# alcohol



## Skib (Jul 31, 2003)

ok starting tomorrow i'm going on a 6-8 week cut plan just to see what results i can achieve... however, one thing i'm not willing to sacrifice is the occasional partying... so what would you say is the best thing to drink alcohol wise? i don't drink very often but i know i won't be able to go 2 months without drinking (especially with it being summer time and all)

i've heard vodka, water, bar lime would be the best... so what do some of you guys drink alcohol wise?


----------



## Jodi (Jul 31, 2003)

Distilled Alcohols are the better of choices mixed with soda water or crystal light or diet soda.


----------



## rburton (Jul 31, 2003)

A single beer or glass of wine every few days has health benefits, but if you are serious about getting cut and training, don't imbibe. Alcohol use can decrease testosterone while simultaneously increasing estrogen levels.


----------



## OceanDude (Jul 31, 2003)

Yeah, hate to say this but alcohol is basically seen as a ???poison??? to the body. Since alcohol can???t be stored every single energy metabolic activity currently ongoing must immediately stopped and put to the task of getting the alcohol out of they system. This means that any current fat burning that are ongoing must stop and the body must switch its fuel source (like throwing the car into reverse to brake rather than just downshifting to carbs or protein). If you are eating at or near the same time its double jeopardy since the body now must in fact shuttle excess fuel to fat to enable the alcohol to be metabolized. This and the previously stated fact that it adversely impacts testosterone and is a depressant and is a diuretic means you better have a really good time since its gonna cost you a lot in terms of progress. 

OK ??? so you made the decision to drink anyway. Choose your poisons and your quantities carefully and try hard to not eat too much with it. I do occasional small glass of red wine, rarely any mixed fruit juice distilled beverages and occasionally a couple very light low carb low cal beers between meals. Then you pay the price the next day in the gym ??? don???t be surprised to find your strength or water levels messed up for 2-3 days.


----------



## Skib (Jul 31, 2003)

well for a 21 year old male i'm definately pretty good with my alcohol intake

i only drink about 2-4 times a month

i don't think that's too bad for someone my age when i know 80% of my friends go out and get shit faced at least 4 times a week


----------



## OceanDude (Aug 1, 2003)

Yeah I hear you skib. No one wants to be left out of the social scene. But if you want to participate socially and "win" in a passively sneaky sort of way I'd recommend being remembered as the "nice guy" who was always volunteering to be the designated driver and buying all the guys drinks (???taking out the competition??? so to speak). You might be amazed to learn how many fit people walk around in bars with non-alcoholic beers in a frosty mug or soda water and lime in a tall glass to give the impression they are drinking. Let the dumb ones get totally wasted and see how easy it is to lucidly impress the girls at the bar when your buddies are making fools of themselves on their stuttered pickup lines, or puking in the bathroom or not being able to "meet expectation" if they finally do hook up with a hottie .  Most guys can't seem to catch on to the fact that no lady wants to be around an intoxicated obnoxious and loud jackass ??? and statistically that leaves the field wide open for the ???nice guys???. Perhaps its Machiavellian technique but its effective and more common than people imagine.


----------



## PB&J (Aug 1, 2003)

Jack and Diet coke!


----------



## Trump (Aug 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by OceanDude *_
> Yeah I hear you skib. No one wants to be left out of the social scene. But if you want to participate socially and "win" in a passively sneaky sort of way I'd recommend being remembered as the "nice guy" who was always volunteering to be the designated driver and buying all the guys drinks (???taking out the competition??? so to speak). You might be amazed to learn how many fit people walk around in bars with non-alcoholic beers in a frosty mug or soda water and lime in a tall glass to give the impression they are drinking. Let the dumb ones get totally wasted and see how easy it is to lucidly impress the girls at the bar when your buddies are making fools of themselves on their stuttered pickup lines, or puking in the bathroom or not being able to "meet expectation" if they finally do hook up with a hottie .  Most guys can't seem to catch on to the fact that no lady wants to be around an intoxicated obnoxious and loud jackass ??? and statistically that leaves the field wide open for the ???nice guys???. Perhaps its Machiavellian technique but its effective and more common than people imagine.











  You got it.


----------



## gr81 (Aug 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by rburton *_
> Alcohol use can decrease testosterone while simultaneously increasing estrogen levels.



And cortisol levels as well. Alchohol is about the worst thing you can do while bodybuilding man. There are other htings that you can do instead, pop some pills even or smoke some weed if you must, but if you want to achieve your goals you must prioritize things. Do you really want to get cut like you say or is drinking that important to you, you can't do both and be effective in your cutting plain and simple.


----------



## bigss75 (Aug 1, 2003)

vodka and diet coke


----------



## RCfootball87 (Aug 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Skib *_
> so what do some of you guys drink alcohol wise?


Skol Vodka in water.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Aug 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gr81 *_
> There are other htings that you can do instead, pop some pills even or smoke some weed if you must, but if you want to achieve your goals you must prioritize things.


I agree with GR here.  Get a few friends together, play some cards, and smoke a quarterbag.  That sure beats being designated driver.


----------



## Skib (Aug 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gr81 *_
> And cortisol levels as well. Alchohol is about the worst thing you can do while bodybuilding man. There are other htings that you can do instead, pop some pills even or smoke some weed if you must, but if you want to achieve your goals you must prioritize things. Do you really want to get cut like you say or is drinking that important to you, you can't do both and be effective in your cutting plain and simple.



i totally see what you're saying and completely understand

i really want to take this meal plan seriously and if it means only drinking even once or twice a month than that's what i'll do... and i'll keep the alcohol to a minimum... but for me to completely cut out alcohol for the next 2 months i think would be impossible...

unfortunately i already smoke enough weed as it is... i guess it's my alcohol substitute a lot of the time... dunno bout the pills though... those will definately hurt your body 100 times more than alcohol will... well your brain anyways


----------



## dymas (Aug 2, 2003)

> i really want to take this meal plan seriously and if it means only drinking even once or twice a month than that's what i'll do... and i'll keep the alcohol to a minimum... but for me to completely cut out alcohol for the next 2 months i think would be impossible...



  

That's good Skib! You just about nailed it there...sticking to a diet is next to impossible if you commit to it half-assed and end up cheating big time. 

I think it's much better to take a balanced approach and follow a diet that is realistic for your life. Seeing that alcohol is bad is great, but being honest enough to admit your lifestyle makes it hard to elimate and finding a balance between to two is going to give you the best results IMHO!


----------



## Jodi (Aug 2, 2003)

> There are other htings that you can do instead, pop some pills even or smoke some weed if you must, but if you want to achieve your goals you must prioritize things


This possibly the worst advice I have ever seen.  

BB is a lifestyle not a fucking DIET!!  Your health should be the number one concern, not how ripped or lean you are.  This suggestion of smoking and popping pills is not the ways of a healthy lifestle.

Having alcohol will only stop your fat loss for about 12 hours but it won't harm you in moderations like the above suggestion.


----------



## OceanDude (Aug 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> This possibly the worst advice I have ever seen.
> 
> BB is a lifestyle not a ... DIET!!  Your health should be the number one concern, not how ripped or lean you are.  This suggestion of smoking and popping pills is not the ways of a healthy lifestle.
> ...



I like your spunk!


----------



## RCfootball87 (Aug 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Having alcohol will only stop your fat loss for about 12 hours but it won't harm you in moderations like the above suggestion.


I don't agree with the pill advice, but weed isn't THAT bad.  I don't think there's anyone here who has never smoked weed before.  It shouldn't even be illegal, but don't get me started.


----------



## dymas (Aug 2, 2003)

> but weed isn't THAT bad


you've got to be kidding me?! If you mean marijuana isn't as bad as smoking crack than ya you might have a point  

Marijuana has the same cancer-causing crap in it that tobacco smoke. It might even be worse since when you smoke marijuana you hold the smoke in your lungs for longer. That sticks more tar in your lungs. In addition most joints are smoked all the way to the last bit (roach) and they aren't filtered like a cig.

UCLA did a study...this is copy of it I was too lazy to dig around to find the original printing.

http://www.drugs.indiana.edu/druginfo/tashkin-marijuana.html

a few highlights from the study:



> The tar phase of marijuana smoke, as already noted, contains many of the same carcinogenic compounds contained in tobacco smoke, induding nitrosamines, reactive aldehydes, and up to a 50 percent higher concentration of carcinogenic polycydic hydrocarbons, induding benz[a]pyrene (Hoffmann et al. 1975). Benz[a]pyrene, which has recently been shown to promote mutations in the p53 oncogene (Denissenko et al. 1996), is believed to play an important role in human cancer.





> One marijuana cigarette was shown by Wu and colleagues (1988) to deposit four times as much tar in the lung as a single filtered tobacco cigarette of approximately the same weight. The higher content of carcinogenic polycyclic hydrocarbons in marijuana tar and the greater deposition of marijuana tar in the lung act together to amplify exposure of the marijuana smoker to the carcinogens in the tar phase.


----------



## OceanDude (Aug 2, 2003)

dymas I don't have the reference handy either but pot was reported to have a definate statistical link with lower motivation and reduced testosterone and I even think elevated estrogen.


----------



## Mudge (Aug 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by OceanDude *_
> Yeah, hate to say this but alcohol is basically seen as a ???poison??? to the body.



It is indeed! It is a WASTE PRODUCT, just imagine you are drinking some beings piss, deeeeeeeeelicious.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Aug 2, 2003)

dymas, saying that one joint is equivalent to four cigarretes doesn't mean anything because no one smokes 30 joints a day.  Say the average cigarrete smoker smokes a pack a day.  What is that like 16 cigarettes? The average weed smoker does not smoke 4 joints a day, nonetheless 16.


----------



## gr81 (Aug 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dymas *_
> you've got to be kidding me?! If you mean marijuana isn't as bad as smoking crack than ya you might have a point
> 
> Marijuana has the same cancer-causing crap in it that tobacco smoke. It might even be worse since when you smoke marijuana you hold the smoke in your lungs for longer. That sticks more tar in your lungs. In addition most joints are smoked all the way to the last bit (roach) and they aren't filtered like a cig.
> ...


----------



## Jodi (Aug 2, 2003)

You guys will keep the tone down in here I'll get rid of yet another thread.  

I mean it.


----------



## gr81 (Aug 2, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> This possibly the worst advice I have ever seen.
> 
> BB is a lifestyle not a fucking DIET!!  Your health should be the number one concern, not how ripped or lean you are.  This suggestion of smoking and popping pills is not the ways of a healthy lifestle.
> ...



Damn Jodi calm down, I was just joking. For your info there is nothing wrong with popping some pain pills now and then, it is MUCH LESS harmful than alcohol, Boos will harm much more in your body than just fat loss for 12 hrs. No one said it is a healthy lifestyle though b/c it isn't. You can't even compare weed smoke and pain medication to alcohol though in terms of biological harm, no doubt about it, prove me wrong.


----------



## gr81 (Aug 2, 2003)

No one here is getting a tone except you jodi, you are the one that got mad at my post and started to curse, taking it way to seriously. I simply stated that he was wrong in his statements and asked him to prove me wrong, there is nothing wrong with that.


----------



## dymas (Aug 3, 2003)

gr81:

you're right I really am clueless on marijuana  I did do some research on it a few years ago but that's about it.



> I simply stated that he was wrong in his statements


I posted a link to a research done by UCLA. I didn't think I was posting wrong info and backed up my statements. Whether or not UCLA study was any good who knows? For all I know Harvard could have done a research that marijuana is great for you.  There are two sides to every agrument right?



> and asked him to prove me wrong,


I'm not trying to prove anybody wrong. If people wanna smoke or do marijuana, so be it. I just find it hard to believe that anything smoked is going to do anything good to your lungs.


----------



## leg_press (Aug 3, 2003)

The older guy I know who trains and doesn't use supplements, buy's 24 short bottles of lager a day because he has friends round and he reckons it hasn't done him any harm


----------



## Mudge (Aug 3, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dymas *_
> I just find it hard to believe that anything smoked is going to do anything good to your lungs.



Exactly, who had the bright idea of standing over a campfire and breathing in the smoke, and then putting that in a cigarette.


----------



## Mudge (Aug 3, 2003)

Try injecting alcohol into your body and see how badly it kicks your ass, even a teaspoon will MORE than get the job done. Your liver has to filter that garbage out.


----------



## Mudge (Aug 3, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gr81 *_
> For your info there is nothing wrong with popping some pain pills now and then, it is MUCH LESS harmful than alcohol



Even Tylenol is hepatoxic.

http://neuro-www.mgh.harvard.edu/forum/CerebellarAtaxiaF/Somedrugshepatoxic.html


----------



## rburton (Aug 3, 2003)

This thread has had some interesting replies, to say the least. However, the comments have focused soley on the physical effects of alcohol and other drugs. What about the psychological and cognitive effects? For instance, memory is impaired, so are judgement and perception. I cannot understand why any one would want to ingest substances that can affect them adversely.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Aug 3, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> You guys will keep the tone down in here I'll get rid of yet another thread.
> 
> I mean it.


Just because you disagreee with what me and GR are saying doesn't give you the right to delete the thread. If we were being vulgar and offensive then maybe. No one is insulting anyone and everything seems very civil to me, just a little debate.


----------



## Fit Freak (Aug 3, 2003)

Back to the subject at hand...what to drink with the least effects in terms of BF...I would go with rum and water or vodka and water with a zest of lime.....or as Jodi mentionned mix any distilled alcohol with a diet soda, water, or crystal light.

Persoanlly I think it's possible to maintain or achieve a lean physique if you're drinking only once a week or once every two weeks.  Just make sure you don't eat junk during your partying time otherwise your waistline will definately pay the price.  If I plan a night out with plenty of alcohol I usually try to eat less during the day and avoid snacking while I'm intoxicated...then drink a tonne of water and hit the cardio hard the next day.

WORKS 4 ME


----------



## Jodi (Aug 3, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RCfootball87 *_
> Just because you disagreee with what me and GR are saying doesn't give you the right to delete the thread. If we were being vulgar and offensive then maybe. No one is insulting anyone and everything seems very civil to me, just a little debate.


You obviously missed a post or it was deleted were there was insult.  Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I would removed the thread.


----------



## gr81 (Aug 3, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dymas *_
> gr81:
> 
> you're right I really am clueless on marijuana  I did do some research on it a few years ago but that's about it.
> ...



Look no one claims that smoking anything is GOOD for you, I am just tired of the information that is fed and ate up by the general public about the dangers of certain substances like weed. It is not a carcinogen, people do not die from it, it poses very little health risks if used in a proper manner. Does that mean it is good for you, NO, but I have done plenty of research and I am tired of the myths being dispelled about the dangers of marijuana that just aren't true. I happen to feel very strongly that it should be illegalized so people can stopped being imprisoned for it.


----------



## gr81 (Aug 3, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Skib *_
> well for a 21 year old male i'm definately pretty good with my alcohol intake
> 
> i only drink about 2-4 times a month
> ...




Hey skib, I am 22 and haven't had any alcohol for a long time, I haven't been "shit faced" for even longer. Just b/c you are 21, that is no excuse. I stopped drinking b/c my bodybuilding goals outweighed getting drunk once in a while. Besides, look at it like this, yo drink so you can lose your inhibitions and talk to women more freely right, you wanna spit the drunk game. But when you are stacked you don't have to spit drunk game, you can walk around confident w/o alcohol. That is much more impressive to women.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Aug 3, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gr81 *_
> Look no one claims that smoking anything is GOOD for you, I am just tired of the information that is fed and ate up by the general public about the dangers of certain substances like weed. It is not a carcinogen, people do not die from it, it poses very little health risks if used in a proper manner. Does that mean it is good for you, NO, but I have done plenty of research and I am tired of the myths being dispelled about the dangers of marijuana that just aren't true. I happen to feel very strongly that it should be illegalized so people can stopped being imprisoned for it.


I agree with you here.  I ended up getting a detention because I disagreed with my "health" teacher when she said smoke weed and you could go into a coma(misspell?).  How many people has that happend to, two?  Even more than that she was making it out to be the most dangerous thing ever and the moron private school kids were eating up every word. This from the same teacher that said you can build muscle with just 60 grams of protein a day and you don't need that extra protein.  And the teacher that refused to even debate me about steroids after we read an exaggerated article about some idiot teenager who went bald because she said they were just dangerous and we all knew that so we won't go there.


----------



## gr81 (Aug 3, 2003)

its amazing the presonceptions that the general public has about some substances, they will believe anythihng that the gov. feeds them. How about those weed commercials that they have been playing where a stoner kills his friend accidently or crashes his car and it says that half of the drivers in accidents test positive for weed or something like that, not teling the audience that weed stays in your system for up to a month, negating their stupid statistic in the first place. I wish they would just educate people and let them make their own decisions, like we are too stupid to handle the facts


----------



## Mudge (Aug 3, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RCfootball87 *_
> I ended up getting a detention because I disagreed with my "health" teacher when she said smoke weed and you could go into a coma



That teacher sounds like a real dipstick.


----------



## RCfootball87 (Aug 4, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> That teacher sounds like a real dipstick.


I know more than half of my teachers about what they're trying to teach me! Morons.


----------



## Skib (Aug 4, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gr81 *_
> Hey skib, I am 22 and haven't had any alcohol for a long time, I haven't been "shit faced" for even longer. Just b/c you are 21, that is no excuse. I stopped drinking b/c my bodybuilding goals outweighed getting drunk once in a while. Besides, look at it like this, yo drink so you can lose your inhibitions and talk to women more freely right, you wanna spit the drunk game. But when you are stacked you don't have to spit drunk game, you can walk around confident w/o alcohol. That is much more impressive to women.



i fully agree but truthfully i really enjoy going out for drinks every so often... why else would i do it in the first place, right? who says i always have to mack the women? sometimes it's fun just having a few drinks with the boys and getting some good laughs...

i don't think i could ever fully give up drinking alcohol but i can definately deal with drinking less frequently and in smaller amounts


----------



## gr81 (Aug 4, 2003)

hey, we all have our vices in life, right.


----------



## OceanDude (Aug 5, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Skib *_
> ...who says i always have to mack the women? sometimes it's fun just having a few drinks with the boys and getting some good laughs...
> 
> i don't think i could ever fully give up drinking alcohol but i can definately deal with drinking less frequently and in smaller amounts



Hey good point. It never occurred to me to not mix drinks with women  Why screw up a good drink ?


----------



## dymas (Aug 5, 2003)

> It is not a carcinogen, people do not die from it, it poses very little health risks if used in a proper manner.



okay, you keep bring that part up so I went ahead and did some more google searches. Now I'll be the first to admit google isn't the most scientific way to research but it's too early in the morning to read medical journals   

So you keep telling me it's not a carcinogen but where are there medical studies proving this? From what I can find alot of pro-marijuana sites and message posts keep posting this over and over again but show little proof. 

I did however find some stuff about it. I apologize for ripping this off another message board but I forget which one I got it from.



> Cannabinoids, namely THC-9, are *not* considered carcinogenic according to many scientists who have studied cannabinoids.
> 
> Recent news articles refer to the impurities and other materials that are naturally present in cannabis that may cause cancer when consumed via smoking.
> 
> ...



I found this on same info paralleled on most level-headed pro-marijuana sites. So like I said in my original post, smoking anything is bound to be bad for you regardless of how much or how often you do it. 

And since smoking is by far the most effective and quickest way to get marijuana in your system I have to stick to my guns and say that smoking marijuana is bad. 

I am completely willing to be open to the fact that marijuana itself isn't that bad for you since I can't find that much medical research on it. 

I am however going to stay completely away from the subject of the neurological effects of marijuana because I think that's a whole separate discussion in itself.


----------



## leg_press (Aug 5, 2003)

K. All I was commenting on is that the guy I know who is REALLY muscular said that alcohol was okay. He only buys the really short say 250ml bottles, in 12's and buy three times as much water with it. He's on a diet of tuna and baked potatoes and stuff


----------



## Jodi (Aug 5, 2003)

Size does not equal knowledge


----------



## gr81 (Aug 6, 2003)

Alcohol is one of the worst things you can do for your body if your gosl is to gain muscle mass, and to just obtain an overall status of being healthy. You can listen to you buddy who obviously doesn't understand the functions o fthe body  or you can go by the facts


----------



## Mudge (Aug 6, 2003)

If your inhaling any kind of smoke IMO it is not healthy, period.


----------

