# Post workout



## suraj (Dec 22, 2011)

Hi, Kind of new to body building so I have not got any whey protein shake yet, I want to know what would be good to have straight after a workout and what would a good meal be after the workout?
I heard I should have simple carbs to restore gucose back into my body fast so something like white bread or tbs of honey? What I would usually have is just 2 sandwitches full of tuna in white bread but people say tuna protein will take to long, should I have something like soya yogurt or a cup or skim milk and have the sanwich with some brown bread later? Should I add complex carbs and simple carbs straight after the workout?


----------



## ExLe (Dec 22, 2011)

Post workout...

25-50g whey protein...

60-70g of dextrose or maltodextrine or 50/50...

You gotta pay to play, buy them...


Then have your solid meal 1 hour after...


----------



## suraj (Dec 22, 2011)

Is there no possible way to get the right nutrition after a workout without whey? Not that I cant get it, just that I am a beginner and have recently been on a 1200 cal diet and gone down to a 133lb weight at 5ft 10 male age 18. I am skinny fat and want to see some rsults before I start investing in allot, I have a barbell in the shed with more than enough weights, I will be geting single hande bars soon (sorry dont know the real name) so just want to start with what I got for now.

Also people have said on other forums that they cant get whey so they just have something like milk with honey and something later on like a complex carb with protein(lean meat), is this okay?


----------



## juggernaut (Dec 22, 2011)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/All-1-/3208...omain_0&var=&hash=item76c1412b40#ht_604wt_952
This for post workout nutrition. 

As for any other sources of protein after a workout, keep the fats low and mix protein and carbs. In other words, a tsp of dextrose on some oatmeal is great, and 5-7 egg whites. Best to use egg whites only or a mix of whey protein and a small amount of cottage cheese mixed in.


----------



## suraj (Dec 22, 2011)

So I can not substitute anything not as good but something that helps for now?
I dont want to buy any yet until I am a bit more into body building, I have only had about 2-3 propper workout session yet, I am changing my plan so that I will be doing 4 days a week and want to try it out before I start buying suplements, so please can do you know if there is any substitute for now? I dont want to buy any supliments so early.


----------



## juggernaut (Dec 22, 2011)

Not sure I understand by it's too early? Supplements arent a magic bullet, they assist in your endeavor. They dont do all the work-your body does.
I gave you an option which is the link, or a whole food approach. What else is there? You can substitute something for oatmeal, like white rice with a mix of brown rice, or a baked potato with nothing on it. I wouldn't go that far away from my recommendations.


----------



## juggernaut (Dec 22, 2011)

Another way is  10oz of lowfat chocolate milk.


----------



## ExLe (Dec 22, 2011)

Eat $ cheeseburgers at Mcdonalds...

With a large coke...


----------



## suraj (Dec 22, 2011)

I am geting some next week, I have poridge oats, that with milk and honey do for now?


----------



## suraj (Dec 22, 2011)

sorry, didnt see the text under the link, computer is  messed up, what is dextrose, can I substitute anything for that? dont have any yet.


----------



## Ezskanken (Dec 22, 2011)

Wait...are you saying that you think you are fat at 5'10" 133 lbs being 18 years of age?


----------



## suraj (Dec 22, 2011)

Sorry, please ignore all the stupid questions about my computer wont let me see half of what is being said.
I have done some research and found out what dextrose is, I dont have any and found that honey is a good substute for now so I was thinking post workout - 30-40g porridge oats (oatmeal) (Is that enough or do I need ALLOT?) with how much honey? teaspoon or table spoon or more? should I make it in skim milk or should I go for water? and egg whites about 5-6. Thanks for all the info so far and sorry about the confusion.


Also should I watch the calories on rest days? I just subtract about 300 off my workout days? I am using my BMR+500 a day so on rest days BMR+200? Also how about my carbs, should I keep them a bit lower too? I am skinny fat so I was thinking about cycling to limit the amount of BF% gain.


----------



## suraj (Dec 22, 2011)

Ezskanen, I dont think I am fat I know it, I was on such a low calorie diet(STUPID STUPID thign to do) I lost all my muscle and left with body fat, I am now planing on bulking up and nice clean cut after I am at a nice muscle %.

Also very sorry about asking all these questions which you have probably answered 100's of times allready but could you please tell me what my diet should be like? I mean I am eating about 10 eggs+ if I add eggs to my post workout, isnt this bad? I am only supposed to have 2100 cals on workout days and keep about 1800 on rest days, what would be nice clean bulk? If I watch my protein and cals will carbs and fats not matter much? And do I need more protein on workout days? Also people say have oats in the morning, how much should I have, in water or milk, is weetabix just as good? I add plenda is that okay?
Could you also answer my questions on my previous post please? Thank you for all the help so far, have learn allo from you all and again I AM VERY SORRY FOR ASKING ALL THESE QUESTIONS.


----------



## juggernaut (Dec 22, 2011)

Honey is not a good substitute for dex. Honey contains fructose. Not advisable after a workout. If you have any presweetened cereals use a bit of that in your oats.


----------



## Ezskanken (Dec 22, 2011)

suraj said:


> *Ezskanen, I dont think I am fat I know it*, I was on such a low calorie diet(STUPID STUPID thign to do) I lost all my muscle and left with body fat, I am now planing on bulking up and nice clean cut after I am at a nice muscle %...



I guess it's hard for me to understand that without seeing pictures, but I don't think 5'10" and 133 lbs. should ever be considered "fat."

This is just my 2 cents but being 18 I would eat what ever I wanted when I wanted not thinking about calories at all!  Just avoiding fast food, soda, and candy/sugar.  The simplest/basic need was suggested to you with the purchase of whey, maybe even some good old monohydrate.  

But like Exle mentioned, "it cost to be a boss..."


----------



## Mooksman (Dec 22, 2011)

Just eat after ur workout bro. A can of tuna and a glass of grape juice. Easy


----------



## juggernaut (Dec 23, 2011)

Mooksman said:


> Just eat after ur workout bro. A can of tuna and a glass of grape juice. Easy



Tuna is a slow digesting protein. Although somewhat acceptable, not exactly ideal; the ones I've mentioned do more than enough on a shoe-string budget, no less.


----------



## suraj (Dec 23, 2011)

Great advice guys, thanks for all the help so far. Do I need loads of carbs after a workout and also is porridge oats a complex or simple carb? What could I substitute that I would probably have in the house for dex, I have crunchy nut cereal, how much dex do I need I will check if they contain any, can I have my oats with milk after the workout?
Also I heard simple carbs in morning are good so should I have a tbs of sugar with my weetabix half a cup of skim milk?

Also like mentioned before.."you should eat what you want", I AM AND I LOVE IT!!!!! I was on a low cal diet then a low carb diet then again a low cal now this, it has been about 1 year+ since I had actualy eaten musch fat and now I just want to make sure I am eating enough to keep my muscle and have enough energy, I am litraly having to stuff myself for the 2100 callories.


----------



## aminoman74 (Dec 23, 2011)

I do waxy-maize and whey isolates


----------



## suraj (Dec 23, 2011)

Geting my suplements next week hopefully, I have had a quick look in the kitchen I have foun custard powder and nesquick chocolate milkshake, it says that custard powder contains corn syrup (im not sure if that is the same as dex) and the chocolate milkshake powder contains dex, it is 3rd down on the ingredients list.
Do you think any of them are a suitable substitute?


----------



## suraj (Dec 23, 2011)

So confused...I think I might be eating too little, I want to bulk up my weight is 135 lbs 18 years old 5 ft 10 male, I am not very active in my daily life but just with weight lifting, I do 4 days lifting a week planing on changing to 5 days a week, my BMR is 1661 and when I am not lifting I just sit around not doing much exercise, for my bulking calories am I supposed to add 500 to the 1661 or am I supposed to add 1 hours worth of workout callories burned(maybee 300 I dont know) and then add another 500 to bulk? Also my fat intake should be 0.5xmy body weight lbs and my protein should be 1-1.5 lbs x body weight lbs even on workout days?


----------



## juggernaut (Dec 23, 2011)

Waxy maize is garbage.


----------



## Powermaster (Dec 23, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> Waxy maize is garbage.



I agree. 

Bite the bullet and get some whey and be done with it.


----------



## Powermaster (Dec 23, 2011)

suraj said:


> Also my fat intake should be 0.5xmy body weight lbs and my protein should be 1-1.5 lbs x body weight lbs even on workout days?



Everyday.

If you workout hard enough you'll get hungry. This is your body telling you "I'm growing, feed me". Eat more of everything then look in the mirror. If you are building muscle you are doing good, if you are gaining fat, cut back on everything else but the protein and fats. Doesn't get much simpler than that.


----------



## juggernaut (Dec 23, 2011)

If you weigh 133lbs, you should _*get at least 1296 calories*_. 

If you want to bulk, that's a great idea. If you do a carb cycling strategy, you'll need to track calories and macros. Here's what I'm thinking to get to 160lbs for starters:


GOAL WEIGHT = 160 lbs. 
Maintenance calories: 1296 per day; 
3 lifting/HIIT days per week.
*An extra 2,722 calories per week.for a gain of 0.8 pounds per week*

Average daily macros: 
160g of protein, 
80g of fat, and 
81g of carbohydrate, 
1,685 calories in total.

(3) Lifting/HIIT days: 
160g of protein, 
80g of fat, and 
153g of carbohydrate, 
1,971 calories in total.

(4) Rest days:
160g of protein, 
80g of fat, and 
28g of carbohydrate, 
1,471 calories in total.			



Do nothing EXCEPT heavy compound work. A great idea is simple:

5x5 on all sets except where noted:
Day 1
Back Squats
Bench Press
Rows
RDLs
Military Press
Chins (add weight after 3x10 are achieved) 			

5x5 on all sets except where noted:
Day 2
Deadlift
Rows
Incline Bench Press
RDLs
Military Press
Chins (add weight after 3x10 are achieved)


----------



## suraj (Dec 23, 2011)

My goal is to bulk, not loose weight yet, I have a high body fat% and very low muscle% I am planning on working out 4-5 days a week and so far everyone has told me stick to 40/40/20 ratios pro/carb/fat and my bmr is calculated to be 1661, it says if I want to loose weight lower to 1200 but I want to gain muscle, I have checked and people say go to 1661+500 for muscle gain on rest days since you need cals to build muscle and on workout days take it to 1661+500+300 the extra 300 for the workout callories burned. I think you may have misunderstood and thought that I wanted to loose fat before I bulk but everybody so far has said bulk by eating 800+ callories on workout days because 300 for exercise and 500 for muscle mass gain. I lift heavy and have been doing 3 sets of 6-10, Great advice on the 5x5 I will try it thanks for the help could you just make sure that the plan I got is right or should I follow you plan to bulk. Not doing any cardio yet, allready too little weight.


----------



## suraj (Dec 23, 2011)

Also I am keeping my carbs high med and low atm because on days I need more carbs I will eat up to 250 on med days I have 150 and on rest days anywhere between 50-100. Is this okay? Thanks in advance.


----------



## suraj (Dec 23, 2011)

Juggernaut, I am just wondering is that diet and workout plan to loose weight or bulk? I dont want to loose weight yet because all so fa have said you can only do one or the other, loose fat or bulk, if I follow your diet will I get lean muscle or will I loose fat? I would definatly not question your advice since I have seen how experienced you are and how much you have helped people on this forum allready, I feel so great because I am geting advice from such an expert, thank you for all the time you have spent so far helping me, just need the basics and I will follow and hopefully get nice results. Could you please give me an intense way to bulk up for me I am willing to spend 1 hour every day in the morning or night depending on day apart from 1 or 2 days on the weekend, I really want this I have tried geting a nice body for ages now I really think this is the solution.


----------



## suraj (Dec 23, 2011)

Could you please tell me about the callories I should be eating, 2400ish or 1900ish, after I have this information I will have a look at all the food I am taking now and I will create a new thread with my new diet plan and see how you can tweak it for maximum muscle growth, please remember I am 5 ft 10 male 135lb 18 years Old and I am going to start lifting 4-5 days a week, I am skinny fat and just want to have a nice body as soon as possible, after I have that body I want to bulk up allot more.


----------



## banker23 (Dec 23, 2011)

suraj said:


> So I can not substitute anything not as good but something that helps for now?
> I dont want to buy any yet until I am a bit more into body building, I have only had about 2-3 propper workout session yet, I am changing my plan so that I will be doing 4 days a week and want to try it out before I start buying suplements, so please can do you know if there is any substitute for now? I dont want to buy any supliments so early.


 
If you're new to this you should be able to get some results just by being disciplined. Whey should probably be one of the first supplements you start with though. I started training when I was around 14 with just elevated pushups, dips, bodyweight rows between two chairs with a broom handle, and a gym bag that I loaded up with all the books it could carry for curls.

As I progressed I would just put heavier things in my lap or I would have my little brother or cousin sit on my back for pushups.

I was pretty strong for my weight when I started lifting iron at 16. I weighed about 130 and I was benching between 135 for 10 reps and quickly progressed to 175 for reps in a couple months with no supplementation whatsoever. I barely even had a decent diet at home because my family was dirt poor. I had three meals but things were rationed and sometimes it was potato soup...not exactly good for building muscle.

I took off pretty quick though when I got married and could eat whatever I wanted and probably did not start supplementing with whey until about 24 years old.


----------



## banker23 (Dec 23, 2011)

suraj said:


> Could you please tell me about the callories I should be eating, 2400ish or 1900ish, after I have this information I will have a look at all the food I am taking now and I will create a new thread with my new diet plan and see how you can tweak it for maximum muscle growth, please remember I am 5 ft 10 male 135lb 18 years Old and I am going to start lifting 4-5 days a week, I am skinny fat and just want to have a nice body as soon as possible, after I have that body I want to bulk up allot more.


 
At your weight and age I would say forget about calories and eat as much crap as possible as long as it has protein: greasy cheeseburgers, quesadillas, chimichangas, pizza, tacos, KFC etc., etc. Eat as much as you can and train 3-4 days a week (instead of 4-5). I didn't have to worry about dialing back until I was approaching 30 and we have almost identical stats at the age of 18.


----------



## banker23 (Dec 23, 2011)

...or you could do what Juggs is recommending in the previous post (especially the part about compound lifts). That would be the absolute best but I know when I was at where OP is I had alot of other things on my mind and that would have been too much for me to process.

The OP sounds like he's got alot of catching up to do so just getting started and staying disciplined (not giving up on it) is going to be his biggest battle at first.


----------



## suraj (Dec 23, 2011)

Great thanks for the information, at the moment I am just using juggernauts advice: 1.5 tbs nesquick with 10 oz skim milk and 5 egg whites after having that, or might cut down on the eggs. My main question is though what should my calorie intake be for maximum bulking, dont want to gain allot of BF% just bulk and then cut when I am at a apropriate weight preferably like juggernaut said 160 lbs.


----------



## juggernaut (Dec 23, 2011)

suraj said:


> My main question is though what should my calorie intake be for maximum bulking, dont want to gain allot of BF% just bulk and then cut when I am at a apropriate weight preferably like juggernaut said 160 lbs.



I laid everything out for what you need to accomplish. Some fat will occur, but 2-4% fat is not a big issue to cut.


----------



## juggernaut (Dec 23, 2011)

suraj said:


> Juggernaut, I am just wondering is that diet and workout plan to loose weight or bulk?



This formula is to bulk, but bulk intelligently without much in the way of fat gain.


----------



## suraj (Dec 23, 2011)

So if I follow your plan it will show maximum bulking results and minimum fat gain for me? Should I forget everything else and just do that? I know you are an expert in this jug that is why I am following your advice, I have seen how much you have helped others and  really appreciate you helping me, I will start your way of bulking then, also could you have a look at my other post too please it shows my diet and workout.


----------



## suraj (Dec 23, 2011)

juggernaut said:


> If you weigh 133lbs, you should _*get at least 1296 calories*_.
> 
> If you want to bulk, that's a great idea. If you do a carb cycling strategy, you'll need to track calories and macros. Here's what I'm thinking to get to 160lbs for starters:
> 
> ...


 
Sorry, didnt read properly before, I see now...you mean 4 days off and 3 days exercise, I have monday morning, tuseday full day and friday full day off college so that will fit perfectly, should I do 1 set of 5x5 on monday, HIIT on tuseday and another set of 5x5 on friday?
On HIIT days eat high carb and on rest days low carbs but when do I eat moderate carbs?
With HIIT should I pack up complex carbs before HIIT and have my milkshake after the HIIT or it a whole different concept?


----------



## suraj (Dec 23, 2011)

Also juggernaut should I be having the milkshake and egg whites after workout or just the shake?


----------



## vancouver (Dec 23, 2011)

Please do not use dextrose in your shakes. Consuming high GI sugar with your protein after workout to get an isulin response is an old theory, it has recently been debunked by researchers. I fell into this trap too and did it for a long time. Yes you need to replace some sugar stores after your workout, but this is mainly for athletic performance. 1% or 2% milk with why protein is all you need. You must eat a real meal 1 hour after the shake, so 2 tablespoons of peanut butter and 2 slices of squirelley bread and 2 eggs will do just great.

Keep it simple. As some guys have said, they gained muscle eating KFC, you will do great keeping it clean.

OPTIMUM 100% WHEY PROTEIN POWDER GOLD SERIES 10 LB BAG | eBay

10lb bag of ON protein (dutch chocolate is my fave). 154 servings, one scoop with 300 mls of mik will give you 40gm of Protein. 2 shakes per day will last you 2.5 months. Each shake with milk is going to cost you around $1. That's cheaper than McD's. ON is actually top quality, you can find protein that is 80% as good for 2/3rds the cost, which for you is just fine.

I can't find the boxed protein on ebay, just scout around, you'll find a box for around $60.

There is no replacement for protein shakes. For most people it is too hard to get in the 80 extra grams 2 quick shakes will give you. Post work out is really the most important time, eat whatever protein the rest of the day (quality food though).

P.S. you are not ready for 5X5. Most of the vets on here will tell you 3X10 with the 5 core compund lifts for 6-9 months will do your really well. The hit the 5X5 and explode. It is going to take your muscle neurons 6 months of consistant training to build a balanced base. If you go to heavy 5X5 right now, you will not benefit as much as when you have a base.


----------



## suraj (Dec 23, 2011)

I will get some soon but for now all I am using is nesquick choclate milkshake power 1.5 tbs and 10 oz skim milk I think I will leave the eggs, Im not sure because evryone is saying different things, juggernaut says use milkshake for dex as a substitute for now you say dont use dex, I think milk and the nesquick might just do the same sort of thing but not as effectivly because it will give me  bit of protein with a bit of dex.
I really love geting all these answers but I dont know what I should do because all are different, at the minute I am planning on following the plan above made by juggernaut.


----------



## vancouver (Dec 23, 2011)

suraj said:


> I will get some soon but for now all I am using is nesquick choclate milkshake power 1.5 tbs and 10 oz skim milk I think I will leave the eggs, Im not sure because evryone is saying different things, juggernaut says use milkshake for dex as a substitute for now you say dont use dex, I think milk and the nesquick might just do the same sort of thing but not as effectivly because it will give me bit of protein with a bit of dex.
> I really love geting all these answers but I dont know what I should do because all are different, at the minute I am planning on following the plan above made by juggernaut.


 
Let me make it simple for you. If the method sounds advance and unconventional, then it will most likely not work more times than not. If it is one of those advanced methods which does work, the advantage will be marginal at best, so at the end of the day, if you are not a professional bodybuilder or high level athelete, you will see little benefit.

The theory of adding a simple sugar to your protein was just a theory based on the then available science. Basically, the theory goes like this; if you consume a simple sugar post workout, you will have a spike in insulin, more insulin will shuttle more amino acids into the muscle than with less insulin. It's a very logical theory. It is true that simple sugar will give you a greater insulin response and will carry more elements to their respected destinations. The problem with the theory is that it assumed that the muscle got more than what it would have otherwise; recent research has debunked this theory. You could eat absolutely no sugar after a workout and your muscles will use the protein you consume at the same rate. The research is less than a year old, so many guys will still follow the old thinking and will continue so for quite some time. Many protein company's formulas are based on this theory...they'll continue to preach the world is flat unitl it becomes obvious.

Stick to core compound exercises as Juggernaut has stated. Stick with 3X10 for at least 6 months before moving to 5X5, research has shown untrained muscle responds best to 10 reps and you will not get a greater response by increasing sets. Trained muscle responds best to 4 sets and the 7-8 rep range. 5X5 will build the greatest strenth for trained individuals and will also stimulating muscle growth. Swith to 4X8 after say 12 weeks and you'll see major gains. A lot fo the guys here will switch back and fourth between 5X5 and 4X8. 

When you look at the caloric intake calculation Juggernaut and I came up with, it was very close and for good reason, we understand this topic. Split the difference if you want. The truth is, not one formula works exactly the same for everyone. You have 3 major body types and sub body types; hard gainers, easy gainers. For you, none of this matters because you don't know your body yet. Stick to basics and build a base. If you are getting fat, cut your calories a bit. If you are not gaining muscle, up your fat a protein a bit. You will not know this for at least a year...maybe more.

Don't get cought up in wanting to get the best results with the best method, it will drive you crazy and take you off the main goal.

Take what is simple and what you like from Juggernaut and from me. Build a workout with goals, you goal should always be to either gain in reps or gain in weight lifted, muscle is a byproduct of reaching this goal and proper diet...


----------



## vancouver (Dec 23, 2011)

Taken from Elite Fitness, It does not quote the research, but the same article at Primordial Performance does... (just not going to spend the rest of my day finding it...)

Read this...... this applies to high GI pwo carbs and dieting.....

In order for a cell to acquire nutrients to use in energy production, the nutrients must be transported across the cell’s membrane. The hormone insulin is used to activate the transportation of nutrients into cells and is considered the “storage” hormone. insulin secretion causes the uptake of amino acids, free fatty acids, and especially glucose to be
increased. 

When one ingests carbohydrates, their blood glucose level, also referred to as their blood sugar level, is elevated, which causes insulin to be secreted. It is insulin’s job to return the blood glucose level back to a normal, homeostatic range. 

When insulin is secreted, the breakdown of stored nutrients (glycolysis, lipolysis etc.) is turned off and the storage of nutrients is turned on. It would be counterproductive
to breakdown stored glycogen to obtain glucose when glucose has just been ingested and is now in the bloodstream. This fact is important because when insulin is secreted, fat breakdown and oxidation is turned off! Therefore when one wants to increase fat oxidation to its fullest, insulin secretion needs to be limited.

The amount of insulin needed to return blood glucose levels back to normal after ingesting a given amount of glucose is called insulin sensitivity. Individuals have differing insulin sensitivities based mainly on their diet, activity level, and genetic factors. In most cases, an ectomorph and mesomorph are more insulin sensitive than endomorphs; this is one of the primary factors that cause endomorphs to gain fat more easily than ectomorphs and mesomorphs. An endomorph will need to secrete more insulin to shuttle a given amount of glucose into cells and therefore fat oxidation will be halted for longer than an ectomorph or mesomorph. Therefore, an endomorph needs to
pay more attention to insulin secretion in order to keep gains lean. 

The body does not like it when glucose is floating around in the blood stream, so after a meal the body increases the uptake and oxidation of glucose to get rid of it. Over time, consistently elevated blood glucose levels can lead to cells becoming insensitive to insulin or insulin resistant, meaning more insulin most be secreted to return blood glucose levels to normal and therefore fat oxidation is blunted longer If endomorphs must secrete more insulin to return blood glucose levels to normal, then they are at a disadvantage when its comes to staying lean while bulking because fat oxidation will be turned off longer for them than an ectomorph or mesomorph
and there is a greater chance for them to become more insulin resistant. 

Before we continue I want to point out why there is great emphasis placed on muscle glycogen levels. Building new muscle proteins and adding inches to your arms is not a priority to the body. The body will not create new muscle proteins when it senses it is in need of energy. When muscle has a lot of glycogen, the body senses it has enough “extra” energy and can build new muscle proteins effectively. If muscle glycogen levels
are depleted, the body must replete glycogen stores in addition to increasing protein synthesis, both of which require energy and nutrients. Therefore, when gaining muscle is
your goal, you want to have adequate muscle glycogen stores so more energy can be focused on protein synthesis. Now this is an isolated examination of muscle growth because there are many other factors besides glycogen stores that govern whether one
gains muscle or not. Let’s take a deeper look at the metabolic factors affecting glucose
uptake.

insulin promotes glucose uptake through the synthesis and translocation of the GLUT-4 glucose transporter, found on skeletal and cardiac muscle cells and adipocytes.
In the absence of insulin, the GLUT-4 transporters lay under the cell’s surface. When insulin is secreted, the GLUT-4 transporter translocates to the cell’s surface allowing glucose to enter into the cell. There are other glucose transporters, but the GLUT-4 transporter is our primary concern. Enzymes are protein molecules that catalyze (speed up) metabolic reactions. In the case of glucose uptake, there are two we will examine: hexokinase and glucokinase.

The enzyme hexokinase is found in skeletal muscle and promotes glucose uptake independently of blood glucose levels. Hexokinase has a high affinity for glucose, which allows muscle to take up glucose from the blood even when blood glucose levels are low. Once the muscle has the glucose, it keeps it for itself and the muscle does not release glucose back into the bloodstream. insulin secretion further enhances glucose uptake in addition to hexokinase’s actions. The enzyme glucokinase is found in the Liver and is activated when blood glucose levels are increased. Contrast to skeletal muscle, the Liver is in service to all other cells of the body, so when it senses other cells need glucose it releases glucose and sends it to the other cells. Skeletal muscle holds on to its glucose for itself but the Liver releases its stored glucose for other cells to use when they need it. Hexokinase is basically acting all the time to give muscle glucose but glucokinase is only acting in the presence of high blood glucose levels. What does all of this mean? It means that you do not need to jack insulin through the roof for your muscles to get glucose! In fact, it gets even better.

Exercise, especially resistance training, has been shown to increase GLUT-4 translocation on skeletal muscle in the absence of insulin, meaning after your lift weights you do not need insulin for your muscles to uptake glucose. While insulin will certainly enhance the anabolic response of a meal post workout, slamming 100 grams of dextrose (pure glucose) is not needed since skeletal muscle is already able to uptake glucose in the absence of insulin after a workout. Increasing the glucose content of skeletal muscle (in the form of glycogen) is beneficial for gaining muscle, but remember that GLUT-4 transporters also exist on fat cells and therefore insulin secretion promotes the storage of glucose in both skeletal muscle and fat cells. Therefore, one needs to increase the storage of glucose in skeletal muscle and decrease the storage of glucose in fat cells; this can be done by consuming low glycemic carbohydrates such as oatmeal post-workout instead of high glycemic carbs like dextrose.

In summary, it is not necessary to jack blood glucose and insulin levels through the roof in order to replenish glycogen and gain muscle. Skeletal muscle is able to uptake glucose whenever it needs it. In addition, skeletal muscle is primed to uptake glucose after exercise. By controlling your insulin levels you can gain lean mass while keeping fat gains to a minimum.


----------



## suraj (Dec 23, 2011)

I have been lifting 3 days a week but going to up it to 4, I have realised that I can lift heavier now, I have been consuming about 1900 on off days and about 2400 on workout days, when will I see visual difference I am not sure about using the scale because with me I dont know why but it just keeps going up and down by about half a stone, never goes slowly...So should I skip the post workout chocolate milkshake?


----------



## vancouver (Dec 23, 2011)

suraj said:


> I have been lifting 3 days a week but going to up it to 4, I have realised that I can lift heavier now, I have been consuming about 1900 on off days and about 2400 on workout days, when will I see visual difference I am not sure about using the scale because with me I dont know why but it just keeps going up and down by about half a stone, never goes slowly...So should I skip the post workout chocolate milkshake?


 
Don't expect to see much for the first 3 months. Right now, your body is saying to you, "what the fuck are you doing to me". Your body is not currently in an anabolic state. It has not been long enough for your body to adapt to the stress you are putting on it. In time, your body is going to say, "Fuck, you are serious, you're going to continue to do this to me"; at which point your body will begin to adapt to it's new environment by building muscle. Do this long enough an you will actually change your body's chemistry. This is why trained lifters can gain much of the muscle they have lost on a layoff very quickly after returning to the gym, it's called muscle memory. To be trained, you must have trained at high intensity for a year or longer. Research has shown that individuals who trained for less than 6 months did not experience muscle memory, thier body's did not fully adapt. After a 5 year layoff of heavy lifting, I returned to the gym last year. I put on 15 -18lbs of muscle in 4 months. This is with Low T. You see, my body had adapted to this amount of muscle before, so there was no question as to putting it back on.

So to answer your question. Consentrate more in making it to the 1 year mark. If you do, your body will know how to do it again very quickly for the rest of your life. I would suspect that you'll see a difference in the mirror in 3 months. In 6 months it will be more significant and in 1 year it will be dramatic. But here is the thing; in 1 year you will not remember the way you looked 1 year ago. The results will only be dramatic if you look at before and after pics (so make sure you take some for future motivation).

There are guys on this board who are your height, 200lbs and ripped, but they look in the mirror and think they are small. If they were to look at pics of the starting point, their jaws would hit the floor...

I've been there man, you are going to get depressed from time to time with your results. This is why your goals should be strength and not so much body image. The former will come if you consitantly reach new strength goals. If you make this about image, sorry, you will fail for years until it hits you. This is why skinny fat people stay skinny fat people...

You do not have to up your workouts to 4X per week. The 5 core compound movements 3X per week as I layed out in your other thread is way more than enough stress on your muscle. In fact, when you switch to 5X5, you will have to skip the odd workout to recouperate. Make it a goal to increse the weight you are lifting each workout by 5lbs. If you can't lift more the next workout, you have to do more reps with the same weight. As soon as your are not able to do either, your muscles will stop having a reason to adapt, they will stop growing.

Example

Mondy bench press. 100 lbs. 10X3
Friday bench press. 105 lbs. 10 reps, 9 reps and 7 or 8 reps on 3rd set, because it's all you can do.
Wednesday bench press. 105 lbs. 10X3
Monday bench press. 110 lbs. 10 reps, 8 reps, 6 reps.
Thursday bench press. 110 lbs. 10 reps, 10 reps, 8 reps...

and so on...

Fitting in a 4th day is going to make it very difficult for you to make gains on all 5 compound movements week in week out.

I promise you that a power lifter who only does clean and jerk 2X per week will make better gains than you because it all boils down to lifting more and diet.

A 3 day split has you working the same body part on average 1.5X per week. If you switch to a 4 day split, you will only be able to train 1X per week (not enough for young trainee) or 2X per week (way too much for any trainee)

Post workout "protein" shake is essential...


----------



## suraj (Dec 23, 2011)

I found this on a different forum and the person doing it said he saw great results and he was taking breaks every 8 weeks so he didnt over do it.

Day 1: Chest/Triceps 
flat bench press 
- warm up x 3-4 sets
3x6-8
Incline bench (30 degress)
3x6-8
weighted dips
- warm up (on "dip assist machine") 1 set
3x6-8
close grip bench press
3x6-8
cable tri extension
2x6-8


Day 2: Legs/calves 
Squats
- warm up 3-4 sets
3x6-8
legg press
3x6-8
legg curls
warm up - 1 set
3x6-8
standing calf raises
3x6-8

Day 3: OFF

Day 4: Back/Biceps/forearms 
pull-ups
(warm-up with lat pull down) 3-4 sets
3x6-8
one arm dumb bell row
warm-up - 1 set
3x6-8
bent over BB row
3x6-8
standing bar bell curls (EZ bar)
3x6-8
standing reverse hammer curls (fore arm)
3x6-8
seated fore arm curls (forearm on leg)
3x6-8
close grip pull ups (chin-ups)
2x6-8

Day 5: OFF

Day 6: Shoulders/traps 
Military press
- warm up 3-4 sets
3x6-8
Side lateral raises
3x6-8
DB shrugs
3x6-8

Day 7: OFF

Is this not suitable? Is it too much even with the 1 week off ever 8 weeks?


----------



## vancouver (Dec 23, 2011)

As I said earlier, I could put a person on a clean & Jurk program (that is one olympic lift) 2x per week for 6 months and they will make better gains than the program you just posted, so long as diet in good.

It looks like you are falling into the trap that all of us experienced lifters have in the beginning. It would be refreshing if a young guy just listend and followed the 5 major compound movements and believed...the results would be amazing.

The challenge is, you don't understand how the body adapts and grows. You want to use mainly functional movements so that your body builds on its own weaknesses. If you do 20 or 30 excersises each weak, you will develope weaknesses and in the long-run, your gains will suffer.

How many high school or college coaches would put their athelets on the program you posted? Zero. How many MMA chapions use the program you posted? Zero. How many of these atheletes do the 5 core lifts, or olympic variations of them? Well, pretty well all of them.

My gym caters to mainly atheletes, Pro and college football players, olympic athelets, the Canadian ski and Snowboard teams, etc, etc. Most of the plates in the gym are bumper plates (rubber), why? Because they are getting tossed around. Clean & Jerk, Push Press, etc, etc.

The long complicated programs you see on the net and in mags are for people on steroids or for people who haven't figured things out yet, I was one of those people for 10 of the last 22 years. Take it for what it is...

98% of the guys on this board could not do this...and she's a chick!!






YouTube Video


----------



## suraj (Dec 23, 2011)

Wow she is STRONG!!!!, thank you for your advice and saving me from doing any harm to myself, so you are says do 2-3 workouts a week? also do you agree that juggernauts diet plan will be okay to follow for a begginer? 
Do you have a workout I could follow every week and just add more reps and weights to it please, it would make it allot easier and allot less confusing for example, I have monday morning, tue full day and fri full day off when I am at college so they would be great days to workout, could you put a nice plan together please? if it will take too much of your time you could allways just give me a basic guide to follow, again thank you very much for all the help, if you didnt tell me that I would have probably done my back in next week.


----------



## vancouver (Dec 23, 2011)

Monday Morning

Squat 3X10 (3 warmup sets)
Bench Press 3X10 (3 warmup sets)
BB Row 3X10
Deadlift 3X10

Friday

Squat 3X10 (3 warmup sets)
Bench Press 3X10 (3 warmup sets)
BB Row 3X10
Deadlift 3X10

Repeat Tuesday/Friday
Repeat Monday/Friday
Etc.

Do this for 6 months. Then start 5X5, you'll need to train 3X per week, the above program will not work. Monday Bench, BB Row, Deads. Wednesday Squat, overhead press. Friday repeat Monday, etc. (this is my program only right now I'm doing 4X8

You can follow Juggernauts meal plan or spread it out evenly everyday throughout the week, it does not matter, what ever is easiest. In the long-run there will be no difference. I usually eat a few more calories on workout days and less on rest days...

good luck, I'm off to the gym.


----------



## suraj (Dec 24, 2011)

Perfect, thank you very much for your help, I will combine your workout with jggernauts eating plan, might alter the eating plan a bit if I dont gain, I will follow all these exercises as listed above, you have saved me allot of time and effort, THANK YOU!!!
I am amazed, will doing these exercises build the full body nicely, will I need to add to them exercises or is that the full plan? So I dont need to do any military press's or bicep curls anymore?? IF NOT, WOOHOOO!!! im loving the new plan, should I do it so that by the time I get the first 10 I cant lift any more, then take a break and then do other 2 sets?
I will use the high carb 2 workout days and the low carb will be wed and sat and moderate carbs sun and thur. Should I check my scales every 1 week because I gained about half a stone which is obviously water weight but I am not sure when I will get a true measurement.
Again, Thank you so much for this information, it is really going to help me allot.


----------



## suraj (Dec 24, 2011)

Also, if I eat juggernauts plan will I be able to tell if its working by lifting heavier on my next workout and having minimum fat gain or will I have to weigh myself weekly? Because my scales go up in stones and kg so makes it hard to see 0.8 pounds gain or loss, I think I might invest in some better scales, more accurate, or should I just take body measurements and make sure I can lift atleast 3kg every week or 10 kg every 2 weeks.


----------



## juggernaut (Dec 24, 2011)

suraj said:


> Also, if I eat juggernauts plan will I be able to tell if its working by lifting heavier on my next workout and having minimum fat gain or will I have to weigh myself weekly? Because my scales go up in stones and kg so makes it hard to see 0.8 pounds gain or loss, I think I might invest in some better scales, more accurate, or should I just take body measurements and make sure I can lift atleast 3kg every week or 10 kg every 2 weeks.



A scale is ok, but don't hinge your life on it. Go by what the mirror says and how your clothes fit. Expect a bit of fat gain, but this is a calorie surplus, and get over it. Take measurements weekly, go on the scale once a week and a great method is to take pictures every month to really see improvements.


----------



## suraj (Dec 24, 2011)

Great, thanks for your advice, so you think it will be okay combining your diet with vancouver's workout plan?


----------



## juggernaut (Dec 24, 2011)

suraj said:


> Great, thanks for your advice, so you think it will be okay combining your diet with vancouver's workout plan?



Actually, no I don't. You need to concentrate on low reps and high weight. What I outlined has helped many of my clients.


----------



## suraj (Dec 24, 2011)

Oh ok, should I do it now? because I am a begginer and can only do about 30 kg, I was wondering also on your plan, does it mean do 1 day workout A 1 day workout B and 1 day HIIT or does it mean 2 days workout with 2 HIIT and another HIIT day, And the 4 day rest should I do 2 days low carb and 2 mantainance or 3 low carb 1 mantainance, I was also wondering should I take the complex carbs before HIIT and simple carbs after with protein just like a workout or is it different?
LAST QUESTION: do I do 5 sets of 5 reps each exercise all same weight?


----------



## juggernaut (Dec 24, 2011)

suraj said:


> Oh ok, should I do it now? because I am a begginer and can only do about 30 kg, I was wondering also on your plan, does it mean do 1 day workout A 1 day workout B and 1 day HIIT or does it mean 2 days workout with 2 HIIT and another HIIT day, And the 4 day rest should I do 2 days low carb and 2 mantainance or 3 low carb 1 mantainance, I was also wondering should I take the complex carbs before HIIT and simple carbs after with protein just like a workout or is it different?
> LAST QUESTION: do I do 5 sets of 5 reps each exercise all same weight?



YES do it now!
Alternate the workouts like this and on the days you workout, have higher carbs. On the rest days, use the lower carbs:
Week 1
Sunday Workout A *High carb*
Monday Rest *Low carb*
Tuesday Workout B *High carb*
Wednesday Rest *Low carb*
Thursday Workout A *High carb *
Friday Rest *Low carb*
Saturday *Low carb*

Week 2
Sunday B
Monday 
Tuesday A
Wednesday
Thursday B
Friday
Saturday

Week 3
Sunday A
Monday 
Tuesday B
Wednesday
Thursday A
Friday
Saturday
...and so on...

LAST QUESTION: Keep the weight the same for the entire set of 5. After you can successfully complete a full 5x5, then move up to a heavier weight. I would suggest for upper body a 5lb total increase, for lower body a 10lbs total increase. 
_Lastly, start out lighter than you know you can handle and work the form. You will eventually get to a sticking point and that will be where the challenge will begin._


----------



## suraj (Dec 24, 2011)

SO HELPFULL!!! Thank you, I understand it all now but the HIIT, how do I fit that into the plan, is HIIT on all workout days? and HIIT lasts 20 mins 30 sec sprint 30 sec jog 30 sec walk then repeat? Is the nutrition same for HIIT (Complex carb load before workout and simple carb after workout)?


----------



## juggernaut (Dec 24, 2011)

suraj said:


> SO HELPFULL!!! Thank you, I understand it all now but the HIIT, how do I fit that into the plan, is HIIT on all workout days? and HIIT lasts 20 mins 30 sec sprint 30 sec jog 30 sec walk then repeat? Is the nutrition same for HIIT (Complex carb load before workout and simple carb after workout)?



Pretty much yes on all questions asked, but I did say to use a mix of carbs and protein to get the best for your recovery. 
If you get bored of the 30/30 intervals google some ideas to fit your skill level. Just dont overdo it. On rest days-REST.


----------



## suraj (Dec 24, 2011)

So I do them on training days so do HIIT 3 days a week after or before the workout? And the mix of carbs and protein meaning go up on proteina and lower carbs and then lower on protein keeping it above 130 but lower than 160 and higher carbs?


----------



## juggernaut (Dec 24, 2011)

Definitely after the workouts doing the HIIT.  
A decent ratio for post workout is 2:1 carbs to protein. So, 40g for carbs, 20g for protein.


----------



## suraj (Dec 24, 2011)

Great, thank you for the very helpful information, will it effect my muscle growth doing HIIT after working out?
Should I workout and then have my protein and dex and then hour after that my meal and then wait about 1 hour and HIIT then another post workout meal or should I do the workout and have the pro/carbs and then do the HIIT and do the pro/carbs again or should I go with option 3: do workout then instantly after that 20 mins of HIIT then after that have my post workout nutrition?(Should all carbs on the 2:1 ratio be simple(Dex) or a mixture of simple and complex) because the milk in my post workout milkshake also contains carbs.
Also since I am doing HIIT will this make me loose body fat while building lean muscle? because I thought you needed a calorie sulprus to gain and defect to loose.


----------



## suraj (Dec 24, 2011)

Does anybody know if I follow juggernauts plan of bulking will I loose some weight too?
The main reason being is that IT IS ALLMOST CHRISTMAS!!!! I have binge ate so much...and I am sure I will gain some weight, not muscle...FAT.


----------



## vancouver (Dec 24, 2011)

you cannot gain muscle without fat, it is not possible, unless you use steriods which clearly you should not. Since you are untrained, it is possible for you to put on muscle without too much fat, but not for long.

In order for you to gain muscle, you must be in calorie surplus. Not all the colories you take in will build muscle, some will be stored as fat. When you are in a calorie deficit, you will, first use glycogen stores, then muscle and lastly fat as energy; you must lose muslce to loose fat. The trick is to try to preserve as much muscle as possible through training and diet.

E.g., Over the last 12 months I've gained about 25lbs. (part of this was muscle rebound). I've gained about 18-20lbs of muscle and about 5-7lbs of fat. I've now been cutting for 3 weeks and will continue to for another 10-15 weeks. In order for me too lose the fat I've put on, I'm going to have to lose muscle. To lose 7lbs of fat, I'm likely going to lose 3-5lbs of muscle. The net amount of muscle I'll keep is in the 13-15lb range; this will be natural gains.

If I continue to train naturally over the next year, I'll be lucky to put on another 5-6lbs of lean mass, doing the exact same thing, get fat, then cut; the goals is to net some lean mass. I don't plan to remain naural as I'm already running below normal T levels.

If you put on 20lbs of lean mass over the next 12 month, 10lbs in 2012, 5 lbs thereafter for 3 years; in 5 years you'll be a ripped 170lb (you'll look like GSP), thing is, you'll probably gain a little fat along the way which should still produce visible abs, so many 175, 180.

Here's the thing though. 2% of guys who start down this jouney actually do it. You should be looking 5 years into the future, not what you'll look like this year, because I promise you that everthing you do will fall short of expectation.


----------



## suraj (Dec 25, 2011)

Okay, thank you that was confusing me allot but all clear now.


----------



## suraj (Dec 25, 2011)

I HEARD you can loose weight while gaining newb gains, I think I will get allot of newb gain because I can only lift like 30kg I am very weak because I lost allot of muscle on my 1200 cal diet, I used to be able to lift allot more because I used to work in a car repair shop and was allways working physicaly, at college studying now so didnt get any exercise so I went on that stupid diet...never do a low cal diet they suck.

Also, for the exercises juggernaut listed: 5x5 workouts
Can I use dumbels instead of barbell for squats and military press? just because I dont have much space to use the barbell properly and when I do I have to get back onto the bench to put the bar back, do the dumbels use the same muscles because I been told they use more muscles than the barbell?
Also for the chin ups, I dont have any pull up bars or anything will it be okay just to pull myself up onto my shed roof using my hands facing away from me technique, or will doing a lying down row on the bench with barbell use the same muscles?


----------



## juggernaut (Dec 25, 2011)

Yes, for a while dumbbells will be fine.
Google dumbbell goblet squats. They're a suitable exercise to actually learn the squat form, but I strongly suggest you deadlift until you can get a squat rack or power rack.
In the case of the chins substitute, anything that you can do from a dead hang is fine.


----------



## suraj (Dec 25, 2011)

Great thanks for your help so:

Follow the diet you prepared and eat clean.

5x5 on all sets except where noted:
Day 1
Back Squats - USE DUMBELLS
Bench Press
Rows
RDLs
Military Press - USE DUMBELLS
Chins 

5x5 on all sets except where noted:
Day 2
Deadlift
Rows
Incline Bench Press
RDLs
Military Press - USE DUMBELS
Chins 

All the others I can do with barbell, use maximum weights I can on all 5x5

Few Questions:
Following your advice all listed above I think will be ok if not please say.

My HIIT training nutrition: Right, so I do my workout, the HIIT and then I have my milkshake to restore my carbs and protein at a 2:1 ratio (40carb/20pro) or should I take the nutrition after the workout, then have a meal an hour after and then HIIT an hour after meal and then after that nutrition? 

Should I add a few egg whites to my post workout nesquick milkshake(10oz skim milk 1 tbs milkshake powder)? I am geting Whey very soon.

Since I am a begginer will I loose some weight body fat too while following this diet and workout routine, because I have heard while geting newb gains you can loose some body fat.

Again just want to say thanks for spending all this time helping me reach my goals, really means allot to me that I am geting so much great help from such experts.

And 1 final question: Will this plan help me transform my body from being skinny fat to nicer leaner body with smaller or no chest fat or will I have to do this then change to a cut?


----------



## juggernaut (Dec 25, 2011)

suraj said:


> Great thanks for your help so:
> 
> Follow the diet you prepared and eat clean.
> 
> ...



Holy shit dude, you need to stop over thinking this. 

About an hour before the workout (some fruit and some whey or milk); 
Train and THEN do hiit right after the weight training. 
Eat right after with the recommended ratio. 
Eat about an hour later.

THATS IT.

Sure knock yourself out with some egg whites.


----------



## suraj (Dec 25, 2011)

Ahh great, thanks, I allways end up taking things too far with everything just like my weight loss diet, I started clean cutting then all a suden dropped all out from overthinking and lost all my muscle, I will follow the simple tips you have given me and not go overboard, its just that I am skinny fat and have been trying to loose this look for AGES, I just hope this will do it.


----------



## suraj (Dec 29, 2011)

Im back  Just done a bit of research and I am starting to wonder, is this a recomp diet/workout plan? Also, listened to others and they said eat 2500+ cals which I dont think I should have, they also said workout 5 days a week which I probably shouldnt have, I am now about 143 lbs I think mainly water weight with a bit of fat...can I still follow your plan or have all the ratios and calories changed?


----------



## davidjohnston (Dec 29, 2011)

Get a chocolate milkshake down you I'd say, after a workout.  For the time being that would probably give you what you need.  

As you get more into it, and learn more about what you're doing, you can then get big into fine tuning what your body needs.


----------



## Boomer182 (Dec 30, 2011)

Mine:
Whey Protein 50 mg
Creatine 
Gaba before bed


----------



## banker23 (Dec 30, 2011)

suraj said:


> Im back  Just done a bit of research and I am starting to wonder, is this a recomp diet/workout plan? Also, listened to others and they said eat 2500+ cals which I dont think I should have, they also said workout 5 days a week which I probably shouldnt have, I am now about 143 lbs I think mainly water weight with a bit of fat...can I still follow your plan or have all the ratios and calories changed?


 
AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Bro, juggs has given you a ton of advice and you keep going around and around with every wind of advice that you read like a sailboat without a rudder.

Pick a plan and stop looking at other plans until you've given yourself at least 60 days to measure some results. That goes for diet _and _training. Maybe start a training journal in the journal section to track your progress but you aren't going to go wrong following juggs advice...no need to add to or subtract from until AFTER you've gauged its effectiveness (at least 60 days dedicated to following the plan).


----------



## nugget13 (Dec 30, 2011)

suraj said:


> Im back  Just done a bit of research and I am starting to wonder, is this a recomp diet/workout plan? Also, listened to others and they said eat 2500+ cals which I dont think I should have, they also said workout 5 days a week which I probably shouldnt have, I am now about 143 lbs I think mainly water weight with a bit of fat...can I still follow your plan or have all the ratios and calories changed?


 


banker23 said:


> AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!
> 
> Bro, juggs has given you a ton of advice and you keep going around and around with every wind of advice that you read like a sailboat without a rudder.
> 
> Pick a plan and stop looking at other plans until you've given yourself at least 60 days to measure some results. That goes for diet _and _training. Maybe start a training journal in the journal section to track your progress but you aren't going to go wrong following juggs advice...no need to add to or subtract from until AFTER you've gauged its effectiveness (at least 60 days dedicated to following the plan).


 
this

it's like you are blatantly ignoring every bit of advice you are given. If you don't want to take our advice, don't. But stop posting a new thread about it every fucking day.

if you knew half the shit you think you do, you would not be coming here begging for tips on how to get jacked


----------



## suraj (Dec 31, 2011)

I am *DEIFINATLY NOT IGNORING* you, the reason I as so many questions is if you read what I typed up in the past I said:

"I was on a very low calorie diet (1200 cal) allmost caused me an eating disorder and if that wasnt enough I was jogging 9 miles 3 days a week and also doing HIIT...."

Why was this?
Because I listened to one person and didnt do my *RESEARCH, *if I would have been smart and spent a little more time asking a few questions about what my diet what should be like and what I should be doing I wouldnt have been at this stage right now...I am trying to plan it smartly and not be stupid and go to the gym 7 days a week and not eat right, that was my initial plan...after asking a few people to help me with a plan I have realised I only need 3 days and I know exactly what to eat and when to eat, if I didnt ask these questions and didnt do any research I would have probably had a major injury.


----------



## banker23 (Dec 31, 2011)

suraj said:


> I am *DEIFINATLY NOT IGNORING* you, the reason I as so many questions is if you read what I typed up in the past I said:
> 
> "I was on a very low calorie diet (1200 cal) allmost caused me an eating disorder and if that wasnt enough I was jogging 9 miles 3 days a week and also doing HIIT...."
> 
> ...


 
All we're saying is pick a plan and stick to it for a few months before looking to modify it...part of your original problem is you were throwing too much into the mix with restrictive dieting, crazy HIIT etc. You came here for advice and got some of the best advice from some of the most knowledgable people on here. Look at juggs training journal: he knows what he's doing. 

he gave you a simple first step in your training program. You will ned to revisit in about 60 days to evaluate what's working, what you may need to add, and what may need to be changed. 

You don't need to research this much when it comes to training and basic nutrition. It's not like you're doing anything unnatural like AAS or PH. All the research doesn't matter anyways because you have to see how your body responds. And guess what, as you develop the way your body responds will continue to change so you have a constantly moving target.

Just start with the basic plan and you will get results; we will be glad to give more advice when you need it but 6 hours or 6 days after receiving it is not sufficient to show that you've put anything into practice.

As Yoda says:

"Do. Or do not. There is no try."

or Nike:

"just do it."

I can't say it any better than that.


----------



## suraj (Dec 31, 2011)

Thank you, I had tried the plan and felt weak that is why I did even more research than what was needed, I realised I can lift more and still have energy when I eat more cals, I just wanted to make sure I didnt do anything wrong that would stop me from working out on the next week, I have received great advice from allot of people on this forum, I understand it might be geting annoying with me asking all these questions but I want to do this long term...I want to change my lifestyle early so it isnt hard when I finish from my newbie gains, I want it SPOT ON so when I stop geting newbie gains I wont stall and have to ask all these questions then.

I just wanted to sum it all up and say I have learnt allot, you wont hear much from me since I have had allmost all my questions answered and just wanted to say THANK YOU to you all for spending the time to help me. Hope none of you feel asthough I have ignored you because as I previously mentioned I have deinatly not ignored anybody, I have been taking notes all the way through and know exactly what to do now.


----------



## suraj (Dec 31, 2011)

Okay, so 1 last question and I will stay away from the reply button and show you my results in a about 60 days time, 
So eating sweets and simple carbs spikes your insulin which stores fat, now milk...I have done some research and cant find a answer, milk has lactose, full fat has less than skim, my question is will having milk with my oats cause much insulin spike since I am taking carbs with lactose will it make much difference?

The reason I ask this is because I love my oats and eat ALLOT, I am wondering should I start cuting this down a bit in the future and also I eat these in the night, about an hour before I go to sleep and have cotage cheese about 1/2 hour before I sleep, is this okay?

THAT IS MY LAST QUESTION SO PLEASE DONT GET ANNOYED, I PROMISE I WILL NOT ASK ANY MORE QUESTIONS ON HERE UNLESS I AM NOT SEEING RESULTS.


----------



## Powermaster (Dec 31, 2011)

suraj said:


> Okay, so 1 last question and I will stay away from the reply button and show you my results in a about 60 days time,
> So eating sweets and simple carbs spikes your insulin which stores fat, now milk...I have done some research and cant find a answer, milk has lactose, full fat has less than skim, my question is will having milk with my oats cause much insulin spike since I am taking carbs with lactose will it make much difference?
> 
> The reason I ask this is because I love my oats and eat ALLOT, I am wondering should I start cuting this down a bit in the future and also I eat these in the night, about an hour before I go to sleep and have cotage cheese about 1/2 hour before I sleep, is this okay?
> ...



Regarding Milk/Oats: Any food or combination of foods with over 40 to 50 grms of carbs total consumed at one sitting will spike insulin.

Cottage cheese 1/2 hour before bed is OK.

Don't worry about annoying people. Without new people asking questions this place would be boring. If they don't like what you ask then they should not reply.


----------



## suraj (Dec 31, 2011)

Thank you for all the help, really helping me because I didnt have a clue about anything before I started this forum and appreciate you helping me, powermaster, I would like to thank you very much too because I have realised you have helped me with so much, allmost every question I have asked you have answered too, thanks 
So will my insulin never spike with complex carbs or is that just a myth?


----------



## Powermaster (Dec 31, 2011)

suraj said:


> So will my insulin never spike with complex carbs or is that just a myth?



I'm not 100% certain but tend to think that is true since insulin spikes are caused by elevated blood glucose levels (fast digesting carbs & sugars).

You are welcome.


----------



## suraj (Dec 31, 2011)

Apparently milk slows down your digestion and wont spike your insulin and the fats in full fat milk will slow down digestion, but I dont see any bodybuilders having milk with there oats in the morning or ever...is there some reason why allmost all bodybuilders take water with there oats instead of milk?


----------



## nugget13 (Jan 1, 2012)

just drink the fucking milk, your goal is to gain weight. You are making this unnecessarily complicated for yourself. 

You are not a bodybuilder, you are a skinnyfat average human being who wants to gain muscle. Don't worry about how they prepare themselves for a show, their goals are not the same as yours.


----------



## andreaus (Jan 31, 2012)

chocolate whey and a frozen banana f---in great !!!! !


----------



## desmorris (Jan 31, 2012)

Eat what ever you thing is better for you. 18 year aged men need every thing for his body and you are ignoring many thing. Eat  balance diet..


----------



## hypo_glycemic (Feb 1, 2012)

Try and get 1 gram of protein per body pound coming from Macro Nutrients (whole foods) . Don't worry about carbs so much right now. If you drink micro nutrients (fillers) then add a cup of oats to your shakes. Eat plenty of hormonal type meats- such as read meat and get plenty of fluids. You can also take a casein protein such as cottage cheese or a casein filler before bed to keep you from going catabolic ( where the body feeds off muscle for food IMO!


Sent Via Tapatalk


----------



## wraggejxk (Feb 8, 2012)




----------

