# DES for injuries or IGF LR3?



## wraggejxk (Mar 18, 2012)

[FONT=&#23435]DES for injuries or IGF LR3? 
Anyone have experience with this?[/FONT]


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## aminoman74 (Mar 19, 2012)

DES isn't good for injury as its life is only minutes unlike LR3 life is 20-30 minutes.Iv tried this myself and LR3 was king for this.


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## Pittsburgh63 (Mar 19, 2012)

Yep. LR3 is where it's at.


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## aminoman74 (Mar 19, 2012)

Typo the lr3 is 20-30 hours.


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## Pittsburgh63 (Mar 19, 2012)

^^^ sure is.. didn't even notice that.


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## Riles (Mar 20, 2012)

since lr3 active life span is 20-30 hrs, does that mean once per day protocal? is there another pep that has a synergistic properties when run in conjunction with lr3 ?


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## Pittsburgh63 (Mar 20, 2012)

There are nice cycle layouts that leave us open to options.. Here's my favorite, 

IGF Des Pre-workout
MGF post workout
wait 15 - 20 mins. pin ghrp/ghrh combo
15-20 minutes pin IGF lr3

Peg MGF on your off days.


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## oufinny (Mar 20, 2012)

If you want to run just one compound, I highly suggest IGF-1 LR3.  If you want to do something that does not require the use of carbs after injection like LR3 does, I suggest a combo of CJC-1295/Ipa or GHRP-2/Ipamorelin.  I did the former and I did get some nice relief.  Another option my rat is currently getting amazing results from is TB-500, it is once a week.


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## Riles (Mar 20, 2012)

Thank you Pittsburgh63 and oufinny, that helps me narrow my reading to a more specific group of peptides.


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## Pittsburgh63 (Mar 20, 2012)

Happy to help brother.. don't hesitate if you need any questions answered down the road.


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## aminoman74 (Mar 21, 2012)

Riles said:


> Thank you Pittsburgh63 and oufinny, that helps me narrow my reading to a more specific group of peptides.



You must not like my info LOL


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## Riles (Mar 21, 2012)

aminoman74 said:


> You must not like my info LOL



I apologize aminoman74, I appreciate your input also, thank you


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## Kleen (Mar 21, 2012)

I think the regular MGF would be a waste for healing an injury other than muscular in nature. The circulation in the white connective tissue is too low for it to actually receive much of it and instead it would be absorbed by damaged muscle tissue instead. However the Peg MGF would be great for injury recovery, and probably more so than IGF-1 Lr3, since MGF is specifically meant to heal and repair damaged tissue. However the 2 of them combined is one hell of a good combination for both healing and growth. 

The TB500 is also supposed to be really good and I know Houston said his elbow has improved even more since he has been on it. Doses are up in the air here. Some say do 10mg week one and 5mg for the next 5 weeks then you find others who do well off of 6 weeks at 2g per week. There is a small amount of anabolism and some elevated fat burning to be experienced as well but it is a secondary effect.


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## TwisT (Mar 21, 2012)

Heres the correct answer to your question..... the above advice is wrong 

TGF-?? during inflammatory phase of the injury, and then *DES* for tendon repair and growth as it has shown to have the highest ability of collagen synthesis out of the 10 major growth factors that effect tendon repair after injury. 

-T


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## Riles (Mar 21, 2012)

Thanks TwisT, I'm affraid when I'm done educating myself on healing specific peps my current injuries will be gtg. Oh well, education is priceless and I wont kid myself about being injury free forever, thanks again


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## Pittsburgh63 (Mar 21, 2012)

TwisT said:


> Heres the correct answer to your question..... the above advice is wrong
> 
> TGF-?? during inflammatory phase of the injury, and then *DES* for tendon repair and growth as it has shown to have the highest ability of collagen synthesis out of the 10 major growth factors that effect tendon repair after injury.
> 
> -T



Des is great for tendon repair.. but so is LR3.  I could pull studies pointing the other direction too... but it's all subjective information for the most part. I appreciate that you don't agree with what was stated above.. But it is far from Wrong.


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## aminoman74 (Mar 21, 2012)

Thanks pit for your last response.


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## TwisT (Mar 21, 2012)

Pittsburgh63 said:


> Des is great for tendon repair.. but so is LR3.  I could pull studies pointing the other direction too... but it's all subjective information for the most part. I appreciate that you don't agree with what was stated above.. But it is far from Wrong.



I agree, both are good, but he was asking which is superior.. and DES was shown to have a slightly superior effect in terms of collagen sythesis in a 2010 study... ill do my best to pull it up but they tested all the growths factors, including IGF variants on collagen in humans. Which would make DES, not lr3, the absolute best choice in the (OP: des or lr3 for tendon injury) question. Non-subjective 

I have first hand experience with EGF, Insulin, TGF, AR, and a few IGF's in rats. You can take my word for it


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## Pittsburgh63 (Mar 21, 2012)

I can respect that.. I like how you slid that "slightly" in there.  LOL.  I like des for rehabing a particular problematic area.. but lately now that I'm becoming "middle aged"  I prefer LR3.  Helps nicely with my acute pains as well as those little aches that plague many of us from years of abusing our joints.

Where the hell have you been by the way?


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## TwisT (Mar 21, 2012)

Youre right, it was "slight". It wasn't by much, but it was enough to be significant and be shown pretty clearly in the data to be able to conclude superiority. Normally, in research if the said difference is small enough, it will normally not be concluded as any "better or worse". 

I Like Lr3 too, but theres just too many cons for me. I like having more control.  

I've been away and very busy working on some research, learning from some *seriously* brilliant people..makes me look like a toddler. But im trying to be more active around here... I've been slacking i know  



Pittsburgh63 said:


> I can respect that.. I like how you slid that "slightly" in there.  LOL.  I like des for rehabing a particular problematic area.. but lately now that I'm becoming "middle aged"  I prefer LR3.  Helps nicely with my acute pains as well as those little aches that plague many of us from years of abusing our joints.
> 
> Where the hell have you been by the way?


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## Pittsburgh63 (Mar 21, 2012)

Happy to have you back.  Always great to have the opportunity to learn from brilliant minds.  I try to leach off of them whenever I have the chance.  LOL


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## aminoman74 (Mar 21, 2012)

I used DES for my tendon and it didn't do jack but when I used lr3 it helped alot.I had to spot injected i tho. Right nex to the tendon.


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## TwisT (Mar 21, 2012)

Me too man, I love working with people much smarter then me, you learn so much and very quickly. But sometimes its like they are speaking in another language... 



Pittsburgh63 said:


> Happy to have you back.  Always great to have the opportunity to learn from brilliant minds.  I try to leach off of them whenever I have the chance.  LOL


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## Pittsburgh63 (Mar 21, 2012)

TwisT said:


> Me too man, I love working with people much smarter then me, you learn so much and very quickly. But sometimes its like they are speaking in another language...



No doubt.. but i usually respond better to trial by fire.  I like getting thrown in over my head.  Get sooo much more out of it... plus it holds my interest.  If things are slow to even moderately paced, I tend to lose that motivation.


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## Riles (Mar 23, 2012)

spot injection concerns me, is it a must? or just better on a case by case basis? I have gone over it with my PT and his Anatomy books and it just looks like it would be better left to someone more qualified than myself, some tendons look like they would be less hassle than others but my biceps tendon will have to heal on its own, I'm just not that brave


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## Pittsburgh63 (Mar 23, 2012)

Spot injections are necessary for Des.. for LR3 you can pin IM or Subq and it will distribute throughout.


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## Riles (Mar 23, 2012)

Thank you Pittsburgh63


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## Pittsburgh63 (Mar 23, 2012)

Very Welcome Riles.


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## SMALLbaby (May 18, 2012)

Pittsburgh63 said:


> There are nice cycle layouts that leave us open to options.. Here's my favorite,
> 
> IGF Des Pre-workout
> MGF post workout
> ...



how long can you run this combo?  i mean DES and LR3? do you cycle LR3 every 4-5 wks and keep DES all the time? same for MGF
is it true that DES,if used 3on 1 off can be used permanently like RS said ?

thanks!!


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## Pittsburgh63 (May 18, 2012)

LR3 should be cycled 4-5 weeks on, then the same off.  Des can be run indefinitely when using it for Preworkout only.


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## SMALLbaby (May 18, 2012)

thanks for quick reply.
when using des,is the effective dose same as LR3, 40-100mcg, and when used together does the amount of of IGF add up(like if u use 50mcg DES and 50LR3, does it mean its 100mcg ). sorry for any "stupid" questions but I see ppl here know their stuff so its better to ask then to be sorry.

thanks again in advance!


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## Pittsburgh63 (May 18, 2012)

SMALLbaby said:


> thanks for quick reply.
> when using des,is the effective dose same as LR3, 40-100mcg, and when used together does the amount of of IGF add up(like if u use 50mcg DES and 50LR3, does it mean its 100mcg ). sorry for any "stupid" questions but I see ppl here know their stuff so its better to ask then to be sorry.
> 
> thanks again in advance!



Des is actually stronger than LR3.   Des dose should also be split bilaterally and injected IM.. example being, 100mcg dose.. 50mcg's in to right delt, 50mcg's in to left delt.  50 is an "average" dose, 80mcg's is a "moderate" dose, 100mcg's is a "high" dose.

Des should be administered 15-20 minutes preworkout.. and LR3 about 15-20 minutes (assuming no other peps are involved) Post workout.  By the time the LR3 is administered the Des will be long gone from your system.


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## SMALLbaby (May 18, 2012)

Pre Workout
- 15 min pre 60mcg DES Bi-Lat


Post Workout 
- 15 min Post workout 200mcg MGF Bi-Lat
- 15 min after MGF Dose GHRP/CJC Combo 100mcg of each
- 20 Min After GHRP Combo Dose 60mcg IGF-LR3 Sub Q


Non Workout Days
Dose PEG MGF 200mcg Sub Q
ghrp2/cjc 150mcg or more upon wakeup and before bed.

Workout Days:
- 100mcg GHRP-2 & 200mcg cjc-1295 w/o Dac ( Morning, Post Workout 15min after MGF Dose, Pre Bed)



  i was planning on running it like this. very much like the plan you wrote


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## SMALLbaby (May 31, 2012)

bump.

anyone? pitt?


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## TwisT (May 31, 2012)

DES for joint/tendon repair.


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## SMALLbaby (May 31, 2012)

how many times can i inject say into my pec cuz i had pec tear last year i and i wish to bring it up a little bit.


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## TwisT (May 31, 2012)

SMALLbaby said:


> how many times can i inject say into my pec cuz i had pec tear last year i and i wish to bring it up a little bit.



you can inject as many times as you are comfortable with. keep sites 1in away from eachother


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## SMALLbaby (May 31, 2012)

that can be done on daily basis  not just when i work that muscle?


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## SMALLbaby (Jun 5, 2012)

anyone? im really interested in this. can i take DES into my pec even if i am not training that bodypart?


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## Pittsburgh63 (Jun 5, 2012)

SMALLbaby said:


> anyone? im really interested in this. can i take DES into my pec even if i am not training that bodypart?



Yep.. no problem with that.


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## SMALLbaby (Jun 6, 2012)

on another board one guy wrote this cycle example:

Lr3 first thing in morning 50-100 mcg

Des igf 100mcg pre-workout.

Do it every other day with peps on the off-days.

-Matt 		

this makes any sense?


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## Pittsburgh63 (Jun 6, 2012)

SMALLbaby said:


> on another board one guy wrote this cycle example:
> 
> Lr3 first thing in morning 50-100 mcg
> 
> ...




I don't like it.. personally wouldn't run them that way.


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