# Milk Thistle



## Curt James (Aug 24, 2010)

newbie2bb said:


> Curt am I wrong in doing milk thistle while on  cycle flushes gear out making less effective? Maybe I was taught wrong  milk thistle only during pct - can you enlighten me : thanks



Was planning on using milk thistle _while _taking Super-DMZ Rx and during my four-week PCT (along with some other products).

newbie2bb brought up some questions and I was hoping for some input here.

Will milk thistle make supplements and/or gear less effective if stacked with those products?

Thank you for your time.


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## heavyiron (Aug 24, 2010)

Curt James said:


> Was planning on using milk thistle _while _taking Super-DMZ Rx and during my four-week PCT (along with some other products).
> 
> newbie2bb brought up some questions and I was hoping for some input here.
> 
> ...


 You are going to use gear???


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## Curt James (Aug 24, 2010)

^No.

I'm asking for newbie2bb.

What _I'm _doing is partaking of a legal supplement courtesy of IronMagLabs, Super-DMZ Rx.

It's like vitamin C.

Honest.


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## Simply_Michael (Aug 24, 2010)

Ha curt beat me to it and funny Vit C. | still counts w your stuff to lol and I am being sent that stuff too


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## Flathead (Aug 24, 2010)

Curt James said:


> Was planning on using milk thistle _while _taking Super-DMZ Rx and during my four-week PCT (along with some other products).
> 
> newbie2bb brought up some questions and I was hoping for some input here.
> 
> ...


 

I'm not sure what it does when stacked up against other known supplements, but as far as gear's concerned, it dosen't seem to have any effect other than protecting your liver.


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## heavyiron (Aug 24, 2010)

Curt James said:


> ^No.
> 
> I'm asking for newbie2bb.
> 
> ...


There is limited evidence that milk thistle inhibits the androgen receptor, however its a high concentration in-vitro study on a prostate cell line.. this may not be transmittable to milk thistle supplemention and muscle growth in man. If you want liver support then use Liv-52 as it has not been shown to interfere with any AR to my knowledge.

*Silymarin inhibits function of the androgen receptor by reducing nuclear localization of the receptor in the human prostate cancer cell line LNCaP *

*Wen Zhu, Jin-San Zhang and Charles Y.F. Young,1 *[SIZE=-1]Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology and Department of Urology, Mayo Graduate School, Mayo Clinic/Foundation, Rochester, MN 55905, USA [/SIZE]

A number of reports have shown that the polyphenolic flavonoid silymarin (SM) is an effective anticancer agent. Agents with novel mechanisms of blocking androgen receptor (AR) function may be useful for prostate cancer prevention and therapy. Previous studies showed that silibinin (SB), the major active component of SM, could inhibit cell proliferation of a human prostate cancer cell line, LNCaP, by arresting the cell cycle at the G1 phase without causing cell death. This study further delineates the potential molecular mechanism by which SM and SB exhibit antiproliferative effects on androgen-responsive prostate cancer cells by inhibiting function of the AR. We observed that SM and SB inhibited androgen-stimulated cell proliferation as well as androgen-stimulated secretion of both prostate-specific antigen (PSA) and human glandular kallikrein (hK2). Additionally, for the first time, we show that an immunophilin, FKBP51, is androgen regulated and that this up-regulation is suppressed by SM and SB. We further demonstrate that transactivation activity of the AR was diminished by SM and SB using gene transfer of PSA promoter and hK2 androgen-responsive element constructs. However, expression and steroid-binding ability of total AR were not affected by SM in western blotting and ligand-binding assays. Intriguingly, we found that nuclear AR levels are significantly reduced by SM and SB in the presence of androgens using western blotting assay and immunocytochemical staining. This study provides a new insight into how SM and SB negatively modulate androgen action in prostate cancer cells. 

Full text at Silymarin inhibits function of the androgen receptor by reducing nuclear localization of the receptor in the human prostate cancer cell line LNCaP -- Zhu et al. 22 (9): 1399 -- Carcinogenesis


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## Saney (Aug 24, 2010)

Weldingman swears by Milk Thistle and it doesn't effect his 700lb Bench Press..

Oh did i mention he's the Light and The Way?


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## unclem (Aug 24, 2010)

curt it should be fine.


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## unclem (Aug 25, 2010)

dont mean to high jack curt, just quick question. wats a good dosage for milk thistle? heavy, curt , anybody, i take 4g ed now but if on better than 2gr ewk gear?


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## Flathead (Aug 25, 2010)

unclem said:


> dont mean to high jack curt, just quick question. wats a good dosage for milk thistle? heavy, curt , anybody, i take 4g ed now but if on better than 2gr ewk gear?


 

I'm not Heavy or Curt, but it's reccomended that you do not take more than 4,000mg e/d.


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## unclem (Aug 25, 2010)

Flathead said:


> I'm not Heavy or Curt, but it's reccomended that you do not take more than 4,000mg e/d.


 
ok, so iam at maximum. thnx flat. i said or " anybody" at end. but thnx bro alot. ive been waiting for a answer. i dont know wats going on, i should of just looked on bottle your right it says dont exceed 4 times ed. wat the hells wrong with me dahh. lol.


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## XYZ (Aug 25, 2010)

unclem said:


> dont mean to high jack curt, just quick question. wats a good dosage for milk thistle? heavy, curt , anybody, i take 4g ed now but if on better than 2gr ewk gear?


 

WOW!  THAT IS A LOT of milk thistle.


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## Simply_Michael (Aug 25, 2010)

CT what u recommend


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## VictorZ06 (Aug 25, 2010)

I use it.  But I have never come across a concrete study that proves that it helps us in the manner we want it to.  Liv52 is the way to go.


/V


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## Supermans Daddy (Aug 25, 2010)

VictorZ06 said:


> I use it.  But I have never come across a concrete study that proves that it helps us in the manner we want it to.  Liv52 is the way to go.
> 
> 
> /V



I argee Homey !
Have you evr tried MRM - Biosorb??? Silymarin 250 mg - 60 Capsules

MRM - LiverX??? - 60 Capsules

I was a huge Liv 52 fan, till I tried these a few years back. I felt a noticable difference. But maybe it's just me besides what the hell would I know. lol


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## VictorZ06 (Aug 25, 2010)

Supermans Daddy said:


> I argee Homey !
> Have you evr tried MRM - Biosorb??? Silymarin 250 mg - 60 Capsules
> 
> MRM - LiverX??? - 60 Capsules
> ...




If my bro says it good stuff, I'm going to take his word on it.  Never tried the it but am going to try and get some real soon.  Hope all is well!



/V


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## Flathead (Aug 25, 2010)

Supermans Daddy said:


> I argee Homey !
> Have you evr tried MRM - Biosorb??? Silymarin 250 mg - 60 Capsules
> 
> MRM - LiverX??? - 60 Capsules
> ...


 

I've actually got 2 bottles of the LiverX coming, I wonder who reccomended it????????


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## Saney (Aug 25, 2010)

VictorZ06 said:


> I use it.  But I have never come across a concrete study that proves that it helps us in the manner we want it to.  Liv52 is the way to go.
> 
> 
> /V



Do you "ONLY" use Liv 52?

I have some and i only use 2 tabs a day of the Double Strength version. I also take about 800mgs of NAC and Milk Thistle


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## unclem (Aug 25, 2010)

ok i got it 300 to 500mg ed is recomended. thnx for the help.


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## Curt James (Aug 26, 2010)

VictorZ06 said:


> *I use it.*  But I have never come across a concrete study that proves that it helps us in the manner we want it to.  *Liv52 is the way to go.*
> 
> 
> /V



Did you read that abstract heavyiron posted?

Ordered a bottle of Liv-52 online last night. 



unclem said:


> ok i got it *300 to 500mg ed is recomended.* thnx for the help.



Of milk thistle?


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## unclem (Aug 27, 2010)

^^^yeah curt, is that to low. i just assumed since my liver is so good with it i would take the max recommened dose, which is 4gr. but 3- 800mg now?


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## Curt James (Aug 27, 2010)

^^^I don't know. 

The bottle I have offers this suggested use:

As a dietary supplement, take 1 to 2 capsules three times daily with water before meals or as directed by your physician.

That's 500mg capsules, so _their _max recommended or _suggested _dosage would be, what, 3000mg or 3 grams every day, right?

Saw 1500mg somewhere but lost the cite or link. 

But then heavyiron posted the article or abstract stating that milk thistle lowers testosterone? Endogenous what?


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## unclem (Aug 27, 2010)

^^^^gotcha brother thnx.


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## Curt James (Aug 27, 2010)

^^^^Honestly, no clue, unclem. Hopefully someone else will chime in or you'll get a message from someone. I'm going to check out the other DMZ threads this weekend. See if anyone has outlined their planned PCT. 

I'm still just pre-loading milk thistle. lol

Waiting to receive my Liv-52, ordered recently.


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## unclem (Aug 27, 2010)

^^^iam just going to go with a few grams. because ive been on heavy doses and liver enzymes came back low about 2 weeks after drol 150mg cycle plus. but let me know wat u find out. thnx very much bro.


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## Curt James (Aug 28, 2010)

Received my LiverCare® today. On the label it states "U.S. version of Liv.52®"

I'll be continuing my milk thistle at 1500mg per day (one 500mg capsule a.m. and two 500mg capsules p.m.) and two Liv.52 capsules per day (one in the morning and one at bedtime).


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## racer10 (Aug 30, 2010)

Just protects your liver bro, no affect on the gear from everything I've researched.


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