# Dextrose in Protein



## musclepump (Nov 30, 2005)

For those of you who add Dextrose to your protein shakes, how many grams do you put in? And what does it do to the taste?


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## soxmuscle (Nov 30, 2005)

it makes it taste freakin' great.  as for how much i put in, it varies for me but i always try and get a couple tbsp in.


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## Thermal2 (Dec 1, 2005)

makes anthing taste great, it is sugar!!! i add it to my gatorade and gluatmine mix for my pre workout drink.  sometimes add it to my midday shake.  grams vary from 25-50g


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## Pirate! (Dec 1, 2005)

70-140 grams. Taste real yummy. Super sweet.


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## musclepump (Dec 1, 2005)

Wow. I thought the package would last awhile, being fairly decently sized; but with that kind of grams, I should have bought more


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## dougnukem (Dec 1, 2005)

I use it in my coffee too.


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## musclepump (Dec 1, 2005)

Now, what are the exact reasons for using Corn Sugar over Cane Sugar and Sucralose and the like? A buddy at the gym asked me this morning and I don't think I had enough of an answer to satisfy his intrigue.


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## Flakko (Dec 1, 2005)

I think it's something that has to do with cane sugar being fructose and slowly absorbed, on the other hand dextrose it's absorbed faster, something like. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Pirate! (Dec 1, 2005)

Sucrose (table sugar) is half fructose and have glucose. Dextrose is pure glucose. I buy 50 lbs of dextrose for $45 after shipping.


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## FishOrCutBait (Dec 1, 2005)

50-75 grams does it for me, A small amount of fructose (25g) Can, in theory, help with muscular glycogen restoration, as it replenishes glycogen in the liver.


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## Pirate! (Dec 2, 2005)

Flakko said:
			
		

> I think it's something that has to do with cane sugar being fructose and slowly absorbed, on the other hand dextrose it's absorbed faster, something like. Correct me if I'm wrong.


It isn't that fructose is absorbed slowly. The issue is that fructose must be processed by the liver to be converted to the only form of sugar your body can use, glucose. This process takes time. Dextrose is glucose monomers which can be used immediately.


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## Sir Savage (Dec 2, 2005)

musclepump said:
			
		

> Now, what are the exact reasons for using Corn Sugar over Cane Sugar and Sucralose and the like? A buddy at the gym asked me this morning and I don't think I had enough of an answer to satisfy his intrigue.



Of all sugars, dextrose provides the best insulin response. Insulin, as you'll recall, is the highly anabolic hormone that shuttles nutrients to cells, including muscle cells. 

After a workout, it is extremely important to get nutrients to muscle cells as quickly as possible so that recovery and growth can take place. Hence, dextose provides the best way to get nutrients to muscle cells, aside from injecting insulin, which is really not advisable.


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## myCATpowerlifts (Dec 2, 2005)

As I am not trying to bulk, I use 25-30 grams of protein along with
powerade mix, which is all flavored dextrose, And I put in about 40-65 grams.


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## Pirate! (Dec 2, 2005)

Sir Savage said:
			
		

> Of all sugars, dextrose provides the best insulin response. Insulin, as you'll recall, is the highly anabolic hormone that shuttles nutrients to cells, including muscle cells.
> 
> After a workout, it is extremely important to get nutrients to muscle cells as quickly as possible so that recovery and growth can take place. Hence, dextose provides the best way to get nutrients to muscle cells, aside from injecting insulin, which is really not advisable.


This is all true. However, the best benefit of as insulin spike post w/o is its effect on cortisol, limiting muscle loss. Insulin's ability to reduce SHBG is quite beneficial, as well. I believe the shuttling nutrients/replenishing glycogen benfit isn't as significant as the aforementioned benefit.


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## redspy (Dec 2, 2005)

Sir Savage said:
			
		

> Of all sugars, dextrose provides the best insulin response. Insulin, as you'll recall, is the highly anabolic hormone that shuttles nutrients to cells, including muscle cells.





			
				Sir Savage said:
			
		

> After a workout, it is extremely important to get nutrients to muscle cells as quickly as possible so that recovery and growth can take place. Hence, dextose provides the best way to get nutrients to muscle cells, aside from injecting insulin, which is really not advisable.




Not quite sure I agree with all that conventional wisdom... 




> Determinants of post-exercise glycogen synthesis during short-term recovery.





> Jentjens R, Jeukendrup A.
> 
> Human Performance Laboratory, School of Sport and Exercise Sciences, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham, UK.
> 
> The pattern of muscle glycogen synthesis following glycogen-depleting exercise occurs in two phases. *Initially, there is a period of rapid synthesis of muscle glycogen that does not require the presence of insulin and lasts about 30-60 minutes. This rapid phase of muscle glycogen synthesis is characterised by an exercise-induced translocation of glucose transporter carrier protein-4 to the cell surface, leading to an increased permeability of the muscle membrane to glucose*. Following this rapid phase of glycogen synthesis, muscle glycogen synthesis occurs at a much slower rate and this phase can last for several hours. Both muscle contraction and insulin have been shown to increase the activity of glycogen synthase, the rate-limiting enzyme in glycogen synthesis. Furthermore, it has been shown that muscle glycogen concentration is a potent regulator of glycogen synthase. Low muscle glycogen concentrations following exercise are associated with an increased rate of glucose transport and an increased capacity to convert glucose into glycogen.The highest muscle glycogen synthesis rates have been reported when large amounts of carbohydrate (1.0-1.85 g/kg/h) are consumed immediately post-exercise and at 15-60 minute intervals thereafter, for up to 5 hours post-exercise. When carbohydrate ingestion is delayed by several hours, this may lead to ~50% lower rates of muscle glycogen synthesis. The addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins to a carbohydrate supplement can increase muscle glycogen synthesis rates, most probably because of an enhanced insulin response. However, when carbohydrate intake is high (>/=1.2 g/kg/h) and provided at regular intervals, a further increase in insulin concentrations by additional supplementation of protein and/or amino acids does not further increase the rate of muscle glycogen synthesis. Thus, when carbohydrate intake is insufficient (<1.2 g/kg/h), the addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins may be beneficial for muscle glycogen synthesis. Furthermore, ingestion of insulinotropic protein and/or amino acid mixtures might stimulate post-exercise net muscle protein anabolism. Suggestions have been made that carbohydrate availability is the main limiting factor for glycogen synthesis. *A large part of the ingested glucose that enters the bloodstream appears to be extracted by tissues other than the exercise muscle (i.e. liver, other muscle groups or fat tissue) and may therefore limit the amount of glucose available to maximise muscle glycogen synthesis rates*. Furthermore, intestinal glucose absorption may also be a rate-limiting factor for muscle glycogen synthesis when large quantities (>1 g/min) of glucose are ingested following exercise.


 



> Carbohydrate nutrition before, during, and after exercise.





> Costill DL.
> 
> The role of dietary carbohydrates (CHO) in the resynthesis of muscle and liver glycogen after prolonged, exhaustive exercise has been clearly demonstrated. The mechanisms responsible for optimal glycogen storage are linked to the activation of glycogen synthetase by depletion of glycogen and the subsequent intake of CHO. Although diets rich in CHO may increase the muscle glycogen stores and enhance endurance exercise performance when consumed in the days before the activity, they also increase the rate of CHO oxidation and the use of muscle glycogen. When consumed in the last hour before exercise, the insulin stimulated-uptake of glucose from blood often results in hypoglycemia, greater dependence on muscle glycogen, and an earlier onset of exhaustion than when no CHO is fed. Ingesting CHO during exercise appears to be of minimal value to performance except in events lasting 2 h or longer. *The form of CHO (i.e., glucose, fructose, sucrose) ingested may produce different blood glucose and insulin responses, but the rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis is about the same regardless of the structure.*


 


And finally, in the words of (I think) Bobo:-




> The bottom line was that insulin infusion increased muscle protein syntheses via its effects on vasodilation, which in turn caused a greater rate of amino acid deliver to muscle tissue under resting conditions.





> *Post-exercise, when blood flow to muscles was already enhanced, insulin infusion had no further effect on protein synthesis. Thus, the idea that insulin spikes are anabolic in during post-workout conditions appears to be a myth*, although there is still room for the anti-catabolic effects of insulin in the post workout state; however, the real-world significance of this for weight trainers is questionable.


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## Sir Savage (Dec 2, 2005)

red, I think your study illustrates my point quite nicely.



			
				redspy said:
			
		

> Determinants of post-exercise glycogen synthesis during short-term recovery.
> 
> Jentjens R, Jeukendrup A.
> 
> ...



So while insulin is not _required_, it does seem to _enhance_ the process of glycogen synthesis via its effects on the rate-limiting enzyme glycogen synthase.


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## redspy (Dec 2, 2005)

Sir Savage said:
			
		

> So while insulin is not _required_, it does seem to _enhance_ the process of glycogen synthesis via its effects on the rate-limiting enzyme glycogen synthase.


I wasn't primarily trying to diminish the role of insulin, however, my point was that I don't think dextrose is the Holy Grail of PWO that some people contend.  Personally I prefer oatmeal PWO, but I agree there's substantial data supporting your point.


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## dougnukem (Dec 2, 2005)

All that I know is, I just added some dextrose to my whey drink for the first time, and man, it tastes ten times better!  What a fool I've been this whole time, never doing this.


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## musclepump (Dec 2, 2005)

dougnukem said:
			
		

> All that I know is, I just added some dextrose to my whey drink for the first time, and man, it tastes ten times better! What a fool I've been this whole time, never doing this.


I'm with you on that. Now that I've had it with some sugar, it's hard to restrain myself from adding dextrose to the shakes I have away from my workouts!


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## Flakko (Dec 2, 2005)

Question
 What about maltodextrin?


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## Pirate! (Dec 2, 2005)

Flakko said:
			
		

> Question
> What about maltodextrin?


It can be used instead of dextrose for the same reasons. It doesn't taste as sweet or mix as well as dextrose, IMO.


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## Flakko (Dec 2, 2005)

I use both in my Post w/o shake. Also, I use about the same amount of each and it's true, maltodextrin is not as sweet as dextrose, but the one I use (proteinfactory.com) mixes well. Also, I'm using a carb product that they have. It's suppose to be absorbed much faster. It's Hydrolized Rice Syrup. 
But I was confused, because I thought Maltodextrin was slowly absorbed while dextrose was quickly absorbed by the body.


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## FishOrCutBait (Dec 2, 2005)

Maltodextrin is more slowly absorbed than dextrose, not necessarilly slowly absorbed, though.


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## KentDog (Dec 3, 2005)

hey piratefromhell, where do you buy your dextrose for that price?


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## Pirate! (Dec 6, 2005)

KentDog said:
			
		

> hey piratefromhell, where do you buy your dextrose for that price?


http://www.store.honeyvillegrain.com/browseproducts/Dextrose-50-LB.html


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## juggernaut (Dec 6, 2005)

what about adding BOTH oats and Dextro to PWO drink? Anyone?


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## strongpointe85 (Dec 8, 2005)

How many pwo shakes can you get out of a 2lb bad of dextrose if you use 50g of it per shake


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## dougnukem (Dec 8, 2005)

strongpointe85 said:
			
		

> How many pwo shakes can you get out of a 2lb bad of dextrose if you use 50g of it per shake



Try
www.onlineconversion.com


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## KentDog (Dec 8, 2005)

juggernaut said:
			
		

> what about adding BOTH oats and Dextro to PWO drink? Anyone?



I'm going to start doing this soon. I may also keep in a banana. Just make sure the carb-protein ratio remains consistant.


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## Curlingcadys (Dec 8, 2005)

redspy said:
			
		

> I wasn't primarily trying to diminish the role of insulin, however, my point was that *I don't think dextrose is the Holy Grail of PWO that some people contend.*  Personally I prefer oatmeal PWO, but I agree there's substantial data supporting your point.



agreed I'll stick to my oats as well, I've done just fine without dex, spend the money on food.


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## drew.haynes (Dec 16, 2005)

Curlingcadys said:
			
		

> agreed I'll stick to my oats as well, I've done just fine without dex, spend the money on food.



Idk how much of an issue the "money" should be... since dextrose is about a dollar a pound.


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## Curlingcadys (Dec 16, 2005)

drew.haynes said:
			
		

> Idk how much of an issue the "money" should be... since dextrose is about a dollar a pound.



very true, I don't know I just don't feel its necessary to have a cabinet with 85 different bottles of shit, give me some protien,creatine,multi,and fish/flax caps and FOOD and lets get on with it no need to buy up every little thing that could/may/might/kind of help "you" in this way or that, shut the fuck up take the necessities eat and lift. (I'm just making a statement not directly speaking to you or anyone else.)


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