# Dumb question on M1T and 4AD



## darklight (May 4, 2004)

Thought on running like this:

week 1-4 M1T (range of 10-15 mg)
week 1-6 4AD trensdermall (600 mg)
pct with nolva!

The question is that i sould start nolva at the end of m1t or at the end of 4ad?


By the way, how would this sound as a better choice?

week 1-6 4AD  (600 mg)
week 2-6 M1T (10/15 mg)
then pct!


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## darklight (May 4, 2004)

bump


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## kevin (May 4, 2004)

run the PCT after you are finished with everything. I ran 4 weeks of m1t with a transdermal 4ad and saw great results. I would use the m1t at the beginning of the cycle. From what i've read, the 4ad wont kick in for a few weeks anyway, so you might as well get the ball rolling with the m1t in the beginning.


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## Power Rabbit (May 4, 2004)

yup hes right...pct comes after everything, and m1t should be at the beginning to kickstart


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## darklight (May 4, 2004)

thks! 
Gonna start with this one in a few days!

week 1-6 4AD (600 mg)
week 2-6 M1T (10/15 mg)
then pct!

(Q10 and Pro Liver also)


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## JerseyDevil (May 4, 2004)

Week 1-4 M1T (range of 10-15 mg)
Week 1-6 4AD transdermal (600 mg)
pct with nolva

This cycle is the better choice.  4 weeks is the longest you want to run M1T.   6 weeks on 4AD is perfect.  Run pct with nolva at the end of week 6.


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## topolo (May 4, 2004)

and you are right that was a dumb question


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## darklight (May 4, 2004)

Wrong "copy/past" from the #1 post, thks for the rectification Jersey!


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## JerseyDevil (May 4, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by topolo *_
> and you are right that was a dumb question


There is no such thing as a dumb question... only dumb answers.  And this post is a case in point.


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## topolo (May 4, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by JerseyDevil *_
> There is no such thing as a dumb question... only dumb answers.  And this post is a case in point.




He made the comment......I only agreed with him.........back off


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## JerseyDevil (May 5, 2004)

The world is now a better place, since you offered the original poster that meaningful comment.  I stand corrected.


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## billyzane1 (May 5, 2004)

Nolva? I think that is highly debateable if you really need it. It wont hurt, but why risk it.

From what 90% of the people out there say, 6oxo is fine for short M1T cyles.

Its your call of course.


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## Larva (May 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by billyzane1 *_
> Nolva? I think that is highly debateable if you really need it. It wont hurt, but why risk it.



risk what??


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## billyzane1 (May 5, 2004)

Unless you have a prescription, one would be breaking the law.


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## JerseyDevil (May 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by billyzane1 *_
> Nolva? I think that is highly debateable if you really need it. It wont hurt, but why risk it.
> 
> From what 90% of the people out there say, 6oxo is fine for short M1T cyles.
> ...


4 weeks of M1T is not a short cycle.  In fact M1T shuts down your natural testosterone production fast.  Many have used 6-OXO with success, but I wouldn't risk it.  Nolva is proven to work.

Nolva is one of those grey areas.  While a prescription is required to obtain through a pharmacy, it is not illegal to possess.


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## billyzane1 (May 5, 2004)

cool


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## TrojanMan60563 (May 5, 2004)

The one thing I am not so sure of is that everyone says M1T and methylD shut your boys down quick. Has anyone proved this? I didn't have a problem doing a 4 weeker, and I did not have shrunken nut syndrome either. I didn't lose any of my gains either. That would tell me that my natural test was not effected.


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## X Ring (May 5, 2004)

what about running a light dose of nolva through out the cycle as some are doing with AS to keep their gains.  Is there any benefit of doing this.  I know it is 6 weeks and not the 10 or 16 as some other cycles might be.


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## JerseyDevil (May 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by TrojanMan60563 *_
> The one thing I am not so sure of is that everyone says M1T and methylD shut your boys down quick. Has anyone proved this? I didn't have a problem doing a 4 weeker, and I did not have shrunken nut syndrome either. I didn't lose any of my gains either. That would tell me that my natural test was not effected.


On the anabolicminds.com forum a guy named supersoldier did blood work every 3 or 4 days while on a 5 week M1T cycle.  He works in a lab.  He kept track of liver enyzmes, cholesterol, testosterone, estradiol, and others.  In just a matter of _days_, his test level went from 500 and something down to about 20.  Yep 20, and it stayed there.  If I recall correctly, it took close to 3 weeks AFTER the cycle end and using 40mg of Nolva ed before it finally started to rise again.  Once it started to rise, it went quickly back to normal.  Nut shrinkage is no indication on how suppressed you are.  I have no idea how m-dien shuts you down, but I believe the same guy is going to document a m-dien cycle also.


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## JerseyDevil (May 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by X Ring *_
> what about running a light dose of nolva through out the cycle as some are doing with AS to keep their gains.  Is there any benefit of doing this.  I know it is 6 weeks and not the 10 or 16 as some other cycles might be.


Running a light dose of nolva in a AS cycle is to help keep gyno issues at bay. Some use it to reduce bloat, but most say you need an anti 'a' like arimidex to successfully do this.


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## darklight (May 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by JerseyDevil *_
> did blood work every 3 or 4 days



That's a lot of tests at the end of the cycle...! Good to hear that someone did this!


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## topolo (May 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by TrojanMan60563 *_
> The one thing I am not so sure of is that everyone says M1T and methylD shut your boys down quick. Has anyone proved this? I didn't have a problem doing a 4 weeker, and I did not have shrunken nut syndrome either. I didn't lose any of my gains either. That would tell me that my natural test was not effected.





you are lucky!!! even mild ph's like paradeca and decavar shut me down.


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## TrojanMan60563 (May 5, 2004)

Well if I was shut down then I don't understand why I didn't lose any of my gains. Maybe it shuts some down and not others. I didn't get any sign that I was low on test. Its been 4 weeks since I stopped and I am still gaining strength and size. The Mdien made me real hard and tight. Some of that has went away but I am still gaining size and strength so I am not sold on the idea that my test levels were really effected by the 3mg of Mdien/150mg of 1-TU.


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## ismeefoo (May 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by TrojanMan60563 *_
> Well if I was shut down then I don't understand why I didn't lose any of my gains. Maybe it shuts some down and not others. I didn't get any sign that I was low on test. Its been 4 weeks since I stopped and I am still gaining strength and size. The Mdien made me real hard and tight. Some of that has went away but I am still gaining size and strength so I am not sold on the idea that my test levels were really effected by the 3mg of Mdien/150mg of 1-TU.



Did you do any PCT? If so what and how long?


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## Arnold (May 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by JerseyDevil *_
> On the anabolicminds.com forum a guy named supersoldier did blood work every 3 or 4 days while on a 5 week M1T cycle.  He works in a lab.  He kept track of liver enyzmes, cholesterol, testosterone, estradiol, and others.  In just a matter of _days_, his test level went from 500 and something down to about 20.  Yep 20, and it stayed there.  If I recall correctly, it took close to 3 weeks AFTER the cycle end and using 40mg of Nolva ed before it finally started to rise again.  Once it started to rise, it went quickly back to normal.  Nut shrinkage is no indication on how suppressed you are.  I have no idea how m-dien shuts you down, but I believe the same guy is going to document a m-dien cycle also.



okay, but that is the results of only ONE person.


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## TrojanMan60563 (May 6, 2004)

I don't think skimping on PCT is smart, but I didn't go all out. The only thing I did was take 6OXO 3 pills with my protein shake before bed. Doing it this way it lasted 20 days. Thats all I did. I think the key is I lift smart and eat smart to the best of my ability. Gains are made from a good diet, and I believe that is how you keep them too(unless test levels are suppressed).


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## JerseyDevil (May 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> okay, but that is the results of only ONE person.


True, but it is the only example I know of where a person had their testosterone levels checked throughout.  For whatever reason those hormonal tests are insanely expensive, so I doubt if you'll ever see anyone else do this unless they too work in a lab.

That said, I would trust his results over anecdotal evidence like someone saying "I don't feel shut down".  You know what I mean?  I have had my liver enyzmes and HDL/LDL cholesterol levels checked after M1T cycles and they were normal a few weeks after.  But get this, I had my testosterone levels checked as part of a routine check up, again about 3 weeks after the end of 4 week M1T/4AD cycle.  It came back at 126ng/dl.... way low, and I was using Nolva pct.  I am considered hypogonal btw, but my _normal_ levels are more like 270ng/dl. Does M1t shut you down?  Hell yeah it does.


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## JerseyDevil (May 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by TrojanMan60563 *_
> Well if I was shut down then I don't understand why I didn't lose any of my gains. Maybe it shuts some down and not others.


I repeat.  I am talking about M1T, not m-dien.  Many assume m-dien shuts you down just as much as M1t in the same period of time, but that may not be the case.

Why didn't you lose your gains if you were shut down?   As I'm sure you know, a long AAS cycle definitely shuts you down.  If you do proper pct, training and diet, you _should_ keep most of your gains.  Now to keep gaining size and strength, with most people that would be unusual.


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## snoops (Oct 2, 2004)

I was wondering, since my bottle of vpx's monster test says only take for 2 weeks, how long you any of you would suggest taking it


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## Purdue Power (Oct 3, 2004)

As repeatedly stated in any thread that would come up in an M1T search, 3 weeks.


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## mmorpheuss (Oct 3, 2004)

I have seen the three on recommendations for M1t, but am unsure as to whether or not to go two or three weeks off in between my three week M1t cycles.

It seems people are doing both, regardless of the time on=time off principle.

Would three on, two off, three on , four off be appropriate with M1t?  (provided, of course, that pct was used during the two weeks off?)


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## gococksDJS (Oct 3, 2004)

For best results do 4 weeks on, then run PCT. With M1T, time off should be equal to your time on and PCT as well IMO


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## Pirate! (Oct 3, 2004)

3 weeks on 
3 weeks pct
3 weeks off
Repeat


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## Purdue Power (Oct 3, 2004)

PirateFromHell said:
			
		

> 3 weeks on
> 3 weeks pct
> 3 weeks off
> Repeat


Pirate, I think it was you who told me to take off the same amount of time as my entire cycle, including the pct portion.


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## Pirate! (Oct 4, 2004)

And I repeatedly said that that is the more conservative route. There are no hard and fast rules. This guy was talking about doing 3 on, 2 pct, 3 on, and the like. Two weeks certainly isn't enough time to recover from a M1T cycle. Six weeks would be the bare minimum to recover from a 3 week cycle at low doses, IMO. So, to cover all bases, having time off = time on + time PCT is certainly preferable. There are other factors, too. If you use really high doses or do longer cycles, recovery will take longer. It seems like everyone is in such a rush to get to the next cycle. My advice is to listen to your body and take it slow. You are right, PP: the schedule I advised on this thread is very liberal, but it is much more reasonable than what he was considering. A lot of people run it like he mentioned, and it catches up to them--sometimes permanently.


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## Purdue Power (Oct 4, 2004)

I am definately waiting at least 10 weeks for my next cycle.  I am too young to risk being sterile.  My nuts shrank enough on this cycle at only 10mg/day(15/mg for 2 of those days).  I would probably do myself a favor by just going to a mild AS like winni for my next cycle.  I am sure that it would be much easier on my body.


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## mmorpheuss (Oct 4, 2004)

Thanks alot guys.


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## Pirate! (Oct 4, 2004)

Purdue Power said:
			
		

> I am definately waiting at least 10 weeks for my next cycle.  I am too young to risk being sterile.  My nuts shrank enough on this cycle at only 10mg/day(15/mg for 2 of those days).  I would probably do myself a favor by just going to a mild AS like winni for my next cycle.  I am sure that it would be much easier on my body.


 HCG for the nut shrinkage in the future. I'm not sure if sterile is the right word, but we get ya. Winni won't give you the mass that M1T will. It will give you more strength--and maybe less hair. If you go with AAS, start with test only.


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