# Carb-ups!!!!



## w8lifter (Apr 19, 2002)

_These were all originally posted by Dr. Pain:_

A friend asked a question on another forum, the answers were so good it is worth of copying over here! (I hope the parties involved don't mind, knowlegde is worth sharing!)

The question was:

I'm in my last 5 weeks of the contest diet and have not been doing any carb ups. I feel fine and was wondering if I'm hindering my process by not carbing up? Also, when I do carb up I usally follow the bev. recomended carb up plan but I just don't feel any kind of pump the next day. The last time I carbed up was about 2 weeks ago and I used 10 packets of the quaker oat sugar instant oatmeal, you talk about a serious pump the next day...that did it! Is eating the sugar oatmeal terible for me, especially if I only do it once every 10 days or so? 
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The replies:

Eating 10 packets of finely ground oats ( over processed), hydrogenated fats, sugar and a host of flavorings may not be such a good idea so close to contest. 

Think about it, the glycemic index is close to a candy bar and you had ten of these packets? 

Old fashioned rolled oats, sweet potatoes,veggies,a banana and butter as your carb meal "might" leave a lot less margin for error or blurring your definition.


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You are doing more harm than good by skipping the carb meals. If you are following a Beverly diet you need them here is why. 

Lack of carbs in the diet for extended periods of time can reduce thyroid hormones resonsible for metabolism maintenance. When they drop so does your metabolism. 

Having a twice weekly carb meal dramatically increases your caloric intake for those two days. This is very important. After a period of time the body will adjust to a given caloric level. It does this by slowing the metabolism. The body response of lowering the metabolism is what leads to yo yo dieting. Eating a higher caloric intake a few days a week prevents this. Some call increasing calories then decreasing them zig zag dieting. 

Resistance training is anaerobic. Anaerobic means that body must metabolize glucose for energy during weight training. The body can not metabolize fat to fuel your weight training. With the preferential source of fuel is glucose which comes from carbs and no carbs in your diet, training will eventually begin to back slide. When this happens you are not subjecting your muscles to the resistance it is used and the body will begin to metabolize muscle for fuel. Eating the carbs or "carbing up" gives your body something to fuel workouts. So eat your carbs. 

Last point. 
The body is an extremely efficient machine and when caloric intake is below maintenance it needs to find a source of fuel. Fat is great. Fat can exist with out being supported by incoming calories. But muscle does need calories. The body looks at the muscle as catabolically expensive will rid itself of it. Reducing the amount of lean mass you have reduces the maintenance number of calories the body needs to survive. Remember the body is very efficient. So it will metabolize muscle and leave the fat. Once amino acids are in the blood stream the body is signaled that it is breaking down muscle (this is why Beverly recommends supplementing with aminos as the contest supports to artificially kick the fat buring on with out having to sacrifice muscle), maybe too much, and will beging to burn fat as well. Now if you have been trying to train without carbs and the weights you are used to lifting are decreasing the previous scenario becomes even worse. 

Eat your carb meals per the diet you are on. 

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. There are very specific reasons why we list the carb meals on certain days and certain times. Skipping the carb meals will usually do more harm than good. Below is the functions of the carb meal and why it is important. 

5. Functions of the Carb Load Meal: 
a. Refuels glycogen stores 
b. Prevents decline in metabolism, (T3 synthesis remains optimal) 
c. Provides variety ??? mental ease 
d. Facilitates muscular growth by inducing uptake of Amino Acids and insulin 
surge drives IGF-1 production. Optimizes ???anabolic??? effect of insulin, while 
minimizing the lipogenic (fat producing) effect. 
So don???t skip your carb meals ??? ever! 

--------------------------------------------

With much credit and praise to Beverly International! _and Dr. Pain_


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 19, 2002)

Thanks w8!  

DP


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## w8lifter (Apr 19, 2002)

_More Pain!_

The carb-up would be based on body weight, take the last meal only and use approx 1/4 measured before cooking of oatmeal for every 35 pounds of BW, 2 oz of yam per 35 pounds, and 1 oz of banana per 35, also one cup of veggies with 1 TBL butter (all BW's)! 
It's a lot of food, but works great!! Dr. Pain


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## nikegurl (Apr 19, 2002)

for the veggies and butter - it's one cup veggies and 1 tbl butter per 35 lbs or is that part the same for everyone - 1 cup and 1 Tbl total?

thanks again.  if you have a minute can you check my post.  i worked out a diet plan and would feel much better if you could check it out first.


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## w8lifter (Apr 19, 2002)

Yes...one cup veggies & 1 tbsp butter TOTAL...not based on BW! You could also use p/b or flax.

Saw your other post, butt couldn't respond earlier...going there now!


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## nikegurl (Apr 19, 2002)

thanks.  i swear i'll be less needy once i get going!

really.


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## w8lifter (Apr 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> thanks.  i swear i'll be less needy once i get going!
> 
> really.



That's no problem...I've been where you are now...I don't mind helping...I'm still very needy towards DP


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## rks1969 (Apr 19, 2002)

will it be ok to mix some protein w/ the oatmeal in the carb up meals?it just seems to be alot of food to have so little protein.tonite is my first real carb up.it'll take a little getting used to for me to get all that in.


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## Robboe (Apr 20, 2002)

Why butter on the carb up?


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by rks1969 *_
> will it be ok to mix some protein w/ the oatmeal in the carb up meals?it just seems to be alot of food to have so little protein.tonite is my first real carb up.it'll take a little getting used to for me to get all that in.




Works for some, but the program is designed for glycogen replenishment, I would try it both ways, I have!

TCD, (I'm not going to stoop to baby or boy as she does),  the butter or fat source slows the rate of conversion to serum glucose and stabilizes insulin during the liver and muscle glycogen replacement!


DP


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## Robboe (Apr 20, 2002)

But surely if you're gonna eat that many carbs that insulin would be pretty high anyway?


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## TheSupremeBeing (Apr 20, 2002)

That's kinda the point, baby.


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> But surely if you're gonna eat that many carbs that insulin would be pretty high anyway?





> Old fashioned rolled oats, sweet potatoes,veggies,a banana and butter as your carb meal "might" leave a lot less margin for error or blurring your definition.




No, look at the deisgn, it's kind of like a five stage rocket!  Boom, the banana kicks in, slowed by the veggies and fat. Next, here cums Mr. Sweet potato, tell the liver to open wide 

Next stage, oats, followed by the veggies, finally the fat can face a 10% conversion to glucose.  This is a tried and true system, but we always suggest that a person does what is right for him/her/it!

Also, if you are depleted, consider how much your liver and muscles actually hold, add up these carbs, this is not a total replenishment, nor will you spill!  The moderate and stabile insulin spike generated by this, in a depleted state, works very well.


DP


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## Robboe (Apr 20, 2002)

I see.


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## w8lifter (Apr 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing *_
> That's kinda the point, baby.


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## rks1969 (Apr 22, 2002)

The carb up was definitely the missing piece!!I did the "gut buster"carb up & lost 3lbs in 3 days.Man,you guys are great!!!!    You're a better source of useful info than almost any mag I've ever bought!!!   
   w8 & Dr Pain, I can't thank you enough!!!!!


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## w8lifter (Apr 22, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by rks1969 *_
> The carb up was definitely the missing piece!!I did the "gut buster"carb up & lost 3lbs in 3 days.Man,you guys are great!!!!    You're a better source of useful info than almost any mag I've ever bought!!!
> w8 & Dr Pain, I can't thank you enough!!!!!




Excellent rks!  Thank you!


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## nikegurl (Apr 22, 2002)

hey rks1969 - how many days did you deplete before doing the carb up?

i'm planning to deplete today (mon), tues, wed and then carb up thurs night.  then deplete again fri sat and carb up sunday night.

w8dp is that a good way to go?  i was debating wed pm and sun pm or thurs pm and sunday pm.  decided to go with thurs since i just started.  yes?


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## rks1969 (Apr 22, 2002)

I depleted way to long!!!I went about 6 weeks w/o carbs except for what I thought was ok from veggie sources.Lost about 20lbs during the first3 wks,then weight loss stopped for next 3 wks completely.Great info from w8 & dp got me on the right track again.
Don't go as long as I did 'cause I started to get mean as hell until the carb up last friday.Now I'll try to carb up every 5-6 days following w8 & dp's advice.
 Hate to sound like a groupie,but they're the best


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## nikegurl (Apr 22, 2002)

i'm an unabashed groupie!  their knowledge is incredible and even better - they take the time to help us out.


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## w8lifter (Apr 22, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by rks1969 *_
> I depleted way to long!!!I went about 6 weeks w/o carbs except for what I thought was ok from veggie sources.Lost about 20lbs during the first3 wks,then weight loss stopped for next 3 wks completely.Great info from w8 & dp got me on the right track again.
> Don't go as long as I did 'cause I started to get mean as hell until the carb up last friday.Now I'll try to carb up every 5-6 days following w8 & dp's advice.
> Hate to sound like a groupie,but they're the best




Every fourth day you should have a carb-up! And actually...since you went so freaking long w/o one...I think you should add carbs to three of your meals every day for at least a week before you go back to depletion!


FYI to everyone...I never recommended going 6 weeks w/o a carb up! You really are doing more harm than good by skipping the carb ups!


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## rks1969 (Apr 22, 2002)

The 6wk depletion really wasn't done purposely.I thought I was doing the right thing when I counted carbs from veggie(fiber) sources in my daily counts.Occasionally I did have 1/2c brown rice & a sweet potato w/ butter,but not really enough to make a real difference.They say you learn from your mistakes...what a lesson.


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## w8lifter (Apr 22, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by rks1969 *_
> They say you learn from your mistakes...what a lesson.


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## epimetheus (Apr 22, 2002)

How low do you have to be with carb intake to have to carb up?  under 80g? under 100?


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## nikegurl (Apr 25, 2002)

first carb up tonight (day 4 of depletion)

2 questions

would it be ok to go with 5 meals today and then the carb up as meal 6?  my last meal is usually at 10:00 at night and i didn't want to eat protein with the carb up.  so can i have my carb up meal at 10:00 and skip the protein meal?  i'd be sure to get plenty of protein (at least 30 grams) at each of my other 5 meals.

also - is it better to carb up same 2 days each week like thursday and sunday or just every 4th day?  (if it's the same 2 days then one of the carb ups is coming after 3 days instead of 4)

thanks!


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 25, 2002)

Yes, 6th meal is fine!  10o PM is no problem. 

Also Mon & Thurs work well, especially if Monday is a training day!  Carb-ups work better when deplete!  Some hardcores and Poliquin reserve Carbing for every fifth day, not always the best way!

DP


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## nikegurl (Apr 25, 2002)

thanks dp!

i don't lift on fri or mon.  i started this diet on mon so i figure today would be good carb up day (4 days in).  agree?

should i wait 'til next mon to carb up even if i don't lift on mondays?  if i do it monday instead of sunday would i then do it again on friday (4 days) even though friday is also not a lifting day?  if i pick 2 days in a week one time will be after 3 days and one will be after 4 days of depleting.  is that cool or just do it every 4 days no matter what days that turns out to be?

thanks again.  so it's cool to have 5 normal meals and then make carb up #6 and not have protein with that meal?


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## w8lifter (Apr 25, 2002)

OMG...I'm not even gonna bother trying to freaking decipher that, lol.....you're making it too difficult...just pic two days and eat!


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## nikegurl (Apr 25, 2002)

that's me - i overcomplicate everything.  thanks for bringing me down to earth!  lol.  i'm sucha freak


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## nikegurl (Apr 26, 2002)

ohmygawd that was a LOT of food.  it wasn't easy eating it all.  i thought i'd enjoy it.  wrong.

did i eat too much?
for my last meal i had a full cup of oatmeal - (measured before cooking), 8 oz yam, 4 oz banana, 1 Tbs peanut butter and I couldn't get the veggies in.  took me forever to get it down.

for the day my total calories ended up being 2167.  isn't that way too much?  i know i want to stimulate metabolism - but that number's really ok?

totals - 191 gram protein, 147 grams carb, 89 grams fat.

is that right?  do i need to adjust for next time?

it just worries me to see calories that high.  should i be cutting back earlier in the day at other meals so they stay a bit lower?

i weigh 135 now.

thanks


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## w8lifter (Apr 26, 2002)

It's perfect, that's what it's supposed to do, bump you up for a day....I can never get the veggies in either...and by the time I get to a carb up...I don't really wanna eat veggies anyway 

BTW....soon you will look forward to it and enjoy it!


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## nikegurl (Apr 26, 2002)

really?  i'm so calorie phobic.  my regular days are about 1700 calories.  before this i was eating about 1300 which i know is too low.  but since i did that anyway (knowing i shouldn't have) i wonder if 1700 or so daily and 2100 twice a week will make me fat. 

must keep the faith.....


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## nikegurl (Apr 26, 2002)

one more thing - are you suppossed to really feel something happen when you carb up?  i just felt full and my stomach felt sorta bloated.  that went away though.  i think that earlier in the day before i carbed up i was a little flatter - less veins.  they were back this morning.  that cracks me up - veins in my arms and shoulders and flab on my lower body still.  yuck

i'm still at about 17% bodyfat (don't really know) so that may be why i couldn't really see anything much.  or maybe it's too soon into the new eating plan.

just curious.


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## w8lifter (Apr 26, 2002)

Feel anything? .....full?!


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## w8lifter (Jun 19, 2002)

Bump for danilee


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## JUN LEE (Jun 19, 2002)

Hi, new guy with some questions.    

What is carb depletion for?  I read in the very first post that carbohydrates are needed for anaerobic training and if they go too low, training will suffer.  How low can you go with carbs when depleting?  Is there a number (for total carbs) that you should never go below?  

JL


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## cytrix (Jun 19, 2002)

I was just curious, was do you think about carbing up for a whole day or two once every week, as in the "Anabolic Diet" or "Metabolic Diet" by DiPasquale? I would like that better, as it would give more freedom one day a week, like on Saturday or Sunday, to go out to eat with friends? I don't know if he suggests only changing the percentages of the macronutrients fat, protein and carbs, or if the total calories are supposed to be increased on carb-up days, to keep thyroid levels up - I would think so.


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## w8lifter (Jun 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by JUN LEE *_
> Hi, new guy with some questions.
> 
> What is carb depletion for?  I read in the very first post that carbohydrates are needed for anaerobic training and if they go too low, training will suffer.  How low can you go with carbs when depleting?  Is there a number (for total carbs) that you should never go below?
> ...



Generally when you carb deplete you want to go as low as possible, under 30 active grams a day...and those should come only from protein/fat sources such as nuts. Depleting will increase your insulin sensitivity and once you carb up, glycogen synthesis increases. Training and fat loss will both suffer if you go to long w/o carbs, that is why we have bi-weekly carb-ups, to prevent thyroid down-regulation.


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## w8lifter (Jun 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by cytrix *_
> I was just curious, was do you think about carbing up for a whole day or two once every week, as in the "Anabolic Diet" or "Metabolic Diet" by DiPasquale? I would like that better, as it would give more freedom one day a week, like on Saturday or Sunday, to go out to eat with friends? I don't know if he suggests only changing the percentages of the macronutrients fat, protein and carbs, or if the total calories are supposed to be increased on carb-up days, to keep thyroid levels up - I would think so.



Well that would work, in terms of restoring glycogen levels, but carbing up for the entire day would delay fat burning considerably. And yes, you'd want a calorie increase on your carb up days.


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## cytrix (Jun 20, 2002)

Thanx w8. Do you think the carb-up approach of taking one whole day per week might be better in terms of increasing muscle size, even while cutting (at the expense of loosing fat a little slower as you already mentioned)? I know DiPasquale also uses this way of eating (low carb for 5-6- days, carb-up on the weekend)as a muscle building phase.


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## w8lifter (Jun 21, 2002)

If the main goal is still cutting, I think the original carbup in meal 6 twice a week would be best, it is still possible to gain muscle that way, however, if the main goal is maintenance, I think it would be alright. If the main goal is bulking I'd incorporate slow-burning carbs daily and skip depletion/carbups.


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## Robboe (Jun 21, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> _More Pain!_
> 
> The carb-up would be based on body weight, take the last meal only and use approx 1/4 measured before cooking of oatmeal for every 35 pounds of BW, 2 oz of yam per 35 pounds, and 1 oz of banana per 35, also one cup of veggies with 1 TBL butter (all BW's)!
> It's a lot of food, but works great!! Dr. Pain



Hey, quick couple O'questions:

Firstly, how did you arrive at these measurements - i 2 oz per 35lbs of BW etc...?

Secondly, this supposed to be all one meal right before bed, correct?

Gracias.


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## Dr. Pain (Jun 21, 2002)

I can answer....It was a conversion from a 175-200 pounds man's recomendation of 10 oz SP, 1 and 1/2 cups oats and a 6 oz Banana...veggies and fat were held constant!  We needed somethig workable for "other" BW's!


Doesn't have to be before bed....but empirically as the last meal....when activity levels are lower....and glycogen has been somewhat  previously depleted.....this works the best!


DP


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## Robboe (Jun 21, 2002)

Ah cool, thanks for the quick response.


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## LrdViperScrpion (Aug 16, 2002)

Is is alright to have fruit in your oatmeal?

And is it a 1/4 cup per 35 lbs. of bodyweight for all oatmeals?  Because the steel cut oats I used to buy had a LOT more calories in one cup than the Quaker old fashioned oats I have now.


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## LrdViperScrpion (Aug 16, 2002)

By fruit, I mean strawberries and/or blueberries, which as I understand it are very slow-burning?


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## Leslie (Aug 16, 2002)

No fruit in the oatmeal....I already tried that route


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## LrdViperScrpion (Aug 16, 2002)

Why is it that you can't add in a little extra fruit to the oatmeal, if you are already having a huge carb meal?


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## w8lifter (Aug 16, 2002)

A couple of strawberries in your carb up meal won't kill you LrdViperScrpion....and the calories are secondary to the carbs for this meal...we're more concerned w/ the type of carbs and how much of it, than we are w/ the actual calorie count.


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## Leslie (Aug 16, 2002)

I can't answer that one for you, I think it has something to do with the insulin spike....W8? DP?

I am eatting my carb up now and LOVING it


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## LrdViperScrpion (Aug 16, 2002)

Thanks for the responses, w8 and leslie, although I still don't understand what the problem is with the carbs in fruit, but thanks for the quick responses, and for helping me out.


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## LrdViperScrpion (Aug 16, 2002)

Oh, and no fair Leslie, I have to wait till Sunday for my carb-up.  I can't WAIT!


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## Dr. Pain (Aug 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by LrdViperScrpion *_
> Thanks for the responses, w8 and leslie, although I still don't understand what the problem is with the carbs in fruit, but thanks for the quick responses, and for helping me out.



In reference to the "carb-up" meal...as w8 said, a minute amount of fruit is not going to make much difference.  We are looking at your liver and muscles kind of like refueling a 2-3 stage rocket.  The different types of carbs in mixture, hit at slightly different rates, making refueling a smooth operation with no SPILLING! (or fat storage...... lipogenesis)


Butt certain fruit, and fructose in general has a negative impact on a cut.  You can get away with a grapefruit, berries, or an apple, BUTT AS THE ONLY PLANNED CARB SOURCE FOR THAT MEAL....never alone (always with protein and fat)... and not with  oatmeal, that is OVERKILL!

We always try to limit our regular carb servings (when planned) to under 30 total grams of C, and preferrably, under 25 active (minus fiber)

As BB, we have made 'Observations" concerning fruit and metabolism, smoothness, etc.  Consider this information "Tried and True" 

 Mama's Boy, if you're reading this...you made the same observations and wanted more info....the only person I have seen describe this is John Parrillo...he compared 300 grams of rice to 300 grams of fruit in his "paper-thin skinned athletes" and concluded that FRIUT WAS BAD....he then expounded on fructose and disacharrides or something...there may be info on his site?
(It was an article in his early newsletters years ago)


DP


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## LrdViperScrpion (Aug 17, 2002)

Alright, thanks for the info, DP, and I'll definitely cut the fruit from the oatmeal, and the carb up was the only meal I was eating with any fruit at all.


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## mama's boy (Aug 17, 2002)

> Mama's Boy, if you're reading this...you made the same observations and wanted more info....the only person I have seen describe this is John Parrillo...he compared 300 grams of rice to 300 grams of fruit in his "paper-thin skinned athletes" and concluded that FRIUT WAS BAD....he then expounded on fructose and disacharrides or something...there may be info on his site?
> (It was an article in his early newsletters years ago)



Right. Not just fruit but all forms of fructose are no good for muscle glycogen recomposition. In must be processed by the liver... this means it is several times more likely than other carbs to a) be burned metabolically and never reach muscle cells or b) be stored as fat once your liver stores are full. 

The spillage or "bad stage look" is actually a combination of things. The rice makes you "look better" because it causes a slight insulin spike, and when stored in the muscles pulls in water with it (unlike the fruit) causing a desirable tight and pumped look. The fruit, which is going straight to your liver... does none of this. Also, at 300 grams ANYONE will spill and some lipogenesis will occur. 

This is why fruit is bad for a "carb up" (aka. muscle glycogen recomposition, albeit smaller scale). Stick with whole food carbs sources that are void of fructose and sucrose and you'll be fine. Rice, potatoes, whole grains, etc. This rule alone is much more important than glycemic values, IMO. 

And don't get me wrong... I'm not saying fruit is inherently bad for you, just in large amounts. Obviously there are plenty of vitamins and minerals, phytonutrients, etc. 

BUT.... It's just the nature of the human metabolism. As BB or dieters we have to play tricks on this fickle beast. One super effective trick I've come up with is avoiding fruit and fructose as much as possible.


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## Dr. Pain (Aug 17, 2002)

Very very well said!  Kudos...the bar!

BTW...that was a w8 of 300 grams not 300 C


Just want to let you know.....that Mr. Grapefruit is pissed off at you! LOL 


DP


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## mama's boy (Aug 17, 2002)

> Just want to let you know.....that Mr. Grapefruit is pissed off at you! LOL



Bring it! I'll "section" his ass!


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## LrdViperScrpion (Aug 25, 2002)

I was also wondering, if you are doing the every 3rd, then 4th day carb-up, what would be the two best days for those carb-ups to fall on?  Right now I am doing a Mon, Wed, Fri, HST workout.  Also, if possible, the two best days to carb-up, excluding Friday, since I can at least go out and enjoy myself Friday night.  Thanks.


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## w8lifter (Aug 25, 2002)

Some people prefer to carb up the night before their heaviest w/o's...for added energy. And some people prefer to carb up the night of their heaviest w/o's...to aid in recovery.


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## Robboe (Aug 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> Some people prefer to carb up the night before their heaviest w/o's...for added energy. And some people prefer to carb up the night of their heaviest w/o's...to aid in recovery.



Wow, good answer.

But also, i know lads who arrange carb ups around training/nights out and others who arrange nights out/training around carb ups, which is kinda good cause it offers flexibility.

Do what you want, man.


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## w8lifter (Aug 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> 
> Wow, good answer.



Are you being sarcastic w/ me Chicken Baby?  LOL


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## Robboe (Aug 25, 2002)

Nah, i'm just pissed as fuck...

Sign into MSN and you'll see


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## LrdViperScrpion (Aug 28, 2002)

Ok, sorry I have another question, should I be eating more on the carb-up than I am?  I am following DPw8's guidelines, and have read some of the other posters say they are stuffed afterwards, but I am still almost STARVING after I carb-up.  Is there just something wrong with me?


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## w8lifter (Aug 28, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by LrdViperScrpion *_
> Ok, sorry I have another question, should I be eating more on the carb-up than I am?  I am following DPw8's guidelines, and have read some of the other posters say they are stuffed afterwards, but I am still almost STARVING after I carb-up.  Is there just something wrong with me?




What are you eating for your carb up exactly?


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## LrdViperScrpion (Aug 28, 2002)

I am eating 2 cups old-fashioned oatmeal, with a little bit of straweberries added in, an 8 oz. banana, a 12 oz. sweet potato, and a tablespoon of flax oil.  I also take 2g extra CLA beforehand.


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## w8lifter (Aug 28, 2002)

Add two cups of veggies as well


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## LrdViperScrpion (Aug 28, 2002)

Doh, riiiiiiiiiiight, I forgot about that one.


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## lina (Aug 29, 2002)

When I was doing the carb-ups on Mon/Thur I would also have a great workout the next day as mentioned before... 

Now my question is... 

Do cycling carbs like, no carb days, low carb days (2-3 days), high carb days (2 days/wk) more effective so that you have more energy on the other days as well and not just 2 days per week for the workouts? So let's say I would use my no carb days for my off days and then have at least 4/5 days of low/high carb days so I can have more energy to workout?


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## lina (Aug 29, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> _More Pain!_
> 
> The carb-up would be based on body weight, take the last meal only and use approx 1/4 measured before cooking of oatmeal for every 35 pounds of BW, 2 oz of yam per 35 pounds, and 1 oz of banana per 35, also one cup of veggies with 1 TBL butter (all BW's)!
> It's a lot of food, but works great!! Dr. Pain



Is this formula same for men and women? 

I was told (by Beverly) 1/2 cup oats, 4 oz. sweet potato, 4 oz. banana, 1 cup veggies, 1 tbs butter... based on 113 lbs... was I not getting enuf? If not, that would have been a ton of food!


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## Dr. Pain (Aug 29, 2002)

Lina, you'd have to "play" a bit to see what works for you.  You may just want to try one item at a time...say 3/4 cups of oatmal....etc.  Usually the next day after getting  "pumped", you know for sure!  

DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 6, 2003)

when you say deplete the carbs does that mean you dont any carbs at all throughout the day except for veggies???
and the forth day you eat carbs? (up to how many grams can you eat in your carb up days??) and how many grams of carbs can you eat on the deplete days?


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## P-funk (Jan 6, 2003)

It depends on what kind of diet you are doing.   Are you doing a ketogenic diet?


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## w8lifter (Jan 6, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> when you say deplete the carbs does that mean you dont any carbs at all throughout the day except for veggies???
> and the forth day you eat carbs? (up to how many grams can you eat in your carb up days??) and how many grams of carbs can you eat on the deplete days?




Basically, yes....3-4 days w/ minimal carbs (less than 40 g for the day) ...w/ carbs accumulating only from your protein/fat sources suchs as cheese, nuts and peanut butter. On the fourth day, in your 6th and final meal, you have a carb up. The rest of the 4th day's meals are low carb still. The carb up meal consists of:

_The carb-up would be based on body weight, take the last meal only and use approx 1/4 measured before cooking of oatmeal for every 35 pounds of BW, 2 oz of yam per 35 pounds, and 1 oz of banana per 35, also one cup of veggies with 1 TBL butter (all BW's)! 
It's a lot of food, but works great!! Dr. Pain _


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 6, 2003)

so if i eat enough fat in the morning before i workout, ill be fine and i dont need 100 grams of carbs a day to give me energy right?
another question: my trainer at the gym is trying to give me sessions (workout sessions ) five sessions with him that shows me workout tips , but i have to pay $300 for that. should i do it or just stay at my regular workout and your 80 grams of carb diet and high fat diet??


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 6, 2003)

whats a ketogenic diet?


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## w8lifter (Jan 6, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> so if i eat enough fat in the morning before i workout, ill be fine and i dont need 100 grams of carbs a day to give me energy right?
> another question: my trainer at the gym is trying to give me sessions (workout sessions ) five sessions with him that shows me workout tips , but i have to pay $300 for that. should i do it or just stay at my regular workout and your 80 grams of carb diet and high fat diet??




Well...that's something you need to ask yourself. We can help you w/ your training program here (if you want)...assuming you know "how to workout". If you're just new to the gym, and don't know proper form yet, buying a couple of sessions from a trainer might be a good idea. If you do that...make sure you explain to your trainer that you want him/her to show you different free weight exercises w/ proper form...and not just show you the machines.

A keto diet is a diet totally void of carbs...your goal is to enter and stay in ketosis. It is not necessary for fat loss and I would not suggest you do a keto at this point.


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 6, 2003)

his sessions can help me to a faster results, but i dont beilve his crap! ill just stay to my workout: mondays-off 
                                                    tuesdays- arms/abs (5 sets 12-                                                     15 reps)
                                                    wed- cardio/abs 1 hour
                                                     thurs- legs/calves/abs5 sets,12-15 reps
                                                     frid- chest/back/abs same sets and reps as above
                                                     sat-cardio/abs 1 hour
                                                     sunday- all body workout/ abs    (                                                    (3 sets of each, 12-15 reps


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## P-funk (Jan 6, 2003)

I would drop one of the cardio days, especially if you want to do a total body workout.  I consider a total body workout cardio by it self (ugh!!). lol


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 6, 2003)

dr. pain said i can do 2 times a week of cardio no more!!


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## P-funk (Jan 6, 2003)

I never said that you shouldn't do cardio twice a week.  I said I wouldn't but that is just me, I don't do any cardio.  Do what feels right to you.


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## w8lifter (Jan 6, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> dr. pain said i can do 2 times a week of cardio no more!!




Yes he did...and you can do them...but an hour of cardio is not good. Try 20-30 minutes instead. You could do a search for "closet cardio" using Dr. Pain's name


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 7, 2003)

so 3 times a week for 30 minutes of cardio is ook?


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 7, 2003)

and is it better to do it on an empty stomach? or just coffee??


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## sara (Mar 22, 2003)

all my questions might be lame for you guys, but im learning from all of you. when you stated earlier that the deplete days would only includes carbs from fat sources, (pb, cheese, eggs, meats) and you do that 3-4 days a week. what about the other 3 days of the week? (two with same deplete and you add meal #6 ? ) and the other day?


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## w8lifter (Mar 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by sara *_
> all my questions might be lame for you guys, but im learning from all of you. when you stated earlier that the deplete days would only includes carbs from fat sources, (pb, cheese, eggs, meats) and you do that 3-4 days a week. what about the other 3 days of the week? (two with same deplete and you add meal #6 ? ) and the other day?




It has nothing to do w/ "lame"...it has everything to do w/ answering your same questions over and over and you not listening.  We all answer questions from newbies still learning everyday...I have no problem answering what seem like "lame" questions, as long as I'm not wasting my time.

You do two carb ups a week...pick two days, like Sunday and Thursday, for your carb up days. So monday to thursday (till the 5th meal) you eat low carbs....under 30-40 grams for the entire day, then thursday night in meal 6, you carb up. Then Friday through Sunday @ meal 5 you eat low carb again, and carb up in meal 6 sunday night.


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## sara (Mar 22, 2003)

thanx.. thats for deplete. what does that do to you? 
ive been reading your journal and brit's journals and you guys are doing a different plan. can you explain the differnce


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## w8lifter (Mar 22, 2003)

The difference is because we are different...different size, different body type, different stage in our cut. 

The absence of carbs for several days will allow insulin levels to stabilize and remain low, allowing for maximum fat burning, it also increases insulin sensitivity (so your body responds better to carbs when you do your carb up). 

The carb up itself is important so your body doesn't get used to a low calorie level and slow your metabolism....you need to keep your metabolism high in order to shed excess bodyfat. The carb up will increase your calories for the day, and increase your metabolism.


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## sara (Mar 22, 2003)

than you


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## sara (Mar 22, 2003)

can you look at my journal and make comments on my meals?


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## sara (Mar 22, 2003)

opps!!!! i meant thanK you


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