# Test/deca/dbol



## jaybartley (Apr 29, 2013)

This will be my second cycle(first cycle was test e 250mg/ml -  1ml twice a week)
I know what my macros will be, but I am not for sure about the numbers on this cycle. 
I want to know what others think about this:

Test e: 250mg twice a week -  week 1-10
deca: 200mg twice a week - week 1 - 10
dbol: 40mg dbol E.D. - week 1 - 4

hcg: 250 iu twice a week 1 - 12

Nolva: 40/40/20/20 week 13-16
Erase: 3 caps E.D. week 13-16

I was also thinking of taking erase while on cycle..would this be a sufficient AI? if so, how much?
Last cycle I started getting gyno half way through..also bloated up..puffy nipples..etc..I dont want that next time.

I am still waiting a couple months before I start this cycle because I finished my first cycle 6 weeks ago. I gained 19 pounds and lost 8. Strength wise, I am almost the same. My gyno is almost completely gone.

I am 19
5'5
171 lbs
13%bf

Any extra suggestions?


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## C3p0 (Apr 29, 2013)

I wouldnt play with too much while still in your teens. What was your first cycle? Maybe just try high test, like 750mg a week? If you put on 20lbs on your last cycle you could probably just do it again for good results. Get on the more powerful stuff when you need it. Just my opinion. Surely someone will disagree.


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## jay_steel (Apr 29, 2013)

19 ooo shit bro... ok first the only 19 year olds i advice to use gear are the genetic monsters, that have a chance to compete big time BB... If you do then i recommend you finding an actual trainer/mentor that can bring you to that point. judging from 13% and 171 you have SOOO much natural gains to buiid that are describable. This is the problem with kids they feel they are entitled to things with out hard work. You have maybe been training for what 2 years? like legit training. Why dont you save the money and hire a NPC guy that does diets and learn how to eat.


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## jaybartley (Apr 29, 2013)

c3p0,
My first cycle was simple
Test E 250mg/ml
1ml sunday,1ml thursday 
10 weeks

pct - nolva week 13-16 40/40/20/20
erase 3/3/3/3 week 13-16

I really want to add another compound to cycle. I believe what you say is somewhat true, but I dont think the numbers are too extreme on this cycle.


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## jaybartley (Apr 29, 2013)

jay_steel, 
I have actually only been lifting a little over a year, I believe my genetics are pretty good..considering January 2012 I weighed 125 lbs..Even if my genetics arent freakish that isnt going to stop me from busting my ass to be as good as I can be.. I am the most determined, hardworking, bb obsessed, motivated person I know..All I think about are my goals, training, and eating..I dont think I was even training correctly until around last summer when I started doing some hardcore research..its been that way ever since. I would love to have a trainer/mentor to be able to help me, but I doubt I can afford that .All I have is all the motivation in the world and a dream..I would NEVER replace hardwork with anything. I am def not one of those guys using gear to try and "get out the easy way." I want to use them to help me achieve my dreams..

I believe my Diet has been on point for a while now..I am open minded to whatever shows to have results with others..(depending on what my current goal is) I am still trying to learn what works best with MY body...and so far I am in love with 3-4 cups of oats in first few meals up to post workout meal..then greens till bed. Roughly 6-7 meals a day ...200+g protein..200+g carbs..I dont like fats..I take animal pack omega as an efa supplement.


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## longworthb (Apr 29, 2013)

If it going to do with anyways u might as well get solid advice so u don't fuck urself up. Erase will work as an ai but I don't believe it to be sufficient. Aromasin at 25mg Ed as well as caber or prami or prolactrone to keep the progesterone sides to a minimum from the deca. Since ur going to be running dbol it has a high chance of causing gyno so make sure u run an ai like aromasin i recommended. Also run it through ur pct at 25-25-12.5-12.5


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## C3p0 (Apr 29, 2013)

No your numbers arent too extreme. And there are plenty of guys who started in their teens. But you probably dont really need AAS at all in all honesty. It takes many years to get bodybuilding right. From the diet, to the training, all that. I mean it literally takes years and years of fine tuning to figure it out. Ive been bodybuilding for 13 years and I still change stuff up based on what I feel works and doesnt work. And those changes like diet changes are going to give you more gains than AAS will. You should only take AAS if you plan on doing some sort of competition and youre already at a very good place naturally. Using gear to speed up the process or cheat gains isnt a great idea. Also as a teen or really anyone under like 25 your body and brain are still developing. Any change in hormones can affect a lot of future development. 

Like Jay Steel said your money is probably better spent on something like a trainer and food. Some guys are massive wealths of knowledge and can put you on a much better track for gains than youre currently on. And thats better than any anabolic. Steroids are only going to make you X percent bigger than you already are. You want to be big as you can possibly be before taking anything. If you MUST take something I would suggest doing what you already did again and taking very long breaks between cycles. Like 4-8 months. And not focusing your energy on the gear but on your training and diet. I think most people on here are going to tell you to wait. Ive only known a few jerk offs who say yea go for it to anyone including teens and those guys are always small waste of life drug addict types. I say wait too. Adding deca at this stage in the game...just not necessary. You might think it is and if you do it you will get bigger but you have to look at the big picture. Health risks, gyno, lower permanent testosterone, etc. And in my experience, and it could be B.S. but ive noticed teens who take AAS get gyno way easier than adults.


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## jaybartley (Apr 29, 2013)

c3p0, 
I research online about diets and training for fun all of the time, but everytime I email someone they want a high amount of money for help...It seems impossible to get help from anyone without paying an amount of money that I wouldnt pay for someone else's advice on my OWN body..I know what has worked so far, and I would rather figure out what works best for me on my own, anyway. I appreciate the advice..I am debating on making my next cycle this or just high test with maybe dbol at the start..I have months to think about it, so I am open minded about this.


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## jaybartley (Apr 29, 2013)

longworthb,
thanks, I will keep this in mind if I run deca. If I dont I will probably not be as worried and keep Erase as AI.


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## longworthb (Apr 29, 2013)

The deca isn't the reason i recommended the ai. Dbol and test is enough to cause high estro. Erase isn't sufficient as an ai for these compounds


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## longworthb (Apr 29, 2013)

The caber prami and prolactrone are all for keeping progesterone down which can cause lactating nips and all kinds of sexual side effects ex limp dick.


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## jaybartley (Apr 29, 2013)

longworthb,
aromasin + caber on cycle
pct - aromasin w nolva
sounds better already


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## C3p0 (Apr 29, 2013)

jaybartley said:


> longworthb,
> aromasin + caber on cycle
> pct - aromasin w nolva
> sounds better already



If you cant find a cost effective trainer it might be a mute point. Training has changed a lot in the past decade. Ten years ago you could go to the gym and there would be some massive bodybuilder dude who did training and hed charge you like 35 dollars a session. Now those trainers dont hardly exist its gym paid guys and youre going to be paying 2-300 dollars a week sometimes it seems. And its not like you can just find some bodybuilder trainer and be like I only want you to show me what to do on back day because I havent figured it out they want like a plan, weeks, months, upfront. 

As far as your cycle my advice would be if youre going to do test + something else only do one thing. So do test + dbol or test + deca. I would say do like 600-700mgs of test alone for a second cycle though. Its obviously your choice. But make sure you know how things like prolactin works in great depth before deca.


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## Don't_fake (Apr 29, 2013)

Aromasin is the best AI it really helps if nips get itchy. I run it at 12.5 Ed. And the caber is for steroids like deca tren and npp. Run the caber at .5 twice a week. And I'm pretty sure u shouldn't run any nolva with a 19nor compound. But someone can chime in and confirm


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## jay_steel (Apr 29, 2013)

you just have to look bro, the ones that advertise are costly, but there are plenty of guys that are willing to run diets for 50-100 a month which would be the cost of your gear. i dropped the dose of my gear to be able to afford a trainer and my results are much better lower dose then it was when it was off the charts. Like i am talking about just by moving a few meals to different hours type stuff helped that much. The knowledge of diet is key. going into to gear is nothing to be taken lightly, right now i am having to take a shit more drugs just to try to have kids right now and ive only been using for 2 years. my sperm count is nothing lol. I have had high cholesterol, high bp, have had to donate blood due to platlete count increasing and ect. I monitor my blood levels pretty good and came to terms with my goals. This is where you have to be honest with your self. Maybe go to a good PH there are SOOO many legal things that are GREAT. I did PH when i was your age and was a monster 185 at 6% and 5 8. Unfortunitly i got burned out and partied for 6 years so now im playing catch up, but just be smart bro... your young and have sooo many years ahead of you to get jacked and huge. baby steps...


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## TrojanMan60563 (Apr 29, 2013)

I don't think Nolvadex will prevent him from getting gyno if from deca. My advice to you is drop the deca. Its very suppressive and I think its what screwed up my hormones in my 20's and they are still not right today in my 30's. So unless you are 100% ok with the idea of being on TRT for the rest of your life I'd ditch deca. The results are not that dramatic anyways. I would say run a test/dbol cycle if you're dead set on doing AAS at your age. 500mg test for 12-16 weeks and 40mg of dbol for the first 4 weeks is a pretty basic and effective cycle.


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## Don't_fake (Apr 29, 2013)

^^^^ good advice


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## jay_steel (Apr 29, 2013)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> I don't think Nolvadex will prevent him from getting gyno if from deca. My advice to you is drop the deca. Its very suppressive and I think its what screwed up my hormones in my 20's and they are still not right today in my 30's. So unless you are 100% ok with the idea of being on TRT for the rest of your life I'd ditch deca. The results are not that dramatic anyways. I would say run a test/dbol cycle if you're dead set on doing AAS at your age. 500mg test for 12-16 weeks and 40mg of dbol for the first 4 weeks is a pretty basic and effective cycle.



if any thing the nolva will increase his side effects from DECA..


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## longworthb (Apr 29, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> if any thing the nolva will increase his side effects from DECA..


He wasn't talking about running Nolva on cycle just for pct. Nolva for pct will be fine bro along with the aromasin. Run the cycle like u have it laid about with aromasin 12.5am 12.5 pm and caber .5 2x a week. Pct like u have it 40-40-20-20 and aromasin 25-25-12.5-12.5. Sounds like a solid cycle. Yes ur 19 but if ur gonna run it anyways better to take the advice and be safe


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## OldSchoolLifter (Apr 29, 2013)

Honestly with such a low dose of deca I doubt prolactin will be an issue. A good ai like formeron or aromasin should suffice while on cycle. 

Nova imo should only be used of a flareup e2 related is started during the cycle, but clomid along side a suicidal ai for pct would be ideal. 

Cycle looks good. But at 19 I'd keep it even simpler then what you have planned. I get we can't talk you out of a cycle so instead. Test and dbol alone is all you need. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


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## JCBourne (Apr 29, 2013)

Nolva and 19-nor compounds do not go together. It will increase your gyno.

You need an AI.

Your deca is too high, a lower dose would be fine.

At 19, don't be surprised if in a few years your T levels are shot. May or may not be able to have kids, may have to get on TRT, many other things. I'm sure you've thought about these risks though.


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## jaybartley (Apr 29, 2013)

I am extremely thankful for this much feedback...wasnt expecting nearly as much as I got.
My next cycle is going to be test and dbol. I probably wont do deca,tren,etc till I'm in the 200s+ off cycle. Thatll probably be end 2014-2015. It is so hard to not go with my ego and just go all out(always is), but it makes sense to be safe in the long run. I refuse to be a burnout..

My next cycle will be
Test E 250mg/ml 1.5mls twice a week, week 1-12 
dbol - 40mg E.D. week 1-4
hcg - 250 iu twice a week, week 1 - 12
aromasin - 12.5 E.D. week 1-12

pct:
nolva 40/40/20/20 week 14-17
aromasin25/25/12.5/12.5 week 14-17


Jay_steel,
I dont party, so I shouldnt have that problem, I just smoke a little ganj with the buddies on the weekends..
Maybe you know some things that I dont, perhaps you could give a little diet advice


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## longworthb (Apr 29, 2013)

JCBourne said:


> Nolva and 19-nor compounds do not go together. It will increase your gyno.
> 
> You need an AI.
> 
> ...


He never mentioned  using Nolva on cycle and I agree with old school clomid for pct with a suicidal ai like aromasin or formeron would be ideal but Nolva will suffice along with aromasin or formeron. Alot of people experience emotional sides on clomid


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## OldSchoolLifter (Apr 29, 2013)

jaybartley said:


> I am extremely thankful for this much feedback...wasnt expecting nearly as much as I got.
> My next cycle is going to be test and dbol. I probably wont do deca,tren,etc till I'm in the 200s+ off cycle. Thatll probably be end 2014-2015. It is so hard to not go with my ego and just go all out(always is), but it makes sense to be safe in the long run. I refuse to be a burnout..
> 
> My next cycle will be
> ...



See Edits In bold ;-) Good Choice btw, Now you're using your head.

Simple to Nothing is all you need right now, but I doubt using nothing is an option for you at this point. So Might as well do it right, Play it safe, and enjoy the growth. I dont care for HCG on cycle, or Off, but to each their own.


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## OldSchoolLifter (Apr 29, 2013)

longworthb said:


> He never mentioned  using Nolva on cycle and I agree with old school clomid for pct with a suicidal ai like aromasin or formeron would be ideal but Nolva will suffice along with aromasin or formeron. Alot of people experience emotional sides on clomid




Most of the emotional sides on clomid, are caused by an influx in e2, and reduction in testosterone. Supplementing with a Good dosed AI like Aromasin ( if you can find real good aromasin ) or Formeron, should counter act a lot of the emotional rebounds associated with it.


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## longworthb (Apr 29, 2013)

Looks solid bro


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## Don't_fake (Apr 29, 2013)

longworthb said:


> He never mentioned  using Nolva on cycle and I agree with old school clomid for pct with a suicidal ai like aromasin or formeron would be ideal but Nolva will suffice along with aromasin or formeron. Alot of people experience emotional sides on clomid



Haha yea the first time I used colmid I was like a bitch my emotions were all over the place


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## JCBourne (Apr 29, 2013)

longworthb said:


> He never mentioned  using Nolva on cycle and I agree with old school clomid for pct with a suicidal ai like aromasin or formeron would be ideal but Nolva will suffice along with aromasin or formeron. Alot of people experience emotional sides on clomid



He's going to shut down HARD coming off that strong of a cycle for a 19 year old, second cycle. An AI of some sort in PCT is highly recommended. That deca is going to shut him down HARD and recovery will be a roller coaster, and to save some gains he needs to do the best possible PCT. I would stretch that PCT to 5 weeks, again this is a hard cycle such a young kid.

EDIT:

Noticed he may/will drop deca, good choice. If you want something like deca try NPP. 

Also second cycle running 750mg of test? Very unwise, more is not better and in a second cycle?

The dude's 19 years old! He could do cycles of 500mg/wk, possibly even lower and still see sick gains. He's boosting his what should be already high T levels, so he doesn't need no crazy amount of gear. This just screws him in the long run and he will have to end up using more down the road when he could of started lower.

As far as HCG, run it. See why here (credit to bigmoe) : Low-dose human chorionic gonadotropin m - PubMed Mobile

I've ran without HCG once, I regret it. It is what most certainly made me become a TRT patient.


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## C3p0 (Apr 29, 2013)

I avoid HCG like the plague. People swear by it but then talk about how they needed gyno surgery after using it. I dont know I would rather my balls come back a few weeks/month/two months slower than take the risks of HCG. HCG can also skyrocket peoples E2. Ive seen all sorts of weird things. But some people love it and feel like it helps them keep all their gains. Some people swear by it. I feel like you can only use it briefly. Like maybe 1-2 weeks in a row at a pretty low dose. Just to sort of kickstart the testicular growth. But if you think about it logically its a double edged sword. Wouldnt your body make less LH when and after you take HCG? So if you take it you get the testicular growth but your LH might be lower. I dont know. Scared of it.


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## JCBourne (Apr 29, 2013)

C3p0 said:


> I avoid HCG like the plague. People swear by it but then talk about how they needed gyno surgery after using it. I dont know I would rather my balls come back a few weeks/month/two months slower than take the risks of HCG. HCG can also skyrocket peoples E2. Ive seen all sorts of weird things. But some people love it and feel like it helps them keep all their gains. Some people swear by it. I feel like you can only use it briefly. Like maybe 1-2 weeks in a row at a pretty low dose. Just to sort of kickstart the testicular growth. But if you think about it logically its a double edged sword. Wouldnt your body make less LH when and after you take HCG? So if you take it you get the testicular growth but your LH might be lower. I dont know. Scared of it.



You can get a spike in e2 because the HCG will boost your test levels, but with proper items on hand one should have no issues. 

HCG is really a personal opinion and each person will have their reason to why or why not to use it. It is up to this lad to figure out what he wants to do, his life, his body, his choice. 

Of course, none of us are professionals or doctors so take what we say with a grain of salt.


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## heavylifting1 (Apr 29, 2013)

I would get an actual anti-estrogen to help with estrogen related sides.


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