# GrapeSeed Oil



## stfuandliftbtch (Jan 5, 2011)

My mg to ml ratio is to high and the injections are to painful..so i have decided to cut it with some grapeseed oil.

my question is, is all grapeseed oil the same?

Do i have to order it offline, or can i just walk into a grocery store or gnc and buy 100% Grapeseed Oil?

What is the difference if any?


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## Crank (Jan 5, 2011)

most super markets carry it. i get filtered grapeseed.

you can get it cheap online though

and either way u better sterilize it in the oven before pinning it!


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## stronger4ever (Jan 5, 2011)

You should do like some guys in here and use motor oil. Makes you huge.


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## ROID (Jan 5, 2011)

I've used grapeseed oil from the grocery store. I filter the final product with .2um filter. I don't bake anything. If you heat the oil or not, if you buy it unfiltered you need to filter it.

I'm not a chemist but I've made my own gear several times without a problem. Doesn't mean my way is the best way though.


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## Crank (Jan 5, 2011)

grapeseed isnt made sterile... so its best to make sure the oil is sterile homie....

and i buy filtered grapeseed so i dont need filters everytime


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## ROID (Jan 5, 2011)

Crank said:


> grapeseed isnt made sterile... so its best to make sure the oil is sterile homie....
> 
> and i buy filtered grapeseed so i dont need filters everytime



interesting point of view.

If its filtered then it is sterile.


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## stfuandliftbtch (Jan 5, 2011)

do they sell sterile grapeseed at the grocery store?


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## The Prototype (Jan 5, 2011)

You can get it at GNC or most pharmacies carry it so I'd imagine grocery store would have it too. I guess it depends in how big your grocery store's vitamin section is. Buying supplements on eBay is really cheap. I got Liv-52 for $3 a bottle.


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## stfuandliftbtch (Jan 5, 2011)

hmm for sure.. i was looking at grapeseed oil..but it was like 100% grapeseed oil lotion..i was like uhmm wtf


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## stfuandliftbtch (Jan 5, 2011)

btw, i dont have an extra vile on hand, is it ok to draw gear into syringe, and then draw grapeseed oil straight from the container? 

seems kinda sketch but u never no...


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## ROID (Jan 5, 2011)

stfuandliftbtch said:


> btw, i dont have an extra vile on hand, is it ok to draw gear into syringe, and then draw grapeseed oil straight from the container?
> 
> seems kinda sketch but u never no...



CT explained a way to cut gear. I believe it is just as simple as mixing them into the syringe together. Just make sure the grapeseed oil is filtered/sterile.

Finding a concentration that is tolerable should be the only hard part. Why inject more oil than is necessary.


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## CG (Jan 5, 2011)

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk


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## stfuandliftbtch (Jan 5, 2011)

this may be a dumb question.. but can you use any kinda of oil..such as olive oil or Tea Tree oil


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## bmw (Jan 6, 2011)

no bro.  I wouldn't use an aromatic oil like olive and certainly not tea tree.  Aromatic oils will have a tendancy to get rancid.

Trader Joes here in cali carries the grapeseed oil.  If you have a persian market near you they should carry it by the gallons. 

Like others have said though, you'd better at least filter it.  The oils used by pharma companies are all sterile USP oils.  That would be ideal, but I doubt you'll look into that.


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## stfuandliftbtch (Jan 6, 2011)

thanks bro...just ordered some sterile grapeseed of the internet..so i should be good to go. just did a left glute injection 2 hours ago and i can already feel the pain coming!! fuck!!

i reallyyyy hope this grape oil works wonders!!


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## bmw (Jan 6, 2011)

it should help brother.


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## ROID (Jan 6, 2011)

stfuandliftbtch said:


> thanks bro...just ordered some sterile grapeseed of the internet..so i should be good to go. just did a left glute injection 2 hours ago and i can already feel the pain coming!! fuck!!
> 
> i reallyyyy hope this grape oil works wonders!!



What are you pinning ?


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## CG (Jan 6, 2011)

There once was a man from jamaica..... ok shit nothing rhymes with that SMD used to extol the greatness thatis PMSO or pure mustard seed oil..

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk


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## GMO (Jan 6, 2011)

stronger4ever said:


> You should do like some guys in here and use motor oil. Makes you huge.


Only Castrol GTX, though.  It is sterile.


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## gsxrguy (Jan 6, 2011)

Odd....the one time I experienced ur symptoms was with test E in grapeseed oil....


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## Grozny (Jan 6, 2011)

stfuandliftbtch said:


> My mg to ml ratio is to high and the injections are to painful..so i have decided to cut it with some grapeseed oil.
> 
> my question is, is all grapeseed oil the same?
> 
> ...



use GrapeSeed Oil USP Grade filtered. Then youre good to go bro and have no worries, heres a picture of 5 gallon GSO


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## XYZ (Jan 6, 2011)

ROID said:


> interesting point of view.
> 
> If its filtered then it is sterile.


 

Buying filtered is WAY more expensive than just buying the stuff off the grocery shelf.  

I wouldn't trust the fact that it says sterile on it.  When I filter it I KNOW it's sterile.

Too many people try and cut too many corners.  Do it right or don't do it at all.

Just my opinion.


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## stfuandliftbtch (Jan 6, 2011)

ROID said:


> What are you pinning ?





syntrop hybrid

400mgs/ml     (250TestE & 150mgsTrenE)    2X pW


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## Beejis60 (Jan 6, 2011)

ROID said:


> I've used grapeseed oil from the grocery store. I filter the final product with .2um filter. I don't bake anything. If you heat the oil or not, if you buy it unfiltered you need to filter it.
> 
> I'm not a chemist but I've made my own gear several times without a problem. Doesn't mean my way is the best way though.



.2um takes FOREVER to filter; .45um are just as good, especially if you're not heating the oil, which you should though.  I also suggest the 33mm millipore filters as they're easier to depress with respect to the 20mm whatman filters.



ROID said:


> interesting point of view.
> 
> If its filtered then it is sterile.



Ya, but I don't trust it.



stfuandliftbtch said:


> do they sell sterile grapeseed at the grocery store?



no



CT said:


> Buying filtered is WAY more expensive than just buying the stuff off the grocery shelf.
> 
> I wouldn't trust the fact that it says sterile on it.  When I filter it I KNOW it's sterile.



Strong this.  

Last thought: I only use cottonseed oil as the good bros suggest that it apparently hurts less.... IDK of any truth to it, but I stick with it and have had zero problems.  I only homebrew.


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## XYZ (Jan 6, 2011)

stfuandliftbtch said:


> syntrop hybrid
> 
> 400mgs/ml (250TestE & 150mgsTrenE)  2X pW


 
That's the problem right there.  WAY TOO MUCH hormone per ml of oil.

You might even have to add 2ml's of grapeseed oil to 1ml of the gear just to stop the pain.

High content blend are one of the WORST ideas to ever come along.  If you want to drop one of the compunds.....you can't.  If it hurts......you're screwed.

Not to mention that 99.9% of MOST blends are under dosed.  

You might save a few bucks but is it worth all of the BS?  Now you have to spend more money just to make the gear managable.

There is a "standard" mg per ml for most all gear for a reason.

***Shakes head in disgust***

Honestly though I hope that you're able to get this to work, it just sounds like the ultimate clusterfu$k.


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## ROID (Jan 6, 2011)

CT said:


> Buying filtered is WAY more expensive than just buying the stuff off the grocery shelf.
> 
> I wouldn't trust the fact that it says sterile on it.  When I filter it I KNOW it's sterile.
> 
> ...



You're absolutely correct.

What I was trying to point out is that baking oil in the oven is no where near as efficient as filtering. I don't think baking anything is a good idea. maybe I'm wrong.


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## Beejis60 (Jan 6, 2011)

ROID said:


> You're absolutely correct.
> 
> What I was trying to point out is that baking oil in the oven is no where near as efficient as filtering. I don't think baking anything is a good idea. maybe I'm wrong.



You bake it to kill any bacteria as it helps make the BA mobile.
And you should ALWAYS filter before putting into a sterile environment


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## ROID (Jan 6, 2011)

If I filter the oil myself what is not to trust ?

I think I have been misunderstood.

Buy grapeseed oil at the store. filter it yourself and the oil will be sterile No need to bake.

Am I mistaken ?


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## Beejis60 (Jan 6, 2011)

ROID said:


> If I filter the oil myself what is not to trust ?
> 
> I think I have been misunderstood.
> 
> ...



You're right other than the baking part; the heat kills anything alive in the sterile environment that may have gotten in.  275 for 45mins = win.
BA is also used as an antiseptic.  BB is your cosolvent.


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## ROID (Jan 6, 2011)

Beejis60 said:


> You bake it to kill any bacteria as it helps make the BA mobile.
> And you should ALWAYS filter before putting into a sterile environment



ok. I just disagree. The filter catches the bacteria. I think it breaks the hormone if you bake it, especially in an oven.


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## ROID (Jan 6, 2011)

Beejis60 said:


> .2um takes FOREVER to filter; .45um are just as good, especially if you're not heating the oil, which you should though.  .



It takes forever if you are using s syringe filter. and no .45um are not just as good.


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## Beejis60 (Jan 6, 2011)

ROID said:


> ok. I just disagree. The filter catches the bacteria. I think it breaks the hormone if you bake it, especially in an oven.



It does not "break" the hormone, lol.  The melting point of steroids are right around that temperature, you're not gonna decompose it.



ROID said:


> It takes forever if you are using s syringe filter. and no .45um are not just as good.



Yes, I meant syringe filter.... sorry for the error of clarification.

And you should only use a .2um filter if making BA water or water solutions for peptides.


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## XYZ (Jan 6, 2011)

Beejis60 said:


> *It does not "break" the hormone, lol. The melting point of steroids are right around that temperature, you're not gonna decompose it.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Yep.

You can use a .2 but it takes WAY TOO long.  .45 is what most use.


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## ROID (Jan 6, 2011)

Beejis60 said:


> It does not "break" the hormone, lol.  The melting point of steroids are right around that temperature, you're not gonna decompose it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



to each his own


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## XYZ (Jan 6, 2011)

ROID said:


> You're absolutely correct.
> 
> What I was trying to point out is that baking oil in the oven is no where near as efficient as filtering. I don't think baking anything is a good idea. maybe I'm wrong.


 

Me, personally......I would filter it and bake it, BUT if you trust your source than this becomes a non issue.


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## gsxrguy (Jan 6, 2011)

CT said:


> That's the problem right there. WAY TOO MUCH hormone per ml of oil.
> 
> You might even have to add 2ml's of grapeseed oil to 1ml of the gear just to stop the pain.
> 
> ...


 COMPLETELY agree! Ive never used hybrid but I did use some cyp 300 even though I had heard reports it gave muscle knots and pain and I just thought I was tougher than those guys cuz Id used T400 before with no issues. Fuckin 5 shots into the cyp(glute) I woke up one mornig day after injection and had a raised knot that ran from the injection site(glute) all the way down across my fuckin thigh! Whole right side of my body felt like it had been hit with a Mac truck and I had a fever from hell. Try explaining that one to your woman who doesnt know youre using aas


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## ROID (Jan 6, 2011)

CT said:


> Me, personally......I would filter it and bake it, BUT if you trust your source than this becomes a non issue.



I just take the fact that the average size of a bacteria is anywhere from .2 to .4um. It depends on where you look  but .2um to .4 seem to be common

Why I don't think heat is a good idea: If a prescription medication degrades (breaksdown) if exposed to heat/light/humidty I just think a hormone will do the same. Nothing to do with the boiling point of the steroid.

Maybe there is an actual chemist somewhere on the board.


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## Beejis60 (Jan 6, 2011)

ROID said:


> I just take the fact that the average size of a bacteria is anywhere from .2 to .4um. It depends on where you look  but .2um to .4 seem to be common
> 
> Why I don't think heat is a good idea: If a prescription medication degrades (breaksdown) if exposed to heat/light/humidty I just think a hormone will do the same. Nothing to do with the boiling point of the steroid.
> 
> Maybe there is an actual chemist somewhere on the board.



Fwiw, most bacteria are .5um to 5um... there are however, some that are lower than .5um; to my investigation, the smallest is around .3um, however, that's why you heat the solution.
Virues otoh, go from .01um to .3um.  Another reason to heat.
And if you don't believe me about 'breaking' the steroid, I would like you to know I am a chemist and I have worked with steroids, chemically speaking, in the past.... not just home brewing.


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## ROID (Jan 6, 2011)

Beejis60 said:


> Fwiw, most bacteria are .5um to 5um... there are however, some that are lower than .5um; to my investigation, the smallest is around .3um, however, that's why you heat the solution.
> Virues otoh, go from .01um to .3um.  Another reason to heat.
> And if you don't believe me about 'breaking' the steroid, I would like you to know I am a chemist and I have worked with steroids, chemically speaking, in the past.... not just home brewing.[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## Beejis60 (Jan 6, 2011)

ROID said:


> well then since you are a chemist. If there were heavy metals in the finished product , how can you remove them ?
> 
> If I bought powders, how could i get rid of the impurities ?



Your powders should be USP grade and I wouldn't buy anything other than that, which should contain no metals.  And how are metals getting in the powder in the first place?  They're not being mined like sodium chloride and shit like that.
I'm not environmental and/or analytical chemist, but if you have them, my best guess would be that they're metal salts so if you dissolve the steroid in either methanol or acetone and precipitate with water, filter with a coarse frit or coarse filter paper (paper filters are MUCH slower than frits with water solutions), that should wash away all water solubles, aka metal salts.  Drying could be a pain in the ass though, depending on the steroid and its ester; you MAY need to throw it in something like a dessicator or vacuum dissicator with a nice dessicant (phosphorus pentoxide is excellent), then re-recrystallize it in something like ethyl acetate in case of any phosphoric acid being adsorbed onto the the surface as it's slightly volatile under vacuum conditions.
But again, you should not have any metals.  If there are other impurities, such as other organics or the free hormone that was just never esterified, then a simple recyrstallization would be fine.


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## ROID (Jan 6, 2011)

Beejis60 said:


> Your powders should be USP grade and I wouldn't buy anything other than that, which should contain no metals.  And how are metals getting in the powder in the first place?  They're not being mined like sodium chloride and shit like that.
> I'm not environmental and/or analytical chemist, but if you have them, my best guess would be that they're metal salts so if you dissolve the steroid in either methanol or acetone and precipitate with water, filter with a coarse frit or coarse filter paper (paper filters are MUCH slower than frits with water solutions), that should wash away all water solubles, aka metal salts.  Drying could be a pain in the ass though, depending on the steroid and its ester; you MAY need to throw it in something like a dessicator or vacuum dissicator with a nice dessicant (phosphorus pentoxide is excellent), then re-recrystallize it in something like ethyl acetate in case of any phosphoric acid being adsorbed onto the the surface as it's slightly volatile under vacuum conditions.
> But again, you should not have any metals.  If there are other impurities, such as other organics or the free hormone that was just never esterified, then a simple recyrstallization would be fine.



Getting USP powders would be impossible for me. No matter what any UG says the majority don't get USP powders either.



Heavy metals: lead , arsenic, ...I'm not sure how many there are.  I know they are not mined. But when you make a hormone  in a facility not meant to manufacture them then this things get mixed in with the hormone powder.

Once I dissolve the powder with methanol, precipitate with water, filter again and dry will the methanol be gone as well ?

When you precipitate with water, is that not the same as recrystallization ?


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## stfuandliftbtch (Jan 6, 2011)

CT said:


> That's the problem right there.  WAY TOO MUCH hormone per ml of oil.
> 
> You might even have to add 2ml's of grapeseed oil to 1ml of the gear just to stop the pain.
> 
> ...




damn! thats a shitload of grape oil!!!

So i have a 30ml vial on the way and some grapeseed oil along with some other unrelevant things.

When i get it i should have 16mls of gear left. How much grape seed do you guys suggest I add to the gear...there will be about 14ml left of free room in the vial.

Thanks! 

p.s. Left glute shot last night hurts, but not even half as bad as the last 2 shots..hopefully there will be no more pain to come.


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## gsxrguy (Jan 6, 2011)

CT said:


> That's the problem right there. WAY TOO MUCH hormone per ml of oil.
> 
> You might even have to add 2ml's of grapeseed oil to 1ml of the gear just to stop the pain.
> 
> ...


AGREE. I used some cyp 300 that was rumored to be causing muscle knots cuz of too high a dose I used anyway did fine till shot 5 and woke up next morning with a knot from injection site(glute) all the way across my thigh. My whole right side of body felt like id been beaten with a ballbat and I had a decent fever. Went away after a copuple days . discontinued use immediately.


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## gsxrguy (Jan 6, 2011)

Sorry Im an idiot I double posted my bad....


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## Cal0777 (Jan 6, 2011)

Hope it works out for you man.


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## Hendog (Jan 6, 2011)

How much pain are we talking about here?  I get some site soreness and just deal with it.


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## ZECH (Jan 6, 2011)

If companies don't sterilze the containers the GS oil is in, it is not sterile. You need to at least filter it. Baking does not kill the hormone, as most I have seen have mp's much higher than 300 degrees. It will however darken your product. Myself and Pirate were mods on Conversionboard...wish we had the ton of info we had on homebrewing......it was awesome.


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## stfuandliftbtch (Jan 6, 2011)

Hendog said:


> How much pain are we talking about here?  I get some site soreness and just deal with it.





hahah this isnt pain you can deal with...its to the point where my delts physically could not move upward from the side.


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## XYZ (Jan 7, 2011)

stfuandliftbtch said:


> damn! thats a shitload of grape oil!!!
> 
> So i have a 30ml vial on the way and some grapeseed oil along with some other unrelevant things.
> 
> ...


 
If you cut it one to one and it still hurts you're going to have to keep adding more sterile oil until you get it to become manageable.  I would assume for every 1ml of gear you have right now you're going to need to add 2ml of grapseed oil to it.  You wiould then be shooting 1ml of gear with 2ml's of filtered oil to get the same results, but 3ml's is A LOT of gear to inject into one mucsle so you're probably going to have to do two injections.

This is why blend are worthless in my opinion.


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## stfuandliftbtch (Jan 7, 2011)

CT said:


> If you cut it one to one and it still hurts you're going to have to keep adding more sterile oil until you get it to become manageable.  I would assume for every 1ml of gear you have right now you're going to need to add 2ml of grapseed oil to it.  You wiould then be shooting 1ml of gear with 2ml's of filtered oil to get the same results, but 3ml's is A LOT of gear to inject into one mucsle so you're probably going to have to do two injections.
> 
> This is why blend are worthless in my opinion.




ok thanks..seems like a lot bcuz that would be cutting the gear to about 150mgs/ml..which seems more than tolerable...seems like if i cut it ml/ml and have it 200mgs/ml it seems like it would be enough to tolerate...

but im no expert with grapeseed so im sure you are right.


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## XYZ (Jan 7, 2011)

stfuandliftbtch said:


> ok thanks..seems like a lot bcuz that would be cutting the gear to about 150mgs/ml..which seems more than tolerable...seems like if i cut it ml/ml and have it 200mgs/ml it seems like it would be enough to tolerate...
> 
> but im no expert with grapeseed so im sure you are right.


 
No, no no.  You need to add 1ml of gear to 2ml's of oil just to decrease the pain, so in essence you'd be shooting a total of 3mls but only 1ml would be gear and the other 2ml's would help dilute the gear so it's not painful anymore.  Make sense?


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## stfuandliftbtch (Jan 7, 2011)

CT said:


> No, no no.  You need to add 1ml of gear to 2ml's of oil just to decrease the pain, so in essence you'd be shooting a total of 3mls but only 1ml would be gear and the other 2ml's would help dilute the gear so it's not painful anymore.  Make sense?




yes i understand..i was saying it seems like a lot of grape oil to dilute the gear, therefore turning the gear into about 150mgs of gear/mL. but you no better than me


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## ROID (Jan 7, 2011)

stfuandliftbtch said:


> yes i understand..i was saying it seems like a lot of grape oil to dilute the gear, therefore turning the gear into about 150mgs of gear/mL. but you no better than me



damn man. I hate you have to go to all this trouble. Almost ruins a cycle


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## MaxBiceps (Jan 7, 2011)

He's got the hormone so he might as well do it. I wouldn't toss it, I'd cut it too. I cut my Testoviron (the painful one with prop and a ton of BA) with a 100mg/ml solution of Test C every shot. Sometimes with EQ. Sometimes with 200 mg/ml solution test C from trt. 1:1 is fine with this, but it's only 250mg/ml. Try 1:1, then adjust from there. Either way, It's gotta be better than what you're doing. lol


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## ZECH (Jan 7, 2011)

Honestly, if the pain is that bad, I would ditch the gear and find some more I can deal with. Shooting twice a week with that pain = a long cycle if you don't quit before then.


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## Beejis60 (Jan 7, 2011)

ROID said:


> Getting USP powders would be impossible for me. No matter what any UG says the majority don't get USP powders either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Unless you have or can get a heavy metal analysis and/or elemental analysis, I think you will be very hard-pressed to find any metals in there; no one uses arsenic in organic chemistry and lead use is VERY minute these days, especially in large- to industrial-scale chemical plants.
Yes; methanol is much more volatile than water so that will be the first thing to go.
Some people call it a recrystallization, but it's actually called crashing because the preciptate is crashing outta solution from that technique.  In my experience, that will not get rid of as much impurities as the following 'real' recyrstallization technique nor the vapor-diffusion method.  The 'real' recrystallization is dissolving a solid in a boiling solvent at minimal volume (enough till the solid is 100% dissolved), then removing from the heat and letting it cool to room temp, then all solids formed after fully cooling should be filtered and washed with volumes of ice-cold solvent used to recrystallize; this cooling process can take hours, depending on the solvent.  Some people MAY throw their recrystallization vessel in a chemical freezer overnight (after it's fully cooled to room temp) to help facilitate more cyrstal formation as you never get 100% mass recovery, however this is only suitable with proper solvents ethanol, methanol, ethyl acetate, toluene to name a few.  Water and benzene, for example, would be bad choices for freeze-inducing because it obviously freezes at a higher temp than the aforementioned solvents.


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## stfuandliftbtch (Jan 9, 2011)

the grapeseed oil IS filtered..do i still need to filter it myself?

heat it up then filter it?

Can i just draw .5gear out with syringe, then put the needle straight into the grape oil and draw it out


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