# ass or shoulders



## irontime (Sep 5, 2002)

.......knees and toes

sorry couldn't resist 
just wondering if a shot in the shoulders would give more benefit to the upper body or if one should stick to the ass as it is a bigger muscle?


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## Mudge (Sep 5, 2002)

Rotate whereever and whenever you like, no benefit to hitting a certain spot.


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## Scotty the Body (Sep 5, 2002)

I think most use the "ass" so it doesn't show.


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## Mudge (Sep 5, 2002)

Its also one of the larger and less sensative and lowest 'sensativity' areas, the ass is perfect other than harder to reach.

Just avoid the calves, people report bad experiences.


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## ZECH (Sep 6, 2002)

I have heard some reports of scar tissue that builds up after repeated injects that will then get infected. That could be nasty! Be careful.


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## Mudge (Sep 6, 2002)

Yes, thats why rotation is neccessary, also if there is oil still in the same spot and you don't rotate you could cause an abcess to form and that would be bad (it can be drained if you catch it soon enough). Abcess can form also if the injection is not deep enough in the muscle.


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## XYchromeDome (Sep 6, 2002)

what the hell is Abcess?  I've been doing ass injections, rotating from side to side.   I want to hit my shoulder, but I'm afraid I'll mess it up.


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## irontime (Sep 6, 2002)

Great advice and thanx guys, but I was wondering if there would be a more noticable advantage to the upper body if you injected into the shoulder?


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## Mudge (Sep 6, 2002)

No, most anyone with experience will tell you spot injections is BS, only spread them out for the purposes of not abusing one spot as far as scar tissue/oil buildup. There may be some roids that work well in spot injection scenarios but I don't k now what they would be.

ab·scess   Pronunciation Key  (bss)
n. 
A localized collection of pus in part of the body, formed by tissue disintegration and surrounded by an inflamed area.

Heroin users get them. I have heard of rotting abcess wounds in the vagina when people run out of places to stick thier needles into a vein, discusting. No way man, shoulder is easy peasy, use a 1" needle, some use a 1.5" but you wont need it unless you have alot of fat in the way which is not likely.


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## crackerjack414 (Sep 6, 2002)

the only time you would use a site injection to enlarge size is pre comp; in an area such as the calves to inflame the tissue to appear larger


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## Mudge (Sep 6, 2002)

Some people can't walk for days after calves, so its not usually suggested.


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## irontime (Sep 6, 2002)

I'm not much of a juicer, the most I've ever done was 2ml a week and do not have much intention of going above that, not even sure if I'm going to do any in the near future 
For the first few weeks I'd do 1ml of sust a week, then go up to 2, then back down to 1. This is over an 8 week period. With small dosages like this would I have to worry about abcess?


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## ZECH (Sep 6, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by irontime *_
> I'm not much of a juicer, the most I've ever done was 2ml a week and do not have much intention of going above that, not even sure if I'm going to do any in the near future
> For the first few weeks I'd do 1ml of sust a week, then go up to 2, then back down to 1. This is over an 8 week period. With small dosages like this would I have to worry about abcess?



I don't think the dose has anything to do with it! It is the number of repeated injections in the same place that does it!


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## Mudge (Sep 6, 2002)

Dose should play an affect, because too much in an area at once is bad, however that is the same rule as not injecting into where you did last time. You may be allright with rotating between two sites, but why not go 4?

Also, I would not play with your test levels like that, stay with the same amount the whole way through, why go up down yoyo?


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## irontime (Sep 6, 2002)

I thought you were supposed to start small, go up, then down again. Or is it pointless because the dosages are so small?


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## Mudge (Sep 6, 2002)

The Proper Way to Cycle SUSTANON (has been floating around for years) One of the most misunderstood ideals when it comes to Sustanon is how to properly use it in a cycle. There is no wrong way, but there is a best way to administer proper dosages so you can fully benifit from the esters in Sustanon. 

Sustanon was developed for the primary reason of hormone replacement, and because of the mix of esters most patients only needed one shot a month to keep their hormone levels balanced. Because of this design, the bodybuilder will not recieve proper doseages at once or twice a week injections. Your blood levels will fluctuate up and down continually, which is not what you want while on a cycle. *You want stable levels* to give your body the best chance it can have to build plenty of muscle. All test is the same, but once only the ester is removed. People that say test is test are wrong unless you are assuming that the ester has already been removed. I have had plenty of different results fromt the different tests I have used, as well as I am sure you have too. The secret to making sus work correctly, is timing the esters so the blood levels do not fluctuate. I will assume that everyone knows how an ester works and why one is added to the parent testosterone. With sustanon, you have 4 esters:30mg of prop60mg of phenylprop60mg of isocaproate100mg of deconateCombined to give you 250mg. 

Now everyone knows for themselves how much test they should take due to previous cycles or no cycles at all. Lets take each ester and see how long they will stay active in the body. 30mg of prop--Prop needs to be injected at least every other day to get the full benifits of the test. I think every third day is a little too long to wait, although some people may disagree. Now lets say you are doing a prop only cycle and injecting 30mg twice a week. You can see already that is a waste of gear. If you inject 30mg of prop twice a week you are totally wasting your time. You will NOT grow off of this, so you can basically take sus and knock it down to 220mg an amp if you are injecting once or twice a week. 60 mg of phenylprop--Phenylprop is not that much different than prop. You can get away with injecting the phenylprop ester every third day. Anyone that has taken nandrolone with a phenylprop ester knows that it is shorter acting and must be injected twice a week (for example, getwoods powder). If injected twice a week, then lets even cushion the amount, you will have all 120 mg in one week. To recap, so far this is what you get the first week---180 mg of test in your system. If you ask me that was a waste of two amps. That is barely enough to supress the axis, and that is about all you will have happen if you inject 180mg of test per week. Now lets look at the longer acting esters in sus. 60mg of Isocaproate--Isocaproate will give you a duration of about a week before it is let go. This is not bad, but at 60 mg you are still not getting enough test to make it worth the time. 100mg of Deconate--Here is the daddy of the four esters. This is the same ester that is used in Decca-Durabolin. The decanoate ester should really average out at 2 weeks, but has been said to last up to 3.This ester was added at a 100mg dose to balance out the quicker acting esters used in sustanon. If we review one more time, we can see roughly how much test we will have in our body per week when we use sus, and hopefully you can see it is very low. You can pretty much take out the prop and phenylprop until about week 3 or 4, because once the other esters release the test and it gets time to build up in the system, the prop and phenylprop is useless. Not until around week six are you going to get your test levels high enough to do any good, and if you are on a 10 week cycle and start tapering week 8, then your test have been only relatively high for about 2-3 weeks. 

Call me crazy, but that is not at all what I want in a cycle. Every test cycle should be started high to hit those receptors hard, and I dont even taper at the end (but that is a different story). The numbers that someone and I worked on basically show that your test levels will never at one time be stable for more that a couple of weeks. Why do you think that people say they have less bloat on sus and less sides. There is so little of the short acting test in your system at one time that it is impossible to get any bloat or side effects at all. So you ask, well what is the best way to take sus then? 

First I would answer dont buy it. If you really want to use a 4 blend test then buy some of the old omna (not the new ones), they have more shorter acting tests in them and the blood levels will stay more equal. People seem to forget about the esters and think they are injecting all of 1750mg each week and getting every mg of it. Trust me folks, I am not talking about injecting 7 amps a week for 10 weeks, I am suggesting injecting an amp a day for 3 weeks, and letting the esters do thier work after that. When you crunch the numbers, for the first two weeks you are really only getting the prop, phenylprop, and a little of the isocaproate. Maybe about 700-750 mg for the first two weeks, and for weeks after that when all of the isocaproate and deconate kick in you will stay aroung 600-800mg for weeks following the first couple. You have a perfect taper, if you are into that, and stable test levels. If you go to eod, it will vary a bit, but not enough to really make too much of a difference. 

Start off the cycle with 5 weeks of dbol while using the sus, and when you are done with the sustanon, then immediately start injecting two anabolics like eq and decca, or decca and primo/winny. This is a cycle that a lot of the pros are using called front end loading with an anabolic taper. I guinea pigged this idea when someone and I were discussing it many months back, and damn it was a really good cycle. Not as good as 1000mg of aratest a week, but still a pretty good cycle. I have cycled sus/omna both ways, and trained relatively the same with the same kind of diet. The difference in the two cycles were like night and day, about a 15-17 pound difference, and two amps of omna a week was my first cycle too. You know, the one you are supposed to grow the most off of because of the virgin receptors. So test may be test, but you will not get the same results from every ester out there if you dont know how to time them. If you are thinking of a sus/omna cycle, give this a try. I promise you will not be disappointed. 

< I don't know who wrote this >


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## ZECH (Sep 6, 2002)

Good post Mudge but complicated! Here is my simple take from reading lots of posts regarding pyramiding and lots of people disagree on this but I agree with this.......

If you start small, work your way up and then work down in dosage, You are only at a high level to build max muscle a very short time! I think it has been proven with steriods, even with very low dosage, it affects your natural test levels enough to limit it almost nill! So why not take the highest dosage you are going to take right away and stay there until your done with the cycle. Then work on getting your natural levels back as quick as possible! Your test levels don't know 100mg vs 10mg! I think you get better results this way!


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## BUSTINOUT (Sep 6, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> Dose should play an affect, because too much in an area at once is bad, however that is the same rule as not injecting into where you did last time. You may be allright with rotating between two sites, but why not go 4?
> 
> Also, I would not play with your test levels like that, stay with the same amount the whole way through, why go up down yoyo?



Don't get dose confused with volume.  Two totally different things.


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## Mudge (Sep 6, 2002)

Not only that but then at the end of your cycle your spending time in depressed test state, so keep the blood levels the same the whole way through for a steady blood level that slowly degrades over time as your natural test is lessened.

I've seen something on another board that shows that sustanon is good for once a week injections and left at that.


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## ZECH (Sep 6, 2002)

So I'm taking it you agree with my statement?


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## Mudge (Sep 6, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by BUSTINOUT *_
> 
> 
> Don't get dose confused with volume.  Two totally different things.



Sure, if were talking 300mg/ml Deca vs 150 then yes its different, so more specifically there are recommendations on how much you should inject into a bodypart at any one time, but the more rotation the better since the oil will be allowed to leave the muscle over time instead of building up which causes a problem.


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## Mudge (Sep 6, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> So I'm taking it you agree with my statement?



For the most part, playing with levels = bad. I do not agree that the body doesn't know the difference between 100mg and 10mg, the body will not totally shut down test I believe it just keeps the levels steady, I don't think for example that 10mg anavar daily will completely shut down test, I have seen no evidence of that, that it will effect but not destroy test levels. I do believe though that going from 250 to 500 and then back down to 250 during your week(s) your living in a suppressed state because you were using more previously causing the body to react to that heightened level, stick with the cycle the full way through and then recover AFTER not some believe that your doing yourself a favor in the middle by operating with lower doses, do it get it over with and recover...


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## Mudge (Sep 6, 2002)

You could look into front loading, or just orals to get your cycle going in the first 2-5 weeks. Seems alot of national level guys front load, so there must be something to it.


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## irontime (Sep 9, 2002)

Wow, this is a hell of a lot more than i expected, thanx guys. This is great info.

I have read up on Sust in an anabolic review guide and has a wide variety of usages. It states that it can be used as high as 1000mg a week down to 125mg a week, depends on the user and what he is after.  When I do them again I will probably keep them low as I'm not ready to go into the higher levels yet. (hell most people will argue that I shouldn't be using them at all now) The small dosage just helps to give my body a quick kick into the next level of growth, and that's all I'm really going for now.


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## Mudge (Sep 9, 2002)

250-500 mg for someone who hasn't used it alot/before, 125mg would be pretty darn low, 1g though, ridiculous unless its your 5th cycle or something.


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## Trap-isaurus (Sep 22, 2002)

I have heard that alot of bodybuilders use winny as a site injection steroid to increase size in a particular muscle, kinda off topic and throwing it in late I know but what the hell.


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## Mudge (Sep 22, 2002)

Some people believe that stretching the facia by site injection helps (synthol for example), as for Winny I'm not sure although I've heard of some that supposedly do work localized.


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## cornfed (Oct 1, 2002)

IT, I say go for the quad or Tri.  Most comfortable and accessable IMO.  It won't show unless you screw up and cause a bruise or pooling.  Lower, outer head of the tris is the best.  IMHO.  Great pump.  And they say that volumizing by creatine increases strength!!! LOL   Try a cc of oil!


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