# My New Methodology



## Standard Donkey (Mar 24, 2012)

well..it's not really mine at all, but I am employing it.


It's a combination of John Meadow's principles outlined in his "Mountain Dog Diet" (eating the most nutritious food available), with the philosophy of only consuming carbohydrates pre-workout and during-workout.



The reasoning behind the carbohydrate timing is _apparently _new research has come out that indicates that post workout carbs are not effective at all for increasing protein synthesis, and only contribute to fat storage (gross oversimplification, but you get the general idea)

My Food list contains the following:

Protein

Whole eggs (organic)
Beef liver
Chicken (97% fat free)
Humapro (for post workout protein shake)


Fat

Virgin coconut Oil
Virgin red palm oil
EVOO
Fish oil

Carbohydrates

brown rice (100-150 grams worth of carbs pre-workout)
dextrose (20 grams during workout)
spinach and bell peppers (not really counting them as carbs)

also using brewer's yeast on my meat meals


The lifting day looks like this (training at 4pm)

meal 1 
 6-8 oz chicken plus red palm oil +coconut oil (2 tsp. each) + Brewer's yeaster

meal 2
same as meal 1

meal 3 
same as meal 1


Pre-workout (90 minutes pre-workout)
same as meal 1 +3/4 - 1 cup of brown rice 

during workout 20-30 grams dextrose

immediately after workout 2 scoops humapro

Meal 5
4 oz beef liver plus 3 whole eggs plus red palm oil

meal 6
same as meal 5

meal 7
1 scoop humapro + spinach/bell pepper


Off days basically follow the same pattern minus the carbs


Thoughts?


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## exphys88 (Mar 24, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> well..it's not really mine at all, but I am employing it.
> 
> 
> It's a combination of John Meadow's principles outlined in his "Mountain Dog Diet" (eating the most nutritious food available), with the philosophy of only consuming carbohydrates pre-workout and during-workout.
> ...



do you have a typical day broken down into macros?  I actually like about 150 grams of carbs a day.  I can train hard and not feel like crap with that amount.  100 or below, I can't train properly.


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## Standard Donkey (Mar 24, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> do you have a typical day broken down into macros?  I actually like about 150 grams of carbs a day.  I can train hard and not feel like crap with that amount.  100 or below, I can't train properly.




I have the protein and carbs broke down yes

usually ends up being around 250 grams of protein (plus humapro) and 120-150 grams of carbs


which is around 1480-1600 calories.. so I dont really count the fat (I might consume 100 grams or so of fat, but its such good quality and almost all MCT's so i just say fuck it)


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## exphys88 (Mar 24, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> I have the protein and carbs broke down yes
> 
> usually ends up being around 250 grams of protein (plus humapro) and 120-150 grams of carbs
> 
> ...



I like those numbers.  plenty of protein for growth, plenty of carbs for fuel, and plenty of fat to keep you satiated.


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## Standard Donkey (Mar 24, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> I like those numbers.  plenty of protein for growth, plenty of carbs for fuel, and plenty of fat to keep you satiated.




yes sir, the goal is fat loss, however I have read (from very knowledgeable people) that it is also very good for muscle growth.



Im also getting more nutrients per calorie, as there are very few vitamins and minerals in most carb sources.


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## exphys88 (Mar 24, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> yes sir, the goal is fat loss, however I have read (from very knowledgeable people) that it is also very good for muscle growth.
> 
> 
> 
> Im also getting more nutrients per calorie, as there are very few vitamins and minerals in most carb sources.



carbs can be very healthy with tons of nutrients.  Beans and sweet potatoes are good examples.  Simple carb foods are generally not nutrient dense, except for fruit.  Don't be afraid of carbs, just choose the correct ones.  Which you obviously have.


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## Standard Donkey (Mar 24, 2012)

you are certainly correct about fruits and sweet potatoes


however i try to stay away from beans because they contain a lot of phytates


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## exphys88 (Mar 24, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> you are certainly correct about fruits and sweet potatoes
> 
> 
> however i try to stay away from beans because they contain a lot of phytates



don't be scared by the propaganda.  Beans are so good for so many reasons.  low calorie, high protein, high fiber, very high antioxidants.  In many high antioxidant lists, 2 different beans are in the top ten.  one study found that people that eat beans at least a few times a week have much lower rates of heart disease than those that don't eat beans.


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## Standard Donkey (Mar 25, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> don't be scared by the propaganda.  Beans are so good for so many reasons.  low calorie, high protein, high fiber, very high antioxidants.  In many high antioxidant lists, 2 different beans are in the top ten.  one study found that people that eat beans at least a few times a week have much lower rates of heart disease than those that don't eat beans.



you are probably correct, however I feel that I could get more nutrition for my dollar with something else (I can't help but think like that...its a curse lol).

ive just recently decided to drop the carbs to 50 grams pre workout and remove the dextrose (hate sweet things). Im using Halotestin, so that should keep me focused and energized through my workouts if the 50 grams fails to.


Just trying to get shredded like everyone else


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## exphys88 (Mar 25, 2012)

I hear ya, I would like to be more shredded as well.  As for beans, I actually can't eat them as much as i would like cause I'm currently trying to keep my carbs at 150 grams a day, and it's not easy with beans.  



Standard Donkey said:


> you are probably correct, however I feel that I could get more nutrition for my dollar with something else (I can't help but think like that...its a curse lol).
> 
> ive just recently decided to drop the carbs to 50 grams pre workout and remove the dextrose (hate sweet things). Im using Halotestin, so that should keep me focused and energized through my workouts if the 50 grams fails to.
> 
> ...


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## Standard Donkey (Mar 25, 2012)

luckily it is very easy for me to eat this way indefinitely. I have employed this method for only 2 days (one of which was a lifting day), and i feel as though I am already seeing results from the reduced carb intake


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## brazey (Mar 26, 2012)

Just in case you want another opinion; you're eating very close to what the oldtime strongmen did. They concentrated on foods like meats, cheese, eggs and some starch and had a big salad (with more meat) for the last big meal of the day.   So I believe you're in good company.


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## Standard Donkey (Mar 26, 2012)

brazey said:


> Just in case you want another opinion; you're eating very close to what the oldtime strongmen did. They concentrated on foods like meats, cheese, eggs and some starch and had a big salad (with more meat) for the last big meal of the day.   So I believe you're in good company.




I am always looking for more input, and thank you very much for yours. I see the big time bodybuilders enodorsing huge amounts of carbohydrates... but i feel that the fact that they are using insulin (and for the most part...we are not) gets forgotten. 

ive only been employing this diet for 3 days, and i can already see a difference... must be the dramatically increased protein intake (and overall quality of food).


when you think about it.. carbs are only good for energy (is this wrong?), and the sparing of protein. However, do we "enhanced" people really need carbs to spare our protein?


This, i am going to find out


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## lee111s (Mar 27, 2012)

Carbs are important for muscle building and recovery. 

The best analogy I've seen is that protein are the building blocks and carbs are your workforce. With an absence of either, you can't effectively build muscle.

It's all about getting the right amount of carbs as to not "spill over" which leads to excess fat gain. A very important thing is to eat considerably less calories on your non-workout days.


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## Standard Donkey (Mar 27, 2012)

lee111s said:


> Carbs are important for muscle building and recovery.
> 
> The best analogy I've seen is that protein are the building blocks and carbs are your workforce. With an absence of either, you can't effectively build muscle.
> 
> It's all about getting the right amount of carbs as to not "spill over" which leads to excess fat gain. A very important thing is to eat considerably less calories on your non-workout days.



right, carbs give you the energy to get through the workout and cause muscular trauma to prompt growth.

If it really is true that they do not increase protein synthesis at all, then we could get our energy through limited carbs in pre-workout meals. Been told by very knowledge people that as long as carbohydrates are consumed within a few hours prior to training, glycogen stores will be replenished.


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## lee111s (Mar 28, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> right, carbs give you the energy to get through the workout and cause muscular trauma to prompt growth.
> 
> If it really is true that they do not increase protein synthesis at all, then we could get our energy through limited carbs in pre-workout meals. Been told by very knowledge people that as long as carbohydrates are consumed within a few hours prior to training, glycogen stores will be replenished.



Not sure I agree with that. I'm doing intermittent fasting (with carb cycling) which means that you eat all of your carbs POST work out. I train fasted (10g BCAA).

I only train 3 days a week, M W F at the moment as I'm cutting. So on Tues, Thurs, Sat and Sun (the days before I work out) I eat minimal carbs, all coming from vegetables. I have next to no carbs for almost 40 hours before I lift, even longer on  Monday.

I've found that my workouts are more explosive when I work out fasted as I'm not bloated. I have lots more energy. My lifts have increased every so slightly despite dropping 10lb since starting the intermittent fasting 11 weeks ago.


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## Standard Donkey (Mar 28, 2012)

lee111s said:


> Not sure I agree with that. I'm doing intermittent fasting (with carb cycling) which means that you eat all of your carbs POST work out. I train fasted (10g BCAA).
> 
> I only train 3 days a week, M W F at the moment as I'm cutting. So on Tues, Thurs, Sat and Sun (the days before I work out) I eat minimal carbs, all coming from vegetables. I have next to no carbs for almost 40 hours before I lift, even longer on  Monday.
> 
> I've found that my workouts are more explosive when I work out fasted as I'm not bloated. I have lots more energy. My lifts have increased every so slightly despite dropping 10lb since starting the intermittent fasting 11 weeks ago.



im assuming you are natural?

I have read the principles of intermittent fasting, and would like to employ a philosophy similar to it... however, i fear i would most likely lose my mind in doing so (i get really nauseas if i dont eat for 3 hours, feels like my stomach literally starts eating itself).

Thus far, I have been applying this principle for 2 workouts, and I can already see a noticeable difference (most likely from dropping water). My muscles are harder, fuller, and bigger (increased protein to replace calories from cutting out carbs) and my waist is shrinking (lovehandle and lower back area).

This experiment has led me to believe that i am carb-sensitive, and dont tolerate them very well. I used to have carbs both pre, during, and a very large portion post workout.. My strength and size did not really go anywhere (as i was cutting), and neither did my fat loss.

I am not making this theory up, there have been studies conducted about glycogen depletion, restoration, and carbs' effect on protein synthesis. 

As an unnatural trainer, im not too concerned about the protein-sparing effects of carbs, neither can i be bothered to obtain (minimal, if any) extra protein synthesis by downing a load of sugar post workout.


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## lee111s (Mar 28, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> im assuming you are natural?
> 
> I have read the principles of intermittent fasting, and would like to employ a philosophy similar to it... however, i fear i would most likely lose my mind in doing so (i get really nauseas if i dont eat for 3 hours, feels like my stomach literally starts eating itself).
> 
> ...



Natural for now  

The first 4-5 days take a bit getting used to with not having breakfast early in the morning but once you overcome that you're golden. Your body is pretty awesome at adaptation as you probably know. With IF it gets used to the long time (16hrs) between meals and this in turn makes you're body use more fat as an energy source. 

You're spot on with the principle of keeping protein high (you have high fats on non training days too, since you're not eating over maintenance it can't be stored as fat).

I'm going on prop and tren ace next week. Going into carb cycling a little more while on. Going to try 1high carb day followed by 3 low carb days, again keeping protein high on all days. I'm at about 10% BF now (callipers and bio-electrical averages).

If that doesn't work for me then I'll go back to the leangains intermittent fasting regime but instead of having a 10% surplus of cals on workout days and a 35% deficit on off days, I'll go to like 20% surplus and 20% deficit.

I'm fascinated by diets and I'm of the mindset that there's not one type of diet for all. Nor do I think that one type is considerably better than others. I think they all have their own merits (aside from the eat everything in sight diet )


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## Standard Donkey (Mar 28, 2012)

ive read that IF makes it easier to maintain a lower bodyfat.. ill probably implement something like IF when i get lean enough.

I just dont see the need for post workout carbs (especially for a gear user). Studies have shown that glycogen is not depleted THAT much during a workout, and most of the studies that do support lots of carbs were done on endurance atheletes. 

studies have even shown that water replenishes glycogen stores, and as long as you get carbs 1-2 hours before your workout, your stores will be replenished sufficiently


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## lee111s (Mar 28, 2012)

Interesting stuff.

I might lay off the IF when on cycle then, with tren being awesome at nutrient portioning/food efficiency. Then jump back on IF when off cycle to help stay lean.


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## MuscleGauge1 (Mar 29, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> I like those numbers. plenty of protein for growth, plenty of carbs for fuel, and plenty of fat to keep you satiated.


I like them also. I think your in good shape. Keep it up


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## Standard Donkey (Apr 1, 2012)

thank you.


ive noticed changes in my body composition already. I have dropped a good amount of water, and my sides are continuing to shrink. My muscles are also getting larger and harder/fuller during workouts. I think im going to up my carbs to 200 grams pre workout for 1 day out of the week (just with brown rice) as a sort of "cheat meal"


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## Merkaba (Apr 2, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> well..it's not really mine at all, but I am employing it.
> 
> 
> ...The reasoning behind the carbohydrate timing is _apparently _new research has come out that indicates that post workout carbs are not effective at all for increasing protein synthesis, and only contribute to fat storage (gross oversimplification, but you get the general idea)...



I'd like to see the abstract on that research.  The thing is that if you're going to write a book, you need to have something new to say, some new angle....so...

I too am doing IF, and there are a few reports I've come across that would state otherwise.


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## raptor20561 (Apr 2, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> As an unnatural trainer, im not too concerned about the protein-sparing effects of carbs, neither can i be bothered to obtain (minimal, if any) extra protein synthesis by downing a load of sugar post workout.



I love this statement. One has to remember that eating and training will be different on and off cycle.

But there has to be at least some advantage to the insulin spike postworkout, otherwise we wouldn't hear about pros using insulin shots, right?


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## Standard Donkey (Apr 2, 2012)

raptor20561 said:


> I love this statement. One has to remember that eating and training will be different on and off cycle.
> 
> But there has to be at least some advantage to the insulin spike postworkout, otherwise we wouldn't hear about pros using insulin shots, right?



well insulin is an incredible thing (not even planning on using it ever). Im not even sure of the mechanisms through which it works. 

The belief system that my diet is centered around is supported by too many people whom I immensely respect for me to not believe it as gospel.


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## MuscleGauge1 (Apr 2, 2012)

exphys88 said:


> I like those numbers. plenty of protein for growth, plenty of carbs for fuel, and plenty of fat to keep you satiated.



I think your in job shape also. Keep it up.


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## Standard Donkey (Apr 4, 2012)

this new strategy is working flawlessly.. im gaining size, strength, and losing fat at the same time.


im getting comments every day on my enhanced appearance.


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## Standard Donkey (Apr 4, 2012)

this will have DRAMATIC implications for how i "bulk" in the future. Ill be aiming for 400-450 grams of protein daily (with PLENTY of anabolics), 100-150 grams of carbs preworkout, and the rest coming from fats.

hmmmm i might be able to lean out while bulking? that would be incredible.


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