# Deadlift - grip question



## r00kie (May 24, 2010)

Started working out after a long gap. Currently deadlifting 2x per week. I pulled 245 lbs for 6 reps in my last workout, but today my grip gave up after just 3 reps for the same weight! 

1. am I overtraining my forearms?
2. should I switch to mixed grip? (have been using double overhand grip)
3. or should I use hooks? 
4. is there any specific training for grip strength?


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## AKIRA (May 24, 2010)

Use a mixed grip (staggered grip) and switch it between sets.  If the left one is overhand on set 1, then make it underhand on set 2.  Still too much?  Get Versa Straps.  Still too much?  Lower the weight idiot.


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## davegmb (May 24, 2010)

Why dont you message gazhole, think he is big into his grip strength training.


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## Flathead (May 24, 2010)

It looks like you need to do some targeted forearm workouts, but not too much beings you dead twice a week.

You might want to consider throwing in Squats & deadlift only once a week?


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## PushAndPull (May 24, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> Use a mixed grip (staggered grip) and switch it between sets.  If the left one is overhand on set 1, then make it underhand on set 2.  Still too much?  Get Versa Straps.  Still too much?  Lower the weight idiot.



Completely agree.


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## suprfast (May 24, 2010)

I always use a left hand underside and right hand over.  I never switch and am not worried about gaining more size on one side than the other.  I masterbate with the other hand to compensate(the last statement may or may not be true, but the first statement is)


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## MDR (May 24, 2010)

Be patient.  Grip strength will come.  By the way, there is a great way to develop grip strength.  Deadlifting.  Once a week sounds like a good suggestion to me too.


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## r00kie (May 24, 2010)

Thanks everyone.

Nobody brought this up - but chalk is not allowed in my gym anyway.


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## suprfast (May 24, 2010)

r00kie said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> Nobody brought this up - but chalk is not allowed in my gym anyway.



I feel you there.  I refuse to use gloves, i just carry a towel and make sure i dry my hands and the bar to the max after each use.  I have zero issues with grip but I have bear claws.


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## Phineas (May 24, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> Use a mixed grip (staggered grip) and switch it between sets.  If the left one is overhand on set 1, then make it underhand on set 2.  Still too much?  Get Versa Straps.  Still too much?  Lower the weight idiot.



So, with alternate grip you should switch between which hand is supinated and pronated? I've been using alternate grip on my deads for a few months now and always have left hand pronated and right supinated. Can this cause problems down the road?


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## suprfast (May 24, 2010)

Phineas said:


> So, with alternate grip you should switch between which hand is supinated and pronated? I've been using alternate grip on my deads for a few months now and always have left hand pronated and right supinated. Can this cause problems down the road?



I think it is a preference thing and possibly something that has to do with building max strength.  I do not like switching.  I hold the bar as if i was going to tug-a-rope.  This is where my max power is felt.  Left hand under hand, right hand over hand.


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## fufu (May 24, 2010)

Be careful when using the mixed grip. You are really loading the anterior muscles/tendons of the humeroulnar joint. Be sure to not flex the elbow or you could be saying hello to a ripped bicep tendon. It's a safe grip, but be aware. 

Another problem that P-Funk used to mention all the time is that people tend to rotate their spine towards the hand that is supinated, that can result in some torsion issues in the spine. 

As for splitting the work load between arms by switching grips every set, I say go for it. Balance is never something to be avoided.

You could also use a hook grip. You grip over your thumb with your other four fingers. It will be uncomfortable at first and will take some getting used to, but it is highly efficient in holding heavy weights in double overhand fashion.

PM Gazhole about training your grip. Grip training is highly underutilized by many people. You can't lift what you can't hold. It is a fundamental aspect of strength that people like to sweep under the rug.


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## davegmb (May 25, 2010)

fufu said:


> Be careful when using the mixed grip. You are really loading the anterior muscles/tendons of the humeroulnar joint. Be sure to not flex the elbow or you could be saying hello to a ripped bicep tendon. It's a safe grip, but be aware.
> 
> Another problem that P-Funk used to mention all the time is that people tend to rotate their spine towards the hand that is supinated, that can result in some torsion issues in the spine.
> 
> ...


 
Which grip do you use then? Ive just recently switched to the mixed over/under hand grip and change which hand round each set. Had to change as my forarms were bursting with the double over hand the heavier i got, the new grip makes it alot easier.


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## Gazhole (May 25, 2010)

Totally agree with what fufu said - great post.

I doubt you're overtraining the forearms, they're incredibly resilient - not unlike the calves - when it comes to training. I can batter my grip 3-5 times a week and so long as you don't try to overreach and strain it recovers pretty quick.

I'm doing a series of articles about grip training soon (have already written two of them, need to record a video now), but if you have any specific questions send me a PM or just post in here.

Grip training is a lot like core training in that it's critical to your performance, yet most people either don't do it at all or just don't do it properly.


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## gtbmed (May 25, 2010)

Farmer's walks, rack pulls, static holds, weighted chins, etc. are all great for improving your grip.

I use a mixed grip on regular deads and I never switch.  I use a double overhand grip on RDLs though.


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## Flathead (May 25, 2010)

Gaz - Based on a 4 day split, where would you reccomend forearm work & what exercises?

1.) Legs

2.) Chest

3.) Legs

4.) Chest


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## fufu (May 25, 2010)

davegmb said:


> Which grip do you use then? Ive just recently switched to the mixed over/under hand grip and change which hand round each set. Had to change as my forarms were bursting with the double over hand the heavier i got, the new grip makes it alot easier.



I use them all depending on the situation. I do DOH as long as I can on any kind of deadlift. Then, I will use a hook or mixed grip after my DOH fails. I am more likely to use a hook grip deadlifting from the floor compared to when I do RDL's because of the prolonged stress on the thumb that occurs when doing a RDL. 

During any Olympic lift or variation of an Olympic lift I always use a hook grip.


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## Gazhole (May 25, 2010)

Flathead said:


> Gaz - Based on a 4 day split, where would you reccomend forearm work & what exercises?
> 
> 1.) Legs
> 
> ...


 
You don't train back? 

You could add an exercise to each training day if you like. Farmer's Walks, Static Holds, Monkey Hangs, and some sort of crushing exercise like hand Grippers or Finger Curls, or some type of pronated wrist curl.


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## Flathead (May 25, 2010)

Gazhole said:


> You don't train back?
> 
> You could add an exercise to each training day if you like. Farmer's Walks, Static Holds, Monkey Hangs, and some sort of crushing exercise like hand Grippers or Finger Curls, or some type of pronated wrist curl.


 

Yes, I do back. I just over simplified my routine to give you an idea of what my split was. What is a pronated wrist curl. Thanks


*Mon. (Wk1)*
Max 
Squat - Work to 1RM & 3*@/above 90% Max
Hamstrings - "Low Intensity" Good Mornings
Low Back - Back Raises
Abs

*Mon. (Wk2)*
Speed 
Squat - 10*2 @50%
Hamstrings - "High Intensity" Good Mornings
Low Back - "Weighted" Back Raises
Farmers Walks - 4* @40lbs
Abs - "Weighted"

*Wed.*
Max 
Flat Bench - Work to 1RM & 3*@/above 90% Max
Triceps - "Low Intensity" Extensions
Shoulders - "Low Intensity" Raises
Lats/Upper Back - "Low Intensity" Rear Raises

*Fri. (Wk1)*
Speed
Deadlift - 10*2 @50%
Hamstrings - "High Intensity" Good Mornings
Low Back - "Weighted" Back Raises
Abs "Weighted"

*Fri. (Wk2)*
Max
Deadlift - Work to 1RM & 3*@/above 90% Max
Hamstrings - "Low Intensity" Good Mornings
Low Back - Back Raises
Abs

*Sat.*
Speed
Flat Bench - 8*3 @55%
Triceps - "High Intensity" 4 Board BB Close Grip Presses
Shoulders - High Intensity" Military Press
Lats/Upper Back - "Low Intensity" - Rows or Pull Throughs


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## Gazhole (May 25, 2010)

Based on the westside template by the looks of it?  nice.

I've just planned out a program using Westside and i integrated a lot of grip work into it. I put one lift on the ME days, and 2 lifts on the DE days.

Pronated wrist curl is just a wrist curl with your palms down so it trains the extensors of the forearm rather than the flexors.

I would definitely contemplate adding some one handed deadlifts in there somewhere. Its nice as Deadlift accessory since its very light, but you have to really concentrate on your grip and balance/control throughout the lift.


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## Flathead (May 25, 2010)

Yes on the Westside template, fufu turned me on to this program not too long ago & I'm diggin it. I'll look to add a forearm exercise on ME days & two on DE.

I'll also look into rotating in the one handed deadlift as an accessory. THX!


Flathead


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## r00kie (May 25, 2010)

fufu said:


> Another problem that P-Funk used to mention all the time is that people tend to rotate their spine towards the hand that is supinated, that can result in some torsion issues in the spine.



Oh that sucks. Is there any way I can make sure that I am not rotating my spine?


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## fufu (May 25, 2010)

r00kie said:


> Oh that sucks. Is there any way I can make sure that I am not rotating my spine?



Having someone watch you is the best method to find out if you are doing it. You could also take a video from a profile angle. 

However, being aware of you spine to keep it neutral could help.


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## r00kie (May 25, 2010)

Thanks fufu. Yes having someone watch is the best way. 

I was wondering - if the bar is parallel to the floor and parallel to the front wall, then can I assume that my spine is not rotated?


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## fufu (May 25, 2010)

r00kie said:


> Thanks fufu. Yes having someone watch is the best way.
> 
> I was wondering - if the bar is parallel to the floor and parallel to the front wall, then can I assume that my spine is not rotated?



Possibly, but the body often compensates when it makes an error. The bar may be parallel to the wall in front of you, but that doesn't mean somewhere in your body you compensated the spinal torsion to make the the bar parallel. 

Anyway, you wouldn't be able to tell that on your own, so you wouldn't be able to use that as a form cue, nor would anyone else because you can't stand lateral to most walls in a profile view.

It is best to have a knowledgeable person watch you dead lift. 

Also - many errors, such as the one we are talking about, are easy enough to correct on your own if you just use a little body awareness during the exercise.


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## Gazhole (May 26, 2010)

Flathead said:


> Yes on the Westside template, fufu turned me on to this program not too long ago & I'm diggin it. I'll look to add a forearm exercise on ME days & two on DE.
> 
> I'll also look into rotating in the one handed deadlift as an accessory. THX!
> 
> ...



No problem dude! I would do 3-4 sets on each exercise, and start off light and add weight each set. Your hands are resilient, but it's easy to overshoot and irritate the connective tissue and tendons at first.


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## r00kie (May 26, 2010)

Ok, I tried mixed grip and now grip is not an issue at all. I did alternate every rep but felt a little awkward with right hand supinated. The other combination felt natural.


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## DiGiTaL (May 26, 2010)

Don't jack off 5 hours prior to your work out. You'll have an a lot better grip.

Trust me. Experience.


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## suprfast (May 27, 2010)

DiGiTaL said:


> Don't jack off 5 hours prior to your work out. You'll have an a lot better grip.
> 
> Trust me. Experience.



I get a better grip when doing it right before working out.


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## bigback51 (May 31, 2010)

If your DL`ing "Traditionally", that is with your feet close together, take a few seconds and OVER GRIP the bar, that is exaggerate over wrapping your hand around the bar. If you sumo DL, OVER GRIPPING is tough to do, because your focus is on dropping down, & Gripp`n, and Ripp`n the weight  of the floor.
So you lose your grip every now and then, no big deal, that`s a sign your busting your fanny in the gym, which is a good thing.


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## ceazur (May 31, 2010)

i use a hook. 1 over 1 under


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## suprfast (May 31, 2010)

Try to do one over and one under without any hooks.  Work on your grip strength.  I've done up to 500lbs with this method(I am weight limited at my house).


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## ceazur (May 31, 2010)

suprfast said:


> Try to do one over and one under without any hooks.  Work on your grip strength.  I've done up to 500lbs with this method(I am weight limited at my house).



Sounds like severe finger cramps.


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## suprfast (May 31, 2010)

ceazur said:


> Sounds like severe finger cramps.



Oh they feel "good" when I am done.  My newest battle is the gym i just joined doesnt allow chalk.  I do not think most commercial gyms allow it though.  I guess I will have to live with a rough grip when I masturbate


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## r00kie (Jun 15, 2010)

Ok. An update from my side. Initially I felt good using mixed grip, weights were up by 30lbs. But today I noticed that whenever I rested the bar on the floor, the bar was displaced 1-2 inches towards the supinated arm!  This happens only with my right hand supinated...other combination is fine.

Damn, I'm not doing mixed grip - doesn't matter if it means lowering the weight


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## AKIRA (Jun 15, 2010)

Ok dont do it and grow unproportionally.


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## Gordo (Jun 15, 2010)

suprfast said:


> Oh they feel "good" when I am done.  My newest battle is the gym i just joined doesnt allow chalk.  I do not think most commercial gyms allow it though.  I guess I will have to live with a rough grip when I masturbate



What about dustless (liquid) chalk? You can get that at any climbing supply store.  The biggest difference is you don't create a dusty mess on the floor and in the air. Just wipe the bar down when you're finished your set. Some gyms give that a pass or they just don't know what it is so they don't make a big deal about it.


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## Gordo (Jun 15, 2010)

r00kie said:


> Ok. An update from my side. Initially I felt good using mixed grip, weights were up by 30lbs. But today I noticed that whenever I rested the bar on the floor, the bar was displaced 1-2 inches towards the supinated arm!  This happens only with my right hand supinated...other combination is fine.
> 
> Damn, I'm not doing mixed grip - doesn't matter if it means lowering the weight


Try a hook grip, it locks you in better


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## Built (Jun 15, 2010)

Hook grip hurts like a mofo. I just use straps for the really heavy lifts. 


What? I'm a girl. I can use straps if I want. <sticks tongue out>



Listen, I get compliments on my back all the time - but I've never had anyone holler from across the street: "DAMN, woman. Those are some killer GRIPS you got there!"

My grip IS pretty good - for a girl, lol - but I won't limit my back development by waiting for my grip to catch up. And I'd prefer to not worry about my form in the middle of a very heavy triple, kwim?

My .02


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## MDR (Jun 15, 2010)

I agree about the hook grip. Painful as hell.  And I'm a boy and I use straps on heavy pulls.  And I think my grip is just fine. You gotta problem with that?(Sticks finger out)  I'll get Built to teach you a lesson.  Like maybe she'll evaluate your diet and point out all the things you're doing wrong.  You think you got problems now...


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## Built (Jun 15, 2010)

Hahahahahaa...


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## MDR (Jun 16, 2010)

Glad you laughed.  If I pissed you off you might not answer MY diet questions!


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