# PMS vs Roid Rage



## OneWheyOrAnother (Apr 7, 2011)

For the women here that use steroids. 

Do you find you are more moody during your Pre-menstrual phase, or while on a cycle of steroids ?

Just wondering since I read this



> c. Behavioral side effects
> Next, anabolic steroids affect a woman behaviorally. A woman may find herself very irritable, getting angry over the littlest of incidences, and show signs of high aggression which can lead to violent outbursts. Some doctors and users both refer to these outbursts as "roid rage." More frequently, a woman will suffer from mood swings. She becomes very aware of her surroundings. This heightened awareness can sometimes lead to schizophrenic and/ or psychotic episodes and hypomania (part of the manic-depressive cycle). She might feel like everyone is always staring at her. A woman can become so confident with herself, see another woman who she thinks looks better than her, and be thrown into a depression, or worst a rage. That depression, though, is the marking point of a dependence on anabolic steroids because the first thing the woman will usually do is take another cycle and become a gym rat once again. To accompany the dependence, a woman can also suffer from withdrawal and suffer withdrawal symptoms including psychosis, depression, listlessness, apathy, loss of appetite, feelings of anxiety, or experience the "roid rage" previously mentioned. A woman can become forgetful and very distracted when she is using. Sometimes she will be very confused and wonder why she is doing what she is doing or acting the way she is acting. Most of all she won't understand why the things are happening to her the way they are happening. On anabolic steroids a woman will be very mentally unstable. This will affect all aspects of her life including job, family, and relationships. Steroid users report significantly more somatic, depressive, anxiety, hostility and paranoid complaints when using than when they were not. Most psychological effects will be directly related to the distinct chemical structure of the steroids being used. While very few studies have assessed the relationship of androgens to aggression or violent behavior there is a pattern of association between testosterone levels and observed aggression in these studies. Some studies are plainly stating that evidence documenting short term behavioral changes before and after the use of steroids is extremely limited and inconclusive. Researchers are having trouble determining if violent outbursts and psychological changes of a user are really do to the use of steroids or if some psychological problems were present before use and simply brought to the surface by using. Researchers can't establish how mentally stable a woman was before she started using (unless she started using purposely for the study). This then can distort the results of any study conducted. Researchers are suggesting though that aggressive behavior associated with the use of anabolic steroids poses a significant threat on public health.



http://www.vanderbilt.edu/ans/psychology/health_psychology/anabolic_steroids.htm


----------



## SFW (Apr 7, 2011)

_waits for the resident virilized skanks to chime in_


----------



## OneWheyOrAnother (Apr 7, 2011)

I do realize it varies person to person. My friend claims he gets roid rage while running 40mg of Anavar for 8 weeks. Yet I did a Test, Tren and Var cycle and felt nothing but happiness. Only side effect was that my dick didn't work.


----------



## Built (Apr 7, 2011)

Oral contraceptives are anabolic steroids, and they make most women pretty miserable.


----------



## Typo (Apr 8, 2011)

chronicelite said:


> I do realize it varies person to person. My friend claims he gets roid rage while running 40mg of Anavar for 8 weeks. Yet I did a Test, Tren and Var cycle and felt nothing but happiness. *Only side effect was that my dick didn't work.*


Fucking lol'd


----------



## LightBearer (Apr 8, 2011)

PMS is far more dangerous than roid rage!


----------



## OneWheyOrAnother (Apr 8, 2011)

LightBearer said:


> PMS is far more dangerous than roid rage!



Ive never heard of a woman drowning her son and strangling her husband and then hanging herself like Chris Benoit did....
A woman would just yell at you and then go cry. 

If a woman PMS's on me, I tell her she's lucky that I can't punch her in the fucking face or give her the old cunt punt. 
And then I match her bitchiness and eventually bring her to tears with hurtful words and telling her that she doesn't deserve to live if she is going to take out her misery on other people. 

When I was on Tren, sure I felt irritable at times, but I NEVER EVER ONCE lashed out on anybody. I kept it to myself.
When I was on Tren, my estradiol and progesterone levels matched that of an ovulating woman. I had blood work done to prove it.


----------



## Built (Apr 8, 2011)

Women with postpartum depression have been known to murder their entire families.


----------



## Gena Marie (Apr 8, 2011)

^^^ I have read those stories.  So heart breaking.  I couldn't imagine what those woman are going through to do such horrible things


----------



## LightBearer (Apr 9, 2011)

chronicelite said:


> Ive never heard of a woman drowning her son and strangling her husband and then hanging herself like Chris Benoit did....
> A woman would just yell at you and then go cry.


 But bro how often does fucked up shit like this happen, without the use of steroids? theres no telling what his mental state was, and we dotn know what else he was on. 
giving steroids to an emotionally unstable person is a whole nother story'
that would kind of be like giving a PMS'ing female half a gram of tren people are going to get hurt!


----------



## OneWheyOrAnother (Apr 9, 2011)

Built said:


> Women with postpartum depression have been known to murder their entire families.



I'm not denying this Built, but the way you are wording things is misleading.

You use terms like "known to" and "most women"

That's like saying Muslims have been known to murder their wives and dump their bodies on the side of the road in a trash can. Which you know has happened here multiple times in Delta and Surrey. 

Plus we are talking about PMS and Roid Rage, not postpartum depression.

I know many women who have zero side effects from oral contraceptives and never experience PMS. I also know men who have never had a steroid related freak out. 

I also know the opposite as well. 

Let's not forget the fact that we can have two women with identical hormone profiles, and one may experience PMS and another may not. There is more to it than hormones alone.

My opinion is that elevated hormone levels activate certain genes in their genetic make ups which make them more susceptible to mood alterations.
Otherwise how could you explain the paradox of identical hormone profiles having different impacts on people.

How can you explain why one guy who takes Tren will lose his mind and another will feel no mood changes like myself ??

How can you explain my girlfriend who doesn't PMS, and now she has started oral contraceptives and it has not made her miserable. 

There is more to the story than hormones alone. 

Otherwise, when I was experiencing elevated (comparable to an ovulating woman) estradiol and progesterone levels, I should have experienced PMS while the hormones were on the rise correct ? 

The theory is the sudden shift in hormone levels causes moodiness isn't it ? 

Why didn't I experience this?


----------



## Built (Apr 9, 2011)

Hey, wait a second, I think you may have missed what I was getting at: PMS, postpartum depression, and roid rage have steroid hormones in common. They are ALL "roid rage", and like all side-effects, not everybody gets 'em. 

That was my point. 

Hell, even the main effects of a drug may not show on all people - for example, some folks can take an aspirin and their headache goes. MY headaches giggle at aspirin, then shake them down for their lunch money and send 'em home crying for their mommies. 

Just because an effect doesn't show in all people, doesn't demonstrate it doesn't have an effect. 

Does this clarify?


----------



## OneWheyOrAnother (Apr 9, 2011)

Built said:


> Hey, wait a second, I think you may have missed what I was getting at: PMS, postpartum depression, and roid rage have steroid hormones in common. They are ALL "roid rage", and like all side-effects, not everybody gets 'em.
> 
> That was my point.
> 
> ...



Yes it does clarify, and I agree it does have an affect. But I also think there are more factors involved. Doctors don't know how drugs affect certain genes in people, thus some people get horrible side effects and some get none. I definitely think hormones are a precursor, but I think it's gene activation and/or deactivation which is the true culprit behind the behavior.

But I think your point is that, they are all from the same source, steroid hormones. And the effects will vary person to person


----------



## Built (Apr 10, 2011)

chronicelite said:


> Yes it does clarify, and I agree it does have an affect. But I also think there are more factors involved. Doctors don't know how drugs affect certain genes in people, thus some people get horrible side effects and some get none. I definitely think hormones are a precursor, but I think it's gene activation and/or deactivation which is the true culprit behind the behavior.



There are always more factors involved. 

When drugs are tested for main effects, they're measured as average responses against a control group - which is there because of placebo effect. 

This does not exhonorate steroids from being known to induce aggression. 

Now before you go tearing me a new one, I have a lot of friends who use gear and don't get "roid rage" - and I've been around physical culture for a LONG time. 

I've seen two gear-using men lose it; one punched out a wall right in front of me when I was about seventeen (ex-husband of a relative of mine) and the other, one of her old boyfriends,  punched out the windows of her car while I was watching. Both were on. 

I've also had two boyfriends pull shit like this, and neither was on. 

People do stupid shit. Gear is known to increase the per-capita rate at which people do stupid shit. Not everyone who runs gear does stupid shit. Some gear users would have done stupid shit either way. Some would not have.


----------



## OneWheyOrAnother (Apr 10, 2011)

Built said:


> There are always more factors involved.
> 
> When drugs are tested for main effects, they're measured as average responses against a control group - which is there because of placebo effect.
> 
> ...



Well said. 

But at the same time, why do we have people like LightBearer saying;



LightBearer said:


> PMS is far more dangerous than roid rage!



When they are more or less the same thing? I do realize that every woman experiences a monthly period, where as not every man uses steroids. So is it just a numbers game?


----------



## Built (Apr 10, 2011)

No clue. For one, I missed that post and for another, I never had PMS until I started to go through menopause. I was shocked at how profound the effect was on my mood - and impressed at how completely transdermal progesterone - a steroid - eliminated it. The only time I get any hint of it is when I forget to smear it on for more than a few days.


----------



## KelJu (Apr 10, 2011)

Built said:


> Women with postpartum depression have been known to murder their entire families.



Beat me to it. Postpartum depression is a major malfunction in the chemical makeup of a woman's brain. Some women go from normal everyday people to drowning their infants in the bathtub with no explanation for their actions.

Anything that alters brain chemistry has potential to trigger mental illness for people who have a genetic propensity for it. That is why so many kids turn into douchebags when they hit puberty. Roid rage is as real as teenage angst. Some kids make the transission with little or no change in bahavior. Some kids like myself go crazy and try to destroy everything around them. 

Same is true for adults who are doing anything that alters their typical hormone balance. I was born to be a manic depressive, but with time I have been able to manage it. On gear, holy fucking shit, I go from feeling like a God, to mashing my teeth trying to punch the person ahead of me at the Walmart line, to crying at the end of Short Circuit 2. The rapid cycling of moods really wears me out.


----------



## OneWheyOrAnother (Apr 10, 2011)

Wow..... guess I'm just lucky. Even Tren doesn't phase my mood


----------



## OneWheyOrAnother (Apr 10, 2011)

Built said:


> No clue. For one, I missed that post and for another, I never had PMS until I started to go through menopause. I was shocked at how profound the effect was on my mood - and impressed at how completely transdermal progesterone - a steroid - eliminated it. The only time I get any hint of it is when I forget to smear it on for more than a few days.



That's interesting that progesterone helped you. Because the common belief is that it was lowered estradiol that caused mood swings after menopause.

And now we are starting to learn more about andropause. 

Andropause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Built (Apr 10, 2011)

I have come to understand that I probably needed progesterone my whole life. Insanely heavy bleeding when I was young was the tip-off. The estradiol conjecture turns out to have been as valid to women's health as the lipid hypothesis was to diet; Jerilynn Prior at UBC has written extensively on this.


----------



## OneWheyOrAnother (Apr 10, 2011)

Built said:


> The estradiol conjecture turns out to have been as valid to women's health as the lipid hypothesis was to diet; Jerilynn Prior at UBC has written extensively on this.



Heck, even if my AI dose is too high (thus lowering estradiol too much), I physically feel like garbage. And my gains in the gym suffer as well. And that occurs within weeks.... so I can only imagine chronic estradiol deficiency.


----------



## Built (Apr 10, 2011)

Yes, we do need SOME estrogen. I had mine tested and it was so excessively high it was off the chart. Testosterone was below post-menopausal range. Progesterone similarly on the floor. 

Supplemental progesterone opposes my estrogen, and any suppression is countered through the aromatization of the supplemental test. 

You need to look at the relative scales of progesterone and estrogen in a woman's body.

http://www.lifelabs.com/files/BC/Reference/brl_ranges.pdf
For women of childbearing age, the normal range for estrogen is 110 - 1,650 pmol/L (for normal males and postmenopausal females it's < 220pmol/L)
For progesterone: 2-81 nmol/L (normal for males and postmenopausal females is <2 nmol/L)

Look at the units. pico is 10^-12; nano is 10^-9
http://www.telecomabc.com/p/prefix.html

This means the normal range for progesterone is 2,000 to 81,000 pmol/L. 
(Normal for males and post-menopausal females is <2,000 pmol/L)

Progesterone opposes estrogen's action, and both estrogen and progesterone decline as we age. By menopause, the normal ratio at the top end for both steroids: estrogen : progesterone = 220:2000, or about 1:10

That's right - progesterone is about ten times higher than estrogen in both normal men and post-menopausal women. 

Guess what happens to the ratio of estrogen : progesterone during menopause when both levels fluctuate? It should be clear from the scale that even large changes in estradiol won't have the impact of modest changes in progesterone.

Progesterone is calming. It is sometimes administered to settled down acute psychotic episodes, and to women trying to avoid going into premature labour. 

Progesterone is suppressed in women taking oral contraceptives (which are 17-methylated anabolic steroids, after all), as is free testosterone: SHBG in women on OC rises 400%; it falls upon cessation but never returns to normal.
Impact of oral contraceptives on sex hormone-bindi... [J Sex Med. 2006] - PubMed result

For this reason, testosterone is permanently suppressed in women who have taken oral contraceptives; mine still was when I had been off them for over ten years, when I first went on transdermal testosterone replacement.


----------



## StacyCaliman (Apr 12, 2011)

Built said:


> Oral contraceptives are anabolic steroids, and they make most women pretty miserable.



oral contraceptives are steriods, but they are not anabolic steriods.


----------



## Built (Apr 12, 2011)

They are to fat cells!


----------



## OneWheyOrAnother (Apr 13, 2011)

Built said:


> For this reason, testosterone is permanently suppressed in women who have taken oral contraceptives; mine still was when I had been off them for over ten years, when I first went on transdermal testosterone replacement.



I had no idea.... now I feel bad for my girlfriend who has just began oral contraceptives as of 1 month ago.

Mind you, some men have their testosterone permanently suppressed when using Anabolic Steroids. It's the choices we make to enjoy life while we are young. 

Any regrets on using them Built ?


----------



## Nightowl (Apr 15, 2011)

being only two cycles, I am near the last on the list, so please bare that in mind.

Mine is womanhood time, not roids.

I think, I don't get on well with t3 though


----------



## Built (Apr 15, 2011)

chronicelite said:


> I had no idea.... now I feel bad for my girlfriend who has just began oral contraceptives as of 1 month ago.
> 
> Mind you, some men have their testosterone permanently suppressed when using Anabolic Steroids. It's the choices we make to enjoy life while we are young.
> 
> Any regrets on using them Built ?



Except that while you are "on", your levels are elevated. Ours are suppressed, and stay there. This has serious repercussions on women's health: dry eye, reduced sex drive, dry skin, slowing of metabolism (it affects the ability of liver deiodinase enzyme to deiodinate t4 into T3), mood/depression, and even connective tissue health are affected by testosterone deficiency. 

So yeah, had I known, I never would have used them. They ruined my health and contributed to the obesity and migraines from which I used to suffer.


----------



## B-Cubed (Apr 19, 2011)

Built said:


> So yeah, had I known, I never would have used them. They ruined my health and contributed to the obesity and migraines from which I used to suffer.



I haven't taken them in years, and I wish I never had.  Condoms.


----------



## Built (Apr 19, 2011)

Indeed. OC are poison.


----------

