# The Upper Chest and Triceps!



## Francis584 (May 19, 2005)

Hey guys! 

Officially my first post and I want to start off by saying that these forums are really a great resource for all bodybuilders or people looking to get fit! Who best to learn from then others doing the same thing!? That being said, I want to explain my situation...

Basically, I've been working out now for 3 years. I'm only 19 years old so I'm not exactly anything "special" yet. I am also 5'8 at 160 lbs. The weight is not really bothering me, although I am looking to increase to about 175 lbs, at which point I am planning on cutting because for my height I think that's fine. I'm not looking to be a "beast" or anything, just medium built. 

Well this is my current situation. I have worked my lower chest, or mid chest area, for far too long and developed it enough in my opinion. Yet my upper chest is very much lagging behind. Lately, maybe in the last few months, I have actually been doing upper chest exercises and so far little results. For example, I have a collar bone which is clearly visible (I hate that) and the area at the top and middle of the chest almost has no muscle. I want to pump this area up, and need advice. My chest routine has generally involved dumbbells, basically I haven't done bench press (with bar) in a long time. Can anyone explain the difference between doing it with a bar and with dumbbells? I was under the impression the dumbbells shape better? Anyway, basically I do 3 sets of 6-8 depending starting at incline, then straight and finishing with decline. Should I cut my decline and straight to concentrate exclusively on the upper?

Also my triceps. I have decent triceps but I wanted to know how to get that horseshoe shape! My triceps routine is pretty sad really. I do 3 sets of 8 on the rope (where you pull down), and another same thing on a rope to pull up over my head (in a sitting position). Sorry about my lack of terminology but up until today I really never had a need to use it! So can anyone give me any improvements on the triceps as well?

Thanks guys!


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## gr81 (May 19, 2005)

oh my, here we go again. first off whats up. Its very important to learn that a muscle grows only one way. you haven't been developing your mid chest, whatever that is, b/c thats impossible to isolate the mid chest, there is no mid chect. Everyone has different genetics. Some people develop in different ways. Some guys naturally have full chest right off the bat, others have to work for years and years before they felllike they have symmetry. it has nothing to do with a specific movement they used to isolate. To get an "upper chest" the only option is to fully develop your pectoral muscle. Same with the tricep. Its one muscle with three heads, you have to fully develop the tricep. Skeletal muscle only grow one way, you can't shape a muscle in teh sense you are implying. The difference between a barball press and a dumbell press is the dumbell press more closely mimics the actual function of the chest, which is a fly motion. with the barbell once you get to a certain spot in the movement you are really recruting more should and tricep than chest. Just remember to switch up the movements often to keep ahead of adaption and lft heavy, you will be fine.


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## gr81 (May 19, 2005)

this topic has been gone over and over till blood came out of our ears, so please read this post.


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## gr81 (May 19, 2005)

you need to be training your legs, no question. Not b/c it will increase your upper body, but b/c it will increase your lower body. I personally feel that the squat is the single most important movement one could do. soccer is not weight training after all.


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## Seanp156 (May 19, 2005)

It can hinder your upper body growth because the body tends to grow more easily as a whole, rather than specific parts. I'm sure this isn't anywhere close to a full explaination, but I don't really know what else to add.


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## GFR (May 19, 2005)

Good question Francis, First of all gr81 is right and wrong. Some muscles can be developed differantly some can't. The upper pectorals can be developed more by incline press or flys than flat or decline. If you look at an anatomy book you will see that the pectorals has 3 distinct splits in it. It is one muscle but like the deltoid it can be developed by different angles.
When you work on chest do upper chest first. Here is an example of what you could do.
1. warm up
2. incline press 3 sets of 6-10 reps
3. incline fly ( D.B. or cable) 2 sets of 8-12
4. flat press or D.B. 3 sets of 6-10
Most people train each muscle 1x a week but you could do a high rep low set workout 3 days later ( i.e. Monday heavy chest 8sets 6-10 reps, then Friday 2 sets 20 + reps).


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## Sean1234567 (May 19, 2005)

"Good question Francis, First of all gr81 is right and wrong. Some muscles can be developed differantly some can't. The upper pectorals can be developed more by incline press or flys than flat or decline. If you look at an anatomy book you will see that the pectorals has 3 distinct splits in it. It is one muscle but like the deltoid it can be developed by different angles.
When you work on chest do upper chest first. Here is an example of what you could do.
1. warm up
2. incline press 3 sets of 6-10 reps
3. incline fly ( D.B. or cable) 2 sets of 8-12
4. flat press or D.B. 3 sets of 6-10
Most people train each muscle 1x a week but you could do a high rep low set workout 3 days later ( i.e. Monday heavy chest 8sets 6-10 reps, then Friday 2 sets 20 + reps)."

So I could work out my chest two times a week? I have read that it can be pretty damaging to overwork it even set me back in development?


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## Squaggleboggin (May 19, 2005)

Seanp156 said:
			
		

> It can hinder your upper body growth because the body tends to grow more easily as a whole, rather than specific parts. I'm sure this isn't anywhere close to a full explaination, but I don't really know what else to add.


 I disagree. Squats and deadlifts release more growth hormones than any other movements. The increased growth hormones will also help to further develop the upper body (and of course the lower body). If you want to increase your bench, squat. It works.

 I do agree that the squat is the most important movement one can do, if one does so correctly.


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## Francis584 (May 19, 2005)

I see. Nice info. Still kind of confused about not being able to target my upper chest, mostly dissapointed! But I guess I'll work hard at it and someday perhaps it'll even out more...


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## GFR (May 19, 2005)

Sean1234567 said:
			
		

> "Good question Francis, First of all gr81 is right and wrong. Some muscles can be developed differantly some can't. The upper pectorals can be developed more by incline press or flys than flat or decline. If you look at an anatomy book you will see that the pectorals has 3 distinct splits in it. It is one muscle but like the deltoid it can be developed by different angles.
> When you work on chest do upper chest first. Here is an example of what you could do.
> 1. warm up
> 2. incline press 3 sets of 6-10 reps
> ...



Only 1x a week heavy i.e. 6-12 reps,.. 6-9 sets.... but like I said you could do 1 set of upper chest 20-30 reps
and one set of flat / lower chest 20-30 reps (i.e. 1 set of push ups) on a second day.
I would only train  each muscle 1x a week, then in a few weeks you can play around with the idea of a..second day  2 set "very" high rep second workout.


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## GFR (May 19, 2005)

Francis584 said:
			
		

> I see. Nice info. Still kind of confused about not being able to target my upper chest, mostly dissapointed! But I guess I'll work hard at it and someday perhaps it'll even out more...


It's easy...DO INCLINE Benchpress and / or INCLINE D.B. flys...


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## cheftony (May 19, 2005)

hey i have one peck bigger htan the other. how can i fix that?


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## MillerMan (May 19, 2005)

cheftony said:
			
		

> hey i have one peck bigger htan the other. how can i fix that?



Chances are they will never be even, the only thing you can do is train with DBs but your right (im assuming) will always be ahead of the left...everyone has this to a certain degree, for example my left bicep is about 1/2" smaller than my right and even though it has gotten bigger over time my right has also so unless you want to just train one side of your chest which i do NOT recommend there is nothing you really can do.


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## PreMier (May 19, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Good question Francis, First of all gr81 is right and wrong. Some muscles can be developed differantly some can't. The upper pectorals can be developed more by incline press or flys than flat or decline. If you look at an anatomy book you will see that the pectorals has 3 distinct splits in it. It is one muscle but like the deltoid it can be developed by different angles.
> When you work on chest do upper chest first. Here is an example of what you could do.
> 1. warm up
> 2. incline press 3 sets of 6-10 reps
> ...



hahahaha.. feed me more I mean MORE bullshit!  You obviously know nothing about human physiology, or you wouldnt have made this post.  Enlighten yourself, and READ please.


			
				gr81 said:
			
		

> this topic has been gone over and over till blood came out of our ears, so please read this post.


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## GFR (May 19, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> hahahaha.. feed me more I mean MORE bullshit!  You obviously know nothing about human physiology, or you wouldn't have made this post.  Enlighten yourself, and READ please.


You talking to me dummy.....
 Get a brain PeeMier...when you study Human Anatomy and Physiology in college let me know....Another slave drunk on ignorance!


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## PreMier (May 19, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> You talking to me dummy.....


Yea, I'm the dummy.. yet your the one who can shape muscles(or thinks he can).  Like I said, enlighten yourself.  Its not possible to contract a single area of a muscle(like pec major), so there is no way of 'shaping' the muscle.  The way your muscles look are genetic, you can only work to make them larger.

I highly suggest reading the article.  People dont want to study, and believe something, and then be proven wrong.  However thats what seperates the smart from the ignorant.. when someone is willing to learn and change their views.  Dont be ignorant.


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## PreMier (May 19, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> You talking to me dummy.....
> Get a brain PeeMier...when you study Human Anatomy and Physiology in college let me know....Another slave drunk on ignorance!



Oh, nice edit.  I like how you revert to petty insults you fucking Neanderthal.  And you call me ignorant


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## GFR (May 19, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> Oh, nice edit.  I like how you revert to petty insults you fucking Neanderthal.  And you call me ignorant


Try some Nizoral shampoo dummy...OMG what a hair line...You really know what you are doing.
Read a article??? sorry slave I studied Anatomy and Physiology in college so I'm one up on you....Keep reading Flex magazine...OMFG what a slave.


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## PreMier (May 19, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Try some Nizoral shampoo dummy...OMG what a hair line...You really know what you are doing.
> Read a article??? sorry slave I studied Anatomy and Physiology in college so I'm one up on you....Keep reading Flex magazine...OMFG what a slave.



You're a class act.. reverting to personal insults now?  You obviously dont know your ass from a hole in the ground, and should have paid more attention in class.

I think that if we all refer to the "Sliding Filament Theory of Muscle Contraction" science would be suggesting that while you cannot isolate a portion of any one muscle, you most certainly CAN emphasize a portion of one muscle. This doesn't mean incline is working your "upper chest" it simply means that incline is emphasizing the top portion of the chest. This would also go to explain and justify why certain portions of the chest will become sore when pressing from different angles.

And science knows best.  You keep defying science. I'm sorry but you may as well say gravity is fake. There are far too many PhD's in physiology and kinesiology who say your ideas are BS.

I dont read magazines


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## GFR (May 19, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> You're a class act.. reverting to personal insults now?  You obviously dont know your ass from a hole in the ground, and should have paid more attention in class.
> 
> I think that if we all refer to the "Sliding Filament Theory of Muscle Contraction" science would be suggesting that while you cannot isolate a portion of any one muscle, you most certainly CAN emphasize a portion of one muscle. This doesn't mean incline is working your "upper chest" it simply means that incline is emphasizing the top portion of the chest. This would also go to explain and justify why certain portions of the chest will become sore when pressing from different angles.
> 
> ...


Like I said when you go to college try and pass Anatomy and Physiology ( it's two classes) then if you do pass you can have an intelligent conversation with me....It is don't not dont, just to let you know.


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## PreMier (May 19, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Like I said when you go to college try and pass Anatomy and Physiology ( it's two classes) then if you do pass you can have an intelligent conversation with me....It is don't not dont, just to let you know.



Been there done that.  Your refusing to post anything relevant, and keep trying to insult me(now with your "I have proper English", therefore I am smarter than you bullshit).  Post some research backing your claims.  Oh, but I bet you cant, because there is none.  Furthermore, I refuse to squabble with someone who has the phrase "IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH" in their signature.  That there truly tells me all I need to know.


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## GFR (May 19, 2005)

You have to love it when a fat bald dude with no upper chest gives advise. Look PeeMier you jumped on this thread talking sh1t, not me, so you get the what you deserve. Look we all can learn; and my advise to you is, take Nizoral shampoo when you are on the juice, and try some incline work for you're small upper chest. A diet would be a good idea for you too.......Best wishes when you graduate from high school.


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## GFR (May 19, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> Been there done that.  Your refusing to post anything relevant, and keep trying to insult me(now with your "I have proper English", therefore I am smarter than you bullshit).  Post some research backing your claims.  Oh, but I bet you cant, because there is none.  Furthermore, I refuse to squabble with someone who has the phrase "IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH" in their signature.  That there truly tells me all I need to know.[/QUTE]
> If you ever read a book you would know that my signature is a quote from 1984. You really need to read some books.


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## PreMier (May 19, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> You have to love it when a fat bald dude with no upper chest gives advise. Look PeeMier you jumped on this thread talking sh1t, not me, so you get the what you deserve. Look we all can learn; and my advise to you is, take Nizoral shampoo when you are on the juice, and try some incline work for you're small upper chest. A diet would be a good idea for you too.......Best wishes when you graduate from high school.



Im not fat, bald(well, I shave my head), nor do I use "juice".  Anyone that posts here and knows me will tell you that much.  Plus your one to talk, without pictures of yourself up.

Look, Im soo bald


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## gr81 (May 19, 2005)

Foreman, you closeminded ignorant know it all, you have no clue what you are talking about. Since you have a self proclaimed background in anatomy, plese engage us in the sceintific process in which a person can isolate the upper chest or tricept. The tricep is ONE muscle with three heads,you can run your mouth all you want calling premier names, but the fact of the matter is that he has proven his knowledge if the sport, and I have as well, and the statements you make prove otherwise. I suggest you know your role and shut your mouth


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## GFR (May 19, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> Im not fat, bald(well, I shave my head), nor do I use "juice".  Anyone that posts here and knows me will tell you that much.  Plus your one to talk, without pictures of yourself up.


Please you shave you're head because you didn't use Nizoral shampoo. You are fat and you have no upper chest. If I become a premier member I will post pictures. I love guys who live in a small town and think an 18 inch arm and a 400lb Bench press is the height of bodybuilding.


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## GFR (May 19, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> Im not fat, bald(well, I shave my head), nor do I use "juice".  Anyone that posts here and knows me will tell you that much.  Plus your one to talk, without pictures of yourself up.
> 
> Look, Im soo bald


Yes...very


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## PreMier (May 19, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Please you shave you're head because you didn't use Nizoral shampoo. You are fat and you have no upper chest. If I become a premier member I will post pictures. I love guys who live in a small town and think an 18 inch arm and a 400lb Bench press is the height of bodybuilding.



Any member can post pics, not just elites.  So post up or shut up you New Jerksian.  Also I would hardly call a city if 1million people + a small town.


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## GFR (May 20, 2005)

gr81 said:
			
		

> Foreman, you closeminded ignorant know it all, you have no clue what you are talking about. Since you have a self proclaimed background in anatomy, plese engage us in the sceintific process in which a person can isolate the upper chest or tricept. The tricep is ONE muscle with three heads,you can run your mouth all you want calling premier names, but the fact of the matter is that he has proven his knowledge if the sport, and I have as well, and the statements you make prove otherwise. I suggest you know your role and shut your mouth


Ok dummy I will clue you in. The pectoralis are two muscle groups; 1. pectoralis minor and pectoralis major.
And I have read you're posts and you seem to know very little .
As far as training a muscle group you are limited to you're genetics. However you can make some slight changes in muscle development if you know how to train.When you know what you are talking about I will give you the respect you deserve.


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## GFR (May 20, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> Any member can post pics, not just elites.  So post up or shut up you New Jerksian.  Also I would hardly call a city if 1million people + a small town.


And the city is???? I will post some pics..if that means anything.


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## gr81 (May 20, 2005)

yo Pre my man, this cat is nto even worth the time, running his mouth. he shows his level of intelligence with posts like this:



> If you look at an anatomy book you will see that the pectorals has 3 distinct splits in it. It is one muscle but like the deltoid it can be developed by different angles.




Well the pec has a split in it so it must be able to be isolated? thats just ridiculous. Just b/c a muscle can be hit at a different angle does not imply isolation. The incline differs in the fact that it recruits more of the shoulders than anything. The bench is not even the most optimal movement for pec development if you really want to get down to it, its more of a tri movement. The delts are one muscle that has three heads, you can't isolate the anterior delt without recruiting the other heads, its not possible. You can do movements that more strongly recruit muscle fibers, but not isolation, pure and simple mr. anatomy. There is more to this science than simply anatomical observation, sounds like you need to learn that. read up son

btw you are getting off to a bad start on this forum, so why don't you do yourself a favor and beat it before you piss more people off. We don't need a piece of trailer park trash like you running his mouth.


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## WilliamB (May 20, 2005)

Well if I had to put my money on who is more creditable I would definetly go with Premier over you Foreman.   Foreman sounds like one of those people who have trouble putting sentances together but finds a way to throw in some technical terminology to make them selves sound well informed.


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## gr81 (May 20, 2005)

well it didn't take him long to figure your ass out did it. Just b/c you say pec major and pec minor, like you are saying something we don't know, you think you are some sort of genius, like you impress somebody. Why not have some factualy based information to back up your claims instead of talking about shampoo?


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## GFR (May 20, 2005)

Sorry fellas I just can't take high school kids seriously. When any of you kids can bench over 400 let me know.


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## GFR (May 20, 2005)

gr81 said:
			
		

> well it didn't take him long to figure your ass out did it. Just b/c you say pec major and pec minor, like you are saying something we don't know, you think you are some sort of genius, like you impress somebody. Why not have some factualy based information to back up your claims instead of talking about shampoo?


Ok dummy explain the difference of the pectoralis minor and the pectoralis major. I'll give you an hour or two to look it up.


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## GFR (May 20, 2005)

The clock is ticking......Look it up


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## GFR (May 20, 2005)

Francis584 said:
			
		

> I see. Nice info. Still kind of confused about not being able to target my upper chest, mostly dissapointed! But I guess I'll work hard at it and someday perhaps it'll even out more...



Well Francis if in doubt go to the gym you're next workout and do 5 sets of incline press and 2 sets of incline fly...and see in a day or two where you are sore...
Then you will know if gr81, PreMier and WilliamB know anything  
I can tell you now they don't, but go and do what I said and you will be sore as hell in the upper chest and front delts (even though there is no such thing as front delts   )
It's over 1 hour and the high school kids have no answer


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## Duncans Donuts (May 20, 2005)

I've taken both anatomy and physiology class.  I'm a physiology major.  Foreman, your attitude sucks and you are completely ignorant.

If you can isolate a portion of the pecs (minor or major) independently flex one without flexing the other.  Have fun with that one, people will say you can, but I'm telling you it's impossible.  This is why changing the angle on a calf raise doesn't "isolate".  Isolate means to "seperate from all others" - if isolation where possible, then you could flex one head while not the other.  This is garbage, and so is your attitude.  Premiere is intelligent and knows what he's talking about, don't go head to head with people on this board..


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## GFR (May 20, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> I've taken both anatomy and physiology class.  I'm a physiology major.  Foreman, your attitude sucks and you are completely ignorant.
> 
> If you can isolate a portion of the pecs (minor or major) independently flex one without flexing the other.  Have fun with that one, people will say you can, but I'm telling you it's impossible.  This is why changing the angle on a calf raise doesn't "isolate".  Isolate means to "seperate from all others" - if isolation where possible, then you could flex one head while not the other.  This is garbage, and so is your attitude.  Premiere is intelligent and knows what he's talking about, don't go head to head with people on this board..



Well I have read you're posts, and have said nothing but since you feel the need to pull my string I will respond. I have very serious doubts you have studied  Human Anatomy or Human Physiology in college with a passing grade. You have very limited knowledge of weight training; very typical of a small town kid. As for PerMiere he is just another loser with no experience, screaming to the world as you do that he knows it all. Come to LA and train with the Pro's for 4 years like I have, and compete in Pro qualifier's like I have  Then we can talk about what bodybuilding is all about.
Please stop quoting Arthur Jones,  Donut..


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## HardTrainer (May 20, 2005)

Foreman your a piece of shit.


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## GFR (May 20, 2005)

Duncans Donuts is a typical Mike Mentzer lover. Please when you grow up look back on all the bull sh1t you preached. When I was a child like DD I thought I knew it all, but all that changed when I grew up. Come on you only do two sets of squats...OMG ( you make fun of the strongest power lifters in the world, squat routines). Training for four or five years doesn't make you the king of weight training knowledge. Just another kid who thinks a few steroid cycles and a few years of training makes him the expert; very sad. When you get you're own opinion I will listen to it, even if I disagree ( I love Mike too but he was full of it when it came to training).


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## HardTrainer (May 20, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Please don't even get me started on you dummy.



Your a fagot and a piece of shit


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## HardTrainer (May 20, 2005)




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## GFR (May 20, 2005)

HardTrainer said:
			
		

> Your a fagot and a piece of shit


I forgive you because you are a simple child, and we can't hurt the children.


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## P-funk (May 20, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Ok dummy explain the difference of the pectoralis minor and the pectoralis major. I'll give you an hour or two to look it up.




I saw the title of this thread and didn't want to open it because these debates are so played out.  I was bored and decided to give it a read though.  The ability to "isolate" either the clavicular or sternal portions of pectroallis major remains to be unseen (in science at least), regardless of what one feels when they bench press from different angles.  In my opinion (take it for what it is worth), you are doing nothing more than altering the plane of motion you are working in and changing proprioception.

that being said.  yes, there is a slight "interval" which does seperate the clavicular and sternal heads.  However, even though they have different origin points they both share the same insertion point, "They all end in a flat tendon, about 5 cm. broad, which is inserted into the crest of the greater tubercle of the humerus" (gray's anatomy). 

Pec minor has nothing to do with the argument at all.  It, along with the lower traps, are just scapula stabalizers, as they work together to depress the scapula.


....go on....call me names.....


-p


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## Var (May 20, 2005)

Propz, Funk!!!


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## BigDyl (May 20, 2005)

Oh yeah?  We'll your all big stupid heads!


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## Doublebase (May 20, 2005)

Well I just wasted 20 minutes of work reading this thread.  You bench 400 Foreman?  Lets see some pics?  Your are insulting some creditable members here.  You are coming off very rude and ignorant.  You sound educated so keep it that way.  It makes you sound stupid when you insult everyone.


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## GFR (May 20, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> I saw the title of this thread and didn't want to open it because these debates are so played out.  I was bored and decided to give it a read though.  The ability to "isolate" either the clavicular or sternal portions of pectroallis major remains to be unseen (in science at least), regardless of what one feels when they bench press from different angles.  In my opinion (take it for what it is worth), you are doing nothing more than altering the plane of motion you are working in and changing proprioception.
> 
> that being said.  yes, there is a slight "interval" which does seperate the clavicular and sternal heads.  However, even though they have different origin points they both share the same insertion point, "They all end in a flat tendon, about 5 cm. broad, which is inserted into the crest of the greater tubercle of the humerus" (gray's anatomy).
> 
> ...



Not at all you answered the question Duncans donuts could not...It was a trick question for those who reiterate what they don't understand. You have some knowledge of anatomy, yet D.D. is still looking it up. The quasi  Arthur Jones pseudo science D.D rips off is a joke ( forgive me for using bullshit words like D.D, but it's too funny not to in this case)  .
I have lifted weights for 25 years and all I know comes from experience I and the many of people I have had the privilege to knowing  over the last 25 years have learned.
I just gave this Gentleman the best advise I had to give and the dummy's who are quick to judge and slow to understand had to chime in.
It is amazing to me that some people think all they need to do is two or three sets of squats to get big legs. Or that flat bench press is all you need to do to build a proportioned chest.
Oh well live and learn, at least I hope they do.


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## GFR (May 20, 2005)

Doublebase said:
			
		

> Well I just wasted 20 minutes of work reading this thread.  You bench 400 Foreman?  Lets see some pics?  Your are insulting some creditable members here.  You are coming off very rude and ignorant.  You sound educated so keep it that way.  It makes you sound stupid when you insult everyone.


No I benched 405 raw, naturally at 206 when I was 19, now I bench press 405 raw for 11 reps at my best ( 250-260)
I just gave some advise, then the baboons jumped on me so I am sorry for defending myself.


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## Doublebase (May 20, 2005)

pics???


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## GFR (May 20, 2005)

Doublebase said:
			
		

> pics???


Tell me how to cover my face in a picture bro...Don't wan't to post my face on a site that talks about steroids...Thank you for the help


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## ZECH (May 20, 2005)

I see this thread is going nowhere! Forman, give it a rest.


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## rangers97 (May 20, 2005)

it is my experience that when I do flat db press, it gives me the results that the incline "supposedly" does, in that it appears that my chest becomes more full and round at the top, but like I said this is done with a flat bench, only with the dbs. Of course, this is "my experience" and I am not quoting scientific fact, I can only state what my opinion is.

I used to always do inclines without fail, but now I am realizing they may not be necessary. In terms of thinking about the functions of muscles like the chest and the shoulders, wouldn't the incline press be somewhat unnatural? In terms of functionality, you can mimic the flat press in real life, ie, if you have to push something, or what a lineman in football would do, and you can mimic the overhead press by anytime you need to pick something up over your head. When would you ever mimic an incline bench movement?  If I ever do incline movements again, the only ones I would do are with dbs as when you get the range of motion with the dbs, I can see it being more positive in what it is trying to accomplish (again, my opinion, not fact)


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## GFR (May 20, 2005)

dg806 said:
			
		

> I see this thread is going nowhere! Forman, give it a rest.


Read the entire post before you place blame.


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## Duncans Donuts (May 20, 2005)

Wow, I really got slandered in here.  I guess my response not coming fast enough was because I was ignorant, not because I was asleep 

There are about a dozen threads like this in which such arguments have been broken to pieces.  I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks because they are baseless and, not to blow up a word, ignorant.


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## GFR (May 20, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> I've taken both anatomy and physiology class.  I'm a physiology major.  Foreman, your attitude sucks and you are completely ignorant.
> 
> If you can isolate a portion of the pecs (minor or major) independently flex one without flexing the other.  Have fun with that one, people will say you can, but I'm telling you it's impossible.  This is why changing the angle on a calf raise doesn't "isolate".  Isolate means to "seperate from all others" - if isolation where possible, then you could flex one head while not the other.  This is garbage, and so is your attitude.  Premiere is intelligent and knows what he's talking about, don't go head to head with people on this board..


Too funny you were the one to call me ignorant.
You started the personal attack as well...
Wow Donut you need to check yourself. If you can't give advise without calling another persons input " ignorant", then you really need some help.
Just look up and you will see that you began this negative dialog with me.


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## god hand (May 20, 2005)

The point is you need to hit a muscle at different angles to make it grow. You can get an upper chest from doing decline DB just like you can get a lower chest form doing incline DB. It just depends on who you are, results will differ.


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## HardTrainer (May 20, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> It is amazing to me that some people think all they need to do is two or three sets of squats to get big legs



Dorain Yates did 1 set of squats 1 set on the leg press and 1 set on the extensions to faliure all sets prior where warm ups


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## HardTrainer (May 20, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Tell me how to cover my face in a picture bro...Don't wan't to post my face on a site that talks about steroids...Thank you for the help



Are you dumb enough not to know you can take a picture that dosnt inclued your face?


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## Duncans Donuts (May 20, 2005)

Actually, you called everyone of my friends (P and Gr8) something to the effect of dummies.  You started the belligerence, not me, and then you went off on tangents completely irrelevant.

I said you were ignorant.  Given your tone this is an analysis (and not, in fact, an insult on par with anything like DUMMY).  I still think you're ignorant.  You went on to state lies about me based on your own speculation (never passed anatomy, etc.)

So spin this how you want, this topic is completely tired.  As far as getting big with two sets of squats, heh, I can assure you that my legs are very big and the fact that you assume they are not is simply again, ignorance.  Use some facts if you're going to try and attack me personally.


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## TriZZle305 (May 20, 2005)

I didnt know people still entertained the theory of isolating portions of one muscle..


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## cheftony (May 20, 2005)

tanx i did now that so im not going to worrie about it. do you have any advice on how to build my chest fast b/c right now i max out a 200 but i only weigh 145 and i would like my chest to be bigger and stronger for next years wrestling season.


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## min0 lee (May 20, 2005)

Is this the new Johnnny?


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## Fashong (May 20, 2005)

Foreman, open up paint and then open your picture and scribble out your face..


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## TheCurse (May 20, 2005)

dont make me come in here and whip my dick out to show all y'alls what time it is.


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## min0 lee (May 20, 2005)

TheCurse said:
			
		

> dont make me come in here and whip my dick out to show all y'alls what time it is.


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## DimebagDarrell (May 20, 2005)

*i bet this foreman guy knows this one guy whos like huge.  isnt he cool?  he only used steroids for like 2 years, but that was 10 years ago.  hes a natural bodybuilder.  but hes so strong!  wanna see his pic?!?!?!?!*


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## WilliamB (May 20, 2005)

This is a forum not a chat room Foreman, no one sits around waiting for you to say something so they can quickly respond.  Duncan is by far one of the most educated people on this forum so before you go around telling people they are ignorant, do your research on them.  As for you telling everyone that they are from small townsm, that is another complete over generalization.  Also as for you traing with the pros for 4 years in LA im going to have to turn the bullshit light on for this one.  In previous statements you stated that you had only recently started working your legs.  Anyone half way serious about liftings weights would never neglect working their legs for years.  I suppose that you being the "boxer" you are, you dont need to leg training ehh.


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## DimebagDarrell (May 20, 2005)

pwn3d


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## gr81 (May 20, 2005)

> Actually, you called everyone of my friends (P and Gr8) something to the effect of dummies. You started the belligerence, not me, and then you went off on tangents completely irrelevant.



hey what up DD, nice to see ya round baby.. doesn't matter how many people come in attemtping to use logic and facts, this clown is closeminded as fucc and this topic is done to death. It matters not anyways. The educated people know what the deal is, this fool thinking if you take an anatomy class you are on par with Zatiorsky or sum shit, please. Know your role


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## ZECH (May 20, 2005)

Closing now..............


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