# Need help....Low testosterone



## themamasan (May 31, 2008)

So for the last year my muscle growth has been very minimal and not at all.  I have increased a small bit on some things, gone down on others.  I am always tired, yawn during workouts, etc.  I went to the doctor and the diagnosis was low testosterone, which explains the lack of muscle growth among other things.

What do you guys suggest?  I get plenty of sleep, my diet is good.  Without doing the illegal stuff, is there other supplements I can take?  Also, I don't do legs any more nor do I play sports these days.  Do squats and leg workouts help that much?  My testosterone score was 260.  I believe normal is 300-1000.  I'm only 31, I should still have life in me, right?


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## Built (May 31, 2008)

You need test. Get some. The doc can put you on HRT.


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## Duncans Donuts (Jun 1, 2008)

Androgel and biweekly shots can correct that.


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## JonnyStead (Jun 1, 2008)

themamasan said:


> So for the last year my muscle growth has been very minimal and not at all.  I have increased a small bit on some things, gone down on others.  I am always tired, yawn during workouts, etc.  I went to the doctor and the diagnosis was low testosterone, which explains the lack of muscle growth among other things.
> 
> What do you guys suggest?  I get plenty of sleep, my diet is good.  Without doing the illegal stuff, is there other supplements I can take?  Also, I don't do legs any more nor do I play sports these days.  Do squats and leg workouts help that much?  My testosterone score was 260.  I believe normal is 300-1000.  I'm only 31, I should still have life in me, right?



Its worth trying squats and deads too - I understand lifting heavy can trigger test. Also sex, the more you have the more test you produce (as I understand it) so tell the Mrs to step up or at least get her to say its ok to bang her sister or something like that? (that may not be helpful)


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## Duncans Donuts (Jun 1, 2008)

JonnyStead said:


> Its worth trying squats and deads too - I understand lifting heavy can trigger test. Also sex, the more you have the more test you produce (as I understand it) so tell the Mrs to step up or at least get her to say its ok to bang her sister or something like that? (that may not be helpful)



If he really has a test deficiency, he needs to see a doctor and figure out a plan of action.  If the problem is serious enough none of that will resolve it..


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## themamasan (Jun 1, 2008)

Duncans Donuts said:


> If he really has a test deficiency, he needs to see a doctor and figure out a plan of action.  If the problem is serious enough none of that will resolve it..



That's the thing, the doc acted like it is no big deal.  That was from by blood test results and she said that it is low, but taking hormones will be more detrimental because of the side effects.  Yet, I am tired everyday, have no energy for anything, especially working out, and I can't make muscle gains.  So it is a big deal for me.  But I can't afford the good stuff to correct it and I actually am worried about side effects.  The androgel sounds interesting, but on the website it says as soon as you stop taking it, your test levels can drop again.  So it sounds like I would have to be on it forever, and I don't think I could afford it.


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## Built (Jun 1, 2008)

You need to see another doctor - perhaps a man, someone who understands how to treat androgen deficiency. Either that or simply ask her point blank for it. What sides does she mean - the ones from normal replacement, like normal libido and energy, or the ones from shoving the testosterone of 20 men into your ass?


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## Rocky_B (Jun 1, 2008)

Duncans Donuts said:


> Androgel and biweekly shots can correct that.


Actually IF he's approved for medical testosterone supplementation, it would likely be a monthly shot for a period of 5-7 months to hopefully 're-kickstart' his negative feedback system.


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## Built (Jun 1, 2008)

My male friends on HRT either self-administrate twice a week, or get a doc to do it once every two weeks - and it's for life. 

<shrugs>

I guess it varies depending upon where you live.


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## Duncans Donuts (Jun 1, 2008)

Rocky_B said:


> Actually IF he's approved for medical testosterone supplementation, it would likely be a monthly shot for a period of 5-7 months to hopefully 're-kickstart' his negative feedback system.



I get weeks every two weeks, so treatments vary.  Androgel works for immediately correcting the imbalance.


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## thewicked (Jun 2, 2008)

see an endocrinologist to get squared away..if you're legitimately low they'll give you shots to start taking.


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## Will Brink (Jun 13, 2008)

themamasan said:


> That's the thing, the doc acted like it is no big deal.  That was from by blood test results and she said that it is low, but taking hormones will be more detrimental because of the side effects.  .



Then your doctor's ignorance is going to damage your health in the long run. Find another doc, or ask for a referral from the doc to an endocrinologist, hopefully one specializing in male issues. From my April News Letter, which you may want to print out and give to your doc:

______________
As the readers my articles have probably already figured out, I am a big fan of hormone testing and optimizing hormones. Iâ€™m particular fan of the hormone testosterone, which literally makes men men or a man a man orâ€¦well you get the point. No news there.

However, there are also many myths and unfounded fears some have about this hormone. Some are under the impression it might increase their chances of prostate cancer, some may have heard itâ€™s bad for their heart, and others may have read in some tabloid it will grow horns on your head and you will sprout a prehensile tailâ€¦so whatâ€™s the truth? The truth is, recent studies have found healthy testosterone levels are not only safe, it can improve a manâ€™s health, and potentially help prevent a variety of diseases.

Itâ€™s essential to remember the term â€œhealthy testosterone levels.â€ By that, we mean levels in the normal healthy range for a man, not too low (where we start to see all manner of health problems) or too high! Like most things in life, too little or too much, is where the problems arise. Believe me, low testosterone levels are terrible for a manâ€™s health. For example, according to one recent review of by a Dr. Shabsigh and colleagues:

â€œHypogonadism (low testosterone) is associated with central obesity; insulin resistance; low levels of high-density lipoprotein (HDL); high cholesterol levels; and high levels of low-density lipoprotein (LDL), triglycerides, fibrinogen, and plasminogen activator-1. Some observational studies show a correlation between low testosterone and cardiovascular disease (CVD), and others show no correlation. Interventional studies do not reveal a direct long-term relation between testosterone therapy and CVD. Short-term data suggest cardiovascular benefits of testosterone.â€â€¢

Heck, the above review also leaves out other known negative effects of low testosterone in men, such as loss of libido, depression, loss of muscle mass and decreases performance, as well as other issues best avoided.

Most studies find clear health benefits for men with low testosterone (hypogonadism) when they are brought up to those healthy normal levels mentioned above via the use of hormone replacement therapy (HRT). But what about prostate cancer or heart disease? A retrospective analysis by researchers at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center published in The New England Journal of Medicine found no causal relationship between testosterone replacement and prostate cancer or heart disease risk! Nadda, zip, nothing. According to Dr. Abraham Morgentaler:

"We reviewed decades of research and found no compelling evidence that testosterone replacement therapy increases the incidence of prostate cancer or cardiovascular disease.â€â€¢â€¢

This review of 72 studies puts to rest unfounded fears some may have that there is any risk of testosterone replacement therapy â€“ which brings men from a low testosterone state to a â€˜healthy normalâ€™ state - at least where it concerns CVD or prostate cancer. As the game show host would say, but wait, thereâ€™s more!

A recent study published online November 26, 2007 in the journal Circulation, found there was an inverse risk for men with low testosterone and all cause mortality. Translated, men with the lowest levels of testosterone had the highest mortality rates from all causes including heart disease and cancer! The authors of this study commented

â€œâ€¦these findings are consistent with existing evidence from epidemiological and clinical studies indicating that endogenous testosterone concentrations may be an indicator of good health."

As mentioned earlier, there is a normal healthy range for a manâ€™s testosterone levels as covered in this book â€“ which is a very different state of affairs seen with very high doses of anabolic steroids used by some athletes - but men given supraphysiological doses (meaning much higher than normal) of this hormone donâ€™t generally find serious side effects. For example, a study published in The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) - considered one of the most prestigious medical and scientific journals in the world â€“ found healthy men given 600mg per week (about 6 times higher than the typical replacement dose) of testosterone did not suffer any serious side effects, negative changes in lipid profiles, and did not see a rise in prostate-specific antigens, or increased aggression. â€¢â€¢â€¢

But what if the person has already had a heart attack? Interestingly, one study suggests testosterone therapy may actually help after a heart attack, but itâ€™s preliminary research done on animals. â€¢â€¢â€¢â€¢

So what about the very high doses of testosterone and other anabolic steroids used by high level bodybuilders and other athletes mentioned above? As with pretty much any hormone, below a certain levels, health issues arise and above a certain level, the same thing happens, though the health issues may or may not be the same. For example, very high levels or very low levels may present an increased risk for cardiovascular disease (CVD) but far more is known about too little vs. too much when it comes to testosterone and CVD or prostate issues, etc. At the very high doses used by some athletes it would not surprise me if there was an increased risk of CVD but data is scarce here.

Although everyone mistakenly associates testosterone with men only, but thatâ€™s not true, and I have not forgotten the ladies! Yes, testosterone does play a role in the health and well being of women too, albeit not to the extent that it does for men. For example, testosterone plays a key role in sexual function of women as well as men which has lead companies to pursue the use of testosterone for treating low libido in women, which has the medical term hypoactive sexual desire disorder or HSDD, which is estimated to affect approximately one third of American women.

Such products are currently being examined in clinical trials, and If given the green light by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, such products will probably be prescribed to women complaining of a low sex drive.

This is just a small sample of the many studies published on the risks associated with low testosterone and shows the myths and fears some may have over this hormone are clearly unfounded.

Cont:

Brinkzone Newsletter - April 2008


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## Built (Jun 13, 2008)

As a woman who is on transdermal bioidentical testosterone replacement, I could not agree more. Not only libido, but thyroid function, mood, body composition - hell even dry eye reaspond to androgen replacement. 

I ♥ my juice.


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## vader (Jun 13, 2008)

just ask for the HRT, the doc will give it to you.
I don't think he will risk losing a patient.
Thats basically how I got mine


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## Toty (Jun 13, 2008)

*You should try www.spectrumhrt.com to solve your problem*

Yea...I got the same problem, but contacting this unique site you will definetely improve your condition.  Toll free 866 3068139 ext 301
You wont regret it


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## Kingkonggyi (Jun 13, 2008)

themamasan said:


> So for the last year my muscle growth has been very minimal and not at all.  I have increased a small bit on some things, gone down on others.  I am always tired, yawn during workouts, etc.  I went to the doctor and the diagnosis was low testosterone, which explains the lack of muscle growth among other things.
> 
> What do you guys suggest?  I get plenty of sleep, my diet is good.  Without doing the illegal stuff, is there other supplements I can take?  Also, I don't do legs any more nor do I play sports these days.  Do squats and leg workouts help that much?  My testosterone score was 260.  I believe normal is 300-1000.  I'm only 31, I should still have life in me, right?




Control your cortisol and insulin.

Exercises that train several muscle groups together has been proven to increase test to a good degree.

Low reps, heavy weights, HIGH ENOUGH VOLUME has been proven to increase test level higher than high reps, medium weights, about the same volume.

avoid doing endurance enercises for now. high volume endurance exercises can lower test level.

I recommended T bomb II. 


Compare to other natural test boosting sups, it is kinda pricey. but as long as it works, price should not matter. 

But if you are on a tight budget, look at some other good test boosting sup...

Make sure that they use potent ingredients. For example, tribulus, I know there has been no studies showing it increase test, but certain part of the plant harvested at the right time does work. Most tribulus sups like the ones from Ultimate nutrition, Optimal nutrition sucks,,, though they increase libido.

Since you say you eat right, i would not say anything about diet.

but the following food could help you to some extent;

garlic

broccoli

cabbage

good fats

whole eggs ( colesterol in egg yolk is a good colesterol and help you remove LDL which is a bad colesterol )

Remember that eating too much of good fats has adverse effects on your test level.

Overeating, under eating, overtraining... all these things lower test level.

hope this help a bit


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## Built (Jun 14, 2008)

Consuming a higher-fat diet - particularly saturated fats - has been demonstrated to increase testosterone in males.

Dorgan J, et al. Effects of dietary fat and fiber on plasma and urine androgens and estrogens in men: a controlled feeding study. Am J Clin Nutr 64(6): 850-855. 1996. <<full article>>

A good starting point for fat consumption is 0.5g/lb lean mass. 

Interview with Lyle McDonald and Jamie Hale Part #1 <link>

Aim for about a third from each of polys, monos, and saturates. Favour monos for heart health and saturates for sex hormone production. If you go higher in the fats, my feeling is to overshoot on the side of monos.


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## BruiseKnee (Jun 15, 2008)

try taking tribulus...available at any supplement stores. i will put $ on it that will help at least a bit


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## Built (Jun 15, 2008)

Although it may have a positive effect on libido - at least in older males - Tribulus has never been demonstrated to increase testosterone levels in humans.


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## Swede (Jun 16, 2008)

Prior to my colon surgery I used androgel for 2 months - it kicked ass!! I loved it for several reasons - significant increase in muscle mass and strength and fat loss, and not to mention increased libido.  It is a cream that you apply to your shoulders and / or stomach daily - it provides a constant application of testosterone and is very fast acting.  

I was also on a cycle of using NO Explode and Cell Mass and very clean high protein diet.  I am sure all these worked together, but I was very impressed with the Androgel contribution.

I have just now resumed using Androgel and am starting to hit the weigths again carefully and will start another cycle of the NO Explode and Cell Mass this week.  I expect to very quickly get back to where I was prior to surgery and blow past it.

Talk to your doctor about Androgel, you wont regret it.


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## Built (Jun 16, 2008)

Why would you cycle NO and Cell mass?


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## Swede (Jun 16, 2008)

What I meant is that I use them together - NO Explode before workout and Cell Mass after workout in a 3 month cycle, then off for a few months then cycle again.....


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## Built (Jun 16, 2008)

I understand what a cycle is, hon. I'm just curious why you'd go off them, then back on.


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## Swede (Jun 16, 2008)

Ok, now I get your question - sorry.  The reason I cycle them include, they cost a lot of money, I have read that ones body adapts and they lose their efficy, and I guess, lastly, I am also experimenting to see what works for me.

But, we are getting off track here - my fault,  This post is asking about low testosterone and from my own personal experience, I really like what the androgel cream does for me and I plan to continue to use it under doctor supervision.


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## Mudge (Jun 16, 2008)

I have come across people barely 20 in the 200s for natural test. My father is right around where you are at, in his 50s, and a little extra (he is on the gel) helped his mood quite a bit.


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## Merkaba (Jun 17, 2008)

How many nuts are you busting a week?  seriously?


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## Budz08 (Jun 21, 2008)

could prohormone use lower natural testosterone levels in the long run?


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## Built (Jun 21, 2008)

Yes, at least for a while once you go off. It shouldn't lower your test permanently, at least not that I'm aware of. 

Now the same cannot be said for women who go on oral contraceptives. While on, our levels of SHBG go up fourfold, all but obliterating our bioavailable testosterone. Once we go off, our SHBG drops off, but remains elevated relative to what it was before, and this change appears to be permanent - meaning our endogenous bioavailable testosterone remains suppressed, possibly forever. Mine was below the lower limit for POST-menopausal and I had been off OC for almost ten years by the time I started androgen replacement HRT.


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## themamasan (Jul 6, 2008)

Swede said:


> Prior to my colon surgery I used androgel for 2 months - it kicked ass!! I loved it for several reasons - significant increase in muscle mass and strength and fat loss, and not to mention increased libido.  It is a cream that you apply to your shoulders and / or stomach daily - it provides a constant application of testosterone and is very fast acting.
> 
> I was also on a cycle of using NO Explode and Cell Mass and very clean high protein diet.  I am sure all these worked together, but I was very impressed with the Androgel contribution.
> 
> ...



How much does that Androgel stuff cost?  Actually to anyone who is on HRT or has been on HRT, what is the medical expense for that type of therapy.  I have good health insurance, but don't know if it is covered or not.  I still haven't decided on what to do.  My workouts are really the least of my concern.  I am much more concerned with my energy levels, which are just way to low for me to enjoy life.  There are so many things I don't do just because I feel too tired.  Plus everytime I work out hard for 3 or 4 days in a row, I get sick (like a cold or flu like symptoms.)  It is like my body doesn't want to repair itself, and I can't fight off whatever ails me.

Thanks to everyone for the input so far!!


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## themamasan (Jul 6, 2008)

Merkaba said:


> How many nuts are you busting a week?  seriously?



5 on average, always at night, for it helps me to sleep.  I have always read that it will help keep natural testosterone levels at normal, but now I am suspicious of that.  Or something else is making my test levels low.


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## Swede (Jul 7, 2008)

My insurance co-pay is $30 / month for androgel - 1% 5 gm dosage.  This is considered an average dosage.  I just had my blood chemistry checked after 4 months of usage.  My testosterone level jumped from just below the minimum of the range to just above average for my age - I am 52.  My refill for androgel is for 12 months.


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## themamasan (Jul 7, 2008)

Swede said:


> My insurance co-pay is $30 / month for androgel - 1% 5 gm dosage.  This is considered an average dosage.  I just had my blood chemistry checked after 4 months of usage.  My testosterone level jumped from just below the minimum of the range to just above average for my age - I am 52.  My refill for androgel is for 12 months.



OK. thanks for the info.  That is do-able for me IF my insurance will cover it.  I am going to get tested in a couple of months again and see what the results are.  I am trying to change up my diet with foods that are linked to good testosterone levels, taking ZMA supplement, and doing more high impact/compound exercises involving legs.  I just don't think it will get me where I need to be.


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## Markjoe77 (Feb 16, 2010)

Hey guys im 21 and i made some dumb dumb decisions to take ph's and steriods from 17-19...i had to go cold turkey off of tren about a year ago...ever since then my sex drive has been terrible(its there just terrible) im depressed, moody, and have no motivation...all points to supressed t leves however i still put on some sort of muscle and grow facial hair...im confused help would be appricated


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## Perdido (Feb 16, 2010)

Markjoe77 said:


> Hey guys im 21 and i made some dumb dumb decisions to take ph's and steriods from 17-19...i had to go cold turkey off of tren about a year ago...ever since then my sex drive has been terrible(its there just terrible) im depressed, moody, and have no motivation...all points to supressed t leves however i still put on some sort of muscle and grow facial hair...im confused help would be appricated



Have your Dr. order a blood test to find out what your T levels are.


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## Markjoe77 (Feb 16, 2010)

yes thats what i am doing got my apt march 15....it jus baffles me because i am making gains but i am eating well and taking kre-aklyn but i have pretty much no sex drive which is scary


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## Built (Feb 16, 2010)

Get your prolactin levels tested, and thyroid. Hypothyroid and elevated prolactin go hand in hand, and can be a real bitch on libido.


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## Markjoe77 (Feb 17, 2010)

Thanks yah i always hear about that and that was my one freinds prob after he used tren though i dont know how they fix it.


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## Markjoe77 (Feb 24, 2010)

Hey i got my bloodwork done...im 21 years old my test was 270 and my prolactin was 18.2 is this normal?


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## nova1970sb (Feb 24, 2010)

Merkaba said:


> How many nuts are you busting a week?  seriously?




im not sure, is that a real question. can it really effect your test levels? in which way?


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## Markjoe77 (Feb 24, 2010)

i jus feel like 270 is very low for my age and i notice it i have absualutly no sex drive


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## Built (Feb 24, 2010)

270 nm/Dl is certainly at the low end of normal. Prolactin should be under 20 and yours is - just. 

Had your thyroid checked?


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## Markjoe77 (Feb 25, 2010)

yeah 270 for a 21 year old kid is rediculously low apparenty.....i should be like 500-800....im jus worried they will say im fine when i clearly know i am not


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## ajajz71 (Feb 27, 2010)

Hi my name is Aj I had been using prohormones since 2006 and stupid me thought I was too good for PCT. Well now I am suffering the side effects of not doing PCT. I went to my doc last Monday to get a full blood work lab done on me. Everything came back normal except my Testostrone level which was at 189. This is extremely low considering my age being 29. I am scared... Scared they won't return to normal. I bought iforce reversitol and hoping it's not too late to regulate my hormones.... Will this help?? Or am I wasting my time? Any info would help! Markjoe77 I know how you feel bro!


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