# Sleep is obsolete



## Mudge (Sep 24, 2003)

Anyone want to comment on this?



> "The development of modafinil brings to light a crucial social question. What would be the impediment for its use, if a compound such as modafinil is more like caffeine than amphetamine in terms of safety, and yet, as effective as the amphetamines?"
> 
> This quote is from an article published by the Aerospace Medical Association about the recently approved drug modafinil. It has come to my attention that many elite bodybuilders and athletes are using the drug modafinil in order to optimize their sleep cycles and obtain peak performance while they are awake. Modafinil is such an interesting drug, because it enables someone to remain awake for a very long time, say three or four days, with out needing sleep. And what makes Modafinil special, is that while it promotes a prolonged wakefulness, it is not stimulating in the way amphetamine, cocaine, or coffee are stimulating.
> 
> ...


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## derekisdman (Sep 24, 2003)

Before I read something so long is it worth the read?


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## Flex (Sep 24, 2003)

Wow, i need to get me some of those! 

That would be insane...to not have to sleep! I wonder if the body would grow muscle (since it grows only while your asleep)...


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## oaktownboy (Sep 24, 2003)

have there been any long term studies or is this product "new" to hit the streets?


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## oaktownboy (Sep 24, 2003)

talk about what it could do for us in college


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## Mudge (Sep 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oaktownboy *_
> have there been any long term studies or is this product "new" to hit the streets?



Unless they are skirting the FDA by calling it a supplement (and its not on any current drug lists) then the only question is "what is long term."


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## Mudge (Sep 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Flex *_
> That would be insane...to not have to sleep! I wonder if the body would grow muscle (since it grows only while your asleep)...



I have heard in the past that they could get the body to not need sleep, but not the brain which is believable. Remember this is the time when the brain does its maintenance, as well as the body though (GH release).


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## Mudge (Oct 9, 2003)

Thanks to Nandi12 for digging this up.

J Sleep Res. 1998 Jun;7(2):105-14. 

Effect of modafinil on plasma melatonin, cortisol and growth hormone rhythms, rectal temperature and performance in healthy subjects during a 36 h sleep deprivation.

Brun J, Chamba G, Khalfallah Y, Girard P, Boissy I, Bastuji H, Sassolas G, Claustrat B.

Service de Radiopharmacie et Radioanalyse, Centre de Medecine Nucleaire, Hopital NeuroCardiologique, Lyon, France.

Modafinil is an alerting substance which has been used successfully to treat narcolepsy. Nothing is known about its effect on hormone secretions. For this purpose, eight healthy young men were enrolled in a double blind trial to test the effects of modafinil on daily plasma melatonin, cortisol and growth hormone (GH) rhythms. Blood was sampled for hormone assays, every hour during the daytime and every 30 min during the nighttime. In addition, rectal temperature and mental performances were determined during the study which comprised 3 sessions, two weeks apart: a 24 h control session including a night with sleep (S1) and two 48 h sessions S2 and S3 with a sleep-deprived night (N1) followed by a recovery night (N2). Modafinil (300 mg x 2) or placebo were randomly attributed during N1 at 22 h and 8 h. As expected, performance was improved after modafinil administration and body temperature was maintained or increased. Plasma melatonin and cortisol profiles were similar after modafinil and placebo administration. The levels observed during the recovery and the control nights (N2) displayed no difference. For GH, during both sleep deprived nights, secretion was dramatically reduced compared with the control one, although the number of secretory episodes was unchanged. These data show that the alerting property of modafinil is not related to an alteration of hormone profiles and suggest that the acute modafinil administration is devoid of short-term side-effects.


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## Dale Mabry (Oct 9, 2003)

"Modafinil on the other hand promotes a more selective firing of the neurons primarily in the prefrontal cortex of the brain. The prefrontal cortex of the brain is where we believe many of the functions related to attention, engagement, and focus lie. "

This kinda scares me.  If it selectively fires neurons that are not accustomed to being fired for long periods of time, could there be some sort of "burnout" of these neurons down the road?


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## KoRn01ForLife (Oct 10, 2003)

this is some scary shit.....to think that this may be a supplement rather than an FDA approved drug sickens me, becuase if it was assessed by the FDA, it wouldn't be allowed to be sold, guaranteed


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## Mudge (Oct 10, 2003)

Neurons that go unused die, i.e. memories - but I dont know. This is a DRUG not a legal supplement. For now at least it is being used with narcoleptic patients.


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## DIVINITUS (Oct 10, 2003)

I don't understand...I think I am missing something here.  The original article talks about sleeping two, maybe three eight hour sessions per week while being totally alert and focused during the rest of the time.  While college mid-terms and business meetings may call for this once in awhile I don't see the everyday benefit, or for that matter, any benefits for weight training.  True, we all need a pick me up every now and then, but I personally don't need something to keep me alert for 24 hours or more.  I also work nights from 6pm to 6am so I know the pitfalls that come with the shift concerning fatigue.  
   The biggest problem I have with the original article is that it portrays sleep as something that justs gets in the way.  While Modafinil may keep me alert and focused at the tasks at hand, I haven't read anything that talks about its ability to regenerate the cells and muscles in the body.  That's because right now a pill isn't going to replace the beneits of sleep.  Can you imagine how long an injury would take to heal if you only slept 16 hours a week?  How about building muscle?  Again, I admit there are plenty of reasons to use something like Modafinil, but I also do not agree with the information about the rats and the toxins that accumulated do to lack of sleep.  The article stated there was no evidence to suggest something like this in humans.  Maybe we wouldn't build up the SAME toxins, but if the human body goes without sleep for roughly 7 to 10 days, it dies.  It's that simple. 

Just my thoughts........Thanks for the info on Modafinil, it was interesting reading either way.


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## BigBallaGA (Oct 10, 2003)

nothing can replace my sleep.  i love sleeping, especially on my nice new mattress with a comforter.  i also noticed that sleeping without the metal bed frame is much better for me personally.  i like being closer to the ground (oriental style), i just have the thing that mattresses sit on (cant remmeber the name) and them my thick mattress right on top, its great and no need for headboard or metal frame.


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## BigBallaGA (Oct 10, 2003)




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## Mudge (Oct 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DIVINITUS *_
> True, we all need a pick me up every now and then, but I personally don't need something to keep me alert for 24 hours or more. I also work nights from 6pm to 6am so I know the pitfalls that come with the shift concerning fatigue.



I used to work overnights years ago, statistically night workers sleep 4-5 hours a night instead of 7-7.5, kind of hard when you get off of work and its daylight!



> biggest problem I have with the original article is that it portrays sleep as something that justs gets in the way. While Modafinil may keep me alert and focused at the tasks at hand, I haven't read anything that talks about its ability to regenerate the cells and muscles in the body.



This is exactly why I put forth the question on when is GH released and what triggers it, and then posted a response.



> Maybe we wouldn't build up the SAME toxins, but if the human body goes without sleep for roughly 7 to 10 days, it dies.



Some people yes, I've done 6 days myself, no speed - I was 15 years old. However the world record is somewhere around 30 days.


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## DIVINITUS (Oct 11, 2003)

10-4.


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## DIVINITUS (Oct 11, 2003)




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## maniclion (Oct 11, 2003)

I need a nap.


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## Vieope (Apr 27, 2004)

_Anybody tried this yet ? 
"Modiodal (modafinil, aka ""Provigil"") 30 tablets x 100mg by " 
*Modiodal (modafinil) 100mg - $135.00* _


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## and1_4ever (Apr 27, 2004)

this sounds nuts, I cant imagine being up for that long, or what I would do with all that free time.  I just wish I could get up on time for classes.  This would be pretty awesome for finals week though....


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## Mudge (Apr 30, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Vieope *_
> _Anybody tried this yet ?
> "Modiodal (modafinil, aka ""Provigil"") 30 tablets x 100mg by "
> *Modiodal (modafinil) 100mg - $135.00* _



I know someone who has stock in them but I dont know that he has used it, I'm sure supplies are watched and not made underground as of yet.

P-GH seems to help give restfull sleep just like GH does, taken about 2 hours before bedtime, however if you fear injections its probably not going to work for you.

www.universalkits.com has it and is a site sponsor.


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## Michael D (May 2, 2004)

So I am assuming it is not legal to posess without a perscription?  Is it legal anywhere?


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## Mudge (May 2, 2004)

Its a very new product so it would only be made by one company legally. I dont know if its exported at all, reportedly pilots were using it during the recent conflicts.

Its definitely prescription only, it doesn't have side effects like speed does, but you bet that something like this would not be some OTC "supplement," that would be crazy.


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## TrojanMan60563 (May 2, 2004)

Hey Mudge any thoughts of using this stuff during a cutting phase? I imagine if you are up and active for days at a time you would end up burning more calories in a 24 hour period then if you slept 8 of the 24.


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## Monolith (May 2, 2004)

You can order it online thru canadian pharmacies.


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## SuperGlu (May 3, 2004)

> You can order it online thru canadian pharmacies


Do you need a script?


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## Mudge (May 3, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by TrojanMan60563 *_
> I imagine if you are up and active for days at a time you would end up burning more calories in a 24 hour period then if you slept 8 of the 24.



A couple things that come to mind are, how do you not go insane, and what about hGH release which occurs at night when you are preparing to rest.

Perhaps though most of the fear of halucinating and "going insane" are because of the brain itself being tired, which this supposedly turns off.


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## TrojanMan60563 (May 4, 2004)

Yeah I need my sleep. Without it I do get that going crazy going to drop dead feeling. With this drug my worry would be how does your body do coming off of it? I would think your sleeping patterns would be majorly hosed, and would probably take some time to readjust after a few straight days being up


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## Vieope (May 4, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> Its definitely prescription only


 


> ... No prescription needed, Worldwide delivery




_Type modafinil on  froogle. _


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