# Core Training, how often?



## viet_jon (Aug 21, 2006)

how often should you do core training?

i've read some articles where it says that abs is mainly about fat loss, and not working them. But now I understand the importance of core training. I barely done any core training except lower back for the last 3 months, so I figure my core strength/stability is lacking compared to the rest of my muscles.

so should I up the frequency/volume of core training for a month or so, to let it catch up to the rest of my body?


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## Yanick (Aug 21, 2006)

every lifting session and sometimes after a cardio/stretching session. i learned the hard way how important a strong and stable core is to lifting.

if you haven't done a lot of core work before you might want to start off with a fairly low volume and work up to a decent level (i'm up to about 6 sets for core work right now after every workout).

also remember that your core works mostly as a stabilizer aka its main function is to contract isometrically and maintain appropriate spinal curvature so be sure to train in that fashion.


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## P-funk (Aug 21, 2006)

i usually do some sort of either stability exercise or rotary movement everytime I train.


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## CowPimp (Aug 21, 2006)

Hrm.  I've never really done much, though I've been throwing it in my circuit training a bit lately.  My core strength has always been pretty good naturally without doing much for it.  I can do virtually any kind of plank variation or rotatry movement with heavy weights without ever having done it previously (When demonstrating to a client or just fucking around).

My point is that you need to asses how much the training will help you.  I don't feel I need to do much accessory core work, but I can tell you for damned sure that certain clients need it frequently.


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## ponyboy (Aug 21, 2006)

P-funk said:


> i usually do some sort of either stability exercise or rotary movement everytime I train.



Same here, but I rely on it a lot for my endurance training.  I also find it really helped my lifting though.  I find most back injuries are due to not only weak core but underdeveloped obliques and lower back due to excessive forward flexion movements without anything else.


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## PWGriffin (Aug 21, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Hrm.  I've never really done much, though I've been throwing it in my circuit training a bit lately.  My core strength has always been pretty good naturally without doing much for it.  I can do virtually any kind of plank variation or rotatry movement with heavy weights without ever having done it previously (When demonstrating to a client or just fucking around).
> 
> My point is that you need to asses how much the training will help you.  I don't feel I need to do much accessory core work, but I can tell you for damned sure that certain clients need it frequently.



Same here...I've done some bullshit ab routines at the end of a few workouts here and there, but I did a plank today just messin around while my client was catching her breath, she wanted to know how long I could hold one.  I held it for a minute _fairly_ easily, and I had never done one before.  

I would like to see a page with the different plank and bird dog variations though, as I do plan on adding them at the end of my lower body days from now on.  Anybody got any links??


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## SuperFlex (Aug 21, 2006)

2-3x a week...


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## viet_jon (Aug 22, 2006)

Yanick said:


> every lifting session and sometimes after a cardio/stretching session. i learned the hard way how important a strong and stable core is to lifting.
> 
> if you haven't done a lot of core work before you might want to start off with a fairly low volume and work up to a decent level (i'm up to about 6 sets for core work right now after every workout).
> 
> also remember that your core works mostly as a stabilizer aka its main function is to *contract isometrically and maintain appropriate spinal curvature so be sure to train in that fashion.*




can u explain?


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## viet_jon (Aug 22, 2006)

Yanick said:


> every lifting session and sometimes after a cardio/stretching session. i learned the hard way how important a strong and stable core is to lifting.
> 
> if you haven't done a lot of core work before you might want to start off with a fairly low volume and work up to a decent level (i'm up to about 6 sets for core work right now after every workout).
> 
> also remember that your core works mostly as a stabilizer aka its main function is to *contract isometrically and maintain appropriate spinal curvature so be sure to train in that fashion.*




can u explain?  

what's isomatrically and how do i train it in that fashuion?


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## viet_jon (Aug 22, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Hrm.  I've never really done much, though I've been throwing it in my circuit training a bit lately.  My core strength has always been pretty good naturally without doing much for it.  I can do virtually any kind of plank variation or rotatry movement with heavy weights without ever having done it previously (When demonstrating to a client or just fucking around).
> 
> My point is that you need to asses how much the training will help you.  I don't feel I need to do much accessory core work, but I can tell you for damned sure that certain clients need it frequently.



i havn't done crap in a whjile. 

say i was your client, how would you asses me on how much core work I need?

i think my obliques are way underdeveloped compared to my abdominals. My sides feel like the're empty, while my abdominals feel rock hard under the fat.


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## CowPimp (Aug 22, 2006)

viet_jon said:


> i havn't done crap in a whjile.
> 
> say i was your client, how would you asses me on how much core work I need?
> 
> i think my obliques are way underdeveloped compared to my abdominals. My sides feel like the're empty, while my abdominals feel rock hard under the fat.



How is your stability when performing an overhead squat using a dowel, towel, or similar item of negligible weight?  Forward lean?  Shaking?  Smooth descent an ascent?  Valgus knee action?

How do you look performing a plank?  Do you use your glutes?  Do you have to hold your hips up high in order to steady yourself?  Does your lower back cave in?  Are you leaning to one side?

How do you look doing a bodyweight deadlift walk?  Excess valgus knee action?  Are you falling over, particularly to the outside?  Shaking?

In general, when performing various movements, can you prevent unwanted movement?  That is, can you keep still the parts of your body which make the support for the appendages in motion?

If you start to get more advanced, I like to see how you look doing a plate front squat.  I like to see how you look doing a deadlift.  DB front squats are a decent indicator.  Pushups are actually quite good too.


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## Yanick (Aug 23, 2006)

viet_jon said:


> can u explain?
> 
> what's isomatrically and how do i train it in that fashuion?



isometrically means that you are developing tension in the muscle but the length of the fibers isn't changing. like pushing against a wall as hard as you can, your still developing tension and stressing your muscles but you aren't actually moving or doing any work (in the physics sense). incidentally that is the same way your core works, the muscles must be strong but more often then not those muscles must prevent movement instead of producing it.

basically static holds and such, planks, bridges, static holds on stuff like hypers.


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## viet_jon (Aug 24, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> How is your stability when performing an *overhead squat using a dowel*, towel, or similar item of negligible weight?  Forward lean?  Shaking?  Smooth descent an ascent?  Valgus knee action?
> 
> How do you look performing a plank?  Do you use your glutes?  Do you have to hold your hips up high in order to steady yourself?  Does your lower back cave in?  Are you leaning to one side?
> 
> ...



yo what are those things in bold?

im gonna try to get a video camera this weekend. I think i'm pretty decent in the things you listed, but let's seee what you think.


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## kcoleman (Aug 24, 2006)

Statements such as "abs are all about diet" and "all you need for core are the heavy compounds" are only partially true.

Core training can play a huge role in how well your midsection looks, assuming the same % body fat untrained VS. trained.

I don't think heavy compounds alone will suffice for everyone. Once the poundages you are moving get heavy enough they might be, but up until that point your routine should be supplemented with core training IMO.


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## CowPimp (Aug 24, 2006)

viet_jon said:


> yo what are those things in bold?
> 
> im gonna try to get a video camera this weekend. I think i'm pretty decent in the things you listed, but let's seee what you think.



An overhead squat is where you squat holding something overhead.  A dowel is just a wooden stick, basically.

A deadlift walk is where you do a Romanian deadlift on one leg with your arms out to the sides, like you're making a T with your body.

A plate front squat is where you squat holding a plate with your arms straight out in front of you.  Think as though you are at the top of a front raise and squatting with your arms in that position.

The overhead squat is my favorite, it reveals so many things.  I like watching people do birddogs too.  It says a lot about core stability and balance as well as control of their pelvis.


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## viet_jon (Aug 24, 2006)

kcoleman said:


> Statements such as "abs are all about diet" and "all you need for core are the heavy compounds" are only partially true.
> 
> Core training can play a huge role in how well your midsection looks, assuming the same % body fat untrained VS. trained.
> 
> I don't think heavy compounds alone will suffice for everyone. Once the poundages you are moving get heavy enough they might be, but up until that point your routine should be supplemented with core training IMO.




yea, I wished I hadn't read those articles. I stopped all ab workout for two months. My midsection is looking different already after a week of core work.


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## Yanick (Aug 24, 2006)

i never understood why people would be scared of core work to increase strength. your core musculature is really heavily dominated by type I, slow twitch fibers which have very little potential for hypertrophy.

the demands on these muscles aren't necesarily strength oriented, they are more like strength-endurance so although some hypertrophy will occur, most adaptations, i would think, occur more along the lines of increasing substrate stores, efficiency etc.

also remember that although a bigger muscle means a stronger muscle, the opposite is not true. a muscle can be very strong without being big, look at the lighter weight classes in any strength related sport. the guys are not big at all (maybe muscular but not big) but they can outlift almost any bodybuilder.


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## CowPimp (Aug 25, 2006)

That's what I say.  I also think improved core strength is largely the result of improvements in coordination and neuromuscular efficiency, though some hypertrophy can certainly occur.


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## blueboy75 (Aug 25, 2006)

viet_jon said:


> yea, I wished I hadn't read those articles. I stopped all ab workout for two months. My midsection is looking different already after a week of core work.



same here, glad I read this post - Ive neglected core work myself.


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## CowPimp (Aug 25, 2006)

viet_jon said:


> yea, I wished I hadn't read those articles. I stopped all ab workout for two months. My midsection is looking different already after a week of core work.



Somehow I think that it's psychosomatic that you've noticed any serious results in one week.


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## Double D (Aug 25, 2006)

Hell for the past 3 months I have did nothing but decline crunches 4x20 reps and have had great results. My deads had went up to before I suffered a shoulder injury.


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## PWGriffin (Aug 25, 2006)

Anyone ever do planks with weights on their back??  Is this bad??

I held a plank today with 125lbs on my back, pretty intense (45lb plate with 80lb dumbell on top)

My core is strong I guess??


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## AKIRA (Aug 25, 2006)

^I guess I cant do that since I always workout alone.


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## PWGriffin (Aug 25, 2006)

AKIRA said:


> ^I guess I cant do that since I always workout alone.



Actually.....my friend TOTALLY managed to slide a plate onto his back by himself...it took a little determination on his part but he got it!! It was fun to watch too....I laughed my ass off.


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## rmcfar (Aug 25, 2006)

i was asked to do squats on top of an exercise ball to asses my core strength

it was pretty dangerous but i guess its a good indicator of how strong you are from the chest down


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## P-funk (Aug 25, 2006)

rmcfar said:


> i was asked to do squats on top of an exercise ball to asses my core strength
> 
> it was pretty dangerous but i guess its a good indicator of how strong you are from the chest down



possibly one of the stupidest things you can do!


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## mike456 (Aug 25, 2006)

rmcfar said:


> i was asked to do squats on top of an exercise ball to asses my core strength
> 
> it was pretty dangerous but i guess its a good indicator of how strong you are from the chest down



thats insane, did you fall or what?


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## Yanick (Aug 26, 2006)

rmcfar said:


> i was asked to do squats on top of an exercise ball to asses my core strength
> 
> it was pretty dangerous but i guess its a good indicator of how strong you are from the chest down



i hope those were BW squats atleast!


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## ponyboy (Aug 26, 2006)

P-funk said:


> possibly one of the stupidest things you can do!



Why do you say that?  I do these (BW of course only) all the time as a CNS exercise and to develop my spinal stabilizers for running/cycling.  I also use it to stand on and do arm extensions with rotation to help my swimming.  I realize it isn't ideal for swimming but it's still effective.


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## P-funk (Aug 26, 2006)

ponyboy said:


> Why do you say that?  I do these (BW of course only) all the time as a CNS exercise and to develop my spinal stabilizers for running/cycling.  I also use it to stand on and do arm extensions with rotation to help my swimming.  I realize it isn't ideal for swimming but it's still effective.



Standing on top of a stability ball?

Are you joking?

Risk is so much greater then the reward.  If you fall off that thing you are pretty much fucked.

If you don't believe me as Juan Carlos Santana, who blew out his ACL standing on one in a lecture....he concluded that he would never do it again.

Some exercises make sense...this one does not.

What do you have to gain by standing on a stability ball and squatting that you can't gain by standing on one leg and squatting?  Or even a wobble board or half foam roller or bosu ball if you want to go the unstable route.  Those variations are much safer then standing on a stability ball and provide similiar benefit.


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## ponyboy (Aug 26, 2006)

Obviously safety is paramount.  I stand on it with supports around me (in a cage) so if I lose my balance I have something to grab onto.  And of course I do all of the other variations.  Occasionally I'll even do cable wood choppers standing on it, or something else like a foam roller.  The effect just isn't the same with the other apparatus, at least not for someone who is experienced enough and needs more of a challenge.  And just because one person blew their ACL standing on one during a lecture (which would be stupid enough, BTW) doesn't mean it's an invalid movement.


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## P-funk (Aug 26, 2006)

ponyboy said:


> Obviously safety is paramount.  I stand on it with supports around me (in a cage) so if I lose my balance I have something to grab onto.  And of course I do all of the other variations.  Occasionally I'll even do cable wood choppers standing on it, or something else like a foam roller.  The effect just isn't the same with the other apparatus, at least not for someone who is experienced enough and needs more of a challenge.  And just because one person blew their ACL standing on one during a lecture (which would be stupid enough, BTW) doesn't mean it's an invalid movement.



try increasing the intensity on the other apparatus.  that is the point of unstable surface training anyway.....To display a certain amount of strength and power.

Also, look at how the feet are planted on the ball.  this position will alter movement at the subtalar joint, which would have other implications up the kinetic chain.....who squats or does anything standing on the sides of their feet?


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## blueboy75 (Aug 26, 2006)

rmcfar said:


> i was asked to do squats on top of an exercise ball to asses my core strength
> 
> it was pretty dangerous but i guess its a good indicator of how strong you are from the chest down



Ive seen PT's in my gym have people to squats in those half type exercise ball, still not for me.

The PT's have their clients do many exercises on exercise balls like DB bench, DB shoulder press are 2 that I see alot.


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## ponyboy (Aug 26, 2006)

P-funk said:


> try increasing the intensity on the other apparatus.  that is the point of unstable surface training anyway.....To display a certain amount of strength and power.
> 
> Also, look at how the feet are planted on the ball.  this position will alter movement at the subtalar joint, which would have other implications up the kinetic chain.....who squats or does anything standing on the sides of their feet?



Patrick, you and I really need to actually speak face to face one day.  And train for that matter.  

It isn't possible to increase the intensity on the other apparatus beyond a certain point.  While it is effective to have one sided dominance on an unstable surface - having no stability whatsoever greatly increases the 
load on the CNS - and I'm the first person to say that nobody squats on the side of their feet - unless they have plantar faciatis to have to work on training their posterior tibialis.

I'm not claiming it is a functional movement beyond CNS training.  There is no  evidence to support that.  However - In my years of experience I have seen great improvement in balance and stability doing simple balancing ball exercies (kneeling, standing, and even seated) meaning when people slip - they don't fall down.  Neurologically it works.


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## P-funk (Aug 27, 2006)

I am not disagreeing with the validity of using balance tools in the workout.  Not at all.  It think they are a vaild training aid and can be used at certain times.  I don't think all the time though.  the studies on unstable surfaces and showing their benefit have been done on people who already have injured ankles (sprains, breaks, etc..)...They showed benifit.  But, as we know, you can't take studies done on sick people and apply them to already healthy athletes.  That said, I think that some form of balance training in a program is necessary and helpful.

I am only agreeing to disagree with standing on the ball.  I think risk is greater then reward on that one.


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## Bakerboy (Aug 27, 2006)

P-funk said:


> I am not disagreeing with the validity of using balance tools in the workout.  Not at all.  It think they are a vaild training aid and can be used at certain times.  I don't think all the time though.  the studies on unstable surfaces and showing their benefit have been done on people who already have injured ankles (sprains, breaks, etc..)...They showed benifit.  But, as we know, you can't take studies done on sick people and apply them to already healthy athletes.  That said, I think that some form of balance training in a program is necessary and helpful.
> 
> *I am only agreeing to disagree with standing on the ball.  I think risk is greater then reward on that one*.



So do you think performing squats on wobble boards to be less risky then on bosu ball because your feet are on a flat surface?


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## kcoleman (Aug 27, 2006)

I knew somebody who performed side lateral raises while standing on an exercise ball.


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## AKIRA (Aug 27, 2006)

Are we talking about an actual stability ball or a half of a stability ball with a flat surface?


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## rmcfar (Aug 27, 2006)

i was doing them on an actual ball

i think they are beneficial to hockey players in particular because you are never pushing off of one foot when it is perfectly flat to the ground. Your feet are constantly at different angles and the instability of the ball helped to recreate the constant change in angles of your feet while you have to maintain control of your upper body. 

That being said whenever we did these squats we would have a partner standing behind us to grab us if we did fall. And i can honestly say that i never saw a kid fall off of a stability ball while doing squats. It may be dangerous but like anything else when done in a controlled environment then i think it is beneficial to some athletes.


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## P-funk (Aug 27, 2006)

Bakerboy said:


> So do you think performing squats on wobble boards to be less risky then on bosu ball because your feet are on a flat surface?



I think it is less risky because you aren't going to fall off the wobble board.  it tips to one side and stops..that is it.  The stability ball, you are high up and you are on a very unstable (globe like) surface.

In general, I don't use wobble boards either.

Pretty much stick with single leg stuff, then move to half foam rollers.  Not that the wobble boards are bad....i just don't use them that much.


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## CowPimp (Aug 27, 2006)

Sometimes when I'm bored waiting for a client I stand on a medicine ball and do squats, heh.

Anyway, my opinion on stable surface training is that it's overrated.  This isn't to say it's worthless at all.  I certainly use stability balls, though I don't use the BOSU much.  I have yet to jump into the half foam roller thing, but that seems likle a good idea (I do recall Mike Boyle implementing it in his book).  

However, I have noticed that people who can throw around big weights with compound structural exercises utilizing freeweights and have some level of improved force generation are much better at performing exercises with an element of instability added than someone who does lots of stuff with unstable surfaces trying to toy with heavier weights.  

My thoughts are that a good foundation of strength should be built up first before unstable surfaces are thrown into the mix too much.  Unstable surfaces should be used as a progression, not a first step.  Also, I'm not directing this at you pony, I just felt I would share my opinion on the whole unstable surface gig.


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## Yanick (Aug 27, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> My thoughts are that a good foundation of strength should be built up first before unstable surfaces are thrown into the mix too much.  Unstable surfaces should be used as a progression, not a first step.  Also, I'm not directing this at you pony, I just felt I would share my opinion on the whole unstable surface gig.



i have to agree with this. you have trainers nowadays putting people on unstable surfaces because they learned what 'proprioception' means, when that person can't even sink a squat on stable ground.

i don't see a problem with using the stability ball if a person has worked up to using a stability ball.


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## ponyboy (Aug 27, 2006)

Yanick said:


> i have to agree with this. you have trainers nowadays putting people on unstable surfaces because they learned what 'proprioception' means, when that person can't even sink a squat on stable ground.
> 
> i don't see a problem with using the stability ball if a person has worked up to using a stability ball.



I totally agree.  There is a high amount of progression before I would even move someone to an unstable surface.  Most people can't even squat properly without any weight, never mind doing it on an unstable surface.  

Although sometimes it is fun to take some cocky guy who thinks he can do anything and humble them by cutting the amount of weight they can move in half because all of a sudden they are unstable.


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## viet_jon (Aug 28, 2006)

Cowpimp, please assess me. Or any PT's on this site for that matter. Or anyone.

Deadlift

Walking

Squat

Overhead Squat, Front Plate Squat

Hand To Side Squat


i'm still waiting for youtube to process 3 more videos of pushups, planks, and birdogs.



For the squatting motions, I find it difficult to get a good range of motion whith a close stance, does that mean something?


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## CowPimp (Aug 28, 2006)

Well, there's only so much I can see from a side view, but here are my thoughts:  

Your posture looks good during squats and deadlifts.  You have a nice neutral spine.  

I can also tell you from the overhead squat that your pecs and lats are not excessively tight.  Your arms stay in a reasonable position.  

Your depth looks pretty good unless you go narrow.  How narrow are you going?

I can't tell if your knees are stable from the side, but they look okay from what I can see.

I can't tell if your feet are pronating.  It looks like they almost wanted to slightly.  It also appeared that your feet were a tad externally rotated when walking, but again, this view is not the best for spotting this compensation.

Really, your form looks good overall.  If you really wanted, you could record another shot of the overhead squat from the front and back keeping your feet pointing straight ahead.  Most likely you are fine though.


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## CowPimp (Aug 28, 2006)

Oh, and nice weights, hehe.  What are those, sandbags?


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## Dale Mabry (Aug 28, 2006)

IMO, using unstable surfaces is good for building ankle stability and "reactive ability" in the ankle.  It's not really reactive ability, but I don't know what to call it, I guess it is the ability of the ankle to quickly respond to change.  I don't see how a surface can be efficient at doing this when the ankle is stuck in a fixed position, a poor one at that.


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## viet_jon (Aug 28, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Oh, and nice weights, hehe.  What are those, sandbags?




oh, HAHAHAHHA lol.....

those are 35 lb rice bags. I thought it would be weird to bring a camera into the gym, then recording myself.


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## viet_jon (Aug 28, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Well, there's only so much I can see from a side view, but here are my thoughts:
> 
> Your posture looks good during squats and deadlifts.  You have a nice neutral spine.
> 
> ...




I could barely squat going narrow. I think it was about a foot and a half. Wide stance feels pretty natural though.

What does pronating mean?

i'll get videos of overhead squats from more views. it's kinda late, too damn lazy to setup rice bags again......i'll up em by tomorrow.

thnkx pimp


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## Bakerboy (Aug 28, 2006)

Nice job. I like the setup. If you get two (large size) plastic buckets and fill them with water are sanddags or rice whatever you could do farmer walks.
Looking good.


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## CowPimp (Aug 28, 2006)

viet_jon said:


> I could barely squat going narrow. I think it was about a foot and a half. Wide stance feels pretty natural though.
> 
> What does pronating mean?
> 
> ...



Pronating is where your ankle moves inward and the arch of your foot contacts the ground.


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## Yanick (Aug 28, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Pronating is where your ankle moves inward and the arch of your foot contacts the ground.



thats not entirely accurate. what you are describing, as far as i can tell, is ankle eversion (where your weight is resting on the medial longitudinal arch of your foot).

true pronation of the foot is a combination of dorsiflexion, subtalar eversion and forefoot abduction.


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## P-funk (Aug 28, 2006)

^^^  Holy shit....were did this guy come from??  haha


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## Dale Mabry (Aug 28, 2006)

P-funk said:


> ^^^  Holy shit....were did this guy come from??  haha



Apparently from the library.


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## P-funk (Aug 28, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:


> Apparently from the library.


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## CowPimp (Aug 28, 2006)

Yanick said:


> thats not entirely accurate. what you are describing, as far as i can tell, is ankle eversion (where your weight is resting on the medial longitudinal arch of your foot).
> 
> true pronation of the foot is a combination of dorsiflexion, subtalar eversion and forefoot abduction.



The term is thrown around almost interchangably with flattening and eversion.  You're right though.  Either way, it would be accurate in this case.


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## viet_jon (Aug 28, 2006)

Yanick said:


> thats not entirely accurate. what you are describing, as far as i can tell, is ankle eversion (where your weight is resting on the medial longitudinal arch of your foot).
> 
> true pronation of the foot is a combination of *dorsiflexion, subtalar eversion and forefoot abduction*.




can you explain that?


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## CowPimp (Aug 28, 2006)

viet_jon said:


> can you explain that?



Dorsiflexion is where you raise your toes toward the sky, the opposite of a calf raise (Plantarflexion).  Eversion is what I described earlier.  Your ankle moves inward and the arch flattens while the outside of your foot raises up toward the sky.  Abduction is twisting/rotating of the foot away from the midline of the body.


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## Yanick (Aug 28, 2006)

haha, i'm not a trainer anymore, but i still love this stuff!! i was the only nursing major in my kinesiology class and my teacher talked so much trash to me about how her class wasn't an easy class and i won't just breeze through, meanwhile i owned that class the whole semester. sometimes we would just get into debates during the class and waste like 30 minutes arguing about shit lol.

anyway, contrary to popular belief, the movements of the foot happen at various joints not just the "ankle" joint (tibio-tarsal joint).

pronation:
at the ankle we have dorsiflexion, which is when you bring your toes towards your shin.

at the subtalar joint we have eversion (the bottom of your foot looks out, weight is on the middle portion of your foot)

forefoot abduction "spreading/fanning your toes out away from each other"


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## P-funk (Aug 28, 2006)

however, if the ankle lacks mobility and the talus is unable to posteriorly slide a the talocrural joint, the tansverse tarsal joint (consisting of the talonavicular joint and the calcaneocuboid joint) will be forced to compensate for the movement through its oblique axis of rotation, which can help to aid in pronation (abduction and dorsiflexion) or supination (adduction and plantar flexion).


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## Yanick (Aug 28, 2006)

NB, what i described, i believe, is pronation of the foot during open chain movement. when speaking about closed chain, i believe two of the three joint actions are actually reversed. its very difficult for me to figure such things out as the only time i encounter them is during my readings and during the couple of in depth convo's we have here. there is no repetition for me with this stuff so much of these concepts are words in my head and haven't really 'clicked' yet.


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## viet_jon (Aug 28, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Dorsiflexion is where you raise your toes toward the sky, the opposite of a calf raise (Plantarflexion).  Eversion is what I described earlier.  Your ankle moves inward and the arch flattens while the outside of your foot raises up toward the sky.  Abduction is twisting/rotating of the foot away from the midline of the body.



awesome..!!

u guys amaze me!  adore:

bakerboy:
it's kinda hard to add on weights though. I just wanted to check my form.
and plus the bags keep on wobbling on the rope.



my squats before i recorded myself we'rnt all that great. Then when I seen them from a sideview, i saw what I needed to improve. The video that I posted is the improved version, and is how im gonna be doing them from now on. I think i should record myself doing every lift, from different angles....i found a great tool.!!


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## Yanick (Aug 28, 2006)

P-funk said:


> however, if the ankle lacks mobility and the talus is unable to posteriorly slide a the talocrural joint, the tansverse tarsal joint (consisting of the talonavicular joint and the calcaneocuboid joint) will be forced to compensate for the movement through its oblique axis of rotation, which can help to aid in pronation (abduction and dorsiflexion) or supination (adduction and plantar flexion).



if i had my anatomy book handy i could look this up and try to make sense of it, but for now i'll let you have your fun...fuckin guy


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## Bakerboy (Aug 28, 2006)

viet_jon said:


> bakerboy:
> it's kinda hard to add on weights though. I just wanted to check my form.
> and plus the bags keep on wobbling on the rope.



You could always do pistols. When they are too easy to do them, hold a liquid laundry container filled with sand or water, or something else. I love pistols.

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.powerathletesmag.com/images/kbpics%2520035.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.powerathletesmag.com/pages/pistols.htm&h=1536&w=2048&sz=648&hl=en&start=41&tbnid=5XMzco93QoEY9M:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpistols%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN


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## P-funk (Aug 28, 2006)

you could always try doing them off a box like this.  I like them like this better because the front leg doesn't get in the way as much.


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## viet_jon (Aug 28, 2006)

Bakerboy said:


> You could always do pistols. When they are too easy to do them, hold a liquid laundry container filled with sand or water, or something else. I love pistols.
> 
> http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.powerathletesmag.com/images/kbpics%2520035.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.powerathletesmag.com/pages/pistols.htm&h=1536&w=2048&sz=648&hl=en&start=41&tbnid=5XMzco93QoEY9M:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpistols%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN



that looks pretty cool. i bet it's harder than it looks. gonna try that and dragon flags tomorrow.


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## viet_jon (Aug 28, 2006)

P-funk said:


> you could always try doing them off a box like this.  I like them like this better because the front leg doesn't get in the way as much.



doesn't work


it says loading........


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## P-funk (Aug 28, 2006)

yea, you tube has been weird today.  check back tomorrow.


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## Dale Mabry (Aug 29, 2006)

P-funk said:


> you could always try doing them off a box like this.  I like them like this better because the front leg doesn't get in the way as much.




Classic band-aid approach for someone who can't hold their leg out in front because of a lack odf proper hamstring flexibility or who gets cramps through the use of compensatory movement patterns.


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## P-funk (Aug 29, 2006)

I think the technique is better and you can get better depth like this though.


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## Bakerboy (Aug 29, 2006)

^ The video still not working.


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## P-funk (Aug 29, 2006)

I don't know what is wrong with it?


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## viet_jon (Aug 29, 2006)

i can't do pistols. That shits damn hard. dissapointed


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## CowPimp (Aug 29, 2006)

I can only do them if I put my arms in front of me to get some counter-balance going.


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## Bakerboy (Aug 29, 2006)

viet_jon said:


> i can't do pistols. That shits damn hard. dissapointed



To start you can do them holding onto a door jam (like the link I posted yesterday, scoll to the bottom of the page).


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