# what determines over-training and is it really that bad?



## BUCKY (Jul 19, 2012)

On off day, don't you feel less "pumped"? I'd assume "over-training" will make anyone ripped? I think I read an article somewhere that Schwarzenegger never took a day off. He was dedicated. Is training a muscle group more than twice a week considered over training? Let's say I do my deadlift workout twice a week. Is this ok? I read that for beginners it is. Would 3 times a week be more for seasoned bodybuilders?


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jul 19, 2012)

BUCKY said:


> On off day, don't you feel less "pumped"? I'd assume "over-training" will make anyone ripped? I think I read an article somewhere that Schwarzenegger never took a day off. He was dedicated. Is training a muscle group more than twice a week considered over training? Let's say I do my deadlift workout twice a week. Is this ok? I read that for beginners it is. Would 3 times a week be more for seasoned bodybuilders?



Arnold took days off.  He was dedicated and smart enough to know when to train and not.  You didn't read enough. 

Most seasoned lifters will deadlift about once a week.  

The goal is to stiumlate muscle growth not anniliate it. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## dirtbiker666 (Jul 19, 2012)

Over training is a term that is over used and frankly I think the lazy use it. I used to think you could over train and I thought it was easy too. After going on a deployment and being up long hours and working hard labor and still lifting my ass of 7 days a week. I realized it's hard to over train. Is it possible ? YES...With proper sleep and nutrition its almost impossible.  Not only that I think in order to become successful in anything especially bodybuilding you need to reach and break your limit. See how far it takes you or how long it takes for you to actually over train. What if all these years your thought you were training hard and come to find out after you have only been giving it 60 % the whole time based off a mental limitation resulting in less gain per year. All I am getting at is people read to far into things and honestly need to learn there body. I never new what it meant when experienced lifters would tell me that . But what I do know now is how much I need to eat when the best time to eat before I lift is what exercises are best to grow and to get stronger and when not do something by listening to my body. Hell I even lift when I am sick and it has never affected me. 

Anyway to answer your question I do most body parts twice a week but I alter my volume up. And deadlifts twice a week no. Its a compound lift which you can do compound lifts twice in a week but it all depends on volume.


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## allskillz20 (Jul 19, 2012)

Overtraining is just an excuse for undereating..


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## CaptainNapalm (Jul 19, 2012)

Overtraining is very real.  In 2006 I decided I wanted to get bigger and hit 185 lbs, I was 165 at the time. Coupled with a solid diet, I started with intelligently designed workouts and was in the gym 4 times weekly, 1-2 hrs per session. After 6 weeks I felt I was getting mediocre results so I figured I would train more. I upped my calories and protein intake and started training 5 times a week, then after two months I was only taking one rest day a week.  No matter how much I varied my workouts I was still feeling off, my gains came to a hault and I basically I fried my CNS. Reluctantly, I took a week off and then trained hard 3 times a week. After 3 moths I exploded, gained double what I gained in the 5 months prior and was hovering at close to 190 lbs not to mention got much stronger.  Based on that experience I now train 3-4 times a week and take 1-2 weeks off every 8-12 weeks. This i truly believe has allowed me to get big and strong. So this is what's right for me and it's a very individual thing. I know guys (not on gear) who can do 5 days a week long term with no problems.


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## LAM (Jul 19, 2012)

technically over-training is not allowing for enough CNS recovery sufficiently in-between bouts of high intensity exercise.  the higher the intensity of exercise the longer it takes the CNS to recovery.  eventually muscles can not contract efficiently and there is a loss of strength and/or performance in sport.

with low intensity exercise you can train more frequently.  say for example you can squat 200lbs as a 1RM.  using a working weight of 50lbs would allow the person to squat daily as the CNS is not taxed heavily at all with such a light load compared to the potential.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jul 20, 2012)

allskillz20 said:


> Overtraining is just an excuse for undereating..



Thanks for flaunting your ignorance.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jul 20, 2012)

dirtbiker666 said:


> Over training is a term that is over used and frankly I think the lazy use it. I used to think you could over train and I thought it was easy too. After going on a deployment and being up long hours and working hard labor and still lifting my ass of 7 days a week. I realized it's hard to over train.



Evidenlty, you weren't training that hard.  You just thought you were. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## Cork (Jul 20, 2012)

Your CNS can adapt and improve just like any muscle.  Over reaching is for more of an issue than over training.


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## Cork (Jul 20, 2012)

CaptainNapalm said:


> Overtraining is very real.  In 2006 I decided I wanted to get bigger and hit 185 lbs, I was 165 at the time. Coupled with a solid diet, I started with intelligently designed workouts and was in the gym 4 times weekly, 1-2 hrs per session. After 6 weeks I felt I was getting mediocre results so I figured I would train more. I upped my calories and protein intake and started training 5 times a week, then after two months I was only taking one rest day a week.  No matter how much I varied my workouts I was still feeling off, my gains came to a hault and I basically I fried my CNS. Reluctantly, I took a week off and then trained hard 3 times a week. After 3 moths I exploded, gained double what I gained in the 5 months prior and was hovering at close to 190 lbs not to mention got much stronger.  Based on that experience I now train 3-4 times a week and take 1-2 weeks off every 8-12 weeks. This i truly believe has allowed me to get big and strong. So this is what's right for me and it's a very individual thing. I know guys (not on gear) who can do 5 days a week long term with no problems.



This doesn't necessarily mean you were over training.  You just found out that high volume doesn't work for you.  You are saying you stopped training like that because you weren't getting the results you wanted, not because of the symptoms of over training.

Also, even from my own experience, you have to drastically alter your workout style when you switch to higher volume.  You can't take the same workouts and intensity from a 4 day split and just assume that that same kind of work can be done on 2 extra days.  For example, 531 is a 3-4 day split.  You can't just all of a sudden do 531 6 days a week and expect to see faster results.


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## tinyshrek (Jul 20, 2012)

When I was in the infantry we definently over trained BUT your body eventually becomes accustomed to it and conditions itself. The problem is when outside supplements come into play it can cause adrenal fatigue and burn your CNS out... This is why excessive caffeine use especially pre workouts are horrible for you...


- SHREK


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## LAM (Jul 20, 2012)

Cork said:


> Your CNS can adapt and improve just like any muscle.  Over reaching is for more of an issue than over training.



CNS adaption only goes so far for those that train natural.  those on gear have almost zero fear of over-traning due to the that androgens act on the CNS and AR receptors.


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## tinyshrek (Jul 20, 2012)

Natural or not your CNS will adapt. A lot of people think they are overtraining when they actually aren't they are just out of shape and have no cardiovascular conditioning


- SHREK


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## dirtbiker666 (Jul 20, 2012)

tinyshrek said:


> Natural or not your CNS will adapt. A lot of people think they are overtraining when they actually aren't they are just out of shape and have no cardiovascular conditioning
> 
> 
> - SHREK



Its true your body is so good at adapting to things over training is so uncommon please stop with the blasphemy everyone. Post your pictures up and I will tell you if your over training .


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## Merkaba (Jul 20, 2012)

Overtraining = underrecovery


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## BUCKY (Jul 21, 2012)

These are some great info. and opinions guys. Like I said, my chest is well developed in high school and now. All I did was bench press and it was the "lazy man's workout". You lay there and lift. I did it daily. I felt stronger and looked pumped. When people say they "plateaued" and can't lift any more or is stuck with the same weight they were lifting a few months earlier, well that means you've reached your max. How heavy can you go exactly? It has to stop somewhere. I think people mistake this for plateau when it's really not. They've just maxed out to their limit.


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## BUCKY (Jul 21, 2012)

1-2 hours is a bit long. I used to do that in high school but now I am in the "real world" I do ok with just under 1 hour. When on cycle I prefer to workout daily to make good use of the "gear". When off cycle I can take a day or two off, no problem.



CaptainNapalm said:


> Overtraining is very real.  In 2006 I decided I wanted to get bigger and hit 185 lbs, I was 165 at the time. Coupled with a solid diet, I started with intelligently designed workouts and was in the gym 4 times weekly, 1-2 hrs per session. After 6 weeks I felt I was getting mediocre results so I figured I would train more. I upped my calories and protein intake and started training 5 times a week, then after two months I was only taking one rest day a week.  No matter how much I varied my workouts I was still feeling off, my gains came to a hault and I basically I fried my CNS. Reluctantly, I took a week off and then trained hard 3 times a week. After 3 moths I exploded, gained double what I gained in the 5 months prior and was hovering at close to 190 lbs not to mention got much stronger.  Based on that experience I now train 3-4 times a week and take 1-2 weeks off every 8-12 weeks. This i truly believe has allowed me to get big and strong. So this is what's right for me and it's a very individual thing. I know guys (not on gear) who can do 5 days a week long term with no problems.


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## colochine (Jul 21, 2012)

BUCKY said:


> 1-2 hours is a bit long. I used to do that in high school but now I am in the "real world" I do ok with just under 1 hour. When on cycle I prefer to workout daily to make good use of the "gear". When off cycle I can take a day or two off, no problem.



30 minute circuit workout is where it's st if you really want to get big.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jul 21, 2012)

dirtbiker666 said:


> Its true your body is so good at adapting to things over training is so uncommon please stop with the blasphemy everyone. Post your pictures up and I will tell you if your over training .



Spoken like a true moron.

Kenny Croxdale


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## tinyshrek (Jul 21, 2012)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> Spoken like a true moron.
> 
> Kenny Croxdale



Exactly! Thanks Kenny. Morons I swear... When I was in Iraq I was on no gear whatsoever. I ran 3-5 miles 3-4 times a week. But there were periods where I trained in the gym over a month in a row with no problems at all recovering and made gains the entire time. My bet is your a lazy ass dirt biker and couldn't run a couple miles if his life depended on it. Your body conditions itself it's mind over matter. Sure your gonna feel tired and sore some days and not want to get outa bed but EVENTUALLY your body will adapt. My opinion is most people UNDERTRAIN and use overtraining a a way of pussing out of training hard(dirt biker)


- SHREK


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jul 22, 2012)

tinyshrek said:


> Exactly! Thanks Kenny. Morons I swear... When I was in Iraq I was on no gear whatsoever. I ran 3-5 miles 3-4 times a week. But there were periods where I trained in the gym over a month in a row with no problems at all recovering and made gains the entire time. My bet is your a lazy ass dirt biker and couldn't run a couple miles if his life depended on it. Your body conditions itself it's mind over matter. Sure your gonna feel tired and sore some days and not want to get outa bed but EVENTUALLY your body will adapt. My opinion is most people UNDERTRAIN and use overtraining a a way of pussing out of training hard(dirt biker)
> 
> 
> - SHREK



Endurance training is a form of over training.  You definitely become better at running at the expense of becoming weaker and lose muscle mass, as well. 

Research has demonstrated endurance is contraindicated for strength athletes.  Also, individuals who want to "grow some muscle" need to limit there endurance training. 

On the other hand, strength training has been shown to increase an endurance athlete's performance. 

There is an inverse relationship between strength and endurance.  As one goes up the other goes down.  

If "your body adapts" and there is NO overtraining, NFL players would play 178 a season as NBA basketball player do.  Instead they play 16 games a season. 

Evidenlty, NFL "dirt bags bikers" can run a couple of miles.  

So according to your logic, NFL players just "puss out."   

Glad you brought that to our attention.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## tinyshrek (Jul 22, 2012)

Touché 


- SHREK


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## tinyshrek (Jul 22, 2012)

Nba players play 82 not 178. I mean MLB plays 162? But u have to be extremely cardiovascular fit to play football or basketball so that is horrible logic as well. With sufficient amount of food you can still put on muscle with cardio included. As you can see with Crossfit. Numerous people put on muscle wit cardio included. There is a huge difference between cardiovascular training and ENDURANCE training buddy 


- SHREK


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jul 22, 2012)

tinyshrek said:


> Nba players play 82 not 178. I mean MLB plays 162?



Yes, that's what I meant. 



tinyshrek said:


> But u have to be extremely cardiovascular fit to play football or basketball so that is horrible logic as well.




That is your logic, not mine.  As per you, "a lazy ass dirt biker couldn't run a couple miles if his life depended on it."

Football and basketball player would fall into you catagorized area.   So as per you, football and basketball players are "lazy ass dirt bikers"...whatever that means.  

Perhaps "we" should amend that to football players are "bad ass, lazy ass dirt bikers" ...



tinyshrek said:


> With sufficient amount of food you can still put on muscle with cardio included.



With a sufficient amount of brains to write a training program you can put on muscle.  There's a difference. 



tinyshrek said:


> As you can see with Crossfit.



Crossfit is a Metabolic Program.  That means it is great for burning fat.  

Crossfit is a good General Physical Prepardness Training. 

However, Crossfit is a very poor, ineffective method of increasing muscle mass. 

_"...workouts like P90X or Crossfit people ripped and lean, but not big. They're so metabolically demanding that mTOR shuts off, limiting protein synthesis. This is great if you want to lose weight and look lean, but bad if you want to move up a shirt size or two."_ T NATION | Getting Big Through TUT

mTOR (Mammalian Target of Rapamycin) is a major factor in increasing muscle mass.  Tripping the "mTOR trigger" creates an anabolic enviroment to grow muscle.  Protein Synthesis = Increased Muscle Mass

Training program such as Crossfit depress and/or shut down mTOR.  That means Crossfit is a catabolic program.  Muscle is depleted along with fat. 



tinyshrek said:


> Numerous people put on muscle wit cardio included.



The problem with perfoming cardio while trying to increasing muscle mass, is cardio it cuts into your recovery time.  Recover time is when you build muscle.  



tinyshrek said:


> There is a huge difference between cardiovascular training and ENDURANCE training buddy.



Cardiovascular training, as you have defined it, and endurance training both fall into the catagory of Metabolic Training.  

Great program for burning body fat and increasing cardiovascular fitness.  However, both stiffle adding muscle mass.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## hypo_glycemic (Jul 22, 2012)

Cross fit?? Please, I'm not trying to be the best at exercising!! Cross fit people should GTFO.. Sorry, I think it's a joke and most- or a lot of those people look like they are ALWAYS in a catabolic state.. Just sayn....


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## tinyshrek (Jul 22, 2012)

I don't Crossfit. I have tried it before and gained muscle and increased cardiovascular conditioning as well without gear. 


- SHREK


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## tinyshrek (Jul 22, 2012)

See this is why I love guys like Kenny they read a bunch of articles from different books and websites and try to act intelligent and it seems really cool online. But they have never practiced anything.... Have you tried Crossfit for 6-12 months and gaged results? DC? Mountaindog? HIT? Volume Training? Military conditioning? Sports conditioning? I'm guessing you probably haven't because your to concerned with reading about and posting links. I have tried everyone of those above and you know what I've learned?? THAT ANY TRAINING PROGRAM CAN BE USED TO INCREASE MUSCLE AS LONG AS THE CALORIES ARE THERE TO SUPPORT IT. Now some are better than others and that is totally based on body type and metabolism. So my friend kenny you can never speak on ABSOLUTES because there isn't one.


- SHREK


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jul 22, 2012)

tinyshrek said:


> I don't Crossfit. I have tried it before and gained muscle and increased cardiovascular conditioning as well without gear.
> 
> 
> - SHREK



If that were true, you be Big Shrek NOT Tiny Shrek.  :

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jul 22, 2012)

tinyshrek said:


> See this is why I love guys like Kenny they read a bunch of articles from different books and websites and try to act intelligent and it seems really cool online. But they have never practiced anything....



Tiny, let me translate what you said.  "Kenny, I have no idea about what you're talking about because you use big word that I don't understand."

I will make more of an effort to "dumb it down for you". 



tinyshrek said:


> Have you tried Crossfit for 6-12 months and gaged results? DC? Mountaindog? HIT? Volume Training? Military conditioning? Sports conditioning? I'm guessing you probably haven't because your to concerned with reading about and posting links.



Tiny, google me and find out.



tinyshrek said:


> I have tried everyone of those above and you know what I've learned??



Evidently, you haven't learn much. 



tinyshrek said:


> THAT ANY TRAINING PROGRAM CAN BE USED TO INCREASE MUSCLE AS LONG AS THE CALORIES ARE THERE TO SUPPORT IT.



Would that it be...but it ain't.



tinyshrek said:


> Now some are better than others and that is totally based on body type and metabolism. So my friend kenny you can never speak on ABSOLUTES because there isn't one.



Actually, there is one. 

Your are ABOSOLUTE a moron.   

Your buddy (as you stated in one of your post), Kenny



tinyshrek said:


> TINYshrek



TINYshrek, pretty much tells us all we need to know.


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## tinyshrek (Jul 22, 2012)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> If that were true, you be Big Shrek NOT Tiny Shrek.  :
> 
> Kenny Croxdale



So true... FML...  


- SHREK


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## tinyshrek (Jul 22, 2012)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> Tiny, let me translate what you said.  "Kenny, I have no idea about what you're talking about because I my brain is on deployment."
> 
> I really shouldn't use big words that you don't understand.  I will make more of an effort to "dumb it down for you".
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

The first thing i did was google ya kenny why do you think I'm having a friendly argument with ya? 


- SHREK


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jul 22, 2012)

The first thing i did was google ya kenny why do you think I'm having a friendly argument with ya? 


- SHREK[/QUOTE]

You're a liar and a moron.  Not a good combination.


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## tinyshrek (Jul 22, 2012)

Your a liar and a moron! Just because you took some classes and train people does not give you the right to talk in absolutes and say one thing works and another doesn't. PERIOD. Anyone with a lick of intellect would say that BUDDY. Science and training is forever evolving and growing so for your to say something isn't true is stupidity


- SHREK


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## tinyshrek (Jul 22, 2012)

Now if you said these were your opinions of the truth from what you have experienced and seen then that would be fine. But for you to say This is the truth period. sorry ain't buyin it BUDDY 


- SHREK


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## dirtbiker666 (Jul 22, 2012)

Exactly! Thanks Kenny. Morons I swear... When I was in Iraq I was on no  gear whatsoever. I ran 3-5 miles 3-4 times a week. But there were  periods where I trained in the gym over a month in a row with no  problems at all recovering and made gains the entire time. My bet is  your a lazy ass dirt biker and couldn't run a couple miles if his life  depended on it. Your body conditions itself it's mind over matter. Sure  your gonna feel tired and sore some days and not want to get outa bed  but EVENTUALLY your body will adapt. My opinion is most people  UNDERTRAIN and use overtraining a a way of pussing out of training  hard(dirt biker)

Anyway SHrek wtf are you talking about I have the same out look as you. And when I was over seas I trained for a month at a time no breaks and ran at least 2 miles 6 days a week. I think people under train too I don't get where you thought I was saying people over train at all


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## tinyshrek (Jul 22, 2012)

My apologies dirt biker. I was wrong and got your comment mixed up. I am sorry


- SHREK


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jul 22, 2012)

tinyshrek said:


> Your a liar and a moron! Just because you took some classes and train people does not give you the right to talk in absolutes and say one thing works and another doesn't. PERIOD. Anyone with a lick of intellect would say that BUDDY. Science and training is forever evolving and growing so for your to say something isn't true is stupidity
> 
> 
> - SHREK



Tiny, I've provided you with some information.  Now it is up to you.

Kenny Croxdale


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## dirtbiker666 (Jul 22, 2012)

tinyshrek said:


> My apologies dirt biker. I was wrong and got your comment mixed up. I am sorry
> 
> 
> - SHREK




It's all good.


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## sassy69 (Jul 22, 2012)

Merkaba said:


> Overtraining = underrecovery



This was me during my 2nd show prep in 2000. I dieted & trained from April to August for my first show, rebounded 18 lb in 6 days, then hit it again w/ a new coach whose diet really didn't work well for me (frankly too much carb, not enough cardio) - but the combination of fucking balls to the wall training w/ a lot of "reps to failure" because he was a big fan of spotted burn out sets,  bad showing at the target show because of his shitty diet and another month of still fighting to get the fat down. I finally hit a wall and was emotionally exhausted trying to train and couldn't make it thru a workout w/o breaking down & crying. I couldn't sleep for shit and just fully burnt out. 

The end result is that I actually gained another 30 lb post 2nd show and it took me nearly a year to get rid of it because of what felt like metabolic shutdown. When your body tells you to go fuck yourself is when you're overtraining.

What the OP is talking about is just really not allowing sufficient muscle recovery time. In that case it really is about underrecovery of the muscle group. True overtraining is when your body just won't let you go any further. Not only do you stall out, you're overall quality of life starts to revert because your CNS is just fucking done.


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## BUCKY (Jul 23, 2012)

don't you have to "kill" the muscle for it to grow? "Kill" meaning you have to push it to the limit even when sore. That's how I did it anyway. My pecs grew when I did it daily in high school. I was told it was wrong but these same people did not even look like they work out. It's true I look swollen. LOL. 

I find it ridiculous that most of you would suggest once or twice a week is sufficient. I thought 24 hours is enough rest time for the muscle. I guess if you wanted to take your time in getting bulk, you'd follow the procedure you all suggested. That might take you 2 years instead of 1, wouldn't you agree? The more you're at it daily, the more you will grow and get bulk and cut, maybe not stronger (sometimes just because you peaked your max, you'd think you never got stronger). Perhaps you simply maxed out?

P.S. over-training will NOT kill you!


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## Cork (Jul 23, 2012)

We could go by Fred Hatfield's knowledge and learn that it takes 72 hours for a major muscle group to recover from a balls to the wall intense workout, 48 hours to recover from a moderately intense workout, and only 12-24 hours to recover from light to moderate work.  That can be found in his book "Hardcore Bodybuilding."

Kenny, instead of bashing tinyshrek and getting off topic, can you elucidate why you think it is so easy to over train?

Sassy69 brings up clear evidence that it is possible in extreme cases.  Her over training could have simply been avoided with more food and rest in the beginning.  Obviously contest preps don't normally allow for that.  I even had the same thing happen to me for my second bodybuilding contest.  I was under rested and underfed, my hormones gave a big "fuck you", and the post contest rebound was awful.  Under rested is even a gross understatement.  The caffeine abuse was insane.  I've learned from that mistake though.

Even with my own burnout experience, I still feel strongly that normal gym goers who do not put themselves under these extreme circumstances should have no fear of over training.


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## ALBOB (Jul 24, 2012)

BUCKY said:


> P.S. over-training will NOT kill you!



It sure could.  When you reach the point of overtraining not only your Central Nervous System is ravaged, so is your imune system.  You could easily catch something as simple as a cold or flu and not have the recovery ability to get over it.  The chances of you actually dieing are slim to none but, you're definitely leaving yourself open to getting sick.  

sassy69's post hit the nail on the head, you end up moving backwards instead of forwards.  When that happens you need to back off your workouts, not increase them.


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## tinyshrek (Jul 24, 2012)

This to a certain extent happend to me when I was dieting for my show. My liver and kidneys were acting wacky I started retaining water. Went to the doc ran a bunch of test and said I had adrenal burnout. Shit like tren, Clen, ECA allowed me to push my body to far and my body crashed.... Wasn't overtraining because I would have never been able to push my nervous system that far without the extra CNS stmulation which is what my sports doc said 


- SHREK


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## BUCKY (Jul 25, 2012)

well always listen to your body as the saying goes. I just disagree with people here saying once or twice a week of training a certain muscle group is sufficient. I think for mass gainers (deadlift, squats, and bench press) 3x a week seem ok. I only do it 2x a week (deadlift). I've done it 3x a week but had to back off it (I listened to my body). In high school, I was able to bench press daily. It was easy because it was a lazy man's workout (you simply lay there and lift). Deadlift and squats you have to pace your self or you drop to the ground and sprain your back.



ALBOB said:


> It sure could.  When you reach the point of overtraining not only your Central Nervous System is ravaged, so is your imune system.  You could easily catch something as simple as a cold or flu and not have the recovery ability to get over it.  The chances of you actually dieing are slim to none but, you're definitely leaving yourself open to getting sick.
> 
> sassy69's post hit the nail on the head, you end up moving backwards instead of forwards.  When that happens you need to back off your workouts, not increase them.


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## ALBOB (Jul 25, 2012)

BUCKY said:


> well always listen to your body as the saying goes.   I just disagree with people here saying once or twice a week of training a certain muscle group is sufficient.  I think for mass gainers (deadlift, squats, and bench press) 3x a week seem ok. I only do it 2x a week (deadlift). I've done it 3x a week but had to back off it (I listened to my body). In high school, I was able to bench press daily. It was easy because it was a lazy man's workout (you simply lay there and lift). Deadlift and squats you have to pace your self or you drop to the ground and sprain your back.




But maybe for them it IS sufficient.  Mike Mentzer's High Intensity Training emphasized taking a muscle to total muscular failure and then giving it sufficient time and nutrients to recover and get stronger.  When you were in high school you had enough Testosterone and HGH running through your veins that maybe you could work a body part 3x per week and have it sufficiently recover between workouts.  At my current advanced age there's no way on Earth I could do that.  I try to get as close as I can to failure on each body part and even one time per week is almost too much for me.  Everybody's different and will have different recuperative abilities.


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## BUCKY (Jul 26, 2012)

Ok is what you are saying "less is more"? I might try and do deadlifts just once a week then. Would you say that training a muscle group once a week is sufficient? When you mentioned to "stimulate muscle growth" even with just once a week of training a muscle group, I think what you're saying is "less is more"? What's the science behind this? I have to look into it as well. The way I train is to be as sore as possible. LOL. I think it works for me but I have yet to try your suggestion of "less is more". I'm in the music recording arts and the "less is more" technique does apply when using effects and such. Also, the more tools I have in the recording studio, the less I become creative. I remember when I was just starting out and had less tools, I was creative than now. I think there is science behind "less is more". Remember that back in the old days, people did much better than anyone these days with all the tools and technology we have.



Kenny Croxdale said:


> Arnold took days off.  He was dedicated and smart enough to know when to train and not.  You didn't read enough.
> 
> Most seasoned lifters will deadlift about once a week.
> 
> ...


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## Rajahori (Jul 26, 2012)

Someone just told me that Olympic means somebody need to training watching someone really over training gathered together to competition！ Maybe this is the answer!


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## ALBOB (Jul 26, 2012)

Rajahori said:


> Someone just told me that Olympic means somebody need to training watching someone really over training gathered together to competition！ Maybe this is the answer!




I sure hope that's not the answer because I don't understand a single thing you just said.


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## BUCKY (Jul 26, 2012)

huh?



Rajahori said:


> Someone just told me that Olympic means somebody need to training watching someone really over training gathered together to competition！ Maybe this is the answer!


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## ALBOB (Jul 27, 2012)

BUCKY said:


> Ok is what you are saying "less is more"? I might try and do deadlifts just once a week then. Would you say that training a muscle group once a week is sufficient? When you mentioned to "stimulate muscle growth" even with just once a week of training a muscle group, I think what you're saying is "less is more"? What's the science behind this? I have to look into it as well. The way I train is to be as sore as possible. LOL. I think it works for me but I have yet to try your suggestion of "less is more". I'm in the music recording arts and the "less is more" technique does apply when using effects and such. Also, the more tools I have in the recording studio, the less I become creative. I remember when I was just starting out and had less tools, I was creative than now. I think there is science behind "less is more". Remember that back in the old days, people did much better than anyone these days with all the tools and technology we have.



Sorry, missed this post earlier.

I'm saying less CAN be more.  It all depends on how you train your muscles and your own personal recovery ability.  As with anything involving bodybuilding, everyone's different.  This is why keeping a log is so important.  You keep track of your training routine and, more importantly, your progress.  If you're not getting stronger, something's wrong.  

To start your research into "less is more" I highly recommend getting one of Mike Mentzer's books on High Intensity Training.  His philosophy was to work a particular muscle group to total muscular failure and then get out of the gym and give it enough time to recover and get stronger.  For some people that only takes three or four days, other people need a week, some folks need even more than a week.  Again, everybody's diferent.


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## Braveheart82 (Jul 30, 2012)

In my opinion, your level for overtraining will be different for each person. I can tell what mine is when I start getting SUPER cranky. Then I just dial it back a little and find my sweet spot. Rest IS important so take that into account. Just experiment to find what your optimal point is.


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## BUCKY (Jul 31, 2012)

if one is not getting stronger, could it be that you've reached your peak/max? Taking a week off and getting back at it usually will make anyone "sore" again instead of "used to it". Feels a bit like when you've started lifting weights for the first time, you get sore for a few days to a week. Taking a week off then gettign back at it feels like you're starting all over again. For me, 1-2 days off works. 3-4 days off is ok as well.



ALBOB said:


> Sorry, missed this post earlier.
> 
> I'm saying less CAN be more.  It all depends on how you train your muscles and your own personal recovery ability.  As with anything involving bodybuilding, everyone's different.  This is why keeping a log is so important.  You keep track of your training routine and, more importantly, your progress.  If you're not getting stronger, something's wrong.
> 
> To start your research into "less is more" I highly recommend getting one of Mike Mentzer's books on High Intensity Training.  His philosophy was to work a particular muscle group to total muscular failure and then get out of the gym and give it enough time to recover and get stronger.  For some people that only takes three or four days, other people need a week, some folks need even more than a week.  Again, everybody's diferent.


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## ALBOB (Aug 1, 2012)

You're relying far too much on DOMS as an indicator of progress, it's not.  Strength increses are an indication of progress.  As far as reaching your peak/max, there's no such thing.  Your example of taking a few days off is essentially what I'm talking about, you're allowing your muscles to fully recover from the last time you worked them.  Again, less CAN be more.


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## Cork (Aug 2, 2012)

BUCKY said:


> if one is not getting stronger, could it be that you've reached your peak/max?



Like ALBOB said, no one has ever reached their peak.


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