# Rear Delt Rows and Lateral Deltoids



## kiko (Mar 12, 2008)

How much lateral deltoid involvement in Rear Delt Rows? Is it enough to stimulate growth? I'm looking for a pull exercise (DB or Barbell) that hits the lateral delts to substitute upright rows.


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## tomuchgear (Mar 12, 2008)

try face pulls.


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## tomuchgear (Mar 12, 2008)

also rear delt flys if dont correctly they are great. form is key with the rear delt fly.


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## Irons77 (Mar 12, 2008)

kiko said:


> How much lateral deltoid involvement in Rear Delt Rows? Is it enough to stimulate growth? I'm looking for a pull exercise (DB or Barbell) that hits the lateral delts to substitute upright rows.



Shoulders are a push muscle not a pull, bro Try military press DB or BB or DB lateral raises


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## tomuchgear (Mar 13, 2008)

Irons77 said:


> Shoulders are a push muscle not a pull, bro Try military press DB or BB or DB lateral raises



shoulders are a push muscle but rear delts can be stimulated very well by the right fly, and pull exercises.


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## Irons77 (Mar 13, 2008)

tomuchgear said:


> shoulders are a push muscle but rear delts can be stimulated very well by the right fly, and pull exercises.



Your right. I just wanted to make sure he knew that.


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## tomuchgear (Mar 13, 2008)

ah ok also one more thing face pulls look to be the same exercise as the rear delt row. wierd seems the only diffrence is how high you pull the cable.


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## kiko (Mar 13, 2008)

Face pulls sound interesting. I might give it a try.  I prefer compound exercises that can be done with either dumbbells and/or barbells though.


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## UFC rocks (Mar 13, 2008)

yeh rear delts get worked well with pulling exercises, thats why i dont really isolate them. but if i was to do a isolation exercise for them, such as rear delt flys is it best to do it on my pull day, or on my push day with the other delts.


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## tomuchgear (Mar 13, 2008)

i like to do my rear delts on my back day. since the rear delts do seem to get good stimulation from working traps, rhomboids, and the terus. i figure its best to break down my shoulders into sections to avoid over training. also to avoid injury.


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## tomuchgear (Mar 13, 2008)

correction back days sorry. i do two back days to fully work the diffrent parts of my back and add diffrent stimulus to the muscles.


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## Elson (Mar 13, 2008)

wide grip and narrow grip seated rows work best id say


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## Witchblade (Mar 14, 2008)

90% of the exercises mentioned hardly stimulate the lateral delts. No need for isolation though.


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## UFC rocks (Mar 14, 2008)

Witchblade said:


> 90% of the exercises mentioned hardly stimulate the lateral delts. No need for isolation though.



if they dont get worked from those exercises and there is no need to isolate them, then how are they going to grow.


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## Metallibanger (Mar 14, 2008)

UFC rocks said:


> if they dont get worked from those exercises and there is no need to isolate them, then how are they going to grow.


With shoulder presses?


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## Witchblade (Mar 14, 2008)

Metallibanger said:


> With shoulder presses?


Bingo.


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## tomuchgear (Mar 14, 2008)

Witchblade said:


> 90% of the exercises mentioned hardly stimulate the lateral delts. No need for isolation though.



ya know what you are correct i miss read the question. i went of the title of the thread. sorry for the lateral delt press. for isolation side lateral raises.


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## PreMier (Mar 14, 2008)

i do incline db face pulls on pull day. 2 sets 15 reps for my rear delts.

is it necessary? who knows, but i do them


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## oneovercabin (Mar 15, 2008)

Irons77 said:


> Shoulders are a push muscle not a pull, bro Try military press DB or BB or DB lateral raises



Oh really?  You don't think shoulders are incorporated in movements like rows, pullups, etc.?

Sure about that?


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## tomuchgear (Mar 15, 2008)

actualy if you scroll up a little you can see were irons did say that shoulders can be activated by pulls.
Originally Posted by tomuchgear  
shoulders are a push muscle but rear delts can be stimulated very well by the right fly, and pull exercises. 

Your right. I just wanted to make sure he knew that


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## tomuchgear (Mar 15, 2008)

shoulders are a little of both. some parts of your shoulder do respond better to push movements as opposed to pull movements. rear head respond very well to pulling, as does the middle. frontal seems to respond much better to push.


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## Minhkey (Mar 16, 2008)

shoulder presses are so hard for me


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## tomuchgear (Mar 16, 2008)

Minhkey said:


> shoulder presses are so hard for me



you may need to check your form, or reduce the weight you are doing. what problem is it that you are having with the shoulder presses?


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## Biggly (Mar 16, 2008)

I'm a little confused, the lateral delts are the top/side of the shoulder, and no, rear rows aren't really going to hit them, just stretch them a little.

Why do you need to substitute upright rows, seeing as how it's pretty much the ideal exercise from what you say you want? An alternative is simple side raises, where you'll lift more with one arm than two.

Are you trying to avoid working your biceps that day or something?



B.


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## Elson (Mar 16, 2008)

sorry i thought we were talking about posterior delts


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## kiko (Mar 16, 2008)

Biggly said:


> Why do you need to substitute upright rows, seeing as how it's pretty much the ideal exercise from what you say you want? An alternative is simple side raises, where you'll lift more with one arm than two.
> 
> Are you trying to avoid working your biceps that day or something?
> 
> ...



I did upright rows for a while. The exercise just feels "unnatural" to me. For some reason I don't feel comfortable doing them. I do military presses on push day but I would like to hit the lateral delts on pull day too.

Btw, I think Rear Delt Rows work the biceps too.


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## tomuchgear (Mar 17, 2008)

dont worry elson i think a few of us got confused on this thread. upright rows dont feel natural for alot of people. check your grip, and form. you may just have to play with the weight, and grip till it feels more comfortable.


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## Witchblade (Mar 17, 2008)

Or maybe it's shoulder impingement syndrome that feels 'unnatural'.


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## UFC rocks (Mar 17, 2008)

hi guys i also have a question related to shoulders, i know that behind the neck shoulder presses can can bad for the shoulders, because when you start to push the bar up it can hurt your shoulders. but what about pullups to the back of the neck, some people say its also bad for the shoulders, but im not sure because you only go into the position which can be bad for the shoulders, but you dont actually do any pushing, but can pulling your self up so your neck is in front of the bar also be bad, or do people just say it because you are in a awkward position. if they only say it because you go in a awkward position, then what about squats were the bar is behind your neck. 

Are pullups with the neck to the front of the bar safe? 

one more question, pushing exercises mosty work the the front delts, pulling exercises mostly work the rear delts, do the side delts get worked more in pulling exercises or pushing exercises? 

kiko i hope i didnt hijack your thread, sorry.


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## kiko (Mar 17, 2008)

UFC rocks said:


> kiko i hope i didnt hijack your thread, sorry.



No problem. Go ahead.


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## UFC rocks (Mar 18, 2008)

can anyone help with my questions.


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## Biggly (Mar 18, 2008)

> i know that behind the neck shoulder presses can can bad for the shoulders, because when you start to push the bar up it can hurt your shoulders



More to the point the weight is pushing down on your shoulders at an awkward angle - that you can easily hurt yourself resisting it as much as actually lifting is why so many people don't advise that move. It's just totally un-natural, you'd never naturally lift like that so why do so? You're subject your shoulder joints to weird angles under pressure, so resisting or pushing you're likely to do harm.

However you ask if pull-ups behind the neck are OK and for that I'd say sure, as you cannot go further than your own muscles can lift you. The weight, ie your bodyweight, is actually resisting you going too far rather than crushing down on you. It's a perfectly natural movement that fits in with the mechanics of the human body.

The biggest issue I see is bending or straining your neck too low or even striking it with the bar while already flexed but where your shoulders are concerned it shouldn't be a problem. 

Can't remember what your other questions were as they're on the previous page but regarding delts, going by the superset theory of driving nutrients and blood-flow into the area then by all means hit the delts at every angle. I'm not 100% convinced by that theory but it does seem a tad silly to save one angle for another day when you're working them anyway.

I guess it depends on the rest of your workout and your need to avoid working them too close together but the science says you can work a muscle every 48 hours so I wouldn't sweat it too much.


B.


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## UFC rocks (Mar 18, 2008)

thanks for the reply biggly.

the reason i asked was because i was watching a Rocky marathon a the a few days ago, (those movies rock), and in the Rocky 2 here he is training he is doing a barbell shoulders press, but he does a rep to the front, then one to the back off the neck, then one to the front again ect... and then in Rocky 4 were he is training he does pullups in the same way one to the front then one to the back off the neck, then one to the front again ect... I thought that they were a good variation and i enjoyed doing them. 

but its funny how in Rocky 4 he is training in the frezzing cold, but gets into the ring with a great tan, not really realistic, but hey who cares the movies are still great.


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## Minhkey (Mar 18, 2008)

tomuchgear said:


> you may need to check your form, or reduce the weight you are doing. what problem is it that you are having with the shoulder presses?



Whenever I do shoulder presses, my traps seem too press together too much and it doesn't feel right.


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## tomuchgear (Mar 18, 2008)

i would check your grip. there again though i believe it was witchblade that pointed out a shoulder problem. i have a client that cant do the upright row. there is some thing wrong with his back so he cant get the form right. he does face pulls instead. like i said though change your grip that may fix the problem could be form though to. when in doubt i look up the exercise find a vid of some one doing it then memorize the vid so i know i am doing the exercise right. that is just a couple suggestions your call on what to do. hope that helps at least a little to answer your question.


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## tomuchgear (Mar 18, 2008)

also how are you doing the shoulder press? as in a machine, db's, or bb's? are doing them seated?


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## Minhkey (Mar 21, 2008)

barbells, sometimes seated sometimes standing. maybe i should try dumbells.


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## tomuchgear (Mar 21, 2008)

try seated to brace your back, with the dbs.


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## Minhkey (Mar 22, 2008)

Do they all work equally as well?


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## buening (Mar 25, 2008)

I would not recommend vertical rows before incorporating rotator cuff exercises to strengthen that region.  Vertical rows wreak havoc on the rotator cuffs.  Behind the neck presses are not well accepted by most lifters due to their affect on the shoulder girdle. They also make you look down during the lift, which is a no-no in any kind of lift.


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## buening (Mar 25, 2008)

And for working your lateral delts, I'd go with some DB lateral raises. Start with the DBs at your sides and raise them to near parallel with the ground, then lower then till they are about 3" from touching your sides.  Lowering the dumbbells in front of your body till they touch just allows the muscles to rest. Keeping them to your sides and a bit away from the body keeps them under constant tension.

Military or seated presses work more of the anterior delts and not so much the lateral delts. Bent delt rows work the posterior delts.


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