# Carb Cycling Bulk Diet Critique



## ddawg (Jun 10, 2006)

I'm about to start a really clean carb cycling bulk and I wanted to get an idea of how good it is. I'm 20 years old, 6'0 and 170 pounds (skinny fat). I plan on doing this type of schedule:

*Monday and Thursday--High Carb*--3074 Calories/90g Fat/314g Carbs/261g Protein--41/34/25 carb/protein/fat split

*Tuesday and Friday--Medium Carb*--2834 Calories/93g Fat/242g Carbs/257g Protein--34/36/30 carb/protein/fat split

*Wed./Sat./Sunday--Low Carb*--2600 Calories/96g Fat/176g Carbs/250g Protein--27/38/35 carb/protein/fat

I'm going to post my high carb day so you guys can see what I'll be eating. It will be pretty much the same thing just with less carbs on the other days and a different dinner:

*HIGH CARB---calories/fat/carbs/protein*
7:00--Pre-Workout
5 Egg Whites
25g Chicken Breast
120g Oatmeal

608/11/81/45

9:30 PWO
1 Cup Skim Milk
115g Banana
30g Whey
65g Oatmeal

562/7/85/44

10:30 PPWO
25g Chicken Breast
1 Cup Skim Milk
80g Oatmeal
1/4 Cup Blueberries

474/7/75/29

12:30
2 Fish Oil Pills
1 Tsp. Olive Oil
40g Oatmeal
5 Egg Whites
14g Whey

355/10/29/35

2:30
2 Natural Cheese Sticks
20g Walnuts
15g Almonds

342/26/6/25

5:00
12g Whey
1 Cup Skim Milk
2 Fish Oil Pills
1/2 Tbs. Olive Oil

218/10/13/18

7:30
8oz Tilapia
200g Frozen Green Beans
170g Lettuce

313/4/21/49

10:00
25g Chicken Breast
1 Tbs. Olive Oil
10g Whey

200/15/1/16

Totals 3074 Calories/90g Fat/314g Carbs/261g Protein
__________________


----------



## VanessaNicole (Jun 10, 2006)

Why a carb cycle bulk?

The whole point of carb cycling is to keep levels of leptin up so your metabolism doesn't decrease to the same extent as with consistent resitricted calorie dieting. This is so you can lose weight.

Why do you have three low carb days? Your average calories per day here are 2,800. That's about 200 calories above maintenance for you. 

This is not a good bulking diet. You need to consume an average of at least 3,200 calories a day.

Just eat a clean, high calorie, high density diet every day.

VanessaNicole


----------



## ddawg (Jun 10, 2006)

VanessaNicole said:
			
		

> Why a carb cycle bulk?
> 
> The whole point of carb cycling is to keep levels of leptin up so your metabolism doesn't decrease to the same extent as with consistent resitricted calorie dieting. This is so you can lose weight.
> 
> ...




The only reason I was doing carb cycling was because I wanted to do a really clean bulk and so my three off days were going to be those 3 lower carb days.  So I shouldn't lower my carbs on off days?  Like today for example when all I did was chill at the house all day, do I really need 300+ carbs?  So what daily macro split and calorie range would you guys recommend for someone skinny fat like me that wants really clean gains and should I eat that everyday?

Also are the food choices I posted good?


----------



## Emma-Leigh (Jun 10, 2006)

ddawg said:
			
		

> I'm about to start a really clean carb cycling bulk and I wanted to get an idea of how good it is. I'm 20 years old, 6'0 and 170 pounds (skinny fat). I plan on doing this type of schedule:
> 
> *Monday and Thursday--High Carb*--3074 Calories/90g Fat/314g Carbs/261g Protein--41/34/25 carb/protein/fat split
> 
> ...


I don't think that carb cycling while bulking is an altogether bad idea... As long as your total calorie intake is above maintainence then 'zig zagging' is fine.

And your outline looks ok.... I would decrease protein slightly (260g is a lot for someone who is your size and "skinny fat") and increase carbs slightly - especially on your 'higher carb' days..

So set protein to ~1.5g x desired lean mass  (eg: if you are 170 and 17% now you have 140 pounds lean mass... but say you want to get to 150 pounds lean mass... so you set your protein intake to 225). Then redistribute your cals to carbs.

eg:
High - 3050 cals, 355-370g carbs, 225g protein, 80g fat
Med - 2850 cals, 270-300g carbs, 225g protein, 90g fat
Low - 2600 cals, 185-200g carbs, 225g protein, 100g fat





> *HIGH CARB---calories/fat/carbs/protein*
> 7:00--Pre-Workout
> 5 Egg Whites
> 25g Chicken Breast
> ...


This looks fine... But how soon after eating this will you be working out?? If it is closer than ~1.25-1.5 hrs you may want to re-think it and go for something that is faster to digest (especially because you are working out first thing in the morning)...



> 9:30 PWO
> 1 Cup Skim Milk
> 115g Banana
> 30g Whey
> ...


Looks fine.....  Although I would take advantage of non-starchy carb sources PWO on high carb days (eg: why not invest in some sweettarts.  ).




> 10:30 PPWO
> 25g Chicken Breast
> 1 Cup Skim Milk
> 80g Oatmeal
> ...


Not too bad...  I would leave out the milk. Add some healthy fats too. And I would also add some vegetables.You might also want to increase your complete protein...



> 12:30
> 2 Fish Oil Pills
> 1 Tsp. Olive Oil
> 40g Oatmeal
> ...


Boy can not live on oats alone.... (translation: pick another carb source!!).
Add vegetables. 

Add vegetables.



> 2:30
> 2 Natural Cheese Sticks
> 20g Walnuts
> 15g Almonds
> ...


Decrease your fats - spread your fats over all your meals except pre and post workout.

Add something like fruit or vegetables here too.

And increase protein slightly.



> 5:00
> 12g Whey
> 1 Cup Skim Milk
> 2 Fish Oil Pills
> ...


I would not use milk... Highly insulinogenic and I usually suggest people keep it pre/post workout. 

Add fruit/vegetables.



> 7:30
> 8oz Tilapia
> 200g Frozen Green Beans
> 170g Lettuce
> ...


Add fats. Decrease protein slightly (spread it evenly).



> 10:00
> 25g Chicken Breast
> 1 Tbs. Olive Oil
> 10g Whey
> ...


Errmmm.... Why not just use chicken?? Or something like a slower digesting protein (eg: caesin)?


----------



## ddawg (Jun 10, 2006)

What are some other non starch carbs?


----------



## ddawg (Jun 10, 2006)

So would carb cycling be better than equal amounts every day?


----------



## Jodi (Jun 11, 2006)

ddawg said:
			
		

> So would carb cycling be better than equal amounts every day?


It's great to keep fat gain at bay and ensure quality LBM


----------



## ddawg (Jun 11, 2006)

Jodi said:
			
		

> It's great to keep fat gain at bay and ensure quality LBM




I think I'm going to try the carb cycling type thing that Emma suggested:

High - 3050 cals, 355-370g carbs, 225g protein, 80g fat
Med - 2850 cals, 270-300g carbs, 225g protein, 90g fat
Low - 2600 cals, 185-200g carbs, 225g protein, 100g fat

It basically works out to this split on the days:  carb/protein/fat
High--45/32/24-----------370g carbs
Medium--35/35/30--------250g carbs
Low--30/36/34----------200g carbs

I'll be working out 4 days a week and have those 4 days be my 2 high and 2 medium days.  Then on the other 3 days I'll have my low days.  What I did for my low days is since I won't be doing too much, I put most of my carbs in my first 3-4 meals and then my final 2-3 meals are just mainy fat/protein/veggies.  

I have one question though....when I average these numbers out, it comes out to about 2900 calories/day a week.  When I need to start taking in more calories, which days should I adjust and which macro should it be???  Thanks!


----------



## ddawg (Jun 11, 2006)

Emma, the reason my protein is so high is that I try to have 7 meals a day and in each meal I try to get atleast 15g complete protein in each meal.  In addition to this, I get protein from incomplete sources which come from my carbs like oatmeal.  If I need to decrease my protein, what other macro should I increase in order to get enough calories to gain.....fat or carbs?

Basically, what should be my carb/protein/fat macro split on my 3 days.....high,medium,low?


----------



## Emma-Leigh (Jun 11, 2006)

ddawg said:
			
		

> Emma, the reason my protein is so high is that I try to have 7 meals a day and in each meal I try to get atleast 15g complete protein in each meal.  In addition to this, I get protein from incomplete sources which come from my carbs like oatmeal.


 Which is why you should consider swapping some of your oats to something with less protein so you can get a better quality protein source.

eg: pre workout what about replacing some of the oats with some fruit or plain fat-free natural yoghurt?

In your PWO shake - the non-starchy carbs I was talking about would be dextrose or sources of this (eg: smarties, sweettarts, spree...  ). As you are haivng a banana I wouldn't get anything with too much sucrose in it - so try to look for pure dextrose or glucose syrup.

On your medium carb days you could try things like rice crackers, cooked white rice (mmm.... protein rice pudding...  )... things like that. 




> If I need to decrease my protein, what other macro should I increase in order to get enough calories to gain.....fat or carbs?
> 
> Basically, what should be my carb/protein/fat macro split on my 3 days.....high,medium,low?


Firstly - I don't like % - I go by body weight/lean mass... % mean jack all...

What I suggested above is what I would suggest you do (if you wanted to keep fats higher). But I usually like to see fats lower on high carb days (minimum of about 50g or less)... So if you wanted fats a little lower then something like:
High: 3050 cals, 415-430g carbs, 225g protein, 50-55g fat (which, if you must know, is 55: 30: 15)
Med: 2850 cals, 300-320g carbs, 225g protein, 80g fat (roughly 45: 30: 25)
Low: 2600 cals, 200-220g carbs, 225g protein, 95g fat (roughly 33: 33: 33)


----------



## Emma-Leigh (Jun 11, 2006)

ddawg said:
			
		

> I have one question though....when I average these numbers out, it comes out to about 2900 calories/day a week.  When I need to start taking in more calories, which days should I adjust and which macro should it be???  Thanks!


You don't need more protein - so it would be carbs/fats... And I would bump up carbs on high carb day.... both on medium... and primarily fats on low carb days.


----------



## aidmen (Jul 1, 2011)

i know it's an old thread but i wanted to know how it worked for you since i wanted to try it this way myself instead of just following 60/25/15


----------



## Built (Jul 1, 2011)

aidmen said:


> i know it's an old thread but i wanted to know how it worked for you since i wanted to try it this way myself instead of just following 60/25/15


What's 60/25/15 mean to you, aidmen? How many calories, and how many grams of protein, carb and fat? How tall are you and what do you weigh? And how much do you intend to gain on your current bulk?


----------



## aidmen (Jul 1, 2011)

means around 500gr carbs, 225gr proteine and around 50grams fat for 3300kcal
i'm 5ft9 and 169pounds at 12%bodyfat
my intention is to gain around 5kg of lean bodymass but try to keep my bodyfat the same


----------



## Built (Jul 1, 2011)

aidmen said:


> means around 500gr carbs, 225gr proteine and around 50grams fat for 3300kcal
> i'm 5ft9 and 169pounds at 12%bodyfat
> my intention is to gain around 5kg of lean bodymass but try to keep my bodyfat the same



Okay, cool. You've got about 150 lbs of lean mass, and assuming you're natural, you might consider bringing up your fats a bit. I usually suggest at least a half a gram of fat per pound lean mass, which for you means 75g as a minimum. (I like my fats higher, but I'm female and fats help me feel full so it's easier to keep my calories under control). Other than this, if you're bulking, you just want to increase your calories. 

If you only want to gain muscle, you'll need to do this very slowly because gaining muscle almost always "costs" you a bit of fat gain as well. You might want to check out Martin Berkhan's leangains site, or investigate Lyle McDonald's UD2.0 if this is the tack you intend to take. As I said, maddeningly slow, but fewer wardrobe changes and no "fatass" period. 

Good luck and welcome to the forum.


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 1, 2011)

I thought Intermittent Fasting could only be used for fat loss-you can do it for a clean bulk? Can you tell how?


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 1, 2011)

Also MA, is it possible to do weight training in an 18 hour fasted state AND also do cardio after weight training, then begin the post workout meal?


----------



## Built (Jul 1, 2011)

jugg, read Martin Berkhan's site. He's forgotten more than I know on this topic.


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 1, 2011)

I did. Found something verrrrry interesting:

Fasted Training Boosts Muscle Growth? | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health


----------



## sassy69 (Jul 1, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> I did. Found something verrrrry interesting:
> 
> Fasted Training Boosts Muscle Growth? | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health



IF is really interesting - I've got some friends who are veritable fiends for Crossfit & Paleo dieting who love it and live it, some w/ some insane fasting periods, while still doing insane amounts of training both fast & heavy. 

I did try it earlier this year - lasted about 8-9 days before some scheduling & stress issues made the fasting period more miserable than anything. Prior to that, I found it very easy to adapt to. Personally, I still find the multiple small meals to be more in my comfort zone.


----------



## Built (Jul 1, 2011)

You have the multiple meals thing down to an art-form, I think. It's been normal for you for so long, and it's worked for you so I can't see why you'd want to change it.


----------



## sassy69 (Jul 1, 2011)

Built said:


> You have the multiple meals thing down to an art-form, I think. It's been normal for you for so long, and it's worked for you so I can't see why you'd want to change it.



Its definitely more of a lifestyle thing, just as IF'ing is. That said, this year will be a year of massive change in many things lifestyle-wise for me. I don't really seeing IF'ing as something I'll do before December, but beyond that, it might become appropriate.


----------



## mattrag (Jul 1, 2011)

I use the UD2 and this time i'm using the IF during the low cal days and I must say it helps. 

I'd say for bulking though, if you're not used to eating 3000 cals you might wanna space it out more. I don't think it's a good idea to be on bulk and be eating less than you want to be eating per "sitting", Eating every 3hrs is not NEEDED persay unless either 1 you are on gear, or 2 you are clearly at your genetic limit and don't want to use ever.


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 1, 2011)

sassy69 said:


> IF is really interesting - I've got some friends who are veritable fiends for Crossfit & Paleo dieting who love it and live it, some w/ some insane fasting periods, while still doing insane amounts of training both fast & heavy.
> 
> I did try it earlier this year - lasted about 8-9 days before some scheduling & stress issues made the fasting period more miserable than anything. Prior to that, I found it very easy to adapt to. Personally, I still find the multiple small meals to be more in my comfort zone.



Sassy, how did you setup your macro-structure? I'm having a real pain in the ass setting it for a possible shot at it. And what percentages should I use for protein, fat and carbs?


----------



## Built (Jul 1, 2011)

Jugg, two questions. First, what is the difficulty you are having with this, and second, why percentages?


----------



## aidmen (Jul 2, 2011)

they both kinda look like the diet i did for almost a year
exept i didn't fast but only ate veggies and proteines for my meals and in weekends sometimes a cheat meal or junk food.
it does make you lean out good, i was at 6,4% but it did make me lose 10kg of pure musclemass to.
so for bulking i'm a little sceptic.
i understand it's a 16hour fast but it doesn't say how much calories to take in
does it mean i should implement my 3300 cals and amount of carbs,proteine,fats in those 8hours instead of spliting them over the entire day?


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 2, 2011)

Built said:


> Jugg, two questions. First, what is the difficulty you are having with this, and second, why percentages?



The problem I'm having is exactly how to portion my carbs, protein and fat inside of the 9 hour window, in which case I meant percentages-40% protein, 30% carbs and 30% fat would be my guess. The other debacle I'm running into is to how to divide the portions to ascertain the needed caloric requirement to meet my needs. 
Also, the first meal should generally fast digesting carbs with protein-especially after training, yes?


----------



## aidmen (Jul 2, 2011)

the plan i made up from this post is high 445/225/35 3050kcal
medium 300/225/80 2810kcal
and low 144/225/90 2300kcal
and mayby a no carb day on my off day
does that look any good?

or is it better to just go high,low,high,low,high,low,high+ with the high+ being a cheat meal


----------



## Built (Jul 2, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> The problem I'm having is exactly how to portion my carbs, protein and fat inside of the 9 hour window, in which case I meant percentages-40% protein, 30% carbs and 30% fat would be my guess. The other debacle I'm running into is to how to divide the portions to ascertain the needed caloric requirement to meet my needs.
> Also, the first meal should generally fast digesting carbs with protein-especially after training, yes?



Again with the percentages. Why would it matter? It's cals in, cals out my friend. I don't know why you'd want fast carbs for your first meal. Is it for the insulin? You only need whey protein for that part. 

Jugg, just set up your macros for the day, pack your food, and eat what you've packed. I don't believe for a moment anything matters nearly as much as that. 


aidmen said:


> they both kinda look like the diet i did for almost a year
> exept i didn't fast but only ate veggies and proteines for my meals and in weekends sometimes a cheat meal or junk food.
> it does make you lean out good, i was at 6,4% but it did make me lose 10kg of pure musclemass to.
> so for bulking i'm a little sceptic.
> ...



You lost ten kilos of muscle? First off, how do you know this and second and third, what kind of deficit did you run and how did you train? 





aidmen said:


> the plan i made up from this post is high 445/225/35 3050kcal
> medium 300/225/80 2810kcal
> and low 144/225/90 2300kcal
> and mayby a no carb day on my off day
> ...



Personally, I see no purpose in high-med-low. Just go hi-low and be done with it. I like the one high+ like you've suggested, if you can afford the cheat calories.


----------



## aidmen (Jul 2, 2011)

i know it's muscle cause it was after a contest and i was 91kg at 4% and now i'm 77kg and 12%.
i know it's my own fault being in a deficit for way to long.
i ran around only 1600kcal each day for over a year trying to stay lean but also burning of precious muscle mass and actually getting more skinny and 'fatter'
i use a 5day split now training around 50min with about 3x20min of cardio each week.
i gain easely and used to bulk and cut from 102kg back to 89kg but stopped contests so only want to get some lean extra mass back.
and reading up on all those different 'diets' just makes it all very confusing.


----------



## Built (Jul 2, 2011)

The actual arrangement of the diet matters little when compared with the macros you intend to run, and the rate at which you gain. If you gain too fast, you'll get fatter. If you get fatter, dial back the calories a bit and grow into your weight before you resume a caloric excess. 

Does this help?


----------



## aidmen (Jul 3, 2011)

so you mean it doesn't matter how you split the c/p/f but the calories is what matter?
or the proposition isn't a good one to try out


----------



## Built (Jul 3, 2011)

aidmen said:


> so you mean it doesn't matter how you split the c/p/f but the calories is what matter?
> or the proposition isn't a good one to try out




Once you eat sufficient protein to support anabolism and your training, and sufficient fat to support proper endocrine function etc, the rest comes down to your calories, correct. 

In broad strokes, this is 80% of it: 


Decide upon a calorie-limit
ensure protein > 1g/lb lean mass
ensure fat > 0.5g/lb lean mass
ensure fibre > 25g daily
Decide when you will eat your meals, and how many you will eat each day - this is mostly based on comfort and convenience. 
Feed your workouts - I like to get in a light meal about an hour before I train, and a nice big heavy meal afterward.

The other 20% is the mental masturbation of macronutrient timing, carb cycling, pre and postworkout nutrition, meal timing, meal frequency, food selection and supplementation. Oh and your training.


----------



## aidmen (Jul 3, 2011)

Built said:


> Once you eat sufficient protein to support anabolism and your training, and sufficient fat to support proper endocrine function etc, the rest comes down to your calories, correct.
> 
> In broad strokes, this is 80% of it:
> 
> ...


 
1.well the limit is 3050kcal on high days but i thought on those days i needed to keep fats low cause of the big amount of carbs and high fats would raise calories
on both days i go for 225g of proteine and on low days 90-95g of fat

4. i eat about 600-800g of veggies every day so fibre should be ok
5. eating every 2-2,5hours with mostly pre workout 60-80gr of oatmeal with 25gr of proteinepowder right after take my amino's and 40gr of waxy maize, 15-20min later 40g of whey and caseine and 30min later a normal meal.(biggest one of the day)
always try to get the most nutrition pre workout and the 2 first meals post workout
last meal of the days i keep it to proteine and fiburous carbs and before bed some caseine on low days and quark on high days.
normally plan each day one day in advance so i reach my right calories.


----------



## Built (Jul 3, 2011)

aidmen said:


> 1.well the limit is 3050kcal on high days but i thought on those days i needed to keep fats low cause of the big amount of carbs and high fats would raise calories
> on both days i go for 225g of proteine and on low days 90-95g of fat


Work out the weekly average, and split it up as you see fit. 


aidmen said:


> 4. i eat about 600-800g of veggies every day so fibre should be ok
> 5. eating every 2-2,5hours with mostly pre workout 60-80gr of oatmeal with 25gr of proteinepowder right after take my amino's and 40gr of waxy maize, 15-20min later 40g of whey and caseine and 30min later a normal meal.(biggest one of the day)
> always try to get the most nutrition pre workout and the 2 first meals post workout
> last meal of the days i keep it to proteine and fiburous carbs and before bed some caseine on low days and quark on high days.
> normally plan each day one day in advance so i reach my right calories.



Happy bulking.


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 4, 2011)

MA, I've been tooling around with using just whey before my workouts and using IF for 16 hours, I have to say that just by doing this, my workouts have been incredible. My strength gets better on an empty stomach with just whey prior to the workout. The day after, I feel the muscles being worked more so than with food in my stomach on the days that I trained. 

Why?


----------



## Built (Jul 4, 2011)

My guess would be the combination of fast-absorbing whey and the insulin response whey proteins induce. You're storing hepatic glucose and protein right before you train. Maybe others have competing conjectures?


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 4, 2011)

So I'm storing literal energy in the liver (or the veins leading to the liver) and using it for training, as it gets refilled after with my post workout carbs/protein?


----------



## Built (Jul 4, 2011)

Hmmm. I was more thinking of postprandial hepatic gluconeogenesis, combined with the insulin response due to BCAAs in the whey. IE knock back a shake, your liver releases glucose and your pancreas releases insulin. You then store protein and a bit of glucose in your muscles, and of course begin your workout with plenty of amino acids available.


----------



## LightBearer (Jul 4, 2011)

Built said:


> Again with the percentages. Why would it matter? It's cals in, cals out my friend. I don't know why you'd want fast carbs for your first meal. Is it for the insulin? You only need whey protein


Can I just butt in for a second, 
a cal is a cal, so why would it matter if someone ate fast carbs in the first meal?  and is whey protein enough of an insulin spike for post workout, negating the need for a pwo carb?  
i thought i may have read that you drink whey with every meal but didnt understand why, if i got that right, can you explain this to me?
thanks for your time again!!


----------



## Built (Jul 4, 2011)

LightBearer said:


> Can I just butt in for a second,
> a cal is a cal, so why would it matter if someone ate fast carbs in the first meal?



Appetite control. If this isn't a problem, by all means, eat a snickers bar for breakfast. 



LightBearer said:


> and is whey protein enough of an insulin spike for post workout, negating the need for a pwo carb?



In my opinion, yes. 


LightBearer said:


> i thought i may have read that you drink whey with every meal but didnt understand why, if i got that right, can you explain this to me?
> thanks for your time again!!



I do it for appetite control. It fixes my otherwise impaired first-phase insulin response, and the extra protein promotes satiety.


----------



## aidmen (Jul 7, 2011)

decided to try the lean gain method
eating all my cal after a 16h fast having my biggest and first meal post workout around 1pm
started the diet today
just had my post workout meal being : 300gr cooked brown rice,100gr turkeybreast,100gr broccoli and some sauce
45min before that i had my shake with 50g waxymaize and 40gr/whey/caseine
was about 50% of my total calorie intake
what is your guys oppinion about carb backloading towards the evening?
or do you have another big meal before the fast starts again, also containing complex carbs or just starchy ones?
or you prefer 2 smaller meals like 30-20% of the other calories?

on non workout days i cut out complex carbs and replace them with veggies and low gi fruits lowering carbs from 422 to 100 and raising fats from 45 to 105
already feel a lot more focused since i fasted yesterday with only a big meal before bed, kinda a warrior day


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 7, 2011)

Waxymaize? People still buy that stuff?


----------



## aidmen (Jul 7, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> Waxymaize? People still buy that stuff?


 no but i had some left and to get in 422carbs in 8hours it fit's in perfectly


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 7, 2011)

aidmen said:


> no but i had some left and to get in 422carbs in 8hours it fit's in perfectly


what's wrong with nutrient dense carbs?


----------



## aidmen (Jul 7, 2011)

i keep them for the other 2meals replacing the complex carbs with lentils,beans,
and trying to not feel bloated after the first meal


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 7, 2011)

uhhh...ok.


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 7, 2011)

Are you doing CKD or UD2?


----------



## aidmen (Jul 7, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> Are you doing CKD or UD2?


 i don't use either of them

i just do 1.5gr proteine per lbs of bodyweight on training and non training days
exept do 400carbs/35fat on training 
and 100carbs/100fat on off days
making it a +10% and -20%
seeying how that works and if i don't gain will up the carbs first on training and than on off days


----------



## Built (Jul 7, 2011)

Interesting discussion. Aidmen, looks like you're working this out nicely.


----------



## aidmen (Jul 7, 2011)

Built said:


> Interesting discussion. Aidmen, looks like you're working this out nicely.


 
well i've been studying the lean gain , warrior diet since yesterday morning 10am untill midnight and i'm still reading up on it
slowly getting there
i dropped the warrior style exept mayby on a workday when i do 24shifts and dont have to keep dragging along tons of tupperware containers like i used to and just have one big blow out around 18 
mental focus and energy already a lot better since i started fasting yesterday and just love those 3big meals i can eat now
finally again the feeling of satisfaction
if the results are going to be the same i'm sold 

just had my second meal : 400gr tomatoe,200gr colliflower,100gr beans,2pieces of dark bread with jam,400gr low fat yoghurt with 100/100g cherries,strawberries and half a can of tuna


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 7, 2011)

Damn. I wish I could have the amount of carbs you take in!


----------



## aidmen (Jul 7, 2011)

when you make most of them fiberous carbs it does look like a lot 
when its only like the same as 400gr cooked rice.
but 3of those meals 3times a day in 8hours does feel good.


----------



## sassy69 (Jul 7, 2011)

Let us know how you like it - I know a number of people who LOVE this approach(Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health) and are shredded.


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 7, 2011)

aidmen said:


> when you make most of them fiberous carbs it does look like a lot
> when its only like the same as 400gr cooked rice.
> but 3of those meals 3times a day in 8hours does feel good.



I've gone up to 1000+ with cutting. It's a sucky feeling the day after. You feel "expanded".


----------



## aidmen (Jul 8, 2011)

i'll keep track of my progress on my bb.com space.
@juggernaut : what you mean with 1000+
i guess for cutting its not 1000cal each meal

and i never had any trouble eating big amounts of food
i got that after bulking on 5000kcal when i still competed
drawback is i never get a feeling of haven eaten enough anymore, so buffets i eat untill not even a drop of water can fit in my stomach, so +10-15000cal in one meal goes easy for me and when i was at 6% and i got a 'eating attack' i could eat 4hours straight full of junk food

so with the IF i can eat 3large meals and do feel i have eaten and can stop , that wasn't the case when i was eating 8meals a day.
so that's another plus on the IF.


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 8, 2011)

I mean 1000g of carbs alone. Of course for the 36 hour period, my fats went incredibly low, and protein-just about 1.0g per pound of lean mass. It's all in the UD2-which can be used for bulking as well. I plan on trying it this year after my show. 
I did however bulk a figure girl using a CKD approach with higher fat and protein. It worked incredibly well. She has a similar metabolism that I do. Sucks, because I love carbs so much. I did however, get that same feeling of not feeling completely satisfied or full after eating a shit ton of carbs.


----------



## aidmen (Jul 8, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> I mean 1000g of carbs alone. Of course for the 36 hour period, my fats went incredibly low, and protein-just about 1.0g per pound of lean mass. It's all in the UD2-which can be used for bulking as well. I plan on trying it this year after my show.
> I did however bulk a figure girl using a CKD approach with higher fat and protein. It worked incredibly well. She has a similar metabolism that I do. Sucks, because I love carbs so much. I did however, get that same feeling of not feeling completely satisfied or full after eating a shit ton of carbs.


 
1000g of carbs spread over 36hours should still be easy for you if you love them so much, speacally after a week of low carbs 
kinda what i did for a year on my own.
living for 6days on veggies and meat and than one day of enjoying other things
but i lost so much mass on it aswell i'd only use it for deep cutting and no more than a few months.
but i guess the diet is little different than what i did.
hope you'll post a log of it so we can see how it goes.


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 8, 2011)

I have a log in my sig. 
Most likely you didnt include a great amount of fat. Meat and vegetable is nice, but you NEED EFAs. They help to prevent muscle wasting.


----------



## aidmen (Jul 8, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> I have a log in my sig.
> Most likely you didnt include a great amount of fat. Meat and vegetable is nice, but you NEED EFAs. They help to prevent muscle wasting.


 
i did include fats
olive oil, and nuts with every meal and flaxseedoil before bed, guess still not enough.
but it does work wonders for cutting.


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 8, 2011)

aidmen said:


> i did include fats
> olive oil, and nuts with every meal and flaxseedoil before bed, guess still not enough.
> but it does work wonders for cutting.



Just to give you an idea, I'm about 238-230 right now. Down from 256 in January. My daily fats hit about 120-130 every day. In fact, I justmade a protein pudding with 2oz of almonds as a snack as I type this.
Might want to start looking at that portion of your intake a bit closer.


----------



## aidmen (Jul 8, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> Just to give you an idea, I'm about 238-230 right now. Down from 256 in January. My daily fats hit about 120-130 every day. In fact, I justmade a protein pudding with 2oz of almonds as a snack as I type this.
> Might want to start looking at that portion of your intake a bit closer.


 
i guess i was to low on the fat part.
but i'll have to check your log to get more into the UD2 since i only got the general idea about it


----------



## juggernaut (Jul 8, 2011)

I can assist you if you're interested. I'll run the numbers if you like. You should buy the book to get the entire gist of it.


----------

