# Do you deadlift more than you squat?



## eskimo515 (Jul 7, 2004)

I just started regular deadlifting after a long time and figured that I would be able to post a large number right out the gate, at least as much as I squat (365X6).  But I couldnt get even close.  Although my back feels great (I forgot about how much regular deads can kill you), I maxed out at like 245 for 6.  I thought people usually deaded more than they squat.  Thoughts?


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## Hanz29 (Jul 7, 2004)

It could be b/c dead lifts use so many muscles that some are weak enough to limit your weight....Grip usually hurts me on all my back exercises


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 7, 2004)

If you squat and deadlift right, then the lifts will be very close. The major exception is that a deadlift has a greater ROM than a squat. 

 This is why people who don't squat right will pull more, while guys who squat right will squat more.


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## LAM (Jul 7, 2004)

when I used to PL my 1RM DL was about 50 lbs more than my 1RM SQ


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## gopro (Jul 7, 2004)

My deadlift outgrew my squats rather quickly when I used to practice both. However, I have not squatted in about 4 years and only do rack deads these days.


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## Arnold (Jul 7, 2004)

My squatting days may be over too, except for light weight.

I am going to a chiropractor now to get my back straightened out (so no squatting for about 3-4 months), and I have had knee pain for the past several months, so, I think I may just rely on leg presses from now on.


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 7, 2004)

Most people will use their posterior to deadlift, but they will squat with their quads. These people will always have a bigger dead than squat. When people learn to dead and squat correctly (read: hips back, hips forward, pulling back with the shoulders, sitting back not down, etc) their squats will catch up very quickly and eventually overcome their dead.


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## gopro (Jul 7, 2004)

Saturday Fever said:
			
		

> Most people will use their posterior to deadlift, but they will squat with their quads. These people will always have a bigger dead than squat. When people learn to dead and squat correctly (read: hips back, hips forward, pulling back with the shoulders, sitting back not down, etc) their squats will catch up very quickly and eventually overcome their dead.


There is also a big difference in squatting or deadlifting for pure power (weight lifted), and for bodybuilding (hypertrophy response). The form is entirely different. Depending on how I wanted to adjust my squat form...from bar placement, to stance, to degree of lean, etc, I could squat completely different weights...back when I did squats. Now its only leg presses, hacks, and step ups (and my legs grow more efficiently this way).


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## Mudge (Jul 7, 2004)

I squat way under my dead.


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 7, 2004)

It's all about form. However, Prince and gopro summed it up. If you're a bodybuilder, there's not much need to do them. From a strength perspective, it's all form. Your squat and dead need to be identical, save where the bar is located. In this respect, the lifts are very complementary to each other.


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## gopro (Jul 7, 2004)

Saturday Fever said:
			
		

> It's all about form. However, Prince and gopro summed it up. If you're a bodybuilder, there's not much need to do them. From a strength perspective, it's all form. Your squat and dead need to be identical, save where the bar is located. In this respect, the lifts are very complementary to each other.


SNF...most bodybuilders swear by squats as well, just for me they were actually counterproductive. Although I could squat nice poundages in perfect form, they NEVER felt right to me and always led to injury. I do not think I was "made" to squat, if you know what I mean.


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## Arnold (Jul 7, 2004)

I think once you have the foundation: quads/glutes/hams, you can maintain it with other exercises, but I do believe in building a solid foundation with squats.


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 7, 2004)

Squatting with your quads almost invariably leads to injury when you start to lift big. It's all too common for people to tear quads or report knee injuries. I think (and I say think because I've never looked into it) that most bodybuilders who squat big, squat with their posterior.


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## gopro (Jul 7, 2004)

Saturday Fever said:
			
		

> Squatting with your quads almost invariably leads to injury when you start to lift big. It's all too common for people to tear quads or report knee injuries. I think (and I say think because I've never looked into it) that most bodybuilders who squat big, squat with their posterior.


Actually, never had a knee problem, but when I would go to the 450-500 range, major lower back problems would appear. I tried adjusting my form in several ways, as well as tried different types of shoes/sneakers, and even belts, but to no avail. However, this was a blessing as it made me take up hacks, and these led to far more pure quad growth for me than squats ever did.


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 7, 2004)

gopro said:
			
		

> major lower back problems would appear.


 Not surprising at all, considering the positioning of the spine and where pressure is applied when squatting with the quads. Cool this turned you on to something better. Lots of people are stubborn and try to fight through pain.


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## Rock405 (Jul 7, 2004)

i deadlifted again for the first time in about 2 years and got 405 twice. it was a great feeling, but i was hurting the next day. make sure you use a wieght belt and proper form, this excersice could do more bad than good if you don't do it right. i do squats and deadlifts once a week.


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## Mudge (Jul 7, 2004)

Wear a belt if you dont want any core strength.


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## Rock405 (Jul 7, 2004)

i wear it because i don't want a bad back.


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 7, 2004)

What does a belt have to do with your back if you're not properly stabilizing yourself anyways?


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## Rock405 (Jul 7, 2004)

for me it helps prevents hyperextension. it also helps increase (ITP intrathoraic pressure). i played college football and my strength coach made all of use wear wieght belts, and i've never stopped since.


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 7, 2004)

Mudge said:
			
		

> Wear a belt if you dont want any core strength.


 followed by...



			
				Rock405 said:
			
		

> for me it helps prevents hyperextension.


 which is, of course, putting a bandaid on a broken arm. If you had a strong core, you wouldn't need the belt for this.



			
				Rock405 said:
			
		

> it also helps increase (ITP intrathoraic pressure).


 Get strong abs (core), breathe air into your belly, hold it, and push against it with your abs, to achieve the same effect.

 So what Mudge said stands.


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## Rock405 (Jul 7, 2004)

Saturday Fever said:
			
		

> followed by...
> 
> 
> which is, of course, putting a bandaid on a broken arm. If you had a strong core, you wouldn't need the belt for this.


 there is a reason why all olympic deadlifters wear weight belts, and it has nothing to do with having or not having a strong "core" , it's about protecting yourself. I'm not going to risk over-extending my back while deadlifting, especially being an athlete, i can't risk that.


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 7, 2004)

They wear belts because they do it wrong. Compare the record for someone who squats right to someone who squats wrong. It's only about a 500lb difference these days.


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## Rock405 (Jul 7, 2004)

Saturday Fever said:
			
		

> They wear belts because they do it wrong. Compare the record for someone who squats right to someone who squats wrong. It's only about a 500lb difference these days.


  you don't make it to the olympics doing anything wrong.


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 7, 2004)

Aside from ending up crippled?

 OK let's look at it this way. I squat 540. By Olympic standards I'm damn near the world record. By real standards, I'm 601 pounds shy of the record. And the guy who hit the 1141 squat record isn't going to be crippled later in life by his pathetic form.


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## Rock405 (Jul 7, 2004)

Saturday Fever said:
			
		

> Aside from ending up crippled?
> 
> OK let's look at it this way. I squat 540. By Olympic standards I'm damn near the world record. By real standards, I'm 601 pounds shy of the record. And the guy who hit the 1141 squat record isn't going to be crippled later in life by his pathetic form.


 i've never heard of retired olympic wieghtlifters ending up crippled. Mark Henry, one of the greatest of all time, is running around in the WWE right now far from crippled, and he was snatching your deadlift weight over his head with ease.


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## Akateros (Jul 7, 2004)

So... Saturday Night, if you do squat with your quads, and pull more than you squat, anything you can recommend to address the issue? (Assuming the squatter in question is going into it with fucked knees in the first place.)


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## Premo55 (Jul 7, 2004)

^ I'd like to know too...I'd really like to get my squat up to par...
 the way I try to squat is 
 - Hands as close to each other as possible on the bar
 - Chest forward
 - Sit back instead of down
 - Abs tight and braced
 - Head up
 - I try to focus more on my hams and glutes, considering I only do full squats, ass to grass
 - Tight back, although often I find that I break this form, very bad thing

 Peace.


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## M.J.H. (Jul 7, 2004)

Saturday Fever said:
			
		

> This is why people who don't squat right will pull more, while guys who squat right will squat more.


Damn, I obviously do not squat correctly at all. I can't even start to imagine if my squat was more than my deadlift.


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## Mudge (Jul 7, 2004)

Rock405 said:
			
		

> there is a reason why all olympic deadlifters wear weight belts, and it has nothing to do with having or not having a strong "core" , it's about protecting yourself. I'm not going to risk over-extending my back while deadlifting, especially being an athlete, i can't risk that.


I can throw about 50 pounds on my squat or dead when using a belt, if I were going for a record I'd be belted, suited and chalked to the hilt.

I dont use powerlifter squat form.


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## CowPimp (Jul 8, 2004)

Does powerlifting form for squats apply to full squats as well?


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## KataMaStEr (Jul 8, 2004)

_My squat is 70lbs less than my deadlift, deadlift has always been my best lift._


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## gopro (Jul 8, 2004)

Rock405 said:
			
		

> for me it helps prevents hyperextension. it also helps increase (ITP intrathoraic pressure). i played college football and my strength coach made all of use wear wieght belts, and i've never stopped since.


I agree with you. I wear a belt on all of my top end sets, even though I work real hard on my core strength. In fact, I am a certified core strength trainer. Still, I like the feeling of the belt around my waist and what it does for my lifts. I would like to wear my belt at all times during training, but do not use it until I am past my warmups and onto my true sets. I have never had a low back injury, except for when I squatted heavily for reps. The problem with people and belts is when they use it purely as a crutch and make no effort to fully strengthen the core..this is when problems arise.

SNF is not wrong in what he is saying as he brings up a good point, but it is not the view of all strength coaches that wearing a belt is wrong. SNF is influenced by a certain few trainers, and has adopted their thinking as his mantra on lifting. And this is excellent if it works for him.


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 8, 2004)

Akateros said:
			
		

> So... Saturday Night, if you do squat with your quads, and pull more than you squat, anything you can recommend to address the issue? (Assuming the squatter in question is going into it with fucked knees in the first place.)


 Glad you asked. The first thing you can do is learn to squat by sitting back and not sitting down. I've linked the best article ever written on proper squat technique.

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle...57562B2D155692C199.ba08?article=body_120squat


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 8, 2004)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Does powerlifting form for squats apply to full squats as well?


 I define a full squat as a squat to parallel. And yes, the form never changes. You might use a box for purposes of training your ability to explode out of the hole. Or you may do partial ROM squats to fight through sticking points, but the form is always the same. If it isn't, you'll get hurt.


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## Arnold (Jul 8, 2004)

from a general bodybuilding perspective using weight in the 6-12 rep range I do not think a belt is necessary for squats and it's basically a crutch.


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## CowPimp (Jul 8, 2004)

Saturday Fever said:
			
		

> I define a full squat as a squat to parallel. And yes, the form never changes. You might use a box for purposes of training your ability to explode out of the hole. Or you may do partial ROM squats to fight through sticking points, but the form is always the same. If it isn't, you'll get hurt.


I define a full squat as a squat where my ass almost hits the ground.  I'm referring to a squat done in this manner.


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 8, 2004)

The form would be identical. Although squatting like that is why people complain of lower back pain. To get that low you have to round your back. It's the way the human body is made. And rounding the back with any kind of weight on the bar = quick trip to the ER.


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## gopro (Jul 8, 2004)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> from a general bodybuilding perspective using weight in the 6-12 rep range I do not think a belt is necessary for squats and it's basically a crutch.


But you are special. Wannabees like me need a belt


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## Premo55 (Jul 8, 2004)

I guess you don't recommend full squats, then.

 Peace.


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## Nate (Jul 8, 2004)

good thread.


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 8, 2004)

Well, perhaps we should all have a competition. Squat the way you want. You'll top out eventually in the high 400s, but you'll have chronis knee and lower back problems. I will squat the way I want. I will top out eventually in the high 800s and be injury free.

 But on the bright side, you can always say you were doing "full squats."


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## Arnold (Jul 8, 2004)

SF can/will you provide some evidence that full squats cause knee/back problems.


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 8, 2004)

Evidence past the testimonials of this site's most accomplished bodybuilders? (you, gopro)

 I will back my statements, as requested.


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 8, 2004)

This really could go back and forth, but given the testimonials of Prince and gopro, I'll simply cite two cases. 

 From http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/index.asp?id=44204


> *Most Olympic Weightlifting Medals *
> Norbert Schemansky (USA) has won a record four Olympic medals, he won gold in the middle-heavyweight class in 1952, silver in the heavyweight class in 1948, and bronze in the heavyweight class in both 1960 and 1964. He intended to compete in the 1968 Olympics, when he would have been 44, but a knee injury prevented his appearance.


 At the 2000 Olympics:


> Ogbeifo lost the silver medal in the world championships on body weight in November. She also had a knee injury, and her federation made a national appeal to help finance her surgery.


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## Arnold (Jul 8, 2004)

I never said that full squats caused me problems, I just said squats in general seem to have taken a toll on my back and knees over the years (I have been squatting for 16 years), my back and knees are in perfect health. 

I have experienced some knee soreness the past few months (which could be due to cardio as well), and as far as my back it has nothing to do with squats or lifting. My right leg is 10mm shorter than my left and it is starting to affect some nerves in my lower back, so I am seeing a chiro to get it straigtened out. Which requires me to wear a heel lift and have 3 adjustments per week. So, I decided to help this process of of getting my spine straight it made sense to avoid any extra back stress.

I know of *NO* evidence to prove or even support that full squatting causes any extra stress on the knees, in fact awhile back the only evidence I could find suggested that stopping at parallel actually put more strain on your knees than going below parallel.

I do feel that once a good foundation has been built squats can be eliminated and other exercises, i.e. lunges, leg press, hack squats, can be used.


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## eskimo515 (Jul 8, 2004)

this is good stuff!!!


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 8, 2004)

We're confusing the depth of a squat with the form. If you squat like a powerlifter, you can go to the floor, the problem becomes one of the human body and how going to that depth will force you to round your back, putting you in an injury-prone position.

Squatting otherwise, whereas the knees are moving forward as the hips move down, will provide the aforementioned back problem, as well as apply unnecessary pressure to the knees. Squatting this way and doing partial reps, or going only to parallel is no better, though I don't know if it's any worse.

I would say the evidence would be by researching the number of Olympic squatters who are either crippled or living with painful injuries whilst only being in their 40s. I provided 2 examples, and google provides a lot more.

Here's where it gets confusing. You said a couple posts up:


> I just said squats in general seem to have taken a toll on my back and knees over the years



then said:


> my back and knees are in perfect health.



So I'm confused. If they're in perfect health, what toll have squats taken on them? I don't mean to sound standoffish, but you've mentioned twice in this thread that squats have had a negative effect on you. I merely wanted to cite your posts as backing that squatting that way leads to injuries.


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## Arnold (Jul 8, 2004)

What I meant was I never had any type of knee pain or back issues until the last year or two. So, I feel that maybe things like heavy squats are catching up with me, or maybe it's just a result of many years of weight training.

I just had my back x-rayed by the chiro and other than it being misaligned my vertabraes and disks are very healthy, no degeneration, no hernated disks, no signs of arthritis, etc.

So, yeah that did seem like a bit of a contradiction on my part.


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## gopro (Jul 9, 2004)

Saturday Fever said:
			
		

> Evidence past the testimonials of this site's most accomplished bodybuilders? (you, gopro)
> 
> I will back my statements, as requested.



Had nothing to do with my squat depth or form, because the problem occurred with several different types of squats, including the type you recommend.

Also, there are hundreds of thousands of bodybuilders that squat more than 600 lbs in "bodybuilder" form with zero back/knee problems. You CANNOT make a blanket statement that all that squat like a bodybuilder will...

1. Top out in the 400s.
2. Have either back or knee problems.


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 9, 2004)

I doubt, highly, that there are hundreds of thousands of people squatting over 600 pounds.

Both you and Prince have experienced discomfort in the back and/or knees. Now you both refuse to acknowledge that squatting had anything to do with it, when in this same thread you both attributed the discomfort to squats.

As far as the kind of squatting I'm talking about, it's not the kind of form you can experiment with and use sometimes, it takes LOTS of practice and repititions to do right. I've seen guys who squat 300+ with their quads try to squat with their posterior, only to fall backwards with 205 on their shoulders.

However, I will concede that not everyone will end up with knee and back problems. I do believe most will, by a vast majority.


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## gopro (Jul 9, 2004)

Saturday Fever said:
			
		

> I doubt, highly, that there are hundreds of thousands of people squatting over 600 pounds.
> 
> Both you and Prince have experienced discomfort in the back and/or knees. Now you both refuse to acknowledge that squatting had anything to do with it, when in this same thread you both attributed the discomfort to squats.
> 
> ...



I actually wrote the above statement wrong...what I meant to convey was that there are hundreds of thousands of bodybuilders that squat in "bodybuilding style," that will never have a back or knee problem, and that many out there can squat 600 plus in this style. In fact, I am sure quite a large percentage of people that squat in your style will also have back and/or knee problems...nobody is immune.

And as far as my back problem, while I only really felt during squats I do not necessarily attribute it to squats. I have injured my biceps before doing curls, but only feel it now when doing WG pullups.

Further, I have had periods of time during my lifting career where I trained with accomplished powerlifters, including two Westsiders, and I used their squat and deadlift technique, and I still had the same problem anytime I squatted over 400 lbs.

Do not make a blanket statement about what will happen to most that squat bodybuilding style, because there is no way to back it up. You are simply assuming, b/c of what you know about physiology and kinesiology.


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## CowPimp (Jul 9, 2004)

Do the legs still get a decent workout squatting PL style?  I want to try it, but I also want to keep my leg development going...  I worry about the same thing with chest and bench pressing PL style.


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 9, 2004)

Well, your quads don't get much work at all, if any. But as gopro and Prince both said, there are better ways to develop your quads.

Likewise, you can do separate chest exercises than bench to develop your pecs.


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## gopro (Jul 9, 2004)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Do the legs still get a decent workout squatting PL style?  I want to try it, but I also want to keep my leg development going...  I worry about the same thing with chest and bench pressing PL style.



Squatting powerlifting style does not develop the thighs to the same degree as bodybuilding style, other wise powerlifters out there squatting 800, 900, 1000 lbs would have the biggest legs on earth, and they do not.


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## CowPimp (Jul 9, 2004)

gopro said:
			
		

> Squatting powerlifting style does not develop the thighs to the same degree as bodybuilding style, other wise powerlifters out there squatting 800, 900, 1000 lbs would have the biggest legs on earth, and they do not.



Do you think it is enough stimulation that hypertrophy will result?  All I have are free weights and a leg extension apparatus at the end of my bench.  I'm pretty much limited to lunges, squats, variations of squats, and leg extensions.

Also, does anyone else agree that full squats put undue stress on your lower back?  I have not experienced problems as of yet, but I am young and I haven't been lifting long.  I really like full squats because they hit the gluts really well.  In addition, a greater range of motion is always welcome as long as it doesn't result in injury.


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## Mudge (Jul 9, 2004)

Yep, PL is somewhat about putting up the big number, even if it is half way "cheating the system."


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 9, 2004)

Cheating?


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## madden player (Jul 9, 2004)

Saturday Fever said:
			
		

> Aside from ending up crippled?
> 
> OK let's look at it this way. I squat 540. By Olympic standards I'm damn near the world record. By real standards, I'm 601 pounds shy of the record. And the guy who hit the 1141 squat record isn't going to be crippled later in life by his pathetic form.


 
First of all olympic lifting doesn't include the squat.  The two lifts are the clean and jerk and the snatch.  They have to take that 540 lbs and take it from the floor to overhead in one power and explosive movement (snatch).

The clean and jerk is an other most impressive feat of strenth.

Watch these freaks, they are most explosive powerhouses on the planet.  I have been waiting for this olympic year.  The olympic lifting is always a must watch...these freaks are made for breaking records.

The olympic lifters are not going to be crippled from poor form...they were coached by the best...there skill level makes their exercises no more dangerous to their body than the typical body building routine to yours or mine.

BTW your 540 lb squat is awesome, but if the squat was a lift at the olympics they would bust records to bits every 4 years.


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## gopro (Jul 9, 2004)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Do you think it is enough stimulation that hypertrophy will result?  All I have are free weights and a leg extension apparatus at the end of my bench.  I'm pretty much limited to lunges, squats, variations of squats, and leg extensions.
> 
> Also, does anyone else agree that full squats put undue stress on your lower back?  I have not experienced problems as of yet, but I am young and I haven't been lifting long.  I really like full squats because they hit the gluts really well.  In addition, a greater range of motion is always welcome as long as it doesn't result in injury.



I think if its hypertrophy that you are after you should squat like a bodybuilder, not a powerlifter. Lunges, squats, and leg extensions alone can build huge quads, so don't sweat it.

Full squats will not give everyone a lower back problem, but if you do them I would hold the bar low on the traps and make a very conscious effort to keep your entire core tight during the entire lift. Done carelessly, all squats can injure the lower back.


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## Mudge (Jul 9, 2004)

Yep I find it much nicer to hold the bar low on the back but its hard for me to stretch like that   It helps my form and my reps though, but I can't get it very far back there.


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## CowPimp (Jul 9, 2004)

gopro said:
			
		

> I think if its hypertrophy that you are after you should squat like a bodybuilder, not a powerlifter. Lunges, squats, and leg extensions alone can build huge quads, so don't sweat it.
> 
> Full squats will not give everyone a lower back problem, but if you do them I would hold the bar low on the traps and make a very conscious effort to keep your entire core tight during the entire lift. Done carelessly, all squats can injure the lower back.



Thanks for the advice.  I have pretty good form on my full squats usually.  I may try PL style at some point when I give a PL routine a try, but I'll stick to BB style for the time being.


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## gopro (Jul 12, 2004)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Thanks for the advice.  I have pretty good form on my full squats usually.  I may try PL style at some point when I give a PL routine a try, but I'll stick to BB style for the time being.



There is nothing wrong with this. I worked out with powerlifters a few times (in 8 week cycles) during my lifting career. Its a good switch for mind and body, and usually ends up pushing some of your bodybuilding lifts up further.


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## CowPimp (Jul 12, 2004)

gopro said:
			
		

> There is nothing wrong with this. I worked out with powerlifters a few times (in 8 week cycles) during my lifting career. Its a good switch for mind and body, and usually ends up pushing some of your bodybuilding lifts up further.



Actually, I just had a revelation.  I'm doing your P-RR-S routine currently.  I have decided that after this cycle is over in a couple of weeks I am going to do my big 3 movements like powerlifters during power week and like a bodybuilder during rep range and shock weeks.  Hopefully I will get the best of both worlds this way.  Of course, I still plan on trying a PL routine eventually, but I thought this would be a decent middle ground for the time being.


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 12, 2004)

Who at Westside? I obviously look up to all those guys and I email with them often. (not that we're friends but they're always so quick and friendly to answer or shoot the shit)


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## gopro (Jul 13, 2004)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Actually, I just had a revelation.  I'm doing your P-RR-S routine currently.  I have decided that after this cycle is over in a couple of weeks I am going to do my big 3 movements like powerlifters during power week and like a bodybuilder during rep range and shock weeks.  Hopefully I will get the best of both worlds this way.  Of course, I still plan on trying a PL routine eventually, but I thought this would be a decent middle ground for the time being.



Sounds very good!


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## patbuck (Jul 19, 2004)

gopro said:
			
		

> My deadlift outgrew my squats rather quickly when I used to practice both. However, I have not squatted in about 4 years and only do rack deads these days.



What's the rack deadlift?


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## Mudge (Jul 19, 2004)

Deadlifting in a power rack with the bar just below the knees, removing the legs from the movement.


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## patbuck (Jul 19, 2004)

ok this will be done for the back and it won't be stiff leg?


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## Mudge (Jul 19, 2004)

In a rack dead you dont move your legs.


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 19, 2004)

I think that would depend where you started the pull from. If I stand 6'4 and only elevate the plates 6", I still have to use my legs.


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## gopro (Jul 20, 2004)

Saturday Fever said:
			
		

> I think that would depend where you started the pull from. If I stand 6'4 and only elevate the plates 6", I still have to use my legs.




True, plus you can easily vary the pull level at each workout and vary how much or little knee bend comes into play.


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## Mudge (Jul 20, 2004)

Saturday Fever said:
			
		

> I think that would depend where you started the pull from. If I stand 6'4 and only elevate the plates 6", I still have to use my legs.



Well thats why you set up the pins appropriately, I set them probably 4 inches below my knees and put my legs wide enough that I am not moving my knees.


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## patbuck (Jul 23, 2004)

Man you must have your leg very wide open. Because how can you have the bar below the knee and get it pass the knee as you lift without unbending the knee.

So do you unbend the knee just a little bit so the bar pass the knee and keep the knee flexed at the same position all the way up as you lift?


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## Saturday Fever (Jul 23, 2004)

If you're pulling your shoulders back and pushing your hips forward, you will generally clear your knees without trouble.

Though I have torn skin off my shins many times with these.


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## Downtown Guy (Jul 23, 2004)

*Rack Deads - Power Rack vs Smith Machine.*

Is the power rack preferable to the Smth machine when doing rack deads?


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## Premo55 (Jul 23, 2004)

QUOTE: I have decided that after this cycle is over in a couple of weeks I am going to do my big 3 movements like powerlifters during power week and like a bodybuilder during rep range and shock weeks.

This is exactly what I do, dude. I do movements like deads, cleans, snatches etc. on power week, and the more isolating movements on rr and s week. Honestly I try and make all my movements as complex as possible though. I actually made a lot of alterations to the plan (ie concentration curls, kickbacks, one arm shoulder press etc.) because I've never been a fan of those movements

Peace.


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## gopro (Jul 23, 2004)

Downtown Guy said:
			
		

> Is the power rack preferable to the Smth machine when doing rack deads?



Absolutely.


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