# squatting and deadlifting for fighters



## danny81 (May 2, 2008)

WTF. ken shamrock said it is a very bad idea for fighters to do them. 

what do you guys say about it?


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## JonnyStead (May 3, 2008)

When I trained with boxers (before I decided I was too much of a nancy to get in the ring!) I didnt see hardly any heavy weight work going on - mostly  body weight exercises... Ken is a bit of a legend...


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## UFC rocks (May 3, 2008)

i thinks its because if you do them the next day your legs will be really sore, so it will be harder to train, imagen standing on your feet all day rotateing around a puch bag and hitting it, or spareing with someone and trying to push them up against the cage, with really sore legs. 

Its like JonnyStead said you dont see a lot of heavy weight work becasue they will be sore the next day making traing much harder. when i have a push day and work the shoulders and go on the puch bag the next day i find it really hard on my shoulders because they are so sore. 

But i must say, some off those MMA fighters are in really good shape, and some are really big, have you seen ken samrocks arms there huge.


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## JonnyStead (May 3, 2008)

It is insane just how big and strong, and quick those MMA guys can be - I have a huge amount of respect for them. I guess in boxing terms, you also want to be as strong and light as possible - if you pack on too much muscle on the legs you're going to go up a weight class and end up in there with some bloke who is cutting down to be that weight - which has to be bad news for your face!


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## Witchblade (May 3, 2008)

I say it's retarded. Squats and deadlifts are fundamental to strength training.


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## Nate K (May 3, 2008)

yeah they make you strenght and you want to be strong if your fighting people.

If you want to have muscle anywhere it would be the legs....why would you not want muscle on your legs.....you can always drop weight


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## JonnyStead (May 3, 2008)

Hey look I'm not Ken Shamrock you know! 

I dont fight but I know plenty of boxers and they're all a little 'top heavy' you know? big up top and little legs - just making an observation!

Its worth saying that Tito Ortiz said, when he was on TUF and someone commented on him having really thin legs "How do you think I make weight?!" so I dont think I'm just blowing smoke.


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## Goodfella9783 (May 3, 2008)

I'd say squats would be better for mixed martial artists for all that scooping and slamming, kicking, shooting for takedowns, leg submissions, and so on.

For boxing it's more about body weight exercises or light/moderately weighted exercises: pushups, situps, dips, pull ups, etc. And then a ton of running, skipping rope, I see a lot of boxers slamming huge tires with sledge hammers and doing medicine ball routines. I don't see how some light squats or deadlifts could hurt but you honestly don't see them that much for boxing. I hear a lot of guys say they stiffin them up too much (no homo). Definately see it more in the MMA training though.


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## Goodfella9783 (May 3, 2008)

YouTube Video


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## DOMS (May 3, 2008)

I started doing Krav Maga a little over a month and pretty stopped working out until yesterday.  What I had to do was carefully tailor my workouts so that they wouldn't burn me out for my Krav workouts.

I've made them very shot, in terms of time, but have kept the intensity up with the goal of still increasing my PRs.  There's no way in hell that I'd give up doing the big three (squats, deads, and bench).

I also think that it comes down to timing.  I don't think that it's sound to workout with weights (for strength) more than three times a week.  

That's just my two cents.


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## KentDog (May 3, 2008)

Goodfella9783 said:


> YouTube Video


Thanks for this video; I hadn't previously seen any footage of Judah training before, let alone during this time period (when he only had one loss). Too bad Spinks beat him.


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## Goodfella9783 (May 3, 2008)

KentDog said:


> Thanks for this video; I hadn't previously seen any footage of Judah training before, let alone during this time period (when he only had one loss). Too bad Spinks beat him.


 
No prob. This was actually before the fight where Zab knocked Spinks out, not the first fight. But yeah, Zab training footage is hard to come by.


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## danny81 (May 3, 2008)

The reason boxers are top heavy is because all your punching power comes from your upper body obliques, abs, chest, and arms


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## Goodfella9783 (May 3, 2008)

danny81 said:


> The reason boxers are top heavy is because all your punching power comes from your upper body obliques, abs, chest, and arms


 
Hips.


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## danny81 (May 3, 2008)

Yah hips too.


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## goob (May 3, 2008)

A high proportion of your punching power comes from the hips.  Legs support the hips, so strong legs will invariably help your punching power.

Danny, just keep doing them, it will make you all around stronger, and with other training, you will become better for it.


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## danny81 (May 3, 2008)

I busted my elbow in an BJJ match and i busted my wrist on some dudes head at aparty who was talking shit so i cant realy do heavy weights for a while so im doing strictly bodyweight right now.


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## CORUM (May 3, 2008)

you sound injury prone, you may want to find another profetion!!


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## KentDog (May 3, 2008)

Goodfella9783 said:


> No prob. This was actually before the fight where Zab knocked Spinks out, not the first fight. But yeah, Zab training footage is hard to come by.


Ah, even better. That was a good rematch.


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## P-funk (May 3, 2008)

I wouldn't be focusing on trying to hit 1RM's or anything like that, since it is the opposite of the goal of boxing.  But, training the lower extremity is very important.


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## CORUM (May 3, 2008)

In all honestly you can argue this all day and still not have an answer. generally you would be using or working your legs every day in MMA. some will say add to it and some would say what's the point because they are being worked everyday. sprints, shooting, throwing, lifting, and the list goes on, plus the sprints and other running exercises. You do some variety of that EVERYDAY, do you really think you need to add to that? Plus I stated before on this MMA training subject the bulkier you get, the easier you will tire out. Also you will move slower!!! No need to really add weights unless your trying to move up in weight, but then your going to meet up with guys about 20 pounds heavier than you who come down to that weight. I would seriously leave legs to a bodyweight workout. Or if you add weight I would do just the bar, and lung around then immediatly into some squats things like that. Squat jumps work WONDERS!!!!


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## danny81 (May 3, 2008)

CORUM said:


> you sound injury prone, you may want to find another profetion!!



MIKE TYSON BROKE HIS WRIST IN STREET FIGHTS ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## CORUM (May 3, 2008)

It happens!!! I've broke my hand five different times fighting, if you getting upset about that you need to work on thickening that skin before you go and try and be a fighter!!! They will say much worse!!


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## fufu (May 3, 2008)

danny81 said:


> WTF. ken shamrock said it is a very bad idea for fighters to do them.
> 
> what do you guys say about it?



Ken Shamrock isn't an exercise physiologist. 

They can most definitely be incorperated into a fighter's training program.


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## AKIRA (May 3, 2008)

Id never really take the advice of Ken Shamrock.

The only thing I can think of that would make his statement logical is to avoid injury.


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## CORUM (May 3, 2008)

Oh plus about Ken Shamrock, did you see the size of his legs when he fought kimo? They didn't get that way with out lifting I's sure he did serious squats, but I always feel his cardio is lacking, he big ass hell but look at him after one round! it was better when he was younger. EARLY UFC days, but he wasn't near as big then. Bottom line what works for one person wont work for another, try it out and see how you feel. Go to a small show and try to get on the card and see how you do. You have to test yourself!! and see how the squats and deadlifts work for you. If it makes you too bulky and slows you down and you get tired quicker try something different. Good Luck!!!


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## P-funk (May 3, 2008)

fufu said:


> Ken Shamrock isn't an exercise physiologist.
> 
> They can most definitely be incorperated into a fighter's training program.



this man speaks the truth!

The thing to remeber about training for any sport....fighting, boxing, football, baseball, whatever.....is that you have to understand the characteristics of the sport and how they apply to the athlete you are working with.  This comes down to your testing of the athlete and determination of what their limiting factors are.  Training for powerlifting or training for bodybuilding, are probably not going to be the best ways to prepare for a match.  You have to understand your sport in order to apply the training.


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## P-funk (May 3, 2008)

CORUM said:


> Oh plus about Ken Shamrock, did you see the size of his legs when he fought kimo? They didn't get that way with out lifting I's sure he did serious squats, but I always feel his cardio is lacking, he big ass hell but look at him after one round! it was better when he was younger. EARLY UFC days, but he wasn't near as big then. Bottom line what works for one person wont work for another, try it out and see how you feel. Go to a small show and try to get on the card and see how you do. You have to test yourself!! and see how the squats and deadlifts work for you. If it makes you too bulky and slows you down and you get tired quicker try something different. Good Luck!!!



bulky and slow are side effects of improper training prescription.


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## CORUM (May 3, 2008)

WOW Pfunk to think I could have said what you said and got my point accross, and alot shorter 2!!! LOL Well said!!


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## CORUM (May 3, 2008)

Once again what I was trying to say!!! lol


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## CORUM (May 3, 2008)

Let me ask though, how many Bodybuilders do you knwo that have endurance and speed? Honesty question, I really do not know they dont look like they would be very quick to me. And I know the more muscle bound guys tire out quicker in the fight, unless your name is Sean Sherk and he is a FREAK!!!!


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## P-funk (May 3, 2008)

CORUM said:


> Let me ask though, how many Bodybuilders do you knwo that have endurance and speed? Honesty question, I really do not know they dont look like they would be very quick to me. And I know the more muscle bound guys tire out quicker in the fight, unless your name is Sean Sherk and he is a FREAK!!!!



read my post above the last one.....improper exercise prescription leads to improper results....bodybuilders train different than athletes.


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## CORUM (May 3, 2008)

Ok I thought that's what you was getting at, just wanted clarity!! I thought you was saying you can do both, and if that was possible I wanted to know. I think Sean Sherk is one of the closest fighters I have seen combine bulk and athletism. 

I was trying to tell danny81, to stay away from bodybuilder type training if his goals are to be a fighter cause like you said they are different focus. That is why I tend to stay away from things I feel will slow me down or hurt endurance. What I got from your post is if it is incorporated properly it could be done. So how would you recommend incorporating things like the squat and deadlift into training that requires so much leg work Daily?


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## Goodfella9783 (May 3, 2008)

P-funk said:


> The thing to remeber about training for any sport....fighting, boxing, football, baseball, whatever.....is that you have to understand the characteristics of the sport and how they apply to the athlete you are working with. This comes down to your testing of the athlete and determination of what their limiting factors are. Training for powerlifting or training for bodybuilding, are probably not going to be the best ways to prepare for a match. You have to understand your sport in order to apply the training.


 
Great post.


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## CORUM (May 3, 2008)

Nevermind, I reread what you said and understood it. I said something similar. Try it out and see what works for you!! 100%agree!! lol


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## P-funk (May 3, 2008)

CORUM said:


> Ok I thought that's what you was getting at, just wanted clarity!! I thought you was saying you can do both, and if that was possible I wanted to know. I think Sean Sherk is one of the closest fighters I have seen combine bulk and athletism.
> 
> I was trying to tell danny81, to stay away from bodybuilder type training if his goals are to be a fighter cause like you said they are different focus. That is why I tend to stay away from things I feel will slow me down or hurt endurance. What I got from your post is if it is incorporated properly it could be done. So how would you recommend incorporating things like the squat and deadlift into training that requires so much leg work Daily?




It doesn't have to require a lot of leg work daily.  Also, it doesn't have to require heavy leg work daily.

It just has to have enough leg work to get a stimulus.  Some of that is going to be on his part, since he will have to see what he can handle and recover from.  Also, I don't know how many days a week he is performing his fight training.  And, is he training fora  specific competition or just training to train.  All of these things have to be considered.


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## CORUM (May 3, 2008)

Got you, I was basing my opinion of some of the normal training with MMA. Boxing one day, Wrestling and Grappling the next. Or a split of boxing in the morning and the other in the evening every other day. So I would say what about 3 times a week. I guess you could work in weights the other two days.


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## P-funk (May 3, 2008)

2-3x's a week is about right.


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## CORUM (May 3, 2008)

Ok, also it was hard for me to figure leg days in because I was doing MMA training and I was in the Army at the same time. I would run anywhere from 4-10 miles in the morning almost everyday of the week, one day would be 6-12 mile roadmarch. Then in the evening I would go to the gym and do my drills. That was about 5 days a week. THATS ALOT ON THE LEGS!!! After the runs and stuff I did my push ups und crunches. Sometimes the mornings were changed up to some sprints or Fartlic (sp?) runs but rarely! I can't base mine off his, but when I was training it was hard on the knees and legs!


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## danny81 (May 3, 2008)

CORUM said:


> It happens!!! I've broke my hand five different times fighting, if you getting upset about that you need to work on thickening that skin before you go and try and be a fighter!!! They will say much worse!!



Dont worry I am. I started hitting my heavybag bareknuckle to harden the skiin on my knuckles.


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## CORUM (May 3, 2008)

LOL I didn't mean literally!!! lol But thats good to toughen your hands especially if you want to go to Vale Tudo (sp?) but I meant don't get so worked up over comments, because anyone who fights breaks something!! GOOD LUCK!!!


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## mannyb (May 3, 2008)

ive been training mma for about 9 months now for fun n i never trained legs a day in my life. mostly jus running n skipping rope for cardio. but i recently joined a BJJ class n to tell u the truth my legs r so weak. man, do i regret that. so yes i do legs. i dont go heavy i jus do more reps. dont listen to ken shamrock! he sucks. he jus a stand up guy. now days u gotta be able to stand n roll if it comes to that.


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## danny81 (May 3, 2008)

^^^^ummm no. hes more of a grappler.


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## danny81 (May 3, 2008)

CORUM said:


> LOL I didn't mean literally!!! lol But thats good to toughen your hands especially if you want to go to Vale Tudo (sp?) but I meant don't get so worked up over comments, because anyone who fights breaks something!! GOOD LUCK!!!



oo werd lol. I have anger problems. i fight real easy.


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## CORUM (May 3, 2008)

mannyb youve been doing MMA for 9 months and just now getting into a BJJ class????That would have been one of the first things i did!! but i did BJJ for 6 years. loved it, but haven't found a gym with in distance from where i am. so fell off about 2 years ago!

and danny you need to fix the anger if you want to be a fighter (pro) they will get in your head they want you mad and you will make a mistake!!!


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## danny81 (May 3, 2008)

Lol not that easy I dont want to look like a bitch ya digz?


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## CORUM (May 3, 2008)

Ok a question you can ask "Am I a Badass or do I just want to look like one?" Trust me not easy, but I know I can win why do I have to prove it? If you think you can whoop my ass put your money where your mouth is!! Get it?


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## P-funk (May 3, 2008)

Don't waste your time with Danny.  it will get you no where.  that is why i wont help him out anymore and answer his stupid threads.


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## CORUM (May 3, 2008)

Ok P-Funk, guess some know and some think they know!! Danny I guess I will be done with this thread, but I will tell you one day you will KNOW. Good Luck, with the fight game!!


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