# Frustrated. Cut or Bulk (photos attached)



## nevilledp (Oct 1, 2011)

Hi guys.
I am 34 years old. Been training for 6 years (you wouldn't say that when looking at the pics).
I am trying to bodybuild, but my body seems to be just not in the mood to co-exist.
I weight train 4-5 days per week, I adjust my training every 6 weeks or so between various rep ranges and rest periods, etc.
My diet is on 3000 cals per day. Protein at around 250grams, carbs around 300grams, fats around 89 grams.
My diet is very clean, I am very strict (tuna, sweet potatoe, potatoe, fish, brown rice, etc). I use 10grams creatine per day, 5 grams glutamine, and some whey.
My weight is 209lbs, my bodyfat (estimated) at 15%, and my height is 6' 1.2".
I have been "cutting" for the past 13 weeks and went from around 19.5% bodyfat to 15%
What should I do? Any advice. I am so frustrated.


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## PushAndPull (Oct 1, 2011)

Anytime someone asks this, the answer is always cut.
If the diet is getting old go on maintenance for awhile. Then finish your cut.
As far as the supps go
I would reduce the creatine intake to 5g, that's all you need
Glutamine is worthless.
Add some fish oil


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## nevilledp (Oct 1, 2011)

One last question guys, I gym really early AM (5am) due to work requirements.
Would good pre-workout be something like rice krispies and ripe bananas (high GI) with whey & water? or something more complex like liquefied sweet potato with whey (not as bad as it sounds!). And same thing for post workout? Thanks again guys.


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## sassy69 (Oct 1, 2011)

nevilledp said:


> One last question guys, I gym really early AM (5am) due to work requirements.
> Would good pre-workout be something like rice krispies and ripe bananas (high GI) with whey & water? or something more complex like liquefied sweet potato with whey (not as bad as it sounds!). And same thing for post workout? Thanks again guys.



I'm gonna say put a cup of dry oats in the blender and then put it in a shaker w/ your whey, all dry and then mix in water , there's your protein & carbs.


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## ExLe (Oct 2, 2011)

cut to at least 9% body fat...

Then bulk untill you are happy with your look. You will thank yourself in the long run...


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## DLEATO (Oct 2, 2011)

IMO, Bulk.

You can still add size while dropping your bf%


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## ~RaZr~ (Oct 2, 2011)

I'd say bulk up. On a side note, do you have back problems? I can see from your pictures that you have kind of a "slumped" over appearance with kind of a buffalo hump going on.


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## theCaptn' (Oct 2, 2011)

I would keep cutting too. Drop your carbs to under 100g a day. Take the majority pre and post-workout (see Sassy's post).

Once a week have a high carb day to kickstart your metabolism in, try and keep in clean as you have been.

Caffine-Green Tea and Fishoil are the sups worth a damn. Whey and Casein are good options too.


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## .V. (Oct 2, 2011)

X 1 more on cutting.  Get as lean as you possibly can before bulking.  Then, bulk as lean as possible and you'll be able to tolerate the inevitable fat gains that come with bulking better.

Then cut again to see the progress you've made.  To me, it seems that when leaner we respond better to the food and the training.


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## getbig808 (Oct 2, 2011)

I personaly dont believe in "bulking" as everyone calls it. Its just a excuse to eat like shit and slack. consentrate on trying to put on lean mass wich in turn will raise your matabolisim and help you to get leaner. I used to workout first thing am also my preworkout meal was like this. wake up 20 to 25g hydrolized whey in about 6oz of water then go start making my breakfast of 4 eggs 1/2 cup rough cut oats with 1/4 cup blueberies 1 small banana and 2% milk. allmost forgot while drinking a cup of black coffee you can take a supp instead of coffee if you like. get you a good bcaa intra workout drink. As soon as you do your last set make yourself 1 serving of celltech(this is what i use it has 77g of quick carbs from dextrose) Then drink 50gs of hydrolized whey. tweek it and make it so it works for you. Most critical part is the timing of your post drinks.. IMO.. Hope that helps


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## zoco (Oct 2, 2011)

Cut first! Once you get around 10 or under it's easier to get bigger and retain the % of bodyfat.This is because your metabolism increases


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## ExLe (Oct 2, 2011)

getbig808 said:


> I personaly dont believe in "bulking" as everyone calls it. Its just a excuse to eat like shit and slack. consentrate on trying to put on lean mass wich in turn will raise your matabolisim and help you to get leaner. I used to workout first thing am also my preworkout meal was like this. wake up 20 to 25g hydrolized whey in about 6oz of water then go start making my breakfast of 4 eggs 1/2 cup rough cut oats with 1/4 cup blueberies 1 small banana and 2% milk. allmost forgot while drinking a cup of black coffee you can take a supp instead of coffee if you like. get you a good bcaa intra workout drink. As soon as you do your last set make yourself 1 serving of celltech(this is what i use it has 77g of quick carbs from dextrose) Then drink 50gs of hydrolized whey. tweek it and make it so it works for you. Most critical part is the timing of your post drinks.. IMO.. Hope that helps


 



When people say bulking here they are almost always referring to a clean bulk unless they state dirty bulk...

If you like the slim cut look great...

But if you want to grow and add muscle mass you have to be in a calorie surplus (bulk) and lift heavy...

Bulking is not an excuse to eat like shit and slack off...


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## ~RaZr~ (Oct 2, 2011)

ExLe said:


> When people say bulking here they are almost always referring to a clean bulk unless they state dirty bulk...
> 
> If you like the slim cut look great...
> 
> ...



Exactly what I was going to say. Just remember that the quicker you gain it, the harder it is to get it off. 

Besides if you can't develop a strict routine for bulking, cutting will be a horrendous undertaking.


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## ooa4oo (Oct 2, 2011)

i vote to cut/recomp whatever you wanna call it. just shed the fat down to around 10% then from there on out pack on the lean gains and maintain.


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## 8thangel (Oct 2, 2011)

ooa4oo said:


> i vote to cut/recomp whatever you wanna call it. just shed the fat down to around 10% then from there on out pack on the lean gains and maintain.



^^^ this

You will ultimately have better results in the long run if you cut down as low as you're able bf wise THEN go ahead and bulk (clean).  Slow and steady, about a pound or two a week and you should be golden!


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## getbig808 (Oct 3, 2011)

ExLe said:


> When people say bulking here they are almost always referring to a clean bulk unless they state dirty bulk...
> 
> If you like the slim cut look great...
> 
> ...


 

I shouldnt have said everyone. I was speaking about ones that do use it as a excuse not everyone that says bulking. allways think its best to cut bf first and start with a clean canvas so to speak then clean bulk. Should there ever call for a time for dirty bulk? Not IMO...Yes i do like to be cut. But thats just me.


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## ebn2002 (Oct 3, 2011)

If you are doing everything you said you should look better.  Are you lifting the same weight as a year ago, and do you keep records of every workout?

Lift more every time you go to the gym and you won't look like that in 6 months.


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## getbig808 (Oct 3, 2011)

What im saying is I dont think he would benefit from trying to cut (calorie def) because like he said he has tried that and he is loosing wieght but his body comp is the same or worse but he is smaller. So he starts eating more and plays the yoyo game. Alot of us went through this before we learned how to eat and lift properly. Atleast i did. I think on a maint calorie diet along with a workout routine that incorperates supersets and is somewhat fast paced so as to keep his heart rate up. He will put on some much needed lean muscle and loose fat at the same time. Im going to bet that when we say cut he is killing himself with cardio and loosing any hard earned muscle in the process. So im trying to give him something that will help him not just tell him cut..... maybe we should be trying help someone thats asking for help instead of barking at me about the meaning of bluking. I mean how did your post benefit this dude in any way?


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## getbig808 (Oct 3, 2011)

ebn2002 said:


> If you are doing everything you said you should look better. Are you lifting the same weight as a year ago, and do you keep records of every workout?
> 
> Lift more every time you go to the gym and you won't look like that in 6 months.


 
See this what im saying. That is why telling this dude cut n recomp doesnt do shit for him. He needs to learn how to eat and workout first.


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## ExLe (Oct 3, 2011)

nevilledp said:


> Hi guys.
> I am 34 years old. Been training for 6 years (you wouldn't say that when looking at the pics).
> I am trying to bodybuild, but my body seems to be just not in the mood to co-exist.
> I weight train 4-5 days per week, I adjust my training every 6 weeks or so between various rep ranges and rest periods, etc.
> ...


 
You can say that again...

Double dipper...


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## KJohnT (Oct 6, 2011)

nevilledp said:


> Hi guys.
> I am 34 years old. Been training for 6 years (you wouldn't say that when looking at the pics).
> I am trying to bodybuild, but my body seems to be just not in the mood to co-exist.
> I weight train 4-5 days per week, I adjust my training every 6 weeks or so between various rep ranges and rest periods, etc.
> ...


 
Eating "clean" means nothing; hit your daily macronutrient requirements.

And "cutting" at 3000 calories? No wonder the frustration! That is a bulk for me. You are actually lucky!

I suggest slowly lowering the calories while trying to maintain strength. Keep protein the same, slowly drop fat to maybe 65g, and then chip away at the daily carbs until you are losing 1-2 lbs/week. Watch the scale once a week at around the same time, don't mess up your macros, and stay hydrated. You'll get lean. Don't do any cardio and add it in once you think it is worth not cutting more calories from your diet.

Once you are ripped, start reversing what you did and slowly add in carbs and try to gain strength (muscle).


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## Badaxe (Oct 6, 2011)

Cut and get your diet in check.  Do some research on the forum lots of good advice here.

Badaxe


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## nevilledp (Oct 9, 2011)

Thanks guys. Sorry about posting in 2 threads. I assumed i would get advice on nutrition in the nutrition thread, and training advice in this thread. My apologies for breaking the board etiquette. Thanks for all the motivation, and complements  Sorry I have been off-line for a while, but I am back.

Mods: if you can please lock this thread and post link to the training thread http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/training/144018-frustrated-cut-bulk-photos-attached.html


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## ExLe (Oct 9, 2011)

nevilledp said:


> Thanks guys. Sorry about posting in 2 threads. I assumed i would get advice on nutrition in the nutrition thread, and training advice in this thread. My apologies for breaking the board etiquette. Thanks for all the motivation, and complements  Sorry I have been off-line for a while, but I am back.
> 
> Mods: if you can please lock this thread and post link to the training thread http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/training/144018-frustrated-cut-bulk-photos-attached.html


 

No worries brotha...

Just busting your balls a bit...

Did you make a decision on what you plan to do? Cut or bulk?...


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## nevilledp (Oct 10, 2011)

going to cut (trying for 10%), trying my best to preserve muscle.
and then bulk. I guess I need to get to a point where I like what I see in the mirror before bulking. BF too high at 15%.
Will post new pics in 12 weeks !


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## jimm (Oct 10, 2011)

KJohnT said:


> *Eating "clean" means nothing*; hit your daily macronutrient requirements.
> 
> And "cutting" at 3000 calories? No wonder the frustration! That is a bulk for me. You are actually lucky!
> 
> ...


 

u high bro?  yeah go on buddy fill up on take aways chinese, indians, pizzas the whole lot hahahahahahaha


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## jimm (Oct 10, 2011)

nevilledp said:


> going to cut (trying for 10%), trying my best to preserve muscle.
> and then bulk. I guess I need to get to a point where I like what I see in the mirror before bulking. BF too high at 15%.
> Will post new pics in 12 weeks !


 
lol i like how in ur OP you stated that this was (estimated)


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## KJohnT (Oct 10, 2011)

jimm said:


> u high bro? yeah go on buddy fill up on take aways chinese, indians, pizzas the whole lot hahahahahahaha


 
So long as the "take aways chinese, indians, pizzas the whole lot" are eaten in amounts where the daily macronutrient total still equals the daily macronutrients set in one's diet, it doesn't matter. Buddy.


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## nevilledp (Oct 11, 2011)

jimm said:


> lol i like how in ur OP you stated that this was (estimated)



maybe "Estimated" was not the best word to use here. I should have explained that I measured by BF using various scales that might not be 100% accurate (hand-held, and stand-on) and the average from the scales were about 15%


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