# Help me choose my first "real" Cycle!!!



## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

OK, first off I have enough gear on hand to do 6 or 7 cycles. This will be my first "real" cycle. Long story short, I figured out I was low test 1 year ago, but suspected it a year or more before. I did a saliva test 13 months ago which showed low normal free test, but almost non-existant DHEA (stress from business, etc cought up to me, adrenal fatigue). 

In May I did dermacrine/S.A. with other Naty test boosters for 6 weeks. I've been on dhea since. I've put on 24lbs from Jan 1 to Dec 15 (at least 2/3ds muscle). I've been cutting for 1 month and I'm down 6lbs. In Sept I did some blood work and it showed test was 187, but everything else was normal. Even free test was normal. I've been putting off cycling to work with an Endo, but the first one was a douche working mostly with women and the second one had a bad rep, so yesterday I called in and said fuck it, I'll cycle and follow up in the summer.

Hopefully the long winded intro to this thread will prevent some stupid uninformed suggestions...

Goal; recomp, feel good! Cycles will be low dose and Zero of them will be test only so please resist the urge to recommend this. I've researched for more than 2 years, I've got a pretty good idea of the game plan, but nothing quite beats the experience of a vet.

Stats; 38, 5'8", 195lbs (was 203 4 weeks ago), 20% BF. Been trainning off and on for 22 years. Starting packing on the fat Lbs 5 years ago, which is probably when the natty test started to fail. I was 174 and could squat 315 for 5 reps. I wont go into the sob life story, but I was a wreck 18 months ago, could not squat the bar for 10 reps.

Bench 185X5 (my bench sucks), squat 265X5, deads 275X5, BB row, 185X5, overhead press 125X5.

What I have on hand.

90ml of Test E 250
50ml of Test C 300
75ml of Eq 250/300
10ml prop 100
50ml primo 100 (in the mail, 1 week dom)
50 X 50mg Var
PCT

Cycles in post 2...


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

Any of these cycles will do, I just want to know what the vets think . I'm not going to change the dose much of anything, no matter what the folks say...consider my goal...

The original cycle I wanted to do...

15 weeks
1-15 250mg Test E
1-15 400mg Eq
3-15 HCG (500iu/2)
1-15 10mg ED Aromasin
18 Triptorelin 100mcg
18-22 Igf-1 des
18-21 Clomid 25 ED
18-21 Sustain Alpha
18-21 Natty supps, Creatine, test busters.

Cycle 2

1-12 250 Test E or C
1-12 400 Primo
3-12 HCG (500iu/2)
1-12 10mg EOD Aromasin
18 Triptorelin 100mcg
18-22 Igf-1 des
15-18 Clomid 25 ED
15-18 Sustain Alpha
15-18 Natty supps, Creatine, test busters.

Cycle 3 (I just thought of it yesterday because I got a bonus vial of Prop in the mail), otherwise I was leaning towards cycle 2.

1-3 100 Test Prop EOD
1-12 250 Test E
6-12 50mg Var ED (split in 2 doses)
3-12 HCG (500iu/2)
1-12 10mg EOD Aromasin
18 Triptorelin 100mcg
18-22 Igf-1 des
15-18 Clomid 25 ED
15-18 Sustain Alpha
15-18 Natty supps, Creatine, test busters.

I think I'll do the cycles in reverse

3) lean bulk (off for 12 weeks after PCT)
2) cut (off 16 weeks)
1) lean bulk


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## XYZ (Jan 13, 2012)

I would go see an endo before trusting a saliva test.  Blood work trumps all.

If it is low then start TRT and get your dose dialed in first, THEN the gears.

By the looks of things you should be doing a little more reading.  

Good luck


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

XYZ said:


> I would go see an endo before trusting a saliva test. Blood work trumps all.
> 
> If it is low then start TRT and get your dose dialed in first, THEN the gears.
> 
> ...


 
You didn't read the whole thread. I did do blood with my doc and an Endo; 187 was the last score...

Will not be dialing down a TRT dose. I'm going to cycle first, then follow up with a good Endo in this summer, it's going to take 6 months to get into this guy. I'll put off cycle 2 and 3 until I get TRT down...

In the meantime...low dose cycle...

Forgot to mention that I'll be getting blood work done every 2-3 weeks and my current doc whose a good guy will monitor...

Thanks anyway though, cheers.


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

made an error to cycle 3 (too late to edit)

Cycle 3 (I just thought of it yesterday because I got a bonus vial of Prop in the mail), otherwise I was leaning towards cycle 2.

1-3 100 Test Prop EOD
1-12 250 Test E
8-14 50mg Var ED (split in 2 doses)
3-12 HCG (500iu/2)
1-12 10mg EOD Aromasin
18 Triptorelin 100mcg
18-22 Igf-1 des
15-18 Clomid 25 ED
15-18 Sustain Alpha
15-18 Natty supps, Creatine, test busters.
6-18 Liver Juice


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## Vibrant (Jan 13, 2012)

If you're going to cycle than 250mgs of test a week is pointless. That's barely above what a normal male produces in a week. for some people that's a trt dose. IMO, you need at least 400mgs for a decent cycle.


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## aminoman74 (Jan 13, 2012)

test,tren,drols,ipam/cjc,igf-1 LR3 with a hint of slin


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## skinnyguy180 (Jan 13, 2012)

First off I'm no vet.

Secondly your 5 foot 8 and 200lbs with not much muscle judging by your lifts.  Personally I would take OP advice and get your shit together in the gym and trt before deciding to blast gear

For first cycle I would do test only with maybe a dbol kick start. Like below running test at 250 a week ain't shit.

Weeks 1-4 20-40mgs dbol
Weeks 1-16Test e 500 a week
25 adex eod

And if your trt you probably wouldn't need a pct right?

But to recap start your trt and get some gym time in.


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## Imosted (Jan 13, 2012)

aminoman74 said:


> test,tren,drols,ipam/cjc,igf-1 LR3 with a hint of slin




Bro its his firt real cycle....that stuff is too much for him


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

Vibrant said:


> If you're going to cycle than 250mgs of test a week is pointless. That's barely above what a normal male produces in a week. for some people that's a trt dose. IMO, you need at least 400mgs for a decent cycle.


 
I think a lot of vets are going to disagree, I'm staking a second compound; I would totally agree with you if I were doing test only. will I get better results with 400? For sure, but with greater sides. This is a first run and I'm prone to MPB, If things are going well at week 6, I might up it...


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## Vibrant (Jan 13, 2012)

aminoman74 said:


> test,tren,drols,ipam/cjc,igf-1 LR3 with a hint of slin



That's fucking idiotic advice even if you're joking. Dude is asking for help and that's the advice you give him? if you want to troll and joke around, do it in anything goes.


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## skinnyguy180 (Jan 13, 2012)

vancouver said:


> I think a lot of vets are going to disagree, I'm staking a second compound; I would totally agree with you if I were doing test only. will I get better results with 400? For sure, but with greater sides. This is a first run and I'm prone to MPB, If things are going well at week 6, I might up it...



Your wrong most vets on here would not agree.  You should go back and read the sticky above titled first cycle.  And then research the compounds your talking about using.


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## Vibrant (Jan 13, 2012)

vancouver said:


> I think a lot of vets are going to disagree, I'm staking a second compound; I would totally agree with you if I were doing test only. will I get better results with 400? For sure, but with greater sides. This is a first run and I'm prone to MPB, If things are going well at week 6, I might up it...



400 is a very low and safe dose. Test is actually one of the safest steroids. if you're worried about sides, then a test +primo cycle is your best bet IMO. Keep a proper dose of ai and you'll be fine.

And pct should be (if you're planning on it):

Clomid 100/100/75/50
Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

skinnyguy180 said:


> Your wrong most vets on here would not agree. You should go back and read the sticky above titled first cycle. And then research the compounds your talking about using.


 
BS. A lot of guys have had no problem gaining 10lbs on Var only, Eq only or Primo only on first cycle. I'm adding more than a maintanance level of test. If I gain 10 keepable lbs with little sides and no fat gain, I'll be very happy. I'll then do it 2 more times.

If anything, I could up the Eq or Primo...I don't have to up the test.


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

Vibrant said:


> 400 is a very low and safe dose. Test is actually one of the safest steroids. if you're worried about sides, then a test +primo cycle is your best bet IMO. Keep a proper dose of ai and you'll be fine.
> 
> And pct should be (if you're planning on it):
> 
> ...


 
My PCT is listed in my cycle and I'm sticking to it. I also like the Primo cycle

The Official PCT Thread - Primordial Performance Discussion Forums


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## GarlicChicken (Jan 13, 2012)

vancouver said:


> My PCT is listed in my cycle and I'm sticking to it. I also like the Primo cycle
> 
> The Official PCT Thread - Primordial Performance Discussion Forums



I actually always do clomid 100/100/75/50 with the aromasin and it works like a mofo, even after tren. I do use hcg throughout though too.


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## GarlicChicken (Jan 13, 2012)

Plus I'm scared of that triptorelin shit. I personally don't think there's enough experience out there to trust it.


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## Imosted (Jan 13, 2012)

Vibrant said:


> 400 is a very low and safe dose. Test is actually one of the safest steroids. if you're worried about sides, then a test +primo cycle is your best bet IMO. Keep a proper dose of ai and you'll be fine.
> 
> And pct should be (if you're planning on it):
> 
> ...





This


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## skinnyguy180 (Jan 13, 2012)

vancouver said:


> BS. A lot of guys have had no problem gaining 10lbs on Var only, Eq only or Primo only on first cycle. I'm adding more than a maintanance level of test. If I gain 10 keepable lbs with little sides and no fat gain, I'll be very happy. I'll then do it 2 more times.
> 
> If anything, I could up the Eq or Primo...I don't have to up the test.



Are you serious man? Listen to vibrant he was nice enough to respond to a thread that is stickied on the top.  You are an idiot primo only would not get you shit, var only for a guy as fat as you would be useless.  You want to gain 10 lbs I'm 185 5'11 and my lifts are bigger than yours.  Youre a fatty that needs to lose 15pounds.  stop argueing and start listening.


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

GarlicChicken said:


> I actually always do clomid 100/100/75/50 with the aromasin and it works like a mofo, even after tren. I do use hcg throughout though too.


 
The link in my thread is a real good read. I was going to go 100/100/75/75. but after reading about the Natty supps that help and using HCG on cycle, many feel these doses can be much lower. Clomid is toxic drug. The good thing is, I'll have plenty of ancillaries and if PCT takes 5 weeks...so be it...

Cheers


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## Vibrant (Jan 13, 2012)

vancouver said:


> My PCT is listed in my cycle and I'm sticking to it. I also like the Primo cycle
> 
> The Official PCT Thread - Primordial Performance Discussion Forums



Sorry to be so blunt but that fucking pct is stupid. you're going to listen to pct advice from a company that sells over hyped supplements/pro hormones. You already have low test and you're risking complete shutdown.


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

skinnyguy180 said:


> Are you serious man? Listen to vibrant he was nice enough to respond to a thread that is stickied on the top. You are an idiot primo only would not get you shit, var only for a guy as fat as you would be useless. You want to gain 10 lbs I'm 185 5'11 and my lifts are bigger than yours. Youre a fatty that needs to lose 15pounds. stop argueing and start listening.


 
No I'm a guy with 187 natty test levels Ass Hole and I've been reading a shit load for 2 years. If I can gain 6 clean lbs on 6 weeks dermcrine, clearly I can gain 10 lbs on any of the cycles above.

And who gives a shit what I lift, you did not read the first thread which was aimed at elliminating as many stupid posts as possible. I lift WAY more than the average guy.

My goals are not your goals.

Vibrant knows his shit, but he does not know what my goals is. I still appreciate his feedback though...


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## skinnyguy180 (Jan 13, 2012)

Good luck!

Btw there is a reason why their are 1000 people in this section an three responding to you.


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

Vibrant said:


> Sorry to be so blunt but that fucking pct is stupid. you're going to listen to pct advice from a company that sells over hyped supplements/pro hormones. You already have low test and you're risking complete shutdown.


 
C'mon man...I see your point but seriously...this shit as come a long way. I've read dozens of studies posted by some good guys on a lot of boards which discuss the need for less clomid when using HCG, added with the other compounds...I'm not too worried.

I'm still all ears though...you never stop learning.

For the other guys who are going to post, assume I've read a shit load...unilike most guys, I'll be getting blood work done throghout, if someting isn;t right, I'll make an adjustment...


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## Digitalash (Jan 13, 2012)

wks. 1-10
500mg test E per week, 2x injections of 250mg 3.5 days apart
.25mg arimidex every day

PCT wks. 12-16
start clomid 14 days after last injection, run @ 100mg clomid per day for week one, 50mg per day for the three following weeks for a total of 4 weeks pct.


I don't like most of your cycles to be honest, your test is too low at 250mg and you're adding in unnecessary compounds. 500mg test will make you grow pretty damn well with almost no sides except for mild acne/extreme horniness. If you want to use your free prop run it @ 100mg EOD for about the first three weeks to kickstart the long estered test. There's no reason to use anything else really, test is king anyway so you're not missing much


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## Digitalash (Jan 13, 2012)

Sorry I didn't realize you had such a gear stockpile considering this is your first cycle. If you want to get slightly more complex then definitely kickstart with prop, and finish with around 7weeks of var @50mg. Ideally you should go a little higher on the var but it's up to you if you want to grab some. You'll start making gains right out of the gate, have some solid time on test E to gain some weight and then the var should harden you up a bit at the end if your diet's on point. Sounds pretty good to me no?


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## rage racing (Jan 13, 2012)

You keep saying that you did alot of reading but you havent figured out a simple first cycle? You could read for about 5min on this site and figure it out. Listen to what you are being told. That is way too many compounds for a first cycle. Your goals are really no different than anyone elses. We all want to put on muscle, while either reducing or maintaining our fat level. Swallow your pride and listen to people who know. Good luck no matter what road you take.


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

rage racing said:


> You keep saying that you did alot of reading but you havent figured out a simple first cycle? You could read for about 5min on this site and figure it out. Listen to what you are being told. That is way too many compounds for a first cycle. Your goals are really no different than anyone elses. We all want to put on muscle, while either reducing or maintaining our fat level. Swallow your pride and listen to people who know. Good luck no matter what road you take.


 
Are you on the same thread as everyone else. I looking at doing 250 test e (with a prop kicker (it's still fucking test) with Var starting 8 weeks into the cycle. This is too many compounds???

If your refering to my PCT, I could through some more shit in there too...I've got plenty of money to burn...


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## Vibrant (Jan 13, 2012)

vancouver said:


> C'mon man...I see your point but seriously...this shit as come a long way. I've read dozens of studies posted by some good guys on a lot of boards which discuss the need for less clomid when using HCG, added with the other compounds...I'm not too worried.
> 
> I'm still all ears though...you never stop learning.
> 
> For the other guys who are going to post, assume I've read a shit load...unilike most guys, I'll be getting blood work done throghout, if someting isn;t right, I'll make an adjustment...



hcg doesn't do anything to restart natural test production. post up the studies you are talking about because I believe you're missing the point somewhere(Im saying that's not the case though)

The bare minimum for clomid would be 50mg. and you need an ai for pct as well. if you dont want aromasin, check out formerone by black lion research. that's what I'll be using for pct after being on gear for 6-7months. pm me if you want more info on that.


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

Digitalash said:


> Sorry I didn't realize you had such a gear stockpile considering this is your first cycle. If you want to get slightly more complex then definitely kickstart with prop, and finish with around 7weeks of var @50mg. Ideally you should go a little higher on the var but it's up to you if you want to grab some. You'll start making gains right out of the gate, have some solid time on test E to gain some weight and then the var should harden you up a bit at the end if your diet's on point. Sounds pretty good to me no?


 
Yes!! this is what I'm looking at for a first run. Carefull, some of the bros might think you're an idiot. 

I'll do the other cycle later and most likely up the test, but for the purposes of this threard...I would to keep the Test and a base level...


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

Vibrant said:


> hcg doesn't do anything to restart natural test production. post up the studies you are talking about because I believe you're missing the point somewhere(Im saying that's not the case though)
> 
> The bare minimum for clomid would be 50mg. and you need an ai for pct as well. if you dont want aromasin, check out formerone by black lion research. that's what I'll be using for pct after being on gear for 6-7months. pm if you want more info on that.


 
There are countless threads advicating HCG on cycle as it helps with reducing shut down, you can find them right here. I'm not saying you are wrong, I've just read too many other respected opinions and i'm not worried for a second that I'll perminately shut down, It's not like I'm doing tribulis for PCT.

I'll read more and maybe bump up the Clomid, you have raised my curiosity.


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## Vibrant (Jan 13, 2012)

vancouver said:


> There are countless threads advicating HCG on cycle as it helps with reducing shut down, you can find them right here. I'm not saying you are wrong, I've just read too many other respected opinions and i'm not worried for a second that I'll perminately shut down, It's not like I'm doing tribulis for PCT.
> 
> I'll read more and maybe bump up the Clomid, you have raised my curiosity.



I wasn't talking about hcg on cycle, of course it keep your boys big and makes pct easier. it sounded like you expected hcg to restart your natural production.


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## rage racing (Jan 13, 2012)

vancouver said:


> Are you on the same thread as everyone else. I looking at doing 250 test e (with a prop kicker (it's still fucking test) with Var starting 8 weeks into the cycle. This is too many compounds???
> 
> If your refering to my PCT, I could through some more shit in there too...I've got plenty of money to burn...


 
Whatever bro. Your cycle sucks and you dont wanna listen to anyone. 250 test is to low and your too fat for Var. Good luck anyway


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

Vibrant said:


> I wasn't talking about hcg on cycle, of course it keep your boys big and makes pct easier. it sounded like you expected hcg to restart your natural production.


 
Nope, just require less Clomid. The other stuff has some pretty good research behind it and lots of positive reps from guys who have nothing to do with Primordial. It doesn't replace SERM though...


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## skinnyguy180 (Jan 13, 2012)

vancouver said:


> Yes!! this is what I'm looking at for a first run. Carefull, some of the bros might think you're an idiot.



NO ONE on this site thinks DL is an idiot he is still telling you to run test E at 500 a week.  And notice how he said var at the end would harden you up because that is what primo and var are supposed to do.  Thats also why I said your to fat for those compounds.  How hard do you think your going to get at 25% body fat.  A lot of guys will tell you those compounds are way more beneficial when you are 10% bf and lower.


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

rage racing said:


> Whatever bro. Your cycle sucks and you dont wanna listen to anyone. 250 test is to low and your too fat for Var. Good luck anyway


 
Not doing the Var to cut, it's good for collagen synthesis and will put on some muslce.

You are choosing to ignore my goals and can only relate to how you would run this cycle.

250 test and 50 var with a prop kicker is not a shity first cycle, you have to be retarded to think so. It's a shitty cycle for you. How many guys have done var only or test 250 only and put on 10 lbs, I'm doing both.

How many cycles have you done, what were they and what were your results...this would help, not jumping to to conclusions


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

skinnyguy180 said:


> NO ONE on this site thinks DL is an idiot he is still telling you to run test E at 500 a week. And notice how he said var at the end would harden you up because that is what primo and var are supposed to do. Thats also why I said your to fat for those compounds. How hard do you think your going to get at 25% body fat. A lot of guys will tell you those compounds are way more beneficial when you are 10% bf and lower.


 
Are you stupid? Var and Primo can put on mass and especially when combined with test. I never said I was cutting...and if you read my fucking first post you'd know why I'm carying more body fat.

For any other fucking idiot who feels they want to apply their goals to mine...think first.

I'm going on TRT cycle or no cycle. I'm doubling what I would on TRT and I'm adding a synergestic compound to get the result "I" want.

If you come to this thread to Troll, go somehwere else. Alternatively you can read before you comment!!!


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

So this thread has bee completely fucking basterdized.

Please, before you post, read post 1 and post 2. I'll only be doing one of the cycles and I'm leaning toward 3.

I want to do low dose and nothing is going to change my mind. Yes I know more equals more.

Read the 300mg/600mg study posted all over this site for guys who don't think a low dose can get results. The guys lost fat and put on muscle without training, even at 300mg. I'm adding a second compound.

Don't be douches

Looking forward to reading some more positive comments...


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## skinnyguy180 (Jan 13, 2012)

vancouver said:


> Are you stupid? Var and Primo can put on mass and especially when combined with test. I never said I was cutting...and if you read my fucking first post you'd know why I'm carying more body fat.
> 
> For any other fucking idiot who feels they want to apply their goals to mine...think first.
> 
> ...



Yeah I'm stupid.  I'm not applying my goals to you dummy.  Var and primo don't put on mass ahhahahah.  Atleast not in a significant sense.  Test puts on mass. You are reinventing the wheel.  You think your smarter than every one else and your just proving how ignorant you are. 

And btw I read every word of your retarded first post.


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## _LG_ (Jan 13, 2012)

Looks like your making an uninformed decision.  And that your bad mouthing all the guys trying to help you.  Good job aye


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## skinnyguy180 (Jan 13, 2012)

Also low test doesn't make you fat.  There are many many men with low test that are extremely thin.  By that standard wouldn't all women be fat?


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

Little Guy said:


> Looks like your making an uninformed decision. And that your bad mouthing all the guys trying to help you. Good job aye


 
No one is helping me and I'm not asking or it...


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

skinnyguy180 said:


> Also low test doesn't make you fat. There are many many men with low test that are extremely thin. By that standard wouldn't all women be fat?


 
You you serious??? 

Women carry more fat then men, yes it is because of body chemistry.

Holy fuck...


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

If someone want to bet me I can't put on 10 lean pounds with any of the above listed cycles, you're on...

All I asked was which one you liked better, despite the dose, for those who have actually run these cycles, which I'm guessing is half the posters...


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## oufinny (Jan 13, 2012)

vancouver said:


> The link in my thread is a real good read. I was going to go 100/100/75/75. but after reading about the Natty supps that help and using HCG on cycle, many feel these doses can be much lower. Clomid is toxic drug. The good thing is, I'll have plenty of ancillaries and if PCT takes 5 weeks...so be it...
> 
> Cheers



Don't use triptorelin, it has bad sides and has yet to be proven to work. Clomid or Torem and get your dose up. The PP shit is good for a DHEA cycle like they sell, not AAS. I like PP but even they will say use a proper serm at a real dose. You are not listening at all... Test at 500mg or you are spitting in the wind.


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## skinnyguy180 (Jan 13, 2012)

vancouver said:


> If someone want to bet me I can't put on 10 lean pounds with any of the above listed cycles, you're on...
> 
> All I asked was which one you liked better, despite the dose, for those who have actually run these cycles, which I'm guessing is half the posters...



Bro I'll take that bet!!! Post before and afters in a journal and run 250 test and any of your other compounds in those amounts posted. you gain 10 lbs of muscle I'll apologize.


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## Vibrant (Jan 13, 2012)

vancouver said:


> No one is helping me and I'm not asking or it...



look, so you're saying that none of us tried to help you nor do you want it? Why make a thread then? Good luck but don't be surprised when not too many people help you after saying what you said.


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

skinnyguy180 said:


> Bro I'll take that bet!!! Post before and afters in a journal and run 250 test and any of your other compounds in those amounts posted. you gain 10 lbs of muscle I'll apologize.


 
No no, you put up a banner apologizing


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## skinnyguy180 (Jan 13, 2012)

What ever you want.  Cause it's not going to happen.  Would you also like me to post you tube video after you tube video of guys with low test pinning that are not fat.


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

skinnyguy180 said:


> What ever you want. Cause it's not going to happen. Would you also like me to post you tube video after you tube video of guys with low test pinning that are not fat.


 
Huh!!!

You must be confusing me with some twit that showed up on the board, has low T and is looking for a miracle. I was squating 315X5 @ 165lb 10 years ago...this is not my first week in the weight room...I'm also a scratch golfer you fucking idiot, I'm not looking for 22" arms.

Go do a gram of test and cheer up.


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

Vibrant said:


> look, so you're saying that none of us tried to help you nor do you want it? Why make a thread then? Good luck but don't be surprised when not too many people help you after saying what you said.


 
Yes.

Look I asked what cycle you like best; I was expecting people to reply with experience about how they did on similar cycles; instead a go a flamefest.

I will potentially be putting 650mg AAS in my system every week, this is not a TRT dose. The way a lot of guys have put it, Eq is like 50% of test, so 250 test and 400 eq is "like" pinning 450 test per week with less sides...

I've read some pretty good low dose articles. Success comes down to diet and training...


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

Skinny, can you point me to some of your logs...that would be helpful...


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## skinnyguy180 (Jan 13, 2012)

vancouver said:


> Skinny, can you point me to some of your logs...that would be helpful...



Bro I'm 20 lbs less than you and squating 315*10 and I broke both my legs three years ago was in a hospital for two months and in a wheel chair for 4 months after then using a walker and then a cane.  You are a weak know it all and will fail in gym just like you always have.


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## skinnyguy180 (Jan 13, 2012)

That's my hip and my ankle is worse. And I still out lift you.


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## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

skinnyguy180 said:


> Bro I'm 20 lbs less than you and squating 315*10 and I broke both my legs three years ago was in a hospital for two months and in a wheel chair for 4 months after then using a walker and then a cane. You are a weak know it all and will fail in gym just like you always have.


 
You're a real fucking dipshit aren't you. You didn't read my post, you chose to pick out the points you wanted. I could not even squat the bar 18 months ago, because of ilness. In May I was squating 105 lbs X 10. By Dec I was back up to 315 X5. Been cutting for 4 weeks and now back down to 265 (natural, no cycles under my belt). What do you think I'm going to be at after a cycle and another year of training, once I'm on TRT.

Karma's a bitch, here's hoping you break another leg...oh I mean good luck with your training!


----------



## skinnyguy180 (Jan 13, 2012)

Someones melting


----------



## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

skinnyguy180 said:


> Bro I'm 20 lbs less than you and squating 315*10 and I broke both my legs three years ago was in a hospital for two months and in a wheel chair for 4 months after then using a walker and then a cane. You are a weak know it all and will fail in gym just like you always have.


 



http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/online-journals/141197-skinnys-ode-3.html#post2636266

I call BS on your 315 full squats to 10 reps. I just found your log. Your bent over row is a few lbs over mine (I misstated my reps, I'm actually repping out at 7)

220 on the bench press machine for 10 reps eh, I'm 225 for 8 reps on the hammer strength press, but only do it when my shoulders hurt.

Sure, you moving a bit more weight then me, I've only been healthy since May...but you're no super hero, and what's more...you've done all this on gear, I haven't...

 now there is a pumped up guy!!!


----------



## skinnyguy180 (Jan 13, 2012)

That's what I looked like at the end of my first cycle.  I pretty happy with it.  Except for the silly face I'm making.  Let's post up your "after" of the cycle that your posting hahaha and compare.  And you missed my first post where I said I'm no veteran.  Cause I'm on my secon blast of my first cycle but unlike you I listened to the advice givin to me.  But hey post some pics fatty.


----------



## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

skinnyguy180 said:


> That's what I looked like at the end of my first cycle. I pretty happy with it. Except for the silly face I'm making. Let's post up your "after" of the cycle that your posting hahaha and compare. And you missed my first post where I said I'm no veteran. Cause I'm on my secon blast of my first cycle but unlike you I listened to the advice givin to me. But hey post some pics fatty.


 
So you did 1 cycle and you're giving me advice. What a fucking looser!!

I look just like you do buddy, with 20lbs more fat...OK you win, you look better.

1 cycle and my stats will be as good or better than yours...in fact I could probably train for another 12 months with my pathetic 187 natty test, cut 20lbs of fat and get where you are...

You started gear at around 160-65 lbs, isn't that a no no Mr Steroid expert??

Why are you competing with me


----------



## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

skinnyguy180 said:


> That's what I looked like at the end of my first cycle. I pretty happy with it. Except for the silly face I'm making. Let's post up your "after" of the cycle that your posting hahaha and compare. And you missed my first post where I said I'm no veteran. Cause I'm on my secon blast of my first cycle but unlike you I listened to the advice givin to me. But hey post some pics fatty.


 
I looked at your lifting stats when you started your cycle...Guess what???

Mine are better and I'm only running on 187 natty test 

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/online-journals/141197-skinnys-ode.html

You should have never started with me...what a fucking loser


----------



## skinnyguy180 (Jan 13, 2012)

Yeah I feel like one haha.  You posted my journal that I posted thinking that people here haven't seen it lol.  And even in that journal I ask for help saying i don't know it all.  And I was doing you a favor posting in here regurgitating info that the vets are tired of.  You know how many times people post this same thread.  I'd figured I'd pass on what was passes to me.  Guess I learned lesson.


----------



## skinnyguy180 (Jan 13, 2012)

An yeah I was 30-40 lbs less than you in the beginning hahaha.  Doing german volume training


----------



## vancouver (Jan 13, 2012)

skinnyguy180 said:


> Yeah I feel like one haha. You posted my journal that I posted thinking that people here haven't seen it lol. And even in that journal I ask for help saying i don't know it all. And I was doing you a favor posting in here regurgitating info that the vets are tired of. You know how many times people post this same thread. I'd figured I'd pass on what was passes to me. Guess I learned lesson.


 
People assumed I was looking for help, I was just looking for conversation and maybe some feed back on sucess/failures they experienced. People jump the gun a lot...it's human nature I guess.

I'm excited about my first cycle and I've made some decent gains on 1/4th the natural test of most of the guys here, since coming back from ilness...

I have enough gear for 6-7 cycles, I'm in no rush, I consider my cycles super TRT

Cheers.


----------



## _LG_ (Jan 14, 2012)

vancouver said:


> People assumed I was looking for help, I was just looking for conversation and maybe some feed back on sucess/failures they experienced. People jump the gun a lot...it's human nature I guess.
> 
> I'm excited about my first cycle and I've made some decent gains on 1/4th the natural test of most of the guys here, since coming back from ilness...
> 
> ...



You really don't understand this.


----------



## Digitalash (Jan 14, 2012)

250mg test e IS a trt dose for alot of people... 500 at least for a cycle bro. You'd basically be putting yourself just above high normal test levels, while shutting yourself down further. If you intend to do trt you should get on 200-250mg a week anyway. I'm telling you you'll be dissapointed with that cycle and the EQ is not going to do much in that time frame. Just run the 500mg test, kickstart with prop @ 100mg EOD and use a-dex. If you want throw in the var but I didn't realize how high your bf was, maybe save that for another cycle. Your diet is gonna be the most important thing though really not what gear you use.


----------



## vancouver (Jan 14, 2012)

Little Guy said:


> You really don't understand this.


 
Enlighten me...

Explain to me how 250 test and 400 Eq is much different than 500 test alone???

Be detailed in your explanation


----------



## justhav2p (Jan 14, 2012)

first cycle run your test. If you want to add in D-bol go for it. 

Me think ur an idiot for not listening to others,.. you don';t need all the other thngs listed. You will get the same results with just test as you would with eq, tren and everything else. 

You will blowup regardless of compounds.


----------



## vancouver (Jan 14, 2012)

justhav2p said:


> first cycle run your test. If you want to add in D-bol go for it.
> 
> Me think ur an idiot for not listening to others,.. you don';t need all the other thngs listed. You will get the same results with just test as you would with eq, tren and everything else.
> 
> You will blowup regardless of compounds.


 
 You have got to be joking...

Buddy, you cycle is posted in your sig. You're currently running 4 compounds in this cycle. Your starting lifts, except for bench press is a lower than mine, still inclined DB press in 10lbs more, so that tells me you're doing half reps. (I'm natty producing the test of an 80 year old in the 5th percentile)

Clearly this is not your first cycle since you're running all these compounds. This is what you look like after multiple cycles??? and those are your lifting stats.

Shit maybe AAS doesn't work, I think I'll take up knitting.

BTW, I've seen bigger wheels on a 16 year old girl who was the same bodyfat as you.

Why did you set yourself up like this???


----------



## justhav2p (Jan 14, 2012)

at least my cock is still bigger 

and I use AAS for their cutting properties... My post is solid advice to help you, then you want to be a jagoff. GICH


----------



## vancouver (Jan 14, 2012)

justhav2p said:


> at least my cock is still bigger
> 
> and I use AAS for their cutting properties... My post is solid advice to help you, then you want to be a jagoff. GICH


 


			
				justhav2p said:
			
		

> Hi, you have received -14224 reputation points from justhav2p.
> Reputation was given for *this* post.
> 
> Comment:
> ...


 
LOL 

Your cock migh be the only thing bigger. Fucking guy has legs smaller than 16 year old girl and he's giving me AAS advice.

You may want to consume food with the 4 compounds you're stacking in your current cycle...it will help.


----------



## justhav2p (Jan 14, 2012)

and link to your pics? 

show me up big guy? 

If not, go suck a dick.


----------



## vancouver (Jan 14, 2012)

Digitalash said:


> 250mg test e IS a trt dose for alot of people... 500 at least for a cycle bro. You'd basically be putting yourself just above high normal test levels, while shutting yourself down further. If you intend to do trt you should get on 200-250mg a week anyway. I'm telling you you'll be dissapointed with that cycle and the EQ is not going to do much in that time frame. Just run the 500mg test, kickstart with prop @ 100mg EOD and use a-dex. If you want throw in the var but I didn't realize how high your bf was, maybe save that for another cycle. Your diet is gonna be the most important thing though really not what gear you use.


 
TRT dose is the whole point man, it will actually be 2X TRT. As for the Eq, the plan is 15 weeks (not 12), I could even extend it a couple weeks if I feel like I'm still making gains and if I feel comfortable with the sides, I can pump it up to 500 or 600 at mid point. Var was never going to be in the Eq cycle and actually I'm leaning towards putting it in with Primo and Test E in a later cut cycle. I want to recover as easily as possible for when I visit the doc this summer. Then I'll look at perminant TRT dose

If over 15-17 weeks I gain 10lbs with no fat...I'll be happy. First cycle, I'm already majorly low in natty test...400-600 eq will do the trick, I don't have to raise test significantly to reach my goal...(300 is not out of the question though)

I've already stated in other posts that I'm a golfer, I'm not looking to put on 20lbs in first cycle, this will make my life miserable this summer...


----------



## vancouver (Jan 14, 2012)

justhav2p said:


> and link to your pics?
> 
> show me up big guy?
> 
> If not, go suck a dick.


 
go curl 20lb  Inject first though...

You know, most people would not have the nerve to advise others when their lift are less than many teenage football players and they look like you do...

ah...go to the womens section, just about any of them could show you up...


----------



## justhav2p (Jan 14, 2012)

where does it say I curl 20's in my journal... I curl 35's.

Hope your first cycle goes well and hope when you grow up you change your shithead attitude. GL


----------



## vancouver (Jan 14, 2012)

justhav2p said:


> where does it say I curl 20's in my journal... I curl 35's.
> 
> Hope your first cycle goes well and hope when you grow up you change your shithead attitude. GL



I see you took your journal off your sig...


----------



## skinnyguy180 (Jan 14, 2012)

You know what's funny man you keep comparing your lifts to ours.  The difference between me and you is I don't think my lifts are impressive at all.  And you keep saying how you "lift more than the average guy even with your test". You seem to think a lot of your self.  I am the opposite, girls can lift what I lift.  There are 60 year old men at my gym that rep 500 lb squats I feel like I'm nothing and have a lot to learn and long way to go to get to a level of any merit.  But good luck with your trt.


----------



## vancouver (Jan 14, 2012)

skinnyguy180 said:


> You know what's funny man you keep comparing your lifts to ours. The difference between me and you is I don't think my lifts are impressive at all. And you keep saying how you "lift more than the average guy even with your test". You seem to think a lot of your self. I am the opposite, girls can lift what I lift. There are 60 year old men at my gym that rep 500 lb squats I feel like I'm nothing and have a lot to learn and long way to go to get to a level of any merit. But good luck with your trt.


 
Not even for a second man. I only ever commented that my lifts were bigger than your guy's with nuts not working and no cycles under my belt when you guys offered up advice being newbe's yourself. Then you proceeded to put me down and call me an idiot. That's all. My lift aren't big, but they are bigger than the average dude my size and bigger than yours (natty). I've been an athelete all my life and was very sick up until 9 months ago. I've not been in a gym in years. I have never ever bragged on any thread about my lifts, But I can promise you they here much bigger than yours 5 years ago and 10 years ago when I was 150 lbs ripped, 15.5" bi's and had full nuts...

Don't get caught up in the test is best bullshit. There are a lot of guys on a lot of boards who know their shit and will tell you maintanance test stacked with a second compound like eq or primo is a great way to go...first cycle or not. But I fully expect dude here to call them idiots too, that is their calling in life...

BTW, you did go out of your way to post an xray to prove a point which you volunteered...touche

Peace out!


----------



## skinnyguy180 (Jan 14, 2012)

Lol your lifts were never more than mine I lifted more than what you posted in high school hahah.


----------



## vancouver (Jan 14, 2012)

skinnyguy180 said:


> Lol your lifts were never more than mine I lifted more than what you posted in high school hahah.


 
Here we go again   you may want to go back and review your starting stats big guy, before you cycled...


----------



## skinnyguy180 (Jan 14, 2012)

Yeah maybe you should go back and reread. the weight was a little less but at 10 sets of ten with 60 secs rest and super sets.  No matter it's still weak sauce.

But hey maybe your 1 set of 5 reps is a comparison which is also weak sauce


----------



## justhav2p (Jan 15, 2012)

still waiting for pics to be shown up by Vancouvers thor body....


----------



## XYZ (Jan 16, 2012)

Vibrant said:


> That's fucking idiotic advice even if you're joking. Dude is asking for help and that's the advice you give him? if you want to troll and joke around, do it in anything goes.


 

This is good advice.


----------



## XYZ (Jan 16, 2012)

vancouver said:


> LOL
> 
> Your cock migh be the only thing bigger. Fucking guy has legs smaller than 16 year old girl and he's giving me AAS advice.
> 
> You may want to consume food with the 4 compounds you're stacking in your current cycle...it will help.


 


justhav2p said:


> and link to your pics?
> 
> show me up big guy?
> 
> If not, go suck a dick.


 

Keep it clean in here please. We don't want infractions, warnings or bannings.


----------



## XYZ (Jan 16, 2012)

vancouver said:


> You're a real fucking dipshit aren't you. You didn't read my post, you chose to pick out the points you wanted. I could not even squat the bar 18 months ago, because of ilness. In May I was squating 105 lbs X 10. By Dec I was back up to 315 X5. Been cutting for 4 weeks and now back down to 265 (natural, no cycles under my belt). What do you think I'm going to be at after a cycle and another year of training, once I'm on TRT.
> 
> Karma's a bitch, here's hoping you break another leg...oh I mean good luck with your training!


 

You can't talk to people like this in this section.  Please take it to anything goes.  If it continues we'll have to lock this thread.

Guys are trying to help and it seems as if you don't like what they are saying.  

Chill.


----------



## _LG_ (Jan 16, 2012)

Great thread


----------



## vancouver (Jan 16, 2012)

XYZ said:


> You can't talk to people like this in this section. Please take it to anything goes. If it continues we'll have to lock this thread.
> 
> Guys are trying to help and it seems as if you don't like what they are saying.
> 
> Chill.


 
Will do.

Yes a few have offered some standard advice, too many have offered advice I'll take with a grain of salt, given their experience and previous success...cheers!


----------



## Caretaker (Mar 9, 2012)

vancouver said:


> No I'm a guy with 187 natty test levels Ass Hole and I've been reading a shit load for 2 years. If I can gain 6 clean lbs on 6 weeks dermcrine, clearly I can gain 10 lbs on any of the cycles above.
> 
> And who gives a shit what I lift, you did not read the first thread which was aimed at elliminating as many stupid posts as possible. I lift WAY more than the average guy.
> 
> ...


If you appreciated ANY of the advice your getting you`d stop being such an asshole and LISTEN.
Listen to me....please....do ALL the gear you have in one day and be done with it, and us. 
Admin/mods, Can we vote to ban someone?
Enjoy the negs!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## SloppyJ (Mar 9, 2012)

Tons of GREAT info in here.


----------



## vancouver (Mar 9, 2012)

I'm 6 weeks into my cycle, up 6lbs and 1" off my waist. Pretty well the result I was looking for, but I'm suprised how fast the progress is coming considering the haters on this thread.

New lifting stats

Squat 315 X 7
Bench 200 X 7 (bench will always suck, fucked up shoulders) Inclined DB Press 80's X 7
Deads, 315 X 7
Overhead press 135 X 7 (again, shoulders don't like this much, but better than military)
Bent over BB Row 185 X 7

After this cycle, I'll be doing mainly Oly lifts. I'm not really interested in getting bigger, just leaner and stronger.

For those who are contemplating their first cycle, I don't think there is anything wrong with low dose, as long as it fits your goals...don't buy into the test is best argument (and only at 500mg), if it were, bold would not be one of the top detected AAS found in pro atheletes these day...(specifically in MMA)...


----------



## hypno (Mar 9, 2012)

I just saw this thread Van. I am not sure anything I can add will help except good luck Bro!


----------



## vancouver (Mar 9, 2012)

hypno said:


> I just saw this thread Van. I am not sure anything I can add will help except good luck Bro!


 
Thanks bro!


----------



## dav1dg90 (Mar 9, 2012)

WTF LMAO!!! This thread is waste of space!!


----------



## Vibrant (Mar 9, 2012)

hypno said:


> I just saw this thread Van. *im not sure that any advice I give will be even considered, so ehh do whatever you like!!!*



Fixed for accuracy.

Gich.


----------



## dav1dg90 (Mar 9, 2012)

vancouver said:


> I'm 6 weeks into my cycle, up 6lbs and 1" off my waist. Pretty well the result I was looking for, but I'm suprised how fast the progress is coming considering the haters on this thread.
> 
> New lifting stats
> 
> ...


 

By the way 6lbs is shit for your first cycle bro. You could have done that natty and now your even worse off than you were when you started, and for 6lbs was that really worth it lmao?? Not trying to be an ass but you shut down everyone who had something to say, and im not including the dudes you were arguing with, but the ones who offered good solid advice. Now you have XYZ posting a thread about you on Anything Goes, congrats on being IM's Most Ignorant Asshole!!!


----------



## vancouver (Mar 9, 2012)

dav1dg90 said:


> By the way 6lbs is shit for your first cycle bro. You could have done that natty and now your even worse off than you were when you started, and for 6lbs was that really worth it lmao?? Not trying to be an ass but you shut down everyone who had something to say, and im not including the dudes you were arguing with, but the ones who offered good solid advice. Now you have XYZ posting a thread about you on Anything Goes, congrats on being IM's Most Ignorant Asshole!!!


 
Are you fucking stupid??? I'm only 6 weeks in, the Eq has barely kicked in. I'd be surprised if I don't put on 15Lbs and lose and inch or 2 in my waist. I'll be cycling for 15 weeks minimum...

READ ALL WORDS IN POST...

LMFAO!!!!


----------



## vancouver (Mar 9, 2012)

Vibrant said:


> Fixed for accuracy.
> 
> Gich.


 
You should probably ask him if that's what he really meant? I'm thinking not...


----------



## stfuandliftbtch (Mar 9, 2012)




----------



## XYZ (Mar 9, 2012)

vancouver said:


> I'm 6 weeks into my cycle, up 6lbs and 1" off my waist. Pretty well the result I was looking for, but *I'm suprised how fast the progress is coming considering the haters on this thread.*
> 
> New lifting stats
> 
> ...


 

You mean those who have tried to help?

Let's close this thread so you're not exposed to a severe negging and / or loose your cool (AGAIN) then proceed to start dropping curse words at members whom are trying to help you.

If you would like me to re-open this please feel free to PM me at anytime.  Thanks.


----------



## XYZ (Mar 10, 2012)

vancouver said:


> Are you fucking stupid??? I'm only 6 weeks in, the Eq has barely kicked in. I'd be surprised if I don't put on 15Lbs and lose and inch or 2 in my waist. I'll be cycling for 15 weeks minimum...
> 
> READ ALL WORDS IN POST...
> 
> LMFAO!!!!


 

At your request, I'm going to reopen this thread.

IF YOU FLAME ONE MORE PERSON, YOU WILL RECEIVE AN INFRACTION(S).  KEEP IT CLEAN OR TAKE IT TO ANYHTING GOES.  Others who flame you personally will be held accountable for their actions as well.

FYI - I don't care for any of the cycles you have laid out and I think they are all pathetic.

That being said, you do what you want for your goals, no one is stopping you.


----------



## heavyiron (Mar 10, 2012)

vancouver said:


> Any of these cycles will do, I just want to know what the vets think . I'm not going to change the dose much of anything, no matter what the folks say...consider my goal...
> 
> The original cycle I wanted to do...
> 
> ...




What cycle did you end up going with?


----------



## AnthonyPiccari (Mar 10, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> What cycle did you end up going with?


----------



## vancouver (Mar 10, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> What cycle did you end up going with?


 
I'm doing the Test/Eq with a prop kicker. All Z Gear.

300mg prop for 4 weeks

300mg test E 1-15 (will extend to 16 or 17 if gains are still strong). I decided to keep it consistant with the prop as the hairline was doing OK at the time.

500mg Eq 1-15 (might extend along with test e)

Aromasin 8mg EOD (I'm not getting any gyno symptoms)

HCG 250IU Monday, Wednesday and Friday (boys are not totally full, think I should up it?)

I was hoping to put on a little mass while lossing a few % BF without loosing hair, it's all working out except the hair, it is thinning more. I'll either start taking proscar or lower the Test and extend the cycle...will decide this coming week.

So far so good, I'm up 7lbs and down an inch in my waist. Even if I keep 10lbs and lose 2 inches around the mid section, it will be a success. I could not do this outside the cycle...my natty test is under 200.

Next cycle come this fall will be Test/eq/var. 300/500/50.

Forgot, I just started GHRP-6 last week as both my shoulders are acting up...I'll keep it going thoughout the summer.


----------



## heavyiron (Mar 10, 2012)

vancouver said:


> I'm doing the Test/Eq with a prop kicker. All Z Gear.
> 
> 300mg prop for 4 weeks
> 
> ...



Looks mellow but fine to me. Maybe a bit long for a first run but other than that I don't see any real problem.


----------



## exphys88 (Mar 10, 2012)

vancouver said:


> I'm doing the Test/Eq with a prop kicker. All Z Gear.
> 
> 300mg prop for 4 weeks
> 
> ...



glycoman runs cycles like this and he knows his shit.


----------



## vicious 13 (Mar 12, 2012)

Bahaha Bro aas is wrong for "your" goals plain and simple send all that z gear to me


----------



## vannesb (Mar 12, 2012)

vancouver said:


> So this thread has bee completely fucking basterdized.
> 
> Please, before you post, read post 1 and post 2. I'll only be doing one of the cycles and I'm leaning toward 3.
> 
> ...


----------



## vicious 13 (Mar 12, 2012)

dont mind me... i just wouldnt cycle w hopes of 10 pounds but everyone is different so i shouldnt criticize his goals


----------



## vancouver (Mar 12, 2012)

vicious 13 said:


> dont mind me... i just wouldnt cycle w hopes of 10 pounds but everyone is different so i shouldnt criticize his goals


 
That's why you negged me and said "wrong 400 a week is cruising".

If you would not cycle with hopes of netting 10lbs of lean mass, why would you want me to send you my Z Gear...you wouldn't know how to use it. Go to the grocery store and pick up a 10lb roast...then you'll know what 10lbs of muscle is.

You know absolutely nothing about human physiology. A newbe might be able to put on 10lbs in a year natty; he'll never do it again without gaining as much fat, he'll lose half that muscle loosing the fat (if he does everything right). An experienced bodybuilder with at least 2 years under his belt would never gain 10lbs fat free mass in a year without AAS, with the exception of 1% of the superfreak population. An IFBB pro would sell both his kidney for 10lbs in a year using AAS...(he might be lucky to gain 5lbs using mega doses)...

Read more, comment less...


----------



## justhav2p (Mar 12, 2012)

Your on track for a lb a week, you should go for 30 weeks and maybe you'll weigh 160 lbs


----------



## vancouver (Mar 12, 2012)

justhav2p said:


> Your on track for a lb a week, you should go for 30 weeks and maybe you'll weigh 160 lbs


 
Picture of justhave2p...he has cycled and his last one had 4 compounds in it...nuff said...


----------



## vicious 13 (Mar 12, 2012)

Bro I put on 20 pounds of lean muscle last cycle 500mg wk test dbol 50mged put on 30 kept 20 I'm pretty sure it worked u need to first focus on cutting your bf but I know I know low t


----------



## vicious 13 (Mar 12, 2012)

And I never said 400 a wk was cruising go re read you wanted to run 250 a wk


----------



## vancouver (Mar 12, 2012)

vicious 13 said:


> Bro I put on 20 pounds of lean muscle last cycle 500mg wk test dbol 50mged put on 30 kept 20 I'm pretty sure it worked u need to first focus on cutting your bf but I know I know low t


 
Why would I do dbol??? Again, someone applying their goals to mine. I chose Eq and and low dose test in order to recomp and keep my hair at the same time. I'm not going on stage anytime soon (ever), I'm not in a rush. If I wan't low T, I would stay natty as long as possible, maybe do peptides only.

I'm sure if I did 500 test and 50mg dbol, I would gain 30 and keep 20 on a first cycle...that was not my goal. To you it seems insane because it doesn't make sense to have a lower goal when you can do more; it makes sense when you want to keep your hair.

So your suggestion is to cut fat and lose the muscle I've built over the last 15 months (since getting over illness), just to gain it back with a cycle??? I don't think you understand how hard it is to retain muscle with low T...

This cycle is going totally as planned. I'm up 8lbs and down an inch in my waist. I still have 8 weeks to go...


----------



## darkside5674 (Mar 12, 2012)

The bottom line bro is that you are getting some good advice from some real vets here. I'm not by any means saying that you don't know what you're talking about but I will say that I think you should do a little more research and maybe read a few of the other threads in this forum. Everyone is different and has had different experiences but there is a lot of the same information being repeated in this thread and that is because it is accurate. Good Luck with the rest of your cycle Bro!!!


----------



## vancouver (Mar 12, 2012)

vicious 13 said:


> And I never said 400 a wk was cruising


 
LOL! there is a record of it on my profile page...


----------



## vancouver (Mar 12, 2012)

darkside5674 said:


> The bottom line bro is that you are getting some good advice from some real vets here. I'm not by any means saying that you don't know what you're talking about but I will say that I think you should do a little more research and maybe read a few of the other threads in this forum. Everyone is different and has had different experiences but there is a lot of the same information being repeated in this thread and that is because it is accurate. Good Luck with the rest of your cycle Bro!!!


 
I got what many would consider good advice from only a couple vets; the rest of the advice came from people who should not be cycling; their pictures are posted. One guy who shits on me (little guy), doesn've even lift weights, he only uses bands. If I turned into an asshole in this thread, it's because too many ******** just had to put their 2 cents in. 

Heavy thought my cycle was just fine (just a little long for a first run, I won't disagree). There are also a lot of vets on this board who are fans of low dose. http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/anabolic-zone/157039-eights-cycleing.html

I see you're new, you'll learn about all the trolls on this site soon enough...

Thanks for the good luck...cheers!


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## vicious 13 (Mar 13, 2012)

I never said loose the muscle I said lose the fat as in drop body fat % replace that weight w muscle... Second I have all my hair what r I talking about and 10 lbs in a year natty is not unheard of u... And I have chrones in nov I was in the hospital 2 weeks lost 30 pounds it's extremely hard for me to eat and keep it down since I have the disease and lots of males w low t are not fat and sick chael sonnen had low t hes neither fat nor bald I'm done w this bro good luck to u w your goals


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## _LG_ (Mar 13, 2012)

vancouver said:


> I'm 6 weeks into my cycle, up 6lbs and 1" off my waist. Pretty well the result I was looking for, but I'm suprised how fast the progress is coming considering the haters on this thread.
> 
> New lifting stats
> 
> ...



New guys should keep in mind that the last paragraph is this guys opinion.  He is on his first cycle and knows as much about steroids as my little sister.  Please consult someone that knows what they are talking about before starting anything.  The answers are out there, go find the right ones.


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## vancouver (Mar 13, 2012)

little guy said:


> new guys should keep in mind that the last paragraph is this guys opinion. He is on his first cycle and knows as much about steroids as my little sister. Please consult someone that knows what they are talking about before starting anything. The answers are out there, go find the right ones.


 
lol!!!



little guy said:


> i don't use weights, bands and p90x.


 


Little Guy said:


> Totally serious bro, I think one 315 deadlift would pull my arms from my shoulders.


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## secdrl (Mar 19, 2012)

XYZ said:


> You mean those who have tried to help?
> 
> Let's close this thread so you're not exposed to a severe negging and / or loose your cool (AGAIN) then proceed to start dropping curse words at members whom are trying to help you.
> 
> If you would like me to re-open this please feel free to PM me at anytime.  Thanks.


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