# Figure or bodybuilding?



## jaim91 (Apr 10, 2004)

There's a competition coming up June 5th through the Ontario Physique Association. I am almost 100% sure that I will compete. The problem is that at 5"7.5, 115 lbs, and 11.3% bf I don't know whether to go for figure or bodybuilding. I don't know if I am cut enough to go up against the middleweight women, but I don't know if I look like the models that enter the figure competition. 
Please help!


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## atherjen (Apr 10, 2004)

hmm how about posting some pics- that way youll get the best and honest opinons.

just from your stats alone, however, I would say that you dont carry enough LBM for bodybuilding yet.


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## Arnold (Apr 10, 2004)

Well, one thing I can tell you is female bodybuilding is dying quick!

My wife is doing figure May 22nd, and then June 26th she is going to do both bodybuilding and figure. 

She likes bodybuilding and wants to go out there and show her physique, flex, pose etc., so she insists on doing both. She says that with figure you just walk out there in a suit and do not get to show off your hard earned muscles and physique.


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## jaim91 (Apr 11, 2004)

Prince - If your wife is doing bodybuilding and figure, won't they penalize her for being TOO cut for the figure part?

Artherjen - I have 102 lbs of LBM. Won't they take that into account considering I am only 16?


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## JLB001 (Apr 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by jaim91 *_
> Artherjen - I have 102 lbs of LBM. Won't they take that into account considering I am only 16?



No, they do not ask you your lBM when your on stage.


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## atherjen (Apr 11, 2004)

thats right they dont take into account how long you have ben training or how old you are. you are just as equal as everyone else on stage.


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## Arnold (Apr 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by jaim91 *_
> Prince - If your wife is doing bodybuilding and figure, won't they penalize her for being TOO cut for the figure part?



absolutely not, at the show I competed in the gal that one the figure was shredded! she also one the overall.


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## Jodi (Apr 11, 2004)

You should post some pics so we could have a better idea.  However, I agree with Jen, it doesn't sound like you have enough muscle to compete in BB.  Besides if this is your first comp, you may want to stick with Figure until you've seen what BB is all about.


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## jaim91 (Apr 12, 2004)

I just want to be really muscular (but not masculine), but I'm am physically unable to put the weight on that I need to. I try the diets listed. I try junk food only. I try health food only. But I can't find an uneven balance between diet and trying that lets me gain. I think I still have a relatively small sized stomach, so it's not like I can pack in 3000 calories a day. 

It's not easy/convinient to get my bf tested monthly, so I won't know if my lbm goes up. I don't know if I'll ever know when/ if I'm ready to compete. Is it unhealthy for a 16 year old?


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## atherjen (Apr 12, 2004)

its actually very easy for you to get in 3000cals/day. I did EASY in high school being extremly active. there are many calorie dense nutritious foods. 
dont give up hope, it takes TIME and hard work to acheieve your goals. things dont happen overnight. give it time but dont give up if you are serious enough. 
and IMO yes at 16 it would be unhealthy to compete,perhaps not in figure, as you are lean already, but in BB diet is so extreme you just dont want to be dipping your bf% levels that low and limiting nutrition while you are growing.


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## Arnold (Apr 12, 2004)

this is not the best pic of her, but you can at least see her arm and quad.
http://www.photoreflect.com/scripts...hoto=01RS001Y040149&start=0&album=0&adjust=-1


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## jaim91 (Apr 13, 2004)

SO the FAME EXPO competition (takes place may 28-30 in Toronto) would not be a good venue for me to start. I mean, my bf is alread low...but I don't know if it would be high compared to all the other novice woman (that's the class I would be competing in).


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## Akateros (Apr 13, 2004)

You would probably find a wide range, from lean, nearly-shredded serious competitors to "my boyfriend thinks I'm hot so I put on this suit and came out" competitors who look like even the pink dumbbells would be too much for them.

At least, such have been my observations.

The Fame show is likely to be huge, though. You might want to start somewhere smaller, particularly since the Figure class always seems to be overflowing anyway.

In any case, it is _not so much about the numbers._ No one is going to be standing there with the calipers. "Ah! 8% BF. You're in. 10%. You're out." It is about your build, your muscle mass and maturity, your symmetry. And how you carry it on your frame, and how you prepare. You may look tight at a particular point, while your friend may need to drop more pounds -- or look just as tight even with a bit more fat hidden somewhere.

Not to mention, different federations and groups of judges reward different looks, in figure at any rate. Some like them so shredded they're pretty much bodybuilders in heels, while others penalize excess "cuts" as not looking femmy enough.

No offence, but why don't you listen to everyone who says "go to some shows and see"? Or "post some pictures and get opinions"? There are lots of other shows coming up in Ontario just now, and I think some links have been posted for you.

I mean, there's nothing to stop you from just doing it, but even to jump into it for shits and giggles is going to cost you a fair bit of cash.


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## BabsieGirl (Apr 13, 2004)

^so true


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## Arnold (Apr 13, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Akateros *_
> You would probably find a wide range, from lean, nearly-Not to mention, different federations and groups of judges reward different looks, in figure at any rate. Some like them so shredded they're pretty much bodybuilders in heels, while others penalize excess "cuts" as not looking femmy enough.



The exact problem they have had with female bodybuilding since the beginning.

From what I have seen with the NPC they apparently want the ripped looked with Figure.


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## jaim91 (Apr 14, 2004)

<quote>
There are lots of other shows coming up in Ontario just now
</quote>

I haven't seen any links for these. Can you please send them? i will take your advice and go to the expo before i compete in it. 
Thanks!


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## Akateros (Apr 14, 2004)

http://www.bao.on.ca/
http://www.jamor.com/
http://www.bodybuildinglive.com/
http://www.neutronsports.com/

Some promoters, some informational. All have event schedules in them somewhere.

Incidentally, I don't know if you are on the FAME mailing list, but you may find this interesting as well: I got a massmail from them this morning about a bodybuilding/figure/posing workshop this Saturday in Toronto. (April 17) Their site sucks, and I can't find where they've buried the details, but at least there's contact information. http://www.famecanada.com/reviews/show_review.php?review_id=5


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## chiquita6683 (Apr 15, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> The exact problem they have had with female bodybuilding since the beginning.
> 
> From what I have seen with the NPC they apparently want the ripped looked with Figure.



 Good Luck in your show, Prince!

The last few shows I've been to, the winners of figure have been ripped like a bb, just not as "big" and muscular as the female bb. so i guess they diet the same?

I choose to be a female bodybuilder of many reasons{i have a long way to go, in training}


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## Akateros (Apr 15, 2004)

Now here is an excellent resource. Not what I was looking for as I Googled, but interesting nevertheless.

A chart of all the different organizations holding Figure comps, and the different standards and requirements they look for, both in physique and otherwise.

http://www.ocbbodybuilding.com/id235.htm


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## Nina (Apr 16, 2004)

I am also toying with the idea of competing in figure, but I think my lower body is just too thick. There is a comp here in June- last year there were not a lot of competitors, so I think it would be a good first show for me. Just don't know.


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## Arnold (Apr 16, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Nina *_
> I am also toying with the idea of competing in figure, but I think my lower body is just too thick. There is a comp here in June- last year there were not a lot of competitors, so I think it would be a good first show for me. Just don't know.



just looked at your pics, great hour glass shape, with proper competition diet you can get your lower body lean!


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## Nina (Apr 16, 2004)

Those pics were from the end of last year (new year's eve to be exact!) I am a little leaner now, and will post new pics on Tuesday when I get them. I kinda feel like my upper half leans out twice as fast as my lower- To me, thighs, butt, and calves just look bad. (maybe I have body dismorphic disorder!) I have big calves- really big. We will be talking about it, and everyone is like "yeah right" until I show them- then they don't say anything!!


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## JLB001 (Apr 16, 2004)

sprints sprints and more sprints!


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## Nina (Apr 16, 2004)

Like running sprints? How long/far? How often? Is that for the whole lower half, or just my mutant calves? Ha-ha!!


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## JLB001 (Apr 16, 2004)

Suicide sprints and shorter distance sprints.   They shape the leg.  Something to do with the stopping and starting.  Augh...I can't find the thing I was looking for here at home, must be at work.   I was doing them 3x a week, doesn't have to take alot of time.  also bleechers work too.


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## Nina (Apr 16, 2004)

What are suicide sprints? How long (per session) do you do them?


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## JLB001 (Apr 16, 2004)

I'll post the stuff when I get back to work.  I have it all in my book there.


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## Nina (Apr 16, 2004)

Thanks!! I look forward to seeing it!! I can use all the help I can get!


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## JLB001 (Apr 16, 2004)

Suicide Sprints
warm up with a jog and strecth 10 mins

sprint squence:
sprint 10 yards then back peddle 10 yards, Imm. sprint 20 yards then back peddle 20 yards. go to 30 yards and then 40 yards all without stopping.  repeat this squence 3 times taking two mins. of rest between each set.
cool down: run 4, 100 yard sprints at 1/2 speed then stretch.


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## Nina (Apr 16, 2004)

Thanks! I will try it. I need to figure out the yardage though, I am terrible with distance!!


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## JLB001 (Apr 16, 2004)

find a high school football field....they have them already marked.


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## jaim91 (Apr 16, 2004)

Nina - if you're on a basketball court, it would be to the foul line and back..centre and back, other foul line and back, other baseline and back. 

Akateros - SOOOOO HELPFUL! I appreciate all the research you did. Unfortunately, I found out about the workshop too late (and it's $75 for three house), so I can't go. But I'm going to go to all the seminars they hold at the FAME EXPO. I hope to see some of you there!


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## Vieope (Apr 16, 2004)

_ Does it count if somebody is good looking for figure competion or the judge just look to the women from the neck down ? _


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## Nina (Apr 16, 2004)

Thanks! There is a high school right across the street from my gym, so I can use their field. Hopefully, these will lean down my legs!!


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## Nina (Apr 16, 2004)

Uhh- one more stupid question, which line is the foul line in a basketball court?


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## jaim91 (Apr 17, 2004)

lol, it's the black one about 5 feet long. It makes kind of a box surounding the basket


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## Nina (Apr 17, 2004)

Thanks! I will try it- there are indoor courts at my gym, so I don't even have to go across the street to the high school!!


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## jaim91 (Apr 18, 2004)

Also, burpees are really good to lean out your legs...and of course, the standars squats, lunges, sprints, etc.


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## Nina (Apr 18, 2004)

UHHH- another stupid question- what are burpees? I already do squats, lunges and leg press.


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## Nina (Apr 18, 2004)

ALso- I have seen before about running bleechers, but do you run every step? It has been a LONG time since I have been in some bleechers!!


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## Fitgirl70 (Apr 18, 2004)

Where are those new pics Nina?   I'm doing figure in October (NPC Heart of Texas) and I'm gathering ALL the information humanly possible


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## jaim91 (Apr 18, 2004)

I go every other one...A burpee...hmm...it's when you get in push up position, with you legs out kick them back in so you're in a squat...then jump up and reach your hands up as far as you can...then get back down in push up position and repeat...

Fitgirl - what are your stats? Are you ripped? There's been an ongoing discussion on this thread about whether they're looking for cuts in figure girls...


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## JLB001 (Apr 18, 2004)

Myself I think they are looking for a girl that has more cuts.  They aren't looking for the bikini model type girls at all.


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## jaim91 (Apr 18, 2004)

But not a sinewy, thin, bodybuilder girl, right?


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## JLB001 (Apr 18, 2004)

http://www.ftvideo.com/genex/results_04/jrusa/


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## Nina (Apr 18, 2004)

New pics will be posted after I take them on Tuesday. (Patience Danielson!) I will have to check out the bleechers and see if they have a rail- I have this vision of me slipping and knocking out my front teeth or something horrible like that!! And thanks for the info on the burpees.


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## MissOz (Apr 19, 2004)

Hey good luck nina...you'd be surprised how much your lower body leans up and sometimes doesn't show until the last 2 wks...I compete ( figure) and judge here in Australia for the ANB (Australasian Natural B/B ) my legs come up last last lucky last !!!!


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## nikegurl (Apr 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by jaim91 *_
> But not a sinewy, thin, bodybuilder girl, right?



are you sure you understand the difference between thin and lean?  bodybuilders should not be "thin".  it isn't all about being ripped - you have to have the goods (muscle!) AND be lean to display them properly (applies to figure and fitness too)


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## jaim91 (Apr 21, 2004)

Ahhh...(more or less) understood...but doesn't being ripped imply you have lots of the "goods"? I would love to compete, but don't know whether I'm thin or lean? What it the difference aesthetically speaking?


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## nikegurl (Apr 21, 2004)

muscle development is the difference.  you can diet down and be incredibly ripped but you won't place well if you don't have the muscle development.  first you build it...then you diet to reveal your hard work in the gym.  so to answer your question...you can be ripped and not have the "goods"

hopefully that helps a little


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## JLB001 (Apr 21, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by jaim91 *_
> Ahhh...(more or less) understood...but doesn't being ripped imply you have lots of the "goods"? I would love to compete, but don't know whether I'm thin or lean? What it the difference aesthetically speaking?


Have you ever heard the term...skinny fat people?  people that are skinny and have no muscle.  You don't want to compete being a skinny fat person.  Sometimes a skinny fat person can be very lean but you do not see any muscle tone or defination.


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## Akateros (Apr 21, 2004)

For another example of "ripped" without bulk, look at ballet dancers. They are not "skinny fat" by any means, yet they also strive NOT to build mass. Most ballet dancers are very, very lean, and you can see the muscle clearly -- but it tends to be long and sinewy, rather than bulky and defined as one would want in a bodybuilder.


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## JLB001 (Apr 21, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Akateros *_
> For another example of "ripped" without bulk, look at ballet dancers. They are not "skinny fat" by any means, yet they also strive NOT to build mass. Most ballet dancers are very, very lean, and you can see the muscle clearly -- but it tends to be long and sinewy, rather than bulky and defined as one would want in a bodybuilder.


To me ballet dancers are far from being skinny fat people.


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## nikegurl (Apr 21, 2004)

agreed.  but I don't think skinny fat people really explains how you can be "ripped" but devoid of necessary muscle to do well in figure or bodybuilding.  (since they're not ripped or even lean - just small)

ballet dancers and some marathon runners illustrate that idea well.  they are ripped - sinewy and defined but lacking the muscle development you'd need to do well in figure and bodybuilding.


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## Akateros (Apr 21, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by JLB001 *_
> To me ballet dancers are far from being skinny fat people.


Er, that's what I said. "Not skinny fat by any means."  That was my counter-example. NOT skinny-fat, but not bodybuilder material, either, despite being undeniably "ripped." And having obscenely low bodyfat percentages.


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## JLB001 (Apr 21, 2004)

I'm brain dead today.  Sorry.  Too much sugarrrrrrrrrr.


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## jaim91 (Apr 21, 2004)

So I want to build mass/gain weight, then work out to make a lot of muscle, then diet down so people can see my muscle. I wouldn't consider myself skinny fat (10% bf)...but I don't really know what I look like (image disorder of some kind...). And I certainly DON'T want to look like a ballet dancer.


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## JLB001 (Apr 21, 2004)

Ballet dancers have very graceful beautiful bodies!

I think we all have some sort of distorted image of ourselves.  We are always our own worst critics.


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## nikegurl (Apr 21, 2004)

i would think you want to build some muscle on your frame and gain as little fat as possible in the process.  you'll still need to diet before stepping on stage but it won't be as hard or last as long (the precontest diet)

now....i've never seen a picture of you of course but your stats (5' 7" 115lbs) combined with your age makes me think you do need to add muscle to your frame before stepping on stage.

and don't worry - at 10-11% bodyfat you definitely aren't the  "skinny fat" type.  you just need to build some muscle.


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## PreMier (Apr 21, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Nina *_
> ALso- I have seen before about running bleechers, but do you run every step? It has been a LONG time since I have been in some bleechers!!



Yes every step. 

p.s. They're called stadiums


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## jaim91 (Apr 22, 2004)

Thanks Nikegurl - I'm just scared that because of my fast metabolism, when I diet, I will lose some of the hard earned muscle. I mean, I don't know whether my bf will go down if I diet (i don't want it to), or whether my weight will drop substantially.


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## nikegurl (Apr 22, 2004)

I wouldn't worry too much about that now.  It sounds like you wouldn't have to diet very long at all.  For now I really think you should focus on building muscle for awhile instead of dieting for a competition.  I'm pretty sure I've told you this before but seriously....this isn't a negative.  You're off to a great start at a young age so you have plenty of time.  Try to enjoy the process - you're doing great.


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## Nina (Apr 22, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by PreMier *_
> Yes every step.
> 
> p.s. They're called stadiums




Ha-Ha- The high school by my house only has bleechers- I don't think what they have qualifies as a stadium!!


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## jaim91 (Apr 30, 2004)

Nikegurl, a question..."and don't worry - at 10-11% bodyfat you definitely aren't the "skinny fat" type. you just need to build some muscle. " - I have been told, and seen stats (according to Chris Cater's *I think that's her last name* article) that my bf is so low that I am tapping in my "reserve" bodyfat. Is it healthy for a 16 year old to have a bf of 10%? And stay there for a while?


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