# Biggest/Strongest in world w/o roids



## Fashong (May 21, 2005)

Who is the biggest/strongest person in the world without taking steroids??


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## seven11 (May 21, 2005)

hulk hogan


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## Flex (May 21, 2005)

Peter North


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## LexusGS (May 21, 2005)

Dave Batista


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## Mudge (May 22, 2005)

Fashong said:
			
		

> Who is the biggest/strongest person in the world without taking steroids??



Impossible to answer, as there are people who cheat even at tested competitions.

The worlds strongest "tested" bench presser is Shawn Lattimer The worlds biggest person without steroids, will be somewhere over 1000 pounds and basically imobile.

While these questions are sometimes entertaining, I think sometimes people ask in the hopes that they can match the numbers that someone else has done, naturally. Now, considering that some people can walk in off the streets with no training and bench press 405 for reps, and squat 495 for reps, I hope you realize that genetically many people will never hit that naturally no matter their training or diet. Not every man was created equally.


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## seven11 (May 22, 2005)

i think bruce lee was the strongest man without steroids.... but maybe he used them who knows


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## P-funk (May 22, 2005)

Flex said:
			
		

> Peter North




that is such a great answer!


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## Shae (May 22, 2005)

LexusGS said:
			
		

> Dave Batista


Hell yeah 2 that!


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## CRASHMAN (May 22, 2005)

Batista juices more than triple H


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## Doublebase (May 22, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> that is such a great answer!


 Ya that was great.


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## GFR (May 22, 2005)

I doubt anyone could walk in off the street and bench 405 raw for reps. Bill Kazmier said he could bench 300 the first time he went into a gym.
I wonder what Lattimer can bench raw? The most I have witnessed benched raw and natural was 405x5 ( I was told that the guy did 500 in competition), the guy was about 300lbs and lazy as hell....go figure.


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## min0 lee (May 22, 2005)

Flex said:
			
		

> Peter North


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## LAM (May 22, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I doubt anyone could walk in off the street and bench 405 raw for reps. Bill Kazmier said he could bench 300 the first time he went into a gym.
> I wonder what Lattimer can bench raw? The most I have witnessed benched raw and natural was 405x5 ( I was told that the guy did 500 in competition), the guy was about 300lbs and lazy as hell....go figure.



of my buddies older brother hasn't "lifted" regularly in over 20 years, since college.  he can bench 500 raw at will @ a bw of 220 lbs


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## GFR (May 22, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> of my buddies older brother hasn't "lifted" regularly in over 20 years, since college.  he can bench 500 raw at will @ a bw of 220 lbs




Sorry Lam, but 500 raw and natural at only 220,  and not lifting for 20 years regularly is total BS, and a ridiculous statement . 
The ANPPC raw world record is held by Toney Nixon,220 he benched 480.
I don't want to be offensive but posting crap like that is just unforgivable.


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## Mudge (May 22, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I doubt anyone could walk in off the street and bench 405 raw for reps. Bill Kazmier said he could bench 300 the first time he went into a gym.



I nearly had my arm ripped off just arm wrestling 2 islanders who were both in their 40s and didn't train at all. I've seen two different guys and two different gyms years apart walk in and bench 405 for reps with zero training under their belt, the most recent guy I saw was squatting 5 plates for reps, and I never saw him again except that one day. He was there just for fun.

They wont always be 240 pounds and lean like Bruce Lee but that isn't my point of course, my point is these people exist. They have far better bone structure and muscular makeup for exerting greater force of contraction.

Jay Cutler claimed a 315 raw bench his first day in the gym.


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## Mudge (May 22, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Sorry Lam, but 500 raw and natural at only 220,  and not lifting for 20 years regularly is total BS, and a ridiculous statement .
> The ANPPC raw world record is held by Toney Nixon,220 he benched 480.
> I don't want to be offensive but posting crap like that is just unforgivable.



So just because someone didn't set a world record that everyone witnessed makes it a falicious statement? You are a bit closed minded dont you think? I will have a hard time believing a lot of statements people make on the internet, but it doesn't mean its not possible.

Thats like saying elephants dont exist because you've never seen one, or the dinosaurs for that matter.


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## Mudge (May 22, 2005)

seven11 said:
			
		

> i think bruce lee was the strongest man without steroids.... but maybe he used them who knows



By bodyweight we could make an argument, but by total poundage lifted - never.


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## GFR (May 22, 2005)

No offense Mudge, I respect you're knowledge but I do not believe there people walking around who have never lifted who can break the natural raw records.
 There are stories that I believe about the legendary power lifters in history benching 300-315 the first time in a gym. There is no way some dude can walk in a gym for the frst time and beat the best in the world ever  by 100+ lbs.


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## LAM (May 22, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Sorry Lam, but 500 raw and natural at only 220,  and not lifting for 20 years regularly is total BS, and a ridiculous statement .
> The ANPPC raw world record is held by Toney Nixon,220 he benched 480.
> I don't want to be offensive but posting crap like that is just unforgivable.



I benched 567 raw in competition @ 229 lbs, natural. but that was after 16 years of training.

I saw a guy who couldn't have been more than 23 @ 215 lbs do 315 for 15 reps behind the neck military bb press last year.  he was 2 feet away from me.  maybe he was on cycle or not, it was still impressive.

my old PL coach used to warm-up with 405 for 20 reps going ATF on leg days with out even breathing heavy.  he was natural at 280 lbs at 5'8, maybe 14% bf.

I've been training in gyms for over 22 years.  I've seen a lot of shit with my own eyes...I have no reason to make shit up


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## GFR (May 22, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> I benched 567 raw in competition @ 229 lbs, natural. but that was after 16 years of training.
> 
> I saw a guy who couldn't have been more than 23 @ 215 lbs do 315 for 15 reps behind the neck military bb press last year.  he was 2 feet away from me.  maybe he was on cycle or not, it was still impressive.
> 
> ...


List the federation you're bench is on, and I will look it up  Because you would have the world record if that were true.


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## GFR (May 22, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> I benched 567 raw in competition @ 229 lbs, natural. but that was after 16 years of training.
> 
> I saw a guy who couldn't have been more than 23 @ 215 lbs do 315 for 15 reps behind the neck military bb press last year.  he was 2 feet away from me.  maybe he was on cycle or not, it was still impressive.
> 
> ...



You are amazing, you're bench press ( natural at 229, of 567 raw) is only 146 lbs less than the strongest bench presser who has ever lived, Scot Mendelson who was 100 pounds heaver than you when he benched 713 raw and on the juice..so pound for pound you are much stronger, and you don't juice like Scot.


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## Mudge (May 22, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> There are stories that I believe about the legendary power lifters in history benching 300-315 the first time in a gym. There is no way some dude can walk in a gym for the frst time and beat the best in the world ever  by 100+ lbs.



As a white male, no offense but stop looking to white males to be some kind of legendary figures for natural lifting prowess. 300-315 to me is a very impressive rookie lift for the bench press, when I was 11 years old I was putting up 85 pounds, which was not much under my bodyweight, so I am certainly NOT a legendary white lifter.

I have also seen smaller guys claim rookie 300+ presses, Jeff McVicar I believe is one of them, and he is a small guy.

You need to start looking to people who really are strong, sure they might weigh 340 pounds but that isn't my point at all, we aren't talking strength by bodyweight here, we are talking raw strength. Look at James Henderson, sure he weighs about 400 pounds, but I wouldn't doubt that he is natural.

This isn't a race war, but muscle biopsies have proven that certain people (not entire "races") have superior genetics for muscle fiber recruitment, and or hypertrophy.


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## Todd_ (May 22, 2005)

"Biggest/Strongest in world w/o roids "

i aint sure if ronnie colenam hemor-roids i didnt get a chance to check....but i would say him prolly


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## GFR (May 22, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> As a white male, no offense but stop looking to white males to be some kind of legendary figures for natural lifting prowess. 300-315 to me is a very impressive rookie lift for the bench press, when I was 11 years old I was putting up 85 pounds, which was not much under my bodyweight, so I am certainly NOT a legendary white lifter.
> 
> I have also seen smaller guys claim rookie 300+ presses, Jeff McVicar I believe is one of them, and he is a small guy.
> 
> ...



I have no idea where you  came up with a race war ???? That is disturbing to me that you even brought that up . All I am saying is the world record Raw bench presses by natural lifters can not be bested by some guy walking into the gym and benching the raw natural record the first time he lifts. As for amazing lifts by true power lifting Gods, yes there are many who could Bench 300-315 raw naturally the first time they lifted. The idea that some dude could beat the best by 100+ lbs is just a great gym story.
As far as muscle biopsies go I have never heard of one that proves the raw natural bench max is bull sh1t ( that is just quasi science to prove a opinion)...come on no disrespect Mudge but the records are there for a reason, the wonderful gym stories of a guy benching 405 at 235 his first time in a gym are just stories to impress the young.
And by the way I could military press 115 at 11 the first time I tried, without using my legs. That doesn't mean sh1t, there many men much stronger but none who can break the world raw natural BP or any other record the first time they walk in the gym.


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## Mudge (May 22, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I have no idea where you  came up with a race war ???? That is disturbing to me that you even brought that up .



You keep citing white guys, when by far the strongest people I have witnessed with NO training were islanders. Simoté was around 50 years old when he nearly ripped my arm off arm wrestling, and I lifted - he didn't. Simi, his cousin was younger and more athletic appearing, and owned his island's record for fastest time riding a bicycle around it, he likewise was shitfaced strong and was capable of over 400 from what he, and my own arm told me. He hadn't lifted for many years.


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## GFR (May 22, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> You keep citing white guys, when by far the strongest people I have witnessed with NO training were islanders. Simoté was around 50 years old when he nearly ripped my arm off arm wrestling, and I lifted - he didn't. Simi, his cousin was younger and more athletic appearing, and owned his island's record for fastest time riding a bicycle around it, he likewise was shitfaced strong and was capable of over 400 from what he, and my own arm told me. He hadn't lifted for many years.



I listed one "white guy" Bill Kazmire; as for the man who I said benched 405x5 he was black. And almost all the strongest people I have known have been black.


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## Mudge (May 22, 2005)

One of the guys I saw lifting some time ago, who started to go into the gym somewhat regularly until his very small girlfriend dumped him (from what I can guess) was roughly 6'4" and probably over 400 pounds. It was not abnormal to see 455 on the bar with him underneath pumping out reps, and I dont guess for a second he was anything but natural, but obviously the guy was also big as hell to the point where I wonder how often he replaced his shoes from the sheer strain.

Most of the black guys I have seen in the gym lately, have great size and are lean but aren't terribly strong. Certainly that is not always going to be the case. But from what I have seen first hand, Islanders take the cake, big or small.

I would be curious what Anthony Clark put up as a newbie, although the way he speaks I dont know how honest he is, even though he purports to be a Christian.

Henderson is black, works in LE, and is roughly 400 pounds. I have a clip of him putting up 700 raw during a Christian tour.


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## LAM (May 23, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> List the federation you're bench is on, and I will look it up  Because you would have the world record if that were true.



I never said it was in a sanctioned meet.  It was a local PL comp held in West Chester, PA back in 1996.  All of the judges were USAPL competitors.

I was benching 400 lbs when I was 18 at 200 lbs. so to increase my raw bp to 567 by age 26 was only 20 lbs a year.  

you also have to remember that there are top athletes all over the world that never compete in formal competitons.  just because a person is the best in competition, etc. does not mean that they are the best in the world at that sport or event..

that's like saying that Miss America, Miss Universe, etc. is the best looking woman in the world.  when in reality she is only the best out of the ones interested in competing for that title...


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## GFR (May 23, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> I never said it was in a sanctioned meet.  It was a local PL comp held in West Chester, PA back in 1996.  All of the judges were USAPL competitors.
> 
> I was benching 400 lbs when I was 18 at 200 lbs. so to increase my raw bp to 567 by age 26 was only 20 lbs a year.
> 
> ...



The bottom line is you're claims just do not hold water

Like I said in my last post you are the strongest bench presser in the world     
Please do not pollute the minds of the new members with you're fantasy's. The recorded raw natural bench press shows that you are full of it.


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## GFR (May 23, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> One of the guys I saw lifting some time ago, who started to go into the gym somewhat regularly until his very small girlfriend dumped him (from what I can guess) was roughly 6'4" and probably over 400 pounds. It was not abnormal to see 455 on the bar with him underneath pumping out reps, and I dont guess for a second he was anything but natural, but obviously the guy was also big as hell to the point where I wonder how often he replaced his shoes from the sheer strain.
> 
> Most of the black guys I have seen in the gym lately, have great size and are lean but aren't terribly strong. Certainly that is not always going to be the case. But from what I have seen first hand, Islanders take the cake, big or small.
> 
> ...



More racial judgments, and more assumptions with no facts to back them up. Arthur Jones would be proud of you for you're assumptions and lack of true scientific documentation.


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## GFR (May 23, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> So just because someone didn't set a world record that everyone witnessed makes it a falicious statement? You are a bit closed minded dont you think? I will have a hard time believing a lot of statements people make on the internet, but it doesn't mean its not possible.
> 
> Thats like saying elephants dont exist because you've never seen one, or the dinosaurs for that matter.



Not at all I just point out bull crap when I hear it.
 In my gym, when I was a kid this guy came in once  every year or two and benched 405 for sets of five, and then we would not see him for another year or two....I found out later he lifted at another gym in another city. If I were rash I would tell people he only lifted once and could bench 405x5 easy...but then I would be talking about someone I did not know at all. Yes there are some  men who can bench 300 pounds or so when they first workout. Some become great lifters, most fade away into legend....and the legend gets bigger and bigger with each new kid who hears it. Then one day the story becomes about a man who could out lift all the Olympic and power lifters in the world....but sadly he never competed.
The most famous in America is Paul Bunyan.


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## Mudge (May 23, 2005)

Most of the guys I come across who are naturally built, or strong, dont give a shyt about lifting.


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## Mudge (May 23, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> More racial judgments, and more assumptions with no facts to back them up. Arthur Jones would be proud of you for you're assumptions and lack of true scientific documentation.



I haven't seen you post a single study. Look for muscle biopsies and you can find some interesting things. There is a short dissertation on a rare Myostatin mutation that Flex Wheeler possesses. That was the most recent I've come across.


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## LAM (May 23, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> The bottom line is you're claims just do not hold water
> 
> Like I said in my last post you are the strongest bench presser in the world
> Please do not pollute the minds of the new members with you're fantasy's. The recorded raw natural bench press shows that you are full of it.




   ...sounds like the same shit I have heard my whole life from people who juice when the saw that I was stronger than them naturally...


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## maniclion (May 23, 2005)

When I was in High School we had a guy named Tracy who was just naturally strong probably around 250 6'5 and hardly showed up for football practice yet he came into the gym one day and did 400 pounds for reps after working a farm tossing hay bales all day.  Living in Hawaii I see alot of Polynesian men and women that if they lifted would be monsters without juice.  There alot to be said for genetics.


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## Mudge (May 23, 2005)

I agree. Some people are just shitfaced strong. 250 @ 6'5" seems puny though


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## maniclion (May 23, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> I agree. Some people are just shitfaced strong. 250 @ 6'5" seems puny though


The dude was sinewy and he had the biggest hands I've ever seen he used to palm his football helmet.  Texas is full of guys like that, Hawaii too.


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## drew.haynes (May 23, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> The bottom line is you're claims just do not hold water
> 
> Like I said in my last post you are the strongest bench presser in the world
> Please do not pollute the minds of the new members with you're fantasy's. The recorded raw natural bench press shows that you are full of it.



Who are you to disagree when you've probably never even seen him bench? And talking about new members... when you compare say... you're post count to his... you're relatively very new here to be point blank saying he is wrong, when many people on here have seen from experience that LAM has been in this a long time and generally knows his stuff pretty well.


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## GFR (May 23, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> ...sounds like the same shit I have heard my whole life from people who juice when the saw that I was stronger than them naturally...



Nice try bro, but out of the 25 years I lifted, 20 were natural. Like you I also benched 405 at 19 years old at a weight of 206 naturally ....so what, I know a dozen guys who could do that. 
When a clown like you clam's to have competed in a raw natural bench competition with a bench weight 70+ lbs over the raw natural record. Then when you are caught in this stupid Lie you say "oh it wasn't a sanctioned event".....dream on dude....when you lie like that you have to expect to be called out on it......
Only a total dork would claim to be only 146 lbs away from the greatest BP ever raw......and that "again"  was by Scot Mendelson who at 320+ bencher 713raw....and he was on the juice...you claim to be natural, 100lbs lighter than Scott, Please keep the lies believable....

UPDATE:
Scot Mendelson just broke the raw record with a lift of 715....good job Scot
He just missed 725...


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## HardTrainer (May 24, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> I benched 567 raw in competition @ 229 lbs, natural. but that was after 16 years of training.



^^^ then you are the best in the world and smash the world record   you just lost a BIG amount of credibility with that claim

and dont give me excuses becuase if you dont compete in pro events knowing what you did then you are even more stupid.


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## drew.haynes (May 24, 2005)

This is just ridiculous to get all bitchy about this. Who the hell cares what any of these people bench. Seriously, even if LAM is lying, WHO THE HELL cares. What does it matter?


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## ALBOB (May 24, 2005)

Back to the original question.  If we're counting strongest EVER, you'd sure have to throw up the name Paul Anderson.


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## LAM (May 24, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Nice try bro, but out of the 25 years I lifted, 20 were natural. Like you I also benched 405 at 19 years old at a weight of 206 naturally ....so what, I know a dozen guys who could do that.
> When a clown like you clam's to have competed in a raw natural bench competition with a bench weight 70+ lbs over the raw natural record.



this means so much coming from a jackass that recommends long ester steroids for short cycles.  you might want to lean the basics about the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of steroids there Einstein...


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## GFR (May 24, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> this means so much coming from a jackass that recommends long ester steroids for short cycles.  you might want to lean the basics about the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of steroids there Einstein...




People might disagree with my opinions of steroid cycles, but I don't spew out wild boasts like you. Great job Lam on setting the greatest Raw drug free bench press ( 567 at 229) in the history of the sport...........what a tool..


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## ALBOB (May 24, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> It was a local PL comp held in West Chester, PA back in 1996.



Hey, I'm from West Chester.  Where was it at?


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## LAM (May 24, 2005)

ALBOB said:
			
		

> Hey, I'm from West Chester.  Where was it at?



It was at the college.  Hey when you lived in West Chester did you ever train at the 21st Century on Rt.3 & Five Points Rd ?  I used to lift there and at the original McDermott's behind the 7-Eleven on High Street by the college.


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## P-funk (May 24, 2005)

ALBOB said:
			
		

> Back to the original question.  If we're counting strongest EVER, you'd sure have to throw up the name Paul Anderson.




i agree.  paul anderson was insanely strong.


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## Mudge (May 24, 2005)

HardTrainer said:
			
		

> and dont give me excuses becuase if you dont compete in pro events knowing what you did then you are even more stupid.



Pro events? A bench presser might take home a maximum of 5 grand for breaking an all time world record lift, if he were lucky. Right now Gene Rychlak, broke off his ass, owns the world record @ 1005 pounds. He spends more just on traveling, drugs and food than what he would make from any sponsorship or prize.

Stupid? Its called personal choice. Not everyone wants to "go pro" at everything they do, for some people its just fun.


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## HardTrainer (May 24, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> Pro events? A bench presser might take home a maximum of 5 grand for breaking an all time world record lift, if he were lucky. Right now Gene Rychlak, broke off his ass, owns the world record @ 1005 pounds. He spends more just on traveling, drugs and food than what he would make from any sponsorship or prize.
> 
> Stupid? Its called personal choice. Not everyone wants to "go pro" at everything they do, for some people its just fun.



well my friend taking 5 grand for just turning up and breaking the record by 1 pound then another pound at a time (at a different meet) would make LAM a lot of money. 

Then agen turing up doing something you just happen to do as a hobbie seems way to much effort to me   

tell me mudge right now if you could run the 100m in 9.70 seconds because you sprint train as a "hobbie" you would never think oh shit i am better then the best!, maybe i should just turn up at a comp and beat everyone? hummm hard question


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## Mudge (May 24, 2005)

That 5 grand is for the Arnold, a once a year event. 5 grand is a shitload of money to a powerlifter, these guys DONT MAKE MONEY. They aren't "PROS," if they are lucky they get free shirts and thats about it.

Do you know how much time it takes up in someones life to compete at a world level? And how much money? Someone has to want to do it.

I grew up around a couple naturally muscular and strong guys, who were too lazy to lift. It wasn't interesting to them. Just because someone is naturally good at something, doesn't mean they are going to try and compete - and even if they do, look at basketball, or any other sport. Is everyone of them a record breaker? Hell no, lots of BETTER players never ever make it pro, either because they dont have the time or dedication, or because they just dont get picked.

People who powerlift do it because they love it, otherwise they quit or never get into it at all. Mike Miller recently "quit" because of shit talkers, there is no money to keep him there. These guys have jobs like everyone else. Glen Chabot had a shot at beating the raw record and he swore up and down that he would, but he quit after bombing out one year. He also had 2 pec tears.

Some people care about other things in life than chasing being the best at some event. I am not going to be the worlds greatest guitar player, the worlds fastest reader, or the worlds strongest lifter or the worlds smartest, big fucking deal. I just want to enjoy my life.


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## HardTrainer (May 24, 2005)

You dont see what i am saying LAM`s claimed lift was already in a comp so why the fcuk dont he just fcuking turn up to a pro comp and lift a bar and break the world record and go down in history? oh no no to much effort?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## HardTrainer (May 24, 2005)

whatever the point there is no way i belive it.   especially as he puts effort into training and takes roids people dont do that unless they have some intrest in it and if he can bench the world record natural back then, it wont make any bit of differnce to his lifestyle to turn up at a pro contest and lift a bar? as he dosnt have to change his liftstyle as he can already do it and be the best in the world.


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## drew.haynes (May 24, 2005)

So I have a friend here in Tulsa with a Z28... built up a blown 408 in it, with a massive solid roller cam, custom heads, and a 300 shot fogger run off an alternate fuel cell with 110 octane in it. It's run through a TH400 tranny and out a Ford 9" rear. He's not only an amazing driver but he's dynoed over 800 rwhp. His car has over 500lbs stripped off of the stock 3500+ and without a doubt would run at least 8.90s in the quarter...

But you know what? After spending tens of thousands of dollars, having an unbelievably fast car, and being able to drive it like it should be driven, he refuses to take the time to go to the track. There are some fast cars here, but you'd have a lot of trouble finding many that could take him at the strip, and he still does not go. Some people really DO NOT care. Everyone has there own reason, and alot of guys just lift for themselves, not because they want people to know how strong they are.


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## P-funk (May 24, 2005)

I have the biggest cock in the world but I don't do porno and if I post a picture here to prove it everyone will call me an attention whore.


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## HardTrainer (May 24, 2005)

drew.haynes said:
			
		

> So I have a friend here in Tulsa with a Z28... built up a blown 408 in it, with a massive solid roller cam, custom heads, and a 300 shot fogger run off an alternate fuel cell with 110 octane in it. It's run through a TH400 tranny and out a Ford 9" rear. He's not only an amazing driver but he's dynoed over 800 rwhp. His car has over 500lbs stripped off of the stock 3500+ and without a doubt would run at least 8.90s in the quarter...
> 
> But you know what? After spending tens of thousands of dollars, having an unbelievably fast car, and being able to drive it like it should be driven, he refuses to take the time to go to the track. There are some fast cars here, but you'd have a lot of trouble finding many that could take him at the strip, and he still does not go. Some people really DO NOT care. Everyone has there own reason, and alot of guys just lift for themselves, not because they want people to know how strong they are.



good cars = money spent 
best bench press in world = amazing genetics, training etc 

anyone can have that kind of car not every one can bench 567 (or what ever) I DONT CARE WHAT YOU SAY HE IS NOT THE STRONGEST GUY IN THE WORLD AT RAW NATURAL BENCH PRESS


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## HardTrainer (May 24, 2005)

I know loads of guys that have mega moded cars that could do very well but i dont know anyguy that just sprintrained and could run the 100 in 9.7 seconds and didnt bother to turn up at a track and beat maurice green etc. because he couldnt be bother


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## GFR (May 24, 2005)

drew.haynes said:
			
		

> So I have a friend here in Tulsa with a Z28... built up a blown 408 in it, with a massive solid roller cam, custom heads, and a 300 shot fogger run off an alternate fuel cell with 110 octane in it. It's run through a TH400 tranny and out a Ford 9" rear. He's not only an amazing driver but he's dynoed over 800 rwhp. His car has over 500lbs stripped off of the stock 3500+ and without a doubt would run at least 8.90s in the quarter...
> 
> But you know what? After spending tens of thousands of dollars, having an unbelievably fast car, and being able to drive it like it should be driven, he refuses to take the time to go to the track. There are some fast cars here, but you'd have a lot of trouble finding many that could take him at the strip, and he still does not go. Some people really DO NOT care. Everyone has there own reason, and alot of guys just lift for themselves, not because they want people to know how strong they are.



Nice allegory, but if you read the original post Lam said he his friends brother could bench 500 raw at 220. And he hadn't worked out regular in 20 years ( he must be natural since he docent workout) that is a natural raw 220 national record. Then when I call him on that Lam says he benched 567 raw and natural at 229 in a competition. Then again I call him on it ( the raw natural record is 480 at 220-242) and he then tells us " oh it wasn't a sanctioned event". I know we all exaggerate at times but come on this is just pathetic.


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## naturaltan (May 24, 2005)

HardTrainer said:
			
		

> I know loads of guys that have mega moded cars that could do very well but i dont know anyguy that just sprintrained and could run the 100 in 9.7 seconds and didnt bother to turn up at a track and beat maurice green etc. because he couldnt be bother



both very true, but I bet there are a handful that could run as fast as MC, yet don't care to race him because they just don't care about being the best.  HT, I'm with you.  If I could run as fast as MC, I'd be at the next meet putting out the challenge, getting on TV and the rest of it (yup, I'd be a great celebrity attention whore).  But some really don't care.  There is a pool player here who is by far the best I've ever seen.  I'm sure he'd hold his own at any of the world cup billiard tournaments, just prefers to play the game for the enjoyment.  I've played him and I told him, the day I beat you is the day I start heading for the next tournament to hand out lessons - yup, AW to the max.   Hell ... I'm an attention whore without being the best at anything.


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## HardTrainer (May 24, 2005)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> both very true, but I bet there are a handful that could run as fast as MC, yet don't care to race him because they just don't care about being the best.  HT, I'm with you.  If I could run as fast as MC, I'd be at the next meet putting out the challenge, getting on TV and the rest of it (yup, I'd be a great celebrity attention whore).  But some really don't care.  There is a pool player here who is by far the best I've ever seen.  I'm sure he'd hold his own at any of the world cup billiard tournaments, just prefers to play the game for the enjoyment.  I've played him and I told him, the day I beat you is the day I start heading for the next tournament to hand out lessons - yup, AW to the max.   Hell ... I'm an attention whore without being the best at anything.



NT do you really think that LAM broke the WORLD BENCH PRESS RECORD by 80+ lbs, absolutly smashing it.


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## drew.haynes (May 24, 2005)

It's not really any different. In fact, it almost makes less sense for the "car guy" to not hit the track. The fast runner may have zero interet in competing because he never had to work to be able to do what he does... he's just gifted. If you can just naturally do that, a lot of people would just take it for granted and not want to use what they have been gifted with. I say it's more rare for a guy with such a fast car to not show it off. He's put in endless hours of hard work, tons of money, done 90% of the work HIMSELF, and is not LOADED to begin with. He went through serious sacrifices to make his car what it is, whereas a naturally gifted sprinter may have done nothing at all. I think you are more likely to show off what you WORKED HARD for.


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## drew.haynes (May 24, 2005)

HardTrainer said:
			
		

> NT do you really think that LAM broke the WORLD BENCH PRESS RECORD by 80+ lbs, absolutly smashing it.




I would not be surprised if SOMEONE has and we don't know. Why not lam? I mean I don't know that he has or could, but that is not my point. You wouldn't necessarily know.


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## HardTrainer (May 24, 2005)

drew.haynes said:
			
		

> It's not really any different. In fact, it almost makes less sense for the "car guy" to not hit the track. The fast runner may have zero interet in competing because he never had to work to be able to do what he does... he's just gifted. If you can just naturally do that, a lot of people would just take it for granted and not want to use what they have been gifted with. I say it's more rare for a guy with such a fast car to not show it off. He's put in endless hours of hard work, tons of money, done 90% of the work HIMSELF, and is not LOADED to begin with. He went through serious sacrifices to make his car what it is, whereas a naturally gifted sprinter may have done nothing at all. I think you are more likely to show off what you WORKED HARD for.



LAM claimed he worked hard and a long time to get there. 

The prosecution rests


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## GFR (May 24, 2005)

Ok this is all my fault,  I started bashing Lam ( it's just so much fun) but in truth he just exaggerated and thats ok. I will admit that I am a liar as well, I tell women bull sh1t all the time.


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## naturaltan (May 24, 2005)

HardTrainer said:
			
		

> NT do you really think that LAM broke the WORLD BENCH PRESS RECORD by 80+ lbs, absolutly smashing it.



I can't say with any certainty ... but I'm not here to argue,  You don't think he could/did, so that's your opinion.  I had a *BLACK* friend  that was deadly fast on the track in high school.  He was the fastest running back in the province ... probably the country.  Last I heard he went to University and got a degree in sports medicine and is now a doctor ... as I understand it, he never followed through with his gift of speed.  I cannot say that he was world record fast in high school, but with a little effort to train for it, he would be damn close.  But instead, choose education over what could have been his 15 minutes of fame.


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## drew.haynes (May 24, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Ok this is all my fault   I started bashing Lam ( it's just so much fun) but in truth he just exaggerated and thats ok. I will admit that I am a liar as well, I tell women bull sh1t all the time.



Lol. That was funny and random. Anyway, in the end my original point was that none of it matters, and I doubt LAM personally did it, but my later point was that, it can't be just assumed that that is impossible. I mean for all we know there is some guy out on a ranch somewhere who could blow the record away by 100 lbs without ever actually bench pressing, and he may not give a crap. Maybe he just cares about planting his corn or some shit. Haha, you know what I mean... there's no way of knowing.


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## HardTrainer (May 24, 2005)

I dont dislike LAM i think he know a LOT of stuff about all aspects of training but i find it impossible to belive he is the strongest guy in the world and smashed the recored by 80+lbs and trains serious but cant be bothered to compete.

Thats my view you can all belive he is the strongest guy in the world at natural bench press or not, i dont.


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## naturaltan (May 24, 2005)

tell ya all what ... if there were to be another "Contender" reality show, I'd be on it and win because I'm that damn good ...   Mikhal bro, bring it


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## ALBOB (May 24, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> It was at the college.  Hey when you lived in West Chester did you ever train at the 21st Century on Rt.3 & Five Points Rd ?  I used to lift there and at the original McDermott's behind the 7-Eleven on High Street by the college.



That probably didn't even exist when I lived there.  I moved to West Chester from Detroit between my Freshman and Sophomore years in high school.  Right after high school I went straight into the Air Force.  I call West Chester my hometown because all my family still lives there.  We're just North of town.  Take Rt. 100 North until you get to the WaWa and hang a left.


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## Mudge (May 24, 2005)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> I had a *BLACK* friend  that was deadly fast on the track in high school.  He was the fastest running back in the province ... probably the country.  Last I heard he went to University and got a degree in sports medicine and is now a doctor ...



I knew a fast as hell Jewish kid, Aron Friedman. Last I saw him he developed a gut, which doesn't look good on his frame. He was somewhere around 2 full seconds faster than me in the 50 yard dash just to give you an idea. Our next fastest guy who was also good in the mile run with consistent 6 minute times, was still "significantly" slower.

This argument that the world knows of every "great person" is as stupid as saying that nobody can sing unless they have a recording contract because they would have already been discovered.


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## Mudge (May 24, 2005)

drew.haynes said:
			
		

> I say it's more rare for a guy with such a fast car to not show it off. He's put in endless hours of hard work, tons of money, done 90% of the work HIMSELF, and is not LOADED to begin with. He went through serious sacrifices to make his car what it is, whereas a naturally gifted sprinter may have done nothing at all. I think you are more likely to show off what you WORKED HARD for.



My last Camaro was making about 470 crank HP, I took it to the strip once - but it was setup for road courses. I had fun but I certainly wasn't out there all the time, it ran me $175-$250 just to show up at the event, not including gas, driving 160 miles each way, hotel..... and so on. It was FUN though, but I wasn't going to be the worlds greatest


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## maniclion (May 24, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> This argument that the world knows of every "great person" is as stupid as saying that nobody can sing unless they have a recording contract because they would have already been discovered.


Not even have to be the greatest they could have at least gone pro. I know more than half a dozen people who could have excelled at something, but they were too modest or scared to try. My friend Colin is one of the best tattoo artists I've known he did a few for friends, but when offered a chair at a local shop he declined because he was scared he would screw someones up and they'd have a shitty tat for life. There are millions of people like this that have the potential but lack the passion or desire.


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## Fashong (Jun 1, 2005)

Bruce Lee was probally the strongest person for his weight.


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## god hand (Jun 1, 2005)

220? 567? Damn thats like 250% your bodyweight


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## myCATpowerlifts (Jun 1, 2005)

As long as we are bringing everything out into the open....

What is the world record for most benched by a kid in middle school?

If there is one, my friend would break it.
When he was in 8th grade, and was only 14
He benched well over 200 lbs at a weight of about 160.
That was after doing the coaches "workout" for 3-4 months.

THe coaches workout btw, was doing bench, squat, and auxiliary EVERYDAY.


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## GFR (Jun 1, 2005)

myCATpowerlifts said:
			
		

> As long as we are bringing everything out into the open....
> 
> What is the world record for most benched by a kid in middle school?
> 
> ...



Not even close, there are 1000's of 14 year old kids benching over 200lbs.


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## PreMier (Jun 1, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Nice allegory, but if you read the original post Lam said he his friends brother could bench 500 raw at 220. And he hadn't worked out regular in 20 years ( he must be natural since he docent workout) that is a natural raw 220 national record. Then when I call him on that Lam says he benched 567 raw and natural at 229 in a competition. Then again I call him on it ( the raw natural record is 480 at 220-242) and he then tells us " oh it wasn't a sanctioned event". I know we all exaggerate at times but come on this is just pathetic.



Here's something that will blow your mind.  My buddy Kini(Islander/Tongan) benches 405x8(est max of 502) at 5'5" 220lbs and he's natural.. and trains maybe once a month.  He's lazy, plain and simple.. but he's as strong as an ox.  He used to train strongman years back on the island(HI).

The point being it can happen, and it does.  There are naturals out there, that could beat the records.. they just dont care.


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## PreMier (Jun 1, 2005)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> tell ya all what ... if there were to be another "Contender" reality show, I'd be on it and win because I'm that damn good ...   Mikhal bro, bring it



Would you really spar with Tev?


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## GFR (Jun 1, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> Here's something that will blow your mind.  My buddy Kini(Islander/Tongan) benches 405x8(est max of 502) at 5'5" 220lbs and he's natural.. and trains maybe once a month.  He's lazy, plain and simple.. but he's as strong as an ox.  He used to train strongman years back on the island(HI).
> 
> The point being it can happen, and it does.  There are naturals out there, that could beat the records.. they just dont care.



You didn't read the entire dialog did you? He said he did it in a power lifting contest, then when I told him he must have the record by over 87Lbs he changed his story. Yes there people out there who are very strong but his story was just a straight out lie, and when he was found out he suddenly changed his story.


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## PreMier (Jun 1, 2005)

In the years I've been here, I have never known LAM to lie.  He's always been honest and helpful.. I read the whole thread.  He said it was a contest, just not a sanctioned meet.


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## GFR (Jun 1, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> In the years I've been here, I have never known LAM to lie.  He's always been honest and helpful.. I read the whole thread.  He said it was a contest, just not a sanctioned meet.



Look Lam is full of sh1t, and you like him so you're sticking up for him, I can respect that. He said he lifted it in Competition, and later said it wasn't sanctioned when I called him on it. If you really think he benched 567 raw and natural in a competition at 229 just remember the world super heavyweight steroid record at the time was about 660-705 ( depending on the year) by a man 100lbs heaver. Do the math, he lied and thats a fact.


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## PreMier (Jun 1, 2005)

Im not sticking up for him.. he can do that on his own.  But what he's saying isnt impossible, and I have no reason to disagree is all


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## GFR (Jun 1, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> Im not sticking up for him.. he can do that on his own.  But what he's saying isnt impossible, and I have no reason to disagree is all



I just feel as athletes we should respect the men and women who set the records. I have several friends who competed in power lifting and I have to give them credit over some story I hear in the gym or on the web.
So I guess you and I just disagree on Lam and his story; that's cool .


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## myCATpowerlifts (Jun 2, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Not even close, there are 1000's of 14 year old kids benching over 200lbs.



Yea, and most are way over 200 lbs themselves...plus I'm talking about someone who lifted for a couple of months of extreme overtraining...

Whatever, get back to your bickering.


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## GFR (Jun 2, 2005)

myCATpowerlifts said:
			
		

> Yea, and most are way over 200 lbs themselves...plus I'm talking about someone who lifted for a couple of months of extreme overtraining...
> 
> Whatever, get back to your bickering.




What I really want to know is what does your cat bench press??


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## god hand (Jun 2, 2005)

myCATpowerlifts said:
			
		

> As long as we are bringing everything out into the open....
> 
> What is the world record for most benched by a kid in middle school?
> 
> ...



200lbs? At the age of 14! WOW!!!!             You r an idiot my friend!


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## Mudge (Jun 2, 2005)

There is a high schooler who benches in the 700s


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## Mudge (Jun 2, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> He said he lifted it in Competition, and later said it wasn't sanctioned when I called him on it.



It could have been a regular gym meet, or they could have been short a ref. Each organization has rules on what makes a meet legal, and sometimes a ref wont show.


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## GFR (Jun 2, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> There is a high schooler who benches in the 700s



I'm sure he is talking about a Raw 200+, the 700 bench you refer to was with a shirt ( a shirt can give you us to 250+ on your raw bench).

Kris Poppaflex  benched 405Lbs at a bodyweight of 165 which is the IPA record at that weight class. 

The USA RAW Bench Press record for a teenager is 455LBS at 275 and also in the Swh. The 181 teenage record is 410 at 181. Some amazing Raw lifts for teen agers.


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## Mudge (Jun 2, 2005)

Yes, shirted with no arch. A boy pressing that much is sure be benching plenty shirtless.

As for 200, thats impressive for a 14 year old - but no world record. Where I live, if you are 14 and still in middle school, you are a big dumb oaf.


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## naturaltan (Jun 2, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> Would you really spar with Tev?


In a boxing match, you bet.  UFC style, no thanks, I like my joints to be intact. 

I would of course have to get back to the gym for a bit to get the 'eye of the tiger' so to speak, but I've always felt I could hold my own with anyone - still do.


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## PreMier (Jun 4, 2005)

Cool


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