# P90x



## HeyWaj10 (Jan 9, 2007)

Anyone happen to see the "infomercial" about it?  I mean, of all things they market today, I'd have to say this actually looks legit.  It's a 12 DVD set that provides a different focal area on each one, basically following a 2-3 week on/1 week off routine, for 90 days.  It also gives a diet plan to follow.  I mean, if I had the money/time/sources to do it, I'd prolly do it.  Check it out, but I still think the commercial for it was much better than the site.

http://www.beachbody.com/jump.jsp?itemID=63&itemType=CATEGORY


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## Witchblade (Jan 10, 2007)

Nah, wouldn't buy it.


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## P-funk (Jan 10, 2007)

I have seen the infomercial.  The concept seems fine....workout intensly 3x's a week, follow the diet and use the periodization model.  All of those things are things that we talk about here.

I don't know what is on the videos, so I can't comment on their validity or content.

What I can say is....

1) are plyometrics for everyone?

2) up to a certain point, how intense can you train in your own home with weights?  After awhile, those 15lb DBs are going to seem pretty light.

3) everything works, but nothing works forever.  what do you do when it stops working?  where do you go from there?

4) should everyone be throwing punches and kicks?  Again, same as the plyos....without serious instruction in these type of things, you could injure yourself.

5) Things like "ab ripper" immediatly turn me off.

6) why waste time with "shoulders and arms" when you can save time doing things that make you move your entire body?  As hard as those workouts 'appear' to be on the commercial, I bet if you went through a workout of upper/lower body compound movement supersets you would be completly defeated.

7) those are actors in the commercial, that look good, that are there to make money, and to help sell a product.  Do you really believe that those people in the commercial only do this type of exercise?  OR better yet, do you believe they use the program at all?


In the end it comes down to a few.  After doing this for a significant amount of time and working with a large number of people, there are a few conclusions I have come to that "work", no matter what....

1) diet has to be healthy
2) workouts need to be intense (including cardio)
3) you need to train your whole body with compound movements.


If you properly do those three things.  I can garuntee you weight loss.


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## HeyWaj10 (Jan 10, 2007)

I was just seeing what you guys thought about it, and obviously it's just another waste of time...I figured as much.  Believe me, I don't do anything like the video shows and I DO do compound exercises.  Hell, I'm probably the only guy in my school gym that doesn't designate an "arms" day.  I incorporate arms with whatever movement I'm doing on that particular day.  Btw, P-Funk, for one day I'd love to work out with you...I know I'd get my ass kicked, but would enjoy every second of it


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## Squaggleboggin (Jan 12, 2007)

HeyWaj10 said:


> I was just seeing what you guys thought about it, and obviously it's just another waste of time...I figured as much.  Believe me, I don't do anything like the video shows and I DO do compound exercises.  Hell, I'm probably the only guy in my school gym that doesn't designate an "arms" day.  I incorporate arms with whatever movement I'm doing on that particular day.  Btw, P-Funk, for one day I'd love to work out with you...I know I'd get my ass kicked, but would enjoy every second of it



Have your mom call his mom - it's a play date!

Had to...


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## Gazhole (Jan 14, 2007)

Squaggleboggin said:


> Have your mom call his mom - it's a play date!
> 
> Had to...


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## chrsimage (Sep 29, 2008)

*P90x Works*

I've completed the P90x and I can tell you it definately works, though it is kind of strict.  But no stricter then any excercise program that you expect results from.  My experience was I lost 22 lbs.  My body LOOKED visibly better. (I had more muscle definaition, more vascularity).  I felt stronger.  I did not become absolutely "Ripped", but that is probably because I did not follow the diet to the "T".  I still drank alcohol and the last month I didnt follow the diet that well.  That being said, I was so impressed that I became a marketer of the product.  Everyone that I sold a P90x to and followed the program was completely satisfied.  I would be happy to answer any questions regarding my personal experience.


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## Lost Grizzly (Sep 29, 2008)

I have used it off and on and it works.  I don't follow it like the program wants you too.  I would only use it for he cardio and pop a DVD in and hit it.  I think the plyometrics is the best, but if you ask my wife she will tell you it is the worst.  The KempoX is also a good one.


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## JailHouse (Sep 30, 2008)

Why would you waste your money on that bs.  You have found ironmagforums.com, now search, read, and learn.  There is a million times more info on this site than you could ever fit in a p90x video.


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## Gazhole (Sep 30, 2008)

JailHouse said:


> Why would you waste your money on that bs. You have found ironmagforums.com, now search, read, and learn. There is a million times more info on this site than you could ever fit in a p90x video.



Amen to that.


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## Merkaba (Sep 30, 2008)

chrsimage said:


> I've completed the P90x and I can tell you it definately works, though it is kind of strict.  But no stricter then any excercise program that you expect results from.  My experience was I lost 22 lbs.  My body LOOKED visibly better. (I had more muscle definaition, more vascularity).  I felt stronger.  I did not become absolutely "Ripped", but that is probably because I did not follow the diet to the "T".  I still drank alcohol and the last month I didnt follow the diet that well.  That being said, I was so impressed that I became a marketer of the product.  Everyone that I sold a P90x to and followed the program was completely satisfied.  I would be happy to answer any questions regarding my personal experience.



Right, first post, with a p90x store link in your sig!    


All the programs work because they all deal with working out and dieting.  

So give me the 120 bucks or whatever and I'll be more than happy to train you.


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## rob1980 (Nov 17, 2008)

Hi, I've been browsing around the internet seeing what other people think of the P90X program, and it's so interesting what the responses are. It seems as if many "super fit" people in general are skeptic about any program purchased off the TV being worth it. On the other hand, I've visited some forums where people were extra negative around 2007 and then the discussion steadily became very positive up til the present. Is this because the ultra fit already have the motivation to do it all themselves? 

Anyway, I just completed P90X last week, and I'm really happy with the results. I was in pretty good shape beforehand, but it really got me to a whole new level of fitness without having to break my brain over what I should be doing. I published my befores and afters and impressions here: P90X Review. I went from 12.6% body fat to 6.3%, and I got more definition.

I'm trying to figure out what to do next, though. Any thoughts on where I can start? My goal is to try new things, keep the intensity up, and see further all-around improvements in my body. I could use a little more size, but not much. I like lean muscle definition and staying generally flexible and athletic.


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## Merkaba (Nov 17, 2008)

rob1980 said:


> Hi, I've been browsing around the internet seeing what other people think of the P90X program, and it's so interesting what the responses are. It seems as if many "super fit" people in general are skeptic about any program purchased off the TV being worth it. On the other hand, I've visited some forums where people were extra negative around 2007 and then the discussion steadily became very positive up til the present. Is this because the ultra fit already have the motivation to do it all themselves?
> 
> Anyway, I just completed P90X last week, and I'm really happy with the results. I was in pretty good shape beforehand, but it really got me to a whole new level of fitness without having to break my brain over what I should be doing. I published my befores and afters and impressions here: P90X Review. I went from 12.6% body fat to 6.3%, and I got more definition.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out what to do next, though. Any thoughts on where I can start? My goal is to try new things, keep the intensity up, and see further all-around improvements in my body. I could use a little more size, but not much. I like lean muscle definition and staying generally flexible and athletic.



Great so you learned what many learn for free hear.  Shock the muscle, don't overtrain, and eat properly.

Did you look like a sad loser with slumped shoulders and a harry chest in your before pics, then shaved and actually stood up straight and smiled in the after pic?  

Plus youre spamming.  Moron.


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## rob1980 (Nov 17, 2008)

The question was about P90X and I was giving a legitimate answer. I'm being respectful in letting people know that it's a program that works. The fact is, there are a lot of people out there that need motivation and instruction in order to reach their fitness goals. It doesn't just happen with snapping your fingers, and P90X is one way of getting there.

Obviously, you don't require the motivation or the knowledge, so maybe you don't need something like P90X. But maybe you should stop and think about what it takes some of us mere mortals to get in shape.

And thanks for not answering my question, which is why I came visiting a workout forum in the first place.


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## Merkaba (Nov 17, 2008)

rob1980 said:


> The question was about P90X and I was giving a legitimate answer. I'm being respectful in letting people know that it's a program that works. The fact is, there are a lot of people out there that need motivation and instruction in order to reach their fitness goals. It doesn't just happen with snapping your fingers, and P90X is one way of getting there.
> 
> Obviously, you don't require the motivation or the knowledge, so maybe you don't need something like P90X. But maybe you should stop and think about what it takes some of us mere mortals to get in shape.
> 
> And thanks for not answering my question, which is why I came visiting a workout forum in the first place.



Well big freakin woop!  You came to a forum.  And most programs that require you getting off the couch and breaking a sweat and eating decent work.
You have two posts!  It's not rocket science!

"Mere mortals" also like to be dumbed into buying products too.  Your first post was about p90x with a link to a supposed review that was basically a sales page.  Some are stupid.  Many are not.  There's plenty of programs, hey most of them work if you follow the advice to the T.  We've had plenty of legitimate reviews and they take place on site, not on a link to some jazzed up sales page that takes you to another site with price information.  
Really nice page too, did you set that up by yourself rob?  

No I don't require the motivation or the knowledge.  Those that do we tell them: Count your calories, workout.

You lose weight by creating a deficit.  Sure you can do that with p90 or by sitting at home.  You want to gain some mass you say?  You have to create a surplus and workout accordingly.  But hey don't ask us, I've got a nice program I can sell you on how to gain mass.  Click here

You know why its an issue? Because those that may want to read about something new or a routine,like myself, spend their time reading something only to realize they were being sold, which GREATLY affects the legitimacy of the product review.  DUH.  Thus wasting our time.
Your internet marketing skills need work.  Don't get all bent out of shape if you don't know what you're doing.  At least join the forum, build some rapport and contribute before dropping a load of dung that supposed to be flung as helpful.


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## rob1980 (Nov 17, 2008)

We could go on about this all day, so I'll make this my last post - feel free to take the last word. And yes, I am new to this forum. And I'll take you up on continuing to post and learn from the other people here. The fact is, I don't know everything about exercise, and I'm picking up things searching around on the internet.

Go ahead and check my blog, by the way... I don't have a single advertisement and though I am excited, I'm not pushing anyone to buy P90x. My blog is my personal journey in getting fit, and it so happens to be starting with p90x, a program I purchased a few months ago, and which has shown me much success.

My question was not asking for a magic bullet to solve my fitness problems. From the stage I'm at, I'm looking for a workout routine that's more challenging. Obviously I came to the wrong place to find suggestions, and we somehow ended up on this tangent about spamming. Thanks, anyways.


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## Merkaba (Nov 17, 2008)

Ok we'll see


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## DiGiTaL (Nov 17, 2008)

> Great so you learned what many learn for free hear.  Shock the muscle, don't overtrain, and eat properly.
> 
> Did you look like a sad loser with slumped shoulders and a harry chest in your before pics, then shaved and actually stood up straight and smiled in the after pic?
> 
> Plus youre spamming.  Moron.


I love you. 


Lol. When you see these infomercials on TV you go "wow, that looks good", "oh they are even doing!" "oh look it even hits the abs", "my oh my they are smart people"...but when you study fitness, have some questions of your own...you begin to realize this P90x shit is just another bullshit. I mean I saw the TurboJam commercials on tv so much that I almost fell in their web..then I read up on it. Problem solved.


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## rob1980 (Nov 17, 2008)

I can't believe I'm throwing myselves to the wolves again... but just out of curiosity - what are your views on things like crossfit?


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## Merkaba (Nov 17, 2008)

DiGiTaL said:


> I love you.
> 
> 
> Lol. When you see these infomercials on TV you go "wow, that looks good", "oh they are even doing!" "oh look it even hits the abs", "my oh my they are smart people"...but when you study fitness, have some questions of your own...you begin to realize this P90x shit is just another bullshit. I mean I saw the TurboJam commercials on tv so much that I almost fell in their web..then I read up on it. Problem solved.


I know.  The thing is that people in general can't do the proper research like many of us "gym heads"....so they get taken advantage of.  I mean, its a business idea.  Packaging looks good, you make some commercials and be sure you say the ass-lounge "system" helps you lose inches because that system is not just the ass lounge, but also the book that says watch what you eat and get some cardio in.  What, so I can't cut inches by rocking in a goddam ab hammock for 5 minutes a day?  

Fuck nuts....to have the audacity to make a piece of equipment with the word "lounge" in it.  To appeal to the laziness of people.  The idea of working out while still sitting on your lazy ass.  Genius!  Brilliant!



rob1980 said:


> I can't believe I'm throwing myselves to the wolves again... but just out of curiosity - what are your views on things like crossfit?


I think its some generally overhyped sensationalized shit.  Plenty of that stuff I'd never tell anyone to do.  However it will kick your ass if you just don't care about the risk for injury and are just so motherfucking bad that you like trying to kill yourself so you can brag to your friends that you do crossfit.  Do it.  You'll get in shape, at the most if youre lucky.   I'd never tell my client to do air squats.  Sorry. At least not the speed I see them always being done.  But that's just me. I wouldn't suggest a few of things that others do, but thats life and opinion.  I'm not a dam fan of snatching and jerking anything overhead.  Just too dam risky to me, and for what?   

 Controlling intensity is the key to a good workout.  One shouldn't need a bought system for that.  But hey if you just wanna pay money to have someone give you a way of increasing intensity then that's your or whoever's prerogative.


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## rob1980 (Nov 18, 2008)

Well, at least we can agree on something. I still don't believe all commercialized workouts are junk, but I was checking out some of the crossfit videos and they do look dangerous. Just the idea of using the same workouts as olympic level gymnasts and power lifters seems overboard and risky for most people.

... And I do think you're right about many programs bought off infomercials. I'll still stand up for P90x (not to start us arguing about it again), but gimmicky products do generally market towards couch potatoes who probably don't exercise much and could get far greater benefits going to the gym a few times a week...


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## Merkaba (Nov 20, 2008)

.......SYSTEM






YouTube Video


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## TBAR (Jan 21, 2009)

lol i felt my back cramp up just watching that shit.  No freaking way.

Some guys here at work are talking about doing the P90X and I did a search to see what it's all about.  I think I'll stick with traditional weights and cardio.


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## jonbauman54 (Mar 18, 2009)

I started P90X a few weeks ago, and so far, it ain't bad. I train for martial arts and distance running, so the cardio/ lean muscle approach of P90X is what I'm into. It does have a good all around body workout and seems like it works pretty good. I ain't noticed much improvement from where I was but we'll see. My only complaints is that the cardio is a little weak and the Kenpo had some form flaws. Basically what I'm saying is that if you want to stack on muscle, it's not for you. If you're just lookin for overall fitness, especially cardio and flexibilty, it will give you that. Personally, I have to through in some cardio on the side to get what I need, depends on your fitness level.


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## PainandGain (Mar 18, 2009)

I have seen 2 friends buy and use this.

Bottom line:
It's for endurance and maybe a little functional strength.
But it won't build large muscles like heavy compound free-weight lifts.


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## soxmuscle (Mar 18, 2009)

p90x sucks


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## NeilPearson (Mar 18, 2009)

If anyone is interested in this, whatever you do, don't google p90x torrent.... it is available for free download, but that would be stealing

I recommend using uTorrent for the torrent client... just only download legal things


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## jonbauman54 (Mar 19, 2009)

I actually got on to see if it is ok to double the workouts or if that would diminish results. I saw that a lot of people had bad things to say, like the guy up there that said it sucks, and figured I'd just offer some input, you get what you pay for. Gym memberships are expensive, that's why I run alot, it's free. P90X is not as good as a gym and a CSCS, whether your aim is endureance or mass, but it cost alot less, and is more convenient. I see it as people that used to sit on the couch are now exercising in front of it, that's a step in the right direction.


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## kyoun1e (Mar 19, 2009)

I've had two different people come up to me this week and mention this product. Wierd. And they were absolutely pumped about it. I think the marketing machine is really rolling.

My cousin was one of them. And he's been lifting heavy for years. The whole promise of getting "ripped" is huge.

Whether we like it or not, I think there is a market for this thing and users seem satisfied.

KY


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## Vixx (Apr 11, 2009)

Funny that people who HAVEN'T seen the video decry how stupid they are and how stupid the people who buy it are. Ironic. My thoughts...

* Of COURSE P90X isn't for everyone, but what workout routine is? Everyone is different and needs to figure out what works for them.
* I've done P90X for almost a year now and in the first series I did I went from 245 to 210 and dropped serious body fat and look and feel MUCH better.
* Of course I could scour and scrub every forum on the internet, this one included, to read and find "new" workout routines to supplement my workouts, but my time is worth more than that. If my free time is worth $60/hour (which is pretty low IMHO) then I only need to figure that if I spend more than 2 hours looking for new routines, the the $120 for P90X is a safe buy. I get easy to follow routine with a video to watch while I do it.
* I can do 95% of the entire series on the road with high-tension bands.
* The 'actors' are far from professional athletes. The ones on the commercial sure they are professional dancers and trainers, but in one set of videos there's a 50 some year old lady.
* I find it suspect that trainers are opposed to these kinds of 'exercise at home' products, for it's obvious it risks cutting in to your business revenue model. Of course, someone should also know better than to go to a forum with professional/aspiring professional hard-core body builders and ask that kind of question. It's like going to a BMW M5 forum and asking them what they think about the Hyundai Sonata right?
* This series WILL build mass if you use enough resistance and push yourself. To say it can't build mass without seeing or doing the routines seems pretty ill-informed. Just like ANY workout routine. If I do super-sets with 10lbs, I won't gain mass either. 

Bottom line is, for what the product is and what it costs, it works. If you do the workout like they say, and don't want to spend a couple hours looking for printouts of routines and/or videos, or you prefer to workout at home on your own schedule and don't want to have to hire and work around a trainer's schedule or the hours of a workout facility, IMHO it's a great product. I've been doing this with my wife for years and we both benefited, and 4-5 other couple's we know saw our results and did it, and are amazed and love it, and they told other couples who now have bought it and it works. And most of our friends and friends of friends who now have bought it never saw the infomercial. 

But you have to take it for what it is. It's a thorough, broad-spectrum workout and diet program that is fairly strict. And to Merkaba who said "So give me the 120 bucks or whatever and I'll be more than happy to train you", there's not a chance in hell you would train ANYONE for 3 months with a diet and exercise program for 3 months for $120...if you do, I don't see how you would keep that business going. 

If you want to poo-poo home-workout products simply because they don't involve personal trainers or high dollar equipment or customized diet and workout plans and don't use the latest and greatest technologies and 'hip new theories', that's fine, just be open about your bias before saying they won't work. For those that can toss $120 to something that is based on sound, tried and true, been around forever workouts and routines, and HAVE the self-discipline to follow it without someone barking at you OR you are like me and are on the road 2 weeks a month and want something you can do on your own, in your hotel room with little to no equipment, this is a perfect product.

And this is my first and likely last post, just had to say something as I stumbed across this looking for something else.


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## Merkaba (Apr 11, 2009)

Vixx said:


> Funny that people who HAVEN'T seen the video decry how stupid they are and how stupid the people who buy it are. Ironic. My thoughts...
> 
> * Of COURSE P90X isn't for everyone, but what workout routine is? Everyone is different and needs to figure out what works for them.
> * I've done P90X for almost a year now and in the first series I did I went from 245 to 210 and dropped serious body fat and look and feel MUCH better.
> ...



I'm glad you got that out.  

The point is that you lost weight because youre on the road half of your life and you needed to get off your damn ass..and you created a negative calorie balance.  You didnt need to exercise to do that though, as the tv and mags would have you believe.  You felt better because you got off of your ass.  Anything done with enough intensity and nutrition will build mass. Ok you see some of us know the simple ways to explain concepts that are ambiguous to those who don't know the biological paths that lead them to their supposed goals. 

And youre damn right I wouldnt train for that amount, have you ever heard of "making a point" ???  The point is that you can find a myriad of ways to waste money, and i can put that dvd in and show and anatomically prove quite a few reasons why you should be doing something else. And yea some people have 120 to "toss" at it and many have hundreds more. Would you give me 5 grand a month to train you?  To some of us you might as well be doing the same thing.  I only train select clients here and there part time because too many are like you and think they know a bunch of shit when they don't.  

I personally never said it wouldnt work. Just about Anything works if you do it enough.  Starving yourself works as well.  AAS works as well.  Its just that some things work more efficiently and are safer than others.  

As far as p90 goes, more power to em.  I'd sale it if I could.  However,
I'm not a fan of any conventional video system that comes on after late night t.v.  Stuck cleverly in between sham-wow commercials and the latest supposed real estate guru.  I mean go figure.

Now go do some fast air squats and get a p90 shake or bar or something.


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## Vixx (Apr 12, 2009)

Heh, got an email with replies...interesting. Merkaba:

_"The point is that you lost weight because youre on the road half of your life and you needed to get off your damn ass..and you created a negative calorie balance. You didnt need to exercise to do that though, as the tv and mags would have you believe. You felt better because you got off of your ass. Anything done with enough intensity and nutrition will build mass. Ok you see some of us know the simple ways to explain concepts that are ambiguous to those who don't know the biological paths that lead them to their supposed goals."_

Yes, and *for me* I like the Videos because they are guided, and consistent when I am on the road. I don't go to one gym and get a gal who has X way of doing things in California, and then get to DC and get a different guy with Y way of doing things. I did that for years, and like using P90X much better. Your attempt to seem intelligent with comments like "you see some of us know the simple ways to explain concepts" belies the fact that you responded with derision and information that wasn't asked for from the original poster. 

_"And youre damn right I wouldnt train for that amount, have you ever heard of "making a point" ??? The point is that you can find a myriad of ways to waste money, and i can put that dvd in and show and anatomically prove quite a few reasons why you should be doing something else. And yea some people have 120 to "toss" at it and many have hundreds more. Would you give me 5 grand a month to train you? To some of us you might as well be doing the same thing. I only train select clients here and there part time because too many are like you and think they know a bunch of shit when they don't."_

No, you missed MY point. However, I won't bother attempting again. However, to say giving you $5k a month (a professional or semi-professional body buidler) to train me versus me (a regular guy) paying $120 and getting just what I need, is nowhere NEAR the same thing. Your 'select clientele' and simple solutions opinion, versus people who think they know a bunch of shit when they don't, speaks volumes of your perceived self-importance and supposed authority over something far more complex than you would let anyone believe, lest it negate your supposed expert opinion. Exercise is FAR more complex than burning more calories than you take in, it's also a matter of WHAT type of calories you take in, HOW and WHEN you take them in, mental discipline and routine, attitudes, etc. 

I do recognize though that this isn't a general fitness web forum, at least not what I can tell from the sig lines and pictures. So of COURSE this isn't the solution to someone wanting to get serious about mass and competitions. But that wasn't the question of the original poster. I only answered to give my 2 cents and respond to some of the other negative comments made from people who haven't even seen it (yourself included). It may be on in the traditional infomercial time slots, but so are many poker competitions. What's your point? It doesn't negate it's benefit, quality, or efficacy. 

I see you're a moderator, I won't be surprised if this gets banned. And good luck in all your future endeavors. 

*I do find it deliciously ironic though that upon registration for membership to this forum, the first PM i get from the Admin is an advertisement for www-burnthefat-com, a new, revolutionary workout and excercise system:
*
"Burn The Fat, Feed The Muscle": A Complete
Fat Burning System Based on The Secret Techniques of
The World's Best Bodybuilders and Fitness Models

HAHAH so deliciously ironic!


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## DanK (Apr 14, 2009)

Actually... I have started this program, I've had a hard time lately sticking to a steady workout routine, and my eating has been bad as well... I don't plan to follow the diet plan that closely, I'm not a fan of measuring and counting calories etc... but I am a fan of healthy foods... I just tend to eat too much and when I'm not exercising I tend to get naughty with my diet (a coke doesn't seem like such a big deal... unless I'm doing a grueling workout and during it I'm thinking oh god, how am I going to finish this... I'll never drink coke/unhealthy food again!).

What I will say, with limitted experience with the program is the nutrition plan is basically 60% protein, 20% carbs, 20% fat (this is the fat burner plan), they have a "more balanced" plan that is less protein and more carbs and then an athletic endurance plan that is even more carbs and less protein, the fat is always 20%, the athletic endurance plan was 20% protein and 60% carbs. It's more about principles/portions than specific meal plans, there are recipes, I kind of glossed over that stuff, I might go back looking for ideas at some point but generally... from my time here and various other sites I've got a pretty good idea of what is healthy and what is not...

The exercise video's themselves are pretty serious in my opinion, they seem to focus on high reps in a short time period, the chest/back routine is a LOT of pushups, pullups, and a few other push/pull exercises, mostly body weight, but there are some provisions to make things harder/easier depending on your abilities. The exercises require a minimal amount of equipment, don't need a lot of space either. If anyone remembers the EDT workouts... the chest/back workout very much reminded me of that, this was just compound body weight movements (mostly) with a lot of variations of the same movements, instead of a high number of sets of two movements.

I like the idea that the routines do provide quite a bit of variety, you are doing something different every day of the week.

The ab ripper x thing... it's 15 minutes, and I'd say it's the kind of ab workout I'd expect a pro boxer to do... only, I'd expect a pro boxer to do it for much longer. This is done aproximately every other day, after what may be a long workout, the chest/back workout is something like 52 minutes long, tack on another 15 minutes... ouch... but I'll follow the program for now. The yoga workout is an hour and a half, though I don't think the workout schedule has you doing the ab ripper jive after yoga (I didn't look that far ahead, the workout schedule changes every 3 or 4 weeks). It's not a heavy lifting routine, but you don't have to stick with light weights by any means, you use a weight that's appropriate for you, if you can only do the work with the pink dumbells, use those... if you have a set of 45's you'd prefer... use those, though I don't expect to see a whole lot of use of weights (again, I've only just begun).

I borrowed my set of DVD's... from a friend... on the internet... anonymously... and I'd say that for the typical person in this forum, the purchase price is not worth it, but for someone who lacks any equipment, it's probably worth while. As I understand it, it comes with some bands and other things that would be useful for someone lacking weights and other tools. I think the program itself is no joke and likely to be effective for anyone who is motivated enough to do it. I also expect despite any marketting push/before and after results that get posted on the net... most of the people who try the program will follow the pattern of new years resolutioners... It's not a body building program, it's a fitness program, I think if followed strictly (the diet and exercise) a person can't help but get ripped, muscle growth... probably only for the untrained.

Just thought I'd give my opinion since everyone else who had a favorable response was a newb poster, and most of the vets here haven't actually seen any of the materials, and really, for most of the vets, this kind of program is not something they'd personally have any interest in (it's fitness, not body building, just consider the many arguements on if cardio is worth while that happen now and then).


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## Vixx (Apr 14, 2009)

DanK, 

The diet sucks, but I love to eat. The hardest part for me was cutting the diet, which is one reason I like P90X, is it burns a ton o'calories for me, which lets me eat more like I want to, just not in the quantities I used to.

There's no Ab Ripper after Yoga, Kenpo, Core, or Stretch. Only do Ab Ripper on a "weight day" as it were. Some things that I've done that REALLY increased the intensity of the workout without adding much time:


Plyo with 2-4lb ankle weights, securely velcro'd heh
Do Kenpo and Core Synergistics with 2-3lb arm weights and 2-4lb leg weights
Do 30 reps on Ab Ripper in the same time they do 25 (+5 to each routine)

They give you ways in each video, esp in the Phase 2 videos to add difficulty. Do those and you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Yoga X is actually the hardest for me since it's so damned long and I just can't do some of the poses/postures they do. But I can do the entire thing now. I also do early morning workouts (either 45min of Yoga or X Stretch, love love love X Stretch) in addition to my evening standard P90X routines, which has REALLY ramped up the progress I have seen in the last few months on my second round.

You're right, it's not a weight lifting/mass building kind of workout, which is why it's likely not very popular here. But it's effective for what it claims to do. I've added inches to arms, chest and back, legs, etc, but not in the 'body builder' classic type of fashion, just slowly eroding my BF% and BMI. But it works, and works well, and I don't need alot of gear or space to do it. 

Good luck! Also, if you google for 'Excel Workout Tools P90X', it's a series of spread sheets that you enter your weights and reps in to and it automatically graphs it all out. It's only $10 and you get a TON of other stuff with it (shake and bar recipes, some fitness guides, etc). An INSANE amount of detail and info to record, would be easy to modify into a custom workout sheet. I won't post the link, lest I seem like a shill, but the workout sheets for me are great, as I usually want or need to record more info than on the P90X worksheets.


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## Built (Apr 14, 2009)

Vixx, what, specifically, are your long term goals?

Out of curiosity, how old are you, and what condition were you in when you started?


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## P-funk (Apr 14, 2009)

"any fool can make another fool tired."


proper training is more than that.

patrick


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## Hench (Apr 14, 2009)

Vixx said:


> Heh, got an email with replies...interesting. Merkaba:
> 
> _"The point is that you lost weight because youre on the road half of your life and you needed to get off your damn ass..and you created a negative calorie balance. You didnt need to exercise to do that though, as the tv and mags would have you believe. You felt better because you got off of your ass. Anything done with enough intensity and nutrition will build mass. Ok you see some of us know the simple ways to explain concepts that are ambiguous to those who don't know the biological paths that lead them to their supposed goals."_
> 
> ...



You are a very ignorant person. Merk is an educated natural weight lifter who has put in the time to look the way he does and deserves more respect than that, but he doesnt need me to fight his battles for him. 

Do some reading around the boards, read the stickies and both P-funks and Builts blog, youll soon see the flaws of p90.

Edit: I swear I just read the word ''Ab ripper'' in one of these posts. Think I might give this one a try...


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## Built (Apr 14, 2009)

The problem with these types of workouts, where you train your ass off - literally - and lose weight is that because you don't really learn how to eat, you gain it back. 

I know, because over a twenty year period I overtrained and incorrectly dieted my way from 140 lbs to 170 lbs. 

It sucked.

It was a LOT of work, and it totally sucked. 

My take on this workout is that it's great short-term conditioning if you're fairly close to your target weight to begin with. In other words, if I did it NOW I'd be fine. I'd lose some muscle, but I'd be fine. 

Thing is, that's not who this type of workout plan attracts. It's like running programmes - people take them on to lose weight (hand goes up), when the truth of the matter is that you'd be better off losing the weight, THEN taking up running. Running, P90X, any kind of rigorous activity is best done by those who are not overweight. You need to eat to recover well, and the pounding of all that extra weight does NOT do a body good. Compound that with eating at a deficit (if you're losing weight, no matter HOW you're eating, you're eating at a deficit), you've got a recipe for overtraining injuries and burnout. 

Doubt me? I don't blame you. But I'll ask you this: how many people do you know who have lost 30+ pounds and kept it off for more than a year?

Because you're reading a post written by someone who lost more than 30 lbs since 2001 and kept it off. 

And I sure as shit didn't exercise it off. Not this time. 

Believe me, I understand. Being fat sucks - the health problems that fall out of it are far-reaching and can be devastating. You are to be commended for trying to get a handle on it. 

We're here when you need your next approach. The one that's forever. 

Good luck with your goals.


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## Vixx (Apr 14, 2009)

Moon, my "ignorace" (as you call it) notwithstanding, I respond in kind to the tone put on me. A person can criticize anything he or she wants so long as it's rooted in logic and knowledge. Merkaba hasn't even seen the videos and yet he's absolutely sure they're a waste. I never once questioned his work ethic or his accomplishments, I am only criticizing his tone and "ignorance" related to the program since he himself said he's never seen it, he just disregards it off hand because he saw it on an infomercial. The "irony" I pointed out is that in the membership response to this very forum, a forum Merkaba is a moderator of, I was pitched another "infomercial program" offered by this magazine/forum. Notice *I* didn't criticize it because *I've never seen it*, but I can certainly point out the pot calling the kettle black.

And I looked at his pictures. Very impressive. But if he or others here want to be treated with respect, as you put it, they should afford others the same courtesy, regardless if they are a n00b or not to this forum. My lack of posting numbers here has nothing to do with my knowledge of fitness or excercise.

Note I am being respectful to you because you were respectful to me. OTOH, comments like P-Funk's are just asinine. I can find quotes from Tennyson to Chris Rock insulting someone, that doesn't mean they deserve respect for being rude or obnoxious. I'm old enough and comfortable enough to stand on my own without giving people respect who haven't earned it and don't afford it to others.

Built, I'm 35, 6'2" and am currently around 210lbs and have been there for about a month now. In high-school played football and soccer. In my 20's I was a competitive mountain biker (semi-pro) and windsurfer and weighed around 195. I have two degrees (physics and biology) and understand nutrition, but growing up in Oklahoma and having lots of bad food to choose from, made it easy to eat damn near anything I wanted. I got full pretty easy though and had 5-6 small, high protein meals a day. I also did the usual recommended supplemental additions to the diets, didn't drink beer (much) and never smoked. In my early 30's, a combination of bad bike wreck with a reconstructed shoulder and a subsequent genetic gastro-intestinal problem resulted in a few years of downtime. Once rehabbed, had gained 30 lbs and lost most of my physical stamina. 

Once I hit 245 and needed bigger than 36" pants (heh) I got serious. However my job had me on the road ALOT. I spent around $100-150 a month either buying national memberships or paying weekly dues and was a PITA to find a club near the hotel, if there was one at all, workout, etc. Finally a friend of mine, a nurse at one of the local hospitals, told me about P90X, as they used the X Stretch and Cardio X for some of their returning vets from Iraq for rehab (actually started because one of the "models" in the video series is a lower leg amputee and does the program, so it spread through the VA rehab facilities in the area). So I bought it thinking "Even if I use some of them on the road in place of my Cardio in a club somewhere, it's not a total waste. And worst case I Ebay it and only loose $20. 

It's almost a year now, and the first 3 months I dropped from 245 to 210. over the last 7-8 months I've fluctuated between 205 and 215, but am steady now, as I now do my own modified program that's a mix between the original program and the 'Lean' program. My diet is mostly fruits and vegetables with lean meats like turkey and chicken (turkey chili is a core staple heh), but one meal every couple of days is whatever I want (which is usually pizza, burger, etc, not like a box of Malomars or Ding Dongs). It's a good compromise *for me* and seems to have stabilized my weight

My long-term goals are now increasing my flexibility while slowly building strength. I'm adding approx 3-5 lbs to most of my workouts every 3-4 weeks now and am to the point now that I need to buy a new rack and dumbells for the house (55-70lbs) for pants and rows mostly. I don't want to be ripped or big like most of you here, but I'd like to think I'm defined OK enough to go shirtless and not feel bad. So *for me* I've made out of it what I need, configured the 'diet' to work for me. The program isn't a bad program, and there's a broad volume of knowledge in the books that say exactly what you said above. But if you just follow it blindly, hit your target, and then stop, then yea that's bad. 

My *ONLY* point is, in this WHOLE rant, is that the P90X program and videos aren't bad in and of themselves, anymore than ANY program that's not used properly or followed properly is 'bad'. One of my pet peeves though are people who have never seen a thing, and take it upon themselves to deride ANYONE who argues in favor of that thing, when they have no direct knowledge of it, other than they don't like it or don't think it's good (which is just a totally flawed philosophy). Then "I'M being disrespectful" for not just cowing over in the aura of their greatness. 

/rant off

edit: I can't spell...hands are tired after Plyo


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## Built (Apr 14, 2009)

Vixx, I'm glad you found something that's working for you. 

You are young (really, you are), male, and a former athlete. It is not at all surprising to me that you are able to dedicate yourself to a plan of action that you can undertake at home and on the road, and your dedication to improving your lifestyle is laudable. 

I have noted my objection to a workout plan that relies upon sustaining high levels of activity, but to be fair, as a female, this is because this type of training tends to overstimulate my appetite. (This is supported by research out of the U of Ottawa from 2004, should you care to google it). In males, this is less of a concern - and of course males have more testosterone to protect lean mass. Males are also able to create a higher caloric deficit through training, and of course, six tiny meals for a woman is downright miserable - we often diet better by ditching breakfast and concentrating what little food we eat into three or four larger meals later in the day. 

I remain concerned about plyometric training for anyone who is overweight, but that's my age and my injuries showing. I had to find a way to train and to eat that involved less work - my old body cannot take this much sustained activity. 

As a modality, I can see that you find this helpful. And to be fair, I am unfamiliar with the timeline of this setup. If you don't mind, would you be able to describe how the training is periodized through the year?


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## DanK (Apr 15, 2009)

P-Funk: You haven't personally seen the program materials, you can dislike it all you want, but your opinion is hardly an educated one unless that has changed.

Built: To be fair, there is some focus on diet in the videos, though the bulk of it seems to be in the manuals, I skimmed it but what I did read was down to earth... the documentation is pretty reasonable in covering a lot of what if's such as if you do the program but not the diet, etc, as far as the results you are likely to achieve, I don't recall seeing anything about doing the diet and blowing off the program, since the core of the program is fitness, which diet alone won't give you, but someone *could* do the diet alone and lose weight I'm sure, it's pretty much a basic diet, portion control along with getting a decent breakdown of macronutrients. As for overweight people doing these videos... it depends on how overweight I guess and their level of fitness, if you give it what you got, how hard the workout is to follow depends on your own ability/dedication, the more in shape you are, the more intense the workout should become on it's own (by simply being able to do more reps in a shorter time period/less time laying on the ground panting trying to catch your breath etc). The program does discourage people from using this program if they aren't already in decent shape, of course they do sell other products that are less "EXTREME" that will get you into the kind of fitness shape you need to be to complete this program... they probably don't tell you this until after you have the product though, but hey, that's marketting for ya. P90X is not an entry level program.

Vixx: I'm strongly against the use of ankle weights, particularly with something like plyometrics, from what I've read it adds a lot of risk of injury, for only a little benefit, I believe there are torso weights that a person could use and I don't think they'd have the same risks of injury since the weight is more centered to your core. Also... the plyometrics routine is too much for me right now, I'd say I only did about 70% of the workout (I went to the end, just stopped many of the exercises before the video did... as well as some exercises were totally new to me and so I spent a part of the time getting the motions down). Maybe next week or the week after I'll give myself a nice gold star for making it through the whole workout in style.

As for myself... I started exercising about 8 years ago, I started at 287 with a long term goal of 220, I didn't want to diet and focused on working out to lose weight, despite not dieting I did manage to lose a bit of weight, but it was a SLOW process, I think I got as low as 245 over a 2 or 3 year period, switched jobs and started to gain it back, hit 265 and got serious on my diet, and got down to 203 about 2 or 3 years ago, I've crept back up to 225 a few times since then and every so often I get back into a routine, but as I said before haven't been very consistant, but I can still claim a solid 60 lbs of weight loss, kept off for well over a year, that hardly qualifies me as an expert, but let's just say I've got some experience.

For periodization, here is the basic p90x workout calendar, without the accompanying videos it's probably hard to get a handle on what is involved though. http://home.hiwaay.net/~galaxy/P90X/p90x_calendar.pdf
3 weeks of grueling workouts, and 1 week of what is presumably going to make you sweat a little, but probably not grueling by any means (I don't know, I haven't done a rest week yet). Like I said before, it's got that ab ripper jive basically every other day, I know many people are against hitting abs so often, and I tend to agree, there aren't any weighted exercises in the ab workout though.


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## OuiSwim (Apr 15, 2009)

I have to agree, for me p90x worked because I'm not good at designing my own intense workout or diet. It's easier to act like a sheep and just follow what they do.  baaaah.


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## Built (Apr 15, 2009)

DanK, you said yourself that until you got the diet down, you didn't move very fast into weight loss - and you have a tendency to backslide. 

I laud your sustained 60-lb loss. That is a HUGE accomplishment and you have almost certainly extended your life by doing this. 

Good catch on the ankle-weights; you're absolutely correct, they're a terrible way to train - all that torque on your joints, and in a most unnatural application - you're just ASKING for injury. 

3 weeks of gruelling, one week backoff. Got it. 

I am SO WAYYYY TOO LAZY to train that way LOL! Power to you if you can keep this going for as long as I've kept my programme going - which, so far, is almost eight years - and my weight only creeps up when I want it to. I always weigh exactly what I want, and I can't even begin to tell you what a profound comfort that is to me. 

Cheers.


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## Vixx (Apr 15, 2009)

On the plyo, I have to admit I don't jump like they do. I come 1-2 inches off the floor to keep knee impact to a minimum. I also use some very soft and cushiony shoes. Think less jumper, lower extensions, Pam-the-Blam type of workout (if you've seen it, you'll know what that corny stuff is about)

I honestly noticed the wrist and ankle weights on Kenpo than in Plyo, which I actually started to add more resistance to the punches and kicks. But I do notice a 5-10bpm increase in my average heart rates on both workouts with the weights. But you're right, a weight vest would be a much better option, will check that out next time I get to the store. 

Built, you're right, I will likely not be doing Plyo much longer, as it is now I do it once every other week in my modified workout. But I can say when I started a year ago, I could jump and just touch the rim, now I can easily grab it with my hand and hang, but my vertical leap has improved only marginally since the first round of P90X, so in that regard I don't think it's doing me much good anymore, I just do it because it's what's on my list.

If I ever found a video series (like OuiSwim said) that takes most of the mental work out for me, I'd do it. I've branched into more yoga series types of Videos as I find that is as good of a workout as some of my more strenuous exercises in P90X. 

Anyhoo, at some point, I may switch and go to more cardio with less weights, or I may continue with what I'm doing since I have consistently been putting on a steady amount of bulk in my muscles over the last 3 months as I've been increasing weights. But I won't likely ever get, or go, to the point where I start having to really think about and analyze my programs to maximize efficiency and gains on specific muscle groups.

I am also buying the Tony Horton One-on-One series at the end of my year. Those look to be more advanced and specific to certain areas than the more general and broad P90X. Since I've been coming here regularly, I may hang out and let people know how they are once I start.


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## Built (Apr 15, 2009)

Hang on. How can you be adding bulk - you're losing weight. 

You can get stronger without putting on muscle. Be very careful with this distinction. 

I would not recommend doing MORE cardio. The training you are doing is "iron cardio" - if anything, I'd dial it back in favour of one or two "heavy" lifting workouts a week. 

Used in conjunction with low-rep training, I can see the utility of the type of training you're doing. I do complexes for example, as part of my own training.


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## Vixx (Apr 16, 2009)

Bulk likely isn't the right word, better definition, etc...whatever that would be. 

Will definitely think about doing more heavy lifting days in place of cardio. I just want to get back into biking and right now, I'm only good for 30-40 miles on the road at 18mp avg or 10-15 miles on the mountain bike at 130-140bpm hr. 

This is usually the point where I get involved in something and it gets more and more complex heh. Thanks for the advice Built!


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## Built (Apr 16, 2009)

You are most welcome.  

My husband is a mountain biker and he finds the heavy lifting really complements the endurance work he does on the bike. He backs off of the lifting during the season (we're in Vancouver - God's country among mountain bikers), just a few low-rep sessions while he's riding 4-5 days a week, and a bit more volume in the off-season. 

He says he really notices the extra upper body strength the lifting has afforded him, and the heavy squats and deads keep his legs strong for the hills.


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## jmorrison (Apr 16, 2009)

Vixx said:


> My *ONLY* point is, in this WHOLE rant, is that the P90X program and videos aren't bad in and of themselves, anymore than ANY program that's not used properly or followed properly is 'bad'. One of my pet peeves though are people who have never seen a thing, and take it upon themselves to deride ANYONE who argues in favor of that thing, when they have no direct knowledge of it, other than they don't like it or don't think it's good (which is just a totally flawed philosophy). Then "I'M being disrespectful" for not just cowing over in the aura of their greatness.
> 
> /rant off



His whole point is the same as yours.  And his pet peeve is people marketing a product that the average Joe does not need.  

He isn't saying P90x is junk.  He is saying that P90x is basically giving information for high dollar amounts, that you can get easily for free from any number of sources.

Take a deep breath.  Calm down.  Read his posts.  Then stop bashing your face into the keyboard and try to understand what he is saying.


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## Merkaba (Apr 17, 2009)

jmorrison said:


> His whole point is the same as yours.  And his pet peeve is people marketing a product that the average Joe does not need.
> 
> He isn't saying P90x is junk.  He is saying that P90x is basically giving information for high dollar amounts, that you can get easily for free from any number of sources.
> 
> Take a deep breath.  Calm down.  Read his posts.  Then stop bashing your face into the keyboard and try to understand what he is saying.



Thank you.  

And i have seen the vids. Not all of them, but enough to know.  hell if you want to use p90 or tae bo or whatever then do it.  And as I say, what is the key word they pretty much legally have to use?  "system" ....which is not the dvd but also you watching your diet.  Which is the biggest key.  If you think you can "ab lounge" 10 inches off your waiste then go ahead, but its the ab lounge system that gets it done. And that is not eating to gain fat.  Period.  As I stated before, buy all the dvds you want and workout to what you want to I could care less.  My point is that its not necessary.  I'll make a video of me doing jump rope and jumping jacks and sell it to you if you like!  As long as you watch your intake my Jumping-Jack-Off Program works!


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## tucker01 (Apr 17, 2009)

Merkaba said:


> Thank you.
> 
> And i have seen the vids. Not all of them, but enough to know.  hell if you want to use p90 or tae bo or whatever then do it.  And as I say, what is the key word they pretty much legally have to use?  "system" ....which is not the dvd but also you watching your diet.  Which is the biggest key.  If you think you can "ab lounge" 10 inches off your waiste then go ahead, but its the ab lounge system that gets it done. And that is not eating to gain fat.  Period.  As I stated before, buy all the dvds you want and workout to what you want to I could care less.  My point is that its not necessary.  I'll make a video of me doing jump rope and jumping jacks and sell it to you if you like!  As long as you watch your intake my Jumping-Jack-Off Program works!



I think you mean "Jumping-Jack-Off" system


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## T_man (Apr 17, 2009)

I think the P90x probably gives information and step by step guidance to people, which they are too lazy or too time restricted to come on forums like these and ask for help. It's hard sometimes when people give you workout exercises and tell you to devise your own workout especially if you do not know what you're doing, like most of the people who purchase P90x. It also gives them information about their diet which, like me before I hit these forums, didn't have a clue about. As a beginner, I probably would have bought it because sure enough it would have given me results because I was a beginner, and secondly because I didn't know what to do. 

Now that I'm a bit more wise I would rather pay you guys, Merkaba, Built, Patrick etc when coming on the forums because I know you guys have much more experience and are more advanced lifters plus you have personal experience, than buy any "fitness DVD" product.

If I was fat and I was trained to run 100m in 16 sec I would be thrilled! If I continued to train and got better and better, and got down to 11 seconds, and saw someone else training another fat guy for running 100m in 16 sec, I would think he was getting ripped off because instead of me training him to run 12 sec, he's only going to run 16 sec at the end of his training. Yet even though 16 seconds won't be as good as he can get, it will be good enough for him for the moment.

Now I know to most of you wont understand that analogy because I think like an ostrich that has its head up its butt crack but hopefully someone can decipher it and get at what I'm saying.


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## Perdido (Apr 17, 2009)

I wouldn't buy the program but can see why some would. There's a ton of good info here, maybe too much and it does take awhile for a newbie to absorb in a short period of time. And many people who respond with great answers to questions but there are many who just want to pop the dvd in, train and be done with it. I don't really think it makes them lazy or stupid. Maybe they just to have the interest or patience it takes to get involved and ask questions.

BTW I see your point T man.


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## Vixx (Apr 24, 2009)

jmorrison, the tone of Merk's first post, and the tone of his last, are like night and day. The last one he made I completely understand. As far as 'marketing junk the average Joe does not need', that is clearly supposition on your part and makes a HUGE leap of faith as to what one person needs. *YOU* may not need it, and that's fine, but et's not pre-supposed what other's need. However, it is NOTtrue that I can go look anywhere on the internet and find a pre-made workout routine, soup to nuts, WITH 12 1-hour long DVDs showing me HOW to do them, how to MODIFY them in case I'm too weak or tired or joints are hurting, with written explanations as to what each excercise does, why you do it, along with a sheet to record everything on, INCLUDING a very informative diet plan. Someone COULD make a video of themselves jump roping and tell them to eat right and it would work, sure, but no one would buy it because they would see it for what it is (shamwow as someone put it earlier). At least this way, the workouts are ALL different, I feel like different parts of my body are worked pretty well, and I have a means to record my progress. Sure I could have done it by myself, but it would have taken HOURS. And my time is worth alot to me. I do find it incredibly shallow though to call $120 for everything a 'high dollar amount' when many of the supplements many here take (from what I've read on the forums) cost drastically more and are regularly occurring costs whereas buying the DVDs and books are a one-time fee.

Rahaas and T-Man hit the nail on the head. It's NOT for those of you who are 'body building', who have spent years in the Gym and know a great deal about the sport and the art. And I'm not taking away from that in ANY way the value and knowledge you have here. However, to just write off anything wholesale without understanding the people it's made for, without having seen or done the workouts, and when making statements that are inconsistent and just flat wrong, is disingenuous. That is my point. And calling people 'stupid' who buy it, or that the people that use it are 'too lazy to do their own research', does little to garner 'respect' for the person making those comments, regardless of how knowledgeable they are.


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## Built (Apr 24, 2009)

vixx, I think we've all moved on from that tone, but to defend it just a bit, I don't think it was truly directed at you. You were just in the line of fire.

Most of us in physical culture are very, very tired of the nonsense that is foisted upon frustrated "ordinary people" looking to drop weight, largely because many of us STARTED in this lifestyle through the desire to drop weight. We've been through it ourselves - I can tell you that I went through it, from my early twenties to my late thirties, kept trying to exercise it off, REALLY didn't understand diet, and never understood why it wasn't working. It caused my soul - and my body - a lot of harm.

In any case, please stick around. Experience tells me that no matter how you DROP the weight, you will KEEP it off when you really own diet and rely upon it first and foremost for long term weight control. The sooner you get away from very high levels of exercise and move toward heavy lifting and diet to serve this function, the sooner you'll enjoy the lifelong control of your fitness level, health and appearance. 

My .02

Again, my congrats for your current success. Let's make sure it STAYS off.


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## ClosingTime (Apr 24, 2009)

I'll throw in my 2 cents. Like any intense workout I think p90 has the ability to get you in good shape. But if you want an intense workout just send me the $150 and I'll send you the workout we do at my gym for MMA training hehe.


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## mccabe21 (Sep 13, 2009)

*What can you expect from the p90X?*

If your looking to get "huge" then the P90X is not for you. The P90X is for people who want to lose a few pounds and increase their muscle mass a bit. The results will vary from the level in which you commit. 

The trainer of the P90X system, Tony Horton, talks about the workouts only being half of the equation, the other half is the diet. Prior to beginning the P90X, this was something that I never wrapped my head around. So I decided to commit and have been on a 2200/day diet for the past two months. I'll spare you all the details, but each day I ingest around 180grams of protein. 

The workouts have been 6 days a week and I have not missed a single one. In the 9 weeks that I have been doing it, I have lost 21 pounds and have "leaned up". I won't be posing for any muscle magazines anytime soon but I have never been this cut, even when I wrestled in high school. You can check out my pics and blog at Ironmagazine dot com  (They wouldn't let me write my page in here!)

So if your looking to get off the couch and get into shape the the P90X is for you. If you are already a "workout-aholic" and are looking for something new, try the Insanity program by Beachbody. I have seen in shape grown men cry after trying to finish one of these workouts. Good luck with whatever you do!


----------



## DiGiTaL (Sep 13, 2009)

Maybe p90 works for you but I just found out yesterday 2 of my friends did it, and they have never been so disappointed in their fitness time. I wonder what that means.


----------



## Elson (Sep 14, 2009)

paying for readily available info is dumb.


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## jmorrison (Sep 14, 2009)

I will say this.  Since posting on this months ago, several guys out here on the rig have started this program.  The few that stuck it out really have shown some remarkable fat loss, and are really lean now.

I stand by my original point that this isn't needed by anyone who isn't afraid to do some research, but I will say that for someone who doesn't want to do that footwork and has the dedication to follow the program...this apparently isn't a bad one to follow.


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## plums_jp (Sep 14, 2009)

another P90X thread... i'm gonna be sick


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## JuanMete0r (Nov 30, 2009)

I just had to comment this thread after reading all of the shit talking about the P90X. First off it fucking kicks your ass. IDC who you are. It changes your life, if you stick to it. That's no bullshit, and that's no fucking joke. And to the ones who say that you cannot get "stronger" or build mass off this program, you're just a silly wanker. Of course you have to change your workout, you have to do more weight and more reps. Common fucking sense right? Or so I thought until I stumbled onto this meat head forum full of idiot ass trainers who have never even attempted the program. So this goes out to those of you who are reading this forum and thinking of not doing the P90X because you want to build MASS. Do the program, gradually do more reps and more weight, up your protein intake, drink creatine and BRING IT!

Dumbass's.


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## T_man (Nov 30, 2009)

JuanMete0r said:


> I just had to comment this thread after reading all of the shit talking about the P90X. First off it fucking kicks your ass. IDC who you are. It changes your life, if you stick to it. That's no bullshit, and that's no fucking joke. And to the ones who say that you cannot get "stronger" or build mass off this program, you're just a silly wanker. Of course you have to change your workout, you have to do more weight and more reps. Common fucking sense right? Or so I thought until I stumbled onto this meat head forum full of idiot ass trainers who have never even attempted the program. So this goes out to those of you who are reading this forum and thinking of not doing the P90X because you want to build MASS. Do the program, gradually do more reps and more weight, up your protein intake, drink creatine and BRING IT!
> 
> Dumbass's.


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## Built (Nov 30, 2009)

JuanMete0r said:


> I just had to comment this thread after reading all of the shit talking about the P90X. First off it fucking kicks your ass. IDC who you are. It changes your life, if you stick to it. That's no bullshit, and that's no fucking joke. And to the ones who say that you cannot get "stronger" or build mass off this program, you're just a silly wanker. Of course you have to change your workout, you have to do more weight and more reps. Common fucking sense right? Or so I thought until I stumbled onto this meat head forum full of idiot ass trainers who have never even attempted the program. So this goes out to those of you who are reading this forum and thinking of not doing the P90X because you want to build MASS. Do the program, gradually do more reps and more weight, up your protein intake, drink creatine and BRING IT!
> 
> Dumbass's.


Pix please.


----------



## Stewart14 (Nov 30, 2009)

JuanMete0r said:


> I just had to comment this thread after reading all of the shit talking about the P90X. First off it fucking kicks your ass. IDC who you are. It changes your life, if you stick to it. That's no bullshit, and that's no fucking joke. And to the ones who say that you cannot get "stronger" or build mass off this program, you're just a silly wanker. Of course you have to change your workout, you have to do more weight and more reps. Common fucking sense right? Or so I thought until I stumbled onto this meat head forum full of idiot ass trainers who have never even attempted the program. So this goes out to those of you who are reading this forum and thinking of not doing the P90X because you want to build MASS. Do the program, gradually do more reps and more weight, up your protein intake, drink creatine and BRING IT!
> 
> Dumbass's.


 

oh and the correct spelling would be "dumbasses"  I guess p90x can't help with grammar.


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## Merkaba (Nov 30, 2009)

JuanMete0r said:


> I just had to comment this thread after reading all of the shit talking about the P90X. First off it fucking kicks your ass. IDC who you are. It changes your life, if you stick to it. That's no bullshit, and that's no fucking joke. And to the ones who say that you cannot get "stronger" or build mass off this program, you're just a silly wanker. Of course you have to change your workout, you have to do more weight and more reps. Common fucking sense right? Or so I thought until I stumbled onto this meat head forum full of idiot ass trainers who have never even attempted the program. So this goes out to those of you who are reading this forum and thinking of not doing the P90X because you want to build MASS. Do the program, gradually do more reps and more weight, up your protein intake, drink creatine and BRING IT!
> 
> Dumbass's.



Nice first post!  Thanks for showing how P90 could possibly make you more stupid.
A Knowledgeable program isn't concerned with "kicking your ass".  That shit went out in the 90's.  Maybe the P-90's???  

  "up your protein intake, drink creatine and bring it"    

I agree lets see some pics!  And I guarantee you I can get similar results with a jump rope.


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## P-funk (Dec 1, 2009)

Here is a recent article I wrote looking at Exercise vs. Working out and talking about some of the common trends (like p90x) in the fitness industry:

Exercising vs. Training - A Controversial Debate — Patrick Ward, MS CSCS LMT


patrick


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## wingchunjohn (Dec 10, 2009)

Hi All,

Just joined the forum as I've just bought my wife the P90X dvd's (only cost $30) off amazon so I'm not that concerned with the price.

I think it will be great for my wife as she has trouble sticking to programs I've designed for her etc.  A DVD that fully shows her what to do will be great.

I've even said in April 2010 I will do it too in order to get lean for the summer, although I am concerned about losing the mass I've got.  I will change the program slightly.

For the record for the past 2 years I haven't lifted weights.  I've been doing dynamic tension type exercises, pushups etc.  since Jan 09 I've had a shoulder injury which meant I couldn't do any weights/pushups etc so have done almost 11 months of JUST dynamic tension - with great results.  I'm now bigger than I've ever been and feel great.

I do plan to start weights again in Jan and will be bulking up a bit more until April/may - when I plan to do the P90X with my wife.

I'll let you all know of any results/experiences I have with the program.

I was quite put off by this thread I have to admit, but Vixx made a good argument.  I agree with him that certain people on here are slightly biased and arrogant about it.  I don't want to point the finger at anyone or stir up any shit as I'm new to the forum and would like to stay on here.  It's wrong to abuse people/or a system they are doing - fair enough give an opinion, but to trash a product they haven't tried is just arrogant.

Anyway, I look forward to being a member of this forum and will be asking advice on lots.

 - John


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## soxmuscle (Dec 11, 2009)

P-funk said:


> Here is a recent article I wrote looking at Exercise vs. Working out and talking about some of the common trends (like p90x) in the fitness industry:
> 
> Exercising vs. Training - A Controversial Debate ??? Patrick Ward, MS CSCS LMT
> 
> ...



Really good article.


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## Merkaba (Dec 11, 2009)

wingchunjohn said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just joined the forum as I've just bought my wife the P90X dvd's (only cost $30) off amazon so I'm not that concerned with the price.
> 
> ...



I've never tried eating dynamite or jumping off of a roof but I know enough about the makeup of dynamite and I know what gravity does.  Thats how people can trash a system.  If you want to do p90 x then do it!  I wouldn't do it or recommend it if it was free.  That's my opinion.  Too much over the top and high risk shlt going on. 

The problem is that most people don't know how the body works, how it gets lean, or builds muscles. They only know what joe the marketer and his mag says or what their friends tell them.  I see awesome ripped guys in the gym daily. Would I do half the shlt I see them doing?  No.   

Like I said if I had it to sell and you bought it more power to me.  As I said, too much unnecessary and high stress shit going on.  Like if I saw someone rounded their back on deadlifts, but you're trying to give me advice on deadlifts.  You're screwed in the eyes of those that know. 

Its greatly marketed and I'm sure it "kicks your ass" as Juan said a few posts up.  Thats great because people think that's how you get in shape and build muscle and burn fat and blah blah.  

 I and alot of other people know better.  

Good luck and I hope you or your wife don't get injured.


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## wingchunjohn (Dec 12, 2009)

Alright!  I can't believe you're the moderator of this forum!!  You're so rude and arrogant to people - No need for it mate!

Must be roid rage - Don't think for a minute other people believe you are natural!  One look at your pics proves you're not!!!!


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## Built (Dec 12, 2009)

wingchunjohn, settle down. I just read merkaba's post and he speaks the truth. I saw nothing rude or arrogant on there. 

merkaba's 100% natural. I prepped him for his last contest - I should know. His physique is most obviously natural - there are tipoffs to an assisted physique that he does not have - in particular, his delts don't look spherical. He's got great genetics, and like many people who train well, he has found that the smarter he trained and the better he ate, the better his genetics became.

The programme you purchased your wife will "work" in the sense that it burns off calories and if she does not overeat to compensate, she will lose weight. 

If she is VERY overweight, she will likely become injured from the plyometrics. 

If she is very well conditioned and likes the feeling of training hard, she'll like this programme. 

If she is very lean and looking to become leaner, she may find she loses too much muscle by dieting hard while training this way. 

It all comes down to tailoring the approach to improve your chances of succeeding at reaching your particular goal.


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## maxpro2 (Dec 13, 2009)

It seems like there are a lot of posts in support of P90X that are very *suspect* in the sense that they are by all new members are basically straight sales pitches. 

Now I am not necessarily saying that people who have a stake in P90X are "shilling"; however, it does seem very very suspect and worth looking into more, such as investigating IP addresses, looking for identical user names on other forums also promoting P90X, etc.


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## Merkaba (Dec 15, 2009)

wingchunjohn said:


> Alright!  I can't believe you're the moderator of this forum!!  You're so rude and arrogant to people - No need for it mate!
> 
> Must be roid rage - Don't think for a minute other people believe you are natural!  One look at your pics proves you're not!!!!



EXACTLY!  Hey Wing thanks alot.  If you looked at those pics and thought I was on gear then that lets me know I was doing something right!  That was my first show and I had probably another 5 lbs of water I needed to get off! I'm 33 and have been "working out" and training since I was in 7th grade.  

Yep, Built helped me prep for that show.  Geez man I really appreciate it!  Thanks Seriously.   

The only thing I'ver ever taken was adequate education.  
I'll apologize for the harsh approach earlier.  Maybe I was a little worked up from this thread.  I'm sorry.  And I hope you stick around.  

Now go do some dam air squats.


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## Merkaba (Dec 15, 2009)

maxpro2 said:


> It seems like there are a lot of posts in support of P90X that are very *suspect* in the sense that they are by all new members are basically straight sales pitches.
> 
> Now I am not necessarily saying that people who have a stake in P90X are "shilling"; however, it does seem very very suspect and worth looking into more, such as investigating IP addresses, looking for identical user names on other forums also promoting P90X, etc.



I've thought the same thing. I know alot of people may be googling the term and coming up with this thread in there results.  Might be likely.  But I wouldnt doubt it being more than that.


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## wingchunjohn (Dec 17, 2009)

Merkaba - I apologise for abusing you on my last post - I just get annoyed on the net sometimes when I ask for advice etc and get people being smart etc and giving abuse.  I'm not saying that's what you meant, I probably just took it the wrong way and snapped.

I'm sure it's the same for you getting idiots coming on here, making one post and then never seen online again etc etc.

As for the P90X thread, yes I googled it and this is one of the forums that came up.

My wife's started the program and is enjoying it.  I doubt I'll do it fully, as after looking at it I think it'll burn more muscle off my body than what I'd like.

Also, since my shoulder injury I would like to take things more slowly (instead of jumping around etc).

Merkaba - You look great in your pics, and yes compared to some you do look on roids - but as you say, you've been working out most of your life and deserve to look like you do.  Sorry for the roid comment!!

I'd like to stick around on this forum so I hope we can put this behind us and move forward and chat about training techniques, methods etc etc 

All the best

John


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## Karlp327 (Dec 18, 2009)

*Physics of P90X*

I heard a wiseman state that he only states the Laws of Physics and not writes them.  I have been off an off P90X for about two years and tell anyone who asks that it is great and I prefer to be in the midst of a round of 90 days of P90X than not.

Workout = progress towards a fit life.  Each our bodies do respond differently to workouts but in general it is pretty much the same.  You get out what you put in.  

I am by no means the pinnacle of physical prowess.  I am a regular guy who has a family and like to be fit.  Life gets in the way because my family comes first.  True Bodybuilding requires more commitment than I can consistently provide.

The very first info commercial that I saw stated plainly about muscle confusion.  This is what I bought into.  I always knew that I did hit a barrier when lifting.  Yes, it is my lack of experience amongst purist in bodybuilding that limited me and lack of a trainer.  I prefer to workout at home.

In performing 2 rounds back to back of P90X, I did get in the fittest shape I had been in for a long time.  Despite babying a tweaky knee, this or that. I was fit.  I sweat like crazy during the Yoga session.  Believe me it took me a while to admit that did Yoga.  I am fine with it and appreciate the well balanced approach that P90X takes.  

One side note:  I took several weeks going through the workouts with increasing the length of my particpation until I could complete a few completely before starting the clock for Round 1.  

No one walks into a weight room and throws 350 on the bench and lifts it.

The thorough combinations of workouts that I never have to think about works great for me.  I do not have even think what I am about to do or plan for it.  I just need to block out time.  I get up see what day of the week it is and run the routine first thing in the morning.

The combining of workouts worked for fitness and not bodybuilding.  One would say you are a bodybuilder after a while but not to me.  I am a fit athlete who at one time aspired to be more like a bodybuilder.  

Last bit of advice for someone looking to get fit.  I found P90X Find what you enjoy and then stick with it.  In time we will all get to where we want to be if we stick to the plan.  Make a plan.


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## Merkaba (Dec 18, 2009)

wingchunjohn said:


> Merkaba - I apologise for abusing you on my last post - I just get annoyed on the net sometimes when I ask for advice etc and get people being smart etc and giving abuse.  I'm not saying that's what you meant, I probably just took it the wrong way and snapped.
> 
> I'm sure it's the same for you getting idiots coming on here, making one post and then never seen online again etc etc.
> 
> ...


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## Kimora (Dec 27, 2009)

Merkaba said:


> I know. The thing is that people in general can't do the proper research like many of us "gym heads"....so they get taken advantage of. I mean, its a business idea. Packaging looks good, you make some commercials and be sure you say the ass-lounge "system" helps you lose inches because that system is not just the ass lounge, but also the book that says watch what you eat and get some cardio in. What, so I can't cut inches by rocking in a goddam ab hammock for 5 minutes a day?
> 
> Fuck nuts....to have the audacity to make a piece of equipment with the word "lounge" in it. To appeal to the laziness of people. The idea of working out while still sitting on your lazy ass. Genius! Brilliant!
> 
> ...


 







K man you seem like a big ole meathead to me.I wrestled in high school boxed a little after,and currently train in BJJ.We do crossfit workouts about 4 nights a week,the fighters do it 5 to 6 depending on how close the fight is.Sure i could go to the gym and pump iron like a madman and get all diesel but what does it do?It doesn't build explosiveness or muscle flexibility,doesn't work the fast twitch muscles with are crucial in punching and explosive takedowns.
Im not all scientific on the shit but i know if your big musclebound butt came in our gym,you would get manhandled by guys half your size.Cause all your doin is putting on large mass which weighs you down and has no real effectivness in overall fitness other than to look like a genetic freak.


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## Merkaba (Dec 28, 2009)

Kimora said:


> K man you seem like a big ole meathead to me.I wrestled in high school boxed a little after,and currently train in BJJ.We do crossfit workouts about 4 nights a week,the fighters do it 5 to 6 depending on how close the fight is.Sure i could go to the gym and pump iron like a madman and get all diesel but what does it do?It doesn't build explosiveness or muscle flexibility,doesn't work the fast twitch muscles with are crucial in punching and explosive takedowns.
> Im not all scientific on the shit but i know if your big musclebound butt came in our gym,you would get manhandled by guys half your size.Cause all your doin is putting on large mass which weighs you down and has no real effectivness in overall fitness other than to look like a genetic freak.


Hello and welcome to the board Kimora....


Frankly I could care less about what you think or the deep ignorance that you display.  Building explosiveness and or flexibility is a matter of a specific routine catered to that goal.  I don't train to just put on weight or size and never have implied such for myself or for anyone. I'm doing hatha yoga tonight!   

You're just pissed that someone disagrees with you and your ilk.    And where did I say anything about "pumping iron" or doing it like a madman for that matter?  The fact of the matter is that most people simply are not current on what matters and what is safe.  Again you can do crossfit and p90 and go bobsleddin' 10 times a week for all I care dude.  Go ahead!   Whoever decided to do cross fit  4 or 5 times a week well more power to them.  Ask some of the champions if they would have time to do that shit, if they do I'll eat my hat!  You got any champions in that gym?  And further more how do you know I haven't been training in muay thai and aikido  since I was 8 and could put you in a "Kimora" from the bottom guard position and tap your ass out in 2 minutes and manhandle half of your gym? I weigh 255 now and will be 220 in 5 months so I'm not about getting "diesel" or "pumping iron" I'm about setting goals and acheiving them in the safest and most efficient manner I know how.  If you don't know what you're talking about around here you will just get embarrassed and probably more pissed off.  I don't try to throw my weight around and make points based on some martial arts gym or anything I do. I base it on facts of what work and what doesn't.   Go play wii something. I'm glad you joined us to post your opinion.  Now stick around and back it up!


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## gtbmed (Dec 28, 2009)

Kimora said:


> K man you seem like a big ole meathead to me.I wrestled in high school boxed a little after,and currently train in BJJ.We do crossfit workouts about 4 nights a week,the fighters do it 5 to 6 depending on how close the fight is.Sure i could go to the gym and pump iron like a madman and get all diesel but what does it do?It doesn't build explosiveness or muscle flexibility,doesn't work the fast twitch muscles with are crucial in punching and explosive takedowns.
> Im not all scientific on the shit but i know if your big musclebound butt came in our gym,you would get manhandled by guys half your size.Cause all your doin is putting on large mass which weighs you down and has no real effectivness in overall fitness other than to look like a genetic freak.



A lot of things crossfit does don't build explosiveness or muscle flexibility either.


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## soxmuscle (Dec 28, 2009)

Kimora is a douche


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 29, 2009)

gtbmed said:


> *ALL* of things crossfit does don't build explosiveness or muscle flexibility either.



Correction.


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## MCx2 (Dec 29, 2009)

P-funk said:


> Here is a recent article I wrote looking at Exercise vs. Working out and talking about some of the common trends (like p90x) in the fitness industry:
> 
> Exercising vs. Training - A Controversial Debate ??? Patrick Ward, MS CSCS LMT
> 
> ...



This link isn't working for me.


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## tucker01 (Dec 29, 2009)

ReproMan said:


> This link isn't working for me.



I think there site is down right now.


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## gtbmed (Dec 29, 2009)

Dale Mabry said:


> Correction.



Well, they do things like Oly lifts that definitely build power and flexibility, but they don't do them in a consistent or directed way so as to actually build anything, so I guess you're right.


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## PainandGain (Dec 29, 2009)

Kimora said:


> K man you seem like a big ole meathead to me.I wrestled in high school boxed a little after,and currently train in BJJ.We do crossfit workouts about 4 nights a week,the fighters do it 5 to 6 depending on how close the fight is.Sure i could go to the gym and pump iron like a madman and get all diesel but what does it do?It doesn't build explosiveness or muscle flexibility,doesn't work the fast twitch muscles with are crucial in punching and explosive takedowns.
> Im not all scientific on the shit but i know if your big musclebound butt came in our gym,you would get manhandled by guys half your size.Cause all your doin is putting on large mass which weighs you down and has no real effectivness in overall fitness other than to look like a genetic freak.



What does all that matter if his only goal was to build mass in the first place??


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## Kimora (Dec 30, 2009)

*You again*



Merkaba said:


> I've never tried eating dynamite or jumping off of a roof but I know enough about the makeup of dynamite and I know what gravity does. Thats how people can trash a system. If you want to do p90 x then do it! I wouldn't do it or recommend it if it was free. That's my opinion. Too much over the top and high risk shlt going on.
> 
> The problem is that most people don't know how the body works, how it gets lean, or builds muscles. They only know what joe the marketer and his mag says or what their friends tell them. I see awesome ripped guys in the gym daily. Would I do half the shlt I see them doing? No.
> 
> ...


 


What your really sayin is"im too big and ofey to do anything but lift weights while watching myself in the mirror'.The reason you downplay this is because your not able to actually do it yourself.Anybody can pump out heavy weight eat like a horse and get bigger.Total body fitness is another thing in itself.As i think i have stated on other post where you downplay something you have never done nor can do,hey awipe did you know most MMA fighters use plyometrics to build strength and explosivness?Nope thats right their not infront of a mirror grunting and whacking off to themselves and doin nothing more than building bigger more useless muscle mass.They are actually becoming leaner stronger faster and healthier than some big oath who is prob on roids ever could hope for.And if you think just lifting weights makes you tough i would love for you to google the countless vids of muscle bound retards getting battered sensless by trained fighters half their size(fighters who use the shit you downplay to become stronger).


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## Kimora (Dec 30, 2009)

*No*



PainandGain said:


> What does all that matter if his only goal was to build mass in the first place??


 


Um because he is always in here downing people who have a diff type of training than him.Trying to force his meatheadedness on others who could give a care less how much he can lift and how small his package is in those gay spandex pants.


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## Kimora (Dec 30, 2009)

*Lol*



Merkaba said:


> Hello and welcome to the board Kimora....
> 
> 
> Frankly I could care less about what you think or the deep ignorance that you display. Building explosiveness and or flexibility is a matter of a specific routine catered to that goal. I don't train to just put on weight or size and never have implied such for myself or for anyone. I'm doing hatha yoga tonight!
> ...


 


Aikido is that gay stuff steven segal takes get real.There is no kimora in aikido also no ground work either it's all about control and staying in an upright position(i took it for years bud don't bs me)I have been in BJJ for years and i doubt you could tap me or anybody else out at my gym.Hybrid Academy of Martial arts in Virginia Beach VA,if you would like to come get your ass handed to ya.LOL what a joke man you think you can beat people who have trained to fight for most of there lives taking a few muay thai and aikido classes?You may have all these meathead dbags on this forum hooked with your bs but im just laughin.You guys laugh at me for having diff views of what works in the gym,yet everytime i see someone ask a simple question about p90x or something you don't agree on you come in with some smartass comment.Your busted dude keep being mister bodybuilding.com badman.Im just gonna keep goin to my gym and laughin at losers like you who think because they can bench a certain amount they can beat trained fighters and know everything about health and fitness.


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## Kimora (Dec 30, 2009)

*So..*

I will not post again,your just gonna come back with some i weight blah blah i did muay thai i could tapout a bear blah blah.Your full of shit bro.If you really wanna get your ass handed to ya come to Hybrid Academy of Martial Arts in Virginia Beach VA.Coah buck welcomes big meathead tough guys who need a good asswhoppin.Your prob gonna comback with some 2 page post about how much you can bench and stuff but im outta here.Please please come get manhandled and then post a vid on this site so everybody can laugh.Brandon Vera used to train with coach buck back whenhe was at linx i bet you could tap him out also amirtire?


----------



## Kimora (Dec 30, 2009)

*Yeah man*



JuanMete0r said:


> I just had to comment this thread after reading all of the shit talking about the P90X. First off it fucking kicks your ass. IDC who you are. It changes your life, if you stick to it. That's no bullshit, and that's no fucking joke. And to the ones who say that you cannot get "stronger" or build mass off this program, you're just a silly wanker. Of course you have to change your workout, you have to do more weight and more reps. Common fucking sense right? Or so I thought until I stumbled onto this meat head forum full of idiot ass trainers who have never even attempted the program. So this goes out to those of you who are reading this forum and thinking of not doing the P90X because you want to build MASS. Do the program, gradually do more reps and more weight, up your protein intake, drink creatine and BRING IT!
> 
> Dumbass's.


 


Yeah dude we need pics of you in a thong flexing with your small whacker from pumping roids in here or your not gonna be believed


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## Perdido (Dec 30, 2009)

Kimora said:


> Yeah dude we need pics of you in a thong flexing with your small whacker from pumping roids in here or your not gonna be believed



What are you like 12 years old?


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## gtbmed (Dec 30, 2009)

You do know that your ability to improve "explosiveness" via plyometrics is extremely limited, and that having untrained people performing plyometrics (which are usually high-impact movements) is pretty dangerous?

Power is based on 2 components.  You can train yourself to develop force more quickly (and this is what plyometrics are for), but without a good strength base, you're not going to develop much explosiveness at all.  Your rate of force development may be quite good, but if your max. force output is low, what good is that?

Show me an olympic weightlifter - the most powerful/explosive athletes in the world - and I'll show you a person who does plenty of heavy squats to increase his or her strength base.


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## Merkaba (Dec 30, 2009)

Kimora you're such a big man and an mma fighter but you're running away?  You know what that's called?  Being a pussy!  Stand in the ring and fight like a man! You bit off more than you could chew, got backed into a corner of knowlege, now you're just talking smack and flailing like a punk.  How many jokes can I find about mma fighters? What level are you at when you want to talk about kickin ass at every chance you get?  You're a simpleton.  Unevolved.    

....I don't care about you or your gym or BJ's or BJJ or your coach, or any of your little shit talking. When you're ready to talk about what works and what doesn't work in the safest and most efficient manner within the scope of fitness and training instead of pout and wine like a little kid because someone kicks around some training system you like, then feel free to chime in.  Bring a valid point or some data instead of your shit talking.  Now who looks like a meat head.  Most people would probably call you a douche-bag.

 Or maybe you'll rejoin with a different user name and act more like a man.  Not a boy who think's he's a man because he keeps spouting about mma.  Go watch a fight on ppv and get your rocks off until you gain some knowledge, child.


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## mccask (Jan 24, 2010)

*My Experience*



Merkaba said:


> Kimora you're such a big man and an mma fighter but you're running away?  You know what that's called?  Being a pussy!  Stand in the ring and fight like a man! You bit off more than you could chew, got backed into a corner of knowlege, now you're just talking smack and flailing like a punk.  How many jokes can I find about mma fighters? What level are you at when you want to talk about kickin ass at every chance you get?  You're a simpleton.  Unevolved.
> 
> ....I don't care about you or your gym or BJ's or BJJ or your coach, or any of your little shit talking. When you're ready to talk about what works and what doesn't work in the safest and most efficient manner within the scope of fitness and training instead of pout and wine like a little kid because someone kicks around some training system you like, then feel free to chime in.  Bring a valid point or some data instead of your shit talking.  Now who looks like a meat head.  Most people would probably call you a douche-bag.
> 
> Or maybe you'll rejoin with a different user name and act more like a man.  Not a boy who think's he's a man because he keeps spouting about mma.  Go watch a fight on ppv and get your rocks off until you gain some knowledge, child.



I too came across this thread via Google. I registered just to make a few comments and never come back.

Merkaba, engaging in this kind of argument with every troll on this thread does not make you appear in control as a moderator. You were overly aggressive in your first posts, backed off, and then took the bait again. 

Unlike you, I have tried the disks and witnessed the results first hand. I am not going to proselytize about the program, but 'my' results were good. This is a good 'all around' program with some weaknesses: chest, hamstring, and lower back development are minimal. No surprise as these muscle groups best benefit from heavier than bodyweight loads. I particularly enjoy plyo because it is so different from my usual workouts.

Will this program ready someone w/ limited experience and/or on hiatus from regular exercise? Yes. The OP asked for help with where to go next. That was your chance to ask a few questions, understand his goals and experience, and lead by example. The fact that he was already 'off the couch', had engaged in exercise, and seeking advice from 'experts' displayed a level of commitment that many don't already have.

The sad result is this extended and deviated thread that turned into a pissing match with name calling from a mod. Good luck to this forum...


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## PushAndPull (Jan 24, 2010)

Saying your shitty opinion on P90x and Merkaba then running is cowardly at best.
I don't respect cowards or their opinions.


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## Merkaba (Jan 24, 2010)

mccask said:


> I too came across this thread via Google. I registered just to make a few comments and never come back.
> 
> Merkaba, engaging in this kind of argument with every troll on this thread does not make you appear in control as a moderator. You were overly aggressive in your first posts, backed off, and then took the bait again.
> 
> ...


As I said. Give me a jump rope and couple of jugs of water and I can get the same results. I don't care one bit what you think about these dvd's or any others.  What about "hip hop" abs? Go do that one.   I don't need to try the dvd's.  You know why?  The same reason I don't need to get shot to know its bad and will hurt.  Dude, do p90x all you want to!  Great, more power to you.  My sister swears taking lecithin helps her lose fat.  Buy it up sis!  Anyone can workout and lose weight its easy.   Many of us know better and SAFER scientifically proven ways of accomplishing certain fitness goals without using water-cut pro models. It's the same ad every time: "Gyms and trainers can be expensive buy me now and save money and learn a bunch of unnecessary and high risk moves to get you from point a to point z by going through 24 other points designed to breed some sense of accomplishment and "confusion" instead of going straight to point z.   Now you mean to tell me you logged in to come talk smack and leave like a kid because you have no valid points to make or argue? Or do you have anything to contribute to the board?  Thanks for your opinion. But its just all it is.  Do you know anything on how metabolics work?  How about the kreb's cycle?  How about leptin?  What about the role the central nervous system plays in the overall scheme of things?   

I'll wait on you to log in again as another name or wait on the next googler to come talk smack or maybe perhaps add something of substance to the argument.  And I'm a mod, so what.  That doesn't mean I'm gonna sit back while you or someone takes shots.  Now if you'll excuse me I have to go do some Ab-Ripper movements so my abs will get ripped!

To any future new readers of this thread.  Remember, Go do p90x as much as you like.  Do it freakin' twice a day! I DO NOT CARE!!!  I will continue to give current and safe advice to my friends and clients.


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## soxmuscle (Jan 25, 2010)

Stop bumping this trash.

The P90X is garbage, as are 95% of the exercise products advertised on infomercials at four in the morning.


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## Merkaba (Jan 25, 2010)

well you know someone will eventually want to come around and chime in because they sell it or their dad's uncle does.  haha


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## kyoun1e (Jan 25, 2010)

P90 is definitely a lightning rod around here. 

I'd say that I would never use it. Reasons: (1) I think there are more efficient ways at losing fat, and (2) the P90 program seems like it would waste away your hard earned muscle. It's neither a muscle maintenance nor a muscle growth program from what I can see.

That said, I think it "works" for many who want to shed some fat, can't get to the gym, can't stick to a fitness program, etc. My cousin and brother in-law both use this. And while I very subtely point out the flaws in the entire program, the bottom line is this: They've lost weight, they continue to adhere to the program, the look much better, and they feel better. Do I feel like I could help them acheive their goals more efficiently with resistance training and a proper diet? Yup. But it's better to leave them along. They're rolling.

So really, this program being good, bad, or ugly depends on your goals and your knowledge of alternative methods of acheiving that goal.

KY


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## soxmuscle (Jan 25, 2010)

kyoun1e said:


> So really, this program being good, bad, or ugly depends on your goals and your knowledge of alternative methods of acheiving that goal.



Excellent point, however, if you think it's the best way to train or even a "good" way to train, you need to either A. shore up your knowledge of exercise or B. accept mediocrity.


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## kyoun1e (Jan 25, 2010)

soxmuscle said:


> Excellent point, however, if you think it's the best way to train or even a "good" way to train, you need to either A. shore up your knowledge of exercise or B. accept mediocrity.



I'd agree most people should do as you suggest. But they wont. 

I'd also say that just as it isn't right for "us" to make a blanket statement and say that P90 "doesn't work," it isn't right for the P90 users to come in here and say it's the best thing since sliced bread...when they probably have not researched / tried other alternatives.

KY


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## chutio13 (Feb 10, 2010)

wow, look at all of these Mr. Universe wanna be's, maybe you guys need to lay off the building muscle mass and let your brain get some of the nutrients you take in.  Because what you are not getting here is a simple point, p90x is not for everyone, but those who need motivation, and are afraid to go to a gym, it's a starting point.  It doesn't promise to make you a muscle head, it just states it will get you into shape, if you follow their program.

Have i tried it, yes.  Is it perfect, like some of you on this forum, NO.  Does it work, to the average person, yes.  It is a path to get people to commit to work out.

Look not everyone wants to be a muscle head, and have 40" arms, if that's you, all the power to you.  But when someone comes to this forum looking for guidance, don't knock them because of what they have been doing, show them a path to get them where they want to be.  Remember you were at some point shown how to get to where you are today by someone who helped you.

Best of luck to all of you....  enjoy your workouts and remember, there are always multiple paths to a goal, and not everyone needs to follow the same path, as not everyone is the same.


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## Merkaba (Feb 10, 2010)

chutio13 said:


> wow, look at all of these Mr. Universe wanna be's, maybe you guys need to lay off the building muscle mass and let your brain get some of the nutrients you take in.  Because what you are not getting here is a simple point, p90x is not for everyone, but those who need motivation, and are afraid to go to a gym, it's a starting point.  It doesn't promise to make you a muscle head, it just states it will get you into shape, if you follow their program.
> 
> Have i tried it, yes.  Is it perfect, like some of you on this forum, NO.  Does it work, to the average person, yes.  It is a path to get people to commit to work out.
> 
> ...



Another person showing their ignorance.  You see, the thing that gets most of us agitated are people like you who think that their is some difference in getting in shape, and thus perpetuate the ignorance cycle.  There is noone on this thread or any other that I know of that suggest everyone workout one way, or lift to be a "muscle head" or put on muscle for that matter. There are many threads here that talk about fat loss without even lifting. But oh you haven't read through any of this forum have you?  The fact is that there are only a few things one can do, And most of them can't be combined. So every time someone like you comes in and ASSUMES that people here criticizing the system are suggesting that people only lift or eat in order to gain muscle or bulk up, then you are only helping to prove our point, and that is that ignorance costs people time and in many cases injury. 

 My points, along with many others, is that one can save time and money and more importantly pain/injury by unlearning traditional methodologies that obviously continue to perpetuate, thus leading the way for any body with some money and a commercial to garner sales from the ignorant.  People watch fat loss reality shows and infomercials and think they need to come close to killing themselves or do some combination of movements or stretches and bends and lunges in order to get in shape.  Meanwhile they could be getting in shape way easier then they probably realize but they have been missing the mark because media tells them they can have prolonged success by trying to combine goals because a water cut fitness model says they should.  Does p90x work?  Yes.  Does Starving yourself and jogging work?  yes.  And my point is how many people are going to be doing either, or any extreme, for the next 20 years?  Learn how the body works so you can know how to get in shape without compromising integrity of your joints or metabolic functions.  

There are a few people who are extremely passionate about training and training others and helping them realize fitness goals and explaining whats optimal and safe.  It's just like if you were an engine expert and you kept seeing someone telling another to add a little sugar to their gas because it helps with rpms.  Can you do it? yes.  Will the car run?  yes.  Do you as an expert know that it's bullshit and there are better ways?  yes.  

Who here has said anything about being or acting perfect? Or following one path?  And yes there is more than one way to skin a cat, some or just better and safer than others.  

I have a close friend that is getting ready to do p90x.  More power to her, she needs something.  She can't afford me, and she needs something to go by.  
Again, my main problem now is with yahoo's like you who come in and want to talk a little smack, with some assumption that everyone is a gym rat or trying to be Ronnie Coleman because you're trying to make some point, but you're making up this assumption because you have a lack of fitness knowledge obviously.  The fact is that the body is only trying to do one of three things at any given moment.  Get Bigger, Smaller, or maintain the same.  Optimal and safest approaches are gained by doing one at a time and cycling through them, and not basing their approach on trying to combine them. 

And fitness programs shouldn't be judged by how fast one enters the kreb's cycle.   

If you actually looked through this forum you would see people giving a multitude of fitness approaches, but I guarantee you the experienced folks are giving ideas of what is safe within the approach and what works based on metabolics, anatomy, and scientific research.  You obviously haven't done that.  You googled P90 probably and landed here, read a thread, and came across this one and made your first post.  As a matter of fact, how did you get here?  If you already have done the program?  The fact is that it's so simple that people want to mystify it because so many people have been trying to do shit like p90 for the past decades.  Trying to base their fat loss off of workout programs they won't do for more than a few months.  

Welcome to the board, don't run off. But frankly I think you owe US, as a community, an apology.  So man up.  Or come back and talk some smack and say you won't return again like the other people did when they get, for lack of better words, owned.


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## soxmuscle (Feb 10, 2010)

Put this to bed.  The P90x is crap.


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## ArnoldsProtege (Feb 10, 2010)

Just to add something in, I have been weight training for years, and have a solid understanding, and downloaded P90x out of curiosity after a friend recomended it.

I did it for a month and guess what? I got really good results. Then again, I would have gotten the exact same results with probably MORE mass if I worked out 6 days a week on my own and instead of messing around with bodyweight exercises for lower back and legs, threw some heavy weight on a bar and starting squatting it, or lifting it, or playing with it in any various fashion (in a safe and controlled manner, of course).

P90x is good if you need the motivation and want someone to tell you what to do. It takes the thinking out of it, which is one of the most appealing factors. Tony specifically says, over and over (Tony is annoying as hell by the way, and I was not surprised at all when I heard that he ventured to cali to be an actor before landing this gig) that all you have to do is push play. Keep pushing play. For 90 days, just turn this tape on, do what I say, you you will be RIPPED. Whats not to like?

My advice to anyone considering P90X: download it for free and try it out. the ab ripper X is super challenging, and I actually enjoy it as a mixup from my standard ab routine. Better then p90x is to adopt a high intensity weight training regimen, using proper form, and doing a circuit. I eventually started turning off my t.v and just following that style workout for an hour, and it worked great. The bottom line is that anything done with consistancy and intensity will work! you will see results!


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## Merkaba (Feb 11, 2010)




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## PushAndPull (Feb 11, 2010)

That's it, i'm getting ripped in 90 days


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## wingchunjohn (Feb 14, 2010)

I can't believe this argument is still going on!!

I bought the P90X system in November for my wife.

She started it mid Jan and has been doing it for around a month now - and guess what?  She's getting great results from it!!

Now if I'd have bought her Hip Hop Abs - she's get results from that!

If I'd have got her Blah Blah Blah.......  She'd get results from that!

Basically all the programs out there are good/and bad - you have to put the effort in.

She could have lifted weights 4 days a week and cardio 4 days a week and guess what?  She'd get results (obviously by following a good healthy diet too - that goes without saying!).

I think everyone should get off their high horses and just admit most exercises systems have good and bad points!  I for example no longer workout with weights due to injuries in the past.  Instead I just workout with my own bodyweight and dynamic tension & isometrics.  And guess what???  I get great results too!  (without any negative side effects!)

MCCASk - I agree totally with your post.  The moderator here is too aggressive for a site.  No offense Merkaba but you need to take a chill pill (no other pills  as they obviously give you rage!! ).  This is your site/forum - you need to be a bit more calmer with your answers.  It's not giving bodybuilders a good image - you are basically living up to the stereotype of the roid rage bodybuilder!!  Be adult about it, admit that P90X (or whatever people are talking about) is not for you and move on.  Let aggressive people get on with it.  No need to stoop down to their level!!

Good luck to you all that try P90X, good luck to you all who try ....... diet or ....system etc - I wish everyone success in however they choose to train.  ditch the roids and be naturally healthy & fit

John


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## Kimora (Feb 14, 2010)

Merkaba said:


> Kimora you're such a big man and an mma fighter but you're running away? You know what that's called? Being a pussy! Stand in the ring and fight like a man! You bit off more than you could chew, got backed into a corner of knowlege, now you're just talking smack and flailing like a punk. How many jokes can I find about mma fighters? What level are you at when you want to talk about kickin ass at every chance you get? You're a simpleton. Unevolved.
> 
> ....I don't care about you or your gym or BJ's or BJJ or your coach, or any of your little shit talking. When you're ready to talk about what works and what doesn't work in the safest and most efficient manner within the scope of fitness and training instead of pout and wine like a little kid because someone kicks around some training system you like, then feel free to chime in. Bring a valid point or some data instead of your shit talking. Now who looks like a meat head. Most people would probably call you a douche-bag.
> 
> Or maybe you'll rejoin with a different user name and act more like a man. Not a boy who think's he's a man because he keeps spouting about mma. Go watch a fight on ppv and get your rocks off until you gain some knowledge, child.


 


Nope just not gonna argue with morons.Im a pussy yet i told you where i train and to come get some,yet you still hide in here with your talking shit with your roid head buds lol whatever keep talkin i told you where im at.Also on further research i also found that Navy Seals train in crossfit to keep in shape while on deployment,i can't wait for you to say some stupid ass shit about that.Also lol olympic weightlifters last time one of those guys stepped into the ring with all their power and explosivness it ended in a assbeating.Please keep thinking your a badass you know where im at if you ever wanna come get some.Where r you at im the pussy yet your still hiding behind your sn.


Oh wait upon even further research not just Navy Seals but almost every SF and SO in the military has taken up crossfit(which is very much like p90x but way more extreme)not powerlifting making i gotta shit on myself faces in the mirror.Why?Because it is functional it builds functional explosivness and strength.Your just pissed cause you can't do it.Hell i bet you can bench 400 pounds yet you would be hard pressed to do 5 pullups.Please blow on this also cause i know you gonna make some 4 page post on some bs you read in a muscle and fitness mag lol.Oh btw you have a small dick.Maybe next time you should pose with some jogging shorts on not some gay ass man thongs.

Just figured i would give you a little update there.Responding to this just proves what a dbag you are as this is most def my last post.Please Please Please,come to my gym so we can show you the meaning of pussy.But i know you won't you'll just comeback with some internet toughguy bs impressing all your meathead internet buds in here and denying the obvious.


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## Merkaba (Feb 15, 2010)

Kimora said:


> Nope just not gonna argue with morons.Im a pussy yet i told you where i train and to come get some,yet you still hide in here with your talking shit with your roid head buds lol whatever keep talkin i told you where im at.Also on further research i also found that Navy Seals train in crossfit to keep in shape while on deployment,i can't wait for you to say some stupid ass shit about that.Also lol olympic weightlifters last time one of those guys stepped into the ring with all their power and explosivness it ended in a assbeating.Please keep thinking your a badass you know where im at if you ever wanna come get some.Where r you at im the pussy yet your still hiding behind your sn.
> 
> 
> Oh wait upon even further research not just Navy Seals but almost every SF and SO in the military has taken up crossfit(which is very much like p90x but way more extreme)not powerlifting making i gotta shit on myself faces in the mirror.Why?Because it is functional it builds functional explosivness and strength.Your just pissed cause you can't do it.Hell i bet you can bench 400 pounds yet you would be hard pressed to do 5 pullups.Please blow on this also cause i know you gonna make some 4 page post on some bs you read in a muscle and fitness mag lol.Oh btw you have a small dick.Maybe next time you should pose with some jogging shorts on not some gay ass man thongs.
> ...




Welcome back "Special" K. And by Special I mean the slow kind of special.  Me big and bad, me wanna fight, me make fire, me don't like, me fight you. Kimora angry! Kimora smash!  You do know that Anger is Fear announced! What are you afraid of? Oh I know, of being wrong, and folks here are proving you wrong, so your fear gets perverted into anger.  Simple, from a simpleton.   

 How much I.Q. does it take to spout the nonsense that you repeat?   I knew you couldn't resist!  Humans are programmable, much like Pavlovs response. You're like a robot.  

We're not talking about the navy seals or any other well institutionalize,fed, and well trained body of people, we're talking about lay-people and p90x. 

 But frankly I still could give a shit who does it.  I don't care if Jesus Christ came down and said hey do p90.  I'm gonna tell him why I don't recommend it and why. Then I'm gonna tell him and show him how he can achieve the same goals in a much safer fashion.   Then we're both gonna laugh at you for falling for the marketing, then we're gonna laugh at you again for coming back to this thread and showing your ignorance, yet again.  Don't you understand?  You can't win this.  Stop.  Give up.  You started off on the wrong foot.  You could've corrected yourself but you choose to go down a road you can't navigate with your small and apparently crippled intuition.  


I don't bench 400, and I can easily knock out 20+ pullups, at 260lbs, without cheating, oh I meant "kipping" like your holy grail P90 suggests.
Not only are you a pussy, but you're also gay! Stop looking at my dick dude!    It's funny that you're talking all of this smack but clicking on my pic link and checking me out, in a sexual way.  It's right at 8 inches and gets the job done. Ask your mom, after you clean up your room, then we'll go get you some ice cream if you're good, young immature boy.  I could've been your dad but the German Shephard beat me to it! See ya later Gay boy.  You wouldn't make it in the Navy Seals, "Don't ask, don't tell!"  


Kimora:


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## Merkaba (Feb 15, 2010)

wingchunjohn said:


> MCCASk - I agree totally with your post.  The moderator here is too aggressive for a site.  No offense Merkaba but you need to take a chill pill (no other pills  as they obviously give you rage!! ).  This is your site/forum - you need to be a bit more calmer with your answers.  It's not giving bodybuilders a good image - you are basically living up to the stereotype of the roid rage bodybuilder!!  Be adult about it, admit that P90X (or whatever people are talking about) is not for you and move on.  Let aggressive people get on with it.  No need to stoop down to their level!!
> 
> Good luck to you all that try P90X, good luck to you all who try ....... diet or ....system etc - I wish everyone success in however they choose to train.  ditch the roids and be naturally healthy & fit
> 
> John


You see this is what I don't tolerate. Someone trying to make a point, but taking a jab at the same time!  I won't take a chill pill when I'm being insulted.  To repeat for people like you and kimora who can't get the point through your thick skulls and remember what people say because you wan't to make a point:....  Does eating 1000 calories a day and jogging 3 miles a day work?  Yes.  Is it full of faults and danger? yes.  If I packaged it and sold it to you would it still be the same?  yes?  

I can be totally intolerant of a system, that's my right.  If you want to be totally supportive of a system that's your right.  If you want to be totally supportive of average results, marketing, and high risk actions, that's your right. It's my right to rip apart a system, especially when giving legitimate reasons why. And its your right if you want to totally stand by it.   But I won't tolerate someone taking a personal shot while trying to do so.  

  Once you've done this you've crossed the line and you've shown your ultimate ignorance because you have no knowledge with which to make a rebuttal.  Only antics.  

Now I jumped a guys ass early on in this thread because he was spamming and trying to break a basic forum rule.  People google in then try to give some affilliate marketing link.  I know how it works cause I'm in the business.  Then we have three of four more idiots doing the same. Then they never come back!  Then have the nerve to try to talk smack?  Go back and count the dumbos who chime in with some nonsense, and/or some link, then never come back.  1,2, or 3 posts.  Who will be the next?  

And this is not My website.  That's not what moderator means. A moderator looks out for things like...spamming and rule violations!  Wow. 

I'm really ready to rip "Biggest Loser" a new one too.  But I know someone distantly involved with the program, and someone who locally trains a former contestant, and well lets say I'll hold off on it.  


Fortunately, saying that you hate some advertised product(that you see on late night infomercials taking advantage of the sad overweight and depressed people up late sulking while looking at rehearsed actors and fitness models and thus more apt to make an emotional trigger purchase((....I have a marketing and fitness education and background)), and doing so repeatedly with much confidence and bravado, is not against the rules.  If Admin or someone tells me they want to start selling it and to tone down my words or make the thread disappear or whatever, I'll happily oblige.

I can't keep repeating myself around here, and won't. I've responded enough and feel that it will give any serious, SERIOUS readers something to think about.  I won't be wasting my time repeating myself or continuously owning people like Kimora.  I might respond with a word or two or an icon.  But time is money and I'm officially tired of wasting it in this thread.  I think I've made my point.  Unless someone has a valid argument I'm restricting my response time on you googled-in p90x first post-passer-by types.  Now go do some unnecessary spinal flexion or something!


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## soxmuscle (Feb 15, 2010)

merkaba 1, peanut gallery 0.


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## jmorrison (Feb 18, 2010)

Merkaba said:


> Another person showing their ignorance.  You see, the thing that gets most of us agitated are people like you who think that their is some difference in getting in shape, and thus perpetuate the ignorance cycle.  There is noone on this thread or any other that I know of that suggest everyone workout one way, or lift to be a "muscle head" or put on muscle for that matter. There are many threads here that talk about fat loss without even lifting. But oh you haven't read through any of this forum have you?  The fact is that there are only a few things one can do, And most of them can't be combined. So every time someone like you comes in and ASSUMES that people here criticizing the system are suggesting that people only lift or eat in order to gain muscle or bulk up, then you are only helping to prove our point, and that is that ignorance costs people time and in many cases injury.
> 
> My points, along with many others, is that one can save time and money and more importantly pain/injury by unlearning traditional methodologies that obviously continue to perpetuate, thus leading the way for any body with some money and a commercial to garner sales from the ignorant.  People watch fat loss reality shows and infomercials and think they need to come close to killing themselves or do some combination of movements or stretches and bends and lunges in order to get in shape.  Meanwhile they could be getting in shape way easier then they probably realize but they have been missing the mark because media tells them they can have prolonged success by trying to combine goals because a water cut fitness model says they should.  Does p90x work?  Yes.  Does Starving yourself and jogging work?  yes.  And my point is how many people are going to be doing either, or any extreme, for the next 20 years?  Learn how the body works so you can know how to get in shape without compromising integrity of your joints or metabolic functions.
> 
> ...



Absolutely phenomenal post that will not be read by the knee-jerk crowd.

Merkaba's posts have had one messsage, and if people would slow down and read they would get it:

Fat and out of shape?  Haven't been to the gym in years?  Grab a jump-rope.  Put down the twinkies.  Lift something.  For fucks sake do ANYTHING, and you will get positive results.  Following a program and getting good results does NOT mean that the training you are following is efficient, safe, or even good.  It just means that your body is reacting favorably to new stimulus.

He is not saying P90x is worthless.  He is saying that it is an overpriced program and that the average individual could put together a better (and cheaper) program with an excel spreadsheet and google.

Out here offshore we have TONS of guys who lift and exercise.  Many of them do P90x.  Most of the guys who have done the P90x have dropped it in favor of more conventional resistance training and dieting with better results.  That said, the guys who do the P90x are in MUCH better shape than the guys who do nothing but sit on their asses.  It's all relative.


----------



## Merkaba (Feb 18, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> Absolutely phenomenal post that will not be read by the knee-jerk crowd.
> 
> Merkaba's posts have had one messsage, and if people would slow down and read they would get it:
> 
> ...



Thanks.  And as someone else alluded to. What happens when you stop?  How many people are gonna do p90x 3, 4 times a week for the next 5 years?  Everyone thinks that weight is controlled by working out. And getting ripped is about working out and catchy phrases like Ab ripper with the much overhyped direct ab see how many ways I can de-stabilize my vertebrae workouts.   Yea I would rather someone do P90x as opposed to doing nothing.  But I would rather you go walking and save your milk jugs and fill them up with water and workout with them.  Learn the fundamentals of form and basic anatomy before you go taking it for granted.  And you don't have to be a gym rat or meat head.  Yes, its 2010, its called Google and Youtube and facebook and anything else freaking google has their hands in.


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## PushAndPull (Feb 18, 2010)

Merkaba said:


> Thanks.  And as someone else alluded to. What happens when you stop?  How many people are gonna do p90x 3, 4 times a week for the next 5 years?  Everyone thinks that weight is controlled by working out. And getting ripped is about working out and catchy phrases like Ab ripper with the much overhyped direct ab see how many ways I can de-stabilize my vertebrae workouts.   Yea I would rather someone do P90x as opposed to doing nothing.  But I would rather you go walking and save your milk jugs and fill them up with water and workout with them.  Learn the fundamentals of form and basic anatomy before you go taking it for granted.  And you don't have to be a gym rat or meat head.  Yes, its 2010, its called Google and Youtube and facebook and anything else freaking google has their hands in.



WTF? Are you saying Hip Hop Abs is not going to get me abs?


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## Merkaba (Feb 18, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> WTF? Are you saying Hip Hop Abs is not going to get me abs?



10 pack minimum guaranteed!


----------



## PushAndPull (Feb 18, 2010)

Merkaba said:


> 10 pack minimum guaranteed!



See I knew it was worth the money


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## viet_jon (Jun 23, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> *
> He is not saying P90x is worthless.  He is saying that it is an overpriced program and that the average individual could put together a better (and cheaper) program with an excel spreadsheet and google.*



I think all the randoms that signed up here realize that (atleast I think).

what you and everyone else knocking p90x don't realize is that not everyone has the time/dedication/motivation/desire to learn how to train at *the utmost efficiency*. People are mostly 'not that into it' and are not dedicated like the regulars here and are not passionate enough to learn the core ideas of training. They would rather just spend $100 bux, pop in a DVD, and call it a workout. As long as it works, not everyone needs to know why it works.

I think what the regulars on here are frustrated (?) about is the innate inclusion of this program with all the other BS infomercials that scam people daily. TBH, I spent a good couple years learning all the training ideas on this forum, and I think p90x encompasses many of these ideas. Not all the core ideas are there, and it definitely does not impose anything groundbreaking, but what's presented should and would get a regular coach potato off their feet.

I'm not taking sides here, I just think both parties of this discussion should be a little more open minded (and less confrontational).


I just glanced through all the videos today, and probably going to incorporate some of the cardio and yoga etc into my off days. I'm bored of lifting heavy weights, just need something a little different.


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## viet_jon (Jun 23, 2010)

oh, that and the fact that complete gym newbs that come on here and strut like they know their stuff.


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## visionbat (Sep 3, 2010)

*p90x the real deal*

Until you or anyone else gets the program and follows it you don't have anything worth saying. How can a person put down a program not to mention the people on the videos without having done it? None of those people are actors. The people on the videos are not athletes either. They have all gone through the program themselves. Ab ripper may sound like every other thing out there but it is not a walk in the park. The workout is super intense. All the workouts in P90X will make you work for it. As Tony says" This ain't some silly little class from the 70's. Everyone can have an opinion but don't trash P90x until you have gone through it. It will never quit working for you unless you quit. Nuff said


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## bigsalad22 (Sep 3, 2010)

JailHouse said:


> Why would you waste your money on that bs. You have found ironmagforums.com, now search, read, and learn. There is a million times more info on this site than you could ever fit in a p90x video.


 
couldnt have said it better myself. 
your on a bodybuilding website. i'm sure there's a p90x chat room somewhere if you really want to discuss this with someone...


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## Built (Sep 3, 2010)

visionbat said:


> Until you or anyone else gets the program and follows it you don't have anything worth saying. How can a person put down a program not to mention the people on the videos without having done it? None of those people are actors. The people on the videos are not athletes either. They have all gone through the program themselves. Ab ripper may sound like every other thing out there but it is not a walk in the park. The workout is super intense. All the workouts in P90X will make you work for it. As Tony says" This ain't some silly little class from the 70's. Everyone can have an opinion but don't trash P90x until you have gone through it. It will never quit working for you unless you quit. Nuff said



Every guy I know who did p90x lost strength and mass in the quest for abs. 

My abs are still better then theirs. 

Nuff said.


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## PushAndPull (Sep 3, 2010)

visionbat said:


> Until you or anyone else gets the program and follows it you don't have anything worth saying. How can a person put down a program not to mention the people on the videos without having done it? None of those people are actors. The people on the videos are not athletes either. They have all gone through the program themselves. Ab ripper may sound like every other thing out there but it is not a walk in the park. The workout is super intense. All the workouts in P90X will make you work for it. As Tony says" This ain't some silly little class from the 70's. Everyone can have an opinion but don't trash P90x until you have gone through it. It will never quit working for you unless you quit. Nuff said



Of course another person whose only post is to support P90x. 
This thread just breeds spam.


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## Phineas (Sep 3, 2010)

Merkaba said:


> Welcome back "Special" K. And by Special I mean the slow kind of special.  Me big and bad, me wanna fight, me make fire, me don't like, me fight you. Kimora angry! Kimora smash!  You do know that Anger is Fear announced! What are you afraid of? Oh I know, of being wrong, and folks here are proving you wrong, so your fear gets perverted into anger.  Simple, from a simpleton.
> 
> How much I.Q. does it take to spout the nonsense that you repeat?   I knew you couldn't resist!  Humans are programmable, much like Pavlovs response. You're like a robot.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry to resurrect this old post, but I had to say this could quite possibly be the greatest post I've seen on this board.

I already repped Merkaba in this thread, so can someone else do it for me please? 

Hahaha, I love the whole Jesus Christ coming to suggest P90X. I bet Jesus is ripped, and gets all the pussy in heaven. Yeah, heaven pussy. 

Then, with his P90X explosiveness, he super squats himself all the way to Taliban heaven and scores some of their promised virgins. Yeah, Jesus is totally the man.


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## Marat (Sep 3, 2010)

Merkaba said:


> And as someone else alluded to. What happens when you stop?  How many people are gonna do p90x 3, 4 times a week for the next 5 years?  Everyone thinks that weight is controlled by working out [...] I would rather someone do P90x as opposed to doing nothing.



I think this is a very important point that is lost on individuals who do not have sufficient experience to judge the lasting effectiveness of a diet and training regimen. Those inexperienced individuals see results, whether in friends or themselves, that ultimately are very ephemeral. Unfortunately, those individuals are not able to foresee or react to the effects of stopping the program upon its completion. Simply put, one can not participate in the level of activity expected of the program, especially while in a caloric deficit, for months and months and months at a time. 

Those who use p90x as a primary form of training are ignorant towards what constitutes an effective training modality. I've been ignorant too. Fortunately, forums like this one exist to help educate those who want to be helped. There are plenty of deconditioned and uninformed people who come to forums like this one and ultimately get in excellent shape and become very knowledgeable on producing predictable results with repeatable programs that can be applied to a wide variety of individuals. 

If you look through these p90x threads, there's always a typical pattern of posters. A person comes in and asks about the program, the forum members recommend against doing it, the person usually ignores the advice of the forum members and is never heard from again -- I've never seen them come back after 3 months to prove the forum members wrong...perhaps they are too busy enjoying their newfound leanness. Or, the individual sticks around and actually gets lean and strong.

Either way, you'll always get people who stop by to call the forum members brash idiots because they've seen 'results' for a few weeks. They'll put in a few posts full of strawman attacks and never end up actually giving a good argument. They ultimately just end up going away.


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## PushAndPull (Sep 3, 2010)

m11 said:


> I think this is a very important point that is lost on individuals who do not have sufficient experience to judge the lasting effectiveness of a diet and training regimen. Those inexperienced individuals see results, whether in friends or themselves, that ultimately are very ephemeral. Unfortunately, those individuals are not able to foresee or react to the effects of stopping the program upon its completion. Simply put, one can not participate in the level of activity expected of the program, especially while in a caloric deficit, for months and months and months at a time.
> 
> Those who use p90x as a primary form of training are ignorant towards what constitutes an effective training modality. I've been ignorant too. Fortunately, forums like this one exist to help educate those who want to be helped. There are plenty of deconditioned and uninformed people who come to forums like this one and ultimately get in excellent shape and become very knowledgeable on producing predictable results with repeatable programs that can be applied to a wide variety of individuals.
> 
> ...



Nice post.


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## Phineas (Sep 3, 2010)

m11 said:


> I think this is a very important point that is lost on individuals who do not have sufficient experience to judge the lasting effectiveness of a diet and training regimen. Those inexperienced individuals see results, whether in friends or themselves, that ultimately are very ephemeral. Unfortunately, those individuals are not able to foresee or react to the effects of stopping the program upon its completion. Simply put, one can not participate in the level of activity expected of the program, especially while in a caloric deficit, for months and months and months at a time.
> 
> Those who use p90x as a primary form of training are ignorant towards what constitutes an effective training modality. I've been ignorant too. Fortunately, forums like this one exist to help educate those who want to be helped. There are plenty of deconditioned and uninformed people who come to forums like this one and ultimately get in excellent shape and become very knowledgeable on producing predictable results with repeatable programs that can be applied to a wide variety of individuals.
> 
> ...


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## archanasheth (Sep 17, 2010)

My boyfriend and I just started the P90X program this week. It is strict, and you definitely want to do some major meal planning befroe you start. If anyone is interested in our Type A personality spreadsheet where we plan everything and get the ratio breakdowns, let me know. I definitely feel like I am getting a good workout. And the concept behind it is muscle confusion...you're targeting a different muscles group each day. Granted I don't really have any more weight to lose, as I'm already 110 pounds, but we chose this program to take our fitness to the next level, really challenge ourselves.


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## TooOld (Sep 17, 2010)

archanasheth said:


> we chose this program to take our fitness to the next level.



What was your prior level, the couch?

I started lifting weights at 18, weights no machines, no fucking gimmick programs, just weights and am still at it. I guess I'm stuck on level one what a loser I am.


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## readyformore (Sep 17, 2010)

Man I bet arnold schwarzenegger was using p90x!!!!!!!!! He used to be ripped! 
I also think that Jay cutler and ronnie coleman use it right now! That's just the only explanation for them being so big and cut.. They took it to the next level with p90X!!!!!!!!! lmao


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## readyformore (Sep 17, 2010)

Built said:


> Every guy I know who did p90x lost strength and mass in the quest for abs.
> 
> My abs are still better then theirs.
> 
> Nuff said.



x2... 
Just read built's articles... Her programs will annihilate p90x results


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## Hombre (Sep 17, 2010)

Break out the torchs, I know someone will burn me but here it goes. Last year I was 255lbs, 6',BF around 30%, and had to squeeze my fat ass into a size 40 pants to go to my wifes grandfathers funeral. For the last 14yrs after school I avg. 60-90hrs a week. I was always tired and working out of a service truck everything was on the fly at all the fast food joints. 
Long story short, I played baseball, football, and wrestled all the way through highschool. The one thing that P90X did give me was that there still hope. If all these other people could get off their ass I could too. I am 34y/o went from 255 to 195 in 90 days. Went from a size 40 to a 34 pants and a 19inch neck to 17 1/2. I'm not saying its for any bodybuilder but I am saying it is great for somebody looking for hope.
I stopped doing P90X last year in Sept. and kept my diet pretty good. All that being said my freind got me into the gym in April this year. After loosing all that mass and not doing anything for around 7 months I was pretty weak. Day 1 in the gym bench 1rmax 175, 2 weeks ago I hit 315 on bench. My starting weight was 205 and right now I'm 220 at 14% BF.

All in all I would say that P90X was worth every damn penny because it gave me enough Hope that if those people could get back into shape that I could too. I will say that it woke me up and got me into doing alot more research and here I am today. When you go from being borderline obeast to losing over half of your bodyfat it will humble you. Ya'll can break out the marshmellows and start the flame.

Hombre


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## alan84 (Sep 18, 2010)

Shouldn't even post ur photos man, because if these are the results with the p90x shit then u just wasted three months of training bro. U could have got the same results with going on a deficit calories take in


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## Built (Sep 18, 2010)

Holy crap you lost 60 lbs in three months. Now, there's no way to lose this much fat in three months - 60 lbs of fat is 60 X 3500 = 2300 calories per day x 90 days. 

In other words, you would have to sustain a deficit of over 2300 calories a day for 90 days and somehow, without a boatload of gear, manage to not drop any muscle. You lost muscle during those 90 days, no way around that one. Muscle doesn't store that many calories - my nearest estimation for the calories stored in a pound of muscle is about 500-600 calories, based on a pound of raw sirloin. Create a deficit of 3500 calories and lose one pound of fat, or about 6 lbs of muscle. You see my point. 

That being said, by your estimation, you started with about 180 lbs of lean mass (when you were 255 lbs in the summer of 2009), and now, 16 months later, you carry 190 lbs of lean mass. 

This is good - you're leaner now than you were, and more muscular. If this is the only way you were able to approach this, good for you. You made it work. 

I could have helped you get more fat off and put more muscle on with less work, given that timeline, but the fact remains that you made it happen and it worked. It didn't have to be that hard, but still, props.


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## Hombre (Sep 18, 2010)

Thanks Built, I was taking in around 1700 to 1900 cal. per day. Hindsight I know now that it didn't have to be that hard but I did not know any better at the time. Right now my diet is around 4200-4700 cal. per day. I am in the gym 5-6 days a week with mostly weights trying to put as much mass on as possible. Again, I'm not saying that the workouts are that great. I'm just saying that their getting people that are ashamed of how they just let themselves go and are intimidated and would not go to the gym looking like a fat ass. I was one of those people with alot of shame. All I can say now is that I don't talk any smack on anybody as long as they are getting it done. The thing about p90x is its pops up on the tv all the time without searching for it. This site and others have all anybody could ever need as far as bb and training. the one thing that this site and all the others don't do is pop up on tvs or computor screens. You actually have to get off your but and search for this stuff. I love this site, it has alot of good and smart people helping out others to getting it done. I'll quit beating this dead horse.


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## Built (Sep 18, 2010)

You bet, you surely did get 'er done. 

Most who lose weight this way gain it all back. You took the essential step of learning other and better ways to train and diet.


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## maxpro2 (Sep 18, 2010)

I saw some idiot doing P90X at the gym. He had his laptop, which was playing the DVD, set up on a flat barbell bench, and about six sets of dumbells surrounding him. 

Needless to say, he looked ridiculous, and everyone in the gym looked at him in a "WTF!!!" manner. So obnoxious.


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## readyformore (Sep 19, 2010)

Built said:


> You bet, you surely did get 'er done.
> 
> Most who lose weight this way gain it all back. You took the essential step of learning other and better ways to train and diet.



How does it work to where you gain it back fast? I'm seriously pigging out and nearly doubled my calorie intake and I'm not gaining any weight


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## Gissurjon (Sep 19, 2010)

rob1980 said:


> Hi, I've been browsing around the internet seeing what other people think of the P90X program, and it's so interesting what the responses are. It seems as if many "super fit" people in general are skeptic about any program purchased off the TV being worth it. On the other hand, I've visited some forums where people were extra negative around 2007 and then the discussion steadily became very positive up til the present. Is this because the ultra fit already have the motivation to do it all themselves?
> 
> Anyway, I just completed P90X last week, and I'm really happy with the results. I was in pretty good shape beforehand, but it really got me to a whole new level of fitness without having to break my brain over what I should be doing. I published my befores and afters and impressions here: . I went from 12.6% body fat to 6.3%, and I got more definition.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out what to do next, though. Any thoughts on where I can start? My goal is to try new things, keep the intensity up, and see further all-around improvements in my body. I could use a little more size, but not much. I like lean muscle definition and staying generally flexible and athletic.


 
Im going to need a little better results for 100+ bucks, 90 days and a strict ass routine and diet. (ref. to pic)


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## Mr.BTB (Sep 19, 2010)

I just seen the name of this and it said P90X, can not be stuffed reading through the whole thread but I can say that P90X does work well, I used it after I dislocated my knee and did not workout for a while, so I used it pretty much for something to do and it really did work great! I think its a great program. I have since moved on and am now doing another sort of program (GVT) but all in all it does work well if you have good nutrition.


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## Built (Sep 19, 2010)

readyformore said:


> How does it work to where you gain it back fast? I'm seriously pigging out and nearly doubled my calorie intake and I'm not gaining any weight



How many calories are you eating now, what do you weigh, how much did you lose, and how long did it take you? Also how long have your calories been this high and how are you training now?


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## readyformore (Sep 19, 2010)

Built said:


> How many calories are you eating now, what do you weigh, how much did you lose, and how long did it take you? Also how long have your calories been this high and how are you training now?



I'm eating about 3.5k+, I weigh 193 pounds as of today, I lost 100 pounds over about a year and a half but lost the first 85 in about 6 months, my calories have been this high for about 3 weeks, my training consists of going about 2 times a week to the gym.


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## Built (Sep 19, 2010)

Well, at 200 lbs your maintenance should be around 3000 a day anyway. Let's see what happens over the next few months.


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## archanasheth (Sep 20, 2010)

Prior to this and joining a gym, I didn't really know how to exercise. I have always been small. Before taking a desk job, i worked retail where I was constantly moving. But in an effort to avoid the corporate spread, I started seriously workng out, not to bulk, as I want to maintain my feminine figure, but just to tone and stay healthy. Moving to a big city gave me access to a gym, where working with a perosnal trainer, I really slimmed down and reached my goal of 110. My boyfriend and I had seen the P90X informercials and talked to a few people who have done it and liked it. So we decided to give it a try. We have really busy schedules, so structuer is important to us. We've completed our first week of P90X and I'm not ready to give it up. It's not for everyone, I agree. But there is not an exercise program out there that is "one size fits all."


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## jmorrison (Sep 20, 2010)

I hate to even post here again, but just an update.  A whole shitload of us on my oil rig started working out together a little over a year ago.  Me and one other guy went with lifting/diet etc, the other 10 or so went with P90x.  

Now don't get me wrong, the guys that stuck with it got good results, but me and the other dude got a lot bigger and a lot leaner with a lot less work.

Now 1.5 years later, most of them have stopped, and several of them lift with me now, and those guys are getting accused of being juiced since they are rapidly getting bigger/stronger than the other P90x fellas.

This just sort of backed up my theory that P90x is worlds better than sitting on your ass, but if you have enough dedication and drive to follow that program, you should have more than enough to do some research and put together a decent program.


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## REDDOG309 (Sep 20, 2010)

P90x is like buying a treadmill for your house. if you use it 4-5 times a week and eat properly you will see results, if you use it to hang your dirty clothes on, then you wasted your money. getting active in any way is going to help. so i think alot of it is what your drive and goals are. plus i think alot of people are intimidated going to the gym. and the more out of shape you are ,the more intimidated you are.


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## MyK (Sep 20, 2010)

I do P95Y its way better....


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## Caligurl9491 (Jan 21, 2011)

jmorrison said:


> I hate to even post here again, but just an update.  A whole shitload of us on my oil rig started working out together a little over a year ago.  Me and one other guy went with lifting/diet etc, the other 10 or so went with P90x.
> 
> Now don't get me wrong, the guys that stuck with it got good results, but me and the other dude got a lot bigger and a lot leaner with a lot less work.
> 
> ...



I came on here to find out what you guys thought of P90X because I watch these transformation videos and get motivated but YIKES, sounds like you guys don't like it!!

How could you not appreciate what it's done for some people? Especially this guy in the video...






YouTube Video












I was just trying to see if it's for women but hmm!


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## Merkaba (Jan 21, 2011)

The female and male female bodies work the same way!  The bottom line is you would be better off changing your longterm goals and slowly learning how to manipulate your workout and diet.  the 90 is a marketing catch.  People like abbreviations and catchy titles and the idea of "fast".  We're a generation of "now" or we want it yesterday.  So "getting ripped in 90 days" is great.  What are you going to do on day 91?  what about day 289?  Are you still going to be pushing yourself in strenuous exercise in an attempt to control your body composition?  hell 90 percent of people don't make it past day 30!  

And body weight squats, lunges, pushups, jumping jacks, can all "get you ripped"...losing fat is mostly a function of dietary intakes...or at least it should be. Using exercise to control your weight is no fun, more taxing to your body, and usually not sustainable.    Get a pull up bar and some dumbbells and you're set.


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## min0 lee (Jan 22, 2011)

Caligurl9491 said:


> How could you not appreciate what it's done for some people? Especially this guy in the video...



I am not in any way saying P90x is good nor bad, but I will say you can't believe those before and after pictures. It's all about marketing and it works.

Ever see how perfect those burgers look on TV, now tell me when have you ever seen one like that in person....their all sloppy...

I remember a few years ago some company was exposed using a bodybuilders after pic on a bulk as a before pic.


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## min0 lee (Jan 22, 2011)

I can go on with these fake before after pics...




> Meet Nicholle, Kathy and Jenny!
> 
> Notice the photos of Nicholle Stevenson, Kathy Thompson and Jenny Conrad? They look quite similar, wouldn't you say? Also notice that they lost 35, 23 and 25 pounds respectively.
> 
> I copied these images (took screen shots, to be exact) from three different websites designed to look like personal blogs of women who are telling the world about their diets and weight loss success.


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## min0 lee (Jan 22, 2011)

Wow....






YouTube Video


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## petesearle (Mar 4, 2011)

*P90x Success*

HI all,

Let me just start by saying..YES p90x does really work! Me and my buddy have been hard at it for about 40 days now and are seeing amazing results. We have also been following the strict nutrition guide. With results come many benefits. For instance, tonight i hooked up with the girl of my dreams! If i can do it YOU CAN TOO!!


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## DiGiTaL (Mar 5, 2011)

petesearle said:


> HI all,
> 
> Let me just start by saying..YES p90x does really work! Me and my buddy have been hard at it for about 40 days now and are seeing amazing results. We have also been following the strict nutrition guide. With results come many benefits. For instance, tonight i hooked up with the girl of my dreams! If i can do it YOU CAN TOO!!



You should get an Oscar for your cock sucking speech.


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## TMag (Mar 6, 2011)

*P90X Success*

P90X works, you can see and feel the success with this system.  The key is to find the right *workout plans* that are comfortable and challenging for you, stick with it, and it will be rewarding.  Building lean muscle mass, burning excess calories and proper nutrition are the most important things you can do to attain a lean physique.


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## taiyed7210 (Mar 7, 2011)

The workout portion of the p90x program are weak.   The other stuff is pretty cool for flexability and stamina.


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## DiGiTaL (Mar 8, 2011)

TMag said:


> P90X works, you can see and feel the success with this system.  The key is to find the right *workout plans* that are comfortable and challenging for you, stick with it, and it will be rewarding.  Building lean muscle mass, burning excess calories and proper nutrition are the most important things you can do to attain a lean physique.



You're post would be perfect if you didn't include you're first sentence.


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## Merkaba (Mar 9, 2011)

min0 lee said:


> I can go on with these fake before after pics...



I'm stealing these


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## Merkaba (Mar 9, 2011)

TMag said:


> P90X works, you can see and feel the success with this system.  The key is to find the right *workout plans* that are comfortable and challenging for you, stick with it, and it will be rewarding.  Building lean muscle mass, burning excess calories and proper nutrition are the most important things you can do to attain a lean physique.



EVERYTHING works!  some are safer and more efficient than others.  

Jumping rope ropes too


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## carter1990 (Mar 9, 2011)

I personally think this program works but as with anything its relative to how well you put the effort in. I appreciate that this program has helped many people to workout again or for the first time. Tony Horton is a guy I like very much but it should be understood that the creator of beachbody is a multimillion dollar company, they are trying to sell products. Now there is absolutely nothing wrong with beachbody and they create great products one of the realizations I have come to irregardless of how much success you create there will always be people challenging and supporting you. I believe if followed the p90x can create dynamic transformation but if you are driven to success you will find a way and the p90x isn't the deciding factor your internal effort is.


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## bit14 (Mar 13, 2011)

haha wow theres a p90x ad on this post


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## Merkaba (Mar 14, 2011)

bit14 said:


> haha wow theres a p90x ad on this post



Most ad services are automated and rotate out common products, and sometimes based on keywords.


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## calaja52 (Mar 15, 2011)

visionbat said:


> Until you or anyone else gets the program and follows it you don't have anything worth saying. How can a person put down a program not to mention the people on the videos without having done it? *None of those people are actors.* The people on the videos are not athletes either. They have all gone through the program themselves. Ab ripper may sound like every other thing out there but it is not a walk in the park. The workout is super intense. All the workouts in P90X will make you work for it. As Tony says" This ain't some silly little class from the 70's. Everyone can have an opinion but don't trash P90x until you have gone through it. It will never quit working for you unless you quit. Nuff said



dont get me wrong, i started out with p90x as well, and it got me into nutrition and really caring about what i put into my body, then i carried that over with me and started lifting weights, however i heard a radio interview with tony horton and he talked about how they mix models in with the real people for the commercials. Now granted it is a fad workout to an extent, but anything that gets people off their ass is better than nothing.


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## TJTJ (Mar 15, 2011)

This kid I knew did that sh*tty Pussy90x before he went to boot camp. He did drop weight but come on man, anything thats being sold at 3am is made for suckers.


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## archanasheth (Mar 16, 2011)

My boyfriend and I are on our second round with P90X. We love it. We follow the meal plan and we work out everyday. the first round I went from 112 to 107 pounds in just the first phase. I put some back on during the holidays (typical of most people) and during my 2 week vacation to India. We are back on track with our second round and I feel good. It's a great workout...you just have use a little self-discipline to keep the momentum up.

And I did not buy it based on a 3-am infomercial. I'm not even awake at 3-am. I had heard about it from my personal trainer at the gym I attend twice a week, and I saw the infomercial for it on a Saturday afternoon. I'm glad we decided to do this.


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## DiGiTaL (Mar 16, 2011)

archanasheth said:


> My boyfriend and I are on our second round with P90X. We love it. We follow the meal plan and we work out everyday. the first round I went from 112 to 107 pounds in just the first phase. I put some back on during the holidays (typical of most people) and during my 2 week vacation to India. We are back on track with our second round and I feel good. It's a great workout...you just have use a little self-discipline to keep the momentum up.
> 
> And I did not buy it based on a 3-am infomercial. I'm not even awake at 3-am. I had heard about it from my personal trainer at the gym I attend twice a week, and I saw the infomercial for it on a Saturday afternoon. I'm glad we decided to do this.




You said you started you are on your first week of P90X in September 2010. Now you reached your 2nd Week?

Please shut your spamming mouth before I make you and your boyfriend gag on my shlong.


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## archanasheth (Mar 18, 2011)

*Clarification*

Perhaps I should clarify, second round means this is our second time doing the program. We already completed it once.


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## Merkaba (Mar 18, 2011)

archanasheth said:


> Perhaps I should clarify, second round means this is our second time doing the program. We already completed it once.



So tell us why you're doing it a second time?  is it something you wouldn't or couldn't do for a long period or time? Was it not sustainable for a long period of time?  What happened to your body in between cycles?


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## DiGiTaL (Mar 20, 2011)

After me bashing about p90 so much on twitter, he still decides to follow me. Asshole!


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## elbkind (Apr 9, 2011)

It works, if you wanna slim down a lil and not worried about bulking


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## Merkaba (Apr 9, 2011)

elbkind said:


> It works, if you wanna slim down a lil and not worried about bulking



You're talking about slimfast combined with Hiking through the wilderness, right?  Because "It works, if you wanna slim down a lil and not worried about bulking"


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## coach5 (Apr 10, 2011)

I did P90X last year for 6 months and was able to lose 58lbs. I went from 269lbs down to 211lbs. My bodyfat went from 36% down to 12.5%. I would have to say the actual key to the program is the diet. It was a great jump start for me to getting back into the gym. I was able to tone up very well with P90X, but the size I wanted in my chest just would not come. I will say though that the AbRipperX is by far one of the hardest ab workouts I've ever done....

My personal opinion is that P90X is great for losing weight, strengthening your joints, gaining flexibility, and improving cardiovascular function  so that your body will be prepared to start a REAL weight-training program.


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## Merkaba (Apr 10, 2011)

coach5 said:


> I did P90X last year for 6 months and was able to lose 58lbs. I went from 269lbs down to 211lbs. My bodyfat went from 36% down to 12.5%. I would have to say the actual key to the program is the diet. It was a great jump start for me to getting back into the gym. I was able to tone up very well with P90X, but the size I wanted in my chest just would not come. I will say though that the AbRipperX is by far one of the hardest ab workouts I've ever done....
> 
> My personal opinion is that P90X is great for losing weight, strengthening your joints, gaining flexibility, and improving cardiovascular function  so that your body will be prepared to start a REAL weight-training program.



You're not going to get size in your chest while cutting calories, dropping weight, and doing 1000 calorie workouts.  You just get what you have left over at the end when it's all said and done.  

Difficulty of a workout has 0 to do with effectiveness towards a particular goal...why is this type of mentality still perpetuated?  Well by programs like p90x and magazines.  I guarantee you I or anyone could make a more difficult ab workout!  All you have to do is just make up a bunch of movements and bunch them together.  That's nonsense, and also has .1 percent to do with actually "ripping" the abs, but you have to give people what they want and what they THINK they want.  I mean Tony is 50 and has abs, and everyone in the vids or after pictures do, so they must know what they are talking about.  Too bad they don't mention a word about balancing out all of that spinal flexion huh?  

Hopefully you'll now move on to more safer and sound work and start mastering the complexes  that make up the strong foundation of all effective gym paradigms.  Squats, deads, presses, and pull work.  

Kudos on the weight loss and for continued work.


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## coach5 (Apr 11, 2011)

Merkaba said:


> You're not going to get size in your chest while cutting calories, dropping weight, and doing 1000 calorie workouts.  You just get what you have left over at the end when it's all said and done.
> 
> Difficulty of a workout has 0 to do with effectiveness towards a particular goal...why is this type of mentality still perpetuated?  Well by programs like p90x and magazines.  I guarantee you I or anyone could make a more difficult ab workout!  All you have to do is just make up a bunch of movements and bunch them together.  That's nonsense, and also has .1 percent to do with actually "ripping" the abs, but you have to give people what they want and what they THINK they want.  I mean Tony is 50 and has abs, and everyone in the vids or after pictures do, so they must know what they are talking about.  Too bad they don't mention a word about balancing out all of that spinal flexion huh?
> 
> ...



Oh I've definitely moved on....today is my push day...chest/shoulders/tri's.... but every now and then on my "target day" which is on Saturdays, I'll do the chest and back video from P90X just to help build a little more definition, but most Saturdays are spent targeting my weakest areas which are my upper inner chest and my lower outer chest. As for the ab video....my reasoning for saying it is one of the hardest is because of the emphasis it puts on the lower abs. My favorite ab exercise now though by far is hanging leg lifts.....I can really feel and see the difference after doing those....they just seem to tighten all of the rectus abdominis.


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## Marat (Apr 11, 2011)

An increase in definition is a result of a decrease in bodyfat. Fat loss is most effectively modified by diet. The exercises themselves do not "cut up" or "tighten" or "tone" any muscle tissue. 

In order to enhance your muscular definition, you would be best served to reevaluate your diet and drop some (more) body fat.

Following the numbers that your provided, you've lost about 70 pounds of body fat while simulataneously gaining about 13 pounds of lean body mass. That's either miraculous newbie gains or your stats are a bit inaccurate (probably because of bioimpedence bodyfat measuring, yes?). 

Either way, good job with the fat loss.


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## coach5 (Apr 11, 2011)

Marat said:


> An increase in definition is a result of a decrease in bodyfat. Fat loss is most effectively modified by diet. The exercises themselves do not "cut up" or "tighten" or "tone" any muscle tissue.
> 
> In order to enhance your muscular definition, you would be best served to reevaluate your diet and drop some (more) body fat.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the compliment....

As for my measurements...the initial BF% was done with an online calculator so it may be a little high or low, but the final BF% measurements were done with calipers. 

I know it seems drastic, but the changes I made in my diet and exercise was drastic too. When I started I looked 8 months pregnant and by the time I finished, 4 of my 6 upper abs were showing. Now this didn't happen in 90 days....it took 7 months of hard work and a clean diet. I lost about 2-3lbs per week almost every week except for the first 2-3 weeks where I lost about 5lbs per week. I did hit a plateau, but when I did I just tweaked my diet a little and added some more HIIT. 

Here is an attached picture of me from what I looked like @ Day 1 of P90X and after 120 days of P90X. I had be eating clean and walking about 3.5 miles every other day and already lost about 26lbs when I started P90X.


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## Marat (Apr 11, 2011)

Putting in as much effort as you have will beget positive results in nearly any training program. The heavier one is to begin with, the less likely they are to catabolize muscle mass. 

Losing as much as you did is a substantial accomplishment. If you haven't lost a large amount of fat before, you may come to notice that keeping the weight off can fall somewhere between an easy thing to manage  and extremely difficult. 

Glad you moved on from P90x. That's probably the best step you could have made in terms of losing a bit more fat (if you are interested in doing so) and ultimately keeping it off. As probably covered somewhere in the older posts, P90x is a pretty awful program for setting a foundation that can sustain long term maintenance.


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## bit14 (Apr 13, 2011)

i did p90x for like 6 weeks then quit and got a gym membership and got way better results the good thing about p90x is the nutrition plan


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## Shooters (Apr 16, 2011)

I respect the success Horton has experienced with this product, still not a believer of the hype.


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## Merkaba (Apr 16, 2011)

Shooters said:


> I respect the success Horton has experienced with this product, still not a believer of the hype.



I respect his and his ilk's success only as a fellow marketer/business man.  The more I think about it, the more I want to get investors and do my own DVD.  I don't respect the crap reasoning and pseudo truths about training that these types of things perpetuate.  

Now, i tell people to buy it.  Buy it all.  And don't go torrent it or borrow it, because you're automatically solidifying the idea that it's not worth the money!  So buy it.  If it's so great, then wouldn't you pay double for it?  So buy it.


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## Mooksman (Apr 16, 2011)

p90x is a great program for an out of shape person looking to get into decent shape.  I ran 2 rounds of it and it helped me tremendously.  As far as using that program to become a bodybuilder...no.  But if you are coming off a long layoff like I was its a great tool.  I paid ful price for it and dont regret it at all.  Its obviously not for everyone but thats common sense.


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## Merkaba (Apr 16, 2011)

Mooksman said:


> ....p90x is a great program for an out of shape person looking to get into decent shape....



so is learning squats, presses and rows, or variations there of, with walking or jogging.  Or jump rope and jumping jacks.    And much safer while being truly universal.


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## x~factor (Apr 16, 2011)

12.5% BF? Would you say that's pretty accurate?


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## Built (Apr 16, 2011)

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Merkaba again."



Merkaba said:


> so is learning squats, presses and rows, or variations there of, with walking or jogging.  Or jump rope and jumping jacks.    And much safer while being truly universal.



Exactly.


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## coach5 (Apr 17, 2011)

x~factor said:


> 12.5% BF? Would you say that's pretty accurate?



It was caliper measured...so I'd say it's accurate...unless my doctor doesn't know what she's doing. She was the one who changed my diet due to blood sugar problems and abnormal weight gain. 

Now that I'm eating 5-6 times a day instead of 2-3 my sugar levels are stable and within range. Not to mention no more weight gain either.


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## Built (Apr 17, 2011)

I'd say closer to 15-16%. I have yet to meet a doctor who truly knows how to do caliper estimates; even people who do, well, the method is prone to error. The only guy I ever knew who was able to do this properly is a trainer from South Africa I had caliper me the day I went in to get DEXA tested for my profile pic. I asked him if he'd like to calibrate himself against a DEXA, so he clipped me at 14%. DEXA scanned me at 14% - and he was so full of himself after that it would have been unbearable except for the fact that he's totally hot and has a sexy accent. Seriously, dude could read me the phone book and I wouldn't care. 

Your blood sugar improved because you cleaned up your diet increased your traininng and dropped bodyfat. I guarantee you that it isn't the meal frequency - the research shows the converse is true, notably for type II diabetics. Incretin Secretion in Relation to Meal Size and Body Weight in Healthy Subjects and People with Type 1 and Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus -- Vilsbøll et al. 88 (6): 2706 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism
"Increased fasting concentrations of GIP and an early enhanced postprandial GIP response were seen in obese, compared with lean healthy subjects, whereas GLP-1 responses were the same in the two groups. ??-cell sensitivity to glucose, evaluated as the slope of insulin secretion rates vs. plasma glucose concentration, tended to increase in both type 2 diabetic patients (29%, P = 0.19) and obese healthy subjects (22% P = 0.04) during the large meal, compared with the small meal, perhaps reflecting the increased incretin response. We conclude: 1) that a decreased GLP-1 secretion may contribute to impaired insulin secretion in type 2 diabetes mellitus, whereas GIP and GLP-1 secretion is normal in type 1 diabetic patients; and 2) that it is possible to modulate the ??-cell sensitivity to glucose in obese healthy subjects, and possibly also in type 2 diabetic patients, by giving them a large meal, compared with a small meal."

There is actually a great deal of research on this; investigate the search terms incretin, intermittent fasting and meal size for more.


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## Merkaba (Apr 17, 2011)

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Built again."


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## sadeler (Apr 17, 2011)

*It worked for me*

I did P90X back to back. I lost 115lbs. After that I started working out in the gym. Trained solid for 11 1/2 years and finally made it to the stage on April 2, 2011. Competed at the Northern Colorado Bodybuilding Championships at the age of 50. I took 2nd in the Masters 50+. Not bad for a once 287lb couch potato. Bottom line if it wasn't for P90X, love it or hate it I don't care, I would not have had the impetus to get where I am now. Is it the greatest thing since sliced bread....no. But it is was a great way to start my journey.


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## Built (Apr 17, 2011)

Well that's fantastic.  

I'm very happy you were able to achieve your goals. 

I take it you no longer use the product -  I know surely could not have done anything so grueling when I was fat. Too lazy. 

Got any pix? A before and after would be awesome!


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## sadeler (Apr 18, 2011)

*Worked for me.*

Unfortunately didn't take before pics, was never compfortable taking my shirt off when that heavy. All my before pix are clothed. I still use parts of the product Yoga X, Stretch X, Ab Ripper X, during full recovery weeks as I am in now where I have to force myself to stay out of the gym for a week to fully recover from my 14 week onslaught heading into the contest. I typicall take a full 7-9 day recovery week every 12-14 weeks. At 50 years old you don't recover as quickly as your counterparts in their 20's and 30's. I will post pix though so you can see where I started to where I am. It still amazes me.


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## nova1970sb (Apr 18, 2011)

my roomie did p90x 3 times this year and he still looks like a week suck, his diet is not perfect, but better than mine. and all i do is weight training.


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## Built (Apr 19, 2011)

sadeler said:


> Unfortunately didn't take before pics, was never compfortable taking my shirt off when that heavy. All my before pix are clothed. I still use parts of the product Yoga X, Stretch X, Ab Ripper X, during full recovery weeks as I am in now where I have to force myself to stay out of the gym for a week to fully recover from my 14 week onslaught heading into the contest. I typicall take a full 7-9 day recovery week every 12-14 weeks. At 50 years old you don't recover as quickly as your counterparts in their 20's and 30's. I will post pix though so you can see where I started to where I am. It still amazes me.




I sadly never took good before pix either - and trust me, pushing 50 myself, I hear you on the recovery front. 

I too am amazed at what I've been able to do with my body.


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## scarh (Sep 15, 2011)

Built said:


> I sadly never took good before pix either - and trust me, pushing 50 myself, I hear you on the recovery front.
> 
> I too am amazed at what I've been able to do with my body.



^ sorry but you're a fool. I've done p90x twice and I have gotten great results. 

I guarantee you p90x will work for anyone. you know why? you chose what you want to lift. If you are in great shape now, do p90x, if you're curling 100 lbs at the gym, curl 100 lbs in p90x, you would get ripper than ever. 

3 days ago i started doing it again, why have i not continued from when i finished it twice? i got kicked out of my house, had to move alot, and honestly i was satisfied with the way i looked, then i broke my hand, and didnt work out for like 5 months, i wish i hadnt broke my hand otherwise I'd have a fuckign 8 pack and be the most ripped ever.  a couple days ago i finally could do pushup without my wrist fucking up on me. 

so, i will post after picture in 86 days. 

if you want to see my before and after picture of my past results i will be happy to show you. i did the p90x doubles twice. At the end of the second p90x i couldnt do it everyday like i wanted to because i had troubles at home. and my diet was shitty because i had to eat anything that I could eat, but this time around im going to try and stick to the diet more. But sadly i would have to start the strict diet in a week when i get paid. Because i have no money to buy protein healthy shit.


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## scarh (Sep 15, 2011)

here is the before p90x, after round 1 and after round 2.


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## scarh (Sep 15, 2011)

also i got the p90x for free, so don't give me shit about wasting money.


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## Gazhole (Sep 15, 2011)

scarh said:


> ^ sorry but you're a fool. I've done p90x twice and I have gotten great results.
> 
> I guarantee you p90x will work for anyone. you know why? you chose what you want to lift. If you are in great shape now, do p90x, if you're curling 100 lbs at the gym, curl 100 lbs in p90x, you would get ripper than ever.



Built? A fool? Can tell you're new around here.

I guarantee diet and exercise will work for anyone. You know why? Because they have done for fucking decades. P90x is the same old crap repackaged and shovelled out to people who have more money than sense, or in your case more bandwidth than sense if you didn't pay for it.

I don't want to get "ripper than ever". I want people to stop relying on overhyped, overpriced, overrated, dangerous crap. There are cheaper, safer, and more effective methods out there.

Congratulations on the fat loss, though.


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## alan84 (Sep 15, 2011)

Gazhole said:


> Built? A fool? Can tell you're new around here.
> 
> I guarantee diet and exercise will work for anyone. You know why? Because they have done for fucking decades. P90x is the same old crap repackaged and shovelled out to people who have more money than sense, or in your case more bandwidth than sense if you didn't pay for it.
> 
> ...



Amen


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## SurfsideRyan (Sep 15, 2011)

scarh said:


> ^ sorry but you're a fool. I've done p90x twice and I have gotten great results.
> 
> I guarantee you p90x will work for anyone. you know why? you chose what y
> 
> ...



To call Built a fool, is just foolish in itself.
You must be new

Glad you have some good results from your workouts though.

Edit: seems gaz beat me to it


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## KelJu (Sep 15, 2011)

scarh said:


> ^ sorry but you're a fool. I've done p90x twice and I have gotten great results.
> 
> I guarantee you p90x will work for anyone. you know why? you chose what you want to lift. If you are in great shape now, do p90x, if you're curling 100 lbs at the gym, curl 100 lbs in p90x, you would get ripper than ever.
> 
> ...





These P90 fags really crack me up! Oh yeah, Built, yeah you don't know what your talking about! I'm going to be laughing at that for days.


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## Merkaba (Sep 15, 2011)

...


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## jtterrible (Sep 15, 2011)

Idk about the whole package... but when I torrented it my fiance loves the yoga and ab work out... she forced me through the ab ripper x stuff one time.. I was dying half way through.. and I still did it.. the next morning my core was so sore I couldn't get out of bed.. standing was painful as hell.. it was like leg day but in my mid section.. lol.. looks like everyone covered it already.. intense workouts + proper diet = results.. form follows function..


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## scarh (Sep 16, 2011)

sorry but you guys are just fools, try it for yourself. dont give me fucking bullshit 

complete 90 days yourself then fucking talk.


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## scarh (Sep 16, 2011)

kelju you're a faggot 

you're a has been huh? you dont go to gym as often as before huh? 2007 show me 2011. 
post your picture right now faggot? i bet your fat huh ? with your pet kitty fucking faggot


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## Gazhole (Sep 16, 2011)

scarh said:


> sorry but you guys are just fools, try it for yourself. dont give me fucking bullshit
> 
> complete 90 days yourself then fucking talk.



Sorry, unlike your goal of getting ripper than ever i actually have competitions to train for so won't be wanking around curling 100lbs or doing crunches when there are 500lb deadlifts to be lifted, or tires to be flipped.

By all means keep doing P90x if you get results off it but always be mindful of the things that you're being prescribed to do in your exercise and watch out for injuries. They are rife in the style of training Horton and his ilk endorse.

Also, can the insults if you want to make it to ten posts without being banned. Nobody here has shit talked you unless provoked. Your first post referred to a valuable member (and a mod) as a fool. Not really a particularly good first impression.

You are nowhere near as knowledgeable as Built or Kelju, and i guarantee both can out lift you. They're more than capable of sticking up for themselves but as a mod here myself - lets discuss this as adults, or gtfo.

So - what are your actual reasons for liking/choosing/training with P90x? I've yet to hear any sort of reasoning from you. Did you put any thought into your decision?


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## KelJu (Sep 16, 2011)

scarh said:


> kelju you're a faggot
> 
> you're a has been huh? you dont go to gym as often as before huh? 2007 show me 2011.
> post your picture right now faggot? i bet your fat huh ? with your pet kitty fucking faggot



You need jerking material that bad you homo? Just come out and ask, I'll gladly PM you a picture of my cock and balls for you to fantasize about. Send me a reminder, and I'll get that taken care of for you when I get home. 

Fitness newbs are so funny.


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## KelJu (Sep 16, 2011)

KelJu said:


> You need jerking material that bad you homo? Just come out and ask, I'll gladly PM you a picture of my cock and balls for you to fantasize about. Send me a reminder, and I'll get that taken care of for you when I get home.
> 
> Fitness newbs are so funny.



I've been posting in anything goes too much. This really doesn't belong in the serious training forums, and I do apologize.


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## Merkaba (Sep 16, 2011)




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## Merkaba (Sep 16, 2011)

scarh said:


> sorry but you guys are just fools, try it for yourself. dont give me fucking bullshit
> 
> complete 90 days yourself then fucking talk.


Noone wants to look like you.  So, no thanks.
And we all know what the program does we don't have to try it, smart guy! Know why? Because some of us know that there are way better ways to "Get ripped" or lose fat.    We would rather hold on to lean body mass while burning fat, if needbe, not stressing fat and water and muscle off of our bodies by way of exercise.  You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and will do nothing but spout industry standard generalities and get yourself angrier by continuing down this path you've CHOSEN to tread.  This forum is not like alot of others.  We're not a bunch of meat heads talking a bunch of tough guy bullshit.  Some of us actually know what we're talking about.  What you're talking about is a circuit training DVD. There are literally hundreds of them and they all "work", genius! You just got suckered into one of the more popular ones.  Why not of the ones that Richard Simmons sells?  I guarantee you if you did it and ate right you'd lose just as much weight.  'kout of here!


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## Built (Sep 24, 2011)

Gaz, SurfsideRyan, KelJu and others - thank you. ♥

scarh, learn some manners. You did indeed rip up. If this was your goal, you achieved it: you're tight and small now. Most of us here prefer some size with our shred, but not all. P90X will make you tight and hard if you work the program. It'll also ensure you stay small, which might also be important to you. The downside is that it might overtrain and injure you. Some might find it overstimulates appetite and end up getting fatter (probably more of a concern for women - intense exercise is know to do this to many women). 

Best of luck with your physique goals. I suggest you set some goals for social etiquette as well.


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## PushAndPull (Sep 24, 2011)

Should make this thread a sticky


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