# Best Cardio: 200m Sprint or a 3 mile Jog?



## Testosterone (Apr 17, 2004)

I've been jogging/running 3-4 miles 3 times a week early morning and in the evening for quite sometime now. Although there has been dramatic fat loss but the serious side effect is that I've lost plenty of my power of late. Although I'm on good diet and consume 45g Whey Protein immediately after cardio without carbs, still I lose plenty of power when I'm on this type of Cardio. This cardio takes about 30 minutes non-stop.

I intend to change this routine and shrink this routine into highly intense 2-3 minutes routine which will be 2-3 sprints of 200m each. 

Will this prevent the Muscle loss & Strength loss problem and still give me as good as results as my previous routine?
If not necessarily true, What precautions do I have to take in my first routine so that I do not lose my muscle size and strength?

I welcome all opinions of experienced athletes.


----------



## atherjen (Apr 17, 2004)

I am a HUGE advocate of sprinting!!  
I have been doing them for years... since I was 13 I remember correctly. They do wonders to your legs in recompositiong than simple running or steady cardio. Ever seen the legs of Olympic spinters vs. runners??  Not only can you build more power with them but IMO the overall metabolism kick that you get from these is very beneficial to any dieter. Ive read a few studies somewhere explaining how sprinting had anabolic effect vs prolonged cardio being somewhat catabolic. 

precautions? make sure you do a light warmup prior, stretch only LIGHTLY(leave the length stretching after sprints/cooldown). Ease your way into them, dont go ALL out the first few goes. Make sure you have a quality pair of supportive sneakers as well. Oh and dont drink ALOT of water either-sip it. too much in your stomach and you'll puke it out! 
last note-be ready to sweat like crazy.


----------



## P-funk (Apr 17, 2004)

defenitly sprints over long duration cardio for me as well.


----------



## kvyd (Apr 17, 2004)

ive read also sprinting can have effects on core strength and the fat loss brings abs right out


----------



## Testosterone (Apr 17, 2004)

So, do you compare Sprinting to a high intensity training?
If yes, what would a post sprint drink would be? - Simple Protein or Protein + Carbs. I'm afraid if Post Sprint Shake which will include carbs conflict with  the fat burning hormone that sprinting induces, so wouldn't it be better to take the carbs one hour later and simply drink Protein Shake immediately after sprinting?
On the other hand, sprinting can lower Glycogen levels much more effectively than jogging, So wouldn't it be just fine to take small amount of carbs?

It's all confusing -- !!
I need your throughts backed up by experience.
Thanks in advance!


----------



## atherjen (Apr 17, 2004)

personally I have stuck to just protein and carbs post sprinting. and never choose high GI carbs either. thats just me though


----------



## once was fat (Apr 17, 2004)

Suicides are the bomb.  If you dont know what they are here you go.

It dosent have to be on a basketball court but its the best example.

Start at one end of the court and sprint to the nearest foul line and back. Next sprint to half court and back.  Next sprint to the furthest foul line and back and last sprint the whole court and back.  Do this without stopping.  I like to call them sets.  foul line half court other foul line whole court 1 set. Do 5 or 6 of these and you will be sweating like a mad man.


----------



## Premo55 (Apr 17, 2004)

^ I hate suicides. Worst part of every varsity team training session.

Peace.


----------



## once was fat (Apr 17, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Premo55 *_
> ^ I hate suicides. Worst part of every varsity team training session.
> 
> Peace.


But you have to agree they get your heart rate up really good and dam there painful.


----------



## BettyBlu (Apr 18, 2004)

I have been doing sprints and noticed a big difference.
Here's a link http://www.musclemedia.com/training/hiit.asp
This one gets gradually more challenging. But it's a lot of fun, because you notice improvements immediately.


----------



## atherjen (Apr 18, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by once was fat *_
> But you have to agree they get your heart rate up really good and dam there painful.




I  suicides!!! but I think that it was just the satisfaction of beating everyone else on my team at them!  
man do I ever miss ball practices!!


----------



## arbntmare (Apr 18, 2004)

so.,.. i am trying to cause fat burning... i know doing long period of simple cardio will do the job.. but i am trying out the high intensity running business... 30-45 max speed 45sec cool down and redo...

i have only done it few times to 10-14 mins.. but i can probably do more casue i am tired after them but not completely tired.. was wondering what is the recommended time for this type of workout??

i know when i use to do simple cardio i would like to get to certain mile range.. usually about 4miles..

thanks


----------



## atherjen (Apr 18, 2004)

20mins of intervals or sprinting will do the trick


----------



## arbntmare (Apr 18, 2004)

hrm okay time to train to get to that level.. i hope i can do it, so how many times a week? 3 times sufficent to get me to lose 2 lbs of fat a week?


----------



## Testosterone (Apr 19, 2004)

I would do it on non-training days, i.e., 3 times a week.
Evening sprints are more powerful than morning sprints.


----------



## LAM (Apr 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Testosterone *_
> Evening sprints are more powerful than morning sprints.



how do figure ?  

the metabolism slows to a crawl once you go to sleep regardless of what type of exercise is perfromed during the day.  to take full advantage of the increased metabolic activity (aka. Afterburn effect) from interval training it is best done early in the day..

but of course sprinting at night is always better than not sprinting at all...


----------



## Testosterone (Apr 19, 2004)

Early morning, body is robbed off glycogen. An all out sprint demands Full-Tank Glycogen levels. Jogging or Cardio is different thing altogether, you can do it empty stomach.
Evening time, body has better reserves of carbohydrate fuel so that sprints become more intense.
After all its all about intensity!


----------



## LAM (Apr 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Testosterone *_
> Early morning, body is robbed off glycogen. An all out sprint demands Full-Tank Glycogen levels. Jogging or Cardio is different thing altogether, you can do it empty stomach.
> Evening time, body has better reserves of carbohydrate fuel so that sprints become more intense.
> After all its all about intensity!



ATP is the primary energy source used during sprinting, not glycogen..


----------



## Testosterone (Apr 19, 2004)

What accounts for ATP?


----------



## LAM (Apr 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Testosterone *_
> What accounts for ATP?



http://www.nismat.org/physcor/energy_supply.html


----------



## Jake (Apr 20, 2004)

"Although I'm on good diet and consume 45g Whey Protein immediately after cardio without carbs, still I lose plenty of power when I'm on this type of Cardio. " 

Eat carbs after you sprint or do any cardio. Your getting very little benefit from the protein if it consumed alone. Your body is starved for simple sugars after any cardio, and will burn out anything you eat in hopes of finding them. You would be better off eating the protean with a comparable of greater amount of carbs, about an hour after you are finished cardio.

But ya, sprints are a better form of cardio for fat burn and increasing VO2 max, but not for endurance.


----------



## sli (Apr 22, 2004)

can you break down a 20 min interval of your sprints for me, Atherjen (or anyone else)? I wanna try!


----------



## Testosterone (Apr 22, 2004)

Eating simple carbs immediately after cardio: Will the insulin rise will not conflict with the fat burning hormones that are induced after a cardio? Or will the complex carbs can do the trick?


> _*Originally posted by Jake *_
> Eat carbs after you sprint or do any cardio. Your getting very little benefit from the protein if it consumed alone. Your body is starved for simple sugars after any cardio, and will burn out anything you eat in hopes of finding them. You would be better off eating the protean with a comparable of greater amount of carbs, about an hour after you are finished cardio.
> 
> But ya, sprints are a better form of cardio for fat burn and increasing VO2 max, but not for endurance.


----------



## Rich46yo (Apr 22, 2004)

I'd forget the running all together and instead do 20 mins to 30 mins on a stair stepper/eliptical type trainer. In my 20s I made the mistake of running way to much,then,lifting afterwards. Eventually I was running 30 to 40 miles a week and trying to keep up a lifting schedual. Eventually it not only caused me to regress but actually broke my body down and caused injury. If I had a time machine to go back I would have eliminated "running" completely from my workout.

                      But thats how powerful the "high" is from running serious distance. If I had to do it again I'd walk,bike,row,stair step,eliptical, for shorter times and more intensity. We used to do suicides for football. Yeah they are intense but all that twisting/stopping/starting can cause injury.

                   Testo only you can answer this but its very possable your overtraining. Running 3 miles 3 times a week, if your young, shouldnt make you regress with your weights, as long as your working out right. Your going to have to give your body one or two days a week to completely rest,  as I didnt do in my type-A20's, you'll never gain.

                   Overtraining is the most insidious enemy to making gains for an athlete. Many goal driven,type-A's, "as I was", in their late teens,20s, and early 30s never know they are doing it. And dont believe anyone that tells them they are.

                 By what your telling us here I'd say your overtraining...................take care............Rich


----------



## LAM (Apr 22, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Rich46yo *_
> I'd forget the running all together and instead do 20 mins to 30 mins on a stair stepper/eliptical type trainer. In my 20s I made the mistake of running way to much,then,lifting afterwards. Eventually I was running 30 to 40 miles a week and trying to keep up a lifting schedual. Eventually it not only caused me to regress but actually broke my body down and caused injury. If I had a time machine to go back I would have eliminated "running" completely from my workout.
> 
> But thats how powerful the "high" is from running serious distance. If I had to do it again I'd walk,bike,row,stair step,eliptical, for shorter times and more intensity. We used to do suicides for football. Yeah they are intense but all that twisting/stopping/starting can cause injury.
> ...



long distance running isn't even in the same ball park as doing sprints !  

long distance running is extemely catabolic and will keep your  cortisol levels high for hours after training even AFTER the consumption of a high GI drink and spiking insulin after training.

the treadmill/stair stepper is a complete joke as compared to doing sprints.  doing interval training with sprints is probably the BEST way to preserver LBM while losing body fat...


----------



## Testosterone (Apr 22, 2004)

I fully agree that long distance jogging /running is EXTREMELY CATABOLIC. Although you lose fat like crazy, feel "LIGHTWEIGHT", but you also lose LOT of STRENGTH which is exactly we DO NOT want while going to the gym.
After all we do not go to gym to curl 50 Lbs for 50 reps!
Rich46yo...you must be missing some point brother!


----------



## elitist (Apr 22, 2004)

Sprints in the morning, no question....glucagon is up....insulin is way down....burn baby burn!!!


----------



## Jake (Apr 22, 2004)

> Eating simple carbs immediately after cardio: Will the insulin rise will not conflict with the fat burning hormones that are induced after a cardio? Or will the complex carbs can do the trick?



It will slow the hormones down a bit, but fat loss is a marathon, not a sprint. You will still experience significant loss. What I was talking about there was the post running protean drink. Your body will not process the protean on its own because it is starved for sugars. So you will get very little benefit out of it. You would be much better off eating something like a tuna sandwich (bread for carbs, tuna for protean) after the run. 

In general just eat a balanced meal after the run, just like you should after a workout. Eating only protean or only carbs in a meal is pointless.


----------



## elitist (Apr 22, 2004)

*protein    

I disagree with you Jake. Although I cannot cite the literature directly, I have found that whey protein taken alone after HIIT does have signifigant merit. The high leucine and isoleucine content of the whey is not supposed to be utilized by the depleted muscle. The whey is there to act as a stand-in in lieu of the carbs. It will undergo gluconeogenesis naturally, being used to bring your blood sugar back up to norm,and it will fulfill the need for readily available aminos in the abscence of carbs, thereby stopping your liver from tapping into muscle amino stores for energy.,  Perhaps just as important, it does NOT have the same insulin promoting/halting fat utilization effects of the bread on that tuna sandwich you spoke of. The wheys sole function is to spare muscle amino stores, and extend adipose tissue liberation so your trigylceride blood level maxamizes, and the mitochondria in your bodies cells have the opportunity to metabolize the fat for energy in  your self induced depleted state. I personally have found that 30 grams of whey w/glutamine taken directly after my sprint intervals did not interferewith my fat  loss goals whatsoever.
Not to mention as an added benefit of the whey,it  act
ually helped me stay fuller afterwards. I use the whey as a "bridge" persay, between my post sprint catabolic/fatburning state to my first solid meal of the day
( low GI carbs at this first meal should be an understood necessity to not totally blunt any residual fat utilization post the intervals).This way, I avoid the insulin release that always comes with the carbs, and keep my GH
 levels up for a good 45 or so mins. after my sprints to maximize the fatloss. Then when I get to my meal, I have taken full advantage of the hormonal window following my sprints while at the same time sparing precious muscle from the cortisol that comes with the GH afterwards. I have tried the post carb  method, and after trying both, I disdain from any carb intake after my runs, but never neglect the shot of whey to my system. I swear by this. Give it a try, and draw your own conclusions from your respective results. I'm quite sure you will agree it is the optimal anabolic/anti-catabolic formula following any high intensity fat loss endeavor.


----------



## LAM (Apr 22, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by elitist *_
> I disagree Jake. Although I cannot cite the literature directly, I have found that whey protein taken alone after HIIT does have signifigant merit. The high leucine and isoleucine content of the whey is not supposed to be utilized by the depleted muscle. The whey is there to act as a stand-in in lieu of the carbs. It will undergo gluconeogenesis naturally, being used to bring your blood sugar back up to norm., but it does NOT have the same insulin promoting/halting fat utilization effects of the bread on that tuna sandwich you spoke of. The wheys sole function is to spare muscle amino stores, and extend adipose tissue liberation so your trigylceride blood level maxamizes, and the mitochondria in your bodies cells have the opportunity to metabolize the fat for energy in  your self induced depleted state. I personally have found that 30 grams of whey w/glutamine taken directly after my sprint intervals did not interferewith my fat  loss goals whatsoever.
> Not to mention as an added benefit of the whey,it  act
> ually helped me stay fuller afterwards. I use the whey as a "bridge" persay, between my post sprint catabolic/fatburning state to my first solid meal of the day
> ...



Excellent point !  

the addition of BCAA's before and after HIIT would definelty be of great benifit...


----------



## sli (Apr 23, 2004)

> I fully agree that long distance jogging /running is EXTREMELY CATABOLIC. Although you lose fat like crazy, feel "LIGHTWEIGHT", but you also lose LOT of STRENGTH which is exactly we DO NOT want while going to the gym.



Yes, I agree completely. My cardio used to consist of long distance running, but recently I have switched over to the epliptical/stair master in the gym. I felt, as you all have said, that I was losing strenght. Im gonna start doing more sprints, Ill let you all know how it goes.....


----------



## elitist (Apr 23, 2004)

I don know about you guys, but I never do any sprintwork on the day of, or the day after I hit legs. totally counterproductive.


----------



## LAM (Apr 23, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by elitist *_
> I don know about you guys, but I never do any sprintwork on the day of, or the day after I hit legs. totally counterproductive.



quite the opposite.  doing HIIT/Max-OT cardio/sprinting for the day after legs will SPEED recovery.  of course you need to keep it to 20 minutes or less at a high-intensity.  it's works basically the same as doing an active-recovery session..


----------



## Rich46yo (Apr 23, 2004)

""""""""'I fully agree that long distance jogging /running is EXTREMELY CATABOLIC. Although you lose fat like crazy, feel "LIGHTWEIGHT", but you also lose LOT of STRENGTH which is exactly we DO NOT want while going to the gym.
After all we do not go to gym to curl 50 Lbs for 50 reps!
Rich46yo...you must be missing some point brother!"""""""""""

                        Pray tell , tell me what point Im missing? You requested opinions and I gave you mine. If your regressing with weights at some point in your routine your overtraining. My opinion was it was probably your running, which was probably interfering with your rest cycle, and as a former LD runner I kinda gleaned from your post that you are probably running more then you admit.

                  I actually offered two opinions. #1, switch to lower impact, higher intensity, shorter time cardio, "kinda sounds like doing windsprints dont it"? #2, is the possibility your overtraining. Where in your routine you might be OT,ing in, hell ,I dont know. Only you can answer that, which is problematic because most people who overtrain dont even know they are doing it. BTW 3 miles 3 times a week is NOT long distance running. Its minimum cardiovascular gain.

                    Thats my opinion, tho it doesnt answer your question about "which" is better. Can I ask you one serious question Testo? Do you ever take one or two days off a week from exercise completely? Maybe a week or two several times a year? Thats from all exercise?..............take care.............Rich


----------



## Testosterone (Apr 23, 2004)

I train 4 days a week. My workouts are oretty much like Dorian Yates: Short and Intense.
I take 3 days off a week, eat well.
During these 3 days I fast jog 3 miles non-stop. This is the period which tends to be catabolic for me. For me it's 4 days of Intense training + 3 days of Cardio sums it all. This 3 mile Cardio is havoc on me so I need to terminate it.
I need to utilise these 3 off days in HIIT Cardio as suggested by some of the fellow members here. Hopefully this way, I'll not lose strength. 
Now you tell me: Is training 4 days a week called overtraining?
Or I'd be much better off with quitting Cardio and switch it with HIIT Cardio like sprints?


----------



## elitist (Apr 23, 2004)

I gotta butt heads w/you on that one LAM. I've never heard of sprint work increasing recovery the day after heavy squatting. No way. Maybe for you, somehow, but its far too illogical without even knowing the specifics. Those type I fast twitches wont have time to recover, especially in your hammies. Slow easy cardio will necessitate the delivery of nutrients on the day after a leg session, but damn, if you hit your wheels as hard as I do.....sprinting isnt even an option the day after, and even if it was, I wouldnt take it. Why would I want to stop hypertrophy dead in its tracks?....light jog, yes....sprinting the day after a thrasher? not on your life.


----------



## Rich46yo (Apr 23, 2004)

""""""""Now you tell me: Is training 4 days a week called overtraining?"""""""""

                            Cant answer that, I havnt seen your routine. I would guess no. I would also guess you know a helluva lot more about this stuff then I. Whatever silly advice I offered was done out of good intentions and friendship. I did guess right however, that it was the running.

                        I also know that some lifters are so incredably intense they can even overtrain taking 3 days off. If you are running on your "3 days off" my friend then you are not taking any "days off". What I do is do my 30 mins of cardio after I lift, and its all low impact. I take one or two days off and do NOTHING! Except eat right and sleep well, maybe a little stretching. This routine has allowed me to graduate from doing sitting overhead dumbell presses of 2 5lb dumbells, after my last back  surgery, to currently throwing up 2 60's,4 10 rep throws, and Im about to move up to 65s when I can get to the store and buy them. Not to bad for someone legally crippled.

                   Took me two years to do it too. And in those two years there was a lot of cardio but always 1 to 2 days a week of doing nothing but stretching..........good luck my friend...........Rich


----------



## LAM (Apr 23, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by elitist *_
> I gotta butt heads w/you on that one LAM. I've never heard of sprint work increasing recovery the day after heavy squatting. No way. Maybe for you, somehow, but its far too illogical without even knowing the specifics. Those type I fast twitches wont have time to recover, especially in your hammies. Slow easy cardio will necessitate the delivery of nutrients on the day after a leg session, but damn, if you hit your wheels as hard as I do.....sprinting isnt even an option the day after, and even if it was, I wouldnt take it. Why would I want to stop hypertrophy dead in its tracks?....light jog, yes....sprinting the day after a thrasher? not on your life.



LAM's Leg Day Quads/AM

Hack Squats - 2x135x20, 1x225x20, 1x315x20, 1x435x15
Flex Squat Machine - 1x225x20, 1x315x20, 2x565x15
Leg Press - 1x405x20, 3x875x20, Last set drop set from 875 to 135

Quads/PM

20 Rep Squats - 1x225x20
DB Lunges - 3x75x12
Leg Ext - 3x120xfailure

Hammies/PM
SLDL - 1x135x15, 2x275x10
Lying Leg Curls - 3x100x12
Standing Leg Curls - 3x80x15

* I have no problem doing HIIT/Max-OT or sprints the day after legs.  But my diet is also spot on...


----------



## elitist (Apr 24, 2004)

as is mine...why are you showing me your workout?...not to impress me I hope.......hey i aint gon sit here and call you a liar...im just saying...I personally think your protocol is hampering the optimal gains you could be getting if you passed on the HIIT......to each his own...


----------



## LAM (Apr 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by elitist *_
> as is mine...why are you showing me your workout?...not to impress me I hope.



not in the least....I don't need to post stats on the internet to impress people... 

If you don't think that you can train legs and sprint the next day you obviously have never competitively competed in track and field...


----------



## elitist (Apr 25, 2004)

I don't remember ever saying you can't. Show me that quote why don't you. LAM, I could sit here and argue this 'till we're both blue in the face, and neither would have the edge. I'm quite sure of that.I never said one  cant(as you incorrectly posted), I said I believe it is detrimental to quicker quality gains, which I whole-heartedly stand-by. And as for the comment about me never competing in track and field, you're correct, but last time I checked this forum is for people who want to build their bodies,and are interested in the quickest, most advantageous  manner to reach their goals, not train for the high jump, or javelin throw. You're way off base with that snide remark.


----------



## LAM (Apr 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by elitist *_
> I don't remember ever saying you can't. Show me that quote why don't you. LAM, I could sit here and argue this 'till we're both blue in the face, and neither would have the edge. I'm quite sure of that.I never said one  cant(as you incorrectly posted), I said I believe it is detrimental to quicker quality gains, which I whole-heartedly stand-by. And as for the comment about me never competing in track and field, you're correct, but last time I checked this forum is for people who want to build their bodies,and are interested in the quickest, most advantageous  manner to reach their goals, not train for the high jump, or javelin throw. You're way off base with that snide remark.



have you ever seen a world class sprinter with out superior leg development ? no..

what do they do ? lifts weights and do sprints day in and day out


----------



## elitist (Apr 25, 2004)

True, but you touch my point though. That's for the most part what they focus on(lower body). Their legs take precedent over the rest of their body, and I have yet to see a sprinter with equal mass and development throughout the rest of their bodies to match their massy sculpted legs, and calves. Hey if your all about your pins, do you. Me personally, I would prefer to have a perfectly proportioned physique, and I'm sorry to say, sprinters, although they have beautiful physiques, are somewhat muscularly imbalanced. Not something conducive to bodybuilding.   (sigh)...now go ahead and post your comeback...


----------

