# 2nd "havoc" cycle... check it out..



## bones33 (Jul 23, 2008)

This is my second cycle, however instead of Havoc, i'm taking Epiotren. Which is a mix of espistane and "Tren"... I started Monday after pre-loading a week with cycle support...

I'm taking 3 per day.. Started at 172lbs.. My bench starting on the cycle was I could get 205 about 5 times. I'll keep you guys updated incase anyone was interested in trying it.


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## workingatit43 (Jul 23, 2008)

Yes please keep us updated there seems to be alot of intrest as of late on the Epi/tren products


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## zombul (Jul 23, 2008)

This should be a fun cycle I want to know when you first start seing some gains as well.Keep us updated for sure.


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## jday (Jul 23, 2008)

Hell yeah!! Keep us posted!!! Highly considering doing that next!!


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## bones33 (Jul 24, 2008)

Definatly... Today's only day 4, and workingatit actually told me that people on their second "Havoc" cycle don't typically see as good as results, so i'll definatly let you guys know.

Also: I have some liquid nolva on hand incase i start seeing some results I dont want.


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## workingatit43 (Jul 24, 2008)

bones33 said:


> Definatly... Today's only day 4, and workingatit actually told me that people on their second "Havoc" cycle don't typically see as good as results, so i'll definatly let you guys know.
> 
> Also: I have some liquid nolva on hand incase i start seeing some results I dont want.



Yes if your running Havoc back to back normally the gains will not be as great but keep us informed


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## lucifuge (Jul 24, 2008)

good deal,
I've been thinking about running havoc/epi...
I'll be watching


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## Merkaba (Jul 25, 2008)

How old are you?  
benching 205...

I don't understand these hardcore supps for obviously mild physiques.  Oh well to each his own I wish you luck.


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## bones33 (Jul 25, 2008)

21 years old... I weight 172lbs.. and about 5'10..


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## bones33 (Jul 29, 2008)

A week and one day ago started... Think I might feel a bit increased aggression, and arms look a bit fuller to me. Could be in my head, since its only been a week. I'm lifting back again today, so i'll fill you guys in on whether the strength and endurance changed at all. I'm not expecting too much as its only been one week though.


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## workingatit43 (Jul 29, 2008)

bones33 said:


> A week and one day ago started... Think I might feel a bit increased aggression, and arms look a bit fuller to me. Could be in my head, since its only been a week. I'm lifting back again today, so i'll fill you guys in on whether the strength and endurance changed at all. I'm not expecting too much as its only been one week though.



Gains should start to kick in after 2 weeks give or take a couple of days keep hittingit hard bro


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## jday (Jul 30, 2008)

Keep us posted, I just ordered mine last night. Hopefully it will arrive b4 the weekend.


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## bones33 (Aug 1, 2008)

Almost two weeks on... I've gained 6lbs the scale reads, and for some reason it seems like i'm getting more sore, longer. But who knows.. I feel like my strength went up, I really couldnt test it on the bench because i got a shooting sensation up my arm (from elbow to wrist) and almost dropped the weight on me(never had this happen before), so i stuck to dumbells that day, and the pain was only there when i used a BARBELL, but not dumbells, maybe was the angle my arms were...

At any rate I feel stronger thus far, and hopefully next week can actually do a flat barbell bench to tell if it really did go up.


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## zombul (Aug 1, 2008)

Muscle soreness? Try some taurine and that may help with the cramps some.Keep drinking alot of water too.


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## workingatit43 (Aug 1, 2008)

Taurine may help and increase the water but if you get another shooting pain like that have it checked out bro


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## bones33 (Aug 1, 2008)

Just got back from the gym... felt insanely stronger.. gained roughly 5lbs. not bad really, i think the pain was from throwin a baseball around with a friend and doing some pitching i got discomfort so i iced it..

I felt great though in the gym, the only thing i've notice was increased heart beat or possibly palpitations, otherwise great thusfar.. I'll post more monday or so when i lift chest again.


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## workingatit43 (Aug 1, 2008)

bones33 said:


> Just got back from the gym... felt insanely stronger.. gained roughly 5lbs. not bad really, i think the pain was from throwin a baseball around with a friend and doing some pitching i got discomfort so i iced it..
> 
> I felt great though in the gym, the only thing i've notice was increased heart beat or possibly palpitations, otherwise great thusfar.. I'll post more monday or so when i lift chest again.




Try to get you blood pressure checked and if you keep getting increased heart beat that is not a good thing have it checked. I hope it all works out for you bro


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## jday (Aug 10, 2008)

whats new with the cycle??


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## zombul (Aug 11, 2008)

Updates.


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## bones33 (Aug 11, 2008)

Hey guys sorry, got real busy with getting ready to transition to Penn State Main.. ANYYYYWAYYY... Did not gain much weight at all to be honest, about 175ish now.. However, I must say I do feel much stronger. 

Starting the cycle I was doing 185, STRUGGLING to get the 10th rep. Now, as of Wednesday, I pumped out 13 reps like cake. Tomorrow I will be lifting Chest and Back together, so I'll give a more indepth report, as well as lifting increase in pounds.

Also, for some reason i feel as if I'm retaining weight around the abdominal area, althought my weight has not really changed.. Maybe water retention???


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## workingatit43 (Aug 11, 2008)

bones33 said:


> Hey guys sorry, got real busy with getting ready to transition to Penn State Main.. ANYYYYWAYYY... Did not gain much weight at all to be honest, about 175ish now.. However, I must say I do feel much stronger.
> 
> Starting the cycle I was doing 185, STRUGGLING to get the 10th rep. Now, as of Wednesday, I pumped out 13 reps like cake. Tomorrow I will be lifting Chest and Back together, so I'll give a more indepth report, as well as lifting increase in pounds.
> 
> Also, for some reason i feel as if I'm retaining weight around the abdominal area, althought my weight has not really changed.. Maybe water retention???



Possibly water although Havoc is a dryer compound.


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## bones33 (Aug 13, 2008)

No real changes while using this, if so there so minute they could easily be attributed to normal diet and lifting.. Upset with this product.


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## workingatit43 (Aug 13, 2008)

bones33 said:


> No real changes while using this, if so there so minute they could easily be attributed to normal diet and lifting.. Upset with this product.



Well is this back to back on the Havoc?


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## ZECH (Aug 13, 2008)

bones33 said:


> No real changes while using this, if so there so minute they could easily be attributed to normal diet and lifting.. Upset with this product.



I don't know that I would count the product out. I tell everyone that eating has everything to do with gaining, even while on steriods. Steriods are not going to make you gain if your diet is not what it should be. Now I don't know what your diet was like, but unless you can gain naturally by eating, steriods will not help you gain a pound except for maybe some water retention. No Muscle.


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## ZECH (Aug 13, 2008)

And honestly, you were not at a point that you should have needed a product like this.
How long have you been off the first cycle?


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## bones33 (Aug 13, 2008)

About 3 months since I took my last havoc cycle, I shouldn't have said that earlier, I am gaining, its just very VERY frustrating, and if anything it was just the frustration talking. I've noticed size in the chest/arms/shoulders.. but the strength wasn't what I expected...


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## workingatit43 (Aug 14, 2008)

dg806 said:


> I don't know that I would count the product out. I tell everyone that eating has everything to do with gaining, even while on steriods. Steriods are not going to make you gain if your diet is not what it should be. Now I don't know what your diet was like, but unless you can gain naturally by eating, steriods will not help you gain a pound except for maybe some water retention. No Muscle.



Agreed 100% eat alot and eat clean on this. I would not have run Havoc 2 cycles in a row it is better to switch up to a different compound but keep busting it bro the gains will be there if you eat and train right.


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## ZECH (Aug 14, 2008)

bones33 said:


> About 3 months since I took my last havoc cycle, I shouldn't have said that earlier, I am gaining, its just very VERY frustrating, and if anything it was just the frustration talking. I've noticed size in the chest/arms/shoulders.. but the strength wasn't what I expected...



You also can gain very quickly on first cycles, but as you grow, the gains come slower and harder. If not everyone would be 500 lbs. You just can't keep gaining 20 lbs on every cycle. Your body will not support but just so much mass.


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## bones33 (Aug 15, 2008)

Def. man, and DG i totally agree man, i'm thought about that later, and it makes sense. Like I said, I was just frustrated from my high expectations, but in all honesty, I have noticed arm and shoulder growth today, and got a complement also.


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## workingatit43 (Aug 15, 2008)

bones33 said:


> Def. man, and DG i totally agree man, i'm thought about that later, and it makes sense. Like I said, I was just frustrated from my high expectations, but in all honesty, I have noticed arm and shoulder growth today, and got a complement also.




Good deal on that bro


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## ZECH (Aug 15, 2008)

And we all feel this way. This is what seperates boys from men. Men will stick to it and stay dedicated for years gaining muscle. It does not come overnight and it doesn't come easy.


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## bones33 (Aug 16, 2008)

Yea, DG and Working, you guys taking anything particular?


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## workingatit43 (Aug 16, 2008)

bones33 said:


> Yea, DG and Working, you guys taking anything particular?




At this time I am only taking creatine, whey and fish oil. I will be doing in the near future a Stoked/Activate Xtreme stack. I am not sure when I will run another steriod.


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## bones33 (Aug 18, 2008)

Cool... Fish Oil, would you recommend that a 21 yo male??


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## gerard4864 (Mar 16, 2011)

bump


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## S2kracer (Mar 16, 2011)

Bones33, check out the 5x5 program or some variation thereof.  Best complete weigh lifting plan.  If I could trade every 10 rep exercise for a 6 rep or 5 rep with more weight, I would.


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## TGB1987 (Mar 17, 2011)

Bones what is your age?  It sounds like you were not ready for a product like havoc.  Havoc contains an actual steroid.  It has the potential for negative sides such as shutting down your HPTA axis which is what produces your natural test.  You could of been training naturally with some good supps like creatine and a pre workout supp and made decent gains.  The main thing is that you have to have your diet, nutrition, and training where it needs to be.  This is key for any supplement you plan to run.


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## carmineb (Mar 18, 2011)

my havoc cycle started off great and i was pushing heavier weights and was able to fight thru greusome reps, so much so, that I was able to do 6 plates on leg press machine (vs 5 before) not for 6 reps but I was able to fight all the way to 20. albeit, I couldnt walk for 4 days and my leg muscles started to cramp up while still at the gym, never happened to me in my life... I was adding at least 25% to all my lifts and holding peak contractions for many of them... If anything, it helped me see what might have ben a truer sense of wah I was able to do. I was more sore of course, had gained arond 6- 7 pounds after 2 weeks.

then family issues came around, i wa in a full alarm stress situation, cortisol had to have been thru the roof for me and I lost the drive so went lighter and just went to gym just cuz i had started a cycle and didnt want to end it so short. LAst week on cycle I did not even work out. After it was all said and done, i had lost, not gained approximately 10-12 pounds and I could see it everywhere, mostly legs.... 

I was so pumped to do this first real cycle not expecting drama to envelope my life 1/3-1/2 way into it. but I can say based on my first 2 weeks, besides lethargy setting in, it was looking good.

bootle says dont do havoc wtihout at least 4 mos interval between the cycles.... basically, to be safe, no more than twice a year I guess.


TGB,  what would you recommend to include in a pct to assist in the hpta recovery?


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## braveand (Mar 19, 2011)

As dg said ph are diet sensitive..
Be sure to plan every details of your diet and choose the right macros for your body structure.. Then go over your maintenance, train hard and gains will come for sure.

and if you want to retain your gains and fully recover GET a SERM because with epiotren you are stacking Havoc and Tren two class 3 drugs!


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