# Traps



## pwloiacano (Oct 17, 2010)

Looking for some feedback on training traps.

I currently do them after I finish about 10-12 sets of shoulders.

3 sets of barbell shrugs (10-15 reps per set)
3 sets of barbell shrugs with bb behind me (10-15 reps per set)
sometimes add a couple of sets of db's.

Are there any other types of exercises that hit traps better??

Is it better to train them with back vs shoulders??


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## unclem (Oct 17, 2010)

e-z curl bar upright rows hit the traps very good but dont start off with alot of weight as its tough on your shoulders, just bring weight up to ur chin with the bar close to your body. if i didnt explain well you tube upright rows and just use a e-z curl bar instead it takes alot of the stress of the shoulders and wrists, elbows. thats all i used to do was bb shrugs now my traps are lagging until i added upright rows. if anyone else think of more i anmd i am sure the op is waiting for good , proven exercises.


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## HeavyBomber (Oct 17, 2010)

I train them directly with back. 

db or bb Bent over Rows
Cleans
db or bb Shrugs

...and of course deadlifts.


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## gtbmed (Oct 17, 2010)

Deadlift heavy
Hang cleans or hang power cleans
Farmer's walks
Bent over DB rows

Those are the things I do for them


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## Marat (Oct 17, 2010)

gtbmed said:


> Deadlift heavy
> Hang cleans or hang power cleans
> Farmer's walks
> Bent over DB rows
> ...



I very much agree with all of those movements. There aren't many guys who have big cleans and deadlifts but small traps.


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## unclem (Oct 17, 2010)

gtbmed said:


> Deadlift heavy
> Hang cleans or hang power cleans
> Farmer's walks
> Bent over DB rows
> ...


 
 i like the db rows, but, how do u do them? will it be on u tube and the hang cleans, also on u tube for a show on how to do?


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## gtbmed (Oct 17, 2010)

hang clean: Hang Clean
bent over rows: Dumbbell Bent-over Row

There are a lot of other good vids on hang cleans.  Bent over rows are easy to do.


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## unclem (Oct 17, 2010)

yeah ive done the bent db row. ok. damn the hang clean looks like it will train the whole back if done right. thanks bro. i love this shit new techneques.


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## gtbmed (Oct 17, 2010)

Yeah, hang cleans are awesome for the traps especially.  That's what I get from them the most.


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## ectomorph141 (Oct 18, 2010)

HeavyBomber said:


> I train them directly with back.
> 
> db or bb Bent over Rows
> Cleans
> ...


I also train mine with back / bicep day. I just superset dumbell or barbell shrugs or farmer walks with biceps or back.     If I dont superset them on back / bicep day then I superset them on other days.  Just depends on how I feel.  Traps can take one heck of a beating.


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## MDR (Oct 18, 2010)

Deadlifting=traps.  I like cleans and Bent d-bell rows, too.  Never got much from upright rows.  Kinda hard on my shoulders.


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## 07bobber (Oct 18, 2010)

T-bar rows


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## cshea2 (Oct 18, 2010)

Deads and cleans will def give the best results. I also like face pulls. I like to attach the rope high and lean back a little bit.


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## Flathead (Oct 18, 2010)

"Heavy" Deads & DB Rows would be my top two choices. Hell their aint a muscle in the body I wouldn't reccomend doing heavy deads for. LOL


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## Phineas (Oct 18, 2010)

Rack Pulls.

Basically a partial deadlift, where you rack the barbell on the safety bars at about knee height or slightly below (depending on your goals).

This partial ROM reduces the hip element of the deadlift in favour a bit more of back/trap effort. It's still trains the whole posterior chain, but in the context of bodybuilding these are useful for back and traps. Note that you'll pull a fair bit more than on your deadlifts, due to the shorter distance traveled, and higher angle of the back at the start of the movement (closer centre of gravity = more potential output).

I'll second cleans, rows, conventional deads, farmers walks, etc. Basically, any exercise where you're holding heavy weight will hit your traps hard.

Also, as a minor sidenote, your traps will get a little extra stimulation as a stabalizer in pushing movements like bench and military press.

If, after all these compound/heavy hold exercises, your traps still aren't responding as much as you'd like, then incorporate some isolation.


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## gtbmed (Oct 18, 2010)

cshea2 said:


> Deads and cleans will def give the best results. I also like face pulls. I like to attach the rope high and lean back a little bit.



Yeah, face pulls are great.  I seem to get a lot of delt stimulation from them.


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## unclem (Oct 18, 2010)

Phineas said:


> Rack Pulls.
> 
> Basically a partial deadlift, where you rack the barbell on the safety bars at about knee height or slightly below (depending on your goals).
> 
> ...


 
 so phineas, if i do rack deads ill pull with my traps the weight off the bar? as from knee height? i dont want to fuck myself up as to why iam asking and ill start with 135 lbs i got one gtg one from gtbmed, is that about right? let me no bro?


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## Phineas (Oct 18, 2010)

unclem said:


> so phineas, if i do rack deads ill pull with my traps the weight off the bar? as from knee height? i dont want to fuck myself up as to why iam asking and ill start with 135 lbs i got one gtg one from gtbmed, is that about right? let me no bro?



No, you perform the movement as the top portion of the deadlift. So, you'll be bent at the hips (knee joint compound), and use your hamstrings and glutes (like in a deadlift or clean) to initiate the pull. There's no shrugging in the lift at all. The traps just get hit hard the same way as in a regular deadlift, but even more because you'll be using more weight than on a deadlift.

It's still technically a hip-dominant movement, and really is a deadlift variation. However, by eliminating the bottom phase of the deadlift concentric -- at which point the hams/glutes are fully contracted and work the hardest -- you shift the emphasis of the lift from the hips more to the back.


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## Merkaba (Oct 18, 2010)

heavy  deads and heavier rack pulls.  Keep the shoulders up and don't let the weight just pull your shoulders down.


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## pwloiacano (Oct 18, 2010)

Thanks to all for your feedback.  My question on this is that I see a lot of receommendations for farmer walks, hang cleans, heavy deadlifts, etc.  Arent those more for exercise programs that emphasize power lifting??

Also to Phineas: what isolation exercises do you do for traps??


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## unclem (Oct 18, 2010)

Phineas said:


> No, you perform the movement as the top portion of the deadlift. So, you'll be bent at the hips (knee joint compound), and use your hamstrings and glutes (like in a deadlift or clean) to initiate the pull. There's no shrugging in the lift at all. The traps just get hit hard the same way as in a regular deadlift, but even more because you'll be using more weight than on a deadlift.
> 
> It's still technically a hip-dominant movement, and really is a deadlift variation. However, by eliminating the bottom phase of the deadlift concentric -- at which point the hams/glutes are fully contracted and work the hardest -- you shift the emphasis of the lift from the hips more to the back.


 
 thnx phineas!


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## Phineas (Oct 18, 2010)

pwloiacano said:


> Thanks to all for your feedback.  My question on this is that I see a lot of receommendations for farmer walks, hang cleans, heavy deadlifts, etc.  Arent those more for exercise programs that emphasize power lifting??
> 
> Also to Phineas: what isolation exercises do you do for traps??



Yes, they're common powerlifting exercises, but bodybuilding, too. The thing is all of them work the traps harder than any isolation will. Also, isolations like shrugs work only the upper trap fibres, neglecting the mid and lower fibres, which make up the majority of the whole muscle group. The compounds listed above will train the entire muscle group, giving your traps developement not only viewed from the front (upper traps) but side and back (the entire muscle group).


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## unclem (Oct 18, 2010)

i used to laugh at you guys because i thought the exercises where fucking not good for bbing but hey again i learned from of u powerlifters and hey thnx brothers for going outta of your way to help me and the op. i got 2 exercises for my traps that iam going to work on plus another one is my fucking fat ass cant do not 1 pullup now at 290 lbs guys should i still do negatives? but i still think u have to in bbing u have to train the arms real good. but u guys got alot of tricks ill rely on more and more when i hit a sticker point. but is doing neg for pullups at 290 going to help anything much as i think ill be 305 by the middle of november bro. i can really use a ton on bent rows like 315 for reps, and the stack and 45lb plates to the pulldown, so, obovously iam not strong in one of the back muscles that deal with the pullups.  anyone no?


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## Phineas (Oct 18, 2010)

unclem said:


> i used to laugh at you guys because i thought the exercises where fucking not good for bbing but hey again i learned from of u powerlifters and hey thnx brothers for going outta of your way to help me and the op. i got 2 exercises for my traps that iam going to work on plus another one is my fucking fat ass cant do not 1 pullup now at 290 lbs guys should i still do negatives? but i still think u have to in bbing u have to train the arms real good. but u guys got alot of tricks ill rely on more and more when i hit a sticker point. but is doing neg for pullups at 290 going to help anything much as i think ill be 305 by the middle of november bro. i can really use a ton on bent rows like 315 for reps, and the stack and 45lb plates to the pulldown, so, obovously iam not strong in one of the back muscles that deal with the pullups.  anyone no?



I'm not exactly a powerlifting. Nor am I really a bodybuilder. I'm somewhere in the middle. I'm after both, and both can achieved together.

I use isolation sometimes, but only when I want to further develop a muscle group. Compounds really do work better for building muscle. It's no lie. Arm curls and whatnot are useful if those muscles are developing behind all others. I've been training purely compound for a year and my body has developed exactly like a bodybuilder. I just want more mass still. I squat and deadlift a lot, but I also do rows and pullups, etc. So, while my legs and back are huge, my arms are proportionately large too, as are my chest and delts.


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## gtbmed (Oct 18, 2010)

A lot of these exercises _are_ used by powerlifters.

And powerlifters are known to have huge backs...


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## unclem (Oct 18, 2010)

Phineas said:


> I'm not exactly a powerlifting. Nor am I really a bodybuilder. I'm somewhere in the middle. I'm after both, and both can achieved together.
> 
> I use isolation sometimes, but only when I want to further develop a muscle group. Compounds really do work better for building muscle. It's no lie. Arm curls and whatnot are useful if those muscles are developing behind all others. I've been training purely compound for a year and my body has developed exactly like a bodybuilder. I just want more mass still. I squat and deadlift a lot, but I also do rows and pullups, etc. So, while my legs and back are huge, my arms are proportionately large too, as are my chest and delts.


 
 wat is the size of your arm? ill take your word ok, i dont need pictures as i no people dont like doing that so wat is your arm size cold?


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## Phineas (Oct 19, 2010)

unclem said:


> wat is the size of your arm? ill take your word ok, i dont need pictures as i no people dont like doing that so wat is your arm size cold?



I got 15 inches. That's 2 years training, no drugs, no isolation for year 2, lots of cardio, and very clean bulking. I think that's pretty good for no arm curling or tricep extensions.


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## MDR (Oct 19, 2010)

Phineas said:


> Yes, they're common powerlifting exercises, but bodybuilding, too. The thing is all of them work the traps harder than any isolation will. Also, isolations like shrugs work only the upper trap fibres, neglecting the mid and lower fibres, which make up the majority of the whole muscle group. The compounds listed above will train the entire muscle group, giving your traps developement not only viewed from the front (upper traps) but side and back (the entire muscle group).



Great answer.  Basic foundational compound exercises build your body in a balanced, functional manner.  Too many new lifters are concerned with individual muscles, when the focus should be to build a strong body overall.  Most bodybuilders begin by working on overall strength and power, and worry about refinement when they have some muscle to refine.  Best way to gain size and power is through basic movements done with proper form and heavy weight.


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## Phineas (Oct 19, 2010)

MDR said:


> Great answer.  Basic foundational compound exercises build your body in a balanced, functional manner.  Too many new lifters are concerned with individual muscles, when the focus should be to build a strong body overall.  Most bodybuilders begin by working on overall strength and power, and worry about refinement when they have some muscle to refine.  Best way to gain size and power is through basic movements done with proper form and heavy weight.



Exactly.

There's nothing wrong with isolation. It's just that everyone assumes you have to do curls and whatnot to develop the smaller muscles, when that's not at all true. You'll develop awesome mass with compounds, so long as you eat sufficient calories/macros. Use isolation down the road to "sculpt", in the sense that you're singling out certain muscle groups to make them a little bigger because you feel they're lagging. You won't change their shape; you won't change the "definition" (as we all know that comes with low BF); and you won't produce more striations. All isolation really does it add mass to one particular muscle group, so it has the exact same effect as compounds in terms of adding muscle -- only on a significantly smaller scale.

So many people think heavy compounds build flat mass, and isolatios "chizzle" muscles to make them look differently. No -- both build muscle, and the muscles will look the way they look based on genetics and how much fat you have. Compounds just make the process faster and more productive, and also do you the favour of developing the muscles -- not to mention functionality -- in natural proportions. The only downside is compound lifting takes a hell of a lot more effort and mass in the testicles region. It's a lot easier to rape your biceps and triceps with cable attachments for an hour than it does to squat heavy in a rack for 15 minutes.

If you happen to want extra big biceps, or extra big pecs, or extra big quads, then by all means throw in some sets at the end of your workouts for curls, flies, and leg extensions. No problem with that. Just don't think you need those all the time right off the bat. 

Think about it: when you bent-over row 200 lbs are your lats doing all that work? No...if that were the case you'd be straight-arm pulldowning 200 lbs. All those smaller muscles help, and that's a hell of a lot more strain on them than 30 lb curls.

And, don't even get me started on growth hormone secretion.


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## pwloiacano (Oct 19, 2010)

A question on hang cleans because I have never done them before.  I plan to try them in my back workout this week.  I plan to get started at a low weight in order to get the proper form down.  How many sets would you receommend and how many repetitions per set would be a normal guideline?


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## Phineas (Oct 19, 2010)

pwloiacano said:


> A question on hang cleans because I have never done them before.  I plan to try them in my back workout this week.  I plan to get started at a low weight in order to get the proper form down.  How many sets would you receommend and how many repetitions per set would be a normal guideline?



Low reps, high intensity.

Something like 6-12 x 1-3. You can do the classic 5 x 5, but it's hard to maintain form and speed as reps progress -- despite how much weight is on the bar.


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## gtbmed (Oct 19, 2010)

8x3 is a pretty good rep range for them.  It really depends on the weight you use.


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## stfuandliftbtch (Oct 19, 2010)

honestly, traps are my largest bodypart... i have people comment on them almost every day or so..

I do them after my back workout...

barbell shrugs
135X50-warm up
225X30-warm up
315X25
405X15
495X10

Make sure you go ALL the way up and hold it for a good second..also at the bottom you can let it hang for second to get a good stretch..dont jsut drop it on the way down, slow down, quick up.. On the negative imagine you that the inside of your traps are a giant spring that is compressing, and for the lift imagine the spring is Exploding up..(that is if you are into visualization while lifting)

After the barbell shrugs I might go and do a few sets of dumbell shrugs, but don't always find it necessary because of my already thick traps..

also if im looking to get some volume in, ill pyramid with the dumbells..

All for 10 reps... 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 100's and so on if i am at a gym that has higher dumbells and then back down..Highest ive seen was 170's.

And if i really want to fuck my shit up...

Ill go pyramid up and down, then up and down again, leading to about a 300rep set! You will not believe the pump after even 1 pyramid! 

Try this and let me know how your traps felt after!


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## pwloiacano (Oct 21, 2010)

I tried the hang cleans today with my back workout.  I have just started them, so it was a little awkward at first.  However, once I finished them, I could really feel it in my traps and upper back.  Exactly where I wanted to feel it!!!
Thanks to all who recommended this exercise.


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## Gissurjon (Oct 21, 2010)

gtbmed said:


> Yeah, hang cleans are awesome for the traps especially. That's what I get from them the most.


 
where are they?


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## gtbmed (Oct 21, 2010)

Gissurjon said:


> where are they?



Not sure I understand the question.


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## Gissurjon (Oct 21, 2010)

gtbmed said:


> Not sure I understand the question.


 
your traps. just bein an asshole


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## MDR (Oct 21, 2010)

Gissurjon said:


> where are they?



Gtbmed put a good video on the previous page showing people how the exercise is performed.  Just look for the post with hang cleans highlighted in blue.  My bad. Thought you were asking an actual question.


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## gtbmed (Oct 21, 2010)

Gissurjon said:


> your traps. just bein an asshole



Ha, I'm not a big dude at all.  I'm 175 lbs. in my pic and not all that cut either.  But I never bulk so I couldn't care less.  I'm just saying my traps get a ton of fatigue after doing hang cleans.


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## klc9100 (Oct 21, 2010)

i had never heard of "face pulls" before reading this post yesterday. today is my shoulder day, so i decided to try them. i started with light weight, as recommended. i set the cable machine to 30lbs, to get the feel of it. on my very 1st rep, i hit myself in the mouth with the EZ bar attachment  :-/  LOL. the taste of blood got me pumped-up though. i did another set with 50lbs, then another set with 70lbs and then a burn-out set with 90lbs. (which at that point, i could only do 2 reps). i really like the exercise. now, about 15 hrs. later, i can really feel it in my traps. i will be adjusting my weight/set/rep ratios and including it in my shoulder workouts from now on. thanks. . .


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## fredlabrute (Oct 23, 2010)

I always had good traps but i'm not getting a good burn with bbll shruggs...I prefer a lot dbll shruggs, i let the dbll roll on each side when going down and i contract a second or two on top of the movement. The two others exercices from my trap routine are behind-the-neck bbll press and close-grip bbll rows,this bodypart is train on same day as shoulders.


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## min0 lee (Oct 23, 2010)

Gissurjon said:


> your traps. just bein an asshole



Good job.


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## unclem (Oct 24, 2010)

Phineas said:


> I got 15 inches. That's 2 years training, no drugs, no isolation for year 2, lots of cardio, and very clean bulking. I think that's pretty good for no arm curling or tricep extensions.


 
 good job phineas, 15" is good size. with no drugs. and thnmx for honesty.


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## Phineas (Oct 24, 2010)

unclem said:


> good job phineas, 15" is good size. with no drugs. and thnmx for honesty.



Although I should admit that I just started using some minor isolation work because I'm using Built's Baby Got Back program. It's only a few sets a week of bicep and tricep work, but because my body is not at all used to that anymore I've had immediate growth lately, or at least really good pumps, lol.

This is a case where isolation has actually been useful. I used my base of compounds for ages, and when I decided to use a little isolation work to augment certain muscles I've seen good results. 

Though I always perform isolation at the end of a workout. Compounds get priority.


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## unclem (Oct 25, 2010)

oh, yeah phineas, if your not use to doing the arms they will grow like wild, and its the pumps, well i dont have to tell u , u no.


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## Merkaba (Oct 25, 2010)

unclem said:


> i used to laugh at you guys because i thought the exercises where fucking not good for bbing but hey again i learned from of u powerlifters and hey thnx brothers for going outta of your way to help me and the op. i got 2 exercises for my traps that iam going to work on plus another one is my fucking fat ass cant do not 1 pullup now at 290 lbs guys should i still do negatives? but i still think u have to in bbing u have to train the arms real good. but u guys got alot of tricks ill rely on more and more when i hit a sticker point. but is doing neg for pullups at 290 going to help anything much as i think ill be 305 by the middle of november bro. i can really use a ton on bent rows like 315 for reps, and the stack and 45lb plates to the pulldown, so, obovously iam not strong in one of the back muscles that deal with the pullups.  anyone no?



Well you still kinda don't get it. The tricks aren't tricks. They seem like tricks because everyone else is busy doing bullshit or less than optimal work.  A deadlift is picking up heavy shit, with form.  It's a basic movemnt pattern of life.


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## tyciol (Dec 7, 2010)

Do you guys think that overhead pressing would work the traps, since the upper and lower traps work with the serratus anterior to upwardly rotate the scapuale?


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## gtbmed (Dec 7, 2010)

tyciol said:


> Do you guys think that overhead pressing would work the traps, since the upper and lower traps work with the serratus anterior to upwardly rotate the scapuale?



Yes

Pretty much anytime you support a barbell overhead your traps are going to have to be working.  You can't hold a weight directly overhead without scapular elevation.


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## tyciol (Dec 7, 2010)

Even though all 3 of those muscles work, I wonder how the load is split, it always seems like the upper trap might work harder. I get how the lower trap helps with the rotation but it stills seems like the line of force is upper trap dominant...

Lower traps are a pain to target, it's hard to visualize where they are in your back and feel them since you're not sure if it's other weird back muscles like the teres major or whatever.


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## pwloiacano (Dec 7, 2010)

I have just switched my back workout to include traps at the end.  I must tell you that I can hit them much harder and they are always sore for about 24-48 hours after my workout.  I would work them hard when I did shoulders, but never got sore like I do after doing the rowing exercises on back day which I now believe pre-fatigue my traps and allow for the shrugs that I do at the end of the workout have a much better effect.  I am 44 and never thought I would see them grow.  But, believe it or not they are!!!


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## Tamaon (Dec 9, 2010)

pwloiacano said:


> Looking for some feedback on training traps.
> 
> I currently do them after I finish about 10-12 sets of shoulders.
> 
> ...



Trapbar shrugs
dip shrugs
hanging (from pullup bar) shrugs


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## Merkaba (Dec 10, 2010)

gtbmed said:


> Yeah, face pulls are great.  I seem to get a lot of delt stimulation from them.



No way am I doing face pulls!  You guys never fucked up a piece of gym equipment before or snapped some shit?


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## charlieDxtreme (Dec 10, 2010)

awesome read.


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