# Insulin on cycle!!!



## strength is pain (Jun 9, 2012)

so i have started my first cycle of insulin.
Ive chosen novorapid whic is faster acting and last about 4-5hours.

My cycle will be 12 weeks in total. 

wk1-12 175mg testosterone sustanon E2D.
Wk1-4 insulin pre-workout tapering up2 10iu training days with 10g of dextrose/maltodextrin blend per iu.
wk7-12 50mg ED Tren Ace 
wk8-12 10iu insulin/10g dextrose maltodextrin.

Im not using creatine or BCAAS or glutamine while on slin but read it was good to mix with, my question is would it really make much of a difference to mix these or not.

What else can i do to gain the most of out my Insulin.

BTW its fucking amazing to train on.

Nathan


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## parsifal09 (Jun 9, 2012)

ah man, ive never taken insulin, scsared of getting really fat

i dont know, seems like u should only take insulin if ur going pro or already massive

others here know a lot mofre than me on this


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## parsifal09 (Jun 9, 2012)

maybe hypo glycemic withh comment

hes a big guy that competes

even if he doesnt use insulin, hed know how to use it,etc


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## hypo_glycemic (Jun 9, 2012)

I know a lot of guys that use insulin being non diabetic..

I wouldn't recommend it to anybody that doesn't have diabetes.

There's a number of reasons, but if you haven't done a copious style of research, you're playing with death, or a severe diabetic coma..

Like I said, some people/ competitors use but I've heard some crazy shit when things go wrong, but I don't use it.

I've used it in the past, but since good GH, I don't see the risk?


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## parsifal09 (Jun 9, 2012)

hypo, did gh give u real gains???

and how did insulin treat u?


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## hypo_glycemic (Jun 9, 2012)

parsifal09 said:


> hypo, did gh give u real gains???
> 
> and how did insulin treat u?



I think food, rest, and lots of volume give you gains you can keep. 

GH keeps me full and grainy w/ a good diet. Recovery, sleep, feeling good at 42 is the best thing about it.

If you run everything in conjunction w/ GH- the proper way- yes you can keep size and also skeletal mass as well.

IMO you shouldn't touch it unless you've had your bloods done and also find out if the pedigree in your family bloodlines don't possess any bad gene like cancer or leukemia - ala Dennis Newman!


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## parsifal09 (Jun 9, 2012)

mmmmmmmmmmm


im itching to try it

insulin too, but im much more wary of insulin. im pretty sure ill take hgh, butnot insulin


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## World-Pharma.org (Jun 9, 2012)

yes add that bcaa and glutamine+ creatin in that mixx you take after slin inject..

also add cca 40-60g proteins isolate
i suggest also 20g glutamin+10 g bcaa and 10 g creatin...


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## hypo_glycemic (Jun 9, 2012)

World-Pharma.org said:


> yes add that bcaa and glutamine+ creatin in that mixx you take after slin inject..
> 
> also add cca 40-60g proteins isolate
> i suggest also 20g glutamin+10 g bcaa and 10 g creatin...



What does that have to do w/ slin? 

It's carbs you need to worry about (after) pinning insulin?


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## Pittsburgh63 (Jun 10, 2012)

hypo_glycemic said:


> What does that have to do w/ slin?
> 
> It's carbs you need to worry about (after) pinning insulin?



x2.. haha.. Must be a translation issue.


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## ~RaZr~ (Jun 10, 2012)

hypo_glycemic said:


> What does that have to do w/ slin?
> 
> It's carbs you need to worry about (after) pinning insulin?



No shit right? Especially you boys who like to mess with rapid acting insulin. 

Without proper knowledge, your ass would be passed out on the floor before you knew what hit you


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## Pittsburgh63 (Jun 10, 2012)

~RaZr~ said:


> No shit right? Especially you boys who like to mess with rapid acting insulin.
> 
> Without proper knowledge, your ass would be passed out on the floor before you knew what hit you




Yeah... but you'll have a bunch of Amino acid, glutamine and protein in you.. so I'm sure you'll be fine.. right?  lol.


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## ~RaZr~ (Jun 10, 2012)

Pittsburgh63 said:


> Yeah... but you'll have a bunch of Amino acid, glutamine and protein in you.. so I'm sure you'll be fine.. right?  lol.



Of course lol.


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## parsifal09 (Jun 10, 2012)

who here has taken insulin and gotten good gains


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## tinyshrek (Jun 10, 2012)

Pittsburgh63 said:


> Yeah... but you'll have a bunch of Amino acid, glutamine and protein in you.. so I'm sure you'll be fine.. right?  lol.



What he is talking about is an intra workout protocol that quite a few nutritionists follow. Using HUMALOG that has a short half life around two hours, taken pre workout it will shuttle nutrients at an incredible rate. So an EXAMPLE would be:

1 hour prior to workout 10iu HUMALOG
Along with 100 simple carbs and 50g protein(from whatever sources you choose, some like shakes, some like food)

Intra workout shake: 
50-75g karbolyn
30g hydrowhey
20g aminos
10g creatine, glutamine
Reason being you have an anabolic window of around two hours so all these nutrients are getting shuttled straight to the muscles.

Post workout meal to include 100-150g carbs and 50-75g protein from whichever sources you choose. 

This is just an EXAMPLE that I have had broken down to me several times. This way you get 3 different meals in during the 2-3 hour window HUMALOG is most beneficial. Some will use Humulin R in the morning and LOG preworkout at night but that is a whole other protocol. Future Freak has some good threads and info on this topic


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## parsifal09 (Jun 10, 2012)

tiny,sweet

u ever done this?


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## tinyshrek (Jun 10, 2012)

I personally have never used slin. Got about another year of just gear, then about two more of GH and Gear before I max out wit slin. It's not as crazy deadly as people make it out to be IF you are serious about your diet and training. If ur not serious and ur an idiot then never touch it cuz u could die lol


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## hypo_glycemic (Jun 10, 2012)

^^ it's very dangerous for diabetics let a lone BB's.. 

There's a lot of ways to spike your insulin levels other than slin , and if you're going to use it, be careful of what your blood sugar levels are before pinning and have a ready-to-go carb solution incase your sugar levels go out of whack after!!!!


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## littlekev (Jun 10, 2012)

Hope op is testing and monitoring his blood glucose......


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## World-Pharma.org (Jun 10, 2012)

tinyshrek said:


> what he is talking about is an intra workout protocol that quite a few nutritionists follow. Using humalog that has a short half life around two hours, taken pre workout it will shuttle nutrients at an incredible rate. So an example would be:
> 
> 1 hour prior to workout 10iu humalog
> along with 100 simple carbs and 50g protein(from whatever sources you choose, some like shakes, some like food)
> ...





big big bump!!! This man know what he talk!


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## Goldenera (Jun 10, 2012)

tinyshrek said:


> What he is talking about is an intra workout protocol that quite a few nutritionists follow. Using HUMALOG that has a short half life around two hours, taken pre workout it will shuttle nutrients at an incredible rate. So an EXAMPLE would be:
> 
> 1 hour prior to workout 10iu HUMALOG
> Along with 100 simple carbs and 50g protein(from whatever sources you choose, some like shakes, some like food)
> ...



Solid post!!  That's the point of using the slin guys. Nutrient shuttling during the Anabolic window.


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## Name's Dalton (Jun 14, 2012)

tinyshrek said:


> I personally have never used slin. Got about another year of just gear, then about two more of GH and Gear before I max out wit slin. It's not as crazy deadly as people make it out to be IF you are serious about your diet and training. If ur not serious and ur an idiot then never touch it cuz u could die lol


THANK YOU!!! It seems every post about Insulin should come with a skull & crossbones image.  You know what else can kill ya?  Driving a car - if you're an idiot.  Etc.  I've used insulin for two separate cycles now (am on my second one, in fact) and aside from low-blood sugar incident (always nice to keep OJ or a regular root beer on hand), I'd had no issues.  Just gains.

And as far as taking only sugar while on insulin, the point of taking slin for me is to shuttle greater amounts of aminos/protein and other nutrients into my cells, using the carbs and insulin as the catalyst.  

Where I'd like to hear feedback on the timing is from guys who prefer to take it pre-workout versus those who take it post-workout.  I inject 10 IU of Humulin-R (it's cheap and I don't need a prescription to buy it OTC from Wal-Mart) before my first meal of the day (90 grams of grits plus 30 grams of raisins as carb source, and either a fast-acting whey or 15 egg whites as protein source) and then eat pretty much the same thing for my next meal.  

Lately, I've been injecting 10 IU of slin post-workout along with 5 IU of HGH, using 100 grams of Karbolyn and two scoops of Cell-Kem.  

I am going to switch to a pre-workout in a couple of weeks to see if I get better results that way.


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## XYZ (Jun 14, 2012)

~RaZr~ said:


> No shit right? Especially you boys who like to mess with rapid acting insulin.
> 
> *Without proper knowledge, your ass would be passed out on the floor before you knew what hit you *



Again, what does that have to do with using insulin?

If you don't know how to use it you shouldn't, PERIOD.


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## XYZ (Jun 14, 2012)

tinyshrek said:


> What he is talking about is an intra workout protocol that quite a few nutritionists follow. Using HUMALOG that has a short half life around two hours, taken pre workout it will shuttle nutrients at an incredible rate. So an EXAMPLE would be:
> 
> 1 hour prior to workout 10iu HUMALOG
> Along with 100 simple carbs and 50g protein(from whatever sources you choose, some like shakes, some like food)
> ...




There is some serious misinformation in that post.

Seeing that insulin can kill you I would like for the safest possble information to be avaliable, this is not.

Sorry Bro, you know I respect you and your knowledge but this is just bad information.


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## XYZ (Jun 14, 2012)

strength is pain said:


> so i have started my first cycle of insulin.
> Ive chosen novorapid whic is faster acting and last about 4-5hours.
> 
> My cycle will be 12 weeks in total.
> ...



Sorry bro, with all due respect training after injecting insulin is just too dangerous for most.  The pumps are terrible and the overall feeling on slin is bad.

I've personally done it a number of ways and this way is by far the most dangerous by far.


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## heavyiron (Jun 14, 2012)

hypo_glycemic said:


> What does that have to do w/ slin?
> 
> It's carbs you need to worry about (after) pinning insulin?



He's posting in addition to the dextrose. Adding the BCAA's, Glutamine and Creatine. It's very common to shuttle these nutrients and then later use a whey isolate shake.

I use Gatorade with my BCAA's, Glutamine and Creatine. 

This is all Post training.


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## tinyshrek (Jun 14, 2012)

XYZ said:


> There is some serious misinformation in that post.
> 
> Seeing that insulin can kill you I would like for the safest possble information to be avaliable, this is not.
> 
> Sorry Bro, you know I respect you and your knowledge but this is just bad information.



Explain this to me XYZ, as SEVERAL competitive BBERS have used very similar protocols?? Milos Sarcev preaches this protocol. Future freak has posted similar info in his threads. So what is the bad information?


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## ~RaZr~ (Jun 14, 2012)

XYZ said:


> Again, what does that have to do with using insulin?
> 
> If you don't know how to use it you shouldn't, PERIOD.



Exactly and that's what my post meant. If you don't know how to use the stuff, don't fuck with it.

All it takes is a few too many "units" and you could be royally screwed.


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## withoutrulers (Jun 15, 2012)

Isn't one of the dangers of pinning slin preworkout going hypo? Can't you potentially get hypoglycemic  from workouts alone?


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## XYZ (Jun 15, 2012)

tinyshrek said:


> Explain this to me XYZ, as SEVERAL competitive BBERS have used very similar protocols?? Milos Sarcev preaches this protocol. Future freak has posted similar info in his threads. So what is the bad information?




First, injecting insulin pre-workout is dangerous, hypo issues along with pumps so bad you can't move doesn't make much sense to me.  Can it be done and effective?  Sure.  Stupid but sure.  It's just not very safe in my opinion, even with the right supplies right next to you.  Insulin cause many to become lethargic as well, not a good combination when lifting.

Second, if the humalog starts working within 5 minutes of injection, why are you pinning it 60 mins BEFORE training?  Makes no sense, even if the half life is 2 hours.  Everyone will react different to different doses so a blanket statement is not the best answer.  Maybe I'm missing something or you just made a summary of a larger post?

Last, the 30g hydro is overkill.  20g of BCAA'S is more than enough to get the job done.  I guess it doesn't hurt, but whatever.

The main problem or issue I have with giving out insulin advice is that too many "n00bs" will come on here and read something, go full on with it and get sloppy.  That leads to one thing.  I personally am not very comfortable with that and I know everyone has to do their homework, but as you know that is hardly the case.


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## XYZ (Jun 15, 2012)

~RaZr~ said:


> Exactly and that's what my post meant. If you don't know how to use the stuff, don't fuck with it.
> 
> All it takes is a few too many "units" and you could be royally screwed.



OK, My bad.  I guess I must have read it wrong.  Sorry Bro.


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## XYZ (Jun 15, 2012)

withoutrulers said:


> Isn't one of the dangers of pinning slin preworkout going hypo? Can't you potentially get hypoglycemic  from workouts alone?



Yes, that is the biggest danger, but you can go hypo anywhere anytime if the timing or carb ratios are off, pre or post workout.  It's happened to me before and it was scary as hell.  I trainind first thing in the AM fasted and didn't take into consideration the advanced "depleted" state I was in.  I took in all the correct amounts of everything but missing that 40-60g of carbs before lifting put my blood sugar levels much lower than normal.

Sides (for me anyhow) were massive sweating, confusion, fuzzy headed, dizzy and ringing ears.  It all stopped about 5 mins after slamming some carbs.


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## tinyshrek (Jun 15, 2012)

XYZ said:


> First, injecting insulin pre-workout is dangerous, hypo issues along with pumps so bad you can't move doesn't make much sense to me.  Can it be done and effective?  Sure.  Stupid but sure.  It's just not very safe in my opinion, even with the right supplies right next to you.  Insulin cause many to become lethargic as well, not a good combination when lifting.
> 
> Second, if the humalog starts working within 5 minutes of injection, why are you pinning it 60 mins BEFORE training?  Makes no sense, even if the half life is 2 hours.  Everyone will react different to different doses so a blanket statement is not the best answer.  Maybe I'm missing something or you just made a summary of a larger post?
> 
> ...



Got ya XYZ, makes total sense especially with the noobs and all the irresponsible gear dosing around here, let alone slin.


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## DOBE (Jun 16, 2012)

The key here is to educate yourself about anything youre gonna do, I understand some folks are hesitant to give out slin advise but really there are plenty of protocols online already. As many of you already know, slin,creatine, test, tren ,eq, anavar etc. all work really well together. whether you choose to do slin pre or post workout is really dependent on your knowlege of the subject and how well you know your own body remember protocols are guidelines for us to follow but everyone is different you gotta be in tune with what your body is trying to tell you and make adjustments accordingly. most pre workout protocols call for a carb load before the workout and drinking carb drinks during and after so as not to go hypo. in all honesty this has worked really well for me. If your gonna do slin anyway despite all the warnings ( as I did) please exersize caution do not become complacent always keep a carb source on hand gummi bears etc and listen to what your body is telling you.


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## TheFlyingHammer (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm a newb here (and to AAS in general) but I have seen ridiculously huge gains resulting from slin use and would consider running it but only on the condition that I have a training partner with me who knows what I'd pinned in the case of a hypo. I trained with a friend who was running slin as a booster to his test cycle and that was my role, to observe him and if necessary load him with glucogel and inform medics of his slin use incase he collapsed. I cannot stress enough the importance of having someone with you who knows of your use if you choose to go down the slin road regardless of whether your pinning it pre or post workout. I'd also advise testing your insulin sensitivity before you go ahead and hit the gym by pinning 1-2IU to see how you feel as even as little as 4-5IU can be sufficient to get good results. I regard starting out on 8-10IU as stupidity really as even insulin dependant diabetics can go into a hypo from 10IU depending on their regular dose. My girlfriend is insulin dependant and I have seen this happen to her so it could be potentially lethal to a non diabetic. There's no harm in starting ona small test dose to guage yourself but jumping in the deep end is hard to reverse and very dangerouis. Bottom line is, people will do what they will so it's infinitely more sensible to inform and educate (not that I proclaim to be an authority) rather than just post the "slin will kill you!" line I so often see. To those who are planning on using slin be sure to use a fast acting type (Novorapid, Humalog) as using the wrong type (Lantus solostar for eg.) will affect you in a completely different way and any protocol you are following will be of no help in keeping you from falling into a hypo. Stay safe...


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## Coop817 (Jun 18, 2012)

I saw a post yesterday from a guy who posted a laundry list of AAS items he already purchased,(zero AIs)  asking how to set up his cycle.......It may have been the worst combination of drugs, let alone for someone's first cycle....These are the guys that will die from slin.....  "Hey I just bought a bunch of slin and did my first inject, now what"....


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## parsifal09 (Jun 18, 2012)

i have a question

does  exogenous insulin use by non diabetics cause diabetes????

if the answer  is yes,ill definitely never be taking insulin, no matter how great the gains are


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## tinyshrek (Jun 18, 2012)

TheFlyingHammer said:


> I'm a newb here (and to AAS in general) but I have seen ridiculously huge gains resulting from slin use and would consider running it but only on the condition that I have a training partner with me who knows what I'd pinned in the case of a hypo. I trained with a friend who was running slin as a booster to his test cycle and that was my role, to observe him and if necessary load him with glucogel and inform medics of his slin use incase he collapsed. I cannot stress enough the importance of having someone with you who knows of your use if you choose to go down the slin road regardless of whether your pinning it pre or post workout. I'd also advise testing your insulin sensitivity before you go ahead and hit the gym by pinning 1-2IU to see how you feel as even as little as 4-5IU can be sufficient to get good results. I regard starting out on 8-10IU as stupidity really as even insulin dependant diabetics can go into a hypo from 10IU depending on their regular dose. My girlfriend is insulin dependant and I have seen this happen to her so it could be potentially lethal to a non diabetic. There's no harm in starting ona small test dose to guage yourself but jumping in the deep end is hard to reverse and very dangerouis. Bottom line is, people will do what they will so it's infinitely more sensible to inform and educate (not that I proclaim to be an authority) rather than just post the "slin will kill you!" line I so often see. To those who are planning on using slin be sure to use a fast acting type (Novorapid, Humalog) as using the wrong type (Lantus solostar for eg.) will affect you in a completely different way and any protocol you are following will be of no help in keeping you from falling into a hypo. Stay safe...



This is the exact thing XYZ is talking bout bro.... Your new to the game and already taking slin, just stupid. You would grow like a weed without it


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## Coop817 (Jun 18, 2012)

TheFlyingHammer said:


> I'm a newb here (and to AAS in general) but I have seen ridiculously huge gains resulting from slin use and would consider running it but only on the condition that I have a training partner with me who knows what I'd pinned in the case of a hypo. I trained with a friend who was running slin as a booster to his test cycle and that was my role, to observe him and if necessary load him with glucogel and inform medics of his slin use incase he collapsed. I cannot stress enough the importance of having someone with you who knows of your use if you choose to go down the slin road regardless of whether your pinning it pre or post workout. I'd also advise testing your insulin sensitivity before you go ahead and hit the gym by pinning 1-2IU to see how you feel as even as little as 4-5IU can be sufficient to get good results. I regard starting out on 8-10IU as stupidity really as even insulin dependant diabetics can go into a hypo from 10IU depending on their regular dose. My girlfriend is insulin dependant and I have seen this happen to her so it could be potentially lethal to a non diabetic. There's no harm in starting ona small test dose to guage yourself but jumping in the deep end is hard to reverse and very dangerouis. Bottom line is, people will do what they will so it's infinitely more sensible to inform and educate (not that I proclaim to be an authority) rather than just post the "slin will kill you!" line I so often see. To those who are planning on using slin be sure to use a fast acting type (Novorapid, Humalog) as using the wrong type (Lantus solostar for eg.) will affect you in a completely different way and any protocol you are following will be of no help in keeping you from falling into a hypo. Stay safe...




change your avi to The-Dying-Hammer


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## XYZ (Jun 18, 2012)

parsifal09 said:


> i have a question
> 
> does  exogenous insulin use by non diabetics cause diabetes????
> 
> if the answer  is yes,ill definitely never be taking insulin, no matter how great the gains are



If abused very hard, or used for a very long time, yes, it's possible.

For the average user of PWO only for 4 weeks, no.


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## XYZ (Jun 18, 2012)

TheFlyingHammer said:


> I'm a newb here (and to AAS in general) but I have seen ridiculously huge gains resulting from slin use and would consider running it but only on the condition that I have a training partner with me who knows what I'd pinned in the case of a hypo. I trained with a friend who was running slin as a booster to his test cycle and that was my role, to observe him and if necessary load him with glucogel and inform medics of his slin use incase he collapsed. I cannot stress enough the importance of having someone with you who knows of your use if you choose to go down the slin road regardless of whether your pinning it pre or post workout. I'd also advise testing your insulin sensitivity before you go ahead and hit the gym by pinning 1-2IU to see how you feel as even as little as 4-5IU can be sufficient to get good results. I regard starting out on 8-10IU as stupidity really as even insulin dependant diabetics can go into a hypo from 10IU depending on their regular dose. My girlfriend is insulin dependant and I have seen this happen to her so it could be potentially lethal to a non diabetic. There's no harm in starting ona small test dose to guage yourself but jumping in the deep end is hard to reverse and very dangerouis. Bottom line is, people will do what they will so it's infinitely more sensible to inform and educate (not that I proclaim to be an authority) rather than just post the "slin will kill you!" line I so often see. To those who are planning on using slin be sure to use a fast acting type (Novorapid, Humalog) as using the wrong type (Lantus solostar for eg.) will affect you in a completely different way and any protocol you are following will be of no help in keeping you from falling into a hypo. Stay safe...




LOL, Good luck.


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## DOBE (Jun 18, 2012)

A lot of great discussion here. If this is your first, second, third, fourth cycle you dont need slin. actually you never "need" slin but for those of you whom will do it anyway let me just say that I had been cycling for fifteen years before I ever tried it and it was after much research and study that I finally got up the nerve to try it. Dont get me wrong I am by no means an expert but I know enough to get through a cycle safely, not making a reccomendation here, just in agreement with most of you guys that if you're not experienced with this stuff give it some time or dont mess with it at all.


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## blergs. (Jun 18, 2012)

I always say this on slin: NOT WORTH IT.
run an AI for water if needed and throw in some igf1lr3.
just my op though


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## TheFlyingHammer (Jun 18, 2012)

Are you cheeseknobs who quoted my post illiterate? I said I was training with a friend who used slin acting as a go to if he collapsed, not using it myself. Learn to read before you copy and paste.


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## tinyshrek (Jun 18, 2012)

Read the first few sentences of ur post and tell me how that sounds bro


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## TheFlyingHammer (Jun 19, 2012)

Yeah I apologise my bad. Guess it was open to misinterpretation. No bad feelings huh? very agro lately. Basically just trying to caution anyone who is thinking of using it. I have seen a mate go from really big to f*cking huge by adding slin to his test cycle but I haven't gone there myself and until I have a greater amount of experience with other compounds I think I'll keep it that way. Just thought I'd add my 2 cents on the subject though as having a trained with a slin user and having a diabetic girlfriend has given me a bit of insight into the stuff.


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## tinyshrek (Jun 19, 2012)

It's all gravy


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## Name's Dalton (Jun 19, 2012)

tinyshrek said:


> It's all gravy



I'm supposed to take gravy PWO with my slin?  Shee-it.


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## tinyshrek (Jun 19, 2012)

Gravy on the Face!


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## Scotjk (Sep 5, 2012)

I am doing HGH now with no insulin.  Wondering how much insulin I should use with HGH to get best results... Do not want lots of side effects - ie water and fat gain with it.  Not an expert at this at all, am 63 years old...do test 2x aweek...nothing else right now. I want to be freaking big
Scotjk


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## pieguy (Sep 6, 2012)

basskilleronline.com insulin section. if you can't even answer those questions on your own, you're probably not ready to use insulin. don't be stupid and kill yourself.


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## overburdened (Sep 6, 2012)

strength is pain said:


> so i have started my first cycle of insulin.
> Ive chosen novorapid whic is faster acting and last about 4-5hours.
> 
> My cycle will be 12 weeks in total.
> ...


Insulin is one of, if not the most anabolic hormone in your body... however, it is not preferential to fat over muscle, so you really need to eat extra clean on it in order to not get fat......  
Your stats aren't up, so I couldn't tell you if that is how much you should be using, or if it is less or more...  also, aas experience would be a plus to know as well for giving advice...

Yes, creatine works so much better with insulin, it's really hard to put into words the amount the insulin helps creatine...  I would recommend using krealkalyn to avoid bloat with it... as the insulin is going to bloat you to some degree already...  3-4.5g of krealkalyn daily is sufficient, and will work tremendously well with the insulin(I would take half of it with each dose of insulin...

One thing you really can't stress enough is not to take the insulin pre-workout(not immediately pre- workout), it can cause your blood sugar to crash and actually make you pass out, if you are training on it....(most people get pretty low blood sugar by the time they are done working out anyway...  between the low blood sugar, and high amts of lactic acid, this is usually what gives most people a nauseous feeling, especially on big muscle groups(legs and back for example).. you are dropping blood sugar more, as well as producing more lactic acid(I nearly always puke doing legs, regardless that I eat right before I train.. it's due to the two aforementioned things)...  if you are going to work out at say, noon(on your lunch break)... the insulin you take at breakfast will have fully loaded your muscles, and you will get the same pump you would if you took it 30min-1hr pre- workout... you just don't have nearly the likelihood of crashing your blood sugar during training(as long as you eat breakfast between 6-8am.... ), that gives your body enough time to clear most of the active life of the insulin.

also, generally(and everyone reacts a little differently, but you dont want to screw this up... using a glucometer for the first time of using insulin... and EVERY time is even better... (by first time, I mean the entire run.. 4 weeks each, in your case)  and checking blood sugar every 30 minutes the first several times you administer it, just so you can make sure you aren't dropping your BG(blood glucose) too low, and also, so you get a feel for what syptoms to be aware of(and you can puposefully let it get low, as long as you are at home, have juice handy, as well as some whole food....  so you can pull it back up quickly...  but doing this once or twice on pupose(let it get down in the 50's and 60's... keep in mind, anything under 40 is considered danger range for hitting an insulin coma.... so don't let it get to low 50's, just let it get kinda low(55-60) so you know what it feels like, so you are aware of what is going on, should these symptoms present theirself at a time you are not ready for it....)....  

when I use insulin, I use it IM, rather than subq.. it's onset is nearly identical(time between administration and first 'peak') as subq, but I feel it works better as far as keeping you more lean than subq use(this may or may not be true, but it seems to work that way in me, so that is how I choose to use it, on the rare occasion I do....)

also, and this is important!!!!!!  take it BEFORE YOU EAT!!!!  if you eat, then take it, your body has released it's own insulin already!!  you are adding to that, and asking for a catastrophe!!!  once you have administered it several times, and used your glucometer every ten minutes or so, you will find 'your' onset time(everyone is slightly different, and every type of insulin is FAR different!!!)  I find that my 'onset' time with novolin R is 20 minutes to 1st peak, and roughly 90 to second peak... the second peak can be GREATLY different based on level of activity(this is why I DON'T take insulin on days I have to work while it is active in my body... if you have to bust your butt for a while, you WILL crash(this is why you shouldn't take it preworkout... it amplifies its effects, and will crash your BG!!!)  you NEED to know your onset and peak times... some insulin will peak several times...(novolin 70/30 or nph will last 12+hrs and peak NUMEROUS times.. but the peaks are slightly diminished, and you actually can work out, as long as you take plenty of 'sugar' sources, and a good protein source with you )...  you will notice 70/30 keeps you much leaner... but, at the same time, I am sure it is riskier for shutting down your pancreatic production of insulin... due to it's prolonged 'active' time... your body's feedback loop will stop production more than it would with R or insulin glulisine(the FASTEST insulin available, fastest onset, and shortest active life).

The next dosing, (this is how I do it) is post workout... KEEP IN MIND, YOUR BODY IS HIGHLY INSULIN SENSITIVE IMMEDIATELY POST WORKOUT... THIS IS THE HIGHEST SENSITIVITY TIME!!!! now, I keep my dose to 10iu(TOPS) post workout, I use it immediately upon cessation of workout, and eat 15 min later(it's onset is slightly lessened(time) post workout...)... then feed the insulin!  this means a post workout shake(and I recommend a mixed protein, as in whey, casein, egg.....) the insulin will 'push' all this protein into muscles(preferentially, over fat, at this time of day... this is the best time to take advantage of that!!!  other parts of the day, it is not so preferential(however, androgens, and highly anabolic compounds tend to make muscle the preferential source of macronutrient 'push'... including 'healthy fats', flax oil, mct's, safflower oil(very high in efa's), peanut butter... etc, etc...(I'll get into fats that will help nutrient partitioning toward the end of this post... these are necessary for good health, and they can make insulin become better at pushing nutrients to muscle over fat... and help with that, even in the absence exogenous insulin use)  the post workout shake should have 20g of carbs(a mixture of dextrose(or glucose), and complex carbs is good... post workout, 70%sugar, and 30%complex is almost optimal, since you are preferentially sending it to muscle, it helps glycogen load quickly... you will notice you stay pumped long after the workout by doing this)

Don't ever take insulin before bed!!!  you can possibly slip into a coma and die in your sleep!!!

One neat aspect of insulin(exogenous use) is that is helps prevent gluconeogenesis in the liver(which means it helps keep your body from converting protein to sugar... which leaves more protein for anabolism...)  Your liver is HIGHLY efficient at converting certain aminos into glucose, when your body needs them.. and sometimes even when it doesn't...  anyone who has done a keto diet(correctly) can attest to the fact that one minute you can show high ketones in your urine, and(without eating carbs), can show low or moderate ketones a little later... this is due to one or more of several factors... either stored glucose(in liver or skeletal muscle.. generally in the form of glycogen, if coming from skeletal muscle) is released to the bloodstream(and it is usually the liver that this is coming from... generally you wont see ketones til muscle glycogen is depleted...) or, your liver starts converting aminos to glucose, and releasing them to the bloodstream, either to feed the brain glucose, or to regulate blood sugar in general, and bring it up, via gluconeogenesis....  this can be deterred, with using very small amts of insulin while dieting on a keto diet... (you can get to full ketosis a little more quickly, and at the same time, spare muscle protein(as this is where the liver pulls from many times to undertake this process.... that is why, without anabolics, it is easy to lose muscle on keto diets... especially when not done properly).....  Your brain requires glucose to survive.. so don't take this to extremes... reload within 24 hours of hitting ketosis!!!(especially if using insulin to aid in ketosis.. as your liver is NOT ABLE TO PRODUCE GLUCOSE WHEN INSULIN IS PRESENT IN THE BLOODSTREAM!!!!)

So, I'll get into fats a little... essential fatty acids are necessary for survival, period!!(hence the name 'essential fatty acids).  the makeup of every cell membrane in your body is a good portion efa's.... or lipoproteins(these are specialized molecules that are made up of protein and fat.... generally one end being one, the other end being the other, but not always...)  these serve a special purpose in and of theirselves... they generally make one end have an affinity for water(or water soluble compounds), and the other end hydrophobic(doesn't 'like' water).. these are extensively used in cell membranes, and allow for function of the cell(and help control the shape, function, and osmotic potential of the cell...  This is impossible without efa's!!!!  In addition, certain types of fats(many of which are MCT's(medium chain triglycerides) are well suited for energy purposes within the body, and each cell, and are nearly incapable of being stored as bodyfat!  substances such as coconut oil is full of mct's!(this is why it is good when eating very little carbs... it is easy for your body to use them as fuel, and they actually 'switch' your body into fat burning mode, by making fat the preferential source of energy(because they are so easily used as such...)...  efa's, same deal.. they are nearly impossible to store as fat, and they will help with 'nutrient partitioning'(the preferential shuttling of nutrient toward muscles, over fat...  they help insulin aid in nutrient partitioning too!!!  so they will help you stay lean while taking insulin(as well as when not taking exogenous insulin).....
....
One last thing.... insulin 'potentiators'.... alpha lipoic acid(one of the best.. almost in line with prescription oral antidiabetic meds(glucophage, etc)..  it is best to get a feel for insulin without any type of 'potentiator' first!!!  then you can(when you can stay home, and monitor your blood glucose, and 'feed the insulin' when necessary).. start at 25-50mg of ALA(alpha lipoic acid), and see how much you need to either drop the insulin, or increase food intake(it is not necessary to 'feed' insulin with sugar, unless you have dropped your BG low, and need to pick it up quick...)  you can 'feed' insulin full, whole, well balanced meals.... protein, fats, and carbs will bring blood sugar up.. don't just load up on carbs when you take insulin.  Let it shuttle all the macro's(and krealkalyn) into your muscles!  it is a common misbelief that you MUST use only carbs to bring up blood sugar... the best way to stay lean taking insulin, is to eat nicely balanced meals(when bulking... and this greatly depends on the individual!  you should combine your foods into a macro breakdown of 40/30/30protein/carb/fat(with special attention paid to making sure you have plenty of efa's, and plenty of fiber(and you don't NECESSARILY need to count fiber calories toward your total intake.. as it is an aid in digestion, and proper nutrient absorption, rather than actually being used as energy.. you can if you like.. but whether you do, or dont.. pick a method, and stick with it!)... this ratio will generally keep you lean and not lead to excessive bloat...(there are several other things you can do to help keep bloat down.... keep sodium consistent(high, mod, or low...although low is not highly conducive to getting good gains... but choose a range, and stay in that range.. it is going back and forth that causes water retention!),  keep carb sources whole foods(as well as everything else... but carbs in particular have the possibility of really causing a lot of bloat if you are eating a lot of processed ones... stick with whole food sources(rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes, broccoli, greens, etc.. buy fresh or frozen(if you can't get it fresh)... this will REALLY help!... eliminate dairy completely!(you have no idea how much this will help til you do it for a week or so.. your body looks so much better when you are dairy free!!!  keep an eye out for 'hidden sources!).. dont eat protein bars!(they are worse than the worst of powders, for the most part!!)... stay away from straight whey.. use a blended protein(this will help immensely!  pro complex(or procomplex gainer) are excellent proteins!!(made by optimum nutrition).... some of the more popular proteins(such as muscle milk... and that bullshit six-star whey.. sold at walmart!)  are horrible protein supplements... they taste good(muscle milk does anyway.. to most people...).. this doesn't mean they are good protein!!!  switch to ON pro-complex for a month(from whatever you are using now), and you will see what I mean!!

this is what I can think of off top of my head.. let me know if you have more questions...


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## overburdened (Sep 6, 2012)

Scotjk said:


> I am doing HGH now with no insulin.  Wondering how much insulin I should use with HGH to get best results... Do not want lots of side effects - ie water and fat gain with it.  Not an expert at this at all, am 63 years old...do test 2x aweek...nothing else right now. I want to be freaking big
> Scotjk


At 63, you are in a position where nearly anything can be a catch 22.... you will experience sides from anything you take, and your body isn't in such a position as it was 30 yrs ago to really deal with anything harsh(I def would not screw with insulin at your age... it would be far easier to shut down your pancreas!!!)  It's exptremely hard to gain high quality weight being a diabetic... ask any diabetic that lifts...  I would stick with test, var, turinabol, proviron, and possibly deca and eq.... nothing much more harsh than that....


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## overburdened (Sep 6, 2012)

withoutrulers said:


> Isn't one of the dangers of pinning slin preworkout going hypo? Can't you potentially get hypoglycemic  from workouts alone?


yes, and most people are hypo to some degree or another post wo... they just dont realize it because it isn't low enough for the telltale signs, and/or they dont use a glucometer to see what it is


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## Diamondbody (May 1, 2013)

You really seem to know what you are talking about Overburdened!

I am a 23 year old male who are considering insulin use.
This is not something I will do without proper research, but maybe you can help me answer a few questions first?

Stats: 

Ectomorph
192cm
93kg
8-10 % body fat

I am currently on week 5 of a test e cycle, how will this affect an insulin cycle, and at which week would be the best to start slin?
Will 4 weeks of slin be optimal?
Is it possible to get diabetes, how to reduce risk?
Will I fuck up my metabolism, so that even when I'm off slin I might get fatter?
What gains can I expect?
You seem to take two different dosages of slin during the day, why?
During the post workout meal, can i eat a lot of food like I am used to?


I have done one previous cycle of sustanon before current cycle.
A friend is diabetic, and says he can help me with everything, but I like to get my information from different sources.

Thanks in advance for good answers
Greetings from Norway!


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## jay_steel (May 1, 2013)

i would do GH before SLIN any day...

with that being said i have a bottle of humalin -r just looking at me. Should i crack it or should i go for humalog? Also another thing to think about this may sound dumb, but i like to do things right. How long will i run it for? How many tubs of Karbolyn, creatine, and bcaa will i need to optimize slin and run it safe? Can i all ways have food on me (carbs) Those are reasons why I am holding back until i get my six pack bag so i can ensure all my macros are flawless and im well organized. Also buying Karbolyn with every extra $ i have. I am up to 3 tubs right now. I want as many on hand as possible. Last thing I want to do is run into a situation where I am out and need more. I am all ways prepared if you saw my pantry you would freak probably 40lbs of different types of protein. 

But yeah this shit scares the shit out me of more then test did before i first pinned.

My big concern is I train at 6pm and finish at 730ish... I have humalin which lasts 6 hours this would put it still active in my while I am asleep, which is what has me scared. So a few protocals I came up with..

Pin at 5pm 50 karbolyn 2 slices of Ezekiel break or white rice, whey, bcaa, creatine, 10iu hgh.
6pm 50mg karbolyn plus pre workout (iforce humavol, non stim)
6:45pm 50mg karbolyn, whey, and creatine
730: 50mg karbolyn and whey
9pm dinner
11pm whey

or 

pin at 730 with 100mg karbolyn 60 whey, creatine, bcaa 10 iu hgh
9pm dinner
11 pm 50 carbs 60 whey


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## Night_Wolf (May 1, 2013)

Humulin R is fine, no need for humalog. Also I wouldn't waste money on Karbolyn bro! Thats gimmick! Even malto/dex would be great, don't waste money 
Slin is really safe if u are not moron, is impossible to do it  wrong if u are not 15 yr old retard. Just inject and eat/drink carbs, whats the problem? I did slin and lived.
Lots of diabetics do it daily, lots of them old senile 70yr olds, u r a smart guy, u will be fine.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk


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## Night_Wolf (May 1, 2013)

Jay_steel
How much slin is that for u? I see 200g karbolyn and 2 pcs of bread. That can easily cover probably 30iu.

One more thing, I wouldnt run slin if someone is above 7% and watery.
6 weeks is fine, even 4. I like metformin of slin.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk


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## jay_steel (May 1, 2013)

Night_Wolf said:


> Jay_steel
> How much slin is that for u? I see 200g karbolyn and 2 pcs of bread. That can easily cover probably 30iu.
> 
> One more thing, I wouldnt run slin if someone is above 7% and watery.
> ...



its for 15iu's the extra carbs are precautionary and also this is my bulk, I am probably 8% right now and don't want to go past 10% during this bulk. Goal is to hit 230 this bulk at 10%. I would like to stay at 9% so that when i do my prep next its easier to reach 3% bf and come in shredded as fuck. I am still gathering research, which is why i am not jumping into it and picking brains.

my diet will consist of mostly carbs and protein really low fat. no fat after the slin injection.


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## Mike Arnold (May 1, 2013)

strength is pain said:


> so i have started my first cycle of insulin.
> Ive chosen novorapid whic is faster acting and last about 4-5hours.
> 
> My cycle will be 12 weeks in total.
> ...




You absolutely MUST use either EAA's & additional Luecine (not just BCAA's) with your insulin...not just carbs. The entire point of using insulin is to stimulate protein synthesis. By neglecting to include the element which does so, you are somewhat defeating the purpose.

Also, novorapid stay active for about 2-3 hours at best....not 5 hours. I know some of the literature says up to 5 hours, but so little of the insulin remains beynd 3 hours that is doesn't really matter. Next, don't use dextrose...it is a simple sugar. When you eat your regular meals, do you eat a bunch of sugar as your sole source of carbohydrate? Or, do you eat a buinch of complex carbs? You eat complex carbs...rice, potatoes, pasta, etc....because they work much better for increasing muscle fullness and overall recovery. Would you ever eat nothing buta bunch of jelly beans for one of your meals? No....so why are you doing ot now? The entire dextrose fad was misguided and not even close to the best way to increase fullness, increase recovery, or add muscle tissue. The ONLY reason people used to think it was good to use dextrose is because it digests quickly. They figured that after a workout, you need a carb that is quickly digesting...and dextrose is...so they started using that. However, this only addresses one part of the issue. Yes, it digests quickly for post-workout repeair, but the carb itself is shit and does a horrible job at just about everything else! 

We now have much better carbs for post-workout recovery, especially when used with insulin. The branched cycli dextrins ar excellent. Gaspari and VPX have their own versions of this type of carb. It not only works 3X better for increasing muscle fullness, recovery, and growth, but it digests 2X faster than dextrose. The days of dextrose are over...dead...never to come again.

You definitely want to use creatine with your slin...for SURE! This is the perfect condition under which to use creatine. Lastly, you should certainly include Leucine, as it is the only amino acid capable of stimulating protein synthesis. Basically, your insulin program SUCKS! There are many other things you could add to your insulin, but these 3 following things are indipensible. Below you will find a basic, easy to follow program for a 175-225 lb BB'r, which gives great results

45 minutes pre-workout: 12 IU HumulinR
15 minutes pre-workout: 50 grams branched cyclic dextrins, 10 grams hydrolyzed protein, 5 grams micronized creatine, 5 grams leucine.
60 minutes after 1st shake: 50 grams branched cyclic dextrins, 10 grams hydrolyzed protein.
60 minutes after 2nd shake: 50 grams branched cyclic dextrins, 10 grams hydrolyzed protein.

* Carb content should be tailored to need.  Often, the amount of carbs that should be consumed around workouts during a mass-building phase significantly exceeds the amount required to meet the insulin demand.  For example, a 225 lb BB'r might decide to use 12 IU of insulin.  The amount of carbs required to meet that inslin emand might be only 100 grams (note: inslin sensitivity will vary from person to person), but that does NOT mean the BB'r should only consume 100 grams of carbs during that period.  Such a BB'r might need around 200 grams of carbs or more in order to achieve optimal growth & recovery.


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## Standard Donkey (May 1, 2013)

Mike Arnold is the man.. his guidance helped me through my first insulin cycle


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## Mike Arnold (May 1, 2013)

Night_Wolf said:


> Jay_steel
> How much slin is that for u? I see 200g karbolyn and 2 pcs of bread. That can easily cover probably 30iu.
> 
> One more thing, I wouldnt run slin if someone is above 7% and watery.
> ...



Above 7%?  Very few BB'rs have a genuine BF% of 7% or lower unless they are 4-7 weeks out from a contest.  Just about all of our pros are above 7% in the off-season, while most range between 10-12%...and a decent percentange go even higher.  Many (not all) of them use slin.  The reality is that reasonable slin use makes the physique look better...not fatter.  Insulin ONLY makes the physique look fatter if you actually gain fat (which does not have to happen when using insulin)...or if you use excessive dosages (due to consideable water retention).  Reasonable slin use usually makes people look leaner because of the increased muscular volumization.  The muscles become fuller and press out aganst the skin harder, making the entire physique look tighter.  Most people start to notice this tightening up effect within the first few days.  

The principle is similar to what takes place with carb loading/depletion.  What happens when glycogen levels are low?  The muscles look soft and watery due to a lack of intramuscular glycogen.  When the muscles are full of glyocgen, the opposite effect takes place...the BB'r now looks harder, fuller, tighter and better overall.  This is how insulin works...it pushes nutrients in either muscle or fat cells.  As long as you don't eat more than your body can use for growth, the cals you consume won't be stored as fat.  Rather, they will be stored in muscle, making the BB'r look better in every way.  There is a misconception that insulin will make you add fat even if you are eating a maintenance amount of calories, but this is not true.  Insulin will only cause fat gain when the body cannot use the calories it has been given. In conclusion, insulin will only make you look fatter if you actually gain fat, and as said above, this does NOT have to occur when the BB'r is smart about his use and diet.here is no reason to have to be at 7% in order to use insulin.  One's BF% is a personal thing.  Insulin will work all the same, regardless of what someone's BF% is.  They are two seperate things.


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## Mike Arnold (May 1, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> its for 15iu's the extra carbs are precautionary and also this is my bulk, I am probably 8% right now and don't want to go past 10% during this bulk. Goal is to hit 230 this bulk at 10%. I would like to stay at 9% so that when i do my prep next its easier to reach 3% bf and come in shredded as fuck. I am still gathering research, which is why i am not jumping into it and picking brains.
> 
> my diet will consist of mostly carbs and protein really low fat. no fat after the slin injection.




Keep in mind that is is a false belief that eating fat when slin is active will make you fat.  It will not.  Yes, it will slow down the absoprtion of nutrients a bit (to what degree is dependent on how much fat you eat, as well as sevral other factors), so you will want to avoid it around workouts, but it does not matte with other meals, assuming you are not eating more cals than your body needs.


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## Night_Wolf (May 2, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> its for 15iu's the extra carbs are precautionary and also this is my bulk, I am probably 8% right now and don't want to go past 10% during this bulk. Goal is to hit 230 this bulk at 10%. I would like to stay at 9% so that when i do my prep next its easier to reach 3% bf and come in shredded as fuck. I am still gathering research, which is why i am not jumping into it and picking brains.
> 
> my diet will consist of mostly carbs and protein really low fat. no fat after the slin injection.



That's overkill bro. Here is what my "carb protocol" was for 15iu of Humulin R:

14.00 Chicken, 80g oats
14.45 15iu slin
15.30 Shake: bcaa, eaa, creatine, 35g waxy maize
16.00 Train, shake: bcaa, eaa, creatine
17.00 Shake: 2 scoops whey
18.00 Chicken
20.30 Cottage cheese

Again, is impossible to screw up on slin if you are not complete and utter moron.

This would be the worst case scenario: you eat a meal and later inject slin. You start feeling a little bit sweaty and light headed so you drink some carbs... That's it. Doesn't sound like a horror story to me lol
2-3 times I started to get hypo symptoms like that when I was walking to the gym or when I arrived their before a workout. I just took out a 0.5l bottle of sprite from my gym bag and drank third/half of it and sat for a few min and it went away completely.
Is not like- you inject slin and if you did not cover it with perfect amount of carbs, you fall instantly into coma and die. That's scare mongering from morons on other boards.
There are plenty of hypo symptoms that last for quite some time, so you have plenty time to react, especially with Humulin R. Worst case scenario you will feel light headed for a few min and take a sip of coca cola, not bad at all


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## Night_Wolf (May 2, 2013)

Mike Arnold said:


> Above 7%?  Very few BB'rs have a genuine BF% of 7% or lower unless they are 4-7 weeks out from a contest.  Just about all of our pros are above 7% in the off-season, while most range between 10-12%...and a decent percentange go even higher.  Many (not all) of them use slin.  The reality is that reasonable slin use makes the physique look better...not fatter.  Insulin ONLY makes the physique look fatter if you actually gain fat (which does not have to happen when using insulin)...or if you use excessive dosages (due to consideable water retention).  Reasonable slin use usually makes people look leaner because of the increased muscular volumization.  The muscles become fuller and press out aganst the skin harder, making the entire physique look tighter.  Most people start to notice this tightening up effect within the first few days.
> 
> The principle is similar to what takes place with carb loading/depletion.  What happens when glycogen levels are low?  The muscles look soft and watery due to a lack of intramuscular glycogen.  When the muscles are full of glyocgen, the opposite effect takes place...the BB'r now looks harder, fuller, tighter and better overall.  This is how insulin works...it pushes nutrients in either muscle or fat cells.  As long as you don't eat more than your body can use for growth, the cals you consume won't be stored as fat.  Rather, they will be stored in muscle, making the BB'r look better in every way.  There is a misconception that insulin will make you add fat even if you are eating a maintenance amount of calories, but this is not true.  Insulin will only cause fat gain when the body cannot use the calories it has been given. In conclusion, insulin will only make you look fatter if you actually gain fat, and as said above, this does NOT have to occur when the BB'r is smart about his use and diet.here is no reason to have to be at 7% in order to use insulin.  One's BF% is a personal thing.  Insulin will work all the same, regardless of what someone's BF% is.  They are two seperate things.



Hi Mike, glad that you replied.

What I implied was that I like to use slin when I'm super lean and dry when I'm transitioning into my "bulk", so for the first 4-6 weeks than drop it.


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## s2h (May 2, 2013)

Good call Mike...there is allot more solid slin protocols that have come about over the last few years...the use of luecine is super important..


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## Mike Arnold (May 2, 2013)

Night_Wolf said:


> Hi Mike, glad that you replied.
> 
> What I implied was that I like to use slin when I'm super lean and dry when I'm transitioning into my "bulk", so for the first 4-6 weeks than drop it.



Please don't think that I was criticizing you...because I wasn't.  Your post could've easily been interpreted by someone to mean that slin should never be used when above 7%.  I just wanted to make sure the guy asking questions did not think he had to approach contest condition in order to use insulin.  That's all.  I understand what you are saying though.  When you are very lean and use slin, it does have more of a dramatic visual effect because you can see the changes more clearly.


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## Mike Arnold (May 2, 2013)

s2h said:


> Good call Mike...there is allot more solid slin protocols that have come about over the last few years...the use of luecine is super important..




Thanks.  A lot of guys are still stuck in the dextrose way of thinking.  This is partially because the internet saves old information just the same as new information...and it will all pull up in an online search.  This makes it difficult for the average guy to be able to learn what information is relevant and what is out-dated.


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## jay_steel (May 2, 2013)

Night_Wolf said:


> That's overkill bro. Here is what my "carb protocol" was for 15iu of Humulin R:
> 
> 14.00 Chicken, 80g oats
> 14.45 15iu slin
> ...



My big concern is will humalin -r be fine running it when i train at 6pm? 

What time should i pin it if I train at that time. I am just worried about going hypo when im sleeping...


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