# Avant Testers: Looking for Volunteers



## Twin Peak (Apr 15, 2003)

Over the course of the next few months, Avant Labs is going to be coming out with some very new and exciting products.

Some are similar to what you see on the market now, only will be far superior.

Some are remakes of current Avant products, only will be much much better.

And most will be completely innovative.

At this point it is difficult to know what will come out when, but it looks like Leptigen II will be the next product to the market.

For those of you unfamiliar with Leptigen (the original), you can read about it here:

http://www.1fast400.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=17&products_id=54

The second version will be far superior, and is designed to make dieting easy (on many levels), and eliminate the need (emotional and physiological) for carb ups, or refeeds, thereby making dieting easy, more effective, and quicker.

I am looking for one or two volunteers, who would be interested in testing this product, either before, or concurrent with its release to the market.

If you are interested, please post so, and tell me why you'd be a good candidate.  There are several factors I have in mind for such, but will not list them now, except to say that a detailed journal will be mandatory.

Assuming Prince doesn't mind this, I'll be offering this on other products as well, in the future.


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## Arnold (Apr 15, 2003)

No, I do not mind, but asking first is always nice.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 15, 2003)

Sorry.


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## Robboe (Apr 15, 2003)

Don't all jump at once, kids.


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## Arnold (Apr 15, 2003)

Is there going to be any beta testing for new PH's?


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## Twin Peak (Apr 15, 2003)

There is an oral in the works.  When ready, it will be better than even the transdermals.

Avant usually "beta tests" eveything, in the sense of having a few people try the product (free).  Products are also sold in the beta form (e.g. FL7 which Mike is carrying).

I have just brought beta testing to IM....too bad no one seems interested.


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## DaMayor (Apr 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Over the course of the next few months, Avant Labs is going to be coming out with some very new and exciting products....
> ...There are several factors I have in mind for such, but will not list them now, except to say that a detailed journal will be mandatory.



And these factors are?


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## Robboe (Apr 15, 2003)

Well, they need wo be careful with the whole PH/PS business right now, but there's some in the works - orals.


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## Robboe (Apr 15, 2003)

arse my slow computer.


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## Arnold (Apr 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I have just brought beta testing to IM....too bad no one seems interested.



you may want to be more patient, you just posted this one and a half hours ago.


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## Robboe (Apr 15, 2003)

*Re: Re: Avant Testers: Looking for Volunteers*



> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> And these factors are?




Tell him why you're a good candidate and you'll find out


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## Twin Peak (Apr 15, 2003)

*Re: Re: Avant Testers: Looking for Volunteers*



> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> And these factors are?



Point being, I don't want to list them, and have them thrown back at me in an effort to get some free stuff.

Obvioulsy, I want people seriously interesting in testing a new product.  Other factors are fairly common sensical.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> you may want to be more patient, you just posted this one and a half hours ago.



Oh I know.  I was kidding.  Its not going to happen for a few weeks.  There should have been a smilie there, but you know my general policy on smilies.


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## DaMayor (Apr 15, 2003)

My question was directed more toward the demographic you're looking for....considering that there is such a substantial variation in age, experience, etc. here @ IM. ....Do you want stats, such as age,wieght,goals, etc. or "why I wans-ta-be an Advant guinea pig fo free" in 100 words or less?


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## Twin Peak (Apr 15, 2003)

Ah, gotcha.  I don't really care much about physical stats.  Goals are important, as, obvioulsy, you'll need to be cutting.  History is also important, so tell me that as well.  (i.e. previous dieting, years lifting, success dieting, predisposition, etc.).

If not interested in this product but in others, feel free to tell me that as well.

BTW, there is no "d" in Avant.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 15, 2003)

Difficulty dieting is important too.  Basically, if you were reading someone's test journal about this product, what would you want to know about them to determine whether you believed it was efficacious.


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## DaMayor (Apr 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Ah, gotcha.  I don't really care much about physical stats.  Goals are important, as, obvioulsy, you'll need to be cutting.  History is also important, so tell me that as well.  (i.e. previous dieting, years lifting, success dieting, predisposition, etc.).
> 
> If not interested in this product but in others, feel free to tell me that as well.
> ...



[SIZE=.5]Thank you, Dr.Peaks. [/SIZE]


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## Twin Peak (Apr 15, 2003)

Yeah that's a good start.

Reasons why you might be a good candidate for a test subject, in general, and for this product specifically, would be helpful, as well (I'm poor as dirt but would really like to try it, is not that helpful).

Definitely not a doctor, BTW.


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## I Are Baboon (Apr 15, 2003)

Can't they just test on animals like most decent companies would do?


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## Twin Peak (Apr 15, 2003)

We test on Baboons. 

Except they have a tough time telling us whether it is making the diet easier.


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## DaMayor (Apr 15, 2003)

NEXT!


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## Yanick (Apr 15, 2003)

Are they/will they be doing this on Avant also TP?

I'll post my qualifications in a little bit, for now i'm gonna go and get my brothers fat ass into the gym


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## ZECH (Apr 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> If not interested in this product but in others, feel free to tell me that as well.


Not interested in cutting...................don't want to loose my size yet. Hey I'm up to 195. I'll definately be interested in the orals even if I have to pay for them. Let me know ahead of time so I can be sure to be off cycle long enough to get fair results.


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## kuso (Apr 15, 2003)

I`m fucking shocked at the lack of responses here


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## Jemal (Apr 15, 2003)

are u going to be testing any products for ppl who don't want to cut? i'd be interested then, but i only weight 125 lbs and want to keep all i got


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## Arnold (Apr 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> I`m fucking shocked at the lack of responses here



hmmm....I did not see a response of interest from you.


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## kuso (Apr 15, 2003)

It was responded to on Saturday privately


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## Arnold (Apr 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> It was responded to on Saturday privately



so, maybe others here have chosen to respond privately as well.


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## kuso (Apr 16, 2003)

Could be...... 

I`m still surprised though. A thread like this elsewhere would have many falling over themselves to test imo.


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## Robboe (Apr 16, 2003)

I was expecting this to be three pages long now.


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## Jodi (Apr 16, 2003)

I'd do it but I like my carb ups


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## Fit Freak (Apr 16, 2003)

TP...when are you looking to conduct this experiment?  I think I'd be a geat candidate BUT it will depend on the timing as to when you'll be wanting me to cut.


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## Robboe (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> I'd do it but I like my carb ups




Providing you're dieting, that shouldn't be a problem, Jodi.


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## Robboe (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Fit Freak *_
> TP...when are you looking to conduct this experiment?  I think I'd be a geat candidate BUT it will depend on the timing as to when you'll be wanting me to cut.




Anything from 2-4 weeks depending on ingredient sourcing from what i can gather.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Anything from 2-4 weeks depending on ingredient sourcing from what i can gather.



Basically, yes.  Could always be put off longer if there are problems.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> I'd do it but I like my carb ups



I know.  Helps you get through the diet right?  That's the point, you won't feel you need them.

Also, properly using refeeds would not hurt the use of the product.  Even with refeeds, diets suck, don't they?  Leptin still goes down, doesn't it?


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## Robboe (Apr 16, 2003)

Also, although i've stated otherwise in the past, i don't think a 100-200g carb-up before bed really has _that_ much of an impact on leptin itself. Just thyroid functioning and glycogen replenishment if anything.

Regardless, your bodyfat levels will be reducing so your leptin levels will be going down with them. Something like this _theoretically_ will "trick" the body into thinking the fat stores are still there.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 16, 2003)

I think I have seen Lyle state that a refeed will not effect Leptin unless it is at least 24 hours in duration.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> Could be......
> 
> I`m still surprised though. A thread like this elsewhere would have many falling over themselves to test imo.



I have to say, after 24 hours I expected more as well.  So far I have one volunteer.  Surprising.

Jamal, yes, Avant will be coming out with many products, and, to the extent there is interest, I will offer free testing on most of them.


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## Robboe (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I think I have seen Lyle state that a refeed will not effect Leptin unless it is at least 24 hours in duration.



Yeah. The amount of carbs consumed plays a role also. A "carb-up" generally defines consuming 100-200g in the last or last two meals before bed (at least how i define it anyhoo), and that is neither an amount large enough or a long enough duration to really effect leptin at all. A "refeed" is, as i personally define it, going out of your way to consume enough carbs to make an effect on leptin levels via the hexosamine biosynthetic pathway in fat cells - i.e "spilling over". "Carb-ups" are generally not large enough to do this. Especially if you've been low carbing between carb-ups, as most will go to muscular glycogen replenishment, hepatic glycogen replenishment, and T4 to T3 conversion in the liver.

Other than that, they may have small effects of leptin production in the muscle or brain (which are small secretions compared to fat cell secretion of leptin), but i can't say that sure.


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## Triple Threat (Apr 16, 2003)

Hey, you only live once, right?
I've thought it over and I'm willing to give it a try.

Although I am usually careful about what I eat,
I've never really done any kind of a serious planned cut.
It would be interesting to see if I actually do have abs.

I lift and exercise to stay in shape for other sports such as
basketball and softball, plus I want to be able to run around with
my kids as they get older. I haven't been in any kind of bodybuilding competitions.

According to online calculators using weight and waist measurements, I'm currently at 16-18% BF.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by CaptainDeadlift *_
> Hey, you only live once, right?
> I've thought it over and I'm willing to give it a try.
> 
> ...



Thanks.

Hmmm.  Perhaps people are misunderstanding this.  This is not a guniea pig situation.  We aren't given you cynide to see what will happen (I'll bet you'll lose a lot of weight though!)

This is a previous product, which showed good results, completely remodeled, with several new ingredients at specific doses, that will not only trick your body into thinking it is "fed" and keep leptin up (and prevent metobolic crash, etc.) will provide a significant partitioning effect, helping one to lose fat and maintain and even gain muscle, while "dieting."


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## Twin Peak (Apr 16, 2003)

BTW Prince, thanks for making this a sticky.


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## Triple Threat (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> We aren't given you cynide to see what will happen (I'll bet you'll lose a lot of weight though!)



I'll be that cyanide stuff has some nasty side effects.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 16, 2003)

I think death, but that's about it.


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## Fit Freak (Apr 16, 2003)

I'd be interested but only at the end of my lean bulk now...which should be hitting a hault in about 4-6 weeks.....would 6 weeks be too long from now?


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## Twin Peak (Apr 16, 2003)

Too early to tell.  Stay tuned.  I'll need info though, on why you'd be a good tester.


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## DaMayor (Apr 16, 2003)

I realize you're attempting to dissaude free-loaders, but what's with the evasive maneuvering re: subject qualifications?


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## Twin Peak (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> I realize you're attempting to dissaude free-loaders, but what's with the evasive maneuvering re: subject qualifications?



I am not sure I understand the question or what you mean by "subject qualifications".

My point on was that which you said, certain things are obvious, others are not.  I don't want to say, blue eyed people will have priority, and then everyone to tell me they have blue eyes, simply to get selected.

I will choose someone who I believe will be a good candidate for this product.

In other words, if you are already at 5% BF, for example, the product may help you maintain that weight and increase kcals, but you would not be a good TEST candidate.  That is all.  Nothing more to it.

If there is something specific you want to know, please ask.


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## ZECH (Apr 16, 2003)

Just my .02...........People with moderate BF% will make good candidates. You must have the will and be dedicated to this and put in 110% toward loosing fat. You must be willing to watch your diet and keep meticulous notes for research purposes. If your lazy, I would not bother. Nothing is magic.


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## mjsturg1 (Apr 16, 2003)

I sent a pm !!


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## DaMayor (Apr 16, 2003)

Good job mjsturg1. 

No, TP, my comment wasn't meant to sound derrogatory, I'm just saying that it might be easier to cull through the crowd if you provided some very general, if not downright vague, guidlines for candidates to follow. e.g., (hypothetically) 'I need individuals between ages X and Y. with BF between A and B.....dietary status, goals, etc..... 
I'm not trying to knock the program. Secondly, the majority of those who reply here will most probably be sincere, and I don't think anyone would feel slighted if they were turned down....as it is obvious that this is a study requiring a specific segment of the IM population.


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## Jodi (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I know.  Helps you get through the diet right?  That's the point, you won't feel you need them.
> 
> Also, properly using refeeds would not hurt the use of the product.  Even with refeeds, diets suck, don't they?  Leptin still goes down, doesn't it?



Alright TP - I want in 

Here's my thoughts, I've been trying to cut for quite a few weeks now.  My body has become very stubborn and does not like to let go of the fat.  I'm am very dedicated to my eating plan and my w/o's and yet the fat still stays.  My body tends to respond better to low carb plans but then because of lifting like I do I need to refeed or carb up.  I think I would have good success if I didn't have to carb up as much as I do.  I do so well in 2-3 days of low carb and I see a major change and then its time for carbs again.  It would be great to try a product that could keep me from having to carb up as often as I do.  Don't get me wrong, I love oatmeal and really enjoy my carbs.

By using Leptigen, from what I've read, I could go 10+ days on a low carb/mod fat/high protein diet without having to introduce carbs into my diet and still retain enough energy for my workouts.  This sounds ideal right now with summer creeping up and I would like to see if this product would work for me. 

Jodi


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## Twin Peak (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Alright TP - I want in
> 
> Here's my thoughts, I've been trying to cut for quite a few weeks now.  My body has become very stubborn and does not like to let go of the fat.  I'm am very dedicated to my eating plan and my w/o's and yet the fat still stays.  My body tends to respond better to low carb plans but then because of lifting like I do I need to refeed or carb up.  I think I would have good success if I didn't have to carb up as much as I do.  I do so well in 2-3 days of low carb and I see a major change and then its time for carbs again.  It would be great to try a product that could keep me from having to carb up as often as I do.  Don't get me wrong, I love oatmeal and really enjoy my carbs.
> ...



DeMayor, this is a good start.  I'd like to see the following:

- relative amount of BF
- amount desired to lose
- past dieting history, experience, success, failure
- current plans
- ability to commit
- ability to stick to a plan
- desire and ability to be meticulous in journaling

Anything else, I'll add in.


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## Jodi (Apr 16, 2003)

TP - I posted that 

You want me list all that stuff too?


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## Twin Peak (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> TP - I posted that
> 
> You want me list all that stuff too?



Just being clear....though you didn't say your BF% or how much you wanted to lose.

It was the best example though, of the info I need.


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## Jodi (Apr 16, 2003)

- relative amount of BF 
*18-19%*

- amount desired to lose
*6%*

- past dieting history, experience, success, failure
*I have tried several diets in the past, everything from low-fat, mod carb diets, to CKD to TKD and in the past year working with DP and w8.  I have seen my best results working with DP and w8 using Low Carb, Mod Fat, Mod-high Protein diets.  SOmetimes we'd switch it up to just enough carbs so that I don't need any refeed/carb up's  - but on this particular plan keeping the carbs up a little I seem to have slow results*

- current plans
*Low Carb - Under 30G day, 180G P per day and 72G Fat per day with a bi-weekly carb up consisting of oat, sweet potato, banana, natty pb and veggies as the last meal of the day*

- ability to commit
*I think you know that I am very dedicated to my plans.  I can commit to anything when I am determined to do so*

- ability to stick to a plan
*Again, when I have a plan, I stick to and I do whatever it takes to stay on track - that includes packing my own meals for family gatherings and holidays  *

- desire and ability to be meticulous in journaling
*Since the day I first joined here I have always had a journal and every single day - even on vacations sometimes, I make sure that I keep my journal up to date with exactly what I ate, drank and what my w/o were and how heavy, need I say more  *


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## lina (Apr 16, 2003)

Sounds interesting...


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## Robboe (Apr 16, 2003)

How many testers you after, Peaksy?


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## lina (Apr 16, 2003)

He said 'two' in his first post, Robsy


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## ZECH (Apr 16, 2003)

Well said Jodi!! Even though you say you have fat, from what I see you don't have much. And the heavy lifting you are doing needs more than 30c a day in IMO. It's hard to build muscle without it, but you are doing great! I think Jodi would be a great test person!!!!!!!!  
Maybe you could also pick one male subject.


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## Yanick (Apr 16, 2003)

mmmmmmkay guys.  Lemme get a stab at this.

BF=12-13% and dropping everyday except wednesdays and saturday's, lol.
I want to get down to single digits, with no specific number involved as i don't know how i will look at what bf.  I'm just pretty much winging it and going by the mirror.
I have calipers, but i'm fuckin lazy as hell to use them.  I'd be willing to start them up and some detailed journaling if someone is giving me free shit.

thats about it, i don't know what to add, except maybe that i'm a nice guy


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## Robboe (Apr 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by lina *_
> He said 'two' in his first post, Robsy




Well schpotted, Mish Moneypenny...


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## mjsturg1 (Apr 17, 2003)

quote:

mjsturg1 wrote on 04-16-2003 04:19 PM:
I would like to help test some new products !! I am a 30 yr old female in good health and have been lifting for about 7 weeks now and I definitely am needing to cut some off this fat off,like about 15 lbs or so ! 
I have done other product evaluations (not meds) for several different online surveying companies,so I completely understand the need for accurate documentation and complete attention to details !!

If you would like more info just ask !!

Thanks,
Jen

Also, 
I am currently doing a low carb (30-60g) diet w/ "carb-ups" over the weekends.  Oh and my BF right now is about 29%----YIKES !!!

****Added to forum per request******


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## Twin Peak (Apr 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I am looking for one or two volunteers, who would be interested in testing this product, either before, or concurrent with its release to the market.



Actually, I said one OR two.


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## Twin Peak (Apr 17, 2003)

Thanks for all the volunteers people....keep em coming.  Also, for those who vcolunteered, keep me posted of any significant changes.


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## lina (Apr 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Thanks for all the volunteers people....keep em coming.



Keep em cumming? 

Are you looking for volunteers still?


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## lina (Apr 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Well schpotted, Mish Moneypenny...



Explain....Moneypenny ...?


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## Twin Peak (Apr 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by lina *_
> Explain....Moneypenny ...?



James Bond.  Ever hear of him?  Shhessh.

Yes, I am looking for volunteers.  I said, I will leave this open for at least two weeks, then pick the best one or two.

Pay attention!


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## Robboe (Apr 17, 2003)

I typed "schpotted" inshtead of "spotted", sho cleverly covered my tracksh by the Shean Connery referencesh.


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## Robboe (Apr 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by lina *_
> Keep em cumming?



And don't be vulgar. It suits you not.


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## lina (Apr 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> James Bond.  Ever hear of him?  Shhessh.
> 
> Yes, I am looking for volunteers.  I said, I will leave this open for at least two weeks, then pick the best one or two.
> ...



Oh I see..

I'm interested but I don't think I'll make a good candidate...

I will read up on this thread later on and read more specifics about stats you are looking for.  What about people that are on thyroid meds?

and about the James Bond movies.... I need to watch them again I guess, it's been awhile


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## lina (Apr 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> I typed "schpotted" inshtead of "spotted", sho cleverly covered my tracksh by the Shean Connery referencesh.



What's up with all these spelling mistakes...?

You must have kuso's disease of ...One-handed typing  

Vulgar? ....you don't know me!


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## DaMayor (Apr 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by lina *_
> What's up with all these spelling mistakes...?
> You must have kuso's disease of ...One-handed typing




Oh dear!.....Me thinks you've been slammed ol' chicky 
*high five to Ms. Lina*


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## Tkarrde (Apr 17, 2003)

Glad to see there is interest


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## ZECH (Apr 21, 2003)

Welcome to IM Tkarrde! Hope you can spend more time here. I know you have a ton of info you can share here!!


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## kuso (Apr 21, 2003)

yes Tkarrde, welcome aboard  I hope you hang around now I can no longer access Avants forum


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## dvlmn666 (Apr 21, 2003)

I started the carb cycling last tuesday. But will volunteer to ad this to everything as well. As well as I started HST today.

I'm in if I qualify. 

And yes my main computer is back running so the journal will be updated consistently from now on.


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## Arnold (Apr 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> I hope you hang around now I can no longer access Avants forum



ahhh, they got smart and banned you, huh?


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## ZECH (Apr 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> ahhh, they got smart and banned you, huh?


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## Tkarrde (Apr 21, 2003)

Thanks guys 

I look forward to spending time here as well; Twinpeak speaks highly of you guys.


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## Jodi (Apr 21, 2003)

TP - When are you deciding on who you want to test Leptigen II?  Just curious!


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## Tkarrde (Apr 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> TP - When are you deciding on who you want to test Leptigen II?  Just curious!



Once we actually have Leptigen II ready for Beta stage, we will review the applicants and make our decision. The time-frame is a bit fluid at the moment, though we'll hopefully have things ready for our testers within the next couple of weeks


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## kuso (Apr 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> ahhh, they got smart and banned you, huh?



Not just me, they seem to have cut of my section of the world


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## Twin Peak (Apr 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> Not just me, they seem to have cut of my section of the world



because of you.

****

Just to update as TK said, we'll select one or two when the product is ready to go.  Sourcing ingredients is always a bitch, so please be patient.  The wait will be worthwhile.

Also, I should mention, that one should be able to eat maintainence level kcals, and still lose, as LG II should be a potent repartitioner. 

So, if that concept tickles your fancy, and you know well your gain/maint/loss kcal levels, please let us know.


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## Robboe (Apr 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Also, I should mention, that one should be able to eat maintainence level kcals, and still lose, as LG II should be a potent repartitioner.
> 
> So, if that concept tickles your fancy, and you know well your gain/maint/loss kcal levels, please let us know.



Crikey.

You're hyping this product up more than Par Deus ever could!


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## kuso (Apr 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> because of you.



You mean my big 20 posts over about a year was just too much for them to take?


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## DaMayor (Apr 22, 2003)

Well, based on your recent (2000+ words per entry) sparring matches with a certain individual, who shall remain nameless, this is a possibility.


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## kuso (Apr 22, 2003)

LOL....yeah, but at avant I`ve been luckily to string 10 words together coherently


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## DaMayor (Apr 22, 2003)

Wouldn't be a problem if you'd quit using soy.

Sorry for the tangent, there, TP.


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## kuso (Apr 22, 2003)

bastard


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## DaMayor (Apr 22, 2003)

*In best Elvis voice*Thank you, thank you very much.... Please pass the soy beans and sausages.


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## DaMayor (Apr 24, 2003)

tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock..........


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## Twin Peak (Apr 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock..........



I'm sorry am I keeping you awake?

Hey, when I started this, I said it would be a few weeks.  And just today Avant released several new products (which likely won't be tested) including an inra-oral instant (you take when hunger hits) appetite supressant, I believe the very first of its kind, and a local fat mobilizer that works on different pathways than Lipoderm-Y, and other such products.


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## DaMayor (Apr 25, 2003)

I really meant.... 
Not knocking the program, Boss. Kuso's just a bad influence.
Proceed.  

Hey TP, you really ought to try these smilie thingies, man..


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## Twin Peak (Apr 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> Hey TP, you really ought to try these smilie thingies, man..



See my sig.

If you knew me well enough, you'd know I'm just fucking with you.  

Its part of my charm.


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## DaMayor (Apr 25, 2003)

If you knew _me_ well enough, you would've realized that I had beat you to the punch. 
(I remember what inspired the smilie issue)


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## nikegurl (May 1, 2003)

I may be too late - but I'd like to try this one.

I've dieted before with success.  Went from 20% bodyfat down to 12% for the one contest I did back when I was in college.  Last year I got down to about 16%.  Now I'm hovering around 19% again and not happy 'bout it.

I know how to do it.  I train really hard in the gym.  The dieting messes me up every time.  I really think if I could consistently stick to the eating I'd make huge improvement.  If this could help - I'd LOVE to try!

I'm also bad about once I slip up - I tend to keep slipping for a day or two.  These aren't big huge binges or anything crazy.  Just cumulative slips that do harm and stop my progress.


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## Twin Peak (May 1, 2003)

Not to late yet, still accepting applications.


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## lina (May 1, 2003)

Hey TP, are you really a supplement lawyer?

Expains the countless hours you spend online


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## mjsturg1 (May 12, 2003)

When do you think you will decide?


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## Twin Peak (May 12, 2003)

Good question.  When Mind and Muscle Mag #12 is released (likely today or tomorrow), there will be an announcement on product release date.  Once that is determined we will be selecting the most appropriate one or two testers.

Stay tuned, and thanks for being patient.


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## Twin Peak (May 22, 2003)

Okay, everyone.  I am hopeful that we will get this roling in about two weeks.

Since its been a long delay, and some of you may have finished or be near finished with your cutting, everyone who is still interested please speak up.  If you didn't previously respond, now is the last time to di so.

Tkarrde and I will be deciding who the tester(s) will be early next week.

Thanks for the continued interest.


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## DaMayor (May 22, 2003)

I think everybody bailed. And this product was...? <<<<Smilie. Indicative of humor, or intended humor.


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## dvlmn666 (May 22, 2003)

I'm still in if possible.


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## Twin Peak (May 22, 2003)

That's one.  Shaddup, DM.


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## DaMayor (May 22, 2003)

Well, I _would_ volunteer, but I'm just not good enough.....*snivel snivel* Oh, No no...that's okay, I'm used to it.......Yeah, I know, if I were only a bit younger.......and reeeeal smart like you and 'Daddy's a Chicken'...er, I mean, 'The Chicken Daddy'.  Maybe one day I'll reach your level of greatness.


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## Triple Threat (May 22, 2003)

Looking for someone to wanting to cut? I'm still a possibility.


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## Jodi (May 23, 2003)

I'm still interested and I'm just starting a new l/c plan too


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## Robboe (May 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> Maybe one day I'll reach your level of greatness.



I sincerely doubt it.


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## DaMayor (May 23, 2003)

Well, You're entitled to your delusions.


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## Twin Peak (May 23, 2003)

Alright ladies, lets not clutter up this thread with nonsense.  Please start another thread and insult me, and each other there.

Thanks much.


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## DaMayor (May 23, 2003)

My apologies.....it will _never_ happen again.


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## Twin Peak (May 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> My apologies.....it will _never_ happen again.



If it does, we will hunt you down.....


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## Twin Peak (May 27, 2003)

Last call (seriously).  In case anyone needs a reason to buy this product, let alone test it, here are about 100 reasons.  Maybe more.

http://www.avantlabs.com/product.php?productID=5


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## Pepper (May 27, 2003)

Ok, I forgot to do this...I PM'd you and you said to post here.

I am 36 years old. I weigh 307 lbs down from over 330lbs in February. I am on what you guys would call a "cut." I eat about 2400 cals a day w/300 grams of Protein. Keep a close eye on fat.

I train 4 times a week, mostly lifting. I am trying to run more to burn more calories. This is getting easier but is still tough for me.

My photo is in the member pic section.

Not sure what other info you need.


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## dvlmn666 (May 27, 2003)

I'm in.  lookin forward to trying this out.


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## Pepper (May 27, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pepper *_
> Ok, I forgot to do this...I PM'd you and you said to post here.
> 
> I am 36 years old. I weigh 307 lbs down from over 330lbs in February. I am on what you guys would call a "cut." I eat about 2400 cals a day w/300 grams of Protein. Keep a close eye on fat.
> ...



A little more...like i said, have been dieting since February. I have not had much trouble sticking to it. While i have lost a good bit of weight, about a pound a week, I had thought that at 2400 cals I would have lost more. I am wondering if 1) my metabolism is just crappy or 2) if I have gone too low, too fast and screwed my metabolism. I tend to think the former is the case. I am upping my cardio to try to jolt out of it.

I am extremely dedicated to the diet, I refeed b/c I have to and always feel like I have failed afterwards. Given my metabolism concerns, I force myself to do it every 10 days or so.

I have been lifting heavy through the diet and am getting my strength back to pre-diet levels, but have found I need my SC oats in the pre-workout breakfast to do it.

That is probably more than you need in some areas and less in others, but PM if you need more.


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## Jodi (May 27, 2003)

I think I already told you that yes, I'm still up for it!


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## nikegurl (May 27, 2003)

me too!


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## Triple Threat (May 28, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> In case anyone needs a reason to buy this product, let alone test it, here are about 100 reasons.  Maybe more.
> 
> http://www.avantlabs.com/product.php?productID=5



TP, I checked the info at this link.  I noticed the pricing for this product said 84 servings for $49.99 and 3 bottles (84) for $119.99. What does the 84 in parentheses stand for?


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## DaMayor (May 28, 2003)

3 Bottles @ 84 servings each.......? Sounds like a substantial savings. (if that is the case)


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## Twin Peak (May 28, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> 3 Bottles @ 84 servings each.......? Sounds like a substantial savings. (if that is the case)



Exactly.

Bear in mind though that proper dosing will be multiple servings throughout the day.

All dosing schedules will be discussed at a latter date.


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## Twin Peak (May 29, 2003)

More product info:

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/page.php?pageID=22


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## DaMayor (May 30, 2003)

Informative.


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## Twin Peak (May 30, 2003)

Ladies and gentlemen.

First, I want to thank you all for your patient and continued interest.  LG II in beta form will be available in the next few weeks, and pre-orders are currently being taken.

Now, on to the more important matter -- the tester.   After much, much deliberation on this, Justin and I have decided that, due to his past history, and current fucked up dieting state (had to throw that in) the loveable, affable, DaMayor has been selected as Avant's IM beta tester.

Via this post, I am going to ask him to begin a journal starting Monday.  This journal is not, I repeat NOT for chatting, and in fact, I ask that no posts be made that are not related to his questions, thoughts, or feelings on the product, or on his background that is related to product use.

I will be asking him questions and telling him what he should put in there, in terms of relevant types of information, but the product is his, and he should and will post his actual and true feelings and opinions on the product, unbiased and untainted.

DM, can you start up the journal on Monday?  First post should be a background post, history, dieting issues and experiences, as well as goals etc.  List other supplements and general training guidlines, as well as current and intended diet, in detail.

If you start now, we will all have a bit of background to assess your use by.

I ask that you update it at least every other day, or twice weekly.  I ask that you ate least mention thinks like:

- cravings or lack thereof
- hunger or lack thereof
- weekly relative strength increase or decrease
- weight loss
- bodyfat loss (get calipers or at least take tape measurements of your stomach, neck, and arm)
- and obviously, anything else that is different or noticable from how you previously felt or did when dieting

(Justin, anything else?)

Again, thank you all for your interest.  And I promise to bring other new products to IM for testing.


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## Triple Threat (May 30, 2003)

Can we at least harass him if he starts slacking?


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## Twin Peak (May 30, 2003)

Of course.


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## DaMayor (May 30, 2003)

Journal will start Monday, if not sooner. (Re: background, etc.)

And, for the record, while I usually spend a great deal of my time here poking fun and volleying insults with my debauched comrades, this will be approached with all seriousness, as I do appreciate the opportunity....thus far. 

Captain Deadlift, you are hereby appointed head of the harrassment committee.....chide away, sir. 

Again, any questions pertinent to the product or it's effects and/or benefits are welcomed......from _any_ IM member.

Thanks!


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## Twin Peak (May 30, 2003)

DM, email me your address.


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## DaMayor (May 30, 2003)

Will do.


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## icyfresh21 (Jun 17, 2003)

I know this post is a few months old, but I am definately interested in trying new products. I am a female bodybuilder that has a problem with low-carb dieting. I have always been able to get pretty muscular, and I can always get lean enough to show it off, but I usually hover in the 21-24% area which is kind of high for a boxer/bodybuilder. I also am in the military and work 12 hour rotating shifts which make it really hard to stay on any regular eating schedule. It is hard enough fitting in the 2 hour workout and sport.  Still looking for candidates? Let me know...


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## Twin Peak (Jun 17, 2003)

Thanks for the interest.  We have selected our tester, he has started a journal, for a baseline, and he should start with the product inside of three weeks.


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## icyfresh21 (Jun 17, 2003)

Let us know if it works, and if it does where we can get it


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## Twin Peak (Jun 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by icyfresh21 *_
> Let us know if it works, and if it does where we can get it



Oh, it will work.   But you can monitor DaMayor's thread, to see an unbiased view.  It will be available for sale and shipment in around 3 weeks, directly from www.avantlabs.com.


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## icyfresh21 (Jun 17, 2003)

Any idea on the price and it's use for females? I'll go online and see what you got too... Anything else you reccomend for giurls?


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## Twin Peak (Jun 17, 2003)

All of the current products we sell (it is currently a small line) are equally beneficial for males and females a like.  This includes Leptigen.  Prices are on the website, and its "actual" cost will depend on the dose needed, which will depend on a variety of things including size, how close you are above or below your natural setpoint, and how long you have been dieting for.


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## icyfresh21 (Jun 17, 2003)

Ok I checked it out. I want to order. What would you reccomend.
177lbs 21-24%. 

I want to be 165. My problem definately lies in the dieting area. I can't control it when I work 12 hour desk shifts that rotate days to mids.  have really great strength and good intensity in the gym. Do you reccomend appetite suppresants or the new Leptigen you are making?


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## Twin Peak (Jun 17, 2003)

The appetite suppresant is to be used when the hunger strikes, and will deaden it for a few hours, until your next meal.  It is a band-aid, so to speak.

Leptigen is a much more "nuclear" supplement, in that it corrects many of the problems that occur when dieting, and aids nuitrient partitioning (to help you build muscle and lose fat concomittently), and will, as a side effect, naturally supress hunger by getting at the root of the problem.

FL7 -- will systemically increase thyroid efficiency, and help make a diet more effective.

Ab-Solved is a targeted abdominal fat supplement.

Lipoderm-Y is a targeted fat supplement, that works best everywhere but the abs (though it will work on abs, just not as effectively as AS).


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## icyfresh21 (Jun 17, 2003)

Ordered.. Can I pre-order the leptigen II?


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## Robboe (Jun 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Lipoderm-Y is a targeted fat supplement, that works best everywhere but the abs (though it will work on abs, just not as effectively as AS).




???

Je ne comprends pas.


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## Robboe (Jun 17, 2003)

Oh wait, AS = Ab-solved.


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## Twin Peak (Jun 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by icyfresh21 *_
> Ordered.. Can I pre-order the leptigen II?



What did you order?

Yes, I believe preorders are still being taken on the site.


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## Twin Peak (Jun 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Oh wait, AS = Ab-solved.



And your IQ is allegedly higher than mine.  Damn I must be dumb.


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## icyfresh21 (Jun 17, 2003)

Thanks, I ordered some anorec-ic and I will try to pre-order the other. 

I will try the other after I run out of the stuff that I am currently taking, although it isn't working real well. (Impact Nutrition)


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## Robboe (Jun 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> And your IQ is allegedly higher than mine.  Damn I must be dumb.



I read 'AS' as anabolic steroids and then posted quickly. A total brain fart on my part.

In my defense, i'm a bit doo-lally after intervals earlier this afternoon.


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## icyfresh21 (Jun 17, 2003)

I am having trouble staying awake on the desk myself.. Whoo


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## ZECH (Jun 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by icyfresh21 *_
> 
> (Impact Nutrition)


Nooooooooo! You didn't!!!!!!!


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## icyfresh21 (Jun 17, 2003)

*I know*

I didn't know all of the bad stuff about them.. Is it really that bad? 
Nitrophen 
derma-lean
khino-h

Bad? ( got it way discounted becuz of a friend)


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## ZECH (Jun 17, 2003)

They are known as a scam company with bad products, just out to get your money!


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## icyfresh21 (Jun 17, 2003)

Damn, do you think they will work at all? What should I do now? Is this stuff going to hurt me?


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## icyfresh21 (Jun 17, 2003)

*I know*

I didn't know all of the bad stuff about them.. Is it really that bad? 
Nitrophen 
derma-lean
khino-h

Bad? ( got it way discounted becuz of a friend)


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## ZECH (Jun 17, 2003)

By bad I meant not worth the money(not doing what they say). It won't hurt you, just don't expect too much!


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## icyfresh21 (Jun 17, 2003)

Well I am open for advice if you have any to give


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## ZECH (Jun 17, 2003)

I think TP put you on the best track! I am also a fan of Avant!


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## icyfresh21 (Jun 17, 2003)

Thanks, I'll give it a try, I have been out of the scene for awhile now and I don't have a clue as to half of this new junk out there.. Thanks for the input


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## ZECH (Jun 17, 2003)

What branch of the military are you in??


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## icyfresh21 (Jun 17, 2003)

Army.. Ft. Carson


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## ZECH (Jun 17, 2003)

Cool!


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## icyfresh21 (Jun 17, 2003)

You in the military? It is hard to cut while being here


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## Molehonea (Jul 11, 2003)

Can you still get into the testing? If so were do I sighn up.


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## Molehonea (Jul 11, 2003)

Were do i sighn up?


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## Twin Peak (Jul 11, 2003)

Not for this product, but perhaps future ones.  Be on the lookout.


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