# HGH hype or fact!?



## REXORE (Mar 29, 2010)

I would like some opinions on HGH, how long do i need to be on for results. Are the gains worth the price tag? Are the gaind JUST organ growth? Will it help me heal faster? im on sust 4 blend organon 2 cc a week 500 mg a week. Its my second cycle should i add in a lil cyp???


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## Dark Geared God (Mar 29, 2010)

REXORE said:


> I would like some opinions on HGH, how long do i need to be on for results. Are the gains worth the price tag? Are the gaind JUST organ growth? Will it help me heal faster? im on sust 4 blend organon 2 cc a week 500 mg a week. Its my second cycle should i add in a lil cyp???


organ groth is a myth...

it takes months to really see results are you looking for mass of the youthful thing? and what is your age. if your looking for mass .. test dbol

heavyiron or ponyshow would know more about peps and roids... do a little research in the anabolic zone(here) there is some great info..


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## sassy69 (Mar 29, 2010)

Its not test so its not going to promote hypertrophy. It does work to support the lowered production of human growth hormone as you get older. Its not a dramatic change but rather supports your whole body in optimzing everything that is related to "youth" - silky hair, more supple skin, better recovery, greater sense of well-being, greater tendency to not promote bodyfat.

If you're expecting "gains" its not realy like that -but rather would support the gains of an AAS cycle. 

Just like the idea of not recommending the use of AAS when you're < 21 (as a guy anyway) because you're at your optimal and maximum natural testosterone production, you're also at your optimal natural hGH production.


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## VictorZ06 (Mar 29, 2010)

Post your age.

I've been using HGH for close to 3 years now (I'm 33).  How you use it and what you use it with makes all the difference in the world.  HGH works MUCH better when it's used in an anabolic environment.  Gains are worth it if you know how to use it.  I personally use it with test, slin, and IGF and it works wonders for me.  I don't suggest messing with this kind of setup until you have reached your maximum genetic potential.  Mind you, you need to do a LOT of research if you plan to mess with slin.  One slip up can cost you your life.

Mixing sust and cyp together is pointless (sust has cyp in it).  All you will be doing is causing your blood plasma levels to flux.  Your test dose should be the same throughout the entire cycle, unless you use some prop to front.

HGH works differently for everyone, age plays the biggest role.  The older you are, the less you need.  Dose depends on what your goals are as well.

You can use HGH to bulk and add more mass, this is called hyperplasia and it takes a VERY long time.  Basically, HGH causes our body to produce more muscle cells, AAS simply makes them bigger.  Although there are tests that confirm that test can also cause hyperplasia.  If you don't have the funds or the means to use HGH for at least 6-8 months, I wouldn't bother with it.  IMHO.


/V


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## Perdido (Mar 29, 2010)

I'm on week two and noticed a difference at day 3 at 2iu's per day with weekends off. Nothing dramatic but I'm liking it so far. First time in months I've slept last night all night without shoulder pain.


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## weldingman (Mar 29, 2010)

cypionate is in sustanon?


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## VictorZ06 (Mar 29, 2010)

weldingman said:


> cypionate is in sustanon?



By bad, decanoate.


/V


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## Hammer-She-Rides (Mar 30, 2010)

Im on box 2 doing 3iu/ed 5on 2off and lately the fat has been melting off.  Love it.

also on Test P/tren A/anavar/T3/T4.


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## sassy69 (Mar 30, 2010)

Any comments of use of T3 and / or T4 w/ GH?


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## Hammer-She-Rides (Mar 30, 2010)

sassy69 said:


> Any comments of use of T3 and / or T4 w/ GH?


 


Ive searched about this alot, and got too many different opinions on dosing.  Im doing 100mcgs of T4/ed and 20mcgs of T3/ed....and i think its the perfect dose for me anyways.  like i said, its just melting off and im doing very minimul cardio, maybe 30 mins a week.


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## VictorZ06 (Mar 30, 2010)

sassy69 said:


> Any comments of use of T3 and / or T4 w/ GH?



What I have recently learned about T3 is a bit confusing.  Needless to say, it was always said that you should only use it during a short period of time, and that the dose should be tapered up and down.  The reason why we tapered up and down was to avoid "thyroid shock", and that I believe is now considered a myth after seeing some studies (I believe Heavy posted them).

So, from my understanding...one can run T3 all year round and not have to worry about messing up your thyroid.  I've only used it with the pyramid plan and never went past 8 weeks.  Many have gone for a long time with it, hopefully some of them will chime in.

Sassy, T3 works wonders with clen and HGH!!  But because of these new studies, I hesitate to throw any doses up here as I can not speak from personal experience of prolonged T3 use.

/V


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## Hammer-She-Rides (Mar 30, 2010)

VictorZ06 said:


> What I have recently learned about T3 is a bit confusing. Needless to say, it was always said that you should only use it during a short period of time, and that the dose should be tapered up and down. The reason why we tapered up and down was to avoid "thyroid shock", and that I believe is now considered a myth after seeing some studies (I believe Heavy posted them).
> 
> So, from my understanding...one can run T3 all year round and not have to worry about messing up your thyroid. I've only used it with the pyramid plan and never went past 8 weeks. Many have gone for a long time with it, hopefully some of them will chime in.
> 
> ...


 
What do you think would be best for pct during my hgh cycle? should i stop the t3/t4 during my aas pct to minimize my lost gains, or should i run my t3/t4 until the end of my hgh through my pct?


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## Perdido (Mar 30, 2010)

I've been back to running sarm s4 with gh during pct and after have been happy with results.


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## VictorZ06 (Mar 30, 2010)

Hammer-She-Rides said:


> What do you think would be best for pct during my hgh cycle? should i stop the t3/t4 during my aas pct to minimize my lost gains, or should i run my t3/t4 until the end of my hgh through my pct?



Keep in mind that T3 not only eats fat, but it loves to chew muscle away as well.  So yes, I would stop the T3.  I don't run T3 or T4 until several weeks after my AAS cycle has ended.  I'm not sure if I understood your first question about HGH and PCT.  If you are asking what PCT to run post an HGH run, PCT is not needed.

/V


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## Hammer-She-Rides (Mar 30, 2010)

VictorZ06 said:


> Keep in mind that T3 not only eats fat, but it loves to chew muscle away as well. So yes, I would stop the T3. I don't run T3 or T4 until several weeks after my AAS cycle has ended. I'm not sure if I understood your first question about HGH and PCT. If you are asking what PCT to run post an HGH run, PCT is not needed.
> 
> /V


 

No sorry i meant im running HGH plus T3/T4 currently, i have been on for two months and just started my aas cycle 2 weeks ago. My hgh will end about 2 months after my pct. my question was during pct should i stop t3/t4 ? cuz i want to keep as much gains as possible and knew that t3 eats muscle.  and should i start back on the t3/t4 after my pct is over? or should i just run the hgh alone for the remaining 2 months?


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## VictorZ06 (Mar 30, 2010)

Hammer-She-Rides said:


> No sorry i meant im running HGH plus T3/T4 currently, i have been on for two months and just started my aas cycle 2 weeks ago. My hgh will end about 2 months after my pct. my question was during pct should i stop t3/t4 ? cuz i want to keep as much gains as possible and knew that t3 eats muscle.  and should i start back on the t3/t4 after my pct is over? or should i just run the hgh alone for the remaining 2 months?



If I was in your shoes, I would wait and see where you are at after your cycle.  If your BF% is low enough, I wouldn't bother with it.  Running the HGH alone for another 2 months is not going to yield anything significant.  Your call bro.

/V


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## Hammer-She-Rides (Mar 30, 2010)

VictorZ06 said:


> If I was in your shoes, I would wait and see where you are at after your cycle. If your BF% is low enough, I wouldn't bother with it. Running the HGH alone for another 2 months is not going to yield anything significant. Your call bro.
> 
> /V


 
Hmmm, good point. never thought of that...Thanks Victor


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## REXORE (Mar 30, 2010)

Wow guy, thanks for all the info, i would be using it for total body recovery do to the fact that im 34 and a heavy concrete carpenter and work some crazy hard days and hours and miss some sleep at times. Just feeling old and beat up i guess lol.


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## downtown (Mar 30, 2010)

It takes a minimum of 6-8 weeks to notice results from HGH, even then its not dramatic.  I believe 6 months is the best duration for HGH, slin  or igf with HGH is amazing but also more dangerous than just slin alone, not recommended unless you have a 100% solid protocol, i preffer Milos's pre work out protocol.  

PCT for hgh, would most likely be GHRP6, or 2, or even CJC, but i havent seen a standard outline for an HGH pct.  

As for T3/T4, i like using a very low dose to increase protien uptake throughout the day, its great for the 10,000 cal bulkers ( i dont do these).  

Also if your using HGH, i would highly recommend being a non smoker, and getting screened for cancer prior to usage.  I speeds up cellular growth and recovery, so if you have active pre cancerous cells then your speeding up the cancers growth and development too.


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## Iron Dragon (Mar 30, 2010)

The Situation said:


> organ groth is a myth...
> 
> it takes months to really see results are you looking for mass of the youthful thing? and what is your age. if your looking for mass .. test dbol
> 
> heavyiron or ponyshow would know more about peps and roids... do a little research in the anabolic zone(here) there is some great info..



Organ growth is not a myth. In fact, in intestines have more IGF-1 receptors than any where else in the body. GH it's self may not cause much organ growth, but systemic IGF-1 does. Including the heart, which can cause Heart failure from enlarged heart.  



VictorZ06 said:


> Keep in mind that T3 not only eats fat, but it loves to chew muscle away as well.  So yes, I would stop the T3.  I don't run T3 or T4 until several weeks after my AAS cycle has ended.  I'm not sure if I understood your first question about HGH and PCT.  If you are asking what PCT to run post an HGH run, PCT is not needed.
> 
> /V



If you running 4iu or more a day, I suggest you continue with low does t3 or t4 therapy while continuing your GH. Even with out AAS. Ts is not as catabolic as many think, and only in higher doses. 



downtown said:


> It takes a minimum of 6-8 weeks to notice results from HGH, even then its not dramatic.  I believe 6 months is the best duration for HGH, slin  or igf with HGH is amazing but also more dangerous than just slin alone, not recommended unless you have a 100% solid protocol, i preffer Milos's pre work out protocol.
> 
> PCT for hgh, would most likely be GHRP6, or 2, or even CJC, but i havent seen a standard outline for an HGH pct.
> 
> ...



I do not agree with the theory of it takes for ever to see results. If you have real high quality GH, you will notice results in the first couple of weeks.


Here is the bottom line, if your lucky enough to get real high quality HGH, you will be very impressed. Though do not expect hGH to make you explode with gains. One of the most impressive traits of GH is it's ability to induce lipolysis. It can allow you to make impressive gains while remaining lean or loosing body fat at the same time. There are multiple ways to take GH depending on goals as well. Maintaining consistent blood levels daily is the best way to utilze its fat burning properties. This also yields the lowest side effects. For bulk, you want to create the greatest amplitude or spike as possible to trigger local IGF-1 production. This is where it is best to take in higher doses eod or three days a week. 

Another thing that is important, is that hepatic Igf-1 production is not what causes the majority of muscle growth. It is actually the local tissue, or in  bb'er's case, muscle cells, own production of IGF-1 (autocrine/paracrine) that promotes the most muscle growth. Which is what most of us use GH for. There is so much science involved behind how GH and how it works, I am barely scratching the surface on this post.


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## downtown (Mar 31, 2010)

I dont care what quality HGH your getting it takes 6 weeks to notice a change in body composition, even script hyge or even the Glotrophin ( top dollar shit) takes 6 weeks to see a noticable difference.  I get my advice from people who have already been there done that, so ima take there word for it.


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## VictorZ06 (Mar 31, 2010)

downtown said:


> I get my advice from people who have already been there done that, so ima take there word for it.



Were they all running HGH on it's own...or perhaps along side an AAS cycle?


/V


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## VictorZ06 (Mar 31, 2010)

Dragon_MD said:


> If you running 4iu or more a day, I suggest you continue with low does t3 or t4 therapy while continuing your GH. Even with out AAS. Ts is not as catabolic as many think, and only in higher doses.



Like I mentioned earlier, the way most of us would run T3/T4 in the past was to use a pyramid program, tapering the dose up and down for a few weeks at a time.  So I never ran it long term.

I now realize after reading a few new and recent studies, T3 can be run all year long without risk to your thyroid, that "shock" we all talked about turns out to be a myth. 

I've considered running more T3 along side of my HGH, but when I'm off cycle (test), I run my HGH with slin and IGF and all has worked very well.  I've been in the single digit BF% numbers for a good 2 years now.  How would I benefit by taking more T3 (when off cycle) along side of my HGH/slin/IGF?  I was always under the impression that too much T3 will stop or decrease IGF production that the HGH that I'm using promotes.

/V


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## Iron Dragon (Mar 31, 2010)

It may actually be better to run t4 with Gh rather than t3. Or t4 with a little t3, something like75-100mcg t4 to 25mcg of t3. GH increases the rate at which t4 is converted into t3. But after a while, t4 is converted so rapidly that there becomes little to convert to t3. Excess t3 also down regulates  the enzyme 5'deiodinase, which initiates the process that converts t4 to t3. There actually 3 types of this enzyme, d1, d2, and d3. D1 and D2 are responsible for the conversion of t4 to t3. While d3 is involved in it's deactivation

Now Gh is responsible for an acceleration of t4 to t3 conversion. But when gh levels get too high, it triggers the hypothalamus to produce more Somatostatin. Increased levels of somatostatin also inhibits TSH production. Now this leads to too much t3 and little t4 which in turns tells the thyroid to signal for less production of d1 and d2 and to produce more d3, which negates the synergism that GH and t3 have together. So this is why it would be better to supplement GH with t4 rather than t3 alone. 

Now to the contrary,when there much t3 and levels of t4, as stated above, this increases d3. When levels of d3 are high, it stimulates the production of growth factors including IGF-1 which is important to the anabolic effects of GH. 

So what does all this mean?? I take it as saying that taking t4 with t3 would cause the most synergism with GH. Rather than t3 alone.


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## Iron Dragon (Mar 31, 2010)

downtown said:


> I dont care what quality HGH your getting it takes 6 weeks to notice a change in body composition, even script hyge or even the Glotrophin ( top dollar shit) takes 6 weeks to see a noticable difference.  I get my advice from people who have already been there done that, so ima take there word for it.



Believe me, I have already been there, and done that, for the past ten years, as well as many of my friends who have done so even longer. The effects of GH can be noticed in the first few weeks. And since when is hygetropin a scripted GH? Did you know there are two maker's of hygetropin now, and is one of he most commonly counterfeited?

 I assume you know you see nothing from gh until 6 weeks from personal experience? 

And I assume you mean *Glotropin* from globalanabolics or global lbiotech LTD, not glotrophin, cause that's a new one to me. And I got news for you, glotropins are made in one of the same factories as many of teh generics come from. It does not produce it's own GH. 

But perhaps your idea of noticeable is different from mine.


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## REXORE (Apr 1, 2010)

If i was to run hgh alone would that be a waste? By alone i mean with my test but with no t3 or t4. What are the risks of running t4??


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## Hammer-She-Rides (Apr 1, 2010)

REXORE said:


> If i was to run hgh alone would that be a waste? By alone i mean with my test but with no t3 or t4. What are the risks of running t4??


 




VictorZ06 said:


> Like I mentioned earlier, the way most of us would run T3/T4 in the past was to use a pyramid program, tapering the dose up and down for a few weeks at a time. So I never ran it long term.
> 
> I now realize after reading a few new and recent studies, T3 can be run all year long without risk to your thyroid, that "shock" we all talked about turns out to be a myth.
> 
> ...


 .


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## downtown (Apr 1, 2010)

I mean noticable via body composition.  And these guys( 2) have been at it 20+ years, made it to the top and retired, and a few still at national levels, and a few MMA guys.  And they were definitly not using HGH by itself, usually slin, igf, mgf, and AAS.  

Yes, you will notice better sleep, shorter recovery time, better energy for some, but as far as visual results it takes about 6 weeks.


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## Road Warrior (May 6, 2010)

So why do alot of professional athletes take it? Over AAS cycles


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## Hammer-She-Rides (May 6, 2010)

Road Warrior said:


> So why do alot of professional athletes take it? Over AAS cycles


 

I Think most of them take HGH and AAS together.  plus HGH is hard to test for, over AAS


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## VictorZ06 (May 6, 2010)

Road Warrior said:


> So why do alot of professional athletes take it? Over AAS cycles



One reason is that it is extremely hard to detect in drug tests.

/V


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## sassy69 (May 6, 2010)

Recovery, but probably more + AAS.


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## Road Warrior (May 7, 2010)

Ok that makes alot of sense. But for an Athlete like Rodney Harrison (Former NFL Saftey) what kind of gains would some one like him would use it for. Size? Strength? Thanks for the help


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## Iron Dragon (May 7, 2010)

Recovery, cardiac performance, lipolysis, many reasons.


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