)

What people do in the beginning of relationships is fake most of the time. They put on a show, do the things they think the other person wants them to do, then eventually get comfortable and resume with their regular routines. Really, the best thing you can do when starting a relationship is to cut the shit and be yourself.. they will find out eventually.

I had a long stretch of time where my ex thought I was withholding sex from him, he would accuse me of it on occasion, joke about it, etc. Looking back, I think I was a little depressed and honestly wasn't into anything sexual, I never thought in my mind to withhold. I think I just have a low sex drive to begin with, and with birth control on top of that, I was numb.. not to mention I had no clue how to tell him what I wanted, so I didn't get much pleasure. Take it from me, not all females have it in their mind: "All he wants is sex, so I'm not gonna give it to him" Sometimes its just a few connecting factors that throw it all out of wack.

I think a lot of men, and society in general, have lead us to believe that they don't need the affection, simple gestures and support that they crave most of the time. And again, society has often made it difficult for men to admit these desires, cause its not "manly". When I was a little younger, I was shocked to realize that guys needed these things. But, you can't know what they need if they can't describe it to you.. everyones different.


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## Built (Jun 20, 2011)

Chris Rock on sex. 






YouTube Video











Go to 6:40

"If we like it, it's on the menu"


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## Darkcity (Jun 20, 2011)

CellarDoor said:


> Your right ^^  It's always good to do that.  I absolutely agree.
> 
> But she do the same. How do you think it makes him feel to have her say ok to sex and just lay there?  This man _married_ her, it's not a one night stand.  He wants to have sex with her cause he loves her. I'm sure she makes him feel like he's using her.  Think about what a mind fuck that is.  You feel like your violating your own wife.
> 
> ...


WOW you are right on point with that one I deal with the same shit as this man. Not my thread but this has made my day reading it and i wish she could understand this. thnx


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## Ravager (Jun 21, 2011)

Jerked, tan and Desirable, I sweat confidence.

Here is my plan.

I was able to get some info out of her, and she bringing up some fighting words from a month ago fight.... I guess you gals really do hold on to this crap..

Anyhow, I sinscerely apologized to her, told her I'm sorry, and I want to make her happy not hurt her. 

I am going to make a huge effort to become 'friends' with her again, and go out a little more often.

I want to save my marriage if its possible.

If my efforts fail, and it fails, at least I know I did everything in my power, and some things you can't do alone.

Havn't made up my mind yet on the fuckbuddy. I still want one, however i'm not that aggresive about it in the mean time. I think I have a few leads, but just knowing the possiblility is close, seems to be enough for me at this time. If I run into someone who wants lust for me, or who wont let me walk away too easily, I may be in for trouble.

But I'm being the selector. If I'm the selected one, I'm not sure I can say no.... We will find out.

HOWEVER, I am going to tell the wife that I'm all set with that Joke pity sex. I'm better than that by a long shot. In the illogical female mind (at least the ones like my wifes) its probably making her hate me, instead of bringing her love/pleasure, so I don't need crap sex that badly. Of course its only Monday. I seem to feel much differently on Friday.....Maybe If I plan on refusing it, instead of waiting for it, it may be different.


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## niki (Jun 21, 2011)

Jerked, tan and Desirable, I sweat confidence.

Here is my plan.

I was able to get some info out of her, and she bringing up some fighting words from a month ago fight.... I guess you gals really do hold on to this crap..

Ugh..........

Anyhow, I sinscerely apologized to her, told her I'm sorry, and I want to make her happy not hurt her. 

Kudos.


I am going to make a huge effort to become 'friends' with her again, and go out a little more often.

I want to save my marriage if its possible.

Kudos, again.

If my efforts fail, and it fails, at least I know I did everything in my power, and some things you can't do alone.

Exactly. It is what you are willing and able to live with.

Havn't made up my mind yet on the fuckbuddy. I still want one, however i'm not that aggresive about it in the mean time. I think I have a few leads, but just knowing the possiblility is close, seems to be enough for me at this time. If I run into someone who wants lust for me, or who wont let me walk away too easily, I may be in for trouble.

I understand. And I hope the possibility IS enough for you while you figure all of this out and give your marriage the best possible chance. 'Cuz I'm not real sure the fuckbuddy thing will play out the way she seems to think it will......and you don't want to be the asshole 'cuz that's the way it would look, despite reality.

But I'm being the selector. If I'm the selected one, I'm not sure I can say no.... We will find out.

That ain't being the selector, jes' sayin'....

HOWEVER, I am going to tell the wife that I'm all set with that Joke pity sex. I'm better than that by a long shot. In the illogical female mind (at least the ones like my wifes) its probably making her hate me, instead of bringing her love/pleasure, so I don't need crap sex that badly.

Bravo! But be sure to tell her WHY......open up. Be emotionally vulnerable and express to her, the way you have to US, what it means to you, what it does to you when she acts like that or doesn't respond. Explain that a fuckbuddy who responds to you will rapidly replace her in your heart emotionally, because you aren't THAT guy who can seperate biology/emotions.........and that it is your dearest desire for HER and her only to be that for you.

Of course its only Monday. I seem to feel much differently on Friday.....Maybe If I plan on refusing it, instead of waiting for it, it may be different.

LOL! I hear you, man. I hear you. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but I hope your plans help. It seems horribly unfair for you to have to go this route - especially if it means less sex, even crap sex, for you. Makes a fuckbuddy all the more logical. But if saving your marriage IS truly your goal, you are gonna have to man up in the face of abstinence and rejection for your final, last ditch efforts. Entertaining both ideas at once is inefficient and counterproductive. 

What I mean here, is you can't really determine or know her MOTIVES in suggesting the fuckbuddy.....despite what she's said to you about it. And to do so would jeopardize your marriage-saving efforts, IMO. If you are gonna end it, end it like the man you are - honestly, above board, cards on the table. You've taken the pain of rejection this long - a little longer to be completely honest with her about your needs and expectations for the future of your marriage should be within your range.


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## Ramrod11 (Jun 24, 2011)

bigmoe65 said:


> You are exactly like my wife. She needs a hug everyday and me to tell her something special.  For me it doesnt come natural to do that and it has put a strain on our marriage in the past.  Im a moody person, and *I tend to keep my emotions to myself*. Not healthy for a strong marriage but Im working on it.


Most men do...


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## Muscle_Girl (Jun 27, 2011)

So, hows it going so far? I wanted to reply before about your decisions to try and work on it, but I didn't fully agree with one thing you had said. The whole "committed to doing anything and everything" and "still keeping my eyes peeled for alternatives" was a little funky.

Anyway, keep us updated with how things come along.


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## Gentleman (Jun 27, 2011)

Surprisingly after 70+ posts this thread remains intriguing.


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## Ravager (Jun 28, 2011)

Muscle_Girl said:


> So, hows it going so far? I wanted to reply before about your decisions to try and work on it, but I didn't fully agree with one thing you had said. The whole "committed to doing anything and everything" and "still keeping my eyes peeled for alternatives" was a little funky.
> 
> Anyway, keep us updated with how things come along.



Sure!

Last Thursday i told her I don't want her sex anymore. I told her she must earn the right to be with me, just as much as I have to, to be with her. 

Well, last Friday was her graduation. It was nice, and we went to a nice restaurant afterwards, and then to an after party, where she got drunk and I had to babysit a little bit (I don't drink). NO big deal, I pulled her out of there around midnight as the party was really lame to anyone that wasn't drunk. Went home and I listened to her talk for about 3-4 hours, rubbing her neck, back, and just talking. - No pressure for sex. Ended up just going to bed, the little one kept waking up, so not sure if things would have been different if not, but she was drunk anyhow, but no return affection.


Sat Night, I tried to lay in bed with her to go to sleep, but I was burning inside, because I thought I got through to her on Friday. Nope, zero affection towards me all day or night.  Which is fine, I didn't want her lame ass sex anyhow. I got all choked up and told her I really feel like there is no love here for me. She didn't respond to watching her husband be upset at all. Told me I'm acting like a 5 year old.... Bitch.

Sunday the kid wanted to sleep in her own room (Which is a HUGE problem that she sleeps on the floor in our bedroom, but thats another issue). She said, " THIS DOESN't MEAN YOU're GOING TO BUG ME TONIGHT". I said, I TOLD YOU I DON't WANT YOUR SEX. When you're ready to be close to me, then fine, until then, I don't expect, or want that lame ass, just lay there, passionless, loveless sex.

Burning inside, I wanted to punch this asshole in the face. Of course I didn't. Then I said, You know what, Here's my wedding ring. Give it back to me when you're ready to treat me like a husband again. She said, Thats not going to hurt me. I don't care if you never wear it again......... I said its not my intention now, or EVER to hurt you. I want to make you happy, not hurt you. You're the one who is hurting me. I've never taken my ring off for 7 1/2 years. ....

Came home Monday from work, and nothing was changed. Normal talking turned quickly to arguing, so I told her I don't want anything to do with her until she apologizes to me. When she's ready to be my wife again, put the ring back on my hand....... More bickering, everything is always my fault. I'm the only one here trying to be nice and ignore the asshole comments and save this shitty marriage.

So I went out. For the first time in 7 years, with no wedding ring on. Hit this bar where I know a few of the bartenders, and the owners daughter (all women). 

Epiphany - Something has changed withing the last year. I've always been good looking, but I'm hot now. Super shart clean-cut haircut from my lovely hairdressor (who gave me her number), Tan as hell from MT2, and Working in the summer heat and lack of appetite (still working out 5 days a week of course), I'm cutting fast and hard. Looking good. Shedding BF like nobodys business, and Lean gaining muscle. I get stared at. Women can't resist looking. I've always looked, but now when I look, They are usually alraedy looking at me, so I bust them peeking instead of them busting me. I'm aging like a fine wine  Narcissistic rant over now. 

Anyhow, 

In the words of many women, I'm gorgeous. At her grad party thing all the women where all over me, even telling my wife how gorgeous I am, and would love to take me home. I was using the skills I gained from THE GAME book you recommended to me, and I could make them stutter, fluster, and lose thought by looking into their eyes.... 

So at the Bar, I was talking to This bartender, Blond, 8 with a very full, but very beautiful body. A pool tournament started, so I joined in. We had a random partner, mine was good. We ended up never losing a game, and won the pot. So I left with more cash then I came with after being there for 6 hours.

So the bartender is asking me all sorts of questions about me, responding to my game of course. Asked me about kids, I said one, and she said what happened? What do you mean, she said with your Ex. I wasn't prepared for that, so I said something, but don't remember. It was a half lie.

The DAMN GOOD GUY inside me, which I'm trying so hard to get rid of, made me correct the lie and tell her I'm still married in a dead relationship. 

After the pool tourney was over, everyone left, she gave me her number, told me to call her anytime I want, but She wont get involved with a married guy. However, this is probably just a line to make her feel like she tried to do the morally correct thing. I think I could have made her eat those words, but I didn't push it.  The entire night talking to her was more of a first date feel, she told me about all her relationships, and some pretty deep stuff. Kind of odd. Definately a strong attraction between us..... We played some music on the jukebox thing together, and then I left, she told me to keep in touch, and she hopes the best for me.

Now this other girl there, said I'm so happy to see you here! I was going to call you, but I don't have your number! (Hint, hint)....

Needless to say, Women treat me very well, except for my wife, ironically.

So now my heads full of confidence, and It feels good to be treated nicely, and to be shown affection.... duh....

I go home and slip into bed, and she starts............................ You can't keep going out like this, The Kid keeps asking where you are............

What you'd rather argue in front of her?

I said, TELL ME IF THIS IS OVER, SO I CAN MOVE ON.

No answer.

I said, You know what, you've been using me for years, and I'm better than that. It took me a while to catch on, or to believe it, but Now I see it clear as day (thanks to You guys here at IM!!!). 

Now she says she loves me, and doesn't want it to be over. I said your words mean shit, your actions speak alot more truth. When you're ready to be my wife again, apologize and put the ring back on my hand. ....... Stubburn asshole said something to the point that this is my fault, (again) always my fault...... BULLSHIT.


I said since you're my roomate, when you get a job you can split the bills like roomates do. She said I make more money than she ever will, so thats not fair....... whatever............ Now we want to play fair???

I said you spread your legs just to keep the carrot in front of the donkey long enough. You just couldn't fake it anymore it seems. I said that is sick, and that I was a fool for letting it satisfy me for the time being. Told her that telling me to go be with someone else for love is sick too. She said she didn't mean that, but she told me this SO many times over the years..... I said BULLSHIT again, because on our deep Friday talk she told me about a slutty classmate at the grad party that I should be with for a week to get it out of my system....

I'm all set with this. I said I'm sorry, but please give me my bank card so you can stop spending my money, and so I can save up to move out.

She said if you take it, its definitely over.

I said GOOD, closure. Went to bed.

In the morning I told her she can still reverse this if she wants.

I come home from work today, and nothing changed. No fighting, but nothing else..........

I put my arms around her from the back, and asked if she misses being close to me at all. She said No, she has alot on her mind. Job interview tomorrow, and some test she still needs to take for the school she graduated from, long story why its after the grad, but it is) I understand, but thats not love my friends.

Half of me wants to find someone out there that wants to treat me how I deserve to be treated.

The other half of me wants to be single for a while and enjoy the love of many women. I'm in my prime, i have to be better looking than 95% of my male competition out there, and smarter than most too. I'm a catch and i know it. Women aren't afraid to tell me either. 

I really don't want to reconcile now. However I still will try again if she shows effort. I want to move out, and get divorced, but financially can't at the moment.

Breaks my fucking heart because of my little girl. 

I'm starting to hate my wife. 

So thats where its at. Sitting here typing with no wedding ring on, and now It burns me inside to think about all the time and money this asshole cost me.

I flipped the table over in our relationship. (Figuratively). 

On a side note, we enjoyed the movie HALL PASS together, which was super funny, however no mention of me getting a hall pass was talked about! lol

I'm alright with whatever the outcome is. My social circle is growing fast and strong, so when the bomb gets dropped I wont be alone. I seemed to have lost touch with most of my old friends when I started dating this asshole 11 years ago. Thats fine. I kind of like making new ones better.

So I'm 34, in my prime, and not taking anymore bullshit.

My next step is to get her served for divorce for Cruel and unusual treatment.... Just not sure how long that will take. I need a few weeks for money reasons, I think its 250 to file, and I have a SHITLOAD of bills that need to be paid for work, ... Insurances and shit.... Plus 4th july weekend, maybe I'll fake it now for a while.

I may still try to make her fall in love with me again, and then break her heart. I'm usually not like this, but I've changed. She is 10 steps below me. I think I was mesmerized by her beauty all these years. .... Sorry hun, you don't have the golden pussy.


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## Built (Jun 28, 2011)

Man, you're bitter. I'm glad you have us to unload all that - you needed to get it out. 

Now breathe. Whatever happens, you know you're going to be fine, and if you're fine, your daughter will be fine. 

And that's really all that matters.


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## independent (Jun 28, 2011)

Time to move on. Dont waste another 7 years, it will never work out with her.


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## JCBourne (Jun 28, 2011)

Hey man, this is just input from me and take it how you want.

Seems you don't give her a ton of attention, or do "little" things. There is quite a big chance that she is talking to someone else or getting that attention from another guy. May not seem like it and even though she is VERY busy it's possible. She may be looking for attention that doesn't lead to sex and maybe she is getting that somewhere else.

Trust me, it's very well possible if you don't think so. Women like little things, things us men don't seem to understand or get and we blow it off. Usually there is some kind of warning sign and it may be VERY hard to find it but there is.

Step back and see if maybe this is the case, I hope it's not but it's possible. She may not say be cheating on you but again it's possible she's texting another guy, talking to another guy at school about her problems, etc, etc.

EDIT:

Just read your latest response, I think you need to move on and end it. Don't make her fall inlove again and then break her heart man just move on. Doing stuff like that will come back to bite you in the ass (Mommy tells daughter how much of an asshole you were when she gets older, daughter sides with mom and your no longer in the picture) if anything, I would try to give as much respect as possible but OUT of that relationship. It's obviously over and gone and don't make it worse, you know why? Because kids can sense these things and even if parents think they are doing it in secret kids know. I knew damn well when my parents were fighting and being ruthless to each other when I was a kid even though they thought I didn't know.

If anything do this for your daughter, you do not want to destroy that relationship. You say you love your daughter so don't ruin it. Sounds like mommy has some serious issues and if you piss her off more she may use your daughter against you.


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## niki (Jun 28, 2011)

whoa.

Man, I am really sorry.  But it's better to know, than to go on living in fear and rejection.  Now you can move forward and see what life has to offer to you.


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## sassy69 (Jun 28, 2011)

Wow this is an intense thread. It looks like you've taken your stand and she's kinda still not stepping up. I have to agree... women don't come w/ a user's manual, or if they do, its about 800 pages long and the latest update isnt' available yet. I agree that women do not uncommonly, go thru phases where there is no interest in sex. Probably because there are more feelings that feed into it, plus hormones. Then throw in that a guy pretty much equates "love" with "sex" as his expression of it, which can then be interpretted by the woman as just a selfish demand for sex.

From her side, if she's got a history of depression, that's an issue in itself. If she's on any sort of anti-depressant, those are notorious for destroying sex drive. Further, I'd love to have her get bloodwork to understand what are her natural sex hormone levels. My guess is a really low test level.

I also have seen a number of women who simply won't deal w/ their sexual issues for whatever reason and their way of handling it is to ignore it or bury it / deflect it w/ an argument. This sort of kills anything you could even do to address the issue if it can't even be talked about. 

Normally to this topic I would say, it is something that women just sometimes go thru, but start by checking off the things that can be determined - i.e. natural test levels - this is a fairly objective thing to check and shouldn't carry a lot of negative connotations with it - low test levels don't make you weird or less of a woman or whatever - they just are what you are born with and are fairly easy to address. The depression thing is a bigger deal, tho similarly can be due to very simply your natural body chemistry, but it can carry more negative connotations that can be taken to heart to "not be discussed" or be ashamed of, and it can be a little harder to come up w/ the right combination of treatment to address. Self-confidence issues / ready to turn it back on you like "fine go find some other chick to appreciate you" -- that's another flavor of just not dealing with it / deflecting it.

As I'm writing this, I'm wondering if you've asked her "what do you need to feel loved?"  Is there an answer for that, or is it really just something she's not interested in and there's nothing left to work with?

If either you or she are interested in reading anything, I'd point you to one of my favorite radio talk show guys - Dennis Prager - he's a conservative Republican politically and speaks extensively on spiritual stuff as a Jewish  religious authority, but what I love about him is his very simple and clear way of discussing so many things, among them, how men & women relate (or don't). Two of his regular segments on his radio show are, I think on Wednesdays "The Male/Female Hour" and on Fridays, "The Happiness Hour". 

Here's the last 30 days of his radio show on podcast if you want to peruse any of these:
Radio Show | Pragertopia

I also think this is a great discussion of understanding how men view / express "love" vs women - I wish there was more available to link to directly online, but at least for reference "Keys to the Kingdom" (.. Celebrating Men / Satisfying Women) by Allison Armstrong.

On a side note, I am a huge proponent of tying up your loose ends before starting relationships w/ others - i.e. if you're going to seperate or divorce, get that tied up before you start screwing around w/ other women. I am a bit of an idealist, but I feel like its not really fair to yourself, your ex / soon to be ex or the person(s) you are getting involved w/ if you aren't free & clear of your previous relationship. It tends to create more drama for all parties involved, and a lot more resentment, which can exaccerabate the relationship w/ your (future) ex and your child(ren) which you will probably never be walking away from completely.

Best of luck to you. It pains me so much to see a relationship w/ so much pain in it - its hard enough to get a viable relationship established. Festering issues will always be picked up on by little kids and they never really seem to get better if you don't address them honestly & openly.


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## independent (Jun 29, 2011)

sassy69 said:


> On a side note, I am a huge proponent of tying up your loose ends before starting relationships w/ others - i.e. if you're going to seperate or divorce, get that tied up before you start screwing around w/ other women. I am a bit of an idealist, but I feel like its not really fair to yourself, your ex / soon to be ex or the person(s) you are getting involved w/ if you aren't free & clear of your previous relationship. It tends to create more drama for all parties involved, and a lot more resentment, which can exaccerabate the relationship w/ your (future) ex and your child(ren) which you will probably never be walking away from completely.
> .



This^^^^


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## Ravager (Jun 29, 2011)

Now it seems she is showing signs of effort. At least now she looks in my eyes and gave me a warm embrace, and a nice hug n kiss goodnight. (Which she asked for, not me)......

I know the last message sounded bitter. I don't think I really feel hatred, just have a guard up to protect myself from getting hurt.

I do love my wife, and I want things to work out.

The thought of being single is probably better than the real thing. Its been so long i'm probably forgetting how much it sux.

The reality of child support will break me financially and emotionally not being with my lil one.

......

Thanks guys for listening and commenting. It does help me sort through my thoughts. I don't think there is an easy answer here.

I almost wish I was getting cheated on, at least I could close this out. 

What bugs me the most here is not having a vision about where I'll be in the future, which is the whole point of marriage. I'm starting to think marriage is a joke, with so many people getting divorced, nobody takes these vows seriously anymore......


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## independent (Jun 29, 2011)

Ravager said:


> Now it seems she is showing signs of effort. At least now she looks in my eyes and gave me a warm embrace, and a nice hug n kiss goodnight. (Which she asked for, not me)......
> 
> I know the last message sounded bitter. I don't think I really feel hatred, just have a guard up to protect myself from getting hurt.
> 
> ...



I just hope shes not trying to keep you around to pay the bills.


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## S_walker (Jun 29, 2011)

Wow this is an interesting thread for sure. Alot of solid advice too. Like previously mentioned I would end it before becoming involved with other women. A side of me hopes your able to work it out, but the other side says to cut your losses and get yourself in order (make yourself happy). 

My only advise to you is NOT to start drinking. I think that would only compound your troubles. If you do decide that you've had enough, file first! Be sure to find an attorney that will fight for you and assure you have, at a minimum joint custody. 

You sound like you got your shit together. Take care of yourself and your daughter. I wish you the best of luck! Walker


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## sassy69 (Jun 29, 2011)

Ravager said:


> Now it seems she is showing signs of effort. At least now she looks in my eyes and gave me a warm embrace, and a nice hug n kiss goodnight. (Which she asked for, not me)......
> 
> I know the last message sounded bitter. I don't think I really feel hatred, just have a guard up to protect myself from getting hurt.
> 
> ...



You're right that there are no easy answers --- on the one hand, this situation could look very black & white, on another there could be a whole spectrum of shades of gray. I think at least you've turned the tables a little by specifically calling out that you're not playing the game and the situation is not something she is driving now - its sort in her court. Sometimes people don't know what they've got until its gone (to quote a good rock ballad), or at least a tangible indication that things are not going to be convenient to their own actions / responses and you on the defensive. 

Give it a week - you may see some continued changes, if even a little at time that indicate you're forcing her to make some decisions and deal w/ the situation.


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## Muscle_Girl (Jun 29, 2011)

Jesus, so much has happened in such a little timeframe, I am starting to wonder where the "try anything and everything before I give up" went.. You gave it what, a day past the regular deadline of your scheduled lay? Cmon.. thats not trying. You have all of these expectations, and having them is enough.. but when you confront her about them, that makes them 10x worse. She knows something is wrong, and when you are just freaking about not getting the affection you deserve, how can she concentrate on the actual issue to try and solve it.

You need to support your wife and get to the bottom of the problem. Support means seeing what she needs to get out of the rut she is in. Most likely, she probably just needs to see you being selfless for once. Those silly threats of taking off your wedding ring and taking away the debit card won't get you anywhere, it will only cause resentment -- further problems.

Ultimately, I think you need to be more patient, problems aren't fixed overnight. If you are patient enough and keep inquiring about whats making her distant, you will get your answer eventually. Rub some out while you both work towards getting to the bottom of the issue. 

BTW with the mention of the kid sleeping on your bedroom floor frequently.. have you not looked at that as a possible factor?

Be patient, be supportive and quit thinking with your dick. She knows what is bugging you, but do you know whats bugging HER!


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## Built (Jun 29, 2011)

Muscle_Girl said:


> *BTW with the mention of the kid sleeping on your bedroom floor frequently.. have you not looked at that as a possible factor?*



Get a lock on your bedroom door. Seriously.


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## Ravager (Jun 30, 2011)

Muscle_Girl said:


> Jesus, so much has happened in such a little timeframe, I am starting to wonder where the "try anything and everything before I give up" went.. You gave it what, a day past the regular deadline of your scheduled lay? Cmon.. thats not trying. You have all of these expectations, and having them is enough.. but when you confront her about them, that makes them 10x worse. She knows something is wrong, and when you are just freaking about not getting the affection you deserve, how can she concentrate on the actual issue to try and solve it.
> 
> You need to support your wife and get to the bottom of the problem. Support means seeing what she needs to get out of the rut she is in. Most likely, she probably just needs to see you being selfless for once. Those silly threats of taking off your wedding ring and taking away the debit card won't get you anywhere, it will only cause resentment -- further problems.
> 
> ...



Now why is it thinking with my dick because I want to be CLOSE to my wife?

I don't give a fuck about getting my dick wet, sucked, jerked, or fucked. I want the close contact, skin on skin, kissing, passion.

Why do they call it "Making Love" if its just thinking with your dick?

If a woman wants to "Make Love" is she just thinking with her pussy with no concern for her man?


You could cut my dick off, and I'd still earn for the cuddling, passionate affection. I love the naked skin on skin contact. I love making my woman pleased.

....................................................


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## Ravager (Jun 30, 2011)

Built said:


> Get a lock on your bedroom door. Seriously.



It's time to get the lil' ones room in shape so she sleeps in there. A lock is a great idea and will go on soon. Usually put a laundry basket to buy some time if the lil' one runs in, but we usually (used to?) wait until she's sleeping.

Maybe half my problem is I let days turn to weeks into months into years before taking action and realizing what was happening, or what wasn't happening.

As far as playing games with the wedding ring, why is that a game? what more can I say to her to get her to understand how much this is affecting me? I told her when she's ready to be my wife again, apologize, and put my ring back on.

If the tables were turned, I'd apologize and put the ring back on her.

As far as the bank card............... 

This woman spends my money like it grows on trees. Meanwhile I have a stack of bills next to me. I don't mind, because I like to make her happy and want her to have nice things. BUT I can NEVER save for move out or Divorce if she's spending all my coin.........

Not games IMO. Pretty deep shit. I don't like doing this stuff either, but WTF swallow your pride and aplogize for telling me to go with other woman for attention and put the ring back on your husbands hand already.


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## flexxthese (Jun 30, 2011)

(in general) i'll never understand why it's your house and you have to move out. I don't do relationships, marriage will never be in my plans. Too much headache. I have too much living to do


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## Muscle_Girl (Jun 30, 2011)

Ravager said:


> Now why is it thinking with my dick because I want to be CLOSE to my wife?
> 
> I don't give a fuck about getting my dick wet, sucked, jerked, or fucked. I want the close contact, skin on skin, kissing, passion.
> 
> ...



This only solidifies my point. You are thinking on a physical level and what you aren't getting in regards to that. Women aren't like men, its more mental.. so if you are just all physical and no mental, thats what she has come to expect from you. Speculation says that after several years of satisfying your physical need and not getting the mental she needs, she has come to the realization that there isn't much point anymore.. thats just a guess.

Get into her mental side. Be spontaneous. The child is the root of many discomforts from my point of view. You are still very concerned about your side of things.

Whenever I read your posts, I can't help but see the "woe-is-me" written all over it. If you want me to follow the crowd and just agree with everything you are saying, I will. But, I think something can be done here if effort was taken to step outside yourself and look at the big picture. Instead of saying "look whats happening to me," ask yourself, "why is this happening to me."

This thread started with you asking how to increase her sex drive. I have said multiple times that you need to appeal to her mental side, but I haven't seen you try at that much.. aside from the dinner I guess. I also said that women hold onto things a little longer than men. Even if its subconscious, the arguements you two are having are affecting her for far longer than they are you; how can you expect her to jump back into affection if she is in a poor state of mind.


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## cacrv (Jun 30, 2011)

bigmoe65 said:


> Time to move on. Dont waste another 7 years, it will never work out with her.



i agree.


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## Little Wing (Jun 30, 2011)

Ravager said:


> I was able to get some info out of her
> some fighting words from a month ago fight....
> I guess you gals really do hold on to this crap..



what words? i think it would help us to tell you how many years she's going to stay pissed. some words NEVER will leave her heart. calling them "fighting words" does not change the damage they do.


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## LightBearer (Jun 30, 2011)

thats grounds for termination



Ravager said:


> I've tested the water on the find someone else comments before too.
> 
> I've said, I don't want a hooker.
> 
> She replies, I didn't say a hooker, you're an attractive man, I'm sure  girls look at you all the time, go be with one of them. So I say why  would rather break up the family than put forth a little effort to make  your husband happy, and without a doubt yourself too.... To which she  never has an answer, but nothing 'clicks' and as a result nothing  changes.


if thats how she is she deserves to be cheat on


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## Zaphod (Jun 30, 2011)

What Ravager is going through is exactly what's happening to me.  I realize I have my own laundry list of problems and I try to fix them or at the bare minimum make them less of a problem.  My wife has problems, she knows what they are, she goes to see a counselor but doesn't seem to be telling her counselor what the real story is.  I've tried the whole range of ways to help from 100% encouragement and support all the way to almost being downright verbally abusive and insulting.  Nothing I do helps, or she won't let it help.  So I've told her I can't do anything else for her, she needs to figure it out on her own.  

Married 17, almost 18, years and I'm about ready to flat out tell her shit needs to change or something else has to happen.  My physical and emotional needs aren't being met, I'm always there for her and only get an attitude when the log jam of emotions starts to make its way downstream because there just isn't any more holding it back.  When that happens *I'm* the bad guy, *I'm* the one with the problem.  

This is an assload more than I'd ever planned on saying about the situation, but you aren't alone, Ravager.  As insane as it sounds I feel better knowing I'm not the only one.


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## sassy69 (Jun 30, 2011)

^^ Kind of like I said - its hard to have a productive conversation if both parties don't engage. Many people deal w/ an issue by NOT dealing w/ it. And you can't MAKE them do it - it takes a lot to get both parties to let down the wall long enough to be open to the conversation and actually HEAR what the other one says AND be able to SAY something w/o fear of the other person's wall going up / attitude kicking in / other emotions distracting from the end goal. It is can be very hard for some people to expose themselves and be vulnerable that much to get to the discussion.


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## Ravager (Jun 30, 2011)

Muscle_Girl said:


> This only solidifies my point. You are thinking on a physical level and what you aren't getting in regards to that. Women aren't like men, its more mental.. so if you are just all physical and no mental, thats what she has come to expect from you. Speculation says that after several years of satisfying your physical need and not getting the mental she needs, she has come to the realization that there isn't much point anymore.. thats just a guess.
> 
> Get into her mental side. Be spontaneous. The child is the root of many discomforts from my point of view. You are still very concerned about your side of things.
> 
> ...



No I appreciate your input. I value everyones opinions, and take them into consideration.

Why should all the marraige compromise be done on my side? Meaning I lose.... Isn't compromise supposed to be 2 people compromising, not just me?

The dinner was nice. As was that night. I loved talking to her as I held her in my arms all night even if she was shitfaced. I did not push sex on her, and the next night I Wasn't waiting for her to jump in bed with me, just waiting for her to show a little affection, or to show me that she hears what I'm saying a little bit...

WHICH, now she seems to.

When we aren't bickering, our houshold is very nice, we get along well, enjoy TV shows, watch movies....

We are both stressed out about money ATM.

I really don't have a lot of money to take her out as much as I would like to... plus getting a Sitter and such is more moneys.

And about the bank card, its not our joint marriage bank acount, I own, operate, and run two businesses by myself, and the bank card she has has almost unrestricted access to 100% of my business account. I must balance money in my mind to make it until the next time I get paid, which is usually every two weeks.

Now I have let her buy things that make her happy all the while. And as she says, "We're married, I should", and I do, and it makes me very happy to make her happy. She doesn't like expensive things, just likes to go shopping, like any other woman does.

I am the only one bringing in money for the last 5 years.
She is in school, and pre-school is OUTRAGOUSLY expensive, on top of maintaining a very large diesel truck that I drive everyday, need to keep the fuel in there, and workmans Comp insurance, liablility insurance, vehicle insurance, cell phones, rent, utilities ... blah blah blah I know we all have bills.... 

My point is, I don't have 10 grand, or even 1 grand in the bank to take her to Aruba or even out to dinner.

Maybe I'm a loser, or a failure, but its not easy in this economy for me keep up with my bills, let alone splurge for her, as much as I would like to.

We have each other, and that was always good enough. 

Being close is free, and something to look forward too.

Like right now, we're getting along great, family is happy, little girl is happy, dog is happy, wife is happy.

So I want a little affection in return for my hard work and stressed out like a mofo it would help me. Instead I have to put my needs aside (LIKE ALWAYS) and keep providing for everyone else. Needs, not wants. Fuck, I'm probably more sensative and sweet than most men out there, thats one of the major reasons my wife fell in love with me to begin with. 

There are things my wife can do, and she does to help out, She cooks, cleans does housework.. I do the outside work, fix/repair the vehicles, and pay for everything.

Thank god I go to the gym 5 days a week or I'd probably kill someone.

So-

Is it really too much to ask for a little passion from my wife?

Sure I've said some nasty things to her when we were fighting, but do you think I said them unprovoked?

If it looks like a duck, and acts like a duck, I call it a duck. Sorry, I'm not going to sugar coat things. Don't want to be called a duck, don't act like a duck....

And I've apologized, even though in the past, she's said the same things, hit me numerous times, even smashed a glass off my forehead (which didn't even break the skin ), but still.... 

If anyone is abused in this relationship it was ME. 

But thats the past. .... I move on.

I don't buy it that she's really holding on hateful words, when these actions existed well before.



Of course she has no idea this thread exists. She's not a computer person, doesn't even have a facebook page, and probably doesn't even know what a forum is.

Regardless I'm very careful not to use hateful words anymore, even if they are deserved.

We're not white-collar office couple here. We're blue collar family, who used to abuse drugs n alcohol together, partied alot. 

We have friends that are the bar-type, alot of them very rough, and frequently talk very crude, as my wife has a filth mouth when they come around. F-this, Fucking that.... Its just a word that gets used alot. 

Thats why I don't buy into the holding a grudge thing. There is more here.

When your man comes home, don't you give him a hug and/or a kiss, and say, Hi Honey, how was your day? Thats not asking too much.

I don't take my shitty days home one bit. In fact I never do. I have great mind control, and can usually see myself from a 3rd person point of view, as well as see how i'm thinking, and make adjustments from there.

Right now she's cooking supper for me and the lil' one, and things are great. I gave her a hug when I got home, she was facing the stove, I put my arms around her, and kissed her on the neck.

She did give me a hug this morning, and actually put her arms around me and squeezed. That made me happy.

Last night she said, "You just want to be divorced, because your so good looking now". I said, Thanks for noticing, this is the FIRST compliment you've given me in 6 months, but I don't want to be single, I want to be happily married to you.

She is also snuggling up with me in the the morning between snooze button smashes, which I usually drag out for about an hour each morning  But its so damn nice.

Someone above mentioned that I relate sex with love. I cannot have sex with someone I am not in love with. I wish I could, but thats not me I guess. That SEX word always takes dominance over the LOVE word. Its the other way around. Hell I didn't even call it sex until she started with this Okay make it quick shit once a week. IT was always making love.


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## Ravager (Jun 30, 2011)

*If anyone has any specific question for me to ask, I will ask them and report back the exact answers*. 

Please. And as always, thanks for listening, and offering me your thoughts, I truly appreciate it. Hell its the most attention I get all day, lol! j/k


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## independent (Jun 30, 2011)

Well I'll give you credit because most guys would have kicked her to the curb by now.


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## independent (Jun 30, 2011)

Ravager said:


> Please. And as always, thanks for listening, and offering me your thoughts, I truly appreciate it. Hell its the most attention I get all day, lol! j/k



I bet the Capt'n would give you a hand job.


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## Ravager (Jun 30, 2011)

Little Wing said:


> what words? i think it would help us to tell you how many years she's going to stay pissed. some words NEVER will leave her heart. calling them "fighting words" does not change the damage they do.



CUNT okay... I'm not happy about it, but like I said, that word gets used around our friends all the time, and I've been called it FIRST and numerous times..

I've apoligized, and havn't said it again.

So either move on, or divorce me, or kill me in my sleep.

Its a word people. Don't give it more power than what it is.

I'm not proud about it, usually I have more self control, but like I said, if you think I said it unprovoked, or without cause that would be wrong.

So how many years punishment do I have to suffer? And why is it only affecting her sex drive? (which I don't think it is)

I still thinks its a depression/postpardum/birthcontrol issue. 

The woman just doesn't get horny. Just like her mother who is happy single for 20 years, without desire for a companion.

So shame on me, I suck i know... But fuck, I'm sorry, and apologized. 

But what about the complete motherfucking asshole she was being for me to say that? Thats okay? I don't even remember why. It was the past.
Don't want to be called a duck, don't act like a duck. Regardless, I will never say it again, because it gets stuffed in the back pocket and used as ammunition against me.

I'm sitting down, let it rip at ol' Ravager! I'm ready


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## LightBearer (Jun 30, 2011)

the word CUNT is one ive also thrown around a little too freely in the past, i agree in that it does a lot of damage
im also in a similar relationship for 5yrs, but not married and no kids thank god, but my girl at least lets me fuck regularly, she just ignores me while im doing it


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## Muscle_Girl (Jun 30, 2011)

There was one thing that stood out the most for me in all of what you said.
*"So I want a little affection in return for my hard work and stressed out like a mofo it would help me." *This is something that is very important to you, and I think you need to remind her every so often. Not.. do this, but rather, when it happens, tell her that it makes you feel good -- after a day of hard work and stressful situations, its nice for me to come home to this.

There is such an issue with the way men and women understand what is important to the opposite sex, most of the time because its not talked about. You can get what you want without demanding it, just have to play the words right in the right situation and the other person should pick up on it.

As for the cunt word, and the situation surrounding it. Its like hardwired into women to overreact beyond anything when they hear that word, its just a very dirty word. I have used it once or twice, and I have had it used against me once or twice. Its easy to say its just a word, but its the worst one of all the ones you can choose to use against a woman. The situation on the other hand, I feel like I am reading text of a second grader. "She started it.. blah blah.." I know in the heat of the moment shit happens, but after the fact its silly to look at it like that.

Key to running a business: money management! Its mental that you are using the business card for home purposes.

*Hi honey, how was your day?* It way too drone for me, and I wouldn't be able to do it each time you entered the house. You want acknowledgement, keep trying to give and it will come back on you. If my guy came home and wrapped his arms around me, it would make me feel pretty damn good. But I feel if it became routine, it just loses its magic.

There are many things that you two can do together to spend time, it doesn't have to cost a load of money. Just the two of you is how you need it though. How often does she get time away by herself, without school or work, just some alone time without you and the kid? Solitude can do good sometimes. Does she have friends she can go out for a night here or there? Just to let loose?

Money stress is the worst kind. I think its the number one factor when it comes to divorces. Don't become a statistic! Read up on money management. I have been reading a lot about investing lately, one book that is somewhat unrelated I came across was Rich Dad Poor Dad. Very inspiring book, especially since you are a businessman. Give it a shot if you have time. I was able to grab it off pirate bay.

Bottom line, things are ok now, but give it til the end of the week when the stress has built up in you from work and you will want to have her throat again for not giving you what you need. This is a gradual fix that the both of you need to work on. You can only account for what YOU do/change, you have to trust that she will do the same, you can't make her do it.


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## Ravager (Jul 1, 2011)

Muscle_Girl said:


> There was one thing that stood out the most for me in all of what you said.
> *"So I want a little affection in return for my hard work and stressed out like a mofo it would help me." *This is something that is very important to you, and I think you need to remind her every so often. Not.. do this, but rather, when it happens, tell her that it makes you feel good -- after a day of hard work and stressful situations, its nice for me to come home to this.
> 
> There is such an issue with the way men and women understand what is important to the opposite sex, most of the time because its not talked about. You can get what you want without demanding it, just have to play the words right in the right situation and the other person should pick up on it.
> ...



Thanks MG. I'd rep you again but I can't. 

I don't want this thread to become redundant, so I'm not going to update until after the holiday weekend.

I will try my hardest to do all the little mental things that make you silly little woman happy.  

Not sure why you gals are so difficult to please, and so unforward with what you want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol 

EVERYONE HAVE A WONDERFUL 4th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  CELEBRATE THE BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD (Even if you live in the Hat MG!!!)

I am so proud of my country, all our troops, and all we stand for. (Except the massive debt!)


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## Ravager (Jul 5, 2011)

Well....

I think she turned her page, but at what cost?

She told me Saturday that I want to be single (now that I'm all good looking and stuff..) Is she jeolous that she's not the standout beauty in the relationship? Insecure?? Or just figuring out now that I get stared at wherever I go by women? 

I told her I'm not afraid to be honest with her as she is to me, and It's not that I want to be single, but I'm preparing for it. I said I don't know if it will be in a day, a year, or in 5 years, but I'm pretty confident she will leave me sooner or later.

We had company over Saturday, and all was good, fake or not. No rings on, but nobody asked why if they even noticed. She had a few too many drinks again (getting tired of that too).

Anyhow after that she did cry to me and ask what happened to her best friend (meaning me) I said I'm here and it feels like I'm the only one trying and she gave me a big hug. Then my lil girl came and joined in the family hug, (and the dog too).... But that ended the conversation.

Sunday morning I let her sleep in, and started to re-arrange the lil ones room with a new bed and getting it set up for her to start sleeping in there. The dragon finally wakes up and instantly starts being a bitch............................ I can't even remember what about. 

I calmly told her enough. I've reached my point. Why don't we just get a divorce. We don't need lawyers, joint custody, and we can remain friends.

We went to a cookout and oddly enough now she's acting all different to me. Now she's trying?? WTF??? We had a nice time at the cookout, even though I ended up playing badminton and swimming with my daughter for most of the day.

She told me after the cookout that its not me that she has lack of passion for. She just said she has NO passion to give. Not to me, not to another man, not to anyone.......?????? Libido issue? Just like her mother. She also apologized for telling me to be with other women (now that I finally opened up to the idea there too). Still wont put my ring back on my finger. Wants me to wear it, but I want her to put it on. (not that tough) I'd do it for her, or I would have anyhow.....

She did 'make love' but she had no interest in cuming..... But she was kissy and alot more passionate then before. And told me numerous times that she wanted to make me feel good. She is definately trying now.....

Problem -

I think I shut my feelings off for her....... 

Why does she wait until I'm ready to give up completely? I mean I cut out a piece of my heart that belonged to her to prepare for loss.

2nd problem - I was playing with fire with that bartender, and now shes stuck in my head..... Texting me and I return flirty texts (of course with a Friends only theme) right...... There is a spark there, and it feels damn good guys...... 

Now things are way fucked up. I don't know whats genuine, and what's a last ditch effort, or ploy because she is scared that she finally loses me.

She knows I'm a great husband, and a best father possible. (My favorite job)

She knows I've treated her like gold, and she knows she's a bitch, and I put up with her (her words from the past). 

I think she also knows I'm done with it, and I've been driven away.

She doesn't know of this other women, not that she really has a role here, just a friend, but Harry met Sallee said, men and women can't be friends? The sex thing gets in the way.??? 

She refuses counceling, and wont tell her doctor about her libido issue.

She also NEVER gets her period since the birth of our daughter, so You'd think she'd talk to her doctor?????????? Somethings amiss. I know my wife isn't perfect, but I overlooked inperfections as you must do with anyone you love.

So Monday I took my lil' girl swimming all day (wife didn't want to go) and when she went to bed I asked the wife if she minded that I went to play pool for an hour or so. (yep, to see my bartender, who only works mondays).... She said I guess last night was a waste then. I said no it wasn't, but don't expect to fix years worth of bullshit in one night, and I left.

I was only gone an hour, did nothing wrong, just talked to my 'friend', not about anything bad, or otherwise, no flirting, just said hi, and nobody was there playing pool so I left.....

All night the wife cuddled me close.... Which was nice.

Came home today from work, and she put her arms on me and said 'hot today wasn't it' because I'm cooked from being outside all day (heatwave) Super dark tan  And gave me a hug. More effort.

Too little too late maybe??

So here's my observations.

She didn't even try at all until I was ready to leave her, which wasn't easy for me to get to that point. I had to cut my emotional ties to her to get there, and I don't think they can be easily rekindled.

I shouldn't have played with fire (EVEN THOUGH SHE BEEN TELLING ME TOO FOR YEARS)... because now I'm getting burned..............but now I can't get this other woman out of my head.....................My fault and I'll admit it.... *But it feels so good to talk to this other woman, feels better than having sex with my wife if that makes sense.* Shame on me for doing this. I admit when I'm wrong.

She still wont seek help, or even aknowledge that having no libido is an issue (or having NO period!!!) (probably connected????!??!?!)........... 

So do I want to try again? Man I've been trying for so long I finally gave up!!! Now I have to force myself to try again?????

Do I want to have passionless sex for the rest of my life  with someone who has no interest in cuming? I mean thats my favorite part making her feel good.

This got ugly on me really fast. Although I do feel completely in control, but I don't feel good about it one bit.

Now the wifes sister is in the hospital with a possibly life threatening ulser...........Which sucks.... Hope she's alright. 

Thanks guys for listening to this ongoing thread and offering advice.

Wow my posts get long fast. It truly helps me to get all this off my chest. Thanks again guys for listening. It makes a difference in one guys life.


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## independent (Jul 5, 2011)

Its funny how as soon as you push her away its shocks her back to reality momentarily. But once she gets you interested in her she reverts back to her bullshit. I know youre in a bad situation with money and the kid but you need to make a decision soon. she obviously has no desire to really change.


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## Ravager (Jul 5, 2011)

bigmoe65 said:


> Its funny how as soon as you push her away its shocks her back to reality momentarily. But once she gets you interested in her she reverts back to her bullshit. I know youre in a bad situation with money and the kid but you need to make a decision soon. she obviously has no desire to really change.



Agreed. I'm not fooled one bit.


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## sassy69 (Jul 5, 2011)

The part that concerns me is that she won't go get a damn physical. Something like libido is fairly easy to deal w/ - tell your doc you dont' feel anything since the baby and you heard about testosterone therapy. Also no period since the baby is another thing I'd be exploring. Esp if she has any desire to even keep the CHANCE of having kids open as an option.

I'd say to her, "For YOU, do you want to know these things or is it sufficient for you to go thru life feeling no passion for anything?".

Women are very weird when it comes to emotional stuff and anything that someone might even hint at being "other than normal". Honestly, there's a stage show called "The Vagina Monologues" - I saw it w/ a friend several years ago. Initially we thought it was funny - there is some humor in it, but overall, I felt so bad for the women who shared their stories about why they never had sex again, never touched themselves or had certain views about themselves, their sexuality and their self-confidence and self-empowerment because of what they thought someone else might think.


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## red rocket (Jul 5, 2011)

There was ALOT to read hear, and honestly I didnt read it all, skimmed abit.

My wife is generally very low libido wise. Wasnt when we met, but once she got "comfortable" things started to drop off.  At one point before I left her to figure things out, I found myself dinking at night to get to a point where I could fall asleep and not have to dwell on it.  Once I realized how bad this was for me, I told her how serious this issue was for me, and that she needed some time to figure it out.

I recommended she see her doctor to find out what the problem might be, I bnelieve it is a mental and emotional thing that may have happened to her when she was younger, but she wont admit to that.  But there was an instance there, she just wont talk about it.

Things are better in that department now, and she deffinately puts in an effort.


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## heavyiron (Jul 5, 2011)

10mg of Prop eod. she will be a crazy woman....oh, and demand she see a doc first.


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## Muscle_Girl (Jul 5, 2011)

Seems like things are coming around.. you may not see progress, but I do. She is at least talking about things with you. You need to go about things the right way if you want them to continue to improve. 

Sex is the biggest issue for the both of you right now, you both know its an issue, but you don't have much a clue why. You need to get to the bottom of this. I suggest you support her the best you can.. you have done awesomely so far, but it will take some more work. Its very possible that she is afraid of what the doctor may tell her if she goes and checks it out. You need to support her, don't demand she goes and gets it checked.. tell her that you are afraid of whats going on, pour your heart out to her, she will definately consider seeing the doctur if she knows how much its tearing you up.

If you want her to physically place the ring on your finger, you need to tell her why its so important to you. She may not have done it because she is feeling shame or thinks you are protesting the marriage. Tell her that you need it and why you need it.. it seems to be a big deal for you.

You have to realize it isn't as much about an orgasm for women as it is for men. Its not completely debilitating if it doesn't happen. So, for her to shrug it off, isn't as big a deal as you think it is. For the most part, I am usually very satisfied when I have satisfied another, and this could have been enough for her that night.

As for her waiting until you had one foot out the door. If it is a mental issue, she could have been clouded to what was going on. And this drastic measure you have taken has shocked her out of it. Yes, she will go back to that place again if you don't support her through this rough time.

I detect a little envy from you when you speak about her drinking. Is this a larger issue than you are letting on? It seems like she has only done this a handful of times due to occasions that have come up. But, you make it sound a whole lot worse than it is. Btw, it could have been why she was bitchy the next morning, hangovers are teh suck.

Forcing anything, even using a forceful tone will get her back up. Try a different approach and explain how things are affecting you. If she can see that, she may be more willing than if you just demand everything. 

You can get the attention you need from you wife, if you simply set her up for it. But playing with this chick that is fire is a bad idea. Its lust, and you certainly don't want lust. The more you play, the more temptation will come to the equation, and well you know what that will equal.


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## Muscle_Girl (Jul 5, 2011)

sassy69 said:


> Women are very weird when it comes to emotional stuff and anything that someone might even hint at being "other than normal". Honestly, there's a stage show called "The Vagina Monologues" - I saw it w/ a friend several years ago. Initially we thought it was funny - there is some humor in it, but overall, I felt so bad for the women who shared their stories about why they never had sex again, never touched themselves or had certain views about themselves, their sexuality and their self-confidence and self-empowerment because of what they thought someone else might think.



I agree, its very weird. But, you can understand why. After so long, women have been taught to support and please their men. Not to mention, half the men out there haven't the slightest clue on how to please women, so what is there to look forward to.

Know whats fucked up? I had to watch this sex expert on Oprah before I could consider buying myself a vibrator and finally experiencing an orgasm. Know how much shit she got for airing that show? For empowering women to take pleasure into their own hands? Things have changed, but they haven't changed quite enough.


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## Ravager (Jul 5, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> 10mg of Prop eod. she will be a crazy woman....*oh, and demand she see a doc first*.



Thanks bro. Hope she doesn't look like you after that! (NO offense of course respect sir!)

The doc is a MUST if she wants me to even THINK about it.


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## Ravager (Jul 5, 2011)

I think her sister is going to die tonight in the hospital. She's a severe alcoholic and pill abuser and bled about 11 - 15 quarts out of her ass 

They are going to force surgury, but not on ideal terms with all the internal bleeding.

This is sad. 

I must be there for my wife during this time.

I will have to put my own needs/problems on hold and just be there for her.

There is also no way I'm ditching the lust friend. Maybe I'm putting my own nail in my coffin. Maybe I can NEVER fix my marriage now that I have this new interest. Finally something feels good, be it an emotional affair, if thats what it is. She reminds me what life is supposed to be filled with. Stupid things to look forward too. When I come home and see my wifes car in the driveway, reality sets in and I really don't want this anymore here.


I will demand the wife seek help if she wants me to try. (After her sister thing works out one way or another). Demand while I have the power. 


 The alcohol is a problem, I quit the drinking 4 years ago, and after the wife got a DUI 2 years ago (with my girl in the car) she doesn't drink at all, but at functions. However at 4'11 100lbs and with a mind that she can drink anything and everything like she used to, she drinks too much and doesn't eat. I guess I do resent that alot. Nothing worse than a reformed!!!! Maybe i'm bitter cuz this cost me $5,000.................

The death of her sister will probably be a reality check to her entire family of drunks. Too little too late for her sister though. 

Progress is being made. A divorce will be a monthly-year process. I want her to get a job first so if she gets a lawyer she doesn't fry me with support payments. We talked about joint custody with NO lawyers, but that can change fast with family advice/money. Meanwhile I have zero intentions of ending my emotional affair. I need the support. Sometimes its fun to catch the fish and not eat it, but I can't take this off the hook, and I'm getting hungry  Really hungry. This is the feeling of life. However I'm not going to bounce from 12 year relationship into another. Hmm, or have I already????? 

Ahh, life is filled with such surprises, and its amazing how one person can affect another person for better or for worse. And in a twisted world in which we live, I get treated better by someone I met a few weeks ago than my own wife of a 12 year relationship.

I'm not a weekend Dad. Its my first and most important job. My little girl NEEDS me to become all she can be. I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT ACCEPT LESS. Thank god she takes after me mentally. This kid is something special. (I know we all think this about our kids 

Life is too short. Be happy people. The day will come for all of us when our time is up, and I don't want to be one of those poor souls that woulda, shoulda, coulda, but didn't.

- Oh and she doesn't care about the period because she doesn't want any more kids. Which is/was with me, but I think deep down I want more, but thats another story.

I didn't mind being poor and in love one bit. 
I do mind being poor and with someone who is not in love back with me.

World works in mysterious ways. If her sister didn't go into the ICU today, I would have told her that I was forced to shut down my feelings for her and not sure if they can come back.

I must be here for her now, as a friend, as a husband. She is the mother of my kid, and always will be. Being friends is a must.

Anyhow thats why I'm up at 2am even though I have a huge day tomorrow in the 90df heatwave....


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## sassy69 (Jul 5, 2011)

Just a note about this "new interest" - the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. Just sayin. Stay focused on yourself & your kid. Get a direction at least in progress before you start screwing around. I cannot tell you of a way faster to fuck up your life, your wife's life and your "new interest"'s life.


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## ANIMALHAUS (Jul 6, 2011)

She not only refuses to have sex, but she complains about having to give you a kiss and hug at night because she hugged you in the morning?!?!?

This is text book intimacy issues.  How does she feel about herself?  is she insecure?  I hate to say this, but my ex fiancee got caught up in what I thought was her career.  She was always busy, and constantly too tired to have sex or be intimate.  I found out it was all because she was having an affair with a co-worker.  I really hope this isn't the case for you, but it might be something to look into and confront her about.

Sometimes people fall out of love, but only try to make it work for the sake of their family.  I hope everything works out.


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## Chubby (Jul 6, 2011)

Samsara?


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## Muscle_Girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, I am not really sure why you continue to post then. It seems as though you have already given up. Just realize, in sickness and in health.. you are turning your back on the sickness, whats to say you won't do it with the next one.


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## independent (Jul 6, 2011)

Muscle_Girl said:


> Well, I am not really sure why you continue to post then. It seems as though you have already given up. Just realize, in sickness and in health.. you are turning your back on the sickness, whats to say you won't do it with the next one.



So youre assuming shes sick?  Maybe she just doesnt love him.


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## oufinny (Jul 6, 2011)

Muscle_Girl said:


> Well, I am not really sure why you continue to post then. It seems as though you have already given up. Just realize, in sickness and in health.. you are turning your back on the sickness, whats to say you won't do it with the next one.



Its been 12 years... there is a point in time where you have to make a choice.  I would say encourage her to get to the doctor for maybe a few more weeks, possibly a month and be supportive of her sister as you are, but don't throw away your life and some of your daughters by being in an unhealthy and unhappy home.  Seen the ramification of this in many friends, it is the kids who suffer the most later on so he is not being selfish at all by wanting to say enough is enough.


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## Muscle_Girl (Jul 6, 2011)

bigmoe65 said:


> So youre assuming shes sick?  Maybe she just doesnt love him.


If you had been reading from the start, you would understand why I regard this as a sickness that she has. Its not like it was sudden that she started acting this way. Why would a woman bare a mans child just to treat him like dirt afterwards? I believe that this is a post partum depression that has spiraled into something more serious, and won't end without the right support.

Mental illness, depression in this case, is a serious thing. Most people don't realize its happening to them. Its also a difficult thing to admit to yourself, let alone others.


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## Muscle_Girl (Jul 6, 2011)

oufinny said:


> Its been 12 years... there is a point in time where you have to make a choice.  I would say encourage her to get to the doctor for maybe a few more weeks, possibly a month and be supportive of her sister as you are, but don't throw away your life and some of your daughters by being in an unhealthy and unhappy home.  Seen the ramification of this in many friends, it is the kids who suffer the most later on so he is not being selfish at all by wanting to say enough is enough.


Please read my above post. This has only been since her pregnancy, not throughout their relationship. Believe their child is 4-5.. so definately not 12 years.


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## independent (Jul 6, 2011)

Muscle_Girl said:


> If you had been reading from the start, you would understand why I regard this as a sickness that she has. Its not like it was sudden that she started acting this way. Why would a woman bare a mans child just to treat him like dirt afterwards? I believe that this is a post partum depression that has spiraled into something more serious, and won't end without the right support.
> 
> Mental illness, depression in this case, is a serious thing. Most people don't realize its happening to them. Its also a difficult thing to admit to yourself, let alone others.



Ever thought theres more to the story than his interpretation? We really dont know other than speculation.


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## Muscle_Girl (Jul 6, 2011)

What else do you think it is? Its difficult for me to believe that she would just stick with the marriage being unhappy for this long. It has worn on him and eventually broken him, but if the love has been gone since she had the kid, its worn on her a whole lot more.

Just me, I wouldn't be able to put up that sort of show for that long, I can barely do it for a week. Then again, I am probably one of the most honest people on the planet, to my own detriment sometimes.


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## oufinny (Jul 6, 2011)

Muscle_Girl said:


> Please read my above post. This has only been since her pregnancy, not throughout their relationship. Believe their child is 4-5.. so definately not 12 years.



I agree it is obviously some form of depression, the alcohol usage alone in binges solidified my thoughts on that. She has a choice though, be depressed and do nothing or talk to a doctor. A reasonable time frame for her to make an appointment, keep it, and see what treatment does for her seems in order. Three months with the first two done in a month will show initiative on her part. I lived with a depressed woman, it is like living on the footsteps of he'll; especially when she does nothing about it or won't even if she knows it (I dealt with the latter, drove me to kick her out, I have no remorse either). 

Selling it to her will be the challenge.


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## ecot3c inside (Jul 6, 2011)

seems like a common problem with married men..


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## Ravager (Jul 6, 2011)

Wife's sister is still alive, she'll be out for  few more days, detoxing asleep, and hopefully makes a full recovery, who knows.

I told the wife I'm done.

She backpedaled, blamed me, started crying... I told her she's acting like a 5 year old (like she said to me when I was trying to pour my heart out)

We remained calm.

I said how long do you think you can put on this act for?? This last minute plea? She did say, maybe you're right.

Said we must remain friends, as we will still be raising our child together.

................................

Before all this the 'other woman' got all weird on me, I think she caught herself falling for a married guy and flipped some sort of switch half way through the day her texts went odd.

I told her I'm not looking to get into a relationship after a 12 year one, and that I don't chase people, so I'm not going to text her anymore........

.......................................................

Wife STILL refuses to talk to her doctor. I said if not for me, than at least do it for yourself. Nope..............

So there it is. The most faithful guy I've ever met (me) driven to cheat, still didn't have the heart to do it even with permission, weather I wanted to or not.

All I wanted was some hugs and affection.....

I feel good guys. I really do. I feel like I'm taller and wiser. One step closer to being free to find someone who deserves me. 

It's only just begun. Thanks again for everyones inputs, and for reading my long ass posts. Much appreciated!


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## Ravager (Jul 6, 2011)

Muscle_Girl said:


> Well, I am not really sure why you continue to post then. It seems as though you have already given up. Just realize, in sickness and in health.. you are turning your back on the sickness, whats to say you won't do it with the next one.



If the next one does similar acts I'll turn my back on her VERY fast.... I'm done playing these silly games.

MG, I was the only one in this relationship trying to make it work..... If another woman refuses to work on relationship woes, then she'll suffer similar fate, albeit alot faster.


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## LittleV (Jul 10, 2011)

Poor you! My sex drive is pretty healthy I think. I can barely go two days without sex! Did you and your wife ever resolve that issue?


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## DominiqueHG (Oct 10, 2011)

*Damiana and Femstim*

Hey Bud, Well recently i had a similar issue with my wife so i got my hands on some damiana root powder. It worked really well im still debating on telling her that I've given it to her but regardless I decided to buy some Femstim Female Libido Enhancement to try it out some more.


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## Ravager (Dec 16, 2013)

Wow... hurts to read this shit...... She' still a good friend (the ex), and great mom.... There is a lot more that came out from this post than can possibly be thought............


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## Ravager (Dec 16, 2013)

Ravager said:


> Sure!
> 
> Last Thursday i told her I don't want her sex anymore. I told her she must earn the right to be with me, just as much as I have to, to be with her.
> 
> ...



Priceless! Couldn't have said it better myself!


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## Ravager (Dec 16, 2013)

Here is a killer punch here.... Guys.... 

Ready for this?

I actually met someone on THIS forum that moved across country and we were very happy for over 2 years.... Unfortunately .... Gods Joke... As always... I wasn't compatible with her 3 kids.... But Elsewise I probably would have married her............ 

Bet that happens all the time on these forums though?


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## heavyiron (Dec 18, 2013)

Wow, crazy man!


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## Mistakang (Aug 31, 2014)

....wow

this thread is something else


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## Legendary (Apr 13, 2016)

good lord, I spent the last hour reading this. I feel your pain bro, my wife and I were able to fix our problems. we're back to the passionate jack rabbit sex we used to have all the time before our daughter came along. 

Happy for you Bro


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