# Transition to Power Training



## ptwannabe (Mar 31, 2008)

I have two workouts left before the 9 weeks of Bill Starr's 5x5 program is over for me and I am going to start training to convert strength gains to power. I am looking for some good info on Plyometric, Ballistic, and Isometric training specifically for football performance. Does anyone have good links or are familliar with these forms of training and could give me information about it?


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## P-funk (Mar 31, 2008)

have you been doing any plyos at all right now?

were you performing the power clean as part of your program (or did you swap it out for the bent over row)?

How far out from training camp are you?  If you are still far out, then you don't want to start doing the real specific work just yet.

The Bill Starr program is good as it covers strength in thre main lifts squat, bench press and power clean (or bent over row).  However, it is incomplete (in my opinion) in that it only focuses on developing one quality (strength) where sports performance calls upon several qualities.

If you have a program that only prioritizes strength, then you have an incomplete program.


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## ptwannabe (Apr 1, 2008)

I haven't been doing plyo's lately and we don't even have a coach yet but some of the seniors are gonna start spring training in about 2 months. 
And I swapped power cleans out for B/O Row.


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## ptwannabe (Apr 2, 2008)

bump


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## P-funk (Apr 2, 2008)

start making a more balanced program and focusing on other capacities.

2 months = 8 weeks of training

1-3 weeks focus on work capacity/general conditioning (with small emphasis on strength and power...start using plyos that focus on deceleration)

week 4- transition to heavier strength work

week 5-6= strength work focus; power training secondary emphasis

week 7-8= sports power and specific conditioning; strength secondary


And that is assuming that you don't have other issues going on with your body.  it is impossible to be specific with a program without being there to see you and assess the situation.

Take into consideration everything from:

- injuries
- faulty movement patterns
- position
- what you need to improve on (strength or power or work capacity or increasing muscular size)

all that is above is very general.


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## P-funk (Apr 2, 2008)

also, if you read my blog, you should have some ideas of how to set things up.

being by coming up with a template of things that you have to work on.  how many days a week of lifting....what about conditioning?  will it be done on lifting days or on non-lifting days?  What about when you get to specific conditioning?  What do you know about work to rest ratios in your sport.  what position do you play and how does that affect things.

what is your template going to be....total body....upper/lower....

you need to establish these things before moving forward.


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## ptwannabe (Apr 3, 2008)

Alright thanks P I'll check your blog out, much appreciated.


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## ptwannabe (Apr 3, 2008)

Hey I read your blog "Developing a sports training program" and this is what I came up with on every point...


1.) Assessment-
One Rep Maxes

Weight-175lbs
Height-5'10"
BF%- ~12%
Bench- 220
Squat- 270
Dead-Lift- 285
Row- 240
Endurance Plank- 00:07:01 
Room for Improvement- Explosiveness/agility
2.) Sport- Football

3.) Typical Injuries- Knee & neck sprain (those are the 2 injuries I had last year)

4.) Energy Systems for Football- ATP-PC, Anaerobic Glycosis, & Aerobic

5.) Joint Angles- I'm not to sure about this one I couldn't find anything about it, but my positions are Middle Linebacker/Defensive End and Tight-end. So for ML the joint would be knees mainly, and for DE & TE it would be hips and knees. Correct me if I'm wrong.

6.) Where in the Year is the Athlete- Two months before spring training which in past years lasted anywhere from two days to two weeks then we get together in the summer and have little "two-touch" scrimmages which are un-mandatory then we have a week of two-a-days and I'd rather train than dick around in the summer.


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## ptwannabe (Apr 3, 2008)

*Template (Rough Draft)*
M,T,Th,F

*Week 1-3 Capacity/General Conditioning*
Monday

Tuesday

Thursday

Friday

*Week 4 Transition to Heavier Strength Work*
Monday

Tuesday

Thursday

Friday

*Week 5-6 First Priority Strength, Second Power*
Monday

Tuesday

Thursday

Friday
*
Week 7-8 Sport Power & Specific Conditioning first/Strength second priority*
Monday

Tuesday

Thursday

Friday


I'm at a loss of what to fill in these days with I should be able to condition on lifting days and on non-lifting days.


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## P-funk (Apr 3, 2008)

I would now set up a daily template:

warm up
conditioning/speed/agility (depening on days and phases)
plyometric work
resistance training
core work
flexibility


Then start to fill in the blanks.


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## CowPimp (Apr 3, 2008)

P is offering some solid advice here.  The benefit of doing what he suggests over more traditional linear periodization is a lesser deterioration of the biomotor abilities you aren't emphasizing.


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## P-funk (Apr 3, 2008)

CowPimp said:


> P is offering some solid advice here.  The benefit of doing what he suggests over more traditional linear periodization is a lesser deterioration of the biomotor abilities you aren't emphasizing.



yea....i try and steer away from just training one quality (linear periodization), especially in sports where several qualities (like football) are needed in order to be successful.

I wish I could be more specific, but I know nothing about you.  One thing I would say about your trainign split is:

in phase 1: think about maybe training 3x's a week and working on your conditioning on inbetween days....as well, work on anything that needs big help (movement problems/strength deficits)....if you read my blog over the next few entries I am going to talk about circuit training and adding it to a program to help increase your benefits; by using it as "extra workouts" during the week and focusing on those important areas that need to get work.

in the transition, maintain that 3x's a week, drop the volume and up the intensity a little.

in phase 2 (the strength phase) up the inensity a little and volume of strength work but still maintain work capcity stuff as well.

In phases 1-2 plyos should be low level and also include plyos that work primarily on deceleratation, in order to prepare you for more intense work to come.

In phase 3: I would go with more concentrated loading (the west-side BB split is actually a good split to use ideas from....but, change some things as you are not trainign for a powerlifting meet).

in phase 4 (power emphasis) I would drop training to very low volume of strength work2-3x's a week and focus mainly on power work and sports specific drills.  This is your time to really get your ass ready for pre-season.  Strenght work can be low volume and i also like using complexes here, for example 1a) back squat for 1-3 reps; rest 3min; 1b) broad jump for 8 reps; rest 3min. repeat as you work a strength/power continuum.  You don't have to do this at all, but I find it to be effective sometimes.

hope that gives you some more food for thought.


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## ptwannabe (Apr 4, 2008)

yep it sure is giving me food for thought I have my pen and notebook out taking notes, This is great info. I'll be sure to read your blog the next few days.


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## ptwannabe (Apr 6, 2008)

Hey P, could you give me some examples of deceleration plyos?


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## P-funk (Apr 6, 2008)

ptwannabe said:


> Hey P, could you give me some examples of deceleration plyos?



Jump squat stick
sinlge leg forward jump and stick
1-2 stick
lateral hop and stick
altitude landings (from a low surface at first)

Box jumps are also a good place to start since they limit landing force.


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## ptwannabe (Apr 7, 2008)

*Daily Template*

*Monday*
Warmup
Plyo (light)
Resistance
Core work
Flexibility

*Tuesday*
Warmup
Speed/Agi
Plyo work _( I'm not sure if I need to do plyo work everyday or just on resistance days or on inbetween days)_
Flexibility

*Wednsday*
Warmup
Plyo
Resistance
Core work
Flexibility

*Thursday*
Warmup
Agi/Speed
Plyo
Flexibility

*Friday*
Warmup
Plyo
Resistance
Core work
Flexibility

*Saturday*
Warmup
Conditioning
Plyo
Flexibility

*Sunday*
OFF


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## ptwannabe (Apr 7, 2008)

What I am thinking about for my warmup on inbetween days is this.

1/4 mile jog
Jumping Jacks
Hammy Kicks-20yrds
High Knees-20yrds
Saigon Squat-30 sec
Carioca-20yrds
Hip Flexors
Hammy Kicks again
High Knees again


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## P-funk (Apr 7, 2008)

your set up is all over the place.  you don't need plyos on every day.  you have lots of stuff spread out and you need better direction (did you check out my blog today?  I had training splits lied out).

Not sure about that warm up.  Not a big fan of butt kicks and high knees as they teach movements that don't really happen in a sprint.  But, if you combine the too, they work a little better together.

Don't know what a saigon squat is either.


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## ptwannabe (Apr 7, 2008)

Yea, I didn't think I needed plyos everyday.

And a Saigon Squat is where you squat and use your elbows to spread your legs slowly.

And I'm not too familiar how to train for this but I'm trying hard to get this right.

I'm about to look at your blog in like 5 seconds


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## P-funk (Apr 7, 2008)

ptwannabe said:


> Yea, I didn't think I needed plyos everyday.
> 
> And a Saigon Squat is where you squat and use your elbows to spread your legs slowly.
> 
> ...



It's okay if you aren't familiar.....that is why you are asking questions!  the best part is, once you get familiar and you learn how to set it up, people will be asking you for help!!

Just keep at it man.  You interest in learning more is going to take you far.


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## ptwannabe (Apr 7, 2008)

The split that stuck out to me was 

Day1- heavy upper body day/lighter lower body day
Day2- speed and agility work
Day3- Heavy lower body day/lighter upper body work
Day4- tempos or circuits
Day5- Speed and agility
Day6- tempos or circuits

-And about tempo and circuit work. Could you give examples of the two I think I understand tempo work but just to grasp the concept more.

-And on Day 1 and Day 3 what would the number of lifts, sets, reps, and rest ratio be for heavy upper body/lighter lower body & Heavy lower/Lighter upper be?


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## ptwannabe (Apr 7, 2008)

The split that stuck out to me was 

Day1- heavy upper body day/lighter lower body day
Day2- speed and agility work
Day3- Heavy lower body day/lighter upper body work
Day4- tempos or circuits
Day5- Speed and agility
Day6- tempos or circuits

-And about tempo and circuit work. Could you give examples of the two I think I understand tempo work but just to grasp the concept more.

-And on Day 1 and Day 3 what would the number of lifts, sets, reps, and rest ratio be for heavy upper body/lighter lower body & Heavy lower/Lighter upper be?


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## ptwannabe (Apr 7, 2008)

I read back over circuit training, I missed your example workout in your blog. So basically it is doing constant movements resting then moving right into different constant movements until you have worked everything you planned to


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## P-funk (Apr 7, 2008)

ptwannabe said:


> The split that stuck out to me was
> 
> Day1- heavy upper body day/lighter lower body day
> Day2- speed and agility work
> ...




That split is okay, but since you are so far from training camp, you would want to lift more and getting in some training volume and increase strength (and size if need be).  That split is better for later phases of trainign when sports specific work needs to be focused on at the expense of less time in the weight room.

The tempo work would be, like I said, running the straights at about 70-75% (so not all out; but working on form or technique) and then walking the turns, or performing calisthenics or an abdominal/core circuit.  This is different than speed work, where you are performing maximal effort (or near max effort) sprints with a long rest periodi (3-5min) and different than metabolic work where you are developing your anaerobic capacity and your ability to resist fatigue (like shuttle runs or something like that).  Hope that makes sense to you.

For the circuit, I gave an example, you just need to find the things that are most important to you and work them into that circuit (if you opt to use this as part of your training program)


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## ptwannabe (Apr 7, 2008)

Would you recommend the:
Option 1 (upper/lower)
Day1- speed and agility/low volume leg work
Day2- Tempo work/upper body training
Day3- off or active rest or low intensity body weight circuits
Day4- speed and agility/low volume leg work
Day5- Tempo work/upper body training
Day6- off or active rest or low intensity body weight circuits
Day7- OFF 
that you had in your blog also

Or what type of split would you recommend?


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## P-funk (Apr 7, 2008)

that would be a good one for your first few blocks of training.


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## ptwannabe (Apr 7, 2008)

alright, cool. And just fyi I am starting my week off from the bill start program today and I plan to start this 8 wk program next week, but if I don't have all the information I need I'll postpone starting it in order to get it as good as I can, I don't want to waste time.


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## P-funk (Apr 7, 2008)

ptwannabe said:


> alright, cool. And just fyi I am starting my week off from the bill start program today and I plan to start this 8 wk program next week, but if I don't have all the information I need I'll postpone starting it in order to get it as good as I can, I don't want to waste time.



If it isn't perfect, start something.  If you spend you entire life planning the best program, you will spend your entire life planning the best program.

How much time do you have to train?  How many days a week can you train?  AM and PM workouts?  How much time can you devote to training?


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## ptwannabe (Apr 7, 2008)

P-funk said:


> If it isn't perfect, start something.  If you spend you entire life planning the best program, you will spend your entire life planning the best program.
> 
> How much time do you have to train?  How many days a week can you train?  AM and PM workouts?  How much time can you devote to training?



I have alot of time to train, I can train any day of the week, I can to am and pm workouts, and I can devote however much time is needed to training.


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## ptwannabe (Apr 7, 2008)

double post


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## P-funk (Apr 7, 2008)

ptwannabe said:


> I have alot of time to train, I can train any day of the week, I can to am and pm workouts, and I can devote however much time is needed to training.



WTF!!  Do you go to school?


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## ptwannabe (Apr 8, 2008)

yes I do ,lol,but I can wake up early and I can stay up late if I need to I don't have a job yet even when I do I'll still work around it.


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## P-funk (Apr 8, 2008)

maybe i can help you out with some specific program design.  I don't know how it would work since i have never done the online consulting thing and i have never had a client that i didn't personally evaluate right there...as well as all the other stuff that goes with working with a person, like adjusting training on the fly if things aren't going right or the person is tired, specific stretching, and soft tissue work.

but, maybe i can help you.


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## ptwannabe (Apr 8, 2008)

That would be great man.


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## CowPimp (Apr 12, 2008)

I just wanted to mention something I have been doing lately conditioning wise.  P mentioned using some circuits/callisthenics for conditioning work.  Well, first of all, if you look through my journals you can see I have done a lot of this throughout my training career because I simply get bored doing traditional cardio!

Now, more recently I have done a sort of hybrid of what I was doing, but mixed in more mobility/prehab work one day a week, and I think it is great!  I can still get my heart rate up there (I have worn a HR monitor during and I peak at like 81-84% of my max) while working on mobilizing my least mobile joints and keeping my shoulders healthy.  I also include sled dragging and running up and down stairs to keep the intensity up a bit.  I love it so far.

Also, as a real world example: I was only doing 1 day per week of high intensity interval training, and another 1-2 days per week of conditioning circuits a while back.  I enrolled in a basketball course.  There were, of course, multiple people from my school's basketball team in the class.  Note: these are people who play the game on a regular basis.  I suck at basketball, but the only place I had a leg up was that I could outlast all these people!  So, this type of conditioning work does well in a sporting environment, at least in my experience.


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## chris mason (Apr 12, 2008)

Contrary to the opinions of many trainers, resistance training in and of itself will translate to almost no improvement on the field of play.  

Resistance training can increase our ability to produce muscular force in two ways.  One is via hypertrophy of the contractile proteins.  The other is via more efficient neural recruitment.  Neural recruitment is EXTREMELY specific, thus improvements in neural recruitment relative to a specific resistance exercise will have virtually correlation to on the field improvement.  

Hypertrophy of the contractile proteins improves the force production capability of the musculature.  This adaptation can be adapted to on the field play, but only via practice of sport specific movements.  

I think this is where athletes lose their way to some degree.  They practice exercises that they think will translate directly to on the field improvements (power cleans being a good example) and essentially make their training less efficient than it could be.


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## P-funk (Apr 12, 2008)

chris mason said:


> Contrary to the opinions of many trainers, resistance training in and of itself will translate to almost no improvement on the field of play.
> 
> Resistance training can increase our ability to produce muscular force in two ways.  One is via hypertrophy of the contractile proteins.  The other is via more efficient neural recruitment.  Neural recruitment is EXTREMELY specific, thus improvements in neural recruitment relative to a specific resistance exercise will have virtually correlation to on the field improvement.
> 
> ...





yes, this is true.  the skill transfer from the weight room to the gym is where most athletes and trainers loose it.  typically because they focus on developing only one quality (usually strength) and don't have a well-rounded program which focuses on aspects of their sport (aside from being in the gym).  I have seen this a lot with strength coaches who train their athletes as if they are powerlifters or olympic weightlifters.  While strength is important, there are other things that need to be considered and athletes/coaches need to recognize that.


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## chris mason (Apr 12, 2008)

P-funk said:


> yes, this is true. the skill transfer from the weight room to the gym is where most athletes and trainers loose it. typically because they focus on developing only one quality (usually strength) and don't have a well-rounded program which focuses on aspects of their sport (aside from being in the gym). I have seen this a lot with strength coaches who train their athletes as if they are powerlifters or olympic weightlifters. While strength is important, there are other things that need to be considered and athletes/coaches need to recognize that.


 
Hey, where in AZ are you?  I lived in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area for 18+ years.


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## P-funk (Apr 12, 2008)

chris mason said:


> Hey, where in AZ are you?  I lived in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area for 18+ years.



I live in chandler.

where did you move too?


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## chris mason (Apr 12, 2008)

In Charlottesville, VA now.  

Good stuff.  I will be out to the Scottsdale area in Sept. for my 20 year reunion.  

Chris


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## CowPimp (Apr 14, 2008)

chris mason said:


> Contrary to the opinions of many trainers, resistance training in and of itself will translate to almost no improvement on the field of play.
> 
> Resistance training can increase our ability to produce muscular force in two ways.  One is via hypertrophy of the contractile proteins.  The other is via more efficient neural recruitment.  Neural recruitment is EXTREMELY specific, thus improvements in neural recruitment relative to a specific resistance exercise will have virtually correlation to on the field improvement.
> 
> ...



I have seen studies to suggest there is some correlation, but it requires a pretty substantial increase in strength or power production in a movement like the squat to correlate to very minor increases in performance in something like running or jumping.  However, if the difference between you and your competition is small, then you could gain an edge.

As well, it also depends on how advanced the person is.  Someone fairly new to resistance training, new to heavy lifting, or, I postulate, even now to something like RFD/reactive training, can reap more significant benefits by improving these general neuromuscular qualities, as opposed to intermuscular coordination, as I believe you are suggesting here.

Also, there is the transmutation of training effects to consider.  More specific work tends to be required to reap the greatest benefits from the more general work.  Hence the traditional periodization scheme of transitioning from more general to more specific work as the competitive season approaches.


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## chris mason (Apr 14, 2008)

CowPimp said:


> I have seen studies to suggest there is some correlation, but it requires a pretty substantial increase in strength or power production in a movement like the squat to correlate to very minor increases in performance in something like running or jumping. However, if the difference between you and your competition is small, then you could gain an edge.
> 
> As well, it also depends on how advanced the person is. Someone fairly new to resistance training, new to heavy lifting, or, I postulate, even now to something like RFD/reactive training, can reap more significant benefits by improving these general neuromuscular qualities, as opposed to intermuscular coordination, as I believe you are suggesting here.
> 
> Also, there is the transmutation of training effects to consider. More specific work tends to be required to reap the greatest benefits from the more general work. Hence the traditional periodization scheme of transitioning from more general to more specific work as the competitive season approaches.


 
An increase in general force production capability, contractile hypertrophy, will lead to some improvement in many movements simply because the generalized increase in force production capability will allow the athlete to accelerate loads more quickly.  In other words, if you can bench 400 lbs you can throw 135 lbs around a lot faster than someone who can only bench 200 lbs.  A similar thing can be seen with sprinting.  Via a generalized in leg and hip strength the athlete can realize a slight increase in sprinting ability simply because their muscles can move their own load more explosively due to their increased force production capability.

From a skill perspective, there truly is virtually no carryover from the weight room to the field.


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## CowPimp (Apr 14, 2008)

chris mason said:


> An increase in general force production capability, contractile hypertrophy, will lead to some improvement in many movements simply because the generalized increase in force production capability will allow the athlete to accelerate loads more quickly.  In other words, if you can bench 400 lbs you can throw 135 lbs around a lot faster than someone who can only bench 200 lbs.  A similar thing can be seen with sprinting.  Via a generalized in leg and hip strength the athlete can realize a slight increase in sprinting ability simply because their muscles can move their own load more explosively due to their increased force production capability.
> 
> From a skill perspective, there truly is virtually no carryover from the weight room to the field.



From a skill perspective, you are probably right.  However, you can also improve the force-velocity profile of muscular contraction from what I understand.  Again, I'm talking intramuscular coordination here.  That is, things that are operating regardless of the movement pattern in which a muscle is involved.


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## chris mason (Apr 15, 2008)

CowPimp said:


> From a skill perspective, you are probably right. However, you can also improve the force-velocity profile of muscular contraction from what I understand. Again, I'm talking intramuscular coordination here. That is, things that are operating regardless of the movement pattern in which a muscle is involved.


 
I think you are correct about improving one's ability to quickly generate force, but that again goes back to specific movements and does not have a high correlation between different movements.


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## CowPimp (Apr 18, 2008)

chris mason said:


> I think you are correct about improving one's ability to quickly generate force, but that again goes back to specific movements and does not have a high correlation between different movements.



So you don't think training a movement that involves, say triple extension, will have any significant impact on a movement that also involves triple extension but is fundamentally different?  For example, a power clean and a vertical leap?  I'm definitely not saying that correlation is 1:1, far from it, but it would seem to me that it is significant enough to warrant training the movement.  

This seems to be further corroborated by Olympic lifters have some of the highest vertical leaps of any athlete out there, without any specific training with the movement.


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## johnfit (Apr 18, 2008)

*I like It..*

That 5x5 Program Is Great For Shocking Those Fast Twitch Fibers!


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## chris mason (Apr 18, 2008)

CowPimp said:


> So you don't think training a movement that involves, say triple extension, will have any significant impact on a movement that also involves triple extension but is fundamentally different? For example, a power clean and a vertical leap? I'm definitely not saying that correlation is 1:1, far from it, but it would seem to me that it is significant enough to warrant training the movement.
> 
> This seems to be further corroborated by Olympic lifters have some of the highest vertical leaps of any athlete out there, without any specific training with the movement.


 
To answer your question, no, not much at all.

I always question the whole Olympic lifter thing. I think that is a bit of a myth perpetuated online.  That said, if it were true, the relationship may not be causal.  In other words, those who make for good Olympic lifters may have a predisposition to be very explosive in those muscles/muscle groups as opposed to the training having made them explosive jumpers.  A good example is Travis Mash.  The guy is a top tier powerlifter, but also a very good Olympic lifter.  Over the last few years his training was powerlifting oriented and he has recently decided to try the Olympic lifting area again.  That said, his vertical leap is STUPIDLY good and it was not because he was practicing the Olympic lifts.  See his video here:






YouTube Video


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