# Upcoming Dbol Cycle



## ckcrown84 (Nov 25, 2011)

Hello everyone, obviously I am new to the forum. Provided this forum is reasonable and I encounter some legitimate people I plan to stick around for a bit, discuss working out, share pics, videos, etc.

I am 26, about 8 years lifting experience and have dabbled in prohormone usage.

About to startup a cycle of Dbol. Have 50mg tabs, am planning on running it for 4 weeks at 50mg. Then run Helladrol (prohormone) for 4 weeks. Then PCT (Test booster + Nolvadex--liquinolva). I have had great strength gains when running helladrol so I thought it would be nice to help keep a good chunk of gains from the dbol.

I haven't been on anything for a little while and I still have some slight sensitivity on my nipples--from a cycle a few months ago of Dieselbolan (prohormone).  Nothing major and I have discontinued use of all hormonal supplements. Hasn't gotten worse. Kind of hoping my body will reach homeostasis and equalize and it will just go away.

I am nervous to start the dbol now (might wait until my nipps are completely normal, or until i grow bored). I am nervous about the dbol period because it aromatizes. Plus from what I have researched usage of an AI such as nolvadex lessens the effectiveness of dbol. So...not really sure what to do. Pop the dbol and have the nolvadex on hand in case. Or run the dbol with the nolvadex and have less than optimal gains.

Any informative information would be helpful


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## Usealittle (Nov 26, 2011)

if your gonna use real AAS and not gonna pin..... your not ready for AAS. JMO, but im correct.


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## antonoverlord (Nov 26, 2011)

ys this orals are an effective aas u dont have to pin to use aas IMO, i run w an ai like anatrozole and keep the nolva just in case


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## chucky1 (Nov 26, 2011)

50 mg tabs....really,  dude if you got gyno issues d-bol is notorious for causing gyno, take care of that shit first.  I don't get why some people do d-bol only cycles you will probably lose every thing after the cycle, imo read up on first cycle in the sticky's and do it right bro your liver takes a beating also, so you'll want to take liver assist sups
run aromasin with it not nolva


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## Usealittle (Nov 26, 2011)

^^^^^ this.

dbol holds water..... all of witch after stoppin the dbol, the body will discard. most likly putting you back where you started from. just makin yout insides get a workout ofr very little gain.


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## ckcrown84 (Nov 27, 2011)

Exactly the gyno issues. Why is why I have not started my cycle as of yet.
I got patience for days.

I am good for keeping gains post cycle
I do volume work on cycle (8-12 reps) and after cycle i do (6-8) reps. It keeps my strength up and personally I have been satisfied.

Granted, all I have done thus far as pro hormones

I tried posting pics, the resolution is a bottle cap on this forum.

In any case I am good to go. I really wanna do the Dbol. But, I am not an idiot. I want my body in the proper condition to handle it. We will see.....


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## eire (Nov 27, 2011)

i wouldnt touch dbol my self... i have a small pea sized lump behind my left nipple and i no from experience dbol inflames i. if i was you i would have just got test and use a low dose of letro to keep gyno under control (this it what i have to use) if you are dead set on orals you could consider running tbol instead? oral cycle do work... they just don't pack the same bang as injectables. just get used to pinning my friend.


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## antonoverlord (Nov 27, 2011)

i agree not as effective and ya just dbol probably just loose it all but theres plenty of orals not just dbol and i think yes harder on liver no doubt but if its what he wants to do i dont see it as reason not to do just cause he doesnt want to use a needle, some peoples morals are ?ed when it comes to needles not mine but some


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## OnPoint88 (Nov 27, 2011)

I just love seeing threads like this, makes me think hindsight is 20/20. What I would have done differently my first go.

First of all you have know idea if dbol is for you. Some people like myself are nonresponders to dbol and in fact makes me so lethargic I can't even workout without an ECA stack, so you might be in the buy,sell,trade thread soon with your dbol.

Everyone says an oral only cycle is a waste but if you got the money to do one right, especially when your natural testosterone levels haven't been suppressed then you can take advantage of your natural test as well, but you're not going to do it with dbol which will just shut you down and give you minimal gains and probably some sides. 

Proviron and Primo tabs are not 17aa so you can run them for a few months. Proviron actually has a positive affect on LH, frees up test, and blocks estrogen so you will get the most out of your natural test and get better workouts. Primo tabs arent as good as injecting Primo which apparently is less suppressive than the orals and more effective, but both are antiestrogenic and anabolic. Anavar is a 17aa steroid but the safest of them all and minimally suppressive, a maximum of 6 weeks at the end of your cycle should produce some strength gains. Coincidentally all 3 of the above should have the same dose, 50mg twice a day. This would be a lean strength cycle you could do for 12-16 weeks. Depending on your labs at the end of your cycle you may not need PCT. I would be very interested in the results of this cycle which would be great for athletes in other sports. 

On a side note one of my favorite oral tests is DMT aka Pheraplex, which doesn't aromatize and frees up test but is as toxic as dbol and as suppressive. I treat it like Halotestin, preworkout only.


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## l69lou (Nov 27, 2011)

There is a treasure trove of info on this website. USE IT ! The sticky's are great ! AAS can be used very effectively and relatively safely if you do it RIGHT . If not you can do real damage. I think you need to hold off till you have a better grasp on how to do this and all it takes is some time and reading. Good luck bro and please don't use dbol till you have that gyno issue taken care of- you will regret it IMO


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## ckcrown84 (Nov 27, 2011)

We should definitly talk some more. I would like to discuss some of the things you outlined. Perhaps I will trade the Dbol. I am into big bulky muscles. Not too much into cutting. 
The gyno threats of the dbol is the only reason why I haven't started popping them yet. I already have sensitivty issues--God my life would be over if I developed a serious gyno problem.

In anycase I have not completed 50 threads yet so I can't do PMs. But, as I said I would definitly like to talk, discuss some options. 



OnPoint88 said:


> I just love seeing threads like this, makes me think hindsight is 20/20. What I would have done differently my first go.
> 
> First of all you have know idea if dbol is for you. Some people like myself are nonresponders to dbol and in fact makes me so lethargic I can't even workout without an ECA stack, so you might be in the buy,sell,trade thread soon with your dbol.
> 
> ...


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## OnPoint88 (Nov 27, 2011)

ckcrown84 said:


> We should definitly talk some more. I would like to discuss some of the things you outlined. Perhaps I will trade the Dbol. I am into big bulky muscles. Not too much into cutting.
> The gyno threats of the dbol is the only reason why I haven't started popping them yet. I already have sensitivty issues--God my life would be over if I developed a serious gyno problem.
> 
> In anycase I have not completed 50 threads yet so I can't do PMs. But, as I said I would definitly like to talk, discuss some options.


 The first thing you should do out respect for the vets that can help you is post your stats with a current pic, height, weight, body fat%, and how much weight you're working with for Squats, Bench Press, Barbell Rows, Deadlifts, Barbell Curls, Military Press. There are a lot of people that talk the talk but dont walk the walk.


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## ckcrown84 (Nov 27, 2011)

I have pics, but can't post them because they are high resolution--too big. I tried in the albums section.

I am 5'4 195 lbs.

Bench: ~400
Curl: 155
Seated shoulder press: 275, smith machine 315
Squat: Not enough. ~200--god it is emberessing, lets not discuss it right now. I will be working on that a lot over winter.

I created a flikr for you guys, so here is the link. I talk the talk, and I do walk the walk. 

Flickr: ckcrown84's Photostream



OnPoint88 said:


> The first thing you should do out respect for the vets that can help you is post your stats with a current pic, height, weight, body fat%, and how much weight you're working with for Squats, Bench Press, Barbell Rows, Deadlifts, Barbell Curls, Military Press. There are a lot of people that talk the talk but dont walk the walk.


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## OnPoint88 (Nov 27, 2011)

ckcrown84 said:


> I have pics, but can't post them because they are high resolution--too big. I tried in the albums section.
> 
> I am 5'4 195 lbs.
> 
> ...


If you upload your pics to photobucket you can change the file size. Looks like you have a 405 bench in that video and you have never juiced before? You have a very good solid base to build on and your height is an advantage in bodybuilding. Shorter guys usually have an easier time with legs but looks like you got OCD on upper body. If I were you I would use a cycle to bring my legs up to proportion and do legs every other workout and workout every other day with cardio on my off day. My leg routine would probably be similar to a powerlifters to take full advantage of the cycle. For upper body I would stick with high reps for cut and endurance so your protein goes mostly to legs to build them up. Man you're gonna have start pinnin. Start with a 25g 1.5" pin and do glutes only. Youtube is a great place for instruction and my favorite is the girl giving herself a birth control shot, hey if you girl can do it then that should be motivation enough.


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## ckcrown84 (Nov 27, 2011)

Been thinking about pinning. Have not committed. Ive never done the real deal. Only done about 3 cycles of Prohormones (beastdrol, helladrol).

As I mentioned I have 100 tabs of 50mg Dbol.

Gyno scares me so haven't started any of them. Might do something else if I can find it (not well connected in the department, and i spent all my spare cash on those orals and a 10lbs of protein). Plus I am a college student so I am usually poor. Makes me upset that I have those dbol pills just sitting there. I was really excited about starting those up.

Lets keep it oral for now (i know that is dissapointing). 
Might just run another Helladrol cycle starting tomorrow. From my understanding it does not aromatize so it won't cause my lil gyno issues to flare up any. Probly buy some Liquid Nolvadex online this week. 

Anyway get back at me.

This Flikr thing will work good enough for me. I plan to routinely post lift videos. Keeps me motivated, competitive, and I hope they motivate others as well! Probably record a 135lbs weighted Dips this week. 

BTW, really digging this forum so far, I do plan to stick around 



OnPoint88 said:


> If you upload your pics to photobucket you can change the file size. Looks like you have a 405 bench in that video and you have never juiced before? You have a very good solid base to build on and your height is an advantage in bodybuilding. Shorter guys usually have an easier time with legs but looks like you got OCD on upper body. If I were you I would use a cycle to bring my legs up to proportion and do legs every other workout and workout every other day with cardio on my off day. My leg routine would probably be similar to a powerlifters to take full advantage of the cycle. For upper body I would stick with high reps for cut and endurance so your protein goes mostly to legs to build them up. Man you're gonna have start pinnin. Start with a 25g 1.5" pin and do glutes only. Youtube is a great place for instruction and my favorite is the girl giving herself a birth control shot, hey if you girl can do it then that should be motivation enough.


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## Vibrant (Nov 27, 2011)

Listen bro, judging by your posts and pics, you know how to train and diet fairly well. now my best advice would be for you to do a cycle similar to this:

Weeks test e or c 1-7 500mg a week and from weeks 8-12 750mg
Weeks 1-5 dbol 40mg ed
On cycle ai: while your on dbol and if you've had gyno problems Aromasin 25mg ed, then after dbol you can drop it 12.5 ed or eod.

Two weeks after last injection pct starts:

Clomid100/100/75/50
Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5

Now, imo that would be a safer cycle than an oral only, it will also be much easier to keep gains.


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## littlekev (Nov 27, 2011)

ckcrown84 said:


> Hello everyone, obviously I am new to the forum. Provided this forum is reasonable and I encounter some legitimate people I plan to stick around for a bit, discuss working out, share pics, videos, etc.
> 
> I am 26, about 8 years lifting experience and have dabbled in prohormone usage.
> 
> ...



the good old days were i said i didn't want to pin. Bro run test, arom, with a clomid pct. You will love it and its much better. But if you won't listen, then do as said, at least take care of your qyno and estrogen symptoms first.


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## littlekev (Nov 27, 2011)

Vibrant said:


> Listen bro, judging by your posts and pics, you know how to train and diet fairly well. now my best advice would be for you to do a cycle similar to this:
> 
> Weeks test e or c 1-7 500mg a week and from weeks 8-12 750mg
> Weeks 1-5 dbol 40mg ed
> ...



Good advice, get estro in check the run this cycle!


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## ckcrown84 (Nov 28, 2011)

I can't get any Test.
Everyone says to combine the dbol pills I have with test. One day perhaps!

No worries guys, I won't touch the Dbol until I get the gyno shit taken care of. That would be foolish.

hdrol is weak compared to the real deal we are all discussing so I will just toy with that until the gyno is taken care of. 

As far as the Aromasin on cycle, won't that interfere with the effectiveness of the dbol? Instead of running the dbol with minimal effectiveness I may end up trying to trade it with something that doesn't cause gyno flare ups or high gyno risk. 



I will check for some Aromasin on the cem research product sites today. 


Vibrant said:


> Listen bro, judging by your posts and pics, you know how to train and diet fairly well. now my best advice would be for you to do a cycle similar to this:
> 
> Weeks test e or c 1-7 500mg a week and from weeks 8-12 750mg
> Weeks 1-5 dbol 40mg ed
> ...


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## OnPoint88 (Nov 28, 2011)

ckcrown84 said:


> I can't get any Test.
> Everyone says to combine the dbol pills I have with test. One day perhaps!
> 
> No worries guys, I won't touch the Dbol until I get the gyno shit taken care of. That would be foolish.
> ...


I would trade the dbol for some letro which would help get rid of the gyno tissue and has been shown to increase test levels.


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## ckcrown84 (Nov 28, 2011)

I'M willing to trade the dbol for some other powerful orals that don't have gyno risks 
Ile pick up some letro from a chem research site 


Just. Got back from the gym got a nice one in. 
Love incline smith machine at a slight angle after flat 
I wanna be able to rest a coffee mug on my upper chest by winters end ! 



OnPoint88 said:


> I would trade the dbol for some letro ywhich would help get rid of the gyno tissue and has been shown to increase test levels.


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## banker23 (Nov 28, 2011)

ckcrown84 said:


> I'M willing to trade the dbol for some other powerful orals that don't have gyno risks
> Ile pick up some letro from a chem research site
> 
> 
> ...


 
What about Androhard from Primordial performance...it's supposed to help with gyno. I used it with their Andromass (it was my first hormonal product) and I loved it.


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## Calves of Steel (Nov 28, 2011)

If you want to minimize gyno you could always split the dbol and add in a bit of another oral, like 25 dbol and 30 var. I've done 2 oral only cycles. one 50 mg winni which made me look great but gave me two pretty awful injuries, and another 50mg dbol which gave me anxiety for a few days, then crazy strength and i puffed up. 

If you can at least get someone else to pin you, you will be much happier with test and it's better for your health.


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## ckcrown84 (Nov 28, 2011)

Not really interested in messing with any more ph. 
I use two and know they work for me 
Beastdrol and helladrol
No need to try anything new and be dissapointed 
I am really only interested in doing some real oral gear 

I have heard somewhat good things about the andro series. Personoally I think it is.overpriced but to each his own 




banker23 said:


> What about Androhard from Primordial performance...it's supposed to help with gyno. I used it with their Andromass (it was my first hormonal product) and I loved it.


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## OnPoint88 (Nov 28, 2011)

ckcrown84 said:


> Not really interested in messing with any more ph.
> I use two and know they work for me
> Beastdrol and helladrol
> No need to try anything new and be dissapointed
> ...


 I think those ph may be causing your gyno regardless of what they claim, estrogen isn't the only cause of gyno. If there's one thing I regret most is not saving and doing things right. Haste does make waste.


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## ckcrown84 (Nov 28, 2011)

Winni definitly isn't for me. I have absolutely no desire to loose fat and cut. I want to puff up like the incredible hulk. I want bulk.

Var is pricey and I doubt I could get it. Who knows I will probably sit on my Dbol for a few months until whatever gyno issues I have are gone. Then get some letro and have it. May the gods favor me. 

I would love to have like a 500lbs bench by the end of winter--yeah yeah lemme dream. We will see how close I get. 

PH's be as they may. My bench averages in the 360's. When I take Helladrol my bench ends up around 400. Most I ever got was 410. I want to get back into the 400's without PH then take a real cycle (oral only...I know i suck!) and see if I can't sky rocket into the upper 450s. Thats the goal! 

I really like weighted dips, they have helped me get my bench up over the years. Too bad the chain on the drip belt is only long enough for 3- 45lbs plates  Kinda stopped doing them for a while. But I am going to start again and just work for reps with that weight. Throw them in on Thursdays (i do chest on Mondays). In any case im rambling!!!


Calves of Steel said:


> If you want to minimize gyno you could always split the dbol and add in a bit of another oral, like 25 dbol and 30 var. I've done 2 oral only cycles. one 50 mg winni which made me look great but gave me two pretty awful injuries, and another 50mg dbol which gave me anxiety for a few days, then crazy strength and i puffed up.
> 
> If you can at least get someone else to pin you, you will be much happier with test and it's better for your health.


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## OnPoint88 (Nov 28, 2011)

ckcrown84 said:


> Winni definitly isn't for me. I have absolutely no desire to loose fat and cut. I want to puff up like the incredible hulk. I want bulk.
> 
> Var is pricey and I doubt I could get it. Who knows I will probably sit on my Dbol for a few months until whatever gyno issues I have are gone. Then get some letro and have it. May the gods favor me.
> 
> ...


Test has to be the base of any cycle and oral test is very expensive: Restandol/Andriol. The good news is its not 17aa so you can do a long albeit expensive cycle. I think once the letro gets rid of your gyno then 250mcg ed oct would be best to keep it gone, so get a liquid it's easier to measure.

Once you have the money for all of this then use the dbol:

These should be taken on an empty stomach when you wake up and an hour before you workout.
25mgDbol/Anadrol 2xDay 1st 4 weeks
Andriol 280mg 2xDay 12 weeks
50mgProviron/Primobolan Ace 2xday 12 weeks
50mgAnavar/Winstrol 2xDay last 4 weeks
Clomid and Nolvadex PCT

I recommend human grade but if cost is a factor there are a lot of sponsors here with websites and lists in their threads that sometimes have very low prices. Your choice of sponsor and lab is entirely on your own research, but you have plenty of time for that while you're saving. I have seen 100/50mg Var for 180 or 100/25mg Var for 90.


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## ckcrown84 (Nov 28, 2011)

Wowser, that is a hell of a list! I don't think I am ready for that, or have anywhere near the finances (as I said I am in college!)
No worries though I am absorving some advice, I will look up all those. As I said I feel like my best option is to trade the dbol for another anabolic compound that has minimal gyno risk (yet, not a cutting compound).

I also will look into oral test, the price is scary! 

As far as sources, well I am a picky one. I am tough with my money. Online sources are a bit too...distant. If they rip me off their are no consequences, nor worry of consequences. Not quite sure how I feel about that. If I do an online source it will be someone that I have built a working repor with and feel a bit of trust. I will slowly build up to that. As far as board sponsors, well unless I have spoken to you and built a repor I probably won't be too trusting. This is a world of marketing, scams, and people hustling others. The internet is a dangerous place haha

OnPoint88, thanks for taking the time corresponding with me. 



OnPoint88 said:


> Test has to be the base of any cycle and oral test is very expensive: Restandol/Andriol. The good news is its not 17aa so you can do a long albeit expensive cycle. I think once the letro gets rid of your gyno then 250mcg ed oct would be best to keep it gone, so get a liquid it's easier to measure.
> 
> I am a big fan of simplicity. Simple cycles, simple lifts, simple meals. haha. The below cycle seems a bit complex for me. I do appreciate the help and I will research each compoound.
> 
> ...


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## OnPoint88 (Nov 28, 2011)

ckcrown84 said:


> Wowser, that is a hell of a list! I don't think I am ready for that, or have anywhere near the finances (as I said I am in college!)
> No worries though I am absorving some advice, I will look up all those. As I said I feel like my best option is to trade the dbol for another anabolic compound that has minimal gyno risk (yet, not a cutting compound).
> 
> I also will look into oral test, the price is scary!
> ...


It's nice to share a hobby with someone who has put the work in. A lot of people come on here out of shape asking what steroid burns fat. The great thing about hitting a plateau is that you will respond the best. I like to see fellow bodybuilders rewarded for their hard work instead of the blow up dolls that come and go.

Let me explain the list in terms you will understand:

1. Test is necessary for normal body function and once you start suppressing that you need to replace it, that's why test is the base. Oral Test does have mild gains but they are solid gains and you're not using it for gains anyway, just your base.

2. Anadrol and Dbol are very similar, very anabolic and very strong, also very toxic with sides. All steroids are derived from testosterone but are not a replacement for testosterone like your base is. 

3. Proviron and Primo are dht derived which tends to mean more androgenic and antiestrogenic. This is of course will protect you from the Anadrol/Dbol and harden up any water retention.

4. Anavar/Winstrol are similar, again dht derived but 17aa so only for a short run. They will also dry out any water retention and turn your size into strength that you can retain at the end of your cycle. Anavar and Anadrol are the best for strength, but Anavar keeps it on.

So you see, you need all of them. If you were to use just one oral then I would choose 6 weeks of Anavar at 100mg ED. Proviron isnt an anabolic so wouldn't be my first choice but my second choice to stack with anavar for its positive affects on LH and frees up more of your natual test while giving you a boost in the gym. Beyond that you need to save for the whole package to be the whole package.

If you save a pic when it is small on your screen it will stay small. Save this pic and you should be able to use it for an avatar:


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## ckcrown84 (Nov 28, 2011)

Thanks for the pic. I uploaded it to an album, but I am either blind or I can inot for the life of me find where to set it as my avatar!
Appreciate the compliment also, yes it is nice to talk to fellow lifters and discuss things with people that have experience in the gym.

Thanks for the breakdown. Not sure if my budget would ever allow me to get all of that. Could we design a somewhat smaller cycle? 
My only concern with the dbol is having a gyno flare while on cycle...then having to take some anti-estrogen stuff which in turn would limit the effects of dbol. Which is why I really liked the sound of Proviron. Even if it is weaker. hell, if one ain't doing injections then i'm already willing to sacrifice.
Oral test for 12 weeks, pm me what you think thatll run my wallet. Once I secure something like that then we can fill in the gaps. I see your logic with the test as base. Boy...who knew getting jacked could be such an expensive hobby 

I am out for the night. Tomorrow got a big day. Work + a vicious back workout awaiting me...can't wait. Gotta get rid of that pesky back. BTW remind me sometime this week to post some new pics. Recently got a sick tribal tat done. I am a bit paler now though, its winter!


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## Crunk (Nov 28, 2011)

ckcrown, nice bench man. Definitely killing the upper body.


Some great info in here dropped by onpoint88. Will sub to this so I can find it later.


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## ckcrown84 (Nov 29, 2011)

Appreciate it. and I agree
onpoint88 is def on point with his advice. 


Crunk said:


> ckcrown, nice bench man. Definitely killing the upper body.
> 
> 
> Some great info in here dropped by onpoint88. Will sub to this so I can find it later.


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## ckcrown84 (Nov 29, 2011)

Sust 250 is affordable for me...boy I am diving in the deep end here. Highly thinking about going for it...hell its only 1 pin a week.


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## banker23 (Nov 29, 2011)

ckcrown84 said:


> As far as sources, well I am a picky one. I am tough with my money. Online sources are a bit too...distant. If they rip me off their are no consequences, nor worry of consequences. Not quite sure how I feel about that. If I do an online source it will be someone that I have built a working repor with and feel a bit of trust. I will slowly build up to that. As far as board sponsors, well unless I have spoken to you and built a repor I probably won't be too trusting. This is a world of marketing, scams, and people hustling others. The internet is a dangerous place haha


 
If you are worried about sources, just check out the sponsor section on this website and read some reviews. There are several sponsors with impeccable reputations that will make things right even if something gets messed up. My first order was done perfectly and ahead of schedule and the company I went with has a stellar reputation and has been in business for many years.

Don't let one or two bad reviews scare you away though...sometimes those are just people who have some vendetta and want to cause trouble. If you see alot of customers willing to defend their source's reputation you need to say to yourself, "this company must treat their customers right to foster this kind of loyalty."


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## ckcrown84 (Nov 29, 2011)

Interesting, I have 1 place in mind they are a board rep here. But, we aren't allowed to discuss sources. So if you are up for it shoot me a PM. 

Yes, you are right. I just am paranoid, perhaps because I am a virgin to the online market--that and my money is hard to come by.



banker23 said:


> If you are worried about sources, just check out the sponsor section on this website and read some reviews. There are several sponsors with impeccable reputations that will make things right even if something gets messed up. My first order was done perfectly and ahead of schedule and the company I went with has a stellar reputation and has been in business for many years.
> 
> Don't let one or two bad reviews scare you away though...sometimes those are just people who have some vendetta and want to cause trouble. If you see alot of customers willing to defend their source's reputation you need to say to yourself, "this company must treat their customers right to foster this kind of loyalty."


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## OnPoint88 (Nov 29, 2011)

ckcrown84 said:


> Sust 250 is affordable for me...boy I am diving in the deep end here. Highly thinking about going for it...hell its only 1 pin a week.


Sust isn't 1 pin a week, its eod and basically just high dose prop which I swore off both because the prop ester isnt pleasant for me. Had my quads locking up and made me walk like a pimp lol. I do once a week injections and my favorite is Test Enanthate, its a lil higher dose than cyp and a lil higher percentage of test after ester, it's also very cheap even for human grade. I get it for $3 an amp but thats through customs. For a beginner dom is better, less wait and less worry and a lot cheaper with the right source but it is ugl and you need to read up on the dangers of a ugl. I always draw my ugl with a filter needle and then put the pin back on to inject. I also use triple antibiotic ointment after I inject. I learned all that the hard way. 

If you dont wanna trade the dbol for some Var and Proviron then you're gonna need Oral Test and Proviron to use the dbol. The good thing about oral test is it's human grade but that means its usually got to go through customs which isnt so bad because its not in a vial or liquid. A 12 week cycle of 15 caps ED would run you 144 plus shipping. Buy Virigen (Testosterone Undecanoate) | Schering Turkey | Buy Anabolic Steroids Virigen, Restandol, Andriol are all the same thing. Always check the communication with a source first and get confirmations its in stock and when it will ship.


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## OnPoint88 (Nov 29, 2011)

I forgot some other things you gonna need with dbol. OCT: NAC, ALA and PCT:Livercare and Milk Thistle. Creatine and protein shots without the collagenic protein will also make sure you get the most out of it.


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## ckcrown84 (Nov 29, 2011)

I already have some cycle support. 
10lbs of ON Protein.
and an iron man mentality ready to crush weights until my either the steel or me lay broken on the floor.


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