# Most effective/important supplement



## Arnold (Oct 22, 2001)

?


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## gopro (Oct 23, 2001)

Hmmmm Prince..important for what? This is a more complex question than meets the eye!


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## I Are Baboon (Oct 23, 2001)

To ME, whey protein is the most important for building muscle (protein in general, not just whey protein).  

I also like my creatine and mulit-vitamin.  And my coffee, but that's not really a supplement.


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## Arnold (Oct 23, 2001)

important/effective for bodybuilding.


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## ac (Oct 23, 2001)

for me it has to be multi-vits and antioxidants cause i'm always getting colds.


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## Arnold (Nov 3, 2001)

If you have not voted, VOTE!


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## gopro (Nov 11, 2001)

Well...I believe that protein is the most important, but not necessarily whey alone. You did not mention glutamine and I rank that right near the top. Creatine is wonderful when used correctly. Some prohormones are of use, but not necessary. ZMA I feel is a waste for all but a few. Multivitamins are a good insurance policy in that most people, including bodybuilders don't eat a wide enough variety of foods to get all their micronutrients and anti-oxidants( which in of itself is another important supplement). Thermogenics also have their place in a cutting phase as do some other herbs.

No supp can replace proper diet, training, and resting procedures!


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## Arnold (Nov 11, 2001)

ah crap, I knew I forgot one! 

I'll go add it now!


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## gopro (Nov 12, 2001)

Thank your lucky stars you have me around Prince!!! LOL...


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## Arnold (Nov 15, 2001)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Thank your lucky stars you have me around Prince!!! LOL...


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## Pemburu (Jan 9, 2002)

Since you bumped this back up to the top, I'll vote. I only use Whey, Creatine, and take a multi.  For the order of importance I would probably say Whey, Multi and Creatine for my supps.


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## Rick C (Jan 10, 2002)

Whey protein is a must, creatine is optional


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## gopro (Jan 11, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Rick C *_
> Whey protein is a must, creatine is optional



Guys and gals...you must remember that whey is great but has its limitations. It has a very high BV, but is oxidized too quickly to be a stand alone protein with the exception of post workout(where it is the most valuable). In fact, if I had only one choice between whey and a good casein, I'd go with the casein!


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## Pemburu (Jan 11, 2002)

> *Originally posted by gopro*
> 
> 
> Guys and gals...you must remember that whey is great but has its limitations. It has a very high BV, but is oxidized too quickly to be a stand alone protein with the exception of post workout(where it is the most valuable). In fact, if I had only one choice between whey and a good casein, I'd go with the casein!



True, but it's only a supplement. I eat lots of red meat,  tuna (daily),  don't lose your stomach, chicken, and high protein veggies as often as possible. From the standpoint of someone, an everyday Joe, taking something additional, Isn't whey the easiest, best bang for the buck??  For someone who is going Pro or competes I'm sure this list would be all mixed up and varied throughout the year.  I don't think anyone here thinks it (whey) is the miracle pill.   Nothing beats good quality food. 

This is not to argue against your expert advice, but some  of us aren't even in the same league as you are.  

OCICBW
JC


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## gopro (Jan 13, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Pemburu *_
> 
> 
> True, but it's only a supplement. I eat lots of red meat,  tuna (daily),  don't lose your stomach, chicken, and high protein veggies as often as possible. From the standpoint of someone, an everyday Joe, taking something additional, Isn't whey the easiest, best bang for the buck??  For someone who is going Pro or competes I'm sure this list would be all mixed up and varied throughout the year.  I don't think anyone here thinks it (whey) is the miracle pill.   Nothing beats good quality food.
> ...



As you allude to, yes, food is the most important....

As for the whey thing...this applies to everyone, not just advanced lifters or competitors. If you will be using a protein powder or MRP several times per day, you are better off with a BLEND of proteins, rather than a straight whey! If you use a powder right after your workout, stick with whey alone....but at all other times, a blended protein will be more effective for muscle gain!


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## Tank316 (Jan 14, 2002)

after having this dicussion with gopro about blended protiens i went back to the blened kind i was using.i have noticed  a smaller change in recovery time.when the Whey craze hit i swithed to it just like everybody else did.i think each type has there place throught the day though,so i'm sticking to both....


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## Pemburu (Jan 14, 2002)

I only use straight whey post workout.  The rest of the time it's food proteins or if I don't feel I'm getting enough protein from the food I'll have a little whey in a glass of milk with it.  

Tank, what blend are you using, if you don't mind me asking??  I haven't researched that area much past the protein factory blends. Most of the premix in the tub types appear to be various forms of whey, with a little egg or so added.  ie. Pro Complex.

jc


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## Tank316 (Jan 14, 2002)

i had been an opti fan for years there stuff was pretty good,thats what i went back to,pro complex and their whey,good stuff


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## gmer2695 (Jan 18, 2002)

Whey has to be the most important to me with multi/vit being a close second. I try to get most of my protien from food and use whey for post workout recovery.


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## SteveDeBeave (Jan 22, 2002)

Godda have my Opitimum Whey post workout.  

When cutting I give my ECA stack second runner up!  That's a supplement too, right?


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## kuso (Jan 22, 2002)

For me I would say:-

Glutamine
Blend protien
Whey
BCAA`s
Creatine
Multi
Anti Ox
B complex
EFA`s


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## gopro (Jan 23, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> For me I would say:-
> 
> Glutamine
> ...



Solid list


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## Hogi Bear (Jan 28, 2002)

*Most important supplement*

None of the above
The most important supplement that anyone can use is the mos t abundant on the face of the Earth that supplement you wont find advertised in your favorite magazine .
The most important supplement is Water good ole water just turn the tap on thats right the tap dont waste your money on bottled water thats a maajor scam bottled water, There are studies out that bottled watyer is no bettert than tap water, Also there ias a whole lot of deceptive advertising because they usually say spring water when in actuality it was bottled right from the tap.
Water drink up My Dad was right he always told me to drink my water .  I drink at leat a gallon a day.  Its great for losing weight.
Also if your taking in alot of protein powder you can really fuck up your kidneys and overall health without drinking adequate amounts of H2o
So there you are Prince here is my vote for the most effective bodybuilding supplement
Oh yeah i never went into the health benefits go ahead and do your own research or better yet start drinking water today CHEERS


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## kuso (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: Most important supplement*



> _*Originally posted by Clint hogan *_
> None of the above
> The most important supplement that anyone can use is the mos t abundant on the face of the Earth that supplement you wont find advertised in your favorite magazine .
> The most important supplement is Water good ole water just turn the tap on thats right the tap dont waste your money on bottled water thats a maajor scam bottled water, There are studies out that bottled watyer is no bettert than tap water, Also there ias a whole lot of deceptive advertising because they usually say spring water when in actuality it was bottled right from the tap.
> ...



Don`t want to sound like am a$$hole..........but I will. 

The question was "Most effective/important supplement"

I don`t think water is a supp, and I think most here realize that they have to drink A LOT of it.........................it`s the same as saying food. Of course food is MUCH better than supps, but many times it is unreasonable, or impossible to get the amount you need..........therefor SUPPS have there place, at the end of the chain.


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## DRLICKALOTUS (Jan 29, 2002)

*PROTEIN*

i THINK ITS ACCORDING TO WHAT YOUR WANTING, BUT MORE PROTEIN NEVER HURT ANYBODY.


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## rks1969 (Feb 10, 2002)

Every one has there own preference for supplements because we have so many different goals .I think mixed proteins are best pre or post training & before bed.Creatine & glutamine can be added at anytime as well as a good vit/min supplement (I use ANIMAL PAKS). prohormones gave me good results , I tried the Muscletech line.


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## Arnold (Feb 13, 2002)

I think the results of this poll are pretty strong....Whey Protein and Creatine are the top 2 supplements.

And I would have to agree.


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## gopro (Feb 16, 2002)

Glutamine, in my opinion, should top the whole list!


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## Stickboy (Feb 16, 2002)

I haven't taken any supps, but am considering it.  Quick question, do any of them interfere with prescription medicines?  That's the main thing that has prevented me from talking them.  Not sure how it's gonna react with my allergy medicine.

(I'll ask my doc to be sure, just wondering if anyone knew of any that "might")


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## gopro (Feb 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Stickboy *_
> I haven't taken any supps, but am considering it.  Quick question, do any of them interfere with prescription medicines?  That's the main thing that has prevented me from talking them.  Not sure how it's gonna react with my allergy medicine.
> 
> (I'll ask my doc to be sure, just wondering if anyone knew of any that "might")



Certain one's can...like thermogenic supplements, stimulants, and certain herbs. Others like vitamins, proteins, creatine, glutamine, ZMA, and most other's are fine. Always check with your doc first and/or read labels for contraindictions.


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## Arnold (Feb 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Glutamine, in my opinion, should top the whole list!



Above whey & creatine?


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## gopro (Feb 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> 
> 
> Above whey & creatine?



YUP!


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## Rob_NC (Feb 18, 2002)

Hey GP,  don't you get enough Glutamine with your protein, or does it matter what type you're getting?


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## gopro (Feb 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Rob_NC *_
> Hey GP,  don't you get enough Glutamine with your protein, or does it matter what type you're getting?



No you don't. You need a 5 gram dose in one shot, and 15-30 grams per day for the best effect. The peptide form is best. This is the only supplement that I take year around, aside from vitamins.


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## Arnold (Feb 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> No you don't. You need a 5 gram dose in one shot, and 15-30 grams per day for the best effect.



Where did you come up with these amounts? Experience, or research?

If from experience, how did you measure to know you need 15-30 grams for it to be effective? Also, why do you need to take 5 grams in one dose?

I read in an research article that taking 10 grams per day in conjunction with a high protein diet was sufficient.

Just curious. I started taking GLutamine again, but I do not take that much.


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## gopro (Feb 20, 2002)

I have to say that my thoughts on glutamine have come from research in part, but mostly from personal experience and experimentation on myself and my clients. I also get to speak with several other experts in the field on a regular basis, and they all feel that glutamine works best at the numbers I gave you.

I keep very careful track of everything I do as it relates to bodybuilding. I will experiment with one supplement at a time and diligently record changes in my body. With glutamine, I saw and felt dramatic changes in my body as well as in my health, but only after I hit about 25 grams per day. Now, I weigh about 250 lbs, so a lighter person can probably use less with the same results. I could probably write a whole article on my experiences with glutamine, but I'm sure you get my point.


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## jimbos (Feb 20, 2002)

Protein
Creatine and 
L-Glutamine...in that order


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## Arnold (Feb 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> I could probably write a whole article on my experiences with glutamine, but I'm sure you get my point.



Okay!


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## Tank316 (Feb 20, 2002)

i noticed a big difference when i went from 10 grams to 35/40 grams a day. i guess i would rather spend more money on glut than creat.   just my opinion


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## gopro (Feb 22, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Tank316 *_
> i noticed a big difference when i went from 10 grams to 35/40 grams a day. i guess i would rather spend more money on glut than creat.   just my opinion



You da man Tank


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## Tank316 (Feb 22, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> 
> 
> You da man Tank


i'm trying my best G.P. thanks.its a struggle though...


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## Bigtex111 (Feb 25, 2002)

Studies indicate creatine is more important in terms of cell volumizing and 1RM Lifts.


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## gopro (Feb 27, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Bigtex111 *_
> Studies indicate creatine is more important in terms of cell volumizing and 1RM Lifts.



Actually, creatine is more effective at increasing lifts in the 4-8 range, than in the 1RM range.


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## jim (Mar 1, 2002)

Whey,  Protein, Glutamine


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## Macnsmack (Mar 4, 2002)

*Protein is essential*

I must agree with the people who have responded with protein. If you don't have the essential building blocks of the body you will not recover and grow from your training.


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## gopro (Mar 4, 2002)

I don't really consider protein as a supplement. It is a macronutrient...the idea is to use the right amounts, the right types, and , at the right times.


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## Optimus (Mar 6, 2002)

Food and sleep.  None of those things would do shit if you didn't eat n' sleep.


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## Mule (Mar 6, 2002)

I use cell-tech, 1-Ad (gopro recomended), flaxseed oil, multi-vitamin, and glutamine...... thats what I find to work the best. Im thinking about trying this animal stack, but i dont know got to read more on it.


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## gopro (Mar 7, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Optimus *_
> Food and sleep.  None of those things would do shit if you didn't eat n' sleep.



I think most people here know you must first eat and sleep before bothering with supplements.


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## kuso (Mar 7, 2002)

I`m sure I could name one that probably doesn`t!! 

I won`t though!


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## Arnold (Mar 7, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Optimus *_
> Food and sleep.  None of those things would do shit if you didn't eat n' sleep.



Yup, and you must also lift weights!


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## Tank316 (Mar 7, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> 
> 
> Yup, and you must also lift weights!


o'great, now ya tell me.


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## Optimus (Mar 12, 2002)

Uh... and whey!


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## STONEDAV (Mar 14, 2002)

Cell-tec is crap. I tried it and could hardly drink it, it tastes so bad. Epherdrine is pretty darn good. I've taken it on days when I was almost asleep on the way to the gym only to end up having fantastic w'outs. The best I've tried is the one by AST - dymeterdryne extreme


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## big_lou (Mar 15, 2002)

protein and creatine. That will do it for me!


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## mesmall (Mar 17, 2002)

if I could only pic one it would be creatine.


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## jason (Mar 20, 2002)

been going to gym for a while but have never really done any serious weight training. I want to bulk-up yet stay defined and am looking for the best supplements to do this.
Any Tips or suggestions??


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## gopro (Mar 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by jason *_
> been going to gym for a while but have never really done any serious weight training. I want to bulk-up yet stay defined and am looking for the best supplements to do this.
> Any Tips or suggestions??



Yes...first start getting into serious weight training and serious eating...them worry about supplements


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## Robboe (Mar 21, 2002)




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## Arnold (Mar 21, 2002)

Diet/Nutrition > Training > Supplements, in that order.  Get your diet in order, learn how to train properly, including rest, then worry about supplements.


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## gopro (Mar 22, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> Diet/Nutrition > Training > Supplements, in that order.  Get your diet in order, learn how to train properly, including rest, then worry about supplements.



Prince always has the right answers! Right after reading mine...just kidding my friend


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## wildlifer_jones (Mar 25, 2002)

best supplement = the mind


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## gopro (Mar 26, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by wildlifer_jones *_
> best supplement = the mind



Not a supplement...but know what you're saying


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## arbntmare (Apr 3, 2002)

hmm mind is an ingredient that is essential.. or it the supplement doesn't work.. oh wait it works for pro players


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## Ron Jeremy (Apr 4, 2002)

Diet is the most important aspect. Abundance of quality food while gaining/bulking. Creatine,protein,glutamine are the most important supplements. Cutting up supplements would consist of protein, ECA Stack and possibly glutamine. 1-2 gallons of H2O while dieting makes a huge difference. The use of creatine while cutting is up for debate. Helps some while others hold H2O.Don't look past hard work and discipline they are the real keys to success.


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## zombiex (Apr 14, 2002)

i agree with the water.

water and a good variety of foods.


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## marcg39 (Apr 14, 2002)

b


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## KataMaStEr (Apr 14, 2002)

1.	Most important is Protein (can???t get enough of it)
2.	Multivitamins
3.	Creatine
4.	Glutamine

I stick to only those 4, Never tried anything else.


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## biggun (Apr 17, 2002)

WATER???
YEah...bet you grow a ton with that


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## kuso (Apr 19, 2002)

Well....as I`ve stated before, water isn`t a supp, but you can`t grow without it


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## gopro (Apr 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> Well....as I`ve stated before, water isn`t a supp, but you can`t grow without it



Or live for that matter!


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## oe40luvr (Apr 19, 2002)

as far as "supplements" go (because that is what the question was), i like creatine, protein, HMB, and glutamine


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## vinman (Apr 21, 2002)

whey protein is the most important supplement.


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## JonZ (May 2, 2002)

I think a good protein powder is indespensible.


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## ksiebert (May 3, 2002)

About Cell-Tech, I think it's a waste of $$$.  I've tried it, and the only thing it did was burn my throat a bit when I swallowed it.  Other than that, it just cost a lot of $.  A good creatine/vanadyl combonation would be cheaper and better!

I think Muscletech is all about promoting a crappy product!


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## negaun (May 3, 2002)

whey protein


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## wheete (May 10, 2002)

#1 Whey protein
#2 Creatine
#3 Glutamine
#4 Multivitamine or Vitamin C alone


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## ragingbull (May 10, 2002)

GoPro,

you said creatine is a good supp. when used correctly. What do you mean by this. Are we talking about mg. per day, beverage consumed with,  or how often you take it.


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## gopro (May 12, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by ragingbull *_
> GoPro,
> 
> you said creatine is a good supp. when used correctly. What do you mean by this. Are we talking about mg. per day, beverage consumed with,  or how often you take it.



All of it...by correctly I mean, after it is loaded in to your system (whether by a "loading phase" or a gradual increase), it should be taken post workout on training days...5 g with whey/simple carb drink, and first thing in the morning on off days.

You must use a quality brand...SKW creatine is the best...and although this can be argued...I have had the BEST results long term by using it for 3 months on and 1 month off. When I go back on I will "reload" at 20-25 grams per day for 5-7 days.

Everytime I do this, I break new plateaus in my training, and sometimes bodyweight. When I have stayed on constantly, my long term results were not as good.


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## razorblade (May 14, 2002)

Yeah, I agree that the poll should have said " most important SUPPLEMENTS" as I use almost all of them. Since turning drug free I have tried to focus on recovery and accelerating protein synthesis, so : glutamine, creatine, hi-quality food, multi's, zinc and folic acid(for improved testicular function, and they grew!) bcaa's,l-arginine, I guess that's it . Oh yeah, a glucose amino acid mixture immediately before and after workouts.


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## stam (May 14, 2002)

whey is the best/more important.


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## twarrior (May 16, 2002)

I've been using Cell-Tech/Nitro-Tech for 3 1/2 months. In the first 4 weeks I lost 14 pounds of fat and 2 inches off my weist.  In the next 1 1/2 months, I put back on 16 pounds of muscle (without the 2 inches), however in the last month, I've only been able to add another 1.5 pounds. I'm not sure if that's because I cycled off the creatine for a month or not. I'm also trying to find a cheaper protein that also has decent BCAA'sa and glutamine so I don't have to but that separate.


Twarrior


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## Var (May 17, 2002)

Gotta be protein.  Without enough of it, the other supplements aren't going to do you much good for muscle growth.


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## ians (May 20, 2002)

Gotta be Protein ! Dont Argue !!!!


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## gopro (May 21, 2002)

Will this thread ever die ?????????????????/


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## kuso (May 21, 2002)

It will if you close it


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## gopro (May 22, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by kuso *_
> It will if you close it



Hehe...true...soon!


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## GYM GURU (May 27, 2002)

Glutamine , protein & a mult vit with oxi ants are the only supplements I think all people need.  Question, do any of those HGH precursors work. For instance, secretagogue. There is a HGH precursor  spray advertised on the internet that they are giving away for free as long as you pay for the shipping & handling. I have friends that say those under the tongue sprays work. I cannot see them working because I was told HGH can only be ...!


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## conner1979 (May 28, 2002)

What about designer Protien? or Mega Mass? Is it better than Whey protien?


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## gopro (May 28, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by GYM GURU *_
> Glutamine , protein & a mult vit with oxi ants are the only supplements I think all people need.  Question, do any of those HGH precursors work. For instance, secretagogue. There is a HGH precursor  spray advertised on the internet that they are giving away for free as long as you pay for the shipping & handling. I have friends that say those under the tongue sprays work. I cannot see them working because I was told HGH can only be ...!



The homeopathic HGH sprays are worthless...the secretagoues, like Symbiotropin and Secretagogue One do work pretty well if used as directed....on an EMPTY stomach before bed and/or before a workout.

I have used both of these products with nice results.


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## TJohn (May 29, 2002)

Here's my top 5

whey
glutamine
creatine
chromium
vit C

TJohn


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## cult_status (May 31, 2002)

I have been taking ZMA as well as creatine.  I feel most benefit from the creatine as it has definitely improved my strength, muscle & endurance.  I have always sufferred with cramping (even before taking up BB) but it is my opinion that the ZMA has helped me with this, along with correct "warming down".


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## mad_mike (Jun 5, 2002)

As far as adding mass to your frame, I find the best supplement to be whey protein or protein in any other form


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## Solid_Steel (Jun 5, 2002)

I think a good quality source of protein whether it comes from powders , liver tabs , or Amino Acid tabs is the most important supplement.


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## KOnakinsky (Jun 7, 2002)

I would really have to say that a vitamin is your best supplement, then protein, and then your glutamine. Your vitamin is an insurance policy that you may not get from your food alone.


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## buff_tat2d_chic (Jun 11, 2002)

My vote is for creatine...but I am just a babe in this sport so don't mind me. I am trying to sort through it all and make an educated decision.

DAMN!!! Getting educated is hard work!


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## gopro (Jun 12, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by newly_buff *_
> My vote is for creatine...but I am just a babe in this sport so don't mind me. I am trying to sort through it all and make an educated decision.
> 
> DAMN!!! Getting educated is hard work!



Yes it can be...but it will be well worth it!!!!!!!!


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## GYM GURU (Jun 14, 2002)

I'd rather be educated as opposed to being broke.  Being uneducated about this sport will keep your pockets empty with nothing but dust in them. Learn as much as you can Newly_buff.


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## EarWax (Jul 7, 2002)

I put down protein, but I wish they could package sleep into tablet form.  Sleep is my most important suppliment.


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## Cenox (Jul 11, 2002)

Gopro: How is creatine used properly? So many oppinions on that...very confusing indeed


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## david (Jul 17, 2002)

Pro Hormones and other stuff is more important.  I seemed to get all the minerals and nutrients from food for some reason or another.  I guess I'm lucky (somewhat)


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## KataMaStEr (Jul 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by davidjasondean *_
> Pro Hormones and other stuff is more important.  I seemed to get all the minerals and nutrients from food for some reason or another.  I guess I'm lucky (somewhat)





I guess you one of the lucky ones indeed cuz prohomones is a waste of money for a lot of people.


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## david (Jul 17, 2002)

Actually the 1-test has been effective for quite a few that I know but for the dollars spent, there are BETTER things around....... like Steroids!  LOL!!!!


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## gopro (Jul 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Cenox *_
> Gopro: How is creatine used properly? So many oppinions on that...very confusing indeed



Very simple....
1) buy a good brand
2) load on 25 grams per day for one week (5 gr, 5 x per day on empty tummy)
3) take maintenance dose of 5 gr per day after the first week....right after training or first thing in the morning on off days
4) use for 3 months, then take one month off and repeat

*Note: loading is NOT necessary, but will saturate your muscles more quickly allowing for the effects to begin more quickly...AND...some people will claim that creatine does not need to be cycled...I believe it should be!


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## Cenox (Jul 19, 2002)

Thx a lot Gopro!


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## gopro (Jul 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Cenox *_
> Thx a lot Gopro!



My pleasure!


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## ShaqFu (Jul 25, 2002)

OK, this might be a little off topic, but I had another supps question.

What brands do you guys prefer? Personally I buy a lot of EAS and Prolab..

And secondly, does anyone know a good place to shop online for them? I'm in Canada, and www.sndcanada.com rocks!


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## kuso (Jul 25, 2002)

Heads up Corri.....the newbies are really the only ones in this thread now...so if you want some various opinions I`d start a new thread


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## OceanDude (Jul 16, 2003)

I agree that l-glutamine is way up there on the list. But another person mentioned a supplement that I think needs to be added also ??? EFA???s! Man this is one of the biggest and best things you can do for yourself if trying to gain mass or lose weight (and very few people honestly get enough of this in their normal diets). 

I also absolutely concur that multi-species proteins are the way to go for general protein utilization (and fast protein post workout).

Here is my rank priority of supplements based on a fat loss and muscle gain/preservation objective:
1) Essential Fats (Omega3/6/9: Alpha Linolenic Acid, Gamma Linolenic Acid, Eicosapentaenoic Acid, Docosahexaenoic Acid , Linoleic Acid, Oleic Acid)
2) L-Glutamine
3) Multi-Species Protein
4) Multi Vitamin (with good anti-oxifent ratio of vit. A, C, E )
5 Water
6) Creatine
7) CLA (sometimes already in a EFA supplement)
8) Optional metabolic boosters and anti oxidant/testos support : Green Tea, Triple Garlic Tabs (Garlic/Cayenne/Hawthorn Berry Capsules)


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## Pepper (Jul 16, 2003)

OD,

Why is Glutamine so high on the list? I like your list, but I would rearrange a few things. Glad you added EFA and CLA.


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## gopro (Jul 17, 2003)

Glutamine belongs in the top 3. OD has it correct in terms of glutamine placement in his list!


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## Par Deus (Aug 27, 2003)

1. Multi-vitamin
2. Fish oil
3. LeptiGen
4. Workout formula (particularly high on EAA's/BCAA's

3b. Glutamine and other osmolytes
3c. Anti-oxidants


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## gopro (Aug 28, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Par Deus *_
> 1. Multi-vitamin
> 2. Fish oil
> 3. LeptiGen
> ...



Leptigen? What is this Leptigen crap?


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## Par Deus (Aug 28, 2003)

Hehe.

Just realized I forgot creatine -- partitally belongs in the osmoltye category, but the ATP thing is quite nice, as well, so it's 3b.1


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## gopro (Aug 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Par Deus *_
> Hehe.
> 
> Just realized I forgot creatine -- partitally belongs in the osmoltye category, but the ATP thing is quite nice, as well, so it's 3b.1



Yeah, I was originally suprised to see creatine excluded from your list. I think that Leptihoohoo stuff is not only making you lose bodyfat, but clogging your gray matter...LOL...


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## BigBallaGA (Sep 1, 2003)

why take extra glut when most wheys already have plenty of glut in them ??????????????


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## Dale Mabry (Sep 17, 2003)

Ok, I will have to post an assumption here to make my list.  My assumption is that the person is eating a good diet.  Having said that, I believe a multi is fairly useless.  So here is my list:

Protein-Every type has it's place
Creatine-IMO, the greatest supplement to come out of the 80s/90s even though it has been here longer.
Glutamine-The only problem I have w/ glutamine is that I seem to get sick shortly after stopping it.
ECA stack-This thing got me thru many a workout while on a severe cut.
Prohormones-Got good results off the first generation ones of these, but I have only tried VPXs 1-Test as a newer generation one.  May dive back in shortly.


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## gopro (Sep 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BigBallaGA *_
> why take extra glut when most wheys already have plenty of glut in them ??????????????



Because in order to see TRUE ergogenic benefits from glutamine, you need between 15 and 40 g per day, depending on your size, diet, training, etc.

The gut is a glutamine hog and will use up most of your dietary intake, therefore the need to supplement extra.


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## Tha Don (Sep 18, 2003)

well can't comment too much because i've only tried half of em (considering glutamine soon, but its kinda pricey on top of all the other stuff)

but CREATINE is goddamm awesome!

definatly top of my list, when I take creatine it really has an effect
(by far the most effective supplement i've tried)

however in terms of importance whey is pretty vital


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## TheGreatSatan (Sep 21, 2003)

Hands down, it's protein.


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## Arthur2004 (Sep 25, 2003)

i voted for whey protein..i tried creatine but stopped after the 3rd day... i was gettnig sharp kidney pains and did not want to risk anything.g...and i heard u dont realyl get much strenght from it...just bulky muscle that is gone the second u stop worlking out ...so now i have  400g of creatine left...feels like waste of money but i dont know...i felt like i was doing it right...4 times a day for the loading pahse..on empty stomach.. when i woke up..b4 workout..post workout..and b4 sleep


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## gr81 (Sep 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Arthur2004 *_
> ...i felt like i was doing it right...4 times a day for the loading pahse..on empty stomach.. when i woke up..b4 workout..post workout..and b4 sleep




I agree with you about the whey being the best, but why were you always on an ampty stomach?? you ain't gonna gain muscle like that no matter how many supps you take bro


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## Arthur2004 (Sep 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gr81 *_
> I agree with you about the whey being the best, but why were you always on an ampty stomach?? you ain't gonna gain muscle like that no matter how many supps you take bro



no no... i wasn't always on an empty stomach....i just took creatine on a n empty stomach cause thats wat i was told to do.....


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## BabsieGirl (Oct 22, 2003)

I'd say Glute.  Then Creatine. then Protein.

You can get protein from natural sources.....food.
Glute needs replaced...and I don't think it's replaced by food???
Creatine......helps build muscle by allowing you to lift more.


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## HoldDaMayo (Nov 2, 2003)

creatine has made the biggest difference for me, especially when eating well and taking an ECA about 30-45 mins before i hit the gym... very solid pump...


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## Testosterone (Nov 4, 2003)

*How about Milk Protein*



> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> As you allude to, yes, food is the most important....
> 
> As for the whey thing...this applies to everyone, not just advanced lifters or competitors. If you will be using a protein powder or MRP several times per day, you are better off with a BLEND of proteins, rather than a straight whey! If you use a powder right after your workout, stick with whey alone....but at all other times, a blended protein will be more effective for muscle gain!



How about Milk Protein Isolate+Multi Vitamin.
No need to go for Specialized Whey Isolates or Peptides.....


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## MuscleNYC (Nov 11, 2003)

Protein provides amino acids, which are the building blocks of muscle .   So without protein intake you cannot build muscle....so obviously PROTEIN is the most improtant, effective suppleent.


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## Twin Peak (Nov 11, 2003)

Except sufficient quantities of protein can be consumed without any supplements at all.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 11, 2003)

Thanks TP.  That's exactly what I stated above.


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## senimoni (Nov 14, 2003)

test


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## mantosof (Nov 19, 2003)

Do you guys realise HOW confusing you sound to a newbie who up to yesterday only knew about Flintstones  Chewables?? 

Why cant we all agree on ..what should a newbie take to build muscle, lose fat with overall health benefits.

THe newbie link on supplements led me to a loooong article that i realised id have to go to school and get a PHD in physics to undetstand


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## Testosterone (Nov 19, 2003)

Flashy Supplements come and go forever!
Protein is king. Without protein you can't buil muscle!
Protein is and always will be the first product to put your money on!


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by mantosof *_
> Do you guys realise HOW confusing you sound to a newbie who up to yesterday only knew about Flintstones  Chewables??
> 
> *How is this thread confusing?  Flintstone Chewables, how old are you?  I find this hard to believe, don't you watch Tv?  Vitamins are commercialized daily.*
> ...


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## Yomato (Dec 10, 2003)

Multi...


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## hhds (Dec 14, 2003)

multi


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## HoldDaMayo (Dec 17, 2003)

Animal products insignia as an avatar is the key to building mass... I've seen like 5 people on these forums... and they all claim to be genetically gifted... who would have thought?


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## BabyArnold (Dec 18, 2003)

Vitamins and minerals. You can always get protein from food. Your body has to have extra vitamins and minerals because our foods don't have enough in them anymore. For instance, you would have to eat 33 pounds of Spinach just to get your daily serving of vitamin E. And that is just vitamin E! You would have to eat half of a bushel of carrots just to get a daily amount of vitamin A. That's crazy! I can eat enough protein in a day to get what I need out of it, but vitamins, no way.


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## Testosterone (Dec 18, 2003)

Baby Arnold. you're damn right. 
Protein is first among equals.
But Multis will work only if you got adequate quantities of Protein in your body!
So here we are again, For BB, Protein is #1 Choice.


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## plouffe (Dec 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by hhds *_
> multi



Hey man, How about you get your own AVATAR!!!


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## Testosterone (Dec 18, 2003)

Hey Man. No need for an Avatar! 
I'm their Largest distributor in INDIA. I am an Animal!



> _*Originally posted by plouffe *_
> Hey man, How about you get your own AVATAR!!!


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## BabyArnold (Dec 18, 2003)

This is the deal. If I was a fat or skinny pathetic loser and all I did was sit around and never worried about bodybuilding, then multi-vitamin and minerals would be the best thing for me. But the majority of us here I would assume are bodybuilders or people trying to become bodybuilders. Therefore, there is no such thing as one sole important supplement. We need them all! Especially if you are trying to do it the natural way. You have to have glutamine, creatine, protein,vitamins, minerals, and some form of natural or synthetic testosterone enhancer to compete or to even get on stage. Unless you are just the most genetically gifted being on the planet.


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## prolangtum (Jan 4, 2004)

How would using a testosterone enhancer be considered natural?


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## SJ69 (Jan 5, 2004)

Soon there will not be any effective body building supplements.
People who sell bb supps will be reduced to snake oil salesmen.
In the "Land of the Free" everything effective is banned, go figure.

Instead of banning the shit that doesn't work, the friggin FDA wants to ban everything that DOES work and let the consumer get ripped off by buying a bunch of junk that doesn't work.  Aren't that a little Bass Aakward here?


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## Testosterone (Jan 5, 2004)

C'mon...Protien is always gonna be there.....


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## htotcb (Jan 15, 2004)

You mention blended proteins as opposed to a whey protein.  What are you looking for in a good blended protein, and where can one get a good casein protein?


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## Testosterone (Jan 15, 2004)

A good blended protein must contain all the important fractions of protein and wide spectrum Amino Acid Profile:
Whey Peptides, Miceller Casein, Egg Albumen, Milk Protein Isolate constitute a perfect blend of fast, intermediate and slow releasing proteins.
My favorite blend is ProPeptide (Vanilla) and Pro MR (Vanilla) which I think is first among equals in terms of quality, price & results. Try it and you wont regret your decision!
My favorite milk protein isolate is GROW MRP.


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## myCATpowerlifts (Jan 31, 2004)

hey, instead of buying all thos milk protein isolate supps...
why not just drink half a gallon of milk a day like me


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## Testosterone (Jan 31, 2004)

Bingo!


> _*Originally posted by myCATpowerlifts *_
> hey, instead of buying all thos milk protein isolate supps...
> why not just drink half a gallon of milk a day like me


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## myCATpowerlifts (Feb 1, 2004)

seriously tho, wouldnt that do the same thing?


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## Testosterone (Feb 1, 2004)

it will.
but you have to tolerate lactose!


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## myCATpowerlifts (Feb 2, 2004)

oh well...i dont mind having to take a narly crap, as long as i get my protein


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## myCATpowerlifts (Feb 2, 2004)

actually i think one thing is the delivery system, its made to absorb better


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## firestorm (Feb 8, 2004)

The most effective or most important is the one you have a difficiency in.   If you eat perfect and I mean perfect,,, you don't need Protein powder or extra vitamins.  
Creatine, prohormones aren't that important if you workout to just stay healthy and in shape.  
as for ZMA I don't feel it's necessary in the least since I've never used it, don't know what it does and I'm coming along very nicely without it.
So this question was a bit vague if you ask me.

If I were to have to pick one from a personal standpoint taking into consideration what I said above,, I think I'd have to say,  Protein and prohormones and creatine are the most important since I've seen my best gains in years using all three.  Picking only one is only a single stone in a foundation made of many stones.   It's a combination of several stones that makes my foundation strong and healthy.


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## Briguy (Mar 27, 2004)

I think the most important would be a couple of beers with a few packs of assorted Little Debbie snack cakes
what do ya think?
Sorry, had to do it.......LOL


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## MikeyTony12 (Mar 28, 2004)

I think Whey is great, but Gluatimine is the king


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## camarosuper6 (Apr 1, 2004)

Is anyone besides me sick and tired of seeing this damn thread on the first page.


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## David Tolson (Apr 3, 2004)

I chose creatine. My reasoning:

-Adequate high quality protein can be achieved through diet, although not as easily as if you supplement with protein; OTOH it would be much more difficult to get the same amounts of creatine that you supplement with through the diet
-Multivitamins are important, but double-blind studies have found that they don't improve performance. Serious vitamin/mineral deficiencies are relatively rare. I still think there's no reason not to take a good multi though.
-Prohormones are effective but many do not want to take them. 
-ZMA and glutamine are crap in my opinion


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## Dipsh!t (Jun 26, 2004)

Whey protein and creatine i say


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## Monolith (Jul 5, 2004)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> Is anyone besides me sick and tired of seeing this damn thread on the first page.


 No... im quite interested in seeing how many people think creatine is the most important supplement.  We need at _least_ 10 more pages of this.


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## gopro (Jul 6, 2004)

Monolith said:
			
		

> No... im quite interested in seeing how many people think creatine is the most important supplement. We need at _least_ 10 more pages of this.


I say 20!


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## topolo (Jul 12, 2004)

I like petroleum jelly myself


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## NEW_IN_THE_GAME (Jul 13, 2004)

i think protein is a must for anyone no matter what- body builders- dieting - kids or elderly - u need protein to survive - this is an easy way to boost it. plus i like creatine and arginine.


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## Monolith (Jul 20, 2004)

topolo said:
			
		

> I like petroleum jelly myself


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## gopro (Jul 20, 2004)

topolo said:
			
		

> I like petroleum jelly myself


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## mino lee (Sep 28, 2004)

Monolith said:
			
		

> No... im quite interested in seeing how many people think creatine is the most important supplement. We need at _least_ 10 more pages of this.


i've tried creatine with dextrose b4. extremely extremely constipating. 

then i tried celltech which basically was creatine + alphalipoic acid + taurine. not constipating at all, and held water weight easy which is not necessarily a bad thing, cuz then at least i am never de-hydrated. great creatine product. 

only problem is, can't clearly see how good creatine really is on it's own.


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## Pirate! (Sep 30, 2004)

Monolith said:
			
		

> No... im quite interested in seeing how many people think creatine is the most important supplement.  We need at _least_ 10 more pages of this.


 Well put. This thread should be closed.


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## min0 lee (Oct 24, 2004)

*Whey, creatine, and horny goat*


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## gococksDJS (Nov 20, 2004)

Why the hell does this thread keep getting pushed to the top?


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## DOMS (Nov 29, 2004)

Because it's a poll.  Whenever someone votes, it gets bumped.


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## Curlingcadys (Jan 2, 2005)

mantosof said:
			
		

> Do you guys realise HOW confusing you sound to a newbie who up to yesterday only knew about Flintstones Chewables??
> 
> Why cant we all agree on ..what should a newbie take to build muscle, lose fat with overall health benefits.
> 
> THe newbie link on supplements led me to a loooong article that i realised id have to go to school and get a PHD in physics to undetstand


 after my first couple posts and learning I found this to be very helpfull:

CLICK HERE!!


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## Flakko (Jan 14, 2005)

IMO, FOOD is the best supplement!!!

LOL, actually I think a good whey protein is the best choice. Creatine should be the second one or the combo Whey + Creatine would be the best supplement.

Also, both are cheap (Creatine Mono) and have (By what I know) no side effects.

Flakko


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## thatguy (Jan 14, 2005)

*Five more days...*

Five more days til the PH/PS ban...

It makes me sad.  I have about a year's worth stocked up, but nothing beyond that.  Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll come out with a "loophole" between now and then.  

I honestly never thought I'd take them, but I gained so much mass and strength so quickly while on 1-AD, I'm really gonna miss them.


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## j rizz (Jan 15, 2005)

i take opti whey protien, multi vit, flax oil capsules (for EFA's), and i have some cell-tech ,but im still affraid to take it. i want need a little more assurance before i crack it open.


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## milwood (Jan 15, 2005)

protein is the most important for bodybuilding. If diet is in check, most vitamins are covered, although a multi is a good idea for anyone-especially one who exercises regularly. The rest are options/additions/enhancers-valuable in their own right, but not absolutely essential. My favorite, of the list, however, is prohormones. Damn ban...


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## Vise (Jan 26, 2005)

why hasn't this thread ended?


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## gococksDJS (Jan 27, 2005)

because people keep voting.


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## Cold Iron (Jan 31, 2005)

and posting


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## KentDog (Mar 13, 2005)

Although protein can be obtained from foods, the actual supplements just make it easier and cheaper.  Not only this, but you don't need to worry about additional unwanted carbs, fats, etc. being consumed.  Plus the time spent in making enough food (and eating it) compared to the time it takes to stir and drink a shake... you do the math.

This is why I also agree that Whey Protein is the most important supplement.  I also believe it to be the safest.  Plus pills are annoying.


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## kkschaef (Mar 13, 2005)

I'm going to say for me glutamine If I eat right I can get my protein and vitamins through food sources. i need my glutamine for recovery and preserving my muscles.


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## god hand (Sep 15, 2005)

Youll probably have a better chance to gain muscle with prohormones than protein shakes.


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## GFR (Sep 15, 2005)

Multiple Vitamin/Mineral is the top of the list I.M.O. without vitamins and minerals good luck doing anything well in this life. They are the foundation of the house.....you can get fancy later if you like.


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## FishOrCutBait (Sep 23, 2005)

I believe that everyone who is serious about weightlifting (not bodybuilding, it's a whole different ballgame) should take a multi and whey protein. 

As far as bodybulding goes, creatine, your favorite form. I like ethyl ester, simply because of the price. From there... Maybe BCAA's, on a cut. On a bulk... Something else.


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## Nachez (Oct 13, 2005)

if you want to go all natural
Id say
ur best bet for protein is egg whites!!!
Fish, 
fried grass hopers or fried mantis, may gross many of u out but there very high in protein,
taste very good also if u eat lobster or crab or shrimp u should have no problems with them there in the same family.

Maca 
the wonder food of south america!! all the amino acids all kind of vitamins,

Sarsparilla
a good food in general

Tribulus
a good herbal supplement.

Soy Protein 
good high in protein tastes good


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## FishOrCutBait (Oct 19, 2005)

soy protein is estrogenic... DONT FRY PRAYING MANTI YOU SICK PUNK!!! They make good pets...


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## CancerNV (Oct 21, 2005)

What makes them good pets?


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## min0 lee (Nov 7, 2005)

They pray.


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## BulkMeUp (Nov 17, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> They pray.


I like to prey. Will you be my pet?


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## min0 lee (Nov 23, 2005)

BulkMeUp said:
			
		

> I like to prey. Will you be my pet?


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## BulkMeUp (Nov 24, 2005)

min0 lee said:
			
		

>


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## trip70 (Feb 28, 2006)

I was for vitamins,only thinking that with out the proper supply in your body,can you benefit in full from all the others?


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## Guru (Mar 3, 2006)

Food


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## pris (Mar 4, 2006)

*re*

I like to prey. Will you be my pet?

You cant say that to an acttractive woman 

Any ways min would look better standing next to me


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## gopro (Mar 4, 2006)

Guru said:
			
		

> Food



That is not a supplement.


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## Arnold (Mar 4, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> That is not a supplement.





we all know that food is number one, this forum is about supps.


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## gopro (Mar 4, 2006)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> we all know that food is number one, this forum is about supps.


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## topolo (Mar 9, 2006)




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## FishOrCutBait (Mar 14, 2006)

I eat food. Food good.

Anyway, definitely creatine with taurine... Everybody should take taurine. Its too cheap to not


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## section8 (Apr 18, 2006)

mulit vitamin


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## BigPapaPump68 (Apr 23, 2006)

whey protein by far. With out proper diet you wont gain much at all.


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## GFR (Apr 23, 2006)




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## viet_jon (May 22, 2006)

can't remember your name......but the big guy with the blue shirt.....


you keep saying take a good brand, but what brands are good?

I"m using pro-lab whey, muschletech's creatine, and muscletech hydroxycut....are these any good?

gonna add glutamine to my list also, what brand do you prefer?  and what about protein bars, what's good?


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## OneWheyOrAnother (Jun 6, 2006)

I could've sworn this thread was closed.

But definitely protein, then creatine. However I COULD do without creatine more than I could without whey protein.


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## assassin (Jun 6, 2006)

creatine if used correctly is the most effective but the most important is the whey protein as it plays a big role in the main diet...


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## 2ndpassion (Aug 29, 2007)

You can't build a house without a foundation...

I'd definately say a good multi-vitamin is the most important supplement


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