# Clean bulking ideas to help people reach goals



## hardasnails1973 (Dec 7, 2003)

I alternate my meals so metabolism and digestion can be given a break. meaning non workout days 5-6 meals depending on when I get up. workout days every 3 hours on the dot til post workout time then shake then wait an hour and a half and eat a normal meal then eat right before bed.  Easy way i found to break down meals are by caloiric need

3600-3800 BMR +activity level  for 200 lbs lean male
training days
breakfast 15% caloric value 40/40/20
meal 2-4,50/20/30 - p/c/f - 10%
preworkout 45/45/10 - 10%
preworkout bed time 10% - 60/10/30
post workout 20% 30/65/5 carbs depend on body worked 
post workout 2 15% late night workout (50/20/30) morniing workout (40/40/20)

3100--3200 (maintence
Off days cardio days (30-40 mins)
6 meals about 500 caloires 
40/40/20 meals 1,3 -glyogen replenishment 
50/20/30 meals 2,4
50/10/35 meals 5,6  fiberous veggies only 

sat will be refeed days not cheat days  
20 times body weight carbs
30/60/10 - pcf every 2 hours  lowest fat i can handle
well may be one cheat meal before 5 pm and after that ma tamper to greens 

Hope this helps people to acheive their goals 

untill i get my eating plan this is what I'm following


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## sara (Dec 7, 2003)

What kind carbs,fat and protein you eat?


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## hardasnails1973 (Dec 7, 2003)

carbs- groats, brown rice, sweet potatoes, yams, oatmeal, oatbran, greens, peppers, ect, occasional fruit here and there 

protein- lean animal sources, egg whites the usual , shakes only (before and after workout)  ONLY
fats  olive oil, FLax, Hemp, Nuts, Newmans dressing,UDOS, Fish oils,
 no protein shakes on off trainning days - give digestion track a rest 

I'm a solid believer in whole food plus my job allows me to eat when i need to

When it comes to eating i probably one of most strict people here
No milk products becuase I'm allergic and lactose intolerant 
I cover all basis in my eating plan


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## Premo55 (Dec 7, 2003)

This is nearly exactly the diet plan I've formulated for myself, maybe not so strict with the percentages and rations, but all my carb intake comes from BF, PWO 1 and PWO 2. Pre-workout is carb/fat, MCTs and EFAs make sure that I'm clear-headed and energetic during the work-out. No shakes on off-days as well, and I subtract one meal on non-workout days, which I generally spend just resting, no cardio, maybe some General Physical Preparedness training. I haven't been doing carb refeeds, and only eating my BW in carbs on WO days, and about 100g on non-WO days, though...should I be doing refeeds, hard? Thanks, this plan is very sound and will ensure minimum fat gain...I know this because I've been on a similar plan for three months.

Peace.


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## P-funk (Dec 7, 2003)

hardasnails, what is your job, if you don't mind me asking?


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## Premo55 (Dec 7, 2003)

Another thing is I don't even have shakes PWO, I make my own mixture of cottage cheese, whey isolate powder and pasteurised egg white albumen, then mix it in 3/4 cups oat bran or large flake oats, then eat my PWO meal....works for me, and it's very tasty.

Peace.


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## hardasnails1973 (Dec 7, 2003)

I train a few people here and there But manly work in cleint service at Vanguard group that sucks ASS.  THis is my passion not being screamed at all day by pissed off shareholders.

Ps if you want a solid food post workout meal i think 2 jars of sweet potatoes in baby jars would work awesome.  I'm going to look up GI index I think its the same as dextrose and would give a nice spike.  Might want to mix that with some oats =low gylcemix and Sweet potatoes in bady food for HIgher index (just a thought)


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## sara (Dec 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by hardasnails1973 *_
> carbs- groats, brown rice, sweet potatoes, yams, oatmeal, oatbran, greens, peppers, ect, occasional fruit here and there



May I ask you way you don't eat whole wheat bread? you are bulking


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## hardasnails1973 (Dec 7, 2003)

Nope no breads only 24 grains on refeed days !! no other time.  I stay very strict all year round ...


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## Premo55 (Dec 7, 2003)

Hard, do you think I need a refeed? By amny standards the diet I follow would still technically be considered a low-carb one. I eat approx. 150g carbs on work-out days (BF, PWO1, PWO2...I weigh 170), and tone it down to around 80 on non workout days (BF and Meal 3). I'm on a 4 or 5 day split, depending on how I feel throughout the week, with two days of light GPP training on off-days. It's been this way for around four months.

Peace.


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## hardasnails1973 (Dec 7, 2003)

A good shock always does the body good.  Suggestion may be do some cardio before refeed Like HIT for 20 minutes and then eat  well above maintance intake with higher carbs , lower protein, lower fat do this till your last meal then switch back to protein veggies for last meal.  If you suck down 8 meals that day and ffel bloated.  Next time cut your carbs off at 5-6 pm and then protein /vegges lower fat rest of the time.  You just have to fins out what your body can handle through expereimntation.


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## Premo55 (Dec 7, 2003)

I'll try that this weekend. I feel like my body has been getting too accustomed to the diet. Thanks man

Peace.


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## sentricyphen (Dec 8, 2003)

hey bro, ive been working on my macro charts... i like your ideas, especially that meals vary in size. Can you think of any way to have it setup so that the entire day bears only one macro breakdown, while concurrently maintaining these useful caloric %'s ?--ive been trying to come up with something like this for a while, and in the end it's always pretty complicated.


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## hardasnails1973 (Dec 8, 2003)

first of all depends on goal (total caloric value) /6 meals @
40/40/20  seems to be the most logcal way  equal protein/ carbs and let fat fall into place


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## sentricyphen (Dec 8, 2003)

well i carb cycle, not by the book, but on w/o days i 30 40 30 (im bulking)

on off days and cardio days i do 50 30 20.

you have aim? you seem like the person to talk to about this. 

i can scan in some of old macros i was working on and send them to you. i was close to comming up with somthing.


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## hardasnails1973 (Dec 8, 2003)

hardasnails1973  - how orginal


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## sentricyphen (Dec 8, 2003)

sweet thanks dude


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## sara (Dec 8, 2003)

I try to have the bread on days that I workout... bread seems to be ok with my diet


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## hardasnails1973 (Dec 9, 2003)

Whole grain is fine but moderate it !!  Eating is all about moderation and not stressing about things and eventually it will all fall into place. People stresing over 5% here there or a gram here or there. they are bound for failure !! let you dicate the diet not the diet control you !!


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## Power Rabbit (Dec 9, 2003)

whats preworkout bedtime mean?


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## sara (Dec 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by hardasnails1973 *_
> Whole grain is fine but moderate it !!  Eating is all about moderation and not stressing about things and eventually it will all fall into place. People stresing over 5% here there or a gram here or there. they are bound for failure !! let you dicate the diet not the diet control you !!


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## Elipika (Dec 10, 2003)

Hard,
Could you post a typical diet for me? I am 5'10, 215lbs. I want to drop my belly and be more around 200lbs. I wanted a clean diet, like meal by meal. 
I'm a Novice who is not sure what to eat.
Thanks


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## hardasnails1973 (Dec 10, 2003)

people just think it is that easy. there are number of crucial variable that go into designing a good diet.   
1. weight, height. age, gender
2. activity level out side of workout
3. body shape - ecto meso endo
4. goals 
5. carb sensitivity
6. work out schedule
7 Do you want me to continue

these are factors and a slew of other are needed to be into conciederation also  most important your medical history.  People just start that you can rattle of a diet with out knowing information and IMO it can not be done thoroghly with at proper information.  This information i'm telling you becuase i do create diet for people but from a business stand point if your person creating the diet aren;t asking these questions hes just taking your money.   Thats why i never perscribe any thing but only make suggestions to people.  I people I work with are under tight supervsions and anything that they feel is wrong they will tell me and we will make modifications.


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## hardasnails1973 (Dec 10, 2003)

power rabbit that was meant

preworkout is 45/45/10 p/c/f ratio at 10-15% of caloirc value
bed time - 60/10/30 p/c/f ratio  - 10% caloirc value my bad


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## Power Rabbit (Dec 10, 2003)

oh heh... thx  I thought u might have been doin some prebed work...i myself do my abs bf i go to sleep


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## Elipika (Dec 11, 2003)

Sorry Hard, did not mean to strike a nerve with you. I am basically sick of eating the same old' thing. I will try and paint a picture for you:
I just got married, so my diet has been horrible for the last month. Also I did not get in the gym like I wanted to the month before the wedding. I saw my honeymoon pictures and was disgusted by them, I knew I put on some weight, but not so much. 
I have dieted in the past, low carb diets, low fat diets, and usually always taking in a lot of protein. the lowest I have ever got my body fat % is 12. I am at 17% right know. Here is my info:
wt. 215
ht. 5' 10
age 30
Male
activity, moderate, once a week, *but I have been running for the last week, usually 4 times a week since seeing my disgusting honeymoon pics.
Not sure on this one = body shape - ecto meso endo.- I have a stocky muscular build. I have a medium bone size frame. 
Goals- to get my body fat below 10 %, lose my stomach and love handles.
My body handles carbs well, no hungry urges. I have found that once I get up to 200 g of protein a day that my body starts to act up (Gas).
work out schedule: 4 to 5 times a week
1. legs
2. bi's and chest
3. shoulders
4. back and tri's
5. legs (if a 5th work out that week) abs every day.
Medical history, bad left knee, 3 surgeries (football)
MY DIET:
I mainly eat chicken breast, tuna, boiled egg whites for protein, plus  1 protein shake a day.
carbs I usually keep low. Broccoli, cucumbers, brown rice, celery, steam veges ( corn, peas, coli flower)
Fats- minimal, almonds.
I drink tons of water, gallon a day or more.
I am getting burned out on eating the same old thing every day or every other day. Do you have any alternatives for food? Or am I totally doing something wrong. I have never been able to get below 12% body fat.

Any help you or any one can provide thanks.


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## Jodi (Dec 11, 2003)

You could always check out the sticky at the top of this forum titled Guide to Cutting & Bulking or there is a link in my sig.  There are several developed, tried and tested diet plans in there.  Find one that works for you and experiment.


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## hardasnails1973 (Dec 11, 2003)

ok here is what i suggest

cardio 5-6 days a week 30 minutes first thing in the morning (take 5 grams BCAAS 5 grams glutemine)

breakfast
10 egg whites 1 whole
1 cup oatmeal dry or 50 grams of a complex fiberous carbs KEEP SUGAR LOW
multivitamins

meal 2
NOT ALL WHEY A MIXTURE protein shake -30-40 grams 1 TBSP FLAX, keep carbs low under 15 grams

meal 3
lunch 
1 can tuna fish 
2 TBSP newmans dressing
green veggies
keep carbs low here as well

3-330
Pre workout meal 1.5 - 2 hours prior workout
2 scoops protein powder -40 grams
nice size yam - like 6-8 0z or other complex carb 50-60 grams 

5 pm workout


5 grams BCAAS
10 grams gluemine

630 after workout
2 scoops protein powder (1/2 Whey, 1/2 egg protein)  40 grams 
1 cup of oats dry or 1.5 cups cooked brown rice (not uncle bens) or 6-8 oz yam, or 6-8 oz white potatoe or 50 grams of all natural whole grain rice cakes

wait 2 - 2.5 hours 

before bed have 
5 oz chicken veggies as indicated on list and some kind of EFAS

this way carbs are strageically placed where they are need.  

non wokrou days 
breakfast leave alone same with every thing else

just make post workout meal a normal meal with say lean piece of protein /fiberous carbs/ moderate fat from EFAS or small hand full of nuts 

this gives you about 2200 caloires with a balance of about 40/40/20 protein carbs/fat  but carbs are where they are need to be for optimal fuelage and not to many which will be stored as fat 

Body will adjst - run this for 2 weeks and then we will reeveulate


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## hardasnails1973 (Dec 11, 2003)

This should really help you

Beef: Beef tenderloin, Filet Mignon, Sirloin, Flank Steak, Round Steak, Top Round, Roast Beef, Ground Round, Ground Sirloin. Ground Beef (93% Fat Free or leaner) 

Poultry: Chicken breast (no skin) Canned Chicken Breast (Swanson???s), Turkey Breast, Turkey Breast Cutlets, Ground Turkey Breast (95% Fat Free or Leaner), Canned Turkey Breast, Deli Turkey Breast. 

Fish: Just about all kinds, the best are: Tuna (canned in water or fresh), Cod, Flounder, Halibut, Haddock, Orange Roughy, Salmon (canned in water or fresh, but limit to twice weekly), Red Snapper, Perch, Pollock, Scallops, Shrimp, Whitefish and Swordfish. 

Complex Starchy Carbohydrates
Oatmeal, Cream of Rice, Puffed Rice, Rice Cakes, Cooked Rice (brown or white), Potatoes, Sweet Potatoes, Beans (white, pinto, kidney or black), Lima Beans, Corn, Peas. 

Fibrous Vegetables
Asparagus, Broccoli, Brussels Sprouts, Cabbage, Carrots, Cauliflower, Celery, Cucumbers, Green Beans, Lettuce, Mushrooms, Spinach, Tomato, Water Chestnuts, Zucchini.


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## Jodi (Dec 11, 2003)

Han, Rice cakes are extremely High GI! 

BTW in case your interested I have a shopping list in that sticky that also list some other good food choices.


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## hardasnails1973 (Dec 11, 2003)

Not if they are whole grain and not the white ones


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## Jodi (Dec 11, 2003)

Yes, but those are much harder to find and just looking at that list might make someone think regular rice cakes are ok 

Just wanted to point that out is all.


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## hardasnails1973 (Dec 11, 2003)

or better if you want a good post workout supplement Beverly mass maker (has low glycemic no sugar in it ) Goto www.dpsnutrition.net  its cheapest there  and take one serving Post workout only.


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## hardasnails1973 (Dec 11, 2003)

that glycemic chart is bull crap becuase if a food High on gi is combined with a fiber and fat the gi of that (say white potatoe) drops down to that of a moderate GI.   Honestly 1/2 cup of oats and 2-3 rice cakes would be ok for a post workout meal bc the oats will bring down the spike of the ricecakes


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## Elipika (Dec 11, 2003)

A million thanks to you both. I will hit the store tonight to stock up. I will check back in, in two weeks.


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## sara (Dec 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by hardasnails1973 *_
> Not if they are whole grain and not the white ones



Where do you  buy you'r whole grain ones?


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## hardasnails1973 (Dec 12, 2003)

any health food or natural store


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## sara (Dec 14, 2003)

any particular brand you have?


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## Elipika (Dec 30, 2003)

2 week check in:
My weight is down to 208 lbs. I have not got my fat checked since losing the weight, but I am sure I am not at my goal of being under 10%. I am starting to see some improvement, but I still would like to loose about 10 more pounds. Should I stay on the same diet or change it up?


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## hardasnails1973 (Jan 2, 2004)

if it not broke don fix it.   you should loose about 1-2 lbs a week any thing more then that is you are lossing muscle and that is not good, but more so you should see your body change i the mirror and go by how your cloths are fitting.  keep diet the same and up cardio by 5 minutes a session for next week to 10 days. I like to increase cardio first then start stripping caloires slowly.  Change on variable at time so ou know what is going on !!


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