# Debbie Bramwell. . . The Power and the Passion!



## Arnold (May 5, 2010)

*Debbie Bramwell. . .  The Power and the Passion!   * 
by Leigh Penman                                         
*
With  this year's IFBB New York Pro just days away I thought  it was time I finally  caught up with one of the sports favorite female  bodybuilders, Debbie Bramwell.  Currently on view In  the Iron Asylum , Debbie has made significant  improvements to her  physique since the last time we saw her *




*on stage and  conventional wisdom says  she should place very highly come May  8th.  While I will  leave the  predictions to the more qualified experts, I will dare to say  that, in my humble  opinion, Debbie will crack the top 5!*
*Debbie  is one of those women who always has a smile on her  face and something positive  to say about life...an attitude that, along  with her impressive physique, has  taken her a long way in the sport  and left an impression on the hearts of many.  So just how did she find  herself involved in the sport of bodybuilding and was  she always so  confident and positive?*
*The  time had arrived to find out more about the power and  the passion that drives  Debbie Bramwell towards achieving her goals.  But first, let's take a little time  out to do a quick background  check...*


*So  Debbie...I have read that sports were a big part of your  life when you were  growing up, can you tell us a little about that? *
 "I  was very athletic growing up. I basically tried everything but  liked Softball,  track and volleyball the best. I also remember as a  child excelling in fitness  tests - which goes to show genetics play a  huge part in our athletic abilities  and in the building of an  exceptional physique."

* What  do you think your involvement in athletic pursuits did  for you on an emotional  level? *
 "When  I was young playing sports was something I enjoyed doing. I  think it is a  positive way to spend your time. However, on an emotional  level, the change  really came as a result of my work in the area of  personal growth and  development. When I trained my mind to think  differently my world changed. The  power of the mind is everything. It  can make or break  you."

* Can  you remember when you were first exposed to  bodybuilding and was this the moment  you also decided to become  involved in the sport? *
 "I  saw my first bodybuilding magazine at my ex's house and thought  it was  fascinating. He took me to my first bodybuilding show but at  that time I never  imagined getting on stage. It wasn't until much later  and being talked into it  (over and over... lol!) that I decided to do a  show."

*In  your opinion, what type of person is attracted to  bodybuilding? *




 "People  who are driven, focused and love to be challenged. This  sport attracts  perfectionists and motivated goal setters. It embraces  people who aren't afraid  to be different and, of course, people who  love to  train..."

* Do  you think that for some the sport of bodybuilding is  almost a ‘healing tool' for  certain emotional challenges? *
 "I  have heard many stories about how bodybuilding has made a  positive impact on the  lives of those who choose to become involved in  it. So, with that in mind, I  would definitely say it could be  considered as a healing tool."

* In  your own case, and now that you have been involved in  the sport for many years,  what do you feel you were looking to gain  from becoming a bodybuilder on a  mental level? *
 "I  love to be challenged and set personal goals. I reprogrammed my  mind doing  personal growth work and that's where my personal power  comes from.  Bodybuilding helped me build my physique but I believe the  mental part comes  from all the work I have done which has ranged from  books and seminars to videos  and CD programs".




*I  believe that your greatest source  of inspiration when it came to taking it to  the competitive level was  the Tony Robbins ‘Personal Power' program....how did  that impact your  life? *
 "I  have always been into personal growth work and have read book  after book and  attended many seminars to improve myself on  emotional/mental and spiritual  levels. I did the Tony Robbins 30 day  program in 1996 and totally reprogrammed  my mind. I decided to enter my  first show to conquer my fear of being up in  front of people and to  improve physically. It wasn't even about being a  bodybuilder it was  more about stepping out of my comfort zone and setting a  personal  goal."

* Turning  from the emotional/spiritual to the physical...how  easy was it for you to gain  muscle in the early days?*
 "I  have to say that I am one of the lucky ones...I put on muscle  pretty easily. I was  also lucky to meet the right people to help guide  me with proper eating and  proper training technique. I had little  biceps from day one!  I have to say that  genetics do play a huge role  in a bodybuilder's success..."

* What  were your weakest body parts back then and how did you  go about improving them? *
 "I  would say back and legs. I really didn't like training legs for a  long time  because, let's face it, it is HARD work! That being said, I  actually love  training legs now. I prefer to have a training partner  push me further and that  allows me to use more weight. I have always  believed in full range of motion for  legs. I see many people doing half  reps which aren't going to help build good  legs.
 "As  for my back, it took a while for me to learn how to feel my  muscles work  during back training but now I would say it is my favorite  musclegroup  to train. There's nothing like a good  back pump! I will admit that it is still  the body part I need to work  on in but it has improved. I have short arms so it  is more of a  struggle to build. I focus on stretching it out as well as  contracting  it for each rep. I have a new training partner and gym coach now and  we  are doing things I have never done before so I expect my back to be  much  better this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




year."

* How  do you split up your body during the course of an  off-season training  week?*
 "Last  off season I decided to train 4 days a week using the  following  split:
 Monday:  chest/bis
 Tuesday:  legs
 Thursday:  shoulders/tris
 Friday:  back

* Do  you favor heavy/low rep or higher rep work?*
 "I am now doing a  keto diet and use heavier weight for lower  reps.  When I was on higher carbs I did higher reps."

* In  terms of diet, how do you break up your macro-nutrients  and what supplements do  you add? *
 "I  am following Dave's keto diet (which you can find on his RX  thread) I am  currently on a 3 days no fat/ 1 day fat rotation. In terms  of supplements I use  ‘Isolyze' (whey isolate), ‘Somalyze' (nighttime  fat burner), ‘Lipolyze' (daytime  fat burner), ‘Omegalyze' (essential  fatty acids), ‘Fiberlyze' (dual fiber  supplement), ‘Arthrolyze' (joint  repair)-- all from Species Nutrition; Juice  Plus+ (fruit and vegetable  extracts), Calcium/magnesium, and a  multi-vitamin."




*Going  into the NY Pro....it is a  pretty tough line up this year....do you feel this  intimidating on any  level or does it inspire you even more? *
 "I  am fired up and believe I will do well in NY. I am only worried  about me and  what I bring to that stage. I am very happy with how I  look... so look for me in  that first call out!"
* What  sort of mental approach to you take with you into a  competition? *
 "I  believe my mental outlook is my strong point. I am very positive  and always have  a good mindset. I love prep time and working hard so  when I show up in NY I will  be ready to have fun! I visualize the end  result 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




and_ feel_ my success before I get  there.   However, above all else, I always enjoy  the journey which is  the most important part; the rest is the icing on the cake  for me."
* In  your own personal experience what would you say is the  greatest gift you have  received from your participation in the sport?*
 "I could think of so many great gifts  bodybuilding has given me but  the most important one is the people I have met.  This sport has lined  me up with many incredible people. The most important one  being my  husband. We met in Vegas at the USA show and have now been happily   married one year."

*Finally...how  can people contact you? *
* debramwell@hotmail.com

http://www.rxmuscle.com/the-women/1396-debbie-bramwell---the-power-and-the-passion.html
*


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## Arnold (May 5, 2010)

I posted this because I think her physique is amazing and she is still hot! (I don't normally like the look of a female bodybuilder this big)


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## CORUM (May 5, 2010)

i think she looks like a guy!!! she has the facial features of a man, maybe too much HGH or something


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## sassy69 (May 5, 2010)

CORUM said:


> i think she looks like a guy!!! she has the facial features of a man, maybe too much HGH or something



That's just ignorant.


Debbie has fantastic genetics and is so well proportioned. On season & off she looks fantastic. And speaking personally, she is such a nice and positive person.


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## NeilPearson (May 5, 2010)

sassy69 said:


> That's just ignorant.
> 
> 
> Debbie has fantastic genetics and is so well proportioned. On season & off she looks fantastic. And speaking personally, she is such a nice and positive person.



I'm sure she is very nice... but I wouldn't date her.

I can appreciate the work she must put into it but saying she looks fantastic...  I think the only person that would agree with that is other competitors.  She is built, strong, cut, all that... but she isn't hot at all


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## sassy69 (May 5, 2010)

nevermind


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## Kathybird (May 5, 2010)

I think she looks great, but I can see where people would say she looks a little different.  Her muscles do look a little larger on average than your typical female bb... OK, not that I've seen 10 million women bbs.  But others look a little more... delicate? ... than her.  Is she tall?

Edit:  ... which leads me to the question... would a woman who's naturally built a bit more solid than her counterparts have a leg up in competition?


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## NeilPearson (May 5, 2010)

sassy69 said:


> nevermind



I understand your point of view... it's just A LOT of men find skinny fat girls a lot more attractive than strong, cut girls.

Some guys think any definition at all is a turn off.

Now they could just have bad taste but I do think it is the general populations preferance.


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## Kathybird (May 5, 2010)

Men are genetically programmed to like women with some fat... a certain amount of body fat leads to the belief that the particular woman is an optimal candidate for childbearing.


.... or so I've heard.


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## sassy69 (May 5, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> I understand your point of view... it's just A LOT of men find skinny fat girls a lot more attractive than strong, cut girls.
> 
> Some guys think any definition at all is a turn off.
> 
> Now they could just have bad taste but I do think it is the general populations preferance.



I appreciate your response.

What drives me nuts tho, is that she's a pro-level competitor in a sport that many of us here at least set as the pinnacle of bodybuilding, but as a female, the only response is whether or not she's fuckable. 

When I watch a pro basketball game, I don't decide who I want to win by who has the most fuckable center. When I watch the men's BB, I don't look to see who is the most fuckable. 

Just kinda drives me nuts.

Frankly I can't think of a male BB who is as balanced as Debbie is - she's got full muscle bellies and balance all the way around. 

Kathy - Debbie is small - I'm thinking like 5'1"-5'2" Many short competitors (men & women) can tend to be more blocky than proportional, so she just carries her mass very well.


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## NeilPearson (May 5, 2010)

sassy69 said:


> I appreciate your response.
> 
> What drives me nuts tho, is that she's a pro-level competitor in a sport that many of us here at least set as the pinnacle of bodybuilding, but as a female, the only response is whether or not she's fuckable.
> 
> ...



Yeah but as men whenever we talk about a girl it comes down to how fuckable they are.

It doesn't matter if they are a female body builder, Olympic beach vollyball player, actress, comedian or even a politician...  If you talk about ANY girl, guys will tell you if she is hot or not.  That is just how guys are.  We don't discriminate against body builders.

When that sport is the kind of sport that is judged by the way the person looks, do you really expect more from men?


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## sassy69 (May 5, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> Yeah but as men whenever we talk about a girl it comes down to how fuckable they are.
> 
> It doesn't matter if they are a female body builder, Olympic beach vollyball player, actress, comedian or even a politician...  If you talk about ANY girl, guys will tell you if she is hot or not.  *That is just how guys are*.  We don't discriminate against body builders.
> 
> When that sport is the kind of sport that is judged by the way the person looks, do you really expect more from men?



i got nuttin to even respond w/.


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## Arnold (May 5, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> Yeah but as men whenever we talk about a girl it comes down to how fuckable they are.



that is pretty shallow.


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## NeilPearson (May 5, 2010)

Prince said:


> that is pretty shallow.



I never denied that


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## NeilPearson (May 5, 2010)

I would bet that if you put up a picture of ANY female (with or without a story), you will get comments on whether guys would hit it or not.

She doesn't have to even be a real person.  She could be a drawing... or 100 years old or even dead.

I actually don't think it would have to be human.


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## FindingMyWay (May 5, 2010)

sassy69 said:


> That's just ignorant.
> 
> 
> Debbie has fantastic genetics and is so well proportioned. On season & off she looks fantastic. And speaking personally, she is such a nice and positive person.


 


sassy69 said:


> I appreciate your response.
> 
> What drives me nuts tho, is that she's a pro-level competitor in a sport that many of us here at least set as the pinnacle of bodybuilding, but as a female, the only response is whether or not she's fuckable.
> 
> ...


 

I agree with sassy.  I'm so sick of seeing this crap on BB forums.  Men and women work equally hard at this sport and all the women get for their efforts on these boards is "I wouldn't date her."

Who cares if any of you would date her or not?  What's that got to do with anything?  She wouldn't date you either.


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## Curt James (May 5, 2010)

CORUM said:


> i think she looks like a guy!!! she has the facial features of a man, maybe too much HGH or something



Maybe I'm old school (as well as just plain old), but can we comment _while remaining respectful_ towards the ladies?


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## Curt James (May 5, 2010)

Just to underline things, perhaps a copy/paste to *Anything Goes* and _then _make the rude comments.

I'm hitting the gym and think about deleting 90% of the comments in this thread. 
I mean why have *POWER *if you can't _abuse it?_

Open and uncensored dialogue is important, however respect is critical as well. 
*Anything Goes* is the _better _place for some of this. 

The whole "I'd hit it" or "Looks like a man" is tired and worn out for discussion, imo.


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## Kathybird (May 5, 2010)

How about moving the thread to anything goes?  Solves the problem.

GICH!!


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## Curt James (May 5, 2010)

^I thought about that, but Debbie Bramwell deserves better than to serve as target practice.


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## Curt James (May 5, 2010)

Kathybird said:


> I think she looks great, but I can see where people would say she looks a little different.  Her muscles do look a little larger on average than your typical female bb... OK, not that I've seen 10 million women bbs.  But others look a little more... delicate? ... than her. * Is she tall?*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



5'2 _1/2_" according to Bramwell's site. 

*DEBBIE BRAMWELL - IFBB PRO Bodybuilder - About Me
*


sassy69 said:


> When I watch the men's BB, I don't  look to see who is the most fuckable.



_Sooooo_, Kobe or LeBron?








NeilPearson said:


> the general population



"_@#$% _the general population."
 ???Hardcore BBing Fan


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## Kathybird (May 5, 2010)

eh.  both too tall for me.  Go shorter.


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## Curt James (May 5, 2010)

^Spud Webb?

Do him or _no _do him? 






Spud's height is listed as 5'6". And he could dunk!






YouTube Video


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## Merkaba (May 5, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> I would bet that if you put up a picture of ANY female (with or without a story), you will get comments on whether guys would hit it or not.
> 
> She doesn't have to even be a real person.  She could be a drawing... or 100 years old or even dead.
> 
> I actually don't think it would have to be human.



I'd hit it!  

And hell yea, I'd love to bang an alien...  No a REAL alien!


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## Merkaba (May 5, 2010)

sassy69 said:


> I appreciate your response.
> 
> What drives me nuts tho, is that she's a pro-level competitor in a sport that many of us here at least set as the pinnacle of bodybuilding, but as a female, the only response is whether or not she's fuckable.
> 
> ...



I just had this conversation the other day, and I truly believe that, for the majority of us, we are like someone else said.  Everything is judged on some sexual element.  Now hopefully a man can move past this. But I truly believe it's in our nature.  And I agree most women don't think about sex when they see a guy here or there.  But 9 out of 10 guys think about sex with just about every girl they meet.  We look at asses, chest.  There is no way around it.  And we look because we are thinking about one thing.  The female is the opposite frame of mind and this is why we are yin and yang and why we are meant to blend in order to become better.  But I still think a males genetics is to trying to spread his seed.  This is why men and women are a 50% toss up to stay together after a marriage.  We're not supposed to stay together forever, in a utopian society.  

Just my two cents


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## Gazhole (May 6, 2010)

Really long biceps, they look like they end halfway into her pecs! Awesome.


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## cheappinz (May 9, 2010)

how pathetic..she is very pretty.  I think for her lifestyle and what SHE wants, she looks great.  I'd personally stay a bit smaller and more fitness model, but that is a personal preference and nothing anyone else has a right to decide.  She does NOT look like a man and she looks prettier than most of the women any of the douche bags putting her down would ever get a chance to be with..they are just saying hurtful things because they know the girl has a better physique than them and is prettier than a girl they could ever get.  
People are mean.  Quit being such haters..


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## ArnoldsProtege (May 9, 2010)

Though I would not put it so...aherm..bluntly, I do not find her physique attractive at all, even in a non sexual way. 

I respect her for her dedication and passion for body building; she is in better shape then the majority of the population. I guess that is what bodybuilding has become, but she has such a masculine body that has undoubtedly been achieved through steroids, as well as a rigourous training and diet regimen. I have seen some women that are in incredible shape AND maintain a beautiful, feminine physique. The first picture with her in a dress is just bizarre. Even her hands are like a mans.

Before I get flamed, I really do respect her, and I feel the same way about male bodybuilders who are roided up as well. Ronnie Coleman, Jay Cutler; they are all repulsive IMO, and indicators of our times of doing it bigger, faster, better, and always trying to push it. Aesthetically, it is gross, and that is what I think when I see her pictures (and most outside the bodybuilding community would think).


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## Curt James (May 9, 2010)

ArnoldsProtege said:


> Though I would not put it so...aherm..bluntly, *I do not find her physique attractive at all, even in a non sexual way. *
> 
> I respect her for her dedication and passion for body building; she is in better shape then the majority of the population. I guess that is what bodybuilding has become, but *she has such a masculine body* that has undoubtedly been achieved through steroids, as well as a rigourous training and diet regimen. I have seen some women that are in incredible shape AND maintain a beautiful, feminine physique. *The first picture with her in a dress is just bizarre. Even her hands are like a mans.*
> 
> Before I get flamed, I really do respect her, and I feel the same way about male bodybuilders who are roided up as well. Ronnie Coleman, Jay Cutler; they are all repulsive IMO, and indicators of our times of doing it bigger, faster, better, and always trying to push it. *Aesthetically, it is gross*, and that is what I think when I see her pictures (and most outside the bodybuilding community would think).



So how would you have commented if you _didn't_ possess respect for her?


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## ArnoldsProtege (May 13, 2010)

It is one thing to respect, it is another to be frank. I respect the obvious dedication and hard work she put's in to body building. I can also respectfully find her unattractive as a woman, and to not like her body. It is obvious that she has heavily used steroids, and while I am sure she is a positive and glowing person, her physique is completely unappealing to myself and many other men and women outside of BB, I am sure.


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## Road Warrior (May 13, 2010)

Agreed


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## Kathybird (May 13, 2010)

Interesting.

a. I'm not into basketball players.  I dunno, maybe my cluelessness about the game influences my preferences?  Now baseball, 'nother story.  
b. Sassy, when you mentioned her height, it kind of clicked for me.  I'm 5'1 and my father's side is blocky like that.  Stocky Irish the lot of us.  
c. I'm intrigued by the response about what women's bodies do when steroids are introduced.


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## Perdido (May 14, 2010)

Prince said:


> I posted this because I think her physique is amazing



I agree and it's very obvious she's worked very hard to get at the elite level she's attained! I wish her the best.


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## theCaptn' (May 14, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> I understand your point of view... it's just A LOT of men find skinny fat girls a lot more attractive than strong, cut girls.
> 
> Some guys think any definition at all is a turn off.
> 
> Now they could just have bad taste but I do think it is the general populations preferance.


 
most Men would be too intimidated and way out of the league dating such an Amazonian Beauty . .  but not the Captn'  . .


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## cheappinz (May 18, 2010)

really?  wow.  I'd agree she's a bit past the fitness model physique but I definitely wouldn't be dogging her.  I'm impressed, knowing the time and effort it takes.  I like the look of a muscular barbie better, but to each their own.  She has a pretty face.  No amount of exercising fixes ugly.


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## heavyiron (Jun 1, 2010)

She looks awesome and is probably one of the nicest pros out there. Super positive and helpful all the time. I love Debbie.


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## American Outlaw (Jun 7, 2010)

Me loves me some little Debbie. One of the nicest peoples iv ever met.


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## American Outlaw (Jun 7, 2010)

heavyiron said:


> She looks awesome and is probably one of the nicest pros out there. Super positive and helpful all the time. I love Debbie.


 Peek-a-boo.


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## unclem (Jun 7, 2010)

she looks awesome and if i wasnt married i would date her in a minute. i like the bber look on woman, but, i tried getting my wife to go to the gym with my sister who is a competitor herself, but she wont do it. but i love my wife so i guess in the hearafter lol. imo


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## AKIRA (Jun 8, 2010)

sassy69 said:


> I appreciate your response.
> 
> What drives me nuts tho, is that she's a pro-level competitor in a sport that many of us here at least set as the pinnacle of bodybuilding, but as a female, *the only response is whether or not she's fuckable. *
> 
> ...



Hold on, you sure you never have?  I doubt that 100%.  I am sure at times youve admired good old hard earned work, but I can safely assume without knowing you whatsoever that if you are heterosexual (or even gay) youd look at a physique and be turned on instantly.

This is not to say you do this every single time youre turned on.  I mean sure, you can get turned on by someones conversation  but I am sure youve been turned on just from looks alone.

Anyway, I bolded 2 statements.  I have seen a SHITLOAD of girls root and cheer for George St. Pierre just on looks alone.  They know nothing of his fighting caliber, who hes fought, or what work ethic he has to working out nor cutting weight.  Its strictly on looks and making a bullshit reason later when asked why they cheer for him.

Point?  The pillar swings both ways.  I shake my head and look down on the fact they like this athlete only based on looks, but the bottom line is I understand it.

This is a very hard subject to debate with because the results dont work both ways.  When a man works out, he looks like a man.  No gender crossing looks.  However when a woman follows a similar route, like or not, she loses her feminine look.  Now, instead of looking at hard work, we may see a transvestite look instead because its more obvious than the muscles.  In fact, the muscles add to the overall look.

Not trying to change the world here.  Just a matter of something you cannot control nor should it matter if you care about results more than approval.


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## sassy69 (Jun 8, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> Hold on, you sure you never have?  I doubt that 100%.  I am sure at times youve admired good old hard earned work, but I can safely assume without knowing you whatsoever that if you are heterosexual (or even gay) youd look at a physique and be turned on instantly.
> 
> This is not to say you do this every single time youre turned on.  I mean sure, you can get turned on by someones conversation  but I am sure youve been turned on just from looks alone.
> 
> ...



Speaking ONLY for myself - I have been in competitive BB for 10 yrs, in the lifting arena for going on 30 yrs - I will always judge a competitor on physique first in a discussion of competitive bodybuilding and same for any other sport. I don't "judge" a person's ability to compete in that sport by how fuckable they are. The two are fairly mutually exclusive.


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## AKIRA (Jun 8, 2010)

sassy69 said:


> Speaking ONLY for myself - I have been in competitive BB for 10 yrs, in the lifting arena for going on 30 yrs - I will always judge a competitor on physique first in a discussion of competitive bodybuilding and same for any other sport. I don't "judge" a person's ability to compete in that sport by how fuckable they are. The two are fairly mutually exclusive.



I may have loosely explained it, but since your explanation is clear enough, id have to say I doubt it.

Youve never had an inkling of a desire to see someone you would consider "fuckable" to succeed above others?  You can literally turn it off?


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## sassy69 (Jun 8, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> I may have loosely explained it, but since your explanation is clear enough, id have to say I doubt it.
> 
> Youve never had an inkling of a desire to see someone you would consider "fuckable" to succeed above others?  You can literally turn it off?



I don't go to a competition, look at the guys and yell out "HOLY GOD, I"D NEVER FUCK THAT W/ A BORROWED PUSSY!"  or "HOLY MAMA I WANNA CLIMB ON YOU NOW DADDY!"

If one person has a superior physique, better balance, whatever over another, they should win. Anything beyond that may be a secondary thought that passes thru my mind but it certainly has nothing to do w/ who has the superior physique. I've helped a lot of people w/ their posing over the years, so that's where my eye goes first.


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## MDR (Jun 8, 2010)

I agree that her physique is amazing.  I don't see how "fuckability" comes into play when judging the female form in bodybuilding.  Some competitors may be more physically attractive than others, but it should have no bearing on the success or failure of a given competitor.  Balance, symmetry, vascularity and presentation is what wins shows-not who is the most physically attractive.  It's not a matter of not noticing, but more a matter of it being a non-factor.  If judges are focused on physical beauty, the contest becomes nothing more than a beauty contest.  I think there is a lot more to the sport than that.


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## AKIRA (Jun 9, 2010)

sassy69 said:


> I don't go to a competition, look at the guys and yell out "HOLY GOD, I"D NEVER FUCK THAT W/ A BORROWED PUSSY!" or "HOLY MAMA I WANNA CLIMB ON YOU NOW DADDY!"
> 
> If one person has a superior physique, better balance, whatever over another, they should win. Anything beyond that may be a secondary thought that passes thru my mind but it certainly has nothing to do w/ who has the superior physique. I've helped a lot of people w/ their posing over the years, so that's where my eye goes first.



Judging by the point that you used all caps in response to something I did not use all caps with, Id say this is getting too personal.

This is all in response to your quarry about why its difficult for us, men, the general population, God, whomever, to look at the hard work first and as you called it "fuckability" second.  I responded by what I personally think. 

I am not a judge.  I am not the person you are trying to impress.  But when you ask why it could be judged on a beauty scale rather than a work scale, I gave you possible answers.  You dont have to agree.

Do I think they worked hard?  Yeah, more than I ever have at it.  
Do I think they look good?  No way.

There.  I asked the important question first.  Happy?




MDR said:


> I agree that her physique is amazing.  I don't see how "fuckability" comes into play when judging the female form in bodybuilding.  Some competitors may be more physically attractive than others, but it should have no bearing on the success or failure of a given competitor.  Balance, symmetry, vascularity and presentation is what wins shows-not who is the most physically attractive.  It's not a matter of not noticing, but more a matter of it being a non-factor.  If judges are focused on physical beauty, the contest becomes *nothing more than a beauty contest.*  I think there is a lot more to the sport than that.



Honestly, I dont see much of a difference.  Both take a lot of work.


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## MDR (Jun 9, 2010)

Maybe both take a lot of work, but I see a hell of a lot of difference.  As far as judging appearances, of course you are entitled to your opinion.  But I don't think it has any place in the sport, any more than if you judged any athlete on their sexual desirability.


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## AKIRA (Jun 9, 2010)

MDR said:


> Maybe both take a lot of work, but I see a hell of a lot of difference.  As far as judging appearances, of course you are entitled to your opinion.  But I don't think it has any place in the sport, any more than if you judged any athlete on their sexual desirability.



Which is why I brought up George St. Pierre.  Look, NONE of us are judges, yet some peeps still made a comment on how attractive she is or isnt.  sassy wanted to discuss how its interesting.  We arent going to change anything, but id like to assume people on here arent generally stupid.  I may be biased to think this, but I believe it is rather obvious why some of the female bodybuilders would be considered unattractive.  Prince made this thread in discussion about her physique.  Makes sense, this is a bodybuilding site.  However, we speak freely here and its crazy to me that some people dont understand why the comments come as they do, unless they just want to have a discussion which I am all for.  

As far as the quote, a hell of a lot of difference?  Well sure.  There is a hell of a lot of difference between basketball training and powerlifting training.  They both yield 2 different outcomes.  Yet bodybuliding and beauty contest still take place on a stage, judged solely on a display of results rather than performance, and hmm...both have swimsuits.  Also the beauty contest people have to speak and answer political questions..


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## AKIRA (Jun 9, 2010)

Id like to point out that I was not the person who started the attractive scale in this thread..




Prince said:


> I posted this because I think her physique is amazing and she is still *hot*! (I don't normally like the look of a female bodybuilder this big)



Not pin pointing you Prince cuz the next reply stated how she looks like a man and that shes on drugs.

At first, sassy, I didnt know if youre immediate thread response to CORUM was in direct response to the drug use or the man face.

CORUM doesnt know, you dont know, I dont know, but I do know that HGH does have some side effects such as enlarging facial structures.  I have a big nose and thought that if I took HGH I may need to train my neck to keep my schnoz in place when I walk.

In any case, genetics or not, God didnt intend the female to look like that.  And ill say this, drugs or not, it took a lot of work to net these results.


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## MDR (Jun 9, 2010)

Again, you are of course entitled to your opinion.  I just happen to feel that muscular women can still be very attractive, and that she is an excellent example of this.  I'm not asking for you to agree with me, just that either way it has no place in the judging of a contest.  I think she is very attractive, but I've spent a lot of time around bodybuilding and powerlifting, and known very muscular women who I still saw as very feminine.  For me, I immediately think back to when I was in college, and I knew Shelley Beattie.  I know her quite well back then.  She competed a few years later in the Olympia, and if memory serves, placed fourth.  She tragically passed away a few years later, but I'll always remember her as a beautiful woman, inside and out.  One of the great things about this forum is that we can debate and disagree and have a forum to discuss issues such as this.  I don't think you are by any means in the minority here, but that fact does make me a little bit sad, because as a society we do tend to diminish women in general by judging feminine beauty is such restrictive terms.  Just one man's opinion, take it for what you will.


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## AKIRA (Jun 9, 2010)

Bare in mind the discussion did go onto a tangent.  A predictable one, but the first disputable notation didnt involve contest judging.


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## MDR (Jun 9, 2010)

Tangent is one way to put it. For the third time, I recognize your right to express your views on feminine beauty.  Others hold a decidedly different view.  Personally, I feel the important thing is that people don't allow such views to affect their judgment of what is without a doubt a remarkable athletic achievement.  I think the respect and admiration is well-deserved and should be given freely, with no negative judgment or qualification.


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## Extractor (Jan 13, 2011)

NeilPearson said:


> I'm sure she is very nice... *but I wouldn't date her.*
> 
> I can appreciate the work she must put into it but saying she looks fantastic... I think the only person that would agree with that is other competitors. She is built, strong, cut, all that... but she isn't hot at all


 
Thats pretty arrogant & funny at the same time. What makes you think that she would actually date you?


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## AKIRA (Jan 13, 2011)

Cuz I doubt her competition for a date is high.


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## Extractor (Jan 14, 2011)

AKIRA said:


> Cuz I doubt her competition for a date is high.


 Actually it is. 
Debbie has such a charming personality to go along with her striking appearance until she does get hit on a lot.  

People that are disgusted by muscle ladies would be surprised how these ladies (the prettier ones) that have guys that want to go out with them because they are different. 

But thin that herd by removing schmoes who get off on a lady flexing a bicep & guys that initially are hot & heavy for these girls, but end up being threatened by a woman that is "strong" in appearance later is a different story. 

That post I quoted just kind of stuck out because I see guys & girls in general, that say they wouldn't date someone, when they werent even asked to begin with.  Kind of condescending.


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## ParadiseCup (Jan 14, 2011)

Tracy and I know Debbie and she is an awesome lady !!


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## healthservices24 (Jan 24, 2011)

reaallyyy....appreciate debbie...hats off


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