# hgH fragment + Oral Turnibol?? (cut cycle)



## Dr. Tox (Mar 14, 2011)

Would oral Turnibol at 20-40 mg per day make a good cut cycle, combined with hgH fragment? Low calorie, cardio and weight training for 6 weeks. 
Stats 
5"11 224 
age 31. @ 14 % pbf

Goal 196
Age 31 @ 10 % pbf. Shredded and vascular

Any reco on what I can do better. I purchased or am purchasing the above tomorrow. Thanks!


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## cutright (Mar 15, 2011)

Plus Testosterone would be a nice cutting cycle! Keep ur test levels high run an AI and run the frag and Tbol. Test promotes fat burning and improved lbm why wouldn't u add it? Good luck bro


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## stylus187 (Mar 18, 2011)

Dr. Tox said:


> Would oral Turnibol at 20-40 mg per day make a good cut cycle, combined with hgH fragment? Low calorie, cardio and weight training for 6 weeks.
> Stats
> 5"11 224
> age 31. @ 14 % pbf
> ...


 I would maybe add some igfl3r to entire cycle no longer then 6 weeks for igf though. I like Tbol, its dry and little to no water retention, very little estro conversion. Your diet has to be really focused. in all honesty, its gonna take you about 3 months of hard training and strict ass diet, to drop that much bf you might want to throw in some t3 and dnp


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## Dr. Tox (Mar 18, 2011)

What dose do you reco for the t Bol. Currently on 20 mg split in the day to try to keep serum levels constant. I am tempted to do igf but hesitant because I do not want to become insulin dependent. Father is type II diabetic. As for the T3 have u tried T3 with Clen? If you take T3 will it downregulate natural thyroid production. I am willing to take risk but always weigh it against benefit. I'm not 22 anymore!


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## purplerain (Mar 19, 2011)

cutright said:


> Plus Testosterone would be a nice cutting cycle! Keep ur test levels high run an AI and run the frag and Tbol. Test promotes fat burning and improved lbm why wouldn't u add it? Good luck bro



Since PRIMO is FAKED so much would that stack be a cool alternative cutting stack ?


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## Dr. Tox (Mar 19, 2011)

What does that have to do with this thread? Please explain.


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## Klutch (Mar 20, 2011)

keep us posted on your fat loss im intrested in the that same cycle or frag with anavar...


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## Dr. Tox (Mar 20, 2011)

Klutch, I will continue updating my progress on this thread. Only a few days in and starting to feel tighter in the belly and waist. Seems site specific (the fragment). Also kinda weird but me and my wife are getting the same side. Extreme thirst. We probably need to drink more H20 but I am curious if others got this thirst from the frag. Being in the medical field I know this can be elevated glucose in the bloodstream. Potentially I would estimate that the frag attacks stored fat reserves then converts then to glycogen and ultimately glucose. Is this correct? Has anyone checked their glucose levels while on the fragment or a few minutes after?


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## cutright (Mar 20, 2011)

Dr. Tox said:


> Klutch, I will continue updating my progress on this thread. Only a few days in and starting to feel tighter in the belly and waist. Seems site specific (the fragment). Also kinda weird but me and my wife are getting the same side. Extreme thirst. We probably need to drink more H20 but I am curious if others got this thirst from the frag. Being in the medical field I know this can be elevated glucose in the bloodstream. Potentially I would estimate that the frag attacks stored fat reserves then converts then to glycogen and ultimately glucose. Is this correct? Has anyone checked their glucose levels while on the fragment or a few minutes after?


 You are correct, as to how it works, as far as sides go I do not get any at all. but everyone is different. I agree with you about site specific, thats why I inject right into trouble areas. Blood glucose i never checked so that would be interesting to know


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## Dr. Tox (Mar 21, 2011)

Very weird. I am on day 7 and these are my doses.
Hgh frag 300 mcg x 2
TBol 10mg x 2
1600 cal low carb if any and mod protein
Cardio and high rep weights wit drop set.

Now the weird part. I weighed in at 230 this morning. I feel tight and solid. Fat is burning off problem areas (gut). Should I up the cardio? Drop the Tbol. Seems as I get older from hitting the sauce anything I take jacks me up. I need to get my ass in a 34 pants this summer. I am a 38 now. 
Any advise on what I can tweak would be great. Maybe 6 small meals rather than 4? Anything I am in need of help!


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## Klutch (Mar 22, 2011)

how heavy are you lifting?
you might have to go lighter weight higher rep..
and how well do you know your source because iv heard of people getting d-bol when they ordered t-bol so that could be a posibility...
but 6 punds of muscle not to bad lol


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## Dr. Tox (Mar 22, 2011)

The Tbol is legit for sure but you bring up a good point. Things have changed so much since I was younger 19 and now 31. Who even knows what kitchen shit was made in. All you can do is take others referrals and if they liked it what the f. I will clean up the diet on the weekends. No more cheat day. Keep you posted on the results. Fat is toning up on the ab region, that is about it for now


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## Klutch (Mar 24, 2011)

you got a 6 pack yet?


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## Dr. Tox (Mar 24, 2011)

No sign of abs. I am on my second bottle. Just stepped the dose to 300 mcg twice a day. Before cardio and in the morning. Also stepped the Tbol up to 30 mg spaced evenly. I am down about 2 pounds. Eating super clean 1700 cal per day and cardi 3-4 times a week. Significant toning happening and tightening all over. People just don't stick with this long enough. You need to run this for 6 weeks min. Just threw in 500 mg Yohimbe and taking Alapha Lipoic Acid (ALA). Take the ALA with your dinner. Shuttles more free glucose to the cells. Increases insulin sensitivity. This shit better start really kickin lol


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## Klutch (Mar 25, 2011)

Dr. Tox said:


> Very weird. I am on day 7 and these are my doses.
> Hgh frag 300 mcg x 2
> TBol 10mg x 2
> 1600 cal low carb if any and mod protein
> ...


 
good rule of thumb for diet is. stay away from the 3 white posions.
salt, sugar, white flour....


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## oufinny (Mar 25, 2011)

Klutch said:


> good rule of thumb for diet is. stay away from the 3 white posions.
> salt, sugar, white flour....



Salt is much less and issue with adequate hydration, unless you are in contest prep mode, the deal with salt is way overblown.  I like my food to have taste, the tiny difference on the scale minimizing salt will give me IMO is totally not worth it.


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## Klutch (Mar 26, 2011)

true... but if you tell someone no salt the will use a little and thats fine but you give an inch they take a mile lol. im good without salt sugar is my nemesis. but i have not had sugar in a month...sorry doc for stealing your thread its all yours again...


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## Dr. Tox (Mar 29, 2011)

Results are slow with the fragment. I am determined so I am going to grab 3 more bottles today before this sale runs out. Currently I have not really lost weight per say. Body fat is down but I have yet to run the caliper or bod pod. Waiting 2-3 more weeks. Eating very clean still and stepped up the training 4-5 days a week. These next few weeks going to focus on high reps and cardio and slam abs. 
At 600 mcg split in two doses
40 mg Tbol
1700 calorie low fat low carb
Eating smaller meals now
Taking Yohimbe, ALA and saw palmetto. 

Any suggestions so I can drop this weight. Lookin tighter but just not super hard and ripped yet. Need to get to 200. Should I lay off lifting or keep it light. Need some advice. Also my body does not react well to caffeine. Maybe Clen? And taper off the Tbol??


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## Klutch (Mar 29, 2011)

you could try doing hiit workouts, or circuit training or check out tabata workouts...or the best way is find a good jiu jitsu school. and sign up... ill help you find a good one in your area if your interested..also..
this will taste nasty but it works. go get some braggs apple cider vinegar and either take a full shot glass in the morning and 1hr b4 bed with a chaser some sort of juice.. or take 2tbl spoon 3x a day put it on a salad or in your shake. but will def. help drop b/f% i use to take it when i was training for fights.. im going to start back 2day myself.
check this out Apple Cider Vinegar Health Benefits


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## Dr. Tox (Mar 29, 2011)

I'll check out the vinegar. Thanks Klutch. My damn spell check always gets ur name. As for the training going to do circuit and up the dose on the frag.


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## cutright (Mar 29, 2011)

Good idea up ur dose^^^^^


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## Dr. Tox (Mar 29, 2011)

F in A!! The shit kicked in today. Went back to my old molecular biology book and from there purchased Alpha Lipoic Acid with L Carinitine. I take this with my carb meals along with Yohimbe. Also started to partion food more 6 small meals. Worked out Sun, Mon , and today I was tight like my arms,legs, chest and back were going to Pop! Dose was key for me. Currently at 600 mcg and my wife is on 500 mcg. 

Just re upped through Ex P. Decided to now start ipa with cjc and take the special buy two get one free with the combo. 

Also I decided to enter the  2011 IronMag contest. I am 31 but on my way back to 22, well not really but it sounded good. 

Thanks to this board- especially Cut and Twist and my new bud Klutch. Let's keep the info circulating. I will have plenty to share I am a Toxicologist.


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## Dr. Tox (Apr 1, 2011)

UPDATE
So far lost only 2.5 pounds but suspect I gained lean muscle in the process. We just almost wrapped up 3 bottles of frag and my female rat and will run this another 3 weeks. 

DOSE
I find it hard to believe that a dose of 500 mcg is effective. I am eating clean with one cheat day and train 4 days p/ wk. Cardio every session but will run the cardio longer. A more effective dose in my opinion is 600-750 mcg. This dose makes ur rat sweat at night! 

Also decided to get a Bod Pod done Tuesday to see what is really happening( fat loss ). 

Have cjc and ipa on the way. Phase II will initiate with dosing ipa and cjc at night 100 mcg and frag in morning as well as pre cardio on empty stomach. 

I will keep you posted but heads up progress is SlooOoW!!!


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## Dr. Tox (Apr 3, 2011)

Just got my new frag (ran out). First time from EP. GreAt service fast shipping. Noticed after dilution frag was super clear. This is different from my last batch which was cloudy. Sent out a PM to EP Owner today. I will keep everyone posted. This kind of stuff makes me wonder???. 

Also experiencing lipohypertrophy.  Some info I found here-> A reused needle doesn't inject as easily or as cleanly as a new one and can cause pain, bleeding, and bruising. 

Studies have shown that there's a link between needle reuse and the appearance of lumps of fatty tissue that can form at an injection site (lipodystrophy). 

Does anyone get this. My wife has one nice sized one. Pullin her off for a few days. They say the actual molecule ( insulin, peptides, etc) may stay agglomerated under the skin. She is a bit nervous. I have one small one but I think she hit a cap in there or used the pin 2 times. 

Looking forward to the response on this one. BoD Pod test on Tues


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## Klutch (Apr 3, 2011)

my ep frag is cloudy. my rat also had a small lump form right after a shot. but went down that day. but also alot of small bruises.


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## Dr. Tox (Apr 4, 2011)

How many bottles of fry have u done? Were they all cloudy. I have three. The one I mixed last night was cLear. The only way to find out is get the GC.


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## Klutch (Apr 4, 2011)

iv mixed 2 so far and were cloudy with particles floating in it.. ill let them sit for a 24hrs and the particles go away for the most part but its still cloudy...


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## Dr. Tox (Apr 4, 2011)

Yeah mine are as clear as water. You know I also compared the amount of actual powder that EP gives you. The give you much more than SR. I didn't actually weigh it but you could def tell. How is ur research going. What are u currently dosing. Clear or cloudy you should be able to see a difference now.


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## Klutch (Apr 4, 2011)

honestly, i weight 2-3lb more but i feel more squishy like my fat is getting softer.my stomach feels softer.. mabey it has to break down first idk... im running 340mcg 2x ed 

and what color are your tops?


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## Dr. Tox (Apr 4, 2011)

Pink color. Yeah the mushy is like a few days then you start to feel the tightening. Also you remain on an empty stomach for two hr or so right? The areas I lost the most was upper abs, upper thighs, back of arms and lower back. The tire is starting to leave my waist. Still lots of training. Finishing up with 50 Tbol left and 2.5 bottles of frag between my wife rat and I. 

Joined the challange. Come check out my progress. 
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/i...allenge/126388-dr-toxs-body-modification.html


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## Klutch (Apr 5, 2011)

my tops are orange... i wonder if it matters?


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## Dr. Tox (Apr 5, 2011)

Sorry man mine are orange. I wad lookin at the ipa.
EP is way stronger. Woke up last night and sweated my t shirt in my chest. Seems this stuff is more pure. Cutting dose to 250 mcg twice a day. I am going to start mixing in cjc and ipa soon just not sure when. Most likely after I run outta t Bol. Good work out yesterday and nice pumps. Will get on the scale Friday.


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## Klutch (Apr 5, 2011)

Yeah, I notice I'm sweating easier when i train. But not when I sleep. But my wife always has the air on 74.


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## Dr. Tox (Apr 5, 2011)

My female rat is reacting weird to the frag. Getting small bumps of frag under the skin at sub q site. I even got 31 g pins for extra comfort. Still the female rat will need to stop to let these dissolve. The male rat has no sides, but did feel a little dizzy today and sluggish. Cut dose to 250 mcg to see if that helps. This stuff works so damn slow.


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## Dr. Tox (Apr 7, 2011)

Well it's a wrap for this post! 
Today I stopped the fragment. Ran it out for almost 5 weeks. Still have some and very disappointed. No significant results! Made my chest, legs and arms a bit tighter but that could be the T Bol. Dosed up to  1,000 mcg spilt in two doses. Made me sweat but that's it. Stomach is actually more like jello?? Loosened visceral fat most likely.

Biochem 101

Lock and key hypothesis- although this model was designed for enzymes it holds true for receptor and chemical interactions to some degree.
My point- oh yeah if you do not have the full molecule the fragment is useless. In vitro studies do not always extrapolate!!

Net net- we are all guilty of trying new things in research. This experiment did not prove the hypothesis ( hgh frag will selectively initiate lipoloysis)

My reco

Stick to peptides that mimic the true molecule as much as possible.
I will open a new thread on my next research initiated tonight.

Thanks for all the support. Klutch time to call it a day soon bud


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## Klutch (Apr 8, 2011)

Yeah I feel you. I was debating today if should continue.. Because it's a pain in the stomach lol to keep this up with no results.. But I will try just a little longer and see. I'm dosing 1000mcg Ed that's supposed to be equivalent to 3 ius of real hgh. and I know 2 ius would cut b/f no problem. So idk


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