# Pec Workout - not feeling the strain



## chrischarles (Jul 20, 2010)

Hi there.  This is a newbie question for sure, but I've been training hard for about 4 months now.  I do a 4 day split routine.

On one of the days, I focus on Pectorals.
I do 4 sets, and increasing weight / decreasing sets, last set to failure:

Bench Press (Dumbbell)
Machine Chest Press (Seated)
Bench Press (Smith Machine, Decline)
Bench Press (Smith Machine, Incline)
Pec Deck Flyes
Flyes (Cable, Bent Over)
Machine Chest Press (Incline)


My problem is that I don't feel the strain in my chest when I'm doing most of these exercises,  I feel it mostly in my arms (Triceps & Forearm).

The only exercise where I really feel my chest working is the "Pec Deck Flyes" .

With a mix of machines + free weights, is it normal that I feel it more in my arms than in my pecs, when I'm doing reps up until failure, especially for excurses that are supposed to isolate the pectorals?


Thanks for the advice in advance.


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## Phineas (Jul 20, 2010)

Even Arnold would have called that overkill.


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## Gazhole (Jul 20, 2010)

1. Widen your grip on bench by a finger or two and see how that feels.

2. Stop using the smith machine - do proper bench.

3. Cut down the number of exercises and sets you're doing. You do more sets for your chest in that single workout than i do for *my entire body in a week*!!! Think about that.

4. Do you really need to 'feel the strain'? Are you progressing in weight on the bar? Reps? Has your bodyweight increased if you're going for mass gain? If you don't know the answers to these questions then perhaps you should start paying greater attention to your training. Pick a more tangible and measurable indicator of success.


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## WeightGainNet (Jul 20, 2010)

Haha couldn't have said it better. Your muscles are probably just numb from overtraining.

Just kidding... But seriously - You need to focus the muscle contraction in your pecs. It's that simple.

And just to be clear, you don't need that many exercises for chest.



Phineas said:


> Even Arnold would have called that overkill.


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## SnowManSnow (Jul 20, 2010)

<- agrees with previous posts.

i'm still a noob, but when i FIRST started out i had to get past the pain = success mentality.  just because it hurts doesn't mean youre doing something good.  

push / pull heavy compound movements
eat right
rest
repeat 
= growth


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## BigBadWolf (Jul 20, 2010)

Yeah, you're overtraining a bit. Another possibilty is your arms/tri's are lagging/weakness. Cut some out of the chest workout and add a little more tricept work whenever you train them, see if you cant get them to strengthen up a bit.


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## ceazur (Jul 20, 2010)

You would probably get more size from just push ups then all that shit


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## chrischarles (Jul 20, 2010)

Thanks for all the feedback - I'll cut down on the excersies and focus on quality and cu out the smith machine as well.
I am gaining in mass, and to answer the question above, I am progressing in weight on the bar.

My pre-conception, was that I was supposed to be feeling the tighness in the muscle after the workout, the same as I do for the some of the other excercises.


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## Phineas (Jul 20, 2010)

chrischarles said:


> Thanks for all the feedback - I'll cut down on the excersies and focus on quality and cu out the smith machine as well.
> I am gaining in mass, and to answer the question above, I am progressing in weight on the bar.
> 
> My pre-conception, was that I was supposed to be feeling the tighness in the muscle after the workout, the same as I do for the some of the other excercises.



Tightness, soreness, pump, etc, doesn't necessarily mean anything. It's certainly no indication of quality of training.

For example, I always have the best pumps on days I'm not training. This is probably due to more water in my system, and no damage to the muscles?? Who knows. It doesn't matter. What matters is you're growing and getting stronger.


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## returnofthdragon (Jul 20, 2010)

Loose the machines and try some free weight then make sure you have proper form. If you are feeling it in the wrong spot it could be form.


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## PushAndPull (Jul 20, 2010)

Why don't you post your whole weight lifting routine. Just looking at this chest routine i'm positive you could use help in other areas.


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## Merkaba (Jul 20, 2010)

If you've been doing that routine I would suggest you take a week off and do no upper body work, carb load for the last two days and then go into heavy press movements.  

Make sure your squat game is on in the meantime.


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## shanemcdonald (Jul 21, 2010)

I had the very same prblem for the first year of training. Couldnt feel the strain in my pecs (other than a stretch when doing flyes), so here's a few tips i utilised..they definitely work.

1.  Reduce the weight, only slightly, but make sure its light enough to get every rep with a full range of motion (no bouncing, make sure bar touches your chest every rep).

2. Do heavy sets for chest for a few weeks. 2-6 reps in each set- i guarantee you'll feel the contraction (again, emphasise full range of motion).

3. Ditch the barbell, at least for a while. Going deep on dumbbell presses is the best way to 'feel' the muscle working.

4. ALWAYS keep your chest forward, as in pushed out, in front of your shoulders- never allow your shoulders to roll forward as this can irritate your front delts and will transfer most of the load to the shoulders and arms, which isnt what you want.

Hope this helps


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## rockhardly (Jul 21, 2010)

Wow!  Everyone must be in a good mood.  I saw his *"Pectoral Workout"* and figured he was about to get his ass torn up but........nope.  

A round of reps for everyone ON ME for helping this poor bastard out......!!!! 

And to the OP, listen to them.

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to PushandPull again"


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## aja44 (Jul 21, 2010)

Next time your in the gym, try the following for chest:

Flat Bench 3x6-8 with a 4/1/1/1 tempo (4 sec down, 1 sec hold on chest, 1 sec going up and then 1 sec at the top before next rep).  Try setting up with either your pinky or ring finger on the ring of the Olympic bar.

Incline DB - 3x6-8 using same tempo

DB or Cable Fly's - 2x10-12 - keep good form and hold for 2-3 seconds on each rep.

If you dont feel a pump in your chest after doing that then you need to make sure that blood is pumping to your pecks


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## juggernaut (Jul 21, 2010)

Gazhole said:


> 1. Widen your grip on bench by a finger or two and see how that feels.
> 
> 2. Stop using the smith machine - do proper bench.
> 
> ...


what the blimey said. He's a smart guy. 

I would also cut down on the volume as well. 

Strain is not indicative of progress. A simple way to measure as Gaz has said, is to perform the said amount of reps perfectly. Then increase. Very simple.


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## MMAWannabe (Jul 21, 2010)

Change your routine up frequently. Somtimes heavy with low reps, sometimes light with more reps. I don't think your workout is too bad, but I would hit fewer auxillarary lifts harder. Use a couple of  them one day and the others a different day.


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## DiGiTaL (Jul 21, 2010)

All machines? Are you joking me man.


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## PushAndPull (Jul 21, 2010)

MMAWannabe said:


> Change your routine up frequently. Somtimes heavy with low reps, sometimes light with more reps. *I don't think your workout is too bad*, but I would hit fewer auxillarary lifts harder. Use a couple of  them one day and the others a different day.



Then you need help as well.


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## MMAWannabe (Jul 21, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> Then you need help as well.


 
Not at all,but thanks. As long has he mixes it up it's not bad. I'm amazed how so many think there is only one way to do things and that is the best plan for everyone. Everyone is different and personally I think blasting 1-2 groups in a given day 1 time a week can be excellent...depending on your getitics and current condition.


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## juggernaut (Jul 21, 2010)

MMAWannabe said:


> Change your routine up frequently. Somtimes heavy with low reps, sometimes light with more reps. I don't think your workout is too bad, but I would hit fewer auxillarary lifts harder. Use a couple of  them one day and the others a different day.



dumb.


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## juggernaut (Jul 21, 2010)

MMAWannabe said:


> Not at all,but thanks. As long has he mixes it up it's not bad. I'm amazed how so many think there is only one way to do things and that is the best plan for everyone. Everyone is different and personally I think blasting 1-2 groups in a given day 1 time a week can be excellent...depending on your getitics and current condition.



another retard "mixing it up."


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## ceazur (Jul 21, 2010)

MMAWannabe said:


> Not at all,but thanks. As long has he mixes it up it's not bad. I'm amazed how so many think there is only one way to do things and that is the best plan for everyone. Everyone is different and personally I think blasting 1-2 groups in a given day 1 time a week can be excellent...depending on your getitics and current condition.



haha 7 exercises tho? your nuts


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## Phineas (Jul 21, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> another retard "mixing it up."



Go easy on him juggernaut -- he was only doing what P90X told him to do.


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## aja44 (Jul 21, 2010)

Phineas said:


> Go easy on him juggernaut -- he was only doing what P90X told him to do.


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## PushAndPull (Jul 21, 2010)

MMAWannabe said:


> Not at all,but thanks. As long has he mixes it up it's not bad. I'm amazed how so many think there is only one way to do things and that is the best plan for everyone. Everyone is different and personally I think blasting 1-2 groups in a given day 1 time a week can be excellent...depending on your getitics and current condition.



Doing 28 sets of chest is overkill, even if you're using light weight. He says he's mixing in free weight and machines, but 21 of the 28 sets are being performed on machines, that's not mixing it up. If he was lifting heavy weight, he wouldn't be able to do 28 sets. Using light weight is a problem if you're looking to gain size and strength in the primary muscle of your lift. His arms are likely getting tired, because of the high volume, light weight, routine he is using. I use high volume routines when I feel my secondary muscles need to be strengthened. This is basically what's happening with him but he doesn't realize it, because he's obviously inexperienced, just like you.


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## DiGiTaL (Jul 21, 2010)

You grow in the kitchen and in bed.


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## juggernaut (Jul 21, 2010)

Phineas said:


> Go easy on him juggernaut -- he was only doing what P90X told him to do.


my members ask me what I think of that shit system. I say, do you really want a gym owner to answer this question? It's shit. Keep coming to the gym and pay me money fucker.


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## MMAWannabe (Jul 21, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> another retard "mixing it up."


 
And you get your information where? Buddy at the gym? Getting educated doesn't always work by asking other lifters/bodybuilders. Sometimes B.S. info gets passed down just like old wives tales. Not all the info is bad, but some is way off.


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## MMAWannabe (Jul 21, 2010)

ceazur said:


> haha 7 exercises tho? your nuts


 

What I'm sayin his he should split his aux lifts. Do some one day and use the others for the next.


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## MMAWannabe (Jul 21, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> another retard "mixing it up."


 

So you are for doing the same thing day in and day out? Please tell me that's what you mean and I can stop taking anything you say seriously!


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## juggernaut (Jul 21, 2010)

MMAWannabe said:


> So you are for doing the same thing day in and day out? Please tell me that's what you mean and I can stop taking anything you say seriously!


yeah sure. thats what I do. I have a hard time accepting that you actually know anything about MMA. Thus, your name is accurately put-wannabe.


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## MMAWannabe (Jul 21, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> yeah sure. thats what I do. I have a hard time accepting that you actually know anything about MMA. Thus, your name is accurately put-wannabe.


 

I'm to old to get started in MMA. I wish to hell it had blown up when I was in my 20's doing martial arts ever day. I'm a wanna be because I wish I wasn't so farging old.

If you do the same crap all the time most people will plateau unless they are taking something (gear) to help them out. You didn't answer where you get your info. I would really like to know. I don't freaking know everything but I do have and exercise phys degree and work as a strength coach and have never had a problem with results and I've not dont the same thing for two weeks in a row for 15 years. I don't read (or conduct) as much research as I used too, but I'm far from a 'retard'. I do understand that everyone is different. What works for one may not work for the other.


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## juggernaut (Jul 21, 2010)

MMAWannabe said:


> I'm to old to get started in MMA. I wish to hell it had blown up when I was in my 20's doing martial arts ever day. I'm a wanna be because I wish I wasn't so farging old.
> 
> If you do the same crap all the time most people will plateau unless they are taking something (gear) to help them out. You didn't answer where you get your info. I would really like to know. I don't freaking know everything but I do have and exercise phys degree and work as a strength coach and have never had a problem with results and I've not dont the same thing for two weeks in a row for 15 years. I don't read (or conduct) as much research as I used too, but I'm far from a 'retard'. I do understand that everyone is different. What works for one may not work for the other.



I get my information from Muscle and Fitness. dont you?


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## MMAWannabe (Jul 21, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> I get my information from Muscle and Fitness. dont you?


 
Jesus I thought you were serious for a second. I really wouldn't have surprised me.The only magazine I ever found use full was Muscular 15 years ago when it was " all natural muscular" or some crap. They actually had articles that told you what research said, not their poor interpretation of it. Of course I was barely out of high school and maybe it was crap...but it wes better than anyone else I saw. At my age the closest thing to a magazine I use for information are journals from professional orgaizations. I can't say I agree with you 1%, but at least you are keeping it interesting.


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## juggernaut (Jul 21, 2010)

In all truthfulness, I get my information from PubMed, EXRX.net, google scholar and collegiate journals-most of these places are on the cutting edge of training and nutrition. It's my job, afterall. I own a gym and personal training as well as supp line with a business partner, so I do this all the time-research.


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## MMAWannabe (Jul 21, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> In all truthfulness, I get my information from PubMed, EXRX.net, google scholar and collegiate journals-most of these places are on the cutting edge of training and nutrition. It's my job, afterall. I own a gym and personal training as well as supp line with a business partner, so I do this all the time-research.


 

If that's true it's funny we have opposite opinions. I usually stick to journals and research from the american college of sports medicine, National strength and conditioning associatoin etc. And it is my job as well. I've never seen anything to lead me to believe keeping your workouts the same is a good idea or good for balanced physique development either.


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## juggernaut (Jul 21, 2010)

My work usually comes from those sources.


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## brk_nemesis (Jul 21, 2010)

chrischarles said:


> Hi there.  This is a newbie question for sure, but I've been training hard for about 4 months now.  I do a 4 day split routine.
> 
> On one of the days, I focus on Pectorals.
> I do 4 sets, and increasing weight / decreasing sets, last set to failure:
> ...



5 pressing exercises?


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## MMAWannabe (Jul 21, 2010)

MMAWannabe said:


> So you are for doing the same thing day in and day out?


 


juggernaut said:


> yeah sure. thats what I do.


 
Does this mean you are putting in your vote for trashing the forum sticky on designing a routine? I was just looking it over and except for the beginner program it has a lot of similarities to what I do.

From the sticky:
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/training/58699-guide-designing-routine.html

*Examples*

*Bodybuilder – Undulating Periodization*

Monday – Upper:

Overhead Press
Week A: 8x3 @ 5-6RM - 75sec RI
Week B: 3x12 @ 15RM – 30sec RI
Week C: 4x6 @ 8RM – 60sec RI

_*Different each week...................*_

*Powerlifter – Linear Periodization*

Monday – Squat Day:

Squat – RE to ME
Week 1: 4x12 @ 65%
Week 2: 4x10 @ 70%
Week 3: 3x8 @ 75%
Week 4: 3x5 @ 83% 
Week 5: 3x3 @ 88%
Week 6: 3x2 @ 90%
Week 7: 2x2 @ 95%
Week 8: 1x1 @ 100%
Week 9: 1x1 @ 105% - Attempt record

Accessory Work


Wednesday – Bench Press Day:

Bench Press – RE to ME
Week 1: 4x12 @ 65%
Week 2: 4x10 @ 70%
Week 3: 3x8 @ 75%
Week 4: 3x5 @ 83% 
Week 5: 3x3 @ 88%
Week 6: 3x2 @ 90%
Week 7: 2x2 @ 95%
Week 8: 1x1 @ 100%
Week 9: 1x1 @ 105% - Attempt record


_*Also different each week...................*_


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## juggernaut (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm not saying that all; what I am referring to, and as it looked what you stated-is that just go by feeling. That, in my opinion is a mistake. I'm more of a "setup the routine on periodization basis". This can go from workout to workout or week to week, or 10 weeks and so on. My point is, what is wrong with a good setup that hits the body once or twice a week, and that's it? Baby got Back is quite possibly once of the most effective routines ever developed in my opinion. Every base is covered from strength to endurance. Plus, it has a ton of research rooted into its development. 
Look on Marianne's (Built) article site or Google it. Also, take a look at Gazhole's thoughts on periodization. He wrote a great article series on it and it really brings home my point.


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## juggernaut (Jul 22, 2010)

Also, to get the best bang for the buck-PFunk came out with an ebook that cornerstones my clients' routines, because I deal with major players in the corporate world, they dont have the hour and a half that some will likely have. They need to get in and get out within 45 minutes. The name of the book is called "Take Charge". I'm a great believer in all 3 of the mods mentioned above.


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## MMAWannabe (Jul 22, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> I'm not saying that all; what I am referring to, and as it looked what you stated-is that just go by feeling. That, in my opinion is a mistake. I'm more of a "setup the routine on periodization basis". This can go from workout to workout or week to week, or 10 weeks and so on. My point is, what is wrong with a good setup that hits the body once or twice a week, and that's it? Baby got Back is quite possibly once of the most effective routines ever developed in my opinion. Every base is covered from strength to endurance. Plus, it has a ton of research rooted into its development.
> Look on Marianne's (Built) article site or Google it. Also, take a look at Gazhole's thoughts on periodization. He wrote a great article series on it and it really brings home my point.




Thanks I'll check out the info. I always set up the workout with a plan. I can say for myself, I have short time in the gym, but I can go everyday if I want too. I hit it very hard and unless I'm running something I'm typically to sore to do it again for several days. For those reasons I typically do it like the power lifter example above. 1 or 2 core areas. When working with groups of athletes this does change depending on how often I have them. Usually they are only there 3 days a week, for which the program will be adapted.  I'm not worried about not getting results, over the past 5 years I've changed locations twice, the athletes always starting making great gains once on my program. The gains were always much greater than they had experienced before. Many local records were broken.


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## ryan92 (Jul 29, 2010)

hectic workout dude, im suprised your chest isn't like boobs haha jks, chill out mate


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## Gazhole (Jul 30, 2010)

Putting in another reccomendation for what Jugg said.

Built's BGB routine is fantastic and the amount of people who've seen results from it says volumes more than any flowery sentence ever could.

I've also read P-Funk's book cover-to-cover like ten times and frequently go back to it when people ask me for a sure-fire simple way to get results.

I'm also flattered to even be mentioned in the same paragraph as those two, so when you get done with their stuff feel free to give my site a read.


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