# back/biceps or back/triceps?



## squanto (Jan 24, 2004)

this is the routine ive just started:
mon: chest/shoulders/triceps, abs
wed: legs, abs
fri: back/biceps, abs

i heard that it might be better to do back/triceps on the same day... but that doesnt seem to make sense to me, as a lot of my back exercises use biceps, and chest exercises use triceps? if i switched it up to bakc/triceps and chest/biceps, would it be likely that id be overtraining my biceps and triceps, as i would be working them twice a week? would it make any noticible difference at all? thanks.


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## Monolith (Jan 24, 2004)

It depends on if you want to pre-exhaust the biceps or not.  Personally, i prefer not to.


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## firestorm (Jan 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by squanto *_
> this is the routine ive just started:
> mon: chest/shoulders/triceps, abs
> wed: legs, abs
> ...



Ok what your talking about are 2 different training phylosophies.  One being the Push/Pull method and the other the  pull/pull method.  In short is all up to preference. No matter how you look at it, if you do back your secondary muscles being hit are your bis  Pulling excercises such as rows, pullups etc tax the biceps.  Pushing (bench press) hit the triceps so no matter how you split it up,  bis and tris get hit twice regardless.  the only decision is, do you want to really blast biceps on back day or are you really looking to put on arm size and want to give them a break before really hitting them.  
The way you split up your routine Push/push on monday  and pull pull on Friday, if you reversed the split it wouldn't matter because your giving your arms several days break in between.  Keep in mind your hitting those muscles as secondary muscle groups when you do back and Chest so it isn't going to tax them as much as when you actually work them as a primary.  
In short either way works as long as you have those couple of days break in between.


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## squanto (Jan 24, 2004)

thanks that helps. just one question tho... what did u mean about putting on arm size though? if i do chest-tris and back-bis would that would that be better for arm size? arm size is what i care about the most of all.


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## firestorm (Jan 24, 2004)

OK as mentioned above by Mono, you will pre-exhaust the bis on chest day and tris or Chest day.  This means you basically did a mini workout for them prior to doing their primary workout for the week.  I would suggest that since you are currently doing the opposite (chest/bis; back/tris,, log down your sets and lifts.   On your next workouts do the push/push pull/pull method and take note of your reps and poundage.  I can safely say they will not be as optimum as they were on the other split when the muscles are fresher.
If you are really looking for massive arms, I'd suggest what I for one do.  I prioritize my training by placing arms on their own day.  day 1:Chest,  2: Back(and maybe shoulders if time permits), 3: legs.  day 4 arms  day 5 shoulders if I didnt get them in on back day.     6 and 7 off.


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## M.J.H. (Jan 24, 2004)

I personally have always preferred chest/triceps and back/biceps, but that's just me. When I hit my biceps indirectly on back day and then again directly on chest day, I feel like I am overtraining them like crazy. For me it's always best to hit your biceps when they're already warmed up, after rows, etc.


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## firestorm (Jan 24, 2004)

for the record: regarding gains from my split version and GOPROS POWER, REP RANGE, SHOCK workout, these are my stats from this past September 29th thru November 1st and 01/08.

................09/29...............11/01
chest: .......47 1/2".............49
upper arm:..16 1/4".............17 1/2
forarms:......13 1/2.............14 1/2


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## M.J.H. (Jan 24, 2004)

> for the record: regarding gains from my split version and GOPROS POWER, REP RANGE, SHOCK workout, these are my stats from this past November 1st and 01/08.
> chest: 47 1/2".............49
> upper arm: 16 1/4".....17 1/2
> forarms: 13 1/2...........14 1/2


Woah, what the hell? 

What is this firestorm? Your gains following gopro's program P-RR-S routine? I have heard good things about this program, but daayyyuummm man! Those are sick gains. 

What kind of split were you following?


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## firestorm (Jan 24, 2004)

MonStar,, I have kept a full training log in the Journal section.  Here is the link to it.  And also, I'm not exaggerating my gains since all the online competitors in this contest had to submit before pictures, halfway pictures and then finally the after pictures for this contest.  
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21333


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## M.J.H. (Jan 24, 2004)

Okay firestorm, thanks man, I am going to check it out right now.


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## firestorm (Jan 24, 2004)

Ok my man. Please do.  Any questions blast em away.


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## M.J.H. (Jan 24, 2004)

Damn that journal is way too much talking and not enough journal entries, lol. 

Do you have AIM firestorm?


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## firestorm (Jan 24, 2004)

I know lots of whoring in there.  I've requested people to keep the chatting down but there is little control.   What is AIM?


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## firestorm (Jan 24, 2004)

Hey MonStar,, I just took a look at your pics.  LOOKING DAMN GOOD THERE MY MAN!!!!  Excellent job.


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## heeholler (Jan 24, 2004)

squanto there are many different routines that you can do, First of all, getting big arms is not just doing bi's & tri's. To grow big in arms you must do other things like squats, deads, benches power cleans, ect.. Core exercises. You gain LBM all over. And most important, DIET is what will make you grow. 
Also, remember to keep switching up your exercise routine so your muscle wont adapt to the same routine over and over. Change the way you do your sets. For example, bench press first then incline bench. The next time you do chest, do incline bench first, then bench. Keep your muscles guessing. This goes for all exercises. And use dumbells intsaed of barbells to help you with stabilizer muscles. Many thing you have to learn to get them BIG ARMS.


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## M.J.H. (Jan 24, 2004)

AIM is just AOL Instant Messenger, nothing special. Go to AIM.com to download it, it's free. Similar to Yahoo MSG and MSN MSG, but a little easier to use if you ask me.


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## firestorm (Jan 24, 2004)

ohhh ok bro. I thought it was some new workout info that slipped by me. hahahahaha


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## M.J.H. (Jan 24, 2004)

LOL.  Nope, no new workout. Lemme know if you get it though, have some questions asked P-RR-S, thanks. 



> Hey MonStar,, I just took a look at your pics. LOOKING DAMN GOOD THERE MY MAN!!!! Excellent job.


Thanks for the kind words man, really appreciate it.


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## firestorm (Jan 24, 2004)

ok I have it now.   firestorm1075 is username


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## sara (Jan 24, 2004)

What if you doing this: 

Day 1- Back/Biceps
Day2- Off 
Day3- Chest/Triceps 
Day4- Off
Day5- Shoulders/ABS (some Biceps) 

OR

Back/Chest
Biceps/Triceps
Shoulders/ABS/some biceps


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## firestorm (Jan 24, 2004)

Sara, I've done them both and I liked them both although that second routine is a damn killer on  chest/back day if your training heavy.  I found that at my age 41 I would begin to loose some intensity on the 2nd bodypart and don't feel it was getting the full benifit but that is still a popular split.


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## sara (Jan 24, 2004)

firestorm, what you think of this ? 

Back/chest day :

 X4 wide grip lat pull down 
 X3 close grip row cable 
 X3 seated row machine 
 X4 DB chest press 
 X3 DB incline flye 
 X3 lever pec fly
 X3 machine chest press


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## sara (Jan 24, 2004)

Biceps/Triceps day: 

x 3 DB curls
x4 Barbell curl 
x3 Cable curls
x4 Seated biceps Machine curl
x4 DB extensions
x3 seated dip machine 
x3 press down machine 

Shoulders day: 

x4 DB Shoulder press
x3 DB lateral raise (standing) 
x3 DB lateral raise (bent) 
x3 DB upright row 
x3 DB front raise 
x3 DB Shrugs


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## derekisdman (Jan 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by firestorm *_
> for the record: regarding gains from my split version and GOPROS POWER, REP RANGE, SHOCK workout, these are my stats from this past September 29th thru November 1st and 01/08.
> 
> ................09/29...............11/01
> ...



Firestorm,

I know you used to be bigger many years ago and then lost some size; so wouldn't you attribute much of your fast gains to muscle memory?


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## firestorm (Jan 24, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by sara *_
> firestorm, what you think of this ?
> 
> Back/chest day :
> ...


This is very nice but for every other workout or 3rd workout.  I'd alternate the machine Bench presses and DB Bench press every other workout in the number 1 and number 2 postions and keeping the flies last.   Every 3rd workout placing the bench press last for change is a pretty good idea and I do something similar myself exept my 3rd workout it's a drop set.


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## firestorm (Jan 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by sara *_
> Biceps/Triceps day:
> 
> x 3 DB curls
> ...



Back is beautiful  Good workout


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## firestorm (Jan 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by derekisdman *_
> Firestorm,
> 
> I know you used to be bigger many years ago and then lost some size; so wouldn't you attribute much of your fast gains to muscle memory?



Very very good point Derek and I would absolutely attibute some of my gains to just that but,, I keep logs books from as far back as 1980 and to be totally honest with you,, this was not my 1st long layoff due to injury.  In the past after layoffs yes size came back as well as strength but honestly, never this quick and in fact, I haven't done pullups with weight around my waist in over 10 years.  I know for a fact I'm stronger now then I've been since going natural back in 1990.   Now honestly, I have no reason to sell Gopros workout expecially since it's free so I have no reason to fabricate anything or give credit where it isn't deserved.  I swear by the workout as well as my supplementation.  Good point though and you get 5 extra points for paying attention to details and my history. Your correct as you said, I was much bigger "many" years ago but I was also bigger then I am now and had better detail as short a time as 1 year ago.  If you go to the old member picture section there are some older pics of me prior to my shoulder injury.  I know in those pics my arms were 18inchs.  I'm still under that.


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## derekisdman (Jan 25, 2004)

Yeah, I wasn't doubting Gopros routine at all...I know a lot of people here use it and swear by it.  I believe i'm going to give it a try here in a few weeks as well.  Either way, now or then, you're still a beast fire!


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## CowPimp (Jan 25, 2004)

You just shouldn't work out at all.  You are a loser.  You are never going to get anywhere.  Haha!  You know I'm kidding DDWN...


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## CowPimp (Jan 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by sara *_
> What if you doing this:
> 
> Day 1- Back/Biceps
> ...



What about legs?


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## firestorm (Jan 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by derekisdman *_
> Yeah, I wasn't doubting Gopros routine at all...I know a lot of people here use it and swear by it.  I believe i'm going to give it a try here in a few weeks as well.  Either way, now or then, you're still a beast fire!



Thanks big guy!!


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## sara (Jan 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by CowPimp *_
> What about legs?



I'm still waiting till next week for my X-rays on my toes, and if everything is back to normal.. I'll start to train my legs


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## sara (Jan 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by firestorm *_
> This is very nice but for every other workout or 3rd workout.  I'd alternate the machine Bench presses and DB Bench press every other workout in the number 1 and number 2 postions and keeping the flies last.   Every 3rd workout placing the bench press last for change is a pretty good idea and I do something similar myself exept my 3rd workout it's a drop set.



Are you saying that I should do either machine press or DB press on chest day? do I keep both flies workout last? (Incline flye and lever pec fly)?


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## firestorm (Jan 25, 2004)

no dear just the order in which you do them.  for example 
week one   DB bench press  3 x 6-8   Machine press  3x 6-8
Week 2  Incline Bench press (db or straight bar) DB Bench Press
Week 3  Machine Press  Incline Bench press

I'm assuming that Machine press mirrors a flat bench movement? If so yes then do them on different days.   It's like your doing flat bench 2 excercises in a row.   If the machine presses are more similar to an Incline movement then just alternate their order every other week.


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## sara (Jan 25, 2004)

ok


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## sara (Jan 25, 2004)

For the back workout, what's a T-Bar row?


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## firestorm (Jan 25, 2004)

Sara, if you want to get a real good idea of a workout plan you can look at the gopro workout routine Power/RepRange/Shock.  You can look at my Journal for most of my workouts since November 1st.  It is located under the Compitition Journal section.  If you'd like to look send me another ok and I'll give you the link.


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## firestorm (Jan 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by sara *_
> For the back workout, what's a T-Bar row?



T bar row is a  straight bar with a handle at the top which makes the bar resemble the letter T.  Your straddle the bar while standing on a platform and bend over grab the handles and pull towards your chest.  I'll try to find a picture of it for you.


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## firestorm (Jan 25, 2004)

http://members.core.com/~frank416/tbarrow.html

T-BAR ROWS  this is one type there are other models without the bench.


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## firestorm (Jan 25, 2004)

Ahhhhh here is a MUCH BETTER PICTURE OF THE T-BAR ROW BEING PERFORMED BY THE MAN.....Arnold.
http://tiger.towson.edu/users/blinz1/tbarrows.html

And one more picture Sara
http://members.aol.com/rascal999/tbar.htm


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## sara (Jan 26, 2004)

Thanx for all the links firestorm! unfortunatlly my gym doesn't have the T-bar.. are there any other alternatives?


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## Arnold (Jan 26, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by firestorm *_
> Ahhhhh here is a MUCH BETTER PICTURE OF THE T-BAR ROW BEING PERFORMED BY THE MAN.....Arnold.
> http://tiger.towson.edu/users/blinz1/tbarrows.html



although I am not sure that I would recommend rounding your back the way Arnold is in that pic.


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## firestorm (Jan 26, 2004)

I agree Prince but I was pointing out the equipment and I'm a fan of Arnie so I had to.  I just had to post it.


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## firestorm (Jan 26, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by sara *_
> Thanx for all the links firestorm! unfortunatlly my gym doesn't have the T-bar.. are there any other alternatives?



Actually YES there is an alternative.  You can actually buy an attachment that fits over the front end of an olympic bar and another piece that you slide the rear of the bar into. that keeps the bar on the ground.  I actually have one which is how I perform the excercise.  You can purchase the setup from http://www.fitnessfactory.com/catalog.cfm


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## BlueCorsair (Jan 26, 2004)

A great three day split I use is

Day 1: Chest/Bicep
Day 2: off
Day 3: Legs/Shoulders
Day 4: off
Day 5: Back/Tricep (abs)
Day 6/7: off

Personally, I found that chest exercises depleted my tri's *too* much. Same with back/bicep work - perhaps this is simply because I'm an ectomorph with FAR too many "slow-twitch" muscle fibres. At any rate, I ended up having to do lighter weights, fewer reps, and fewer sets on chest/tricep back/bicep days, so I swapped the biceps and triceps around. Now I can work each at almost maximum potential each time.


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## CowPimp (Jan 27, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by BlueCorsair *_
> A great three day split I use is
> 
> Day 1: Chest/Bicep
> ...



That is almost the same split I use.  The only differences are: one, I do abs on all three days and two, day 3 and 5 are switched for my schedule.  I really like the split a lot.  This is the beginning of my 3rd week on that routine, and I have already seen gains in every single lift.


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