# Waxy Maize



## Tuco (Aug 19, 2011)

Does anyone use waxy maize? I've been thinking about maybe mixing that in with my preworkout stim shake and maybe adding that in with my post workout shake as well.


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## mobeezy13 (Aug 19, 2011)

you'd are better results with Chain'd Reaction from ALR. Better product, works faster and actually helps inhibit fat. you can use it pre or post with no stomach issues, one of the best supps I've tried in a long time. You actually get leaner the longer you use it.


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## ExLe (Aug 19, 2011)

I have heard that the research is sketchy and that it is all hype. I would go with a 50/50 dextrose, maltodextrine post workout. It's cheap and has had great result for a lot of people I know such as my self. If you do choose to spend your money on it let us know how it works out for you. All the lifters I know have not tried it and don't trust it. I am curious as to anyone who has used it and has any feedback on it as well.


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## Bonesaw (Aug 19, 2011)

ExLe said:


> I have heard that the research is sketchy and that it is all hype. I would go with a 50/50 dextrose, maltodextrine post workout. It's cheap and has had great result for a lot of people I know such as my self. If you do choose to spend your money on it let us know how it works out for you. All the lifters I know have not tried it and don't trust it. I am curious as to anyone who has used it and has any feedback on it as well.


was thinking about going this route some day too.  Why the 50/50?


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## ScottyMac710 (Aug 19, 2011)

I've experimented with QUITE a few different options for carb sources - specifically post workout carbs with the goal of speedy glycogen replenishment/insulin response. As far as waxy maize goes, it's a bit of a complicated question, as according to the research that has been done on the specific form of waxy maize starch found in Vitargo - it is the best option for a post workout or glycogen loading carbohydrate. The downside is that Genr8 (company that makes vitargo) is the only company that owns the rights to the specifically processed 'vitargo' waxy maize, and the other forms available are far inferior carbohydrate sources. 

As far as the other carbohydrate options go, this has been my experience:
(insulin response based on feelings of dropping blood sugar a short while after ingestion)
Grape Juice: some fat gain, decent insulin response, moderately expensive
Maltodextrin: fat gain, bloating, moderate/good insulin response, inexpensive
Dextrose: not much fat gain, very good insulin response, inexpensive
Sucrose: some fat gain, some bloating, good insulin response, cheap
Corn Starch: not much fat gain, some bloating, not great insulin response, inexpensive
White bread: some fat gain, some bloating, not great insulin response, moderately expensive
Bananas: some fat gain, some bloating, not great insulin response, moderately expensive

There are many more I tried out at various times including dates, wheat flour, oats, white flour, and more - can comment on them if need be but the above were the ones i tried and tracked results with most. Overall, I prefer to go with Oats or slow digesting carbs pre-workout and Dextrose post-workout, have seen the best results this way.


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## ExLe (Aug 19, 2011)

*Importance of consuming a combination of Maltodextrin & Dextrose*


After reading Old School’s excellent article on post workout nutrition, the reader is now aware of the importance of consuming easily digested, high Gl carbohydrates at this time.  But the question is, why a combination of dextrose and maltodextrin? Both are high in Gl rating, and easily digested right? True, but there is more logic than Gl rating to stacking these two powerhouses. Read on for the answer. 

Beginning with the first concept discussed called, “gastric emptying.” Our goal post workout is to maintain a prompt digestion rate so nutrients can transport swiftly and efficiently to our muscles. With that said, it has been shown that this process slows when the ingested fluid contains a high osmolarity concentration (the second concept studied). Osmolarity is dependent on the number of particles in a solution. That is, a100-milliliter solution with 20 glucose molecules will have a higher osmolarity then a100-millileter solution that only contains 10 molecules. The shorter chain length a carbohydrate has, the higher it raises the solution's osmolarity. Therefore, it is no surprise that a pure glucose solution (or dextrose, a monosaccharide) induces very high concentrations of solute (1,3,10).  

Fortunately these negative effects become greatly reduced when the drink contains a glucose polymer stacked with dextrose. However, a carbohydrate that is easily digested, and has a high Gl is still desired. Hence, a combination of dextrose and maltodextrin is advised. Osmolarity will be decreased, and glucose will still enter the blood stream at a proficient rate, thus maintaining its anabolic nature (1,3). 

A second factor concerning osmolarity must now be examined. From a clinical standpoint, it is vital to take into consideration the fact that plasma (the liquid portion of blood) has an Osmolarity of 300 mOsm. This means that if one were to inject a solution with a greater concentration of solute into their blood, it would cause water from inside their red blood cells to leave by Osmosis (water always travels down its concentration gradient) and move into the plasma, in turn shrinking the erythrocytes (red blood cells). This is because the cells are iso-osmotic to the plasma (both have the same concentration of solute) (11). 

A similar concept can be applied to your post workout meal. If a competitor were to consume a solution that was hypertonic or had a higher concentration of solute then 300 mOsm, it could dehydrate them (showing why digestion is rightfully slowed in a high concentrated solution).  The addition of maltodextrin once again solves this problem (2,13).  

The next question is, why not just use maltodextrin, and eliminate dextrose since it is so proficient? Ah, once again it is not that simple. Shi. X et al. in an outstanding study, tested the digestive effects of two substrates (any substance acted upon by an enzyme) as opposed to only one substrate in the small intestine. What they found was quite fascinating. The solution containing two substrates stimulated the activation of more transport mechanisms in the intestinal lumen, than did its singular counterpart. Therefore, more carbohydrates were transported out of the small intestine (absorbed into the blood), which additionally aided a greater absorption rate of water into the blood stream (by osmosis). Thus, the higher activation rate of transport mechanisms, even with higher osmolarity facilitated faster energy uptake and hydration (12)!


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## ExLe (Aug 19, 2011)

To put it in laymans terms dex and malto are both great post work out carbs alone.

 Combining them gives you each ones unique benifits and the insulin spike you need after a hard workout. The best of both worlds. 

I'm sure Waxy Maize might work just as good,slighlty worse, or slightly better, but the price tag is not worth it when dex and malto are so cheap and there is tons of feedback on it.


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## Pump4EVER (Aug 20, 2011)

Used IDS WM for years and switched to Chain'D Reaction a few months back...couldn't be happier with the switch. No bloating and works really well


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## Halo (Aug 20, 2011)

When I use WM I use the IDS stuff too.  I use it in my during workout water, sip it between sets and it gives me a great steady energy that I can't replicate in any of the other things I've tried.


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## Built (Aug 20, 2011)

Starch is a glucose polymer - it all turns into glucose. Waxy maize is just another source of glucose. 

The malto-dex thing has been around for a while; we can probably thank John Berardi for popularizing the mix and discussing the word "osmolality". The notion is that the number of molecules of substance will be smaller for a longer chain glucose polymer - so if you have 100 dextrose molecules as dextrose, you'll have 100 molecules. If you have 100 dextrose molecules as maltodextrin, you'll have fewer than 100 molecules - but it'll still dissolve where a more complex glucose polymer will not. Your innards are replete with semi-permeable membranes, and the concentrations of liquids will tend to want to equalize. Too high on one side, and you pull more water into the gut. Too low, and you push it out. The right mix has the same concentration of solute and won't mess you up. In practice, this really only matters to marathon runners. I used to mix malto and dex. Now I just use dex.


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## SuperLift (Aug 20, 2011)

Im taking dextrose now, but have taken waxy maize in the past with great results! Id say that its a must have if you are trying to gain weight. Give it a shot, you wont be disappointed - promise.


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## ExLe (Aug 20, 2011)

Superlift, was it worth the cost? How comparable is it to dextrose? 

If the results are similar I would stick with a $5 bag of dextrose.


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## Built (Aug 21, 2011)

SuperLift said:


> Im taking dextrose now, but have taken waxy maize in the past with great results! Id say that its a must have if you are trying to gain weight. Give it a shot, you wont be disappointed - promise.


SuperLift, humour me. Why do you feel waxy maize is better for weight-gain? 


ExLe said:


> Superlift, was it worth the cost? How comparable is it to dextrose?
> 
> If the results are similar I would stick with a $5 bag of dextrose.



I'm with ExLe here, and I see this kind of thing all the time - for example, ester-C vs regular ascorbate. If ester-C has twice the bio-availability but three times the cost, it ain't worth it.


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