# Re-learning the deadlift



## Phineas (Jun 18, 2010)

For the last several programs I had been using deadlift variations like romanians and, particulary, sumos. I started cutting 2 weeks ago and decided to resume conventional deadlifting. Well, I was very surprised when I went to perform my first conventional dead in about 3.5 months and it felt very unusual. My lift was terrible!!! The weight wasn't at all challenging, but I forgot my form!!!

I've had 3 or 4 lower pull (and upper push) sessions since starting cutting, and already my form is ALMOST back to normal. I'm slowly re-finding my groove. It was a big blow to the ego, though. In January I was maxing on 8 reps with 245, and my first deadlift session on my cut I was struggling to get 225 for 4 reps. The weird part as I mentioned was my hams/glutes and even my back weren't feeling too challenged. Somethign was just off that I had to stop for no apparent reason.

I'm spending a lot of time re-researching (lol) the deadlift to remember how it was that I use to perform them. It's all good now. I predict two or three more sessions and I'll be back at my best.

I decided to never remove conventional deads again. They're too technical for me to neglect, even for variety. I'll add variations where applicable, but I'll always keep the standard.

Anyone ever have this problem?


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## Flathead (Jun 18, 2010)

I could see where it would be easy to lose your form after not doing an exercise for 3+ months. I personally believe there's no real replacement for traditional deads. I'm not saying variation isn't important, but traditional deads/squats to me are foundation exercises. This is from a power lifter's point of view, though,


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## PushAndPull (Jun 18, 2010)

I need a serious reason, such as injury to replace pull-ups, traditional deadlifts, or back squats in a routine.


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## Gazhole (Jun 18, 2010)

Just keep at it dude. Go ridiculously light and do high rep rest paused singles for a few sets. Basically do like 50 reps, but rest pause them into single reps, and really get the form perfect.

Sometimes can be a good addition to regular sets, or even replace them for a week or two. At this stage considering your form isnt 100% great, adding fatigue to that isn't going to help you re-learn it any quicker.

Its fucking weird doing loads and loads of reps split into singles, but it works lol.


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## Phineas (Jun 18, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> I need a serious reason, such as injury to replace pull-ups, traditional deadlifts, or back squats in a routine.



Agreed. After experimenting with variations of all of these I've concluded that I will remove the original, classic lifts. Bench press I could care less about, but the three mentioned are too valuable.

However, I do have a soft spot for close-grip V-bar pullups/chinups (whatever you want to call them when it's neutral grip..). However, after not doing conventional pronated grip pullups for a long time and then resuming them and remembering how challenging they are I won't neglect them as much. I think I'll switch between them. I prefer the range of motion in close-grip V-Bar, but conventional pullups requires much more brute grip power and general full-body control while stabalizing. Close grip gives you a more condensed centre of gravity where you can focus more on your lats. Conventional pullups are more of a full-body coordinated effort, IMO.

Then there's chinups, which are somewhere in between, but that's another discussion....

Point is...deads and back squats are superior. I could care less about Zercher this and straight-legged that. Put a barbell on the ground, let me deadlift it, then put another barbell on my back, let me squat it, and DAMNIT!..I'm a happy man.


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## Phineas (Jun 18, 2010)

Gazhole said:


> Just keep at it dude. Go ridiculously light and do high rep rest paused singles for a few sets. Basically do like 50 reps, but rest pause them into single reps, and really get the form perfect.
> 
> Sometimes can be a good addition to regular sets, or even replace them for a week or two. At this stage considering your form isnt 100% great, adding fatigue to that isn't going to help you re-learn it any quicker.
> 
> Its fucking weird doing loads and loads of reps split into singles, but it works lol.



Good tips.

Oddly enough, it's on the lighter sets that I can't get my form down right. The lift will be even easier, but it's just because the load isn't right.

I'm weird in this way but on certain lifts I need a minimum amount of resistance to perform the lift at my best. There's something about a certain resistance that almost forces my body into the comfortable position so that I can counter balance the resistance. Like, with the deadlifts, I made a major breakthrough last night in recalling my form: after months of sumo deadlifting, I had gotten use to the bar being further from my shins, and so I pulled the BB closer to my shins, which in turn increased the angle of my back for the intial pull, and it felt much more comfortable. 

The thing is, because of my height and length of my arms I've always been a very very deep deadlifter. While most people I see deadlifting have a back position of about 35-45 degrees (on sumos, with the decreased ROM, I was at around 35 degrees..that was easier for me, lol...). However, I deadlift very deep, with a back position of about 15-20 degrees at the most. This makes conventional deads very challenging for me, as my hams have a greater amount of more pulling relative to my body than other lifters. 

What was happening before last night is I was overthinking my back position and going too far down, to the point where my back was nearly parallel to the ground. This made the intial pull way too awkward. 

I pulled the BB closer in which naturally brought my back angle up, and helped me remember my normal "slingshot" or "pulley system" approach to deadlifting. It helped me remember how I use to pull with my hams as opposed to simply squatting the weight up like I did in my first year of BB'ing.

The only issue I still have is maintain my hip drive throughout the reps. The weight isn't a challenge. I was deadlifting 235 last night for reps and it wasn't even challenging in the least. What was challening was maintain the technical form throughout. I got use to the simpler lift of the sumo where you don't need to pay attention to your position, as you become essentially "locked in" to position. Sumos are by far much easier than conventional deads.

So, I predict a few more sessions and it will all be good. I have, however, noticed a strength increase in my hips from the sumos. Even though for the reps I was doing 235 wouldn't have normally been sub-maximal, I could still feel the BB going up significantly easier than the last time I was doing conventional deads. I also think a lot of this is in my mind. I had that problem with squats recently -- getting over a plateau. It's one of those things where you just have to disregard your inhibitions and, as Tiger Woods would proudly quip, "just do it" (or, in his case, 'them').


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## FMJ (Jun 18, 2010)

It's like you said.. it's such a complex move.. there's so many things to remember when doing them. I sometimes forget something after not doing them for a couple weeks. It's certainly not like riding a bike. I swear, I actually go through a "checklist" of shit when I'm setting up just so I don't forget something. 
Definitly the hardest one for me to perform correctly.
Definitly the easiest one to injure myself if I don't perform correctly so it warrents the extra prep time.


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## dave 236 (Jun 18, 2010)

Muscle memory is so important.(I've actually had to take a day to relearn to benchpress with a barbell after using only dumbells for 3-4 weeks)it's one reason why I never go more than a week or two without squats and deads.The truth is you are one of the guys that push us all to keep form first in our minds so I'm not that worried that you'll find it soon.


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## Viciony (Jun 18, 2010)

People really over-think the deadlift which is usually the cause for doing it wrong. Simply think- Back straight, lift with legs+back at the same time. Dont jerk at the start. Its standing up, you learned how to stand when you were an infant. Now learn to do it with weight 

Goodluck man


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## Phineas (Jun 18, 2010)

Viciony said:


> People really over-think the deadlift which is usually the cause for doing it wrong. Simply think- Back straight, lift with legs+back at the same time. Dont jerk at the start. Its standing up, you learned how to stand when you were an infant. Now learn to do it with weight
> 
> Goodluck man



I think that's a gross oversimplification of a deadlift, honestly. There's nothing incorrect about "overthinking" a deadlift. Certain plyometric lifts and olympic powerlifting aside, it's easily the most technical lift -- one which, when performed incorrectly, can lead to serious injury. 

When I said I was overthinking it I didn't mean I was overthinking the lift itself; I meant I was overthinking how I used to do it. Everyone eventually finds their own niche with deadlifts. I use to have them down perfectly. I still know the mechanics of the lift (by the way, you actually don't lift with your back - you lift with your hams/glutes...the rest of the posterior chain is simply a carrier of the resistance).

You can have a straight back and not jerk the weight and still not reach optimum performance. It's all about the individual's unique proportions. 

And, please don't ever compare deadlifting to an infant standing up.


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## FMJ (Jun 18, 2010)

Phineas said:


> I think that's a gross oversimplification of a deadlift, honestly. There's nothing incorrect about "overthinking" a deadlift. Certain plyometric lifts and olympic powerlifting aside, it's easily the most technical lift -- one which, when performed incorrectly, can lead to serious injury.
> 
> When I said I was overthinking it I didn't mean I was overthinking the lift itself; I meant I was overthinking how I used to do it. Everyone eventually finds their own niche with deadlifts. I use to have them down perfectly. I still know the mechanics of the lift (by the way, you actually don't lift with your back - you lift with your hams/glutes...the rest of the posterior chain is simply a carrier of the resistance).
> 
> ...


 
Agreed! You cannot think enough about this lift. Like I said, there's a list of shit you have to do right, Shoulder back, chest out, hips back, arms straight, back straight, head forward... 
And I don't lift with the back at all. More like driving the legs into the ground and bringing my hips forward. It's certainly not as easy as standing up. That's obvious in the videos posted on how to incorrectly do a deadlift. It takes practice to get it right and a few pulled back injuries too!


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## Gazhole (Jun 19, 2010)

On heavier sets i have problems with hip drive also. Got a 1RM last week, and while the rep was fine in terms of back alignment etc, i didn't drive my hips through enough, and my legs were pretty much straight by the time the bar was done passing my knees, haha. Had to basically romanian deadlift it for the last part.

Thank god i do a lot of heavier rack pulls, or that would have been a failed lift for sure.


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## r00kie (Jun 19, 2010)

Well the starting position is very important in a deadlift. Personally I cannot stay in starting position for too long because my hams are completely stretched. Chest up, back flat and hips as high as possible...

If one is built for conventional DL, then knees will not go past the bar too much...So keep your hams in a stretched position in order to have an almost vertical shin.


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## davegmb (Jun 19, 2010)

I have to think about each rep carefully especially when i get tired, otherwise my form turns to rat sh*t


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## fufu (Jun 19, 2010)

Well how long did you stop doing conventional deadlifts before you started doing them again? 

You said you started cutting two weeks prior before resuming them right? 

Your form may not be the only (or biggest) factor involved in your weaker deadlift. It could be due to the deficit in calories and it could be that you haven't done them in a couple weeks (if i am reading what you wrote correctly). A combination of those two factors will make anyone weaker in a specific lift.


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## alterntego (Jun 19, 2010)

you mentioned earlier that you are cutting . how much do you weigh. at 22 and being a prior long distance runner  your probably light in the can (no offense ) that extra body fat would help cushion alot of things . plus at you age i was more concentrated on size and strength . you have alot of time to grow so i wouldnt be robbing the body of the nutrients if i were you . IMHO


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## MDR (Jun 19, 2010)

The deadlift is the most difficult lift in my opinion.  It is very easy to develop bad habits, even after years of pulling.  Other than learning the snatch, it is the toughest lift to get right consistently.  (At least it was for me).  Go to any power lifting meet, and you will see experienced lifters making errors in their form.  Great idea to re-evaluate from time to time.  Very important to have others witness your form and point out form problems as well.


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## Phineas (Jun 19, 2010)

fufu said:


> Well how long did you stop doing conventional deadlifts before you started doing them again?
> 
> You said you started cutting two weeks prior before resuming them right?
> 
> Your form may not be the only (or biggest) factor involved in your weaker deadlift. It could be due to the deficit in calories and it could be that you haven't done them in a couple weeks (if i am reading what you wrote correctly). A combination of those two factors will make anyone weaker in a specific lift.



It was about 3-3.5 months without conventionals. Was using romanians and then sumos for a while.

I started cutting just over 2 weeks ago, and started a new low-volume push/pull split to go with it. Conventional deads are my lower pull.

I'm certain it's a form memory issue and not the deficit because all my other lifts have remained, including squats. I even made a PR the other night on incline DB chest press. Even on deads I've made major improvements since my first session. Like I said, it's such a technical lift that once you find your niche you're set. I just took too much time off of it and need to find my groove. Like, it's not as though I can't deadlift right now. I'm still pushing decent numbers. It's just that compared to my 245 x 8 in January it's not right that at the moment I'm deadlifting 235 for 5. The weight feels easy, but once I get to rep 4 it just feels "off". You know when you're doing something like squats or cleans and nothing particularly is wrong like DOMS or low energy but something just doesn't feel "right"? It's like that. But, it's getting more and more comfortable.



alterntego said:


> you mentioned earlier that you are cutting . how much do you weigh. at 22 and being a prior long distance runner  your probably light in the can (no offense ) that extra body fat would help cushion alot of things . plus at you age i was more concentrated on size and strength . you have alot of time to grow so i wouldnt be robbing the body of the nutrients if i were you . IMHO



Umm, lol, first of all, I quit running nearly 2 years ago. I was about 140-145 lbs then....start of my cut 2 weeks ago I was 195 @ approx 12% BF, maybe a bit lower, so I can assure you I'm not "light in the can". I've been bulking for over a year and a half, so this cut is in good time. Also, I'm not "robbing" my body of nutrients. I have my macros perfectly calculated. I'm still learning to get down my refeeds, as I'm still over the 50g fat suggestion. However, I'm still emphasizing carb and overall calorie intake. Nevertheless, after 2 weeks I've seen about 3-4 lbs lost with no muscle gone. For my first cut, I think that's pretty good. I'm giving myself the summer to go through with it, so that's plenty of time to gradually drop the BF.


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## Viciony (Jun 19, 2010)

Oh sorry man, you're right. I dont compete in the deadlift or anything so what would I know 



Phineas said:


> I think that's a gross oversimplification of a deadlift, honestly. There's nothing incorrect about "overthinking" a deadlift. Certain plyometric lifts and olympic powerlifting aside, it's easily the most technical lift -- one which, when performed incorrectly, can lead to serious injury.
> 
> When I said I was overthinking it I didn't mean I was overthinking the lift itself; I meant I was overthinking how I used to do it. Everyone eventually finds their own niche with deadlifts. I use to have them down perfectly. I still know the mechanics of the lift (by the way, you actually don't lift with your back - you lift with your hams/glutes...the rest of the posterior chain is simply a carrier of the resistance).
> 
> ...


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## Phineas (Jun 19, 2010)

Viciony said:


> Oh sorry man, you're right. I dont compete in the deadlift or anything so what would I know



Huh???

Are you a competitive power lifter? If so, I'm surprised you view the deadlift so simply.


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## Viciony (Jun 19, 2010)

Yeah I am. I do agree that there is a wrong way to do it, and most people do it wrong. But I think you cant just go to online forums as have people say " No you need to do this this and this ". You have to perfect it on your own, over time. You learn one piece at a time. First, simply standing up, as I said. Then, focus on improving - keep your back straight and head up. Once that's down, move to forearms and glutes during the lift. Then, move on to traps and shoulder flexation. No one deadlifted perfectly the first time, probably not even the 10th. You start by learning to stand with your legs and the back at the same time and go from there.

So simply put, learn to stand with the weight, as i said. Then when you want to improve your dead and move up in weight without hurting yourself, that's when you get into the specifics.

Edit: and I didnt even notice you were the thread starter. You should't be so negative to people trying to help you on a subject that they have much more knowledge than you in. If you'd honestly like help, I might suggest recording yourself doing a dead, and posting it so people can help identify what you are doing wrong.


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## Phineas (Jun 20, 2010)

Viciony said:


> Yeah I am. I do agree that there is a wrong way to do it, and most people do it wrong. But I think you cant just go to online forums as have people say " No you need to do this this and this ". You have to perfect it on your own, over time. You learn one piece at a time. First, simply standing up, as I said. Then, focus on improving - keep your back straight and head up. Once that's down, move to forearms and glutes during the lift. Then, move on to traps and shoulder flexation. No one deadlifted perfectly the first time, probably not even the 10th. You start by learning to stand with your legs and the back at the same time and go from there.
> 
> So simply put, learn to stand with the weight, as i said. Then when you want to improve your dead and move up in weight without hurting yourself, that's when you get into the specifics.
> 
> Edit: and I didnt even notice you were the thread starter. You should't be so negative to people trying to help you on a subject that they have much more knowledge than you in. If you'd honestly like help, I might suggest recording yourself doing a dead, and posting it so people can help identify what you are doing wrong.



Well, for a deadlift "expert" you really oversimplify the movement. It's not just "standing up". First of all, no one stands up in that specific pattern. Secondly, to simply suggest standing up ignores the proper mechanics of the lift, and usually leads lifters to incorrectly pull with their backs -- as when the lifters neglects to focus on the hams/glutes they tend to use their backs.

Also, what are you talking about with shoulder flexion? There is no movement of the scapula whatsoever. The involved joints are the knees and hips. A lot of lifters pull their lower back inwards and squeeze their shoulder blades at the top of the concentric, but that's not actually part of the lift. You straighten up, that's it. This is a hamstring/glute lift (primarily), not back and shoulders.

Also, I'm only arguing technicalities of an important lift because my goal on this forum -- aside from obtaining information for personal research -- is to help our younger members develop good training habits from the start so that they can avoid all the mistakes and wasted time many of us endured when we were beginners. Someone coming on here and saying all the deadlift is is standing up with a straight back and yada yada is not the best instruction to these younger lifters who don't yet understand the mechanics of the muscular system. 

And, criticizing a member of our board for not listening to you because you "know much more knowledge on the subject" is not a good way to earn a reputation on this board, and I'm not talking about the rep points but an actual reputation with our members. We all appreciate knowledge and willingness to help, but modesty is also a virtue.

Besides, I would think a deadlift "expert" would have more to say then "stand up like an infant".


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## Mike09100 (Jun 20, 2010)

Phineas said:


> This is a  hamstring/glute lift (primarily), not back and shoulders.




LOL

ur an idiot.


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## Phineas (Jun 21, 2010)

Mike09100 said:


> LOL
> 
> ur an idiot.



And, why is that?

Deadlifts ARE a hamstring/glute exercise. The back is worked indirectly through isometric tension, which means it's not contracting as the primary muscle(s). While the entire posterior chain is involved in the lift, it's the hamstrings and glutes which actually contract and pull the weight up like a pulley system. The back is simply the carrier of the weight. The origin of exertion is the hips.

Contrary to popular belief, deadlifts are a leg exercise -- not a back exercise.

You, good sir, are the idiot.


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## FMJ (Jun 21, 2010)

Mike09100 said:


> LOL
> 
> ur an idiot.


 
You're calling Phineas an idiot?? 
The guy knows more about fitness than 90% of the members on IM!
But if that's not enough for you...

Barbell Deadlift

Dumbass.


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## PushAndPull (Jun 21, 2010)

Mike09100 said:


> LOL
> 
> ur an idiot.



Nothing like handing out insults when you're clearly wrong


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## MDR (Jun 21, 2010)

Don't let it bother you, Phineas.  You can't have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.  Just consider the source and don't waste your time. The rest of us appreciate your comments and feedback.


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## Phineas (Jun 21, 2010)

MDR said:


> Don't let it bother you, Phineas.  You can't have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.  Just consider the source and don't waste your time. The rest of us appreciate your comments and feedback.



Thanks man, but it didn't bother me. I think it's funny. However, when someone argues me when I know I'm right I just have to argue. Stubborness runs in my family, lol.


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## Phineas (Jun 21, 2010)

FMJ said:


> You're calling Phineas an idiot??
> The guy knows more about fitness than 90% of the members on IM!
> But if that's not enough for you...
> 
> ...



I'm just a 22-year-old who shares what I know. Believe me I'm no expert. Leave that to Gaz, Built, Prince, Juggernaut, and those type. In time, but I've been in this sport for not even two years. I just share what I do know. Most of my detailed responses are aimed at beginners getting started correctly. I ask LOTS of questions, though.

The first step to learning is admitting ignorance, and I have no problem doing that!

By the way, thanks for backing me up with a source! I love shooting down the deadlift-as-a-back-lift myth. Seriously, the day I finally understood the mechanics of the deadlift was the day my form immediately corrected and my numbers went up by 30 lbs for 10 reps. I don't argue deadlift mechanics because I'm a dork for technicalities; I argue because thinking of deadlifts as a back exercise usually leads to improper and potentially dangerous form (as they're trying to lift with their backs).


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## MDR (Jun 21, 2010)

Probably bugged me more than you!  Just wanted you to know that your commentary is valuable to a lot of us on this site.  I agree 100% about admitting ignorance; I've been lifting for a very long time and I learn a great deal from this forum.


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## Phineas (Jun 21, 2010)

MDR said:


> Probably bugged me more than you!  Just wanted you to know that your commentary is valuable to a lot of us on this site.  I agree 100% about admitting ignorance; I've been lifting for a very long time and I learn a great deal from this forum.



Thanks man. Appreciate the kind words.

And I agree, this is an excellent board. Not only have I learned a lot here but I've also been encouraged from many of our members to conduct my own research.


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## davegmb (Jun 21, 2010)

I learnt my deadlift off this guy's videos and before every lift i try to go through it in my head. Phineas your one of the good guys, dont worry about the immature comments, still loving the routine you worked out for me 






YouTube Video


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## alterntego (Jun 21, 2010)

are you guys for real ? are you reading from a book or are you actually lifters. i do deads on my back day right after pullups and guess what ? i feel like a silver back . ya it absolutely hits the glute and ham , but mother of god there is nothing better for my back than this lift . it all works synergistically . my back is one of my greatest attributes and its from the wicked dead . real life stuff baby. and as far as questioning phineas , you too should question him as well . you should question every man . i've trained w/ national ranking power lifters and i didnt agree w/ everything they preached either . nothing against you phin . thats just how it is


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## Merkaba (Jun 22, 2010)

Of course I've seen ones form go to the crapper due to over thinking an exercise.  Try to remember, you're basically squatting down and picking up heavy shit.  How would you go about it doing that effeciently?  ..... then do that


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## FMJ (Jun 22, 2010)

alterntego said:


> are you guys for real ? are you reading from a book or are you actually lifters. i do deads on my back day right after pullups and guess what ? i feel like a silver back . ya it absolutely hits the glute and ham , but mother of god there is nothing better for my back than this lift . it all works synergistically . my back is one of my greatest attributes and its from the wicked dead . real life stuff baby. and as far as questioning phineas , you too should question him as well . you should question every man . i've trained w/ national ranking power lifters and i didnt agree w/ everything they preached either . nothing against you phin . thats just how it is


 
Yeah, no shit... your back gets hit by a deadlift too. That wasn't the issue. The issue was Phin was being called an idiot for saying the deadlift was a ham/glute dominant exercise. Are you gonna tell us it's not too?
Yeah, we're for real... yeah, we're lifters.. and yeah, we read shit from books too. Just because someone can deadlift, doesn't mean they are doing it correctly. I'll question Phineas, when he says something I disagree with but as for this topic, he was spot on and being insulted for it. 
No one was questioning the proper form, or the individuality of how it's performed. Only what the deadlift was dominantly for. It's not a back day exercise. It's a leg movement. Just like Bench press isn't a tricep exercise and bent rows aren't a bicep exercise.


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## Flathead (Jun 22, 2010)

Phineas @ no point said that deads don't work your lower back, he said it's a ham/glute dominate exercise!!!!!!!!! Deads workout your neck, that dosen't make it a neck dominate exercise. Their aren't too many muscles in your body that deads or squats don't workout to some degree. That's why these two lifts are a must, especially for power lifters.

Flathead


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## Phineas (Jun 22, 2010)

Flathead said:


> Phineas @ no point said that deads don't work your lower back, he said it's a ham/glute dominate exercise!!!!!!!!! Deads workout your neck, that dosen't make it a neck dominate exercise. Their aren't too many muscles in your body that deads or squats don't workout to some degree. That's why these two lifts are a must, especially for power lifters.
> 
> Flathead



I said deads work the hams/glutes primarily, because those are the target muscles. The back, traps, delts, forearms, biceps, quads, adductors, calves, abs, etc, are worked indirectly.


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## Phineas (Jun 22, 2010)

Merkaba said:


> Of course I've seen ones form go to the crapper due to over thinking an exercise.  Try to remember, you're basically squatting down and picking up heavy shit.  How would you go about it doing that effeciently?  ..... then do that



I could maybe see a person pysche themselves out for preparing too long for a deadlift, but as for "overthinking" the lift I can't see that. 

I get everyone's point that it's a simple lift in the sense that you're really just squatting down and picking up weight. But, if you were to tell that to a beginner, to just squat down and pick up the barbell, can you imagine what the lift would end up looking like? Just because a lift is simple in concept doesn't mean it can't be complicated in delivery.

The issue with the deadlift versus most lifts is that if a certain position isn't maintained by the lifter (at that position depends on their unique proportions), then the workload will shift from the target hams/glutes to probably the back.

I don't view the deadlift is standing up. If from the squatted starting position I were to just "stand up" my back would probably round badly, as I would push too much with my quads and shift the centre of balance to the front of my body. A deadlift is a pull, and so the posterior chain acts as a pulley system.


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## Phineas (Jun 22, 2010)

View attachment 27608

You might need Adobe to view this pdf. It scanned sideways, so just click "view" and "rotate counterclockwise".

Excuse the terrible artwork.


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## FMJ (Jun 22, 2010)

Phineas said:


> View attachment 27608
> 
> You might need Adobe to view this pdf. It scanned sideways, so just click "view" and "rotate counterclockwise".
> 
> Excuse the terrible artwork.


 
My GOD Phineas, you're a terrible artist!


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## Phineas (Jun 22, 2010)

FMJ said:


> My GOD Phineas, you're a terrible artist!



You're just jealous that you don't have a lizard tongue and mohawk. 

Admit it, FMJ! Just admit it!!!


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## FMJ (Jun 22, 2010)

Phineas said:


> You're just jealous that you don't have a lizard tongue and mohawk.
> 
> Admit it, FMJ! Just admit it!!!


 
 The lizard tongue _would_ make me more popular.


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## Phineas (Jun 22, 2010)

FMJ said:


> The lizard tongue _would_ make me more popular.



Plus, the ladies LOVE IT.


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## qwerty001 (Jul 8, 2010)

could you please explain how this 'pulley' system works?? i dont quite get the drawing...lol...you also said that once you understood the mechanics of the deadlift it improved your form...is there something i can read to understand the mechanics behind it?


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## Phineas (Jul 8, 2010)

qwerty001 said:


> could you please explain how this 'pulley' system works?? i dont quite get the drawing...lol...you also said that once you understood the mechanics of the deadlift it improved your form...is there something i can read to understand the mechanics behind it?



Basically, when lifters who don't understand the deadlift view it as simply standing up they put too much emphasis on the front of their feet and wind up shifting their centre of balance forwards. It's as though they're trying to make it a quad-dominant lift like a squat. This is often why lifters round their back; they're not lifting with the proper muscle contraction.

The pulley system is just a name I came up with to explain the proper mechanics of a deadlift. Your posterior chain acts as a pulley system, with the origin of exertion being the hams/glutes.

Imagine a ski chair lift. They start at the bottom of the mountain where there's usually the heaviest, strongest gears and equipment. This would be the hamstrings/glutes -- the dominant muscles in a deadlift. The cable continues up the slope of the mountain (i.e. the back), and usually bends over the top of the slope and flatens out where it drops the skiiers off (i.e. traps). 

When a deadlift commences, (ideally) the hamstrings and glutes contract and begin to pull on the entire posterior chain. As this happens, the elongated hams/glutes increasingly shorten from their stretched position and bring the back and shoulders up back to a parallel. The back does no actual pulling; it's simply a carrier for that cable.

While you'll certainly feel the back a great deal in deadlifts, you shouldn't be lifting with it. Let your hams/glutes pull the weight, and take your back out of the equation. It will get its work through isometric tension.

When I fixed my deadlift form last fall it was after reading a book on bodybuilding psychology. It taught me a lot about focussing on target muscles to better understand what you're really doing with your body. If you can visualize all the muscles involved, and how they're assisting each other, you gain a better understand of the muscular system, and it seems to make all lifts flow much better.


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## rockhardly (Jul 8, 2010)

Phineas,

Why are there 2 pulleys on the ground?


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## Phineas (Jul 8, 2010)

rockhardly said:


> Phineas,
> 
> Why are there 2 pulleys on the ground?



oh, hahah, just to make sure people understood what that was supposed to be...the drawing was made quick and messy, so I thought I'd do that just to show what I was trying to get across

thanks for asking

just to be clear, the pulling from bottom to top is hamstrings/glutes (with some tension in the calves) all the way up to the traps and down and around to the upper arms, forearms, and of course the palms


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