# Need Help!



## J'Bo (May 6, 2002)

After looking at the member profiles, i know i will recieve some good feedback. I am 26 years old and just competed in my first fitness competition on April.28th. I placed 3rd out of 7 very tough competitors. The judges told me that i need to gain more shoulder, back and leg mass for my next show in September. So i have 4 monthes to do what i can. I am 5'9 and competed at 124lbs (12% BF) and two weeks later after eating everything in site i am only 128-130 lbs (15% BF). I trained for April's  competition for 8 monthes and gained 4 pounds of muscle, and i now need more. I have never been over 132 lbs and 18% BF. Chocolate is not in my regular diet, but after the show i couldn't resisit. If anyone has any nutrition tips or training info to help me out, i would appreciate it. Thanks.


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## Tank316 (May 7, 2002)

welcome to IM. and congrats on competition. all you have to do to get some ideas check out some previous threads in the training forum and your diet in this section.W8  and CLP just finished up with there comps and they looked totally awesome[check out there pics]..[yummy], well any way, theres alot of people here willing to help, good luck, enjoy the stay. and chocolate after a show is a must, so dont feel to bad. but for now...drop the candy bar, move back slowly, thats good.


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## w8lifter (May 7, 2002)

Welcome to the site 

Perhaps you and I can get back on track together...I just competed on the 26th & I'm still trying to get back on track too LOL!

What kind of diet have you been using? Why don't you post it so we can see if we can get you back on track and gaining more muscle and get that BF down again.

Oh, and tell about the competition  ....Which one was it, Strattford is sticking in my head but I think that was earlier than the 28th?

And Tank is right....step away from the candy bar ..*taking my own advice lol* ...here's a little something to motivate you to do that, if that doesn't work...go look in the mirror, that always works for me!



> *Originally posted by Dr. Pain*
> _These are from another board, but it is something I see all of the time. I hope the authors of this realize that it will help others to see this!
> Well i ran out of potassium, and did not taper off correctly. i went from an even 200 show night to 220 lqast night. now realizing that i could not have put on 20 lbs of fat in 48 hours, how can i get this water off? i leave for florida on friday, and even my ankles look fat, abs are almost gone, and i feel water everywhere.
> 
> ...


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

*Info galore*

Here it is the outline of what i did to prepare for the last show.

By the way the comp was so much fun. Going into it i did not know if i wanted to compete again. Once i got onto the stage i did not want to get off. As i mentioned before i came in 3rd place, and the top two competitiors definately deserved their placings. 

It was the Winnipeg, Manitoba Novice Bodybuilding anf Fitness competition. I will post my picture so that you can see what i mean about having to build some muscle. 

Glad to hear your with me w8lifter.

I got up from 126lbs to 132lbs from October 2001- March 2002 and stayed around 17% BF. Then i cut down to compete at 123lbs (lost 7 lbs in one week) and 12% BF. No matter what i seem to eat i never really go higher than 17% BF.  I would like to ultimately compete at 130lbs and 10% BF. 

Here is what i did last time around.

Diet consisted of the following: (the carbs and fats moved around during the cut down phase 1 month out) 

Meal One (pre workout):
4 egg whites (1 yolk)
banana

Meal Two (post workout):
tin tuna, 1 Tablespoon ultra low fat mayo, celery, 1 cup rice, 1/4 cup pecans
or
tin salmon, 1/2 Tablespoon ultra low fat mayo, green onions, 2 pieces dry rye toast
or chicken breast and 1 cup rice or med. potato

Meal Three:
piece of fruit and protein shake 
or
piece of fruit and 1/4 cup nuts

Meal Four:
steak, extra lean ground beef, or chicken breast
small potato, yam, or 3.4 cup rice
2 cups salad or steamed veggies
1 Tablespoon of low fat dressing or 2 Tablespoons of nuts

Meal Five:
popcorn
or
protein shake
or
banana and 1 Tablespoon peanut butter
or 
100 g turkey breast, 2 plain rice cakes, and 1/4 avocado

The diet changed slightly as time went on (no mayo).
I still cheated every week at least once with a couple of binges (18 chocolate chip cookies). From 4 weeks out i was pretty good, only 2 cheats a week (still bad). I never changed my BF level from 13-14% one month out. The last week i cut all sugars and salt and never cheated. I lost 7 lbs in that week (water i am sure). BF level went down to 12% and i was 123lbs (5'9 height). when i did cheat usually my BF level dropped a percentage or two. Weird?

As for the training it went as follows: 4 weight training sessions a week, no cardio til Jan 2002, gymnastics 2 times a week (1 1/2 hours each). In January i started doing 3X 30 minutes of cardio and had to cut it down to 2 times a week because i was lossing too fast. Then the training increased to the following program 2 monthes out from comp.

Monday:
am shoulders, abs, and 30 minutes cardio
pm gymnastics
Tuesday:
am bis and back
pm routine practice
Wednesday:
30 minutes cardio
Thursday:
am chest and tris
Friday:
am legs
pm routine practice
Saturday:
am gymnastics
am 30 min cardio
Sunday:
off
posing and physique practice

Now here is the week after the comps pig out list: (hold on to your cookies)
ice cream sundae
loads of bread and bagels
every kind of cheese and dairy known to man
greesy burger
McDonalds
2 jam busters
box of mini donuts
chocolate cookies
and i really could go on, but i wont cause i feel sick already

Get this after eating all this i have only gained my 7 lbs back that i lost the last week, and went up only 2% BF. Can someone please tell me what is going on!


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

*w8lifter*

So when is your next competition?

Bodybuilding or Fitness?

We can definately get back on track together. 
Help eachother get through those diets too.

I could also use some help from vetren tanners.

I used 6 coats of show tan for the show and i was no where near as dark as the other competitors. What do you guys use? Dream tan? Bronzers?


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## w8lifter (May 7, 2002)

That's your typical low fat, calorie restricted pre-contest diet...I could make it so much better 

YOu dropped fat after your cheats cause you raised your calories and increased your metabolism again after dieting so low.

Congrats on your placing....this was your first show?  I'm the same way...bitch and complain about everything I have to do to compete and then when I'm on stage I'm in my glory, lol.

Looking forward to the pics, you should post them here instead of the pic gallery since you won't be able to see them till your post count gets up...I can move them after if you like.

P.S.....put the bread down!


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## w8lifter (May 7, 2002)

I'm training for an Obstacle course right now.

I usually use 3-4 coats of pro-tan, but I give myself a good base of real tan to put it over though.


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

I would love you to make me a better diet plan.
No oatmeal please!


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

*Competition Picture*

 

Anyone have ideas on how to pump these shoulders up?
Tone the legs more and widen my back.


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## Fitgirl70 (May 7, 2002)

Wow, nice pic -- I love your abs and arms.
I'm interested in following your story!!   Good luck with the next comp.

Oh yeah~~  Welcome Aboard!!


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## ZECH (May 7, 2002)

J'bo.......you rock already!!! Welcome to IM! I knew before I saw your pic, if you placed third, you must look pretty awesome! If you do gain some size in shoulders and legs, you should do great!! Hang in there....train hard!! Look forward to seeing your progress!!(Wow! I can't stand it!! Another Hottie!!!!!!!)


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## w8lifter (May 7, 2002)

Abs & chest are definitely a strong point, legs look like they just need some fine tuning, and shoulders definitely need some work. It's hard to tell what your back looks like from that pic. How long have you been training? And who gave you that diet?....did you do it yourself or did you have a trainer?

Can you post your w8 training program too...sets/reps/RI/exercises.

Oh, and I'm not going to give you a diet plan (unless you want to pay me for it  )...but I will help you develop something better than what you have now, but you have to do a little work yourself...check out these links and then get back to me w/ your thoughts:

My Journal, starting at an appropriate page, lol ...hmmm, that was interesting (?) going over my old journal.

High Protein/Low carb Diet 

Sticky at the top of the forum 

DP's Fat Loss Primer 

DP's Key's to Fat Loss 

P.S....as a competitor, I don't think you should allow your BF to get to 17% even while bulking!


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

It is hard to say what my training routine consists of because every 6 weeks it changes exercises. 

I do a split usually consisting of:
Bis and Back
Tris and Chest
Shoulders
Legs

In the last 3 weeks before the competition i changed it up and did more of a circuit training program, with higher reps.

During the rest of the year i do a rep range of 8-10 with usually 3-4 sets. The order and exercises i do change all the time, but i always include these power exercises. 
Squats (dumbbell)
Deadlifts
Chest press (bar or dumbbell)
Dips
Arnold or Overhead presses
Lateral raises (deltoid raises)
Reverse Pec or Bent over rows
Wide Grip Chins
T-Bar Rows

I do 4-5 exercises shoulders
6-7 Legs
2-3 Biceps
2-3 Triceps
2-4 Chest
2-4 Back

I have been training seriously for about 4 years, one year training for fitness.

I just started creatine again (i was using it from october 2001-jan 2002). I take 1 teaspoon pre and post workouts.
Also am taking 1 teaspoon glutamine post workout.

My gymnastics coach and part time trainer Kary Odiatu (fitness Pro) gave me this  general diet plan to go on.  I do my weight training programs myself though.

Going to check the links you sent me out now.
Thanks, you are a great help.


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## Fade (May 7, 2002)

Wow! Looking good.


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## w8lifter (May 7, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by J'Bo *_
> 
> My gymnastics coach and part time trainer Kary Odiatu (fitness Pro) gave me this  general diet plan to go on.  I do my weight training programs myself though.



OMG....I can't believe I'm about to fuck w/ Kary Odiatu's advice, LOL!  But um...that diet could be much better, to put it nicely....shh, don't tell her I said that though 

Do you do barbell squats at all?  You still do 8-10 reps w/ DB's? Curious what weight you're using. Do you utilize any specific training priciples such as compound sets, drop sets or supersets? I have a leg program that I used to bring my legs up, it's killer but works great if you can handle it  It's written on my website if you want to check it out.


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

*Re: Info galore*



> _*Originally posted by J'Bo *_
> Now here is the week after the comps pig out list: (hold on to your cookies)
> ice cream sundae
> loads of bread and bagels
> ...


Answer to your question, not just calorie increase and metabolism boost but increased insulin sensitivity and utility, causing greater growth potential and making it the best time for adding mass cleanly and w/o excess fat gain.  Wonderful time!

But most importantly, what is a jam buster?


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## nikegurl (May 7, 2002)

welcome J'Bo!

w8 - any calf secrets you'd care to share?  yours are awesome!  (did check out and print the leg program on your web.  working on one i like that i got from gopro but will be trying that one next!)


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

Dont worry i wont tell.
Everyone responds differently and so i geuss she thought it would be best. 
Now i have learn't and can modify the diet.

She is an awesome role model and friend.

I just took a look at the links you sent me (thanks), and i like the looks of your diet thats for sure.
Seems alot less strict and will help me to cut down the amount of cheats. I never knew that about heavy cream. I will have to start taking my creatine with it instead of juice. My boyfriend will also be happy to hear that because he just started using pure glucose with his creatine. 

I will take a peak at your website for your leg routine.
I am prepared to do anything to make those muscles pop up and out. You think 4 monthes is enough time to make some changes? 
I want to show those judges who they are dealing with.


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

*Must you have?*

Did you really have to copy and paste my pig out week?
Makes me relive it all over again.
Haha.

I am ready to do what ever it takes (almost) to build major muscles.

A jam buster? You really don't know what they are?
Where do you live? They are delicious icing sugar dusted doughnuts filled with a jam filling. Ummm ok thats enough.


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## nikegurl (May 7, 2002)

J'Bo - I've been following the eating plan that W8 bookmarked info on for just over 2 weeks and seen lots of progress already.

It's tough for the first few days but after that - not bad at all.  My energy level has been great even on the no carb days.  I'm following the total carb deplete and then load every 4th day for my last meal (yam, oatmeal, veggies, banana)

Now I'm only on week #3.  Haven't even been through a tweak to the plan yet.  But I can tell you it's been better for me then any of the other plans I've tried (including the 50/30/20 type eating)

Lots of great resources here.  Give it a go!

I definitely think you can bring your legs and back up in 4 months!


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

These may sound like dumb questions, but what are heels elevated back squats, front squats, postition deadlifts, and good mornings?

How long so i do each phase for?

Yah this sounds killer, but i am up for the challenge.
I'll let you know how it works out.

No i don't do barbbell squats, i went to a seminar by Laura Bennetti last year and she said you can never get low enough with barbbells (for women).
As for weight, my legs are the weakest part of my body.
Deadlifts: 70-80lbs of 10 reps 
Squats: 50 lbs of 10 reps
Leg extensions: 30-40lbs of 10-15 reps
Lying leg curls: 30 lbs (tore left hamstring 1 month ago) of 10 reps
Abductors: 120 lbs of 15 reps
Adductors: 120 lbs of 15 reps
Leg Press: 70 lbs of 10-12 reps

I have done the 12,10,8,6 supersets, drop sets, and compound sets too.


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

*Re: Info galore*



> _*
> Now here is the week after the comps pig out list: (hold on to your cookies)
> ice cream sundae
> loads of bread and bagels
> ...


_*
  Dang, did I do it again?   Well, I'm down in Texas, so no, no Jam Busters for me... and that's a good thing too. LOL. *_


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

Nikegurl,

How many weeks are you out from competition?

There are a few variations of the diet on the link, which are you using?

What is your BF level now?
Just curious because i dont want to start carb depleting so far off from contest, i am scared to lose the little muscle that i have worked so hard to get.


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

Cornfed,



Your a brat!


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## nikegurl (May 7, 2002)

hi j'bo.  i competed 10 years ago and made lots of diet mistakes at the end....no contest in site.  just trying to get lean and put on some size (muscle of course)

for the first time - it seems like i'm managing to do both.  again - i'm only in my 3rd week but i've trained for awhile and tried lots of plans.  this one is working for me.

my bodyfat is way too high - about 17%.  most of it's in my big ole butt!  but in less then 3 weeks i've seen very clear changes in my upper body.  lower body is slower but i can't complain since i'm the one who let my bodyfat get that high.

i don't think you have to worry about losing muscle.  i'm actually eating more calories and protein then before and still getting leaner.  the scale hasn't budged but my waist is smaller and i have definition that wasn't there before.  i can see the 3 heads of my shoulders now and the vein in my bicep is finally back.  again - i'm still at about 17% bodyfat so i have a ways to go.

but it's headed in the right direction and i'm feeling good.

i'm eating 25-30 grams protein at each meal and about 15 grams of fat.  carbs just from veggies (cucumber, brocolli, green pepper and celery are my favs).  every 4th day i carb up with the yams oatmeal banana for my last meal of the day.

dr. pain and w8 really know their stuff.  i have to think if the scale is staying the same and i'm getting visibly leaner with a smaller waist that i'm not losing muscle.  i'll keep people posted as i continue.  like i said - i'm so new to this.  dr. pain and w8 are the ones to help most.  but my experience with the eating plan they talk about has been really good so far.


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## w8lifter (May 7, 2002)

Dammit, I had a whole big post and I lost it...I freaken hate that!!!!!!! : 

Anyway....Why don't you post a quick 6-meal plan from what you've learned/read so far and we can get started on a good diet for you. We don't need to cut out carbs...we want to build muscle right? W/o gaining much if any fat....actually, you'll probably lose a little fat on this diet w/o even trying! What we want is an optimal balance of protein, carbs and fat...lean protein, slow-burning carbs and healthy fats.

Okay, the second time I disagree w/ a pro, lol, but I don't know what Laura Binetti is talking about w/ the squats and the bars...sounds like bull to me!

Anyway, you'll need to learn to squats, don't be afraid of the bar...if you can squat w/ 50lb db you can squat w/ a bar!

Alright, Heels Elevated Back Squat: The bar will sit on on the back of your shoulders, (not your neck) as here ....your heels should be elevated ideally on a slanted board...if you don't have one, use a couple plates or regular board...this will take the hamstrings/glutes out of the movement a bit and focus more attention on the quads.

Front Squat...the bar will be placed across the front of your shoulders w/ an olympic grip or arms crossed like this 

Positition Deadlifts: simply means you deadlift from different positions on each set....off the floor, off a bench, etc.

and Good Mornings: are here 

Now....if you don't know what these exercises are and/or have never done them...and don't have anyone to show you proper form you really shouldn't do them at all. We can work something else out for you.

Each phase is 4 weeks long.


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

A brat!


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## kuso (May 7, 2002)

Looks like she nailed you down after just two posts Corn   

BTW....welcome aboard J`Bo


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

Watch yer ass, bud...I have greater power than ever b4.  And Welcome J'Bo.


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## kuso (May 7, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by cornfed *_
> Watch yer ass, bud...



Why? .... you feeling horny again  

*turns around and runs like he!!*


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## Dr. Pain (May 7, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by cornfed *_
> Watch yer ass, bud...I have greater power than ever b4.  And Welcome J'Bo.




Why is Kuso always having to watch his ass? 



Welcome J'Bo. 

 Yes 4 months can really produce the changes you are looking for!


DP


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> Why is Kuso always having to watch his ass?
> 
> DP


Well, crash said he has a chastity belt and that you're on the prowl, DP  .


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

I hate when i lose my message too.
I have done it about 10 times already on this site.

Anyways do you think i could do these exercises instead:
Phase one: 1&1/4 Lying leg curls, Machine squats, Deadlifts, and Seated Calve Raises?

I would be more comfortable doing machine squats, and deadlifts.


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

Great W8!

Yes i want to build muscle and am not really concerned if i gain fat, i know that i can lose it easily.

Here is what i came up with, let me know what you think.

Before i start what do you think of Whole Wheat pasta after your workout?


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

I personally say that free squats aren't an absolute necessity.  Between leg press (low foot placement), hack squats and extensions, you should be fine.  JMO, though many won't agree.


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

post workout, just include appr 15g simple carbs (sugar) and 40-50g long acting carbs (whole grains, yams, whole wheat pasta, etc...)


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## w8lifter (May 7, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by cornfed *_
> post workout, just include appr 15g simple carbs (sugar) and 40-50g long acting carbs (whole grains, yams, whole wheat pasta, etc...)



 don't be messing w/ my diet! 

No sugar, no pasta! Sweet potato, brown rice or oatmeal!

And yeah....machine squats will be okay to start w/


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

She's fricken off-season.  You need the dam insulin spike!!!   + she doesn't care about fat, which won't be a problem anyway!!!  Bug off sis!


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## w8lifter (May 7, 2002)

Don't fuq w/ me cornbud, I am not fooled by that sweet li'l face, I will still kick your ass


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

I'll be a martyr of the truth then!      LOL    

I stand by what I said, but if you insist, you could do the slin spike every 3-4 weeks and take advantage of the insulin sensitivity.


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

Here is what i have come up with.

Meal One (pre workout): 9am
4 egg whites (1 yolk), 1/2 Whole wheat bagel, 1 Tablespoon of peanut butter, 1 teaspoon creatine (in 1/4 cup juice)

Meal Two (post workout): 11am
Protein shake w/ water, 4 strawberries, 2 Tablespoons cream, 1 teaspoon creatine 

Meal Three: 1pm
Tin of Tuna
1 Tablespoon mayo or low fat dressing
3/4 cup pasta or 3/4 Cup brown rice
celery

Meal Four: 4pm
Banana
1 Tablespoon peanut butter or 10 nuts
1/2 scoop protein w/ water

Meal Five: 6pm
Steak, chicken breast or veggie ground round
2 cups of salad or steamed broccoli or asparagus
1 tablespoon low fat dressing
small potato or 1/2 cup rice

Meal Six: 8:30pm
1/2 cup yogurt, 10 almonds
or
rice cake and peanut butter
or
celery and turkey breast

How is that?

Oh yah i also take: Cal/Mag, Vitamin C and E, Hemp oil (2 Tablespoons), Creatine, and Glutamine (not all the time).


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> I am not fooled by that sweet li'l face, I will still kiss your sweet young ass


Ok


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

I wouldn't do the carbs in the last meal, unless post workout.  Plus, I'd throw the creatine all post workout for best absorbancy, or 1/2 1st thing after waking and 1/2 post training.  Other than that sounds good.


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

You two are too funny.
Love the competitiveness!

How about this.
I will eat pasta once a week after my heavy leg day Wednesdays.
Otherwise its potatos, brown rice, or yams (they ok?).

I am telling you guys though, i am serious when i say if i stick to a diet and dont cheat i lose body fat and lose it fast. So i don't know if pasta would be a bad idea. 

Oh i forgot to mention that just to add to my problem of not being able to gain easily, i am also hypoglycemic (once in a while). I mean that i get tested 3 times a year, and half the time i am and half the time i am not.


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

The sweet potatoes will help curb that, a 'lil.  I say do the GI boost every 3 weeks during the weekdays, agree w8?  Iy'll help w/ the HGI issue and will take advantage of the insulin sensitivity.  I think it's actually better than 1 way or another.  Plus you're looking for mass.  (don't tell w8, but I say do an all out cheat meal once a week  )


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## w8lifter (May 7, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by J'Bo *_
> Here is what i have come up with.
> 
> Meal One (pre workout): 9am
> ...


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## w8lifter (May 7, 2002)

Okay, we agree on something cornbud! I think a good carb up every week is a great idea


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

Well, if you carb up once a week, screw my every 3wks thing, there'll be no point.  Now, about the creatine...
Don't mix your protein and creatine.  Have your creatine(w/ juice) and strawberries right after training...wait an hour and have your protein.  one-1.5 hours after that have a full meal.    I agree w/ w8 on the rest.


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## w8lifter (May 7, 2002)

Ooops, ya lost me again on that post cornbud


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

Hmmm... hang on a sec... time to cut and paste :d


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

to quote a great guy... LOL :
Good rules of thumb 

3) 1-1.5hr after training, take in 1/3g per pound body wt of Whey P 
4) eat a real meal an 1-1.5hr after whey 

there

W8, what I meant was due to the time that whey is active in the body and absorbtion time, #s 3 & 4  are needed.

any better?


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

Oh, and the protein will lower the GI of the carbs by slowing digestion, so wait on the protein until after the creatine and carbs are used.


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

You have out done yourself, thanks again W8.

A few questions though.

****6 egg whites would be better than the four. 1/2 cup oats would be better than a bagel, bagels are crap food. 

I have tried to do more than 4 and it just wont go down, as for oatmeal any other alternatives? I can't bare to eat wallpaper paste.

****I'd do 3 tbsp of cream...since your trying to add muscle mass

I can definately handle that.
I shouldnt do protein with creatine though?
I thought spacing out your creatine would help you absorb it better and not pee it all out.

****full fat...we use fat to control insulin, low fat dressings have added sugar, and go for the rice. 

I can do full fat... i can do the rice too.
Should i do a potato or yam every 4 days?


****An apple would be better than the banana, but it's good. 

Is 1/2 a grapefruit, or an orange ok as an alternative to an apple?


****Ditch the low fat crap, see above. Regular potatoes are extremely high GI, sweet potato or yam is a much better choice. What's the srving size on the meat? 

Ditched! Unfortunately i live in a hic city that doesn't have sweet potatos (go figure). A yam i can do. As for serving size, i really dont know, its about a heman fist. ? I should weight it tommorrow.

****This is the worst thing....rice cakes are BAD! So is the yogurt...all sugar. turkey breast, celery & almond or peanut butter would be ideal though! 

To be honest i really was stumped on what to put, usually i  would have 4 cups of buttered micro popcorn. Bad food usually happens at this time of day. Why are rice cakes bad? The ones i eat are only 0.1 grams of sugar and 1mg of sodium. Everyone carb loaded on them at the show (including me) and they were the only thing that went down good. As for the yogurt, i am not really good with dairy anyways and now that i just checked the ingrediant list it is i the trash can. 

8:30 is your last meal? What time do you go to bed? 

I usually go to bed around 10:30pm, when i am dieting and training hard. Otherwise around 12am. 

Get this Laura B. said that to gain mass i should eat a donut or pop tart before bed.
Another guy at a trade show i did told me to start shooting B vitamins into my stomach.

There are some real weidos out there.
Thankfully there are people like you guys around.

Can't wait to get up tommorrow and start the new training and diet. Heavy cream here i come! K that sounded sick! I am sure the pervs will be all over that one.


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

the creatine issue, refer to my prev post.  Creatine is best absorbed 1st thing in the morning and immediately post workout (depleted glycogen stores in muscles allow the insulin spike [from the carbs taken w/ creatine] to transport the creatine and it will be used).  The prob w/ the protein is that it will cause the carbs and creatine to be absorbed more slowly, keeping it from being fully utilized.  Plus, you really don't need the protein right after lifting, anyway.  the carbs, producing the insulin spike, results in curbing catabolis and even encouraging protein synthesis.  But for this to all work, the carbs must be unhindered. 
Hope that helps


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

*Honey*

Ok so maybe this is a long shot, but can i have 1 cup of green tea with 1 teaspoon of natural honey in the morning and night?

It calms me and makes me sleep better.


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

Thanks Mr.Innocent it definately did help.

I do take my creatine in am (pre-workout) and post workout.
What would be a good meal 2 for me then?
Just the creatine, strawberries and cream, and then a meal 1 1/2 hours later?


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

the carbs b4 bed are bad, but you can get away w/ it in the morning, just mix your creatine w/ water instead of the juice at that point.


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## J'Bo (May 7, 2002)

*Olympia 2002*

Hey anyone thinking of going to check out fitness olympia in October? Me and 5 of my fitness friends are doing a road trip to catch all the action. Ir shouold be a blast. 
Anyone coming to the Canadian National Fitness and Physique Competition in Winnipeg on June.22nd? Can't wait to see Jenny H. do a routine as our geust preformer. I f anyone is coming into town let me know.


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## cornfed (May 7, 2002)

Actually, it's wierd to get used to, but the _best_ way IMO is this...
~~w/in 30min of training - creatine(in juice)/strawberries
~~wait 1hr
~~protein shake/cream
~~wait 45mi-1hr
~~regular meal (protein/carb/fat) you could just move meal 3 forward


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## mmafiter (May 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by J'Bo *_
> You have out done yourself, thanks again W8.
> 
> A few questions though.
> ...



_*Dr. Pain...My rice cakes only have 0.1 grams of sugar in them how can they be so high on glycemic index*_

_The GI is not a total authority on how foods affect a BB, a low GI food like an orange is bad for a BB, a high GI like Brown rice works good. Krypto had an excellent post describing this phenominon!
Closest thing to rice cake, and I sure the label is the same, no sugars is (and this came from Mendosa)

Crispix 124 87 
Rice Chex 127 89 
Rice Bubbles 128 90 

Rather than bed, I just looked at 5 different GI lists, everyone has a different POV. I saw brown rice from 56-79, aspartame sweetened yogurt (what a joke) at 14 and this. It is still high, but my point is that these food work poorly for a BB, despite the GI:
Rice, brown 56 
Rice, instant 85 - 91 
Rice, white 70 
Crackers
Graham Crackers 74 
Rice Cakes 77 
Rye Crispbread 67 
Stoned Wheat Thins 68 
Water Crackers 72 

Among other things. A baked potato is like eating a bowl of sugar and nobody has processed it!
Look at it this way, if it spikes insulin, whether it is coffee, diet pop, or sugar free jello, IN YOUR BODY, then it is bad for YOUR cutting/lean bulking program!

Mikki, BPB, everyone else, I have made several posts concerning this! It should be searchable. I have also made reference to the trade offs involved, as said, release of FFA's vs Insulin spiking. Same thing with post W/O sugar, optimal recovery versus fat burning. ARE YOU ON A CUT OR NOT?

There are a few things I've noticed in my body, coffee imediately before a meal, no problem, otherwise bloat (minor) and smoothness. I like cream and splends (don't start) and I think my body is reacting more to the splenda than the coffee. Caffeine pills, no problem!

If you don't sweeten your coffee and don't notice physiological changes, stay with it, however if you do, it is clinicaly proven that caffeine uptake from soda or a pill is better than coffee! There apparently their are constituents in coffee that inhibit total uptake! Don't ask, some else research this, short on time!

DP_

Now, you and Cornfed said not to worry about how much fat you gained. This IMO is a bad idea. Why?

Fact: Cardio eats away at your muscles
Fact: The fatter you get, the longer you have to cut.

If you allow your BF to get too high, you're going to have to go to extremes to get it down to contest numbers...either by doing shitloads of cardio (bye-bye muscles), drastic calorie-restriction (again say bye bye) or a combination of both (hello, did we even add any muscle on our bulk?).....you're going to end up having to cut for a longer period than if your bf were kept in check....the longer you have to cut, the shorter amt of time you have to gain muscle! 

I don't know why anyone would choose to work their ass off trying to gain a lot of muscle only to lose half of it when it comes time to shed the fat; when they can add lean muscle mass, bulk for a longer period and lose little LBM when cutting; if they didn't have to! You can add quality muscle, for a longer period of time (think more muscle), have to cut for a shorter period of time w/ less (no) cardio and retain all your LBM that you worked so hard to get....this diet will take you there, but it means NO SUGAR!!!!

I just did this diet, yes it's unconventional in terms of post w/o sugar intake but I'm telling you it works!

Okay, obviously my biatch couldn't even think of coming up w/ this so clearly this is me (w8) and not him, lol.

 ...BIATCH, I TOLD YOU NOT TO LOG ME OUT...YOU STUPID BIATCH   You're so lucky I didn't lose all this


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## Dr. Pain (May 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> Don't fuq w/ me cornbud, I am not fooled by that sweet li'l face, I will still kick your ass



Now Cornfed and Kuso can watch their asses together? 


W8, I love it when you quote Pain, even as mmafiter!

J'Bo, go back a ways and read the links W8 put up for you, it will explain everything!


DP


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## lina (May 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by J'Bo *_
> 
> Meal Four: 4pm
> Banana
> ...



Hi JBo!

You look great! Good luck on your next competition! You've gotten wonderful advice here and you will do great!  

I just have one question for everyone helping her out here.. w8, cornfed, DP, mmafiter, and anyone who cares to join ....for meal 4...> *is 1/2 scoop protein enuf? *


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## w8lifter (May 8, 2002)

Oh you're right...I didn't even notice that, lol! No it's not...at least one srving, but 1.5 is better!

And just a note...that was me posting as mmafiter, lol!


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## kuso (May 8, 2002)

And another note....that was me posting as w8


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## w8lifter (May 8, 2002)

lol


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## J'Bo (May 8, 2002)

You guys have all been unbelievable.

I will make you all proud.

Starting the new diet today.
I am sick with a cold now so i figure the oatmeal wont taste as bad.

LOL


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## J'Bo (May 8, 2002)

Ok i just returned from the gym, where i did W8's mega leg workout. All i can say is, OH MY GOODNESS. I can't walk already, i love it. I must admit though i almost cried during the squats. I can hardley wait til the judges see these legs in 4 monthes. Haha i will blow them away. Well gotta go eat my strawberries and cream delight, i'll keep you posted.


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## ZECH (May 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by J'Bo *_
> Ok i just returned from the gym, where i did W8's mega leg workout. All i can say is, OH MY GOODNESS. I can't walk already, i love it.



You think you can't walk now?? Wait till Friday!!!!


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## w8lifter (May 8, 2002)

Awesome J'Bo!!! I'm impressed! Most people don't want to go through the 100 squats, lol!!!


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## J'Bo (May 8, 2002)

Thanks dg806, your so kind.

I guess i should have planned my leg day a little better.
I have to put on a fundraiser for the Canadian National Fitness Competition Friday. No dancing for me, i may not be able to walk even. Thats ok though, its all worth it. 

Don't worry you'll pay for buggin me.


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## J'Bo (May 8, 2002)

Believe me W8 i didn't want to do them, by rep 55 i was feeling like i was going to  

But i got through it and can't wait until next Wednesday.
I am going to go up in weight with my deadlifts.

I did not know how much to lift, so i went pretty light. I only had to do 3 sets to finish my 100 reps.


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## J'Bo (May 8, 2002)

Anyone have tips for a killer shoulder building routine.

I usually do:
military press (3 sets of 8-10reps)
deltoid raises ( same)
reverse pec (same)
arnold press (same)
and finish with 2 sets of 12 reps of shoulder shrugs


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## w8lifter (May 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by J'Bo *_
> Anyone have tips for a killer shoulder building routine.
> 
> I usually do:
> ...




3 sets to reach 100, impressive if you were using enough weight! Took me 5, lol....try to up your weight each week, I'm guessing that you can lift a lot more than you are. If you don't push yourself, your results will show that!

Here's one of DP's workouts:

_Warm-up, some rotator cuff exercises, light shrug, light lateral, light press

Smith machine press to the front, never to the rear (there is no natural movement like that and not worth injury, there are other ways to work that area)

4 ascending sets to almost failure 10,8,6,5
then a triple drop, failure and one forced rep at each weight (we add quarters or quarters and 35's, till we get to 4 various plates on a side, the ladies do dimes. Sometimes if I'm working with a smaller guy, we go 25,25,10,25 or 25, 10, 10 ,25)

or DB pressing, sometimes Arnold's, , or seated or standing BB, or clean and press, 4-5 sets

Next laterals up and down the rack
first set (adjust the weights to you)
15,20,25,20,15 4 reps each
next 15,20,25,30,25,20,15 3 reps each
then 20,25,30,35,30,25,20 3 reps each
and then top down
40,35,30,25,20,15 (the record rep out is like 27 times) failure at each weight

or cable laterals, 3 sets ascending and a fourth set, time under tension. We go against each other at our respective weights, both using right arm or left arm, 5 reps and then hold, hold ,hold, and hold some more!

or lean aways, or straight sets heavier, seated laterals, or machince or a giant set of 3 or more of these

Then shrugs, either heavy seated with a cambered bar 6 sets heavy or,

a triset with DB's, smith (front or back) and either a trap bar (diamond shape) or machine shrug 4 sets ascending of three exercises, 8-10 reps, no rest between exercises, rest 3 minutes between sets.

Front laterals: one arm cable holding the little ball, or 2 arm rope between the legs, or heavy DB's (I PR at 60# two weeks ago, shitty form), 4 ascending sets

rarely, up and down (ladders) the rack

we have plates with handles, so sometimes we front raise with those, but 45's are too small unless you hold the contraction longer

or heavey straight sets, or we have fixed bars by 10's so we lean against a poll with these, 4 sets

Lastly rears, our favorite is a reverse flye between the cables with a low incline bench, 4 sets ascending or, a triset with bentover laterals, side bench, and one arm cable seated, or just plain old on your stomach on an incline bench rear raise. Very rarely, machine rears. 4 sets 10,8,8,6

If we have done less work or skipped some shrugs or other exercises we do upright rowing, BB wide grip to the pec line, supersetted with narrow grip cable to the chin, with a 3 secind pause 8-10 reps, 4 sets ascending


Again I want to emphasize, don't do everything, it takes years to be able to do 40 heavier sets and still be able to hold the phone, these are just some suggestions!

DP

_


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## J'Bo (May 8, 2002)

Thanks again W8.

I took the program and modified it a bit.
Actually i split it into a heavy and light day.
It's ok to train shoulders twice a week right?

This is what my week looks like:
Monday: Heavy Shoulders and Abs
Tuesday: Back and Biceps
Wednesday: Legs (yippee)
Thursday: Off
Friday: Chest and Triceps
Saturday: Light Shoulders and 20 Minutes Cardio (endurance)
Sunday: Off


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## w8lifter (May 8, 2002)

LOL @ .........

Yes, that looks good.

So do you have a website? Do you plan on modelling at all?


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## J'Bo (May 8, 2002)

No website yet.
I would love to get into modelling.
I was going to do the Canadian National Physique Challenge in June, but decided to try to build more muscle and concentrate on my Provincial competition in September.


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## J'Bo (May 9, 2002)

*OH MY!*

Oh my lord!

All i can say is i will never lack protein if i could drink this all day i would .

I figured i would try what the doctors ordered (cornfed and W8).
Except i had taken my creatine already, so i mixed strawberries, cream, water, protein and sweetner in the blender. Heaven on earth. 

Did i defeat the entire purpose of using cream and strawberries? Or is this ok to mix this with the protein? Cause i am lovin it.

Can i eat the cream and strawberries in am with creatine, and in pm with protein?

:bounce:


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## w8lifter (May 9, 2002)

LOL!...it does seem heavenly doesn't it ....Yeah, mix it all in the blender, I love it


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## J'Bo (May 9, 2002)

Say it ain't true i CAN have one cream/straw/creat/water and one cream/straw/water/protein a day. That isn't too much cream?

Yippee if so. I love it!
~jumping out of my seat~


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## w8lifter (May 9, 2002)

Well it's in different meals right? 10-15 g fat (2-3 tbsp cream) in each shake.


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## J'Bo (May 9, 2002)

yep its in different meals.

is the picture i gave you going to work?


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## J'Bo (May 9, 2002)

*Salt?*

I have been reading alot that you should over indulge in salt (and salty foods) pre contest. Why? What does that do? Cause if i can eat all the salt i want, then i won't have the urge to go sugar.

If this is true information, then how long before a contest do you cut salt out?


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## w8lifter (May 9, 2002)

Not really....just keep your sodium levels the same as you have been...you shouldn't overload or even add salt to many meals at all. There's a lot of sodium in what we eat in general...eggs, tuna, beef, etc. You don't really have to worry about that stuff till your last week out, and it gets pretty complicated...do you have a trainer to help you w/ the final week?


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## J'Bo (May 9, 2002)

No, but you want to be mine?
You are a real pro and i could surely use you.

Email me your info.


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## J'Bo (May 9, 2002)

*PB*

Hey where do you get your peanut butter from?
What kind do you use?
I geuss Kraft Light PB is out since sugar is the 3rd ingrediant.
I thought i could get away with it.
Damn.


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## J'Bo (May 9, 2002)

Hey like my avatar?


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## cornfed (May 9, 2002)

luv it.  one thing I wouldn't put the cream w/ the creatine, but w/ the protein instead.  for reasons I stated about the GI issue.  look for natural PB.


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## Lorraine (Jun 16, 2002)

J'Bo~I noticed you mentioned you had trouble eating egg whites in large quantities.  I believe it was recommend you eat 6 and you could only choke down maybe 4.  I had the same problem until it was suggested to me to scramble the buggers.  Now if I see a boiled egg I'll puke.

I use the butter flavored pam, scramble them, dump in a bowl and shovel them down with a spoon.

If you're eating oatmeal and egg whites you can try this.
3 egg whites
1/2 cup oatmeal
2 packets of splenda or some of the sugar free syrups made with splenda from www.davincigourmet.com (blueberry is excellent)
vanilla extract
cinnamon (optional)

Mix it together cook like a pancake in a skillet sprayed with butter flavored pam.  The remainin egg whites for that meal...scramble them up and dump on top of your oatmeal pancake.


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## J'Bo (Jun 17, 2002)

Thanks for the idea Lorraine. 

I finally gave up oatmeal 2 days ago, instead i am having a sweet potato. The oatmeal just kept on coming up. I am used to the eggs now though.


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## Pitboss (Jun 19, 2002)

Hmmm just a little bump...  Yummy!!! and congrats on your first comp.  You have the build, height, and obviously the desire to compete at a much higher level!!!!


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## nikegurl (Jun 19, 2002)

Hi J'Bo -  I have a sweet potato question for you.

What are you using for nutritional info?  I hate the way fitday gives it.  I think it's like a cup of cubed sweet potato.  Seems to vague.  You can pack the cubes tight or loosely into a measuring cup - ya know?

Do you have info by ounces?  Thanks!


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## w8lifter (Jun 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> Hi J'Bo -  I have a sweet potato question for you.
> 
> What are you using for nutritional info?  I hate the way fitday gives it.  I think it's like a cup of cubed sweet potato.  Seems to vague.  You can pack the cubes tight or loosely into a measuring cup - ya know?
> ...




Sweet Potato

*4 oz, baked in skin, pulp only*

117 kcals
2 pro
27.5 carb
3.4 fibre
.1 fat

*baked in skin, pulp only, mashed, 1/2 cup*

103 kcals
1.7 pro
24.3 carb
3 fibre
.1 fat


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## nikegurl (Jun 19, 2002)

you're the best!  do you think the 1/2 cup mashed measure would be a packed 1/2 cup?  that seems easiest.  i've been avoiding them lately just b/c i felt like i wasn't sure of carb/calories etc.

thanks so much!


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## Leslie (Jun 19, 2002)

Same here- I avoided it for the same reason! I'd much rather have a 1/2 sweet potato than brown rice sometimes!


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## w8lifter (Jun 19, 2002)

Just fit it in the cup, lol....it's squishy if you get too much in the cup you'll be able to tell  Geez, you're more anal than me!


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## Pitboss (Jun 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> Just fit it in the cup, lol....it's squishy if you get too much in the cup you'll be able to tell  Geez, you're more anal than me!


I guess if you had a scale you could weigh it


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## w8lifter (Jun 19, 2002)

Yes, I use a scale actually....5 oz = 1/2 cup FYI.


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## Pitboss (Jun 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> Yes, I use a scale actually....5 oz = 1/2 cup FYI.



How'd you get 5oz when you staretd with 4oz with the skin???


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## Lorraine (Jun 19, 2002)

For odd shaped foods like potatoes I weigh them.


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## w8lifter (Jun 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Pitboss *_
> 
> 
> How'd you get 5oz when you staretd with 4oz with the skin???



lmao... Okay....I did have a reason for that but um, well....nevermind    Forget what I said


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## nikegurl (Jun 19, 2002)

ohhh.....5oz or 4?  you guys are doing this to fully exploit my craziness.  i've got a good scale.  i'll use that and go with 4.5 oz

do you think i'm joking?  lol


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## w8lifter (Jun 19, 2002)

lmao...go w/ the above counts for 4 oz


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## nikegurl (Jun 19, 2002)

ok - i will sleep better tonight.  damn i'm crazy.  at least i don't try to deceive people and pretend to be sane.

thanx again!


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## Pitboss (Jun 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> at least i don't try to deceive people and pretend to be sane.



Hey I resemble that remark!!!!!


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## J'Bo (Jun 19, 2002)

Is the 4oz potato and steak supposed to be the pre cooking weight or post?


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