# Whey Protein, Jack3d, and Xtreme Tren--trying to get "big"



## t3knix (May 18, 2010)

Alright folks, here's the thing: My best friend (who doesn't have internet) is trying to gain solid muscle mass. He weighs about 130 fully clothed and soaking wet. He is very solid with the muscle he has but he wants to get to be about 150 at least (where he would be huge). I'm not very experienced with supplements and I was trying to get some help. I have been reading on here that Xtreme Tren should not be taken under 25 due to possible stunting of growth, so that is out of the picture. I also have read that Jack3d is for more blood flow and doesn't really do anything besides increase intensity of the workout. He usually has a protein shake or two during the day. I know one factor is his diet. His intake of food is terrible. He loves beer, Dr. Pepper, and McDonalds. It's hard to tell a guy how bad he is eating when he weighs less than I do. Are there any suggestions, besides a good diet, that I could give this guy about some supplements? I've seen Con-Cret and I really like how it is "pure" instead of having the proprietary blend that I see a lot. Spending a fortune isn't an option because he is 19 and has payments on: his kid, 2008 F-150, insurance, direct TV, and rent...all while making about 12 an hour and working full time. Thanks guys (and possible ladies) in advance.


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## t3knix (May 18, 2010)

Richard Gears said:


> He needs food and lots of it.



That's what it seems like, but he eats A LOT. Average person eats 2 pounds a day, he is pushing 3 at least


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## SilentBob187 (May 18, 2010)

> He loves beer, Dr. Pepper, and McDonalds.


...skinny people can die from cardiovascular disease too.  They can also get diabetes.



t3knix said:


> That's what it seems like, but he eats A LOT. Average person eats 2 pounds a day, he is pushing 3 at least



Food should be measured in calories.  If he can add up his total caloric intake for a day, as well as include the amt of protein, carbs, and fats we will probably be able to find out why he isn't gaining weight

Don't waste your time with those 'other creatines.'  Just look for a Creapure form of Creatine Monohydrate.  Primordial Performance carries it as well as Prolab Nutrition.  That plus some protein powder, a PROPER DIET, and dedication to his goals will allow for great things for your friend.


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## t3knix (May 18, 2010)

I'll ask him to try to measure his caloric intake for the day as well as the calories from fat, protein, and carbs. He has a very strict workout and it works for him, he just hasn't gotten any size from it. 

I'll keep that protein in mind. Is it pretty cheap?


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## SilentBob187 (May 18, 2010)

t3knix said:


> I'll keep that protein in mind. Is it pretty cheap?



That creatine is very cost effective, yes.


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## PushAndPull (May 18, 2010)

Here are my thoughts.




t3knix said:


> Alright folks, here's the thing: My best friend (who doesn't have internet) is trying to gain solid muscle mass. He weighs about 130 fully clothed and soaking wet.



At 19 he shouldn't need any pre-workout supplement.
At 130 he shouldn't need any protein powder, all should come from diet.
At such a young age i've seen people eat a ton of shit food, workout and still gain muscle/strength, at least in the beginning. Leads me to suspect "your friend" doesn't even consistently workout.


He doesn't need supplements, he needs dedication.







t3knix said:


> He is very solid with the muscle he has but he wants to get to be about 150 at least (where he would be huge).



He would not be huge at 150 unless he's a midget.


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## t3knix (May 18, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> He would not be huge at 150 unless he's a midget.


 if he was a solid 150, he would be really big. He is 5'9" and very lean. By solid I mean if he packed on 20 pounds of muscle

He doesn't have access to a nice gym so he just does what he can with what he has, which consists of: weight bench, curling bar, bench bar, and a few weights. He is able to perform leg extensions and leg curls on the bench also

this is said friend, another friend, and I at prom two years ago. He is on the far right looking high and has big ears. I'm in the middle, and another friend is on the left.


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## PushAndPull (May 18, 2010)

t3knix said:


> if he was a solid 150, he would be really big. He is 5'9" and very lean. By solid I mean if he packed on 20 pounds of muscle



You mean he would be really big at 150 compared to what he was at 130?
At 5'9 150 would be average not big, not even close to big. I'm 5'9 190 right now and when i'm done cutting I should be about 170 and I would consider that decent size, but still not big. 5'9 150 might be big in your circle of friends, but for the rest of the world he would be average.




t3knix said:


> He doesn't have access to a nice gym so he just does what he can with what he has, which consists of: weight bench, curling bar, bench bar, and a few weights. He is able to perform leg extensions and leg curls on the bench also



This doesn't tell me much. There is alot a person can do with a barbell, curl bar, and bench. A few weights could be enough for him or it couldn't. I suspect your friends biggest problem is his workout routine, with his diet coming in a close second.

My advice:

Ask for advice in the training forum. Get and post your friends current workout routine(exercises and reps & sets) along with what he's working with(equipment) and what goals he is looking to achieve. You'll get alot of good feedback there that will help you and him design a good routine. Also take a look at the stickies there.

Ask for advice in the diet & nutrition forum. State his goals(e.g. gain muscle) and his typical diet. Also take a look at the stickies there.


These two areas, both diet and training is all your friend needs to be concerned with, not supplements.


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## Hutchym8 (May 19, 2010)

Dude you and your mate can spend all the money in the world on supplements... but if you aint eating right n busting your balls in the weight room it wont make a difrnce if your smashing junk food and shit into your body. Iv been ther and tried to take the shortcuts and blown so much money on supps, its all bulshit, iv cut down to prety much no suplements and tightned my diet up and eating foods more often instead of drinking shakes and im thickining up and getin beter results then when i was blowin 300 bucks a week on supps! Just becouse your mate is eating a shit load of food... if its mostly rubbish and junk food the calories are rubbish, dont tel us you cant put on weight unless youv calculated your calories and the break downs and youv given eating over 3000 cals a real crack for a few months first, you will get biger.
if your mate doesnt want to listen to your advice and wat you learn here.... fuk him and let him watch you get massive!


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## ca_iron (May 19, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> Here are my thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I agree here. I think supplements can come in handy once he has mastered diet and proper nutrition, and most importantly effective training. Once he feels he is reaching a plateau in terms of progress, supplements can then become more effective. Think of them as your backup plan to exceed your current state, if you use the backup plan right now what will you use later on? Instead, leverage what you can do without them (free).

An important element for hardgainers is also training (type of training and frequency), if they train properly that will influence their metabolism and thus impact their eating habit, meaning get hungry quicker and add calories easier...etc. There are few books out there that I would recommend if you are interested, but they all agree on one fact: compound exercises are the most effective such as squates, bench press, deadlift ..etc. He is better off for now using Full body routines rather than split routine, this will help bulk and add strength.

Again, focus on nutrition and exercise. At his age, he needs to experiment on those two until he finds what works for him best (everyone is different). Then, after that he can start thinking on spending money on supplements (at least he will know where he needs help at since the supplement world is massive). At his age, his hormones are still high, and his energy levels (hopefully) should be high as well.

Good luck


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## t3knix (May 21, 2010)

ca_iron said:


> I agree here. I think supplements can come in handy once he has mastered diet and proper nutrition, and most importantly effective training. Once he feels he is reaching a plateau in terms of progress, supplements can then become more effective. Think of them as your backup plan to exceed your current state, if you use the backup plan right now what will you use later on? Instead, leverage what you can do without them (free).
> 
> An important element for hardgainers is also training (type of training and frequency), if they train properly that will influence their metabolism and thus impact their eating habit, meaning get hungry quicker and add calories easier...etc. There are few books out there that I would recommend if you are interested, but they all agree on one fact: compound exercises are the most effective such as squates, bench press, deadlift ..etc. He is better off for now using Full body routines rather than split routine, this will help bulk and add strength.
> 
> ...




This all makes more sense to me. I'm not a supplement user and I'm actually trying to cut right now. He really is trying to take the easy way out and take short cuts. I told him about watching what he eats a lot more and his first response was, "do I have to stop drinking?" Luckily he listens to me. I'm the exercise guy, he is the car guy. I am going to try to help him out this weekend because he is coming to visit me and I'll take him to my gym and show him some workouts and try to get a good nutrition plan for him. Thanks everybody for the input. I'm glad it will be done based on diet and exercise rather than using supplements. He would spend his whole paycheck on it if he could. 

Thanks guys


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## cxpharm (May 24, 2010)

I mean, you could inquire about the real stuff, but if your trying to keep it legal here Whey is good. 

Whey should be taken in if he's not eating healthy (taking in ample amounts of protein). If he is, it's honestly not necessary IMHO, but it will not hurt him.

CREATINE is a big one. If he starts taking that he's going to bulk up relatively fast.

I'd only recomment JACK3D if he has trouble pumping himself up and pushing himself in the gym. If he does not, it's not necessary at all, and not going to do much for gaining mass.


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## cxpharm (May 24, 2010)

Oh, and tell him to eat healthy, and eat ALOT if he wants to gain weight.

He obviously has a high metabolism if he's eating like that and not gaining weight, so he's going to have to eat a solid amount of protein rich food and eat around 4 times a day to see gains in muscle.


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## PushAndPull (May 24, 2010)

cxpharm said:


> I mean, you could inquire about the real stuff, but if your trying to keep it legal here Whey is good.



Why would he inquire about gear if he's just starting out? How pussy would that be? 




cxpharm said:


> CREATINE is a big one. If he starts taking that he's going to bulk up relatively fast.



Creatine is not going to make you bulk up, food will.


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## GregW (May 29, 2010)

training +1000


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## CaptainNapalm (May 30, 2010)

Supplements of any kind will only be a waste in his attempt to get big and strong if his diet is beer, chips and macdonalds. Your friend can get excellent results through a sound diet alone and no supplements and horrible results if his diet is poor and he takes the best supplements in the world. In fact, your friend can even take steroids and if his training and especially diet are not in check he will yield poorer results than through implementation of good diet and training program alone. This should tell your friend the importance of correct eating, training and rest. Once he gets his diet in check the supplements I would recomment are: Creatine Monohydrate and Weigh Protein. That's it, simple.


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## MDR (May 30, 2010)

I tend to minimize supplements as well.  I like Whey and Creatine mono, along with fish oil and a scoop of carb supp. in my protein after training.  Oh yeah, a multi-vitamin, too.    So much stuff out there, I'd rather spend my money on what works-food and AAS.


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## CaptainNapalm (May 30, 2010)

MDR said:


> I tend to minimize supplements as well. I like Whey and Creatine mono, along with fish oil and a scoop of carb supp. in my protein after training. Oh yeah, a multi-vitamin, too. So much stuff out there, I'd rather spend my money on what works-food and AAS.


 
Yes I've been taking fish oil religiously for the past 5 months and it has benefited me in many ways but this I think is taken more for health reasons rather than in an effort to promote muscle mass.  But yeah fish oil all the way.


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## fitness chick (Sep 29, 2010)

I know it's been a while since anyone has posted to this thread, but I saw CON-CRET in the initial post and thought I would respond...I am very familiar with CON-CRET, and yes it's a very safe, pure creatine HCl that has no additives or stimulants.  Because of its solubility, there's no need to load or cycle with CON-CRET.  Instead, you only need to take small amounts (Creatine Micro-Dosing, a 1/4 tsp per 100 lbs of body weight) for great results in strength gains and endurance in intensive work-outs, as well as muscle recovery.  Unlike creatine monohydrate, there's no side effects experienced when taking CON-CRET, no bloat, cramping, water retention and GI distress.  Therefore it's a great creatine for young people to take.  Many of those other supplements out there have other ingredients mixed in that could be harmful to your body long-term.  If you are looking for mass gain though it can and will be built if you combine hard work-outs with lots of calories, mostly from high-protein rich diets.  Doing so will give your body the food-fuel it needs to add bulk as well as strength.  CON-CRET allows people to achieve whatever gains they want...just with a well-crafted exercise and diet plan.


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