# tuna



## raider6969 (May 17, 2006)

is eating tuna with 1 tbls of real mayo and some brwon rice ok for a last meal?


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## Jodi (May 17, 2006)

If you are bulking.


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## assassin (May 17, 2006)

raider6969 said:
			
		

> is eating tuna with 1 tbls of real mayo and some brwon rice ok for a last meal?




if u r cutting don't eat carbs on the last meal and try to decrease ur carb intake gradually through the day such that ur first meal has the higher carb intake and the prebed meal has no carbs............in the last meal consume protein (tuna or cottage cheese works the best)+ efas


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## raider6969 (May 17, 2006)

if im eating around 125 g of carbs per day,and im cutting, how many carbs should i eat on the 1st,2nd 3rd etc meal? 2nd beeing after workout?


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## raider6969 (May 17, 2006)

what difference does it make whether i eat 125 g of carbs evenly through6 meals or i eat more during the day?


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## assassin (May 18, 2006)

raider6969 said:
			
		

> what difference does it make whether i eat 125 g of carbs evenly through6 meals or i eat more during the day?




ok carbs are the most important fuel to the body it fills the muscles with glycogen and helps u to perform well in ur workout and have a good ratio of sugars in ur blood and supports u with energy needed through the day.. also after ur workout ur glycogen is depleted u must eat carbs to recover well and to refill ur glycogen stores ....when u wake up in the morning also ur glycpgen stores are depleted ....so u must eat enough carbs at the morning and during the day......but before u sleep  carbs are needed for energy and u dont' need a lot of energy when u r sleeping so any carbs u'll eat before sleping will be stored as fats to be used on the other day......protein is needed to supply the muscles with amino acids while sleeping for repair and growth...also fats because it has something to do with hormonal release in the body (i don't know exactly).........read bbfm for tom venuto . it's gr8


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## assassin (May 18, 2006)

125 grams of carbs is too low but i'll suggest that if u eat 120 grams of carbs eat 3o grams in prewok out meal and 30 in the post work out and 20 in the 3 remaining meals and nocarbs before u sleep in ur six meal......but maybe u better increase ur carb intake a little bit ...what's ur weight??


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## raider6969 (May 18, 2006)

212 lbs


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## raider6969 (May 18, 2006)

what about cardio days? first 2 meals  eat half the days carbs also?


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## assassin (May 18, 2006)

no not half of it just increase ur carbs a litle bit after the workout, i don't like the idea of 125 grams only of carbs per day...... i am 173 and i eat 150-180 grams of carbs per day


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## assassin (May 18, 2006)

i suggest if u want to go low in carbs so eat 200grams carbs +250grams of protein + 70gram od fat


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## Twin Peak (May 18, 2006)

Wow, this thread is full of a lot of crap, hyperbole, generalizations, and misinformation.  So much so, that I am not even sure where to begin.

Firstly, NO ONE can answer your questions, Raider, until we know the context of your question:

* what are your goals?
* what are your stats?
* what is your pheno and genotype?
* what are your predispositions?
* what is your training history?
* what is your diet history?
* what does your current traiing look like?
* what does your current diet look like?

If you answer these questions, someone will be able to provide decent advice and guidance.  Anyone who is trying to dole out advice without that information, is just overgeneralizing.

It is silly to say, for example, that 125 grams of carbs is good or bad.  Some cut at less than that.  Some bulk with less than that.  Some cut with more than that.

There is no absolutes in dieting and training, everything depends on context.


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## assassin (May 18, 2006)

Twin Peak said:
			
		

> Wow, this thread is full of a lot of crap, hyperbole, generalizations, and misinformation.  So much so, that I am not even sure where to begin.
> 
> Firstly, NO ONE can answer your questions, Raider, until we know the context of your question:
> 
> ...




ok who r u to say that............he is 212 lbs and he wants to cut and it's obvious that he has got high bf% so i said that it's wrong to go so low in carbs from the very begining of the diet because then he won't be able to decrease carbs more and that and he may stop progressing well.... so pls say something benifical to oters and not just every thing is crap ....though u said nothing but crap


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## assassin (May 18, 2006)

Twin Peak said:
			
		

> Wow, this thread is full of a lot of crap, hyperbole, generalizations, and misinformation.  So much so, that I am not even sure where to begin.
> 
> Firstly, NO ONE can answer your questions, Raider, until we know the context of your question:
> 
> ...




by the way u........the information i'm saying is from the bffm as i told him of tom venuto he says that it's wrong to go so low in carbs ( i know some bb go lower than that but this is in the very advanced period of diet to reach the competitive line......he says that for a good diet the range (15-25 fats ) and carbs for 40-45 and even 55 sometimes) (and the rest is protein)

so from where are u talking or what's ur reference or even y u r here??????for telling that every thing is crap


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## Twin Peak (May 18, 2006)

assassin said:
			
		

> ok who r u to say that............



I am nobody.



			
				assassin said:
			
		

> he is 212 lbs and he wants to cut and it's obvious that he has got high bf% so i said that it's wrong to go so low in carbs from the very begining of the diet because then he won't be able to decrease carbs more and that and he may stop progressing well.... so pls say something benifical to oters and not just every thing is crap ....though u said nothing but crap



And in case you didn't understand my post, I can't possibly given him advice without the above information.  Or should I just make stuff up based on assumptions?  That might be fun.  But it wouldn't be helpful.

And my post was quite "beneficial", perhaps you should reread it.

Since you have butted in, how do you know he is high BF?  How do you know he hasn't already lost 100 pounds, and he has 10 to go?  How do you know whether he is insulin resistant, or maybe diabetic? 

And I was trying to be nice.  Would you like me to pick a part the flaws and misunderstandings in this post?



> ok carbs are the most important fuel to the body it fills the muscles with glycogen and helps u to perform well in ur workout and have a good ratio of sugars in ur blood and supports u with energy needed through the day.. also after ur workout ur glycogen is depleted u must eat carbs to recover well and to refill ur glycogen stores ....when u wake up in the morning also ur glycpgen stores are depleted ....so u must eat enough carbs at the morning and during the day......but before u sleep carbs are needed for energy and u dont' need a lot of energy when u r sleeping so any carbs u'll eat before sleping will be stored as fats to be used on the other day......protein is needed to supply the muscles with amino acids while sleeping for repair and growth...also fats because it has something to do with hormonal release in the body (i don't know exactly).........read bbfm for tom venuto . it's gr8


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## Jodi (May 18, 2006)

Twin Peak said:
			
		

> I am nobody.


I've been telling you that for years and now you finally listen?


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## tucker01 (May 18, 2006)

Twin Peak said:
			
		

> I am nobody.


 
Hahaha.

I was waiting for somebody to set up


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## Jodi (May 18, 2006)

assassin said:
			
		

> by the way u........the information i'm saying is from the bffm as i told him of tom venuto he says that it's wrong to go so low in carbs ( i know some bb go lower than that but this is in the very advanced period of diet to reach the competitive line......he says that for a good diet the range (15-25 fats ) and carbs for 40-45 and even 55 sometimes) (and the rest is protein)
> 
> so from where are u talking or what's ur reference or even y u r here??????for telling that every thing is crap


Little background info and a bit of advice.  Look and research who you are talking to before attacking.  http://www.mindandmuscle.net/magmain.php?issueID=30&pageID=159
www.designersupps.com

Tom Venuto's diet doesn't differ from anything other than a 40/40/20.  JMO.


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## Dale Mabry (May 18, 2006)

Jodi said:
			
		

> Tom Venuto is lame, boring, and his diet doesn't differ from anything other than a 40/40/20.  JMO.


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## Jodi (May 18, 2006)

Hey it's fine for a beginner but you can't get any more info from his book that you can get from the stickies


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## Twin Peak (May 18, 2006)

Jodi said:
			
		

> I've been telling you that for years and now you finally listen?



It finally sunk in.


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## Jodi (May 18, 2006)

I've said this often and I know Rob doesn't like it but I won't ever tell a member to go buy his book unless they want all the basic data in a neat little package.  I have no problem showing support for our sponsors IF I feel the members will benefit from it.  i.e. I like All the Whey and their protein so I send people there to buy protein.  Tom's book does nothing for me and I will be damned if I am going to promote it


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## Arnold (May 18, 2006)

Jodi said:
			
		

> Hey it's fine for a beginner but you can't get any more info from his book that you can get from the stickies



I agree it is more geared towards a beginner, but based on the rest of what you said I know you have not read the ebook.


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## Twin Peak (May 18, 2006)

Where did he go?  We were having so much fun!


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## Jodi (May 18, 2006)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> I agree it is more geared towards a beginner, but based on the rest of what you said I know you have not read the ebook.


Actually I have several times and yes, I own it.  

It comes down to a basic plan and direction for a beginner.  There is not anything that special about it at all.    Not starting shit, just speaking the facts.


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## Arnold (May 18, 2006)

Jodi said:
			
		

> Tom's book does nothing for me and I will be damned if I am going to promote it



I never asked you to promote it.


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## Jodi (May 18, 2006)

I know you didn't and I wasn't saying that.  But I have no problems promoting the sponsors that I do feel are worthwhile.


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## Pepper (May 18, 2006)

Wow. I clicked on this thread called "tuna" and stumbled into all this excitement. 

At least it didn't have people talking about making tuna-smoothies, that about made me puke.


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## Dale Mabry (May 18, 2006)

Atherjen should be banned for that, or was it peanut butter and tuna.  Either way she needs to be taken care of.


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## Twin Peak (May 18, 2006)

MMmmm, tuna shakes.


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## Pepper (May 18, 2006)

I think Rob should make it so "tuna shakes" shows ups as **** *****


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## Twin Peak (May 18, 2006)

only designer tuna shakes 

Where did my friend mr. assassin go?


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## P-funk (May 18, 2006)

this thread is funny.


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## atherjen (May 18, 2006)

this has made the end of my work day. 

amusing thread. 

TP- the nobody. im in trouble and I guess I have been mislead all these years  


tuna & salsa are good. mmmm


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## Twin Peak (May 18, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> this thread is funny.



Its amused the hell out of me.

Jen, ah hell, I have nothing funny to add.


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## Twin Peak (May 18, 2006)

Jen, like my new user title?


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## Twin Peak (May 18, 2006)

Wow.  Three mods, the admin, and one supermod all in the same thread.  Is the universe going to implode?  Isn't that like crossing the streams?


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## tucker01 (May 18, 2006)

And a nobody....

Don't forget the nobody


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## Twin Peak (May 18, 2006)

Damn good point!


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## atherjen (May 18, 2006)

Twin Peak said:
			
		

> Jen, like my new user title?




YES   congratulations.


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## soxmuscle (May 18, 2006)

Jen's back!?


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## raider6969 (May 18, 2006)

a little about me: my goal is to lose unwanted fat, get a six pack,not for any competition. im 6 feet, 212 lbs. i've been training for a long while now.
i train 3 times per week and 2 times cardio. i started dieting after new years day, where i weighed 228 lbs. i eat 6 times a day, 50% protein, 25 % fat and carbs.2100 cals per day now. and every saturday i cheat,eating lots of junk and protein.


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## Twin Peak (May 18, 2006)

How much more do you need to lose?  10-15 pounds?  If you have been making progress, and you continue to make progress, why change anything?


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## assassin (May 18, 2006)

Jodi said:
			
		

> Tom Venuto's diet doesn't differ from anything other than a 40/40/20.  JMO.



ok ...ok .. i'm sorry for the offense but y didn't u (twin) answer him instead of saying that  the thread has lots of crap....look my english is not so good that's why i may experience some trouble expressing or saying the information........(i'm egyptian) so instead of offending u better try to tell this guy what i'm trying to say or even something more benefical for him.......and pls jodi i really respect ur opinions and u helped me a lot with my diet  so pls apologize of what u just said   because tom venuto's book really explains every single word in the diet....but may be the diet he said he used was different somehow..and by the way 40/40/20 is a good baseline to start with and then slightly change it to fit with ur bt and ur needs....


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## assassin (May 18, 2006)

Twin Peak said:
			
		

> Where did my friend mr. assassin go?



sorry if i was late for this party  

just came in and saw this bunch of posts , much fun


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## Twin Peak (May 18, 2006)

assassin said:
			
		

> sorry if i was late for this party
> 
> just came in and saw this bunch of posts , much fun



I like this post -- you are officially back on my good side.  As to your other post, the reason I did not give any advice was because I had no idea what advice to give, absent the answer to those questions.

I apologize for not realizing that you were not a native english speaker, and just assumed you were dumb.


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## Jodi (May 18, 2006)

assassin said:
			
		

> ok ...ok .. i'm sorry for the offense but y didn't u (twin) answer him instead of saying that  the thread has lots of crap....look my english is not so good that's why i may experience some trouble expressing or saying the information........(i'm egyptian) so instead of offending u better try to tell this guy what i'm trying to say or even something more benefical for him.......and pls jodi i really respect ur opinions and u helped me a lot with my diet  so pls apologize of what u just said   because tom venuto's book really explains every single word in the diet....but may be the diet he said he used was different somehow..and by the way 40/40/20 is a good baseline to start with and then slightly change it to fit with ur bt and ur needs....


Don't sweat it   It's all good 

Yes, 40/40/20 is a good baseline for newbies.


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## Jodi (May 18, 2006)

Twin Peak said:
			
		

> and just assumed you were dumb.


Only you TP.  

Assassin - I apologize too if I offended you.  I should have kept my opinion to myself.  I'm glad that things about your diet that you and I discussed are working for you


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## Twin Peak (May 18, 2006)

You, keep your opinions to yourself?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!


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## aggies1ut (May 18, 2006)

Twin Peak said:
			
		

> You, keep your opinions to yourself?
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHAHA!


Btw Jodi, how do you _really_ feel about AR?


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## Twin Peak (May 18, 2006)

Awesome.


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## raider6969 (May 19, 2006)

for the past 3 weeks i hadnt  made any progress. i will now switch my ratio from 50-25-25 to 40-45-15  and not eat carbs on last meal,saturdays i will have a couple of cheat meals or eat a lot of carbs for the first 2-3 meals


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## assassin (May 19, 2006)

Jodi said:
			
		

> Only you TP.
> 
> Assassin - I apologize too if I offended you.  I should have kept my opinion to myself.  I'm glad that things about your diet that you and I discussed are working for you




yeah , i'm having good progress now .....  thnx 4 ur help ......


by the way i'm just joking i have no right to refuse ur opinion but i just meant that the book had much more info than this   ...


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## assassin (May 19, 2006)

Twin Peak said:
			
		

> I like this post -- you are officially back on my good side.  As to your other post, the reason I did not give any advice was because I had no idea what advice to give, absent the answer to those questions..




i just wanted to help but not enough vocabulary ....  and gr8 for being on ur good side 



			
				Twin Peak said:
			
		

> I apologize for not realizing that you were not a native english speaker, and just assumed you were dumb.




   it's ok my friend


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## assassin (May 19, 2006)

raider6969 said:
			
		

> for the past 3 weeks i hadnt  made any progress. i will now switch my ratio from 50-25-25 to 40-45-15  and not eat carbs on last meal,saturdays i will have a couple of cheat meals or eat a lot of carbs for the first 2-3 meals




  if u noticed a small increase in ur weight in the first couple of days that may be because ur body will begin carrying some more water due to increased carb intake ,so have patience, that happened to me after returning from a crapy zero carb diet and then i began to lose fats after it...u may increase ur fats intake  till 25 ,and when u progres with ur diet u may begin to lower carbs ....but it's all trial and error relating to ur body respond just have patience......

(other ppl here have much more knowledge than me ..so u can benefit a lot from them)


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## assassin (May 19, 2006)

Twin Peak said:
			
		

> How much more do you need to lose?  10-15 pounds?  If you have been making progress, and you continue to make progress, why change anything?




i assumed from his posts that he needs to lose more than that ...(because my height is near to him and i am 171 pounds  and i still need to lose 10-15 pounds to get a very low bf% so i thought the average for him will be more than that even if he had a good muscles mass....that's why i was saying that starting the journey with a very low carb diet will just be too hard and won't be so good) ....


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## raider6969 (May 19, 2006)

is 40-45-15 a good ratio for cutting?


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## raider6969 (May 19, 2006)

can i use 100% orange or apple juice  for carbs on some meals instaed of brown rice ,oatmeal, etc...?


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## tucker01 (May 19, 2006)

raider6969 said:
			
		

> can i use 100% orange or apple juice  for carbs on some meals instaed of brown rice ,oatmeal, etc...?


I wouldn't suggest it.


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## assassin (May 19, 2006)

raider6969 said:
			
		

> is 40-45-15 a good ratio for cutting?



fruits juices is not good high in sugars and loses many nutrients......better eat whole fruits(also oats and whole grains are essential for a good diet(they have a very low glycemic index))...considering the ratio it's all related to ur total calorie intake but let ur ratios in moderation specially in the begining ...untill u turn to the next level wich is getting to very low bf%  ......for me my daily fat intake is between 20-25 and i'm getting nice results....u should try .....also don;t start very low in anything not to make ur body get an alarm and start to decrease ur metabolism......15 is not very low but it's not moderate too.....


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## assassin (May 19, 2006)

raider6969 said:
			
		

> is 40-45-15 a good ratio for cutting?



fruits juices are not good high in sugars and loses many nutrients......better eat whole fruits...considering the ratio it's all related to ur total calorie intake but let ur ratios in moderation specially in the begining ...untill u turn to the next level wich is getting to very low bf%  ......for me my daily fat intake is between 20-25 and i'm getting nice results....u should try .....also don;t start very low in anything not to make ur body get an alarm and start to decrease ur metabolism......15 is not very low but it's not moderate too.....


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## assassin (May 19, 2006)

by the way eating wholefruits doesn't mean instead of oats and whole grains.....all are essential i eat 2 pieces of fruites daily and also oats and vegetables ....these are best sources of carbs ..u could eat whole grains too


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## Twin Peak (May 19, 2006)

assassin said:
			
		

> i assumed from his posts that he needs to lose more than that ...(because my height is near to him and i am 171 pounds  and i still need to lose 10-15 pounds to get a very low bf% so i thought the average for him will be more than that even if he had a good muscles mass....that's why i was saying that starting the journey with a very low carb diet will just be too hard and won't be so good) ....



Yeah, but he isn't starting his journey.

And I am several inches shorter, and weigh 225, so my thoughts are that he can't have that much more to lose unless (1) he is competing, or (2) he has almost no muscle mass.


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## assassin (May 19, 2006)

Twin Peak said:
			
		

> Yeah, but he isn't starting his journey.
> 
> And I am several inches shorter, and weigh 225, (umm u seem to have gr8 mass     i'm much less than that
> 
> ...



   maybe u have better advice for him but not to make him confused quote my posts (that u think needs some modification) and add ur comments on it...

and before that pls raider send ur complete stats (how much have u been lifting , age  bf% )


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## Twin Peak (May 19, 2006)

I can't really offer any better advice until I hear a response to this question.



> How much more do you need to lose? 10-15 pounds? If you have been making progress, and you continue to make progress, why change anything?


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## raider6969 (May 19, 2006)

twin peak:i was using a 50-25-25 ratio, i went from 228 lbs to 212 now. i have a digital fat caliper,but i dont think im usuing it well ,therfore i dont know my coreect bf%.i say around 12%.i wanna get to 7% hopefully. it seems though that for the past 3 weeks ive been stuck at 211-212 lbs.im eating 2100 cals per day.


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## Twin Peak (May 19, 2006)

Ah, okay.  Finally, some context.  So, bottom line, you are on the leanish side, and are looking to get shredded.  Well, the only change I would make, is that you should stop that cheating on the weekend you spoke about earlier.  If that doesn't work, you should make one day per week a VERY low calories day.  Around 1000 calories, mostly protein.


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## assassin (May 20, 2006)

Twin Peak said:
			
		

> Ah, okay.  Finally, some context.  So, bottom line, you are on the leanish side, and are looking to get shredded.  Well, the only change I would make, is that you should stop that cheating on the weekend you spoke about earlier.  If that doesn't work, you should make one day per week a VERY low calories day.  Around 1000 calories, mostly protein.




umm so u were right twin peak  i made a wrong assumption that he had a high bf% so raider ......i thought u were trying to lose 15% of bf that's why i told u not to go too low from the very begining........ i guess ur ratios are ok no need to raise ur calories i thought u said that u eat only 1500-1600 cal per day and that's too low for a 220 lbs person....but 2100 is ok...i answered u in a hurry..


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## Twin Peak (May 20, 2006)

Context.

There is no right answer in a vaccuum.


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## raider6969 (May 20, 2006)

so 50-25-25 is ok? and no carbs on last meal which is just b4 bedtime. 
when u say no cheating ,on saturdays, but does that mean no refeed? 
what about taking fat burners?
i just weighed myself, just as i do every saturday morning, i went from 211.8 to 210.2 . which is weird coz i didnt do anything different than the past 3 weeks and this time i lost weight.


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## assassin (May 20, 2006)

raider6969 said:
			
		

> so 50-25-25 is ok? and no carbs on last meal which is just b4 bedtime.
> when u say no cheating ,on saturdays, but does that mean no refeed?
> what about taking fat burners?
> i just weighed myself, just as i do every saturday morning, i went from 211.8 to 210.2 . which is weird coz i didnt do anything different than the past 3 weeks and this time i lost weight.



no cheating , but refeed is ok , i sent u a link to a page describing every thing about the refeed day.....read it well...about fat burners i read many studies saying that fat burners has no benefits at all on the long run, but maybe they could help u in a short period of time. i don't know exactly but if i were in ur place i wouldn't waste my money on fat burners..u could reach anything with ur diet.


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## Twin Peak (May 20, 2006)

I am not sure a refeed is necessary at this point for you, as you are still losing fat.  Try the one low cal day, and quite the weekend cheating.  In a month or so, add in a second low cal day, and then add in 1 REFEED meal, per week, after a depletion workout.

Fatburners -- I'll refrain from commenting, given my bias -- my company sells several very effective ones.


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## raider6969 (May 21, 2006)

what is a depletion workout?


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## Twin Peak (May 21, 2006)

A refeed is done for 2 reasons (1) to overfeed the body, and increase lepting respone and insulin sensitivity and (2) to replenish glycogen stores.

A refeed can be made more effective if you deplete glycogen even further by doing a high volume, high rep, low intensity workout immediately prior.


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## raider6969 (May 21, 2006)

wouldnt a long cardio session be the same as a depletion workout?
u said a low calorie day of 1000 of mostly protein. is that 75% of protein?
wouldnt i be starving all day long?


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## Twin Peak (May 21, 2006)

raider6969 said:
			
		

> wouldnt a long cardio session be the same as a depletion workout?



No.  The refeed is for the reasons I stated.  Cardio won't do the things a resistance training episode will do.


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## raider6969 (May 21, 2006)

how do i breakdown a low calorie day? in terms of protein carbs and fat?


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## shiznit2169 (May 21, 2006)

Tell me, why do you think Tom Venuto's ebook isn't all that special? Are you mad because he knows his stuff more than you guys do? 

tsk tsk tsk


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