# Sponsorship disclaimer?



## MarcusMaximus (Feb 5, 2004)

just a thought.  in most medical or research journals, there is a disclaimer for each author/researcher announcing areas of conflict or sponsorship from companies.  

on this board, there are people who are sponsored, either directly by cash payment or by product in kind,  by various supplement companies.  

When giving comments, advise, announcement,  etc for these companies, should the person making the post put a disclaimer in the signature saying that they are re-imbursed by the company involved?    or should it be buyer beware? or in this case, 'reader' beware?


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## Arnold (Feb 5, 2004)

who are you talking about?

we all know that gopro works for VPX.


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## MarcusMaximus (Feb 5, 2004)

lol,  funny i was just trying to edit my post to reflect that.  i wasn't talking about anyone in particular.  
you are correct in that the people who frequent these boards or have 1000's of posts and spend hours here know that goPro works for VPX.   However, some of the new ones may not realize that.  i wasn't writing of anyone in particular.  GoPro has been very open about his sponsorship.    

in many research publications, possible conflicts of interest arise and are stated at the end of each report/article.  I know that this  isn't a research site

Edited portion:  the research site is a reference to the liquidresearch company being under investigation as stated in another thread started by a moderator.


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## MarcusMaximus (Feb 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> who are you talking about?
> 
> we all know that gopro works for VPX.


hello prince,
i wasn't really thinking of gopro- he has always been upfront about it. in fact, if anything he could sing the praises even more than he does.  some people talk endlessly about swole and/or Syntrax or whatever as there are several threads about this one product and company that makes it.  These threads almost make me want to try it yet its far too expensive for my meager income.

i was thinking more about those people who suddenly announce that a particular item blows or a company is not any good.  Secondly, i am somewhat leary of unsolicited announcements of "hey, i found a great site" or " hey take a look at his website.. they have great prices..."  usually it's a case of someone trying to help us all out in finding cheaper sources.    the latter case is no big deal yet the former is sneaky and underhanded.


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## Twin Peak (Feb 6, 2004)

You make a fair point; or at least hit on one.

There are various people throughout the boards that own, work for, , are affiliated with, or are sponsored by various companies.  Any decent person or poster will readily and openly disclose his or her affiliation.  I do readily, and usually remind people when discussing an Avant product, and indeed, its reflected in my avatar and sig.

However, the converse happens.  Boards are literally littered with trolls -- people posting on behalf of a company yet pretend to simply be a fan of the company.  

Unfortunately, there is little you can do about it, as it is their intent to deceive -- except you can and should be wary of such people.  Often such people are outted at some point, because it becomes obvious.  All I can recommend, is, keep your guard up.  I'd be much more inclined to listen to someone biased like Eric, who discloses his bias, then someone who is obviously biased, but won't admit it.


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## HoldDaMayo (Feb 6, 2004)

TP?!?!!  you're affiliated with a supplement company?  Oh sure... now ya tell me, after I bought my leptigen, Ab-Solved, Lipoderm Ultra, and FL-7...


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## MarcusMaximus (Feb 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> You make a fair point; or at least hit on one.
> However, the converse happens.  Boards are literally littered with trolls -- people posting on behalf of a company yet pretend to simply be a fan of the company.


exactly.   there are always shills to be found on every board on every topic.  usually, they overplay their 'fondness" and are easily seen.  yet as you pointed out, there are others who dupe many people into making choicesthat they otherwise may not have made.  You call them trolls,  very appropriate.  i call them shills.  same thing.  i think i like trolls for the name better than shills



> Unfortunately, there is little you can do about it, as it is their intent to deceive -- except you can and should be wary of such people.  Often such people are outted at some point, because it becomes obvious.  All I can recommend, is, keep your guard up.  I'd be much more inclined to listen to someone biased like Eric, who discloses his bias, then someone who is obviously biased, but won't admit it.



.  
I always have to wonder what is behind a person's motives when they blast some company or product or whatever/whomever.
I don't know who Eric is so I'll just lurk around until he pops up in a conversatin.  
thanks for your input.


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## Var (Feb 6, 2004)

I've thought about this quite a bit when members review a new supp.  If they are receiving free samples on the condition that they post feedback, this is info people should know.  When I see a post and they do not offer that key fact, I wonder how valid/honest their feedback really is.  Simply stating that they were approach by comapany x, and asked to try out their product, would make me much more willing to believe their feedback.  Just my .02


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## HoldDaMayo (Feb 6, 2004)

agreed


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## PreMier (Feb 6, 2004)

MarcusMaximus--  Eric=GoPro


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## MarcusMaximus (Feb 6, 2004)

i knew that it had to be more than just myself who noticed this about some of the posts on the boards.


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## Var (Feb 6, 2004)

I commented on it in a thread once before.  Of course, took a flaming for it.


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## MarcusMaximus (Feb 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by PreMier *_
> MarcusMaximus--  Eric=GoPro



hey thanks premier..    i never caught his name in the posts.  thanks again.
   there is no " sheepish grin" emoticon so this will have to do


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## MarcusMaximus (Feb 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Var *_
> I commented on it in a thread once before.  Of course, took a flaming for it.



how long ago as I scrolled thru a little ways back.  
I just take it for granted that there are going to be some trolls on every board on any subject.


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## Var (Feb 6, 2004)

I'd have to search.  It was actually in an unrelated thread and somehow the topic came around to it.  I think many of the people doing it on this board are NOT trolls. They see an opportunity for some free supps and possibly even do give honest feedback.  I just think they should be totally upfront about what they're getting out of the deal.


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## PreMier (Feb 6, 2004)

I get the satisfaction that a supp works.    If it doesnt I bitch


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## Var (Apr 8, 2004)

Since Babsies Syntrax thread was closed, I figured I'd give this one a bump.


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## camarosuper6 (Apr 8, 2004)

All these damn trolls are getting paid by supplement companies.. why can't one of those companies hire me


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## Twin Peak (Apr 8, 2004)

Good bump.

Var, where did you get flamed?  And by whom?


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## camarosuper6 (Apr 8, 2004)

In all seriousness,  honest feedback is one of the reasons I came to this board.  Like I have said in previous posts, all the garbage littered in magazines and much of the garbage across the Net really had a large effect in my diet/routine/supplementation before I educated myself and found good places like this one to learn, and give feedback. I was overweight, weak and thought I was doing all the right things according to what all the ad's were telling me, but I was really destroying myself and my health.

Newbs and veterans alike need good, solid information, which is one of the reasons I visit only a few select boards that controll their spam, like this one.  I hate to think  people would jepordize their personal integrity and some foolish newbie to make a buck, but sometimes it seems my standards are too high.


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## Var (Apr 8, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Good bump.
> 
> Var, where did you get flamed?  And by whom?



I'd have to go back and find the thread.  I think it may have been Gopro's MAD thread, but I'm not sure.


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## Var (Apr 8, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Var *_
> I'd have to go back and find the thread.  I think it may have been Gopro's MAD thread, but I'm not sure.



Nope...my bad.  The MAD thread brought up similar issues, but I didnt really get flamed there.  

This has been something thats bothered me for quite a while.  I just cant stomach the idea that people post "feedback" about supps that they get for free...and then have the nerve to hide that fact.


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## topolo (Apr 8, 2004)

Well all I can say is don't criticize shipping times or make any jokes  or Prince will come down on you..............................after all he is the owner!! and he will tell you what you can say and when.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 8, 2004)

I couldn't agree more.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 8, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by topolo *_
> Well all I can say is don't criticize shipping times or make any jokes  or Prince will come down on you..............................after all he is the owner!! and he will tell you what you can say and when.



Well, its his board.

And I certainly hope you don't think he was defending me.  He wouldn't do that.


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## Var (Apr 8, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by topolo *_
> Well all I can say is don't criticize shipping times or make any jokes  or Prince will come down on you..............................after all he is the owner!! and he will tell you what you can say and when.


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 8, 2004)

She is now over on another bodybuilding board doing exactly the same thing.  she first gets people to feel sympathy towards her, then she starts shilling syntrax. she has changed her writing style though, now everyone is " brother" or " bro" or ' Man".  same bad advice, same cut and paste jobs being passed off as her own information.  

there is no shame at all.  just as aggressively belligerent when confronted over there as she was over here... it never ends.


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## PreMier (Apr 8, 2004)

What board?


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## Var (Apr 8, 2004)

Yeah...what board???


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## Var (Apr 8, 2004)

I think one thing we should NOT lose sight of is that Babsie wasnt the only one doing this.  We've all seen lots of questionable Syntrax threads (I think many were about Nectar) from other members (some well respected) here.


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## Jodi (Apr 8, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Var *_
> I think one thing we should NOT lose sight of is that Babsie wasnt the only one doing this.  We've all seen lots of questionable Syntrax threads (I think many were about Nectar) from other members (some well respected) here.


Yes, but I bet if asked, they wouldn't lie about and openly admit it


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## Monolith (Apr 8, 2004)

Eh... just learn not to take one person's opinion or advice as gospel.  For that matter, dont use one source for your information - use various bulletin boards, various books, and just talk to people at your gym.  Even if you're given 'bad' information by a malevolent or misinformed person, it'll have a minimal impact because you've been sure to gather a variety of sources before making a decision.  You will have educated yourself as to why and how a certain supplement works, not just "ITS SECRET RUSSIAN KGB POWDER THAT MAEKS U HUGE DUED!!!1."

If you're careful, it should be near impossible for one shady persons information to steer you wrong, since you'll have a solid foundation based on a myriad of sources that their misleading information can't crack.


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## Var (Apr 8, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Yes, but I bet if asked, they wouldn't lie about and openly admit it



This is NOT the point in my mind Jodi.  A search on Nectar reveals many interesting posts.  From my point of view, the first post in such a thread should say something like, "Syntrax hooked me up with some free stuff and asked me to post my feedback".  Otherwise, its shady!!!


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## topolo (Apr 8, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Well, its his board.
> 
> And I certainly hope you don't think he was defending me.  He wouldn't do that.





TP you are the man............and you need do defense


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## Var (Apr 8, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Monolith *_
> Eh... just learn not to take one person's opinion or advice as gospel.  For that matter, dont use one source for your information - use various bulletin boards, various books, and just talk to people at your gym.  Even if you're given 'bad' information by a malevolent or misinformed person, it'll have a minimal impact because you've been sure to gather a variety of sources before making a decision.  You will have educated yourself as to why and how a certain supplement works, not just "ITS SECRET RUSSIAN KGB POWDER THAT MAEKS U HUGE DUED!!!1."
> 
> If you're careful, it should be near impossible for one shady persons information to steer you wrong, since you'll have a solid foundation based on a myriad of sources that their misleading information can't crack.



Agreed!  And this is definitely what I do.  My concern is the newb's who come on the board and read posts from someone with a high post count preaching the benefits of supplement X


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 9, 2004)

i think that babsie was the most blatant, and deceitful one doing this.  although there were other people posting about syntrax or nectar ( i'd say that this adverts were successful as i now want to give nectar a try - anyone know where i can score a free sample?)  these other people were not posting their opinions over and over in an endless stream.

i mean, did this woman actually have a job?  other than pimping Nectar?  I mean she had 4000 + posts!  4000+ ! and it's not as if she was a mod or anything.  

Her behavior calls into question EVERYTHING that she said, everything that she did and everythign that she said that she did!  it seems to me that all her other posts were simply a set up for her posts about syntrax.  

And many of her posts was bad advice or stolen from some other website or stolen from another person then she tried to pass off as being her own.  

you can be against steroids all you want ( this is not the specific "you" but the general "you" so I am not talking to anyone in particular ),  but her stance seemed to be ' steroids are bad " then she would come back with a product placement.  so her goal seems to have been to downpplay the importance of steroids while over playing the importance of supplements in general but specifically syntrax supplements.

Her last post about Anabolic Steroid , women and what they can and can't do was particular amusing although she did n't intend it  to be funny.  unintentional humor is the best.  the entire article was off.  these articles mean well but fitness competitors DO take anabolics.  in the beginning most took anavar or some other weaker steroid.  the contention that fitness athletes don't resort to anabolics or that anabolics don't do any of the listed thing is absurd.

I am not for people being handed steroids upon entering a gym or when assigned a workout routine.  but articles  like that do not help the debate.  

so yes, babsie was indeed the only one who passive- aggressively went all out for syntrax and nectar. and when confronted, became even more so. 

she then altered her mode of attack, changed her writing style ( she now writes as if she is from the inner city or in a hip hop style - everyone is a 'bro' or "man" or " brother" .  )  i am waiting for her to start using "buddy"!.  

someone over at the other board has already noticed that she is a complete crock of shit- she cut and pasted an entire article onone prohomone.which she then tried to pass off as being her own thoughts.  Another person subsequently posted the real source of the information and in fact that the information was for an entirely different prohomone!    
it's enough to make you cringe when you see this happening.

Syntrax could not have picked a worse person to hire.  But she has no sense of shame at all, in fact she has learned from her experience over here and has taken it elsewhere.  so in fact, we have helped her by pointing out her mistakes.  

HEY SYNTRAX- I WANT MY CUT!


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 9, 2004)

*bABSIE'S BOARD*

a person could tell that babsie thought that this was her board.  in my initial encounter with her, she essentially told me to stop coming back. that this was her board.  Not in those exact words yet the intention was clear.  
that is the problem with people who are allowed to post non stop AND are never checked or held accountable for their actions.  She had a high post count and it seemed as if she could say and do whatever she wanted.  few ever pointed out her errors in any significant way.  So she became to view this board as her own personal space.  When she was confronted, she ripped the person a new one !

this was what was unique and different about Babsie- she could not tolerate anyone disagreeing with her.  she then accused the other person of doing exactly that as well.  It was like talking to a 4 year old.  

the distinction is very important;  i have disagreed with Jodi ( about the definitino of food in one instance and something else in another ).  neither one of us went for the other's jugular in our argument. and it ended and we sometimes now joke about it.

these people react and respond with innapropriate violence and aggression out of proportion to the event.  I have constantly wondered about these people's personalities; whether it works for them in their life.  the constant threatening behavior and then having to back it up.  their cortisol levels must be sky high!  

Seems to me to be a punch of peacocks flashing their feathers.


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 9, 2004)

*other board*

i dont' wish to upset Prince by posting the other board name on this thread.  if you wish for it, you can pm me.


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## Eggs (Apr 9, 2004)

Marcus, you wouldnt happen to be one of those kinds of people that beats a dead horse would you? 



You brought up alot of good points and made alot of good statements though.  For that I'm sure alot of members are thankful.  That said, could we bury the damn horse already?


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Eggs *_
> Marcus, you wouldnt happen to be one of those kinds of people that beats a dead horse would you?
> 
> 
> ...



lol


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## Twin Peak (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Var *_
> I think one thing we should NOT lose sight of is that Babsie wasnt the only one doing this.  We've all seen lots of questionable Syntrax threads (I think many were about Nectar) from other members (some well respected) here.



Hell, I've bumped Nectar threads, its good stuff, especially the sour apple.  Its just way too pricey.

That said, there are probably other people (shills/trolls) from other companies that we should feret out.

Those who have seen Babs on other boards, please PM me the links.

I am starting to think that "she" was way more than just receiving free product.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by MarcusMaximus *_
> i think that babsie was the most blatant, and deceitful one doing this.  although there were other people posting about syntrax or nectar ( i'd say that this adverts were successful as i now want to give nectar a try - anyone know where i can score a free sample?)  these other people were not posting their opinions over and over in an endless stream.
> 
> i mean, did this woman actually have a job?  other than pimping Nectar?  I mean she had 4000 + posts!  4000+ ! and it's not as if she was a mod or anything.
> ...



I linked the other thread over at Avant, and once of the first comments someone made was that "Babs" sounded like a man trying to write like a woman.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: bABSIE'S BOARD*



> _*Originally posted by MarcusMaximus *_
> a person could tell that babsie thought that this was her board.  in my initial encounter with her, she essentially told me to stop coming back. that this was her board.  Not in those exact words yet the intention was clear.
> that is the problem with people who are allowed to post non stop AND are never checked or held accountable for their actions.  She had a high post count and it seemed as if she could say and do whatever she wanted.  few ever pointed out her errors in any significant way.  So she became to view this board as her own personal space.  When she was confronted, she ripped the person a new one !
> 
> ...



Such people need to be confronted; and checked.

We had several encounters before this one, and she always backed down and tried to smooth it over with "hon".


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## Twin Peak (Apr 9, 2004)

Oh, btw, I have an affiliation with Avant Labs.


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## Eggs (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I am starting to think that "she" was way more than just receiving free product.



If this is the case then we definitely shouldnt just bury it for sure.  What makes you think this TP, besides the fact that she was way more vehement in her denial than she should have been regarding a free product.


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## kuso (Apr 9, 2004)

I too should come clean here I guess....I`m rather ashamed.....

While giving out advice left right and center in the Sexual Health forum, I never let it be known I was actually representing, and sponsored by...

[img2]http://www.1clickcondoms.com/condomphotos/t_magnumxl_l_12box1.jpg[/img2]


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## Eggs (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Oh, btw, I have an affiliation with Avant Labs.


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Re: bABSIE'S BOARD*



> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Such people need to be confronted; and checked.
> 
> We had several encounters before this one, and she always backed down and tried to smooth it over with "hon".


don't i know it.  she does this all the time.  she is now doing it with mousie.  makes a back handed comment about what someone else meant about mousie's boyfriend then adds " hon"...  in the next post to patch things up.


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> I too should come clean here I guess....I`m rather ashamed.....
> 
> While giving out advice left right and center in the Sexual Health forum, I never let it be known I was actually representing, and sponsored by...
> ...



hey, i loaned those to you, and if you can't use them, i wnat them back!!!


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## Eggs (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> I too should come clean here I guess....I`m rather ashamed.....
> 
> While giving out advice left right and center in the Sexual Health forum, I never let it be known I was actually representing, and sponsored by...
> ...




Yes Kuso, you should have told us... we would never have bought those products if we knew they misrepresented the size so badly.  I mean, most of us couldnt fit one of those things over our little toe!

I'm glad they fit you just perfectly though!


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I linked the other thread over at Avant, and once of the first comments someone made was that "Babs" sounded like a man trying to write like a woman.



maybe her name should be Pat.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Eggs *_
> If this is the case then we definitely shouldnt just bury it for sure.  What makes you think this TP, besides the fact that she was way more vehement in her denial than she should have been regarding a free product.



The fact that she is on another board with a different writing style is a clue.

Add to that how she left here, in here journal, very upset -- distraught even, due to personal issues -- then hourse later, is posting on another board about Syntrax all over again.


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## Eggs (Apr 9, 2004)

Yes, that does seem indicative that there is more to the situation than meets the eye.  It really calls the endometriosis (sp?) and what not into question... makes it seem nothing more than a tool to latch on to people.

Hrm..


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 9, 2004)

ao she stole another person's identity as well.  She took the name Big Swole.  it wasn't even her name to take.  I know that Big Swole is Babsie as she is over there talking about her endometriosis.  I don't doubt that she has endo but her use of it in this regard is something else!  
as for her 'emotional distress"  them be crocodile tears.  Just something to garner more sympathy from naive people. 

its crazy.  click on her profile, then click, search all posts by this member and you will see how see talks about her endometriosis .  its' all the same ..

you will find her under " what sort of creatine " in the supplement section.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 9, 2004)

Definitely more than meets the eye.


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## donescobar2000 (Apr 9, 2004)

This Babs situation is complety disgusting.  I would have banned her ass just for lying if she did that at my board.


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## Sir Foxx (Apr 9, 2004)

So, does Babsie work for Syntrax or what?  I first met her at the Sytnrax board and she was Gung-Ho Syntrax, but I didn't think she worked for them.

I'm a Syntrax supporter but I don't work for them or any other company for that matter.  If someone does work for a supp.company it would the only ethical thing to do by listing the affiliation.


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## topolo (Apr 9, 2004)

Perhaps Prince should address this issue instead of attempting to regulate the thoughts of PAYING members who engage in a bit of fun and sarcasm.

Just a thought.


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Sir Foxx *_
> So, does Babsie work for Syntrax or what?  I first met her at the Sytnrax board and she was Gung-Ho Syntrax, but I didn't think she worked for them.
> 
> I'm a Syntrax supporter but I don't work for them or any other company for that matter.  If someone does work for a supp.company it would the only ethical thing to do by listing the affiliation.



i think that babsie is one of those people like the guy in the Wendy's commercials.  you knw, if you haven't seen it, the guy runs around with a bullhorn promoting wendy's food items, he's at the mall yelling through a bullhorn to get people to try the salad. people yell up .  do you work for Wendy's or something?" and he says " no but i want to!"  
this scenario would be the most charitable.  so she's just a delusional nitwit blowhard in that case.  a fred flintstone type of character whose personality, in time  turns off everyone she meets.  it takes a while for people to recognize it but there she is.  She was always extended the benefit of the doubt due to her, being female, the picture in her profile is kind of cute if not good looking, and she has endo.  for many people, its hard to believe that such a person could be evil.  and i think that she is.  

if syntrax IS paying her, then the owner of the company is pretty stupid as it was a poor choice.


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## Eggs (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by topolo *_
> Perhaps Prince should address this issue instead of attempting to regulate the thoughts of PAYING members who engage in a bit of fun and sarcasm.
> 
> Just a thought.



What are you talking about?


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## tucker01 (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Eggs *_
> What are you talking about?




That's what I thought


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## Sir Foxx (Apr 9, 2004)

I'll ask Derek and see if I can't get some sort of answer about all of this.


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## 1Fast400 (Apr 9, 2004)

My name is 1Fast400, I work for 1Fast400.com


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## Twin Peak (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by 1Fast400 *_
> My name is 1Fast400, I work for 1Fast400.com



Shill.


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## donescobar2000 (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by 1Fast400 *_
> My name is 1Fast400, I work for 1Fast400.com


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## draven (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by 1Fast400 *_
> My name is 1Fast400, I work for 1Fast400.com



so when's the eta on the Methyl-dien to be available?

And are you sure you really work for 1fast400?  show us some ID. lmao


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## Var (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by draven *_
> so when's the eta on the Methyl-dien to be available?



This is a troll bashing thread.  Please stick to the topic!!    j/k


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## Monolith (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by draven *_
> so when's the eta on the Methyl-dien to be available?



April 19th, but you can preorder it now.


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## Jodi (Apr 9, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Var *_
> This is a troll bashing thread.  Please stick to the topic!!    j/k


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## draven (Apr 9, 2004)

what, I was verifying his authenticity (sp?)

that's why we need to see some ID.


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## Sir Foxx (Apr 9, 2004)

Word on the street is that 1fast400 is really Bruce Kneller j/k


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## 1Fast400 (Apr 10, 2004)

No sir foxx, just his dad.  

Hopefully we will get bottles before the 19th, but no promises.


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## Sir Foxx (Apr 10, 2004)

LOL


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 10, 2004)

*Deception*

i am glad that ppl here on this board have a sense of humor.  And that most are upfront about their affiliations.  and can joke and laugh at what is harmless fun.

what will be an issue for some of the members is the abject sense of betrayal caused by this babsie person.  Ever see the movie Deceived?  This is what happened in this case.  a person made strong emotional ties based upon certain assumed truths that were in fact absolute lies. and it was clearly a way one street in which the liar had eveything to gain while the other partner lost everything.  

there may be a few people on this board that are NOT handling the exposure of Babsie as well as the rest of us.  These members may have gotten close to her, thru her endless posts of her illness and personal distress.  These members may have fallen for her lies and have been sucked in so deeply and for so long that they even now refuse to believe it.  There are still those who believe that O.J. is out looking for the real killers...

Then there are those who may feel incredible anger at her and at themselves for falling for it.  Most people don't have a good defense system for charlatans and frauds.  They may now feel foolish and despair.  It is like being in what appears to be a sincere monogamous relationship only to discover that after 20 years,  your spouse is actually married to 2 other people.  Or in this case, since Babsie's sex is not certain, that your husband is in fact a woman.  

ON another level, it may feel like your best friend just betrayed you; stabbing you in the back.  Babsie was extremely emotionally manipulative in her actions.  Most of these narcissistic people come back to those they hurt by writing a letter saying that they didn't mean it, or not to believe anyone who points out the truth.  People who got sucked in by her ( it seems that several female members were close to her at least on this board  anyway) may feel somewhat diminished by the interaction.  that's a tough burden to carry; to know that a trusted person manipulated you for their own personal gain, never once caring for your own emotional fulfillment.  used, chewed and barbequed.  and then tossed out like trash.


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## Eggs (Apr 10, 2004)

Or you can just say "Ah well, you win some you loose some" and dont let it get to you 

I think it'll do more harm by bringing it up again and again than just letting people deal with it and get over it.


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 10, 2004)

*this thread*



> _*Originally posted by Var *_
> I think one thing we should NOT lose sight of is that Babsie wasnt the only one doing this.  We've all seen lots of questionable Syntrax threads (I think many were about Nectar) from other members (some well respected) here.



Babsie WAS the impetus behind starting this thread when i did it..  it had nothing to do with go pro or any of the lightweight small time shilling going on.  i can handle that.  like the goof now trying to get us to go to the website about the heat shit.  that is just so stupid as to be beyond mention.    what babsie did was more pernicious and simply evil.  to me what she was attempting and in many cases accomplishing was an extrreme act of treachery.

N.B.
I do not consider gopro lightweight in anything.    i made the clear distinction there so there is no misunderstanding.


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 10, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Eggs *_
> Or you can just say "Ah well, you win some you loose some" and dont let it get to you
> 
> I think it'll do more harm by bringing it up again and again than just letting people deal with it and get over it.



you may be of the opinion that history is not worth studying. I am not of that opinion.   it would be great to forget our past travails and be peace-loving and assuming the best of everyone.  however, not every one that we meet holds the same set of values and once our guard is down, they over take us for our kindness.

i am not talking about grief counseling for these people as recent psych studies have indeed shown that for the majority of people, the endless analysis of how something affects you creates more distress than the actual event. 

Babsie has not negatively affected me in any way.  i bring up that fact that others may not be accustommed to dealing with psychos and in fact became closer to her ( on the board ) than you did.  

the kernel of truth to take from this, and the lessons to be learned is that of experience; now that you have seen how people manipulate others, and of how your can be manipulated by others, you can better prepare yourself for it in the future. 

People like Babsie, unlike overly aggressive blowhards, LEARN from their experience as well.  they sharpen their skills at deception and move on to other sources of prey.  That is the amazing thing about people such as 'whatever she is"; although they seem to lack cognition of some of the most basic emotions as expressed by others, they are hyper attuned to their own.   It's beyond self-centeredness.

I see her as nothing less than a predator.  

Eggs, you have moved on. YOurs was not a particularly deep or meaningful interaction or relationship with Babsie.  Others, for whom this site became like a home, had a different experience.  

Like myself  you are not hampered by her at all.  You don't wish to take part in any future discussion.  yet you come back to make that statement.  you have ever right to do so.   Neither have gone for the jugular nor resorted to aggression based upon our very slight disagreement over this one issue.  

there may be someone who feels badly for what happened in her/ his interaction with this babsie.  That fact that it wasn't you, and you think that it's not best to talk about it, doesn't make it necessarily so for this other person or persons, whomever itor they may be.  they will not announce it, and never will, simply carry it for ever. feeling bad.  we won't hear about it.   

I don't believe that you don't think it is important, more likely you just didn't know of how some people react and what actions these people subsequently take.  
MM


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## Monolith (Apr 10, 2004)

Please, there are children watching.  You've already killed the horse, there's no need to continue maniacally clubbing its corpse.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 10, 2004)

*Re: this thread*



> _*Originally posted by MarcusMaximus *_
> like the goof now trying to get us to go to the website about the heat shit.  that is just so stupid as to be beyond mention.



What are you refering to here?


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## Eggs (Apr 10, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by MarcusMaximus *_
> I don't believe that you don't think it is important, more likely you just didn't know of how some people react and what actions these people subsequently take.
> MM



Thats not it at all Marcus.  I'm sure some people have been hurt by this... and I hope that this doesnt scar them and make them untrusting of others, because there are certainly some good people on here.

However, if somebody on this board is indeed so hurt by this... then neither you nor myself is duly qualified to help them with that problem, or to act like we can.  If they want to talk about it, by all means listen... but for us to try and pass off what we think sounds right about dealing with the situation is no better  than that which started this mess.

So anyways, I believe everyones feelings on this board are important.  I also believe that bringing this up time and again wont improve that any.

I'm not sure of anyone who is so involved in their being at IM that they cant get over this.  In fact, 99.9% of the site already has


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## Twin Peak (Apr 10, 2004)

Unless of course, the issue is systemic and much bigger than Babs.

How many other "members" are merely shills for companies pretending to be just a "regular member"?


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## Eggs (Apr 10, 2004)

Now if there is any lesson to be taken from this then that is exactly it TP 

Not to trust every Tom, Dick and Harry that try to get your interested in products.  The supplement world is full of crap products, its not surprising that the companies that produce them (and know what trash they are) are willing to hire people to sell them.

We'd all do well to be aware of this and keep it in mind in our interactions in the BB community.


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Eggs *_
> Thats not it at all Marcus.  I'm sure some people have been hurt by this... and I hope that this doesnt scar them and make them untrusting of others, because there are certainly some good people on here.
> 
> However, if somebody on this board is indeed so hurt by this... then neither you nor myself is duly qualified to help them with that problem, or to act like we can.  If they want to talk about it, by all means listen... but for us to try and pass off what we think sounds right about dealing with the situation is no better  than that which started this mess.
> ...



I wsn't offering to help.  just pointing out that some ppl may have been hurt more than others.  they may be reading this, and understood immediately what i was talking about and were thankful that someone understood what they were feeling.  

i have never said that we should write endless notes back and forth to each other about it.  you read something more than what was written.


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: Re: this thread*



> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> What are you refering to here?



sortware samurai, posted a note about EAT metabolic something or other. it wasn't HEAT . It has nothing to do with Avant.  he posted a link to the direct advertising site.  there have been no posts in his thread so hopefully this discussion about shills prompted people to simply avoid that thread.


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## Sir Foxx (Apr 11, 2004)

Derek's response:

When a new product comes out, we always send a certain amount out for testing. We have NEVER asked any of the people doing the testing to lie or even to post positive things on the board. People post what they really believe to be the case about the product. Some of our testers have actually posted negative things about one of our product. We never even asked them to put a bunch of posts on the boards...if they do this, they do it because they want to. The amount of free product has ever only been very small.

This situation is caused by a few very jealous competitors that hate that Syntrax is well-respected on the boards. These people are pitiful and will do anything to discredit Syntrax...just look at who is constantly posting about this "terrible" situation. These are the people that noonne should respect. I will just ignore them.

As far as I know, Babsie never received free product.


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Sir Foxx *_
> Derek's response:
> 
> When a new product comes out, we always send a certain amount out for testing. We have NEVER asked any of the people doing the testing to lie or even to post positive things on the board. People post what they really believe to be the case about the product. Some of our testers have actually posted negative things about one of our product. We never even asked them to put a bunch of posts on the boards...if they do this, they do it because they want to.


fair enough 



> The amount of free product has ever only been very small.


Really?  Do you work for syntrax? who is Derek as I am out in the cold on this one.   



> This situation is caused by a few very jealous competitors that hate that Syntrax is well-respected on the boards. These people are pitiful and will do anything to discredit Syntrax...just look at who is constantly posting about this "terrible" situation. These are the people that noonne should respect. I will just ignore them.



Just about everyone here LIKES syntrax products.  few if anyone is bad mouthing syntrax.  


> As far as I know, Babsie never received free product.



so she was simply just another self absorbed delusional nitwit blowhard who thought that she may get freebies if she kept blowing your horn? so she was simply a whore? an unpaid shill?  how fuqqing sad is that!  that makes her even more pathetic than I thought possible.  

since she is over at another board now hawking syntrax ( for nothing apparently) the people over there WHO DO RECEIVE FREE SYNTRAX will probably boot her ass of the threads soon enough...

it's a beautiful world.


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 11, 2004)

Foxx /Derek,

coupla things come to mind:

the small bit of free product;  you fail to consider and certainly don't bother to mention the well known fact that humans respond to free gifts in a variety of ways;  some people WILL feel a brand loyalty towards the company giving the free item.  the "gift" bestows a sense of obligation onto the recipient towards the giver.  This is a well known tool in advertising; one which Derek doesn't wish to acknowledge.  

Moreover, with the advent of these websites, the tiny amount of free product given away creates a freaking AVALANCE' of positve advertisements on these boards.  And it is a CASCADE effect as they soon take it to other boards on which other people receiving ( or hope to ) free product jump in with their endorsement.  all under the pretense of " hey bro, i found a great product, you should try it.'  then paid shill  #2 pipes in with " yeah, thanks for the heads up, that a great item you found there. heard nothign but good about it.;!"  this is what i saw on another board about company X products.  obvious....how about just hitting people over the head with the butt end of the shovel and sticking a jug of ITEM Y in their hands...

It also is a tactic to now and then say something negative about a product of the company in order to offset any lurking suspicions.  People's guards go back down after that. 

Very telling about whoever Derek is, is his comment "terrible" situation.  quotations around terrible were his.  IF he doesn't consider fake and dishonest advertisements, in which the enticement of free items procure a positive review of a product, if he doesn't consider these modes of advertising DECEPTIVE AND DOWNRIGHT DISHONEST, then he just wrote his own obituary.  

Some people will do just about anything if given something for free.  or given the hint of a free item in the future. 

I am not certain of whom derek referred in his comment about looking to see who was complaining.  Up until now, very few people have commented negatively about Syntrax specifically. Most have stated that they love or at least like syntrax products.  Most have commented negatively, and quite rightly, about the endless and very suspicious onslaught of 'everything Syntrax " by this Babsie person.  Who, after leaving here, in an indignant huff, started the same sort of thing over on another board.  this behavior leaves something to be desired. 

so, is Derek saying that he has never heard of this babsie person? 

We will never know what percentage of the total Syntrax production is given away as free promotional items for future consideration.  One free item given to the right person can certainly create a huge increase in sales if: the person is seen as being sincere and can hide the affiliation.  street credibility in effect.  

in the end, Babsie' became simply to abrasive and people stopped believing her/him.  especially when she was caught cutting and pasting other people's quotes, making backhanding comments about others and generally giving wrong advice or unsolicited advice that too was wrong..  

What's more, the way she changed over on the new board in her writing style to mask herself is simply weird.  is she just a deceptive personality with no affiliation to Syntrax  or is she so empty that she simply attached herself to something she found significant?  giving herself in her mind instant credibility.  

this type of advert ( gift for a positive review ) is common place in every industry.  and when caught, just about everyone admits to doing it.  those that don't admit to doing it essentially have shot themselves in the big toe!


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## Dale Mabry (Apr 11, 2004)

Hey all, I have something to come clean about.  While I have been on this boards a long time, I do not feel I have been completely honest, so I will tell you all right now.

I am a cheap man.  I have loyalty to any product that is an accpetable price to me.  If 1fast has something 4 cents cheaper than DPS, I will buy it from 1fast and vice versa.  Also, I have been given one free product since being on this board, Sytenhance.  I got results from it and kept a log of this info.  If I beta test a product and it sucks, you will know about it.  If you are stupid enough to go on someone's word as opposed to hard data, that is your problem.  Ya see, if a person is too lazy to get in and research a product deeply as opposed to the superficial manner most newbies go at it, they should lose their money and be put up for a Darwin Award for being a dumbass.

I also like Sytnrax, but have never gotten any for free.  I have no idea if it meets label claims, but then again, I have no idea if ANY product meets label claims because I am to cheap to test it myself.  It tastes pretty damn good though.  

Oh yeah, it was pretty damn obvious Babsie was on Syntrax's nuts.


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## Sir Foxx (Apr 11, 2004)

I am not Derek, I'm Sir Foxx.  I asked Derek(the owner of Syntrax, or possibly now just an outside consultant due to the rumors that Syntrax was bought out) to respond to what was going on.  He replied and I posted his reply here, that is all.


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## Sir Foxx (Apr 11, 2004)

Also, I first met Babsie on the Syntrax forum, and I'm sure that Derek has seen her posts.  She is definately gung ho Syntrax, her motives for it, I do not know.  I do feel I can trust Derek as he has never lied to me that I know of so I take him at his word until proven otherwise.  And before anyone tries to say I'm a Syntrax Shill, I'm a Health Physics Tech. at Research Nuclear Reactor.  My home board is AnabolicMinds.com and I've never gotten or asked for free product from anyone except Omega in reference to his new Glutamine Peptide product, which I didn't get picked for.  I think a few here know me from AM and a few other boards so I will let my rep speak for itself( I hope thats a good move)


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## titans1854 (Apr 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> Oh yeah, it was pretty damn obvious Babsie was on Syntrax's nuts.



well said


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## Eggs (Apr 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by MarcusMaximus *_
> I wsn't offering to help.  just pointing out that some ppl may have been hurt more than others.  they may be reading this, and understood immediately what i was talking about and were thankful that someone understood what they were feeling.
> 
> i have never said that we should write endless notes back and forth to each other about it.  you read something more than what was written.



I'm sure they're thankful that you feel their pain


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## Twin Peak (Apr 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Sir Foxx *_
> Derek's response:
> 
> When a new product comes out, we always send a certain amount out for testing. We have NEVER asked any of the people doing the testing to lie or even to post positive things on the board. People post what they really believe to be the case about the product. Some of our testers have actually posted negative things about one of our product. We never even asked them to put a bunch of posts on the boards...if they do this, they do it because they want to. The amount of free product has ever only been very small.
> ...



I guess this is referring to me?  I am the only "competitor" in smelling distance of this thread.

Pretty amusing, Derek.

Considering:

(1) I (and Avant) have nothing to be jealous of.

(2) I have never done anything to discredit Syntrax -- even in this (and related) threads.  Anyone who read anything I wrote knows that.

(3) On the contrary, I have frequently praised the Nectars (and recommend them) and on occassion praised/recommended Swole.

Nice try.


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## Var (Apr 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Sir Foxx *_
> Derek's response:
> 
> As far as I know, Babsie never received free product.



This is very interesting since we know that Babsie WAS receiving product.  He's either lying or has completely lost control of the company after the rumored buy out.


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## Var (Apr 11, 2004)

Anyone interested in this should check out TP's thread over at Avant.  Garabage Board/Covert Pimping Exposed.  Good read!


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## donescobar2000 (Apr 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I guess this is referring to me?  I am the only "competitor" in smelling distance of this thread.
> 
> Pretty amusing, Derek.
> ...




I agee with you on this TP.  No hating on your part.


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## Eggs (Apr 11, 2004)

Derek kinda stuck his foot in his mouth with this one... in that everyone here knows that Babsie was indeed receiving free product 

Guy should have read the threads first before making silly statements like that 

I also agree... there was no Syntrax hating by TP.  And he did indeed say Nectar was good stuff.


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## Eggs (Apr 11, 2004)

Thats what you get for complimenting other companies products TP, that'll show you


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## David Tolson (Apr 12, 2004)

There are some decent Syntrax products, but I personally do not trust Derek, I'm not sure if I would yet call him an outright liar, but he has been pretty shady when I have encountered him. He just says a lot without backing it up when pressed to explain it.


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Eggs *_
> I'm sure they're thankful that you feel their pain



maybe i should run for president just like bill clinton.

"I FEEL YOUR PAIN!  and i wouldn't mind a feel of a few other things along the way " 
however, unlike Bill I would do the quiet part guiet and the aloud part out loud.


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 12, 2004)

hey derek, 
how's your foot?


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 12, 2004)

*people of principle*



> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> Hey all, I have something to come clean about.  While I have been on this boards a long time, I do not feel I have been completely honest, so I will tell you all right now.
> 
> I am a cheap man.  I have loyalty to any product that is an accpetable price to me.  If 1fast has something 4 cents cheaper than DPS, I will buy it from 1fast and vice versa.  Also, I have been given one free product since being on this board, Sytenhance.  I got results from it and kept a log of this info.  If I beta test a product and it sucks, you will know about it.  If you are stupid enough to go on someone's word as opposed to hard data, that is your problem.  Ya see, if a person is too lazy to get in and research a product deeply as opposed to the superficial manner most newbies go at it, they should lose their money and be put up for a Darwin Award for being a dumbass.
> ...



This is what happens when a person of no morals, certainly no ethics, no outstanding principles to run amok on the boards.  When these people are exposed, it brings out honest people who feel a pang of guilt for their small participatioin.  

dale, you did absolutely nothing wrong.  You weren't shilling at all.  

i too am cheap.  However, unlike you , i cut it off at a nickel 

i cannot afford Syntrax; however, if someone reading this would send me a free sample, i'd gladly talk about it ad naseum on a website somewhere.   

your description of Babsie's involvement is the best one yet!


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## Dale Mabry (Apr 12, 2004)

I did not find syntrax to be all that expensive, but all I got was Nectar and it was pretty cheap at DPS.  I actually wanted to order from All the Whey, but there were probs with my billing info so I just scrapped it.  I think it was cuz i just changed my billing address so I will try again in a month.


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## ZECH (Apr 12, 2004)

Since I recieve free stuff from Syntrax to try, it means I'm a troll for them?? I don't think so! I don't get paid a single penny. I have even posted some negative comments at some point. I do like most of Syntrax products and I have bought many jugs of protein after my free sample was gone. Do you think I would have if I didn't like it. There are many Syntrax fans here and that is because they like the products and they work. Is that saying all their products are is worth buying? No. All the post I have made have been my honest feeling about them. And anyone that has been here for any length of time knew I loved Avants products. I guessed I pimped them too. But I didn't get any free. And I always bump 1fast400 for his products and service and I'm not getting anything from him for free. I know for a fact that there are more companies doing this, but I don't see anything wrong with this if you give honest feedback. How else does a product get started other than word of mouth. And if it doesn't work, time will tell by others feedback. But with Syntrax, this is not the case, because they make above average products. Like Tp said, there are employees from other companies that have promoted thier products.


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## ZECH (Apr 12, 2004)

BTW, Dereck is not over the sample program. Their marketing manager is. I'm not sure if Derek knows the people on the program or not?


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## Sir Foxx (Apr 12, 2004)

TP, I have a feeling Derek is referring to Par, not you, as Par has seemingly gone on attack mode over this issue.


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## Eggs (Apr 12, 2004)

Well, as long as when you tell us up front that you got the product for free... we'll refrain from calling you a supp whore 

Its just called being honest... and while you might think that receiving a free product has nothing to do with it, as an ethical issue it is important to make clear your involvement with a company when you test their products/receive free products.

Its what being above reproach is all about... and when you have an affiliation with a company then you should make it known to put yourself in that position.  For your sake, and for the companies.



> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Since I recieve free stuff from Syntrax to try, it means I'm a troll for them?? I don't think so! I don't get paid a single penny. I have even posted some negative comments at some point. I do like most of Syntrax products and I have bought many jugs of protein after my free sample was gone. Do you think I would have if I didn't like it. There are many Syntrax fans here and that is because they like the products and they work. Is that saying all their products are is worth buying? No. All the post I have made have been my honest feeling about them. And anyone that has been here for any length of time knew I loved Avants products. I guessed I pimped them too. But I didn't get any free. And I always bump 1fast400 for his products and service and I'm not getting anything from him for free. I know for a fact that there are more companies doing this, but I don't see anything wrong with this if you give honest feedback. How else does a product get started other than word of mouth. And if it doesn't work, time will tell by others feedback. But with Syntrax, this is not the case, because they make above average products. Like Tp said, there are employees from other companies that have promoted thier products.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Sir Foxx *_
> TP, I have a feeling Derek is referring to Par, not you, as Par has seemingly gone on attack mode over this issue.



I see.

It seemed like you his response was directed to this thread.  You are likely correct, since Derek doesn't even know who I am.


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## Var (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Since I recieve free stuff from Syntrax to try, it means I'm a troll for them?? I don't think so! I don't get paid a single penny. I have even posted some negative comments at some point. I do like most of Syntrax products and I have bought many jugs of protein after my free sample was gone. Do you think I would have if I didn't like it. There are many Syntrax fans here and that is because they like the products and they work. Is that saying all their products are is worth buying? No. All the post I have made have been my honest feeling about them. And anyone that has been here for any length of time knew I loved Avants products. I guessed I pimped them too. But I didn't get any free. And I always bump 1fast400 for his products and service and I'm not getting anything from him for free. I know for a fact that there are more companies doing this, but I don't see anything wrong with this if you give honest feedback. How else does a product get started other than word of mouth. And if it doesn't work, time will tell by others feedback. But with Syntrax, this is not the case, because they make above average products. Like Tp said, there are employees from other companies that have promoted thier products.



Seems pretty obvious that you've missed the point.  The point I think most of us are trying to make is that you should state the fact that they gave you free samples in your review.  It gives people a clearer picture of things and eliminate the chance that they'll feel tricked when things like this come into the light.  I'm not saying your feedback was dishonest, just that it should be made known when you receive free product and post feedback.


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## ZECH (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Var *_
> Seems pretty obvious that you've missed the point.  The point I think most of us are trying to make is that you should state the fact that they gave you free samples in your review.  It gives people a clearer picture of things and eliminate the chance that they'll feel tricked when things like this come into the light.  I'm not saying your feedback was dishonest, just that it should be made known when you receive free product and post feedback.


I see your point and agree with it. But the main reason it wasn't brought out was that you would have thousands of e-mails from people wanting to know how they could get some too. Obviously Syntrax does not want the e-mails and could not afford to give it to everyone who wanted it.


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## Eggs (Apr 12, 2004)

I'm glad you see the reason for the honesty DG... and its good that this is all out in the open then, because you dont have to worry about conflicts of interest between your integrity and Syntrax's desire to not have to deal with an overwhelming amount of e-mails.


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## Var (Apr 12, 2004)

I can see your point of view there as well.  I'm sure there are ways around this though.  Perhaps, stating in your first post that you CANNOT help anyone get samples.


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## ZECH (Apr 12, 2004)

I'm sure Syntrax will get bombed with e-mails now. Probably very few good ones.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 12, 2004)

DG that is a bullshit excuse.

We give out free product all the time.  And make it known.  And deal with further requests.


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## ZECH (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> DG that is a bullshit excuse.
> 
> We give out free product all the time.  And make it known.  And deal with further requests.


To the extent that Syntrax is doing??


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## ZECH (Apr 12, 2004)

And I'm sure I have helped Avant more in the past than Syntrax. You know that for a fact.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> And I'm sure I have helped Avant more in the past than Syntrax. You know that for a fact.



Yes, you have always been a supporter.  And I am not coming down on you.  Just the excuse given as to why it should be kept secret.

To the same extent?  It appears not, but that is not the point.


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## I Are Baboon (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> I see your point and agree with it. But the main reason it wasn't brought out was that you would have thousands of e-mails from people wanting to know how they could get some too. Obviously Syntrax does not want the e-mails and could not afford to give it to everyone who wanted it.



I agree with that.  Syntrax has sent me samples too and I never lied to anyone with my feedback.  While I don't believe I publicly announced I was given samples, I did let the moderator team know when Syntrax first contacted me.  Anyway, my Swole and Nectar samples ran out _months_ ago, but I now buy those products (I can post a DPS invoice if you'd like to see  ).  Would I have talked about Syntrax products had they not sent me samples?  Probably not, because I most likely would not spend $20 or so on a product _hoping_ it would work.  I am now halfway through my Nitrous sample and when it runs out, I will buy more.  Syntrax has sent out various products and not all of them have worked for me.

As far as Syntrax creating brand loyalty by sending out samples...if any other supplement companies reading this want to send me samples in hopes of getting my business, I will gladly take you up on that offer.   

Going forward, I will make note if the product I am reviewing was a sample.


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 12, 2004)

DG and IAB are absolutely correct in what they say.....

I have the email as proof, which is why no one said anything!  This didn't mean we didn't want to, we thought we couldn't say anything.......We gave our word but OUR advice WAS based on experience.......not in hopes of Syntrax to sell more product........


the submittor will remain anonymous.


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## I Are Baboon (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Var *_
> Perhaps, stating in your first post that you CANNOT help anyone get samples.



Excellent idea.


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## Var (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> DG and IAB are absolutely correct in what they say.....
> 
> I have the email as proof, which is why no one said anything!  This didn't mean we didn't want to, we thought we couldn't say anything.......We gave our word but OUR advice WAS based on experience.......not in hopes of Syntrax to sell more product........
> ...



I call bullshit!!!  You're still dodging the fact that you lied when confronted.  The others did not.  Dont try to jump on their balls to redeem yourself.  Your credibility is soiled.


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 12, 2004)

I'm not dodging anything.  

IMO, I feel the others were "warned" ahead of time....

Um, darlin....please check yourself because I'm not jumping on anyone balls.  I'm trying to stick up for them because what they're saying is true....

Your words don't hurt me.


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## gopro (Apr 12, 2004)

For once, VPX is not at the center of a controversy. Quite refreshing I must say.

By the way, I receive free product from Syntrax as well. They only asked for my feedback, and I give it...good, bad, or indifferent.


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## ZECH (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> For once, VPX is not at the center of a controversy. Quite refreshing I must say.
> 
> By the way, I receive free product from Syntrax as well. They only asked for my feedback, and I give it...good, bad, or indifferent.


I recall you saying you thought they missed the boat on the Vanilla sunrise. Even though I liked it.


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## Sir Foxx (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> For once, VPX is not at the center of a controversy. Quite refreshing I must say.



Don't worry, we'll get back to VPX soon
   j/k


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## I Are Baboon (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Var *_
> Dont try to jump on their balls to redeem yourself.



Please leave my balls out of this.


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## Var (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> I'm not dodging anything.
> 
> IMO, I feel the others were "warned" ahead of time....
> ...



This may suprise you, hon, but I'm not trying to hurt you.  Nor do I need to "check myself".  I call things as I see them and you were bagged and ruined your reputation.  Seeing as this is a "forum", you shouldnt be suprised that people will voice their opinions ad nauseum.


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## Var (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by I Are Baboon *_
> Please leave my balls out of this.


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## Var (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> LMAO! Just don't jump on mine. It would hurt too much. Just grab them



I'm not grabbing anything unless there are free samples of supps in it for me!


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## ZECH (Apr 12, 2004)

Oh shit.....................I should have said who. I didn't delete that fast enough! That was meant for Babs.


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Oh shit.....................I should have said who. I didn't delete that fast enough! That was meant for Babs.






I'm coming "hon"


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## Var (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Oh shit.....................I should have said who. I didn't delete that fast enough! That was meant for Babs.


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## Rocco32 (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> 
> 
> I'm coming "hon"


Uh-hmmmm, excuse me Babs?


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## donescobar2000 (Apr 12, 2004)

I had those same thoughts Rock...


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 12, 2004)

oooppps .....Ummm....Care to join

DG, Rock is my IM hubby


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## Rocco32 (Apr 12, 2004)

Thats Right!!! And there will be NO joining!


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 12, 2004)

Okay...., I'm coming Rockie


btw --  Nice Avi...meeeoooww


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## Rocco32 (Apr 12, 2004)

Why thank you! I think it goes well with your Avi


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 12, 2004)

Hehee...


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## gopro (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> I recall you saying you thought they missed the boat on the Vanilla sunrise. Even though I liked it.



Actually I was not happy with either the vanilla and chocolate and made sure to say so. This actually suprised me considering how well they have done the Nectar Line.


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 12, 2004)

The only issue I had with Nectar, is foaming (which I stated).  I didn't have the foam if I stirred vs. shook.


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 12, 2004)

what dg was doing was not even in the same league as what BAbsie was doing!  Her posts were endless and even if some of these pro syntrax posts were true ( on of the best ones was the one about her just getting off the phone with her triainer and of how he gained 3 pounds and didn't change anything.... ) went way beyond normal conversation about the merits of a product.  

Every company sends out products with either the explicit or implicit aim of receiving good product placement or commentary on the boards.  Babsie's response was to become a full time unpaid shill for Syntrax.  the jury is still out on this unpaid issue. 

Topola made a fair comment in this thread  about how Prince would reprimand him about whatever issue Topola had with some supplement company.  meanwhile nothing was ever said to Babsie ON THE PUBLIC BOARD to tell her to either quit the posts about Syntrax or to at least tone them down, both in volume as well as frequency.

As this entire thread is now in the open chat category, fewer new members will get to see that all of the posts about syntrax are now suspect.  babsie posts will be there with no commentary anywhere near her posts that she essentially shilled and took forever to come clean.  

DG in my opinion didn't do a damn thing wrong.  Neither did Dale nor any of the other members who receive freebies.  

there is a huge difference in the scale of the offense.

MM


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by MarcusMaximus *_
> ( on of the best ones was the one about her just getting off the phone with her triainer and of how he gained 3 pounds and didn't change anything.... ) went way beyond normal conversation about the merits of a product.




This *IS* what my PT said.


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by MarcusMaximus *_
> meanwhile nothing was ever said to Babsie ON THE PUBLIC BOARD to tell her to either quit the posts about Syntrax or to at least tone them down, both in volume as well as frequency.




You act like I committed a crime ..........try putting yourself in other peoples shoes for once MM.  I now see I went "over board" but YOU have to understand something.  Take a look around the supplement threads.........how many posts do you see from new people asking about Swole, protein, etc......????  I replied to nearly EVERY one of them WHY????  Because I experienced that particular supplement.  I'm not going to comment on a specific supplement I have no clue about....sometimes I try to help out on that end and I find out VERY quickly I should stop trying to help, i.e:  Steroids.  I'm not for or against however I'm trying to learn in that regards.....I would like to try them out some day or even sooner than I'd like..............Point is........I feel bad I to have stretched the truth to my friends, however I thought if I told, this person would be upset with me.....my word is my word..........WE WERE ALL ASKED TO KEEP THINGS ON THE DL!!!!  I stuck to my word -Yet I shared my experience!   This is a learning experience for sure!    Keep in mind that if someone asks a question and I know an answer or how a supplement affected me or someone I know, KNOW that I will add my .02 and WILL recommend what has worked for me, just as others here I'm sure will share what has worked for them.


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## Rocco32 (Apr 12, 2004)

Regardless of what happened or who has hurt feelings, maybe it's time to move on now and either give Babs another chance, or just leave her alone. I understand the need to know the truth, but the truth is out there now and Babs has apologized, what more do you want? Let's just move on. "Can't we all get along"?


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## nikegurl (Apr 12, 2004)

again - there's a huge difference between not mentioning it and outright lying about it when asked (repeatedly).  and not only did you lie but you acted all morally outraged that anyone would question your integrity on this point.  how ironic when you were in fact lying.


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 12, 2004)

Really!!!

Thanks Rock


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> again - there's a huge difference between not mentioning it and outright lying about it when asked (repeatedly).  and not only did you lie but you acted all morally outraged that anyone would question your integrity on this point.  how ironic when you were in fact lying.



Okay miss I don't do anything wrong!!!  Why didn't you come clean before Thursday, huh?  i think you had your say Thursday!


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## nikegurl (Apr 12, 2004)

why can't you grasp the issue that has everyone so angry is the lying?


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 12, 2004)

I think that's what I just said in my journal and here.....Open the eyes darlin

I was asked not to say anything...I made a promise and stuck to it.  My word is my word...........My advice on the other hand was never a lie.

Look below, I wrote a little "disclaimer"


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## nikegurl (Apr 12, 2004)

actually you made lame excuses to the effect that they forced you to lie.  so much for personal accountability.


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 12, 2004)

NG, what ever!  Grow up too


you never did answer why you didn't tell everyone until Thursday about your free products.........


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## MarcusMaximus (Apr 12, 2004)

and the scale, degreee and depth of the lie.  

oh, so a kiss and a hug and perhaps a "there there hun, it's all better" is going to have negate 4000 posts?  at what point did the truth end and the lying begin?  and it seems clear to just about everyone that the little bit of truth ( the endometriosis ) was used in order to further the deception.   there's no remorse there at all.

you can accept her rock.  good luck,   keep your back to the wall!    hun


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 12, 2004)

MM  --  4000 posts weren't all syntrax.....there are games here, I had journals, I replied to other peoples journals, the IM competition.....etc......

you have to remember also I was once a NewB here with LOTS of questions.....I also posted many informational links....

Rock had even started a thread......everyone was pretty much whoring it up over there and on the threads.  I also have a thread I maintain in the general health section...

Oh and I assure you I'm female.


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 12, 2004)

Okay....i'm going home now.

If anyone has further questions feel free to send me a PM, I'll get to them in the morning....

Later
BAbs


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## Rocco32 (Apr 12, 2004)

I do accept her MM because I know what's it's like to make mistakes and to do wrong things. I've posted with Babs and did emails with Babs for a long time and she never once brought up Syntrax to me or gave me any reason to disbelieve her friendship. If you want to have hurt feelings and mistrust over this I don't blame you. But I think it's time for the punishment and accusations to stop. Babs has admitted and apologized. If you don't want anything to do with her anymore, fine. Move on with your life here on Ironmag and leave her alone. 

I really like EVERYONE involved in this drama on both sides, so I'm not picking sides or choosing over anyone. But Babsie will remain my friend and I hope people can just let this drop. I think it's gone on way to long now.


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## Jodi (Apr 12, 2004)

Apparantly nobody realizes that this secret product/feedback program has caused a BB  internet uproar.  This is a lot bigger than most of you realize.  If there was no lying and everything had been out in the open when asked things would be alot different here.


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 12, 2004)

had I known all "this" was going to happen, and I didn't make a promise, I would have told the world.  Hell, do you know how excited I was when I saw someone valued my opinion???  I thought it was great, I felt, "discovered."  As a competitor (seeing other females out there with sponsors) I thought this was my stepping stone to gaining a sponsor...which wasn't the case......I took it for what it was worth and I'm sure they took me as well.........not in a bad way of course.

I don't understand why "it's bigger than most of us realize?"  People have ways of marketing their product......The way I looked at it was pure marketing strategy.  Not my strategy, but how Syntrax went about marketing their new line

Through all of this, I've learned a lot.  I still like Syntrax products though.  The ones I have tried.  I cannot speak for which I haven't touched....but for the ones I have tried...I liked.

Again, I'm sorry.

and I really do have to leave work....gotta get laundry done.  I meant what I said though, you all can PM me if you have questions.


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by MarcusMaximus *_
> ( the endometriosis ) was used in order to further the deception.   there's no remorse there at all.



Before you try to talk about Endo, know what you're talking about and who is affects before you open your pie whole!!!!!


Oh and I forgot something........................hon


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## Jodi (Apr 12, 2004)

Now look who needs to grow up


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