# All About Prohormones



## BabsieGirl (Jan 30, 2004)

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ALL ABOUT PROHORMONES

By Ed Sturm



INTRODUCTION

With so much being said about Prohormones/Andro products recently, it seems that everyone wants to give them a try. Are they effective? Yes, for the most part. Are they for everyone? Certainly not. Are they safe? Yes. for the most part. I use Prohormones, I make them and I sell them, but I am here to tell you that they are simply not for everyone and people should educate themselves before deciding whether or not to use them. Learn the facts rather than believing what the uneducated and ignorant press has to say about them.

There are several different types of Prohormones as well as several different methods of delivery. In this article I will attempt to explain the differences, talk about the pros and cons of Andro use, proper dosing and dieting, as well as who should not be using them.

Most of this article will be referring to Androdiol, otherwise known as 4-Androstenediol or 4AD. Also mentioned will be 4-Norandrodiol, otherwise known as Norandrostenediol. These are both the 4 versions. There will be no discussion pertaining to any 5-Andro products or any AndrosteneDIONE products as I feel they are useless to the weightlifting community.


THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN ANDRO AND NORANDRO:

Testosterone's effects on the maintenance of muscle and bone mass are termed anabolic effects, while its effects on the development and maintenance and of male sexual organs and male virilization effects
(facial hair growth, body hair growth, male pattern baldness, lowering of voice pitch etc.) are termed androgenic effects. Nortestosterone differs from testosterone in its therapeutic activity because, although it has been demonstrated to have similar anabolic properties, its androgenic properties are considerably less potent . . This makes the nortestosterone precursor norandrodiol valuable to those wishing to increase lean body mass, combat osteoporosis, and increase energy levels while avoiding androgenic effects. Examples of persons that would want to avoid androgenic effects would be women, and men with prostate and/or male pattern baldness problems. (as written by Patrick Arnold)

Basically, Norandrodiol, although considered to be equally as effective as Androdiol, limits the amount of androgenic effects while still producing the anabolic benefits. This makes the much more expensive Norandrodiol a much safer choice for men concerned with hair loss or natural testosterone production shutdown as well as for women in general. For those not concerned with the above mentioned androgenic effects, the less costly Androdiol products would be the route to go.


DELIVERY METHODS/TYPES OF PROHORMONES 

There are several different types of delivery methods. I will touch upon four of them here listing them in order of effectiveness with the most effective listed last.


1) Basic Oral (by the mouth) route.

This includes encapsulated prohormones (Androdiol and Norandrodiol) and bulk powdered Androdiol and Norandrodiol.

The oral method is the original prohormone delivery method. One ingests a capsule or bulk powder and it must first pass through the liver where in excess of 95% of it is broken down. What you are left with is less than 5% of the original prohormone for conversion to testosterone. In other words, you take a 100 mg capsule and you actually are getting less than 5mgs of useful prohormone. The liver destroys the rest. Although this method has proven to be very effective for many people, extremely large doses are required.


DOSES: This method will only raise testosterone levels for 2-3 hours therefore doses must be taken again each 2-3 hours. Since most of the prohormone taken will be broken down by the liver, extremely high doses are required for effectiveness. One would experience the best results by maintaining an elevated testosterone level throughout the entire day and night.


2) Sublingual (under the tongue)

Referred to as Cyclodiol or Norcyclodiol tablets or bulk powder.

The sublingual method is much more effective then the original oral. One places a tablet or bulk powder under their tongue an allows it to slowly dissolve through the mucous membranes in the mouth. Some of it will be absorbed directly into the bloodstream thereby eliminating the first liver pass that destroys most of the oral form. Since the mucous membranes are limited, much of it will not absorb and will be swallowed and broken down by the liver anyway but the end result that more prohormone gets through for conversion to testosterone.

There has been a lot of confusion concerning dosing between oral prohormones and sublingual prohormones. Most oral capsules contain 100-200mg of Androdiol or Norandrodiol while most Cyclodiol or Norcyclodiol tablets (sublingual) contain 25mg of Androdiol or Norandrodiol. Since so much more of the sublingual version is actually absorbed into the bloodstream, this makes one 25mg Cyclodiol or Norcyclodiol table equivalent to roughly three 100mg oral capsules. So, in this particular case, 25mg is not less than 100mg.

DOSES: This method will only raise testosterone levels for 2-3 hours therefore doses must be taken again each 2-3 hours. Since much of the prohormone taken will be broken down by the liver, frequent doses are required for effectiveness. One would experience the best results by maintaining an elevated testosterone level throughout the entire day and night, therefore 4-6 tablets per day would be an adequate dose.


3) Nasal Spray

There has been a lot of recent talk about nasal spray prohormone administration. Since the FDA does not consider this to be an accepted method of delivery, one can't purchase a ready made nasal spray prohormone. But, one can make his own very easily. Simply follow the instructions listed below this paragraph and use the nasal sprayer as the delivery method. Each spray will provide roughly 7mg of prohormone, more than half of which will be absorbed directly into the bloodstream via the mucous membranes in the nasal passages. This method yields approximately twice the absorption of the sublingual version.

The prohormone used to make the nasal spray is the same as mentioned above in the Sublingual paragraph; Cyclodiol or Norcyclodiol, but in bulk powder form rather than in tablet form. Currently, only one company offers the cyclos in bulk powder; Ergopharm. Be certain not to confuse the Hard Bodies Bulk Powdered Androdiol or Norandrodiol with the Ergopharm Cyclodiol or Norcyclodiol bulk powder. Only the Cyclo powders can be used to make the nasal spray.

DOSES: Many people are experiencing very good results by spraying 2-3 times in each nostril every 2-3 hours.

home nasal spray recipe


4) Transdermal (Through the skin)

Topical Body Sprays, made by Ergopharm and Biotest

This is the newest and what seems to be the most effective delivery method currently available. It has shown tremendous promise in just a short amount of time. It is basically a body spray of Androdiol mixed in Isopropyl Alcohol that one sprays over a large portion of their body. It absorbs through the skin and sustains a steady release of prohormone for up to 12 hours.

Many people are now using this with the aforementioned nasal spray and experiencing tremendous results.


DOSES: This one is easy as the new sprays actually recommend doses on the bottle that are adequate for making great gains. Spray every 12 hours.


MORE ON DOSES:

Most companies list the recommended doses as much less than required to be effective. Simply put, these are not effective doses and will serve only to act as an expensive pre-workout stimulant. The reason for the low recommendations is liability. The more prohormones one uses the greater the potential of experiencing negative side effects. Companies simply do not want the responsibility of telling people to take enough to put them at risk. The unwillingness to tell the truth is very misleading to the public and people expect to see major results using small amounts. I am going out on a limb by speaking the truth about dosing but I am a real bodybuilder speaking from real life experience.

With the exception of the new body sprays, the testosterone spike caused by most prohormones only lasts 2-3 hours. This is not enough to build muscle. In order to build muscle more effectively, we need a constant testosterone spike throughout the day and night. This is why most users are now taking doses several times per day. Formerly, I was an advocate of not taking any prohormones late in the day or in the evening. Since I am now recommending much shorter cycle length, taking prohormones in the evening should not cause natural production shutdown and will yield much greater overall gains due to the increased testosterone levels over a 24 hour period.


CYCLING:

It is important to cycle off prohormones for a minimum of the equal amount of time you have been on them. Do not continue to use them for more than 6 weeks consecutively. Failure to cycle off may result in the shutdown of your natural testosterone production. Once it shuts down, the prohormones are not strong enough to maintain average baseline testosterone. Signs of shutdown include lethargy, decrease in strength, muscle loss, and loss of sex drive and/or function. One major sign of testosterone shutdown is the morning erection. Basically, if you have been using prohormones for an extended period of time and you notice that you no longer wake up with an erection, chances are that you have used them too long and your natural testosterone production has shut down.

I am currently advocating much shorter prohormone cycles with much higher doses. I believe that limiting a cycle to less than six weeks will significantly reduce he chances of natural testosterone production shutdown as well as reducing the potential for other androgenic effects. The shorter cycle will require much higher doses and doses which will enable sustained testosterone elevation throughout the day and evening. I believe that the reason why steroid users will lose much of their gains after stopping a cycle is due to the fact that too long of a cycle has inhibited natural production of testosterone.


DIONES AND DIOLS:

In regards to the aforementioned side effects, I should point out that most of these side effects will occur with those who are using AndrosteneDIONE. AndrosteneDIONE will convert directly into estrogen thereby producing a series of negative effects in men. Simply put, DO NOT use any product containing any prohormone that ends in DIONE. Use only those ending in DIOL such as Androdiol or Norandrodiol.


PROTEIN SYNTHESIS AND DIET:

Elevated testosterone improves protein synthesis, which is the key to muscle repair, recovery and eventual growth. Increased protein synthesis cannot occur without adequate protein on a regular basis. Given this, one must consume a minimum of five servings of protein daily. That is the MINIMUM an more is generally required for the advanced lifter. One's dietary habits and protein consumption are a critical element in muscle building and in the absence of adequate protein or calories; muscles simply will not grow no matter how high your testosterone levels are elevated. 

Before even considering prohormone usage, one should take a good look at his eating habits. Generally a simple change to a bodybuilders type diet will bring about incredible gains, without prohormones. If the diet and training routine are already in place and you have hit a wall, than prohormones may be for you.


PROHORMONES AND BEGINNERS:

Those who are new to weightlifting or those who have "played around" with weights without ever getting serious are not candidates for prohormones. Myself, I spent several years lifting weights regularly without making much progress. When I changed my diet and made a commitment to stick to it, my gains were outrageous, and with little to no supplementation at all. People sometimes lose sight of the fact that a supplement is just that; a "supplement" to a proper training and nutrition program. My advice to a beginner, or someone who is just now becoming serious about his training is to wait on the prohormones. Follow the right training routine and diet and the gains will come. Once you find the gains slowing than perhaps you may choose to give prohormones a try. Prohormones are for the advanced and educated lifter.

PROHORMONES AND TEENAGERS:

Teenagers should not use Prohormones. That's as plain as I can say it. A teenager using any Andro product is at risk of experiencing premature bone end closure. Translation; you will stop growing. With normally high testosterone levels anyway, it simply is not worth the risk. Androstenedione and Androstenediol are particularly dangerous for teens. The Nor versions may also be dangerous as well, however perhaps not to the same extent as the regular ones.


PROHORMONES AND WOMEN:

Woman should stay away from Androstenedione and Androstenediol as both may cause a woman to develop male features such as facial hair, acne and deepening of the voice, as well as an enlarged clitoris. The Nor versions are safer for women.


SIDE EFFECTS:

Let us not underestimate the potential for side effects with high doses of prohormone use. As mentioned earlier, the more prohormone one uses, the greater the risk of experiencing negative side effects. Now don't get me wrong, these cases are quite rare, however the possibilities do exist and it's only fair that I point them out. Some have experienced side effects such as acne, gyno, (bitch tits) loss of hair and shutdown of the natural testosterone production. Most users experience no negative side effects even at very high doses, but even so, it is wise to be aware of the potential.

Gyno is a somewhat common problem amongst steroid users and some have experienced the same problems with prohormone usage. Gyno occurs when prohoromones aromatize into estrogen, or when excess testosterone converts to estrogen. Estrogen is the female hormone and it binds to receptors within the breast tissue causing males to begin to develop breasts. Fatty tissue deposits underneath the nipple area and may continue to grow with prolonged steroid or prohormone use. If you begin to experience any signs of swollen, irritated or painful nipples, discontinue all prohormone use and immediately consult a doctor. Again, this is a somewhat rare instance however it is one that the prohormone user should be aware of.

Another point worthy of mention is that those with any history of prostate problems should stay clear of all andro products as their use will more than likely cause an existing prostate problem to worsen.


DRUG TESTING:

The use of prohormones is banned in nearly all Powerlifting Organizations as well as in drug tested bodybuilding competitions. Although most employers who conduct drug testing are looking only for drugs such as cocaine and marijuana, there is a slight possibility of certain companies also administering steroid tests. Prohormone use will cause one to fail a steroid test. Androstenedione or Androstenediol use may show abnormally high testosterone readings which will cause a failure. These compounds are generally out of one's system in a week. Norandrostenedione and Norandrostenediol will cause a failed steroid test in that the compound Nandralone will appear. Nandralone is only present in the body in trace amounts unless one has used either of the Nors of the steroid Deca. Nandralone has been known to remain in one's system for up to three months.

A LAST THOUGHT:

Prohormones can be quite effective for the seasoned lifter; however, they should only be used by someone who is willing to follow a proper diet. They should not be used by beginners or by teenagers. Also, My advice is to first take a look at your diet and training routine and see where improvements can be made. Once again, I made the greatest gains of my life simply by changing my diet.



*Disclaimer: *

I am not a medical Doctor and the statements in this article are not meant to replace the advice of a physician. The contents of this article are my opinion only and may not be shared by the medical profession. Consult your Doctor prior to using prohormone products. We accept no liability for the information contained within and encourage people to consult with their private physicians.


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## maddog1 (Jan 30, 2004)

Um, thanks for the info sweetness, but I think they may want this more in the supps section.


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## BabsieGirl (Jan 30, 2004)

Sorry.  I thought this is where all the prohormone talk went.  

My bad.  I have not a clue about this.  Just noticed a lot of people were asking questions about these sort of things and, I stumbled across this site.

I'm sure if it's not meant to be here, a moderator will move it.


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## BabsieGirl (Jan 30, 2004)

Hey DG or Mudge......If this isn't the correct spot, will you please move it to the "proper" area?  

Thanks a ton fellas
Babs


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## maddog1 (Jan 30, 2004)

Oh, I really don't care where it goes, just my way of saying hi since ya stopped by over there.


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## devon (Jan 29, 2006)

Hi There, can you say to me if with the 19 norandrostenedione a Post Cycle Therapy is necessary or not ?


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