# The "Official" Personal Trainers Thread



## PWGriffin (Sep 20, 2006)

I'm starting this thread because there are obviously quite a few trainers on this site and even a few with PhD's!!  I would love to see some training articles posted up, training philosophies, interesting studies being done....or just bitch about your boss or other stupid trainers like I do...

Also get advice on aspects of your clients training...I will be asking questions...

Post up issues you've had with clients and how you corrected them.  



First thing I've got right off is......well it finally happened...

My boss hurt someone.  They are going to the orthopedist and will likely never come back...blew their knee out...It was an older woman and he had her doing step ups onto a flat bench (kinda high up).  He had to help her up and to her car...she yelled at him and said she comes here so these kinds of things WON'T happen.  He told her it's probably just a "pinch"  

She called this morning and said her knee is huge...


----------



## ponyboy (Sep 20, 2006)

Hope he has his insurance paid up - she can sue him for basically a LOT of money.  That being said, I hope all of us who are trainers have our asses covered.  I've got automatic insurance through my certification body for $3 million if anything happens.  

He'll have to do a lot of explaining plus he just lost a customer never mind all the people she will tell.  That's why I always err on the side of caution, especially since I tend to deal with a lot of injured people.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 20, 2006)

ponyboy said:


> Hope he has his insurance paid up - she can sue him for basically a LOT of money.  That being said, I hope all of us who are trainers have our asses covered.  I've got automatic insurance through my certification body for $3 million if anything happens.
> 
> He'll have to do a lot of explaining plus he just lost a customer never mind all the people she will tell.  That's why I always err on the side of caution, especially since I tend to deal with a lot of injured people.



yeah I kinda hope she does sue him and put him out of business for good.  


First question of the thread


What kind of lower body movements do most of you guys use with say an older client/woman??

I have a lot of woman or new clients start with hip extensions for the glutes and hams..usually with their feet on a swiss ball to increase the ROM.  It's actually not as easy as it sounds and it seems to me to be a very safe alternative to deadlifts for older clients or people with a history of back problems.  Maybe bodyweight/Medicine ball squats or a lunge of some sort.  All my clients absolutely HATE walking lunges   I sometimes threaten them with them.

Poneyboy....is ur sig a dave ramsey quote??


----------



## luisfigo_benfic (Sep 20, 2006)

I do alot of isolations movement with my clients, if theyre limited with their abilities then i have them do alot of easy stuff on cables, (hip adduction) seated knee raises, (ankle weights) Ball squats with stab. ball ,etc.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 20, 2006)

So I was asked to visit another studio and fill in for someone monday night.  Very interesting, I trained 4 doctors in a row.  One of these guys was 65 and could CLEANLY do 15 pull ups.  

So all the doctors have been coming for quite sometime and my guess is they are quite accustomed to their training...

One guy tells me he comes twice a week and the workout goes like this..upper body......rest....upper body...

next guy is huge...pretty strong lifts for a 40 year old doctor right...I made a terrible mistake and assumed that he knew how to squat...this doesn't mean that i put 225 on there and said have fun....I put a quarter on each side....and it was the worst squat I have ever seen...I stopped him shortly after he started.  His heels came off the ground IMMEDIATELY even though he barely reached the quarter squat height and he looked as if he was having a hard time balancing himself...wow.  Back to basics for this guy...I have to help his posterior chain catch up with his quads (he has mostly been doing leg presses/hack squats/leg extensions and that's it I can bet) and probably work on ankle mobility and hip flexibility....he's very tight..


----------



## Deeznuts (Sep 20, 2006)

Stray away from compound movements with elderly and beginners.

As far as the knee situation, this is why we have liability forms. However, having an elderly woman do step ups at a 1 1/2 ft. verical isn't real smart. You need to learn your client's limitations and abilities as well as your own before pushing them.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 20, 2006)

Deeznuts said:


> Stray away from compound movements with elderly and beginners.
> 
> As far as the knee situation, this is why we have liability forms. However, having an elderly woman do step ups at a 1 1/2 ft. verical isn't real smart. You need to learn your client's limitations and abilities as well as your own before pushing them.



You say stray from compound movements with ederly and beginners...do you mean all compound movements or heavy lower body movements like squats and deadlifts?  I don't have any new clients doing heavy deadlifts or put them under a bar to squat...but we do light dumbell work right away, do you tihnk that's bad??  I'm talkin 10-15lbs...teach them how to push and pull...maybe some cable work...throw in a couple bodyweight movements...maybe an aerobic exercise and some core work...


----------



## ponyboy (Sep 20, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> You say stray from compound movements with ederly and beginners...do you mean all compound movements or heavy lower body movements like squats and deadlifts?  I don't have any new clients doing heavy deadlifts or put them under a bar to squat...but we do light dumbell work right away, do you tihnk that's bad??  I'm talkin 10-15lbs...teach them how to push and pull...maybe some cable work...throw in a couple bodyweight movements...maybe an aerobic exercise and some core work...



Especially with elderly or rank beginner clients I'll make sure they have their movement patterns down fundamentally first with either very light resistance or bodyweight only.  Push, pull, squat, lunge (if they can do single leg movements) bend and twist, plus depending on the person flexion and extension of the torso.  Especially with the elderly I find doing movements that they will have to do regularly makes a difference plus easy balancing for their CNS.  This can be as simple as doing a push-up against a wall for some because they are completely detrained, and doing squats with a ball behind their back so they don't have to worry about balance and only moving within their functional range of motion.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 20, 2006)

With nearly all of the elderly I work with, static stretching comes first.  I have yet to find an elderly person who like stretching after, and most fell that stretching before make the day better.

I love training Dr's.  You would think they could figure out how to apply that stuff, but most of them come to you and say, "You are the expert, have at it." and the ones who have pre-conceived notions lose them quickly.


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 20, 2006)

In terms of stuff for the posterior chain for older people, I like supine bridge variations a lot.  Birddogs are a great place to start if they can do these, or at least just extending the hip without the arm involved.  Hyperextensions are great too (Do them correctly though), and doing them unilaterally is pretty damned hard!  If you can get them to do unilateral RDLs after building some kind of strength base, then those are great too.  The load on the spine is very low.

However, I must say that I have no problem letting healthy 50 year olds deadlift (Some of them anyway, it obviously depends on the person).  I don't load up 315 and tell them to do 1RMs or anything, but I will start them on a rack in a sumo stance with their functional range of motion once I feel comfortable that they have sufficient movement proficiency to do so.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 20, 2006)

For elderly people and training.....

i was asked this question by a classmate and this was what I sent them as  reply:



> I don't really have any books on the subject. There was one that I came across from Human Kinetics called "Functional Fitness for Older Adults" by Patricia Brill. I have it. It is okay. It has some good ideas.
> 
> I saw John Graham give a lecture about some of the testing procedures he uses for his older clients that I was able to take a lot from that also.
> 
> ...


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 21, 2006)

Good stuff P.  

Postural concerns are definitely huge with them.  Take someone who is 50 and comes to workout for the first time ever, and has been working a sedentary job for the past 20-30 years.  Definitely posture is going to be huge.

Another thing I want to add is that often times flexibility is a huge concern for older clients.  I always throw in a little extra stretching and warmup activities for older clients.  I also feel soft tissue work is a biggie with them.


I must say though, that older people are sometimes my favorite people to train.  They do very little bitching from my experience, and they usually don't question what you have to offer so much.  One guy I train is 53, and before he started training where I'm at he had no exercise experience period.  I picked him up from another trainer after a few months of training.  The guy has a great work ethic and has made some awesome progress since he started working out.  He can do 8-10 chinups, deadlift 135 for reps with a trap bar, etc.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 21, 2006)

Ok....Got into another long argument with my boss.  I told him about the meeting I have coming up with the owner/operator of speed sports performance (thx patrick) But just that I was going up there to talk shop and maybe even try and shadow someone a couple times a week as maybe an internship.  I told him I wasn't really challenged in my current environment and that I want to learn more about things aside from just "sweating and losing weight".  But in his opinion, I haven't "mastered" that aspect of training yet... 

I was shadowed by another business owner in 2 different studios and he thinks I'm on point.  I want to learn as much as possible as I think it will help tremendously in the future and even help me get through school IMO.  



Anyway....what good books have you all read lately??  I have "The new rules of Lifting" by lou schuler and alwyn cosgrove...it was a pretty fun read...I learned a little..but had a good time reading it.  I also have "functional training for sports" by michael boyle....what I have read of this is great, but I started studying for my cert around the time I got it so I haven't really sat down to read it cover to cover.  Books I would love to check out in the future are "supertraining"...."low back disorders"...and "the book of muscle"....


----------



## P-funk (Sep 21, 2006)

supertraining is okay
the science and practice of strength training by zatsiorsky is okay
sports power by dave sandler is okay
jumping into plyometrics by Donald Chu is okay

there are a ton of books out there.

try reading texbooks.

exerise physiology
some kineseology
Diagnosis and Treatment of Movement Impairment Syndromes by Shirly Sharmman is one of the best books I ever read.

The NSCA Essentials of Strength and Conditioning book is okay.

Any of the NASM books are okay....the performance enhancement specialist book, the corrective exercise specialist book, the optimum training book (for personal trainers).

High Performance Sports conditinoing by Bill Foran is okay.


I mean....just read EVERYTHING! lol...really...that is the key.  Spend time on pubmed reseraching and learning etc.....there is so much stuff to read.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 21, 2006)

P-funk said:


> supertraining is okay
> the science and practice of strength training by zatsiorsky is okay
> sports power by dave sandler is okay
> jumping into plyometrics by Donald Chu is okay
> ...




textbooks, wow..that's a GREAT idea.  I can practically work on my degree before I start school!!  That would put me way ahead of curve.  All the hott girls would need tutors too I bet!!


----------



## P-funk (Sep 21, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> textbooks, wow..that's a GREAT idea.  I can practically work on my degree before I start school!!  That would put me way ahead of curve.  All the hott girls would need tutors too I bet!!



yea....

here are some that I had read that I liked

NSCA Essentials

Exercise Physiology:Energy, Metabolism and Human Performance; McArdle, Katch, Katch

Sports and Exercise Nutrition; McArdle, Katch, Katch

Exercise Physiology: Theory and Application to Fitness and Performance; Powers, Howley (I like this one better then the above phys. book).

Diagnosis and Treatment of Movement Impairment Syndromes;  Shirly Sharmman

Kineseology of the Musculoskeletal: Foundations for Physical Rehabilitation; Neumman




you should also go over and become a member of the NSCA (like $100 a year) because every quarter they send you a copy of both the NSCA Journal of Strength and Conditioning and the NSCA Strength and Conditioning Journal of Research.


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 21, 2006)

Low back disorders is a tough read.  I'm a few chapters into it, but I kind of put it on hold while I finished this novel I was taking forever to read.  I also have classes to study for right now so that is kind of taking precedence.  I will get back to reading it soon though.

I like the NSCA journals they send me too.  I have a couple waiting to be read right now that I got a couple weeks ago.  Supertraining is high up on my list.  The Sharmann book that P recommended is high on my list too.


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 21, 2006)

Griffin, check out this list:
http://www.ericcressey.com/recommendedresources.html

It has a lot of the stuff already mentioned and then some.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 21, 2006)

anatomy trains is supposed to be very good.  I need to read that one.

I want to take a look at that Egoscue book he talks about.  I remeber watching the show on fittv that Gabrielle Reese hosts, insider training, where they talk to pro athletes and their trainers about their training.

They had NFL guys, Junior Seau and John Lynch talking about Egoscue training that they do in the offseason.

Here is a thread on it for those that don't know what it is, egoscue.


----------



## Yanick (Sep 22, 2006)

man, i'd love to read those books. i'm so deep into anatomy, physiology, chemistry etc for my degree its getting to the point where i can't read for entertainment anymore. i have just enough time to read my philosophy stuff and thats about it.

supertraining is a great book though, so is the zatsiorsky (sp?) stuff, but might be a little old. it was cutting edge stuff a couple of years ago but new stuff is coming out all the time.

i hope to get to read all those recommended books as soon as i'm finished with school. i think i need to go into something other than what i'm studying for right now to be truly happy and that is something like training/physical therapy. my degree now will only allow me to make good money with a steady job


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 22, 2006)

Yanick said:


> man, i'd love to read those books. i'm so deep into anatomy, physiology, chemistry etc for my degree its getting to the point where i can't read for entertainment anymore. i have just enough time to read my philosophy stuff and thats about it.
> 
> supertraining is a great book though, so is the zatsiorsky (sp?) stuff, but might be a little old. it was cutting edge stuff a couple of years ago but new stuff is coming out all the time.
> 
> i hope to get to read all those recommended books as soon as i'm finished with school. i think i need to go into something other than what i'm studying for right now to be truly happy and that is something like training/physical therapy. my degree now will only allow me to make good money with a steady job




Why don't you go into a fitness related job?  There is money to be made for coaches that really know what they're doing.  And you might be a happier person doing something you love...that is...if you enjoy working with people and not just training yourself.  

What is your degree in now?

I have an update on the woman who hurt her knee doing step ups onto a flat bench...shortly after she hurt it...my boss had her get on the eliptical to "work it out."  A few clients have completely lost confidence in him and one isn't coming back.   

Great link Pimp.  My work is cut out for me.  

What kinds of exercises do you all like for aerobic conditioning??


----------



## Yanick (Sep 22, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> Why don't you go into a fitness related job?  There is money to be made for coaches that really know what they're doing.  And you might be a happier person doing something you love...that is...if you enjoy working with people and not just training yourself.
> 
> What is your degree in now?
> 
> ...



i'm working towards an Associates in Nursing, eventually to a BS and then i'll go either Nurse Practitioner or Nurse Anesthesist. The job market for nursing is crazy right now, my friend finished her Associates, got licensed and within two weeks had a job where she was making 68k/year. They wanted her bad, but she couldn't work full time because she wants to go further with her education they said she can make her own hours etc as long as she works for them. Its only going to get better in terms of opportunity and money in Nursing.

I'd love to be a trainer, but i tried that once already and it didn't work out to well 

on a side note, i looked at CP's link and "The Manual of Structural Kinesiology" is a great read. It lays by my computer at all times (along with two Psych books, a Nutrition text and Rob Faigin's NHE book) and is a pretty detailed read on the structure and function of the musculoskeleton system.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 22, 2006)

Yanick said:


> i'm working towards an Associates in Nursing, eventually to a BS and then i'll go either Nurse Practitioner or Nurse Anesthesist. The job market for nursing is crazy right now, my friend finished her Associates, got licensed and within two weeks had a job where she was making 68k/year. They wanted her bad, but she couldn't work full time because she wants to go further with her education they said she can make her own hours etc as long as she works for them. Its only going to get better in terms of opportunity and money in Nursing.
> 
> I'd love to be a trainer, but i tried that once already and it didn't work out to well
> 
> on a side note, i looked at CP's link and "The Manual of Structural Kinesiology" is a great read. It lays by my computer at all times (along with two Psych books, a Nutrition text and Rob Faigin's NHE book) and is a pretty detailed read on the structure and function of the musculoskeleton system.




Sorry to hear that...what happened if you don't mind??  Just didn't make any money??  I'm facing the same problem right now and are having to make some changes.  I don't think it will always be like this though, I need to be in the right place.  Ultimately, I want to find a flexible training job that allows me to pursue my own goals and further my education.  I may end up being a nurse or a physical therapist one day, heh.  

Anyone know WHY nursing is blowing up right now??


----------



## Yanick (Sep 22, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> Sorry to hear that...what happened if you don't mind??  Just didn't make any money??  I'm facing the same problem right now and are having to make some changes.  I don't think it will always be like this though, I need to be in the right place.  Ultimately, I want to find a flexible training job that allows me to pursue my own goals and further my education.  I may end up being a nurse or a physical therapist one day, heh.
> 
> Anyone know WHY nursing is blowing up right now??



i didn't make any money at all being a trainer. in hindsight i guess it was mostly my fault but i was kindda turned off by the industry after seeing the fucking morons that are successful. the only good thing was that i met some very smart and cool people and learned a shit load of info in 6 months. if i knew that i would meet more people like that being a trainer at a gym around my area i would be open to the idea, however from what i hear, read, and see most of the trainers are dumbfucks who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

i think nursing is blowing up because one of the generations that you always hear about (baby boomers or Gen X or w/e) is at the threshold of being old/sick. Hospitals and other medical establishments are very understaffed and backed up. Go to any big city emergency room and you will see what i mean. its already pretty bad (or good if you are going to be a nurse) and with time its going to get worse as people are living longer yet getting less and less healthy.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 22, 2006)

Yanick said:


> i didn't make any money at all being a trainer. in hindsight i guess it was mostly my fault but i was kindda turned off by the industry after seeing the fucking morons that are successful. the only good thing was that i met some very smart and cool people and learned a shit load of info in 6 months. if i knew that i would meet more people like that being a trainer at a gym around my area i would be open to the idea, however from what i hear, read, and see most of the trainers are dumbfucks who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.
> 
> i think nursing is blowing up because one of the generations that you always hear about (baby boomers or Gen X or w/e) is at the threshold of being old/sick. Hospitals and other medical establishments are very understaffed and backed up. Go to any big city emergency room and you will see what i mean. its already pretty bad (or good if you are going to be a nurse) and with time its going to get worse as people are living longer yet getting less and less healthy.





Dude, if I were you I would seriously (after your associates, when you have a job part time making money) think about working on a degree as a Surgical Assistant, specializing in othopedic surgery.  You will get to assist in some cool surgerys.  I talked to an orthodedic surgeon about it and he said his SA works from mon-thurs (they only do surgey on tues and thurs and then mon and wed they are in the office seeing patients) and gets six figures for a 4 day work week.  Plus, given your training back ground, you could easily take most of those peeps and do re-hab post op and make a pretty penny.  just something to think about.  I believe they have a good program at Hunter College and I am almost positiv their is one at Cornell Medical School on the Upper east side.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 22, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> What kinds of exercises do you all like for aerobic conditioning??



I think this was overlooked....


----------



## P-funk (Sep 22, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> I think this was overlooked....



interval work/tempo runs
high intensity sprints
some long duration work (with the general "pop" clients, not the athletes that are in short duration events)


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 22, 2006)

P-funk said:


> interval work/tempo runs
> high intensity sprints
> some long duration work (with the general "pop" clients, not the athletes that are in short duration events)



thx, this is pretty much what I've been doing, but was open to suggestions.  

Update on the lady that hurt her knee...she has torn her miniscus (sp?) and is going to have to have surgery and do physical therapy.  I actually spoke to her on the phone today and she started to cry and I almost cried with her.  

The exact exercise he had her doing resembles a one legged squat off the side of a flat bench....she is 45 and a little overweight...she's had problems with the other knee but not the one that was injured.  The knee she hurt was not the one on the flat bench...but the one making contact with the ground.  Could this have been avoided??  Was the exercise the ill-advised??  If yes, what's ur reasoning...IMO, static or stationary lunges would've been a better choice...and until they could actually hold weight in their hands comfortably and confidently would I ever consider going to an exercise with such a high vertical.  Even then, I prolly wouldn't do it...


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 22, 2006)

Too many variables...How is her warm-up, how long has she been training, how overweight, can she squat on 2 legs properly?

I have clients that would probably be considered high risk doing 1-leg bench squats, but that is typically after a thorough introduction to regular squats, balance training and then progression from split squat/stationary lunges, alternating lunges, walking lunges, etc...

If she tore her miniscus and it wasn't a freak accident like a slip, she obviously had no business doing them.

With new folk, I typically progress through a session during the first couple of weeks like this...

1)Dynamic warm-up
2)Balance
3)Resistance Training
4)Conditioning (If they don't do it on their own)
5)Core stuff
6)Stretch

Eventually balance is incorporated into the dynamic warm-up, and for fogies over the age of 50, I static stretch during the dynamic warm-up, this has always worked better for some reason.  For the first few sessions, I will just get their squat form down as the leg movement, and then add in a push and a pull to finish it off.


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 22, 2006)

Did he use a good progression wth her?  Like Dale said, once bilateral squatting is covered, split squats are a good way to start with unilateral lower body movements.  That's the first one I use with clients.  I then progress to lunges from there.  Eventually I try to get them to do Bulgarian squats.  Once their strength is up high enough I might have them try one legged squats on a bench, but most people aren't there.  I have some of the least dedicated clients in the industry I think, or "share" them with other people so I don't have full control.


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 22, 2006)

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1262526

Good article by Alwyn Cosgrove on structuring a workout.  This is very much like the way I structure my workouts.  Start with some movement preparation (Weak point/activation work + dynamic flexibility), do any explosive movement next, or those with an element of power, strength training, energy systems work, the foam rolling/stretching.  The only difference is he advocates stretching pre-workout more than I do.  I tend to use it as a form of active rest throughout the workout in between sets while resistance training.  He also said foam roll at the end, but I tend to do that at the beginning, the very first thing in fact (If they need it).


----------



## Trouble (Sep 22, 2006)

Dale, are you saying you have no adaptation phase work, you just launch into resistance training right away?  You don't have them doing several weeks of simple body weight circuits to condition them first?  

You do this with older clientele and might see tendon problems arise pretty dang quick.  That might be why you get a good response from the addition of statis stretching.

Would y'all stop using this phrase of "old fogies over 50"?   Old fogies are >65 yrs old, and most of us will be working until after we're 70.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 22, 2006)

No bodyweight conditioning stuff, I see no reason to condition them doing jumping jacks since the chance of me having them ever do jumping jacks again is nill.  Their old, not 5.


Adaptation phase=learn exercises, with less weight and higher reps.  It's easier to progress someone from 10lbs DBs to 15lbs than to progress from push ups on the knees to regular push-ups.  Most of the older people I get can't necessarily do a push up or pull-up.  IMO, progressing too quickly would be a bigger issue for tendon health than whether you are pushing the floor or a weight.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 22, 2006)

Trouble said:


> Dale, are you saying you have no adaptation phase work, you just launch into resistance training right away?  You don't have them doing several weeks of simple body weight circuits to condition them first?
> 
> You do this with older clientele and might see tendon problems arise pretty dang quick.  That might be why you get a good response from the addition of statis stretching.
> 
> Would y'all stop using this phrase of "old fogies over 50"?   Old fogies are >65 yrs old, and most of us will be working until after we're 70.



How did you deduce that he has no adaptation phase from his program lay out?  It isn't like he set up a periodized workout there.  It is just a frame work with no intensity listed.


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 22, 2006)

Trouble said:


> Dale, are you saying you have no adaptation phase work, you just launch into resistance training right away?  You don't have them doing several weeks of simple body weight circuits to condition them first?
> 
> You do this with older clientele and might see tendon problems arise pretty dang quick.  That might be why you get a good response from the addition of statis stretching.
> 
> Would y'all stop using this phrase of "old fogies over 50"?   Old fogies are >65 yrs old, and most of us will be working until after we're 70.



What's so magical about bodyweight exercises that they must be used first?

Granted, there are a lot of bodyweight exercises that I like to use in client's programs, but many of them, especially the upper body movements, are far beyond the reach of a lot of clients.  Yes, there are progressions for many of them, but one of those progressions can easily be to learn exercises utilizing external resistance to build some kind of strength base first.

Try dealing with a 300 pound female client for example.  You better bet your ass that it's going to be a serious challenge to get a pushup out of her in the near future without an unhealthy starvation diet.  She is probably going to have trouble repping out pushups off a wall.  You may as well give her some dumbbells so she can see progress in some form of fashion.  Doing wall pushups for 6 months isn't especially motivating for people.


----------



## Trouble (Sep 22, 2006)

Doesn't say body weight resistance work, just starts out with resistance exercises.  I start mine out with general conditioning and stability work (circuit training style with balance elements integrated into it) with light medicine balls, working on flexibility and stretching before, during and after, then introduce resistance work using paired sets (like a superset), with light resistance.

Different approach.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 22, 2006)

resistance exercise=exercise with resistance, it doesn't matter if it is from bodyweight, a dumbbell, bands, chains, etc...


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 22, 2006)

Trouble said:


> Doesn't say body weight resistance work, just starts out with resistance exercises.  I start mine out with general conditioning and stability work (circuit training style with balance elements integrated into it) with light medicine balls, working on flexibility and stretching before, during and after, then introduce resistance work using paired sets (like a superset), with light resistance.
> 
> Different approach.



There's nothing wrong with that approach per se, but it's going to depend highly on the person, their existing base strength levels, their movement patterns, etc.

I like to get the classical resistance training exercises involved as quickly as possible.  They are what get results.  Certainly, a lot of clients, particularly older clients, need more remedial work when they first start.  Still, these exercises are most likely going to be variations on the basics.  If that means squatting with their bodyweight while holding onto something in front of them or sitting onto a bench, then that's what it means.  If that means pushups on the wall, then that's what it means.

Personally, I think using unstable surface training initially is more dangerous than having someone try to bench press 5 pound dumbbells.  If a person can't even do a plank for a decent amount of time, then don't waste your time on a stability ball.  They need to learn to control themselves on a predictable surface before utilizing balance tools.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 22, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Did he use a good progression wth her?  Like Dale said, once bilateral squatting is covered, split squats are a good way to start with unilateral lower body movements.  That's the first one I use with clients.  I then progress to lunges from there.  Eventually I try to get them to do Bulgarian squats.  Once their strength is up high enough I might have them try one legged squats on a bench, but most people aren't there.  I have some of the least dedicated clients in the industry I think, or "share" them with other people so I don't have full control.



Did he use a good progression??    

Have you seen anything I've said about my boss??  He's an idiot and he wouldn't dare take any training advice from me...I have NOTHING to offer/bring to the table in his opinion.

The woman that he hurt....he hurts on an almost weekly basis...she's been in a car accident and now has wrist and neck problems....they do push ups EVERY WEEK...even though they really hurt her wrists...instead of doing another pressing movement in it's place...check this out...he puts dumbells on the ground to use as push up bars...   

And another week they did this really good ab workout that made her neck so stiff it was painful and she actually cried driving home that night...

I said this before, but she did a set of bench squats..then he took her to the eliptical and had her run on level 18 for a minute....then the next set she tore her miniscus, so in an effort to "work it out" he had her try and run on the eliptical some more.  Her surgery is scheduled monday.



Oh and I also find it much easier to use light dumbells with my clients starting out...uber light weight and higher reps.  





and...

I got a foam roller today!!  I'm excited, can't wait to use it tomorrow on myself...If time permits I would definitely like to do some foam rolling with my clients as well.  I think they will really enjoy that.


----------



## Plateau_Max (Sep 23, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> First thing I've got right off is......well it finally happened...
> 
> My boss hurt someone.  They are going to the orthopedist and will likely never come back...blew their knee out...It was an older woman and he had her doing step ups onto a flat bench (kinda high up).  He had to help her up and to her car...she yelled at him and said she comes here so these kinds of things WON'T happen.  He told her it's probably just a "pinch"
> 
> She called this morning and said her knee is huge...



Hey does your boss not require a medical background?  My boss always has us get client consent to review medical records so we can see if there's a history of injury, weakness, medications they're taking, etc.  I mean... how old was this woman?  He should have especially been concerned in that case.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 23, 2006)

Plateau_Max said:


> Hey does your boss not require a medical background?  My boss always has us get client consent to review medical records so we can see if there's a history of injury, weakness, medications they're taking, etc.  I mean... how old was this woman?  He should have especially been concerned in that case.



she's 45 and we don't go over medical records, but inquire as to any prior surgeries/injuries they've had or what medications they are on and what they are for, we also have a questionnaire to complete before starting.


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 23, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> Did he use a good progression??
> 
> Have you seen anything I've said about my boss??  He's an idiot and he wouldn't dare take any training advice from me...I have NOTHING to offer/bring to the table in his opinion.
> 
> ...



I didn't figure that he used proper progression.  However, I must say that injuries are probably going to occur, although rarely, even with proper progression, form, supervision, etc.  There is some inherent risk with exercise, just as there is some inherent risk with driving or anything else for that matter.  Of course, you can do much to minimize this risk, which your employer seems to know nothing about, heh.




> I got a foam roller today!!  I'm excited, can't wait to use it tomorrow on myself...If time permits I would definitely like to do some foam rolling with my clients as well.  I think they will really enjoy that.



Just make sure you understand exactly why the foam roller is good.  You are going to have to sell that to your clients.  I have one or two who refuse to use it, or who pussy it up too much for it to be truly effective.  Most people are very receptive though, even if it's incredibly painful the first couple of times.  I usually just hit one or two trouble spots at the beginning of the workout and don't spend more than a couple minutes on it.  I have one, maybe two, clients who I hit 3-4 spots with at the beginning if they are less mobile/flexible.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 23, 2006)

Trouble said:


> Doesn't say body weight resistance work, just starts out with resistance exercises.  I start mine out with general conditioning and stability work (circuit training style with balance elements integrated into it) with light medicine balls, working on flexibility and stretching before, during and after, then introduce resistance work using paired sets (like a superset), with light resistance.
> 
> Different approach.



it is pretty much the same approach.  I think it is coming down to semantics, if you look at the first two parts of his workout,

1) Dynamic warm up
2) balance

In those two portitions, you get all the things you talked about....the dynamic warm up is done is a circuit type of fashion to increase heart rate, core temperature as well as prepare the joints to move and excite the nervous system.  Teh balance portion is all about stability, preparing the body to move in a multi-planer environment, increasing stabilization ability, proprioception, kinesthetic awareness, etc...That might be the fist 20min of training.  The deconditioned client is usually pretty tired after that.  I trained  a woman the other day for the first time, after our assessment the week prior.  We started with foam rolling, some static stretches, then dynamic warm up, followed by a total body exercise to get her thinking about her posture and try and correct things that were wrong (this is still part of the dynamic warm up) and then a reactive exercise (muti-planer hops) to work on her balance and eccentric abilities.  That was 30min.  I was like "okay, warm up is over.  Lets do some exercises".....She was like "holy crap.  warm up?"  and she was soaking wet and out of breathe.  We did very little (IMO), but, she is just that deconditioned.  So, we had to spend more time in this area of training.

Then, he moves to 

3) resistance training
4) conditioning

again, semantics, the persons training age and abilities is going to dictate how much you will do in each section of during the workout.  resistance training might be something as easy as BW squats (learning how to squat), followed by some cable chest pressess (Most woman aren't ready for push ups, deconditioned men usually can't do them very well, and if you are very overweight, chances are your wrists will let you know that you shouldn't be doing push ups anyway).  then, something like a rowing movement or a pulldown.  that can be in a circuit fashion and you can finish it with a light interval on the bike (3-5min.) and then some rest and go again (so now we incorportated the conditioning element in).  Or, you can take your time on each exercise, do them and then move onto the conditioning portion, which might be some easy intervals on the bike.


So, look at that workout, it is pretty much the exact same thing that you are talking about.  it is just semantics.  You wrote out the way your workouts go in a basic way, dale just wrote out the skeleton of his daily program, without going into details.


----------



## Trouble (Sep 23, 2006)

OK. Maybe you can stretch it, and call it semantic differences.  Fine.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 23, 2006)

It's not really stretching it, resistance training is training with resistance, not training with weights.

Well, When in Rome, I s'pose...


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 23, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Just make sure you understand exactly why the foam roller is good.  You are going to have to sell that to your clients.  I have one or two who refuse to use it, or who pussy it up too much for it to be truly effective.  Most people are very receptive though, even if it's incredibly painful the first couple of times.  I usually just hit one or two trouble spots at the beginning of the workout and don't spend more than a couple minutes on it.  I have one, maybe two, clients who I hit 3-4 spots with at the beginning if they are less mobile/flexible.



Ok, so it IS going to be painful the first couple times??  Shit took my breath away on a couple problem areas!!  Feels good afterwards though...a client asked about it this morning when she saw the roller and I compared it to a deep tissue massage...thoughts??  Some of them require a certain degree of flexibility too...(hamstring roll is a little difficult for me...but then again I got the roller yesterday)

When you guys foam roll...do you roll areas you use/d that day or do you go through all of them daily??

Stretch, then roll....or roll stretch....roll/stretch/roll...what are you guys doing??


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 23, 2006)

Roll first, just find the problem areas and hold the roller there for 20-30 seconds.  So, you pop on the roller with your hammies, roll until you hit a sensitive spot, and hold it there.  I roll my entire lower body and it takes no more than 5 minutes.  Then I hop on to do my warm-up, and then static stretch anything that is ridiculously tight, which for me is nothing.  Dynamic warm-up and then into the weights.  The problem with rolling afterwards is that you went through an entire workout with suboptimal tissue integrity, which is kind of counter to the point of rolling.

I s'pose you could roll after as well, but if you are only going to do it once, I would do it right before training.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 23, 2006)

Trouble said:


> OK. Maybe you can stretch it, and call it semantic differences.  Fine.



how is that stretching it?  Do you disagree or not?

I just don't see how you deduced all this info about program design from his small frame work of what a training session looks like.

Progression is progression.  Some people are unable to to handle even the most basic progression so they need to be regressed to something that is more manageable before they can move on.  Body weight is great.....if you can do it.  BW is difficult for many deconditioned folk.  So, you have to start even lower then that and regress a little bit (maybe light tubing, maybe cables, etc...).  Something mangeable before moving up to that progression of BW exercises.  

People are different, they have different needs and different abilities and while most people NEED the same type of things, their current level of abilities are going to dictate where you start with them to ultimatly get them to that goal.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 26, 2006)

well guys, I turned in my 2 week notice today!!

There is a guy I know who's been letting me help him out at a couple different studios around town and he asked me to be his permanent guy, promised me 40 hours a week!! 

I'm saved!!

I thought I was goin to have to start whorin myself out again too, that was a close one..


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 26, 2006)

Noice, what did the ex-boss have to say?



So, I went to the gym today, the gym I work at is actually a tennis club.  I asked the gal at the front desk if there were any open courts.  She asked me if I knew the policy for staff.  Apparently, staff cannot use the courts for free, regardless of whether or not they are open.  So I asked my Fitness Director and he told me he would ask the Club Manager.  I don't get why places make up shitty rules that don't make sense.  Who would it harm if I used a court that wasn't being used anyway?  The tennis guys get to use the gym for free, why not the other way around?


----------



## P-funk (Sep 26, 2006)

you should just move out to AZ.  Fuck those East Coast snob tennis clubs.


PW- what about the sports facility?


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 26, 2006)

I work tonight, last Thursday I put the appropriate amount of weights on each station based on what I thought would be the max that anyone could do there.  There are 3 dual power racks, 3 flat benches, 2 inclines and I didn't really fuck with the hammer strength stuff.  Within 15 minutes, some high school punk had already fucked up my system.

I told the GM that if this were my gym I would be embarassed, and I would kick anyone out who didn't put shit where it belonged.  Why should a 30 year old woman have to unload 10 45lbs plates from a leg press because some fat slob is too lazy?  I imagine he would have fired anyone else, but no one ever took the time to arrange everything so nicely so he gave me a pass.  The sport training guys hate me, they took the agility ladder and hurdles so I couldn't use them, so I brought my own in and ratted them out to the fitness director.  WIthin an hour the shit was where it was supposed to be.  They also got a shitload of equipment (Tackling dummies, sleds, Some weird system that goes around a basketball hoop that requires you to have a big arc and feeds the balls back).  The fitness director was telling me about this and I said, "Great more equipment they don't know how to use and can potentially hurt someone with."  The FD wants those guys out so bad because once they hurt someone, the club is fucked.  None of the guys are certified.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 26, 2006)

sounds like a great facility!  

could be worse.  You could be working with the dip fucks I work with.  at least there you are in a large facility....i am in close quarters with moronic behaviour everyday!


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 26, 2006)

P-funk said:


> sounds like a great facility!
> 
> could be worse.  You could be working with the dip fucks I work with.  at least there you are in a large facility....i am in close quarters with moronic behaviour everyday!



Yeah, the fitness director here is great, he is all into learning from each other, which is cool.  Most FDs think they know everything, like that bitch at the place I interviewed at who said they only hire people who know everything, yet didn't know what a bumper plate or a GHR machine was.

BTW, that PES manual is tight.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 26, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:


> Yeah, the fitness director here is great, he is all into learning from each other, which is cool.  Most FDs think they know everything, like that bitch at the place I interviewed at who said they only hire people who know everything, yet didn't know what a bumper plate or a GHR machine was.
> 
> BTW, that PES manual is tight.



yea, the PES manuel is awesome.  Right now all the classes are pretty sweet......I am learning a lot.  the discussions are pretty friggin' good.  especially the one that the assistant editor in chief of the strength & conditioning journal runs.  it is bad ass.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 26, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:


> Yeah, the fitness director here is great, he is all into learning from each other, which is cool.  Most FDs think they know everything, like that bitch at the place I interviewed at who said they only hire people who know everything, yet didn't know what a bumper plate or a GHR machine was.
> 
> BTW, that PES manual is tight.



oh, I'll send you the videos once the class is over in another 10 weeks.  I can download them and save them as they become avaliable when we discuss and test on each chapter.


----------



## ponyboy (Sep 26, 2006)

It's hard sometimes not to mention things that I see but I have learned to keep my mouth shut.  Last night I watched this new guy who is really young but thinks he knows everything because he just finished his Kin degree  do the EXACT same workout with three different women one hour after the other after the other.  Never mind that one of the women could barely even do the exercises, never mind with good form.  It actually pissed me off.  

Okay, so to contribute to the actual intent of the thread, here is a situation I currently have for you guys to ponder.  Woman in her late 20's is about 40 lbs overweight and wants to lose pounds for her wedding scheduled for one year from now.  I have been working with her for about 3 months and have managed to increase her strength, flexibility and endurance levels, but body composition stays the same.  She is eating better but not good enough.  A month ago she springs on me that her doctor has her on medication for hypothyroid.  No wonder she has trouble losing weight, right?  And her doctor is being lazy and telling her she needs to get adjusted in three more months while her levels are still messed up.  She is also chronically stressed out and  sprung on me this morning she thinks she is depressed.  No matter what lifestyle changes I give her she doesn't do them - or she does them half assed.  

This is only the third client in my career I have considered firing.  What would you do in this type of situation?  It seems like she has a lot of stuff working against her but she also refuses to make any major lifestyle changes that might help her out no matter how much I reinforce them to her.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 26, 2006)

The ex boss didn't have much to say...I mean, I'm staying with the same company even, just going where the hours are and he can't blame me for that.  

I am still going to meet with the director of speed sport performance.  I talked to him and he said I can come whenever I want, just after school hours....which leads me to believe they do ALOT of work with young athletes, like as a part of their curriculum maybe...

I like the guys I'll be working with now.  They are not about doing 45 min. cardio sessions, they are about taking your time and feeling out the client.  They even complimented me on my training ability and instruction of form...(one of the managers was impressed with my RDL form...he was supposed to be shadowing me and couldn't help saying "man your form is PERFECT" lol..)  And if I get the hours I need I won't be so stressed out and depressed about stuff...so in my freetime I won't be crying and moping around my house bored, I can get some work done and really crack down on the studying!!  yahoowey!!

One of the managers and I sat around and talked shop and I got into some of the more modern training principles and writing balanced programs based on movement planes and periodization, he was all about it...asking questions and everything it was great.  



A little bit back on topic.  I read an article I think by that christian thibadeau guy and he was talking about training women, saying on average they need more reps and more sets (just increasing overall volume it looks like) I remember something about it saying women need more volume to recruit more MU's....thoughts guys??  How does your training differ from a man to a woman?  What about those guys and gals that just want to "tone up"  (yeah I know)  and lose weight??


----------



## P-funk (Sep 26, 2006)

> A little bit back on topic. I read an article I think by that christian thibadeau guy and he was talking about training women, saying on average they need more reps and more sets (just increasing overall volume it looks like) I remember something about it saying women need more volume to recruit more MU's....thoughts guys?? How does your training differ from a man to a woman? What about those guys and gals that just want to "tone up" (yeah I know) and lose weight??




the famous study on this found that while the ratio of type I to type II fibers between men and woman is comparable, the type I fiber cross sectional area is larger."

the study concluded that for strength woman should train in a 6-8 rep range and for hypertrophy in a 10-12 rep range.

Big fucking deal?  Look in exercise phys. book at what are the ranges for hypertrophy?  6-12.  DUH.

The study basically confirmed what we already know.  For your clients, they probably aren't even lifting under 6 reps anyway (unless they are an athlete) since their goal isn't to increase limit strength.  A 6-12 rep range is fine.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 26, 2006)

ponyboy said:


> It's hard sometimes not to mention things that I see but I have learned to keep my mouth shut.  Last night I watched this new guy who is really young but thinks he knows everything because he just finished his Kin degree  do the EXACT same workout with three different women one hour after the other after the other.  Never mind that one of the women could barely even do the exercises, never mind with good form.  It actually pissed me off.
> 
> Okay, so to contribute to the actual intent of the thread, here is a situation I currently have for you guys to ponder.  Woman in her late 20's is about 40 lbs overweight and wants to lose pounds for her wedding scheduled for one year from now.  I have been working with her for about 3 months and have managed to increase her strength, flexibility and endurance levels, but body composition stays the same.  She is eating better but not good enough.  A month ago she springs on me that her doctor has her on medication for hypothyroid.  No wonder she has trouble losing weight, right?  And her doctor is being lazy and telling her she needs to get adjusted in three more months while her levels are still messed up.  She is also chronically stressed out and  sprung on me this morning she thinks she is depressed.  No matter what lifestyle changes I give her she doesn't do them - or she does them half assed.
> 
> This is only the third client in my career I have considered firing.  What would you do in this type of situation?  It seems like she has a lot of stuff working against her but she also refuses to make any major lifestyle changes that might help her out no matter how much I reinforce them to her.





tough call.

I'd fire her or tell her that you can't continue to work with her if she doesn't make these necessary changes to improve her quality of life/health.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 26, 2006)

Well, more excitement at the studio I work at......

I went in today to find out this woman that I train (who is always very happy and never seems to be upset) quit the gym because I wont train her like the last guy did (ie, just run around the gym non-stop...just keep moving).  So, the owners are very mad and i will have to have a talk with them again because they "don't know what is going on".  I was like "honestly, i don't know?  she is always really happy and I try and do things that she likes."  I just train her my way, which is not fucking romper room training.  The guy before me was a friggin' moron.  This lady loved him and so did the owners of the gym because he just made people run around the entire time.  I can't win.  I find it unethical to just sit back and do whatever these people want to  do without some semblences of a plan.  The owners don't give a shit about my ideas, they just want me to do whatever it takes to make the people happy, which means "giving them whatever they want".  WTF?  I think I need to quit.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 26, 2006)

P-funk said:


> Well, more excitement at the studio I work at......
> 
> I went in today to find out this woman that I train (who is always very happy and never seems to be upset) quit the gym because I wont train her like the last guy did (ie, just run around the gym non-stop...just keep moving).  So, the owners are very mad and i will have to have a talk with them again because they "don't know what is going on".  I was like "honestly, i don't know?  she is always really happy and I try and do things that she likes."  I just train her my way, which is not fucking romper room training.  The guy before me was a friggin' moron.  This lady loved him and so did the owners of the gym because he just made people run around the entire time.  I can't win.  I find it unethical to just sit back and do whatever these people want to  do without some semblences of a plan.  The owners don't give a shit about my ideas, they just want me to do whatever it takes to make the people happy, which means "giving them whatever they want".  WTF?  I think I need to quit.




That is EXACTLY what I was going through at the other studio.  My boss had it engrained in me that I had to romper room train.  He literally said "keep them moving, so their heart rate will be high and they will burn more calories."  It sounded good at first, I had never done any formal training before so I was open to all kinds of training methods.  The clients hardly get stronger this way, just highly conditioned.  

People will request to only workout with my boss because of the way he just beats their ass _aerobically_....they automatically think because they sweat and are short of breath that they got an awesome workout.   

I am out of their shortly, and I love the people that run the other studios...my manager reads T-mag regularly and after a long talk with me he's going to write himself a rigid program with periodization!!  I sold him on training movements and not "bodyparts" in one conversation.  That was very fulfilling.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 26, 2006)

It is just fucking depressing because I go in there and they want me to do things that I am not comfortable doing because I know they are not right.

I hate being in this position.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 26, 2006)

Oh, and speaking of T-mag.....here is a good one.....

I guess, for awhile, before Charles Staley had gotten his home training facility up he was taking his clients there (as an independant contractor) and the woman owner told me that "yea, I didn't think he was all that.  he made his clients rest and stuff.  it wasn't that great to me."

what a fucking retard.


----------



## GoalGetter (Sep 26, 2006)

P-funk said:


> Oh, and speaking of T-mag.....here is a good one.....
> 
> I guess, for awhile, before Charles Staley had gotten his home training facility up he was taking his clients there (as an independant contractor) and the woman owner told me that _*"yea, I didn't think he was all that.  he made his clients rest and stuff.  it wasn't that great to me."*_
> 
> what a fucking retard.



HAHAHAHAHA she said the same thing to me when i told her i was thinking of going to staley's workshop (it just happened i think). He is not all that... she said.

She is in NO position to say that STALEY is not all that.


----------



## GoalGetter (Sep 26, 2006)

P-funk said:


> Well, more excitement at the studio I work at......
> 
> I went in today to find out this woman that I train (who is always very happy and never seems to be upset) quit the gym because I wont train her like the last guy did (ie, just run around the gym non-stop...just keep moving).  So, the owners are very mad and i will have to have a talk with them again because they "don't know what is going on".  I was like "honestly, i don't know?  she is always really happy and I try and do things that she likes."  I just train her my way, which is not fucking romper room training.  The guy before me was a friggin' moron.  This lady loved him and so did the owners of the gym because he just made people run around the entire time.  I can't win.  I find it unethical to just sit back and do whatever these people want to  do without some semblences of a plan.  The owners don't give a shit about my ideas, they just want me to do whatever it takes to make the people happy, which means "giving them whatever they want".  WTF?  I think I need to quit.



P - i am surprised that some of the people I train there have not done the same - just up and quit. I have one or two who constantly ask me to do more jumping around. And one lady i don't train anymore because conveniently i am in school at the time of her sessions, used to tell me she liked the way the _other_ guy trained her because he would have her moving all over the gym... same damn crap. There is only ONE client worth showing up for, and that's my M-W-F 9 am girl. Everyone else can kiss my rosy cheeks.

After what you told me went down tonight at that place it makes me want to just not show up anymore, though. ARRRGHHHH! I'm about to go to Starschmucks for an interim job while I find something else. At least I won't spend any more money on coffee that way.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 26, 2006)

GoalGetter said:


> HAHAHAHAHA she said the same thing to me when i told her i was thinking of going to staley's workshop (it just happened i think). He is not all that... she said.
> 
> She is in NO position to say that STALEY is not all that.



She is a fucking retard.  When I was talking about Jack Daniel's Runner's Formula book she was looking at me like I had lobsters crawling out of my ears.  She had no idea what I was talking about or who he was.  How the fuck can you be so deep into marathon running and not know who Daniels is?  he is like one of the best coaches ever for running (mid and long distance).


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 26, 2006)

P-funk said:


> Oh, and speaking of T-mag.....here is a good one.....
> 
> I guess, for awhile, before Charles Staley had gotten his home training facility up he was taking his clients there (as an independant contractor) and the woman owner told me that "yea, I didn't think he was all that.  he made his clients rest and stuff.  it wasn't that great to me."
> 
> what a fucking retard.



hahaha...

We have two owners who invested in our new studio and my boss runs it...(the investors are a married couple)

The guy.....just doesn't work out....or exercise at all...doesn't do ANYTHING.  The lady was a client of my boss's at another studio.  She now comes sporadically and hasn't lifted weights in forever because....check this...

"she needs to/wants to lose some weight, so she's just doing cardio right now."

......

..................

Ok 4-5 days of cardio a week and NO RESISTANCE TRAINING!!!  that will do WONDERS for her body composition!!!  What a fucking tool.  


When you guys get your own place, and I get my degree, I'm coming to work for you, whether you like it or not...I might only have janitorial duties but I don't give a shit.  lol.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 26, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> When you guys get your own place, and I get my degree, I'm coming to work for you, whether you like it or not...I might only have janitorial duties but I don't give a shit.  lol.



If we ever get busy enough to hire people I will let you know.

Right now everythign is still getting ironed out as far as what we are going to offer etc....then we can show the company around a bit and try and drum up business.

All it takes is a few people and then it will snowball from there.

Dave, Ivonne and I have a really good product that I am not afraid to put my name on.

At this other place I don't even want people to see me because I am so embarrased.  I want to train with a paper bag over my head.  I don't even want to cut holes out for eyes because I don't want to see what the clients are doing.


----------



## Bakerboy (Sep 26, 2006)

P- with your new business where do you plan to train people?


----------



## P-funk (Sep 26, 2006)

Bakerboy said:


> P- with your new business where do you plan to train people?



well, if we have private one-on-one sessions, we will just go to a studio (kind of like where i work now....but not this place) and pay the monthly fee to train our clients there.

If we are working with teams, then we do it right at the high school facility (weightroom, baskeball court, football field...etc.)


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 26, 2006)

P-funk said:


> At this other place I don't even want people to see me because I am so embarrased.  I want to train with a paper bag over my head.  I don't even want to cut holes out for eyes because I don't want to see what the clients are doing.



HAHA!

It's funny, where I train a lot of the people do the whole circuit training thing too.  They are about pleasing their client el as well.  However, they do give creative freedom to the trainers there, thankfully.  No one has ever come up to me and said, "you know, this client really doesn't like your workouts, you need to make them run around like a circus freak a little more."  In a sense I understand it.  If the person enjoys the workout it's better than nothing, but still, why the fuck did they hire a trainer then?

I did have one person who wouldn't be my client. Why?  The dude had the worse case of upper crossed I've ever seen.  His thoracic spine was like a fucking hook.  So, big surprise, I didn't have the guy bench pressing.  I had him rowing like a fucking maniac and doing glute activation work out the pooper.  The guy had NO glute strength and had the classic full kinetic chain pronation complex; another big surprise, he had knee problems.  I'm not going to have this guy bitch to me about shoulder problems and lower back pain shortly after I start training him because of that.  No way, no how.  They didn't bitch at me though.  They understand where I'm coming from.

There are some clients where I will compromise what I want to do to some degree, or at least put up with some whining from them.  Usually though, I try to be clever and get them to do what I want through trickery if brute force doesn't work.  Sometimes I just explain why I want things a certain way but totally go over the top with specific vocabulary and such so that they don't understand what I'm talking about but I sound really smart.  Once I get them to do it, I will usually rephrase my explanation in layman's terms so that they actually understand why they're doing it, haha.


----------



## Bakerboy (Sep 26, 2006)

That sounds good. I was trying to find a model of the same kind of thing you are trying to do where I am from but I can't find the site. They train a few pro hockey players and other high performance athletes. I thought you would find it interesting. I will keep on looking and send you the link when I find it.


----------



## Bakerboy (Sep 26, 2006)

Sorry that took so long. Anyway it's a bit like what you are doing. It's a terrible website. http://www.telusplanet.net/public/robcorey/Advanced_Conditioning_Solutions/about.html


----------



## P-funk (Sep 26, 2006)

thanks.  i'll have a look at it.


----------



## ponyboy (Sep 27, 2006)

I guess I'm lucky because even though the people who run my gym are advocates of the sweat filled workout I have managed to do my own thing and have been fairly successful.  I just basically ignored what they said and over time as long as I was bringing in revenue they were happy about things.  I say what I have to so that my boss is happy but we reached an understanding.    

All of you just make sure you are not sacrificing your principles for the sake of keeping a job.  I always say to myself that I know I'm good and passionate enough at what I do to get another job in a heart beat, which has proven to be true over the years.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 27, 2006)

My boss justifies his 45 minute workout/cardio sessions by the logic that he doesn't trust his clients to eat right and do some cardio to lose weight.


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 27, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> My boss justifies his 45 minute workout/cardio sessions by the logic that he doesn't trust his clients to eat right and do some cardio to lose weight.



I don't really either.  Virtually everyone who comes to my gym is a total slacker outisde of the place, and many of them are total slackers during their workouts too.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 27, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> I don't really either.  Virtually everyone who comes to my gym is a total slacker outisde of the place, and many of them are total slackers during their workouts too.



I know what you mean, but still, you don't do what he does...I believe in comprimising a little...but I won't lower myself to that level again, because I don't want to be compared to trainers like that.


----------



## ponyboy (Sep 27, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> I don't really either.  Virtually everyone who comes to my gym is a total slacker outisde of the place, and many of them are total slackers during their workouts too.



Frankly if someone wants to pay me $75 an hour to baby sit and chat with them while they do a half assed workout then that's fine with me.  You learn very quickly who is there to improve and who is there to be able to say that they have a personal trainer and they had a "hard" workout.  The thing is, these people would be doing the same thing with any other trainer so I might as well get the financial benefit from it.  Might sound kind of jaded but after a few years you learn to just take their money and give them what you can.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 27, 2006)

ponyboy said:


> Frankly if someone wants to pay me $75 an hour to baby sit and chat with them while they do a half assed workout then that's fine with me.  You learn very quickly who is there to improve and who is there to be able to say that they have a personal trainer and they had a "hard" workout.  The thing is, these people would be doing the same thing with any other trainer so I might as well get the financial benefit from it.  Might sound kind of jaded but after a few years you learn to just take their money and give them what you can.



You make a very good point.  

Has anyone started out with a client giving them alot of what they think they need and slowly shifting the program towards more of what they need??


----------



## ponyboy (Sep 27, 2006)

I do that all the time.  With some people they want to do more traditional exercises but you can always throw in some stabilizing element or add in some core training so that they don't even notice.


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 27, 2006)

ponyboy said:


> Frankly if someone wants to pay me $75 an hour to baby sit and chat with them while they do a half assed workout then that's fine with me.  You learn very quickly who is there to improve and who is there to be able to say that they have a personal trainer and they had a "hard" workout.  The thing is, these people would be doing the same thing with any other trainer so I might as well get the financial benefit from it.  Might sound kind of jaded but after a few years you learn to just take their money and give them what you can.



Yeah, I hear you there.  The only problem with that is the enjoyment factor.  I couldn't have too many clients like that, or I would be blown.  I can handle a couple though.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 27, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Yeah, I hear you there.  The only problem with that is the enjoyment factor.  I couldn't have too many clients like that, or I would be blown.  I can handle a couple though.



yea, I agree.  A full day of that and I can't take it.  I like to try and get only people that are there because they want to be there.  I just can't stand working with anyone else.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 27, 2006)

I was talking and watching my NEW boss...(who I've seen clean 275 and it was beautiful) and actually realized I should narrow my grip slightly and can now do clean grip front squats YAY.  

I'm meeting with the owner/operator of speed sport tomorrow, looking forward to it.  

I know the manager of operations at a golds I'm a member of....

She really wants me to get certified and start working there, like now ....kinda weird...I'm young and quite inexperienced...I'm more interested in learning more and working towards something real than getting into an environment where I might become somewhat complacent and bored.  And I really do like my new boss and he's promising 40 hours a week and a raise in 90 days(he owns 3 studios in town that are well established...) 

Sometimes I think I would be better going back to waiting tables while I go through school...

FYI, from what my old trainer told me...gold's wages are a little higher than what I'm making now and the bonuses offer huge potential...400 if you train 21 hours a week and 700 if you train 30....And they are opening a new golds very soon in a large, wealthy city that's going to be COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS.  

Thoughts?


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 28, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> I was talking and watching my NEW boss...(who I've seen clean 275 and it was beautiful) and actually realized I should narrow my grip slightly and can now do clean grip front squats YAY.
> 
> I'm meeting with the owner/operator of speed sport tomorrow, looking forward to it.
> 
> ...



Gold's probably wants you because you are in shape, this leads me to believe you will need to prospect to get clients which sucks.  If dude promiuses you 40 hours, just take that.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 28, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:


> Gold's probably wants you because you are in shape, this leads me to believe you will need to prospect to get clients which sucks.  If dude promiuses you 40 hours, just take that.



The one that I have a membership at now has salesman who get uber commisision off of PT packages...Everytime they sell a membership they pitch a PT package.  Orientations are scheduled right away and a good trainer will try to flip it.  The serious or "better" trainers stayed super busy...like 30-40 hours a week, while the ones who acted like they didn't care or were too little to be taken seriously (lol) stood around a lot.  

I will take my 40 hours a week and run.  I will keep going to gold's gym and if I get some ridiculous offer I can't refuse, I will reconsider.  It is great having OPTIONS.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote of the day...

Random guy at the gym: You are 230, you don't look that big.

Dale Mabry: Yeah, that's cuz I buy my shirts in the adult department.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 28, 2006)

you are 230 now?  You gained 10 more pounds?


----------



## camarosuper6 (Sep 28, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:


> Quote of the day...
> 
> Random guy at the gym: You are 230, you don't look that big.
> 
> Dale Mabry: Yeah, that's cuz I buy my shirts in the adult department.



lol @ that


true.


----------



## camarosuper6 (Sep 28, 2006)

Ya know, if your looking to producing your own product... I have someone I can refer to you that can help you guys with that.

I myself have a few in the "works" that I wouuld like to bring out before year ends.

BTW... for training

SoCal is the place to be... I have no certification, but I gurantee I can get clients just from word of mouth.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 28, 2006)

Anyone here ever trained two people at the same time?  It's always been a fantasy of mine to train two women at the same time..

......



All joking aside, i have a married couple with completely different somatypes and needs and only roughly 40 minutes to train them both...it's been tough, but fun.....any ideas for future sessions?


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 28, 2006)

P-funk said:


> you are 230 now?  You gained 10 more pounds?



I've been 230 for over a month now, going back down now, prolly to 215.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 28, 2006)

I hate training two people at the same time, but do it for some people.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 28, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> Anyone here ever trained two people at the same time?  It's always been a fantasy of mine to train two women at the same time..
> 
> ......
> 
> ...



I train one group of three and a few groups of two.  One of the groups is a middle aged woman with Multiple Sclerosis and her 18yr old son.....talk about two ends of te spectrum!

It is hard but you have to just program out things that they can do in between while one works and the other rests.

Like, in the group of three, if someone is doing something that needs coaching or I need to spot, like squatting or bench press, then the others are doing something that doesn't need much coaching...like planks, or push ups, or a bike interval....get the idea?

The most I ever did was when I was doing some strength and conditioning at university of New Haven for the girls soccer team.  16 girls.  My friend did speed and agility with 8 of them and I would do strength and ESD with the other 8...now that was a busy friggin' hour!  I was beat after it.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 28, 2006)

Oh wait....I take that back..

The most I ever did was 20-25 with Dale at that camp....we had twenty 14-16yr old boys......it was the worst fucking shit ever because the kids were awful.


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 28, 2006)

I have one group of two people.  I think it's kind of silly to get a personal trainer and then go with someone else.  It's not really personal at that point.  Like P said though, just make sure you don't accidentally plan out two exercises that require spotting/coaching at the same time.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 28, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> I have one group of two people.  I think it's kind of silly to get a personal trainer and then go with someone else.  It's not really personal at that point.  Like P said though, just make sure you don't accidentally plan out two exercises that require spotting/coaching at the same time.



What I've been doing is bike intervals with one while the other finishes 4-6 exercises circuit style...then doing some core work together....They are a couple so I challenged them to see who could hold a plank the longest the first time to see where they _really_ were..and both held their first plank for almost 2 minutes pissin and moaning the whole time!!! Really funny to watch...I had them face each other and talked shit to both of them about how they were going to lose.  They are a lot of fun.



But the problem I ran into today was with coaching...and over some damn dumbell rows, they looked awful.  lol.  The guy could do Stiff legged deads on practically the first try but his dumbell rows looked like just some god awful shit....took a minute....I'm just not going to do that exercise again lol.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 28, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> What I've been doing is bike intervals with one while the other finishes 4-6 exercises circuit style...then doing some core work together....They are a couple so I challenged them to see who could hold a plank the longest the first time to see where they _really_ were..and both held their first plank for almost 2 minutes pissin and moaning the whole time!!! Really funny to watch...I had them face each other and talked shit to both of them about how they were going to lose.



that sounds pretty good.

I also like intervals on the slide board if you have one of those.

typically, I have all three (or two) do a dynamic warm up together, then we do 3 tri sets and then I get them all together for some sort of tabata or interval thing...sometimes tabata bike sprints or tabata squat thrusts or sometimes manuel treadmill runs (ie turn the treadmill off and have them push).


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 28, 2006)

I usually just have the two people I train do supersets and alternate between the two exercises.  I will often do something like make one of them unilateral and the other bilateral so that there is some built in rest time between the sets.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 28, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> I usually just have the two people I train do supersets and alternate between the two exercises.  I will often do something like make one of them unilateral and the other bilateral so that there is some built in rest time between the sets.



yea, that is what I do with the tri-set.

girl 1- lower body exercise
girl 2- upper body exercise
girl 3- stability

one will always finish before the others and then they rest until everyone is done and we switch.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 28, 2006)

Guys, I am almost finished with my certification exam.  It was STUPID easy.  Makes me feel dirty and worthless..  

I'm just going to get it over with and start with my own independent studies...I'm actually really excited about starting a book collection.  

Oh and my new boss is a member of the NSCA and he said those studies are a tough read!! lol...said it's like greek.  So I should be able to get my hands on his certification study materials and a few other things while I'm at it.


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 28, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> Guys, I am almost finished with my certification exam.  It was STUPID easy.  Makes me feel dirty and worthless..
> 
> I'm just going to get it over with and start with my own independent studies...I'm actually really excited about starting a book collection.
> 
> Oh and my new boss is a member of the NSCA and he said those studies are a tough read!! lol...said it's like greek.  So I should be able to get my hands on his certification study materials and a few other things while I'm at it.



Which exam did you take?


----------



## P-funk (Sep 28, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> Guys, I am almost finished with my certification exam.  It was STUPID easy.  Makes me feel dirty and worthless..
> 
> I'm just going to get it over with and start with my own independent studies...I'm actually really excited about starting a book collection.
> 
> Oh and my new boss is a member of the NSCA and he said those studies are a tough read!! lol...said it's like greek.  So I should be able to get my hands on his certification study materials and a few other things while I'm at it.



how did it go at the sports facility place today?


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 28, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Which exam did you take?



ISSA

Talk about one EXPENSIVE piece of paper that's not going to mean ANYTHING.  

If it wasn't open book it would be different.  Like a little harder...but for you, no studying would be required.  Mostly multiple choice and some matching bullshit....there are only 2 hypothetical case studies with questions and at the very end you have a bunch of choices of essay questions for each section.  I was actually able to select questions that required no additional reading lol....really challenged myself.  

I think I am going to enjoy studying more specifically in the future...like I have so far.  Starting with the basics...you guys have done a great job with pointing me in the right direction and for that I will forever be thankful.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 28, 2006)

P-funk said:


> how did it go at the sports facility place today?



I put it off until tomorrow....for one because I lost my voice, and two, I will be very close to his facility tomorrow afternoon...


----------



## P-funk (Sep 28, 2006)

oh cool.  good luck!  I am going to the olympia tomorrow so I will have to read about your experience on sunday night when I get home.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 28, 2006)

P-funk said:


> Oh wait....I take that back..
> 
> The most I ever did was 20-25 with Dale at that camp....we had twenty 14-16yr old boys......it was the worst fucking shit ever because the kids were awful.



Correction...

Rain, an indoor facility with a wet floor, about 150 juniors/seniors who wanted to go back to the bunks to play PSP, 5 games of dodgeball, and the bald bobby knight of baseball yelling at them for 20 minutes.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 28, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:


> Correction...
> 
> Rain, an indoor facility with a wet floor, and about 150 juniors/seniors who wanted to go back to the bunks to play PSP.



   

those bastards....if they only knew they were in the presence of greatness

If it was raining, you should've taped a workout outside and made my dream come true!!! 

http://ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=68768&highlight=dream


----------



## P-funk (Sep 28, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:


> Correction...
> 
> Rain, an indoor facility with a wet floor, about 150 juniors/seniors who wanted to go back to the bunks to play PSP, 5 games of dodgeball, and the bald bobby knight of baseball yelling at them for 20 minutes.



oh yea!  hahahaha......that was probably one of my darkest days as a trainer.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 28, 2006)

the only thing that saves that day was the bald bobby knight!  that guy was the  man!


----------



## P-funk (Sep 28, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> those bastards....if they only knew they were in the presence of greatness
> 
> If it was raining, you should've taped a workout outside and made my dream come true!!!
> 
> http://ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=68768&highlight=dream


----------



## GoalGetter (Sep 28, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> All joking aside, i have a married couple with completely different somatypes and needs and only roughly 40 minutes to train them both...it's been tough, but fun.....any ideas for future sessions?



I try to avoid it at all costs - even if it means missing out on some extra $$. I feel like 1) one of them will be short-changed because my attention is divided, and 2) it is just a pain in my ass to keep track of two people who have totally different needs and abilities.

If I had to train a twosome, I would hope that they are both athletes or at least athletic, have good form, at LEAST SIMILAR goals and abilities, and actually want to be there. not the typical husband-wife or mother-daughter gym members who just want to tone or lose 20 pounds by tomorrow.


----------



## wilwn (Sep 29, 2006)

it was an open book exam?...


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 29, 2006)

yep...

One page of the exam is on nutrition right...had a pie chart divided into 6 equal parts and was labeled "3000 calories"

First question

"How many calories is one part"

Second question

"How many calories are two parts?"

Third question

"how many calories is 3 parts?"

I'm not kidding...


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 29, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> yep...
> 
> One page of the exam is on nutrition right...had a pie chart divided into 6 equal parts and was labeled "3000 calories"
> 
> ...




What the fuck?  That requires no knowledge of nutrition...


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 29, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> What the fuck?  That requires no knowledge of nutrition...



Yep.

One of the other questions was 

Which of these is not a micronutrient?

Water
Vitamins
Minerals
Chocolate


----------



## P-funk (Sep 29, 2006)

LMAO!!!

and people wonder why I say ISSA is a joke.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 29, 2006)

P-funk said:


> LMAO!!!
> 
> and people wonder why I say ISSA is a joke.



Yeah, I started out reading every page of the monster sized textbook.  Started to lose interest completely...then figured I'd just take the test as I read...found that I didn't really have to read that much to take the test and now I just want to get it over with and start with the real stuff.  Things I want to read.


----------



## P-funk (Sep 29, 2006)

a) everyone starts somewhere.

b) the important thing is that you have a certification.  Certs are just a foot in the door. the don't, by any means, represent what you know.  I have seen guys with great certs who know nothing.  it is all about what you know.

c) when you have some time and money, go on and get a cert that has a little more meaning to you, like a CSCS or NASM-PES and you will be satisfied.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 29, 2006)

P-funk said:


> a) everyone starts somewhere.
> 
> b) the important thing is that you have a certification.  Certs are just a foot in the door. the don't, by any means, represent what you know.  I have seen guys with great certs who know nothing.  it is all about what you know.
> 
> c) when you have some time and money, go on and get a cert that has a little more meaning to you, like a CSCS or NASM-PES and you will be satisfied.



Do you have to have a degree first to get a CSCS cert?  What is the nasm PES?


----------



## P-funk (Sep 29, 2006)

yes, you need a degree first to get both the CSCS or the NASM-Performance Enhancement Specialist (PES).

But, you do not need a degree to get NSCA-CPT or NSAM-CPT so you might want to start there.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 29, 2006)

P-funk said:


> yes, you need a degree first to get both the CSCS or the NASM-Performance Enhancement Specialist (PES).
> 
> But, you do not need a degree to get NSCA-CPT or NSAM-CPT so you might want to start there.



That's what I thought.  I think I will start at the bottom and really hammer my anatomy and kinesiology stuff first textbook style.  That, I'm sure, will help tremendously when I start school again.  Then I want to learn as much about nutrition as I can.  After that I feel that the more advanced concepts won't escape me as they sometimes do now.  

See, I've kinda been learning things backwards up until now.



I want that OSP certification that only dale and p funk can give...


----------



## P-funk (Sep 29, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> That's what I thought.  I think I will start at the bottom and really hammer my anatomy and kinesiology stuff first textbook style.  That, I'm sure, will help tremendously when I start school again.  Then I want to learn as much about nutrition as I can.  After that I feel that the more advanced concepts won't escape me as they sometimes do now.
> 
> See, I've kinda been learning things backwards up until now.
> 
> ...



Dale has even certified me yet.  he said i am not ready.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 29, 2006)

P-funk said:


> Dale has even certified me yet.  he said i am not ready.



 

"when you can snatch the pebble from my hand" right??


----------



## P-funk (Sep 29, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> "when you can snatch the pebble from my hand" right??



exactly.

It is like that scene in Blazing Saddles where they new sherif tries to snatch the chess piece off the table from Gene Wilder.  You don't even see Gene Wilder move...that scence was so funny!


that is how fast dale is....seriously.


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 29, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> Yep.
> 
> One of the other questions was
> 
> ...



What the fuck...  They shouldn't just give away questions like that...


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 29, 2006)

P-funk said:


> Dale has even certified me yet.  he said i am not ready.




Nor will you until you start drinking beer.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 29, 2006)

well I met with owner/operator of sports speed performance today.  He absolutely convinced me I need to go into physical therapy.  Said that the industry is moving towards new facilities that will be like a gym/doctor's office/pt department all in one.  Said I can make anywhere between 60-100 grand a year and that the market for PT's is blowing up just like nursing and pharmacy.  Also said that even if I ascended to uber elite status (his EXACT words) there's not really a place for me in birmingham where I would make the money I deserve...and even fitness directors are drastically underpaid.  

Other than that, I watched him train a 14 year old...doing some speed and agility drills, we talked for a little about training, he seemed to know his stuff....repeated alot of the things I've heard here about training athletes.  

I wasn't looking for a job at all, and I wouldn't _really_ want to work there....it was a really crappy facility.  I was really dissapointed with the place.



Oh and today I used alternating sets instead of straight sets and finished 16 sets in just over 30 minutes...it totally sucked and one of my lifts REALLY suffered.  I wonder if it was because I'm not well conditioned or perhaps the change of scenery I don't know.  Man I was BEAT.


----------



## wilwn (Sep 29, 2006)

i'm thinking about going into physical therapy too.


----------



## ponyboy (Sep 30, 2006)

Physical therapy is fine, however even though I'm not an actual designated physical therapist I do a lot of that type of stuff with many of my clients.  Corrective exercise, myofascial release, joint support movements, back care, etc.  Being a PhyT means a minimum of a science degree plus I believe another couple of years of school (at least here is Canada) so it's a long road.  My advice is always to make sure if you're going to invest the time and moeny make sure it is something that you a)really want to do and b)isn't something that is going to be an oversaturated market in 5-8 years so business will be tough.  

4 years ago everyone decided that they wanted to be a chiropractor and now there are dozens of chiropractors out there without jobs and not using their four years of school because the market is hugely oversaturated.  

What do you guys think the next big thing in medicine/alternative therapy/therapeutic modalities is going to be?


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 30, 2006)

PT is fine, they are moving more towards requiring a DPT, MSPT minimum, that means 6+ years to make less than you can make as a personal trainer.  You also typically end up fucking with insurance that continues to drop your bottom line.  I know a ton of PTs, and they typically make $25-35 an hour, open wound PTs make more.  I have a friend who does vestibular and she worked with a couple of the Philadelphia Flyers.  Her salary is about $40k, do you know what their trainers probably make?  If you own your own practice or open a branch of a clinic you will make more, but unless you are doing this on your own, you are typically not making decent enough money to warrant the excess hours.  A buddy of mine opened a branch of the clinic he worked at and he is making more money, but he is also working 15-20 more hours a week which balances it out.  He is one of my buddies from high school, and he wanted to get in with my buddy who owns a sport training company.  My trainer friend charges 2-3 times what my PT friend charges with less schooling, crazy.

The next big thing in sports medicine???

I am thinking trainers will start to make more money and become more educated.  The bottom line is that there is a higher number of trainers doing more education-wise which leaves the people who are not doing the work losing clients.  A great deal of the people coming to me are Doctors or nurses who know some stuff, who have dropped other trainers because they didn't really know anything or kind of made stuff up on the fly that people trained in medicine know aren't correct.  Shitty trainers will still be around for a while, but business will be slow.  Within the next 10 years, I think a degree will be required.  This will do 2 things, it will improve the quality of service, but will also drive up prices so the average joe can't afford it.  The next step will be corporations realizing that it is of worth to keep their employees active, and corporate wellness will take off further.  Insurance companies will probably never catch on, but they never pay full price for services anyway.

I think the first step is getting the trainers who don't know shit off of reality television.

Oh, and I have one more gripe.  Physical therapists who don't give people exercises to do once they are done PT.  I get a ton of people who had X happen, who have chronic pain in and around the area, and who were released from therapy by their therapists.


----------



## CowPimp (Sep 30, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:


> I think the first step is getting the trainers who don't know shit off of reality television.



Haha, agreed.  I can't believe that show exists.  It's giving trainers a bad name everywhere.  The first time I hear someone say to me, "I want you to yell at me like those trainers on TV," will also be the first time I slap a prospective client across the face.


----------



## PWGriffin (Sep 30, 2006)

While I do REALLY hate shitty trainers....I think they will make it easier for the more educated ones to go further in the industry. 

Trainers in general= dime a dozen

P crunk, CP, and dale = diamond in the rough..



I think you guys will go on to do great things if you work hard


----------



## Dale Mabry (Oct 1, 2006)

I wonder if those fellas would want to devise a test, I am doing a lot of reading, but don't think it will stick without a test at the end.  Maybe an IM trainer test where each of us pick a section and develop 25-40 questions based on it.


----------



## PWGriffin (Oct 1, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:


> I wonder if those fellas would want to devise a test, I am doing a lot of reading, but don't think it will stick without a test at the end.  Maybe an IM trainer test where each of us pick a section and develop 25-40 questions based on it.



Pick a section of the forums??  Or do you have a book in mind??  Or am I completely lost??


----------



## PWGriffin (Oct 4, 2006)

I have asked for a plane ticket to AZ for christmas.... lol.

If they can't comply, I have given them the list of books I have to read that were recommended here...I am such a nerd.  

So what do the resting intervals look like for you guys and ur clients??  I've met a bunch of people and one of their goals is to keep the client moving and keep their heart rate up...I think this is stupid.  Thoughts?? Do you think the client would lose "more" weight with this??  Or would the calories burned from training at a higher heart rate be negligible?

I went to another studio to help out the other day and we all talked for a minute...I mentioned that I read a lot to stay up to date...one trainer says "oh yeah me too, I read muscle and fitness EVERY night"...lol...


----------



## P-funk (Oct 4, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> I have asked for a plane ticket to AZ for christmas.... lol.
> 
> If they can't comply, I have given them the list of books I have to read that were recommended here...I am such a nerd.
> 
> ...





rest intervals are going to really depend on what you are trying to do with the person as far as goals, intensity, etc....

If it is someone that is looking for general health, I go with quad sets or trisets and the stretch at the end acts as their rest or, if they need to catch their breathe or get water, I allow them to.  Once you start pushing up to higher intensities or working on power development, you are going to need to give them rest so make sure that optimal strength/power can be displayed as well as ensure proper technique and not teach poor motor patterns.


----------



## PWGriffin (Oct 6, 2006)

I have met a trainer that works at the golds I am a member of who has a degree in exercise phys. and an NSCA CSCS...Until now I didn't know people like this REALLY existed...more like unicorns and shit....(might be real, but never seen one)  He's trying to get on with U of Ten...said that S&C coach jobs are hard to come by.  I plan on working at the new golds they are opening in feb here in town....hopefully I will be around this guy and pick his brain daily...heh....it's the closest thing to p-funk in person!!


----------



## P-funk (Oct 6, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> I have met a trainer that works at the golds I am a member of who has a degree in exercise phys. and an NSCA CSCS...Until now I didn't know people like this REALLY existed...more like unicorns and shit....(might be real, but never seen one)  He's trying to get on with U of Ten...said that S&C coach jobs are hard to come by.  I plan on working at the new golds they are opening in feb here in town....hopefully I will be around this guy and pick his brain daily...heh....it's the closest thing to p-funk in person!!



he is probably better.  p-funk in person ain't so great.


----------



## PWGriffin (Oct 6, 2006)

P-funk said:


> he is probably better.  p-funk in person ain't so great.



Don't talk urself down.  You are the truth and you must know that without you, CP, and Dale, this site would be shit.


----------



## P-funk (Oct 6, 2006)

okay, I win...hands down, I win today.  I have the best story of the day......


This heavy woman started training at the studio this week with my manager.  So, today, he has her do 1 hour of cardio AND THEN does her weigh in.  I had the pleasure of watching the entire thing.

She finishes cardio, walks over, gets on the scale, he starts moving the thing around and then he goes "4lbs in one week!"  and he hugs her.  She replies "yea, but isn't that just water weight?"  to which he comments "it doesn't matter".


----------



## GoalGetter (Oct 6, 2006)

P-funk said:


> okay, I win...hands down, I win today.  I have the best story of the day......
> 
> 
> This heavy woman started training at the studio this week with my manager.  So, today, he has her do 1 hour of cardio AND THEN does her weigh in.  I had the pleasure of watching the entire thing.
> ...



I am so farking glad I don't work there anymore. If I had been there for that one, I would have ripped him a new a-hole.


----------



## Double D (Oct 6, 2006)

P-funk said:


> okay, I win...hands down, I win today.  I have the best story of the day......
> 
> 
> This heavy woman started training at the studio this week with my manager.  So, today, he has her do 1 hour of cardio AND THEN does her weigh in.  I had the pleasure of watching the entire thing.
> ...




Some people will do anything for money.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Oct 6, 2006)

P-funk said:


> p-funk in person ain't so great.



I can attest to that.


----------



## P-funk (Oct 6, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:


> I can attest to that.



Dale is hero.


----------



## Jodi (Oct 6, 2006)

P-funk said:


> okay, I win...hands down, I win today.  I have the best story of the day......
> 
> 
> This heavy woman started training at the studio this week with my manager.  So, today, he has her do 1 hour of cardio AND THEN does her weigh in.  I had the pleasure of watching the entire thing.
> ...


----------



## CowPimp (Oct 6, 2006)

P-funk said:


> okay, I win...hands down, I win today.  I have the best story of the day......
> 
> 
> This heavy woman started training at the studio this week with my manager.  So, today, he has her do 1 hour of cardio AND THEN does her weigh in.  I had the pleasure of watching the entire thing.
> ...



Wow, what a sellout jackshit moron.


----------



## PWGriffin (Oct 6, 2006)

..........






WoW



........


WoW

That, I think is the dumbest thing I've heard of any trainer doing evar.  Yeah, I said evar.


----------



## PWGriffin (Oct 7, 2006)

Alright guys, this isn't tellin u guys anything but I take everything you guys say to heart and try to use as much of my knowledge as I can to benefit my clients and I am a little proud of myself right now....

This morning I was training one of my guys....he is huge...330lbs...pretty strong upper body....well his squat looks like crap.  The other trainers said it looks like crap and they can't fix it.  Well I took him back to the basics this morning...fixed his foot positioning and set a bench behind him but far enough back that he has to learn to break his hips and stick his butt out a little to start the squat...if he didn't touch the bench I yelled "no lift!!"  (got that from the letter coach wendler wrote lol) and that rep didn't count.  And I put one of our heavier Medicine balls in his hands too.  

15 reps of those beat him up pretty good and by the 3rd set he wasn't missing the bench for any of his reps...and I could really tell he was pushing off his heels/middles of his feet and not his toes.

He also commented it was easier on his knees....I say "bingo" to that...


----------



## P-funk (Oct 7, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> Alright guys, this isn't tellin u guys anything but I take everything you guys say to heart and try to use as much of my knowledge as I can to benefit my clients and I am a little proud of myself right now....
> 
> This morning I was training one of my guys....he is huge...330lbs...pretty strong upper body....well his squat looks like crap.  The other trainers said it looks like crap and they can't fix it.  Well I took him back to the basics this morning...fixed his foot positioning and set a bench behind him but far enough back that he has to learn to break his hips and stick his butt out a little to start the squat...if he didn't touch the bench I yelled "no lift!!"  (got that from the letter coach wendler wrote lol) and that rep didn't count.  And I put one of our heavier Medicine balls in his hands too.
> 
> ...







box squats are a great way to teach.


----------



## CowPimp (Oct 7, 2006)

P-funk said:


> box squats are a great way to teach.



Agreed.  I use the box to start out almost everyone.


----------



## PWGriffin (Oct 7, 2006)

Where's my fuckin cookie??


----------



## P-funk (Oct 7, 2006)




----------



## PWGriffin (Oct 9, 2006)

Ok....so I was in trouble when I got to work this morning.  Apparently 3 women complained about me at the same time.  

One was having a bad day before she came in and I apparently pushed her too hard.  She didn't want to workout I guess   We didn't do anything special or out of the ordinary...just a normal workout....hell the sets were all like 15 reps too....but they weren't "easy" I guess.

Second and third complained their backs were hurting saturday...

The first lady is not heavy at all....But she has a fused vertebrae...I think the last thoracic and the first lumbar??  We did NO lower back work...NONE.  We did some fucking bodyweight squats and what she "thinks did it" was the seated pulley rows.....again we're talkin 15 rep sets.  I wanna scream at her...HEY LADY UR BACK IS FUCKED UP...SOMETIMES IT WON'T FEEL "PEACHY".  

The second lady that complained her back was hurting...lets check out her profile...I think she has a lumbar lordosis but can't tell cuz she's 300lbs...and she's TIGHT AS FUCK in the lower body...I told her to stretch as much as she can when she's not there and she just doesn't do it for no reason.  The only thing we did that might've hurt her was uber light RDL's with dumbells...I think they were like 15-20lbs.  So do you guys think it's normal for a persons back to bother them a little with a lordotic curve...uber tight hamstrings....and about 200lbs of fat??

The consensus is I'm pushing the women too hard and not kissing their ass enough and talking about their weekend.  Today I was encouraged to be fake and back off on weights and volume...and don't worry if we can't finish...let them finish their story.  

I can finish an intense bout of exercise in 30 minutes ish...but I'm not talking to someone...learning how to do different exercises and the weights are heavy enough that I don't need super high volume.  This also doesn't count my warm up or my stretching/cool down.  

I am being asked to, what I feel, compromise my integrity as a trainer.  And I must comply....until I can find something better.  

Does anyone else hate training lazy women??  What the fuck am I supposed to do??


----------



## P-funk (Oct 9, 2006)

well, you may have been pushing them to hard for their capabilities.  Who the fuck knows.  Some people are really bitchy and have a trainer just to say they have a trainer and they really don't want to work.  some people just really can't work that hard!

they sound like they are really deconditioned.

15-20lb RDLs may be light to you, but for some....that might be heavy as hell!  I train a woman that has a hard time doing 10 reps with 10lb dbs!  I would lay off the execise, if the woman is having back problems with it.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Oct 9, 2006)

Fat people are lazy, either stop training fat people, or cater to them...I haven't trained someone more than 20lbs overweight in forever.

If you think you can get them results with a subpar workout, do it.  If you think they are failures, dump them.

If I tell them to stretch on their own time and they don't, it goes at the beginning of every workout.


----------



## PWGriffin (Oct 9, 2006)

P-funk said:


> well, you may have been pushing them to hard for their capabilities.  Who the fuck knows.  Some people are really bitchy and have a trainer just to say they have a trainer and they really don't want to work.  some people just really can't work that hard!
> 
> they sound like they are really deconditioned.
> 
> 15-20lb RDLs may be light to you, but for some....that might be heavy as hell!  I train a woman that has a hard time doing 10 reps with 10lb dbs!  I would lay off the execise, if the woman is having back problems with it.



Well it's very likely I won't be training any of these 3 again.  One of the managers wanted to watch me train some more and listen to me and talk to me like I just started.  I thought I was doing a good job.  I'm trying so hard to make everyone happy and do what I believe to be a good job at the same time, but it's not enough.  I don't feel like I know enough about this shit to work around all these injuries.  I mean....someone has a back injury...so we do no back work...and she still hurts...fuck!!!


----------



## P-funk (Oct 9, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> Well it's very likely I won't be training any of these 3 again.  One of the managers wanted to watch me train some more and listen to me and talk to me like I just started.  I thought I was doing a good job.  I'm trying so hard to make everyone happy and do what I believe to be a good job at the same time, but it's not enough.  I don't feel like I know enough about this shit to work around all these injuries.  I mean....someone has a back injury...so we do no back work...and she still hurts...fuck!!!



everything is back work!  teach stabilization first.  teach her to keep her lower back stable and neutral.  How deep was she squatting?  What was her pelvis doing?  these are things you need to look at when someone has a fused vertabrae.  I wouldn't load her up and have her do squats.  Limit her ROM if you are doing BW squats.  get her stable first.  then move into more movement type stuff.  what was her fitness assessment like?


----------



## PWGriffin (Oct 9, 2006)

P-funk said:


> everything is back work!  teach stabilization first.  teach her to keep her lower back stable and neutral.  How deep was she squatting?  What was her pelvis doing?  these are things you need to look at when someone has a fused vertabrae.  I wouldn't load her up and have her do squats.  Limit her ROM if you are doing BW squats.  get her stable first.  then move into more movement type stuff.  what was her fitness assessment like?



fine, she's actually in pretty good shape...just not terribly strong.  She was squatting pretty deep, she didn't have trouble with depth really.  

And none of these clients are new either.  But some I am having to take back to the drawing board.  They have gotten away with bullshit for too long and no one cared enough to correct their form.


----------



## P-funk (Oct 9, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> fine, she's actually in pretty good shape...just not terribly strong.  She was squatting pretty deep, she didn't have trouble with depth really.
> 
> And none of these clients are new either.  But some I am having to take back to the drawing board.  They have gotten away with bullshit for too long and no one cared enough to correct their form.



don't worry about the depth.  worry about the pelvis!  if she is fused it could be doing something funny (as it lacks movement) and could have compensations elsewhere, which is creating the pain.


----------



## PWGriffin (Oct 9, 2006)

P-funk said:


> don't worry about the depth.  worry about the pelvis!  if she is fused it could be doing something funny (as it lacks movement) and could have compensations elsewhere, which is creating the pain.



if you teach me, I will listen

What are some different movements the pelvis could make and what do they mean?


----------



## P-funk (Oct 9, 2006)

posterior and anterior tilt.  just teach her how to stabilize herself.


----------



## Valias (Oct 10, 2006)

Yeah i'm not a personal trainer so i apologies for that, but keep up the hardwork griffin, sounds like it's getting tough but yeah good luck with being the best you can be.


----------



## ponyboy (Oct 10, 2006)

You can use a Swiss Ball to teach pelvic tilt, especially with obese people because they are seated.  You can tilt front to back, side to side, clockwise and counterclockwise.  Anyone with back problems will have a hard time with most of these and have trouble with their ROM in certain directions.  But it's a good place to start with pelvic stability.


----------



## PWGriffin (Oct 19, 2006)

I have some updates on the women that complained.

1 is bipolar and was on her period and was having a bad day all at the same time.  This is the one that just didn't like me and said I pushed her too hard.

The one who was doing light RDL's and complained of her back a couple days later...she went to the chiro and found she has arthritis and bursitis in her back and a bunch of other shit.  I didn't cause this with 3 sets of 1 exercise 1 time.  

The other one who complained of her back that I was under the impression had a fused vertebrae...in fact does NOT have a fused vertebrae, there is NOTHING wrong with her lower back except it is really weak.  And she didn't hurt it during the workout...a day or two later she felt a "pop" in her lower back when holding a baby out in front of her.  And it was fine by next week.


In other news.  Apparently women hate me.  One woman said she wouldn't renew if she had to train with me.  They told me not to train the women so hard, I don't.  Now it comes down to personality issues.  One women that doesn't want to train with me only trained with me ONE TIME, and my boss WATCHED the session!  

I hate old rich women, they are lazy bitches.  I may very well go back to waiting tables until I finish school and get a CSCS.  I will probably do Physical Therapy if I can't work with serious people or athletes.  I really hate training dumb rich bitches.


----------



## P-funk (Oct 19, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> I have some updates on the women that complained.
> 
> 1 is bipolar and was on her period and was having a bad day all at the same time.  This is the one that just didn't like me and said I pushed her too hard.
> 
> ...





I feel your pain.  Many woman have said that I am not sensitive enough when training them.  It doesn't matter to me because chances are....the ones that say that and complain are the ones I don't want to train anyway!  So fuck them.  In NYC almost all my clients were young (late 20s, early 30s) woman...they like to come in and train hard and not fuck around so they like working with me.  that is just how it is.  You are always going to have to deal with people that aggravate the fuck out of you because they are serious enough and don't share your passion.....so they complain.

As far as you last statment goes......

I had come to the conclusion several weeks ago, after moving to AZ, and starting to work for these people as I try and get my own business off the ground that, if this were my first training job, if this is what training people was like...then I would never want to be a trainer, I would quit right then and there and do something else.

You have to carve your own niche and work with those you want to work with....serious folks who are looking for serious results.  Not these people that expect you to friggin' entertain them for an hour.

Keep the clients you like and slowly build a niche of serious people.  Take some sort of part time job elsewhere to make ends meet until you build up a good client base of people that you like and you start getting a reputation around town as a guy who really gives you great training as long as you work hard.  Either that or find somewhere to work that embodies your vision of what training is and not one of the FOO-FOO, sorry I am late because the cleaning lady showed up late this morning, type of places.

I am too considering quiting training at this shitty gym to go work part time doing something (maybe at a supplement store) in the AM and then only train those I want to train in the PM, until my business really gets flying and I can train those that I want to train all day and not have to fuck around with a bunch of whinning fat fuck woman who want to bitch about how their husbands don't love them anymore....News flash lady....you are fat and you are a bitch...not a good combo.


----------



## PWGriffin (Oct 19, 2006)

I may very well lose my job over this though.  I haven't been at this particular studio very long and there have been this many complaints.  I have to go talk to my boss today and tomorrow morning they want me to "observe" a "good trainer" at work.  If there is another complaint or someone else that prefers they don't train with me.  I will be fired.  

I understand that I am young and probably immature, but I take training seriously.  When I have to slow down the training and talk more, I see myself saying some dumbshit and getting on someone's nerves.  

It's really a good thing I want to go back to school anyway...I just want to be in a fitness related field, and pick and choose who I train, all while just trying to make a good living for myself.  

Supplement store...now that's an idea.


----------



## P-funk (Oct 19, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> I may very well lose my job over this though.  I haven't been at this particular studio very long and there have been this many complaints.  I have to go talk to my boss today and tomorrow morning they want me to "observe" a "good trainer" at work.  If there is another complaint or someone else that prefers they don't train with me.  I will be fired.
> 
> I understand that I am young and probably immature, but I take training seriously.  When I have to slow down the training and talk more, I see myself saying some dumbshit and getting on someone's nerves.
> 
> ...





a) that is my biggest problem, sitting and talking.  I hate fucking wating time and sitting there talking to people.  I just want to get in there and do the workout.  the problem is most general population clients aren't as focused so you have to baby them....hence the "not sensitive enough" comments.

b) the people that own your gym, the people that own my gym only care about money.  they just want to get people in there and keep them there.  it is a factory.  don't let them ever leave!!  There is some good from this, ie you need to make a living, and some bad to this....ie, they are concerend about the money more then they are about helping people.  I got into this business to help people.....not to be rich.  It is my contention that if you show this genuiness to your clients, and you get people results AND GET THEM TO BUY INTO YOUR PROGRAM/SYSTEM (this is the problem you are having right now) then you will make money. Look at anyone who refused to change over the years...boyle does great, Cosgrove does great, Staley does great, Cressey does great.  These guys have a program, they have a system, they get people results and as from that, they get more clients.  The people that are gym owners are shitty trainers so they have to trick people into getting in there and training and then they have to force all the "myths" of training down their throat to get them to stay.  they make the industy shit.

c) explain to your clients what you are doing and why you are doing it and be clear!  They need to understand if they are going to buy into your program.

d) supplement stores are great because you can sometimes flip a few clients from it, and start them out on the right foot....ie, on your system...I do great with clients that start with me and great with clients that come to me from other trainers but are open to what I am saying.  I do worse with clients that come from other trainers that they loved, even if the person was as fucking idiot, and they want me to do the saem stupid shit that the other person was doing.  I don't like to argue and waste time fighting with people about how to train.....come in, trust me, workout, go home.....that is why you pay a professional.  I have to much time invested in this (studying, working with lots of people, etc..) so sit there and have some fat fuck tell me how they want to be trained.  If they know so much, then they don't need me....see ya later.  In a supp store you can flip people...."Oh, a fat burner?  Well, how is your diet and training?  You don't train at all really?  Your diet could be better!.....yada yada yada......"

e) working somewhere else and building up your niche is a great idea too......

example:

I have a friend that is a strength coach with the AZ Cardinals (that's right...NFL).  Now, he has been a strength coach for many teams, mostly college and he has ran his own programs.  For the Cardinals, he is the low man on the totem pole.  The bottom rung.  He has to do whatever the head strength coach says as far as training and to top it off he gets paid very little.  Some would say..."that fucking sucks!  he took a step back from doing his own thing for less money and to get bossed around?!?!?!".....Now I say (and he says) "Fuck it....you now have your foot in the door with the NFL.  This is what paying dues is all about!!  Foot in the door leads to more opportunities." ......he hates personal training because he hates having to sit there and talk to people and deal with all the bullshit...he loves the team atmosphere....So, he works part time at a supp store and he works for an NFL team.....Is that bad?  Nope, he is in his niche and he is buying his time until he can move up and make the niche bigger.


Choose what you want to do and then study and be the best you can be at it and be patient!


----------



## wilwn (Oct 19, 2006)

P-funk said:


> News flash lady....you are fat and you are a bitch...not a good combo.


----------



## CowPimp (Oct 19, 2006)

P-funk said:


> News flash lady....you are fat and you are a bitch...not a good combo.



Bahahaha!


Griffin, if you really have to, just keep the clients that appreciate your knowledge and you like training and dump the others.  Like P said, you can find another part time job to help make ends meet in the meantime: bartending, waiting tables, some type of PT assistant, etc.

You could also find a different place to work.  Seriously, there has to be somewhere else you can go.  Even if you were to leave and get a CSCS, that doesn't guarantee you a job somewhere that your manager isn't all about the money.

Just so you know, if you ever want to move to DC the metro area, I can get you a job where I'm at real quick.  Sure, you encounter clients like that, but most of the clients you get will be yours from the start.  It is much easier to sell your methodology to them if they aren't coming from some other trainer who had them jumping through hoops for an hour.  Also, you don't have to sell yourself, they just give you clients.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Oct 19, 2006)

I have been down the "I hate training road before", but that is a function of the training environment and the people you train.  I started training at this gym near my house, and I have already turned down 3 people who I could tell would flake out.  The fitness director has no problem with this, I told him that I want serious people who want to train properly, otherwise I don't want to train them.  He has sent 2 people my way that would have worked out had our schedules meshed up, but they just didn't.  I walk around the gym and watch other trainers do stuff wrong, the people running the sport conditioning programs doing things completely fucked up, and still make a shitload of money.  I don't worry about what they do, I just keep doing my thing.

When I first started training people 10 years ago, if I was doing worse moneywise than a shitty trainer, I would just bitch about it in my head.  Then, after a couple of years, I worked my ass off learning, but I was just taking anyone I could get and training them how they wanted.  Now, I take who I want and train them how I want, I wouldn't do this otherwise.

As for the chit chatting part, I don't mind it.  Could be that most of the people I train are actually interesting.  If I have someone who wants to be beaten down or is an athlete, I tell them we are not friends for 1 hour, after that they can gab away if they are interesting.


----------



## P-funk (Oct 19, 2006)

I don't mind the chit chat if the person is interesting.  I mind the chit chat if they want to friggin' complain and whine.


----------



## PWGriffin (Oct 19, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Bahahaha!
> 
> 
> Just so you know, if you ever want to move to DC the metro area, I can get you a job where I'm at real quick.  Sure, you encounter clients like that, but most of the clients you get will be yours from the start.  It is much easier to sell your methodology to them if they aren't coming from some other trainer who had them jumping through hoops for an hour.  Also, you don't have to sell yourself, they just give you clients.



U need a roommate?

I want to get out of birmingham badly, I have a job for me in atlanta if I ever want to go there.  Or I could take patrick's position when his business takes off in AZ...

i just need to be somewhere long enough to save up so I can travel a little...this is easier said than done.


----------



## CowPimp (Oct 19, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> U need a roommate?
> 
> I want to get out of birmingham badly, I have a job for me in atlanta if I ever want to go there.  Or I could take patrick's position when his business takes off in AZ...
> 
> i just need to be somewhere long enough to save up so I can travel a little...this is easier said than done.



I live with my dad, or that would be cool, heh.  I think I would have to work more hours to live on my own right now, which is hard with classes, even if I'm only taking 3.

If you do find yourself interested at any point, then let me know.  This is the website for the place where I work:
http://www.bodysmithdc.com/


----------



## P-funk (Oct 19, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> U need a roommate?
> 
> I want to get out of birmingham badly, I have a job for me in atlanta if I ever want to go there.  *Or I could take patrick's position when his business takes off in AZ...
> *
> i just need to be somewhere long enough to save up so I can travel a little...this is easier said than done.



*crosses fingers*


----------



## CowPimp (Oct 20, 2006)

P-funk said:


> *crosses fingers*



You'll do well.  You have more than enough smart and dedicated people involved in the startup of the business to make it happen.


----------



## ponyboy (Oct 20, 2006)

Chit chatting is fine with me.  I find it helps take people's minds off of what they are doing and passes the time for them - plus I feel that my role is to be supportive of any lifestyle issues they are having so we talk about stress, work, etc - I want them to feel like they left with a support system and someone who cares about their well being outside of the gym.  It helps maintain long term relationships.  

Plus, I've got some facinating clients - one guy was in Vietnam for two tours, one guy is a displaced refugee from Iraq, a music producer, an attorney who specializes in pedophile convictions, a high level theatre actor, a woman professional hockey player - really interesting people who have taught me things as well.  

As for getting fired, sometimes it is the best thing that can happen to you.  We always say that as one door closes - another opens.  10 months ago my gym let me go because they said I stole a client from them when one of my long term clients decided to start training at home and wanted me to do it (he wasn't a member at the gym - he was only there to see me).  I called a few people and had a job in two weeks and now I have a full client roster at a much better facility and I work 1 block from where I live.  It rocks.  You never know when things will work out.


----------



## PWGriffin (Oct 20, 2006)

Someone else had something to say...a woman...

Said we do alot of the same things just changing the order up...we have dumbells and a cable stack...and I don't do a bunch of isolation work...so bear with me!!  

Thing is, I never do the same exercise two workouts in a row.  If I had my way they'd be on a set program, but that's not what the clients like to do.    We push and pull, I can change grips and articulations all day long, but that's what it is going to come down to....And we are VERY limited in equipment.  

I am now being urged to use company guidelines as in BP splits with tons of isolation stuff, cuz the clients want to be sore the next day.  

I hate my life.


----------



## P-funk (Oct 20, 2006)

lol....I love the "we are doing the same thing."

It is teaching.  teaching is training.  If you want to get better you have to learn to do the movement.  you have to be consistent with the movement in order to chart progress for a certain period of time.


----------



## CowPimp (Oct 20, 2006)

P-funk said:


> lol....I love the "we are doing the same thing."
> 
> It is teaching.  teaching is training.  If you want to get better you have to learn to do the movement.  you have to be consistent with the movement in order to chart progress for a certain period of time.



Exactly.  When I first started I tried to get a little too fancy.  I designed several workouts to cycle between so that progress could be charted, yet they didn't feel like they were doing the same movements.  Then I realized how retarded this was, and figured I needed to do what I know worked, instead of what other trainers do.


----------



## PWGriffin (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah no kidding, when my boss brought this up, he wasn't upset or anything...and he tried to use an example....

"you don't like to do the same exercises over and over again do you?"

my reply.

"yes, I love it, I like getting better and better at the same movements...periodizing loading parameters is as much variety as I really need"...

His reply.

"............"

He started spouting off a bunch of bodybuilder nonsense and I had to tell him I'm not a bodybuilder and don't want to be.  That I care more about learning the movements, programming good motor patterns and becoming increasingly efficient regardless of how big I am.  

At two different studios now, a boss will say to me "we aren't training bodybuilders or athletes, blah blah"...Yet they train every client like a bodybuiler, with a bunch of isolation work and drop sets and negatives, supersetting similar movements to exhaust the muscle, body part splits....the list goes on and on.  My workouts seem similar in nature because I actually approach program writing methodically....


----------



## P-funk (Oct 21, 2006)

yea, my boss tries to pull that bull shit with me.  I make him look like a dumb ass though.


"Drills must be done and repetition is the mother of all learning. I am not saying you must drill to drill but it seems that we are getting away from classic teaching too much and we are not seeing progression, actualization, and refinement with coaching now as we are trying to "*enter*train". This is not blueman group it is teaching."

-Carl Valle


----------



## CowPimp (Oct 21, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> Yeah no kidding, when my boss brought this up, he wasn't upset or anything...and he tried to use an example....
> 
> "you don't like to do the same exercises over and over again do you?"
> 
> ...



Haha!


----------



## mike456 (Oct 28, 2006)

personal trainers- write about the most fucked up people you had to work with (imbalances, horrible endurance, weaknesses, mobility problems, etc.), so I can feel better about my self  jk


----------



## P-funk (Oct 28, 2006)

mike456 said:


> personal trainers- write about the most fucked up people you had to work with (imbalances, horrible endurance, weaknesses, mobility problems, etc.), so I can feel better about my self  jk



saw a lady today that is worse than you as far as lower body strength goes!  She couldn't even squat back down to a chair because she was so weak and her balance was so bad.  When she was able to quarter squat down, she couldn't get back up without her hands being placed on her knees and your how femur internally rotating and buckling in.

Saw another lady today with amazing hypermobility in her subtalar joint, she pronated wicked bad, all do to her running time and time again with terrible hip and glute strength on that leg, which had her internally rotating and placing a huge valgus force on her knee, hip and ankle.  Also because of this, her hhips were off alignment and she stood crooked.

I train another guy with a terriblely tight and locked up shoulder (almost like fronzen shoulder).  After 8 weeks of training, he could now get his arm overhead without pain.


----------



## mike456 (Oct 28, 2006)

how do you fix a "frozen shoulder"?


----------



## P-funk (Oct 28, 2006)

mike456 said:


> how do you fix a "frozen shoulder"?



surgery.

He doesn't have frozen shoulder.  He just has an incredibly stiff joint capsule.

lots of streching and mobillity work.  scapular stabilizer work.  his left side is a few inches higher than his right side (very noticable), his left upper traps are super over actice and his left scapula wings out further than the right.


----------



## mike456 (Oct 28, 2006)

P-funk said:


> surgery.
> 
> He doesn't have frozen shoulder.  He just has an incredibly stiff joint capsule.
> 
> lots of streching and mobillity work.  scapular stabilizer work.  his left side is a few inches higher than his right side (very noticable), his left upper traps are super over actice and his left scapula wings out further than the right.



yea I know he doesnt have a frozen shoulder, was just asking, because someone I know has it


----------



## P-funk (Oct 28, 2006)

mike456 said:


> yea I know he doesnt have a frozen shoulder, was just asking, because someone I know has it



not fun.


----------



## PWGriffin (Oct 28, 2006)

I trained someone who couldn't do crunches!!

I train a guy right now who is prolly weaker than most all of my girls.  

I train a woman who pulled a muscle in her back by holding a 7 lb baby in front of her.


----------



## P-funk (Oct 28, 2006)

people unable to do crunches is pretty common.


----------



## CowPimp (Oct 28, 2006)

I train a guy who had surgery on his left leg to remove a tumor.  It involved severing his peroneal nerve and removing and reattaching his gluteus maximus and one or more of the muscles in the hamstring group.

The severed nerve makes for a lack of function and feeling in his ankle.  The only thing he can do is planterflex the ankle, and it is so weak as to be considered worthless.  This also leads to foot drop, so he has to wear a brace that maintains a dorsiflexed state to prevent his foot from dragging as he walks.  His lower lag is also very atrophied.

The other portion of the surgery has left his hip mobility to be very poor, particularly on the frontal and transverse planes.  He also has an incredible amount of scar tissue as a result.

Both of these issues combined makes for a pretty shakey and uneven gate, and he also naturally puts all his weight on his right side when doing things like squatting.

The guy also came to me about 5'8" and 200 pounds.  His body fat was like 47-48% I believe.  He has made great progress though.  He is a very hard worker.  Since he started training with me about 10 weeks ago, he is down to 184 pounds.  His body fat is down about 10% from there.  He has also added about 10 pounds of muscle.  He just did his first chinup last session.  He even fell off the wagon for a couple weeks out of those 10 in terms of his dietary changes and cardio.  Besides that though, he does spinning about 2-3 days a week, cut his drinking way way back, and made changes to his diet.  Also, he is now able to get up and down easier from sitting/laying down, and he said that this is the first time in many years that he has been able to prop his foot up onto something to tie his shoe.


----------



## fufu (Oct 28, 2006)

P-funk said:


> surgery.
> 
> He doesn't have frozen shoulder.  He just has an incredibly stiff joint capsule.
> 
> lots of streching and mobillity work.  scapular stabilizer work.  his left side is a few inches higher than his right side (very noticable), his left upper traps are super over actice and his left scapula wings out further than the right.



My left shoulder is a couple inchs higher than my right.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Oct 29, 2006)

I got a dude with Parkinson's starting next week, should be interesting.


----------



## P-funk (Oct 29, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:


> I got a dude with Parkinson's starting next week, should be interesting.




i have a woman with Multiple Sclerosis


----------



## CowPimp (Oct 29, 2006)

These aren't my regular clients, but I have also trained a woman with a prosthetic leg and a guy who had spinal cord damage in his cervical spine.  I filled in for other trainers on vacation and such for a week or two with these peeps.


----------



## ponyboy (Oct 29, 2006)

I have a deaf client.  It's interesting because he can read lips but I often don't speak normally when I'm talking to him and I have to stay in front of him at all times.  After working with him it almost feels strange to speak at normal volume again.


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 1, 2006)

My manager wants us both to get NSCA certified.  My boss will reimburse me for the testing fees if I pass...my manager wants us to study together and really nail this bitch.  

Only thing is I might not be working here in May when we are supposed to test and I haven't quite finished the take home test for my ISSA cert that I've already paid for.  

I figure I'm going to kick it into high gear with finishing my first cert and then start studying for the NSCA test with my manager...if I'm not working here come May I'll see if my current employer will work out something for me or just pay for it myself.  Either way I'm pretty stoked.  I'm about to learn all that fancy shit patrick and CP are always spoutin off about!!


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 2, 2006)

sigh, no one cares.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Nov 2, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> sigh, no one cares.



That's not true, I am sure you care.  

Take the test, the CSCS was the best thing I could have done and the CPTs physiology part is the exact same thing, you just won't get the same Practical.


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 2, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:


> That's not true, I am sure you care.
> 
> Take the test, the CSCS was the best thing I could have done and the CPTs physiology part is the exact same thing, you just won't get the same Practical.



I was told that I could sit for the CSCS before I get my degree if I wanted to, I just wouldn't get the results or the cert until I finish college.  I'm hoping all my training experience and certifications will look very nice on a grad school application should I decide to pursue a career in physical therapy....


----------



## Dale Mabry (Nov 2, 2006)

Yeah, you can.  There are a ton of people going for PT, and the DPTs are going to get the good jobs, I might consider going into something else unless you go into vestibular or open wound care.


----------



## P-funk (Nov 2, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> I was told that I could sit for the CSCS before I get my degree if I wanted to, I just wouldn't get the results or the cert until I finish college.  I'm hoping all my training experience and certifications will look very nice on a grad school application should I decide to pursue a career in physical therapy....



you want to go to grad school for PT?

What is your undergrad in?


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 2, 2006)

P-funk said:


> you want to go to grad school for PT?
> 
> What is your undergrad in?



I haven't declared a major yet...probably kines.  

I don't really know what I want to do specifically anymore, but it will be in a fitness related field.  

I think I would enjoy doing physical therapy and training only those I want on the side.  Everyone I've talked to in the medical field say it's pretty good stuff, but the schools are hard to get into.  

I don't know I don't know I don't know....I don't start school back until next fall (hopefully) so I have LOADS of time to decide.  But if I go back to school for the next 6-8 years I want a job waiting for me doing something I'm going to enjoy, and something I can do for the rest of my life, and something that I can support a family on.  (or at least myself, I haven't been able to do even that so far)


And what is a DPT>


----------



## Dale Mabry (Nov 2, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> And what is a DPT>



Doctorate in Physical Therapy


----------



## P-funk (Nov 2, 2006)

DPT = doctor of physical therapy.

You should check out kineseology and exercise physiology.  Lots of physical therapy places hire kineseologists and exercise physiologists to work with their clients also.


----------



## Plateau_Max (Nov 3, 2006)

How lucrative is a "good" job as a DPT?


----------



## P-funk (Nov 3, 2006)

Plateau_Max said:


> How lucrative is a "good" job as a DPT?



probably about the same as a masters of physical therapy.  I really don't know if there is much of an advantage to the DPT, except that it looks better and might get you a job over someone with only a masters.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Nov 3, 2006)

At a Medical college physical therapy clinic it gives you a bit more pay, but those colleges pay less anyway.


----------



## Plateau_Max (Nov 3, 2006)

So what's that as far as yearly income range?


----------



## P-funk (Nov 3, 2006)

*AN APOLOGY TO ALL PERSONAL TRAINERS*
*I had no idea how difficult your job is. Now that I've done it, I know the truth.*

*By Michael Boyle*

I need to take a moment to apologize to all the personal trainers who have ever attended a seminar I spoke at or who have read either of my two books.

Why do I feel the need to apologize? Because up until two years ago I had never done personal training. My entire career until two years ago had been spent training groups of athletes. Unfortunately, my lack of experience in the field didn't stop me from telling personal trainers all over the country how to do their jobs. Why shouldn't I, I've trained some of the worlds greatest athletes haven't I?

We have all heard the old saying, "Walk a mile in my shoes." Well in the last two years I have walked a few miles in the shoes of the personal trainer and have come to a few conclusions. The shoes weren't nearly as comfortable as I thought they would be. In fact, for the first few months they didn't seem to fit at all.

What I quickly realized is that strength and conditioning coaches, performance-enhancement specialists, and physical therapists should be careful when telling personal trainers how to do their jobs. Why? Because they have no idea how difficult the job is. Strength coaches and performance-enhancement specialists have huge advantages over personal trainers, but the advantages are not in skills or education.

The biggest advantage is time. One thing you take for granted when working in the world of sports is time. Young athletes have lots of time. Professional athletes in the off-season really have lots of time. The average personal training client does not have lots of time. For the client, time and money are always issues.

Trying to make an impact on a person who works a desk job all week is far more challenging than trying to train an athlete. The average personal-training client will get two to three one-hour workouts a week. The average athletic client probably works out at least 6-8 hours a week. This means that the strength and conditioning coach gets on average one hundred percent more time than the personal trainer. Think about it; twice as much time.

Now combine twice as much time with the really efficient nervous system of the athlete and you have a prescription for success. On the flip side, think about having half as much time with a client who has limited athletic ability. Maybe not a prescription for failure -- but a much tougher job.

I think those of us in the performance-enhancement world have an inflated view of ourselves. This applies particularly to those of us who have the privilege of working with professional athletes. Sometimes we think of ourselves as geniuses. In fact, our clients' talent makes our job very easy. They have time and they learn fast. Often, all you have to do is show an athlete the technique and they will immediately do the exercise even better than you demonstrated. The reality in my mind is that a good personal trainer is harder to find than a good strength and conditioning coach, and the job of the personal trainer is far more difficult than I ever thought. I hope you accept my apology.


----------



## ubercoach (Nov 3, 2006)

*You May Have Fans You're Unaware Of...*



PWGriffin said:


> My manager wants us both to get NSCA certified.  My boss will reimburse me for the testing fees if I pass...my manager wants us to study together and really nail this bitch.
> 
> Only thing is I might not be working here in May when we are supposed to test and I haven't quite finished the take home test for my ISSA cert that I've already paid for.
> 
> I figure I'm going to kick it into high gear with finishing my first cert and then start studying for the NSCA test with my manager...if I'm not working here come May I'll see if my current employer will work out something for me or just pay for it myself.  Either way I'm pretty stoked.  I'm about to learn all that fancy shit patrick and CP are always spoutin off about!!



Here's some "fancy shit" that will hopefully inspire you to get your NSCA cert.,:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y0Gx0sG434

Ubercoach


----------



## CowPimp (Nov 4, 2006)

P-funk said:


> *AN APOLOGY TO ALL PERSONAL TRAINERS*
> *I had no idea how difficult your job is. Now that I've done it, I know the truth.*
> 
> *By Michael Boyle*
> ...



Wow, that's a very non-egocentric kind of thing to say.  Thanks Mr. Boyle, heh.


----------



## CowPimp (Nov 4, 2006)

ubercoach said:


> Here's some "fancy shit" that will hopefully inspire you to get your NSCA cert.,:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y0Gx0sG434
> 
> Ubercoach



Nice link!  I really liked that montage a lot.  A good mixing of men, women, big, small, training, competition, etc!


----------



## P-funk (Nov 4, 2006)

great video.

I wish I had the talent.


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 4, 2006)

P-funk said:


> great video.
> 
> I wish I had the talent.



lol



about mr boyle's apology....

How did he just jump right into training athletes??  He never did any general population work until now??


----------



## P-funk (Nov 4, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I asked him before.  He said he studied athletic training in college, from there he called a bunch of sports agents and said that he was going to start training hockey players (he said he needed to develop a niche and no one was really traning hockey players at that time) so he asked if they could send him some of their young minor league players to condition and get strong for the season.  They did, some of the guys wound up in the NHL, he then got the job with the Bost Burins and the rest, as they say, is history.


----------



## ubercoach (Nov 4, 2006)

*Sorry I Disagree...*

with Mr. Boyle. Having done everything from train small women to have babies to rehabing an 82 year old with a shattered ankle that reguired 4 hrs of surgery to install two 12in pins and 16 screws to spending two years training Karch Kiraly to the '96 Olympic Beach Volleyball Championship, I have to disagree with Boyle's assessment. 
Training anyone, regardless of time, is a matter of educating the client. Program compliance is an expression of the desire of the client to be successful in reaching the mutually agreed upon goal. Any nitwit can get the untrained client to make gains simply by getting them to show up and do some exercise three days a week. 24 Fatness proved this when they first started doing personal training. Their so called "personal trainers" had one weekend of in-house training and a purple shirt proclaiming them "personal trainers". These "personal trainers" knew next to nothing but got few complaints from their clients because they got some results, (untrained individuals showed up and did some exercise!).
Conversely, if you are attempting to improve the performance of a 35 yr. old double Olympic Gold Medallist in his sport, you better know what you're doing. Among the training methods I used with Karch were working him up to 500 lb. full range (Olympic style) squats, leaping onto a 42" platform with 30 lb. dumbells in his hands for sets of 15 reps and sub 1:20 500 meter ERG sprints. Karch's entire periodized training program was completely mapped out prior to initiation of training and adhered to for two years prior to the '96 Games. Not only that, but he peaked right on schedule, at the Games, something many strength coaches will tell you borders on a mystical experience.   
Training Mrs Office Worker or an Olympic athlete provides the same basic challenges, but neither may be said to be inherently more difficult if one has the knowledge base and the skill sets to successfully train the client to reach the goal.
The biggest difference in my experience is that pro athletes pay better.

Ubercoach


----------



## P-funk (Nov 4, 2006)

Isn't that what he is saying though?  The hardest part about the average joe is compliance.  Getting him/her to show up and train.  I don't think he is just talking about "some results".  I think he is talking about getting them really great results.  Which, would take time and compliance (them willing to buy into the program, understand the program and then show up and DO the program).

The elite athlete (while presenting other difficult problems, as you are suggesting) is typically more willing to comply with what you are doing.  They came to you with one goal in mind (get to the olympics...or whatever it may be).  They know what is at stake.  The know they have to listen to you, to guide them and take them the distance.  In that regard it is easier.  You don't have to fight with them to go do their cardio, you don't have to worry about them canceling two weeks worth of sessions because they are "just to busy".  That is not an option.  They know what they need....what they need is YOU....and they come, ready to work!

I don't know if that made any sense?


----------



## FortifiedIron (Nov 4, 2006)

P-funk said:


> supertraining is okay
> the science and practice of strength training by zatsiorsky is okay
> sports power by dave sandler is okay
> jumping into plyometrics by Donald Chu is okay
> ...



Neuromechanics of Human Movement by Enoka is an awsome book.

I got the second edition of Science and Practice of Strength Training by Zatsiorsky, its to similar to the first edition, but still a great book. 

Nothing comes close to Supertraining, to date the only book that made me think outside the box. I'm forever in debt to Mel for all that he ever taught me.

Kc


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 4, 2006)

Made sense to me.  Athletes are for the most part highly self motivated.  It is much more challenging in my experience to train the typical weekend 9-5er than it is to train my clients who do Ironmans and run semi-professionally.  They have a program laid out for them, and they do it.  Obviously I don't need to do the 20 hours of bike/run/swim work these people put in a week with them, my role takes on more of a coaching status.  Athletes are easy to train, because they know what they have to do and they do it.      

With housewives and desk jockeys a large part of the equation is the personal part of personal trainer.  You not only give them exercises to do, you are a motivator, sometimes a confidant - basically somebody that they put a lot of trust in.  It is more about developing the relationship with the client, which is why I've managed to keep many clients for years and consider them my friends as well.  However, that motivation can be the most challenging part because it requires that you find within each person some trigger that will keep them coming back through the door each week and hopefully improve their quality of life and feel better about themselves.  And that trigger can be radically different from person to person.  

Plus simply making small talk for 25 hours a week can be HARD.  I find myself having the same conversation 5 times a day


----------



## P-funk (Nov 4, 2006)

FortifiedIron said:


> Neuromechanics of Human Movement by Enoka is an awsome book.
> 
> I got the second edition of Science and Practice of Strength Training by Zatsiorsky, its to similar to the first edition, but still a great book.
> 
> ...



Yea, supertraining was good.


----------



## CowPimp (Nov 4, 2006)

Another thing Boyle mentioned was in reference to motor patterns.  Active people generally know how to move better.  Ask someone who is 50, never worked out in their life, and works a desk job to do a squat for you.  Oh God.  You might as well say, "I'd like to see you show me the fastest way to fuck up your knees through movement."  

When deadling with your average population you have to spend a lot of time correcting muscular imbalances, improving serious mobility issues, regrooving proper motor patterns, etc.  Is there going to be a need to do this with athletes?  Yes, with some.  However, I'm willing to bet that you won't find the completely defunct movement skills I see in sedentary individuals every day.


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 4, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Another thing Boyle mentioned was in reference to motor patterns.  Active people generally know how to move better.  Ask someone who is 50, never worked out in their life, and works a desk job to do a squat for you.  Oh God.  You might as well say, "I'd like to see you show me the fastest way to fuck up your knees through movement."
> 
> When deadling with your average population you have to spend a lot of time correcting muscular imbalances, improving serious mobility issues, regrooving proper motor patterns, etc.  Is there going to be a need to do this with athletes?  Yes, with some.  However, I'm willing to bet that you won't find the completely defunct movement skills I see in sedentary individuals every day.



I agree 1000%

I train rich people.  There is a big difference in training a determined athlete with a very specific goal in mind and someone who just has too much money and wants to workout in private.  

I have serious problems with clients trusting me.  If I had my way I would work more in the 8-12 rep range with my ladies and we would use a planned program and it would be Full Body Workouts.  Instead I have to use a multitude of different exercises for "variety" (cuz they don't like to do the same thing twice) and I am pushed by my boss and manager to use split routines cuz they want to the clients to be good and sore and the client don't feel like they've done anything unless they are sore.  

  Also, I can't trust my clients to eat what they should and eat often enough, and I can't trust my fatter clients to do the necessary cardio...and most of the time if they do cardio, it's walking slow for 15-20 minutes while they watch tv and then go home and eat a pizza.  

For an athlete, they are training to do their JOB, and that job is very lucrative.  That, in and of itself, is highly motivating.  Most of my clients lead very busy lives and can't even commit to that 2-3 days a week and they travel constantly.


----------



## P-funk (Nov 4, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> I agree 1000%
> 
> I train rich people.  There is a big difference in training a determined athlete with a very specific goal in mind and someone who just has too much money and wants to workout in private.
> 
> ...





Dude, do you ever log onto AIM?


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 4, 2006)

P-funk said:


> Dude, do you ever log onto AIM?



lol, rarely cuz I haven't dl'ed AIM on the computer I most frequently use...I will make a point to do so now heh


----------



## Dale Mabry (Nov 5, 2006)

I think trainers have a hard job, just that a very significant portion of them don't care about educating themselves beyond knowing what a bicep curl and chest flye are.

They deal more with the "What's" rather than the "Why's".


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 5, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:


> I think trainers have a hard job, just that a very significant portion of them don't care about educating themselves beyond knowing what a bicep curl and chest flye are.
> 
> They deal more with the "What's" rather than the "Why's".



Amen to that.  I find that when I can actually explain the reasons why clients should be doing things a certain way they are far more appreciative and stick to it more.


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 5, 2006)

ponyboy said:


> Amen to that.  I find that when I can actually explain the reasons why clients should be doing things a certain way they are far more appreciative and stick to it more.



my bosses have told me to be as brief as possible when it comes to the why's because my clients don't give a shit...go figure.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Nov 5, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> my bosses have told me to be as brief as possible when it comes to the why's because my clients don't give a shit...go figure.



He tells you that so they don't learn enough to do it on their own.


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 11, 2006)

just wanted to say that I stole the idea of stretching as a form of active rest and the clients I tried this with today LOVED it.  They feel like they are always doing something and really getting their money's worth...and most of them I tried this with, really need the extra stretching.


----------



## CowPimp (Nov 11, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> just wanted to say that I stole the idea of stretching as a form of active rest and the clients I tried this with today LOVED it.  They feel like they are always doing something and really getting their money's worth...and most of them I tried this with, really need the extra stretching.



It seems to be popular with clients, yes.  Some people like stretching, but a lot of people think it's "a waste of time."  They don't realize how much time they actually dedicate to stretching when spaced throughout the workout, so it works well.


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 21, 2006)

Ok, I did it again....this time hardcore style.  A lady ran out of the studio in tears last night.  

I WIN.

Background....This lady is bipolar and heavily medicated.  First time I worked her out, she complained about being pushed too hard....I backed off...easy 15 rep sets.  1st compromise.  

She works out twice a week, we do full body routines.  She chooses to waste time walking through the studio talking to other clients and trainers.  We never finish a workout, EVER.  She tells me we've been neglecting her arms...that they are lagging behind...that she wants "pretty" arms.  What does she mean by this?  That we aren't pushing and pulling enough?  No, we need to do more bicep curls.  She also won't try any kinda deadlift not even light one legged romanians...her body isn't "built" to do that.  So now I have to write programs with exercises she "likes" as opposed to exercises she "needs".  Half her full body routine is now curlz and Swiss Ball hypers.  2nd compromise.

She comes in every fucking day whining about something hurting, like I'm a doctor, or like I caused it.  Yet she refuses to see anyone about it.  She came in last night and says.  "we need to do lighter weight and higher reps on teh back stuff, my bra was tight, my back is getting too huge."  I reply that we are already doing 15 rep sets with light weight and that is pretty high.."no, I want to do 25-30 rep sets to "tone" my back up".  I reply, "that isn't going to do you any good, that kind of work is mostly if not all aerobic" 

But I digress....3rd compromise...I let her fucking do 25 rep sets of rows...I am seething at the moment and biting my tongue.  But she just won't shut the fuck up...spouting nonsense about how she's doing the right thing.  I calmly say, "that's not correct."  And I offer to explain why, but she won't have it.  Here it comes, the point where my brain explodes...She mentions how they used to use little weights for a bunch of reps in their AEROBICS CLASS.  I say, "it's an aerobics class, that is aerobic work."  Of course she disagrees indignantly and here comes the tantrum...

She started crying and ran out the fucking door in a fit.  

Best part is.

I'm not in ANY trouble, because it is well known she's a psychopath and she wouldn't stop harassing my boss that night, he almost told her to go fuck herself and gave her a refund.  

WOW.


----------



## P-funk (Nov 21, 2006)

you need to fire tha bitch....like last week.


----------



## Valias (Nov 21, 2006)

For a while i was thinking about being a PT, i don't think i have the patience. I'd yell and scream or something - then lose my job.


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 22, 2006)

Yeah that woman sounds like a psycho and you're better off without her drama.  Wow you put up with a lot of crap.


----------



## slip (Nov 24, 2006)

ponyboy - You have to deal with difficult know-it-alls in any businesss.  I've got a client worse than that, but i make it work.  We train people for a living, its pretty sweet.


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 24, 2006)

slip said:


> ponyboy - You have to deal with difficult know-it-alls in any businesss.  I've got a client worse than that, but i make it work.  We train people for a living, its pretty sweet.



There is NO WAY you train someone worse than this woman.  I call BULLSHIT lmao...You HAVE to meet this lady to fully appreciate her.


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 24, 2006)

slip said:


> ponyboy - You have to deal with difficult know-it-alls in any businesss.  I've got a client worse than that, but i make it work.  We train people for a living, its pretty sweet.



I realize that, but it's not worth the aggravation to deal with someone who is just going to stress you out.  That's when you simply decide that the money is not worth it, which is difficult at the beginning when you are trying to build a clientele.  After you have been doing it for years and are established you can choose who you want to work with and your clients will appreciate it because you're more focused on them.


----------



## crazy_enough (Nov 24, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> There is NO WAY you train someone worse than this woman. I call BULLSHIT lmao...You HAVE to meet this lady to fully appreciate her.


 
Ya u can...Try my mother!


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 24, 2006)

crazy_enough said:


> Ya u can...Try my mother!



gladly...while I'm training your mother, you train the bipolar, know everything mess that is my client.  

I would almost be willing to bet my existence that she is one of the most useless people you will ever meet.


----------



## slip (Nov 25, 2006)

if she knows it all, why not give her what she wants, as long as its safe?  make her happy?


----------



## CowPimp (Nov 25, 2006)

slip said:


> if she knows it all, why not give her what she wants, as long as its safe?  make her happy?



Don't you find it obnoxious to compromise what you have studied/learned because someone paying you for this knowledge thinks they know what works?  Do you want to hear them bitch about how they aren't getting results when the real reason is because you've been training them how they think they should be trained?


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 25, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Don't you find it obnoxious to compromise what you have studied/learned because someone paying you for this knowledge thinks they know what works?  Do you want to hear them bitch about how they aren't getting results when the real reason is because you've been training them how they think they should be trained?



     

I actually told her I felt I was compromising my integrity as a trainer.  

A client will never know what's best for them.  Most women prefer not to lift any weights.


----------



## P-funk (Nov 25, 2006)

Here is the Optimum Sports Performance Blog (it is now live).  Dale just wrote an entry about foolish trainers and the nonsense that goes on in gyms.


----------



## slip (Nov 26, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Don't you find it obnoxious to compromise what you have studied/learned because someone paying you for this knowledge thinks they know what works?



Nope.  They are paying for it.  I explain why/what/how clearly, and spend a lot of time educating them.  If they don't like something, I will either 'sell' it to them or adapt what they want into something effective.  If they are adamant, and extremely difficult, I would be subtly, but very clearly, getting them to acknowledge their lack of training/experience/knowlege/success stories etc and then put them in their place hard.  If that didnt work, Id do it their way, and say its a trial, give it 4 weeks and measure the results (be it weight loss, before after photos, girth measuremnts, performance etc).  Nutter or not, if they trust you they won't argue.  If they don't trust you.....



> Do you want to hear them bitch about how they aren't getting results when the real reason is because you've been training them how they think they should be trained?



Yes, because I would have set the situation up (as above) so that it plays into my hands.  You don't have to 'win' straight away, there are many ways to skin a cat.

I have found this quite interesting after leaving my previous employment which was high pressure sales and management dealing with very difficult people/situations all day.  I tested out a couple of other avenues of employment before settling on PT, and it was interesting to see all the problems people had in dealing with 'difficult' customers that were so easily turned back on themselves and made into a positive for the staff/company.  Same principle with PT, I couldnt successfully and quickly rehab a hip replacement patient, i dont have the experience or training, but for one of my mentors, it would be easy - experience and training. 

Mind you, this 10yrs of sales/management is proving a hinderance in other ways, as it has quite an affect on my approach to people.


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 26, 2006)

I see what you're saying slip, and if we had an unlimited time to work with individuals we could try all sorts of crap.  But since we already (should) know what's best for the clients, why not get to it right away?  Ethically, we should be doing that, instead of letting a client waste their money and spin their wheels.  

Also, clients hold PT's in pretty high regard and have expectations set high from the beginning most of the time.  So a month with no results will be a very bad reflection on the trainer IMO.  

But hey, in my case, I have to do EXACTLY what you said.  Let her do what she wants.  My boss told me to look at it as if it's an easy session, I don't have to think or plan out anything.  Just let her do what she wants.  If she decides what we're doing isn't working, that's when I tell her from now on we do things MY way.


----------



## CowPimp (Nov 26, 2006)

slip said:


> Nope.  They are paying for it.  I explain why/what/how clearly, and spend a lot of time educating them.  If they don't like something, I will either 'sell' it to them or adapt what they want into something effective.  If they are adamant, and extremely difficult, I would be subtly, but very clearly, getting them to acknowledge their lack of training/experience/knowlege/success stories etc and then put them in their place hard.  If that didnt work, Id do it their way, and say its a trial, give it 4 weeks and measure the results (be it weight loss, before after photos, girth measuremnts, performance etc).  Nutter or not, if they trust you they won't argue.  If they don't trust you.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's an interesting perspective on things.  I can appreciate that route.  However, I generally don't have to do a whole lot in the way of compromise with people, unless we're talking about working around an injury, pain. discomfort, etc.  

I try to make it sound like I'm all knowing from the first session I deal with them.  I explain and educate as you said, and that generally boosts their confidence in me.

I have only had one client at the studio ever start with me and decide to switch to another trainer thereafter.  Only reason being he had a gross case of upper cross syndrome and internally rotated humeri.  He also had lower extremity distortion; not so much in the way of an anterior pelvic tilt, but his femurs were internally rotated and lower legs externally rotated.  He had knee pain, and his doctor said it was because he had no cartilage in his knees.  I was amazed at the doctor's ability to diagnose this without an x-ray, MRI, or some other imaging technique.  Of course, this guy wanted to bench press all day, and I wouldn't have it.


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 26, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> That's an interesting perspective on things.  I can appreciate that route.  However, I generally don't have to do a whole lot in the way of compromise with people, unless we're talking about working around an injury, pain. discomfort, etc.
> 
> I try to make it sound like I'm all knowing from the first session I deal with them.  I explain and educate as you said, and that generally boosts their confidence in me.
> 
> I have only had one client at the studio ever start with me and decide to switch to another trainer thereafter.  Only reason being he had a gross case of upper cross syndrome and internally rotated humeri.  He also had lower extremity distortion; not so much in the way of an anterior pelvic tilt, but his femurs were internally rotated and lower legs externally rotated.  He had knee pain, and his doctor said it was because he had no cartilage in his knees.  I was amazed at the doctor's ability to diagnose this without an x-ray, MRI, or some other imaging technique.  Of course, this guy wanted to bench press all day, and I wouldn't have it.



DAYUM.  Internally rotated femurs and externally rotated lower legs!!  Not to mention a slew of other problems, JESUS.  

Could you have fixed all this??  How would you have done it?


----------



## P-funk (Nov 26, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> DAYUM.  Internally rotated femurs and externally rotated lower legs!!  Not to mention a slew of other problems, JESUS.
> 
> Could you have fixed all this??  How would you have done it?



it is pretty common for people to have internally rotated femurs and externally rotated lower legs.  I have seen many people jogging down the road wiath that type of posture.


----------



## fufu (Nov 26, 2006)

P-funk said:


> it is pretty common for people to have internally rotated femurs and externally rotated lower legs.  I have seen many people jogging down the road wiath that type of posture.



True story. I observe people's gaits when walking to class and I'd say atleast 50% of people I see walk with externally rotated lower legs.


----------



## P-funk (Nov 26, 2006)

fufu said:


> True story. I observe people's gaits when walking to class and I'd say atleast 50% of people I see walk with externally rotated lower legs.



oh yea, aren't you a kineseology major?

Start looking at the way people walk, move and pick things up in the real world (a natural environment).  You can learn a lot about the body and biomechanics.


----------



## fufu (Nov 26, 2006)

P-funk said:


> oh yea, aren't you a kineseology major?



Yes, I am.



P-funk said:


> Start looking at the way people walk, move and pick things up in the real world (a natural environment).  You can learn a lot about the body and biomechanics.



Yeah, I've been doing this recently, it is pretty interesting to see how people go about movement.


----------



## vortrit (Nov 26, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> gladly...while I'm training your mother, you train the bipolar, know everything mess that is my client.
> 
> I would almost be willing to bet my existence that she is one of the most useless people you will ever meet.



That lady is...

Probably one of my ex girlfriends!


----------



## CowPimp (Nov 26, 2006)

fufu said:


> True story. I observe people's gaits when walking to class and I'd say atleast 50% of people I see walk with externally rotated lower legs.



Yeah, it's insane.  I've noticed a lot of people walking like that as well.  I was blown away when I started monitoring people's gaits on the street periodically.


----------



## CowPimp (Nov 26, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> DAYUM.  Internally rotated femurs and externally rotated lower legs!!  Not to mention a slew of other problems, JESUS.
> 
> Could you have fixed all this??  How would you have done it?



I think so.  I've smoothed one of my clients out pretty good on both of those distortions, although the postural distortions weren't as exaggerated as the client whom I previously mentioned.


----------



## fufu (Nov 26, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Yeah, it's insane.  I've noticed a lot of people walking like that as well.  I was blown away when I started monitoring people's gaits on the street periodically.


----------



## gopro (Nov 26, 2006)

Stopping by and looking around, LOL!


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 27, 2006)

gopro said:


> Stopping by and looking around, LOL!



kick off ur shoes and make yourself at home stranger!!


----------



## slip (Nov 27, 2006)

yeah, i havent really had to use those tactics much at all, its 99% instill confidence, educate, then train.  the lazy 60+ couple both over 220lbs just have to be convinced very hard to do any work.  

its amazing noticing all the issues with peoples gait/posture now that I look.  Dont find many people that look mostly ok, even at a quick glance.


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 27, 2006)

slip said:


> yeah, i havent really had to use those tactics much at all, its 99% instill confidence, educate, then train.  the lazy 60+ couple both over 220lbs just have to be convinced very hard to do any work.
> 
> its amazing noticing all the issues with peoples gait/posture now that I look.  Dont find many people that look mostly ok, even at a quick glance.



well I train nothing but lazy fucks with money.  Problem is we kinda share clients, being I work at a private studio.  So they like somebody cuz they do "fun" exercises and don't push at all...then i have to start teaching/training...


----------



## slip (Nov 28, 2006)

sharing clients.... how does that work?  you paid as an employee of the studio?


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 28, 2006)

Just an an aside topic, do you guys get tipped at xmas?  Last year I moved to a newer, more upper class gym with many more clients and I'm wondering what I should expect.  At my old place it was hit or miss, some people would give cash and some would give me a bottle of wine or nothing or a gift certificate.  I always give something small to my clients - do you?


----------



## P-funk (Nov 28, 2006)

ponyboy said:


> Just an an aside topic, do you guys get tipped at xmas?  Last year I moved to a newer, more upper class gym with many more clients and I'm wondering what I should expect.  At my old place it was hit or miss, some people would give cash and some would give me a bottle of wine or nothing or a gift certificate.  I always give something small to my clients - do you?



In NYC, I got huge tips.  I raked in a couple grand (I think $3000) last year in christmas gifts alone.  One guy gave me a check for $750.

I gave stuff to my clients like cards and some stuff that Ivonne baked.


The clients this year, where I am at, I doubt will give me anything (not as much money as NYC) and I am not giving them anything as I am making no money at this place, so I have nothing to give.


----------



## CowPimp (Nov 28, 2006)

This will be my first Christmas as a trainer.  I have no idea what to expect, although I can say for sure that there are a lot of wealthy people that I train.  I train a few lawyers (Not personal attorneys; for example, one of them looks for loopholes in the policies of large banks that would allow for fradulence), people who work high up in the government, etc.

I feel like I should give some gifts, but I don't know what to give, and I don't have money to buy that many people gifts!


----------



## P-funk (Nov 28, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> This will be my first Christmas as a trainer.  I have no idea what to expect, although I can say for sure that there are a lot of wealthy people that I train.  I train a few lawyers (Not personal attorneys; for example, one of them looks for loopholes in the policies of large banks that would allow for fradulence), people who work high up in the government, etc.
> 
> *I feel like I should give some gifts, but I don't know what to give, and I don't have money to buy that many people gifts!*



I know!  And you don't have the money to give free sessions either!

Just give a holiday card.

I hate the holidays because things like this make it so damn akward.

Do I have to buy my emplyoer something?  I am at a small studio now...do I have to give them something?  I don't even like them.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Nov 28, 2006)

I got $100 buck from the guy who gets me clients, and $50 from my only client last year.  I can kind of tell who I will be getting something from this year, and if they have kids I get the kids something, if they don't I typically give something fitness related to them.

I was told by a friend who knows about this shit that the client typically gets the person they hire something, but that person doesn't have to give anything in return.


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 28, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> This will be my first Christmas as a trainer.  I have no idea what to expect, although I can say for sure that there are a lot of wealthy people that I train.  I train a few lawyers (Not personal attorneys; for example, one of them looks for loopholes in the policies of large banks that would allow for fradulence), people who work high up in the government, etc.
> 
> I feel like I should give some gifts, but I don't know what to give, and I don't have money to buy that many people gifts!



I have a friend that does girly soap things so I got all the women a small package from her with soaps and stuff, 12 clients for $120 total.  The men I figure either a small bottle of booze or they may not expect anything - depends on the person.  I think it's worth the investment, especially if they return the favour by buying more sessions.


----------



## CowPimp (Nov 28, 2006)

ponyboy said:


> I have a friend that does girly soap things so I got all the women a small package from her with soaps and stuff, 12 clients for $120 total.  The men I figure either a small bottle of booze or they may not expect anything - depends on the person.  I think it's worth the investment, especially if they return the favour by buying more sessions.



Yeah, if you look at it that way I guess it makes sense.  Still though, $120 is a lot to me.  I will have $200 leftover in my bank before my next paycheck for the first time in a long time.  I have been going down to the dollar for so many months I don't even want to think about it anymore.

I'm going to ask the more veteran trainers at my studio what they do for the Holidays.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Nov 28, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Yeah, if you look at it that way I guess it makes sense.  Still though, $120 is a lot to me.  I will have $200 leftover in my bank before my next paycheck for the first time in a long time.  I have been going down to the dollar for so many months I don't even want to think about it anymore.
> 
> I'm going to ask the more veteran trainers at my studio what they do for the Holidays.



Why not offer a dynamic movement class for free.  30 minutes of that and they will be begging you to not give them anymore.


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 28, 2006)

Alright guys...here is your time to shine

I have a lady training for a marathon, but has decided not to do it, because she feels she can't lift weights with us and train for the marathon at the same time.  I told her I would ask around about changes we could make to her training program to HELP her instead of hold her back.  

Any of you guys have experience working with endurance runners?  What did their training look like?  (the marathon is in 6 weeks.  She's gotten up to 18 miles...but feels wiped for days after such a run)  

Any advice?


----------



## P-funk (Nov 28, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> Alright guys...here is your time to shine
> 
> I have a lady training for a marathon, but has decided not to do it, because she feels she can't lift weights with us and train for the marathon at the same time.  I told her I would ask around about changes we could make to her training program to HELP her instead of hold her back.
> 
> ...



For Ivonne's training we did strength work 2 days a week up to about 8 weeks out (she is now around 4 weeks out), as that is when the mileage started to get higher.  One upper, one lower and one total body.  Olympic lifts on two fo the days.

Now we do two total body workouts, olympic lifts split between days, and the intensity is at strength maintenance.  Day 1 (tues) is heavier work in the 8 rep range (strength maintenance) and then day 2, either thursday or friday she does lower inensity work (since it is closer to her long run day, which is saturday) and lowers the rest intervals to keep her conditioning up.

It depends on where they are in their training and how many miles they are doing per week.  Also, listening to their body and feedback and knowing when you can push and when to back off.


----------



## P-funk (Nov 28, 2006)

Just saw that the marathon is 6 weeks away.....She has only run 18 miles so far???


----------



## slip (Nov 28, 2006)

is she carbing up enough?  we had to put a guy on 4500cal/day as he was a cyclist, and had crappy performance.  performance went through the roof with just diet change.  we had him on 2 weights sessions per week, not hugely taxing, and very specific to his cycling.


----------



## slip (Nov 28, 2006)

ah an another thing.  CP - are you new at this studio?  You seem to have such an extensive technical knowledge base but you're not making any money - why?


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 29, 2006)

Funny thing is I just had a guy that did the same thing and was wondering if he could qualify for the Boston Marathon and he was 8 weeks out from his.  However, his mileage base was WAY higher than your client.  I'm sure she's focused on just finishing the event.  

What I did instead of focusing on pure strength (because there simply wasn't time) was focusing on things like technique and posture - making sure that he was running as upright as possible to get the most oxygen, making sure his gait was as even as possible through balance and stabilizer work for his ankles and knees.  Tons of stretching and myofascial release because his muscles were REALLY tight all over which wasn't helping either.  Even subtle things like stride length and where he was holding his hands while he was moving.  I also coached him on nutrition during his longer runs because he was taking in way too little fluid and calories during his runs (I don't know how he finished them to be honest).  And then we built towards proper race week nutrition as well.  He shaved 18 minutes off of his personal best and qualified for Boston - without ANY real strength work.  Basically just taking bad technique, posture and nutrition and correcting all of that because for a runner 6-8 weeks out from a marathon, there isn't time.  Focus on the things that are going to improve her performance on that day and she'll remember you for it.


----------



## P-funk (Nov 29, 2006)

ponyboy said:


> Funny thing is I just had a guy that did the same thing and was wondering if he could qualify for the Boston Marathon and he was 8 weeks out from his.  However, his mileage base was WAY higher than your client.  I'm sure she's focused on just finishing the event.
> 
> What I did instead of focusing on pure strength (because there simply wasn't time) was focusing on things like technique and posture - making sure that he was running as upright as possible to get the most oxygen, making sure his gait was as even as possible through balance and stabilizer work for his ankles and knees.  Tons of stretching and myofascial release because his muscles were REALLY tight all over which wasn't helping either.  Even subtle things like stride length and where he was holding his hands while he was moving.  I also coached him on nutrition during his longer runs because he was taking in way too little fluid and calories during his runs (I don't know how he finished them to be honest).  And then we built towards proper race week nutrition as well.  He shaved 18 minutes off of his personal best and qualified for Boston - without ANY real strength work.  Basically just taking bad technique, posture and nutrition and correcting all of that because for a runner 6-8 weeks out from a marathon, there isn't time.  Focus on the things that are going to improve her performance on that day and she'll remember you for it.





yea, that is the key.  Especially because the woman is so close now.

Also, work with the soft tissue, flexibility, foam roll, etc.....


----------



## CowPimp (Nov 29, 2006)

slip said:


> ah an another thing.  CP - are you new at this studio?  You seem to have such an extensive technical knowledge base but you're not making any money - why?



I have class 4 days a week as well.  I can't work as many hours as I'd like.  Although it's only 9 credit hours, two of the classes have uncredited labs which take up extra time, and my commute times are pretty high so that sucks up a lot of time.  The past couple of weeks have also been slow.  Lots of clients on vacations, a couple of surgeries (Nothing major), etc. 

On top of that, I just paid my long standing credit card debt off about two weeks ago.  I was funneling a bunch of money toward that from each paycheck to protect my credit.  My family also has its ups and downs constantly when it comes to money, so I help out where I can; this is the reason I stopped going to school full time in the first place.  For example, my mom was in a car accident not long ago.  She got whiplash, possible herniation in her cervical spine, severe shoulder impingment and other dysfunction, etc.  She has a house cleaning business, so this has screwed her tremendously in the money department (Though legal action will help her here hopefully).

Finally, I just don't get paid that much.  My experience level is pretty low, so I can't command a whole lot in terms of compensation.  My credentials are nothing special either, I just do a lot of reading and learning on my own.  That doesn't get you pay raises though (Even though my client base is pretty solid).

Make sense?


----------



## P-funk (Nov 29, 2006)

slip said:


> is she carbing up enough?  we had to put a guy on 4500cal/day as he was a cyclist, and had crappy performance.  performance went through the roof with just diet change.  we had him on 2 weights sessions per week, not hugely taxing, and very specific to his cycling.



I train a cyclist.  he competes in moutain bike races and road races.  We lift twice a week.  We do lots of strength work when he is further out from his races and then less strength work as it gets closer (reverse. periodization kind of...almost like Ivonne's marathon program).


----------



## fufu (Nov 29, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> I have class 4 days a week as well.  I can't work as many hours as I'd like.  Although it's only 9 credit hours, two of the classes have uncredited labs which take up extra time, and my commute times are pretty high so that sucks up a lot of time.  The past couple of weeks have also been slow.  Lots of clients on vacations, a couple of surgeries (Nothing major), etc.
> 
> On top of that, I just paid my long standing credit card debt off about two weeks ago.  I was funneling a bunch of money toward that from each paycheck to protect my credit.  My family also has its ups and downs constantly when it comes to money, so I help out where I can; this is the reason I stopped going to school full time in the first place.  For example, my mom was in a car accident not long ago.  She got whiplash, possible herniation in her cervical spine, severe shoulder impingment and other dysfunction, etc.  She has a house cleaning business, so this has screwed her tremendously in the money department (Though legal action will help her here hopefully).
> 
> ...




I'm sure you are a great trainer. You'll be in good business with enough time in the field.

You make me seem so damn lazy!


----------



## CowPimp (Nov 29, 2006)

fufu said:


> I'm sure you are a great trainer. You'll be in good business with enough time in the field.
> 
> You make me seem so damn lazy!



I appreciate that.  I feel like I should be doing more though.  I think I might be picking up another client or two here soon.  That would help me out a lot.

It's weird, I have this conditional raise right now.  If I crack 24 completed sessions a week then I get 10% more money.  Like I said though, the past two weeks have sucked.  Prior to that I was hovering in the 25-30 range, which was good.


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 29, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> I appreciate that.  I feel like I should be doing more though.  I think I might be picking up another client or two here soon.  That would help me out a lot.
> 
> It's weird, I have this conditional raise right now.  If I crack 24 completed sessions a week then I get 10% more money.  Like I said though, the past two weeks have sucked.  Prior to that I was hovering in the 25-30 range, which was good.



I'm working a shit load more now.  Last check had almost 80 hours on it.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Nov 30, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> I appreciate that.  I feel like I should be doing more though.  I think I might be picking up another client or two here soon.  That would help me out a lot.
> 
> It's weird, I have this conditional raise right now.  If I crack 24 completed sessions a week then I get 10% more money.  Like I said though, the past two weeks have sucked.  Prior to that I was hovering in the 25-30 range, which was good.



I hate that, the business guys always want you to train each person as many hours as possible, regardless of whether or not it is good for the client.  I want a good amount of hours, but I don't want to do it knowing it is of no use to someone I am training.  Even my rich clients, I have a problem telling them they need 4 sessions a week when they don't.

On a side note, I have a client who has had very very slow results, and she has fluctuated so much.  I am not allowed to talk to them about diet too much because they guy who gets me clients has a nutritionist.  Anyway, I finally got sick of her being frustrated and me looking bad because her results are slow (She is the wife of a pro athlete) so I told her to start a food journal, and she said absolutely not.  Long story short, we went over what she was doing and she told me she was looking at carbs, not calories, based off something her old trainer told her.  I tell her to look at cals, not carbs, give her a number to shoot for, and bam, 6lbs over a week and a half, including thanksgiving week. 

I am an idiot, I was trying to quote CP and ended up editing his post.  I suck at the internet.


----------



## CowPimp (Nov 30, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:


> I hate that, the business guys always want you to train each person as many hours as possible, regardless of whether or not it is good for the client.  I want a good amount of hours, but I don't want to do it knowing it is of no use to someone I am training.  Even my rich clients, I have a problem telling them they need 4 sessions a week when they don't.



I don't have any clients I train more than three days a week.  I usually suggest doing some type of cardio, if warranted, on their days they don't see me, but that's about it.




> On a side note, I have a client who has had very very slow results, and she has fluctuated so much.  I am not allowed to talk to them about diet too much because they guy who gets me clients has a nutritionist.  Anyway, I finally got sick of her being frustrated and me looking bad because her results are slow (She is the wife of a pro athlete) so I told her to start a food journal, and she said absolutely not.  Long story short, we went over what she was doing and she told me she was looking at carbs, not calories, based off something her old trainer told her.  I tell her to look at cals, not carbs, give her a number to shoot for, and bam, 6lbs over a week and a half, including thanksgiving week.
> 
> I am an idiot, I was trying to quote CP and ended up editing his post.  I suck at the internet.



I hate that about nutritional advice.  We have a nutritionist where I work.  She seems to know her shit, but those clients I have who can't afford to see her, or simply don't want to spend that extra money, don't get that benefit.  I try to offer up as much general advice as I can without stepping on her toes too much.


----------



## P-funk (Nov 30, 2006)

lol, In NYC, my first manager was a total scum bag.  Once this really rich guy walked into the gym to buy training, he just moved to NYC from California, where he had two trainers that trained him twice a day 6 days a week (just total over training and basically doing it because this guy had the funds to pay for it).  The guy came in and bought 48 sessions with me on his first day.  He then told me how he wanted to train 6 days a week.....this guy was a total train wreck and couldn't do anything (suprising...you would think after training with two trainers, twice a day, 6 days a week for the past year and half, you would learn something).  I was like..."no way.  Lets start with three days.".  My manager was so angry with me....He was like "are you kidding me?  this guy is paying for this.  You train him 5 days a week!  he is throwing the money at you."

no ethics.


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 30, 2006)

That's part of the problem - the people in charge often don't have the ethics because their paycheck is based on sales.  I often tell people that they only need to see me once a week even if they want to twice - sometimes because I'm too busy but often because they simply don't need to.  I can't imagine seeing someone five days a week.    

I generally cap myself at about 30 sessions a week only because I feel that if I'm doing 8 people a day it's way too mentally draining and exhausting.  Then the client isn't getting what they should.  I see it all the time at my new gym, trainers putting in 11 session days just to make money.  At least unlike some of you my boss leaves me alone and lets me do my own thing.


----------



## CowPimp (Nov 30, 2006)

P-funk said:


> lol, In NYC, my first manager was a total scum bag.  Once this really rich guy walked into the gym to buy training, he just moved to NYC from California, where he had two trainers that trained him twice a day 6 days a week (just total over training and basically doing it because this guy had the funds to pay for it).  The guy came in and bought 48 sessions with me on his first day.  He then told me how he wanted to train 6 days a week.....this guy was a total train wreck and couldn't do anything (suprising...you would think after training with two trainers, twice a day, 6 days a week for the past year and half, you would learn something).  I was like..."no way.  Lets start with three days.".  My manager was so angry with me....He was like "are you kidding me?  this guy is paying for this.  You train him 5 days a week!  he is throwing the money at you."
> 
> no ethics.



Besides the ethical implications, I don't want to see that same guy 6 days a week!  Heh.


----------



## PWGriffin (Nov 30, 2006)

My biggest problem with more than 3 days a week is that some of these people's schedules are fucked and they end up coming 4 days in a row.  Sometimes we don't even know when their next session will be until we schedule them AFTER the initial workout.  ex. we do full body on monday...they then schedule for tuesday.  SIGH.


----------



## Nate K (Nov 30, 2006)

If you informed him on your opinion but he still wanted to come 5 days a week would you not take him.


----------



## alwaysbelieve1 (Nov 30, 2006)

*The question I get asked all the time is: Should I still use weights outside our sessions or should I just train weights during our session?*

I train a bit differently than most of the other trainers in my gym as well as area.  My clients realize that, often times have requested me(I don't get my own clients- only train them- I love that system as it allows me to focus directly on training), and then when training with me think it's too hard and want to go back to the conventional bodybuilding style workouts.  I do not mess around.  I train my clients hard.  They see results because we work hard.  After all, they have been taking the easy way out most their lives so why not work hard for a short time a week. 

My sessions are only 30 minutes due to the intensity and trust me not many can last much longer than that.  No one really needs hour long workouts unless they are training for a specific event or sport of some type working on techniques, etc.

The type of workouts in which I train are meant to be done as fast as possible. To do them in that fashion, you'd ideally take no breaks. But let's be serious; 90% of people need to take breaks in some shape or form. That being said, they take breaks(water or towel off sweat breaks) if they're needed, but just keep in mind that they are striving to get the best time in completing the workout(as I time most of them). It just frustrates me when they come to my sessions- and even text me ahead of time telling me to kick their butts and then when it gets down to it they wanna weenie out and take long breaks.  Take your quick drink break to maintain hydration, but this is not to catch your breath too much or recover beyond 10-20 seconds. Training in this style is both very intense and highly metabolic. As most of you already know the client's body will respond in such a way that it will give them the physical adaptations to continually improve with consistency.

Hope that makes sense to why I do things the way I do and not the way others do them. If anyone has any further questions please be sure to let me know.  I just had to express my frustrations here because they have been seriously getting to me lately.


----------



## slip (Nov 30, 2006)

If someone wants to train with me 5 days a week, great, just have to program it so that you don't overtrain them.  Stretching sessions, active recovery, skill/technique sessions etc.  Take them shopping for a session and show them how you shop (or should shop) for good eating.  Take them for a bike ride and show them how to lead a healthy lifestyle without doing a hardcore workout.

PW - full body one day, mild cardio with a core and stretching session the next?


----------



## PWGriffin (Dec 1, 2006)

slip said:


> If someone wants to train with me 5 days a week, great, just have to program it so that you don't overtrain them.  Stretching sessions, active recovery, skill/technique sessions etc.  Take them shopping for a session and show them how you shop (or should shop) for good eating.  Take them for a bike ride and show them how to lead a healthy lifestyle without doing a hardcore workout.
> 
> PW - full body one day, mild cardio with a core and stretching session the next?



well we stretch everyday...but yeah, I always figure something out.  I can't leave the studio with the clients though, so no bike rides or shopping sessions.  Good ideas though


----------



## PWGriffin (Dec 1, 2006)

alwaysbelieve1 said:


> *The question I get asked all the time is: Should I still use weights outside our sessions or should I just train weights during our session?*
> 
> I train a bit differently than most of the other trainers in my gym as well as area.  My clients realize that, often times have requested me(I don't get my own clients- only train them- I love that system as it allows me to focus directly on training), and then when training with me think it's too hard and want to go back to the conventional bodybuilding style workouts.  I do not mess around.  I train my clients hard.  They see results because we work hard.  After all, they have been taking the easy way out most their lives so why not work hard for a short time a week.
> 
> ...



I like working with trisets and quadsets...but 10-20 seconds rest for the entire 30 minutes?  Do all your clients just want to lose weight?  I have to force some of my clients to rest longer at times (stretching between trisets for example) so the weights don't drop off due to fatigue.  

Cardiovascular fitness is only one aspect of overall fitness IMO.


----------



## ponyboy (Dec 1, 2006)

alwaysbelieve1 said:


> *The question I get asked all the time is: Should I still use weights outside our sessions or should I just train weights during our session?*
> 
> I train a bit differently than most of the other trainers in my gym as well as area.  My clients realize that, often times have requested me(I don't get my own clients- only train them- I love that system as it allows me to focus directly on training), and then when training with me think it's too hard and want to go back to the conventional bodybuilding style workouts.  I do not mess around.  I train my clients hard.  They see results because we work hard.  After all, they have been taking the easy way out most their lives so why not work hard for a short time a week.
> 
> ...




You must have a very specific clientele.  A lot of people with injuries, or people who are untrained or unbalanced while they might enjoy the intensity could not handle that type of workout.  I have a couple of clients that I do that type of thing with, but I know they can handle it.  What kind of people do you train?


----------



## ponyboy (Dec 1, 2006)

And here's yet another topic for trainers to discuss - how do you deal with female clients that may be flirting with you?  I have a girlfriend so it's no big deal but I do have two female clients right now who have conversations with me about their dating lives and make flirty remarks all the time.  Obviously I just ignore it and maintain professional standards.  Or, has anyone here ever dated a former client?


----------



## PWGriffin (Dec 1, 2006)

ponyboy said:


> And here's yet another topic for trainers to discuss - how do you deal with female clients that may be flirting with you?  I have a girlfriend so it's no big deal but I do have two female clients right now who have conversations with me about their dating lives and make flirty remarks all the time.  Obviously I just ignore it and maintain professional standards.  Or, has anyone here ever dated a former client?



Don't date someone you train, but you can train someone you date.  heh


----------



## Dale Mabry (Dec 1, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> Don't date someone you train, but you can train someone you date.  heh



I don't do either.


----------



## alwaysbelieve1 (Dec 1, 2006)

ponyboy said:


> You must have a very specific clientele.  A lot of people with injuries, or people who are untrained or unbalanced while they might enjoy the intensity could not handle that type of workout.  I have a couple of clients that I do that type of thing with, but I know they can handle it.  What kind of people do you train?



I train all types.  They know what they are getting into, for the most part due to the fitness director(sales) informing them, when they sign up.  I have clients who have come to me with herniated discs in different regions of the spine, pregnant, patellar knee issues, hip issues, elbow tendinitis, missing deltoids due to surgery, and the list goes on.  

I even training one of my clients for a year before he broke both his wrists in a motorcycle accident and we continued with his training this way.  For obvious reasons we did not use his hands, but I came up with methods of training & incorporating his arms for upper body movements.  

I program design according to goals, limitations, conditioning level, etc.

My client's goals range from wanting to lose wt., maintain it, gain, want superior conditioning, and even athletic competition.  They range in ages from 13 to the 70's.  You would be surprised what a little 95lb.(not frail) 71 year old woman can handle.
I'm sure they range just as all of your clients do. 

I have a lot of fun with my clients, and like I said, they know exactly what they are getting into when we begin since my fit director tells them as well as I do when I have my first consult with them.


----------



## CowPimp (Dec 1, 2006)

ponyboy said:


> And here's yet another topic for trainers to discuss - how do you deal with female clients that may be flirting with you?  I have a girlfriend so it's no big deal but I do have two female clients right now who have conversations with me about their dating lives and make flirty remarks all the time.  Obviously I just ignore it and maintain professional standards.  Or, has anyone here ever dated a former client?



Fuck professionalism.  If I were training a hottie who wanted it, she could have it.  

Kidding kidding...


----------



## CowPimp (Dec 1, 2006)

alwaysbelieve1 said:


> *The question I get asked all the time is: Should I still use weights outside our sessions or should I just train weights during our session?*
> 
> I train a bit differently than most of the other trainers in my gym as well as area.  My clients realize that, often times have requested me(I don't get my own clients- only train them- I love that system as it allows me to focus directly on training), and then when training with me think it's too hard and want to go back to the conventional bodybuilding style workouts.  I do not mess around.  I train my clients hard.  They see results because we work hard.  After all, they have been taking the easy way out most their lives so why not work hard for a short time a week.
> 
> ...



Most people need some base levels of strength before they need conditioning on that level.  Not that a base level of conditioning isn't important, but that is beyond "base".  

How do you take the time to make sure the form is right on everything before throwing them into a program like that?  

Do you spend a few sessions making sure all the exercises are done at a satisfactory level?  

What about those clients who have movement dysfunctions that need to be worked on with more remedial exercise choices?

Do you ever focus more on strength and rate of force development with your clients?


----------



## alwaysbelieve1 (Dec 1, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Most people need some base levels of strength before they need conditioning on that level.  Not that a base level of conditioning isn't important, but that is beyond "base".
> 
> How do you take the time to make sure the form is right on everything before throwing them into a program like that?
> 
> ...



I actually train most all my clients on basic "base" programs focused on a 3 phase system I established.  The phases are as follows:

*PHASE ONE*
2-3 Months
STRENGTH/STABILITY
Specific Core Training
Balancing
Joint Support


*PHASE TWO*
3-6 Months
ENDURANCE/STABILITY
Specific Muscle Fiber Recruitment
Retraining Body To Function Properly
Developing Muscle Endurance and Functional Capability


*PHASE THREE*
3-6+ Months
POWER/STABILITY
Develop Overall Performance
Peak Power Training (plyometrics)
Synergistically Using Phase One and Two
Speed Development​
Once they get to the third phase they are ready to train as I have described in my post in question.  Does that make sense?

The only exception to my rule is that if they are, based upon my assessments, an athlete or individual who already possess some level of knowledge as well as already possesses some form of strong base in their fitness "tool box".  I will then accelerate them through these phases according to their conditioning and stability progress.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Dec 2, 2006)

Don't you think it would make more sense to train endurance before strength?  While you are training for endurance, you are losing strength, something I would not want to do in a cycle just prior to power training.  I am not a big fan of linear periodization, but if I were to do it, I would want peak levels of strength going in to power training.


----------



## CowPimp (Dec 2, 2006)

That makes sense AB1.  I'm glad to see you don't just throw them into such programs right away.  I have just seen far too many clients doing jump squats in the middle of a circuit when they can't even squat right.

The other day I saw a trainer having her client do jump squats.  Upon a painfully loud landing she would end up being bent over so far that her chest was almost touching her legs and he femurs were flopping all over the place.  There was zero stability on the frontal plane.  I later saw the women doing some variation of squats that wasn't explosive and it looked the same.


----------



## P-funk (Dec 2, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> That makes sense AB1.  I'm glad to see you don't just throw them into such programs right away.  I have just seen far too many clients doing jump squats in the middle of a circuit when they can't even squat right.
> 
> The other day I saw a trainer having her client do jump squats.  Upon a painfully loud landing she would end up being bent over so far that her chest was almost touching her legs and he femurs were flopping all over the place.  There was zero stability on the frontal plane.  I later saw the women doing some variation of squats that wasn't explosive and it looked the same.



yea, I always see this too.....Why do trainers have begining clients doing jump squats......I guess the next question is.....why do trainers have clients doing jump squats without teaching landing mechanics first?


----------



## CowPimp (Dec 2, 2006)

P-funk said:


> yea, I always see this too.....Why do trainers have begining clients doing jump squats......I guess the next question is.....why do trainers have clients doing jump squats without teaching landing mechanics first?



Speaking of which, what kind of cues does everyone give to teach landing mechanics?  I use the basics: land quiet/soft, stick the landing, let the knees and hips flex under control for absorption.


----------



## P-funk (Dec 2, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Speaking of which, what kind of cues does everyone give to teach landing mechanics?  I use the basics: land quiet/soft, stick the landing, let the knees and hips flex under control for absorption.



land soft.  try and land between the ball of your big toe and the arch of your foot.

I start them with single response jumps and stick the landing and hold.

So, stand up straight, countermovement, jump, stick the landing and hold for a 3 count, stand up straight and repeat.

If they are having a hard time, I sometimes use an aerobic step to have them jump onto so that it decreases the ground reaction force since they are not having to come all the way back down to the ground.


----------



## CowPimp (Dec 2, 2006)

P-funk said:


> land soft.  try and land between the ball of your big toe and the arch of your foot.
> 
> I start them with single response jumps and stick the landing and hold.
> 
> ...



Though I don't generally do a whole lot in terms of RFD with my clients, I do sometimes throw jumps onto a box at them.  I feel that's an excellent place to start in terms of learning to control their body in a reactive fashion.  I also like DB hang snatches a lot; MB tosses of various types are great too if they train at a time where the place is pretty open.


----------



## P-funk (Dec 2, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Though I don't generally do a whole lot in terms of RFD with my clients, I do sometimes throw jumps onto a box at them.  I feel that's an excellent place to start in terms of learning to control their body in a reactive fashion.  I also like DB hang snatches a lot; MB tosses of various types are great too if they train at a time where the place is pretty open.



yea, I usually do the jumping stuff with the high school kids I train and the adult recreational athletes.

DB swings are also a great exercise (for anyone really).  Some gyms have the med. balls with the handle on them, which lend themself really well to this exercise.

Other RFD stuff you can do with general population clients are quick feet hops (kind of like jumping rope with out the rope....just hoping in place).  I usually do them for time (say 10sec. of hopping all out, 20sec rest).  Med. Ball throws are good too....overhead, chest pass, etc.


----------



## CowPimp (Dec 2, 2006)

P-funk said:


> yea, I usually do the jumping stuff with the high school kids I train and the adult recreational athletes.
> 
> DB swings are also a great exercise (for anyone really).  Some gyms have the med. balls with the handle on them, which lend themself really well to this exercise.
> 
> Other RFD stuff you can do with general population clients are quick feet hops (kind of like jumping rope with out the rope....just hoping in place).  I usually do them for time (say 10sec. of hopping all out, 20sec rest).  Med. Ball throws are good too....overhead, chest pass, etc.



Actually, instead of DB swings I do KB swings with clients sometimes.  I like those a lot, and there are a lot of fun variations that require coordination and keep things interesting.

The rope is cool too.  I haven't used that with anyone recently, but jumping rope is good stuff.


----------



## P-funk (Dec 2, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Actually, instead of DB swings I do KB swings with clients sometimes.  I like those a lot, and there are a lot of fun variations that require coordination and keep things interesting.
> 
> The rope is cool too.  I haven't used that with anyone recently, but jumping rope is good stuff.



Oh yea, KB's work well.  Most gyms don't have them...I wish mine did...You can do lots of great stuff, like teaching a goblet squat.

Jumping roping is good too.  You can use it as part of a conditioning/metabolic circuit at the end of a training session or at the beggining of the workout as part of a warm up (just following the activation shit).


----------



## CowPimp (Dec 2, 2006)

P-funk said:


> Oh yea, KB's work well.  Most gyms don't have them...I wish mine did...You can do lots of great stuff, like teaching a goblet squat.
> 
> Jumping roping is good too.  You can use it as part of a conditioning/metabolic circuit at the end of a training session or at the beggining of the workout as part of a warm up (just following the activation shit).



Yeah, I'm happy we have KBs where I work.  I use them sometimes in my own programs for fun.  A couple of trainers really love 'em and have people do all kinds of crazy shit I would never do.

How effective do you find goblet squats?  When I teach the squat I like to use pile squats and front DB squats with or without a box eventually moving to a box squat with the bar on their back.


----------



## P-funk (Dec 2, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Yeah, I'm happy we have KBs where I work.  I use them sometimes in my own programs for fun.  A couple of trainers really love 'em and have people do all kinds of crazy shit I would never do.
> 
> How effective do you find goblet squats?  When I teach the squat I like to use pile squats and front DB squats with or without a box eventually moving to a box squat with the bar on their back.



When I have someone totally new, I usually teach the DB plie squat on one day (although I hate that name because it makes me think of the way peole teach it with a super wide stance and toes turned out...looking like a Ballet move).  I just call it DB sumo squat.

On the other day I either do DB or med. ball goblet squat or DB front squats.  Typically with the guys I can do the DB front squats.  With the ladys, they have a hard time racking the DBs on their shoulders, they complain about how it hurts their shoulders and sometimes they are two weak to maintain good form yet while holding two DBs.  So, i usually use the med. ball with them and then try and progress is up to DB suitcase squats (holding DBs at the side) and then to BB squats (usually with a box to teach them to sit down to).  The guys will usually go DB front squats and then to either back squats (again, usually with a box) or BB front squats.


----------



## mike456 (Dec 4, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> That's an interesting perspective on things.  I can appreciate that route.  However, I generally don't have to do a whole lot in the way of compromise with people, unless we're talking about working around an injury, pain. discomfort, etc.
> 
> I try to make it sound like I'm all knowing from the first session I deal with them.  I explain and educate as you said, and that generally boosts their confidence in me.
> 
> I have only had one client at the studio ever start with me and decide to switch to another trainer thereafter.  Only reason being he had a gross case of upper cross syndrome and internally rotated humeri.  He also had lower extremity distortion; not so much in the way of an anterior pelvic tilt, but his femurs were internally rotated and lower legs externally rotated.  He had knee pain, and his doctor said it was because he had no cartilage in his knees.  I was amazed at the doctor's ability to diagnose this without an x-ray, MRI, or some other imaging technique.  Of course, this guy wanted to bench press all day, and I wouldn't have it.



If you remember, did his knee caps point outward?
wich muscles internally/externally rotate the femur, and wich muscles internally/externally rotate the lower leg?

what did you have him do to fix the problem? 

PS this is a great thread


----------



## P-funk (Dec 4, 2006)

mike456 said:


> If you remember, did his knee caps point outward?
> wich muscles internally/externally rotate the femur, and wich muscles internally/externally rotate the lower leg?
> 
> what did you have him do to fix the problem?
> ...



I already answered that question (RE: muslces that internally rorate the knee and femur in your other thread).


----------



## fufu (Dec 4, 2006)

Hailing back to point in thread talking about observing people's gait and movement just going around in public - Today I was watching people walk while heading to class and one individual I noticed didn't even have his heels make contact with the ground during his stride cycle. It was uncanny, his heels didn't even come close(relatively close considering he was walking). Must be hell on his knees. I almost wanted to ask him about it and see if he was trying to improve his gait. 

Actually a minute before that I saw some guy pronating like a motherfucker. I mean, usually I can notice pronation when I look at someone squat, but I find it harder to identify when just watching someone walk. I could literally see that he was only supporting himself walking with the inside of his foot.


----------



## CowPimp (Dec 4, 2006)

mike456 said:


> If you remember, did his knee caps point outward?
> wich muscles internally/externally rotate the femur, and wich muscles internally/externally rotate the lower leg?
> 
> what did you have him do to fix the problem?
> ...



Kneecaps inside of the foot, lower legs turned out.

As P said, he answered that question for you.

Like I said, he didn't want to train with me because I didn't have him do shit that exacerbated his problems, which is apparently what he wanted.


----------



## mike456 (Dec 5, 2006)

CowPimp said:


> Kneecaps inside of the foot, lower legs turned out.
> 
> As P said, he answered that question for you.
> 
> Like I said, he didn't want to train with me because I didn't have him do shit that exacerbated his problems, which is apparently what he wanted.



oh, yea P gave me the lsit of muscles.

what are some corrective exercises?


----------



## Nate K (Dec 5, 2006)

fufu said:


> but I find it harder to identify when just watching someone walk.



It's not hard, just look.


----------



## fufu (Dec 5, 2006)

Nate K said:


> It's not hard, just look.



I do look. It is harder to notice their feet turning towards the inside just walking. When they load the weight on it becomes more prenounced. I can see that they are externally rotating which is a sign, but I'm not sure that is enough to tell.


----------



## CowPimp (Dec 5, 2006)

Nate K said:


> It's not hard, just look.



A lot of times people aren't wearing the most revealing clothing either.  It would be easier to tell if everyone wore shorts and walked around in bare feet/socks.


----------



## PWGriffin (Dec 11, 2006)

You guys won't fuckin believe this.  Another nutjob doesn't want to workout with me.  He's clostrophobic...sometimes when he's lifting heavy weights, he freaks out....

Well one of the trainers here wrote a program for him.  I was just goin through the motions...it was early in the morning...we weren't even really talking, so I know I didn't say something wrong or whatever.  Well we get to doing some push presses and chin ups.  well on the chins he put his feet down and touched on every rep, said he swings when he doesn't touch the ground.  Well on the next set I put a little dumbell between his feet and lightly hold his foot a little so he wouldn't swing.  He freaks on like the third rep and runs off.  He even yelled at me for no reason.     I let him relax for a minute...when he said he was fine we went on to push presses.  When we worked up to the heaviest weight (boss has him pyramiding up) he freaked on like the 2nd rep and ran off saying he just couldn't do it today....that it's not me it's him...he said he had a bad day yesterday blah blah.  I asked again if he was alright or if I could do anything for him and he said again "it's not you it's me...I'm sorry"....

He wrote an email to the owner and talked to josh about it.  He wouldn't tell them anything, he even told them not to mention it to me.  The ONLY thing that he would tell them was that I didn't clip the weights on the push presses and the weights "clinging" made him feel like they were going to crash down on him and he couldn't breathe.. 

I was like "wtf...I wouldn't tell someone we couldn't use clips..he never said anything about it".....I just don't use them when I train...I don't have to and never have..(maybe on deadlifts) so I don't always think to use them, unless I notice weights sliding and then I go ahead and clip em...

I got wrote up on the notion that not clipping weights is a safety hazard..


----------



## P-funk (Dec 11, 2006)

why is everyone at your gym insane?


----------



## ponyboy (Dec 11, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> You guys won't fuckin believe this.  Another nutjob doesn't want to workout with me.  He's clostrophobic...sometimes when he's lifting heavy weights, he freaks out....
> 
> Well one of the trainers here wrote a program for him.  I was just goin through the motions...it was early in the morning...we weren't even really talking, so I know I didn't say something wrong or whatever.  Well we get to doing some push presses and chin ups.  well on the chins he put his feet down and touched on every rep, said he swings when he doesn't touch the ground.  Well on the next set I put a little dumbell between his feet and lightly hold his foot a little so he wouldn't swing.  He freaks on like the third rep and runs off.  He even yelled at me for no reason.     I let him relax for a minute...when he said he was fine we went on to push presses.  When we worked up to the heaviest weight (boss has him pyramiding up) he freaked on like the 2nd rep and ran off saying he just couldn't do it today....that it's not me it's him...he said he had a bad day yesterday blah blah.  I asked again if he was alright or if I could do anything for him and he said again "it's not you it's me...I'm sorry"....



You deal with some hilarious people.  Get this on video and put it on youtube, I bet you could make money off of these freaks.


----------



## CowPimp (Dec 11, 2006)

Haha, you should start making psych evaluations part of every client assessment.


----------



## P-funk (Dec 11, 2006)

you should get crazy when the clients get crazy.....run around the gym after them making loud noises and shit.


----------



## CowPimp (Dec 11, 2006)

P-funk said:


> you should get crazy when the clients get crazy.....run around the gym after them making loud noises and shit.



Hahaha!


----------



## PWGriffin (Dec 11, 2006)

P-funk said:


> you should get crazy when the clients get crazy.....run around the gym after them making loud noises and shit.



I just pictured daffy duck goin off....



One more complaint and I'm fired.  Literally.  I admit...I'm stressed.  I thought I was past this.  What's funny is that when the original complaints were made, it was people that didn't feel comfortable training with the new guy....(some were under the impression that I was IN TRAINING and they were "guinnea pigs")  I now train 90% of the people who complained (even the lady who ran out of the studio crying) and they are FINE with me.  Some have even bragged on me, but it doesn't matter.  

I actually have nothing to go off of with the last complaint...he won't give them any more details than he has and said he doesn't want to talk about it...he even told them not to mention it to me.  If he knew I was written up and my job is in danger, I bet he would feel awful.  It's funny...he told them he didn't want to hurt my feelings, but he may cost me my job...


----------



## alwaysbelieve1 (Dec 11, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> I just pictured daffy duck goin off....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's a bunch of B.S.!!!  He's just a little cry baby with no backbone to speak to you directly regarding his many insecure issues.

Hopefully you can bounce back from this one even stronger!


----------



## ponyboy (Jan 23, 2007)

Time to bump this thread back to the top because I need some replies from experienced trainers...more of an admin situation than anything else...

As some fo you know, I work for a chain gym that is very badly run and managed, but just recently we have had a new director come in who has ruffled a few feathers to say the least.  Anyway, my situation is that I have clients who have trained with me and for some reason or another, the session has not been paid out (to me).  Now that I'm going back a month or so, there are a few cases of this, and basically I want to get paid for what I did, which is service the client.  

The current director is passing the buck saying it's not his problem because it should have been dealt with when the old guy was there.  The old guy is at a new location and is dealing with his own crap.  I'm pissed because it shouldn't be this complicated to deal with simply getting paid for services rendered at the time.  From what I've heard from other people who have worked there for a while, the company does it's best to screw people over this way frequently so they never have to pay the trainer, which obviously pisses me off.  They also expire sessions and claim that they do not have to pay them out because they can't - but the trainer is still expected to fulfill the sessions in the contract.  So we're expected to work for free because our client went away and didn't train for a couple of months.   

I'm just trying to decide the best way to deal with this situation.  I can take care of it one way - by faking a session and charging one through without doing the work, unfortunately if I get caught I get fired (not likely, but you never know).  The other way is to complain to a higher up individual like the regional director, but he will likely do the same thing - they seem to be trained to do these things.  I'm not the only one this is happening to, but I want to deal with it.  With the cancelled/expired ones I'm tempted to just sick the client on the manager but that would be a last resort.  

Frankly I can go to any other gym but I have a full client roster and just a year ago dealt with rebuilding and I don't want to do it again, so I need to deal with this somehow.  Any suggestions?


----------



## slip (Jan 23, 2007)

Im assuming you have PT/management meetings regularly...... (but maybe not)

In meeting, raise hand, "just want to ask a question"

"why is this company refusing to pay me for sessions I have done?"

I've been getting them some good ones in meetings.  Do it really nicely, non agressive, and give them a choice, either look like bastards and cause a massive drama, or conform/do the right thing.  Fun.


----------



## P-funk (Jan 23, 2007)

take your clients with you when you leave.  fuck 'em.


----------



## ponyboy (Jan 23, 2007)

slip said:


> Im assuming you have PT/management meetings regularly...... (but maybe not)
> 
> In meeting, raise hand, "just want to ask a question"
> 
> ...



Yeah, we have one on Thursday that should be interesting because the new guy in charge is being a bit of a douche.  I'm figuring out that I'm currently owed about $300 outstanding and I'm more than a little pissed about it.  And then companies wonder why they lose good people...

Patrick, trust me I would love to but I just changed gyms a year ago, now my roster is full again and I don't want to go through the hassle of leaving at this point.  I'm definitely going to start telling all of them I'm willing to train them at home or anywhere else they would like though.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 9, 2007)

I'm so close to ditching on the guy who gets me at home clients.  He continually fucks over the clients and makes poor decisions based on money.  He gave me 4 people who want to train all at once.  I hate fucking doing that, and what's worse is that even though he charges more, I get paid the same as 3 people.  The best part is that of the 4 people, 1 wants to get bigger, 1 needs to lose weight, and he has no idea what the other 2 want to do.  I told him I didn't like doing this, and he said I could just put the girls up on the elliptical for intervals while I was spotting the guy(s).  It fucking irritates me that people like this get so much business.


----------



## Double D (Feb 9, 2007)

Sometimes its all about the money with people! Saying to the ladies go ahead and do an hour of cardio while I work with the guys on weights. Pretty dumb.


----------



## fufu (Feb 9, 2007)

Hmm this thread needs some positivity. 

For you trainers -

what is the most gratifying experience you have had with a client?


----------



## shiznit2169 (Feb 9, 2007)

Dale Mabry said:


> I'm so close to ditching on the guy who gets me at home clients.  He continually fucks over the clients and makes poor decisions based on money.  He gave me 4 people who want to train all at once.  I hate fucking doing that, and what's worse is that even though he charges more, I get paid the same as 3 people.  The best part is that of the 4 people, 1 wants to get bigger, 1 needs to lose weight, and he has no idea what the other 2 want to do.  I told him I didn't like doing this, and he said I could just put the girls up on the elliptical for intervals while I was spotting the guy(s).  It fucking irritates me that people like this get so much business.



Dale, read your sig and you'll remember how the world is


----------

