# Which pill (if any) should I take?



## N_I_C_K (Apr 4, 2010)

Right now my family bought a whole bunch of pills called 'Catalyst' a product of Advocare. The people who sold it to us made it sound really good, but that's how the get people to buy it, and I heard differently. Now some of my friends are taking these creatine pills which I know creatine makes your muscle bigger and adds water to your muscle (is this true) but might not help definition.

I'm all about definition, I don't care about my strength as much because now that I've gotten back into working out very frequently I'm getting a ton stronger every week. So which of these pills will increase definition if I had to take one?

Also, would it be bad if I took both of them at the same time?


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## jcar1016 (Apr 4, 2010)

N_I_C_K said:


> Right now my family bought a whole bunch of pills called 'Catalyst' a product of Advocare. The people who sold it to us made it sound really good, but that's how the get people to buy it, and I heard differently. Now some of my friends are taking these creatine pills which I know creatine makes your muscle bigger and adds water to your muscle (is this true) but might not help definition.
> 
> I'm all about definition, I don't care about my strength as much because now that I've gotten back into working out very frequently I'm getting a ton stronger every week. So which of these pills will increase definition if I had to take one?
> 
> Also, would it be bad if I took both of them at the same time?


 Never heard of the catalyst whats in it?  Creatine will add a little water and strength.  The water usually isnt that bad but I have heard of people haveing some trouble with it.


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## N_I_C_K (Apr 5, 2010)

Well the people I talked to said Catalyst tightens skin, increases definition, and provides fuel for muscles.

I asked what it was on here and someone said "All Catalyst is, is a bunch of BCAA's." Which I think he said meant brand chain amino acids.


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## jcar1016 (Apr 5, 2010)

N_I_C_K said:


> Well the people I talked to said Catalyst tightens skin, increases definition, and provides fuel for muscles.
> 
> I asked what it was on here and someone said "All Catalyst is, is a bunch of BCAA's." Which I think he said meant brand chain amino acids.


 Yeah thats what bcaa is. you can take em both together wont hurt anything.  In the future though go to a supplement store you can get a month worth of bcaa's for less than $10


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## nni (Apr 5, 2010)

Key Ingredients: Branched-chain amino acids (BCAA), L-glutamine, L-arginine, betaine, taurine 

hope it wasnt expensive. wont help with definition. creatine doesnt work quite the way you said, but bloat is common and will not help with definition either.


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## N_I_C_K (Apr 5, 2010)

nni said:


> Key Ingredients: Branched-chain amino acids (BCAA), L-glutamine, L-arginine, betaine, taurine
> 
> hope it wasnt expensive. wont help with definition. creatine doesnt work quite the way you said, but bloat is common and will not help with definition either.



Is there any pill that will help with definition?


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## Marat (Apr 5, 2010)

N_I_C_K said:


> Is there any pill that will help with definition?



Definition is essentially inversely proportional to body fat percentage. As your body fat percentage goes down, your definition increases.

There is no pill that will decrease your body fat percentage on it's own --- BF% is a matter of diet.


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## N_I_C_K (Apr 5, 2010)

m11 said:


> Definition is essentially inversely proportional to body fat percentage. As your body fat percentage goes down, your definition increases.
> 
> There is no pill that will decrease your body fat percentage on it's own --- BF% is a matter of diet.




Alright, I just figured there would be something to help my diet. Like a little bit of a boost.

Oh well. 

Okay I've got one more question. What are the best pills, pre-workout, and post-workout products to take to increase strength for a 16 year old.


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## Marat (Apr 5, 2010)

I highly urge you to ensure that your diet and training is in order. You will see absolutely no results if these two factors (as well as proper rest) aren't in place first. No supplements will give you any results without a foundation of diet and training.

To answer your question:
A serving of creatine monohydrate  is sufficient. Take it anytime, once a day, everday.

I generally recommend that particular product because it is micronized --- the particles are smaller than typical CM and therefore will dissolve more readily. Any creatine monohydrate will be just as effective.


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## nni (Apr 5, 2010)

16 year olds should only be taking protein. work on your diet, that is where results come from.


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## N_I_C_K (Apr 5, 2010)

My diet is good, so is my training. I've modified my training and now I can definitely tell I'm getting stronger. Now my diet was good. I lost about 14 pounds since mid to late January. But now that I'm about 165 I can't seem to drop anymore and I haven't changed my diet at all.....I've actually had no junk food on weekends now, when I used to have a fair amount. I'm stuck at 165. Is it because I'm putting on as much weight in muscle as I'm losing fat or what? 

@nni: Protein and creatine is what I'm taking now so I'm doing it right. Well I'm taking those Catalyst still but just to get rid of them. Now that I know they don't do much I'll finish them off than not buy anymore. 

But there is a product called 'Afterglow' that I've heard is really good and has protein in it. What is the difference between products like that and normal whey protein?


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## Marat (Apr 5, 2010)

AfterGlow contains KreAlkyln. Besides that, it looks like anything else.

What do your macros look like and what is your maintenance?


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## N_I_C_K (Apr 6, 2010)

m11 said:


> AfterGlow contains KreAlkyln. Besides that, it looks like anything else.
> 
> What do your macros look like and what is your maintenance?



What is KreAlkyln? 

I don't know what a macro is, sorry. If you can tell me what it is I'll tell you what they look like.

By maintenance do you mean like what I eat and stuff after working out or what?


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## N_I_C_K (Apr 7, 2010)

Anyone know what KreAlkyln is?


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## Marat (Apr 7, 2010)

It's a form of creatine. Because their isn't much (probably none) research on it's efficacy, creatine monohydrate is still essentially superior. Because it an ingredient in that protein powder, it drives the price up.

'Macros' are macronutrients -- protein, fat, and carbohydrates. maintenance is the amount of calories that you need to consume in order to maintain one's current bodyweight.


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## SupplementMAN (Jul 28, 2010)

*Your Problem.*



N_I_C_K said:


> My diet is good, so is my training. I've modified my training and now I can definitely tell I'm getting stronger. Now my diet was good. I lost about 14 pounds since mid to late January. But now that I'm about 165 I can't seem to drop anymore and I haven't changed my diet at all.....I've actually had no junk food on weekends now, when I used to have a fair amount. I'm stuck at 165. Is it because I'm putting on as much weight in muscle as I'm losing fat or what?
> 
> @nni: Protein and creatine is what I'm taking now so I'm doing it right. Well I'm taking those Catalyst still but just to get rid of them. Now that I know they don't do much I'll finish them off than not buy anymore.
> 
> But there is a product called 'Afterglow' that I've heard is really good and has protein in it. What is the difference between products like that and normal whey protein?



Alright I have read all of your posts and its making me think you did little to no research about the catalyst you are so unhappy with. The catalyst itself is a great supplement. There is no other pill on the market that will give you BCAA, L-glutamine, L-arginine, betaine, taurine. These are ALL essential to muscle growth. Your BCAA is the building blocks to muscle growth, and the other ingredients are to assist in muscle recovery. Now if you would have done your research then you would know that the catalyst is to be taken with Advocares Spark Energy Drink and one of the Metabolic Nutrition Systems.. 

Do research next time please.


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## N_I_C_K (Jul 29, 2010)

SupplementMAN said:


> Alright I have read all of your posts and its making me think you did little to no research about the catalyst you are so unhappy with. The catalyst itself is a great supplement. There is no other pill on the market that will give you BCAA, L-glutamine, L-arginine, betaine, taurine. These are ALL essential to muscle growth. Your BCAA is the building blocks to muscle growth, and the other ingredients are to assist in muscle recovery. Now if you would have done your research then you would know that the catalyst is to be taken with Advocares Spark Energy Drink and one of the Metabolic Nutrition Systems..
> 
> Do research next time please.



I went to some Advocare sales meeting at a friends house and they said nothing about taking it with either of those....Plus that's like over $100 worth of shit I don't NEED. I'm pretty sure my protein has all of those in it plus 45 grams of protein and it's like $10 more than the pills. I'll stick with my protein.

You sound like you work for Advocare.


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## SupplementMAN (Jul 29, 2010)

N_I_C_K said:


> I went to some Advocare sales meeting at a friends house and they said nothing about taking it with either of those....Plus that's like over $100 worth of shit I don't NEED. I'm pretty sure my protein has all of those in it plus 45 grams of protein and it's like $10 more than the pills. I'll stick with my protein.
> 
> You sound like you work for Advocare.



Those products were made to work in unison, one supplements the other raising growth exponentially. The catalyst is one of the best supplemental pills out there. You will not find another pill that has the L-arginine along with glutamine. How much is one serving for your protein? I bet its 2 heaping scoops 3 to 4 times a day am I right? If I am then heres another problem.. Did you know that your body only takes in so much of ANYTHING at a time. Your defecating more than half of your protein out if you take the recommended dosage. If you want a PURE supplement and great results go with Advocare. Otherwise your spending your money on trace amounts of what you think your actually getting.. 

Look in the nutritional facts area and see if you see something called Proprietary Blend.. What that is, is very minute amounts of the actual working supplement you want. Your paying for fillers!


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## Built (Jul 30, 2010)

SupplementMAN said:


> Those products were made to work in unison, one supplements the other raising growth exponentially.


WOW. 


SupplementMAN said:


> The catalyst is one of the best supplemental pills out there. You will not find another pill that has the L-arginine along with glutamine.


Again. WOW. 


SupplementMAN said:


> How much is one serving for your protein? I bet its 2 heaping scoops 3 to 4 times a day am I right? If I am then heres another problem.. Did you know that your body only takes in so much of ANYTHING at a time. *Your (sic) defecating more than half of your protein out if you take the recommended dosage.*


You have to be kidding me. What do you base this on - do you have even a single shred of evidence for this outrageous claim?


SupplementMAN said:


> If you want a PURE supplement and great results go with Advocare. Otherwise your spending your money on trace amounts of what you think your actually getting..


Ah, there we go. THANK GOD WE HAVE YOU TO TELL US THE TRUTH! Otherwise, this poor kid would have to eat meat, eggs and milk for his protein ("no!")





SupplementMAN said:


> Look in the nutritional facts area and see if you see something called Proprietary Blend.. What that is, is very minute amounts of the actual working supplement you want. Your paying for fillers!



Finally, you DO speak the truth. This last statement is right on the money.


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## WeightGainNet (Jul 30, 2010)

N_I_C_K said:


> Right now my family bought a whole bunch of pills called 'Catalyst' a product of Advocare. The people who sold it to us made it sound really good, but that's how the get people to buy it, and I heard differently. Now some of my friends are taking these creatine pills which I know creatine makes your muscle bigger and adds water to your muscle (is this true) but might not help definition.
> 
> I'm all about definition, I don't care about my strength as much because now that I've gotten back into working out very frequently I'm getting a ton stronger every week. So which of these pills will increase definition if I had to take one?
> 
> Also, would it be bad if I took both of them at the same time?




If you're going to take creatine, don't bother taking the pills. They have a terrible absorption rate. Take the powder form. Any brand will do.

I've heard of Advocare and it's a Network Marketing/MLM company. These companies will take any product and make it sound like the cure-all.

In short, no product will make you have definition. It comes from dieting and exercising properly.


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## cheappinz (Jul 30, 2010)

I'm not familiar with these supplements but I can say anything that promotes water retention will obviously not help you look more defined.


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## nni (Jul 30, 2010)

SupplementMAN said:


> Those products were made to work in unison, one supplements the other raising growth exponentially. The catalyst is one of the best supplemental pills out there. You will not find another pill that has the L-arginine along with glutamine. How much is one serving for your protein? I bet its 2 heaping scoops 3 to 4 times a day am I right? If I am then heres another problem.. Did you know that your body only takes in so much of ANYTHING at a time. Your defecating more than half of your protein out if you take the recommended dosage. If you want a PURE supplement and great results go with Advocare. Otherwise your spending your money on trace amounts of what you think your actually getting..
> 
> Look in the nutritional facts area and see if you see something called Proprietary Blend.. What that is, is very minute amounts of the actual working supplement you want. Your paying for fillers!



arginine and glutamine are two of the most worthless supplements out there, so im glad they are both in the same pill, makes it easier to avoid. you are not defecating out the product, and that is not true at all. and your understanding of prop blends is awful. no one aspect of this post has any use.


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## N_I_C_K (Jul 30, 2010)

SupplementMAN said:


> Those products were made to work in unison, one supplements the other raising growth exponentially. The catalyst is one of the best supplemental pills out there. You will not find another pill that has the L-arginine along with glutamine. How much is one serving for your protein? I bet its 2 heaping scoops 3 to 4 times a day am I right? If I am then heres another problem.. Did you know that your body only takes in so much of ANYTHING at a time. Your defecating more than half of your protein out if you take the recommended dosage. If you want a PURE supplement and great results go with Advocare. Otherwise your spending your money on trace amounts of what you think your actually getting..




Your an idiot.

I hope you realize that what you're saying is going against everything I've heard of AND learned from this website. Not to mention other online research I've done.

Try *1* scoop *1* times a day with *45* grams of protein. I'll take a picture of the nutrition facts if you want proof. Once again, I've done research and from what I was told 60 grams of protein is around how much your body can take in at a time.



WeightGainNet said:


> If you're going to take creatine, don't  bother taking the pills. They have a terrible absorption rate. Take the  powder form. Any brand will do.
> 
> I've heard of Advocare and it's a Network Marketing/MLM company. These  companies will take any product and make it sound like the cure-all.
> 
> In short, no product will make you have definition. It comes from dieting and exercising properly.


I have a thing of creatine powder that I'm taking now. Yeah Advocare is totally like that, and this guy sounds exactly like one of the reps I talked to. Thanks, I've been told that before many times. I just want to get ripped overnight (impossible I know) so if I hear about a product I always want it because of its supposed benefits even though I know most of the products are bullshit marketing.


I'm telling you guys, he works for Advocare. I have little to no doubt about it.


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## SupplementMAN (Jul 30, 2010)

Built said:


> WOW.
> 
> Again. WOW.
> 
> ...




You really have to be an idiot to not know this .. Protein supplements from GNC are low grade proteins that are very hard for your body to digest. If you do not take some vitamins to help aid your digestive system you will not be getting all of the protein in your body you just ingested. The main digestive enzymes for this are papain and bromelain.. Does your protein have those two ingredients? 
    Your body will only consume 20 - 30 grams a day. Given that is the average person not someone who is a body builder. Which I'm sure you probably are. Either way you will not get 100% absorption with your protein. You will have a lot of your protein in your stool at the end of the day. 
    Every shit a brick? Why do you think that is?? Too much protein in your stool thats most likely why. Theres a few shreds of evidence 



Really?? Your asking me if I have evidence for this? Of course I have evidence, I wouldn't say anything unless I did. 

       We'll go to your meat, eggs, and mill protein remark first since its the one that really irritates me and is the most disputed one. 

                 It is nearly impossible to consume enough protein through your diet without also consuming excess calories, fats and carbohydrates.. Did you know that?? I hope so.. You want protein I'm assuming so we'll look at Advocares Muscle Gain.. Since we are disputing Advocares products this is why I chose this..
  Muscle Gain has per serving 25 grams of pre digested protein. Which makes it easy to absorb into the body. 

Key Ingredients;
Protein blend, carbohydrates, papain, bromelain, vitamin C, thiamine (B-1), riboflavin (B-2), niacin, pantothenic acid (B-5), calcium, magnesium, branched-chain amino acids


I don't know if your being sarcastic or not but this statement is very true F.Y.I.. You should know that.


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## N_I_C_K (Jul 30, 2010)

SupplementMAN said:


> Muscle Gain.. Since we are disputing Advocares products this is why I chose this..
> Muscle Gain has per serving 25 grams of* pre digested protein. Which makes it easy to absorb into the body. *
> 
> Key Ingredients;
> Protein blend, carbohydrates, papain, bromelain, vitamin C, thiamine (B-1), riboflavin (B-2), niacin, pantothenic acid (B-5), calcium, magnesium, branched-chain amino acids



That's exactly what the Advocare sales rep said to me! Ironic how it was word for word, the same as what you said.....You seem to know a lot about Advocare products. Weird....

I haven't been here that long or know a lot about the people on here, but it seems to me that whenever I have questions concerning my diet (in anyway, shape, or form) or anything about gaining definition/losing body fat, Built either comments on them and everyone agrees, or someone will tell me to ask Built. Not trying to kiss anyone's ass but Built has a lot of posative rep (no not referencing the rep # below her name) and you don't. Your going against everything that everyone says. You can keep arguing on here if you'd like, but I don't think anyone will listen to you. Especially over Built.


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## nni (Jul 30, 2010)

SupplementMAN said:


> You really have to be an idiot to not know this .. *Protein supplements from GNC are low grade proteins that are very hard for your body to digest.* If you do not take some vitamins to help aid your digestive system you will not be getting all of the protein in your body you just ingested. The main digestive enzymes for this are papain and bromelain.. Does your protein have those two ingredients?
> *    Your body will only consume 20 - 30 grams a day.* Given that is the average person not someone who is a body builder. Which I'm sure you probably are. Either way you will not get 100% absorption with your protein. You will have a lot of your protein in your stool at the end of the day.
> Every shit a brick? Why do you think that is?? Too much protein in your stool thats most likely why. Theres a few shreds of evidence
> 
> ...




please check the bold statements as the first two are absolutely wrong. the protein products available vary widely in quality and source and it is just an ignorant statement. the second bold comment is just wrong. i have no idea where you got that idea, but it is 100% wrong. the last comment i find funny. "pre digested" proteins are not uncommon at all, they are hydrolyzed proteins. what i find funny is the fact that the claim is made and the protein listed is "protein blend." listing the type of protein is necessary, so the label, as listed, is illegal.


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## Built (Jul 30, 2010)

SupplementMAN said:


> You really have to be an idiot to not know this .. Protein supplements from GNC are low grade proteins that are very hard for your body to digest. If you do not take some vitamins to help aid your digestive system you will not be getting all of the protein in your body you just ingested. The main digestive enzymes for this are papain and bromelain.. Does your protein have those two ingredients?



I must be an idiot, then: I eat steak, and it doesn't have bromelain or papain in it. I must have starved from malnutrition by now! I'm wasting away AS WE SPEAK!




SupplementMAN said:


> Your body will only consume 20 - 30 grams a day.



Oh please just stop, I'm laughing so hard I hurt. Actually, it's a great a workout, please carry on. Tell me another debunked myth, like how we need to eat six meals a day to stimulate the metabolism! 



SupplementMAN said:


> Given that is the average person not someone who is a body builder. Which I'm sure you probably are. Either way you will not get 100% absorption with your protein. You will have a lot of your protein in your stool at the end of the day.
> Every shit a brick? Why do you think that is?? Too much protein in your stool thats most likely why. Theres a few shreds of evidence


Um, you spend WAY too much time on ratemypoo.com, and not enough time reading peer-reviewed research. Allow me to introduce you to pubmed. While you're there, find me some peer-reviewed evidence of your claims. You might be right, I'll read it if you post it. 

Otherwise, without backup, your statements lack substance. Bricks or no. 




SupplementMAN said:


> Really?? Your asking me if I have evidence for this? Of course I have evidence, I wouldn't say anything unless I did.


Excellent. I await evidence. 



SupplementMAN said:


> We'll go to your meat, eggs, and mill protein remark first since its the one that really irritates me and is the most disputed one.
> 
> It is nearly impossible to consume enough protein through your diet without also consuming excess calories, fats and carbohydrates..



I do it every day. I carry about 120 lbs of lean mass, and this was what I ate yesterday, WHILE DIETING:

1839 calories, 153g protein, 103g fat, 83g carb, 29g from fibre. 

This represents a caloric deficit of about 500 calories a day for me, and my protein and fat intake are both well above the minimum guidelines I follow -and I even had room for some chocolate. No protein supplements. Just food. 

Food Name Amount Unit Cals Carb Fat Prot 
*Total 1,839* 82.8 102.9 152.8 
Butter 0.33 tablespoon 34 0.0 3.8 0.0 
Walnuts 1 oz (14 halves) 185 3.9 18.5 4.3 
salad dressing 1 tablespoon 79 0.9 8.5 0.3 
Fish oil, salmon 10 grams 90 0.0 10.0 0.0 
Egg, whole, raw 2 large 143 0.8 9.9 12.6 
Liberté Greek 0% fat 50 grams 31 1.7 0.1 5.7 
Beans, string, green, raw 1 cup 34 7.8 0.1 2.0 
poached chicken breast 240 grams 350 0.0 4.0 73.0 
Lettuce, cos or romaine, raw 2 cup shredded 16 3.1 0.3 1.2 
Cucumber, raw 0.5 small (6-3/8" long) 9 1.7 0.1 0.5 
Avocado, flesh only 5 oz 235 12.1 20.8 2.8 
1% Cottage Cheese 200 grams 160 9.6 2.4 25.6 
Liberté Méditerranée 10% fat 150 grams 189 7.7 15.4 6.0 
Tuna, canned 2 oz 66 0.0 0.5 14.5 
Raspberries, raw 100 grams 52 11.9 0.7 1.2 
1 square of LARGE Lindt Dark Bar - 40 squares 2 serving 80 8.0 4.5 1.0 
Halvah, plain 10 grams 52 5.8 3.2 0.8 
Cabbage, green, raw 1 cup 22 5.2 0.1 1.1 
Carrots, raw 0.25 cup 11 2.6 0.1 0.3 
  Total 1,839 82.8 102.9 152.8 




SupplementMAN said:


> Did you know that?? I hope so.. You want protein I'm assuming so we'll look at Advocares Muscle Gain.. Since we are disputing Advocares products this is why I chose this..
> Muscle Gain has per serving 25 grams of pre digested protein. Which makes it easy to absorb into the body.
> 
> Key Ingredients;
> ...



Yep, I feel very owned right now.  

That last one, I wasn't being sarcastic btw. I thought I was pretty clear with that one.


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## Built (Jul 30, 2010)

N_I_C_K said:


> That's exactly what the Advocare sales rep said to me! Ironic how it was word for word, the same as what you said.....You seem to know a lot about Advocare products. Weird....



Good job. That's one of the ways to tell. 



N_I_C_K said:


> I haven't been here that long or know a lot about the people on here, but it seems to me that whenever I have questions concerning my diet (in anyway, shape, or form) or anything about gaining definition/losing body fat, Built either comments on them and everyone agrees, or someone will tell me to ask Built. Not trying to kiss anyone's ass but Built has a lot of posative rep (no not referencing the rep # below her name) and you don't. Your going against everything that everyone says. You can keep arguing on here if you'd like, but I don't think anyone will listen to you. Especially over Built.


N_I_C_K, thank you for the props, but I'm sometimes wrong, too. I like to see evidence when folks post up claims, and I see now that you do as well. 

Good. That goes for claims I make, too. You see anybody - me included - posting something up without proof, you're more than welcome to ask for backup.  I'm pretty careful about providing it, and unless it's someone's opinion (which is fine, it's just not proof), I'm pretty relentless about demanding it.


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