# Hospitalized again due to dehydration! :o( Need pre-workout sup w/no caffeine.



## Big G (Aug 7, 2007)

I've been taking animal Pump or NO-Explode pre-workout, but for the second time in 4 months I was admitted to hospital yesterday due to dehydration. The doc thinks its the Caffiene in these products that is causing it. I have some straight CEE (creatine ethyl ester) but would like to stack it with something for a better pump / NO boost / energy.

Any suggestions?


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## tucker01 (Aug 7, 2007)

I would just drop the supps for now.

This is meant to be about living a healthier life.


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## KelJu (Aug 7, 2007)

Big G said:


> I've been taking animal Pump or NO-Explode pre-workout, but for the second time in 4 months I was admitted to hospital yesterday due to dehydration. The doc thinks its the Caffiene in these products that is causing it. I have some straight CEE (creatine ethyl ester) but would like to stack it with something for a better pump / NO boost / energy.
> 
> Any suggestions?



Your doctor is a fucking idiot. Have you considered the possibility that you are not drinking enough water?


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## Yanick (Aug 7, 2007)

Definitely stop the supp's, just lift. Have they a blood test? Is the dehydration accompanied by any electrolyte imbalances?

Drink up, eat fruits and veggies, and drop the supp's.



KelJu said:


> Your doctor is a fucking idiot. Have you considered the possibility that you are not drinking enough water?



Dude, you're right. But being hospitalized for dehydration is indicative of chronic dehydration and possibly electrolyte imbalance. For now the best thing to do is normalize all the body's processes by dropping anything that your body doesn't make on its own and getting back to normal ASAP.

After normalization re introduction is fine but slowly and always monitoring for signs and symptoms.


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## KelJu (Aug 7, 2007)

Yanick said:


> Definitely stop the supp's, just lift. Have they a blood test? Is the dehydration accompanied by any electrolyte imbalances?
> 
> Drink up, eat fruits and veggies, and drop the supp's.
> 
> ...



You misunderstand, I am not supporting the sups. I also think he should lay off for a while, my point was only that his doctor ignores the obvious while joining in the "supps are bad" bandwagon.


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## Yanick (Aug 7, 2007)

KelJu said:


> You misunderstand, I am not supporting the sups. I also think he should lay off for a while, my point was only that his doctor ignores the obvious while joining in the "supps are bad" bandwagon.



I completely agree with you on that one. Doctor's in general get a very short curriculum on nutrition and are taught nothing of supplement use. In the doctor's eyes, the caffiene is causing the dehydration therefore you stop it, many of them do not try to educate patients on proper hydration habits. Mostly they order IV's of saline to rehydrate people but don't explain that increasing water intake on a regular basis is important to maintain that hydration.


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## BoneCrusher (Aug 7, 2007)

Dehydration is a symptom of something more than just caffeine.  Either you're not taking in enough fluids or something is up.  If your doc isn't doing something to sort it out then get more help.  If I had just listened to the doc I'd be less healthy right now.  I'd be taking a pill to relieve the symptoms of my rowdy prostate instead of attending to my unique nutritional needs.

If I drop under two quarts of water a day for very long my prostate acts up.  I was like WTF?!?!?  My PCP couldn't sort that out to my satisfaction (he just wanted to prescribe a pill  ) so I went online and found a place locally to get my blood work done.    Rediclinic had coupons (I'm a cheap prick) that dropped my costs down to $15 for a screening that covered my cholesterol, my kidney and liver, and $35 for a Prostatic Specific Antigen (PSA) for Men.  Turns out that I needed to increase my vit C and magnesium intake.  I did that and now I stay at about a gallon of water a day. I also added stuff like cranberry to my snack list.   Now I'm a healthy cheap prick with no prostate issues.  For an added bonus I'm not chained to a prescription bottle


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## fufu (Aug 7, 2007)

I think it is from not drinking enough water.

Solution - drink more water.


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## AKIRA (Aug 7, 2007)

I cant understand how dehydration occurs if theres plenty of water.  Maybe cuz...there isnt enough water.


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## Jodi (Aug 7, 2007)

Big G said:


> I've been taking animal Pump or NO-Explode pre-workout, but for the second time in 4 months I was admitted to hospital yesterday due to dehydration. The doc thinks its the Caffiene in these products that is causing it. I have some straight CEE (creatine ethyl ester) but would like to stack it with something for a better pump / NO boost / energy.
> 
> Any suggestions?


Are you still drinking a lot of alcohol?


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## Blooming Lotus (Aug 7, 2007)

When we use things high in caffine - even if we are drinking enough water, there other things that can block the absorbtion or use of that fluid and paths it has to travel though. Maybe it's something do with narrowing of vessels and something simple like more gylcogen and potassium would help? Maybe an aa boost to help carry them? I wouldn't not monitor and be cautious, but that 's probably what I'd try first.


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## bio-chem (Aug 7, 2007)

drink more water


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## Gordo (Aug 8, 2007)

Start buying nalgene bottles and carry them where ever you go. Get into the habit of sipping them periodically. Set a timer or have people remind you to drink or put a post-it on your computer monitor with a reminder so that when you take notice you sip some water.

Dump the supps for now until you normalize.

Studies show that people adapt to the caffeine. Your doc hasn't read the latest stuff.

CoffeeScience.org - Physical Fitness

Do you work or exercise outside by chance?


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## nni (Aug 8, 2007)

if you are waiting until you are thirsty to drink, your body is already starting to be dehydrated. you should be drinking water all day and throughout your workout.


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## soxmuscle (Aug 8, 2007)

I drink 2-3 liters of water during a one hour workout.  If you did the same, you wouldn't be getting dehydrated.


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## AKIRA (Aug 8, 2007)

I dont want to just jump the gun and say drink more water, but its the most possible solution.

The only time I felt dehydrated was when I was on ephedra and changing my spark plugs in 90 degree weather.  I never sweat so badly in my life.  I got dizzy, felt nausiated, exhausted.  Should I blame it on ephedra?  How about the fact that I wasnt drinking water as I sweat like a slave in the sun?

Had I been admitted to the hospital, I wouldve heard the same shit.

I find that most of the time, drinking water is a burden for me, cuz I only want to drink water when I am thirsty.  Luckily, during workouts I drink a lot of water anyway to keep SNOT down my throat instead of hanging around my esophagus(sp?).  Seriously, when I start to workout and need to breathe, my nose pushes all my snot out of the nasal passages, down my throat (its either that or I blow it out, but its still too solid).  Its like a fucking finger down my throat!


Whoops!  Sick tangent!


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## fufu (Aug 8, 2007)

Sure, avoiding caffiene/alcohol in his case would also be a good idea. Caffiene and alcohol inhibit secretion of anti dieuretic hormone(ADH) from the hypothalamus. (I could go on and on about abusing caffiene) You kindey's will not absorb as much water as the body requires and it will void from the body excessively. My suggestion to you is to cut the stimulants for a bit and and consume some sodium and potassium along with nature's elixer of life, water.

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but caffiene is a potent drug! It can alter your endocrine regulation and function as much as many illegal drugs.


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## Big G (Aug 8, 2007)

OK. Cool. Thanks for all stepping up to help me a here. In answer to a few questions... I think I'm doing fairly well with the drinking. No alcohol over past 5 weeks except one weekend, I think. You'd have to check my food log to be sure. I'm not craving it though. I'm really finding it easier/easy. I just came back from a drunken "luau" and wedding reception (last weekend) and I was quite content with water even while there. It was nice actually. Better.

Regarding water, has anyone checked my food log? I keep it all tracked. I out the daily water at the bottom of each day's log (I know what it is because I carry a gallon jug everywhere). It's generally a gallon or more. There may be some 0.8's and 0.9's in there but it's generally around a gallon or more. 

Regading sun exposure, I don't know. I'm an accountant by trade (I know, I know ) so I don't see sun all day during the week. On the weekends I turn into a full-blown weekend warrior, building decks, sheds, patios, driveways etc etc, so I sweat a lot then. I probably drink a lot of water then too though. gal-gal½ I'd expect. Needing 2gallons every single day just to avoid dehydration sounds a little excessive. Doesn't it?

Regarding sups... I'm taking Animal Pak (multi-vit/min) animal flex (glucosamine mix), 5Htp, Milk Thistle and some Omega 3 oils at the moment. Oh... and I'm mid NHA Stack. Damn. Forgot about that one for a minute. Does that really sound like too much?

PS. I'm taking a week off the gym. My head still aches. Not too bad, but like a lingering hangover.

Gotta go to bed. I'll update my journal and what-not tomorrow evening, chillin'. 

Thx all.


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## AKIRA (Aug 8, 2007)

Sounds like you got the water in check, but caffeine increases the need.  I dont know how much exactly, but I know it helps dehydrate you.  Someone more experienced needs to chime in here..

Bare in mind, that your body just may not respond well to caffeine with workouts.  It wouldnt be the end of world, in fact, I use caffeine/ephedra as a boost, ONLY.  I can still do everything without it.  But, I know...you like that boost!  Boost   Hospital


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## BoneCrusher (Aug 8, 2007)

Big G said:


> OK. Cool. Thanks for all stepping up to help me a here. In answer to a few questions... I think I'm doing fairly well with the drinking. No alcohol over past 5 weeks except one weekend, I think. You'd have to check my food log to be sure. I'm not craving it though. I'm really finding it easier/easy. I just came back from a drunken "luau" and wedding reception (last weekend) and I was quite content with water even while there. It was nice actually. Better.
> 
> Regarding water, has anyone checked my food log? I keep it all tracked. I out the daily water at the bottom of each day's log (I know what it is because I carry a gallon jug everywhere). It's generally a gallon or more. There may be some 0.8's and 0.9's in there but it's generally around a gallon or more.
> 
> ...


You haven't mentioned blood work.  Nobody can really tell you anything more specific (and few are going to dig into your journal for reference) without real numbers.


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## Uthinkso (Aug 9, 2007)

AKIRA said:


> I dont want to just jump the gun and say drink more water, but its the most possible solution.
> 
> The only time I felt dehydrated was when I was on ephedra and changing my spark plugs in 90 degree weather.  I never sweat so badly in my life.  I got dizzy, felt nausiated, exhausted.  Should I blame it on ephedra?  How about the fact that I wasnt drinking water as I sweat like a slave in the sun?
> 
> ...




Get some egg whites in front of you in a tupperware and then read your post. This is going to take some doing to get these bad boys down. Thanks Bro   

That being said, I have an empty one liter bottle from Fiji water. I bought it honestly for the bottle, use it for a few weeks then pitch it for another. At any rate, when I get to work I fill it and it sits on my desk next to the monitor. I drink four of those between 7am-5pm, then once I'm home I drink more water. I'm in the midst of a clen cycle so hydration is of the essence, but even typically I'm still big into the water. If the taste bothers you, get some sugar free crystal light packets. 

Hopefully you get this figured out and return to good health.


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## Big G (Aug 9, 2007)

One other scary thing...

I'm selling a bunch of gym equipment at the moment (gotta liquidate. damned debts) and someone is supposed to be coming round to look at my pullup/dip stn. I was just dusting it off and couldn't resist doing a goobye half-dozen pullups. As I hit #6 (having felt absolutely fine all day) I immediately got a terrible headache. This one wasn't bad, at all. But the one I got while at the gym, which caused me to go to the hospital in the first place was just like it; a nasty, intense pressure headache right in the top of my head. It dropped me to my knees in the gym. If it was just dehydration-related wouldn't that not happen now that I'm re-hydrated? 

Damn... I need to go to the fucking doctor and have 'em MRI my head or something. Gotta be sure I 'aven't got a big-ass clot in there. Surely not. But then, WTF? Dammit.


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## Big G (Aug 9, 2007)

BoneCrusher said:


> You haven't mentioned blood work.  Nobody can really tell you anything more specific (and few are going to dig into your journal for reference) without real numbers.



Hmm... I don't know much about all that. I'll mention it to my doc. He should have the results back from the hospital. 

I'm concerned that the head pain is not simply dehydration related.


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## AKIRA (Aug 9, 2007)

Well did you drink enough water that day you did the pullups?  Hah!  How much water do you drink a day?

Yes, that does sound bad, but I am not a doctor.


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## rmcfar (Aug 9, 2007)

drink more water drink more water

i hope everyone that bashed his docter feels like an ape right now. if health care and the treatment of illness was that simple then they wouldn't have doctors.


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## Big G (Aug 9, 2007)

AKIRA said:


> Well did you drink enough water that day you did the pullups?  Hah!  How much water do you drink a day?
> 
> Yes, that does sound bad, but I am not a doctor.



A gallon to a gallon and half, daily. I never used to drink water at all and I never dehydrated. How come now I'm eating better and working out I'm dehydrating? I don't sweat 70-100 pints of water out of me every week! I'm pissing clear fucking tap water. if my body is dehydrated why isn't it using the gallons of water I'm pouring through it! 

Also, I'm down 2lb from my weight the mornign after IVs n hospital. I'm still 2lb heavier than I was when admitted, but I'm only two days out. Hopefully tomorrow I'm not another pound down. If I reach 172 again, surely I'm dehydrated again! 

Why would I need 2gallons of water daily nowadays just to avoid dehydration whereas I was 33 years old, perfectly healthy, having lived on coffee all day and beer all night. I never drank water. Never. 9 months of working out 4hrs/wk later and I'm dying. WTF!?


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## PreMier (Aug 9, 2007)

There is obviously something going on here that we dont know about.. maybe just eliminate the supplements other than protein for the time being and see what happens, and also what kind of info you get back from the doctor.


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## PreMier (Aug 9, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> It's your amino profile and glycogen inhibiting absorbtion and nuero transmitters because the connector or carrier amino is missing.. Dbl check with your doctor or local sports nutrionist and take care.
> 
> Blooming tianshi lotus .



What?  You are way too generic, how do you know its his amino profile?

Glycogen is inhibiting neuro transmitters?  What carrier amino is missing?

Elaborate


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## PreMier (Aug 9, 2007)

You didnt answer any of my questions to you.  I already know the shit you just posted.. it still doesnt answer how you know its his amino profile.. And I didnt know what you meant by your post thats why I asked



> Glycogen is inhibiting neuro transmitters? What carrier amino is missing?



Your throwing stuff out there and all im asking is for clarification on it.. like whats quoted above.


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## BoneCrusher (Aug 9, 2007)

Big G said:


> A gallon to a gallon and half, daily. I never used to drink water at all and I never dehydrated. How come now I'm eating better and working out I'm dehydrating? I don't sweat 70-100 pints of water out of me every week! I'm pissing clear fucking tap water. if my body is dehydrated why isn't it using the gallons of water I'm pouring through it!
> 
> Also, I'm down 2lb from my weight the mornign after IVs n hospital. I'm still 2lb heavier than I was when admitted, but I'm only two days out. Hopefully tomorrow I'm not another pound down. If I reach 172 again, surely I'm dehydrated again!
> 
> Why would I need 2gallons of water daily nowadays just to avoid dehydration whereas I was 33 years old, perfectly healthy, having lived on coffee all day and beer all night. I never drank water. Never. 9 months of working out 4hrs/wk later and I'm dying. WTF!?


You have reached the end of the line right here.  

What ever anyone posts from this point on isn't even worthy of being called a guess.  

You've provided a few symptoms, but zero data on your body chemistry.  Without those numbers nobody will have a clue.  

What ever blooming lotus is on about has no meaning with out proper data. 

It's been long enough that your doc will have the results from the blood work.  Demand the results not just his interpretation so that you can get other opinions on the possibilities.


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## Big G (Aug 10, 2007)

Kewl. Will do. Got appt Mon 8:15am (after they fucking rescheduled me from this morning, like it's no big deal, it can wait - bastards).


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## Big G (Aug 31, 2007)

OK... Bloodwork results... 

None of this means shit to me, but if any of you know what you're looking at I'd be grateful for any and all comments. Very grateful indeed.

Hematology
WBC (4.6-10.2): 8.5
RBC (4.3-5.7): 4.33
HGB (13.5-17.5): 14.3
HCT (39.0-49.0): 41.4
MCV (80.0-97.0): 95.6
MCHC (32.0-36.0): 34.6
RDW (11.0-14.8): 13.2
PLT (142-424): 197
MPV (6.2-12.1): 8
NEUT ABS (1.8-7.7): 4.1
LYMPH ABS (1.0-4.8): 3.2
MONO ABS (0.0-0.9): 0.8
EOSIN ABS (0.0-0.7): 0.2
BASO ABS (0.0-0.2): 0.3 H
AUTO SEG (40-70): 48.5
AUTO LYMPH (22-44): 37.7
AUTO MONO (0-12): 8.9
AUTO EOSIN (0-7): 2
AUTO BASO (0-2): 2.9 H

Chemistry
GLUC (70-110): 120 H
BUN (8-20): 32 H
CREAT (0.6-1.3): 0.9
NA (136-145): 137
K (3.6-5.1): 3.7
CI (98-107): 3.7
CO2 (22-32): 27
AGAP (6-18): 6

CKMB-Troponin
CK (21-232): 454 H

ESR
WSR (0-15): 6

Ur Microscopic Panel
U WBC (0-5/HPF): <1
U RBC (0-5): 1
U BACTERIA (None/HPF): Rare A
U SQ EPI (FEW/LPF): Rare
U MUCUS (NONE/LPF): Rare A

Urinalysis Screen Panel
U APPEAR (Clear): Clear
U COLOR (Yellow): Straw
U PH (4.5-8.0): 5
U SP GRAV (1.002-1.03): 1.019
U GLUCOSE (NORMAL): Normal
U BLOOD (NEGATIVE): 10/UL A
U KETONES (NEGATIVE): Negative
U PROTEIN (NEGATIVE): Negative
U UROBILN (NORMAL): Normal
U BILI (NEGATIVE): Negative
U LEUK EST (NEGATIVE): Negative
U NITRATE (NEGATIVE): Negative

So... anything interesting in there?
There are a few H numbers. The doc said the 454 reading for CK (CKMB Troponin) meant that there was higher than normal amount of crap in my blood from me tearing up my muscles in the gym, but it was nothing to worry about for a Gym Rat. That's about all he said other than "You need an MRI" and "If you can't afford an MRI, eat pretzels. Maybe it's a sodium issue."

As of 8/30 the sodium thing seems to be working out fairly well. I posted a fairly lengthy post about it here, but the long and short of it is that things to be healing. My head barely hurts and I've even been back to the gym a couple of times in the past week without any more killer pain.

Still though... I'd be really interested in what the other H numbers mean, and anything anyone else has to offer. 

Any thoughts?

w/thx,
G.


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## 200+ (Aug 31, 2007)

fufu said:


> I think it is from not drinking enough water.
> 
> Solution - drink more water.



there ya go


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## Tatyana (Sep 1, 2007)

Big G said:


> OK... Bloodwork results...
> 
> None of this means shit to me, but if any of you know what you're looking at I'd be grateful for any and all comments. Very grateful indeed.
> 
> ...




I will take a boo at some haematology stuff again just to refresh my memory. 

I do think it may have something to do with your salt intake, however the high glucose does need to be followed up just to be on the safe side.

Did you have a pre-workout drink or post work out drink with carbs in it before you were bled? 

Did your anion gap have a plus or minus sign next to it? 

x
x
x

T


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## plewser2006 (Sep 1, 2007)

before reading all of this thread i had a suspicion that you could be flushing your electrolytes by drinking TOO MUCH water...

i dont know much about your blood work
but i would bet that your electrolytes are low or imbalanced

in my opinion
if you are pissing clear, ALL THE TIME, this could indicate that your putting too much water through your system, and thus flushing electrolytes

you should be pissing fairly clear
but if your pissing pure water, all day, every day
then that suggests, to me, that your putting to much water through your system, for the amount of electrolytes your consuming


i wouldn't suggest you cut back on water consumption though...

i would suggest you increase your sodium intake...


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