# Ephedra getting attacked again.



## Fade (Oct 8, 2002)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Sean Riggins was 16-year-old athlete in
                  exceptionally good condition, but on September 2 he was so sick that he
                  couldn't play in a big game with his Lincoln, Illinois, high school football
                  team. 

                  Instead, he sat on the bench, suffering from headache and stomach pain, and later went home
                  to sleep. A doctor, the next day, said he had bronchitis and sent him home. But within a few
                  hours, Sean went into convulsions and stopped breathing. He died at a hospital of what doctors
                  said was a heart attack. 

                  "When my son passed away of a heart attack, I had no idea what to think," Kevin Riggins
                  testified Tuesday at a Senate subcommittee hearing. "He didn't smoke or do marijuana or take
                  drugs." 

                  But an autopsy showed that he did take Yellow Jackets, an herbal drug laced with the herb
                  ephedra, along with a kola nut extract which contains caffeine. The combination can cause
                  blood vessel constriction, a rapid heart beat, a sudden rise in blood pressure. 

                  And that's what killed Sean Riggins, Logan County Illinois coroner Charles Fricke told the Senate
                  Subcommittee. 

                  "The heart was racing so fast it could pump the blood," said Fricke. "It's our opinion that the
                  (heart attack) is consistent with the effects of ephedrine. No other problems were found." 

                  Sean's death was not the first caused by ephedra, a dietary supplement that is sold at service
                  stations and convenience stores as an energy booster and weight control product, said Sen.
                  Dick Durbin, D-Ill. He said Food and Drug Administration reports link ephedra to 81 deaths and
                  1,400 incidents of heart attack, high blood pressure and stroke. How many deaths has alcohol cause? It's still for sale. 

                  And, yet, said Durbin, the FDA still allows the herbal supplement to be sold. 

                  "We have seen a reluctance on the part of this administration to act to protect American
                  consumers from this product and I just can't understand it," he said. 

                  The FDA on Monday did stop imports of Yellow Jackets, e-mailing the Dutch operator of an
                  Internet site selling the pills that it is illegal to market dietary supplements as alternatives to
                  cocaine and other street drugs. 

                  Ephedra is an herb that is legal to sell as a dietary supplement -- popular for weight loss and
                  body building. But Durbin and some critics have asked the FDA to ban all ephedra products. 

                  One manufacturer, Metabolife International Inc. of San Diego, is now under investigation by the
                  Justice Department about claims by a company official that it had received no reports of
                  adverse health linked to its product. 

                  Lanny Davis, a Washington attorney representing Metabolite, however, testified that many
                  reports of dangerous side effects from ephedra are based on "unverified telephone calls." 

                  He said there have been 30 scientific studies showing that Metabolite's ephedra product "is
                  safe and effective" when used by adults as directed. 

                  The Yellow Jackets issue is separate, focusing not on ephedra safety but on illegal marketing. 

                  "There does not appear to be any legitimate use for this product," the FDA said in a warning
                  letter e-mailed to the Dutch operator of a Yellow Jackets Web site. 

                  "Consumers should not purchase or use these or similar products available through the Internet
                  or elsewhere," FDA Acting Commissioner Lester Crawford said. 

                  Riggins, in his testimony, said that students in Lincoln and in other small towns now can easily
                  buy ephedra-laced supplements, using them to stay awake, to get a "buzz" and to lose weight. 

                  "You can buy them at service stations, $1.50 for three pills," said Riggins. "These kids don't
                  realize it is a harmful drug. This herbal substance killed my son and I am afraid it will happen
                  again." 

                  Sean's mother, Debbie, said that "kids are the target" of manufacturers of Yellow Jackets and
                  other ephedra supplements. 

                  "They do it to get hyper so they can stay awake," said Debbie Riggins. "They will take several at
                  a time to keep them wired all day." 

                  She said the supplements are sold in flashy packages, stocked next to the cash register, and
                  kids have no problem buying them. 

                  Ephedra products have been banned in Canada. The U.S. armed services have ordered
                  ephedra products removed from military base stores where they were once sold. The National
                  Collegiate Athletic Association banned use of the supplement by student athletes and now
                  conducts test each year to enforce that ban. 

                  Dr. Ronald M. Davis of the American Medical Association said that based on reports of adverse
                  medical effects, his organization believes "the weight of available clinical evidence supports the
                  remove of dietary supplement products contain ephedrine alkaloids from the market." 

                  Bill Jeffery of the Center for Science in the Public Interest said Canada has classified ephedra
                  as a "Class 1 health risk" and that it is "beyond dispute that ephedra has triggered heart attacks
                  and death."


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## Leslie (Oct 8, 2002)

That is sad, but the one thing they never say is HOW MUCH the person took.....


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## Fade (Oct 8, 2002)

I read an article about 7 years ago where a kid took 40 25mg tabs and died. Then the article attacked ephedrine. Hmmmm if I take forty Benadryl pills will I die? Probably.


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## Leslie (Oct 8, 2002)

My point exactly. If these people are going to be stupid, then stupid things will happen. Its unfortunate, but what did they THINK was going to happen?


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## nikegurl (Oct 8, 2002)

the "studies" are so hard to judge.  one of the "ephedrine related deaths" happened when the person drove their car into a telephone pole.  surely a terrible thing and i'm not trying to be insensitive....but i'm thinking the telephone pole was more the cause of death than the ephedrine found in their system.

(again - it never said how much so maybe that's the issue)  the info is so poorly reported and documented....


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## Duncan (Oct 8, 2002)

Ephedrine is the plague of the 21st century.

Anyone have a cigarette?


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## irontime (Oct 8, 2002)

Stupid fricken kids. I'm always hearing about idiots popping six pills, and you think they'd at least be smart enough to take an asparin with it to thin out the blood, but apparently that concept is too far out of reach.


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## Mudge (Oct 8, 2002)

So true, you can legally buy alcohol, cigs etc, but if you do anything to try and get in shape its like a holy war is waged against you.

UNCLE SAM WANTS YOU FAT, DRUNK, AND LOADED WITH SMOKES


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## irontime (Oct 8, 2002)

Instead of trying to ban it they would be helping a lot more if they would put out the dangers and have little warnings on bottles recomending an asparin with each dosage. That would stop the heart attacks.


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## Miss LeDix (Oct 8, 2002)

Wow! And I thought that we should all lead a healthy lifestyle by eating well and exercising effectively. I had no idea that a harmful thing such as Ephedrine was the key to my success! I'm so informed now... I guess I'll go pop some pills!


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## Miss LeDix (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Fade99 *_
> I read an article about 7 years ago where a kid took 40 25mg tabs and died. Then the article attacked ephedrine. Hmmmm if I take forty Benadryl pills will I die? Probably.



Fade, I do not think this is a good comparison. People will not take forty Benadryl. Benadryl does not come with all sort of promises like increased energy and weight loss. Yes, some people are gullible, but that does not mean that he is an idiot for taking the ephedrine. Like I said, I don't think your comparison has very much merit.


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## Dero (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Miss LeDix *_
> Wow! And I thought that we should all lead a healthy lifestyle by eating well and exercising effectively. I had no idea that a harmful thing such as Ephedrine was the key to my success! I'm so informed now... I guess I'll go pop some pills!


Do I detect a certain sarcastic tonality in your post????
ML...Where have you been hiding?


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## butterfly (Oct 8, 2002)

I have to disagree MissL...

The point was that you would NOT take 40 Benedryls so why is the idiot taking 40 ephedrine???  

Only takes a little common sense.


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## Miss LeDix (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Dero *_
> 
> Do I detect a certain sarcastic tonality in your post????
> ML...Where have you been hiding?



Of course I was being sarcastic! 

I've been busy these days. I try to make an appearance every now and then!


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## irontime (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by butterfly *_
> Only takes a little common sense.


And that's where Miss L comes in

I have to disagree with you too Miss Dix, All supplements and pills can be harmful if overdosed, that's why there are warning's on bottles. If ephedrine is taken correctly (like once a day) then it can be very beneficial for bodybuilding, but if idiot kids are popping several at a  time just for a high, then it's a big problem. 

btw, if you are going to pop some ephy pills, take a caffeine and asparin with it, it does wonders


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## butterfly (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by irontime *_
> btw, if you are going to pop some ephy pills, take a caffeine and asparin with it, it does wonders


That's the 3rd time you've said that in this thread... guess you want us to make sure we don't forget


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## Miss LeDix (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by butterfly *_
> I have to disagree MissL...
> 
> The point was that you would NOT take 40 Benedryls so why is the idiot taking 40 ephedrine???
> ...



A young, impressionable person may take more ephedrine than is considered safe. A young, impressionable person may be under lots of pressure to lose wieght, or run faster, or play better or whatever. A person would not take 40 Benadryl to increase it's effect. But I do believe that some people would go overboard with the ephedrine. 

I don't like the stuff, I think it's dangerous.


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## butterfly (Oct 8, 2002)

If there is one reason why Ephedrine should be banned is that it causes Ephydic


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## irontime (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by butterfly *_
> 
> That's the 3rd time you've said that in this thread... guess you want us to make sure we don't forget


3rd time I said what? to take caffiene and asparin with it? Well, just in case I didn't say it yet, take caffiene and asparin with it.


*sniff* this shows that you really do love me and pay attention to what I say ........or you are just waiting for me to screw up again and slam me


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## butterfly (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Miss LeDix *_
> 
> 
> A young, impressionable person may take more ephedrine than is considered safe. A young, impressionable person may be under lots of pressure to lose wieght, or run faster, or play better or whatever. A person would not take 40 Benadryl to increase it's effect. But I do believe that some people would go overboard with the ephedrine.
> ...


Kids also get addicted to couch syrup... they take dangerous amounts to increase the effects... should we ban cough syrup or try to educate our youth better???

I'm not crazy about ephedrine either... I just don't want the government to stick it's nose in even more of my business.


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## irontime (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by butterfly *_
> If there is one reason why Ephedrine should be banned is that it causes Ephydic


Ya, I could never figure that out  you would think that something that makes your blood pump faster would be beneficial for it instead of taking away


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## Miss LeDix (Oct 8, 2002)

I've never been one to debate, so I'll just be quiet now. You know my opinion now. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. My main point is that we should put some of the blame on the manufactures of this product, and maybe you should have to be 18 to buy it or something. I do believe something should be done. 

http://www.ephedrine-ephedra.com/


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## butterfly (Oct 8, 2002)

That's the great thing about America, MissL... I totally respect your right to believe and feel whatever you want so long as you return the jesture


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## Duncan (Oct 8, 2002)

IT, the vasodilation which occurs with ephedrine products lowers the blood available for the big unit, ie.if you were to have a circulating system that is completely full with 3/8" tubing and then all of a sudden switch it to 5/8" tubing there would be unused volume in the tubing and thus, yur wang.


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## irontime (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by butterfly *_
> That's the great thing about America, MissL... I totally respect your right to believe and feel whatever you want so long as you return the jesture


I, however, am Canadian. And I will use my right to trash you and make you feel incompetent. 
Just buggin ya babe, we all have different opinions and that's a good thing, your's is wrong, but it's still a good thing
okay, i'll stop now.


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## butterfly (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by irontime *_
> *sniff* this shows that you really do love me and pay attention to what I say ........or you are just waiting for me to screw up again and slam me


damn... you figured me out!


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## irontime (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Duncan *_
> IT, the vasodilation which occurs with ephedrine products lowers the blood available for the big unit, ie.if you were to have a circulating system that is completely full with 3/8" tubing and then all of a sudden switch it to 5/8" tubing there would be unused volume in the tubing and thus, yur wang.


Okay, I can believe that, thanx Duncan


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## irontime (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by butterfly *_
> 
> damn... you figured me out!


Of course I did......so which one is it? The love me or slam me?


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## butterfly (Oct 8, 2002)

Why do little girls pick on little boys?


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## irontime (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by butterfly *_
> Why do little girls pick on little boys?


Because they want to get laid?


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## butterfly (Oct 8, 2002)

Close enough


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## ZECH (Oct 8, 2002)

The Feds have been looking for an excuse for awhile now to ban ephedra. Now they have it! And wait....PH'S are not far behind I promise!!(DG makes note to stock up!)


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## Fade (Oct 9, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Miss LeDix *_
> 
> 
> A young, impressionable person may take more ephedrine than is considered safe. A young, impressionable person may be under lots of pressure to lose wieght, or run faster, or play better or whatever. A person would not take 40 Benadryl to increase it's effect. But I do believe that some people would go overboard with the ephedrine.
> ...


It's only dangerous in the hands of retards.

I've taken ephedrine for 12 years. I take it before my workouts. I'm fine. Why? Because I don't OD on the stuff.

If we took away everything that "young impressionable people" abused what a boring world this would be.


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## naturaltan (Oct 9, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by butterfly *_
> 
> That's the 3rd time you've said that in this thread... guess you want us to make sure we don't forget


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## Mudge (Oct 9, 2002)

I'm sure they will move all insulin's to controlled substances/prescription only too eventually.


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## KataMaStEr (Oct 9, 2002)

Another stupid kid and all have to pay for it. ANYTHING you abuse you will have some consequences. Abuse alcohol you will die, smoke 2 pack of cigarettes a day you will die from some kind of disease. Shiat why don???t they try to make alcohol and smoking illegal. Teens also smoke and drink. I can name a person in top of my head who died in a car accident b/c he was drunk and I can name another handful that have been involved in some kind of accident b/c of drinking. So now one kid die from a supplement and they try to make it illegal. This is Bullshit


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## animal56 (Oct 9, 2002)

Hi, my name is Animal56, I'm Canadian, I'm an Ephedrine User.

Thank you.

*takes a seat after a smattering of applause*


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## Mudge (Oct 9, 2002)

Yep, hypocrisy unfortunately, it seems almost any supplement related to "getting in shape" is at risk of being banned, but getting fat is no problemo.


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## Fade (Oct 10, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by animal56 *_
> Hi, my name is Animal56, I'm Canadian, I'm an Ephedrine User.
> 
> Thank you.
> ...


Hi Animal56.

My name is Fade, and I took ephedra and caffine this morning.


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## Redsol1 (Oct 10, 2002)

THis whole issue comes down to personal and parental responsability. There are directions and warnings on EVERY ephedra product i've ever taken. these include the dosing regeim (how many X times a day) and the MAXIMUM SAFE DOSAGE. let me say that again, Maximum Safe Dosage . i've never seen a product that did not have this data on it's packaging. the package also states not to take this product if you have a heat condition, thiroid problem, ect. Alcohol and tobaco have made it this far with much less specific waring lables and intake sugestions.

Also, don't try to tell me that these parents didn't know there kids were taking something. When i have kids if they want to lift, i'll help them. if they want to take sups, i'll monitor what they are taking and how it affects them. Even if i wasnt' working out i would make damn sure i know what's going in there mouth. 

Oh, i forgot!! the kid in the first post, the football player, i read that artical. He had NINE TIMES THE DAILY SAFE DOSAGE of Yellow Jackets in his system, and he did play that night. it wasn't untill the second quarter he started fealing ill.

Bottom line, stupid kids and irresponsable parents.

La'
   Redsol1


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## ZECH (Oct 10, 2002)

What did I tell ya??? There was a bill introduced yesterday to ban all Prohormones!!!


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## ZECH (Oct 10, 2002)

http://msn.espn.go.com/gen/news/2002/1009/1443414.html


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