# Is it bad to workout/train before you go to bed??



## I'm Trying (Apr 23, 2004)

I'm debating if I should work out before I go to bed. I work graveyard and my workout area is my garage. If I workout when I wake up (about 4pm) the sun is beating on my garage door and it gets hotter then hell in there. If anyone has some helpful knowledge I'd appriciate it!!

Thanks!!


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## Phred (Apr 23, 2004)

Working out before going to bed has worked for me.  I w/o about an hour before going to bed.  I just seem to have more focus and energy at the end of the day for a w/o.  On the weekends I end up w/o earlier in the day (some times in the morning) and I just do not seem to have quite the same level of intensity.  It would be interesting to know if there have been any studies on rest periods after w/o.  Some folks get amped up after a w/o.  For me, after a good w/o,  I am drained and just want to relax/sleep.


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## LAM (Apr 23, 2004)

IMO...it is the worst time to train. not only can it mess up your sleep but high-intensity resistance training is extremely catabolic.  so you train get in one meal then your body goes catabolic for 6-10 hours depending on how long you sleep...doesn't seem like the optimum program to me


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## elitist (Apr 23, 2004)

damn...I gotta jump in here....LAM just about summed the shit up...I mean.....are you fucking kidding me?  I wouldnt be surprised if you were actually slowly shrinking from that regimen. I say train as early as you can....this way you get 6+ post-workout meals into your system...meals in the hours directly following a thorough thrashing to your muscles = growth. Simple man.


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## I'm Trying (Apr 23, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by elitist *_
> damn...I gotta jump in here....LAM just about summed the shit up...I mean.....are you fucking kidding me?  I wouldnt be surprised if you were actually slowly shrinking from that regimen. I say train as early as you can....this way you get 6+ post-workout meals into your system...meals in the hours directly following a thorough thrashing to your muscles = growth. Simple man.



I haven't started this, I was pondering. Thus why I posted the question. I figured what Lam was correct anyways.
Thanks!!


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## LAM (Apr 23, 2004)

don't get me wrong training at night is 100x better than not training at all but because of the reasons that I stated it is less than optimum to do that.


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## tucker01 (Apr 23, 2004)

Dammit now you got me second guessing, and ditching the late night workout. 

It is just so convenient


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## Phred (Apr 23, 2004)

Well all I can say is it is working for me.  Maybe if I w/o earlier I would be gaining more.  Is it the most optimum, I do not know.   Have there been any studies to support the best time to w/o?

I have only been monitoring my body fat for a few months now.  But I started at around 26% BF and 202 lbs.  Last readings - 23% BF and 207 lbs.  The math suggests I have gained 10 lbs of muscle and lost  5 lbs of fat in three months.


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## elitist (Apr 23, 2004)

hey man...good for you....but just think....what your gains would be like if you got in 6 quality meals after your workout when they are most important?


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## CowPimp (Apr 23, 2004)

I workout late too, but I always try to eat as much as possible right after.  I aim for 100 grams of protein in addition to some fat and carbs right after a workout.  Before I goto sleep I eat some more too.


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## Saturday Fever (Apr 23, 2004)

85% of your testosterone is produced when you're sleeping with a large spike in the hour or so before you wake. (Morning wood unmasked!) So the real problem with the idea is that your body won't be well-fueled for that test boom.


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## Monolith (Apr 23, 2004)

Weight training will put you in an anabolic, not a catabolic state.  I'm assuming he's still going to have a post w/o shake.  Besides, natural cortisol levels are at their lowest point in the evening.  And then hopping right into bed would be beautiful, 8 hours of sleep right after lifting.  I also dont see how working out in step with higher morning test levels helps anything... if it did, you'd see guys on juice stickin' themselves right before they hit the gym.

IMO, if you worked out in the evening, you could down 50g of whey post w/o, then 30 mins later down 50g of casein or some sort of slow digesting protein (right before hittin the sack).

Personally, i hate lifting in the morning.  I like to get at least 2 meals in me before i get to the gym.  For about 3 months i was going before classes at like 6 am, and i just wasnt feelin it.  It was nice having a deserted gym to myself, though.


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## LAM (Apr 23, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Monolith *_
> Weight training will put you in an anabolic, not a catabolic state.



somebody needs to do a lot more READING and less posting...


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## Saturday Fever (Apr 23, 2004)

Well, given that 85% of the hormones you produce are produced while you sleep, I'd say Mono doesn't have a bad argument.


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## Arnold (Apr 23, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Monolith *_
> Weight training will put you in an anabolic, not a catabolic state.





weight training puts the body in a catabolic state, after training anabolism will follow to rebuild the damage done from training.


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## Saturday Fever (Apr 23, 2004)

Muscle is built via hormones. Hormones are produced mostly while you sleep. So is it more beneficial to workout right before your body does it's best production, or hours before? I think that should be the question.


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## LAM (Apr 23, 2004)

as you have already stated free test is at it's highest in the early am.  as the day progresses that test will bind to SHBG.  by the end of the day there will be not much free T that is unbound...so from a biological perspective earlier is better...


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## Saturday Fever (Apr 23, 2004)

Unless the free test was in excess when your body wanted it most...


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## Saturday Fever (Apr 23, 2004)

This is a decent article on hormones and steroids as well, but the general information is good nonetheless.



> Testosterone is made in the testis and released into the bloodstream. A good portion of this testosterone is bound up by SHBG leaving free testosterone levels very low (only about 10% of that released into the bloodstream). Testosterone is a very small molecule that is largely lipid soluble, but has a charged polar group or two slapped on one end. This allows it to diffuse freely across the lipid membranes of your cells. Once in the cytosol, the test binds to androgen receptors that are just kinda floatin around. Once bound to the receptor, the test-receptor complex is transported from the cytosol into the nucleus. THis is where the magic begins. Gene expression/protein synthesis are initiated and the cell produces more protein. Glycogen and nutrient uptake are greatly increased to accomodate the increase in protein production. This means that your insulin sensitivity goes way up, as well as your appetite. Your sleep requirement will also increase.
> 
> The hypothalamus reacts to this increase in testosterone by decreasing Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) secretion. GnRH stimulates production of lutenizing hormone (LH) which is responsible for testosterone production in males (estrogen in females), and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) is responsible for stimulating spermatogenesis in males (ovulation in females). A good portion of your GnRH and subsequently testosterone (85% or more) is produced while you sleep, with test levels spiking shortly before you wake up. This partially explains mornin wood. (You can take advantage of this if you use test suspension or dbol, as both have a very short halflife. Take a 5-10 mg of dbol in the morning upon waking and it should be out of your system by nightfall. This means that most GnRH production will continue as usual. During the day, that small 15% or so is replaced by dbol or suspension which, and you're still comin off the test spike produced early in the morning upon waking... so you've high androgen levels both day and night). Anyway, the decrease in GnRH is followed subsequently by testicular atrophy. This is the #1 reason that people lose weight following a cycle. The HPTA will be up and runnin well enough to maintain your muscle mass with no trouble, it's the testis that take forever to rebuild (which in itself causes problems with the HPTA). If you use HCG shortly before coming off, or very small doses concurrently with your cycle, the testicular atrophy will be repaired or negated completely post cycle. This lets hormone levels come back to normal rather quickly post cycle. The exception here is with nandrolone wich desensitizes the leydig cells to LH/FSH and even if the HPTA were to be back to normal... they just don't produce test like they should. This is why test levels can take the better part of a year to return to their normal range following a cycle with nandrolone in it.
> 
> ...


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## Monolith (Apr 23, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> 
> 
> weight training puts the body in a catabolic state, after training anabolism will follow to rebuild the damage done from training.



I guess what i was trying to say, is that weight training is an inherently anabolic activity, ignoring the specifics of when the body reaches that anabolic state.


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## LAM (Apr 23, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Monolith *_
> I guess what i was trying to say, is that weight training is an inherently anabolic activity, ignoring the specifics of when the body reaches that anabolic state.



anabolism ONLY occurs if there is sufficient nutrient intake.  the body must RECOVER before it can BUILD...

an 6-10 hour fast directly after training most certainly is not  optimum for recovery...


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## Monolith (Apr 23, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by LAM *_
> anabolism ONLY occurs if there is sufficient nutrient intake.  the body must RECOVER before it can BUILD...
> 
> an 6-10 hour fast directly after training most certainly is not  optimum for recovery...



Right, this is because of the spike in cortisol when you train.  In the evenings, cortisol is at its lowest daily value already.  And as long as he has an adequate post w/o shake, followed up by some sort of casein before bed - like i already said - than there's no reason for him not to lift in the evening.

Regardless, whether he lifts in the morning or the evening, i can't see it making any kind of legitimate difference.


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## LAM (Apr 23, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Monolith *_
> Right, this is because of the spike in cortisol when you train.  In the evenings, cortisol is at its lowest daily value already.  And as long as he has an adequate post w/o shake, followed up by some sort of casein before bed - like i already said - than there's no reason for him not to lift in the evening.
> 
> Regardless, whether he lifts in the morning or the evening, i can't see it making any kind of legitimate difference.



If you read the original post you will see he asks if it was OK to train directly before bed.   sure it is ok but far from optimum


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## Monolith (Apr 23, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by LAM *_
> If you read the original post you will see he asks if it was OK to train directly before bed.   sure it is ok but far from optimum



Actually... i just realized.  He says he doesnt want to workout in the afternoon because its hot in the garage.

IT, why not just open the friggin garage door?


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## elitist (Apr 23, 2004)

Look, bottom line, if you work out on the late night, all the hormone release in the world aint gonna do ya justice when your fasting......food is more anabolic/anti-catabolic than any growth factors circulating thru your bloodstream while you snooze for 8+ hours at night on an empty stomach. The choice is plain to see.


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## Monolith (Apr 23, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by elitist *_
> Look, bottom line, if you work out on the late night, all the hormone release in the world aint gonna do ya justice when your fasting......food is more anabolic/anti-catabolic than any growth factors circulating thru your bloodstream while you snooze for 8+ hours at night on an empty stomach. The choice is plain to see.



You understand what casein is, right?

And if sleep was so incredibly awful for anabolism, then you'd have everyone waking up every three hours to eat.


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## elitist (Apr 23, 2004)

wow...slow your roll chicano....last time i checked, yes i do know what casein is...FOOD...I also know that casein will NOT be in your circulating amino acid pool after a few hours....secondly, I dont remember saying sleep was awful for anabolism...show me that quote......thirdly, sleep is great for anabolism, but you are CATABOLIC after you train...a point you seem to be confused about.....sleep is hardly beneficial directly after training when you can only get one meal in, and then knock out for 8 hours...THAT is awful....what is not awful is feeding the depleted muscles every few hours for multiple meals in that direly important high catabolic zone your body goes into the hours directly following your session.......

keep wishing for that lobotomy...maybe we can start a pool here on the boards and one for you....I can see that its highly needed.


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## Monolith (Apr 23, 2004)




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## benfica (Apr 23, 2004)

How about a few houes before?
maybe 2-3 hours.
is that ok?


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## LAM (Apr 23, 2004)

at the bare minimum you would want enough time to have you PWO shake then another meal before bed...

obviously for new resistance trainers this (training right before bed) will not be as much as a factor as when you are a Vet when gains are MUCH harder to come by...


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## bangaho (Apr 23, 2004)

i often work out and hop straight into bedat like 11pm-3am, but i have a big arse meal right before i work out and protein shake..seems to work ok for me, i sleep most weekday evening/afternoons 3 - 8 (im v lazy)


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## senimoni (Apr 23, 2004)

Is this more or less of a factor if one is cutting as opposed to bulking?


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## M.J.H. (Apr 23, 2004)

I am confused SF, what side of the debate are you taking? That training close to bedtime is a good idea, or is not?


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## THEMYTH (Apr 24, 2004)

I have to work from 4:30pm to 3am and the only time to work out is after work in the morning. Seems to work for me but i make sure that i have a shake after the w/o.

But if you eat all day and then work out wouldn't you have all those nutrients and stuff just stored away in your body to be used immediatly by your muscles instead of making them wait for the nutrients in the next meal. 

Also isn't it said that most your muscle growth is while your sleeping ?

i dont know alot about this but in my mind it seems that working out at night gives you the same results but you dont have the test. or amount of energy you would have from doing it in the morning. O ya i have a great deal of test. build-up after working out (im alway horny after working out) so wouldn't you have that going for ya when you go to sleep ?


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## pinkinthemiddle (Apr 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by senimoni *_
> Is this more or less of a factor if one is cutting as opposed to bulking?




Yeah, good question..


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## elitist (Apr 24, 2004)

Oh more of a factor if you're cutting. Your metabolism slows down by approximately 20% when you sleep. Think about it, when do you want to ingest that PWO shake chalk full of carbs, and the big hearty meal that follows after your workout, in the morning after you get up, and your metabolisim is peaking, or in the last hours before bed, when any excess carbs that are not used to refill your depleted glycogen stores will almost certainly be stored as excess fat. Your bodies circadian cycle senses the fast that is coming with the sleep, and will horde calories instead of burning them for energy as it normally would when much of your day and physical activity is still ahead of you. Say bye bye cuts. If your bulking, and have a quick metabolisim to boot, I wouldnt worry about it, but if you have a sluggish metabolisim as i do, and you dont feel like turning into stay puff as you bulk, you should still give it its due attention, and seriously consider the factors I just mentioned.


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## Tha Don (Apr 24, 2004)

i workout in the evening, by far the most convenient time of day for me

i try to get in a post workout shake, dinner (which i normally have to reheat as i won't get back from gym till 10 some evenings), then an hour later i will have a bedtime snack too

i will try to get my workouts in on the way home from college, BUT i always feel tired and i like to go home, eat a decent meal then hit the gym so i'm all fueled up n' ready to go

i guess go to the gym when you feel at your most focused! like i would go in the morning but i'm not a morning person, so thats out the window for me!

peace


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## CowPimp (Apr 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by young d *_
> i workout in the evening, by far the most convenient time of day for me
> 
> i try to get in a post workout shake, dinner (which i normally have to reheat as i won't get back from gym till 10 some evenings), then an hour later i will have a bedtime snack too
> ...



I agree totally.  Although I understand the benefits of working out early I just can't do it.  One, because of time constraints.  Two, because I am not a morning person.  I would have a crappy workout every time if I worked out too early.


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