# anybody else having an overly thermic experience from high protein intake?



## Determination (Jul 18, 2004)

was the subject subtle enough? heh

Anyway, I was wondering if anybody had digestive problems with a high protein diet (let's say 1.5-1.8 per body lb). 

Basically, I've been eating that much protein because any less and then I'm having too much trouble getting enough calories from clean carb sources and keeping the portion sizes small at the same time.

When I work, it's not a problem, I need the carbs and I don't keep it as clean (whole wheat bagel for example) because I'm extremely active all day. But during the week I do cardio, and lift weights. My activity levels outside of that are nothing out of the ordinary. So I worry about having 300g+ of carbs on days when I'm not as active (I'm around 160lbs, at 1.5g of protein per body lb, that's 240g of protein. I maintain at around 2800 so that's 34% of my calories from protein, 20% of fats would be 62g, and the remaining 46% from carbs equal to 322g carbs)

My body is simply not digesting that much protein so if I lower the amount of protein I have to increase carbs and fats to make up for it. It's already tough enough getting enough cals of carbs from clean carb sources and keeping portion sizes small...lowering my protein intake would mean I would have to start eating more processed foods...which would be completely counterproductive once I start getting on a caloric deficit again.

I have invested on digestive enzymes (thanks for the suggestion Jodi!) and i was wondering if anybody was having digestive problems with a high protein diet and had used them to see positive results (I bought 180caps from NOW foods). I'm also interested in other strategies that you might have implemented or if you don't have any personal experience and just know something I can try, please let me know. 

At first I thought my body needed to adjust but it's been over 2 months now I think, and it hasn't gotten any better. I've heard of protein farts, but this is ridiculous. I'm burning inside. And just in case, I drink at least 3 gallons of water per day and get tons of fiber in my diet. Sorry for the long post.


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## Premo55 (Jul 18, 2004)

I don't get your question at all.

Peace.


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## Determination (Jul 18, 2004)

Basically, I'm asking if anybody's had negative digestive experiences with high protein intakes and what they did to fix it...I hope I properly explained why decreasing protein intake for me was a problem. And if anybody had tried digestive enzymes and had positive results when concerning this.


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## Akateros (Jul 18, 2004)

I do. And yes, I have.

As for getting enough calories from clean carb sources, really? Oats (steelcut not flakes); beans (which of course have their own thermic problems); other whole grains -- those pile up the calories pretty quickly.

Digestive enzymes help me a bit, but aren't a cure-all. You might want to see if particular kinds of protein are more a culprit than others. (Try eating just one kind of protein -- eggs, chicken, whatever -- in a day to see.) For me, bison (of which unfortunately I am very fond) is the worst; I wanna kick _myself _ out to sleep on the couch on nights after I've been eating bison!


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## Determination (Jul 18, 2004)

oh I can get the calories, but then portion sizes are too big

oats are not a problem...but I'm not going to eat oats all day. It got to a point where I was eating it 3 times a day. 

Kidney beans are 110 cals per 1/2 cup only have 20g carbs. When combined with greens and a lean protein, the bean portion's almost too big to tell you the truth (kidney beans are big)

Even 2 cups of lentil soup only has 46g of carbs. I have to add a slice of whole wheat toast just to get enough carbs if I'm going to eliminate starchy carbs from my last meal of the day.

a serving of brown rice only has 32g of carbs.

At 322g of carbs per day, I'm needing 54g carbs per meal. Eliminating carbs from the last one means I need even more from the first 5. I try to pack the carbs early in the morning, I've gone 80g+ for breakfast.

I would have whey all day if it were up to picking the least digestive killer...ha.

Definitely going to start monitoring certain food combos and see what works best in this aspect, though...after those 2 cups of lentil soup with whole wheat bread and 4oz chicken...I'm dying hahaha


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## Jodi (Jul 18, 2004)

Sweet potatoes.  1/2 C at almost 30G carb.  I can easily eat 1.5 - 2C. of sweet potatoes mashed up with cinnamin, splenda and vanilla extract.  Takes like a dessert to me.


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## Determination (Jul 18, 2004)

yeah but I try to have fibrous veggies with my meals also, not just starchy carbs.

If I were to just have the sweet potato with a lean protein, I'd be fine...but add a serving of greens and the portion size is too big. Cut down on the sweet potato, let's say 6oz, and now I'm only getting 41g carbs...


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## Jodi (Jul 18, 2004)

Why in the world you bother counting veggies?  Its really a waste of time to count the carbs from the greens.  The only time I'd count veggies is if they were asparagus or eggplant, otherwise I don't even bother and even when I'm in competition dieting I still don't bother counting the veggies.


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## Determination (Jul 18, 2004)

Jodi said:
			
		

> Why in the world you bother counting veggies?  Its really a waste of time to count the carbs from the greens.  The only time I'd count veggies is if they were asparagus or eggplant, otherwise I don't even bother and even when I'm in competition dieting I still don't bother counting the veggies.



I wasn't

I was simply adding them to the PORTION size. Adding greens to the meal means that I can have as big a portion for starchy carbs, which means less carbs for the meal.


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## Jodi (Jul 18, 2004)

Why are you concerned about the portion sizes?  You should be concerned about the macros, not the portions.


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## Determination (Jul 18, 2004)

because as far as I know, to burn fat, you want to keep portion sizes small. One's not supposed to stuff oneself in one sitting. It's supposed to be small enough so that it's digested in 3 hours. Even if the macros are all right, if the portion size is too big, digestion will take too long.

Trust me, I've done the macro's only way I was getting plates STACKED with food. Should I simply not worry about it and just eat ridiculously full plates of food? 

If I were to go that rout I could simply have 2 cups of rice with my 4oz of chicken and cup of veggies. That would be a decent plate of food for someone eating 3 times a day...let alone 6.


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## Determination (Jul 18, 2004)

One thing to note is that I am refeeding after a long period of having my calories set too low...so I guess my stomach is still stretching back to normal size. i've been eating big for over a week now, and I'm still getting full after SOME meals...

1 full cup of rice, with 1 cup of veggies and 4oz chicken...that's a packed plate with food...should I just stop caring and eat until my stomach is fine with eating that much again?


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## Premo55 (Jul 18, 2004)

I still have no idea what you're talking about.
Why don't you just raise your fats and take your carbs down if you're so concerned? And if you're burning the carbs anyway, why don't you just space them out into more meals instead of stuffing them into three? Also, why can't you eat more meals per day, say 7 or 8, instead of just 6?

If you maintain on those calories, I don't think it really matters what kind of portion size you're dealing with. Also, are you sure that 4 ounces of chicken 6 times a day= 240g protein?

I kinda feel you on the digestion thing though, not just aobut protein but things in general. I bloat with everything I eat, and it gets pretty terrible post-high carb day, hell, it gets bad on high carb day when I have to try and squeeze veggies in with my 2.5xbw carb intake.

Peace.


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## Jodi (Jul 18, 2004)

Portion size doesnt mean jack shit.  Its the macros that matter, not the portions.


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## Determination (Jul 18, 2004)

premo is today a low carb day? when did I say I eat 4oz chicken 6 times a day? increasing fats would take the macro% easily past 20%...I'm cool with 25%, anything higher than that and I'm fretting

and right now I'm actually doing my meals for tomorrow and I made my pws smaller, so I can have a meal 1 hour after it and fit 6 meals in besides the pws. I'm going to try eating 8oz of sweet potatoes with chicken and veggies plus a Tblsp of udo's and see how I'm able to bring that down...lol

and I'm still watching portion sizes because if I start stuffing myself then it will make my digestive problems even worse and then my body's not even utilizing what I'm eating, I'm walking around even more bloated and gassy and then who knows if I'll be able to eat 3 hours later...


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## Determination (Jul 18, 2004)

Jodi said:
			
		

> Portion size doesnt mean jack shit.  Its the macros that matter, not the portions.



so it doesn't matter if the portion is so big that you're stuffing yourself at each sitting?

That goes against everything that I've read...


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## Jodi (Jul 18, 2004)

How so?  If you are within macros then why does it matter?


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## Determination (Jul 18, 2004)

stuffing oneself leads to inefficient digestion which first of all leads to more bloating and gas, but that's another story

inefficient digestion means inefficient distribution of nutrients...if one stuffs oneself, then the food's more than likely going to be turned into fat once all other nutrient pathways are used up. There are only so many as far as I know. If there is an overload, the body will simply not use it and store it as fat.

Thus not boosting metabolism nearly as much, if at all and making you fatter.

This is exactly why we redistribute meals over 5-6 smaller ones throghout the day. Keep nutrient distribution at its optimal rate with a steady flow of nutrients once food is already digested, and boosting our metabolism in the process.

If you were to stuff yourself 6 times a day, you'd only get fatter (and if not, you'd definitely not be losing any weight), even if the macros are on point. I very much doubt you could stuff yourself 6 times in one day in the first place. if you can, then you got problems, lol

Or maybe I just learned completely wrong?


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## Premo55 (Jul 18, 2004)

Okay look.
There are guys eating MUCH more than you are on this site right now, there are definitely cats who are 160-170 pounds on this site who are on a bulk and eating 3200+ calories. You don't seem them blowing up and gaining fat on a daily basis. If you can't get 2800 down without fretting, and you MAINTAIN at that weight, I imagine you bulk at 4000. How do you think you're going to manage that?

I think you are way too paranoid about getting fat. You get fat from poor food choices and being inactive. As long as you're training, eating clean and sticking to macro counts that you KNOW you maintain weight at, what are you so worried about? When I'm on a bulk I'm bloated all day, this doesn't mean that I'm getting fat. If you're so worried about it then split your 6 meals into 7 or 8 spread out every 2 hours.

Also, what kind of diet were you previously on? 
I'm on a no carb day today...why do you ask?

If you know that you can stomach a certain serving of carbs before adding green veggies, and you know that green veggies have basically no cals in them, what's wrong with ingesting that serving of carbs with the veggies? It makes no sense when you say that 'stuffing yourself' in that sense would make you fat.

Peace.


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## Determination (Jul 18, 2004)

I wasn't saying you necessarily get fat, though if you take it overboard you could gain and extra amount of unwanted fat...in fact this happens all the time as far as I know

but if you're on a caloric deficit to try to lose weight, and you stuff yourself at every meal, you won't lose weight, even if you're doing everything right, including macro's

I'm not talking about bulking here...that's a different animal. 

Obviously I'm not overly concerned right now that I'm maintaining, in fact I'm enjoying it (besides the digestive problems of course). 

But I'm still keeping mind of portion sizes. Specially because my energy levels have leveled off, and I might be ready to go back on a deficit soon. Plus stuffing myself when I already have digestive problems is completely stupid.


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## Jodi (Jul 18, 2004)

> but if you're on a caloric deficit to try to lose weight, and you stuff yourself at every meal, you won't lose weight, even if you're doing everything right, including macro's


WRONG!!!!  This is so wrong.  

I think you better keep reading more.  No offense but you are taking things the wrong way here.

It's all about the macros.  As long as you are in a caloric defecit and you stay within macros then, I will say this again, portions don't mean jack shit!!


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## Determination (Jul 18, 2004)

from chris aceto, to tom venuto, to even dude from body from life and you know, the fountain of knowledge that are bodybuilding websites

would all disagree with you

every single thing I've read on the subject speaks of moderate portion sizes when trying to lose weight. So you're going to have to point to me to a book that says you can eat as much as you want per sitting and still lose weight as long as the macro's are right, because everything I've read says exactly the opposite


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## Jodi (Jul 18, 2004)

First of show me where they say that.  I want quotes.

If you have 40G of Protein, 60G of carbs and 10G of fat in one meal.  So that's 4.5 oz. of chicken, 1 C. Sweet Potato and veggies and maybe a few fish oil caps.  Then you have the same 40G P, 60G C & 5 Fat so this meal is 2 scoops of protein, except this meal 2 Scoops of whey and 1 Whole grain bagel.  Obviously this 2nd meal is smaller in portion size.  But what you are saying is that if I ate the first option for 5 or 6 meals I'm going to get fat because the portion size is bigger?  

You are so far off from understanding this if you really think that.  The amount of food going into your stomach doesn't matter, its the type of food and its caloric value that matters.


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## Premo55 (Jul 18, 2004)

Uh, if you're in a caloric deficit and eating 6 quality meals a day, I don't see why you WOULDN'T lose weight. You seem to be suggesting that everyone should throw calories and macros out the window and just go with how much they 'feel' like eating. Don't feel full or bloated? Then you're on the right track!

Peace.


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## Determination (Jul 18, 2004)

Jodi said:
			
		

> First of show me where they say that.  I want quotes..



Damn, it's ALL over the books. The body for life thing is basically centered around portions only, it doesn't even take into account macro nutrients (which is great for beginners, but it's obviously not the best if you want optimal results)

Chris Aceto, you can google it up, it's online

It's all over Tom Venuto's book as well. He specifically says you can do everything right, but if your portion sizes are TOO big you won't get results. Or course that usually means you're eating too many calories, but he also mentions you should never stuff yourself in one sitting.



> But what you are saying is that if I ate the first option for 5 or 6 meals I'm going to get fat because the portion size is bigger?



uhh...no

there's a difference between a bigger meal that is still small and a meal that is TOO BIG...one that STUFFS you. How have I not made this distinction clear, I don't know.

You even asked about why the portion sizes matter, I explained it and you had absolutely no reply to it. Now you're asking ME to give you direct quotes. 

How about you do something for me and just give me a source, I don't want a quote, just anything anywhere that says you can stuff yourself at every sitting and if the macro's are still right you will still lose weight.

I mean, even if the portion size is already the right size, by eating it too fast you could stuff yourself when you normally wouldn't if you took your time with it.

Do this all the time with every meal, and if you're still losing weight...then I'm a moron


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## Jodi (Jul 18, 2004)

Premo55 said:
			
		

> Uh, if you're in a caloric deficit and eating 6 quality meals a day, I don't see why you WOULDN'T lose weight. You seem to be suggesting that everyone should throw calories and macros out the window and just go with how much they 'feel' like eating. Don't feel full or bloated? Then you're on the right track!
> 
> Peace.


I don't know about you Premo but I give up.  Let him think what he wants. 

We have no clue what we are talking about doncha know.  That's why we can diet so low in bodyfat to compete or bulk to put on 10lbs of muscle in one bulk season.  I must have no clue what I'm talking about


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## Determination (Jul 18, 2004)

first of all I never even hinted at throwing macro's and calories out the window

second, you ask me a question, I answer it, you ignore that answer and then pose a question assuming I said something I never did just to make me look dumb.

Then I ask you one question and you ignore it. Then you ask me for direct quotes to something else I said.

Then you post something that implies I've been trying to say you don't know what you're talking about, when I have done nothing of the sort (in fact I've made it perfectly clear you're very knowledgable in another topic...which means nothing because it's obvious)

I simply asked you for one source that discredits everything that I've read (or misread)...if you want to take that as me saying you don't know anything about bodybuilding, then go ahead

it's time to sleep anyway...I'll keep changing my diet and see how I respond to it. That's what I was going to do in the first place, but I figured I might get a little extra help here. Oh well.


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## Jodi (Jul 18, 2004)

I don't know where you see I was ignoring you.  Maybe I missed something but I certainly was never ignoring your comments.  

There will be no book saying its ok to stuff yourself because it there isn't one and its not ok to stuff yourself because if you are stuffing yourself then you are out of your marcro intake.  This is where you are missing the point and I'm not trying to make you sound or look dumb.  You are making this so much more complicated than it is.  Its quite simple and I will say it again.  If you eat within caloric range it doesn't matter what size the portion is.  

We have been trying to help you but again you are taking this too far.

My maintenance is 1700 cals.  If I eat 1700 cals in one sitting and I eat nothing else for the rest of the day I am not going to gain weight.  The most that will happen is that over time my metabolism will slow down.


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## Premo55 (Jul 18, 2004)

Dude,
Just look at the carb cycling diet. People have gotten down to single digit body fat percentages stuffing themselves two to three times a week. Same thing goes for people who go on cyclical keto diets and have overfeeds every 4 or 5 days. How would you explain that? These diets don't go on daily caloric intake, but cumulative weekly ones. I agree that it is generally a very good idea to space all your macros in your caloric allowance evenly throughout the day but to suggest that portion control alone dictates your success in a diet plan is a bit idiotic, don't you think?

Also, Body For Life is retarded. They also suggest that you can have a cheat day where you can eat whatever you want.

Peace.


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## RoeCyris (Jul 18, 2004)

in response to original question (cuz i didn't read the rest of the posts):

Hells yea. I'm not sure if it's the whey or just the fact that I'm getting so much more protien now. I recently realized that before i started using whey in my meals and eating better I wasn't getting even half the protien i needed a day, however my body was use to this, so when I introduced the whey/extra protien in my diet I got the runs real bad (this was earlier this week, hah, ima noob) but it calmed after a few days. My feces stinks to high heaven nowl but at leasts its coming at a regular rate these days.

Was anything I just shared too much?


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## Jenny (Jul 18, 2004)

thank's for giving me a great laugh on a Monday morning  I'm sorry determination, but you are too funny 
The reason why people are talking about portion sizes in books is because it's the EASY way to regulate your food intake if you don't want to count calories and macros. This is prefered for beginners, not the other way around  Do you know what macros are? Macronutrients, where you calculate the percentages of protein, carbs and fat  What matters to your body is the cals it gets, not how much it is on your plate or how full you get. Some foods will make you feel more full than others without adding calories, since they're not calorie dense. You can actually burn more fat and raise your metabolic rate from foods that are harder to digest, since the body has to work harder to benefit from the nutrients. In Jodi's example the shake and carbs won't be hard for the body to digest, but the whole food meal will. 
So, don't worry about how full you get from a meal, find out what it contains and how many cals you're getting from it. www.fitday.com is a good place to get your macros and cals figured out 

Good luck


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## Jenny (Jul 18, 2004)

Determination said:
			
		

> Damn, it's ALL over the books. The body for life thing is basically centered around portions only, it doesn't even take into account macro nutrients (which is great for beginners, but it's obviously not the best if you want optimal results)
> 
> Chris Aceto, you can google it up, it's online
> 
> ...


I think this is my favorite post 
Determination, I understand you are quite new to the board  Jodi is our diet guru and she has more knowledge than 10 of us together. She's competed and been in top notch shape and helped others do the same 
Trust her on this


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## Akateros (Jul 19, 2004)

I am sensing a certain amount of psychological resistance here. Determination "feels" fat when full, is the problem, I'd wager.

I think Premo might've been on the right track, here. You probably do not have to worry quite so much about keeping ALL your carbs to your first couple meals. Spread 'em out. Leave your last meal carb-free. I'm suspecting you're (honestly) still at a slight deficit anyway, and even if you aren't, if you've hit your maintenance right, you will be _quite fine,_ and less oofy.


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## P-funk (Jul 19, 2004)

> Digestive enzymes help me a bit, but aren't a cure-all



what digestive enzymes do you use?


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## Akateros (Jul 19, 2004)

I've tried plain Bromelain, the Udo's brand, and another brand I can't remember (blue and yellow label) which comes in different formulations (protein, fat & carb digestion I think -- obviously, I've got the protein one). The Udo's seemed to work best, but are godawful expensive.


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## P-funk (Jul 19, 2004)

Akateros said:
			
		

> I've tried plain Bromelain, the Udo's brand, and another brand I can't remember (blue and yellow label) which comes in different formulations (protein, fat & carb digestion I think -- obviously, I've got the protein one). The Udo's seemed to work best, but are godawful expensive.




thanks


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## Akateros (Jul 19, 2004)

Oh yeah -- taking probiotics (lactobacillus supps) seems to help as well. I get the plain powder and mix it in my protein shakes. Purchase only from a store that keeps them refrigerated, otherwise you're buying a jar of dead bacteria. (Now _that_ sounds appetizing.)


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## Jodi (Jul 19, 2004)

Jenny said:
			
		

> I think this is my favorite post
> Determination, I understand you are quite new to the board  Jodi is our diet guru and she has more knowledge than 10 of us together. She's competed and been in top notch shape and helped others do the same
> Trust her on this


  OMG Jenny, thanks sweetie but I wouldn't go that far.  I try to help people as much as I can and learn from my experiences and others but that's the extent of it. 



			
				Akateros said:
			
		

> I am sensing a certain amount of psychological resistance here. Determination "feels" fat when full, is the problem, I'd wager.
> 
> I think Premo might've been on the right track, here. You probably do not have to worry quite so much about keeping ALL your carbs to your first couple meals. Spread 'em out. Leave your last meal carb-free. I'm suspecting you're (honestly) still at a slight deficit anyway, and even if you aren't, if you've hit your maintenance right, you will be quite fine, and less oofy.


I agree.  

oofy 

You seem to understand what he was saying better than I did.  Then again you are always one of the most level headed person in this threads.

As far as digestive enzymes, make sure you get one that breaksdown all carbs including lactose, fats and proteins.  They are expensive but they do help alot.


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## P-funk (Jul 19, 2004)

> As far as digestive enzymes, make sure you get one that breaksdown all carbs including lactose, fats and proteins.



Any recomendations sweet thang?


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## Paynne (Jul 19, 2004)

> One thing to note is that I am refeeding after a long period of having my calories set too low


You're feeling full because your diet recently changed.  When I go from cutting to bulking I feel positively STUFFED on moderate cals until I get used to the diet change. After about 2 weeks I'm ravenously hungry and start moving cals up again.


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## Jodi (Jul 19, 2004)

P-funk said:
			
		

> Any recomendations sweet thang?


Anything for you my dear 

NOW Foods makes 2 good ones that are decently priced.  They are called Super Enzymes or Plant Enzymes.  I haven't tried the Super Enzymes yet but I use the Plant Enzymes.


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## patbuck (Jul 20, 2004)

Jodi said:
			
		

> Why in the world you bother counting veggies?  Its really a waste of time to count the carbs from the greens.  The only time I'd count veggies is if they were asparagus or eggplant, otherwise I don't even bother and even when I'm in competition dieting I still don't bother counting the veggies.



You don't count the carb from the veggies?? why?
It's too minimal? Is that mean you eat has much has you want all the time?


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## Jodi (Jul 20, 2004)

Well, with celery and cucumber I tend to eat as much as I want.  Veggies I don't even measure, I just get a big bowl full and eat em'.


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## patbuck (Jul 20, 2004)

I'm asking that because between my meal sometimes I'm ungry.
And I always wait to get to the meal to eat, but your saying I could eat veggies all the time and it would not affect the out come of my diet event on cutting?


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## Jodi (Jul 20, 2004)

No, I didn't say eat veggies all the time.  I don't snack.  I mean with your meal there is no reason to count them.


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## LAM (Jul 20, 2004)

most people do not count the carbs from veggies.  it just takes way to much of them to have any effect on weight gain or weight loss.  they are consumed for the vitamins and minerals not for the carb content.  

for example say you eat 3 cups of broccoli a day which is 12 grams of carbs while 1/2 of those carbs are fiber so technically there are only 6 grams of carbs.  6 grams of carbs or 24 calories is not going to have any effect on your diet


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## Determination (Jul 20, 2004)

Paynne said:
			
		

> You're feeling full because your diet recently changed.  When I go from cutting to bulking I feel positively STUFFED on moderate cals until I get used to the diet change. After about 2 weeks I'm ravenously hungry and start moving cals up again.



That's exactly what it was and I thought of it once I was done babbling in this thread

Thus realizing I was wrong about the portion size thing, and the only reason they brought it up is so that beginners could pick up the smaller meal thing easier. 

That doesn't mean you have to ask me if I know what macro's are  , come on, if anything you could blame me of doing too much number crunching (I used to count every single thing, including veggies). 

Before destroying my metabolism, I went from 205 to 155 in less than 8 months...I'm still 155 according to this morning's measurements. While I might not be nowhere near as knowledgable as Jodi per se, I still know a little bit. I just got confused on the portion thing.

I've been refeeding for over a week, though...and I'm able to eat much more and truly I don't think I maintain at 2800 anymore, it's definitely higher cause the last couple of days I haven't been as energetic (though I have started doing cardio, and that might have something to do with that). So I guess my metabolism's reving again.

I also just got my digestive enzymes today. I ordered them from bulk nutrition. Now's Super Enzymes. I had one cap with my 5pm meal, I'll let you guys know how they work since there are others that have similar problems.

I've read killing your thyroid also causes digestive problems, though...and while my bowel movements have been better since I've been refeeding, things still don't feel quite right, and they never truly have ever since I started eating 6 meals/day.

And just for you Jodi, my last meal was a stacked plate of food...macro's were right but I still got pretty full from the meal. Not stuffed, though cause my stomach kinda stretched back to normal now. And I enjoyed the hell out of it


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## Determination (Jul 20, 2004)

LAM said:
			
		

> for example say you eat 3 cups of broccoli a day which is 12 grams of carbs while 1/2 of those carbs are fiber so technically there are only 6 grams of carbs.  6 grams of carbs or 24 calories is not going to have any effect on your diet



aren't the calories burned in digestion anyway? And in some cases like romaine lettuce, the calories burned to digest it are actually more than it packs?

If you eat plenty of veggies, let's say 300-400 cals worth, you might actually be getting a lot less calories than you think you are at the end of the day (that of course relative to how many calories you're eating/day)

broccoli and asparagus do pack some protein, though


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## Premo55 (Jul 20, 2004)

Could you detail what kind of diet you were on that destroyed your thyroid and caused you to lose weight so rapidly? Also, if you were losing too fast and feeling like crap, why on earth did you continue for 8 months?

Peace.


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## Determination (Jul 20, 2004)

lol no, I was fine for say...the first...6. In fact, I lost 35 pounds before I even started eating 6 times a day and counting calories, etc. I've always had a pretty fast metabolism...last summer I was in arizona and my brother bought a bowflex and I just got into doing that and I ate what I would now consider utter crap, sugary cereals, processed chicken, drinking alcohol...I hadn't even noticed I had lost weight until my brother pointed it out. I got on the scale and couldn't believe it.

I was fine then, I didn't have any digestion problems, at least. The reasons why I started the whole eating 6 times a day and working out all the time thing are many and I won't go into that, but I haven't been doing it for that long...3 month tops

I started that at 165...I lost 10 pounds in a month and half, then fat loss stopped, and then I lowered cals even more even though that goes against everything I had read. Then instead of eating more I tried going low carb while lowering calories even more, making things worse. Bye Bye thyroid, peace out metabolism.  I experimented for a little less than a month and half until I figured out what i was doing and got back on track.

Granted it took me awfuly fucking long to figure out I just wasn't eating enough. All I did was go back to the books that got me into things in the first place.

What's cool is that after all of this, while I'm still the same weight I got stuck at...I am noticeably leaner and certain muscles have grown.

So I learned the hard way, even though I didn't need to since I had all the answers right in front of me...but hey you live and you learn

Edit: oh also, now I've figured out that my problem once I started eating 6 times a day and counting calories was that I very much underestimated my activity levels. I was ridiculously active at the time, my job beat up my body pretty good, let alone the workouts...I had multiplied my BMR by 1.55...when I could have easily gone to 1.9, at the very least 1.7...dropping calories further just killed it


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