# favorite carb cycling plan?



## thomassj (Aug 22, 2011)

keto didn't work that great for me...i felt like complete sh!!!t
Have been looking into carb cycling and theres so many different choices
carb cycling codex
twin peaks(but i IF so the whole different carb meals at different days wouldnt work)
3 days low 1 day high
no/low/high
3 days low 1 day medium 1 day high
2 very low 2 low 2 high 
6 low 1 day re-feed
the list goes on what has worked best for you all?


----------



## ThreeGigs (Aug 22, 2011)

I make a rough guess as to how many calories I burned during a workout, divide by 4, and that's how many grams of carbs I get to eat that day, after the workout. I don't count carbs from veggies (except potatoes) or the milk I use in my coffee and to mix my whey.

That's it. No plan, really. I only eat enough carbs to replace the mucle glycogen I used in my workout. I guess you could say I keep myself on the edge of keto, since most of the carbs won't be burned right away, but they'll still be pulled out of circulation and so won't be used for maintenance. It's been working for me since the spring. I felt lifeless on a really low carb diet, but a combination of intermittent fasting (6 hour eating window) and limiting carbs only to what the muscles will uptake has let me continue dropping fat while still gaining some muscle.

I think depending on your workout you'd need to adjust the divider (5 or 3 instead of 4) and/or perhaps count all carb calories. I had to tweak mine a bit and adjust some eating habits slightly, but it's been working well for me.


----------



## Built (Aug 22, 2011)

ThreeGigs, your approach is elegant in its simplicity. 

To the OP - for what purpose will you carb-cycle? This might help us help you tailor your approach. If it's for fat loss, just run a deficit. If it's to help manage hunger while cutting, it may not be helpful for you since you did not do well on keto. For some of us, carbs make us hungry. I'm one of 'em, so I limit my carb intake to training days, and eat more on those days. On the off-days, I go low carb because it's easier for me to undereat that way.


----------



## thomassj (Aug 23, 2011)

Built said:


> ThreeGigs, your approach is elegant in its simplicity.
> 
> To the OP - for what purpose will you carb-cycle? This might help us help you tailor your approach. If it's for fat loss, just run a deficit. If it's to help manage hunger while cutting, it may not be helpful for you since you did not do well on keto. For some of us, carbs make us hungry. I'm one of 'em, so I limit my carb intake to training days, and eat more on those days. On the off-days, I go low carb because it's easier for me to undereat that way.



I see what your saying, I read the carb cycling codex over at T-Nation and it made sense.  Eat for what you did that day, for instance on back or legs it would be high carbs chest and shoulders medium carbs and arms and 2 off days it would be lower carbs.  I do quite well with around 90-100 carbs with higher fats around 80-100 and high protein 240 or more.  I am actually thinking of doing low carb (sub 100) and have a re-feed day once a week with around 500-700 carbohydrates.


----------



## squigader (Aug 23, 2011)

thomassj said:


> I see what your saying, I read the carb cycling codex over at T-Nation and it made sense.  Eat for what you did that day, for instance on back or legs it would be high carbs chest and shoulders medium carbs and arms and 2 off days it would be lower carbs.  I do quite well with around 90-100 carbs with higher fats around 80-100 and high protein 240 or more.  I am actually thinking of doing low carb (sub 100) and have a re-feed day once a week with around 500-700 carbohydrates.



High carb on workout days, very low carbs on non-workout days. You eat based on your activity level. I like ThreeGigs' approach.

Also, for keto, it takes about 2-2.5 weeks at least to stop feeling terrible.


----------



## thomassj (Aug 23, 2011)

i kinda like that approach too, do you go higher fats on off days?


----------



## ThreeGigs (Aug 23, 2011)

thomassj said:


> i kinda like that approach too, do you go higher fats on off days?



Actually, no. I figure my protein and fats are my basal metabolic maintenance calories, and the carbs are for workouts. So every day it's 170-ish grams of protein, and 150-ish grams of fats. Plus, I'm guessing that I probably get around 80 grams of carbs a day from veggies and milk. And since my baseline maintenance doesn't change, there's no need to change my basic daily macros. No workout, no need for extra calories.

What's really cool is that the carbs have become something like a reward for effort. I bust ass, I get bread and cereal and french fries and stuff. Less work, less reward, so I really tend to work hard and probably a bit too long.

Built: Yes, simple, but I found trying to guesstimate just how many calories you burn in a workout is HARD. Lately I just work out until I 'smell' a faint whiff of something like acetone in my nose (and it's odd because it doesn't *come from* anywhere, it's as if my sinuses smell) and chalk up 250 grams of carbs earned. I've maintained a steady 85 kilos since April, all the while slowly losing fat and gaining muscle.


----------



## Built (Aug 23, 2011)

squigader said:


> Also, for keto, it takes about 2-2.5 weeks at least to stop feeling terrible.


Not for me it doesn't. I feel great from the first low-carb meal. 

When I first did keto - it was the Atkins diet back in 2001 - I had the notorious "Atkins flu" for three days, and that was it. After that and ever since, I feel great on low carbs - and I can hit ketosis in a day if I want - I just do a lot of physical work (last time, it was a hike up the Stawamus Chief, second peak) and don't eat any carbohydrate before or after. 



thomassj said:


> i kinda like that approach too, do you go higher fats on off days?





ThreeGigs said:


> Actually, no. I figure my protein and fats are my basal metabolic maintenance calories, and the carbs are for workouts. So every day it's 170-ish grams of protein, and 150-ish grams of fats. Plus, I'm guessing that I probably get around 80 grams of carbs a day from veggies and milk. And since my baseline maintenance doesn't change, there's no need to change my basic daily macros. No workout, no need for extra calories.
> 
> What's really cool is that the carbs have become something like a reward for effort. I bust ass, I get bread and cereal and french fries and stuff. Less work, less reward, so I really tend to work hard and probably a bit too long.
> 
> Built: Yes, simple, but I found trying to guesstimate just how many calories you burn in a workout is HARD. Lately I just work out until I 'smell' a faint whiff of something like acetone in my nose (and it's odd because it doesn't *come from* anywhere, it's as if my sinuses smell) and chalk up 250 grams of carbs earned. I've maintained a steady 85 kilos since April, all the while slowly losing fat and gaining muscle.



thomass, I do higher fats and slightly higher protein on the off-days (for appetite control) and lower fats, slightly lower protein and of course higher carbs on the high-days. 

ThreeGigs approach is, of course, perfectly sound. I just do what I do for comfort. Like him, I find myself REALLY looking forward to workout days! 

For folks who are reasonably lean, it's a very easy way to slowly recompose without having to have three wardrobes.


----------



## juggernaut (Aug 23, 2011)

Interesting. I never crashed on keto. 
Carb cycling the way Built showed me has enabled me to both gain when I bulked and cut when I did a major cut this year from January to July. I kept fats very high and carbs dramatically low on off days. Worked like a charm.


----------



## thomassj (Aug 23, 2011)

theres so many different options for cutting, my goal is to go sub 10% - i have never been there my lowest was 10% but i fattened myself up to around 15% =[ well fat for me anyway.  
right now im on a 5 day split 
arms
legs
chest
back
shoulders


----------



## juggernaut (Aug 23, 2011)

thomassj said:


> theres so many different options for cutting, my goal is to go sub 10% - i have never been there my lowest was 10% but i fattened myself up to around 15% =[ well fat for me anyway.
> right now im on a 5 day split
> arms
> legs
> ...


Agreed, there are different ways. Built's approach has always worked for me. 

I'd change the routine first. I'm not crazy about those kinds of workouts. Too much time lapses and the rationale behind that type of routine is very bro-school. Consider using Baby Got Back (by Built) or one of Gaz's hypertrophy routines which can be found on his website. By far, they're two brains that write intelligently.


----------



## thomassj (Aug 23, 2011)

Where can I find those workouts? Thanks for the tips dude


----------



## juggernaut (Aug 24, 2011)

Google


----------



## thomassj (Aug 24, 2011)

ok^^ thankyou


----------



## juggernaut (Aug 24, 2011)

By MariAnne (Built)
baby Got back

by Gazhole
The GetBodybuilding System friggin rocks!!

And this one is my new spotlighted favorite which I'm doing in my journal. 

Also, you can't go wrong with this old school bulker favorite. It justs WORKS!!!


----------

