# Why Use Both Clomid and Nolvadex Together for PCT?



## Arnold (Apr 22, 2010)

*Ask Michael Scally: Why Use Both Clomid and Nolvadex Together for  PCT?*

_*Question: 
I have read that Clomid and  Novadex are very similar products. Is this true? If so why would you  need to take both?*_

*Answer: *
The  administration of antiestrogens  is a common treatment because anti estrogens interfere with the normal  negative feedback of sex steroids at hypothalamic and pituitary levels  in order to increase endogenous gonadotropin-releasing hormone secretion  from the hypothalamus and FSH and LH secretion directly from the  pituitary. In turn, FSH and LH stimulate Leydig cells in the testes, and  this has been claimed to lead to increased local testosterone  production, thereby boosting spermatogenesis with a possible improvement  in fertility. There may also be a direct effect of antiestrogens on  testicular spermatogenesis or steroidogenesis.

Clomiphene  is a synthetic derivative an estrogen. Clomid  is a mixed agonist/antagonist for the estradiol receptor. Tamoxifen  is a pure estradiol receptor antagonist. Clomid acts as an estrogen,  rather than an antiestrogen, by sensitizing pituitary cells to the  action of GnRH. Although tamoxifen is almost as effective as Clomid in  binding to pituitary estrogen receptors, tamoxifen has little or no  estrogenic activity in terms of its ability to enhance the  GnRH-stimulated release of LH. The estrogenic action of Clomid at the  pituitary represents a unique feature of this compound and that  tamoxifen may be devoid of estrogenic activity at the pituitary level.[/LEFT]
Perusal of the literature thus indicates  that clomiphene acts in several ways in the human male; (a) due to its  similarity of structure to stilbesterol it binds with receptor sites in  the hypothalamus and pituitary, (b) It stimulates gonadotrophin  secretion by acting on the hypothalamo-hypophyseal system, (c) the  inhibitory effects of high levels of circulating estrogens (produced  under the influence of clomiphene) on hypothalamo-hypophyseal axis are  possibly prevented by its potent antiestrogenic behaviour. The result of  these varied effects of clomiphene is an overall increase in  gonadotrophin and estrogen secretion and accounts for their increase  under clinical conditions.

In one study the administration of  tamoxifen, 20 mg/day for 10 days, to normal males produced a moderate  increase in luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone  (FSH), testosterone, and estradiol levels, comparable to the effect of  150 mg of clomiphene citrate (Clomid). Treatment of patients with  ???idiopathic??? oligospermia for 6 to 9 months resulted in a significant  increase in gonadotropin, testosterone, and estradiol levels.

Cochran database summary showed ten studies  involving 738 men were included. Five of the trials did not specify  method of randomization. Antiestrogens had a positive effect on  endocrinal outcomes, such as serum testosterone levels. Antiestrogens  appear to have a beneficial effect on endocrinal outcomes, but there is  not enough evidence to evaluate the use of antiestrogens for increasing  the fertility of males with idiopathic oligo-asthenospermia.

In the over one-thousand patients I have  treated for HPTA normalization after AAS cessation i have used the  combination of clomiphene citrate and tamoxifen. I have used clomiphene  citrate alone in many cases. I added tamoxifen to the protocol to see if  I could get a better clinical response. This seemed to be the case  although I have not had the opportunity to evaluate the data. When both  compounds are used the clomiphene citrate is discontinued first and the  tamoxifen is continued for 2 more weeks. as I stated in the post on hCG  injections it is imperative to be tested while on the medications.  thus one would be tested ~3-5 days before the tamoxifen expires. In the  1st stage described in the hCG post one tests for testosterone only. the  serum T level determines whether or not the hCG is halted. In the  typical situation the hCG is stopped and the CC & tamoxifen  continued. the lab tests at the end of the oral meds is LH & T.

*Source: Mesomorphosis.com*​


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## toothache (Apr 22, 2010)

Good read.....


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## WFC2010 (Apr 23, 2010)

i always use clomids+hcg


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