# Q and A with TwisT and heavyiron



## Arnold (Dec 29, 2010)

*Cant find the answers that you want or have an issue with your cycle? Feel free to post them here, and we will answer you as soon as we can.* 

_I'm T. I've been around the game for a while, began powerlifting at 17, evolved into a amateur bodybuilder, but went off that path to go into more of the AAS research and personal training fields. I've used almost all of todays common compounds, and a few of those that aren't quite so common (anymore). My passion for AAS began as it is such a limited field, and there is so much to know and explore through research. Every day bodybuilders evolve, and I believe a huge part of this evolution is the advancement of these performance-enhancing chemicals. I spend my time reading technical journals, personal training locally and over the internet, and playing hockey when I'm taking a day off from the gym._ 



_I have used many of these compounds on and off for over 23 years. I have a love for science as it relates to chemical enhancement and have spent countless hours reading about their effects. I believe that safe and responsible use begins with an understanding of these chemicals. My desire is that everyone will educate themselves before using any medications. I am a chemical consultant on various forums on the net where I lead the chemical enhancement sections. I specialize in designing custom cycles based on the experience level and goals of an individual. Many times I troubleshoot unwanted symptoms from improper cycling. I love learning and teaching in this evolving field._

~heavyiron~


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## cutright (Dec 29, 2010)

Hey guys thanks for all the info! I can read for days now...I got a question on my next cycle..I'm running test prop and masteron 200 200mg per ml I wanted to see your thoughts on dosage and schedule for the masteron.
5'11
210 lbs
14-16% bf
32
This will be my second cycle. First cycle is test E 500mg week 10weeks


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## TwisT (Dec 29, 2010)

A good goal for mast is about 300-600mg/week. With the prop ester, you need to inject at least every other day. 50mg EoD will give you 350mg/week, while 75mg EoD will give you 525mg/week. Being your second cycle, I think you would do just fine and see results from 50mg eod.

-T 



cutright said:


> Hey guys thanks for all the info! I can read for days now...I got a question on my next cycle..I'm running test prop and masteron 200 200mg per ml I wanted to see your thoughts on dosage and schedule for the masteron.
> 5'11
> 210 lbs
> 14-16% bf
> ...


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## cutright (Dec 29, 2010)

The masteron I got is GP mast 200..it has the Enthanate 150mg and Prop 50mg. Would I still want to dose this @50mg eod..or would 200mg twice a week work because of the Enth ester?


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## TwisT (Dec 29, 2010)

cutright said:


> The masteron I got is GP mast 200..it has the Enthanate 150mg and Prop 50mg. Would I still want to dose this @50mg eod..or would 200mg twice a week work because of the Enth ester?



Seems silly to me to have those two esters together in the same compound... 1/2 ml injections EoD will give you about that. 7 injections over 14 days = 3.5 injections@100mg per injection/week = 350mg/week. But with the enanthate ester, the weekly dose is going to build up. Your first week will be short.


-T


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## cutright (Dec 29, 2010)

Cool...thanks for the info! Great section man...good work...props to you and Heavyiron


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## bknoxx (Dec 31, 2010)

Been doing alot of reading and asking questions  mostly Heavyiron lol i bug him all the time wich im very great full for every ones help i have gotten ty

*Weeks 1-7: Test  C 500mg/week
Weeks 7-15: Test  C 750mg/week 
 Weeks 1-4: Metha-drol 20mg/day
Weeks 1-17: e-control  1 cap ed
Weeks 10-15: dbol        30mg ed
Week 17: Begin PCT* 

this wht im gonna go with.. had some help setting it up by asking a bunch of questions lol thx HI
wht ya think


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## TwisT (Jan 1, 2011)

bknoxx said:


> Been doing alot of reading and asking questions  mostly Heavyiron lol i bug him all the time wich im very great full for every ones help i have gotten ty
> 
> *Weeks 1-7: Test  C 500mg/week
> Weeks 7-15: Test  C 750mg/week
> ...



That looks solid! The only change I made was moved the dbol at the end back two weeks. While it will still push gains, it helps keep it further away from PCT... in theory not making your PCT more difficult... Idk if I explained that clearly... let me know if you're confused. Other then that, solid!

-T


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## heavyiron (Jan 1, 2011)

bknoxx said:


> Been doing alot of reading and asking questions mostly Heavyiron lol i bug him all the time wich im very great full for every ones help i have gotten ty
> 
> *Weeks 1-6: Test C 500mg/week*
> *Weeks 7-15: Test C 750mg/week *
> ...


*See clarification in red above.*

Week 7 had an overlap of 2 different T doses so I corrected it.

The METHA-DROL is not 20mg but rather 2 caps.

You may consider 500iu HCG on cycle every 4 days to aid in recovery.


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## bknoxx (Jan 1, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> *See clarification in red above.*
> 
> Week 7 had an overlap of 2 different T doses so I corrected it.
> 
> ...



ty sir yes im looking into getting some hcg as we speak and thx for fixing my mistakes i thought the meth was 10mg caps lol  u da man HI


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## bknoxx (Jan 1, 2011)

TwisT said:


> That looks solid! The only change I made was moved the dbol at the end back two weeks. While it will still push gains, it helps keep it further away from PCT... in theory not making your PCT more difficult... Idk if I explained that clearly... let me know if you're confused. Other then that, solid!
> 
> -T



ty twist u and heavy are awesome he fixed my mistakes hehe i will move my dbol so ill be done sooner but 14 days after last inject, is correct ? for pct


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## heavyiron (Jan 1, 2011)

bknoxx said:


> ty twist u and heavy are awesome he fixed my mistakes hehe i will move my dbol so ill be done sooner but 14 days after last inject, is correct ? for pct


 There is no need to move the d-bol unless you want to move it the other direction closer to PCT. This scheme keeps gains rolling right up until the end of the cycle. I placed the d-bol timing for this very reason.


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## bknoxx (Jan 1, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> There is no need to move the d-bol unless you want to move it the other direction closer to PCT. This scheme keeps gains rolling right up until the end of the cycle. I placed the d-bol timing for this very reason.



 i will leave it to the end like it was suits me just fine lol
  i was reading hcg can cause gyno if used in high doses as well i know 500iu would be ok i was just wondering if tht was true


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## heavyiron (Jan 1, 2011)

bknoxx said:


> i will leave it to the end like it was suits me just fine lol
> i was reading hcg can cause gyno if used in high doses as well i know 500iu would be ok i was just wondering if tht was true


 HCG will raise T levels and that may aromatize to E2 but at 500iu I wouldn't sweat it not to metion your AI will stop the aromatization.


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## bknoxx (Jan 1, 2011)

ty brudda


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## TGB1987 (Feb 24, 2011)

What do you guys think about saw palmetto while on cycle?  I have heard people say that it will inhibit gains or could increase estro?  I saw that it is in ironmag cycle assist  that I just ordered and I was wondering what you guys think about it.  I know it is good for the prostate and the hairline from what I could find online.  I just don't know how it reacts with AAS.  Also do you think that ironmag E control could be enough estro support for a light cycle say 500mg of test I usually use 12.5 mg of aromasin eod to every third day while on cycle?


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## TwisT (Feb 25, 2011)

You wont see it effect your gains to any extent... especially at that dose. Its g2g while on cycle. On Cycle Support is great stuff, I definitely recommend it.

-T


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## Nightowl (Feb 25, 2011)

I have a few questions:


1. Can I use a 31xgauge for B complex and B12?


2. What is the smallest needle gauge allowed for AAS? Can one use a 27 or 28 for clen, or winny or any AAS? Is there anything smaller than a 25x gauge that can be used?



I have 28 right now for my vitamins, but leaning for less on all levels * if allowed


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## TwisT (Feb 25, 2011)

1- Should be fine, if not you can always use a 29

2- Ive heard of people using a 27, but the lowest I would go is 25 and even that is very tough to push the oil through. You want the needle out of you ASAP, having it sit in you for 5 minutes moving around is really bad for your tissue.

-T



Nightowl said:


> I have a few questions:
> 
> 
> 1. Can I use a 31xgauge for B complex and B12?
> ...


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## TGB1987 (Feb 25, 2011)

TwisT said:


> You wont see it effect your gains to any extent... especially at that dose. Its g2g while on cycle. On Cycle Support is great stuff, I definitely recommend it.
> 
> -T


 
Thanks the on cycle support came in today can't wait to use it next cycle.


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## Runner22 (Feb 25, 2011)

I posted this in another thread, but since you're offering "Q&A", well here it goes.  To the others, sorry if this is a repeat.

I'm near the end of wk 3 of the below cycle and surprising to me, I have nipple sensitivity and have been battling water retention (retaining one day and dehydration the next/ pssing like crazy). I think I'm doing all the right things, but I thought this would be more under control than it is, especially the sensitivity. Although, I've had issues with gyno in the past, but never used an AI. 

wk 1-4...40mg GP Dbol
wk 1-8...500mg GP TestE
wk 1-8 & PCT...12.5mg GP Aromasin ED (switched to EOD for a while, but back to ED)

Also, I started taking 40mg GP Nolva and plan to taper to 20mgs for a week or until sensitivity is gone. Is a little sensitivity normal?

I was planning a blood test for next week to see if my AI dosage was too high, but apparently not. Maybe I should switch to 25mg ED? Seems like a lot for what I'm running, no? Thoughts...suggestions? What other info do you need?

Thanks in advance!


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## TwisT (Feb 25, 2011)

If your at 12.5mg ED now then yes, increase the dose to 25mg ed and see where you at at in 5 days of running that.

-T



Runner22 said:


> I posted this in another thread, but since you're offering "Q&A", well here it goes.  To the others, sorry if this is a repeat.
> 
> I'm near the end of wk 3 of the below cycle and surprising to me, I have nipple sensitivity and have been battling water retention (retaining one day and dehydration the next/ pssing like crazy). I think I'm doing all the right things, but I thought this would be more under control than it is, especially the sensitivity. Although, I've had issues with gyno in the past, but never used an AI.
> 
> ...


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## Ravager (Feb 26, 2011)

How exactly does raising TEST in your system help build muscle?


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## TwisT (Feb 26, 2011)

Ravager said:


> How exactly does raising TEST in your system help build muscle?



Check the testosterone profile in the steroid profiles section


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## exphys88 (Mar 25, 2011)

question about increasing AI dose during PCT:

I have seen many recommendations for people to increase their AI dose during PCT, but don't understand the need to do so.  If say, 12.5 mg EOD of Aromasin is keeping estradiol levels in the desired range on cycle, why would we need more AI when we have less test in our system, and less test for the aromatase enzyme to work with?

The typical response is "your E2 levels will be sky high during pct."  What is the physiological mechanism for having high E2 with low test?  Doesn't E2 primarily come from test?

Thanks for your time


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## Nightowl (Mar 29, 2011)

Words of wisdom seeked
Okay, I thought it best to bring it to you first before I go elsewhere in the pinning sector.

How do one clear the chances with scars with the use of needles?  

Is it really better for the Anabolics to go in this way then orals?

Why?

Someone mentioned that it was less on the liver. My friend, that I call Hitler, still says no matter what it still goes through the liver, and is processed.


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## TwisT (Mar 29, 2011)

There really is no need to raise AI if E is staying in desired range



exphysiologist88 said:


> question about increasing AI dose during PCT:
> 
> I have seen many recommendations for people to increase their AI dose during PCT, but don't understand the need to do so.  If say, 12.5 mg EOD of Aromasin is keeping estradiol levels in the desired range on cycle, why would we need more AI when we have less test in our system, and less test for the aromatase enzyme to work with?
> 
> ...


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## TwisT (Mar 29, 2011)

Spot rotation, dont pin the same muscle in the same week



Nightowl said:


> Words of wisdom seeked
> Okay, I thought it best to bring it to you first before I go elsewhere in the pinning sector.
> 
> How do one clear the chances with scars with the use of needles?
> ...


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## Imosted (Apr 6, 2011)

I have been trying to figure this out, 
Ok so primo is the the Safest gear out there. My question is Would it be to harsh on my body if i use 500-600mg a week of primo rather than test e 200-250 mg a week  or use them both while cruising?. 
Something like
Blast 10 weeks then use 200-250 test e and 500 or 600 primo for 10 weeks?


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## TwisT (Apr 6, 2011)

Imosted said:


> Blast 10 weeks then use 200-250 test e and 500 or 600 primo for 10 weeks?




You would see some nice gains from that... as long as the primo is real and your willing to pay the big $$ for it. 100% real primo is very hard to come by now, so be aware. But let heavy chip in too, as I believe he is on a blast + cruise routine and I am not.

-T


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## Imosted (Apr 6, 2011)

It will be real i am from Turkey but living in Canada..asked couple of friends if they can send it to me they said sure so i will be getting real primo for a freaking cheap price... not sure if i can post the price of primo at the pharmacy here but man its so cheap.


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## LightBearer (Apr 6, 2011)

Twist and heavy whats up!!
Im a newb  and will be starting a first  cycle of 500mg test-e per week
i have an overstock of AI;s and serms, im very worried about running into gyno on cycle and would like to run exemestane, but dont want to hinder my gains too much.  would it be okay for me to start out by splitting a 25mg exemestane pill into quarters and taking one quarter tab per day (6.25mg)?
i dont have any pre-existing gyno although my nipples seem to look a little puffy all my life


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## TwisT (Apr 6, 2011)

LightBearer said:


> would it be okay for me to start out by splitting a 25mg exemestane pill into quarters and taking one quarter tab per day (6.25mg)?





-T


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## heavyiron (Apr 7, 2011)

LightBearer said:


> Twist and heavy whats up!!
> Im a newb and will be starting a first cycle of 500mg test-e per week
> i have an overstock of AI;s and serms, im very worried about running into gyno on cycle and would like to run exemestane, but dont want to hinder my gains too much. would it be okay for me to start out by splitting a 25mg exemestane pill into quarters and taking one quarter tab per day (6.25mg)?
> i dont have any pre-existing gyno although my nipples seem to look a little puffy all my life


 Aromasin will not hinder lean gains at all. I would just split the pills and take 12.5 mg daily. Get E2 labs 3-4 weeks later and see if you need more aromasin.


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## Nirvana (Apr 8, 2011)

I posted this yesterday in the "research chemicals" thread and it go no attention.
can either one of you help me out?
Much appreciated!

Post:

It's seem i cannot find any "basic" information regarding these 3  peptides combined. All the research I've found has been for them  individually.
Just want to know if HGH Frag and CJC 1293 can be injected in the same  syringe. I know IGF needs to go IM so that one is on it's own.
If not, please explain why, and if the 2 make for a good combination or not.
Thanks in advance.


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## Nightowl (Apr 13, 2011)

So I have another question, for which I believe Twist would be interested in this:

Peptides, are they bad, for it has been said they produce too much Cortisol and prolactin.  Can you tell us bit about this?  Is it depending upon what a person is trying to do that would switch it from anabolics to peptides?


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## Imosted (Apr 13, 2011)

So i went to doc last week got blood work done, everything is on point, and i asked her to get my test levels checked. So my free test level is 3.4 she said it is low but still in healthy level. She is going to check it again in 3 months, i kinda want to get on  TRT. she said lets wait for next check. Should i go on a cycle and time the ending for the test so i can lower my free test or any suggestions on what i can do to be able be prescribed some test?
Sorry for the bad grammar. after being 8 years in canada it still  sux


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## Imosted (Apr 13, 2011)

Ps I am 28


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## Ravager (Apr 18, 2011)

HeavyIron you are an inspiration sir. You are one built dude. Well done.


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## heavyiron (Apr 18, 2011)

Imosted said:


> So i went to doc last week got blood work done, everything is on point, and i asked her to get my test levels checked. So my free test level is 3.4 she said it is low but still in healthy level. She is going to check it again in 3 months, i kinda want to get on TRT. she said lets wait for next check. Should i go on a cycle and time the ending for the test so i can lower my free test or any suggestions on what i can do to be able be prescribed some test?
> Sorry for the bad grammar. after being 8 years in canada it still sux


 You will be taking the chance that your steroid use will be found out. If you go in with a nill LH and FSH they may want to run further tests on you.


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## Imosted (Apr 18, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> You will be taking the chance that your steroid use will be found out. If you go in with a nill LH and FSH they may want to run further tests on you.



Here in Canada, health care is free so i don't worry about them finding it out.


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## heavyiron (Apr 18, 2011)

Run some cyp or enanthate and stop 4 weeks before your labs. No pct. You will be crashed.


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## Imosted (Apr 18, 2011)

sweet thanks


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## JCBourne (Apr 23, 2011)

Hey fellas, I made a thread but saw this hoping to get some good help!

Alright, so after tons of reading i'm still confused as HELL! 

I know some don't recommend BW water, however I have read it will be  good for a least 28 days, some even longer. I

I also read "suspending" it in BW, but I don't understand what this  means.

With 1mL of IGF-1, and 2mL of AA/BW, each line on a 1mL slin pin would  give me 10mcg?

Say i'm running 40mcg/day.Do you guys do half of the dose on one side,  half on the other? Meaning, say you do shoulder, you do 20mcg left side,  20mcg right side?

I don't really understand how to mix the AA, I know what it contains but  it confuses me to death. I would much rather mix it with the BW, and  once I mix it with the BW or AA, I just take whatever dose I need out of  the vial and inject correct?

And with doing 40mcg ed would mean that one vial of 1mg would last 25  days correct?


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## Nirvana (Apr 23, 2011)

GymRat707 said:


> Hey fellas, I made a thread but saw this hoping to get some good help!
> 
> Alright, so after tons of reading i'm still confused as HELL!
> 
> ...



Check this out:

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/research-chemicals/126601-beginners-guide-igf-1-lr3.html


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## JCBourne (Apr 24, 2011)

Great write-up man that helps a lot. Each line on the slin pin is a IU i'm assuming? Fuck, I really don't want to use AA cause then I'll have to go buy some filters, and I don't have 10mL syringe either only 5mL. So I would draw 2IU of the IGF/AA mix, and then draw 8UI of BW water to inject into each side of the body?


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## Nirvana (Apr 24, 2011)

GymRat707 said:


> Great write-up man that helps a lot. Each line on the slin pin is a IU i'm assuming? Fuck, I really don't want to use AA cause then I'll have to go buy some filters, and I don't have 10mL syringe either only 5mL. So I would draw 2IU of the IGF/AA mix, and then draw 8UI of BW water to inject into each side of the body?



The author's name is in the PDF so he is the one we have to thank for it.
You can buy AA online or just make it like the attachment explains.  Either way you gotta spend a few bucks. Just figure out the less  expensive route for your needs.
Here's a calculator too
Calculator

All that's left if for me to come to your house and inject you as well


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## JCBourne (Apr 24, 2011)

How come some people say they use BW with no problems?


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## Ravager (May 5, 2011)

What is the recommended AI for a typical Test/Deca Cycle?


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## Ravager (May 7, 2011)

Ravager said:


> What is the recommended AI for a typical Test/Deca Cycle?



I only ask because of the NOR-19 Deca...

I know Aromasin 12.5 EOD or so for the test, but same with 19-Nor? Or is there a prolactin specific?

I've done my research, but so much conflicting info. I'd like to hear your thoughts, as I highly respect your posts.


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## heavyiron (May 8, 2011)

Ravager said:


> I only ask because of the NOR-19 Deca...
> 
> I know Aromasin 12.5 EOD or so for the test, but same with 19-Nor? Or is there a prolactin specific?
> 
> I've done my research, but so much conflicting info. I'd like to hear your thoughts, as I highly respect your posts.


 I would increase my Aromasin. You could use Prami or Caber with the AI but many times increasing the AI will work.


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## dirtwarrior (Nov 25, 2011)

I am going to get blood work soon to test the potency of my gear.
I have been doing test e 300 @ 600 mg a week for 5 weeks.
QUESTIONS
1. should I wait longer to get blood test
2. what should test levels be (serum and total)
my test levels prior were in the 800's


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## heavyiron (Nov 25, 2011)

dirtwarrior said:


> I am going to get blood work soon to test the potency of my gear.
> I have been doing test e 300 @ 600 mg a week for 5 weeks.
> QUESTIONS
> 1. should I wait longer to get blood test
> ...


1. nope
2. sky f'ing high, like 2,400ng/dl but it depends on the relationship of the last pin to the blood draw.


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## dirtwarrior (Nov 25, 2011)

Is there a difference between total test and serum test levels?


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## dirtwarrior (Nov 25, 2011)

OK another question. Someone told me that blood test will show 2,400ng/dl even if the test was way under dosed.
T or F ?


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## RockShawn (Dec 16, 2011)

First off, Thanks for offering this!

Can you/should you use deca and eq at the same time? What would the doses look like?

Here's why I'm asking. I did a cycle in the spring with test deca and gained alot, also didn't have joint pain. then cruised for 4 weeks and started another cycle with test and eq - I wanted lean gains instead of all the bloat i got in the spring. I didn't see any sizable gains and my joints are killing me. I've tried every otc crap made to help joints and nothing works. below is my last cycle - currently cruising at 300 mg test/wk, 4iu hg and 500iu hcg/day, 50mg win/day. Planning my Jan 1 Blast

38yo. 247lb 11% 6'2"
12 weeks
750test e /wk
400eq / wk
dbol for the first 4 week
4iuHGH/day
450-500tren a /wk - weeks 2 - 10
50mg t3/day

I'll post separate what I'm planning for next blast.


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## fredlabrute (Dec 21, 2011)

*What is the best time of the day to take follistatin 344?*

Currently taking peptides in conjunction with the usual pct stuff...
HGH 3iu  per day
Follistatin 344 100mcg per day 10 days on-10 days off
CJC1295 without dac and GHRP-2 100 mcg of both spread 3 times during the day
IGF1-Des postworkout

Didn't find much about foollis,and it's all stuff from Extreme peps so...
When should i take it,first thing in the morning???Before bedtime????


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## FrankJames (Dec 21, 2011)

*Retaining Water Advice Needed*

I am 56 years old, good diet, 4 - 6 liters of water a day.
Work out 6 days a week, split routine, chest/back/legs next day shoulders/triceps/biceps/forearms 4 - 6 excercises per body part 3 sets of everything, 15 - 10 - 5 

So here is my cycle, i am about 4 weeks in.

50mg Deca
100mg Winstrol
150mg Test Cyp 
50mg Tren Acetate 
25mg Amarosin 
100 mcg Ghrp-2 Split into two shots First AM then Post afternoon workout
100mcg Mod Grf 1 -29 Split into two shots First AM then Post afternoon workout
4IU HGH Last thing at night
These are all Daily doses
Weekly i am doing 2ml Thymosin Beta 4 and about 1ml of Melanotin II.

The problem is i have gained a ton of water, about 25 lbs. i went to a dr, had blood work done, everything was good, no kidney liver issues etc... i got 20mg Lasix, and they do pretty much nothing. i am going back Friday for a follow up and hopefully get something stronger, but i am wondering what i am missing. I am thinking i will cut the Deca and possibly the Test till i get this under control.

Any thoughts are truly appreciated.


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## FrankJames (Dec 21, 2011)

Sorry, that is 100mg of test C


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## RockShawn (Dec 21, 2011)

FrankJames said:


> I am 56 years old, good diet, 4 - 6 liters of water a day.
> Work out 6 days a week, split routine, chest/back/legs next day shoulders/triceps/biceps/forearms 4 - 6 excercises per body part 3 sets of everything, 15 - 10 - 5
> 
> So here is my cycle, i am about 4 weeks in.
> ...



Deca and HGH are gonna make you retain water. Your also gonna gain water weight from long ester test. I wouldn't quit cold turkey especially on the test. Try shooting the HGH 2iu in the morning and 2iu before bed. You could cut the deca too, but like I said that is a side of bothe of those. 

Are the amounts you posted all daily amounts? You should only be pinning test c and deca o ce or twice a week depending on your total amount. Are you taking the HGH 5 on 2 off?

List total weekly mgs of oils. Weight and experience would be helpful too?


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## FrankJames (Dec 22, 2011)

Thanks, they are all daily amounts. i was doing the HGH at night only, and doing the GHRP and GRF to pulse during the day. 
THe HGH is daily... 365 a year...
6' 1" 250 before the water, 275 now.
Experience
Back in the day i was in the film industry and i cycled then. I got old, fat, and lazy, while i cannot do much about the age, the rest i can change. 

Started working out again about two years ago, dropped over 50 lbs, i have done some smaller cycles, test only, test/winnie in the past 2 years. i am making good gains, but then the water hit.
Not really sure what you mean by weekly oils, the injectables are in GSO.
test is 250/ml, winnie 50mg/ML, Tren 100mgs/ml Deca 300mgs/ML.
I prefer to pin smaller amounts daily since i am pinning anyway, so instead of (for example), doing Tren at 100 mg EOD i do 50 every day.

Thanks


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## RockShawn (Dec 23, 2011)

I dont know bro. You would get less water from test prop since your pinning every day. Try splitting g the HGH and cut back on the deca. I usually do winny on the backend of a cycle and at just 50 mg/day. Don't know if that could be contributing to the water - maybe if it's reacting wierd with something else. 

Are you sure your aramasin is g2g? Any other gyno type symptoms?

Might create a new thread in the anabolic section to get more info.


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## FrankJames (Dec 23, 2011)

Thanks i may do that. 
I got the amarosin from a sponser of good reputation here, but to be honest i have been wondering if it is under dosed, (i mean even good guys make mistakes), as my nipples have been a bit tender, but nothing major. The dosage i am taking should have been more than adequate. 
As of now, i have dropped the deca and will see how that goes for a few weeks.

I got a new prescription of a stronger diuretic, 25mgs of Hydrochlorothiazide, and i am taking pottasium with it, so we will see what it looks like a week from now.

Part of the bummer is that this has been a bad workout week, some physical because of the water, and some mental for the same reason. But as in all things, i will overcome.

My understanding is that the winnie and tren should actually help reduce the water.
Winstrol (Stanozolol) - Steroid .com

and 
In bodybuilding, stanozolol is typically "stacked" with other testosterone-based anabolic steroids. Stanozolol is preferred by many steroid users due to the fact that it causes strength increases without excess weight-gain, promotes increases in vascularity,[_citation needed_] and will not convert to estrogen. It also does not cause excess water retention, and is thought to have a diuretic effect on the body.[_citation needed_]
Stanozolol is commonly used by athletes and bodybuilders alike to lose fat while retaining lean body mass. It is usually used in a "cutting cycle", to help preserve lean body mass while metabolizing adipose, although it has not been proven conclusively that it has any special fat-burning properties.

Trenbolone - Steroid .com



Thanks for the input


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## Glycomann (Dec 23, 2011)

FrankJames said:


> I am 56 years old, good diet, 4 - 6 liters of water a day.
> Work out 6 days a week, split routine, chest/back/legs next day shoulders/triceps/biceps/forearms 4 - 6 excercises per body part 3 sets of everything, 15 - 10 - 5
> 
> So here is my cycle, i am about 4 weeks in.
> ...



Look into your carb intake.  That's the main culprit for my water retention.  I'm running test E at 600 and inj dianabol at 50 mg EOD with no water issues.  The dif is I am keeping my carbs in control.  200 g or less a day.  2 days a week I go up to 350-400 g.  I'm also in my 50s.


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## RockShawn (Dec 23, 2011)

Notice the key word in the winny description is "used in a cutting cycle" typically with prop. Winnie won't overcome the water retention of deca, HGH and cyp by itself. True tren is for hardening, but again you have alot of juice geared toward bulking not cutting. Switch deca to eq and you have more of a lean mass builder cycle.

I still think the Ed injections of test cyp and deca are Contributing but I don't have any science to back it up. Just a gut feel.


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## RockShawn (Dec 23, 2011)

Make sure you are drinking at least half your body weight in oz of water too.


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## Ezskanken (Jan 8, 2012)

This might be completely off, but I just want to make sure I am understanding correctly...

So I've been reading some on amiridex since I've been seeing it included during cycles instead of aromasin.  Heavy informed me that amiridex has a longer half life then aromasin, so is that why more people are running that during cycle, and aromasin in pct because of it's suicidal effect on estrogen?  Thanks, just trying to become more informed and up to date with the better protocols...


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## heavyiron (Jan 8, 2012)

Exactly, run a suicide inhibitor at the end.


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## Ezskanken (Jan 8, 2012)

Beautiful!  Thanks Heavy!


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## CityHunter (Jan 9, 2012)

Hi Guys,

I'm about to begin my first cycle, I'm quite scared but more excited by that!

With the help of Heavy Iron and some others great guys, here is what I plan. I think it is now pretty solid now but if you have any suggestions feel free to express.

Cycle :


Sunday : 10/12,5mg Aromasin / 1 quarter tablet of Proscar per day (1.25mg)

Monday : 10/12,5mg Aromasin / 500iu HCG / 1 quarter tablet of Procar per day (1.25mg)

Tuesday : 10/12,5mg Aromasin / 300mg Enanthate /1 quarter tablet of Proscar per day (1.25mg)

Wednesday : 10/12,5mg Aromasin / 1 quarter tablet of Proscar per day (1.25mg)

Thursday : 10/12,5mg Aromasin / 1 quarter tablet of Proscar per day (1.25mg)

Friday : 10/12,5mg Aromasin /300mg Enanthate / 1 quarter tablet of Proscar per day (1.25mg)

Saturday : 10/12,5mg Aromasin / 500iu HCG / 1 quarter tablet of Proscar per day (1.25mg)

---------------

Post Cycle Therapy :

2 weeks waiting the esters clear out with 2 injections of HCG. 1000iu HCG on monday and 1000iu on saturday 

100/75/50/50 Clomid (50mg taken twice per day during 3 weeks and the week 4, 50mg taken once per day) (is it enough???????)

20mg/20mg/20mg/10mg Aromasin (20mg daily for 3 weeks, 10mg daily in week 4)

3g Vit C every day split in 3 doses
10g creatine daily

1 quarter tablet of Proscar per day (1.25mg)

--------

DIET 

Calories : 3500-4000 calories each day (reaching the 4k progressively if not overkill and necessary)

Proteins : 300 grams or more (1,5g to 2G of proteins per pound of LBM)

Carbs : 300g

Fat : 100 grams (0,5g of fat per pound of LBM)

------------

TRAINING

Baby Got Back :

DAY 1 :

Rack pulls 5X5

BO rows 3X8

One-arm dumbbell 3x12 

Barbell bench 5X5

Dumbbell bench 3X8

Pectoral Fly 3X12 reps

Optional standing calves, one leg at a time, 3x12

Abdominos


DAY 2: 

Alternating dumbbell curls 5X5

3X8 supersets of :

- reps incline dumbbell curls 
- reps close grip pulldowns 

Squats 5X5

Front squats 3X8

Walking lunges 3X12 

GHR 3x8

Abdominos


DAY 3:

clean-and-press 5X5 

Weighted chins 3X8

Unweighted chins 5X5

Olympic bar corner press 3x8

lateral raises - 3x12

Adominos


DAY 4 :

Deadlift 5X5

GHR 3X8

Leg curl 5X5

Front Squat 3X8

Dips (lifted) 5X5

Closegrip barbell bench 3X8

Abdominos

------

Blood test before starting ( I have to analyse my T level and Tryglicerid)


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## CityHunter (Jan 10, 2012)

Went to the Lab. Today for blood test:

Testosterone
Estradiol 
Cholestérol HDL/LDL
Triglycerid
Phosphatase Alcaline
Bilirubin


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## heavyiron (Jan 27, 2012)

What were your results brother?


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## CityHunter (Jan 29, 2012)

Hey bro,

Alright, while I'm waiting my gear.... (PLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE come fast!!!!!)

I went to the lab to do a full blood test prior to my first cycle, here are the results :

Cholesterol : 1,55 g/L
                  4,01 mmol/L

Cholesterol HDL: 0,33 g/L
                       0,85 mmol/L

Total Cholesterol/HDL: 4,70

Cholesteol LDL: 0,94 g/L
                      2,43 mmol/L

Cholesterol HDL/LDL: 0,35

VLDL Cholesterol: 0,28g/L

Tryglycerids: 1,41 g/L
                  1,59 mmol/L

Phospatases alcalins: 46U/L

Testosterone: 7,93ng/ml  ( I was surprised to be that high. For a an adult guy the         rangeis between 2.8 to 11.00)
                  27,52nmol/L

Estradiol : 23pg/ml
               84pmol/L


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## heavyiron (Jan 29, 2012)

Your T to E2 ratio looks sweet brother.


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## CityHunter (Jan 29, 2012)

Yep, we will see when I'll begin my cycle.

I plan to do two others blood test, one during the fifth week which will the middle of my cycle and an other one at the end of my PCT.


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## flood (Nov 4, 2013)

Just got prescribed .55cc of depo-test every 10 days. Endo won't prescribe an AI. 

I think 0.55 cc's = 550mg - isn't it?
How often? - should I divide this up more frequently since it's a shorter chain than enanthate (8) and cyp (9) ?

Should I try to get Aromasin, or a SERM, if levels look bad? 
I have to use privatemdlabs because endo wants to test 3-6 months apart.


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## Riles (May 3, 2014)

*Ideas for next mini blast*

I am 47 years old, 5'9" 193lbs. 10-11% BF.  I have been training for several years, Mostly a strength and endurance athlete, I have been on TRT for 2.5+ years @ 240mg per week, I have been doing a mini blast and cruise the whole time alternating 12 weeks @ 240mg per week and 12 weeks @ 480mg per week, with added SDMZ, Epi, etc. during the mini blast portions, I have had good success but want to add a little more to the next one.

Week 1-12 Test E 560mg per week, split Mon and Thurs
 Week 1-12 Mast E 400mg per week, split Mon and Thurs 
 Week 1-12 Deca 120mg per week,  split Mon and Thurs
 Week 1-4 SDMZ 1.0   2 caps per day, split am and pm
 Week 9-12 Anavar  70mg per day, split am and pm
 Week 1-12 Adex .5mg EOD 
 Week 1-12 Liver support and 1.5 gallons of water per day
Labs at week 5 to adjust AI if needed.         My diet is pretty clean, mostly whole foods with some protein supplementation pre and post workout, 3100-3400 calories per day, +      5-7 grams Omega 3 fish oil, glucosamine, chondroitin, MSN, vitamin D, there is bound to be something I've left out, Any input that might help me make this a more productive cycle is appreciated, mostly looking to get a little leaner with a strength bias vs getting bigger, have decided against Tren because I am a little edgy already and I don't sleep well as it is, also the Deca is only involved for joint relief, that's why its so low, Thanks for your time, Riles


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## heavyiron (May 5, 2014)

Riles said:


> I am 47 years old, 5'9" 193lbs. 10-11% BF.  I have been training for several years, Mostly a strength and endurance athlete, I have been on TRT for 2.5+ years @ 240mg per week, I have been doing a mini blast and cruise the whole time alternating 12 weeks @ 240mg per week and 12 weeks @ 480mg per week, with added SDMZ, Epi, etc. during the mini blast portions, I have had good success but want to add a little more to the next one.
> 
> Week 1-12 Test E 560mg per week, split Mon and Thurs
> Week 1-12 Mast E 400mg per week, split Mon and Thurs
> ...


I like the plan but I would keep Nolvadex on hand in case gyno presents brother.


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## Riles (May 5, 2014)

Thank you Heavyiron, I will have Nolvadex on hand before I get started, Thank you Riles


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## heavyiron (May 8, 2014)

You are very welcome brother


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## DaBeast25 (May 10, 2014)

Heavy,

I ran into some gyno on my current cycle.  
week 1-8    350mg of Test Prop/week
week 1-6/7 455mg of NPP/week
week 1-5    30mg of dbol ed
.5mg of caber e3d
250iu of HCG e3d

While running 30mg of aromasin ed my number came in as follows... 
Estrogen at 97.8. Range 7.6-42.6 
Prolactin was 14.0 Range 4.0-15.2

Not sure if I can name to source but they're 20mg tabs and a source that I've used in the past.  Last time I used 30mg ed and my estro was just slightly higher than reference ranges and I was using a lot more test(but no dbol and no hcg).  I don't know if this was a bad/underdosed batch of if the dbol or hcg is causing the problem.

Anyway, as of about 8 days ago I started adex at 1-1.5mg ed and nolvadex at 40mg ed.  I haven't noticed any significant improvement yet, still have small lumps that are tender.  I did notice an increase in libido in the past week which I'm assuming is because my estrogen is dropping.  Last night I woke up sweaty as all hell(not sure if maybe I'm dropping too low now even though I still have gyno symptoms?)

I stopped dbol yesterday as I'm now in week 6.  My plan is to continue adex at 1mg ed and nolvadex at 40mg ed for the next week to see if symptoms lessen.  It's been suggested that I should try letro, but I remember you telling me years back that it's not actually much stronger than other AI's.  My plan once I can lessen these symptoms would be to slowly taper the adex while introducing that aromasin again probably at 40-60mg ed to start since I'm not convinced it's dosed properly.  If this works I'd run aromasin right into pct with climid in a few weeks.

My questions for you are...
-Do you think I'm on the right path to addressing this?
-If over the next week, with the high dosed adex & nolvadex ed and no more dbol, if symptoms still persist do you have any suggestions?

I know this is a long one, thanks for any help in advance!


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## DaBeast25 (May 10, 2014)

also, it the letro use for gyno more "bro-science" than legitimate?  Not 100% sure on whether I want to bother ordering it


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## heavyiron (May 10, 2014)

DaBeast25 said:


> Heavy,
> 
> I ran into some gyno on my current cycle.
> week 1-8    350mg of Test Prop/week
> ...


D-bol can aromatize quite a bit. I would drop the D-bol and just take Nolvadex at 10-20 mg twice daily.


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## DaBeast25 (May 11, 2014)

I'll just continue as I have then, thanks


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## sneedham (Nov 5, 2014)

Heavy or TwistT,

This is some what a TRT question but I also blast now and then.
Anyway Aveed was just FDA approved and my urologist asked if I would be willing to try.  I am on the fence.
Protocol would be 750mg initial shot at DR's office than after 4 weeks another 750mg shot, from there out 750mg every 10 weeks and it is undecanoate ester. I currently am prescribed 100mg test cyp/wk, but I typically run 200mg/wk. I feel that is my sweet spot...Let me know what you think.....

Sincerely,


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