# Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'



## Ichigo (Oct 9, 2013)

*Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'* 
Biblical scholars will be appearing at the 'Covert Messiah'  Conference at Conway Hall in London on the 19th of October to present  this controversial discovery to the British public. 

American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the  British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October to  present a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently  uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was  written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the  entire story of Jesus Christ. His presentation will be part of a one-day  symposium entitled "Covert Messiah" at Conway Hall in Holborn (full  details can be found at Covert Messiah - 19 October 2013). 

Although to many scholars his theory seems outlandish, and is sure  to upset some believers, Atwill regards his evidence as conclusive and  is confident its acceptance is only a matter of time. "I present my work  with some ambivalence, as I do not want to directly cause Christians  any harm," he acknowledges, "but this is important for our culture.  Alert citizens need to know the truth about our past so we can  understand how and why governments create false histories and false  gods. They often do it to obtain a social order that is against the best  interests of the common people." 

Atwill asserts that Christianity did not really begin as a religion,  but a sophisticated government project, a kind of propaganda exercise  used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire. "Jewish sects in  Palestine at the time, who were waiting for a prophesied warrior  Messiah, were a constant source of violent insurrection during the first  century," he explains. "When the Romans had exhausted conventional  means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare.  They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish  missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That's when  the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring  warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged  Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome." 

the rest can be found at: 

Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'


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## 2B1 (Oct 10, 2013)

This reminds me of the movie Zeitgeist. Very informative... 

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## Standard Donkey (Oct 10, 2013)




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## Luxx (Oct 10, 2013)

I always thought white man created jebus


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## troubador (Oct 10, 2013)

2B1 said:


> This reminds me of the movie Zeitgeist. Very informative...



That movie was a joke. They rambled on about all these similarities between religions then announce at the end that it's all a conspiracy to control the world. A nice sleight of hand after distracting you with shiny objects.


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## dieseljimmy (Oct 10, 2013)

I have never been able to make sense of the concept of a religion.  It just doesnt make sense to me.  It has always made sense to me that people manipulate the truth for a hidden agenda. And in a time when society didnt have a punishment system a elaborate story about higher being that may punish you for inherently  incorrect acts might establish some control.


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## SheriV (Oct 10, 2013)

I'm agnostic as heck ...BUT when I was studying ancient cultures (native mainly)thought it really interesting that every culture I studied had a great flood story including the bible

I genuinely feel bad for anyone that views the Bible as anything other than I sort of guide book for good human behavior filled with stories with a moral or health objective ... "don't eat pork"-sure, don't store and cook it properly you run the risk of dying "don't shag thy neighbors wife"- crazy talk but probably solid advice to not be maced (heavy kind, not pepper spray)

and I mean hey..its endured for thousands of years to control the masses so it was obviously fairly decent propaganda


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## SheriV (Oct 10, 2013)

or in other words; aliens


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## dieseljimmy (Oct 10, 2013)

SheriV said:


> and I mean hey..its endured for thousands of years to control the masses so it was obviously fairly decent propaganda



Amen???

Surely the human race is marginally more advanced because of religion. Humans may have destoyed themselves with out some type of moral outline.
I, even today, in my life I have so much shit I cant make sense of. And I wish I had a anchor to my soul, like god, that I could diffuse all the stuff I cant make sense of. I wish I could take some of my problems and give them to god and feel absolved


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## SheriV (Oct 10, 2013)

yoga with meditation works too, no really

its a double edged sword because humans have destroyed each other plenty in the name of religion too....


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## jay_steel (Oct 10, 2013)

SheriV said:


> I'm agnostic as heck ...BUT when I was studying ancient cultures (native mainly)thought it really interesting that every culture I studied had a great flood story including the bible
> 
> I genuinely feel bad for anyone that views the Bible as anything other than I sort of guide book for good human behavior filled with stories with a moral or health objective ... "don't eat pork"-sure, don't store and cook it properly you run the risk of dying "don't shag thy neighbors wife"- crazy talk but probably solid advice to not be maced (heavy kind, not pepper spray)
> 
> and I mean hey..its endured for thousands of years to control the masses so it was obviously fairly decent propaganda



the whole pork thing is old testament based off of law, the reason for this was pork was actually used to combat and poison because of how fast it would go bad and spoil. It would cause allot of disease which is the reason why it put into the old testament. 

In the new testament it states everything created by God is pure and with Gods blessing is great for us. Thats not word for work but its the point. The thing with religion and the Bible is that it is impossible to interprate. How can you trust a pastor or a man to tell you what it means if they may not know either. I do go to church and follow the word of God, however, i do not let religion dictate what I do. Religion was created by man now God. I read the Bible and pray that God tells me the meaning and helps me understand. I have walked out of many churches because i feel they are teaching based on opinion and not what is right. 

To many churches are founded my hate and not love. A church that tells you to stay away from "sinners" is a wrong church when Jesus himself surrounded him by the worst sinners of them all. I think if Jesus was here to day he would kick it with the Democrats... They are just as bad as the tax collectors of the biblical times. but I read the Bible and do everything in my power to do the right thing. I believe in being a follower of Christ, not a Christian, Catholics, or jew.


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## IronAddict (Oct 10, 2013)

Of coarse man created jesus and god in his own image. Why else would he be so hateful, vengeful, bigoted, greedy and a warmonger etc...

All you had to do is read the sumerian texts to figure that out. Enkei and Enlil and Anu all the same shit all over the world, for thousands of years before us....just the names change.

I tell you, I've a feeling somethings coming down the pipe, why else are they revealing all this shit now. Everything you were taught was a lie!

And some people tried to tell you's....!


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## bio-chem (Oct 10, 2013)

Pretty interesting theory. Funny that the "false" religion these aristocrats created grew so much as to end up taking over control of the Roman Empire long after conventional methods of Roman war actually suppressed the Jewish State of Rebellion. Can this author point to any other cultures the Romans used a false religion to subdue? All the history books I've read state the Romans were generally tolerant of other religions. Pretty interesting this guy is trying to rewrite history the way his is. should make for an interesting if not worthless conversation piece


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## Little Wing (Oct 10, 2013)

no matter what proof anyone presents some people are just not going to let go. then again, it wouldn't surprise me if this whole horse and pony show was a hoax either. 

they say they hope people will accept the "possibility" 

if i had concrete proof of something i would not say i hope you accept the "possibility" it's true, i'd say "them's the facts jack" i think they are presenting merely a theory.


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## SheriV (Oct 10, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> Pretty interesting theory. Funny that the "false" religion these aristocrats created grew so much as to end up taking over control of the Roman Empire long after conventional methods of Roman war actually suppressed the Jewish State of Rebellion. Can this author point to any other cultures the Romans used a false religion to subdue? All the history books I've read state the Romans were generally tolerant of other religions. Pretty interesting this guy is trying to rewrite history the way his is. should make for an interesting if not worthless conversation piece




Roman Catholic Crusades?

please excuse yourself from this conversation


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## 2B1 (Oct 10, 2013)

Lol @ missing the crusades...

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## jay_steel (Oct 10, 2013)

I pray to God my muscles grow which is why i out lift everyone.


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## bio-chem (Oct 10, 2013)

SheriV said:


> Roman Catholic Crusades?
> 
> please excuse yourself from this conversation



SheriV, please tell me you are not confusing the Pagan Roman Empire of the time of Christ (which I was clearly referring, as that is the obvious time period we are discussing if Aristocrats were to invent the Christian Religion as this theory states) to the Holy Roman Empire that sent the crusades over a thousand years later? Surely you are smarter than that? Pull out an 8th Grade history book and educate yourself a bit with the required reading before you step into a conversation you are clearly not prepared for.


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## troubador (Oct 10, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> SheriV, please tell me you are not confusing the Pagan Roman Empire of the time of Christ (which I was clearly referring, as that is the obvious time period we are discussing if Aristocrats were to invent the Christian Religion as this theory states) to the Holy Roman Empire that sent the crusades over a thousand years later? Surely you are smarter than that? Pull out an 8th Grade history book and educate yourself a bit with the required reading before you step into a conversation you are clearly not prepared for.



Hey, what's a thousand years here or there.


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## KelJu (Oct 10, 2013)

dieseljimmy said:


> Amen???
> 
> Surely the human race is marginally more advanced because of religion. Humans may have destoyed themselves with out some type of moral outline.
> I, even today, in my life I have so much shit I cant make sense of. And I wish I had a anchor to my soul, like god, that I could diffuse all the stuff I cant make sense of. I wish I could take some of my problems and give them to god and feel absolved



Yeah religion got us here. But, at some point you have to move forward. If you stay in first gear forever, you will eventually blow the fucking engine up. So, lets move forward past what got us, so that we can continue to evolve.


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## heckler7 (Oct 10, 2013)

If you believe that government created the story of religion for mind control you must also believe that they created the story that they created the story of religion. Sneaky bastards.


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## bio-chem (Oct 10, 2013)

troubador said:


> Hey, what's a thousand years here or there.


haha. facts are funny that way


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## OfficerFarva (Oct 10, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> *no matter what proof anyone presents some people are just not going to let go.* then again, it wouldn't surprise me if this whole horse and pony show was a hoax either.
> 
> they say they hope people will accept the "possibility"
> 
> if i had concrete proof of something i would not say i hope you accept the "possibility" it's true, i'd say "them's the facts jack" i think they are presenting merely a theory.





Now that's irony at it's finest.


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## KelJu (Oct 10, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> SheriV, please tell me you are not confusing the Pagan Roman Empire of the time of Christ (which I was clearly referring, as that is the obvious time period we are discussing if Aristocrats were to invent the Christian Religion as this theory states) to the Holy Roman Empire that sent the crusades over a thousand years later? Surely you are smarter than that? Pull out an 8th Grade history book and educate yourself a bit with the required reading before you step into a conversation you are clearly not prepared for.




You had a chance to really slam her harder than you did.


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## bio-chem (Oct 10, 2013)

KelJu said:


> You had a chance to really slam her harder than you did.



I rewrote it to take some of the sting out of it. She attacked, but I didn't think it was really maliciously.


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## the_predator (Oct 10, 2013)

Listen, it all boils down to hope. Everybody has to have something to hope for right? Whether it is the Christian hoping for his soul to be saved by God when he dies, the everyday Joe that always worries about money that buys a lottery ticket hoping he will be filty rich, the NASA scientists that hope they find the next habitable plant to live on to save mankind, the devil worshippers that sacrifice little animals in hopes that they can get there place beside satan, or even the heroin addict hoping to score that next fix to get high. Everybody hopes or believes in something. I believe in God. I don't care if you do or not and no I'm not going to get into an argument about it. I won't  judge you so please don't judge me. I'll tell you a short story and then I'm done. My brother passed away when I was a teen. He was also a teen and had his whole life ahead of him. I dont know how many times I held a loaded gun to my head after his death and almost pulled the trigger. Do you want to know what stopped me all those times? I thought if I pull this trigger I will never get to see my brother in heaven because I would go to hell for committing suicide. That was 16 years ago. The first two years were hell. We were very close only being born two years apart. I will always think about him and think how much I want to see him. I am not going to push my religion on anybody and don't think down upon people that don't believe. That is their choice. All I know is this. If I didn't believe in God, I would have pulled that trigger and not been here today with a beautiful wife and wonderful daughter.


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## IronAddict (Oct 10, 2013)

Luxx said:


> I always thought white man created jebus



You were so right....

Why else would there be a blond blue eyed man in the middle east, oh yeah, cause he's the son of god!


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## Standard Donkey (Oct 10, 2013)

SheriV said:


> Roman Catholic Crusades?
> 
> please excuse yourself from this conversation





bio-chem said:


> SheriV, please tell me you are not confusing the Pagan Roman Empire of the time of Christ (which I was clearly referring, as that is the obvious time period we are discussing if Aristocrats were to invent the Christian Religion as this theory states) to the Holy Roman Empire that sent the crusades over a thousand years later? Surely you are smarter than that? Pull out an 8th Grade history book and educate yourself a bit with the required reading before you step into a conversation you are clearly not prepared for.



mfw


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## RelentlessRock (Oct 10, 2013)

This is nothing new. So-called scholars have been doing this stuff for 2000 years.  Check with some reputable scholars to see all the bullshit holes in it afterward.  I have studied the historicity of Jesus for over 20 years and it is solid. Nothing could destabilize it. It is history.


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## Zaphod (Oct 10, 2013)

dieseljimmy said:


> Surely the human race is marginally more advanced because of religion.



Ever hear of The Dark Ages?


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## Ichigo (Oct 10, 2013)

I was born into Catholicism, i have two Aunts who are nuns. I went to Catholic school for the first 9 years of my education and deep  down inside i never ever believed Jesus was real or that he even  existed in the first place. Thats why i find this so interesting. If my mom or aunts ever see this they will invoke the wrath of GOD and kick my ass!

What ive become to understand is the Pagan Roman Emperor " forgot his name" created Catholicism, the Church and the Pope. "You know like how black jebus  Obumma created the fourth branch of government." Its also fact the new testament was written around 100 years after zombie jebus died and its also fact that all of the miracles he performed were already done and were attributed to other prophets.


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## SheriV (Oct 10, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> Pretty interesting theory. Funny that the "false" religion these aristocrats created grew so much as to end up taking over control of the Roman Empire long after conventional methods of Roman war actually suppressed the Jewish State of Rebellion. *Can this author point to any other cultures the Romans used a false religion to subdue? All the history books I've read state the Romans were generally tolerant of other religions.* Pretty interesting this guy is trying to rewrite history the way his is. should make for an interesting if not worthless conversation piece




actually this is what I was responding to...but clearly you're superior at debate than I am


but phew, thank god you took the sting out! It would have probably have just ruined my day poor thing that I am.


??jackass


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## Christsean (Oct 10, 2013)

I guess the Roman government failed in their plan to pacify the Jews with Jesus considering the Jews hate Jesus and the Romans had to destroy the Jewish temple in AD 70 because they couldn't control them. 

The man Jesus lived not just in the bible, but in many historical writings of the time. Now what you believe about the man Jesus is entirely up to the individual. But any and every credible historian and scholar does not refute Jesus lived from then until now. Do they believe he was the son of God, not necessarily.


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## maniclion (Oct 10, 2013)

Luxx said:


> I always thought white man created jebus



Nah, it was the Roman mafia in 34 BC.

Same tactic J. Edgar and friends used to create the Hippie culture (they used the outspoken and very rebellious Beats as a scaffold to mold a whole generation into what they wanted) to cultivate pacifists and the drug culture to keep the baby boomers that out numbered them calm and also bank on the massive amount of cash they threw at drugs.  Imagine the 60's revolution if all those kids had become Weathermen or Black Panthers or Hells Angels.  They had to take out Morrison and Hendrix because they were starting to stir up rebellion.  Dylan escaped because his messages were too cryptic for them.

They saw The Wild Ones, Rebel Without a Cause and super slacker pseudo-beat Maynard from Dobie Gillis and they used the latter as a template to avoid a boom generation of the first 2....


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## bio-chem (Oct 10, 2013)

SheriV said:


> actually this is what I was responding to...but clearly you're superior at debate than I am
> but phew, thank god you took the sting out! It would have probably have just ruined my day poor thing that I am.
> ??jackass



exactly, and as I am superior in debate than you are I pointed out how what you responded to was ridiculous. The Pagan Roman Empire when it conquered a people largely left the culture and religion intact. This is well documented and something an 8th grader could tell you. You pointing out the crusades which happened over a thousand years later is completely unrelated both to the topic at hand, and my question, as the Holy Roman Empire is completely different and unrelated other than geography. The funny part is you telling me I should step out of the conversation when you really don't have a clue what you are talking about. 

I'm glad that an internet post pointing out your mistake wouldn't ruin your day. You seem like a pretty decent person. I don't think it should ruin your day as we all make boneheaded mistakes and i don't think yours was particularly worth more than a quick hip check. I don't have anything against you, and I didn't want to come off as too much a jack ass in my response. Kelju and I enjoy a healthy debate, and a good internet bashing is justified now and then for the particularly retarded. Kelju was just commenting that sometimes I'm a bit harsher in my response when someone makes a mistake.


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## Little Wing (Oct 10, 2013)

i don't really see how any rational person can NOT think all the god stories of every religion are just made up. i understand the _hope_ they are true but not the hook, line, and sinker belief. i also doubt very much the intent of it all was some dark motive. i think these stories began as a comfort and aid.... later on they got used for power and profit.


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## LAM (Oct 10, 2013)

Luxx said:


> I always thought white man created jebus



it sounds exactly like what it is, bullshit and that was my impression of Christianity when I was about 8 sitting in church, now at almost 50 I just have to laugh and chuckle at all this religious nonsense.


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## LAM (Oct 10, 2013)

troubador said:


> Hey, what's a thousand years here or there.



or 4-5 billion?  I mean that's close to 6,000 right...LOL


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## Arnold (Oct 11, 2013)

I don't need a book, stories or religion to have morals and ethics, but sheep do. So I guess religion has some sort of purpose, although a shitty one.
And yes religion was created by royalty to control the pheasants, u were either super rich or super poor. They had to instill the "fear of god" in people so they would behave and accept that they were peons.

www.IronMagLabs.com


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)




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## Dale Mabry (Oct 11, 2013)

I think it's fairly obvious to anyone who's taken basic biology and understands it that the bible was completely made up.  I mean, evolution by natural selection is the guiding tenet of biology.  It would be like being a pilot but not believing in the concept of flight.  To believe a book that states the world is 6000 years old and man was created in the image of God is to deny that evolution is real.  That isn't to say that there is no God, just that the book is made up, obviously.

"Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution."  -Theodosius Dobzhansky


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## KelJu (Oct 11, 2013)

RelentlessRock said:


> This is nothing new. So-called scholars have been doing this stuff for 2000 years.  Check with some reputable scholars to see all the bullshit holes in it afterward.  I have studied the historicity of Jesus for over 20 years and it is solid. Nothing could destabilize it. It is history.



I don't believe that. History is not accurate from 50 years ago. How do you expect history from 2000 years ago to be accurate? There is always a chance that records might be found that would completely change history.


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## heckler7 (Oct 11, 2013)

god is real, he told me so, you have to lift to get into heaven, I'll see you all in hell


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## IronAddict (Oct 11, 2013)

All of us, every single human being has the voice of god in him. You ever in a situation where you had to stop & think about what you were about to do, think about the pros & cons ? And then miraculously you hear a voice saying don't do that you dumb shit!

It's called your conscience! 

Someone who wanted to capitalize on your gullibility and make a mint said, "that was god".


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## heckler7 (Oct 11, 2013)

its harder to be good 7 days a week than just good on sunday


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## blergs. (Oct 11, 2013)

*Jesus WAS a real person! was killed! was a good person and helped heal many people( mostly with cannabis oils and other herbs) and helped people on the right path of enlightenment... SEE HERE> Cannabis and the Christ: Jesus used Marijuana | Cannabis Culture
*http://www.cannabisculture.com/content/1998/01/02/Cannabis-and-Christ-Jesus-used-Marijuana
*but he  was not known as holy from birth!, was not made preggo to ?virgin mary? (BTW virgin meant ?pure? in old translation, not necessarily meaning no sex, funny how it was made to be that?), was same flesh and blood as me and you, just with more "awareness" he was more like the buddha of that area... he was killed due to greed and fear from the higher powers ( priests and governments under the guise of blasphemy?) 

he was helping everyone and trying to get people to open their minds... helping heal with oils and herbs that was normally for the rich that would go see the priests for it? that does not go well with population control...
"I am the son of god"  ok... he also says "we are all sons and daughters of god"     but its funny how they pick to make it like ONLY HE is the holy one.. we all have the power/chance to become enlightened beings... he was only of a few early ones that were noted in history... like Ghandi, Dali lama, Buddha and so on..

I NEVER understood how ANYONE could fallow the  "new testament" let alone the old construed and rewritten "old testament" !!   and i was brought up roman catholic and lets just say even my grandma has a holy water think on the wall when you enter the front door... So I was brought up ?holy?  but I have the IQ to see how much bullshit is in there.  ?GOD? would really be so simple? It is not a fat guy on a could watching us. Merely (to me) the/a life force?. I belive in  ?God? but not the primitive one spoken of in the  ?holy book?  for god fearing people to use and for them to ?behave??

lets not forget the nagmati scrolls recently found? that contradict the bible left and right?... id say 99% of Jesus's REAL teachings have now been lost ( atleast to general public)

hey you want a good read/ listen?  "the third Jesus" by deepkack chopra is very good... kinda mentions how alot of his teachings were ( likely intentionally) misinterpreted along with outright changed or taken away! 
There was some momentum started by him in his name... then it was taken over by greed and for power over the people.. IMO?. very sad really.

Here is link to "the third Jesus" > The Third Jesus: The Christ We Cannot Ignore | The Chopra Center
I have the whole thing on audio book its 111MB, pm me and ill try to email it if it fits.... not sure if file it too big but ill try. Or look for it in torrents/download sites? the one I used it is not there right now.*


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## blergs. (Oct 11, 2013)

KelJu said:


> I don't believe that. History is not accurate from 50 years ago. How do you expect history from 2000 years ago to be accurate? There is always a chance that records might be found that would completely change history.


YEP!!

not JESUS's writting BUT still seems more likely to be more truth in the few scrolls then the whole "holy book" > Nag Hammadi library - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 
Nag Hammadi library - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## blergs. (Oct 11, 2013)

Luxx said:


> I always thought white man created jebus



No, white man made Jesus white.... but we was likely brown ( middle eastern)... not white.... but when you are controlling the minds of your population and they are white for the most part......


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## blergs. (Oct 11, 2013)

dieseljimmy said:


> i have never been able to make sense of the concept of a religion.  It just doesnt make sense to me.  It has always made sense to me that people manipulate the truth for a hidden agenda. And in a time when society didnt have a punishment system a elaborate story about higher being that may punish you for inherently  incorrect acts might establish some control.


agreed!!!


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## OfficerFarva (Oct 11, 2013)

blergs. said:


> *Jesus WAS a real person! was killed! was a good person and helped heal many people( mostly with cannabis oils and other herbs) and helped people on the right path of enlightenment... SEE HERE> Cannabis and the Christ: Jesus used Marijuana | Cannabis Culture
> *http://www.cannabisculture.com/content/1998/01/02/Cannabis-and-Christ-Jesus-used-Marijuana
> *but he  was not known as holy from birth!, was not made preggo to ?virgin mary? (BTW virgin meant ?pure? in old translation, not necessarily meaning no sex, funny how it was made to be that?), was same flesh and blood as me and you, just with more "awareness" he was more like the buddha of that area... he was killed due to greed and fear from the higher powers ( priests and governments under the guise of blasphemy?)
> 
> ...





These kinds of posts make me wonder how you became a mod here twice, do you pay prince monthly or was it just a lump sum payment?


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## blergs. (Oct 11, 2013)

IronAddict said:


> Of coarse man created jesus and god in his own image. Why else would he be so hateful, vengeful, bigoted, greedy and a warmonger etc...
> 
> All you had to do is read the sumerian texts to figure that out. Enkei and Enlil and Anu all the same shit all over the world, for thousands of years before us....just the names change.
> 
> ...



Yep, there is a new era coming and sadly many that feel the safest are the ones living in ignorant bliss that will have their world shaken... religion will be a big issue for some... needing to admit they were following word for word something that was not fact.. was not truth... was miss-interpreted at best...
here is a nice book i liked, got it on audio also>
site> Eckhart Tolle TV | Books - New Earth     the power of now is also VERY good.
link to audio> http://kickass.to/a-new-earth-eckhart-tolle-audiobook-unabridged-t80421.html#comments_tab


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## blergs. (Oct 11, 2013)

........


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## heckler7 (Oct 11, 2013)

I'm developing a new line of gear made with the purest of holy oils blessed by a real Rabbi to give you the power of Christ and Tren, don't go to the after life pale and unjerked get massive. Don't forget to stack IML's Halo Xtreme you'll need those too in the after life too


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## SheriV (Oct 11, 2013)

will this be good for the ladies too?


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## heckler7 (Oct 11, 2013)

there will be a blend of var/Viagra/ cocaine to make woman shredded horny and bang all nite


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## SheriV (Oct 11, 2013)

I'm in...I love all of those things!...errrrrr, hear they're all good


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

i always suspected the turning water into wine thing involved hallucinogens. mushrooms and wine are awesome but would work with water almost as well. 

whether religion is true or not is far more complicated than purely whether god is real or not. with concrete proof all gods were created from the mind of man it could turn into "these are the beliefs and lessons of my forefathers... ideals i strive to live my life by and in doing so honor my heritage" 

... it doesn't have to be true to be loved or valuable. no proof will make it just go away. if the sky opened up and god revealed himself all we would get is people telling us for centuries to come how the trick was done. people are stubborn.


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## jagbender (Oct 11, 2013)

Getting back, the evolutionist believes the evolutionary cycle is never ending, but they too cannot explain why according to their Darwin inspired calculations that there has been no new species recorded for hundreds of millions of years, let alone the true 6000 years as reality dictates.
They also state it takes billions of years for each animal, insect or plant to evolve. If that's true, why do we have termites? Termites eat wood but can't digest it. In their intestines are smaller insects that digest the cellulose the termites place in there for them. Kind of like the worm inside the cricket. The termite can't exist without the smaller insect, and the smaller insect can't live without the termite. If evolution is true neither insect should be on this planet.

Moving right along we have the big bang theory which declares a spinning dot of absolutely nothing exploded to form all the planets, stars, asteroids, black holes, quasars, nova?s, and primordial soup found on earth. According to the scientific discovery called, ?conservation of angular momentum?, which actually means, if what?s spinning in a clockwise manner explodes, everything flying off of it will explode in the exact same manner. That being the case, why is it 2 planets, and numerous moons orbiting many planets in our galaxy alone spin in a different direction than all the others. If their big bang theory was true, why is it those planets and moons appear to have come off of a different explosion? Were there two big bangs?


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## jagbender (Oct 11, 2013)

*Prove Evolution Is False - Even Without the Bible*





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_article by Mario Seiglie_

*There are logical reasons apart from Scripture's direct testimony to reject the theory of evolution and accept creation and a Creator.
*





trilobite fossil

Source: Photos.com​Can we prove that evolution is false without using the Bible? Certainly we can! Evolution is a scientific theory that stands or falls on the physical evidence. In fact, one can be an atheist, a person who doesn't believe in God, and still not believe in evolution!
Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, as taught at school, is a biological explanation of how creatures have supposedly "evolved" or developed progressively through natural selection and variation (now known as mutation) over eons of time from the tiny cell to the largest creatures on earth today. What is taught in classrooms is not mere _micro_evolution?small changes within a species?but _macro_ evolution, the change from one type of creature to another quite distinct life form.
What many evolutionists are trying to convince you of is that there is no need for a Creator since, as they say, evolution can substitute as the mechanism for creating and transforming life. They teach that life arose from non-life and evolved from simpler creatures to more complex life forms. In other words, the tiny cell eventually became an amoeba, then a lizard, then a monkey, and finally?_ you_ !
In order to remember key points that disprove Darwinian evolution?the "molecules to man" theory?we'll use the acronym FALSE. (A few of these points also disprove the compromise of theistic evolution?the notion that God employed macroevolution over eons in forming the creatures we see on earth today.)
*F for Fossils*

A fossil is the preserved remains of a living thing. The fossil record around the earth extends an average of one mile deep. Below this level we come up with a blank slate as far as living, complex creatures are concerned.
I collect fossils of what are deemed the earliest type of complex creatures with hard bodies?trilobites. No previous ancestors of these arthropods have been found. Similar to some marine "bugs" we see today on the seashore that disappear into the sand when the waves retreat, trilobites had hard shells, all the basic organs, and complex eyes like those of flies, with hundreds of sophisticated lenses connected to the optic nerve going to the brain. Trilobite fossils are found around the earth, and in all cases the level of rock beneath them does not reveal other creatures with similar features.
As one source states: "The dominant life form was the now-extinct sea creature known as a trilobite, up to a foot long, with a distinctive head and tail, a body made up of several parts, and a complex respiratory system. But although there are many places on earth where 5,000 feet of sedimentary rock stretch unbroken and uniformly beneath the Cambrian [layer], not a single indisputable multi-celled fossil has been found there. It is 'the enigma of paleontological [fossil studies] enigmas,' according to Stephen Gould. Darwin himself said he could give 'no satisfactory answer' to why no fossils had been discovered. Today's scientists are none the wiser" (Francis Hitching, _The Neck of the Giraffe_ , 1982, pp. 26-27).
Question: If, after almost two centuries of digging beneath all the world's continents, no previous ancestor of this first hard-bodied creature has been found, how then did the ubiquitous trilobite evolve? There should be some previous ancestor if evolution were true.
It's like finding an exquisite watch on the seashore and yet never finding any previous primitive models of the watch on earth. If you reasoned as an evolutionist, you would deny there was a need for a watchmaker at all, maintaining that time, water, sand, minerals and actions of the elements are sufficient to producing a fully functional watch that runs. This is part of the reason it takes more faith to believe in evolution than in a Creator!
Further important evidence from the fossil record is the absence of transitional forms between species. Darwin was concerned that the thousands of intermediate stages between creatures needed to prove his theory were not in evidence, but he expected they would eventually be found. Yet those thousands of missing transitional forms are still missing!
Another reference explains: "If throughout past ages life was actually drifting over in one continual stream from one form to another, it is to be expected that as many samples of the intermediate stages between species should be discovered in fossil condition as of the species themselves ? All should be in a state of flux. But these missing links are wanting. There are no fossils of creatures whose scales were changing into feathers or whose feet were changing into wings, no fossils of fish getting legs or of reptiles getting hair. The real task of the geological evolutionist is not to find 'the' missing link, as if there were only one. The task is to find those thousands upon thousands of missing links that connect the many fossil species with one another" (Byron Nelson, _After Its Kind_ , 1970, pp. 60-62).
The absence of transitional forms is an insurmountable hurdle for theistic evolutionists as well. It also fits with our next point.
*A for Assumption*

When there is no real evidence, evolutionary scientists simply make assumptions.
If evolution were true, then where is the evidence of different types of animals now "evolving" into other types? Where is the evidence of cats, dogs and horses gradually turning into something else? We do see changes within species, but we do not see any changes into other species. And, as mentioned, we see no evidence of gradual change in the fossil record either. Yet evolutionists continue to assume that transitional forms must have existed.
In Darwin's landmark book _On the Origin of Species_ there are some 800 subjective clauses, with uncertainty repeatedly admitted instead of proof. Words such as "could," "perhaps" and "possibly" plague the entire book.
Evolution is still called a theory?a possible explanation or assumption?because it is not testable according to the scientific method, as this would require thousands or millions of years. Evolutionists will counter that a theory is not a mere hypothesis but is a widely affirmed intellectual construct that generally appears to fit all the facts. Yet evolution in no way fits all the facts available. Evidence does not support it?and in many respects runs counter to it.
*L for Life*

The law of biogenesis as taught in biology class states that only life can produce life.
You've probably heard the famous question: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? It's a real dilemma for an evolutionist to answer. An egg comes from a chicken, yet the chicken comes from an egg. How can there be one without the other?
To complicate matters even more, the chicken has to come from a _fertilized _egg that has the mixture of two different genetic strains from both its parents. So the problem of the origin of life and initial reproduction is still a mystery that evolutionary science cannot adequately answer.
Yet for someone who believes in special creation by a Creator, there is no dilemma here. First God made the male and female chickens, which produced the first fertilized egg?and the rest is history.
*S for Symbiosis*

When one living thing needs another different living thing to survive, it's called a symbiotic relationship.
A good example of this is the relationship between bees and flowers. The bees need the nectar from some types of flowers to feed while these flowers need bees to pollinate them. Both depend on each other to exist and survive. The question for evolutionists is: How did these plants exist without the bees, and how did the bees exist without these plants?
Again, atheistic scientists are stumped. Theistic evolutionists are perplexed as well. Yet if you believe in a Creator who specially created the various forms of life on earth, the answer is simple?both were created at about the same time.
*E for Engineering*

All living things are exquisitely engineered or designed. Qualitatively, a bacterium is as majestically built for its purpose as a human body is for its function. Yet evolution says it's only an _illusion_ of design?that there is no real designer behind it. Reality is not an illusion! Living things are multi-functional, which means they do many complex things at the same time, something evolution with its step-by-step process has never been able to demonstrate.
One example of a living thing with exquisite engineering is the tree. It provides breathable oxygen for us while processing carbon dioxide, which would in high amounts in the air be toxic to us. It supplies wood, housing for birds, roots to limit erosion, fruit and seeds to eat, is biodegradable and gives shade. According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, "A healthy tree provides a cooling effect that is equivalent to 10 room-size air conditioners operating 20 hours a day." How could something so complex arise from a random, undirected evolutionary process?
Again, you need more "faith" to believe in blind evolution than in an all-knowing Creator who designed the marvelous tree in the first place.
Now you have five proofs that evolution is F-A-L-S-E and that special creation is true?and we didn't even use the Bible. Remember the acronym FALSE when you read or hear about evolution?and do take time to read our Creator's great book of truth! It has much to say regarding origins.


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## jagbender (Oct 11, 2013)

[h=2]The Fossil Record[/h]If this big, ridiculous, idiotic lie, this complicated, fabricated framework of fiction called evolution were true, then there should be more missing links dug up than anything else! If there were billions of years of evolution, we'd be up to our ears in missing links!
Even Darwin realised this, and so said, "As by this theory innumerable transitional forms ("links") must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? ... The number of intermediate and transitional links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great. He then answered his own question about these missing links by declaring: "I believe the answer lies in the (geological) record being incomparably less perfect than is generally supposed."
But now, 120 years later, Darwin's excuse is totally ridiculous! Literally hundreds of millions of fossils have been extracted from all fossil-bearing rock strata and none of them are "transitional forms" or missing links--they all obviously belong to a definite species! In fact, it is estimated that over 100,000 different, distinct species of fossils have been found! Yes, no "links"!
A.S. Romer, professor of zoology at Harvard University, recently summed up the present situation when he said:
"'Links' are missing just where we most fervently desire them, and it is all too probable that many 'links' will continue to be missing."​


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

blergs. said:


> No, white man made Jesus white.... but we was likely brown ( middle eastern)... not white.... but when you are controlling the minds of your population and they are white for the most part......



Jesus was Jewish. What color are Jews?


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## OfficerFarva (Oct 11, 2013)

jagbender said:


> Getting back, the evolutionist believes the evolutionary cycle is never ending, but they too cannot explain why according to their Darwin inspired calculations that there has been no new species recorded for hundreds of millions of years, let alone the true 6000 years as reality dictates.
> They also state it takes billions of years for each animal, insect or plant to evolve. If that's true, why do we have termites? Termites eat wood but can't digest it. In their intestines are smaller insects that digest the cellulose the termites place in there for them. Kind of like the worm inside the cricket. The termite can't exist without the smaller insect, and the smaller insect can't live without the termite. If evolution is true neither insect should be on this planet.
> 
> Moving right along we have the big bang theory which declares a spinning dot of absolutely nothing exploded to form all the planets, stars, asteroids, black holes, quasars, nova?s, and primordial soup found on earth. According to the scientific discovery called, ?conservation of angular momentum?, which actually means, if what?s spinning in a clockwise manner explodes, everything flying off of it will explode in the exact same manner. That being the case, why is it 2 planets, and numerous moons orbiting many planets in our galaxy alone spin in a different direction than all the others. If their big bang theory was true, why is it those planets and moons appear to have come off of a different explosion? Were there two big bangs?




Your ignorance knows no boundaries does it?  Evolution takes a long time, say a hundred thousand or more years, not a billion+ years to occur.  Human society has only been around for a few thousand years, you're expecting us to see new species popping up everyday?  I won't even start on the termite thing, that shows me just how uneducated you are.  Same with the physics stuff.


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## jagbender (Oct 11, 2013)

Bacterial Flagellum Falsifies Evolutionary Theory AUTHOR:William DembskiWhen considering the assembly process involved in the bacterial flagellum, there exists a sequence that must be followed for successful assembly. There are three groups of genes labeled Class I, Class II, and Class III which must be assembled in order. The assembly process includes several key check points (feedback loops) that must be satisfied during the expression of each class of genes in the hierarchy, or the succeeding sets of genes are transcriptionally arrested. (Darwin?s Nemesis p. 214-15)
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## jagbender (Oct 11, 2013)

Bacterial Flagellum Falsifies Evolutionary Theory AUTHOR:William DembskiWhen considering the assembly process involved in the bacterial flagellum, there exists a sequence that must be followed for successful assembly. There are three groups of genes labeled Class I, Class II, and Class III which must be assembled in order. The assembly process includes several key check points (feedback loops) that must be satisfied during the expression of each class of genes in the hierarchy, or the succeeding sets of genes are transcriptionally arrested. (Darwin?s Nemesis p. 214-15) 


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## jagbender (Oct 11, 2013)

DNA Evolution is Impossible Each gene is a sequence of DNA about one thousand nucleotides long, and each nucleotide consists of a sugar, a nitrogen containing base, and a phosphate group. The nucleotides in a DNA chain are linked together through their phosphate groups. According to Hoyle (1960), the probability that the chance occurrence of random mutations could, through the long process of time, accidentally create the complex ordered relationships expressed through the genetic codes could be likened to the probability that a tornado sweeping through a junkyard might assemble a Boeing 747 (Woodward, 1988).
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## jagbender (Oct 11, 2013)

First Two Laws of Thermodynamics Falsify Darwinian Evolution Of all the laws of science, the laws of thermodynamics, particularly the first two, are the most important. These laws can be applied to the most enormous objects in the universe or to tiny invisible particles. They hold true for matter or energy, or both.
A wide variety of conditions can be applied and the results will always be the same. The two laws of thermodynamics impact almost every branch of science. They were formally discovered around 200 years ago in the course of experiments with heat and its movement.
The Greek word for ?thermodynamics? is composed of ?_therme?_ meaning heat and ?_dunamis_? referring to power or energy. Energy is difficult to define because it cannot be seen and does not have mass. You can only observe its effects. You cannot see electricity, but you can see its effect when lightning strikes the earth. There are different kinds of energy?mechanical, chemical, electrical, magnetic, nuclear, heat and light. The most amazing phenomenon found while developing the steam engine during the Industrial Revolution is that heat energy can be transformed into mechanical and other kinds of energy (nuclear energy excepted). This prompted fresh insight into how all kinds of energy can be transferred from one form to another. As investigations continued, definite predictable patterns were formed. Mathematical relationships were discovered, giving birth to the most fundamental laws of science - *The Laws of Thermodynamics.*
These laws were developed by Lord William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907), a devout Christian and creationist whose stature as a scientist rivals that of Newton. Lord Kelvin made numerous contributions to science including many inventions. He held 21 honorary doctorates. It is no surprise that he discovered these vital universal laws given his faith that the creation came from an infinite loving intelligent God.
The First Law of Thermodynamics states that the amount of energy and matter remain constant. Matter or energy may change from one form to another but will always be conserved. Matter and energy can be neither created nor destroyed. This law is known as the Law of Conservation of matter and energy.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics holds that energy and matter have a universal tendency to go to disorder, a process known as entropy. The universe is basically running down in every form. Organization if let alone becomes disorganization. Energy must be added to the system to increase order and lower entropy.
Both of these laws run counter to the concept of Darwinian Evolution. They tell us that without an influx of energy from a source outside of a closed system, e.g. the universe, matter will go from organization to disorganization and that in our present universe matter is not created or destroyed and will tend towards conservation not upward evolutionary changes.
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## jagbender (Oct 11, 2013)

Intelligent Design Will Not Go Away! AUTHOR:William A. Dembski has a Ph.D. in philosophy, a Ph.D. in mathematics and a M.S. in Statistics from the University of Chicago. He also has a M. Div. degree from Princeton Theological Seminary. Phillip Johnson received his B.A. from Harvard and his J.D. from the University of Chicago. Johnson is the author of Darwin on Trial and more recently Reason in the Balance. Darwin on Trial contends theories of evolution are based on philosophical naturalism. Reason in the Balance explores the post-modern philosophy and its impact on society. Since the writing of his books, Johnson has spoken and debated extensively with experts on these issues.Phillip Johnson graduated first in his law school class at the University of Chicago and clerked for Chief Justice Earl Warren. Jonathan Wells got double 800?s on his SAT?s and was awarded a full, merit-based undergraduate scholarship at Princeton in the 1960?s. Guillermo Gonzalez, though a young assistant professor has over sixty articles in refereed astronomy and astrophysical journals. Not to mention the two PhD?s William Dembski has earned, in mathematics, University of Chicago and philosophy, University of Illinois at Chicago. (Darwin?s Nemesis p. 85)
As an example of broadening one?s way of looking at science and interpreting it, is an accusation from critics of intelligent design on how ID theorists look at some of their work.
Accordingly, they fault design theorists for going to the biological literature to pull out quotes and ideas that support intelligent design. The critics are outraged because they see the design theorists as shamelessly exploiting the hard scientific work of others and interpreting it in ways that the scientists who originally did the work would reject. We have nothing to be ashamed of here. As Nobel laureate William Lawrence Bragg remarked, ?The important thing in science is not so much to obtain new facts as to discover new ways of thinking about them.? Intelligent design is doing just that-discovering new ways of thinking about and interpreting the well-established facts of science that pertain to biological complexity and diversity (Darwin?s Nemesis p. 96)
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## jagbender (Oct 11, 2013)

Von Braun States That Scientific Honesty Must Include Alternative Theories AUTHOR:Werner Von Braun, PhD (Aerospace Engineering)"For me, the idea of a creation is not conceivable without invoking the necessity of design. One cannot be exposed to the law and order of the universe without concluding that there must be design and purpose behind it all.
"My experiences with science led me to God. They challenge science to prove the existence of God. But must we really light a candle to see the sun?
"It is in scientific honesty that I endorse the presentation of alternative theories for the origin of the universe, life and man in the science classroom. It would be an error to overlook the possibility that the universe was planned rather than happening by chance."
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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i don't really see how any rational person can NOT think all the god stories of every religion are just made up. i understand the _hope_ they are true but not the hook, line, and sinker belief. i also doubt very much the intent of it all was some dark motive. i think these stories began as a comfort and aid.... later on they got used for power and profit.



coming from the same rational thinker that believes in Obamacare because everyone deserves healthcare, everyone deserves higher pay, and everyone deserves welfare. 

Sure we can not prove what happened 1000's of years ago, but you can neither prove that it did not happen. I have witnessed people accomplishing great things in life after giving their lives to God. I have seen more success and joyful lives from those who have faith then those who do not. I have seen miracles on the battle field and in my community. Wither it is coincidence or not, i do believe and i have 100% satisfied with my life. 

A cool story wither you believe it to be a higher power or not still a cool story. A good friend of mine who is a real Christian. Reason why i say real Christian is because there are many extremist Christians and fake Christians. He is a real down to earth logical Christian. Tried to get his down to accept God for years. His dad was broke, jobless working day jobs to pay the bills. Use to manage a construction company until the economy crashed. His dad finally broke down after years of unemployment and asked God why and then asked his son why. His son said I dont know why dont you just read the Bible. So he started to read the Bible and understand live is about giving and not about his needs. So he started to go to Church and would give his services. He would tithe every service as well no matter how broke he was. 

There was one morning he had ZERO money to give and he was in tears because he wanted to give so bad. As he was walking to his car he found 10$ on the ground. In stead of keeping the money for him self he gave it to the church to pay for Bibles for the troops. That next week he gets a phone call from a HUGE industrial construction company saying they have been looking for a manager and found one of his old business cards in a rolladex and asked if he wanted to interview. He got the job the next week and was making more money then he could imagine so he opened a landscaping business to help out with unemployed members of his church to help them get by under hard times.

Then there is my best friend who went form drug addict atheist homeless armed robber, meth addict, should have been dead on the street to an Olympic Athlete. because he had a dream that God told him to train for BMX, but not to go amateur but to go pro.  But do it in a way that you can help the kids. He know runs a non profit company that helps 1,000's of kids. Freewheel Project 

So sure it may be luck or what ever, but I feel alot of people have a bad taste in their mouths from horrible Christians and honestly have no understanding of what it means to be a real Christian. Yes to many of us are judgemental and hypocrites, but that is like saying every black person is a welfare criminal. 

I have even more unexplainable miracles in the battlefield where people should not be alive period.


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## jagbender (Oct 11, 2013)

Rocks Contain Evidence of a Worldwide Deluge Rocks contain important evidence about the origin of the earth. Geologists classify rocks into three basic types based upon the processes by which the rocks are formed. The first type is_igneous_ rock, which is formed from magma. If magma reaches the earth?s surface, it changes into the lava that spills from volcanoes.  Once the rocks hit the surface, they are subject to environmental factors such as wind, rain, and even catastrophic events (like a worldwide Flood).
These factors will cause rock to fracture into small pieces that become cemented together. Cement is made up of chemicals that, when mixed with water, harden in a short period of time. Rocks are made up of small fractures or sediments are classified as _sedimentary_. The third type of rock is metamorphic?rock that has changed dramatically into a new chemical composition. For instance, limestone changes into marble when placed under tremendous heat and pressure.

*Rock**Process**Found**Example*IgneousCooling magma/lavaBottom rockGraniteSedimentaryCompacting/CementingOn topSandstoneMetamorphicPressure and heatSandwichedMarble
A set of basic questions arises when one considers the processes required to form these three kinds of rock. The answers offered by the evolutionary model leave gaping holes in the search for intelligent conclusions. The catastrophic worldwide Flood model offers a more rational, coherent framework for answering these basic questions.
*1. How do the sedimentary rocks get hard?*
Sedimentary rock needs water for cementing the tiny particles of sediments together. Where did the water come from? Evolutionists resolve this dilemma by waving the magic wand of ?time.? They insist that the sediments are washed into rivers, lakes, and oceans, and then fall to the bottom and pile up in layers. After many years, these sediments harden in layers, with those on the bottom hardening first. The problem with this theory is that there are beds of sedimentary rock everywhere on top of the earth?s crust. Most of the large mountain chains are made of sedimentary rocks. How did all those sediments collect and become cemented together to make towering mountains?  The logical answer is a worldwide Flood.
*2. Is there an alternative to time as the mechanism of rock formation?*
Yes! Rock formation can be explained by means of two processes, compaction and cementation that could have occurred within one year after the waters of the Flood began to subside.               
Global Floodwater would have collected a huge amount of sediment. When the Floodwater came to rest, the sediment would have begun to fall out. At the beginning, before the water started to evaporate, there would have been a great deal of pressure on the bottom layers. This would cause compaction. Creation Geologist John Morris explains this as a pancake effect. 
?When a pancake layer of sediments is covered with other pancakes, the sand grains are pushed closer together; squeezing the water out.  Compaction is the first step in turning sediment into a sedimentary rock, but not the only step.? John Morris, The Geology Book,(Master Books, Green Forrest,AR.2000) p36.
The second step is cementation. The glue that hardens the rock is generated by the warm water and minerals produced by the effects of the Flood. It does not take a long time for the rock to harden into layers. The layers that are observed are actually strata of sediments called, as John Morris put it, ?pancakes.?
This process need not take a long time. Remember, making sedimentary rocks is like preparing cement. To make cement you need to have the proper ingredients and the right conditions. The waters would have been warm and deep at one time, giving the added energy needed for compaction. The worldwide Flood model provides the massive amount of water and sediment that would be needed to build the thick pancake layering for the mountains present today. It makes for a more intelligent alternative.
*3. What supplied the massive pressure and heat needed to make metamorphic rocks?*
The heat and pressure required to make the vast amount of metamorphic rock in the earth?s crust is not today available. The source of energy to do that has to be tremendous and is not presently observed anywhere on earth. A catastrophic Flood that is spoken of in Genesis 6-9 could produce the forces needed to create metamorphic rock on the scale observed today.
4*. Why are fossils found in abundance on every continent?*
Fossils are traces of plant and animal life that existed in the past and are found only in sedimentary rocks. Creationists believe that fossils were deposited during the global Flood, an obvious source of the water needed for both compaction and cementation. Fossils number in the trillions and suggest a swift catastrophic event that buried them before any decay or decomposition occurred. Rocks at one time had to be soft or have a liquid to flow over them and bury them. Castings of thousands of fish have been found in sedimentary layers. If these fish had lain on the ground exposed to the elements they would have disintegrated rapidly. Fish bones and scales do not harden?they scatter. Yet there are fossilized castings that show bone, and even scale, as if somebody took a picture and embedded it in the rocks. Fish fossils, for example, are common in the Green River Shales in Wyoming. One would have to conclude that these fossils, as observed today had to be the result of a catastrophic event that would cause rapid burial. The fossil evidence points to a worldwide Flood.
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## jagbender (Oct 11, 2013)

OfficerFarva said:


> Your ignorance knows no boundaries does it?  Evolution takes a long time, say a hundred thousand or more years, not a billion+ years to occur.  Human society has only been around for a few thousand years, you're expecting us to see new species popping up everyday?  I won't even start on the termite thing, that shows me just how uneducated you are.  Same with the physics stuff.



BIBLE References -- GENEALOGIES	EARTH'S AGE	ACTUAL DATES
Gen.5:1,2 -- The Creation of Adam		6 days	 4160 B.C.
Gen.5:3  -- Creation of Adam to birth of Seth 	 130 yrs.	130 yrs.	4030 B.C.
Gen.5:6  -- Birth of Seth to birth of Enos	105 yrs.	235 yrs.	3925 B.C.
Gen.5:9  -- Birth of Enos to birth of Cainan 90 yrs. 325 yrs.	3835 B.C.
Gen.5:12  -- Birth of Cainan to birth of Mahalaleel	70 yrs.	395 yrs.	3765 B.C.
Gen.5:15  -- Birth of Mahalaleel to birth of Jared	65 yrs.	460 yrs.	3700 B.C.
Gen.5:18  -- Birth of Jared to birth of Enoch	162 yrs.	622 yrs.	3538 B.C.
Gen.5:21  -- Birth of Enoch to birth of Methuselah	65 yrs.	687 yrs.	3473 B.C.
Gen.5:25  -- Birth of Methuselah to birth of Lamech	187 yrs.	874 yrs.	3286 B.C.
Gen.5:28,29  -- Birth of Lamech to birth of Noah	182 yrs.	1056 yrs.	3104 B.C.
Gen.7:6  -- Birth of Noah to the Flood		600 yrs.	1656 yrs.	2504 B.C.
Gen.11:10  -- The Flood to the birth of Arphaxad	 2 yrs.	1658 yrs.	2502 B.C.
Gen.11:12  -- Birth of Arphaxad to birth of Salah	35 yrs.	1693 yrs.	2467 B.C.
Gen.11:14  -- Birth of Salah to birth of Eber	.30 yrs.	1723 yrs.	2437 B.C.
Gen.11:16  -- Birth of Eber to birth of Peleg	34 yrs.	1757 yrs.	2403 B.C.
Gen.11:18  -- Birth of Peleg to birth of Reu	30 yrs.	1787 yrs.	2372 B.C.
Gen.11:20  -- Birth of Reu to birth of Serug	32 yrs.	1819 yrs.	2341 B.C.
Gen.11:22  -- Birth of Serug to birth of Nahor	30 yrs.	1849 yrs.	2311 B.C.
Gen.11:24  -- Birth of Nahor to birth of Terah	29 yrs.	1878 yrs.	2282 B.C.
Gen.11:26  -- Birth of Terah to birth of Abram	70 yrs.	1948 yrs.	2212 B.C.
Gen.21:5  -- Birth of Abraham to birth of Isaac	100 yrs.	2048 yrs.	2112 B.C.
Gen.25:26  -- Birth of Isaac to birth of Jacob	60 yrs.	2108 yrs.	2052 B.C.
Gen.47:5-12  -- Birth of Jacob to entering Egypt	130 yrs.	2238 yrs.	1922 B.C.
Ex.12:40, 41  -- Entering Egypt to Exodus		430 yrs.	2668 yrs.	1492 B.C.
1Kg.6:1  -- Exodus from Egypt to beginning of construction of Solomon's temple	480 yrs	 148 yrs	1012 B.C.
B.C./A.D. -- 1012 B.C. to year 0	1012 yrs.	4160 yrs.	0 AD/BC

	Year 0 to today	1977 yrs.	1977 yrs.	1977 A.D.
	TOTAL YEARS from Creation to today [1977]	6137 yrs.


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## Christsean (Oct 11, 2013)

Don't even get into the bombardier beetle jagbender!!


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## jagbender (Oct 11, 2013)

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.


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## jagbender (Oct 11, 2013)

We've all heard some atheists say that they know the Bible better than most Christians, right?  Just because people say they've read the Bible doesn't mean they really understand it.  Simply said, they can't.  It is impossible to understand what the Bible says and means without being filled with the Holy Spirit.  If you don't believe in Jesus, you don't have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of you, and the Holy Spirit is what directs us in the knowlege of the Bible.

John 16:13;  *When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. *

People who don't believe in God, don't know the context of the Bible, which is a big book with a big picture.  So when they quote a verse without knowing the context, it becomes somewhat garbled and vague in the meaning.  2 Corinthians 4:3-4;  *And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing.  In their case the god of the world (Satan) has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the* gospel* of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.*  They really *can't* help it!

Funny thing about the Bible, it wasn't written for unbelievers, but as a guide for a believers life.  And the Holy Spirit is a Christian's ultimate guide to all truth.


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

it's funny that it always turns into a creation vs evolution debate. #1 even with a billion years random monkey sex doesn't get you Selma Hayek. to think that is just bone head fucking retarded. She is perfection. #2, why haven't we been able to create a new single celled organism in a lab starting from scratch with nothing more than a lab full of chemicals? If the most basic forms of life were created roughly 4 billion years ago spontaneously then the diversity of all life sprang from that (even though there have been 5 events since then that have destroyed 90% of diversity) why can't we take a couple of beakers mix them together in conditions similar to those of 4 billion years ago and create life?


----------



## jagbender (Oct 11, 2013)

Christsean said:


> Don't even get into the bombardier beetle jagbender!!



Bombardier Beetle Defies Evolution - YouTube


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

^^^ shit just got real...


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## jagbender (Oct 11, 2013)

According to infinite probability this will happen.


----------



## Christsean (Oct 11, 2013)

jagbender said:


> Bombardier Beetle Defies Evolution - YouTube



Up!! You went there brother!!


----------



## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> coming from the same rational thinker that believes in Obamacare because everyone deserves healthcare, everyone deserves higher pay, and everyone deserves welfare.



If the government requires you to have car insurance does it means the government pays for it or provides it? NO. You haven't used enough rational thought to even have figured out what Obamacare is yet.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

jagbender said:


> According to infinite probability this will happen.



no matter how many times i put my clothes on refresh this never happens


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## Christsean (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> no matter how many times i put my clothes on refresh this never happens



You better be careful.... Every time you hit refresh you sacrifice a sock!!


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> If the government requires you to have car insurance does it means the government pays for it or provides it? NO. You haven't used enough rational thought to even have figured out what Obamacare is yet.



The commerce clause shows that roads are the responsibility of the federal government. Regardless of a person using the roads they are benefited by them being there. it's in the constitution. health care is a different beast entirely and was never ensured in the constitution. apples and oranges in my opinion.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

jagbender said:


> Bombardier Beetle Defies Evolution - YouTube



Just because they don't understand how it evolved does NOT mean it didn't.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> The commerce clause shows that roads are the responsibility of the federal government. Regardless of a person using the roads they are benefited by them being there. it's in the constitution. health care is a different beast entirely and was never ensured in the constitution. apples and oranges in my opinion.



people want to cry personal responsibility to deny the right to abortion... so why not personal responsibility to provide yourself with health insurance so your medical catastrophe isn't a burden to others?


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## Christsean (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> Just because they don't understand how it evolved does NOT mean it didn't.



It's not that they don't understand how it evolved, it cannot evolve.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

being insured will mean more people get screenings and early intervention in things like cancer. the savings will be phenomenal. i hope it will mean people who smoke and otherwise destroy their own health will have to pay in more. as they should.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

Christsean said:


> It's not that they don't understand how it evolved, it cannot evolve.



that's obviously not true.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

we can't prove whether the chicken or the egg came first therefor an invisible man is responsible... poppycock.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

men believe women squirt and it's not urine. you can make some people believe almost anything.


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## jagbender (Oct 11, 2013)

Christsean said:


> You better be careful.... Every time you hit refresh you sacrifice a sock!!




Is Lint is the cremated remains of lost socks?


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

The Medieval Relic Trade

the church has been full of conmen from day 1. from the first old man that sat by a fire explaining things beyond his primitive brain's comprehension to his children.


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## Intense (Oct 11, 2013)

So much hate itt.








where's azza?


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

i think both sides have so much stake in being right they don't even seek the truth but grasp at anything they think supports their argument. the simple truth is it's a pretty far fetched story...


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## Christsean (Oct 11, 2013)

jagbender said:


> Is Lint is the cremated remains of lost socks?



Oh my goodness.... Finally someone who knows the truth!!! My wife thinks I'm crazy when I tell her that. I lose a good gym sock once a week and there's always the lint that resembles it in color..... Curse you dryer!!


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## Dale Mabry (Oct 11, 2013)

jagbender said:


> Getting back, the evolutionist believes the evolutionary cycle is never ending, but they too cannot explain why according to their Darwin inspired calculations that there has been no new species recorded for hundreds of millions of years, let alone the true 6000 years as reality dictates.
> They also state it takes billions of years for each animal, insect or plant to evolve. If that's true, why do we have termites? Termites eat wood but can't digest it. In their intestines are smaller insects that digest the cellulose the termites place in there for them. Kind of like the worm inside the cricket. The termite can't exist without the smaller insect, and the smaller insect can't live without the termite. If evolution is true neither insect should be on this planet.
> 
> Moving right along we have the big bang theory which declares a spinning dot of absolutely nothing exploded to form all the planets, stars, asteroids, black holes, quasars, nova?s, and primordial soup found on earth. According to the scientific discovery called, ?conservation of angular momentum?, which actually means, if what?s spinning in a clockwise manner explodes, everything flying off of it will explode in the exact same manner. That being the case, why is it 2 planets, and numerous moons orbiting many planets in our galaxy alone spin in a different direction than all the others. If their big bang theory was true, why is it those planets and moons appear to have come off of a different explosion? Were there two big bangs?



Are you for real?  They find new species every day.  Most of them are insects but they find new mammals all the time.  No one states it takes billions of years to evolve, how quickly animals evolve is based on selective pressure, life cycle length, and reproductive rate to name a couple of factors.  New species are likely to be insects or smaller animals as they are very low on the food chain and therefore have greater selective pressure and shorter lifecycles driving natural selection to direct their species to evolveq uicker.  We have no real selective pressure and don't make litters of offspring so we see little to no change, but there is change.

New mammal species discovered: a raccoon-sized critter with teddy bear looks | Fox News

Do I get more points for proving you wrong on evolution or if you say that a Fox News story is fake?

As for the termite, you have the same thing, it's called your gut microbiota.   They form a symbiotic relationship with you. They digest food and produce nutrients that you can't as well as help transport ions in to your bloodstream.  They also make short chained fatty acids that you need for your digestive system to work properly and help keep pathogenic out of your gut.  If you didn't have them you'd die or at the very least never would have made it out of your childhood due to a bacterial infection.  A perfect example is other primates.  They eat primarily fruit and a fews bugs but when you measure their blood more than 60% of their nutrition is fat based.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> If the government requires you to have car insurance does it means the government pays for it or provides it? NO. You haven't used enough rational thought to even have figured out what Obamacare is yet.



your telling me that the gov't is not going be putting ANY money out for healthcare? You are telling me people on welfare are going to have to pay the same high rates that i would have to? NO lol... Enlighten me then since you have your Ph.d in Obamacare give us the cliff notes of how it works, How it is effecting dr's in a positive way. How it will reduce the cost of overall Healthcare...

How many healthcare conferences have you gone to this past year? because let me tell you something healthcare prices are going to SKYROCKET because of Obamacare. Right now orthopaedics has 40,000 billing codes for EVERY possible procedure... We have to get it down to 40... So what that means is we have to group in procedures together at the same billing cost because it makes it simpler for the gov't with billing. What that also means is procedures maybe grouped now in a higher price bracket then they were before. No procedures will be placed in a lower price range but procedures will be priced higher, because dr's can not lose money. Now you may say ooo dr.'s make tons of money since the economy crashed being a medical physician and having a private practice is one of the riskiest jobs you can get into.  

The billing process is also becoming more complicated so additional staff is going to be hired to be able to ensure patients bills are paid on time, which costs more money and which will do what... Raise prices for the patients. Now not all places will be raising prices, but will be reducing the  quality of service. ie number of physical therapy apt's and follow ups that will be allowed. There are tons more things to be considered on the dr's side and health care quality but nothing from it so far is good. 

Also yes Auto insurance is mandatory but the reason why it is so cheap is because it is open across state lines and guess what it is not ran by the gov't... hummmm if i dont like one policy i can call another company and another company. Which you can not really do with medical. I was rated at 300$ a month for a new mustang when I was 21 from progressive... USAA rated me at 80$ with the same insurance. 

Also comparing auto insurance to health care is like apples to oranges, do some critical thinking. The REASON you must have auto insurance is because you are driving on federal financed roads, meaning the state and the federal gov't owns the roads. A state can pass a law tomorrow that says they dont require it on state funded roads and that will be law. See what I am getting here... State decided which is based on the constitution. No where in the constitution says that the federal gov't will dictate the state. You can also drive a NON-Insured care on private owned roads. So forcing care insurance does abide by the constitution. No where says you have to have car insurance or registration... UNLESS your car is on a public road. 

If someone is against insurance they can opt out of owning a car and bike and peddle to work. I know many people who are... However, you can not opt out of health insurance now....

Is it fare for holistic people who believe in natural medicine? which will not be covered under the insurance of Obama care. So basically they pay for this stupid insurance that they will NEVER use.. Then pay still for their Holistic medicine. It takes away their constitutional rights... Now having a healthcare system that does not force but founded by the states would be one thing, but a federal force of healthcare is stupid... I agree we do need improvement of it, but this Obamacare does NOTHING to benefit our country or people


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> people want to cry personal responsibility to deny the right to abortion... so why not personal responsibility to provide yourself with health insurance so your medical catastrophe isn't a burden to others?



um, you are kinda confusing things here. personal responsibility means you accept the consequences of your actions. If a person has a catastrophic health issue and they don't have insurance you and I only have to pay for it when the government steps in and covers it. You are arguing for government to get into the healthcare business. If the gov't wasn't involved we'd not be paying for it.


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Dale Mabry said:


> Are you for real?  They find new species every day.  Most of them are insects but they find new mammals all the time.  No one states it takes billions of years to evolve, how quickly animals evolve is based on selective pressure, life cycle length, and reproductive rate to name a couple of factors.  New species are likely to be insects or smaller animals as they are very low on the food chain and therefore have greater selective pressure and shorter lifecycles driving natural selection to direct their species to evolveq uicker.  We have no real selective pressure and don't make litters of offspring so we see little to no change, but there is change.
> 
> New mammal species discovered: a raccoon-sized critter with teddy bear looks | Fox News
> 
> Do I get more points for proving you wrong on evolution or if you say that a Fox News story is fake?



discovering a new species that has been here all along I don't think was the point, but yes you are correct.


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## Dale Mabry (Oct 11, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> discovering a new species that has been here all along I don't think was the point, but yes you are correct.



You don't honestly believe there hasn't been a new species developed in hundreds of millions of years, do you?  I wouldn't, considering homo sapiens are about 200,000 years old.  Besides, species are categorizations which are a human made construct.  We are the same species but there is quite a bit of variation between us.  I'm not the exact same as my parents and they are not the exact same as theirs.  That's the whole basis of sexual reproduction.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel,

boo hoo for the doctors. sorry but here they earn a ridiculous amount more per procedure than in the rest of the world. 21 graphs that show America?s health-care prices are ludicrous

no one but themselves to blame. you make health care unaffordable and this is the result.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> um, you are kinda confusing things here. personal responsibility means you accept the consequences of your actions. If a person has a catastrophic health issue and they don't have insurance you and I only have to pay for it when the government steps in and covers it. You are arguing for government to get into the healthcare business. If the gov't wasn't involved we'd not be paying for it.



case and point. Because the gov't is funding healthcare it does not mean the overall price of the procedure is going to be reduced. If a non insured person has a 90k bill that the gov't pays we get taxed. Now if an Obamacare person has a 90k bill... We get taxed... So where is the difference, the gov't is not going to have magical money that will pay for healthcare. They will now be responsible for the entire bill now not just what wasnt paid for. Which will actually be more money out of our pockets paying for their healthcare.

also we all know gov't employees are highly overpaid... so now we will be paying additional taxes for them to employ everyone that works under Obamacare.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Name one thing ran by the Gov't that is reliable... Now you may say the military but we follow order from the president so that is out of the question... so name one good gov't funded org that does the job right..

VA
NSA
CIA
FBI
IRS


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> case and point. Because the gov't is funding healthcare it does not mean the overall price of the procedure is going to be reduced. If a non insured person has a 90k bill that the gov't pays we get taxed. Now if an Obamacare person has a 90k bill... We get taxed... So where is the difference, the gov't is not going to have magical money that will pay for healthcare. They will now be responsible for the entire bill now not just what wasnt paid for. Which will actually be more money out of our pockets paying for their healthcare.
> 
> also we all know gov't employees are highly overpaid... so now we will be paying additional taxes for them to employ everyone that works under Obamacare.



do you honestly think taxpayers don't already pay for the uninsured? that all working people can afford a by pass? an abortion is cheaper than the govt raising an unwanted kid... preventative care will also save money. we are going to pay anyway. rather pay the lesser amount.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> jay_steel,
> 
> boo hoo for the doctors. sorry but here they earn a ridiculous amount more per procedure than in the rest of the world. 21 graphs that show America?s health-care prices are ludicrous
> 
> ...


----------



## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> do you honestly think taxpayers don't already pay for the uninsured? that all working people can afford a by pass? an abortion is cheaper than the govt raising an unwanted kid... preventative care will also save money. we are going to pay anyway. rather pay the lesser amount.



how is this a less amount show me data... How does abortion have to do with this... 

Tell me how is it constitutional that the gov't force medical?

answer this question please..

Is it fare for holistic people who believe in natural medicine? which  will not be covered under the insurance of Obama care. So basically they  pay for this stupid insurance that they will NEVER use.. Then pay still  for their Holistic medicine. It takes away their constitutional  rights... Now having a healthcare system that does not force but founded  by the states would be one thing, but a federal force of healthcare is  stupid... I agree we do need improvement of it, but this Obamacare does  NOTHING to benefit our country or people

also in the constitution is states freedom of religion.. There are religions that go against modern day medicine... How can you force someone to be insured if modern medicine is against their religion?


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> do you honestly think taxpayers don't already pay for the uninsured? that all working people can afford a by pass? an abortion is cheaper than the govt raising an unwanted kid... preventative care will also save money. we are going to pay anyway. rather pay the lesser amount.



you trust the gov't WAY to much...


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

my mom would still be alive if her stupid incompetent doctor had done the regular kidney checks he should have done considering the meds she was on. if you ask me they do not get sued enough. how can a doctor not catch cancer before it's end stage?


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> my mom would still be alive if her stupid incompetent doctor had done the regular kidney checks he should have done considering the meds she was on. if you ask me they do not get sued enough. how can a doctor not catch cancer before it's end stage?



you have no clue the amount of times a dr is sued do you.... If it was the dr's fault why did you not sue them? Wrongful death as a result of negligence is a multi million dollar case?


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

here is the problem, we see it ALLOT dr conducts surgery puts it in their notes also patient signs documents stating they want surgery and explains options. Patient gets surgery gets told do not bend this way do this and that... Patient does it any ways and now increases the injury. Comes back dr. says we need additional surgery patient gets pissed gets a lawyer and says they never originally wanted surgery and bla bla bla..

The dr will win this case ANY day of the week. However, lawyer fees are expensive, time away from practice is expensive. Time away from updating files takes away from his or her family. So he settles for 200k. We have had probably 100 law suits in the past two years and none of them were at the fault of the dr. We are also one of the highest end orthopaedic facilities in the US so perfection is what we go for. But 100 law suits thats millions of dollars in two years.

but we all know LW is right because she has experience in everything and a phd in google


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

i didn't sue UPS when a truck hit my daughter or a driver here in town when she hit my son on his scooter. neither my mom nor her friend Joyce sued doctors who were responsible for negligence. not everyone worships money and disregards human compassion and forgiveness.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

my mother didn't sue when her doctor gave her a hysterectomy not knowing she was pregnant either. gross negligence. it's just who she was. she thought the mistake hurt him enough. he was her doctor since she was a young girl.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i didn't sue UPS when a truck hit my daughter or a driver here in town when she hit my son on his scooter. neither my mom nor her friend Joyce sued doctors who were responsible for negligence. not everyone worships money and disregards human compassion and forgiveness.



so a dr who you know is guilty of negligence and deserves a punishment.... You let him get away? Or a irresponsible UPS driver... It is not about money if you do not "worship" money they sue them and put the money into a trust for your children to get an education or donate it to the hungry black kids on welfare. 

proper lawsuits are warranted stupid greedy ones are not, its checks and balances basically by you allowing the dr to get away with that mistake what makes you think he wont do it again?


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## KelJu (Oct 11, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> Jesus was Jewish. What color are Jews?



Many different colors.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> my mother didn't sue when her doctor gave her a hysterectomy not knowing she was pregnant either. gross negligence. it's just who she was. she thought the mistake hurt him enough. he was her doctor since she was a young girl.



case and point... this is one of the reasons why my dad does not go see dr's... so forcing him medical insurance.... hummmm do you think that the dr's a bronze care family that is low income is going to be good? i dont think so... 

but what your stating is that you do not believe in the constitution


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> my mom would still be alive if her stupid incompetent doctor had done the regular kidney checks he should have done considering the meds she was on. if you ask me they do not get sued enough. how can a doctor not catch cancer before it's end stage?



We have the best doctors in the world here in the states and they deserve every penny they can bill for. We want the best paid dr's right here in the states, not the worst paid. medical innovation happens right here in the Unites States because of that. These guys go through 4 years of med school, a year of slavery known as their medical internship, 3 more years of residency, then they are able to take the boards. Up to two more years if they chose to specialize and take a fellowship. So we are talking about 10 years post college before they are able to even earn money practicing their chosen profession. These guys are 30 years old with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt before they can begin their career. By the way if they are a general practitioner, or a hospitalist they are lucky to make 120-150k a year. The problem with healthcare in America has nothing to do with overpaid and incompetent Dr.s. I'm very sorry about your mother. I know how hard cancer can be on an individual and a family, but you are way off base here.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

also another reason why LW is right... on how dr's are greedy. Our facility... You wont believe what they do... They actually donate FULL 100% coverage to ANY athlete in the our area for sports related injuries... College, high school, jr high, and college. They even have a dr at EVERY football game that is non paid to ensure the kids get good treatment... On top of it these greedy dr's TRAVEL with our local college to EVERY sporting game they play for free... people are so money hungry.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

it was my daughter's fault she got hit. she drove right up behind the truck in our parking lot and he started backing up. me and a neighbor saw it and screamed for him to stop. she was not hurt except a scrape on her elbow. my son was not supposed to take his scooter where he was that day and he was more worried about the woman that hit him than anything else because she was crying and freaking out. he was on the sidewalk and she was looking directly into the sun that time of day and didn't see him when she started pulling out. dr gleason had saved my mom's life during a miscarriage years earlier when she was bleeding to death... by the time my aunt uncovered the hospital records that revealed my mom had been pregnant when he did her hysterectomy he was retired. she chose to just let it go. maybe suing everyone just because you can is more of a republican thing.


----------



## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

not to mention one of them actually flew to Thailand during a mission trip saw that reason why drugs were so bad because it was the only way to make money. So he flew out coffee growers to thailand to teach the locals how to make coffee and opened his own coffee company so the locals of thailand can make an honest wage... Fucking greedy SOB...


----------



## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> it was my daughter's fault she got hit. she drove right up behind the truck in our parking lot and he started backing up. me and a neighbor saw it and screamed for him to stop. she was not hurt except a scrape on her elbow. my son was not supposed to take his scooter where he was that day and he was more worried about the woman that hit him than anything else because she was crying and freaking out. he was on the sidewalk and she was looking directly into the sun that time of day and didn't see him when she started pulling out. dr gleason had saved my mom's life during a miscarriage years earlier when she was bleeding to death... by the time my aunt uncovered the hospital records that revealed my mom had been pregnant he was retired. she chose to just let it go. maybe suing everyone just because you can is more of a republican thing.



actually its not... The majority of wrongful suits are lower income people. The same people who slip and fall at wall mart on purpose... One im not a republican I am a independent that focuses on libertarian. Second every republican i know prefers to work hard then try to scheme out free money.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> We have the best doctors in the world here in the states and they deserve every penny they can bill for. We want the best paid dr's right here in the states, not the worst paid. medical innovation happens right here in the Unites States because of that. These guys go through 4 years of med school, a year of slavery known as their medical internship, 3 more years of residency, then they are able to take the boards. Up to two more years if they chose to specialize and take a fellowship. So we are talking about 10 years post college before they are able to even earn money practicing their chosen profession. These guys are 30 years old with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt before they can begin their career. By the way if they are a general practitioner, or a hospitalist they are lucky to make 120-150k a year. The problem with healthcare in America has nothing to do with overpaid and incompetent Dr.s. I'm very sorry about your mother. I know how hard cancer can be on an individual and a family, but you are way off base here.



it seems to me having the very best doctors that no one can afford to go to is a bit off base too.


----------



## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> maybe suing everyone just because you can is more of a republican thing.



maybe being anti constitution is a democrat thing.


----------



## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> it seems to me having the very best doctors that no one can afford to go to is a bit off base too.



who is nobody? i see the best dr's there are.. Maybe its because i worked my ass off to have that privilege. I wasnt born with money, i was actually born to a family with a negative income level each month. My grandparents had to buy our groceries.. So the playing field is equal. If you want good insurance then earn it.


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

its funny to me an article from some fool claiming the Romans invented Jesus Christ to subdue the Jews has us talking about healthcare reform. Regardless of Jesus Christ as God, and I believe he is, whoever came up with this theory is a complete idiot to really think he can make a case.

The Romans if anything were pretty reliable in their methods. When they conquered you they pretty much left you alone as long as you paid your taxes. For those that continued to rebel they crushed you militarily and enslaved you. It was like clockwork for them. And history shows us that is exactly what the Romans did to the Jews ultimately destroying the temple in AD 70. The Romans never went through some elaborate ploy to create a Messiah to subdue a people. It wasn't their way, and nothing in the historical records showed that they used this method, or that anyone used this method ever to subdue a conquered people. Although sometimes conquered people assumed others were Gods which was used against them. 

The ironic thing about this whole scenario as someone pointed out is if roman aristocrats bent on subduing the Jews really invented Christ in order to prevent having to do it militarily then their plan backfired horribly as Rome still had to destroy Jerusalem, the Jews rejected Christ, but eventually the Christian faith overtook and supplanted the Pagan Roman Gods, outlasting the Roman Empire itself and eventually came to canvas the entire world. Pretty impressive for a made up religion that was only made to calm a group of people that have never been large in number, and claim a very small piece of land as their own.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

health care should not be a privilege only the wealthy can afford.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

also i never said that the medical policy is right. All I am saying is Obama care is unconstitutional and should not exist. It enables and does nothing for our economy. I personally dont have an answer to make it better because I am not educated enough to know what will be efficient based off of business and majority. but keeping medical private business is key, but perhaps having programs to insure kids and college students. Then elderly that is retired. If they were to break down the barriers of health insurance the price would drop allot. Give more tax credits to facilities for medical expenses that would be a plus. but there is NO reason a guy who is 32 years old that has had 14 years to make something of him self deserves anything free. Unless he is physically disabled and not able bodied. Also the choice of medical should be based off of state vote. The power should be with in the state not the federal gov't. There is no reason why the federal gov't should have access to my medical records without a proper release of info based on the privacy act of 1974.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> health care should not be a privilege only the wealthy can afford.



I am middle class and i have outstanding medical... 90% of our patients are middle class and they see the best dr's around. We even have tons of low income now I am stereotyping them because of the cars i see in the parking lot and the way people are dressed but its safe to assume we do have lower income patients. 

So that is a blanket statement that is not based on factual evidence...


----------



## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

please answer this though LW do you believe in the Constitution... 

If you do then do you even understand what the Constitution states?


----------



## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> its funny to me an article from some fool claiming the Romans invented Jesus Christ to subdue the Jews has us talking about healthcare reform. Regardless of Jesus Christ as God, and I believe he is, whoever came up with this theory is a complete idiot to really think he can make a case.
> 
> The Romans if anything were pretty reliable in their methods. When they conquered you they pretty much left you alone as long as you paid your taxes. For those that continued to rebel they crushed you militarily and enslaved you. It was like clockwork for them. And history shows us that is exactly what the Romans did to the Jews ultimately destroying the temple in AD 70. The Romans never went through some elaborate ploy to create a Messiah to subdue a people. It wasn't their way, and nothing in the historical records showed that they used this method, or that anyone used this method ever to subdue a conquered people. Although sometimes conquered people assumed others were Gods which was used against them.
> 
> The ironic thing about this whole scenario as someone pointed out is if roman aristocrats bent on subduing the Jews really invented Christ in order to prevent having to do it militarily then their plan backfired horribly as Rome still had to destroy Jerusalem, the Jews rejected Christ, but eventually the Christian faith overtook and supplanted the Pagan Roman Gods, outlasting the Roman Empire itself and eventually came to canvas the entire world. Pretty impressive for a made up religion that was only made to calm a group of people that have never been large in number, and claim a very small piece of land as their own.



hey... basically haters are just hating because Jesus will out bench them out and actually will squat parallel. He will punk you and give you a hug when hes done.


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> it seems to me having the very best doctors that no one can afford to go to is a bit off base too.



My sister is a stay at home mom. her husband is a teacher, and they have 4 kids. They certainly aren't rich. When she was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma she was in Oklahoma, she received treatment at Stanford. The #2 location in the world for her type of cancer. Those dr's deserved every single penny of their pay for her treatment. Healthcare in America is a problem. I won't deny that, but saying no one can afford to go is what's off base in your thinking. These people did not become healers to not treat patients. 

My problem is that I dont believe government interference is going to ensure more people get the treatment my sister did, and it's not going to help the people like your mom who didnt. I wish you could understand that.


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> health care should not be a privilege only the wealthy can afford.



#1 I don't believe it is.
#2 care to show me where in the Constitution the government has a responsibility to ensure it's citizens receive healthcare?


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> please answer this though LW do you believe in the Constitution...
> 
> If you do then do you even understand what the Constitution states?



i do not believe a document written that long ago should be the live and die by bible of modern day America and her modern problems. it's pretty much been bastardized, chewed up, pissed on, spit out, misinterpreted, and sodomized since it was written.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> care to show me where in the Constitution the government has a responsibility to ensure it's citizens receive healthcare?



do you not find that statement repulsive?


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i do not believe a document written that long ago should be the live and die by bible of modern day America and her modern problems. it's pretty much been bastardized, chewed up, pissed on, spit out, misinterpreted, and sodomized since it was written.



have you read the constitution? you do realize it protects the US Citizen from a tyranny gov't and prevents us from being controlled.... Maybe it is to complex for you to understand but it is actually in your favour. It also protects our Bill of Rights as well.. The people honestly doing the spitting on it is the democrats. 

please provide some contexts on how the Constitution is invalid with today society. 

I know you believe that the government should control the people.. But what else makes it invalid with todays society. Should we not have the freedom of speech, the freedom of trial, right to bear arms, protection of illegal search and seizure.. If anything i believe it is more important to abide by the Constitution today then ever.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

seriously, you need to stop believing that piece of parchment protects you from anything because it doesn't. it doesn't rein in govt control or corruption. it never has. we are being spied on, cops break down our door, stop and frisk us on the streets for No reason... please don't tell me this document is protecting shit. it isn't.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> do you not find that statement repulsive?



it is not a federal responsibility for healthcare... its a state responsibility. If something needs to be changed in the constitution because it is outdated it needs to be voted on not ignored. If the federal gov't needs to take control of health care a vote should take place to ratify the constitution. Not just because you voted for a president but a separate vote from the people based on majority to make a change to the constitution. The gov't disregarding the constitution is not right and as a democracy the power should be in the people not the federal gov't... what you are basically saying is you are unable to care for your self and need the gov't to take control./


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

if a cop stops you now he has the right to go through your phone. how the FUCK are we protected? if you really think we have any of those rights you just haven't had your cherry busted yet.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> seriously, you need to stop believing that piece of parchment protects you from anything because it doesn't. it doesn't rein in govt control or corruption. it never has. we are being spied on, cops break down our door, stop and frisk us on the streets for No reason... please don't tell me this document is protecting shit. it isn't.



because people allow it to happen. Cop breaks into my door with out a warrant he and his superiors will find them selves on suspension fast. A cop illegally searches me the same thing. Cops are swarn to uphold the constitution if they do not then they need to be punished for not upholding the commitment. The problem is people are weak and allow them selves to be walked on. Edward Snowden put his life at risk to warn the people. If people sit here and do jack shit yes it will happen. I have NEVER had my civil rights violated and I have refused a cop into my house multiple times when i was younger throwing parties. He had complaints of loud music asked to come in, I said I will turn the music down and that is all but I will not allow you to search my home based off the constitution. If you have probably cause i have no problem letting you in but if it is based off of opinion that i would like to see a warrant.  

I went through a check point and refused a breathalyser and they had to let me go and also refused a mobile check point for vehicle smog. Told them both it has to be volunteering and I have not been drinking or I will not allow my car to be smogged. I did get a letter in the mail saying my smog date got pushed forward though but people allow this to happen. They do not know their rights.


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> do you not find that statement repulsive?



NOT AT ALL. I don't believe in gov't over reach and neither do you. There are things the gov't is good at and things it isn't, those things should be left to the people. Every year I march for and solicit donations for breast cancer research. I do that because it's something I believe in, and it's something I think private organizations can do better than the gov't can. So we should

You and I want the same thing LW. We both want better healthcare for ourselves and our loved ones. Where we disagree is the belief that Obamacare can get us there. For whatever reason you believe it can. I'll tell you this though, my belief that Obamacare is not the solution is not based upon political party ideologue. It's based upon the fact that i've spent my entire career in healthcare. I know some super intelligent people in the industry. National Leaders, none of them feel Obamacare is the answer. That is what i've based my belief on.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> if a cop stops you now he has the right to go through your phone. how the FUCK are we protected? if you really think we have any of those rights you just haven't had your cherry busted yet.



he has no right to go through your phone lol... the police officer has NO right to ask you any questions that has no relations to the stop. If he does you do not have to answer them. A simple reply of I prefer to speak with my lawyer if you want me to answer any additional questions not regarding the traffic stop. If your stopped for your cell phone, you say no, this is considered PII and I would like to speak with a lawyer if you continue to insist. The problem is people get punked by cops.. Be respectful dont resist them but know your rights.


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> seriously, you need to stop believing that piece of parchment protects you from anything because it doesn't. it doesn't rein in govt control or corruption. it never has. we are being spied on, cops break down our door, stop and frisk us on the streets for No reason... please don't tell me this document is protecting shit. it isn't.



it's this attitude that allows the government to walk all over our rights. And I know you believe just as strongly as I do that we need to fight back against government over reach


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

i don't believe in god and think all religion is a man made crock of shit... i do believe in love one another and look out for each other. simple as that. i have to pay to feed pedophiles and keep them alive and cozy in prison... i don't like it but it's how it is. at least keeping Americans healthy that HAVEN'T fucked a baby in the ass is a good thing.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i don't believe in god and think all religion is a man made crock of shit... i do believe in love one another and look out for each other. simple as that. i have to pay to feed pedophiles and keep them alive and cozy in prison... i don't like it but it's how it is. at least keeping Americans healthy that HAVEN'T fucked a baby in the ass is a good thing.



this has NOTHING to do with the constitution. You realize with the constitution the gov't can put out if your not Christian you will be killed and that will be lawful. What you state has NOTHING to do with the constitution.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

you realize that's preposterous i hope. esp with a democrat in office.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> this has NOTHING to do with the constitution. You realize with the constitution the gov't can put out if your not Christian you will be killed and that will be lawful. What you state has NOTHING to do with the constitution.



You also realise the the Constitution is not a document that is based off of religion. It states the word Lord once in a general reference of the year.  Because in the past it was common to state after the year of our lord instead of saying AD

 "Seventeenth Day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America."

No where in the constitution does it dictate bible, certain religions and ect. Maybe you should educate your self more on something instead of just doing google searches to find opinionated answers. You call me blinded by the media but if you rationalize your opinion of the Constitution based off of that answer then I am sorry you are extremely uneducated and misguided.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> you realize that's preposterous i hope. esp with a democrat in office.



you do not understand the point the fact it, it is still possible and it does not matter what party they are it matters of their views. Look at socialist Russia not to long ago if you opposed their gov't you were killed. Do you even know why the constitution was ratified or the significance of it? How power those signatures actually are? People were killed for not obeying the monarchies religion and being puritans. They were taxed unfair and forced into a belief system. 

with out the constitution we are not protected period. If they took out freedom of religion... Legally they can do ANY thing they want.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)




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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

so today the fight is for good health for all so tomorrow the thought police can kill them? ooookay.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> you realize that's preposterous i hope. esp with a democrat in office.



you also state this with the premise that a democrat will all ways be in office for forever. 

Here is the problem and something you should actually FEAR alot being a Democrat. Lets say Jeb gets into office another Bush and is influenced but good ol George for decisions. Do you realized the power what we just gave him with medical... You realize what he can do with that now? If you think Obama is the only one willing to go over congress wait until we get a President that that you think has bad intentions. Now the gov't has full control of healthcare... Look at the power in which we just granted them. We took it out of the hands of the people and placed our medical in the hands of the gov't. 

A gov't who cant even pay our military right now. A gov;t that takes over a year to process paper work for blown up soldiers to get care and disability.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> so today the fight is for good health for all so tomorrow the thought police can kill them? ooookay.



you dont answer any questions period... you just come back with more uneducated spills of nonsense... 

So you believe that people should be controlled in decision making by the gov't


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> You also realise the the Constitution is not a document that is based off of religion. It states the word Lord once in a general reference of the year.  Because in the past it was common to state after the year of our lord instead of saying AD
> 
> "Seventeenth Day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America."
> 
> No where in the constitution does it dictate bible, certain religions and ect. Maybe you should educate your self more on something instead of just doing google searches to find opinionated answers. You call me blinded by the media but if you rationalize your opinion of the Constitution based off of that answer then I am sorry you are extremely uneducated and misguided.




do you honestly think the wall of separation between church and state is the only thing keeping people here from being exterminated due to their religious views or lack thereof?


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

sorry, i'm a realist not an alarmist.


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i don't believe in god and think all religion is a man made crock of shit... i do believe in love one another and look out for each other. simple as that. i have to pay to feed pedophiles and keep them alive and cozy in prison... i don't like it but it's how it is. at least keeping Americans healthy that HAVEN'T fucked a baby in the ass is a good thing.



again nice sentiment. I think. The problem is Obamacare doesn't provide better healthcare. The level of healthcare provided here in the United States will not go up with Obamacare, but will go down. problem is when the people figure that out it will be too late to do anything about it because it will the established, and shitty system


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> you dont answer any questions period... you just come back with more uneducated spills of nonsense...
> 
> So you believe that people should be controlled in decision making by the gov't



if the govt didn't have this control i'd be smoking some opium right now.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

i could probably increase my income by quite a lot of i put a shingle outside my apt. offering handjobs for $250 buck a whack. freedom my ass.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

those pesky decision influencers.


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> sorry, i'm a realist not an alarmist.



How are you a realist? Saying Obamacare will provide better healthcare for Americans doesn't make it so. You've given no evidence for that. And why the hell are you arguing for it so forcefully in a thread about the validity of the existence of the man Jesus Christ?


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i could probably increase my income by quite a lot of i put a shingle outside my apt. offering handjobs for $250 buck a whack. freedom my ass.



You must give the most amazing handjobs ever for that price


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> if the govt didn't have this control i'd be smoking some opium right now.



What is stopping you exactly?


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> How are you a realist? Saying Obamacare will provide better healthcare for Americans doesn't make it so. You've given no evidence for that. And why the hell are you arguing for it so forcefully in a thread about the validity of the existence of the man Jesus Christ?



i think Jesus would like the idea. heal the sick.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> if the govt didn't have this control i'd be smoking some opium right now.



so you would be smoking opium while conducting a child care job? sounds like a good facility to me.

you are not a realist... A realist is a Libertarian... You are a conformist... If you see something wrong and you feel like its to late you conform... Just like the police statement, not understanding your rights (you stated cops can search your cell phones if they want) and also resorting to what should be the last of all last resorts the gov't taking over health care... A realist would never want the gov't dictating anything they would want complete decision making of their lives. What you portray by your statements is that you have no control of your life or to better your quality of life, that you need the gov't to step in because you can not manage life tasks. 

WHich is the only reason why the gov't should ever step in, is when things get SOOOO bad that you can no longer function and make decisions to function. They should have tried other avenues before giving our rights of medical away to improve. 

A realist wants control of EVERY decision in life they make and are offended when they are infringed upon. You my friend are a conformist if it did not work for you, then you conform with the rest of the people who want to fail.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i could probably increase my income by quite a lot of i put a shingle outside my apt. offering handjobs for $250 buck a whack. freedom my ass.



how when the asians do it for 20$


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> What is stopping you exactly?



the man.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i think Jesus would like the idea. heal the sick.



he would which is why it should be a state and community matter not a federal gov't. Also my Church funds alot of medical procedures for members and non members of my Church who cant afford it. I guess were just a bunch of greedy Christians.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> how when the asians do it for 20$



apparently Americans are dumb enough to pay grossly inflated prices for the same exact services.


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i think Jesus would like the idea. heal the sick.



Again, I don't think Obamacare is going to do that better than we have now, and in many cases will hurt. I also think we can and should do more as individuals to ensure the sick get healed than relying on government to do things for us. You bluster so forcefully about this issue, but you do nothing other than argue rhetoric. why?


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> the man.



Not at all. you could easily go to the corner and give a dude one of your super amazing and totally worth it $250 hand jobs, get your opium, take it home, smoke it, and not have any interference from the man


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> he would which is why it should be a state and community matter not a federal gov't. Also my Church funds alot of medical procedures for members and non members of my Church who cant afford it. I guess were just a bunch of greedy Christians.



Where Police Can & Can't Snoop Through Your Phone [Interactive Map] - Forbes

some areas of the USA are too poor to provide for their own even when the want is there to do so.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> Again, I don't think Obamacare is going to do that better than we have now, and in many cases will hurt. I also think we can and should do more as individuals to ensure the sick get healed than relying on government to do things for us. You bluster so forcefully about this issue, but you do nothing other than argue rhetoric. why?



because in her mind all Obamacare is free healthcare for people. But it is not... It is not free for anyone... People may receive healthcare insurance for freebased off of low income but it only covers 60% and a 12,000 deductible with huge co pays. The only thing it does it puts into law so the federal gov't can suck more money out of us. You really think the increase in taxes we pay based on this bill will go to health care... FUCK no its going to go line the pockets of politicians. 

When has ever a politician accomplished something without an agenda to get richer or more powerful? This has nothing to with the people its a smoke screen to make people think they are doing something right so they can slip all these other laws to raise taxes without use knowing.

It just proves how uneducated America is. Romney should have never been picked to run and Obama should never have been president. Ron Paul should have ran and one and we should bring economists into the office to plan a budget not politicians.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> Again, I don't think Obamacare is going to do that better than we have now, and in many cases will hurt. I also think we can and should do more as individuals to ensure the sick get healed than relying on government to do things for us. You bluster so forcefully about this issue, but you do nothing other than argue rhetoric. why?



i think it's COMPLETE bullshit that the people saying health care is not a right give a rats ass who goes without it. it's not a generous person those feeling spring from.


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> apparently Americans are dumb enough to pay grossly inflated prices for the same exact services.



they are not grossly inflated and you can't compare a procedure here to one in the UK as apples to apples for a myriad of reasons the first being that it is a ridiculous oversimplification that doesn't accurately show what you think it does


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> because in her mind all Obamacare is free healthcare for people. But it is not... It is not free for anyone... People may receive healthcare insurance for freebased off of low income but it only covers 60% and a 12,000 deductible with huge co pays. The only thing it does it puts into law so the federal gov't can suck more money out of us. You really think the increase in taxes we pay based on this bill will go to health care... FUCK no its going to go line the pockets of politicians.
> 
> When has ever a politician accomplished something without an agenda to get richer or more powerful? This has nothing to with the people its a smoke screen to make people think they are doing something right so they can slip all these other laws to raise taxes without use knowing.
> 
> It just proves how uneducated America is. Romney should have never been picked to run and Obama should never have been president. Ron Paul should have ran and one and we should bring economists into the office to plan a budget not politicians.



jfc. are you listening???? it's not free healthcare. it's people buying insurance so hc is affordable for more people.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> they are not grossly inflated and you can't compare a procedure here to one in the UK as apples to apples for a myriad of reasons the first being that it is a ridiculous oversimplification that doesn't accurately show what you think it does



we pay a shit ton more here than in Canada for the EXACT same meds. EXACT.


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i think it's COMPLETE bullshit that the people saying health care is not a right give a rats ass who goes without it. it's not a generous person those feeling spring from.



And you are full of bullshit then. I don't believe that healthcare is a right yet i'll put my donations to help those receive healthcare next to anyones


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> Where Police Can & Can't Snoop Through Your Phone [Interactive Map] - Forbes
> 
> some areas of the USA are too poor to provide for their own even when the want is there to do so.



searched when your Arrested lol... EVERY thing that you have is able to search if your arrested... Good try on that one... If your arrested then you are guilty of a crime which means the cops have COMPLETE jurisdiction to search everything on person for their protection and prosecution. 

Also everyone is able to get a public defender. If the cop choices to force you to court then you are able to get a public defender. 

PLEASE again stop googling shit that you have no clue about.... I had a huge talk about this same shit with my buddy who is a cop because my car is not street legal and he told me not to let the cop do shit and ask for a lawyer unless he has probable cause to search my car. If the violation has nothing to do with what engine i have in my car he has no right to search it with out a warrant.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> jfc. are you listening???? it's not free healthcare. it's people buying insurance so hc is affordable for more people.



ok what about people who cant afford to pay for the bronze package and forcing them to have healthcare takes food away from their familys?


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> we pay a shit ton more here than in Canada for the EXACT same meds. EXACT.



again. not apples to apples as Canada has a national healthcare system. Oh yeah, in case you were wondering Canadians don't receive the same level of healthcare. Private healthcare organizations are popping up all over canada that citizens pay extra for so that they can receive better and faster treatment. Also, the ones who can afford it come to the United States still for care. Would you like to comment? I speak to healthcare providers in Canada all the time LW. I can't tell you how many of them have told me we made a mistake with Obamacare.

Im continually giving you real world examples of why you should believe me. Why won't you listen?


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> i think it's COMPLETE bullshit that the people saying health care is not a right give a rats ass who goes without it. it's not a generous person those feeling spring from.



it is not a right period... no where in any law states its a right legally so there for it is not a right. It is a right to bear arms, a right for a speedy trial.. Those are rights...

So you believe the drug addict killing him self off of heroine robbing people for his addiction has the same right to medical that people working hard does? I dont think so.You live in a fantasy world.


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> jfc. are you listening???? it's not free healthcare. it's people buying insurance so hc is affordable for more people.



What do you think happens when more people go after a limited resource? Trust me, healthcare is a limited resource


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## bio-chem (Oct 11, 2013)

Sorry to the original poster that your thread got this badly hijacked. Even the 2 pages on creationism vs evolution was more relevant than this


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> we pay a shit ton more here than in Canada for the EXACT same meds. EXACT.



you do realize that drugs have nothing to do with insurance right. It is because of lobbyist and people controlling the market. Medication is not going to go down with Obama care. Medicine needs to go down, but the federal gov't can not force a business to reduce to price of drugs. Please go read the healthcare package and understand it more.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> Sorry to the original poster that your thread got this badly hijacked. Even the 2 pages on creationism vs evolution was more relevant than this



it has everything to do with it...

It shows how much people are devolving in intelligence. Idiocracy is in effect.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

well my side won already. it's the law of the land, declared constitutional, the ball is in motion. we shall see if it destroys the USA.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> well my side won already. it's the law of the land, declared constitutional, the ball is in motion. we shall see if it destroys the USA.



Your right your side did win... The Gov't... my side lost... The People


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> you do realize that drugs have nothing to do with insurance right. It is because of lobbyist and people controlling the market. Medication is not going to go down with Obama care. Medicine needs to go down, but the federal gov't can not force a business to reduce to price of drugs. Please go read the healthcare package and understand it more.



tell that to a person who can only afford their meds because of their insurance.


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## BigKevKris (Oct 11, 2013)

LOL...your side won.....hilarious....what exactly did "your side" win?


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

but you never answered me this... 

How is it justified to make some one pay from traditional medicine if they will not use it because it is against their beliefs. If their belief is holistic medicine and natural medicine no one can ever force them to use it, but how it if far for the gov't to force them to pay for it?


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> again. not apples to apples as Canada has a national healthcare system. Oh yeah, in case you were wondering Canadians don't receive the same level of healthcare. Private healthcare organizations are popping up all over canada that citizens pay extra for so that they can receive better and faster treatment. Also, the ones who can afford it come to the United States still for care. Would you like to comment? I speak to healthcare providers in Canada all the time LW. I can't tell you how many of them have told me we made a mistake with Obamacare.
> 
> Im continually giving you real world examples of why you should believe me. Why won't you listen?



Sergio lives in Canada. I'm completely aware of how things are there. There is a waiting list if your problems aren't dire but you get fast care when they are.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> tell that to a person who can only afford their meds because of their insurance.



it just shows how ignorant people are if they think drugs are expensive because of insurance lol. prescription drugs in Canada are much cheaper with no prescription then they are here. Its because of market. They charge a higher rate and take advantage of insurance companies..

Again this statement is fucking stupid... Because the bronze package of Obama care doesnt cover shit for prescriptions lol. What you fail to realize is its not going to save people money it just FORCES people to pay the gov't.... WHY CANT YOU UNDERSTAND!!


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> but you never answered me this...
> 
> How is it justified to make some one pay from traditional medicine if they will not use it because it is against their beliefs. If their belief is holistic medicine and natural medicine no one can ever force them to use it, but how it if far for the gov't to force them to pay for it?



why do people without kids pay taxes for schools? the housebound pay for roads? people that don't eat meat pay taxes to have meat inspected.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> Sergio lives in Canada. I'm completely aware of how things are there. There is a waiting list if your problems aren't dire but you get fast care when they are.



they also base treatment off of age which is why many Canadians cross over to the US for major surgeries.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> why do people without kids pay taxes for schools? the housebound pay for roads? people that don't eat meat pay taxes to have meat inspected.



But it does not force them to have it... It is a difference to pay taxes... They are paying for insurance... There is a difference between a 20$ tax increase to cover obama care then a 300 dollar forced payment for insurance coverage.... Again apples to oranges...


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> why do people without kids pay taxes for schools? the housebound pay for roads? people that don't eat meat pay taxes to have meat inspected.



those are also county taxes for roads and schools not all counties pay taxes for schools... that is something that is state ran and country driven... Again not federal law


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> it just shows how ignorant people are if they think drugs are expensive because of insurance lol. prescription drugs in Canada are much cheaper with no prescription then they are here. Its because of market. They charge a higher rate and take advantage of insurance companies..
> 
> Again this statement is fucking stupid... Because the bronze package of Obama care doesnt cover shit for prescriptions lol. What you fail to realize is its not going to save people money it just FORCES people to pay the gov't.... WHY CANT YOU UNDERSTAND!!



you have the right to buy a better plan.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> you have the right to buy a better plan.



ok so you really think the poor is going to be able to pay for the silver package which only covers 70% which is MUCH more expensive when the ONLY good package there is which is the gold package which covers 90 that I cant even afford and my house hold pulls over a 100k

have you read how ridiculous the out of pocket expenses are with this? What research have you done? 

The only thing this bill does is force people to buy into gov't insurance


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

For me to have the Silver plan for my wife and I it would be 12,000$ a year i just applied for it based on their est calc. FUCK THAT!!!


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

well time to hit the gym... done waiting for you to google some thing else.


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## jay_steel (Oct 11, 2013)

and keep it back on topic I Invite you all to my Church on sunday... If your not where I live which im not disclosing you can PM me and i will send you the pod cast  God Bless you all.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

In 2014, the fine to remain uninsured is $95 per person (up to a family  maximum of $285, or 1 percent of family income, whichever is greater).


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

*Who is eligible for such exemptions?*
You can be exempted  from the requirement to buy health insurance ? and hence, from the  penalty ? if you meet one of the following requirements:
?You are uninsured for less than three months of the year.
?You live illegally in the United States.
?You?re incarcerated, and not awaiting disposition.
?You?re a member of a recognized Indian tribe.
?Your income is officially deemed too low.
?The lowest-priced converge would cost more than 8 percent of your household income.
?You?re a member of a recognized religious sect with religious objections to insurance, including Social Security and Medicare.
?You?re a member of a recognized health-sharing ministry. (Note: Christian Scientists do not currently qualify for the exemption.) 
Healthcare.gov also provides a list of hardship exemptions that qualify an individual for exemption.
This flow chart from the Kaiser Family Foundation might help you determine if you need to buy health insurance. * 

The Religious Alternative To Obamacare's Individual Mandate : NPR

*not hard to find a loophole.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> and keep it back on topic I Invite you all to my Church on sunday... If your not where I live which im not disclosing you can PM me and i will send you the pod cast  God Bless you all.



your church might be interested in the medical co op exemption.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> For me to have the Silver plan for my wife and I it would be 12,000$ a year i just applied for it based on their est calc. FUCK THAT!!!



if, God forbid, one of you is struck by a catastrophic illness I fear $12,000 will seem like chicken feed. you're looking at 2 grand a day there JUST for hospital room.


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## Little Wing (Oct 11, 2013)




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## LAM (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> ok so you really think the poor is going to be able to pay for the silver package which only covers 70% which is MUCH more expensive when the ONLY good package there is which is the gold package which covers 90 that I cant even afford and my house hold pulls over a 100k
> 
> have you read how ridiculous the out of pocket expenses are with this? What research have you done?
> 
> The only thing this bill does is force people to buy into gov't insurance



you mean like all of us small business owners are required to carry like liability, workers compensation, errors and omissions, etc.?


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## LAM (Oct 11, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> you do realize that drugs have nothing to do with insurance right. It is because of lobbyist and people controlling the market. Medication is not going to go down with Obama care. Medicine needs to go down, but the federal gov't can not force a business to reduce to price of drugs. Please go read the healthcare package and understand it more.



no but what the could do is allow people to openly buy drugs from Canada, which we can not.  that would help to put downward pressure on prices.

they have done it with wages in various sectors of the workforce, but they have no high powered special interest groups, lobbyists or PAC's and that's the only difference.


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## Christsean (Oct 11, 2013)

So did we ever determine if Jesus was real or if he supports Obama Care????


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## Curt James (Oct 11, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> SheriV, please tell me you are not confusing the *Pagan Roman Empire *of the time of Christ (which I was clearly referring, as that is the obvious time period we are discussing if Aristocrats were to invent the Christian Religion as this theory states) to the Holy Roman Empire that sent the crusades over a thousand years later? Surely you are smarter than that? Pull out an 8th Grade history book and educate yourself a bit with the required reading before you step into a conversation you are clearly not prepared for.



B-b-but you didn't *SAY *Pagan Roman Empire!

Jesus is so going to kill you.


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## Curt James (Oct 11, 2013)

LAM said:


> no but what the could do is allow people to openly buy drugs from Canada, which we can not.  that would help to put downward pressure on prices.
> 
> they have done it with wages in various sectors of the workforce, but they have no high powered special interest groups, lobbyists or PAC's and that's the only difference.



What does _Jesus _have to say about the GDP?


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## LAM (Oct 11, 2013)

Curt James said:


> What does _Jesus _have to say about the GDP?



it's sluggish growth from now on people, the party is over in the US.


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## the_predator (Oct 11, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> if, *God forbid*, one of you is struck by a catastrophic illness I fear $12,000 will seem like chicken feed. you're looking at 2 grand a day there JUST for hospital room.


^Im sorry, I'm a bit confused. Do you believe in God or not, because in the post after this one you made a "funny with cats" post about Jesus not existing, yet you clearly refer to God in the above post?


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## bio-chem (Oct 12, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> well my side won already. it's the law of the land, declared constitutional, the ball is in motion. we shall see if it destroys the USA.



It was declared constitutional because it is a tax and the gov't has the right to levy taxes. Aren't you the one complaining about how we are overtaxed, and the government needs to leave us alone?


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## bio-chem (Oct 12, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> Sergio lives in Canada. I'm completely aware of how things are there. There is a waiting list if your problems aren't dire but you get fast care when they are.



You are ok with this? WTF is wrong with you? You are complaining about how your mother died due to poor medical care here in the states, but you are ok with waiting lists when things are deemed not dire? you know how easy it is to rule something as not dire when it really is dire. Lets say you need a reconstruction on your knee. Well guess what, it's not dire so get on the waiting list. never mind the fact that here in the states you could have the surgery and be done with rehab and back on your feet back to work here in the states while in Canada you are simply put on the waiting list because it's not dire. Tell that to the man who needs the surgery to get back to work so he can feed his family. disability only lasts so long LW. You are supporting something that is so fraught with obvious problems, and is so dangerous to an already broken system and you are doing it by blinding yourself to the blatant problems. How many negative examples do you need?


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## Little Wing (Oct 12, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> It was declared constitutional because it is a tax and the gov't has the right to levy taxes. Aren't you the one complaining about how we are overtaxed, and the government needs to leave us alone?



no, i'm the one saying i don't mind paying to feed a hungry kid as much as i mind paying for the pentagon to own over 200 golf courses.


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## Little Wing (Oct 12, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> You are ok with this? WTF is wrong with you? You are complaining about how your mother died due to poor medical care here in the states, but you are ok with waiting lists when things are deemed not dire? you know how easy it is to rule something as not dire when it really is dire. Lets say you need a reconstruction on your knee. Well guess what, it's not dire so get on the waiting list. never mind the fact that here in the states you could have the surgery and be done with rehab and back on your feet back to work here in the states while in Canada you are simply put on the waiting list because it's not dire. Tell that to the man who needs the surgery to get back to work so he can feed his family. disability only lasts so long LW. You are supporting something that is so fraught with obvious problems, and is so dangerous to an already broken system and you are doing it by blinding yourself to the blatant problems. How many negative examples do you need?



do you honestly think here if you need knee surgery and don't have cash to pay or your insurance doesn't want to pay you just get knee surgery? no, you get run through a few YEARS of trying shit that doesn't work and leaves you in agony to try and save money before they even consider surgery. after you're addicted to oxys then taken off them cuz you're an addict and made to try more futile bullshit and are about ready to shoot yourself you get surgery. because your health is nothing compared to saving a few bucks.


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## Little Wing (Oct 12, 2013)

the_predator said:


> ^Im sorry, I'm a bit confused. Do you believe in God or not, because in the post after this one you made a "funny with cats" post about Jesus not existing, yet you clearly refer to God in the above post?



god as in whatever forces drive the malevolent little tides of time.


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## Little Wing (Oct 12, 2013)

Have you heard that the health care in canada is so bad no one lives past age 50? 

neither have i. 

List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

canada 82 
usa 79


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## Little Wing (Oct 12, 2013)

for having the best doctors on the planet we sure have a lot of countries keeping their people alive longer.


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## dave 236 (Oct 12, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> no, i'm the one saying i don't mind paying to feed a hungry kid as much as i mind paying for the pentagon to own over 200 golf courses.



I heard a statement from Dennis Miller that perfectly sums up the way i feel about these things. Sort of a paraphrase but basically " I want to give the hopeless and helpless more than they expect but the useless and the worthless; i just don't care about." May sound harsh but we have a large population here confusing the system because they're useless pretending  to be helpless.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## dave 236 (Oct 12, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> for having the best doctors on the planet we sure have a lot of countries keeping their people alive longer.



People in canada are generally very happy with their healthcare system. There will always be those with enough money that will come here and pay for expedited surgery by the best trained specialists they can buy. Life expectancy ( and infant mortality, they go hand in hand) are poor ways to measure health care effectiveness for several reasons, not the least of which is a lack of standardized reporting among countries to the WHO. If repirting were standardized our stats wouldn't get any better mind you, other countries would just fare worse in comparison. We'd be much more in the middle of the pack in most categories then. Still a shame for the $ we spend but not nearly as bad as it looks now. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## LAM (Oct 12, 2013)

dave 236 said:


> May sound harsh but we have a large population here confusing the system because they're useless pretending  to be helpless.



the problem is much bigger, if all the bullshit "fake" jobs in the US were ended tomorrow unemployment in the US would be about 30-40%.  then there would really be a HUGE increase in the size of the US for profit prison system, as that's were the US puts it's excess and unwanted population, Chomsky calls it the "superfluous" population.

consumerism combined with low wage neo-liberal policy is one big failure for building a sustainable society/economic model but a high profit making scam for large firms and worthless financiers.


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## dave 236 (Oct 12, 2013)

^^^ and the for profit welfare system that props up a failing economy. Fiat currency etc. U cannot disagree with any of this but i maintain that if people wouldn't have been so ready to take the seemingly free aid that was offered ro prevent the smallest experience of discomfort the problem wouldn't be as big as it has become. Frankly it's now a beast that cannot be fed!  

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## SheriV (Oct 12, 2013)

well this took a strange turn


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## LAM (Oct 12, 2013)

dave 236 said:


> ^^^ and the for profit welfare system that props up a failing economy. Fiat currency etc. U cannot disagree with any of this but i maintain that if people wouldn't have been so ready to take the seemingly free aid that was offered ro prevent the smallest experience of discomfort the problem wouldn't be as big as it has become. Frankly it's now a beast that cannot be fed!
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2



well when the annual savings rate for the lower 2 income quintiles is less than .1% a year what other option is there when there is no savings?  that's what happens when people are paid poverty wages, they teeter on the edge and fall in and out depending on the slightest changes in macro policy.


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## dave 236 (Oct 12, 2013)

SheriV said:


> well this took a strange turn



Lol Sorry. Didn't intend a hijacking. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## dave 236 (Oct 12, 2013)

LAM said:


> well when the annual savings rate for the lower 2 income quintiles is less than .1% a year what other option is there when there is no savings?  that's what happens when people are paid poverty wages, they teeter on the edge and fall in and out depending on the slightest changes in macro policy.



Im certainly not disagreeing. This is why i rarely get into these discussions. Its more than slightly depressing to realize that there are no easy answers if there are any at all to stem the hemorrhage. People have to make it happen and not politicians.  I've just lost faith in both. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## SheriV (Oct 12, 2013)

^^ agreed

and I'm not the thread police. Decent threads usually evolve completely out of context and that should be encouraged. Keeps things interesting
I only checked in to see if anyone caught that I was being a patronizing jerk yet


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## Little Wing (Oct 12, 2013)

i saw some very appropriate invisible text in this thread about the existence of invisible men.


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## Bowden (Oct 12, 2013)

jagbender said:


> Rocks Contain Evidence of a Worldwide Deluge  




So what is your point?
World wide evidence of a great flood does not validate the christian bible or gives proof that there was a  Jesus.
The myth of a great flood is much older than the christian bible.
Writers of the bible adapted it from earlier middle eastern religions.
In example the Sumerian great flood myth.

Eridu -- Ancient History Encyclopedia

The _Eridu Genesis_ (composed c. 2300 BCE) is the earliest description of the Great Flood, pre-dating the Biblical book of Genesis,

[SIZE=-1]The [/SIZE]*Eridu Genesis* is written on a Sumerian cuneiform tablet of which about two thirds are now lost. The missing parts can be reconstructed from texts like the Sumerian King List and Berossus:


 the kings who ruled before the Great Flood (lost)
the supreme god Enlil's decision to destroy sinful humankind (lost);
Ziusudra learns of the approaching calamity;
building of the Ark (lost);
 the Great Flood;


*The Flood*

*[132']* All the evil winds, all stormy winds gathered into
     one and with them, them, the Flood was sweeping 
over the cities of the half-bushel baskets, for seven days and seven nights. After the flood had swept over the country,
     after the evil wind had tossed the big boat about on the great waters,
     the sun came out spreading light over heaven and earth. 


Flood Stories from Around the World

Sumerian: The gods had decided to destroy mankind. The god Enlil warned the priest-king Ziusudra ("Long of Life") of the coming flood by speaking to a wall while Ziusudra listened at the side. He was instructed to build a great ship and carry beasts and birds upon it. Violent winds came, and a flood of rain covered the earth for seven days and nights. Then Ziusudra opened a window in the large boat, allowing sunlight to enter, and he prostrated himself before the sun-god Utu. After landing, he sacrificed a sheep and an ox and bowed before Anu and Enlil. For protecting the animals and the seed of mankind, he was granted eternal life and taken to the country of Dilmun, where the sun rises. [Hammerly-Dupuy, p. 56; Heidel, pp. 102-106]


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## SheriV (Oct 12, 2013)

yeah. I mentioned this earlier in this thread. Even Native American cultures have great flood stories.... I always thought it was kinda cool that it was a recurring story worldwide.


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## heckler7 (Oct 12, 2013)

how did religion turn to politics? separation of church and state people


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## Arnold (Oct 12, 2013)

Last I remember the US was founded on the separation of church and state and the freedom to hold whatever religious beliefs u want. There should be NO connection between the government and ANY religion!


www.IronMagLabs.com


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## theCaptn' (Oct 12, 2013)

Gheyest thread ever. On behalf of Jesus I'm negging everyone


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## Christsean (Oct 12, 2013)

I just want to know what Jesus thinks of Obama Care? Because if he has no opinion then this thread went way off topic. Just saying!!


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## blergs. (Oct 17, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> If the government requires you to have car insurance does it means the government pays for it or provides it? NO. You haven't used enough rational thought to even have figured out what Obamacare is yet.



Health care for the whole country is how is should be. I am in Canada and it works fine here. and service is not bad.. the issue is USA never had it and its implementation may be the desaster...   but it needs to change... 
welfar is not why |USA is falling to shit, its the people with power and wiping buts with 100's that are the issue....


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## blergs. (Oct 17, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> men believe women squirt and it's not urine. you can make some people believe almost anything.



I do not agree with you
there is 2 types of "squirt"  one is during cumming and loss of control and pulsating that cause the pee. then there is the REAL squirt that is whit to clear and it is NOT pee.  where it come from?  you know how men have a prostate?  well  that was developed...  women still have some of this inside them....   some enough development/function to put out extra liquid.. trust me i have seen both kinds...  90% of porn squirt is piss. and i LOL at men saying its hot or look qt that cum or w/e... 

like i said there is REAL squirting.... but i do agree most is piss that you will come across.


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## blergs. (Oct 17, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> You are ok with this? WTF is wrong with you? You are complaining about how your mother died due to poor medical care here in the states, but you are ok with waiting lists when things are deemed not dire? you know how easy it is to rule something as not dire when it really is dire. Lets say you need a reconstruction on your knee. Well guess what, it's not dire so get on the waiting list. never mind the fact that here in the states you could have the surgery and be done with rehab and back on your feet back to work here in the states while in Canada you are simply put on the waiting list because it's not dire. Tell that to the man who needs the surgery to get back to work so he can feed his family. disability only lasts so long LW. You are supporting something that is so fraught with obvious problems, and is so dangerous to an already broken system and you are doing it by blinding yourself to the blatant problems. How many negative examples do you need?



We take care of our people here, cant say the same for USA, sorry...

You get quick help when its needed. ig oyu got a cut or bruise you want looked at.. you can so sit in the er for a few hrs... i think its fair...


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## blergs. (Oct 17, 2013)

blergs. said:


> We take care of our people here, cant say the same for USA, sorry...
> 
> You get quick help when its needed. if you got a cut or bruise you want looked at.. you can so sit in the er for a few hrs... i think its fair...



BTW I was in car accident and rehab was started couple weeks later... not sure what you are talking about with that example....  i then did about 2 yrs of rehab 2-3 times a week..... spine is still screwed but thats not due to medical care..


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## blergs. (Oct 17, 2013)

you can see a doc any time, make an apt and see him in a week, or go to walk in SAME DAY.


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## blergs. (Oct 17, 2013)

SheriV said:


> well this took a strange turn



Yeah!

For some reason LW turns me on in this thread :-d    maybe it was the squirt comments hehe :-D  Geez I sure am thirsty  :-O  


but srsly...  who here  really knows... i believe in evolution as a WAY of creation. there is energies (god) all around us that we dont see with our eyes...  there IS evolution, but that doesnt mean every animal is going to keep evolving unless its genetics are pressured too IMO..  so the argument of "well this animal hasnt changed| or  " we dont know how this one came to be" or  "this one cant evolve"   just because you dont know doesnt mean you have to bible thump to have an explanation for your ego driven mind.... atleast i can say i dont know all the facets of life/evolution, but i sure as hell am not going to believe nonsense from a book made BY MEN and limit myself, because it is easier to understand or accept...


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## Arnold (Oct 17, 2013)

Christsean said:


> I just want to know what Jesus thinks of Obama Care? Because if he has no opinion then this thread went way off topic. Just saying!!



I will be speaking to him tonite, will definitely bring up this question.


www.IronMagLabs.com


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## Standard Donkey (Oct 17, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> It was declared constitutional because it is a tax and the gov't has the right to levy taxes. Aren't you the one complaining about how we are overtaxed, and the government needs to leave us alone?



bro LW is a monkey lover. she will still convince herself that she is "happy" even if her premiums skyrocket like a lot of other people's already have started to.. she be like "hurrr so what everything doubled in cost, my side still won lolz"..


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## Christsean (Oct 17, 2013)

Just wanted to update everyone, Jesus does not support Obama Care. A missing ancient text was newly discovered stating that Jesus didn't believe that Obama was a real person, so his health care plan is just a figment of the democrats imagination.


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## Little Wing (Oct 18, 2013)

blergs. said:


> Yeah!
> 
> For some reason LW turns me on in this thread :-d    maybe it was the squirt comments hehe :-D  Geez I sure am thirsty  :-O
> 
> ...




i think the hot release that feels like a gush with orgasm is real "squirting". there's enough wetness to be all foamy clear sticky bubbles. it's MUCH thicker viscosity than urine and ropes if you have your fingers in it like a man's precum does. there just isn't half a cup of it. somewhere i have a pic i took for my bf of a toy all soaked in bubbles.

sorry but i couldn't resist the cheap thrill of desecrating the altar of this jesus thread.


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## Little Wing (Oct 18, 2013)

Standard Donkey said:


> bro LW is a monkey lover. she will still convince herself that she is "happy" even if her premiums skyrocket like a lot of other people's already have started to.. she be like "hurrr so what everything doubled in cost, my side still won lolz"..



canada has spoken. it works and keeps people alive longer. the people pissing themselves over the cost of health care insurance obviously don't buy it... so what happens when they have an issue? they suck the govt tit just as vigorously as anyone else is what.


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## jay_steel (Oct 18, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> canada has spoken. it works and keeps people alive longer. the people pissing themselves over the cost of health care insurance obviously don't buy it... so what happens when they have an issue? they suck the govt tit just as vigorously as anyone else is what.



have you educated your self on how Canada is actually functioning with healthcare or did you just google something and call it a day?
_
The average Canadian family pays about* 48 percent of its income in taxes  each year,* partly to fund the health care system. Rates vary from  province to province, but Ontario, the most populous, spends roughly 40  percent of every tax dollar on health care, according to the Canadian  Taxpayers Federation._

_Americans who flock to Canada for cheap flu shots often come away  impressed at the free and first-class medical care available to  Canadians, rich or poor. But tell that to hospital administrators  constantly having to cut staff for lack of funds, or to the mother whose  teenager was advised she would have to wait up to three years for  surgery to repair a torn knee ligament_

The system is going broke, says the federation, which campaigns for tax reform and private enterprise in health care.
_*
It  calculates that at present rates, Ontario will be spending 85 percent  of its budget on health care by 2035. "We can't afford a state monopoly  on health care anymore," says Tasha Kheiriddin, Ontario director of the  federation. "We have to examine private alternatives as well."*_

_George Zeliotis told the court he suffered pain and became addicted to  painkillers during a yearlong wait for hip replacement surgery, and  should have been allowed to pay for faster service. His physician, Dr.  Jacques Chaoulli, said his patient's constitutional rights were violated  because Quebec couldn't provide the care he needed, but didn't offer  him the option of getting it privately._

_Another watershed lawsuit was filed last year against 12 Quebec  hospitals on behalf of 10,000 breast-cancer patients in Quebec who had  to wait more than eight weeks for radiation therapy during a period  dating to October 1997._

_One woman went to Turkey for treatment. Another, Johanne Lavoie, was  among several sent to the United States. Diagnosed with invasive breast  cancer in 1999, she traveled every week with her 5-year-old son to  Vermont, a four-hour bus ride.

"It was an inhuman thing to live through," Lavoie told Toronto's Globe and Mail._

*An estimated 4 million of Canada's 33 million people don't have family  physicians and more than 1 million are on waiting lists for treatment,  according to the Canadian Medical Association. Meanwhile, some 200  physicians head to the United States each year, attracted by lower taxes  and better working conditions. Canada has 2.1 physicians per 1,000  people, while Belgium has 3.9, according to the Organization for  Economic Cooperation and Development.*

This I why people in Canada save additional income so they can get treatment in the US right?


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## HFO3 (Oct 18, 2013)

Jesus Rules.


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## hoyle21 (Oct 18, 2013)

I read articles like that and think, "wow, medicine in Canada sucks"'.  Then I realize I live a few hours from the boarder, make several trips hunting and fishing a year, and my sister lives in Toronto.    You know what my first hand account of Canadians tells me about that article? 

That was written by someone pushing an agenda who hasn't bothered to ask real Canadians about their health care.  

Of the thousands of Canadians I've now met I have yet to hear of a single horror story regarding their medical care.   Funny how that works out huh ?


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## jay_steel (Oct 18, 2013)

hoyle21 said:


> I read articles like that and think, "wow, medicine in Canada sucks"'.  Then I realize I live a few hours from the boarder, make several trips hunting and fishing a year, and my sister lives in Toronto.    You know what my first hand account of Canadians tells me about that article?
> 
> That was written by someone pushing an agenda who hasn't bothered to ask real Canadians about their health care.
> 
> Of the thousands of Canadians I've now met I have yet to hear of a single horror story regarding their medical care.   Funny how that works out huh ?



All of this was written from a Canadian source. None of it was from the US. All from Canadian newsletters and court cases. I also know many people from Canada as well that can not stand the health care system. the big key points here average Canadian pays 48% of their income to taxes. Also another fact there is only 2.1 doctors to 1,000 people. Another fact is even though their health care system is rated higher then ours which is not saying much it still is barely beating us with a rank of 30 and ours is 37. There is a huge difference also to canadas healthcare and Obama care. Canada provides their insurance to everyone at a VERY low rate around 96$ for a house hold of two. For my self to have Obama care as a silver plan I am looking at 600$ and If i wanted to piggy back my health care for additional coverage that is 800$ for my healthcare. 

Where as in France it is also highly affordable and people still buy private healthcare so it ends up covering it 100%. With my current status in France to cover my self 100$ I would pay less then 200$ a month and never have a hospital bill. You see I am getting something back for the taxes that I pay with good insurance from France..

If I elect to use Obamacare so i can get my tax money out of it, then I will spend 600$ and only cover 70% of coverage with a 13,000$ deductible. The problem is that our country physically can not afford this right now.


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## blergs. (Oct 22, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> have you educated your self on how Canada is actually functioning with healthcare or did you just google something and call it a day?
> _
> The average Canadian family pays about* 48 percent of its income in taxes  each year,* partly to fund the health care system. Rates vary from  province to province, but Ontario, the most populous, spends roughly 40  percent of every tax dollar on health care, according to the Canadian  Taxpayers Federation._
> 
> ...



Im in ontario... and i am fine... my mom has had MANT sergeries, most not pressing.  is system perfect? no, but its a heck of alot bettert than US. here you dont walk into the er with your fingers cut off from a work accident and have to choose which 2 of the 5 you want to keep because you cant afford them all...  you can look at many horrible cases in the US also in regards to healthcare.  getting second opinions and finding a doc that will press your issue to get faster results us on you at times. some have the money to get it done quicker. but its not a must. you will live weather you CAN or CAN NIT afford it, as it should be,.  and if you tear ligaments in leg they do quicker job then making you wait, it would effect recovering waiting too long. but sure I am sure there are  "horror stories" you can find about canada, just like the US.

We take care of our people rich or poor... you do not...

Many people here are a draIN ON the system. goign into doc and Er with simple flues and  other stupid issues that are wasting money and time of others. we will adjust system as need be. liek for example maybe gov covers 75% of costs and you must pay 25% of it. they it WILL detour easily 30% of visits, make visits that are made more worth while. cut down on burden ans unneeded Er visits and doc visits AND save millions.   even just adding a *you pay 10% *  will change this for the better... if it gets ot that point. also this is a time all the "baby boomers" are getting very old and that raises costs..   

atleast we are going in right direction,,,


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## blergs. (Oct 22, 2013)

you also forget advancements o=in science and medical care... which will cut down many issues/cost people are getting treated or cured.


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## Little Wing (Oct 22, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> have you educated your self on how Canada is actually functioning with healthcare or did you just google something and call it a day?
> _
> The average Canadian family pays about* 48 percent of its income in taxes  each year,* partly to fund the health care system. Rates vary from  province to province, but Ontario, the most populous, spends roughly 40  percent of every tax dollar on health care, according to the Canadian  Taxpayers Federation._
> 
> ...



actually i asked my bf of 9 years, who has lived in Montreal his entire life, _his_ opinion of their healthcare system. his family uses the national health care exclusively even though they could easily afford not to. we have discussed this at length many times considering my intent to move there eventually.


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## bdad (Oct 22, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> actually i asked my bf of 9 years, who has lived in Montreal his entire life, _his_ opinion of their healthcare system. his family uses the national health care exclusively even though they could easily afford not to. we have discussed this at length many times considering my intent to move there eventually.



Is bf your boyfriend?


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## bio-chem (Oct 22, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> actually i asked my bf of 9 years, who has lived in Montreal his entire life, _his_ opinion of their healthcare system. his family uses the national health care exclusively even though they could easily afford not to. we have discussed this at length many times considering my intent to move there eventually.


and this addresses the statistics posted how?


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## bio-chem (Oct 22, 2013)

hoyle21 said:


> I read articles like that and think, "wow, medicine in Canada sucks"'.  Then I realize I live a few hours from the boarder, make several trips hunting and fishing a year, and my sister lives in Toronto.    You know what my first hand account of Canadians tells me about that article?
> 
> That was written by someone pushing an agenda who hasn't bothered to ask real Canadians about their health care.
> 
> Of the thousands of Canadians I've now met I have yet to hear of a single horror story regarding their medical care.   Funny how that works out huh ?



of the thousands of Canadians you've met how many have you talked to about their healthcare? I work in healthcare, and have my whole career, both recruiting of doctors and in market research and i can tell you i've had hundreds of calls with doctors, or healthcare professionals in canada, and almost universally they complain about the system and the doctors want to come here to practice......


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## troubador (Oct 22, 2013)

jay_steel said:


> _
> The average Canadian family pays about* 48 percent of its income in taxes  each year,* partly to fund the health care system. Rates vary from  province to province, but Ontario, the most populous, spends roughly 40  percent of every tax dollar on health care, according to the Canadian  Taxpayers Federation._



That doesn't sound right. According to the CRA the highest tax bracket is 29%. Also, 1/3 of the country pays no income taxes. Any idea where that number came from?

Edit: I think this is where it is coming from. How much tax do Canadians really pay? Be afraid. Be very afraid :: La Jornada Hispanic Newspaper :: ENGLISH CONTENT


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## bdad (Oct 23, 2013)

bdad said:


> Is bf your boyfriend?



??????


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## LAM (Oct 23, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> of the thousands of Canadians you've met how many have you talked to about their healthcare? I work in healthcare, and have my whole career, both recruiting of doctors and in market research and i can tell you i've had hundreds of calls with doctors, or healthcare professionals in canada, and almost universally they complain about the system and the doctors want to come here to practice......



I'm sure the fact that US doctors make 3x the OECD average has nothing to do with that.  in the rest of the world being a Dr is like being a teacher or an engineer, it's no big deal just "another" career.  only in the US are Dr's put up on pedestals.
there's so many dam Dr's in India they make more money working in the call centers due to the over crowding of Dr's there.


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## bio-chem (Oct 23, 2013)

LAM said:


> I'm sure the fact that US doctors make 3x the OECD average has nothing to do with that.  in the rest of the world being a Dr is like being a teacher or an engineer, it's no big deal just "another" career.  only in the US are Dr's put up on pedestals.
> there's so many dam Dr's in India they make more money working in the call centers due to the over crowding of Dr's there.



I want Dr's making 3X the OECD average. I want a man who goes through 4 years of med school, a slavery year of internship, 3 years of residency, and a two year fellowship to know there is monetary compensation at the end of the tunnel when he has to treat my sisters cancer.  If Dr's aren't paid like kings then they will use their intelligence in other endeavors. We want the best and brightest as our Dr's, not second, or third best. Right now we are even seeing a shortage of Dr's because of a drop in pay. This is not the trend we want to continue. I can assure you that much. Dr's are not teachers, or engineers. I can assure you that. And none of us wants one to be when they are literally holding the heart of a loved one in their hands.

Every time you post LAM i'm more and more convinced you are a communist.


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## Little Wing (Oct 23, 2013)

bdad said:


> Is bf your boyfriend?



yes.


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## Little Wing (Oct 23, 2013)

those statistics are inaccurate as most agenda driven ones usually are.


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## HFO3 (Oct 23, 2013)

LAM said:


> I'm sure the fact that US doctors make 3x the OECD average has nothing to do with that.  in the rest of the world *being a Dr is like being a teacher or an engineer, it's no big deal just "another" career.*  only in the US are Dr's put up on pedestals.
> *there's so many dam Dr's in India they make more money working in the call centers* due to the over crowding of Dr's there.



Do you think that is ^^^a good idea?

Would you like to see American Dr's in the same tax bracket as school teachers? 

Are they just a no big deal or "another career" as you stated ?

Why is it good for you to enjoy financial stability as an IT guy but you find fault in others who have attained it in their chosen profession? Please elaborate for me...


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## troubador (Oct 23, 2013)

bio-chem said:


> Every time you post LAM i'm more and more convinced you are a communist.



I think he is. He seems mainly concerned with equality and arguments that it's good for the economy is just a tactic not the real motive.


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## Little Wing (Oct 23, 2013)

yeaaaaa, we want wages kept low and doctors charging so much that no one can afford to see one. makes perfect sense. sounds like the plot of people who are just too pussy to go out and murder the poor and get it over with.


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## troubador (Oct 23, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> yeaaaaa, we want wages kept low and doctors charging so much that no one can afford to see one. makes perfect sense. sounds like the plot of people who are just too pussy to go out and murder the poor and get it over with.


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