# Keto and Refeed



## jlagrassa333 (Oct 20, 2013)

iv done my research on this and have been on this diet for 2 weeks now. and iv been told several times to wait a month to do my first refeed so i can hop back into ketosis easier after each refeed. i just read one of the stickys about leptin and refeed and stated the exact opposite. I know right now im looking for any excuse to have some beloved carbs so i would like some other opinions on my diet and if i should wait to refeed or refeed weekly. here is my stats, diet, and weekly workout ( i will be starting a aas cycle in a week when my gear gets here so ill post that also ) 

24 years old
2 years consistent training
197 pounds
6'2
17 bf ? hard to calculate accurately 

meal1-3egg=210cal 18pro 15fat- 3bacon=240cal 15pro 21fat=450cal33pro 40fat 0carb
meal2- 4.5 ground chuck beef= 393cal21pro 34fat- 1/4cup cheese 100cal 6pro 9fat 1carb= 493cal27pro 43fat 1carb
meal3- 6.7oz beef chuck steak= 335cal31fat 31pro 0carb
meal4-4oz chicken= 184cal 4fat 36pro0carb- 2tbs naturalpb= 200cal 16fat 7 pro 6carb-1== 384cal20 fat 43pro 6carb
meal5- 3egg=210cal 18pro 15fat- 2.25sausage cooked= 225cal 20fat 12pro 1carb= 435cal35fat 30pro 1carb


1oz almonds= 162cal       6pro     14fat        6carbs




totals-cal2259     170pro          183fat          15carbs  (brocolli or mushrooms with meals) protein does not include 24g shake only on workout days


*Day 1: Upper Body Power Day*



Pulling Power Movement: Bent over or Pendlay rows
3 sets of 3-5 reps
Assistance Pulling movement: Weighted Pull ups
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Auxiliary Pulling movement: Rack chins
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Pressing Power Movement: Flat dumbbell presses
3 sets of 3-5 reps
Assistance pressing movement: Weighted dips
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Assistance pressing movement: Seated dumbbell shoulder presses
3 sets of 6-10 reps
Auxiliary curling movement: Cambered bar curls
3 sets of 6-10 reps
Auxiliary extension movement: Skull crushers
3 sets of 6-10 reps
*Day 2: Lower Body Power Day*



Pressing Power Movement: Squats
3 sets of 3-5 reps
Assistance pressing movement: Hack Squats
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Assistance extension movement: Leg extensions
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Assistance pulling movement: Stiff legged deadlifts
3 sets of 5-8 reps
Assistance pulling/curling movement: Glute ham raises or lying leg curls
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Auxiliary calf movement: Standing calf raise
3 sets of 6-10 reps
Auxiliary calf movement: Seated calf raise
2 sets of 6-10 reps
*Day 3: Rest*

*Day 4: Back and Shoulders Hypertrophy Day*



Pulling Power Exercise speed work: Bent over or Pendlay rows
6 sets of 3 reps with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
Hypertrophy pulling movement: Rack chins
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy pulling movement: Seated cable row
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy pulling movement: Dumbbell rows or shrugs bracing upper body against an incline bench
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy pulling movement: Close grip pulldowns
2 sets of 15-20 reps
Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Seated dumbbell presses
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Upright rows
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Side lateral raises with dumbbells or cables
3 sets of 12-20 reps
*Day 5: Lower Body Hypertrophy Day*



Lower Body Power Exercise speed work: Squats
6 sets of 3 reps with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
Hypertrophy pressing movement: Hack squats
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy pressing movement: Leg presses
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy extension movement: Leg extensions
3 sets of 15-20 reps
Hypertrophy pulling movement: Romanian deadlifts
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy curling movement: Lying leg curls
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy curling movement: Seated leg curls
2 sets of 15-20 reps
Hypertrophy calf movement: Donkey calf raises
4 sets of 10-15 reps
Hypertrophy calf movement: Seated calf raises
3 sets of 15-20 reps
*Day 6: Chest and Arms Hypertrophy Day*



Pressing Power Exercise speed work: Flat dumbbell presses
6 sets of 3 reps with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
Hypertrophy pressing movement: Incline dumbbell presses
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy pressing movement: Hammer strength chest press
3 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy fly movement: Incline cable flyes
2 sets of 15-20 reps
Hypertrophy curling exercise: Cambered bar preacher curls
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy curling exercise: Dumbbell concentration curls
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy curling exercise: Spider curls bracing upper body against an incline bench
2 sets of 15-20 reps
Hypertrophy extension exercise: Seated tricep extension with cambered bar
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy extension exercise: Cable pressdowns with rope attachment
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy extension exercise: Cable kickbacks
2 sets of 15-20 reps
*Day 7: Rest*



AAS CYCLE

WEEKS
1-12 600mg test-e
1-12 12.5mg aromasin 
PCT
14-17 nolva 40/40/20/20
13-15 2000 HCG first day 1000 every 3 days after


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## jlagrassa333 (Oct 21, 2013)

still need help with this


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## jlagrassa333 (Oct 21, 2013)

or should i consider carb cycling instead because of the intensity of workouts


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## OldSchoolLifter (Oct 22, 2013)

jlagrassa333 said:


> iv done my research on this and have been on this diet for 2 weeks now. and iv been told several times to wait a month to do my first refeed so i can hop back into ketosis easier after each refeed. i just read one of the stickys about leptin and refeed and stated the exact opposite. I know right now im looking for any excuse to have some beloved carbs so i would like some other opinions on my diet and if i should wait to refeed or refeed weekly. here is my stats, diet, and weekly workout ( i will be starting a aas cycle in a week when my gear gets here so ill post that also )
> 
> 24 years old
> 2 years consistent training
> ...



First..

Your total macros, and Cals don't add up... Ideally, depending on how aggressive you want to cut, which is why im assuming your going keto. I would keep it 2400-2200 per day. 

While Keto is all about increasing fat, and training your body to use fat as fuel, giving it bad fats Like Saturated Fats, and Trans Fat, is not ideal. Your diet, just even at first glance, Id guess at least 40-60g of the fat you are taking are trans and saturated. I would like that number to be much less...

Secondly Your Fat intake IMO even for KETO is to high, for your current composition.

I would be around 140-160G Fat and keep protein at around the 200 mark every day. 

SO

Fat - 150 - 1350cals
Protein 200 - 800cals
Carbs - >25 0-100cals ( Incidentals)

Total Cals - 2150 + 100 or less on the incidental carb intake.

During ketosis, you should be utilizing a good thermogenic, and trying to perform some form of fasted cardio, or workout. Generally I would recomend 10-13 days keto, with one low carb/medium fat/constant 200 protein day, followed by a high carb, low to no fat, 200g protein day. Then the very next day, Start keto with fasted cardio and or workout to quickly deplete glycogen, stores and enter ketosis faster. Entering in too many carbs to quickly after keto can be bad, having a low carb say under 60g followed by a high of say 250-300.


Last tip Ill give you, Fish is your friend when it comes to Keto, Especially Salmon. I see no fish in your diet. you can go on much long runs of keto, but For your goals and thikning more longterm CKD is more of what you want. As Ive outlined.


Makes sense? 

If you need more help, You do know how to reach me.

OSL


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## hypo_glycemic (Oct 22, 2013)

Too much thought being put into this plan. Keep it simple and do a gram of macros per body pound, cycle your carbs as needed and consume plenty of healthy fats with a ton of water


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## jlagrassa333 (Oct 22, 2013)

OldSchoolLifter said:


> First..
> 
> Your total macros, and Cals don't add up... Ideally, depending on how aggressive you want to cut, which is why im assuming your going keto. I would keep it 2400-2200 per day.
> 
> ...



wow bro you said you were not going to be detailed so i was not expecting this much from you. so im really curious of what your detailed work looks like. i started a thread 2 weeks ago on bodybuilding fourms and originally came up with 180 fat 192pro 39 carb and told me i was way off with macros. it seemed to low on protein to me. reason i havent been eating fish is because of this government shutdown bs my friend got sick and i read that there not inspecting the fish very well so china and local fish have had alot of bad fish. but ill definetly add fish to my diet and drop some of the sat fat .... i was having problems making meals with such high fat and keeping protein so low and those foods were the easiest to build macros with. im looking forward to workin with you soon as i get some extra money to throw your way. i love details and it seems that you do too


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## jlagrassa333 (Oct 22, 2013)

hypo_glycemic said:


> Too much thought being put into this plan. Keep it simple and do a gram of macros per body pound, cycle your carbs as needed and consume plenty of healthy fats with a ton of water



so 195 pro 195 fat that simple ?


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## hypo_glycemic (Oct 22, 2013)

...Cycle your carbs --or look at your body to determine if you need fast or slow burning glycogen depending how much fluid you're holding in the fascia. (spot between the skin and muscle tissue)


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## jlagrassa333 (Oct 24, 2013)

hypo_glycemic said:


> ...Cycle your carbs --or look at your body to determine if you need fast or slow burning glycogen depending how much fluid you're holding in the fascia. (spot between the skin and muscle tissue)



i drink the shit out of coffee lol

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## OldSchoolLifter (Oct 25, 2013)

During keto zero carb zero calories zero sugar monster is your friend. Also 5 hour energy helps! 

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## theCaptn' (Oct 25, 2013)

Mct oil or coconut oil - medium-chained triglycerides would highly benefit a keto diet


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## jlagrassa333 (Oct 26, 2013)

theCaptn' said:


> Mct oil or coconut oil - medium-chained triglycerides would highly benefit a keto diet



do i do shots of these on the weekend when im tryin to get loose . or just use to fill in macros throughout the week


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## micheal78 (Mar 4, 2014)

I've been keto for past two weeks and I am still so confuse about them ...lolz


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## theCaptn' (Mar 8, 2014)

jlagrassa333 said:


> do i do shots of these on the weekend when im tryin to get loose . or just use to fill in macros throughout the week



I use them to cook my food, and add to my coffee. 

Grass-fed beef + CNO + green veg.

Takes me about 2 weeks to be fully keto - breath and body ouder are tell tale signs. Refeed once a week for me, that's my preference ....


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## dave 236 (Mar 9, 2014)

You can also get keto strips at the pharmacy to be sure you're in ketosis.  But your breath will certainly let others know. 

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## flood (Apr 8, 2014)

Starting this myself. Easy@Home 10 Parameter (10SG) Urinalysis Reagent Test Strips, 50 Strips/Bottle , or if you want to be accurate get this with the KETO test strips; Precision Xtra Blood Glucose and Ketone Monitoring System . Protein is confusing, so many different theories - but I want one for bodybuilders not marathoners or zumba gals. I Got my MCT oil, chicken broth for sodium, multi minerals, and Isopure protein coming. How's it going *jlagrassa333*?


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## Gorm (Apr 9, 2014)

Fourth week for me and I believe I am Keto-adapting. Biggest indicator for me was that I was getting a massive pump again in the gym (which some critics say you can only get with a carb diet), I haven't had good pumps for the last couple of weeks as my metabolism was shifting. Also experiencing a hard-to-describe steady flow of energy; no ups and downs. When I do an exercise till failure in the gym it's truly because my muscle can't lift the weight anymore, not because I'm 'out of gas' or 'tired' -if that makes sense. It's like a new experience of true muscular fatigue. Also no DOMS! Again, there is almost a 'new' type of muscle soreness I feel now after a hard workout. No DOMS and I seem to recover much faster.

When I first tried a ketogenic diet it was hell because I was trying to refeed every week. I don't think I ever fully keto-adapted so I was just putting my brain and metabolism on a roller-coaster and probably hitting myself with a lot of cortisol. I had migraines and couldn't sleep. 
After watching some videos by Stephanie Person on youtube I took her advice and tried the keto diet again with no refeeds and getting plenty of salt, potassium, and magnesium. Also she strongly recommends, at least when you are starting and getting your body keto-adapted, you should go for 70-75% fat, 5% (net) carbs, and only ~20% protein. Even protein causes changes in insulin and a portion of it is converted to glucose. So until you train your body to run off ketones, don't eat too much (or so much at once) protein or you'll just be training your body in gluconeogenesis (break down protein to convert to glucose). This is recommended by keto-scientists Stephen Phinney, Jeff Vokel, and Peter Attia as well. I'm also taking the advice to carefully watch my cortisol while keto-adapting, no hard cardio and I'm taking my time in the gym with mostly heavy lifts.

MCT Oil should be your number one supplement. This shit is an awesome preworkout and I hear if you do refeed, taking it will put you back into ketosis much faster. 
Coconut oil is a close second.
 I'm also using Isopure and just using a single scoop with a raw egg in almond milk for my post workout shake (~32 grams of protein).
I'm eating an avacado, 3 cups of spinach, and snacking on almonds everyday to get my potassium and some fiber.
Salt my food with Himalayan pink salt and take a magnesium pill before I sleep (also using a standard multivitamin and fish oil regularly).
-No migraines, no crashes, no problems like before and I'm feeling awesome.

I don't think I will refeed until I really feel the need to, and even then I think I will only do a single carb meal, not a whole day or two.
To get to the point of all this, I'm dropping body fat like crazy. I've literally gone from 40" waist to 36" in the past month. (I'm 34, 6'1", weighed 245-50 before I started this). Still think I've got a couple inches to lose from my waist. My abs are starting to come in for the first time in my life (got like a 'box' no midriff or horizontal separation yet).


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