# Testosterone & Tren



## presto1 (Apr 6, 2009)

Question for the experts out there; 

I am 42 years old and have been on testosterone therapy for a little over a year. Been lifting a long time and I am 6'3" and 270lbs and still very athletic and active (35+ baseball, minor league football). 

I just began taking Xtreme Tren XXL 3X a day and was wondering if anyone knows if the mixture will be beneficial or inconsequential.


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## Built (Apr 6, 2009)

No clue on the supp. How much are you on for your HRT?


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## ZECH (Apr 6, 2009)

Yeah the tren x should work good for you.
It is suppressive.


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## presto1 (Apr 7, 2009)

Built said:


> No clue on the supp. How much are you on for your HRT?



50mg per day. I also use 100mg of DHEA per day.

Also, dg806, can you expound on the fact that it is suppressive and how that works with the Test? I appreciate your comments and response.


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## ZECH (Apr 7, 2009)

Most guys say the Trn X shuts them down hard usually in the first week and libido is low. The test and DHEA may help with that. I think you are going to need a post cycle plan.


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## presto1 (Apr 7, 2009)

Right you are! I was a bit disappointed the first week for sure and again you are right in saying the DHEA and Test helped. 

Since you clearly know your business, any suggestions for how long I should stay on the Tren or for the post cycle?

Also, will my test levels give my dick doc a heart attack? He freaks when they go above 300 so I'm assuming they will be high for a couple of months?

Thanks again for the advice and feedback!


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## Built (Apr 7, 2009)

Presto, what form is your test - injections, tablets or transdermal?


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## presto1 (Apr 7, 2009)

Built:

It's transdermal Testim.

I sense the wheels turning...


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## ZECH (Apr 7, 2009)

No your natural test levels will be very low(shutdown), thus the need for pct and getting your natural test up as quickly as possible to maintain gains. 4-6 wks of tren x are common followed by at least a 4 week pct.


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## presto1 (Apr 7, 2009)

So, if I understand correctly, even with the never ending testosterone therapy, the Tren will still shut down test levels after the cycle? 

Thanks again!


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## Built (Apr 7, 2009)

I don't understand how this could work. You're not relying on your boys to kick in - the transdermal takes care of that.


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## presto1 (Apr 7, 2009)

Built said:


> I don't understand how this could work. You're not relying on your boys to kick in - the transdermal takes care of that.



That was my concern because the boys shut off a while back, hence the test therapy. 

By the way built, been perusing some of your posts on other threads and looks like you are really tuned in!


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## Built (Apr 7, 2009)

Why thank you!

Presto, what is your blood level for testosterone - do you have any bloodwork handy?


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## presto1 (Apr 7, 2009)

Unfortunately no but I'm do back in a couple of months. Would be easy enough to get with a phone call. 

What are you thinking?


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## Built (Apr 7, 2009)

I'm just always curious to see the numbers.


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## ZECH (Apr 7, 2009)

presto1 said:


> So, if I understand correctly, even with the never ending testosterone therapy, the Tren will still shut down test levels after the cycle?
> 
> Thanks again!



I really doubt your levels were ever 0. They may have been low, thus the hrt. You were under normal ranges. But whatever your natural test was, it can be surpressed by exogenous use. I still think it would be wise to do a pct. There are other things to worry about also. Your HDL and LDL will take a giant hit and will need time to recover.


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## Built (Apr 7, 2009)

Whatever his natural test was, WILL be suppressed by now, won't it? I mean, I'm on test HRT myself, but I have no boys to shut down. Presto's will have by now, won't they?

No disrespect intended dg, I want to understand this stuff, too. Agree completely on the blood lipids.


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## presto1 (Apr 8, 2009)

dg806:

Thanks for the advice and you're correct, the levels were "low normal" which is what prompted the hrt.

Your point about HDL & LDL is well stated and is always a concern in situations like this. Will definetly do the pct and would you mind making a suggestion on that? Anything you've used in the past?


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## ZECH (Apr 8, 2009)

Built said:


> Whatever his natural test was, WILL be suppressed by now, won't it? I mean, I'm on test HRT myself, but I have no boys to shut down. Presto's will have by now, won't they?
> 
> No disrespect intended dg, I want to understand this stuff, too. Agree completely on the blood lipids.



Hard to tell. If he was taking a large amount it would be. But since he is just taking a small HRT dose, he may still have some natural test production? The only way to tell is have blood work done. I've seen guys do large doses and test levels be very low but never 0. I guess over a period of years it may. The HRT is suppose to get you in normal ranges. I have not seen blood work from people on HRT so I honestly don't know. There are several guys on here that are on HRT, maybe they would know.


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## Built (Apr 8, 2009)

dg806 said:


> Hard to tell. If he was taking a large amount it would be. But since he is just taking a small HRT dose, he may still have some natural test production? The only way to tell is have blood work done. I've seen guys do large doses and test levels be very low but never 0. I guess over a period of years it may. The HRT is suppose to get you in normal ranges. I have not seen blood work from people on HRT so I honestly don't know. There are several guys on here that are on HRT, maybe they would know.




On HRT, you have to replace the endogenous test and then top it up. It's a gradual process until you get the dosing right, because as you increase the dose, the boys downregulate. Eventually they're functionally "off", at which point dose-titration is a lot simpler. 

In light of this, how would a man on a cycle have low test? Or do you mean when he came off his cycle he still had some endogenous test?

In any event, how would a blood test distinguish between endogenous test and supplemental test?


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## ZECH (Apr 9, 2009)

Built said:


> In light of this, how would a man on a cycle have low test? Or do you mean when he came off his cycle he still had some endogenous test?
> 
> In any event, how would a blood test distinguish between endogenous test and supplemental test?



Yes it's possible he does still have some endo test.
I'm not sure if test do distinguish the two? But as soon as you come off cycle, the exogenous levels will diminish quickly and that is what your PCT is for. You will want to get endo levels up very quickly. If he is on HRT permanently, that should not be needed. Make sense? Now, if his body produces no endo test and the hrt only gets him in the low range of normal, which is most often the case, his test levels will still only be 200 or slightly better and he would still feel like crap. If I was on HRT permanently, I think I would have to dose extra just to have a good quality of life. Most doctors are very scared right now to prescribe test because of steroid laws and prescribe very little.


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## Built (Apr 9, 2009)

dg806 said:


> Yes it's possible he does still have some endo test.
> I'm not sure if test do distinguish the two? But as soon as you come off cycle, the exogenous levels will diminish quickly and that is what your PCT is for. You will want to get endo levels up very quickly. If he is on HRT permanently, that should not be needed. Make sense? Now, if his body produces no endo test and the hrt only gets him in the low range of normal, which is most often the case, his test levels will still only be 200 or slightly better and he would still feel like crap. If I was on HRT permanently, I think I would have to dose extra just to have a good quality of life. Most doctors are very scared right now to prescribe test because of steroid laws and prescribe very little.



That wasn't what I was asking. I was assuming there would still be SOME endogenous test. But not much. 

The OP will not be coming off his HRT. 

Now, the under-dosing is a WHOLE 'NOTHER BALLGAME. 

My point was that I don't see how PCT would make any difference at all to him for increasing his test levels if he's on HRT anyway, and I see that you agree.


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## ZECH (Apr 9, 2009)

ok...sorry. Well there are other things to worry about. The oral tren  is terrible on blood lipids as I just saw some blood work from a guy on another board. It will tank your HDL, maybe to single digits if taken long enough and Raise your LDL to bad levels. You are right, no need for pct, but some things you take in pct can get blood lipids back in line and he definately needs to take other stuff like niacin, red yeast rice, fish oil ect....
also cortisol is going to be very high after tren and test for that matter(I wonder what his normal cortisol is?)Something like lean xtreme is good to lower those levels. Some is good but you don't want too much.


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## Built (Apr 9, 2009)

Agree completely. Too bad there aren't more of the non-methylated transdermals around.


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## presto1 (Apr 12, 2009)

Geez! Now my cortisol levels will go up as well? Please tell me the benefits outweigh the drawbacks in such a situation. So, fat will be a concern after this cycle as I assume that was what you were referring to?

Unfortunately, so much of this is trial and error and not perfect science. I appreciate the feedback from both of you!


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