# powerlifting and boxing



## Call of Ktulu (Sep 4, 2011)

How can a person do both? I know a lot of boxers have to run many miles but a lot of them have great power such as Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson would do over an hour of cardio a day and he would do heavy squats, how? How can a powerlifter have good endurance? How do you crosstrain like that?


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## gunnar31656 (Sep 20, 2011)

I trained in jujitsu for a long time. I found the bulk slowed me down. I eventually had to quit one and I was tired of getting injuries from grappling


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## Usealittle (Sep 20, 2011)

I would not do pl'ing if your a boxer.... Even with the speed work that goes on it WILL make you slow. As a boxer, slow is not what you need in the ring. 

This is gonna sound gay but something fast like p90x or some kinda crossfit stuff is what u need. Fast and strong!


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## VolcomX311 (Sep 20, 2011)

Call of Ktulu said:


> How can a person do both? I know a lot of boxers have to run many miles but a lot of them have great power such as Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson would do over an hour of cardio a day and he would do heavy squats, how? How can a powerlifter have good endurance? How do you crosstrain like that?


 

"Power lifting" as defined by the bodybuidling world isnt really power lifting, it's weight lifting because they're strength based, true power lifting are the velocity based movements like Cleans & Snatches. The definition of power is force/time, which indicates velocity. Oly lifts would do wonders for boxing, as they all develop the velocity of hip drives, which is where you derive the real power behind a punch [in conjunction with your posterior chain] Hip flexion/extension/rotation velocity also benefits other martial arts techniques, such as TD's, sprawl's, bucks, sweeps, kicks).  

BTW, I don't mean to come off as pretentious know-it-all douche, this is just how I sound/post when I'm trying to be helpful.


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## IronAddict (Sep 20, 2011)

Call of Ktulu said:


> How can a person do both? I know a lot of boxers have to run many miles but a lot of them have great power such as Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson would do over an hour of cardio a day and he would do heavy squats, how? How can a powerlifter have good endurance? How do you crosstrain like that?




That would depend on your size & weight. It used to be a taboo to lift weights and be a boxer, now it is very common, especially to build power. You wouldn't see Manny squat 315. Every other day you can add weights. But some boxers add light weights everyday, after they've done their road work, and ring work. That way when you train the next day & you work that stiffness out. Remember, your not trying to set records as a bodybuilder, your trying to build strength, yet keep the hand speed.


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## Usealittle (Sep 20, 2011)

Light weights are 1thing...... Pl'in is another.

Also powerlifting is 1 word guys......


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## fufu (Sep 21, 2011)

Mike Tyson was a genetic exception.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Sep 21, 2011)

*Strength The Foundation*



Usealittle said:


> I would not do pl'ing if your a boxer.... Even with the speed work that goes on it WILL make you slow. As a boxer, slow is not what you need in the ring.



*Strength IS The Foudation*

Initially, increasing your strength will increase your power and speed.  

*Fast Twich Muscle Fiber*

As we know, there are two type of Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber, IIA and IIB/IIX.  

*IIB/IIX *

These are primarily employed in explosive and speed movements, such as Olympic movements and sprints. 

*IIA*

These are primarly used in "Limit Strength" movements, such as powerlifting.

*Conversion*

What unique about fast twitch fiber is that IIB/IIX can be converted to IIA and vise versa.

When you train too long with heavy loads, you become stronger but slower.  

However, some "Limit Strength" training is necessary to generate more power and speed.  



Usealittle said:


> This is gonna sound gay but something fast like p90x or some kinda crossfit stuff is what u need. Fast and strong!



*Cross Fit/P90X*

They are virtually the same.  

They are general conditioning program that have a limited value for any sport.  

*Neither Fast Nor Strong*

Cross Fit/P90X won't do much to improve your speed nor strength...unless you're a novice.  

*Poster Childern For Strength/Power/Speed*

Olympic Lifters (as VolcomX311 noted) are the real power athletes.

Olympic Lifters are some of, if not, are the overall strongest, most powerful, fastest athletes on the planet.

*Conjugate Training*

The reason is that they combine strength, power and speed training into their program.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## Call of Ktulu (Sep 21, 2011)

Alright so what would a boxer do to increase his strength but slow himself down with weightlifting?


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## gunnar31656 (Sep 21, 2011)

id say odd object training. tie a rope to a boulder then drag it up a hill. pick up a wheelbarrow with a friend in it and run it up an incline. toss a log end over end as many times as you can. pushups at all angles. squats first without weight (3 sets of 100), then do it with your training partner on your back. these types of movements really get your heart rate up and works as interval training as well as muscle building.


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## Gissurjon (Sep 21, 2011)

The amount of cardio doesn't really matter as long as you take in enough calories. You can do endless amounts of cardio and still gain strength as long as you eat enough. 

Mike Tyson was a genetic wonder,a heavyweight that was faster than almost every other boxer in any weight class. That will most likely never happen again.


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## Andresh (Sep 21, 2011)

For bulking what is the highest amount of excersises per large muscle groups such as back pecs or legs?


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## Gissurjon (Sep 22, 2011)

Andresh said:


> For bulking what is the highest amount of excersises per large muscle groups such as back pecs or legs?



What is the maximum amount of mileage a car can drive?

It depends man. What kind of recovery rate does the person have. What is the he/she eating. How much rest/sleep does one get. Does one use steroids. Is the person a beginner or not. What kind of job does one work.....


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## IronAddict (Sep 22, 2011)

Call of Ktulu said:


> Alright so what would a boxer do to increase his strength but slow himself down with weightlifting?



Light weight, high reps, do this in a circuit of 3 ex. to start with, and you'll notice a difference . Muscle endurance is what you need, just like your wind you need to build that up. But you cannot do that forever your joints will take a beating. Just like a bodybuilder learns & knows his body, performing this will teach you about yours. And from there you can calibrate the amount of weight used.

Yes, fast twich exercises to help build speed, in boxing speed equates to power. You can also switch it up with compound movements. Do you recall Evander Holyfield? Well, he was very light but in his heart he knew was a heavyweight. So he hired Lee Haney to show him how to add some weight and size. Well, that's plenty of food and heavier weight & lighter reps.


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## Rolltide44 (Sep 25, 2011)

it's all about tendon and ligament strength. Boxers are not know for delivering power from
powerlifting.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Sep 25, 2011)

*Enless Cardio Ends Strength and Mass.*



Gissurjon said:


> The amount of cardio doesn't really matter as long as you take in enough calories. You can do endless amounts of cardio and still gain strength as long as you eat enough.


 
*Endless Cardio Ends Strength *

Endless cardio has been shown to decrease strength and muscle mass.  

Endless cardio cuts into your recovery time. 

Thus, you end up getting weaker and smaller.  

Kenny Croxdalke


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## Kenny Croxdale (Sep 25, 2011)

*Hatfield Trained Holyfield*



IronAddict said:


> Light weight, high reps, do this in a circuit of 3 ex. to start with, and you'll notice a difference . Muscle endurance is what you need, just like your wind you need to build that up. But you cannot do that forever your joints will take a beating. Just like a bodybuilder learns & knows his body, performing this will teach you about yours. And from there you can calibrate the amount of weight used.
> 
> Yes, fast twich exercises to help build speed, in boxing speed equates to power.




*Power = Strength X Speed*

Speed is a component of power.  It does not necessairly equate to power.  



IronAddict said:


> Do you recall Evander Holyfield? Well, he was very light but in his heart he knew was a heavyweight. So he hired Lee Haney to show him how to add some weight and size. Well, that's plenty of food and heavier weight & lighter reps.



*Fred Hatfield Trained Holyfield*

Fred Hatfield trained Holyfield.  

I doubt Haney did much of anything or was qualified to help Holyfield in any way.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## wisco (Sep 25, 2011)

With more drugs and more food you can do a lot of cardio and a lot of strength work. Look at every linebacker in the NFL. I'm eating a lot of clean calories right now, doing plenty of running and my lifts are all going up.


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## Call of Ktulu (Sep 25, 2011)

wisco said:


> With more drugs and more food you can do a lot of cardio and a lot of strength work. Look at every linebacker in the NFL. I'm eating a lot of clean calories right now, doing plenty of running and my lifts are all going up.


 How much cardio?


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## Kenny Croxdale (Sep 26, 2011)

*Too much cardio kills strength.*



wisco said:


> With more drugs and more food you can do a lot of cardio and a lot of strength work. Look at every linebacker in the NFL. I'm eating a lot of clean calories right now, doing plenty of running and my lifts are all going up.



*Cardio Kills Strength*

Too much cardio decreases strength levels.  
*
Linebackers*

Cardio training for any football player revolves around interval training, such as sprints.  

*"My lifts are going up."*

For a novice such as yourself, anything and everthing works.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## CowPimp (Sep 26, 2011)

Usealittle said:


> I would not do pl'ing if your a boxer.... Even with the speed work that goes on it WILL make you slow. As a boxer, slow is not what you need in the ring.
> 
> This is gonna sound gay but something fast like p90x or some kinda crossfit stuff is what u need. Fast and strong!



Powerlifting type training should never make you slower.  If anything, it should improve rate of force development.  It might be prudent, however, to incorporate more work to improve rate of force development when using very light loads.  The dynamic effort work used in something like the Westside template is not specific to the force-velocity relationship one displays in a boxing match.

Improving maximal strength always improves your potential for improved rate of force development at submaximal loads.  It is a myth that resistance training makes you slower.


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## Rodja (Sep 26, 2011)

Everyone always makes the mistake of only thinking about the ME of the template and ignoring the DE part.  The DE would be the main part that an athlete would use for power while utilizing bands and chains.


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## IronAddict (Sep 26, 2011)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> *Power = Strength X Speed*
> 
> Speed is a component of power.  It does not necessairly equate to power.
> 
> ...



Evander Holyfield's Weight routine --- supervised by Lee Haney 

Yeah,  the 8 time Mr. O isn't qualified to train anyone in the art of BBing. He clearly is a know nothing.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Sep 26, 2011)

*Sarcoplasmic Vs Myofibrillar Hypertrophy*



IronAddict said:


> Evander Holyfield's Weight routine --- supervised by Lee Haney
> 
> Yeah,  the 8 time Mr. O isn't qualified to train anyone in the art of BBing. He clearly is a know nothing.



*Bodybuilding--The Beauty Contest*

Bodybuilding is nothing more than a Beauty Contest.  The only thing missing is the interview where they tell everyone they want world peace.  

*Bodybuilding Doesn't Increase Fuctional Mass*

Bodybuilding is more about "Show" than "Go".   Bodybuilders are more concerned the size/look rather than strength/power/speed.  

*Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy*

Bodybuilding involves pumping the muscle up to make it bigger, not stronger. That is accomplished with low-load volume, lighter weights, short rest periods, etc. 

Think of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy as blowing a balloon up. You can blow up a lot of balloons quickly. 

*Myofibrillar Hypertrophy*

Strength Training involves myofibrillar hypertrophy. Muscle mass increases with strength training primarily through myofibrillar hypertrohph.

Think of myofibrillar hypertrophy as building something with bricks. Bricks are very strong but take a while to build something.

Kenny Croxdale


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## IronAddict (Sep 26, 2011)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> *Bodybuilding--The Beauty Contest*
> 
> Bodybuilding is nothing more than a Beauty Contest.  The only thing missing is the interview where they tell everyone they want world peace.
> 
> ...



Well, as simplistic as your copy...I won't..I'll just say this..Evander had quite a hard earned, much achieved, and much aspired physique..

That worked into the only 4 time heavyweight champ!?  
Bye the way?!


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## crazyotter (Sep 28, 2011)

I lift heavy and do boxing as my cardio. I have no intentions of getting in a ring and I'm positive I'm quick/powerful enough to beat most in a street/bar fight. 

Boxing is the most entertaining cardio there is. (besides sex)


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## platinumabs (Sep 28, 2011)

mike just had the sickest genes on the planet


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## Tako1984 (Sep 29, 2011)

I thought I read that you can do sets of heavy squats followed by a plyo excercise like jump squats and increase explosive "power" to help you punch harder.


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## Call of Ktulu (Sep 29, 2011)

Tako1984 said:


> I thought I read that you can do sets of heavy squats followed by a plyo excercise like jump squats and increase explosive "power" to help you punch harder.


 That's what I thought also.


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## sassy69 (Sep 29, 2011)

I have a close friend who is world level BJJ competitor and also a world level Oly lifter. She finds it hella hard to do both - you can use one to complement the other but to excel at both at a competitive level is very hard. Interestingly she noted that the diet was the hardest part - to find something that fueled her for both.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Sep 29, 2011)

Tako1984 said:


> I thought I read that you can do sets of heavy squats followed by a plyo excercise like jump squats and increase explosive "power" to help you punch harder.



*Complex Training*

Complex Training (aka Contrast Training) supersets a heavy movement with a moderate or light movement to increasing power and/or speed.  

It is an effective tool. 

*My Experience*

I've used Complex Training for over 10 years as a means of increasing strength and power.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## Call of Ktulu (Sep 29, 2011)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> *Complex Training*
> 
> Complex Training (aka Contrast Training) supersets a heavy movement with a moderate or light movement to increasing power and/or speed.
> 
> ...


 What types of workouts with weights? Bodyparts ext..?


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## KelJu (Sep 29, 2011)

I tried both at the same time back in college, and it didn't work out.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Sep 30, 2011)

*Complex Traning Programs*



Call of Ktulu said:


> What types of workouts with weights? Bodyparts ext..?



Ktula,

*Super Settting The Same Muscle Groups*

Complex Training bascially super sets the same muscle groups with a heavy load movement followed by a moderate to light load movement.  

*"Body Part" Bench Press Examples. * 

Let's say you can Bench Press 300 lbs X 1 Repetition, 1RM  

*Heavy Load Bench Press Set, 80% Plus of 1RM*

That means you want to perform your 1RM with about 80% plus of 300 lbs.    (300 X 80% = 240 lbs).  

*240 lbs X 1 Repetition Heavy Set Bench Press*

Thus, you'd perform 1 Repetition with 240 lbs or MORE.   

*Moderate Load Bench Press, 40-60% of 1 RM*

Moderate loads with about 40-60% of your 1RM are effective in developing Power.  Thus, this second set program is written to develop Power.  

*120 To 180 lbs X 2-3 Repetitions*

Thus, you'd preform your Power Set with a load of 120 to 180 lbs.  

*Rest Period Between Heavy and Moderate Load*

Your rest period between your heavy set and moderate set need to be between 1-3 minutes.  

The main thing is to rest enough after your heavy set to insure that you are explosive on your second Power Set.  

*Writing The Program*

Complex Training is an effective tool for increasing strength, power, speed and hypertrophy (bodybuilding).  

*Power Program*

Power is developed by utilizing a moderate load in the second set of approximately 40-60% of your 1 RM, 1 Repetition Max. 

*Speed Program*

Speed is developed when lighter loads are used in the second set, approximately 10-40% of you 1RM.  

These sets need to be Ballistic.  Ballistic meaning either your body or an object need to become airborne. 

*Ballistic Exercise Examples*

1) Squat Jumps.  Driving up so hard and fast your feet leave the ground. 

2) Bench Press Throws. Literally, throwing the bar into the air.  A Smith Machine works well for this. 

3) Etc...

*Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Program*

The second set is performed with loads of about 60-% of your 1RM for 8-12 Repetitions.  Thus, the load would be 180 to 240 lbs X 8-12 Repetition. (180 to 240 lbs being 60-80%).

That would mean your Heavy Bench Press Set would need to be closer to 300 lbs X 1 RM.  

Different Heavy and Moderate To Light Load Movement Combination

A different approach that I am more an advocate of is to use different exercises that work the same muscle groups in your Complex Training Sets.

Combo Example: 

1) Heavy Dips, Incline Press, or Deline Press (chose one)

Thus, you'd perform a heavy dip, incline press or decline press.  Rest and then perform you power, speed or hypertrophy set. 

2) Moderate to Light Bench Press

*Articles*

Power Development Article
Kenny Complex Training

Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Development
http://www.onewhey.ca/the16principle.pdf

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Sep 30, 2011)

*It's NOT the Program.*



KelJu said:


> I tried both at the same time back in college, and it didn't work out.



*Baking A Cake*

It like baking a cake.  You may have all the right ingredients.  However, if you put in the wrong amounts, it doesn't work.  

That means you end up with a completely different cake.  

*The Problem*

The problem is that most individuals when a program doesn't work, blame the prorgram.   

*Garbage In Garbage Out*

As with anything, if the program is not written and followed properly...it won't work.  

Complex Training

When I initially tried Complex Training with my deadlift, I made huge gains.  

I attribute my success to "accidently" getting it right...in other words, I guess right. 

*Advance Complex Training*

I then wrote up my new program, Advance Complex Training.  

With Advanced Complex Training I was able to take my best deadlift DOWN 50 lbs. 

*Right Ingredients, Wrong Amounts*

Let's go back to the Cake Analogy.  I once baked a cake and ended up putting 2 Cups of Oil in, instead of 1 Cup of Oil.  

Putting 2 Cup of Oil in screwed my cake up. 

*Same With Programs*

That's exactly what I did with Advance Complex Training.  

*"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing."* Einstein

It took me a year of playing with Advance Complex Training to figure it out.  

Once I did, I ended up putting another 25 lbs on my best ever deadlift. 

*Moral To The Story*

The take home message is that when something doesn't work, DON"T blame the program.  

The problem is often that either you wrote the program wrong, performed it incorrectly, or both.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## wisco (Oct 3, 2011)

Kenny some would say 5-6 years of training is a beginner, I don't know. I have increased my 2mile run time and my 3 power lifts while eating a lot of food and using a mild amount of gear. (500mg Test. and GHRP). 
 I do cardio 2-3 times a week for half an hour and run 1-2 miles on Saturday. With a 531 PL routine. Come at me bro.


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## Call of Ktulu (Oct 3, 2011)

wisco said:


> Kenny some would say 5-6 years of training is a beginner, I don't know. I have increased my 2mile run time and my 3 power lifts while eating a lot of food and using a mild amount of gear. (500mg Test. and GHRP).
> I do cardio 2-3 times a week for half an hour and run 1-2 miles on Saturday. With a 531 PL routine. Come at me bro.


 How fast are you running these miles? Are you doing HIIT?


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## Rodja (Oct 3, 2011)

wisco said:


> Kenny some would say 5-6 years of training is a beginner, I don't know. I have increased my 2mile run time and my 3 power lifts while eating a lot of food and using a mild amount of gear. (500mg Test. and GHRP).
> I do cardio 2-3 times a week for half an hour and run 1-2 miles on Saturday. With a 531 PL routine. Come at me bro.



Running abilities are not applicable to boxing or any combat sports.  Running is rhythmic and is about breathing, but there is not a rhythm to boxing, MMA, etc.


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## Usealittle (Oct 3, 2011)

Call of Ktulu said:


> Alright so what would a boxer do to increase his strength but slow himself down with weightlifting?



I'd still say do a cross fit workout with a little more weight and a little less reps...... Not a lot more weight but some.

Even if you don't get really strong you will have the cardio ot out last em'


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## Usealittle (Oct 3, 2011)

Heavy lifting is NOT what you need!


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## wisco (Oct 3, 2011)

Call of Ktulu said:


> How fast are you running these miles? Are you doing HIIT?


  About a 7min mile pace, a little faster for 1 mile. Sometimes I do run sprints (usually totaling a mile or more).


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## wisco (Oct 3, 2011)

Rodja said:


> Running abilities are not applicable to boxing or any combat sports.  Running is rhythmic and is about breathing, but there is not a rhythm to boxing, MMA, etc.


  But the OP was about endurance and strength. It is lazy to think you cannot be good at both. 
  No, you probably won't be a marathon runner or run a 4.4 40 while having a 2000lb total and weighing 280+. But, you can certainly build strength and speed together. Athletes do it all the time. You need fuel for your body (food and drugs and hard work)


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## zoco (Oct 4, 2011)

Call of Ktulu said:


> How can a person do both? I know a lot of boxers have to run many miles but a lot of them have great power such as Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson would do over an hour of cardio a day and he would do heavy squats, how? How can a powerlifter have good endurance? How do you crosstrain like that?



I was a boxer and did weights.Weighlifting can be a good thing IF you don't become too bulky.My trainer didn't approve tough.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Oct 4, 2011)

wisco said:


> But the OP was about endurance and strength. It is lazy to think you cannot be good at both.
> No, you probably won't be a marathon runner or run a 4.4 40 while having a 2000lb total and weighing 280+. But, you can certainly build strength and speed together. Athletes do it all the time. You need fuel for your body (food and drugs and hard work)



*"Jack Of All Trades, Master of NONE."*

You will become well rounded, so to speak.  However, you will never reach you full potential in any sports.  

*Building Strength and Speed*

Running a mile and/or running a half hour builds neither strength nor speed.  

*Running a Mile*

Running a mile makes you good at running a mile.  That's it. 

*How May Boxers Run A Mile In The Ring?*

None.  The "Law of Specificity" means you training need to represent the sprot your in.  

Boxers who run countless miles are metophorically speaking, "Going nowhere."  

*Food, Drugs, Hard Work AND The Right Program. *

Using your head for something beside blocking punches works better. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## Rodja (Oct 4, 2011)

wisco said:


> But the OP was about endurance and strength. It is lazy to think you cannot be good at both.
> No, you probably won't be a marathon runner or run a 4.4 40 while having a 2000lb total and weighing 280+. But, you can certainly build strength and speed together. Athletes do it all the time. You need fuel for your body (food and drugs and hard work)



Again, you're talking about something completely different than the cardio demands of combat sports, which is the question of the OP.  Power is the focus of combat sports and not strength.  Unlike practically every other sport out there, combat sports is about keeping your weight down to a reasonable level and competing.  

In MMA, for example, it is extremely common to see someone start out in one weight class and then drop 1-2 classes as they go along in their career.


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## CowPimp (Oct 4, 2011)

Usealittle said:


> I'd still say do a cross fit workout with a little more weight and a little less reps...... Not a lot more weight but some.
> 
> Even if you don't get really strong you will have the cardio ot out last em'



Crossfit workouts are not suitable for athletes.  They do not address the specific needs of the athletes, promote performing technical exercises while in a state of extreme fatigue, and implement very poor methods of progression.

Saying that improving strength is not important is only potentially true.  You need to asses the individual athlete.  If the athlete's strength is low enough, then improving maximal strength is beneficial in virtually every sport.  This is true even if it's a sport like boxing where velocity is the far more relevant number on the force-velocity spectrum.  However, if the athlete already has adequate maximal strength, then improving this attribute does reach a point of diminishing returns.

Let me emphasize this point again though: Improving strength is NEVER a bad thing.  It does not make you slower.  It can only make you faster.  Getting bigger may be a problem if you intend to stay within your weight class, but if that's the case, then you need to be paying attention to diet to prevent such an occurrence.  You can get stronger without getting bigger.


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## wisco (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm making the point that is possible to become faster and stronger. My run time has become faster. I have become stronger. Same time. 
 Croxdale, Clay Matthews, Ken Norton, Mike Tyson, and any UFC guy you want to pick are not "Jack's" of strength _and_ speed? They have not become bigger faster and stronger simultaneously?
 Obviously those guys are the best at what they do, but it just goes to show once again it is very possible.


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## CowPimp (Oct 5, 2011)

wisco said:


> I'm making the point that is possible to become faster and stronger. My run time has become faster. I have become stronger. Same time.
> Croxdale, Clay Matthews, Ken Norton, Mike Tyson, and any UFC guy you want to pick are not "Jack's" of strength _and_ speed? They have not become bigger faster and stronger simultaneously?
> Obviously those guys are the best at what they do, but it just goes to show once again it is very possible.



If they focused on one biomotor ability or another, it would be more highly developed in that individual.  Yes you can improve all of your biomotor abilities over baseline, but you can not optimize performance in all of them simultaneously.  There is a difference.

This is why sport specific training is so important.  All sports require a unique blend of these abilities.  Your training program should reflect the priorities that the sport dictates.


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## wisco (Oct 5, 2011)

So, it does work. Glad we figured that out.


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## Call of Ktulu (Oct 5, 2011)

CowPimp said:


> If they focused on one biomotor ability or another, it would be more highly developed in that individual. Yes you can improve all of your biomotor abilities over baseline, but you can not optimize performance in all of them simultaneously. There is a difference.
> 
> This is why sport specific training is so important. All sports require a unique blend of these abilities. Your training program should reflect the priorities that the sport dictates.


 Periodizational training allows to peak in multiple sports at different times but focusing more one aspect at each point of the year.

Periodization Programs at StewSmith.com - Military or Law Enforcement Fitness - Navy, Army, Coast Guard, Marines, RECON, SEAL, Ranger, Police, FBI


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## Call of Ktulu (Oct 5, 2011)

wisco said:


> I'm making the point that is possible to become faster and stronger. My run time has become faster. I have become stronger. Same time.
> Croxdale, Clay Matthews, Ken Norton, Mike Tyson, and any UFC guy you want to pick are not "Jack's" of strength _and_ speed? They have not become bigger faster and stronger simultaneously?
> Obviously those guys are the best at what they do, but it just goes to show once again it is very possible.


Justin Wilcox is a pro bodybuilder and mma fighter.


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## CowPimp (Oct 5, 2011)

wisco said:


> So, it does work. Glad we figured that out.



What do you mean by "it does work?"

Think about it like this.  Compare the strongest football player, soccer player, or basketball player to the strongest powerlifter or strongman competitor.  Do they even compare?  Hardly.  

Are all of the aforementioned athletes compared to your average recreational gymgoer?  Of course they are, but that doesn't mean they are anywhere near their max potential unless they prioritize that specific biomotor ability.

Saying that you can see improvement in multiple abilities at the same time is obvious.  That doesn't mean it makes sense to try and equally train all those abilities at the same time.


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## wisco (Oct 5, 2011)

How can you really judge what someone's max potential is an dhow far they are from it? The point it, YES you can continue to become faster and stronger. Go back and read what I have said, I am not going to keep repeating myself in circles. 

Getting faster and stronger, with limitations and a million variables. I am living proof. (I am no olympic runner or pro strongman but if I can do both I assume most people can.)


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## CowPimp (Oct 7, 2011)

wisco said:


> How can you really judge what someone's max potential is an dhow far they are from it? The point it, YES you can continue to become faster and stronger. Go back and read what I have said, I am not going to keep repeating myself in circles.
> 
> Getting faster and stronger, with limitations and a million variables. I am living proof. (I am no olympic runner or pro strongman but if I can do both I assume most people can.)



Performance differences of a few percentage points makes a huge difference in athletic endeavors.  Some biomotor abilities have some crossover in terms of what is happening physiologically to improve the effect.  Some do not.  If you try to enhance aerobic endurance and rate of force development, you WILL sacrifice a substantial amount of performance.  If you do the same with maximal strength and RFD, then there won't be much of a problem at all.


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## Usealittle (Oct 8, 2011)

CowPimp said:


> Powerlifting type training should never make you slower.  If anything, it should improve rate of force development. It is a myth that resistance training makes you slower.




Powerlifting "type" of training should not make u slow.... Unless your REALLY TRYInG TO LIFT HEAVY! Witch would be the point of powerlifting. If your doin as you say powerlifting "style" then u might as well do oly lifting (for form) or just go cross fit. As if you have not noticed that's what cross-fit is. Just with much lighter weight. 

So for you to say you can powerlift and not get slow, is not smart. If a weight being moved is heavy it will move slow........


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## CowPimp (Oct 10, 2011)

Usealittle said:


> Powerlifting "type" of training should not make u slow.... Unless your REALLY TRYInG TO LIFT HEAVY! Witch would be the point of powerlifting. If your doin as you say powerlifting "style" then u might as well do oly lifting (for form) or just go cross fit. As if you have not noticed that's what cross-fit is. Just with much lighter weight.
> 
> So for you to say you can powerlift and not get slow, is not smart. If a weight being moved is heavy it will move slow........



That is just plain wrong.  It will not make you slow.  This is a complete misnomer.  Lifting very heavy weights, even slowly, will never make you slow.  The only reason the heavy weight is moving slow is because you can't possibly produce enough force to move it quickly.  When you are talking about moving submaximal loads, things change.

Think of it like this.  If you take two people: one who can deadlift a 1RM of 500 pounds and one who can deadlift a 1RM of 700 pounds, who would you guess is capable of moving 400 pounds at a higher velocity?  My vote is going to person B.  By increasing maximal strength, you decrease the intensity of moving submaximal external loads.

Granted, what I have just stated applies less when we're talking about very submaximal weights, such as your bodyweight or a very light implement like a ball.  However, the same still applies to some extent.  By increasing maximal strength it doesn't much affect the maximal velocity at which you are capable of moving/accelerating a limb.  It does, however, improve the velocity at which you can move that limb if it is loaded in an significant fashion.  In some cases, this does apply to bodyweight, especially when we're talking about the full load of your bodyweight being manipulated by a single limb (Which happens plenty in most athletic endeavors).

Improving maximal strength will help more in some sports than others.  Football and wrestling are two examples where it can help quite a lot.  However, it will NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, make you slower.


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## CowPimp (Oct 10, 2011)

Also, Crossfit training can under no circumstances be considered powerlifter style training.  There is absolutely no resemblance.  

What I meant was training like a powerlifter.  You can train like a powerlifter without actually competing in powerlifting.


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## awhites1 (Nov 10, 2011)

VolcomX311 said:


> BTW, I don't mean to come off as pretentious know-it-all douche, this is just how I sound/post when I'm trying to be helpful.



Too late...


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## VolcomX311 (Nov 10, 2011)

awhites1 said:


> Too late...


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## BUCKY (Nov 11, 2011)

I doubt it's done in the same day. Boxers rarely lift heavy weights. It's a misconception, it used to be the norm.



Call of Ktulu said:


> How can a person do both? I know a lot of boxers have to run many miles but a lot of them have great power such as Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson would do over an hour of cardio a day and he would do heavy squats, how? How can a powerlifter have good endurance? How do you crosstrain like that?


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