# Ectomorph MASS training?? is it possible



## tenxyearsxgone (Sep 15, 2003)

i'm 5'10 175 lbs and 21.  I gained 15 lbs in 3 months after breaking my collar bone, yet oddly enough its been muscle.  I'm trying a routine similar to max-ot training by AST.  I am trying to get strength but primarily put on bulk of mass and get over 200lbs of muscle.  I have a fast metabolism and have a difficult time gaining weight.  I've been taking two protein shakes of about 70 grams total of protein a day aside from eating two big meals and snacking on yogurt and cottage cheese.  I also just started taking twin lab caspules of l-glutamine...3 pills a day equating to 3gm of glutamine daily along with a multivitamin....now to my routine.

I just started it last week, this is my second week and i just completed my second chest workout.

*Monday* 
Bench Press 6 reps of 225
                    6 reps of 235
                    3 reps of 245

Incline Press 6 reps of 205
                     5 reps of 205
                     5 reps of 205

Decline DB 10 reps of 70
                 10 reps of 70
                  8 reps of 70

Dips w/ 60lbs 10 reps then 8 reps then 6 reps

*Tuesday* 

Dead Lift   225 x 10 reps
                 295 x 8 reps
                 315 x 6 reps

1 arm DB   70 x 10 reps
                 85 x 8 reps
                100 x 6 reps

seated row 150 x 8 reps ( 3 sets )

Lat Pulldown Machine 3 sets of 6 reps

Wednesday

Squats 3x6
Leg Press 3x6
Standing Calf 3x10


Thursday

Clean and Press 3x6
Military DB Press 3x6
Side Laterals 3x6
DB Shrugs 3x6
Upright Rows 3x8

Friday

Straight Bar curl 3x8
Alt. DB Curls 3x6
Incline Curl 3x6

Close Grip Bench 3x6
Tricep Push Down 3x8
Skull Crushes 3x6

Straight Bar wrist curls 3x10

Off Sat./Sun

I would like some of the experienced lifters and trainers to critique this program and help optimize it for me, for mass and some strength, I'd like to add serious lbs of muscle, possibly 20lb in a year of thick massive muscle.


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## Arnold (Sep 15, 2003)

the routine seems fine, you should be more concerned with your diet, also 3 grams of glutamine per day is not going to do much, need to increase that to at least 15 grams.

if you're a true "ectomorph" not sure if you will have much success with that type of routine, I guess try it for  a month or so and see. ectomorphs typically seem to do better with higher reps and more frequent work-outs.


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## reflex (Sep 16, 2003)

> ectomorphs typically seem to do better with higher reps and more frequent work-outs



I was made to believe the opposite was true.

Low reps, high weight. Keep it short and intense. Then eat like a mad man.


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## naturalguy (Sep 16, 2003)

I would stick with the MaxOT routine, it is a fantastic program.

Your diet concerns me more, you need to add at least one more real meal in there, make sure you get enough calories.


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## tenxyearsxgone (Sep 16, 2003)

Thanks for the advice guys.  What glutamine do you reccomend, right now for protein I'm taking ProLab Advanced Whey, Vitamin Shoppe multi vitamin and Twin lab capsule Glutamine.

As far as saying if Im and ectomorph, i assume that because i was able to add 15lbs within three months im mainly an ectomorph with mesomorph potential.

As far as frequent workouts and higher reps I do not understand how that would work.  From what i've read those of us with faster metabolisms need a lot more nutrition and rest time equating to working each muscle once every 7 days and as far as reps i was actually thinking of adding reps...but not hight...more of 8-10 for legs and 6-8 for upper body...my goal being Hypertrophy with strength benefits...any comments? 

As far as rest in between sets I keep it about 2 minutes because i've that any less will not allow for maximum overload of muscle and equate into burning calories at a more rapid pace which is counterproductive to gaining mass.

As far as the 5-day split i've detailed about my program, some of those sets you can see i only completed 3 reps which i think is too low to stimulate hypertrophy and is more for power, which is not what i want right now.  I would like to slap on about 25 more pounds of muscle, but not water weight or mush...solid mass.

So if you can possibly reccommend a 3, 4, or 5 day split that'd be great.  I do not want to do full body workouts, doing consecutive muscle groups in a day is fine if its the right combo i think.  So if you guys have good splits for us trying to become mass monsters, especially the slender lean guys let me know.  The awkward thing though is that me being 5'10" and 175lbs seems fairly thin, yet everyond thinkgs im about 190 or so and my training partners are both over 200 and I have about an inch or more on them on my biceps.  I need to get the weight to start filling out.


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## ponyboy (Sep 16, 2003)

As a fellow ectomorph, I have found that higher reps does seem to have more of an effect.  If I keep my rep range upwards of 10-12 I feel much more of an effect and my strength goes up accordingly.  

I also gave gopro's workouts a trial run and they worked great...likely because you are constantly training for different results...power, strength and endurance.  As ectomorphs, we also need constant change because our bodies adapt faster than the other body types, so you need to mix things up quite often.


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## Arnold (Sep 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by ponyboy *_
> As a fellow ectomorph, I have found that higher reps does seem to have more of an effect.  If I keep my rep range upwards of 10-12 I feel much more of an effect and my strength goes up accordingly.



that sounds about right...you and Arnold Schwarzenegger have something in common.   He always followed a 6 day routine hitting each bodypart two times per week, training twice per day, and used a lot of volume.


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## tenxyearsxgone (Sep 16, 2003)

Yes, however, if you read about Arnold he did a lot of powerlifting routines to get the bulk, after 4 years of training, at 19 he was 240lbs.  Those heavy weights made him thick as an "oak" tree, and the adaption to such overloading gave him the ability to recuperate quickly when upping the reps and lowering the weight, this accompanied with genetics, lots of calories, protein and steroids equates to insane recuperation time and growing rates.  I dont think i want to do steroids or over train.  I'd be overtraining if I trained like he did as a bodybuilder.  Dont forget you can't bodybuild unless you have the inital mass to sculpt.  Why sculpt a half assed body???  As far as me doing 10 reps and 12, i've done that and seen minimal success, i've been doing 6-8 and now 4-6 and seem to be having bigger gains in mass...maybe i'll try gopro's


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## naturalguy (Sep 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> that sounds about right...you and Arnold Schwarzenegger have something in common.   He always followed a 6 day routine hitting each bodypart two times per week, training twice per day, and used a lot of volume.




Arnold also had the assistance of anabolic drugs and exceptional genetics. More volume is not the answer for this guy.

Maximum overload is the most effecient way to stimulate growth, I would suggest training one bodypart per day, once per week, that would have you train 5 days, for example:

Sunday- legs
Monday - chest
Tuesday - arms
Wed- rest
Thurs. - back
Friday - rest
Sat. - shoulders

you can change the days. I would stick with the heavier weight lower reps in the 4-8 range ocassionally training in slightly higher reps for a week or two.


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## ponyboy (Sep 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> Arnold also had the assistance of anabolic drugs and exceptional genetics. More volume is not the answer for this guy.



Actually, at the beginning of his career Arnold had the benefit of working out more often...considering he was in the Austrian Army.  

I believe that these hard, heavy and often workouts with bodyweight exercises for the most part helped him to get a good solid base from which he eventually developed his physique.  If you look at pics of him when he is 17-19 just after entering the army he already has a good solid base.  This is before he was on any sort of enhancement drug.  

Try different rep ranges and techniques until you find one your body responds to.  Then when your progress slows, switch again and keep the gains coming...that's the best way to go about it IMO.  Nobody's workout program is going to work for everyone.


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## Flex (Sep 16, 2003)

Actually Ponyboy, Arnold was introduced to dbols at the tender age of 13. His trainers used to be awestruck when they told him to take a few and instead he'd swallow 8 or 9 at a time with some milk before working out.  Towards his late teen years, primobolan was his primary stacker with dbols. (That was published in his unauthorized biography quoting his first trainer, Kurt Marnul.)


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## Arnold (Sep 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> Arnold also had the assistance of anabolic drugs and exceptional genetics. More volume is not the answer for this guy.
> 
> Maximum overload is the most effecient way to stimulate growth, I would suggest training one bodypart per day, once per week, that would have you train 5 days, for example:
> ...



It does not matter that Arnold used drugs, if he didn't he would still have the same physique, just smaller (drugs do not make a champion).  The reason I mentioned Arnold is because he IS an ectomorph bodytype. 

A low volume, heavy weight routine (MAX-OT style) is not the answer for everyone, we all have a different genetic make-up, different fiber ratios, etc.. And you cannot predict what routine will work best for this guy, especially on the limited info you have.


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## tenxyearsxgone (Sep 16, 2003)

What other info would you guys like to know to make a better judgement on what routine would work best for me for mass? For instance, today i did a back workout and did dead lifts and felt it the most so far.  I did 3 sets, the first two with 315 then the third at 325.  the reps were 6-6-4.


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## Arnold (Sep 16, 2003)

It may take some trial and error, stick with this routine for a month, then switch to a higher volume routine, you'll figure out soon enough which one works best for your body.


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## Vale Tudo (Sep 16, 2003)

I am going with Prince on this one.  However man try not to get too discouraged that you are an Ecto, there are a lot of people that would feel truly blessed to keep their body fat as low as yours probably is naturally.  And, use what you were given bro, work your balls off, try different things to see what will work best for you.  if you want it bad enough (and do the right things) you will pack on plenty of muscle, just stay at it bro. You are looking in the right place for your answers.


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## tenxyearsxgone (Sep 16, 2003)

thanks again fellas.  I just took my measurements, the first time since July.  My arms went from 15 to 16 1/4", my chest from 38 to 39 inches, my calves from 14 to 15 inches and my waist stayed at 32 inches.  I'm not exactly sure what the increase has occured as my body weight only went up about 2 lbs since then.  

Do you guys like a 3, 4, or 5 day split the best for building mass for us ecto's.  I've read that ecto's need the most time to recuperate, so i'm assuming its between a 3 and 4 day split, just not sure which would yield better results.

As far as reps, I'm afraid that if i go for 8-10 that i'll lose the strength and just gain muscle endurance.  And should i do higher reps for my legs then my upper body?  Suppose i do 6 to 8 reps for my upper body and 8 to 12 for my lower, do you think that would yield some impressive gains in hypertrophy and strength?


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## tenxyearsxgone (Sep 17, 2003)

Here is a new Split I devised Let me know what you think... My goal is mainly Hypertrophy with a side effect of strenght...let me know any corrections or advice opinions.

MONDAY -- Legs

Squats 3x10
Leg Press 2x10-12
Stiff Deads 1x10
Seated Calf Raises 2x10
Leg Press Machine Calf Raises 2x10

TUESDAY -- Chest/Bi's

Bench Press 12-10-8-8
Incline Bench 2x10
Incline Flyes 2x10
Cable Crossover 1x10

Straight Bar Curl 2x10
Alt. DB Curls 2x10
Close Grip Preachers 2x10

WEDNESDAY-- OFF

THURSDAY -- Back/Tri's

DeadLift 3x8-10
Bent Over Rows 3x8-10
Lat PullDown 2x8-10
Rear Delts 2x8-10
Seated Row 2x9-10

Close Grip Bench 3x8-10
Skull Crushes 2x 8-12

FRIDAY -- Shoulders

Clean and Press 3x8-10
Military Presses 3x10
Side Lateral Raises 3x10
Upright Rows 3x10
Shrugs 3x10

SATURDAY & SUNDAY -- Off


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## tenxyearsxgone (Sep 17, 2003)

Ok im so indecisive. I just reread the arnold book at changed my workout for the next 6 weeks

I'm doing 3x10 for all the leg exercises on Monday

I'm doing 4x6-8 on my first chest workout which will be flat bench alt. every week with incline bench
then each consecutive workout will be 3x6-8
for the rest of the workouts except Deadlifts

Deadlifts will be 3x8-10

Arnold confirmed that doing 75% of your 1 rep max giving you 8-12 reps for upper body and 12-15 for lower body will yield hypertrophy but concurring with other studies he says that it will be lost when certain levels go down and that lower reps produce thicker hypertrophy and that ectomorphs should do 12-16 sets per body part and 6-8 reps.........

comments/questions?


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## Tha Don (Feb 11, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> if you're a true "ectomorph" not sure if you will have much success with that type of routine, I guess try it for  a month or so and see. ectomorphs typically seem to do better with higher reps and more frequent work-outs.



very true

moderate - heavy (rotating), high volume, frequent workouts

thats the only way i seem to make any sort of progress, i've tried super heavy once a week (like everyone has told me I must do to put on mass... and it dose not work, i keep telling people and they are just like.... 'oh right')

i might go back to just 3 heavy sessions (hitting each BP once) again, but I would have to add a light weights session in too, once a week is not enough for me

I hate HIT'ers

peace


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## zenith (Feb 11, 2004)

About the 15 grams of glutamine no need for that much 5 grams of glutamine is effective enough.

3 grams is better than none and is okay but 5 is better.


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## Tha Don (Feb 16, 2004)

5 grams 3x a day = 15g

that is recommended by most to see effective results from glutamine

peace


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## myCATpowerlifts (Feb 16, 2004)

tenxyearsx you need to give us an update, im very interested in this thread, cuz it could apply to me very well


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