# excess protein calories stored as fat??



## SheLifts (Jan 31, 2007)

i have someone telling me that excess calories from protein are not stored as body fat. 

it's still excess calories. and excess calories are stored as body fat.

can someone give me a few good links to help me with evidence?


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## tucker01 (Jan 31, 2007)

So basically lets assume I eat only protein all day. 

Lets just say I eat 800 g of protein which works out to about 3200 cals.  

Lets assume that this is over my BMR, so the excess cals will just disappear and I won't get fat


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## SheLifts (Jan 31, 2007)

that's what the other guy is saying. 

i still say excess calories = fat gain.


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## tucker01 (Jan 31, 2007)

Right, that is the basic concept Cals in vs Cals out.  They don't just magically disappear.


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## SheLifts (Jan 31, 2007)

thank you.


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## BigDyl (Jan 31, 2007)

I'm pretty sure you piss out excess protein and it is not stored as fat.


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## tucker01 (Jan 31, 2007)

BigDyl said:


> I'm pretty sure you piss out excess protein and it is not stored as fat.



I can never tell whether you are being sarcastic or not.

If not I would like to see a source that states that.

Protein when digested is broken down into peptides and then amino acids.  What isn't used is then converted by the body to either Glucose or Fat.  If it isn't used up it is stored in the fat cells. 

Some calories are expended during this process, and it isn't that efficient, but the body finds way to use the macros, that are consumed.


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## Mango (Jan 31, 2007)

Leave it to a Canadian to clear it up. 

SheLifts, is he worth convincing??


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## Valias (Feb 1, 2007)

In excess the nitrogens are removed and urinated out then the liver can turn it into glycogen and fat from there or what ever. it's been too long since i've read about that - of course it can be stored as fat heh.


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## SheLifts (Feb 1, 2007)

Mango said:


> SheLifts, is he worth convincing??



i'm the moderator of the health and fitness section at this particular forum. i think it bothered me that he would try to tell me that i was wrong. 
maybe it's an ego/pride thing and i wanted to makes sure i was right and he was wrong....


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## fufu (Feb 1, 2007)

Or -

if you are training your muscles with a fair amount of intensity it can be stored as muscle.


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## Jodi (Feb 1, 2007)

She is completely wrong!  Excess protein turns to glucose and too much glucose will be stored as fat.  It's called gluconeogenesis.  It mimics insulin.  Now if you are on a low carb diet, this won't really do too much other than produce glucose that your body doesn't have.  However, if you are not on a low carb diet (50-75G carbs per day) then this converted glucose will be treated like the rest of it in your body and if you spill over your storage levels, it will get turned into fat.


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## Luke95 (Feb 1, 2007)

Valias said:


> In excess the nitrogens are removed and urinated out then the liver can turn it into glycogen and fat from there or what ever. it's been too long since i've read about that - of course it can be stored as fat heh.



I'm in 100% agreement here.  

Also, the keytone byproducts of de-amination will put added stress on your liver.  Glucocorticoid levels will rise as a result (causing an increased insulin resistance)  This added stress will actually make fat storage more favorable than normal as well as hamper your ability to digest properly.  The later, mostly only under more extreme or prolonged cases.  Prolonged elevated corticoid levels (as well as short term High levels) divert blood flow from the digestive organs.


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## Cardinal (Feb 1, 2007)

From what I understand, most people tend to eat a mixed diet with at least a little of each macro.  In a caloric surplus, ingested fat tends to be stored first I think because it is already in an immediately storable form.  Protein will be the least likely to be stored since it has to be converted to cho and then to fat as noted above.

Additionally, that conversion tends to be energy expensive and inefficient. Unless someone has come up with new info, protein is still ~15-25% thermic with cho being more like 10 and fat barely any (1-2% thermic or so).  So it is tougher to get to a caloric surplus using protein only.

As a practical matter, I find that very high protein diets with moderate carbs make bulking nicer for me.  Water retention isn't a big problem which makes tracking gains easier.  OTOH, past a certain point, consuming massive amount of protein may produce some excess stress on the body and can be viewed as a costly cho source by many.  To each their own.


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## Luke95 (Feb 1, 2007)

Cardinal said:


> Additionally, that conversion tends to be energy expensive and inefficient. Unless someone has come up with new info, protein is still ~*15-25%* thermic with cho being more like *10* and fat barely any *(1-2% thermic or so)*.  So it is tougher to get to a caloric surplus using protein only.





The energy balances for breaking down these macromolecules are directly related to the stresses they cause on your body.  

These factors should scream to you that the 'maintenance' energies required are NOT on a linear scale.  The more stress on the body from external sources, the highly the standard levels of catabolism for that individual.  The higher the level of natural catabolism, the lower the required level of maintanace Kcals from an external source_(dietary consumption)_. 

This is all a factor of efficiencies in an individual's metabolic pathways.  This is exactly why somebody should never adopt another person's diet because it works for 'them'.

For all of these reasons, it is illogical to suggest that energy from one specific macromolecule would be better than another.


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## runlift22 (Feb 2, 2007)

what do you all suggest for me:
I am 100 pound female, bulking.  I currently get 50 grams fats, 220 grams carbs, and 260 grams protein each day.  But I need to up my calories and I don't know where to add.  I feel that adding protein is the "safest" since it is lest likely to be stores as fats... but I already get a lot of protein for my size.  So do I up the protein, fat, or carbs?  what is safest in terms of clean bulking?  Everyone seems to say "carbs make you fat", but are they more easily stored as fat in a caloric surplus than straight up fat?


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## Double D (Feb 3, 2007)

Jodi said:


> She is completely wrong!  Excess protein turns to glucose and too much glucose will be stored as fat.  It's called gluconeogenesis.  It mimics insulin.  Now if you are on a low carb diet, this won't really do too much other than produce glucose that your body doesn't have.  However, if you are not on a low carb diet (50-75G carbs per day) then this converted glucose will be treated like the rest of it in your body and if you spill over your storage levels, it will get turned into fat.




Well I was going to make this comment on it because I remember you getting on my case about it 

But hey atleast I knew what I was talking about this time.


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## runlift22 (Feb 3, 2007)

bump- can anyone answer me question? I'd really appreciate your opinions/advice... thank you!


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## P-funk (Feb 3, 2007)

you are 100lbs and you eat 260g of protein!!!!  I think you need to go back to the drawing board and restructure your diet!


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## runlift22 (Feb 3, 2007)

well I need calories and I'm not going to take in like 500 grams carbs!  Do you have any suggestions?


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## ABCs (Feb 3, 2007)

runlift22, sorry if you've posted this before, but what's your diet look like? Maybe we can help you further if you give us more to work with.


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## AKIRA (Feb 3, 2007)

P-funk said:


> you are 100lbs and you eat 260g of protein!!!!  I think you need to go back to the drawing board and restructure your diet!



That sounded like extreme overkill to me too, but I really want to know the answer as well.


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## runlift22 (Feb 3, 2007)

wake up
6:00 a.m. Scoop of whey, tablespoon PB
30-40 min low intensity cardio- sip on BCAA's- (4 scoops Xtend 20 g protein)
7:00 am- 6 egg whites, 1 whole egg
             1 cup no sugar soy milk, 1/2 cup oatmeal, one serving fruit,fish oils
10:00 am- scoop of sustain protein, tablespoon peanut butter (in class)
1:00 p.m.- same as breakfast but instead of fruit, 4 servings broccoli
3:00 workout- sip on 2 scoops Xtend (10 g protein), 1/2 scoop whey (12 g protein) 
4:30 post workout- 2 scoops Xtend (10 g protein), 1/2 scoop whey (12 g protein), 30 grams dextrose or waxy maize starch, 5 g glutamine
5:30- either oats or 2 slices ezekiel bread or a sweet potato or brown rice
        glass of skim milk + tuna fish or 4-5 oz chicken 
8:30- 1.75 cups 0% greek yogurt (33 g protein), fish oils, almonds, HUGE salad of mixed greens with cucumber and tomato.

its about 230 grams protein from whey/egg whites/BCAA's/meat/milk and the rest is from peanut butter, almonds,soy milk, oats (minimal), and veggies (minimal)


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## AKIRA (Feb 3, 2007)

Tell you the truth, I just want to know the answer by just the numbers.

Even if your diet sucks or doesnt, this is a good question.


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## Luke95 (Feb 3, 2007)

AKIRA said:


> Even if your diet sucks or doesnt, this is a good question.




The answer is yes.  In metabolism, there is no such thing as "excess".  There is what you *use*.... and what you *store*.

"what goes up, must come down"
"in equals out"
"No free lunch"

ect ect ect.


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## runlift22 (Feb 4, 2007)

can someone comment on my diet/make suggestions.  Am I taking in too much protein?  Should I increase my fats or carbs first?  What is less likely to be stored?


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## Witchblade (Feb 4, 2007)

Way too much carbs. Check the stickies. You only need 100-150g of protein. Get the rest from carbs and fats. You're being paranoid about carbs and fats, you need them just as much as you need protein.


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## fitsandy (Dec 4, 2008)

*Excess Protein Turns To Fat*

Everyone knows that overeating leads to excess weight. This concept comes in many flavors these days, though. Some people think that carbohydrates are the culprit. Others think it's sugar. Some people think that eating lots of protein couldn't possibly make them gain weight. Hmmm . . . 

The only way to determine the answer to this enigma is to go inside the human body and take a look at how fat gets there in the first place. Let's follow a bite of pepperoni pizza and see what happens to its sugar, fat and protein. Open wide! 

The food enters your mouth: 

Saliva contains enzymes that break any starch in the food down to sugar. 

This, along with any fat and water in the food, travel to the stomach, which churns them up. 

Pepsin (an enzyme that digests protein) and hydrochloric acid further break down the food, turning it into a substance called chyme. 

The mixture enters the duodenum, (the place where the gall bladder secretes its bile). 

This bile dissolves the fat in water, thinning it out and making it easier to absorb. 

Enzymes from the pancreas enter the duodenum and further break down the sugar, fat and protein. 
Now everything is dissolved and is in fluid form, so it is absorbed through the lining of the small bowel. Fat, sugar and protein wave good-bye to each other and go their separate ways. 

What happens to the sugar: 

It also goes directly into the blood stream, and several different organs take the sugar they need as it passes by. 

Some is stored in the liver as glycogen. 

Whatever is left is converted to fat and stored in fat cells with the excess fat above. 

What happens to the fat: 

First, it goes into the blood stream and travels to the liver 

The liver burns some of the fat, converts some to other substances (one is cholesterol) and sends the rest to fat cells, where they wait until they are needed. 

What happens to the protein: 

It is broken down into building blocks known as peptides. 

Then, it is further broken down and it becomes amino acids. 

The amino acids are absorbed through the small intestine's lining and enter the blood stream. 

From here, some of the amino acids build the body's protein stores. 

Excess amino acids are converted to fats and sugars and follow the paths described above. 

 This is such a simple concept, but many people still believe that consuming lots and lots of protein will put muscle on their bones. Don't be fooled by this notion! Even excess protein turns to fat. 
Here is a picturesque illustration of the real cause of weight gain. Eating too much food! Dietary fat is obviously the substance most often stored as fat in the end, but no matter what you eat, your body takes whatever it can't use and sends it to fat cells. If you don't burn it off or expel it, it hangs around in your fat cells, no matter what it consists of.


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## GOtriSports (Dec 4, 2008)

fitsandy said:


> Everyone knows that overeating leads to excess weight. This concept comes in many flavors these days, though. Some people think that carbohydrates are the culprit. Others think it's sugar. Some people think that eating lots of protein couldn't possibly make them gain weight. Hmmm . . .
> 
> The only way to determine the answer to this enigma is to go inside the human body and take a look at how fat gets there in the first place. Let's follow a bite of pepperoni pizza and see what happens to its sugar, fat and protein. Open wide!
> 
> ...




almost a 2 year old thread bumped? yay


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## Will Brink (Dec 4, 2008)

SheLifts said:


> i have someone telling me that excess calories from protein are not stored as body fat.
> 
> it's still excess calories. and excess calories are stored as body fat.
> 
> can someone give me a few good links to help me with evidence?



Not stored at fat? That's wrong. However, protein is the *least* likely to be stored as at of the three macro nutrients from a thermic and hormonal perspective. 

Two articles that may put it in perspective:

Nutritional Myths that Just Won't Die:

Nutritional Myths that Just Won't Die

Brink's Unified Theory of Nutrition:

A Unified Theory of Nutrition


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## Merkaba (Dec 4, 2008)

whats up? Is it bump old shitty threads day or somethin?


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## Built (Jul 4, 2009)

Trevordean said:
			
		

> Hi, I'm a PT. Here is some stuff from the NASM Personal Training study book. Your body has a constant need for energy and ALL calories above that are stored as fat. You need 50-70% Carbs to fuel the body. You need 15-30% Protein to repair tissue. You need 10-30% Poly or Monounsaturated fat for transporting vitamins A,D,E and K.
> 
> It takes 23% of the calories in carbs to store the carbs as fat. It only takes 3% of the calories in fat to store it as fat. More than 30% protein leads to heart disease, and cancer because of higher intake of saturated fat and low intake of fiber.
> 
> You need 6 lbs. (96oz) of water per day. Consume carbs/pro/fat/water in every meal to keep the engine running smooth.



Ah, a certified trainer has arrived in the nick of time to tell me I need more carbohydrate and less protein! Excellent. I'll just go back to being hungry all the time.


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## zedg (Jul 4, 2009)

u r an  idiot


BigDyl said:


> I'm pretty sure you piss out excess protein and it is not stored as fat.


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## juggernaut (Jul 4, 2009)

Built said:


> Ah, a certified trainer has arrived in the nick of time to tell me I need more carbohydrate and less protein! Excellent. I'll just go back to being hungry all the time.


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## robbins99 (Jul 4, 2009)

*Protein Stores as Fat*

An excess caloric intake of anything (even lean protein will eventually store as fat if your calories are exceeding daily recommended total.
ie...you should be eating 2000 calories a day but you're consuming 3000 (even if the extra 1000 is skinless white meat broiled chicken breast).


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## Merkaba (Jul 6, 2009)

lol...too late on the delete Trevordean.  haha....

You've proven your lack of reasonable knowledge.  You don't get to take it back.


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## sarahyeohkm (Sep 26, 2009)

robbins99 said:


> An excess caloric intake of anything (even lean protein will eventually store as fat if your calories are exceeding daily recommended total.
> ie...you should be eating 2000 calories a day but you're consuming 3000 (even if the extra 1000 is skinless white meat broiled chicken breast).


but i thought the cells in protein were made up of cellulose so it cannot be absorbed by the body


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## Built (Sep 27, 2009)

sarahyeohkm said:


> but i thought the cells in protein were made up of cellulose so it cannot be absorbed by the body



The cells in protein? Protein has cells?


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## Marat (Sep 27, 2009)

sarahyeohkm said:


> but i thought the cells in protein were made up of cellulose so it cannot be absorbed by the body



Not sure how you came to this conclusion. However, I highly recommend looking up the terms: "cell", "protein" and "cellulose". 

Once you are familiar with those terms, I think you will understand why your statement doesn't make any sense.


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## Merkaba (Sep 28, 2009)

....doh!


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## Will Brink (Sep 29, 2009)

sarahyeohkm said:


> but i thought the cells in protein were made up of cellulose so it cannot be absorbed by the body



What's the weather like on your planet?


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## Merkaba (Sep 29, 2009)

lol....Dude/chick has to be like 13 and currently in biology class...just kinda getting confused with vegetable life.


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## Pirate! (Sep 29, 2009)

This thread is a black hole.


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## Will Brink (Sep 29, 2009)

Pirate! said:


> This thread is a black hole.



Racist!


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## blueiso (Jul 23, 2010)

Luke95 said:


> The answer is yes.  In metabolism, there is no such thing as "excess".  There is what you *use*.... and what you *store*.
> 
> "what goes up, must come down"
> "in equals out"
> ...



Allright, this is my first post here because I want an answer. If there is no such thing as excess, then explain this to me:

From Protein (nutrient) - Wikipedia, in the Excess Consumption chapter (cannot post links since I'm new).


> The body is unable to store excess protein. Protein is digested into amino acids which enter the bloodstream. Excess amino acids are converted to other usable molecules by the liver in a process called deamination. Deamination converts nitrogen from the amino acid into ammonia which is converted by the liver into urea in the urea cycle. Excretion of urea is performed by the kidneys. These organs can normally cope with any extra workload but if kidney disease occurs, a decrease in protein will often be prescribed.



So it seems that BigDyl is right and excess protein is pissed out.

I think that gluconeogenesis happens when the body needs energy. It won't start gluconeogenesising stuff for fun. And even then, if there is glycogen, it won't even touch protein. It that way, excess protein is not used and not gluconeogenesised.

I'd really like to have a definite answer about that or a rebuttal of what wikipedia is saying.


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## blueiso (Jul 23, 2010)

Ok, I think that I understand now. Amino acids are used for repair or converted to nitrogen and carbon skeletons. The carbon skeletons are then used as energy (ATP) or stored as fat via gluconeogenesis. 

Google PROTEIN METABOLISM and pick the unisanet result for the reference (can't post links).

I think that wiki article sucks.


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## blueiso (Jul 25, 2010)

I finally got the answer from Lyle McDonald. Excess protein is NOT stored as fat.

The fact that I can't post links is pretty annoying. 
Google "Excess Protein and Fat Storage" and get to the bodyrecomposition website.



> while the biochemical pathways for the conversion of protein to fat do exist in humans, the likelihood of it ever happening in any but the most absurdly non-physiological circumstances are effectively nil


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