# I was reading the neanderthal no more articles...



## mike456 (Nov 27, 2006)

My Kneecaps point forward, not inward or outward, does this mean my femur is not rotated, and is fine? Not the weak glutes causing the knee pain?

My knee caps do buckle in though, and that is what I am trying to fix.

So stretch what? strengthen what?

Promise this is my last thread on this shit,  lol 

here is  a pic of what I mean(2nd one)


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## P-funk (Nov 27, 2006)

if your knees are buckling when you squat, walk, jump, etc....then you need to strength your glutes so that your femur can properly adduct and maintain alignment during movement.


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## mike456 (Nov 27, 2006)

P-funk said:


> if your knees are buckling when you squat, walk, jump, etc....then you need to strength your glutes so that your femur can properly adduct and maintain alignment during movement.



if I am just standing, my knees are always buckled inwards, this means something is tight, right?


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## PWGriffin (Nov 27, 2006)

is the second pic internally rotated femurs?


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## P-funk (Nov 27, 2006)

mike456 said:


> if I am just standing, my knees are always buckled inwards, this means something is tight, right?



adductors, internal rotators


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## P-funk (Nov 27, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> is the second pic internally rotated femurs?



it is adducted....it would be hard to show internally rotated using that stick figure drawing.....but, a lot of times, if you have one you have the other.  basically, the picutre is just showing a valgus force.


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## mike456 (Nov 27, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> is the second pic internally rotated femurs?



no, a pic of internally rotated femurs would show the kneecaps facing inwards, mine face straight, but they are not properly alligned, like the oppisite of bowl-legged


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## mike456 (Nov 27, 2006)

P-funk said:


> adductors, internal rotators



foam roll and stretch the inside of the leg? 

wich muscles are internal rotators and wich are external rotators (so I can go on exrx.net and find some stretches)?

thanks P


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## mike456 (Nov 27, 2006)

just did a search

internal rotators: gluteus medius, minimus, tensor fascia latae  
- I have to stretch these, or strengthen them?
http://www.realbodywork.com/learn/hip/hip.htm


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## P-funk (Nov 27, 2006)

Internal Rotators of the knee:
gracilis
sartorius
popliteus
medial gastrocnemius
semitendonosus
semimembranosus

external rotators of the knee:
lateral gastrocnemius
biceps femoris

Internal Rotators of the hip:
glute minimis and glute medius (anterior fibers)
TFL
adductor longus and adductor brevis
pectineus
medial hamstrings

External Rotators of the hip:
glute maximus
sartorius
piriformis
obturator internus
obturator externus
gemellus superior
gemellus inferior
quadratus femoris

Hip abductors
glute medius (posterior fibers)
TFL

Hip adductors
pectineus
gracilis
adductor brevis, longus and magnus
sartorius
popliteus


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## P-funk (Nov 27, 2006)

mike456 said:


> just did a search
> 
> internal rotators: gluteus medius, minimus, tensor fascia latae
> - I have to stretch these, or strengthen them?
> http://www.realbodywork.com/learn/hip/hip.htm



stetch.

but strengthen the posterior fibers of glute medius as well as the glute maximus to prevent the valgus force that is happening at your knee.

check your ankle and gastroc and knee internal rotators.


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## mike456 (Nov 27, 2006)

P-funk said:


> Internal Rotators of the knee:
> gracilis
> sartorius
> popliteus
> ...



wow thank you for that list, gonna save that 

so tight= adductors, *internal rotators of knee and/or hip*  

weak= abductors, *external rotators, again knee/and or hip?*

your the man P!

EDIT: OH SORRY DIDNT SEE YOUR POST


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## fUnc17 (Nov 27, 2006)

http://www.robertsontrainingsystems.com/articles.html

I recommend Get            Your Butt In Gear, Part I and Get            Your Butt in Gear, Part II


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## mike456 (Nov 27, 2006)

is there a name for this imbalance, so I can do some research?


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## P-funk (Nov 27, 2006)

Lower extremity Postural Distortion, aka Pronation Distortion Syndrome, is chacterized by

knee flexion, internal rotation and valgus (knock-kneed) during movement.  As well as foot pronation and knee collapsing during squatting or lunging movements.  The heel also can come off the ground during squatting movements.


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## mike456 (Nov 28, 2006)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genu_valgum


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## mike456 (Nov 28, 2006)

damn my knees are fucked up again, it was definitely caused by my stretching yesterday, must of stretched the wrong muscle... The first stretch I did, I put the inside of my foot on a high table, so that my legs looked like a right angle, I felt this in the inside of my thigh, than I did the same thing but on the outside of my foot on the table, I felt this on the outer thigh... 
wich one should I stop doing?


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## P-funk (Nov 28, 2006)

Inside of your foot on a high table?  I can't even picture what you are talking about?


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## mike456 (Nov 28, 2006)

kind of like this: http://exrx.net/Stretches/HipAdductors/MachSeatedGroin.html

but I was standing on one leg, and instead of the back of my foot on the table, I put the inner side of my foot on the table.

standing on one leg with the other leg placed on a high table, with the nside of my foot making contact with the table


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## P-funk (Nov 28, 2006)

what the hell were you trying to accomplish?

what muscles were you looking to stretch?


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## mike456 (Nov 28, 2006)

P-funk said:


> what the hell were you trying to accomplish?
> 
> what muscles were you looking to stretch?



I felt the stretch on the inside of my hip, from my knee up

Think it was the Biceps Femoris, Long Head


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## mike456 (Nov 28, 2006)

P-funk said:


> stetch.
> 
> but strengthen the posterior fibers of glute medius as well as the glute maximus to prevent the valgus force that is happening at your knee.
> 
> check your ankle and gastroc and knee internal rotators.



check there tightness?


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## P-funk (Nov 28, 2006)

yea, see if you are tight there.


As far as telling you which stretches you should be doing it is impossible since I am not there to show you how to perform them or to even know what needs to be stretched.

Did you go to the athletic trainer at your school?


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## mike456 (Nov 28, 2006)

P-funk said:


> yea, see if you are tight there.
> 
> 
> As far as telling you which stretches you should be doing it is impossible since I am not there to show you how to perform them or to even know what needs to be stretched.
> ...



wich muscles do bow-legged people have to strengthen? wouldn't those be the muscles I have to stretch?

you have to make an appointment to meet with him, and only kids that are on a school team can do so, I have never seen him in the building...


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## P-funk (Nov 28, 2006)

mike456 said:


> wich muscles do bow-legged people have to strengthen? wouldn't those be the muscles I have to stretch?
> 
> you have to make an appointment to meet with him, and only kids that are on a school team can do so, I have never seen him in the building...



Haven't we gone over this a million times?   

Look to strengthen your glutes, which abduct and externally rotate the femur and prevent the knee from going knock-kneed.


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## mike456 (Nov 28, 2006)

P-funk said:


> Haven't we gone over this a million times?
> 
> Look to strengthen your glutes, which abduct and externally rotate the femur and prevent the knee from going knock-kneed.


lol
the femur is the bone in the hip right? If I my knee caps point straight or even out allitle, how could my femur be internally rotated?


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## P-funk (Nov 28, 2006)

mike456 said:


> lol
> the femur is the bone in the hip right? If I my knee caps point straight or even out allitle, how could my femur be internally rotated?



There not, but when you move, squat, jump, run, your knees cave in....this is where the problem is.  Big deal, you have good static posture....what the fuck is that going to do for you when you play basketball?  get with the program.


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## mike456 (Nov 28, 2006)

P-funk said:


> There not, but when you move, squat, jump, run, your knees cave in....this is where the problem is.  Big deal, you have good static posture....what the fuck is that going to do for you when you play basketball?  get with the program.



my knees never cave in...

My knees point straight, I think my femur is fine, but then the lower leg just goes out, know what I mean?


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## mike456 (Nov 28, 2006)

like this, they are always the same they never buckle out or in, when I run...


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## P-funk (Nov 28, 2006)

how can you move like that if your knees don't buckle in?  Are you just walking on the insides of your feet?

I would need to see you move, walk, squat to actually get an idea what your problem is.

From the looks of that picture, you are grossly over pronating.


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## AKIRA (Nov 28, 2006)

P-funk said:


> There not, but when you move, squat, jump, run, your knees cave in....this is where the problem is.  Big deal, you have good static posture....what the fuck is that going to do for you when you play basketball?  get with the program.



  Charming to the last!

I sometimes like mike's threads due to the technical subjects.  He asks questions that newbie's would ask, which makes it the easiest to understand.


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## P-funk (Nov 28, 2006)

I have come to the conclusion that mike is a  hyochondriac.

Over the course of 9 months, he has had every single postural distortion that one can have.  Mike, stop reading books and believing that you have all this stuff.  go outside and play ball and be a kid.......please!


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## mike456 (Nov 29, 2006)

I also think mike is going crazy???

Mike just has one question, is his lordosis causing his kyphosis, or is his kyphosis causing his lordosis


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## P-funk (Nov 29, 2006)

mike456 said:


> I also think mike is going crazy???
> 
> Mike just has one question, is his lordosis causing his kyphosis, or is his kyphosis causing his lordosis



*crickets*


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## mike456 (Nov 29, 2006)

P-funk said:


> *crickets*



I deserved that, it was corny and you gave me all the info I need, thankyou


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## P-funk (Nov 29, 2006)

mike456 said:


> I deserved that, it was corny and you gave me all the info I need, thankyou



In all honesty.....

you need to:

a) stretch muscles that feel overly tight (listen to your body)
b) work on developing proper technique and movement patterns.  Even if that means body weight exercises.  You need to develop skill.
c) stick to your diet and lose weight (which will help take pressure of your knee when you jump and run in basketball and will help you recover between workouts).
d) get stronger all over.  Learn technique and build foundation strength.

You are making it a lot harder than it is and you are now stuck in this period of "paralysis by analysis".   keep is simple.


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## mike456 (Dec 4, 2006)

P-funk said:


> Internal Rotators of the knee:
> gracilis
> sartorius
> popliteus
> ...



anyone have any exercises to strengthen the internal rotators of the knee/ external rotators of the femur?

any stretches for the external rotators of the knee/internal rotators of the femur?

thanks


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