# Trapezius training



## LexusGS (Sep 10, 2005)

How would i train the part inside the black circle?
Any exercises that would make that part thicker? Im not too concerned about working the upper traps, so is there any exercises that can isolate or work that part of the trap?


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## Mudge (Sep 10, 2005)

Heavy hard deadlifts are popular in many circles.


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## Squaggleboggin (Sep 10, 2005)

That's what I do, and, pertaining to the squat discussion, the bar doesn't bother me.


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## LexusGS (Sep 10, 2005)

what do you mean "in many circles"?


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## furion joe (Sep 10, 2005)

Barbell and dumbell rows, and dumbell shrugs will hit that region as well.  

Experiment and find what works best for you...


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## Squaggleboggin (Sep 10, 2005)

He means that in many groups of athletes (or circles), they are successful in building their traps with heavy deadlifts.


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## CowPimp (Sep 10, 2005)

Compound pulling movements and deadlifts.  Olympic lifting is also a great way to tear up muscles all throughout your back.


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## Mudge (Sep 10, 2005)

Yep, circle being groups of people - not circles in your picture.


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## swordfish (Sep 10, 2005)

heavy deads and heavy shrugs.


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## P-funk (Sep 10, 2005)

pulldowns, vertical scapular retraction, pullovers.....basically you need to do things that depress the scapula to hit the lower traps.  The mid traps can be hit by things that cause the scapula to adduct...like cabel rows, rowing etc....to hit the upper traps shrugs, upright rows, anything that raises the scapula.

Ofcourse deadlifting will make them all work just to stabalize the scapula throughout the movement.


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## Mudge (Sep 10, 2005)

Patrick you are speaking of behind the neck pulldowns specifically right?


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## P-funk (Sep 10, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> Patrick you are speaking of behind the neck pulldowns specifically right?




no, any pulldowns.  Anything that places your arms above your head, which will elevate the scapula, on the eccentric because you need to then depress the scapula on the concentric portion.  Even pulldowns to the front have scapular depression.  Also, you are getting a great deal more scapular internal rotation on the behind the neck press it would probably get the line of pull of the lower trap better, but the risk is great than the reward.


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## Platinum (Sep 10, 2005)

T-Bar rows


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## CowPimp (Sep 11, 2005)

P-funk said:
			
		

> no, any pulldowns.  Anything that places your arms above your head, which will elevate the scapula, on the eccentric because you need to then depress the scapula on the concentric portion.  Even pulldowns to the front have scapular depression.  Also, you are getting a great deal more scapular internal rotation on the behind the neck press it would probably get the line of pull of the lower trap better, but the risk is great than the reward.



So then pullups would also achieve the same result, no?


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## P-funk (Sep 11, 2005)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> So then pullups would also achieve the same result, no?




yes, the lower and to some degree the middel traps are hit with pull ups.  When people say traps they usually are only talking about the upper traps which raise the scapula (shrugs).  It seems everyone forgets that the muscle is a diamond shaped muscle which spans a large portion of the back and attaches at different points on the scapula to serve different functions.  YTA's are also a great exercise to hit that trap region.


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## LexusGS (Sep 11, 2005)

thanks for that info guys.
P-funk, sorry if this sounds dumb, but what are YTA's?
sorry, I'm still a noob.


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## Squaggleboggin (Sep 11, 2005)

Basically you lay down on the floor, and put your arms up towards your head to make the "Y" shape. Then you move them down for the "T" shape and further down for the "A" shape. They're very good for shoulders and stabilizer muscles within the shoulder, and of course traps if that's what P-funk says.


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## P-funk (Sep 11, 2005)

yea, if you do a search I have posted it a ton of times.


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## CowPimp (Sep 11, 2005)

LexusGS said:
			
		

> thanks for that info guys.
> P-funk, sorry if this sounds dumb, but what are YTA's?
> sorry, I'm still a noob.



http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=42DB1278285E58A8887161B3F773A588.hydra?id=746517

Somewhere in that article they explain something called YTWLs, which I assume are the same kind of thing.


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## BUA (Sep 11, 2005)

i have been doing shrugs and my trapezius are building up!
but how do i stop the dbs from rubbing against me!


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## CowPimp (Sep 11, 2005)

BUA said:
			
		

> i have been doing shrugs and my trapezius are building up!
> but how do i stop the dbs from rubbing against me!



Try doing incline shrugs.  That's where you lay on a bench that is angled so your arms hang in front of you a little bit.


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## Mudge (Sep 11, 2005)

This is getting good.


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## Mudge (Sep 11, 2005)

∙





> T,Y, A's- These get their name from the way you look as you perfrom the exercise. Lying face down on the ground, to perform a "T", your arms are out at your side (at shoulder level), with palms facing down you are going to pinch your shoulder blades together, lifting your arms up off the floor. An "A" is perfromed in the same manner, face down on the floor, but this time arms are down at your sides, palms facing the ceiling this time, and you again are going to squeeze your shoulder blads together, raising your arms up and tunr your thumbs to the ceiling like you are hitch hiking (externally rotating the shoulder). Lastly, "Y"'s are done with your arms up in a "y" shape above your head (lying face down on the floor). This time thumbs are facing up at the ceiling. Squeeze the shoulder blades again, raising arms up off the floor. You can combine each movement. Usually I have people lie face down and start with a Y and pick thier arms up off the floor (squeezing the shoulder blades together). Hold for a sec then keeping the arms up (they never touch the ground again) move into a T. Pause and hold for a sec and then move to an A from there, making sure to squeex the shoulder blades, thumbs to the ceiling and trying to pull you hands and scapula "into your back pocket". For more advanced moves try doing them on a stability ball (I like them like this for mylself).


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## P-funk (Sep 11, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> This is getting good.




it is?


anyway, working the lower traps is a good idea because it keeps the scapula down and helps to prevent that shrugged/rounded shoulder look that most peopel display these days.  Also, stronger scapular stabalizers helps to reduce the risk of injury and various impingements that can occur around the shoulder joint.


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## Mudge (Sep 11, 2005)

For me, because I know I have weak points. My back is good in some spots, weak in others. My dead is ok, my squat sucks compared to my leg presses, yada yada.

I hit my lower back, I hit my abs, and still I'm stuck. I hit up a few of the T-zone articles and will try to add some in. Also as you may know I've been stuck for about a year with some slight ups and downs, but my body seems to be saying something is missing hence holding me back.

The pain which seems to be a nerve in the right side of my neck and back is also back, worse than previously. It seems to happen after shrugging movements, now its not just barbell that does it to me though. I also sleep primarily on my right side right now which could be making it worse, especially where I move my arm at night perhaps, dunno. Supposedly I also should be curling more than I do for a 1RM which also hints at core problems.


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## P-funk (Sep 11, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> The pain which seems to be a nerve in the right side of my neck and back is also back, worse than previously. It seems to happen after shrugging movements, now its not just barbell that does it to me though. Supposedly I also should be curling more than I do for a 1RM which also hints at core problems.




work on, aside from your lower traps, your shoulder flexability.  You need to loosen up the shoulder girdle a little bit and give everything more room to work. There are a lot of muscle (17) that cross the glenohumeral joint.  There is not a lot of room to work around there and if you are shrugged or anterior dominat (which most people are from years of bench pressing like you do/did) you could really be feeling those nerves getting pinched.

It will be important for you to stretch not only your pecs but your lats (also strong internal rotators) which are probably tightened up.  If you can get a foam roller (don't know if they have one at your gym) and roll out your upper back and even your lat near were it crosses the sholder (you can kind of roll around your armpit) that will help to "un-knot" you.  Other than that stretching the shoulder joint from each plane will help.  Here is a pretty basic article with pictures that can get you on your way:

shoulder stretching


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## Mudge (Sep 11, 2005)

Crap dude even before I got "strong" and was serious about weights for a given length of time people have always said I was uptight in the upper trap area. Everyone seems to say that my posture is good though so I thought my shoulders were ok, but I will definitely dig around.

I also have been getting back into lower and upper body stretching because I have lost some flexibilty AND mobility most definitely.

I do have about a 2 inch diameter wood roller at home from an old closet, would that be ok to use?


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## P-funk (Sep 11, 2005)

Mudge said:
			
		

> Crap dude even before I got "strong" and was serious about weights for a given length of time people have always said I was uptight in the upper trap area. Everyone seems to say that my posture is good though so I thought my shoulders were ok, but I will definitely dig around.
> 
> I also have been getting back into lower and upper body streching because I have lost some flexibilty AND mobility most definitely.
> 
> I do have about a 2 inch diameter wood roller at home from an old closet, would that be ok to use?




maybe...but it is hard to roll yourself on that.  You need something that gives a little at first because if you are really tight, it will probably hurt pretty bad.  There are times that I get tears in my eyes rolling out my IT band.  The rollers are cheap.  You can get them at performbetter.com   
the foam roller 



here is an article on how to use them.  Lats and Rhomboid techniques are at the bottom of the artice.

SMF techniques 



I am really tight too.  Sonce I have dropped benching for the past 2.5 months I am losening up more.  When I go to perform my snatches I actually will snatch the bar into place, sit in my deep squat in the bottom position for about 4-5 sec to stretch and then I will purposly let my arms rotate all the way back and dump the bar behind me in the squat position just to loosen up my shoulders.


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## Mudge (Sep 11, 2005)

I think the last time I had more than a 30 second massage was friggin 7 years ago, I'll have to pick one of these up.


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## LexusGS (Sep 11, 2005)

Mudge, have you seen any results when you started using the benching technique that Dave Tate uses?


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## P-funk (Sep 11, 2005)

LexusGS said:
			
		

> Mudge, have you seen any results when you started using the benching technique that Dave Tate uses?




speaking of dave tate.......he wrote a recent article titled "just because you have a blackberry doesn'y mean you are mobile" or something to that effect.  It is at elitefts.com.  You might get something out of it Mudge.  It is about dave tate's pre-hab work that he does which is all mobility (aka active stretching) exercises.  I incorporate a lot of this before/after my workouts and on days off and it makes your joints feel really great.


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## Mudge (Sep 11, 2005)

LexusGS said:
			
		

> Mudge, have you seen any results when you started using the benching technique that Dave Tate uses?



If you mean from the thread I posted long ago, I went from a raw of 265 to 425 during that time. So I guess I added a few dimes to the bar. Initial gain was about 15 pounds though.

Funk (formerly known as P-funk), there are others who rave about stretching too so I have been trying to force myself to get back into it. I used to be able to do the splits in high school and now even touching my head to my knees is a painfull challenge.


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## LexusGS (Sep 11, 2005)

Holy crap, thanks for the encouragement Mudge, I'll give that a try tomorrow.


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## Mudge (Sep 11, 2005)

Mainly it helped me progress without continuing to hurt my shoulders.


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## LexusGS (Sep 12, 2005)

i hope it helps me aswell, because the way i bench now i feel most pressure toward my anterior deltoids rather then chest and tris. We'll see what happens.


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