# Religion



## soxmuscle (Sep 27, 2010)

To what extent do you follow religion.

In other words, are you educated and able to think for yourself or are you a fucking retard?


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## ALBOB (Sep 27, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> To what extent do you follow religion.
> 
> In other words, are you educated and able to think for yourself or are you a fucking retard?



What does your first sentence have to do with the second?


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## 200+ (Sep 27, 2010)

ALBOB said:


> What does your first sentence have to do with the second?



I read it as "if you are religious you are retarded"


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## ALBOB (Sep 27, 2010)

200+ said:


> I read it as "if you are religious you are retarded"



Yeah, that's the way I read it too.  I'm looking for a clarification, just to make sure.


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## soxmuscle (Sep 27, 2010)

My grandmother is very religious and it's because of the era she grew up in, so I can't hold it against her or people in her generation for being religious.  After all, for generations and generations, religion was passed down not as a reference but as a tell all/end all way to live your life.

If the birth lottery placed you in Iran, you're going to be Muslim.  If the birth lottery placed you in Israel, you're going to be a Jew.  If the birth lottery placed you in a Catholic Boston, you're going to be Catholic.

Well, it's 2010 and the times have changed.  Westernized countries allow people to think for themselves without being forced into thinking something based off of who your parents are, where you were born/where you live, etc.

It might not be in my lifetime, but within the next hundred years, Religion will be extinct.  It's early uses, to educate and keep people moral and in line are no longer needed.  It's become something that it never intended to become.

So yes, you heard me right, if you're 30 or under and have given your life to religion, you're an idiot who isn't able to think for yourself.  If you're in the 31-60 range, it's a gray area, where the world was ever changing - being religious, believing in a higher power, etc. is acceptable based on the era you grew up in, but ignoring scientific fact and believing wholeheartedly in all that is religion is unacceptable.  If you're older, you grew up in a time period where everything that you believe in is based solely on your parents, friends, and families beliefs, in which case, being a jesus freak is acceptable.


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## KelJu (Sep 27, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> My grandmother is very religious and it's because of the era she grew up in, so I can't hold it against her or people in her generation for being religious.  After all, for generations and generations, religion was passed down not as a reference but as a tell all/end all way to live your life.
> 
> If the birth lottery placed you in Iran, you're going to be Muslim.  If the birth lottery placed you in Israel, you're going to be a Jew.  If the birth lottery placed you in a Catholic Boston, you're going to be Catholic.
> 
> ...





Civilizations have risen and fallen again and again, but religion keeps on going. I caught a pretty damn cool edition of Scientific American not long ago where they have pinpointed the god center of the brain. Most of us have genetic predisposition towards believing in a higher power. This area of the brain seems to serve just that purpose alone. Just like a math center for calculus nerds, or a writing center for story telling geniuses, we have are predisposed. The brighter way of looking at it is it gave human's one hell of an edge in the survival game at one time. 


But, just like all of our other colorful attributes that causes mass scale suffering, it's time to let that part of ourselves go. In Alabama, I couldn't play a slot machine or buy beer because of some other person's hodgepodge of ancient neural circuitry getting in the way. Some towel head is willing to walk into a bus and murder hundreds of people because of it. People will let powerful men rape, murder, steal, and molest all because they fear to doubt their religion.


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## MyK (Sep 27, 2010)

In this day and age if you follow a religion and believe that crap they serve up every sunday morning than you are an idiot. plain and simple.

I understand old people who have grown up with that shit shoved down their mouths and are now so close to kicking it that the belief that they will be going to heaven eases their fear of death. But any one under 60 who is not mentally retarded should see it for what it is, bullshit, lies, and the biggest scam of all time.


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## Du (Sep 27, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> My grandmother is very religious and it's because of the era she grew up in, so I can't hold it against her or people in her generation for being religious.  After all, for generations and generations, religion was passed down not as a reference but as a tell all/end all way to live your life.
> 
> If the birth lottery placed you in Iran, you're going to be Muslim.  If the birth lottery placed you in Israel, you're going to be a Jew.  If the birth lottery placed you in a Catholic Boston, you're going to be Catholic.
> 
> ...




Well I've been blessed to not have been born in any of those hellholes you mention; I grew up Catholic in CT... but I have to say, I am 100% with you. 

It's good in that it helps develop a moral compass, and undoubtedly some people NEED it, but I see it as a crutch. 

Just my $.02.


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## SYN (Sep 27, 2010)

+1


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## 200+ (Sep 27, 2010)

YouTube Video


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## vortrit (Sep 27, 2010)

I could care less what religion someone is as long as they are not hurting you, me, or someone else. I think, it's funny how many people are anti this or anti that when it's not doing anything to hurt them.


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## SYN (Sep 27, 2010)

vortrit said:


> I could care less what religion someone is as long as they are not hurting you, me, or someone else. I think, it's funny how many people are anti this or anti that when it's not doing anything to hurt them.



True. But religion hurts a lot of people, and as a human being, I have a problem with that.


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## vortrit (Sep 27, 2010)

SYN said:


> True. But religion hurts a lot of people, and as a human being, I have a problem with that.



I said *as long as they are not hurting you, me, or someone else.*

My parents made me go to church all the time when I was a kid and I hated it. However, I'm an adult now and can do what I want. I get sick of these people crying about how their parents made them go to church, etc., and they are anti-religion. Get over it.

If someone wants to spend all their money and time pouring it into their religion it's their own fault they can't find anything better to do. I just don't see how (in most cases) it's hurting me or you.


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## SYN (Sep 27, 2010)

vortrit said:


> I said *as long as they are not hurting you, me, or someone else.*
> 
> My parents made me go to church all the time when I was a kid and I hated it. However, I'm an adult now and can do what I want. I get sick of these people crying about how their parents made them go to church, etc., and they are anti-religion. Get over it.
> 
> If someone wants to spend all their money and time pouring it into their religion it's their own fault they can't find anything better to do. I just don't see how (in most cases) it's hurting me or you.



I'm glad I was never made to go to church. I have family that is religious but it's something that was never pressured on me.


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## soxmuscle (Sep 27, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Civilizations have risen and fallen again and again, but religion keeps on going. I caught a pretty damn cool edition of Scientific American not long ago where they have pinpointed the god center of the brain. Most of us have genetic predisposition towards believing in a higher power. This area of the brain seems to serve just that purpose alone. Just like a math center for calculus nerds, or a writing center for story telling geniuses, we have are predisposed. The brighter way of looking at it is it gave human's one hell of an edge in the survival game at one time.
> 
> 
> But, just like all of our other colorful attributes that causes mass scale suffering, it's time to let that part of ourselves go. In Alabama, I couldn't play a slot machine or buy beer because of some other person's hodgepodge of ancient neural circuitry getting in the way. Some towel head is willing to walk into a bus and murder hundreds of people because of it. People will let powerful men rape, murder, steal, and molest all because they fear to doubt their religion.



I'm really interested in this Scientific American because I don't believe it. 

All along the reason we believed in a higher power is because we had no explanations for what the fuck was going on around us. 

- A Volcano would erupt and there was no way to explain it.
- Rain would fall on your head and you had no idea what the fuck was going on.
- There were seasons, for a while it's scorching, and it gradually gets colder until.. shit.. you're using unexplainable shit to keep warm.

The list goes on and on.  It makes sense why we believed all of this must have come from a higher power.

It should be viewed as growth.  As learning.  As beginning to understand the unknown.  

It makes zero sense to me, as it does you, why an obedient person (well, for the most part) like yourself wouldn't be allowed to play a game or drink beer.  

It makes zero sense to me how someone could misinterpret the message passed down from religions so wrong.  There was this crazy lady protesting outside the busiest part of campus today screaming that fornicating is the devil - even this disgrace of a human makes no sense to me; it's as if she felt a stab wound to her heart with every male pelvic thrust inside of an unmarried woman.

It makes zero sense to me how the Catholic church can't do the logical, rational thing and understand that withholding sex is inhuman and results in insanity; we're actually lucky these people _only _anally reamed underaged sphincter, in hindsight.  I watched an Intervention of this boy who told his parents that Father _________ raped him and the parents didn't want to cause an uproar or harm at the church so they took a financial settlement to withhold any charges.  The boy took it as a slap in the face and eventually drank himself retarded and became an addict.  There is no amount of money that I could be paid to not A. oust them in the community, take them to court, etc. or more importantly, B. go into the church and beat the fuck out of that old creepy insane bastard.  How can these people not see the problem!?  You're choosing religion over your own son and ended up ruining his life in the process - you're terrible parents, and terrible people.  Not even terrible, just irrational and dumb.


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## soxmuscle (Sep 27, 2010)

MyK 3.0 said:


> In this day and age if you follow a religion and believe that crap they serve up every sunday morning than you are an idiot. plain and simple.
> 
> I understand old people who have grown up with that shit shoved down their mouths and *are now so close to kicking it that the belief that they will be going to heaven eases their fear of death*. But any one under 60 who is not mentally retarded should see it for what it is, bullshit, lies, and the biggest scam of all time.



The notion of heaven and hell, or anything really, other than the fact that you'll be a dead carcass is ignorant.

This:

72 black-eyed virgins: Muslim debate on the rewards of martyrs - Likud of Holland



> The Hamas movement educates the children in its schools, beginning in kindergarten, to believe that a martyr is given virgins in Paradise. Jack Kelley of USA Today visited Hamas schools in Gaza City, where he saw an 11-year-old boy speak to his class:
> "I will make my body a bomb that will blast the flesh of Zionists, the sons of pigs and monkeys... I will tear their bodies into little pieces and will cause them more pain than they will ever know."
> His classmates shouted in response, "Allah Akhbar," and his teacher shouted, "May the virgins give you pleasure." A 16-year-old Hamas youth leader in a Gaza refugee camp told Kelley, "Most boys can't stop thinking about the virgins."(19)






> Along with the media, Palestinian Muslim clerics also help instill this belief. In an interview with the Egyptian daily Al-Ahram Al-Arabi, Palestinian Authority Mufti Sheikh 'Ikrima Sabri was asked what he felt when he prayed for the soul of a martyr. He answered:
> "I feel that the martyr is lucky, because angels bring him to his wedding in Paradise... I spoke with one young man, who told me: 'I want to marry the black-eyed women in Paradise.' The next day, he died a martyr's death. I am certain that his mother was filled with joy over his heavenly wedding. Such a son is worthy of such a mother.'"






> The suicide attackers who carried out the September 11 attacks also believed that 'the black-eyed' were one of the rewards awaiting them in Paradise. The letter of instructions found in Nawwaf Al-Hamzi's car mentioned 'the black-eyed' twice: "...Don't show signs of uneasiness and tension; be joyful and happy, set your mind at ease, and be confident and rest assured that you are carrying out an action that Allah likes and that pleases Him. Therefore, a day will come, Allah willing, that you will spend with 'the black-eyed' in Paradise... Know that the gardens [i.e. Paradise] have been decorated for you with the most beautiful ornaments and that 'the black-eyed' will call to you: 'Come, faithful of Allah," after having donned their finest garments."






> In a review of the Egyptian press in the London daily Al-Quds Al-Arabi, the veteran Egyptian journalist Hasanain Kurum explained that Sheikh Tantawi knowingly gave a vague answer to the question, so as to avoid a scandal like the one created a few years previously by the late author and journalist Muhammad Galal Al-Kushk. Al-Kushk wrote,
> "The men in Paradise have sexual relations not only with the women [who come from this world] and with 'the black-eyed,' but also with the serving boys." According to Kurum, Al-Kushk also stated, "In Paradise, a believer's penis is eternally erect."



Can you imagine how fucking stupid these people are?


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## vortrit (Sep 27, 2010)

SYN said:


> I'm glad I was never made to go to church. I have family that is religious but it's something that was never pressured on me.



Well, it was not that bad just going to church casually. I do feel sorry for kids who's parents push religion on them 27/7/365. If that were the case I might have a different opinion about it.


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## soxmuscle (Sep 27, 2010)

Du said:


> Well I've been blessed to not have been born in any of those hellholes you mention; I grew up Catholic in CT... but I have to say, I am 100% with you.
> 
> It's good in that it helps develop a moral compass, and undoubtedly some people NEED it, but I see it as a crutch.
> 
> Just my $.02.



I grew up a Catholic in MA, and I'm 100% with me.

Exactly.  I got a lot out of it at one point in time, but I'm glad it didn't define who I was.  My Dad was kind of an outcast for a couple years after getting divorced, even though other relationships within the family were far worse, simply because he was divorced.  It's okay to hate eachother, never sleep with eachother, sleep with other people, etc. because you're not divorced.  How could one's logic be so flawed?

God, love 'em


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## OTG85 (Sep 27, 2010)

I go to church sometimes.I believe there is a god.I pin gear in my ass time to time.I'm no religious freak but I do believe.


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## soxmuscle (Sep 27, 2010)

What do you believe?


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## Big Smoothy (Sep 27, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> To what extent do you follow religion.



I am not religious.  I do (out of curiosity) "follow" religious texts and their interpretations, such as the Old & New Testament, Quran, Talmud, Torah, etc.

IMO, these religions are man-made, and they borrow and outright steal from one another.

Christianity lifted stuff from the Egyptian religions, Zoroastrianism, and other elements.  



> In other words, are you educated and able to think for yourself or are you a fucking retard?



IMO (since you've asked), religions limit critical thinking and cause many people to do harmful things.  We only need to look at history.


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## Du (Sep 27, 2010)

Christianity:

The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your Master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

Yea, makes perfect sense. 



(Borrowed from somewhere...)


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## jmorrison (Sep 27, 2010)

So now having faith, or believing in a higher power constitutes idiocy?

Without getting into a religious debate which ironically enough has to be the pinnacle of stupidity (I'm surprised you missed that when you made the thread), I will state that I am a believer.  What I believe is sort of a moot point since the thread is addressing religion as a whole.  I don't remember ever pressing my belief system on you, or beginning a thread insulting agnostic/atheistic beliefs or the intelligence of the people with that mindset.  I am a very strong believer in being able to do what you want, when you want, and without having people all over you, as long as you aren't hurting anyone else.

That said, I graduated honor graduate from the US Air Traffic Control school.  That particular school has a 75% academic washout rate, and I graduated at the top of the class.  When (and this is a serious question) was the last time you even participated in something academically that had a 75% washout...let alone finish first in the class?

I no longer follow that career by the way, but it was still a nice accomplishment.

I have a good job, wonderful children, a hot girlfriend, nice cars, harleys and overall a good life.  I like to think that I have received these things as blessings, but however you believe I got them, it certainly wasn't through stupidity.

So...TLDR?  Your opinion (or anyones who mindlessly bashes someone for their faith) falls somewhere short of the bag boys at the local supermarket on my care-meter.

Grow up, and leave people to their own beliefs.


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## vortrit (Sep 28, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> So now having faith, or believing in a higher power constitutes idiocy?



Of course. If you don't believe other peoples beliefs or non-beliefs you are an idiot. Don't you know that?

That is sarcasm, by the way.


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## blazeftp (Sep 28, 2010)

I used to as a kid until i came to the age of reason.






Question for you guys who don't.

Do you find yourself having a more skeptic view on things ?


If one thing religion has taught me is to question everything no matter what and form my own opinion uninfected by outside views.


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## tucker01 (Sep 28, 2010)

To soxmuscle I do not follow a religion.  But I don't believe following a religion makes you a retard either.  It is in the same context that because blacks populate the jail system to the largest extent, then all blacks must be criminals.

Hate the person, not the beliefs.  There are many well balanced, educated hard working religious people.  People who will contribute more to our society than you or I. 



Big Smoothy said:


> IMO (since you've asked), religions limit critical thinking and cause many people to do harmful things.  We only need to look at history.



This is the biggest load of crock.  There are many great scientist, who followed religion and were able to think outside of the religious context.  People limit there critical thinking... not religion.

Might as well blame the gun for the murder, not the person for using it.


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## KelJu (Sep 28, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> I'm really interested in this Scientific American because I don't believe it.



My Science Journals are DRM encrypted by audible, so I have no way to share them with you. I quick search did pull up these.

God In The Brain: Tumor Surgery Points Way to Brain's Religious Center - ABC News
Brain's 'God Spot' Hard to Pin Down

Interesting stuff. When electricity was introduced to the "God Center", spiritual believers all reported having an intense spiritual experience. I believe this is true, because I have caused myself to have intense spiritual experience, but I had to eat heroic doses of mushrooms to get there.


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## Nightowl (Sep 28, 2010)

I think for myself, but with religion, I see that many are unable and at times I'll try to gain some interest for them to branch out and not be treated like cattle.


Like, having to amend to this and that, aka "Simon Says" and then you have to die to get heaven.  Pity, most don't see that a vast majority of what these sorts are talking about and truly their intentions are creators of "hell" on earth.  So, naturally they want you to die and think there is a better place.

nuff sed


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## Big Smoothy (Sep 28, 2010)

IainDaniel said:


> This is the biggest load of crock.  There are many great scientist, who followed religion and were able to think outside of the religious context.  People limit there critical thinking... not religion.
> 
> Might as well blame the gun for the murder, not the person for using it.



I see your point, Iain.

But religion can - and has - and does - limit critical thinking, yes, because individuals and _groups_ allowed it to.

Wars, persecutions, etc.

It was in the "name" of a god.....


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## tucker01 (Sep 28, 2010)

Big Smoothy said:


> I see your point, Iain.
> 
> But religion can - and has - and does - limit critical thinking, yes, because individuals and _groups_ allowed it to.
> 
> ...



No ignorant people limit critical thinking.


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## vortrit (Sep 28, 2010)

Big Smoothy said:


> It was in the "name" of a god.....



Do you mean this guy?


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## troubador (Sep 28, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> My grandmother is very religious and it's because of the era she grew up in, so I can't hold it against her or people in her generation for being religious.



Just like I can't hold it against you for growing up during this pop culture atheist movement. It's the perfect time for this and it's been so easy for people like Hitchens to sell this bubble gum atheism with its everyman morality. It's ironic for common people to think they're part of some enlightenment era when topics like this were brought to the forefront of public thought over 200 years ago and had significant government and social effects.


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## DaMayor (Sep 28, 2010)

Lord, please strike down the jackass who started another yet religion thread, for he is retarded and knows not what he does. Amen.


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## bio-chem (Sep 28, 2010)

really? another anti-religion thread? broken down by your acceptance of the religious minded determined by their age. honestly sox this is a new retarded low for you man. seriously you really need to stay in threads dealing directly with sports. I've noticed every time you branch out you strain your brain too much and you show that you are just a young kid who doesn't know shit about the world.


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## KelJu (Sep 28, 2010)

IainDaniel said:


> No ignorant people limit critical thinking.



Yeah well, criminals commit crimes. But the underlying problem to crime stems from poverty. Similarly, Ignorance stems from an active decision to never question what you were taught and what you believe. Religion reinforces this this ignorance by adding the fear of eternal damnation to those who doubt or question.


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## SYN (Sep 28, 2010)




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## tucker01 (Sep 28, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Yeah well, criminals commit crimes. But the underlying problem to crime stems from poverty. Similarly, Ignorance stems from an active decision to never question what you were taught and what you believe. Religion reinforces this this ignorance by adding the fear of eternal damnation to those who doubt or question.



Religion is a tool, not the excuse.  I am sorry some people can't think for themselves.  But to lump everyone into the same boat who follows any given religion seems ludicrous.

Given your analogy criminals commit crimes, doesn't mean that Religious people are ignorant.  Sorry that you view, the minority as the whole. There are many great leaders, and scientists who happened to believe in a god or religion.


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## MyK (Sep 28, 2010)

SYN said:


>


 
offencive and unforgiveable. ban this half wit!!!


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## KelJu (Sep 28, 2010)

IainDaniel said:


> Religion is a tool, not the excuse.  I am sorry some people can't think for themselves.  But to lump everyone into the same boat who follows any given religion seems ludicrous.
> 
> Given your analogy criminals commit crimes, doesn't mean that Religious people are ignorant.  Sorry that you view, the minority as the whole. There are many great leaders, and scientists who happened to believe in a god or religion.



Your right, I worded that incorrectly. I meant to say poor people commit more crime, not criminals commit crime. Also, I have always said that religion is the tool. I don't disagree with you on that. I also can't help but to lump since we are speaking about general populations here. There are tons of smart intelligent, pleasant enough people who are religious just like there are hard working honest poor people, but that still doesn't mean I want to live in the ghetto.

also, You can possibly disagree that much of the time, religion stifles creative thought. The perfect example is when people try to explain the world in terms of God instead of science.


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## soxmuscle (Sep 28, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> So now having faith, or believing in a higher power constitutes idiocy?
> 
> Without getting into a religious debate which ironically enough has to be the pinnacle of stupidity (I'm surprised you missed that when you made the thread), I will state that I am a believer.  What I believe is sort of a moot point since the thread is addressing religion as a whole.  I don't remember ever pressing my belief system on you, or beginning a thread insulting agnostic/atheistic beliefs or the intelligence of the people with that mindset.  I am a very strong believer in being able to do what you want, when you want, and without having people all over you, as long as you aren't hurting anyone else.
> 
> ...



Yes.  There is no higher power, so yes, believing that there is one, is shortsighted and stupid.  The Scientific Revolution put to bed numerous debates, such as the shape of the Earth.  Believing that there is a higher power is like believing that the earth is flat, even though it's been proven not to be.

Congratulations, you're on the level of Sherri Shepherd:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNFQwp2whX7ra-a4GUMe66vUvgPZ0w&cad=rja

Yes, religious debates are stupid, but not as stupid as actually believing in religion.

I don't care what you do, because as you mentioned, it has no effect on me.  You're free to believe whatever you want to believe.  That doesn't mean what you believe is right, and that doesn't mean that I won't laugh at your beliefs and think your stupid for having those beliefs.

That's a very nice accomplishment.  I commend you for excelling at retaining information read in a book, but that doesn't mean anything for being able to critically think on your own and put it to use, something you aren't good at doing if you believe there is a higher power.

I also commend you for doing something with your life and living the American Dream, but all the good fortune you've received has nothing to do with blessings and everything to do with you working hard.  Pat yourself on the back, not some higher power.

In Greek mythology, it's stated that good fortune is bad, and bad fortune is good.  This is because good looks, having a big cock, etc. are completely arbitrary.  If you believe that the good things in your life happened because of blessings, you're wrong.  It's the bad fortune that makes us achieve the things we want to achieve.  In other words, the reason you have all those things, to me at least, isn't because you have been blessed, but because you learned from your mistakes and righted the ship.

Again, you deserve the credit, not some figment of your imagination in the sky.

I honestly couldn't care less that you believe in a higher power.  I just happen to think based off of science that you're living in a fantasy land.  That doesn't mean you're a bad person, that doesn't mean I'm going to egg your house for your beliefs, it's just a simple statement: you're wrong.


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## Arnold (Sep 28, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> To what extent do you follow religion.
> 
> In other words, are you educated and able to think for yourself or are you a fucking retard?



Not at all, I think for myself.


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## soxmuscle (Sep 28, 2010)

troubador said:


> Just like I can't hold it against you for growing up during this pop culture atheist movement. It's the perfect time for this and it's been so easy for people like Hitchens to sell this bubble gum atheism with its everyman morality. It's ironic for common people to think they're part of some enlightenment era when topics like this were brought to the forefront of public thought over 200 years ago and had significant government and social effects.



I don't consider myself to be secular or an atheist because that would mean I would have to "reject" religion.  I'm not rejecting religion because I disagree with it, I'm rejecting religion because its erroneous.

I still can go to Church and take things from it, as I would if I went to go hear somebody speak at the local Auditorium.  But living by the book, praising Allah or whatever the fuck it may be is crap.


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## soxmuscle (Sep 28, 2010)

DaMayor said:


> Lord, please strike down the jackass who started another yet religion thread, for he is retarded and knows not what he does. Amen.








YouTube Video


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## soxmuscle (Sep 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> really? another anti-religion thread? broken down by your acceptance of the religious minded determined by their age. honestly sox this is a new retarded low for you man. seriously you really need to stay in threads dealing directly with sports. I've noticed every time you branch out you strain your brain too much and you show that you are just a young kid who doesn't know shit about the world.



Honestly, mang, what do you disagree with?

I'm not breaking down religious acceptance based on age.  I'm simply saying that I can understand why the oldest people on this earth believe wholeheartedly in religion, and I can believe why the middle aged people on this earth are all over the map, and I can also believe why the younger generation tends to sway against religion.


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## Dale Mabry (Sep 28, 2010)

Honestly, I don't care what other people believe as long as they don't force it down my throat through prosthelitizing or trying to enforce bullshit laws on the rest of us.  For the most part, I would say that my view towards religion has become much more negative as of late, mostly because of the mosque thing and prop 8 stuff.  At the end of the day, I believe we are all animals, sitting in a petri dish, waiting to see what's going to happen.  And if there is a God, he could give 2 shits about us, save for maybe mild entertainment.


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## busyLivin (Sep 28, 2010)

I try to base my life off my own interpretation of Jesus Himself.  The Catholic Church to me is a guide to God, but it is a flawed institution run by men.  

I do think for myself.  I don't have anything against homosexuals, as I believe that when Jesus came to Earth he was with all the people the Jews called "outcasts" and "sinners" even though we all are.  For the church to target groups of people because of their sins is not right.  I don't believe the Church should allow homosexuals to marry as Catholics, but I really don't care if the state or federal governments allow it.  People have free will to do what they want & in the end they will be judged by God.  If it's wrong, He'll decide.

However, I do agree with them on topics like abortion, promiscuity, adultery, etc.  

How is this not thinking for myself?

Bottom line is that religion is run by men & is destined to be misused and abused.


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## Du (Sep 28, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Yeah well, criminals commit crimes. But the underlying problem to crime stems from poverty.




Hahaha, what a load of shit.


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## vortrit (Sep 28, 2010)

Du said:


> Hahaha, what a load of shit.



No it isn't. Didn't you know that middle and upper class people don't commit crimes.



Or maybe it was that they could just hire better lawyers - I can't recall.


----------



## TheGreatSatan (Sep 28, 2010)

From the church itself







YouTube Video


----------



## JDub (Sep 28, 2010)

No religion for me thanks.


----------



## TheGreatSatan (Sep 28, 2010)

Terrible Texts of the Bible



> RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY:
> "No one comes to the Father but by me" (John 14:6)
> This text has helped to create a world where adherents of one religion feel compelled to kill adherents of another. A veritable renaissance of religious terror now confronts us and is making against us the claims we have long made against religious traditions different from our own.
> 
> ...


----------



## KelJu (Sep 28, 2010)

TheGreatSatan said:


> From the church itself
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Of coarse the Church doesn't us them to grow up. They want us to stay 10 years old so they can molest us. 


Hahaha, I kid I kid! 

But seriously, that priest doesn't sound much like a priest. He sounds like an intelligent and rational man pretending to be a priest. Maybe he just wanted to get a little poontang.


----------



## TheGreatSatan (Sep 28, 2010)

He was an Episcopalian Bishop


----------



## KelJu (Sep 28, 2010)

TheGreatSatan said:


> He was an Episcopalian Bishop



Like I said...poontang!


----------



## REDDOG309 (Sep 28, 2010)

he looks like a mo to me


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 28, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> Honestly, mang, what do you disagree with?
> 
> I'm not breaking down religious acceptance based on age.  I'm simply saying that I can understand why the oldest people on this earth believe wholeheartedly in religion, and I can believe why the middle aged people on this earth are all over the map, and I can also believe why the younger generation tends to sway against religion.



here is the thing bro. I believe in God. Im intellectually superior to you. by your standards I'm retarded. where does that place you?


----------



## KelJu (Sep 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> here is the thing bro. I believe in God. Im intellectually superior to you. by your standards I'm retarded. where does that place you?




Ouch!


----------



## TheGreatSatan (Sep 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> here is the thing bro. I believe in God.



But do you believe that God is a Christian? That your religion is the only right way?


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 28, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Ouch!



too much?


----------



## KelJu (Sep 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> too much?



No man, it was a good burn!


----------



## soxmuscle (Sep 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> here is the thing bro. I believe in God. Im intellectually superior to you. by your standards I'm retarded. where does that place you?



In what ways are you intellectually superior to me?

I can applaud a good dig when I see one, but the logic behind it is more flawed than your belief in God.

Not to mention, you still haven't answered my question.  What do you disagree with?  How brainwas... I mean religious are you?  What are your religious beliefs?


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 28, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> In what ways are you intellectually superior to me?
> 
> I can applaud a good dig when I see one, but the logic behind it is more flawed than your belief in God.
> 
> Not to mention, you still haven't answered my question.  What do you disagree with?  How brainwas... I mean religious are you?  What are your religious beliefs?



I've got over 6000 posts here at IM and many of them deal with a religious topic. I feel I'm pretty well known here at IM. there is more than enough material to base a judgement on my level of intellect and religious beliefs. I'm really not wanting to get too involved in this thread. I just think that it was a really stupid thread. you have a good knowledge of sports. stick to those thread topics. this thread has no purpose other than asinine contention. the religious are not brainwashed. thinking that shows a lack of intelligence. I'm as religious as just about anyone on this site. you have 6000 plus posts of mine to work with. i'd love anyone to show where i'm not a free thinker.


----------



## maniclion (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm not superstitious, I love imagery though and have a wild imagination, fables are wonderful and I like the bible for that but I just can't take such things as being the ultimate rule book to live modern life by being that too much of that material is severely outdated....I wouldn't call my self a buddhist but out of all of the fables and folk lore I think more of it can stand the test of time mostly because it is more open minded it's whole premise being to sit down relax and think things through.....


----------



## soxmuscle (Sep 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> I've got over 6000 posts here at IM and many of them deal with a religious topic. I feel I'm pretty well known here at IM. there is more than enough material to base a judgement on my level of intellect and religious beliefs. I'm really not wanting to get too involved in this thread. I just think that it was a really stupid thread. you have a good knowledge of sports. stick to those thread topics. this thread has no purpose other than asinine contention. the religious are not brainwashed. thinking that shows a lack of intelligence. I'm as religious as just about anyone on this site. you have 6000 plus posts of mine to work with. i'd love anyone to show where i'm not a free thinker.



I can't recall any posts that you've made in regards to religion.  When I have time, I'll read up on your opinions and see where you stand.

Regardless, this thread absolutely has a purpose.  More of a purpose than religion in the 21st century, in fact.  

I read, I listen, I observe and I formulate my opinions based off of the entire body of work.  Upon doing so, I have concluded that Religion is an "asinine contention"; something that is no longer necessary, something that has gone completely away from what it originally set out to do, and something I don't feel is necessary to be apart of.

You're entitled to disagree with this assertion, just as I'm entitled to make it.  You can laugh at my assertion, and I'll laugh at yours.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 28, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> I can't recall any posts that you've made in regards to religion.  When I have time, I'll read up on your opinions and see where you stand.
> 
> Regardless, this thread absolutely has a purpose.  More of a purpose than religion in the 21st century, in fact.
> 
> ...


take the worst that religion has done and place it next to areas of the world devoid of religion. and you will see just how important religion is to the world. cambodia, stalin's russia, africa. DOMS has made this point tons of times. take away religion and the worst of mankind is left.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> take the worst that religion has done and place it next to areas of the world devoid of religion. and you will see just how important religion is to the world. cambodia, stalin's russia, africa. DOMS has made this point tons of times. take away religion and the worst of mankind is left.



I have to disagree with you there. Take Denmark for example. They are consistently ranked the happiest people on earth. The majority is agnostic or atheist. They seem to be doing just fine without the man in the sky theory. They also have a fraction of the violence in their society and never go to war.

Now take  middle east. Those people are highly religious, and look at how violent and miserable they are. We are talking abotu nation after nation full of religious zealots that will take your head off and blow up a bus with your mom and sister on it for their beliefs.

You and DOMS are wrong on that one. No way in hell you can argue against that.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 28, 2010)

KelJu said:


> I have to disagree with you there. Take Denmark for example. They are consistently ranked the happiest people on earth. The majority is agnostic or atheist. They seem to be doing just fine without the man in the sky theory. They also have a fraction of the violence in their society and never go to war.
> 
> Now take  middle east. Those people are highly religious, and look at how violent and miserable they are. We are talking abotu nation after nation full of religious zealots that will take your head off and blow up a bus with your mom and sister on it for their beliefs.
> 
> You and DOMS are wrong on that one. No way in hell you can argue against that.



you are comparing denmark to whats happening in africa? seriously.


----------



## maniclion (Sep 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> take the worst that religion has done and place it next to areas of the world devoid of religion. and you will see just how important religion is to the world. cambodia, stalin's russia, africa. DOMS has made this point tons of times. take away religion and the worst of mankind is left.



Funny thing is the savage Sub-Saharan Africa Doms loves to call upon has more Christians than we have in the US, in fact very few of the people are atheists because superstition is rife with uneducated people....I think it's not religion thats the problem nor the solution it's lack of education and being heavily religious that causes these problems.....overall the problem has always been that...

"At least two-thirds of our miseries spring from human stupidity, human malice and those great motivators and justifiers of malice and stupidity idealism, dogmatism and proselytizing zeal on behalf of religous or political ideas."   Aldous Huxley


----------



## KelJu (Sep 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> you are comparing denmark to whats happening in africa? seriously.



That isn't an answer, a rebuttal, or a reply. I don't know what you are trying to say.


----------



## MyK (Sep 28, 2010)




----------



## jmorrison (Sep 28, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> Yes.  There is no higher power, so yes, believing that there is one, is shortsighted and stupid.  The Scientific Revolution put to bed numerous debates, such as the shape of the Earth.  Believing that there is a higher power is like believing that the earth is flat, even though it's been proven not to be.



The 2 beliefs are not even similiar.  This is a horrible analogy.  One is a faith based belief, and one is observed physical phenomenon.  Who taught you debate?  Science has not disproven God, and in fact seems to support the theory of a guiding power.  Of course that last sentence is merely my opinion, but unlike you, I am not so arrogant as to try to pass my personal beliefs off as facts.



soxmuscle said:


> I don't care what you do, because as you mentioned, it has no effect on me.  You're free to believe whatever you want to believe.  That doesn't mean what you believe is right, and that doesn't mean that I won't laugh at your beliefs and think your stupid for having those beliefs.



Laughing at or mocking things that you don't understand is a classic sign of uneducated bigotry.  You are right.  I can believe whatever I want, as can you.  I just choose not to mock you for your beliefs because...well, because I am a better and smarter person than that.  For the record, I never claimed that what I believe is "right".  I only claim that it is what I believe.



soxmuscle said:


> That's a very nice accomplishment.  I commend you for excelling at retaining information read in a book, but that doesn't mean anything for being able to critically think on your own and put it to use, something you aren't good at doing if you believe there is a higher power.



I will chalk that up to what I assume is your ignorance on what air traffic control is.  I doubt I am stretching, as your ability to shoot your mouth off about things you have little knowledge of seems to be a strong suit of yours.  Air traffic control IS critical thinking.  The entire premise is that of situational awareness, decision making ability, the ability to sift through large amounts of information quickly, and making snap decisions with no outside guidance.  And oh yes, I did have to memorize quite a few things in a book too.  A big book.  Again, your assumption that a belief in a higher power shows a deficit in any sort of thinking is just unfounded ignorance.



soxmuscle said:


> I also commend you for doing something with your life and living the American Dream, but all the good fortune you've received has nothing to do with blessings and everything to do with you working hard.  Pat yourself on the back, not some higher power.



I sort of agree with you.  God helps those that help themselves, and I have definately worked hard for what I have.  However, my natural born gifts and abilities were not earned, nor were my decisions in life made without seeking guidance.



soxmuscle said:


> In Greek mythology, it's stated that good fortune is bad, and bad fortune is good.  This is because good looks, having a big cock, etc. are completely arbitrary.  If you believe that the good things in your life happened because of blessings, you're wrong.  It's the bad fortune that makes us achieve the things we want to achieve.  In other words, the reason you have all those things, to me at least, isn't because you have been blessed, but because you learned from your mistakes and righted the ship.



I also somewhat agree with this, but with one caveat.  My life used to be shit.  Of course I had no higher power to turn to or to seek guidance from.  When I stopped living for myself and the way I wanted to, and started living life for my children, my God and my family, and started living the way I SHOULD...my life improved immeasurably.



soxmuscle said:


> Again, you deserve the credit, not some figment of your imagination in the sky.
> 
> I honestly couldn't care less that you believe in a higher power.  I just happen to think based off of science that you're living in a fantasy land.  That doesn't mean you're a bad person, that doesn't mean I'm going to egg your house for your beliefs, it's just a simple statement: you're wrong.



Your entire argument seems to hinge on the belief that you are right, and I am wrong.  This is a faith based argument.  That is just an asanine way to approach this.  

I was not always a believer.  Like many others, something happened to me to make me into one.  I normally wouldn't share this on an internet forum, but why not?

There was a time in my life that I didn't know what to do, or how to handle a situation. My young son was diagnosed with epilepsy, and was having regular, intense seizures.  If you have never held your child during a seizure you have absolutely no idea how hard it hits you.  He was put on medicine that slowed down the seizures, but turned him into a zombie.  Spontaneous crying, depression, staring at the walls, etc.  I was essentially at the end of my rope.

A good friend of mine asked me to pray with him about it.  Believe what you want, I am simply relaying my story to you.  I threw everything at His feet, and just asked for guidance, help, and to tell me what to do, and the wierdest thing happened.  I got an answer.  It wasn't some loud booming voice coming from a burning bush, or anything quite so amazing, but it was a very strong impression of what to do.

I changed my son's diet, changed his exercise, and watched him get better.  We have now been seizure free for over 2 years, and no medicine.

Yes, I could easily chalk it up to self-education, and "pat myself on the back", but I was raised to be thankful when someone helps you, and to give credit where credit is due, and I know I was helped.  I am not crazy, unbalanced, stupid or confused.  I felt what I felt.  It only saddens me that everyone hasn't had an experience like that.

I dont tell this to change anyones mind.  Just relating my story, and why I feel like I do.

Oh, and by the way, I support gay marriage (HAH BIO!), so accusing me of being close minded is a little naive.  You CAN believe in a higher power, and still believe in science, medicine and progressive thinking.  To think otherwise is...well...close minded.


----------



## TheGreatSatan (Sep 28, 2010)

MyK 3.0 said:


>


----------



## BillHicksFan (Sep 28, 2010)

The belief in a higher power is a bi-product on our evolutionary past. There has never been any evidence to suggest that there is a higher power that is concious of its creations. 
We are a part of something amazing but God? Really? 
Education, science and knowledge destroys all religions at their core. This doesn't disprove the existence of God however it does disprove all man-made religions and it should make everybody question whether or not God created man or man created God.


----------



## TheGreatSatan (Sep 28, 2010)

I still worship the sun. I see it, it warms me, it gives life to plants, it makes me sweat off the fat, etc. There are many suns in the universe and that doesn't bother me. That I can believe in.


----------



## 200+ (Sep 28, 2010)




----------



## TheGreatSatan (Sep 28, 2010)

Worship this


----------



## soxmuscle (Sep 28, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> take the worst that religion has done and place it next to areas of the world devoid of religion. and you will see just how important religion is to the world. cambodia, stalin's russia, africa. DOMS has made this point tons of times. take away religion and the worst of mankind is left.



Stalin's Russia...


----------



## soxmuscle (Sep 28, 2010)

@jmorrison, in order:

Call it arrogance or whatever you would like, it doesn't bother me.  There is nothing to suggest your side of the argument from a scientific standpoint, and from a common sense standpoint, yours has no legs... like Lieutenant Dan:





YouTube Video










You choose not to mock me for my beliefs?  Excuse me?


"Who taught you debate?"
"uneducated bigotry"
"I am a better and smarter person"
It makes me laugh that me thinking your beliefs are laughable gives you such animosity towards me.  But you're not close-minded, right...

Ohhhh, more digs, as we dig (no pun intended) deeper into your angry rebuttal.  You know full well what I meant; just because a basketball player has an incredibly high basketball IQ doesn't mean it translates to other things.  You knowing all that there is to know about air traffic control is great and all, again I commend you, but it doesn't mean your critical thinking skills in other areas, religion in this case, are on the same level.  Haha, somebody is steamin' out the ears and can't stand that I don't believe as he does...

You believe that your natural born gifts and abilities are because God gave them to you?  Seems logical.

Wait, explain to me who gave you guidance in your decision making.

This part of your rebuttal is where all sorts of insanity rears its ugly head.

Ahhh... now I'm beginning to get it.  You, my friend, are weak sauce.

Great story, and I wish your son and family nothing but the best, but you're really going to credit God guiding you on this?  The fact that you can't see how crazy that is fascinates me.

Eating healthier/changing ones diet and becoming healthier through exercise made your son seizure free?  What a fucking concept...  

I was raised to be thankful when somebody helps me as well.  For instance, tonight some guy held the door for me when I had my hands full, and I thanked him for it.  However, when the answer to a common sense dilemma dawns on you, there is no credit to be given other than to yourself.

This higher power you speak of went into your brain and gave you the answers you so desperately needed to save your sons life?  It's absolutely crazy talk. 

Perhaps I came off as closeminded in my little rant last night, but I'm actually as openminded as they come.  I just interpret things in sane, rational ways, whereas you do not.


----------



## jmorrison (Sep 28, 2010)

I see now that you are just enjoying trying to get a rise out of people.  I give it up for being trolled.

In no way shape or form am I angry that you dont believe as I do.  I just find your insults to be offensive and unfounded.  Classic internet tough guy.  But pretty much what I would expect from a 22 year old, 5' 8" 150lb manling that frequents a bodybuilding site.  Wait...why are you here?

If I am crazy, I guess I will just continue on my crazy, successful, happy route in life, and you continue down your hate-filled, bigoted, close-minded one.

Oh and as to the insults you (mis)quoted me on.  Not a single one of those was directed at your belief system.

1. You are making horrible comparisons.  Your debate skills are terrible.  What does that have to do with your beliefs?  I just think you don't know how to make a coherent argument.

2. Mocking people and things you dont understand is a classic sign of uneducated bigotry.  I dont see what part of that you are struggling with.  It has nothing to do with religion.  Take anyone/anything that is different, and you will find the lower common denominators poking fun at it.

3. I would go out on a limb and say that I am probably better/smarter than you in just about any aspect of life.  Of course without knowing you that could be way off base, but I would bet cash that I make more money than you, have nicer things than you, have a hotter girl than you, have more friends than you, can score higher on basically any test, am bigger/stronger than you, am better liked by my friends than you, and overall just don't suck as badly as you.  

Of course I could be wrong.


But I don't think so.

Regardless, none of that has to do with your beliefs.  Quite a few people on this site are non-christian/athiest/agnostic.  Since this isnt an Atheist/Christian site, it really doesn't make too much of an impact.  You are the one that posted an insulting thread calling others stupid for believing differently than you.


----------



## soxmuscle (Sep 28, 2010)

The Almighty says _don't change the subject_; _just answer the fucking question_:



 You believe that your natural born gifts and abilities are because God gave them to you?
 who gave you guidance in your decision making
 This higher power you speak of went into your brain and gave you the answers you so desperately needed to save your sons life?
 you're really going to credit God guiding you on this?

Ahhh.. edited.


----------



## Nightowl (Sep 28, 2010)

MyK 3.0 said:


>


 
well, at least it is a picture of a women


----------



## 200+ (Sep 28, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> The Almighty says _don't change the subject_; _just answer the fucking question_:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You obviously think 'God' is some dude sitting on a cloud somewhere in the 'heavens'


----------



## jmorrison (Sep 28, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> The Almighty says _don't change the subject_; _just answer the fucking question_:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I apologize, I didnt realize that there were legit questions in there.  Kind of ridiculous to answer them since you are only going to go with the unfounded "crazy" again, but sure I will give it a whirl.

1. Yes.  I believe that your natural born abilities and gifts are exactly that.  "Gifts" to be grateful for.  Just a personal opinion.

2. To be honest, I questioned that a lot too.  I am self educated, and so have been self reliant for many years, and so this was hard for me to swallow, and I was the one being guided.  I certainly wouldn't expect someone on a forum to just mindlessly accept it, I am just relaying my story.

3. This is the crucial one, and what really started me down this road.  Yes man.  I wholeheartedly do.  If you had any idea of just how broken down I was you would understand.  Divorce, custody fights, and then sickness in my son...I was just about as busted up as it comes, and I lost my compass completely.  I had absolutely no idea what to do, and when I flat out just asked for help, and meant it genuinely...I just knew what to do after that.  The weirdest part was that not one doctor that we were seeing even suggested steering away from processed foods, dyes or any of that.  It just came to me to start looking into dietary information that could affect this.  My son is a skinny kid, so I never even considered his diet to be an issue, and suddenly I just knew.  Could it have just been my subconcious?  Well sure, I guess so, and I could chalk it up to that, but man, you just dont understand that I KNEW.  I could feel it in every bone in my body, and I knew before I started changing anything that it would fix him up.  

4. Unequivocally.  I know how I thought before I asked for help, and I know how I felt afterwards, and nothing I can write here can adequately describe it.



Again, this isn't to change anyones mind.  Hell, 3 years ago I would have agreed with you.  Well, not about the stupidity part, I still would have been respectful enough to not slam people for their beliefs, but I had given up on the idea of a God too.  Too much happened and it was too blatant for me to keep ignoring it though.


----------



## troubador (Sep 28, 2010)

BillHicksFan said:


> The belief in a higher power is a bi-product on our evolutionary past. There has never been any evidence to suggest that there is a higher power that is concious of its creations.
> We are a part of something amazing but God? Really?
> Education, science and knowledge destroys all religions at their core.



"I am trying to build up the idea that animal behavior, altruistic or selfish, is under the control of genes in only an indirect but still very powerful sense...

Is there any experimental evidence for the genetic inheritance of altruistic behaviour? No, but that is hardly surprising, since little work has been done on the genetics of any behavior." ~ The Selfish Gene' p.64

That's Dawkins taking heed of the scientific method in support of his 'scientific' theories.(<-sarcasm)
It's disturbing that so many people read this stuff by bubble gum atheists getting passed off as science; atheists who preach morality is innate and they know what is moral. It's weak science and junk philosophy that pop culture atheists sell to the masses. Atheism has become more popular but the quality has greatly suffered because of this catering to the masses, the herd if you will.


----------



## soxmuscle (Sep 28, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> Oh and as to the insults you (mis)quoted me on.  Not a single one of those was directed at your belief system.
> 
> 1. You are making horrible comparisons.  Your debate skills are terrible.  What does that have to do with your beliefs?  I just think you don't know how to make a coherent argument.
> 
> ...



The reason you're taking time out of your day to argue this is because people not believing in a higher power angers you.  There is no other explanation as to why you're so outspoken about this.  Religion incites emotion, and this thread got under your skin.  You should look past the laughing.

1. 

My comparisons are perfectly acceptable.  

My debate skills are just fine.  

I've made several coherent arguments in this thread but because you disagree with them and because you're so passionate about your faith, you've resorted to name calling in retaliation.  

I can't begin to fathom the religious shenanigans that's spewing from your keyboard, so much so that it's laughable to me.  But that doesn't mean that I'm not classy, a troll, and all the other bullshit you've been saying tonight.

Again: you're entitled to disagree with my assertion, just as I'm entitled to make it. You can laugh at my assertion, and I'll laugh at yours.

2. 

I'm unable to comprehend how you could think the way you think, as you are with the way I think.  To me, your beliefs are a classic sign of uneducated bigotry.

"Take anyone/anything that is different, and you will find the lower common denominators poking fun at it" - 


3.

"I would go out on a limb and say that I am probably better/smarter than you in just about any aspect of life. Of course without knowing you that could be way off base, but I would bet cash that I make more money than you, have nicer things than you, have a hotter girl than you, have more friends than you, can score higher on basically any test, am bigger/stronger than you, am better liked by my friends than you, and overall just don't suck as badly as you."






I knew religious debates could incite emotion, but this is some incredible stuff.


----------



## soxmuscle (Sep 28, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> Regardless, none of that has to do with your beliefs.  Quite a few people on this site are non-christian/athiest/agnostic.  Since this isnt an Atheist/Christian site, it really doesn't make too much of an impact.  *You are the one that posted an insulting thread calling others stupid for believing differently than you.*



You're insulted because I think religion is stupid?


----------



## jmorrison (Sep 28, 2010)

No, I am insulted because you think that people that believe in religion are stupid.  Big difference and you know it.

I am not sure what the picture was supposed to mean?  Is that you?  If so, good job on the tan.  I wish I wasn't so pasty white.


----------



## soxmuscle (Sep 28, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> I apologize, I didnt realize that there were legit questions in there.  Kind of ridiculous to answer them since you are only going to go with the unfounded "crazy" again, but sure I will give it a whirl.
> 
> 1. Yes.  I believe that your natural born abilities and gifts are exactly that.  "Gifts" to be grateful for.  Just a personal opinion.
> 
> ...



1. What are you basing this off of?

2. Yes, there is no way I'm going to believe that you were "guided" based off this story.

3. It sounds compelling, it really does.  When my brother was sick for a month and the doctors couldn't figure out why, I researched and thought it could be type 1 diabetes as a result.  Sure enough, it was.  

My Mother gets sucked in by this Reliv product, and I asked on here, looked into all the ingredients and concluded that it wasn't any better than a multivitamin, the unfathomable problems that people had credited this product for solving were ridiculous and at best a placebo - regardless, my Mother has always had trouble eating, and because it has good vitamin filled calories, even though she thinks its going to make her live to 150 and I know that it will not, I understand and accept that she takes it.

My point:


In my head, it isn't a higher being propelling me to research things.  I wanted to help my brother, he was sick, so I did it.  In my opinion, you wanted to solve this problem so badly that you were able to, without any assistance from a higher power.  Like adrenaline.
I can accept religion and I can see it's benefits to some, but as I've said time and time again, to me, it's silly.
4. Okay, then. 

Slam people for their beliefs?


----------



## soxmuscle (Sep 28, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> No, I am insulted because you think that people that believe in religion are stupid.  Big difference and you know it.
> 
> I am not sure what the picture was supposed to mean?  Is that you?  If so, good job on the tan.  I wish I wasn't so pasty white.



If you read above, I don't necessarily think that you are stupid.  I just can't fathom thinking that way.

The picture is of The Situation.  Your rant was narcissistic in nature and downright hysterical.  You reminded me of him.


----------



## Du (Sep 28, 2010)

If there is a God, why did he give the world chlamydia?


----------



## soxmuscle (Sep 28, 2010)




----------



## Little Wing (Sep 28, 2010)

last i knew dicks weren't allowed in open chat. 

take that to mean anything you want.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 28, 2010)

man has had a spiritual hunger since the dawn of time and always will have. seems to be a lot more human garbage roaming the streets with each new generation doesn't it? maybe people are in need of a moral compass and to be kept in line more than ever. it sure fucking seems so.


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## soxmuscle (Sep 28, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> last i knew dicks weren't allowed in open chat.
> 
> take that to mean anything you want.



Well played.


----------



## SYN (Sep 28, 2010)

I've been skimming this thread n this just stuck out......



bio-chem said:


> I believe in God. Im intellectually superior to you.





soxmuscle said:


> In what ways are you intellectually superior to me?





bio-chem said:


> *I've got over 6000 posts here at IM and many of them deal with a religious topic.* I feel I'm pretty well known here at IM. there is more than enough material to base a judgement on my level of intellect and religious beliefs.



this was going to be a long rambling about how basic human dignity is more important than religion or who's right and who's wrong in what beliefs, and that making a bunch of posts about being religious doesn't make you any smarter than the guy who's just now figuring out Moses didn't part the red sea, but after sitting here all I can think is that I've wasted the last 20 minutes of my life trying to think of a way to explain something that neither of you are _willing_ to understand.    

You'd rather sit here and bicker with each other like a couple pre-schoolers fighting over mr.potato head than come to the terms with the fact that you're both absolutely correct, and both horribly wrong.


----------



## soxmuscle (Sep 28, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> man has had a spiritual hunger since the dawn of time and always will have. seems to be a lot more human garbage roaming the streets with each new generation doesn't it? maybe people are in need of a moral compass and to be kept in line more than ever. it sure fucking seems so.



Spiritual, yes.  Being told the proper way to live your life, I'm not so sure.  I think there is a lot of good that comes from religion, but it shouldn't be needed to perform good deeds or to not perform bad ones.  Morals, knowing right from wrong, is something instilled in me by my upbringing.  I treat people the right way, am honest, kind, unselfish... I think my moral compass is just fine, thanks to good parenting.


----------



## soxmuscle (Sep 28, 2010)

SYN said:


> I've been skimming this thread n this just stuck out......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I disagree that investing time in a message board spat makes you an idiot, because you've certainly done so yourself, as I have, as we all have.  Religion, politics, the Yankees... these things drive people insane.  You repped me last night with "Be careful...there are a few of those \'retards\' on here...poor bastards."  You and I both knew full well that there would be a reaction to this thread, and 24 hours later, here it is.

Anyways, I think you make some excellent points.  Especially in bold.


----------



## SYN (Sep 28, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> I disagree that investing time in a message board spat makes you an idiot, because you've certainly done so yourself, as I have, as we all have.  Religion, politics, the Yankees... these things drive people insane.  You repped me last night with "Be careful...there are a few of those \'retards\' on here...poor bastards."  You and I both knew full well that there would be a reaction to this thread, and 24 hours later, here it is.
> 
> Anyways, I think you make some excellent points.  Especially in bold.



When I first read that I thought you said I raped you.  

I was referring to this thread in particular. Anybody who's in this thread, preaching from either side is doing nothing but wasting their time to preach on deaf ears.  Both sides of this argument have their feet so firmly planted in the ground that neither one is willing to give an inch, even if it means they'll gain a mile.  It's been that way for years and years, and probably isn't going to change until people just start leaving each other the hell alone about it.  There's been quite a few times where I've had spats on here that lasted for days, with posts that went on for miles, and one of the last ones was about religion.  Religion is something I feel strongly about, and trust me, it's really hard for me to not be in this thread ranting and raving my ass off and chewing this guy and that guy a new hole to breath through in their neck, but it would be incredibly stupid of me to even try.  

I do think that people who take the whole entire bible to be the literal, unchanged, true word of god, are loony to say the least.  But I also think believing that someone/something put us here, aided us in our survival and told us to love and care for each other is probably one of the least crazy things a person could do.


----------



## jmorrison (Sep 28, 2010)

SYN said:


> You'd rather sit here and bicker with each other like a couple pre-schoolers fighting over mr.potato head than come to the terms with the fact that you're both absolutely correct, and both horribly wrong.




Actually this is incorrect.  Maybe you should do more than skim.

I am not arguing for the merits of religion in the slightest.  What you, Sox, Bio, or anyone else believes is a personal matter.  I am only arguing that a belief in a higher power does not constitute idiocy.  

So no, we are not "both right" and both "horribly wrong".  His posts are in the same vein of any elitist, such as rascism or social ranking.

What neither of you seem to grasp is that saying that people who are religious are mentally deficient in some way is EXACTLY like saying "Black people are criminals", or "Poor people are too stupid to make money".  Are there black criminals?  Yes.  Are there stupid among the poor?  Of course.  But just like every single blanket statement made in the history of the internet....all three are just categorically wrong.  

You should read the thread instead of skimming.  I dont think I have actually seen anyone in this thread argue FOR religion, only arguing that their faith doesn't automatically turn them into some sort of social "retard" as you so eloquently put it.  

The sheer arrogance is astounding.


----------



## SYN (Sep 28, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> Actually this is incorrect.  Maybe you should do more than skim.



Skimming leads to reading interesting things, and that leads to reading whole threads.  Hence having to edit that post 6 times, and I still stand by what you just quoted.  They're both implying that one is smarter than the other for believing what they believe. It's like arguing about who has the better shoes when you're both wearing Nike. They'd rather argue about the details than just both agree that they're equally good people. 



jmorrison said:


> I am not arguing for the merits of religion in the slightest.  What you, Sox, Bio, or anyone else believes is a personal matter.  *I am only arguing that a belief in a higher power does not constitute idiocy*.



Are _you_ skimming? because I don't see where _I_ said anything like that, and I have been quite careful not to take _either_ side in this thread.  In the past here I've made myself very clear on how I feel about religion/homosexuality, religion/war and religion/science, but I have also been pretty clear about what I consider to be someone who's been so religiously brainwashed they can no longer think for themselves and a normal person who believes in god and goes to church.  




jmorrison said:


> So no, we are not "both right" and both "horribly wrong".  His posts are in the same vein of any elitist, such as rascism or social ranking.
> 
> *What neither of you seem to grasp is that saying that people who are religious are mentally deficient in some way* is EXACTLY like saying "Black people are criminals", or "Poor people are too stupid to make money".  Are there black criminals?  Yes.  Are there stupid among the poor?  Of course.  But just like every single blanket statement made in the history of the internet....all three are just categorically wrong.



Show me again where I said that....Nevermind. Found it.  





> I'm sure there are plenty of people in all the nutty houses who are writing 'Jesus loves me' on the wall in their own excrement as we speak. And there are also plenty of doctors with their hands wrist deep in some kids chest praying to god that donor hearts going to start pumping. Religion can be the driving force of insanity, or kindness, it depends on the individual.



Yea, I totally just called all religious people retarded right there. 



SYN said:


> But I also think believing that someone/something put us here, aided us in our survival and told us to love and care for each other is probably one of the least crazy things a person could do.



And there



jmorrison said:


> You should read the thread instead of skimming.  I dont think I have actually seen anyone in this thread argue FOR religion, only arguing that their faith doesn't automatically turn them into some sort of social "retard" as you so eloquently put it.
> 
> The sheer arrogance is astounding.




I'm not even sure we're reading the same thread.


And by the way I'd like to just point out the fact that 10 minutes before you started bitching at me you were giving me reps for the same exact post you're bitching about now, just worded differently.  That really doesn't do a whole lot for your "better, smarter person" bull from page 3.


----------



## jmorrison (Sep 29, 2010)

I repped you before you edited your thread.

My original statement was directed at Sox, not you.

You called believers "retards" in your PM to Sox.

Next.


----------



## SYN (Sep 29, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> I repped you before you edited your thread.
> 
> My original statement was directed at Sox, not you.
> 
> ...



I didn't change anything about that message other than the wording.  Read what I ened up with and what sox quoted.  It's the same statement, just different words. Sorry you can't understand that. 

I repped him when this thread was still on the first page.  Before anybody started acting like an asshole in here, with the word 'retard' in quotations. I wasn't saying all religious people are retarded, just letting him know he'd opened a BIG can of worms.  If you'd been paying attention to anything I've said here you'd see that I clearly do not think anybody is "retarded" for believing in god. There's a difference  between being a believer and being a brainwashed tard that lets themselves be defined by a book.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 29, 2010)

troubador said:


> "I am trying to build up the idea that animal behavior, altruistic or selfish, is under the control of genes in only an indirect but still very powerful sense...
> 
> Is there any experimental evidence for the genetic inheritance of altruistic behaviour? No, but that is hardly surprising, since little work has been done on the genetics of any behavior." ~ The Selfish Gene' p.64
> .



That is a quote from 1976! A lot has changed in the last 34 years. We have been mapping genes like crazy. Cognitive neuroscientist have worked with geneticist and have mapped 100s of behavioral genes.


----------



## troubador (Sep 29, 2010)

KelJu said:


> That is a quote from 1976! A lot has changed in the last 34 years. We have been mapping genes like crazy. Cognitive neuroscientist have worked with geneticist and have mapped 100s of behavioral genes.



The point was Dawkins himself stated that there was no evidence for his theory. This was passed off as good science. There's this inference that if something is labeled 'science' then it must be true along with everything associated. Dawkins put out a book about evolutionary biology, sociology and ethology and people are under the impression this is a science the same way chemistry is a science. It's a guise for promoting his junk philosophy.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 29, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> Actually this is incorrect.  Maybe you should do more than skim.
> 
> I am not arguing for the merits of religion in the slightest.  What you, Sox, Bio, or anyone else believes is a personal matter.  I am only arguing that a belief in a higher power does not constitute idiocy.
> 
> ...



must spread reputation around before repping jmorisson again


----------



## Nightowl (Sep 29, 2010)

KelJu said:


> That is a quote from 1976! A lot has changed in the last 34 years. We have been mapping genes like crazy. Cognitive neuroscientist have worked with geneticist and have mapped 100s of behavioral genes.


 

here here, it is with over 50 years of work for the criminal science divisions.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

Whatever religion you are it sucks and you are stupid.


















j/k


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 29, 2010)

KelJu said:


> That is a quote from 1976! A lot has changed in the last 34 years. We have been mapping genes like crazy. Cognitive neuroscientist have worked with geneticist and have mapped 100s of behavioral genes.



and none of that disproves God. lol


----------



## DiGiTaL (Sep 29, 2010)

Certain someone on this thread could really use a little bit of religion...


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## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> and none of that disproves God. lol



You cannot prove there is a god, and you cannot prove that there is not one. That is why it's called *faith*. And if you believe in it there is no point in arguing with someone who don't.


----------



## SYN (Sep 29, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> and none of that disproves God. lol



Nobody is trying to disprove god here.  Just sayin.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 29, 2010)

SYN said:


> Nobody is trying to disprove god here.  Just sayin.



It seems to me that the OP was saying science has shown religion and God to be false. maybe I read that wrong.


----------



## DaMayor (Sep 29, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> It seems to me that the OP was saying science has shown religion and God to be false. maybe I read that wrong.



I read it as, "Doh, I am soxmuscle and in grate neeed of attenshun. I think I will post a genoralyzed rant about religion....Oh lookie! A pickchur of a weenie!"

Proof that retardation is not limited to Jesus Freaks. .


----------



## SYN (Sep 29, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> It seems to me that the OP was saying science has shown religion and God to be false. maybe I read that wrong.



OP?

I think all KelJu(that's who you quoted so...) was saying is that people know a hell of a lot more about the world around them today than they did 34 years ago.  There is way too much evidence to dismiss evolution. Since man has started studying the earth around him we've watched hundreds of species evolve, and change, however minor that change may be, it happened and it can't be discredited by somebody that hasn't been around for the past 2000 years. 
None of that disproves that there's a god, and if somebody came up to me and said "God can't be real because of evolution" I would seriously question their thought process. 







Just a thought but, in my opinion the bible itself supports the theory of evolution in a way.  In the story of Adam and Eve does god not make man from dirt?  It says right in there, and probably more than once, that man came from earth.  
Same basic story. Different wording.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 29, 2010)

DaMayor said:


> I read it as, "Doh, I am soxmuscle and in grate neeed of attenshun. I think I will post a genoralyzed rant about religion....Oh lookie! A pickchur of a weenie!"
> 
> Proof that retardation is not limited to Jesus Freaks. .



bahahahhahha.

the multiple mis-spelled words was a nice touch.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 29, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> It seems to me that the OP was saying science has shown religion and God to be false. maybe I read that wrong.




and is it not a fact that some of the most brilliant scientists and free thinkers the world has known were, and are, men of faith?


----------



## DaMayor (Sep 29, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> bahahahhahha.
> 
> the multiple mis-spelled words was a nice touch.



Tank Yoo.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 29, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> and is it not a fact that some of the most brilliant scientists and free thinkers the world has known were, and are, men of faith?



that can't possibly be true LW. because those who believe in God are obviously retarded, brainwashed individuals who are incapable of independent thought.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 29, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> and none of that disproves God. lol



I never said it did. I have never once made the argument that science can prove or disprove the existence of God.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 29, 2010)

KelJu said:


> I never said it did. I have never once made the argument that science can prove or disprove the existence of God.



this is true. i retract that statement in that context


----------



## KelJu (Sep 29, 2010)

Du said:


> Hahaha, what a load of shit.



Poverty breeds crime, that's a fact.


----------



## jennygymbunny (Sep 29, 2010)

I don't think people that believe in god are retarded, just naive. The world is too infinite and there is so much we don't know that there is no way any one person or group knows who God is and his story. I think there's some sort of higher power but religion is man-made and has caused more wars than oil. So there probably is some sort of god but religion is just one huge contradiction...


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 29, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> that can't possibly be true LW. because those who believe in God are obviously retarded, brainwashed individuals who are incapable of independent thought.



there is nothing quite so impermeable as a closed mind. it's a waste of breath to try. anyone truly seeking to understand would ask in a much more respectful manner.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)




----------



## KelJu (Sep 29, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> there is nothing quite so impermeable as a closed mind. it's a waste of breath to try. anyone truly seeking to understand would ask in a much more respectful manner.



This is true. I admit that I am a total dickhead when it comes to Christians, but I have my reasons for it. Growing up around psychotic bible thumpers most of my life will give you plenty of reason to hate them. If Christians would just keep the god damn religion to themselves, I wouldn't have a single bad thing to say about the issue. I am sick and fucking tired of their backwards ass beliefs interfering with how I live my life. 

They have been trying to force what I do, what I say, what to think, and what I put into my body my entire life. I am fucking sick of it! I fucking hate them.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 29, 2010)

Oh, and another thing. The current trends show Christianity is in decline as the percentage of Americans who claim to be christian falls. When the shoe is on the other foot, and you are in the minority, I hope everything you hold dear is made illegal. I hope you are fucked with non-stop and your rights are trampled upon every day of you life.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 29, 2010)

KelJu said:


> This is true. I admit that I am a total dickhead when it comes to Christians, but I have my reasons for it. Growing up around psychotic bible thumpers most of my life will give you plenty of reason to hate them. If Christians would just keep the god damn religion to themselves, I wouldn't have a single bad thing to say about the issue. I am sick and fucking tired of their backwards ass beliefs interfering with how I live my life.
> 
> They have been trying to force what I do, what I say, what to think, and what I put into my body my entire life. I am fucking sick of it! I fucking hate them.



i think the respect should go both ways. not believing or believing differently should not be impeached.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

KelJu said:


> I hope you are fucked with non-stop and your rights are trampled upon every day of you life.



Same to you, pal. Not that I'm religious - I just think that's a douchbag thing to say to anyone.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 29, 2010)

vortrit said:


> Same to you, pal. Not that I'm religious - I just think that's a douchbag thing to say to anyone.



I'm not trying to make friends here. I believe a little karmic justice is in order.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 29, 2010)

i think it's very short sighted to think religion in all it's guises will be gone in 100 years. the questions and feelings that lead men to seek out such a thing will not disappear and neither will the comfort people get from their faith. i know a woman who just lost a baby in her 8 month of pregnancy. i know too it is her faith that will help her through this. some things will never change.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

KelJu said:


> I'm not trying to make friends here. I believe a little karmic justice is in order.



I personally don't care about your beliefs meaning it don't matter to me if you are religious or not. I am not going to take a stance on this either way on the issue and don't want to get too involved. For some reason that part of what you wrote caught my eye though. 

I just think it's funny you would say you wish something bad on someone then use the words karmic justice.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 29, 2010)

KelJu said:


> I'm not trying to make friends here. I believe a little karmic justice is in order.



i wish karma kicked ass more often. instead you get healthy pedophiles and little kids with cancer. but the "taste of their own medicine" thinking isn't all bad. to a person with a sense of justice it can seen very fair.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 29, 2010)

vortrit said:


> I personally don't care about your beliefs meaning it don't matter to me if you are religious or not. I am not going to take a stance on this either way on the issue and don't want to get too involved. For some reason that part of what you wrote caught my eye though.
> 
> I just think it's funny you would say you wish something bad on someone then use the words karmic justice.



he's talking about religious people who try and force others to live by their values not their own. impede the freedoms of others. like idiots who picket outside a gay person's home etc. i don't think it's wrong to wish they get tit for tat.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> he's talking about religious people who try and force others to live by their values not their own. impede the freedoms of others. like idiots who picket outside a gay person's home etc. i don't think it's wrong to wish they get tit for tat.



Oh, my bad then. I should have read the whole thing but couldn't really be bothered with it. In that case I agree.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 29, 2010)

just a thought. in any community now it seems there are people in desperate need of food, shelter, etc who cannot provide well enough for themselves and their families. it's the churches who reach out and they do it regardless of a person's beliefs.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 29, 2010)

vortrit said:


> I personally don't care about your beliefs meaning it don't matter to me if you are religious or not. I am not going to take a stance on this either way on the issue and don't want to get too involved. For some reason that part of what you wrote caught my eye though.
> 
> I just think it's funny you would say you wish something bad on someone then use the words karmic justice.




Stop being such a pussy. Don't even act like you have never thought that it would be funny to see the reaction of a group of people to have the things they did to others turned back on themselves.  

Anyway, wishing for karma keeps me from burning down churches, and my rants keep me from blowing a head gasket. Your reading too much into what I say.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 29, 2010)

vortrit said:


> Oh, my bad then. I should have read the whole thing but couldn't really be bothered with it. In that case I agree.



i recently saw a vid of just that. some religious group had been protesting outside a gay couples home for years in a neighborhood where they didn't even live. the neighbors came outside and told them to shove off. people like those protesters are a minority. not all ball players are dog fighters either but sometimes an individual can color peoples ideas about a certain thing. one bad apple doesn't spoil the bushel, to a person with any sense anyway. Kelju was speaking of people who force their views down your throats not the whole lot.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Stop being such a pussy. Don't even act like you have never thought that it would be funny to see the reaction of a group of people to have the things they did to others turned back on themselves.



Not wishing bad things to happen to people does not make me a pussy. I'm sure to start caring what you think in the not-too-distant future so keep an eye out. How do you know what I think or how I think? I really don't think you do.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 29, 2010)

karma is one of the coolest ideas out there. i wish to hell it did work like i think it should.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> i recently saw a vid of just that. some religious group had been protesting outside a gay couples home for years in a neighborhood where they didn't even live. the neighbors came outside and told them to shove off. people like those protesters are a minority. not all ball players are dog fighters either but sometimes an individual can color peoples ideas about a certain thing. one bad apple doesn't spoil the bushel, to a person with any sense anyway. Kelju was speaking of people who force their views down your throats not the whole lot.



I definitely don't believe in pushing beliefs on someone anymore than I do with people pushing their nonbeliefs on someone. A majority of people (around here anyway) who go to church on Sunday do just that, have their beliefs, and don't bother anyone. In that case I see no problem with it. Every religion has their extremist and their are even extremist nonbelievers.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 29, 2010)

vortrit said:


> Not wishing bad things to happen to people does not make me a pussy. I'm sure to start caring what you think in the not-too-distant future so keep an eye out. How do you know what I think or how I think? I really don't think you do.



Ok, well lets take a look at what you said to me. 



vortrit said:


> Same to you, pal. Not that I'm religious - I just think that's a douchbag thing to say to anyone.



Same to me. Same to me? So let me gets this straight. You just said the exact same thing that I am saying only in fewer words. Then you place judgment on me for what I said. 

I'm calling you out on being a hippocrite.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 29, 2010)

honest to god i saw two grown men get in a fist fight over dish soap one day. some people are prone to being dicks and will use any excuse. i think even with or without religion men would fight and piss on each other for their views. to each his own and judge a man by his deeds.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 29, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> honest to god i saw two grown men get in a fist fight over dish soap one day. some people are prone to being dicks and will use any excuse. i think even with or without religion men would fight and piss on each other for their views. to each his own and judge a man by his deeds.



My brother and I had a fistfight about 5 years ago over who was the last person to take ice out of the ice-tray.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 29, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> he's talking about religious people who try and force others to live by their values not their own. impede the freedoms of others. like idiots who picket outside a gay person's home etc. i don't think it's wrong to wish they get tit for tat.





vortrit said:


> Oh, my bad then. I should have read the whole thing but couldn't really be bothered with it. In that case I agree.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

KelJu said:


> I'm calling you out on being a hippocrite.



Woopee doo! You wanna gold star?


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 29, 2010)

KelJu said:


> My brother and I had a fistfight about 5 years ago over who was the last person to take ice out of the ice-tray.



that pisses me off too. use ice refill the tray. seems simple.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 29, 2010)

vortrit said:


> Woopee doo! You wanna gold star?



Nope. Just the fact alone that you now know you are a hypocrite and a little  bitch is a gold star for me.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Nope. Just the fact alone that you now know you are a hypocrite and a little  bitch is a gold star for me.



It takes a big pair of balls to call someone a little bitch on the internet. Awesome!


----------



## KelJu (Sep 29, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> that pisses me off too. use ice refill the tray. seems simple.



That wasn't the issue. We had an ice-marker that made ice really slow, so it was more of a fight about which one of us was using too much ice. My brother and I have very similar personalities, so you could imagine what two of me having a verbal argument would lead to. Almost every time it ended in violence.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 29, 2010)

no porn for 3 days for either of you. now stop fighting before i make it a week.


----------



## Dark Geared God (Sep 29, 2010)




----------



## DaMayor (Sep 29, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Poverty breeds crime, that's a fact.



Poverty breeds crime.......the consummate cop out.

A Poor up~bringing breeds crime. Lack of Morals and/or Ethics breeds crime.
Ignorance breeds crime. To say that an impoverished environment breeds crime simply excuses the poor from acknowledging and following the rules of law. It is this interpretation that has given every thug and white trash hater an easy way out.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 29, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> no porn for 3 days for either of you. now stop fighting before i make it a week.



bah, LW you got it all wrong. 3 days with out porn will make them both more frustrated. the answer for those 2  is more porn, not less!


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> bah, LW you got it all wrong. 3 days with out porn will make them both more frustrated. the answer for those 2  is *more porn*, not less!



Agreed!


----------



## maniclion (Sep 29, 2010)

KelJu said:


> This is true. I admit that I am a total dickhead when it comes to Christians, but I have my reasons for it. Growing up around psychotic bible thumpers most of my life will give you plenty of reason to hate them. If Christians would just keep the god damn religion to themselves, I wouldn't have a single bad thing to say about the issue. I am sick and fucking tired of their backwards ass beliefs interfering with how I live my life.
> 
> They have been trying to force what I do, what I say, what to think, and what I put into my body my entire life. I am fucking sick of it! I fucking hate them.


My problem isn't the overzealous they can be picked out of a crowd and avoided, it's the mindless drones who grew up thinking they were christians just because most people in their community are, folks who may have gone to church a handful of times and just gravitated toward identifying as a "christian", they don't know why except for it's the american way.  They never question any of the ways of thinking and see the zealous as more like cheer leaders for them even though they think they're a little bit crazy...


----------



## KelJu (Sep 29, 2010)

vortrit said:


> It takes a big pair of balls to call someone a little bitch on the internet. Awesome!



Oh, like walking into a conversation and telling a total stranger "hey fuck you same to you douchebag!" Is grown up behavior that people practice everyday. I had never said anything derogatory to you or about you until you decided to be a White Knight of the internet. 

"I don't wish bad things on other people, but fuck you and same to you." That sentence basically negates itself in case you didn't notice.


----------



## ZECH (Sep 29, 2010)

I believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the atonement of sins. I guess that makes me an idiot. But I will go to the grave believing this. My religion tells me to pray for others and forgive them. So I'm going to church tonight and in the the words of aunt Ester on Sanford and Sons, pray for all you heathens!


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## Du (Sep 29, 2010)

I believe in God; I do not believe in Religion.


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## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Oh, like walking into a conversation and telling a total stranger "hey fuck you same to you douchebag!" Is grown up behavior that people practice everyday. I had never said anything derogatory to you or about you until you decided to be a White Knight of the internet.
> 
> "I don't wish bad things on other people, but fuck you and same to you." That sentence basically negates itself in case you didn't notice.



However you just totally ignore the part where I said "it was my bad, I walked in on the middle of the conversation" - I had admitted I had not read the whole thing. I originally caught what you wrote and replied in the heat of the moment, and my apology. I don't particularly wish anything bad to happen to you or anyone. Funny how you missed that part and just want to drag it on. I made a vain attempt at apoligizing once. I did it twice, and I am done.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 29, 2010)

vortrit said:


> However you just totally ignore the part where I said "it was my bad, I walked in on the middle of the conversation" - I had admitted I had not read the whole thing. I originally caught what you wrote and replied in the heat of the moment, and my apology. I don't particularly wish anything bad to happen to you or anyone. Funny how you missed that part and just want to drag it on. I made a vain attempt at apoligizing once. I did it twice, and I am done.



Lol, I honestly don't remember why I was even angry in the first place. Hi, I'm KelJu, and I am bipolar!


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Lol, I honestly don't remember why I was even angry in the first place. Hi, I'm KelJu, and I am bipolar!



It's all fine. I'm sure I did come off as rude for not having that much interaction with you on this forum before in the first place, which is why I tried to initially say something. 

I will admit when I am wrong about something, and that happens a lot.


No worries.


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## REDDOG309 (Sep 29, 2010)

suckmuscle is getting exactly what he wants. hes pitting alot of nice people against alot other nice people.  don't bang on each other, bang on him


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## maniclion (Sep 29, 2010)

REDDOG309 said:


> suckmuscle is getting exactly what he wants. hes pitting alot of nice people against alot other nice people.  don't bang on each other, bang on him


Dude get with the program, everyone is sitting around the thread holding hands and singing Kumbaya or Pass the Dutchie on the left hand side now....


----------



## REDDOG309 (Sep 29, 2010)

"I don't wish bad things on other people, but fuck you and same to you"  better?


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

REDDOG309 said:


> "I don't wish bad things on other people, but fuck you and same to you"  better?



It don't matter. I think we pretty much laid it to rest.


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## REDDOG309 (Sep 29, 2010)

Yeah i know, that was a copy and paste from one of kelju's posts. it was either that or sit back and sing kumbaya


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

REDDOG309 said:


> Yeah i know, that was a copy and paste from one of kelju's posts. it was either that or sit back and sing kumbaya



I vote neither...


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## maniclion (Sep 29, 2010)

REDDOG309 said:


> Yeah i know, that was a copy and paste from one of kelju's posts. it was either that or sit back and sing kumbaya


We can sing pass the kutchie on the Left Hand Side...






YouTube Video


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## SYN (Sep 29, 2010)

can't we all just smoke a bong?


----------



## SYN (Sep 29, 2010)

maniclion said:


> We can sing pass the kutchie on the Left Hand Side...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Shit....I repped u for the wrong post.


----------



## REDDOG309 (Sep 29, 2010)




----------



## REDDOG309 (Sep 29, 2010)

maniclion said:


> We can sing pass the kutchie on the Left Hand Side...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks i was trying to get kumbaya from utube but i'm a half a tard.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

SYN said:


> can't we all just smoke a bong?



I actually have not smoked weed in a l-o-n-g time, but if someone set a bong in front of me right now I don't think I could refuse.


----------



## REDDOG309 (Sep 29, 2010)

thats a lot nicer than argueing about pedofile priest. pass a bong and listen to pass the kutchie to the left.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

REDDOG309 said:


> thats a lot nicer than argueing about pedofile priest. pass a bong and listen to pass the kutchie to the left.



W3rd


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## maniclion (Sep 29, 2010)

I got some fresh soaked in hashtor oil


----------



## SYN (Sep 29, 2010)

vortrit said:


> I actually have not smoked weed in a l-o-n-g time, but if someone set a bong in front of me right now I don't think I could refuse.



I could totally go for a bong right now.  Our dog decided to investigate a skunk in my friends backyard.  The skunk smell doesn't really bother me (it's like strong onions and garlic) but giving a dog who hates baths a bath in tomato sauce is effing retardedx12


----------



## vortrit (Sep 30, 2010)

SYN said:


> I could totally go for a bong right now.  Our dog decided to investigate a skunk in my friends backyard.  The skunk smell doesn't really bother me (it's like strong onions and garlic) but giving a dog who hates baths a bath in tomato sauce is effing retardedx12



Sounds like a sexy time...


----------



## SYN (Sep 30, 2010)

High court looks at military funeral protests - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times


"Eleven-hundred miles away, in Topeka, Kan., the Rev. Fred Phelps and other family members who make up most of the Westboro Baptist Church decided that Snyder's funeral at a Catholic church in Westminster, Md., would be their next stop.

Phelps and his small band of followers have picketed many military funerals in their quest to draw attention to their incendiary view that U.S. deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq are God's punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.

They showed up with the usual signs, including "Thank God for dead soldiers," ''You're Going to Hell," ''God Hates the USA/Thank God for 9/11," and one that combined the U.S. Marine Corps motto, Semper Fi, with a slur against gay men."


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 30, 2010)

SYN said:


> High court looks at military funeral protests - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times
> 
> 
> "Eleven-hundred miles away, in Topeka, Kan., the Rev. Fred Phelps and other family members who make up most of the Westboro Baptist Church decided that Snyder's funeral at a Catholic church in Westminster, Md., would be their next stop.
> ...


sounds like something big smoothy would do.


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## DaMayor (Sep 30, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> sounds like something big smoothy would do.



Only if the soldier was Mormon.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 30, 2010)

DaMayor said:


> Only if the soldier was Mormon.



hahahahah. true


----------



## SYN (Sep 30, 2010)

YouTube Video











Kind of interesting. Does anybody know what it's from?


----------



## DaMayor (Sep 30, 2010)

SYN said:


> Kind of interesting. Does anybody know what it's from?



I remember seeing this on Nova, I believe.


----------



## Little Wing (Sep 30, 2010)

SYN said:


> High court looks at military funeral protests - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times
> 
> 
> "Eleven-hundred miles away, in Topeka, Kan., the Rev. Fred Phelps and other family members who make up most of the Westboro Baptist Church decided that Snyder's funeral at a Catholic church in Westminster, Md., would be their next stop.
> ...



this makes me feel so bad for the families i want to cry. i seriously wish horrible things on people who protest at a soldier's funeral. cunts.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 30, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> this makes me feel so bad for the families i want to cry. i seriously wish horrible things on people who protest at a soldier's funeral. cunts.



That is very messed up.


----------



## bmw (Sep 30, 2010)




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## bmw (Sep 30, 2010)

lol.  As has been said here, I don't care if someone is religious, as long as they aren't trying to force it on others or hurting anyone.

But I still lol @ funny pics of Gee-zus.


----------



## DaMayor (Sep 30, 2010)




----------



## bmw (Sep 30, 2010)

dude...I could post lawlz for days in a Jesus lolz pics thread...


----------



## REDDOG309 (Sep 30, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> this makes me feel so bad for the families i want to cry. i seriously wish horrible things on people who protest at a soldier's funeral. cunts.



i completely agree, these kids are following orders, not making them. and dyeing for it. thier parents must want to go off on these a-holes.


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## maniclion (Sep 30, 2010)

SYN said:


> High court looks at military funeral protests - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times
> 
> 
> "Eleven-hundred miles away, in Topeka, Kan., the Rev. Fred Phelps and other family members who make up most of the Westboro Baptist Church decided that Snyder's funeral at a Catholic church in Westminster, Md., would be their next stop.
> ...


Even your hardcore peaceniks have better sense than to violate the sacred right of a funeral...  They let prisoners out to attend funerals, you know who comes to mind when I think of disturbing a funeral, gangs and bikers they are the only other group of individuals who have no decency about funerals, they will set off car bombs and do drive-bys at rival gangs funerals....


----------



## REDDOG309 (Sep 30, 2010)

True about bikers, but i have seen at these soldiers funerals, theres a group of ex vet bikers that come to the funerals to help counter the assholes protesting.


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## maniclion (Sep 30, 2010)

REDDOG309 said:


> True about bikers, but i have seen at these soldiers funerals, theres a group of ex vet bikers that come to the funerals to help counter the assholes protesting.


I'm talking about your criminal biker "Clubs" not your over the hill living out their boyhood dreams so I bought a Harley, stopped shaving, only wear black and suddenly developed an attitude after bowing before the man for 30+ years...no we are talking miscreants who have been in and out of the system for their whole lives and have a chip on their shoulder about every little thing....


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## REDDOG309 (Sep 30, 2010)

i was just saying they come to help out at these funerals cause thier all vets and they been there. living in philly, i know about the 1%ers too. there are three clubs fighting for territory here and the good old italian boys who like to shoot each other in the streets. they been fighting over the meth, the hos and the protection for years.


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## jmorrison (Sep 30, 2010)

maniclion said:


> Even your hardcore peaceniks have better sense than to violate the sacred right of a funeral...  They let prisoners out to attend funerals, you know who comes to mind when I think of disturbing a funeral, gangs and bikers they are the only other group of individuals who have no decency about funerals, they will set off car bombs and do drive-bys at rival gangs funerals....



This may take the cake for the stupidest post in the entire thread.

Bikers?  Huh?  Bikers are some of the nicer people you will meet.  We go on charity poker runs, donate our time and energy to the community, go to funerals like this to ensure that the families are disturbed as little as possible.  You think that the only 2 types of people with Harleys are either criminals or over the hill wanna-bes?  You need to get out more.  Or who knows, maybe actually get some real experience with something before mindlessly insulting them.


----------



## maniclion (Sep 30, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> This may take the cake for the stupidest post in the entire thread.
> 
> Bikers?  Huh?  Bikers are some of the nicer people you will meet.  We go on charity poker runs, donate our time and energy to the community, go to funerals like this to ensure that the families are disturbed as little as possible.  You think that the only 2 types of people with Harleys are either criminals or over the hill wanna-bes?  You need to get out more.  Or who knows, maybe actually get some real experience with something before mindlessly insulting them.



My grandfather was a biker from the late 40's - early 50's all the way until his death in 2004, he worked on an assembly line at Ford until retirement with his tattoos and rode his bike anytime he could he earned his biker status by being one his whole life and not becoming a poser like the "motorcycle enthusiasts" who only ride on the weekends, I grew up riding bikes, I wouldn't consider myself a biker just because I bought a Harley and a leather jacket....Bikers live eat and breath the lifestyle, even the ones who aren't in criminal organizations...


----------



## SYN (Sep 30, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> This may take the cake for the stupidest post in the entire thread.
> 
> Bikers?  Huh?  Bikers are some of the nicer people you will meet.  We go on charity poker runs, donate our time and energy to the community, go to funerals like this to ensure that the families are disturbed as little as possible.  You think that the only 2 types of people with Harleys are either criminals or over the hill wanna-bes?  You need to get out more. * Or who knows, maybe actually get some real experience with something before mindlessly insulting them.*



Manic is probably the last person on here who would condemn and entire group of people for the actions of few, and I find it very tasteless that you've shit your pants twice in this thread because of your own lack of reading comprehension.  

The reason most motorcycle gangs have badges on their jackets saying '1%' is because they're a minority in the biker community. They know it, and so does everybody else.   Every biker I've ever known has been a participant in many toy runs, charity runs etc, but they definitely weren't riding around in Polos on a glitter flaked purple bikes like a bunch of goodie two shoes pussies. 






YouTube Video
















YouTube Video











Bikers wouldn't be saving or protecting shit if they weren't totally bad ass on some level.




And btw, it's a well known fact that many biker gangs participate in charity events so they can make themselves look good.


----------



## jmorrison (Sep 30, 2010)

maniclion said:


> My grandfather was a biker from the late 40's - early 50's all the way until his death in 2004, he worked on an assembly line at Ford until retirement with his tattoos and rode his bike anytime he could he earned his biker status by being one his whole life and not becoming a poser like the "motorcycle enthusiasts" who only ride on the weekends, I grew up riding bikes, I wouldn't consider myself a biker just because I bought a Harley and a leather jacket....Bikers live eat and breath the lifestyle, even the ones who aren't in criminal organizations...



I don't get your point here.  

You have a pretty narrow definition of "biker".  It seems to be "criminal", or someone that has been riding 50+ years.  If you don't fit into one of those 2 areas you are some sort of yuppie.

I put over 5,000 miles down this last summer, without doing any tours, and working 3 weeks on 3 weeks off.  I participate in charity events, I ride daily, (unless it is raining.  I may be hardcore, but I also own a car), and I am neither old, nor some middle aged dork with a penchant for leather.  I ride because I like to ride, I like the people that ride, and I like to be involved with the biking world.

@Syn.  Really?  Negging me?  You need to grow up.  I won't even respond in kind.  Look at my rep points.  You are now the second person that has ever negged me.  I try to be helpful, and contribute a lot to this board.  You are just a chubby little twat with daddy issues.  Neg me if you want, the only information I failed to "process" is that it was Manic that made the post.  He changed his pic, and I wouldn't have been so harsh if I had realized it was him, because I know his love for bikes.


----------



## jmorrison (Sep 30, 2010)

SYN said:


> I find it very tasteless that you've shit your pants twice in this thread because of your own lack of reading comprehension.



I would like to see where I have lacked reading comprehension.  There isn't one thing in this thread that I have failed to understand.  At least Sox stood by what he said, you are the chickenshit that called religious people "retarded" in a PM and then backpeddled in public, editing your post 9 times.  I think you suffer from a lack of common sense.

Grow up.


----------



## SYN (Sep 30, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> I don't get your point here.
> 
> You have a pretty narrow definition of "biker".  It seems to be "criminal", or someone that has been riding 50+ years.  If you don't fit into one of those 2 areas you are some sort of yuppie.
> 
> *I put over 5,000 miles down this last summer, without doing any tours, and working 3 weeks on 3 weeks off.  I participate in charity events, I ride daily, (unless it is raining.  I may be hardcore, but I also own a car), and I am neither old, nor some middle aged dork with a penchant for leather.  I ride because I like to ride, I like the people that ride, and I like to be involved with the biking world.*



You're obviously not part of the group he's referring too then.  I know the kind of people he's talking about, and I've never seen one of them go to a charity run, and they usually end up selling their bikes within a year or two of getting them and letting them sit in their garage gathering dust.  

What kind of bike you ride?  I'd like to learn how to ride one but putting me on anything that I have to shift is just a baaaaad idea, and I don't know anyone with an automatic bike.  Do they even make them, other than dirt bikes? 



jmorrison said:


> @Syn.  Really?  Negging me?  You need to grow up.  I won't even respond in kind.  Look at my rep points.  You are now the second person that has ever negged me.  I try to be helpful, and contribute a lot to this board.  You are just a chubby little twat with daddy issues.  Neg me if you want, *the only information I failed to "process" is that it was Manic that made the post.  He changed his pic, and I wouldn't have been so harsh if I had realized it was him, because I know his love for bikes.*



Take it easy, they're just silly forum points.  I wouldn't have negged you or probably even said anything if it hadn't been manic you were yelling at.  I'm sorry, but I have a lot of respect for him, and get a little pissed when someone pokes him with a stick    I don't recognize people's posts when they change their avatars either but I don't go around attacking people because I thought they were someone else.  THAT is juvenile.  So is being an insulting little penis leach.


----------



## SYN (Sep 30, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> I would like to see where I have lacked reading comprehension.  There isn't one thing in this thread that I have failed to understand.  At least Sox stood by what he said, you are the chickenshit that called religious people "retarded" in a PM and then backpeddled in public, editing your post 9 times.  I think you suffer from a lack of common sense.
> 
> Grow up.



 


That issue was over two pages ago, and I said everything I needed to say about it then, but judging by this post you didn't comprehend any of that either.   

And if anyone should be upset about the pm I sent to sox(before he made an ass of himself) it would be bio-chem.  Him and I got into a pretty big spat about religion on here once and I'm pretty sure he knows I don't think he's retarded for being religious.


----------



## jmorrison (Sep 30, 2010)

I like Manic too, and I sincerely wouldn't have been that harsh.  I still would have argued, but in a much more civil way.

I ride a Harley heritage.  

If you are thinking of getting one, jump into it.  I got my girl a sporty last year, and she had no idea how to clutch, and only weighs 96lbs.  I taught her to ride in the back yard.  You can pick up a nice sporty really cheap, especially if you wait till winter.  I picked hers up for 3800.00 and it is completely custom.  Paint/rear end/licence plate bracket, etc.  I get tired of hearing how much prettier her bike is than mine lol.  You can't go wrong.  Buy one in the winter, and if you dont like it, sell it in the summer and make profit off of it.


----------



## SYN (Sep 30, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> I like Manic too, and I sincerely wouldn't have been that harsh.  I still would have argued, but in a much more civil way.
> 
> I ride a Harley heritage.
> 
> If you are thinking of getting one, jump into it.  I got my girl a sporty last year, and she had no idea how to clutch, and only weighs 96lbs.  I taught her to ride in the back yard.  You can pick up a nice sporty really cheap, especially if you wait till winter.  I picked hers up for 3800.00 and it is completely custom.  Paint/rear end/licence plate bracket, etc.  I get tired of hearing how much prettier her bike is than mine lol.  You can't go wrong.  Buy one in the winter, and if you dont like it, sell it in the summer and make profit off of it.



No, I really, *really* can't drive anything I have to shift.  I've had a couple people - who've taught a lot of people with absolutely no clue how to drive a standard anything - try to teach me.  I've tried learning in a jeep, a samurai, a tracker, a 3 wheeler, and some crappy motorcycle that I couldn't even really hold up by myself.  No matter what it is or how long I stick with it I either can't start it, or can't shift it without starting it.    My biggest problem is not knowing when to shift.  Todd says something about listening and feeling for when the motor sounds boggy to get a feel for when I need to shift but I have no idea what he's talking about. I can't concentrate on stuff like that while I'm avoiding trees.  

There are a couple places around here that sells little me sized dirt bikes (idk what brank or size I was looking at) that come in automatic.  I'd like to get one of those next summer.


----------



## maniclion (Sep 30, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> I like Manic too, and I sincerely wouldn't have been that harsh.  I still would have argued, but in a much more civil way.
> 
> I ride a Harley heritage.
> 
> If you are thinking of getting one, jump into it.  I got my girl a sporty last year, and she had no idea how to clutch, and only weighs 96lbs.  I taught her to ride in the back yard.  You can pick up a nice sporty really cheap, especially if you wait till winter.  I picked hers up for 3800.00 and it is completely custom.  Paint/rear end/licence plate bracket, etc.  I get tired of hearing how much prettier her bike is than mine lol.  You can't go wrong.  Buy one in the winter, and if you dont like it, sell it in the summer and make profit off of it.



All I'm saying is I hate office execs and others like them who kiss ass all day and then hop on a "hog" and play dress up so they can feel like a bad ass for once in their life.


If you ride then ride on, but don't try to make yourself look like the outlaw that you're not that's all I'm saying....I used to rent Harley along with other stuff and had to deal with my share of guys who suddenly want to be the Eazy Rider they probably looked down upon during the 60's and 70's...


----------



## jmorrison (Sep 30, 2010)

Another thing to try is a motorcycle class.  Harley offers one called "Riders Edge".  Can you ride a bicycle?  (not smart a smart ass question, a lot of people cant).  If so, they can teach you.  These guys make a living teaching women how to ride.  The occasional guy too, but mainly women.  It is usually a thursday, saturday and sunday for around 250-300 bucks.  Very small investment to aquire a lifelong skill.  There are a few hours of classroom work, and then the rest is done on a bike.  Almost all of the class is focused on clutch control and slow speed maneuvering, which is the hardset part of riding.  Anyone can run a bike over 25mph, but figure 8's at 2mph is a lot harder!

They provide the bikes and everything.  All you need is a helmet and certain clothing requirements.  

If you google "Motorcycle Instruction" around your area you will probably find one pretty easily.  Harley is of course more expensive, and I have seen similiar classes go for about 150-200 bucks.

I have sent a lot of buddies wives through there, some of whom I wouldn't trust to ride my lawn mower, and every single one of them can ride a bike now.  If it is something you think you would enjoy, you are cheating yourself by not giving it a go!


----------



## jmorrison (Sep 30, 2010)

maniclion said:


> All I'm saying is I hate office execs and others like them who kiss ass all day and then hop on a "hog" and play dress up so they can feel like a bad ass for once in their life.
> 
> 
> If you ride then ride on, but don't try to make yourself look like the outlaw that you're not that's all I'm saying....I used to rent Harley along with other stuff and had to deal with my share of guys who suddenly want to be the Eazy Rider they probably looked down upon during the 60's and 70's...




I know what you mean lol.  Most of my family rides, and one of my uncles finally jumped into it in his late forties.  He is a well dressed nice guy with a pretty/classy wife.  So he rides over to my house to meet up with us to go for a ride, and I swear they were wearing 50lbs of dead cow mid-summer.  Bandana's, boots, scowl, all of it.  I doubt he OWNED a leather jacket before he got the bike, and he was wearing friggin leather pants.  Was really comical.  He still catches hell for it.


----------



## Du (Sep 30, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> Another thing to try is a motorcycle class.  Harley offers one called "Riders Edge".  Can you ride a bicycle?  (not smart a smart ass question, a lot of people cant).  If so, they can teach you.  These guys make a living teaching women how to ride.  The occasional guy too, but mainly women.  It is usually a thursday, saturday and sunday for around 250-300 bucks.  Very small investment to aquire a lifelong skill.  There are a few hours of classroom work, and then the rest is done on a bike.  Almost all of the class is focused on clutch control and slow speed maneuvering, which is the hardset part of riding.  Anyone can run a bike over 25mph, but figure 8's at 2mph is a lot harder!
> 
> They provide the bikes and everything.  All you need is a helmet and certain clothing requirements.
> 
> ...




I did the MSF Course years ago; took it to waive the practical exam in CT. I would never, ever recommend any new riders start riding without taking the course. I could honestly tell you, it has saved my life a few times. 

That's what I'd suggest. It's an awesome format, makes a ton of sense, and you learn a ton. They offer them everywhere, especially at local community colleges. Mine was 3hrs on a Thursday night, 6-7 hours on Saturday, and same the next week.

I like how a religion thread shifted to bikes. Good stuff.


----------



## bmw (Sep 30, 2010)

I used to bang a chick that had a little sportster.  Her dad was a biker, raised hell with his buddies back in the day when he was a younger man, knocked a lady up, had a kid, took his kid (the chick I was banging) on his bike when she was just barely old enough to hold on.  Of course he matured a little bit when he got older, but he was still kind of crazy.  Passed that shit on to his daughter too, cuz that bish was crazy too!

she also had a little mercedes benz c230 kompressor sport sedan.  Red with a 5 speed manual (rare).  That little thing was fun to drive.

Wait, wut?


----------



## LAM (Oct 1, 2010)

Rome was civilized for several hundred years before Christianity and only decades after.  The Greeks worshiped the Gods on Olympus and the Titans and gave us democracy and writing.  While the Egyptians were building great pyramids and engineering feats that could barely be performed today next door the Israelites were walking around reciting the Torah.  some have probably never thought about what Judeo–Christianity has really brought to society and the world...no extremely Judeo–Christian society has ever prospered what have the Hebrews or Israeli's ever done?  How many years after Christianity hit it Europe until it entered the Dark Ages?


----------



## troubador (Oct 1, 2010)

LAM said:


> no extremely Judeo???Christian society has ever prospered what have the Hebrews or Israeli's ever done?



It interesting to see how intellectual atheists from the past differ so greatly from the pop culture atheist of today. If it wasn't obvious, the Jews have done pretty well for themselves despite people trying to constantly exterminate them. 

"Incidentally, the whole problem of the Jews exists only within national states, inasmuch as their energy and higher intelligence, their capital of spirit and will, which accumulated from generation to generation in the long school of their suffering, must predominate to a degree that awakens envy and hatred; and so, in the literature of nearly all present-day nations (and, in fact, in proportion to their renewed nationalistic behavior), there is an increase in the literary misconduct that leads the Jews to the slaughterhouse, as scapegoats for every possible public and private misfortune.
[to Jews, humanity] owe the noblest human being (Christ), the purest philosopher (Spinoza), the mightiest book, and the most effective moral code in the world. Furthermore, in the darkest medieval times, when the Asiatic cloud had settled heavily over Europe, it was the Jewish freethinkers, scholars, and doctors, who, under the harshest personal pressure, held fast to the banner of enlightenment and intellectual independence, and defended Europe against Asia; we owe to their efforts not least, that a more natural, rational, and in any event unmythical explanation of the world could finally triumph again, and that the ring of culture which now links us to the enlightenment of Greco-Roman antiquity, remained unbroken. If Christianity did everything possible to orientalize the Occident, then Judaism helped substantially to occidentalize it again and again, which, in a certain sense, is to say that it made Europe's history and task into a continuation of the Greek." ~ Nietzsche 

Again if it wasn't obvious, the Reformation is was what lead to the democratization of Europe and the U.S.


"Now his holiest books have been trampled upon
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health
He???s the neighborhood bully

What???s anybody indebted to him for?
Nothin???, they say. He just likes to cause war
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed
He???s the neighborhood bully" ~ Dylan


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## vortrit (Oct 1, 2010)

YouTube Video


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## LAM (Oct 1, 2010)

troubador said:


> If it wasn't obvious, the Jews have done pretty well for themselves despite people trying to constantly exterminate them.



doing well as compared to?


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## troubador (Oct 1, 2010)

LAM said:


> doing well as compared to?



Israel has a democracy, a high GDP per capita and a strong military. Certainly a better place to live than most of its surrounding countries. I hope you don't really think the predominately Jewish society of Israel hasn't prospered.


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## soxmuscle (Oct 1, 2010)

Yay!  Interwebs is back up at this shitty apartment complex I live it!


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## soxmuscle (Oct 1, 2010)

REDDOG309 said:


> suckmuscle is getting exactly what he wants. hes pitting alot of nice people against alot other nice people.  don't bang on each other, bang on him



Haha - suckmuscle.. haha... you're such an unoriginal jackass.

Yes, Little Wing, come bang me! fuck my brains out!


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## soxmuscle (Oct 1, 2010)

jmorrison,

I apologize for using you to distract me from my studying.  I don't care about religion, don't care that you do care about religion, and in general, was just arguing for the sake of arguing.

I wish you and your son the best of luck moving forward.


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## MyK (Oct 1, 2010)




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## REDDOG309 (Oct 1, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> Haha - suckmuscle.. haha... you're such an unoriginal jackass.
> 
> Yes, Little Wing, come bang me! fuck my brains out!


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## LAM (Oct 1, 2010)

troubador said:


> It interesting to see how intellectual atheists from the past differ so greatly from the pop culture atheist of today.



probably the same as how the intellectual Christian from the past differs from the pop culture Christian of today...


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## maniclion (Oct 1, 2010)

troubador said:


> It interesting to see how intellectual atheists from the past differ so greatly from the pop culture atheist of today. If it wasn't obvious, the Jews have done pretty well for themselves despite people trying to constantly exterminate them.


Pop atheist?  Please explain, because in my opinion that's an oxymoron since most of the atheists I know shun pop culture anything and usually like to be their own person, they don't care what other people think of what they like nor believe...


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## LAM (Oct 1, 2010)

troubador said:


> Israel has a democracy, a high GDP per capita and a strong military.



seems odd that a country and people under the protection of "God" would have to pay the USA for protection and would have better than an average economy.

like I said, besides bringing Christianity to the world what has Israel or the Hebrews ever done for the world as a society?  democracy, art, wiring, great engineering feats, song, dance, etc.  was all done long before Christianity.   ...what has it brought to the table? The 10 Commandments? Hammurabi did it first in 1700 BCE.  How exactly are things better anywhere because of it?  why is it that extremely religious countries don't really do anything? 

I am not anti-Semitic in any way shape or form I find is disgusted the way the Jews have been persecuted considering none of these religions is really better than the other.


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## jmorrison (Oct 1, 2010)

maniclion said:


> Pop atheist?  Please explain, because in my opinion that's an oxymoron since most of the atheists I know shun pop culture anything and usually like to be their own person, they don't care what other people think of what they like nor believe...




I semi disagree Manic.  One of my least favorite people is the psuedo intellectual.  The majority that I have met are almost comically predicatable.  Somewhat well read, shuns anything and everything mainstream, dismisses anything enjoyed by the majority as garbage, looks down on the "sheep" even though they are simply a different colored sheep, athiest (not that all athiests are psuedo-intellectuals, but almost to a man a psuedo-intellectual will be athiest), and claim that they wish to be their own person, but in reality are just another type of elitist enjoying a false sense of superiority.

This isnt directed at you in the slightest, I am well aware that you are genuinely your own person, just disagreeing about most athiests being some sort of enlighted individualist.  For the most part, the ones I have met are only self-delusioned psuedo-intellectuals that enjoy passing judgement on the masses.


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## Dark Geared God (Oct 1, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> I semi disagree Manic. One of my least favorite people is the psuedo intellectual. The majority that I have met are almost comically predicatable. Somewhat well read, shuns anything and everything mainstream, dismisses anything enjoyed by the majority as garbage, looks down on the "sheep" even though they are simply a different colored sheep, athiest (not that all athiests are psuedo-intellectuals, but almost to a man a psuedo-intellectual will be athiest), and claim that they wish to be their own person, but in reality are just another type of elitist enjoying a false sense of superiority.
> 
> This isnt directed at you in the slightest, I am well aware that you are genuinely your own person, just disagreeing about most athiests being some sort of enlighted individualist. For the most part, the ones I have met are only self-delusioned psuedo-intellectuals that enjoy passing judgement on the masses.


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## troubador (Oct 1, 2010)

maniclion said:


> Pop atheist?  Please explain, because in my opinion that's an oxymoron since most of the atheists I know shun pop culture anything and usually like to be their own person, they don't care what other people think of what they like nor believe...



A simple example would be Nietzsche's views versus most modern atheists. It seems conservative atheists are quite rare now despite liberalism and atheism having nothing inherently in common. Now you have people like Hitchens (a pop culture figure himself) promoting a form of atheism which simply tacks on the morality and general approbations of the everyman. 
The pop culture atheist derives his or her knowledge of atheism from the superficial sources of magazine articles, atheist blogs, sensational documentaries, and the latest best seller. For instance if you watch some of those Hitchens and Dawkins debates online you see them discuss morality and pop culture atheists seem to eat that stuff up but many of the arguments they produce are not brilliantly innovative but rather older than Christianity itself. They avoid using the already existing common philosophical terminology for these concepts because they want a product that seems edgy and doesn't promote further investigation. The pop culture atheist speaks of scientific fact and couldn't convert lbf/ft3 to g/ml if their life depended on it. In other words, pop culture atheism is simply a form of atheism made to appeal to the masses. It of course has worked well.


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## troubador (Oct 2, 2010)

LAM said:


> like I said, besides bringing Christianity to the world what has Israel or the Hebrews ever done for the world as a society?  democracy, art, wiring, great engineering feats, song, dance, etc.  was all done long before Christianity.   ...what has it brought to the table? The 10 Commandments? Hammurabi did it first in 1700 BCE.  How exactly are things better anywhere because of it?



If you're asking what some alternate reality void of Israel or Christianity would be like, I don't know. If you are looking for inventions or art by Jewish people then you can google that for yourself. Here's the first one I found. Modern Israeli Inventions


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## REDDOG309 (Oct 2, 2010)

Say three hail mary's and two our fathers and all will be forgiven


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## KelJu (Oct 2, 2010)

LAM said:


> seems odd that a country and people under the protection of "God" would have to pay the USA for protection and would have better than an average economy.
> 
> like I said, besides bringing Christianity to the world what has Israel or the Hebrews ever done for the world as a society?  democracy, art, wiring, great engineering feats, song, dance, etc.  was all done long before Christianity.   ...what has it brought to the table? The 10 Commandments? Hammurabi did it first in 1700 BCE.  How exactly are things better anywhere because of it?  why is it that extremely religious countries don't really do anything?
> 
> I am not anti-Semitic in any way shape or form I find is disgusted the way the Jews have been persecuted considering none of these religions is really better than the other.




Actually, some of the most, if not the most, brilliant scientist in human history have been Jewish. I'm not saying Judaism was the driving force, but Jews as a society or ethnicity kick ass and take names when it comes to science. Also, the Jews have showed amazing prowess in art, music, cinema, comedy, ect.


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## Dark Geared God (Oct 2, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Actually, some of the most, if not the most, brilliant scientist in human history have been Jewish. I'm not saying Judaism was the driving force, but Jews as a society or ethnicity kick ass and take names when it comes to science. Also, the Jews have showed amazing prowess in art, music, cinema, comedy, ect.


 and money with their jew gold


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## MDR (Oct 2, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> I semi disagree Manic.  One of my least favorite people is the psuedo intellectual.  The majority that I have met are almost comically predicatable.  Somewhat well read, shuns anything and everything mainstream, dismisses anything enjoyed by the majority as garbage, looks down on the "sheep" even though they are simply a different colored sheep, athiest (not that all athiests are psuedo-intellectuals, but almost to a man a psuedo-intellectual will be athiest), and claim that they wish to be their own person, but in reality are just another type of elitist enjoying a false sense of superiority.
> 
> This isnt directed at you in the slightest, I am well aware that you are genuinely your own person, just disagreeing about most athiests being some sort of enlighted individualist.  For the most part, the ones I have met are only self-delusioned psuedo-intellectuals that enjoy passing judgement on the masses.



I think you are passing judgment and lumping an entire group of people into a convenient mold.  If this has truly been your experience, that is unfortunate.  I agree with Manic in that most folks I know who are Atheist like myself see pop culture as little more that amusing silliness, and see only the value in the humor of it, if at all.  Pseudo-Intellectuals are very irritating, and in my experience, very few of my card-carrying Atheistic brethren have much use for such poseurs. I would call the folks you mention pseudo-atheist, because most of this ilk are not capable of thinking for themselves in the least.


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## maniclion (Oct 2, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> I semi disagree Manic.  One of my least favorite people is the psuedo intellectual.  The majority that I have met are almost comically predicatable.  Somewhat well read, shuns anything and everything mainstream, dismisses anything enjoyed by the majority as garbage, looks down on the "sheep" even though they are simply a different colored sheep, athiest (not that all athiests are psuedo-intellectuals, but almost to a man a psuedo-intellectual will be athiest), and claim that they wish to be their own person, but in reality are just another type of elitist enjoying a false sense of superiority.
> 
> This isnt directed at you in the slightest, I am well aware that you are genuinely your own person, just disagreeing about most athiests being some sort of enlighted individualist.  For the most part, the ones I have met are only self-delusioned psuedo-intellectuals that enjoy passing judgement on the masses.


I know the type, usually they've only just discovered Philosophy For Dummies at the book store and are in the beginning stages of figuring out that they can learn stuff outside of school, the type who claim they never watch TV which tells me they haven't yet grasped the concept of not to discard any method of learning and TV can be an invaluable tool also the human brain needs some mindless entertainment.  At the start they think that everyone who hasn't read the same things they have are "sheeple".  I say just give them time at least they are trying....and I believe if people don't keep trying we will end up like that movie Idiocracy and thats why being open to all sources is important so you can reference stuff more people have likely seen or read before...


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## maniclion (Oct 2, 2010)

By the way I am not an atheist, I am an open minded spiritualist, maybe it's wishful thinking but I can't believe our universe or any other universes and dimensions could just pop up from nothing, I don't have any clue who, what nor if it may have been one god or several gods in a lab, for all we know it's some glob of ultra energy with no conciousness....and then you have to wonder well where did this god or these gods or that energy come from which comes back to matter/energy can neither be created nor destroyed.  On my best days I feel like the whole universe and us are god, a god of pure energy and the evolution of us growing more intelligent is this god who destroyed himself in the big bang slowly collecting back together and the more complex all the elements begin to combine into more advanced forms of matter the closer he gets to being whole again...thats why there is a universal mind and collective conciousness and why we keep pushing ourselves to become more advanced...


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## MDR (Oct 2, 2010)

maniclion said:


> I know the type, usually they've only just discovered Philosophy For Dummies at the book store and are in the beginning stages of figuring out that they can learn stuff outside of school, the type who claim they never watch TV which tells me they haven't yet grasped the concept of not to discard any method of learning and TV can be an invaluable tool also the human brain needs some mindless entertainment.  At the start they think that everyone who hasn't read the same things they have are "sheeple".  I say just give them time at least they are trying....and I believe if people don't keep trying we will end up like that movie Idiocracy and thats why being open to all sources is important so you can reference stuff more people have likely seen or read before...



Nicely put.  Learning experiences can come from the most unexpected sources.  Anyone who thinks they have all the answers just isn't paying attention.  New experience and being open to different kinds of people and their ideas is really the key to learning.  My own brother is religious, and much more conservative politically in comparison to me, but we have great conversations about politics and the world, and he often provides me with a lot of insight.  He is very bright and extremely well-read politically, as well as theologically.  I don't have to agree with him or anyone else to learn from their perspectives on life and living.


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## bio-chem (Oct 2, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Actually, some of the most, if not the most, brilliant scientist in human history have been Jewish. I'm not saying Judaism was the driving force, but Jews as a society or ethnicity kick ass and take names when it comes to science. Also, the Jews have showed amazing prowess in art, music, cinema, comedy, ect.


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## LAM (Oct 3, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Actually, some of the most, if not the most, brilliant scientist in human history have been Jewish. I'm not saying Judaism was the driving force, but Jews as a society or ethnicity kick ass and take names when it comes to science. Also, the Jews have showed amazing prowess in art, music, cinema, comedy, ect.



that's not what I meant at all..back in that era when many other civilizations where innovating and doing great things the Jews were basically walking around praying and doing nothing as compared to all the "heathens" like the Greeks, Egyptians, Romans, etc. It seems that those that waste most of their energies on "prayer" only never really accomplish much as a society.

One of my good friends out here in Vegas his name is Ori he's about 70+/- and he's an retired Israeli Army Captain (he was actually the Capt. youngest ever).   But we go shooting out in the desert every once and while and I pick his brain about all this stuff.  He tries to get me to become more religious even still trys to get me to go to temple with him...lol


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## SYN (Oct 9, 2010)

YouTube Video


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## vortrit (Oct 9, 2010)

Dark Geared God said:


> and money with their *jew* gold



Just make sure you keep an eye out for horns.


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## soxmuscle (Oct 9, 2010)

dear prudence...


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## Dark Geared God (Oct 9, 2010)

Huh?


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## BillHicksFan (Oct 12, 2010)

I find it strange that humans can discuss most matters using criticle thinking skills, intelligence and logic however when it come to speaking of our origins these traits simply fly out the window. Sure these skills are still used however they are generally used to make these fictional religious ideologies fit into our reality somehow and some people manage to do it well. 
Confusion is the only thing that allows humans to cling to these religious ideas with such conviction. Most scientists (and any thinking atheists) who are educated in this particular field are still baffled as to what we are a part of but they realise it's ok to say " I don't know but lets try to find out as much as we can." They don't refuse to believe in these ancient religions out of sheer denial, they know damn well that they are not true. 
Religions really do draw the conclusion first and then look for the evidence to support their claims.
IMO we should remove the emotional attachment to these strange beliefs, see them for what they really are and draw a new conclusion using the knowledge that we actually do know. 
In the meantime, if we don't blow ourselves up over these fictional gods, science and education will eventually conquer religion and superstition.


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## BillHicksFan (Oct 12, 2010)

YouTube Video


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## troubador (Oct 13, 2010)

BillHicksFan said:


> Religions really do draw the conclusion first and then look for the evidence to support their claims.



So do many scientists. I've already listed an example in this thread. 

Speaking of "intelligence and logic", you committed the fallacy of hypostatization(aka reification) in the above quote.


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## BillHicksFan (Oct 13, 2010)

troubador said:


> So do many scientists. I've already listed an example in this thread.
> 
> Speaking of "intelligence and logic", you committed the fallacy of hypostatization(aka reification) in the above quote.


 

If a scientist finds their conclusion first and then looks for evidence to support their claim then it is simply not good science and I'm sure that there are no shortage of bad scientists in the world.

Religions use this method time after time in one way or another.

Real science is not biast as it has no specific conclusion to favour and it only searches for the truth. I'm not claiming that there is no God but science has most certainly debunked the superstitous teachings that our ancestors once believed.
We can't just pick and choose what we want to believe from these ancient books that are considered by many to be the literal word of God, they are either right or they are wrong.


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## KelJu (Oct 13, 2010)

troubador said:


> So do many scientists. I've already listed an example in this thread.
> 
> Speaking of "intelligence and logic", you committed the fallacy of hypostatization(aka reification) in the above quote.



No, most scientist who are practicing accepted science frame the null hypothesis, and test for the opposite of what they want to see in the data. 

Also, you don't understand what hypostatization means.


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## troubador (Oct 13, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Also, you don't understand what hypostatization means.



I'm certainly aware of what it means. The idea of religion drawing conclusions could be a text book example. 

...Actually wiki even gives this example "Religion attempts to destroy our liberty and is therefore immoral." (attributes intention to religion)


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