# Same body part twice a week?



## feinburgrl (May 25, 2011)

I've been working out my body twice a week for a few years and have not seen any gain. So, I start to do it only once a week. Now that I'm bulking, do you think it's a good idea to go back to twice a week working out the same body part? First time doing a bulking cycle and always eat between 1k to 2k a day for over 10 years. Asking because I'm intaking over 3.5k calories a day now and thinking I will use that energy to build muscle faster.


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## Work IN Progress (May 25, 2011)

You didn't get any bigger for the last 10 years because you weren't eating enough. 
1-2 thousand calories is like breakfast and a snack for me. I wouldn't train the same body part too often. Especially chest back and legs. 3-4 days minimum between larger muscle groups. You won't grow if you are constantly breaking the muscle down and not giving time to recover and grow.


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## sassy69 (May 25, 2011)

I think you can do it - but I wouldn't go out of my way to get all the body parts in 2x in a week. I generally train 5x/week (plus cardio & random abs/calves/yoga/whatever makes it 7 usually) - but depending on my split - its more important to get sufficient recovery - but also remember that even if you aren't focusing on that one bodypart, other larger muscle groups tend to work them. I'm thinking specifically of shoulders, bis & tris. I don't think its all that important to beat on these muscle groups because they will get some work w/ chest & back. ... if that makes sense.  

What is the split you had in mind?


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## ANIMALHAUS (May 26, 2011)

Just up the calories a bit more and continue to work each muscle once a week.  Try this for a couple months and see what happens.


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## Hench (May 26, 2011)

More food!


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## LAM (May 26, 2011)

everyone should be working out each body part 2x a week.  training a body part once every 7 days just about always results in far less than optimum gains in strength and/or increased muscle mass with the proper diet.


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## Anabolic5150 (May 26, 2011)

LAM said:


> everyone should be working out each body part 2x a week.  training a body part once every 7 days just about always results in far less than optimum gains in strength and/or increased muscle mass with the proper diet.



Can you offer proof of this, or is it just your opinion? I only train each bodypart once a week and have for quite sometime, and I think my gains have been substantial.


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## CaptainNapalm (May 26, 2011)

LAM said:


> everyone should be working out each body part 2x a week. training a body part once every 7 days just about always results in far less than optimum gains in strength and/or increased muscle mass with the proper diet.


 
I don't have anything to back this statement up but speaking from experience I agree with it.  In my earlier years of lifting (19-23 yrs old) I predominantly focused on training each muscle group once a week with satisfactory gains.  After taking a couple of years off I came back at 26 years old and did the exact same lifts, exact same supplements, exact same diet only my splits now focused on training each major muscle group twice weekly and that is when I exploded.  To this day (at 31 years old now) I still try to stimulate each major muscle group twice a week because of how impressed I was with this transition.  Again, this is simply speaking from experience and I'm sure everyone is different


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## Anabolic5150 (May 26, 2011)

And I respect your input Captain, it's based on your experience. But was there a change in your diet, stress levels, ability to rest better? Maybe it was maturity that allowed you to handle changes in training better even though you didn't realize it.  These are the variables that I think make the biggest impact in my opinion. 

I to trained each bodypart twice weekly at one point. But as I've gotten older, even with optimum nutrition and rest, I can't do it anymore. My question to the poster above was to show that a blanket statement "everyone should train each bodypart twice a week" is not a good statement to make. A 20 year old newbie can do that, a 50 year old newbie, probably not. I don't like blanket statements, they more often then not are inaccurate.


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## ANIMALHAUS (May 26, 2011)

CaptainNapalm said:


> I don't have anything to back this statement up but speaking from experience I agree with it. In my earlier years of lifting (19-23 yrs old) I predominantly focused on training each muscle group once a week with satisfactory gains. After taking a couple of years off I came back at 26 years old and did the exact same lifts, exact same supplements, exact same diet only my splits now focused on training each major muscle group twice weekly and that is when I exploded. To this day (at 31 years old now) I still try to stimulate each major muscle group twice a week because of how impressed I was with this transition. Again, this is simply speaking from experience and I'm sure everyone is different


 
Ok, that is from your experience, and yours alone, though. Not everyone is the same, so to say that "everyone should be working out each body part 2x a week" is a bold statement... 

However, I'm jealous of you being able to do this because my body and schedule would never allow me to do this! haha


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## suppRatings (May 26, 2011)

If you haven't seen any gains in 2 years...you aren't working out


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## Hench (May 26, 2011)

For some reason the site is down atm, but on bodyrecomposition.com Lyle has a great article detailing why you should hit each bodypart 2x a week. 

I also saw a graph on TNATION in one of Thibs articles showing the advantages of training this way, let me see if I can find it.


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## CaptainNapalm (May 26, 2011)

ANIMALHOUSE said:


> Ok, that is from your experience, and yours alone, though. Not everyone is the same, so to say that "everyone should be working out each body part 2x a week" is a bold statement...
> 
> However, I'm jealous of you being able to do this because my body and schedule would never allow me to do this! haha



Totally agree with you.  That's why I emphasized that this was my experience only.


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## CaptainNapalm (May 26, 2011)

Anabolic5150 said:


> And I respect your input Captain, it's based on your experience. But was there a change in your diet, stress levels, ability to rest better? Maybe it was maturity that allowed you to handle changes in training better even though you didn't realize it.  These are the variables that I think make the biggest impact in my opinion.
> 
> I to trained each bodypart twice weekly at one point. But as I've gotten older, even with optimum nutrition and rest, I can't do it anymore. My question to the poster above was to show that a blanket statement "everyone should train each bodypart twice a week" is not a good statement to make. A 20 year old newbie can do that, a 50 year old newbie, probably not. I don't like blanket statements, they more often then not are inaccurate.



Obviously I wasn't the same person I was when I was younger, perhaps a bit less partying so I get what you're saying but I think with everything else I was on ball.  Just to clarify, when I say I train each major muscle group twice weekly I still put in the same amount of sets for each major muscle group in a week, it's just that instead of doing 10 sets for chest in one session for example I will do 4-5 sets per session on separate days grouped with something else.  But all of you are correct and I've heard this before that as we age moving to training each major muscle group once weekly is the prudent approach for most, I guess I haven't gotten there yet maybe.


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## dteller1 (May 26, 2011)

for a young fit adult nearly all research and theory ive read suggests absolute beginners 3 times a week as they wont be using heavy enough weights to really throw there recovery abilities. nearly EVERYONE else though should be 2 times per week, there is lots of theory that backs that up firstly if you are natural increased protein muscle synthesis only last a maximum of 36 hours, thats the mechanism that new muscle is generated, the longer rest people use arent for muscle but the CNS can take much longer to recover. If someone is very advanced and they are lifting incredibly heavy weight then a full week of rest may be needed, but this isnt the average person who goes to the gym its a very small percentage of people that get to this stage.


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## ihateschoolmt (May 26, 2011)

^ I agree with this for a large portion of the population, but I also like what anabolic said about blanket statements. There are very few things that apply to all people without exception.


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## Anabolic5150 (May 26, 2011)

Some can train twice a week for the same bodypart, some once. Look at what Arthur Jones prescribed with Mike Mentzer, a bodypart hit what was it, every 9-11 days.


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## dteller1 (May 26, 2011)

but the 2 stated are firstly very elite and not the majority like i was stating and secondly took a boat load of steroids which keeps you in an anabolic state for far longer.

thats not to say that once a week doesnt work it clearly does but its probably not optimal for most


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## Anabolic5150 (May 26, 2011)

dteller1 said:


> but the 2 stated are firstly very elite and not the majority like i was stating and secondly took a boat load of steroids which keeps you in an anabolic state for far longer.
> 
> thats not to say that once a week doesnt work it clearly does but its probably not optimal for most


 
And again, can you explain where your evidence that it is not optimal for most comes from. Again, this is a blanket statement and in my opinion is not based in any way on fact. Not trying to be a dick, just asking for you to back up such a bold statement.


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## suppRatings (May 26, 2011)

wasn't trying to be a dick earlier, but how does someone workout for 2 months without gains...let alone 2 years....its is beyhond me


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## x~factor (May 26, 2011)

I think we can all agree on one thing: everyone responds to training frequencies differently. You have to find what works for you. So to the OP, don't be afraid to try it again. Only you can know if it works for you or not.

Personally, training a body part once a week is all my body could handle. I wish I could do more to make faster progress but my body tells me


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## dteller1 (May 27, 2011)

i have provided you with some evidence its up to you whether you ignore it or not, studies show that protein synthesis the process of making new proteins only last 36 hours maximum after resistance training after this time it returns to baseline, so for 36 hours you are growing muscle, after that you are in a sort of anti catabolic state until you next hit the weights with that muscle

The time course for elevated muscle protein synthe... [Can J Appl Physiol. 1995] - PubMed result

http://rodrigoborges.com/pdf/forca_05.pdf

there are two studies and papers that show that, there are more but id be googling for a long time just type into google and you can find some, at the bottom of the second link on that paper it states that in there opinion that optimum frequency is two-three times per week per group for muscle gains


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## Anabolic5150 (May 27, 2011)

For every study that supports it, there is one that claims once a week is better. There are to many variables to say that one way is the best. The best training method, routine, frequency, is the one that works for you. I don't care what a study says, I care about the results I achieve from my training. I can't train a bodypart twice a week and grow because of my recovery ability. So now I have proven your study wrong through my own research. There is no one right way to do this, never has been, never will be. Do what works for you.


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## dteller1 (May 27, 2011)

you asked for evidence and i gave you it, as soon as i do you say its rubbish, but like i said it works for the MAJORITY of people not everyone, if it doesn't work for you so be it. and you say there are studies that state once a week is better, care linking me? ive never seen a study supporting this, ive seen peoples opinions but never seen an actual study.


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## Anabolic5150 (May 27, 2011)

I never said it was rubbish, I said training is not a one size fits all program. If you prefer to train a bodypart twice weekly, do it. It's what works for you. And any study posted by either of us can be refuted by something else. Just because a "study" says something is best does not make it best for everyone. They don't take all the variables into play and many times test groups are selected as they will provide the best response to the test stimulus therefore backing the results the tester wants. I'm not gonna argue with you bro, I'm gonna continue to train once weekly for bodypart, you train however works best for you. That's what I'm getting at.


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## ANIMALHAUS (May 27, 2011)

I don't even believe that IFBB pros train each group twice a week!  My theory is, if you need to hit it twice in one week, you hit it like a bitch the first time!  Haha.


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## jay83 (May 27, 2011)

hey animal house you never heard of ronnie coleman? he trained twice a week and i don't think he hit anything like a bitch


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## jay83 (May 27, 2011)

once a week or twice a week just like everything else in this sport it comes down to genetics and how fast YOUR body heals.


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## Diesel618 (May 27, 2011)

My larger muscle groups can only handle once every 5-6 days. Calves and abs I hit every 3rd day. I assume you guys that hit each bodypart twice a week scale back the volume a little bit? I can only imagine 30-40 sets of chest (or anything else) a week.


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## ihateschoolmt (May 27, 2011)

I scale back the volume quite a bit for twice a week, yes.


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## Work IN Progress (May 27, 2011)

Can somebody explain to me how you hit each bodypart twice a week and still get rest days. I'm curious if you guys take days off ever. I don't train arms iso at all and I still couldn't train each part twice. There's not enough days in a week for it. And if you train 2 major muscle groups in the same day I just think you are losing some intensity after the first major part.   Please explain


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## ihateschoolmt (May 27, 2011)

I do an upper lower split usually. I go 2 on 1 off. I am almost very new to lifting, I think it's been 4 months now, so still a newbie. I like to go to failure most of the time, usually only do 1 set of squats and then two other exercises for my first leg day, second one is 1 set of deadlifts 1 other movement and some grip work.


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## dteller1 (May 28, 2011)

for twice a week if you use an A B A format you get plenty of rest, on the last set of the hypertrophy day exercises i usually do some rest pause reps, strength days have no rest pause

so for me i use A as push and B as pull 

day 1
A push hypertrophy day
bench press 3 x 10-12
squats 3 x 10-12
mil press 3 x 10-12
tricep pushdown 3 x 10-12

day 2 
rest

day 3
B pull hypertrophy day
seated rows 3 x 10-12
deadlift 3 x 10-12
lat pulldown 3 x 10-12
bicep curl 3 x 10-12

day 4
rest

day 5
A push strength day
bench press 4 x 5-6
squats 4 x 5-6
mil press 4 x 5-6
tricep pushdown 4 x 5-6

day 6
rest

day 7
B pull strength day
seated rows 4 x 5-6
deadlift 4 x 5-6
lat pulldown 4 x 5-6
bicep curl 4 x 5-6

day 8
rest

day 9
start from day 1

sometimes i will take an extra day rest if i think i need it or my schedule wont allow me to go the gym that day but its not that often it normally follows this pattern one on one off rotating the workouts.


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## andreaus (Jun 2, 2011)

hey xfactor, me to mate i can only handle one body part a week. i use push/pull/leg day. any more and im digging a hole thats hard to get out of recovery wise. jay83, genetics plays a hell of a part in the iron game mate, when i was younger i could handle a hammering but as we get on a bit everything tends to catch up with us. hell i nearly f...in died four years ago, the docs said if i hadnt been as robust as i was i wouldnt be hear.


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## Hench (Jun 2, 2011)

Anyone who says they cant train a body part twice a week due to not recovering, doesn't know how to set the program up correctly. 

Wish I could find that graph on TNATION, just looked again, no luck. 

Up until 4 weeks ago I'd always trained each body part once per week. Since then Ive been doing a modified version of HST. The results have been unreal. Ive gained 6lbs and Im leaner (photograph comparison). I was also coming off a cut, so there was a bit of rebound, but great results none the less. 

Give it a try if you get a chance, dont know if Ill ever go back to once per week.


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## Anabolic5150 (Jun 2, 2011)

Hench said:


> Anyone who says they cant train a body part twice a week due to not recovering, doesn't know how to set the program up correctly.
> 
> Wish I could find that graph on TNATION, just looked again, no luck.
> 
> ...



My program is set up quite well for me. However, regardless of diet, rest, supps, whatever, at 50 years old I can't recover training a bodypart twice a week training like I do. I did train twice a week per bodypart when I was younger, now it just doesn't work so well. I get lethargic about week 4, and if I push through and continue to train anyway, get sick and run down by week 6 or so. Again, some can train each bodypart twice a week, some can't. This isn't an everyone can do this this way sport.


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## myCATpowerlifts (Jun 2, 2011)

Anabolic5150 said:


> My program is set up quite well for me. However, regardless of diet, rest, supps, whatever, at 50 years old I can't recover training a bodypart twice a week training like I do. I did train twice a week per bodypart when I was younger, now it just doesn't work so well. I get lethargic about week 4, and if I push through and continue to train anyway, get sick and run down by week 6 or so. Again, some can train each bodypart twice a week, some can't. This isn't an everyone can do this this way sport.



Do you understand the concept of splitting the volume?

You don't go from working out 1 body part a week, to doing the EXACT SAME routine 2x a week.

You would have to cut the volume in half obviously.


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## Anabolic5150 (Jun 2, 2011)

myCATpowerlifts said:


> Do you understand the concept of splitting the volume?
> 
> You don't go from working out 1 body part a week, to doing the EXACT SAME routine 2x a week.
> 
> You would have to cut the volume in half obviously.


 
I fully understand that, but even cutting the volume does not allow ME, see the word ME, to recover and train that bodypart again inside 7 days.

It doesn't matter how you train, how often you train, I have never said my way is the only way. But for anyone to say that 2 times a week per bodypart is the only way to train is making what I consider to be an incorrect statement. This stuff isn't cookie cutter, there is not just one way. 

But you know what, I'll keep doing my thing and let you fellas continue your discussion.


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## LAM (Jun 2, 2011)

Anabolic5150 said:


> I fully understand that, but even cutting the volume does not allow ME, see the word ME, to recover and train that bodypart again inside 7 days.
> 
> It doesn't matter how you train, how often you train, I have never said my way is the only way. But for anyone to say that 2 times a week per bodypart is the only way to train is making what I consider to be an incorrect statement. This stuff isn't cookie cutter, there is not just one way.
> 
> But you know what, I'll keep doing my thing and let you fellas continue your discussion.



the frequency of training all depends on the intensity as that determines how long it takes the CNS to recover, unless injured or strained skeletal muscle is usually good to go in 48hrs.  a person can train the same muscles daily if they never use loads greater than 50% of the 1RM.


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## Life (Jun 2, 2011)

LAM said:


> the frequency of training all depends on the intensity as that determines how long it takes the CNS to recover, unless injured or strained skeletal muscle is usually good to go in 48hrs.  a person can train the same muscles daily if they never use loads greater than 50% of the 1RM.



Agreed. I'm doing full body workouts four times a week and my recovery is enough that I'm not overtraining/getting sick. But two of those days are @ 50%, one is ~75% and the power workout is 90-95% 1RM. Power workout obviously kills me but I'm OK by Monday (After working out Saturday)


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## Anabolic5150 (Jun 2, 2011)

LAM said:


> the frequency of training all depends on the intensity as that determines how long it takes the CNS to recover, unless injured or strained skeletal muscle is usually good to go in 48hrs. a person can train the same muscles daily if they never use loads greater than 50% of the 1RM.


 
I'm 50, train heavy 99% of the time at 80-85% of my 1RM, so training again daily, or even 48 hours later is a no go for me. I'm not saying that there are some who can do it. The point I'm trying to make, rather unsuccessfully it appears, is that there is no one way to do this. If you can train twice weekly per bodypart by dropping the weight/volume, whatever, and grow, please do that. I'm saying for me, I cannot. I train 8 weeks or so and then take a week off to recover, at twice per week even at a lower volume, I get maybe 4-5 weeks in. I can't do it, but apparently many here think I can, or others can.


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## Life (Jun 2, 2011)

Anabolic5150 said:


> I'm 50, train heavy 99% of the time at 80-85% of my 1RM, so training again daily, or even 48 hours later is a no go for me. I'm not saying that there are some who can do it. The point I'm trying to make, rather unsuccessfully it appears, is that there is no one way to do this. If you can train twice weekly per bodypart by dropping the weight/volume, whatever, and grow, please do that. I'm saying for me, I cannot. I train 8 weeks or so and then take a week off to recover, at twice per week even at a lower volume, I get maybe 4-5 weeks in. I can't do it, but apparently many here think I can, or others can.



I don't think anyone can train with that rep range twice weekly for any extended period at all. When I was doing 5/3/1 I was training four days a week (Deads/Squats/Bench/Mil. Press) and was having trouble recovering. I'm 24.. no way in hell I'll be able to do it @ 50


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## LAM (Jun 2, 2011)

Anabolic5150 said:


> I'm 50, train heavy 99% of the time at 80-85% of my 1RM, so training again daily, or even 48 hours later is a no go for me. I'm not saying that there are some who can do it. The point I'm trying to make, rather unsuccessfully it appears, is that there is no one way to do this. If you can train twice weekly per bodypart by dropping the weight/volume, whatever, and grow, please do that. I'm saying for me, I cannot. I train 8 weeks or so and then take a week off to recover, at twice per week even at a lower volume, I get maybe 4-5 weeks in. I can't do it, but apparently many here think I can, or others can.



this is why you need to vary the intensity of your training, some variation of periodization is needed in your case.

at 50 your natural androgen output is well beyond the peak years (i'm almost 43 and am feeling it myself).  in terms of resistance training and fitness the levels of circulating androgen not only effects the BMR but it does CNS output as well. as androgen levels decrease so does maximal voluntary neural drive of agonist muscles.  this is why it's near impossible to over-train when on gear, CNS output is enhanced substantially.

you need to add in some days of 50-70% of the 1RM and you'll find you can extend strength training cycles longer.


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## Anabolic5150 (Jun 2, 2011)

LAM said:


> this is why you need to vary the intensity of your training, some variation of periodization is needed in your case.
> 
> at 50 your natural androgen output is well beyond the peak years (i'm almost 43 and am feeling it myself). in terms of resistance training and fitness the levels of circulating androgen not only effects the BMR but it does CNS output as well. as androgen levels decrease so does maximal voluntary neural drive of agonist muscles. this is why it's near impossible to over-train when on gear, CNS output is enhanced substantially.
> 
> you need to add in some days of 50-70% of the 1RM and you'll find you can extend strength training cycles longer.


 
Thanks for the input, I do back off as my training blast ends, and do cycle my weights/reps depending how I feel in the gym. I've been training hard for so long, it just fits me. But I do firmly believe that rest periods have to be built in. Sometimes I will even take 2, 3 even 4 weeks off from the gym depending on my CNS.

I'm just starting to cut my carbs a bit, was 315 at about 18% bodyfat, goal is 270 at sub 10% right now. But I can already feel my intensity slipping a bit, probably due to the added cardio. I'm 304 right now, looking for sub 300 by June 11th (getting married that day)


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## BGOTTIR (Jun 4, 2011)

This makes me wonder, can you overtrain a muscle group by working it too hard 1X/week? I workout each muscle group once a week at 8-10 reps x 3 sets x 3 exercises. I use as heavy of weight as I can with near failure occurring on rep 8-10 for each set. I am really sore for 1-2 days and still sore until day 3-4. Then I have 2 days they are not sore (but tight) until I work them out again.

I always figured working out hard, breaking down the muscle as much as possible, then giving it time to fully recover was ok. Yes or no?


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## Anabolic5150 (Jun 4, 2011)

BGOTTIR said:


> This makes me wonder, can you overtrain a muscle group by working it too hard 1X/week? I workout each muscle group once a week at 8-10 reps x 3 sets x 3 exercises. I use as heavy of weight as I can with near failure occurring on rep 8-10 for each set. I am really sore for 1-2 days and still sore until day 3-4. Then I have 2 days they are not sore (but tight) until I work them out again.
> 
> I always figured working out hard, breaking down the muscle as much as possible, then giving it time to fully recover was ok. Yes or no?


 
I say yes, it's enough. Others may disagree. It all comes down to if it works for you.


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## LAM (Jun 4, 2011)

yea, if you are using loads at or close to 80% of the 1RM and going to eccentric failure the odds are you will require a longer recover period...

you do realize that training to failure isn't necessary don't you?


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## Anabolic5150 (Jun 5, 2011)

LAM said:


> yea, if you are using loads at or close to 80% of the 1RM and going to eccentric failure the odds are you will require a longer recover period...
> 
> you do realize that training to failure isn't necessary don't you?


 
I do, usually only take my last set to complete failure. Read an article years ago by Bill Pearl that said training to failure every set was not needed. Always respected him so I follow his advice. Try to leave one rep in the tank except the last set.


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## dteller1 (Jun 5, 2011)

although all out failure isnt necessary you do have to train close to failure, its quite a hard line to get right, you might give up to early, i generally just go to pretty much failure on all sets but then again i dont do that much volume.


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## amonroe (Jun 11, 2011)

"Work In Progress" summed it up well...you werent eating enough...did you get stronger over the last 10 years? If you got stronger I would have expected to see some size gain because your muscles would be bigger...

You need to eat more and lift more as well...maybe try taking longer breaks between workouts...


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## Pika (Jun 11, 2011)

I know a man his 53 and very gray he workouts 2 times aweek each sesh for nealry 3 hours! He works all his body part and his massive!! Lol im telling ya his chest is huge and arms! Not much bf ... He been working out for 13 years tho but still only 2 times aweek  pretty good


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## wolf2009 (Jun 11, 2011)

No problem with the same body part twice as long is u have 72hrs rest b/w the two exercises


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## MDR (Jun 11, 2011)

I think the key is variety.  When training very heavy with maximum volume as a powerlifter, I only trained hard 3 days a week, with two light days consisting of very brief, low-volume workouts.  My days were grouped according to the three lifts, not according to body part.  The most I've ever managed for an extended period is 3 on one off, completing the whole body twice in eight days.  I wouldn't worry too much about the seven day week when scheduling your workouts.  Vary the intensity of your workouts, along with the volume.  I think things should be changed up, and multiple training styles need to be implemented in order to progress consistently.


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## mryar (Jun 13, 2011)




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