# Dianabol as a Supplement



## Tha Don (Mar 6, 2005)

The Use of Dianabol as a Supplement
Article by Bransholme (MuscleTalk Member) 


This article was originally intended to be a history of the anabolic steroid dianabol and it's usage in bodybuilding, but there is little real evidence of how it was used in previous decades. However, in the course of research, I have come to the conclusion that current use of dianabol as a supplement is not as efficient as it could be. Most of the modern thoughts on dianabol use reflect around myths and irrelevant scientific studies; this article attempts to explain new ways of thinking on dianabol usage using scientific evidence and people's experiences. 

Dianabol (or dbol as it's commonly called) is one of the most commonly used oral steroids. Its chemical name is methanedienone or methandrostenolone and there are many different pharmaceutical and generic varieties including Anabol and Naposim. In this article we look at lower dose usage of dianabol as a supplement, as opposed to using pro-hormones or pro-steroids. 

Liver Toxicity of Dianabol
The 17 alpha-alkylated properties of methanedienone do make it liver toxic, but this, I believe, is overstated as most of the evidence of its toxicity comes from studies on individuals and not from studies on large groups of dianabol-using bodybuilders. One study on rats (1) showed that regardless of dose or time of administration, dianabol produces changes in enzymatic activity, which leads to hypertrophy of hepatocytes; which basically shows that dianabol is toxic to the liver. But in another study (2) Nerobol (Russian Dianabol) was found to favour a rapid normalisation of functional and metabolic disorders of the liver, which contradicts the earlier evidence. This shows that the whole idea of dianabol being dangerous is in no way as bad as some would make out. 

Benefits of Dianabol Use
Dianabol has been shown to increase anaerobic glycolysis (3), which increases lactic acid build up in the body. This is beneficial because lactic acid is used by the muscles to form glycogen, which in turn provides energy in anaerobic metabolism. Lactic acid is also a key chemical in the disposal of dietary carbohydrates, which means you are less likely to get fat while using dianabol. 

A study on osteoporosis (4) showed that at a dosage of just 2.5mg per day for 9 months dianabol was more effective than calcium supplementation in reducing osteoporotic activity, it was also shown to increase muscle mass more effectively. Another study on osteoporosis (5) which lasted 24 months, showed just how dianabol works on osteoporosis; dianabol increased total body calcium, and also total body potassium. This may not mean much to you as a bodybuilder, but the actions of calcium are very important to bodybuilders, as it transports large numbers of amino acids and also creatine and these two things are vital in muscle growth. Potassium is also very important, as it assists in muscle contractions, transmitting nerve signals, and insulin release; so it is also a very anabolic substance. 

One very interesting study (6), although not significant in bodybuilding terms, showed that dianabol increases the sensitivity of laryngeal tumour cells to radiotherapy, and concluded 'recommending this hormone to be used during radiotherapy of patients with the laryngeal cancer'. 

How to Cycle Dianabol
To create a cycle for dianabol that is based around using it more as a supplement than a steroid, we first need to look at the current trend for cycling dianabol and analyse what is wrong with it. An average cycle of Dianabol is usually structured as 25-40mg split throughout each day for 4-6 weeks, either alone or stacked with other steroids. 

Firstly a dose of 25mg or more commonly causes water retention. It is well known that dianabol does aromatise quite easily, and most of the water retention is usually attributed to a build up of excess estrogen. However, it is my belief that initially water retention is caused by the body holding on to water due to the effects of dianabol on the body's mineral balance, in particular the potassium/sodium balance. This coupled with the fact that dianabol cause estrogenic side effects, leads to a lot of water build-up, and as there is little we can do about the change in the bodies mineral balance, the only other thing we can do is try to reduce aromatisation, usually with Nolvadex (tamoxifen) or other anti-estrogens. This is not the only method though, by reducing the dose, less of the drug will aromatise, which leads to less estrogen and more importantly less water retention. Reducing the drug during a cycle would lead to estrogen levels dropping slowly, so we should start the cycle with a lower dose of 10-20mg each day. 

Splitting the dosage when you are using a low dose is virtually pointless, as you will get a much smaller peak of the drug. So in this case it is best to take it in a single dose in the morning (preferably with grapefruit juice). Although this will not prevent suppression of natural testosterone, it may lessen it to a certain degree, as your body will still have lengthy periods later in the day when there is little testosterone circulating, and so it may still produce some. 

Now if we look at cycle duration, 4-6 weeks seems too short to have any real effect at a low dose, but how can we use dianabol for longer without placing more risk on our liver? The solution is actually quite simple; by taking weekends off from the drug we will give our livers a break from processing the drug. Due to the short half-life any active substances will be out of our system within 24 hours of your last dose, now this may seem like it will cost you gains, but in actual fact it will cost you little or no losses in the long run as even though there is no active drug in the body the effects are still present i.e. extra intramuscular water, and a more anabolic mineral balance. These effects usually taper off over several days. This method will not however, help your natural testosterone to return from its inhibited state, as this process can take considerably longer. If we take weekends off and use a lower dose, we should in theory be able to use dianabol for 10 weeks with no problems. A simple bit of mathematics can show this point best: 


6 weeks @25mg each day = 1050mg of Dianabol in total
10 weeks with weekends off @15mg each day = 750mg of Dianabol in total
So as you can see, by using this system your liver will actually process less dianabol than in a conventional cycle, add this to the fact that you can make gains for 10 weeks instead of 6, and with fewer side effects, and you get a very solid cycle. 

Summary
This Cycle Theory can be applied in many different situations, for instance a beginner could use the dianabol on it's own for 10 weeks and gain very well. A more experienced steroid user could use this alongside an injectable cycle for very good gains too, getting the benefit of the initial quick gains of the Dianabol, with the slower but stronger gains of an injectable. 

This cycle may seem to go against many of the current trends of dianabol use, but I believe that by using dianabol as a supplement to good training and nutrition you can make very good gains. 

References



Effects of methandrostenolone on liver morphology and enzymatic activity. Nesterin MF, Budik VM, Narodetskaia RV, Solov'eva GI, Stoianova VG. 
An experimental study of the hepatoprotective properties of phytoecdysteroids and Nerobol in carbon tetrachloride induce liver lesions. Syrov VN, Khushbaktova ZA, Nabiev AN. 
Effects of methanedienone (methandrostenolone) on energy processes and carbohydrate metabolism in rat liver cells. Serakovskii S, Mats'koviak Iu. 
Calcium, vitamin D and anabolic steroid treatment of aged bones: double-blind placebo-controlled long-term clinical trial. Inkovaara J, Gothoni G, Halttula R, Heikinheimo R, Tokola O. 
Changes in body composition following therapy of osteoporosis with methandrostenolone. Mann V, Benko AB, Kocsar LT. 
Radiomodifying effect of methandrostenolone on laryngeal cancer cells. Bordiushkov IuN, Kucherova TI, Kisliakova ND, Vagner VP, Zubkova TV.


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## repeej (Mar 8, 2005)

I'm suprised nobody has jumped all over this research article...


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## Tha Don (Mar 10, 2005)

repeej said:
			
		

> I'm suprised nobody has jumped all over this research article...



same here


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## Celtic Bhoy (Mar 15, 2005)

How are ya young d.I have a question about dianabol, and Iv searched google and this forum, but I need to ask.Basically, I have 2 mates who did a 6 week cycle on it and the results were amazing.They both gained about 25lbs(one went from 222lbs-248lbs and 195lbs-219lbs), they made huge gains on their bench press, squats, etc, and theyve maintained them since they came off.They had a 3 week cycle of stuff for when they came off it and were taking other supplements to repress side effects while they were cycling the d-bol.Now, Id never go near it because whenever I think of steroids I immediately think hair loss and testicle shrinkage and men developing breasts, and theres a load of other things like mood swings and liver stuff etc. However, neither of my mates lost hair and both say their balls are same as normal because they were takin a low dosage and other things to repress the causes of those side effects. 
Anyway, I was curious about the odds involved(if anyone knows) with using dianabol for a 6 week cycle if ya had all the necessary extras to repress the side effects of it as my mates claim to have had, for example is it 15% or something and if ya notice the side effects starting will they stop when ya cease using it and how long after ya stop cycling it would ya be susceptable to experiencing the side effects.

Thanks.


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## Robboe (Mar 15, 2005)

If they really gained 25lbs over 6 weeks, i don't think dianabol was all they were using.


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## Robboe (Mar 15, 2005)

Or they were skinny bastards before they began.


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## Robboe (Mar 15, 2005)

Which obviously wasn't the case now i've went back and re-read their weights.


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## Celtic Bhoy (Mar 15, 2005)

No seriously it was just dianabol,as far as i know anyway but I cant see any reason why they wouldnt have told me if they were on anything else.Never heard of it prior to them using it, and like I said they saw no side effects, except theyve both got huger arms,legs, broader shoulders, pretty much bigger everything.Anyway does anyone know what the odds of incurring those side effects and other things I asked at the end of my post would be


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## Celtic Bhoy (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh yeah, do ya think Newcastle will win the FA Cup this year,TCD  ;-)


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## Tha Don (Mar 15, 2005)

yes 25lbs is a BIG gain for a dbol only cycle, 12-15lbs would be more reasonable from 6 weeks of dbol, maybe keeping 8-11lbs if you run things right

celtic - if you interested in steroids best thing to do is some reading for yourself... http://www.steroid.com/DIANABOL.phtml is a great place to start

i'm not sure what they ran while they were on the dbol?? i assume afterwards they would have ran tamoxifen

its impossible to tell what side effects will be experienced from a cycle as it depends on many individual factors, no body can predict how someone will react to a certain product until they try it, but FYI side effects are heavily played up, i know quite a few guys on juice, a few of em have been totally abusing steroids for years and they have no hair loss, no gyno or any visible sides to date apart from huge shoulders and big egos, lol, however i wouldn't want to know what their liver readings look like

if you want any more specific advice you can drop me a pm/email


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## repeej (Mar 15, 2005)

Celtic Bhoy said:
			
		

> They had a 3 week cycle of stuff for when they came off it and were taking other supplements to repress side effects while they were cycling the d-bol.
> Thanks.


Any chance you can find out what else specifically they took during and after?


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## Celtic Bhoy (Mar 15, 2005)

repeej said:
			
		

> Any chance you can find out what else specifically they took during and after?


Yeah I could ask tomorrow.It basically prevented all the side effects and hormones.I think they mentioned estrogen and testosterone and stuff.


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## Sherpa (Mar 16, 2005)

*dbol sides*

Every time I run dbol in any cycle I get signs of gyno after 1 to 2 weeks. Then I take 40mg of nolva a day until it goes away "usualy a day or two", then 20mg a day until I stop taking the dbol. I really didnt have much for side effects except water retention, and itchy nips for a couple of days. "I ran test with the dbol", but I start the dbol 1 week before the test.  

Also, with taking a low dosage of dbol in the morning by night time when they sleep and your body releases / makes the most natural test. The dbol would be out of there system. So it shouldnt effect their natural test production, so no srinkage etc.


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## gococksDJS (Mar 16, 2005)

Sherpa said:
			
		

> Also, with taking a low dosage of dbol in the morning by night time when they sleep and your body releases / makes the most natural test. The dbol would be out of there system. So it shouldnt effect their natural test production, so no srinkage etc.


 Any androgen will have some effect on your HPTA. Just because you don't notice the effects, doesn't mean they aren't there. If your statement is referring to dbol when stacked with a long ester, like test, then you are very wrong.


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## Pirate! (Mar 16, 2005)

The theory is that if you take a small daily dose first thing in the morning and no other steroids, then the d-bol will be out of your system when your daily surge of test comes again first thing in the morning the next day. This is an interesting read on the theory--even though Fonz is not a good source of info:

http://www.conversionboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1767


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## LAM (Mar 16, 2005)

Sherpa said:
			
		

> Every time I run dbol in any cycle I get signs of gyno after 1 to 2 weeks. Then I take 40mg of nolva a day until it goes away "usualy a day or two", then 20mg a day until I stop taking the dbol. I really didnt have much for side effects except water retention, and itchy nips for a couple of days. "I ran test with the dbol", but I start the dbol 1 week before the test.
> 
> Also, with taking a low dosage of dbol in the morning by night time when they sleep and your body releases / makes the most natural test. The dbol would be out of there system. So it shouldnt effect their natural test production, so no srinkage etc.



why would you continue to use something that gives you gyno ?   

also you need to do some more research on the pharmacodynamics of testosterone supplementation.  when you take dbol baseline T levels increase which signals the formation of inhibin which then signal the hypothalamus to stop the production of GnRH.  last time I checked it's IMPOSSIBLE for the human body to manufacture testosterone if the hypothalamus doesn't signal the pituitary gland to secrete leutenizing hormone (LH).


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## Pirate! (Mar 16, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> it's IMPOSSIBLE for the human body to manufacture testosterone if the hypothalamus doesn't signal the pituitary gland to secrete leutenizing hormone (LH).


 Your body will produce test from HCG stimulation, though.


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## LAM (Mar 16, 2005)

PirateFromHell said:
			
		

> Your body will produce test from HCG stimulation, though.



right, because HCG mimics LH secretion


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## ZECH (Mar 16, 2005)

Sherpa said:
			
		

> Also, with taking a low dosage of dbol in the morning by night time when they sleep and your body releases / makes the most natural test. The dbol would be out of there system. So it shouldnt effect their natural test production, so no srinkage etc.


I think you better do some studying!

Edit:I posted this before I read Lam's statement.


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## Sherpa (Mar 16, 2005)

*previous statement*

lam, I was only referring to the 6 week dbol cycle that celtic bhoy was speaking of with no sides. I was just offering how my experiance with dbol has been. It always makes my nips itch after a few weeks (to the sides), and I dont run it alone. The most I've taken dbol without some test is about 7 days. So thats about as far as my dbol alone / sides experiance goes. I dont get many sides from test alone or test / deca. Dbol always has me itching though. Novla stops that, and I still like to add some dbol in with cycle.      

I figure that some people can run dbol at low doses without any sides. If I take around 20mg of nolva ed when I run dbol I dont experiance any "I have seen some later in my cycle after stopping the dbol". I usualy take anywhere between 35 and 50mg /day, but I bet taking 10 to 15mg/ed that I wouldnt need the nolva, or see any noticable sides in 6 weeks.

Sherpa


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## Celtic Bhoy (Mar 17, 2005)

Is it typical to develop symptoms of gyno like that or rare and why dont ya just start takin the nolvadex at the same time as the dbol, rather than wait until signs of gyno starts to appear?Is it not as effective unless ya wait?My mates were takin their stuff 3 times a day, morning, about an hour before workout and a little while after workout, and I asked and they said they were using Nolvadex.I know the name of the stuff and how many tablets they took each dosage, but I think from that thread by Mudge Im not supposed to name it.Thanks for the info Sherpa and everyone else.


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## Celtic Bhoy (Mar 17, 2005)

Alrite, sorry if this is going to sound stupid, but Im just askin coz i dont know, not to piss anyone off.

From what iv gathered, dbol's benefits are that it makes ya stronger so ya can do more reps with more weight, causes/promotes growth in muscle mass, causes a bit of water retention so youll lose weight after ya stop usin it, but keep the majority of it and it results in increased strenght and more l.b.m. than when ya started it.Correct?

Soooooooo, would it be accurate to say that its basically like creatine monohydrate, except far,far,far stronger?


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## Mudge (Mar 17, 2005)

Sherpa said:
			
		

> Also, with taking a low dosage of dbol in the morning by night time when they sleep and your body releases / makes the most natural test. The dbol would be out of there system. So it shouldnt effect their natural test production, so no srinkage etc.



Then test suspension with NO half life would have no effect on the HPTA, and it quite certainly does.

Actually GH is highest during sleep, testosterone spikes in the AM. This is why we have morning wood, not 10PM wood.

I had no testicular shrinkage noticeable on my first cycle, once I hit deca and tren though both of those compounds hit me hard and fast.


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## Mudge (Mar 17, 2005)

Celtic Bhoy said:
			
		

> Soooooooo, would it be accurate to say that its basically like creatine monohydrate, except far,far,far stronger?



It is a drug, it is going to be far more complex than calling it creatine x 3.4 or anything like that. Its not creatine so lets not draw comparisons. Some things that make you stronger are not great for size.

Dbol like other anabolics help create a protein sparing environment.


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## Mudge (Mar 17, 2005)

Celtic Bhoy said:
			
		

> My mates were takin their stuff 3 times a day, morning, about an hour before workout and a little while after workout, and I asked and they said they were using Nolvadex.I know the name of the stuff and how many tablets they took each dosage, but I think from that thread by Mudge Im not supposed to name it.Thanks for the info Sherpa and everyone else.



Unless they were taking heroin you can talk about the drug name all you want. I would wait on the nolvadex, there is no reason to take it through a cycle IMO. Is gyno common? Well its somewhat common in teenage boys who dont take drugs, it depends on several factors.

You dont go from normal to full on breasts overnight, there is plenty of warning as to when gyno is coming.


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## Pirate! (Mar 17, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> This is why we have morning wood, not 10PM wood.


I prefer both.


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## Sherpa (Mar 17, 2005)

*gyno*

clet, I wait to take novla until I start seeing any signs of it. I like the water dbol makes me retain. When I start taking nolva, I lose some of the water.

Sherpa


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## LAM (Mar 17, 2005)

Sherpa said:
			
		

> I usualy take anywhere between 35 and 50mg /day, but I bet taking 10 to 15mg/ed that I wouldnt need the nolva, or see any noticable sides in 6 weeks.
> 
> Sherpa



that is a hefty dose of dbol.  now it's easy to see why you usually get signs of gyno every time you run it.  you do realize that running a smaller dose of 20-25 mg/ED would get you the same effect with less sides ?  more isn't always better.


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## Mudge (Mar 17, 2005)

25mg dbol works great for me.


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## Sherpa (Mar 17, 2005)

*pump*

I love the pump I get from dbol. If I take less than 25mg I dont seem to get the same pump that I'm used to. Mabey its in my head, but When I first tried dbol, I went with 30mg a day. Now I run 35mg on off days, and 45 on days that I workout. I like the feeling it gives me. I think I should cut down on it a bit. I'll try 25mg /d next time and see how it works out. "it will be about 5 months after my current cycle ends before I do another one, I run 2 per year" I'll let you know how it goes when I start it.


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## Mudge (Mar 17, 2005)

25mg at least allows for 5 doses per day which is a reasonable spread for your waking hours.


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## 19-chief (Mar 17, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> Actually GH is highest during sleep, testosterone spikes in the AM. This is why we have morning wood, not 10PM wood.
> 
> 
> > speak for yourself, buddy.


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## Tha Don (Mar 17, 2005)

19-chief said:
			
		

> Mudge said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



lol yep, your on your own there mate!


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## Tha Don (Mar 17, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> that is a hefty dose of dbol.  now it's easy to see why you usually get signs of gyno every time you run it.  you do realize that running a smaller dose of 20-25 mg/ED would get you the same effect with less sides ?  more isn't always better.



i agree, you should cut the dose down if you keep having issues with gyno


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## Celtic Bhoy (Mar 18, 2005)

The stuff my mates were usin was called "British Dragon" if anyones familiar with it.3 tablets 3 times a day.I think all they were takin was nolvadex and were relying on the fact that they were takin such a low dosage that their hair wouldnt fall out, along with a 3 week cycle of stuff after the dbopl to prevent testicle shrinkage.If ya notice side effects settin in, will they stop as soon as ya stop takin the stuff and will the effects be reversed  (ie.would your testicles return to normal or your hair grow back) afterwords?And how long after ya cease usin will ya be susceptable to side effects from it, because doesnt it stay in your system for a couple of months afterwords?


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## Tha Don (Mar 18, 2005)

Celtic Bhoy said:
			
		

> The stuff my mates were usin was called "British Dragon" if anyones familiar with it.3 tablets 3 times a day.I think all they were takin was nolvadex and were relying on the fact that they were takin such a low dosage that their hair wouldnt fall out, along with a 3 week cycle of stuff after the dbopl to prevent testicle shrinkage.If ya notice side effects settin in, will they stop as soon as ya stop takin the stuff and will the effects be reversed  (ie.would your testicles return to normal or your hair grow back) afterwords?And how long after ya cease usin will ya be susceptable to side effects from it, because doesnt it stay in your system for a couple of months afterwords?



45mg/ed is still a very heavy dose for dbol

dbol will be out of your system fast due to its very short half-life, of course when you come off your hormones are all over the place, excess estrogen is being produced as your body senses that test is too high, this is why you need to run nolvadex to prevent estrogen related sides from occuring when you come off while your hormones return to normal


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## Mudge (Mar 18, 2005)

If you have problems with MPB then you are going to have to research how people avoid it. I can take all the dbol I want and not lose hair.


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## Wusabi (Jan 6, 2011)

*New*

Hey guys, just joined. I'll give you the low down. I buy gear from a guy at my gym. He's reliable. But I have to wait long for him to get it from another guy and so on and so forth. I am on Dbol right now. Started with 20 mgs and I'm up to 60 mgs. I used it as a stand alone (dumb) but it was my first time. I hate the bloated look but love the strength. I'm looking into injectables. If anyone has any reccomendations or stacks I'm only looking to spend like 500$ to get ripped and stay strong.
Thanks-
an Iron Brother


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## BigBird (Jan 7, 2011)

Wusabi said:


> Hey guys, just joined. I'll give you the low down. I buy gear from a guy at my gym. He's reliable. But I have to wait long for him to get it from another guy and so on and so forth. I am on Dbol right now. Started with 20 mgs and I'm up to 60 mgs. I used it as a stand alone (dumb) but it was my first time. I hate the bloated look but love the strength. I'm looking into injectables. If anyone has any reccomendations or stacks I'm only looking to spend like 500$ to get ripped and stay strong.
> Thanks-
> an Iron Brother


 
The standard injectable would be Test Enanthate or Cypionate 500mg every week.  You can take one cc (200-250mg/ml) twice weekly for a good 10 or twelve weeks.  Dbol is typically used for weeks 1-4 of a stack with test in order "jumpstart" gains and sprint out of the gate.  To lean out, add Proviron to your stack.  You could also add Winstrol tabs for the last weeks 6-10 only after you have stopped taking the d-bol.


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## Wusabi (Jan 8, 2011)

Great! Thanks man. I've gotten a similar response on other forums. Defnitely go with Proviron? Or how about tren. Guys I know turned into vein monsters.
Thanks again.


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## GMO (Jan 8, 2011)

Wusabi said:


> Great! Thanks man. I've gotten a similar response on other forums. Defnitely go with Proviron? Or how about tren. Guys I know turned into vein monsters.
> Thanks again.



This guy has started one thread and hijacked three others with the same question.


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