# The Leptigen II Avantage.....



## DaMayor (Jun 2, 2003)

Da Stats......

Age: 37
Height: 5'-10"
Weight: 235-238lbs. (was ~240+ in January)
BF- To update asap. 
Neck-~17.5"
Chest-~48"
Bi's-~17.5"
Waist-~38"
Quads-~27.5"
All measurements are nominal....we'll tighten these up later.


  October-December, 2002???.After spending the last few years doing everything that I knew to be unhealthy (in relation to diet and exercise) my conscience finally caught up with me???I???d had enough. 
Having always maintained a certain level of fitness in the past, at least in regards to my ???weight???, (a term I would later learn to use with greater care) the condition I found myself in was anything but acceptable. Unlike a large percentage of the American Populace, who, like lambs to the slaughter, believe any and every marketing gimmick, my initial approach to diet was a bit more skeptical. I knew that anything labeled ???light???, ???lean???, or ???healthy??? probably wasn???t, that I couldn???t lose ten pounds in two days by drinking the contents of a bastardized Gatorade bottle, and that the idea of popping pills more often used by truck drivers than trainers didn???t sound like such a good idea.
I knew that a typical (reduction) diet required a caloric deficit, was vaguely familiar with macronutrients, and recognized that a minimal carbohydrate intake yielded moderate to good results. While I had trained and dieted in years past, usually with an acceptable amount of success, little did I know that this diet would be an entirely different ordeal.  The combination of higher expectations/goals and a sluggish to hybernatory metabolism would prove to be quite a challenge, to say the very least.
  Initially, I approached the situation as most would, by decreasing portion sizes and eating a few more salads while exercising, via weight training and low impact cardio, three times a week. After more than a month, and little to no ???weight loss???, I was worried.  I began researching various sources and visiting several web sites, and at the advice of most in the ???fitness??? business, I started keeping a fitness journal. After a week???s worth of entries, I was shocked to find that my caloric intake was averaging ~1400 kcals a day. Based on the ratio of kcal per pound bodyweight I had seen in my research, this wasn???t a good number. Again I searched, and read, and listened, and found that I may need to re-set my metabolism. I did this first by cleaning up my diet, replacing what I had considered ???normal??? carbohydrates with ???slow burners???, increasing my protein intake via both food sources as well as powders, and choosing better fat sources, such as flax oil, fish oil, etc. and supplementing as never before via quality multivitamins, and other dietary supplements.. Then, over the course of the next few months, I increased my caloric intake to an average of 2800 kcal per day. By mid April, I was consuming roughly 3000 calories, when I noticed a slight and consistent weight gain. At this point, again following the advice of those more knowledgeable than I, I began to diet???..the right way. 
My first approach was that of increasing my meal frequency to 5-6 times a day, adjusting my caloric intake ratio to 10-11 kcals per pound of bodyweight, while maintaining a consistent ratio of p/c/f ???usually around 45/25/30, or thereabouts. As time went on, the scale moved only slightly. While I realized that I might be ???trading??? fat loss with muscle gain, the lack of scale movement was a less than positive incentive to continue this particular plan. Again feeling frustrated, I decided to utilize a more aggressive approach. I then began reading, specifically Lyle McDonald???s (extensive) work, on SKD???s and CKD???s. I had tried the Atkins diet in the past, and with good results, so a CKD, sharing many of the same characteristics, seemed like the next logical choice. However, the idea of weekly ???carb-ups??? or ???re-feeds??? seemed almost contradictory to someone who had never studied the concept in great detail. Why couldn???t I just continue to carb deplete if I was achieving a consistent fat loss? Yet, after reading further, and becoming more familiar with leptin levels, I began to understand. In fact, this new found information describing the role of this hormone in relation to weight loss explained why I had not experienced any weight loss over the past year or more. 
So, here I am, experimenting again. Currently, I have been on a carbohydrate depletion for the past three days, hopefully ketosis bound. My current ratios are ~50/0/50 @ ~2600kcals per day. As I stated above, I wish I could maintain this fat-burning state for a number of weeks before carbing up or re-feeding, but fear that I might damage my metabolism???..again. So, for now its two steps forward and one step back??????progress indeed, just excruciatingly slow. Then again, Maslow never said that self actualization would be easy.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 2, 2003)

Okay, here we are....ready to test.....

Let me first say that this is indeed a _serious_ undertaking, and that I really expect and would appreciate you all to treat it as such........I know you all will. 

*Initial Notes (and a few questions):*
As to make this product 'test' as objective as possible, I will make all comments, inquiries and/or requests for information public.....

*The statistics I entered above will be re-checked and verified this afternoon, as they were taken a week or so ago.

I'll tell ya what....Rather than creating a rant here, I'll give TP et al an opportunity to offer whatever information he/they feel is necessary before I actually start an rant-fest......


----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 2, 2003)

Looks like a good start. 

I expect the product to be shipped at the end of the next week, so you'll likely start in 2 weeks or so.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 2, 2003)

Alrighty then, seeing as we will have some time on our hands before the product arrives, I thought it might be helpful to re-define my diet approach prior to loading up on Leptigen II.
For the last week or three, I have been on a ketogenic diet of sorts......we won't go into SKD, CKD, Atkins, etc..
This diet has basically consisted of 5-6 meals per day, (usually 5, the 6th usually on w/o days) based on an average of 50/0/50...that's an _average._ 
I had originally been depleting carbs for three days, and then 'carbing up', usually via "healthy carbs" -oats, etc. vs. the Cocoa Cocoa Puffs so dearly loved by many here- but with little success. As a result of this, I decided to get a little more aggressive by going to a 40/0/60 ratio, and going for longer periods, up to, but not exceeding two weeks with no carb-ups. Last week, after 4 days of this...minimal ketosis.

Therefore, the question I have is this.... *While using a product such as Leptigen II  , which is really geared to mantain healthy leptin levels and/or deter all of the negative aspects of such levels crashing, is it really necessary to use a ketogenic diet? Why not a more "balanced" diet, say 50/20/30, with a caloric deficit alone?*


----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 2, 2003)

Any diet will do (diet = hypocaloric state).

What type of results have you been having on this?


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 2, 2003)

Thus far, my results have been less than satisfactory. However, I recently realized that I had been _hugely_ mistaken in the way I viewed ketogenic diets, specifically the SKD, mainly due to a sort of misrepresentation of 'caloric boundaries' as explained (loosely) in the Atkins diet.  For whatever reason, I thought that a caloric deficit was not absolutely necessary as long as adequate fats were being taken in and ketosis achieved. Of course, our esteemed friend Lyle M. states quite to the contrary:

*Calories and the Atkins diet: a misconception* 
"A misconception, and commonly heard criticism, surrounding the Atkins diet is the
(apparent) claim that fat can be lost with an ???unrestricted caloric intake???, which contradicts
basic thermodynamics (8). Strictly speaking, Atkins claimed that one could lose weight eating as
much fat and protein ???as they liked??? meaning they could eat until they were full without worrying
about counting calories."  

Major Oops. Regardless, I have recently had a very difficult time getting into Ketosis, hence my "can I try something else with this product?" question.


----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 2, 2003)

Interesting that you found that.  You weren't aware of that this morning.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 2, 2003)

True. True.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 3, 2003)

Okay, based on the myriad of input we've received, I've chosen to go with a CKD. Basically, I will carb deplete for four days, carb up on the fourth, etc. etc. Ratio will look something like 50/0/50 to begin with, @ 2300 kcals per day. I will do this until the Leptigen II arrives, (approx. 2 weeks, eh TP?) at which time I will initially drop calories to 2000, then eliminate carb-ups, doing a re-feed every two weeks.

All of this is tentitive...any suggestions are Welcomed!


----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 3, 2003)

I'd like you to keep kcals the same before and during use.  Refeed every 5th day before, and track weight loss every 5 days.  Refeed should be a full day of carbs to keep leptin up.

After use, refeed every 5th day, but only refeed for 4 hours after your workout.  The intent here is to reglycogenate your muscles, and will not effect leptin (which you dont need to do).  Also track weight loss every 5 days.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 3, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I'd like you to keep kcals the same before and during use. *Alright, we'll go with 2300....this is about 17-18% of my current maint.cals.....acceptable?*
> 
> Refeed every 5th day before.... *Meaning "carb up" not "Extensive Refeed" correct?*
> ...



So the weight loss may continue well _after_ I discontinue use?


----------



## Leslie (Jun 3, 2003)

Good Luck DaMayor. I am looking forward to tracking this.

Salvage those refeed days


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 3, 2003)

Thanks! We are looking forward to this.


----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 3, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Leslie *_
> Salvage those refeed days



He won't need to, once on LG II. 

As to your last question DM.  Leptigen sends the fed signal to your cells.  It is this signal, or the lack thereof, that as the myriad of negative effects, so diets, as the go on, get more difficult, hunger and cravings increase, metabolism falls, muscle loss occurs, fat loss slows etc.

Leptigen will send the fed signical to the celss without the kcals of food, so these problems inherent in dieting will be staved off.

Once you stop with LG, you will continue as if you never took it.  Put simply, if you continue to diet, leptin will begin to fall, the fed signal will not be sent, etc.  You will continue to loss weight, albeit not at the same pace and with the same easy, and as you continue it will become progressively more difficult.  

But, if you use it for a month, lets say, you will have staved off all of these things during that time.

Moreover, LG utilizes many repartitioning pathways, so fat loss will be more significant when using it, then without.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 3, 2003)

How do you suspect the fat loss will compare to that experienced by those who tested the _original_  product? I realize that this is entirely speculative at this point, but take a stab at it anyway........for the viewers.....I won't hold you to it.


----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 3, 2003)

Everything will be much, much better.

Leptigen had 6 ingredients.  LG II has over 80.  It targets and effects many, many different pathways.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 3, 2003)

Nice.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 3, 2003)

Okay, let's talk about calories for a minute. I have a concern about the level of my personal caloric deficit, and the effects any miscalculation on my part might have on this test...not to mention my metabolism. 
Okay, based on what we've read, for the average bear, _maintenance_ is based on 15cals per lb. of bodyweight. If this were the case, my maintenance cals per day would be ~3600. Now, based on the "results" of my metabolic re-set, my 'threshold' from maint. to weight gain is about 2800cal per day. In other words, anything above 2800-3000 calories, and I start to gain weight consistently. 
Now, based on the following:

*The maximum allowed deficit* 

 "The effects of exercise at different calorie levels on fat loss vary and are discussed in chapter 22. In general, the studies support the idea that there is a threshold deficit where maximum fat loss will occur with minimal changes in metabolic rate. This threshold occurs at approximately 1000 calories per day below maintenance and represents the maximum allowed deficit. *As a general rule, the total daily deficit, created through caloric restriction and exercise, should be no greater than 1000 calories total per day.*  This should yield an average fat loss of 2 pounds per week. Some exceptions to this rule are discussed in chapter 13." --Lyle McDonald

Now, based on what Mr. McDonald tells us, let's say that I wish to decrease my daily caloric intake by 1000kcals.....this usually being a combined total as stated above, my questions are:

A.) Should the deficit, whether 100 or 1000kcals, be deducted from ~3600c/p/d, or from 2800c/p/d? 

B.)Since I will be using Letigen II, which is designed to maintain leptin levels, couldn't I go down as far as 1800 with little or no danger of screwing up my metabolism?

Let's start with these...........


----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 3, 2003)

A)  Hey refers to 1000 kcals below actual maintenance, 15 x BW is just an average.  So 1800 would be your lowest, according to Lyle.

B)  True you could go lower and not fuck things up, because of LG II.  That said, if you lose 2 lbs weekly at 1000 kcals below, you would lose more, while on LG II with the same deficit, as I mentioned above.

Another good rule is to diet at bewteen 10-12 kcals per pound of bodyweight.  If your metabolism is slow, and you want to be extreme, 10 x is a good number, I'd not go far below that, to start.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 3, 2003)

That's what I wanted to hear!

*Stoked! *


----------



## Triple Threat (Jun 4, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> if you lose 2 lbs weekly at 1000 kcals below, you would lose more, while on LG II with the same deficit, as I mentioned above.



I've reread this entire thread a couple of times, and I still don't understand how this is true. Any chance of explaining this in simple terms? Thanks.


----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 4, 2003)

In very simple terms, there are many ways.

A few include:

- repartitioning nutrients: LG II contains several substances that will divert a higher % of kcals and macros to muscle than to fat stores.  

- increased metabolism: as a result of leptin levels staying heightened (rather than quickly dipping which happens who you go hypocaloric) metabolism you remain high.  In addition, lean body mass will not be catabolized (and indeed you will likely be able to gain muscle while hypocaloric -- which is unheard of in an experienced lifter who is not on an anabolic).

There are other reasons but they are less significant.

Obviously, this is all threory based on science, and these are things we are looking for in the testing.  We are quite confident in the research, as it will apply in the real world.


----------



## Triple Threat (Jun 4, 2003)

Got it. Thanks, TP. I was under the impression that it was more along the lines of an appetite suppressant. It's clearly more than just that.


----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 4, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by CaptainDeadlift *_
> Got it. Thanks, TP. I was under the impression that it was more along the lines of an appetite suppressant. It's clearly more than just that.



No, no, no.  Anorect-In is an appetite supressant.  An instantaneous one at that.

Leptigen does supress appetite, but only as a by product of sending the fed signal to the cells and keeping leptin levels up.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 6, 2003)

What's the products ETA?


----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 6, 2003)

Hard to say.  Will know more next week.

How has the diet gone this week?


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 6, 2003)

It's going.....

I'm tightening up the stats for next week. I would like to post what I've been doing a week before I begin using the product. At least concerning diet. Regarding training, I think that a general description, if any at all, is required. 
Your opinion?


----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 6, 2003)

I agree.

Delay is based on sourcing the final ingredients, BTW.  Unfortunately in the short term, but fortunately for the long term, Par Deus keeps finding additional ingredients that make it even more potent.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 6, 2003)

Alright, I will begin logging my diet on Monday. 

In regards to training, I have, and will continue to do a basic three day split, with low impact cardio on off days....schedule permitting. Ran into a bit of trouble at a softball game recently, so anything high impact is on hold for at least a week.

One question, however. As an effort to burn more BF, would it be best to continue to work alternate muscle groups, or switch to a full body w/o three times a week? (i.e., which would best maximize the effects of the LG II?)


----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 6, 2003)

Doesn't matter, stick to what you are doing.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Doesn't matter, stick to what you are doing.




Really? This stuff _must_ be good!

By the way, did we ever determine the _duration_ of this test?


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 9, 2003)




----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 9, 2003)

No fair, you edited that after I read it.

I am guessing 4 weeks.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 9, 2003)

Good.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 10, 2003)

Has Par located the infamous missing components?


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 12, 2003)

E'Hem.....


----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 12, 2003)

Patience is not your forte, I see.  You'd think you were paying for this.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 12, 2003)

Ah! A RESPONSE!

So, for those whom might also be interested in the product........

Any News?


----------



## Robboe (Jun 12, 2003)

For fucks sake man - you've barely been dieting a fortnight. You can probably make leaps and bounds in the next 4 or so weeks without much problem.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 12, 2003)

Buddy, and I use this term loosely, I've been dieting a while longer than that....

Care to expound on the 'leaps and bounds' theory for the boys and girls?


----------



## Robboe (Jun 12, 2003)

Apologies - i was under the impression you started dieting for this experiment.

'Leaps and bounds' - you can lose fat quite consistently for the first 4-6 weeks of a diet before running into any "real" problems.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 12, 2003)

I have been dieting for the past three to four weeks, however, more seriously this week than the previous two. Unfortunately, "leaps and bounds" is not the case....I'm stalled right out of the gate. (Hence the sense of urgency re: Lep II arrival) Par for the course. No pun intended, Avant fans.
Of course, I could probably spend more time concentrating on consistency rather than tweaking and second guessing.


----------



## Robboe (Jun 12, 2003)

Stalled straight away?

You close to your setpoint or something?


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 12, 2003)

Well, not losing any 'weight'...let's put it that way. Weighed yesterday just out of curiosity...gained a couple....from where I have no idea.
Close to my set point? Hell, I hope not!
Initially, I was working with a bastardized version of a CKD....High fat/Moderate protein w/ carb up during the weekend. This was the trouble, I believe....carb ups weren't clean enough (included a few cool ones) work outs lacked motivation, I wasn't recording things accurately....just a slovenly program.
Week two... tightened things up considerably...
Week three... began perusing this site and others, looking for my own personal SKD/CKD....rather, the best ratios......the missing link.  Found the 'CKD' post here by one of the Mods, can't remember who...Mr. X and some chick.........anyway, I was giving this serious consideration until I spoke to a couple of folks here, who basically talked me out of it. The ratios fluxuated with little explanation as to why.
I've since been using a ~65%fat/~35%protein ratio, Zero carbs, no veggies.....getting ready to eliminate caffeine altogether, as well as alcohol (both are actually very limited) and have tweaked my suppliment program to include increases in chromium, fish oil, etc.


----------



## Robboe (Jun 12, 2003)

Do you have problems sticking to diet?

Also, what gave you the idea to jump feet first into a low carb diet? Why didn't you stick with carbs, protein and fat (and fibre) and just adjust calories for a few weeks until you felt that the only remaining obvious step was to drop carb intake?


----------



## Robboe (Jun 12, 2003)

Also, chromium (piccolinate) ain't really that great unless you already have existing blood sugar issues.

Fish oils are great.

Definately quit "drinking", but there's nothing wrong with a glass or two of red wine (or white if you lick that side of the stamp) during carb loads/refeed days.

Caf has benefits for fat loss also, but can be a bit two faced cause it causes cellular dehydration to a certain degree.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Do you have problems sticking to diet?
> 
> Also, what gave you the idea to jump feet first into a low carb diet? Why didn't you stick with carbs, protein and fat (and fibre) and just adjust calories for a few weeks until you felt that the only remaining obvious step was to drop carb intake?




I gave the Atkins diet a try, about a year ago, and with very good results.....12-14lbs. in a couple of weeks. Of course, at the time I didn't realize that most of this was water....Nor did I care to consider that when I quit smoking it would all be for nil.
The more "balanced" approach just didn't seem to do it....I stayed at the same weight for months, regardless of how I manipulated my w/o routine or macros.

Since then, I just attempted to read more, Lyle mainly, and alter my approach every now and then. The only thing that has interfered with my dieting is the frustration that comes with not knowing, or understanding why my system doesn't respond......Of course, this is often my own fault for expecting immediate results and making changes before the old body has a chance to acclimate to the current program. Live and learn, I suppose.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Also, chromium (piccolinate) ain't really that great unless you already have existing blood sugar issues.           *I agree, but I figured it wouldn't kill me....immediately. Secondly, my Doc felt that I might be insulin resistant, so I thought it might help*
> 
> Fish oils are great.          *Yes they are. TP has been encouraging me to increase my intake..*
> ...



Thanks for your input.


----------



## Robboe (Jun 13, 2003)

When you tried your balanced diet and seemed to get nowhere, were you tracking calories everyday as well? And making dietary amendments (i.e. removing calories) when your weight went down?


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> When you tried your balanced diet and seemed to get nowhere, were you tracking calories everyday as well? And making dietary amendments (i.e. removing calories) when your weight went down?




Yes, I was tracking cals, macros, etc.....I never really reached a point where I felt confident to make any (deductive) amendments. I was staying pretty much at the same weight, or noted only minor fluxuations in weight....1-2lbs. in either direction over the course of several months. (I attributed this to fluid mainly)
Keep in mind, however, that I had spent a great deal of time re-setting my metabolism, and was initially conservative in any attempt to reduce cals. I wanted to do it right..........."right" however, is a term with a broad interpretation, depending on whose advice you're following.


----------



## Robboe (Jun 13, 2003)

You should have dropped calories. For a week or so, it's an ideal situation, because it takes a few days for your body to realise this enough to drop leptin secretion, which is what really slows progress.

During these few days, your brain thinks you're slightly hypoglycaemic (cause of the lower calories) and so does stuff to promote fat burning - ideal!

Of course, it is when leptin drops quite low when this stops and fat burning enzymes, thyroid etc.. are slowly switched "off" and fat storing enzymes etc... are switched "on".

So like i said, generally, you can make quite good progress in the first four or so weeks of a cut before progress plateaus.

If you're so paranoid about losing muscle, then lower calories so ensure 1-2lbs weight loss for the first few weeks but include a refeed once a week.

Oh yeah - if you DO have insulin issues, you may wanna check whether LG is ok for you.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 13, 2003)

This is true. However, I really wasn't concerned with muscle loss as much as I was with damaging my metabolism again. I have since gotten over this paranoia, although I don't have any intentions of dieting haphazardly either.
My remark regarding insulin may have been a bit off base. The insulin issue came up about a year and a half ago. I was getting a routine physical, during which I complained to the Doc about having a hard time losing weight. The Doc, a younger, enthusiastic, well read individual, who I later determined might tend to go a bit overboard at times, made the comment that I might have an insulin related problem. Of course, diabetes is the latest and greatest issue, so he had been studying up a bit and was anxious to share the information. Not to mention the fact that I was then on the Atkins diet, smoked, worked in an office, sat on my ass all day, had no work-out routine in place......Basically killing myself. Secondly, the reason I wasn't experiencing any results via the Atkins plan was simply due to the fact that I wasn't doing it properly!

Currently, I'm doing a 65%/0/35% diet @20% caloric deficit....presently day 5. I am in ketosis,finally, showing light to moderate ketones per the ketostix, and will expect to have lost 1 lb. this week. If I can get the ball rolling like I did once before, I think I can lose 1-2 lbs. per week easily. Oh, I won't carb-up this weekend because I really didn't show any signs of ketosis until yesterday. So my plan was to carb up this coming weekend, then do weekly carb ups after that.
As far as reducing cals as my weight drops, I was hoping to do that while using the Leptigen II in hopes that the deficit would be more readily accepted by my system. (TP- insert reference to my stubborness here)

Whew! Can I babble or what!


----------



## Robboe (Jun 13, 2003)

Well, you don't need ketone production to drop fat. You need a calorie deficit.

Regardless, what is this about you previously "damaging" your metabolism?


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 13, 2003)

When I was self employed.....Ha! Now _that's_ funny, considering that as of today I am again self employed...I digress...
Anyway, the type of work I did required a lot of travel time to each customer, a great deal of work/ no opportunity to stop while I was there, and travel home afterwards. I might eat a bite in the a.m., although this was a rarity. So, my day consisted of Coffee, work, and usually an unhealthy supper. I basically trained myself to work with very little fuel in the tank.
The first time I logged my dietary stats, I found that I was eating maybe  ~1200 cals on a good day.....and drinking 20 gallons of caffeine laden diet drinks.
Needless to say, when I took my current (actually ex-) "office" job, and quit smoking, the shit _really_ hit the fan.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 13, 2003)

Finally! Signs of progress! Weighed in on Monday, 242lbs. ...........weighed this afternoon...237. I realize that some of this is water, but I'll take it anyway.


----------



## Robboe (Jun 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> When I was self employed.....Ha! Now _that's_ funny, considering that as of today I am again self employed...I digress...
> Anyway, the type of work I did required a lot of travel time to each customer, a great deal of work/ no opportunity to stop while I was there, and travel home afterwards. I might eat a bite in the a.m., although this was a rarity. So, my day consisted of Coffee, work, and usually an unhealthy supper. I basically trained myself to work with very little fuel in the tank.
> The first time I logged my dietary stats, I found that I was eating maybe  ~1200 cals on a good day.....and drinking 20 gallons of caffeine laden diet drinks.
> Needless to say, when I took my current (actually ex-) "office" job, and quit smoking, the shit _really_ hit the fan.



That much caffeine is bad, yes.

How long did this practise keep up?

("Fucking up metabolism" is something greatly exaggerated by the way. You can't do it permanently cause the body is basically too smart.)

And what would you estimate your bf% to be at right now?


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> That much caffeine is bad, yes.
> 
> How long did this practise keep up?
> ...



I did this for about 3-1/2 to 4 years.....

I am not sure what my BF is currently.....I'm sure it is much higher than I would estimate it to be.....so I won't estimate. 
We'll try to get this checked out this week, I'm very curious as to what it is.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 17, 2003)

Diet still holding @ 65%/0/35%.......Carb up is scheduled for Friday. Thus far, I've leveled out considerably. No longer feel drained or cranky, rather, feel calm and clear in thought....no more "fog". 
Training is going well, with the exception of my right arm/elbow. Despite the numbness and slight loss of grip-strength in my right hand, I lifted some personal highs last night. We'll just avoid any curl movements, and take care w/ pulling exercises for another month.

We'll get more specific about all of this about a week before LG II arrives.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 20, 2003)

Carb-up re-scheduled for....Yesterday. 

Going with a more balanced diet this coming week....still at a 20% deficit. 

I'm very excited.

ecstatic.

.....


----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 20, 2003)

Any new weight/weight loss updates?


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 20, 2003)

Seem to be holding at the 236-7 mark.....which is good, considering that this is the first consistent "loss" I've experienced in the past several months. I'll weigh in again today, so we'll see.
Of course, I've been doing more manual labor in the 90+ degree heat, so it may again be water to some extent.

...........By the way, my previous comment wasn't meant to sound sarcastic, I'm just surprised how calm I still feel after consuming carbs. It's actually quite nice.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 21, 2003)

235.........


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 25, 2003)

Alright, here's the deal. For the past few weeks I've been on a CKD. Now, there was some weight loss noted during the first week (which I assumed was mainly water weight) followed by slowed progress during week two. Thus far this week, there has been no change.
Due to my recent "career change", I am doing a lot more manual labor and a lot less sitting around, which makes it very difficult to make it through the first three (carb depletion) days of my current diet. 
As a result, and due to a question posed earlier in this journal, I am considering changing to a more "balanced" diet. Of course, I will do so at a ~20% caloric deficit. This will serve two purposes.....first, I will stay more hydrated and probably more energetic during the day. Secondly, a diet that consists of lean meats, vegi's, and a _very limited amount_ of slow burning carbs is much much easier to sell to the family. (I have had relatively good success in converting my wife to such a diet, and if we're both on it together we'll be more likely to stick with it)
Leptigen II is soon to arrive.......I need your collective input!!
(Give TP and TCD a break, guys and gals!)

Thanks.


----------



## Jodi (Jun 25, 2003)

I think its a great idea DM!   I have great success with them and still keep alot of energy. 

What are you looking at 50/30/20 P/F/C ??


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 25, 2003)

That's pretty much what I had in mind. I'd like to get the majority of fat from fish oil,flax,olive oil, etc. as opposed to the poor quality fats found in some SKD's.

By the way, I didn't want to give CKD's a negative rap.... But during the summer months, I can eat a truckload of vegtables as opposed to the massive amounts of fat needed to get into ketosis. Yes, yes, Rob, I know ketone production isn't necessary, but it seems to be a factor for me personally.  In other words, I haven't had much success when ketones aren't present.


----------



## Jodi (Jun 25, 2003)

Very cool!  I love my veggies too.  I like making veggie and shrimp kabobs on the grill 

CKD is not a bad diet at all, its a difficult plan to follow for some and if not done properly can be a waste of time.  JMHO!!

Now, I'm not saying you did it improperly just with a family I can see how it would be easier to go with a more balanced plan.


----------



## Robboe (Jun 25, 2003)

Personally, and maybe this is just me and you may have some insulin-related issues, I would go isocaloric, still using the more satieting carbohydrate sources. Keep the calorie deficit and gauge weight loss weekly. Eventually, once you hit a plateau, then consider dropping carbs and upping fat.

If you drop carbs straight away, you're going to drop some/a lot of water from within your cells and this will make you lighter and will lower your RMR. Also, you'll effect your thyroid output to some degree - something which occurs with carbohydrate restriction regardless of overall calorie balance. Of course the thyroid gland seems to hold enough hormone for a couple of weeks use, so you probably won't notice the slowing metabolic effect until the week three or four mark in most people. In the long term it will be though. By keeping carbohydrates in the diet to some extent, you hinder the decline in thyroid output somewhat, which is obviously ideal.

I'm certainly not against low carb diets, because i think they're a handy tool for the latter stages of a diet when you're aiming to strip more stubborn fat deposits and insulin release from carb intake is hindering you. In hindsight, i'm not sure if i would have been better suited on a lower carb diet like NHE for these last few weeks of my diet. I've made progress in the fat loss department, but i'm not too sure if i would have dropped a bit more in comparison. Obviously i'm not going to fret over it now, but it's food for thought for me for the future.

If you ask my strategy, i'd say start isocaloric at the start of any diet, and gradually, as you get leaner (and lighter), amend calories so you say in overall deficit, taking calories specifically away from direct carbohydrate sources. Eventually, once you get to about the 15-20% range of carbs for your overall dietary calorie allocation, convert to some sort of "official" low carb diet like a CKD or, in my opinion a better choice - NHE.

This way you don't drop your RMR like a rock straight into a diet,  your thyroid output is protected somewhat and by the end of your diet when you're quite lean and insulin is hindering lipolysis, the low carb approach is better suited.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 25, 2003)

I agree. 
My main concern is that I went to a CKD because I felt that it would yield quicker and more dramatic results. Of course, this might be the case if I continue, but by continuing I would have to sacrifice energy, experience poor mental affect, risk (moderate) dehydration, cramps....things I've run across before. But like you said, in many cases the ketogenic aproach is more suited for the final stages of fat loss. I haven't ruled it out completely.
Also, the type of diet that worked for me in the past was a fairly simple combination of P/C/F. 
I realize that my wanting to change might cause some to question my ability to stay with a diet plan...(TP)...this is not the case. I am simply trying to nail down a plan that is more "do-able" in order to avoid any possibility of my veering off course when the Leptigen II use begins. I want the 'test' results to be solid, via consistent and responsible behavior on my part.......as corney as that may sound. 
.....................................I'd like for this to work.


----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 25, 2003)

My concern is not your ability, or lack thereof, to stay on a "diet".  Rather my concern (based on my belied why you have yet to yeild results) is that you are unable, mentally, to lay out a well thought plan, and ride it out, through thick and thin.

Personally, I think tweaks are overrated, and overcomplicated for the average person.  Rob does many tweaks through his cut (as do I) but we have been at this game far longer, know what are bodies do and do not respond to, and we do it to keep things fun -- we like to experiment.

You have yet to see significant results.  I think you need to tack down a course (isocaloric sounds good) and stay the course at LEAST until you get to below 12% BF, which is a long time away.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 25, 2003)

I disagree. I think my biggest problem has been that I devise a plan, and stick with it, but after seeing no results after a period of weeks, if not months, I get frustrated and begin to over-analyze the situation in search of answers......_immediate_ answers. Now, the problem with this is that there are no immediate answers, and unless one is extremely well educated in that which one is attempting to analize, the results of the analysis are speculative at best.
Dicipline isn't a problem for me......maintaining a patient and positive outlook when nothing makes sense is, as it is with many many others.  
Now since I have adequately bashed myself, isn't the isolcaloric diet based on a 33/33/33 P/F/C ratio? What's wrong with a 50/30/20 like Jodi mentioned earlier?


----------



## Pepper (Jun 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> My concern is not your ability, or lack thereof, to stay on a "diet".  Rather my concern (based on my belied why you have yet to yeild results) is that you are unable, mentally, to lay out a well thought plan, and ride it out, through thick and thin.
> 
> Personally, I think tweaks are overrated, and overcomplicated for the average person.  Rob does many tweaks through his cut (as do I) but we have been at this game far longer, know what are bodies do and do not respond to, and we do it to keep things fun -- we like to experiment.
> ...



I think that is TP's way of calling you a candy-ass


----------



## Pepper (Jun 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> What's wrong with a 50/30/20 like Jodi mentioned earlier?



DaMayor,

The 50/30/20 diet is what I have been doing and I have had good success with it. This is simple...every day is the same (essentially) not much thought has to go into it.

On Fridays and sometimes one Fridays and Saturdays, I eat a normal, non-diet, but responsible meal - Chicken Fajitas, etc to "reset" and then start again. I like boring b/c when I have to think, I make bad decisions.


----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 25, 2003)

> Dicipline isn't a problem for me......maintaining a patient and positive outlook when nothing makes sense is, as it is with many many others.



This was exactly my point thank you very much.


----------



## Robboe (Jun 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Personally, I think tweaks are overrated, and overcomplicated for the average person.  Rob does many tweaks through his cut (as do I) but we have been at this game far longer, know what are bodies do and do not respond to, and we do it to keep things fun -- we like to experiment.



True to a certain degree. I also think "tweaks", an annoying word at best, are quite overrated. But the main "tweak" i do frequently is a basic calorie amendment - usually removing a few calories from my diet, and usually in the form of direct carbohydrates sources (which generally results in loss of some protein and fat, but nothing significant). The other "tweaks" i do may simply be adding in a different supplement or amending my training in a way to best fit my goals at the time. A "tweak" by the nature of completely changing all carb sources from oats to sweet potato - á la DP/W8 - for instance, is something i definately find unnecessary, but may yield positive results if you're aiming to get into contest condition. However, i am not, nor do i ever plan to, so this is quite irrelevant for me for the most part.

On a side note, completely changing from grains to vegetables may very well be more beneficial, as me and TP now well know - relating to the various phenotypes.



> _*Originally posted by DaMayor*_
> Now since I have adequately bashed myself, isn't the isolcaloric diet based on a 33/33/33 P/F/C ratio? What's wrong with a 50/30/20 like Jodi mentioned earlier?



My earlier post address only metabolic concerns and totally ignored all/any training-related concerns. If you suddenly drop to a low carb diet, you're going to notice (now i know TP says low carb training doesn't effect him, but he really is in the minority) significant strength losses and your endurance will go to shit. Overall, your training will be quite poor which may lead to loss of muscle. Both of these variables you don't want dropping at this stage in the diet. Ideally you want to preserve as much muscle as possible to keep your RMR up, as well as the obvious muscle retaining issue so you look better when you drop the fat.

Usually, with most people, it takes about 2-3 weeks to adjust to low carb training. Usually, you build the strength back up relatively quickly, so in this regard it may be ok.

Again, i'm not saying that will lose muscle or sabotage your diet by doing so, but i just feel strongly that a more gentle easing into the diet is a much more strategic plan. You'll not notice a sudden drop in strength or endurance, your thyroid won't drop quite quickly and your RMR won't plummet down a few 100 kcals over the space of a few days.

That said, some sort of cyclical approach may work well, where you shift from period of 3 weeks of isocaloric (in a hypocaloric state) to 3 weeks of low carbs (in a hypocaloric state). You would need to ensure your calorie intakes are similar with each cycle, making amendments are you get leaner and lighter. For me this is a malarkey and a half, and i basically couldn't be arsed with such a protocol, so i'd rather start iso, take off calories in the way of carbs to ensure a 0.5-1.5lb drop in weight per week (minding the mirror also and assessing energy levels each week, while considering all possible variables), eventually leading to a state of about 100-120g/day when i just drop down to sub-50g/day of carbs and up my fats to compensate.

Low carb or iso, i refeed weekly regardless - increasing the refeed frequency as i get leaner or feel like i need them more often. when i do NHE, i do bi-weekly carb loads, consisting of about 300g carbs spaced out over about 3 hours in the evenings of every 3rd and 4th days, occasionally spending a full day refeeding every 3rd or 4th weeks.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pepper *_
> I think that is TP's way of calling you a candy-ass



Yeah, I know.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 26, 2003)

........but may yield positive results if you're aiming to get into contest condition. However, i am not, nor do i ever plan to, so this is quite irrelevant for me for the most part. 

-*Competitive shape would be nice, but isn't a realistic goal. (Not to say that it is impossible.)* 

On a side note, completely changing from grains to vegetables may very well be more beneficial, as me and TP now well know - relating to the various phenotypes.

-*I agree. * 

My earlier post address only metabolic concerns and totally ignored all/any training-related concerns. If you suddenly drop to a low carb diet, you're going to notice (now i know TP says low carb training doesn't effect him, but he really is in the minority) significant strength losses and your endurance will go to shit. 

-*My strength was fine, in fact, I had many "personal bests". Stamina, however, was very limited....I'd run out of gas very quickly, which is very frustrating.* 


.... so i'd rather start iso, take off calories in the way of carbs to ensure a 0.5-1.5lb drop in weight per week (minding the mirror also and assessing energy levels each week, while considering all possible variables), eventually leading to a state of about 100-120g/day when i just drop down to sub-50g/day of carbs and up my fats to compensate.
--*This is generally what I had in mind.......granted that I'm mentally capable of doing so.*  

 [/QUOTE]


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 27, 2003)

Monday.................tune in, Lepti-fans, for a new journal.


----------



## Triple Threat (Jun 30, 2003)

OK, it's Monday. Where's the new journal?


----------



## Robboe (Jun 30, 2003)

Wicked title!


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 30, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Wicked title!



You mean my avatar?


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 30, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by CaptainDeadlift *_
> OK, it's Monday. Where's the new journal?



In the works.....


----------



## Twin Peak (Jun 30, 2003)

DM -- since we are getting close, I need you to email me your shipping address.

And I believe Rob meant "OK, it's Monday. Where's the new journal?" would be a great title.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 30, 2003)

Rob's in rare form today.......I am not.

Still like the avatar better.

Check your e-mail.


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 30, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by CaptainDeadlift *_
> OK, it's Monday. Where's the new journal?



Besides, I never said _which_ Monday.

It appears I may have miscalculated/misinterpreted the delivery date......


----------



## DaMayor (Jun 30, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Wicked title!



I will entitle the new Leptigen II journal in your 
honor, Sir Rob.......The _Master-Beta _


----------



## Triple Threat (Jul 1, 2003)

Well, it looks like you won't have me around to harass you at the start of your experiment, as I'll be on the left coast. But when I get back, this will be the first thread I read.




> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> I will entitle the new Leptigen II journal in your
> honor, Sir Rob.......The _Master-Beta _




Now that is one classy title.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 1, 2003)

Oh great, now who will guide me through the experience? Who will maintain the entegrity of the journal? Who will police those who come here? Who will post responses longer than TP's 2.5 word-ers? *sigh*

Have a nice trip, buddy. Hopefully it will be a great read when you return.

Oh yeah....the title? I wouldn't dare......I admire Rob too much.


----------



## Twin Peak (Jul 1, 2003)

My responses are so short because I have to respond in detail to your 5 or 6 emails daily.  There is only so much time in a day.

P.S.  Vacation starts in two days so you wont be seeing much of me until I am back.  Hopefully you'll have it by then.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> My responses are so short because I have to respond in detail to your 5 or 6 emails daily.  There is only so much time in a day.
> 
> P.S.  Vacation starts in two days so you wont be seeing much of me until I am back.  Hopefully you'll have it by then.



Jeeze Louise. 

Have a good time.......

I look forward to its arrival.


----------



## Twin Peak (Jul 1, 2003)

As do I.


----------



## Robboe (Jul 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> Oh yeah....the title? I wouldn't dare......I admire Rob too much.



Homo.


----------



## Triple Threat (Jul 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Vacation starts in two days



This is getting eerie. I leave for vacation on the 4th, we both have twins, and we have the same first name.  
Going to California by any chance?


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Homo.




Of the _sapien_ variety, thank you very much.


----------



## Triple Threat (Jul 1, 2003)

No, no DM. I believe he signed his message, but forgot to actually type the message in.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 1, 2003)

I suppose you're right. I imagine it would have read:

Dear DaMayor, 

Thanks for the compliment....I admire you as well....let's be friends.

Love,  

(The) Homo (Daddy)


----------



## Twin Peak (Jul 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by CaptainDeadlift *_
> This is getting eerie. I leave for vacation on the 4th, we both have twins, and we have the same first name.
> Going to California by any chance?



OMG!!!  

Um, no.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> I suppose you're right. I imagine it would have read:
> 
> Dear DaMayor,
> ...




Then again, I seriously doubt it.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 2, 2003)

Question for the avant gallery: 

What possible negative effects, if any, would taking an ECA stack pose while using this Leptigen II product? 

How about before use of the LGII? Would the ECA's effect on metabolism create any physiological hurdles, or otherwise decrease the effectiveness of the Laptigen?

In other words, I'm using a stack, but would gladly discontinue use if there is any chance of it interfering with the Leptigen.

Input Gentlemen?


----------



## Twin Peak (Jul 2, 2003)

Won't effect Leptigen no.

What stack are you using, and since when?


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 2, 2003)

Ripped Fuel.

I've used it in the past, layed off for a while....but only to fuel my workouts. Now, since I am not trapped in an office all day, and work generally in private, I can afford to shake rattle and roll a bit.....not that it has _that_ drastic of an effect on me.

(Some of the guys at the gym using similar 'stacks' remind me of Wylie Coyote after he swallowed the earthquake pills.)


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 3, 2003)

IdoubledmyECAstackdosetoday..boyIcanfeeladistinctdifferenceinthewaybehave.
I'lltellyawhatthough,Igotanawfullotaccomplished.WooooHooo!AndmywifethoughtIwasaquickiebefore!!!HuminaHuminaHuminaHumina...


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 6, 2003)

Joshing.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 6, 2003)

Currently re-working the diet plan. Actually, I am creating a sort of standardized regimen/menu for the next month or so. Rather than putting together a basic meal and adding up the macros afterwards, only to find that I have eaten too little of one macro or too much of another, I plan on designing meal plans that are dead on my goal ratios. 
Now, this is not to say that I have been entirely lax in my recent diet...because I have not. However, I would like to keep any dietary variables under control while using the Leptigen......which should be here within the next month or so.


----------



## Robboe (Jul 8, 2003)

You got a six-pack yet?


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 8, 2003)

Depends on your definition of six pack......Well, then again, the answer would be no either way. 

Currently, I have an Ab. I figure, why be greedy when a single nice Ab will do? 

Thanks for the encouragement, though.


----------



## Robboe (Jul 8, 2003)

Get moving, you loser.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 8, 2003)

I hope someone vandalizes your car........ya barstard.


----------



## Robboe (Jul 9, 2003)

If they did it would be a step up for me, actually.

A vandalised car is better than no car at all!


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 10, 2003)

True, I suppose. 


Update: 

Diet=unchanged, ~50/30/20 @ ~2285c/p/d (20% deficit)

W/O schedule=somewhat interupted due to business/work schedule......will tighten things up.

Leptigen II=still in processing.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 12, 2003)

Weighed in today....230lbs. 

Please, hold your applause.


----------



## Robboe (Jul 12, 2003)

While i don't always post after your every reply, i do try and read this regularly to keep updated, so at least make an effort to give a more detailed response, even if it's just one big post reflecting on the week --- mood, variables, changes, differences etc... State how much you've lost, how you look, how you feel, possible reasons for these manifestations etc...

Basically, just put some effort into keeping me sitting in your journal thread for more than four seconds will ya.

230lbs - i'm under the impression that this is continuing the trend of casual weight loss, correct? 

Are you looking leaner than two weeks ago? Four weeks ago?

Also, considering you're 230lbs, your calories seem a tad low to me. Granted, if it's working and you feel fine then stick with it, but following the general rule of thumb*, your theoretical maintenance level is 3450kcals, so a 20% (690kcals) deficit would mean your intake should be 2760kcals. That means you're nearly 500kcals short of your target intake.

However, there are too many variables (metabolism, dietary duration, thyroid etc...) for that to be exact, so i'll not look much further into it.

You may as well get into full throttle description mode, cause when the LG arrives you're gonna have to give some good (objective) feedback.

_* On a side note, you may find it interesting that the phrase "rule of thumb", derrives from either early in the last century, or late in the 1800's, whereby it was perfectly legal to beat your wife with any object providing it was no bigger than your thumb._


----------



## katie64 (Jul 12, 2003)

DM, I know this is your working journal, so to speak but you've been on my mind all day and I just wanted to see how you were doing and to say hey..............sooooooooooo HI


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by katie64 *_
> DM, I know this is your working journal, so to speak but you've been on my mind all day and I just wanted to see how you were doing and to say hey..............sooooooooooo HI



Hey Katie. Doing well, thanks! Stop by as often as you like, this little Leptigen journey should prove to be quite interesting.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> While i don't always post after your every reply, i do try and read this regularly to keep updated, so at least make an effort to give a more detailed response, even if it's just one big post reflecting on the week --- mood, variables, changes, differences etc... State how much you've lost, how you look, how you feel, possible reasons for these manifestations etc...
> 
> Basically, just put some effort into keeping me sitting in your journal thread for more than four seconds will ya.
> ...



Actually, my "hold your applause" comment was just thrown out there for the heck of it. I really don't feel that I'm _owed_ any sort of response from anyone. Although, this is not to say  that the responses I do recieve from those more deeply involved, or more knowledgeable than I, in the diet/suppliment game are always welcomed. 

Okay, in reponse to your comment re: my apparently_casual_ approach to weight loss.....Currently, I have perhaps offered less than detailed or what appear to be incomplete entries, and I can understand that this might be interpreted as a "casual" approach to dieting or training. Truth of the matter (no violin required) is that I recently lost my job, and as a result, have (naturally) been somewhat distracted in regards to training etc. since I have had to concentrate on alternate sources of income, and begin my own business.......again. All of which take a great deal of time and effort. But, it's really no sweat....I've been through much tougher times, and don't expect to experience a psychotic break due to this little trial.

Now, am I treating this casually? No. Not at all. Yet, I must admit that I have been a bit lax in my training during the past two weeks due to my work schedule, but this has since changed.

As far as the degree of specificity noted...or not noted here, this issue will also be taken care of. I've simply been holding off because of the ever changing Leptigen ETA....(Not intended to sound negative in any way)

Regarding my caloric intake. How'd you calculate my theoretical maintenence cals? I've always based maint. on 12cals per....Regardless, I believe that I am perhaps a 'victim of the variables'. I suspect a sluggish metabolism, but can only speculate on the other issues without bloodwork.....which might be an option when my finances level out. Yeah yeah.....wha wha wha. 

Starting in the a.m., I will post meals again. We'll try to offer a bit more detail regarding the facters you've listed above, and possibly a few more. I may or may not go into specific detail about my training, (set for set) since this is really about dieting. Although I will include information describing the length, performance, affect, etc. during my workouts.

According to TP, we should be getting close to the Lep II delivery date. Again, I look forward to the LG II's arrival.


----------



## Twin Peak (Jul 13, 2003)

Should ship by weeks end.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 14, 2003)

Good deal.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 14, 2003)

In anticipation of the Lep II's arrival, I went ahead and did a re-feed this weekend. Everything was relatively clean, with the exception of our venture to the Mexican restaurant, which was not. I haven't eaten Mexican in several months, so I'm not too guilt ridden about it.

Today's meals, specifically no.s one and two are slightly off the scheduling mark....hopefully we'll be able to correct this by day's end.

Meal 1 (9:30am...Brunch)
Coffee, 2 cups
4pkg. splenda
1 Tbsn half and half (will change this to cream)
2 turkey burgers
1 cup brown rice

Meal 2 (1:45)
2 cups spinach
1.25 cups tuna salad
1 deviled egg
caffeine free, low sodium diet cola

Meal 3 (post W/O)
Optimum Nutrition shake x2
(added) 1/2 peach
16 oz. water

Meal 4
8 oz. chicken breast, skin on, baked
1 1/2 cups mashed sweet potato
1 1/2 cups green beans

Totals:.........

Been somewhat lethargic today. Odds are, this is due to the weather/heat and humidity. We'll shake it off at the gym this afternoon..


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 15, 2003)

Yesterday's workout did exactly what I hoped it would. Afterwards I was in much better condition than when I limped in. Seems that I am able to slowly, yet consitantly, increase my poundages as time goes on. This is most probably due to my carb. intake, all be it a limited one. 
I'm planning on going to a different w/o routine here in the next week.....Rather than coupling muscle groups, I'm going to the old man's plan, working individual groups daily. Perhaps the lengthened recovery time will be beneficial for me, since I've been dealing with pesky assed injuries for the last year.



Meal 1

1 cup Oatmeal
Coffee x2 cups

Meal 2.....


----------



## Robboe (Jul 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> Okay, in reponse to your comment re: my apparently_casual_ approach to weight loss.....Currently, I have perhaps offered less than detailed or what appear to be incomplete entries, and I can understand that this might be interpreted as a "casual" approach to dieting or training. Truth of the matter (no violin required) is that I recently lost my job, and as a result, have (naturally) been somewhat distracted in regards to training etc. since I have had to concentrate on alternate sources of income, and begin my own business.......again. All of which take a great deal of time and effort. But, it's really no sweat....I've been through much tougher times, and don't expect to experience a psychotic break due to this little trial.



I hope you didn't take too much time typing all of this cause it's totally my fault. Poor choice of words or poor explanation. By casual i meant continuous but not extreme i.e. you're continuing to drop fat at a steady rate.

And re: the nature of my last post. The reason i'm so up your ass about all this, is because you are going to be testing what, on paper, certainly looks like it has potential to be one of the most revolutionary products ever created and i want to see how well it works as well as making sure it works well for you.


----------



## Robboe (Jul 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> I'm planning on going to a different w/o routine here in the next week.....Rather than coupling muscle groups, I'm going to the old man's plan, working individual groups daily. Perhaps the lengthened recovery time will be beneficial for me, since I've been dealing with pesky assed injuries for the last year.



There's that, or the additional work for certain bodyparts may impede strength progression (and possibly hypertrophy if you're fat enough). Working out every day means your delts will get little, if any, rest at all.

How were you going to structure the week?


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> I hope you didn't take too much time typing all of this cause it's totally my fault. Poor choice of words or poor explanation. By casual i meant continuous but not extreme i.e. you're continuing to drop fat at a steady rate.
> 
> And re: the nature of my last post. The reason i'm so up your ass about all this, is because you are going to be testing what, on paper, certainly looks like it has potential to be one of the most revolutionary products ever created and i want to see how well it works as well as making sure it works well for you.



Oh, no problem here..... I didn't intend to give the impression that I was offended in any way... just trying to clarify a couple of things. (i.e., whaa whaa whaa, etc.)
In regards to the newly defined phrase "casual dieting", I've been dropping fat at a moderate to slow pace, (closer to 'slow pace')with an occasional hang-up/plateau, however, all of this depends on whether or not I've stayed in the game 100%. As much as it pains me to admit it, I fear that the occasional brew has had more of a negative effect than I had ever expected. Either that, or I have some underlying condition that I am not aware of.  

In reference to the Leptigen.....

While I, due to lack of study in those sciences pertinent to the pharma-game,  can only speculate as to the functions and/or purposes for some of the components in Lep II, I  _can_ (and have) felt the pulse of the Avant crowd, as well as some here @ IM. And, not unlike them, I'm curious, hopeful, and generally stoked.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> There's that, or the additional work for certain bodyparts may impede strength progression (and possibly hypertrophy if you're fat enough). Working out every day means your delts will get little, if any, rest at all.
> 
> How were you going to structure the week?



There is truth to this, I suppose. My objective was to spread things out....I guess due to my more 'open' schedule these days. I read an article....can't remember the author currently, but this guy was a semi-retired BB who had reached the age where gains were slow and injuries were more frequent. I'll have to dig it up....its around here somewhere. Basically, the plan allowed roughly a seven day recovery period for each muscle group. (I know, it sounds far fetched) The actual workout was graphed out in the article......So, to answer your question, No, I haven't put anything on paper yet.


----------



## Twin Peak (Jul 15, 2003)

Shipping date is still on target, believe it or not.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 15, 2003)

Cool.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 16, 2003)

Meal 1

1 cup oatmeal
1 whole egg
2 egg whites
coffee, et al
Supp.s (multi-vitamin,5 fish oil caps-we'll specify the dosage amount later)
10 oz. water

Meal 2
1 cup brown rice
2 oz. whiting fillet
diet, caffeine free, low sodium cola

Meal 3
1 chicken breast (8oz.)
2 cups green beans
10oz. water

Meal 4
1 cup tuna salad
1 mozarella stick
1 cup spinach greens

Meal 5
2 cups spinach
1 cup tuna salad

Optimum whey 1.5 servings x2
post w/o and as meal 6


----------



## Twin Peak (Jul 16, 2003)

Keep your fingers crossed.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 16, 2003)

*Note to self: Add three sets of finger crosses to workout today*


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 18, 2003)

I pulled a muscle doing finger crosses...damn it! 

I need to up my water intake today...too many diet drinks and not enough H2O.

Anything new on the shipping date? 

Meal 1
2 egg whites
1 whole egg
1 cup Oat Bran (hot cereal)
coffee

Meal 2
8-10oz. Chicken (breast)
2 cups mixed salad greens.

Meal 3....


----------



## Twin Peak (Jul 18, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by DaMayor *_
> I pulled a muscle doing finger crosses...damn it!



Must have worked, because it started shipping today.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 18, 2003)

Via....?


----------



## Twin Peak (Jul 18, 2003)

Fedex, I believe.  Why?


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 18, 2003)

No specific reason....just curious.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 18, 2003)

Y'know, today's my 16th anniversary.Yes, 16 years of marital bliss. ......I don't know why I would even attempt to record my meals, because tonight supper is bound to blow everything out of the water.


----------



## Triple Threat (Jul 18, 2003)

Happy Anniversary. Cheers!


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by CaptainDeadlift *_
> Happy Anniversary. Cheers!




Thanks, man. Glad to see you made it back from CA in one piece. 

The Leptigen II party starts this week, (hopefully) so start monitoring.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 21, 2003)

*In lawn chair next to mail box......waiting*


----------



## Twin Peak (Jul 21, 2003)

I told them that they should ship it to you last.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 21, 2003)

Uh......why?


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 21, 2003)

*Note to self: remove TP from Christmas card mailing list*


----------



## Twin Peak (Jul 21, 2003)

Now that isn't very nice.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 21, 2003)

_Nice?_  Not like you to use such a trite term....you sick or something?

So what's the (shipping) deal? I've got a schedule to orchestrate here.


----------



## Twin Peak (Jul 21, 2003)

Do I look like fedex?


----------



## Triple Threat (Jul 21, 2003)

DM is getting a little testy lately. Carb deprived or something?
BTW, will you be using this journal or starting another one?


----------



## Twin Peak (Jul 21, 2003)

I know, cravings must be getting to him (need leptigen now....).


----------



## Twin Peak (Jul 21, 2003)

I suggest a new journal, agains summarizing dieting and progress to date.


----------



## DaMayor (Jul 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by CaptainDeadlift *_
> DM is getting a little testy lately. Carb deprived or something?
> BTW, will you be using this journal or starting another one?



No, Nay, Negative, Negatory...DaMayor is as (fat and) happy as usual. Considering my current circumstances, I am more optimistic than I had originally expected. Don't you fret none, Missa' Dead Lift. 

I plan on starting a new journal.... 

Seems like a good idea to clean things up a bit, (not to say that _this_ journal has been overly "chatty") and focus in on the specifics. In fact, I would like to go ahead and do this today, (give a brief dietary synopsis and begin posting my intake) since it is the beginning of a new week, and we should hopefully be within a day or so of the Leptigen pII's arrival.


----------

