# Natural bodybuilding supplement advice?



## batmansam (Feb 16, 2011)

Just joined! My boyfriend is getting into Natural body building so I thought I should get to know more. Can anyone tell me what is allowed and not allowed in natural bodybuilding? Any suggestions for a great supplement I can get him for a present to show my support? He is into energy supplements and getting bigger (obviously). Thanks!


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## OutWhey (Feb 16, 2011)

WHAT IS DRUG FREE?
7-KETO DHEA TAKEN OFF WNBF BANNED SUBSTANCES LIST!


For the FIRST TIME EVER, a compound has been TAKEN OFF the INBF Banned Substances List. The compound in question is the fat-burning supplement 7-Keto DHEA (also known as 7-OXO DHEA), and it will be allowed for use by WNBF members as of June 1, 2007.

The INBF's professional affiliate, the WNBF, has been doing independent research on supplements since its inception in 1990, in order to help natural athletes avoid compounds that are dangerous, ineffective, illegal or all three. Steroids have always been on the banned list, and when prohormones became a problem due to athletes failing urine tests for "legal supplements," the WNBF became the first sports federation to ban their use. This was in 1999. It took the FDA and U.S. Federal Government six years to validate the WNBF stance, when they banned androstenedione, norandro and other prohormonal products for sale. Of course, the INBF (and also the NANBF and all other WNBF amateur affiliates) followed the same rulings as the WNBF.

The ruling in the WNBF (and INBF by extension) extended to all compounds with prohormonal tendencies, including DHEA, androstenetrione, A7-E and all others. This also included 7-Keto DHEA.

HOWEVER, since March 2006 the WNBF has been doing additional investigation into the safety, fat-burning efficacy and possible steroidal tendencies of 7-Keto. After over a year of review of studies submitted by the Humanetics Corporation to the FDA and State of California, as well as research by the government of Australia and independent research in the scientific community, the WNBF has determined 7-Keto DHEA will be REMOVED from the Banned Substances List. As a result, 7-Keto DHEA is ALSO REMOVED FROM THE BANNED SUBSTANCES LIST OF THE INBF.

This is due to the following reasons:

1.The FDA has ruled on two occasions in response to applications by Humanetics, Inc., that 7-Keto DHEA is safe for consumers when used for fat-loss.
2.Safety rulings by the State of California and the Australian Government Dept. of Health and Ageing, Office of Chemical Safety also ruled the compound as safe.
3.The Australian Government Dept. of Health and Ageing, Office of Chemical Safety ruled in March 2007 that "Data from published literature establishes that whilst structurally related to DHEA and testosterone, 7-Keto DHEA does not have biological action at the androgen receptor. Thus this substance is not expected to produce an androgenic effect."
4.Review of clinical research by Dr. Zenk shows that 7-Keto DHEA is introduced to the Metabolic Pathway in the body beyond DHEA, and does not trigger androstenedione or androstenediol production in the body. It occupies a "metabolic dead end" that doesn't cause anabolism in the body. Therefore, 7-Keto DHEA does not cause anabolic changes, nor will it trigger a urine test failure.
Dr. Zenk explains that 7-Keto DHEA triggers fat loss by a means other than increasing norepinepherine production (as does ephedra, caffeine, etc.). It instead activates three thermogenic enzymes that are required for fatty acid metabolism. By activating Acetyl CoA (a sustrate in the Krebs cycle), 7-Keto assists the body in metabolizing fatty acids, which spurs safe weight (fat) loss. 7-Keto declines with age, and is excreted in the urine. It has been studied as a weight-loss compound for more than 16 years and is non-toxic, non-anabolic and without any serious side effects.

As a result of the research presented to the WNBF and studied by its Executive Committee and its supplement advisors, the federation has ruled that 7-Keto DHEA is allowable for use.

HOWEVER, this ruling applies to 7-Keto DHEA (aka 7-OXO DHEA) ONLY. The fat-burning compounds sold as A7-D and A7-E are NOT allowed, nor are any that contain "etiochollonane" or "etiocholene" or other HORMONAL COMPOUNDS.

As always, it is up to WNBF members to carefully investigate their products BEFORE USING THEM. Failure to do so (which results in the use of a banned substance) will still be cause for failure and expulsion from the WNBF.

??? Steve Downs, C.S.C.S.
WNBF Chairman

WHEN IT COMES TO BEING TRULY "DRUG-FREE," NOT ALL BODYBUILDING FEDERATIONS ARE ALIKE
By Steve Downs, WNBF Chairman

For several decades, the term "Natural Bodybuilding" has been bandied about to describe numerous actual descriptions of drug-free competitions. These range from one-year off drugs to natural-for-life. But it's not just the time element that's critical, but what is actually BANNED by natural federations. Quasi-supplements such as prohormones, pro-steroids, anti-estrogenics, thermogenic aids and hormonal products straddle the line between an "anything goes" mentality and drug-tested sports. And their use is clearly the determining factor you should consider when choosing your contests and federation(s).

The WNBF has, since 1999, banned all prohormones. Each year, new products are added to this list as they come out. Our philosophy (which is reflected by the amateur INBF and NANBF affiliates of the pro WNBF) is that any product that is hormonal in nature is deemed illegal. This includes any of the products that contain pharmaceutical ingredients of hormones found within the pregnenalone-to-testosterone metabolic pathway in the body. These include, obviously, androstene, androstendione, androdiol, norandro and even DHEA . Cometitors must also be cognizent of the "name game" in the supplement industry that includes the chemical name for androstene (which is etiocholene) in place of the more recognized real name. Any competitor should recognize androstene (and, therefore, etiocholane) as being prohormonal.

To be careful, choose your federation based on the strictest Banned Substances List. Remember, just because a product works isn't a reason why it should be legal to use (as in A7-E, used in Hot Rox and other products, etc.). If that was the case, you might as well just use steroids! (But please DON'T.)

That said, remember that the WNBF (as do the INBF and NANBF amateur affiliates) tests for a 7-years-natural requirement, and ALL pro athletes are tested at every show via polygraph. Furthermore, any WNBF pro who wins prize money at a WNBF contest is also urinalysis tested by WADA-approved standards. In addition, within all INBF and NANBF amateur pro-qualifiers for the WNBF, any eligible competitor (class winner or overall, depending on the event) is also urine-tested by the same stringent WNBF-approved guidelines.

Please check out the 2007 WNBF Banned Substances List below to find out just how NATURAL the WNBF really is! And if you have a question regarding a supplement or its ingredient be sure to e-mail inbf@epix.net for a ruling on its legality BEFORE USING IT!

EPHEDRA STILL BANNED BY WNBF (AND FDA)
By Steve Downs, WNBF Chairman

For the record, despite all the news over the course of 2004 to 2006 about the FDA ban on ephedra being overturned via court action in Colorado, ephedra is still officially banned by the FDA. During the summer of 2006, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit in Denver reversed a 2004 District Court ruling, and upheld the FDA's ruling that ephedrine supplements are illegal.

Interestingly enough, not much has been made in the traditional media ??? nor on bodybuilding websites or forums ??? about the FDA ban being upheld. A U.S. District Court judge in Salt Lake City originally ruled in favor of Nutraceuticals International Corp. in their lawsuit against the FDA ban on low-dose ephedra products in 2004, but the FDA didn't back down on its ban nationally. With the help of Sherrif's Departments in states such as Pennsylvania and Georgia, the FDA continued to raid manufacturers and distributors of ephedra alkaloids and seize millions of dollars in products. And with the most recent decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals to uphold the ban, the controversial fat-burner should soon disappear from the market completely.

Please note, however, that some companies continue to sell ephedra alkaloids via "no-doze" type supplements in an effort to sidestep the FDA ban. Nonetheless, these products are NOT legal for use as dietary weight loss supplements, and are BANNED from use in the WNBF (and its amateur INBF and NANBF affiliates).

Bottom line: Ephedra was banned by the WNBF as of July 1, 2004, and is STILL BANNED by the WNBF (as well as INBF and NANBF). It is a dangerous and illegal stimulant product. Stay away from it!

2009 LIST OF INBF BANNED SUBSTANCES
(Effective 1/1/09)

The following substances and related compounds are banned by BOTH the INBF and WNBF and their use constitutes grounds for dismissal from INBF Competitions and suspension from membership privileges in the organization for a period of seven years from the failure date. This list is effective January 1, 2009. 

ANABOLIC STEROIDS. All Anabolic Steroids, including but not limited to bolasterone, boldenone, chioroxomesterone (dyhdrochlormethyl*testerone), clostebol, fluoxymesterone, mesterolone, methandienone, methyltestosterone, nandrolone, norethandrolone, oxandrolone, oxymetholone, stanozolol, testosterone and all other related compounds, are strictly banned.

TESTOSTERONE (injections, patches, gels) in any form or for any reason, even if under a doctor's prescription.

TESTOSTERONE/EPITESTOSTERONE RATIO. The T/E ratio is used to measure the presence of exogenous testosterone, or illicit eleva*tion of testosterone levels. A T/E ratio in excess of 6/1 is ruled as positive, no matter what the cause. Note: Should the use of any substance cause an elevated T/E ratio in excess of the 6/1 limit, the athlete will be ruled as positive (failure).

GROWTH HORMONES (PHARMACEUTICAL HGH, HCG and any other related compounds). Oral, spray or sublingual GH compounds of pharmaceutical (recumbinant DNA technology) origin are banned effective January 1, 2001.

HORMONES, PROHORMONES AND ALL PRECURSORS & METABOLITES, DERIVATIVES & RELATED COMPOUNDS. The use of any hormone (injectable, oral, sublingual or otherwise) for bodybuilding purposes ??? including insulin ??? is prohibited.


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## oufinny (Feb 17, 2011)

batmansam said:


> Just joined! My boyfriend is getting into Natural body building so I thought I should get to know more. Can anyone tell me what is allowed and not allowed in natural bodybuilding? Any suggestions for a great supplement I can get him for a present to show my support? He is into energy supplements and getting bigger (obviously). Thanks!



Here are a few suggestions and these are totally legal in natural competition.

This is a great natty test stack for adding mass:
Stacks :: Erase + TCF-1 Stack (1 +1 Units) -

Two of these will be an excellent 8 week run for adding mass or cutting fat, either way:
Stacks :: Erase + Titanium Stack (1 + 1 Units) -

Cutting stack:
Discount PES Shift Genomyx Heat

Ultimate test booster, get 2 to run for 8 weeks:
Discount phytoserms-347

Any of those are good for adding mass less the third choice, PM me if you have any further questions.


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## Gawd (Feb 17, 2011)

^^ Great choices oufinny
Here is another option for a Body Recomp supplement.

NEED 2 SLIN
Need 2 Slin
*Highlights:*

• Increase lean body mass
• Lower body fat
• Faster metabolism
• Boost thyroid output
• Increase testosterone
• Improve insulin sensitivity in muscle
• Increase natural energy
• Enhance muscular blood flow


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## Resolve (Feb 17, 2011)

Fin hit the nail on the head - can't go wrong with any of PES' stuff.


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## djm6464 (Feb 17, 2011)

Resolve said:


> Fin hit the nail on the head - can't go wrong with any of PES' stuff.



yeah pes has really come on strong with the few stuff they have


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## ryansm (Feb 17, 2011)

oufinny said:


> Here are a few suggestions and these are totally legal in natural competition.
> 
> This is a great natty test stack for adding mass:
> Stacks :: Erase + TCF-1 Stack (1 +1 Units) -
> ...


^^^Really good ideas here
Obviously the staples like Creatine and protein, and IBCAA's imo.


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## Good Grip (Feb 23, 2011)

I like Phyto Testosterone, Prime, Creapure creatine and Beta-alanine to name some. My brother competes in Natural bodybuilding and has won his class and overall at a few shows. His federation has a list of banned supplements, but anything that is not on the list is pretty much fair game WITHIN REASON. Feel free to pm me with any questions you might have.


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## djm6464 (Feb 23, 2011)

ryansm said:


> ^^^Really good ideas here
> Obviously the staples like Creatine and protein, and IBCAA's imo.



the phytoserms has bulbine no???? id read more on it before i took that stuff


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## oufinny (Feb 23, 2011)

djm6464 said:


> the phytoserms has bulbine no???? id read more on it before i took that stuff



Yes phytoserms has bulbine in it... care to post what you are referring to that is so negative about it?


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## Good Grip (Feb 24, 2011)

The logs on bulbine are so so.. Jury is still out on it imo.


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## djm6464 (Feb 24, 2011)

oufinny said:


> Yes phytoserms has bulbine in it... care to post what you are referring to that is so negative about it?



http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/3861/1/IJEB%2047%284%29%20283-288.pdf
http://nopr.niscair.res.in/handle/123456789/3861
http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/jmf.2008.0221

i want to see more real world human blood work first


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## Resolve (Feb 24, 2011)

~50% increases in cholesterol and ~100% increase in TAG is dramatic.  Are there any studies on this stuff with a human model?  I have not looked into bulbine at all.


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## ryansm (Feb 24, 2011)

I was unaware of this, hmmmm, have there been any users posting bloods?


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