# GMO's IGF-1 DES PCT Log



## GMO (Feb 3, 2011)

Alright...the journey has begun.  My DES has shipped today, and I must say that communication with EP has been excellent!  Far superior to any other company that I have done business with.  E-mails are always returned same day...even on Sundays.

I will be running EP IGF-1 DES as part of my PCT regimen starting Monday Feb 14th.  My cycle was as follows:

1-12 Test C 600mg
1-6 D-bol 50mg
8-14 T-bol 60mg

I have gained 18 clean pounds from this cycle.  My goal is to keep ALL or MOST of it using Clomid and IGF-1 DES.

My PCT is simple: Clomid 100/75/50/50 and IGF-1 DES 50mcg PWO bilateral site injects, as per Victor's suggestion.  I may throw an AI or Cortisol blocker in around week 2-3, but that all depends on how my body is doing.

I am 34 years old 5'10 220lbs 10% BF (calipers) and have been lifting for 21 years.  I played High School and Div 1 College Football.  I have done numerous cycles in the past 9 years, but have just come off of a 2 year hiatus after a torn anterior delt. (Hence the low test dose). This will be my first experience with a peptide.

Stay Tuned!


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## ExtremePeptide (Feb 3, 2011)

WTG GMO! Looking forward to hearing your test results. You should have your DES in a few days. Keep us posted and thanks for the kind words.


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## Gawd (Feb 3, 2011)

Awesome.  Subbed for this one!


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## EP_Chiron (Feb 3, 2011)

In brother!! This looks damn awesome!!!


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## OutWhey (Feb 3, 2011)

Sounds great. I will post up when I recieve the follastin


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## muscle37 (Feb 3, 2011)

i incorporate either IGF DES 1,3 or IGF1 LR3 into all my pct regimes and really like it. My dose is a tad bit higher at 80mcg bilateral site injections. I have yet to see a difference between the results of the two peptides that would enable me to conclude the the igf1 des 1,3 is way stronger than the other. all in all, i think you will be happy as long as you take the special reconstitution precaautions and get the math right on the dose which seems to be half the battle for most people. good luck


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## BigBlackGuy (Feb 3, 2011)

Were you using/are you using HCG on cycle?  What other PCT protocols have you utilized?


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## GMO (Feb 4, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> Were you using/are you using HCG on cycle?  What other PCT protocols have you utilized?



I have used HCG in the past when running Tren or Deca, but for Test cycles I stick with clomid.  It brings me back strong every time.  I'm not saying that this protocol is for everyone, but for me it works.  My natty test tends to rebound quite quickly.  Probably because of the long breaks I take in between cycles (4-6 months at a min).


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## BigBird (Feb 4, 2011)

GMO , your stats are damn near close to mine.  You got mein hieght by 2" but our weight is the same and I might be a hair above 10% BF.  Oh yeah, I played HS football but not college.  I decided to play a tougher sport in college and men's club afterwards.  It's called Rugby!  haha. 

I'll be paying close attention to how you make out with the peptide.  
Keep us posted.


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## GMO (Feb 5, 2011)

*It Has Arrived!*

My IGF-1 DES arrived in the mail today, just two days after I asked EP to switch from LR3 to DES.  Excellent Service indeed!

Vials were also packaged extremely well.

Thanks EP


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## ExtremePeptide (Feb 5, 2011)

You got it! Looking forward to hearing your progress.


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## SloppyJ (Feb 5, 2011)

So you're going with Bilateral IM shots? 

Are you going to inject into the muscles that you worked out or what? As you know I have some of this but I don't know what I want to do with it yet. PCT is in 5 more weeks I think.

I don't know when I would inject. The bathroom at the gym doesn't sound too nice.


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## GMO (Feb 5, 2011)

SloppyJ said:


> So you're going with Bilateral IM shots?
> 
> Are you going to inject into the muscles that you worked out or what? As you know I have some of this but I don't know what I want to do with it yet. PCT is in 5 more weeks I think.
> 
> I don't know when I would inject. The bathroom at the gym doesn't sound too nice.



Yes, bi-lat into the muscles just worked.  I'm going to jack it right in the locker room after I train.


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## cutright (Feb 5, 2011)

GMO said:


> Yes, bi-lat into the muscles just worked.  I'm going to jack it right in the locker room after I train.



Hell yeah...that's what I'm talking about...lol


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## GMO (Feb 9, 2011)

I recon'ed my DES today in .6% AA and it when very smooth.  The powder dissolved quickly with no cloudiness left in the vial.  My preloaded syringes are in the freezer and I am ready to rock and roll on Monday...


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## XYZ (Feb 9, 2011)

GMO said:


> I recon'ed my DES today in .6% AA and it when very smooth. The powder dissolved quickly with no cloudiness left in the vial. My preloaded syringes are in the freezer and I am ready to rock and roll on Monday...


 

You're not going to backload them with BAC?


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## GMO (Feb 9, 2011)

CT said:


> You're not going to backload them with BAC?




Yes at 1.5x


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## GMO (Feb 14, 2011)

*Day 1*

Ok..It has begun.  PCT + IGF-1 (DES).  I am thankful for the opportunity to run this through my PCT, b/c it gives me something to look forward to even  while PCTing.

Stats are above...my weight is down 2lbs @ 218, but that is probably just a fluctuation.

My lifts were on point today...I was full of energy.

Postworkout, I injected 50mcg bilaterally into my pecs, as this was the muscle I trained. I diluded the IGF-1 x4 with Bac water to avoid muscle necrosis and the burning sensation that comes with injecting an acid.  No pain whatsoever, but I did feel a slight hypo feeling soon after inject, which I took care of with a quick blast of carbs.  


I am no longer following a split routine, b/c I want to make the most of my IGF-1.

My new weekly routine will be as follows:

Monday: Chest
Tues: Back
Wed: Legs
Thr: Shoulders
Fri: Bi's/Tris

Movements vary from week to week, but I always incorporate heavy compound movements.

Any input is welcome of course!


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## ExtremePeptide (Feb 14, 2011)

Awesome to hear GMO! cant wait to see your results.


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## GMO (Feb 14, 2011)

Just wanted to report that I have a crazy pump in my upper chest where I injected.  Never felt that before...


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## SloppyJ (Feb 14, 2011)

Awesome! Keep the updates coming.


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## AmM (Feb 14, 2011)

GMO said:


> Just wanted to report that I have a crazy pump in my upper chest where I injected.  Never felt that before...



Isn't that pretty cool, and that pump stays with you for a while.


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## GMO (Feb 17, 2011)

Alright, I'm four days in.

I continue to have the wicked pumps in the muscles I inject.  I also am CONSTANTLY hungry, which is good b/c that alone is going to help my PCT.  

My weight has not changed yet, but I look a little leaner prob due to some water leaving my body.  

My muscles are still full, and I still feel jacked.  This of course is only the first week of PCT, so that is to be expected.  My energy in the gym is also still very high.

I am now drinking my simple carbs before injection along with 50g of protein to avoid the hypo feeling I felt on the first pin.  I then consume a large meal of complex carbs, lean protein and spinach.

So far, so good!


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## EP_Chiron (Feb 17, 2011)

hell yes brother!! ive been watching this and man, you got me excited, in a non-creepy sort of way haha; good stuff bro!!


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## oufinny (Feb 17, 2011)

I am following, running LR3 at the moment myself.


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## Beejis60 (Feb 18, 2011)

SloppyJ said:


> So you're going with Bilateral IM shots?
> 
> Are you going to inject into the muscles that you worked out or what? As you know I have some of this but I don't know what I want to do with it yet. PCT is in 5 more weeks I think.



That's how you should do it.  You can do it when you get home.



GMO said:


> Yes, bi-lat into the muscles just worked.  I'm going to jack it right in the locker room after I train.



And how do you plan to prevent shaking of the peptide and heat?


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## GMO (Feb 18, 2011)

Beejis60 said:


> That's how you should do it.  You can do it when you get home.
> 
> 
> 
> And how do you plan to prevent shaking of the peptide and heat?




I keep preloaded syringes frozen until which time I am going to inject.  I let them thaw, immediately draw 3cc of Bac water and BANG BANG.

I am waiting until I get home now, but at first I was taking the syringes in a lunch box with an ice pack in it to control temp.


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## Beejis60 (Feb 18, 2011)

GMO said:


> I keep preloaded syringes frozen until which time I am going to inject.  I let them thaw, immediately draw 3cc of Bac water and BANG BANG.
> 
> I am waiting until I get home now, but at first I was taking the syringes in a lunch box with an ice pack in it to control temp.



You freeze the solution?  Or you just keep it in the freezer but doesn't freeze solid?  Because freezing solid will denature the protein.


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## GMO (Feb 18, 2011)

I am following these instructions as outlined by a biological lab that synthesizes IGF-1 for distribution:

Lyophilized IGF-1 although stable at room temperature for 3 weeks,  should be stored desiccated below -18°C. Upon reconstitution IGF-I  should be stored at 4°C between 2-7 days and for future use below -18°C.  For long term storage it is recommended to add a carrier protein (0.1%  HSA or BSA). 
Please avoid freeze-thaw cycles.


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## Beejis60 (Feb 19, 2011)

GMO said:


> I am following these instructions as outlined by a biological lab that synthesizes IGF-1 for distribution:
> 
> Lyophilized IGF-1 although stable at room temperature for 3 weeks,  should be stored desiccated below -18°C. Upon reconstitution IGF-I  should be stored at 4°C between 2-7 days and for future use below -18°C.  For long term storage it is recommended to add a carrier protein (0.1%  HSA or BSA).
> Please avoid freeze-thaw cycles.



So I'm asking.... are you freezing the solution to a solid state?  Yes or no.


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## GMO (Feb 20, 2011)

Beejis60 said:


> So I'm asking.... are you freezing the solution to a solid state?  Yes or no.



No not to a solid state.  I was told this was not necessary.  I have read so many different ways to reconstitute and store IGF-1 DES.  It seems like there is no definitive answer as to the best way to do this.  If you have suggestions, I am all ears, as I will be reconning my next vial this week.  Any expertise is appreciated.


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## Beejis60 (Feb 20, 2011)

Okay, that's all I asked.  If you're freezing to a solid state, the protein will unravel, rendering it useless.  Moreover, the term "freezing" means to make a solution into a solid; so I think you need to refine your thinking when expressing what it is you're doing.


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## GMO (Feb 21, 2011)

Ok, so week two begins...

Weight: 218 and holding.  I can tell that I have lost some water weight, as my abs are popping like nobody's bidness!

I trained chest today and have not lost any strength thus far.

Still getting the awesome pumps in the muscles that I inject with the DES and still ferociously hungry ALL the time!

I have decided to spot inject the lagging parts of my physique, as I have read that DES effects the muscle directly upon administration.  The only exception is my shoulders because I tore one delt a few years back, and the other nags me a little during flat bench. I am hoping that the IGF will help them to mend.

Stay Tuned...


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## GMO (Feb 22, 2011)

Had a killer back workout today.  I crushed deads like a freight train.

I am starting to sleep a little longer and feel more tired near the end of the day.  Not sure if this is related to DES, but I thought I should log it nonetheless.


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## TwisT (Feb 22, 2011)

I just got my hands on some more DES for myself, very excited about it. Glad to see its working so well for you.

-T


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## EP_Chiron (Feb 22, 2011)

nice bro  nothing like thrashing your body with heavy ass deads!!


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## stronger4ever (Feb 22, 2011)

GMO said:


> Alright...the journey has begun.  My DES has shipped today, and I must say that communication with EP has been excellent!  Far superior to any other company that I have done business with.  E-mails are always returned same day...even on Sundays.
> 
> I will be running EP IGF-1 DES as part of my PCT regimen starting Monday Feb 14th.  My cycle was as follows:
> 
> ...




What's a good cortisol blocker?


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## TwisT (Feb 22, 2011)

stronger4ever said:


> What's a good cortisol blocker?



vitamin c

-T


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## sjholb (Feb 22, 2011)

why are you injecting post workout instead of preworkout?


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## GMO (Feb 24, 2011)

sjholb said:


> why are you injecting post workout instead of preworkout?



B/c that's how I was told to use it by a moderator of this forum.


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## GMO (Feb 24, 2011)

*Day 10*

I've been sleeping close to 10 hours every night and having vivid dreams.  This is VERY unusual for me, but I can't complain...I like the extra sleep.  My shoulders have also been feeling a lot better, but I'll know more after I train them today.

I am still hungry ALL the time, and my muscles are very full.

I trained legs yesterday and even ended up lifting more than I ever have for reps on my last set of leg presses.  This happened with Deads on Tuesday as well.  Is it a fluke...or am I getting stronger?  Only time will tell...


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## GMO (Feb 24, 2011)

Trained shoulders today and still had a little pain in my right shoulder that went away after I was warmed up.  At any rate, it does feel better than it has in a long time.  I experienced no pain whatsoever in my left shoulder, which was the one that was bothering me the most.  I pinned them again post-workout and am thinking of upping my IGF dose to 80mcg/day.


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## TwisT (Feb 24, 2011)

GMO said:


> Trained shoulders today and still had a little pain in my right shoulder that went away after I was warmed up.  At any rate, it does feel better than it has in a long time.  I experienced no pain whatsoever in my left shoulder, which was the one that was bothering me the most.  I pinned them again post-workout and am thinking of upping my IGF dose to 80mcg/day.



Nice! Thats awesome to hear!!!

-T


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## GMO (Feb 28, 2011)

*Day 15*

Unfortunately I was sick the entire weekend, and despite my best efforts, I still dropped 3lbs to 215.

I think I am partially to blame as it felt like over-training to me.  Because of this I have simplified my routine and decreased volume while maintaining intensity.  I also have a full three days rest rather than two.

All that said, I had a great workout today.  Surprisingly, my strength was on par with previous workouts and unaffected by my illness.  I crushed it!

I bumped my IGF dose to 80mcg as of today, and I will finish out my PCT at that dose.  I also added 75mg ATD for estrogen control and a test boost just to cover my bases.


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## SloppyJ (Feb 28, 2011)

I was sick all last week. It sucks laying on the couch with a fever when you need to be in the gym and at work.


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## GMO (Feb 28, 2011)

SloppyJ said:


> I was sick all last week. It sucks laying on the couch with a fever when you need to be in the gym and at work.




No doubt bro!  I'm thankful it was just the weekend.  I can't stand bring trapped in my house...I can only watch so many movies.


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## SloppyJ (Feb 28, 2011)

Prescription cough syrup + bong(Roor) = a fun few days. 

I just stayed on the couch with my computer putting together my next cycle.


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## lifterjaydawg (Feb 28, 2011)

Great log, thanks GMO! Great IGF-1 info.


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## GMO (Mar 1, 2011)

SloppyJ said:


> Prescription cough syrup + bong(Roor) = a fun few days.



Yeah, I bet.  Sippin on the sizzurp, huh? lol


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## GMO (Mar 3, 2011)

Just wanted to check in and report...

Ever since going up to 75mcg/day, I have been getting a really dry mouth.  Nothing that I can't tolerate, but slightly annoying nonetheless.  The silver lining is that it is making me drink more H2O. 

It also increased my hunger tenfold.  I eat and, less than an hour later, I am starving again. This, of course, is priceless when on PCT.  I have hopefully gained back some of the weight I lost while sick.

Strength is still on par, and I am tearing up the gym.  

So far, I am loving this stuff...


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## TwisT (Mar 3, 2011)

Great to hear, keep up the good work bud.

-T


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## GMO (Mar 7, 2011)

*Last Week of PCT*

Today was day 1 of week four of my PCT...man did the time fly!

My weight is holding at 215, so I'm down a total of 3lbs since I began this journey.  I lost that three pounds while I was sick last weekend.

I trained chest/tris today and felt great.  I had a slight decrease in strength/endurance on my flat dumbell bench.  My last set, I was only able to push 120's 5x.  This pissed me off so much that I crushed my incline presses, so that made up for it.

Next Monday, I am going back to barbell bench press, so I can truly gauge where my strength is compared to on-cycle.

The dry mouth has gone away thankfully, and I am still CONSTANTLY hungry.  In fact, I'm hungry right now, so I'm going to go pound some food.  -Peace


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## EP_Chiron (Mar 7, 2011)

awesome update bro!! im loving this log man


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## SloppyJ (Mar 8, 2011)

Got me wanting to try this now. Damn you!


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## GMO (Mar 9, 2011)

SloppyJ said:


> Got me wanting to try this now. Damn you!



LOL...

Alright, so I had to bump my leg day to today and take yesterday off.  Life happens ya know?

Anyway, crushed it again today.  Ended up getting dizzy and seeing stars in btw my squats and leg press sets, but that is normal for me...at least I didn't throw up.

My legs are still remarkably strong, and I haven't noticed any strength decrease at all as of yet in this muscle group.

My knees used to bother me somewhat in the beginning of my leg training, but that did not happen today at all.  This has BY FAR been the smoothest PCT I have ever experienced.

Not that this is IGF related, but my libido has been in full swing as well for the past week.  All in all, I would say that I am recovering nicely.  I won't know for sure however until I get my blood work done next month.


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## EP_Chiron (Mar 9, 2011)

hell yeah man!! how much longer u running ur pct for bro? cant wait to see the bloodwork, I will be following your path in about 8 weeks haha


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## GMO (Mar 10, 2011)

EP_Chiron said:


> hell yeah man!! how much longer u running ur pct for bro? cant wait to see the bloodwork, I will be following your path in about 8 weeks haha




I finish on Sunday...


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## GMO (Mar 10, 2011)

Ok, as I mentioned before, I have been plagued by shoulder issues for a couple of years.  Well, I trained shoulders today and had absolutely NO PAIN.  This is the first time this has happened since my mid-late twenties.  I am left utterly speechless.

On my off days from training, I have been injecting the DES into my shoulders hoping for this result after reading that IGF-1 promotes healing.  Well, I can certainly say it does.  

Thank you Extreme Peptide for helping to rid me of this constant thorn in my side.


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## TGB1987 (Mar 10, 2011)

Did your shoulders usually bother you when you would do incline bench and flat bench presses?  If I go heavy on the barbell flat presses the next day I feel like my shoulders are going to fall off.


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## GMO (Mar 10, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> Did your shoulders usually bother you when you would do incline bench and flat bench presses?  If I go heavy on the barbell flat presses the next day I feel like my shoulders are going to fall off.



Yes, most definitely.  I would get a sharp pain and ache mainly in my left shoulder.


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## TGB1987 (Mar 10, 2011)

Nice thread by the way!  I would love to try IGF but I am hypoglycemic all the time anyway.  So I  think I am going to stay away from that sort of thing.   Looked like a nice PCT though


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## GMO (Mar 11, 2011)

Alright bros!

Final training day of my PCT.  I demolished back today.  I must say that my total strength has hardly waned.  My deads are just as strong as ever, as are most of my rows.  One decrease I did notice was in weighted pull ups.  I only hit 4 reps on my last set rather than my normal 6.  Could be a fluke, but only time will tell.

Monday, I am going to do a variety of compound movements to gauge where my strength is today compared with on-cycle.

I am very impressed with this peptide and will probably never PCT again without it. Next time however, I plan on running LR3 as well.

I will write a final summary and review on Monday after my workout.


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## TGB1987 (Mar 11, 2011)

Great log GMO.  It sounds like you kept nearly everything you gained.  That is awesome.


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## tshimp90 (Mar 12, 2011)

i am running lr3 and i can tell already its good stuff,(experienced igf user), this is my first time using on cycle, usually during pct, and ill tell u i always know when igf is real, cus u get the most vivid dreams and deep sleep. for the price extremepeptide is beyond amazing, im telling all my bros about this company, iron-dragon, u just loss a long time customer to extremepeptide


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## EP_Chiron (Mar 12, 2011)

very nice log brother!! i am glad this served u well!!


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## GMO (Mar 14, 2011)

*Final Observations*

PCT is OVER!!!!

Today I did several common lifts to compare my strength today w/ my strength on cycle.  Here are the results:

On-cycle/Today

Bench Press:315x8/315x5

Squat: 385x8/385x4

Deadlift: 405x8/405x8 

Standing Shoulder Press: 205x6/205x3

Bent-over Rows: 245x8/245x6

That was one f**ked up workout...I'm beat.

As you can see, I lost some strength, but not near as much as usual.  One of the greatest things about this PCT was that I always had high energy in the gym and was able to lift intensely throughout with no problems.

My final weight today was 212, so I am down 6lbs from when I concluded my cycle, but my BF% was measured at 9% today.  That is down 1% from the conclusion of my cycle.  I have also dropped some water weight.  All in all pretty good I would say.

So in conclusion IGF-1 DES from Extreme Peptide:

Helped me keep most of my strength, and a majority of my weight.
Helped to repair shoulder damage that has plagued me for years.
Kept me voraciously hungry throughout my PCT.
Gave me tremendous pumps and energy while in the gym.
Helped me sleep 8-10 hours every night, so that my body could repair itself.
Helped shave another 1% of my BF, which is hard to do at 10%.

All in all, I give it a 10/10.  The only improvement I would make is to run LR3 alongside, which I plan to do on my next PCT.

Kudos to EP for such a magnificent product!!!


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## keith1569 (Mar 18, 2011)

great log bro..def something im gonna give a try..have you tried igf-1 lr3 in a pct before?


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## Ss4Goku (Mar 27, 2011)

Sounds awesome! I think igf should be a standard for all pct.


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## GMO (Mar 27, 2011)

keith1569 said:


> great log bro..def something im gonna give a try..have you tried igf-1 lr3 in a pct before?



No, but I plan to run both on my next PCT...


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## Ravager (Apr 16, 2011)

What dosage are you going to start at next time? right to 80?

And when you say 80, do you mean 80 each side (160mcg) or 40 each side for a total of 80?

Great thread bro. Thanks for sharing.


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## GMO (Apr 17, 2011)

Ravager said:


> What dosage are you going to start at next time? right to 80?
> 
> And when you say 80, do you mean 80 each side (160mcg) or 40 each side for a total of 80?
> 
> Great thread bro. Thanks for sharing.




Next time I run it, I will be running LR3 along side, so I'll probably start with 50mcg again (25mcg each side).


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## Ravager (Apr 17, 2011)

GMO said:


> Next time I run it, I will be running LR3 along side, so I'll probably start with 50mcg again (25mcg each side).



I'm on day 3 of DES and I can alreaady tell that my tendonitis feels 100x better.

Will know more as I lift on it next week, but as for now my arms feel great.

I was doing 50mcg / SIDE for a total of 100 right off the bat.

I could feel a little pressure behind my eyes in my head, almost pushing out on my eyeballs and my temples if that makes sense.

Maybe I'll drop it a tad, and consider the 3x100 a pre-load 

I also had a pain by my left achilles tendon at my ankle. Also gone.

I work alone and very physical fast moving long hours jobs, and my body gets 'overused'. My joints and tendons never felt so good as they do now. I almost look forward to next week.

I wonder if I'm wasting by running 50 / side?


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## slow-90lx (Apr 17, 2011)

I am running des right now and hope it works wonders on my tendonitis. Have a fresh injury and once im good, im running my cycle that has been sitting. I'm very anxious to start.  I might have to pick up more to run during pct it seems


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## Ravager (Apr 17, 2011)

slow-90lx said:


> I am running des right now and hope it works wonders on my tendonitis. Have a fresh injury and once im good, im running my cycle that has been sitting. I'm very anxious to start.  I might have to pick up more to run during pct it seems



How much you running? I've also pinned the forearms 2x each. My 3rd pin was the calfs to be close to the ankle.


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## slow-90lx (Apr 17, 2011)

Ravager said:


> How much you running? I've also pinned the forearms 2x each. My 3rd pin was the calfs to be close to the ankle.




Running 50mcg bilateraly. Switching between forearms and delts. More shots in the forearms though.

 Going to run this for a few weeks and then see how the tendonitis is. Its actually feeling much better than expected given the time frame.

edit: 25mcg per side


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## GMO (Apr 30, 2011)

I am back to lifting heavy with greater volume during my current cycle.  I would ALWAYS have joint pain in both shoulders at this point in years past.  I am happy to report that my shoulders remain pain-free even under the heavy loads and frequent lifts I am performing on cycle.

Thank you IGF-1 DES and thank you Extreme Peptide!


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## Ravager (Apr 30, 2011)

Man that must be such a relief!!! I hate lifting through pain! It makes me dread the next set instead of getting psyched up for it.

IGF is doing its healing wonders on me too....ankle tendon is a thing of the past, and my tendonitis is almost gone! I still can't hold dumbell palm down arms straight and life left arm straight up without pain, but still working at it!!!! Great stuff.

Extreme Peptide is the best.


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## Kleen (Jul 26, 2011)

Nice just read through this looks great GMO, and if you had run at 80mcg throughout do you think you might have kept all of your gains? Also I would assume you actually lost less strength than your last comparison showed because you went BACK to barbell to test the strength meaning your CNS was not tuned to the movement like it was when you hit your highs on cycle. 

How do you plan on running the DES and LR3 together? I though much more than 100mcg of IGF was not a good thing regardless of it being DES or LR3. Would you run like 25 bilaterally of DES pre workout, then still get a post workout GH surge and then run the LR3 a few hours later at 25 bilaterally again?


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## GMO (Jul 26, 2011)

Kleen said:


> Nice just read through this looks great GMO, and if you had run at 80mcg throughout do you think you might have kept all of your gains? Also I would assume you actually lost less strength than your last comparison showed because you went BACK to barbell to test the strength meaning your CNS was not tuned to the movement like it was when you hit your highs on cycle.
> 
> How do you plan on running the DES and LR3 together? I though much more than 100mcg of IGF was not a good thing regardless of it being DES or LR3. Would you run like 25 bilaterally of DES pre workout, then still get a post workout GH surge and then run the LR3 a few hours later at 25 bilaterally again?




Yes, I was able to maintain a great deal of strength during and after PCT.  That is what impressed me most about the DES.  For LR3 and DES dosing, I would use 50mcg of LR3 in the AM on training days and 50mcg of DES POST-workout.  On non training days, I would run the LR3 only at 80-100mcg a day in the AM.  Unfortunately, due to some recent financial stress, I was unable to pick up some LR-3.  Fortunately a good friend of mine surprised me with a bottle of DES, so I am running that again solo.


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## Kleen (Jul 26, 2011)

Nice, have you thought about running it before the workout? I was reading that pre workout with DES gets IGF to the muscle so that the satellite cells can be activated when pushed hard during the workout. Supposedly this also still allows for the natural MGF production post workout as well to repair the damaged muscle tissue. Russian is stating doing it that way and allowing the MGF to do its thing for about 3-5 hours and then take the LR3. So basically IGF activates the satellite cell and tells it to become a muscle fiber once this happens the cell can no longer split to make new cells. MGF on the other hand can tell the satellite cells to split creating new cells. From what I have read basically it means you get more muscle growth with IGF but new satelite cells from the MGF and too much time on IGF not allowing MGF to do its thing can limit the amount of new muscle that can be built in the long run. That and MGF works specifically on repairing damaged tissue so it makes damaged muscles stronger. Anyway kind of cool how it all ties in. Now the challenge is how to exploit those relationships as economically as possible...


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## SloppyJ (Jul 26, 2011)

GMO said:


> Yes, I was able to maintain a great deal of strength during and after PCT. That is what impressed me most about the DES. For LR3 and DES dosing, I would use 50mcg of LR3 in the AM on training days and 50mcg of DES POST-workout. On non training days, I would run the LR3 only at 80-100mcg a day in the AM. Unfortunately, due to some recent financial stress, I was unable to pick up some LR-3. Fortunately a good friend of mine surprised me with a bottle of DES, so I am running that again solo.


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## TwisT (Jul 26, 2011)

Thanks for the props, we appreciate your kind words.

-T


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