# Clen/T3/Ketotifen advise



## paddy (May 12, 2010)

I could do with some advice if anyone can help me out, from browsing the site over the last few months I have found some really good info here.
I have never taken any steroids/AAS, the only thing I have taken so far is ECA's.

I'll give a little info on my training & diet so you can see I'm not one of these people who just heard about clen/t3 last night and thought, I want some of that!
I'm looking for some users opinions who have actually used clen.

I'm 24, 5'12 & 98KG.

I've been weight training now for 4 years, when I started I was just under 130KG of solid fat. The last 7 months I have really put the effort in.
I've built up some good experience over that time.

The problem I have is that I'm finding it impossible to bring my gut below 35 inches.

On my legs and upper body I am very lean.
Last time I had my body fat measured was about 10 weeks ago.
Calfs(17.5") - 2mm, biceps - 3mm, triceps 5mm.... and the stomach was 29mm.
I actually got 13 points checked but don't have them in front of me right now.

If you were to add the normal 4 points for calculating bodyfat percentage I was at 15%, but with the abdominal skin fold, its more like 25%.

I currently do steady state cardio 4-6 times per week, first thing in the morning on an empty stomach.
95% of the time I do 1hr, but never less than 45mins. Heart rate always in the 135-140bpm range.

I also do a 4 day split weight training in the evenings after work, again they usually last 45mins-1hr.
These would be fairly intense, big weight medium rep range of 8 - 12.

I don't bench heavy but I have strong legs.
Deadlifted 170KG x4 last week, I could knock out a couple of sets of 140/150KG x15 no problem. Ass to the floor squats - 140KGx6. Leg Press 250KG X15. Barbell Shrugs - 185KG x9. DB Bicep curls 20KG x10. etc etc... My only problem with lifting is I have a weak wrist from a break years ago so my max bench is 90KG, but I usually keep it around 70/80KG and make sure I hit it hard.

I have been taking ECA's since October last year.
They are underground so there is no dosage or label but I assume they are around the norm E-25/30mg - C-250mg - A-200mg.
I don't take any more than 2 per day as I am quite sensitive to stimulants, and I always only take them for 3/4 weeks then take 2/3 weeks off.

They have served their purpose and I still get the same feeling from them, but fat loss has just come to a sticking point.

My diet is fairly strict.

6am - wake + ECA
7am - am cardio + 5 or 6 scoops of Xtend
8am - 70g oats + protein shake
10am - 8 egg omlette(2 yolks) and 1 small tin of tuna + animal flex
12pm - 125g of baked salmon and portion of vegtable soup
2pm - 70g of brown rice and 2 chicken fillets or a serving or prawns + animal pak
5pm - 2 tins of tuna(47g of protein)
6pm - ECA
6.30pm - weight training + 5 or 6 scoops of Xtend, protein shake when finished.
8pm - fillet steak and 200g of white potato or sweet potato
11pm - ON casein and 15-20ml of Udos oil

Monday to Saturday the diet is solid, I take Sundays off and have one or two cheat meals.
I also up the carbs to around double the about above every 4th day, and then drop back down to normal the 5th day.

I've hit a plateau and **I think** I need something to kick start the fat burning process again.
I purchased the Clen/T3 stack from clenbuterol.co.uk along with the ketotifen.
I got 200x Clen - 40mcg 200x T3 - 100mcg & 300x ketotifen is 1mg.
Now I know I probably wont even use half of this but its better having a buffer there rather than running out.
I plan on running this for 6-10 weeks max.

Anyway I personally think I put a lot of time and effort into my training and diet and really just want to start burning fat again and get down to sub 15% bodyfat, thats the goal anyway!

I have been researching this for months now so have a good idea on tapering and dosages/time lines.
I'm also booked in to get a full set of blood work done next week just to make sure everything is in check before I start the stack, as there could be an underlying problem with my natural T3 production or something else not right. Probably overkill but it will put my mind at ease.
I like to be sensible about things like this and make sure everything is OK before I start.

SO! if your still reading I'd like to get peoples opinions on what they would do or adjust training/diet wise and if clen/t3/keto is a good option for me.

Thanks, Paddy


----------



## BrothaBill (May 12, 2010)

Well we are in a similar situation. I sort of plateaued recently and was looking for a jumpstart.
Just started T3, clen and ketotifen last Saturday.

I researched it as well and most people said to throw in an anabolic steroid of some kind so I am going to do 500mg of Test Enanthate per week. I took an injection on Monday. People said that t3 will burn both fat and muscle so an anabolic is needed.
I had the test anyhow so I was going to do that. 
I found that in just a few days now. I have a noticeable change in bodyfat (oddly enough my wife says my muscles look smaller, not sure if its just the fat gone over the top). 
What I did was kick up my cardio though to take advantage of the stack. So I am doing 1.5 hours of cardio, about 1800 calories burned in the morning, another 1200 calories in the evening since I started.
Plus 30-45 minutes of lifting one major bodypart per day.
So I guess my suggestion to you to hasten the time to your finish line is to double your cardio by adding an extra session if your schedule permits.

Also, I have cut the starches out and have a protein centered meal with lots of veggies but little oats, potatoes or bread. Being Irishman myself, I grew up with potatoes and bread on the table every night so this is only temporary until I get to single digit bf% and then can slowly add them back in when I switch to maintenance diet and exercise regimen as opposed to the cutting cyle I am on now.

I was thinking about the getting my thryoid tested but I figured meh, Ill test it awhile after the t3 as thats when it really means something. My main point is to maximize all the cardio I am doing. So far it seems to be noticeable in just the last five days. Of course Ive burned 15,000 calories on the treadmill in that time. So who knows?

Good luck and consider adding an anabolic into the mix to prevent burning your muscle away with the T3.

Oh and almost forgot, I am not 100% sure but I was taking 1mg of ketotifen at night and the next morning didnt feel so hot. Then night before yesterday, I took 2mg of keto before bedtime (I take the clen in the morning) and I felt like complete dogshit yesterday, tired as hell all day. Didnt take it last night, took diphenhydramine instead, woke up feeling 1000% better than yesterday. Not positive it was the ketotifen hangover, could just be the 450 mg of test prop/enanthate I took on Monday kicking in that made me feel so much better. But if you feeling like shit, trying substituting benadryl for the keto. I have read that it does the same thing and much less expensive


----------



## paddy (May 13, 2010)

Cheers for that Bill.

I've probably read all the same stuff you have by the sounds of things.

Although I'm gonna try avoid the anabolics for the time being, I just planned on upping my protein intake to around 350/400g per day.

Thats a LOT of training! Your CNS will be taking a hell of a battering with that much training & stimulants, when I do double sessions back to back for days/weeks on end I usually end up with some kind of poxy cold or flu.
Unfortunately I work 10/11 hrs a day so monday-tuesday-thursday-friday its cardio-work-weights-sleep... its hard to find the time to have a wank never mind anything else..

I had read about people using benadryl as opposed to the ketotifen but I didn't know weather or not the Irish version would have ketotifen in it. After some quick googling I see diphenhydramine(benadryl) - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diphenhydramine has what you need, the only difference being thats a first gen antihistamine and ketotifen - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketotifen is a second gen antihistamine... some interesting reading there, the ketotifen looks like its sold over here under Claritin Eye.

I think when I do start I'll give the ketotifen a bash and take it from there. Just out of interest what brand/strength did you get the clen/t3/ketotifen? this is the one I got clenbuterol.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=5 and how much benadryl are you taking each night?


----------



## BrothaBill (May 14, 2010)

Yup on the reading thing 

As far as the anabolics are concerned. I'm on prescription testosterone replacement, just at a lower dose than I will be taking, I just upped the dose. I figured if Im going to do it, might as well up the test dose.

The training Im used to by now, I did feel run down all the time and kept doing it, but that was b/c my natural testosterone level was in the dirt, dont know if that was from the cardio.
But since I got my test levels back up I feel great, like no stopping me on the treadmill and dont feel sick at all. Thats hard to work those hours and get to the gym, luckily I work on easy street, 4 days a week 7 hours a day so I have the time.

Now about the benadryl/diphenhydramine, I happened across a web article written about clen and that but I dont have it to link to you, sorry, but it seemed very well written and scientific explanations. If you have access to ketotifen and it doesnt make you groggy then no reason not to use that as that what most of the info. about suggests using that. I just am currently testing it out on myself if it was the keto causing me to feel bad and not sure yet. Goign to try it again this weekend and let you know.

I got mine from a liquid research company. So it was 12,000 mcg of clenbuterol @ 200mg/mL in a 60mL bottle and the T3 was 60mL at 100mg/mL total of 6000mg. Just have to use a syringe to measure the dosage. Its cheaper that way, with the keto it was a little over a hundred bucks in the states.

Let me know how you going with it. So far I am liking what I see after a week. This is exactly what I needed to kickstart off the plateau

What dosage you using? You probably came across the same six week cycle with the clen/t3. I figure I am going to stick with that but not taking the 2 weeks off and alternate with ECA like they suggest b/c I am taking the antihistamines diphen or keto to keep up the beta receptors


----------



## WFC2010 (May 15, 2010)

just dont go over 40-60mcg t3 a day!!!


----------



## paddy (May 15, 2010)

BrothaBill said:


> Yup on the reading thing
> 
> As far as the anabolics are concerned. I'm on prescription testosterone replacement, just at a lower dose than I will be taking, I just upped the dose. I figured if Im going to do it, might as well up the test dose.
> 
> ...



Shit that was much cheaper than what I got... only my keto was a generic, the T3 and clen they seem to make themselves. They do have a certificate on their website confirming the grade/quality but sure the only way I'll know if they are any good is when I start taking them.

I haven't started yet, I'm starting in the last day of May for 10/12 weeks max. I plan on running the clen for 6 weeks minimum and I'll see where I'm at then. I have read conflicting studies/opinions on running the T3 for longer than 3 weeks, so I still haven't made my mind up on that. I was thinking something like this if I only run T3 for 3 weeks

W1 clen
W2 clen
W3 clen/t3/keto
W4 clen/t3/keto
W5 clen/t3/keto
W6 clen/keto
W7 eca
W8 eca
W9 clen/keto
W10 clen/t3/keto
W11 clen/t3/keto
W12 clen/t3/keto

Then run guggulsterones for 2/3 weeks to get natural T3 production and my metabolism working again...

But I am leaning towards just running T3 straight through to week 6 or 7 and then just tapering off everything after that. The lads I train with have ran it that long without any problems and they know their stuff, but I still want to look into it a bit more before committing to it...



WFC2010 said:


> just dont go over 40-60mcg t3 a day!!!



that's a bit low don't you think? I had planned on going up to 100mcg then tapering back off and going with guggulsterones or something similar from week 7-10.

This part below is an email from clenbuterol.co.uk, which I'm not sure what way to take. Either the 100mcg tabs I got are not of a high grade(which I doubt as T3 can't be that expensive in bulk) or it is a high grade and he is just thinking of turn over? He recommends building up to 300mcg for 2/3 weeks, that sounds like an extremely high dosage from everything I have read on T3 so far.



			
				clenbuterol.co.uk said:
			
		

> Dear Customer,
> 
> please note that we have these two cytomel products available and stock can change daily so we cannot reflect it on our website. One is a mix with T3+T4, and the one you received is pure T3 100mcg.
> 
> ...


----------



## paddy (May 15, 2010)

paddy said:


> I'm 24, 5'12 & 98KG.



I just weighed myself for the first time in over a month today, and I was 95.6KG... I don't like weighing scales, I usually just use a mirror or calipers. My waist is still the same size...


----------



## nd2bhge (May 15, 2010)

from what i have researched t3 can be run for a longer period of time than what was previously the norm. i wish i could find the study but basicly there was a mis diagnosed hypothyroidism and was on t3 for years and after the meds were discontinued thyroid function returned to normal. Im not saying to stay on it for months and months on end but from my personal experience i can run it for 12wks and have no problems coming off. 
just be sure when you do come off you run another fat burner (ex hydroxycut or lipo 6)for at least three weeks while your thyroid returns to its natural function.
as for the dosage if your not on aas don't go over 50 maybe 60mcg like wfc said and if on aas i only go up to 75mcg with great results.
hope this helps.


----------



## paddy (May 15, 2010)

nd2bhge said:


> from what i have researched t3 can be run for a longer period of time than what was previously the norm. i wish i could find the study but basicly there was a mis diagnosed hypothyroidism and was on t3 for years and after the meds were discontinued thyroid function returned to normal. Im not saying to stay on it for months and months on end but from my personal experience i can run it for 12wks and have no problems coming off.
> just be sure when you do come off you run another fat burner (ex hydroxycut or lipo 6)for at least three weeks while your thyroid returns to its natural function.
> as for the dosage if your not on aas don't go over 50 maybe 60mcg like wfc said and if on aas i only go up to 75mcg with great results.
> hope this helps.



Cheers for that, I think the study your referring to is (Greer,M. N Engl J Med 244:385, 1951) where he had people on T3 for up to 30 years and their thyroids returned to normal levels within 2 weeks. Now that sounds extreme!

Google these if you want to see other studies done on it

Greer,M. N Engl J Med 244:385, 1951

N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4 Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy. Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH. 

J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1975 Jul;41(1):70-80 Patterns off recovery of the hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis in patients taken of chronic thyroid therapy. Krugman LG, Hershman JM, Chopra IJ, Levine GA, Pekary E, Geffner DL, Chua Teco GN 
Sources: Iron, Jhotsauce7

The problem I have with the T3 tabs I have is that they are 100mcg and are tiny, splitting them into 2 will be hard enough never mind 4!

I was planning on going up to 100mcg, but again, I'll look into this before starting. Obviously I don't want to lose all my hard earned muscle while I use it.

I won't be using any AAS, never have, not yet anyway...


----------



## bigpapabuff (May 17, 2010)

love the clen and t3 combos, with dosage I try to keep both at or below 100 mcgs, good luck.


----------



## paddy (May 21, 2010)

Bill how are you gettin on with them?

what way did you work the dosages?


----------

