# Myostatin gene



## BigAL (Apr 13, 2002)

Anyone hear of new supplements that can control the interferance of the Myostatin gene? 

Heard recently a partial news release, that a pharmaceutical company is developing a drug for seniors that would promote accelerated muscle growth. Anyone see or hear of this?


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## Arnold (Apr 13, 2002)

I do remember hearing about how they removed that gene or altered it in rats, and they seemed to have unlimited muscle growth.  That's all I have heard though.


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## gopro (Apr 13, 2002)

If it is possible to interfere with myostatin in humans like in mice we will have some bigger bodybuilders walking around soon. Champion Nutrition has a supplement out now that is quite expensive that is supposed to do this very thing. I am following this closely and will report on it when I know more!


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## elvn (Apr 15, 2002)

wow, that is so interesting.
i would never have thought gene manipulation would go to this type of level where the common person could just buy supps.
interesting and would love to hear about developments gopro.


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## ZECH (Apr 15, 2002)

An article from netrition.com on Biotest's Myostat.......

The Myostatin Project - Part 2
By Tim Patterson 

Note: If you haven't read Part 1 of The Myostatin Project, I suggest you do. Otherwise you'll be missing important background information that leads directly into Part 2. 

The Medicine Man's Hydroponic Farm 

The location: The Canary Islands... more specifically, a high-tech lab, which is nestled among several species of marine algae growing under strict controls in a hydroponic farm. And heading the lab is our very own Medicine Man, who's not just in charge of harvesting wild algae out of the ocean. No, we have him on a mission that's far more complex and advanced than that. 

The research started with natural organisms, of course, but that's where nature stopped and science began to change things rather dramatically. For the last two years, at our request, the Medicine Man has been manipulating growing conditions in order to produce super strains of algae, which contain extremely high concentrations of certain compounds that are very potent and highly active in the body. 

The primary focus of the lab has been on next-generation antioxidants for potential drug applications, but the Medicine Man always has his mental radar turned on, looking for one of those accidental breakthroughs I mentioned before. As it happened, one of his lab assistants was analyzing a rare form of marine algae, called Cystoseira canariensis, extracting its component parts, and testing the actions of each fraction. 

During an experiment, the assistant discovered a phlorochemical compound that presents a structure which is similar to a known myostatin binder. Realizing the incredible potential of this finding, the research team immediately designed a series of tests to evaluate the myostatin-binding affinity of the compound. 

If proven, this discovery would body slam sports science into a speechless stupor, and the data would need to be dead-on accurate. So the researchers thoroughly investigated the scientific literature to make sure all of the analytical methodologies were in line with current technology. The lab then procured the appropriate cell cultures and other materials and began the experiment. 

The first step was isolating myostatin through an established method. This was accomplished by flowing a crude muscle homogenate (liquefied muscle in a buffering solution) through various chromatography columns, the final of which contained a known myostatin binder, called heparin sepharose. 

If successful, the heparin would isolate myostatin by binding to it and allow the rest of the material to pass by unaffected. The last step of the isolation process is a chemical reaction that causes the bound myostatin to be eluted (released) and collected. 

(Note: Heparin is a mucopolysaccharide produced by the body that's responsible for keeping your blood from clotting. It's also used as a medicine to thin the blood. Ingesting heparin in the amounts required to effectively bind myostatin as a performance aid would be deadly.) 

To establish if myostatin had actually been isolated, the eluate from the first experiment was analyzed, using Western-blot immuno-electrophoresis, which positively identified the compound as myostatin. In other words, the experiment was a success. We did indeed isolate myostatin by using heparin as a binder. 

Next, the entire two-phase process was repeated, except this time the heparin-sepharose column was replaced with a column containing a fraction of our newly discovered compound extracted from Cystoseira. If this last step yielded pure myostatin, it would mean that we actually found an effective way to bind myostatin, using a safe "dietary supplement." 

Well, what happened amazed everyone. Our extracted compound actually shows a greater affinity than heparin for binding myostatin! That's incredible! It's stronger and works better. 

This is just the beginning, though. We're currently moving on to phase two of our research, which includes a series of studies that will culminate with human-performance trials. But at this point in our research, we're extremely excited. We believe we're on the cusp of something much greater than anyone can fathom. 

Effectively, we've taken the governor off genetic limitations to muscle growth, making it possible for the "average" human to become, well, "super-human." 

I truly believe that this is one of those rare times when everyone from scientists to athletes is going to be blown away ??? that when all is said and done, bodybuilding and sports in general will be changed in an incredibly positive way, forever. 

Regarding the actual active component extracted from cultured Cystoseira, it's a low-molecular weight sulfo-polysaccharide, called CSP-3???. The compound is highly water-soluble with great bioavailability. In other words, we have every belief that CSP-3??? will easily get into the body's bloodstream intact and effectively bind (neutralize) significant amounts of myostatin. 

CSP-3???... Can I Get It? 

At this point, I'm sure most of you are about ready to blow a fuse with excitement. You want the stuff, now! You're thinking: "When will this happen? Next month? Next year?" When, if ever, will I be able to get my hands on CSP-3???? 

Determining when to manufacture CSP-3??? has been on my mind for quite some time. I've made a decision, but it wasn't nearly as easy as you might think. Of course, if I would've based my conclusion upon feedback from readers, well, there'd be no question. For every 100 "go for it" responses I received, there were only three that voted to wait for further research. But like I said, it's a little more complicated than that. Here's how I see it: 


1) We have proven that we've isolated a highly potent, yet safe, myostatin binder, called CSP-3???. 
2) CSP-3??? is orally bioavailable and well tolerated by the body. 

3) Muscle-mass gains attained by inhibiting myostatin are much slower and different than with pro-steroids or steroids, which means it'll take additional time to get through more-extensive research to determine exactly what kind of muscle-building results are possible. We know CSP-3??? works, we're just excited to know how big the average user can get, and what the rate of gain is. 

4) Inhibiting myostatin won't affect the heart or structures other than skeletal muscle, making it very safe. In fact, it's not only safe, it's healthy. In a study funded by the National Institutes of Health and conducted at Johns Hopkins University, researchers Lee and McPherron found that inhibiting myostatin is potentially an effective way to "prevent or treat obesity and associated conditions, like diabetes." 

Just about everyone who has ever heard of myostatin has dreamed of the day when it could be inhibited, so the pressure to release CSP-3??? is tremendous. 

We know CSP-3??? is safe and it works, so why not go ahead and manufacture it? 

At this point, I believe delaying public access solely to gain more knowledge just wouldn't be the right thing to do. So, I've decided to release the product now, but we have a pretty big problem to overcome: 

CSP-3??? is contained in a remarkably rare and temperamental strain of cultured Cystoseira, which makes commercial production impossible without the use of our precisely controlled, hydroponic farm to maintain ideal growing conditions. This means that, until we find a way around the situation, supplies are going to be extremely limited. 

This limitation, coupled with the outrageous demand that's already exploding for CSP-3???, will result in a shortage of the material. Remember, we can't just use regular Cystoseira. We have to grow, harvest, and extract a special strain that's specifically cultured to yield super-high concentrations of CSP-3???. 

So once you begin taking CSP-3???, you should make sure you have enough to last at least two months before you start. You need to use CSP-3??? a minimum of 60 days to begin seeing the effects, and if you don't have enough on hand, you very well could run out and not be able to get additional supplies for several weeks. We'll do the best we can to maintain adequate inventory levels, but I guarantee, we'll run out from time to time. It's inevitable. 

I'm not just telling you this so that we can sell more CSP-3???, either. It's no different than if you were to completely shut off the myostatin gene; it would take at least a couple of months before you'd begin to notice the effects. So unless you're truly committed to sticking with the program and using CSP-3??? for a minimum of two months, don't begin taking it. Don't waste your money or our very limited supply of CSP-3???. 

But if you want to completely revolutionize your physique, make no mistake about it, binding and thus inhibiting myostatin is very powerful medicine that produces three incredible effects that nothing else can deliver: 

Formation of New Muscle. Instead of causing muscles to grow larger through hypertrophy, you're actually forming brand-new muscle cells that will develop and incorporate into existing, mature muscle. And the longer you take CSP-3??? (inhibit myostatin), the more new muscle mass you'll accumulate. Imagine that, actually accumulating muscle! Also, by increasing the actual number of muscle cells, the rate at which you actually grow will begin to accelerate over time, resulting in bigger and much faster gains! 

Permanent Muscle Gains. Most of the time, gaining muscle is at best, three steps forward and two steps backward. This is because you're increasing muscle mass in a hyper-anabolic environment (in the body), which can't be sustained ad infinitum. Newly formed muscle cells, on the other hand, are permanent. This doesn't mean that the resulting muscle mass can't atrophy, but it does mean it can't disappear. It's for keeps! 

Automatic Decrease in Body Fat. All of the animal studies show that decreased myostatin levels result in a lot less body fat. In fact, the study I mentioned earlier shows that animals with lower myostatin levels have anywhere from 33-50% less body fat, regardless of diet! Researchers indicate that this may be due to increased insulin sensitivity in skeletal muscle that's brought about by low levels of myostatin. 

Bottom line, if you neutralize the effects of myostatin long enough, you can literally attain a much more-muscular, and leaner, condition that otherwise wouldn't be possible. 

Of course, to maximize results, you have to eat optimally for gaining muscle mass and train hard. I can't stress this point enough. You can't just take a pill ??? any pill or injection, or anything else, for that matter ??? and get the physique you want. You have to work hard at it, be disciplined, and give it time. 

And something else many of you are already thinking that should be mentioned is, if you include powerful anabolic compounds, like MAG-10, the entire building process is substantially accelerated. Binding myostatin in a super-anabolic environment is the way to go if you want maximum gains in the shortest amount of time. So, if you can afford it, I recommend that you go through a two-week MAG-10 cycle at least once every six weeks while using CSP-3???. 

If you don't want to use MAG-10, still follow the "MAG-10 Plan for Success" guidelines, except decrease total calories by 500 per day during the gaining phase. 

 MYOSTAT??? 

Super-Transforming Growth Factor??? 

Taking the governor off muscle-mass limitations is now possible with Biotest's brand-new supplement, called MYOSTAT??? Super-Transforming Growth Factor???. 

Each bottle of MYOSTAT costs contains 40, 500-mg capsules of the special, myostatin-binding sulfo-polysaccharide CSP-3???. And like all Biotest supplements, MYOSTAT has a 100% money-back guarantee, so there's no real risk on your part. 

Only start the program if you're committed to sticking with it for a minimum of two months. 

 We truly live in incredible times. I never thought the day would come so soon when we could actually neutralize the effects of myostatin in humans. Well, it's here ??? big time ??? ready to set you free from the gene that stands between you and your physique dreams. 

We believe that MYOSTAT is going to redefine and change the muscle-building world forever! In fact, when it comes to building the ultimate physique, it could very well be one of the most important discoveries ever made. Think about it. Now you can successfully overcome the single biggest limiting factor ??? genetics! 

Why wouldn't you want to experience it firsthand?


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## Eggs (Apr 15, 2002)

Sounds like a whole lot of hype (though BioTest does a good job of making their products sound like the new and better thing)...

but I'm definitely looking forward to getting info on how MyoStat works in the real world.

Eggs


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## BigAL (Apr 16, 2002)

I've read the Myostat 2 article. The info sounds good, though it makes one wonder why no one else has duplicated the results. Some of the chemical terms used in the article do not appear in chemical literature.

I have more questions then answers from that article, which is why I posted here, to find out if anyone else was doing independant parallel research.

Looking forward to your findings Gopro.


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## gopro (Apr 17, 2002)

I'll be doing some "field testing" with a myostain binder soon. I will let all of you know what I find out!


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## Michael Marx (Apr 17, 2002)

Pretty soon we won't even need to lift weights.


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## gopro (Apr 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Michael Marx *_
> Pretty soon we won't even need to lift weights.



I prey that is NEVER the case!!!!


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## epimetheus (Apr 17, 2002)

Sounds too much like a scam.  They want to sell something bad, so they hype it up, say it is on a limited supply.  If something sounds too good, it probably is.

Snake oil IMO.

(would be nice if I was wrong though)


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## BigAL (Apr 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> I'll be doing some "field testing" with a myostain binder soon. I will let all of you know what I find out!



This product you'll be evaluating, what's it called, if you don't mind me asking?


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## ActionMatt (Apr 17, 2002)

I'm not holding my breath on this. I heard the same thing about HMB, the flavones, etc etc, and have yet to see any that are worth a damn.

When/if it is proven that this is worth a damn, I might try it out.


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## Preacher (Apr 18, 2002)

Is is known for a fact that certain types of cows (Belgian Blue for example) grow excessive amount of lean muscle (from eating grass and lying on their side all day). 
Investigators discovered that these animals had certain inhibitors that lessened the release and effect of myostatin on the body.

The simple fact that this interferes with HOW  your body grows (not just make it grow bigger and faster like normal steroids) would make it a big no-no for me (if it ever comes out).

There's no saying what the side effects will be (think giant growth, cancers all kinds alike, etc ..)

Not my cup of tea!

P.S. The Gazette  features an article about the lab-results.


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## gopro (Apr 18, 2002)

The product I will be field testing is called Myostim by Champion Nutrition. Doing this stuff is part of my job. I WILL not recommend anything I have not tried myself or on clients. I know this supplement is going to spur on alot of questions, which is why I will be getting a quick start. I will give my views on this and other supps in the near future!

If anyone does try this product, please post your results. Thanx.


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## Robboe (Apr 18, 2002)

Will you be trying it out yourself, gopro?


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## Fade (Apr 18, 2002)

Hmmm Myostatin test hehehe


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## Tank316 (Apr 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Fade99 *_
> Hmmm Myostatin test hehehe


that will be the Muscle Tech's next ad.


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## gopro (Apr 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Will you be trying it out yourself, gopro?



Yes, I will test it on myself and a few others...unless of course my BBing organization banned it for some reason.


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## freag34 (Apr 19, 2002)

anyone going to try the biotest version of this? 

you have to wonder if there's something to it - you're talking a lot of egg in their face if it's as bad as HMB (not that supp companies haven't pulled worse scams though)


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## Arnold (Apr 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by freag34 *_
> you have to wonder if there's something to it - you're talking a lot of egg in their face if it's as bad as HMB (not that supp companies haven't pulled worse scams though)






> _Animal studies show that HMB supplementation may increase survival rates and/or increase lean body mass in domestic animals subjected to various kinds of stress. The general theory is that HMB reduces or prevents protein breakdown in these animals._



the problem with HMB is that there was never any "real" testing done on humans. (that I know of)


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## oe40luvr (Apr 19, 2002)

Pinnacle has a supplemental protein out w/ "myozap" which supposedly interferes w/ the myosatin and allows for more muscle gains


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## gopro (Apr 19, 2002)

It seems many companies are on the bandwagon already. The basic ingredients will be the same. Soon I will know the real deal with this stuff...and so will you!


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## freag34 (Apr 20, 2002)

The other thing that has to make you stop and wonder "hmmm" about this whole thing is: Aren't the gene's in our bodies there for a reason? Is it that much of a good idea to go ahead and start preventing the genes we pick and choose to stop doing their job?

If you take a look at mankind's track record with messing with nature - which is "supposedly" a lot less complicated - eg introducing one species to kill off another - how often do we get that right?


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## gopro (Apr 21, 2002)

This is all quite true...but it is obvious that many BBers are willing to greatly alter what nature has given to them without worry of consequence. We certainly are not supposed to have 2000 mg of male hormones floating around our bodies, or 10 times the amount of GH, IGF-1, prostaglandins, insulin, etc, either. But, BBers are extremists by nature...unhappy with what nature has "given" them, and will therefore always "go over mother nature's head" in their quest for "unnatural" size, strength and cuts.


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## BigAL (Apr 21, 2002)

To all who are in wonder:

Appreciate that, all living organism are effectively chemical entities (chemical machines), and humans are too.

As such, the "make-up" of the chemical machines varies greatly and not always optimally, hence the concerned take supplements for their own improvement. 

Most of mankind strives to improve itself and its surroundings, while entropy tries to destroy it.


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## freag34 (Apr 21, 2002)

I wouldn't say it's as simple as "ALL supplements offer an improvement over natural", but sure, some supplements if used properly can hone in on areas of weakness

my only point about messing with genes is that now you're tampering with one of the body's primary feedback mechanisms - feedback is one of the most powerful and most useful mechanisms on this planet, and it's what keeps a balance in almost all ecological / biological / environmental systems - thus the typical disaster we create when we try to mess with nature's feedback systems when trying to control pests/kill rodents, etc... without realizing it, we mess with a natural feedback cycle and end up with other bigger problems than we had to begin with

quite a few supps mess with the body's feedback system - eg hormone production, etc... but to attempt to DISABLE a feedback system as primary as the control of muscle growth just raises my eyebrows - not to say i wouldnt try it myself though, i'm a bit dopey that way


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## Robboe (May 1, 2002)

Well, Bryan Haycock has dismissed myostatin binders after 8 weeks use.

Seems like they just don;t make it passed the gut.


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## gopro (May 1, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Well, Bryan Haycock has dismissed myostatin binders after 8 weeks use.
> 
> Seems like they just don;t make it passed the gut.


Well if Bryan has dissmissed them, then we all must listen, lol.


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## Robboe (May 2, 2002)

I didn't say that.

I was just saying what he said.

Besides, does it not sound a little iffy to you that you can basically "mutate" one gene over the course of 8 weeks from a sugar and methane group? and not effect other genes?

Actual gene mutation occurs over time and is not usually correlated to diet (except maybe in the long run from poor diet and lack of exercises, and even then actually mutation is unlikely.)

If there's something i'm missing here then please correct me cause i haven't enough about it. I just read that they were developing a supplement to bind to a gene and so closed the window. it was an involuntary action too.


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## gopro (May 2, 2002)

Honestly, the research is all to new to make a judgement on it. There are so many unanswered questions thus far. I am going to make myself a guinea pig on it soon and carefully track results.


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## Robboe (May 2, 2002)

Be sure to let us know then.

Is the stuff expensive? I imagine it will be.

Also, how long are you "recommended" to use it for? And what's the "policy" if you will - ie when is it supposed to be taken, and how often etc...


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## CDWetzelberger (May 2, 2002)

If it actually does work it sounds like a person taking it could be in danger of getting an enlarged heart.  All the extra muscle I would ever want wouldn't make me risk that.


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## Robboe (May 2, 2002)

I thought that at first too. Does the myostatin gene actually control the size of the heart though?

What i mean is, is the myostatin gene responsible for involuntary muscle tissue, voluntary muscle tisse _and_ cardiac muscle tissue?


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## gopro (May 3, 2002)

I do not believe that the myostatin gene is responsible for anything but skeletal muscle...but all these questions are good ones.

As far as protocol goes, the correct dosage should be taken 4 times per day. As far as cycle length, it seems as if 8 weeks is what is recommended...but it is still too new for anyone to really know.

Price is high right now, but so many companies are jumping on the bandwagon, I'm sure it will come down soon...unless of course it turns out to be something special...we'll see.


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## Scotophile (Jun 3, 2002)

*Go to the source for answers.*

 Hey Guys, I wrote to Johns-Hopkins University when I first heard about this new stuff on the market. 
They have a neat Website.  
The answer to your question:  There are NO myostatin inhibitors yet.  The very University which performed the research to find the effects of myostatin should know.  I was asked to provide the University with the Websites of these fraudulent companies; as a law suit for use of the Johns-Hopkins name in their ads would get them in serious trouble.  
The research is too new at this time.  There is no way any other company could have the data pertaining to the University test results.  They are selling placebo with big lies surrounding it.
Be Warned:  Even if myostatin inhibitors do come about, they will be at least a schedule three controlled medication.  Except through the black market, nobody will have access to them.
As with anabolic steroids they will be particularly off limits to atheletes.  Owning them will be a felony, without a prescription, just as with steriods.


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## ragingbull (Jun 4, 2002)

One point to make about this product is that it is just a receptor blocker.  Your not altering the gene. Many medications on the market today are receptor blockers ie. Angiotensin II Receptor Blocker for Hypertention. New receptors form all the time. So, as I see it, an 8 week cycle just wouldn't cut it over the long term since there would be new receptors that would be unblocked and the longer you off the supplement the more of the receptors as a % would be unblocked. Unless, of course, your just looking to gain a certain amout of muscle and get off the stuff. Another thing to find out is how long does the supplement block the receptor, if it acts like other pharmaceuticals, it could only block it for a limited time, like 24 hrs, hence QD Dosing. If your taking it 4 times a day, I would think that it only blocks it for 6 hrs at a dose. My other question would surround the cardiac issue. The heart is like any other muscle in the body which has receptors, would this product cause hypertrophy in the heart which is irreversible. I don't see how the product could differentiate between skeletal and cardiac musle.  

Just some rambling thoughts but I thought the information could be useful for some people making educated decisions.


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## Snake_Eyes (Jun 4, 2002)

Good points bull.

I've been wondering exactly how much even the dampened myostatin gene expression can have on mature muscles; most of the research involved in vitro gene alteration, not receptor blockers, and I'm not convinced it can have that big an effect.


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## gopro (Jun 5, 2002)

I am NOT saying Myostim is responsible for this yet...but just to let you know...I am up 4lbs since I started 3 weeks ago, with NO other alterations in diet, rest or training. I'll keep you posted.

Remember that studies and theories are great, but real world proof is what counts my friends!


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## Scotophile (Jun 6, 2002)

*An idea comes to mind.*

Hey, we could all become rich off of the same type of lies and B.S.
provided by these fraudulent companies.  Take some new research and a lot of capsules of talcum powder and be a millionaire over night.  
These companies know that many bodybuilders are driven, as they should be, to increase muscle size.  They are making money
off of us as a result.  By the time this "Myostat" proves phony 
on the street, the manufacturer will have made a bundle.
Any of you can do this same thing.  You know about the drive that
we all have to get bigger.  With the knowledge of biochemistry and some physiology we could all invent trash and sell millions of dollars worth before it is found to be crap.  Are you not willing to
screw over your fellow comrads in the gym?  Come on now, they will not know the difference untill we are filthy rich.
These companies do not give a rat's ass about you guys, only your willingness to spend money on what you think may work.
Talcum powder and my knowledge of the medical sciences could make me millions.  
No, I will not do that, but it seems that we do fall for their lies
far money too often.  
Tell you what, when "Myostat" proves to be worthless, as the 
manufacturer knows that it is, let's sue the dishonest creatures
who fooled us.


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## gopro (Jun 6, 2002)

*Re: An idea comes to mind.*



> _*Originally posted by Scotophile *_
> Hey, we could all become rich off of the same type of lies and B.S.
> provided by these fraudulent companies.  Take some new research and a lot of capsules of talcum powder and be a millionaire over night.
> These companies know that many bodybuilders are driven, as they should be, to increase muscle size.  They are making money
> ...




Yes, there are some bullshit companies out there, but your view is very negative. You have no clue whether Myostatin binders work, and also that many companies want to put out supps that work. Yes, everyone wants to make money, but some companies are honest and really pay attention to real research and try to produce products that provide results.


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## Scotophile (Jun 6, 2002)

*No honest company would lie like that.*

Check out the information, which I wrote, a few responses up from here.  I contacted Johns-Hopkins University.  No, there is no such potential.  J-H U. will find the drug and sell the patent.  None have yet been made, myostatin receptor blockers are a future thing.
I have been at this too long.  I am a medical professional myself.
I see the silly scams out there.  There are no muscle building substances, over the counter, just placebos with big claims to steal your money.  Don't believe me?  Try any and all of them, 
waste as much money as you dare.  Afterward, we will resume this conversation.  Thanx.


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## gopro (Jun 7, 2002)

Here are some over the counter muscle building substances...

-1-AD
-1-ethertest
-4-AD
-creatine
-glutamine
-bulgarian tribulis
-phosphatidylserine

I have tested all with measurable results...

As for John Hopkins...why would they ever say someone beat then to it on myostatin binders? They wouldn't. Even so, they are creating a drug, not a natural alternative which would be only a fraction as effective. I am not saying that these sea vegetable products are effective as of yet, but you cannot deny that there are natural substances out there that rival many drugs or at least show some properties of drugs...

-white willow bark...aspirin
-ephedra...ephedrine
-guarana...caffeine

as examples...


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## BigAL (Jun 7, 2002)

*Both view points have merit*

Gopro and Scotophile you both have convincing and viable points of view. 
Supplements that are proven to be overwhelmingly effective are often classified as restricted, case in point the androgens.


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## gopro (Jun 8, 2002)

*Re: Both view points have merit*



> _*Originally posted by BigAL *_
> Gopro and Scotophile you both have convincing and viable points of view.
> Supplements that are proven to be overwhelmingly effective are often classified as restricted, case in point the androgens.



True, but the products I mentioned are all effective and all readily available at this time.


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## GYM GURU (Jun 12, 2002)

Gopro, 
What is 1-AD , ethertest, & 4-AD ? What do they do & where can a person get them at. ! Are they legal in natural bodybuilding ?


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## kuso (Jun 12, 2002)

Have no idea weather it works or is BS....but just thought I`d let you know, I saw Biotests version  2 for 1 sale a netrition.com yesterday.


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## ZECH (Jun 12, 2002)

I have to disagree with scotophile. I have tried some of these new 1-test products, and they have worked wonders for me! Now if you don't want to belive, that's fine, but don't try to talk someone out of trying them when you don't know what you're talking about! I am sure there are some bogus products out there, but there are also some great ones!

GG........1-ad is made by ergopharm. The ether is in Syntrax sauce...it is a new type of delivery system. These are the ones I have tried. The new 1-test gels are supposedly better because of the absorption. I think you would be happy with any of them!


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## gopro (Jun 12, 2002)

dg806...thanks for answering GGs question...!

GG, these can be bought on any online supplement site, and at some health food stores. 1-AD by Ergopharm and by Supertech are the best two of these. 4-AD is put out by SAN in the best form. As for 1-Test, there are several good ones...Syntrax Sauce, SAN T-100, VPX 1-Test, Biotest Mag -10, and a new good one from Molecular Nutrition...gel caps in base of oil.

AS for natty competition...you have to check the banned list of the org you compete with. However, I think you are an INBFer, like me, and they are all banned.


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## ZECH (Jun 12, 2002)

didn't mean to answer for you...sorry! (my brain doesn't work sometime)


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## ZECH (Jun 12, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> 
> AS for natty competition...you have to check the banned list of the org you compete with. However, I think you are an INBFer, like me, and they are all banned.



GP....if you did take these and wanted to compete, how long would it take to get out of your system??


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## gopro (Jun 12, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> didn't mean to answer for you...sorry! (my brain doesn't work sometime)



No, no , my friend...I was really thanking you! Sometimes I miss some questions or don't have time to get to them, so when someone like you can step in and help me out, I'm appreciative


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## gopro (Jun 12, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> 
> 
> GP....if you did take these and wanted to compete, how long would it take to get out of your system??



I would say about a month or so. The 19-nor's may take longer as they are similar to Deca...a steroid that can stay in your system for up to 9 months after stoppage!


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## ZECH (Jun 12, 2002)

I just wonder how they afford all the drug test? Do they test?


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## Scotophile (Jun 13, 2002)

*Let's look at what is really functional.*

You guys have some good points.  Lately, I have looked into some
powerlifting websights and even subscribed to a powerlifting magazine.  In the magazine: "Powermag" ,for example, you find no
theoretical hogwash.  No advertisers of much of the junk that bodybuilding magazines have.  
This is likely due to the functional nature of powerlifting.  Bullshit does not sell.  If it does not work it would quickly be exposed as
trash in such publications.
Besides clothes and lifting gear the only supplements which are advertised in powerlifting magazines are L-Glutamine, Creatine, and protein suppliments.  These three items have a proven history of results.  Yea, caffiene and effedra are also advertised
but these are not actually suppliments but are stimulants.
Many bodybuilding supplement ads are based on theory and congecture and no real evidence.  
Maybe we should consider the powerlifting side of the weight training coin for a reality check regarding supplements.
If the supplements are considered mere foolishness to 
powerlifters; then they are likely
worthless.


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## Scotophile (Jun 13, 2002)

*gopro what have you found?*

This "Test-1" on the market, is it real?  You are a trainer, you know that I have very good reason to be skeptical of any over the counter products.  Without critics, and people who question
"authority" we would all be very similar minded.  I see no evidence of double blind randomized trials, so I have trouble with
trusting any manufacturer that is not FDA/DEA approved.
So, what of the stuff called "Test-1"?


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## Mudge (Jun 13, 2002)

I'm guessing that the powerlifting mags don't have most of these adds not due to disliking the products, but because they don't probably have the size in community or magazine. Probably more content based than the ad-laden BB mags.


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## ZECH (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: gopro what have you found?*



> _*Originally posted by Scotophile *_
> This "Test-1" on the market, is it real?  You are a trainer, you know that I have very good reason to be skeptical of any over the counter products.  Without critics, and people who question
> "authority" we would all be very similar minded.  I see no evidence of double blind randomized trials, so I have trouble with
> trusting any manufacturer that is not FDA/DEA approved.
> So, what of the stuff called "Test-1"?



The 1-test products on the market now are probably as close to steriods as you can get right now! The reason why they are not FDA approved is they want to ban all products of this type that are precursors to steriods. What is double blind randomized trials?? As to the question of being real, they are not steriods. They are a different chemical compound. Close as you can get right now!


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## Tatyana (Oct 22, 2006)

BUMP

Does anyone know if myostatin blockers are out on the market? 

In particular this sea creature derived one? 

There does not seem to be any definative conclusion to this post

x
x
x

T


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## Tatyana (Oct 22, 2006)

OOPs found the next post

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=16044&highlight=myostatin+blockers

x
x
x

T


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## samat631 (Oct 22, 2006)

Wyeth pharmecuticals is working with cambridge college.
its in phase 2 of fda approval.


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## Tatyana (Dec 12, 2006)

samat631 said:


> Wyeth pharmecuticals is working with cambridge college.
> its in phase 2 of fda approval.




Yes but that is not the algae thing, this is recombinant monoclonal antibodies (MYO-029) to myostatin. It will be trialed on people with muscular dystrophies.

As for the other supplement, found this:


1: Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2004 Aug;14(4):461-72. Links 
Effects of an alleged myostatin-binding supplement and heavy resistance training on serum myostatin, muscle strength and mass, and body composition.
???	Willoughby DS.
Exercise and Biochemical Nutrition Laboratory, Dept of Health, Human Performance, and Recreation, Baylor University, Waco, TX 76798-7313, USA.
This study examined 12 wk of resistance training and cystoseira canariensis supplementation on serum levels of myostatin and follistatin-like related gene (FLRG) and muscle strength and body composition. Twenty-two untrained males were randomly assigned to a placebo (PLC) or myostatin binder (MYO) group in a double-blind fashion. Blood was obtained before and after 6 and 12 wk of training. PLC and MYO trained thrice weekly using 3 sets of 6 to 8 repetitions at 85 % to 90 % 1 repetition maximum. MYO ingested 1200 mg/d of cystoseira canariensis. Data were analyzed with 2-way ANOVA. After training, total body mass, fat-free mass, muscle strength, thigh volume/mass, and serum myostatin and FLRG increased for both groups (P < 0.05); however, there were no differences between groups (P > 0.05). Twelve wk of heavy resistance training and 1200 mg/d of cystoseira canariensis supplementation appears ineffective at inhibiting serum myostatin and increasing muscle strength and mass or decreasing fat mass.


x
x
x

T


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## zl214 (Dec 15, 2006)

sorry that i am going to bust everybody's hope here.

The chance of recreational application of any current in research mysostatin inhibitor is not plausible in at least next 20 years.

First of all, development for novel therapruticals are extremely expensive and slow. To get to a lead compound into market cost an average of 800 mil. This process usually takes about 10-12 years from pre-clinical data to FDA approval. Get a drug into phase 2 clincal trial means nothing because phase 1 and 2 trials are based on small samples. It is the phase 3 clinical trials that makes the difference and take the most of the time (3-4 years). Only 20%-30% of drugs in phase two make it to phase 3.  

also, the pharmaceutical company need to recover the 800mil that it spend on developing this drug. So even this drug evetually hits the market, the price would be low, especially if it is humanised antibody. for example, the a dose of anti-cancer humanised antibody "herceptin" costs $25,000. The price of a new pharmaceutical will often remain high until the patent expires which is 14 years. 

this means that for those want to use this product, it is going to be a long wait (unless you are filthy rich, in that case 5 years if you are lucky).

On top of that, humanised antibody is just pure nastiness. There are numerous side effects associated with it, hypersensitivity for sure, maybe susceptibility to infections, hpertension, weight loss, suppressed apetite depends on the action of mode of the drug. the study above mention was carried out was in the name of "treating muscular atrophy", not for "increasing muscle mass". Otherwise, such "medically insignificant" study would never have been funded.

so there you go.


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## samat631 (Jan 9, 2007)

what a buzzkill


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