# Superdrol,Andromass,M1t,Pheraplex for AAS Kickstarts



## BigBlackGuy (Jul 14, 2011)

Opinions on these designers/pro hormones for kick starting a cycle?

-Superdrol
-Andromass
-M1t
-Pheraplex

I'd ask in the PH section but as this pertains to an injectable cycle, I'm just wondering if anyone has experience or opinions on this.


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## BigBlackGuy (Jul 14, 2011)

Andromass advantages:  Non-toxic, very rapid weight/strength gains, good for a bulk cycle as opposed to a cut/recomp.

Superdrol advantages:  Very fast weight gain, good strength gains, very dry, great for a cut or bulk.

Pheraplex advantages:  Great strength/weight gain, wet so good for a bulk, has a dbol type feel good feeling reported

M1t advantages:  Probably the king of phs/ds, incredible weight/strength gain, though it's highly toxic, great for a bulk, probably not good for a cut.

Only problem I have with M1t and Superdrol is that 4 weeks is pushing it (especially M1t).  Phera isn't bad at 4 weeks, Andromass obviously has no toxic sides.


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## GreatWhiteTruth (Jul 14, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> Opinions on these designers/pro hormones for kick starting a cycle?
> 
> -Superdrol
> -Andromass
> ...



Absolutely bro. I've run numerous superdrol clones (and currently) for a good kickstart. Loved the results. Dbol is fine and dandy but I get too bloated on dbol. Way less bloat with superdrol which = better gains imo.

Not to mention PHs are easier to come by. Just make sure your liver support is on point.


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## GMO (Jul 15, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> Andromass advantages: Non-toxic, very rapid weight/strength gains, good for a bulk cycle as opposed to a cut/recomp.
> 
> Superdrol advantages: Very fast weight gain, good strength gains, very dry, great for a cut or bulk.
> 
> ...


 

Honestly with compounds like d-bol, anadrol, test prop, and Tren Ace, I see no need to screw around with prohormones for a kick start.  Probably the only exception to this would be SuperDMZ IMO.


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## TJTJ (Jul 15, 2011)




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## TGB1987 (Jul 15, 2011)

The only one I would use in the front end is the M1T.  It is a strong Test base but can still cause Lethargy and is very harsh.  The others are not really good for a kickstart and better for a Tail end.  I would use Super DMZ at the end of the cycle.  THis would be my number one choice because M1T I will never run.  The others just are not worth using with AAS IMO.  Better options available.  Super DMZ is very nice though.


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## ryansm (Jul 15, 2011)

Phera is my favorite oral steroid, SD makes me feel like death, M1T was great as well, but I had single digit HDL numbers to thank for it. I haven't ran AM yet, but considering the low sides it seems like a great choice.


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## BigBlackGuy (Jul 15, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> The only one I would use in the front end is the M1T.  It is a strong Test base but can still cause Lethargy and is very harsh.  The others are not really good for a kickstart and better for a Tail end.  I would use Super DMZ at the end of the cycle.  THis would be my number one choice because M1T I will never run.  The others just are not worth using with AAS IMO.  Better options available.  Super DMZ is very nice though.



Hmm hadn't thought of that.  Obviously a 12-16 weeker could afford 3 weeks in the beginning and a methyl and 3 weeks at the end.  Thanks for the advice!


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## OldSchoolLifter (Jul 15, 2011)

M1T FTW, I love M1t man its nice


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## BigBlackGuy (Jul 16, 2011)

OldSchoolLifter said:


> M1T FTW, I love M1t man its nice



Even despite the toxicity?  I'll have to give it another look. Thanks for the suggestion


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## Ace5high (Jul 16, 2011)

Superdrol - very effective, heavy sides. Keep to a min length

PP - Way overrated - not very effective with pretty bad sides considering 

M1T -  kick ass but far to toxic for me to consider anymore 

Why not just go d-bol though?


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## HereToStudy (Jul 16, 2011)

Ace5high said:


> Superdrol - very effective, heavy sides. Keep to a min length
> 
> PP - Way overrated - *not very effective with pretty bad sides considering *
> 
> ...



Not to zero in the topic, but where exactly are you pulling the above from?


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## ryansm (Jul 17, 2011)

I loved Madol (PP) at 60mgs, though at that amount sides became similar to SD/M1T. 
Desoxymethyltestosterone (Pheraplex, DMT, Madol) | Primordial Performance Blog


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## Digitalash (Jul 17, 2011)

Don't know how anyone could run a legit phera clone and not love it. Better than dbol imo. 3 caps of the old 15mg p-plex and I was growing so fast it hardly made sense, and without any other AAS involved. 

For the best results/sides ratio I'd have to go phera, I felt great on it and had some of the most insane pumps ever. I'd say it was a tiny bit wet but hardly the kind of bloat I get from dbol. SD or M1t might provide similar results but they're harshhh. Also phera is definitely better for mass than strength.


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## OldSchoolLifter (Jul 17, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> Even despite the toxicity?  I'll have to give it another look. Thanks for the suggestion




Despite its toxicity, taken with proper precautions gains are solid, and you feel almost super human!

And its proven, no hype like some products on the market today....


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## Peyot (Jul 17, 2011)

Alpha One and Boladrol can also be used as kickstarts.


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## ryansm (Jul 18, 2011)

Peyot said:


> Alpha One and Boladrol can also be used as kickstarts.



Alpha One is a ph to M1T no? I liked Boladrol, however it was the beta version...


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## Peyot (Jul 18, 2011)

*Alpha One*



ryansm said:


> Alpha One is a ph to M1T no? I liked Boladrol, however it was the beta version...


 

Yes. I know that Alpha One is said to be the precursor to M1T, but I'd have to ask Brymaster or henryv if it's the prohormone to it. I know it's called Methyl-1-Alpha (M1A) on TunedSports. I actually think it's a product made specially by CEL, but I am not completely sure (see below for my add-on).

I heard that Boladrol is very good, although I know there are mixed reviews on it. I'm currently subscribed to a Log of it, and the member seems to be having a really good run with it.

Ok... I took a look at the Tuned Sports Article.

According to it, Legal Gear/LG Sciences brought it out in 2005. Seems that EST Methyl XT was another product containing Methyl-1-Etiocholenolol-Epietiocholanolone. The article says precursor with an "educated estimate" of 15-20% conversion rate to M1T.

I'm planning to run it in the fall. I'll make sure my supports are on point and my seatbelt is fastened. I'm planning a run of 20/40/40/(?). I hear 60 mgs is pushing it with this one.


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## ryansm (Jul 19, 2011)

Peyot said:


> Yes. I know that Alpha One is said to be the precursor to M1T, but I'd have to ask Brymaster or henryv if it's the prohormone to it. I know it's called Methyl-1-Alpha (M1A) on TunedSports. I actually think it's a product made specially by CEL, but I am not completely sure (see below for my add-on).
> 
> I heard that Boladrol is very good, although I know there are mixed reviews on it. I'm currently subscribed to a Log of it, and the member seems to be having a really good run with it.
> 
> ...


Henry is a smart cat, I do know that Alpha One should have similar sides to M1T certainly since you will be running possibly 60mgs


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## BigBlackGuy (Jul 19, 2011)

Ace5high said:


> Superdrol - very effective, heavy sides. Keep to a min length
> 
> PP - Way overrated - not very effective with pretty bad sides considering
> 
> ...



From the opinions I'm getting, it looks like any one of these could be used as a kickstart... which makes sense.  At only 3-4 weeks toxicity isn't much of an issue (unless my liver is already f'ked).


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## Peyot (Jul 19, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Henry is a smart cat, I do know that Alpha One should have similar sides to M1T certainly since you will be running possibly 60mgs


 
Henry is.

No, I will most probably refrain from 60mgs. 40mgs should give good results.

I was told that 60mgs is the highest anyone in their right mind would run, which in my mind equates to anything higher than 30mgs SD, and 45mgs D-zine for instance. I wouldn't even go to 30mgs SD when I do use it for a 1st time run. I'll stay at 20mgs with it. D-zine I get the feeling I could run at 45mgs but not higher.

Have you run any of these, and how high did you go?


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## Digitalash (Jul 19, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> From the opinions I'm getting, it looks like any one of these could be used as a kickstart... which makes sense. At only 3-4 weeks toxicity isn't much of an issue (unless my liver is already f'ked).


 

go with phera, you won't regret it 

it's probably the second mildest next to andro when it comes to sides but it's one of the strongest things I've ever tried


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## pitbullguy0101 (Jul 19, 2011)

ran sd i think at 40 mg for four weeks and liked it but gains went away... i ran dbol after that and bam not going back lol. but on this cycle i might run m1t on the tail end if everyone loves it so much.. dont know quite yet


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## OldSchoolLifter (Jul 19, 2011)

pitbullguy0101 said:


> ran sd i think at 40 mg for four weeks and liked it but gains went away... i ran dbol after that and bam not going back lol. but on this cycle i might run m1t on the tail end if everyone loves it so much.. dont know quite yet




I love m1t! did I mention I love it? Taken properly with liv support and for short bursts like 3-4 weeks, I haven't ran into toxicity issues, much more powerful than dbol imo, Now however since M1t is difficult to come by, Dbol has been my choice, SD works well too


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## BigBlackGuy (Jul 20, 2011)

Looks like I'll be using Ultradrol.


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## HereToStudy (Jul 20, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> Looks like I'll be using Ultradrol.



Nice interested in your thoughts. I havnt followed much on it yet.


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## BigBlackGuy (Jul 21, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> Nice interested in your thoughts. I havnt followed much on it yet.



Yah I'll be posting liver work and probably lipids as well.


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## ryansm (Jul 21, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> Looks like I'll be using Ultradrol.



You and me both


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## R1balla (Jul 21, 2011)

BBG hit it spot on. I wouldnt risk the potential serious sides with superdrol or any of the others. even if you were on an organ shield product and milk thistle. The andro series are very promising with little to no sides other then getting to your goals faster.


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## Rodja (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm still kicking myself for not trying Phera when I had a chance.


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## Digitalash (Jul 21, 2011)

Rodja said:


> I'm still kicking myself for not trying Phera when I had a chance.


I still see phera clones from time to time in the buy/sell/trade section

I'd love to revisit it now that I have more experience, but as well as it worked I didn't need a frame of reference to say the shit's crazy. No sides whatsoever for me, a little lethargy towards the end but most likely because I wasn't using test. Gains were outta control though, at 45mg a day I would get a pump after a big meal. It was winter so I was wearing sweatshirts but people were still commenting how big I was getting. It's supposedly a "wet" compound but I didn't notice any real bloat. If anything it was more like a ton of water/glycogen within the muscle but I looked full as hell.


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## BigBlackGuy (Jul 22, 2011)

Digitalash said:


> I still see phera clones from time to time in the buy/sell/trade section
> 
> I'd love to revisit it now that I have more experience, but as well as it worked I didn't need a frame of reference to say the shit's crazy. No sides whatsoever for me, a little lethargy towards the end but most likely because I wasn't using test. Gains were outta control though, at 45mg a day I would get a pump after a big meal. It was winter so I was wearing sweatshirts but people were still commenting how big I was getting. It's supposedly a "wet" compound but I didn't notice any real bloat. If anything it was more like a ton of water/glycogen within the muscle but I looked full as hell.



Yah, people complain about the water/glycogen and how they are transient in terms of muscle gains... but hell, what is a muscle anyway?  Water, glycogen and contractile proteins??

I'd be wary for myself (already have gyno from when I was younger) of stacking two aromatizing compounds together anyway.


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## Peyot (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm looking forward to my future Phera runs. I was fortunate enough to secure an ample supply which is waiting for me


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## BigBlackGuy (Jul 22, 2011)

BTW, http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/anabolic-zone/138165-methyl-sten-logging-opp.html

This is what I'll be running soon.


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## Rodja (Jul 22, 2011)

Did you land a spot for the logs?  I applied, but haven't heard anything.


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## BigBlackGuy (Jul 22, 2011)

Rodja said:


> Did you land a spot for the logs?  I applied, but haven't heard anything.



I helped Jake (or anonymous guy behind email) out with something so he said he would hook me up.


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## Rodja (Jul 23, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> I helped Jake (or anonymous guy behind email) out with something so he said he would hook me up.



Bastard.


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## ryansm (Jul 23, 2011)

Peyot said:


> Have you run any of these, and how high did you go?



Not Alpha One, but pretty much everything else...I require low doses which is weird considering my weight  

I'll be running Methylsten soon as well


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## HereToStudy (Jul 24, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> I helped Jake (or anonymous guy behind email) out with something so he said he would hook me up.



Look forward to your thoughts on it.


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## BigBlackGuy (Jul 25, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> Look forward to your thoughts on it.



Should be a decent run it's simply another methyl, imo, and hopefully it will just have less sides than SD (I get virtually no sides from SD though).


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## HereToStudy (Jul 25, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> Should be a decent run it's simply another methyl, imo, and hopefully it will just have less sides than SD (I get virtually no sides from SD though).



Certainly one of the lucky ones. Good luck with the run.


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## Peyot (Jul 26, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Not Alpha One, but pretty much everything else...I require low doses which is weird considering my weight
> 
> I'll be running Methylsten soon as well


 
That sounds real good Man. You planning to log it?


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## ryansm (Jul 26, 2011)

Peyot said:


> That sounds real good Man. You planning to log it?



Ya over on AM, I will keep you guys posted though on my thoughts. Will be getting bloods done as well, lipids, LFT's, probably even a hormone panel.


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## BigBlackGuy (Jul 26, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Ya over on AM, I will keep you guys posted though on my thoughts. Will be getting bloods done as well, lipids, LFT's, probably even a hormone panel.



It'll be pretty cool seeing the different effects this has on us.


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## HereToStudy (Jul 26, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Ya over on AM, I will keep you guys posted though on my thoughts. Will be getting bloods done as well, lipids, LFT's, probably even a hormone panel.



Very interested in the bloodwork.


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## ryansm (Jul 27, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> It'll be pretty cool seeing the different effects this has on us.



definitely, I know I'm susceptible to some things, so it will be interesting


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## BigBlackGuy (Jul 27, 2011)

ryansm said:


> definitely, I know I'm susceptible to some things, so it will be interesting



Yah lethargy sometimes hits me real bad, not really too much with superdrol though.  Anadrol though... fuck that.


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## ryansm (Jul 30, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> Yah lethargy sometimes hits me real bad, not really too much with superdrol though.  Anadrol though... fuck that.



Lethargy, anxiety, high LFT's, and lower HDL


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## Vibrant (Jul 30, 2011)

Wouldn't dbol still be a better choice? And you could probably reduce the bloat with a higher dose ai, right?


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## CigarMan (Jul 31, 2011)

Rodja said:


> I'm still kicking myself for not trying Phera when I had a chance.



Phera was my favorite for size gains.  I had no problem with sides until I took 3 caps (45mgs) and then the back pumps got me really bad.  I was almost finishing off a second gallon of water a day and the pumps still kicked my ass.



Digitalash said:


> I still see phera clones from time to time in the buy/sell/trade section
> 
> I'd love to revisit it now that I have more experience, but as well as it worked I didn't need a frame of reference to say the shit's crazy. No sides whatsoever for me, a little lethargy towards the end but most likely because I wasn't using test. Gains were outta control though, at 45mg a day I would get a pump after a big meal. It was winter so I was wearing sweatshirts but people were still commenting how big I was getting. It's supposedly a "wet" compound but I didn't notice any real bloat. If anything it was more like a ton of water/glycogen within the muscle but I looked full as hell.


Reading the post here reminded me how I liked the phera and SD cycles that I did.  Within 2 weeks I had lots of people making comments on my size gains from the phera.  Taking some test prop while running a short 4-6 week cycle of phera seems like it would make a great cycle.  Luckily, I stocked up on phera and tren (Estra-4,9-diene-3,17-dione/19-Norandrosta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione).  The phera being awesome for size and the "tren" being great for strength.  I only have a couple of SD containers, one a liquid (PP) and the other caps.  With all of the stuff that I got from the EK DP email sale, I could create some interesting short cycles.


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## Peyot (Jul 31, 2011)

CigarMan said:


> ...I only have a couple of SD containers, one a liquid (PP) and the other caps.
> ...


 
By liquid SD from PP, you mean Superdrone? I hear that stuff kicks some major ass!


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## BigBlackGuy (Aug 1, 2011)

Vibrant said:


> Wouldn't dbol still be a better choice? And you could probably reduce the bloat with a higher dose ai, right?



That doesn't take care of all the mineral retention, just whatever is caused by estrogen.

But yes that's not a bad choice... if anyone recalls, Kai Greene found out the hard way that you can't just high-dose an AI with your aromatizing AAS and attempt to look dry lol


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## CigarMan (Aug 1, 2011)

Peyot said:


> By liquid SD from PP, you mean Superdrone? I hear that stuff kicks some major ass!



Yes, Superdrone.  I have not tried it yet but I have read a lot of good about it.  The caps are from Fast Action Pharma, which I have tried before and liked them a lot.


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## BigBlackGuy (Aug 1, 2011)

CigarMan said:


> Yes, Superdrone.  I have not tried it yet but I have read a lot of good about it.  The caps are from Fast Action Pharma, which I have tried before and liked them a lot.



Superdrone was great... best SD I've taken.  Of course, it was also the first  lol


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## HereToStudy (Aug 2, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> Superdrone was great... best SD I've taken.  Of course, it was also the first  lol



I have a bottle, not sure if I will ever use it though. It does look good on the supp shelf though


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## BigBlackGuy (Aug 2, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> I have a bottle, not sure if I will ever use it though. It does look good on the supp shelf though



Yes it does.  I'm crazy and run methyl anything... kicking the habit soon I swear...


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## HereToStudy (Aug 3, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> Yes it does.  I'm crazy and run methyl anything... kicking the habit soon I swear...



I am betting you reach for your fix soon


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## ryansm (Aug 4, 2011)

CigarMan said:


> Phera was my favorite for size gains.  I had no problem with sides until I took 3 caps (45mgs) and then the back pumps got me really bad.  I was almost finishing off a second gallon of water a day and the pumps still kicked my ass.
> 
> 
> Reading the post here reminded me how I liked the phera and SD cycles that I did.  Within 2 weeks I had lots of people making comments on my size gains from the phera.  Taking some test prop while running a short 4-6 week cycle of phera seems like it would make a great cycle.  Luckily, I stocked up on phera and tren (Estra-4,9-diene-3,17-dione/19-Norandrosta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione).  The phera being awesome for size and the "tren" being great for strength.  I only have a couple of SD containers, one a liquid (PP) and the other caps.  With all of the stuff that I got from the EK DP email sale, I could create some interesting short cycles.


You staked SD and Phera? I couldn't do this, two strong methyls and my HDL/LDL would be obliterated, not too mention the liver issues. Oen of the Reasons AndroMass is so great being low in sides.


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## BigBlackGuy (Aug 4, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> I am betting you reach for your fix soon



lol BTW I settled on throwing out the MT and going Test/Androhard/maybe a low dose of t3.


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## Digitalash (Aug 4, 2011)

CigarMan said:


> Phera was my favorite for size gains. I had no problem with sides until I took 3 caps (45mgs) and then the back pumps got me really bad. I was almost finishing off a second gallon of water a day and the pumps still kicked my ass.
> 
> 
> Reading the post here reminded me how I liked the phera and SD cycles that I did. Within 2 weeks I had lots of people making comments on my size gains from the phera. Taking some test prop while running a short 4-6 week cycle of phera seems like it would make a great cycle. Luckily, I stocked up on phera and tren (Estra-4,9-diene-3,17-dione/19-Norandrosta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione). The phera being awesome for size and the "tren" being great for strength. I only have a couple of SD containers, one a liquid (PP) and the other caps. With all of the stuff that I got from the EK DP email sale, I could create some interesting short cycles.


 

I'd like to try phera again for sure. I can't see anything being that much better for gaining size, never tried drol but it sounds like the sides are pretty bad in comparison. 

A short cycle with phera/test sounds pretty good, maybe extend the cycle with two weeks of tren ace and hopefully solidify some of the gains from the phera. Not sure whether it's just a water/glycogen retention thing but the phera gains seemed hard to keep compared to something like test. /broscience


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## HereToStudy (Aug 4, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> lol BTW I settled on throwing out the MT and going Test/Androhard/maybe a low dose of t3.



Ahh, ok... Interested on how you like this cycle.


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## BigBlackGuy (Aug 5, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> Ahh, ok... Interested on how you like this cycle.



It should work out well.  I want to get intra-cycle BW, test my E2 levels make sure they aren't too high.  I'd like to see how well AH does at combating E2 with lower dosed test (350mg per week).  I do have letro on hand.


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## ryansm (Aug 6, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> It should work out well.  I want to get intra-cycle BW, test my E2 levels make sure they aren't too high.  I'd like to see how well AH does at combating E2 with lower dosed test (350mg per week).  I do have letro on hand.



Pinning, or TD with the test?


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## HereToStudy (Aug 7, 2011)

Nice. I have been going back and forth between using AndroHard on my next cycle or Aromasin.


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## ryansm (Aug 8, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> Nice. I have been going back and forth between using AndroHard on my next cycle or Aromasin.



Just keep the exem on hand imo


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## HereToStudy (Aug 8, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Just keep the exem on hand imo



Might be what I end up doing. Saw some bloodwork showing Hard to be quite effective in keeping estrogen at bay and it adds to the cycle.


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## BigBlackGuy (Aug 9, 2011)

I actually have switched to AM, just ordered a bottle. I want to be able to run a methyl later on in the cycle and instead of overtaxing my heart/liver/kidneys, I've decided to take the safer/more expensive route.


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## ryansm (Aug 9, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> I actually have switched to AM, just ordered a bottle. I want to be able to run a methyl later on in the cycle and instead of overtaxing my heart/liver/kidneys, I've decided to take the safer/more expensive route.



Chose AM over Ultradrol? Good choice imo


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## HereToStudy (Aug 9, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> I actually have switched to AM, just ordered a bottle. I want to be able to run a methyl later on in the cycle and instead of overtaxing my heart/liver/kidneys, I've decided to take the safer/more expensive route.



In the long run, I think you made a good choice. I'd wait to see UD bloodwork first.


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## BigBlackGuy (Aug 10, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> In the long run, I think you made a good choice. I'd wait to see UD bloodwork first.



Yah.  If I do end up throwing a methyl in, it will be var or OT.


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## HereToStudy (Aug 10, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> Yah.  If I do end up throwing a methyl in, it will be var or OT.



Ran OT, was happy with it, but definitely should have dosed it higher. My next cycle which will also include test is going to close out with high dosed var.


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## ryansm (Aug 11, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> Ran OT, was happy with it, but definitely should have dosed it higher. My next cycle which will also include test is going to close out with high dosed var.



Going big, any kicker?


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## HereToStudy (Aug 11, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Going big, any kicker?



Currently playing with ideas. Like the idea of AndroHard on the cycle (will be doing a mini run of it solo to see what I think), also have some dbol around here somewhere


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## ryansm (Aug 13, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> Currently playing with ideas. Like the idea of AndroHard on the cycle (will be doing a mini run of it solo to see what I think), also have some dbol around here somewhere



Go with the dbol


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## HereToStudy (Aug 14, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Go with the dbol



You are officially the devil on my shoulder


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## ryansm (Aug 15, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> You are officially the devil on my shoulder



lol, you will love it


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## BigBlackGuy (Aug 15, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> Currently playing with ideas. Like the idea of AndroHard on the cycle (will be doing a mini run of it solo to see what I think), also have some dbol around here somewhere



I thought the idea was to only run the AH as a sort of bridge


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## HereToStudy (Aug 15, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> I thought the idea was to only run the AH as a sort of bridge



Ha, i'm not bridging into the new cycle. AndroHard is on its way and should be here in a couple days. If I love it, it will be added to the cycle.


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## BigBlackGuy (Aug 19, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> Ha, i'm not bridging into the new cycle. AndroHard is on its way and should be here in a couple days. If I love it, it will be added to the cycle.



I guess I meant a bridge... with gaps... lol

Anything that doesn't follow the time on+pct=time off just gets lumped into bridge area for me when I type.  But I see what you're doing.


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## ryansm (Aug 20, 2011)

No better time then now to try AndroMass as a kickstart to a test cycle, BOGO going on at our site


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## HereToStudy (Aug 21, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> I guess I meant a bridge... with gaps... lol
> 
> Anything that doesn't follow the time on+pct=time off just gets lumped into bridge area for me when I type.  But I see what you're doing.



Definitely true. Been on for a couple days, doing 8 caps so two bottles are used up in 6 weeks.


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## ryansm (Aug 22, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> Definitely true. Been on for a couple days, doing 8 caps so two bottles are used up in 6 weeks.



Keep us updated


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## HereToStudy (Aug 22, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Keep us updated



Will do, I should have a good idea of how I will like this cycle within the next week.


----------



## OnPoint88 (Aug 28, 2011)

From my experience PheraPlex was the best! Compared to Dbol and M1T Phera doesn't aromatize and technically is a methyltest with the Dbol Euphoria and not as much bloat. Most people also don't know that Phera frees up more Test on a Test cycle. I also experience instant strength increases like Halotestin which I'm sure is more toxic. My pumps were like balloons that made me look disproportioned after a set. I would love to see a UGL producing this as it would be so affordable and would make harsh Tren cycles more fun.


----------



## ryansm (Aug 29, 2011)

OnPoint88 said:


> From my experience PheraPlex was the best! Compared to Dbol and M1T Phera doesn't aromatize and technically is a methyltest with the Dbol Euphoria and not as much bloat. Most people also don't know that Phera frees up more Test on a Test cycle. I also experience instant strength increases like Halotestin which I'm sure is more toxic. My pumps were like balloons that made me look disproportioned after a set. I would love to see a UGL producing this as it would be so affordable and would make harsh Tren cycles more fun.



I have to agree Phera has been my favorite but that may change with methylsten which so far is great.


----------



## Digitalash (Aug 29, 2011)

I would definitely buy up some phera if UGL's started making it. I know one that makes superdrol and that shit's still legal wtf?


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## HereToStudy (Aug 29, 2011)

Digitalash said:


> I would definitely buy up some phera if UGL's started making it. I know one that makes superdrol and that shit's still legal wtf?



I actually am shocked at how long SD has avoided the ban list. Especially since their are published medical case report specifically on it's sides: SpringerLink - Digestive Diseases and Sciences, Volume 54, Number 5


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## Rodja (Aug 30, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> I actually am shocked at how long SD has avoided the ban list. Especially since their are published medical case report specifically on it's sides: SpringerLink - Digestive Diseases and Sciences, Volume 54, Number 5



Negative press on SD has been around since '06 (in the freaking Washington Post nonetheless).  I assumed that it was the main reason for the newest legislation, but I was wrong.


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## ryansm (Aug 30, 2011)

It's weird, and I can tell you it is the most abused


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## henryv (Sep 1, 2011)

Peyot said:


> Yes. I know that Alpha One is said to be the precursor to M1T, but I'd have to ask Brymaster or henryv if it's the prohormone to it.



Yes, I believe so.


----------



## Peyot (Sep 1, 2011)

OnPoint88 said:


> From my experience PheraPlex was the best! Compared to Dbol and M1T Phera doesn't aromatize and technically is a methyltest with the Dbol Euphoria and not as much bloat. Most people also don't know that Phera frees up more Test on a Test cycle. I also experience instant strength increases like Halotestin which I'm sure is more toxic. My pumps were like balloons that made me look disproportioned after a set. I would love to see a UGL producing this as it would be so affordable and would make harsh Tren cycles more fun.


 

It's certainly not out of the question. In fact there was a sponsor on PM selling some liquid Phera which I was assured was quite good. Unfortunately, right about the time I heard about it, the outfit stopped taking new accounts


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## ryansm (Sep 3, 2011)

Peyot said:


> It's certainly not out of the question. In fact there was a sponsor on PM selling some liquid Phera which I was assured was quite good. Unfortunately, right about the time I heard about it, the outfit stopped taking new accounts



Good to see it's still around


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## HereToStudy (Sep 11, 2011)

I think Ultradrol might be a new addition to this kickstart list.


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## Rodja (Sep 12, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> I think Ultradrol might be a new addition to this kickstart list.



Definitely.


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## ryansm (Sep 12, 2011)

Ya, it's my new favorite


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## HereToStudy (Sep 12, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Ya, it's my new favorite



Did you get your bloodwork back?


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## BigBlackGuy (Sep 16, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> Did you get your bloodwork back?



He did, AST/ALT were up (double from baselines IIRC), that's at 16mg and no liver support.


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## Rodja (Sep 16, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> He did, AST/ALT were up (double from baselines IIRC), that's at 16mg and no liver support.



Still less toxic than a lot of the orals out there.


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## ryansm (Sep 17, 2011)

BigBlackGuy said:


> He did, AST/ALT were up (double from baselines IIRC), that's at 16mg and no liver support.



^^^This HDL was low as well


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## ryansm (Sep 17, 2011)

Rodja said:


> Still less toxic than a lot of the orals out there.



agreed, less toxic than SD or M1T


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## HereToStudy (Sep 18, 2011)

ryansm said:


> agreed, less toxic than SD or M1T



I think this is the takeaway. Product seems to give results of most toxic compounds, but is not quite as toxic. Precaution should still be applied though.


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## ryansm (Sep 19, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> I think this is the takeaway. Product seems to give results of most toxic compounds, but is not quite as toxic. Precaution should still be applied though.



Ya, I'm done with methyls though, I'll be sticking with AM. AH, and AB from now on. Especially after hearing a beta tester gained 12 pounds in two weeks off of AndroBulk


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## Rodja (Sep 19, 2011)

I still have some 'Var and half a bottle of UD, but that will probably be the end of my methyl journey.


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## HereToStudy (Sep 19, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Ya, I'm done with methyls though, I'll be sticking with AM. AH, and AB from now on. Especially after hearing a beta tester gained 12 pounds in two weeks off of AndroBulk



That is incredible.



Rodja said:


> I still have some 'Var and half a bottle of UD, but that will probably be the end of my methyl journey.



I have some var, UD, and dbol here. I planned on Dbol kicker and var closer on next cycle, but I think the UD took that dbol's place.


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## Hate4TheWeak (Sep 20, 2011)

Digitalash said:


> Don't know how anyone could run a legit phera clone and not love it. Better than dbol imo. 3 caps of the old 15mg p-plex and I was growing so fast it hardly made sense, and without any other AAS involved.
> 
> For the best results/sides ratio I'd have to go phera, I felt great on it and had some of the most insane pumps ever. I'd say it was a tiny bit wet but hardly the kind of bloat I get from dbol. SD or M1t might provide similar results but they're harshhh. Also phera is definitely better for mass than strength.


 I ran phera and thought it was total shit. I got more out of havoc than I did Madol. I will never touch that shit again. Irritated my nipps more than anything I have ever ran which would include eg. over 1500mgs of test ew stacked with 500mgs of tren ace and 60mgs of dbol, Dbol solo, TNE, prop, enath, cyp, and test decanoate, superdrol, havoc and various clones of it. Just my opinion and that's great for people that want to risk the heart problems with madol but for me it was shit.

Lets see, Madol decent size strength gains. Pro

This steriod binds highly to the androgen receptors in the heart (much more so than any other AAS, OTC or other wise.

Less effective than dbol by a long shot and has a good deal of progestin activity to boot.

More expensive than dbol and getting much harder to find. Cons


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## ryansm (Sep 20, 2011)

Never heard of the heart issues with Madol...


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## Digitalash (Sep 20, 2011)

I have but not until after I ran it. I still have no idea how severe it is if the doses are kept low and it's used infrequently, but I guess it's not something you want to risk anyway. With that said I still think phera was one of the best things I've ever run in terms of gains and side effects (not including possible heart growth lol), and definitely gives SD a run for it's money


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## HereToStudy (Sep 20, 2011)

I think this just shows how different everyone can react to the same compounds...


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## OnPoint88 (Sep 21, 2011)

I'm running dbol at 100mg ED now up from 50mg ED 1st week, from Avatar Labs, red capsules, and I'm a total nonresponder. They were left overs from a Board Rep that worked well for them but not for me. Now Phera and Halo I daydream about. Anyone wanna trade lol


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## Rodja (Sep 21, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Never heard of the heart issues with Madol...



It has been shown to cause HCM.


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## OnPoint88 (Sep 21, 2011)

Rodja said:


> It has been shown to cause HCM.


That has been said about gear in general and even HGH which specifically targets organs.


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## Rodja (Sep 21, 2011)

OnPoint88 said:


> That has been said about gear in general and even HGH which specifically targets organs.



I don't buy into the conventional belief that GH is responsible for major organ enlargement.  It's impossible to say which drug they're taking that leads to the enlarged abdomen, but androgens have been shown to increase VAT.

Madol is one of the few that actually has some data on it regarding its efficacy on the heart:
Characterisation of the pharmacological profile... [Toxicol Lett. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI


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## ryansm (Sep 21, 2011)

Wow, interesting I guess I should get rid of mine...


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## Digitalash (Sep 21, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Wow, interesting I guess I should get rid of mine...


 I might take it off your hands, just sayin


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## OnPoint88 (Sep 21, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Wow, interesting I guess I should get rid of mine...


I'll trade ya some dbol


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## gearin up (Sep 21, 2011)

as far as kickstarts go I would just stick to a safe oral thats been tried and true for decades like tbol or var. As far as liver profiles go they are very mild and there is no question on how well they work they have a 40 year track record. As far as the andro series goes if I wanted to pay 100s of dollars for dhea Id have it brought in by the truck load.


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## HereToStudy (Sep 21, 2011)

OnPoint88 said:


> I'll trade ya some dbol



Ha, this was nearly the expected follow up.


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## Rodja (Sep 22, 2011)

gearin up said:


> as far as kickstarts go I would just stick to a safe oral thats been tried and true for decades like tbol or var. As far as liver profiles go they are very mild and there is no question on how well they work they have a 40 year track record. As far as the andro series goes if I wanted to pay 100s of dollars for dhea Id have it brought in by the truck load.



As much as I love 'Var, I wouldn't choose it as a kickstart.


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## Hate4TheWeak (Sep 22, 2011)

Digitalash said:


> I have but not until after I ran it. I still have no idea how severe it is if the doses are kept low and it's used infrequently, but I guess it's not something you want to risk anyway. With that said I still think phera was one of the best things I've ever run in terms of gains and side effects (not including possible heart growth lol), and definitely gives SD a run for it's money


Yeah, I wish I hadn't touched it. Strength maybe, maybe went up a bit but I was in a shit mood 24/7 and I gained maybe 4-5lbs on the shit. The first time I ran SD I gained 9lbs in 11 days at 10mgs. Gained 16lbs off a solo run of epi and never went over 30 days or 40mgs ew.

Epi "could be" pretty closely related to phera according to PA. Try that if you haven't. I love the stuff, second only to tren ace imo. Has a great Q ratio, low sides, anti estro...can't beat it legally or otherwise imo




HereToStudy said:


> I think this just shows how different everyone can react to the same compounds...


 Absolutly brother^ Some guys can't take the sides from trenbolones........I love tren, and gain like nothing else on that stuff. By far my favorite substance....next to opiates lol..

It was weird, I had high hopes for Madol and I even knew about the left ventricular hypertrophy and it's binding affinty to androgen receptors in the heart and ran it based on what I thought was an informed choice at the time and it just totaly blew for me.

Everyone else but about 8-9 guys I have taked to on boards and shit loved it.....


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## HereToStudy (Sep 22, 2011)

Rodja said:


> As much as I love 'Var, I wouldn't choose it as a kickstart.



I agree. Based on the effects of var, it seems most would want to run it as a closer, imo.


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## kelsey_sean (Sep 23, 2011)

I have a bottle of Ultradrol, have a liver support and PCT lined up. How should I run this bottle, i was hoping 3 weeks but at what dosage? Any opinions?


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## btex34n88 (Sep 23, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Phera is my favorite oral steroid, SD makes me feel like death, M1T was great as well, but I had single digit HDL numbers to thank for it. I haven't ran AM yet, but considering the low sides it seems like a great choice.


 
I agree with you, back in my ph days phera was my favorite, i felt excellent on it and made great gains! I took m1t and it murdered my sex drive, would never take again


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## Rodja (Sep 23, 2011)

kelsey_sean said:


> I have a bottle of Ultradrol, have a liver support and PCT lined up. How should I run this bottle, i was hoping 3 weeks but at what dosage? Any opinions?



8mg was plenty for me.


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## beautifulpeople (Sep 23, 2011)

kelsey_sean said:


> I have a bottle of Ultradrol, have a liver support and PCT lined up. How should I run this bottle, i was hoping 3 weeks but at what dosage? Any opinions?


 
We don't have enough anecdotal data on it yet, but people seem to think 12mg is the sweet spot. 8 seems to be sufficient. I'd suggest 8 in week 1, 12 in week 2, and see how you're feeling at that point. I wouldn't discourage 16mg for an experienced user with several DS runs under his belt, strong support supps, AND who is getting bloods done. I'm kickstarting a Test/NPP with 12/16/16 UD and feeling pretty damn great.


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## kelsey_sean (Sep 23, 2011)

beautifulpeople said:


> We don't have enough anecdotal data on it yet, but people seem to think 12mg is the sweet spot. 8 seems to be sufficient. I'd suggest 8 in week 1, 12 in week 2, and see how you're feeling at that point. I wouldn't discourage 16mg for an experienced user with several DS runs under his belt, strong support supps, AND who is getting bloods done. I'm kickstarting a Test/NPP with 12/16/16 UD and feeling pretty damn great.


 
So what your sayin is run a 2 week cycle.. see where I'm at?
I liked SD, did really well for me, ran that on 3 week but didnt keep much of my gains on PCT unfortunately. from what I've read, it is easier to keep the results produced from UD after cycle. I'm not a big fan of Epistane, so I stopped taking that. thanks for the advice.


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## Rodja (Sep 24, 2011)

From some of the bloodwork that I've seen, NAC, silymarin, and TUDCA are needed for it.


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## gearin up (Sep 24, 2011)

Rodja said:


> As much as I love 'Var, I wouldn't choose it as a kickstart.


 I have kickstarted and finished with var. I guess it depnds on what youre looking for. Var gave me almost instant strength gains and a couple of pounds while I waited on the test e to bring the big muscle and It helped with that bloaty look through bulk. On advice I tried dbol on my next test cycle and it worked fine never looked quite as good through first part of my cycle til I closed with tbol (whos effects remind me a lot of var) Now my third I am back to var. If it aint broke.... I guess its a matter of preference.


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## ryansm (Sep 24, 2011)

beautifulpeople said:


> We don't have enough anecdotal data on it yet, but people seem to think 12mg is the sweet spot. 8 seems to be sufficient. I'd suggest 8 in week 1, 12 in week 2, and see how you're feeling at that point. I wouldn't discourage 16mg for an experienced user with several DS runs under his belt, strong support supps, AND who is getting bloods done. I'm kickstarting a Test/NPP with 12/16/16 UD and feeling pretty damn great.



I ran it up to 16 and had to drop back down to 12. I think 8 will be plenty for most.


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## beautifulpeople (Sep 25, 2011)

ryansm said:


> I ran it up to 16 and had to drop back down to 12. I think 8 will be plenty for most.



Did you, Ryan? What do you day the noticeable differences were between 12 and 16? Yesterday was my first day at 16, but it was an off-training day. I should get a better impression of it today. Was yours the PHF log?


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## HereToStudy (Sep 25, 2011)

beautifulpeople said:


> Did you, Ryan? What do you day the noticeable differences were between 12 and 16? Yesterday was my first day at 16, but it was an off-training day. I should get a better impression of it today. Was yours the PHF log?



He had one on AM for sure, not sure if PHF as well. I followed along and believe he mentioned increased night sweats from 16mg dose.


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## fit4life (Sep 30, 2011)

was going to try a run at superdrol is this compound a steroid or prohormone, is it more effective then d-ball (pinkies)? Thank You in advance.  I have used anadrol 50mgs many times.  do they make androl at 100mgs and call it superdrol?


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## longworthb (Sep 30, 2011)

it is a ph. I got me some prostanivar today which is 15 SD and 25 hdrol I'm going to run with my test e cycle to get things going. its drier gains then dbol so I guess its prefference.


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## fit4life (Oct 1, 2011)

thanks for reply longworthb, superdrol is 3x's stronger than masteron hits hard and fast great for kick starting cycles. its a synthetic designer steroid. But has harsh side effects.  I read up on it from a primordial performance. Never tried Superdrol.


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## fit4life (Oct 1, 2011)

anyone help me with some reps please,lol?


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## heckler7 (Oct 1, 2011)

testfreak said:


> thanks for reply longworthb, superdrol is 3x's stronger than masteron hits hard and fast great for kick starting cycles. its a synthetic designer steroid. But has harsh side effects. I read up on it from a primordial performance. Never tried Superdrol.


PP's SD was some strong stuff very hard to keep the gains tho.


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## HereToStudy (Oct 2, 2011)

heckler7 said:


> PP's SD was some strong stuff very hard to keep the gains tho.



This seems to be a characteristic common with SD users. It would best be run as a kicker for something longer, such as our AndroMass product or test.


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## Ezskanken (Oct 2, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> This seems to be a characteristic common with SD users. It would best be run as a kicker for something longer, such as our AndroMass product or test.



Don't mean to jack your thread BBG, but with what's said above...is it better to run the the more toxic ph at a lower dose (superdrone) before a less toxic one (turinabol) at full dose, or vis versa?


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## ryansm (Oct 3, 2011)

beautifulpeople said:


> Did you, Ryan? What do you day the noticeable differences were between 12 and 16? Yesterday was my first day at 16, but it was an off-training day. I should get a better impression of it today. Was yours the PHF log?



I was over stimulated at 16mgs, couldn't sleep and my BP spiked a bit


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## ryansm (Oct 3, 2011)

Ezskanken said:


> Don't mean to jack your thread BBG, but with what's said above...is it better to run the the more toxic ph at a lower dose (superdrone) before a less toxic one (turinabol) at full dose, or vis versa?



My bloods on SD were bad even at 10mgs, my recommendation is to go with something non-methylated for longer periods. Something like AndroMass over an 8 week period in which people report 12+ pounds gained.


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## Ezskanken (Oct 3, 2011)

ryansm said:


> My bloods on SD were bad even at 10mgs, my recommendation is to go with something non-methylated for longer periods. Something like AndroMass over an 8 week period in which people report 12+ pounds gained.



Thanks man.  I just a thread where a guy bridged the two both at low doses.  He never finished the log so I don't know what happened after he finished if he did.  When I run the sd it will be at 10 mgs as well stacked with Dermacrine LV and n2gaurd along with liver juice while on.  PP TRS pct will follow.  Thanks again for the reply with your experience on sd.  I don't think I will be kick starting sd with tbol any time soon or ever...


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## HereToStudy (Oct 3, 2011)

Ezskanken said:


> Thanks man.  I just a thread where a guy bridged the two both at low doses.  He never finished the log so I don't know what happened after he finished if he did.  When I run the sd it will be at 10 mgs as well stacked with Dermacrine LV and n2gaurd along with liver juice while on.  PP TRS pct will follow.  Thanks again for the reply with your experience on sd.  I don't think I will be kick starting sd with tbol any time soon or ever...



Yeah, the only time I am a fan of multiple methyls is when they are separated with a good amount of time in between when running a longer non-methylated or injectable cycle.


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## ryansm (Oct 4, 2011)

Ezskanken said:


> Thanks man.  I just a thread where a guy bridged the two both at low doses.  He never finished the log so I don't know what happened after he finished if he did.  When I run the sd it will be at 10 mgs as well stacked with Dermacrine LV and n2gaurd along with liver juice while on.  PP TRS pct will follow.  Thanks again for the reply with your experience on sd.  I don't think I will be kick starting sd with tbol any time soon or ever...



No problem bud, I always get bloods and I think people would be surprised at just how toxic these orals can be.


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## HereToStudy (Oct 4, 2011)

ryansm said:


> No problem bud, I always get bloods and I think people would be surprised at just how toxic these orals can be.



Yep, even some of the ones touted as "mild". It is why one must know the compound they are considering using, and make sure to monitor health.


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## djm6464 (Oct 5, 2011)

gearin up said:


> I have kickstarted and finished with var. I guess it depnds on what youre looking for. Var gave me almost instant strength gains and a couple of pounds while I waited on the test e to bring the big muscle and It helped with that bloaty look through bulk. On advice I tried dbol on my next test cycle and it worked fine never looked quite as good through first part of my cycle til I closed with tbol (whos effects remind me a lot of var) Now my third I am back to var. If it aint broke.... I guess its a matter of preference.




im with you.....var or tbol to open and close....i prefer my gains nice and lean/hard.....strength will come anyway

of those original options....never did phera, wont ever sd, liked m1t but that was years ago, n didnt do bloods.....meh i guess andromass by default, altho it sounds more like a eq type compound in effects


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## HereToStudy (Oct 5, 2011)

djm6464 said:


> im with you.....var or tbol to open and close....i prefer my gains nice and lean/hard.....strength will come anyway
> 
> of those original options....never did phera, wont ever sd, liked m1t but that was years ago, n didnt do bloods.....meh i guess andromass by default, altho it sounds more like a eq type compound in effects



tbol was alright for me, although I ran it way too low. Very much looking forward to the var next time, especially with balls to the wall dosing of it.


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## Rodja (Oct 6, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> tbol was alright for me, although I ran it way too low. Very much looking forward to the var next time, especially with balls to the wall dosing of it.



Bring your checkbook for it (unless you can get powder).


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## ryansm (Oct 6, 2011)

djm6464 said:


> im with you.....var or tbol to open and close....i prefer my gains nice and lean/hard.....strength will come anyway
> 
> of those original options....never did phera, wont ever sd, liked m1t but that was years ago, n didnt do bloods.....meh i guess andromass by default, altho it sounds more like a eq type compound in effects



The new AndroMass will be a different animal


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## HereToStudy (Oct 6, 2011)

Rodja said:


> Bring your checkbook for it (unless you can get powder).



It just might be sitting in my closet waiting for me already....


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## Rodja (Oct 7, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> It just might be sitting in my closet waiting for me already....


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## HereToStudy (Oct 9, 2011)

Rodja said:


>



Thats my expression every time I open the closet


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## Rodja (Oct 10, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> Thats my expression every time I open the closet



I have a similar expression


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## HereToStudy (Oct 10, 2011)

Rodja said:


> I have a similar expression



 Id fall into uncontrollable joy if i had your stash.


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## Rodja (Oct 10, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> Id fall into uncontrollable joy if i had your stash.



I won't be adding to it for awhile, though.


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## HereToStudy (Oct 11, 2011)

Rodja said:


> I won't be adding to it for awhile, though.



My stash (which is more supplements than hormonals) has dwindled quickly, and I have slowed on my purchasing as well, it's always sad to see things go.


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## djm6464 (Oct 14, 2011)

my stash lately is staples, as the years have passed my list of go to supps has dwindled so i usually have the same shit here all the time, just in bulk


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## Rodja (Oct 14, 2011)

djm6464 said:


> my stash lately is staples, as the years have passed my list of go to supps has dwindled so i usually have the same shit here all the time, just in bulk



That's where I'm at currently.  When I'm natty, I don't use much outside of protein, BA, and a pre-WO.


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## ryansm (Oct 15, 2011)

Sometimes I go on a complete dry spell, but I always use protein, fish oil, and a multi.


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## HereToStudy (Oct 16, 2011)

ryansm said:


> Sometimes I go on a complete dry spell, but I always use protein, fish oil, and a multi.



Yeah I think in general I always have on hand protein, creatine, toco-8, multi, vitamin d, and Beta Alanine.


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## djm6464 (Oct 17, 2011)

protein (iso, map), creatine (con-cret), zma, vitD3

nowadays tho, just my prewo is

3g con-cret
4.5g gplc
cursed/beta-cret (prewo)
atomic7 (intrawo)
sarms s4
endoamp max (2scoops)

^^^thats prewo.......i fkn take less when im on


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## Rodja (Oct 17, 2011)

What;s your take on S4?


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## HereToStudy (Oct 17, 2011)

Still loving that cursed I see..

Nice to see some primordial products in that list.


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## djm6464 (Oct 19, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> Still loving that cursed I see..
> 
> Nice to see some primordial products in that list.




1-2xwk not more than that....not a huge 1,3D fan, but hard to argue with the workouts

im liking beta-cret more tho.....same energy and 'push' minus the geranium



Rodja said:


> What;s your take on S4?




i dunno bout solo, it is mild comparatively speaking, however

75mg s4 ed
3g con-cret ed

^^^^ trumps any ph cycle iv done, im tight and hard as if i was on,  pumps are unbelievable (high volume training tho,lighter weight), tad  leaner, very vascular.....SIDE FKN FREE......very very minor green tint  to headlights at night, outside of that nada

i think i might grab a 3rd bottle, with the gw stuff, to end my run

im liking sarms as of right now.....im a less is more person, and they are solid......that is until im 'really on'


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## Rodja (Oct 19, 2011)

My vision is already getting comparatively worse than when I was young, so the prospect of even slightly altered vision keeps me away from it.


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## HereToStudy (Oct 19, 2011)

Rodja said:


> My vision is already getting comparatively worse than when I was young, so the prospect of even slightly altered vision keeps me away from it.



Its a scary side for sure...


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## Rodja (Oct 20, 2011)

HereToStudy said:


> Its a scary side for sure...



I'm sure the years of sparring has had something to do with it.  Hell, I'm currently sporting some nice eye shadow on my right eye.


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## HereToStudy (Oct 20, 2011)

Rodja said:


> I'm sure the years of sparring has had something to do with it.  Hell, I'm currently sporting some nice eye shadow on my right eye.



I can imagine. I used to want to get into MMA for a bit, but being in business figured I couldn't hold a job with the MMA punched up look.


----------

