# Creatine



## bdmagnum (Oct 22, 2004)

Hello to all,
I am currently taking 1 tsp of Creatine Monohydrate with Grape Juice after my workout.  I have been reading the boards for quite some time and have read that people are using products like Swole V2, V-12 Turbo, Satur8, just to name a few.  I understand that each product works differently for each person.  My question is, what product worked best for you, as far as "pump" and strength?


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## Du (Oct 22, 2004)

Pure creatine monohydrate with grape juice. One kilogram (2.2lbs) for about 20 bucks. Cant really beat it. 

I take it pre-workout though. Ill be using this until Rob comes out with his IronMagLabs product in January.


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## Arnold (Oct 22, 2004)

there are a couple of things to understand, many of those products contain many other things besides creatine, also many of us do not respond well to creatine monohydrate and that is where things like Tri-Creatine Malate become worthwhile. I personally use SAN V-12, until I get my own version of it on the market, hopefully in the next few months.


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## redspy (Oct 22, 2004)

Other: Creatine Ethyl Ester.


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## Pirate! (Oct 22, 2004)

Since this is a topic no one has touched upon in previous threads...


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## gococksDJS (Oct 22, 2004)

whats creatine?


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## Du (Oct 22, 2004)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> whats creatine?


I heard its a steroid.


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## gococksDJS (Oct 22, 2004)

do i snort it?


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## Du (Oct 22, 2004)

I'd lace a joint with it.


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## Pirate! (Oct 22, 2004)

Shame on you guys!   You have made a mockery of this man's thread!


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## busyLivin (Oct 22, 2004)

Craetine Monohydrate is leading.. I never heard of that one.


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## Du (Oct 22, 2004)

busyLivin said:
			
		

> Craetine Monohydrate is leading.. I never heard of that one.


Its the dyslexic version.


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## busyLivin (Oct 22, 2004)

du510 said:
			
		

> Its the dyslexic version.



ahh, i'll hvae to gvie it a shot.


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## Du (Oct 22, 2004)

busyLivin said:
			
		

> ahh, i'll hvae to gvie it a shot.


True to form, you dont drink it. It comes as a suppository.


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## busyLivin (Oct 22, 2004)

du510 said:
			
		

> True to form, you dont drink it. It comes as a suppository.


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## redspy (Oct 22, 2004)

This thread is officially hijacked.


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## nunya53 (Oct 23, 2004)

Damn hijackers....... 

Anyways...anyone have an opinion on Myogenix 99.9% pure Creatine Monohydrate?  My local health store carries and I thought I would give it a shot...


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## samat631 (Nov 18, 2004)

im taking san v12 right now for about 2 months and love the stuff, how well does ester creatine stand up to tri creatine or di creatine?


can anybody recamend a relatively inexpensive ester creatine (around 30 bucks) that is working well for them


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## busyLivin (Nov 18, 2004)

samat631 said:
			
		

> im taking san v12 right now for about 2 months and love the stuff, how well does ester creatine stand up to tri creatine or di creatine?
> 
> 
> can anybody recamend a relatively inexpensive ester creatine (around 30 bucks) that is working well for them


pretty sure redspy takes the ethyl ester..  maybe ask him


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## TaylorsNutrition (Nov 18, 2004)

Creatin monohydrate is good, but gives me freaking headaches like you want believe. I have to take a shit load of tylenol when I am on that stuff.


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## cman (Nov 18, 2004)

du510 said:
			
		

> Its the dyslexic version.


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## DOMS (Nov 22, 2004)

coppilot said:
			
		

> Creatin monohydrate is good, but gives me freaking headaches like you want believe. I have to take a shit load of tylenol when I am on that stuff.


 It must not be an "everyone" thing because I take Creatine Monohydrate every day and nary a headache.


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## busyLivin (Nov 22, 2004)

coppilot said:
			
		

> Creatin monohydrate is good, but gives me freaking headaches like you want believe. I have to take a shit load of tylenol when I am on that stuff.


I wouldn't be taking it if i had to consistently chase it with tylenol


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## soxmuscle (Nov 30, 2004)

Monohydrate for me.  It sucks im too big of a pussy to take it, because I think I might be one of the biggest creatine responders around.


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## LAM (Nov 30, 2004)

coppilot said:
			
		

> Creatin monohydrate is good, but gives me freaking headaches like you want believe. I have to take a shit load of tylenol when I am on that stuff.



sounds like you are probably dehydrated when taking creatine.  you should be drinking at least 1-1.5 gallons of water a day...


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## Newt (Dec 1, 2004)

I agree that creatine monohydrate is the best, just plain simple creatine. Other than that, Cell Tech works well but it is to expensive. I did some research and the main ingrediants in Cell Tech are creatine mono and alpha lipoic acid. I just bought a bottle of each for about the same price as the Cell Tech and got about 50 more servings as well as great results.


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## gococksDJS (Dec 1, 2004)

The main ingredient in celltech is 1-alpha-3beta-walletdrainer


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## busyLivin (Dec 1, 2004)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> The main ingredient in celltech is 1-alpha-3beta-walletdrainer


common ingredient in many supplements


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## Tha Don (Dec 2, 2004)

monohydrate

tried v-12 turbo... no difference for me really, just a LOT more expensive!

I respond very well to monohydrate and dextrose

will be trying CEE next month, hopefully I will get the same results as from mono but without the need for the dextrose

peace


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## Flakko (Dec 18, 2004)

*New!!!*

 I work in a supplements store and we sell a product called: Strip cleanser, is inteded to clean your system. Like your liver, intestines, etc...

But that's not about it...

It contains Creatine Monohydrate!!! 
I was like, uh??? I mean, I didn't know creatine monohydrate had cleansing properties!!! I've heard the opposite, that is bad for your kidneys, but anyway, does anybody knows about Creatine Monohydrate as a cleanser???


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## Curlingcadys (Dec 19, 2004)

EAS Phosphagen HP and XT worked well for me in all aspects...too bad XT is discontinued by EAS but you can still find it here and there but I'll be looking for a new creatine to go to not sure what yet though...


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## simbh (Dec 20, 2004)

Just bought some CEX from vpx. A lot of people said it cost a lot but it's pretty much the same as v-12 turbo in terms of price. Cuz in a 360g bottle you have for 2 months compared with v-12 turbo where you have for 1 months worth. I'll post what results I have within a few weeks.


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## Flakko (Dec 20, 2004)

*Trac*

What ya people think about TRAC by MHP???

I have good feedback, but have never used it, but it seems to be good, no sugar and 4g of Arginine per serving.

I also bought VPX's CEX too, I'm about to start it, but I was wondering if there is any problem if I'm using Creatine Monohydrate or if I can use them both...

I was planning to use CEX 30 min b4 the gym and early in the morning before breakfast. But some people say the use 1 serving b4 workout and another after.


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## iMan323 (Dec 20, 2004)

I thought I responded to creatine well, but then I stopped using it after a lay-off...and...no difference.  I see no reason to continue taking it.  Since I stopped taking creatine my strength has stayed the same, muscular endurance unaffected, and I'm no longer thirsty...  I think it's an overrated substance.


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## simbh (Dec 21, 2004)

Creatine is creatine , I don't know why you would need to take monohydrate if you already take cex.


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## stacker2ephedra (Dec 22, 2004)

Cough cough.


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## crimsondestinyx (Jan 2, 2005)

i cant' decide between monohydrate and ethylester


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## busyLivin (Jan 2, 2005)

crimsondestinyx said:
			
		

> i cant' decide between monohydrate and ethylester


have you tried both?  why not try both then decide?


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## Vieope (Jan 2, 2005)

busyLivin said:
			
		

> have you tried both?  why not try both then decide?


_What is both? Is it a new supplement from Ironmaglabs? Is both really good? _


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## busyLivin (Jan 2, 2005)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _What is both? Is it a new supplement from Ironmaglabs? Is both really good? _





'Both'...excellent stuff, V. Massive pumps.

Not recommended for bunnies, though


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## Vieope (Jan 2, 2005)




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## gococksDJS (Jan 3, 2005)

Flakko said:
			
		

> does anybody knows about Creatine Monohydrate as a cleanser???


 I add 10 grams to a cup of baking soda and it really gets the grime and tile grout off my shower. Wait....are you supposed to swallow it?


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## Skate67 (Jan 6, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> The main ingredient in celltech is 1-alpha-3beta-walletdrainer



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OMFG!!~@#!@    

sorry to bring this thread back up but man.... i seriously think i just shat myself. ahahahahah oh man you just made my day.


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## Curlingcadys (Feb 8, 2005)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _What is both? Is it a new supplement from Ironmaglabs? Is both really good? _


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## Warren[BigW] (Feb 14, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> do i snort it?


 

you boil creatine down and inject. MASSIVE GAINS GRRR..


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## SavageHenry (Feb 19, 2005)

I've been taking ethyl esther for a few months now and I love the stuff. I'm responding to it alot better than monohydrate. I would get bloated on monohydrate and I don't on the ethyl esther stuff. I used plain monohydrate, betagen & celltech before. I like this ethyl esther the best. I got a kilo for around 50 bucks. More pricey than monohydrate but it's worth it to me.


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## BigDyl (Mar 7, 2005)

I remeber a few years back, my doctor was like "Don't take creatine, there aren't enough studies proving it's safe, and it probably has harmful long term side effects."  Or something like that.


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## GetJact (Mar 7, 2005)

Quit spamming or you will be banned.


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## Seanp156 (Mar 8, 2005)

Other: VNS Jacked - CEE with NO2. I also have 1.7 lbs of Xpand after the VNS is gone which is CEE + NO2, taurine, glutamine and some other stuff.


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## w.a.r_32 (Dec 22, 2005)

Ethel Ester


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## Arnold (Dec 24, 2005)

www.ironmaglabs.com/maximum-pump.html


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## Fifedogg (Feb 21, 2006)

I use Kre-Alkalyn CEE.  Just seems easier to take it in Pill form than a drink.  Especially when you drink 1 1/2 - 2 Gallons of water a day.


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## darkt (Mar 9, 2006)

creatine gives me the runs. yea....


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## dove_corona (Apr 4, 2006)

is a tea spoon of creatine pre-workout goin to be beneficial?


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## Trouble (Apr 4, 2006)

A word about creatine absorption.

I've tried both the monohydrate and creatine ethyl ester.  Repeatedly, over a three year period.  Time and again the side effects of the monohydrate forced me to discontinue use.  I gave it away to gym rat friends.

After a brief acclamation period (a few days), the creaine ethyl ester (CEE) caused none of the side effects, bloating and gut irritation, that I'd experienced with the monohydrate.

I presumed it was a function of acidity.  Didn't think anything more of it.

Recently, I came across an 2004 article that questioned whether or not the harsh conditions needed for drying creatine (which is hygroscopic, meaning it "sucks up and holds water at its surface, which chemists refer to a hydration lattice) to the monohydrate form.

These investigators found, quite unexpectedly, that the heated and dried creatine formed dimers.  It polymerized.  Oh oh.

The anount of dimerization within a batch depends on the drying rate and heat used in processing.  Polymerization means that the creatine is no longer in a monomer state, needed for binding to both receptors on genes and to enzymes, since it participates in an important sequence of chemical reactions in cells.

So you have this acidic small polymer hanging arbout the intestines, not quite as readily absorbed into the gut lining, for untake into the blood supply.  Its sucking up water, and its acidic.  Its probably causing mild irritation, especially at higher loading doses.

Note that CEE, with its hydration in place and lack of acidity, is taken up quickly.  Its more efficiently absorbed and utilized.

Is it any better than the monohydrate?  Depends.  Is it being used at high enough dose to cause gut irriation and bloating, even gas production (when local gut bacteria eat it for lunch)?  Has the processing caused it to be less well absorbed?  

Then yeah, use of the CEE form might be more senible.  

I was always curious about responders versus nonresponders.  I think we have a question of gut acid production (needed for proper digestion), of a tendency towards gut irritation (a side effect of stress and improperly controlled nerves in the spine, and thats a function of brain chemistry - and liver chemistry, as I'll discuss in other threads).  Another factor is creatine processing source.  If the compound is slowly dired over lower heat, no problemo, eh?  Its not dimerizered (polymerized), and its bioavailable - if you have the right stomach acidity and you don't have food absorption problems from those nerves in the gut being activated by stress conditions).

Its a coin toss.  You try creatine monohydrate. If it doesn't cause problems, use it.  Its cheaper and has a great track record as one of the few supplements that appears to perform as claimed.

If you try the monohydrate at the recommended doses and you have side effects, try the CEE instead.

You can use lower doses and its still quite effective.  It shouldn't cause the side effects commonly reported for the monohydrate.

One partng comment:  you shouldn't cycle use of creatine.  Use it continuously while training.  You should use a very important anti-oxidant called NAC, n-acetylcysteine.

The reason lies in the chemistry of phosphocreatine in cells.  It undergoes a reaction that can cause a buildup of protons, acid, within mitochondria in liver and in skeletal muscle cells.

Its not a big deal while you are exercising, but if you stop for a rest and contnue to use creatine supplements, it can turn up fat storage and turn down glucose utilization. Not good.

Most folks on the net are oblivious to tis fact.  It came out of a review of creatine metabolism, back in 2004, but it started with some clever questions asked by physiologiists back in 2001, when they noted the shift in energy metabolism by creatine users during exercise and during rest periods.

It took a few years for the reason to become understood and explained.  The short answer is that NAC acts like a base and prevents the buildup of protons in the mitochondria that short circuits fatty acid burning (lipolysis) when theres a lot of creatine present.

Pretty cool, eh?  So tuck this hint under your belt.  If you want to get the most bang for buck for your creatine supplement dollar, add a little NAC (500-600mg, 2-3 times per day).  No, do not tank up on this suppment - the less is more school of thought is true here,  here in terms of what its does, only use the 3x per day if you're a big sucker, 250+ bls.  Maximum dosing is about 2100 mg per day.  Try to stick to 1500-1800 mg, instead.


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## BulkMeUp (Apr 4, 2006)

Wow. Informative read! 
I always had the issues you mentioned with mono and recently switched to CEE. Prior to CEE, i tried Tri-Malate. It was fine, but CEE seemes more cost effective.


			
				Trouble said:
			
		

> Its not a big deal while you are exercising, but if you *stop for a rest* and contnue to use creatine supplements, it can turn up fat storage and turn down glucose utilization. Not good.


What rest period are you referring to? A week off between training cycles or a longer break from the gym? I stop taking creatine when i'm off from the gym.


			
				Trouble said:
			
		

> You should use a very important anti-oxidant called NAC, n-acetylcysteine.


Just read that this needs to be taken on an empty stomach. Kinda diff to do that with the constant chowing down 6 times a day!


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## Trouble (Apr 4, 2006)

A break of more than a few days will cause the metabolic switch from creatine induced pH changes in liver and muscle cells.  

I use creatine, in small doses, loading up before and continuing after exertion.  I add it to my drink water, with BCAAs and a few other water soluble supps.

I use an inexpensive motored drink blender (looks like a shaker with a motorized shaft atached to the domed lid. The end of the shaft if y-shaped and this creates a strong vortex for mixing BCAA and other slow dissolving supps). Costs about 10 bucks and lasts for years.  

So my hydration water becomes my lower dose CEE source. And I am loading cells throughout the day, which is a more efficient means of absorbing creatine than single bolus dose (parachuting dry powder) before exercise.


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## BulkMeUp (Apr 5, 2006)

Trouble said:
			
		

> I use creatine, in small doses, loading up before and continuing after exertion.  I add it to my drink water, with BCAAs and a few other water soluble supps.
> 
> So my hydration water becomes my lower dose CEE source. And I am loading cells throughout the day, which is a more efficient means of absorbing creatine than single bolus dose (parachuting dry powder) before exercise.


I usually take 1tsp along with my prewo shake (and 1/2 tsp with my pwo shake). Are you suggesting it is better to take it in smaller amounts, say 1/2 a tsp at different intervals of the day and with water and BCAA's only? Not with food?

Edit: Was reading up on NAC. I came accross a suggestion "When taking L-cysteine, N-acetyl-cysteine, or glutathione, it is recommended that three times as much vitamin C should be taken at the same time to prevent these amino acids from being oxidized in the body." Would you suggest that as well?


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## Trouble (Apr 5, 2006)

BulkMeUp said:
			
		

> Was reading up on NAC. I came accross a suggestion "When taking L-cysteine, N-acetyl-cysteine, or glutathione, it is recommended that three times as much vitamin C should be taken at the same time to prevent these amino acids from being oxidized in the body." Would you suggest that as well?



Yes, I recommend 500mg-1gram several times a day (3x preferred).


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## pengers84 (Jun 16, 2006)

Trouble,  is it more effective to have more frequent smaller doses of CEE?  If so, how small?  How many a day?

With regards to NAC, are you saying 500mg-1g vit c along with 500mg-600mg NAC, 3 times a day?

Where do you ge NAC?


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## Nick+ (Jun 16, 2006)

Took a German brand for 3 or so months one teaspoonfull mixed with grape juice before a workout (name? I can't remember), until 2 months ago. Stuff definately seemed to work. When I stopped taking it ,I lost a 1/4" off the upper arm, which is proving harder to regain without the creatine......

What I object to with the stuff, is that one has to go on taking it forever, to benefit from it. When I stopped using it, it was a right piss off losing the strength and size. I don't want to go through that again, so will be more wary about restarting creatine in the future.


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