# Power & Clean forms



## zl214 (Dec 18, 2006)

i have noticed two coomon variations of doing P&C. But not sure which one is right....

so after I lift the weights up from the ground, I just hold the bar without touching may chest or shoulder. But the other day, when i was watching someone doing P&C at the asian Olympics, i noticed that the lifter rest the bar on his shoulders and then push it up.

so have i been using the wrong form all along???

thanks in advance


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## P-funk (Dec 18, 2006)

yes, you rack the bar onto your chest.


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## zl214 (Dec 18, 2006)

is rest the bar on the shoulders universially necessary?

I mean the way I do P&C (or clean press) is not as harcore as olympic lifters, e.g. I do not go really low and front squat the weight up. 

this is a graphic demonstration from bodybuilding.com. It seems that this guy did not rack the bar on his chest, despite the instruction clearly said so. 

many other demonstrations on the internet I found did not show the resting steps either.


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## Focus (Dec 18, 2006)

The weight he is using is rather small, compared to a powerlifting clean and press. When you are approaching higher numbers, you won't want to suspend the weight in the air like that when you prepare for the second phase of the movement. Racking the bar on the chest allows you to get more momentum exploding from the bottom of the push press.
Either form is good, but more strength will be needed if you suspend the bar in the air like that. In the squat after the clean, no madder how slight it is, holding the weight in air can drain you. If you are looking for the maximum effort numbers, rack it like P said. Suspending in the air seems difficult to maintain during the push press... slightest movement forward and you might need to dump the bar.


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## KarlW (Dec 18, 2006)

The power clean as opposed to the normal clean means pulling the bar from the floor and racking it in a standing position all in one movement, rather than racking it in a squat position, then standing. The press is optional and is then a power clean and press.

And yes, to not rack the bar would be to use fairly light weights.


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## P-funk (Dec 19, 2006)

those pictures are horrible technique of a power clean.  you shouldn't be using your arms to pull the bar up and you should rack the bar on your shouldres.  Pictures don't help much because the lift is so dynamic....those pictures don't help at all because they are terrible.


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## KarlW (Dec 19, 2006)

P-funk said:


> those pictures are horrible technique of a power clean. you shouldn't be using your arms to pull the bar up and you should rack the bar on your shouldres. Pictures don't help much because the lift is so dynamic....those pictures don't help at all because they are terrible.


 

hehehehe....

Found this http://orgs.jmu.edu/strength/Exercise_Technique/power_clean.htm.......informative and rather nice too


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## P-funk (Dec 19, 2006)

KarlW said:


> hehehehe....
> 
> Found this http://orgs.jmu.edu/strength/Exercise_Technique/power_clean.htm.......informative and rather nice too



greg werner is the strength coach at JMU.  he is a good strength coach.


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## KarlW (Dec 19, 2006)

http://orgs.jmu.edu/strength/Videos/Lift_Videos/JMU_8Bars_Up_MG.wmv

more power cleans


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## P-funk (Dec 19, 2006)

KarlW said:


> http://orgs.jmu.edu/strength/Videos/Lift_Videos/JMU_8Bars_Up_MG.wmv
> 
> more power cleans



yup.  that is a big boy!  I have watched that video a few times before.  there is another video on the site (although I don't know if it is still on there anymore) of one of the football players doing a 405lb hang clean.


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## KarlW (Dec 19, 2006)

P-funk said:


> yup. that is a big boy! I have watched that video a few times before. there is another video on the site (although I don't know if it is still on there anymore) of one of the football players doing a 405lb hang clean.


 
http://orgs.jmu.edu/strength/Videos/CK405Clean.html


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## P-funk (Dec 19, 2006)

KarlW said:


> http://orgs.jmu.edu/strength/Videos/CK405Clean.html



yae, but the video doesn't come up.  Does it work for you?


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## P-funk (Dec 19, 2006)

I got it now.  For some reason it wouldn't play in my Firefox windo?


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## zl214 (Dec 21, 2006)

P-funk said:


> you shouldn't be using your arms to pull the bar up.


 
thanks everyone for the input, the videos are great.

just wondering, what do you mean by not using your arms to pull?


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## Adamjs (Dec 21, 2006)

^ the dude in the picture is upright rowing rather than having a smooth movement using his whole body. 

Basically it looks like he's tried to break it down into segments so he can have his photo taken instead of performing the move as one would when actually doing it, hence, the entire sequence has been cocked up.


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## KarlW (Dec 21, 2006)

zl214 said:


> thanks everyone for the input, the videos are great.
> 
> just wondering, what do you mean by not using your arms to pull?


 
You pull with your whole body. Your hands happen to be wrapped around the bar, and your hands are attached to your arms, which are attached to your body. Unlike an upright row, where you do pull with your arms. Look up high pulls, they are like an upright row, only using your body.


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## P-funk (Dec 21, 2006)

zl214 said:


> thanks everyone for the input, the videos are great.
> 
> just wondering, what do you mean by not using your arms to pull?



your arms don't actively pull the weight up.  They are like "ropes"....all they do is hang there, you hips create the force to get teh bar moving and then you shrug yourself down against the bar to go under it and catch it.


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## The Monkey Man (Dec 25, 2006)

I like to think of the arms as the chains on a crane or hoist...
They just hang there while the boom and base do the lifting.


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## Soul of Sol (Dec 25, 2006)

On the topic of PC, I've noticed when I am doing light weight my hips don't drop down as far. As the weight increases, I drop my hips a lot deeper...all the way to parallel. Should I be trying to hit parallel with each rep, even with light weight?
 No one in any gym I have ever been to EVER Power Cleans, so I can't get an answer. Yet it's my favorite str move.


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## P-funk (Dec 25, 2006)

Soul of Sol said:


> On the topic of PC, I've noticed when I am doing light weight my hips don't drop down as far. As the weight increases, I drop my hips a lot deeper...all the way to parallel. Should I be trying to hit parallel with each rep, even with light weight?
> No one in any gym I have ever been to EVER Power Cleans, so I can't get an answer. Yet it's my favorite str move.



a power clean means that you are catching the bar above parallel.  If your hips are dropping to parallel or below it is no longer a power clean.


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## Soul of Sol (Dec 25, 2006)

Hmm, ok so this is the improper way to do PCs? I was under the impression that you should at least attempt parallel. Mind you, I would never go ATG like the lifter is doing.
 Thanks.


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## P-funk (Dec 25, 2006)

Soul of Sol said:


> Hmm, ok so this is the improper way to do PCs? I was under the impression that you should at least attempt parallel. Mind you, I would never go ATG like the lifter is doing.
> Thanks.



Why would you think that is a power clean?  it doesn't even say taht it is a power clean.  It is a clean (a full clean, a squat clean).

Power Cleans are caught above parallel.


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## P-funk (Dec 25, 2006)

Here  are some power cleans.  Notice how high they are when they make the catch.  About a quarter squat depth.


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## Soul of Sol (Dec 25, 2006)

P-funk said:


> Why would you think that is a power clean? it doesn't even say taht it is a power clean. It is a clean (a full clean, a squat clean).
> 
> Power Cleans are caught above parallel.



At the bottom of the page it lists the Power Clean standards. I clicked on that link PC Standards On the page that pops up, Power Cleans are linked three times... PC Standards and for men and women. When I clicked on the men, it brought me back to the Clean demonstration. So I assumed that was the proper technique. Bad, Sol, bad for assuming.


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## Soul of Sol (Dec 25, 2006)

P-funk said:


> Here  are some power cleans.  Notice how high they are when they make the catch.  About a quarter squat depth.



 Ok, sweet! I have been doing 'em right , after all. Now to stop dropping so deep in the heavier PCs...


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## P-funk (Dec 25, 2006)

Soul of Sol said:


> Ok, sweet! I have been doing 'em right , after all. Now to stop dropping so deep in the heavier PCs...



It isn't a problem if you are dropping all the way down.  It is just a full clean.  The weight is to heavy for you to pull high enough to catch in a power clean, so you have to squat completely under it.

Try doing one day of heavier weight and do squat cleans and a second day of light weight and do power cleans.


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## P-funk (Dec 25, 2006)

Soul of Sol said:


> At the bottom of the page it lists the Power Clean standards. I clicked on that link PC Standards On the page that pops up, Power Cleans are linked three times... PC Standards and for men and women. When I clicked on the men, it brought me back to the Clean demonstration. So I assumed that was the proper technique. Bad, Sol, bad for assuming.



yea, It says clean and shows a clean, but then it shows the average weight comparisons for a power clean.  weird?


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## Soul of Sol (Dec 25, 2006)

P-funk said:


> It isn't a problem if you are dropping all the way down. It is just a full clean. The weight is to heavy for you to pull high enough to catch in a power clean, so you have to squat completely under it.
> 
> Try doing one day of heavier weight and do squat cleans and a second day of light weight and do power cleans.




 I'll try this after I'm done with my fitness cycle. Thanks for all the advice, P.


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## KarlW (Dec 25, 2006)

Power exercises in general, by their nature, involve mid range weights. A power clean gets the bar from the ground to shoulder height in less time than a full clean. Which brings me to the question of power lifting. Why is PL called what it is? Is there a time limit to complete a lift once you start?

I mean when you think of power, you think of explosive moves, that naturally means somewhat less than maximal poundage. Yet PL is about maximal poundage and time is not really a consideration. Or is it? It would seem to me that PL is about pure strength.


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## P-funk (Dec 25, 2006)

KarlW said:


> Power exercises in general, by their nature, involve mid range weights. A power clean gets the bar from the ground to the shoulders in less time than a full clean. Which brings me to the question of power lifting. Why is PL called what it is? Is there a time limit to complete a lift once you start?
> 
> I mean when you think of power, you think of exposive moves, that naturally mean somewhat less than maximal poundage. Yet PL is about maximal poundage and time is not really a consideration. Or is it?



time isn't a consideration at all.  The powerlifts usually look slower than anything else because you are working at your limit strength.  That is at one of the the force velocity curve.....If resistance increases, then speed of movement decreases.  Even a 1RM squat clean or snatch is going to be a lot faster than a 1RM squat or deadlift, since they aren't at the highest limit of your strength potential (ie, the weight you can clean is typically much lighter than the weight of your 1RM deadlift).


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## KarlW (Dec 25, 2006)

Yeah but power is by definition time dependant. Am I just getting picky?


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## P-funk (Dec 25, 2006)

KarlW said:


> Yeah but power is by definition time dependant. Am I just getting picky?



yes.  you are correct.

power = work/time or power = force x velocity


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## zl214 (Dec 25, 2006)

do PLifters do PCs ? i thought its just the bench, DL and squating that they do.


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## P-funk (Dec 25, 2006)

zl214 said:


> do PLifters do PCs ? i thought its just the bench, DL and squating that they do.



powerlifting is squat, bench, dead.

olympic lifting is the snatch and the clean and jerk.


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## wilwn (Dec 26, 2006)

powerlifting is a bit of a misnomer.  rate of force production (power) is not being measured.  just force production.


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