# Liquidex???



## gr81 (Jun 6, 2003)

I have had trouble finding much info on this drug and I just purchased a bottle of it so I just have a few questions about this anti-E. Are the dosage amounts similar to the oral verions? I have read about the 1mg/ml and the 4mg/ml bottles but my bottle is a 2mg/ml. So .5mg-1mg per day should be a good dose from what I understand. I am taking this b/c I am on 2grams of test/week and last week I started to notice some gyno symptoms. What kind of time frame am I looking at before I can expect to see the effects of this drug? It is administered orally by just squirting the liquid in the mouth correct? If there is any other relevant info about how to go about taking this drug I would really appreciate the info fellas, thanks.


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## Mudge (Jun 6, 2003)

I knew people were using it to keep water off, never knew it was a true anti E. .5mg is common for people. Yes its still oral.

2 grams, you must be a fuckin monster, 270 pound NPC guy hasn't gone over 1.2 yet.


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## LAM (Jun 6, 2003)

Mudge..actually Liquidex like arimidex inhibits the enzyme aromataze so estrogen is not blocked but not produced.  

having to low estrogen levels can be just as bad as having to high of estrogen levels...be very carefull with that stuff !!!


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## gr81 (Jun 6, 2003)

believe me I wouldn't be resorting to the anti E's unless I had to. I don't give a fuck about being moonfaced and bloated, I don't care about the acne really either if it means my test levels are through the roof, but the gyno is the one side effect I can't deal with, ya feel me. Besides I got a pretty good deal on the bottle of liquidex, that is why I didn't go with the nolva or clomid. 




> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> 2 grams, you must be a fuckin monster, 270 pound NPC guy hasn't gone over 1.2 yet.



That is the plan, to be a monster. I have also been takin around 800-1000mgs EQ and poppin D-bol occasionally. no sense in pussy footin around Thanks for the responses guys. All the info I can get helps.


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## Mudge (Jun 6, 2003)

More is not better unless its whats needed to get results. Side effects, and wasted gear are all that results, as well as like Franko Sanitoriello, who has to use so much gear per week he can no longer compete because he practically kills himself on cycle to get any kind of results.


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## gr81 (Jun 9, 2003)

2 grams a week really isnt that much, it is a high dose for sure but there are guys out there that take that much a day. you are probably right though. I was rounding up the doses so it hasn't been exactly that much, but you know. It has been more like 1200-1800mgs of test/week. I don't plan to be on for an extended period of time.
 So nobody knows about how long before taking the armidex I can expect to see the effects? I have been on it for about 4 days and haven't been able to notice much difference. The reason I ask is b/c I am not sure if this bottle of liquidex I have is legit.


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## Mudge (Jun 9, 2003)

270 pounds, 10% bodyfat, 5'11" 1.2g test 1.2g EQ (not me, obviously)

Stick with the lowest doses possible that deliver results. For a 2 week front load a double dose is fine. Stick to the same dose, dont yo-yo.

Arimidex affects cholesteral profile, so its not recomended to be used that often, or in high doses. .25-.5mg ED should be enough, give it a week. Your using so much test though your going to hold a ton of water, hows the blood pressure?


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## gr81 (Jun 9, 2003)

I had the BP checked the other day and it was within normal so that was all good. I haven't meant to Yo Yo so much, my cycle hasn't exactly gone as planned. I started off planning to take a gram of test and 700 or so of EQ. I had some trouble hooking up the EQ in time which isn't a problem. But the problem was I started off with the test400 b/c it is the highest dose/ml. What I didn't count on was the painful injections so 1 week I would be on track with the doses, but then the next week I would be so incapaccitated from the t400 shots that I had to skip some workouts and and some shots. The last few weeks I have been alot better about things. I have been taking the QVcyp200 which is much easier to handle. I know that how I have been going about things isn't the way you should but I have made some rookie mistakes and I am getting a hang on things.
 I am aware of Armidex effeecting cholestorol and I haven't been going very high with the doses. I have kept it within .5mg -1mg/day and I will go off of what I see happen the next week. I just hope that it is legit. Thanks for the concern though mudge


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## Mudge (Jun 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by LAM *_
> having to low estrogen levels can be just as bad as having to high of estrogen levels...be very carefull with that stuff !!!



Cholesterol, and bone density - what else


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## crackerjack414 (Jun 11, 2003)

i only use anti E's when dieting to prevent estrongenic related fat deposits from occuring.
The only people I know who use 2g of test are pros...
most national level guys i know are between 1-1.5 gs of test


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## gr81 (Jun 11, 2003)

Yeah I got a little overzealous with the test but its all good. I am at about 1 gram/week now. I wouldn't be using anti-Es unless I had to. I think that this liquidex I have is bunk by the way. I have been taking it for a week and haven't noticed any slowing down in these gyno symptoms. WTF!


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## Mudge (Jun 11, 2003)

A gram is still a serious load man. This is why more does not = mo betta, the main result is sides sides sides and some wasted cash.

Test is great, but I would rather have gone with 500mg test and 400-500mg EQ or something like that. Used alone test has its limits...

Early on using large amounts of test is just I think going to mess you up down the road when you have to use increasingly large amounts. Start out with the smallest dose needed to get good results, and for most people training and eating right 400-500mg test for a first cycle should whup your butt 

250mg a week has also been done and I see fairly often 12-20 pounds a cycle, a couple folks claim almost nothing and I'd assume they have already high natural test levels and/or bunk gear.

I dont know how many weeks its been for you but I'd drop it down to 500 pronto, maybe make it twice weekly shots if its enan/cyp to even things out which also helps reduce sides, and consider your 1+ gram stuff a major front load.

Thats my 2 cents


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## gr81 (Jun 11, 2003)

^^I disagree with this mudge. First of all I am not just on test, I have been cycling with the EQ as well but anyway, the whole arguement of starting light and then going heavy comes from the myth that androgens become less effective the more often you use them which isn't true.One of the reasons that is seems like the effectiveness has decreased is b/c the person starts at a higher level base each following cycle. The idea of using a small dosage and then progressively increasing the dosage throughout the cycle and finally decreasing gradually really doesn't have any merit. First, that small dosage in the beginning is doing nothing but inhibiting your endogenous Testosterone production while producing less than significant gains. The idea that progressively using less and less will slowly allow your endogenous Testosterone to return to normal is false as well. In fact, 100 mg is just as suppressive as 300 mg, so there's no point in ramping up and down. The best way to go about it is to use a good dosage and stick with that dosage the entire time. As you progress and androgen receptors up-regulate, the androgens may be even more effective. So if a certain amount of androgen used causes AR expression and up to a certain point more of hte androgen increases AR expression to an even greater degree, then there is no reason not to start out at a higher dose. There really isn't any sufficient data to support the notion that starting out low is better, regardless of what people think.


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## Mudge (Jun 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gr81 *_
> The idea of using a small dosage and then progressively increasing the dosage throughout the cycle and finally decreasing gradually really doesn't have any merit.



Never said that, I am saying unless your 300+ pounds of muscle there is no reason for 2 grams. If your floating around the 260 mark @ 10% bodyfat, I can see 1 gram, I am nowhere near any of those numbers.

Also again the local guy who I can use as an example, 24" arms and never goes over 700mg.

Playing with dose through the cycle is yo-yoing, which is exactly what I said not to do  A 2 week front load is something else entirely.

If you can't make gains on lower amounts, then you know what the old saying is, take up golf. Thats not meant to be offensive, just reality.

500mg test is roughly 7 times someones natural test level, there is no reason to go beyond that without some major mass to back it up.


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## gr81 (Jun 11, 2003)

The reason to go past the 500mgs IS to put on the major mass. Why would I worry about it if I already had the size. Maybe this cycle would be too much for some looking to gain a little bit of weight, but I want to pack the size on. I want to be 30-40 lbs heavier in a number of months. and that won't happen with 500 mg doses. I am sure that I could make some gains on a smaller dose, but I want huge gains so why would I waste my time with smaller doses when eventually I will bump them up to where I am at now? By your rational someone who is already a monster can take larger doses. The amount of muscle mass doesn't determine how much you should take.


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## Mudge (Jun 11, 2003)

30 pounds in 10 weeks is totally doable man, on 500mg test + other goodies.

We obviously disagree 

To me thats like saying that we should eat 700 grams of protein and 6500 calories a day because Ronnie Coleman is no different than we are.

Good luck with the cycle


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## Mudge (Jun 23, 2003)

> Lastly, one should be aware that use of these compounds can reduce the gains made on steroids. Nolvadex more so than clomid, simply because it is stronger. Estrogen is responsible for a number of anabolic factors such as increasing growth hormone output, upgrading the androgen receptor and improving glucose utilization. This is why aromatizing steroids like testosterone are still best suited for maximum muscle gain. When reducing the estrogen levels, we therefore reduce the potential gains being made. For this reason one may opt to try clomid during a cycle instead of Nolvadex. Although I would imagine that the problem that needed solved would be of more concern, in which case Nolva remains the weapon of choice. It's a plain fact that there is a high correlation between gains and side-effects. Either you go for maximum gains and tolerate the side-effects, or you reduce the side-effects, and with it the gains. That's life, nothing is free.



http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catnolv.htm


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## Mifody (Jun 29, 2003)

being in your situation and already feeling symptoms of gyno, i'd go with nolvadex.  liquidex will help with future build up of estrogen but probably wont do anything for the symptoms you are feeling now.. not as quickly as nolva will anyway. also since your not concerned with the bloat, you shouldnt bother with liquidex.  nolvadex for gyno control is all thats necessary.. just my opinion   i guess if you got the liquidex already, might as well go nuts but i'd use some nolva too.

genetics also determine how well a person will respond to steroids.  one person may only need 500mgs of test to get up to 300+ lbs, wheras someone else may need alot more.  guess it just depends on what you want to put your body through to get that 300 lbs


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## Mudge (Jun 29, 2003)

Your also kissing goodbye strength gains by trying to suppress estrogen.


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## gr81 (Jun 29, 2003)

Actually things have been going well for me, I am getting into weights I have never been into so my strength is doing well, I am experiencing plenty of other sides including water retention and more acne than usual, no more gyno symptoms though. I don't have a problem with any of the other sides just as long as there is no gyno. I am not using much of the armidex either lately at all, maybe like 1 mg/week if that. I am pretty sure that it was all the Anadrol & D-bol I was taking along with the high doses of test that caused me to see such sides. I am no longer taking the orals though and it seems to be all good.


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## Mudge (Jun 29, 2003)

Adrol and Dbol at the same time? Water retention in a generic sense = strength. Fina though is known for strength but not much on the bloated side, since it actually "burns fat."


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