# Young D's First AAS Cycle



## Tha Don (May 16, 2005)

My Cycle

weeks 1-4: Dbol 30mg/ed
weeks 1-10: Test Enth 500mg/wk
weeks 5-12: Hcg 500iu/e5d 
weeks 13-16: Nolva. day1: 60mg, day2-14: 40mg, day15-30: 20mg

cycle is due to begin this wednesday (17/05/05)


My Routine

right, thought i'd post up a little info on my current routine, i plan to stick with this routine over the first few weeks of the course while everything kicks in, after this period i 'might' switch up the frequency, but this is the routine i will be following to start with:

M-Chest/Abs
T-Lats/Traps/FArms
W-Rest or Light Cardio
T-Delts/Bis/Tris
F-Rest or Light Cardio
S-Quads/Calves/Abs
S-Rest

i'll be lifting with a reasonable amount of volume, roughly 3-4 exercises per bodypart (apart from calves, abs and forearms), and roughly 3-4 sets per excercise, workouts generally last around the 1 hour mark


My Lifts

my current lifts are as follows:

Flat BB Bench: 7x100kg
BB Rows: 8x80kg
Deadlift: 5x120kg (need some new straps for these, as my grip goes way before my back)
DB Shoulder Press: 6x25kg
Barbell Curl: 7x40kg
GC Bench: 6x80kg
Squat:10x80kg


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## celt (May 16, 2005)

Good thinkin!! Ill have to steal your idea  good luck on the cycle bro, youll turn green and start burstin through your cloths  lol . keep us updated!


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## Stu (May 16, 2005)

Did you get some other dbol, or have you still got the same stuff?


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## Du (May 16, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> i've decided to start a journal of my first cycle
> 
> i'll be running the following..
> dbol 30mg/ed for 4-6 weeks
> ...


Ill be doin EXACTLY what youre doin in less than a month. You running any AI, T3, or HCG on cycle?


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## Tha Don (May 16, 2005)

Stu said:
			
		

> Did you get some other dbol, or have you still got the same stuff?


dbol will be arriving weds, hence thats when i'll be starting the cycle (i've given up on the other stuff, day 7 today and still nothing, i'm convinced that its fake, i guess we'll find out for sure when i start the new stuff)


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## Tha Don (May 16, 2005)

du510 said:
			
		

> Ill be doin EXACTLY what youre doin in less than a month. You running any AI, T3, or HCG on cycle?


yes i've got some HCG back home which i'll be starting around week 3-4, and i'll probably run 500iu every 4-5 days from then on for the rest of the cycle

not gonna bother with any T3 this time, i'll try and keep a couple of cardio sessions in there along with my lifting, and keep the eating as clean as possible

i have both letro and nolva tabs on hand incase gyno shows up or i get some serious edema, hopefully neither will be a problem and i won't need any AI's on cycle, but i have them there just incase


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## Tha Don (May 16, 2005)

celt said:
			
		

> Good thinkin!! Ill have to steal your idea  good luck on the cycle bro, youll turn green and start burstin through your cloths  lol . keep us updated!


thanks for the support bro, its good to see you here!


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## Cardinal (May 16, 2005)

I'll be following.  Best of luck.  I am starting cycle II either tomorrow or Wednesday.  Oh scratch that.  I started this evening.


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## redspy (May 16, 2005)

Good luck Young D. You've done your research obviously. The one thing I would add is that 8 weeks too short for Test E, blood levels will take 3-4 weeks to peak so you'll be selling yourself short if you run with 8 weeks. 

Running just 500mg of Test you shouldn't need an AI (fingers crossed). You've got the Nolva in case of gyno so you're set.

Just one final point, don't forget that test can reduce connective tissue strength so don't go too crazy on the weights, particularly the shoulders.

Keep us posted!


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## LW83 (May 16, 2005)

G'luck YD.  I hope you get the outcome you want.


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## Flex (May 16, 2005)

Welcome to the darkside of the force







Together we can rule the bodybuilding galaxy as Flexer and Young. (...father and son haha)

Good luck, bro. 
You have any questions, you know where to come.
Now you're gonna see why pros take it to another level (damn i'm jealous of ya haha)

LIGHT WEIGHT!

FLEX


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## LW83 (May 16, 2005)

Flex said:
			
		

> Welcome to the darkside of the force
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## tryintogetbig (May 16, 2005)

I will be following along also, good luck


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## Tha Don (May 17, 2005)

Cardinal said:
			
		

> I'll be following.  Best of luck.  I am starting cycle II either tomorrow or Wednesday.  Oh scratch that.  I started this evening.


thanks for your support, best of luck to you also!


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## Tha Don (May 17, 2005)

redspy said:
			
		

> Good luck Young D. You've done your research obviously. The one thing I would add is that 8 weeks too short for Test E, blood levels will take 3-4 weeks to peak so you'll be selling yourself short if you run with 8 weeks.
> 
> Running just 500mg of Test you shouldn't need an AI (fingers crossed). You've got the Nolva in case of gyno so you're set.
> 
> ...


thanks redspy, i apprciate the knowledge, all of that has been taken in


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## Tha Don (May 17, 2005)

LW83 said:
			
		

> G'luck YD.  I hope you get the outcome you want.


thanks for your support Luke, no doubt i'll be hitting you up on aim for some more of those links when the test kicks in


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## Tha Don (May 17, 2005)

Flex said:
			
		

> Welcome to the darkside of the force
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Flexer and Young!  

thanks for all the support flex, i can't wait to get started now, its finally time to pack on some good ole' natural muscle   yeeeeaaap!


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## 19-chief (May 17, 2005)

welcome and good luck.


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## Tha Don (May 17, 2005)

tryintogetbig said:
			
		

> I will be following along also, good luck


thanks! should be an interesting 3 months


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## Tha Don (May 17, 2005)

19-chief said:
			
		

> welcome and good luck.


thanks chief!


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## Arrhar!! (May 17, 2005)

D-balls...yum...


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## Tom84 (May 17, 2005)

Good luck bro, Hope this one works out for you properly, damn fakes. You gonna keep a cycle log btw obviously i'l be following anyway but will be an interesting read if you decide to. 

Take it easy


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## Tha Don (May 17, 2005)

Tom84 said:
			
		

> Good luck bro, Hope this one works out for you properly, damn fakes. You gonna keep a cycle log btw obviously i'l be following anyway but will be an interesting read if you decide to.
> 
> Take it easy


thanks Tom, yeah this is it! everything is gonna be logged in here (weight, BF%, lifts, side effects, blood pressure and so on) should be an insightful and interesting read


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## soxmuscle (May 17, 2005)

I hate to sound like a jackass but why are you jumping into AAS before actually putting on some natural size?


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## LW83 (May 17, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> thanks for your support Luke, no doubt i'll be hitting you up on aim for some more of those links when the test kicks in


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## Tha Don (May 17, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> I hate to sound like a jackass but why are you jumping into AAS before actually putting on some natural size?


when i started lifting i was 9.5stone, which converts to around 130lbs (i was SKINNY), i am now around the 190lbs mark, thats a gain of 60lbs over the 5 years i have been lifting... how much more natural size do you expect me to put on???

over the past year or so i have totally plateaued, been stuck around the same weight for a very long time! "well then you need to eat more!" i hear you cry? i have tried eating more and i just get fatter!, i went from 10% last october to almoast 17% a month ago, and now i'm back down to around the 15% mark, i can't put on any more natural muscle without either getting very fat, or settling for gains of say 0.5-1lb a month (which considering the amount of time, money and effort i put into BBing is totally not worth it!) it is VERY fustrating! i want to get bigger, i know i can put on a good 20-30lbs over the next 3 months with anabolic support (compared to say 2-3lbs naturally), so IMO i'd be stupid not to start jucing! i feel that i've been ready to juice for a while now and i'm not holding back anymore, from now on i'm jucing until i have the body that i want (about 210lbs, 8-9% BF), naturally those sorts of stats are totally unattainable for me! (but hopefully sustainable)


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## soxmuscle (May 17, 2005)

...and you've tried changing routines slash style of training, diet, etc?


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## Du (May 17, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> I hate to sound like a jackass but why are you jumping into AAS before actually putting on some natural size?


Young D - how old are ya?


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## Tha Don (May 18, 2005)

*Day 1 - 17/05/05*

Stats

Weight: 191.4lbs (86.7kg)
BF%: 15%
Height: 6"2
Biceps: 15.2

*all readings will be taken upon waking up, before breakfast


first day today, woke up real early for some reason , just taken my first dbol dose (10mg), will be attempting my first shot in about an hour or so, i'm really excited about it and pretty nervous about it too, i'm gonna be using an 18g to draw, 21g (1.5inch) to jab, a little on the large side.. but flex wheeler used a 15g for his first shot! so it could be a LOT worse! i'll be going into my right glute for this one, and i pray that it all goes smoothly!


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## Tha Don (May 18, 2005)

du510 said:
			
		

> Young D - how old are ya?


21


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## LW83 (May 18, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> 21




You were supposed to say '15'


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## Tha Don (May 18, 2005)

*First Injection*

boy was i shakin!!!

just done my first injection into my right glute, was a bit rushed and shakey but i got the stuff in me (well most of it!), thats the main thing

i went about 1/2-2/3 of the way in with the needle (i know i should have gone a little deeper but i pretty sure it was far enough in there to reach my glutes), tried to aspirate, but i couldn't see too good, not sure if i pulled it back enough? but i saw no blood, so after that i started pressing the plunger in, did it nice a slowly although like i said i was shaking around a bit, and i thought i'd put it all in, so i pulled out, once i pulled out i realised there was a little bit left in there, like i'm guessing about 200mg of oil (2/10ths of the 1ml) it was only about 4 drops when i squirted the rest out and i decided that i wasn't gonna bother going back in.. just ensure that next time the plunger is all the way in, i figured i'd still get a good 200mg of test en. from that shot which is plenty for me

i'm in no real pain which is cool, a little stiffness but nothing unbearable which is a lot better than i thought, a fair bit of blood came out but after about 3-4 tissues it had stopped (i'm told this is common), the area around the injection is a little red now but i guess that is also expected, if i had hit a vien or not gone IM then i would know about it right?

anyways i did my first shot, and this is coming from someone who is totally needle phobic! my heart did melt when the pin went in but i'm sure it won't be as bad next time, actually i'm already looking forward to my next shot so i can do a better job of it


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## celt (May 18, 2005)

Great to hear ya got through it all okay d!!!! 1st is always the worst, it gets easier from here!


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## redspy (May 18, 2005)

Good deal YD. For glute shots a 23g 1.5" is fine, a larger pin has the potential to create more scar tissue. When doing glute shots I use a mirror so I can see the syringe while aspirating. I'd also recommend you insert the entire length of the pin, if don't inject deep enough you could be in trouble.

Taking a shower prior to shot will loosen up the muscle and will help reduce pain on the proceeding days. Also massage the inject site for 3-4 minutes to help disipate the oil.


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## soxmuscle (May 18, 2005)

Congratulations on the first injection and everything, but I can't say I support your usage considering you look no bigger than a skinny high schooler.


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## celt (May 18, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> Congratulations on the first injection and everything, but I can't say I support your usage considering you look no bigger than a skinny high schooler.



dont let the door hit ya on the way out


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## Stu (May 18, 2005)

celt said:
			
		

> dont let the door hit ya on the way out


 lol


 Nice work on the first injection, what Test E did you get?


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## soxmuscle (May 18, 2005)

Haha, I'll still be following.


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## Tha Don (May 18, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> you look no bigger than a skinny high schooler.


i know, thats why i'm taking the steroids dipshit!  

look i kept my cool after your first post and gave you an honest answer to your question, but now you are just being a total ass, so don't bother posting anything else in here, you obviously no nothing about AS and nothing about myself so your lame comments are totally pointless


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## Tha Don (May 18, 2005)

redspy said:
			
		

> Good deal YD. For glute shots a 23g 1.5" is fine, a larger pin has the potential to create more scar tissue. When doing glute shots I use a mirror so I can see the syringe while aspirating. I'd also recommend you insert the entire length of the pin, if don't inject deep enough you could be in trouble.
> 
> Taking a shower prior to shot will loosen up the muscle and will help reduce pain on the proceeding days. Also massage the inject site for 3-4 minutes to help disipate the oil.


it was a 21g man, though i might go back and see if i can get some 23g pinz instead, if not i guess these will have to do

i used a mirror but still struggled with the aspiration a part (its was all quite fiddly with one hand), i think i will practice doing it with one hand before i take my next shot

thanks for the massaging tip, didn't really think about that, TBH i kept it pretty still and sat down for a while afterwards, but i'll definately try that next time


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## Tha Don (May 18, 2005)

Stu said:
			
		

> what Test E did you get?


Iranian


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## soxmuscle (May 18, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> i know, thats why i'm taking the steroids dipshit!
> 
> look i kept my cool after your first post and gave you an honest answer to your question, but now you are just being a total ass, so don't bother posting anything else in here, you obviously no nothing about AS and nothing about myself so your lame comments are totally pointless


I don't know how you can draw the conclusion that I know nothing about AAS from what I've said in this thread; judging by your pictures and posts here on IM I can certainly draw the conclusion that you know nothing about training or dieting and in my opinion supplementing.


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## Pirate! (May 18, 2005)

> Nolva. day1: 60mg, day2-14: 40mg, day15-30: 20mg


Is this the amount of tamoxifen or tamoxifen citrate. I hope it is the former. I would go with a higher dose, personally.

Do you work your hams with your quads?

Do you do Rows on Tuesday with Lats?

I recommend using the dbol for 5 weeks.

Good luck, bro. Shooting gets easy quick. After a few weeks, I was doing it while talking on the phone with the other hand--delt shot.

By the time you finish this journal, you will have 3000 posts like me.


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## Tha Don (May 18, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> I don't know how you can draw the conclusion that I know nothing about AAS from what I've said in this thread; judging by your pictures and posts here on IM I can certainly draw the conclusion that you know nothing about training or dieting and in my opinion supplementing.


good for you! 

now FUCK OFF.


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## Tha Don (May 18, 2005)

PirateFromHell said:
			
		

> Is this the amount of tamoxifen or tamoxifen citrate. I hope it is the former. I would go with a higher dose, personally.
> 
> Do you work your hams with your quads?
> 
> ...


its the jupiter nolva man, tamox citrate but each tab is equivilent to 20mg tamoxifen, so on the first day i will take 3 tabs (60mg), then 2 tabs (40mg) and so on... would you say that dosing is okay? or should i bump it up a bit?

right now the only thing i do for my hams is deads which i do on back day, but i'm definately gonna start working them with quads on a saturday

yeah i do rows for lats, they are staple, bent over barbell rows hit my lats like no other back exercise

thanks for the dbol advice, i'll see how i get on with it, but i'm def. leaning towards 5-6 weeks on it, unless i decide to run it at the end of my cycle as well (someone said they had really good success with this, 4 weeks dbol at the start, 7 weeks off, 4 weeks dbol up to pct), its just an idea that i'll need to look into a little more, right now the plan is to just run it at the start but i'll see how things go

thanks for the support pirate, you've helped me a lot so far, really appriciate it bro! 1st workout is guns tomorrow, can't wait!  lets hope this dbol works on me!


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## Pirate! (May 18, 2005)

David (who used to be on that uk chat site you visit) has speculated that the nolva jupiter sells has about 12 mg of tamoxifen, not 20, per pill. I suspected they were underdosed after an M1T pct that did not go well at all. I think your pct schedule needs to be adjusted accordingly. I would either find better nolva or double your dose.


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## Cardinal (May 18, 2005)

Custom has some pretty cheap stuff, given that it is sold powder form. 

For glute shots, I just learned to make sure that my weight is on the other leg.  You can even put your foot up on something like a low step stool so that it is more relaxed.  One-handing the glute shots isn't that tough.  I just walk my fingers up the syringe being careful to be steady.  This was after nearly pulling an ab trying to reach my other hand back there.


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## Egoatdoor (May 18, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> when i started lifting i was 9.5stone, which converts to around 130lbs (i was SKINNY), i am now around the 190lbs mark, thats a gain of 60lbs over the 5 years i have been lifting... how much more natural size do you expect me to put on???
> 
> over the past year or so i have totally plateaued, been stuck around the same weight for a very long time! "well then you need to eat more!" i hear you cry? i have tried eating more and i just get fatter!, i went from 10% last october to almoast 17% a month ago, and now i'm back down to around the 15% mark, i can't put on any more natural muscle without either getting very fat, or settling for gains of say 0.5-1lb a month (which considering the amount of time, money and effort i put into BBing is totally not worth it!) it is VERY fustrating! i want to get bigger, i know i can put on a good 20-30lbs over the next 3 months with anabolic support (compared to say 2-3lbs naturally), so IMO i'd be stupid not to start jucing! i feel that i've been ready to juice for a while now and i'm not holding back anymore, from now on i'm jucing until i have the body that i want (about 210lbs, 8-9% BF), naturally those sorts of stats are totally unattainable for me! (but hopefully sustainable)


Young D, I am not a fan of AAS and would never use it myself, but your reasons for trying it are right on the money, so I cannot disagree with what you are doing. You've been training for a number of years, have put on some impressive size, but now it looks like you have maxxed out naturally. With greater ambitions and fully aware of the risks involved, you've made a value judgement.

Good luck. I'll be following along.


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## tryintogetbig (May 18, 2005)

GOOD LUCK with that first jab


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## redspy (May 18, 2005)

PirateFromHell said:
			
		

> David (who used to be on that uk chat site you visit) has speculated that the nolva jupiter sells has about 12 mg of tamoxifen, not 20, per pill. I suspected they were underdosed after an M1T pct that did not go well at all. I think your pct schedule needs to be adjusted accordingly. I would either find better nolva or double your dose.


Damn, I knew those were supposed to be under dosed, but 12mg?  I'm taking these for PCT so I guess I need to up the dose.  I'm beginning to lose faith in JP, i knew their benzos and pain meds were supposed to be underdosed but this is ridiculous.


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## Pirate! (May 18, 2005)

In general, India meds are underdosed. This goes for anxiety meds and other stuff. However British Dragon and other Indian pharms make good juice. The 12 mg figure is speculation, but the guy I refered to is highly regarded in the UK for his knowledge on the matter. I don't recall the name of his board, but young d knows him. Buying raw powder is simply the best and cheapest way to go. When you make your own, you can know you are dosing it right.

Cardinal, I don't think young d can order from custom since he is in the UK.

Brand name stuff like pregnyl is fine to buy from jupiter, as are other products. But if you don't know what brand it is, assume it is underdosed Indian Meds. As I stated above, generic Indian Meds are notorious for being underdosed.


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## redspy (May 18, 2005)

Just as well I have a stash of IBE nolva and clomid.

BTW Young D I believe IBE ships to the UK in case you're in a bind.


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## Stu (May 18, 2005)

redspy said:
			
		

> Just as well I have a stash of IBE nolva and clomid.
> 
> BTW Young D I believe IBE ships to the UK in case you're in a bind.


 Yep they do, my T3 arrived yesterday. Shippings about $30 which isn't too bad.


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## Tha Don (May 19, 2005)

PirateFromHell said:
			
		

> David (who used to be on that uk chat site you visit) has speculated that the nolva jupiter sells has about 12 mg of tamoxifen, not 20, per pill. I suspected they were underdosed after an M1T pct that did not go well at all. I think your pct schedule needs to be adjusted accordingly. I would either find better nolva or double your dose.


yes i remember david, good guy, thanks for the warning about the nolva, i might try and get some better tabs for my pct.. if not i will definately double my doses


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## Tha Don (May 19, 2005)

Egoatdoor said:
			
		

> Young D, I am not a fan of AAS and would never use it myself, but your reasons for trying it are right on the money, so I cannot disagree with what you are doing. You've been training for a number of years, have put on some impressive size, but now it looks like you have maxxed out naturally. With greater ambitions and fully aware of the risks involved, you've made a value judgement.
> 
> Good luck. I'll be following along.


thanks egoatdoor


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## Tha Don (May 19, 2005)

Cardinal said:
			
		

> For glute shots, I just learned to make sure that my weight is on the other leg.  You can even put your foot up on something like a low step stool so that it is more relaxed.  One-handing the glute shots isn't that tough.  I just walk my fingers up the syringe being careful to be steady.  This was after nearly pulling an ab trying to reach my other hand back there.


thanks for the tips

next shot will be to my left glute, i think i might try and pin with my left, then bring my right around and whilst holding the needle steady with my left.. pull back (aspirate) and then apply pressure with my right, i can't see myself doing it all with my left hand!


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## Mags (May 19, 2005)

hey dude, good luck pal, hope all goes well and you get some great results. I'm guessing this'll be an exciting time! How come you arent running the test for at least 10 wks? What made you run HCG from wk 5 till two wks after ya last test shot? Im not moaning at you as you know Im still finding my feet about specifics myself, but isnt 7 weeks on HCG gonna start being suppressive? I dont know all the answers, but when I suggested running HCG as part of the PCT as well (which I tend to think is a good idea- run it alittle in the cycle to halt nut atrophy and then also after the exogenous test has finished up, continue to shoot it to jump start natural test again) everyone tended to be "No, shoot the last HCG shot a week before your last test shot", "you won't need it with test", just keep it on hand" and "it'll be suppressive" etc. I suppose its each to his own at the end of it all and will only know if our bodies like it or not.  How many cals are you gonna be on each day? Good luck pal. Keep us posted, my cycle will pretty much look the same as yours, so will be eager to see how you get on. All the best!


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## Mags (May 19, 2005)

*Twat*



			
				soxmuscle said:
			
		

> Congratulations on the first injection and everything, but I can't say I support your usage considering you look no bigger than a skinny high schooler.


Who is this ass?


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## Mags (May 19, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> good for you!
> 
> now FUCK OFF.


Haha, nicely put


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## Tha Don (May 19, 2005)

Mags said:
			
		

> hey dude, good luck pal, hope all goes well and you get some great results. I'm guessing this'll be an exciting time! How come you arent running the test for at least 10 wks? What made you run HCG from wk 5 till two wks after ya last test shot? Im not moaning at you as you know Im still finding my feet about specifics myself, but isnt 7 weeks on HCG gonna start being suppressive? I dont know all the answers, but when I suggested running HCG as part of the PCT as well (which I tend to think is a good idea- run it alittle in the cycle to halt nut atrophy and then also after the exogenous test has finished up, continue to shoot it to jump start natural test again) everyone tended to be "No, shoot the last HCG shot a week before your last test shot", "you won't need it with test", just keep it on hand" and "it'll be suppressive" etc. I suppose its each to his own at the end of it all and will only know if our bodies like it or not.  How many cals are you gonna be on each day? Good luck pal. Keep us posted, my cycle will pretty much look the same as yours, so will be eager to see how you get on. All the best!


thanks mags

i am running the test for 10wks, my hcg is at home and i'm stuck up at uni right now so i will start it once i go back home which will be around week 5, i'm only gonna be running a low dose of hcg just to prevent too much atrophy downstairs and make recovery easier, it will probably be trial and error, if i shrink a little...  i'll take some hcg to get my nuts back up to size, i'll use the size of my balls as a measure and use low doses so i don't over-do it, thats all i'm gonna say about the hcg issue, i'm not looking into it that much anymore as everyone recommends different things, i just have it on hand to run when needed on cycle, and i'll run it again before my pct, 

i'm not totally sure of my number of cals, i let my weight changes and BF% gauge my eating these days, i'd guess i'm eating around the 4500 mark (as i am putting on weight pretty quickly right now, so i'm easily above maintenance)- give or take 500, my current diet consists 7 high protein/complex carb meals a day (mainly fish, eggs, chicken, and whey for protein, rice, oats, potatos and wholemeal bread for carbs), the only exception is bedtime where i drop the carbs and up the healthy fats (fish oils and PB), i'll get a sample of my diet posted up shortly


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## celt (May 19, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> good for you!
> 
> now FUCK OFF.


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## 19-chief (May 19, 2005)

yo d, you might have told us before but how big are you right now? what are you realistically looking to net from this cycle?


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## Mags (May 19, 2005)

Yeah, I know what you mean about the HCG, its impossible to sort a single best way of doing it, so I agree that it'll be a learn as you go (my positive way of saying trial and error,ha) phase, especially this being your first cycle, I guess it gets to the point where you've done so much research and planning that you start checking yourself and what you've decided, so in the end you just have to take the plunge. Good shout on your diet, Im pretty much hitting 4300 cals a day at the mo, but will have to review my protein intake although I think Im okay for that (1 to 1.5g per lb but it fluctuates). Anyway, hope all keeps going well dude.


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## Cardinal (May 19, 2005)

Mags, 

Don't mean to be cluttering up the thread but using HCG during PCT is not a try and see if it works for you type of thing.  It is suppressive and should not be used after the esters clear your system and you start PCT.  The way young is planning it is probably the smartest way of going about it imo.  Most users either use it starting week 3+ for a small to moderate amount each week, but some use if right before pct in much bigger doses.  Those that use it during PCT are underinformed imo.


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## Tha Don (May 19, 2005)

19-chief said:
			
		

> yo d, you might have told us before but how big are you right now? what are you realistically looking to net from this cycle?


thats a very good question! i actually forgot to talk about my aims and targets for the cycle

my overall aim of this cycle is to put on as much muscle mass as possible, i'm around 190lbs right now, i'd like to get up to around 210-215lbs by the end of this cycle, and obviously keep it all  if i can keep 20lbs from this cycle i will be very happy indeed, i think that is definately attainable from what i've heard others gain, i gained 5lbs from 1ad and i was definately noticably bigger, so an extra 20lbs would be awesome!


----------



## naturaltan (May 19, 2005)

You're 190lbs?  You pictures make you seem much lighter than that.  Are those pics current?


----------



## largepkg (May 19, 2005)

I think he's tall as well NT. I thought he said he was 6'2''.


----------



## Tha Don (May 19, 2005)

*Day 2 - 18/05/05*

well my second day on cycle today, haven't noticed anything too dramatic yet, woke up feeling very optimistic, a little discomfort in my right glute but nothing to cry over

had my first workout of the cycle today which was delts, bis and tris... the workout went okay, lifts were very slightly up from last week (same weights, but getting out an extra rep or 2) but no major surges in strength just yet, the workout did go on a bit, i was a bit sluggish in there, seemed to be lacking a bit of energy and didn't really have that mental spark/focus which you really need for them 'killer' workouts! (but i have my reasons for that right now), pumps were decent today, but nothing too insane yet, overall though it was a decent workout, key lifts:
military press: 6x60kg
barbell curl: 8x40kg
CG bench press: 6x80kg


----------



## Tha Don (May 19, 2005)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> You're 190lbs?  You pictures make you seem much lighter than that.  Are those pics current?


yeah some of them are quite old, i've tried to date most of them, and yes i'm 6"2


----------



## Pirate! (May 20, 2005)

You could try glute shots lying on your side if you can aspirate with one hand.


----------



## Cardinal (May 20, 2005)

Have you done any PH/PS cycles before this first AAS run?  Sorry if the qtn has already been asked.  Looking at your lifts, you and I started at a really similar point.  I am also 6'2", but started using at 182 lbs.  Only major difference is that I am an endo.  

You are going to be really impressed with the gains overall I think in this first year.  If you run enough strength compounds, you will also probably amaze yourself how strong you can get with good cns stimulation.


----------



## GFR (May 20, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> Congratulations on the first injection and everything, but I can't say I support your usage considering you look no bigger than a skinny high schooler.


Don't sweat it young d you look about 25lbs bigger and much more cut than Soxnomuscle


----------



## Tha Don (May 20, 2005)

Cardinal said:
			
		

> Have you done any PH/PS cycles before this first AAS run?


yes i ran a 1-ad cycle in jan/feb of this year, cycle went well, put on a clean 5lbs of LBM which i kept all of pct, i also put on a fair bit of strength from that (a comfortable extra 5-10kg on all lifts) but then i started cutting about a month ago and lost pretty much everything!  it was my own fault, cut cals way too low and overdid it on the cardio, when really there is no need for my to cut that extreme being the bodytype that i am, but in a way i'm glad because i've fully learnt my lesson, i will never cut like that again and next time i cut it will be with anabolic support


----------



## Mags (May 20, 2005)

Cardinal said:
			
		

> Mags,
> 
> Don't mean to be cluttering up the thread but using HCG during PCT is not a try and see if it works for you type of thing. It is suppressive and should not be used after the esters clear your system and you start PCT. The way young is planning it is probably the smartest way of going about it imo. Most users either use it starting week 3+ for a small to moderate amount each week, but some use if right before pct in much bigger doses. Those that use it during PCT are underinformed imo.


Just saying what is a fact. Alot of people on here tell you hundreds of different ways to use HCG on a cycle. I wasn't dismissing D's way of running it, or saying it was wrong, I was just saying that you can only hear so many ways of skinning the cat before you have to decide which way is best for you. Personally I am up for running HCG week 3 to week 9 (6weeks total), the last HCG shot a week before my last test shot. I thought this seemed pretty sensible. Now I think I'll just get some incase nut atrophy starts becoming a problem. No disrespect to either you or D.


----------



## Mags (May 20, 2005)

Mags said:
			
		

> isnt 7 weeks on HCG gonna start being suppressive? I dont know all the answers, but when I suggested running HCG as part of the PCT as well (which I tend to think is a good idea- run it alittle in the cycle to halt nut atrophy and then also after the exogenous test has finished up, continue to shoot it to jump start natural test again) everyone tended to be "No, shoot the last HCG shot a week before your last test shot", "you won't need it with test", just keep it on hand" and "it'll be supressive"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Mags (May 20, 2005)

hope all is going well still D


----------



## Tha Don (May 20, 2005)

okay lets not get too caught up in the hcg debate, or else this thread is gonna be over 10 pages long before the real action starts!


----------



## Tha Don (May 20, 2005)

*Day 3 - 19/05/05*

okay its another rest day today so no workout, although i've walked into town n' back twice today so my wheels have done a fair bit of mileage, right glute is pretty uncomfortable today, i'd actually say its worse today than it was yesterday and wednesday, not too sure why? but i'll make sure i massage the area well after future shots as it could be something to do with not getting a lot of movement on the wednesday, its not the actual spot that hurts but rather the whole muscle? i'm guessing this is just something i'll have to get used to, certainly puts me off the thought of pinning EOD!

everything seems to be going good so far, and the stuff that was worrying me yesterday is now over with (dani thought she might be pregnant, but today she told me she has come 'on' thank God!), so that is good news, more good news is i'm working tonight, which means another £60 for an hours work (at todays exchange rates thats around $120)  although i'm looking quite a bit fuller already my face is looking pretty bloated, so i'm gonna take 3 caps of taraxatone now in an attempt to lean out a little for tonight, i doubt they will have any significant impact but its worth a try, every little helps i guess!


----------



## Mags (May 20, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> okay lets not get too caught up in the hcg debate, or else this thread is gonna be over 10 pages long before the real action starts!


Fair play dude, forgot this is actually your journal


----------



## soxmuscle (May 20, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Don't sweat it young d you look about 25lbs bigger and much more cut than Soxnomuscle


I was 15 years old in those pictures and had been working out for just over a year using whey protein, and d's 21 years old and has been working out for five years using prohormones/prosteroids.  I wonder why he's 25 pounds heavier than I am?

I will continue to "fuck off" like I have been doing now.


----------



## Du (May 20, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> I don't know how you can draw the conclusion that I know nothing about AAS from what I've said in this thread; judging by your pictures and posts here on IM I can certainly draw the conclusion that you know nothing about training or dieting and in my opinion supplementing.


This needed to be said.




Definitely up the Nolva dosage, especially first comin off cycle. Better to have too much nolva than too little.

Good luck Young D.


----------



## redspy (May 20, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> ...., right glute is pretty uncomfortable today, i'd actually say its worse today than it was yesterday and wednesday, not too sure why? but i'll make sure i massage the area well after future shots as it could be something to do with not getting a lot of movement on the wednesday, its not the actual spot that hurts but rather the whole muscle? i'm guessing this is just something i'll have to get used to, certainly puts me off the thought of pinning EOD!


After a few more shots your body should adjust and the pain will diminish as the cycle progresses. 

Taking ibuprofen (an anti-inflammatory) will help a bit, as will a heating pad.

Just wait til those test levels peak, you'll love it!


----------



## Tha Don (May 20, 2005)

du510 said:
			
		

> This needed to be said.


well if you think that then you can fuck off too

lets see your fucking abs then we'll see who knows nothing about diet or training, jeeez! haters


----------



## Tha Don (May 20, 2005)

redspy said:
			
		

> After a few more shots your body should adjust and the pain will diminish as the cycle progresses.
> 
> Taking ibuprofen (an anti-inflammatory) will help a bit, as will a heating pad.
> 
> Just wait til those test levels peak, you'll love it!


cheers for the advice bro, i'll probably just let myself get used to it, maybe try ibuprofen if it becomes a problem, but its nothing i can't live with for the moment


----------



## Du (May 20, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> well if you think that then you can fuck off too
> 
> lets see your fucking abs then we'll see who knows nothing about diet or training, jeeez! haters


Did ya read the rest of the post? Stop bein a prick. 

Lets see the measurements of your bis/tris, chest, waist, quads, calves, and forearms. Then we'll see who knows nothing about diet or training. 

Jeez, immaturity.


----------



## Tha Don (May 20, 2005)

du510 said:
			
		

> Did ya read the rest of the post? Stop bein a prick.


do you understand English? fuck off means fuck off as in don't post in my journal again! theres always some dickhead out there that has to try n' spoil things


----------



## Du (May 20, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> do you understand English? fuck off means fuck off as in don't post in my journal again! theres always some dickhead out there that has to try n' spoil things


Again, youre leaving out half the post. Youre just tryin to start arguments.

I do understand English, I speak it daily. No worries there. 

I will post any God damn place I please. 

How do my posts constitute being a "dickhead out there that has to try to spoil things"? If you can give a reasonable answer to that (and maybe even reply to the whole post, not just one small line), Ill do as you wish and "sod off".

Please enlighten me, as Im not going to simply get into a "fuck off, dickhead" argument with you, as you seem to want.

Have at it, hoss.


----------



## Tha Don (May 20, 2005)

du510 said:
			
		

> Again, youre leaving out half the post. Youre just tryin to start arguments.
> 
> I do understand English, I speak it daily. No worries there.
> 
> ...


  

well everyone just saw you start the argument by coming in here n' thowing out cheap insults at me, thats why you're a "dickhead", now please do us all a favour and "sod off"


----------



## Du (May 20, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> well everyone just saw you start the argument by coming in here n' thowing out cheap insults at me, thats why you're a "dickhead", now please do us all a favour and "sod off"


 
So, no real response? Just a "fuck off, dickhead" (in other words)? If you've got nothing more to say than that, its alright to admit. 

I didnt start an argument, I simply said that Sox's post had merit and deserved posting. The next line in that post was advice to you. Perhaps you could re-read it.


----------



## Tha Don (May 20, 2005)

du510 said:
			
		

> So, no real response? Just a "fuck off, dickhead" (in other words)? If you've got nothing more to say than that, its alright to admit.


no i haven't got anymore to say! so you still posting here is really pointless, coz you know my response is just gonna be another "fuck off, dickhead"


----------



## Du (May 20, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> no i haven't got anymore to say! so you still posting here is really pointless, coz you know my response is just gonna be another "fuck off, dickhead"


Are you going to say that to anyone who posts, but doesnt say "Hey keep it up!"?

'Cuz I said nothing derogatory.


----------



## Egoatdoor (May 20, 2005)

C'mon. The man doesn't want you here. Stop cluttering up the thread and go away.


----------



## Du (May 20, 2005)

Egoatdoor said:
			
		

> C'mon. The man doesn't want you here. Stop cluttering up the thread and go away.


Ya cant throw insults at me and have me not want an explanation. Thats all I want. I said that. Read my posts.


----------



## redspy (May 20, 2005)

I come here to see YD's progress, not drama.


----------



## celt (May 21, 2005)

redspy said:
			
		

> I come here to see YD's progress, not drama.




Yeah, what the fuck is with all the hating and negativity which is being directed at D because of? its been goin on since this journal started, if ya have a problem with his age or build or something then tough shit!!!! he doesnt need to explain himself to anyone!!! I can see why hed be pissed with people comin into his journal posting extremely critical things, which border on insults, so just leave it.


*Anyway,* i hope the cycle is goin well D, any gains so far?


----------



## TheCurse (May 21, 2005)

whatever you think about it, young d's already on his cycle and committed, best thing we can do now is support him in his endeavors, not make him try and second guess himself.

 good luck D, im following for 'research' purposes


----------



## redspy (May 21, 2005)

Exactly.  Let's get back on topic and enjoy the ride.


----------



## Seanp156 (May 21, 2005)

TheCurse said:
			
		

> whatever you think about it, young d's already on his cycle and committed, best thing we can do now is support him in his endeavors, not make him try and second guess himself.
> 
> good luck D, im following for 'research' purposes


 I still say 3 is the answer.


----------



## Robboe (May 22, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> no i haven't got anymore to say! so you still posting here is really pointless, coz you know my response is just gonna be another "fuck off, dickhead"



'Roid rage? lol.

Jes' kidding.

What club do you work at? One of my best friends is at Uni in Nottingham and has been there for the past three years. She does graphic design or drama prop design or something like that. I'll have to tell her to drop in and laugh at you in your little dickie-bow tie.


----------



## Eggs (May 22, 2005)

du510 said:
			
		

> This needed to be said.



Actually, I dont know if it needed to be said. From what I've seen around the forum Sox tends to have a big mouth. If he wants to come into a guys personal journal and talk shit... he should go fuck himself first.

And the same to anybody else who goes into someones journal and tries to start shit there. This is their little place on the site that they can get encouragement and talk about whats going on. They shouldn't have to deal with people throwing around insults.

Which he most certainly did.

You wouldn't walk into somebodies house and spit in their face... and you shouldn't do it in someones journal.


----------



## soxmuscle (May 22, 2005)

I didnt talk any shit, I only defended myself.  Please Eggs, I can't remember having any interaction with you besides once in the Sports forum, but I guess from that you can draw the conclusion that I have a big mouth.  Personally I think you should stop being a bitch, and stop being hypocritical, and take this to PM.


----------



## GFR (May 22, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> I was 15 years old in those pictures and had been working out for just over a year using whey protein, and d's 21 years old and has been working out for five years using prohormones/prosteroids.  I wonder why he's 25 pounds heavier than I am?
> 
> I will continue to "fuck off" like I have been doing now.


Whats you're point??? he looks good and you need to disrespect him?


----------



## soxmuscle (May 22, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Whats you're point??? he looks good and you need to disrespect him?


I wasn't disrespecting him.


----------



## GFR (May 22, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> I wasn't disrespecting him.


Sorry you fooled me with you're negative comments on his physique...my bad


----------



## soxmuscle (May 22, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Sorry you fooled me with you're negative comments on his physique...my bad


They weren't disrespectful.  They were truthful.


----------



## GFR (May 23, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> They weren't disrespectful.  They were truthful.



I do not want to disrespect you; I wish you felt the same about people who are more advanced than you.


----------



## Tha Don (May 23, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> They weren't disrespectful.  They were truthful.


er.. no, calling you a skinny little trash talking piece of shit is truthful

seriously how much bigger do you expect me to get naturally? can you really imagine me naturally putting on another clean 20-30lbs without roids? i don't think so! i don't have the genetics to put on that sort of mass like a lot of other people you dumb shit! i'm a tall, skinny, lanky ectomorph, my shoulders used to stick out like curtain rails, my head used to like 5x too big for my body, my ribs used to show through my clothes, i couldn't do 1 undergrip pull-up when i was younger (this is before weights, but i was still very active and sporty, and all the other guys at my school could do a good 5-6, they were also untrained), can you actually imagine what being 6ft+ and 130lbs looks like??? i agree if my body was untrained and i had been this sort of size my whole life of course i could get a lot bigger, but i'm way above my natural untrained size right now, see thats why i get so fuckin pissed off with little shits like you, your the same sort of guys that think Arnold never took steroids until his late twenties, or the NFL is all drug-free now... you can't get the bodies in the magazines with tons of food and tubs of cell-tech, i've tried tons of food and low volume training and the only place i add mass is around my fucking waistline, if my goal is to get a body similar to that of a juiced up athlete then i accept to reach my goal a certain amount of juice is involved! that is just something i accepted a long time ago


----------



## soxmuscle (May 23, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I do not want to disrespect you; I wish you felt the same about people who are more advanced than you.


If your implying that d's more advanced than me, I am going to have to agree with you on the subject of AAS, but not a single chance in terms of dieting and training.


----------



## Robboe (May 23, 2005)

I have no probem with you using steroids if you've done your homework and know how your body reacts to various training and dietary stimulii, but i must admit i do think you could add another 20-30lbs based on your photos. It would take you a fair while to achieve, but you could manage it.


----------



## soxmuscle (May 23, 2005)

I don't think any of those things you mentioned.  However I do think that, looking at your pictures, if you trained and dieted right for five-plus years that you would be somewhat bigger than that, naturally.  Maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## tryintogetbig (May 23, 2005)

So enough of the drama  

Hey D hows the training going, you feel the dbol kick in yet??


----------



## Eggs (May 23, 2005)

I mean, I dont really need to take this to PM. This was started in the public, so might as well end that way. Listen Sox, I've seen you post quite a few times. Our interaction is limited, because for the most part I ignore you. The reason being, is that you go out of your way to trash people. Its one thing to talk trash in the open talk area... we do that there, and truth tell its not really personal. See the threads trashing me right now, and Canada   However, to come to someones journal is completely different, as is to look at their pics and criticize them based on that.

I'm not going to do that, because realistically talking smack about your pics isnt my thing... but come on, you're 17 and have been lifting for a year. You dont know what this guys genes are like, so how can you talk smack about his diet, etc? I have friends that are 6'1" and about 125lbs and eat twinkies all day long, and othe crazy shit. Some people are genetically geared to be thin, and yes, then can put on some weight if they work really hard, but after 5 years I think the guy has probably learned a few things. I'm 190lbs right now, should I criticize you for not knowing what you're doing?

Its one thing to ask questions nicely and piece together whether that person knows what they are doing or not. On the other hand, its really not acceptable to jump in and call them names and tell them they dont know what they're doing.

You're a kid sox.. believe it or not but there is a difference between 17 and 21. Both in knowledge, and maturity. D wasnt looking for your journal to trash it that I know of, and the same respect should be given to him.

Now, I dont feel like dirtying up his journal any more with this. We can talk about it in open chat if you'd like, or we can just let it drop and you give the guy a break.


----------



## Tha Don (May 23, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> However I do think that, looking at your pictures, if you trained and dieted right for five-plus years that you would be somewhat bigger than that, naturally.  Maybe I'm wrong.


i haven't got 5 years to kill trying to put an extra 10lbs on, especially when i can put on 20lbs in 5 weeks with dbol!


----------



## Tha Don (May 23, 2005)

*Day 4 - 20/05/05 & Day 5 - 21/05/05*

okay this update is a little late, didn't know if i would bother carrying on with this journal after all the negativity in this thread, its beginning to seriously depress me now, but i will carry on for another day or so and then see how i feel about things

saturday i trained legs, which consisted of mainly of squats for the quads and calf raises for the calves, key lifts:
squats: 10x80kg
calf raises (single leg): 40x32.5kg

i also did a little dynamic bench pressing and bent over rowing, i've definately noticed a difference in upper body strength since implementing this, so now i do them every week at the end of my leg workouts

sunday i did my 2nd injection, 1ml of test into my left glute, the actual injection went GREAT! but i couldn't seem to open an amp without smashing it! i broke 3 amps, had to ditch 2 of them (the second one went everywhere!), the 3rd one the oil stayed in the bottom of the amp, a little debris had fallin in but i thought hell with it and just drew it up anyway

i was trying to cut them open with scissors, lol, but i've heard it is best to scold round the neck with a knife or file and then just snap the top off with your hands, so i will try doing it that way next time


----------



## Du (May 23, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> i haven't got 5 years to kill trying to put an extra 10lbs on, especially when i can put on 20lbs in 5 weeks with dbol!


Which brand are you using? BD?


----------



## redspy (May 23, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> okay this update is a little late, didn't know if i would bother carrying on with this journal after all the negativity in this thread, its beginning to seriously depress me now, but i will carry on for another day or so and then see how i feel about things


Hang in there bro.  Just remember that people who make vocal judgements aren't devoid of bad decision making themselves.  You've done your research, you understand the risks, and only you understand the best approach to get your body to the next level.  

Needless to say if you want to post your journal on the 'other' board you're very welcome.  No drama guaranteed


----------



## soxmuscle (May 23, 2005)

Carry on, Young D.  My viewpoints shouldn't phase you to the least.  The drama is over and done with.


----------



## tryintogetbig (May 23, 2005)

you have been on your new batch of dbol since last wed?


----------



## Du (May 23, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> okay this update is a little late, didn't know if i would bother carrying on with this journal after all the negativity in this thread, its beginning to seriously depress me now, but i will carry on for another day or so and then see how i feel about things


Dont let anyone get in your way, myself included. You do your thing; we are all here to "learn, teach, and lead". We are in here to read about your progress and work with ya if and when need be. 

You still lookin at 8 weeks enan? Or have you pushed it up to 10/12?


----------



## Pirate! (May 23, 2005)

redspy said:
			
		

> Needless to say if you want to post your journal on the 'other' board you're very welcome.  No drama guaranteed


Solid advice here. I told you the same some time ago.

IMO, Sox comments were derogatory. I think Du was trying to say that those issues should be addressed more than he was saying that those comments needed to be said that way. Obviously, young d isn't huge. I'm not either, and I received more severe criticism when I did my first cycle and kept a journal here. Young d, I think you were a bit overly sensitive. Don't let people get you down. I seriously advise you to keep your journal on a forum with plenty of vets. Their posts in your journal will help you learn and make improvements. Either way, starting this journal over with just your posts is a good idea. I think you will fell better about it. I didn't even start my journal until I was 18 days and 18 lbs into my cycle. The way I see it, there is no reason for someone to post in someone's journal if they are not making a contribution.


----------



## The Grafter (May 24, 2005)

Good luck with your cycle bro, I know you've done loads of research so ignore the pricks on here who are trying to make you doubt yourself.


----------



## Tom84 (May 24, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> thanks Tom, yeah this is it! everything is gonna be logged in here (weight, BF%, lifts, side effects, blood pressure and so on) should be an insightful and interesting read



lol sorry bro got the link from your sig (can just here ppl sayin fuckin stupid newbie)

yep will be 4 sure enjoyed reading are 1ad cycles was good in comparison il see how this cycle goes for you as it will probably be very similar to my first AAS cycle if not identical. Again good luck bro


----------



## Tom84 (May 24, 2005)

Just read through the full thread, I think negative comments in someones thread from someone with only 20% experience of the thread host is very derogatory. 
Personally im quite new to this site and havent come across u before sox but ive known D through the forums for a long time and I know how hard he has to work for gains and how ready he is to do this cycle.
Anyway I really dont wanna reignite that argument and ruin his thread just needed to be said.
Take it easy bro

And mate what ever happened to David (know his forum was closed down) got an email telling me he was a scammer from the webhost.


----------



## Pirate! (May 24, 2005)

Tom84 said:
			
		

> And mate what ever happened to David (know his forum was closed down) got an email telling me he was a scammer from the webhost.


Sorry to go off topic, but I seriously doubt David was a scammer.


----------



## tryintogetbig (May 24, 2005)

HEY Young D,

 why don't you just start a new journal  there are sooo many other topics in here besides your training,


----------



## Tom84 (May 24, 2005)

PirateFromHell said:
			
		

> Sorry to go off topic, but I seriously doubt David was a scammer.



yeah me too his forum was called houseofjuice.co.uk but was somehow linked to musclechat.co.uk. The owner of the second sold the forum name to the owner of the first.I was a member of both. H of J got closed down for some reason and i was emailed from the admin staff of one of the boards cant remember which saying David was a scammer. I thought no way he'd given me sources before who were Uk and I still use to this day. The owner of MC and David fell out badly over this I don't really know much more than that. Most of the quality members of Mc have left now anyway to be honest.

Ain't that right D?  

sorry to invade your thread again bro. Lemme know how its goin. peace.


----------



## redspy (May 24, 2005)

How's it going YD?


----------



## Mags (May 25, 2005)

I think everyone in here needs to have one big hug,ha. Thought we were tuned into an episode of Trisha, ha. I guess everyone has their opinion, just strange how it can flare up into such a bitching handbag bust up. Hopefully now everyones chilled out abit. Anyway D, hope the shots are easier. Glad you feel that the juice is starting to kick in now, the fun part begins! How you getting on with ya Dbol (they the pink pentagon shaped ones?), hope they're doing their bit. You getting much of a puffy/bloated look yet? Keep training, eating and juicing and hopefully you'll be a monster in 10 weeks! Bosh!


----------



## tryintogetbig (May 25, 2005)

Young D have you given up on the journal????????????????????????????????


----------



## kingprop (May 25, 2005)

Sorry to hijack the thread. Just wanted to put my point across reference MC and Steve shutting me down (Im david btw)
The truth is he wanted to not only charge for the source list (my list actually) but he also insisted on the mods deleting any threads that would take away business from his sponsors (Extreme, animal paks) He is relying on a google ranking to entice newbies to buy that crap at inflated prices. I objected strongly, he banned me and shut the site down he sold me (He set it up and kept a back door) 
It was him that mailed my members with the scammer alert. Don't know how I can scam as I dont sell anything.

MC has now bit the dust anyways..

Sorry again all. Good luck YD.


----------



## Tom84 (May 26, 2005)

Sorry Si gonna hijack your thread again. Yeah I know steve deleted alot of threads where I told ppl these products were overpriced I got banned for a pm where I basically said that Steve knew nothing about AAS to Si (Young D), (Godfather on MC). When he tried to charge for the sourcing section that was ridiculous and gary tried to cover it up for him saying that the measure was never intended to make money yeah right. I dont know how he expected ppl to seriously buy that u were a scammer. Cant stand the guy. His site is shite. 
Anyway sorry Si hows it goin bro.


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## Tha Don (May 26, 2005)

The Grafter said:
			
		

> Good luck with your cycle bro, I know you've done loads of research so ignore the pricks on here who are trying to make you doubt yourself.


thanks for coming over here bro, i'll c u down hoofers get ready to watch me blow up!


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## Tha Don (May 26, 2005)

tryintogetbig said:
			
		

> Young D have you given up on the journal????????????????????????????????


hell no! the journal is gonna keep running no matter what, just wanted to let things cool down a bit


----------



## Tha Don (May 26, 2005)

kingprop said:
			
		

> Sorry to hijack the thread. Just wanted to put my point across reference MC and Steve shutting me down (Im david btw)
> The truth is he wanted to not only charge for the source list (my list actually) but he also insisted on the mods deleting any threads that would take away business from his sponsors (Extreme, animal paks) He is relying on a google ranking to entice newbies to buy that crap at inflated prices. I objected strongly, he banned me and shut the site down he sold me (He set it up and kept a back door)
> It was him that mailed my members with the scammer alert. Don't know how I can scam as I dont sell anything.
> 
> ...


no problem David, similar sort of thing happened to me on that site, i was made moderator shortly after you left and the site got a bit of a make-over, i made a real contribution to that site, only to get insulted by garry (and chums) and then booted and banned by steve, the site did actually pick up after he made me mod, i bought over 5-6 guys from here and muscletalk, no suprise to see the place is dead again now!

that place was all about arse kissing, everyone on there sucks up to garry and steve, if you don't give them any sucky-sucky they won't like you, they feel that because they are 'older' they expect all of the younger guys to respect them, but i wasn't down with that, in fact i didn't have much respect for them at all because they knew jack all about BBing or AS (Tom remember the 17aa thread?  ), also i knew there was a MC source list, but i got plenty of PM's for sources and i would recommend them to sources of my own, so i doubt they liked that! and 'thebigskev', a fat newbie being made a mod after 3 months of training??? HAHAHA! i'm real happy i'm no longer associated with that place!

anyways thanks for clearing things up David


----------



## Tha Don (May 26, 2005)

redspy said:
			
		

> How's it going YD?


yeah, i think the dbol is starting to kick in, fair bit of water retention on me now, but its managable, i seem to be waking up heavier everyday! its pretty crazy! i've been napping/sleeping a lot during the day... my sleep is all over the place right now prob ain't helping, but i'm trying to get back on schedule, could it be the dbol is making me lethargic?

diet has been a little poor, over the last week (just skipping/delaying the odd meal here n' there), i'm definately going to start eating big from now on

yesterday was lats/traps/f.arms and all i can say is my rows were awesome! i've been pushing out around the 8x80kg mark lately but yesterday i just kept putting weight on and got up to 6x95kg (last couple i forced out a bit), but it felt great! my strength has been down ever since my cutting nightmare, i'm still a bit off what i was lifting on 1-ad but i reckon over the next week i'm gonna be back up to those sorts of numbers

injections are going fine, i actually quite look forward to them now, get a bit of a buzz out of it, and this is coming from a guy that was scared shitless about the thought of jabbing himself before this! but i think i'm truely over my needle phobia, still rotating L-R glute and its going fine, plenty of room back there, and no soreness/discomfort at all now, i found massaging the site right after shooting really helps!

so its going pretty good so far, i just want to get my diet sorted, and get a bit more focused in the gym, i've had a few personal issues to deal with over the past couple of weeks but they seem to be out the way now and i'm excited again about the cycle and being a good 20lbs heavier in 3 months time


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## Tom84 (May 26, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> that place was all about arse kissing, everyone on there sucks up to garry and steve, if you don't give them any sucky-sucky they won't like you, they feel that because they are 'older' they expect all of the younger guys to respect them, but i wasn't down with that, in fact i didn't have much respect for them at all because they knew jack all about BBing or AS (Tom remember the 17aa thread?  ), also i knew there was a MC source list, but i got plenty of PM's for sources and i would recommend them to sources of my own, so i doubt they liked that! and 'thebigskev', a fat newbie being made a mod after 3 months of training??? HAHAHA! i'm real happy i'm no longer associated with that place!



That thread was ridiculous couldnt agree more with everything u said. Mods didnt know what a 17aa was it was quite depressing. I signed in through my mates user name the other day and gary has managed to argue with someone else and get them to stop posting. Place is so quiet ah well what a shame  

One of the mods didnt know what pct was and also posted could he make gains with dbol and 100g a day protein. 

Glad to hear u consider your personal issues over bro 'Fuck her' is the best attitude u wanna adopt right now. Glad to hear its goin well starting SD yday fucking mental forearm pumps in the gym today was ridiculous.


----------



## Tha Don (May 27, 2005)

*Day 9 - 25/05/05*

yes! its started..

i can really feel the dbol starting to kick in now, this morning i've just checked the scales and i am another pound up! (i seem to be gaining roughly a pound a day right now!), its took a lil while, but after 9 days the dbol is really starting to make its presence

apart from the weight gain and obvious bloat/puffiness, i've also noticed quite a bit of lethargy (which i'm told will subside after a couple of weeks), i'm getting pretty bad sweats at times (overnight was quite bad but i'm leaving the window open and the covers off so i stay quite cool when i'm sleeping), i also woke up today with really oily skin, i touched my nose n' it felt like someone has rubbed oil over my face... it was greasy as hell! my mood is up already (just because i now know my shit ain't fake this time!)

today will be my 1st workout of the 2nd week (delts, bis, tris), and i'm very excited!


----------



## Tha Don (May 27, 2005)

*workout*

todays' workout was good, best workout i've had in a long time! strength was up slightly, i felt pretty invincible (like i could lift all day), VERY noticable pumps - after the workout i went to the sinks to splash some water on my face and cool down, and really struggled to wash, my arms were so pumped i couldn't move them properly, highlight lifts:
military press: 6x65kg (up from 6x60kg)
barbell curl: 8x40kg
CG bench: 6x90kg (up from 6x80kg)  i was grunting these out, it was funny that the 2 guys i was benchin with doing regular bench were my sort of size yet they very benching around 60kg, and i'm close gripping 90.. nice lil ego boost!

i've upped my cals a little bit more, i'd say over the first week i was around the maintenance mark, maybe very slightly above when i didn't skip/delay any meals, but now i'm trying to get a 7th meal in, and eating more potatos and solid protein sources (even more fish and chicken!) instead of relying so much on shakes

working again tonight, more money into my piggybank , its all good right now, my mood has gone from been totally depressed and anxious (over the first week of this cycle... due to the fakes, the ex gf stressing me, and the fact that i was so pissed off about losing so much strength and LBM on that 3 week cut) to being excited and very optimistic! so i'm happy with how things are going right now, i'll try and post some weight changes up over the next few days, so you guys can see just what is going on! i'm adding roughly a pound a day right now, no shit! its insane!


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## Du (May 27, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> todays' workout was good, best workout i've had in a long time! strength was up slightly, i felt pretty invincible (like i could lift all day), VERY noticable pumps - after the workout i went to the sinks to splash some water on my face and cool down, and really struggled to wash, my arms were so pumped i couldn't move them properly
> 
> my mood has gone from been totally depressed and anxious (over the first week of this cycle..........to being excited and very optimistic! so i'm happy with how things are going right now, i'll try and post some weight changes up over the next few days, so you guys can see just what is going on! i'm adding roughly a pound a day right now, no shit! its insane!


Youre makin me wanna start my cycle now boss. Good to hear its treatin ya well... keep it up.


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## redspy (May 27, 2005)

Good deal Young D.  Glad this cycle is really kicking off well for you.


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## Tha Don (May 27, 2005)

thanks for the encouragement guys


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## Tha Don (May 28, 2005)

*Day 10 - 28/05/05*

another day, another dollar..

today was legs, workout went well considering my legs were pretty tired from last night, key lifts:
squats: 8x90kg (up from 10x80kg)
calf raises: 35x35kg

weight was up again this morning, only about by half a pound today but that isn't bad considering i was working (instead of resting) last night, and slept in all morning

dbol bloat is getting pretty bad, i'm not sure if i could put up with it worsening, i looked pretty bad at work last night, i was aware that my face was pretty puffed up so it didn't help my confidence, which needs to be sky high for this sort of job, i might have to consider running some letro or nolva if the condition continues to worsen, i'm paid to talk to women, but i can't talk to any women right now looking as fat-faced as this


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## Tom84 (May 29, 2005)

Dont worry too much about the bloat bro its only noticeable to you. Good to hear your gains whats the total change in weight so far. 

anywayz looks like its goingreat keep it up mate


----------



## Du (May 29, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> another day, another dollar..
> 
> today was legs, workout went well considering my legs were pretty tired from last night, key lifts:
> squats: 8x90kg (up from 10x80kg)
> ...


Hey boss, 

Lifts lookin solid. The bloat is to be expected with a dbol cycle. Nolva wouldnt do you much good against bloat; its a SERM. Arimidex of Femara would help you very much against the bloat though, as they are AI's. Id suggest that, at least until you get the bloat down.

Cycle is lookin good though, keep it up.


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## Tha Don (May 29, 2005)

*Day 11 - 29/05/05*

today was rest/injection day, the jab didn't go too great, shattered the top of the amp in my hand and got several pieces of glass stuck in my thumb and finger, wasn't nice took me a bit of time to get them out, lot of blood, had to plaster things up and as glass had fallen into the bottom of the amp i decided to chuck it out, thats 3 amps i've lost so far! i guess the more i open the better i will get, but it really stressed me out today, the actual jab didn't go to good, i was just tense and shakey instead of steady and relaxed, blood rushed out and dripped on my bathroom floor, then without even knowing it had dripped on the floor i put my foot in it and got it on my socks, then i tredded it all round my flat, not good!   i don't think i like injections anymore  

weighed myself today at 194.4lbs/88.2kg and 15% BF, last sunday morning i was 189.6lbs/86kg and 14.5% BF, so added almoast 5lbs last week, which is nice

its hard to accurately say how much weight i have added so far on this cycle, due to the fact i was on the s1+ when i started, but when i started the s1+ (a week before i started the AS) i was 183.6lbs/83.3kg, and now i'm 194.4lbs/88.2kg, so if you assume that i would have been around the 184lbs mark when i started the AS without the water from the s1+ you are looking at roughly 10lbs so far

so 10lbs in 11 days ain't bad, although most of that is going to be water, i'm more concerned with the weight changes from now on


----------



## Tha Don (May 29, 2005)

du510 said:
			
		

> Arimidex of Femara would help you very much against the bloat though, as they are AI's. Id suggest that, at least until you get the bloat down.


yes i'm thinking about running a low dose of femara, my pills are 2.5mg, so i was thinking about splitting them into 4, and running roughly 0.625mg EOD, or could i just say take half a tab the day before work to drop water? i think i remember pirate saying he took some femara after a gyno scare and didn't stop pissing all night, so if its fast acting maybe that would work?


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## tryintogetbig (May 29, 2005)

you look fine int he picture, we are, are own worst critics, the bloat isn't bad. Sorry to hear about the broken amp. 

Keep the calories up and lift hard


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## Cardinal (May 29, 2005)

Sorry to make fun, but I can't see how you are breaking so many amps.    Are these HCG amps?  Then it would make sense.  I have popped the top on quite a fair number of AAS oil bottles and never had the slightest problem.  It seems like there would be a better way to score the HCG amps.  Shouldn't be so physically dangerous opening them!


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## Tha Don (May 30, 2005)

Cardinal said:
			
		

> Sorry to make fun, but I can't see how you are breaking so many amps.    Are these HCG amps?  Then it would make sense.  I have popped the top on quite a fair number of AAS oil bottles and never had the slightest problem.  It seems like there would be a better way to score the HCG amps.  Shouldn't be so physically dangerous opening them!


no they are test amps, i was trying to use scissors at first to cut off the tops, that was a poor method, cost me 2 amps, i've had much better luck so far with snapping them off but i think putting too much pressure on the top yesterday (gripping too hard with my thumb and finger) caused it to shatter, in future i'll be putting a cloth/towel over my hand just incase it shatters like that again, but i think i'm starting to get the knack of it, i hear biro lids work well, maybe i'll give that a shot next time if i'm still having problems


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## Tha Don (May 30, 2005)

tryintogetbig said:
			
		

> you look fine int he picture, we are, are own worst critics, the bloat isn't bad. Sorry to hear about the broken amp.
> 
> Keep the calories up and lift hard


thanks, i'm upping the cals slightly futher this week, back into bulking teritory now


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## Pirate! (May 30, 2005)

Glad to hear things are going well. I broke 1 out of 20 sustanon amps, and I think that is because I heated it too much before popping the top. I always use an amp opener, though. Some people use a plastic pin cap. Just make sure you are holding--not squeezing--the bottom. I think 1/4 of a letro pill the night before work is a good call. The few times I used it, I pissed out 3 pounds of water over night (I always weigh myself first thing in the morning after pissing, so I know my measurements were accurate). 

D-bol made me, Luke, and another friend of mine lethargic and sleep more. No question about it. However, some don't get that effect and simply don't believe that anyone else does. The lethargy isn't much--you don't really lose motivation but feel like napping during the day. I went from 7.5 hours of sleep a night to 9.5 while on d-bol, then back to 7.5 after the dbol phase was done.


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## Tha Don (May 31, 2005)

PirateFromHell said:
			
		

> Glad to hear things are going well. I broke 1 out of 20 sustanon amps, and I think that is because I heated it too much before popping the top. I always use an amp opener, though. Some people use a plastic pin cap. Just make sure you are holding--not squeezing--the bottom. I think 1/4 of a letro pill the night before work is a good call. The few times I used it, I pissed out 3 pounds of water over night (I always weigh myself first thing in the morning after pissing, so I know my measurements were accurate).
> 
> D-bol made me, Luke, and another friend of mine lethargic and sleep more. No question about it. However, some don't get that effect and simply don't believe that anyone else does. The lethargy isn't much--you don't really lose motivation but feel like napping during the day. I went from 7.5 hours of sleep a night to 9.5 while on d-bol, then back to 7.5 after the dbol phase was done.


yeah totally feel you on the sleep issue, i'm experiencing a lot of lethargy and tiredness, i'm still pretty motivated, just like to put my head down before i go and do anything lol

the amp opening has proved to be a real problem so far, i've got 1 amp left (i broke 3 and the rest of my stash is at home, of course i'm not going home for another 2 weeks, so i've got some more on the way), if i break this amp tomorrow that means i won't be able to jab, so i'm pretty nervous about opening it, i'm just gonna score around the whole neck for about 5 mins, put a t-shirt over my hand and hope for the best! might try the biro lid actually if i can find one somewhere

in regards to the letro i might take 1/4 pill tomorrow, then again on friday, i wouldn't want to drop water thurs night and then have it come back on me by friday evening, hence i'd rather take a dose on friday, so maybe i'll do weds and fri or even thurs and fri, to try and drop as much water as possible, i'll also run taraxatone on thrus and fri (3 caps thurs, 6 caps fri) to try and lose some more water from that, hopefully this fri i'll be looking much leaner

have any of you tried proviron before? apparently its good at preventing bloat i don't know all that much about it, as i already have the letro i'll prob stick with that, but it might be something to consider in the future?

my arse is still sore from that shot on sunday (not the muscle, but the actual spot where i jabbed), feels like i took a shot from lennox, proper bruised feeling, i think it is because when i put the needle in and was ready to push the plunger down and inject the oil i couldn't get a good grasp on the end with my hand, it was at an awkward position, so i tried to rotate the needle while it was inside me... BAD IDEA! like i said the bleeding was ridiculous after that shot, the shot seemed to go great, just a lot of blood and very sore afterwards, so it must be down to that, i've learnt my lesson and i certainly won't be doing that again


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## Tha Don (May 31, 2005)

*Day 13 - 30/05/05*

today was chest day, workout was good, best workout i've had in a while, felt pretty agressive and ready to hit the weights hard, and i did! key lifts:
bench press: 6x105kg (up from 8x100kg)
incline d/b press: 10x35kg (up from 8x35kg)
flys: 9x25kg (up from 8x25kg)


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## Tha Don (May 31, 2005)

*Day 14 - 31/05/05*

lats and traps today, i got down the gym late and was pretty rushed, went out last night to a big end of term party at this club so i've been feeling very tired today, almoast put the workout off but decided to get my arse to the gym and get it over with, key lifts:
pull ups: 7xBW
bent over rows: 8x80kg
shrugs: 12x165kg (up from 12x157.5kg) still need some straps!


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## Flex (May 31, 2005)

Young DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, what up, kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiid?!?
I haven't been on IM too much lately, but i just read your entire journal, and i figured i'd add my .02.

So first off, I gotta say to all you fuckin haters who've posted in this journal, leave this kid the fuck alone. It's HIS journal, it's HIS body, it's HIS choice to do steroids as he pleases. If you don't have anything positive to say or contribute, then stay out.

With that outta the way, Welcome to the Darkside of the Juice, Young D-baller







I'd like to address a few issues that you seem to be havin', maybe i can help you a bit.

Breakin' the amps:
Wasting steroids is like burning money, you DON'T want it to happen haha. You most def. gotta get one of those plastic amp openers (i don't know what their real name is), but that'll solve your breaking problems. If you can't find 'em, i'll ask my boy where he orders 'em from, they gotta be cheap as dirt.

Lethargy:
You will def. experience lotsa lethargy, bro, and it's nothing to be scared of. Think about it, your body is gonna go through growth spurts like it has never done before, even in puberty. That's why when your on steroids, your body requires more of everything...food cals, water, protein, and ESP. sleep. Dude, i nap practically everyday as it is, and when i was on cycle, it became a must. So expect it, bro, and just think of it as a positive sign that you're growing.

The juice itself:
Glad to see your dbols are finally kickn' in. What kind were they again? 
IMO you shoulda been feelin' 'em within the first few days. I mean shit, i felt them within the first HOURS of takin' them.
You'll def. know when the test kicks in. Once you start feelin' like a million bucks, and you wanna nail every chick with a heartbeat, you'll know you're on.

Food:
I CANT stress this enough. If you're trying to bulk, you gotta EAT EAT EAT! Even if it's not very clean, dude, you gotta EAT. Your body will not grow, ESP on steroids, without the proper cals. 

Shots:
Nervous, huh? haha, don't worry, it's completely normal. 
Glute shots are tough, bro. I'd suggest you throw some quads in their if you're not already doin' 'em. 
And MAKE SURE you aspirate. When doin' glutes, stand in front of the bathroom mirror if you have to to help. If you're shootin' in your right cheek, hold the syringe with your left hand behind your back, and aspirate/plunge it with your right hand...and vice versa for the other cheek.

Well, I gotta get goin', and i rambled enough as it is, but i thought i'd add alittle insight for my man. I'll def. be keeping up with your journal from now on, and i hope everything goes well for ya. 

Keep your head up, and train and eat like you mean it!
Oh ya, and enjoy those killer pumps, bro. That's why pros become pros haha.

Keep pumpin,
FLEX


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## Tha Don (Jun 1, 2005)

FLEXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, its good to see you in here bro, lemme hit you back real quick




			
				Flex said:
			
		

> Breakin' the amps:
> Wasting steroids is like burning money, you DON'T want it to happen haha. You most def. gotta get one of those plastic amp openers (i don't know what their real name is), but that'll solve your breaking problems. If you can't find 'em, i'll ask my boy where he orders 'em from, they gotta be cheap as dirt.


already ordered 1 from GPz, should arrive real soon!




			
				Flex said:
			
		

> Lethargy:
> You will def. experience lotsa lethargy, bro, and it's nothing to be scared of. Think about it, your body is gonna go through growth spurts like it has never done before, even in puberty. That's why when your on steroids, your body requires more of everything...food cals, water, protein, and ESP. sleep. Dude, i nap practically everyday as it is, and when i was on cycle, it became a must. So expect it, bro, and just think of it as a positive sign that you're growing.


thats a nice way of puttin it, definately feel what you sayin




			
				Flex said:
			
		

> The juice itself:
> Glad to see your dbols are finally kickn' in. What kind were they again?
> IMO you shoulda been feelin' 'em within the first few days. I mean shit, i felt them within the first HOURS of takin' them.
> You'll def. know when the test kicks in. Once you start feelin' like a million bucks, and you wanna nail every chick with a heartbeat, you'll know you're on.


i'm on pink thais (BD) at the mo, i had to buy the russians from a guy in bosnia or somewhere, and they turned out to be fakes!! i'm just glad these are doing something! i'm tempted to try and get some real russians or naposims from a different guy and then test them out after 4 weeks of the thais for an extra 2 weeks (so run the 6 weeks of dbol, won't go over that) just to see if they work... if they do then great! i'll have a good kickstart for my next cycle (would be a bit of weight off my chest, i'm already worried that the same shit might happen next cycle!), if not then i'll be a little pissed at wasting my money but at least i won't really have lost anything, and dbols are cheap anyway, after all the real gains are gonna come from the test, so i'm not too down about it, but that has been a bit of a setback for me and i'm certainly going to be very careful from now on, TBH this guy looked dodgey from the start, if i have my suspicions then i won't buy




			
				Flex said:
			
		

> Food:
> I CANT stress this enough. If you're trying to bulk, you gotta EAT EAT EAT! Even if it's not very clean, dude, you gotta EAT. Your body will not grow, ESP on steroids, without the proper cals.


i hear ya, i'm really getting the food in now




			
				Flex said:
			
		

> Shots:
> Nervous, huh? haha, don't worry, it's completely normal.
> Glute shots are tough, bro. I'd suggest you throw some quads in their if you're not already doin' 'em.
> And MAKE SURE you aspirate. When doin' glutes, stand in front of the bathroom mirror if you have to to help. If you're shootin' in your right cheek, hold the syringe with your left hand behind your back, and aspirate/plunge it with your right hand...and vice versa for the other cheek.


yeah thats what i'm doin, i like glutes, pretty painless, i will try thighs soon, but i need to get some slightly smaller needles for those so i'll try and get some next time i go to the needle exchange (mine are 1.5inch 21g, really i need 1.25inch 23g for thighs, the needles i have are just way too big to be puttin in my legs! haha, unfortunately i'm a wimp when it comes to needles, i'm suprised i even managed to do a glute injection let alone 4 so far, so if i'm happy with glutes i think i'll stick with them)




			
				Flex said:
			
		

> Well, I gotta get goin', and i rambled enough as it is, but i thought i'd add alittle insight for my man. I'll def. be keeping up with your journal from now on, and i hope everything goes well for ya.
> 
> Keep your head up, and train and eat like you mean it!
> Oh ya, and enjoy those killer pumps, bro. That's why pros become pros haha.


yeah i look forward to them! and feelin like a cool 2 mill after each workout!


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## Tha Don (Jun 1, 2005)

*Day 15 - 01/06/05*

rest day today, just gonna try and get as much food in as possible and try and blow at least £60 at ASDA

i'm very nervous today about my shot, MUST NOT BREAK THE AMP! if i do then i'll have to wait until my stuff gets through (should arrive tomorrow, so i'll be jabbing a day late, but its still gonna be 3-4 days apart so it shouldn't matter too much)

my weight was really up this morning at 198lbs/89.8kg, i couldn't believe it! i'm up by 3.5lbs since sunday morning (thats over a pound a day i've added!) i had to weigh my self several times just to make sure it wasn't a fluke, i think that is actually the highest reading i've ever taken (i got up to around the 89kg mark on 1-ad), so i'm happy about that, although i know a LOT of it is water


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## tucker01 (Jun 1, 2005)

I think I have read somewhere about using the open end of a pen (opposite to the writing end, on the shitty BIC pens) to break the ends off the amps.  Just an FYI


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## Tha Don (Jun 1, 2005)

a couple progress of pics taken today (01/06/05) 2 weeks into my cycle at 198lbs, 15.5% BF


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## celt (Jun 1, 2005)

Good God man!!Your lookin great man!!!!!!!up a stone in 2 weeks?? Bet your cloths are feeling really tight and people are startin to notice? Great to hear things are workin for ya! Keep up the good work !


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## Tha Don (Jun 1, 2005)

celt said:
			
		

> Good God man!!Your lookin great man!!!!!!!up a stone in 2 weeks?? Bet your cloths are feeling really tight and people are startin to notice? Great to hear things are workin for ya! Keep up the good work !


thanks bro! i'm pretty much the same size i was at the end of my 1ad cycle right now, so everything more i put on is gonna be new terititory for me, and this time i'm not losing a pound of it afterwards! (no cutting during PCT this time   ) i'm chuffed at how much i've put on so far, i'm getting the odd comment, i think people saw me shrink after the 1ad and now to some people i'm just back up to a decent size, certainly over the next few weeks i should start to put on more and i'm sure people will start to notice that i'm getting a lot bigger, i'm really happy with my diet, still holding at 15.5% BF which is good, i wouldn't want to go any over 17%, if i did i would run some t3 towards the end to try and trim back down a little (being summer time n' all), thinking of running some OT, m1t or dbol over the last 4 weeks as well up to pct (depending on whether i'm cutting or still bulking)


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## tryintogetbig (Jun 1, 2005)

> thinking of running some OT, m1t or dbol over the last 4 weeks as well




are you sure?? im not one of the experts but the first 4 weeks of dbol are doing enough damage to your liver, then adding dbol or m1t again at the end, wouldn't this increase your chance of problems  

also i have slowly been planning on my first cycle which is quite  aways off, but it seems from reading post and journals most ppl on there first cycle complicate it to much, trying to add to many different things, trying to reinvent the wheel so to speak. Shouldn't you just keep it simple - cycle - dbol & test PCT - hcg novla. 

I could be all wrong though.


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## Tha Don (Jun 2, 2005)

tryintogetbig said:
			
		

> are you sure?? im not one of the experts but the first 4 weeks of dbol are doing enough damage to your liver, then adding dbol or m1t again at the end, wouldn't this increase your chance of problems
> 
> also i have slowly been planning on my first cycle which is quite  aways off, but it seems from reading post and journals most ppl on there first cycle complicate it to much, trying to add to many different things, trying to reinvent the wheel so to speak. Shouldn't you just keep it simple - cycle - dbol & test PCT - hcg novla.
> 
> I could be all wrong though.


i totally agree man, but i've heard some guys on other forums swear by it, its just an idea that i am looking into, i have plently of all 3 on hand and i wouldn't like to let all that dbol/m1t/OT go to waste! i'll decide closer to the time what i will do, but like i said right now i have no plans to run anything over the last 4 weeks, it is just something that i am considering


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## Tha Don (Jun 2, 2005)

*Day 16 - 02/06/05*

OMG the PAIN!!!!!!!!   

i've just had a delts, bis, tris workout, and my delts are totally killing me, i struggled with bis and tris because my delts were so sore (forearms also started hurting a bit too), my left shoulder is still really sore, although my right ain't too bad now, but damm, i knew i might get some strong pumps but not like this!! this is insane!!!! what can i do about this? i spent the whole workout in tears, really don't want to go through this again

i also noticed my shoulders were very tight after my chest workout, although my chest wasn't sore at all, just nicely pumped, think i might have a potential shoulder injury or something? or is it common for the shoulders to hurt more so than other body parts?


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## redspy (Jun 2, 2005)

Are you running creatine or NO supplements?  If this continues you should reduce the Dbol dosing as this is 
undoubtedly the cause of the painful pumps.


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## TheCurse (Jun 4, 2005)

hows about an update D?


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## Tha Don (Jun 5, 2005)

redspy said:
			
		

> Are you running creatine or NO supplements?  If this continues you should reduce the Dbol dosing as this is
> undoubtedly the cause of the painful pumps.


nope, no creatine and obviously no NO2

i'll see how i get on at 30mg this week, and if i'm still having probs i'll drop to 25mg, but so far i've only got the pain in my shoulders, not elsewhere, so maybe i should just drop the volume on my shoulders a little, or use a heavier weight but less reps? (i hear some people do this when on dbol as higher reps = stronger pumps), i've only got another couple of weeks on the dbol anyway so i might try n' stick it out at the dose i'm on

still feeling nothing from the test, i don't think its kicked in yet as i've not really experienced any libdo or mood change, felt like shit over the past couple of days (hence lack of updates), very lethargic, my eating has been okay but i think i have room for improvement, relying a little bit too heavily on shakes (i just can't be bothered to cook, as bad as that sounds), i will get my arse to the supermarket tomorrow and stock up, been goin out clubbing for the last 2 nights, sleep is all over the place probably ain't helping with my gains, so i'll try and get that sorted, weight is still around the 198lbs mark, but i have been running letrozole and diuretics over the past few days, stopped them today, so hopefully i will wake up a little heavier tomorrow


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## tryintogetbig (Jun 7, 2005)

YD where you at    Hope all is well!

hows it going so far????


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## redspy (Jun 8, 2005)

Feeling the test yet, bro?


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## Tha Don (Jun 9, 2005)

redspy said:
			
		

> Feeling the test yet, bro?


no, not yet, just started the 4th week, so i'm hoping that i will be feeling it by the end of this week! deff. feeling the dbols, pumps are very intense and i'm feeling pretty strong, my lifts are not up THAT much, but i'm managing the weights a lot easier and comfortably getting out an extra 2-3 reps/5kg on all my key lifts

i must confess that i have only added a pathetic 1lb over the last week  actually my weight dipped down by a pound over the weekend, and i put on a couple of pounds over the last few days, bit dissapointing, i can only think that it is down to a whole combination of the following factors...
not enough food
not enough rest
not enough sleep
too many extra late nights (like going out partying till the early hours)
stress from my exams
stress from my ex girl (got in a big fight with her on monday, she has really screwed my head up lately, n' now i'm getting phone calls telling me to watch my back, and that i'm gonna get shot, etc... can't be helping)
diuretics
letrozole
dropped the s1+ 2 days ago

well the last week has been a real wake up call! i'm really trying hard to get things on track right now, i've increased the cals, i'm not gonna run anymore letro/diuretics, ignoring the ex gf, cut out the partying, my exams are over, and i'm now focusing 110% on my training and diet, i was 199.2lbs this morning, hopefully in a weeks time i will be well over that 200lbs mark, i'd like to try and get upto 210 before i drop the dbol, but i'm starting to think 205 would be more realistic, as i have 2 weeks left on the dbol (if i run for 5 weeks, but might run a 6th, i'll see where i'm at and what effects i'm getting from the test on the 5th week, and take it from there)


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## Tha Don (Jun 9, 2005)

*i need FOOD! NOW!!!*

wow, i don't know if i'm just having one of them days or if this is somehow related to the sauce, but i trained delts/abs this evening, necked a PWO shake, got home and i was feeling pretty bloated and not at all hungry, so i rested for a bit before starting dinner, which was a jacket potato, chicken breast, a little tomatos, chease, onions and other goodies... anyways i took my time cooking it, and i realised that i'd finished my workout almoast 2 hours ago so i better get eating, but still wasn't that hungry so i thought i'd take a shower before eating.... as soon as i got out of the shower i started shaking and feeling jittery and i was totally ravenous, i ate my dinner, the whole plate disappeared in 2 mins flat! then i was still starvin, so i grabbed a muller rice and that went in seconds, then grabbed an apple, then a protein shake... i couldn't seem to stop eating, i was full but still hungry

an hour later i went into hunger mode again, this time a plate of rice, can of tuna, pitta bread, and a couple of handfuls of nuts, and this is only an hour after my last meal

well that was 30mins ago, and i still feel hungry, next meal will be my final meal which i'm gonna eat very soon! then its bed

after all this food you know i just had to jump on the scales to see where my weight was at, and i'm up to 205.4lbs!! (obviously this is only an evening reading... all logged readings i take first thing in the morning on empty stomach for consistancy reasons) but i was really shocked, my last evening reading a couple of nights ago was about 202lbs, i was expecting maybe something similar, maybe 203 if i'm lucky but not 205! 

anyways that has definately given me a boost, i know its back on now!

i'm hoping this hunger surge might be something to do with the test making its presence, or it could just be the fact that i left too long of a gap from my workout till my post workout meal, or maybe a combo of the 2, but if my hunger stays like this i'll have no trouble getting the food in from now on


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## motopsyko32 (Jun 9, 2005)

curiosity question,  why the HCG during your cycle instead of post cycle?  I mean it will make your body to turn the test on again, but once your done, your test levels are going to drop again and you will need the HCG then.


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## soxmuscle (Jun 9, 2005)

On the sauce, thats what you got to do.  Just eat, eat, eat, and eat again.  I remember PP eating an entire large pizza pie and then going home and eating a ton more.  Keep it up.


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## motopsyko32 (Jun 9, 2005)

yes but try to eat somewhat clean.  Pizza isnt any good on cycle!


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## soxmuscle (Jun 9, 2005)

motopsyko32 said:
			
		

> yes but try to eat somewhat clean. Pizza isnt any good on cycle!


Well when your trying to grow and your eating 6500-7000 calories per day, its tough to eat entirely clean, when you can take care of a third of your cals for that day by eating a pizza pie.

Just saying.


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## motopsyko32 (Jun 9, 2005)

i used to go to the local cuban joint called Sergio's and eat 2 flank steaks and a 6 oz chicken breast for lunch for almost my entire cycle..

it is expensive though


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## Tha Don (Jun 10, 2005)

YEAH! woke up at 202lbs this morning!  and i'm still at 15.5% BF  

however i only got about 5 hours sleep last night, had some major indigestion after all that eating, and was extremely hot and restless (i think a case of the dbol sweats too), also got work tonight, totally not in the mood, want to sleep but the show must go on, training bi and tris in an hour, i'll try and get a nap in after that

i'm looking noticably bigger now, still not big but i'd say i'm looking a decent size, put on 18lbs so far, another 18lbs to go, so i'm half way to my target already! i'm just delighted that i have experienced no serious side effects yet and have managed to keep my BF% stable

the sauce is definately sweet enough


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## motopsyko32 (Jun 10, 2005)

just try to maintian it after your done.  Try to keep at least 80% of your gains


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## Mags (Jun 10, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> Well when your trying to grow and your eating 6500-7000 calories per day, its tough to eat entirely clean, when you can take care of a third of your cals for that day by eating a pizza pie.
> 
> Just saying.


True. No matter how much you try to eat 100% clean, to knock back sick amounts of calories, at times you just gotta grab whatevers around, quick and easy.


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## Mags (Jun 10, 2005)

motopsyko32 said:
			
		

> curiosity question, why the HCG during your cycle instead of post cycle? I mean it will make your body to turn the test on again, but once your done, your test levels are going to drop again and you will need the HCG then.


Haha, is this guy trying to be me? I think the last thing D wants is another HCG dispute taking up endless posts in his journal. I think D decided to run it during the cycle to sustain his own natural test levels from the suppressive activity of the AS. Kind of stopping the problem before it occurs. Besides, it cant be fun feeling ya bollox shrinking, mine are already small enough,ha.


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## Mags (Jun 10, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> not enough food
> not enough rest
> not enough sleep
> too many extra late nights (like going out partying till the early hours)
> ...


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## motopsyko32 (Jun 10, 2005)

Mags said:
			
		

> Haha, is this guy trying to be me? I think the last thing D wants is another HCG dispute taking up endless posts in his journal. I think D decided to run it during the cycle to sustain his own natural test levels from the suppressive activity of the AS. Kind of stopping the problem before it occurs. Besides, it cant be fun feeling ya bollox shrinking, mine are already small enough,ha.


im going through therapy for hypogonadism.  i took 10000iu of HCG starting 5 days after my last shot og test and deca... I ran it for 3000 every 5 days and 1000 my last day, well what they didnt inform me was that deca takes about 3 montsh to get outta your system so basically I wasted the HCG and now (2 years later) My Dr put me on a 12 week cycle of HCG and my test levels went from 247 to over 400.  I am no longer on the HCG but I am still visiting the Endocrinologist every month or so for bloodwork and maintenance


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## Stu (Jun 10, 2005)

motopsyko32 said:
			
		

> im going through therapy for hypogonadism. i took 10000iu of HCG starting 5 days after my last shot og test and deca... I ran it for 3000 every 5 days and 1000 my last day, well what they didnt inform me was that deca takes about 3 montsh to get outta your system so basically I wasted the HCG and now (2 years later) My Dr put me on a 12 week cycle of HCG and my test levels went from 247 to over 400. I am no longer on the HCG but I am still visiting the Endocrinologist every month or so for bloodwork and maintenance


 well im guessing that Young D has done his research and therefore won't be shooting 3000IU in a day.


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## motopsyko32 (Jun 10, 2005)

i did my research on how to shoot it and my research said 10000 IU and split it up 3000 iu every 5 days with 1000 ius on the last day.  This is the first i hear that it was the wrong way to do it...


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## Stu (Jun 11, 2005)

motopsyko32 said:
			
		

> i did my research on how to shoot it and my research said 10000 IU and split it up 3000 iu every 5 days with 1000 ius on the last day. This is the first i hear that it was the wrong way to do it...


 You may find this article interesting - swales hCG advice

 I'm not saying what you did was wrong but i think 3000iu at once is probably too much.


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## Mags (Jun 11, 2005)

motopsyko32 said:
			
		

> i did my research on how to shoot it and my research said 10000 IU and split it up 3000 iu every 5 days with 1000 ius on the last day. This is the first i hear that it was the wrong way to do it...


Dont know too much of your situation, but for people getting off the gear (maybe this only applies to beginners and what AS you take) but I've only ever read about taking 500ius every 5 days (Ive read many posts/articles on HCG and had many disputes with other guys on here about this bloomin' subject). I thought 3000iu would be too much, maybe even suppressive itself at high doses for 12 weeks. As I said though, Im not totally sure, just passing on what Ive read etc.


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## Mags (Jun 11, 2005)

Anyway, please can we get away from the HCG thing now, this aint the place to talk on and on about this topic. So D, hows you getting on now? You finishing the Dbol this week lad?


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## Tha Don (Jun 11, 2005)

Mags said:
			
		

> Anyway, please can we get away from the HCG thing now, this aint the place to talk on and on about this topic.


  



			
				Mags said:
			
		

> So D, hows you getting on now? You finishing the Dbol this week lad?


the cycle is going awesome, i'm feeling possibly bigger than ever right now, at a mega 203lbs! (and i'm only 3.5 weeks in), i'd say i've got back all of what i lost from my 1ad cycle (weight is a little higher because of the extra water i think), now i'm starting to go into new territory in terms of size, so this is where it starts to get really exciting for me!

strength has not gone up quite as much as i'd maybe hoped, you hear about some guys adding 20, 30, sometimes even 50+ lbs to their major lifts on a cycle! so far my major lifts are up no more than 5kg/10lbs, but its early days yet and its only really last week that i really started to feel things

i'm planning on staying on the dbol for another week, maybe 2, so i'll either be 4.5 weeks or 5.5 weeks, as i started my cycle on a wednesday, i'd like to end it on a sat/sun at the end of the week you know, i'll prob do the same with the test, run it 10.5 weeks so i can schedule my pct to start around the sun/mon

i had a bit of a gyno scare this morning (sore, lumpy left nipple), so i took 140mg tamoxifen and 1.25mg letrozole, hopefully symptoms will subside over the next couple of days


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## soxmuscle (Jun 11, 2005)

You really should focus on upping them calories.  Keep it up, and eat, eat, eat.


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## Tha Don (Jun 12, 2005)

well that nolva+letro seems to have stopped the gyno in its tracks, no developments in the symptoms today, i'll start running 80mg (which according to PFH's intellegence should work out around 48mg tamoxifen) a day, and hopefully it will have totally cleared in a few days time, i'm not sure whether i should run a maintenance dose or not? maybe some low such as 20(12)mg EOD will keep it at bay, or ED until i'm off the dbol then EOD when i'm test only, i woke up a bit lighter today at 202lbs and dropped to 15% BF, which i assume is due to water loss from the nolva/letro, although my face still looks bloated as hell


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## Mags (Jun 12, 2005)

I think the bloat is one of the things Im not looking forward to when I finally pull my thumb out and get on my cycle, don't want it to look too obvious Im on something (although I guess that most will just think Im got a bit fatter etc,ha) but Im sure its just paranoia and isn't as bad as we think (unless you're banging super doses i imagine). I thought you'd further the use of Dbol, I think I'll be the same. Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about the lifts increasing at the mo, just be patient and careful and they'll come. As for adding 50lbs to various lifts, again that must be based on the specifics of the drugs, dose and individual. Don't go shit crazy with pushing up your lifts before you're really ready as I read (sorry to sound like your dad lecturing as you've probably read up more stuff than me) that test weakens connective tissue slightly. Hope the gyno stops and doesnt cause anymore trouble. Keep up the good work lad and i'l be reading on!


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## Tha Don (Jun 12, 2005)

Mags said:
			
		

> I think the bloat is one of the things Im not looking forward to when I finally pull my thumb out and get on my cycle, don't want it to look too obvious Im on something (although I guess that most will just think Im got a bit fatter etc,ha) but Im sure its just paranoia and isn't as bad as we think (unless you're banging super doses i imagine). I thought you'd further the use of Dbol, I think I'll be the same. Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about the lifts increasing at the mo, just be patient and careful and they'll come. As for adding 50lbs to various lifts, again that must be based on the specifics of the drugs, dose and individual. Don't go shit crazy with pushing up your lifts before you're really ready as I read (sorry to sound like your dad lecturing as you've probably read up more stuff than me) that test weakens connective tissue slightly. Hope the gyno stops and doesnt cause anymore trouble. Keep up the good work lad and i'l be reading on!



yeah the bloat sucks but i guess you just gotta put up with it, it should go down a little once i get off the dbol, looking back on things maybe i should of run some proviron on this cycle, but its too late now, and the bloat does make you look/feel bigger, so i guess its not all bad

i've just measured my arms and they are just shy of 16inches! they are looking real good, still lean but quite a bit thicker, real happy with em, they were just over 15 when i started the cycle, so i've probably added around 3/4 of an inch on them so far, i think i'm gonna aim to get them up to 17's by the end of the cycle, gee, that would be nice for a skinny dude like myself


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## Mags (Jun 12, 2005)

17 would be a good size, just ensure its not just water helping with that extra half inch to fill those t shirt sleeves. My arms never used to grow till I trained them together then they got to a good 16 inches cold(and im pretty lean, with good definition too). Then I had my injuries (wrist sprain then car crash) and didn't even look at a weight for 8 weeks. Didnt keep up my caloric intake either so have dropped to 13st in 2 months.Shit! I wanna get back up to just over 200lbs where i was before then start on my first cycle so i'll probably be back in here pesting ya for advice. Keep up the good work g.


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## celt (Jun 16, 2005)

Glad to here things are goin well for ya.  Any negative sides yet except the gyno scare?


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## Tha Don (Jun 16, 2005)

celt said:
			
		

> Glad to here things are goin well for ya.  Any negative sides yet except the gyno scare?


no, no major side effects yet, no shrinkage, acne, aggression or anything, only side effects so far was that gyno scare last weekend, and really bad lethargy which i'm still getting, this is why i don't think the test is doing a lot yet but hopefully i'll start feeling it soon, also i've had troubles sleeping the past couple of nights, i seem tired during the day and really alert and focused at night, its pretty messed up, i can only think its do do with taking the dbol during the day, i'm gonna try 10mg before bed and hopefully that will fix things, planning on running the dbol for its final week this week (so 5 weeks total), also got some sdrol today which i'm thinking of running over the last 3-4 weeks of the cycle, and i'm thinking about extending the cycle an extra couple of weeks so my body gets a good month off the orals

workouts are going good, added a good 10kg now to my major lifts (bench, rows, squats, deads), although i had to cut my back workout short on tues due to getting down the gym late again which i'm pissed off about, my chest is still aching from monday more than my lats are

been hammering in the food lately, really eating my arse off, gonna hit shoulders and abs today, haven't trained my abs hard for ages, i'm always worried about my abs getting too big and losing that thin waistline, but i'm losing them so i'm gonna hit them hard today, and i also plan on doing my first session of cardio for a month at the end of this workout, had my blood pressure checked the other day and apparently it is pretty high (right on the top end of the healthy zone, it was well below that when i started), hopefully a little cv will also help with the lethargy and give me a mental lift, as i normally feel great for doing it, i'm gonna try and run at least 1-2 times a week from now on for the rest of the cycle, just to keep healthy and keep the fat off as i start to transist to a see food diet


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## soxmuscle (Jun 16, 2005)

good to hear your eating a ton now.  you got to eat big to get big, keep it up.


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## Flex (Jun 16, 2005)

Yo D, what's up my man!

Just finished reading from where I left off, and things seem like they're going pretty well. I just have a few comments that may help ya...

First, i've said it before, and i'll say it again along with everyone else...EAT, bro. The reason you're on a cycle is to add mass. If you don't eat, you're not capatalizing on having those hormones in your body.

Secondly, make sure you're getting enough sleep. I know you have work, school, girlfriend etc., but you hafta be SURE you're giving your body recuperation time. That's when you grow, playa, and it's not different when  you're on juice. 

Thirdly, the reason your shoulders burn so badly when training is most likely b/c you're overusing them. In other words, when you're benching, you're probably pushing mostly with your delts, and not squeezing your chest like you should be doing. Same thing on like biceps curls and everything else....thus you gotta make sure you're just squeezin', peakin contracting, and fighting the negative. THATS how you train correctly. So lower those weights, don't let the weights battle with your ego, esp. on the juice, cuz you feel like you should be training with cars instead of weights. You wanna grow, don'tcha?  

Lastly, as far as the gyno, keep running that nolva for a few weeks. 100% better safe than sorry, TRUST me haha.

Keep up the good work, playa.

FLEX


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## Flex (Jun 16, 2005)

.....and if you need me to take care of your girlfriend, i'll kill the bitch for $50.


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## musclepump (Jun 17, 2005)

Fuck her after your morning workout and again before 5pm. Then tell her you've got to sleep so go the fuck away


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## Tha Don (Jun 19, 2005)

Flex said:
			
		

> .....and if you need me to take care of your girlfriend, i'll kill the bitch for $50.


HAHAHA, its a deal!


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## Tha Don (Jun 20, 2005)

*steroids*

i'm on week 5 now, and my strength is definately up from last week! i was benching 125kg today, before i started this cycle i was benching around the 105kg mark, thats crazy! i could NEVER lift that sort of weight without the juice, all the guys in the gym can't believe it, these 2 mean lookin black dudes were struggling on 60kg, while i was using it for my warm-up sets, then i start pressing over 2x what were pressing with ease, i'm getting everyone asking ''wow... how long have you been lifting? do you use creatine? do you use protein drinks? you should play rugby with strength like that!'' lol, its great, i feel like superman!

oh and i got called ''Arnie'' today, made my day


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## celt (Jun 21, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> i'm on week 5 now, and my strength is definately up from last week! i was benching 125kg today, before i started this cycle i was benching around the 105kg mark, thats crazy! i could NEVER lift that sort of weight without the juice, all the guys in the gym can't believe it, these 2 mean lookin black dudes were struggling on 60kg, while i was using it for my warm-up sets, then i start pressing over 2x what were pressing with ease, i'm getting everyone asking ''wow... how long have you been lifting? do you use creatine? do you use protein drinks? you should play rugby with strength like that!'' lol, its great, i feel like superman!
> 
> oh and i got called ''Arnie'' today, made my day





LOL, yeah its deadly hwen they just stare at ya thinkin "How the hell....." . Glad that things are still goin well. Have ya a target bench press that ya wanna reach, and how are your other exercises doin?


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## Mags (Jul 3, 2005)

hey dude, where are ya? Hope all is going well still pal


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## Tha Don (Jul 10, 2005)

Mags said:
			
		

> hey dude, where are ya? Hope all is going well still pal


hi bro

sad news i'm afraid, i stopped the cycle about 2 weeks back, i was getting really worried over my high blood pressure, and it really messed my head up (i just couldn't go on living with the anxiety), even worse was when i realised i had formed lumps in under BOTH nipples (right being slightly worse than the left), i don't know how long they had been there for but i think they just went unnoticed for a while, and when i finally looked in the mirror one day and saw my right pec looking a bit different (like kinda pointy) i knew that i had developed full on GYNO! 

i've been running 80-60mg nolva ED over the last 2 weeks, onto 40mg right now, and i will stay on the nolva for another week or 2 for my PCT, luckily the gyno has gone down slightly, it is not too noticable right now thank God! but its bad news to know that i am prone, this means plently of AE/AI/SERMs over my future cycles

i plan to get back on again soon, another test/dbol lined up towards the end of the year, will be running proviron and nolva throughout help prevent edema and gyno, was going to run deca, but TBH i think i'm big enough already, 1 more cycle would just be the icing on the cake for me, and i want to get it right next time!

i went from 184lbs to 207lbs over them 5 weeks, once i'd dropped the dbol and hit the nolva i fell to 201lbs, and now i'm up at 203lbs, so i've put on an impressive 19lbs!! but my bodyfat has risen from 14.5% before the cycle, to 17%, it works out at about 12lbs LBM gain and 7lbs fat gain, overall i'm VERY satisfied with the results of this cycle, i made some mistakes (not going deep enough with the jabs, not doing enough cv, and dropping the nolva on cycle), but i've learnt from them, its been a great learning experience and i don't stop getting compliments from people right now about how great i'm looking  so its all good!

thanks all for your support, shame this cycle didn't work out as well as it should have done, but under the circumstances i felt it was in my best interests to come off when i did


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## GFR (Jul 10, 2005)

Sorry to hear you had problems, but it happens to us all at least once. I would recommend that the next time you don't repeat the same cycle that gave problems. Just stick to the basics first "test", it's best to see how you react to a basic test cycle before you start mixing drugs. Don't let it get you down.


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## soxmuscle (Jul 10, 2005)

19 pounds is a hell of a lot of weight.  Good job and sorry to hear it didn't work out perfectly as we all here were hoping for.


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## Mags (Jul 18, 2005)

Damn! thats bad luck man, you seemed to be doing so well and it was great to read this journal and see how you learnt/gained as you progressed, a good eye opener for someone like me (still aint touched the gear yet)! Anyway dude, like you have already realised your health is more important pal and you've got plenty of time to get back to the drawing board etc and have another go. Sorry it went shit on ya, but good on ya for trying fella. Take it easy bro, hope all your problems clear up soon.


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