# Yet another Manchurian Incident, school massacre: nwo gun control coming



## SFW (Dec 14, 2012)

20 or so dead in ct, who didnt see this coming?

Its so obvious what they are doing. 

You will see executive orders signed to ban semi autos but no one is gonna give up their weapons. So civil war will break out and yes, martial law.

Fuck this govt.


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## ebn2002 (Dec 14, 2012)

Martial law is Obamas goal so he can serve longer than 2 terms and totally destroy the USA.


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## dieseljimmy (Dec 14, 2012)

I'm litterally sick to my stomach... Who in the fuck open fires on a grade school...24 innocent lives lost... No words


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## IronAddict (Dec 14, 2012)

Yeah, this is just a bit worse than the teacher getting freaky. Damn!


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## heavyiron (Dec 14, 2012)

Heavily armed coward murders teachers and little elementary children. 

AP: 27 Dead, Including 18 Children, At Sandy Hook School Shooting In Newtown - Courant.com


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## LAM (Dec 14, 2012)

ebn2002 said:


> Martial law is Obamas goal so he can serve longer than 2 terms and totally destroy the USA.



the GOP already beat him to it....not much left to do as GWB finished what Reagan started


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## D-Lats (Dec 14, 2012)

Amuricans...


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## SloppyJ (Dec 14, 2012)

Yeah this is pretty coincidental isn't it? I'll never give up my guns.

I read something on CNN where the whitehouse made an annoucement that they want to uphold their commitment to an assualt weapon ban. That's horse shit. This dude supposedly had two pistols.

One article I read said a sig sauer and a glock. Heavy's article says an AR.


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## troubador (Dec 14, 2012)

"Of the 12 deadliest shootings in U.S. history, including today's school massacre, five have occurred during the Obama administration"
Carney: 'Not The Day' To Talk About Gun Control - Business Insider


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## Ichigo (Dec 14, 2012)

troubador said:


> "Of the 12 deadliest shootings in U.S. history, including today's school massacre, five have occurred during the Obama administration"
> Carney: 'Not The Day' To Talk About Gun Control - Business Insider


I was just pointing out that fact to a friend. How coincidental all these shootings happening on Obamas' watch. Soon we will openly have the first Dictator of Amerika.


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## charley (Dec 14, 2012)

He also killed his brother at home first & his mother at the school......


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## heavyiron (Dec 14, 2012)

One entire kindergarten classroom is unaccounted for, sources said.


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## ebn2002 (Dec 14, 2012)

LAM said:


> the GOP already beat him to it....not much left to do as GWB finished what Reagan started



You know, based on your views, you're pretty much a nigger regardless of your skin color.


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## Zaphod (Dec 14, 2012)

That's not very nice.


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## Zaphod (Dec 14, 2012)

Probably by this time tomorrow the anti-gun nuts will be beating their war drums full time.  More people die in the home than they do by guns.  Maybe everyone should live in the wild.


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## dieseljimmy (Dec 14, 2012)

20 kids died today... Not really an excuse for a political argument. One maniacs action is not a reflection on a political party...


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## heckler7 (Dec 14, 2012)

the problem with guns is alot of them are inherited from family, and every family has a nut job. People who own guns should be required to have a gun safe and families should be taught gun safety. My dad never taught me gun safety and just kept them in the closet, I would take them out and play with them as a kid when he was at work. He also kept a pistol on the floor next to his lazy boy chair. And my grandfather kept a revovler in a shoulder holster hanging on his bedroom door. I never thought about taking them and using them to harm people, but who knows if I was crazy or wanted to be a criminal I had access to plenty of loaded guns.


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## heavyiron (Dec 14, 2012)

SloppyJ said:


> Yeah this is pretty coincidental isn't it? I'll never give up my guns.
> 
> I read something on CNN where the whitehouse made an annoucement that they want to uphold their commitment to an assualt weapon ban. That's horse shit. This dude supposedly had two pistols.
> 
> *One article I read said a sig sauer and a glock. Heavy's article says an AR.*



It was all 3 weapons according to latest reports. The little kids had zero chance. Basically he used military caliber weapons on defensless children. Utterly horrific.


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## Zaphod (Dec 14, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> It was all 3 weapons according to latest reports. The little kids had zero chance. Basically he used military caliber weapons on defensless children. Utterly horrific.



That is what fans the anti-gun flames:  "military caliber"  9mm is relatively small compared to the previous .45acp that was used.  .223/5.56mm is merely a .22lr on steroids.  If that gives any perspective on the "military caliber" issue.  Also a lot of people carry much larger rounds every day.  10mm/.40SW, .45acp, .45 long colt, .410 shotgun rounds.  It isn't the caliber, it isn't the gun.  It's the guy behind the gun.  I carry every day.  My 9mm is on my hip right now.  Been there just about all day.  I've been to the bank, grocery store and a few other places.  It never killed anybody nor did it make me want to pull it out and light someone up.


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## btex34n88 (Dec 14, 2012)

Until we start horrifically killing these losers who commit violent crimes they will never fear our legal system. Instead the liberal cunts who run America will allow these worthless scum to slip out as "insane" or take an easy death with lethal inj.


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## heckler7 (Dec 14, 2012)

btex34n88 said:


> Until we start horrifically killing these losers who commit violent crimes they will never fear our legal system. Instead the liberal cunts who run America will allow these worthless scum to slip out as "insane" or take an easy death with lethal inj.


wont help when the gunman offs himself, how are you gonna scare a guy like that with the death penalty. School doors should be locked to outsiders who have no reason to enter.


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## Zaphod (Dec 14, 2012)

heckler7 said:


> wont help when the gunman offs himself, how are you gonna scare a guy like that with the death penalty. School doors should be locked to outsiders who have no reason to enter.



They usually are locked up, unfortunately.  If he is the father of a child there or the husband of a teacher he can get in.  When I go to my kids' schools I get the third degree from any of the staff.  Pisses me off.  Anyone of non-caucasian persuasion gets right in without so much as a glance.


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## myCATpowerlifts (Dec 14, 2012)

btex34n88 said:


> Until we start horrifically killing these losers who commit violent crimes they will never fear our legal system. Instead the liberal cunts who run America will allow these worthless scum to slip out as "insane" or take an easy death with lethal inj.



I hate to point out the obvious here, but this is totally backwards thinking.

Hell, why don't we start chopping hands off of theives, dicks off of rapists, etc etc.


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## maniclion (Dec 14, 2012)

btex34n88 said:


> Until we start horrifically killing these losers who commit violent crimes they will never fear our legal system. Instead the liberal cunts who run America will allow these worthless scum to slip out as "insane" or take an easy death with lethal inj.



Problem with that is these type of people are generally on a suicide mission.  They are looking to take down as many people as they can from a world they deem doomed along with themselves just to make a parting statement.  What needs to happen is the media should blackout all further inquiries into this incident except for who the victims are.  Instead of doing in depth coverage of these monsters they should do 10 minute background stories on each victim.  

The only reason we keep having these types of things is because the media keeps running exclusives on who these monsters were, how they got to such a low point in their lives, what might have triggered them to snap, what dark twisted diatribes did they type on facebook the last few weeks, etc.  I say fuck them, don't even release their name, give all the attention to the victims...


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## dieseljimmy (Dec 14, 2012)

^^^ can't put it any better!


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## exphys88 (Dec 14, 2012)

btex34n88 said:


> Until we start horrifically killing these losers who commit violent crimes they will never fear our legal system. Instead the liberal cunts who run America will allow these worthless scum to slip out as "insane" or take an easy death with lethal inj.



You do realize that most of these guys kill themselves right?


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## Zaphod (Dec 14, 2012)

btex34n88 said:


> Until we start horrifically killing these losers who commit violent crimes they will never fear our legal system. Instead the liberal cunts who run America will allow these worthless scum to slip out as "insane" or take an easy death with lethal inj.



You don't read actual news, do you?  You just listen to the political talking heads?


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## troubador (Dec 15, 2012)

I've read Brady Campaign talking points over the last week. Part of their current strategy is to blame the inability to pass "common sense gun laws" on the NRA who doesn't represent the interests of it's members but instead is all about fueling profits from gun and ammo sales(piggy backing on class warfare). This rhetoric is catching on too. Another thing they repeat is "We need to have a discussion in this country about gun violence" and they say this over and over without meaningfully discussing any issues. It's a tactic to soften people to the idea of accepting gun control, they have no intention of forming logical arguments. I realized that it's impossible for this country to solve its problems based on a logical framework joined by fact. As someone who's concerned about having the right to defend myself, the opposition frames the argument about some lobby group's intentions which has nothing to do with me. I'm not the NRA. If I think having a gun with a large capacity magazine is the best way to defend my house I cannot argue with logic and facts concerning the topic because the opposition simply changes the dialogue and doesn't even bother with the straight up approach. This isn't just the leaders but the followers also. This type of thinking is pervasive in every common demographic. I think maybe the nation is so use to getting its information and talking points in three minute segments on TV that it has literally changed the way they think: Perhaps causing people to either not have critical thinking skills or simply be willfully ignorant. They're the majority and we're at their mercy.


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## Standard Donkey (Dec 15, 2012)

no one is going to even try to take guns away guys.. come on now


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## troubador (Dec 15, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> no one is going to even try to take guns away guys.. come on now



No, they're absolutely going to try. Whether they succeed or not is another matter.


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## Standard Donkey (Dec 15, 2012)

troubador said:


> No, they're absolutely going to try. Whether they succeed or not is another matter.




that is pure insanity.. it could never work..


but i digress


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## heavyiron (Dec 15, 2012)

Zaphod said:


> That is what fans the anti-gun flames:  "military caliber"  9mm is relatively small compared to the previous .45acp that was used.  .223/5.56mm is merely a .22lr on steroids.  If that gives any perspective on the "military caliber" issue.  Also a lot of people carry much larger rounds every day.  10mm/.40SW, .45acp, .45 long colt, .410 shotgun rounds.  It isn't the caliber, it isn't the gun.  It's the guy behind the gun.  I carry every day.  My 9mm is on my hip right now.  Been there just about all day.  I've been to the bank, grocery store and a few other places.  It never killed anybody nor did it make me want to pull it out and light someone up.


I agree, I think you might be reading too much into my post. I'm pro gun and actually own these same weapons.

A Bushmaster AR against 5 year olds in a small room is absolutely overkill. They had no chance. The gunman is a coward.


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## heavyiron (Dec 15, 2012)

One well trained armed adult in that school facility could have repelled the attack. All the cops can do in these cases is come pick up the bodies when you call them. 

I own the same weapons this man had. I could not even imagine hurting anyone with my weapons unless it was absolutely needed. 

As long as the bad guys are around I want to be armed. Disarming sounds good but in the real world its arms that protect us. I don't think this is a gun issue as much as it's a mental issue. This man was hopeless and possibly mentally challenged. Why? Did he not feel loved or respected? I have no idea if he was emotionally hurt or broken or if he was just plain out of his mind but whatever the case it was this man's mental condition that drove his actions.

Most gun laws strictly forbid mentally challenged persons from possessing them. Most gun laws also require arms to be secured. Apparently these existing gun laws were not enforced in his case. 

This whole thing is utterly tragic and horrible. Increasing school security is a no brainer. Training just 1 or 2 adults that are already in the facility would be cost effective and proactive. Another option would be hiring retired cops or military personnel.


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## heckler7 (Dec 15, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> I agree, I think you might be reading too much into my post. I'm pro gun and actually own these same weapons.
> 
> A Bushmaster AR against 5 year olds in a small room is absolutely overkill. They had no chance. The gunman is a coward.


I think this may possibly be the way to deter this, by making it known in how much of a pussy and coward you are to kill defenseless children,, I dont think these people do this to leave behind a cowardly legacy. they want to shock people and make the news.
I hope in the future scientist figure out a way to re-animate these bastards so we can kill them slowly


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## troubador (Dec 15, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> Most gun laws strictly forbid mentally challenged persons from possessing them. Most gun laws also require arms to be secured. Apparently these existing gun laws were not enforced in his case.



MSN reported he attempted to buy a rifle earlier in the week and was denied. An AWB is also in place in CT, I don't know if the one he took from his parents was legal or not but the fact remains he circumvented both laws.


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## LAM (Dec 16, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> Most gun laws strictly forbid mentally challenged persons from possessing them. Most gun laws also require arms to be secured. Apparently these existing gun laws were not enforced in his case.



a question on a application does not constitute any meaningfully stoppage of the mentally ill from purchasing a firearm.  the US has one of the highests percentage of severely mentally ill people in the OECD most of which are not under treatment with almost 25% of the total population suffering from one or many forms of mental illness.  we are also a very violent (tv shows, movies, video games, etc.) with a public infatuated with celebrity and in general not a very kind society.  when combined with easy access to weapons it's a recipe for disaster.

as with most problems there is not one single cause and no single cure to this growing problem.  in the US "mental health" is still a rather taboo subject and should be at the forefront of medical research.


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## dirtwarrior (Dec 16, 2012)

charley said:


> He also killed his brother at home first & his mother at the school......


Wrong


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## Valkyrie (Dec 16, 2012)

That awkward moment when everyone thinks we need more gun control, and I just think I need more guns.


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## Watson (Dec 16, 2012)

the more guns there are in any society, the more that can fall into the wrong hands

for every 100 people with a gun in the US there would be about 75 who arent fit to own one..........how many masacres until the people demanding they have a right to own one admit that something has to be done?????


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## SloppyJ (Dec 16, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> One well trained armed adult in that school facility could have repelled the attack. All the cops can do in these cases is come pick up the bodies when you call them.
> Training just 1 or 2 adults that are already in the facility would be cost effective and proactive. Another option would be hiring retired cops or military personnel.



What is extremely weird is that I was talking to a school teacher the night before. They have been having "lockdown" drills lately. I brought up the point that if I was a teacher I would feel highly inclined to have a weapon on me. They agreed. I totally agree 100% here heavy.


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## FUZO (Dec 16, 2012)

My daughters school has ever door locked and the only one that you can get in is in the front and that has to be buzzed in by the women sitting at the desk.All schools should now try to upgrade there security by making sure doors are closed or somehow watched by cameras just a idea.


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## hypno (Dec 16, 2012)

Politics aside I suspect even gun control freaks are heart broken over this. There are few people that could not be. That said...

I think we could strengthen gun laws in some way to help. Better background checks, mandatory gun use courses or something along those lines.Taking guns from law abiding people that just want to protect themselves or collect, target shoot etc, is _not_ the way though. 

1 thing we could do NOW to help slow down this crap is not to show it 24 hours a day on tv after it happens. Reporting is one thing, grinding it out on and on and on is another. The "race" to show a small piece of info first or show the most info may tell sicko's that they can get more attention than they ever thought possible.

Another thing I think, could be to train some teachers and staff how to use weapons. Not all of them of course, but some. As with a concealed weapons permits it may give sickos pause to know that someone around our children has a gun and knows how to use it. The first time someone goes to a school and tries hurt the children that gets his head blown off would be a step in the right direction. And if that happened I would not be so opposed to showing it on tv 24 hours a day on and on and on.


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## Zaphod (Dec 16, 2012)

Socrates said:


> the more guns there are in any society, the more that can fall into the wrong hands
> 
> for every 100 people with a gun in the US there would be about 75 who arent fit to own one..........how many masacres until the people demanding they have a right to own one admit that something has to be done?????



Where do you get the 75 out of 100 not being fit to own a gun?


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## heckler7 (Dec 16, 2012)

hypno said:


> Politics aside I suspect even gun control freaks are heart broken over this. There are few people that could not be. That said...
> 
> I think we could strengthen gun laws in some way to help. Better background checks, mandatory gun use courses or something along those lines.Taking guns from law abiding people that just want to protect themselves or collect, target shoot etc, is _not_ the way though.
> 
> ...


there are plenty of companies that provide armed security. alot of inner city schools already have metal detectors and police present. I drive by a few in LA that have several police cars always out front.


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## AMA Rider (Dec 16, 2012)

hypno said:


> Politics aside I suspect even gun control freaks are heart broken over this. There are few people that could not be. That said...
> 
> I think we could strengthen gun laws in some way to help. Better background checks, mandatory gun use courses or something along those lines.Taking guns from law abiding people that just want to protect themselves or collect, target shoot etc, is _not_ the way though.
> 
> ...


Ya,what a heartbreak. I agree  Hypno. Also, mental illness statistically shows between the ages of 18 to 27 . The last 3 nuts fall in that range.


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## hoyle21 (Dec 16, 2012)

http://m.gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother

"Three days before 20-year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year-old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.

"I can wear these pants," he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.

"They are navy blue," I told him. "Your school's dress code says black or khaki pants only."

"They told me I could wear these," he insisted. "You're a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!"

"You can't wear whatever pants you want to," I said, my tone affable, reasonable. "And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You're grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school."

I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.
A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7- and 9-year-old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.

That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn't have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

We still don't know what's wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He's been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood-altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.

At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he's in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He's in a good mood most of the time. But when he's not, watch out. And it's impossible to predict what will set him off.

Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district's most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can't function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30 to 1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.

The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, "Look, Mom, I'm really sorry. Can I have video games back today?"

"No way," I told him. "You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly."

His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. "Then I'm going to kill myself," he said. "I'm going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself."

That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.

"Where are you taking me?" he said, suddenly worried. "Where are we going?"

"You know where we are going," I replied.

"No! You can't do that to me! You're sending me to hell! You're sending me straight to hell!"

I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. "Call the police," I said. "Hurry."

Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn't escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I'm still stronger than he is, but I won't be for much longer.

The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork—"Were there any difficulties with… at what age did your child… were there any problems with.. has your child ever experienced.. does your child have…"

At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You'll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.

For days, my son insisted that I was lying—that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, "I hate you. And I'm going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here."

By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I've heard those promises for years. I don't believe them anymore.

On the intake form, under the question, "What are your expectations for treatment?" I wrote, "I need help."

And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.

I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza's mother. I am Dylan Klebold's and Eric Harris's mother. I am Jason Holmes's mother. I am Jared Loughner's mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho's mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it's easy to talk about guns. But it's time to talk about mental illness.

According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.

When I asked my son's social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. "If he's back in the system, they'll create a paper trail," he said. "That's the only way you're ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you've got charges."

I don't believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael's sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn't deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise—in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population.

With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill—Rikers Island, the LA County Jail and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation's largest treatment centers in 2011.

No one wants to send a 13-year-old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, "Something must be done."

I agree that something must be done. It's time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That's the only way our nation can ever truly heal.

God help me. God help Michael. God help us all."


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## LAM (Dec 16, 2012)

FUZO said:


> My daughters school has ever door locked and the only one that you can get in is in the front and that has to be buzzed in by the women sitting at the desk.All schools should now try to upgrade there security by making sure doors are closed or somehow watched by cameras just a idea.



security is only as good as the people tasked with the job.  I work in a lot of schools doing phone work and I have never been asked for ID once and move around freely with out ever being questioned as to my business there, etc. and that was the first couple of times I had been to all of the.

I think it's very foreign for people in education to think about this stuff all the time, it's just not that type of environment or the kind of people that worry about such things.


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## troubador (Dec 16, 2012)

Socrates said:


> the more guns there are in any society, the more that can fall into the wrong hands
> 
> for every 100 people with a gun in the US there would be about 75 who arent fit to own one..........how many masacres until the people demanding they have a right to own one admit that something has to be done?????



Mass shootings are not becoming more common from the stats I've seen. Also, it's important to look at what's been tried before, analyze statistics, use critical thinking; the last thing we want to do is rely on people's common sense.


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## maniclion (Dec 16, 2012)

Take away the ease of getting guns, then they'll try to fly a plane into a school or shopping mall, or steal a bulldozer.   These crazy fucks will always find a way to kill.


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## biggerben69 (Dec 16, 2012)

Zaphod said:


> Probably by this time tomorrow the anti-gun nuts will be beating their war drums full time.  More people die in the home than they do by guns.  Maybe everyone should live in the wild.



From what? Hair dryer in the tub thing?


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## LAM (Dec 16, 2012)

maniclion said:


> Take away the ease of getting guns, then they'll try to fly a plane into a school or shopping mall, or steal a bulldozer.   These crazy fucks will always find a way to kill.



yes they will always kill but statistically most of them are not highly skilled, some highly educated but that's surely not the same.  

in terms of guns the semi-auto just makes it very easy to kill in numbers in a short amount of time and the high capacity magazines.

what I do find puzzling about the crime stats on mass shootings is almost a complete lack of information on the topic from say 1940-1980.  it seems like most of the data only deals with the last 30 years with the post WWII era being a much different and overall friendlier society than present day.


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## Zaphod (Dec 16, 2012)

troubador said:


> Mass shootings are not becoming more common from the stats I've seen. Also, it's important to look at what's been tried before, analyze statistics, use critical thinking; the last thing we want to do is rely on people's common sense.



What makes it look more common is the instant news report that is available.


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## Zaphod (Dec 16, 2012)

biggerben69 said:


> From what? Hair dryer in the tub thing?



That is probably a big part.  Mostly slip and falls, down stairs and in bath tubs.


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## Tris10 (Dec 16, 2012)

That piece of shit wont make it one day if they put him in any kind of a general population! 

I heard they arrested some other guy for threatening to do the same thing. He had a car full of guns. I guess his wife told police.

Pathetic excuses for humans!!!


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## myCATpowerlifts (Dec 17, 2012)

What the hell to do with mentally ill people???


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## heavyiron (Dec 17, 2012)

LAM said:


> what I do find puzzling about the crime stats on mass shootings is almost a complete lack of information on the topic from say 1940-1980.  it seems like most of the data only deals with the last 30 years with the post WWII era being a much different and overall friendlier society than present day.



Thou shalt not kill was removed from our schools. We cannot teach "religious" morality anymore. Kids are taught that we are not much different from animals. We have no maker to stand before and be judged for our actions. Its time to bring back morality and teach that all human life is precious.


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## hoyle21 (Dec 17, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> Thou shalt not kill was removed from our schools. We cannot teach "religious" morality anymore. Kids are taught that we are not much different from animals. We have no maker to stand before and be judged for our actions. Its time to bring back morality and teach that all human life is precious.



Not sure if serious....


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## DOMS (Dec 17, 2012)

Socrates said:


> the more guns there are in any society, the more that can fall into the wrong hands
> 
> for every 100 people with a gun in the US there would be about 75 who arent fit to own one..........how many masacres until the people demanding they have a right to own one admit that something has to be done?????



The majority of gun massacres happen in "gun free" zones. A guy tried to pull a gun massacre in Salt Lake City. He was gun downed after he shot one person.

Also, I'll refer you to this post of mine:



DOMS said:


> This was in the funny picture thread, but oh-so-relevant here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## exphys88 (Dec 17, 2012)

heavyiron said:


> Thou shalt not kill was removed from our schools. We cannot teach "religious" morality anymore. Kids are taught that we are not much different from animals. We have no maker to stand before and be judged for our actions. Its time to bring back morality and teach that all human life is precious.



Troll alert.

All kids should be taught morality from the Koran.  Wait, what?


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## heavyiron (Dec 17, 2012)

I could care less the religious background but lets face it, kids need to be taught that all human life is precious. Many kids spend all day in virtual video games mass killing then they go to the movies watching mass killing (even the good guys in the movies) We fill our kids minds with violence and killing 24/7. Its time to stop filling these kids minds with nonsense.


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## maniclion (Dec 17, 2012)

LAM said:


> yes they will always kill but statistically most of them are not highly skilled, some highly educated but that's surely not the same.
> 
> in terms of guns the semi-auto just makes it very easy to kill in numbers in a short amount of time and the high capacity magazines.
> 
> what I do find puzzling about the crime stats on mass shootings is almost a complete lack of information on the topic from say 1940-1980.  it seems like most of the data only deals with the last 30 years with the post WWII era being a much different and overall friendlier society than present day.



Or more US citizens were packing heat during that time making people think twice before doing such things.  There was the sniper in Texas in the 60's , plus the many assassinations, Kennedy's, King , Malcolm...


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## DOMS (Dec 17, 2012)

maniclion said:


> Or more US citizens were packing heat during that time making people think twice before doing such things.  There was the sniper in Texas in the 60's , plus the many assassinations, Kennedy's, King , Malcolm...



Or numbers have relevance. There has been an increase in overall crime in the USA for many reasons, but one of the primary factors is there are more people. If everything else stays the same, the incidents of crime will go up by virtue of there being more people. Which is why per capita is important.


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## heckler7 (Dec 17, 2012)

I blame rap music


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## Swiper (Dec 17, 2012)

where was all the outrage when our govt. murdered 76 people including 26 children at Waco?


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## hoyle21 (Dec 17, 2012)

Swiper said:


> where was all the outrage when our govt. murdered 76 people including 26 children at Waco?



More religious nut jobs.   Screw'em.

I'd like to see how you want to compare this.   Especially since with Waco the ATF was attempting to serve a search warrant when they were fired upon.

Did suck that children were killed?   Yup, but nobody is above the law.


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## maniclion (Dec 17, 2012)

Swiper said:


> where was all the outrage when our govt. murdered 76 people including 26 children at Waco?



That's going to be Westboro Baptist one day, another Waco incident...


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## Swiper (Dec 17, 2012)

hoyle21 said:


> More religious nut jobs.   Screw'em.
> 
> I'd like to see how you want to compare this.   Especially since with Waco the ATF was attempting to serve a search warrant when they were fired upon.
> 
> Did suck that children were killed?   Yup, but nobody is above the law.




whatever the circumstances were, the fact remains the govt chose to killed 76 people including 26 innocent children.


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## Swiper (Dec 17, 2012)

[video=youtube;YjM9fcEzSJ0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YjM9fcEzSJ0#![/video]


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## hoyle21 (Dec 17, 2012)

Swiper said:


> whatever the circumstances were, the fact remains the govt chose to killed 76 people including 26 innocent children.



The circumstances matter a lot.   The branch killed 4 ATF agents in the original gun fire.    Are you Timothy McVeigh's cousin or something?


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## Swiper (Dec 17, 2012)

hoyle21 said:


> The circumstances matter a lot.   The branch killed 4 ATF agents in the original gun fire.    Are you Timothy McVeigh's cousin or something?



lol no

I don't see how they're justified in killing 26 innocent kids. I'm pretty sure none if them pulled the trigger.


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## jay_steel (Dec 17, 2012)

All of the schools where I live have locking doors where the only way you can get in is either key or from the inside. No one would have been able to get into any class if this was the case. Also each of our schools have a campus cop assigned to them based on the size of the school elementary schools will have one and junior high 2-3 and high schools 3-4. Each cop is armed and were all ways really cool to the students. Never abused their power and stayed out of every thing that was not against the law. So unless you were doing burn outs or ect the cops had no jurisdiction to bother you. Most of them were cool and would give rides to class if you were late and ect. but the average fight at our school would last less then 30 seconds. 

Any one with our proper ID would be escorted by one of the cops and all maintenance personnel would also be escorted while doing their work. You can attempt to ban all guns that is only going to put gangs in more power against the local citizens and further separate our country. I will bury my weapons and report them stolen before I hand over a single firearm.


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## LAM (Dec 17, 2012)

Swiper said:


> where was all the outrage when our govt. murdered 76 people including 26 children at Waco?



the US gov is responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of people inside and outside the US over the past 60+ years.


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## troubador (Dec 17, 2012)

Swiper said:


> [video=youtube;YjM9fcEzSJ0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YjM9fcEzSJ0#![/video]



The most important part is in the first minute where he says you have to cut through the emotion and get to the facts. If the anti's adopted this principle most would have nothing to say on the issue. We've already tried an assault weapons ban, it didn't help.


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## LAM (Dec 18, 2012)

troubador said:


> The most important part is in the first minute where he says you have to cut through the emotion and get to the facts. If the anti's adopted this principle most would have nothing to say on the issue. We've already tried an assault weapons ban, it didn't help.



there was already 80-100m assault rifles out there in the hands of the public before the 2004 ban. I'm pretty sure all it did was drive the price up during that period.

the militarization of US civilian weapons fueled by the "fear campaign" that started in the 80's is nothing more than another tactic by US large firms to increase profits.  violent crime in the US has been dropping since the 70's but through the media monopoly, etc.  they have to keep fueling the fire.  only a small percentage of gun owners buy assault rifles but it appears that those of us that do usually have several of them, I certainly do.


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## jagbender (Dec 18, 2012)




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## jagbender (Dec 18, 2012)




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## jagbender (Dec 18, 2012)




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## jagbender (Dec 18, 2012)




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## jagbender (Dec 18, 2012)

Israeli school teacher.  I bet they do not have many random shooting there


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## jagbender (Dec 18, 2012)




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## jagbender (Dec 18, 2012)




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## jagbender (Dec 18, 2012)




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## jagbender (Dec 18, 2012)




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## jagbender (Dec 18, 2012)




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## jagbender (Dec 18, 2012)




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## jagbender (Dec 18, 2012)




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## jagbender (Dec 18, 2012)




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## Big Pimpin (Dec 18, 2012)




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## jagbender (Dec 18, 2012)

An undated photo of Adam Lanza, who posed for a group photo with the Newtown High technology club (AP)
NEWTOWN, Conn.?In stockpiling ammunition, smashing his computers and killing his mother as she slept, Adam Lanza undertook considerable preparation before shooting up an elementary school on Friday, a former FBI profiler said.
"He didn't just snap. This takes a lot of planning," said Mary Ellen O'Toole, who worked for 15 years in the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit where she studied psychopaths and helped capture killers.
O'Toole retired in 2009 and has no direct connection to the case.
Investigators had hoped Lanza's computers would shed some light on what caused him to massacre 20 first-graders and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary, a school he once attended. But the 20-year-old reportedly butchered his computer's hard drives with a hammer or screwdriver, according to ABC News.
Still, the FBI's Computer Analysis and Response Team has been working around the clock on the case and could make progress despite the damage.
"The FBI is pretty good, we can pull stuff off anything," O'Toole said.
O'Toole still assists law enforcement and has written a book titled "Dangerous Instincts." She says the Sandy Hook shootings are worse than any case she has dealt with before.
"I have not seen a case with callousness of this extreme," O'Toole said of Lanza's shooting rampage. "It's off the charts."
Multiple reports have painted Lanza, who lived alone with his divorced mother, as being socially awkward but very intelligent, especially when it came to computers.
O'Toole said the way Lanza carried out his killings suggested a high measure of control, including damaging the computers.
"His computers were very important him. They were a window to his world," O'Toole told Yahoo News. "He didn't want them to survive. He knew that they would give insight into him and didn't want people to have it."
Friends and family of Lanza's mother, 52-year-old Nancy Lanza, have said she dedicated her life to helping her son, who reportedly had Asperger's syndrome or other medical issues.
O'Toole said people with Asperger's, which is a neurological disorder, aren't known to commit such violence and that too much is being made about Lanza's mental health.
"It's time we stop putting out the mental health issue as an excuse that he didn't know what he was doing," she said.
Lanza brought three guns into the school, all owned by his mother. He killed his victims with a high-powered semi-automatic rifle, but he also carried two pistols, one of which he used to take his own life. Police say he sprayed hundreds of bullets inside the school and had considerably more left over to use.
Shooting his mother while she slept and preloading numerous rounds of ammunition into the gun clips signals that Lanza was on a mission, O'Toole said.
"He wanted to accomplish maximum lethality," O'Toole said. "He was not out of touch with reality. I think he put some security measures in place so he wouldn't be stopped."
*Which unfortunately meant choosing the most helpless of victims,* she added.
"If you pick older people you are going to have some blowback," O'Toole said. "He didn't want people to interfere. When people take security measures like that, you know what you are doing is wrong."


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## Swiper (Dec 18, 2012)

where's all the outrage about making alcohol illegal?  how many innocent people die each year from intoxicated drivers?


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## btex34n88 (Dec 18, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> You do realize that most of these guys kill themselves right?



Most yeah, but I'm sure your familiar with the movie theater shooter? Setting an example for what they can expect to have done to them if they perform a horrific crime seems like a reasonable idea, if they kill themself the tax payers won't have to deal with the financial burden...this only applies to those who actually pay taxes


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## irish_2003 (Dec 18, 2012)

just like the war on drugs, the war on guns will become another illegal revenue stream for the gov't


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## heckler7 (Dec 18, 2012)

number one killer of children younger than 14 is auto accidents, its time the government took some action and outlawed cars


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## exphys88 (Dec 18, 2012)

btex34n88 said:


> Most yeah, but I'm sure your familiar with the movie theater shooter? Setting an example for what they can expect to have done to them if they perform a horrific crime seems like a reasonable idea, if they kill themself the tax payers won't have to deal with the financial burden...this only applies to those who actually pay taxes



Hey, I'm all for torturing those sick fuckers too.  Death is too easy.  I just don't think it would help stop cases like this.  Child molesters are the ones that should be tortured.


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## exphys88 (Dec 19, 2012)

I'm a liberal, most of my friends are liberal, yet I don't know anyone that actually thinks gun control is the answer.  Who are these people?


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## hoyle21 (Dec 19, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> I'm a liberal, most of my friends are liberal, yet I don't know anyone that actually thinks gun control is the answer.  Who are these people?



I've been accused of being liberal at times, and I don't believe gun bans are the answer.


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## LAM (Dec 19, 2012)

hoyle21 said:


> I've been accused of being liberal at times, and I don't believe gun bans are the answer.



there so many weapons out in the public domain already it doesn't matter.  I would be behind a ban on high capacity magazines.


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## Zaphod (Dec 19, 2012)

I'm all for a ban on idiots in government, getting the mentally ill off the street and in an institution, public flogging of Diane Feinstein and more tactical training places.


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## irish_2003 (Dec 19, 2012)

the problem is that all the soccer moms and soccer dads (or people with high estrogen and no T) want rainbows and unicorns...we need to ban soccer...it's promoting pussification of americans and sometimes they don't keep score so nobodies feelings get hurt...def need to ban soccer


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## DOMS (Dec 19, 2012)

"We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is  guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American  precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." - Ronald Reagan

This means even more when you consider that Reagan was once the recipient of an assassination attempt.


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## Big Pimpin (Dec 19, 2012)

DOMS said:


> "We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is  guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American  precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." - Ronald Reagan
> 
> This means even more when you consider that Reagan was once the recipient of an assassination attempt.



The liberal motto:  It's never my fault or the government's fault, it's your fault


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## T K (Dec 19, 2012)

ebn2002 said:


> Martial law is Obamas goal so he can serve longer than 2 terms and totally destroy the USA.



Your stupidity is beyond words.

The guy is done after 2016, so don't soil your panties.
I wish people would get over it already, its so tiresome.


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## T K (Dec 19, 2012)

hypno said:


> Politics aside I suspect even gun control freaks are heart broken over this. *There are few people that could not be*. That said...



Those are not people, they are psychos.


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## Swiper (Dec 19, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> I'm a liberal,



sorry to hear that. Is there anything we can do to help?


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## T K (Dec 19, 2012)

Swiper said:


> sorry to hear that. Is there anything we can do to help?



I'm independent, which means I have no interest in helping you or anyone.


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## T K (Dec 19, 2012)

Big Pimpin said:


> The liberal motto: It's never my fault or the government's fault, it's your fault



I guess in your world, conservatives never blame liberals or anyone 
who is not foolish enough to be brainwashed by them for anything.


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## heckler7 (Dec 19, 2012)

DOMS said:


> "We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is  guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American  precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." - Ronald Reagan
> 
> This means even more when you consider that Reagan was once the recipient of an assassination attempt.


times have changed, it would be nice to say lets get the old america back, that would mean organized crime, unions in power, strong middle class, before reganomics. But we really need to do something about the wackos being able to walk into public places unopposed and killing innocent people. IMO we need more armed citizens legal to carry. It may not stop maniacs but it should at least the death toll on crime like this may be alot smaller.


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## DOMS (Dec 19, 2012)

heckler7 said:


> times have changed, it would be nice to say lets get the old america back, that would mean organized crime, unions in power, strong middle class, before reganomics. But we really need to do something about the wackos being able to walk into public places unopposed and killing innocent people. IMO we need more armed citizens legal to carry. It may not stop maniacs but it should at least the death toll on crime like this may be alot smaller.



You don't need to include a "but". Your thinking is inline with what Reagan said. Put the responsibility on the murders and don't punish society by taking away guns. 

If people _really_ wanted to cut down on murders, they get rid of gun free zones.


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## exphys88 (Dec 19, 2012)

Swiper said:


> sorry to hear that. Is there anything we can do to help?



Nope, we're doing just fine putting our guys in office.


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## Gregzs (Dec 19, 2012)

Meanwhile some parents are complicating the situation:

Eleven-Year-Old Utah Boy Brings Gun to School Allegedly to Protect Against Newtown-Style Shooting | Fox News Insider


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## troubador (Dec 19, 2012)

The real scary thing about this may not be the initial ban. The statistics and reports by government agencies on the ineffectiveness of the federal AWB are not hard to find. I suspect the anti's realize this and will take additional measures. If they pass a new AWB I expect that grandfathered in guns will be required to be registered. Obviously, this won't reduce gun crime, prompting further action where they'll attempt to use the registry to round up those guns that were grandfathered in. 

On a brighter note, I hope people will realize the need to write their representatives to make sure this stuff doesn't pass.


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## LAM (Dec 20, 2012)

DOMS said:


> You don't need to include a "but". Your thinking is inline with what Reagan said. Put the responsibility on the murders and don't punish society by taking away guns.
> 
> If people _really_ wanted to cut down on murders, they get rid of gun free zones.



gun free zones don't do squat, no legislation decreases crime.  the overwhelming majority of people killed via homicide are killed by somebody they knew, almost impossible to protect yourself from that.

the best way to reduce random murders is to not create an extremely violent, constantly waring society with Darwinist characteristics.  the country's in the world with the lowest murder rates are nothing at all like the US in function.


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## LAM (Dec 20, 2012)

Pat Kelsey's Sandy Hook speech was the right move by the right coach - Yahoo! Sports


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## jagbender (Dec 20, 2012)

heckler7 said:


> times have changed, it would be nice to say lets get the old america back, that would mean organized crime, unions in power, strong middle class, before reganomics. But we really need to do something about the wackos being able to walk into public places unopposed and killing innocent people. IMO we need more armed citizens legal to carry. It may not stop maniacs but it should at least the death toll on crime like this may be alot smaller.



I am licensed and do carry all the time.


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## jagbender (Dec 20, 2012)

DOMS said:


> You don't need to include a "but". Your thinking is inline with what Reagan said. Put the responsibility on the murders and don't punish society by taking away guns.
> 
> If people _really_ wanted to cut down on murders, they get rid of gun free zones.




Gun free zones make for easy targets with no resistance!


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## jagbender (Dec 20, 2012)

Gregzs said:


> Meanwhile some parents are complicating the situation:
> 
> Eleven-Year-Old Utah Boy Brings Gun to School Allegedly to Protect Against Newtown-Style Shooting | Fox News Insider



If the parent gave that boy the gun, they should be locked up!


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## irish_2003 (Dec 20, 2012)

the best way to lower violent crime is to kill off all people that think like lam...sure it will spike doing it, but then it will go down tremendously once we get rid of those people


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## T K (Dec 20, 2012)

irish_2003 said:


> the best way to lower violent crime is to kill off all people that think like lam...sure it will spike doing it, but then it will go down tremendously once we get rid of those people



Then why don't you follow up on your insane instincts and go mass shooting.
A greater chance of the world getting slightly better with you dying in the process.


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## LAM (Dec 20, 2012)

jagbender said:


> I am licensed and do carry all the time.



as do 150-200 police officers killed in the US every year...


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## fit26 (Dec 20, 2012)

Did you guys watch Red Dawn?  If you love your country, then you should own some guns and get some kind of military training.


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## troubador (Dec 20, 2012)

If we're honest the real reason the murder rate in the US is so high is black people. The murder rate among whites in 2010 was about 1.9 (per 100,000), for blacks it was 10.8. The white rate is really close to other industrialized nations who also tend to be much more homogeneous. The mass shootings are mostly white males though. Does anybody have the rate of mass shootings per country? You know like mass shooting victims per 100,000. That would be interesting.


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## Swiper (Dec 20, 2012)

*HERE?S THE CHART THAT SUPPORTERS OF A FEDERAL ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN WON?T WANT TO SEE*

While anti-gun advocates argue that banning semi-automatic rifles, like the popular AR-15, will help decrease shooting deaths in the U.S., FBI data suggests that the average American is more likely to be killed by ?hands, fists? or ?feet? than a rifle. The anti-gun crowd has intensified its calls for a federal assault weapons ban following the tragedy in Newtown, Conn. last week.







FBI — Table 20


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## Swiper (Jan 24, 2013)

*Here Are All The Children Murdered By **Obama *

*Visualizing the illegal drone bombardment*

*Steve Watson*
Infowars.com
Jan 24, 2013
The president likes children right? He surrounds himself with them constantly to help bolster his political agenda.
When it comes to children who get in the way of his political agenda, however, it?s a different story.
Here is a visual of the hundreds of children that have been murdered in US drone strikes on Pakistan and Yemen, ordered by the president during his first term.
Their ages range from just 1 year old to 19 years of age:



Name | Age | Gender
PAKISTAN
Noor Aziz | 8 | male
Abdul Wasit | 17 | male
Noor Syed | 8 | male
Wajid Noor | 9 | male
Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male
Ayeesha | 3 | female
Qari Alamzeb | 14| male
Shoaib | 8 | male
Hayatullah KhaMohammad | 16 | male
Tariq Aziz | 16 | male
Sanaullah Jan | 17 | male
Maezol Khan | 8 | female
Nasir Khan | male
Naeem Khan | male
Naeemullah | male
Mohammad Tahir | 16 | male
Azizul Wahab | 15 | male
Fazal Wahab | 16 | male
Ziauddin | 16 | male
Mohammad Yunus | 16 | male
Fazal Hakim | 19 | male
Ilyas | 13 | male
Sohail | 7 | male
Asadullah | 9 | male
khalilullah | 9 | male
Noor Mohammad | 8 | male
Khalid | 12 | male
Saifullah | 9 | male
Mashooq Jan | 15 | male
Nawab | 17 | male
Sultanat Khan | 16 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 13 | male
Noor Mohammad | 15 | male
Mohammad Yaas Khan | 16 | male
Qari Alamzeb | 14 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 17 | male
Abdullah | 18 | male
Ikramullah Zada | 17 | male
Inayatur Rehman | 16 | male
Shahbuddin | 15 | male
Yahya Khan | 16 |male
Rahatullah |17 | male
Mohammad Salim | 11 | male
Shahjehan | 15 | male
Gul Sher Khan | 15 | male
Bakht Muneer | 14 | male
Numair | 14 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Taseel Khan | 18 | male
Zaheeruddin | 16 | male
Qari Ishaq | 19 | male
Jamshed Khan | 14 | male
Alam Nabi | 11 | male
Qari Abdul Karim | 19 | male
Rahmatullah | 14 | male
Abdus Samad | 17 | male
Siraj | 16 | male
Saeedullah | 17 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Salman | 12 | male
Fazal Wahab | 18 | male
Baacha Rahman | 13 | male
Wali-ur-Rahman | 17 | male
Iftikhar | 17 | male
Inayatullah | 15 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Adnan | 16 | male
Najibullah | 13 | male
Naeemullah | 17 | male
Hizbullah | 10 | male
Kitab Gul | 12 | male
Wilayat Khan | 11 | male
Zabihullah | 16 | male
Shehzad Gul | 11 | male
Shabir | 15 | male
Qari Sharifullah | 17 | male
Shafiullah | 16 | male
Nimatullah | 14 | male
Shakirullah | 16 | male
Talha | 8 | male

YEMEN
Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser | 9 | female
Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 7 | female
Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 5 | female
Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser | 4 | female
Ibrahim Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 13 | male
Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 9 | male
Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | female
Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 3 | female
Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye | 1 | female
Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye | 6 | female
Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | male
Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye | 15 | female
Maryam Hussein Abdullah Awad | 2 | female
Shafiq Hussein Abdullah Awad | 1 | female
Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh | 3 | female
Maha Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 12 | male
Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 9 | female
Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 4 | female
Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 2 | male
Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari | 13 | male
Daolah Nasser 10 years | 10 | female
AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout | 12 | male
Abdel- Rahman Anwar al Awlaki | 16 | male
Abdel-Rahman al-Awlaki | 17 | male
Nasser Salim | 19
? Here Are All The Children Murdered By Drone Strikes At The Hands Of Obama Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!


Where's all the outrage for drone control?


----------



## Zaphod (Jan 24, 2013)

Swiper said:


> Where's all the outrage for drone control?



It's okay because Obama said so.


----------



## LAM (Jan 24, 2013)

troubador said:


> If we're honest the real reason the murder rate in the US is so high is black people.



it has nothing at all to do with race and everything to do with economics and concentrated urban poverty.  there are high murder rates, street crimes, home invasions, etc.  in ALL country's with easy access to firearms and concentrated urban poverty.

crime committed by those in the lower income quintiles are more personal and effects fewer people, people are desperate and most act of of desperation.  the pareto principle has shown historically that the majority of crime is committed by a small percentage of the population, aka. the "career criminal".  this is known world history.  

crimes committed by those in the upper income quintiles typically effect far more people in the aggregate such as massive fraud, ponzi schemes, etc. take Bernard Maddoff as a perfect example his "white collar" crime effected several thousand people across 5 different continents.

the "pirates" known in Somilia etc. used to be fisherman but then the Chinese, Japanese, etc. fishing trawlers came and over-fished the area due to a lack of a navy, etc. and those people then turned to crime to support their families, etc.

unions in the US were busted in the 80's along with minimum wage being frozen for a decade under Reagan and GHWB, urban crime increased slightly in US high poverty urban areas by those in the lowest income quintile, cause and effect...


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## troubador (Jan 24, 2013)

LAM said:


> it has nothing at all to do with race and everything to do with economics and concentrated urban poverty.  there are high murder rates, street crimes, home invasions, etc.  in ALL country's with easy access to firearms and concentrated urban poverty.



That's overly simplistic. If you wanted to see how poverty affected crime in comparison to race you wouldn't look only at crime as it relates to income. You need to look at how economic status affects crime rates within each race. Sure blacks are poorer but what's the variance in crime rate relative to income within the black demographic and how does that variance compare to the variance among whites?...



> First, the results lead to the  conclusion that the  impact  of  theoretically  important structural predictors on homicide is not  the same for blacks and whites.
> Rather, the effects of  each indicator of socioeconomic deprivation are gen-
> erally stronger for whites than for blacks.  Second, based upon the racial
> variance in slope coefficients, I  conclude that the racial gap in homicide
> ...


http://www.udel.edu/soc/faculty/parker/SOCI836_S08_files/Ousey_CRIM99.pdf


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## Zaphod (Jan 25, 2013)

LAM said:


> it has nothing at all to do with race and everything to do with economics and concentrated urban poverty.  there are high murder rates, street crimes, home invasions, etc.  in ALL country's with easy access to firearms and concentrated urban poverty.
> 
> crime committed by those in the lower income quintiles are more personal and effects fewer people, people are desperate and most act of of desperation.  the pareto principle has shown historically that the majority of crime is committed by a small percentage of the population, aka. the "career criminal".  this is known world history.
> 
> ...



Explain Mexico.  They don't have easy access to guns.  Neither do NYC, Chicago, Washington DC or the UK.  Their murder and violence rates are through the roof.


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## LAM (Jan 25, 2013)

Mexico?  you mean the place with no minimum wage, one of the lowest labor union density rates in the OECD and a high population with low wage service sector (almost 60% of the jobs) that can't support the population.  25% of the Mexican labor force is also under-employed.  all this sounds familiar doesn't it?

the Mexican economy is designed for export, consumables are imported from manufactures like Walmart, etc.  and they pay the same price for a shirt there as we do in the US except the average annual income in Mexico is like $12k a year.

concentrated poverty in the metro and non-metro areas.  the only real low crime areas in Mexico are those that cater to tourism.

look to Mexico for the future of the US.....


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## troubador (Jan 25, 2013)

There's little support for the causal relationship between gun ownership and murder rate. Most studies that show a correlation between gun ownership and murder limit themselves to a selective sample. A simple cross comparison doesn't show causality at all. Since we want to see the effect of gun ownership and really gun laws we need time series data. It's the same issue I've been pointed out about comparing the murder in the US to places like the UK. The UK has a lower murder rate but so did it before the strict gun bans were passed.


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## Swiper (Jan 25, 2013)

LAM said:


> Mexico?  you mean the place with no minimum wage, one of the lowest labor union density rates in the OECD and a high population with low wage service sector (almost 60% of the jobs) that can't support the population.  25% of the Mexican labor force is also under-employed.  all this sounds familiar doesn't it?
> 
> the Mexican economy is designed for export, consumables are imported from manufactures like Walmart, etc.  and they pay the same price for a shirt there as we do in the US except the average annual income in Mexico is like $12k a year.
> 
> ...



zaphod asked about Mexico's gun violence and you go off about their economy.  not one word about their gun problem.  you may have ADD or some kind of mental issue(s).   you do this all the time.  what's the deal?  do you have friends outside the Internet? how do you get along with people in real life outside the Internet?


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## LAM (Jan 25, 2013)

Swiper said:


> zaphod asked about Mexico's gun violence and you go off about their economy.



you should try reading.  where did he ask specifically about gun violence?

there is a direct correlation with crime and economics, anybody with an IQ over 60 knows this.  only ignorant stupid bigots think crime is associated with race.


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## Zaphod (Jan 25, 2013)

LAM said:


> you should try reading.  where did he ask specifically about gun violence?
> 
> there is a direct correlation with crime and economics, anybody with an IQ over 60 knows this.  only ignorant stupid bigots think crime is associated with race.





> Explain Mexico. *They don't have easy access to guns.* Neither do NYC, Chicago, Washington DC or the UK. *Their murder and violence rates are through the roof.*



I didn't?


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