# Rich Piana and Ric Drasin Talks About GH and IGF-1



## Keyser Soze (Jun 5, 2013)




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## Mudge (Jun 5, 2013)

I don't look to Rich for "scientific advice" but I like him, I'll give it a watch.


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## Keyser Soze (Jun 6, 2013)

Not all but some is interesting,,.....


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## collinb (Jun 6, 2013)

Injecting GH or PEPs into abdomin fat causes the extended stomachs?
His beliefs are a little off, but hes got a few good points.


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## Keyser Soze (Jun 6, 2013)

collinb said:


> Injecting GH or PEPs into abdomin fat causes the extended stomachs?
> His beliefs are a little off, but hes got a few good points.



What else makes it ??   

The slin ??  Some dont so its hard to say i guess


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## collinb (Jun 6, 2013)

This only occurs from IGF binding to receptors on the intestinal wall.  Your body has the highest number of receptors there and IGF , be it from LR3 or gh, will cause those cells to saturate and grow in size if used in high doses or for too long.  It doesn't make your stomach muscles grow by injecting it into your stomach, it happens no matter what as the processes are systematic


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## World-Pharma.org (Jun 6, 2013)

but guy still need some diet he is not even close to ripped!


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## World-Pharma.org (Jun 6, 2013)

*and for sure this guy need to talk how to inject synthol,since his arms are full of that shit! *


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## J.thom (Jun 7, 2013)

World-Pharma.org said:


> *and for sure this guy need to talk how to inject synthol,since his arms are full of that shit! *



ha ha I think he already has a synthol vid out


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## Machmood (Jun 7, 2013)

Rich is the first to tell you it's his thoughts/theory. He tells you what he's tried and what works for him. He never claims to be backed by science or even have the best way. He just talks straight about what he does . If you watch the video he comes off as genuine


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## Mike Arnold (Jun 7, 2013)

Machmood said:


> Rich is the first to tell you it's his thoughts/theory. He tells you what he's tried and what works for him. He never claims to be backed by science or even have the best way. He just talks straight about what he does . If you watch the video he comes off as genuine



From what I am hearing from him, whenever someone disagrees with him...or contradicts his "theory" with science (in addition to experience), he attacks them, saying they don't know what they are talking about because they are only repeating what they heard. Obviously, there are a LOT of guys online...and he's right that many of them don't know much, but a decent portion which are indeed very knowldgable, so this does not apply to everyone.

Here are my thoughts on some of what he said...


1.)  Rick:  "All IGF-1 is fake!"  

There have been many opinions on the quality of IGF-1 on the market today...and as someone with considerable experience not only with personal use, but in working for multiple peptide companies, forming close associations within the industry, and recieving feedback from literally 100's if not 1,000's of people who have used these products at this point, I have STRONG views on the subject.  First of all, it is important to differentiate between the various types of IGF-1 today, of which there are two primary types in use (for the most pat).  These are DES and LR3.  I have used DES from numerous companies and have had MANY bad experiences.  Like Rich, I have often wondered if there was any legitimate DES (I am assuming he is referring to DES, as LR3 should not be used pre-workout) in the products at all, as they appeared to do absolutely nothing.  Only once did I use a DES product which seemed to work.  So, in my opinion there is only one of two things going on here.  Either there is real DES in these products and DES just doesn't work very well...or it is fake and/or severely under-dosed.  I believe the latter is the case.

Now, it is a different story with LR3 altogethr.  On many occasions I have used LR3 which did indeed work well...and on more than one occasion samples from these batches were submitted for labwork with positive results.  Of couse, I do not believe all LR3 is good, but it is certainly NOT impossible to find by any means.

2.)  Rich: "GH is the same thing as IGF-1"

Not even close.  IGF-1 and GH are tow seperate compounds, which supply entirely different effects in the body.  However, GH will elevate IGF-1 levels by increasing production of liver-made IGF-1.  This IGF-1 is systematic in nature and affects the entire body.  I won't even begin to elucidate on the differences between these 2 compounds, other than to say they are quite diverse in their effects, working to elicit change through different mechnaims entirely.  

3.)  Rich:  "IGF-1 is better"

Define better?  Better for stimulating protein syntheis?  Yes, absolutely.  GH itself, while providing some direct anabolic activity, is relatively inactive in this respect, instead achieving the majority of its growth promoting effects indirectly via liver produced IGF-1. So, using exogenous GH will assist with growth, but it is not due directly to the GH molecule itself.  In terms olf lipolysis, GH is far superior, accelerating lipolysis on dose-dependent basis.  When looking at IGF-1, we see a compound which does a rather poor job of increasing lipolysis.  When looking at these 2 peptides overall, GH is certainly the more comprehensive compound, supplying a wide range of effects, while IGF-1 can be viewed as a more targeted peptide, which enhances growth through both its insulin-like activity, as well as playing a role in the complex proliferation-differentiation process.  The "better" hormone is the one which provides the effects the indvidual is most looking for.

4.)  Rich:  "Abdominal injections of GH have led to the distension we see in BB'rs today"
.
Injecting GH diretcly into the muscle does not have a local growth promoting effect.  Rich surmises that GH's ability to cause lipolysis at the injection site is a sign that it will also cause growth at the injection site.  This theory is flawed in its approach, it is reflects an improper understanding of the mechanisms by which GH causes both fat loss and muscle growth.  GH causes fat loss at the injection site simply because the GH molecule itself exhibits lipolytic activity.  Therefore, by administering an injection directly into a lump of fat cells, the rate of lipolysis in that area will increase disproportionately to the rest of the body.  However, in oder for the GH molecule to promote muscle growth, it must first enter into circulation and travel to the liver, where liver mediated IGF-1 production will then takes place. Once IGF-1 production has been stimulated, the resultant IGF-1 will enter into the bloodstream, where it effects will become systematic, attaching to any receptor sites it comes in contact with without partilality.

5.)  Rich:  "Slin is not dangerois if you know what youlre doing".

I agree with this for the most part.  Of course, there will always be risk factors present, but by and large, insulin can be administered safely by those who possess the requisite level of knowledge.

6.)  Rich:  "Taking GH before bed will hinder endogenous GH release"

This is correct.  Exogenous GH has a rather long active life in the body.  Therefore, it is best administered in the am "IF" the indvidual is seeking to simultaneously capitolize on both his exogenous use and endogenous production.  However, for those guys using large amounts of exogeous Gh, it makes little difference.  As far as whether or not to use Gh on an empty stomach, it depends on the user's priorities.  If the user wants to take full advantge of Gh's fat los effects, then by all means, take it on an empty stomach, as it is not possible to maximize oxidation when blood sufar is levated, which will occur after a meal.  



Again, overall, I find Rich to be an interesting guy, but I would HIGHLY suggest that he does some research on the topics he is going to discuss before going on the show, as this will ultimately gain him more respect as an advisor.


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## Machmood (Jun 7, 2013)

I 100% get what your saying. Here's why I like rich. He's a bro scientist but atleast he lets you know from the start. He has HIS OWN theories right or wrong , but it's what he thinks and he lets you know that. Anyway it's still cool to see a guy like him actually talk about this stuff to th public


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## collinb (Jun 7, 2013)

He can share his ideas and theories all he wants, but listening to him when hes wrong does NO ONE any good.

Just because he is a big guy doesnt mean hes doing things right.  I am glad he talks in the open like this and I wish it would occur more often, but he needs to get more details and information about what he talks about first so he isnt misguiding masses of people.


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## Mike Arnold (Jun 7, 2013)

collinb said:


> He can share his ideas and theories all he wants, but listening to him when hes wrong does NO ONE any good.
> 
> Just because he is a big guy doesnt mean hes doing things right. I am glad he talks in the open like this and I wish it would occur more often, but he needs to get more details and information about what he talks about first so he isnt misguiding masses of people.




Exactly...because I gaurantee that there will be 100's, if not 1,000's of people listening to these interviews and taking what he says to heart.  They will automatically assume what he says is correct simply because he is a "big" guy.


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## Keyser Soze (Jun 8, 2013)

J.thom said:


> ha ha I think he already has a synthol vid out


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## Machmood (Jun 8, 2013)

On YouTube just click the more from tab and you'll get about 10 rich piana videos. I think his training talk is pretty dead on as far as natural training goes. His drug talk seems hit or miss atleast as to what the science tells us. There's something to be said for 20+ years experience. Lol I'm still using hcg while on though


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## heavyiron (Jun 8, 2013)

Legit and reasonably priced IGF-1 is fairly easy to find so he must be out of the loop if he says its all fake.


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## hypo_glycemic (Jun 8, 2013)

It's really hard to find IGF1. there's a reason docs, endocrinologist etc..have a hard time finding it for a reasonable price. i know Rich very well for a long time and he's really not a bro scientist! dude has been competing for almost 30 years--up until his last show in 2011. he has tons and tons of knowledge. if i was going to ask a question about insulin, i'd ask Rich. he's extremely smart and has been running things like IGF1 and slin, GH for more years than he eluded too. i stood next to him on stage in a super heavy class--he's scary to compete against. his legs were once the best in the sport. now Ric Drasin is a chump!!!!


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## collinb (Jun 8, 2013)

hypo_glycemic said:


> It's really hard to find IGF1. there's a reason docs, endocrinologist etc..have a hard time finding it for a reasonable price. i know Rich very well for a long time and he's really not a bro scientist! dude has been competing for almost 30 years--up until his last show in 2011. he has tons and tons of knowledge. if i was going to ask a question about insulin, i'd ask Rich. he's extremely smart and has been running things like IGF1 and slin, GH for more years than he eluded too. i stood next to him on stage in a super heavy class--he's scary to compete against. his legs were once the best in the sport. now Ric Drasin is a chump!!!!



Not that hard to find when you can buy one and get it tested and see the results...Alpha on PM tested many IGF and there were a few scoring very very well.  You wont be looking at pure IGF-1, we are talking about LR3.  I agree you won't find IGF the one that lasts seconds but causes true hyperplasia....but you can easily find DES or LR3


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## World-Pharma.org (Jun 8, 2013)

*Mike you are all 100% right...*


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## Mike Arnold (Jun 13, 2013)

heavyiron said:


> Legit and reasonably priced IGF-1 is fairly easy to find so he must be out of the loop if he says its all fake.



Exactly.


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## Mike Arnold (Jun 13, 2013)

hypo_glycemic said:


> *It's really hard to find IGF1. *there's a reason docs, endocrinologist etc..have a hard time finding it for a reasonable price. i know Rich very well for a long time and he's really not a bro scientist! dude has been competing for almost 30 years--up until his last show in 2011. he has tons and tons of knowledge. if i was going to ask a question about insulin, i'd ask Rich. he's extremely smart and has been running things like IGF1 and slin, GH for more years than he eluded too. i stood next to him on stage in a super heavy class--he's scary to compete against. his legs were once the best in the sport. now Ric Drasin is a chump!!!!



See bold above:  No...it's not...and anyone who says it is is "out of the loop" as HI says....and yes, most docs would have a hard time finding it for a cheap price, as they go to "pharmacies" for their IGF-1, while BB'rs don't get their IGF-1 from big-pharma.  It's no different than steroids.  Anadrol from an American pharm costs $25 per pill...per fucking pill!  Using Rich's logic, we should not be able to find Anadrol for an inexpensive price simply because big pharms sells their's for $25 a tab.  

Legs the "best" in the sport?  Come on, bro.  Platz...Demayo...Mustaffa Mohhamed...Ronnie...Branch...Pacman....not to mention Cutler and Kai Greene.  I just covered the last 30 years BB'ing, with each of these BB'rs arguably possessing the biggest and/or best legs of their time.  If you can find a single pic of Rich with legs showing up any of these BB'rs at anytime in the last 30 years, I will believe you.


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## Mike Arnold (Jun 13, 2013)

collinb said:


> Not that hard to find when you can buy one and get it tested and see the results...Alpha on PM tested many IGF and there were a few scoring very very well. You wont be looking at pure IGF-1, we are talking about LR3. I agree you won't find IGF the one that lasts seconds but causes true hyperplasia....but you can easily find DES or LR3



Agreed, but I would not use the word "pure", as it infers that LR3 or DES are not real IGF-1.  They are, just different (and superior) forms of it. Regular IGF-1 doesn't realy work very well unless you take a TON of it.  LR3 produced very noticable results within just a month or two.  I have not had any real luck with DES.  I have used many brands...and none of them really did much of anything...even when using 500 mcg per day!!!  In contrast, LR3 produced very noticable results at just 100 mcg daily...and I noticed increases in muscle fullness within just 2-3 days.  Have you had any results with DES?


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## s2h (Jun 13, 2013)

interesting video....IMO he should use a disclaimer if not for personal reasons but so that viewers dont just "do it"..

what he says is true in someways and "real world" experience is hard to beat..issue i have is how vague the topics are..like the IGF?..what kind of IGF?..what was the protocol?..

the GH comments on abdominal extension are clearly way off base(mike touched on that)..

Give him a A for effort and C for content...


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