# Intermittent Fasting



## kyoun1e (May 17, 2009)

I'm currently on UD2 and absolutely love it. It's a diet meets the perfect workout routine for optimizing fat loss while maintaining if not gaining some muscle. 

It's fantastic, but it's somewhat of a bitch. Very detailed and rigorous. While I'd like to do this forever, it's difficult to fit into one's lifestyle.

Lyle MacDonald of UD2 seems to be a big fan of Martin Berkhan's "intermittent fasting" approach. These two approaches seem to share traits, but this fasting approach seems like it's easier to fit into your life -- 2 phases (16 hour fasting followed by 8 hours of eating).

Curious if anyone has tried this?

P-Funk...I've seen that you're dabbling in fasting.

This approach intrigues me. And if it's anything like UD2 I'd be super interested.

Thanks.

KY


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## the7zen (May 17, 2009)

Yeah the intermittent fasting is kinda easy to fit into one's life style, I follow the Eat Stop Eat - 24hr fasting every 3 or 4 days. I started in Feb and so far it seems to be working good .
P-Funk has posted some very good info on this, you should check the thread Battle of Diets - Part 1.
read from here  ....http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/diet-nutrition/98683-cutting-six-pack-6.html


PS: I also just bought the Lyles Rapid Fat Loss Handbook, want to shed some fat quickly and then go back to IF for maintenance.


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## P-funk (May 17, 2009)

yea, i have been doing it.  it has worked great so far and I am loving the results i have had with it.

patrick


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## kyoun1e (May 17, 2009)

It sounds easier that's for sure...eating three big meals during an 8 hour period.

What is annoying about UD2 though is probably it's greatest strength -- if you can stick to it, and basically "do what you're told," you're going to get results. It's all laid out there for you.

My biggest question with IF is the structure, if there is any. I understand there are macro requirements, but I don't know that there are specific workouts tied to your workout and non-workout day intake.

P-Funk...are you using this for fat loss or muscle gain? 

I'm eying this post UD2 (4 weeks left + 2 weeks of maintenance) so I can either just enjoy my summer more or because I want to start a slow bulk at my new bf level.

KY


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## Built (May 17, 2009)

You can bulk on UD2.0 as well. 

I kinda do the IF thing - I try to not eat at all until I've been up for about 3-4 hours, then eat only protein and fat meals until around training time, when the rules suddenly change. I'm doing it out of comfort - any small recomposition benefits are a welcome perk, but I'd do it anyway, so long as it wasn't deleterious to my progress. 

Read up on it and let us know what you end up doing.


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## Built (May 17, 2009)

Here's a nice summary: Patrick D's Training Journal: Intermittent Fasting


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## kyoun1e (May 17, 2009)

Built,

Thanks much. I'm definitely in the investigation phase right now with IF just as I was with UD2 a couple months ago.

Much kudos to juggernaut on guiding me through UD2. He's been a great help.

As for UD2 bulk, I can't seem to run into anyone who speaks to the "mass version" of UD2 as passionately as the fat loss version. The fat loss version works so damn well, I'm shocked that I haven't run into more advocates. You'd think it would be so damn easy post regular UD2 -- just up the damn calories on days 1 -3 and 6 and 7!

As for IF, I historically don't get too hungry until around noon anyway so I could easily see an "eat window" from 2 pm - 10 pm and then a fasting window from 10pm - 2pm. No biggie. Almost seems too easy. 

I need to look into this, but I'm thinking summer could be the perfect time to experiment with something like this...unless I'm so damn excited about UD2 results that I quickly turn to the mass version.

KY


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## Built (May 17, 2009)

I think the easiest way to do it would be to up the calories on days 6 and 7. You could still potentially control fat gain by leaving the rest of the days as they are.


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## P-funk (May 17, 2009)

kyoun1e said:


> It sounds easier that's for sure...eating three big meals during an 8 hour period.
> 
> What is annoying about UD2 though is probably it's greatest strength -- if you can stick to it, and basically "do what you're told," you're going to get results. It's all laid out there for you.
> 
> ...



At first I did it 2x's a week (24-hour fasts) to see what it was like, after checking out the Eat-Stop-Eat book by Brad Pilon.  I dropped 8lbs in 5 weeks.  So now I just do one 24-hour fast every week and then eat normally on the other days.

I am not using it for either fat loss or muscle gain, as I have no physique goals (only goals of strength and performance), so I mainly do it because I feel pretty good when I do it once a week, I want to try it out after checking out the book, and it has really changed my body composition (which is an awesome plus, even though I don't have physique goals).

patrick

Patrick


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## Yanick (May 17, 2009)

I do a form of IF I guess, although I have yet to do any real reading on it (unemployed and broke = no money for books). I basically fast for about 12-14hrs/day for the very simple reason that I then get to eat 3-4 big meals in a very short time period. This works for me as I am trying to shed some unwanted pounds and eating like a woman. It just feels nice to eat 800kcals before bed, feels like a feast. I don't go by any strict guidelines, instead, like Built, I just put breakfast off for a few hours after waking to bunch my food closer together. First few days to a week my body was getting used to it and I'd get a hunger pang or two but I would just drink a glass of water and it would go away. I'm at the point now where I almost have to remind myself to start eating because if I wait too long, it gets to where I have a tough time getting all the kcals in for the day (I never thought I'd say that while in a deficit).


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## Built (May 17, 2009)

Isn't that part just awesome? I am SO glad I got the hell away from breakfast! Worst habit I ever developed.


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## kyoun1e (May 18, 2009)

Do you get used to stuffing your face in the "eating window?"

I've had trouble in the past trying to eat enough to bulk. I just can't force that food down my throat. I can't imagine sucking 3,500 calories in over the course of 8 hours.

IF seems really loosey goosey. Unless more details are coming out in the book, it doesn't sound like there is a specific workout routine tied to this? 

That's what I love about UD2 - specific diet meets specific workouts. No room for ambiguity.

KY


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## P-funk (May 18, 2009)

I don't stuff my face in the "eating window".  You should just go back to normal eating.  It isn't about pigging out and gording yourself!  It is about not eating for 24-hours and then just starting your feeding like you normally would.

patrick


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## kyoun1e (May 18, 2009)

So depending on your objective, do you set any daily caloric or macro goals?

I'm so used to counting everything on UD2 I find it unimaginable to just...well...eat until I'm full.

KY


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## P-funk (May 18, 2009)

kyoun1e said:


> So depending on your objective, do you set any daily caloric or macro goals?
> 
> I'm so used to counting everything on UD2 I find it unimaginable to just...well...eat until I'm full.
> 
> KY



I don't.

I have counted calories and macronutrients for so many years that I know what it takes to maintain my body weight and I pretty much consistently eat the same types of meals day in and day out.  So, I just fast, and then go right back to my normal diet.

patrick


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## RoosterTX (May 31, 2009)

Decided to try a fast day. Started last night at 10:30.

I have felt hungry at some points today, but not like I am just dying to eat. 

I'll stop the fast at 6:30, simply because I want to get in a meal or two before bed so this doesn't end up being a 32 hour fast. 

I'm wondering why 24 hours?


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## the7zen (May 31, 2009)

RoosterTX said:


> Decided to try a fast day. Started last night at 10:30.
> 
> I have felt hungry at some points today, but not like I am just dying to eat.
> 
> ...



Its more practical, and according to the research the 24hrs mark is right in the middle of the maximum adaptation for fat burning.


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## Kevsworld (May 31, 2009)

I've never tried it, but you can't go wrong with anything Lyle McDonald has written.  He's the best as far as I'm concerned.


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## juggernaut (Aug 3, 2009)

not to pull up an old thread, but I am finding this stuff extremely useful and will be utilizing it on my vacation time next week. Patrick helped me understand it much more elaborately. This stuff deserves more light.


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## juggernaut (Aug 3, 2009)

Also, for some reason, this diet reminds me of the Warrior Diet.


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## irishteen (Aug 4, 2009)

If you fast for 24hrs will that burn your fat meaning that your BF% will decrease? Is it possible to still maintain your normal body weight whilst doing this or willl you have to give way for a bit of weight loss? 
I really want to decrease my bodyfat from 13% to about 8% but I dont want to lose any weight (70kgs).....
Any help is appreciated!!


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## tucker01 (Aug 4, 2009)

Just don't consume more calories then you expend.

As for the type of diet, that is personal preference, and what you can make a consistent commitment too.


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## Built (Aug 4, 2009)

irishteen said:


> I really want to decrease my bodyfat from 13% to about 8% but I dont want to lose any weight (70kgs).....



Yeah well, good luck with that... 

LOL - what you want is what we all want. You'll likely have to drop weight to drop fat though; it's not common to be able to gain as much in muscle as you drop in bodyfat.


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## juggernaut (Aug 4, 2009)

How does one set this up as far as macros go? Is it just what I am doing now, with a subtracted 20% less (for fat loss) inside of the 8 hour desired window?


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## danzik17 (Aug 4, 2009)

juggernaut said:


> How does one set this up as far as macros go? Is it just what I am doing now, with a subtracted 20% less (for fat loss) inside of the 8 hour desired window?



What do you mean?  As near as I can tell, you set up a diet where you eat at maintenance every day.  Then you choose 1-2 of those days to not eat at all.

Seems pretty simple


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## Right Hook (Aug 4, 2009)

Just wanted to add my comments to this thread:

1.  I like Mark's approach better then the 24 hour fast...particularly on workout days.  Which if you dont know is 16 hour fast followed by 8 hours eating that surrounds your workout.

2.  Lyle and Mark (as well as Alan Aragon and another guy) are working on a new project.  Not sure if it's a book or what but i'm extremely interested to see what they come up with.  If I remember right Alan was not a big fan of IF'ing so it's nice to see them sharing knowledge. 

I would not be afraid to use IF'ing on a cut.  I've used UD 2.0 with great results.


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## juggernaut (Aug 5, 2009)

I just picked up Eat Stop Eat from leangains.com to get a better idea of what this is all about.


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## Unreal (Aug 6, 2009)

Since I started skipping breakfast I have made my best gains. I have my first meal around noon, and my last meal around 8-9 at night. Workout around 4-5.


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## juggernaut (Aug 6, 2009)

I'm having a small dilemma, I generally workout at 5am in the morning. If I do that, and wanted to bring my 12 to possibly 15 hour fast to an end, yet wanted to eat at the start of 1pm, how would I go about my pre/peri/post workout nutrition? Jesus, my head kind of spun out of control from that thought.


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## P-funk (Aug 6, 2009)

juggernaut said:


> I'm having a small dilemma, I generally workout at 5am in the morning. If I do that, and wanted to bring my 12 to possibly 15 hour fast to an end, yet wanted to eat at the start of 1pm, how would I go about my pre/peri/post workout nutrition? Jesus, my head kind of spun out of control from that thought.



If you are fasting why are you worrying about pre and post workout nutrition?  There is none - you are fasting.

patrick


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## juggernaut (Aug 6, 2009)

P-funk said:


> If you are fasting why are you worrying about pre and post workout nutrition?  There is none - you are fasting.
> 
> patrick


I'm still training, am I not? Or should I do this on days where I dont train? Even if I only do a HIIT session and/or depletion style workouts?


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## P-funk (Aug 6, 2009)

juggernaut said:


> I'm still training, am I not? Or should I do this on days where I dont train? Even if I only do a HIIT session and/or depletion style workouts?



You can train during the fast.  I find it hard to do heavy strength work during fasting, so I don't perform fasting on those days.  I will do higher rep work, circuit training or my tempo work on fasting days though.

patrick


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## juggernaut (Aug 6, 2009)

how about Javorek Complexes on the days during the fast?


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## juggernaut (Aug 6, 2009)

Also, since I am eyeballing the timeframe of 8pm to 11am the next day as a 15 hour fast, does it matter if I have my cottage cheese and fats at 8pm or should I just have my typical 6pm dinner? Should I workout near the end of the fast with a basic depletion style workout and then start the feeding process again, post workout?  
I'm probably over-thinking this.


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## tucker01 (Aug 6, 2009)

yes very much over thinking if you are going by eat stop eat.


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## juggernaut (Aug 6, 2009)

got it.


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## P-funk (Aug 6, 2009)

you are really over thinking it!!!

Here it is in simple form:

1) Eat
2) Stop eating and don't eat
3) Do some sort of work during the period of not eating
4) Start eating again when the period of not eating is over


patrick


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## juggernaut (Aug 6, 2009)

Pretty damn simple. thx


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## juliasmith (Aug 10, 2009)

thanx for putting up the question......very informative


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