# I really need advice - newbie- sust 250



## jeb (Dec 24, 2003)

what's going on guys?

hey I wanted to get some advice from you all experienced men with roids.  I'm just started taking a 8wk cycle of sust 250 each week, this is my first time taking roids i did my reaserch though, I'm going for my 5th week, i've gained 8lbs (i started at 187lbs now i'm 195-i'm 26) so far is this normal or i should take more sus and inject myself with 500mg of sus for the last 3 wks remaining? how many pounds do you think i would gain at the end of my cycle? after i finish my cycle i'm going to wait 3 weeks and then start taking my nolva right? should i stop working out when i finish my cycle to recover or I can continue taking my glutamine and whey protein with my muscle milk.

can you please reply when ever you get a chance. 

thanks,
jeb


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## prolangtum (Dec 24, 2003)

You would have been better served to run 500mg per week all the way through,

No one knows how much you will gain off of a cycle, comes down to diet and training.

Wait 2.5 weeks to start PCT of Nolva

Continue working out, just lower the volume.


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## Mudge (Dec 24, 2003)

Gains come primarily from food, what you are looking for is positive nitrogen retention increase from the food, so if you eat the food the gains will come.

I would have run 500mg a week, but I have run 250 for my first cycle. I kept about 17 pounds.

I'd start the nolva at 2 weeks, with such a low dose especially.

Dont stop working out at all, no way. I remember a guy that came here once wanting to run juice for 2 months and then not workout for 3 months at a time 

I lose strength even after a week out of the gym, on or off gear.


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## jeb (Dec 24, 2003)

ok since i'm going for the 5th injection on sunday, should i go 

with 500? till finish my cycle? I bought deca 50 mg by organon, 

they come in a form of a glass injection, anyways should i stack it 

with the sus250 for my last 3 inj(3wks) or i just wait and make it 

500mg  until i finish my cycle? and then after I finish with my 

how long should i wait until stating another cycle?


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## prolangtum (Dec 24, 2003)

Wait on the deca, not only will you need at least 300-400mgs of it per week to make it worthwhile, it should be ran at least 8-10 weeks, 3 weeks is not enough time.


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## Mudge (Dec 24, 2003)

Yep, dont play with deca right now. As for running more test, you can if you want, just dont cut short your recovery time.

What does your post cycle plan look like?


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## jeb (Dec 24, 2003)

well the only thing that is available for me is nolva 20mg, i've been looking for clomid but i can't find it, where can i get some clomid through the net with out any problems.? all i know that most of the people prefer clomid better than nolva.


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## Mudge (Dec 24, 2003)

Stick with nolva man, clomid sucks, the sides just bug the hell out of me and I feel much better on nolvadex all the way around.


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## jeb (Dec 24, 2003)

ok that's what i'm going to do, now what would you recommend 

me to do finish with 500 for the 3 remaning weeks or to stay with 

the 250?


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## Mudge (Dec 24, 2003)

Only 3 weeks? Its up to you, 3 weeks wont do much honestly IMO and will extend your recovery time by at least say 2 weeks, simply by having more gear in your blood as well as increased shutdown over 250mg.


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## jeb (Dec 24, 2003)

what would you do instead of me?


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## jeb (Dec 24, 2003)

wait until cycle ends then go throught the recovery cycle then start another cycle at 500mg, well since I'm stating to take roids what would you recomend? or for my second cycle?


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## Mudge (Dec 24, 2003)

For a first cycle I would have run 10 weeks, I am guessing you bought amps though. I personally hate amps and only use them with HCG because that is how it comes.

500 should be fine next cycle, with or without dbol first 4-6 weeks.


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## Just a guy (Dec 24, 2003)

i think 12 weeks would be acceptable.... so then he could up the dose for 7 weeks...  i had to do something similar


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## Mudge (Dec 24, 2003)

Staying on for the rest of his life is acceptable too, for some. Its all relative based on what he wants, as far as recouperation time etc.


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## jeb (Dec 28, 2003)

so i sould run and stay 250 for 10 weeks?? is that what you mean? and then recovery then run a second cycle of 8 weeks of 500 what else you all suggest? yes they com in form of a seringe ready to use of 250.


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## Power Rabbit (Dec 28, 2003)

your getting sust in ready to inject syrnges/packages?? Do you live in mexico? didnt think there was too much rediject stuff in the states...just cause to bring it over from mexico would be a pain do to how much space(hideable mind you for smuggeling purposes) a single cycle of redijects wold take up.


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## Mudge (Dec 28, 2003)

Redijects yep. There are people that resell them in the US, my first source was bringing stuff from Mexico and shipping from within the US. I hear borders are tightening up though, and that Mexico is going to make gear use illegal in 6 months or so? I really dont know that it would impact sales much though.

I'm not really a believer in 8 week cycles, but maybe they will work well for you. If I was running heavy orals with it, then I could see it being doable.


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## jeb (Dec 28, 2003)

Deletion by request


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## Mudge (Dec 28, 2003)

20g wow, I forgot to change pins once and I kept pushing and pushing with a 20g and it would not go in (ass shot). Finally I look and go good lord, thats a nail.

I pull with 20 and shoot with 25.


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## jeb (Dec 28, 2003)

i know dude, it's better with the 25g nice and slow.  do you think i should just extend it to 10 weeks or just finish the 8 then recover then do a good cycle with 500?


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## Mudge (Dec 28, 2003)

I would never do less than 10 in the first place, but thats JMO.


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## Power Rabbit (Dec 28, 2003)

It does seem like 8 weeks is abit short cause it takes alil bit for the gear to kick in....If I were doin a 8 week Id front load it with something more fast actng... like running prop the first 3 weeks to give a cycle of cyp to jump in...


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## Mudge (Dec 28, 2003)

Its the shortest cycle pretty much recommended at all, sustanon started working for me in week 3. For a brief time I was putting on 1/8th on my arms every day (HST).


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## BUSTINOUT (Dec 28, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> 20g wow, I forgot to change pins once and I kept pushing and pushing with a 20g and it would not go in (ass shot). Finally I look and go good lord, thats a nail.
> 
> I pull with 20 and shoot with 25.



LOL!  I harpooned myself in the thigh with one of those things.  DAMN!


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## jeb (Dec 29, 2003)

i still haven't feel the so called "kick" i have noticed strength but 

not that much though, what do you all mean by saying the "kick" 

is it power to lift or when you start gaining muscle? i'm buying 

dbol for stack it for my next cycle. i've heard here in the forums 

that i would feel it like in the 6 shot (week) what do you all  

think???


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## Mudge (Dec 29, 2003)

Kick is a bad term, you aren't going to gain 5 pounds in a day or anything like that so "kick" is not litterally going to be a kick.

However, starting in week 3 I was putting 1/8th inch on my arms during my first cycle DAILY with HST (program) and sustanon. Likewise once it started working I was putting on 10 pounds on my bench weekly, which after 3 weeks left me about 7 weeks like this, ending up as 65 pounds more on my bench.


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## jeb (Dec 29, 2003)

what is the HST program?


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## Mudge (Dec 29, 2003)

Hypertrophy Specific Training, I posted on it about July or so last year in Training if you search it.

Search subject "HST yay or nay"


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## jeb (Dec 29, 2003)

thanks for all the info bro, YOU'RE AWSOME!!!! i'll look for that.  LATEZ!!!


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## Power Rabbit (Dec 29, 2003)

ya kick is a bad word....my bad


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## Mudge (Dec 29, 2003)

Nah we all say kick in, but its not like you suddenly put 20 pounds on your bench overnight or 10 pounds in a day, but you sure as hell should gain WAY faster on a first cycle than naturally.

After 6 months or so of natural training, I dont know anyone who puts 10 pounds on thier bench weekly, make sense right? Now that is what I call kick, but its not like you put 50 on in a week. Still this puts me (us) so far above natural that I feel freaking like a god among men.

I see guys cranking out reps with 115 on the bench, and I load up 3 plates. I see guys doing shrugs with 135 pounds, and I load up 3 plates for 20 easy reps


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## Power Rabbit (Dec 30, 2003)

heh good call bro


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## jeb (Dec 30, 2003)

do you all know if i'm taking propecia to prevent hair loss does 

prevent that to gain muscle while on cycle?????


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## Power Rabbit (Dec 30, 2003)

alot of people take propecia while on cycle. I think if it did anything..it would be minimal


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## Mudge (Dec 30, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by jeb *_
> do you all know if i'm taking propecia to prevent hair loss does
> 
> prevent that to gain muscle while on cycle?????



Did someone just tell you to take it and you didn't know why?

I doubt it affects gains, dont see how.


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## prolangtum (Dec 30, 2003)

blocking too much DHT can be detrimental, just like blocking too much estrogen can be


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## Mudge (Dec 30, 2003)

Absorutery.


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## themadmexican25 (Jan 4, 2004)

if you are going to use deca why not use NORANDREN 200


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## Mudge (Jan 4, 2004)

Deca is deca.


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## themadmexican25 (Jan 4, 2004)

true, true


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## jeb (Jan 5, 2004)

Mudge, ok after i finish this cycle of 8 weeks which I'm deprerate 

to finish it to start the new one, my PCT i'm going to start it at 2.5 

days at a low dose which is 10mg ed in the first week then the 

second 20ed????? how long do i have to wait to start the other 

cycle?ok so....

i'm doing a 12 week cycle of sus 500/w and dbol 20mg for 6 

weeks, is that a decent cycle???? i was doing 250 for 8 by itself,

next week i'll get my last shot.


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## Power Rabbit (Jan 5, 2004)

time on=time off is a rule I like....


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## jeb (Jan 5, 2004)

what do you mean? to stay 8 weeks off? but still working out right and eating right? everything the same but off cycle right?


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## Mudge (Jan 5, 2004)

Wait 2-3 weeks before you begin PCT, you have to wait for the half life of the drug to lower it enough to even begin being able to recouperate.

Yes you still lift during your time off, it just means no HPTA suppressive drugs.


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## jeb (Jan 5, 2004)

that's what i'm going to do then, so... after i start my PCT

how many weeks do i wait to start my new cycle? I feel like my 

cycle that i'm going to finish was a shitty cycle though, I'm kind of 

dissapointed, but i've got from 187 to 198 11lbs so far i still have 

two more weeks which is this week and next week on juice, but i'll

see if i can get like 5 more lbs because i'm pretty sure i have a lot 

of water.


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## jeb (Jan 5, 2004)

what do you all think?


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## Mudge (Jan 5, 2004)

8-12 weeks or more as you feel neccessary for complete recouperation.


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## jeb (Jan 5, 2004)

what is it feel to recouperate, or how would i feel on my post cycle

fatige?


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## Mudge (Jan 5, 2004)

I go by libido, if you get a blood test though try to recall how you feel all around and that will help future cycles.


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## jeb (Jan 6, 2004)

Mudge can you please delete one of the comments that i put here, (12-28-2003 01:46 PM)     thanks.


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## jeb (Jan 6, 2004)

comment 19


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## jeb (Jan 6, 2004)

i mean 20 the one that I mentioned mexico, it's a long paragraph.


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## Mudge (Jan 6, 2004)

Post #19, got it.


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## jeb (Jan 6, 2004)

thanks i appreciate it bro.


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## jeb (Jan 14, 2004)

Mudge how is it going dude?

hey this is my last week of my cycle, I still haven't decided if I 

should get the deca at 400 cycle with dbol of the sust250 at 500 

with dbol, which one of this cycles have you seen the best 

results ?  hey another thing Mudge you know what happened to 

dude? well for drinking to much protein shakes I started to shit 

pellets dude it got to the point that i got my ass sore and a little 

bit of blood , i couldn't  

even wipe my ass comfortable but i had to anyways, so i stop 

eating like meat and the shakes for now, but i will start my diet 

again in a couple of days, my buddy told me that happened to 

him as well but just to put fiber on my diet to digest everything smooth.


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## Mudge (Jan 14, 2004)

Meat doesn't affect me much other than possible stomach discomfort, but I dont seem to need much fiber in my diet, a little oatmeal does me just fine. I can just about live off meat and nothing else (in terms of going to the bathroom).

I would much rather do sust/dbol than deca/dbol.


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## jeb (Jan 14, 2004)

I love meat, but i think the shakes makes you sometimes feel like 

kind of constipated.  I heard that deca shuts you down big time

(can't get it up), anyhow how many weeks should i do this cycle? 

12 is a decent cycle? i was thinking running d-bol 25-30mg/ed for 

4 to 6wk.


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## Mudge (Jan 14, 2004)

I know of people that get gassy or diahrea from shakes, I have never heard of constipation. Of all the genetic goodness that I dont have, I can eat or drink just about anything without problems.

First cycle? 8-12 wks is common, dbol for 4-6 is cool.

Get more fiber in your diet if you are constipated, and/or add olive oil to those shakes, that will loosen you right up so be carefull with it.


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## themadmexican25 (Jan 14, 2004)

I take glycerlean and its pretty good


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## Mudge (Jan 14, 2004)

No sources should be posted period, I dont know what you are talking about. I dont suggest ordering from websites though, if they get taken down and have a nice big customer list with your name on it, you may get visited or set up, or that may even be 'proof' alone right there.

If you need to check though send me a secure email, mudge@cyber-rights.net - not something from Hotmail or AOL or some other service that will rat you out.


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## camarosuper6 (Jan 14, 2004)

Mudge judging from your pic, your a pretty large guy.  Mind if i ask what kind of program do you use, as far as weight training?  Or are you a guy who mixes it up quite often?


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## Mudge (Jan 15, 2004)

Basic movements, almost all freeweights.

1) Chest Calves
2) Back
3) Delts Traps Neck
4) Arms Abs
5) Quads Hams

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=1950&thumb=1


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## jeb (Jan 15, 2004)

ok i'll check with you from a secure mail, thanks.


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## jeb (Jan 19, 2004)

Mudge I have nolva and clomid for my post cycle, how should i take it for my post, dose per/day and week?????? can you give me some feedback? i've heard a lot of opinions some say take both some say take clomid, what's the right way dude to take it??


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## jeb (Jan 19, 2004)

I was taking low dose which it was the sus250 for 8 wks, Man i really want start my other cycle i can't wait.


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## Mudge (Jan 19, 2004)

You can take both if you want, 20mg nolvadex = 50mg clomid so if your PCT calls for 100mg clomid then take one of each, 20N and 50C.

I would run PCT for 3 weeks minimum.


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## jeb (Jan 19, 2004)

3 weeks minimum, ok, starting three weeks after my last inj. right?


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## jeb (Jan 19, 2004)

on my next cycle i will be running 500mg sus/wk for 10-12wk, do 

you recommend to shoot the 500mg in one shot? or split it? i 

don't really care as long as i do it right.  I altenate my butt 

anyways, do you think i should start getting my shots in my 

thights? as long i don't walk like limping you know what i mean?

which is your favorite spot to shoot yourself?


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## Mudge (Jan 19, 2004)

Well, you really should rotate injection sites, I have 8 sites that I am willing to stick myself in. Twice a week would be nice because of the prop in the sustanon (when I run prop I shoot ED), but it may not make much difference in reality.

2-3 weeks after your last shot is when PCT should begin, with deca in there make it 3. In other words you can't begin recovery without waiting for the drug levels to die down, so half life takes care of tapering for you.

Go first in the cheeks, if the gear doesn't bother you there then the thigh is ok to try out. I have made the mistake of putting high mg/ml gear in my quads and it was a big mistake, since then I have not done thighs at all its not my favorite spot to hit at all pain or not. 

I like

ass
delts
triceps
traps
pecs

I have not done triceps for awhile because of blood and nerves.


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## jeb (Jan 20, 2004)

I just sent you a message to your cyber-rights. c/s when you hit 

delts traps and pecs, is it the same thing as when you shoot your 

cheeks? because you know how sometimes you get a bit of sore

like for 2 days or so in your cheeks, is it the same?


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## Mudge (Jan 20, 2004)

I just ran 3cc into my left delt last night with ONLY 1/2" 27g pin and I have absolutely zero pain, no lie - if I raise my arm I can just barely feel that I even took a shot. This is underground stuff, superb quality, it is not bathtub gear like some people cry about. I have used mex gear and this stuff blows it away in terms of "pain" and I have run the QV enanthate jug without any real problems but you do feel it.

One thing to consider is site rotation besides the quality of the gear (or flat out simply BA content, mine is .9%). If you are stabbing yourself in the same spot, especially with high volume injections, if you feel pain upon injection I would say this is likely you shooting right into scar tissue that has not yet healed. I have had this happen in my cheeks before when doing E4D injections so this is 8 days between each cheek shot. I gave the rest of my body a break and started using cheeks which I had not used in a good long while, and yet it feels much better in my delt which is almost somewhat funny, so it is my belief that it was the break that my body needed.

If the gear is higher in BA content though ("quality" you could say) and it hurts in the rear, then I am wary of putting it in my quads but will willingly put it almost anywhere else as long as it wont be worked out within 2-3 days, otherwise it will hurt my workout. Higher mg/ml stuff usually tends to hurt more, the stuff I am using now is 300mg/ml.


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## jeb (Jan 20, 2004)

ohh ok, then BA (quality) has to do with the pain???  How do can i find out the BA content (%) ?? it has to do with the brand?


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## jeb (Jan 20, 2004)

what is BA mean though?


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## Mudge (Jan 20, 2004)

BA = Benzyl Alcohol
BB = Benzyl Benzoate

It may or may not say on your vial what the BA content is, mine is .9% BA, some mix in BB to reduce pain which reduces the requirement for BB.


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## jeb (Jan 21, 2004)

oh I see, the ones that i used was by Oganon which i've heard 

according to the research that i've done that is a good co. and i 

think it says on the box, i'll check it out and see what it says.

did you get my e-mail to c r .com Mudge?


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## Mudge (Jan 21, 2004)

Organon is supposedly the world largest steroid manufacturer. As for email I dont know, unless you sent it from a secure account I deleted it.

www.cyber-rights.net
www.hushmail.com
www.ziplip.com
www.securenym.net
www.keptprivate.com


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## jeb (Jan 21, 2004)

ok i'll get a secure mail.  thanks.  hey did you hear about Bush 

last night he said something about "crack down the industry of 

steroids", my buddy told me, i'll try to surf and find it, it must be 

intresting.


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## Mudge (Jan 21, 2004)

Oh yes, I am aware of his speech...



> "To help children make right choices, they need good examples. Athletics play such an important role in our society, but, unfortunately, some in professional sports are not setting much of an example. The use of performance-enhancing drugs like steroids in baseball, football, and other sports is dangerous, and it sends the wrong message that there are shortcuts to accomplishment, and that performance is more important than character. So tonight I call on team owners, union representatives, coaches, and players to take the lead, to send the right signal, to get tough, and to get rid of steroids now"


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## Power Rabbit (Jan 21, 2004)

Oganon amps are also the most faked


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## Power Rabbit (Jan 21, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> Oh yes, I am aware of his speech...




means nothing....he just wanted to use something that was in the headlines(in this case ephedra) in his speech so he can help make himself look like he is on top of things..been done for years...think last year it was violent video games


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## jeb (Jan 21, 2004)

I hope I didn't get the fake ones dude!!! well they look real, 

where i bought it is one of the biggest pharmacies in mexico,

well.... you never know right?


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## jeb (Jan 21, 2004)

what do you take between cycles?? is there anything that i can 

take between cycles while in post cycle that it would not

affect your recouperation phase???


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## Mudge (Jan 21, 2004)

hGH $$$$
IGF-1 LR3 $$$
Insulin $
Clenbuterol $


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## jeb (Jan 21, 2004)

I have access to clen, what are the dosages and for how long 

can i take it dude? have you used it before?


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## Mudge (Jan 21, 2004)

Never used it, enough people get sides from it that I may not. It is more for caloric burning than actual anti-catabolism, but again I have not used it so who knows.



> Athletes usually take 5-7 tablets, 100-140 mcg per day For women 80-100 mcg/day are usually sufficient, It is important that the athlete begin by taking only one tablet on the first day and then increasing the dosage by one tablet each of the following days until the desired maximum dosage is reached. The compound is usually taken over a period of 8-10 weeks. Since Clenbuterol is not a hormone compound it has no side effects typical of anabolic steroids. For this reason it is also liked by women. Possible side effects of Clenbuterol include restlessness, palpitations, tremor (involuntary trembling of fingers), headache, increased perspiration, insomnia, possible muscle spasms, increased blood pressure, and nausea. Note that these side effects are of a temporary nature and usually subside after 8-10 days


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## jeb (Jan 21, 2004)

what do you recomend to take, what do you usually take 

between cycles?   I sent you a message through hushmail.com

dude i hope you can help me out Mudge.


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## Mudge (Jan 21, 2004)

I take nolvadex between cycles, I dont bridge. IGF-1 LR3 seems tempting on or off cycle, slin possibly but I'd have to brush up on it (to avoid dying), hGH perhaps sometime in the future - basically these 3 are either expensive or can kill you.

As for clen supposedly it is hard on the kidneys, I have been tempted to run it during cutting, but have only used T3 for that purpose. I was tempted to run clen because it is supposedly anti-catabolic but most everyone says that is entirely blown out of proportion.

By the way, most people run clen 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, not 8-10, not without precautions (Taurine comes to mind?)


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## jeb (Jan 22, 2004)

mudge did you get my secured e-mail dude? i sent it yesterday, i just needed some info, if you can.


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## jeb (Jan 22, 2004)

i sent it from auto70001husmail.com


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## Mudge (Jan 22, 2004)

I have nothing from such an address dude? mudge@cyber-rights.net


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## jeb (Jan 23, 2004)

my bad, i send it .com   instead of .net. hahahah shit sorry about 

that man.  Muge have you ever used the yohimburn? do you 

know where can i buy it? i've heard good thing about it, the 

reason why i'm asking is because i want to use it for my face 

because i got a bit of bloaded on my cheecks with the cycle 

that did.


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## Mudge (Jan 23, 2004)

Never used it, if you have bloat its from fat or water.


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## jeb (Jan 23, 2004)

both, since i did my cycle i noticed that i lost fat i don't know how 

much but i can tell on my stomach area big time but my face still

look like a little puffy cheeks which i know is the water and little 

fat.  as for the water i know i'm going to loose it with my nolva 

next week but the fat? i'm planning to do a cutting cycle but first

i'm going to do like 2-3 more bulk & mass cycles then i will do my 

cutting next year.


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## jeb (Jan 29, 2004)

Mudge what gauge do you use for your traps and delts??

I'm planing to order my pins for my next cycle, i was using 23g last

cycle.


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## Mudge (Jan 29, 2004)

I used 23g for my first cycle but have used 25/27 since, usually 25g since 27g only comes in .5"  I have 1.5" and 1" for the 25g, although I have a spacer at home to make it 5/8" when I dont feel like going deep, and I'm still lean enough that I think its ok for most spots (not the ass of course).


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## jeb (Jan 29, 2004)

i bet you barely feel it right with the 25 and 27? 

did you felt a difference between the 23 and 25g??


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## Mudge (Jan 29, 2004)

27 is nothing, that you just about dont feel. 25 is very nice, slides right in, the 27g is short and really not terribly convenient in hard to reach spots because you do need some good pressure to push through it. Terumo has a stronger base than BD so I do better with them.

Yes there is a difference with 23/25, just as with 25/27, but 23 is ok. I just like as little trauma as possible, especially since my body loves to bleed. When doing ED injects also, it gets pretty bad with scar tissue after awhile.


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## jeb (Jan 29, 2004)

that's cool so I think i'm going for the 25g then, 23g is a little mild 

to push the oil so i'm guessing 27 you have to push hard but slow

no?


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## Mudge (Jan 29, 2004)

Takes me about a minute to push through a 27g which is what I like anyway, 25g is pretty easy to deal with, 23g is so easy to push through that one could easily push "too fast" with it so there is no reason to use it IMO.

I use 20 to pull and 25 to push, the 27g is nice though for delts and traps and .5" seems fine to me for those two spots. Make sure to push nice and deep, unless your bodyfat is relatively high you should be fine, especially with low volume shots.

Plenty of people thought a 27g would be impossible, when you look at it you would almost think that it was.


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## jeb (Jan 29, 2004)

when i tried my first one without any help, dude, it took me about 

30min but i did it, like the third time it was easy, sometimes it hurt

a bit but not enough to bother me through my training, but some

time i would get bumps (butt) i don't know if it was because of 

the BA or because i would do it wrong.  But i want to try with my 

delts and traps so I can start getting used to it (delts and traps) 

because i want to try EOD with prop after i finish this next cycle.

and traps


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## Mudge (Jan 29, 2004)

More people go with 23s than 25, but I find 25 just fine.


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## jeb (Feb 2, 2004)

Mudge what was your best cycle that you could say WOW i gained ____ lbs (so many pounds) it was awsome????

What do you think?, is it better like to do the 500sust/wk or change it to 500 test enat. ?? instead of dealing with short and long esters (blend)


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## Power Rabbit (Feb 2, 2004)

itll be cheaper to not use sust...and easier to keep stable blood levels


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## Mudge (Feb 2, 2004)

My first cycle was my best. I used the see-food diet method, I saw food, I ate it. Right now though to gain weight I have to eat 5000-6000 calories a day which is a bit more laborous, I should be around 252 or possibly higher, haven't weighed myself since friday. Your gains come from your diet + the drugs, not the drugs alone.

I would use enanthate.


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## jeb (Feb 2, 2004)

in your own opinion, which one leaves you with more sore butt sus on en.?? i think sus.

ok 500/wk of enanthate divided in two shots per week?? like power rabit said to keep stable blood levels?????


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## Mudge (Feb 2, 2004)

Sustanon, easily. Shoot deep will also help with pain, there is enough fat on the ass that a 1.5" needle is best, I have used 1" and it works ok, but I still like to go deep into the muscle, also better to avoid an abcess.

500 a week is fine in two shots, or E4D if you can make it work on paper for you, if its 250mg/ml though then just pick two days to do it monday/thursday or whatever.


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## jeb (Feb 2, 2004)

the deeper the better right? i remember that you told me that one time you you have made the mistake of putting high mg/ml gear in your quads, what happened did you hit a nerve???


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## Mudge (Feb 2, 2004)

Reaction to high BA content probably, because it happened twice. I just dont take well to quad shots unless its low mg/ml, but still, since I rely on my legs for walking I would rather not shoot them because they take enough abuse as it is. I just am not a quad shot lover despite thier popularity.


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## jeb (Feb 3, 2004)

i've heard Mudge that if you boil your amp lets say sus250 it'll loose (evaporate) BA content and that is painless, or bake it. Have you ever heard of that bro?


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## Mudge (Feb 3, 2004)

BA has a boiling point of 450ºF, you will damage your substance long before BA goes away.


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## jeb (Feb 3, 2004)

have you ever tried EQ with test? if so how was it?


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## Mudge (Feb 3, 2004)

I would not use it on your first cycle, either test by itself or test + dbol, dont get all fancy footed, you can gain 20-30 easily if you eat right.


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## jeb (Feb 3, 2004)

I was just wondering, maybe in the future i would use EQ with something else, right now I'm just focused in mass bulking cycles though, I started my post this past sun I'm currently taking 20mg nolva and 50mg of clomid/day for the next 3 wks but i've noticed a bit of acne no biggie, but if i continue to get more acne i'm going to discontinue and just stick to my nova at high doses.


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## Mudge (Feb 3, 2004)

EQ is something you try, you either like it or you dont. Good for long cycles only.


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## jeb (Feb 13, 2004)

Mudge what's up dude? hey how do i use the HCG Post cycle?, I've heard that is pretty good for shrinkage of the testicles, I would like to give it a try after I finish my 500mg/wk enathate cycle, i'm doing it for 10wks, right now i'm in my 3rd week PCT. 
so how do I use it dude for my PCT? do you like it?


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## Power Rabbit (Feb 13, 2004)

you use it in the window between your cycle ending and pct starting...it will cause suppression and shouldnt be used during pct


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## Mudge (Feb 13, 2004)

Dont fix your balls after they are broken, avoid the problem altogether, and as PW said its not suggested to be used post cycle. If you absolutely have to then start using it after the last shot, for up to 2-3 weeks, and then start your PCT immediately.


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## jeb (Feb 23, 2004)

Mudge i just finished my 3rd week post cycle, i still have the clomid and nolva left for about another week, do you think i should do another week?  i lost 4 pounds total, i kept 14. next cycle i would eat much more, i think it was ok for my first cycle. now i know what to do to gain more muscle weight.


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