# Gaining strength but not size



## mattskaien (Feb 15, 2010)

I first posted this in the newbie forum but didn't get any response. So ill try here as i'm speculating but not all together sure that its both how i'm training and my diet.  


Hey guys so im new to the forum my name is Matt and yes im from Canada. Id say im pretty new to the gym scene aswell. Only been going for about a year now. Im 21 years old and currently go to school fulltime. School is also where I go to train.

Ive been trolling around this site for about a week now and have posted a couple times and after reading a little bit I went over to fitday and started looking up the nutritional info for all the food I eat. My results were on average in a day I consume 

3,857 Calories (Almost 2000 from Gainer+Protein I take twice daily)
100grams of Fat
545grams of Carbs
211grams of Protein 

My training is

Day 1: Shoulders and Back
Shoulder Press 
Wide Grip Pull up
Upright Rows (Bar to chin)
Machine Lat Pulldowns
Seated Laterals Raises
Seated Rows
Bent over (seated) Lateral Raises
Olympic bar Rows
Shrugs

Day 2: Chest

Incline/Decline/Flat Bench
Flat Dumbbell Fys
Flat Dumbbell Press
Cable Flys (Lower Chest)
Cable Flys (Upper Chest)
Machine Press
Machine Flys

Day 3: Arms

Incline/Decline/Flate Close grip benchpress
Hammer Curl
Skull Crushers
Preacher Curl Dumbbells
Machine Tricept pushdowns
Olympic Bar Bicep curl
Dips
EZ Bar Curls
Seated behind head tricep extention 

Day 4: Legs+ Abs

Squats
Leg Press
Leg Extentions
Calf Raises
Decline Situps
Ab/core Machine
Bike 30 min

Day 5: Rest

Day 6: Do it again

Oh and also after every set I pick up something 2/3 the weight and do the same movement untill failure. (Drop sets)

So im 5'9 150lbs and cant put on size. Im pretty strong for my size but training seems to be going to strength rather then mass. So what is it? More food? (Cal) Different way of training??


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## mattskaien (Feb 15, 2010)

Also taking Black powder for pre, and xpand for post creatine.


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## DaMayor (Feb 15, 2010)

Eat=grow.


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## T_man (Feb 15, 2010)

^ what he said.

Furthermore your routine looks like too much volume, you should read the stickies in the training section.


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## pitman (Feb 15, 2010)

DaMayor said:


> Eat=grow.


 yea what they said, just ask mr robert...


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## Merkaba (Feb 15, 2010)

I agree thats alot of volume and eat about 500 calories a day more and see where that takes you.  and... ...lol...where's the leg workout?


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## DaMayor (Feb 15, 2010)

Merkaba said:


> I agree thats alot of volume and eat about 500 calories a day more and see where that takes you.  and... ...lol...where's the leg workout?



Leg  workout? You're supposed to work your legs too?


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## PushAndPull (Feb 15, 2010)

No deadlifts.
Way too many repeated exercises?
Flat Dumbbell Flys
Cable Flys (Lower Chest)
Cable Flys (Upper Chest)
Machine Flys


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## mattskaien (Feb 15, 2010)

Hmm I have alot of volume in my workouts because I want to make sure im pumped up good before I leave. I just dont get tired so I just do more sets or more exercises. The caffeine in the black powder doesnt help. Maybe I should just go heavier till im tired right out.


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## Energy (Feb 16, 2010)

> Maybe I should just go heavier till im tired right out.



Good advice. Don't make the mistake of "more is better" or confuse a good pump/burn for a good workout.


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## Perdido (Feb 16, 2010)

Energy said:


> Good advice. Don't make the mistake of "more is better" or confuse a good pump/burn for a good workout.



Ditto. All of that volume is burning up calories that should be adding mass.


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## cc-10 (Feb 16, 2010)

looks like your overtraining. Add deadlifts to your routing.


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## pitman (Feb 16, 2010)

add the weights to the workout brother !!!!


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## mattskaien (Feb 16, 2010)

Like go heavy for like 4-5 reps? Should I still drop set? I have for so long its a habbit


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## mattskaien (Feb 16, 2010)

rahaas said:


> Ditto. All of that volume is burning up calories that should be adding mass.



Is this true? Im not in the gym that long, probably like 1h15min to 1h30min. How long should I be resting in between sets? Im currently average about 1min to 1min30sec


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## Spaullba (Feb 16, 2010)

Limit your workouts to no more than 6 exercises per (and even that is kind of a lot). I would be very surprised if you were only in the gym for an hour and 15 minutes while doing 9 different exercises. That would indicate to me that you aren't hitting each one as hard as you could. 

Do fewer exercises, focus on no nonsense compound movements and hit them hard. I would consider splitting your chest workout in two and replacing the arms workout with it. Dedicating a whole day to arms and doing 3-4 bicep exercises and 3-4 tricep exercises seems silly to me. Create two chest workouts with 4-6 exercises in each, have one of those workouts have *one* tricep specific exercise and the other have *one* bicep specific exercise (perhaps dips and pull-ups), the other exercises should be "big" compound chest movements. Don't mess around with flys and machine press, hit bb bench, db bench, bb incline, db incline, decline, close-grip, widegrip etc. Those workouts will not only hit your chest but your bis and tris as well. Don't repeat exercises on the two chest days, if you do bb bench, bb incline and bb widegrip one day, do db bench, close-grip and decline bench the other.

I do six exercises on my upper body days, with pretty long rest intervals (two minutes for bigger movements, alittle over a minute for smaller movements) and I get done in about 1-1.5 hours. The real rigid people here will tell you not to be in the gym for more than 45-60 minutes. I find that impossible sometimes, and I get great results by being in there slightly longer, but for alot of people shortening workouts probably works for them, and if you are having trouble gaining weight it will likely be beneficial.

Honestly eating more would fix your problems regardless probably. Get close to 4,500 calories a day and I do not see how you could not gain size.


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## mattskaien (Feb 16, 2010)

You got that right sir.


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## danzik17 (Feb 16, 2010)

Post your diet.  I'll bet you're eating less than you think.


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## mattskaien (Feb 25, 2010)

Ok update. I changed a few things in my workout and now incorporate dead lifts on the appropriate day.

Day 1: Shoulders and Back

Shoulder Press or Military press
Wide Grip Pull up
Upright Rows (Bar to chin)
Lat Pulldowns
Seated Laterals Raises
Deadlifts
Olympic bar Rows
Shrugs

Day 2: Chest

Flat/Incline/Decline Bench
Flat/Incline/Decline Dumbbell Fys
Flat/Incline/Decline Dumbbell Press
Machine Flys

Day 3: Arms

Incline/Decline/Flate Close grip benchpress
Hammer Curl
Skull Crushers
Preacher Curl Dumbbells
Machine Tricept pushdowns
Olympic Bar Bicep curl
Dips (weighted)

Day 4: Legs+ Abs

Squats
Leg Press
Leg Extentions
Calf Raises
Decline Situps
Ab/core Machine
Bike 30 min


Also looked at my diet and as expected it is lower then I thought

Yesterday I ate

Granola with rasberries and 2% milk
Chicken Quesidilla
Fruit smoothie with a scoop a whey
3 pieces of pizza
Protein shake with a shot of EVOO
3table spoons of peanut butter
Glass of 2% chocolate milk

for a total of 
4,092 Cals
160.8gr of fat
511gr Carbs
175.8gr protein

I am speculating that I need to add more food to make up for the almost 1400 cal from the gainer/protein/EVOO shake. I do tend to pack alot of Cal right before I go to bed so i dont starve so bad throughout the night. But its usually the protein shake/peanut butter. Should I try something more solid before bed?


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## DaMayor (Feb 25, 2010)

Okay, let me get this straight....you're trying to *GAIN MASS*?

Dude, listen to the previous posts. More is NOT always better, unless more=eating, as in your case. Drop *all* of that stuff. Get with Gaz or Cowpimp or Built...Hell, ANYBODY to get you started on basic, heavy, compound movements....split those routines up so you can recover and GROW in between, and eat Boy..EAT.

You must be a freakin' gym rabbit or something, lol! 


Why don't these children listen?


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## pitman (Feb 25, 2010)

DaMayor said:


> Okay, let me get this straight....you're trying to *GAIN MASS*?
> 
> Dude, listen to the previous posts. More is NOT always better, unless more=eating, as in your case. Drop *all* of that stuff. Get with Gaz or Cowpimp or Built...Hell, ANYBODY to get you started on basic, heavy, compound movements....split those routines up so you can recover and GROW in between, and eat Boy..EAT.
> 
> ...


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## jmorrison (Feb 25, 2010)

You are getting great advice bro.  Gaining mass is actually pretty easy.

Eat + Sleep + Heavy Compounds = Grow.


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## mattskaien (Feb 25, 2010)

Ok so 3 exercises per muscle group is to much? I cant go any heavier. Im not trying to be rude or anything but I just cant believe im gonna unlock the door to my size gains by lowering my volume in my workouts further. I am preforming major compound movements...


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## Built (Feb 25, 2010)

Lower your training volume and lift heavier shit in lower rep ranges. 

You need a big muscle to lift a heavy weight a few times. You need arms like a twelve year old girl to lift light weights over and over again. 

I'm glad you're here.


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## mattskaien (Feb 25, 2010)

Day 1: Shoulders and Back

Shoulder Press or Military press
Wide Grip Pullups (weighted)
Upright Rows (Bar to chin)
Lat Pulldowns
Seated Laterals Raises
Deadlifts
Shrugs

Day 2: Chest

Flat/Incline/Decline Bench -choose one
Flat/Incline/Decline Dumbbell Fys -choose one
Flat/Incline/Decline Dumbbell Press -choose one

Day 3: Arms

Incline/Decline/Flate Close grip benchpress
Hammer Curl
Preacher Curl Dumbbells
Machine Tricept pushdowns
Dips (weighted)

Day 4: Legs+ Abs

Squats
Leg Press
Leg Extentions
Calf Raises
Decline Situps
Ab/core Machine

Is this better??? Honestly even this doesnt feel like its enough. 

All my exercises my reps are no more than 6 and doing 3 sets. Tomorrow I have a chest day Im gonna try

Decline Bench 
225x2
205x5
205x5

Incline Fly
35x6
40x4
40x4

Flat DB press 
140x5
135x5
135x5

Should I work up in weight in an exercise or down? Also should I be doing 3 sets or 4?? Also should I bench twice in the same day? ie. Incline and flat bench vs incline fly and flat bench?


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## Built (Feb 26, 2010)

For which type of pressing do you feel the most pec activation - flat or incline?
Also, what is your heaviest deadlift, and what is your heaviest below-parallel barbell squat for 5-rep sets?

How is your symmetry - are your legs bigger than your upper, or the other way around?


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## Built (Feb 26, 2010)

For which type of pressing do you feel the most pec activation - flat or incline?
Also, what is your heaviest deadlift, and what is your heaviest below-parallel barbell squat for 5-rep sets?

How is your symmetry - are your legs bigger than your upper, or the other way around?


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## T_man (Feb 26, 2010)

mattskaien said:


> Yesterday I ate
> 
> Granola with rasberries and 2% milk
> Chicken Quesidilla
> ...



Where did 511 grams of carbs come from?? I honestly cant see.

I'll give you a sample workout (mine) that you can maybe get some exercises from and see what sort of things you might want to do:

Monday: Upper push
Bench/Incline bench alternating - 3 x 6-8
Weighted Dips - 3 x 6-8
Cable crossovers/Scoops alternating - 3 x 8-10
Military Press/Arnold press alternating - 3 x 6-8

Tuesday: Quad dominant
Squats/Box squats alternating - 3 x 6
Hack Squats/Leg Press alternating - 3 x 8
Wide stance Front squat/Lunges alternating - 3 x 8
Calf raises - 3 x 8-failure followed by bodyweight calf raises to failure

Wednesday : Rest

Thursday: Upper Pull
Rack Pull/Deadlift alternating - 3 x 6-8
Pullups 3 x 7-failure
T-bar rows/Seated rows alternating - 3 x 6-8
Hang Clean - 3 x 6

Friday: Ham dominant
Glute Ham raises - 3 x 6-8
Stiff-leg deadlift/Wide stance sumo deadlift alternating - 3 x 6
Leg Curls - 3 x 8-10
Calf Raises - 3 x 8-failure heavy followed by bodyweight calf raises to failure


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## mattskaien (Feb 26, 2010)

Hey Built,

For the pressing movements I definitely feel more activation during flat or decline. 
As far as my squats and deadlifts go, strengthwise I cant lift a ton but Im making progress

Squats
155x5
155x5
145x5

Deadlifts (straightleg)

140x5
140x5
135x5

As for symmetry Im pretty even, My upper body maybe slightly bigger.


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## mattskaien (Feb 26, 2010)

T_man said:


> Where did 511 grams of carbs come from?? I honestly cant see.



Here is the majors (Carbs)

Protein -152
Smoothie -104
Granola -80
Pizza -78

Also thanks for the workout!!


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## T_man (Feb 26, 2010)

mattskaien said:


> Here is the majors (Carbs)
> 
> Protein -152
> Smoothie -104
> ...



That comes to just about 400. Your protein shake is a mass gainer right? What time do you take them? I would take them only first thing in the morning or after a workout due to the amount of sugars. I piled on alot of fat with a weight gainer because i'd take it at any time of the day despit its 100g carbs per serving.


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## mattskaien (Feb 26, 2010)

So I just did my Fitday log for yesterday and I did pretty good.

Granola with rasberries and 2% milk
Chicken Quesidilla
Fruit smoothie with a scoop a whey
4 Tablespoons of peanutbutter
Protein shake with a shot of EVOO
Steak with mashed potatoes and broccoli

Before bed
Glass of 2% chocolate milk
Protein shake with a shot of EVOO

Apparently this is a 5446 calorie day according to fitday. I did all the measurements of my food as close as I could.
215gr of fat 
681 carbs
223 protein 
Thats seems like alot of fat and just alot in general. 
2500ish cal from 2 protein/evoo shakes


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## mattskaien (Feb 26, 2010)

T_man said:


> That comes to just about 400. Your protein shake is a mass gainer right? What time do you take them? I would take them only first thing in the morning or after a workout due to the amount of sugars. I piled on alot of fat with a weight gainer because i'd take it at any time of the day despit its 100g carbs per serving.



I take it whenever Im close to the giant bucket or when I have room in my stomach. JK After a workout and before bed usually. Sometimes first thing in the morning though. Yes it is a mass gainer. My body fat is so low that im not worried at this point about gaining any. Ive never been fat only skinny lol


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## Built (Feb 26, 2010)

Okay cool - you got fitdayed up and you posted your lifts.

Your legs are lagging. I outsquat you and I'm a middle-aged chick with injuries. You need more leg work than one day a week. You need to be working legs every second workout, or more. Use the workout T-man posted, it'll help you a lot. Work those squats and especially deads. You'll see why inside of six months - your whole body will grow from these and the calories.

Your fats are fine. I eat a lot of fat too. Good healthy and easy calories.


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## mattskaien (Feb 26, 2010)

Good news! I did 225 6 times today instead of 2. My friends think its funny that I weigh 150lbs and I can double plate  Also DB pressed more and went up 5lbs on my flys. My question now is should I completely switch over to that other workout posted, or can I continue my current workout and add a ton more legs? Squats deadlifts ect. Is it neccesary to switch to the push pull squat workout to get best growth gains? I ask because I like my current routine but If its hindering my growth then I will change.


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## Built (Feb 26, 2010)

You asked, we told you what we felt was the best advice for your goals.


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## danzik17 (Feb 26, 2010)

mattskaien said:


> Good news! I did 225 6 times today instead of 2. My friends think its funny that I weigh 150lbs and I can double plate  Also DB pressed more and went up 5lbs on my flys. My question now is should I completely switch over to that other workout posted, or can I continue my current workout and add a ton more legs? Squats deadlifts ect. Is it neccesary to switch to the push pull squat workout to get best growth gains? I ask because I like my current routine but If its hindering my growth then I will change.



Use the other routine.  You have too much volume on the upper body, not enough on the lower body.  An entire day devoted to arms is a day wasted.


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## jmorrison (Feb 26, 2010)

I dont have anything to add, as I am not an expert by any means on training, but I will say this:  It is nice seeing a 21 year old that is listening.  There are some extremely knowledgeable people on this site, that gladly give out advice for free, that many people would pay for, and in my time spent here I have seen 1 reoccurring theme.

Those that listen and learn succeed in their goals, those that ignore the advice here and do their own things inevitably dissapear, or come back in 6 months after making no progress and asking for help.

Good luck!


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## mattskaien (Feb 27, 2010)

Built said:


> You asked, we told you what we felt was the best advice for your goals.



Fair enough, thanks, new workout plan it is.


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## mattskaien (Feb 28, 2010)

Is it feasible for me to gain 10lbs and be up to 160 for my birthday April 1st? Im trying to average 5000cal a day. Anything else I need to know?


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## Archangel. (Feb 28, 2010)

mattskaien said:


> I first posted this in the newbie forum but didn't get any response. So ill try here as i'm speculating but not all together sure that its both how i'm training and my diet.
> 
> 
> Hey guys so im new to the forum my name is Matt and yes im from Canada. Id say im pretty new to the gym scene aswell. Only been going for about a year now. Im 21 years old and currently go to school fulltime. School is also where I go to train.
> ...




The amount of cals you're consuming is sufficient, but it's the form that you are taking them all in that is not great. Cut way back on your gainer and replace it with whole foods i.e. chicken, steak, veg, fruit, oatmeal etc.

secondly, I believe you are seriously overtraining yourself. Choose three exercises for larger body parts i.e. chest, back, legs, and two for smaller body parts i.e. bi's tri's, delts. Do no more than 3-4 sets at between 6-10 reps. Choose compound exercises like bench for chest, and deadlift and rows for back.

Also, workout a schedule so you are only working each body part once a week, and you are doing no more than 4 actual workouts a week.

Hope this helps


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## jmorrison (Feb 28, 2010)

mattskaien said:


> Is it feasible for me to gain 10lbs and be up to 160 for my birthday April 1st? Im trying to average 5000cal a day. Anything else I need to know?



Depending on your current body composition it is possible.  If you have been training for a while it would be very difficult, but if you are relatively new to heavy resistance training it is very possible.


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## T_man (Feb 28, 2010)

mattskaien said:


> Is it feasible for me to gain 10lbs and be up to 160 for my birthday April 1st? Im trying to average 5000cal a day. Anything else I need to know?



At 2.5lbs a week, if you do, it's not going to be all muscle.


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## mattskaien (Feb 28, 2010)

Archangel. said:


> I believe you are seriously overtraining yourself.



I changed my routine, im now doing the push pull squat workout modified at little bit.


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## mattskaien (Feb 28, 2010)

T_man said:


> At 2.5lbs a week, if you do, it's not going to be all muscle.



Hmm, if I can actually gain a little fat it wouldnt be bad really.


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## JayCutler (Mar 1, 2010)

mattskaien said:


> I first posted this in the newbie forum but didn't get any response. So ill try here as i'm speculating but not all together sure that its both how i'm training and my diet.
> 
> 
> Hey guys so im new to the forum my name is Matt and yes im from Canada. Id say im pretty new to the gym scene aswell. Only been going for about a year now. Im 21 years old and currently go to school fulltime. School is also where I go to train.
> ...


 
there is ur problem, majority of your calories are from gainers.

you need WHOLE FOOD.  whole food is more anabolic and anti-catabolic.

you gotta carry food with you, beef jerky in your backback, some natural peanut butter.

make sure you are getting tons of veggies too, you need that fiber it helps with digestion.  don't make beginner mistakes it happens.


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## mattskaien (Mar 1, 2010)

Ok clearly no one looks at any post but the first, I am eating more whole foods and no longer on the initial workout.


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## Built (Mar 1, 2010)

We know. JayC doesn't know but the rest of us do. 

How you feeling - you're gaining now aren't you?


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## mattskaien (Mar 2, 2010)

Slowly I think.


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## jmorrison (Mar 2, 2010)

That's the best way to do it.


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