# My 1-ANDRO Rx cycle



## Call of Ktulu (Jul 11, 2011)

I am going to start it soon, in a few months. Tell what I should change or add, ext..

I want to keep muscle but cut.
Here it is:

-----------------------------------------------------
*on cycle*
Four weeks: andro - 3 caps a day
cycle support: 
Anabolic-Matrix Rx - 2 caps daily with food
E-Control Rx - 3 caps daily
Advanced Cycle Support Rx - 2-4 caps daily
maybe use horny goat weed 

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*pct*: Anabolic-Matrix Rx - 2 caps daily with food
E-Control Rx - 3 caps daily
Advanced Cycle Support Rx - 2-4 caps daily
*100/100/100/50 Clomid (50mg taken twice per day weeks 1-3)*

*20mg/20mg/20mg/10mg Aromasin (20mg daily for 3 weeks, 10mg daily in week 4)*

HCGenerate: 1 pill a day
-----------------------------------------------------------

Is it okay to take clomid and aromasin with the other pills? Could I take something such as clomid during cycle to ease into pct? What are andro's effects on libido? How long did it take you to bounce back from a cycle of Andro? Is my Andro cycle not strong enough? Could I use letro during and after cycle? Is nolva better than clomid or should I take both? ps. This is my second ever prohormone cycle.


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## Aries1 (Jul 11, 2011)

I take 6 caps per day with Test. Its a very good hardening compound from my standpoint. Your PCT looks a little aggressive to me for this compound alone. How old are you?


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## Call of Ktulu (Jul 11, 2011)

Aries1 said:


> I take 6 caps per day with Test. Its a very good hardening compound from my standpoint. Your PCT looks a little aggressive to me for this compound alone. How old are you?


 21 almost 22. How can I fix it? Should I up the Andro or get rid of some of the pills in pct?


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## Aries1 (Jul 11, 2011)

This is my opinion; Clomid 50mg-4wks
                          Aromasin 10mg-4wks

The rest is fine.


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## oufinny (Jul 11, 2011)

Aries1 said:


> This is my opinion; Clomid 50mg-4wks
> Aromasin 10mg-4wks
> 
> The rest is fine.



What Aries said, and bump it to 6 per day.  Also, get some naringin extract from Swanson, it will help make it more bioavailable.  I did this with my andro cycle and it helped a lot.


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## Call of Ktulu (Jul 11, 2011)

Aries1 said:


> This is my opinion; Clomid 50mg-4wks
> Aromasin 10mg-4wks
> 
> The rest is fine.


 So I keep the e control and anabolic matrix, the same?


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## oufinny (Jul 11, 2011)

I don't see why you would need E-Control with the aromasin, one or the other.  You are talking about a DHT compound, the idea you would need an on cycle AI is kind of contradictory, the Andro is your on cycle AI.  I would start at a low dose if you take the E-Control and see how your joints are.  It will be a very dry run with an AI on board.


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## Call of Ktulu (Jul 11, 2011)

oufinny said:


> I don't see why you would need E-Control with the aromasin, one or the other. You are talking about a DHT compound, the idea you would need an on cycle AI is kind of contradictory, the Andro is your on cycle AI. I would start at a low dose if you take the E-Control and see how your joints are. It will be a very dry run with an AI on board.


 What about andro with e control, anabolic matrix and hcgenerate and nothing else for pct?


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## Aries1 (Jul 11, 2011)

Personally, I would choose one or the other when it comes to E-control and A-sin. This product is very mild, bro. Effective but mild. Don't try to over think this cycle. Is this your first cycle?


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## pasamoto (Jul 11, 2011)

do you even need a serm for a 4wk run of 1andro? its not that suppresive, 3 caps a day is not much


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## Boogz1218 (Jul 11, 2011)

I followed the exact cycle on the IronMag site, no issues, gained a good amount of weight.  And held it.


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## Aries1 (Jul 11, 2011)

pasamoto said:


> do you even need a serm for a 4wk run of 1andro? its not that suppresive, 3 caps a day is not much


No way to tell without bloodwork before and after. Why take the chance?


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## Peyot (Jul 11, 2011)

I would personally not choose this compound 

A very experienced user over at PHF runs just about every PH in the book, and threw this thing in the garbage because it gave him the worst lethargy imaginable.

This was the 1-T product from Primordial. It contains the same ingredient.

Just my thought that I got from him.


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## Peyot (Jul 11, 2011)

pasamoto said:


> do you even need a serm for a 4wk run of 1andro? its not that suppresive, 3 caps a day is not much


 

Hey Bro, you over here too ?

I agree he should use a SERM for this run.

Nolva: 20/20/10/10 would suffice.


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## Aries1 (Jul 11, 2011)

Peyot said:


> I would personally not choose this compound
> 
> A very experienced user over at PHF runs just about every PH in the book, and threw this thing in the garbage because it gave him the worst lethargy imaginable.
> 
> ...


This anecdotal regurgitation is not helpful. So many things wrong in this post that I can't even begin to dissect it. Suffice to say; 1-Andro RX did not make your friend lethargic.


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## Peyot (Jul 11, 2011)

Aries1 said:


> This anecdotal regurgitation is not helpful. So many things wrong in this post that I can't even begin to dissect it. Suffice to say; 1-Andro RX did not make your friend lethargic.


 
That's your opinion. I'll respect it. Hopefully you can respect mine.

Why don't you ask him. You think I'm talking for nothing. You're wrong.


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## Peyot (Jul 11, 2011)

Aries1 said:


> 1-Andro RX did not make your friend lethargic.


 
The same ingredient that is in 1-Andro RX is in 1-T LV by Primordial Performance.

I said he took 1-T by PP. Is that clear?


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## Peyot (Jul 11, 2011)

I just did a double-check of both products. It is the same ingredient:

1-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one [aka, 1-Androsterone??? or 1-DHEA].

Thank you.


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## Aries1 (Jul 11, 2011)

Peyot said:


> That's your opinion. I'll respect it. Hopefully you can respect mine.
> 
> Why don't you ask him. You think I'm talking for nothing. You're wrong.


Not trying to be an ass but your post was very irresponsible. Making claims like this with absolutely no solid scientific evidence(not to mention here-say) immediately throws a red flag for me. Let us not forget that you also mentioned that a completely different product gave someone lethargy-like symptoms and used that as evidence to support your claim. Just be a bit more careful when making suggestions like this.


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## Aries1 (Jul 11, 2011)

Peyot said:


> I just did a double-check of both products. It is the same ingredient:
> 
> 1-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one [aka, 1-Androsterone??? or 1-DHEA].
> 
> Thank you.


Lol...and as such why would you assume that DHEA would make someone lethargic? Not helping your cause here, dude.


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## Peyot (Jul 11, 2011)

Aries1 said:


> Not trying to be an ass but your post was very irresponsible. Making claims like this with absolutely no solid scientific evidence(not to mention here-say) immediately throws a red flag for me. Let us not forget that you also mentioned that a completely different product gave someone lethargy-like symptoms and used that as evidence to support your claim. Just be a bit more careful when making suggestions like this.


 
I completely disagree with your above statement.

I'm perfectly correct in what I am stating.

Go over to PHF and ask dml11 yourself.

Come back and tell me what he says.

Thank you.


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## Peyot (Jul 11, 2011)

Aries1 said:


> Lol...and as such why would you assume that DHEA would make someone lethargic? Not helping your cause here, dude.


 

Are you a rep for IronMag Supplements?


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## Peyot (Jul 11, 2011)

Aries1 said:


> Lol...and as such why would you assume that DHEA would make someone lethargic?


 
He told me so. Therefore I am not assuming anything.

It was the worst lethargy he had ever experienced in his life.

That's what he told me and that's what I'm warning the OP about.


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## Peyot (Jul 11, 2011)

In fact, I'll be glad to find it in a Thread for you. Would you like me to do that?


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## Aries1 (Jul 11, 2011)

Peyot said:


> I completely disagree with your above statement.
> 
> I'm perfectly correct in what I am stating.
> 
> ...


Oh lord...


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## Peyot (Jul 11, 2011)

Aries1 said:


> Oh lord...


 
I made the statement that I made and hopefully it will help the OP. Another member just had the same issue with the same compound. I helped him and I'm trying to help the OP ...if that's alright with you that is...


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## Aries1 (Jul 11, 2011)

Peyot said:


> I made the statement that I made and hopefully it will help the OP. Another member just had the same issue with the same compound. I helped him and I'm trying to help the OP ...if that's alright with you that is...


You realize that DHEA is often used to PREVENT lethargy, right? Your intentions may have been sincere(I have no reason to doubt you) but your method is my concern when giving advice. Just trying to keep this thread productive, dude.

And LOL@ me being a rep for anyone.


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## Peyot (Jul 11, 2011)

Aries1 said:


> You realize that DHEA is often used to PREVENT lethargy, right? Your intentions may have been sincere(I have no reason to doubt you) but your method is my concern when giving advice. Just trying to keep this thread productive, dude.
> 
> And LOL@ me being a rep for anyone.


 
Well, please forgive me and I mean no disrespect, but I learn by following the advice of experienced members. I think we all do.

Maybe you'll venture over to PHF just in case you don't have an account there already, and you'll see just how productive we are over there.

Good luck to you and OP, keep in mind what I said.

Thanks.


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## girpy (Jul 12, 2011)

I am on my last week of a 1-andro rx cycle (up to 8 caps daily). For me, it did give a small amount of lethargy but it was nothing a cup of coffee in the morning couldn't fix. Plus the added strength was more than worth it.


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## TJTJ (Jul 12, 2011)

girpy said:


> I am on my last week of a 1-andro rx cycle (up to 8 caps daily). For me, it did give a small amount of lethargy but it was nothing a cup of coffee in the morning couldn't fix. Plus the added strength was more than worth it.



right on dude

how are your results so far?


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## Call of Ktulu (Jul 12, 2011)

Aries1 said:


> Personally, I would choose one or the other when it comes to E-control and A-sin. This product is very mild, bro. Effective but mild. Don't try to over think this cycle. Is this your first cycle?


 This is my second cycle. My first cycle was methadrol extreme I finished a month ago. It took 5 weeks to bounce back though. I am probably going to do Andro cycle in about 6 months.


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## Call of Ktulu (Jul 12, 2011)

Aries1 said:


> Personally, I would choose one or the other when it comes to E-control and A-sin. This product is very mild, bro. Effective but mild. Don't try to over think this cycle. Is this your first cycle?


 Also would it be okay you just not use a research chemical such as nolva and clomid and just use e control and anabolic matrix as directed by ironmags forums. Also would it be okay to up the dosage to 6 caps per day for 6 weeks. Im asking because it took me over a month to bounce back from methadrol extreme.


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## girpy (Jul 12, 2011)

TJTJ said:


> right on dude
> 
> how are your results so far?



I am loving it. Besides the slight lethargy I am having no sides at all. People have commented that I look bigger so I guess there has been some mass increase but best part for me is all my main lifts went up by 20-30 lb, when before this I was adding  5 lb every other week and I am only 3 weeks into this.

Incase anyone cares I am basically following the Ironmaglabs dosing but with 800 instead of 600 so....

6 1 andro rx per day
2 anabolic matrix

and for PCT just anabolic matrix at same dose + e-control.


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## Peyot (Jul 12, 2011)

For those of you who posted that an OCT PCT is enough, I disagree. This PH will shut you down and it is in your best interest to use a SERM PCT to recover as quickly as possible.

The longer it takes your natural test production to get up and running, the greater your chances of you losing your hard-earned gains.

Also, right after your cycle your estrogen is high. A SERM such as Nolvadex is the safest protection to block the occurance of gyno.


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## Aries1 (Jul 12, 2011)

Call of Ktulu said:


> Also would it be okay you just not use a research chemical such as nolva and clomid and just use e control and anabolic matrix as directed by ironmags forums. Also would it be okay to up the dosage to 6 caps per day for 6 weeks. Im asking because it took me over a month to bounce back from methadrol extreme.


The 6OXO in the e-control is very effective, no doubt. However, I would seriously recommend adding the clomid. If you are shut down at all the clomid is very effective helping you bounce back. That being said, I almost assure you that this will be a much milder cycle than the methadrol extreme. The Andro has to convert while the Methadrol is active in the pill. Two different animals. 

My take on the Andro is very different than that of someone taking it alone. As I am running test with it I won't be sure of how it shuts me down as I am fairly "out of business" in that department already. 

6caps for 6wks would be ideal, in my opinion.


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## Call of Ktulu (Jul 12, 2011)

Peyot said:


> For those of you who posted that an OCT PCT is enough, I disagree. This PH will shut you down and it is in your best interest to use a SERM PCT to recover as quickly as possible.
> 
> The longer it takes your natural test production to get up and running, the greater your chances of you losing your hard-earned gains.
> 
> Also, right after your cycle your estrogen is high. A SERM such as Nolvadex is the safest protection to block the occurance of gyno.


 so e control and anabolic matrix as direct by ironmags and nolvadex. 
Why nolva or clomid? How do you does clomid or nolvadex with e control and anabolic matrix?


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## anab0lix (Jul 12, 2011)

Hey OP good luck on your cycle.

Im on day 4 of 1andro@ 600mg stacked with dplex@ 150mg. So far so good.


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## TJTJ (Jul 13, 2011)

1-Andro is very mild IMO. Most of it is destroyed by your liver. I ran it at a 1g a day for 4 weeks then ran the previous version of E-Control (1,4,6-Androstatriene-3,17-dione) with AMRx and was fine. I added one cap of e-control on the 3rd week then bumped it to two of the previous version of e-control for my pct( btw I have an unopened bottle Im trying to sell). Later ran Super DMZ. Now that needed a stronger PCT and I used Clomid. I wasnt a fan of the hot flashes it gave me. I also heard that clomid has the ability for estro rebound. 

Youre doing fine imo. Im about to run 1-andro again at 800mg in a couple of weeks. Looking forward to it. 
*
*


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## Call of Ktulu (Jul 13, 2011)

TJTJ said:


> 1-Andro is very mild IMO. Most of it is destroyed by your liver. I ran it at a 1g a day for 4 weeks then ran the previous version of E-Control (1,4,6-Androstatriene-3,17-dione) with AMRx and was fine. I added one cap of e-control on the 3rd week then bumped it to two of the previous version of e-control for my pct( btw I have an unopened bottle Im trying to sell). Later ran Super DMZ. Now that needed a stronger PCT and I used Clomid. I wasnt a fan of the hot flashes it gave me. I also heard that clomid has the ability for estro rebound.
> 
> Youre doing fine imo. Im about to run 1-andro again at 800mg in a couple of weeks. Looking forward to it.
> *
> *


So e control and anabolic matrix only is okay for a 6 week with 6 caps andro cycle? Do I have to use clomid or nolva with this in your opinion?


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## TJTJ (Jul 13, 2011)

Call of Ktulu said:


> So e control and anabolic matrix only is okay for a 6 week with 6 caps andro cycle? Do I have to use clomid or nolva with this in your opinion?



I havent before and Im not again for 1-andro. By what Ive heard 6-oxo is good stuff. I wouldnt sweat it. But keep doing your research dude. Educate yourself. Use the search button most questions have already been asked and answered. This might help...

-Pharmaceutical Grade 1-Androsterone
-Increases Lean Muscle Mass
-Increases Strength & Power
-Helps with Cutting (getting lean)
-Converts to 1-Testosterone
-7 X the Anabolic Potency of Testosterone
-Does Not Convert to Estrogen or DHT
-No Bloating or Water Retention

The pro-hormone 1-Androsterone (aka 1-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one) the main  ingredient in 1-Andro Rx converts to 1-testosterone and you will  experience similar results that were seen with 1-AD and M1T before they  were banned. 1-Androsterone does NOT convert to estrogen or DHT and is  not liver toxic.

The strong anabolic properties of 1-testosterone have been established  in the literature. Research conducted in the 60's found that  1-testosterone had a myotrophic (anabolic) potency of 200 as compared to  26 for testosterone, making it over 7 times as anabolic. This was done  using the rat levator ani assay, which is commonly used to test the  anabolic potency of steroids. In addition to this, 1-testosterone and  1-AD are both unable to aromatize to estrogen. Hence these substances  cause very significant increases in muscle size and strength with about  the androgenic potential of testosterone and almost no estrogenic side  effects (water retention, fat gain, gynecomastia).

*1-Testosterone Facts (1-Andro Rx converts to the active hormone 1-testosterone):*

- Increases lean muscle mass, strength, muscle hardness and vascularity
- 7 times the anabolic potency of testosterone
- Decreases body fat - High oral bioavailability
- Long plasma half-life
- Well absorbed through the gut
- Is not converted to estrogen in the body, therefore causes no breast enlargement or water retention
- No conversion into DHT in the body, therefore won’t cause acne, scalp-hair loss, or body/facial hair growth
- No liver damage, stomach discomfort, or toxicity

*1-Androsterone*

_By Jason Rowland_

*1-androsten-3b-ol-17-one*
*1-Dehydroepiandrosterone*
*Chemical Formula: C19H28O2*
*Molecular Weight: NA*
*CAS: NA*
*Q Qatio: NA*
*Anabolic #: NA*
*Androgenic #: NA*
*Oral Bioavailability: Estimated at 8%*
*AR Binding Affinity: NA*
*SHBG Binding Affinity: NA*
*Half Life: NA*
*Legal Status (US): Not listed as a controlled  substance*
*Average Dose: *
*200-300mg/day Transdermally*
*400-600mg/day standalone (oral)*
*200-400mg/day when stacking (oral)*

*Characteristics*

1- Androsterone™ (1-DHEA) is a non-methylated (non 17aa) pro-steroid   that must convert to 1-androstenediol (1-AD), 1-androstenedione   (original 1-AD) and/or 1-testosterone to be active. The double bond in   the 1st position seems to slightly enhance its ability to resist   excretion by the liver.

1-Androsterone occurs naturally in the body, and is a naturally   occurring metabolite of DHEA. (2) The 17b-HSD enzyme converts   1-Androsterone to 1-Androstenediol, and the 3b-HSD converts it to   1-Androstenedione. Both of these 1-AD metabolites can then be converted   to 1-Testosterone. Although the 1-AD metabolites are known to have some   anabolic and androgenic effects on their own, 1-Testosterone is  probably  where most of the effects come from with this steroid. 

There is no conversion to estrogen so users will not experience bloat   with this compound, nor will it have a dramatic effect on blood   pressure. However one unique side effect that users have reported with   this compound is a feeling of lethargy. (It appears that stacking   1-Androsterone with a nuero-active hormone such as DHEA can help reverse   this effect)

1-Androsterone (and primarily its metabolites) have relatively potent   androgenic effects, therefore gyno is almost never an issue. However,   because of the androgenic potency, this compound could pose a mild hair   loss risk for those prone to MPB. Because this steroid is non-17aa  there  should be less concern about it negatively affecting the HDL/LDL  ratio.  
Results from this compound generally take a couple weeks to be realized.   Moderate gains of lean muscle mass and strength can be expected, but   users should not expect rapid increases in size or weight with this   compound since extra-cellular and intra-cellular water retention are   very minimal. This makes the gains from this steroid fairly easy to   maintain post cycle. 

1-Androsterone will stack well with almost any compound. For more   dramatic gains in size and strength it is recommended to stack this   compound with an aromatizing steroid or possibly one of the   progestational compounds listed elsewhere.

*References*

_1. 17beta-hydroxy-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one (1-testosterone) is a  potent androgen with anabolic properties._
_A Friedel, et al._
_Toxicol Lett, Aug 2006; 165(2): 149-55._
_2. “Metabolism of 1-Dehydroandrostanes in Man” _
_Galletti and Gardi, et al._
_J Steroid Biochem, 3 (1972), 933-936


_


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## Peyot (Jul 15, 2011)

1-test is known to be a libido-killer. I would have Cialis on hand.


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## Call of Ktulu (Jul 15, 2011)

Peyot said:


> 1-test is known to be a libido-killer. I would have Cialis on hand.


 Worse than methadrol? Permanent libido killer? Whered you hear this?


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## TJTJ (Jul 15, 2011)

Peyot said:


> 1-test is known to be a libido-killer. I would have Cialis on hand.



Thats BS  I know first hand. I wanted to jump on almost every women I saw and my dick was like Superman

Where did you get this speculated information from? Whos your source?


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## Call of Ktulu (Jul 15, 2011)

TJTJ said:


> Thats BS I know first hand. I wanted to jump on almost every women I saw and my dick was like Superman


I read it does both. When on Methadrol Extreme I had points in time when it was very high and low. I think it is probably 90 - 100% mental though. It has to be.


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## TJTJ (Jul 15, 2011)

Call of Ktulu said:


> I read it does both. When on Methadrol Extreme I had points in time when it was very high and low. I think it is probably 90 - 100% mental though. It has to be.



Thats because Methadrol is a true pro-anabolic steroid. 1-Andro is a ph. It quite weak compared to Mdrol. When I was on SuperDMZ only during my PCT had my libido lessened. imo due to experience youre in the clear. Remember my friend. Do your own research. Yes its helpful to get advice from some here but you must be selective to whom you listen to.


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## Peyot (Jul 15, 2011)

TJTJ said:


> Thats BS I know first hand. I wanted to jump on almost every women I saw and my dick was like Superman
> 
> Where did you get this speculated information from? Whos your source?


 
I got it from a member who knows his stuff at PHF. Is that ok with you?


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## TJTJ (Jul 15, 2011)

Peyot said:


> I got it from a member who knows his stuff at PHF. Is that ok with you?



Youve been all over this thread trying to freak this dude out from the  beginning. You can say all you want about what some other "member" said  to you on a another forum. Its not even your own knowledge.  Its all hear say from you. This is not conducive to being helpful on a site for those looking  for it. Talk all you want. I just hope no one is idiotic enough to listen to you.


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## Call of Ktulu (Jul 15, 2011)

TJTJ said:


> Youve been all over this thread trying to freak this dude out from the beginning. You can say all you want about what some other "member" said to you on a another forum. Its not even your own knowledge. Its all hear say from you. This is not conducive to being helpful on a site for those looking for it. Talk all you want. I just hope no one is idiotic enough to listen to you.


Well I like everyone to contribute, even if anything is exagerrated so I can find out for myself and not later on. I like to hear the extremes of both sides.


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## anab0lix (Jul 15, 2011)

I agree with peyot. Im running 1 andro@ 600mg and dplex@ 150mg. Something that converts to 1-AD, I'd definitely have a SERM on hand.

My PCT is this:
Nolva@ 20/20/10/10/10
SNS D.A.A. Caps 4/4/4/4
SNS Reduce XT 50/50/50/50mg during week 3 of PCT
After PCT I'll be running 6-Bromo@ 50/50/50/50mg


Im extremely gyno prone as well.


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## Peyot (Jul 15, 2011)

*A Real Winner*



TJTJ said:


> Youve been all over this thread trying to freak this dude out from the beginning. You can say all you want about what some other "member" said to you on a another forum. Its not even your own knowledge. Its all hear say from you. This is not conducive to being helpful on a site for those looking for it. Talk all you want. I just hope no one is idiotic enough to listen to you.


 
You are entitled to your opinion. I'm letting him know what is pretty much common knowledge on another Forum. If you choose to disregard what is said and shared on other Forums, that's your perrogative. I'm being helpful by sharing my knowledge gained from where ever it is gained from. It certainly sounds like you are jealous that I'm coming into "your" Forum and discussing the knowledge I have.

I will talk all I want. Thanks for giving me your permission. Maybe you should try to accept other positions as valid, and not just your own or what members on your Forum have learned and experienced.

That being said, I will certainly refrain from insulting you as you have insulted me: "I just hope no one is idiotic enough to listen to you."

I wish you the best in your PH/DS/AAS endevours.

Oh yes, thanks for repping me. You rep me and tell me to keep my mouth shut in the comment. Sweet.


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## Peyot (Jul 16, 2011)

Oh, my bad. Correction: you NEGGED me.

I have never gotten negged for a good reason. You're negging me because it's a personal issue obviously. I stepped on your toes. Poor fellow. Did I hurt your feelings?

Have a nice day.


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## girpy (Jul 16, 2011)

long story short.......everyone is affected differently by ph's and your results could vary, so better to have more safety measures on hand incase something does come up, even if it might not be likely


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## anab0lix (Jul 16, 2011)

^^ what he said


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## Call of Ktulu (Jul 16, 2011)

By the way, what's wrong with having too strong of pct?


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## Peyot (Jul 16, 2011)

Well, if you listen to folks like Primordial, you will be of the mind that too much Nolva or Clomid is toxic to the system.

I personally don't think - from the studies I have seen - that the amounts that we recommend for PCT will do any harm. I would not recommend going above 20mgs Nolva, or 50mgs Clomid. The reason is that there is a curve where if you are over this amount, there is not more benefit and there is more chance of side effects.

For a relatively mild PH such as the one we are looking at here, I would recommend either Nolva 20/20/10/10 or Clomid 50/50/25/25, but not both. Torem can also be used, although from my personal experience, either Research Chemical or Pharma Grade is expensive. If you choose Torem, the standard dose is 90/60/60/30.

For stronger PH/AAS, longer cycles can be used, and for certain strong cycles both Nolva and Clomid can be used together.

Generally, a SERM + a natural test booster such as Testforce2 is all that is needed for PCT. A Cortisol control product can be used, and is generally introduced the beginning of the third week of PCT. I like Reduce XT or Lean Extreme personally.

Some members wish to add OTC PCT to their SERM PCT protocol, but I prefer not to. I have pharma grade Aromasin (an AI) on hand in case additional estrogen control is needed, but only use it if it is called for.

If you have any other specific questions that I can answer, I will try.


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## Peyot (Jul 16, 2011)

Call of Ktulu said:


> Worse than methadrol? Permanent libido killer? Whered you hear this?



Superdrol is generally considered to be the strongest PH, and some classify it as an oral AAS. Regardless of its actual classification, it is certainly very strong.

Many sides such as loss of libido are user-dependent. To give you a personal example, many members claim that Epi causes hair loss and are very leary of using it for this reason. I ran Epi for an extended period of time, and upwards of 70mgs, and literally did not lose a single hair.

Does this mean that someone is wrong? Are the folks that have hair loss from Epi misreporting, or am I? The concept of user dependent sides comes into play here.

Harsh compounds are labeled harsh because they are more apt to produce sides than milder compounds. I think in general, for this reason, the likelihood that Superdrol will negatively impact your libido is greater because it is know to be harsh. Is it a given that it will cause this more than 1-Andro? No, not if we apply the user dependent concept here.

Do I have exact statistics on which does more? No.


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## Aries1 (Jul 17, 2011)

Peyot said:


> You are entitled to your opinion. _*I'm letting him know what is pretty much common knowledge on another Forum.*_ If you choose to disregard what is said and shared on other Forums, that's your perrogative._* I'm being helpful by sharing my knowledge*_ gained from where ever it is gained from. It certainly sounds like you are jealous that I'm coming into "your" Forum and _*discussing the knowledge I have*_.


This was my issue with your posts as well, bro. Your "knowledge" is nothing of the sort. Your "knowledge" consists of anecdotal evidence that you read from another poster. What you are doing is akin to spreading rumors. Having read a lot of the posts in this section(chem sec) I decided to stay at IM because the majority of posters prefer info based in fact that has been proven through scientific studies and methods and are repeatable. 

My point is that your info may be absolutely correct but it would be pure luck and nothing else. Thank you for your input and passion to help.


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## Peyot (Jul 17, 2011)

Aries1 said:


> This was my issue with your posts as well, bro. Your "knowledge" is nothing of the sort. Your "knowledge" consists of anecdotal evidence that you read from another poster. What you are doing is akin to spreading rumors. Having read a lot of the posts in this section(chem sec) I decided to stay at IM because the majority of posters prefer info based in fact that has been proven through scientific studies and methods and are repeatable.
> 
> My point is that your info may be absolutely correct but it would be pure luck and nothing else. Thank you for your input and passion to help.



My knowledge consists of what I have learned, just like your knowledge consists of what you have learned. What you are saying is absurd actually. You are giving information the same way as I am. Tell me that all of the advice you give comes from your own experience. I'd be willing to bet it doesn't. You give advice based on what you have learned to be true, and I'm sure that a lot of what you have learned has come from what you have learned from other knowledgable members. Have you tested everything you have given advice about? If you say, "Yes," I won't believe you and I doubt whether others reading this will believe you.

You guys in this Forum want to continue to attack me? Go right ahead. You're only making yourselves look bad.


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## Peyot (Jul 17, 2011)

TJTJ said:


> Thats BS
> 
> Where did you get this speculated information from? Whos your source?





Aries1 said:


> This was my issue with your posts as well, bro. Your "knowledge" is nothing of the sort. Your "knowledge" consists of anecdotal evidence that you read from another poster. What you are doing is akin to spreading rumors. Having read a lot of the posts in this section(chem sec) I decided to stay at IM because the majority of posters prefer info based in fact that has been proven through scientific studies and methods and are repeatable.
> 
> My point is that your info may be absolutely correct but it would be pure luck and nothing else. Thank you for your input and passion to help.



You guys want to have it out? Ok. I'll stand up.

TJTJ, you asked me who my source was. It it Devastating Dave. I'll link you to the Thread which discusses a 1-Andro cycle. Aries1, I already told you who my source was: dml11. These are both my friends and very knowledgable members over at PHF. Don't give me the hogwash that I'm spreading rumors. Where did you get then idiotic notion from? These guys aren't trolls and neither am I. They are well respected members of the community that you also belong to. Just cause they reside on another subject-related Forum, and just because I'm citing them as a source makes me or them somehow less valuable? What makes you think you know more then us? Your knowledge is superior? I think you're kidding yourselves. You may be trying to kid me, but the joke is on you.


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## Peyot (Jul 17, 2011)

*Source Thread*

Here is the Thread.

I contributed to the Thread, and the OP responded to my Post saying that he did have lethargy as I warned.

Devastating Dave's Post about 1-test being a libido killer is Post #18.

Moderators, I looked in the stickies for rules about posting to other sites. I couldn't locate any rules. If I've broken the rules by doing this, please let me know and accept my sincere apologies.


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## Peyot (Jul 17, 2011)

Aries1 said:


> ...
> My point is that your info may be absolutely correct but it would be pure luck and nothing else.



I'm sorry, but this statement makes absolutely no sense. If you think it makes sense, more power to you.

If the info is correct, it would be great that I got it to the OP, or to whomever else takes this compound and is helped by it. Why are you trying to turn this into a personal attack? Why are you and TJTJ so jealous of me?


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## Peyot (Jul 17, 2011)

TJTJ, this is what you posted in the PM where you negged me:

"until you know waht youre talking about just keep your thoughts to yourself."

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but how old are you? Don't you even know how to spell "what?" Don't you know how to punctuate? "youre" should be punctuated as "you're."

You don't think I know what I'm talking about? That's your opinion. I may not know as much as you, or I may know more. You never know. Why are you so insulting? What did I do to hurt your feelings? You think you know everything there is to know about Prohormones? Are you even a lifter? Now I'm curious as to who you are. You seem to be pretty insecure if you are acting this way towards me. What's the problem? You want to make this personal? I'm right here. I never get negged. I don't deserve it. You think you have some power on this Board because you have some reps and your going to neg me for a personal issue? What's your problem?

Edit: your profile says you have been lifting weights for 4 years and that you're a personal trainer and a student. I've been lifting weights my whole adult life. I have a Log running as long as you've been lifting, and I've probably been in this game since way before you were born. Yeah, you know more than me. Right.


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