# weight lose/ creatine



## hello there (Nov 28, 2007)

Hello, 
I recently ran out of creatine over Thanksgiving week and was to lazy to go out and get some. My wife said I looked more muscular so I weighed myself. In 1 week I lost 5 pounds and all the muscle stayed the same, I measerd to make sure. Is this a normal thing because now I hate to start again because I like the way I look since the 5 pounds are gone.    Thanks


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## evanps (Nov 28, 2007)

Ever hear of osmotic balance? It's a term used to describe the tendency of solutions (specifically those in the body) to balance their level of dilution (ratio of solvent to solute; water to nutrients/molecules in the body). When you take in creatine the portion not excreted is stored in your muscle, this decreases the ratio of fluid:molecules in your muscle cells and iinterstitial fluids(stuff around and not inside the muscle cells). Because of this when your blood passses through the veins and arteries in your muscle, water is leeched from it because of the change in osmotic pressure related to the extra creatine there. When the creatine levels drop less water is needed in the muscle to balance osmotic pressure and it is returned to the blood stream and excreted. 
Anyway, all that means is that you pissed away a good portion of the water weight you were carrying, hence the change in body weight and clearer muscle tone. A little extra water is not necessarily a big problem and if you want to lose it in the future you already know how to do it.


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## hello there (Nov 28, 2007)

Thanks, but doesnt that mean that creatine basically makes you retain water?


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## borat (Nov 28, 2007)

Creatine is a waste of money. All  is does is fill your muscles with water to make you look bigger. I dont know why anyone would bloat themselves on purpose like that.


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## Witchblade (Nov 28, 2007)

You lost water weight, not fat or muscle. 

If you like the way you look now, don't change it(?)


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## borat (Nov 28, 2007)

Thats exactly what I was saying. Drink creatine and carry around 5 pounds of water. Why does everybody think this crap works? You gain water not mucle


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## Witchblade (Nov 28, 2007)

It works (for most). I'm just saying he shouldn't take it if he doesn't like the 'bloated' look.


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## borat (Nov 28, 2007)

I totally agree with you,  Im just saying why do people take it just to look bloated? It just makes you look bigger, you would be better off spending the money on a steak.


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## Pound for Pound (Nov 28, 2007)

There's more to creatine than just adding water weight.


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## borat (Nov 28, 2007)

Trust me I would love to hear from anyone that got more out of it than water, not trying to be a dick here but it doesnt do anything. Ask any real doctor what it does. Thats why you have to drinnk so much water when you take it.


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## hello there (Nov 28, 2007)

Thanks for the help. Its not that I didnt like taking it. I was just surprised that I lost so much without it. It did seam to help me workout harder. i didnt seem to get tired as fast.


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## Mista (Nov 28, 2007)

borat said:


> Trust me I would love to hear from anyone that got more out of it than water, not trying to be a dick here but it doesnt do anything. Ask any real doctor what it does. Thats why you have to drinnk so much water when you take it.



I tried a creatine multiplier and loved it. Workouts lasted longer, strength went up and I recovered quicker. I tried CEE and didn't really get anything out of it. I ordered mono yesterday to try.


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## hello there (Nov 28, 2007)

I was taking mono, I cant remember the brand though.


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## Mista (Nov 28, 2007)

When you started taking it, did you notice anything besides appearance?


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## hello there (Nov 28, 2007)

My muscles didnt get tired as fast so I could lift more. It seemed to give me more energy, I took it just before I worked out and after.


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## borat (Nov 28, 2007)

OK let me guess you took it with grape juice right? Thats what helped you. Welches is alot cheaper and no 5 pounds of water.


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## hello there (Nov 28, 2007)

Yep it was grape juice.


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## evanps (Nov 28, 2007)

Well the fact of the matter is your liver actually produces creatine ( I'm not positive but maybe in amounts around 2grams/day) it's stored in your muscle and your muscles are pretty effecient at phosphorylating ADP on it's own. Thirdly you will consume creatine in varying amounts in all the meat you eat. A large part of the bulking related to creatine use is water retention, I know there are others who will argue me to the death but it's true. All you can do is decide for yourself, everyone is going to tell you something different so do some research be objective and weigh each side before you make a decision.


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## borat (Nov 28, 2007)

EXACTLY!! 100% correct. Creatine is just hype to waste your money on.


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## Matt Taylor (Nov 28, 2007)

I am hearing both sides to the creatine subject. And like most supplements, Creatine may or may not work for you. You just have to try it and see what changes it causes in your body and how you feel...

Right?


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## evanps (Nov 28, 2007)

Matt Taylor said:


> I am hearing both sides to the creatine subject. And like most supplements, Creatine may or may not work for you. You just have to try it and see what changes it causes in your body and how you feel...
> 
> Right?



I try to be as objective as I can but the science behind it really doesn't look good for creatine. Unless you're a very active high endurance athlete or possibly quite old you're basically putting a phosphate molecule where there's already plenty of it. For a vast majority of people using creatine the gains are water retention. But it's like you said, if it makes you feel better about yourself and your workout (also know as "placebo effect") then it's up to you to decide whether you want to throw the money out there.


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## Mista (Nov 28, 2007)

borat said:


> EXACTLY!! 100% correct. Creatine is just hype to waste your money on.



Have you tried it before?


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## Mista (Nov 28, 2007)

This creatine saturation effect provides several known benefits:
1. By increasing muscle creatine stores, you provide an effective ATP buffer for prolonged muscle energy production. This allows you to train at maximum muscular output for longer periods of time. In other words, you can lift heavier weights for more reps. This increase in muscular overload leads to faster and greater lean muscle gains
2. Increasing muscle creatine stores has a muscle cell "hyper-hydration" effect. This "hyper-hydration" effect is the result of increased creatine stores allowing more intracellular fluid into the muscle. This has a swelling effect on the muscle making it bigger and fuller.

Muscles typically are comprised of about 70% water. The "hyper-hydration" aspect of creatine may allow the muscle cell to hold 73% to 75% water effectively, making the muscle bigger in a rather short period of time. (Some individuals have reported 10 to 15 pound weight increases in as little as two weeks.)

Increasing muscle cell hydration leads to benefits in leverage for increased strength and possible reduction in lifting injuries.It is also believed that increasing muscle cell hydration may lead to greater protein accrual - solid lean muscle gains. 

creatine monohydrate, muscle build, big muscle, micronized creatine, creatine phosphate

That was just from a quick google, there is plenty of info on this site also.


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## evanps (Nov 28, 2007)

Yes, it would be ignorant of me to rant about something I hadn't had some experience with. I can't say that I experienced any difference other than the water retention we've discussed.


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## Mista (Nov 28, 2007)

I was asking borat but thanks for the reply.


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## evanps (Nov 28, 2007)

Mista said:


> I was asking borat but thanks for the reply.



My bad lol!


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## Smoo_lord (Nov 28, 2007)

When I started taking creatine the first time, which was about 3 years ago I put on 5Kg within a fortnight. I must admit that I did see some strength gains across the board and my muscles felt bigger, but i was at a fairly high BF% so I looked more chunky. It was just creatine mono. When I stopped taking it, I lost some strength, and a lot of weight (water) but I feel that I had made more gains in strenght during this period that I maintained. To me, I thought that it was a useful, cheap supplement that doesn't need cycling.

Best thing to do really is to go and buy some, It is probably the cheapest supp, apart from a multi-vitamin. Take it, and then decide for yourself if the benefits are worthwile versus the negatives.

also a lot of 'pre workout' things like no-xplode and other NO products contain creatine in it, so if you are taking any of these then you are already consuming enough.


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## borat (Nov 30, 2007)

Mista said:


> Have you tried it before?



I replied to this the other day but I think it got lost while the site was down, so here it is again.
Yes I have tried creatine. I took it for 3 years. I actually thought it worked. Luckily I was stuck on a plane with a bodybuilder and he explained in great detail that it was a waste of money and didnt really do anything. I tried working out without it and the energy that I thought I got from it was just the grape juice I took it with. I asked a few doctors at work and they all said the same thing, your body already produces it and any extra that you take will only bloat you and could possibly damage your liver. I really dont believe most supplements work. I cant remember who said it but 'eat big, lift big to get big' is really all that works, other than steriods of course. Look at all the guys before the must have cant live without product of the day came out. They all did fine without it. All I take now is a multi vitamine, protien shakes when I cant get to real food and eat better. I have gotton more out of that than I did for years of buying crap. There is no magic pill, just hard work.


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## Pr0blemChild21 (Nov 30, 2007)

if you cycle creatine properly it will work in all forms. especially if your using healthy creatine (arginine).  only flaw is that it might do damage to your kidneys in the long run. but who gives a shit for now. the attitude is your young so nothing can stop you.


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## nni (Nov 30, 2007)

there is a lot of bad info in this thread, so i decided to address two.



borat said:


> EXACTLY!! 100% correct. Creatine is just hype to waste your money on.



you are 100% wrong. creatine is THE most tested and approved ergogenic aid legal today. please show me any study that disproves creatines effectiveness towards lean body mass. you need to do a lot more research.



Pr0blemChild21 said:


> if you cycle creatine properly it will work in all forms. especially if your using healthy creatine (arginine).  only flaw is that it might do damage to your kidneys in the long run. but who gives a shit for now. the attitude is your young so nothing can stop you.



creatine does not need to be cycled. arginine is not a creatine, it is arginine, which is a nitric oxide precursor which has nothing to do with creatine. argining products do need to be cycled. long term studies have shown creatine to have no negative impact on your kidneys.


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## borat (Nov 30, 2007)

Ok show me a study that says its good, a study by someone not selling it. Everybody that does a study and says its great is a saleman. Try asking a doctor.


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## nni (Nov 30, 2007)

borat said:


> Ok show me a study that says its good, a study by someone not selling it. Everybody that does a study and says its great is a saleman. Try asking a doctor.



studies are done my doctors and scientists, not supplement companies. if it is to be published it has to pass a peer review board, proving there is no bias and the study was done correctly.

and tell me, what supplement training does a medical doctor get? absolutely none. it is up to a doctor to take the time to learn about supplements, and why would they, it is not their job. very few are properly educated and take the stance just dont take them. yet they will readily prescribe medications with serious side effects.

i will not post one study for you. there are litterally hundreds, if you are so biased that you are putting your head in the sand, then so be it, i think will brink a few days ago made a thread about the latest creatine study. seriously go read, dont rely on bodybuilders who rely on AAS or doctors who dont care about supplements. rely on the unbiased studies that are released.

companies can SPONSOR a study, usually through a university, but do you honestly think that university would risk ruining its reputation by lying? this would ruin any future studies they would do and negate their medical departments legitimacy.

seriously research. you are way off base here.


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## borat (Nov 30, 2007)

'studies are done my doctors and scientists, not supplement companies'

OK they are done by doctors

'and tell me, what supplement training does a medical doctor get? absolutely none. it is up to a doctor to take the time to learn about supplements, and why would they, it is not their job. very few are properly educated and take the stance just dont take them. yet they will readily prescribe medications with serious side effects.'

Are these the same doctors that you are saying do the studies?

'dont rely on bodybuilders who rely on AAS or doctors who dont care about supplements. rely on the unbiased studies that are released.'

Dont rely on bodybuilder? or doctors? Ok the ones you say did your study? And why not rely on someone who uses it ,like a bodybuilder, should I rely on a company salesmen?

'companies can SPONSOR a study, usually through a university, but do you honestly think that university would risk ruining its reputation by lying? this would ruin any future studies they would do and negate their medical departments legitimacy.'

Yes, you get what you pay for, remember the studies on cigeretts? When they claimed they were not bad for?

Your not making much sense here , and I couldnt help but notice your with a suplement co.


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## borat (Nov 30, 2007)

Sorry about the above, I couldnt get the quote thing to work.


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## nni (Nov 30, 2007)

borat said:


> OK they are done by doctors
> Are these the same doctors that you are saying do the studies?
> Dont rely on bodybuilder? or doctors? Ok the ones you say did your study? And why not rely on someone who uses it ,like a bodybuilder, should I rely on a company salesmen?
> Yes, you get what you pay for, remember the studies on cigeretts? When they claimed they were not bad for?
> Your not making much sense here , and I couldnt help but notice your with a suplement co.



you are still lost. do you think everybody who is called a doctor is the same one that you go see when you are sick? medical doctors treat patients, they are not the same as scientists and phd and doctors that conduct research. your internal medicine doctor doesnt go on weekends and conduct trial studies at the local univeristy, he isnt qualified for that.

if you want to rely on a pro bodybuilder be my guess, but before he gives you any advice, ask him how much of his mass can be attributed to AAS usage. how long and how many cycles has he used?
so you are comparing today to 30+ years ago? that is quite an argument on your case.
yes i am with a supplement company, and notice i am not trying to sell you anything but information.

here is the bottom line, you are 100% wrong. there is so much scientific data saying this, that if you spent the time formulating your poor arguments against me to researching about creatine, then you might no be so vocal.

honestly, i am just trying to help, i dont care what you take and what you decide to do with your own body, i just dont want uninformed people spouting off and spreading misinformation.

now once again, i implore you, go read. read journals, read pubmed, hell read will brinks thread on this board, just read.


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## nni (Nov 30, 2007)

i felt bad for you, so here is the brink thread i alluded to...

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/supplements/84674-issn-position-paper-creatine.html

The ISSN is a well respected organization.


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## Will Brink (Dec 1, 2007)

borat said:


> Ok show me a study that says its good, a study by someone not selling it. Everybody that does a study and says its great is a saleman. Try asking a doctor.



A study? How about dozens, many of which can be found in my report on the topic at:

The Creatine Report - Fact, Effects, Side Effects, Benefits, Information and more....

Creatine has all manner of medical and health benefits, in addition to it's effects in the gym. I can supply as many studies as you want, but I put most of them in that report which will cover most of the medical and health  uses of creatine as well as the anabolic effects, safety, etc,


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## Will Brink (Dec 1, 2007)

nni said:


> i felt bad for you, so here is the brink thread i alluded to...
> 
> http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/supplements/84674-issn-position-paper-creatine.html
> 
> The ISSN is a well respected organization.



Doh, forgot I put that up. Good catch, thanx.


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## borat (Dec 1, 2007)

OK, I read all the reports. I gotta tell you Im not convinced. But anyway, I would love to be wrong here. If I can drink some wonder dust and get further ahead Id be real happy, so Im going out today and getting me a big ass container and trying it again. I havent taken the stuff for a few years so Im sure I will be able to notice a difference. I will let you know. But if it doesnt work Either way though , thanks for the info.


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## hello there (Dec 1, 2007)

Borat you better have a bigger club Will look's pretty big. I started taking it again. The 5 pounds came back really quick but it did seem to help the recovery time a little. Thank's to everybody for the help.


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## Will Brink (Dec 1, 2007)

borat said:


> OK, I read all the reports. I gotta tell you Im not convinced.



Then you didn't really read the report (at least mine anyway) or the studies you asked for (of which those are only a fraction of what exists) were not convincing for you. As I have had that report looked over by some of the top researchers involved, and I have given it to all manner of docs who had contacted me for more info on creatine, I am confident of it???s accuracy. Good luck with your use of creatine. Hope it works as well for you as it does for most people, but approx 30% are "non responders" to creatine.


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## Will Brink (Dec 1, 2007)

hello there said:


> Borat you better have a bigger club Will look's pretty big.



Well you know what they say, never bring a club to a gun fight!


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## borat (Dec 1, 2007)

Thanks I will keep that in mind


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## Arnold (Dec 2, 2007)

borat said:


> Creatine is a waste of money. All  is does is fill your muscles with water to make you look bigger. I dont know why anyone would bloat themselves on purpose like that.



are you kidding? creatine is the most scientifically proven supplement in the world, last I remember around 400 scientific studies on it. 

before posting such an ignorant statement you really should do some research first bro.


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