# Hey Guys, First Cycle, Help me!



## sus250maybe (Oct 4, 2009)

As reccomended by a used-to-be roid head. I should start off my first cycle with Sus 250, and during its peak usage use a few shots of deca

Now heres the cycle i was reccomended by him:
Week 1: 125g of sus 250
Week 2: 250 g sus 250
Week 3: 375g sus 250
week 4: 500 g sus 250
week 5: 500 g sus 250
week 6: 625g sus 250
week 7: 500g sus 250
week 8: 375g sus 250
week 9: 375g sus 250
week 10: 250g sus 250
week 11: 250g sus 250/Clomid 50-100
week 12: 125g sus 250/Clomid 100-150/hcg 1/2
week 13: 125 g sus 250/ hcg 1/2 / Clomid 200
week 14: Clomid-200-150
week 15: Clomid 100-50
week 16: Clomid 50-25
week 17: Clomid 25-5
week 18: Clomid-5

OH I forgot to mention that I was also told to stack with deca but only for 2 weeks
during weeks 8-9 (because other testosterones in my highest dosage will activate at that time i should use Deca). I was told i should use 2-3 shots of about 300g's each. let me know if thats a smart idea or not.

For those of you who are wondering what type of Sus 250 it is, its pakistani Sus 250 and im pretty sure its real considering pictures, prints, and other research.

Now this is exactly word for word what i was told to do.
I do wanna train naturally after this first cycle. I have been training for about a year and i have realized a huge difference from what i started with. Any help, any comments, any type of criticization would help. I really appreciate any help that you guys would give me. Thanks fellow roid heads! ( and naturals who are smart as hell-lol) Keep in mind ive never tried prohormones, steroids, only natural crap that you could buy at GNC or Vitamin Shoppe. Thanks AGAIN!


----------



## VictorZ06 (Oct 4, 2009)

All wrong.  VERY wrong.  

Using different types of tests throughout your cycle at different doses is not the wisest of things to do.  Don't taper your test, your want your plasma levels even at all times.  And sustanon is the poorest choice when it comes to picking out a test, you will be wasting it at the above doses.

2 weeks of deca?  It takes about 3-4 for it to start kickin in.  Doesn't make sense, regardless of dose.

To be honest, I don't think juice is for you right now, given the fact that you said you have only been in the gym for about a year now.  It's best recommended to have a few years of training and proper dieting before you start to juice.  And lastly, for cycle advice....post your stats.  BF%, height, weight, diet, etc.

/V


----------



## sus250maybe (Oct 4, 2009)

Ive been training for about a year but very consistently with a great diet
At this point i am 18 years old and well i have no clue about anabolic substances such as these
I am 5feet 4inches
I weigh about 152-156 (fluctuates)
My goal: 200 (lets start with one cycle)(then work my way up)
BF%: Never been measured but id say about 12 or so
Diet: 3500 Cal's+
Protein: 320+
Carbs 150+


----------



## VictorZ06 (Oct 4, 2009)

You have no business using AAS at your age, regardless of your stats.  That's not what you want to hear, but it's the honest truth.  

Nobody here (with half a brain) is going to tell you different.  Sorry.

/V


----------



## sus250maybe (Oct 4, 2009)

Well, man i appreciate the advice i honestly do but ive made up my mind, and theres no going back for me, its either i do it right and decrease the chances to screw myself over, or do it wrong and increase the chances to screw myself over. And id like to do it as right as possible, which is why im asking for advice. Please Help me if you can. Thank You


----------



## Gazhole (Oct 4, 2009)

If you want to do it as right as possible, do it when you're 24 and have been training consistently for 7 years. Use the time until then to learn about training, eating, and how to structure a decent cycle. I don't know much about putting together a cycle and even i can tell that looks wrong.

The problem with doing it so young, and with such little gym experience, is that your test levels are already really high anyway, and you probably won't keep any of your gains simply because your body hasn't been conditioned to hold on to large amounts of muscle.

I would also be surprised if your bones/connective tissue is strong enough to handle such a sudden increase in force from the muscles and the increased weights youll be using, too.

Honest to god, you can make fantastic progress just by eating a lot (which you'll need to do on a cycle anyway) and training hard (ditto for on a cycle).

If you can't gain without steroids, why do you think you're going to gain when you're on them?


----------



## VictorZ06 (Oct 4, 2009)

sus250maybe said:


> Well, man i appreciate the advice i honestly do but ive made up my mind, and theres no going back for me, its either i do it right and decrease the chances to screw myself over, or do it wrong and increase the chances to screw myself over. And id like to do it as right as possible, which is why im asking for advice. Please Help me if you can. Thank You



Doing it as right as possible would require you to study more about the use of AAS and learn why it's not suggested to use it at your age.  You are risking a lot.  The only advice I can give to an 18 year old kid who is 150 lbs. and has been in the gym for less than a year is not to use any kind of AAS.  

Stick with some whey and creatine along with a good diet and you will be fine if you train right/hard.  Use AAS once you pass or are slowly approaching your genetic potential.  Don't mean to sound like your father, but it's true.  Either way you look at it, if you mess with this shit now, you will in fact be screwing yourself over.

/V


----------



## sus250maybe (Oct 4, 2009)

Guys, thanks for trying to get me on the right path, but illl be very honest, im past that point. Theres nothing that could put me back. Im ready to go. I have had a great diet considering i started off at 110lbs and in less then a year im 150lbs. ofcourse thats not my genetic potential, but i know my genes suck looking at every single person in my family. If you guys could help me structure a cycle id appreciate it, if not i guess im headed to throw a hammer on my own foot.


----------



## Perdido (Oct 4, 2009)

sus250maybe said:


> if not i guess im headed to throw a hammer on my own foot.



No responsible person is going to give you any more advice than was already given. That's because it *IS* the only good advice.


----------



## TheRhino (Oct 4, 2009)

rahaas said:


> No responsible person is going to give you any more advice than was already given. That's because it *IS* the only good advice.



AGREE


----------



## Shadowcam (Oct 5, 2009)

You have been given advice and you are not interested so do as you please and dont come back asking for advice on how to repair your lactating tits and limp dick.

Nobody here will give you anymore advice so give up! 

Goodbye!


----------



## Gazhole (Oct 5, 2009)

If your plan was the appeal to our caring side through some sort of emotional blackmail, you're actually just coming off as a stubborn child.

More fool you for doing something you know is likely going to mess your body up. Nobody here will respect that level of stupidity.

All the best!


----------



## Former Fat boy (Oct 5, 2009)

sus250maybe said:


> Guys, thanks for trying to get me on the right path, but illl be very honest, im past that point. Theres nothing that could put me back. Im ready to go. I have had a great diet considering i started off at 110lbs and in less then a year im 150lbs. ofcourse thats not my genetic potential, but i know my genes suck looking at every single person in my family. If you guys could help me structure a cycle id appreciate it, if not i guess im headed to throw a hammer on my own foot.



Bro, Everybody here has just given you uncompromising, excellent advise. Be smart! Heed these words of wisdom now or pay a terrible price later. It is a common well known fact that starting AAS too young will only negitively affect you. Study and learn all you can about training and diet as these two aspects of bodybuilding will affect results much greater than the use of AAS.


----------



## Sbox (Oct 5, 2009)

WHY THE Hell does this guy who is 18 get more replies then someone like myself
asking for advice/stories when ive been training for years and am 27 ?

sigh  cmon guys i want your opinions on my post


----------



## sus250maybe (Oct 5, 2009)

Alright guys, hear me out.
No emotional blackmail, nothing is forcing you
Simply put: you dont wanna help me dont
If you cant help me dont tell me i cant do it
If you are gonna tell me why i shouldnt PROVE to me why i shouldnt, dont prove to me an 18 year old who fucked up. Prove to me an 18year old who fucked up with doing everything perfectly. A great PCT, constant test levels. 
Oh and as far as lactating tits go, thanks for the fucking advice man excuse my language but if you cant help me then dont go on commenting here


----------



## Marat (Oct 5, 2009)

We are helping you by telling you that you shouldn't use AAS at 18 years old. There is no perfect way to use AAS at 18.


----------



## Gazhole (Oct 6, 2009)

The only one saying you've been doing everything perfectly is you. I'm glad you've seen good progress in your first year of training, and no doubt you've worked hard for them, but progress in the first year is pretty much guaranteed because you've likely never done any training like this before.

The fact of the matter is that you're 18, your natural test levels are already sky high (high enough to be gaining muscle out of your ears), you have only been training for a year, and your stats are nowhere near the limits of what you can achieve naturally.

If you cycle now, you will be wasting a cycle. Wait a few years and make it really count if you're dead set on taking steroids at some point in your life.

Like i said in my last post - if you're not gaining without steroids you won't gain with them, and with your lack of training experience the huge increase in stress on your body might cause you an injury. This isn't taking into account the more internal effects an anabolic compound could have on a teenage body which is already rife with crazy hormonal changes.


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 6, 2009)

seriously if you used a couple great sups and an intense training regimin

at your age

people will accuse you of using steroids anyways...
ive been accused of using them myself a few times.

id recommend using a preworkout like whey isolate and NO explode(my fav)
and a post workout homebrew with dextrose, whey and creatine mono (CEE if you can aford it and NEED IT)
and a couple high fat HIGH PROTEIN shakes on morning on late evening


steroids shut down your hormonal system.
a shutdown at your age will send your entire system into a chaotic wobble

furthermore, your connective tissue, and joints (which can hardly keep up without steroids) will NOT keep up with your gains
and you WILL experience injuries



as i said before
use the supplements available (pre workout, whey, creatine, dextrose) lift weights seriously
and throw in some HIIT a couple times a week (proven to increase anabolic hormones)
and you WILL get accused of using AAS

no need to hurt yourself


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 6, 2009)

some studies show that glutamine increases natural anabolic hormones

you can get a months worth at walmart for $10


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 6, 2009)

fish oil helps support a proper hormone balance, as well as increasing the circulatory systems ability to remove toxins and deliver aminos and other nutrients

you can get a months worth at walmart for $10


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 6, 2009)

whey protein has been proven to increase protein synthesis

you can get a months worth at walmart for $20


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 6, 2009)

creatine and dextrose, especially when used directly post workout have been proven to help replinish and volumize skelital muscular cells

creatine has even been proven to increase protein synthesis

you can get a months worth of "professional creatine" (a dextrose, maltodextrin, creatine blend) at walmart for $20


----------



## Shadowcam (Oct 6, 2009)

^^^Im guessing you shop at walmart frequently!


----------



## Built (Oct 6, 2009)

Well, I was chatting with our friend sus250maybe by PM, trying to get him to tighten up his diet and his training before starting this premature cycle he wants to run, but in conversation I let slip that ... I'm a woman! 
<gasp!>

He promptly stopped answering my PMs.


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 6, 2009)

i do shop at walmart regularly, but i typically order my suplements online...

they are EVEN CHEAPER that way...

i was just trying to let this young fella know that the supplements he should be taking are proven, safe, cheap, and easily accessible


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 6, 2009)

BUILT YOUR A WOMAN!!!

i think im going to go subscribe to mens health, buy some muscletech products, and NEVER LOG ON TO IRONMAGAZINE AGAIN

edit for our young reader
(not that muscletech products are that bad, if you can afford them and have realistic expectations)
at least they are safe!


----------



## Built (Oct 6, 2009)

Ben dur said:


> BUILT YOUR A WOMAN!!!
> 
> i think im going to go subscribe to mens health, buy some muscletech products, and NEVER LOG ON TO IRONMAGAZINE AGAIN!


Ah... there I go, breaking stereotypes, one shattered ego at a time...


----------



## Gazhole (Oct 7, 2009)

Come on Marianne, everybody knows women cant possibly know anything about bodybuilding. You're quite obviously a man pretending to be a woman! THE JIG IS UP!


----------



## jmorrison (Oct 7, 2009)

No one is buying the whole "woman" thing.  Your abs obviously belong to a cyborg male from the future.


----------



## Perdido (Oct 7, 2009)

Built said:


> Ah... there I go, breaking stereotypes, one shattered ego at a time...



But aren't you afraid of getting big?


----------



## Built (Oct 7, 2009)

Well, maybe I'm wrong and the kid'll be back now that he knows I'm not really a woman.


----------



## NJ-Surfer (Oct 7, 2009)

Built said:


> Well, I was chatting with our friend sus250maybe by PM, trying to get him to tighten up his diet and his training before starting this premature cycle he wants to run, but in conversation I let slip that ... I'm a woman!
> <gasp!>
> 
> He promptly stopped answering my PMs.



He has proven himself to be very foolish many times now. Just one look at your pics should have been enough for him to realize we was very lucky to get an IM from you. Dam, I should have said I was 18 and about to use steriods.
Lucky bastered doesn't know how good he has it and he could easily screw up his life forever!!


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 7, 2009)

doesnt anyone read...

muscletech is better than steroids anyways..
stack them and you will instantly be just like jay cutler

anyone who has ever stepped foot in a real gym should know that


---------------------------------------------------------------

its not really this kids fault, the media has pushed this belief on the public. coupled with modern advertisements and our ever so gready "informative, resourceful" mainstream media (like bodybuilding magazines) and this is what young people are disposed to.


STEROIDS WILL MAKE ME BIG AND STRONG...
and look at the athletes who use them, they are healthy and vibrant...


----------



## sus250maybe (Oct 10, 2009)

NJ-Surfer said:


> He has proven himself to be very foolish many times now. Just one look at your pics should have been enough for him to realize we was very lucky to get an IM from you. Dam, I should have said I was 18 and about to use steriods.
> Lucky bastered doesn't know how good he has it and he could easily screw up his life forever!!



 First of all, To this quote writer: your a fucking jackass, reason being im gonna do a great cycle, have a great PCT, and prove all of you wrong. ill have before pics, and after pics, and after after pics. To prove i can 1) retain the muscle
2) Gain mass 3) That steroids and age matter but not to the extents you guys push it to. Its responsibility that really matters. and i think have it considering that sus has been sitting in my locker for over 2 weeks. If i wanted to be a jackass i couldve started injecting myself already and then got the HCG, and Nolv, and clom but no, i waited. 

And as far as the whole woman sitatuion goes, i dont care if your a guy or a girl, i appreciate the help, the only reason i wasnt on is because school has been a pain in the ass, and im training extremely hard. Knowledge is knowledge. and im always hungry.


----------



## sus250maybe (Oct 10, 2009)

NJ-Surfer said:


> He has proven himself to be very foolish many times now. Just one look at your pics should have been enough for him to realize we was very lucky to get an IM from you. Dam, I should have said I was 18 and about to use steriods.
> Lucky bastered doesn't know how good he has it and he could easily screw up his life forever!!



 First of all, To this quote writer: your a fucking jackass, reason being im gonna do a great cycle, have a great PCT, and prove all of you wrong. ill have before pics, and after pics, and after after pics. To prove i can 1) retain the muscle
2) Gain mass 3) That steroids and age matter but not to the extents you guys push it to. Its responsibility that really matters. and i think have it considering that sus has been sitting in my locker for over 2 weeks. If i wanted to be a jackass i couldve started injecting myself already and then got the HCG, and Nolv, and clom but no, i waited. 

And as far as the whole woman sitatuion goes, i dont care if your a guy or a girl, i appreciate the help, the only reason i wasnt on is because school has been a pain in the ass, and im training extremely hard. Knowledge is knowledge. and im always hungry.


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 10, 2009)

well.. idk why you think its such a great idea... but if your so set on doing your cycle, i would make very sure you have the proper support sups, and pct in place, if nobody here is going to give you the help you need for doing this kind of experiment with your body, there is plenty of information on the web about these substances...

i DO NOT support your idea, but like it has been said before 1000 times you should not just be ignored...
if you really have all the stuff you say you have, there is probably no stopping you at this point

if i had ANY knowledge about any of this i would offer my help, for the simple fact that with NO HELP you are liable to fuck yourself over much harder than you possibly could WITH HELP...

but i dont know anything about it so my advice stops at "wait untill your older"

as for the knowledgable members here

i would like to point to one case
a member logged on here a few months ago who lived nearby me named "Bandon A" with the screenname "queswim" or something similar.

i did not know him, but he added me on myspace after he learn of my location and asked me for his opinion and knowledge, which i had none and could not help him

he ended up running a cycle of "Dbol" or some shit against my advice...
then a couple months later another cycle which i know nothing about...

to my knowledge he is 17...
you should give these kids SOME advice

because if the goods are available to them, they WILL use them no matter what you say. social pressure both local and celebrity/media all but require them to do this kind of thing to themselves

and with NO supervision at all they are more likely to hurt themselves than with our advice


just think about it
mr "sus250blahblahblah" could have just lied and said he was 28 and he would be getting all the help he needed anyways

whats the difference?


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 10, 2009)

but just for the record

i think you should stick to the basic supplements for a few years.
they are cheap and proven, and regarded as generally safe at your age

i truly hope you get some kind of guidance because if these products are available to you there almost certainly NO STOPPING YOU...


----------



## Shadowcam (Oct 10, 2009)

sus250maybe said:


> First of all, To this quote writer: your a fucking jackass, reason being im gonna do a great cycle, have a great PCT, and prove all of you wrong. ill have before pics, and after pics, and after after pics. To prove i can 1) retain the muscle
> 2) Gain mass 3) That steroids and age matter but not to the extents you guys push it to. *Its responsibility that really matters. and i think have it considering that sus has been sitting in my locker for over 2 weeks.* If i wanted to be a jackass i couldve started injecting myself already and then got the HCG, and Nolv, and clom but no, i waited.
> 
> And as far as the whole woman sitatuion goes, i dont care if your a guy or a girl, i appreciate the help, the only reason i wasnt on is because school has been a pain in the ass, and im training extremely hard. Knowledge is knowledge. and im always hungry.



LMAO! you are an irresponsable little twat. 

Go do your homework kid!


----------



## zeek (Oct 10, 2009)

sus250maybe said:


> Ive been training for about a year but very consistently with a great diet
> At this point i am 18 years old and well i have no clue about anabolic substances such as these
> I am 5feet 4inches
> I weigh about 152-156 (fluctuates)
> ...



200 lbs at 5'4"... holy crap, you will look like a big muscle meat ball, now, how about if we try to help you with a diet and work out plan first. My lil bro works out with me every day, eats proper, and I only have 15lbs on him and I use gear and he doesn't. Now, he's 17, 205lbs, and 6'1", and ripped, he gained 20 lbs this summer til now just lifting and using a proper diet plan. He wants to use gear too but he still keeps getting bigger and stronger so I keep saying "no" just like these guys are telling you...You don't need gear yet....you have more natural test in your body right now than most of take...the big key is diet,diet, diet. I know I will help you with a diet, and lifting program, I am sure everyone else here will too, give this a chance for 6 months first, if you don't like the results then do whatever you want after that.  Gear is not a magic drug, you can't take it and instantly get huge, it takes alot of years to get huge like you want.


----------



## Perdido (Oct 10, 2009)

sus250maybe said:


> First of all, To this quote writer: your a fucking jackass, reason being im gonna do a great cycle, have a great PCT, and prove all of you wrong. ill have before pics, and after pics, and after after pics. To prove i can 1) retain the muscle
> 2) Gain mass



No one is saying those things won't happen...you've totally missed the point so knock yourself out bro.


----------



## Built (Oct 10, 2009)

If you still want my help drop me a PM.


----------



## sus250maybe (Oct 10, 2009)

ben dur, you pretty much put it the way i think. I have em. no stopping me. Shadow cam, im gonna prove your ass wrong. You'll see my responsibility, and unresponsibility, before i start, after i start. and a few months after im done. You'll be surprised i guarantee it. Rahaas its not that ive missed the point, i got it a long time ago, but you missed the point. Theres no stopping me. at this point you guys probably think im the biggest jackass alive. Im in no position to compare myself to Arnold Schwarzenegger but was he the same jackass when he started at under 16? And once again to ben dur i did get the help i needed, i got a cycle that makes tons more sense, that seems to be a lot better for me. Thanks to everyone. And a special thanks to shadowcam, those words push me harder and harder.


----------



## jmorrison (Oct 11, 2009)

The point just sort of whooshes over your head doesn't it?  You are going to prove shadowcam wrong....how?  No one is saying you won't make gains.  No one is saying that you won't get ripped.

Everyone is saying that shutting down your natural test at 18 is window-licking.  You are going to SHUT DOWN your natural test production POSSIBLY FOREVER for a slight increase in overall body testesterone.

You should continue to eat, train, sleep for a few more years and take advantage of your own test while you have it.


----------



## sus250maybe (Oct 11, 2009)

jmorrison, i dont know if you read the previous posts or not. first of all, natural test production will only go down cause your body doesnt need it. theres HCG, and Clomid, to help that go back up. a 15 YEAR OLD could take steroids, and still end up having normal test production. Theres a point of a PCT and thats exactly it. What im gonna prove to shadowcam is the fact that i could make gains on a cycle, and once im off the cycle still make gains proving that my natural test production has not been cut off. Once again lemme remind you that TONS of bodybuilders have done this(taken steroids under the age of 18).


----------



## Shadowcam (Oct 11, 2009)

We have a smart cookie on board!

I give up and I suggest everyone else should also.


----------



## jmorrison (Oct 11, 2009)

Hey guys!  Gimme advice!  Gimme advice!  I'm going to argue with whatever you tell me, and do what I want anyway, but gimme advice! 

Hell I don't need advice anyway!  I am an 18 year old expert!


----------



## Shadowcam (Oct 11, 2009)

^^^Summary of this thread^^^


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 11, 2009)

if this kid has been assisted in whatever way he was assisted, and the conversation has been demoralized to the point of bickering and arguing i think this one should just be closed...


----------



## jmorrison (Oct 11, 2009)

I disagree.  I think that if there is a shred of hope that someone will say whatever needs to be said to get through this kids head BEFORE he hurts himself, then it's worth trying.  I wouldn't give up trying to talk someone out of killing themselves, snorting crack, or robbing a bank either, even if they DID have their minds made up.


----------



## Perdido (Oct 11, 2009)

jmorrison said:


> I disagree.  I think that if there is a shred of hope that someone will say whatever needs to be said to get through this kids head BEFORE he hurts himself, then it's worth trying.  I wouldn't give up trying to talk someone out of killing themselves, snorting crack, or robbing a bank either, even if they DID have their minds made up.



Maybe he'll be back to show off his huge physique along with his tiny raisin nuts that have quit working permanently, bitchen about he can't get wood & how much HRT now is costing him.


----------



## Built (Oct 11, 2009)

Is HRT expensive in the US? 

It's pretty cheap here.


----------



## Perdido (Oct 11, 2009)

Built said:


> Is HRT expensive in the US?
> 
> It's pretty cheap here.



I've read in anti aging brochures that if you go to a center getting all of the blood work done it's somewhere in the range of like $1200 to $1500 a month.
I don't believe it's covered under allot of insurance plans either but I could be wrong. I'm assuming getting HRT is close to the same as what AA clinics would do.


----------



## Built (Oct 11, 2009)

Holy CRAP. 

We pay $40 for an amp of 10ml of Test Cyp, 100mg/ml. Hubby goes through one every 6 weeks. 

Well, okay, WE don't pay ANYTHING - our health plan picks it up, but that's because of our extended health plan. If we had different jobs without extended health, it would cost us the forty bucks! 

I <3 Canada!


----------



## sus250maybe (Oct 11, 2009)

no thats not true jmorrison, i listen to all advice anyone gives me but i decide whether or not what i wanna do. If your just gonna tell me to not do whatever i was going to do simply because you have no fucking clue whether it could or could not shut down the test in my body (after all you have NO PROOF), When you do ill consider listening to you. Listen, im not here to create hard feelings between me and you or anyone. i was here for advice, and i get some of it to an extent. And rahaas just for you ill be taking pictures of my nuts as we go along....its your choice if you wanna see em at the end or not. (I am dead serious, and not trying be rude, or perverted, or gay)....And ill make sure i send you one with a hard dick too. And if that doesnt happen i will come back, I will literally say sorry to all of you. Really at this point nobody on this forum could decide what's gonna happen to me not even myself. We'll all find in a few months and I WILL be back to tell you all. 
IF i fuck up my life, atleast i know that i did it cause i wanted to and not cause some jackass told me to.
If i successfully accomplished my goals i will have a shitload more confidence in myself, pride, a great physique, and bragging rights.
See you all in a few months.


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 11, 2009)

well...
your nuts willl shrink on AAS
thats just a fact

they SHOULD return to normal after your cycle is over but
they WILL shrink

thats part of taking AAS
your natural hormonal system shuts down while ON
and then (hopefully) turns back on when you go OFF

and even in healthy adults it takes quite awhile for your natural levels to return to acceptable levels, and almost never to the previous levels

and all that is to say you didnt overextend your cycle, use an excessive dosage, and your PCT is spot on...

and the younger you are, the greater the NEGATIVE effects will be, and the lower the positive effect will be, because there is a lower contrast between natural and synthetic

you could ramp up dosages to achieve a greater effect, at the cost of a harder shutdown, and more drawn out recovery (that is to say you DO recover anyways) and the lower your natural levels will end up at after everything is said and done


so go ahead and take pictures of your nuts...
after a couple weeks you will wish you had never decided to mess with AAS at your age...

god forbid any young ladies get the opportunity to see your tiny ball sack while you are ON... that alone could be devastating to your sexual health


----------



## Shadowcam (Oct 11, 2009)

Built said:


> Holy CRAP.
> 
> We pay $40 for an amp of 10ml of Test Cyp, 100mg/ml. Hubby goes through one every 6 weeks.
> 
> ...



In Australia its about $35 aus for a pack of three pre-filled 1ml vials 250mg/ml Test E.


----------



## Built (Oct 11, 2009)

Works out to very close to the same.  Nice.


----------



## jmorrison (Oct 11, 2009)

I am done debating this with you.  You have been told the risks and are going to continue anyway.  That is about as smart as sticking your head into a microwave.  You want me to PROVE to you that it is unhealthy? Why in the hell do I need to PROVE anything to you, you ignorant little shit.  There are COUNTLESS sources for you to read on that will explain to you why steroids are a short bus idea for someone under the age of 21.  Here is an idea, Fucking research.  Go to google and type it in.

Of course this is how you found this site to begin with, and you have chosen to completely disregard the advice given to you by experienced athletes, because it isn't what you want to hear.  You are disrespectful to the people that are trying to help, and demand PROOF that what you are doing it retarded.

Ask yourself this.  Why in the hell would anyone here try to talk you out of steroids, if they were in the slightest bit a decent idea for you?!  What in the world do any of them stand to gain?  Do you think that this is an anti-steroid forum?  These people are more than happy to help someone who needs it.  You DO NOT NEED STEROIDS, in fact THEY ARE A HORRIBLE IDEA.

Here is a nicely summed up reasoning why you shouldn't, although I am sure you will ignore it too.  I genuinely hope you listen and avoid messing yourself up.

linked from:

AnandTech - Are You A Teenager Thinking about using Steroids/Prohormones?


Health Risks 

When you are under 21, your endocrine system is still developing. This should be obvious as you are still going through the end of puberty, getting acne, etc. During this time peroid, supplementing with extrogenous hormones is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. There is potential for very serious and long term side effects to occur. I hear all the time some of these people saying that "I've stopped growing, so it's okay". No - it's not okay. There are many other potential side effects besides growth plates. Here is a list of a few. 

1) Premature closing of growth plates. This one is the most known about. Even if you think you have stopped growing, there still is a potential for height increase over time. I have known people who are 18+ who have continued to grow in height. Scientists know that growth plates don't fuse completely in some cases until individuals are past 22. Don't be deterred just because you haven't grown taller in awhile. 

2) Impotence. Supplementing with hormones while you are still growing can potentially cause PERMANENT impotence and fertility issues in teenagers. When you add testosterone, estrogen and a wealth of other synthetic androgens to your body it can cause problems with your normal testicular growth and function. Remember, some of these effects are more than just temporary. 

3) Liver/Kidney Problems. I hear all the time teenagers say "Well my friends used it and they got big and nothing happened to them." Really? How do you know? Have they been to a doctor and had their liver and kidney values checked? I doubt it. Just because a person looks okay on the outside, doesn't mean that they could have a host of problems on the inside. Liver and kidney damage is nothing short of serious. This can occur even in people who are past their teen years. 

4) Gyno or "bitch tits". I believe this using androgens in teens can really increase the risk of gyno. Gyno has been known to happen naturally in many teenagers because of already fluxating hormones. When you add more hormones to the mix, you dramatically increase the problems. Remember that once you have gyno, its very hard to get rid of unless you take the proper precautions up front. 

5) Hair loss/acne/prostate aggrevation, etc. All of these can be increased and agrevated with external androgen use. Have you ever seen a 20 year old going bald? It's not pretty. Don't think it can't happen to you. 

6) Brain function. It is well known that hormones play a role in development of cognative brain function. Adding external hormones when your brain is still developing could be a disaster waiting to happen. How can you now many years down the road there won't be problems? 

Psychological Problems 

Being a teenager can be difficult as it is. Getting used to your own body image can be hard if you feel you're different than everyone else. Many teenagers turn to bodybuilding to help improve that image, and that can be a very healthy thing. However, when a teenager becomes obsessed or is only after short term goals of getting ripped in 6 weeks then it can be a very serious problem when prohormones/steroids get in the mix. 

1) Abuse. There is a high potential for abuse when individuals turn to prohormones/steroids when they aren't mature enough to handle them. Most of these individuals had these substances recommended to them by friends with erroneous data presented to them on how to use them and how they work. I have seen teenagers on this board claim to never come off cycles of Mag-10 and 1AD. There is no reason to abuse your body like that. Never coming off hormones can have even greater risks than using them for the short term, such as halting normal hormone production permantely. If you have a problem and want to discuss it with us, please post it. 

Legal Problems 

Using steroids and prohormones underage can have very obvious legal implications. Since all prohormones have labels on them indicated that they are not for use for individuals under 18, you take into liability not only yourself and your family, but risk liability on the manufacturer and seller who sold these substances to you. By doing this, you are hurting the community who use these substances responsibly. Take responsibility for yourself and stay away from these. Causing harm to yourself is one thing, but everytime a teenager uses prohormones, the potential for them being banned increases. Here are some other problems 

1) Drug testing. If you are a teenager playing sports, using steroids and prohormones can seem like a good idea to increase your performance. How would it look if you suddenly got tested for them? Being tested for prohormones WILL SHOW UP AS STEROIDS. You will have no recourse for this, and could potentially find yourself being investigated by the authorities. 

2) Purchasing steroids is already illegal, but purchasing prohormones can have implications as well. As I already said, on all bottles of prohormones there is a label saying "Not for use for individuals under 18". That is not just printed on there as a joke, that is on there for a reason. If you bought these substances underage and then got into trouble or had one of the side effects listed above from taking these, what do you think your parents are going to do? They are probably going to sue the manufacturer, sue the seller, and possibly contact their congressmen demanding these substances be banned. You just screwed everyone because you were in a hurry to get some quick muscle. Take into consideration the rest of us before you make your irresponsible purchases. 

Please read this over and think about what your goals are a long time before you decide to take your health into jeopardy and risk legal repercussions by using prohormones and steroids as a teenager. You not only endanger yourself, but all of us who want to or may want to use prohormones one day. We all want to have good gains and have pefect bodies, thats why we're here. But rushing into things and abusing susbstances is not the answer. There is absolutely no justification for teenagers to use prohormones or steroids. None. So, before you decide to use them - please take some time out, and make a post describing your training, diet and supplemenation. I know that me and the other members of the board would be more than happy to help you make some changes to your diet and training to help gain naturally, without the use of androgens. Doing this, you will save us all a a lot of grief.


----------



## sus250maybe (Oct 12, 2009)

Lol ben dur btw, i dont really care for shrinked nuts, as long as the cock doesnt shrink.

Jmorrison: Listen I definitly understand what your saying. none of you people get shit from giving me the right or wrong advice and i realize that. But what you dont realize is that your basing this on what was put in your heads. HAve you honestly seen a 16 year old take steroids? and seen what has happened to him? Probably not. And then what are the chances that he'd be the same as me. IN a sense this is an experiment and we all have our educated guesses but nobody really has the hardcore truth. believe it or not, im pretty fucking sure that everyone who has told me not to take roids is probably right and I probably will fuck my life up. But my mind is so strongly made up that i am ready for permanently shrunk testicles, i am ready for bitch tits, i am reading for gyno problems, IF it comes down to it. Once again dont take this wrong way, i honestly appreciate all your time invested into this forum but then again even if i wanted to i cant go back. Ive reread these posts over and over, and at this point the only right thing seems to be AAS. And as far as plate growth goes they measure bone age....when i got my bone age measured when i was 13 and a 1 month it was about 13 and 6 months. When i get it measured at 15 1/2 it was about 19 years old. When i got it measured at 17 i was past 21. So as far as that goes Chronologically i might be 18(19 in one week) But my bone age says something else.


----------



## sus250maybe (Oct 12, 2009)

oh and as far as sexual health goes, im fine. no one lady could devastate me by telling me my balls are too small. There aren't enough ladies in the world. Call it arrogance, call it self confidence, call it self esteem but i couldnt care less. at The end of the day as long as they go back to being somewhat normal. Im a happy man.


----------



## sus250maybe (Oct 12, 2009)

Oh and one more thing something you will always find in those types of articles is the word "Potential risk". why doesnt it ever say  a definite risk? or atleast based on a test subject?


----------



## jmorrison (Oct 12, 2009)

I at least take back the name calling, but I can't edit threads.  rereading you don't seem like you are intentionally disrespectful.

Good luck man.  I really hope it works out for you, sincerely.


----------



## Built (Oct 12, 2009)

sus250maybe said:


> Oh and one more thing something you will always find in those types of articles is the word "Potential risk". why doesnt it ever say  a definite risk? or atleast based on a test subject?



There are very few drugs that have definite risks. Those are called "poisons". 

Seriously, scientists are cautious and pedantic in their language for a reason - they have to be very, very precise in what they report. 

Another huge problem here is the fact that there can be no controlled studies on the effects of steroids on healthy adolescent boys because it's not ethical - we can only extrapolate (that means "guess" by reaching beyond the data we have) based on what we know from accidental use and from cases where steroids may have been used as treatments, for example on burn victims, to prevent tissue wasting. Normals don't behave quite the same as burn victims but some of the processes - sealing the growth plates for instance - happen to all of us eventually. 

The growth plates appear to be sensitive to estrogen. When you get a surge in testosterone (for example, in youth, or when you run a cycle) there is so much extra that initially, your aromatase enzymes convert a whole pile of it into estrogen. That's why a lot of teenage boys get gyno. This estrogen shuts off the growth plates in your bones, so you stop growing taller. 

In girls, our estrogen surge happens earlier, because of our ovaries. That's why women are usually shorter than men, and it's also why boys who develop masculine features while young are often shorter than average - all that extra test that kicked in early got the estrogen closing the growth plates early as well. And it's why boys who use anabolic steroids are shorter than those who do not. You can read about this on PubMed Home, look up diseases such as Turner syndrome and Sjögren's syndrome, also adolescent hypogonadism, to investigate the effect of early testosterone use in boys. 



jmorrison said:


> I at least take back the name calling, but I can't edit threads.  rereading you don't seem like you are intentionally disrespectful.
> 
> Good luck man.  I really hope it works out for you, sincerely.



This was a nice thing to say. Thank you.


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 12, 2009)

a definite risk would be known as a

"known adverse effect"

the word "risk" implies that it could happen, or could not.

there are precautions that can be taken to reduce all these risks, the first being to let your body mature naturally, although this doesnt seem likely to me.

just make absolute certain that you take the necessary precautions, and LISTEN to your body.

getting your liver enzymes tested, and making sure you have ALL the proper supports BEFORE your commence.

im no expert on the subject, and i cant say that ive been 100% immaculate in my own health throughout the years...

you must understand, we are sincerely just looking out for your well being.

good luck man, and please make sure you do this responsibly if you insist on doing it.


----------



## jbish8 (Oct 12, 2009)

sus250maybe said:


> HAve you honestly seen a 16 year old take steroids? and seen what has happened to him? Probably not. And then what are the chances that he'd be the same as me. IN a sense this is an experiment and we all have our educated guesses but nobody really has the hardcore truth. believe it or not, im pretty fucking sure that everyone who has told me not to take roids is probably right and I probably will fuck my life up. But my mind is so strongly made up that i am ready for permanently shrunk testicles, i am ready for bitch tits, i am reading for gyno problems, IF it comes down to it.



I haven't seen a 16 year old take them.......he was 18, my bro in law is now 24 and finally had to get his breasts removed through surgery after suffering for 6 years trying to figure out a less expensive way (insurance won't cover it) to get rid of them. He's now happily married........although he's been struggling to get his wife pregnant for the last year and a half.....I wonder why?
Sure he got really strong, and big for a while, although he never got ripped, because he never learned good nutrition and workout skills. Now he's lost every bit of the gains he once had (for maybe a year), and is recovering from gyno surgery before being able to lift again. He's now asking me what I do to stay "ripped" year round, while continuing to gain lean mass and get stronger. Well it's no secret, and everyone here has already told you, it simply takes some determination, effort, and knowledge. 
So what are the chances this could happen to you, you ask? I dunno......but who cares, as long as there is a chance. My brother in law said the same crap you're saying, how he "didn't care about gyno, and could handle all the side effects", but he admits now he just really either hadn't really thought about the consequences or really didn't believe it could happen to him. After reading your responses, you sound exactly like him.
Keep in mind, this was at a time when I would have killed to have his progress naturally. Sure your buddies might look like they're doing the right thing, but I guarantee it will catch up to them. 
You have nothing to lose to give yourself a couple of months to try out a different "experiment" first. Your gear will still be there if what we are saying isn't true, but why not hold off for a couple of months and let Built and others help you gain some invaluable knowledge that will help you permanently and even increase your results when you do decide to use.
You say you're responsible, so why don't YOU PROVE IT.


----------



## Built (Oct 12, 2009)

jbish8 said:


> I haven't seen a 16 year old take them.......he was 18, my bro in law is now 24 and finally had to get his breasts removed through surgery after suffering for 6 years trying to figure out a less expensive way (insurance won't cover it) to get rid of them. He's now happily married........although he's been struggling to get his wife pregnant for the last year and a half.....I wonder why?
> Sure he got really strong, and big for a while, although he never got ripped, because he never learned good nutrition and workout skills. Now he's lost every bit of the gains he once had (for maybe a year), and is recovering from gyno surgery before being able to lift again. He's now asking me what I do to stay "ripped" year round, while continuing to gain lean mass and get stronger. Well it's no secret, and everyone here has already told you, it simply takes some determination, effort, and knowledge.
> So what are the chances this could happen to you, you ask? I dunno......but who cares, as long as there is a chance. My brother in law said the same crap you're saying, how he "didn't care about gyno, and could handle all the side effects", but he admits now he just really either hadn't really thought about the consequences or really didn't believe it could happen to him. After reading your responses, you sound exactly like him.
> Keep in mind, this was at a time when I would have killed to have his progress naturally. Sure your buddies might look like they're doing the right thing, but I guarantee it will catch up to them.
> ...



This was a great post. Thank you for this.


----------



## NJ-Surfer (Oct 12, 2009)

sus250maybe said:


> First of all, To this quote writer: your a fucking jackass, reason being im gonna do a great cycle, have a great PCT, and prove all of you wrong. ill have before pics, and after pics, and after after pics. To prove i can 1) retain the muscle
> 2) Gain mass 3) That steroids and age matter but not to the extents you guys push it to. Its responsibility that really matters. and i think have it considering that sus has been sitting in my locker for over 2 weeks. If i wanted to be a jackass i couldve started injecting myself already and then got the HCG, and Nolv, and clom but no, i waited.
> 
> And as far as the whole woman sitatuion goes, i dont care if your a guy or a girl, i appreciate the help, the only reason i wasnt on is because school has been a pain in the ass, and im training extremely hard. Knowledge is knowledge. and im always hungry.



It's unfortunate that you think I'm a jackass. It's also unfortunate that you have put too much emphasis on getting big in a very short period of time. You are 18 and have the best years of your life ahead of you. If you work hard and eat right you will achieve your goals. If you want to take a short cut and use steroids you will miss out on joy of achieving an accomplishment based on hard work and determination. You sound like a very determined individual which is to be admired. Please use that determination in a positive way and eat right, get a good workout program, gets lots of rest, and enjoy the fruits of your labor naturally.


----------



## sus250maybe (Oct 12, 2009)

jbish8 said:


> I haven't seen a 16 year old take them.......he was 18, my bro in law is now 24 and finally had to get his breasts removed through surgery after suffering for 6 years trying to figure out a less expensive way (insurance won't cover it) to get rid of them. He's now happily married........although he's been struggling to get his wife pregnant for the last year and a half.....I wonder why?
> Sure he got really strong, and big for a while, although he never got ripped, because he never learned good nutrition and workout skills. Now he's lost every bit of the gains he once had (for maybe a year), and is recovering from gyno surgery before being able to lift again. He's now asking me what I do to stay "ripped" year round, while continuing to gain lean mass and get stronger. Well it's no secret, and everyone here has already told you, it simply takes some determination, effort, and knowledge.
> So what are the chances this could happen to you, you ask? I dunno......but who cares, as long as there is a chance. My brother in law said the same crap you're saying, how he "didn't care about gyno, and could handle all the side effects", but he admits now he just really either hadn't really thought about the consequences or really didn't believe it could happen to him. After reading your responses, you sound exactly like him.
> Keep in mind, this was at a time when I would have killed to have his progress naturally. Sure your buddies might look like they're doing the right thing, but I guarantee it will catch up to them.
> ...




Im not gonna lie, this got me to think tons of times. Its been on my mind ever since i read it, but sadly, at the end of the day im still driven to do what i wanna do. I dont know what your brother in law did, and im not too sure if the same thing is gonna happen or not considering every single body is uniquely composed and reacts differently. As far as training naturally goes, its working, but not as quick as id like it to. Its more of a mental thing. When i know i have this in me, and its a once in a life opportunity, i will go for taht extra rep, i will eat that 1 extra bit of egg left in my plate just cause i dont wanna be malnutritioned. I will literally interrupt the best sex in the world to drink a protein shake. (No, that wasnt a joke at all). 

And as far as NJ surfer goes, im sorry i called you a jackass. I definitly didnt mean it. As far as this goes though, I dont really have control over myself, At this point my mind and heart are separating. My mind is telling me not to after i read that post above. But my heart is still going towards it and well, as of now, it still seems like i will. I havent started yet, nor will i probably till another 2 weeks or so but i know i will.


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 13, 2009)

so your 5'4" and 150lbs 12% bf

i think you got a good frame to work with, but you probably wouldnt want to stunt your growth at 5'4" would you

you should at least hold off till you reach your vertical maximum

sounds like you have plenty of room to build naturally too


and one more thing, if you do a cycle now, with only about a year under your belt, and expect big gains. your joins will seriously be aching by the end of it

my joints have enough trouble keeping up with my natural progress...

lets start with some basics BEFORE you start

what does your program look like
if possible give us specifics


----------



## Shadowcam (Oct 13, 2009)

I guarentee with a few adjustments to your diet and training, you could make dramatic improvements without AAS. 

The more gains you make naturally and the longer you train without AAS, the better you will respond and maintain gains recieved from AAS. 

Gains from steroids are not permenant, It is very pointless starting a cycle premature as the chances of keeping any gains are slim to none.

Post your diet and training program.


----------



## sus250maybe (Oct 13, 2009)

as much as my brain tells me to go natural, I just cant. Like theres no way i could live with being natural anymore. Oh and my vertical maximum im guessing thats another word for height?, I reached my maximum height due to fully fused growth plates.


----------



## Marat (Oct 13, 2009)

It's probably a good idea to learn to listen to your brain.


----------



## Ben dur (Oct 13, 2009)

Vertical maximum is just my way of saying your genetic potential in height. As far as not "wanting" to be natural anymore, wait till people accuse you of being on steroids, you'll hate that! I get it all natty. And there's nothing you can do or your in "roid rage"... That shit is so annoying.. 

Then later you'll here about natural body building, some of the guys are ridiculous, and all natty (where's merk at? Oh yeah not in the anabolic zone) and that will make you jealous that you can't claim that your all natty. Even though you will end up lying and saying you are all natural...

The truth is society loves bodybuilders, society wants to see freak massives and veins bursting from every limb. But simultaneously, society shuns steroid users... "roid head" "everyone on that team is on steroids"

you will never know your true genetic potential if you experiment with steroids. And your true genetic potential is probably much more extreme than you THINK it is

in my honest opinion you are making an unwise and immature decision. I urge you to reconsider


----------



## jbish8 (Oct 13, 2009)

sus250maybe said:


> Im not gonna lie, this got me to think tons of times. Its been on my mind ever since i read it, but sadly, at the end of the day im still driven to do what i wanna do. I dont know what your brother in law did, and im not too sure if the same thing is gonna happen or not considering every single body is uniquely composed and reacts differently. As far as training naturally goes, its working, but not as quick as id like it to. Its more of a mental thing. When i know i have this in me, and its a once in a life opportunity, i will go for taht extra rep, i will eat that 1 extra bit of egg left in my plate just cause i dont wanna be malnutritioned. I will literally interrupt the best sex in the world to drink a protein shake. (No, that wasnt a joke at all).
> 
> And as far as NJ surfer goes, im sorry i called you a jackass. I definitly didnt mean it. As far as this goes though, I dont really have control over myself, At this point my mind and heart are separating. My mind is telling me not to after i read that post above. But my heart is still going towards it and well, as of now, it still seems like i will. I havent started yet, nor will i probably till another 2 weeks or so but i know i will.



Ok Sus, this will be my last shot to put things in perspective for you. Honestly the only reason I'm spending time on this, is that I've seen first hand the effects of the decisions you are weighing, both the positives, and negatives, and want to make sure you go into this fully aware, so I thought I'd pull out some pics if that will help you understand. 

This first photo is of my bro in law at around 19. I couldn't find one from earlier but he was about 20 lbs lighter just one year earlier. This is after his first cycle and pct. He had no clue (just like me) about proper nutrition and workout habits however the gear allowed him some leeway and so he got pretty big and strong for his age, although notice his BF% is still too high to see abs.






This next photo is of him after his second cycle and pct just a few months later with probly another 15 to 20 lbs on him. You'll notice not all of the weight gain is lean mass due to to the lack of knowledge.





This is him now at about 25 Lbs less than the second picture and with more fat and less lean mass than ever before. This is also about a month before his surgery. Believe it or not, he has always eaten, lifted and done cardio in pretty much the same way through out the last 6-7 years and this is his honest end result for that time including 2 cycles of roids and pcts.





Now at risk of sounding like I'm bragging, I want to show you what can be done naturally and at 30 years old with much less natural test than you most likely have. 

This photo is of me at 31 (and in the worst shape I've been in). I actually decided to change after seeing myself in this photo. I had been lifting (if you could call it that) and thinking I was doing things right for the 15 years prior to this photo.





This is me now. I simply learned everything I could about proper diet and workout habits, made a goal, and didn't quit till I acheived it. Believe it or not it came much easier than I expected once I focused my efforts in the right direction.




My point is this. You should take that determination you have to jump into to steroids, and focus it into learning the right way to reach your goals, and I promise you, there will be no question about what will happen. I'm not saying steroids don't have their place (I don't do them for religious reasons), but if you don't know what you're doing in the diet and workout areas, then your really just wasting your money and possibly health in the long run. I guarantee you can get better results than what your getting now by simply employing some of the tricks and tecniques people on this very forum are willing to share. You should give yourself 2 months to prove me wrong, and put all that same stubborness you've exhibited on this thread into changing what you're doing wrong into something right. Like I said before, your gear will still be there if you still wanna do it, and at least you'll get better results from them, by gaining some knowledge on how to do things properly. Then you won't waste a perfectly good cycle. Good luck.


----------



## quark (Oct 14, 2009)

Great work jbish! What is your height & weight in that pic? That is a testament to hard work and dedication. Congratulations!


----------



## jbish8 (Oct 14, 2009)

jchappj said:


> Great work jbish! What is your height & weight in that pic? That is a testament to hard work and dedication. Congratulations!


Thanks. 
5'-9"
170 lbs.
8%


----------



## Built (Oct 14, 2009)

jbish, thank you for putting into pictures and words what absolutely needed to be said.

You look phenomenal.


----------



## jbish8 (Oct 14, 2009)

Built said:


> jbish, thank you for putting into pictures and words what absolutely needed to be said.
> 
> You look phenomenal.


Thanks Built, unfortunately it looks as though it's falling on deaf ears, but maybe it will help someone else.


----------



## DiGiTaL (Oct 14, 2009)

Lol look at this guy's diet, 320 protein and only 150 carbs. No wonder your complaining.

You need to learn training and nutrition first before stepping foot into AAS.

I love how cocky he acts that is 'ready' the 'chosen' one. BS, we get cocky little fuckers like you all the time thinking they can change the world, you need to realize we are trying to help you. 

If you trained hard for just one week, and ate really healthy and actually stayed focused you'll notice you don't need any steroids. 



Also, girls don't care how you look, incase your trying to impress anyone.


----------



## sus250maybe (Oct 14, 2009)

You might be right about the diet. but your not right about the fact that i think im the chosen one. im not trying to change the fucking world. I dont care about the world. I care about myself, and i realize you guys are trying to help me and ive mentioned it multiple times. This posts here have made me think a shitloada times especially the one with pictures above but even if i train naturally for another 2 or 3 months and realize my gains. I would still think that steroids could go farther then that. Once again its a mental thing, when i know i have it in me, i will go that extra mile just to get that extra carb in.


----------



## Built (Oct 14, 2009)

Sus250, you might be surprised at what a difference it would make to go into your cycle with a running start. We all recognize you're going to do this, so let's move on from here and get you to a position where you'll at least benefit properly from the (expensive, illegal, risky) drugs you are about to inject into your body. 

Do you remember when you first started lifting? Did you have any muscles you had a hard time connecting to? For me, it was quads and lats. Oh, and delts. Okay, and pecs lol - I'd go through the motions and nothing seemed to really fire. But I kept at it, and eventually I got to the point where my nerves and my muscles were at least occasionally chatting with each other and I started to really FEEL the muscles working, feel the pumps and the form. That's when things REALLY took off for me. 

Had I run a cycle from the beginning, it wouldn't have done shit for me. But if I had chosen to run a cycle after I nailed the lifts, totally different story.

I'm sure you remember this part, yes? (And yes, I'm on juice. I take testosterone transdermal cream for hormone replacement, and it's a tiny amount - basically about 1mg a day in my blood stream - but trust me, I feel it). My accidental HRT "cycle" has worked WONDERS for me because I was already so trained and dialled in. 

Now, how about we help you really get your training and your diet dialed in BEFORE you start, so instead of wasting your cycle while we get your routine worked out, you'll have your form and your diet down COLD, and totally NAIL your cycle? You're still doing a bit of homework about your ancillaries anyway, and we're all keen to help you do this. You'd be a fool to turn down the kind of free help you're about to get here. Seriously. I won't try to talk you out of this, you're almost nineteen, you're old enough to drink in my province and you're old enough to vote in your country, your choices are your own problem, but seriously, take this offer. 

Dammit. Where's Merkaba. Sus250, I helped him prep for a natty show and he came in second. Looked amazing. You've seen what the members here can do with less natural test than you have and with no additional assistance. Go into this with a running start, seriously, because if you feel you need a cycle at 19, it is patently obvious your training and your diet aren't up to snuff, and it's going to be so easy to get you to where it is. Do that, THEN start. 

Come on... I know you want too...


----------



## DiGiTaL (Oct 15, 2009)

Merkaba came 2nd? Wow thats very impressive of him and yourself Built. 

Is he all natural?


----------



## Built (Oct 15, 2009)

Merc's lifelong natty. He did all the work, really, I just helped him show it off.


----------



## mixologist (Oct 16, 2009)

O.K. I've read enough.. your obviosly not gonna listen and your gonna do it wrong and without advise or right with advice!!??!! 1st of all stay away from Sustanon all together! You truely do wanna keep your Plasma levels as even as possible. Next you ARE Gonna look for something such as Test. Enanthate and try to do 400mgs a week for no longer than 10 weeks, Eating 5000 to 7000 healthy calories a day. Cut it to 300mgs of Test Enth., on week 11, 200mgs at week 12, and 100mgs at week 13. After that your definately gonna wanna use your clomid regiment at your age.. O.K.? normally under no sercomstances at your age and with your workout and diet regiment nobody should be giiving you advise on AAS! Does that work for you?


----------



## sus250maybe (Oct 17, 2009)

first of all you might be right. but at this point i think your wrong as hell.  because i have done some basic research and from what i know. I should wait atleast 3 weeks once im off of test E (thats if i were to take it) to take clomid. (Test E has long esters from what i understand). 2nd of all your pyramiding down, does not make a difference to recovery AT ALL. and HCG would definitly be useful. So, i might not be a genius, and might have it ALL WRONG, but your just making it worse by giving me wrong advice. And for everyone here believe it or not, i MIGHT of decided not to take anything for a while. MIGHT.


----------



## Built (Oct 17, 2009)

Okay, everybody back off for a bit. Sus250's clearly doing some reading and he's taking it all in right now. He's got some decisions to make and he knows it, now he has better information with which to make a more informed decision, which is what he came here for in the first place.


----------



## mixologist (Oct 18, 2009)

sus250maybe said:


> first of all you might be right. but at this point i think your wrong as hell.  because i have done some basic research and from what i know. I should wait atleast 3 weeks once im off of test E (thats if i were to take it) to take clomid. (Test E has long esters from what i understand). 2nd of all your pyramiding down, does not make a difference to recovery AT ALL. and HCG would definitly be useful. So, i might not be a genius, and might have it ALL WRONG, but your just making it worse by giving me wrong advice. And for everyone here believe it or not, i MIGHT of decided not to take anything for a while. MIGHT.



The whole idea of cutting down saves you from having to wait three weeks before using your Clomid while still making somewhat small gains and lessoning your water retention. thats why to cut down slowly not cause it helps with your recovery.


----------



## Built (Oct 18, 2009)

I'm going to lock this thread for a few days while everyone cools down. If there's a need, I'll re-open it but for now, this has run its course.


----------

