# Calling all hgh experts



## exphys88 (Nov 11, 2011)

I'm considering trying out some hgh for 6 months while I allow my body to make a full recovery from gear.  My research has led me to this plan.  Any suggestions and/or criticism is welcome.  Additionally, any sharing of your experience w hgh is encouraged.

5 on 2 off
1st month: 2 iu/day
2nd through 6th: 4 iu/day

My goals are to lean up a bit and add some mass. (isn't everyone lol)

Questions:
What sides do you get?
Is 4 iu enough for strength gains?
Anyone try IP Hygetropin?


----------



## heavyiron (Nov 11, 2011)

I had no sides at all but 4 iu did not really make any noticeable effects for me other than fat loss. Your proposal of 6 months is good but I would run some Test with the GH to get synergy.


----------



## ~RaZr~ (Nov 11, 2011)

Will be watching....


----------



## LightBearer (Nov 11, 2011)

I think 2IU for the first month is low, maybe work ur way up to 4 within 2 weeks
For mass ur going to need more than 4 for 6months
I'm weary of IP hgh bc he says his stuff is super potent and only 1 to 2 iu should be taken, which is a flat out joke, ask anyone who's taken pharm grade and 2iu ain't gonna give you bad sides or much results, which leads me to believe it may be lypholyzed insulin since he's telling guys don't take too much


----------



## exphys88 (Nov 11, 2011)

The Hygetropin I'm looking isn't the ones you're referring to.  You're thinking of the blue tops nipertropin.
And maybe I'm going too low, I don't believe in taking risks w this stuff just for fat loss.  I've read to work your way up, that's why I thought a month would be reasonable.  How fast do you guys go?
Thanks


----------



## heavyiron (Nov 11, 2011)

I start at 3.3iu GH daily and then move to 5iu GH daily in 10 days or so. Uncle Z's blue tops.


----------



## exphys88 (Nov 11, 2011)

Do you see strength gains at that dose?


----------



## heavyiron (Nov 11, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Do you see strength gains at that dose?


Not solo but if you are on gear absolutely. AAS seem to work synergistically with HGH over the long haul.


----------



## VictorZ06 (Nov 11, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Do you see strength gains at that dose?



I'm no expert, but I did not.  

I started with 4iu daily and within the second week, me wrists, ankles, feet, and fingers started to bloat.  I also got some horrible CTS sides.  I had a few options, lower my dose, cut it all together, or punch through the sides.  Mind you, at the time I was on a cycle when I first started (I use the shit year round now) and like Heavy said, it's best to use it when "on" because of the synergy of test and GH together.  Both cause hyperplasia.

I later saw my sides start to go away, however....I did go up one full shoe size and my wrists got thicker.  I had to go and drop a couple hundred bucks on some more links for my dress watch.  I also had to get a few new pairs of shoes.  About 2 months in, I started to notice some shredding of some fat around my abs, my skin also started to look a lot cleaner all over my body.  I did not notice any gains in strength...I continued to use it after my cycle was complete.  About 4 months in at 4iu daily, I noticed some more hardening and a little more vascularity....and I felt like a god.  I had more energy, I felt more active, basically....an overall good sense of well being.

At 6 months in, I changed protocols all together and bumped my dose up to 10iu ED during a rather heavy bulk program.  I used this dose in conjunction with AAS and slin.  I put on a solid 23lbs. of LMB.  For me, that's a shit load of LMB, keeping in the single digit bf%.  I don't think I can lose those gains, I was around 220lbs. at the time, and ended up just under 250lbs. and had a bf% of 7.5.  I later tossed IGF & T3 into the mix, and I slowly began to add more LBM.  Got harder and much more defined.  

I tried several different protocols, but I have never used GH alone for long periods of time....just time in between cycles.  But again, I was using slin as well.  You can start using HGH now, and by the time you are ready for your next cycle....the shit will be working well in your body.  With the addition of test, you will see much more drastic changes, and ultimately....more LBM.

In short, 4iu will shed some fat in the long run...but don't expect drastic changes at that dose.  If you are looking to add more mass like you said, you really have to up the dose a bit.  If you were older (I think you said you were around 32-33?) 4iu would be more effective.  I'm 33 and I needed at least 8iu to show some nice changes....the older you are, the less you will need.  IMHO.  I'm sure others will have different experiences, these are just some of mine.  Good luck bro.



/V


----------



## BigD4life (Nov 11, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Do you see strength gains at that dose?



As far as strength gains, around 10 ius a day is what you will need along with you aas for size and strength gains. 3-5 ius will give you fat loss, tendon and ligament benifits. You'll have more restful sleep, better skin.


----------



## exphys88 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ok, so maybe I'm looking at 6 months at 4-6 iu, and run aas for the last 3 months.  Unfortunately, That's all I can afford. 

How do you guys prefer to dose, am and pm?


----------



## VictorZ06 (Nov 11, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> Ok, so maybe I'm looking at 6 months at 4-6 iu, and run aas for the last 3 months.  Unfortunately, That's all I can afford.
> 
> How do you guys prefer to dose, am and pm?



2X a day.  First shot is very early AM, around 7ish.  Second shot is taken around mid day, around 2PM.  This is how I would run it solo or with AAS, I use a different protocol when slin is in the mix.



/V


----------



## exphys88 (Nov 11, 2011)

Thanks again V!


----------



## suprfast (Nov 11, 2011)

Holy Crap, you are a big mofo.



VictorZ06 said:


> I'm no expert, but I did not.
> 
> I started with 4iu daily and within the second week, me wrists, ankles, feet, and fingers started to bloat.  I also got some horrible CTS sides.  I had a few options, lower my dose, cut it all together, or punch through the sides.  Mind you, at the time I was on a cycle when I first started (I use the shit year round now) and like Heavy said, it's best to use it when "on" because of the synergy of test and GH together.  Both cause hyperplasia.
> 
> ...


----------



## GreenOx (Nov 11, 2011)

Hey guys coming from someone who only uses hgh and have been for the past 6 years this is just my input. 1iu for the first 2 weeks then up to 2iu once a day for the next month, I am on the third month 2iu 4am - nothing to eat or drink for at least 30-45 minutes then 2iu before bed. you will not see muscle mass until about the 5-6th month you will average or should average approx 18 % lean muscle mass gain doing absolutely nothing. HGH is a 3-6 month program, anything injected after 6 months is asking for long term sides(they will diminish once you stop, but some will stay with you forever) since you have built up enough to last the remaining 6 months. I bumped up to 4iu and like /V said swollen wrists, ankles and feet, hands hurt like hell, hips and knees, dropped down 1iu and everything is good now. you guys are using HGH to bulk up and get ripped. I am prob one of the older ones here 50 yrs. I went from 198 lb 29%BF to 176-180 22%BF in 3 months, tone , tighter skin, better sleep, my joints dont crack n pop when I get off the couch, reflexes have almost doubled and I have enough energy to run though the f-in wall. my overall experience has been great. I would recommend HGH to anyone over 30. I have been reading a lot on this forum and checking out some of you guys pix. I gotta say you guys are INTENSE! fuck me!! how do you stick that  f-in needle that deep. I have a hard time with my 30 slin needle and I read some of you have 25! thats like sticking a nail in your thigh. more power to you guys. 

Bottom line; we all know our own bodies and we all know when something doesn't feel rights - Don't ignore it.

Take Care!


----------



## exphys88 (Nov 11, 2011)

Thanks green ox, that is helpful.  I can't wait to get started.


----------



## sassy69 (Nov 11, 2011)

2iu is a typical dose for women. I've got buddies who compete and run 10 iu/day. 4- 6iu is about where you would start experiencing the wrist pain. Water retention is not uncommon. I've heard a few people suggest dosing it EOD instead of ED. However I don't know what that looks like if you're doing more than 4 iu/day.

Generally since its not an anabolic you're really just looking at supplementing your natural growth hormone levels to optimize your "youth-level" functionality - recover, preference for lean muscle mass over bodyfat, better sense of well-being, better skin elasticity, better hair / nails, etc.


----------



## endurance724 (Nov 12, 2011)

i had a question since we are on the topic of GH, victor mentioned that his feet grew one size and his wrist as well, does HGH change features on the  face as well? does it make your face bigger?


----------



## GreenOx (Nov 12, 2011)

sassy69 said:


> 2iu is a typical dose for women. I've got buddies who compete and run 10 iu/day. 4- 6iu is about where you would start experiencing the wrist pain. Water retention is not uncommon. I've heard a few people suggest dosing it EOD instead of ED. However I don't know what that looks like if you're doing more than 4 iu/day.
> 
> Generally since its not an anabolic you're really just looking at supplementing your natural growth hormone levels to optimize your "youth-level" functionality - recover, preference for lean muscle mass over bodyfat, better sense of well-being, better skin elasticity, better hair / nails, etc.



HGH somatotropic hormone compounds offers the athlete  three performance-enhancing effects. HGH (somatotropic hormone) has a  strong anabolic effect and causes an increased protein synthesis which  manifests itself in a muscular hypertrophy (enlargement of muscle cells)  and in a muscular hyperplasia (increase of muscle cells.) The latter is  very interesting since this increase cannot be obtained by the intake  of steroids. This is probably also the reason why HGH is called the  strongest anabolic hormone


----------



## heavyiron (Nov 12, 2011)

GreenOx said:


> HGH somatotropic hormone compounds offers the athlete  three performance-enhancing effects. HGH (somatotropic hormone) has a  strong anabolic effect and causes an increased protein synthesis which  manifests itself in a muscular hypertrophy (enlargement of muscle cells)  and in a* muscular hyperplasia (increase of muscle cells.) The latter is  very interesting since this increase cannot be obtained by the intake  of steroids. This is probably also the reason why HGH is called the  strongest anabolic hormone*


This is incorrect. 

Testosterone has been proven to increase satellite cells.


----------



## GMO (Nov 12, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> This is incorrect.
> 
> Testosterone has been proven to increase satellite cells.




Yup^^^

...and so will Trenbolone due to increased IGF-1 production.


----------



## heavyiron (Nov 12, 2011)

GMO said:


> Yup^^^
> 
> ...and so will Trenbolone due to increased IGF-1 production.


Yup =)


----------



## banker23 (Nov 12, 2011)

endurance724 said:


> i had a question since we are on the topic of GH, victor mentioned that his feet grew one size and his wrist as well, does HGH change features on the face as well? does it make your face bigger?


 
how about dicks? does it make your dick bigger?


----------



## exphys88 (Nov 12, 2011)

banker23 said:


> how about dicks? does it make your dick bigger?


If this were true, it would be the best selling drug in the world, and every guy would be on it, whether they're big or small.


----------



## Patriot1405 (Nov 12, 2011)

Question, I've been on 2iu's 5 on and 2 off for about ten weeks now. Have felt and seen little to no change, don't know if it was bunk or just too Low a dose. Ready to move up to 4-5 iu's a day. But is this recommended for only 6 months? Then off for 6 months? Or drop down to 2 iu's . I'm 6'1 and 249 pounds. I'm also 47 yrs old. Looking to finish my bulk cycle and start my cutting cycle with HGH probably in February. I was hoping because of my age the 2 iu's would be enough. Unless like I said it was bunk. Any insight would be great!!


----------



## exphys88 (Nov 12, 2011)

I obviously can't comment from experience, but it would seem by the vets posts in this thread that 2 iu is a very small dose.


----------



## D-Lats (Nov 12, 2011)

Great posts here!! Tons of good info.


----------



## GreenOx (Nov 12, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> This is incorrect.
> 
> Testosterone has been proven to increase satellite cells.





GMO said:


> Yup^^^
> 
> ...and so will Trenbolone due to increased IGF-1 production.



 I was responding to the statement that HGH has no anabolic properties which it does - thats all


----------



## VictorZ06 (Nov 12, 2011)

I fully agree with Heavy and GMO, like I said in my post...both test (yes, and tren) can cause hyperplasia.  Not at the same rate as GH though.  Taking them together multiplies the effect.  And the strongest anabolic hormone is insulin, not HGH.  IMHO.  Good posts guys.



/V


----------



## VictorZ06 (Nov 12, 2011)

exphysiologist88 said:


> I obviously can't comment from experience, but it would seem by the vets posts in this thread that 2 iu is a very small dose.



Yes, for your (our) age it really is.  The older boys don't need nearly as much, as you can tell from the posts above.




/V


----------



## VictorZ06 (Nov 12, 2011)

banker23 said:


> how about dicks? does it make your dick bigger?



All kidding aside, but I did notice more girth a few months after I started, it was my wife who pointed it out to me.  Nothing drastic, but def noticeable.  Not far fetched seeing how GH is known to make most of your internal organs grow.



/V


----------



## banker23 (Nov 12, 2011)

VictorZ06 said:


> I fully agree with Heavy and GMO, like I said in my post...both test (yes, and tren) can cause hyperplasia. Not at the same rate as GH though. Taking them together multiplies the effect. And the strongest anabolic hormone is insulin, not HGH. IMHO. Good posts guys.
> 
> 
> 
> /V


 
Victor, I am doing an internet seach on insulin as an anabolic and all I am finding is pretty negatively and possibly biased against the idea. Do you have any links to any information that covers proper use and risk mitigation? Thanks.


----------



## VictorZ06 (Nov 12, 2011)

endurance724 said:


> i had a question since we are on the topic of GH, victor mentioned that his feet grew one size and his wrist as well, does HGH change features on the  face as well? does it make your face bigger?



Thankfully no, not in my case...but yes in others.  

The lips, nose, tongue, jaw and forehead increase in size and the fingers and toes widen and become spade-like. The organs and digestive system may also increase in size, which may eventually cause heart failure....but this is caused from using extremely high doses for extended periods of time.  A condition called gigantism.  

Though it's said to happen usually before puberty, it can happen if you use to much HGH.  Some dumb asses have used this shit at 30-50iu a day.....stupid.  Some have all the money in the world and because they don't see drastic changes like we do with AAS, they up their dose extremely high thinking it will do them good.  Not.



/V


----------



## poohiron (Nov 12, 2011)

I read all of the posts and when we talk of hyperplasia we generally mean myofiber hyperplasia. Hyperplasia can refer to sarcoplasmic, mitochondrial, myofibrillar, etc. But just because there is evidence linking test to satellite cell hyperplasia only means that progenitor cell hyperplasia has occurred. Without differentiation the point is moot. 
I suppose this is just a clarification because I subscribe to most of the views represented. I have read a shitload of conflicting research. Some of the positive research from Yamada, Antonio, Gonyea, etc. makes alot of sense in light of practical application.


----------



## VictorZ06 (Nov 12, 2011)

banker23 said:


> Victor, I am doing an internet seach on insulin as an anabolic and all I am finding is pretty negatively and possibly biased against the idea. Do you have any links to any information that covers proper use and risk mitigation? Thanks.



There are so many studies out there, but I'll try to find the best one that addresses your question.  I can tell you that slin is frown upon for many reasons due to it's possible misuse that can ultimately lead to death.  I picked it up because I reached my genetic potential, and thought about going pro many years back.  Insulin is used as a "transport" or a bus if you will, that shuttles all nutrients throughout your body...including HGH.  That's why I said I use a different dosing protocol when I toss slin into the mix.




/V

(I mentioned this in another thread, but because of it's dangers....I really don't like to dish out advice on insulin, because of all it's possible dangerous repercussions.)


----------



## banker23 (Nov 12, 2011)

VictorZ06 said:


> All kidding aside, but I did notice more girth a few months after I started, it was my wife who pointed it out to me. Nothing drastic, but def noticeable. Not far fetched seeing how GH is known to make most of your internal organs grow.
> 
> 
> 
> /V


 
I will immediately commence a 24 hour iv drip of GH right into my dick. 

I want people to nickname me tripod! I'll cancel my gym membership and just squat my dick from now on!

Thanks VicZ06!


----------



## GMO (Nov 12, 2011)

VictorZ06 said:


> Taking them together multiplies the effect.  And the strongest anabolic hormone is insulin, not HGH.  IMHO.  Good posts guys.
> 
> 
> 
> /V



This^^^

Nothing beats a slin/GH/AAS cycle...period.


----------



## banker23 (Nov 12, 2011)

VictorZ06 said:


> There are so many studies out there, but I'll try to find the best one that addresses your question. I can tell you that slin is frown upon for many reasons due to it's possible misuse that can ultimately lead to death. I picked it up because I reached my genetic potential, and thought about going pro many years back. Insulin is used as a "transport" or a bus if you will, that shuttles all nutrients throughout your body...including HGH. That's why I said I use a different dosing protocol when I toss slin into the mix.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
in other words, I will probably never get to the point that I need it (genetic max). I'm not ever going to compete, I am just trying to reach more mass and then lean back out to about 15% (abs visible but not dry looking) which is where I think I look and feel my best.

p.s. I am still interested in reading up on it though if anyone can post some links (not the negative ones, I already found plenty of those).


----------



## ~RaZr~ (Nov 12, 2011)

banker23 said:


> in other words, I will probably never get to the point that I need it (genetic max). I'm not ever going to compete, I am just trying to reach more mass and then lean back out to about 15% (abs visible but not dry looking) which is where I think I look and feel my best.



Banker23
IMHO, slin is really a dangerous drug if you do not know what you are doing. I am not telling you what to do, but from my own experience with diabetic patients and the literature that I have read, I would really consider this choice as a last resort.


----------



## banker23 (Nov 12, 2011)

VictorZ06 said:


> There are so many studies out there, but I'll try to find the best one that addresses your question. I can tell you that slin is frown upon for many reasons due to it's possible misuse that can ultimately lead to death. I picked it up because I reached my genetic potential, and thought about going pro many years back. Insulin is used as a "transport" or a bus if you will, that shuttles all nutrients throughout your body...including HGH. That's why I said I use a different dosing protocol when I toss slin into the mix.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Is Insulin and IGF-1 the same thing?


----------



## GMO (Nov 12, 2011)

djlance said:


> Banker23
> IMHO, slin is really a dangerous drug if you do not know what you are doing. I am not telling you what to do, but from my own experience with diabetic patients and the literature that I have read, I would really consider this choice as a last resort.




^^^I agree 100%. 

AAS, GH use and genetic limits should be reached before employing slin...and even then, you should have a vet walk you through it.


----------



## banker23 (Nov 12, 2011)

djlance said:


> Banker23
> IMHO, slin is really a dangerous drug if you do not know what you are doing. I am not telling you what to do, but from my own experience with diabetic patients and the literature that I have read, I would really consider this choice as a last resort.


 
Thanks, I am not even considering this right now but I do want to learn about it at least. Don't want to waste anyone's time in here but I don't want to be ignorant on this subject either. I'll shut up now before it looks like I'm thread-jacking. Sorry OP.


----------



## ~RaZr~ (Nov 12, 2011)

banker23 said:


> Is Insulin and IGF-1 the same thing?



Yes and no. Quoted from IGF1.net


> IGF-1 is a hormone that is produced when the liver is stimulated by human growth hormone. When levels of HGH rise in the blood, the liver responds by producing more IGF-1. These higher "bursts" spur growth and regeneration by the body's cells, especially in muscle cells. Increases in IGF-1 levels have shown positive effects on increases in muscle strength, size, and efficiency. When you do not have enough IGF-1 in your body, whether caused by disease, malnutrition or a hormone imbalance, your growth can be stunted.
> 
> The primary purpose of IGF-1 is to stimulate cell growth. Every cell in the human body can be affected by IGF-1, but cells in muscle, cartilage, bone, liver, kidney, skin tissue, lungs, and nerves tend to be most positively affected.





banker23 said:


> Thanks, I am not even considering this right now but I do want to learn about it at least. Don't want to waste anyone's time in here but I don't want to be ignorant on this subject either. I'll shut up now before it looks like I'm thread-jacking. Sorry OP.



It's all good brother. Knowledge is power...


----------



## VictorZ06 (Nov 12, 2011)

banker23 said:


> Is Insulin and IGF-1 the same thing?



No.  Look at slin as the delivery system.



/V


----------



## heavyiron (Nov 12, 2011)

I finished a short article on HGH today if you guys want some practical application.

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/unclez/147565-human-growth-hormone-practical-application.html


----------



## VictorZ06 (Nov 12, 2011)

banker23 said:


> in other words, I will probably never get to the point that I need it (genetic max). I'm not ever going to compete, I am just trying to reach more mass and then lean back out to about 15% (abs visible but not dry looking) which is where I think I look and feel my best.



Bro, if you have not reached your genetic potential (or come close to it), I strongly advice against the use of it.  The ONLY reason why I started using it is because I near reached my maximum potential and considered going pro many years back.  If you are not going pro, I don't see the point in taking such risks.  And as GMO pointed out, if one ever decides to go ahead and use it, a pro/vet should be by your side to walk you through all the science, step by step.  It's also best to get advice from seasoned nutritional pros who have worked with body builders and slin in the past.  There is no room for any error.



/V


----------



## VictorZ06 (Nov 12, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> I finished a short article on HGH today if you guys want some practical application.
> 
> http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/unclez/147565-human-growth-hormone-practical-application.html



Well done bro!  And as always, I love the pics!!! 



/V


----------



## heavyiron (Nov 12, 2011)

*Testosterone-induced muscle hypertrophy is associated with an increase in satellite cell number in healthy, young men *

*Indrani Sinha-Hikim,1 Stephen M. Roth,2 Martin I. Lee,1 and Shalender Bhasin1 *

_1Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine,  Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles,  California 90059; and 2Department of Human Genetics, University of  Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvamia 15261 _
Submitted 22 August 2002 ; accepted in final form 26 March 2003 








 ABSTRACT


Testosterone (T) supplementation in men induces muscle fiber  hypertrophy. We hypothesized that T-induced increase in muscle fiber  size is associated with a dose-dependent increase in satellite cell  number. We quantitated satellite cell and myonuclear number by using  direct counting and spatial orientation methods in biopsies of vastus  lateralis obtained at baseline and after 20 wk of treatment with a  gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonist and a 125-, 300-, or 600-mg  weekly dose of T enanthate. T administration was associated with a  significant increase in myonuclear number in men receiving 300- and  600-mg doses. The posttreatment percent satellite cell number, obtained  by direct counting, differed significantly among the three groups  (ANCOVA _P_ < 0.000001); the mean posttreatment values (5.0 and  15.0%) in men treated with 300- and 600-mg doses were greater than  baseline (2.5 and 2.5%, respectively, _P_ < 0.05 vs. baseline).  The absolute satellite cell number measured by spatial orientation at 20  wk (1.5 and 4.0/mm) was significantly greater than baseline (0.3 and  0.6/mm) in men receiving the 300- and 600-mg doses (_P_ < 0.05). The change in percent satellite cell number correlated with changes in total (_r_ = 0.548) and free T concentrations (_r_  = 0.468). Satellite cell and mitochondrial areas were significantly  higher and the nuclear-to-cytoplasmic ratio lower after treatment with  300- and 600-mg doses. *We conclude that T-induced muscle fiber  hypertrophy is associated with an increase in satellite cell number, a  proportionate increase in myonuclear number, and changes in satellite  cell ultrastructure.*


----------



## ~RaZr~ (Nov 12, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> I finished a short article on HGH today if you guys want some practical application.
> 
> http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/unclez/147565-human-growth-hormone-practical-application.html



 Damn Heavy you should be a professor!


----------



## VictorZ06 (Nov 12, 2011)

^He is in my book....even when drunk!  lol




/V


----------



## poohiron (Nov 12, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> *Testosterone-induced muscle hypertrophy is associated with an increase in satellite cell number in healthy, young men *
> 
> *Indrani Sinha-Hikim,1 Stephen M. Roth,2 Martin I. Lee,1 and Shalender Bhasin1 *
> 
> ...


 
Interesting research, heavy. So we see an association of progenitor cells to the degree of hypertrophy induced by testosterone. Just wonder if there were more specifics on differentiation of those progenitor cells. Correlation doesn't prove causation so we can induce what from this? Differentiation of the increased satellite cells caused the myofibullar hypertrophy? Good info...


----------

