# %BF for abs



## myweightloss2 (Apr 1, 2007)

I'm focussing exclusively on cardio now to trim down.  Once I get to my ideal weight, I'll incorporate weight training into my routine.

My question is, can you see a six pack abs if your body fat (BF) reaches a certain level, even without doing weights?  If so, what level BF would be required.


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## P-funk (Apr 1, 2007)

that is not a great idea if you ask me.

when dieting, you should incorporate some lifting to help maintain muscle mass and increase metabolism.


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## Arnold (Apr 1, 2007)

IMO you would be better off lifting weights and not doing cardio, cardio is effective while you do it, meaning you burn X amount of calories during that period, but weight training builds muscle mass and increases your metabolism 24/7. 

The best thing to do is both weight training and cardio along with a proper cutting diet.


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## CowPimp (Apr 1, 2007)

Cutting out weight training while you are cutting is about the worst possible thing you can do.  You will be far more likely to lose muscle mass, which would be counterproductive to reaching your goals.


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## vortrit (Apr 1, 2007)

I actually had about 7% body fat last year. I'm around 10ish now and I can see my abs a lot better due to weight training, I believe.


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## CowPimp (Apr 3, 2007)

Oh, the rule of thumb is that around 10% body fat you have some pretty decent ab visibility.  I can actually see mine, at least a little bit, when I'm around 12-13% (Yes I'm talking relaxed).  However, the definition in my back is lacking until I get to like 8%.  It depends where you store your fat genetically.


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## Blooming Lotus (Apr 3, 2007)

Prince said:


> IMO you would be better off lifting weights and not doing cardio, cardio is effective while you do it, meaning you burn X amount of calories during that period, but weight training builds muscle mass and increases your metabolism 24/7.
> 
> The best thing to do is both weight training and cardio along with a proper cutting diet.



I think I get what he means. what if he did some body weight exercises and enduro work until he was at a stage he wanted to bring in some weights? Would you advocate something like that toi add to his cardio??

What if I was a fml and predisopsed to different natural muscle fibre predominance than men?..   i really want to be convinced if i can be, so please be gentle with your feedback.

thx.  

BtL.


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## myweightloss2 (Apr 3, 2007)

CowPimp said:


> Oh, the rule of thumb is that around 10% body fat you have some pretty decent ab visibility.  I can actually see mine, at least a little bit, when I'm around 12-13% (Yes I'm talking relaxed).  However, the definition in my back is lacking until I get to like 8%.  It depends where you store your fat genetically.



Thanks for the response.  Would the visibility be there even without weight training once you're around 10% BF?

Thank you for everyone else that has responded.  I have always been under the impression that so long as you lose no more then 2 pounds a week through diet and exercise, you should not be at risk for losing muscle mass.  In terms of my workout, I do have an elliptical machine, so it does include cardio and resistance training.

I've never done weights in my life.  Cardio has always been a part of my life except the last few years when life events made me a bit lazy.

I've done pretty well with getting back to a "normal weight range" and am hoping to lose at least another 10 pounds.

At that point, I thought I would look into investing in a home gym for at least a fitness membership, although the closest club is a bit a way, always busy and not quite as convenient.


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## kicka19 (Apr 4, 2007)

myweightloss2 said:


> Thanks for the response.  Would the visibility be there even without weight training once you're around 10% BF?
> 
> Thank you for everyone else that has responded.  I have always been under the impression that so long as you lose no more then 2 pounds a week through diet and exercise, you should not be at risk for losing muscle mass.  In terms of my workout, I do have an elliptical machine, so it does include cardio and resistance training.
> 
> ...



losing 2lbs a week you are probably losing muscle, thats around a 7000cal defiect, kind of alot, shoot for like 3000-3500 and you perserve the muscle better


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## myweightloss2 (Apr 4, 2007)

kicka19 said:


> losing 2lbs a week you are probably losing muscle, thats around a 7000cal defiect, kind of alot, shoot for like 3000-3500 and you perserve the muscle better



My maintenance calories are 2150.  I've been aiming for 1750 calories per day which is a 400 calorie reduction.  If the HRM is correct, I've tried to expend 600 calories a day through cardio and resistance training.

With only a 400 calorie reduction, would I still run the risk of muscle loss.  Most of the sites I came across do say it is safe to lose 1-2 pounds a week.


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## Blooming Lotus (Apr 4, 2007)

Myweightloss2,

I nearly always start a riot when I mention this amongst ppl who are more fans of weights and high complex carbs ( high being the greatest portion of caloric intake), but because it's information I have and information that has worked for me for yeeears MWL2, I'm going to tell you anyway and just risk being banned for whatever infraction that incurrs me..

becaause I believe in good health and fitness even in the face of opposition.. even thouugh I 'm really hoping these men here can show me something ii can use in my own life...

So anyway,.. using a particular diiet formula, where complex carbs make up only ...ooh.. maybe 10% of daily intake ... and most of thaat made up of produce, and instead going with a ratio of something like 70 % protein ( which as you might imagine might a. be reeally freaking hard to down if not mostly liquid and supplement and b. miight need assistance to catabolise so the broken down portion can metabolise.. and through something like a proportionate serving of dry red wine .. maybe up to 600mls + a laxative and fruit to get the rest out of your body just for the sheer ..lurg of the bulk ..and whothe bejeezus can even worrk out with thaat in their guts.. I really dont want to know) ,

whiich ... ( cough cough) .. leads to the saaame chemical breakdown as if you were injecting steroids for hgrh to maintain muscle density.. by dietarily packing them dense as they otherwise would antrophy ( and god i hope that's the right word ( insert blush face here).. but without the risk of liver failure due to the essential protective metabolic processes juicing doesn't cater to,..

.. I 'm welll used to working out at intensity for up to 12hrs a day.. I nearly faught for a hvy weight martial arts world title aand was offered the fight at only 44 kgs .. but got ..waylaid with acadmeic pursuits.. and at those times when ii feel heavy because of carb loading or food and or time availablity during work or travel ..  I crunch hard on racing a metabolism before I even connntemplate re-incorperating my  weights...
I do though stiiil do my early am walk / run / stairclimbs whatever.. aand i do aerobics and maybe work a boxing bag  but rather than go for more weights .. I hit bwe's and make them high rep over longer period and max muscle fibre down time by working something else in it's stead.. liike enduro fibres.. which will maintain you your density ( with that diet backing it up..ott protein packing it instead of ott carbs causing it to ..enlargen.. ) and are convertible or interchangable with stength fibres as you become ready to re-incorperate them.

I don't know if that information will be of any use to you because it is kind of onn the non-conventional extreme side.. but that 's how I deal with fat times and I am a total fan of your efforts to maintain your body.

Blooming tianshi Lotus.


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## slip (Apr 5, 2007)

thats the most confusing thing ive ever read.

you didnt get offered a shot at the heavy weight world title weighing 44kg unless it was a midget fight.


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## juggernaut2005 (Apr 5, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> Myweightloss2,
> 
> I nearly always start a riot when I mention this amongst ppl who are more fans of weights and high complex carbs ( high being the greatest portion of caloric intake), but because it's information I have and information that has worked for me for yeeears MWL2, I'm going to tell you anyway and just risk being banned for whatever infraction that incurrs me..
> 
> ...


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## kicka19 (Apr 5, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> Myweightloss2,
> 
> I nearly always start a riot when I mention this amongst ppl who are more fans of weights and high complex carbs ( high being the greatest portion of caloric intake), but because it's information I have and information that has worked for me for yeeears MWL2, I'm going to tell you anyway and just risk being banned for whatever infraction that incurrs me..
> 
> ...


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## kicka19 (Apr 5, 2007)

myweightloss2 said:


> My maintenance calories are 2150.  I've been aiming for 1750 calories per day which is a 400 calorie reduction.  If the HRM is correct, I've tried to expend 600 calories a day through cardio and resistance training.
> 
> With only a 400 calorie reduction, would I still run the risk of muscle loss.  Most of the sites I came across do say it is safe to lose 1-2 pounds a week.



what is your total calories burned per day? whatever it is go for 500-750 off that and you should retain a high amount of LBM


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## Duncans Donuts (Apr 5, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> Myweightloss2,
> 
> I nearly always start a riot when I mention this amongst ppl who are more fans of weights and high complex carbs ( high being the greatest portion of caloric intake), but because it's information I have and information that has worked for me for yeeears MWL2, I'm going to tell you anyway and just risk being banned for whatever infraction that incurrs me..
> 
> ...


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## vortrit (Apr 5, 2007)

slip said:


> thats the most confusing thing ive ever read.
> 
> you didnt get offered a shot at the heavy weight world title weighing 44kg unless it was a midget fight.



That's around 96 pounds.


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## myweightloss2 (Apr 5, 2007)

kicka19 said:


> what is your total calories burned per day? whatever it is go for 500-750 off that and you should retain a high amount of LBM



I'm not really sure what is an accurate way of measuring this.  

Here's how I've been doing it.  According to a popular website, an average person of my age (38) and height (5' 11") should consume 2150 calories per day.

To lose weight, they suggest reducing calories to 1750 per day.

Next, introduce cardio.  For this, I generally burn 300 through resistance training in the form of an elliptical machine and about 100 calories a day via walking.

It seems to be working because the pounds are dropping off.  As of this morning, I'm down 30 pounds.  I'm now about 187 and am hoping to get to somewhere between 175-180.


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## danny81 (Apr 5, 2007)

im 6 ft 15 and 165 pounds 16% BF. I can see my abs a little when I flex.


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## Blooming Lotus (Apr 6, 2007)

slip said:


> thats the most confusing thing ive ever read.
> 
> you didnt get offered a shot at the heavy weight world title weighing 44kg unless it was a midget fight.




yah. I did. Fml Kungfu heavy weight title shot. against Debrocco. but on an ammeture circuit because were going to fight men and try to break open a mixed gender title comp before the DojO ko worlds a month or so later... 
long story enouigh I guess.

Im not here to argue the merit of big vs small anyway. I'm just saying that if  a person wants to do is cardio and lay off weights while they bring down their bf,.. then that's how I'd do it and that's what's worked for me in the past.

I saaid it was extreme when I mentioned it and if you don't get it, you'd best do something else.


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## slip (Apr 6, 2007)

are you male or female?

height?

how exactly do you get a world title fight on the amateur circuit?

because you were going to fight men?


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## Blooming Lotus (Apr 7, 2007)

fml.

169 cm.

approach the current fml world heavy weight title owner and do chit chats about how to get around state legislations to get world class fml martial artists to fight men in an open weight all style world comp and agree to fight in a smaller more rural tournie and call it mma .

and mayybe because I was planning to investigate fighting men but maybe just because I wanted to fight her and belt or no belt I would've banked the win and her the loss and that would've been quietly enough. .should it have weent that way.
good competition is hard to find.. and if shee had been given honors as the world's best fml.. I was willing to reality check it come what may.


Kind of getting off track of the thread now so that's what ii did to drop some bf%'s quick and take it or leave it. i'm sure there is plennty of other advice for you.


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## slip (Apr 7, 2007)

thought you were male.  weight makes sense now.  Fml didnt click.


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## Blooming Lotus (Apr 13, 2007)

myweightloss2 said:


> I'm focussing exclusively on cardio now to trim down.  Once I get to my ideal weight, I'll incorporate weight training into my routine.
> 
> My question is, can you see a six pack abs if your body fat (BF) reaches a certain level, even without doing weights?  If so, what level BF would be required.




This morning I was approached by someone who'd recently expressed to me some concern about a few new additional kilos they'd put on in regard to some ankle weights she was using to incorperate into her workout and it brought you back to my mind.
i was just wondering MWL2, in the interst of critical analysis and challenging conventional thinking even, what you ended up doing and what your results have been?

In the grain of how you were saying you were approaching that rip intention, I remember a cpl of yrs back training with a muay thai world title holder who was huuge on cardio coming out of a bulking phase and into his rip and lean and approached his own bulk cycling fairly similarly. I might even get sued for telling that you actually.
Anyway, so he has one of thee single best bodies I have ever come across on any fitness circuit I've ever encountered.
..so I guess I'm a bit of a fan of the approach myself.
I also wanted to clarify that when i said 'endurance', I was also reffering to muscular endurance as opposed solely to cardio endurance to support the density fallout of dropping the hypertrophic heavier resistance work.
It's always nice to be able to dbl and triple check that certain theories prove true so if you want to share a progress report that would be cool of you.
thanks.
Blooming tianshi Lotus.


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## kicka19 (Apr 15, 2007)

i dont get this thread


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## DiGiTaL (Apr 16, 2007)

> It depends where you store your fat genetically.



How exactly can we determine where we store fat genetically? just from visible appearance..or something...?


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## CowPimp (Apr 16, 2007)

DiGiTaL said:


> How exactly can we determine where we store fat genetically? just from visible appearance..or something...?



When you cut, what is the last place you lose fat?  When you bulk, where is the first place you start to notice fat accumulating?


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## DiGiTaL (Apr 16, 2007)

CowPimp said:


> When you cut, what is the last place you lose fat?  When you bulk, where is the first place you start to notice fat accumulating?



Well...the last time I was cutting, the fat was mainly stored around my waist. And when i was bulking I noticed my chest getting fatter. 
I guess its harder for me to determine this since Im a big boned person.


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## CowPimp (Apr 17, 2007)

DiGiTaL said:


> Well...the last time I was cutting, the fat was mainly stored around my waist. And when i was bulking I noticed my chest getting fatter.
> I guess its harder for me to determine this since Im a big boned person.



There you go.  Genetically, you tend to store a lot of fat around the waist and in your chest.  Not the most scientific way of determining that, but you get the idea.


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## DiGiTaL (Apr 17, 2007)

Ya i suppose. Thanks.  
I just hope I can reduce the bf in that area soon...its bugging.


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## Blooming Lotus (Apr 17, 2007)

not that it's urgent cry and sweat over it  so much as a point in the process,  but do you have a plan to do that??


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