# Amount of Carbs and fat when bulking?



## Bodferret (Oct 15, 2003)

As i hear so many different answers to this question, can someone with a little tad more experience than myself tell me? 

How many grammes of carbs and fat should be consumed per day when on a bulking phase. 

Now you might say why do you want to bulk as im already 210 lbs but i am solid and need to pack more on and obviously lose a little bit of the winter coat...lol
                                               ....cheers Bodferret

Also i am consuming around 450 grammes of protein a day, for the last 6 weeks, so i need to get an average number, so i can restructure my diet accordingly.


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## ZECH (Oct 15, 2003)

That depends on how many calories you want to consume a day.


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## Arnold (Oct 15, 2003)

Exactly, as well as the macro breakdown that you use: Protein, Carbs & Fat %'s.


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## Bodferret (Oct 15, 2003)

you see Prince a typical answer for a typical question!

Is my question not just that



> as well as the macro breakdown that you use: Protein, Carbs & Fat %'s.



OK LETS SAY 5000 CALORIES PER DAY AS IM BULKING ON A CYCLE. ANY MORE QUESTIONS  NOW LADS.


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## ZECH (Oct 15, 2003)

What macro breakdown do you want with those 5000 calories??


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## Arnold (Oct 15, 2003)

You could do 45% P, 35% C, 20% F

with that your total daily carbs would be 1,750 based on a 5,000 calorie diet.


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## ZECH (Oct 15, 2003)

Say you use 40/30/30...................
2000 calories would be from protein
and 1500 each from carbs and fat.
Depends on your food sources as to how many g you will get in these calories.


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## ZECH (Oct 15, 2003)

We have to stop doing this P!


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## Bodferret (Oct 15, 2003)

sorry Dg i dont get you mate what is the P! above.

Anyway i have posted my photos at the bottom so take a look. I dont know much about % of macros thaqt is why im asking you lot as im sure you know more than me. 

What is the normal.

Ok let say i only want to consume around 100 grammes of fat per day what should i work this out at and 450 grammes of protein. Really the answer i am looking for is this!

 Say i consume 600 grammes of carbs per day on a cycle is this too much for me or should i lower it?

I think thats what i was actually trying to ask but could not find the right words.....lol


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## Bodferret (Oct 15, 2003)

oh i get you if i am correct you are talking too Prince!!

so go on let me in on the situation...what are you both doing. 

You are a man of the law aree you not dg you can tell me....lol oath and all


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## ZECH (Oct 15, 2003)

P stands for Prince. We seem to be agreeing today! 
We can't actually tell you how many grams of p/c/f to take. If you break the calories down like I showed you, the #of grams of each will vary depending on your diet. If you focus solely on grams, your calories will be way off.


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## Arnold (Oct 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Bodferret *_
> so go on let me in on the situation...what are you both doing.



we both answered your question in about as much detail as possible, would you like for us to come over and prepare your meals?


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## ZECH (Oct 15, 2003)

BF, in other words, you have a lot of flexability. You can do this alot of ways. You just need to experiment and find what works for you. Now I know what Jodi goes through!


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## Skib (Oct 15, 2003)

damn, i'd explode if i ever tried to eat 5000 cals of clean foods in a day


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## Arnold (Oct 15, 2003)

same here, the highest I go is around 3,000


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## Skib (Oct 15, 2003)

my buddy told me his roomate is trying to go on some crazy power lifters meal plan which consists of 8000 cals a day!!!

i think he may have mixed up the numbers though because that just sounds ridiculous! his roomates a big boy but i swear that many cals will only get you fat...

however, my buddy also told me he put some chicken on the bbq one night, came back 10 minutes later and there were 4 jumbo sized burgers that his roomy had put on for himself to eat for dinner 

not too sure about this meal plan... sounds a little crazy to me!


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## Arnold (Oct 15, 2003)

does he want to get fat?


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## Bodferret (Oct 15, 2003)

phew you lads are hard work...it must be because ye are yanks and are still trying to find your heads...i ask one simple question ...How many carbs per day when bulking? and you are running to each other like lovebirds squabbling.


I will tell you this, i will find the info of one of my english boards and post it up for you , so you can gain a little knowledge of the pupil how about that.

I was not looking for exact to the gramme...all i was questioning was if i was consuming to many carbs thats all....dont reply to this just read it and weep...lol moderators you make me laugh..

Pure sarcasim Prince, if you feel up to the job just come over mate and prepare my meals...i think it would be full off MRP`S and protein and whey shakes maybe a tin of tuna here and there....lol

dg why are you worried about what Jodi goes through...well that girl knows her stuff. Keep your comments to those who give a f**k because you dont need to post if you dont have an answer. Thank you Boys dont forget the name....Bodferret


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## Skib (Oct 15, 2003)

squatters! get off me land!


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## Bodferret (Oct 15, 2003)

I FOUND THE ANSWER AND DO YOU WANT TO KNOW LADS IT WAS HARD BUT I GOT IT IN THE END...LOL

Maybe he should talk to you guys....lol 

Here you go make sure you print it out because it is knowledge you both obviously never had.

Macronutrient Breakdown
Here is the breakdown of macronutrient intake when bulking:

Protein- A lot of people drastically reduce their protein intake when bulking and it is true you do need less protein during bulking than you do when cutting. However, if you are training intensely you still need a lot more than most people. I would recommend at least 1g per pound of bodyweight. 
Carbohydrates- Carbs are very protein sparing and they give you energy to fuel your workouts, so you need a lot of them. Carbohydrates also increase your glycogen stores in your muscle cells. High muscle glycogen levels are associated with increased protein synthesis and anabolism. Carbs also stimulate a greater insulin response than any other macronutrient. An insulin spike after your workout has been clinically shown to increase your protein synthesis and recovery. Sugars elicit the greatest insulin response so consuming sugar after you workout can have a very anabolic effect. However this does not mean that you should eat sugar all day. I'm sure your asking yourself "why not, if sugar stimulates insulin and insulin is anabolic, why not try to stimulate insulin release all the time?" First of all hormones don't work that way. If you continually bombard your body with sugar it will react by decreasing its insulin sensitivity. Over a long period of time this can lead to type II late onset diabetes. (Obviously not good). Also, insulin is very anabolic but it is also the most fattening hormone in the body when it is over-secreted. The reason you can get away with a large insulin spike after your workout is because your body needs most of the calories you are giving it for muscle repair and glycogen storage. Because of this your body will most likely not store those calories as fat. During the rest of the day however you should try to stick with complex carbohydrates. I recommend consuming at least 2.5g-3.5g of carbs per pound of body weight. 
Fats- Fats are involved in hormone production and also have a protein sparing effect. About .3g-.4g per pound of bodyweight good fats are about all you need in the off season. I know a lot of guys that consume massive amounts of fat when bulking. My question is why? Your body can't do anything with the extra fat. If you are having trouble putting on weight take those extra calories and add them into your protein count for the day. If you are still having trouble making gains add more carbohydrates. They are both more usable by the body than fats and are more adept at helping the muscle building process. Only as a last resort would I add in extra fat.  

The end....


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## Bodferret (Oct 15, 2003)

So now i have the answer...

when you are 210lbs and bulking up you need 

1g           protein per lb bodyweight
2.5-3.5g  carbs per lb bodyweight
0.3-0.4g  fat per lb bodyweight


420g         protein as normal for me
525-735g  carbs 
63-84g      fat  

was not that hard now lads was it. Thanks for nothing...lol


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## hardasnails1973 (Oct 16, 2003)

and you want to bulk ..why not get big and lean at the same time.  For me there is not more bulking so to speak.  I rather stay at 6% and gain 15 lbs of lean muscle mass then gain 30 lbs of slop and water.   bulking is your BMR + activity levels and then add 250 caloires for 2 weeks ratios are 45 p 30 f  25c  ( taken mainly at breakfast pre and  post workout )  p/f taken out side post workout window


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## ZECH (Oct 16, 2003)

BF, that is not what you asked. You asked how many grams you needed. Not how many g/ per pound of bodyweight. We could have told you that. We did answer you. Sorry you were just to ignorant to understand.


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## Arnold (Oct 16, 2003)

what an ass wipe.


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## Mudge (Oct 16, 2003)

Those things are individual man, 5,000 calories as an example would bloat me all to heck, as would this talk of near 600g carbs    You have to discover what works for your own body through experimentation and keeping track of this in a log.


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## Arnold (Oct 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Bodferret *_
> So now i have the answer...
> 
> when you are 210lbs and bulking up you need
> ...



by the way this is not the answer, it's only an example, just as we gave you. 

I always recommend 1-2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight, bulking or cutting.


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## Bodferret (Oct 16, 2003)

Notice to Prince and dg
                                     ...listen lads i apologise for being an ass-wipe as Prince quite put it, to which i am some times and being ignorant as dg put it which i hold my hands up to.

All i can say it must be the gear...i hope you accept this apology lads...it must be pre menstrual tension.

Anyway this is what i was consuming 6 weeks ago and i have fine tuned it a little, but i was just asking a question , obviously i couldnt work it out and as Mudge said i have to experiment . Maybe i am taking this too serious as it is my first cycle and want to try and do it right.

I am a person for my downfall has to try and do it perfect which i know in this game doesnt come easy. As you both rightly explained you dont know me and all people are different.

Anyway i am training four times per week and i am on my 3rd week and have gone up to 221 lbs and feeling good for it. There doesnt seem to be much retention either as it is fairly tight and my clothes are shrinking or i am doing something right. I am taking 20mg nolva eod so there we go.

Just in case i Jeckyl it again i will apologise again....lads



If i calculated it right the nutritional value for my food and supplements was like this: 

Protein = 484.76 gr
carbs = 592.89 gr
Fat = 192.60 gr

total calories = 6235.8

07.30am 3 slices wholemeal bread
5 slices of Bacon (back) george foreman griller
1 glass of Orange juice

10.00am 1 1/2 scoops prolab whey in water
1 apple

10.30am 1 sausage premium meat (if this is true)...lol
50g mushrooms
1/2 tin heinz beans
1 tomatoe fried 
4 slices of thin cut bread
1 fried egg (done in water and oil)

13.30pm 125g wholegrain rice
1 peppered steak

14.30pm 1 1/2 scoops prolab whey in water
1 pint semi skimmed milk

16.00pm 3 scoops prolab whey in water

17.00pm 1 chicken burger (vacuum-packed) 

19.30pm 1 jacket potato (medium)
1 tin tuna (john west)
1/2 tin beans
25g natural yoghurt
10g cheese

20.30pm Train (Shoulders & Legs)

21.45pm 3 scoops prolab whey with water
1 apple and 1 banana

22.30pm 200g sirloin steak
150g pasta shells
25g natural low fat yoghurt

That was just as exhausting writing this as it was eating. Now maybe i am consuming to much foods but i dont want to lose any gains also. I dont feel bloated at all after this. Maybe sickened a little though...lol i am sure yous know about that feeling.

Take into consideration that i do heavy  work during the day.So i would burn more calories than the average joe bloggs.


Bodferret


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## Mudge (Oct 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Bodferret *_
> Anyway this is what i was consuming 6 weeks ago and i have fine tuned it a little, but i was just asking a question , obviously i couldnt work it out and as Mudge said i have to experiment . Maybe i am taking this too serious as it is my first cycle and want to try and do it right.



Far too many people think there is some magic number, "hey tell me what to eat already" but there isn't, what works for me doesn't work for other people and so on. So really diet is not only something time consuming to learn about in general, but you have to spend plenty of time getting to know what works for you specifically. Not saying you fall into this category, but this is where people have to do some work on thier own IMO, guidance is one thing but asking what calories and so on is kind of pushing it other than a general "try this and then taylor it to suit yourself."

People for example ask what they have to do to gain weight, well count how many damn calories you eat and be honest about it, and then raise the calories - how hard is that? But people are far often too lazy to even log what they eat, and if you do the see-food diet you are not even half assing it. *Write the stuff down and you have a way to track your own progress, tweaking it here or there should be pretty oblivious at that point.*


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## ZECH (Oct 16, 2003)

BF, from looking at your diet, I see very little good fat(Flax oil, fish oil-omega 3 &6's). I think it would benefit you to incorporate these into your diet. Stuff like bacon and sausage is almost all saturated. EFA's can actually help boost your metabolism.


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## ZECH (Oct 16, 2003)

Here are the numbers I get...........
protein...............485g...........1940 calories-31%
carbs..................593g...........2372 calories-38%
fat.......................193g..........1737 calories-27%
total.......................................6049 calories


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## oaktownboy (Oct 16, 2003)

screw the goddamn numbers..if u want it really simple eat every 2 hours...a mix of lean protein like chicken,turkey breast or tuna along with some complex carbs..oatmeal, brown rice, yams, sweet potatoes..and lots of water..oh yeah veggies like brocolli,carrots, whatever...is that good enough?


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## ZECH (Oct 16, 2003)

It is if you don't care what the outcome is.


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## oaktownboy (Oct 16, 2003)

it can get downright agitating trying to write down all the numbers down when u eat 8 times  a day...especially if they aren't packaged foods that give u the numbers...i just think the guy is making it harder for himself than it actually is


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## ZECH (Oct 16, 2003)

Probably so since he is bulking. But when you get to cutting for a contest, those numbers start to actually mean a lot when you try to find which macro works best for you!! You start to write down everything.


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## Mudge (Oct 16, 2003)

I think I'd fly to 270 right quick on 6049 calories a day, nearly all fat of course.


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## Mudge (Oct 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> It is if you don't care what the outcome is.



Exactly, random dieting is for people who are too lazy to learn the how and why of what makes thier body tick. I have said before I did the see-food thing, and I held entirely too much body fat that way.


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## Mudge (Oct 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oaktownboy *_
> it can get downright agitating trying to write down all the numbers down when u eat 8 times  a day...



Write it down and eat the same damn things every day, problem solved. Or write down a specific meal and what other meal combo you can seperate for it, and etc etc, make flashcards if you have to.


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## Bodferret (Oct 16, 2003)

Hello dg...
 nice to see you are still replying, thanks for the calculations there you are probably right about the calories some of them where hard like the vacummed packed chicken. Yes this is what i started off on. 
As i said i have looked at this and tuned it down , no more pork and vacummed packed foods.
Also i didnt put up my supplements, yes i do incorporate flaxseed oil concentrate tabs in my dietin the form of ,ALA, EPA and DHA acids but you mentioned omega 6 ,now i dont have that i must look into it .It works out @ 4000mg per day in the form of gelatin capsules.
I take milk thistle for the gear i.e d/bol , obviously flaxseed oil caps, multivitamins, vitamin C tabs 1000mg ed and 2 cod liver oil caps.

I have also included in my diet...
cottage cheese,
sweet potatoes,
corned beef,
salmon and haddock,
2 portions of veg each day,
3.5 litres of water per day,
sweetcorn for carbs.

In answer to your reply mudge i do lift steel all day and lay it for structural cages for foundations, so i am sweating like f**k everyday, so i would be burning a good third of this calorie intake. So the 5000 calories or so that i am consuming at the moment seems to be good for me as i use a lot in my workspace.

I will post my new diet up shortly when i work out my macros. I am thinking off going with 35%p 45%c 20%f until i finish the cycle....cheers again lads.


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## sentricyphen (Oct 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> If you focus solely on grams, your calories will be way off.



hey what did you mean by this?

i always count g's not cals


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## Bodferret (Oct 17, 2003)

sentricyphen....where is that posted m8


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## ZECH (Oct 28, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by sentricyphen *_
> hey what did you mean by this?
> 
> i always count g's not cals


Then how do know if you are getting too many or too few calories?? Do add the number of calories per g for everything you eat?


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## sentricyphen (Oct 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Then how do know if you are getting too many or too few calories?? Do add the number of calories per g for everything you eat?



Nope. When you figure out your chart, you do this:
say you want to eat 3000 cals.
and want to eat 40%-30%-30%.

just multply each % by the cals.

you get:1200-900-900

these are your cals.

to calculate grams simply divided the carbs by 4, protein by 4, and fat by 9;since thats the ammount of cals per gram of ea. macronutrient.


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