# nolva for weight loss for women/ weight loss for women?



## AvA182 (May 29, 2014)

i was researching a bit and found that nolvadex can also be used by women for weight loss? do any vets got any advice on that? also some advice on clenbuteral and albuteral i read albuteral is just as good with less sides and less of an anxiousness an shaking and what not. and any experience with osta rx for women? im asking all these questions for my girl shes looking to do a cycle shes trying to loose some body fat and tone up a bit. any advice is much appreciated thanks guys


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## Dannie (May 29, 2014)

Nolva can be used for fat loss in females. Especially during the last 6 weeks before the show. 20mg ed is sufficient. However Nolva will make hormonal anti-conception (pill, implant...) ineffective. 
Clen 20mcg ed, increase by 10mcg every 5 days or so until a dose of 80mcg is reached. Either 2 days on 2 days off or 2-3 weeks on, 2 weeks off.
Ostarine will help her retain muscle mass while dieting. 10mg ed will be sufficient for a female.


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## AvA182 (May 29, 2014)

Dannie said:


> Nolva can be used for fat loss in females. Especially during the last 6 weeks before the show. 20mg ed is sufficient. However Nolva will make hormonal anti-conception (pill, implant...) ineffective.
> Clen 20mcg ed, increase by 10mcg every 5 days or so until a dose of 80mcg is reached. Either 2 days on 2 days off or 2-3 weeks on, 2 weeks off.
> Ostarine will help her retain muscle mass while dieting. 10mg ed will be sufficient for a female.



 will albuteral be just as good as clen in results? it seems to be what im reading just was curious. what would be the best route of the 3 for her 1st time around?


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## Dannie (May 29, 2014)

AvA182 said:


> will albuteral be just as good as clen in results? it seems to be what im reading just was curious. what would be the best route of the 3 for her 1st time around?


In my and my girlfriend's experience Albuterol is nowhere as good as Clen.  If she follows the protocol I outlined in my first post she should not get any side effects. 
*I just want to make sure you understand the risk involved when using Nolvadex, it will make hormonal anti-conception ineffective. *
1-8 Nolva 20mg ED 
1-4 Clen 10, 10 ,10, 10, 10, 20 ,20 ,20 ... 80
7-10 Clen same as above
2 weeks off with very strict diet, preferably Keto to avoid any rebound and repeat the protocol if needed.

Osta is optional, perhaps she should try it for her next blast and see if she notices any difference. 
Either entire 10 weeks at 10mg ED or week 4-10 10mg ED


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## AvA182 (May 29, 2014)

Dannie said:


> In my and my girlfriend's experience Albuterol is nowhere as good as Clen.  If she follows the protocol I outlined in my first post she should not get any side effects.
> *I just want to make sure you understand the risk involved when using Nolvadex, it will make hormonal anti-conception ineffective. *
> 1-8 Nolva 20mg ED
> 1-4 Clen 10, 10 ,10, 10, 10, 20 ,20 ,20 ... 80
> ...



awsome thank man. as in anticonception with nolva u mean that birthcontrol wont work right? and im also reading a few posts telling people not to run clen at all either substitute for albuteral or do a sarm stack like osta/s4/gw i read up on all 3 and GW by itself seems great but if she wants to keep muscle mass to use the osta to recover i guess. and then after i read another post saying to add s4 but doesnt seem like its really needed if it only hardens the muscle...all depends on what she wants i guess tho but im just trying to findthe best way to go with the least supplement stack


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## Dannie (May 29, 2014)

Yes, anti conception means birth control.
It depends on her level of development. If she is just a regular gym goer wanting to get fit then osta is not even necessary. Howecer it also depends on her body predisposition whenever she can hold on to muscle or not. My partner is currently cutting, all natural just cardio, heavy weights and keto diet. She gains strength while loosing fat.  
Clen is perfectly safe to use at moderate doses. Start low and increase the dose by 10mcg every 5 days. 80mcg being the maximum dose. 
Have her run the protocol I've outlined. Take 2 weeks off and then run the same protocol with addition of osta.


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## heavyiron (May 29, 2014)

AvA182 said:


> i was researching a bit and found that nolvadex can also be used by women for weight loss? do any vets got any advice on that? also some advice on clenbuteral and albuteral i read albuteral is just as good with less sides and less of an anxiousness an shaking and what not. and any experience with osta rx for women? im asking all these questions for my girl shes looking to do a cycle shes trying to loose some body fat and tone up a bit. any advice is much appreciated thanks guys


Nolvadex may increase fat mass in ladies. I would use Osta and Clen instead. 

12-13 mg Osta RX is an effective ideal dose for ladies. 

Appl Radiat Isot. 1998 May-Jun;49(5-6):643-5.

*Body composition measurements using DXA and other techniques in tamoxifen-treated patients.

*Ali PA, al-Ghorabie FH, Evans CJ, el-Sharkawi AM, Hancock DA.
Department of Medical Physics and Radiotherapy, Singleton Hospital, Swansea, U.K.
*
Abstract
*
Tamoxifen is an anti-oestrogenic drug which is widely used in the treatment of patients with breast cancer. There is increasing interest in using the drug both for benign breast disease and as a chemo-preventative agent of the drug in women at high risk of breast cancer. Despite the fact that the acute side-effects of the drug are few, its agonistic and antagonistic oestrogenic effects are not fully known and may have some undesirable effects for patients treated with the drug for several years. A number of studies carried out recently indicate a varying degree of change in bone mineral content following treatment with tamoxifen. These studies concentrated mainly on bone mineral density measurements only and non of them reported the effects of tamoxifen on lean body mass and fat mass. In this study we measured lean body mass and fat mass in tamoxifen-treated females and a comparison group to determine the difference between the two groups. Twenty-six women receiving tamoxifen (20 mg/d) have participated in this study. The control group comprised 31 healthy women of a similar age. Total body bone mineral (TBBM) was measured using a dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry (DXA) (Hologic INV., Waltham, U.S.A.). Similarly, regional and total body soft tissue (lean and fat tissue) were measured using the DXA system. In addition to DXA measurements, percentage body fat (%BF) was measured using total body potassium counting (TBK), skinfold anthropometry (SF), infrared interactance (i.r.) and bioelectric impedance analysis (BIA). Results from DXA alone showed that there were no significant differences between the two groups for TBBM, regional and total body lean tissue mass. However, there was a significant difference between the two groups (P < 0.05) for %BF measurement. Similarly there was a significant difference between the two groups (P < 0.05) for %BF measured by other body composition techniques. *Although there is no other research reported on the effects of tamoxifen on %BF, this retrospective study indicates that tamoxifen may lead to increase in fat content in women who are subjected to this treatment. We conclude that this observation is probably related to the agonistic oestrogenic effect of Tamoxifen on body fat. *To our knowledge this deleterious effect has not been reported before and it should be taken into consideration when comprising different types of anti-oestrogenic drugs. Furthermore, patients should be warned about this side-effect when they are prescribed Tamoxifen therapy.*


PMID: 9569566 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

*http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9569566


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## AvA182 (May 29, 2014)

Dannie said:


> Yes, anti conception means birth control.
> It depends on her level of development. If she is just a regular gym goer wanting to get fit then osta is not even necessary. Howecer it also depends on her body predisposition whenever she can hold on to muscle or not. My partner is currently cutting, all natural just cardio, heavy weights and keto diet. She gains strength while loosing fat.
> Clen is perfectly safe to use at moderate doses. Start low and increase the dose by 10mcg every 5 days. 80mcg being the maximum dose.
> Have her run the protocol I've outlined. Take 2 weeks off and then run the same protocol with addition of osta.



why would osta not be necessary? thanks for all the info dannie


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## AvA182 (May 29, 2014)

heavyiron said:


> Nolvadex may increase fat mass in ladies. I would use Osta and Clen instead.
> 
> 12-13 mg Osta RX is an effective ideal dose for ladies.
> 
> ...



so your saying nolva isnt really proven then in loosing body fat? also whats your take on samrs like GW and s4 by themself or combined. also heard about that tripple stack with osta? clen probly seems the way to go i think tho...


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## AvA182 (May 29, 2014)

For as much as I know albuterol is a selective beta2 agonist, which will act exclusively on beat 2 receptors. 
Quoting wikipedia: "The tertiary butyl group in salbutamol (or albuterol) makes it more selective for β2-receptors. The drug is sold as a racemic mixture mainly because the (S)-enantiomer blocks metabolism pathways while the (R)-enantiomer shows activity." 
Also 
From T-MAG-- 

?I thought albuterol was almost not effective at all but it seems I was wrong: 

There's pretty compelling evidence that shows albuterol is just about as effective as clenbuterol at increasing anabolism, with one exception: Albuterol is effective at "clinically safe" doses (in man), and clenbuterol is not. In other words, in order to achieve an anabolic effect from clenbuterol, you need to exceed its safety limits (which is not necessarily dangerous or undesirable for us healthy bodybuilder types). 

On the other hand, albuterol, at clinically safe doses, increases whole-body protein content in rats by 20% in just three weeks! So it really does increase protein synthesis. 

Furthermore, there are several studies that show albuterol is effective at significantly increasing power output and muscular endurance in man. Additionally, albuterol is heart healthy, prevents muscle catabolism, and is a pretty darn good asthma medicine to boot. 

By all indications, albuterol should be effective for at least three to four weeks at increasing muscle mass before you need a week off from use. And from a personal experience, this bears out as well. I've had reasonably good success with albuterol, and I suggest anyone who has access to the drug to give it a try. 

I recommend 16 mg a day, taken in either two doses spaced 8-10 hours apart, or four doses spaced about four hours apart. Go on cycles of 3-4 weeks on, one week off. 

Be careful about stacking other adrenergic agonists, like ephedra, with albuterol. If you can tolerate the combination, go for it, but test it out first. The half-life of albuterol is about five hours, so if the doses are too frequent, there's a cumulative effect that could get the better of you, sending your heart into an arrhythmia that rivals the tempo of a hummingbird's wings. 

Just be aware that there are enormous tolerance differences between people. So start out slowly with minimal doses until you get a handle on how your body reacts to these compounds. 

And regarding aspirin, bag the idea of using it for anything other than pain control. Stacking it with stimulants is out of date and actually counterproductive.? 

I cnt seem to find another study that compared the anabolic effects of albuterol and clen with albuterol being the winner of the two.. Also alb is much safer than clen and much bearable to a user. I am currently on 24 mgs a day spread 8 mg x 3 times a day, and on 20-30 mg of tamoxifen citrate (am going to use it only for a week, although it isnt pct it's just a personal experiment) and DAMN it is working, i can even take a after dinner nap without probs, and I do drink a lot of coffee during the day, so yep I'd suggest albuterol (12-24 mgs), 1 mg of ketotifen fumarate before sleep , very low carb /ketogenic diet, with intermittent fasting (aka leanganis) and cardio, for the most amazing and fast fatloss I have ever experiences, nolva would also help but I am still researching on the subject, so I cant put my hand in the flame for this. Also I will probably try some metformin, but I am not entirely sure of its use. anyways these are my 2 cents.


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## AvA182 (May 29, 2014)

theres many other post saying albuteral is pretty much just as affective and safer whats your thoughts on that also heavy?


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## Dannie (May 29, 2014)

AvA182 said:


> why would osta not be necessary? thanks for all the info dannie


It depends on her level of development and ability to hold on to muscle while dieting.  If she has a tendency of loosing muscle tissue then osta will minimalize the muscle loss.
A little loss of size is normal when in carb depleted state.


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## heavyiron (May 29, 2014)

AvA182 said:


> so your saying nolva isnt really proven then in loosing body fat? also whats your take on samrs like GW and s4 by themself or combined. also heard about that tripple stack with osta? clen probly seems the way to go i think tho...


No, the study is saying Nolva is proven to INCREASE body fat in ladies. LOL!

Osta RX is awesome for gals. Its proven to add LBM AND reduce fat mass. Clen is highly effective when stacked with Osta Rx.


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## AvA182 (May 29, 2014)

heavyiron said:


> No, the study is saying Nolva is proven to INCREASE body fat in ladies. LOL!
> 
> Osta RX is awesome for gals. Its proven to add LBM AND reduce fat mass. Clen is highly effective when stacked with Osta Rx.



hahahaha ohhhh damn ya we dont want that lol. what about advice with GW do you know anything about it?


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## Dannie (May 29, 2014)

heavyiron said:


> No, the study is saying Nolva is proven to INCREASE body fat in ladies. LOL! ...


Nolva is is widely used by female body builders and bikini competitors. Perhaps the study would show different results if females were on a strict diet and exercise regime. 




> &#147;Anti-estrogens&#148;
> 
> 
> There are two classes of estrogen manipulators that often fall under the term &#147;anti-estrogens&#148;. The first are Selective Estrogen Receptor Manipulators (SERMs). The only current example out there is Tamoxifen Citrate (brand name: Nolvadex). This operates specifically on the ovarian-driven estrogen process. The second category that falls under &#147;anti-estrogens&#148; are Aromatase Inhibitors (AI&#146;s) that operate not on ovary-originating estrogen, but rather that resulting from aromatization (or conversion to estrogen) of testosterone. Examples of testosterones that convert are exogenous testosterones (anabolic androgenic steroids) such as Testosterone Propionate, Nandrolone Decoanate (&#147;Deca&#148, or Dianabol (&#147;d-bol&#148. There is also a natural source of androgen that converts to estrogen &#150; that produced by the adrenal glands, in both men and women. When women enter menopause and their ovary-originating estrogen is no longer produced, the only remaining source of naturally produced estrogen is that resulting from the adrenals. Examples of AI&#146;s are Arimidex, Aromasin and Letrozole. In practice, both these and Nolvadex, are all primarily prescribed as breast cancer treatment for post-menopausal women.
> ...


Source: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/threads/136316-Women-and-Drugs


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## heavyiron (May 29, 2014)

Dannie said:


> Nolva is is widely used by female body builders and bikini competitors. Perhaps the study would show different results if females were on a strict diet and exercise regime.
> Source: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/threads/136316-Women-and-Drugs





Yes, I'm aware of Nolva's widespread use and that article brother. Unfortunately the science shows Estradiol is needed for fat mobilization.


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## AvA182 (May 29, 2014)

Dannie said:


> Nolva is is widely used by female body builders and bikini competitors. Perhaps the study would show different results if females were on a strict diet and exercise regime.
> 
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/threads/136316-Women-and-Drugs



hmmm...


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## AvA182 (May 29, 2014)

heavy what about GW for fat loss?


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## heavyiron (May 29, 2014)

AvA182 said:


> heavy what about GW for fat loss?


I personally would not use GW501516. There's some evidence of the rapid onset of tumors in animal studies. Unfortunately unscrupulous salesman would have you believe there's no risk while they make money selling this product. 

At the end of the day you can spend money on a bunch of products or you can dial in her diet and training. Diet and training will drive the goal not Nolva or GW.


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## AvA182 (May 29, 2014)

heavyiron said:


> I personally would not use GW501516. There's some evidence of the rapid onset of tumors in animal studies. Unfortunately unscrupulous salesman would have you believe there's no risk while they make money selling this product.
> 
> At the end of the day you can spend money on a bunch of products or you can dial in her diet and training. Diet and training will drive the goal not Nolva or GW.



worrrrd diet is key an im workin on that lol. thanks for all the info guys


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## erj (May 29, 2014)

oooo awsome great info thanks guys


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## sassy69 (May 29, 2014)

I wouldn't recommend trying to suppress estrogen as "weight loss" protocol. Please keep in mind that competitors use it specifically to look a certain way on a certain day, and they fully expect to experience some rebound after their event. Nolva is NOT a maintenance protocol. This is not something that non-competitors really need to be messing with as it does upset the estrogen cycle and will stop flow for a while, or not. It isn't recommended to stay on it more the 8 weeks as longer term use, in the extreme, can lead to what the body interprets as essentially early menopause. That, in turn, produces a whole boatload of other issues that someone trying to "lose weight" does't need to deal with.  The female estrogen process is also incredibly resilient - nolva acts to basically fake out the estrogen receptors, shorting out part of the estrogen process. When you come off and the natural cycle gets itself sorted out, it can come back w/ a vengeance - sometimes what people call "estrogen rebound". Which can be fat / water gain, mood swings, etc. Again, people using it for competition prep are generally (or should be) prepared for some degree of rebound as they come back out of the extremes of competition prep. People who try to apply the same approach but expect to maintain the end result are usually unpleasantly surprised that it doesn't really work that way.  

As heavy mentions, it can also promote fat depositing. Generally speaking, fucking around w/ estrogen manipulation is very complex as each woman's levels and response are very different and not really "guaranteed" in terms of predicting results. Also mentioned is impact to birth control - steroids don't directly interact w/ estrogen production as much as jack up the overall hormone balance (and depending, may add more estrogen via aromtase), but nolva would be another flavor of hormone manipulation the body would be trying to interpret, on top of whatever hormonal birth control - so no real guarantees on how well the final result would work in the baby-making department. I've never come across any studies about effectiveness of BC in the presence of nolva, or steroids for that matter (I cant' imagine finding a doctor who would get authorization for such a study either). But generally speaking, women who compete either drop the BC (because it can promote water /fat retention itself) and default to backup methods (condoms, etc.). Or they will opt for a non- or minimally-hormonal method like an IUD. Another fun detail about using hormone manipulators (steroids or AIs/SERMs) is the potential promotion of yeast infections so good idea to include a decent probiotic / acidophilus if you use any of them.

My opinion is that clen might be useful to support an already well-established and producing diet / training / cardio / recovery protocol. None of these drugs are going to do all the heavy lifting if the basic foundation isn't already tight and consistent. Caveat on clen is that you need to do your dosing to levels you can handle (vs a dosing someone wrote down as your schedule) - IMO if you overdose and can't handle the shakes / tension headaches / etc., the stress on the body and impact to quality sleep negates whatever fat loss gains are retained.


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## AvA182 (May 31, 2014)

sassy69 said:


> I wouldn't recommend trying to suppress estrogen as "weight loss" protocol. Please keep in mind that competitors use it specifically to look a certain way on a certain day, and they fully expect to experience some rebound after their event. Nolva is NOT a maintenance protocol. This is not something that non-competitors really need to be messing with as it does upset the estrogen cycle and will stop flow for a while, or not. It isn't recommended to stay on it more the 8 weeks as longer term use, in the extreme, can lead to what the body interprets as essentially early menopause. That, in turn, produces a whole boatload of other issues that someone trying to "lose weight" does't need to deal with.  The female estrogen process is also incredibly resilient - nolva acts to basically fake out the estrogen receptors, shorting out part of the estrogen process. When you come off and the natural cycle gets itself sorted out, it can come back w/ a vengeance - sometimes what people call "estrogen rebound". Which can be fat / water gain, mood swings, etc. Again, people using it for competition prep are generally (or should be) prepared for some degree of rebound as they come back out of the extremes of competition prep. People who try to apply the same approach but expect to maintain the end result are usually unpleasantly surprised that it doesn't really work that way.
> 
> As heavy mentions, it can also promote fat depositing. Generally speaking, fucking around w/ estrogen manipulation is very complex as each woman's levels and response are very different and not really "guaranteed" in terms of predicting results. Also mentioned is impact to birth control - steroids don't directly interact w/ estrogen production as much as jack up the overall hormone balance (and depending, may add more estrogen via aromtase), but nolva would be another flavor of hormone manipulation the body would be trying to interpret, on top of whatever hormonal birth control - so no real guarantees on how well the final result would work in the baby-making department. I've never come across any studies about effectiveness of BC in the presence of nolva, or steroids for that matter (I cant' imagine finding a doctor who would get authorization for such a study either). But generally speaking, women who compete either drop the BC (because it can promote water /fat retention itself) and default to backup methods (condoms, etc.). Or they will opt for a non- or minimally-hormonal method like an IUD. Another fun detail about using hormone manipulators (steroids or AIs/SERMs) is the potential promotion of yeast infections so good idea to include a decent probiotic / acidophilus if you use any of them.
> 
> My opinion is that clen might be useful to support an already well-established and producing diet / training / cardio / recovery protocol. None of these drugs are going to do all the heavy lifting if the basic foundation isn't already tight and consistent. Caveat on clen is that you need to do your dosing to levels you can handle (vs a dosing someone wrote down as your schedule) - IMO if you overdose and can't handle the shakes / tension headaches / etc., the stress on the body and impact to quality sleep negates whatever fat loss gains are retained.



Ya shes takn u an heavys advise and shes goin with clen finally. I told her good girl lol


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## sassy69 (Jun 5, 2014)

AvA182 said:


> Ya shes takn u an heavys advise and shes goin with clen finally. I told her good girl lol




Good! Altho I think clen is overrated too.


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