# post workout shake



## Fitzy89 (Sep 25, 2010)

can someone help me?

So I am trying to find a good post strength training workout shake for women any ideas? Currently I use Jay Robb whey protein or Casein and I am just wondering if anyone has any good advice bc I have heard a bunch of different ideas and I am kind of all over the place here

Thanks!


----------



## Arra (Sep 25, 2010)

I'd recommend whey,  and of course a simple carb. Maybe if you don't want to take straight sugar (dextrose, also known as corn sugar), try white bread, a few servings of pretzels, or even jelly beans. Also, pop some extra Vitamin C or some R Lipoic Acid after your high GI meal. Those antioxidants should minimize inflammation from the high GI carb.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 25, 2010)

Whey Protein, fruit, dextrose.


----------



## gtbmed (Sep 25, 2010)

Chocolate milk


----------



## BillHicksFan (Sep 25, 2010)

As mentioned, for PWO you need a fast acting protein such as whey and some hi GI sugar to replenish glycogen stores asap.

I believe people over complicate the PWO nutrition, as long as you get enough fast acting protein and carbs you're G2G.


----------



## theCaptn' (Sep 25, 2010)

non-fat milk and whey isolate is g2g


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 26, 2010)

Save your money and eat a meal.


----------



## Marat (Sep 26, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> Save your money and eat a meal.



I second this response.


----------



## Fitzy89 (Sep 26, 2010)

thanks everyone!


----------



## braveand (Sep 26, 2010)

Fitzy89 said:


> whey protein or Casein..



First simple carb (after 0min) and then whey pro (after 30min) is all you need for your postwo.


----------



## 200+ (Sep 26, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> Save your money and eat a meal.



Whey is cheap


----------



## blergs. (Sep 26, 2010)

whey and some dextrose + some creatine would be nice.
I been using Onslaught-cinnamon bun flavor. but there about 5g of creatine per serving. so that depends on how you feel about that but i love the stuff.


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 26, 2010)

200+ said:


> Whey is cheap



But it isn't better, and you're going to have to eat anyways.


----------



## suprfast (Sep 26, 2010)

It is also boring.  Food is where my heart is.

I think everyone also gets too far into the bodybuilding motions and forgets we are regular humans. 

I do not always eat following my workouts and I am still gaining strength.  I doubt eating right after will turn me into Bruce Banner.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 26, 2010)

I've actually just been drinking chocolate milk after workouts. It's cheap and you can get it anywhere.


----------



## theCaptn' (Sep 26, 2010)

vortrit said:


> I've actually just been drinking chocolate milk after workouts. It's cheap and you can get it anywhere.


 
milk is underrated and overlooked IMO . . there's more to it than protein and carbs


----------



## suprfast (Sep 26, 2010)

Marquis du Gears said:


> milk is underrated and overlooked IMO . . there's more to it than protein and carbs



Not if you are lactose intolerant.  FUCK YOU STOMACH.  
Lactose free milk FTW though.  Chocolate milk is the best PW shake.


----------



## blergs. (Sep 27, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> But it isn't better, and you're going to have to eat anyways.



whey is a good addition.
ofcourse your gonna have to eat also thow.


----------



## BillHicksFan (Sep 27, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> But it isn't better, and you're going to have to eat anyways.


 
There's a 3 hour window period to take advantage of PWO, do you really eat two full meals during this time after every workout?

Personally, I have a shake at the gym and eat a PWO meal about 50-60 minutes later. 

Why do you think a solid meal would be better than a meal that is pre-digested?


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 27, 2010)

BillHicksFan said:


> There's a 3 hour window period to take advantage of PWO, do you really eat two full meals during this time after every workout?
> 
> Personally, I have a shake at the gym and eat a PWO meal about 50-60 minutes later.
> 
> Why do you think a solid meal would be better than a meal that is pre-digested?



Because the whole "anabolic window" is a crock of shit perpetuated by the supplement industry to make you and others believe that protein powder are necessary to make maximum gains. Sounds good on the internet or in some supplement study. However in real life i've never known anyone, including myself who has taken the PWO shake and seen any additional benefits from it. You want maximum muscle gains, then you need be on a high protein calorie excess diet, no protein supplements required. Your overall diet will dictate your muscle gains. The only thing protein supplements are good for is convenience.


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 27, 2010)

blergs. said:


> whey is a good addition.
> ofcourse your gonna have to eat also thow.



Whey is not going to make or break shit for muscle gains.


----------



## DaMayor (Sep 27, 2010)

You're over-complicating the issue....

Pabst Blue Ribbon and a snickers bar.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 27, 2010)

DaMayor said:


> You're over-complicating the issue....
> 
> Pabst Blue Ribbon and a snickers bar.



Finally an answer that makes sense!


----------



## 200+ (Sep 27, 2010)

chocolate milk sounds good


----------



## Marat (Sep 27, 2010)

Arra said:


> I'd recommend whey,  and of course a simple carb. Maybe if you don't want to take straight sugar (dextrose, also known as corn sugar), try white bread, a few servings of pretzels, or even jelly beans. Also, pop some extra Vitamin C or some R Lipoic Acid after your high GI meal. Those antioxidants should minimize inflammation from the high GI carb.





BillHicksFan said:


> As mentioned, for PWO you need a fast acting protein such as whey and some hi GI sugar to replenish glycogen stores asap.
> 
> I believe people over complicate the PWO nutrition, as long as you get enough fast acting protein and carbs you're G2G.





braveand said:


> First simple carb (after 0min) and then whey pro (after 30min) is all you need for your postwo.





BillHicksFan said:


> There's a 3 hour window period to take advantage of PWO, do you really eat two full meals during this time after every workout?
> 
> Personally, I have a shake at the gym and eat a PWO meal about 50-60 minutes later.



I think it's interesting how much effort is put into the relative minutiae of postworkout nutrition when that time can be spent going over something important like technique. 


Anything that is convenient in relation to one's schedule, fits into your macros, and fits into your budget is fine. Anything that fits in those three basic criteria is fine for nearly 100% of lifters. It can be a shake, chicken and rice and broccoli, or it can be chocolate milk. It doesn't matter. Just eat something.


----------



## suprfast (Sep 27, 2010)

Marat said:


> I think it's interesting how much effort is put into the relative minutiae of postworkout nutrition when that time can be spent going over something important like technique.
> 
> 
> Anything that is convenient in relation to one's schedule, fits into your macros, and fits into your budget is fine. Anything that fits in those three basic criteria is fine for nearly 100% of lifters. It can be a shake, chicken and rice and broccoli, or it can be chocolate milk. It doesn't matter. Just eat something.



I usually do not eat after my workouts because I take my son to school.  I know this is helping me lose weight because I have gone from 225 to 213 in a month and a half...

OR, It could be my 2300 calorie diet that I stick to.

Not to say this doesn't work at some degree of body building but people take it too far.  I see people mixing shakes in the middle of their workouts and carrying muscle and fitness magazines.  If the mags were correct we would have to eat a meal or shake every 12 seconds.


----------



## Marat (Sep 27, 2010)

suprfast said:


> I usually do not eat after my workouts because I take my son to school.  I know this is helping me lose weight because I have gone from 225 to 213 in a month and a half...
> 
> OR, It could be my 2300 calorie diet that I stick to.



Feel free to experiment by spending a month eating after you train while simultaneously keeping the 2300 calorie diet. It's, of course, an "n=1 experiment" but perhaps it's worth something. 

My hypothesis is that you're results will be the same either way.


----------



## BillHicksFan (Sep 27, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> Because the whole "anabolic window" is a crock of shit perpetuated by the supplement industry to make you and others believe that protein powder are necessary to make maximum gains. Sounds good on the internet or in some supplement study. However in real life i've never known anyone, including myself who has taken the PWO shake and seen any additional benefits from it. You want maximum muscle gains, then you need be on a high protein calorie excess diet, no protein supplements required. Your overall diet will dictate your muscle gains. The only thing protein supplements are good for is convenience.


 
Ouch, now you have me feeling like a dirty little sup whore. 

I realise many people believe that WPI is some kind of magic muscle formula when infact it is an inferior source of protein when compared to solid nutrition, it just makes sense to get a liquid form of fast acting protein and carbs asap after your workout followed by a good solid PWO meal but this is an old argument that will probably go on forever, there are valid points from both sides.

The supplement industry is full of empty promises however there is most definitely a place for powdered protein when used correctly and not simply relied upon. 

To be honest I believe Marat has made the most valid point in post #26 as it is often a case of the most practical way to meet your nutritional needs and everybody's routine and schedule are different.


----------



## suprfast (Sep 27, 2010)

Marat said:


> Feel free to experiment by spending a month eating after you train while simultaneously keeping the 2300 calorie diet. It's, of course, an "n=1 experiment" but perhaps it's worth something.
> 
> My hypothesis is that you're results will be the same either way.



Hard to express ones self as being facetious on the internettttttttts.  

I get a better pump when I have a camel pack loaded with protein shakes when I bench press.


----------



## Marat (Sep 27, 2010)

ah fuck, you got me. i should've known better.


----------



## suprfast (Sep 27, 2010)

BillHicksFan said:


> Ouch, now you have me feeling like a dirty little sup whore.
> 
> I realise many people believe that WPI is some magic muscle formula when infact it is an inferior source of protein when compared to solid nutrition, it just makes sense to get a liquid form of fast acting protein and carbs asap after your workout followed by a good solid PWO meal but this is an old argument that will probably go on forever, there are valid points from both sides.
> 
> ...



WPI is magical...or I should say WPC is magical.  When I take WPC the walls in the bathroom magically paint themselves.  When I take WPI I go about the day with a very calm stomach.  Both are magical feelings.  Lactose intolerance sucks


----------



## vortrit (Sep 27, 2010)

200+ said:


> chocolate milk sounds good




That is mainly what I use.


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 28, 2010)

BillHicksFan said:


> Ouch, now you have me feeling like a dirty little sup whore.


 
To be honest, you are being a sup whore. You obviously believe the sup companies "There's a 3 hour window period to take advantage of PWO" and yet i'm sure like everyone else i've known (including myself) you hope it works, because the results certainly don't speak for themselves.



BillHicksFan said:


> I realise many people believe that WPI is some kind of magic muscle formula when infact it is an inferior source of protein when compared to solid nutrition, *it just makes sense to get a liquid form of fast acting protein and carbs asap after your workout* followed by a good solid PWO mealbut this is an old argument that will probably go on forever, there are valid points from both sides.



I agree it seems logical. So then have your hypothesis. You repeatedly test it, never yields the results you expected. Logial conclusion, hypothesis was incorrect.



BillHicksFan said:


> The supplement industry is full of empty promises however there is most definitely a place for powdered protein when used correctly and not simply relied upon.



The only "correct" way to use it is for convenience. 




BillHicksFan said:


> To be honest I believe Marat has made the most valid point in post #26 *as it is often a case of the most practical way to meet your nutritional needs and everybody's routine and schedule are different*.



This has nothing to do with a 3 hour window and everything to do with convenience.


----------



## BillHicksFan (Sep 28, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> To be honest, you are being a sup whore. You obviously believe the sup companies "There's a 3 hour window period to take advantage of PWO" and yet i'm sure like everyone else i've known (including myself) you hope it works, because the results certainly don't speak for themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Dude, the " 3 hr window" is just another way of saying that; due to an intense workout you have put your body into a catabolic state therefore you need to return it to an anabolic state asap.

You seem to hold a grudge against supps for one reason or another however WPI has its place if used correctly. In stating that WPI is shit you are basically saying that milk is not a good source of protein. 

How can you test that a protein shake is inferior to a solid meal? If you worked out at home it may be wise to eat a solid meal immediately after a workout however most people train in a gym and it takes time to get home and make a meal, that's wasted time IMO. 

Really, it's impossible to draw an accurate conclusion unless you took two identical twins who ate the same meals, trained them exactly the same but gave only one a solid meal, ( after he drove though traffic to get home) the other a protein shake at the gym followed by a solid meal when he got home and recorded the results over a period of time.


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 28, 2010)

BillHicksFan said:


> Dude, the " 3 hr window" is just another way of saying that; due to an intense workout you have put your body into a catabolic state therefore you need to return it to an anabolic state asap.



Now you're creating a new definition of what you meant by 3 hour window. If all you meant was to return your body to an anabolic state, 


BillHicksFan said:


> There's a 3 hour window period to take advantage of PWO


then what's there to take advantage of?

Besides this new definition is likewise bullshit. You don't go into a catabolic state after you workout, maybe if you ran a marathon. You are either in a catabolic or anabolic state, post workout does not change that. You're *overall* diet dictates whether you're catabolic or anabolic.



BillHicksFan said:


> You seem to hold a grudge against supps for one reason or another however WPI has its place if used correctly. In stating that WPI is shit you are basically saying that milk is not a good source of protein.



This of course is also complete bullshit. What I said was there will be no difference in muscle gains if use a post workout shake or eat a meal. At no time did I say WPI was shit. Try reading my posts.




BillHicksFan said:


> How can you test that a protein shake is inferior to a solid meal? If you worked out at home it may be wise to eat a solid meal immediately after a workout however most people train in a gym and it takes time to get home and make a meal, that's wasted time IMO.
> 
> Really, it's impossible to draw an accurate conclusion unless you took two identical twins who ate the same meals, trained them exactly the same but gave only one a solid meal, ( after he drove though traffic to get home) the other a protein shake at the gym followed by a solid meal when he got home and recorded the results over a period of time.



Fuck me. Once again, I never said a protein shake is inferior to a solid meal. I said that a protein shake is not superior to a meal PWO. There's a fucking difference. Once again for clarity, having a PWO shake is not going to make better gains than having a PWO meal. How do you test? Test on yourself. Drop the PWO shake for a period, have a meal instead, keep your overall diet the same, see if it makes any noticeable changes in your gains. If you see no noticeable change then go back to the PWO shake and see what happens. See no noticeable changes again, you can pretty much conclude that there's no difference or the difference is negligible. Pretty simple.


----------



## gtbmed (Sep 28, 2010)

The point is, just eat the right macros daily and the timing won't matter.  Don't obfuscate things - just train, eat, and rest.  As long as those things are in order, you'll make progress.

People want to make this stuff complicated for some reason when in reality it's very simple.


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 28, 2010)

gtbmed said:


> The point is, just eat the right macros daily and the timing won't matter.  Don't obfuscate things - just train, eat, and rest.  As long as those things are in order, you'll make progress.
> 
> People want to make this stuff complicated for some reason when in reality it's very simple.



This really is the point. Your overall diet is what's important, not the timing.


----------



## Fitzy89 (Sep 28, 2010)

*wooooaaa*

Wow I did not think my question would result in such a response! O well I guess I will just have to experiment with different foods and such.. once again thanks guys!


----------



## BillHicksFan (Sep 28, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> Now you're creating a new definition of what you meant by 3 hour window. If all you meant was to return your body to an anabolic state,
> 
> then what's there to take advantage of?
> 
> ...


 
If I could be bothered multi quoting you I'd point out your contradictions but I can't so I'll let you be a difficult mfer.


----------



## BillHicksFan (Sep 28, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> This really is the point. Your overall diet is what's important, not the timing.


 
Nutrient timing is not important


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 28, 2010)

BillHicksFan said:


> If I could be bothered multi quoting you I'd point out your contradictions but I can't so I'll let you be a difficult mfer.



Nice cop-out.


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 28, 2010)

BillHicksFan said:


> Nutrient timing is not important



You're a true placebo head and i'm sure the supplement companies appreciate your business.


----------



## BillHicksFan (Sep 28, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> Nice cop-out.


 
Well this thread was created to get info on a post workout shake. I refuse to get into a shit slinging match with you over something so petty as comparing liquid protein to solid protein PWO.

If nutrient timing doesn't make any difference then theoretically you could eat just one big meal a day and still make the same gains, fuck it why not have it right before bed too? 

Lets just agree to disagree shall we?


----------



## Marat (Sep 28, 2010)

BillHicksFan said:


> Nutrient timing is not important



It's a matter of context. Most of the people who come through these forums, and even more so the individuals who are lurking in the background, barely know how to count calories or even squat properly. 

Nutrient timing isn't important for the OP. Feel free to make a separate thread if it's something you think is worthy of discussion.


----------



## BillHicksFan (Sep 28, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> Save your money and eat a meal.


 
"Fuck me. Once again, I never said a protein shake is inferior to a solid meal. I said that a protein shake is not superior to a meal PWO. There's a fucking difference."                                   ~ PushAndPull


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 28, 2010)

BillHicksFan said:


> "Fuck me. Once again, I never said a protein shake is inferior to a solid meal. I said that a protein shake is not superior to a meal PWO. There's a fucking difference."                                   ~ PushAndPull



Wow you are fucking dense. Everyone has to buy food, period. Since the food is as good the shake, there's no reason to buy the shake since you already have the food.


----------



## Built (Sep 28, 2010)

Fitzy89 said:


> can someone help me?
> 
> So I am trying to find a good post strength training workout shake for women any ideas? Currently I use Jay Robb whey protein or Casein and I am just wondering if anyone has any good advice bc I have heard a bunch of different ideas and I am kind of all over the place here
> 
> Thanks!


Here's a thought: Let's ask Fitzy what her goals are!

Fitzy, what are your goals? Are you having a hard time gaining weight and want something like a shake for the easy calories?

Or are you just looking for something convenient because you're hungry post workout?

Or maybe some other reason?


----------



## BillHicksFan (Sep 28, 2010)

Chill out PushAndPull, early in the thread somebody argued that whey is cheap and you relpied "but it's not better."
Now you are saying that food is as good as the shake so why not go the cheaper and most convenient option? 
Get off your soap box.


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 28, 2010)

BillHicksFan said:


> Chill out man, early in the thread somebody argued that whey is cheap and you relpied "but it's not better."
> Now you are saying that food is as good as the shake so why not go the cheaper and most convenient option?
> Get off your soap box.



Fuck you're hopeless. Yes, I said it wasn't better, that is the main point I wanted to make to him. He said buy the whey and eat a meal, but why buy the whey when it isn't going to make any difference. The supplement advertising that's out there will lead you to believe otherwise. Perfect example, you believing in the "three hour window" Of course your weak ass later tried backing out of that and replacing it with an even more retarted theory, one that you obviously made up. You would love to turn this argument around and avoid the real issue. The real agrument is the "anabolic window" theory which you and others obviously believe in. The problem with the "PWO shake" is when people believe the advertising and think it's superior, and that their gains will be better for taking it. You then likewise try to convince people that are new weight training to believe this bullshit as well. I'll repeat, convenience is the only thing protein powder is good for.


----------



## Built (Sep 28, 2010)

Okay, that's it. <stops car> "Don't make me come back there..."

The anabolic window seems to be largely overblown. Unless you're a competive athlete and training your ASS off, it seems to be more a matter of comfort than reduced catabolism that drives post workout nutritional preference. Personally, I've always been more of a preworkout meal fan, but event that's been largly falling flat in the wake of leangains blog. 

Much to ponder. Most of it probably doesn't matter much until you're nearing low single-digit bodyfat (high single-digit if you're a girl). 

Now quit it, both of you. <glowers>


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 28, 2010)

Built said:


> Okay, that's it. <stops car> "Don't make me come back there..."
> 
> The anabolic window seems to be largely overblown. Unless you're a competive athlete and training your ASS off, it seems to be more a matter of comfort than reduced catabolism that drives post workout nutritional preference. Personally, I've always been more of a preworkout meal fan, but event that's been largly falling flat in the wake of leangains blog.
> 
> ...



Killjoy


----------



## Built (Sep 28, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> Killjoy



<giggles!>


----------



## Du (Sep 28, 2010)

Fitzy89 said:


> Wow I did not think my question would result in such a response! O well I guess I will just have to experiment with different foods and such.. once again thanks guys!




Okay back on track... 

I go with:

- One scoop of AllTheWhey brand protein blend
- 8-10 ounces COLD milk
- A little icewater
- Some Hershey syrup or Nestle Powder

Finishing it off right now; delicious.


----------



## premo (Sep 29, 2010)

is this better then a protein shake





gtbmed said:


> Chocolate milk


----------



## gtbmed (Sep 29, 2010)

premo said:


> is this better then a protein shake



Is it better?  I don't know, that depends on what your goals are and whether you can fit chocolate milk into your daily macros.  But if you drink 3-4 cups of milk, that's 25-30g of protein and plenty of calories to help promote recovery.

I definitely think it tastes better.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

gtbmed said:


> Is it better?  I don't know, that depends on what your goals are and whether you can fit chocolate milk into your daily macros.  But if you drink 3-4 cups of milk, that's 25-30g of protein and plenty of calories to help promote recovery.
> 
> I definitely think it tastes better.



Not to mention it is cheap, and you can get it just about anywhere. One of the moderators (I think it may have been Built) post a very good article about the benefits of chocolate milk post workout. I'll see if I can find it.


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

Here it is!


----------



## XYZ (Sep 29, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> Wow you are fucking dense. Everyone has to buy food, period. Since the food is as good the shake, there's no reason to buy the shake since you already have the food.


 

Protein powder is more of a convenient quick solution to PWO, but nothing is going to beat solid food.


----------



## premo (Sep 29, 2010)

so right now im cutting - theres alot of sugur in milk no?


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

premo said:


> so right now im cutting - theres alot of sugur in milk no?



I think people who are seriously cutting for something like a competition avoid milk. On just a general cut I don't know if I would worry about it too much. Of course, I've _never_ been that serious about a cut.


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 29, 2010)

CT said:


> Protein powder is more of a convenient quick solution to PWO, but nothing is going to beat solid food.



I agree, but that's not what the advertising claims. People want to believe the advertising so bad that they won't even check to see if their PWO shake is delievering what it promised. Protein powder is great for convenience, but that's all it's good for.


----------



## premo (Sep 29, 2010)

im not dieting for a comp but would like to have my abs showing through and my bf low beofre i start to bulk - in the past iv bulked up not to clean lots of carbs (pasta and bread) , this time id like to be very lean and then a slow lean bulk so


----------



## premo (Sep 29, 2010)

for me its convenient as i often eat whilst on the run working/meetings etc i also find it hard to constant eat chicken through out the day im not a fish or tuna fan unfortunatly - and i wanna keep as much muscle as poss whilst cutting





premo said:


> im not dieting for a comp but would like to have my abs showing through and my bf low beofre i start to bulk - in the past iv bulked up not to clean lots of carbs (pasta and bread) , this time id like to be very lean and then a slow lean bulk so


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

I have had my abs showing pretty good in the past and drank some milk at the time, and I'm sure it is possible. Personally I am more into having strength now than having my abs show. In any case if it fits into your macros you could always try it, and if it's not working out drop it.


----------



## premo (Sep 29, 2010)

i guess they say post work out protein with sugars any way right so maybe ill give it ago - although i kinda thought my protein with creating shake was a decent option -


----------



## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

premo said:


> i guess they say post work out protein with sugars any way right so maybe ill give it ago - although i kinda thought my protein with creating shake was a decent option -



No one said is was a bad one, I don't think.


----------



## suprfast (Sep 29, 2010)

milk and cutting are not issues.  i have used whole milk in the past and currently use 1%.  If you want your abs showing, you need to lose weight.  Eat less overall calories.  

We need to get rid of the magazine hoopla mentality.  Yesterday I ate a 1/2 lb burger with cheese and thousand island.  I was still under my daily calories and my macros were close enough.  

If you had a competition in sight, then you need hardcore meal planning.


----------



## XYZ (Sep 29, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> I agree, but that's not what the advertising claims. People want to believe the advertising so bad that they won't even check to see if their PWO shake is delievering what it promised. Protein powder is great for convenience, but that's all it's good for.


 

I never said one thing about the advertising, that's a different story which has nothing to do with my original statement.

Protein powder is quicker and easier than is a whole food meal.


----------



## Fitzy89 (Sep 29, 2010)

o boy lol lots going on here.... in response to Built I am looking to lose fat right now I am 20.4% body fat according to that steering wheel thing (who knows how great that is) I workout like 5-6 days a week 4-5 days HITT cardio and 3-4 days lifting etc... and the only reason I was asking this whole thing in the begininng is because I was looking to mix up my foods PWO so from what I have gathered here as long as I am having carbs and protein for my high intensity lifting and strength training day then I am good to go... right?


----------



## Built (Sep 29, 2010)

Fitzy89 said:


> o boy lol lots going on here.... in response to Built I am looking to lose fat right now I am 20.4% body fat according to that steering wheel thing (who knows how great that is) I workout like 5-6 days a week 4-5 days HIIT cardio and 3-4 days lifting etc... and the only reason I was asking this whole thing in the beginning is because I was looking to mix up my foods PWO so from what I have gathered here as long as I am having carbs and protein for my high intensity lifting and strength training day then I am good to go... right?



That's pretty much how most of us do it, yes. 

You sound like you're trying to exercise off the weight though, and at 20% bodyfat, you're already quite lean. So I have a few questions for you:


How lean are you trying to go?
What is your current weight and height?
What is your goal weight?
How much have you lost, and over what time-frame?
What calories, and grams of protein, carb and fat do you consume daily?
Are you currently losing? How fast (ie how many pounds per week)?


----------



## jbryand101b (Sep 29, 2010)

If you dont believe in nutrient timing, and how key it is to maximizing performance & recovery, I feel sorry for you.


----------



## gtbmed (Sep 29, 2010)

jbryand101b said:


> If you dont believe in nutrient timing, and how key it is to maximizing performance & recovery, I feel sorry for you.



Why is that?


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 29, 2010)

CT said:


> I never said one thing about the advertising, that's a different story which has nothing to do with my original statement.
> 
> Protein powder is quicker and easier than is a whole food meal.



Yeah, I never said you did. Was just making conversation. But I can see that's not you intent. Thanks for trying to enlighten me.


PushAndPull said:


> I'll repeat, convenience is the only thing protein powder is good for.


----------



## suprfast (Sep 29, 2010)

Opens fridge, grabs chocolate milk, drinks chocolate milk, gets fat because the body didn't need it at that moment.


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 29, 2010)

suprfast said:


> Opens fridge, grabs chocolate milk, drinks chocolate milk, gets fat because the body didn't need it at that moment.



This isn't a serious statement, right?


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 29, 2010)

jbryand101b said:


> If you dont believe in nutrient timing, and how key it is to maximizing performance & recovery, I feel sorry for you.



I feel sorry for you. It must be expensive to be a placebo head.


----------



## LAM (Sep 29, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> I agree, but that's not what the advertising claims. People want to believe the advertising so bad that they won't even check to see if their PWO shake is delievering what it promised. Protein powder is great for convenience, but that's all it's good for.



powdered proteins have a higher BV than any other whole food protein sources besides whole eggs and gram for gram they are the most economical source of protein. on an empty stomach AA's from powdered proteins can hit the portal bloodstream in 10-15 minutes as compared to 60-60 minutes with a whole food protein source such as poultry.

they use whey and soy protiens for may different patients at the Mayo Clinic


----------



## Marat (Sep 29, 2010)

LAM, what do you suggest are the practical lifting-related implications for that data?


----------



## LAM (Sep 29, 2010)

Marat said:


> LAM, what do you suggest are the practical lifting-related implications for that data?



IMO..powdered protein supps are optimum for pre-post workout because they do reach the portal bloodstream so quickly.  the body is either in a catabolic state or an anabolic state or transitioning between the two.  that being the case post workout when there is a negative nitrogen balance the fastest and most convenient way to get the body back into an anabolic state is to either use powdered protein supps, BCAA or AA caps, non-fat milk, egg whites or some type of low fat white fish.  The whole food protein sources that I listed for most would provide AA's to the body in roughly 30-45 minutes.

supplement/nutrient timing is more important than people think.  the least amount of time the body is in a catabolic state over the course of the year the more gains a person will make in LBM, fat loss, etc.


----------



## suprfast (Sep 29, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> This isn't a serious statement, right?



far from it.  But i did get a chocolate milk because you guys made me thirsty.  

I am sure it plays a role for someone like ronnie coleman or usain bolt but not for me.


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 29, 2010)

LAM said:


> powdered proteins have a higher BV than any other whole food protein sources besides whole eggs.



That's nice, but I simply don't believe this will have any real effect on muscle gains as long as you eat lots of protein from meat.



LAM said:


> and gram for gram they are the most economical source of protein.



Really? What protein powder are you referring too? I've seen tuna for dirt cheap. Or how about milk, you can get a gallon of milk for really cheap. Say 2.50 a gallon. So lets see 1 gallon has 15 servings at 8 grams per serving so that's 2 cents per gram of protein. I haven't seen any protein powders cheaper than that.




LAM said:


> on an empty stomach AA's from powdered proteins can hit the portal bloodstream in 10-15 minutes as compared to 60-60 minutes with a whole food protein source such as poultry.



This means nothing to me, since it doesn't translate into better gains in the real world.


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 29, 2010)

suprfast said:


> far from it.  But i did get a chocolate milk because you guys made me thirsty.
> 
> I am sure it plays a role for someone like ronnie coleman or usain bolt but not for me.



I didn't think you were


----------



## LAM (Sep 29, 2010)

suprfast said:


> I am sure it plays a role for someone like ronnie coleman or usain bolt but not for me.



you would be surprised...

nothing wrong with milk PWO. I do it sometimes but use FF since the fats slow gastric emptying.


----------



## suprfast (Sep 29, 2010)

if i drink regular milk, more than my gastric would be emptied.  

By the way, lactaid chocolate milk is YUM


----------



## XYZ (Sep 30, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> Yeah, I never said you did. Was just making conversation. But I can see that's not you intent. Thanks for trying to enlighten me.


 

Damn.  You sure can be a smart ass.


----------



## gtbmed (Sep 30, 2010)

LAM said:


> IMO..powdered protein supps are optimum for pre-post workout because they do reach the portal bloodstream so quickly.  the body is either in a catabolic state or an anabolic state or transitioning between the two.  that being the case post workout when there is a negative nitrogen balance the fastest and most convenient way to get the body back into an anabolic state is to either use powdered protein supps, BCAA or AA caps, non-fat milk, egg whites or some type of low fat white fish.  The whole food protein sources that I listed for most would provide AA's to the body in roughly 30-45 minutes.
> 
> supplement/nutrient timing is more important than people think.  the least amount of time the body is in a catabolic state over the course of the year the more gains a person will make in LBM, fat loss, etc.



So let's say I eat 100% of my daily protein before my workout.  Am I still going to be in a negative nitrogen balance after the workout?  That seems unlikely to me.


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 30, 2010)

CT said:


> Damn.  You sure can be a smart ass.



In this thread i've repeatly said that protein powder is about convenience. Which you then reiterated to me. I assumed you were agreeing with me and making converstion. I falsely assuming you read more than one of my posts. Then you became defensive because I was talking about advertising. Obviously, you didn't read any or very few of the other posts in the thread and then you took one random post of mine, not knowing the context of that post and ran with it. Which is very irritating, hence the smart ass reply.


----------



## XYZ (Sep 30, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> In this thread i've repeatly said that protein powder is about convenience. Which you then reiterated to me. I assumed you were agreeing with me and making converstion. I falsely assuming you read more than one of my posts. Then you became defensive because I was talking about advertising. Obviously, you didn't read any or very few of the other posts in the thread and then you took one random post of mine, not knowing the context of that post and ran with it. Which is very irritating, hence the smart ass reply.


 

You're right, I didn't read through every single post, why would I when I'm responding to one post in particular?  You went into the entire advertising thing which I could really care less about, I was responding to your post, and only your post in regards to protein powder being more convienient.  Nothing more.  You're the one who is having the attitude.

I didn't get defensive, I just called it like I read it, you're just being defensive, not only with me but with just about everyone else here who disagrees with you.  

It's an internet forum, nothing more people are going to disagree.  You're just being arrogant in your own defense.  Instead of turning the other cheek you seem to be so stubborn that you just have to re-hash the same old garbage over and over.

I'm sorry you were so irritated, but that's not a reason to be rude now is it?


----------



## PushAndPull (Sep 30, 2010)

CT said:


> You're right, I didn't read through every single post, why would I when I'm responding to one post in particular?  You went into the entire advertising thing which I could really care less about, I was responding to your post, and only your post in regards to protein powder being more convienient.  Nothing more.  You're the one who is having the attitude.
> 
> I didn't get defensive, I just called it like I read it, you're just being defensive, not only with me but with just about everyone else here who disagrees with you.
> 
> ...



I'm done with this discussion, have a nice day.


----------



## XYZ (Sep 30, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> I'm done with this discussion, have a nice day.


 

You as well.


----------



## Fitzy89 (Sep 30, 2010)

Ok Built... I am 21 yr old female 5'7 currently weighing 154 I am really muscular but I want to get leaner. 
My goal weight is 140.
I have lost 12 lbs thus far at about 1-2 lbs per week for about 1 month and a half.
I would like to be like 16-18% body fat
I am currently carb cycling so my carbs change every 3 days (no, moderate, high)
Protein: 150 grams/ day
Fat: not much I try to avoid too much anywhere from 10-30 g/ day
Carbs: No carb day: pretty much none, Mod carb day : 154 grams, high carb day usually 200 -220 grams


----------



## suprfast (Sep 30, 2010)

Fitzy89 said:


> Ok Built... I am 21 yr old female 5'7 currently weighing 154 I am really muscular but I want to get leaner.
> My goal weight is 140.
> I have lost 12 lbs thus far at about 1-2 lbs per week for about 1 month and a half.
> I would like to be like 16-18% body fat
> ...



If I know built, she will say to up the fats(healthy, they make her happy), lower the carbs, and hold steady to a specific caloric intake.


----------



## gtbmed (Sep 30, 2010)

I would at least increase your fat intake on your no carb days.  I assume you're training on your high carb days?


----------



## Fitzy89 (Sep 30, 2010)

yea  on my hardcore strength training days I have high carbs ...as far as fat goes is where I get a bit confused because the carb cycling program I am following did not really stress that much about fats  I compared it to other plans which said to have low fat... so right now on my no carb days I up my fats to like 30 g from foods eggs, tuna (in oil ...the one in water sucks), or extra virgin olive oil on my salad.  I have been avoiding peanut butter like the plague because I LOOVVVVVVVE It and  I heard somewhere that it actually can hinder fat loss.  

as far as my total cals per day it depends on the day due to the carb cycling but according to my records (  I am a loser and have an excel spreadsheet that totals up my daily cals, and macros) I would say the lowest amount I have had is pretty low its like 1300 on no carb day and on high carb day  like 1900-2000.


----------



## Marat (Sep 30, 2010)

Fitzy89 said:


> I have been avoiding peanut butter like the plague because I LOOVVVVVVVE It and  I heard somewhere that it actually can hinder fat loss.



It doesn't directly help or hinder fat loss. It's a calorie source like anything else. If it fits into your macros, feel free to eat it. It's a great source of fat. 

Perhaps the reason that you 'heard it can hinder fat loss' is because peanut butter is nutritionally dense. If one isn't tracking their intake, it's possible to take in a more calories from peanut butter than one anticipates. 

You track your calories, you'll be fine taking it in.


----------



## Jag (Dec 21, 2010)

I love "post workout" threads. You always get people with different opinions because 
everyone is different, 
everyones training and training goals are different 
and everyones body chemistry is different in regards to how they assimulate nutrients.
You also have to consider age, mood, weather conditions and much, much more!!!

I used to train fasted, first thing in the morning and would need some protein/carbs real quick afterwards. Within 30 minutes, or i'd have issues.

Now i train after work 2-2.5 hours after lunch, with 3-4 meals in me and i can, and have, waited up to 2 hours post workout to have anything at all. 

I actually feel a lot fuller in the muscle with no food/shake.........sometimes!!! I'm assuming this is because blood hasn't headed to the digestive sysytem but i'm just assuming. Sometimes i'm ravenous and eating well within 30 minutes.

It's a topic that is OFTEN over thought whereas you should just let your body tell you that it's time for nutrition and what form that nutrition comes in is what YOU feel like YOU need at the time. 

If you're hungry, eat. If you're not, then don't eat. It's highly unlikely you'll lose pounds of muscle if you don't eat within 3 hours of a workout if you're not hungry.


----------

