# Dumbell vs. Straight Bar Bench



## junebug (Aug 3, 2001)

Have any of you noticed or read the differance between the two. Currently I bench with dumbells because I do not have a spotter. Should I harass someone to spot me or just stick with the DB's.



------------------
JuneBug
Limits are only mental.


----------



## seyone (Aug 3, 2001)

I prefer dumbells for their range of motion. If you want to use a bar but don't have a spotter you can use a power rack and set the pins just above your chest so you don't have to worry about the bar crushing you at failure.


----------



## Charger (Aug 4, 2001)

I think both are a must. You need DB for a better range of movement but you also need BB for more weight.
Also a spotter is not just for safety, he can assist you (as little as possible)when you get stuck on the last rep and I have often found having someone yelling at you motivates you also
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




Last of all don't think of asking for a spot as harassing someone. As long as someone is not interrupting me I enjoy giving a hand and spotting someone and some day they may need one too. 

------------------
Can't never did nothin,(Dedicated to my father)


----------



## TheSupremeBeing (Aug 4, 2001)

DB's are better because they allow for greater ROM, more stabilizer recruitement, takes advantage of the "stretch reflex" at the bottom of the movement, etc

BTW, comparitive weight differences mean shit when comparing two different exercises. 

------------------
_Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers._


----------



## Charger (Aug 4, 2001)

> *Originally posted by Mesofreaky:*
> I hate bb flat bench and I stick with dbs and charger its not unheard of for someone to be able to handle more total weight with dbs than with a bb.




I've never seen it. You show me a guy who's top bench is 300lbs and handle 150lb DB's


------------------
Can't never did nothin,(Dedicated to my father)


----------



## TheSupremeBeing (Aug 4, 2001)

Like I said, it doesn't matter.

------------------
_Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers._


----------



## sandwich (Aug 4, 2001)

for shape, and more strength areas, go DB's!
...i do them and built more strength in different areas using DB's. you can go deeper, build better grip, balance, stability strength with them.

------------------
...build natural,...be genuine!


----------



## Charger (Aug 4, 2001)

> *Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:*
> Like I said, it doesn't matter.


I agree with you as far as the two exercises being completely different and you cannot compare the weights because of that but I do think you need to shock your muscles with heavy weight, something that is hard to do with dumbbells.



------------------
Can't never did nothin,(Dedicated to my father)


----------



## Mesofreaky (Aug 4, 2001)

I hate bb flat bench and I stick with dbs and charger its not unheard of for someone to be able to handle more total weight with dbs than with a bb. Plus I rarely have a spotter and dbs are much safer.

------------------
freaky people do freaky things to stay freaky


----------



## TheSupremeBeing (Aug 5, 2001)

Muscle "shocking" is bullshit.

Yes you can "shock" the nervous system in a sense by forcing it to alter recruitement patterns among other stuff, but it's actually a bad thing since it just starts the optimization period over again, which creates rapid progress but halts muscle growth.

------------------
_Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers._


----------



## Charger (Aug 6, 2001)

I'm biting my tongue
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







Ok,for all of us here that DO believe in the benefits of changing your routine to include heavier sets or negatives, Dumbbells won't work
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




And for those who DON'T, good for you, thats your opinion.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




But don't call my opinion Bullsh!t
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




------------------
Can't never did nothin,(Dedicated to my father)


----------



## junebug (Aug 6, 2001)

Charger, help me out. I got a little confused. Am I wasting my time on Dumbbells or simply not getting the benifits I could if I altered my routine on occassion?

------------------
JuneBug
Limits are only mental.


----------



## TheSupremeBeing (Aug 6, 2001)

Well your opinion is bullshit.

------------------
_Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers._


----------



## junebug (Aug 6, 2001)

Supreme, whats with the complex? You seem very opionated on every topic you submit a post to. 

Also, swearing is a handicap for the language impaired so please on my posts try to layoff a bit, thanks.

------------------
JuneBug
Limits are only mental.


----------



## TheSupremeBeing (Aug 6, 2001)

LMAO, wut ya talkin' bout mofo?

I'm sorry I don't spell and grammar check my mutha fukin posts, bitch...I usually get mah point across, tho.


------------------
_Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers._


----------



## Mesofreaky (Aug 6, 2001)

he feels so strongly because hes right

P.S. you don't change things to shock your body you change to fight adaption foo

------------------
freaky people do freaky things to stay freaky


----------



## TheSupremeBeing (Aug 6, 2001)

True dat, i fink junebug iz just trifling, foo.

------------------
_Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers._


----------



## junebug (Aug 7, 2001)

I'm not saying supreme is right or wrong, I am merely pointing out in every comment he posts he is extremely objective, but that is ok, that is the point of the forum. What bothers me is how he gets his point across, must have been a jr. high dropout...

------------------
JuneBug
Limits are only mental.


----------



## crankytexan (Aug 7, 2001)

Ahh yea, Sir Crack has the intelligence of shit.

Don't worry Junebug he (TheSupremeBeing) was kicked off this forum when he was sircrack head.  He obviously didn't get the point.
His name just shows that he is full of himself.  

------------------
Everyday is a good day, when you are not six feet under.

<FONT COLOR="#000002" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[Edited 2 times, lastly by crankytexan on 08-07-2001 at 02:51 PM]</font>


----------



## TheSupremeBeing (Aug 7, 2001)

Yeah, I'm a dumbass.

Anyway, the reason varying your routine often sucks is simple. When you first start doing an exercise it is "new" to you body in a sense that it has never learned it. From the first time you use this exercise to roughly 4-8 weeks (the more complicated the exercise the longer this takes), the nervous system "learns" the exercise by optimizing itself to the movement primarily through altering intra and inter muscular coordination. For this reason you experience rapid progress when first using an exercise then as you continue using the exercise progress becomes slower and slower. At this point many people recommend switching up your routine to spark new progress, this is the exact opposite of what should be done! After this initial optimization the nervous system will have trained itself to recruit muscle fibers maximally in the given movement, in other words only AFTER the initial rapid progress can a muscle be maximally stimulated! By frequently varying exercises in your routine you are taking a step back in your quest for muscle growth.

------------------
_Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers._


----------



## Arnold (Aug 7, 2001)

> *Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:*
> Yeah, I'm a dumbass.



No, you're not a dumbass, you just have shitty communication skills! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







------------------
_Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!_


----------



## TheSupremeBeing (Aug 7, 2001)

Haha, fair enough.

------------------
_Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers._


----------



## junebug (Aug 7, 2001)

That's all I was trying to say. I believe the info you submit is sound much like the rest of the people on this forum, that is why I continue to come back. 

------------------
JuneBug
Limits are only mental.


----------



## Charger (Aug 7, 2001)

> *Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:*
> Well your opinion is bullshit.


Listen kid, my opinion is not bullshit. 



------------------
Can't never did nothin,(Dedicated to my father)


----------



## Charger (Aug 7, 2001)

> *Originally posted by junebug:*
> Charger, help me out. I got a little confused. Am I wasting my time on Dumbbells or simply not getting the benifits I could if I altered my routine on occassion?



No, In MY OPINION you are not wasteing your time with dumbbells,but if you ever decide to do negatives which alot of people do(which I am sure are all wrong)or want to just go heavy you will want to use a barbell.

Dumbbells have there place and so does BARBELLS.


------------------
Can't never did nothin,(Dedicated to my father)


----------



## TheSupremeBeing (Aug 7, 2001)

In my educated opinion your uneducated opinion is bullshit, Charger. How's that?






------------------
_Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers._


----------



## Charger (Aug 7, 2001)

My opinion is just that,it comes from what I have done in the gym myself, not what I have read in a book.
I'm done argueing with a punk kid that has no respect for other peoples opinions.
I have read your post and your theorys and in My Opinion your just to lazy to push it. You should try spending more time in the gym and less on your computer.

------------------
Can't never did nothin,(Dedicated to my father)


----------



## TheSupremeBeing (Aug 7, 2001)

Hahahaha...

So class, in this thread we have learned:

-Charger's opinion is bullshit.

-Varying exercises frequently is counter productive.

-I have poor communication skills.

Class dismissed.

------------------
_Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers._


----------



## Charger (Aug 8, 2001)

> *Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:*
> Hahahaha...
> 
> So class, in this thread we have learned:
> ...


You forgot to mention
TSB is- Disrespectful
        Just a punk kid



------------------
Can't never did nothin,(Dedicated to my father)


----------



## Maki Riddington (Aug 8, 2001)

Please calm down guys.

------------------
Exercise, my drug of choice


----------



## Mule (Aug 8, 2001)

<FONT COLOR="Red">Hehehehe, funny mule, but HEY its TSB not STB you dummass!!!
</FONT c> 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








------------------
Im an Iron Addict! 

<FONT COLOR="#000002" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[Edited 3 times, lastly by Scotty the Body on 08-09-2001 at 09:51 AM]</font>


----------



## Mace (Aug 8, 2001)

Back to the topic of discussion... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I would have to say the whole thing is apples and oranges... Similar exercises, different pourposes, (like cambered bar curls and alternate DB curls).  

------------------
Never get pulled over with a baggie of whey protein on the passenger seat...

<FONT COLOR="#000002" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[Edited 1 time by Mace on 08-09-2001 at 12:16 AM]</font>


----------



## Charger (Aug 9, 2001)

Agreed, good signature

------------------
Can't never did nothin,(Dedicated to my father)


----------



## ALBOB (Aug 10, 2001)

> *Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:*
> For this reason you experience rapid progress when first using an exercise then as you continue using the exercise progress becomes slower and slower. At this point many people recommend switching up your routine to spark new progress, this is the exact opposite of what should be done! After this initial optimization the nervous system will have trained itself to recruit muscle fibers maximally in the given movement, in other words only AFTER the initial rapid progress can a muscle be maximally stimulated!


Help me out here, if I keep making all this "rapid progress" by switching movements occasionally, how is that bad?  I kind of like rapid progress.  



------------------
Life is hard so quit whining and go out there and be alive.


----------



## junebug (Aug 10, 2001)

> *Originally posted by Mule:*
> <FONT COLOR="Red">Hehehehe, funny mule, but HEY its TSB not STB you dummass!!!
> </FONT c>



Mule you are killing me. Talk about irony of all ironies. It's Dumbass not dummass. Now that was funny



------------------

Limits are only mental.


----------



## Scotty the Body (Aug 10, 2001)

> *Originally posted by junebug:*
> Mule you are killing me. Talk about irony of all ironies. It's Dumbass not dummass. Now that was funny



hahahaha, that was me editing Mules post, I was trying to do it fast before TSB saw it and flamed him back, guess I'm the "dummass" lol



------------------
Just another day in the gutter


----------



## TheSupremeBeing (Aug 10, 2001)

Because the rapid progress is specific to that movement and is purely neural, only after the rapid progress (neural optimization) is complete does muscle growth occur.

------------------
_Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers._


----------



## Charger (Aug 10, 2001)

Maybe if we all just think really hard like TSB our muscles will grow. maybe if we spend all our time on the net posting our words of wisdom instead of in the gym sweeting we will get huge!

------------------
Can't never did nothin,(Dedicated to my father)


----------



## new1shmoo (Aug 10, 2001)

> *Originally posted by Charger:*
> Maybe if we all just think really hard like TSB our muscles will grow. maybe if we spend all our time on the net posting our words of wisdom instead of in the gym sweeting we will get huge!



TSB needs at least 100 grams of protein  for brain recovery after his research of each post.


----------



## I Are Baboon (Aug 10, 2001)

> *Originally posted by Charger:*
> Maybe if we all just think really hard like TSB our muscles will grow. maybe if we spend all our time on the net posting our words of wisdom instead of in the gym sweeting we will get huge!



Hot damn!  I'm gonna try that!!!  **Baboon with eyes closed tight , fists clenched, thinking REAL hard** 

I'll let you know how it works out!


----------



## Arnold (Aug 10, 2001)

Okay, here's my two cents!

TSB does have some good advice and he is very good at posting scientific research.

However, if bodybuilding, nutrition, supplements and weight training were as black and white as he tries to make it out to be, there would be no reason to have discussion boards. We could all read a book and get huge. But this is not the case. There is *a lot* of grey area in bodybuilding, and everybody responds differently to things.

I believe in using real world experience with a bit of science as guide lines. And beyond that you just have to find out what works for you. This can be facilitated by hearing about other peoples experience with supplements, routines, diets, etc. 

*There is no ultimate book or person that has an answer for every individual when it comes to bodybuilding.*

You must remember TSB is young, and with youth comes ignorance and a lack of real world life experience. I am sure he means well when he posts his scientific evidence for every question on this board, but he is too young to understand that only with age comes wisdom. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




As many of you know who are "older", this is a very typical teenage attitude. Remember the saying *"when I was a teenager I knew everything!"*





So, what I'm trying to convey is that you should not let TSB or any other teenage "know it all" cause such animosity and anger. 

------------------
_Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!_


----------



## Charger (Aug 10, 2001)

Sorry Prince but I have to disagree. Regardless of someone's age they need to show respect for other members which TSB clearly doesn't, and frankly I am getting tired of it!
You should promote respect and teach this to our youth, not condone a brat cussing at us and trying to belittle us on every other post. What kind of example does that set for our other young members?
What has always set this forum apart from the others is the people! And if left alone, one rotten apple can root a whole barrel of apples.

------------------
Can't never did nothin,(Dedicated to my father)


----------



## junebug (Aug 10, 2001)

C'mon Prince. At this point we're having fun with him. Check out the post "new exercise routine".

Also I do not think anyone at this point is arguing his knowledge, they are moreless harping on his communication skills. In addition, do not be fooled by age. Children have a better manners than TSB. I would certainly hope we can agree he does not pass himself off as one with much class.  

Enough said in my book

------------------

Limits are only mental.


----------



## w8lifter (Aug 10, 2001)

> You must remember TSB is young, and with youth comes ignorance and a lack of real world life experience. I am sure he means well when he posts his scientific evidence for every question on this board, but he is too young to understand that only with age comes wisdom.



Yes, but given the number of times he's been kicked off just about every bb forum, you'd think he'd grow up a little.  If TSB is able to comprehend the vast and often complicated information that he obviously reads, he should be capable of showing a little respect to another person's opinion.

TSB, you're knowledge is obviously welcome, not only here but at other forums as well. May I suggest a 10-second typing timeout before you post; it may help your communication skills considerably 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




------------------
 Behind every great man is his BUTT

My FitPit


----------



## Arnold (Aug 10, 2001)

Since all three of you failed to see my point, I guess I will re-close this thread.

------------------
_Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!_


----------



## TheSupremeBeing (Aug 10, 2001)

First off, I have no reason to respect any of you. Respect is something you earn, I figured with all of the real world experience you guys possess you would know this. I also find the hypocrisy on this board very funny, Charger saying I don't know how to train and he is a pudgy old hairy man? Bahahaha! I figured with all the shit he talks he would at least looks he works out.

Anyhow, to adress some criticisms (as if i give a shit)...

*"Maybe if we all just think really hard like TSB our muscles will grow. maybe if we spend all our time on the net posting our words of wisdom instead of in the gym sweeting we will get huge!"*

For all the time you spend in the gym "Sweeting", you don't even look like you workout, perhaps you're doing something wrong? Maybe if you took a little advice from me, Maki, ballast or others more knowledgable than you, you would make some progress.

*"TSB needs at least 100 grams of protein for brain recovery after his research of each post."*

Um, ya.

*"Okay, here's my two cents!
TSB does have some good advice and he is very good at posting scientific research."*

Don't confuse knowledge of how the body works with research. Research is unreliable because there are many problems associated with it, and many criticisms can be made discrediting said research. Exercise science (physiology, anatomy, endicronology, etc) is very reliable, in that 90% of it is universally accpeted (nothing is "proven", just accepeted"). The other 10% is basically some of the small details of how what mechanism works or what does more of what over what, and stuff. 

*"However, if bodybuilding, nutrition, supplements and weight training were as black and white as he tries to make it out to be, there would be no reason to have discussion boards. We could all read a book and get huge. But this is not the case. There is a lot of grey area in bodybuilding, and everybody responds differently to things.

I believe in using real world experience with a bit of science as guide lines. And beyond that you just have to find out what works for you. This can be facilitated by hearing about other peoples experience with supplements, routines, diets, etc."*

Genetic differences. Everything works for everyone, if it didn't nobody would grow without years of trial and error. This is where exercise science comes in, you don't waste years of trial and error seeking the secret routine to get big, you base your training around the processes of the body in order to maximize your results. The problem with a lot of you guys is that you don't know how to apply the exercise science, so you assume others do not as well. I happen to train just you like you and everyone else on this forum and I have applied every peice of info I've given on this forum with great results. In fact, if you're interested in how I train and what I do on a day to day basis in regards to weight training then you can read my journal posted on wannabebig:
http://64.21.5.158/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3059 

*"There is no ultimate book or person that has an answer for every individual when it comes to bodybuilding."*

Of course, we should listen to a lot of people and read a lot of books and information.

*"You must remember TSB is young, and with youth comes ignorance and a lack of real world life experience. I am sure he means well when he posts his scientific evidence for every question on this board, but he is too young to understand that only with age comes wisdom. 

As many of you know who are "older", this is a very typical teenage attitude. Remember the saying "when I was a teenager I knew everything!" 

So, what I'm trying to convey is that you should not let TSB or any other teenage "know it all" cause such animosity and anger."*"

I don't consider myself as a know-it-all, and I've never said I knew everything. _You_ say I know everything. I am, however, confident in what I say, and if you say something I think is incorrect you're damn right I'm going to call you out on it, and if you question what I say I will defend it. Does this mean I think I know it all? Nope.

*"Sorry Prince but I have to disagree. Regardless of someone's age they need to show respect for other members which TSB clearly doesn't, and frankly I am getting tired of it!
You should promote respect and teach this to our youth, not condone a brat cussing at us and trying to belittle us on every other post. What kind of example does that set for our other young members?
What has always set this forum apart from the others is the people! And if left alone, one rotten apple can root a whole barrel of apples.*"

I have no reason to respect you, you have not given me a reason to respect you. Personally, I don't feel respect is something you automatically recieve, do you respect Charles Manson? How about Timmothy McVeigh? 

*"C'mon Prince. At this point we're having fun with him. Check out the post "new exercise routine"."*

I'm greatly offended.

*"Also I do not think anyone at this point is arguing his knowledge, they are moreless harping on his communication skills. In addition, do not be fooled by age. Children have a better manners than TSB. I would certainly hope we can agree he does not pass himself off as one with much class. 

Enough said in my book"*

That, I can't argue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*"Yes, but given the number of times he's been kicked off just about every bb forum, you'd think he'd grow up a little. If TSB is able to comprehend the vast and often complicated information that he obviously reads, he should be capable of showing a little respect to another person's opinion."*

I've been kicked off musclemag (along with Paul Stagg, and just about every other knowledgable member they once had) and this forum. After being kicked off this forum I got a few requests to come back, and then i saw Scotty take a shot at me and misquote me so I posted, and got back involved. Most of what people have about me posting here is positive, but god forbid I refute your statement. 

*"TSB, you're knowledge is obviously welcome, not only here but at other forums as well. May I suggest a 10-second typing timeout before you post; it may help your communication skills considerably"*

With my knowledge comes my attitude, so deal wit it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, nice pic.

------------------
_Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers._


----------

