# Do you go to church?



## god hand (Aug 4, 2005)

I what to know did any of you start going to church or stop to church and when you did tell how your life change for the good or worse. Is you one of those people that have a great life, but have nothing to do with religion? ETC.!


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## BritChick (Aug 4, 2005)

I can count the number of times I've been in a church on my two hands... hmmm, well plus a foot maybe.


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## GFR (Aug 4, 2005)

Was forced as most kids are to go to church............I was an altar boy for 3 years. I stopped going when I was 20, I have been a Atheist for 18 years now. The effect is very positive, I'm more accepting of all kinds of people now, made some good friends over the years that the church would not approve of.


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## redman12 (Aug 4, 2005)

I go every now and then, i should go more cause when i go i find it peaceful and relaxing. Then again my church is really easy going.


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## musclepump (Aug 4, 2005)

I go. I always feel good when I leave.


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## LAM (Aug 4, 2005)

quit going to church when I got my drivers license.  it was off to the arcade at the mall after that.  then my senior year in high school I didn't even have to fake it anymore.  only go into a church for weddings anymore.  no faith here


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## Arnold (Aug 4, 2005)

I despise organized religion, so no I do not go to church, unless it is a friend's wedding or something.


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## Nick+ (Aug 4, 2005)

I've not even been baptised! (irresponsible {?} parents!)      I go into old medieval churches as I like the atmosphere and old buildings/architecture. If I  were to become a christian (which I won't?) I'd become a Catholic.  There's a real heavy 'atmosphere' of belief(?) in some of those old churches, small wonder I suppose, when for 800years or more  'believers' have been praying there.      Hate modern churches, and some of these new types of Christianity.


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## WATTS (Aug 5, 2005)

ive been to church once in my life, when i was like 4 years old or around that age, went with my grandma. never been since. not one for religion


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## ATOMSPLTR (Aug 5, 2005)

Seems like everytime I find a church that I like, I end up moving away and cannot find another that felt as good.  I should go more, however, that doesn't make me a bad person.  I have a great relationship with HIM, and He with me.  What else matters?


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## THEUNIT(XXL) (Aug 5, 2005)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> I despise organized religion, so no I do not go to church, unless it is a friend's wedding or something.


Same over here man, there's just something not right about all these people going and doing weird shit in there and now you have this Scientology or whatever, I'm glad that I don't go to that shit.
and something I fiend very weird is that the bible was written by some priests, some time ago, and for some reason everybody thinks it's the truth.
I don't know, but I do know that at some point whether in ten or in a hundred years, I will see whats up there for real, and if I was wrong, so be it, than at least I chose it for my self and not forced on me by my parents or something like that.


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## MuscleM4n (Aug 5, 2005)

I was forced to go church till 16

Glad to say havn't been since! 

I am an athiest.

When i have children (hopefully) i will not force them to go to church and make it their own decision.


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## THEUNIT(XXL) (Aug 5, 2005)

MuscleM4n said:
			
		

> I was forced to go church till 16
> 
> Glad to say havn't been since!
> 
> ...


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## SkinnyMinny (Aug 5, 2005)

When I was little we went to church every Sunday but that stopped when I was about 10. I don't remember why we stopped going. Sometimes we will go on Christmas or Easter but that's it.  I never felt like I was forced to go, plus on Easter you got to meet the Easter bunny at church!!


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## Dale Mabry (Aug 5, 2005)

If by Church you mean Hooters for football then yes, I go to church alot.  If by Church you meant actual church, then I would have to lay down the big negative on that one.

I was baptized, I have been to 1 maybe 2 weddings in a church, and one christening.


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 5, 2005)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> I despise organized religion, so no I do not go to church, unless it is a friend's wedding or something.


 ...


I will go to the receptions, I won't set foot in a church, or temple or mosque
I will not vote for politicians who's opinion's follow religious guidance
I do not donate to charities who, use religious organizations to promote themselves

Religion, is a huge thorn in modern society

It fosters hatred and bigotry, and is culpable for a majority
of the worlds overpopulation

There is no need for religion, we have government now -


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## Witmaster (Aug 5, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> ...There is no need for religion, we have government now -


This could very well be one of the most terrifying notions anyone has ever posted in any forum.


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 5, 2005)

Witmaster said:
			
		

> This could very well be one of the most terrifying notions anyone has ever posted in any forum.


Sorry boss... 

It isn't knights of the round table anymore -


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## Witmaster (Aug 5, 2005)

Don't get me wrong.... Like Robert, I abhore "organized religion" as it is commonly seen today. I have a very strong faith in God but I don't subscribe to the legalistic and puritan "does and don'ts" that are so prevelant in the churches today.

My main reservation of your statement is that I feel it would imply that it would be OK for the government to banish religion. This is in direct conflict with the Bill of Rights that have established and sustained this Country through the years.

Freedom of Religion. It???s an undeniable right to ANYONE. The very notion that the Government could replace that right with itself is utterly terrifying to me.


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 5, 2005)

Witmaster said:
			
		

> Don't get me wrong.... Like Robert, I abhore "organized religion" as it is commonly seen today. I have a very strong faith in God but I don't subscribe to the legalistic and puritan "does and don'ts" that are so prevelant in the churches today.
> 
> My main reservation of your statement is that I feel it would imply that it would be OK for the government to banish religion. This is in direct conflict with the Bill of Rights that have established and sustained this Country through the years.
> 
> Freedom of Religion. It???s an undeniable right to ANYONE. The very notion that the Government could replace that right with itself is utterly terrifying to me.


No, No, No,  Not government banish religion...

Religion banished from government -YES
Religion out of the court system - YES

Government in charge of legal consequences stemming
from immoral, or wrong behavior in a *LOGICAL* way - YES

Freedom for *all* religions to be practiced within the confines of
majority deemed acceptable legal parameters - YES

Take my guns away from ME - ARE U FUCKIN NUTS? ...  (OOPS)







*Forget it, he's rolling.*


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## Minotaur (Aug 5, 2005)

I haven't been to church in over 10 years, except for weddings, funerals, baptisms.  Even then those were not in "my" church.  My whole family is Roman Catholic but I converted to Eastern Orthodox about 23 years ago.  I became as disillusioned with the EOC as I did with the RCC.  Personally I think what Christianity has become is nonsense and a hypocrisy.


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## shiznit2169 (Aug 5, 2005)

only for holidays and special occasions such as weddings


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## AnnaDTX (Aug 5, 2005)

I am Catholic . . but  I have been to a Baptist Church, which I liked.  I want to go to the new Lakewood Church here in Houston.


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 5, 2005)

AnnaDTX said:
			
		

> I am Catholic . . but I have been to a Baptist Church, which I liked. I want to go to the new Lakewood Church here in Houston.


Why not go to the park or somewhere nice???

You don't have to enslave yourself to sit in one of
those dungeons on a beautiful sunny Sunday - 

If you believe in god, go out and enjoy his world and thank him there,
don't sit idley in the house of man


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 5, 2005)

And if these words you do not heed 
Your pocketbook just kinda might recede 
When some man comes along and 
claims godly need 
He will clean you out right through your 
tweed 

That's right, remember there is a big 
difference between kneeling down 
and bending over... 

He's got twenty million dollars 
In his Heavenly Bank Account... 
All from those chumps who was 
Born again 
Oh yeah

He's got seven limousines 
And a private plane... 
All for the use of his 
Special Friends 
Oh yeah
He's got thousand-dollar suits 
And a Wembley Tie... 
Girls love to stroke it 
While he's on the phone 
Oh yeah, oh yeah 

At the House of Representatives 
He's a groovy guy... 
When he Gives Thanks 
He is not alone... 

He is dealin' 
He is really dealin' 
IRS Can't determine 
Where The Hook is 

It is easy with the Bible 
To pretend that 
You're in Show Biz 

They won't get him 
They will never get him 
For the naughty stuff 
That he did 

It is best in cases like this 
To pretend that 
You are stupid 

He's got Presidential Help 
All along the way 

He says the grace 
While the lawyers chew 
Oh yeah 
They sure do 

And the Govenors agree to say: 
"He's a lovely man!" 
He makes it easier for 
Them to screw 
All of you... 
Yes, that's true! 

'Cause he helps put The Fear of God 
In the Common Man 
Snatchin' up money 
Everywhere he can 
Oh yeah 


He's got twenty million dollars 
In his Heavenly Bank Account 
You ain't got nothin', people 
Thank the man...oh yeah

Whoever we are 
Wherever we're from 
We shoulda noticed by now 
Our behavior is dumb 
And if our chances 
Expect to improve 
It's gonna take a lot more 
Than tryin' to remove 
The other race 
Or the other whatever 
From the face 
Of the planet altogether 

They call it THE EARTH 
Which is a dumb kinda name 
But they named it right 
'Cause we behave the same... 
We are dumb all over 
Dumb all over, 
Yes we are 
Dumb all over, 
Near 'n far 
Dumb all over, 
Black 'n white 
People, we is not wrapped tight 

Nurds on the left 
Nurds on the right 
Religous fanatics 
On the air every night 
Sayin' the Bible 
Tells the story 
Makes the details 
Sound real gory 
'Bout what to do 
If the geeks over there 
Don't believe in the book 
We got over here 

You can't run a race 
Without no feet 
'N pretty soon 
There won't be no street 
For dummies to jog on 
Or doggies to dog on 
Religous fanatics 
Can make it be all gone 
(I mean it won't blow up 
'N disappear 
It'll just look ugly 
For a thousand years...) 

You can't run a country 
By a book of religion 
Not by a heap 
Or a lump or a smidgeon 
Of foolish rules 
Of ancient date 
Designed to make 
You all feel great 
While you fold, spindle 
And mutilate 
Those unbelievers 
From a neighboring state 

TO ARMS! TO ARMS! 
Hooray! That's great 
Two legs ain't bad 
Unless there's a crate 
They ship the parts 
To mama in 
For souvenirs: two ears (Get Down!) 
Not his, not hers, (but what the hey?) 
The Good Book says: 
("It gotta be that way!") 
But their book says: 
"REVENGE THE CRUSADES... 
With whips 'n chains 
'N hand grenades..." 
TWO ARMS? TWO ARMS? 
Have another and another 
Our God says: 
"There ain't no other!" 
Our God says 
"It's all okay!" 
Our God says 
"This is the way!" 

It says in the book: 
"Burn 'n destroy... 
'N repent, 'n redeem 
'N revenge, 'n deploy 
'N rumble thee forth 
To the land of the unbelieving scum on the other side 
'Cause they don't go for what's in the book 
'N that makes 'em BAD 
So verily we must choppeth them up 
And stompeth them down 
Or rent a nice French bomb 
To poof them out of existance
While leaving their real estate just where we need it 
To use again 
For temples in which to praise OUR GOD 
("Cause he can really take care of business!") 

And when his humble TV servant 
With humble white hair 
And humble glasses 
And a nice brown suit 
And maybe a blond wife who takes phone calls 
Tells us our God says 
It's okay to do this stuff 
Then we gotta do it, 
'Cause if we don't do it, 
We ain't gwine up to hebbin! 
(Depending on which book you're using at the 
time...Can't use theirs... it don't work 
...it's all lies...Gotta use mine...) 
Ain't that right? 
That's what they say 
Every night... 
Every day... 
Hey, we can't really be dumb 
If we're just following God's Orders 
Hey, let's get serious... 
God knows what he's doin' 
He wrote this book here 
An' the book says: 
He made us all to be just like Him," 
so... 
If we're dumb... 
Then God is dumb... 
(An' maybe even a little ugly on the side)


Some take the bible 
For what it's worth 
When it says that the meek 
Shall inherit the Earth 
Well, I heard that some sheik 
Has bought New Jersey last week 
'N you suckers ain't gettin' nothin' 
Is Hare Rama really wrong 
If you wander around 
With a napkin on 
With a bell on a stick 
An' your hair is all gone... 
(The geek shall inherit nothin') 

You say yer life's a bum deal 
'N yer up against the wall... 
Well, people, you ain't even got no 
Deal at all 
'Cause what they do 
In Washington 
They just takes care 
of NUMBER ONE 
An' NUMBER ONE ain't YOU 
You ain't even NUMBER TWO 

Those Jesus Freaks 
Well, they're friendly but 
The shit they believe 
Has got their minds all shut 
An' they don't even care 
When the church takes a cut 
Ain't it bleak when you got so much 
nothin' 
(So whaddya do) 
Eat that pork 
Eat that ham 
Laugh till ya choke 
On Billy Graham 
Moses, Aaron 'n Abraham... 
They're all a waste of time 
'N it's yer ass that's on the line 
(IT'S YER ASS THAT'S ON THE LINE) 

Do what you wanna 
Do what you will 
Just don't mess up 
Your neighbor's thrill 
'N when you pay the bill 
Kindly leave a little tip 
And help the next poor sucker 
On his one way trip...


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## Witmaster (Aug 5, 2005)

Interesting....

As I read through this thread I see people who are so apt to attack and castigate the Christian Faith by pointing out the follies of man.  I mean, come on guys.  Is it really a surprise to see mankind screwing something up?

Why not look to Christ instead?  I think if you really took the time to read and understand the life and ministry of Jesus you would discover he really isn't such a bad guy after all.


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## Witmaster (Aug 5, 2005)

AnnaDTX said:
			
		

> I am Catholic . . but I have been to a Baptist Church, which I liked. I want to go to the new Lakewood Church here in Houston.


You GO Girl!!!  Enjoy the assembly of your faith.  Let not your heart be hardened by the critics who accuse you of being "enslaved by religion".  We know who is truly free.


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## bio-chem (Aug 5, 2005)

Witmaster said:
			
		

> You GO Girl!!! Enjoy the assembly of your faith. Let not your heart be hardened by the critics who accuse you of being "enslaved by religion". We know who is truly free.


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 5, 2005)

Psychologically, Faith is simply "learned behavior"

I agree with most of the ethical and moral aspects of Chritstianity...

But, I don't believe a higher power exists to approve or disapprove these.

I think it boils down to one of the everday systems that humans have developed to operate under throughout their evolution, and all systems have their flaws


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## god hand (Aug 5, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> ...
> There is no need for religion, we have government now -


          Have u killed yourself yet?


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## god hand (Aug 5, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> And if these words you do not heed
> Your pocketbook just kinda might recede
> When some man comes along and
> claims godly need
> ...









I read like two words of that shit!


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 5, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> I read like two words of that shit


You should read it, you may have an epiphany


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## maniclion (Aug 5, 2005)

I went to churches alot as a kid, never really cared why or where.  One of them in Houston The First Baptist Church was so huge my friends and I would sneak away while our parents were in a trance and play racquet ball or ping pong in the game room they had the place was a monstrosity owned by one of those cults that gets the services televised so they can get offerings from people too scared to leave their living rooms.

 I'm not scared anymore.


 Ever spiked the holy water with LSD?


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## god hand (Aug 5, 2005)

maniclion said:
			
		

> I'm not scared anymore.
> 
> Ever spiked the holy water with LSD?


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## V Player (Aug 5, 2005)

Nope. Church aint for me, sorry.


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## god hand (Aug 5, 2005)

Now I see why there's so much conflict on this site. Everybody thinks they know everything. For example, "I dont need Jesus because I know everything!"


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## Arnold (Aug 5, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Now I see why there's so much conflict on this site. Everybody thinks they know everything. For example, "I dont need Jesus because I know everything!"



just don't forget that religeon has killed 100,000 times more people than cancer. (yes, I made that figure up, I am sure it is much higher)


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## Big Smoothy (Aug 5, 2005)

I don't like organized religion.

A lot of the New Testament was also written 300 years after Jesus' death. 


The more I studied and learned, the more confused I got. 

Lately, I've been on Islamic forums, and talking with Muslims about passages in the Quran and the interpretations.  Now, I am even more worried.


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## maniclion (Aug 5, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Now I see why there's so much conflict on this site. Everybody thinks they know everything. For example, "I dont need Jesus because I know everything!"


It's not that everyone thinks they know everything it's that they have different beliefs.  Most all of us can agree that the sky is blue cause we can see it but when it comes to theories and hypotheses it's harder to make a case.  All we have is circumstantial evidence like the Bible, Torah, Koran.  They were written by man, if God made man then yes they are all God's word channeled through his creation and all of them are right which causes a dilemna.  How do you solve that dilemna?  Easy just take what they all basically stand for "The Golden Rule" Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you"  You don't like others telling you how to live so don't tell others how to live unless it's causing danger to you or yours and not just moral danger, but real life threatening danger.  It's too simple really but man has a knack for complicating things so we end up in a conundrum.


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## bio-chem (Aug 6, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> Psychologically, Faith is simply "learned behavior"
> 
> I agree with most of the ethical and moral aspects of Chritstianity...
> 
> ...


i have to disagree with the thought that faith is a learned behaivior. the old maxim "there are no athiests in a foxhole" comes to mind.  God has placed within us a natural belief in a higher power, and a desire to learn of him. people do have the choice to reject Him and these feelings to learn about Him, and convince themselves there is no such thing as God, but that doesnt change what is.  if you put a group of people on an island without any outside contact, they would invariably create their own religion. this would be do to the fact that within them is a desire to understand that "higher power" and with no one to teach them they would bumble around making up their own explanations from their limited understanding.  that is why God uses the scriptures and prophets to teach his children. so those who wish to pursue the truth and not just make up their own beliefs may learn about God and the plan he has for us.


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## Arnold (Aug 6, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> if you put a group of people on an island without any outside contact, they would invariably create their own religion. this would be do to the fact that within them is a desire to understand that "higher power" and with no one to teach them they would bumble around making up their own explanations from their limited understanding.



they might, but the reason for doing so would be their natural desire to find meaning, people make up religeons because they need answers. the fact is no one has the answers, but religeous people find comfort in the answers that their religeon provides. I guess it gives them peace of mind to believe there is a higher power and a reason for their existence.


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## TheCurse (Aug 6, 2005)

religion is the opiate for the masses.


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## GFR (Aug 6, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> i have to disagree with the thought that faith is a learned behaivior. the old maxim "there are no athiests in a foxhole" comes to mind.  God has placed within us a natural belief in a higher power, and a desire to learn of him. people do have the choice to reject Him and these feelings to learn about Him, and convince themselves there is no such thing as God, but that doesnt change what is.  if you put a group of people on an island without any outside contact, they would invariably create their own religion. this would be do to the fact that within them is a desire to understand that "higher power" and with no one to teach them they would bumble around making up their own explanations from their limited understanding.  that is why God uses the scriptures and prophets to teach his children. so those who wish to pursue the truth and not just make up their own beliefs may learn about God and the plan he has for us.


This is just an opinion, no more or less valid then the monkey mans. I find both your beliefs interesting, but see no reason why one is more "true" than the other.


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## Nick+ (Aug 6, 2005)

I'm worried.


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## GFR (Aug 6, 2005)

Nick+ said:
			
		

> I'm worried.


Your eyes are red????? can it be you are a follower of the dark Lord?


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## Nick+ (Aug 6, 2005)

I'm wondering.........If so , it's the first I know about it!


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## maniclion (Aug 6, 2005)

Nick+ said:
			
		

> I'm worried.


Yes that orb of light in the top right corner by the arch looks ominous


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## Nick+ (Aug 6, 2005)

Note the owl shit on the floor of the church.
Outside of this church (photo of tower)





Were two dead (young?) {barn?}owls......






Any meaning in any of this?

Maniclion--that was (I hope) reflection on the lens.


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## THEUNIT(XXL) (Aug 6, 2005)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> they might, but the reason for doing so would be their natural desire to find meaning, people make up religeons because they need answers. the fact is no one has the answers, but religeous people find comfort in the answers that their religeon provides. I guess it gives them peace of mind to believe there is a higher power and a reason for their existence.


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## THEUNIT(XXL) (Aug 6, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> 
> I will go to the receptions, I won't set foot in a church, or temple or mosque
> ...


I hear you man, and  on the government statement, I know what you mean, and I agree 100000000% .


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 6, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> i have to disagree with the thought that faith is a learned behaivior. the old maxim "there are no athiests in a foxhole" comes to mind. God has placed within us a natural belief in a higher power, and a desire to learn of him. people do have the choice to reject Him and these feelings to learn about Him, and convince themselves there is no such thing as God, but that doesnt change what is. if you put a group of people on an island without any outside contact, they would invariably create their own religion. this would be do to the fact that within them is a desire to understand that "higher power" and with no one to teach them they would bumble around making up their own explanations from their limited understanding. that is why God uses the scriptures and prophets to teach his children. so those who wish to pursue the truth and not just make up their own beliefs may learn about God and the plan he has for us.


The only reason anyone even uses or seeks religion is because for the last couple THOUSAND years it has been beat into everyone???s heads


The leaders of every society needed to instill the fear of an unforgiving all powerful deity who will strike you down or banish you in some eternal afterlife, in order to control their populace


The various religious leaders became powerful allies of whatever monarchy or government had/has the most control, then in order to maintain control, they
wage war on anyone who does not agree with
or directly threatens their positions


God doesn't use scriptures or prophets... These asswipes make up those
teachings so that they can either have a claim to fame, or because they
are made to do so by the top dogs in the organization...



This is the same reason why Osama Bin Laden was supposedly a holy
man, and why if you want to stop rioting in Iraq, you don't call the police,
you request the assistance of some clerics


Do you jokers still believe that whole Adam and Eve story!?!? -  


Made from his rib!?!? -  


I worked with a Baptist guy who told us that Dinosaur fossils were
placed in the earth by Satan to fool man and disrupt the teachings
and word of god -  


Gimme a break!!! - That's rich!!! - Keep em' comin!?!? -  


Look at the facts... The USA is the very first truly free society and
we are only 224 years old, and when founded 90% of our people couldn't read or write!?

Religion has been around for over five thousand years...
I know I can't expect all of you to unlearn five thousand +
years of behavior right away -  


As humans progress technologically, more free thinking will come -  
I hope I am alive to see the day -


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## THEUNIT(XXL) (Aug 6, 2005)

Witmaster said:
			
		

> Interesting....
> 
> I think if you really took the time to read and understand the life and ministry of Jesus you would discover he really isn't such a bad guy after all.


So what?........ Is that any reason to change your entire lifestyle, way of eating(some religions) the way to dress, to act, to speak, No I don't think so.
I think you should be "good" anyway.or else it would give you an excuse to do bad in his name.


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## THEUNIT(XXL) (Aug 6, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> The only reason anyone even uses or seeks religion is because for the last couple THOUSAND years it has been beat into everyone???s heads
> 
> 
> The leaders of every society needed to instill the fear of an unforgiving all powerful deity who will strike you down or banish you in some eternal afterlife, in order to control their populace
> ...


HAHAHHA good post man!


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## Nick+ (Aug 6, 2005)

As humans progress technologically, more free thinking will come -


I doubt it


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 6, 2005)

=


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## Witmaster (Aug 6, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> =


Ok, that's a bit over the top and narrow sighted but, hey.. If that's your logical conclusion then I wish you all the best.

I just find it rather comical that you could compare a cannon of literature written and composed over the course of thousands of years to be equal to a symbol that represents completely random "luck" or happenstance. But then, I suppose you were probably aiming to drive a stake through the hearts of those who believe in the scriptures.


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## THEUNIT(XXL) (Aug 6, 2005)

Witmaster said:
			
		

> Ok, that's a bit over the top and narrow sighted but, hey.. If that's your logical conclusion then I wish you all the best.
> 
> I just find it rather comical that you could compare a cannon of literature written and composed over the course of thousands of years to be equal to a symbol that represents completely random "luck" or happenstance. But then, I suppose you were probably aiming to drive a stake through the hearts of those who believe in the scriptures.


If that's all that it takes...........


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 6, 2005)

Witmaster said:
			
		

> I just find it rather comical that you could compare a cannon of literature written and composed over the course of thousands of years to be equal to a symbol that represents completely random "luck" or happenstance


Point taken...
It is only equal to a good luck charm, if it is allowed to be used as such -


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## min0 lee (Aug 6, 2005)

No


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## SuperFlex (Aug 6, 2005)

You all need Jesus!!!

















So do I.......


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## Vieope (Aug 6, 2005)

_I heard people bought old churchs and made parties in it around NYC. I would go to church. _


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## GFR (Aug 6, 2005)

bkc said:
			
		

> You all don't need Jesus!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well said, I agree 100%


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## SuperFlex (Aug 6, 2005)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _I heard people bought old churchs and made parties in it around NYC. I would go to church. _


If they did then it was no longer a church so go ahead... 

*Church isn't even a building anyhow. That is simply a gathering place for "the church..."*


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## SuperFlex (Aug 6, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Well said, I agree 100%


That's not what I said E and trust me... Yes you do... Hell is hott bro! That's with at least two t's................................


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## Vieope (Aug 6, 2005)

_But I heard they dressed up a statue of Jesus and danced with it. _


----------



## GFR (Aug 6, 2005)

bkc said:
			
		

> That's not what I said E and trust me... Yes you do... Hell is hott bro!


Just messing with you  


I live in Arizona..................so I am in hell


----------



## SuperFlex (Aug 6, 2005)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _But I heard they dressed up a statue of Jesus and danced with it. _


I bet Jesus is a great dancer!


----------



## SuperFlex (Aug 6, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Just messing with you
> 
> 
> I live in Arizona..................so I am in hell


Too many white people huh...


----------



## Vieope (Aug 6, 2005)

bkc said:
			
		

> I bet Jesus is a great dancer!


_At least I always see him with arms wide open, ready to party. _


----------



## SuperFlex (Aug 6, 2005)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _At least I always see him with arms wide open, ready to party. _


Now that's a party I'd be at..................:bounce:


----------



## GFR (Aug 6, 2005)

bkc said:
			
		

> Too many white people huh...


About 50% white and 50% Mexican.............not much of anything else here.


----------



## SuperFlex (Aug 6, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> About 50% white and 50% Mexican.............not much of anything else here.


Oooooo latinas... Glad I don't live there or I'd be as good as in hell too!


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 6, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> Look at the facts... The USA is the very first truly free society and
> we are only 224 years old, and when founded 90% of our people couldn't read or write!?
> 
> Religion has been around for over five thousand years...
> ...


we are the first truely free society? and the faith of the founding fathers is well documented. the first truely free society as you put it was founded on Christian principles. Principles you now desire we reject. thereby rejecting the very founding that you feel created the first truely free society

where did you get the figure of 5000 years? why have we never found archialogical evidence of an athiest civilization?  could it be that we have an inner desire to understand that greater being?

more free thinking through technological progress? you need to go through history and study what happens when governments use technology to replace God.  Pol Pot comes to mind in Cambodia. or communism in Russia perhaps.  i love when people talk about all of the killing that has happened in the name of God. (unfortuneatly, man has corrupted Gods teachings for their own purposes and people have died as a result) Yet lets compare it to the killings that happen when God is rejected.  lets take examples of the 25 million people starved by stalin, or Pol Pots "cleansing" of Cambodia 7 million? anyone remember studying Frances Revolution? little bit different outcome than ours.


----------



## god hand (Aug 6, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> we are the first truely free society? and the faith of the founding fathers is well documented. the first truely free society as you put it was founded on Christian principles. Principles you now desire we reject. thereby rejecting the very founding that you feel created the first truely free society
> 
> where did you get the figure of 5000 years? why have we never found archialogical evidence of an athiest civilization?  could it be that we have an inner desire to understand that greater being?
> 
> more free thinking through technological progress? you need to go through history and study what happens when governments use technology to replace God.  Pol Pot comes to mind in Cambodia. or communism in Russia perhaps.  i love when people talk about all of the killing that has happened in the name of God. (unfortuneatly, man has corrupted Gods teachings for their own purposes and people have died as a result) Yet lets compare it to the killings that happen when God is rejected.  lets take examples of the 25 million people starved by stalin, or Pol Pots "cleansing" of Cambodia 7 million? anyone remember studying Frances Revolution? little bit different outcome than ours.



Yes this is true, it isnt Christianity fault for all the violence. Its the dumbass mofos that use Gods name as a reason to commit evil.


----------



## GFR (Aug 6, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Yes this is true, it isnt Christianity fault for all the violence. Its the dumbass mofos that use Gods name as a reason to commit evil.


More like both


----------



## The Monkey Man (Aug 7, 2005)

bkc said:
			
		

> If they did then it was no longer a church so go ahead...
> 
> *Church isn't even a building anyhow. That is simply a gathering place for "the church..."*


Theres a couple of those in Downtown Pontiac MI.

The Jesus freaks came out and used to picket the lines at the club,
and concert entrances...

They picketed for about 5 years then gave up -


----------



## The Monkey Man (Aug 7, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> we are the first truly free society? and the faith of the founding fathers is well documented. the first truly free society as you put it was founded on Christian principles. Principles you now desire we reject. thereby rejecting the very founding that you feel created the first truly free society


The Founding fathers had the foresight to include all religions not just their own - and I don't desire the principles be rejected, just the intolerance, and bigotry







			
				bio-chem said:
			
		

> where did you get the figure of 5000 years? why have we never found archialogical evidence of an athiest civilization? could it be that we have an inner desire to understand that greater being?


No - mankind has up until only 50 or so years ago been too stupid to answer
any of the questions about his past - so he made up the answers
We hypothesized

Then as you say, those early principles were twisted by man, in the name of god


5000 years would mark the general beginning of the sprouts of Christianity
which is probably the oldest "surviving" western religious practice
(you pretty much stomped everyone else out = POLPOT?)





			
				bio-chem said:
			
		

> more free thinking through technological progress? you need to go through history and study what happens when governments use technology to replace God. Pol Pot comes to mind in Cambodia. or communism in Russia perhaps. i love when people talk about all of the killing that has happened in the name of God. (unfortuneatly, man has corrupted Gods teachings for their own purposes and people have died as a result) Yet lets compare it to the killings that happen when God is rejected. lets take examples of the 25 million people starved by stalin, or Pol Pots "cleansing" of Cambodia 7 million? anyone remember studying Frances Revolution? little bit different outcome than ours.


How can you compare any of those dictatorships to our freedom here in the US!?!?!?

We have to right to make the choice to see whatever truth we seek,
Not to be threatened by some totalitarian death force to choose their way..

And the root cause for most of those societies collapse into horror
was = the government becoming more powerful than the people

When they take away the right to bear arms, and to speak freely
you'd better watch out!!!

The biggest hazard I see regarding this today, is the Christian family groups
or "Political Letter corporations"

They are a bit of an enigma
Because they are following what their faith tells them is right...
But, they are indifferent to the ways of forgiveness, and hypocritical,
in that they are intolerant of other people???s beliefs...

They also endanger the rights and freedoms so wisely set forth
by the founding fathers, who learned from experience of persecution
that there needs to be a separation of church and state

So all you Bible Thumpers stop persecuting me!!!!!


----------



## The Monkey Man (Aug 7, 2005)

"You can choose a ready guide
In some celestial voice...

But, if you choose not to decide
You still have made a choice...

You can choose from phantom fears
or kindness that can kill...

I will choose a path that???s clear
I will choose free will"

~Neil Peart~


----------



## SuperFlex (Aug 7, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> Theres a couple of those in Downtown Pontiac MI.
> 
> The Jesus freaks came out and used to picket the lines at the club,
> and concert entrances...
> ...





			
				god hand said:
			
		

> Yes this is true, it isnt Christianity fault for all the violence. Its the dumbass mofos that use Gods name as a reason to commit evil.


Too bad none of these "christians" lived in the neighborhood...


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 7, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> The Founding fathers had the foresight to include all religions not just their own - and I don't desire the principles be rejected, just the intolerance, and bigotry
> 
> 
> 
> ...


50 years ago? when was Darwin again? 

you totally missed the point im not comparing these dictatorships to the USA. im saying this is what happens when you take Christian values, ethics, and morals out of government. im not saying we should have a state mandated religion, far from it. but i am saying we must not reject the christian principles out country was founded on.

and when have you been persecuted? i think you should try to understand what persecution is before you act like christianity is out to get you.


----------



## LexusGS (Aug 7, 2005)

I've been to church twice in my whole life of 16 years.   i dunno if thats good.


----------



## SuperFlex (Aug 7, 2005)

LexusGS said:
			
		

> I've been to church twice in my whole life of 16 years.  i dunno if thats good.


Better than 0... You can come with me sometime if you want!

*The Narrow and Wide Gates *

    13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.


----------



## busyLivin (Aug 7, 2005)

I never go to church. 


(except on Sundays, weddings, holidays & funerals)


----------



## The Monkey Man (Aug 7, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> 50 years ago? when was Darwin again?
> 
> you totally missed the point im not comparing these dictatorships to the USA. im saying this is what happens when you take Christian values, ethics, and morals out of government. im not saying we should have a state mandated religion, far from it. but i am saying we must not reject the christian principles out country was founded on.
> 
> and when have you been persecuted? i think you should try to understand what persecution is before you act like christianity is out to get you.


Open *YOUR* eyes!!! -  

Christianity is out to either get, or convert, eeeveryone who is not christian


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 7, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> Open *YOUR* eyes!!! -
> 
> Christianity is out to either get, or convert, eeeveryone who is not christian


Oh my. thats terrible. run for the hills. save yourselves. how can this be? say it isnt so! (please fill in any other appropriate cliche here)

christians wanting to share their beliefs with others. thats horrible when people try and share something that has been good in their lives with others. they should be selfish and keep it all for themselves.


----------



## god hand (Aug 7, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> Open *YOUR* eyes!!! -
> 
> Christianity is out to either get, or convert, eeeveryone who is not christian


Wow no shit  

Its funny, since all these people think it would be better with no Christianity (or no religion at all) Then what in tha fuck gives u the right to tell what is right and wrong. For example, if I walk down the street and start mowing down people, thats wrong according to my religion. But if u have no religion or believe in no God then what makes u think this is wrong? Who told u killing people is wrong? Another human? Just think how it would be if nobody believed and obeyed the Ten Commandments? I'll probably would kill you!


----------



## LAM (Aug 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> For example, if I walk down the street and start mowing down people, thats wrong according to my religion. But if u have no religion or believe in no God then what makes u think this is wrong?



common sense


----------



## The Monkey Man (Aug 7, 2005)

No...  You're a dummy!


----------



## The Monkey Man (Aug 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Wow no shit
> 
> Its funny, since all these people think it would be better with no Christianity (or no religion at all) Then what in tha fuck gives u the right to tell what is right and wrong. For example, if I walk down the street and start mowing down people, thats wrong according to my religion. But if u have no religion or believe in no God then what makes u think this is wrong? Who told u killing people is wrong? Another human? Just think how it would be if nobody believed and obeyed the Ten Commandments? I'll probably would kill you!


It's called the law Einstein...  You'll go to jail!

as recent as 100-110 years ago that sort of behaivior was common here in the USA

but we figured out that most people don't want to live in fear
So we created a system to prohibit this sort of thing


----------



## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> Oh my. thats terrible. run for the hills. save yourselves. how can this be? say it isnt so! (please fill in any other appropriate cliche here)
> 
> christians wanting to share their beliefs with others. thats horrible when people try and share something that has been good in their lives with others. they should be selfish and keep it all for themselves.


I think you should read a book before you spew out this bull sh1t. The Christian Religion is full of oppression and murder.....ask the Mexicans who had it forced upon them when Spain came in.
A truly Disgusting Religion.


----------



## The Monkey Man (Aug 7, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> christians wanting to share their beliefs with others. thats horrible when people try and share something that has been good in their lives with others. they should be selfish and keep it all for themselves.


OH boy...  - And this is how it starts...

I don't come to your fucking church on Sunday
and say...

"My life is all flowery and wonderful without worrying about
what Jesus thinks, you should be this free also"

NO!!... I'm too busy mowing my lawn

You folks just don't get it, that no matter
how many times I say "sorry, not interested"...

I really don't know what I'm talking about...
Satan has taken control of me...
I just don't realize the wonder of GOD...
I need to be made to believe so I can feel his love too...



 

"Sorry, not interested"

The Jews, Hindus, Buddists and Muslims leave me alone...
(Take the hint)


----------



## themamasan (Aug 7, 2005)

Two thumbs up for Bio-chem and Godhand!!!

I was brought up in the Church, my whole family was.  No one in my family ( aunts, uncles, cousins ) has gotten a divorce, no one has gone to jail for crimes, there is only one kid in the family that has problems (who hung around the wrong crowd).  Sadly I have stopped going to church in recent years.  But I still believe in the word of God 100% and NO ONE has EVER convinced me that it is a crock....and NO ONE ever will.  And you know why, because no human on this earth knows the answer.  IF there is a God and you don't believe and follow his word, you will go to Hell.  If you believe in him and follow his word, you will be rewarded in Heaven.  On the other hand, if you don't believe in God, and you do whatever you want in life ( sex, drugs, and rock n roll lifestyle ) and when you die you just cease to exist and you had a great life, then congrats to you, you just won a huge gamble.  If you followed God's word your whole life, might not had as much fun as others, but were a great person, and you died and then nothing.  So be it, you wouldn't know otherwise.

Just my 2 cents.  I just rather be "safe than sorry" if you know what I mean.


----------



## god hand (Aug 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> .....ask the Mexicans who had it forced upon them when Spain came in.
> A truly Disgusting Religion.


their where no mexicans before spain came in dumbass!


----------



## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

themamasan said:
			
		

> Just my 2 cents.  I just rather be "safe than sorry" if you know what I mean.


*No I don't.*


----------



## Arnold (Aug 7, 2005)

themamasan said:
			
		

> And you know why, because no human on this earth knows the answer.


enough said right there, this is exactly why I don't follow any religeons.  




> IF there is a God and you don't believe and follow his word, you will go to Hell.


interesting that you put *IF* here, although that is correct IMO, it is a big IF.


----------



## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> their where no mexicans before spain came in dumbass!


You are 100% right..................I should have been clearer.
Ask the decedents of the Indian people who lived their.......the ones who were raped by the Spaniards, and their religious culture erased by the catholic church.


----------



## The Monkey Man (Aug 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> Wow no shit
> 
> Its funny, since all these people think it would be better with no Christianity (or no religion at all) Then what in tha fuck gives u the right to tell what is right and wrong. For example, if I walk down the street and start mowing down people, thats wrong according to my religion. But if u have no religion or believe in no God then what makes u think this is wrong? Who told u killing people is wrong? Another human? Just think how it would be if nobody believed and obeyed the Ten Commandments? I'll probably would kill you!


How about his one dipshit...

The reason is the same as why bees don't go around killing other bee's in the hive or in the meadow...

The same reason ants don't go on a killing spree in the colony...

The same reason elephants and lions and almost every other
animal has a pack, or pride, or herd instinct...

They just get along, because if they didn't, they would kill each other out!


----------



## god hand (Aug 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> You are 100% right..................I should have been clearer.
> Ask the decedents of the Indian people who lived their.......the ones who were raped by the Spaniards, and their religious culture erased by the catholic church.


I know I just couldnt let that one slide!  If u think about it, Mexicans isnt a natural race.


----------



## god hand (Aug 7, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> How about his one dipshit...
> 
> The reason is the same as why bees don't go around killing other bee's in the hive or in the meadow...
> 
> ...


Do u compare the human race to bugs? You damn fool.


----------



## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> I know I just couldnt let that one slide!  If u think about it, Mexicans isnt a natural race.


I'm glad you didn't let it slide, you illustrated my point for me.


----------



## god hand (Aug 7, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> The same reason ants don't go on a killing spree in the colony...


But they run a shit load of trains on tha queen.  Could u imagine a mother living like a queen ant? Getting fuck 24/7


----------



## The Monkey Man (Aug 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> You are 100% right...
> I should have been clearer.
> 
> 
> ...


And for what?????... GOD?????... -  

 





...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Look at all the little crosses right on the coins -  
That's GODS money! -  

CHA-CHING! 
DON'T TOUCH! -


----------



## themamasan (Aug 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> *No I don't.*



I would rather believe God's word, make the sacrifices I need to make to follow it in hopes of going to Heaven instead of Hell.  IF there is no God, then no one has to worry about how they live and what happens when they die.  That is why I make the comment about " the gamble ".  If you reject God, and he does in fact exist, Hell awaits...or so the Bible preaches.


----------



## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

themamasan said:
			
		

> I would rather believe God's word, make the sacrifices I need to make to follow it in hopes of going to Heaven instead of Hell.  IF there is no God, then no one has to worry about how they live and what happens when they die.  That is why I make the comment about " the gamble ".  If you reject God, and he does in fact exist, Hell awaits...or so the Bible preaches.


*So you let fear rule your life.......thats just sad.*


----------



## themamasan (Aug 7, 2005)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> enough said right there, this is exactly why I don't follow any religeons.
> 
> 
> 
> interesting that you put *IF* here, although that is correct IMO, it is a big IF.



You are right, it is a " big IF "....But I solely believe that the nonexistence of a higher power is a much " bigger IF "


----------



## god hand (Aug 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> *So you let fear rule your life.......thats just sad.*


Fear of burning and getting tormented for eternity, then yes


----------



## The Monkey Man (Aug 7, 2005)

themamasan said:
			
		

> I would rather believe God's word, make the sacrifices I need to make to follow it in hopes of going to Heaven instead of Hell. IF there is no God, then no one has to worry about how they live and what happens when they die. That is why I make the comment about " the gamble ". If you reject God, and he does in fact exist, Hell awaits...or so the Bible preaches.


The solid gold spires in Vatican city didn't get built with
thinking on a lesser scale...






And before you other guys say... "Oh but that's the Catholics"...

Ta-dah...
a whole city collected rught here in the western US






Pretty nice!!!


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 7, 2005)

damn Godhand its almost like im not sure what side your on.

the animal kingdom analogies are nice, but generally worthless as we can all think of examples in the animal kingdom of behaivior that would be unacceptable in human society.

monkey man where does such a negative and pesimistic attitude really originate from? im not trying to be an ass or anything, but is it really that bad when a Christian tries to tell you about the life of Christ and how following his example will enrich your life and strengthen society? so many people talk about tragic things that have happened in the past in the name of Christ as proof of its falseness, but i think it is fairly safe to say it has matured since that time period.  when was the last time someone held a gun to your head over religion?

and your example of money with crosses over it is a joke. regardless of the civilization it comes from all formes of money are going to be influenced by their diety


----------



## themamasan (Aug 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> *So you let fear rule your life.......thats just sad.*



No it doesn't "rule my life".  It has an influence on it.  Do you steal things you want really bad but can't pay for it?  Do you beat up someone that makes you mad?  Do you get "drunk" and drive 130 mph on the freeway for fun?  Unless you love prison, then you don't for "fear" of going to jail.  I don't do certain things because I may see them as wrong, and in the end better for my well being.

If you feel my thoughts on life and Christianity is "sad" so be it, but I don't follow your reasoning.  I have the freedom to do whatever I want, so do you.  But I believe in consequences.


----------



## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

themamasan said:
			
		

> No it doesn't "rule my life".  It has an influence on it.  Do you steal things you want really bad but can't pay for it?  Do you beat up someone that makes you mad?  Do you get "drunk" and drive 130 mph on the freeway for fun?  Unless you love prison, then you don't for "fear" of going to jail.  I don't do certain things because I may see them as wrong, and in the end better for my well being.*Some of us are not criminals, and don't need God or Laws to behave in a basic civilized fashion.*
> 
> If you feel my thoughts on life and Christianity is "sad" so be it, but I don't follow your reasoning.  I have the freedom to do whatever I want, so do you.  But I believe in consequences.


*I think believing in something out of fear is sad, now to believe in something pure and truly good....thats ok*


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 7, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> The solid gold spires in Vatican city didn't get built with
> thinking on a lesser scale...
> 
> 
> ...


what exactly are you argueing for or against here.


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> *I think believing in something out of fear is sad, now to believe in something pure and truly good....thats ok*


is Christ anything but pure and truly good?


----------



## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> is Christ anything but pure and truly good?


Well???  He did endorse slavery...so I would say *Not a chance!*


----------



## SuperFlex (Aug 7, 2005)

Let's put it like this... God/Christ/The Holy Spirit is the real deal....... Like it or not... There is but one creator and He's it... We may not agree with His ways, teachings, disiplines, etc. but nevertheless what we choose will seal our eternal life... If you don't believe you better "pray"  you're right... If you do believe *know *Him well and be at peace with your maker. It's the reason you live. To serve His will that is. Again, like it or not..................


----------



## themamasan (Aug 7, 2005)

POSTED BY FOREMAN RULES
"Some of us are not criminals, and don't need God or Laws to behave in a basic civilized fashion."

Posted by me:

Very true indeed.

And even devout Christians sometimes can't behave themselves.     

With the fear comment, I have to add that even if I didn't believe in God, I think the teachings in the Bible are excellent.  In any event it comes down to just who you are.  People will be people.


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Well???  He did endorse slavery...so I would say *Not a chance!*


?????????????????


----------



## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

bkc said:
			
		

> Let's put it like this... God/Christ/The Holy Spirit is the real deal....... Like it or not... There is but one creator and He's it... We may not agree with His ways, teachings, disiplines, etc. but nevertheless what we choose will seal our eternal life... If you don't believe you better "pray"  you're right... If you do believe *know *Him well and be at peace with your maker. It's the reason you live. To serve His will that is. Again, like it or not..................


I see your thread attacking Male Homosexuals in a offensive and crude manner was removed..............*Thank God.*   

You are a fine example of how the Bible makes people more loving and less judgmental.


----------



## The Monkey Man (Aug 7, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> where does such a negative and pesimistic attitude really originate from? im not trying to be an ass or anything, but is it really that bad when a Christian tries to tell you about the life of Christ and how following his example will enrich your life and strengthen society? so many people talk about tragic things that have happened in the past in the name of Christ as proof of its falseness, but i think it is fairly safe to say it has matured since that time period. when was the last time someone held a gun to your head over religion


Why don't you ask the average Iraqi how he feels about the encroachment of Christ???

And I have been to several demoniations of churches in my life...
I took from them what I needed, and I will take from the other
religions in the world what I need...  I don't kill, harm, or wrong
other people (usually) on a daily basis and I continue to form
my own opinions on what drives us as humans...

And continue to try to understand how and why other peoples,
and other cultures, don't exactly jive with me

But that's where you are lost...  You know only one way
And refuse to try to see with anything but the Christian church's
eyes for the prize


----------



## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> ?????????????????


Read the Bible  ...............eventually you will find the passage.


----------



## god hand (Aug 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> *I think believing in something out of fear is sad, now to believe in something pure and truly good....thats ok*


So I guess youve never use a condom before?


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 7, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> Why don't you ask the average Iraqi how he feels about the encroachment of Christ???
> 
> And I have been to several demoniations of churches in my life...
> I took from them what I needed, and I will take from the other
> ...


so interesting how you know so much about me. like the fact that ive read the koran, or the torah. i know only one way? ive accepted Christ as my example, but ive hardly done it blindly.  

what a cop out, with your little read the bible statement. nothing in there has Christ promoting slavery, but its cool your trying to pass off erroneous info as fact.

and i hardly see our marines passing out the new testament as they are getting shot at.  Most of the Iraqis dont like a foriegn influence regardless of the occupying powers religion. then again with the divisions in Islam......
Iraq's problems have nothing to do with Christianity


----------



## The Monkey Man (Aug 7, 2005)

I wish there were more gays on this site...

Then you would here some religious no-no stories come out -


----------



## god hand (Aug 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Well???  He did endorse slavery...so I would say *Not a chance!*


The outcome of slavery depends own who is enslaving who. When u think of slavery, u think of unfair and cruel treatment when it doesnt necessarily have to be that way.


----------



## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> The outcome of slavery depends own who is enslaving who. When u think of slavery, u think of unfair and cruel treatment when it doesnt necessarily have to be that way.


*AND THIS FROM A BLACK MAN......................YOUR PARENTS MUST BE ASHAMED!*


----------



## god hand (Aug 7, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> Then again with the divisions in Islam......
> Iraq's problems have nothing to do with Christianity


Great point.


----------



## god hand (Aug 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> *AND THIS FROM A BLACK MAN......................YOUR PARENTS MUST BE ASHAMED!*


U must didnt understand what I said. White people DIDNT have to treat us like we less of a human being, but they chose to.


----------



## The Monkey Man (Aug 7, 2005)

If you could just go ahead and make sure your rebuttals
are directed at the proper person from now on...  That would be great


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## god hand (Aug 7, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> If you could just go ahead and make sure your rebuttals
> are directed at the proper person from now on...  That would be great


What does this picture has to do with.................damn your weird.


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## bio-chem (Aug 7, 2005)

guys traditionally slavery wasnt about race.  in history slaves were usually a defeated enemy, or was enslaved as a result for a crime. slavery as we think about it came about when the dutch went to africa and purchased slaves. purchased slaves from other blacks who felt they were selling a comodity, nothing more.

why would we need more homosexuals on this site to add to this thread? is there something you would want them to add that you feel uncomfortable with?

and why are you unwilling to explain further your little dig on catholics and mormons?


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## MyK (Aug 7, 2005)

god hand said:
			
		

> What does this picture has to do with.................damn your weird.



watch the movie "office space" and youll get it!


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 7, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> so interesting how you know so much about me. like the fact that ive read the koran, or the torah. i know only one way? ive accepted Christ as my example, but ive hardly done it blindly


I am actually very happy to hear that, I will add a smidgen of respect to
reading what you type now



			
				bio-chem said:
			
		

> and i hardly see our marines passing out the new testament as they are getting shot at


Like Bush could get away with that - 



			
				bio-chem said:
			
		

> Most of the Iraqis dont like a foriegn influence regardless of the occupying powers religion. then again with the divisions in Islam


Exactly, so why are we not, part of a united nations peace keeping force
comprised of multi-cultured troops of varying religions?


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## bio-chem (Aug 7, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> I am actually very happy to hear that, I will add a smidgen of respect to
> reading what you type now
> 
> Like Bush could get away with that -
> ...


hey when you are the muscle then you are the muscle. America choose to go it alone in iraq as some people view it, but it doesnt make it wrong.   What countries or cultures do you think we should have enlisted for Iraq? which ones were capable and willing?


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 7, 2005)

I voted "no", to the original poll question


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## SuperFlex (Aug 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I see your thread attacking Male Homosexuals in a offensive and crude manner was removed..............*Thank God.*
> 
> You are a fine example of how the Bible makes people more loving and less judgmental.


Why thank you Eric... You're always so kind. 

Btw just because I don't like chota massagers does mean Jesus doesn't love you...


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## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> guys traditionally slavery wasnt about race.  in history slaves were usually a defeated enemy, or was enslaved as a result for a crime. slavery as we think about it came about when the dutch went to africa and purchased slaves. purchased slaves from other blacks who felt they were selling a comodity, nothing more.*Great point, so slavery is ok under these circumstances......all hail Jesus.*
> 
> why would we need more homosexuals on this site to add to this thread? is there something you would want them to add that you feel uncomfortable with?
> 
> and why are you unwilling to explain further your little dig on catholics and mormons?


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## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

bkc said:
			
		

> Why thank you Eric... You're always so kind.
> 
> Btw just because I don't like chota massagers does mean Jesus doesn't love you...


I dont know what a "chota massagers" is  
But I do know your actions do not reflect the Jesus of the bible.


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## bio-chem (Aug 7, 2005)

all i was saying is that slavery predates Christianity, so to imply that Christianity is somehow resposible is ridiculous.  i was not promoting slavery in any form whatsoever. nor has Christ. in fact no one has ever done more for the equality of man and women regardless of race than Jesus Christ.


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## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> all i was saying is that slavery predates Christianity, so to imply that Christianity is somehow resposible is ridiculous.  i was not promoting slavery in any form whatsoever. nor has Christ. in fact no one has ever done more for the equality of man and women regardless of race than Jesus Christ.


I feel like Im on the Factor   .......just bullsh1t and mis quotes......get a grip.


Post where I said Christianity is responsible for all slavery.   

Another week and sad excuse for intelligent debate.


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## bio-chem (Aug 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I feel like Im on the Factor   .......just bullsh1t and mis quotes......get a grip.
> 
> 
> Post where I said Christianity is responsible for all slavery.
> ...


perhaps your little comment about slavery should be acceptable under these circumstances followed by "all hail Jesus" thereby implying Jesus accepts slavery. but dont worry its a non issue. i guess i expected too much out of you.


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## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> perhaps your little comment about slavery should be acceptable under these circumstances followed by "all hail Jesus" thereby implying Jesus accepts slavery. but dont worry its a non issue. i guess i expected too much out of you.


I said that Jesus endorsed slavery...................and he did.  



The all hail Jesus part was a snub on your comment that christ was pure and truly good..............as in I still say he was not!

Spend more time reading the bible and less arguing about it...and then in the future you might have a clear idea of your religon and what it represents...


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## bio-chem (Aug 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I said that Jesus endorsed slavery...................and he did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you keep saying what you post is fact, and how you can back it up, and yet you dont. you have had more than enough opportunity to show something where Jesus endorsed slavery or lived anything other than a perfect life. prove it big guy. shut me up. or you can continue to hide behind the "i think you should study more about what you believe" BS and get no where


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## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> you keep saying what you post is fact, and how you can back it up, and yet you dont. you have had more than enough opportunity to show something where Jesus endorsed slavery or lived anything other than a perfect life. prove it big guy. shut me up. or you can continue to hide behind the "i think you should study more about what you believe" BS and get no where


 Do you really expect me to teach you the bible??
If you do then send me a check....$30 per hour.
You are a lazy christian who doesn't spend the time to read one book........pitiful.


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## bio-chem (Aug 7, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Do you really expect me to teach you the bible??
> If you do then send me a check....$30 per hour.
> You are a lazy christian who doesn't spend the time to read one book........pitiful.


so then you consent what you are saying is false.


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## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> so then you consent what you are saying is false.


Ok buddy....................lets make a bet  
I will find and quote the scriptures from the bible that show Jesuses reactions to slavery and his opinions on it.


And when you see what I have said is true then you have to........
Put in your signature what I want.......no exceptions.



I don't expect you to live up to this because thats not your style


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## bio-chem (Aug 7, 2005)

done


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## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> done


  
it might take a day or 2..........hours of reading


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## bio-chem (Aug 7, 2005)

hopefully youll learn something


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## GFR (Aug 7, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> hopefully youll learn something


My hope is to teach you something  
Re-reading a book always shows you something new.


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## Arnold (Aug 7, 2005)

closing this thread now...


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