# Cruising vs. PCT



## Livebig14 (Jun 20, 2011)

Hey guys.  I have been reading up on this a lot lately.  What are your opinions on cruising vs. proper PCT?  I am 24 years old, and would like to get my pro card.  Would the chances of that happening be any better/worse if I just cruised and blasted cycles?  I know that when you just cruise you keep more of your gains than you would if you ran a proper PCT, but I have also heard that your receptors will not clear properly if you cruise.  Any truth to this?  Not looking to get flamed for this guys.   What do you think?


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Jun 21, 2011)

Well...... you may be setting yourself up for TRT if you do a blast cruise.


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## Livebig14 (Jun 21, 2011)

chronicelite said:


> Well...... you may be setting yourself up for TRT if you do a blast cruise.


yeah thats true.  But what do you think is the better route to go if you want to try to go pro?


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## BigBlackGuy (Jun 21, 2011)

Receptors being cleaned... that theory just doesn't hold up, imo, as there is no evidence to support it.

If you cruise, yes, you'll retain your gains.  But you'll also run the risk of losing your natural testosterone production for good if you blast/cruise too long.


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## Glycomann (Jun 21, 2011)

I don't mean to be a prick here first off.  A lot of young guys get 1 or 2 cycles under their belt and decide their life goal is to become a professional bodybuilder. I have no idea of what your potential is but I have seen a  lot of guys with really not close to the genetic gifts it truly takes to go pro. I can pretty much guarantee you that someone with those gifts can walk into a local level show natural and win.  These pro athletes are no different than gifted athletes in any other sport.  Tons of guys think they can go pro NFL but when you actually see one of these athletes up close and performing you will realize that, for instance, an NFL linebacker is not a normal human being and never was a normal human being.  Same with those guys that go pro in bodybuilding. No drug cycle will ever make up for genetics.  Maybe you are gifted. I don't know.  But if you think maybe you have what it takes then get out there and compete a few times going through the whole prep and testing the waters before you decide to go to the hilt. Pros go thorough a lot of sacrifice even though they are genetically gifted.  It's not the most comfortable way to go through life. Walking around at 5'8" at 300 lbs full of juice with astronomical BP huffing and puffing walking up 2 flights of stairs can't be comfortable. In the end is it really worth it to be a pro when only the top 20 or so make a decent living at all?

I advise just weigh it out.

My 2 cents,

G


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## Anabolic5150 (Jun 21, 2011)

Glycomann said it perfect (I owe you reps when I'm home).

Only a genetically gifted few can make it to the professional level in our sport. More often then not, it's just not in the cards. PCT my friend, blast and cruise later when the natural T levels have dropped. Just my advice.


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Jun 24, 2011)

Livebig14 said:


> yeah thats true.  But what do you think is the better route to go if you want to try to go pro?



If you want to go pro. Blast cruise my brother


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## Livebig14 (Jun 24, 2011)

chronicelite said:


> If you want to go pro. Blast cruise my brother


thanks man thats probably what ill end up doing but still not 100%


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Jun 24, 2011)

About your signature. 

*There is no such thing as overtraining, only undereating*

Not true man. Your muscles maybe. But your joints and ligaments need to be looked after. These don't recover at the rate of your muscles. So be nice to them and give them some time off every now and then.


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## Livebig14 (Jun 24, 2011)

chronicelite said:


> About your signature.
> 
> *There is no such thing as overtraining, only undereating*
> 
> Not true man. Your muscles maybe. But your joints and ligaments need to be looked after. These don't recover at the rate of your muscles. So be nice to them and give them some time off every now and then.


yeah I understand what your saying.  Besides your joints though between gear and an insane amount of food I do believe it is difficult to overtrain.  Also it depends on the particular person as well.  But definatley possible and you do have to take care of your joints like your saying


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## JerBear1980 (Jun 28, 2011)

Livebig14 said:


> thanks man thats probably what ill end up doing but still not 100%


 

Your going to. Not trying to judge, but from the sounds of it, your just wanting someone to tell you that you should.

Anyone thats responded with reason, you've dismissed.

A few questions that I hope you'll be honest with yourself answering. Don't answer here, just something I hope you consider:

1)At 24, how can you be possibly sure you want to do this for the rest of your life? Are you ready to inject at least once a week, for the rest of your life?

2)Are you in the tops ranks of the amateur class?

3)Have you competed regularly, to the point you know where you stand?

4)Do you have a steady job that can support this? (cause it will take a quite a while to make any real money even if you get your procard)

5)Most importantly - Do you believe in yourself 100%, no doubts?





Not trying to flame at all, please don't take it like that. I mean for all I know you could be the next Dorian Yates. But step back and look at yourself from outside of your own box.


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## brundel (Jun 28, 2011)

Before you sign yourself up for lifelong HRT, maybe you should enter a show and see how you do.
Better yet....
Post up a few pics of yourself here.
If you look like pro material we will tell you but I assure you you should be prepared to be let down.
I have a buddy of mine, 24 years old, 265lbs lean. He...MAY have what it takes. Yah hes big but shape and symmetry are important as well. He is running TONS of shit.

Please post a few pics this way....I can better asses your potential.
Otherwise Ill assume your just looking for people to tell you its the right thing to do.
Most likely it is not.


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## brundel (Jun 28, 2011)

By the way...I have been blasting....no cruise for 6 months+ 
I have been on AAS for many years and at least 3 with no OFF period.
Im not even close to ever even thinking Im gonna be a pro.

Meet a few of em....take a couple pics of you standing next to even a decent amateur.
Or like I said...take some pics and let us see em.
This is to help you.

I wake up every so often and just think..."fuk ...every muscle is sore from injections and scar tissue" I dont know if I can keep this up. But I do it because now I cannot go back. I have to do at least 1-2 injections weekly. When I inject is sounds like Im pushing the neeedle through a can of pringles because there is so much scar tissue at the injection sites.

Perhaps reconsider.


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## Livebig14 (Jun 28, 2011)

thanks guys for the responses on this thread.  I have decided not to cruise im just going to run a proper PCT and see how it goes as far as retaining gains.  possibly in the future cruising could be an option for me, but my natural testosterone should recover well with me being only 24.  thanks again guys


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## brundel (Jun 28, 2011)

Good call brother.


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## Mr.BIG (Jun 29, 2011)

brundel said:


> Good call brother.


 
Agreed!

Being 41, I am on TRT, not going to say I don't like it cause I do, BUT, if I could go back to 24 years of age, without a doubt I would not want to be pinning myself at least twice a week every week for the rest of my life! Not to mention, your natty test will be doing so much more for you!


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## JerBear1980 (Jun 29, 2011)

brundel said:


> good call brother.


 

x3


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## Livebig14 (Jun 29, 2011)

yeah and like you guys said if your gonna even try and go pro ( let alone actually have what it takes)  you have to devote your entire life to it.  Not sure if I would want trt forever.  thanks again guys


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## castlehill (Aug 29, 2011)

Anabolic5150 said:


> Glycomann said it perfect (I owe you reps when I'm home).
> 
> blast and cruise later when the natural T levels have dropped. Just my advice.



I have been thinking about the cruise, 47 now and on TRT which is a gel that doesn't do much for me.  I was doing 125mg test E on top of my gel when I had my levels last checked and was at 750.  Having my levels checked again this week after being off cycle and just on the gel for a month.  I am curious to see how low it is, I am definitely tired more and loosing lean muscle and gaining bf fast.

I have done 2 cycles and start my next in November but if my levels are low I am going to just restart the 125mg a week and cruise between cycles because I felt great on it and it is probably keeps my levels where they should be anyways.

At this point it is a lifelong thing I guess; I have had my kids and snipped the jewels when that was done so no worries there. I want to keep up my energy, sex drive and lean muscle.


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## vannesb (Sep 1, 2011)

Livebig14 said:


> Hey guys. I have been reading up on this a lot lately. What are your opinions on cruising vs. proper PCT? I am 24 years old, and would like to get my pro card. Would the chances of that happening be any better/worse if I just cruised and blasted cycles? I know that when you just cruise you keep more of your gains than you would if you ran a proper PCT, but I have also heard that your receptors will not clear properly if you cruise. Any truth to this? Not looking to get flamed for this guys. What do you think?


 
At 24 you would be crazy to cruise.  I do, but I am twice your age! Your body produces enough naturaly. Good PCT and you keep gains! My 2 cents!


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## Livebig14 (Sep 1, 2011)

vannesb said:


> At 24 you would be crazy to cruise.  I do, but I am twice your age! Your body produces enough naturaly. Good PCT and you keep gains! My 2 cents!


I wouldnt say its crazy.  There are a lot of guys that do it.  Its a lifelong decision.  As of now im PCT'ing and waiting for my next cycle.  Im going to continue to ponder it though with each successive cycle but will always have the stuff do run a proper PCT with


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## vannesb (Sep 2, 2011)

Livebig14 said:


> I wouldnt say its crazy. There are a lot of guys that do it. Its a lifelong decision. As of now im PCT'ing and waiting for my next cycle. Im going to continue to ponder it though with each successive cycle but will always have the stuff do run a proper PCT with


 
Maybe Crazy is a strong word, your right it a choice you have to make, and it is a commentment that will last. For me I cruise, but I have low T so while I am cruising my levels are where a 24 year old is.  So not sure where the benifits are except you can do more cycles


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## Livebig14 (Sep 2, 2011)

benefits would be that I can retain gains much easier and you dont have to deal with the mind games of being "off".  Disadvantages have been discussed.  Ill post again on this thread if I ever decide to cruise.


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## hypno (Sep 2, 2011)

I had not considered cruzin till I read this thread. Lots of great info and opinions thanks all. Now that I am over 50 maybe it is something that would work out for me.


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## Livebig14 (Sep 2, 2011)

Go get bloodwork done and see where your levels are.  If they are low enough you may just get it prescribed by your doc


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## hypno (Sep 2, 2011)

Thank you, I will do that!


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## castlehill (Sep 2, 2011)

Livebig14 said:


> Go get bloodwork done and see where your levels are.  If they are low enough you may just get it prescribed by your doc



I am interested to see what my blood levels are, I have been just on the gel for the last 30 days.  I had it tested today.  

To me a cruise is be basically keeping my levels in the high normal range, that's all 125mg a week would do.  The gel just doesn't do enough for me but this doc isn't prescribing the injectable 

Some have mentioned they cruise at 250mg a week which is probably higher than I want to go.  I keep my gains at 125mg a week and it keeps my test level at 750, well I still use the gel too.  Can't let it go to waste lol.


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## carmineb (Sep 3, 2011)

There are risks I guess to both sides.....  you could cruise with hcg therapy but that also might cause a permamnent shut down of the LH......  the chain has to be cut somewhere.

I am wondering if there is a form wehre you cycle on and off without totally going off and use a form of pct while taking the lower dosages.


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## Livebig14 (Sep 3, 2011)

PCT while taking any dosages will not do anything because you will still be shut down


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## carmineb (Sep 4, 2011)

not if you are taking hcg....  

the idea I was throwing out was if you go with a lower dosage, would a pct assist in preventing too much estrogen imbalance from happening so you dont get the issues associated while the hcg maintains testicular size, so it becomes more of an estrogen issue, doesnt it?  (just asking).

some people use a blast and cruise wehre they never really ever go off but alternate high and low cycles


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## hypno (Sep 4, 2011)

carmineb said:


> not if you are taking hcg....
> 
> the idea I was throwing out was if you go with a lower dosage, would a pct assist in preventing too much estrogen imbalance from happening so you dont get the issues associated while the hcg maintains testicular size, so it becomes more of an estrogen issue, doesnt it?  (just asking).
> 
> some people use a blast and cruise wehre they never really ever go off but alternate high and low cycles



I don't really have an answer for this but I think it's a good question. I think the "pct" though would be more of, as you say, estrogen control or "ecdc" "estrogen control during cruz". Something like aromasin or adex along with the hcg to try keeping normal hormone levels. 

I hope someone who knows more than me adds to this. The input so far is very enlightening thanks all!


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## Livebig14 (Sep 4, 2011)

No matter what dosage of AAS your running you should pretty much always be running an AI (aromatase inhibitor)  This prevents the test from converting to estrogen.  HCG maintains testicular size but your still shut down, it just makes you testes start producing natural test FASTER when you do come off.  More experienced guys can chime in here too.


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## bigdtrain (Sep 4, 2011)

this guy isnt even on here to listen to what people have to say, he is just listening to what he wants to hear. first of all man, have to seen a proper pro cycle?? have you ever heard about doses they use
most bbers are drug addicts, they abuse high amounts of diuretics, insulin. to get anywher in pro bbing you need to be on all of this. you will not be a top pro without insulin in high doses. you think a man under 5'10'' can walk around contest shape over 220 without insulin, no my friend. you have a lot to learn of the world of pro bbing


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## bigdtrain (Sep 4, 2011)

pro bodybuilding = drug addict
remember this my friend


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## Livebig14 (Sep 5, 2011)

bigdtrain said:


> this guy isnt even on here to listen to what people have to say, he is just listening to what he wants to hear. first of all man, have to seen a proper pro cycle?? have you ever heard about doses they use
> most bbers are drug addicts, they abuse high amounts of diuretics, insulin. to get anywher in pro bbing you need to be on all of this. you will not be a top pro without insulin in high doses. you think a man under 5'10'' can walk around contest shape over 220 without insulin, no my friend. you have a lot to learn of the world of pro bbing


No ive never seen a pro cycle why dont you outline one for everyone?  What level of competition do you compete at big guy?  Unless you have a pro card or are friends with the pros then its all speculation.  No shit the pros use a lot of gear and sacrifice their body?  Really?  I had no idea you had to do that to come on stage at 5'10 260 at 4% bodyfat.  I thought they just used creatine and Cell Tech?  And quit bitching about insulin use.  Your the guy who says Phil Heath has a shitty physique and uses too much insulin right?  Hes at a much higher level then you, so you should be taking tips not hating.


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## carmineb (Sep 5, 2011)

Livebig14 said:


> No matter what dosage of AAS your running you should pretty much always be running an AI (aromatase inhibitor) This prevents the test from converting to estrogen. HCG maintains testicular size but your still shut down, it just makes you testes start producing natural test FASTER when you do come off. More experienced guys can chime in here too.


 

I agree....  I am going to do my first cycle with test e and using aromasin and hcg on cycle and nolva and clomid pct.....  I know my estrogen is naturally out of balance being bigger boned, plus being 50 also throws it out of wack.

I know as some have said to be a pro bber, they take a shit load of drugs, insuline, etc...  but I bet that some people on this board can go into  some of those model physique type f competitions, you dont have to be huge, just ripped and very symmetrical.


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## bigdtrain (Sep 5, 2011)

i am not hatting on anyone, and not you. so dont think i am coming at you as i am NOT. i am here to give you my advice and help. 
i just want to make sure you have the right advice and you seemed to dismiss other coments other than the ones you wanted to hear. if you really want to go down this path, then cruising is the best option for you, and in reality its the ONLY option for you. i am not against all this drug use. i am trying to obtain a pro card myself. and i use all this on myself aswell(no recreational drugs however). bigdtrain speaks truth and only truth. i know pros and have heard about certain people and there habits. for example, branch warren is in very dangerous circumstances right now, he uses high levels of pain killers, diuretics, and insulin. you can be healthy on aas and gh, and can be healthy rest of life on that, but when you start using high amounts of insulin, diuretics and painkillers you take life in own hands and your a walking time bomb. again phil health may be at top, but bbing is lots of politics aswell, he is not a good bber



Livebig14 said:


> No ive never seen a pro cycle why dont you outline one for everyone? What level of competition do you compete at big guy? Unless you have a pro card or are friends with the pros then its all speculation. No shit the pros use a lot of gear and sacrifice their body? Really? I had no idea you had to do that to come on stage at 5'10 260 at 4% bodyfat. I thought they just used creatine and Cell Tech? And quit bitching about insulin use. Your the guy who says Phil Heath has a shitty physique and uses too much insulin right? Hes at a much higher level then you, so you should be taking tips not hating.


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## bigdtrain (Sep 5, 2011)

if you guys want ill post proper pro cycle


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## Livebig14 (Sep 5, 2011)

bigdtrain said:


> i am not hatting on anyone, and not you. so dont think i am coming at you as i am NOT. i am here to give you my advice and help.
> i just want to make sure you have the right advice and you seemed to dismiss other coments other than the ones you wanted to hear. if you really want to go down this path, then cruising is the best option for you, and in reality its the ONLY option for you. i am not against all this drug use. i am trying to obtain a pro card myself. and i use all this on myself aswell(no recreational drugs however). bigdtrain speaks truth and only truth. i know pros and have heard about certain people and there habits. for example, branch warren is in very dangerous circumstances right now, he uses high levels of pain killers, diuretics, and insulin. you can be healthy on aas and gh, and can be healthy rest of life on that, but when you start using high amounts of insulin, diuretics and painkillers you take life in own hands and your a walking time bomb. again phil health may be at top, but bbing is lots of politics aswell, he is not a good bber


Yeah man makes sense and your right a lot of B.B.ing is politics


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## Livebig14 (Sep 5, 2011)

bigdtrain said:


> if you guys want ill post proper pro cycle


Yes please do I would like to see a typical offseason cycle as well as a pre contest.  thanks


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## ANIMALHAUS (Sep 6, 2011)

bigdtrain said:


> if you guys want ill post proper pro cycle


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## vannesb (Sep 7, 2011)

hypno said:


> I had not considered cruzin till I read this thread. Lots of great info and opinions thanks all. Now that I am over 50 maybe it is something that would work out for me.


 Yea get your doc to check your levels.  Mine precribes 400mg per week!My levels were at 386.  As long as I keep them under 1,000 when I get blood work done he is happy!  i always know when i am going to give it so I cut way back for a month.


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## hypno (Sep 7, 2011)

bigdtrain said:


> if you guys want ill post proper pro cycle



I would be very interested and grateful for this. Personally I have to admit I have no clue what it would be and would like to learn.


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## FrankJames (Oct 31, 2011)

i have gone to a national clinic site. They give prescription injectables, (test cyp), without a thought. i wanted a paper to travel with, ( i fly a lot for work), and i got that, but it is not an inexpensive route.  

When i see what they get vs. what i can do with raws and home brew, it is almost obscene.


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## BFHammer (Feb 23, 2012)

vannesb said:


> Yea get your doc to check your levels.  Mine precribes 400mg per week!My levels were at 386.  As long as I keep them under 1,000 when I get blood work done he is happy!  i always know when i am going to give it so I cut way back for a month.


Damn.  Mine is at 100 and he's only prescribed 200 every other week.


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## charley (Feb 24, 2012)

Yo Livebig........almost all women want children[alot of men too].....you may lose some value to a women if you can't make a 'little rugrat'...if you catch my drift......so keep it in mind .......
..........charley


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## Livebig14 (Feb 25, 2012)

charley said:


> Yo Livebig........almost all women want children[alot of men too].....you may lose some value to a women if you can't make a 'little rugrat'...if you catch my drift......so keep it in mind .......
> ..........charley


thanks brotha.  I have decided to PCT after each cycle.  Solid advice


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## oldschoolman51 (Jul 29, 2015)

hey bro,,exellant advice,,you are right on


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