# Advice, Abs, Biceps



## MikeyDiiorio (May 5, 2006)

Hey guys  

Tis the newbie here; Now I've read your 3step program tips.
I'm a bit relecutant on the once a week only, as I up till reading it used to do 9 sets of 10 on each arm, a night. (curling).

Anyway, I am now doing 7 sets of 10 on each arm; and from now on will only be doing that once a week... My questions are, how long should it take to see results? 3-4 weeks? I'm obviously not expecting HUGE muscle growth, but a man can dream right?

Also; you may want to know, Im not wanting to make my body a work of art, or even get a 6 pack, all I want to do is increase my bicep size, and get rid of the tiny tummy I have developed.

Now I realise I am going to have to be exceptionally strict with my food, eat the same amount, but each healthy things. As I said, I don't wish to gain weight, I eat alot as it is. 

So my goals are 


Bigger Biceps
Flatter Stomach


Any tips,other than the 3 step program? Personal experiences that you have learnt, that truly do increase bicep size? I'm not a lazy person, So I'm determind to do this, not only for the ladies, but for myself. 

And the flatter stomach; Sit-ups? Anygood? If so, how many a night/week.

Etc...  Thanks for the help guys, 

Appreciated!

- MD


----------



## kcoleman (May 5, 2006)

Situps won't give you a flat stomach. Diet will.

Just doing curls every week will do nothing for your physique, and your biceps probably won't even grow that much. Train your whole body. Read the training and diet stickies in their respective forums.

Besides even if you wanted to just train one muscle "for the ladies", why pick biceps? haha


----------



## GoLdeN M 07 (May 5, 2006)

Well what ever u do  *dont* do high rep crunches for ur abs (unless u wanna exhaust ur abs and a get a sore neck and back). Do ur ab exercises in low reps (1-5) and u'll be killing 2 birds with 1 stone: ull get a nice six pack faster (burn off the fat first) and ull get strong abs (strong abs=strong body).


----------



## mike456 (May 5, 2006)

do 4 sets of underhand  pull ups(4-12 reps)- they are great for the biceps! and make sure that you are training hard- push yourself-do them weighted if you get 12 reps easily, and then do 3 sets of barbell curls(6-12 reps), and do about 4 sets of squats(4-6 reps) in the beginning of the workout(not only will they help burn fat, they will make your legs stronger/bigger and it will make your body realease hormones that will promote growth in the rest of your body(biceps), i know you want big arms so you also will have to work the triceps(they make up about 2/3 of your arm size!) so after the squats, do some weigted dips(4 sets of 4-12 reps) do this workout twice a week and fix up our diet, diet is key to getting a flatter stomach and making u gain muscle-u wont even have to do ab work! check out the diet forums, since your a beginner it shouldnt take long to grow your arms 
here is the workout- do it twice a week try doin it on monday and thursday
Squats 4 sets- 4-6 reps
Weighted Dips 4 sets - 4-12 reps
underhand pullups or cable pulldowns 4 sets- 4-12 
Barbell Curls 3 sets- 6-12 reps
(optional) 3 sets of weighted situps- 4-6 reps
train hard and fix up a diet and youll get the results u want in no time


----------



## GoLdeN M 07 (May 5, 2006)

mike456 said:
			
		

> do 4 sets of underhand  pull ups(4-12 reps)- they are great for the biceps! and make sure that you are training hard- push yourself-do them weighted if you get 12 reps easily, and then do 3 sets of barbell curls(6-12 reps), and do about 4 sets of squats(4-6 reps) in the beginning of the workout(not only will they help burn fat, they will make your legs stronger/bigger and it will make your body realease hormones that will promote growth in the rest of your body(biceps), i know you want big arms so you also will have to work the triceps(they make up about 2/3 of your arm size!) so after the squats, do some weigted dips(4 sets of 4-12 reps) do this workout twice a week and fix up our diet, diet is key to getting a flatter stomach and making u gain muscle-u wont even have to do ab work! check out the diet forums, since your a beginner it shouldnt take long to grow your arms
> here is the workout- do it twice a week try doin it on monday and thursday
> Squats 4 sets- 4-6 reps
> Weighted Dips 4 sets - 4-12 reps
> ...



First of all pullups arent nearly as good in working ur biceps as curling. Second, u should be doing exercises in LOW REPS! High reps wont do shit for u. Ull build strength and muscle faster. But ur right on one thing, situps wont get u anything.


----------



## GFR (May 5, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> Well what ever u do  *dont* do high rep crunches for ur abs (unless u wanna exhaust ur abs and a get a sore neck and back).* Do ur ab exercises in low reps (1-5) and u'll be killing 2 birds with 1 stone: ull get a nice six pack faster (burn off the fat first)* and ull get strong abs (strong abs=strong body).




More bad advice Golden


----------



## mike456 (May 5, 2006)

stop givin advice Golden! underhand pullups are good for biceps, i dunno who told you low reps(1-5) is good for size!


----------



## Favre (May 5, 2006)

Which do you want first? Bigger biceps or a flatter stomach? Bigger biceps require weight gain. You want bigger biceps? Try gaining 15 - 20 pounds and blasting them once a week along with everything else.  If you want your muscles to grow you got to eat.

Don't beleive the hype some clowns talk about gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time. Unless you're juicing or are totally out of shape, it's not going to happen. You still get people claiming how they gained muscle and lost fat at the same time. Sure over the course of a month or so someone could gain a few pounds of muscle and lose a couple pounds of fat but they were not doing both at the same time. They were simply eating more some days and less others and would have had better results had they just concentrated on one or the other.

Build the muscle, then burn the fat and you'll get much better results.


----------



## mike456 (May 5, 2006)

it is not hard to build muscle and lose fat if you are a beginner,  if hes on a good fat loss diet- he'll prolly be getting better nutrition for muscle gain than any other beginners do(even if they are not cutting), i didnt even look at my diet when i first started- wasnt getting enough protein or anything and i still got good gains


----------



## Favre (May 5, 2006)

mike456 said:
			
		

> it is not hard to build muscle and lose fat if you are a beginner,  if hes on a good fat loss diet- he'll prolly be getting better nutrition for muscle gain than any other beginners do(even if they are not cutting), i didnt even look at my diet when i first started- wasnt getting enough protein or anything and i still got good gains



Yeah it's possible in certain situations, but why go about it half assed? Depending on what his bodyfat % is, he should either bulk up, or lose some fat and then bulk up. The higher bodyfat % you have, the more fat you can lose without losing muscle or maybe possibly gaining a little bit of muscle especially if you're a beginner. He's not going to add inches to his arms while losing bodyfat though.

It all depends on how into this shit he really is and whether he wants an extra eighth of an inch on his arms or something noticeable.


----------



## GoLdeN M 07 (May 5, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> More bad advice Golden



holy shit r u serious?!.....  
   the best way to work the abs is with low reps. high reps wont do shit for u unless u wanna a horrible workout and a sore neck and back.  if u dont believe me  ur a dumbass.  


Alright and if its such bad advice  ,explain how its such crap.   im serious  i wanna know.   Whats the best way to work ur abs?


----------



## Favre (May 5, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> holy shit r u serious?!.....
> the best way to work the abs is with low reps. high reps wont do shit for u unless u wanna a horrible workout and a sore neck and back.  if u dont believe me  ur a dumbass.
> 
> 
> Alright and if its such bad advice  ,explain how its such crap.   im serious  i wanna know.   Whats the best way to work ur abs?



You're advising sets of 1-5 reps for abs? What would one do for one rep? A crunch with 200 Ibs. on their chest?

I'm all in favor of using resistance instead of just bodyweight when working abs but when you think about the movement you're doing it's not a move where you can pile on a ton of weight and do it safely.


----------



## GFR (May 5, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> holy shit r u serious?!.....
> the best way to work the abs is with low reps. high reps wont do shit for u unless u wanna a horrible workout and a sore neck and back.  if u dont believe me  ur a dumbass.
> 
> 
> Alright and if its such bad advice  ,explain how its such crap.   im serious  i wanna know.   Whats the best way to work ur abs?


You are 15 and sound like you are 11. Read more and post less son.


----------



## P-funk (May 6, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> You are 15 and sound like you are 11. Read more and post less son.


----------



## assassin (May 6, 2006)

to do 1-5 reps for abs is impossible ............. also even if it's possible abs are for indurance not size they won't ever grow like ur chest does.......u just wanted to say that doing thousands of reps as some ppl do won't do any good u must try to go in the range 20-25 reps and lose ur bf% by following a good diet for a while.... i forgot....9#


----------



## MikeyDiiorio (May 6, 2006)

Well I would rather focus on a flatter stomach to be honest, thanks for all the advice by the way .

So the way to a flatter stomach and weight loss is diet, exercise and time?


----------



## assassin (May 6, 2006)

MikeyDiiorio said:
			
		

> Well I would rather focus on a flatter stomach to be honest, thanks for all the advice by the way .
> 
> So the way to a flatter stomach and weight loss is diet, exercise and time?



that's it but u need to rearrange it it's diet then  time then exercise


----------



## assassin (May 6, 2006)

i mean ab exercise but u need as a 1st priority to do cardio and weight training to lose ur fat and transform ur body


----------



## kcoleman (May 6, 2006)

MikeyDiiorio said:
			
		

> Well I would rather focus on a flatter stomach to be honest, thanks for all the advice by the way .
> 
> So the way to a flatter stomach and weight loss is diet, exercise and time?



I don't get it, so you want to be like, emaciated or something? Hit the weights it's not gonna make you look like Arnold in a week!


----------



## MikeyDiiorio (May 6, 2006)

No I dont want to be skinny, 
I just want to tone my stomach and get rid of the bit of fat surrounding it!


----------



## JordanMang (May 6, 2006)

Well, sadly we can't target areas we want to "tone" or "thin up".  You have to do cardio and fat will naturally start to "melt off".  It may start at your legs, or your butt, or your chest, and maybe your stomach.  Vica versa your stomach maybe the last to go.  So, have a good diet ( read the stickies in diet & nutrition ), and a good training regiment ( read the stickies in training ).  Goodluck.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (May 6, 2006)

JordanMang said:
			
		

> You have to do cardio and fat will naturally start to "melt off".


disagree. you can drop bf w/o doing an ounce of cardio if your diet is on point. diet first. cardio second.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (May 6, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

>


x2


----------



## Seanp156 (May 6, 2006)

If you have the goals of getting bigger biceps, and a flatter stomach, and realize that you're going to be strict with your diet, why not go the extra step of training weights 3-4 times a week, and train your whole body?


----------



## assassin (May 6, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> disagree. you can drop bf w/o doing an ounce of cardio if your diet is on point. diet first. cardio second.




that's right but why do u think bodybuilders do lots of cardio.....1-for best results and gains.
2-if u don't do cardio ur maintanance is very low and so u need to eat very low to make a calorie deficit.


----------



## JordanMang (May 6, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> disagree. you can drop bf w/o doing an ounce of cardio if your diet is on point. diet first. cardio second.




I can lose a lot of weight by not eating for 5 days at a time too, what's your point?  To lose the weight he wants to lose he needs cardio ( and yes a good diet as I mentioned I do believe? ).  Thank you for stating the obvious though.


----------



## assassin (May 6, 2006)

Seanp156 said:
			
		

> If you have the goals of getting bigger biceps, and a flatter stomach, and realize that you're going to be strict with your diet, why not go the extra step of training weights 3-4 times a week, and train your whole body?




   there's a myth that say that doing weight training makes u big and can't lose weight....


----------



## GoLdeN M 07 (May 6, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> You are 15 and sound like you are 11. Read more and post less son.




I do fucking read. Trust me i know more about working the abs than u do. Im not saying to do exercises in 1 fucking rep. Im saying to do them in low reps (max 5). U dont need to work ur biceps in low reps  just ur abs.


----------



## JordanMang (May 6, 2006)

Actually, your abs are what are known as "slow twitch" muscles.  Basically this means that when training abs you need to use higher reps ( not 25+ persay ), but not below 10-15 I'd say. Here is a link for your reference.
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/exercisephysiology/a/aa080901a.htm


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (May 6, 2006)

assassin said:
			
		

> that's right but why do u think bodybuilders do lots of cardio.....1-for best results and gains.
> 2-if u don't do cardio ur maintanance is very low and so u need to eat very low to make a calorie deficit.


not all BBers do lots of cardio for comp prep.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (May 6, 2006)

JordanMang said:
			
		

> I can lose a lot of weight by not eating for 5 days at a time too, what's your point?  To lose the weight he wants to lose he needs cardio ( and yes a good diet as I mentioned I do believe? ).  Thank you for stating the obvious though.


my point is you are incorrect. 

in order to lose weight, one does not NEED cardio. this is a misnomer and if more people would focus on their diet rather than ridiculous advice like this, they wouldn't have to spend 2 hours on the treadmill every day. 

it obviously wasn't _obvious_ to you, that's apparent in your response. maybe YOU should re-evaluate your diet and see what happens. may save you some time in cardio hell.


----------



## assassin (May 6, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> not all BBers do lots of cardio for comp prep.




at least when cutting they do some  ..at the end some body types even never need cardio at all but ppls like me it helps a lot.....


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (May 6, 2006)

assassin said:
			
		

> at least when cutting they do some  ..at the end some body types even never need cardio at all but ppls like me it helps a lot.....


some do, some don't. this is irrelevant to the argument.


----------



## assassin (May 6, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> my point is you are incorrect.
> 
> in order to lose weight, one does not NEED cardio. this is a misnomer and if more people would focus on their diet rather than ridiculous advice like this, they wouldn't have to spend 2 hours on the treadmill every day.
> 
> it obviously wasn't _obvious_ to you, that's apparent in your response. maybe YOU should re-evaluate your diet and see what happens. may save you some time in cardio hell.




yup    i agree 100 % diet is number one to take care of ...cardio only helps for making a calorie deficit ...wolf says that if u make a deficit without cardio then no need for it ..ppl don't lose weight because they eat more than they burn


----------



## JordanMang (May 6, 2006)

Are you kidding me? Would you look at my post before making this kind of assumption?  I emphasised his diet, and simply mentioned that for fat to "melt away" he'd need to do cardio.  I have no idea what point you're trying to make cause you have no bases in what you're saying.  Re-phrase or just stop.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (May 6, 2006)

go back and read my posts slower...you'll get it .


----------



## assassin (May 6, 2006)

JordanMang said:
			
		

> Are you kidding me? Would you look at my post before making this kind of assumption?  I emphasised his diet, and simply mentioned that for fat to "melt away" he'd need to do cardio.  I have no idea what point you're trying to make cause you have no bases in what you're saying.  Re-phrase or just stop.




 why are u shouting


----------



## JordanMang (May 6, 2006)

Their's nothing to get.  I never stated anything contrary to what you stated.  Instead of taking what I said on the whole you took one comment which was just one piece of the advice I was trying to impart.  You're not looking at this as case specific.  Yes, you are right - you don't need to cardio to lose bf ( a good diet will work fine ), but in his case ( which I hope is what you're talking about otherwise you're making no sense ) then he does need cardio to achieve his goals.  Their's nothing to get about your post to begin with because in reality we're both right, and it's stupid for you to make an assumption otherwise.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (May 6, 2006)

again, go back and read my posts. i disagree with you and stated the reasons why. he does not NEED cardio to achieve his goals contrary to what you may believe. it's fine to supplement diet and training with cardio but not necessary. cardio does not flatten a stomach, nutrition does.


----------



## JordanMang (May 6, 2006)

Okay, so you're just wrong.


----------



## assassin (May 6, 2006)

JordanMang said:
			
		

> Okay, so you're just wrong.




   naaaanaananaaaanaa


----------



## assassin (May 6, 2006)




----------



## JordanMang (May 6, 2006)

assassin said:
			
		

> naaaanaananaaaanaa



The most illiterate and ignorant person on the forums making fun of someone


----------



## assassin (May 6, 2006)

JordanMang said:
			
		

> The most illiterate and ignorant person on the forums making fun of someone




i'm not making fun ...just joking with u ,, i mean every thing has finished no need to prove somebody's wrong.....


----------



## mrmark (May 6, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> holy shit r u serious?!.....
> the best way to work the abs is with low reps. high reps wont do shit for u unless u wanna a horrible workout and a sore neck and back.  if u dont believe me  ur a dumbass.
> 
> 
> Alright and if its such bad advice  ,explain how its such crap.   im serious  i wanna know.   Whats the best way to work ur abs?



Don't go insulting other members of the board for disagreeing with you. 

If you're getting a sore neck and back when doing stomach at higher reps then you must be doing them badly. I do 3x ~30 reps when I do stomach and I have the basis for a decent 6 pack.


----------



## assassin (May 6, 2006)

mrmark said:
			
		

> Don't go insulting other members of the board for disagreeing with you.
> 
> If you're getting a sore neck and back when doing stomach at higher reps then you must be doing them badly. I do 3x ~30 reps when I do stomach and I have the basis for a decent 6 pack.




if u can do more than 25 reps without feeling anything hold a weight 5-10 kg ........u maybe doing it wrong as most of ppl do u must squeeze ur abs as u can and take a breath in ur negative motion and exhale while squeezing, also u must try as u can not to rest at the maximum contraction point or the negative point....keep ur whole range of motion in the contraction area don't go too far...


----------



## assassin (May 6, 2006)

also try to  do abs after ur cardio..after i finish my 30 minutes of cycling i sit on the floor fast and do several sets supersetting between different abs exercises ......it takes 2-4 minutes maximum to reach complete fatigue...


----------



## GFR (May 6, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> I do fucking read. Trust me *i *know more about working the abs than* u *do. *Im* not saying to do exercises in *1* fucking rep. *Im* saying to do them in low reps (max 5).* U *dont need to work *ur* biceps in low reps  just *ur* abs.


My brain just exploded 5,000,000,000X


----------



## P-funk (May 6, 2006)

slowly becoming one of my favorite threads!!  




*may have to stickie this one in a little bit!*


----------



## JordanMang (May 6, 2006)

U r so krazy


----------



## GFR (May 6, 2006)

Do you like Phil Collins? I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Christy, take off your robe. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. Sabrina, remove your dress. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Sabrina, why don't you, uh, dance a little. Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as anything I've heard in rock.  Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and Against All Odds. Sabrina, don't just stare at it, eat it. But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist. This is Sussudio, a great, great song, a personal favorite.


----------



## MikeyDiiorio (May 6, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> slowly becoming one of my favorite threads!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It amazes me how offtopic things can go


----------



## assassin (May 6, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> My brain just exploded 5,000,000,000X


----------



## mrmark (May 7, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Do you like Phil Collins? I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece.... Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and Against All Odds. Sabrina, don't just stare at it, eat it. But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist. This is Sussudio, a great, great song, a personal favorite.



I learnt a lot from that movie.


----------



## GoLdeN M 07 (May 7, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> My brain just exploded 5,000,000,000X



Wow congratulations foreman u can read pronouns and a damn number!   


Now if only u knew anything about actually working ur abs and quit shitting me.
Loser.


----------



## Favre (May 7, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> Wow congratulations foreman u can read pronouns and a damn number!
> 
> 
> Now if only u knew anything about actually working ur abs and quit shitting me.
> Loser.



Can we get some pics of your ripped shredded 6 pack please?

I'm curious as to exactly what ab exercises we should be doing in the 1-5 rep range. Could you elaborate a little?


----------



## assassin (May 7, 2006)

Favre said:
			
		

> Can we get some pics of your ripped shredded 6 pack please?
> 
> I'm curious as to exactly what ab exercises we should be doing in the 1-5 rep range. Could you elaborate a little?





i'll tell u. hold a 200 lbs barbell on ur chest and crunch.....or hold a huge rock and do situps....with this frequency   45/0/150/x,,, i'm sure u won't do more than one rep trust me


----------



## mike456 (May 7, 2006)

Jordan be a little open minded, what wolf is trying to say is u do not need any cardio at all to lose bodyfat, it'll help a little, but thats it, you said u need cardio- she is saying u dont, and no you do not need  CARDIO!!!

just a good diet.


----------



## GoLdeN M 07 (May 7, 2006)

Favre said:
			
		

> Can we get some pics of your ripped shredded 6 pack please?
> 
> I'm curious as to exactly what ab exercises we should be doing in the 1-5 rep range. Could you elaborate a little?




1. I dont work my abs

2. The exercises that u should be doing instead of high rep crunches  should be working up to standing wheel rollouts and dragon flags or be doing hanging leg raises/lifts and janda situps,all in low(3-5 reps) reps. This way you'll be getting a ripped 6 pack faster than high rep crunches and also getting *stronger *abs (giving u a stronger body, believe it or not). 

Yo and another thing. When i say low reps as in 1-5 reps, Im not saying doing ur ab exercises in *1* frikken rep.  

And im guessing u and foreman still think im a dumbass and dont know what im talking about cuz im only 15 right?


----------



## Favre (May 7, 2006)

assassin said:
			
		

> i'll tell u. hold a 200 lbs barbell on ur chest and crunch.....or hold a huge rock and do situps....with this frequency   45/0/150/x,,, i'm sure u won't do more than one rep trust me



 You'll never believe it but I got 2 reps with this boulder I found over in the neighbor's yard. I tried for a 3rd rep but I needed a spot to get it up. Oh and my legs got crushed when the boulder fell on them but oh well it will be worth it.


----------



## mike456 (May 7, 2006)

youll get stronger but your abs will not be as big as doing 6-12 reps- ill say it one more time- 1-5 reps= strength, 6-12 reps= hypertrophy(muscle growth), 15+ reps = endurance


----------



## Favre (May 7, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> 1. I dont work my abs
> 
> 2. The exercises that u should be doing instead of high rep crunches  should be working up to standing wheel rollouts and dragon flags or be doing hanging leg raises/lifts and janda situps,all in low(3-5 reps) reps. This way you'll be getting a ripped 6 pack faster than high rep crunches and also getting *stronger *abs (giving u a stronger body, believe it or not).
> 
> ...



Why are you giving ab advice if you don't work your abs?


----------



## assassin (May 7, 2006)

mike456 said:
			
		

> youll get stronger but your abs will not be as big as doing 6-12 reps- ill say it one more time- 1-5 reps= strength, 6-12 reps= hypertrophy(muscle growth), 15+ reps = endurance




this equation has nothing to do with abs .... or calves ......


----------



## mrmark (May 7, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> 1. I dont work my abs
> 
> 2. The exercises that u should be doing instead of high rep crunches  should be working up to standing wheel rollouts and dragon flags or be doing hanging leg raises/lifts and janda situps,all in low(3-5 reps) reps. This way you'll be getting a ripped 6 pack faster than high rep crunches and also getting *stronger *abs (giving u a stronger body, believe it or not).
> 
> ...



Don't take this the wrong way but I don't think a 15 year old, with such little bodybuilding experience behind him, should be so opinionated and stubborn.


----------



## mike456 (May 7, 2006)

assassin said:
			
		

> this equation has nothing to do with abs .... or calves ......


just shut the fuck up dumb ass 
a muscle, is a muscle


----------



## mike456 (May 7, 2006)

assassin I was just kiddin- I always wanted to say that


----------



## assassin (May 7, 2006)

mike456 said:
			
		

> assassin I was just kiddin- I always wanted to say that




   o my friend u r welcome to say what ever u want....... ....



now stfu ass hole


----------



## assassin (May 7, 2006)

just kidding


----------



## GoLdeN M 07 (May 7, 2006)

mrmark said:
			
		

> Don't take this the wrong way but I don't think a 15 year old, with such little bodybuilding experience behind him, should be so opinionated and stubborn.



So basically ur just saying i still dont know what im talking about.


----------



## GoLdeN M 07 (May 7, 2006)

Favre said:
			
		

> Why are you giving ab advice if you don't work your abs?



Well i obviously know more than u and forman so y do u care?


----------



## mrmark (May 7, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> So basically ur just saying i still dont know what im talking about.



Read what I typed.


----------



## mike456 (May 7, 2006)

stfu Golden- who the hell do you think you are, your 15- do you know how long most of these people have been training?
how long have you been training, you already think you are an expert, you probably read a fucking article in a magazine, and now you swear by it


----------



## mike456 (May 7, 2006)

I agree that people should not go over 12 reps for any exercise if they want size, but who the hell told you or proved to you that 1-5 reps is best for size, 1-5 reps is for strength- if you want strength do that


----------



## mike456 (May 7, 2006)

LOOK AT THE PM THIS DUMBASS(GOLDEN) SENT ME- HILARIOUS, AND MY REPLY:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoLdeN M 07
Alright first of all go fuck urself. Second. I READ THE ARTICLES FROM ACTUAL INTERNET SITES. U SERIOUSLY DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT WORKING OUT U FUCKING MORON. I EVEN KNOW MORE THAN U AND U OVERESTIMATE ME. ur a fucking loser im serious. 


WOW- YOU READ THE ARTICLES FROM ACTUAL INTERNET SITES!! IM SO SORRY I APLOGIZE, BECAUSE IF SOMEONE WROTE IT ON THE INTERNET IT MUST BE TRUE!! NOW I THINK YOU ARE DUMBER THAN I DID IN THE FIRST PLACE, DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ- GO FROM EXPERIENCE, NOT WHAT SOME OTHER JACKASS WROTE, BRO USE YOUR FUCKING BRAIN- AND IM SURE YOU MEANT TO WRITE UNDERESTIMATE, WHY DO YOU THINK YOU ARE SO MUCH SMARTER THAN EVERYONE, OK WHEN YOUR FUCKIN 400LBS OF PURE MUSCLE- TALK SHIT


----------



## assassin (May 7, 2006)

i feel like i am back to the nursery


----------



## mrmark (May 7, 2006)

mike456 - if that is true then it is sad and he really is showing off his age and maturity.


----------



## assassin (May 7, 2006)

yeah really 15......actually to everybody here : don't bother ur selfs in such stupid arguments no body benefit from this it's just my msn pops every fckn minute showing a new msg and i waste my time reading this crap.....some guys just wanna have fun insulting and saying stupid stuff , they don't wanna get any useful information ...best way is ... I G N O R E 'em


----------



## mike456 (May 7, 2006)

it is true, i was laughing my ass off when I read this PM


----------



## mike456 (May 7, 2006)

another PM from golden hahhahaha:
Aww thanks thats so nice of u. Well u know believe it or not I've also been on alot of other forums where i got my info and i also have a professional book on this. WHEN U HOWEVER DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT TRUE WORKOUTS. U DONT NEED EXPERIENCE SINCE UV PROBABLY WASTED UR WHOLE LIFE ON IT. PIECE OF SHIT. IM SERIOUS I KNOW MORE THAN UR DUMBASS DOES U FUCKING ASSHOLE.


----------



## mrmark (May 7, 2006)

mike456 - dont bother opening his PMs. He can't force you to read them.

Let's just ignore the wrong advice in this thread and get back on topic.


----------



## assassin (May 7, 2006)

another minute wasted from my time  when i read that crap


----------



## GFR (May 7, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> So basically ur just saying i still dont know what im talking about.


Yes, you have proven time and time again you don't know shit.


----------



## JordanMang (May 7, 2006)

I could beat up every person who posted on this thread while injecting myself with cyanide & while my balls were in the jaws of life...Gold, Assassin, & Mike especially.


----------



## mike456 (May 7, 2006)

yea ok dumbass, stop the meaningless posts


----------



## assassin (May 7, 2006)

JordanMang said:
			
		

> I could beat up every person who posted on this thread while injecting myself with cyanide & while my balls were in the jaws of life...Gold, Assassin, & Mike especially.




heheheehe i already injected myself bye miserable life


----------



## JordanMang (May 7, 2006)

God you're both some nerds. And, I will make as many "meaningless" post as want you tool.


----------



## assassin (May 7, 2006)

JordanMang said:
			
		

> God you're both some nerds. And, I will make as many "meaningless" post as want you tool.




stfu pls


----------



## mike456 (May 7, 2006)

whats ur fukin problem mang- what the fuck did i say 2 u- oh yea ur the dumbass that said you NEED to do cardio to lose fat


----------



## assassin (May 7, 2006)

i'm outa here


----------



## JordanMang (May 7, 2006)

Mike456, you're the illiterate fuck who knows almost nothing about health or weight lifting yet post like he knows everything.  Stop typing.


----------



## mike456 (May 7, 2006)

what the hell did I type- please quote it- cause I do not know what you are talking about


----------



## mike456 (May 7, 2006)

i noticed when people have nothing good to say, they always check the other peoples posts to see if they spelled something wrong... its a forum not a english test


----------



## assassin (May 7, 2006)

thnk god i went outta here a while ago  .......although those pops in the msn are still there


----------



## mike456 (May 7, 2006)

u can unsuscribe from this thread(so that you dont get any emails to your msn) go to user cp at the top and figure it out


----------



## Goodfella9783 (May 7, 2006)

mike456 said:
			
		

> i noticed when people have nothing good to say, they always check the other peoples posts to see if they spelled something wrong... its a forum not *a english test*


 
an English test.

J/K


----------



## GoLdeN M 07 (May 7, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Yes, you have proven time and time again you don't know shit.




Alright buddy  ur right. I dont know wtf im talking about. I just made janda situps, standing wheel rollouts, dragon flags, and hanging leg raises up.


----------



## GFR (May 7, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> Alright buddy  ur right. I dont know wtf im talking about. I just made janda situps, standing wheel rollouts, dragon flags, and hanging leg raises up.


I can say brain surgery but that does'nt mean I know how to do it.  1-5 son, 1-5


----------



## GoLdeN M 07 (May 7, 2006)

??


----------



## myCATpowerlifts (May 7, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I can say brain surgery but that does'nt mean I know how to do it.  1-5 son, 1-5



 Rofl


----------



## Favre (May 7, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> Alright buddy  ur right. I dont know wtf im talking about. I just made janda situps, standing wheel rollouts, dragon flags, and hanging leg raises up.



So if you know the secret to getting a ripped 6 pack then why aren't you working your abs? Are you a genetic 15 year old freak that has them whithout needing to work them?

What if a guy can do more than 5 reps of such a movement as the hanging leg raise (I use that one cause I've never heard of the other three) should he/she just stop then cause that is the magic cutoff and doing more than 5 reps will not only not help but actually be detrimental?


----------



## CowPimp (May 8, 2006)

Best thread ever.  It has thread of the year potential.  Keep it rolling guys.


----------



## DiGiTaL (May 8, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> holy shit r u serious?!.....
> the best way to work the abs is with low reps. high reps wont do shit for u unless u wanna a horrible workout and a sore neck and back.  if u dont believe me  ur a dumbass.
> 
> 
> Alright and if its such bad advice  ,explain how its such crap.   im serious  i wanna know.   Whats the best way to work ur abs?



are you high....


----------



## assassin (May 8, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Best thread ever.  It has thread of the year potential.  Keep it rolling guys.




    totally crap .....


----------



## Gazhole (May 8, 2006)

I'd just like to point out to MikeyDiiorio that not every thread is as pre-school as this one.

It only takes a few idiots to ruin a thread. Hopefully you can see who the idiots are, and who are the people you should listen to. 

That said, this has been really fucking hilarious after a shitty day at the office.

Rock on \m/.


----------



## assassin (May 8, 2006)

who's mickey diorio


----------



## Gazhole (May 8, 2006)

assassin said:
			
		

> who's mickey diorio



The person who started this thread asking for serious advice on training.


----------



## assassin (May 8, 2006)

Gazhole said:
			
		

> The person who started this thread asking for serious advice on training.




he might be in the hospital right now


----------



## Gazhole (May 8, 2006)

assassin said:
			
		

> he might be in the hospital right now



I think its more likely that his first impression of this board sent him running for the hills.


----------



## assassin (May 8, 2006)

poor little diario ...... i guess the best thing they do now is to delete this crapy thread  it's real bad for some body new to the forums to read this


----------



## fUnc17 (May 8, 2006)

assassin said:
			
		

> poor little diario ...... i guess the best thing they do now is to delete this crapy thread  it's real bad for some body new to the forums to read this


 
Exactly why I like P's idea of making this thread a sticky... as reference of what not to do if you don't want to get banned.


----------



## assassin (May 8, 2006)

fUnc17 said:
			
		

> Exactly why I like P's idea of making this thread a sticky... as reference of what not to do if you don't want to get banned.



    this is the best part of the thread....the title will 
be written like this  GOOD MORNING KIDS WE ARE GOING TO VIEW NOW WHAT NOT TO DO WHEN JOINING IRON MAGAZINE FORUMS IN ORDER NOT TO GET KICKED IN THE BUTT ......


----------



## GoLdeN M 07 (May 8, 2006)

Favre said:
			
		

> So if you know the secret to getting a ripped 6 pack then why aren't you working your abs? Are you a genetic 15 year old freak that has them whithout needing to work them?
> 
> What if a guy can do more than 5 reps of such a movement as the hanging leg raise (I use that one cause I've never heard of the other three) should he/she just stop then cause that is the magic cutoff and doing more than 5 reps will not only not help but actually be detrimental?



Well i dont work my abs because i kinda dont want to. I just have alot of knowledge about them and im trying to _*share *_them with other people.  If u dont believe me and think im talking bullshit   i dont care. 


And no if a guy can do more than 5 reps with hanging leg raises  he shouldnt just stop....... he should add or attatch weights to his ankles so so he can do 3-5 reps.


----------



## GoLdeN M 07 (May 8, 2006)

DiGiTaL said:
			
		

> are you high....



are u gay....


----------



## Favre (May 8, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> Well i dont work my abs because i kinda dont want to. I just have alot of knowledge about them and im trying to _*share *_them with other people.  If u dont believe me and think im talking bullshit   i dont care.
> 
> 
> And no if a guy can do more than 5 reps with hanging leg raises  he shouldnt just stop....... he should add or attatch weights to his ankles so so he can do 3-5 reps.



What board did you learn this info on? Was it a book or magazine? Where???

I'm just curious that's all.


----------



## assassin (May 8, 2006)

in super man and spiderman comics


----------



## mrmark (May 8, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> Well *i dont work my abs because i kinda dont want to*. I just have alot of knowledge about them and im trying to _*share *_them with other people.  If u dont believe me and think im talking bullshit   i dont care.
> 
> 
> And no if a guy can do more than 5 reps with hanging leg raises  he shouldnt just stop....... he should add or attatch weights to his ankles so so he can do 3-5 reps.



Why wouldn't you want to train your abs?


----------



## GFR (May 8, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> Well i dont work my abs because i kinda dont want to. I just have alot of knowledge about them and im trying to _*share *_them with other people.  If u dont believe me and think im talking bullshit   i dont care.
> 
> 
> And no if a guy can do more than 5 reps with hanging leg raises  he shouldnt just stop....... he should add or attatch weights to his ankles so so he can do 3-5 reps.


Please stop sharing your Jr, High knowledge son, my brain is about to explode.


----------



## GoLdeN M 07 (May 8, 2006)

Favre said:
			
		

> What board did you learn this info on? Was it a book or magazine? Where???
> 
> I'm just curious that's all.




dragondoor.com   and i got their book on ab training a while ago called bulletproof abs.


----------



## P-funk (May 8, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> dragondoor.com   and i got their book on ab training a while ago called bulletproof abs.




pavel?


----------



## GoLdeN M 07 (May 8, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> pavel?




yes sir


but i dont really go on dragondoor or get his stuff anymore. They've helped me *alot* so im done with em.


----------



## P-funk (May 8, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> yes sir
> 
> 
> but i dont really go on dragondoor or get his stuff anymore. They've helped me *alot* so im done with em.




I don't think Pavel says to add weight to hanging leg raises.  I could be wrong here but I have never heard that from him.


----------



## GoLdeN M 07 (May 8, 2006)

no im just saying that to apply intensity so the exercise would be done in low reps. You're not gonna get strong abs in high reps and a strong core=strong body so low reps are the best way to go. I got the whole GTG idea from pavel.


----------



## fUnc17 (May 8, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> I don't think Pavel says to add weight to hanging leg raises. I could be wrong here but I have never heard that from him.


 
My father has nearly every Pavel book/article printed and in binders (as well as VHS and DVD's). No where does he advocate weighted hanging leg raises. Pavel is very simplistic.


----------



## P-funk (May 8, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> no im just saying that to apply intensity so the exercise would be done in low reps. I got the whole GTG idea from pavel.




I wouldn't add weight to hanging leg raises for fear of fucking up my hip flexors.


----------



## GoLdeN M 07 (May 8, 2006)

no im just saying that to apply intensity so the exercise would be done in low reps, pavel didnt say that. You're not gonna get strong abs in high reps and a strong core=strong body so low reps are the best way to go. You can do dragon flags, janda situps, or standing wheel rollouts. I got the whole GTG idea from pavel.


----------



## P-funk (May 8, 2006)

fUnc17 said:
			
		

> My father has nearly every Pavel book/article printed and in binders. No where does he advocate weighted hanging leg raises. Pavel is very simplistic.




yea, pavel is very simplistic.

he says a lot of things....and a lot of it makes sense.....I think Golden needs to go back and re-read Pavel's books to get the idea behind it.


----------



## P-funk (May 8, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> no im just saying that to apply intensity so the exercise would be done in low reps. You're not gonna get strong abs in high reps and a strong core=strong body so low reps are the best way to go. I got the whole GTG idea from pavel.




the abdominals are stability muscles.  that is what they do....when you squat, when you deadlift, when you press things over head (and not do fucking gay lateral raises), your abdominals contract to form a girdle and stabalize the spine.

who the fuck cares if you do crunches or not.....for many people, ab exercises could be a bad idea because they cause excessive amounts of spinal flexion, exposing the disks.  

that is why i say the best ab exercises are stability exericses like planks or bird dogs, etc......doing them for extended periods of time (since the deep stabalizers of the spine and postural muscles are predominantly type I fibers).  Then take that stability and transfer it to a skill like deadlifting or squatting where your abdominals will gain lots of strength.


----------



## GoLdeN M 07 (May 8, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> the abdominals are stability muscles.  that is what they do....when you squat, when you deadlift, when you press things over head (and not do fucking gay lateral raises), your abdominals contract to form a girdle and stabalize the spine.
> 
> who the fuck cares if you do crunches or not.....for many people, ab exercises could be a bad idea because they cause excessive amounts of spinal flexion, exposing the disks.
> 
> that is why i say the best ab exercises are stability exericses like planks or bird dogs, etc......doing them for extended periods of time (since the deep stabalizers of the spine and postural muscles are predominantly type I fibers).  Then take that stability and transfer it to a skill like deadlifting or squatting where your abdominals will gain lots of strength.




Would having strong abs also increase ur bench in anyway? When u have strong abs  it becomes the powerhouse of ur body so every muscle in ur body becomes stronger (correct me if im wrong). I tried tensing my abs when benching but it didnt make a differance.

Second, how is military pressing a better lateral delt exercise than side lateral rasies?  Side lateral raises target the laterals, military presses use it as synergists and target the front delts.


----------



## JordanMang (May 8, 2006)

Abs do help on benchpress.  When you form an arch you're spine is lifting off of bench and you need to take that deep breath and tighten you're body to stabilize your spine, but you naturally do this so I don't know if actually "tensing" them will help but you do use them during benchpress.


----------



## P-funk (May 8, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> Would having strong abs also increase ur bench in anyway? When u have strong abs  it becomes the powerhouse of ur body so every muscle in ur body becomes stronger (correct me if im wrong). I tried tensing my abs when benching but it didnt make a differance.
> 
> Second, how is military pressing a better lateral delt exercise than side lateral rasies?  Side lateral raises target the laterals, military presses use it as synergists and target the front delts.




a) having strong abs will increase all of your exercises because you will have better stability.

b) no need to specifically tense your abs.  they will contract properly if you have trained them to stabalise and fire when they are supposed to.  I do focus on staying tight though on my exercises, especially squats and deadlifts.

c) no exercise is an isolation exercise.  it is impossible to isolate just one thing.  so, knowing that, why not get the biggest bang for your buck and work as many muscles as possible?


----------



## CowPimp (May 8, 2006)

GoLdeN M 07 said:
			
		

> Would having strong abs also increase ur bench in anyway? When u have strong abs  it becomes the powerhouse of ur body so every muscle in ur body becomes stronger (correct me if im wrong). I tried tensing my abs when benching but it didnt make a differance.
> 
> Second, how is military pressing a better lateral delt exercise than side lateral rasies?  Side lateral raises target the laterals, military presses use it as synergists and target the front delts.



In addition to what P said, a strong core will help you transfer the force from your leg drive to your upper extremities.

Also, military pressing doesn't necessarily target the front delts.  If you take a wide grip, like most people do, and press on the frontal plane then you could make an argument that the exercise is "targetting" the lateral delts.  Below about a 45 degree angle or so on the lateral raise your supraspinatus is doing a lot of the work anyhow.


----------

