# Started CLA today. What should I expect in the next 4 weeks with it?



## Johnnny (Aug 29, 2004)

Started CLA today. What should I expect in the next 4 weeks with it?

What are the complete benefits of it?

I know that it helps reduce bf% & increase lean mass & is an anti oxidant, but are there any other benefits to it?

I know that it's mainly found in cattle, but as Robert DiMaggio stated in my B vitamin thread, that we don't always get enough of the nutrients we're supposed to from food b/c of all that they put into our foods now a days.


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## redspy (Aug 29, 2004)

Looking at the clinical studies, which are a mixed bag, I wouldn't expect much in the way of fat loss...

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=31870&highlight=CLA*
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=28414&highlight=CLA*
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=20207&highlight=CLA*


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## Johnnny (Aug 29, 2004)

> CLA INHIBITS PROSTATE CANCER GROWTH AND METASTASIS
> 
> Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) has been shown in physiological concentrations (i.e. low doses) to inhibit proliferation of human tumor cell lines including glioblastoma, melanoma, colorectal, lung, breast,prostatic carcinomaand leukemia.



So I'm guessing that CLA is also good for preventing cancers then.

Pretty good.

Well I guess I'll just have to wait a few weeks & see how it helps me.


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## Arnold (Aug 29, 2004)

http://www.ironmagazine.com/review9.html
http://www.ironmagazine.com/review49.html


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## Johnnny (Aug 29, 2004)

Robert DiMaggio

Thanks for the links.

Do you think CLA would be bad for someone who has had a stable thyroid for about 5 months on synthroids?

I've been told it wouldn't interfear seeing how my thyroid is normal.

Also CLA is an Omega-6? I was told that Omega-3 is the only good Omega EFA for you as 6 & 9 isn't that good for you?

Thanks.


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## rrgg (Aug 29, 2004)

I'm no expert on thyroid, but I think that's separate from how CLA works.  

Also, it doesn't make you burn more fat on its own like a thermogenic.  I also believe that's part of the reason some people think CLA doesn't work (they're used to taking ECA).  It's more for minimizing fat gains (especially during bulking).   Best reports come from high doses of 8g or up to 12g per day  -- by "high dose" I mean "expensive."  I liked it with anarchy stack.  YMMV


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## LAM (Aug 29, 2004)

CLA is a great supplement but many people expect it to have "fat burning" effects. CLA does not work like that, it is used to supress lipoprotein lipase (LPL) which is the gate keeper to fat storage in adipocytes...  

IMO...CLA is best used when there is a caloric excess to help limit increases in body fat...You also need to consume CLA with meals that contain carbohydrates or it will be oxidized...

it takes months of use at 6 grams a day before it "kicks in"...I love the stuff


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## LAM (Aug 29, 2004)

redspy said:
			
		

> I wouldn't expect much in the way of fat loss...



CLA is used to keep fat cells from increasing in size, it has no effect on the mobilization or oxidation of FFA's...


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## rrgg (Aug 29, 2004)

I don't agree that it takes some time to kick in, definitely not 6 months.  What's your reasoning?


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## LAM (Aug 29, 2004)

rrgg said:
			
		

> I don't agree that it takes some time to kick in, definitely not 6 months.  What's your reasoning?



not my reasoning, what medical study has shown...who said anything about 6 months ?


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## rrgg (Aug 30, 2004)

Ouch, sorry.  I must have misread your post. "Months at 6 grams" becomes "6 months" when you're tired.   

It my experience, CLA doesn't take months to kick in.  Using the same dieting and cardio, I noticed more fat loss over 5-6 weeks of using CLA than usual.


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## Johnnny (Aug 30, 2004)

rrgg



> I'm no expert on thyroid, but I think that's separate from how CLA works.
> 
> Also, it doesn't make you burn more fat on its own like a thermogenic. I also believe that's part of the reason some people think CLA doesn't work (they're used to taking ECA). It's more for minimizing fat gains (especially during bulking). Best reports come from high doses of 8g or up to 12g per day -- by "high dose" I mean "expensive." I liked it with anarchy stack. YMMV



I was going to say that I don't think it directly attacks the thyroid as ephedrine/ephedra & thermogenics do.

It's an EFA & an anti-oxidant if I'm not mistaken, not a thermogenic or ephedrine/ephedra or thermogenic.

I also take Omega 3 from fish oils & flax seed oil & they work in a similar manner to CLA & they don't attack the thyroid in fact they are recommended for ppl who are being treated for a thyroid problem even if their thyroid is stable.

I've also read that CLA is recommended as well.

LAM



> CLA is a great supplement but many people expect it to have "fat burning" effects. CLA does not work like that, it is used to supress lipoprotein lipase (LPL) which is the gate keeper to fat storage in adipocytes...
> 
> IMO...CLA is best used when there is a caloric excess to help limit increases in body fat...You also need to consume CLA with meals that contain carbohydrates or it will be oxidized...
> 
> it takes months of use at 6 grams a day before it "kicks in"...I love the stuff



Most supplements such as these are better taken with food/carbs that is true.

But it takes literally that long? Half a year to work?

I wonder why so long?

Thanks for your input guys.


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## rrgg (Aug 30, 2004)

Johnnny - I don't see how that's at odds with what I said.  Maybe you didn't mean to quote me in your response.


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## lulu (Aug 30, 2004)

It was said to take months to kick in, not 6 months. CLA is not a fatburner. It won't make large fat cells get smaller, but it will help keep small fat cells from getting bigger.


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## topolo (Aug 30, 2004)

In 4 weeks I would expect you to have less money than you started with..........that's what I think you will see.


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## rrgg (Aug 30, 2004)

Yes topolo, you'll have less money.  That's the downside.  CLA is expensive at an effective dose, but it definitely worked.  If cheaper I'd use it more often.  ... having said that, I don't think "value" was the question posed here anyway.


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## redspy (Aug 30, 2004)

LAM said:
			
		

> CLA is used to keep fat cells from increasing in size, it has no effect on the mobilization or oxidation of FFA's...


 If you look around at some of the health claims/qualified health claims that's not the message consumers get.  I have used it at 8g+ per day (I have access to free product) and took it while under maintenance calories and didn't notice any difference to not supplementing and being under maintenance.  May be it works for some people, but personally I don't bother taking it anymore.


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## redspy (Aug 30, 2004)

Here's another viewpoint on CLA, I'm not entirely convinced as this guy has some commercial interests in non supplemented CLA......

  CLA: The             Secret Weapon in the Battle Against Cancer                                                       *[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]By                Dr. Joseph Mercola
                      with Rachael Droege[/font]*

Most people are now familiar with the benefits of omega-3 fatty acids, but there is another fatty acid that is making its way to the top of the list in terms of health potential. This fatty acid is CLA, or conjugated linoleic acid, and it has become widely popular in the form of expensive dietary supplements because of its anti-cancer and fat-fighting properties. In fact, CLA is so potent a cancer fighter that animal studies show as little as 0.5 percent CLA in the diet could reduce tumors by over 50 percent. Along with being a cancer fighter, CLA helps the body to rid itself of fat.

*Why You Don't Want CLA Supplements
*

I'll discuss more about the benefits of this compound below, but I first want to make one thing clear. I do not recommend that you take CLA supplements of any form. As with all nutrients, it is better to get them from food than from synthetic supplements. Natural CLA found in foods is far superior to a man-made version in pill form--not to mention that CLA supplements are outrageously expensive. 
 

Further, studies                have shown the type of CLA used in supplements has been associated              with an array of side effects, which include: 





Promoting insulin resistance
Raising glucose levels
Reducing HDL (good cholesterol)
Stomach upset




*Natural CLA in Grass-Fed Animal Foods*

Your body does not make CLA, so you may be wondering how you can get natural CLA in your diet. Well there is good news: animal products like meat and dairy from grass-fed animals are rich in natural and healthy CLA. So simply increasing your intake of grass-fed meat products will increase your intake of this important fatty acid. 

There is an important distinction to make here, though. Many Americans do not get enough CLA for two reasons. First, Americans as a whole have wrongly shunned many animal products when the "fear of fat" mentality swept across the nation. These animal products were contributing many health-promoting qualities to our health and CLA was just one of them. Second, most animals are no longer raised on their natural diet, grass, and instead are being raised primarily in factory farms where they are artificially fattened on grains. If you simply start eating more commercially raised meat that is in most grocery stores, your health will not benefit because these animals were not fed a healthy diet. Grass-fed animals, on the other hand, have from three                to five times more CLA than grain-fed animals. 

So if you're looking to increase your CLA, the best way is through grass-fed animal products. This includes not only grass-fed                beef but also dairy products from grass-fed cows like raw                milk, raw butter and raw milk cheese.

*Why You Want CLA in Your Diet
*

As I mentioned above, CLA is a potent cancer-fighting substance. Animal studies have shown it could reduce the risk of numerous types of cancers including breast, prostate, colorectal, lung, skin and stomach. 
 

Another major effect of CLA is its role in body fat. A study published              in the June                2004 American Journal of Clinical Nutrition said animal studies have shown that CLA inhibits the formation of building fat. Not only does it appear to reduce body fat, it does so while preserving muscle tissue. This is why it is so widely sold as a dietary supplement to body builders and dieters alike, but, as I mentioned above, the only safe way to increase CLA in your diet is from grass-fed animal products--not from supplements. 

But that is not all. As Mary                Shoman writes, studies suggest that CLA also: 



Increases metabolic rate 
Decreases abdominal fat 
Enhances muscle growth 
Lowers cholesterol and triglycerides 
Lowers insulin resistance 
Reduces food-induced allergic reactions 
Enhances immune system
*Where Can You Get Healthy, Natural CLA?*

As I have mentioned, it is important to understand that once cows, or other grass-eating animals, are fed grains, they stop producing CLA. So the ideal source to get CLA naturally, and I might add at no charge or risk, is to get it from 100 percent, exclusively grass-fed animals. The least expensive way to obtain grass-fed beef would be to find a local farmer that is producing it and purchase it from him directly to avoid high shipping fees. We also carry 100                percent grass-fed beef on our site. 

As for grass-fed dairy products, you can search your local health food stores for these types of items, as many carry butter, cheese and milk from grass-fed cows. However, if you want the ideal source, you should seek out raw dairy from grass-fed cows. You can find raw, grass-fed cheese on this site, and we will have raw milk in the months to come, but until then if you are unable to find a local dairy farmer who will cooperate with you please try this link: http://www.realmilk.com/where.html.


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## LAM (Aug 30, 2004)

rrgg said:
			
		

> Yes topolo, you'll have less money.  That's the downside.  CLA is expensive at an effective dose, but it definitely worked.  If cheaper I'd use it more often.  ... having said that, I don't think "value" was the question posed here anyway.



how is CLA expensive ? @ $17/month, far from expensive

http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=35


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## LAM (Aug 30, 2004)

redspy said:
			
		

> If you look around at some of the health claims/qualified health claims that's not the message consumers get.  I have used it at 8g+ per day (I have access to free product) and took it while under maintenance calories and didn't notice any difference to not supplementing and being under maintenance.  May be it works for some people, but personally I don't bother taking it anymore.



like I stated CLA is best used when there is a caloric excess. to keep fat gains to a minimum while bulking...do some research on CLA and LPL

what people don't understand is that all supplements don't "work" for everybody.  just like 30% of the bb population are creatine non-responders when it comes to traditional creatine monohydrate, the effective dose of 6 grams of CLA a day may not supress LPL to the same degree in one person as it does another.  that doesn not mean that CLA, doesn't work...


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## rrgg (Aug 30, 2004)

> how is CLA expensive ? @ $17/month, far from expensive


I should have qualified my statement.  

After reading various firsthand accounts of what worked and didn't, I used 12g+ per day.  I also used Tonalin brand, even though I'm not sure that matters.  30 days of that comes out to $58.   The NOW product might be just as good, so maybe I'll try it next.  My dose would require 2 bottles which is only $34.  Thanks.


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## redspy (Aug 30, 2004)

LAM said:
			
		

> like I stated CLA is best used when there is a caloric excess. to keep fat gains to a minimum while bulking...do some research on CLA and LPL


 I've done lots of research thanks.  Two of my friends are PhDs and work closely with R&D departments on CLA - they have little confidence at this point, although time will tell with lots of new research coming out.  I've tried it with various tactics and nothing has worked for me.  I'm not representative of the whole population of course and results will vary. 



			
				LAM said:
			
		

> what people don't understand is that all supplements don't "work" for everybody. just like 30% of the bb population are creatine non-responders when it comes to traditional creatine monohydrate, the effective dose of 6 grams of CLA a day may not supress LPL to the same degree in one person as it does another. that doesn not mean that CLA, doesn't work...


 Again, I didn't say CLA is completely ineffective for everyone.  I stated that it didn't work for me.  I could take 20g of CLA ED for free but based on my personal experience it's not worth the time.  There are success stories out there of course, but the majority of feedback I've seen isn't that positive.  Some of that feedback could be a result of how it's promoted out there by less scrupulous supplement companies.


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## rrgg (Aug 30, 2004)

> Some of that feedback could be a result of how it's promoted out there by less scrupulous supplement companies.



I was actually very skeptical of CLA for years for those same reasons.  I finally tried it because of a lot of feedback on the cuttingedge board. 



> I could take 20g of CLA ED for free but based on my personal experience it's not worth the time.



How much time does it take to swallow a few pills?  LOL!


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## LAM (Aug 30, 2004)

redspy said:
			
		

> I've done lots of research thanks.



funny seems to me then if you had actually done lots of research then you would know that CLA is best used by bodybuilders as a nutrient partitioning agent when there is a caloric excess and not for fat loss...


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## redspy (Aug 30, 2004)

LAM said:
			
		

> funny seems to me then if you had actually done lots of research then you would know that CLA is best used by bodybuilders as a nutrient partitioning agent when there is a caloric excess and not for fat loss...


 Most of the clinicals I've seen haven't used "caloric excess" as one of the criteria so why should I arrive at that conclusion?  Because you say so?


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## rrgg (Aug 30, 2004)

Don't make me stop this car!


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## redspy (Aug 30, 2004)

rrgg said:
			
		

> How much time does it take to swallow a few pills?  LOL!


 It's not a matter of time, it's a matter of faith in the product.  Like a lot of others on this board I take variety of pills with meals (e.g. a multi, multi mineral, fish oil, acidophilus, glucosamine, flax etc) and I don't want to take too many more.


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## Johnnny (Aug 30, 2004)

For the brand I bought it costs $15 for 45 capsules & you have to take 2 a day. So that maybe $30/month easily for 2 bottles a month.


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## rrgg (Aug 30, 2004)

> For the brand I bought it costs $15 for 45 capsules & you have to take 2 a day. So that maybe $30/month easily for 2 bottles a month.



I assume this is for 1g per softgel, and 2g per day is not enough.  

Besides, you're not comparing prices properly.  I was talking about the cost of 12g per day at $58 per month.  If you only want 2g per day, then my tonalin brand CLA is $9.60 per month.

Edited to add: 

For NOW brand, that's about $5-6 per month.


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## Johnnny (Aug 30, 2004)

My brand contains 800mg of CLA in each capsule & you are required to take 2 a day.


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## topolo (Aug 30, 2004)

rrgg said:
			
		

> Yes topolo, you'll have less money.  That's the downside.  CLA is expensive at an effective dose, but it definitely worked.  If cheaper I'd use it more often.  ... having said that, I don't think "value" was the question posed here anyway.



I'm not saying anything about value.............I am saying less money is what should be expected.............period.


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## rrgg (Aug 31, 2004)

> My brand contains 800mg of CLA in each capsule & you are required to take 2 a day.


My shampoo instructions read, "Wash. Rinse. Repeat."

1.6g of CLA per day is not enough despite the label.


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## Johnnny (Aug 31, 2004)

Why isn't it enough?


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## LAM (Aug 31, 2004)

the effective dose in medical studies with postive results are with 6 grams daily...


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## redspy (Aug 31, 2004)

Here's a study using obese subjects running varying doses.... I doubt most of you fall into this category 



> [font=verdana, arial, helvetica]  J Nutr 2000 Dec;130(12):2943-8 Related Articles, Links
> 
> 
> Conjugated linoleic acid reduces body fat mass in overweight and obese humans.
> ...


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## Johnnny (Aug 31, 2004)

So 1600mg a day isn't enough?

Also I've read the links that Robert DiMaggio supplied for the CLA on what it does & so on.

It mentions thermogenesis.

Is this the same thermogenesis that the Ephedrine/ephedra, the thermogenic fat burners & the ECA provide by directly attacking one's thyroid by dramactically increasing one's thyroid levels?

From what I understand it does not.


My doctor & pharmacist both told me that now that my thyroid is stable & has been stable for 4 months on synthroid, that CLA wouldn't affect me they way the ECA stack & thermogenic fat burners would.

It would be much healthier.


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## Johnnny (Sep 6, 2004)

Bad news, I think I have to stop my CLA.

It makes me feel like I'm in a sauna most of the time. 

I guess this is normal & it's the thermogenesis properties kicking in?

Or could I be taking too much? One capsule holds 800mg.

Some ppl say it's not enough, but maybe it's enough for one person & too much for someone else?

Yesterday my face felt like I had it in the oven & I had to put cold compresses on to cool down.

This is how I was feeling when I was on the ephedrine/ephedra & other thermogenic fat burners containing Ma Huang & caffeine.

I don't like feeling this way, & I get nervous b/c of my thyroid even if it's stable. I'm told CLA has no interaction with your thyroid, but I don't like feeling that way.

Any ideas?


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## topolo (Sep 6, 2004)

try dnp


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## Johnnny (Sep 6, 2004)

topolo

What's DNP?

Thanks


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## Johnnny (Sep 6, 2004)

Topolo

You're from Toronto to?

I wish I was back there as I've been stuck in Montreal the lst 14yrs.

I plan on coming back.

Do you go to Strictly Fitness in the north end of Toronto?

It's Dufferin near Steeles & where Allen RD. ends.

It's a pretty good gym, I met Markus Rhul there when I was visiting relatives in 2000 I believe when he won the Toronto.


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## Pirate! (Sep 6, 2004)

Johnnny said:
			
		

> Bad news, I think I have to stop my CLA.
> 
> It makes me feel like I'm in a sauna most of the time.
> 
> I guess this is normal & it's the thermogenesis properties kicking in?


 I think it is a misattribution. There must be something else causing it--perhaps thryoid problems. CLA is just a fat, and it doesn't have thermogenic properites. Is there something else in your CLA supplement?


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## Johnnny (Sep 6, 2004)

PirateFromHell



> I think it is a misattribution. There must be something else causing it--perhaps thryoid problems. CLA is just a fat, and it doesn't have thermogenic properites. Is there something else in your CLA supplement?



My thyroid is normal & has been normal for the last 4 months on my current dose of syntthroid.

I've only noticed this since I started CLA late last week.

As for anything else in the CLA it has gelatin, glycerin, caramel, & purified water.


http://www.ironmagazine.com/review9.html
http://www.ironmagazine.com/review49.html

Description:
Linoleic acid (LA) is a naturally occurring fatty acid found predominantly in beef and dairy products. LA is one of the two essential fatty acids (the other is linolenic acid). Linoleic acid is an omega-6 fatty acid, meaning that it is unsaturated, with a double bond occurring at the sixth carbon atom from the omega end of the molecule. Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) is an isomer of LA - which refers to a slight rearrangement of the molecular structure (conjugation) - resulting in a fatty acid with altered chemical functions. The rearrangement in this case is a conjugated double bond occurring at carbons 10 and 12 or at carbons 9 and 11. Linoleic acid is found in the diet in vegetable oils, whereas the conjugated variety, CLA, is found primarily in meat and dairy products. The form of CLA found most commonly in dietary supplements is manufactured from vegetable oils such as sunflower oil or safflower oil. One of the leading brands of CLA (TonalinTM), and the one on which the majority of studies has been conducted, is derived from safflower oil.

Claims:


Builds muscle 
Burns fat 
Increases thermogenesis (calorie expenditure)   
Fights cancer 
Antioxidant


This part here is from the first link & it says that it increases thermogenesis.

This is what I'm concerned about as that would explain my hot flashes.


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## Johnnny (Sep 7, 2004)

I guess nobody has any more input in this regard?


Well just to let you guys know that I've stopped the CLA 2 days ago & the feeling of me being in a sauna is gone.

I don't feel hot any more.

So it was the CLA as that's exactly when the feeling of being in a sauna started & now that feeling is gone.

It increases thermogenesis to help with calorie expenditure which means it increases your metabolism which isn't the best thing all the time especially for someone with a thyroid condition even if their thyroid is normal.


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## LAM (Sep 7, 2004)

despite what that information says that you posted CLA does not directly increase thermogensis...


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## rrgg (Sep 7, 2004)

I don't think it could cause the side effect you experienced either.  It's probably a coincidence.


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## Johnnny (Sep 7, 2004)

Actually I'm supplying the links that Robert DiMaggio gave me on the first page.

I'm serious, The feeling of being in a sauna started exactly when I started the CLA, & now that I've stopped the CLA, that horrible feeling stopped along with it.

I haven't had hot flashes like that since 2000 when my thyroid was hyper & we didn't know about it.

I'm sure it's the CLA.


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## LiftHardGainBig (Sep 7, 2004)

Johnny,  not tryin to make you sound stupid, but 800mg = .8 gm.   That's even less than what rrgg estimated so it'd be even more expensive.   Also if you read the entire post, you'll see that they are talking about taking a lot more than 2 gm/day...


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## rrgg (Sep 7, 2004)

Maybe he has some legitimate problem with CLA.  Sometimes people are just allergic to stuff, and when it comes down to it, this product is (practically?) food.


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## Johnnny (Sep 7, 2004)

rrgg



> Maybe he has some legitimate problem with CLA.  Sometimes people are
> just allergic to stuff, and when it comes down to it, this product is
> (practically?) food.



Well that's possible.

Every individual is different & has different reactions to supplements & so on.

One thing is for sure, I don't have those symptoms when I eat red meat as I eat red meat 3 times a day.


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## rrgg (Sep 7, 2004)

I don't believe the CLA is causing this.  I was mostly just saying there's an offchance...


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## Tha Don (Sep 15, 2004)

LAM said:
			
		

> CLA is a great supplement but many people expect it to have "fat burning" effects. CLA does not work like that, it is used to supress lipoprotein lipase (LPL) which is the gate keeper to fat storage in adipocytes...
> 
> IMO...CLA is best used when there is a caloric excess to help limit increases in body fat...You also need to consume CLA with meals that contain carbohydrates or it will be oxidized...
> 
> it takes months of use at 6 grams a day before it "kicks in"...I love the stuff



so it would be a better idea to use CLA post cut? when begining to raise the cals back up for a bulk in an attempt to keep fat gains minimal? rather than actually during a cutting phase with thermos?

if thats the case i'll come off CLA and restart it after my cut in a months time


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## Johnnny (Sep 15, 2004)

Just to let you guys know that it's been over a week since I stopped taking the CLA & I never have hot flashes while my thyroid gland is normal & has been.


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## LAM (Sep 15, 2004)

IMO...it's definetly best used when there is a caloric excess


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## Tha Don (Sep 15, 2004)

LAM said:
			
		

> IMO...it's definetly best used when there is a caloric excess



okay, i'll restart taking CLA when i raise my cals up again   

thanks LAM


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