# t3/clen, first time user



## Brandibeth (Oct 6, 2010)

Id like to get your thoughts on how to use the t3/clen. 

Im wanting to tone up. I know that you use t3 for 3 weeks and that clen should be used in 2 week cycles.

T3 is better in the morning on an empty stomach. and I have taken clen pills before, but never liquid.

Both will be shots. 

My diet is healthy and I thought that I would up the process by eating EXTREMELY lean for a week before taking it.

I'm new to it, so please be gentle when explaining your thoughts.


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## heavyiron (Oct 6, 2010)

T3 and Clen are oral medications not "shots"


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## cavtrooper96 (Oct 6, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> T3 and Clen are oral medications not "shots"



I think he meant shots from an oral syringe with product from a research chem facility for his rats. Atleast I hope so! IV and IM or even sub q no bueno. Either way he posted in the wrong forum


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## pyes (Oct 6, 2010)

t3 and clen are very harsh drugs. Have you ever considered an ECA stack?


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## pyes (Oct 6, 2010)

cavtrooper96 said:


> I think he meant shots from an oral syringe with product from a research chem facility for his rats. Atleast I hope so! IV and IM or even sub q no bueno. Either way he posted in the wrong forum


 

It's a she, not a he.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 6, 2010)

Yes I'm not talking iv. Liquid form Ive used with clen under my tongue, not T3.
Im not the type to be able to give myself a shot with a needle.
And I apologize if this isnt the right forum.


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## XYZ (Oct 6, 2010)

ECA is a MUCH better option.  Clen will make you tired, moody and give you massive heart palpatations throught the day.  T3 is a synthetic thyroid medication which you don't start and stop every 3 weeks.

ECA will give you the same results at half the price and half the sides, and you can buy it all OTC.


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## cavtrooper96 (Oct 6, 2010)

My bad. Her pic wasnt up when I replied and I didnt check.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 6, 2010)

Im already moody. lol


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## Brandibeth (Oct 6, 2010)

Would you explain more as to why ECA stack is better than t3/clen? Im not arguing the fact, just interested in knowing more.


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## cavtrooper96 (Oct 6, 2010)

Maybe not better per se but less sides and very effective.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 6, 2010)

Can you take these in your stomach?


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## aja44 (Oct 6, 2010)

Brandibeth said:


> Im already moody. lol



And if that is you in the avatar......HOT!!!


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## heavyiron (Oct 6, 2010)

the best way to run clen for a first time IMHO is as follows

1) One week prior to starting the clen take your waking temperature (have a thermometer beside the bed and take your temp before you get out of bed), average these and that is your average resting temp

2) Clen will increase this 0.5-1.0 degree Fahrenheit when it is in it's most effective range

3) start at 20mcg and increase by 20mcgs every 3-4 days until one of these things happens: a) Your blood pressure gets too high, b) the sides you are getting are too strong (this is a personal thing), c) your temperature increase 1.0 degrees F or more

if the sides are too strong then decrease dose by 10-20mcgs until tolerable

run 2 weeks on 1 week off

The second course start with the highest dose you could tolerate the first time. No need to taper up.

Most females should not need more than 100mcg's daily once the top of the pyramid is reached but there are variations on how individuals respond. I personally had to stop at 60mcg's daily.

First time T3 should be 25mcg's daily for the first week then increase to 50mcg's daily. Run T3 as long as you like.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 6, 2010)

no i like to post random pictures of girls who i aspire to be....lol... yes thats me and my beak. hahah


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## Brandibeth (Oct 6, 2010)

"3) start at 20mcg and increase by 20mcgs every 3-4 days until one of these things happens: a) Your blood pressure gets too high, b) the sides you are getting are too strong (this is a personal thing), c) your temperature increase 1.0 degrees F or more"

I took clen in liquid form before, and just put it under my tongue. I started small and then when I started to get a headache, Id drop it back down to the mcg before. That seemed to work. "tex" was a friend on an old blog when I took it and that's how I knew what to do. Do you you agree with this?


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## heavyiron (Oct 6, 2010)

Brandibeth said:


> "3) start at 20mcg and increase by 20mcgs every 3-4 days until one of these things happens: a) Your blood pressure gets too high, b) the sides you are getting are too strong (this is a personal thing), c) your temperature increase 1.0 degrees F or more"
> 
> I took clen in liquid form before, and just put it under my tongue. I started small and then when I started to get a headache, Id drop it back down to the mcg before. That seemed to work. "tex" was a friend on an old blog when I took it and that's how I knew what to do. Do you you agree with this?


 It seems like a crude way of determining dose since headaches can be caused by many things. I would check BP and body temperature instead.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 6, 2010)

"It seems like a crude way of determining dose since headaches can be caused by many things. I would check BP and body temperature instead. "

I started out at 40mcg, then upped it. Unfortunetly my body has always had a higher resistance to anything drug related. idk why. I was taking my temp and it wasnt rising, after a bit I told him that I wasnt sure I was taking enough, so he said as long as I monitored it I could up the mcgs. He said that my body would probably tell me when it was enough do to getting a headache and it actually did. I had zero side effects and lost 3% in body fat.


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## pyes (Oct 6, 2010)

ECA gives better and more consistent results, especially over the long term. Go with ECA. ECA= ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin Stack these 3 together for a potent fat burner. Nobody is "afraid" of clen...it is just that some people don't respond well to it, some people can't stand the side effects, and, its effects wear off after 2-3 weeks. ECAs effects actually get better over time. Some people actually stack ECA and clen (dangerous), or they cycle between the two. Over the short term, clen is more potent, but over 8-12 weeks, I feel ECA is superior. If you take clen & t3 or t4, you will lose weight, but if youer diet is not consistant, you end up gaining that weight right back and maybe some extra. clen is very short lived and you will be universally disappointed. Plus the sides are more risky...why stress your heart out if you do not have to with eca.


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## cavtrooper96 (Oct 6, 2010)

pyes said:


> ECA gives better and more consistent results, especially over the long term. Go with ECA. ECA= ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin Stack these 3 together for a potent fat burner. Nobody is "afraid" of clen...it is just that some people don't respond well to it, some people can't stand the side effects, and, its effects wear off after 2-3 weeks. ECAs effects actually get better over time. Some people actually stack ECA and clen (dangerous), or they cycle between the two. Over the short term, clen is more potent, but over 8-12 weeks, I feel ECA is superior. If you take clen & t3 or t4, you will lose weight, but if youer diet is not consistant, you end up gaining that weight right back and maybe some extra. clen is very short lived and you will be universally disappointed. Plus the sides are more risky...why stress your heart out if you do not have to with eca.



Amen to that!


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## returnofthdragon (Oct 6, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> run 2 weeks on 1 week off
> 
> The second course start with the highest dose you could tolerate the first time. No need to taper up.



Great info from HeavyIron. I just finished my first round of t3 and clen. When I took the week off, I took benadryl at night during the week off. I've read debate or not if this helps. Just in my own testing I feel it did. Heavy says don't taper up on the clen after time off. That's also what I had learned to do, but didn't work for me. If I didn't taper up for a couple of days, I would feel like crap. With the T3 tried taking it during different times and I preferred spreading it out. Maybe it didn't make a difference, but that seemed better for me.


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## XYZ (Oct 7, 2010)

ECA will also suppress your appetite to almost nothing.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 7, 2010)

Who is the fastest company on the website to get the Ephedra? I have the other.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 7, 2010)

Ok, you've changed my mind. Ill put aside the t3 for now. Great info.


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## XYZ (Oct 7, 2010)

Brandibeth said:


> Who is the fastest company on the website to get the Ephedra? I have the other.


 

Go to your local drug store and tell them you want to buy Bronkaid.

Take half of the caffeine tab and the full bronkaid, the asprin is optional as some suggest it extends the half life, it never did when I took it.

I would suggest taking it first thing in the AM on an empty stomach to asses your tolerance.  After a couple of days you can up the dose.  Here is how I used to run it.

1.  50mg Ephedrine / 300mg Caffeine - on an empty stomach before workout or cardio.
2.  25mg E / 200mg C
3.  25mg E / 200mg C
4.  25mg E / 200mg C

Don't take the last dose after 2-3pm you might have issues sleeping.  Spread the doses out every 3-4 hours.  Take a fiber supplement as well, that much caffeine might cause constipation.  Increase your water intake also, as caffeine will dehydrate you.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 7, 2010)

bronkaid otc? I go to walgreens and tried to look it up.


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## XYZ (Oct 7, 2010)

Brandibeth said:


> bronkaid otc? I go to walgreens and tried to look it up.


 

You usually have to ask for it and you have to show ID to get it.  You can only buy so much at a time.  I think it's about $5-7 per 24 tabs.  You can usually get two boxes at a time.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 7, 2010)

I called up there and asked, I should have done that before I posted. What caffeine pills should I get while Im there? I used to take hydroxy cut, but I wouldnt mind something cheaper.


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## XYZ (Oct 7, 2010)

No-Doz


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## Built (Oct 7, 2010)

Caffeine: whatever's on sale.


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## heavyiron (Oct 7, 2010)

Coffee is very high in antioxidants and cheap.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 7, 2010)

"Primatene is usually a little cheaper than Bronkaid, but it's only 12.5 mg Eph. HCl per pill. Bronkaid is 25mg Eph. Sulfate per pill. The only difference in the HCl vs the sulfate is the shelf life. HCl is something like 48-54 months to where the sulfate is only 36 months. I would have to say that the Bronkaid (made by Bayer) is the best deal for your _asthma_ needs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 "

I read that the hcl is better than the sulfate because:

Ephedrine HCl is approximately 82% ephedrine by weight.

Ephedrine sulfate is approximately 77% ephedrine by weight.

25 mg ephedrine HCl = 20.5 mg ephedrine

25 mg ephedrine sulfate = 19.25 mg ephedrine 


Is this true?


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## Marat (Oct 7, 2010)

It is more or less true, however, the differences between the HCl and sulfate forms are negligible.


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## returnofthdragon (Oct 8, 2010)

I get primatene from wal-mart, it's HCL and for about $8.50 you get 60 tabs of 12.5mg. I also get their equate "stay awake" caffiene 80 tabs of 200mg for about $3.50.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 8, 2010)

I picked up primatene and no doz this morning, around 3 ask me how Im doing. lol


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## Brandibeth (Oct 8, 2010)

"1. 50mg Ephedrine / 300mg Caffeine - on an empty stomach before workout or cardio.
2. 25mg E / 200mg C
3. 25mg E / 200mg C
4. 25mg E / 200mg C"

Is this in one day? The primatene caplets I have are 12.5. It basically takes four of them for the first go.


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## XYZ (Oct 8, 2010)

Brandibeth said:


> "1. 50mg Ephedrine / 300mg Caffeine - on an empty stomach before workout or cardio.
> 2. 25mg E / 200mg C
> 3. 25mg E / 200mg C
> 4. 25mg E / 200mg C"
> ...


 

Good God NO!  You need to work up to this, and I would suggest NOT doing this.  You probably weigh less than half of what I did when I did this.

Now that you bought the primatene you have to take two tabs instead of one - FAIL.

Like I posted earlier, you need to start with 25mg E and 100mg C first thing in the AM on an empty stomach.  SLOWLY increase the dose over the next 7-10 days.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 8, 2010)

I weigh 170 and 5'7"

Im not paranoid about saying my weight.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 8, 2010)

CT said:


> Good God NO! You need to work up to this, and I would suggest NOT doing this. You probably weigh less than half of what I did when I did this.
> 
> Now that you bought the primatene you have to take two tabs instead of one - FAIL.
> 
> Like I posted earlier, you need to start with 25mg E and 100mg C first thing in the AM on an empty stomach. SLOWLY increase the dose over the next 7-10 days.


 
Ok, still confused. Do I do that once a day, or 3 times a day?

With the clen, I took it once a day.


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## XYZ (Oct 8, 2010)

Brandibeth said:


> Ok, still confused. Do I do that once a day, or 3 times a day?
> 
> With the clen, I took it once a day.


 
I'm going to lay it out for you.

DAYS 1-3 100mg C / 25mg E - all in the moring on an empty stomach.
DAYS 4-6 200mg C / 25mg E - same as above.
DAYS 7-9 200mg C / 25mg E - all in AM / 3-4 hours later repeat.
DAYS 10-12 200mg C / 25mg E - 3 doses spread out every 3 hours.

If sides get to be too much, cut back.  If you can't sleep at night dose it earlier in the day or drop a dose completely.

You're going to feel warmer than normal and you need to drink water as C will dehydrate you.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 8, 2010)

as Quagmire would say

Giggity, giggity, giggity, giggity!


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## ZECH (Oct 8, 2010)

Brandibeth said:


> I weigh 170 and 5'7"
> 
> Im not paranoid about saying my weight.



Yeah, but it's about the boobs!


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## Brandibeth (Oct 8, 2010)

Considering that they are abnormally large, yes it has to be taken into account. And no if I tell you how big they are, Id never hear the end of it.


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## ZECH (Oct 8, 2010)




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## Brandibeth (Oct 8, 2010)

You're one of "those" guys I see. I love you baby, if you just let me stick the tip in arent ya.


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## ZECH (Oct 8, 2010)

LOL, no me love you long time~


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## Brandibeth (Oct 8, 2010)

Just as long as you dont stay the night... I have to get up early for work tomorrow.


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## Supermans Daddy (Oct 8, 2010)

I've been look'n at this thread , as always I offer NO suggestions just some information that may not have been mentioned 

1. there IS injectable Clen. Sometimes it is combined with Yohimbine and is used SUB Q as well as IM.It's actually pretty common and I would be shocked if one of the billions of sponsors here don't carry it.lol

2. Clen can be used and the sides controlled by using keto which not only helps receptors to remain active and open but also is said in some cases to lessen the "shake'n" side effects. In my case mega doses of B2 and aspirin seem to work with Clen but again that may just be me.

3.Yohimbine is also an option that works well when combined with Clen or an ECA .

4. ECA are a good choice but I think many have stated PERSONAL opinions about it bein a better choice than Clen. I have known MANY people who use BOTH as part of a fat burn'n cycle split'n each into 2 week runs and continue the cycle for 8 to 12 weeks. Clen is very useful compound and each person has different effects and results from different things.

5. There was an inject T3 called thyrogen. T3 doses that I've seen used and have experience with have been known to be successful in divided doses throughout a 12 hour period . Certain compounds have an effect on T3 levels
Drugs that can increase T3 measurements include:

Birth control pills 
Clofibrate 
Estrogens 
Methadone 
Drugs that can decrease T3 measurements include:

Anabolic steroids 
Androgens 
Antithyroid drugs (for example, propylthiouracil and methimazole) 
Lithium 
Phenytoin 
Propranolol 
T4 (thyroxine) and T3 are the main thyroid hormones. T3 is five to eight times as strong as T4 (taking into consideration that it's absorbed at a higher rate than T4), and it's biologically more active. T4 is like the food in your refrigerator, while T3 is like the food on your plate. You may wanna investigate Triacana as it is avery valid option.

6. you can find everything you need in bulk at Pure Bulk, Bulk Nutritional Supplements  and  Kalyx.com Natural Marketplace & More 

I hope this is not taken in any manner other than just post'n info. I just wish this to be useful.

Peace and Love


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## Brandibeth (Oct 8, 2010)

When I took clen, I dropped weight easily. And I was told that you can inject it, but I never did. I only dropped it under my tongue. A friend told me that you could take it in the stomach, although I would have a hard time doing that. And that along with t3..which ive never heard of... would make for a very sore tummy. Im trying the eca stack. I feel about the same as I did with phentermine. Not alot of shakiness. Im going to up it and give it a try of rtwo weeks, then if I dont like it, Ill move onto clen and t3.


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## returnofthdragon (Oct 9, 2010)

Brandibeth said:


> When I took clen, I dropped weight easily. And I was told that you can inject it, but I never did. I only dropped it under my tongue. A friend told me that you could take it in the stomach, although I would have a hard time doing that. And that along with t3..which ive never heard of... would make for a very sore tummy. Im trying the eca stack. I feel about the same as I did with phentermine. Not alot of shakiness. Im going to up it and give it a try of rtwo weeks, then if I dont like it, Ill move onto clen and t3.



Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe you anything you would take orally would also be safe to inject. You can buy clen in liquid form that's made to ingest orally and different clen made to inject into your body fat, not into your stomach. You can also buy clen in pill form. I've used albuterol in liquid oral form with good success and clen in pill form with good success. I'm currently using ECA and I love it too. I have less sides with ECA, but I do like how clen has a much longer 1/2 life. Witht t3 the only negative side I experience with it was being hot. This was annoying, but it was effective. It was also in the hottest part of the summer with temps over 100 most days. I think I would like it even better in the fall and winter. You can use t3 alone or with clen/eca. I have heard that at high doses it helps your body "eat" muscle and people recommend aas. I don't know what dose would not cause that.


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## lucky_slevin (Oct 9, 2010)

So my chicks about to take her first cycle of T3/Clen with the addition of 10cc of winny..
She been a personal trainer for about 5 years now.. She's in great shape, hard body and cut but doesn't feel comfortable with her weight... She's running about 140lbs but let me tell you it consists mostly of muscle mass... I don't know her body fat but can also tell you that she does have a few places on her bod that could lose a little... She very cut and defined but not to the point of satisfaction..
I've read the other threads and have a pretty good unerstanding on how she should take a T3/Clen cycle but wanted to know if any of you could tell me how she should do so with the addition of winnny.
Any positive feed back would help...


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## MDR (Oct 9, 2010)

Stole this post from CT earlier in the thread.  He is laying out how to run an Ephedrine/Caffeine cycle.  Might be a better way for her to go, safer and more effective.  Some swear by T3/Clen, but I think this would be a better route.  Check it out and see what you think.  


I'm going to lay it out for you.

DAYS 1-3 100mg C / 25mg E - all in the moring on an empty stomach.
DAYS 4-6 200mg C / 25mg E - same as above.
DAYS 7-9 200mg C / 25mg E - all in AM / 3-4 hours later repeat.
DAYS 10-12 200mg C / 25mg E - 3 doses spread out every 3 hours.

If sides get to be too much, cut back.  If you can't sleep at night dose  it earlier in the day or drop a dose completely.

You're going to feel warmer than normal and you need to drink water as C  will dehydrate you.


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## heavyiron (Oct 9, 2010)

gentjosh1 said:


> So my chicks about to take her first cycle of T3/Clen with the addition of 10cc of winny..
> She been a personal trainer for about 5 years now.. She's in great shape, hard body and cut but doesn't feel comfortable with her weight... She's running about 140lbs but let me tell you it consists mostly of muscle mass... I don't know her body fat but can also tell you that she does have a few places on her bod that could lose a little... She very cut and defined but not to the point of satisfaction..
> I've read the other threads and have a pretty good unerstanding on how she should take a T3/Clen cycle but wanted to know if any of you could tell me how she should do so with the addition of winnny.
> Any positive feed back would help...


 10cc of winny?

Do you mean 10mg?

Just run the T3 and Clen like I stated earlier in the thread. Adding the winny will make a BIG difference.


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## theCaptn' (Oct 9, 2010)

geranamine is an ephidrine mimic . . . not as effective IMO, but a good legal substitute


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## lucky_slevin (Oct 10, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> 10cc of winny?
> 
> Do you mean 10mg?
> 
> Just run the T3 and Clen like I stated earlier in the thread. Adding the winny will make a BIG difference.


 
I meant a 10ml bottle of winny... What kind of defference will it make? Will she still see results if she uses it while she's cycling the T3/clen? If so how should she cycle it with the T3/clen?


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## Built (Oct 10, 2010)

Is she planning to pin the winny or drink it? In either case, what dose?


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## lucky_slevin (Oct 10, 2010)

Built said:


> Is she planning to pin the winny or drink it? In either case, what dose?



She's going to pin it... Just wasn't sure how she should dose it. Should she add it into her T3/clen cycle and if so how many cc's a week should she take?


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## lucky_slevin (Oct 10, 2010)

Built said:


> Is she planning to pin the winny or drink it? In either case, what dose?



I forgot to say she got a 10ml bottle at 50mg/ml...
Also, should she run an ECA stack on her off weeks or is that just too much??


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## Built (Oct 10, 2010)

Well, men pin what, 50mg daily? That's one ml of your solution. If I had this to use, I'd use 1/10 of that - 5mg daily. She can use a child's insulin pin to pull 1/10 of a cc accurately. 

Oral dosing for winny is usually given as 5mg daily for novice females, although some go higher. 

You'll read more aggressive dosings elsewhere, I'm sure. I tend toward conservatism. Maybe drop Sassy a PM, she's very knowledgeable and I trust her judgment with these things.


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## heavyiron (Oct 10, 2010)

gentjosh1 said:


> I meant a 10ml bottle of winny... What kind of defference will it make? Will she still see results if she uses it while she's cycling the T3/clen? If so how should she cycle it with the T3/clen?


 The winny will help her add LBM and protect her from losing LBM from the T3. Most gals can comfortably use 10mg daily. This would be a very small inject daily.


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## lucky_slevin (Oct 10, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> The winny will help her add LBM and protect her from losing LBM from the T3. Most gals can comfortably use 10mg daily. This would be a very small inject daily.



Thanks for the response heavy... 
So could you possibly give me a full breakdown on how she should cycle the T3/clen and winny?


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## heavyiron (Oct 10, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> the best way to run clen for a first time IMHO is as follows
> 
> 1) One week prior to starting the clen take your waking temperature (have a thermometer beside the bed and take your temp before you get out of bed), average these and that is your average resting temp
> 
> ...


 


gentjosh1 said:


> Thanks for the response heavy...
> So could you possibly give me a full breakdown on how she should cycle the T3/clen and winny?


 
The above I posted on page 1.

10mg winny every day for 8 weeks.


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## heavyiron (Oct 10, 2010)

gentjosh1 said:


> Thanks for the response heavy...
> So could you possibly give me a full breakdown on how she should cycle the T3/clen and winny?


 You may also want to listen to this.

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/a...t-4th-1-pm-pacific-time-females-steroids.html


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## tennfan (Oct 10, 2010)

dont know wut ur ultimate goal in this is, but if it is for prep, theres some stuff u can get called helios, its a clen hcl/yohimbine hcl blend injectable subq that does wonders for spot reductions and overall.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 11, 2010)

That sounds like something I need to research as well.


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## unclem (Oct 12, 2010)

^^^try research kynoselen and amp5 and l-carnitine for spot injects as well. it works but it can be hit and miss on the l-carn, but kynoselen or amp5 will shred u up. no shit. its vit, minerals, aminos working together to give the weight loss for sure. but if your needle phobic then forget it.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 12, 2010)

Im not necessarily needle phobic, I just cant give the injections myself. Somebody above had t3/clen and winny together. I didnt think you would cycle that stuff together. Arent they all the same? I would think that doing all those would burn your body out.


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## heavyiron (Oct 12, 2010)

Brandibeth said:


> Im not necessarily needle phobic, I just cant give the injections myself. Somebody above had t3/clen and winny together. I didnt think you would cycle that stuff together. Arent they all the same? I would think that doing all those would burn your body out.


 You have no clue what you are talking about. I suggest you forget drugs and focus on dieting and cardio.


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## Built (Oct 12, 2010)

Why cardio, HI?


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## heavyiron (Oct 12, 2010)

Built said:


> Why cardio, HI?


 Seems like a good place to start for dropping body fat instead of Clen, T3, ECA stacks, anabolics and everything else she has posted about.


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## Built (Oct 12, 2010)

I'd hardly recommend cardio for fat loss; I'm totally with you on the diet and drug-ditching fronts, though.


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## heavyiron (Oct 12, 2010)

Built said:


> I'd hardly recommend cardio for fat loss; I'm totally with you on the diet and drug-ditching fronts, though.


 You don't do cardio???

Cardio after weight training is standard for fat loss. We must not be communicating well because that is completely unexpected coming from you.


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## Built (Oct 12, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> You don't do cardio???
> 
> Cardio after weight training is standard for fat loss. We must not be communicating well because that is completely unexpected coming from you.



No, I don't often do cardio. I'll go for a walk or a hike; I CAN do some, and I'll occasionally do interval work or complexes, but not regularly. When I want to lose weight, I rely on diet for the deficit. Cardio just doesn't burn enough, and in women, often overstimulates appetite. 

I was a fat jogger for twenty years. It overstimulated my appetite and I blew up to 170 lbs and 40% bodyfat by the time I was 38 years old. 

I lost - and kept off - the fat when I figured out how to diet, and started lifting weights. My weight at any given time has now been of my own choosing since 2001.


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## heavyiron (Oct 12, 2010)

Built said:


> No, I don't often do cardio. I'll go for a walk or a hike; I CAN do some, and I'll occasionally do interval work or complexes, but not regularly. When I want to lose weight, I rely on diet for the deficit. Cardio just doesn't burn enough, and in women, often overstimulates appetite.
> 
> I was a fat jogger for twenty years. It overstimulated my appetite and I blew up to 170 lbs and 40% bodyfat by the time I was 38 years old.
> 
> I lost - and kept off - the fat when I figured out how to diet, and started lifting weights. My weight at any given time has now been of my own choosing since 2001.


 Have you ever tried a keto diet with cardio/training? I find eating carbs is a huge cause of hunger due to insulin spikes so when a female does keto they tend to be less hungry.


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## Built (Oct 12, 2010)

I eat keto most of the time. I have since 2001 - it's the only way I can keep my appetite under control and keep the weight off. 
I haven't had much motivation to try doing much cardio on keto since I have no trouble keeping my weight down through diet, but I do find walking to be agreeable under any dietary paradigm. I do walk a fair bit - just not in any organized fashion. 

Let me make a distinction here, okay? For moderate fat-loss, cardio is not necessary AT ALL. 
As a modality for heart-health, do a little cardio. Go for a 20-minute walk three times a week. Done. 
For stubborn fat-loss, to get contest-lean, I can't imagine getting away without doing SOME cardio, but most of us aren't trying to become contest-lean, and the OP is not yet at this point. 

In general, I don't recommend cardio as a fat-loss modality for anyone with more than 10 or 20 lbs to lose, particularly women given its effect on our appetites. It's not necessary, it may not be particularly safe or comfortable (YOU try jogging with an extra 20 lbs pounding on small feet and angled hips!), it can promote bad habits ("I just ate a cheeseburger but I'll just go for a jog later to get rid of it") and if you get the diet working from the start of a cut, you can bring in a little cardio later on to keep things going. If you start with cardio, you train the body to become efficient right up front and this can be a disaster for long-term weight control. As I said, I speak from experience.


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## XYZ (Oct 12, 2010)

Built said:


> No, I don't often do cardio. I'll go for a walk or a hike; I CAN do some, and I'll occasionally do interval work or complexes, but not regularly. *When I want to lose weight, I rely on diet for the deficit*. Cardio just doesn't burn enough, and in women, often overstimulates appetite.
> 
> I was a fat jogger for twenty years. It overstimulated my appetite and I blew up to 170 lbs and 40% bodyfat by the time I was 38 years old.
> 
> I lost - and kept off - the fat when I figured out how to diet, and started lifting weights. My weight at any given time has now been of my own choosing since 2001.


 

EXACTLY.  Why spend time on a treadmill when you can do supersets or giant sets along with metabolic work and be done with it?


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## Built (Oct 12, 2010)

CT said:


> EXACTLY.  Why spend time on a treadmill when you can do supersets or giant sets along with metabolic work and be done with it?


Or better yet, just do a few low-rep heavy squats, deads, cleans, chins and bench and just eat a little less.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 12, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> You have no clue what you are talking about. I suggest you forget drugs and focus on dieting and cardio.


 
Hence my asking all these questions. 

I am focusing on diet and cardio, as well as weights and educating myself. Which is the purpose of my posting in the first place.


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## XYZ (Oct 12, 2010)

Built said:


> Or* better yet, just do a few low-rep heavy squats, deads, cleans, chins and bench* and just eat a little less.


 
Unfortunately, that doesn't work for me.  Giant sets of 4-6 reps followed by a different movement at 8 reps and then the last movement at 10-12 reps works wonders for me.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 12, 2010)

BTW, since I do ask these questions, if you havent read, I have changed my outlook on what Im doing. I was asking a general question about the differences. Right now with Builts advice, I have started a different approach to my diet and will not be taking the t3/clen/winny for awhile, or if any at all.


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## Built (Oct 12, 2010)

CT said:


> Unfortunately, that doesn't work for me.


Doesn't work in what sense - you don't drop weight?   





CT said:


> Giant sets of 4-6 reps followed by a different movement at 8 reps and then the last movement at 10-12 reps works wonders for me.



Are you starting from "very lean" or from "juicy, post-bulk"?


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## XYZ (Oct 12, 2010)

Built said:


> Doesn't work in what sense - you don't drop weight?
> 
> Are you starting from "very lean" or from "juicy, post-bulk"?


 
I drop weight but not a quick, and I HATE dieting.  I also get more vascular by doing super sets / giant sets.  I usually start this at 10% and can get down to 5% doing this with cardio at only 3 times a week for 56 mins a session.


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## heavyiron (Oct 12, 2010)

Built said:


> No, I don't often do cardio. I'll go for a walk or a hike; I CAN do some, and I'll occasionally do interval work or complexes, but not regularly. When I want to lose weight, I rely on diet for the deficit. Cardio just doesn't burn enough, and in women, often overstimulates appetite.
> 
> I was a fat jogger for twenty years. It overstimulated my appetite and I blew up to 170 lbs and 40% bodyfat by the time I was 38 years old.
> 
> I lost - and kept off - the fat when I figured out how to diet, and started lifting weights. My weight at any given time has now been of my own choosing since 2001.


 Glad it works for you. The vast majority of trainers would incorporate cardio with dieting so you are likely in the minority on this one.


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## heavyiron (Oct 12, 2010)

CT said:


> EXACTLY. Why spend time on a treadmill when you can do supersets or giant sets along with metabolic work and be done with it?


 Cardiovascular health is just one reason for cardio.


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## Supermans Daddy (Oct 12, 2010)

Please forgive me for interjecting but if I may humbly say

To me ( just to me bein one who makes a live'n from make'n weight) it almost seems like you two ( Built and Heavy) are talk'n bout 2 different thins.

Cutt'n weight
Lose'n weight

They both TOTALLY different concepts and each have different techniques and effects

Heavy, You seem to be explain'n some of the cut'n theory
Cut'n is use'n extreme cardio and resistance exercises to reduce top layer fats and water. Commonly used by fighters to make weight but also to get rid of excess water from skin to avoid face cuts. You can lose crazy weight this way 20 lbs in a day or 2 is not uncommon. Cut'n weight is NOT permanent, not even good for a day if you vary anything . Not healthy, not something for someone seek'n permanent weight loss.

Built , you seem to be explain'n weight loss, calorie reduction, controlled carbs, increase protein from metabolism increase.Proper eat' habits to change not the body but also a change of lifestyle.Exercise and very moderate Cardio. Those things require a bit more time but are very keepable once you and your body adjust. 

I do think that Cardio is important though for way more than weight control.Helps keep the heart healthy and you can't beat that.

Again this is just how it seemed to me .If that made no sense just overlook it please.lol


Peace and Love


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## Built (Oct 12, 2010)

CT said:


> I drop weight but not a quick, and I HATE dieting.  I also get more vascular by doing super sets / giant sets.  I usually start this at 10% and can get down to 5% doing this with cardio at only 3 times a week for 56 mins a session.


Ah, gotcha. I hate dieting too. In heaven, we will eat for bulking to cut. 


heavyiron said:


> Glad it works for you. The vast majority of trainers would incorporate cardio with dieting so you are likely in the minority on this one.


Trainers for competition, sure. To get contest-lean, sure. 

For a fat chick trying to drop bodyfat - bad idea. I have yet to meet ONE person who has exercised off the weight and kept it off for any appreciable length of time. The FIRST thing I'd recommend is diet. The second is learning how to lift heavy weights. Waaaaay down at the end would be cardio. 



heavyiron said:


> Cardiovascular health is just one reason for cardio.


Yep. And that's why I keep my weight down and lift weights. Both have been proven to benefit heart-health. There's a surprising amount of cardiovascular conditioning that comes from lifting weights. The same cannot be said of cardio with regard to strength conditioning. 

The OP wasn't asking about heart-health; she wants to lose weight. These are hardly mutually exclusive, but you see my point here. 



Supermans Daddy said:


> Please forgive me for interjecting but if I may humbly say
> 
> To me ( just to me bein one who makes a live'n from make'n weight) it almost seems like you two ( Built and Heavy) are talk'n bout 2 different thins.
> 
> ...



S-diddy, that's about right. I kinda tried to touch on that earlier. Thing is, the OP is currently 5'7" and 170 lbs. That's what I started at after all those years as a fat jogger, so I'm suggesting she does what I did to drop the weight, since I was fat for a long time and finally figured out what to do - and it sure as heck wasn't "more cardio"!


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## XYZ (Oct 12, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> Cardiovascular health is just one reason for cardio.


 

I agree but, when you're taking 10secs (timed with a stop watch) between different movements and 90 secs. between sets you'd be shocked at how hard your heart gets beating.  

I still do 3 days at 56 mins a session.


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## Brandibeth (Oct 12, 2010)

Question then... I was reading in an article where a girl, instead of working out 5-6 days a week only did 3 days a week. She would combine cardio, interval running, core training and weights in those 3 days, sometimes 4. Typically working out only every other day. It showed using wieghts "till failure", other stuff not. Is it harder on your body to try and squeeze all this stuff in 2 1/2 hours 3-4 days a week, or should you workout 6 days a week spreading it all out. Right now I run about 1-2 miles on treadmill then a class at the gym that does weights.


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## heavyiron (Oct 12, 2010)

CT said:


> I agree but, when you're taking 10secs (timed with a stop watch) between different movements and 90 secs. between sets you'd be shocked at how hard your heart gets beating.
> 
> I still do 3 days at 56 mins a session.


 I hear you. I have done some very high intensity weight training and it works well. However heart health is something we should all be interested in so I also incorporate interval cardio immediately post training.


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## heavyiron (Oct 12, 2010)

Built said:


> Ah, gotcha. I hate dieting too. In heaven, we will eat for bulking to cut.
> 
> Trainers for competition, sure. To get contest-lean, sure.
> 
> ...


 LOL @ you being so anti cardio...


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## XYZ (Oct 12, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> I hear you. I have done some very high intensity weight training and it works well. However heart health is something we should all be interested in so I also incorporate interval cardio immediately post training.


 

Of all types of cardio, that is by far the best!

Fish oil, red yeast rice for me.


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## Built (Oct 12, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> I hear you. I have done some very high intensity weight training and it works well. However heart health is something we should all be interested in so I also incorporate interval cardio immediately post training.



Heart health is indeed important. That's why I'm glad I lift weights. 




heavyiron said:


> LOL @ you being so anti cardio...



This is news? You have to be the only one here who doesn't know this. I fucking HATE cardio. I do very little, and if I could do less, I would. 
I even published an article called "How to do cardio if you MUST!" outlining my minimalist protocol:
"how to do cardio if you must" - Google Search


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## heavyiron (Oct 12, 2010)

Built said:


> Heart health is indeed important. That's why I'm glad I lift weights.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I had no idea you were such a quack =)

Seriously, I rarely read other forums so I didn't know how you felt about it. You are definately in the minority on this one. Even body transformation coaches (not contest prep) advocate cardio. But if it works great. However the OP states she is currently dieting and doing cardio so telling her to stop cardio is likely to make her blow up.


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## Built (Oct 12, 2010)

Not really.  Cardio doesn't burn very many calories, especially when women do it (less lean mass). She's doing a low carb diet. I lost my weight when I switched to low carb and ditched my jogging.


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## MDR (Oct 13, 2010)

When I gained weight after back surgery, I did low-impact cardio every morning for 45-60 minutes, six days a week. I was very out of shape after being inactive for months.  I ate a lean diet and trained with weights four times a week.  The weight came off pretty quickly, and then I switched to training more intensely with weights and doing cardio a few times a week, for about half as long.  High-impact cardio does not work for me too well.  I like to save that energy for weight training.  Mostly I like to hike or do something else outdoors.  I usually do this after my weight training.


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