# Obamacare ruled unconstitutional by federal appeals court



## Arnold (Aug 12, 2011)

*Obamacare ruled unconstitutional by federal appeals court*
_by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger	_

(NaturalNews) The 11th circuit appeals court ruled today that Obama's health care mandate -- which forced Americans to purchase an insurance product that many did not want or need -- was unconstitutional and that Congress exceeded its constitutional authority in passing such a law. The rest of the health care reform law was not struck down, however, and indications are that the final legality of the so-called "individual mandate" will be decided by the U.S. Supreme Court.

The federal government's requirement that private citizens purchase products and services from a particular industry is, on its face, blatantly unconstitutional. If this mandate holds, the federal government could invoke the same power to require all Americans to purchase an automobile from General Motors, for example, as part of an auto industry bailout mandate. Or the feds could require all parents to purchase vaccines for their children, citing public health concerns. In fact, there is no limit to the things the federal government could require Americans to purchase, including new homes to "boost the economy." (Buy a home or go to jail!)


*A malicious misinterpretation of the Commerce Clause*

The Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution limits the power of the federal government to regulate private purchasing decisions, but the government has consistently and maliciously misinterpreted this clause to mean is has absolute power over all commerce taking place across the entire nation. This is what led the federal government to order one farmer to destroy all his wheat crops, claiming that his growing of wheat "interfered with interstate commerce" even though he was only feeding that wheat to his own chickens. Wickard vs. Filburn.

The pattern we're witnessing over the last couple of decades is that the federal government routinely seeks to expand its own power and authority, taking over huge sectors of what used to be a private economy (lenders and banks, for example). It then seeks to direct consumer behavior in a command economy dictatorship that forces people to financially support a system of failed health care that doesn't even work to prevent disease or make people healthier.

Since Obama pushed for his health care reform, the U.S. economy has imploded in record debt, huge job losses, a ratings downgrade of its financial solvency, and an evacuation of companies from the USA to open offices in other countries. Obamacare has devastated small businesses and American workers, increased the cost of health care and made it nearly impossible for U.S. companies to compete in the global marketplace. And yet it's not even the worst part of what is increasingly becoming a failed Presidency that has left the country in far worse shape than it was when Obama was sworn into office.

As the job losses mount, the national debt explodes, and the health care crises grows even worse, people are finally starting to wake up and realize that Big Government is the PROBLEM in America, not the answer. The real answer to affordable healthcare is to get the government out of the business of health care, shutter the FDA, legalize free speech for nutritional supplements and end the state medical board tyrannies that criminalize the practicing of alternative and holistic medicine. Only the freedom to heal can reverse America's downward spiral of disease and debt, and this means ending the FDA, shutting down the DEA, radically cutting the size of government and restoring liberty to our farmers, herbalists, chiropractors and consumers.

Obamacare is a complete disaster. HOPE, it seems did not result in positive CHANGE. Instead, everything is now worse. Maybe it's time to try something different than merely expanding the size and power of a government that openly engages in acts of terrorism against its own people.

Maybe it's time to elect a champion of limited government who understands the principles of freedom... someone like Ron Paul, for example.

*Ron Paul 2012 Official Campaign WebsiteRon Paul 2012 Presidential Campaign Committee*

Learn more: Obamacare ruled unconstitutional by federal appeals court


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## jagbender (Aug 12, 2011)

I hope this holds  our Government is overstepping its authority!


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## SuperLift (Aug 12, 2011)

Bout time somebody wised up


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## M4A3 (Aug 12, 2011)

Fuck yeah!

And fuck the democrats and their Stalinist bullshit healthcare.


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## irish_2003 (Aug 12, 2011)

this is good for those who don't have insurance, don't need insurance, can't afford insurance, and want to keep their tax refunds because they need that instead of the hidden tax/fine imposed by Obamacare.....

on a side note, i do believe there should be more pay as you go type walk in clinics....i know Walmart has started doing this.....you know places that post on it's wall what you get and for how much.....this will make people think about going to the hospital for an $80 bandaid that they could simply go to Walgreens and get


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## maxpro2 (Aug 12, 2011)

> The Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution limits the power of the federal government to regulate private purchasing decisions, but the government has consistently and maliciously misinterpreted this clause to mean is has absolute power over all commerce taking place across the entire nation. This is what led the federal government to order one farmer to destroy all his wheat crops, claiming that his growing of wheat "interfered with interstate commerce" even though he was only feeding that wheat to his own chickens. Wickard vs. Filburn.



I can't believe the author (Mike Adams, the Health Ranger) is writing about constitutional law issues when it is clear he has no clue what he is talking about. 

The doctrine of _Wickard v. Filburn _was upheld and has long since been cited and approved of by the Supreme Court (though limited to economic aggregation in _Lopez_ and _Morrison_. The wheat ban was allowed because, in the aggregate, the actions of individual farmers affected interstate commerce.


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## hoyle21 (Aug 12, 2011)

None of this matter till the SCOTUS hears it and rules.


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## AdmiralRichard (Aug 12, 2011)

Looks like you got saved from massive debt and big Gov


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## LAM (Aug 12, 2011)

M4A3 said:


> Fuck yeah!
> 
> And fuck the democrats and their Stalinist bullshit healthcare.



you do know that the US is the only country in the world with a for profit healthcare system don't you?  that being the case it's pretty obvious that the US has chosen the wrong model for healthcare.  

by 2020 healthcare expenses will account for 30% of the consumption budget for the average worker.  good luck saving and paying a mortgage and having healthcare...


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## LAM (Aug 12, 2011)

Health: spending continues to outpace economic growth in most OECD countries 
Health: spending continues to outpace economic growth in most OECD countries

"In 2009, there were large variations in how much OECD countries spent on health and the health spending share of GDP. The United States continued to outspend all other OECD countries by a wide margin, with spending on health per capita of $7960. This was two-and-a-half times more than the OECD average of $3223. 

 As a share of GDP, the United States spent 17.4% on health in 2009, 5 percentage points more than in the next two countries, the Netherlands and France (which allocated 12.0% and 11.8% of their GDP on health). Norway and Switzerland were the next biggest spenders on health per capita, with spending of more than $5000 per capita in 2009. "

* and this is what you get when you have a for profit healthcare system, not the best care in the world but the most expensive in it.


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## Zaphod (Aug 12, 2011)

Don't be bringing facts into this, LAM.  Facts only serve to distort what the political parties are trying to foist on everybody.  It also gets the folks that don't believe in facts all worked up.  Can't have that.


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## M4A3 (Aug 12, 2011)

LAM said:


> you do know that the US is the only country in the world with a for profit healthcare system don't you?  that being the case it's pretty obvious that the US has chosen the wrong model for healthcare.
> 
> by 2020 healthcare expenses will account for 30% of the consumption budget for the average worker.  good luck saving and paying a mortgage and having healthcare...




I pay $330 a month for medical. Everyone else can pony up too, or do without. This shit isn't free. No more government handouts.


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## LAM (Aug 12, 2011)

M4A3 said:


> I pay $330 a month for medical. Everyone else can pony up too, or do without. This shit isn't free. No more government handouts.



pay with what?

"The United States is the country with the highest inequality level and poverty rate across the OECD, Mexico and Turkey excepted. Since 2000, income inequality has increased rapidly, continuing a long-term trend that goes back to the 1970s."

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/47/2/41528678.pdf

* anyone know what happened in the 70's?...neo-liberalism (supply-side economics)

* freaking awesome the US is ahead of 2 shitty country's, outstanding!


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## DEATH MATCH (Aug 13, 2011)

Lams buddy blojob barry is going to have his healrth care bill thrown out. What are the liberals going to do when he loses his office soon and the republicans take control of the senate and have full control. Poor lam looks like barry made you lose all faith in him


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## LAM (Aug 13, 2011)

DEATH MATCH said:


> What are the liberals going to do when he loses his office soon and the republicans take control of the senate and have full control.



say we told you so "to the people" after the GOP fucks up the economy even worst with conservative economic policies based on mythology and not the real world.  all the historical data showing the ineffectiveness of those policies except for increasing poverty and helping to decrease the GDP.


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## LAM (Aug 13, 2011)

The Truth about Redistribution:
Republicans Receive, Democrats Disburse


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## M4A3 (Aug 13, 2011)

LAM said:


> pay with what?
> 
> "The United States is the country with the highest inequality level and poverty rate across the OECD, Mexico and Turkey excepted. Since 2000, income inequality has increased rapidly, continuing a long-term trend that goes back to the 1970s."
> 
> ...



I don't give a fuck what they pay for it with. They pay for it in blood and/or semen, as long as the US tax payer isn't paying for it. LOL!

Newsflash. Life isn't fair. 

Some people can afford healthcare, some can't. Health insurance isn't a right. No where in the Bill of Rights does it say everyone has a right to health insurance. Congress has overstepped the bounds of the Constitution and needs to be bitch-slapped by the SCOTUS.


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## DOMS (Aug 13, 2011)

LAM said:


> pay with what?
> 
> "The United States is the country with the highest inequality level and poverty rate across the OECD, Mexico and Turkey excepted. Since 2000, income inequality has increased rapidly, continuing a long-term trend that goes back to the 1970s."
> 
> ...



The USA has some of the richest people on the planet. That's just horrible. Horrible, I say!


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## DEATH MATCH (Aug 13, 2011)

Lam your gonna look real stupid  when you see the debt going down and new Republican policies. And all your copy and paste shit doesnt mean a thing and thats all you do is find liberal shit or stuff to blast the Republicans.See I know alot of you Liberals out there know i'm right about this idiot and he lied to all of you and you fell for it. But now Liberals are aware of Barrys bullshit and every where it shows he's lost his base. Even New York now gives him a huge negative approval, Quinnipiac Poll: New York Turns Negative on Obama

And now the courts ruled in Favor that his bullshit health care sucks ass,lol I cant wait until it goes to the Supreme Court and that whole health care bill tossed out and that will be right around election time when he's losing bad.I cant wait to pm you lam in big bold capital letters "I told you so" after the election


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## Zaphod (Aug 13, 2011)

M4A3 said:


> I don't give a fuck what they pay for it with. They pay for it in blood and/or semen, as long as the US tax payer isn't paying for it. LOL!
> 
> Newsflash. Life isn't fair.
> 
> Some people can afford healthcare, some can't. Health insurance isn't a right. No where in the Bill of Rights does it say everyone has a right to health insurance. Congress has overstepped the bounds of the Constitution and needs to be bitch-slapped by the SCOTUS.



Unless you do not have healthcare coverage you are paying for someone else's insurance.  

The Constitution also doesn't say you have the right to travel but the Supreme Court said you do.  Healthcare coverage will be the same thing.  Although I doubt meatheads can get it through their tiny little minds that the healthcare bill isn't socialized medicine.


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## Zaphod (Aug 13, 2011)

DEATH MATCH said:


> Lam your gonna look real stupid  when you see the debt going down and new Republican policies. And all your copy and paste shit doesnt mean a thing and thats all you do is find liberal shit or stuff to blast the Republicans.See I know alot of you Liberals out there know i'm right about this idiot and he lied to all of you and you fell for it. But now Liberals are aware of Barrys bullshit and every where it shows he's lost his base. Even New York now gives him a huge negative approval, Quinnipiac Poll: New York Turns Negative on Obama
> 
> And now the courts ruled in Favor that his bullshit health care sucks ass,lol I cant wait until it goes to the Supreme Court and that whole health care bill tossed out and that will be right around election time when he's losing bad.I cant wait to pm you lam in big bold capital letters "I told you so" after the election



More courts have ruled in favor of the healthcare bill.  Odds aren't looking to be in your favor.


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## LAM (Aug 13, 2011)

DEATH MATCH said:


> Lam your gonna look real stupid  when you see the debt going down and new Republican policies. And all your copy and paste shit doesnt mean a thing and thats all you do is find liberal shit or stuff to blast the Republicans.See I know alot of you Liberals out there know i'm right about this idiot and he lied to all of you and you fell for it. But now Liberals are aware of Barrys bullshit and every where it shows he's lost his base. Even New York now gives him a huge negative approval, Quinnipiac Poll: New York Turns Negative on Obama
> 
> And now the courts ruled in Favor that his bullshit health care sucks ass,lol I cant wait until it goes to the Supreme Court and that whole health care bill tossed out and that will be right around election time when he's losing bad.I cant wait to pm you lam in big bold capital letters "I told you so" after the election



WTF does copying and pasting have to do with the accuracy and validity of data?   you far right conservatives are freaking retards because there IS NOT DATA THAT SUPPORTS CONSERVATIVE ECONOMIC POLICIES, they are all detrimental and have NEVER HAD A POSITIVE EFFECT ON THE ECONOMY. that's why outside of the Heritage Foundation of Cato Institute you don't find any papers or literature on them written by economists.

REDUCING FEDERAL DEBT HAS NO EFFECT ON INCREASING GDP or DECREASING UNEMPLOYMENT so what does it matter...the debt problem in the US is secondary to the high unemployment and the amount of people that are working poor.  until wages are brought up there will be no increase in GDP, it's that simple it's basic real world economics.

there is no country in the world that has a high or increasing GDP's and high rates of increasing real incomes that have these 3 things:

low corporate tax rates
low percentage of GDP going to social protections
low percentage of unionization

* if these things are not changed in 30-40 years the US WILL be the NEW MEXICO.....


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## AdmiralRichard (Aug 13, 2011)

damn them white people and all that money


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## LAM (Aug 13, 2011)

AdmiralRichard said:


> damn them white people and all that money



increasing economic inequality is the root cause of economic stagnation in the US it is also the root cause of the financial meltdown in 2008 and it has been a major contributing factor in every recession since the late 70's.

if you think these are good things then you will enjoy living in poverty when you are older as home values in the US will continue to decrease over the decades as will the continuation of economic bubble and burst cycles, each time reducing equity and adding to unemployment as more people fall out of the workforce as the US economy WILL continue to spiral downhill in every preceding decade.

the US economy works in cycles but most that have no real knowledge of real world economics do not know this.  this being the case methods used to boost the economy before say in the 80's by Reagan will not work now or in the future, nor will the methods from Carter in the 70's, etc., etc.

the US has a major insolvency problem due to a lack of any major industry that provides legitimate income.  when the gold lease rate was lowered in the 90's Ft. Knox was "raided" to provide funding for "special" Wallstreet banks.  but now many of these banks have been "deemed" to big to fail so instead of facing liquidation they will continue to exist and be problematic.  So most likely Ron Paul is right and Ft. Knox is empty this also means the most likely the former IMF Chief was setup by the US government when he discovered this to be true.  but these same banks are kept alive by money laundering fueled by narco operations which operate under the veil of the "war on terror".

the current debt problem in the US is about 50-100x worst then Greece but since most Americans get all their information from tv and have just about zero knowledge in economics they would not know this.  Greek default could cause huge CDS payouts by AIG which are obligations now held by the US government.  repealing glass-steagall will go down as one of the worst decisions in US history in decades to come.

almost 30% of US homeowners are underwater and the next bubble to burst WILL be the US bond market.  during economic recession equity is transferred to bond holders.  this sucks capital out of the economy worst than anything but instead of investing back into the country by rebuilding the industrial or manufacturing base the so called "job creators" which buy all the bonds simply look for another place to grow their assets in.

anyone that isn't "rich" by now never will be and anyone that is poor will be much worst off in the future.


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## MDR (Aug 13, 2011)

*The Health Ranger has Fallen Off His Horse: He thinks that Science is the ???Evil??? of Our Time!*

Tags: *Activism*, *Cultural Reform*, *Current Events*, *Current World Crisis*, *Ecology & Environment*, *Global Crisis*, *Government Corruption*, *Government Reform*, *Social Justice*, *Social Reform*, *Top*

http://emergent-culture.com/the-hea...t-science-is-the-evil-of-our-time-mike-adams/
*




*Generally speaking I have high regard for Mike Adams aka the Health Ranger who runs the informative Natural News website.
His site has a whole health theme, but what impresses me the most about his site is that he gives room to a fairly wide range of highly relevant social topics that go beyond products and information about body-mind health.
In today???s ecosocio-political climate we need everyone with a blog, website or social media account to discuss the important issues of our time. To discuss only pleasantries, niceties and one???s specialization is to do a disservice to your community. *We are not in Kansas (???Good Ole USA land of the free, blah, blah, etc???..???) any more???we never were.*
It was a temporary illusion cast over 20th century society with the help of unidirectional radio and televisions broadcasts. And this brings to the subject of this post. According to Mike Adam???s logic, science, the creator of radio and TV is to blame for many of our modern ills.
*His article on the the evils of science and ???the scientific madman Stephan Hawking??? sounds like the screams of a wild-eyed religious fundamentalist.*
_Science has become evil, in other words. Through its lack of empathy and its failure to recognize the existence of the mind, it is carrying out agendas that go far beyond mere ???crimes against humanity??? and border on the demonic. In the name of ???science,??? life is being destroyed across our planet, and yet, astoundingly, those poison pushers who profit from it proclaim that they are the saviors of our world! ???People will starve if we don???t grow genetically modified crops,??? they cry. _​*Now really Mike??? is it in the name of science that life is destroyed or is it in the name of profit? Do you really think that lab scientists are scheming ways to destroy life or is it the policy of capitalist economics that proclaims profit at all costs?*
*I???m sure most you have heard of the Union of Concerned Scientists, but have you ever heard of the Union of Concerned MBA???s?*
_Yet at the same time they refuse to let a farmer in India save his own seeds from one generation to the next. They have refused him the natural right to plant his own crops, year 

after year, without paying royalties to the monopolistic evil corporation that has used scientific genetic engineering to cause seeds to self-terminate after one generation._
_If we follow ???science??? as our great leader and teacher, we will only follow it to our own self destruction. Because science has no soul. It has no spirit. It has no mind. It is an empty shell of mathematics that lacks meaning. It has nothing more to offer our civilization until we attain a deeper appreciation of empathy, consciousness and free will. Because only from that place can we hope to properly understand and apply the sciences in a way that protects life rather than destroying it._​*He then goes on to list the ???evil??? offspring of science.*
_The world of ???science??? has given us atomic weapons, GMOs, vaccines, toxic synthetic chemicals, pesticides and psychiatric drugs. It has used innocent people in deadly medical experiments and unleashed widespread genetic pollution on our world through the careless proliferation of genetically modified organisms. But the scientists insisted they were creating a better world. ???Better living through chemistry,??? they said two decades ago. And now, a generation later, we are dealing with a collapse of life on our planet so large and so disastrous that it is being called the sixth great extinction of life on our planet _
_How could science have paved the way for such destruction on the planet?_​*Mr. Adams is seriously deluded as to what science is. He talks about science as if it were some sort of political ideology and nothing could be further from the truth. His rant is so absurd that is makes me wonder if he isn???t a closet creationist. *
Scientists don???t craft company slogans or commercials that job is left to Madison Avenue???s sleight of hand specialists. 


Science is first and foremost a methodology used in an attempt to arrive at the most unfettered and uncluttered view of reality. Humans are prone to cognitive-perceptual biases that lead to erroneous and delusional interpretations of the phenomenal world. Mr. Adams??? article is a case in point.
The scientific method helps us to distinguish between realities existing only in our heads and realities not dependent upon one???s imagination. It is evident that Mr. Adams has no understanding of what science is and it becomes all too glaringly clear as we examine the rest of his tirade.

*Here???s how the dictionary defines Science.*
_The intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment : the world of science and technology._
_??? a particular area of this : veterinary science | the agricultural sciences._
_??? a systematically organized body of knowledge on a particular subject : the science of criminology.
_​*In Other Words Science is a Tool.*
*How can anyone in their right mind attribute intent to an inanimate entity? By Adams??? logic then we can also say that knives are ???evil??? because they are used kill people.*
We all know that knives are for the most part used in beneficial ways. And when a knife is used to kill somebody do we fault the user of the tool or the tool? Science has enabled us to create many beneficial tools and to be fair science has also helped us to create many tools with detrimental effects for all concerned.
But where does the ???evil??? lie? With the tool maker or the tool? I doubt that anybody is going to implicate the tool so that leaves the tool maker. So does that mean that certain scientists are ???evil??? because the are willing to help create harmful tools? Before we go forward with this last question let???s drop the word evil. It???s not a word that I use because it???s an archaic word left over from our more ignorant pre-scientific days.

*WHAT IS EVIL?*
Evil implies inherent badness, as if there were some sort of absolute source of evil in the cosmos from which evil things spring. Science has taught me a different understanding of this thing we call evil.
Humans display a wide range of behaviors and science has shown that we are shaped by a combination of inherited and cultural/environmental factors.
Studies of individuals prone to 

socially unacceptable behavior such as violence, paedophilia and rape have shown that there are genetic and environmental components involved.
Not everyone that is abused as a child goes on to commit violent crimes, but some so do. Those that do resort to habitual violence have genetic factors involved. But studies have revealed that possessing a certain genetic profile is not enough to compel someone to habitual violence.
*The culpable genes are dormant until environmental pressures (abuse/trauma) activate the genes in question. *
Extreme behaviors are extreme because they are committed by a very small percentage of the population. And we now know that individuals who have suffered traumatic experiences often develop deviant or extreme and unusual behaviors.
We can therefore say that extreme or unusual behaviors result from a combination of traumatic or unusual experiences and a compromised genetic profile. What we???ve called evil behavior is in fact compelled behavior that results from injury and misfortune. ???Evil??? people are damaged people.

*Now back to the question of scientists who knowingly help create harmful tools. What are we to make of them? Are they damaged or deviant in some way? Here???s what Mike has to say about scientists.*
_We denounce the core philosophical delusions of science_
_This new documentary, The God Within, seeks to answer the question of why science is so destructive and dangerous. It begins by denouncing the false philosophy fronted by famed physicist Stephen Hawking, who insists that human beings are biological robots with no consciousness, no free will, no minds and no spirit._
_In his own words, from his book The Grand Design:_
_???It is hard to imagine how free will can operate if our behavior is determined by physical law, so it seems that we are no more than biological machines and that free will is just an illusion.???_
_Like most conventional scientists, Hawking believes that human beings are not conscious beings. Thus, we are incapable of empathy; incapable of love, pain, suffering or making our own decisions based on free will._​*





Whoa there health ranger, I don???t know what kind of high horse he???s riding, but it seems his marbles have been rattled from riding so hard and fast. *
*At this point I???ll denounce Mike Adams as delusional and unfit to write about science and scientists with any kind of respect for accuracy or rigor.*
Adams quotes one line from Hawking in which he (Hawking) uses words like ???hard to believe??? and ???seems??? in reference to the question of free will and biological machines, yet Adams accuses him of ???insisting that human beings are no more than biological robots with no consciousness, no free will, no minds and no spirit???.
Adams then adds insult to injury, that is he insults the average intelligence and demolishes his credibility by blurting that ???Hawking believes human beings are not conscious beings. Thus, we are incapable of empathy; incapable of love, pain, suffering or making our own decisions based on free will.???

*Adams continues his diatribe by saying???.*
_This utter lack of recognition of the value of consciousness in living beings is the core principle of evil upon which most of modern science is built. It is the lack of empathy itself that gives rise to great evil._
_Interestingly, this is precisely the conclusion of a member of the scientific community ??? Cambridge University psychology professor Simon Baron-Cohen, who has *written a new book in which he concludes that evil originates with a failure of empathy.* He explains that psychopaths have ???zero degrees of empathy,??? meaning they do not recognize nor value the thoughts and feelings of others._
_This just happens to be the core principle of conventional science, which believes that feelings and thoughts are mere ???biological ricochets??? of brain chemistry, lacking any spirit, intention or consciousness. Thus, the core principle of conventional science as practiced today is psychopathic and delusional._
_This is why so many offshoots of so-called ???scientific??? thinking ??? the pursuit of GMOs, the mass-vaccination harming of innocent children, the widespread chemical poisoning of the natural world ??? are so blatantly psychopathic in nature. To unleash genetic contamination upon the world through the use of seeds containing ???terminator??? technology is a dangerous act from a psychopathic industry operating without any empathy toward living creatures._
_Modern science is psychopathic in its applications_
_A psychopath is defined as ???A person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.???_​*Let???s get it straight Lone Ranger. ???Psycho-??? equates to a person???s mental-emotional faculties and ???-pathic??? is derived from pathology meaning sickness or disease. People are psychopathic. Inanimate things don???t have minds and therefore can???t be psychopathic. *
Now an ideology can be said to espouse psychopathic behavior, but there is no general scientific creed or mission statement unspoken or otherwise to be found anywhere. You saw the scientific method defined, it???s a process used to refine our knowing and our technologies??? not a socio-political ideology.

*THE REAL PROBLEM*


Art does indeed imitate life It's no accident that Dick Cheney resembles Dr. Evil. 

The root problem that Mr. Adams is foaming about lies with psychopathic people and *not *with the tools symptomatic of psychopathic creators.
Money and power addicted barbarians with no regard for anything else are the root source of our collective problems.
The same kind of people are elected to be our lawmakers, who in turn are considered world leaders. World leaders in what? World leaders in the destruction of the biosphere that is.
We can all agree that there are not enough laws to protect us and the environment from the psychopathology of the ruling and corporate classes. And we know that the foregoing situation is *not* an oversight.
Psychopathic lawmakers are teamed with a psychopathic corporate class to wring out as much profit as possible from the host class. Yes host??? as in hosts to parasites. The three branches of government and the corporate class are a single entity working in tandem to live off the ignorance and cultivated passivity of the subject or host class. That is why I use the term Govcorp. Fascist means the same, but Govcorp is more direct and doesn???t need much definition.
Scientists may be found guilty of psychopathic behavior if they willingly and knowingly contribute their effort to endeavors that are more detrimental than anything else. Such as the scientists who work for Monsanto, the Military Industrial Complex, tobacco companies and other dubious enterprises.

*A SOLUTION*
Neuroscientists and psychologists can test prospective public office candidates for psychpathological traits. A truly enlightened society would employ science to screen out the bad apples and demand laws to protect the biosphere and its denizens from those all too willing to apply science in detrimental ways.
Science is then used to create safe technologies because sane people are at the helm crafting holistic policies. But the tragic truth is that we have the exact opposite. We have a psychopathic governing class that is installed and commandeered by a psychopathic corporate class. If Mike Adams wants rail, rant and expose the ???evil in the world then I suggest he leave science alone and focus on the public policy makers.

*Mr. Adams continues???*
_Yet this perfectly describes the behavior of many corporations operating under the label of ???science.??? The GMO seed companies, pesticide companies, fluoride chemical companies, psychiatric drug manufacturers, chemotherapy makers and vaccine manufacturers are, in effect, ???psychopathic??? in their behavior. They all claim to be operating as ???scientific??? entities, however, and they aggressively attack those who disagree with them as being ???unscientific.??? It is this perverted, criminal and amoral behavior ??? and a total lack of empathy for living beings ??? that qualifies much of today???s ???scientific??? corporate behavior as inescapably psychopathic._​*There is no such thing as ???scientific corporate behavior??? Corporations are not waving a science flag. Are you kidding we live in an anti-intellectual culture. The flag waved by **



**corporations screams glorified and sexualized materialism!*
_They teach disease and drugs in medical school, in other words, but they don???t teach doctors to value the life experience and consciousness of their patients. The idea that the patient even has a ???spirit??? or a ???mind??? is so alien to modern medicine that the entire conventional medical system utterly denies the existence of mind-body medicine??? as if somehow the mind did not even exist._​*Where have you been Health Ranger? Psychosomatic dynamics and the placebo effect are well understood phenomena thanks to science. *
*They may be under utilized and under emphasized branches of knowledge, but it has nothing to do with the philosophy of science and everything to do with the conduct of a profit driven class of people who employ science to entirely selfish ends. *
*What Monsanto or Eli Lilly do is by no means done in the name of science, but in the name of economic gain. They are business/money making enterprises not schools of philosophy.*
_This denial of the existence of the mind (and its interaction with the body) is a kind of scientific insanity that has infected the minds of modern doctors and medical researchers. But it doesn???t stop at medicine, of course: This delusion also runs rampant through the physics community._​*What has Mr. Adams??? been smoking? Who denies of the existence of the mind and its interaction with the body? Even Harvard Medical School offers classes on psychosomatic medicine.*
*Psychosomatic medicine has been written about extensively since the late 1930,s and is now a fully established branch of mainstream medical science. The Physics community has been discussing the observer effect for more than half a century and in 1997 the observer effect was given empirical validation.*

*The Health Ranger rages on???.*
_We must not blindly follow science to our own destruction_
_That our world???s top physicists such as Stephen Hawking fully embrace the frightening belief that human beings have no consciousness, no minds and no free will is a gigantic warning sign that the human race must not follow ???science??? blindly to its own self destruction._​*Stephen Hawking is an eccentric physicist from what is perhaps one of the most irrelevant branches of science at this stage of its evolution. He is hardly a spokesperson for the scientific community.
*
*And if Mike Adams would do some research and a lot less ranting he would discover that the classical definition of free will is indeed in need of revision. *

_???Science??? has led us down the path of nuclear catastrophe, the depletion of natural resources, the chemical saturation of our agricultural lands and the ongoing collapse of food 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




pollinators such as honey bees and bats. ???Science??? has irradiated our bodies, drugged our children, polluted our spaces with electromagnetic cell phone broadcasts, contaminated our water supplies and impoverished our genetic future with the incessant burden of DNA-damaging chemical contamination. _
_???Science??? is leading humanity to its own destruction while promising progress. ???Science??? has become the modern-day justification for the advancement of evil ??? the destruction of life on our planet for the sole purpose of furthering a corporate or political agenda (at the expense of protecting life)._
_This is a template of absolute evil, carried out in the name of science. And it is being conducted by truly evil human beings who are quite literally psychopathic in that they have no capacity to value the lives or experiences of others. They are the demons who roam our world, destroying everything in their path while attacking those who dare to protect life. These demons must either be transformed or destroyed if we hope to have a sustainable future of life on our planet._​*Perhaps the only accurate statement made by Adams in his entire article is the identification of psychopathic people in positions of power and the very real and present danger they pose. I can agree with him 100 percent on that point. Otherwise I am completely astounded by the magnitude of his misconceptions to say the least. *

*The End is Near that is the End of Mike Adams??? Mindless Tirade
*
_We must denounce the mindless, soulless ???scientific??? path_
_It is time that we, the citizens of our planet, denounced the mindless, soulless philosophy of the scientific community and embraced a wiser, more advanced philosophy that recognizes the reality of consciousness??? not merely human consciousness, by the way, but the consciousness of all living things: Animals, trees and plants._

_Only by embracing a new philosophy that celebrates the existence of consciousness, the mind, the soul and free will can we ever hope to achieve wisdom and peace as a species._
_Only by valuing life can we ever hope to sustain it._
_Only by recognizing the suffering in others can we ever hope to end it._
_Only by abandoning the empty mindless underpinning of modern science can we ever hope to halt the destruction it has unleashed upon our world._
_A philosophical shift is the next step in human advancement_
_The real solutions to our world???s problems, you see, do not merely require banning GMOs or outlawing certain chemical pesticides. They require a wholesale philosophical upgrade that advances human understanding from the outmoded Newtonian era of understanding to the ???quantum era??? of human and animal consciousness. The next stage in our evolution, in other words, will not come from the realm of science at all but rather the realm of philosophy._
​*CONCLUSION and CONFUSION*
*Quantum era? Isn???t ???quantum??? a highfalutin science term used by people like public enemy number one Stephen Hawking? *
I can???t help but disagree with Adams??? conclusion. We are awash with too many theories and philosophies (analysis paralysis) as it is and what good has it done us? And the last thing we need is some nebulous ???consciousness??? based philosophy. All this jibberjabber about ???consciousness ??? is so navel gazing, get over it and do something useful with it I say.
Don???t get me wrong the ability to conceptualize, write down and transmit our ideas about reality has value. But it???s not that we lack the philosophical basis to create the kinds of change our 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




societies need in order to meet with the philosophies of *sustainability and ecology.*
The idea of *sustainability* entered the literary field in *late 1970′s *and ecology was around at the start of early 20th century. People started writing about ecology en masse during the 60′s and it reached a *peak around the year 2000.*
We well know what kinds of philosophies are needed to live sustainably on a finite planet, but do we see the governments of world acting on those philosophies? The people we call our leaders could care less about philosophical shifts. The kind of shift we need removes the obstacles (entrenched interests) so that we can implement corrective and effective philosophies.
The problem lies with *implementation of evidence based philosophies *and the reason that sustainability and ecologically based policies are not being implemented is due to the fact that our leadership agencies are infested and controlled by psychopathic individuals. Empathy deficient people who are addicted to money and power and who could care less about the present and future health of the planet and its inhabitants as long as they are profitting.
The sane and holistically conscientious people of the world need to understand that we are governed by the worst among us and that there will be *no change* at the macro scale until our leadership agencies are directed by sane and holistically conscientious people. And Mike Adams may disagree, but science will provide the safest technologies and best methodologies when sane and holistically based policies rule the day.


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 13, 2011)

LAM said:


> you do know that the US is the only country in the world with a for profit healthcare system don't you?  that being the case it's pretty obvious that the US has chosen the wrong model for healthcare.
> .



because we have a for profit healthcare system we have the wrong model? is that why we have the best doctors, and the best treatments?


----------



## deadlifter405 (Aug 13, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> because we have a for profit healthcare system we have the wrong model? is that why we have the best doctors, and the best treatments?



Absolutely correct you are!

Under all circumstances, given the ability to enrich themselves personally, people will always outproduce at a higher quality than any government program could ever achieve.


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 13, 2011)

deadlifter405 said:


> Absolutely correct you are!
> 
> Under all circumstances, given the ability to enrich themselves personally, people will always outproduce at a higher quality than any government program could ever achieve.



what is this rubbish you speak. man is motivated by the betterment of all. we love to pay for the crack head down the street who has chosen a life of poverty


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## LAM (Aug 13, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> because we have a for profit healthcare system we have the wrong model? is that why we have the best doctors, and the best treatments?



the US does not have the best healthcare it just has the most expensive.  in 1970 US healthcare accounting for 1/10 of personal consumption expenditures it now accounts for 18% by 2020+ that will be closer to 25% equal to what most people would spend on a mortgage.  good luck saving and having healthcare.  US healthcare is designed to be expensive, we have 1/3 the number of doctors as most country's but US immigration policy prohibits more foreign born doctors to come work in the US, this would decrease healthcare costs by 25%.  Administrative costs are the 2nd leading reason they are also by design.  Healthcare in the US could easily be decreased by 50%.

from the WHO World Rankings:

1         France
2         Italy
3         San Marino
4         Andorra
5         Malta
6         Singapore
7         Spain
8         Oman
9         Austria
10        Japan
11        Norway
12        Portugal
13        Monaco
14        Greece
15        Iceland
16        Luxembourg
17        Netherlands
18        United  Kingdom
19        Ireland
20        Switzerland
21        Belgium
22        Colombia
23        Sweden
24        Cyprus
25        Germany
26        Saudi Arabia
27        United  Arab  Emirates
28        Israel
29        Morocco
30        Canada
31        Finland
32        Australia
33        Chile
34        Denmark
35        Dominica
36        Costa Rica
37        United States of America


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## LAM (Aug 13, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> what is this rubbish you speak. man is motivated by the betterment of all. we love to pay for the crack head down the street who has chosen a life of poverty



there are 2x the number of whites in poverty as blacks, 20m whites and 9m blacks. and according to the Census reports on poverty less than 3% of the poverty population is there full time, most fall in and out depending on the economy.


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## DOMS (Aug 13, 2011)

LAM said:


> there are 2x the number of whites in poverty as blacks, 20m whites and 9m blacks. and according to the Census reports on poverty less than 3% of the poverty population is there full time, most fall in and out depending on the economy.



Total US popluation: 308,745,538
Percentage white: 72% (222,296,787)
Percentage black: 13% (40,136,919)
Difference: 5.5x more whites than black

Based on your numbers:
Percentage of whites in poverty: 8%
Percentage of blacks in poverty: 23%
Difference: per capita, there are 3x as many blacks in poverty as there are whites.

Word of the day: disproportionate
Bonus term: financial drain
Fun fact: bio-chem never mentioned, or even alluded to, race. He just mentioned crack addicts and the poor. You brought up black people in a way relevant to those topics.


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## LAM (Aug 13, 2011)

DOMS said:


> Total US popluation: 308,745,538
> Percentage white: 72% (222,296,787)
> Percentage black: 13% (40,136,919)
> Difference: 5.5x more whites than black
> ...



bio-chem didn't have to mention it, it quite obvious that he (and you) are racists to varying degrees so it was implied when he mentioned "crack" why didn't he mention meth?

and during which decades was employment and wages fair to minorities in the US?

regardless the percentage doesn't matter, if you are talking about shear numbers.  asians males now have the highest average median incomes in the US maybe you guys should be worried about them instead of the ones on the bottom of the income ladder.


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## bio-chem (Aug 13, 2011)

LAM said:


> and during which decades was employment and wages fair to minorities in the US?



I work right next to a black guy who makes just as much money as I do doing the exact same job. come to think of it this guy is an immigrant from Africa. Wonder why he came here?


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## DOMS (Aug 13, 2011)

LAM said:


> and during which decades was employment and wages fair to minorities in the US?



How many decades of special treatment will it take before black people stop blaming others for their fuck ups? Because it's been 30 years of funding, education programs, and organizations are _for blacks only_. Stuff that whites are not allowed to have.


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## DOMS (Aug 13, 2011)

LAM said:


> bio-chem didn't have to mention it, it quite obvious that he (and you) are racists to varying degrees so it was implied when he mentioned "crack" why didn't he mention meth?



Oh, he didn't actually _say it_. _You_ just felt that he _implied it_.

So, bio-chem said crack-head and you cried "racism!" Yet you're saying that meth-heads are synonymous with whites? How very non-racist of you.

Ah, the hypocrisy that passes for equality these days.

Also, I didn't chime in with any facts regarding race until you started throwing the issue of race at bio-chem. But I must have somehow implied it, even though the only thing I said in this thread was that the US has some of the richest people in the world.


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## bio-chem (Aug 13, 2011)

LAM said:


> the US does not have the best healthcare it just has the most expensive.  in 1970 US healthcare accounting for 1/10 of personal consumption expenditures it now accounts for 18% by 2020+ that will be closer to 25% equal to what most people would spend on a mortgage.  good luck saving and having healthcare.  US healthcare is designed to be expensive, we have 1/3 the number of doctors as most country's but US immigration policy prohibits more foreign born doctors to come work in the US, this would decrease healthcare costs by 25%.  Administrative costs are the 2nd leading reason they are also by design.  Healthcare in the US could easily be decreased by 50%.
> 
> from the WHO World Rankings:



I in no way am going to deny that there are problems with healthcare here in the US, but that doesn't mean the US doesn't have the best healthcare. When my sister was diagnosed with Hodgkin s Lymphoma at 24 and her two children where 3 and 1. you can bet your ass I'm happy she was treated at Stanford University and not in France. I don't give a shit what the WHO says. those rankings don't mean shit when it comes to real world application. 

Don't bring up foreign born doctors because you look ignorant. I work with them daily and I can tell you it isn't immigration policy that is the hold up.


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## bio-chem (Aug 13, 2011)

LAM said:


> bio-chem didn't have to mention it, it quite obvious that he (and you) are racists to varying degrees so it was implied when he mentioned "crack" why didn't he mention meth?
> 
> and during which decades was employment and wages fair to minorities in the US?
> 
> regardless the percentage doesn't matter, if you are talking about shear numbers.  asians males now have the highest average median incomes in the US maybe you guys should be worried about them instead of the ones on the bottom of the income ladder.



why should we worry about those who are successful here? Are they causing my insurance to go up? 

*I was not making any kind of racial remark when I said crack. Your read into it because you are a douche bag.* you can feel free to replace crack with meth, cocaine, or any other addictive drug that leaves people seeking medical attention that they can't pay for because they spent their money on drugs. You may also replace crack with alcohol, or tobacco if you wish as those are easily the biggest substances causing a drain on healthcare. The reason i didn't mention meth along with crack is I didn't feel it was necessary to mention all drugs available to members of our society. The fact is you are so thin skinned that you turn anything into a racial remark because you are a fucking pussy. Fuck you for calling me a racist. I'm done with you LAM I live with 2 individuals of Philippians birth, I speak 2 foreign languages, and i'm not a racist. I am however done with you. Continue to spout your worthless garbage to the people around you. DOMS has your stupid shit well taken care of.


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## DEATH MATCH (Aug 13, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> More courts have ruled in favor of the healthcare bill. Odds aren't looking to be in your favor.


 

Your a complete dumbass look it up idiot 27 States are Suing Over Obamacare 27 of 50 States Now Challenging Constitutionality of Obamacare in Court the latest Atlanta court just filed friday. And most likely this Supreme Court will hear this case around election time when your boy Barry is losing his ass off
And I was just waiting until Lam cried racists bevause he's the biggest baby around


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## Zaphod (Aug 14, 2011)

DEATH MATCH said:


> Your a complete dumbass look it up idiot 27 States are Suing Over Obamacare 27 of 50 States Now Challenging Constitutionality of Obamacare in Court the latest Atlanta court just filed friday. And most likely this Supreme Court will hear this case around election time when your boy Barry is losing his ass off
> And I was just waiting until Lam cried racists bevause he's the biggest baby around



Speaking of looking things up, moron, look at the number of times it has already gone to court.  There are more rulings in favor of the healthcare bill than there are against it.  

You really need to improve your reading comprehension.


----------



## LAM (Aug 14, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> I in no way am going to deny that there are problems with healthcare here in the US, but that doesn't mean the US doesn't have the best healthcare. When my sister was diagnosed with Hodgkin s Lymphoma at 24 and her two children where 3 and 1. you can bet your ass I'm happy she was treated at Stanford University and not in France. I don't give a shit what the WHO says. those rankings don't mean shit when it comes to real world application.
> 
> Don't bring up foreign born doctors because you look ignorant. I work with them daily and I can tell you it isn't immigration policy that is the hold up.



the US does have excellent testing and screening methods for cancer but that is only a small portion of healthcare.  the WHO rankings are probably not a true representation but regardless the US still ranks at the bottom of out of all industrialized countries in terms of preventable deaths.  this is due to a lack of health-care coverage over the entire span of the lifetime.

the immigration act of 1990 opened the door for md's and other foreign born professionals entering the US on J-1 or H-1B visas but that has all changed since 9-11, it's back to the "cold war" mentality.   my mailman married a Japanese woman who I believe has a double masters or PhD was denied entry into the US last month because her employer made her join the JCP.  yes in 2011 some still feel communism is a threat to america, if it wasn't so sad it would be funny.

Below is a paper the current state of the US and the shortage of MD's.  with the current state of the US economy and the economic outlook of the future, it's not looking good med school is expensive.

https://www.aamc.org/download/82874/data/helpwanted.pdf


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## Conan63 (Aug 14, 2011)

Glad to see this happen


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## DOMS (Aug 14, 2011)

This seemed oddly appropriate:


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## bio-chem (Aug 14, 2011)

LAM said:


> the US does have excellent testing and screening methods for cancer but that is only a small portion of healthcare. *Dont forget the best treatments as well* the WHO rankings are probably not a true representation*Then why bring them up?* but regardless the US still ranks at the bottom of out of all industrialized countries in terms of preventable deaths.  this is due to a lack of health-care coverage over the entire span of the lifetime.*this is due to smokers and drinkers and fatties not taking care of their bodies*
> 
> the immigration act of 1990 opened the door for md's and other foreign born professionals entering the US on J-1 or H-1B visas but that has all changed since 9-11, it's back to the "cold war" mentality.   my mailman married a Japanese woman who I believe has a double masters or PhD was denied entry into the US last month because her employer made her join the JCP.  yes in 2011 some still feel communism is a threat to america, if it wasn't so sad it would be funny.*As a guy who works everyday with J1 and H1B doctors I can assure you we are not lacking for available candidates here. It is available positions. How many states don't use all of their available exemptions each year? We send doctors home to their own countries each year because the positions are getting filled with US born candidates*
> 
> ...



Med School is expensive as it should be. Health care should be expensive. It's crazy good technology being applied by people with 15 years of training. This isn't a car mechanic here. Potential doctors are choosing other career paths because reimbursements are getting cut so low by medicare and medicaid that they are no longer able to survive in today's market. I make as much as some primary care physicians and I have a bachelors. While they went to a 4 year undergrad, 4 years of med school, 1 year of internship, and a 3 year residency before they can start their practice  wheres the return on their investment at the end of the day when they get to start their practice and they are hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and their potential income is always going down? I'll tell you for sure the answer isn't to go to a system run by government that in order to save on healthcare always cuts back on reimbursements to doctors with disregard to how much the treatment or procedure actually costs.

We are moving down a path right now LAM that is going to be your worst nightmare. one in which the disparity between rich and poor is going to get worse and you won't even see it coming till it's too late. In Canada you are seeing hospitals pop up that are outside of the Canadian Health system. Even though individuals pay their taxes and have open access to the Canadian health system for free if they have the money they are paying more to go to these private health organizations. I wonder why? Interesting to note Canada was higher than the US on the WHO ranking you posted, and then admitted probably *wasn't the best indicator*

You can read all the reports in the world regarding an issue and still have no idea what is going on in that industry unless you are actually in the trenches.


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 14, 2011)

DOMS said:


> This seemed oddly appropriate:



I wish i could rep you again DOMS, but I think this should be posted a lot


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## danzik17 (Aug 14, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> I wish i could rep you again DOMS, but I think this should be posted a lot



Why?  I'm not disagreeing with you that he shouldn't have responded to something you "implied" and perhaps should have asked a direct question, but this is a debate over healthcare, no?  Why let this turn into a "Oh you're just a liberal!".

Just venting because all too often, I see this bullshit on both sides, especially on the national stage where it quite honestly has no place.  "Oh, you're just an extremist liberal", "Oh, you're a nutbag conservative", and so forth.  It contributes nothing to the debate.


----------



## DOMS (Aug 14, 2011)

danzik17 said:


> Why?  I'm not disagreeing with you that he shouldn't have responded to something you "implied" and perhaps should have asked a direct question, but this is a debate over healthcare, no?  Why let this turn into a "Oh you're just a liberal!".



bio-chem didn't imply _anything _regard race. Nothing at all. I only brought up race after LAM did used it as a reply to a post that mentioned nothing about race. 

The only other thing I said in this thread prior to that was that the gap in wealth in this country is easily explained by the USA having some of the wealthiest people on the planet. And I only brought that up in rebuttal to something LAM brought up.

So you can take up your question with LAM.



danzik17 said:


> Just venting because all too often, I see this bullshit on both sides, especially on the national stage where it quite honestly has no place.  "Oh, you're just an extremist liberal", "Oh, you're a nutbag conservative", and so forth.  It contributes nothing to the debate.



Which is how the politicians like it.


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 14, 2011)

danzik17 said:


> Why?  I'm not disagreeing with you that he shouldn't have responded to something you "implied" and perhaps should have asked a direct question, but this is a debate over healthcare, no?  Why let this turn into a "Oh you're just a liberal!".
> 
> Just venting because all too often, I see this bullshit on both sides, especially on the national stage where it quite honestly has no place.  "Oh, you're just an extremist liberal", "Oh, you're a nutbag conservative", and so forth.  It contributes nothing to the debate.



I didn't "imply" anything. Nothing I said was, or was intended to be racist. 

Way too often race is played in a discussion it does not belong for the sole desire to cloud the issue. Something that in my mind takes away from real racism that should be stamped out anywhere we find it. I think the picture DOMS posted does a great job of addressing that very problem in our society right now of calling racism in order to take away from the real issue at hand, in this case healthcare debate


----------



## Zaphod (Aug 14, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> Med School is expensive as it should be. Health care should be expensive. It's crazy good technology being applied by people with 15 years of training. This isn't a car mechanic here. Potential doctors are choosing other career paths because reimbursements are getting cut so low by medicare and medicaid that they are no longer able to survive in today's market. I make as much as some primary care physicians and I have a bachelors. While they went to a 4 year undergrad, 4 years of med school, 1 year of internship, and a 3 year residency before they can start their practice  wheres the return on their investment at the end of the day when they get to start their practice and they are hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and their potential income is always going down? I'll tell you for sure the answer isn't to go to a system run by government that in order to save on healthcare always cuts back on reimbursements to doctors with disregard to how much the treatment or procedure actually costs.
> 
> We are moving down a path right now LAM that is going to be your worst nightmare. one in which the disparity between rich and poor is going to get worse and you won't even see it coming till it's too late. In Canada you are seeing hospitals pop up that are outside of the Canadian Health system. Even though individuals pay their taxes and have open access to the Canadian health system for free if they have the money they are paying more to go to these private health organizations. I wonder why? Interesting to note Canada was higher than the US on the WHO ranking you posted, and then admitted probably *wasn't the best indicator*
> 
> You can read all the reports in the world regarding an issue and still have no idea what is going on in that industry unless you are actually in the trenches.



An education doesn't automatically entitle someone to a huge income.  Talk about an entitlement complex.


----------



## M4A3 (Aug 14, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> An education doesn't automatically entitle someone to a huge income.  Talk about an entitlement complex.



Just like being a poor welfare leach shouldn't entitle someone to healthcare.


----------



## DOMS (Aug 14, 2011)

M4A3 said:


> Just like being a poor welfare leach shouldn't entitle someone to healthcare.


Awesome!


----------



## DEATH MATCH (Aug 14, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> Speaking of looking things up, moron, look at the number of times it has already gone to court. There are more rulings in favor of the healthcare bill than there are against it.
> 
> You really need to improve your reading comprehension.


 

You have to be the dumbest idiot on this board 27 states ruled against it that means more courts ruled againts it you dumb ass check your math. Oh mabey you think theres 57 states like Barry did. 50 states total idiot. 27 is bigger then 23 moron so how in gods name can you say more courts ruled in favor, Moron


----------



## Zaphod (Aug 14, 2011)

DEATH MATCH said:


> You have to be the dumbest idiot on this board 27 states ruled against it that means more courts ruled againts it you dumb ass check your math. Oh mabey you think theres 57 states like Barry did. 50 states total idiot. 27 is bigger then 23 moron so how in gods name can you say more courts ruled in favor, Moron



Speaking of stupid, 27 state attornies general filed a suit against it.  The states haven't ruled against it, more federal courts have ruled in its favor.  You're a fucking idiot.  Do the world a favor and go hang yourself.  You're dragging down the average IQ.


----------



## Zaphod (Aug 14, 2011)

M4A3 said:


> Just like being a poor welfare leach shouldn't entitle someone to healthcare.



Which has what to do with someone going to med school?


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 14, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> An education doesn't automatically entitle someone to a huge income.  Talk about an entitlement complex.



how about keeping your ass alive, or the life of your family member when it is ravaged by cancer, or some other disease? Are they entitled to a huge income then? This isn't entitlement by birth. if you want to call it an entitlement at all it is well earned. Every day i go to work i expect to be paid commensurate with my skills and success. If not I find other work. So will doctors. don't forget that


----------



## M4A3 (Aug 14, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> Which has what to do with someone going to med school?



Just like a liberal. A total failure to recognize a double standard. 

You were speaking of an entitlement mentality. Welfare leaches have that in spades.


----------



## irish_2003 (Aug 14, 2011)

let's see....teachers become teachers for the children, doctors become doctors to help people.....they don't have the right to complain about their pay/benefits.....the professions didn't choose them....they chose the profession......

i'm against obamacare and i'm in the medical field


----------



## AdmiralRichard (Aug 14, 2011)




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## Zaphod (Aug 14, 2011)

M4A3 said:


> Just like a liberal. A total failure to recognize a double standard.
> 
> You were speaking of an entitlement mentality. Welfare leaches have that in spades.



I recognize the double standard, you ignore it as such.  You have a problem with people who feel entitled to free healthcare and yet you have no problem with those who feel entitled to a huge salary because of their education.


----------



## Zaphod (Aug 14, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> how about keeping your ass alive, or the life of your family member when it is ravaged by cancer, or some other disease? Are they entitled to a huge income then? This isn't entitlement by birth. if you want to call it an entitlement at all it is well earned. Every day i go to work i expect to be paid commensurate with my skills and success. If not I find other work. So will doctors. don't forget that



By your definition it's an entitlement.  If you can't see that then


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 14, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> I recognize the double standard, you ignore it as such.  You have a problem with people who feel entitled to free healthcare and yet you have no problem with those who feel entitled to a huge salary because of their education.



it's not an entitlement for education you dolt. are you a fucking communist? It's a fair wage commensurate with their skills. Skills you can only receive with that education. This isn't like starting your own software company and becoming a billionaire. this is about knowing how to fight cancer. replace someones heart, or heal the brain.


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 14, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> By your definition it's an entitlement.  If you can't see that then



Show me where i gave a definition of an entitlement?


----------



## M4A3 (Aug 15, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> I recognize the double standard, you ignore it as such.  You have a problem with people who feel entitled to free healthcare and yet you have no problem with those who feel entitled to a huge salary because of their education.



Where the fuck did I say that?

I think people get paid based on what their worth. People with advanced degrees trend much higher over their lifetime in income. However, if you have a Ph.D. in Art History, you probably aren't going to make shit over your lifetime.

The market dictates what someone's skill level is worth. Education is a good method at improving one's job skills and level of income, but it doesn't entitle you to shit.

Clear now jackass?


----------



## LAM (Aug 15, 2011)

M4A3 said:


> I think people get paid based on what their worth. People with advanced degrees trend much higher over their lifetime in income. However, if you have a Ph.D. in Art History, you probably aren't going to make shit over your lifetime.
> 
> The market dictates what someone's skill level is worth. Education is a good method at improving one's job skills and level of income, but it doesn't entitle you to shit.



but in reality neither one of those statements hold true anymore.  historically the college graduate will always earn more over the course of the lifetime than the non-college graduate.  but in many job sectors having a MA or PhD does not increase earnings.  and now having a college degree isn't even the lock it used to be due to high unemployment and the loss of many types of jobs, some due to outsourcing and others lost to technological advances.  currently 25% of college grads are underemployed and the college loan default rate is ever increasing.

the "market" couldn't be anymore manipulated. 

non-union workers and especially those in right to work states have no bargaining power over wage increases and in times of high unemployment simply finding a better paying job is no longer a reality, it is the past never to return.  many workers today are not even getting cost of living increases so they constantly earn less money, year after year at the same job.  since Nixon the CPI has been constantly manipulated under various presidents to understate inflation and this is why many and especially since the 80's (union busting) have experienced wage stagnation.  you also have to factor in the difference in the pricing of goods and services from the metro to non-metro area.

the under-reporting of inflation by the CPI is one of the main reasons why there has been such an increase in consumer debt since the 80's.  when combined with the new powers of the FRB granted under the Monetary Control Act of 1980 it's pretty much been a wrap for the middle class.

the "fix" has been in for a long time


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## DEATH MATCH (Aug 15, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> Speaking of stupid, 27 state attornies general filed a suit against it. The states haven't ruled against it, more federal courts have ruled in its favor. You're a fucking idiot. Do the world a favor and go hang yourself. You're dragging down the average IQ.


 

Again your a complete Idiot and if you think dumbass that there are more federal courts in the 27 states then there are in the 23 states your a bigger loser then I thought you already were.But in the end Barrys health care will be tossed out like his ass will be in the next election.


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## Zaphod (Aug 15, 2011)

DEATH MATCH said:


> Again your a complete Idiot and if you think dumbass that there are more federal courts in the 27 states then there are in the 23 states your a bigger loser then I thought you already were.But in the end Barrys health care will be tossed out like his ass will be in the next election.



You're an inbred retard.  When you get a clue come on back.  Until then go eat a big bag of black dicks.


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## Zaphod (Aug 15, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> Show me where i gave a definition of an entitlement?



You gave it when you said people with a college education deserve more income than anybody else.  You were one of those kids that didn't have a job until mom & dad told you to get one in college, weren't you?


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## Zaphod (Aug 15, 2011)

M4A3 said:


> Where the fuck did I say that?
> 
> I think people get paid based on what their worth. People with advanced degrees trend much higher over their lifetime in income. However, if you have a Ph.D. in Art History, you probably aren't going to make shit over your lifetime.
> 
> ...



I didn't say you said anything about it, just that you're ignoring it.


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## anxious1 (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm a "disabled vet" so I qualify for FREE VA medical, yet still wish I had a different provider. 

That article is askew however, where it says that once he pushed Obama care that jobs started to drop and debt increased... Come on, debt was already sky high from Bush, and jobs were already being lost. It just continued. 

I agree that a national healthcare is B.S. Just disagree with the manipulations placed upon timeframes in the article.


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## Dale Mabry (Aug 15, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> I'm a "disabled vet" so I qualify for FREE VA medical, yet still wish I had a different provider.
> 
> .



So what prevents you from seeking alternative care?


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## MDR (Aug 15, 2011)

Dale Mabry said:


> So what prevents you from seeking alternative care?


 
I'm guessing being on disability the main obstacle is financial.


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## anxious1 (Aug 15, 2011)

Dale Mabry said:


> So what prevents you from seeking alternative care?




It is quite simple. I made a decision to get married and save money up to but a business with my wife. So in the end it is my decision not to seek elsewhere for now. 
Once we have more income from our business, then I will be going elsewhere for medical coverage. Until then I am getting VA coverage for an injury sustained on the job. Other than that I don't need medical.    

A pin-a-day keeps the docs away.


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## anxious1 (Aug 15, 2011)

MDR said:


> I'm guessing being on disability the main obstacle is financial.



I am not on disability, I am just disabled to a certain extent. I am far too anxious all the time not to work. Haha 

"disabled-vet" is kind of a one-size-fits-all term used by the VA. 

Finacials are the reason, yes. It is my decision to put those funds towards a future instead of into a secondary healthcare plan that keeps me from going elsewhere for now.


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## bio-chem (Aug 15, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> You gave it when you said people with a college education deserve more income than anybody else.  You were one of those kids that didn't have a job until mom & dad told you to get one in college, weren't you?



I think you should show where I wrote that dumb ass. I never said people with a college education deserve more income than anybody else. I said Doctors who have completed 15 years of training deserve every penny they get.

I had a job since I was 13. I put myself through college and I was the first in my family to go to a 4 year university. fuck off until you get a clue. cunt.


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## MDR (Aug 15, 2011)

anxious1 said:


> I am not on disability, I am just disabled to a certain extent. I am far too anxious all the time not to work. Haha
> 
> "disabled-vet" is kind of a one-size-fits-all term used by the VA.
> 
> Finacials are the reason, yes. It is my decision to put those funds towards a future instead of into a secondary healthcare plan that keeps me from going elsewhere for now.


 

Makes sense.  Good for you for focusing on your future.  Sorry to hear that services available at the VA aren't better.  Seems to me that this is a problem that needs to be fixed immediately.  It is a shame that our country does not do a better job of taking care of the men and women who serve in the military.


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## anxious1 (Aug 15, 2011)

MDR said:


> Makes sense.  Good for you for focusing on your future.  Sorry to hear that services available at the VA aren't better.  Seems to me that this is a problem that needs to be fixed immediately.  It is a shame that our country does not do a better job of taking care of the men and women who serve in the military.




Thank you. 
It isn't quite the services that are lacking, (yes some lag, but no more than kaiser). The reason the VA is such a mess, is because of all the policies that surround everything they do, or can't do. As far as getting imaging, they are incredibly accommodating, yet to see a specialist after that scan takes some jumping around at times. 

I can sit here and bit** or I can become apart of the solution... So I have geared myself towards resolving this issue in time, and hopefully some others that plague our county.  Basically, VOTE FOR ME! haha 


(I am only speaking from my experiences with the VA, I understand there are exceptions to everything).


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## M4A3 (Aug 15, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> I didn't say you said anything about it, just that you're ignoring it.




I'm going to start ignoring everything you post, because what you post is always retarded.


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## Zaphod (Aug 16, 2011)

bio-chem said:


> I think you should show where I wrote that dumb ass. I never said people with a college education deserve more income than anybody else. I said Doctors who have completed 15 years of training deserve every penny they get.
> 
> I had a job since I was 13. I put myself through college and I was the first in my family to go to a 4 year university. fuck off until you get a clue. cunt.



Nice!


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## Zaphod (Aug 16, 2011)

M4A3 said:


> I'm going to start ignoring everything you post, because what you post is always retarded.



Good.  It's real easy to do.  Genius that you are you should be able to figure it out.


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## DEATH MATCH (Aug 17, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> You're an inbred retard. When you get a clue come on back. Until then go eat a big bag of black dicks.


 

Dumb ass thinks there is more courts in those 27 states then 23 your a complete moron barry lover. Shouldnt you have Barrys dick in your mouth since he's your hero.Its amazing you came up with that answer about the courts it just makes you look more stupid then you already are.


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## AdmiralRichard (Aug 17, 2011)




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## Zaphod (Aug 18, 2011)

DEATH MATCH said:


> Dumb ass thinks there is more courts in those 27 states then 23 your a complete moron barry lover. Shouldnt you have Barrys dick in your mouth since he's your hero.Its amazing you came up with that answer about the courts it just makes you look more stupid then you already are.



I'll clue you in on a little known fact.  Those courts handle more than one case.  They hide information like that in books.  They also dispense it in these places called schools.  Try going to one.

Also it is ultimately the United States Supreme Court that decides whether a law is Constitutional.  Some state attorney general doesn't do that.


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## DEATH MATCH (Aug 20, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> I'll clue you in on a little known fact. Those courts handle more than one case. They hide information like that in books. They also dispense it in these places called schools. Try going to one.
> 
> Also it is ultimately the United States Supreme Court that decides whether a law is Constitutional. Some state attorney general doesn't do that.


 

You stupid dumb ass I already told you that in my earlier post idiot that it would go to the supremem court you pathetic little kid.Your a idiot like I said those 27 states have more fed courts . Plain dumb


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## Zaphod (Aug 20, 2011)

DEATH MATCH said:


> You stupid dumb ass I already told you that in my earlier post idiot that it would go to the supremem court you pathetic little kid.Your a idiot like I said those 27 states have more fed courts . Plain dumb



Go back and read everything you've posted.  You make absolutely no sense.  Someone for whom english is a third language makes more sense than you.  

Show me where those 27 federal court cases were losses to the healthcare bill.


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## LAM (Aug 20, 2011)

only parts were ruled unconstitutional.

anyone that thinks the US doesn't need healthcare reform has not one clue about economics.


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## irish_2003 (Aug 20, 2011)

LAM said:


> only parts were ruled unconstitutional.
> 
> anyone that thinks the US doesn't need healthcare reform has not one clue about economics.



i think we can all agree that reform IS needed......it's just a difference of opinions on what and how it should be done.....

once the "baby boom" generation dies things will be better.....


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## LAM (Aug 20, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> i think we can all agree that reform IS needed......it's just a difference of opinions on what and how it should be done.....
> 
> once the "baby boom" generation dies things will be better.....



actually things are going to get much, much worst...

they are the last generation to make a decent wages once adjusted for inflation.  the replacement of low paying jobs in the service sector means that future generations are going to make less money not be able to finance houses or save much for retirement.  you simply can't do squat with wages of $8-$14 except barely pay your current expenses.  this is one of the reasons why the GDP has steadily declined since the late 70's and 80's.

the flood of housing back into the market when baby boomers start dying will cause a rapid excess of homes on the market causing low occupancy rates, home values will plummet along with equity.


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## irish_2003 (Aug 20, 2011)

we definitely NEED a population reduction for that age range......that will help balance some things out....it's not the overall solution, but it is a major factor in health care costs


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## Dale Mabry (Aug 20, 2011)

irish_2003 said:


> once the "baby boom" generation dies things will be better.....



You are out of your mind.  The baby boomer generation is the last generation to grow up healthy, performing physical work every day and eating normal portions of healthy food.  They've only been eating like shit and laying around for 20 years.  It is going to get much worse, our healthcare costs are going to start going up logarithmically in the next decade.


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## DEATH MATCH (Aug 20, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> Go back and read everything you've posted. You make absolutely no sense. Someone for whom english is a third language makes more sense than you.
> 
> Show me where those 27 federal court cases were losses to the healthcare bill.


 

Again you dumbass 27 states have ruled and filed suit that Barrys health care is unconstitutional and want it thrown out so that leaves 23 states left dumb ass . And like I said in those 27 states theres more federal courts then in  those 23 states dumb ass. And you said theres more federal courts for the health care moron which there isnt


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## irish_2003 (Aug 20, 2011)

LAM i already know the liberal answer to this question, but what would you do? what's your plan? put a plan on the table.....


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## Zaphod (Aug 20, 2011)

DEATH MATCH said:


> Again you dumbass 27 states have ruled and filed suit that Barrys health care is unconstitutional and want it thrown out so that leaves 23 states left dumb ass . And like I said in those 27 states theres more federal courts then in  those 23 states dumb ass. And you said theres more federal courts for the health care moron which there isnt



Once again a state attorney general can't rule something un-Constitutional.  

Just so you know I'm finding your idiotic rants very entertaining.


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## sofargone561 (Aug 21, 2011)

The Obama Deception HQ Full length version - YouTube



all i have to say is *RON PAUL BEFORE ITS TOOL LATE!*


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## DEATH MATCH (Aug 22, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> Once again a state attorney general can't rule something un-Constitutional.
> 
> Just so you know I'm finding your idiotic rants very entertaining.


 



Hey Idiot you made your self look like a fool by saying more federal courts ruled in favor of Barrys health care when in fact the federal courts in those 27 states have ruled it unconstitutional so that leaves again 23 states which have less fedreal courts in them idiot.


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## LAM (Aug 22, 2011)

DEATH MATCH said:


> Hey Idiot you made your self look like a fool by saying more federal courts ruled in favor of Barrys health care when in fact the federal courts in those 27 states have ruled it unconstitutional so that leaves again 23 states which have less fedreal courts in them idiot.



only the individual mandate was ruled unconstitutional.

11th Circuit Declares "Individual Mandate" Unconstitutional

one thing that many against healthcare reform don't realize is that the costs are going to increase exponentially in the future.  as healthcare costs become unaffordable to many and drop out of coverage the rates for those still with coverage are going to increase to make up for lost profits.


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## GearsMcGilf (Aug 22, 2011)

LAM said:


> only the individual mandate was ruled unconstitutional.
> 
> 11th Circuit Declares "Individual Mandate" Unconstitutional
> 
> one thing that many against healthcare reform don't realize is that the costs are going to increase exponentially in the future.  as healthcare costs become unaffordable to many and drop out of coverage the rates for those still with coverage are going to increase to make up for lost profits.



Well, not just the evil profit, but also the higher level of risk in the new pool of insured people (i.e. pre-existing conditions).


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## LAM (Aug 22, 2011)

GearsMcGilf said:


> Well, not just the evil profit, but also the higher level of risk in the new pool of insured people (i.e. pre-existing conditions).



I never said profits were evil, those are your words.  severely income inequality causes systemic problems with any economy.  imbalances cause a loss of homeostasis in all things, this is science 101.  besides the meddling of the FRB in the "market economy" of the US these imbalances are leading causes of economic burst/recession cycles.  another thing the US excels at in the OECD.

if you haven't realized by now the low wage neo-liberal economic model sucks and doesn't work, unless the intentions were to tank the economy.  this economy that relys too heavily on capital and investment that started in the 80's has come to an end and now the US is FUBAR.

the rate of increases in health care costs are not sustainable either, not when 50% of the country is making 1980's wages and the credit has been cut off.  it's kind of funny, these greedy ass company's have starved themselves.  will see a decrease in profits in many sectors in upcoming years.


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## Zaphod (Aug 22, 2011)

DEATH MATCH said:


> Hey Idiot you made your self look like a fool by saying more federal courts ruled in favor of Barrys health care when in fact the federal courts in those 27 states have ruled it unconstitutional so that leaves again 23 states which have less fedreal courts in them idiot.



Get your facts straight, you stupid illiterate fuckstick.  Better yet, just learn some facts so you quit shaming the human race with your braindead moron banter.  Calling you a retard is a dig on retards.  They know there is something wrong with them, you don't.  Now go eat a dry lump of poison and shoot yourself in the testicles before you have a chance to blow your genetically shortchanged wad in some crack whore and knock her ass up.


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## djash (Aug 22, 2011)

good post


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## DEATH MATCH (Aug 23, 2011)

Zaphod said:


> Get your facts straight, you stupid illiterate fuckstick. Better yet, just learn some facts so you quit shaming the human race with your braindead moron banter. Calling you a retard is a dig on retards. They know there is something wrong with them, you don't. Now go eat a dry lump of poison and shoot yourself in the testicles before you have a chance to blow your genetically shortchanged wad in some crack whore and knock her ass up.


 

This is how Liberals act when they are wrong you idiot.Go back to your post idiot and read where you said more federal courts were in favor of barrys health care idiot. Simple math 27 states have more federal courts then the 23 states left idiot.You are truly are a idiot and look stupid now.


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## BigPapaPump68 (Aug 23, 2011)

Whether I agree with everything LAM says or not at least in almost every argument he makes, he posts real citations from legitimate sources


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## bio-chem (Aug 23, 2011)

I'm pretty convinced those two are having a fake argument with each other just to get their post counts up and muck up a political thread because there are so damn many of them


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## Zaphod (Aug 24, 2011)

DEATH MATCH said:


> This is how Liberals act when they are wrong you idiot.Go back to your post idiot and read where you said more federal courts were in favor of barrys health care idiot. Simple math 27 states have more federal courts then the 23 states left idiot.You are truly are a idiot and look stupid now.



Who looks stupid?  Read everything you've ever typed.  Go back to school.


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## DEATH MATCH (Aug 28, 2011)

Hey go back and read your post that you said more federal courts ruled in favor of barrys health care . But you are 100% wrong  27 states have more federal courts in them and those 27 states are repealing barrys health care dummy. So that leads 23 states with less federal courts. See dummy. Now dont go edit your thread because I made a nice copy of your post just incase you try to think your slick . Doesnt suck to be wrong in front of all these members and you keep running your punk kid mouth


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