# Forced feeding



## 190 (Feb 19, 2011)

Quick stats... 31, male, 6'1", 165 lbs... Up from 150 lbs. (aprox. 4 mnths)
Any recommendation on how to increase hunger w/o forced feeding? I used to accept the "fact" that i was a "hardgainer"... After educating myself i learned that "hardgainer" is bullshit and i just dont eat enough. My body was comfortable with around 2500 cal/day. To actually gain, i have to consume more than 3500 cal/day. The problem i am having is that i dont like to force feed and i feel REALLY tired after stuffing myself. I have tried doing 3 big meals and doing 6'ish smaller meals with about the same results as far as lethargy goes. I have concidered GHRP-6 to increase appetite, but not sure if i want to go there just yet. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## klc9100 (Feb 19, 2011)

EQ (equipoise)

http://www.napsgear.net/injectable-steroids-c21/gp-bold-200-equipoise-p76


----------



## sassy69 (Feb 19, 2011)

What does your diet look like? I was going to suggest looking at calorie-dense food so you're getting "more" out of what you eat. I'm also interested to see what you're eating that is leaving you lethargic.  I'm curious if you've ever had your test levels checked? Full blood work recently? If you're low T or maybe thyroid, you might locate the source of your lethargy?


----------



## shortstop (Feb 19, 2011)

google high calorie foods or healthy high calorie foods and incorporate them into your diet. add things like peanut butter and olive oil(2 tbsp each) to your protein drink. eat sunflower seeds throughout the day. raisins are high in calories, theyre high in sugar too so you want to limit them to post workout. thats got to be about 700 cals right there. you should be able to gain on 3000 calories with your weight anyway


----------



## klc9100 (Feb 19, 2011)

in addition to the EQ, you can add EVOO (extra virgin olive oil) to whey shakes. it adds an easy 100 to 150 cals (the good ones).


----------



## 190 (Feb 19, 2011)

@ Sassy - I have been tracking roughly 3300 - 3900 cal/day, fat 140 - 213, carb 198 - 377, pro 170 - 193.

@ klc - REALLY want to go that route... but want to make sure i have everything straight prior to, starting with diet,

@ Shortstop - i have been throwing in the olive oil, PB, cottage chz, ect.. and have had good results other than being tired.

biggest concern is keeping up the high cals and lower the lethargy.


----------



## klc9100 (Feb 19, 2011)

190 said:


> @ Sassy - I have been tracking roughly 3300 - 3900 cal/day, fat 140 - 213, carb 198 - 377, pro 170 - 193.
> 
> @ klc - REALLY want to go that route... but want to make sure i have everything straight prior to, starting with diet,
> 
> ...


 
400 to 500 mg per week of EQ with 250 mg of test E per week for the win . . .


----------



## 190 (Feb 19, 2011)

klc - i am with you, and will be heading that direction in the future. Just not ready to take that jump yet for more reasons than one. For me right now the 15 lbs of progress is HUGE! I know at some point i will stop gaining this way and will then look for alt. ways to continue (EQ, TEST, ect), until then, if i can kick this tiredness and continue to gain that is the route i am going to go.


----------



## shortstop (Feb 20, 2011)

190, your 31. so am i. i kicked my tiredness in the nuts with caffeine. and btw there is nothing fictitous about the term "hardgainer"


----------



## 190 (Feb 20, 2011)

Shortstop - I am sure there are some actual hadrgainers out there. As it relates to me, and it sounds like alot of other people it was just lack of eating and/or not much focus on my diet IRT what to eat. I have used caffine and it works decent for energy, but again it makes me not want to eat. Ideally i am looking for a way to increase appetite. I would much rather want to eat, than force myself to eat.


----------



## Built (Feb 20, 2011)

190, I have yet to meet a true hardgainer. They all respond very, very well to feeding.


----------



## 190 (Feb 20, 2011)

Built - I agree. I used to think i ate alot mostly based on how full i felt. So yeah... Not a hardgainer... Just underfeed!


----------



## gtbmed (Feb 20, 2011)

I read some good advice from Dave Tate on this subject:

When you're bulking, try to get more calories per bite.  You want to eat calorically-dense foods like olive oil, peanut butter, etc.


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Feb 20, 2011)

gtbmed said:


> I read some good advice from Dave Tate on this subject:
> 
> When you're bulking, try to get more calories per bite.  You want to eat calorically-dense foods like olive oil, peanut butter, etc.


Ah you beat me too it. Nuts, olive oil, and milk are good high calorie things that wont fill you up too much. I thought I was a hard gainer too but I gained 38 pounds in a year a while ago. I took years off and lost it but I have been back about a month and I'm up about 17 pounds again.


----------



## 190 (Feb 20, 2011)

@ GTB & ihate - I have been using the more cals/bite idea with success. The issue i am having is the lethagy/tiredness after force feeding. I realize to gain i have to eat more than what feels comfortable. When i do this all i want to do is rack out for a couple hours. Looking for info on maybe changing up carb to fat ratio, thought that might help with lethargy.


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Feb 20, 2011)

Im exactly the same size as you and I never have to make myself feel uncomfortable eating. How many times are you eating a day? I eat 4 real meals a day and have a few snacks and get 3500+ cals in a day. My snacks are like a serving of peanuts and 24oz of chocolate milk and that's about 700 calories right there.


----------



## 190 (Feb 20, 2011)

I would love to hear back from Sassy & Built just based their experiance lvl & and ihate based on the 38 lbs in one year (natural i am guessing). @ Sassy sorry for the last reply (only included diet) I do get an annual physical, but nothing beyond Doc sayin "your GTG". No real info on test lvl's. ect. unless they are bad.


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Feb 20, 2011)

Ya it was natural. Well on my way to doing it again too


----------



## 190 (Feb 20, 2011)

Thanks for getting back so quick... Not sure if age has anything to do with it. You look pretty young in your pix (if that is you). Like i said earlier i felt "comfortable" @ about 2500 cal/day. But to gain i know i have to EAT... That being said, the extra cals (or maybe carb/fat ratio) is making me tired. In your experiance what did/didnt work for you as far as ratio's go, or what did you do to compensate for the change in your diet? Gaining 30+ lbs in a year, natural is a hell-of-an accomplishment to me. So please share your thoughts/ideas with me!





ihateschoolmt said:


> Im exactly the same size as you and I never have to make myself feel uncomfortable eating. How many times are you eating a day? I eat 4 real meals a day and have a few snacks and get 3500+ cals in a day. My snacks are like a serving of peanuts and 24oz of chocolate milk and that's about 700 calories right there.


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Feb 20, 2011)

190 said:


> Thanks for getting back so quick... Not sure if age has anything to do with it. You look pretty young in your pix (if that is you). Like i said earlier i felt "comfortable" @ about 2500 cal/day. But to gain i know i have to EAT... That being said, the extra cals (or maybe carb/fat ratio) is making me tired. In your experiance what did/didnt work for you as far as ratio's go, or what did you do to compensate for the change in your diet? Gaining 30+ lbs in a year, natural is a hell-of-an accomplishment to me. So please share your thoughts/ideas with me!


Im 21 and I was was 15-16 when I gained all that weight and some people told me it was just cause I got older but when I stopped working out and eating I went right back down to my original weight, maybe like 3 pounds more haha. 

I never really had a problem feeling tired, I just make sure I' never hungry and eat 6-7 times a day, eating 3 1200 cal meals a day would be awful and not work as well. Can you post what you ate today? You don't need to post how many cals are in each or anything.


----------



## 190 (Feb 20, 2011)

Ihate - I dont care if your 21, 31, 51. Right now for me it is about educating myself. As far as my diet today... i have a bit more time and less going on, with it being Sunday (family/friends time).

3 eggs
3 pancakes
hashbrowns
sausage patty
syrup/real butter on everthing
OJ

Pro-shake w/ olive oil, whole milk, ice cream
Double stack PB&J sandwhich
choco milk

MCD (yeah i know)
Bacon double chz bgr
lrg fries
lrg swt tea
lrg shamrck shk

yougurt/cottage chz mix
choco milk
beef jerky

Red Robin (i know again)
Zuchinni (sp) appetitizer
huge Jalepeno buger 
Onion rings
Green sweet tea

about to have 
Haagen..dazs
bowl of cereal w/ whole milk

At any rate i would love feed back. Mon - Fri is a little more focused. the in between meals are about the same, but the lunch and dinner usually include more veggies and lean meats (chicken/turkey, ect).


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Feb 20, 2011)

Red Robbin isn't so bad (minus onion rings) but McDonald's, yea you already know what I'm going to say about that... Looks like you got the right idea for sure, as long as you stay away from fast food. If you are force feeding maybe try making the meals more even in size. 6 smaller meals really isn't so bad and it makes sure you have an even intake of nutrients all day, I would try to eat more the last mean since you won't be eating for 7-9 hours (10 if you're me). Let me see if I can find an old journal that had my diet in it real quick...


----------



## Built (Feb 20, 2011)

190, you're eating a lot of carbohydrate, and that can make a lot of people tired. How about loading up on fats instead?


----------



## 190 (Feb 20, 2011)

@ Built & ihate - Thank you again, people like you are why i am here! Built - what do you have in mind? Lately i have been doing/eating what i can/when i can (basically the SEE-FOOD diet). Ihate - What worked for you? There had to be changes in phys/emo state after gaining 30+ lbs in one year? Please let me know!


----------



## Built (Feb 20, 2011)

190, you've had some excellent suggestions. Do you happen to have an idea of your current macronutrient mix?


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Feb 20, 2011)

Meh I'll just post what I ate today and I don't know if this will help but I don't have a problem eating this much so maybe it can help you...

1pm(yes this is when I wake up)
Meal 1: 24oz chocolate milk whey protein 48g protein ~750 calories
3pm
Meal 2: orange, 2 servings honey roasted peanuts, 16oz juice 12g protein 600 calories (usually I eat more this meal but I knew I was about to eat a good dinner)
5pm
Meal 3:sauage, chicken, beef, brown rice, onions and yellow peppers, olive oil
guessing about 50g protein and ~700 calories
6pm
meal 4 24oz chocolate milk 24g protein 630 calories
8pm
meal 5: same thing as meal 3 cause that shit was good, 50g protein ~700 cals
10pm 
meal 6: more peanuts and some ice cream 15g protein 350 calories
1-2am (haven't eaten it yet)
meal 7: Probably some pasta olive oil and red sauce with sausage in it and some juice(maybe milk) 30g protein ~600cals

so that's about 4k calories and 230g protein. Some people think I eat too much or not the right stuff but I have gained about 17 pounds in about a month and I am the same body fat (abs visible still) so it's working for me and it's hard to argue results. I did have some muscle memory on my side and I didn't progress quite so fast the first go around. I hope that helps cause I spent a long time typing that haha.


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Feb 20, 2011)

190 said:


> @ Built & ihate - Thank you again, people like you are why i am here! Built - what do you have in mind? Lately i have been doing/eating what i can/when i can (basically the SEE-FOOD diet). Ihate - What worked for you? There had to be changes in phys/emo state after gaining 30+ lbs in one year? Please let me know!


Hell ya I felt different. I went from being embarrassingly skinny to one of the stronger kids my age at the time. I got more than twice as strong too. Some times it's hard to get those cals in but just eat smaller meals often and try not to make yourself too full, that's when to laziness kicks in. Most of all make sure you are never hungry.


----------



## 190 (Feb 20, 2011)

Built - i dont have a current macronutrient mix. Like i said earlier, it is kinda a SEE-FOOD diet... meaning eat what i can when i can. I really havent been concerned about how everything worked together until now. right now for me, it is all about EATING constantly. Now with the lethargy issue, do you think it would be advisable to change up the carb/fat ratio?


----------



## Built (Feb 20, 2011)

I don't know what your carb/fat ratio IS, my friend. That's why I asked what your current macro mix looks like. FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal chop chop!


----------



## 190 (Feb 20, 2011)

@ Built - WILL DO CHOP CHOP! Seriously tho thanks again!


----------



## 190 (Feb 20, 2011)

@ Built - is this site set up for those trying to "drop pounds"?... I entered my info and it said "Your goal weight is greater than your starting weight". Yeah that's kinda the idea?


----------



## Built (Feb 20, 2011)

Just fake that part. They don't let you put it in the way you want.

Fuckers.


----------



## 190 (Feb 20, 2011)

A little frustrating to say the least (fuckers)... It keeps kicking me back w/o saving the info (goals,ect).


----------



## 190 (Feb 20, 2011)

@ ihate - i am with you on the choco-milk... I am having a tough time finding "whole choco-milk"... It is usally the 0-2% BS... The big fulcuation in my cal & pro lately has been egg nog! I love it! Unfortuanately egg nog season is over!


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Feb 20, 2011)

buy whole milk and add herseys syrup that's what I do. I think it tastes way better than premade chocolate milk anyways.


----------



## 190 (Mar 4, 2011)

@ built - I started using fitday based on your input... kind of a pain in the ass... is there any benifit to using it other than being electronic? I have a better success using pen/paper to track cal/carb/fat? Not trying to bust on the system your pushing, and i am open to suggestion, i just dont see many benifits above and beyond pen/paper?


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Mar 4, 2011)

Nah just use a pen and paper if you want.


----------



## Noghri73 (Mar 6, 2011)

It took me a little bit to get used to fitday, but it gets easier.
I found I ate similar foods throughout the week, and fitday makes it easy to duplicate.

It can also find caloric info on foods for you.
But nothing wrong with just using paper.


----------



## ManInBlack (Mar 6, 2011)

sometimes you just have to eat and suck that shit up. write out a diet plan and what times you will eat what meals and make sure even if you feel like you cant eat it OR you are not hungry, fuck it, just eat that shit anyway.  I just slammed 2 cups of wheat pasta, a peanut butter sandwich and 2 cans of tuna and GET THIS, i was NOT hungry before i ate it. you can do it man


----------



## ManInBlack (Mar 6, 2011)

oh yeah, i have seen some mentions of fit day. i personally use livestrong.com to track my food they have EVERYTHING on there that you can think of as far as foods go. you can also enter in your own shit. hope that helps, take care brother


----------



## 190 (Mar 11, 2011)

All,

Thanks for the great input. For me it has been more convinetinet to track cal/pro/carb/fat using pen and paper, since the only big variation in my diet is on the weekend. beyond that i have found that i manage the lethagery/sleepiness by consuming a large portion (1500'ish cal) right before bed, and i sleep REALLY well when more full than normal, almost uncomfortably full. I would still love to hear other opinions/though processes used by people struggling to meet cal/day.


----------



## MusBuildFast (Mar 12, 2011)

*Caffeine for Energy but suppresses appetite*



shortstop said:


> 190, your 31. so am i. i kicked my tiredness in the nuts with caffeine. and btw there is nothing fictitous about the term "hardgainer"



I agree, but then caffeine is also an appetite suppressant, which may be counter productive.


----------



## ATyler (Mar 12, 2011)

Not sure if its just a mental thing or what but when I take a multi-vitamin in the AM it seems like I have more of an appiete all day


----------

