# Bush's rotten capitalist system



## GFR (Sep 12, 2005)

*Bush's rotten capitalist system * 
THOUSANDS IN New Orleans and throughout the Gulf Coast have died of drowning, dehydration, starvation and lack of medical care. Refugee camps are packed with tens of thousands of victims. They have no secure shelter and no regular sources of food and water. Even more have been left behind to fend for themselves in a total hell-hole that was once known for its culture, art, food and hospitality. 

Bryan Koulouris, New York City, USA 
The US corporate media has portrayed as criminals the overwhelmingly poor Black residents left behind in squalor because they are taking food, water, clothing and other things to survive. However, the blame for the chaos in New Orleans should lie squarely on the shoulders of Bush, big business, and the system that values profits over lives. 

The "American nightmare" of the living conditions faced in the US inner cities is now clear to the entire world. Before the storm, New Orleans had an illiteracy rate of over 40%. Nearly 20% of the city's residents lived below the poverty line. Just like thousands of homes on the Gulf Coast, the roof has been torn off of US society for all to see the rotten underbelly of the world's biggest economic and military power. 

The absolutely revolting thing about this entire tragedy is that none of this had to happen. The flood prevention system in New Orleans has seen drastic budget cuts. Over the last five years, over $70 million have been taken away from disaster prevention in New Orleans. Compare that to over one billion dollars each week spent on Iraq. Now, New Orleans looks more like Fallujah, an entire city reduced to rubble with unimaginable conditions and dead bodies everywhere. This is the war at home. It's about time we started fighting back to win some battles. 

US workers have been hit over the last 20 years with de-industrialisation, a falling rate of unionisation, and massive budget cuts. Millions have no access to healthcare. One-third of US citizens are in debt. Two million are in jail. There is no future for working-class youth, unless you like flipping burgers or dodging bullets (in Iraq or at home). And it isn't getting any better unless we do something about it. 

Mass demonstrations are needed in solidarity with the victims of Katrina. Bush and corporate America won't give up anything without a fight, so we need to bring the fight to them. We need to demand decent jobs, a massive public works programme, affordable public housing, access to free healthcare and an end to the occupation of Iraq. 

To win these demands, lobbying politicians won't get the job done. We need to wage a struggle that includes demonstrations, strikes, direct action, and ongoing labour and community organising. 

The problem isn't just Bush; the entire system is designed to benefit a few and keep the rest of us living from paycheck to paycheck. Capitalism is a system responsible for war, poverty and environmental destruction. We need a socialist society based on workers' needs, not corporate greed. 


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After Katrina, socialists say 
Cash for relief not war and profit 
AFTER HURRICANE Katrina Socialist Alternative - the US section of the Committee for a Workers' International which the Socialist Party is also affiliated to - is campaigning for mass demonstrations of the trade union movement and anti-war movement to demand: 

Full care and compensation for Katrina victims. The federal (national) government should fully compensate all victims of this crisis for all losses. Free medical care for all those in need. 

Make sure all affected people receive a stable income to get back on their feet after this tragedy. All those who have lost their jobs, have been displaced, or in need from the affected areas should receive a living wage of $500 a week for up to three years. 

Immediate interest-free loans for workers, small businesses and small farmers whose livelihoods were destroyed in the hurricane. 

Initiate massive public works programmes to re-build and re-employ the US Gulf Coast. Immediately begin building decent, affordable public housing in the safe areas for all those in need due to the hurricane. 

Employ Katrina's jobless victims in public works programmes to rebuild the areas affected. All rebuilding and relief workers must receive a living wage with union rights and benefits. 

Ensure New Orleans' homes, workplaces, schools and streets are cleansed of the toxic contamination caused by flooded sewage and oil and chemical spills. 

Stop racial and class discrimination in relief, compensation, rebuilding, and policing. Relief money received through government and charity should not be put in the hands of big business politicians and bureaucrats. Instead, oversight committees elected from the affected communities, refugees, and relief workers should control the funding and administration of relief and rebuilding efforts. 

Don't bankrupt state and local budgets for relief. The federal government should hand over billions for the relief effort. Don't cut social service funding like healthcare and education to pay for relief and rebuilding efforts. 

Stop profiteering from tragedy! We need price controls on petrol and other products to protect consumers. Construction should be done for the public good, under democratic community control, not for the profits of a few corporations. 

Pay for rebuilding by ending the war in Iraq and taxing big business. This disaster is the direct result of the Bush administration taking funds out of levee-strengthening and other disaster prevention programmes to pay for the war in Iraq and tax cuts for the rich. 

Bring the troops home and redirect military resources to rebuilding. This disaster results from decades of corporate tax-cuts by the two major parties, and the resultant under-funding of infrastructure and inner cities. Make the rich and corporate America pay for reconstruction! 


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Hurricane Katrina 
A disaster made worse by capitalism 
IN THE immediate aftermath of Hurricane Katrina BRYAN KOULOURIS of Socialist Alternative (the Socialist Party's US counterpart) wrote the following article, which is an indictment of George Bush and the capitalist system he represents. 
HUNDREDS OF thousands are left homeless. Tens of thousands have been shipped to Texas as refugees. Buildings have collapsed. Entire communities have been reduced to rubble. The city of New Orleans, one of the centres of history and culture in the US, will likely be uninhabitable for months. The death toll from Katrina will probably be in the thousands. 

Some commentators say this was all unavoidable, but that is a lie. Even the Wall Street Journal printed an article entitled, "Evacuation was a model of efficiency - for those who had a car." The Deep South in the USA is riddled with extreme poverty nearly comparable to a 'third world' country, and New Orleans, despite all the flashy tourism, is no exception. 

For the over 100,000 poor residents of New Orleans without any access to cars, there were few options. You could cough up the few pennies you have to take a bus out of town, leaving your belongings, friends, and community behind in order to end up sleeping on the street in some other city. 

Or you could go to the Superdome, where over 23,000 people, in horrendous conditions, waited out the storm - only to eventually be shipped (after a dangerous evacuation) to the Astrodome in not-so-nearby Houston, Texas. 

Or, as thousands of people decided (or were forced to decide) you could wait it out on your roofs or in your attics, surrounded by destruction and floating dead bodies; you could only hope not to become one of those floating by. The working class and poor have the least stable housing, so it is disproportionately the houses of workers that were destroyed. 

In New Orleans (and other places throughout Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, etc.) desperate working class and poor people have resorted to 'looting' in order to get a hold of food, water, clothes, medicines, and other essentials. 

As this crisis hits, over 6,000 National Guardsmen from Louisiana and Mississippi - who are supposed to deal with domestic emergencies (although they're often used to break strikes) - are in Iraq helping the US ruling elite's attempts to occupy the country for the benefit of Halliburton, Texaco, Bechtel, and other US corporations. 

It is currently estimated that damage done to New Orleans alone will amount to tens of billions of dollars. This sounds like an unattainable sum. But the occupation of Iraq is costing $5.6 billion a month! 

Clearly, in the minds of the millionaires and billionaires who rule this country, war and profits come before relief for ordinary people faced with the most difficult of situations. Partially due to the huge amount of resources devoted to the 'war on terror', state and local governments have implemented vicious budget cuts that have caused, amongst other things, less money to be devoted to dealing with natural disasters. 

Profits over people 
RECENT YEARS have seen a marked increase in the number of hurricanes and other major natural disasters, some of which are probably the result of climate change. 

Of course, it would have been impossible to prevent all the damage done by Katrina, but much of the damage was preventable. 

New Orleans, surrounded on three sides by water (Mississippi River, Lake Pontchartrain, and the Gulf of Mexico) has a record of flooding during hurricanes. 

The city is built below sea level, and it is kept from constant flooding by a system of levees and pumps. The levees are set up to withstand some 'level three' hurricanes, but Katrina was a 'level four' hurricane. There is plenty of technology to create levees that withstand even 'level five' hurricanes. 

Also, the system of pumps that gets water out of the areas furthest below sea level runs on electricity, not generators. Of course, electricity has been knocked out not only in New Orleans, but throughout the Gulf Coast. The system could have been run on generators, but this would have cost money, money that big business politicians weren't willing to spend. 

In an interesting article in New Orleans City Business from 7 February, 2005, the US Army Corps stated that millions were needed for flood and hurricane protection in New Orleans, but "most projects will not be funded in the President's 2006 fiscal year budget." From 2001 to 2005, government spending on projects to protect New Orleans from massive flooding dropped drastically from $147 million to $82 million. 

The Army Corps of Engineers are responsible for maintaining flood defences and in June last year its project manager, Al Naomi, went before the East Jefferson levee authority to request $2 million for "urgent work" that Washington was not paying for. "The levees are sinking," he said. "Everything is sinking, and if we don't get the money fast enough to raise them, then we can't stay ahead of any settlement." 

Study after study has shown that working-class and poor areas, like the destitute Lower Ninth Ward of New Orleans are hit the worst by flooding due to the lack of investment in prevention. 

They claimed there was no money for prevention, but United Airlines was recently given billions in corporate bailouts from the federal government. Billions are spent on destruction, occupation, and oppression in Iraq. And they can't fund projects to minimize damage from inevitable disasters? Ridiculous. 

With big business controlling the relief strategy, the situation looks bad for the poor of the Gulf Coast. Even if the water level subsides, the dead bodies, rancid food and raw sewage would lead to a massive outbreak of sickness and disease for anybody who goes back to the region. Electricity and drinking water won't be ready for mass use either. 

Right now, Wall Street isn't worried about the dire situation faced by millions due to this disaster. They're worried about the bottom line: profits. Specifically, they're worried about oil. The Gulf Coast has many, if not most, of the oil refineries in the USA. With skyrocketing gas prices and a looming energy crisis in many areas, the big shots on Wall Street are worried about "investor confidence" and a "knock on effect" in the fall of stocks. 

They should be worried. The US economy and the world economy will be massively affected by these events. Working people have already been hit hard. Workers can't let big business put the burden of the economic problems on our backs; that's what they'll try to do by calling on us to "tighten our belts". 

Bush and his gang are worried. Anger is mounting against Bush on many issues, ranging the war in Iraq, the unstable income and his massive tax cuts for the rich. Already suffering his lowest ever approval ratings Bush fears that this disaster will further undermine him as the realisation sets in that his government cut the spending on flood defences and sent the National Guard to Iraq. Hurricane Katrina could be a turning point in which passive anger turns into active opposition. 

We need to fight back to make big business pay for a disaster that they helped to bring about and worsen. We should demand worker and community control of all relief resources. We should demand billions in spending on relief from and prevention of natural disasters. 

The capitalist system has its priorities: making stockholders happy by making more profits. To make profits, they want to keep our wages low. The big corporations don't want to be taxed to pay for our social programmes, so they pay off politicians to pass laws and budgets that benefit the super-rich. 

We need a party that represents working people, a party with a programme to end poverty, war, racism and environmental destruction. We need a workers' party with a socialist programme that will fight big business to the very end. 


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LAST SUNDAY, hip-hop superstar Kanye West stated on national television: "George Bush doesn't care about Black people." 

Damn right. Bush recently stated (as an attempt to show his compassion for victims): "Out of the rubbles of Trent Lott's house - he's lost his entire house - there's going to be a fantastic house. And I'm looking forward to sitting on the porch." 

Lott was the former Senate majority leader who was forced to resign due to his racist comments that glorified segregation in the South!


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## GFR (Sep 12, 2005)

Workers' unity against war and terrorism
Defend democratic rights
THE HORRIFIC terrorist attacks that have taken place in London and around the world have been condemned by the Socialist Party.

But we warned that Blair would use these attacks to intensify a climate of fear and crack down on civil liberties.

Stop the War Coalition Demonstration
24 September 2005
Assemble 1pm Central London 
Now, Blair's new plan, which includes secret, judge-only courts, will further attack civil liberties and whip up racial tension.

It confirms that the terrible actions of the suicide bombers have been used by Blair to attack working-class Muslims and all working people.

It will not lessen the chances of further suicide bombings and will create more tension.

These draconian plans will not just be used against suspected terrorists but will be used against the workers' movement, the anti-war movement and anyone who dares to dissent against Blair's foreign and domestic policy.

"Extreme views"
The government is preparing a definition of "unacceptable behaviour" to include anyone who expresses "extreme views that are in conflict with the UK's culture of tolerance".

In the USA, the introduction of the Patriot Act after 9/11 has been used against anti-war protesters and Green Party members.

The experience of the 'Troubles' in Ireland showed that a clampdown on civil liberties was used against the workers' movement.

The use of Diplock Courts and the use of internment without trial did nothing to stop terrorist activity.

If anything it intensified it and acted as a recruiting sergeant for terrorist organisations.

Blair claims the "rules of the game are changing" but his determination to tear up human rights legislation will not be a 'game' for the many innocents who will be caught up in this widespread attack on rights and liberties.

Blair's proposals represent a serious threat to anyone who opposes the New Labour government's support for US imperialism's invasion and occupation of Iraq and subjugation of the peoples of the Middle East.

Whilst the majority of people in Britain have no sympathy for those who advocate support for suicide bombings, many also understand that Blair's new measures will further worsen the situation, rather than bring a solution.

The trade union movement has not so far adequately responded to Blair's actions in the aftermath of the bombings.

The trade union movement needs to act decisively and effectively to protect and safeguard the interests of working-class people.

That can be best done uniting workers in building a campaign to ensure that the government is put under the maximum pressure to withdraw the troops from Iraq and withdraws its plans to erode civil liberties.

The trade union and anti-war leaders must give a clear lead in building a mass campaign to withdraw the troops, remove Blair and end Britain's role in the oppression of the peoples of Iraq and the Middle East.


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## BUA (Sep 12, 2005)

oookaaayyyyy, anyway do you think Bush should own a personal nuclear weapon?


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## bio-chem (Sep 12, 2005)

foreman your almost like prince with these threads against Bush. leave it alone already. and your absolutely right socialism is the answer, just look at France.


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## GFR (Sep 12, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> foreman your almost like prince with these threads against Bush. leave it alone already. and your absolutely right socialism is the answer, just look at France.


I am entitled to my view also   And if you read what I posted you would realize it goes far beyond George Bush......He is just a foot note in the many problems of America.
I will look to Norway or Sweden if I want a good example of successful socialism.


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## UK'er (Sep 12, 2005)

Socialism isnt too good! it can fuck up a country's economy!
buildingup


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## bio-chem (Sep 12, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I am entitled to my view also  And if you read what I posted you would realize it goes far beyond George Bush......He is just a foot note in the many problems of America.
> I will look to Norway or Sweden if I want a good example of successful socialism.


your right. you are entitled to your opionion, as am i. and my opinion is this thread is gay.  i mean c'mon, how often do you rail someone for posting their opinion? like 20 times a day? and your defense to my post is your entitled to your opinion  .  and your example of socialism in norway. a country with a tiny ass population and un-godly amounts of oil. we should follow that example for sure.


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## GFR (Sep 12, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> your right. you are entitled to your opionion, as am i. and my opinion is this thread is gay.  i mean c'mon, how often do you rail someone for posting their opinion? like 20 times a day? and your defense to my post is your entitled to your opinion  .  and your example of socialism in norway. a country with a tiny ass population and un-godly amounts of oil. we should follow that example for sure.



Dont forget Sweden, just 2 great country's miles ahead of America in every way.....except the exportation of weapons, pollution and the war machine.


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## GFR (Sep 12, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> your right. you are entitled to your opionion, as am i. and my opinion is this thread is gay.  i mean c'mon, how often do you rail someone for posting their opinion? like 20 times a day? and your defense to my post is your entitled to your opinion  .  and your example of socialism in norway. a country with a tiny ass population and un-godly amounts of oil. we should follow that example for sure.


Top 10 in standard of living
1. Norway
2. Sweden
3. Canada
4. Belgium
5. Australia
6. USA
7. Iceland
8. Netherlands
9. Japan
10. Finland


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## GFR (Sep 12, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> your right. you are entitled to your opionion, as am i. and my opinion is this thread is gay.  i mean c'mon, how often do you rail someone for posting their opinion? like 20 times a day? and your defense to my post is your entitled to your opinion  .  and your example of socialism in norway. a country with a tiny ass population and un-godly amounts of oil. we should follow that example for sure.


Top 10 Countries with Enviornmental Treaties

1. Norway
2. Netherlands
3. Sweden
4. Denmark
5. Switzerland
6. Canada
7. Austria
8. Bulgaria
9. Luxembourg
10. Czech Republic


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## GFR (Sep 12, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> your right. you are entitled to your opionion, as am i. and my opinion is this thread is gay.  i mean c'mon, how often do you rail someone for posting their opinion? like 20 times a day? and your defense to my post is your entitled to your opinion  .  and your example of socialism in norway. a country with a tiny ass population and un-godly amounts of oil. we should follow that example for sure.


Top 10 most educated

1. Norway
2. Finland
3. Australia
4. United Kingdom
5. New Zealand
6. Sweden
7. Netherlands
8. Belgium
9. Iceland
10. Denmark

11. France
14. USA....ouch...what a great country  
18. Canada


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## GFR (Sep 12, 2005)

Rank Country Life expectancy at birth (years)

1 Andorra 83.5 
2 Macau 82.03 
3 San Marino 81.53 
4 Singapore 81.53 
5 Hong Kong 81.39 
6 Japan 81.04 
7 Switzerland 80.31 
8 Sweden 80.3 
9 Australia 80.26 
10 Iceland 80.18


wonder where the greatest country in the world ranks


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## GFR (Sep 12, 2005)

Jehovahs Witnesses........who has the most

1. USA.....yikes  
2. Brazil
3. Mexico
4. Nigeria
5. Italy
6. Japan
7. Germany
8. Philippines
9. Russia
10. Argentina


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## DOMS (Sep 12, 2005)

bformanrule said:
			
		

> I am entitled to my view also


 Really?  Entitled to your opinions?  Aren't we all...

 How about some grape soda?


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## GFR (Sep 12, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> Really?  Entitled to your opinions?  Aren't we all...
> 
> How about some grape soda?


Another boring lazy comment used to replace the wit and intelligence you don't have.


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## busyLivin (Sep 12, 2005)

why don't you leave the US?  Seriously... not trying to be a dick, but you complain so much about this country, while saying how great others are.. Why not move?


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## GFR (Sep 12, 2005)

busyLivin said:
			
		

> why don't you leave the US?  Seriously... not trying to be a dick, but you complain so much about this country, while saying how great others are.. Why not move?


Your comment is interesting and thought provoking


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## GFR (Sep 12, 2005)

ISR backs school student walkout
ISR supports the call to school students to come out on 6 July 2005 in protest against the G8 and their neo-liberal policies.

Sarah Sachs-Eldridge
Nationally, International Socialist Resistance (ISR) took the first initiative in calling for school student strike action against the war in 2003. However, it would be arrogant for ISR to claim we organised the strikes. Our initial call, along with that of other parts of the Stop the War Coalition, was seized upon by countless students as the best means of making their voice heard against the tumult of pro-war propaganda.

On the day the war started, hundreds of thousands of young people took to the streets internationally in opposition to the imperialist invasion of Iraq. Since then school students have taken part in many other struggles such as the tens of thousands of French school students who struck against attacks on education.

ISR calls on every young person who is angered and horrified by the poverty and inequality that blights our world to join our international youth camp in Scotland - from which we will be taking part in all the anti-G8 demos (see column for details). You will be joining with young socialists from all round Europe as we discuss and debate the only realistic way to make poverty history.

But we understand that not everyone will be able to come for the whole five days. If you cannot, but want to demonstrate your opposition to Blair and Bush and the rest of the puppets of big business, organise a strike or protest in your school or college.

We are appealing to the trade unions and student unions to provide transport for school students who want to come to Edinburgh on 6 July. We also support those who wish to plan local protests.

If you would like help or advice about organising a strike or protest at your school please don't hesitate to contact ISR on 020 8558 7947 and we can put you in touch with local ISR members and assist you in organising action.

We can also help you try to get the support of teachers, and, if (as is sometimes the case) your head teacher opposes your action and tries to intimidate students, we can help you defend your right to protest.

ISR stands in solidarity with workers and students around the world and defends the right to take strike action by all. We welcome the fact that so many young people are prepared to take international solidarity action against war and poverty.


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International Socialist Resistance (ISR) will be part of the huge G8 demo on 2 July.

ISR is also co-organising an international youth camp from 1-6 July with the International Socialists, the Scottish affiliate to the Committee for Workers' International (CWI).

The CWI is an international socialist organisation with members in 40 countries around the world, including the International Socialists in Scotland and the Socialist Party in England and Wales.


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For more information:
ISR website: www.anticapitalism.org.uk, 020 8558 7947, PO Box 858, London E11 1YG.


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International Socialists : www.cwiscotland.org

email: cwiscotland@yahoo.co.uk


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## lnvanry (Sep 12, 2005)

Foreman I'll bet you won't like socialism as much when you loose 50% of your income to taxes


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## lnvanry (Sep 12, 2005)

Socialism promotes dependency on the gov't, (which is bad) laziness, and removes the privatization of industry...less money for corporate America...which brings me to another point FOREMAN

 Would you still hate Corporate Capitalistic America if you were part of it.  I am and I love it  Thank God for L 3 COMM/Esterline/Caterpillar


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## GFR (Sep 12, 2005)

lnvanry said:
			
		

> Foreman I'll bet you won't like socialism as much when you loose 50% of your income to taxes


I already do in America  actually when you figure in *ALL* taxes the average American pays about 45%. 
And they do not get free heath care.....unless they are in prison


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## GFR (Sep 12, 2005)

lnvanry said:
			
		

> Socialism promotes dependency on the gov't, (which is bad) laziness, and removes the privatization of industry...less money for corporate America...which brings me to another point FOREMAN
> 
> *Would you still hate Corporate Capitalistic America if you were part of it*.  I am and I love it  Thank God for L 3 COMM/Esterline/Caterpillar


I am part of it and I do think it's corrupt and evil


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## lnvanry (Sep 12, 2005)

45%  where did you get that source...the ACLU...JK

 the upper tax bracket pays 33%...If you want to include sale,liqour,gas,etc tax than the socialist take more than 50$....maybe 60-70


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## GFR (Sep 12, 2005)

lnvanry said:
			
		

> 45%  where did you get that source...the ACLU...JK
> 
> the upper tax bracket pays 33%...If you want to include sale,liqour,gas,etc tax than the socialist take more than 50$....maybe 60-70


No I did the math myself......try to study up on all the taxes we pay in this country....you will be amazed at how much you pay and how little you get 



http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/ go here and become a new man


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## bio-chem (Sep 13, 2005)

im hardly going to base my view on the best country based on most jehovas witnesses. that religion started in america if im not mistaken so it kind of makes sense that it has the most members here. and as a percentage of the population 

. big deal.  life expectancy? no offense but why would i want to live longer? if i loose 5 years at the end of my life its not going to bother me too much. you know the years where im in diapers and have to have a nurse wipe my ass because im too feeble. euthenasia please.  and education. im most concerned with mine, which is doing nicely by the way.  why not base things on GDP of a country or which country has the most freedoms? i think its telling the markers you use to base your opinion on. dont you? did you have a bad experience on a saturday morning with the jehovas witnesses?


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## GFR (Sep 13, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> im hardly going to base my view on the best country based on most jehovas witnesses. that religion started in america if im not mistaken so it kind of makes sense that it has the most members here. and as a percentage of the population
> 
> . big deal.  life expectancy? no offense but why would i want to live longer? if i loose 5 years at the end of my life its not going to bother me too much. you know the years where im in diapers and have to have a nurse wipe my ass because im too feeble. euthenasia please.  and education. im most concerned with mine, which is doing nicely by the way.  why not base things on GDP of a country or which country has the most freedoms? i think its telling the markers you use to base your opinion on. dont you? did you have a bad experience on a saturday morning with the jehovas witnesses?


The sad thing is those were only a few facts about country rankings.....there about a dozen more where America is out of the top ten or worse....

But I'm sure you will find more  excuses for the richest most powerful country in the world failing badly on most rankings that don't involve wealth and military power or weapon exportation.


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## bio-chem (Sep 13, 2005)

you said it buddy richest and most powerful. works for me. and i wasnt giving excusses. i was just saying what works in another country may not work here because the dynamics are completely different


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## GFR (Sep 13, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> *you said it buddy richest and most powerful. works for me.* and i wasnt giving excusses. i was just saying what works in another country may not work here because the dynamics are completely different


True *we dont need:* a low infant mortality rate,  a long life expectancy, low taxes, high education,to give much economic aid, low murder rate with firearms, low divorce rate, low rape stats.....and *America dosent*...ouch, what a great country


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## bio-chem (Sep 13, 2005)

whoa hold your horses there sparky. look at our infant mortality rates, or life expectancy, and economic aid? no one gives more not even close. check your shit before you go rambling off like an idiot. never mind we expect that from you by now.


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## GFR (Sep 13, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> whoa hold your horses there sparky. look at our infant mortality rates, or life expectancy, and economic aid? no one gives more not even close. check your shit before you go rambling off like an idiot. never mind we expect that from you by now.


 Definition: The net official development assistance (ODA) from Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) nations to developing countries and multilateral organizations. ODA is defined as financial assistance that is concessional in character, has the main objective to promote economic development and welfare of the less developed countries (LDCs), and contains a grant element of at least 25%. The entry does not cover other official flows (OOF) or private flows. Per capita figures expressed per 1 population.


	Country 	Description 	Amount
1.	Luxembourg	$313.71 per person	
2.	Norway	$304.80 per person	
3.	Denmark	$300.05 per person	
4.	Netherlands	$243.79 per person	
5.	Sweden	$188.85 per person	
6.	Switzerland	$146.87 per person	
7.	Belgium	$103.43 per person	
8.	France	$89.02 per person	
9.	Finland	$72.55 per person	
10.	Ireland	$70.47 per person	
11.	United Kingdom	$69.48 per person	
12.	Germany	$67.93 per person	
13.	Austria	$63.53 per person	
14.	Japan	$62.00 per person	
15.	Canada	$60.96 per person	
16.	Australia	$44.49 per person	
17.	Spain	$32.96 per person	
18.	Portugal	$25.64 per person	
19.	New Zealand	$24.70 per person	
*20.	United States	$23.33 per person* 
21.	Italy	$17.21 per person	
22.	Lesotho	$0 per person	
23.	United Arab Emirates	$0 per person	
24.	Saudi Arabia	$0 per person	
25.	Korea, South	$0 per person


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## GFR (Sep 13, 2005)

The Socialist Party has a long and proud record of struggling to defend working-class people. We are involved in hundreds of campaigns.

We contested seats across England and Wales in the 2005 general election. Read our manifesto.

We are part of the Stop the War Coalition and campaign against the war and occupation of Iraq.

Two decades ago, we were called the Militant Tendency and campaigned in the Labour Party for socialist policies. We led Liverpool City council's battle for decent housing, jobs and services, and later defeated Tory Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's poll tax which forced her to resign. 

We now campaign for a new mass party that can draw together workers, environmental and community campaigners, anti-capitalist, anti-war and other protesters to represent and fight for the interests of ordinary people. You can join us by clicking here.

Between 1983 and 1992 our three socialist MPs - Dave Nellist, Terry Fields and Pat Wall - lived on the average wage of the workers they were representing.

They never forgot their working class roots, or the problems of those workers that elected them - unlike many political and trade union leaders who live on inflated salaries.

We are the only socialist organisation in England and Wales to have several elected councillors - two in Coventry and two in Lewisham in London.

We support workers in industrial disputes, fight against tuition fees, privatisation, for better pay, to stop council house sell-offs and for free education. We campaign to stop the destruction and pollution of our planet and its environment. We fight for a socialist world free of war and terror.


----------



## GFR (Sep 14, 2005)

Standing for the millions not the millionaires
Election manifesto 2005
No cuts! No privatisation???

It doesn???t have to be like this??? Britain is a rich country

New Labour has plenty of money to spend on war and helping its rich friends:

*Since Tony Blair came to power the wealth of the top 1% has doubled from £355 billion to £797 billion *??? more than the government spends in five years on education, the NHS and housing combined!


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## bio-chem (Sep 14, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Definition: The net official development assistance (ODA) from Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) nations to developing countries and multilateral organizations. ODA is defined as financial assistance that is concessional in character, has the main objective to promote economic development and welfare of the less developed countries (LDCs), and contains a grant element of at least 25%. The entry does not cover other official flows (OOF) or private flows. Per capita figures expressed per 1 population.
> 
> 
> Country     Description     Amount
> ...


 now do it by total regardless of population.


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## bio-chem (Sep 14, 2005)

socialism wow, next stop communism, or better yet facism


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## GFR (Sep 14, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> now do it by total regardless of population.


Do you remember the story in the Bible about the widow giving a penny or two to the church and what Jesus said??? 

I think you missed that lesson........its very clear you will try to twist any fact to suit your beliefs...Jesus would be ashamed of you


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## GFR (Sep 14, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> socialism wow, next stop communism, or better yet facism *sp*.


Do you even know what Fascism is???? If you did you would know that America is only a step away from it.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 14, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Do you remember the story in the Bible about the widow giving a penny or two to the church and what Jesus said???
> 
> I think you missed that lesson........its very clear you will try to twist any fact to suit your beliefs...Jesus would be ashamed of you


 of shut up. thats a load of crap comming from you. im not twisting anything. i just asked for you to post total amounts regardless of population. the fact that your not willing to shows your twisting things. your such a boner why not  do something constructive with your life instead of spending hours on end here at IM posting countless threads on why you hate your own country.  your are now officially 2nd only to john h on people who are natural born idiots that  waste everyone elses time here on IM.  i dont care about the fact that we disagree but to listen to you paint anyone that disagrees with you as a racist, bigot, or homophobic neo-conservative got old about 9000 posts ago. your like the fucking uni-bomber with your warped sense of the world. damn this forum was so much better before you got here. people could actually have decent discussions.


----------



## GFR (Sep 14, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> of shut up. thats a load of crap comming from you *It came from the Bible not me.* I'm not twisting anything. i just asked for you to post total amounts regardless of population. the fact that your not willing to shows your twisting things.* No it shows how once again you  are  trying to  make things look different then the truth....pathetic* your such a boner why not  do something constructive with your life instead of spending hours on end here at IM posting countless threads on why you hate your own country.*That is some nice talk coming from a Christian*  your are now officially 2nd only to john h on people who are natural born idiots that  waste everyone elses time here on IM.  i dont care about the fact that we disagree but to listen to you paint anyone that disagrees with you as a racist, bigot, or homophobic neo-conservative *I never did that, you are talking in circles again* got old about 9000 posts ago. your like the fucking uni-bomber with your warped sense of the world. damn this forum was so much better before you got here. people could actually have decent discussions.


 
You are a sad human being, I feel very sorry for you and wish that some day you learn to love instead of hating everything.


----------



## lnvanry (Sep 14, 2005)

Foreman socialism will not work in the US..for one obvious reason...A peson in the U.S. needs to provide for themselves.  We do not really help the poor.  We stand on their back.  we always have.  our country was built on the poor (or slaves) back.  irish, chinese, italian, russian, black...anything but a White Anglo-Saxson Protestant.  WASPy culture has, still is, and always will run this country.  Yes it may  be a bit wrong, but thats life.  If you cannot beat them join'em...or leave...or sit here and fight a futile fight.


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## GFR (Sep 14, 2005)

lnvanry said:
			
		

> Foreman socialism will not work in the US..for one obvious reason...A peson in the U.S. needs to provide for themselves.  We do not really help the poor.  We stand on their back.  we always have.  our country was built on the poor (or slaves) back.  irish, chinese, italian, russian, black...anything but a White Anglo-Saxson Protestant.  WASPy culture has, still is, and always will run this country.  Yes it may  be a bit wrong, but thats life.  If you cannot beat them join'em...or leave...or sit here and fight a futile fight.


Great post, I agree 100%..


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## lnvanry (Sep 14, 2005)

foreman is it reallt "Bush's" rotten capitalist society or "our" rotten society....i am sure his five years in office isn't the seed of our greed.

 the seed of greed came w/ us after WWII...oh wait actually the seed came from our settlers w/ the british.  The biritish started the WASP


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## lnvanry (Sep 14, 2005)

Now we are the child country who has out done his or her parent.


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## GFR (Sep 14, 2005)

lnvanry said:
			
		

> foreman is it reallt "Bush's" rotten capitalist society or "our" rotten society....i am sure his five years in office isn't the seed of our greed.
> 
> the seed of greed came w/ us after WWII...oh wait actually the seed came from our settlers w/ the british.  The biritish started the WASP


Bush is responsable for 1 or 2% of it, I blame most of the leaders of this country from day one.


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## lnvanry (Sep 14, 2005)

well put


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## GFR (Sep 14, 2005)

This thread really showed the true colors of some of the people here.....very sad that we have  so many racists on this site who think its ok to make racist bigoted remarks and whats even more sad is the people who defend it.
Its funny but every one who defended this uneducated and evil racism was a Christian Republican....calling blatant racist remarks facts is beyond contempt.

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=53451


----------



## GFR (Sep 21, 2005)

Socialist Party Manifesto

Standing for the millions not the millionaires
Election manifesto 2005
No cuts! No privatisation???

It doesn???t have to be like this??? Britain is a rich country

New Labour has plenty of money to spend on war and helping its rich friends:

Since Tony Blair came to power the wealth of the top 1% has doubled from £355 billion to £797 billion ??? more than the government spends in five years on education, the NHS and housing combined!

    *
      Say no to the fat cats
    *
      For a workers??? MP on a worker???s wage

Vote for a socialist alternative
The Socialist Party is fighting for:
Public services

    *

      No to the fat cats. Renationalise the privatised utilities under democratic working-class control. 

Pensions

    *

      An immediate 50% increase in the pension as a step towards a living pension for all pensioners. Annual increases to be linked to average earnings.
    *

      For the right to draw a pension from 55 for those who want to. The right for a part-work part-pension option for those who choose it.
    *

      Pensioners, having contributed to society all their lives, to have free housing, heating, telephone and local travel. 

Childcare and education

    *

      Free, good-quality education from the nursery to university. A living grant for all students. Abolish tuition fees now!
    *

      For a massive increase in the number of free, publicly-owned nurseries, with fully qualified, decently paid staff. Free childcare for every parent who wants it.
    *

      For well-funded, genuinely comprehensive, co-educational, neighbourhood schools.
    *

      For free adult education. 

Health

    *

      Abolish prescription charges.
    *

      No more privatisation
    *

      Reverse all privatisation in the NHS. Rebuild a public National Health Service ??? free at the point of use and under democratic control.
    *

      Bring the pharmaceutical industry into public ownership under democratic working-class control.
    *

      No to the fat cats. Renationalise the privatised utilities under democratic working-class control. 

Housing

    *

      No to privatisation!
    *

      High quality council housing ??? decent, affordable, secure and accountable.
    *

      Do the repairs, renovate our homes ??? clear the £19 billion backlog with no strings attached.
    *

      A tenants??? vote on any changes ??? honest debate and equal funding for tenants??? organisations and campaigns.
    *

      The right of rent officers to force landlords to charge a fair rent.
    *

      A massive building programme of public housing to meet need. Democratic public ownership of the giant construction corporations.
    *

      Democratic public ownership of the banks and finance companies. Cancel all local authority debts and give mortgage holders low interest loans. 

Transport

    *

      Major investment into a cheap, accessible, integrated public transport system that meets the needs of the people and the environment.

Jobs and work

    *

      A range of policies to achieve full employment, including the introduction of a maximum 35-hour week without loss of pay, a massive increase in public spending in healthcare, housing, education, childcare, leisure and community facilities.
    *

      For the unions to take immediate action to implement their current minimum wage demands, as a step towards a legal minimum of £8 an hour (the European Decency Threshold). No exemptions. For an annual increase in the minimum wage, linked to average earnings.
    *

      For the right to decent benefits, training or a job without compulsion.
    *

      Employment protection rights for all from day one of employment.
    *

      Scrap the anti-trade union laws. Trade unions to be democratically controlled by their members. Full-time officials should be regularly elected and receive the wage of an average worker.
    *

      Abolish big-business secrets. Open the books. Let the workers know where all the massive profits, tax rebates and subsidies have gone. No transfers of jobs or production without the agreement of the workers.
    *

      All factories and plant threatened with closure to be brought into public ownership and used for socially-useful production, with compensation for shareholders only on the basis of proven need.

The environment and food

    *

      A socialist plan for energy production, designed to guarantee cheap and safe energy for all whilst protecting the environment.
    *

      Such a plan should be worked out by representatives from workers in the energy sector, scientists, community and environmental organisations.
    *

      The aim would be to replace fossil fuels and nuclear power with massive investment into renewable energy ??? such as wind, solar and geothermal (extracting heat from the earth???s interior) sources.
    *

      Agribusiness, including the pharmaceutical companies, to be taken into public ownership.
    *

      For a food processing and retail industry under workers??? control to ensure that standards are set by consumers, farm workers and small farmers.

Rights

    *

      Defend the right to asylum.
    *

      End police harassment. For the abolition of the Criminal Justice Act. Scrap the so-called 'Terrorism' Act. No curtailment of jury trials.
    *

      Fight to end discrimination on the grounds of race, sex, sexuality, disability, age, and all other forms of prejudice.

International and the military

    *

      No to the occupation of Iraq! Bring the troops home now.
    *

      Abolish third world debt. For the neo-colonial countries to refuse to pay.
    *

      Abolish the IMF and the World Bank.
    *

      Scrap all nuclear weapons. For an immediate and drastic cut in military spending worldwide. A global campaign against chemical and biological weapons.
    *

      Total opposition to Nato. No to a European army.

Fight for socialist change

    *

      For a socialist confederation of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland.
    *

      For solidarity of the European working class. Oppose the bosses' European Union. No to the euro. For a socialist Europe.
    *

      Take into public ownership the top 150 companies, banks and building societies that dominate the economy, under democratic working-class control and management. Compensation to be paid on the basis of proven need.
    *

      Campaign to form a new mass party of the working class.
    *

      An end to the rule of profit. For a socialist plan of production. For a socialist society and economy run to meet the needs of all whilst protecting our environment. 

Vote for a socialist alternative

In Britain every year 200,000 babies - one third of all those born - are born into poverty. In total 9.7 million people live below the poverty line. Millions more struggle to get by, increasingly having to take two or more jobs just to make ends meet....(continued on next web page)

Click here to continue...


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## Rich46yo (Sep 21, 2005)

Was it tens of thousand killed By Bush's Hurricane Katrina? Or was it just a few hundred? I bet you could find a real good deal on never used body bags on the gulf coast............  ...........Uncle Rich....


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## GymJamo (Sep 21, 2005)

.........

^^ thats what i want to add to this


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## busyLivin (Sep 21, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> This thread really showed the true colors of some of the people here.....very sad that we have  so many racists on this site who think its ok to make racist bigoted remarks and whats even more sad is the people who defend it.
> Its funny but every one who defended this uneducated and evil racism was a Christian Republican....calling blatant racist remarks facts is beyond contempt.
> 
> http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=53451



I never defended anything.  I started out in that thread saying "i may have missed a thread, but I don't think he's a racist."  After the examples you provided, I conceded that he did appear to be a racist.

I did not agree with the manner you went about calling him out on it.  You challenged me to find a scenario where you made fun of a group of people... but you tacked on "by choice"..,. implying that your incessant ridicule of Republicans and/or Religious people was OK.

This is hypocritical.  I have never & will never defend racism. You, however, always take the opportunity to make fun of religous people, call us slaves, etc. & you have the audacity to call me a racist.

Please, Foreman.. explain how you can grandstand about being the anti-racist, yet ridicule people of faith or a different political view.  Racism is ugly... it attacks people for simply being who they are.  I see no difference in what you are doing.

What makes your case even more unique is that on several occasions,you have said that you were formerly a devout Christian.  It disgusts me that you claim to have lost your faith & are now seemingly intent on destroying other people's. I feel sorry for your lack of faith, but why such hatred now?  Shouldn't there be at least some level of understanding?

I do agree with what you said, though.  I was acting in an immature manner in that thread.  I grew angry & as I often do, let my temper get the best of me.  I threw insults & anything I could, which only angered me more.  For that, I do apologize.  I don't want another argument here, and I'm intent on not getting angry... just refrain from calling me a defender of racism: this is simply not true.


----------



## devildog88 (Sep 21, 2005)

The problem isn't just Bush; the entire system is designed to benefit a few and keep the rest of us living from paycheck to paycheck. Capitalism is a system responsible for war, poverty and environmental destruction. We need a socialist society based on workers' needs, not corporate greed. 

Yes,yes, this system woked well in the Soviet Republics!


----------



## devildog88 (Sep 21, 2005)

Come on Foreman really?  If this system worked like it is penned out on paper then all of the world leaders would be pursuing it with vigor!  Capital systems promote competition and that is why they flourish.  People who can't, or choose not to compete fall behind and get less.  They are the first ones to begin to cry foul!  The world is not equal, it is fair, but never ever equal.  It parrallels the saying.........."its not whether you win or loose it is how you play the game"..................  Guess who made that saying up?  A LOOSER!!!!


----------



## brogers (Sep 21, 2005)

Socialism hahahaha.  In one thread he calls anyone who likes the capitalist system slaves to the rich/powerful.  Yet he'd love us all to be slaves to the government.  Which is exactly what socialism is.

Socialism blows.   You like socialism so much?  Go to Norway/Denmark/Sweden, wherever, and go give a disgusting amount of your paycheck to the government.  In America, everyone has far more freedoms and choices than in other countries, I for one, think I can choose the best way to spend my money, not politicians.

Condemning the political system in America, but in the same breath wanting to turn over control of everyone's lifes to the government (RUN BY POLITICIANS) ahahahahahah.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 21, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> This thread really showed the true colors of some of the people here.....very sad that we have  so many racists on this site who think its ok to make racist bigoted remarks and whats even more sad is the people who defend it.
> Its funny but every one who defended this uneducated and evil racism was a Christian Republican....calling blatant racist remarks facts is beyond contempt.
> 
> http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=53451




I stuck up for the statement, "Blacks don't care about themselves." or whatever.  Doesn't sound racist to me, not anymore than saying , "whites shouldn't use black slang."  I don't think either is a racist remark.  I think people have different takes on what is racist and I am more lenient than most.  And I am an agnostic who is in the middle political-wise, but I am a cracker too so I guess I am less affected by racism being in the more dominant race (at least for now).


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 21, 2005)

Rich46yo said:
			
		

> Was it tens of thousand killed By Bush's Hurricane Katrina? Or was it just a few hundred? I bet you could find a real good deal on never used body bags on the gulf coast............  ...........Uncle Rich....




How many beers and bags of ice will fit into a body bag?


----------



## GFR (Sep 21, 2005)

busyLivin said:
			
		

> *I never defended anything.*  I started out in that thread saying "i may have missed a thread, but I don't think he's a racist."  After the examples you provided, I conceded that he did appear to be a racist.
> 
> I did not agree with the manner you went about calling him out on it.  You challenged me to find a scenario where you made fun of a group of people... but you tacked on "by choice"..,. implying that your incessant ridicule of Republicans and/or Religious people was OK.
> 
> ...


----------



## GFR (Sep 21, 2005)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> *I stuck up for the statement, "Blacks don't care about themselves." or whatever.  Doesn't sound racist to me,* not anymore than saying , "whites shouldn't use black slang."  I don't think either is a racist remark.  I think people have different takes on what is racist and I am more lenient than most.  And I am an agnostic who is in the middle political-wise, but I am a cracker too so I guess I am less affected by racism being in the more dominant race (at least for now).


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 21, 2005)

Roll your eyes all you want, wea re all allowed to have our own opinions, just as you are.  While it is most definitely a negative statement, it is not racist.  Do you think that Kanye statement about white people and slang is racist?


----------



## maniclion (Sep 21, 2005)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Roll your eyes all you want, wea re all allowed to have our own opinions, just as you are. While it is most definitely a negative statement, it is not racist. Do you think that Kanye statement about white people and slang is racist?


No, but it was ignorant.  In my mind ignorance and racism run neck and neck.


----------



## GFR (Sep 21, 2005)

devildog88 said:
			
		

> The problem isn't just Bush; the entire system is designed to benefit a few and keep the rest of us living from paycheck to paycheck. Capitalism is a system responsible for war, poverty and environmental destruction. We need a socialist society based on workers' needs, not corporate greed.
> 
> *Yes,yes, this system woked well in the Soviet Republics*!


That was a dictatorship not Communism.....just like Cuba...a dictatorship.


----------



## GFR (Sep 21, 2005)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> *Roll your eyes all you want*, wea re all allowed to have our own opinions, just as you are.  While it is most definitely a negative statement, it is not racist.  Do you think that Kanye statement about white people and slang is racist? *I would bet the farm that hates white men*


 nigga please


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 21, 2005)

So you think it is a racist statement, that kanye is racist, or both?


----------



## GFR (Sep 21, 2005)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> So you think it is a racist statement, that kanye is racist, or both?


I think Kanye is a racist...or just a frigging retard


----------



## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> whoa hold your horses there sparky.* look at our infant mortality rates,* or life expectancy, *and economic aid? no one gives more not even close.* check your shit before you go rambling off like an idiot. never mind we expect that from you by now.


 Rankings > Infant mortality rate  (All Ascending)

Rank 	Country 	Value / 	Unit
1. 	Singapore 	2.28 	deaths/1,000 live births
2. 	Sweden 	2.77 	deaths/1,000 live births
3. 	Hong Kong 	2.97 	deaths/1,000 live births
4. 	Japan 	3.28 	deaths/1,000 live births
5. 	Iceland 	3.31 	deaths/1,000 live births
6. 	Finland 	3.59 	deaths/1,000 live births
7. 	Norway 	3.73 	deaths/1,000 live births
8. 	Malta 	3.94 	deaths/1,000 live births
9. 	Czech Republic 	3.97 	deaths/1,000 live births
10. 	Andorra 	4.05 	deaths/1,000 live births
11. 	Germany 	4.20 	deaths/1,000 live births
12. 	France 	4.31 	deaths/1,000 live births
13. 	Macau 	4.39 	deaths/1,000 live births
14. 	Switzerland 	4.43 	deaths/1,000 live births
15. 	Spain 	4.48 	deaths/1,000 live births
16. 	Slovenia 	4.50 	deaths/1,000 live births
17. 	Denmark 	4.63 	deaths/1,000 live births
18. 	Austria 	4.68 	deaths/1,000 live births
19. 	Australia 	4.76 	deaths/1,000 live births
  	Belgium 	4.76 	deaths/1,000 live births
21. 	Liechtenstein 	4.77 	deaths/1,000 live births
22. 	Canada 	4.82 	deaths/1,000 live births
23. 	Luxembourg 	4.88 	deaths/1,000 live births
24. 	Netherlands 	5.11 	deaths/1,000 live births
25. 	Portugal 	5.13 	deaths/1,000 live births
26. 	United Kingdom 	5.22 	deaths/1,000 live births
27. 	Ireland 	5.50 	deaths/1,000 live births
28. 	Monaco 	5.53 	deaths/1,000 live births
29. 	Greece 	5.63 	deaths/1,000 live births
30. 	San Marino 	5.85 	deaths/1,000 live births
31. 	New Zealand 	5.96 	deaths/1,000 live births
32. 	Aruba 	6.02 	deaths/1,000 live births
33. 	Italy 	6.07 	deaths/1,000 live births
34. 	Cuba 	6.45 	deaths/1,000 live births
35. 	Taiwan 	6.52 	deaths/1,000 live births
*36. 	United States 	6.63 	deaths/1,000 live births*
we  are ranked 36 in the world.......and you think thats good....oh boy!....once again you tell me I need to check my facts and once again you are 100% wrong.......please read some books before you ramble off at the mouth

Map & Graph: Economy: *Economic aid - Donor (per $ GDP)*
View this stat: Totals  Per capita  	Show map full screen

 Definition: The net official development assistance (ODA) from Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) nations to developing countries and multilateral organizations. ODA is defined as financial assistance that is concessional in character, has the main objective to promote economic development and welfare of the less developed countries (LDCs), and contains a grant element of at least 25%. The entry does not cover other official flows (OOF) or private flows. Per $ GDP figures expressed per $100 of Gross Domestic Product.


	Country 	Description 	Amount
1.	Denmark	$0.93 per $100	
2.	Norway	$0.76 per $100	
3.	Netherlands	$0.68 per $100	
4.	Luxembourg	$0.53 per $100	
5.	Belgium	$0.33 per $100	
6.	France	$0.31 per $100	
7.	Finland	$0.25 per $100	
8.	Germany	$0.23 per $100	
9.	Ireland	$0.22 per $100	
10.	Austria	$0.20 per $100	
11.	Japan	$0.18 per $100	
12.	Australia	$0.14 per $100	
13.	Portugal	$0.14 per $100	
14.	Canada	$0.12 per $100	
15.	New Zealand	$0.10 per $100	
16.	Italy	$0.06 per $100	
17.	Lesotho	$0 per $100	
18.	Saudi Arabia	$0 per $100	
19.	Korea, South	$0 per $100	
 Despite the fact that *the United States only gives 0.06 percent of its GDP* in aid to developing countries one survey found 40% of US citizens believe the country should cut foreign aid. This is probably because the average estimate of the Federal Budget going to foreign aid was 24%, overestimating the actual figure at least 20-fold.
*
Not even in the top 20.........America is so rich and gives so little*


----------



## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

Map & Graph: Health:* Life expectancy at birth* - Total population
Scroll down for more information 	Show map full screen

 Definition: The average number of years to be lived by a group of people born in the same year, if mortality at each age remains constant in the future. Life expectancy at birth is also a measure of overall quality of life in a country and summarizes the mortality at all ages. It can also be thought of as indicating the potential return on investment in human capital and is necessary for the calculation of various actuarial measures.


	Country 	Description 	Amount
1.	Andorra	83.49 years	
2.	Macau	81.87 years	
3.	San Marino	81.43 years	
4.	Japan	80.93 years	
5.	Singapore	80.42 years	
6.	Australia	80.13 years	
7.	Guernsey	80.04 years	
8.	Switzerland	79.99 years	
9.	Sweden	79.97 years	
10.	Hong Kong	79.93 years	
11.	Canada	79.83 years	
12.	Iceland	79.8 years	
13.	Cayman Islands	79.67 years	
14.	Italy	79.4 years	
15.	Gibraltar	79.38 years	
16.	France	79.28 years	
17.	Monaco	79.27 years	
18.	Liechtenstein	79.25 years	
19.	Spain	79.23 years	
20.	Norway	79.09 years	
21.	Israel	79.02 years	
22.	Jersey	78.93 years	
23.	Faroe Islands	78.9 years	
24.	Greece	78.89 years	
25.	Aruba	78.83 years	

26.	Netherlands	78.74 years	
27.	Martinique	78.72 years	
28.	Virgin Islands	78.59 years	
29.	Malta	78.43 years	
30.	Germany	78.42 years	
31.	Montserrat	78.36 years	
32.	New Zealand	78.32 years	
33.	Belgium	78.29 years	
34.	Guam	78.27 years	
35.	Austria	78.17 years	
36.	United Kingdom	78.16 years	
37.	Saint Pierre and Miquelon	78.11 years	
38.	Man, Isle of	77.98 years	
39.	Finland	77.92 years	
40.	Jordan	77.88 years	
41.	Luxembourg	77.66 years	
42.	Guadeloupe	77.53 years	
43.	Bermuda	77.41 years	
44.	Saint Helena	77.38 years	
45.	Ireland	77.35 years	
46.	Cyprus	77.27 years	
47.	Puerto Rico	77.26 years	
*48.	United States	77.14 years	*
49.	Denmark	77.1 years	
50.	Taiwan	76.87 years	

51.	Cuba	76.8 years	
52.	Anguilla	76.7 years	
53.	French Guiana	76.69 years	
54.	Kuwait	76.65 years	
55.	Costa Rica	76.43 years	
56.	Portugal	76.35 years	
57.	Chile	76.35 years	
58.	Northern Mariana Islands	76.16 years	
59.	Libya	76.07 years	
60.	British Virgin Islands	76.06 years	
61.	Uruguay	75.87 years	
62.	Jamaica	75.85 years	
63.	American Samoa	75.75 years	
64.	Slovenia	75.51 years	
65.	Argentina	75.48 years	
66.	French Polynesia	75.45 years	
67.	Netherlands Antilles	75.38 years	
68.	Korea, South	75.36 years	
69.	Czech Republic	75.18 years	
70.	United Arab Emirates	74.75 years	
71.	Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of	74.49 years	
72.	Slovakia	74.43 years	
73.	Tunisia	74.4 years	
74.	Paraguay	74.4 years	
75.	Croatia	74.37 years


Once again* you are 0 for 3*.....you really need facts if you are going to try and debate.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 23, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Rankings > Infant mortality rate


 First off, I'm not trying to rile you, so try not to take it that way.

 Try this: look at infant mortality in the US by race.  Find blacks and Hispanics, now compare the infant mortaility of black Americans to blacks in Africa and compare Hispanics in the USA to Hispanics in South and Central America.


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> First off, I'm not trying to rile you, so try not to take it that way.
> 
> Try this: look at infant mortality in the US by race.  Find blacks and Hispanics, now compare the infant mortaility of black Americans to blacks in Africa and compare Hispanics in the USA to Hispanics in South and Central America.


I have seen some stats broken down by race in America.....for example white men live to around 75 ( gust a gueess could be 74-78??) or so while black men is only 65......so I see your point.
But my discussion with bio   is about countries not races so while that could be an interesting discussion, it will only give him another escape route in his circle talking.


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## DOMS (Sep 23, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I have seen some stats broken down by race in America.....for example white men live to around 75 ( gust a gueess could be 74-78??) or so while black men is only 65......so I see your point.
> But my discussion with bio  is about countries not races so while that could be an interesting discussion, it will only give him another escape route in his circle talking.


 If blacks in America are living to around 65, that's pretty damn good.  Considering that they are genetically predisposed to cicle cell anemia.  

 Yeah for modern medicine!

 I was brining up race a clue, not a cause.  But as I think of it, I think that culture does play a role, at least in regards to hispanics (Mexicans mostly).  I used to live in Arizona and I would here constantly about hispanic babies being found in dumpsters.  Sometimes alive, sometimes dead.  Autopsies often indicated that the infant suffered death due to dehydration (it can reach over 150 degrees) or asphyxiation.


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## DOMS (Sep 23, 2005)

Also foremanruls, in regards to your list, quite a few of those countries have a fraction of the population of the USA. Andorra has a population of 70,549.  Hell, my home city of Burbank, CA has a population of 105,000! And the USA is 48 out of how many hundreds of countries around the world?


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> Also foremanruls, in regards to your list, quite a few of those countries have a fraction of the population of the USA. Andorra has a population of 70,549.  Hell, my home city of Burbank, CA has a population of 105,000! And *the USA is 48 out of how many hundreds of countries around the world?*


I believe that the United nations has 189 members...Countries.
I have never found an exact number.....189 are recognized but it may be as high as 240 or so.......


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## Rich46yo (Sep 23, 2005)

Maybe if minorities in America didn't smoke so much, drink so much, hit the pipe so much, shoot and stick knives in each other so much, cared about the pre-natal care of their babies, raised their kids in more two parent households so they didn't grow up into little gangsters, and otherwise didn't allow themselves to evolve into endless cycles of self destruction............. Maybe if they didn't do all of this out life expectancies would go up.

                               Gee...yathink?. Or is preaching self-responsability racist?...........Uncle Rich.......


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

How Many Countries Are in the World?
Your Guide, Matt Rosenberg	From Matt Rosenberg,
Your Guide to Geography.
FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now!

May 3 2004
By Most Accounts, 193 is the Correct Answer
A very frequent geographical question is "How many countries are in the world?." Different numbers pop up when one inquires or reads about the number of countries in the world. Each source you use often yields a different answer.

United Nations

There are 191 members of the United Nations. Unfortunately, the number 191 is too often used to represent the number of countries in the world. Although this number represents almost all of the countries in the world, there is still one country (the Vatican City) that is independent and has chosen not to become a member of the U.N.

U.S. Department of State

The United States' State Department recognizes 192 independent countries around the world. Their list of 192 countries reflects the political agenda of the United States of America and its allies. Missing from the State Department's list is one entity that may or may not be considered a country, depending on who you talk to.

The One Outsider

Taiwan meets most of the requirements of independent country or state status. However, due to political reasons, it fails to be recognized by the United States and much of the rest of the world.

Taiwan was actually a member of the United Nations (and even the Security Council) until 1971, when mainland China replaced Taiwan in the organization. Taiwan continues to press for full recognition by other countries, to become "part of the club" and fully recognized worldwide but China claims that Taiwan is simply a province of China.

Thus...

Your Guide considers there to be 193 countries, which is probably the best current answer to the question, "How many countries are in the world?" unless Taiwan is officially absorbed into China at some point, in which case the answer would be 192.

However...

Recognize that there are dozens of territories and colonies that are sometimes erroneously called "countries" but don't count at all - they're governed by other countries. Places commonly confused as being countries include Puerto Rico, Bermuda, Greenland, Western Sahara, and even the components of the United Kingdom (such as Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England - sorry folks, they're not countries, states, or nation-states).

http://geography.about.com/cs/countries/a/numbercountries.htm


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## DOMS (Sep 23, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I believe that the United nations has 189 members...Countries.
> I have never found an exact number.....189 are recognized but it may be as high as 240 or so.......


 Thanks for info (and on the previous post on how many nations), but you skipped over my point: how many of those countries above the USA on the list have a fraction of the population?  Plus, how many of those countries above the USA are homogeneous?  Japan has very little non-Japanese, for example (though they are an excellent people and country).


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

Rich46yo said:
			
		

> Maybe if minorities in America didn't smoke so much, drink so much, hit the pipe so much, shoot and stick knives in each other so much, cared about the pre-natal care of their babies, raised their kids in more two parent households so they didn't grow up into little gangsters, and otherwise didn't allow themselves to evolve into endless cycles of self destruction............. Maybe if they didn't do all of this out life expectancies would go up.
> 
> Gee...yathink?. Or is preaching self-responsability racist?...........Uncle Rich.......


Love to see the stats on smoking, single parent households, alcoholism, murder, pre-natal care of baby's, by race......please post these facts you are using to support your statement so we all can learn from them.


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

1. Andorra 83.49 years
2. Macau 81.87 years
3. San Marino 81.43 years
4. Japan 80.93 years
5. Singapore 80.42 years
*6. Australia 80.13 years....large population and a good mix of races*
7. Guernsey 80.04 years
8. Switzerland 79.99 years
9. Sweden 79.97 years
10. Hong Kong 79.93 years
*11. Canada 79.83 years.......Large population and many races*
12. Iceland 79.8 years
13. Cayman Islands 79.67 years
14. Italy 79.4 years
15. Gibraltar 79.38 years
16. France 79.28 years
17. Monaco 79.27 years
18. Liechtenstein 79.25 years
19. Spain 79.23 years
20. Norway 79.09 years
21. Israel 79.02 years
22. Jersey 78.93 years
23. Faroe Islands 78.9 years
24. Greece 78.89 years
25. Aruba 78.83 years

26. Netherlands 78.74 years
27. Martinique 78.72 years
28. Virgin Islands 78.59 years
29. Malta 78.43 years
30. Germany 78.42 years
31. Montserrat 78.36 years
32. New Zealand 78.32 years
33. Belgium 78.29 years
34. Guam 78.27 years
35. Austria 78.17 years
36. United Kingdom 78.16 years
37. Saint Pierre and Miquelon 78.11 years
38. Man, Isle of 77.98 years
39. Finland 77.92 years
40. Jordan 77.88 years
41. Luxembourg 77.66 years
42. Guadeloupe 77.53 years
43. Bermuda 77.41 years
44. Saint Helena 77.38 years
45. Ireland 77.35 years
46. Cyprus 77.27 years
47. Puerto Rico 77.26 years
48. United States 77.14 years 

*I don't know much about these countries but I do know of 2 that have large populations and quite a few of foreigners/races mixed into their culture...... *


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## DOMS (Sep 23, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Love to see the stats on smoking, single parent households, alcoholism, murder, pre-natal care of baby's, by race......please post these facts you are using to support your statement so we all can learn from them.


 Actually foremansrules, those stats are real and they're out there if you look for them.  If you want, I can track them down for you.

 Even the black community has acknowleged this.  Remember the huge battle between the black community and the makers of the maker of Colt45 (the beverage)?  Way too many young black men were getting drunk on it, way higher than the national average.  Plus the black community hated the fact that a alcohol producer specifically targeted blacks.


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## busyLivin (Sep 23, 2005)

Foreman's new avatar:


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## DOMS (Sep 23, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> *6. Australia 80.13 years....large population and a good mix of races*
> *11. Canada 79.83 years.......Large population and many races*
> 
> *I don't know much about these countries but I do know of 2 that have large populations and quite a few of foreigners/races mixed into their culture...... *


 These two countries have a large land mass, but the poplulated areas in them are small.  Most of the Canadians live in the eastern half of the country (with some on the western coast), virtally no one lives in the Northern or Yukon territories.  Most of the population of Australia lives on the coasts, the center of the country is either desert or harsh scrubland.  The population of the USA is spread over all of the land mass.

 Even then, the populations still aren't even close:

 Australia  20,090,437
 canda  32,805,041
 USA  295,734,134


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## Rich46yo (Sep 23, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Love to see the stats on smoking, single parent households, alcoholism, murder, pre-natal care of baby's, by race......please post these facts you are using to support your statement so we all can learn from them.



                             I dont need to post it home boy. Ive been living it for two fucking decades................Uncle Rich..............


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## DOMS (Sep 23, 2005)

Come to think of it, try comparing the USA to other countries of a similar size.  The funny thing is that nothing comes to mind.


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## DOMS (Sep 23, 2005)

Rich46yo said:
			
		

> I dont need to post it home boy. Ive been living it for two fucking decades................Uncle Rich..............


  What the fuck kind of answer is that?


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## Rich46yo (Sep 23, 2005)

Another factor is that low income minorities simply dont have the access to high quality health care more affluent Americans do. That is simply fact as well...................Uncle Rich


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## Rich46yo (Sep 23, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> What the fuck kind of answer is that?



                            As in Ive been working in minority communities for a few decades while youv been in affluent whiteboyland. You needed me to explain that?...........  ..............Uncle Rich..........


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## brogers (Sep 23, 2005)

Why don't you move to Sweden or Norway then, since socialism is so great? (hahaha)  Why stay here and bitch and moan constantly?


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## DOMS (Sep 23, 2005)

brogers said:
			
		

> Why don't you move to Sweden or Norway then, since socialism is so great? (hahaha) Why stay here and bitch and moan constantly?


 Because in the USA, it's a Constitutionally guaranteed right.


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## DOMS (Sep 23, 2005)

Plus, if you're a Democrat, it's a way of life!


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

Rich46yo said:
			
		

> I dont need to post it home boy. Ive been living it for two fucking decades................Uncle Rich..............


You dont post any real information because you are too lazy or just making it up as you go....

Uncle Tom


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

brogers said:
			
		

> Why don't you move to Sweden or Norway then, since socialism is so great? (hahaha)  Why stay here and bitch and moan constantly?


I stay here just to piss off propaganda fed slaves like you.


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

Rich46yo said:
			
		

> Another factor is that low income minorities simply dont have the access to high quality health care more affluent Americans do. That is simply fact as well...................Uncle Rich


Sounds like a good answer but you are wrong again....In America there more whites that are poor than blacks so if anything the poverty factor should effect a greater number of whites than blacks.....also more white people on welfare.

Just a few facts for....Uncle Rich


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> Come to think of it, try comparing the USA to other countries of a similar size.  The funny thing is that nothing comes to mind.


You are looking for excuses for America.........I just posted the facts if they bother you then go ahead and find a way to justify them.
America fails miserably in so many areas its just pathetic.


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> Actually foremansrules, those stats are real and they're out there if you look for them.  If you want, I can track them down for you.
> 
> Even the black community has acknowleged this.  Remember the huge battle between the black community and the makers of the maker of Colt45 (the beverage)?  Way too many young black men were getting drunk on it, way higher than the national average.  Plus the black community hated the fact that a alcohol producer specifically targeted blacks.




	According to FBI statistics, over 18,000 people were murdered in 1997. The 1997 figure was down 7 percent from 1996, and 26 percent from 1993.
bullet	According to data about 15,289 of the estimated 18,209 murders in 1997: 77 percent of the victims were males and 88 percent were persons 18 years of age or older. Forty-four percent were ages 20 through 34. The percentage of whites murdered was 48 percent, blacks 49 percent, and other races accounted for the remainder.
bullet	In 1997, according to supplemental data reported for 17,272 offenders, *90 percent of the offenders for whom sex, age, and race were reported were male, *and 87 percent were persons 18 of age and older. Seventy percent were ages 17-34. Of offenders for whom race was known, *53 percent were black, 45 percent were white,* and the remainder were persons of other races.

According to this reference blacks are slightly higher than whites....not enough to prove anything........however it clearly shows that *Men* are the killers in this country..


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## DOMS (Sep 23, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> You are looking for excuses for America.........I just posted the facts if they bother you then go ahead and find a way to justify them.
> America fails miserably in so many areas its just pathetic.


That's funny!  I did the same thing with blacks and you nearly threw up a lung.

And sure the USA has a higher crime and such when compared to countries that could barely be called a state, or even a city, in the US.


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## DOMS (Sep 23, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> According to FBI statistics, over 18,000 people were murdered in 1997. The 1997 figure was down 7 percent from 1996, and 26 percent from 1993.
> bullet    According to data about 15,289 of the estimated 18,209 murders in 1997: 77 percent of the victims were males and 88 percent were persons 18 years of age or older. Forty-four percent were ages 20 through 34. The percentage of whites murdered was 48 percent, blacks 49 percent, and other races accounted for the remainder.
> bullet    In 1997, according to supplemental data reported for 17,272 offenders, *90 percent of the offenders for whom sex, age, and race were reported were male, *and 87 percent were persons 18 of age and older. Seventy percent were ages 17-34. Of offenders for whom race was known, *53 percent were black, 45 percent were white,* and the remainder were persons of other races.
> 
> According to this reference blacks are slightly higher than whites....not enough to prove anything........however it clearly shows that *Men* are the killers in this country..


Men are definantly the killers around the world.  I wont argue that.

*"53 percent were black, 45 percent were white"*


The problem is that *whites make up over 75%* of the population and *blacks make up about 12%*.  

Do you see the problem?


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> That's funny!  I did the same thing with blacks and you nearly threw up a lung.
> 
> And sure the USA has a higher crime and such when compared to countries that could barely be called a state, or even a city, in the US.


To target a race is very different than targeting a country.....shame on you.


I agree with you on several things about how things are in America according to race.....Hell I was a Juvenile counselor so trust me I had plenty of reason to think certain racial groups looked to be more inclined to crime . Plus My first Degree was in Criminal justice back in 1990.....and I was a young republican back then. So I was made aware of all kinds of statistics on crime and Race...ect


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> *"53 percent were black, 45 percent were white"*
> 
> 
> The problem is that *whites make up over 75%* of the population and *blacks make up about 12%*.
> ...


Good point, I wasnt sure if that stastic covered the % of each race as far as population......It looks like it didnt......so Black men ( in America) 18-24 get the #1 coveted spot of murder.....


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## brogers (Sep 23, 2005)

you stay in America because you know it's the best country in the world, without question.  You're just taking part in the popular "in" thing for liberals to do these days, bash America since the republicans are currently in charge of the branches of government.  Preaching socialism, what a fucking joke.  Wake up to reality pal, incentives for unemployment, unproductivity, and having as many babies as possible doesn't work, and will never work.


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

brogers said:
			
		

> you stay in America because you know it's the best country in the world, without question.  You're just taking part in the popular "in" thing for liberals to do these days, bash America since the republicans are currently in charge of the branches of government.  Preaching socialism, what a fucking joke.  Wake up to reality pal, incentives for unemployment, unproductivity, and having as many babies as possible doesn't work, and will never work.


You really cant be that stupid can you?????

Ok I will give you some reasons I live in America

1. I was born here.....in any other country I am a foreigner....and worse than that an American foreigner.

2. All my family lives here.....If I go then I will only see them once or twice a year.

3.My baby lives here....if I go to another Country I will only see her a few times a year.......and miss out on most of her life....

4. All my friends live in America.

5. It is very difficult to get citizenship or work permanently in many of the other country's

just a few off the top of my head......


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## DOMS (Sep 23, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> To target a race is very different than targeting a country.....shame on you.


 A fact is a fact.


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> A fact is a fact.


What blacks do in America hardly defines a race, at best it defines a culture....


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## DOMS (Sep 23, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> What blacks do in America hardly defines a race, at best it defines a culture....


 No, but it does define blacks in America.


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

Poland 1980
The rise and fall of Solidarnosc
ON 31 August this year, anti-working class capitalist leaders from across Europe were celebrating the recognition 25 years ago of the mass trade union movement called Solidarnosc (Solidarity). Some present-day Solidarnosc members protested at the celebrations which stressed the Catholic Church's role in toppling Stalinism.
Capitalist speakers tried to ignore the reality that widespread discontent amongst the working class at Poland's Stalinist regime found expression in a free independent trade union movement that had the opportunity to establish a real workers' democracy.
Alistair Tice examines Solidarnosc's meteoric rise, its contradictions, political divisions and missed opportunities for revolution, before it was suppressed under martial law.

BY THE late 1970s, Poland's economy was in decline. In 1979, national income fell by 2% according to official figures, an unprecedented admission in a Stalinist state. The ruling 'Communist' Party bureaucrats had sought big price rises in 1970 and 1976. These provoked near uprisings, forcing withdrawal of the price rises and an increase in subsidies, which only exacerbated the economic crisis. On 1 July 1980 the government increased meat prices again, leading to scattered protest strikes for higher pay.

But in the Baltic coast port of Gdansk (where hundreds of workers were shot dead in the 1970 uprising) management moved to nip protests in the bud by attempting to remove potential 'troublemakers' including long-time workers' activist Anna Walentynowicz who was sacked.

This had the opposite of the intended effect. 15,000 workers in the Lenin shipyards went on strike. All the workers' demands were conceded, but a mass meeting rejected the strike committee's recommendation to go back to work and voted to stay out with other workers until their demands were met as well.

Within a few days, a general strike paralysed all the Baltic Coast towns. An inter-factory strike committee was established with delegates from over 500 workplaces.

One incident shows that the workers were now the real power in society: a woman from the fish-canning plant approached the strike committee appealing that 'the people must have food'. So workers at another plant temporarily returned to work to produce the 120,000 cans needed so fish in the canning plants could be distributed to strikers, rather than being allowed to go bad.
Regime's concessions

The regime wanted to crush the movement. They moved troops outside Gdansk. But workers sent delegations to fraternise - the troops became unreliable. Army leader, General Jaruzelski, at that time advised the government not to try a military solution.

So the government was forced to concede even more to the strike's wider demands, including the release of all political prisoners, reduction of press censorship, publication of the workers' demands, the right to strike and form free independent trade unions, as well as better health services, maternity leave and pensions.

From this victory in Gdansk and the Baltic Coast, strikes spread throughout Poland - all industrial centres including the capital Warsaw were affected. Silesian coalminers forced the government to agree that the 'Baltic Agreement' won in Gdansk should apply to workers throughout Poland.

Within a few months, ten million workers (out of 13 million employees) had left the 'official' state-run unions to set up their own independent unions under the umbrella of 'Solidarnosc'. Peasants and students set up their own committees. Even 40,000 police set up an independent union!

In an opinion poll at the time, 83% of the population said they supported the strikers. In effect, there existed a situation which marxists call 'dual power' - real power lay in the hands of the workers who were challenging the right of the old, official state power to rule.

The regime was forced, by its weakness, to make huge concessions. It hoped that in time it could buy off some of the workers' leaders and exhaust the movement, in order to strike back later.
Political demand

CLEARLY AT this stage, the movement was not anti-socialist as the Stalinist regime and the Western politicians tried to make out. The workers' economic demands quickly passed over into political demands against the regime's repressive nature: for free trade unions, against press censorship and for freeing of political prisoners.

The demands were also against the privileges of the 'Communist' Party elite, a few of whom were scapegoated by the regime. The former head of Polish state TV was tried for embezzlement.

He had amassed a country villa with a sauna and swimming pool, a lavishly adorned bed costing £50,000, seven cars, two planes, a helicopter, two yachts, a 42-bedroomed country estate, 32 full-time domestic staff, and use of a private island in the Mediterranean and a safari lodge in Kenya!

Workers didn't want the restoration of capitalism but to democratise the 'socialist' system. As one worker-delegate said: "We speak on behalf of the 40,000 workers of Lenin steelworks... Today our union has 7 million members. We are the majority of the working people of Poland who believe that socialism is a system of social justice and that it is possible to restore the highest values: truth, justice, recognition for honest work and respect for man.

"Our activity does not impair the foundations of socialism in our country. We have only condemned those who have distorted its basic tenets."

In effect, workers were striving for a political revolution, that is the overthrow of the corrupt one-party totalitarian ruling elite, the Stalinist bureaucracy, whilst maintaining and democratising the nationalised, planned economy through workers' control and management.

But at this time, there did not exist in Poland, a conscious organised Trotskyist force, that could give expression to these instinctive ideas. (Trotsky, the co-leader with Lenin of the 1917 October socialist revolution in Russia, subsequently fought against Stalin's dictatorship and called for a political revolution to overthrow the ruling bureaucracy.)

Instead, some of the Solidarnosc leaders fell under the influence of other ideas and social forces, in particular of the Catholic Church and dissident intellectuals. The Catholic Church in Poland was seen as a symbol against centuries of national oppression and was the only legal semi-opposition tolerated in Stalinist dictatorships. Portraits of the Pope hung outside the shipyards alongside those of Karl Marx!

The dissidents held sway because of their past opposition to the regime and the repression they'd suffered for it. Each urged restraint and compromise on the Solidarnosc leaders.

They advised workers "not to go too far" and "keep within necessary bounds". In particular, they feared provoking a Russian invasion, such as occurred against workers' uprisings in Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968.

Lech Walesa, the leader who came to personify Solidarnosc, was especially susceptible, claiming to be "non-political". Consequently Solidarnosc's leaders accepted a 'compromise' solution. They had won huge concessions but accepted "the leading role of the Communist Party".

In other words, Solidarnosc would not interfere in politics or challenge the bureaucracy's right to rule. And they signed a 90-day truce (no strikes) in spring 1981.

This gave the regime (General Jaruzelski was now head of the Party and government as well as the army), the breathing space it wanted, which it used to sabotage the economy through redundancies, cut the meat ration and raise bread prices, which began to demoralise the workers' movement.

Even the Solidarnosc leadership, in their report to their September 1981 congress, recognised: "To our moderation, they respond with still greater aggressiveness."
Inspiring battle

DESPITE THEIR own leaders, Solidarnosc could not help but be political. Poland's Stalinist dictatorship could not tolerate free trade unions let alone elements of workers' power. To pursue economic and democratic demands they were forced to challenge the bureaucracy's privileges and repression.

For 18 months the workers could have taken power, peacefully without violence or civil war, such was Solidarnosc's strength and the regime's weakness. The international effect would have made it almost impossible for Russia to intervene, especially as the Polish army would most probably have fought with the workers against foreign invasion.

Instead, the continual appeals to moderation undermined workers' confidence that all their efforts could achieve real lasting change.

On 13 December 1981 Jaruzelski struck. Using the military and secret police to do the dirty work, a military coup was carried out. Solidarnosc was banned, leaders arrested, strikes declared illegal, all concessions withdrawn and martial law declared.

Workers did resist - shipyards, mines, the Ursus tractor factory, car plants all went on strike - but their isolated actions fizzled out. The movement became disorientated and demoralised, the defeat greater for having been so near to taking power.

Western democracies, the banks and politicians applauded the coup. They welcomed the restoration of stability and a chance to get their debts paid back!

Solidarnosc's inspiring and heroic struggle shows that the first movement of workers was towards political revolution, as happened later in East Germany and Czechoslovakia in 1989, but without a conscious leadership this was not carried through.

The coup, martial law and repression, demoralisation and disillusionment at defeat, the continued collapse of the Polish economy and the seeming capitalist boom in the west in the 1980s, all combined to undermine, even reverse, the Polish workers' socialist consciousness.

So much so that in 1988, on a visit to Poland, Margaret Thatcher was cheered by Gdansk workers as was US President George Bush senior the following year!

Solidarnosc leader Lech Walesa even declared, "We will build America here in Eastern Europe." It's a historical irony that the Solidarnosc leaders went over to support the restoration of capitalism at exactly the same time as the ruling Stalinist bureaucracy in Poland, Eastern Europe and Russia, for their own reasons, reached the same conclusion.

Jaruzelski, under cover of military dictatorship, began this process. And Lech Walesa, due to his authority as Solidarnosc leader, was elected President of Poland in the early 1990s, and used increasingly authoritarian powers to push through privatisations.

Instead of America being built in Poland, US firms were invited to buy Poland up! Walesa became so discredited through his association with capitalist free-market policies and authoritarian rule that he received only 3% of the vote when he stood again for Poland's presidency in 2000.

Solidarnosc's political party was wiped out in the 2001 parliamentary elections, and today the Solidarnosc trade union exists as a shadow of its former self trying to resist the effects of the neo-liberal policies it ended up promoting!

Nonetheless Polish workers can draw inspiration from the Solidarnosc movement of 25 years ago, as they struggle today to rebuild fighting trade unions and create a new workers' party in the future, capable of overthrowing capitalism and replacing it with a democratic socialist society.
Economic growth slows

BEFORE WORLD War Two, Poland was a semi-feudal dictatorship dominated by foreign capital.

Under Nazi occupation, Poland lost a fifth of its population and industry was destroyed. With the Red Army defeat of the Nazis, a Stalinist state came to power at the end of the war. With a nationalised and planned economy, industrial production increased 13-fold.

From 1951 to 1972 national income grew by 7% a year on average, with big improvements in living standards, health and education. But economic growth was already slowing by the 1970s because the bureaucracy could not meet people's needs through a system of 'diktats' and crude targets. This resulted in shortages, queues and price rises, which triggered uprisings in 1970 and 1976.

The regime's attempts to kick-start the stagnating economy through market mechanisms and western loans only made things worse. By the 1970s, price subsidies were consuming a third of the state budget. The attempt to cut these subsidies again in July 1980 led to the movement from which Solidarnosc developed.
What were the Stalinist states?

MARXISTS USE the term "Stalinist" to describe the Soviet Union/Russian state after it degenerated under Joseph Stalin's leadership from a relatively democratic workers' state into a one-party totalitarian regime.

The regimes in Eastern Europe (including Poland) that developed after World War Two shared the same features from their inception.

These Stalinist states were characterised by nationalised and planned economies (replacing landlordism and capitalism) ruled over by a privileged elite of bureaucratic rulers who still called themselves 'communist' but ran military-police dictatorships where workers had no democratic rights. These regimes were caricatures of genuine socialism, which requires workers' democratic participation at every level of society.

Despite the economic advantages of a planned economy, the Stalinist bureaucracy's 'commandism' and mismanagement led to crises which eventually resulted in the overthrow of these repressive regimes in 1989, unfortunately opening up the way for the restoration of capitalism.
Poland 2005
Capitalist restoration - a catastrophe for workers
VISITORS TO Poland may see the market reforms of the nineties as a success, reports Paul Newbery from Poland.
Gone are the queues for basic necessities outside empty shops. Nowadays the stores are overflowing with goods and modern shopping centres around Warsaw don't differ from those in the west either in quality or price.

However, behind the impressive shop displays of Poland's capital, the reality is quite different. There is one small problem that admirers of Poland's market reforms conveniently forget - the vast majority of the population can't afford to buy the goods in the fancy shops.

The restoration of capitalism in Poland, ushered in by the Solidarity-sponsored Balcerowicz Plan at the beginning of the nineties, was catastrophic for Polish workers.

In the first year, 1990, GDP fell by over 10%, twice what Balcerowicz expected. Industrial output fell by over 25%. In 1991 GDP fell a further 7.5%. Only at the end of the 1990s did GDP reached the level of 1989, ie before the introduction of the market. Hardly a success story! Even today, GDP per head in Poland is only one-fifth of that in Britain.

For workers the economic collapse caused by capitalist restoration meant a driving down of real wages and the appearance of mass unemployment - a phenomenon previously unknown in Poland. Today unemployment is around 20%, whilst workers often earn as little as 150 euros a month.

Mass privatisations accompanied the restoration of capitalism, causing massive job losses. Most enterprises were sold off at a fraction of their value either to friends and family of the political elite or to businessmen in return for generous bribes.

In state-owned enterprises workers enjoyed cheap, subsidised holidays and children's camps, as well as cheap housing provided by the company. Privatisation meant the liquidation of such benefits and often the selling off of the flats to private landlords. This year the government introduced a bill 'liberalising' private-sector rents, which will make thousands more working-class families homeless.

The introduction of capitalism also meant the destruction of the welfare state. The health service has been decimated due to chronic underfunding of state hospitals and the chaos caused by the introduction of the internal market. Benefits and pensions have been slashed. However, only a minority of the unemployed are entitled to benefits anyway.

Employment in mining has been reduced from 450,000 to 142,000. In Walbrzych, a mining town in the south of Poland, unemployment runs at over 50%. In conditions reminiscent of the 19th rather than the 21st century, poverty forces unemployed miners and youth to risk their lives working illegal mining shafts, tens of metres underground using makeshift props to secure the tunnels. Every few months a tunnel collapses, killing or seriously injuring workers.

"At least in the Polish People's Republic we didn't starve. We had work and a roof over our heads" is an opinion that you often hear when talking to workers.

Last year, Edward Gierek, leader of the Polish United Workers Party (the communist party) in the 1970s, topped a poll to find the greatest Polish statesman, beating Solidarity's legendary leader, Lech Walesa. In another poll, most Poles felt life was better in the seventies.

However, the solution for Polish workers is not a return to the bureaucratic mismanagement of the economy that existed in the Polish People's Republic.

Instead, what is needed is a planned, nationalised economy under democratic workers' control and management. Then the economy can be organised to meet working people's needs instead of making profits for the small business elite and the international corporations.


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

*Workers' unity against war and terrorism
Defend democratic rights
*
THE HORRIFIC terrorist attacks that have taken place in London and around the world have been condemned by the Socialist Party.

But we warned that *Blair would use these attacks to intensify a climate of fear and crack down on civil liberties.*..just like GWB
Stop the War Coalition Demonstration
24 September 2005
Assemble 1pm Central London

Now, Blair's new plan, which includes secret, judge-only courts, will further attack civil liberties and whip up racial tension.

It confirms that the terrible actions of the suicide bombers have been used by Blair to attack working-class Muslims and all working people.

It will not lessen the chances of further suicide bombings and will create more tension.

These draconian plans will not just be used against suspected terrorists but will be used against the workers' movement, the anti-war movement and anyone who dares to dissent against Blair's foreign and domestic policy.
"Extreme views"

The government is preparing a definition of "unacceptable behaviour" to include anyone who expresses "extreme views that are in conflict with the UK's culture of tolerance".

*In the USA, the introduction of the Patriot Act after 9/11 has been used against anti-war protesters and Green Party members.
*
The experience of the 'Troubles' in Ireland showed that a clampdown on civil liberties was used against the workers' movement.

The use of Diplock Courts and the use of internment without trial did nothing to stop terrorist activity.

If anything it intensified it and acted as a recruiting sergeant for terrorist organisations.

Blair claims the "rules of the game are changing" but his determination to tear up human rights legislation will not be a 'game' for the many innocents who will be caught up in this widespread attack on rights and liberties.

Blair's proposals represent a serious threat to anyone who opposes the New Labour government's support for US imperialism's invasion and occupation of Iraq and subjugation of the peoples of the Middle East.

Whilst the majority of people in Britain have no sympathy for those who advocate support for suicide bombings, many also understand that Blair's new measures will further worsen the situation, rather than bring a solution.

The trade union movement has not so far adequately responded to Blair's actions in the aftermath of the bombings.

The trade union movement needs to act decisively and effectively to protect and safeguard the interests of working-class people.

That can be best done uniting workers in building a campaign to ensure that the government is put under the maximum pressure to withdraw the troops from Iraq and withdraws its plans to erode civil liberties.

The trade union and anti-war leaders must give a clear lead in building a mass campaign to withdraw the troops, remove Blair and end Britain's role in the oppression of the peoples of Iraq and the Middle East.


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## bio-chem (Sep 23, 2005)

sounds like a very limited point of view and an all around load of crap to me.


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## BigDyl (Sep 23, 2005)

Foreman = intelligent guy with more free time than myself.    

However, I agree w/ him.


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> sounds like a very limited point of view and an all around load of crap to me.


Its over your head, I'll try to write it in a simpler way next time so you can grasp it.
But with you as always the real problem is your fear. It will not let you learn or see anything but the propaganda and hate you were taught to believe as a child.


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## Rich46yo (Sep 23, 2005)

Does anyone here actually read all of Foreskins posts?


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

Rich46yo said:
			
		

> Does anyone here actually read all of Foreskins posts?


Its clear you don't read anything that isn't approved by your party leader....

Hell why read about something different than you believe??? You might get tricked or brainwashed......plus it takes so much time and effort to read one page.....your better off just making up crap and saying its a fact.


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## bio-chem (Sep 23, 2005)

who was brainwashed?  and it might be a good idea to cut your posts down to smaller points so that people will be more interested. when you post crap like the last, there are just too many things to say in response and i really dont want to take the time.


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## bio-chem (Sep 23, 2005)

foreman i think you need a better grasp of economics.


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## min0 lee (Sep 23, 2005)

Foreman and Rich46..............this will be interesting.


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> who was brainwashed?  and it might be a good idea to cut your posts down to smaller points so that people will be more interested. when you post crap like the last, there are just too many things to say in response and i really dont want to take the time.


If you would read a book for once and stopped using cliff notes then maybe it wouldn't bother you to read one whole page


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> foreman i think you need a better grasp of economics.


Its clear that my grasp is bigger than your grasp.


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## min0 lee (Sep 23, 2005)

Oh brother....my grasp is bigger than your grasp....all this freaking grasp envy....how big is your grasp..can you suck your own grasp.


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> Oh brother....my grasp is bigger than your grasp....all this freaking grasp envy....*how big is your grasp*..can you suck your own grasp.


You know the answer to that question baby


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## Nick+ (Sep 23, 2005)

Listen I've lived in 'communist' countries  (as China supposedly was) back in  1978-79, and I've seen the corruption it breeds.  The  'carders' (or elite) Chinese in Communist China  were the same people who would have been the 'factory owners' or big bosses under a 'capitalist' system.

The problem though, may now be ,(now that socialism has been cleared out of the way........{?} )  That rampant exploitation rules the day....   By that , I mean unfettered 'capitalism'. I do hope not.

One bright outlook I must say.


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## Rich46yo (Sep 23, 2005)

I wasnt relating to foreskins ignorant posts. I was referring to his 500 line motherfuckers that would take an afternoon to read.........Uncle Rich.....


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

Nick+ said:
			
		

> Listen I've lived in 'communist' countries  (as China supposedly was) back in  1978-79, and I've seen the corruption it breeds.  The  'carders' (or elite) Chinese in Communist China  were the same people who would have been the 'factory owners' or big bosses under a 'capitalist' system.
> 
> The problem though, may now be ,(now that socialism has been cleared out of the way........{?} )  That rampant exploitation rules the day....   By that , I mean unfettered 'capitalism'. I do hope not.
> 
> One bright outlook I must say.


*Good post Nick*


*THE SOCIALIST PARTY strives to establish a radical democracy that places people's lives under their own control -- a non-racist, classless, feminist, socialist society in which people cooperate at work, at home, and in the community.*

     Socialism is not mere government ownership, a welfare state, or a repressive bureaucracy. Socialism is a new social and economic order in which workers and consumers control production and community residents control their neighborhoods, homes, and schools. The production of society is used for the benefit of all humanity, not for the private profit of a few. Socialism produces a constantly renewed future by not plundering the resources of the earth.
     Under capitalist and "Communist" states, people have little control over fundamental areas of their lives. The capitalist system forces workers to sell their abilities and skills to the few who own the workplaces, profit from these workers' labor, and use the government to maintain their privileged position. Under "Communist" states, decisions are made by Communist Party officials, the bureaucracy and the military. The inevitable product of each system is a class society with gross inequality of privileges, a draining of the productive wealth and goods of the society into military purposes, environmental pollution, and war in which workers are compelled to fight other workers.
     People across the world need to cast off the systems which oppress them, and build a new world fit for all humanity. Democratic revolutions are needed to dissolve the power now exercised by the few who control great wealth and the government. By revolution we mean a radical and fundamental change in the structure and quality of economic, political, and personal relations. The building of socialism requires widespread understanding and participation, and will not be achieved by an elite working "on behalf of" the people.
     Radical democracy is the cornerstone not only of our socialism, but also of our strategy. Here are the main features of each: 

Socialist Society

Freedom & Equality

Democratic socialism is a political and economic system with freedom and equality for all, so that people may develop to their fullest potential in harmony with others. The Socialist Party is committed to full freedom of speech, assembly, press, and religion, and to a multi-party system. We are dedicated to the abolition of male supremacy and class society, and to the elimination of all forms of oppression, including those based on race, national origin, age, sexual preferences, and disabling conditions.

Production For Use, Not For Profit

In a socialist system the people own and control the means of production and distribution through democratically controlled public agencies, cooperatives, or other collective groups. The primary goal of economic activity is to provide the necessities of life, including food, shelter, health care, education, child care, cultural opportunities, and social services.
     These social services include care for the chronically ill, persons with mental disabilities, the infirm and the aging. Planning takes place at the community, regional, and national levels, and is determined democratically with the input of workers, consumers, and the public to be served.

Full Employment

Under welfare capitalism, a reserve pool of people is kept undereducated, under-skilled and unemployed, largely along racial and gender lines, to exert pressure on those who are employed and on organized labor. The employed pay for this knife that capitalism holds to their throats by being taxed to fund welfare programs to maintain the unemployed and their children. In this way the working class is divided against itself; those with jobs and those without are separated by resentment and fear. In socialism, full employment is realized for everyone who wants to work.

Worker & Community Control

Democracy in daily life is the core of our socialism. Public ownership becomes a fraud if decisions are made by distant bureaucrats or authoritarian managers. In socialist society power resides in worker-managed and cooperative enterprises. Community-based cooperatives help provide the flexibility and innovation required in a dynamic socialist economy. Workers have the right to form unions freely, and to strike and engage in other forms of job actions. Worker and community control make it possible to combine life at work, home and in the community into a meaningful whole for adults and children. Girls and boys are encouraged to grow up able to choose freely the shape of their lives and work without gender and racial stereotyping. Children are provided with the care, goods and services, and support that they need, and are protected from abuse.

Ecological Harmony

A socialist society carefully plans its way of life and technology to be a harmonious part of our natural environment. This planning takes place on regional, national, and international levels and covers the production of energy, the use of scarce resources, land-use planning, the prevention of pollution and the preservation of wildlife. The cleanup of the contaminated environment and the creation of a nuclear-free world are among the first tasks of a socialist society.

Socialist Strategy

Socialist Feminism

Socialist feminism confronts the common root of sexism, racism, and classism: the determination of a life of oppression or privilege based on accidents of birth or circumstances. Socialist feminism is an inclusive way of creating social change. We value synthesis and cooperation rather than conflict and competition. We work against the exploitation of women who live with lower wages, inferior working conditions and subordination in the home and in politics. Socialists struggle for the full freedom of women and men to control their own bodies and determine their own sexual orientation. Women's independent organizations and caucuses are essential to full liberation, both before and after the transformation to socialism. Women will define their own liberation.

Liberation of Oppressed Groups

Bigotry and discrimination help the ruling class divide, exploit, and abuse workers here and in the Third World. The Socialist Party works to eliminate prejudice and discrimination in all its forms. We recognize the right of self-defense in the face of attacks; we also support non-violent direct action in combating oppression.
     People of color, lesbians and gays, and other oppressed groups need independent organization to fight oppression. Racism will not be eliminated merely by eliminating capitalism.

International Solidarity & Peace

People around the world have more in common with each other than with their rulers. We condemn war, preparation for war, and the militaristic culture because they play havoc with people's lives and divert resources from constructive social projects. Militarism also concentrates even greater power in the hands of the few, the powerful and the violent. We align with no nation, but only with working people throughout the world.

Internal Democracy

Socialism and democracy are one and indivisible. The Socialist Party is democratic, with its structure and practices visible and accessible to all members. We reject dogma and promote internal debate. The Socialist Party is a "multi-tendency" organization. We orient ourselves around our principles and develop a common program, but our members have various underlying philosophies and views of the world. Solidarity within the party comes from the ability of those with divergent views on some issues to engage in a collective struggle towards social revolution. We strive to develop feminist practice within the party.

Cultural Freedom

Art is an integral part of daily life. It should not be treated as just a commodity produced by the activity of an elite group. Socialists work to create opportunities for participation in art and cultural activities. We work for the restoration and preservation of the history and culture of working people, women, and oppressed minorities.

The Personal as Political

Living under domination and struggling against it exact a personal toll. Socialists regard the distortion of personal life and interpersonal relations under capitalism as a political matter. Socialism must ultimately improve life; this cannot be accomplished by demanding that personal lives be sacrificed for the movement. We cherish the right of personal privacy and the enrichment of culture through diversity.

Electoral Action

Socialists participate in the electoral process to present socialist alternatives. The Socialist Party does not divorce electoral politics from other strategies for basic change. While a minority, we fight for progressive changes compatible with a socialist future. When a majority we will rapidly introduce those changes, which constitute socialism, with priority to the elimination of the power of big business through public ownership and workers' control.
     By participating in local government, socialists can support movements of working people and make improvements that illustrate the potential of public ownership. We support electoral action independent of the capitalist-controlled two-party system.

Democratic Revolution From Below

No oppressed group has ever been liberated except by its own organized efforts to overthrow its oppressors. A society based on radical democracy, with power exercised through people's organizations, requires a socialist transformation from below. People's organizations cannot be created by legislation, nor can they spring into being only on the eve of a revolution.
     They can grow only in the course of popular struggles, especially those of women, labor, and minority groups. The Socialist Party works to build these organizations democratically.
     The process of struggle profoundly shapes the ends achieved. Our tactics in the struggle for radical democratic change reflect our ultimate goal of a society founded on principles of egalitarian, non-exploitative and non-violent relations among all people and between all peoples.
     To be free we must create new patterns for our lives and live in new ways in the midst of a society that does not understand and is often hostile to new, better modes of life. Our aim is the creation of a new social order, a society in which the commanding value is the infinite preciousness of every woman, man and child.


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## Rich46yo (Sep 23, 2005)

Ok,Ok, I was referring to his ignorant posts as well....Uncle Rich.........


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## GFR (Sep 23, 2005)

Rich46yo said:
			
		

> I wasnt relating to* foreskins* ignorant posts. I was referring to his 500 line motherfuckers that would take an afternoon to read.........Uncle Rich.....


Brilliant post................are you a multiple PHD ????


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## maniclion (Sep 23, 2005)

Nick+ said:
			
		

> Listen I've lived in 'communist' countries (as China supposedly was) back in 1978-79, and I've seen the corruption it breeds. The 'carders' (or elite) Chinese in Communist China were the same people who would have been the 'factory owners' or big bosses under a 'capitalist' system.
> 
> The problem though, may now be ,(now that socialism has been cleared out of the way........{?} ) That rampant exploitation rules the day.... By that , I mean unfettered 'capitalism'. I do hope not.
> 
> One bright outlook I must say.


I see Communism as a country run as one big corporation, I see American capitalism becoming a bunch of Corporations practically becoming their own countries, and it's becoming hard to tell the difference, like Walmart won't sell certain music or books yet a majority of our population shops there and no where else because Walmrt is the only store within miles.  And then you notice that all the items in these Corporation were made in that one huge Corporation across the wide Pacific and you realize we're being eaten from the inside out.


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## Nick+ (Sep 23, 2005)

Foreman- good posts-and good thread. I'll come back later today on them.  It's 2am here I've been up and  mucking out horses since 7am  yesterday. Then a 3 hour drive from 7-10pm this evening with some rather pshycotic French drivezrs sharing the autoroute{highway} and other roads. I aù completely trashed. Got myself back to the internet connection however-- after 3 weeks without.   Not connecting myself up to the phone line  and ADSL/broadband where I live until I know I really have the job............

Nick


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## min0 lee (Sep 23, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> You know the answer to that question baby


Unfortunatly I do.........  I See


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## Rich46yo (Sep 23, 2005)

maniclion said:
			
		

> I see Communism as a country run as one big corporation, I see American capitalism becoming a bunch of Corporations practically becoming their own countries, and it's becoming hard to tell the difference, like Walmart won't sell certain music or books yet a majority of our population shops there and no where else because Walmrt is the only store within miles.  And then you notice that all the items in these Corporation were made in that one huge Corporation across the wide Pacific and you realize we're being eaten from the inside out.



                           Manlicon...dude...you need to get out more........Uncle Rich...............


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## GFR (Sep 24, 2005)

*THE SOCIALIST PARTY* USA stands for the abolition of every form of domination and exploitation, whether based on social class, gender, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, or other characteristics.

We are committed to the transformation of capitalism through the creation of democratic socialist society.
Socialism will establish a new social and economic order in which workers and consumers will take responsibility for and control of production, and the residents will take responsibility for and control of their homes, schools, and local government.

For these reasons we call for social ownership and democratic control of productive resources, for a guarantee to all of the right to participate in societal production, and to a fair share of society??¢â???¬â???¢s product, in accordance with individual needs.

As we pursue a socialist transformation of society, we join with others in demanding fundamental changes
within the existing system. As we build the socialist movement, we organize around a platform committed to our common and interdependent struggles and aspirations.


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## GFR (Sep 24, 2005)

*SOCIALIST PARTY PLATFORM
HUMAN RIGHTS*

Women
The Socialist Party recognizes that a struggle against habitual male dominance and patriarchy must go hand in hand with any struggle against capitalism. Therefore, we pledge our opposition to all forms of sexism, and demand equality for women in all aspects of life.
1- We support comparable worth laws and affirmative action for women.
2- We believe women should be free to improve their own working lives through unions and other organizations.
3- We support the expansion and full funding of 24-hour childcare facilities, community education to combat violence against women, and the establishment of crisis lines and shelters for women and children in abusive situations.
4- We believe that work at home, including childcare, should be shared to enable women to fully participate in society.
5- We call for one years paid leave to be shared by new parents or in its entirety by a single parent.
6- We support the rights of all women to birth control information and supplies, and to all reproductive health services (including abortion).
7- We call for the banning of all involuntary sterilizations.
8- We support organizational structure based on such elements of feminist process as rotating leadership, gender balance, and systems for ensuring full and open participation in discussion and decision-making.
9- We support links with women's sections of democratic socialist parties and women's rights organizations worldwide.

People of Color
The Socialist Party recognizes the intimate link between racism and capitalism and is committed to the creation of a pluralistic
society and the elimination of all forms of discrimination in housing, jobs, education, and health care.
1- We strongly support affirmative action, civil rights, and anti-discrimination laws and programs to end institutional racism.
2- We call for protection of all Native American treaty rights, support for tribal schools and colleges, living wages on Native American reservations and democratization of power and wealth in tribal governments.
3- We oppose all efforts to declare English an official language.
4- We oppose the police practice of racial profiling.

Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender
The Socialist Party recognizes the human and civil rights of all, without regard to sexual orientation or gender identity.
1- We call for the repeal of all sodomy laws and anti-lesbian and gay restrictions, and the legalization of same-sex unions or marriages.
2- We are committed to confronting the heterosexism that provides the fertile ground for homophobic violence, and support all
efforts toward fostering understanding and cooperation among persons and groups of differing sexual orientations and identities.

People with Disabilities
The Socialist Party recognizes the human and civil rights of all, without regard to physical or psychological limitations.
1- We call for full enforcement of the Americans with Disabilities Act.
2- We call for a network of support for people with physical, mental, and developmental disabilities (including home assistance, recreation centers, guaranteed income, voting access, and quality control in residential facilities) that enable them to be as active as possible, and that fully protect their human and civil rights.
3- We call for the continuation of full Social Security benefits for people with disabilities who are able to work part-time.

Seniors
The Socialist Party recognizes the right of seniors to a dignified life, freed from economic hardship and discrimination in employment and credit. Adequate housing, income, health care and medication, and access to social services should be guaranteed.
1- We support an increase in home service and hospice care for older people so that they can remain independent in the community.
2- We support the formation of publicly funded and democratically controlled senior centers to provide positive opportunities for community involvement.
3- We defend the right of seniors to a generous, publicly funded retirement income.
4- We call for vigorous enforcement of standards for nursing homes, elderly advocates to ensure the protection of rights in nursing homes, and a stimulating environment in group home and nursing home situations.

Youth
The Socialist Party believes that a person does not have fewer rights because he or she is a minor. We oppose measures that increase responsibilities and penalties on youth ostensibly to curb crime.
1- We call for an end to military draft registration, and an end to military recruiting in educational institutions.
2- We call for children's allowances in order to satisfy every child's basic rights and needs in a stimulating, empowering, and caring environment.
3- We support the rights of parents, grandparents, and all other caring adults to share in the child-rearing process.
4- We support free, quality, care and education for all children and young people, federally financed and community controlled through democratically elected local boards.


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## GFR (Sep 24, 2005)

*SOCIALIST PARTY PLATFORM
HUMAN NEEDS*

*Health Care*
The Socialist Party stands for socialized medicine -- a health care system based on universal coverage, salaried doctors and health
care workers, and revenues derived from a graduated income tax.
1- We support a single-payer National Health Program with full standard and alternative medical and dental coverage for all,
publicly funded through progressive taxation, and controlled by democratically elected local boards.
2- We call for a health care system that emphasizes preventive care, respects patients privacy, gives special attention to the needs of the physically and mentally disabled, and conducts treatment and research unimpaired by sexism, racism, or homophobia.
3- We call for full funding for AIDS research.
4- We call for the management of heroin addiction other than replacing it with an addiction to methadone.
5- The Socialist Party would re-fund community mental health services so that low-cost or no cost treatment is available on a voluntary basis, with patients rights respected.
6- The Socialist Party opposes involuntary incarceration without due process for treatment, except in the most extreme cases.

*Housing*
The Socialist Party recognizes the right of all people to high quality, low cost housing.
1- We call for large-scale public investment in the construction of low cost, scattered site, community-based, high quality housing.
2- We call for rent control for all rental units, and the right of tenants to organize.
3- We support the formation of housing cooperatives and nonprofit land trusts, the adoption of advanced and cost-cutting technology in building, and the rehabilitation and weatherization of existing housing.

*Education*
The Socialist Party recognizes the right of students of all ages to a free, quality education in a safe and supportive environment,
and of all school employees to good wages, benefits, and working conditions.
1-We call for full and equal funding of public education, for free tuition at the post-secondary level, and for an end to all public funding and subsidizing of private schools.
2- We support public childcare starting from infancy, and public education starting at age 3, with caregivers and teachers of young children receiving the same training, wages, and benefits as teachers at every other level of the educational system.
3- We oppose tying teachers' pay to student performance, forcing schools within a system to compete against each other, selling on-campus advertising in order to raise funds, and the increasing dependence of post-secondary institutions on corporate funding.
4- We call for fewer students per teacher.
5-  We call for vigorous affirmative action programs so that each public institution of higher education reflects the community at
large in terms of race/ethnicity, gender, and economic background.
6- We support multicultural, multilingual, experimental education at all levels.
7- We call for an egalitarian educational system with teaching methods that accommodate the wide range of teaching and learning styles, and that provides all students with the means to obtain the post-secondary education they desire.
8- We support student input into curriculum formation and in the hiring and dismissal procedures of school personnel.
9- We call for student representation on school boards.
10- We call for opportunities for lifelong self-education, with retraining programs and transitional financial support for workers
displaced by.
11- We call for free and open access to information, including the public ownership of all large databases, so that access cannot be restricted to those able to pay transaction fees.
* 
Transportation*
The Socialist Party calls for extensive publicly owned mass transit systems in both urban and rural areas, at no or minimal cost to the users.
1- We call for government-subsidized programs to expand safe routes for foot and bicycle paths.
2- We call for the creation of fully funded high-speed rail transportation systems between cities, with fares set low enough to be a viable alternative to the use of the automobile.
3- We call for pedestrian ways, which exclude vehicles from the downtown area of cities and towns, accessible by mass transit.
4- We call for an end to the expansion of the interstate highway system in conjunction with the reduction of combustion engine/auto based transport.
<>5- We support all types of federally funded insurance designed to increase the pool of those insured, to combat profit motivated price gouging, and to prevent racial and geographical profiling, and gender and class discrimination that is inherent in the insurance industry.


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## GFR (Sep 24, 2005)

*SOCIALIST PARTY PLATFORM
POLITICAL STRUCTURE
*
The Socialist Party stands for political activity independent of the two major corporate parties. We view electoral activity as an
important component of the struggle for fundamental social change. Participation in elections (local, state and national) is a
valuable means of clarifying our position on a wide range of issues, of broadly disseminating our principles and programs, and of
asserting and reaffirming our commitment to the democratic process.

*Grassroots Democracy*
1-We call for the overhaul of the constitution of the United States in order to achieve a diverse legislative body.
2- We call for ballot access laws that give all political parties a fair chance to have their candidates appear on the ballot.
3- We support the introduction of proportional representation at every level of government.
4- We call for full representation for the US territories of Guam and Puerto Rico, all Native American reservations, and the
District of Columbia.

*Fair Elections*
The Socialist Party supports the public financing of candidates for public office as long as this funding extends to the candidates of
alternative political parties.
1- We call for the closing of the loophole sanctioned by the Supreme Court under which candidates can spend an unlimited sum
of their personal wealth on their own campaigns.
2- We call for equal access to media for all political parties.


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## GFR (Sep 24, 2005)

*SOCIALIST PARTY PLATFORM
"War On Terrorism"
*
The Socialist Party condemns the so-called War on Terrorism as a crime against humanity. The U.S. Government has been using
the fear and grief of September 11 to enact the right wing political agenda of September 10.

1- We condemn the crusade (George W. Bush's word) against Islam as racist.
2- We call for the immediate repeal of the U.S.A. P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Acts and the Anti-Terrorism & Death Penalty Act.
3- We oppose the Homeland Security department with its sweeping police powers.
4- We demand the exclusion of the military from domestic law enforcement.
5- The United Nations Charter permits member nations to defend themselves only if attacked. The U.S. government policy of   attacking first, on the grounds that the target nation is (in Washington 's sole opinion) a threat, is plainly criminal, and we condemn it.


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## GFR (Sep 24, 2005)

*SOCIALIST PARTY PLATFORM
FOREIGN POLICY*

The United States is the sole remaining global superpower. The U.S. government uses its overwhelming military power to consolidate its strategic hold over the entire world and to defend and protect U.S. owned corporations as they exploit the working people and natural resources of the entire planet. We stand in total opposition to U.S. imperialism.

    * We call for an immediate withdrawal of all US military and paramilitary forces stationed outside the borders of the United States.
    * We call for the United States to immediately and unconditionally withdraw its forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    * We call on Israel to end the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, as a precondition to peace. We support an immediate cutoff of all U.S. military aid to Israel.
    * We call for the abolition of the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, and all other institutions of covert warfare.
    * We stand for an international treaty outlawing all weapons of mass destruction, including the use of depleted uranium in conventional weapons.
    * We call for an immediate cut off of 50% in the military budget followed by additional cuts, with the aim of rapidly reducing the military budget to less than 10% of its current level, with the "peace dividend" directed to essential social services and to the cost of cleaning up contaminated  military sites.
    * We call for the disbanding of NATO and all other aggressive military alliances, and the closing of all overseas bases.
    * We call for an end to US arms sales throughout the world.
    * We call for the US to end its domination of the United Nations, and to pay off its debts to that organization.
    * We call for an end to veto power in the UN and and end to permanent membership in the Security Council.
    * We call for an end to the US occupation of the province of Guantanamo.


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## GFR (Sep 24, 2005)

*SOCIALIST PARTY PLATFORM
ENVIRONMENT
*
Environmental Justice
The Socialist Party recognizes that the mechanisms in capitalism that oppress and alienate humans are the same mechanisms that
destroy the environment.
1- Therefore we call for public ownership and democratic control of all our natural resources in order to conserve resources, preserve our wilderness areas, and restore environmental quality.
2- We call for placing financial responsibility on private companies for cleaning up their own toxic wastes.
3- We call for requiring manufacturers to contribute to research and development of new technologies for cleaning up and
preventing future toxic wastes.
4- We oppose any policies that encourage corporations to place local municipal landfills, toxic waste disposal sites, or incinerators in minority communities.
5- We call for legal action against any U.S. corporation that violates any U.S. environmental laws in the operation of facilities overseas.

Worker Protection
We support the creation of a Superfund for Workers that would pay a workerâ??????s full wages and health insurance as well as
necessary educational and/or retraining costs if that worker loses a job due to environmental transition, downsizing, corporate
dismantlement, or capital flight.

Natural Resources
1- We support a policy of no clear cutting in commercial forestry, a ban on commercial cutting in old-growth forests, and an
environmentally sound timber policy that takes into account the historical ecology of the region.
2- We call for endangered species protection that focuses on habitat-centered protection for plants and animals.
3- We support the democratic management of grazing lands, safe drinking water, and stringent air pollution standards.

Environmental Policy
1-We oppose nuclear power projects and call for the immediate decommissioning of all nuclear power plants, a ban on the
export of nuclear technology, and any efforts to use nuclear technology in space.
2- We support large-scale environmental restoration efforts. We support large-scale environmental restoration efforts.
3-We support the recycling of glass, metals, plastic, paper, and chemicals, and creating markets for recycled materials.
4- We call for reforestation programs, which will include preservation of an ecological balance in existing forest areas.
5- We support mass development of solar technology and other renewable, non-polluting energy sources.
6- We call for shutting down waste incinerators, and phasing out landfills. We also support Research and Development efforts into recycling technology.

Energy
1- We call for municipal ownership and control of energy plants, in a non-profit and decentralized system that assures the most
careful use of natural resources.
2- We call for the development of alternative energy sources including solar, geothermal, wind, hydropower, and biomass.
3- We call for a sliding-scale index, which is in favor of low-income people to ensure that all people have access to utility services.


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## GFR (Sep 24, 2005)

*SOCIALIST PARTY PLATFORM
ECONOMICS
*
The Socialist Party stands for a fundamental transformation of the economy, focusing on producing for need not profit, with the  goal of a new society without social classes, and without exploitation based on class, race, or gender.

1- We call for a minimum wage of $12 an hour, indexed to the cost of living.
2- We support the provision of a livable guaranteed annual income for those outside the work force.
3- We call for a full employment policy and programs.
4- We call for all financial institutions to be socially owned and operated by a democratically-controlled national banking authority, which should include credit unions, mutual insurance cooperatives, and cooperative state banks, in order to meet the diversity of local and regional needs and the needs of various sectors of the economy.
5- We call for a steeply graduated income tax, and a maximum income of no more than ten times the minimum.
6- We oppose the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and the World Trade Organization as instruments of oppression throughout the world.
7- We support restoring and increasing federal grants to democratically controlled local and state governments.
8- We oppose balancing the federal budget at the expense of funding basic human services.
9- We call for a National Pension Authority to hold the assets of private pension funds and a levy against corporate assets for any pension fund deficits.
10- We call for increased unemployment compensation.
11- We support a program of massive federal investment in both urban and rural areas for infrastructure reconstruction and economic development.
12- We call for the elimination of subsidies and tax breaks that benefit corporations and wealthy households at the expense of working people.
13- We call for the creation of new jobs through the formation of worker- and community-controlled cooperatives, for the purpose of providing quality housing, health care, education, food, and clothing for all.
14- We call for Social Security, health, disability, and unemployment insurance to be paid for by a steeply graduated income tax
and by a steeply graduated estate tax. We oppose such regressive taxes as the payroll tax, sales tax, and â?????sinâ???� tax.
15- We support tax benefits for renters equal to those for homeowners.
16- We support the use of any federal budget surplus on human services rather than tax cuts that will only benefit the rich. We call for the creation of new jobs through the formation of worker- and community-controlled cooperatives, for the purpose of providing quality housing, health care, education, food, and clothing for all.
17- We call for Social Security, health, disability, and unemployment insurance to be paid for by a steeply graduated income tax
and by a steeply graduated estate tax. We oppose such regressive taxes as the payroll tax, sales tax, and â?????sinâ???� tax.
18- We support tax benefits for renters equal to those for homeowners.
19- We support the use of any federal budget surplus on human services rather than tax cuts that will only benefit the rich.


----------



## GFR (Sep 24, 2005)

*SOCIALIST PARTY PLATFORM
Animal Rights*

The Socialist Party recognizes the rights of animals to lives free from unnecessary pain and suffering, and the responsibility of
people to protect those rights.
1- We support the spaying and neutering of pets to prevent the massive extermination resulting from overpopulation.
2- We oppose entertainment that causes pain to animals.
3- We call for the banning of the fur trade.
4- We support greater inclusion and enforcement of the Endangered Species Act.
5- We call for a ban on animal experimentation for product development, and support products that are not tested on animals.
6- We oppose factory-farming practices of overcrowding, drugging, and otherwise cruelly treating animals, practices that are inhumane.


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## GFR (Sep 24, 2005)

*SOCIALIST PARTY PLATFORM
LABOR*

The Socialist Party stands for worker control of all industry through the democratic organization of the workplace, for the social ownership of the means of production and distribution, and for international solidarity among working people.

Unions
1- We support the right of any number of interested workers in a workplace to form a union and bargain with their employer, with no limits on the subjects upon which employees and unions may bargain with employers.
2- We call for recognizing a union based on cards signed.
3- We call for the democratic control of all unions by their membership, and independent of employer domination and influence.
4- We support efforts to organize all workers, particularly workers in the service industries, enlisted personnel in the Armed Forces, and the difficult to organize (including students, home workers, homeless people, prison inmates, and the unemployed).
5- We support militant, united labor action including secondary strikes and boycotts.
6- We support the right of first-time and part-time workers to full benefits.
7- We call for the repeal of all repressive labor legislation such as the Hatch Act, the Taft-Hartley Act, the Landrum-Griffin Act,
and all the so-called â?????right-to-workâ???� laws.

Worker Control
1- We call for workplaces free from discrimination and harassment based on gender, race, ethnicity, age, sexual preference, or
physical or mental disability.
2- We support the right of workers to hold shop meetings on company premises, elect their immediate supervisors, and administer health and safety programs through the formation of shop councils.
3- We call for full disclosure of corporate plans to close and relocate plants, a punitive tax on runaway industry, and compensation for the workers and communities affected by plant closings.
4- We support the right of workers, consumers, and communities to information on plant safety, hazardous wastes, toxic substances, and the quality of goods and services.

Internationalism
1- We call for the international organization of labor as the only way of combating the exploitation of workers in a global
economy based on the transnational corporation.
2- We call for international labor standards, including the unrestrained right to organize labor unions and a 30 hour work week
at no loss of pay, with six weeks annual paid vacation, and one year parental leave for new parents at no loss of seniority.
3- We support the use of secondary boycotts, hot cargo agreements, and sympathy strikes to defend workersâ?????? rights worldwide.
4- We support the right of all workers to organize irrespective of job titles and responsibilities, citizenship status, method of payment, or sector of the economy where employed.


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## GFR (Sep 24, 2005)

*SOCIALIST PARTY PLATFORM
Agriculture*

The Socialist Party envisions a system of organic agriculture based on farming cooperatives.
1- We support agricultural worker cooperatives, and oppose large corporate factory farms that lower food quality, cause profound damage to the environment, push farmers off the land, cruelly treat animals, and wreck small town culture.
2- We call for a farm price support system that guarantees farmers a return on the full cost of production.
3- We call for low-cost loans, grants, and technical help to farmers including help to shift farm production from non-essentials to staple foods and fibers.
4- We encourage the reintroduction of hemp farming.
5- We support the right of farmers and farm workers to organize unions for good wages, housing, and working conditions (including the right to be protected from pesticides).
6- We support the right of farmers and farm workers to be included in negotiating contracts with canneries as well as growers.
7- We support land use planning to protect farmland from suburban sprawl.
8- We encourage plant diversity, and oppose the creating, patenting, and licensing of life forms.
9- We call for the labeling of artificially genetically altered food, and the banning of genetically altered seeds to make them sterile.
10- We call for the democratic control of agricultural research and the complete testing of agricultural products.
11- We support inspections of domestic and imported agricultural products to make sure they meet US standards for food safety, and environmental and worker protection.
12- We call for country-of-origin labeling on agricultural products.
13- We call for the reassessment of all international trade negotiations in light of workersâ??????, farmersâ??????, consumersâ??????, and environmental interests.
14- We call for the production of agriculturally produced and environmentally sound alternative fuels to reduce our dependence on petroleum.
15- We support research toward the elimination of the use of pesticides.


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## brogers (Sep 24, 2005)

Yes, let's all turnover most of the important decisions in our life to some government worker.  Great plan.


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## brogers (Sep 24, 2005)

Libertarians:

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives, and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.
We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.

Consequently, we defend each person's right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power.


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## brogers (Sep 24, 2005)

Libertarians on taxation:

*The Issue:* Government manipulation of the economy creates an entrenched privileged class -- those with access to tax money -- and an exploited class -- those who are net taxpayers.

*The Principle: *All persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. Government activity should not include the forcible collection of money or goods from individuals in violation of their individual rights. No tax can ever be fair, simple or neutral to the free market. 

*Solutions: *Specifically, we: a.) support the right of any individual to challenge the payment of taxes on moral, religious, legal or constitutional grounds; b.) oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes; c.) support the repeal of the Sixteenth Amendment, and oppose any increase in existing tax rates and the imposition of any new taxes; d.) support the repeal of all taxation; and e.) support a declaration of unconditional amnesty for all those individuals who have been convicted of, or who now stand accused of, tax resistance. We oppose as involuntary servitude any legal requirements forcing employers or business owners to serve as tax collectors for federal, state, or local tax agencies. We oppose any and all increases in the rate of taxation or categories of taxpayers, including the elimination of deductions, exemptions or credits in the spurious name of "fairness," "simplicity," or alleged "neutrality to the free market."


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## brogers (Sep 24, 2005)

*Social Security*

*The Issue:* Social Security is a bankrupt, immoral pyramid-scheme that has trillions of dollars of unfunded liabilities and yields below average returns for those trapped in it. Any financial advisor who suggested investing in a program like this would go to jail, but the members of Congress get off scot-free.

*The Principle: *In a free society, retirement planning is the responsibility of the individual, not the government. 

*Solutions: *We favor replacing the current fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, government sponsored Social Security system with a private voluntary system. 

*Transitional Action: *Pending that replacement, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary. Victims of the Social Security tax should also have a claim against government property.


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## brogers (Sep 24, 2005)

*Freedom and Responsibility*

*The Issue:* Personal responsibility is discouraged by government denying individuals the opportunity to exercise it. In fact, the denial of freedom fosters irresponsibility.

*The Principle:* Individuals should be free to make choices for themselves and to accept responsibility for the consequences of the choices they make. We must accept the right of others to choose for themselves if we are to have the same right. Our support of an individual's right to make choices in life does not mean that we necessarily approve or disapprove of those choices. We believe people must accept personal responsibility for the consequences of their actions. 

*Solutions:* Libertarian policies will promote a society where people are free to make and learn from their own decisions. 

*Transitional Actions:* Repeal all laws that presume government knows better than the individual how to run that person's life. Encourage private sector dissemination of information to help consumers make informed decisions on products and services. Enforce laws against fraud and misrepresentation.


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## brogers (Sep 24, 2005)

*The War on Drugs*

*The Issue:* The suffering that drug misuse has brought about is deplorable; however, drug prohibition causes more harm than drugs themselves. The so-called "War on Drugs" is in reality a war against the American people, our Constitution and the Bill of Rights. It is a grave threat to individual liberty, to domestic order and to peace in the world.

*The Principle: *Individuals should have the right to use drugs, whether for medical or recreational purposes, without fear of legal reprisals, but must be held legally responsible for the consequences of their actions only if they violate others' rights. 

*Solutions: *Social involvement by individuals is essential to address the problem of substance misuse and abuse. Popular education and assistance groups are a better approach than prohibition, and we support the activities of private organizations as the best way to move forward on the issue. 

*Transitional Action: *Repeal all laws establishing criminal or civil penalties for the use of drugs. Repeal laws that infringe upon individual rights to be secure in our persons, homes, and property as protected by the Fourth Amendment. Stop the use of "anti-crime" measures such as profiling or civil asset forfeiture that reduce the standard of proof historically borne by government in prosecutions. Stop prosecuting accused non-violent drug offenders, and pardon those previously convicted.


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## GFR (Sep 24, 2005)

brogers said:
			
		

> Yes, let's all turnover most of the important decisions in our life to some government worker.  Great plan.


You already do that now in America.


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## GFR (Sep 24, 2005)

brogers said:
			
		

> Libertarians:
> 
> As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives, and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.
> We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.
> ...


I don't know if you're a Libertarian but I was back in the early 90's. I like that party much more than the Republicans or the Democrats, they do have 2 or 3 ideas that I dislike greatly.......I would have to read up on their platform to remember what they were.


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## Rich46yo (Sep 25, 2005)

So......how long after the elections do you think these platforms would last? Not that I read any of them mind you.........Uncle Rich.....


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## GFR (Sep 25, 2005)

I will tell you nothing and you will like it.


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## Rich46yo (Sep 25, 2005)

Foreskin I get a kick out of everything you say. Your young enough to actually believe Politics can be a noble thing, given the right philosophy behind it. Unfortunately I'm old and experienced enough to know they are all a bunch of fucking thieves. Ideology is mostly for the young.......kiddo.

                         When you turn 48yo remember your Uncle Rich telling you this....................Uncle Rich..............


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## BigDyl (Sep 25, 2005)

Uncle Rich got served.


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## clemson357 (Sep 25, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> *SOCIALIST PARTY PLATFORM
> ECONOMICS
> *
> The Socialist Party stands for a fundamental transformation of the economy, focusing on producing for need not profit, with the  goal of a new society without social classes, and without exploitation based on class, race, or gender.
> ...




sounds more like communism.  

here is a great series of ideas:
lets distribute rewards, not based on achievement but based on who can complain the loudest.  that definitely won't lead to any problems.  lets not reward those who go tens of thousands of dollars in debt and spend years becoming doctors, lawyers, or other professionals.  instead, lets incorporate a 'steeply graduated income tax' so that they can make no more than 10 times the guy who achieves absolutely nothing.  of course, we will still expect these people to work harder and risk more to become professionals, because we depend on them.  

in fact, lets pay the people who do absolutely nothing even more than we pay them now.  

lets raise the minimum wage to 12 dollars per hour.  that will definitely work, despite the fact that some people do not have a marketable skill worth that much.  corporations will not pass these costs on to the consumer, oh no, they will swallow the cost.  Because if they did pass on the cost, then that would lead to an increase in the price of all commodities and nullify the increase of minimum wage.

further, we will refer to any decrease in the taxes on the 'rich' as being at the 'cost' of the poor.  disregard the fact that they already pay 11 times more tax for the same exact benefits.


those are some great fucking ideas.  besides the fact that it is communism and it would never work.


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## BigDyl (Sep 25, 2005)

I think corporations are the problem.  They have become meglomanical in their pursuit for wealth and power.


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## GFR (Sep 25, 2005)

Rich46yo said:
			
		

> Foreskin I get a kick out of everything you say. Your young enough to actually believe Politics can be a noble thing, given the right philosophy behind it. Unfortunately I'm old and experienced enough to know they are all a bunch of fucking thieves. Ideology is mostly for the young.......kiddo.
> 
> When you turn 48yo remember your Uncle Rich telling you this....................Uncle Rich..............


You are as clueless on the subject of "me" as you seem to be on all subjects you post about. But if it makes you feel like the wise old owl then keep thinking you know what I believe and think


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## GFR (Sep 25, 2005)

clemson357 said:
			
		

> sounds more like communism.
> 
> here is a great series of ideas:
> lets distribute rewards, not based on achievement but based on who can complain the loudest.  that definitely won't lead to any problems.  lets not reward those who go tens of thousands of dollars in debt and spend years becoming doctors, lawyers, or other professionals.  instead, lets incorporate a 'steeply graduated income tax' so that they can make no more than 10 times the guy who achieves absolutely nothing.  of course, we will still expect these people to work harder and risk more to become professionals, because we depend on them.
> ...



Another stupid middle class kid who dreams of the day he is a Billionaire


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## The Monkey Man (Sep 25, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Another stupid middle class kid who dreams of the day he is a Billionaire


A good woman will fix that for him -


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## brogers (Sep 25, 2005)

he demonstrates a far greater understanding of 1) human nature 2) government and 3) politics than yourself.  You're the one who thinks socialism works, idiot.


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## doeslayer (Sep 25, 2005)

Yeah that's it, blame it on Bush.  I am from the south and I know plenty of people in new orleans.  They all know that it is the local governments corruptness that  led to the "misplacement" of funds, hence the levee failures.  This is one of the most illogical attacks on Bush I have ever seen. Sad, but the lack of education is apparent here.


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## GFR (Sep 25, 2005)

My God man you are truly an idiot and intellectual slave.        pathetic 
The classic sign of an idiot is never to answer a question and to always change the subject. Things you do well


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## GFR (Sep 25, 2005)

Statement on John Roberts and Rosie Jimenez (Womens Commission)- August 28, 2005
This Fall, while the liberals and the mainstream women's rights organizations are spending millions of dollars on a public relations campaign to block the nomination of John Roberts to the Supreme Court, those of us on the radical left will be organizing for Rosie Jimenez Day and for the repeal of the Hyde Amendment, the law responsible for the death of Ms Jimenez and so many others unable to get a safe,legal abortion simply because Medicaid in their state wouldn't pay for it.

While the regressive and reprehensible actions by judges and legislators must be exposed and condemned, the primary task of socialist feminists is to challenge their underlying causes, namely: political maneuvers in the service of an economic system predicated on the economic, political, social, and sexual exploitation of women; patriarchal disrespect for women's needs and rights; increasing disregard for the separation of church and state; subservience of the "leaders" of the abortion rights movement to the Democratic Party; and the readiness of feminists to abandon militant tactics in favor of the legalistic and legislative approach advocated by NARAL and NOW.

It's up to us as socialist feminists to continually push for the rebuilding of radicalism within the abortion rights/reproductive justice movement: the radicalism that forced state legislators and eventually the Supreme Court to acknowledge the Constitutional right of women to have an abortion if they so choose. Today, we are demanding nothing less than full reproductive freedom for all women, in the context of our broader social, political, economic, and sexual rights.  This is only possible by working together to create and maintain an energized, empowering, grassroots, pro-choice presence within an independent, mass movement for fundamental social change: in other words, the replacement of capitalism with democratic socialism.

No amount of pleading to "good" or "less bad" judges or legislators will get us to our goal.  Involvement in the debate over Judge Roberts, other than providing an opportunity for discussion of the real issues, is just a waste of time.   More than that, it helps maintain the illusion that the capitalism system will ultimately be willing to meet our basic human needs if we can just make the right deals.

This Fall while the liberals are spinning their wheels over the Roberts nomination, let's get off the defensive and take to the streets on October 3 for Rosie Jimenez Day.  Vision and activism, not endless strategies of reaction to right-wing attacks, are the ways we will bring more members of our communities into a revitalized reproductive rights movement: a movement that unequivocally demands access to abortion for all women as an integral part of a nationalized system of free,high-quality health care.  

Honor the memory of Rosie Jimenez.  Fight for the repeal of the Hyde Amendment. 
Stop the war on women!


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## GFR (Sep 25, 2005)

STATE PARTIES, LOCALS AND COMMISSIONS
California
Socialist Party of California 2617 S. Hauser Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90016
Bay Area Socialist Party P.O. Box 22822 Oakland, CA 94609
Socialist Party of Southern Calif. 2617 S. Hauser Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90016

Colorado
Socialist Party of Colorado  c/o 2625 Pine St. Boulder, CO 80302
Metro Denver Socialist Party c/o 9624 Grape Court Thorton, CO 80229 email

Connecticut
Socialist Party of Central/Eastern Connecticut PO Box 310681 Newington, CT 06131 email

Florida
Socialist Party of Florida c/o 13938 Manowar Ln. Jacksonville Beach, FL 32250
Jacksonville Socialist Party  c/o 13938 Manowar Ln. Jacksonville Beach, FL 32250

Iowa
Iowa Socialist Party PO Box 924 Iowa City, IA 52244

Massachusetts
Socialist Party of  Massachusetts c/o 43 Taylor Hill Rd. Montague, MA 01351
Greater Boston Socialist Party PO Box 541468 Waltham, MA 02454
Tom Mooney (Western Mass.) Local c/o 43 Taylor Hill Rd. Montague, MA 01351

Michigan
Socialist Party of Michigan PO Box 3285 Kalamazoo, MI 49003
Kalamazoo Socialist Party PO Box 3285 Kalamazoo, MI 49003

New Jersey
Socialist Party of New Jersey PO Box 8622 Saddle Brook, NJ 07663
Northern New Jersey Socialist Party PO Box 86 Rochelle Park, NJ 07662

New York
Socialist Party of New York c/o D. Edelstein, 206 Berkeley Drive, Syracuse, NY 13210-3040
Socialist Party of Greater NYC   c/o 339 Lafayette St. #303 New York, NY 10012
Central New York Socialist Party PO Box 35113 University Station Syracuse, NY 13235

North Carolina
Socialist Party of North Carolina PO Box 37533 Raleigh, NC 27627
Salvador Allende Local (Raleigh-Durham) PO Box 37533 Raleigh, NC 27627
Art Young Local (Eastern North Carolina) PO Box 217 Richlands, NC 28574

Ohio
Socialist Party of Ohio c/o PO Box 204 Yellow Springs, OH 45387

Oregon
Socialist Party of Oregon PO Box 5633 Portland, OR 97228
Clackamas Co. Socialist Party c/o 16 SW Monticello Dr. Lake Oswego, OR 97035
Helen Keller Memorial Local c/o 3375 NW Fifth Ave. Ontario, OR 97035
Lane County Socialist Party c/o 1555 W. 18th Ave. #6 Eugene, OR 97402
Multnomah County Socialist Party c/o PO Box 5633 Portland, OR 97228

Pennsylvania
Socialist Party of Pennsylvania c/o 102 Rachel Ln. Coatesville. PA 18320
Greater Philadelphia Socialist Party c/o 2211 Bainbridge St. Philadelphia, PA 19146
Johnstown Socialist Party c/o 331 Theatre Dr. #1-B4 Johnstown, PA 19526
South West PA Socialist Party c/o 4618 Carroll St. Pittsburgh, PA 15224

Texas
Socialist Party of Texas PO Box 2640 Austin, TX 78768
SP of the Rio Grande Valley/ PS del Valle PMB 117  E. Ruben Torres Sr. Suite A16 Brownsville, TX 78526

Vermont
Greater Brattleboro Socialist Party c/o 71 Westminster Rd.  Putney, VT 05346

Virginia
Social Dem. Party of Virginia c/o 251 Finchingfield Ct. Sterling, VA 20165

Washington
Socialist Party of Washington PO Box 656 Mountlake Terrace, WA 98043

Wisconsin
Socialist Party of Wisconsin 1001 East Keefe Milwaukee, WI 53212
Socialist Party of Milwaukee c/o 1001 East Keefe Milwaukee, WI 53212
Socialist Party of So. Central WI c/o 3206 Gregory St. Madison, WI 53711

Commissions
Arts & Culture Commission- Chair: Angel Martinez 
Faith & Socialism Commission- Chair: Antonio Salas. 477 Jean St. Apt. C Oakland, CA 9460
International Commission- Chair: Eric Chester
Labor Commission- Chair: Matt Andrews  website
Native American Commission- Chair: Hunter Gray 2000 Sandy Ln. Pocatello, ID 83204
People of Color Commission- Chair: Erik Toren 1008 El Campo Dr. San Juan, TX 78589
Queer Commission- Chair: Steve Donahue
Women's Commission- Chair: Susan Dorazio 43 Taylor Hill Rd. Montague, MA 01351
Young People's Socialist League- c/o PO Box 204 Yellow Springs, OH 45384


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## brogers (Sep 25, 2005)

"the law responsible for the death of Ms Jimenez and so many others unable to get a safe,legal abortion simply because Medicaid in their state wouldn't pay for it."

Oh so it was the law that killed her.  Right.  Maybe she shouldn't go fucking people if she doesn't want to get pregnant and can't accept responsibility for her decisions.  Every decision has consequences.

BTW, forcing tax payers to pay for people's abortions is fucking disgusting, almost as digusting as jamming forceps into a baby's skull and sucking it's brain out and then calling it "humane"


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## GFR (Sep 25, 2005)

I would think you would be happy some poor fuck died ( i.e non productive breeder on welfare).......but you must be a bible humper so I can see your point.


----------



## GFR (Sep 25, 2005)

Iy's easy for an ignorant loser like you to pick at  the ideas of some party you do not like. If you had any original thought in your head you might try to talk about what system would be better.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 26, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Iy's easy for an ignorant loser like you to pick at the ideas of some party you do not like. If you had any original thought in your head you might try to talk about what system would be better.


one might try taking his own advice


----------



## GFR (Sep 26, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> one might try taking his own advice


Once again another non comment filled with emotion and nothing else....typical and pathetic at the same time.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 26, 2005)

foreman you have now reached an all time low.  good luck on your quest to be the most posted man on IM i just wish once in a while one of them would be worth reading


----------



## GFR (Sep 26, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> foreman you have now reached an all time low.  good luck on your quest to be the most posted man on IM i just wish once in a while one of them would be worth reading


http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=54025
you might enjoy reading this thread, it sums upall your beliefs and actions to a tea.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 26, 2005)

bio-chem said:
			
		

> foreman you have now reached an all time low. good luck on your quest to be the most posted man on IM i just wish once in a while one of them would be worth reading


 Sadly, it'll be the high point of his life.


----------



## GFR (Sep 26, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> Sadly, it'll be the high point of his life.


*The 7 conditions (Warning signs)
that foster & fuel fascism are:
*



Hate: Pronounced, perpetuated and accepted public disdain of a specific group defined by race, origin, theology or association.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 26, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=54025
> you might enjoy reading this thread, it sums upall your beliefs and actions to a tea.


and you believe this to be the state of affairs in which we are forced to live?


----------



## GFR (Sep 26, 2005)

Not exactly but we are very close to it in many ways.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 26, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> *The 7 conditions (Warning signs)
> that foster & fuel fascism are:
> *
> 
> ...


 I'm sure one of the other signs is "Now entering Compton."


----------



## GFR (Sep 26, 2005)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> I'm sure one of the other signs is "Now entering Compton."


When I worked in LA I had to go to Compton once a month to a Gym that was one of our customers. I had a rule......10AM is too late.....so I would get there by 7 or 8 AM.....I think you know the reason for that rule.


----------



## clemson357 (Sep 26, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Another stupid middle class kid who dreams of the day he is a Billionaire



another troll who achieved nothing and now can only bitch about how the successful people should be giving him more money.  go back to your manual labor job, quit acting like you know something about politics; all you are doing is copying and pasting.  Maybe if you had put that effort into studying you could have achieved something

you are the biggest troll on this site.


----------



## GFR (Sep 26, 2005)

clemson357 said:
			
		

> another troll who achieved nothing and now can only bitch about how the successful people should be giving him more money.  go back to your manual labor job, quit acting like you know something about politics; all you are doing is copying and pasting.  Maybe if you had put that effort into studying you could have achieved something
> 
> you are the biggest troll on this site.


Sorry loser but I'm one of the rich you worshp so much, if your good I might give you a $35K job some day.


----------



## clemson357 (Sep 26, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> My God man you are truly an idiot and intellectual slave.        pathetic
> *The classic sign of an idiot is never to answer a question and to always change the subject*. Things you do well




   

isn't that calling the kettle black. 

you didn't respond in substance to anything in my post, as well as many other people's.  thats because you can't find an answer to copy and paste, and original thought isn't your strong suit.


----------



## clemson357 (Sep 26, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Sorry loser but I'm one of the rich you worshp so much, if your good I might give you a $35K job some day.



yeah, you and 19inchpump both.    

do you fuck maria carrey while swimming in your gold-plated pool too?

you talk a big game....just like that stupid wigger that you wanted to suck on.


----------



## GFR (Sep 26, 2005)

clemson357 said:
			
		

> yeah, you and 19inchpump both.
> 
> do you fuck maria carrey while swimming in your gold-plated pool too?
> 
> you talk a big game....just like that stupid wigger that you wanted to suck on.


Keep dreaming of the day you make more than 35K loser  
And vote for the Republicans every time so I can keep all my money.  

Now go Troll up some other site dummy


----------



## clemson357 (Sep 26, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Keep dreaming of the day you make more than 35K loser



if you get bored, you can look up what the average STARTING salarey is for an intellectual property lawyer.


----------



## BigDyl (Sep 26, 2005)

Hey, dammit, I want some money!  Send it to me!


----------



## GFR (Sep 26, 2005)

clemson357 said:
			
		

> if you get bored, you can look up what the average STARTING *salarey* is for an intellectual property lawyer.


         

I hope you have lots of connections and family that have been in Law for a few decades....Lawyers are a dime a dozen and most don't make more than a middle class *salary*. 
One of the worst choices you could make, unless your connected or a prodigy......and its clear by the mediocrity of your posts you're not


----------



## brogers (Sep 26, 2005)

Actually, so long as you do well in school, firms will COMPETE for you. Two of my friends are top 10% of their class, each had internships that had a salary that would pay well over 100K/year. Keep in mind, this is an INTERNSHIP. Yes we have too many lawyers, but if you apply yourself in school you will no doubt come out very, very well financially.


----------



## GFR (Sep 26, 2005)

brogers said:
			
		

> Actually, so long as you do well in school, firms will COMPETE for you. Two of my friends are top 10% of their class, each had internships that had a salary that would pay well over 100K/year. Keep in mind, this is an INTERNSHIP. Yes we have too many lawyers, but if you apply yourself in school you will no doubt come out very, very well financially.


Very true I have several family members who practice law, but all of them were the top 1% of their class and have great connections.....most people do not...
100K is good money unless you live in L.A. New York city or such places. I have a buddy in LA who is a Lawyer and he usto say 100K is the poverty line in LA..


----------



## BigDyl (Sep 26, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Very true I have several family members who practice law, but all of them were the top 1% of their class and have great connections.....most people do not...
> 100K is good money unless you live in L.A. New York city or such places. I have a buddy in LA who is a Lawyer and he usto say 100K is the poverty line in LA..




Pssh %1 of their class.  I was at the top of my university at Harvard and MIT.  YAWN.


----------



## kbm8795 (Sep 26, 2005)

doeslayer said:
			
		

> Yeah that's it, blame it on Bush.  I am from the south and I know plenty of people in new orleans.  They all know that it is the local governments corruptness that  led to the "misplacement" of funds, hence the levee failures.  This is one of the most illogical attacks on Bush I have ever seen. Sad, but the lack of education is apparent here.



Are you saying that appointing two political nutcases to head the Department of Homeland Security and FEMA was an act born out of a squeaky clean federal Administration?

I'd love to know more about the lack of corruptness in the government of neighboring Mississippi, for example, which failed to provide any means of evacuation to many of its residents.


----------



## clemson357 (Sep 26, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I hope you have lots of connections and family that have been in Law for a few decades....Lawyers are a dime a dozen and most don't make more than a middle class *salary*.
> One of the worst choices you could make, unless your connected or a prodigy......and its clear by the mediocrity of your posts you're not




again, talking out of your ass....


if you get bored, you can do some research into the demand for IP lawyers.  I'm tired of spelling things out for you.  Especially when all you are interested in doing is insulting people who don't agree with your opinions.


----------



## GFR (Sep 26, 2005)

clemson357 said:
			
		

> again, talking out of your ass....
> 
> 
> if you get bored, you can do some research into the demand for IP lawyers.  I'm tired of spelling things out for you.  Especially when all you are interested in doing is insulting people who don't agree with your opinions.


Dream on 35K, you are doomed to the middle class at best......when you get that Law degree and are making 150K Plus let me know


----------



## clemson357 (Sep 26, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Dream on 35K, you are doomed to the middle class at best......when you get that Law degree and are making 150K Plus let me know



yeah, you can definitely discern that from the minimal interaction you have had with me....

of course, you didn't address the substance of the post.  care to look into the demand for IP lawyers?  I doubt it.  You are content with what you think you know.


----------



## clemson357 (Sep 26, 2005)

or maybe you will just come up with more lame insults.....


----------



## GFR (Sep 26, 2005)

clemson357 said:
			
		

> or maybe you will just come up with more lame insults.....


I hope you have lots of connections and family that have been in Law for a few decades....Lawyers are a dime a dozen and most don't make more than a middle class salary.
One of the worst choices you could make, unless your connected or a prodigy......and its clear by the mediocrity of your posts you're not


----------



## wetnwild (Nov 12, 2005)

The End!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## GFR (Nov 12, 2005)

wetnwild said:
			
		

> The End!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Tell us about your bush


----------



## BigDyl (Nov 12, 2005)

http://www.dailykos.com/


----------



## wetnwild (Nov 12, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Tell us about your bush




iT'S PRETTY hairy, I know that's what you like so i have been letting it 
grow out.


----------



## GFR (Nov 12, 2005)

wetnwild said:
			
		

> iT'S PRETTY hairy, I know that's what you like so i have been letting it
> grow out.


----------



## wetnwild (Nov 12, 2005)

:bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:


----------



## BigDyl (Nov 12, 2005)

wetnwild said:
			
		

> :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:




It's Vioepe!


----------



## GFR (Nov 15, 2005)

http://www.wildnesswithin.com/worst.html


----------



## lnvanry (Nov 15, 2005)

oh  I see foreman...............This was the "real" list..


----------



## gococksDJS (Nov 15, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Very true I have several family members who practice law, but all of them were the top 1% of their class and have great connections.....most people do not...
> 100K is good money unless you live in L.A. New York city or such places. I have a buddy in LA who is a Lawyer and he usto say 100K is the poverty line in LA..


 This is not necessarily true. My uncle went to Michigan State, and wasn't in the top 1% of his class. He is now a judge sitting on the city council of Grand Rapids, Michigan, was a district-court judge and city commissioner. He's now in the running for Michigan Attornye General with 3 other candidates. And he is by no means middle class. He's actually considered one of the greatest threats to Mike Cox's reelection.


----------



## GFR (Nov 15, 2005)

gococksDJS said:
			
		

> This is not necessarily true. My uncle went to Michigan State, and wasn't in the top 1% of his class. He is now a judge sitting on the city council of Grand Rapids, Michigan, was a district-court judge and city commissioner. He's now in the running for Michigan Attornye General with 3 other candidates. And he is by no means middle class.


It depends on where you live but I define "middle class" as a single person making *less than *100K a year.....a couple 140K.....In LA this number would have to be higher.....150 singles and 200 couples income...


----------



## gococksDJS (Nov 15, 2005)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> It depends on where you live but I define "middle class" as a single person making *less than *100K a year.....a couple 140K.....In LA this number would have to be higher.....150 singles and 200 couples income...


 I actually have no idea how much he makes. I see him once a year or so at family gatherings. He was actually just down here for the Carolina/Florida game this past weekend and said it was good to get out of Michigan because he has to watch himself walk very lightly due to his campaign, but no one here knows who he is so it doesn't matter if he drinks a few brews and yells at a football game. But I personally do believe that having connections in law helps big time but not all the time. My roommate from two years ago graduated with a 4.0 and a very respectable LSAT score , but had never done an internship or held down a job for more than 2 months in his life, and was turned down by Tulane Law and his uncle sits on the undergraduation admissions board.


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

100 Facts and 1 Opinion The Non-Arguable Case Against the Bush Administration


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

1. The Bush Administration has spent more than $140 billion on a war of choice in Iraq.

Source: American Progress


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

2. The Bush Administration sent troops into battle without adequate body armor or armored Humvees.

Sources: Fox News, The Boston Globe


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

3. The Bush Administration ignored estimates from Gen. Eric Shinseki that several hundred thousand troops would be required to secure Iraq.

Source: PBS


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

4. Vice President Cheney said Americans "will, in fact, be greeted as liberators" in Iraq.

Source: The Washington Post


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

5. During the Bush Administration's war in Iraq, more than 1,000 US troops have lost their lives and more than 7,000 have been injured.

Source: globalsecurity.org


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

6. In May 2003, President Bush landed on an aircraft carrier in a flight suit, stood under a banner proclaiming "Mission Accomplished," and triumphantly announced that major combat operations were over in Iraq. Asked if he had any regrets about the stunt, Bush said he would do it all over again.

Source: Yahoo News


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

7. Vice President Cheney said that Iraq was "the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault for many years, but most especially on 9/11." The bipartisan 9/11 Commission found that Iraq had no involvement in the 9/11 attacks and no collaborative operational relationship with Al Qaeda.

Source: MSNBC , 9-11 Commission


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

8. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice said that high-strength aluminum tubes acquired by Iraq were "only really suited for nuclear weapons programs," warning "we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud." The government's top nuclear scientists had told the Administration the tubes were "too narrow, too heavy, too long" to be of use in developing nuclear weapons and could be used for other purposes.

Source: New York Times


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

9. The Bush Administration has spent just $1.1 billion of the $18.4 billion Congress approved for Iraqi reconstruction.

Source: USA Today


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

10. According to the Administration's handpicked weapon's inspector, Charles Duelfer, there is "no evidence that Hussein had passed illicit weapons material to al Qaeda or other terrorist organizations, or had any intent to do so." After the release of the report, Bush continued to insist, "There was a risk--a real risk--that Saddam Hussein would pass weapons, or materials, or information to terrorist networks."

Sources: New York Times, White House news release


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

11. According to Duelfer, the UN inspections regime put an "economic strangle hold" on Hussein that prevented him from developing a WMD program for more than twelve years.

Source: Los Angeles Times


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

TERRORISM


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

12. After receiving a memo from the CIA in August 2001 titled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack America," President Bush continued his monthlong vacation.

Source: CNN.com


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

13. The Bush Administration failed to commit enough troops to capture Osama bin Laden when US forces had him cornered in the Tora Bora region of Afghanistan in November 2001. Instead, they relied on local warlords.

Source: csmonitor.com


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

14. The Bush Administration secured less nuclear material from sites around the world vulnerable to terrorists in the two years after 9/11 than were secured in the two years before 9/11.

Source: nti.org


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

15. The Bush Administration underfunded Nunn-Lugar--the program intended to keep the former Soviet Union's nuclear legacy out of the hands of terrorists and rogue states--by $45.5 million.

Source: armscontrol.org


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

16. The Bush Administration has assigned five times as many agents to investigate Cuban embargo violations as it has to track Osama bin Laden's and Saddam Hussein's money.

Source: Associated Press


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

17. According to Congressional Research Service data, the Bush Administration has underfunded security at the nation's ports by more than $1 billion for fiscal year 2005.

Source: American Progress


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

18. The Bush Administration did not devote the resources necessary to prevent a resurgence in the production of poppies, the raw material used to create heroin, in Afghanistan--creating a potent new source of financing for terrorists.

Source: Pakistan Tribune


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

19. Vice President Cheney told voters that unless they elect George Bush in November, "we'll get hit again" by terrorists.

Source: Washington Post


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

20. Even though an Al Qaeda training manual suggests terrorists come to the United States and buy assault weapons, the Bush Administration did nothing to prevent the expiration of the ban.

Source: sfgate.com


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

21. Despite repeated calls for reinforcements, there are fewer experienced CIA agents assigned to the unit dealing with Osama bin Laden now than there were before 9/11.

Source: New York Times


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

22. Before 9/11, John Ashcroft proposed slashing counterterrorism funding by 23 percent.

Source: americanprogress.org


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

23. Between January 20, 2001, and September 10, 2001, the Bush Administration publicly mentioned Al Qaeda one time.

Source: commondreams.org


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

24. The Bush Administration granted the 9/11 Commission $3 million to investigate the September 11 attacks and $50 million to the commission that investigated the Columbia space shuttle crash.

Source: commondreams.org


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

25. More than three years after 9/11, just 5 percent of all cargo--including cargo transported on passenger planes--is screened.

Source: commondreams.org


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

NATIONAL SECURITY


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

26. During the Bush Administration, North Korea quadrupled its suspected nuclear arsenal from two to eight weapons.

Source: New York Times


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

27. The Bush Administration has openly opposed the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, undermining nuclear nonproliferation efforts.

Source: commondreams.org


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

28. The Bush Administration has spent $7 billion this year--and plans to spend $10 billion next year--for a missile defense system that has never worked in a test that wasn't rigged.

Sources: www.gao.gov/new.items/d04409.pdf, Los Angeles Times


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

29. The Bush Administration underfunded the needs of the nation's first responders by $98 billion, according to a Council on Foreign Relations study.

Source: nationaldefensemagazine.org


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

CRONYISM AND CORRUPTION


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

30. The Bush Administration awarded a multibillion-dollar no-bid contract to Halliburton--a company that still pays Vice President Cheney hundreds of thousands of dollars in deferred compensation each year (Cheney also has Halliburton stock options). The company then repeatedly overcharged the military for services, accepted kickbacks from subcontractors and served troops dirty food.

Sources: The Washington Post, The Tapei Times, BBC News


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

31. The Bush Administration told Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan about plans to go to war with Iraq before telling Secretary of State Colin Powell.

Source: detnews.com


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

32. The Bush Administration relentlessly pushed an energy bill containing $23.5 billion in corporate tax breaks, much of which would have benefited major campaign contributors.

taxpayer.net, Washington Post


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

33. The Bush Administration paid Iraqi-exile and neocon darling Ahmad Chalabi $400,000 a month for intelligence, including fabricated claims about Iraqi WMD. It continued to pay him for months after discovering that he was providing inaccurate information.

Source: MSNBC


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

34. The Bush Administration installed as top officials more than 100 former lobbyists, attorneys or spokespeople for the industries they oversee.

Source: Source: commondreams.org


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

35. The Bush Administration let disgraced Enron CEO Ken Lay--a close friend of President Bush--help write its energy policy.

Source: MSNBC


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

36. Top Bush Administration officials accepted $127,600 in jewelry and other presents from the Saudi royal family in 2003, including diamond-and-sapphire jewelry valued at $95,500 for First Lady Laura Bush.

Source: Seattle Times


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

37. Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge awarded lucrative contracts to several companies in which he is an investor, including Microsoft, GE, Sprint, Pfizer and Oracle.

Source: cq.com


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

38. President Bush used images of firefighters carrying flag-draped coffins through the rubble of the World Trade Center to score political points in a campaign advertisement.

Source: The Washington Post


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

THE ECONOMY


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

39. President Bush's top economic adviser, Greg Mankiw, said the outsourcing of American jobs abroad was "a plus for the economy in the long run."

Source: CBS News


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

40. The Bush Administration turned a $236 billion surplus into a $422 billion deficit.

Sources: Fortune, dfw.com


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

41. The Bush Administration implemented regulations that made millions of workers ineligible for overtime pay.

Source: epinet.org


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

42. The Bush Administration has crippled state budgets by underfunding federal mandates by $175 billion.

Source: cbpp.org


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

43. President Bush is the first President since Herbert Hoover to have a net loss of jobs--around 800,000--over a four-year term.

Source: The Guardian


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

44. The Bush Administration gave Accenture a multibillion-dollar border control contract even though the company moved its operations to Bermuda to avoid paying taxes.

Sources: The New York Times, cantonrep.com


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

45. In 2000, candidate George W. Bush said "the vast majority of my tax cuts go to the bottom end of the spectrum." He passed the tax cuts, but the top 20 percent of earners received 68 percent of the benefits.

Sources: cbpp.org, vote-smart.org


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

46. In 2000, candidate George W. Bush promised to pay down the national debt to a historically low level. As of September 30, the national debt stood at $7,379,052,696,330.32, a record high.

Sources: www.georgewbush.com , Bureau of the Public Debt


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

47. As major corporate scandals rocked the nation's economy, the Bush Administration reduced the enforcement of corporate tax law--conducting fewer audits, imposing fewer penalties, pursuing fewer prosecutions and making virtually no effort to prosecute corporate tax crimes.

Source: iht.com


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

48. The Bush Administration increased tax audits for the working poor.

Source: theolympian.com


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

49. In 2000, candidate George W. Bush promised to protect the Social Security surplus. As President, he spent all of it.

Sources: georgewbush.com, Congressional Budget Office


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

50. The Bush Administration proposed slashing funding for the largest federal public housing program, putting 2 million families in danger of losing their housing.

Source: San Francisco Examiner


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

51. The Bush Administration did nothing to prevent the minimum wage from falling to an inflation-adjusted fifty-year low.

Source: Los Angeles Times


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

EDUCATION


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

52. The Bush Administration underfunded the No Child Left Behind Act by $9.4 billion.

Source: nwitimes.com


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

53. In 2000, candidate George W. Bush promised to increase the maximum federal scholarship, or Pell Grant, by 50 percent. Instead, each year he has been in office he has frozen or cut the maximum scholarship amount.

Source: Source: edworkforce.house.gov x


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

54. The Bush Administration's Secretary of Education, Rod Paige, called the National Education Association--a union of teachers--a "terrorist organization."

Sources: CNN.com


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

HEALTHCARE


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

55. The Bush Administration, in violation of the law, refused to allow Medicare actuary Richard Foster to tell members of Congress the actual cost of their Medicare bill. Instead, they repeated a figure they knew was $100 billion too low.

Source: Washington Post, realcities.com


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

56. The nonpartisan GAO concluded the Bush Administration created illegal, covert propaganda--in the form of fake news reports--to promote its industry-backed Medicare bill.

Source: General Accounting Office


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

57. The Bush Administration stunted research that could lead to new treatments for Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, diabetes, spinal injuries, heart disease and muscular dystrophy by placing severe restrictions on the use of federal dollars for embryonic stem-cell research.

Source: CBS News


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

58. The Bush Administration reinstated the "global gag rule," which requires foreign NGOs to withhold information about legal abortion services or lose US funds for family planning.

Source: healthsciences.columbia.edu


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

59. The Bush Administration authorized twenty companies that have been charged with fraud at the federal or state level to offer Medicare prescription drug cards to seniors.

Source: American Progress


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

60. The Bush Administration created a prescription drug card for Medicare that locks seniors into one card for up to a year but allows the corporations offering the cards to change their prices once a week.

Source: Washington Post


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

61. The Bush Administration blocked efforts to allow Medicare to negotiate cheaper prescription drug prices for seniors.

Source: American Progress


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

62. At the behest of the french fry industry, the Bush Administration USDA changed their definition of fresh vegetables to include frozen french fries.

Source: commondreams.org


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

63. In a case before the Supreme Court, the Bush Administrations sided with HMOs--arguing that patients shouldn't be allowed to sue HMOs when they are improperly denied treatment. With the Administration's help, the HMOs won.

Source: ABC News


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

64. The Bush Administration went to court to block lawsuits by patients who were injured by defective prescription drugs and medical devices.

Source: Washington Post


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

65. President Bush signed a Medicare law that allows companies that reduce healthcare benefits for retirees to receive substantial subsidies from the government.

Source: Bloomberg News


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

66. Since President Bush took office, more than 5 million people have lost their health insurance.

Source: CNN.com


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

67. The Bush Administration blocked a proposal to ban the use of arsenic-treated lumber in playground equipment, even though it conceded it posed a danger to children.

Source: Miami Herald


----------



## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

68. One day after President Bush bragged about his efforts to help seniors afford healthcare, the Administration announced the largest dollar increase of Medicare premiums in history.

Source: iht.com


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

69. The Bush Administration--at the behest of the tobacco industry--tried to water down a global treaty that aimed to help curb smoking.

Source: tobaccofreekids.org


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

70. The Bush Administration has spent $270 million on abstinence-only education programs even though there is no scientific evidence demonstrating that they are effective in dissuading teenagers from having sex or reducing the transmission of sexually transmitted diseases.

Source: salon.com


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

71. The Bush Administration slashed funding for programs that suggested ways, other than abstinence, to avoid sexually transmitted diseases.

Source: LA Weekly


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

ENVIRONMENT


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

72. The Bush Administration gutted clean-air standards for aging power plants, resulting in at least 20,000 premature deaths each year.

Source: cta.policy.net


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

73. The Bush Administration eliminated protections on more than 200 million acres of public lands.

Source: calwild.org


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

74. President Bush broke his promise to place limits on carbon dioxide emissions, an essential step in combating global warming.

Source: Washington Post


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

75.  Days after 9/11, the Bush Administration told people living near Ground Zero that the air was safe--even though they knew it wasn't--subjecting hundreds of people to unnecessary, debilitating ailments.

Sierra Club , EPA


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

76. The Bush Administration created a massive tax loophole for SUVs--allowing, for example, the write-off of the entire cost of a new Hummer.

Source: Washington Post


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

77. The Bush Administration put former coal-industry big shots in the government and let them roll back safety regulations, putting miners at greater risk of black lung disease.

Source: New York Times


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

78. The Bush Administration said that even though the weed killer atrazine was seeping into water supplies--creating, among other bizarre creatures, hermaphroditic frogs--there was no reason to regulate it.

Source: Washington Post


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

79. The Bush Administration has proposed cutting the budget of the Environmental Protection Agency by $600 million next year.

Source: ems.org


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

80. President Bush broke his campaign promise to end the maintenance backlog at national parks. He has provided just 7 percent of the funds needed, according to National Park Service estimates.

Source: bushgreenwatch.org


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

81. Since 9/11, Attorney General John Ashcroft has detained 5,000 foreign nationals in antiterrorism sweeps; none have been convicted of a terrorist crime.

Source: hrwatch.org


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

82. The Bush Administration ignored pleas from the International Committee of the Red Cross to stop the abuse of prisoners in US custody.

Source: Wall Street Journal


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

83. In violation of international law, the Bush Administration hid prisoners from the Red Cross so the organization couldn't monitor their treatment.

Source: hrwatch.org


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

84. The Bush Administration, without ever charging him with a crime, arrested US citizen José Padilla at an airport in Chicago, held him on a naval brig in South Carolina for two years, denied him access to a lawyer and prohibited any contact with his friends and family.

Source: news.findlaw.com


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

85. President Bush's top legal adviser wrote a memo to the President advising him that he can legally authorize torture.

Source: news.findlaw.com


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

86. At the direction of Bush Administration officials, the FBI went door to door questioning people planning on protesting at the 2004 political conventions.

Source: New York Times


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

87. The Bush Administration refuses to support the creation of an independent commission to investigate the abuse of foreign prisoners in American custody. Instead, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld selected the members of a commission to review the conduct of his own department.

Source: humanrightsfirst.org


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

*flip Flops*


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

88. President Bush opposed the creation of the 9/11 Commission before he supported it, delaying an essential inquiry into one of the greatest intelligence failure in American history.

Source: americanprogressaction.org


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

89. President Bush said gay marriage was a state issue before he supported a constitutional amendment banning it.

Sources: CNN.com, White House


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

90. President Bush said he was committed to capturing Osama bin Laden "dead or alive" before he said, "I truly am not that concerned about him."

Source: americanprogressaction.org


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

91. President Bush said we had found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, before he admitted we hadn't found them.

Sources: White House, americanprogress.org


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

92. President Bush said, "You can't distinguish between Al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror," before he admitted Saddam had no role in 9/11.

Sources: White House, Washington Post


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

*BIOGRAPHY*


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

93. George Bush didn't come close to meeting his commitments to the National Guard. Records show he performed no service in a six-month period in 1972 and a three-month period in 1973.

Source: boston.com


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

94. In June 1990 George Bush violated federal securities law when he failed to inform the SEC that he had sold 200,000 shares of his company, Harken Energy. Two months later the company reported significant losses and by the end of that year the stock had dropped from $3 to $1.

Source: The Guardian


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

95. When asked at an April 2004 press conference to name a mistake he made during his presidency, Bush couldn't think of one.

Source: White House


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

SECRECY


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

96. The Bush Administration refuses to release twenty-seven pages of a Congressional report that reportedly detail the Saudi Arabian government's connections to the 9/11 hijackers.

Source: Philadelphia Inquirer


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

97. Last year the Bush Administration spent $6.5 billion creating 14 million new classified documents and securing old secrets--the highest level of spending in ten years.

Source: openthegovernment.org


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

98. The Bush Administration spent $120 classifying documents for every $1 it spent declassifying documents.

Source: openthegovernment.org


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

99. The Bush Administration has spent millions of dollars and defied numerous court orders to conceal from the public who participated in Vice President Cheney's 2001 energy task force.

Source: Washington Post


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

100. The Bush Administration--reversing years of bipartisan tradition--refuses to answer requests from Democratic members of Congress about how the White House is spending taxpayer money.

Source: Washington Post


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)

OPINION

*If the past informs the future, four more years of the Bush Administration will be a tragic period in the history of the United States and the world. *


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## GFR (Nov 18, 2005)




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