# Cycle for recovering from broken leg??



## MEATYCOL (Jul 1, 2009)

Hi everyone can anyone reccomend a cycle for me I previosly weighed 210lbs and am 5 7"  i have been training for 12 yrs and only used 1test & mag 10 a couple of times a few years ago .Anyway i snapped my femur in 2 while snowboarding and and have had a pin put in my leg ,due to a few complications i ended up losing about 45lbs of mostly muscle im gutted plus i can barlley lift 2ls on the leg ext as the cut away muscle in the op.

I WAS GOING TO RUN SUST & DECA FOR TEN WEEKS AS I HEAR DECA IS GOOD FOR INJURIES AND WASTED MUSCLE AND THE SUST SHOULD KEEP MY TEST UP BUT I AM A NEWBIE TO THIS SIDE OF TRAINING AND WOULD APPRECIATE ANY SUGGESTIONS TO HELP ME GET BACK TO WHERE I WAS

THANKS A MILL

COL


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## VictorZ06 (Jul 1, 2009)

If a clean diet doesn't work, Test E, deca, and HGH sound like a good recipe, IMHO.  I would work with a personal trainer to make sure you don't mess anything up.  Both the deca and HGH will help with your injuries.  Good luck.

/V


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## Pirate! (Jul 1, 2009)

MEATYCOL said:


> can barlley lift 2ls on the leg ext as the cut away muscle in the op.



It may not be wise to do a cycle. Sounds like you still need rehabilitation.


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## Built (Jul 1, 2009)

There is clinical research to support the use of nandrolone to enhance tissue remodelling: http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/32/4/934.abstract

This sounds like a very good idea to me. I wish this was something that was part of standard clinical practice for injury rehabilitation. 

My .02 on this fine Canada Day.


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## juggernaut (Jul 1, 2009)

Tissue remodeling? Never heard of that. Could it work on a knee with a lesser degree of synovial fluid in the left knee?


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## Built (Jul 1, 2009)

Dunno. Nandrolone is known for making your joints feel good.


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## Shadowcam (Jul 1, 2009)

I would not recommend using anabolics while you are still in rehab.

 Training needs to be hard and heavy aiming to increase strength while on a cycle to get the benefits from AAS which your not in a position to do.

I would wait untill your fully recovered before you do a cycle otherwise you may do some damage. Not a good idea to rush things when recovering from an injury like yours.


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## Built (Jul 2, 2009)

Why not use it to rehab the injury? Surely it will heal more quickly.


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## MEATYCOL (Jul 2, 2009)

*back  to training*

Thanks for all your advice guys it is much appreciated its a month to the day since my accident and I am back in the gym, i can walk a bit better now and my leg is now weight bearing just real weak.
I can still train hard and heavy so would be confident that i could get good gains from the aas the only thing i cant do are squats or deadlift (I know normally staples!).
 I was hoping that the deca might help recuperate the muscles in my leg  a bit quicker 
i would still get gains of it from using what i used to consider a light weight as the muscles are now so weak that the light weight would cause the same amount of microtrauma to the fibres as a heavier one would have before my accident thus stimulating growth no???

thanks again for all your advice this is the first time i have ever used a forum and you guys rock 
Col


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## nkira (Jul 2, 2009)

<following along>


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## nkira (Jul 2, 2009)

There are many clinical researches which show that Nandrolone does help in faster healing of bones & muscle tissue,

Anabolic Steroids Blog - iSteroids . com » steroid nandrolone decoanate 

Muscular Development Online Magazine - In Praise of Nandrolone

The Effect of Nandrolone Decanoate on Bone Mineral Density, Muscle Mass, and Hemoglobin Levels in Elderly Women With Osteoporosis: A Double-Blind, Randomized, Placebo-Controlled Clinical Trial -- Frisoli et al. 60 (5): 648 -- Journals of Gerontology 

Nandrolone :: pharmacology

BiomedExperts: Effects of nandrolone decanoate therapy on bone mass and calcium metabolism in women with established post-menopausal osteoporosis: a double-blind placebo-controlled study.

Laurabolin (nandrolone laurate) - Anabolic Steroid

Steroid's were ACTUALLY developed for their pharmaceutical value.


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## nkira (Jul 2, 2009)

Nandrolone, it seems does help with synovial fluid,

Joint Matrix Protocols - Rehabilitating Soft Tissue and Joints with Growth Hormone, Nandrolone, Glucosamine, and Chondroitin (Chemical Muscle #12)

Print This Article : Deca Durabolin (nandrolone decanoate) steroid for sport

I tried pubmed, no luck. 



juggernaut said:


> Tissue remodeling? Never heard of that. Could it work on a knee with a lesser degree of synovial fluid in the left knee?


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## juggernaut (Jul 2, 2009)

nice job nk


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## nkira (Jul 2, 2009)

From our own forum,



dg806 said:


> Deca will cause you to hold water and some bloat is to be expected. It is well known for being able to help sore/dry joint because it lubricates the joints. It stores a lot of water (as synovial fluid) in the joints, which eases the impact of the heavy weights.


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## nkira (Jul 2, 2009)

"The problem is that when you come off it you lose the synovial effect and your joints become "dry" and quite irritated/inflamed. "

Quoted from, Equipoise - Page 2 - AbsoluteBodybuilding.com - Bodybuilding Canada * Nutritional Supplements Canada * Powerlifting Canada *


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## VictorZ06 (Jul 2, 2009)

In Europe, I know deca is prescribed to old ladies who fell and broke their hip.  I've also seen it prescribed to burn victims.  And as far as HGH goes, that will speed up recovery time.  Buddy of mine tore his RC, doc gave him 6-8 months to recover.  Come month 4, he was at 100%.  Good luck.

/V


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## nkira (Jul 2, 2009)

Yes it does,

Effects of protein-rich supplementation and nandro...[Clin Nutr. 2007] - PubMed Result

While the body will do this naturally based on exercise and food consumption, steroids send the process into overdrive, thus faster healing too.


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## VictorZ06 (Jul 2, 2009)

nkira said:


> Yes it does,
> 
> Effects of protein-rich supplementation and nandro...[Clin Nutr. 2007] - PubMed Result
> 
> While the body will do this naturally based on exercise and food consumption, steroids send the process into overdrive, thus faster healing too.



Good read.  Whenever I would tell people that deca helps older women with broken/fractured hips, they wave the BS flag at me.  This one is going in my archive for references.  Thanks!

/V


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## Mudge (Jul 2, 2009)

Vitamin C helps recovery as well (its used all over the body for repairs).


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## Shadowcam (Jul 4, 2009)

Built said:


> Why not use it to rehab the injury? Surely it will heal more quickly.



I think common sense is a better option to rehab a injury! not steroids.


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## Built (Jul 4, 2009)

Um, hang on here. 

Nobody's suggesting blowing off rehab. 

Kindly re-read my post.


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## Shadowcam (Jul 4, 2009)

If you want a anti inflammatary use naprosin. That will not shut you down like Deca.


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## Shadowcam (Jul 4, 2009)

MEATYCOL said:


> Thanks for all your advice guys it is much appreciated its a month to the day since my accident and I am back in the gym, i can walk a bit better now and my leg is now weight bearing just real weak.
> I can still train hard and heavy so would be confident that i could get good gains from the aas the only thing i cant do are squats or deadlift (I know normally staples!).
> I was hoping that the deca might help recuperate the muscles in my leg  a bit quicker
> *i would still get gains of it from using what i used to consider a light weight as the muscles are now so weak that the light weight would cause the same amount of microtrauma to the fibres as a heavier one would have before my accident thus stimulating growth no*???
> ...



Of course! but that can be done without enhancers and it would be safer to let your body heal and rebuild at a natural steady pace.

From what I understand you are at a level of muscle mass that you have already exceeded previously so you can very easily regain your previous size naturally so there is no need for enhancers at this point in time.

Deca does have a anti inflammitary effect on the joints and is great when on a cycle when the stress on the joints have increased due to lifting heavier weights than the body can handle naturally. Problem is when you come off, it has the opposite effect therefore makes the body more vunrable to injury.

I would only ever advise using enhancers to get past what can be achieved naturally otherwise the body has a hard time keeping gains recieved from AAS and promotes chance of catobolism and injuries. Better off climbing the hill at a steady pace than running up then tumbling back down.


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## nkira (Jul 5, 2009)

Yes, but that won't help with healing either....he's not looking to mask the pain he is looking for something that will aid recovery.


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## Shadowcam (Jul 5, 2009)

Never said anything about masking the pain. What won't help healing???? taking things slowly at a natural pace.

 Its worked wonders for me when Ive had injuries and Im certain thats what any doctor would recommend also.


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## nkira (Jul 5, 2009)

Actually I was writing the reply but in between you posted by quoting MEATYCOL,

MEATYCOL specifically asked about riod that's why we went ahead with suggesting riod's.......if he would have asked about pain & inflammation then we would have discussed along those line.....


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## Shadowcam (Jul 5, 2009)

That makes no sense!

Just because somebody asks a question about a specific substance for a particular purpose, it does not mean that that substance is the best option and evrything else should be disregarded.

Thats like somebody asking for advise on using Dbol for a cutting cycle when getting ready for a contest. Should we advice the best way to use Dbol for cutting or should we advice to use winstrol or Var as a better option.

The point I was trying to make was, if somebody needs a anti inflammatary during rehabilitation then why not take a drug like naprozin rather than a steroid that can only be taken in a limited period and will require a PCT.


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## Built (Jul 5, 2009)

Because NSAIDs carry a host of side effects and do nothing to help heal the underlying condition - in fact, they do the opposite: NSAIDs interfere with bone remodeling during the healing process:
<link>
"Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs continue to be prescribed as analgesics for patients with healing fractures even though these drugs diminish bone formation, healing, and remodeling. Inhibition of bone formation can be clinically useful in preventing heterotopic ossification in selected clinical situations. In this regard, naproxen may be more efficacious than the traditional indomethacin, and short-term administration is as effective as long-term. When fracture healing or spine fusion is desired, nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs should be avoided."

Nandrolone aids in tissue remodelling while it reduces inflammation. In short, it not only masks pain, but promotes muscle and bone growth - important considerations while healing an injury. I wish my husband had been given nandrolone when he was healing a leg fracture five years ago. It would have healed faster, and his leg might not have wasted while he was healing.  Nandrolone can work to improve the outcome of physiotherapy - so you get back to your regularly-scheduled life more quickly. 

<shrugs>

Seems like a no-brainer to me.


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## nkira (Jul 5, 2009)

COX-2 selective NSAID decreases bone ingrowth in v...[J Orthop Res. 2002] - PubMed Result

*Naproxen specific study.*

"Naproxen sodium in the drinking water and oral Rofecoxib decreased bone ingrowth significantly (15.9 +/- 3.3%. p = 0.031 and 18.5 +/- 2+/-4%, p = 0.035 compared to drinking water respectively). Both Naproxen sodium (p = 0.026) and Rofecoxib (p = 0.02) decreased the number of CD51 positive osteoclast-like cells per section compared with drinking water alone. Rofecoxib decreased the area of osteoblasts per section area (p = 0.014) compared to controls, although the value for Naproxen sodium did not reach statistical significance. The results of the present study suggest that bone formation is suppressed by oral administration of an NSAID which contains a COX-2 inhibitor. COX-2 inhibitors currently taken for arthritis and other conditions may potentially delay fracture healing and bone ingrowth."

Naproxen & other NSAID's works by inhibiting both the COX-1 and COX-2 enzymes thus interfering with bone healing.


<Hugs Pubmed>


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## juggernaut (Jul 5, 2009)

hmmm interesting. I love my NSAIDS too!


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## nkira (Jul 5, 2009)

Which one's are you taking?


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## VictorZ06 (Jul 5, 2009)

Very good info guys!!

/V


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## juggernaut (Jul 5, 2009)

Aleve, NK, but only when I do squats a few hours later.


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## juggernaut (Jul 5, 2009)

as needed which isnt much.


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## Shadowcam (Jul 5, 2009)

Unfortunatly research links do not always tell the truth. I bet I can find another artical that contradicts everything in those links.

Better of speaking from experience, much more reliable option in my opinion. I have suffered a torn pec, torn rotator cuff, inflammed shoulder bursitis(both sides), elbow tendonitis and a broken collar bone and arm.

 I have experimented with many drugs and used Naprosyn frequently during rehabilitation which helped restricting inflamation and pain. I never made claims that it enhances bone remodeling or whatever in anyway. 

I dont think taking AAS is the best option from EXPERIENCE, not from what I have read somewhere. Although some AAS may speed recovery due to faster muscle growth and additional fluid retention while on a cycle IF the rest of the rehabilitation process is done correctly, the problem is when AAS use is stopped and the body is reducing its anabolic state, loosing fluid and fighting to hold on to muscle aswell as healing a injury, the body is now very vunurable.

In my opinion from experience is to let the body heal at its own pace it its own natural anabolic status with plenty of rehabilitation.


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## Shadowcam (Jul 5, 2009)

Built said:


> Because NSAIDs carry a host of side effects and do nothing to help heal the underlying condition - in fact, they do the opposite: NSAIDs interfere with bone remodeling during the healing process:
> <link>
> "Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs continue to be prescribed as analgesics for patients with healing fractures even though these drugs diminish bone formation, healing, and remodeling. Inhibition of bone formation can be clinically useful in preventing heterotopic ossification in selected clinical situations. In this regard, naproxen may be more efficacious than the traditional indomethacin, and short-term administration is as effective as long-term. When fracture healing or spine fusion is desired, nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs should be avoided."
> 
> ...



Thinking steroids are the answer for everything is a no-brainer.


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## Built (Jul 5, 2009)

You must not know me very well if you think that about me.


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## Built (Jul 5, 2009)

Shadowcam said:


> Unfortunatly research links do not always tell the truth. I bet I can find another artical that contradicts everything in those links.



Cool. I'll wait for you to produce them. 



Shadowcam said:


> In my opinion from experience is to let the body heal at its own pace it its own natural anabolic status with plenty of rehabilitation.



Then why take NSAIDS? They have been demonstrated to slow down the process of healing broken bone. 

Hardly seems like a responsible approach to rehabbing an injury.


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## Shadowcam (Jul 5, 2009)

Built said:


> Cool. I'll wait for you to produce them.
> 
> *Theres no point! That was my point.*
> 
> ...



I said use them or another anti-inflamatary (there are many) IF an anti-inflamatary is required rather than a anabolic that puts the body in a false sense of sercurity and shuts down natural hormone production.

Using anabolics hardly seems like a responsible approach to rehabbing an injury to me.

What are your experiences using drugs during rehabilitation??


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## nkira (Jul 5, 2009)

I don't think he knows you.



Built said:


> You must not know me very well if you think that about me.



So, you mean to say every one's body is just like your's? (Considering YOUR experience!)

Also if MEATYCOL decided to take roids the dose requires would be far-less than the one required for muscle building goal(Read the title of the thread!)...thus lesser sides & short low dosed PCT.

To shut down body's natural production the dosage required are much higher...we discussing therapeutical dosage only......the goal here is to AID HEALING.

Post some links, references to backup what ever you are saying...




Shadowcam said:


> Unfortunatly research links do not always tell the truth. I bet I can find another artical that contradicts everything in those links.
> 
> *Better of speaking from experience, much more reliable option in my opinion.* I have suffered a torn pec, torn rotator cuff, inflammed shoulder bursitis(both sides), elbow tendonitis and a broken collar bone and arm.
> 
> ...


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## Built (Jul 6, 2009)

Well, I've broken two arms, a collarbone and a foot. I have a herniated disc and osteoarthritis. I have a grade I anterolisthesis at C5-S1, a rotator cuff impingement and a torn acetabular labrum in my right hip (and possibly another in my left). Believe me when I say I've had my share of injuries. And I've been careful to avoid NSAIDs whenever possible because of their adverse effect on healing. 

The drugs I've been offered to control pain for my herniated cervical disc and associated bone and neuropathic pain in my neck and left arm include the NSAIDs Celebrex and Arthrotec (diclofenac/misoprostol), the GABA analogue Gabapentin, the tricyclic antidepressants and Amitriptyline and Imipramine, the narcotic morphine, and the anabolic steroid Nandrolone.

I have prescriptions for all of them, but there have been problems. 

Celebrex - I might as well have swallowed smarties - Celebrex did NOTHING for my pain. Arthrotec, well, it worked a bit but the stomach pain was almost unbearable - and this in spite of the misoprostol. I referred to taking it as "time to take my burning glass shards" because that's what it felt like I had swallowed whenever I took it. Gabapentin and the tricyclic antidepressants promised to make me - and I quote my physician on this one - "loopy". No thanks. I'm on ADHD meds as it is. No point making things WORSE - and besides, I'm not depressed - I'm just injured. Morphine is helpful, but all I do on it is sleep. 

Nandrolone is less androgenic than the extremely low dose of transdermal testosterone I already take for HRT, and as I mentioned, has been demonstrated to reduce inflammation and bone pain, and to enhance tissue remodelling and bone healing. This isn't random tissue being laid down - it actually helps your body lay down tissue in the correct organizational matrix to support proper tissue-healing, exactly the opposite of what NSAIDs will do under this paradigm. 

Of the drugs I have been offered, only nandrolone is currently unavailable in my country. It is a legal, approved drug in Canada, and I have a scrip for it, but I have so far been unable to find a Canadian pharmacy that stocks it since Organon (which used to be in Quebec) was purchased by Schering-Plough a few years ago. I called them, and was told the supplier in Pakistan was unreliable so they discontinued the line; they got tired of waiting up to a year for back-ordered Deca-Durabolin to ship. 

Nandrolone can help protect against breast cancer, and is a known blood-builder. Its metabolites are present in a woman's body when she is pregnant - how's that safety profile for you? It is widely used in Europe for little old ladies with similar bone conditions, in the same dosing (50mg every three weeks) and still, no dice. Seems there are a few bodybuilders using it for physique-enhancing purposes, and I rather suspect that has made it difficult for people to obtain these therapeutics for use as indicated on the product monographs. 

There are others who are unable to obtain these therapeutics - HIV/AIDS wasting, for example, responds beautifully to this life-saving medication. In Canada, neither nandrolone nor the much more expensive oxandrolone is available except through special access, which is a NIGHTMARE and almost no doctors are willing to jump through the required hoops in order to obtain it. 

My own doctor suggested I go outside the country and fly in with three months' supply at a time - a practice which is legal in Canada for any approved medication for personal use. That's what my endocrinologist told me, and that's what the Justice website tells me. I checked. 

I don't know why you have a bee in your bonnet about AAS for injury rehab, Shadowcam. Used responsibly, these are extremely beneficial substances that have been demonstrated to improve treatment outcomes for injury-rehab, broken bones and muscle wasting.

This cannot be said for any NSAID, narcotic or tricyclic antidepressant I've encountered.


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## Shadowcam (Jul 6, 2009)

nkira said:


> I don't think he knows you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*So your saying the thread starter was only considering anabolics for healing an injury and not to build muscle mass. I suggest your read the first post.*


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## Built (Jul 6, 2009)

What's wrong with building muscle mass as he rehabs? He had a chunk taken off his leg when he broke his femur.


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## Shadowcam (Jul 6, 2009)

Built said:


> Well, I've broken two arms, a collarbone and a foot. I have a herniated disc and osteoarthritis. I have a grade I anterolisthesis at C5-S1, a rotator cuff impingement and a torn acetabular labrum in my right hip (and possibly another in my left). Believe me when I say I've had my share of injuries. And I've been careful to avoid NSAIDs whenever possible because of their adverse effect on healing.
> 
> The drugs I've been offered to control pain for my herniated cervical disc and associated bone and neuropathic pain in my neck and left arm include the NSAIDs Celebrex and Arthrotec (diclofenac/misoprostol), the GABA analogue Gabapentin, the tricyclic antidepressants and Amitriptyline and Imipramine, the narcotic morphine, and the anabolic steroid Nandrolone.
> 
> ...



The problem is it is not very often used responsibly, especially by bodybuilders.

 I understand that AAS are prescribed for certain injuries and many other medical conditions but where bodybuilders are concerned the dosages are nothing like what a doctor would prescribe.


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## Built (Jul 6, 2009)

Of course not. My physician would only prescribe masking agents - nothing that had the potential to heal the problem. 

I had to see an endocrinologist at the University of British Columbia to get a scrip for the elusive nandrolone. I argued that it might help, and in his expert opinion, he agreed. 

The OP has lost a great deal of muscle - 45 lbs - and had muscle cut away from his thigh during surgery. I cannot for the life of me see why the cycle he is suggesting is a bad idea in his case.

Shadowcam, what have been your experiences with AAS?


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## Shadowcam (Jul 6, 2009)

Built said:


> What's wrong with building muscle mass as he rehabs? He had a chunk taken off his leg when he broke his femur.



Nothing at all! thats what he should be doing. 

nkira said we were only discussing therapeutical dosages that will not shut down natural hormone production.


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## Built (Jul 6, 2009)

Okay, so based on your complete lack of personal experience with AAS, and your clear dislike for their therapeutic and or physique-enhancing properties, you feel the OP should NOT take AAS and instead use drugs that interfere with the natural healing process while he rehabs a bone-break that could have killed him and continues to experience muscle-wasting. 

Just so we're clear.


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## Shadowcam (Jul 6, 2009)

Built said:


> Of course not. My physician would only prescribe masking agents - nothing that had the potential to heal the problem.
> 
> I had to see an endocrinologist at the University of British Columbia to get a scrip for the elusive nandrolone. I argued that it might help, and in his expert opinion, he agreed.
> 
> ...


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## nkira (Jul 6, 2009)

So, Gaining muscle mass while healing an injury.....hmmm....sound's like perq to me!

He has lost considerable muscle mass, 45lbs.....






Shadowcam said:


> *So your saying the thread starter was only considering anabolics for healing an injury and not to build muscle mass. I suggest your read the first post.*


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## Shadowcam (Jul 6, 2009)

Built said:


> Okay, so based on your complete lack of personal experience with AAS, and your clear dislike for their therapeutic and or physique-enhancing properties, you feel the OP should NOT take AAS and instead use drugs that interfere with the natural healing process while he rehabs a bone-break that could have* killed him* and continues to experience muscle-wasting.
> 
> Just so we're clear.



Yes you are right! I have never used AAS and I am totally against AAS for any purpose even for somebody who almost lost his life by breaking his leg. 

I love to get told by a over dramatic 58kg little lady!


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## nkira (Jul 6, 2009)

Here's something interesting,

"Nine patients who had been treated with 50 mg nandrolone decanoate every three weeks *did not lose bone from the radius or the metacarpals during the 2 yrs following withdrawal of therapy.*"

Bone mineral content, cortical thickness and fract...[Maturitas. 1986] - PubMed Result


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## Built (Jul 6, 2009)

nkira said:


> Here's something interesting,
> 
> "Nine patients who had been treated with 50 mg nandrolone decanoate every three weeks *did not lose bone from the radius or the metacarpals during the 2 yrs following withdrawal of therapy.*"
> 
> Bone mineral content, cortical thickness and fract...[Maturitas. 1986] - PubMed Result



Oooh, good to know, thanks!



Shadowcam said:


> Yes you are right! I have never used AAS and I am totally against AAS for any purpose even for somebody who almost lost his life by breaking his leg.
> 
> I love to get told by a over dramatic 58kg little lady!


I misunderstood your earlier post, obviously. I read it as you saying you had no experience with AAS. You clarified, so I'll get on with the discussion.

Okay, so because you're a man and I'm tiny and female, being "told" by me is particularly irksome?

That just makes it SO MUCH BETTER!

Now, when you re-injured yourself, were you doing rehab on these drugs, or were you trying to push around the heavy stuff like you did when you were uninjured? The reason I ask is because the OP isn't in any position to throw around the heavy stuff, and he knows it. 

You sound like you did not. 

(The little woman will now tippy-toe off to bed for her beauty-sleep. Try to be nice while I'm asleep...)


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## Shadowcam (Jul 6, 2009)

Built said:


> Oooh, good to know, thanks!
> 
> 
> I misunderstood your earlier post, obviously. I read it as you saying you had no experience with AAS. You clarified, so I'll get on with the discussion.
> ...



I was doing rehab in both instances. I never attempted to lift the same poundages as before the injuries as I had lost alot of muscle mass although I was on a progressive resistance training program to regain strength and muscle mass but I began with a very light weight.

 The first time I chose to run a cycle during rehab I re-tore a tendon six weeks into the cycle. Reason being the muscle grew at such a rapid rate due to "lost muscle rebound and AAS" the tendon gave way. This may not have happened if I had let the muscles rebuild at a natural level rather than try to speed the process up with anabolics.

I also tried running a cycle while in rehabilitation after I broke my arm. I completed the cycle with no problems and recovery was going great untill the drugs started to leave the body and the anti-inflamitary and anabolic effect was reversed I recieved excrushiating pain and inflamation and was forced to cease training for almost two months.

I always compete once or twice a year so obviously I wanted the injuries to heal as soon as possible and the dosages I took were obviously higher than what a doctor would prescribe.

If used responsibly at a low dosage, the rehab process is not rushed and extra care is taken when AAS are ceased when recovery levels are diminishing then Im sure it will aid the rehab process. But that is very unlikely if the subject is a bodybuilder and I believe not including AAS in the rehab process and let the injury heal at a natural consistant pace is a safer option.

Just my 2 many cents!


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## nkira (Jul 6, 2009)

I meant therapeutical.....Just correcting my typo.



nkira said:


> Steroid's were ACTUALLY developed for their *pharmaceutical* value.





Shadowcam said:


> I also tried running a cycle while in rehabilitation after I broke my arm. I completed the cycle with no problems and recovery was going great untill the drugs started to leave the body and the anti-inflamitary and *anabolic effect* was reversed I recieved excrushiating pain and inflamation and was forced to cease training for almost two months.




Shadowcam, Your personal experience with injuries while running the cycle are interesting....No offence.

In IMHO diet is crucial in PCT phase, focus on keeping what you gained from your cycle.

Make sure your protein intake and caloric intake has been adjusted upwards based upon how much you gained.

If you're dieting severely, then chronic cortisol can become an issue when it comes to muscle preservation.

Also, you didnt outline your PCT, some suggest using cortisol blocker(7-OH-Diacetate) as the purpose there is two fold - maintaining your gains and also fat reduction.

Considering that you compete twice a year I assume that you already know this stuff...

Well that's my 2 cents..

Hope that helps.


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## Perdido (Jul 6, 2009)

Built said:


> Well, I've broken two arms, a collarbone and a foot. I have a herniated disc and osteoarthritis. I have a grade I anterolisthesis at C5-S1, a rotator cuff impingement and a torn acetabular labrum in my right hip (and possibly another in my left). Believe me when I say I've had my share of injuries.



Dam you need to look both way before crossing traffic


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## Built (Jul 6, 2009)

rahaas, I know I know... LMAO I'm telling you, I'm clumsy. I was on a first-name basis with ER when I was a kid. They probably thought my parents were throwing me down flights of stairs I was in there so often!

Shadowcam, it sounds to me like you rushed your training because you were anxious to compete - in the first instance, you were trying to rehab a ruptured tendon? DAMN, that's a serious injury. Tendons take forever to heal. In the second, you were trying to speed the healing of a broken bone. My feeling is that you blew the opportunity to allow AAS to assist in the rehab of your injuries by pushing your actual training too fast - it's an important warning to anyone running AAS to assist in healing injuries and I'm glad you brought it up. 

That being said, you'll heal better and faster on then off. I'd hate to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 - The little woman's .02 CDN.


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## juggernaut (Jul 6, 2009)

Damn, MA-didnt think that of you being clumsy-assed.


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## Built (Jul 6, 2009)

I have ADHD. It's part of the spectrum.


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## nkira (Jul 6, 2009)

Look, sparkly things! Let's go fly kites!.....


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## Built (Jul 6, 2009)

LMAO! Nkira knows me well!


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## Perdido (Jul 6, 2009)

Geez I feel so whimpy with only a few tiny scars to brag about from when I was a kid!!!


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## juggernaut (Jul 6, 2009)

Built said:


> Well, I've broken two arms, a collarbone and a foot. I have a herniated disc and osteoarthritis. I have a grade I anterolisthesis at C5-S1, a rotator cuff impingement and a torn acetabular labrum in my right hip (and possibly another in my left). Believe me when I say I've had my share of injuries.


WTF??? Built did you ever try jumping Snake Canyon in a rocket????


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## Built (Jul 6, 2009)

rahaas said:


> Geez I feel so whimpy with only a few tiny scars to brag about from when I was a kid!!!


Hey, a scar is a scar, and you know what they say about scars - they're tattoos with better stories!




juggernaut said:


> WTF??? Built did you ever try jumping Snake Canyon in a rocket????




Oooh, no, not yet, but what a great idea!!!


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## juggernaut (Jul 6, 2009)

you are one twisted chick.


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## nkira (Jul 6, 2009)

So you figure out a close friend is one twisted chick.

It took you that long to figure it out?


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## Built (Jul 6, 2009)

My analyst told me
That I was right out of my head
The way he described it
He said I'd be better dead than alive
I didn't listen to his jive
I knew all along
That he was all wrong
And I knew that he thought
I was crazy but I'm not
Oh no

My analyst told me
That I was right out of my head
He said I'd need treatment
But I'm not that easily led
He said I was the type
That was most inclined
When out of his sight
To be out of my mind
And he thought I was nuts
No more ifs or ands or buts

They say as a child
I appeared a little bit wild
With all my crazy ideas
But I knew what was happening
I knew I was a genius...
What's so strange when you know
That you're a wizard at three
I knew that this was meant to be

Now I heard little children
Were supposed to sleep tight
That's why I GOT INTO THE VODKA ONE NIGHT
My parents got frantic
Didn't know what to do
But I saw some crazy scenes
Before I came to
Now do you think I was crazy
I may have been only three
But I was swinging

They all LAUGHED AT ANGRY YOUNG MEN
They all laughed at Edison
And also at Einstein
So why should I feel sorry
If they just couldn't understand
The idiomatic logic
That went on in my head
I had a brain
It was insane
Oh they used to laugh at me
When I refused to ride
On all those double decker buses
All because there was no driver on the top

My analyst told me
That I was right out of my head
But I said dear doctor
I think that it's you instead
Because I have got a thing
That's unique and new
To prove it I'll have
The last laugh on you
'Cause instead of one head
I got two
And you know two heads are better than one.

- Lyrics by Annie Ross, score by Wardell Gray, popularized by none other than Joni Mitchell, guest appearance by Cheech & Chong


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## nkira (Jul 7, 2009)

Now I know why you like Joni Mitchell's music ...

Btw name of the song is "Twisted".....for anyone who cares to hear the song.

Song: "Twisted" Artist: Joni Mitchell Album: Court & Spark Year: 1974






YouTube Video


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## juggernaut (Jul 7, 2009)

eh, rather listen to old school metallica or linkin park.


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## nkira (Jul 7, 2009)

I was just listening to "Faint" by LP.....


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## juggernaut (Jul 7, 2009)

good stuff


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## MEATYCOL (Jul 13, 2009)

ok thanks for all the advice i am going to run a course of deca with sust and hgh as i have spoken to my surgeon and told him what i was planning to do at his consult and while he couldnt obviously advocate me self medicating with steroids he said "i wouldnt advise against it as long as you know what your doing" so i will leave it till week 8 and see how we go from there.  I will post my results and keep everyone up to speed.Thank you for your advice everyone


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## VictorZ06 (Jul 13, 2009)

How long/much are you running the HGH?

/V


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