# Who DOES NOT cycle their creatine??



## dontsurfonmytur (Apr 21, 2007)

Now, I have heard so many different thigns about so amny different kinds of creatines. Post is better, pre is better. Cycle, or not cycle. Cycle mono but not cee.

Now here are 2 examples i foudn that say u should cycle, could anyone show me why u should NOT cycle?




Are you cycling your creatine? Find out why you may want to.

Title:

Creatine supplementation in health and disease. Effects of chronic creatine ingestion in vivo: down-regulation of the expression of creatine transporter isoforms in skeletal muscle.

Researchers:

Guerrero-Ontiveros ML, Wallimann T.
Institute for Cell Biology, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, ETH-Honggerberg, Zurich.

Source:

Mol Cell Biochem 1998 Jul;184(1-2):427-37

Summary:

These researchers studied the in vivo effect of dietary creatine as well as 3-GPA (a creatine analog that is a competitive inhibitor of creatine entry) on the expression of the creatine transporter (creatine T). Long term feeding of rats with 3-GPA has been previously shown to decrease creatine levels in skeletal muscles without effecting creatine T expression. In this study, the expression of the creatine T was examined in rats chronically fed either 4% creatine or 2.5% GPA. Dietary creatine administered for 3-6 months, significantly lowered the expression of creatine T polypeptides. The rats fed the creatine analog GPA showed virtually no change (perhaps even a slight increase) in creatine T polypeptide expression.

Discussion:

The wide spread use of creatine among athletes and bodybuilders has raised concerns about possible negative side effects. Of course most of the nay sayers are looking to control its availability with little real concern for the well being of those who use it. This study has answered a question that has rested on the minds of many, which is, "Is there any reason to cycle creatine?" From the study above we see that the abundance and activity of the creatine transporter is negatively effected by long term creatine ingestion. The creatine transporter is down regulated with continued exposure to extracellular creatine.

Human skeletal muscle has an upper limit of creatine that can, or will, be contained within the cell. This limit is around 150-160 mmol/kg of dry muscle. As the intracellular concentration of creatine approaches this level, the synthesis of creatine transporters declines and even stops depending on the amount of creatine ingested over time. In the study above, it was shown that the creatine transporter is regulated by the content of creatine in the cell rather than by the interaction of creatine, or it???s analog 3-GPA, with the transporter.

All the arguments about creatine absorption being a limiting factor in creatine content within the cell are bogus. Creatine does not need to be "micronized" or "effervesent" to lead to an increase in creatine content within your muscles. The activity of the creatine transporter is the limiting factor. Any trick increase in creatine absorption will only hasten creatine transporter down regulation. It only requires about 5 grams per day for 30 days to increase the content of creatine within muscle tissue to the same extent as 30 grams per day for 6 days. The sooner you reach the upper limit the sooner your muscles become unable to take up creatine. It is better to maintain sufficient levels of creatine transporters in order not to cause a rapid decline in creatine content once creatine supplementation is discontinued. Clearly there appears to be good reason to cycle creatine supplementation. 

The authors of this study recommend not using creatine for over 3 months at a time. To truly cycle creatine you will have to take at least 4 weeks off. Creatine levels take at least one month to return to pre-supplement levels. It may be important to take the entire month off because one speculated mechanism of creatine transporter downregulation is that when the intracellular levels (levels inside the muscle cell) are increased the creatine transporters are taken down and not replaced as long as creatine levels remain elevated. Thus it might take as long as a month for creatine transporters to return to normal after chronic creatine supplementation. Keep in mind that no one has actually shown that long-term supplementation with creatine is a bad thing.

Research Update: Cycling Creatine, Steroids and the Heart, Meal Replacement Drinks



Cycling Creatine-

Creatine is one of the most popular sports supplements in the industry today. Why? Because it works. I've read countless articles which suggests creatine's effectiveness and not one which suggests that creatine is detrimental to the human body. However, all of the articles I have read involve the use of 20 grams of creatine utilizing a one month on, X amount of time off system. So the subjects all took 20 grams of creatine in divided doses throughout the day for an entire month and then took some time off. The time varied from study to study but for the sake of receptor attenuation, I would take at least 2 weeks off. If you've ever tried creatine, then you will know how quickly you can make gains when you first introduce it to your system. 

However, these gains began to diminish over time because your body simply got accustomed to the creatine. Now if you would "cycle" creatine, so to speak, then theoretically, you could make gains similar to the ones you made when you initially began creatine intake. There are numerous ways to cycle creatine and I will suggest a few ways which were successful for me in the past.

20 grams for one month straight divided into four 5 gram doses while taking 2 weeks off in between cycles. 
10 grams after working out every day for 6 weeks and then taking 2 weeks off. 
5 grams after working out every day for 8 weeks and then taking 2 weeks off.
Now you may cycle your creatine differently and if this different method works for you, then stick with it until it stops working. Remember that I am merely sharing with you some of my successful cycles with creatine.

Bodybuilding.com - Phano Paul Som - Cycling Supplements!


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## Phred (Apr 21, 2007)

I do not cycle my creatine.


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## forum9351 (Apr 21, 2007)

i do not cycle


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## SnakeEyez (Apr 21, 2007)

I just started taking Creatine (cell mass) and it says that after 12 weeks, u should take a month off, so...do i Have to or is it not needed?


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## 0pete9 (Apr 21, 2007)

Its not needed, strictly a personal choice.


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## DOMS (Apr 21, 2007)

neg


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## P-funk (Apr 21, 2007)

wow, that is fucked up.  i would hate to be a rat on creatine and not have this information available to me.


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## slip (Apr 21, 2007)

If creatine is so widely used why do they persist with rat experiments when they could easily find an applicable human group who is already religiuos in their consistency of intake.

Yes consistency, control group etc etc I know, but still.


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## dontsurfonmytur (Apr 21, 2007)

So anybody have a link or a study that shows cycling creatine is not neeeded, because MOST of u gusy who replied said u dont cycle it.


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## P-funk (Apr 21, 2007)

dontsurfonmytur said:


> So anybody have a link or a study that shows cycling creatine is not neeeded, because MOST of u gusy who replied said u dont cycle it.



no supplement is NEEDED.  You take it get an edge or to supplement your diet with something that you are not (or can not) get enough of.

What do you mean a study showing it is needed?


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## goandykid (Apr 21, 2007)

I take it before I w/o, not after, and not on off days. I still seem to get a boost from it, psychological or not, plus I hate being dehydrated on off days.


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## dontsurfonmytur (Apr 22, 2007)

P-funk said:


> no supplement is NEEDED.  You take it get an edge or to supplement your diet with something that you are not (or can not) get enough of.
> 
> What do you mean a study showing it is needed?



i never said in this thread that creatine is needed or not needed
i said that is cycling of creatine needed or not needed...

and so far i've read a few interesting studies that it is needed, and im asking are there any studies out there that say it really is not necessary, seriously read it correctly.


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## P-funk (Apr 22, 2007)

what other studies have you read that say it is needed?  can you post the abstracts to them?


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## Favre (Apr 23, 2007)

I don't cycle it. I've probably been taking creatine pretty much daily for 7 years plus now. I'm fine. Nowadays I take a few grams Bulk CEE before and after lifting with some taurine. A few grams with breakfast days I don't lift. Unless they come out with 500 or so consecutive definitive studies that prove it's more beneficial to cycle it, I won't change anything. I've figured out by now most studies are pretty much worthless. It's not a miracle supplement anyways, shouldn't expect to put on 15 Ibs. of muscle by taking creatine.


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## AKIRA (Apr 23, 2007)

I dont cycle it but then again I dont keep on taking it.  For instance, I buy a bottle of creatine...when it runs out, I dont rush out to get another one.  I just get another one when I say "fuck it."


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