# Hypothyriodism: Brassica (Cruciferous Veggies, canola, mustard) and Soy:  Need Help P



## Dr. Pain (Apr 9, 2003)

Continuing on with the valuable insights form the soy thread.....we would like to examine the similarities/differences the effects these foods have on thyriod function.

Having only made a cursory run through some literature....it appears both goitertropic/genic tendencies w/these foods, are only prevelent w/iodine deficiency......



> A number of commonly eaten foods have been shown to interfere with the use of iodine by the thyroid, thus reducing production of thyroid hormone and causing goiter. These foods, known as goitrogens, include vegetables in the Brassica family such as broccoli, cabbage, kale and mustard,17 millet,18 soybeans,19 pine nuts20 and some seed meals used in animal feeds.21 22 These foods can be safely eaten in moderate amounts by people who consume adequate iodine.23 A combination of low iodine intake and high intake of goitrogenic foods increases the likelihood of goiter.24 25



http://www.mycustompak.com/healthNotes/Concern/Goiter.htm

We can clearly find literature that soy interferes w/thyroxine/TSH reguation.......

http://www.ag.uiuc.edu/archives/experts/health/1998a/1069.html

But  I would  like help in determning the mechanism(s) of goiter/hypothyriodism in the Brassica family veggies: Broccoli, cabbage, califlower, mustard, rapeseed, etc)

* Please!.....all those contributing to this thead.....let's be informative, whethter you take a pro or con stance....and not argumentive.  Questions for clarification are more than Welcome!* 


Thanks All 

DP


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## kuso (Apr 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> Having only made a cursory run through some literature....it appears both goitertropic/genic tendencies w/these foods, are only prevelent w/iodine deficiency......



Or when taken in large amounts



> Some types of foods are reputed to be goiterogenic, which means they create problems with thyroid hormones. Common foods with this reputation are members of the brassica family (which includes cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, cabbage and broccoli) and soyfoods. The brassica family causes problems with the metabolism of thyroid hormones only when they're consumed in high amounts such as when a person regularly drinks cabbage juice (Natural Toxins, 1995, vol. 3).







> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> We can clearly find literature that soy interferes w/thyroxine/TSH reguation.......



It also appears most of what both you and I have found of this is based on babies consuming, or having consumed soy formula, and vegetarians with extensive consumption of soy products...........not really the norm IMO.


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 9, 2003)

Does Soy Have a DARK SIDE?
Author/s: Sally Eauclaire Osborne
Issue: March, 1999

You've heard about the research touting soy's benefits, but some experts say you haven't heard the whole story.

ON THE LAND OF HEALTH FOODS, SOY IS KING. It's considered a near-perfect protein, one that's packed with compounds that can fight disease and promote health. Soy's plant estrogens--isoflavones--are said to prevent cancer, cut cholesterol, reverse osteoporosis, and wipe out menopausal symptoms. Earl Mindell, Ph.D., a registered pharmacist and author of Earl Mindell's Soy Miracle (Simon & Schuster, 1995), joins many nutritionists and doctors when he says, "Anyone who wants to live longer should be eating this food."

Yet a few scientists think the coronation of soy as a miracle food is premature. They claim that while some soyfoods offer distinct health benefits, others pose health risks, particularly to people who consume large amounts of soy. *Critics cite four main potential dangers associated with eating too much soy or too much of certain kinds of soyfoods: One, soyfoods can disrupt the functioning of the thyroid gland: two, soyfoods can interfere with the digestion of proteins: three, they contain substances that rob the body of minerals: and four, soy's isoflavones may upset hormone balance.*

How the Controversy Began

As early as 1917 researchers noted that soybeans had to be heat-treated in order for soy-fed rats to grow--presumably because soy contains a substance that inhibits digestion. Over the years, scientists have reported other potential problems with soy In this decade two women--Mary G. Enig, Ph.D., a fellow at the American College of Nutrition and a nutritional biochemist in Silver Spring, Md., and Sally W. Fallon, editor of the Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation Journal, which reports on the dietary habits of indigenous peoples--sought to make sense of these studies.

*In 1995, Enig and Fallon believed they had found enough research to support certain charges against soy, particularly the concerns over thyroid inhibition, protein digestion, and mineral absorption. *They wrote an article for the September 1995 issue of Health Freedom News--a publication of the nonprofit health advocacy group called National Health Federation in Monrovia, Calif.--in which *they detailed these charges and cited dozens of scientific studies.*

Enig and Fallon do not believe all soy products are equally suspect. *"Some beneficial factors may appear in soyfoods prepared by traditional fermentation methods, such as miso, tempeh, and natto," Fallon says. Fermentation involves a slow chemical change triggered by bacteria, molds, or yeast. Enig and Fallon state that this process eliminates soy's problems by making it more digestible and deactivating potentially harmful substances. They see more problems with nonfermented soyfoods: tofu, soymilk, texturized soy protein, and soy protein isolate. (For definitions, see "Soy Glossary" on the next page.)*

Since the 1995 article, other researchers have reported that soy may adversely affect hormones and have questioned the claims that soy fights cancer (see "Genistein and Cancer: Enemies or Allies?" on page 158).

After reviewing a few of the studies on the adverse effects of soy, Alan R. Gaby, M.D., *a nutrition professor at Bastyr University in Kenmore, Wash., says, "I certainly think caution is reasonable. Soy is probably beneficial in moderate amounts, possibly harmful in larger amounts."*

* Meanwhile, as researchers debate these charges, some nutritional counselors have begun to suspect that soy may be to blame for the low energy, digestive disturbances, hypothyroidism, infertility, and other ailments they see in clients.*

Brian R. Clement, director of the Hippocrates Health Institute, a raw foods, vegan clinic in West Palm Beach, Fla., says, "People come to us unshakeable in their belief that tofu, soy burgers, soy this, soy that are all good for you. They're not." Clement says his clinic staff has found it three times more difficult to bring the blood chemistry of people on a heavy soy diet to optimal levels than to improve the blood chemistry of people who eat little or no soyfoods. (Blood chemistry, according to Clement, includes everything from iron levels to pH balance.)

A number of scientists disagree with Clement. Mark Messina, Ph.D., a former program director in the diet and cancer branch of the National Cancer Institute and co-author of The Simple Soybean and Your Health (Avery, 1994), responds, "I'm not saying those stories are poppycock, but it bothers me as a scientist when anecdotal data is given too much credence. The problems might not be from soy. What else were those people consuming? The way to know is to look at published scientific studies. Researchers who have looked hard for adverse effects haven't found many."

Below we take a look at the research and at what some experts think about the charges lodged against soy.

Does Soy Disrupt the Thyroid?

The thyroid gland in the front of the neck secretes thyroid hormones and controls metabolism. Several scientists have linked soy consumption to suppressed thyroid function, including hypothyroidism (in which the gland produces not enough hormones). Researchers at the North Shore University Hospital-Cornell University Medical College in Manhasset, N.Y., found that children with autoimmune thyroid disease had consumed significantly more soy-based milk formulas than had their healthy siblings and other healthy children. These findings were published in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition in 1990. *One year later, a 1991 Japanese study published in the Japanese journal Nippon Naibunpi gakkai Zasshi showed that soybeans could trigger goiters (an enlargement of the thyroid) and hypothyroidism. Half of the 17 healthy adult participants who ate 30 g of pickled roasted soybeans a day for three months developed a small goiter and/or experienced hypothyroidism.* One month after the study was completed, all thyroids had returned to normal size and hypothyroidism *symptoms such as constipation and fatigue had disappeared.*

Some experts, however, believe that only certain people are apt to develop hypothyroidism from eating soy. "For soy to actually cause hypothyroidism, you'd have to be bordering on hypothyroidism to begin with," says naturopath Martin Milner, N.D., president of the Center for Natural Medicine in Portland, Ore., and developer of a new treatment for hypothyroidism.

*And the amount of soy a person eats may also determine whether this food interferes with thyroid function. "I don't think you can get into trouble if you eat a few soyfoods within the bounds of a balanced diet," as long as you don't have a compromised thyroid system, says Daniel R. Doerge, Ph.D., a researcher at the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) National Center for Toxicological Research in Jefferson, Ark., who has isolated and studied the "anti-thyroid" components of soy. "But I see substantial risks from taking soy supplements or eating huge amounts of soyfoods for their putative disease-preventive value. There is definitely potential for interaction with the thyroid."*

Does Soy Contain Digestion Blockers?

*Some researchers consider soy difficult to digest because it inhibits the functioning of the pancreatic enzyme called trypsin. The body needs trypsin to properly digest protein.* But all legumes have substances called trypsin inhibitors that interfere with the work of this enzyme. (Soy is thought to have more of these inhibitors than other beans.) When there is less trypsin, more undigested and partially digested protein molecules move through the digestive tract.

Mindell acknowledges that mw soybeans do contain trypsin inhibitors. "But who's eating raw soybeans? No one," he says. "Processing and cooking deactivates all the trypsin inhibitors."

Biochemist Irvin E. Liener, Ph.D., professor emeritus at the University of Minnesota, reviewed the studies done on trypsin inhibitors and concluded that most soyfoods on the market retain 5 to 20 percent of the trypsin-inhibitor activity of raw soybeans. His findings appeared in the Journal of Nutrition in 1995. In that same issue, researchers Robert L. Anderson, Ph.D., and Walter J. Wolf, Ph.D., of the U.S. Department of Agriculture's (USDA) National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research in Peoria, Ill., reported that fermented soyfoods such as miso and soy sauce generally have lower levels of trypsin inhibitors than soyfoods that are processed and cooked but not fermented.

Some researchers point out that eliminating all trypsin inhibitors may not be ideal. While high levels of these inhibitors have triggered what appear to be premalignant lesions in the pancreases of animals, low levels may have cancer-fighting and cancer-preventing abilities. What's unknown is the level to consume for optimal health. Liener wrote:* "If soybean trypsin inhibitors are to be recommended for their anticarcinogenic effects, it becomes important to establish the upper limit of exposure at which one can expect this preventive effect against cancer but beyond which one runs the risk of incurring adverse effects that have been generally ascribed to the protease inhibitors [which include trypsin inhibitors]."

Does Soy Prevent the Absorption of Minerals?

The bran or hulls of seeds, found in beans, grains, nuts, and other plant foods, contain phytates (or phytic acids). These phytates bind to essential minerals such as calcium, iron, and zinc in the digestive tract and prevent them from being absorbed.


tbc......*


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 9, 2003)

Soybeans possess a lot of phytates; some researchers say more than other beans. Additionally, soy's phytates are so strong that many survive phytate-reducing techniques such as cooking. (The phytates in whole grains can be deactivated by some soaking or fermenting techniques.)

Fallon and Enig say only long periods of soaking and fermenting--as are used in making miso, natto, shoyu, tamari, and tempeh (but not tofu, soymilk, texturized soy protein, or soy protein isolate)--significantly reduce the phytate content of soybeans. Anderson and Wolf, in their article in the Journal of Nutrition in 1995, also report that tempeh has lower phytate levels than unfermented soyfoods. *Fallon believes that eating more than 12 g of these unfermented foods a day (equal to about a tablespoon) can lead to a shortage of crucial minerals.

But not everyone agrees that phytates are a bad thing. They can move excess minerals out of the body. Stephen Holt, M.D., a gastroenterologist and author of The Soy Revolution: The Food of the Next Millennium (M. Evans and Company, 1998), says phytates shield us from dangerously high levels of minerals such as iron.* And some animal studies have suggested that phytates stop the growth of cancerous tumors. In Earl Mindell's Soy Miracle, Mindell writes that phytates can bind with minerals that may feed tumors.

Does Soy Cause Hormone Havoc?

The plant estrogens (phytoestrogens) found in soy, including isoflavones, resemble the natural estrogens in our body. This could be why soy consumption promises relief from menopausal symptoms, among other benefits. Yet critics of soy say these isoflavones could cause two specific problems.

First, some researchers speculate that an isoflavone-rich diet could interfere with our ability to reproduce. Scientists have linked infertility to the soy diet of animals such as cheetah and quail. For example, researchers at the Children's Hospital Medical Center in Cincinnati, Ohio, analyzed the diet of cheetahs living in zoos to figure out why the animals experienced infertility. In the journal Gastroenterology in 1987, the researchers theorized that the cheetahs' phytoestrogenrich soy diet was probably a major factor.

Messina says it's possible but unlikely that soy could affect fertility, "but as far as I know there's no problem with reproduction and fertility in the Japanese population or in the American vegetarian population [two groups that eat soy]."

(According to Soyatech, Inc., a soy research firm in Bar Harbor, Maine, the estimated daily soybean consumption was 9 g per capita in China and 30 g per capita in Japan in 1991. In the United States, the estimated daily consumption was 7.5 g per capita in 1991; it rose to 11.2 g in 1996. One cup of cooked soybeans equals 180 g.)

Second, a few researchers question if isoflavones could interfere with the hormonal and sexual development of children. Cliff Irvine, D.Sc., a reproductive endocrinologist at Lincoln University in Canterbury, New Zealand, studied the isoflavone levels in soy infant foods and found that the daily recommended intake of soy formula provides 3 mg of isoflavones per kilogram of body weight--a level he says is more than four times the level found to change reproductive hormones in women. His findings were published in Proceedings of the Society for Experimental Biology and Medicine in March 1998.

The findings of Irvine and other researchers led some New Zealand residents to lobby for a ban on the sale of soy infant formula except by prescription. The New Zealand government recently decided not to ban the formulas but rather to accelerate studies of possible adverse effects.

In America, the infant formula concern has received much less publicity, but Daniel M. Sheehan, Ph.D., a researcher at the FDA's National Center for Toxicological Research in Jefferson, Ark., expresses caution. "Infants fed soy-based formulas are part of a large, uncontrolled, and basically unmonitored human infant experiment, with uncertain risks and benefits," he says.

"There does exist a theoretical basis for raising concerns," Messina says in response to the formula charges. But, he adds, soy formula has been used in the United States for at least 30 years, without any apparent harm to infants. "To my knowledge there are no letters or case studies published in scientific journals citing problems in soy-fed infants that might be attributed to estrogenic effects. Furthermore, many short-term studies that have evaluated infants and children fed soy infant formula have concluded that soy formula promotes normal growth and development."

RELATED ARTICLE: SOY GLOSSARY

ISOFLAVONE a plant-based estrogen (also called phytoestrogen) that interrupts the function of hormonal estrogen. Two well-known isoflavones are daidzein and genistein.

MISO a condiment (similar in texture to peanut butter) made with soybeans, rice or barley, and salt, and fermented with microorganisms for one to three years. "Quick" miso is pasteurized and aged for only a few days and has a less complex taste.

NATTO cooked whole soybeans fermented with microorganisms. With its strong flavor, some call natto the Asian answer to blue cheese.

SHOYU traditional Asian soy sauce made from the liquid pressed from miso paste. Most soy sauce sold in the United States is unfermented and made from defatted soybean meal (mashed soybeans that have had the fat removed from them).

SOYMILK unfermented liquid made from soaked, ground, and cooked whole soybeans and water (also available as low-fat soymilk, which may contain soy protein isolate).

SOY PROTEIN ISOLATE an unfermented, highly refined soy protein used to make soy burgers, soy shakes, baked goods, and other foods.

TAMARI another name for traditional soy sauce (or shoyu).

TEMPEH cooked and fermented whole soybean cake. Can be eaten whole or crumbled into dishes.

TEXTURIZED SOY PROTEIN unfermented, highly refined meat-textured granules made with defatted soy flour (made from soybeans that have been hulled, cracked, and heat-treated) that is compressed until the structure of the protein changes. Often used to replace ground beef in recipes.

TOFU unfermented soybean curd, made by curdling fresh hot soymilk with a coagulant, usually salt. --Clare Horn

RELATED ARTICLE: GENISTEIN AND CANCER: ENEMIES OR ALLIES?

THERE IS MUCH TALK, and hope, in the soy research community that soy genistein, one of the isoflavones, can prevent and even cure cancer. Because genistein's molecular structure resembles the hormone estrogen, it is said to occupy estrogen-receptor sites on cells and block the growth of hormonally induced tumors such as breast cancer tumors. Human and animal studies have shown that isoflavones can reduce tumors. There is also evidence that genistein might foil the formation of the new blood vessels needed to feed a growing tumor, as well as induce "immortal" cancer cells to die.

*However, some studies have contradicted these findings. William G. Helferich, Ph.D., a researcher at the University of Illinois, found that human estrogen-dependent breast cancer cells injected into mice multiply if the mice are fed genistein. His findings were published in Cancer Research in September 1998.

"We've seen a lot of good research that suggests that genistein is a cancer preventer, but it is dangerous to people who already have cancer," Helferich says. "Caution is warranted."*

There is no solid explanation why the research is contradictory. One theory is that the full complement of isoflavones and other components as they occur naturally in soyfoods is needed to produce positive results, not just one isolated substance such as genistein.

*"The jury is still out as to whether soy or genistein reduces cancer risk," says Mark Messina, Ph.D., co-author of The Simple Soybean and Your Health (Avery, 1994). "The most solid research is that soy lowers cholesterol. Almost everything else is speculative, though very encouraging.... My opinion is that the isoflavones are safe as long as you take an amount that you could reasonably get from soyfoods."*

--S.E.O.

Sally Eauclaire Osborne is a freelance writer in Santa Fe, N.M.


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 9, 2003)

Just a personal note:  

When there is a combination of Empirical/Scientific/Anecdotal informantion presented in the field of Food /Nutrition/Dietetics....

I personally find that those "in the field" are generally ahead of those in the laboratory...

JMHO

That article contained both pros and cons....it was FYI only! 

DP


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## kuso (Apr 9, 2003)

Straight from mercola I see.....this would have been better suited to the soy thread though, as it has nothing to do with brassica family vegetables and there is not point re starting the soy discussion here too.

Besides which, if you read the un-higlighted patrs there, you can still see that in all reality, no one is sure and there are still many for soy, even though the article is written to write it off so to speak.


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## kuso (Apr 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> Just a personal note:
> 
> When there is a combination of Empirical/Scientific/Anecdotal informantion presented in the field of Food /Nutrition/Dietetics....
> ...



If its a combination of "Empirical/Scientific/Anecdotal " wouldn`t the scientific replate to work done in a lab?

Anyway, you may disreguard my last post...having pc trouble so it took so fucking long to reply the first time you had already replied again.


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## Nigeepoo (Apr 10, 2003)

Are the goitrogenic substances in vegetables from the brassica family reduced/eliminated by cooking?


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## Dr. Pain (Apr 10, 2003)

Good question....I believe cooking changes the lignan structure in carrots, fermenting changes the phylate content of soy,,,but honestly I have no idea here? 

We'd be interested on your input re: these foods and hypothyroidism 

DP


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