# I hate biceps training!



## the_menace (Jun 24, 2002)

This is kind of weird but it seems like most of the people like to train their biceps and I'm exactly the opposite.  I hate doing them but it doesn't mean that I don't train them.  Its just that I'm not getting enough pump whenever I do them.  Any advice to make biceps training more enjoyable or at least give me a pump.
Thanks ya'll.

My routine by the way just in case.
5 x 8 Alternate DB curls
5 x 8 Cable curls
3 x 8 Barbell curls
3 x 8 Reverse barbell curls


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## quakin (Jun 24, 2002)

Holy crap! Waaayyyyyy too many sets and exercises for the bicep.

Try 4 or 5 sets maximum. Try training biceps after back too if you're not already. If you're training your back hard you should already have a really good pump going in the forearms and biceps... especially if you're doing heavy deadlifts.  A few sets of curls after this should make them feel like they'll pop.

For what it's worth, I used to do 3 exercise with 3 sets each once a week and they didn't grow much at all. Now I do 2 exercises with 2 sets each or a superset (I change the exercises from week to week) after I train my back and they're really starting to grow. The bicep is a very easy muscle to overtrain.


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## Robboe (Jun 24, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by the_menace *_
> This is kind of weird but it seems like most of the people like to train their biceps and I'm exactly the opposite.  I hate doing them



Me too.

P.s. Your routine is awful.


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## ians (Jun 24, 2002)

No wonder you hate training Bi's...... if i had do all that, i wouldnt like doing them either !!! WAY 2 MUCH !!!

As quakin said - try doing Bi's after back and only do 2 exercises !!

Try this - train Back then do:-

Barbell Curls - 3 x 6
21's Cable Curls - 3 x 21

The 21's should give you a really good pump !!


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## Fade (Jun 24, 2002)

That is way too much.

Deff do barbell first and heavy. Then one of the other exercises. Alt dumbell curls, preacher curls, etc...


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## the_menace (Jun 24, 2002)

I do my biceps with my legs so I can blast them real good and I do my back with delts.  So you guys are saying that back and biceps is a good pair to hit biceps?  What do you guys suggest if I stick with my current biceps/legs split?


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## Fade (Jun 24, 2002)

You have enough energy to do biceps after legs?

I don't like doing biceps with back. It's personal pref really.

Do about 6 sets for biceps.


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## gopro (Jun 24, 2002)

You can keep biceps with legs if you so desire, but you MUST do less for your biceps. You are overtraining them and they will never grow on that routine unless you are on steroids! 

Cut your routine down to 6 sets at THE MOST (I do 4)...either 3 exercises at 2 sets each or 2 exercises at 3 sets each. Make sure your form is excellent and use a variety of reps...say 2 sets at 6-8, 2 sets at 8-12, and 2 sets at 12-15.

By the way...are you training legs or bis first?


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## the_menace (Jun 24, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> By the way...are you training legs or bis first?



I do my biceps first then legs.  'Cause I get dizzy when I finish my legs so I do biceps the first thing.  Legs is a pain!

OK.  I guess I have to cut down my sets to 6 sets, 7 at the most.


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## Fade (Jun 24, 2002)

Do the larger muscles first.

List your weekly workout sched.


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## Robboe (Jun 24, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Fade99 *_
> Do the larger muscles first.
> 
> List your weekly workout sched.



Actually, i agree with him doing biceps first in this case.

Fatigued biceps won't adversely effect his leg training (except maybe grip if he does SLDL's) and a bicep workout doesn't really wear you out enough to effect leg training. leg training before biceps training, however, would definately = affected biceps training. You'd be too fucked to have a "proper" biceps session.


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## gopro (Jun 24, 2002)

Well, aside from the "argument" of which "should" be trained first, I just asked the question b/c he mentioned he was having trouble getting a pump. If he were doing legs first, it would be very hard to get a good bi pump as so much blood would be collected in the legs. The body would have a hard time getting that blood back up to the bis so fast.


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## Fade (Jun 24, 2002)

I'd still pick another day to do biceps.


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## Scotty the Body (Jun 24, 2002)

Whats the rest of your week like, list your weekly schedual.


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## LAM (Jun 24, 2002)

training biceps is boring !

ditto to everyone else regarding the volume...


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## Robboe (Jun 24, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Fade99 *_
> I'd still pick another day to do biceps.



I do them on the 8th day of the week.


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## the_menace (Jun 24, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Scotty the Body *_
> Whats the rest of your week like, list your weekly schedual.



Tuesday - Delts, Back, Abs (x 50)
Thursday - Chest, Triceps, Abs (x 50)
Saturday - Biceps, Legs, Abs (x 50)
Sunday - Sometimes off or cycle repeats

I work-out at nights between 6 to 8.

And ya, the legs training is pretty intense and all my energy is down once I finish it.


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## the_menace (Jun 24, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> 
> I do them on the 8th day of the week.



There is no such thing as 8th day


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## Mudge (Jun 24, 2002)

After back, currently I am doing:

3-4 sets standing barbell curls
1-2 sets of hammer or concentration curls (any dumbell movement I feel like for the day)

By the time I finish I'm pretty well slaughtered from back, works for me.


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## Robboe (Jun 24, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by the_menace *_
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as 8th day



Yeah, just like there's no such thing as biceps training for me...


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## robbm (Jun 24, 2002)

Mudge

Is that your Camaro in your signature???  Give me some details man.  I am currently building a 68 SS!!

Robb

PS.  If it's not yours, at least you've got good taste in cars.


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## Mudge (Jun 24, 2002)

Frig, no its not, but 67/68 has been my dream forever. I currently own a 94 Z28, hope to sell it in awhile and get a 68 to build up. I did own a 69 Firebird 400/400 though.

I like the 94, but I LOVE a 68. Not sure on powerplant, but would like to stick a 6 speed in it for sure, fix the front and rear suspension (stock sucks ass), and then get the rest going.


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## quakin (Jun 24, 2002)

> Tuesday - Delts, Back, Abs (x 50)
> Thursday - Chest, Triceps, Abs (x 50)
> Saturday - Biceps, Legs, Abs (x 50)
> Sunday - Sometimes off or cycle repeats



Please tell me the x50 doesn't mean 50 sets.


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## gopro (Jun 24, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> 
> Yeah, just like there's no such thing as biceps training for me...



TCD does not need to do biceps...his are already enormous! He is very genetically gifted. He actually does not train at all! He only eats candy, and sleeps 1 hour each night! He avoids glutamine like the plague, as he feels glutamine was invented by an evil wizard that wishes to make us shrink while taking all of our money.

...and yet TCD still grows bigger by the day!


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## Mudge (Jun 24, 2002)

Its a cruel and unfair world isn't it...


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## kuso (Jun 24, 2002)

I do three sets for bi`s after back and it kills em.....anything more is going backwards for me.


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## Neil (Jun 24, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> 
> 
> TCD does not need to do biceps...his are already enormous! He is very genetically gifted. He actually does not train at all! He only eats candy, and sleeps 1 hour each night! He avoids glutamine like the plague, as he feels glutamine was invented by an evil wizard that wishes to make us shrink while taking all of our money.
> ...



LMAO!!!!

To get back on topic I do 2 sets of bb curls right after back. I do my first set heavy, failing at around 4 reps and my second failing around 8 reps.


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## the_menace (Jun 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by quakin *_
> 
> 
> Please tell me the x50 doesn't mean 50 sets.



No..no!  That means 50 reps.





> TCD does not need to do biceps...his are already enormous! He is very genetically gifted. He actually does not train at all! He only eats candy, and sleeps 1 hour each night! He avoids glutamine like the plague, as he feels glutamine was invented by an evil wizard that wishes to make us shrink while taking all of our money.



LOL.  I bet his mouth is bigger than his biceps


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## Robboe (Jun 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> 
> 
> TCD does not need to do biceps...his are already enormous! He is very genetically gifted. He actually does not train at all! He only eats candy, and sleeps 1 hour each night! He avoids glutamine like the plague, as he feels glutamine was invented by an evil wizard that wishes to make us shrink while taking all of our money.
> ...




Wow!

Are you sure we don't know each other?


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## gopro (Jun 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## TJohn (Jun 25, 2002)

I agree with everyone here that that is too much. I train my bi's after my back so they've alread had a good beatin' !! I do 2 different exercies for bi's that's it.

TJohn


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## Robboe (Jun 25, 2002)

If it matters any, i dropped direct shoulder work for a while starting today, save for 1-2 sets of side laterals.


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## kuso (Jun 25, 2002)

I did the same thing about 3 weeks ago.....but go with 3 sets of laterals


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## Robboe (Jun 25, 2002)

cool.

How is it working out thus far?


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## kuso (Jun 25, 2002)

Well, as I said, it`s only been three weeks but I really like it.

It`s funny, I know you can`t tell how well it`s working from DOMS, but I never really had any when I was doing 8 or 9 sets for shoulders......now just three sets and I`m in pain for a couple of days 

And, it`s A LOT easier on my joints!!! Which is great.

I`m quite happy thus far


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## Neil (Jun 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> If it matters any, i dropped direct shoulder work for a while starting today, save for 1-2 sets of side laterals.



I did the same thing a couple weeks ago and my pressing poundages have gone way up. I think the chest moves hit my shoulders hard and they may have been slightly overtrained when I was doing direct shoulder work and that's why all my chest lifts went up.l


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## mad_mike (Jun 25, 2002)

I agree with everyone else about you stop doing so many sets for your biceps but also if you are still worried about not getting a good pump, try increasing the weight you are lifting.


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## Mudge (Jun 25, 2002)

Bench really hits my shoulders and triceps the more I pay attention to it, most especially my front delts it seems. I dropped my dumbell presses for shoulders now to 2 sets from 3, however I raised laterals and rears to 3 sets each, not sure if I will curtail that but yesterday was definately a day in hell for my shoulders, I felt it for a good couple hours - today I dont feel it much though, other than that slight fatigue feeling.


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## gopro (Jun 25, 2002)

Jeez...at this pace nobody will be even training anymore, LOL.


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## Showdown (Jun 25, 2002)

You guys are all missing the boat.  The secret to great arms are to do bis and tris together, finishing up with forarms after everything is said and done.  Incredible pump and massive gains, not to mention one of the most important muscle groups that ties in symetry (not to mention one of the most obviously seen-by-the-general-public muscles).

You can't do any stage poses without utilizing an arm pose.

I ran into an article by Charles Poliquin on 7 tips for massive arms which I thought was great. Here is Showdown's condensed version of the article:

Tip #1 
Don't train biceps with back and triceps with chest. Poliquin's theory is that there is a lot of residual fatigue in the elbow flexors from the heavy sets used with other large muscle groups. Set aside a day just for arms.

Tip #2
Train your arms using the double station system. Basically put, you're supersetting biceps and triceps. Extending rest periods between sets is always recommended when exercising agonist with antagonist muscle groups.

Tip #3
To gain arm strength, pause between reps. Pausing between reps helps offset the oxygen debt associated with sustained contractions (recommended 10-15 seconds between reps).

Tip #4
Don't neglect the forearms or the traps.

Forearm strength is directly associated with bicep and tricep strength, therefore if the forearms are strong, you can load up on weight when doing bicep/tricep mass exercises.

Train your traps. And I quote "the stability of the cervicothoracic junction is critical for optimizing the neural and vascular supply to the upper arms". In English, if you're arm muscles are big but not in proportion to deltoid and trapezius development, you can end up cutting off blood circulation or nerve endings. This will cause problems maintaining or gaining more mass.

Tip #5
Give the 6-12-25 method a try. For those not familiar, the 6-12-25 refers to the number of reps done in a triple-set with 10 second rest in-between each exercise. (6 reps first exercise, rest, 12 reps second exercise, rest, 25 reps third exercise.) Try 2-3 sets of this method with at least a two-minute rest between sets.

Tip #6
Use specific brachialis training. On every great pair of arms, you always notice great brachialis development. To work this muscle, use Scott curls (wide or narrow, low pulley, or EZ bar) hammer curls, Gaspari bar curls, and Zottmann curls.


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## gopro (Jun 25, 2002)

Charles Poliquin is a great man


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## Showdown (Jun 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Charles Poliquin is a great man



Amen.

Not only a great man, but his knowledge should be chiseled into stone.  Simple advice which can be utilized by all.


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## Mudge (Jun 25, 2002)

Some people have argued the opposite though, that you end up taking the blood from one side and moving it to the other, supposedly to mean that your robbing nutrients/growth from maximal potential.

Not really taking a side here, but I've avoided bi/tri in the same day for this reason.


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## kuso (Jun 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> Some people have argued the opposite though, that you end up taking the blood from one side and moving it to the other, supposedly to mean that your robbing nutrients/growth from maximal potential.
> 
> Not really taking a side here, but I've avoided bi/tri in the same day for this reason.



Not taking sides either, and I have tried it that way and quite like it ( but like to mix up my split every now and then ) BUT....if there is enough blood in your body for ham/quads, then I don`t think there will be a prob with bi/tri`s.


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## Mudge (Jun 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> 
> 
> BUT....if there is enough blood in your body for ham/quads



Sounds like a good argument, could be something from the 50s/60s with nothing to back it up, who knows...


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## Showdown (Jun 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> Some people have argued the opposite though, that you end up taking the blood from one side and moving it to the other, supposedly to mean that your robbing nutrients/growth from maximal potential.
> 
> Not really taking a side here, but I've avoided bi/tri in the same day for this reason.



That arguement would render the bi/back or tri/chest or tri/shoulder or leg/anything or anything/anything workout wrong.

Actually, a superset of bi/tri would make more sense with the circulatory argument, simply because it's centralized in a specific area.

But I'm open for debate here...


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## Mudge (Jun 25, 2002)

I've got not a pegleg to stand on, just something I came across once upon a time, so figured I'd mention it. Maybe I'll give it a shot sometime, right now my arms aren't the lagging parts for me though so I'm not too worried about 'em.


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## Showdown (Jun 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> I've got not a pegleg to stand on, just something I came across once upon a time, so figured I'd mention it. Maybe I'll give it a shot sometime, right now my arms aren't the lagging parts for me though so I'm not too worried about 'em.



Same here, arms are a gifted bodypart.  But I'll never ignore the possiblities of their genetics simply to avoid a symetrical position.  As I said before, try to think of one stage pose that doesn't utilize the arms.  They are just as important as legs, and probably even more important for us peoples that don't compete; simply because the arms are more exposed than any other body part.

I can't stop my arms from growing even if I neglected them.  However, I'd like to take a page from Tom Platz's book and simply state "If you got it, why not take advantage of it?"


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## LAM (Jun 25, 2002)

I never say the point in an "arm" day or any logical benefits of it...


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## Mudge (Jun 25, 2002)

I think my problem was mostly that I kept thinking to myself how small my arms were and somehow not seeing that the rest of me was lagging behind even more, it was very hard to look at myself subjectively, so I'm perfectly fine with biceps and triceps taking a "back seat", and thinking of the larger bodyparts first, at least for the moment.

Back/biceps
Chest/triceps is what I'm using now...


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## Showdown (Jun 25, 2002)

First off, Mudge: If you are going to continue to beat yourself down in front of me, I'll take advantage of that and call you the biggest pussy around!!!

A lagging bodypart warrants attention, but not at the sacrifice of strong bodyparts!  Quit trying to over-analyze your workout.  Focus on fundamentals, focus on proper diet, and utilize splits that you feel comfortable with.  Stop knocking yourself and start gathering an ego equal to someone who cares about their vessel as you do.

LAM:  Make sense if you are going to debate.


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## Mudge (Jun 25, 2002)

I wasn't trying to, just trying to notice what I'm not working hard enough, and what I'm paying too much attention too (or was). Thanks tho


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## Showdown (Jun 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> I wasn't trying to, just trying to notice what I'm not working hard enough, and what I'm paying too much attention too (or was). Thanks tho



Thanks my ass.  Start proving you're an alpha-male.  I've seen pics of you, and besides a much needed tan, you shouldn't consider yourself a small weakling.

Most of the people you'll meet on this website (or any other) are interested in one thing: reshaping their self-image into a more positive and (dare I say) aggressive person; one that knows where they are going in life and won't be held back by physical imperfections.

I've only lectured you on this twice.  But from now on, if I don't see a transition into a more confident person, I'm going to take advantage of it.  I'll spite the respect of this board to knock you down.

Be a man, knock me down first.


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## Mudge (Jun 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Showdown *_
> 
> 
> Start proving you're an alpha-male. I've seen pics of you, and besides a much needed tan, you shouldn't consider yourself a small weakling.



Dude, I'm a white guy, I was born white and unless I waste an hour a day every day, I'm going to stay that way.

I'm a mild mannered person, so I'm not out to prove anything to some dewds on the internet. Honestly though I'm not sure if I should try to take this as my Tony Little motivational speech, or as some kind of 'F U buddy'. I'm working hard in the gym to improve myself, as well as other things going on study wise.

I'm not saying I'm Tiny Tim, but without doing much of anything I can maintain somewhere over 16" arms, so 17+ isn't much to me at the moment and I've been here for so long, that it just looks like regular old me.

Thanks again for the input


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## Showdown (Jun 25, 2002)

Call me Mr. Little, except I'm not going to ask for your credit card.

You set goals, you try to accomplish them.  And life is like a box of chocolates.  Whatever.

Here's a great impression of Showdown:  "Hi, I'm Showdown.  I either like you or I don't.  For some reason I like Mudge, but if he doesn't start portraiting some confidence, I'm going to drive my ass to the Bay and kick sand in his face."

You want 19" arms?  Then make them happen.

You want bulging pecs?  Then make them happen.

You want to accomplish professional goals?  Then make them happen.

Here's the deal.  Either you do something or you don't.  I've read your posts.  You know how to do it, but you pussy out when it comes to acknowledging your own knowledge.  Be a fuqing leader and start kicking other people's ass on this board.  And start kicking other people's ass in your real life, too.  I'll guarantee that you'll be happier and more successful...


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## Neil (Jun 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Jeez...at this pace nobody will be even training anymore, LOL.




I guess it kinda looks that way.
It just seems like lately the less I do the bigger and stronger I get.


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## Mudge (Jun 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Showdown *_
> Here's the deal. Either you do something or you don't. I've read your posts. You know how to do it, but you pussy out when it comes to acknowledging your own knowledge.



This is a comeback for me, I have many hobbies, road racing, engine building, reading, guitar, and I have to keep up with the computer world per my job. Right now this is the hobby that has priority, and this board is a big part of that.

All I said basically was my symetry was poor, I dont know how it got to this.


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## Showdown (Jun 25, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> All I said basically was my symetry was poor, I dont know how it got to this.



I'm not trying to be the next Chuck Manson, I'm just saying I'd like to see you give yourself more credit.  I don't like self-bashing, and I don't see a need for you to do it.

Take care, brother.


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## Robboe (Jun 26, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Showdown *_
> A lagging bodypart warrants attention,



Maybe the bodypart is lagging from _too much_ attention ie localised overtraining.


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