# Destroy and Flood



## jmorrison (Jun 7, 2010)

After reading CaptainNapalms thread at http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/training/110323-what-do-you-guys-think-routine.html

I read up a lot on this program and some variations.  This is exactly the type of training our high school football coach had us on waaaay back in the day, and it worked great.  However, I just thought that my success was because of the ol' raging teenage hormones.

I didn't post in his thread because I didn't want to hijack, but feedback would be greatly appreciated here.  I have altered the actual exercises due to being in a home gym and what equipment I have access to.

I realize that I have a high volume of training in here, but I will be assisted, so please keep that in mind.  Please attack this and help me set it up.

Day1	Push			
	Bench press/Dumbell Press/Flyes	5x5	4x8	3x20
	Squat/Lunges/Leg extension	             5x5	4x8	3x20
	Military Press/Arnies/Lateral raise	5x5	4x8	3x20

Day2	Pull			
	Deadlift/RDL/Good mornings	5x5	4x8	3x20
	Chins/Rows/lat pulldowns	5x5	4x8	3x20
	Cleans/Shrugs/Back flyes	5x5	4x8	3x20

Day3	Accessory			
	Forearms			
	Abs			
	Calves			
	Neck			
	Cardio	

Day4				
	Off

Day5	Repeat


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## Gazhole (Jun 7, 2010)

I've never tried it using three exercises in each D/F grouping so i can't comment on how well that would work.

Why not do some extra supersets rather than trisets?

I.e. - First 3 supersets are 3x5/3x20, second 3 are 3x8/3x30

Making 6 D+F supersets in the session, but slightly different. I should think being assisted will allow you to handle this. Normally that would be way too much, haha. Thats 36 sets in a session!


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## jmorrison (Jun 7, 2010)

My thought process was based on your article and
TMUSCLE.com | 3 Ways to Get Big!

I was attempting to hit the heavy lifting, volume work, and constant tension lifting mentioned in the T-nation article.

Think it is too much?  This is my first cycle, so not sure what I will be able to handle.

Do you think there is any harm in running it, and if I just feel too beat down, backing off of it?

And are the exercises basically correct for a good 2 day Push/Pull split?


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## Gazhole (Jun 7, 2010)

Ah right, i see. Cool.

I don't see any problem with hitting it hard then tailing it back off if you're not recovering right. So long as you make sure you're eating copious amounts of food i expect you'll be fine.

The other option is to go the other way and start off safe and increase as time goes on. Obviously, this is the safer option but you might waste time when you could have handled it just fine 

Exercise selection looks pretty comprehensive, too


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## jmorrison (Jun 7, 2010)

Well thanks Gaz, means alot coming from you bro!  I will give it a little bit and see how I feel.  I am planning on eating anything that cant outrun me, so this should be good.  I'll keep you posted.


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## Gazhole (Jun 7, 2010)

No problem, man! Keep me updated.

The only suggestion i have would be to put the accessory day in between the main weight training days, actually. Didn't think of that before but two straight up days of intense weight training might play havoc with your lower back.


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## rockhardly (Jun 7, 2010)

Gazhole said:


> The only suggestion i have would be to put the accessory day in between the main weight training days, actually. Didn't think of that before but two straight up days of intense weight training might play havoc with your lower back.



Took the words right outta my mouth.


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## jmorrison (Jun 7, 2010)

Good idea, swapped.


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## CaptainNapalm (Jun 7, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> After reading CaptainNapalms thread at http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/training/110323-what-do-you-guys-think-routine.html
> 
> I read up a lot on this program and some variations. This is exactly the type of training our high school football coach had us on waaaay back in the day, and it worked great. However, I just thought that my success was because of the ol' raging teenage hormones.
> 
> ...


 
Looks really good.  Definately going to be a tough program though... which is a good thing.


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## jmorrison (Jun 7, 2010)

I altered the reps a little and swapped the days around a bit.  New and improved?

Day1	Push			
	Bench press/Dumbell Press/Flyes	5x5	3x8	2x20
	Squat/Lunges/Leg extension	             5x5	3x8	2x20
	Military Press/Arnies/Lateral raise	5x5	3x8	2x20

Day2	Accessory			
	Forearms			
	Abs			
	Calves			
	Neck			
	Cardio	

Day3	Pull			
	Deadlift/RDL/Good mornings	5x5	3x8	2x20
	Chins/Rows/lat pulldowns	5x5	3x8	2x20
	Cleans/Shrugs/Back flyes	5x5	3x8	2x20

Day4				
	Off	

Day5	Repeat with Alternates ie: Incline bench	6x3	3x10	1x30


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## juggernaut (Jun 7, 2010)

I might give this a whirl after my modded 20 rep squat/dead routine when I bulk.


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## Gazhole (Jun 8, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> I altered the reps a little and swapped the days around a bit.  New and improved?
> 
> Day1    Push
> Bench press/Dumbell Press/Flyes    5x5    3x8    2x20
> ...




Yeah looks much better


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## juggernaut (Jun 8, 2010)

Most of the time, I get forearm work from tossing off. I have to alternate arms because one gets larger than the other.


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## Phineas (Jun 8, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> I altered the reps a little and swapped the days around a bit.  New and improved?
> 
> Day1	Push
> Bench press/Dumbell Press/Flyes	5x5	3x8	2x20
> ...



Maybe consider moving pull to day 1. With the forearm/grip training on day 2 that could interfere with your pulling. Pushing exercises require significantly less grip than pulling exercises. Just a thought.


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## aja44 (Jun 8, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> I altered the reps a little and swapped the days around a bit.  New and improved?
> 
> Day1	Push
> Bench press/Dumbell Press/Flyes	5x5	3x8	2x20
> ...



I will be starting my first cycle in September, and was looking for a Push/Pull routine to go along with it.  I really like the layout of this and if Gaz and Phineas like it, then I bet its a winner.  

My question is regarding your Repeat w/ Alternates example.  I noticed your sticking to a 5x5 for all the primary compound exercises and then moving the sets and reps for each exercise for the body part.  You changed from Flat to Incline bench on Day 5, but also modified your sets/reps.  Could you explain how you will be handling the next cycle or two with regards to changing the sets/reps or will you be sticking with a 5x5, 3x8, 2x20 every 4th days?


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## jmorrison (Jun 8, 2010)

Im not sure yet.

I think I will stick with what the original plan calls for unless I notice bodyparts lagging or feel like I am not making gains.

I am going to swap the pull/push day as Phineas suggested.  That makes sense.


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## jmorrison (Jun 8, 2010)

Final version?  Thanks for all the help fellas.

Day1	Pull			
	Deadlift/RDL/Good mornings	5x5	3x8	2x20
	Chins/Rows/lat pulldowns	5x5	3x8	2x20
	Cleans/Shrugs/Back flyes	5x5	3x8	2x20

Day2	Accessory			
	Forearms			
	Abs			
	Calves			
	Neck			
	Cardio	

Day3	Push			
	Bench press/Dumbell Press/Flyes	5x5	3x8	2x20
	Squat/Lunges/Leg extension	             5x5	3x8	2x20
	Military Press/Arnies/Lateral raise	5x5	3x8	2x20

Day4				
	Off	

Day5	Repeat with Alternates if lagging        6x3	3x10	1x30


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## jmorrison (Jun 16, 2010)

Hey Gaz, just an update.  Sort of tracking here:

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/anabolic-zone/110532-my-cute-lil-first-cycle-log.html

This is brutal, but I can tell you honestly that it is awesome.  I just finished round 2 and went up in weights significantly.  Of course I am cheating and assisted, but still, I feel like a beast.


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## Gazhole (Jun 17, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> Hey Gaz, just an update.  Sort of tracking here:
> 
> http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/anabolic-zone/110532-my-cute-lil-first-cycle-log.html
> 
> This is brutal, but I can tell you honestly that it is awesome.  I just finished round 2 and went up in weights significantly.  Of course I am cheating and assisted, but still, I feel like a beast.



Amazing news, dude! Will take a look at your log now!

Has your bodyweight changed much?


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## roastchicken (Jun 17, 2010)

Is this setup so that you are performing 2 fullbody sessions a week? and are these exercises tri-sets performed for example - deadlift 5 reps, RDL 8 reps and GM 20 reps and then rest and repeat ?

This seems to resemble charles poliquins Advanced German Body Composition Method which i think you will find a great read , he follows a 3 day split a bit different from what your doing here but man it is awesome and i can really testify for its effectiveness on putting on muscle. This is a slightly modified version, However it was modified by a Level 3 PICP coach so i'm sure CP would approve.

The Advanced GBC Program

Perform 2 body parts per session with 3 exercises per body part performed in a tri-set fashion with a maximum of 10 seconds rest between movements and a rest period of 2 minute between sets (A1-A2-A3-2min-repeat). Following the correct exercise tempo is essential so is keeping rest periods. The Intensity should be 6RM,12RM AND 25RM respectively and the goal here is to complete all circuits with the same load however a 10% reduction set to set is likely initially. Always strive to increase the weight used without compromising form !  GOOD LUCK  

Use the following split:

Day One: Chest and Back
Day Two: Legs
Day Three: Off
Day Four: Shoulders and Arms
Day Five: Off
Repeat

The cycle is meant to be performed 6 times. Doing it longer will result in diminishing returns.

An example of Leg day would follow:

A1. Back Squats - 6 reps - tempo 40X0 (4 secs eccentric, pause, explode on concentric)
A2. Walking Lunges - 12 reps (per leg) - tempo 20X0
A3. Front Squats(heels elevated) - 25 reps - tempo 10X0
Rest 2 minute
x3

B1. Lying Leg Curl (feet plantarflexed on eccentric/dorsiflexed on concentric) - 6 reps - tempo 40X0
B2. RDL - 12 reps - tempo 20X0
B3. Seated Leg Curl - 25 reps - tempo 10X0
Rest 2 minute
x3

An example of Chest and Back day would follow:

A1. Incline Bench Press - 6 reps - tempo 40X0
A2. Weighted Dips (Deep repetitions with forward lean) - 12 reps - tempo 20X0
A3. Cable Flyes - 25 reps - tempo 10X0
Rest 2 minute
x3

B1. Weighted Chins - 6 reps - tempo 40X0
B2. Bent Over Rows - 12 reps - tempo 20X0
B3. Straight arm rope pulldowns - 25 reps - tempo 10X0
Rest 2 minute
x3

Use your favourites on Arm and Shoulder day !

Additional Notes:

• If you work out at a commercial gym, you might be hampered by slackers and fat cows who steal your exercise stations. As such, you may need to improvise and do different movements.

• Strive to do each circuit 3 times per workout. Progress to 4 circuits per workout after two or three weeks.

• Use a 40X0 tempo on the sets of 6; a 20X0 tempo on the sets of 12; and a 10X0 tempo on the sets of 25.

• You must use the entire 2-minute rest period. If you do not, you might not be able to use sufficient weight (or complete the prescribed reps), thus affecting lactate production

• Doing fewer reps tha what is prescribed will not elicit enough lactate and consequently not produce enough GH.

+Grab a BUCKET


ROAST


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## jmorrison (Jun 17, 2010)

This one is actually setup for 3-4 FBW's in a week, since I am assisted, but I can easily see staying on this afterwards, and just taking it down to 2-3.  Really brutal routine, but I like it!

I am not doing them as Tri-sets simply because I need some left over energy for the heavy compounds.  For example, day 1 I will do Deadlift 5x5, then Chins, then cleans, then onto the second set of exercises.

Gaz, my bodyweight has gone up roughly 15lbs in a week, but it is almost all water I'm sure!  I will keep it updated.


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## roastchicken (Jun 17, 2010)

sounds like yu got some good training ahead of you, I hope the anabolic gods are good to you . 

lol bit of a wasted post then , i hope someone found that post on GBC useful tho! 

R


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## jmorrison (Jun 17, 2010)

Not wasted at all bro!  Great post, and after I come off I will be looking to modify this routine to something more manageable anyway!  This is great, but no way I could do this unassisted.  I was crippled the day after the initial workout, intense DOMS, and then went UP on all lifts 3 days later lmao.  This is FUN.


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## beginnerbb (Jun 17, 2010)

i am interested i giving this routine a try, it say do just 1-3 reps? is that all u need to do for the destroy portion?


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## jmorrison (Jun 17, 2010)

I think I would still stick with 5x5 for the destroy, but take it easier on the other 2 sets.  Hopefully Gaz can chime in on that.  He already has a D&F program put together for non-assisted lifters.


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## beginnerbb (Jun 17, 2010)

i'd really appreciate it if gaz could post the routine for non-assisted lifters or if anyone else knows it post it up here, on his site it just has 2 sets one destroy of 1-3 and one flood approx 20 reps?


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## jmorrison (Jun 17, 2010)

Captainnapalm has one up at 
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/training/110323-what-do-you-guys-think-routine.html

See if thats what you are looking for.


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## beginnerbb (Jun 17, 2010)

yeah thats similar to what i was looking for, has anyone had any success with this kind of training? 3-4 heavy reps doesnt seem like much


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## Gazhole (Jun 17, 2010)

The regular routine is on my website here:

http://getlifting.info/?p=18

Had about half a dozen people (that i know of) see good results from this program. I thought it was great when i was doing it. Hurts like a bitch though.

Btw, if you think 3-4 heavy reps isn't hard enough you're not lifting enough weight


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## CaptainNapalm (Jun 17, 2010)

Kick ass program.  I just executed my first few sessions on this program.  Intend to run it for 6 weeks.  Not exactly the same as posted here by jmorrison but similar.  I posted it a while back under seperate thread and I think there is a link to it in this original post.  Found it a bit tricky to find the right weight for the 20 rep superset, kind of over estimated my ability and had to cop out on the last set after 12-16 reps for a few exercises but the pump and burn was unbelievable.  Very curious what benefits it will bring at the end of 6 weeks.  It's definately a tough workout.  Keep us posted on your progress with it JM


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## jmorrison (Jun 23, 2010)

My overall strength has gone through the roof.  But I am cheating lol.  All lifts have gone up by at least 10lbs in 2 weeks, most have gone up 20+.


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## Phineas (Jun 23, 2010)

I really want to do this program in a few months, but the logistics are problematic. I train at our local YMCA. It's a 3 storie building with a lot of equipment. Unfortunately, the squat racks are in a seperate room from the leg extension and leg curl machine, though on the same floor. I could do it but I would have to do it with my training partner. One would have to hold the machine while the other squats, then we'd have to literally run across the gym and trade. I don't know how this would work. All the other supersets would be fine, though.


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## jmorrison (Jun 23, 2010)

I dont do it like that, but I may be doing it wrong.  

Take Push day for example.  

I do 5x5 squat, then 5x5 Bench, then 5x5 Military, then 3x8 Lunges, 3x8 Dumbell Press, 3x8 Arnies etc etc.  That way I have the energy to make my big lifts.  I dont think that the program is dependent on doing them back to back, as it is 3 separate ways to build muscle.

Maybe I am doing it jacked up, hopefully Gaz will chime in, but from what I was understanding it is correct, and I am making huge strides.  But hell, being assisted, I could probably chew gum and get stronger.


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## CaptainNapalm (Jun 23, 2010)

I'm on my second week of destroy and flood.  Enjoying this program quite a bit.  I think the program is intended to be executed in a way where immediately following your 3 reps on a heavy lift you execute a superset (flood) on the same muscle for 20-30 reps or failure without having a chance to recover from the heavy set.  That's the way I'm doing it and it's what really makes this program brutally difficult and quite taxing on the system.


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## CaptainNapalm (Jun 23, 2010)

Phineas said:


> I really want to do this program in a few months, but the logistics are problematic. I train at our local YMCA. It's a 3 storie building with a lot of equipment. Unfortunately, the squat racks are in a seperate room from the leg extension and leg curl machine, though on the same floor. I could do it but I would have to do it with my training partner. One would have to hold the machine while the other squats, then we'd have to literally run across the gym and trade. I don't know how this would work. All the other supersets would be fine, though.


 
I know what you mean.  I always feel ridiculous rushing accross the gym after my 3 heavy squat reps to execute the flood portion on the leg extension machine.


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## Phineas (Jun 23, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> I dont do it like that, but I may be doing it wrong.
> 
> Take Push day for example.
> 
> ...



I think the idea is to actually superset the compounds and isolation, hence the name destroy and flood (i.e. "pump").


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## jmorrison (Jun 24, 2010)

I have based the routine on both Gaz's Destroy and flood along with 
TMUSCLE.com | 3 Ways to Get Big!

Excerpt:

*Arranging the Methods into a Workout

Here's a good rule: You should always put the more CNS-demanding stuff early in the workout. Heavier exercises and more complex exercises involve the CNS more. So in a workout using all three methods you should use this order:

1. Heavy movement using a big compound exercise (bench press, squat, Romanian deadlift, military press, rowing)

2. Intermediate movement (dumbbell press, leg press, lunges, reverse hyper, glute-ham raise, wide stance leg press) for sets in the 8-12 reps range

3. Isolation exercise using constant tension for sets lasting 40-70 seconds (12 to 15 slow, tensed reps)

The second rule is that the lower the reps per set, the more sets you do. Good arrangements for each muscle include: 

CHEST — BEGINNER

A. Decline bench press

5-6 sets of 6-8 reps
2 minutes of rest between sets

B. Incline DB (dumbbell) press

4-5 sets of 10-12 reps
90 seconds of rest between sets

C. Cable crossover

3-4 sets of 12-15 constant tension reps
60 seconds of rest 
*

I am just not seeing it that this is designed as a Tri-set.  Especially when it is specifically advocating 2mins of rest between heavy sets and 1min-1.5 min for accumulation periods and so on.  

The article suggests that there are 3 ways to build muscle, and gives examples of building a workout around all 3, and addresses them separately.

Not arguing fellas, just looking for guidance.  As I said, I am getting stellar results, but am always open to further ideas!


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## rockhardly (Jun 24, 2010)

Eric Broser had an article on a program he calls fd/fs.  I did it for 3 weeks.  Same kinda thing.  Might give you some more ideas.


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## CaptainNapalm (Jun 24, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> I have based the routine on both Gaz's Destroy and flood along with
> TMUSCLE.com | 3 Ways to Get Big!
> 
> Excerpt:
> ...


 
Looks sweet


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