# How Many IM Gun Owners



## Spitfire (Aug 28, 2005)

If so what do you have?


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## gococksDJS (Aug 28, 2005)

I have a remington 12g pump, a winchester 12g semi-auto and a Ruger GP100 .357 magnum


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## Chain Link (Aug 28, 2005)

AR-15, Semi Auto M4 Config, incomplete(Ive been building it up piece by piece)
Im 21 this Sept 22 so Im debating adding a little one to the family 
FNP-9, USP .45 Tact, or a Five seveN. The later of the two would run me about $1000   So maybe Ill go with the 9mm.. or for now just finish the ARF 

BTW You should be able to delete the other thread yourself I think- there should be a,"Delete this message/thread" box at the top, select the "delete this thread" button, and click the delete button and it should poof I think


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## gococksDJS (Aug 28, 2005)

oh, my ruger has a 6" barrel


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## THEUNIT(XXL) (Aug 28, 2005)

Chain Link said:
			
		

> AR-15, Semi Auto M4 Config, incomplete(Ive been building it up piece by piece)
> Im 21 this Sept 22 so Im debating adding a little one to the family
> FNP-9, USP .45 Tact, or a Five seveN. The later of the two would run me about $1000   So maybe Ill go with the 9mm.. or for now just finish the ARF
> 
> BTW You should be able to delete the other thread yourself I think- there should be a,"Delete this message/thread" box at the top, select the "delete this thread" button, and click the delete button and it should poof I think


WHAT DO YOU NEED A USP .45 FOR?! KILLING A DEER?!


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## Spitfire (Aug 28, 2005)

I looked right after I happened it wasnt there, thanks Chain Link.


			
				gococksDJS said:
			
		

> I have a remington 12g pump, a winchester 12g semi-auto and a Ruger GP100 .357 magnum


I have always like rugers revolvers better then all other revolver Ive shot.

I have a Springfield XD9, But I want now either a Beretta Steel I 92 ,or build my own 1911 from a Springfield A1-1911 frame. Not sure yet.
Any suggestions


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## kraziplaya (Aug 28, 2005)

i have a glock 23 with upgrades...walther p99 40cal....glock 26...mossy 590a1 with a tactical stock...im currently looking on a good deal on an ar15


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## THEUNIT(XXL) (Aug 28, 2005)

Hey the ar15 is really popular right now, witch I don't understand because it's really small and needs 141.934.235.345 mods and upgrades to do anything at all.


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## Chain Link (Aug 28, 2005)

No no, not a USP .45, a USP .45 Tactical. It has better accuracy, and a threaded O-Ring to equip a silencer with. It also has a match grade trigger and raised sights for use with the silencer.


Jeez, Id have expected you to ask what the Next generation body armor piercing capable FiveseveN was for, but I was wrong. 
 

For the record- The FivenseveN for unmatched accuracy, range, and a 20 round clip so I wouldnt be putting strain on the spring with like 7 rounds. Its also light, slim, and damn cool looking which is a plus in my book 
Granted the AP ammo is not civvie legal, and You would have to custom load your own to get it to the armor piercing level. Its also a weak round, claimed similar to 9mm, but I also hear otherwise.

The USP .45 Tactical is for the confidence of hitting what you intend to break, or kill.  With the great accuracy, and power of the .45 round you only need one round to stop your TV from floating away in the dark of the night(LOL, Chain Link, prepare to be flamed!) The silencer could be damn useful if I ever decide to go target shooting in my back yard; I can just put the targets on the wall of my neighbors house(away from windows, wouldnt want to break those) 

And the M4gery is for fighting off the bloody king of England.

For those most part my attraction to guns is the same as someone's attraction to a '59 mustang or some other unreasonable expensive and kind of ugly car. Im more of a collector than a shooter; But Im also a good shooter. I also have a concrete safe built into my house so I dont have to worry about someone else stealing the and using them for purposes I wouldnt enjoy(esp against me   )
And in the unlikely case some sick fuq goes off shooting people in my neighborhood, it would be nice to see a headline read,"Armed civilian owns *randomassholecriminal*" But that will never happen


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## Chain Link (Aug 28, 2005)

THEUNIT(XXL) said:
			
		

> Hey the ar15 is really popular right now, witch I don't understand because it's really small and needs 141.934.235.345 mods and upgrades to do anything at all.


You're right, For half the cost you could get a semi auto AK which has similar accuracy(but less) than an M4gery, and a more powerful round.

My reason is because I like the AR 15- The history, the fact that its an American designed, made, and adopted by the military rifle. The high modability is a plus IMO. You can have a M4-style which is like a semi auto SMG with great range and accuracy, or in one minute switch out the upper and have a 20" barrel with a free float tube, RIS, and long range scope making it one heck of a semi-auto sniper rifle.
As a semi auto sniper its actually cheaper than many of the others of its class.


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 28, 2005)




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## Tough Old Man (Aug 28, 2005)

just the one between my legs. All other types are against the law to possess in Mexico


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 28, 2005)

Chain Link said:
			
		

> You're right, For half the cost you could get a semi auto AK which has similar accuracy(but less) than an M4gery, and a more powerful round.
> 
> My reason is because I like the AR 15- The history, the fact that its an American designed, made, and adopted by the military rifle. The high modability is a plus IMO. You can have a M4-style which is like a semi auto SMG with great range and accuracy, or in one minute switch out the upper and have a 20" barrel with a free float tube, RIS, and long range scope making it one heck of a semi-auto sniper rifle.
> As a semi auto sniper its actually cheaper than many of the others of its class.


You could go buy a winchester-70 or a rem-700 and
have yourself a full blown counter sniper setup for $300-400
(more reliable, easier to get ammo in the bush, way more power)


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## Chain Link (Aug 28, 2005)

Chain Link said:
			
		

> one heck of a semi-auto sniper rifle.
> 
> 
> As a semi auto sniper





			
				The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> You could go buy a winchester-70 or a rem-700 and
> have yourself a full blown counter sniper setup for $300-400
> (more reliable, easier to get ammo in the bush, way more power)


Those are both bolt action though. Agreed- Both more accurate, reliable(What fails on a Bolt Action Rifle, lol?), and powerful; but still not semi auto 
But Im gonna keep those in mind in case I ever want a bolt action. I'd perfer a .338 laupa 
http://www.impactguns.com/store/3178900993.html
but $8,700 is slightly outrageous when I could get a .50BMG semi auto for $7,200 http://www.impactguns.com/store/BAR-82A1SWED.html ;
$400 for a .308 sounds MUCH better!

Heres an apparently(?) mercenary US Sniper in Iraq using an AR-15 setup. http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2677403?htv=12&htv=12&htv=12 Not sure what use a civvie would legally find aside from some plinking under any likely circumstances; same goes for a fire extiguisher 

Edit: And for those wondering if Im insane.. I just enjoy having the best


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## Witmaster (Aug 28, 2005)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> just the one between my legs. *All other types are against the law to possess in Mexico*


you're kidding, right?


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 28, 2005)

The current record for longest range sniper kill is 2,430 metres (7,972 ft), reportedly accomplished by a Canadian sniper in 2002, during the invasion of Afghanistan, using a .50 BMG (12.7 mm) McMillan bolt-action rifle

Rapid fire rifles are made for assault, or to be used by soldiers
who are less than skilled marksmen...  IE, to lay down cover fire

Just because you can shoot really fast with a semi auto rifle
doesn't mean you will hit anything -


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 28, 2005)

BOLT ACTION at work -


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## Chain Link (Aug 28, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> The current record for longest range sniper kill is 2,430 metres (7,972 ft), reportedly accomplished by a Canadian sniper in 2002, during the invasion of Afghanistan, using a .50 BMG (12.7 mm) McMillan bolt-action rifle
> 
> Rapid fire rifles are made for assault, or to be used by soldiers
> who are less than skilled marksmen...  IE, to lay down cover fire
> ...


 Id say semi would be useful for engaging multiple targets at a closer range than a bolt could manage. Longer range doesnt help much if you're overrun, so it has its uses. Personally if I were picking something for sniping Id go with bolt. I was  just saying that as a semi auto sniper rifle, despite being an AR 15, its actually one of the more cost effective of its class  
 As for the .50BMG semi preference to a Bolt .338.. the .50BMG is going to take out people, vehicles, and just about anything else at a range they arent even a threat to you; the .338 would only be more useful to fill the need of counter sniping IMO; and a Bolt .50BMG with a 36" barrel would stand king over everything- If I had one of those, Id invent an exterior device to chamber the next round, and belt feed the sum'bitch so the ownage would never stop 
You're right though, the usefulness of rapid fire decreases with range.. This is also why SMGs are full auto.

I dont plan on doing any sniping though; and in the impossible chance should anything ever happen, the M4gery has sufficient range in the suburbs; meanwhile Ill settle for plinking Bin-Laden Silhouette targets 

Ive seen that video somewhere before, thats a .50, right? Arent .50BMG,"supposed" to be against Geneva conventions to use on people?
Ive heard in the army they teach you not to shoot people with them; but if you need to you can shoot their water bottle, or binoculars and if it just happens to hit them.. well, shit happens


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 28, 2005)

.338 win mag, is supposed to be the most versitle game hunting cartridge
(I have one in browning a-bolt)

I think the military uses .338 lapua mag -


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 28, 2005)

Yep... here we go...


*[size=+1]STINGS LIKE A BEE: The .338 Lapua and the ERMA SR100[/size]* _*It consistently outperforms NATO's most common-used sniper rifles, claims an MOA of .2, and can pierce body armor at ranges of up to 1,000 meters. Since its inception, the .338-chambered SR100 sniper rifle has been a popular -- and deadly -- preference for sharpshooters.*_






*A mighty one-two combination: The .338 Lapua and the ERMA SR100 (Photo *


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## cappo5150 (Aug 28, 2005)

I have a MAK 90 Semi auto, Beretta 9mm, Bersa Thunder .380 and a Beretta .22


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## Chain Link (Aug 28, 2005)

drool~~~
I just read though, that rifle run $9000 in .308 alone, .338 is probably killer(finacially)

Just curious; whats the more accurate/powerful round- .338 Win Mag, or 30-06?


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## GFR (Aug 28, 2005)

Not yet.....but soon


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 28, 2005)

Chain Link said:
			
		

> whats the more accurate/powerful round- .338 Win Mag, or 30-06?


.338 is brutal

I use custom 250 grain sierra game king boattail rounds for my .338
They are the perfect balance of speed, range and accuracy - IMO

I don't think the 30-06 is as sensitive to loads,
however I never experimented with it
I use military ammo in mine -  

http://glocktalk.com/sitemap/topic/410970-1.html


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 28, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Not yet.....but soon


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## Chain Link (Aug 28, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> http://glocktalk.com/sitemap/topic/410970-1.html


that awnsered my question-
.338 is larger, and more powerful, but recoil is, like you said, brutal. 30-06 they claim to be reasonable on the recoil.
Not sure what I would go with, but if I get a bolt its going to be .338 Win Mag, 30-06, or (and only) if its signifigantly cheaper, a .308


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 28, 2005)

What would you plan on doing with a bolt action rifle???

IMO...
(And I tend to always do this)

If you want a bolt action...

Go with the .308...

That way you can always scarf up nato ammo
if need be..

Also, the same rounds can be used in
any M14, FAL, IMBEL, or ar10 style rifles


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## Chain Link (Aug 28, 2005)

I dont know, but they're sounding really f*cking cool right now!


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## Chain Link (Aug 28, 2005)

Hunting, Hunting is always an excuse! One thing I know is that you can use a caliber too small when hunting; however, you can never use a round too big.

For instance, you and your uncle go deer hunting. You bring your .50BMG..
Your uncle will be saying something like,"I love hunting.. Rolling around in the dirt, taking a day off where your main goal is to do nothing but lie around. Then to top it off, you get to eat venison, which is awesome! But you know what I hate? Gutting the deer, I feel so bad for"

*BAM!!!*

You say,"I dont think you'll have to worry about that Jerry." And then the top half of the deer starts raining down from above. Your uncle sees none of this, of course, because the deer was a mile away. If you're in a building, he will be firmly affixed to the ceiling for hours if its his first time hearing a .50..
You shoot it with a .223 and it lives, however, then you feel bad for wounding it


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 28, 2005)

Yes, processing is why I don't hunt deer

If you want a cool .308 Bolt action

look into used units on police auction
they often have cool barrel work and stocks and trigger stuff...
watch out for optics though,
most police armors setup the optics
on rifles like shit
- IMO (and I'm only talking locally also)


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 28, 2005)

Have you been here

I have found a couple of nice things on this site -


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## Chain Link (Aug 28, 2005)

Yeah  Gunbroker, and occasionally on ar15.com you can find incredible deals; and ussually good ones as well(Not just on ARFs)
Edit: Wow, I hadnt checked for .338 win mag in general.. theres alot of nice stuff there around $500..


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 28, 2005)

You can get a collectors license here

And then you can buy pistols older than 1898
and rifles older than 1948 for dirt cheap

With no checks involved, not even an instant check
I got a few cool WWII guns like that


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## THEUNIT(XXL) (Aug 29, 2005)

Chain Link said:
			
		

> No no, not a USP .45, a USP .45 Tactical. It has better accuracy, and a threaded O-Ring to equip a silencer with. It also has a match grade trigger and raised sights for use with the silencer.
> 
> 
> Jeez, Id have expected you to ask what the Next generation body armor piercing capable FiveseveN was for, but I was wrong.
> ...



Ah that's better!
What do I care what you need your armor piercing rounds for? that's between you and the S.W.A.T. team  

But I would like to know more about that FivenseveN or something, because You need to hit your target not empty your clip and left without or need to put a new clip in.

And the headline would say:"Group af terrorists was slaughtered by a group of militia, witch later was found out to be only one man called "Chain link", the man killed every terrorist with his small arsenal" or something like this.


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## THEUNIT(XXL) (Aug 29, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> Have you been here
> 
> I have found a couple of nice things on this site -


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## THEUNIT(XXL) (Aug 29, 2005)

He chain, what the fuck do you need the berret for man? that's a .50 man, you'll blow your own shoulder of man.
Hey you know witch I like? The Heckler an Koch G3A3! No it's not a sniper but because of it's accurate it's like the ar15 great to modify and not "long distance" but you'll get a nice clear shot in 0-800 metrs and knowing that U could use it as an assault riffle as well makes it a perfect combo between accuracy and power.
You could be sniping one moment and getting up and assaulting a house next, but no you can't compare it to real sniper riffles but I love this one man!!
I've got two modified the fuck out of one and left the other one clean. well clean I still taped it(guns are not legal here), double clipped it, and a 200-300mtr scope on it, but the other one is so modified that even the laser is modified!
I mist say it's nice to see so many people with a lot of knowledge on guns 





Here this picture the one one the top is the g3a3 and it's modified with a granade launcher(!) it looks small but It's quite long actually.





Here this is one I have also but I don't like it because it doesn't lay nice onto your shoulder. It's the fourth one from the bottem it's called a g36k but this pic is from a g36kE I don't know what it means but it looks the same.






Here's a nice one I found but you can't buy this one it's for the marine corps, I'll copy the text that goes with it.




Rare prototype variant of the MSG90 made for the Marine Corps, but not adopted.  Called the MSG90 DMR (Designated Marksman Rifle) They requested iron sights, and a flash hider.


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## Super Hulk (Aug 29, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> .338 is brutal
> 
> I use custom 250 grain sierra game king boattail rounds for my .338
> They are the perfect balance of speed, range and accuracy - IMO
> ...



what is your name on glock talk ? I post there too


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## Tough Old Man (Aug 29, 2005)

Witmaster said:
			
		

> you're kidding, right?


Nope it is against the law to have Amo or any type of hand guns or rifles here. Although a lot of the ranchers to have 22 rifles to protect against coyotes. Even the police are forbidden to possess hand guns. The are issued to them at there place of business and checked back in at the end of there shift. 


PT


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 29, 2005)

H&K...

The G3 variations of H&K use 7.62x51 nato (.308)

The G36 variations use 5.56x45 nato (rem.223)

The difference between the 36's
36 is the original H&K german army variation...
the 36k is the 38mm shorter paratrooper version...
the 36ke is the spanish variation used by spain, but built to german specs (supposedly)

Also on the g3's... spain has it's own version (cetme)
Spain also handed off the specs for the G3 to Brazil
who now makes the Imbel rifles...
there are also 2 US manufacturers that I know of...

As I hear it, the original G3 Cetme rifles, owned by germany
but manufactured in spain on german made tooling, supervised by
experienced german engineers, are the best made rifles you can get!!
I have no idea what the marking or serial #'s of these guns are


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## Witmaster (Aug 29, 2005)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Nope it is against the law to have Amo or any type of hand guns or rifles here. Although a lot of the ranchers to have 22 rifles to protect against coyotes. Even the police are forbidden to possess hand guns. The are issued to them at there place of business and checked back in at the end of there shift.
> 
> 
> PT


That just amazes me.  Is it that way all across Mexico or just in the Baja area where you live?


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## Witmaster (Aug 29, 2005)

Nevermind... I found my answer.  I thought this article was interesting.

Mexico smuggles a illegal aliens across our borders.  We smuggle illegal weapons across theirs.


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 29, 2005)

The Mexican Border should be your next duty assignment WIT


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## THEUNIT(XXL) (Aug 29, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> H&K...
> 
> The G3 variations of H&K use 7.62x51 nato (.308)
> 
> ...




I don't have that modified rifle, but I have the G3 and the G36 so I know some shit on them.

Hey what you think on them new shit:






The first underwater pistol HK P11
















Here check this:Front view of P11 pistol showing all five chambers fired.  The unit must now be sent back to HK Germany for reloading/resealing.






Very basically, the U.S. military wanted a weapon system that mates a conventional rifle with a 20mm "cannon" that is capable of delivering a special munition that can be user set to explode with an airburst at user determined and programmable ranges.  What looks like an M16 underneath should give you pause to look closer.  It is a variant of the HK G36K, with an M16 magazine adapter!  This is something that HK promises for the conventional G36 series as well.  The selector switch and the flash hider are the G36K variant giveaway.

Proof once again that when the military needs something on the cutting edge, HK is the logical choice.  A bargain price for the military?  $10,000 to $12,000 each, and $25-$30 a pop for the 20mm ammunition.   The military plans an initial order of 45,000 units, and for them to be fielded with special units by 2009.  The U.S. Military has given the OICW the designation M29.

This some modifying right here!! it's for the new G3(6)


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## DOMS (Aug 29, 2005)

Hey ChainLink, what's your take on this gun:http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Auto-Pistols/SW_4506.htm ?


 As for hunting, I'll call it a sport when the prey has a the chance to kill the hunter. 

 Now _*that's*_ a spectator sport!


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 29, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> Hey ChainLink, what's your take on this gun:http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Auto-Pistols/SW_4506.htm ?
> 
> 
> As for hunting, I'll call it a sport when the prey has a the chance to kill the hunter.
> ...


Smith & Wesson sux the big donkey dick...
Fucking Commie sellout faggots -  

Don't Buy their shit -


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 29, 2005)

THEUNIT(XXL) said:
			
		

> The first underwater pistol HK P11


Maintenance Divers from California
Have been using a standard Glock 21 (.45)
for shark defence since the mid 90's

Glock does much of it's functionality testing
in a saltwater ENV


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## DOMS (Aug 29, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> Smith & Wesson sux the big donkey dick...
> Fucking Commie sellout faggots -
> 
> Don't Buy their shit -


 Can you elaborate?


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 29, 2005)

March 17, 2000
Web posted at: 9:37 p.m. EST (0237 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Smith & Wesson, the nation's largest gun manufacturer, agreed Friday to a landmark legal settlement in which the company will make several changes in its gun marketing, manufacturing and design practices. 

Calling the settlement a "major victory for America's families," President Bill Clinton said the agreement "says that gun makers can and will share in the responsibility to keep their products out of the wrong hands. And it says that gun makers can and will make their guns much safer without infringing on anyone's rights." 

The Connecticut-based company has agreed to include child safety locks, ensure background checks both at retail stores and gun shows and take so-called ballistic fingerprints of its guns, among other provisions. In exchange, state and local governments will drop pending lawsuits against the company, and the federal government will not file suit, as it had said it would in December 1999 unless a settlement could be reached. 

The accord does not affect suits pending against the nation's other gun manufacturers, but the president added that he hoped it would encourage other companies to respond in kind. 

"The effort to reduce gun violence is not about politics," Clinton said. "It is about saving lives. This agreement shows we can get so much done when we find the courage to find common ground." 

Smith & Wesson agreed to a "code of conduct" for future sales and distribution of handguns. In exchange, all pending or future suits at the state and local level against the company will be dismissed. The agreement does not affect current or future lawsuits with the nation's other gun manufacturers. 

Among other items, the agreement requires the company to: 

*--Immediately begin selling all Smith & Wesson guns with locks. *

*--Build the locks into the weapon within two years. *

*--Ensure within two years that its guns cannot be fired by a child. *

*--Incorporate "smart gun technology" within three years ensuring that only an authorized user will be able to fire the weapon. *

*--Instruct dealers to not sell a gun until a criminal background check is completed -- even if it takes more than 72 hours under which the check must be completed by current law. *

*--Instruct dealers not to complete a gun show sale unless a background check is completed. *

*--Include a second, hidden serial number to help law enforcement trace guns. *

*--Work with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms to develop a system in which every new gun is test fired and the results entered into a new ballistic, imaging system to trace casings found at crime scenes. *

*--Require gun purchasers to certify they have completed a firearm safety course. *

The agreement caps a remarkable week in which Democrats in Congress have pushed hard on the issue of gun safety, and the National Rifle Association has tried to portray the Clinton Administration as lax in enforcing existing gun laws in a series of increasingly personal and bitter attacks by the group. 

Smith & Wesson President and Chief Executive Officer Ed Shultz acknowledged that the agreement "will not be popular with everyone, but to us it makes sense and is the right thing to do." He added that it will allow ensure the future viability of the company. 

Early reactions by to the announcement by the gun lobby proved Shultz right. 

"It has taken the full weight of the federal government at taxpayer expense to put a stranglehold on one of the largest producers of a legal product in this country to force it to change its behavior," said John Velleco of the Gun Owners of America. The Springfield, Virginia-based lobbying group claims it has more than 200,000 members. 

"The fact is, these anti-safety gun restrictions that the president is supporting will cost lives. They will hurt the ability of honest people to defend themselves. And that's the bottom line," said GOA executive director Larry Pratt. 

Other gun groups sounded a similar theme. "It is a source of disappointment that Smith & Wesson representatives would elect to make this one-sided agreement with the Clinton Adminstration with no notification or consultation with the rest of the industry," said a statement issued by the National Shoot Sports Foundation Inc., which describes itself as the world's largest firearms trade organization. 

And an NRA spokesman called the agreement "tantamount to back door blackmail," and predicted that the nation's other gun manufacturers will not follow suit and will continue to manufacture and sell guns the way they always have.


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## bio-chem (Aug 29, 2005)

if its hunting in north america alone, and your not going for some nasty grizzly somewhere in alaska the 30-06 would be the best all around round for hunting.

and why the heck would the geneva convention specify what cal. you could use on humans? especially when we have grenades and such.


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## Chain Link (Aug 29, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> Hey ChainLink, what's your take on this gun:http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Auto-Pistols/SW_4506.htm ?
> 
> 
> As for hunting, I'll call it a sport when the prey has a the chance to kill the hunter.
> ...



That specific gun Id recommend against to anyone, because
1). Its $790
2). Its double action only

The same model can be found with Single Action/Double Action, and for almost half the price, for instance.. - http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976625824.htm
That one does not have the adjustable sights, which id count as a minus.. Even my cheap walmart c02 gun has adjustable sights.
having a 5" barrel, its too big to be used for concealed carry in most cases, which makes having a single stack 8 round magazine pointless.
The model has few mods available, and was discontinued in 1999, so replacement parts will be/become scarce, and expensive.

Id say its really a collectors piece.. Due to lack of features, and being discontinued. If its a gun you fall in love with, then try to find it with SA/DA, and adjustable sights. Also try not to spend over $550 on it, in great/new condition(Heck, if you can confirm the one above is SA/DA its not a half bad deal itself.. most people dont use the adjustable sights anyways  )- If you find that Id say its not a half bad deal.
In the end it comes down to taste, not only for the looks of the gun, but the feel of it also(my local shop lets people play with everything.. Desert Eagles weight like 7 lbs!   ) The more comfortable you are with a specific gun, the more effective you'll be with it.. whether it be the at the range or self defense, IMO.
Id say browse around and see what else you can get for the same price in the same caliber. I couldnt even find reviews for the 4506.

Oh, and theres that part Monkey Man said about them being pussified. Obviously large lawsuits are a threat, and the Clintons can be scary(Hillary Clinton is still to date the only Politician Ive actually watched flat out, and blatantly lie. They all lie, I know, but I found it disgusting to have to sit through and watch.) Colt also has a bad rep After Donald Zilkha bought the company, as he was against civilian gun ownership, and financed "gun control" politicians.. Zilkha No long owns Colt though..(Heck, he never did, he owned Colt Manufacturing Incorporated... Conneticut owned the name,"Colt" as they left a large debt when they went bankrupt.)

On a side note, it was just the other day a friend and I were joking about starting a fund under PETA to buy, and equip Deer and other wildlife with bullet proof vests. The conversation then brought up some weird ass hunter who actually hunter over the internet with a net controlled camera and gun; which lead us to the idea of mounting rifles on the back of Deer(with bulletproof body armor) and letting people pay to man the guns over the net.. I dont think it would work out as wed be in jail, but it was a cool idea


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## Chain Link (Aug 29, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> if its hunting in north america alone, and your not going for some nasty grizzly somewhere in alaska the 30-06 would be the best all around round for hunting.
> 
> and why the heck would the geneva convention specify what cal. you could use on humans? especially when we have grenades and such.



I have NO idea, I always found it retarded as if that round hits you just about anywhere you're gonna die very fast. Apparently its too gruesome and inhumane or something


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 29, 2005)

Chain Link said:
			
		

> the idea of mounting rifles on the back of Deer(with bulletproof bodyarmor) and letting people pay to man the guns over the net..


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## Chain Link (Aug 29, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> Maintenance Divers from California
> Have been using a standard Glock 21 (.45)
> for shark defence since the mid 90's
> 
> ...


A standard glock 21 is capable of that? Id read it took a kit for a Glock 17 to do it..

Also A local merchant was advertising the HS2000(Which is the original, and twin of) The Springfield XD9 was also capable of firing, and cycling underwater.
I would definitely be interested in playing with that.. but then again I wonder.. Should a gunshot damn near deafen you in the water? Or perhaps the fact that water is a better medium also causes it to disperse better..


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 29, 2005)

Chain Link said:
			
		

> A standard glock 21 is capable of that? Id read it took a kit for a Glock 17 to do it..QUOTE]
> 
> I read a mag article on it moons ago...
> When the Magazine people found out about it, they went down
> ...


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## Spitfire (Aug 29, 2005)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> just the one between my legs. All other types are against the law to possess in Mexico


I thought Mexicos Gun law were very Texasish.


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## DOMS (Aug 29, 2005)

Chain Link said:
			
		

> That specific gun Id recommend against to anyone, because
> 1). Its $790
> 2). Its double action only
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the info ChainLink!

 It's funny that you should mention the Desert Eagle.  Back when I was 21, on a whim I went to the firing range.  I walked up to the clerk and said that I'd like to shoot a gun.  He asked me if I'd ever fired a gun before, to which I answered "no".  He said, "I've got just the gun for you."  Sure enough, it was a Desert Eagle.  At the end of 200 rounds, he looked at my targets and said that I shot well.


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## Spitfire (Aug 29, 2005)

cappo5150 said:
			
		

> I have a MAK 90 Semi auto, Beretta 9mm, Bersa Thunder .380 and a Beretta .22


Is the Beretta 9mm a 92 or a couger
and the .22 a tomcat or a bobcat?


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## maniclion (Aug 29, 2005)

I had several guns in Texas, but when I moved to Hawaii I left them with my father, he died and my Step-Bitch(his wife) pawned or stole them.  I'd really like my sawed off .410 w/ buckshot for perfect home defense and my fathers treasured 270 Win.


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## maniclion (Aug 29, 2005)

I'm sure you can carry a gun anytime you want in Mexico as long as you have 2 holsters....


 one for the gun and one for the big roll of bribe money.


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## Spitfire (Aug 29, 2005)

I think adj. sights are imo over rated my XD out of box shot dead on.  Even if it didnt a simple tap with a brass punch, and your straight.

I think the colt commander if I can find on priced right, might make a good addition


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## FishOrCutBait (Aug 29, 2005)

I own 3 shotguns, 1 rifle.


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## DOMS (Aug 29, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> I read a mag article on it moons ago...
> When the Magazine people found out about it, they went down
> and did an article, testing, and a full write-up,
> to substantiate the rumors
> ...


  I'll never buy a Glock.  They're not reliable. 

 I had a friend who lived in Queen Creek, AZ. His father is Irish and his mother is Japanese, but he looks like a short Mexican. We'll can him Steve.

 He used to do enforcement for the meth dealers. Steve would go out and collect on any outstanding payments. One day he had to go collect from someone that he knew personally, and was a big wuss. So he wasn't too worried about collecting on him.

 He shows up at the guy's house and after a few minutes of talking, the guys says he'll give him the money. Out of nowhere the guy whips out a Glock and tracked on Steve. Doing the only thing he could, he stepped into the guy. In desperation, the guy whipped the butt-end of the gun into Steve's head. The gun fell apart on contact. Steven then beat the crap out of the guy, took anything of value, and left.

   Since the gun fell apart when he was pistol-whipped, Steve swore he'd never buy a Glock.  He said they're unreliable.


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## Spitfire (Aug 29, 2005)

maniclion said:
			
		

> I had several guns in Texas, but when I moved to Hawaii I left them with my father, he died and my Step-Bitch(his wife) pawned or stole them.  I'd really like my sawed off .410 w/ buckshot for perfect home defense and my fathers treasured 270 Win.


I hope you dont have to use a sawed off in an apartment.
I have a mag set up with 15 hollow point in case some shit goes down inthe street, one set up with standard round for in apartment defense, and one with snap caps for practice. I sure hope I grab the right one in crunch time.


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 29, 2005)

Glocks not reliable!?!? (Not the general info I recieved)

For Home D, I have my H&K USP45
it's setup with bee-safe frangible ammo
And I have an adapter with an m6 tac-lite & laser on it

If mr. dumass ever invaded my bedroom...
I also keep a remington 870 with dual pistol
grips and a ten shot mag
(not within reach of my bed, but close)...
























I'm always ready for 
when they come. -


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## maniclion (Aug 29, 2005)

Spitfire said:
			
		

> I hope you dont have to use a sawed off in an apartment.
> I have a mag set up with 15 hollow point in case some shit goes down inthe street, one set up with standard round for in apartment defense, and one with snap caps for practice. I sure hope I grab the right one in crunch time.


If shit goes down in my house I would prefer the .410 shotgun since even my gf could fire it if needed. Of course she is terrified of guns as most Hawaii born folks are, guns just aren't as common as they are on the mainland in fact the only guns she ever sees are the ones the police carry.


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## Chain Link (Aug 29, 2005)

THEUNIT(XXL) said:
			
		

> I don't have that modified rifle, but I have the G3 and the G36 so I know some shit on them.
> 
> Hey what you think on them new shit:


Me Likes, It looks like a mix between the HK UMP, and G36.. Kind of like a G36 Carbine!


			
				THEUNIT(XXL) said:
			
		

> Very basically, the U.S. military wanted a weapon system that mates a conventional rifle with a 20mm "cannon" that is capable of delivering a special munition that can be user set to explode with an airburst at user determined and programmable ranges.  What looks like an M16 underneath should give you pause to look closer.  It is a variant of the HK G36K, with an M16 magazine adapter!  This is something that HK promises for the conventional G36 series as well.  The selector switch and the flash hider are the G36K variant giveaway.
> 
> Proof once again that when the military needs something on the cutting edge, HK is the logical choice.  A bargain price for the military?  $10,000 to $12,000 each, and $25-$30 a pop for the 20mm ammunition.   The military plans an initial order of 45,000 units, and for them to be fielded with special units by 2009.  The U.S. Military has given the OICW the designation M29.


Man, I hope they dont try to outfit everyone with those. The 20mm 'nade launcher is neat as heck, sure.. and a few dollars is nothing when a soldier's life is on the line, but the actual,"rifle" itself underneath the laucher is like an SMG, the barrel doesnt look more than 10 inches.. If you detach the launcher it wouldnt be a half bad gun inner city, and esp close quarters, but it leavers medium and long range with alot to desire.. Im really interested in seeing one of those airburst grenades in action though. If they work like Im assuming from your description, I guess that would make up the medium range.. but the US armed forces will go broke, LOL! I wonder if the US will incorporate the FN F2000 as well   




http://world.guns.ru/assault/as41-e.htm

As for the FN FiveseveN, This is the killer




http://www.impactguns.com/store/818513002509.html
 It has several variants, but thats the basics; It uses a 5.7mmx28mm round, so its basically a small caliber magnum pistol round. Being a smaller round it gets more..um.. push from the same length barrel that a 9mm or .45 would get; it would be similar to almost doubling the barrel length of a .45 actually. And along with the extra barrel, it has that high amount of kick behind it from the long round. Another plus of the small round is the standard magazine capacity is 20 rounds, and its made with composite materials to minimize weight..
The recoil and sound have been claimed similar to a .22lr
The 5.7mm round is currently used only in the FiveseveN pistol, and FN P90 SMG,




http://www.impactguns.com/store/fn_p90.html
http://www.grohol.com/psypsych/wiki/FN_P90

Id have to agree that HK is the best source for a solid, dependable product, living up to their motto,"In a world of compromise, some dont."

But when you want the cutting edge best, FN is winning the Market. With the FiveseveN pistol , P90 SMG , F2000 Assault Rifle , FNP 9 Handgun(A cost effective 9mm) ,  FN303 Less Than Lethal Launcher , The Extremely High powered PGM modular Rifles , and wide array of high powered, highly effective military weapons(cant link directly on site, but- http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm)
The fill every need of the arms market. They even won the military contract to produce the US M16s in the 1990's, which was actually the cause of the invention of the M4 Carbine. Zilkha knew the civilian market hated him; without the military contract he might as well drink a gallon of diesel fuel.


Im shocked to hear you *may or may not* own firearms illegally. Are they completely outlawed in The Netherlands; or is it a matter of money, time, paperwork, and contacts?(Actually, those 4 thing can get you anything, rofl)
I like the G3 Rifles.. I like the G36 rifles even more.. Between the crappy US import laws, and the fact that HK just doesnt want to sell them to the US civvie market, we cant get them(Legally  )

My friend Otto had to serve a mandatory like 9 months to Germany; and he picked(or was made to do, I dont know the specifics) the army.. he got to play with the G36s, and said they were incredible. He even stole a few plastic magazines  among other things.. 

Us Gun laws are whacked though. We had a 10 year ban end last year the banned,"assault weapons" (Which were shown, and implied to be full automatics) the ban actually banned firearms which were used in less than 1% of firearm crime; and prohibited things from rifles such as bayonet lugs, grenade launcher(which were already illegal) and threaded barrels to equip silencers(despite silencers being legal!) Its all politics though.. The funny thing is, we can own .50bmg rifles, or for the right price, machine guns. However, the  FN303 Less Than Lethal Launcher which is designed to incapacitate, but not kill, is not civilian legal.
I guess it helps prevent lawsuits


----------



## The Monkey Man (Aug 29, 2005)

You guys crack me up - 

Let me know when you get your hands
on those, so I can try them out -


----------



## Spitfire (Aug 29, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> Glocks not reliable!?!? (Not the general info I recieved)
> 
> For Home D, I have my H&K USP45
> it's setup with bee-safe frangible ammo
> And I have an adapter with an m6 tac-lite & laser on it



I think I am going to get the M6 for my XD, though a guige rod laser would be nice, if I had an extra $400 to throw away, for a laser with no light.

I have never seen frangible rounds, I will pick up a box, they sound great for home.

For those who have also never heard
http://www.frangiblebullets.com/


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## Spitfire (Aug 29, 2005)

Is the compensator on the USP fixed?


----------



## The Monkey Man (Aug 29, 2005)

Spitfire said:
			
		

> I think I am going to get the M6 for my XD, though a guige rod laser would be nice, if I had an extra $400 to throw away, for a laser with no light.
> 
> I have never seen frangible rounds, I will pick up a box, they sound great for home.
> 
> ...


OMG that makes the fragibles sound wussy -  

The real reason pre-fragmented or the later frangible ammo was
so effective was that upon impact, the bullet fragments break into
various directions creating multiple wound paths, and causing
a nervous system shock effect

The shock effect and bleed out is supposed to cause an instant
or almost instant disabling of the target

lets get to the Strasbourg Tests...
I never found the test documentation but...
Frangible 9mm pistol ammo was supposedly tested on
mountain goats of the average weight as human males 160-180 lbs
in the European Alps...
They would shoot the goats and time how long it would take
for them to stop moving, calling this "disabling"
supposedly after they got the "disabling" time under 3 seconds
the bullets were ready for sale -


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## maniclion (Aug 29, 2005)

I bet a 410 full of buck shot to the face would stop anyone in under 2 seconds.


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## LAM (Aug 30, 2005)

Spitfire said:
			
		

> If so what do you have?



.40 S&W 4003TSW
Beretta 96 Brigadier Inox

* both get loaded with Cor-Bon 135-grain JHP rounds


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## TheCurse (Aug 30, 2005)

01' autococker.


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## THEUNIT(XXL) (Aug 30, 2005)

Chain Link said:
			
		

> Me Likes, It looks like a mix between the HK UMP, and G36.. Kind of like a G36 Carbine!
> 
> Man, I hope they dont try to outfit everyone with those. The 20mm 'nade launcher is neat as heck, sure.. and a few dollars is nothing when a soldier's life is on the line, but the actual,"rifle" itself underneath the laucher is like an SMG, the barrel doesnt look more than 10 inches.. If you detach the launcher it wouldnt be a half bad gun inner city, and esp close quarters, but it leavers medium and long range with alot to desire.. Im really interested in seeing one of those airburst grenades in action though. If they work like Im assuming from your description, I guess that would make up the medium range.. but the US armed forces will go broke, LOL! I wonder if the US will incorporate the FN F2000 as well
> 
> ...


I see the G36 in it but the UMP, no just the piece that you put against your shoulder.

The grenades are pretty fucking great(the 20mm's) they are not that big in explosion and therefor can be used in an urban environment, also you could take out several people at once, also because it has the normal gun under it, you can pop again if they walk on, but yeah it's not for outside the city it lacks real bad on the long distance and then you could pop of a 20mm round but that's also guessing where it will land, because it's not a rocket it's just a grenade, so it is launched but you will have to shoot it in a bow. I believe after 40 mtrs it starts to decent.
In The Netherlands it's not legal to own a gun after a few mofo's shut up a supermarket and some idiot cop shot and killed his whole family(I hated cop's before this but now I have a real reason)so now you need to be registered at a shooting range and you can't take your gun with you, Yeah I know it sucks but there are ways around this because, some time ago you  could buy them without anything(papers, license) in Belgium, and with all the borders open it's a piece of cake to get your hands on some rifles and nine's. but the new shit, you can't get that.
I've got a friend that can take care of business, that's all that I will say, I don't want to create any problems for him.
But he made sure that I have the best shit out.
That's how I got the G3A3 and the G36K, I was thinking on getting a P90, The commando's here use that now, so then I'll have to get it to


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 30, 2005)

maniclion said:
			
		

> I bet a 410 full of buck shot to the face would stop anyone in under 2 seconds.


These were body shots into the vital organs...

Most of the time the goats would run,
but later they could only take a step or two then drop

I also used to have a pic of some guys stateside who used 9mm
to kill large wild boar -


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 30, 2005)

Found it... This is the stuff..

Check out the Boar and the teeny little 9mm they supposedly used for the shot-  

Check out the pics of the damage shots in the gelatin, also very cool


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 30, 2005)

TheCurse said:
			
		

> 01' autococker.


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## Var (Aug 30, 2005)

I'm a gun owner.  I have lots of stuff.


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## TheCurse (Aug 30, 2005)

go ahead and laugh. but my autococker is a hardened piece of battle equipment.  it has killed hundreds of people, including cops, military, even navy SeALS.


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## buildingup (Aug 30, 2005)

i have never seen a gun before (in real life) and you guys talk of it as a toy, shit this stuff is designed to take a person's life! what are the laws regarding guns in the states? and are you allowed to carry them around with you? (i know laws differ in different states)


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 30, 2005)

buildingup said:
			
		

> i have never seen a gun before (in real life) and you guys talk of it as a toy, shit this stuff is designed to take a person's life! what are the laws regarding guns in the states? and are you allowed to carry them around with you? (i know laws differ in different states)


Come over to my house late tonight, and I'll show you!...

(Don't bother to knock)  


















*Spot of tea?*


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 30, 2005)

TheCurse said:
			
		

> go ahead and laugh. but my autococker is a hardened piece of battle equipment. it has killed hundreds of people, including cops, military, even navy SeALS.


Whoa there big fella, nothing against your marker...
(I happen to own one as well)


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## buildingup (Aug 30, 2005)

eerm you know im a straight male? direct yours urges to somebody like minolee she likes it.


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## Decker (Aug 30, 2005)

TheCurse said:
			
		

> 01' autococker.


How many times have I spoken to you about your language!?


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## buildingup (Aug 30, 2005)

Decker said:
			
		

> How many times have I spoken to you about your language!?


Great sense of humour, i would have sniggered and made that joke when i was 12 years old!


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## TheCurse (Aug 30, 2005)

The Monkey Man said:
			
		

> Whoa there big fella, nothing against your marker...
> (I happen to own one as well)


 fuck yea, autocockers rock!  i dont play much anymore, but i used to be a serious paintball fiend.  i think it is the best sport their is.  i played a lot with san diego sherifs and highway patrols, and i used to get to play with navy seals at a training facility in san diego.  me and my buddies would usually beat the seal teams .


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## ZECH (Aug 30, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> I'll never buy a Glock.  They're not reliable.


That is absolutely asinine. I have carried a glock model 22 for over 13 years. I currently have  a model 22c, w/laser and it has never failed to fire. Although I may not recommend one for someone new to guns, it is one of the most reliable and accurate guns you can buy. Our guys went with PA's, .45's several years ago and I opted to keep my Glock.


----------



## ZECH (Aug 30, 2005)

buildingup said:
			
		

> i have never seen a gun before (in real life) and you guys talk of it as a toy, shit this stuff is designed to take a person's life! what are the laws regarding guns in the states? and are you allowed to carry them around with you? (i know laws differ in different states)


Poor boy!


----------



## Decker (Aug 30, 2005)

buildingup said:
			
		

> Great sense of humour, i would have sniggered and made that joke when i was 12 years old!


 
Who rattled your fucking chain, douchebag?


----------



## Decker (Aug 30, 2005)

dg806 said:
			
		

> Poor boy!


hahahahaha


----------



## Witmaster (Aug 30, 2005)

buildingup said:
			
		

> i have never seen a gun before (in real life) and you guys talk of it as a toy, shit this stuff is designed to take a person's life! what are the laws regarding guns in the states? and are you allowed to carry them around with you? (i know laws differ in different states)


Yea, i remember back in 97 when the United Kingdom passed the law that abolished all firearms.  We had people scrambeling to ship thier prized hand guns and collectors items stateside or to trusted friends in europe.


----------



## The Monkey Man (Aug 30, 2005)

Witmaster said:
			
		

> law that abolished all firearms


----------



## Spitfire (Aug 30, 2005)

dg806 said:
			
		

> That is absolutely asinine. I have carried a glock model 22 for over 13 years. I currently have  a model 22c, w/laser and it has never failed to fire. Although I may not recommend one for someone new to guns, it is one of the most reliable and accurate guns you can buy. Our guys went with PA's, .45's several years ago and I opted to keep my Glock.


DG, as much as I hate glocks, I would say they are one the the most reliable polymer pistols ever made, on that I agree, But think a glock is the perfect first time buyer pistol, if anyone was to ever open it up, past field stripping, should have no problem getting it back together and it firing. Most pistols, which I know you know can have one spring in backward and of to the shop it goes. But If i was able to get over the grip angle, and IMO how ugly they are, I would get one.


----------



## ZECH (Aug 30, 2005)

I was referring to the lack of a de-cocker or safety. Alot of people that get in a hurry will pull the gun with their finger in the trigger and it will fire.


----------



## The Monkey Man (Aug 30, 2005)

dg806 said:
			
		

> lack of a de-cocker





 ... H&K?


----------



## Spitfire (Aug 30, 2005)

dg806 said:
			
		

> I was referring to the lack of a de-cocker or safety. Alot of people that get in a hurry will pull the gun with their finger in the trigger and it will fire.


I can see that causing a problem


----------

