# Epistane with cycle support



## KEFE (Nov 27, 2008)

Ok I am thinking of doing an epistane cycle next year and I was wonderign would I need Nolva or clomid for pct or if I could just use what is in this stack?

Epistane/Cycle Support/Post Cycle Support Stack By: IBE


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## soxmuscle (Nov 27, 2008)

You're 15, dumbass.


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## KEFE (Nov 27, 2008)

BTW I will be doing this for lean gains and to minimize my gyno.My diet will be in check and I will eat clean foods and only drink water and milk.Also what would be best? 20/30/30/40?


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## KEFE (Nov 27, 2008)

soxmuscle said:


> You're 15, dumbass.



I know I'm 15.


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## KEFE (Nov 27, 2008)

What if I pulse cycle taking 20mg before and after lifting 3 times a week


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## KEFE (Nov 27, 2008)

EPISTANE   would do the last chart on there


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## KEFE (Nov 27, 2008)

I have read that if you pulse then you dont need pct but would it help if i used 6-0X0 after pulsing?


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## Mista (Nov 27, 2008)

Warnings: Consult a physician before taking this product particularly if you are taking prescription medication. *Not for persons under the age of 18*. Women who are pregnant or nursing should not use this product, if you have or have had a family history of heart disease, thyroid disease, diabetes or high blood pressure or if you are using monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOI)Individuals sensitive to sulpher should use precaution before taking this product. This product contains sulpher. Exceeping the recommended dosage may cause adverse health effects. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN.

Bodybuilding.com - Innovative Body Enhancement Epistane - Dry Gains! On sale now!


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## Mista (Nov 27, 2008)

KEFE said:


> I know I'm 15.


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## KEFE (Nov 27, 2008)

Mista said:


> Warnings: Consult a physician before taking this product particularly if you are taking prescription medication. *Not for persons under the age of 18*. Women who are pregnant or nursing should not use this product, if you have or have had a family history of heart disease, thyroid disease, diabetes or high blood pressure or if you are using monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOI)Individuals sensitive to sulpher should use precaution before taking this product. This product contains sulpher. Exceeping the recommended dosage may cause adverse health effects. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN.
> 
> Bodybuilding.com - Innovative Body Enhancement Epistane - Dry Gains! On sale now!



I know that. I am fully aware of what the label says and I know that epistane is a designer steroid. I am either using epistane and then 6-oxo or just 6-oxo by itself or epi by its self. Epistane is supposed to be less harsh than most legal stuff and if I pulse cycle it will minimize shutdown and side effects.


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## angel77 (Nov 28, 2008)

*Don't do it.......*

This could inflict permanent damage to your body if you take steroids at your age. I would seriously reconsider. If your stubborn and not properly educated and you insist on doing it anyway *YOU DO *need Nolva. 20/20/10/10. I do not condone this at all man. Read into the sides for someone your age taking this stuff. You look plenty big for your age anyway. You have years of naturally building before you'll need this for gains.
Just lookin' out for ya man.


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## MCx2 (Nov 28, 2008)

Don't be fucking stupid KEFE...


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## workingatit43 (Nov 28, 2008)

You are way to young for one. Second mistake is your posting a link to a site that is not a board sponsor. Discount bodybuilding supplements from BSN and other leading brands on sbmuscle.com is the supp web store here. Stay away from the steriods or you will be sorry before your 18th birthday


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## Hench (Nov 28, 2008)

Why do you feel the need? Do you actually think that you will have hit your natural peak by then?


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## KEFE (Nov 28, 2008)

I'm doing it mainly for the gyno


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## KEFE (Nov 28, 2008)

Its not like I'm stacking a few PH's together and stuff. I am taking one of the least harmful ones and its not like im doing SD.


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## Arnold (Nov 28, 2008)

it's not a good idea to mess with your hormones at the age of 15, it can have long term and irreversible side effects.


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## KEFE (Nov 28, 2008)

I understand that it would not be a good idea to mess with hormones but i would still like to do a cycle of epistane


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## ZECH (Nov 29, 2008)

Kefe, you have way too much going for you to mess with steroids at your age. You have started a great foundation and you can continue to work on it and when you get old enough to safely take them, you will have an awesome physique if you keep training the way you should. If you take them now, you are going to mess all that up. Please don't chance that. There are other ways you can deal with any gyno. And to me it doesn't look bad.


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## KEFE (Nov 29, 2008)

Ok well maybe i will reconsider things. What is the best nat test booster/ estrogen lowering product that I can get from SB?


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## KEFE (Nov 29, 2008)

BTW SBmuscle website is acting superslow man


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## Arnold (Nov 29, 2008)

its normal for a teen going through puberty to experience mild gyno, from what I see in your pics its not bad and you should not worry about it.

keep training hard and smart, stay on a good diet, use whey protein and creatine, you will grow!


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## KEFE (Nov 29, 2008)

I would like to know the best one in each of these categories that you guys carry at SB:

Creatine
Test booster
Fat burner
Multi
ZMA
Anti-est


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## Arnold (Nov 29, 2008)

the only supp you need that you listed is creatine.


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## KEFE (Nov 29, 2008)

Prince said:


> the only supp you need that you listed is creatine.



Man creatine willl barely get me anywhere. I have too much estrogen which is why i have gyno now. Estrogen isn't good for muscle building. I need ZMA for better sleep. Fat burner because they have not only fat burning ingredients but energy too.Multi for general well being and everyday function


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## bio-chem (Nov 29, 2008)

KEFE said:


> Man creatine willl barely get me anywhere. I have too much estrogen which is why i have gyno now. Estrogen isn't good for muscle building. I need ZMA for better sleep. Fat burner because they have not only fat burning ingredients but energy too.Multi for general well being and everyday function



have you read any of these replies to you? c'mon dude. like prince said gyno at your age is not uncommon. at your age your natural test levels are sky high which means you are also going to have some higher estrogen levels as well. don't worry about it. you have good size and deffinition for your age. leave it be. are you competing any time soon in any event that your mild case of gyno will interfere with? no? then spend more time taking pictures of yourself while constipated so mino has material to work with


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## hyperlite32 (Nov 29, 2008)

dg806 said:


> Kefe, you have way too much going for you to mess with steroids at your age. You have started a great foundation and you can continue to work on it and when you get old enough to safely take them, you will have an awesome physique if you keep training the way you should. If you take them now, you are going to mess all that up. Please don't chance that. There are other ways you can deal with any gyno. And to me it doesn't look bad.





YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## KEFE (Nov 29, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> have you read any of these replies to you? c'mon dude. like prince said gyno at your age is not uncommon. at your age your natural test levels are sky high which means you are also going to have some higher estrogen levels as well. don't worry about it. you have good size and deffinition for your age. leave it be. are you competing any time soon in any event that your mild case of gyno will interfere with? no? then spend more time taking pictures of yourself while constipated so mino has material to work with



not everyone is going to have high testosterone just because they are a teen. I know gyno is not uncommon .


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## Arnold (Nov 29, 2008)

KEFE said:


> not everyone is going to have high testosterone just because they are a teen. I know gyno is not uncommon .



you're correct, but the fact that you do have gyno at 15 would lead me to believe you do have high test levels.


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## KEFE (Nov 29, 2008)

Well anyway SBmucle really needs to do somethnig abotu their site because i can barely shop on it


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 29, 2008)

KEFE, smarten up, you are going to impart permanent damage to yourself messing with that stuff.  You don't need supplements you little freak, keep training hard like you are and you will continue to see results, you are pretty jacked as it is.


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## KEFE (Nov 29, 2008)

Dale Mabry said:


> KEFE, smarten up, you are going to impart permanent damage to yourself messing with that stuff.  You don't need supplements you little freak, keep training hard like you are and you will continue to see results, you are pretty jacked as it is.



I know man but the last time I used a supplement other than the expired maximum pump from rob was in feb and since then i have been trainign with no supplements and i need some type of boost in the gym


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## danzik17 (Nov 29, 2008)

So let me get this straight.  You have plenty of cash when it comes to buying supplements and steroids that you have no business using, but are very strapped for cash when it comes to replacing your weight bench.

Get your priorities straight.


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## bio-chem (Nov 29, 2008)

KEFE said:


> not everyone is going to have high testosterone just because they are a teen. I know gyno is not uncommon .



why do you think you have gyno? you have high estrogen because of the high testosterone in your body right now. if it wasn't for the high test you wouldn't have a similarly high estrogen because the ratio of the two stays in relative proportion due to the conversion. I had gyno at your age. it goes away. like prince said with yours. it's not bad. 

i think you are starting to develop a complex kid. that may be the one draw back to you working out so hard and knowing what you do about the bodybuilding scene. In an adult bodybuilder it makes them work harder because they are never happy with where they are at and gives them the drive to work harder. thats good until it starts interfering with other parts of their lives.


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## KEFE (Nov 29, 2008)

I don't have the cash to buy stuff right now. I am just preparing for Christmas. MY dad spent like 160$ and replaced the broken bench. I have my priorities is place. Only time i ever will be able to get supplements is for christmas. I have nothing else to do with christmas money so why not spend it on supplements. I am nto one of the kids who takes 8 million diff supplements . Like i said the last thing i took was something that was given to me. I need energy to get in the gym. I am only drinking water so I get absolutely no caffeine at all. I don't want some bullshit creatine because that wont help me. Creatine is overrated IMO. I will forget the PH's and designer steroids if you guys will provide me with a good stack of supplements with an energy product.


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## KEFE (Nov 29, 2008)

What if I get a good multi and then just buy Animal m stak and animal stak?


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 29, 2008)

What do you eat?


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## KEFE (Nov 29, 2008)

Right now I am eating a lot cleaner than i did at 160. I am 145 right now but almost the same size as i was at 160. I am not eating shit anymore like i did in the summer. In the summer i was eating shit. Now i don't eat pizza or any sweets and drink water. I try to eat a lot of meat.


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## bio-chem (Nov 29, 2008)

KEFE said:


> Right now I am eating a lot cleaner than i did at 160. I am 145 right now but almost the same size as i was at 160. I am not eating shit anymore like i did in the summer. In the summer i was eating shit. Now i don't eat pizza or any sweets and drink water. I try to eat a lot of meat.



damn dude, you need to remember that it is ok to still be a kid


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## KEFE (Nov 29, 2008)

Soda is for boys, real men drink water.


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## Arnold (Nov 29, 2008)

KEFE said:


> I have nothing else to do with christmas money so why not spend it on supplements.



that is fine, spend it on:


whey protein
multi-vitamin
EFA's
creatine


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## KEFE (Nov 29, 2008)

IF i were to buy one of each product from IronMag labs, how much woudl it cost me?this is not including the protein powder


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## KEFE (Nov 29, 2008)

Scratch that statement. What all does Anabolic Matrix have and is it just a test booster and nto a ph? I see it has dhea in it. How could the dhea effect me?


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## bio-chem (Nov 29, 2008)

KEFE said:


> Soda is for boys, real men drink water.



are you really that prideful about drinking water?


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## KEFE (Nov 29, 2008)

I am thinking of using anabolic matrix because it sounds like what i need right now.


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## danzik17 (Nov 29, 2008)

No, what you need right now is steak and eggs, lift, sleep.  That is all.  You don't need any serious supplements for at least another 5 years.  Stick to whey, EFAs, and creatine (see a pattern developing?)


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## KEFE (Nov 29, 2008)

danzik17 said:


> No, what you need right now is steak and eggs, lift, sleep.  That is all.  You don't need any serious supplements for at least another 5 years.  Stick to whey, EFAs, and creatine (see a pattern developing?)



creatine is bullshit and I ahve been using food for 3 years. Last year almost i have used nothing but food. creatine is bullshit. I need something to give me more energy and more test


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## ZECH (Nov 29, 2008)

Kefe, are you training too much?? That could be your problem with lack of energy. Train 3-4 days per week and give your body time to rest and grow. You grow while you rest. Don't over do it as it will tax your cns. Be smart.


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## KEFE (Nov 30, 2008)

I don't train too much.Usually have only been training once or twice a week and thats on weekends.


Could you guys suggest a Creatine, multi and maybe an energy  product for me from SB muscle that has good reviews?


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## Arnold (Nov 30, 2008)

KEFE said:


> creatine is bullshit and I ahve been using food for 3 years. Last year almost i have used nothing but food. creatine is bullshit.


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## ZECH (Nov 30, 2008)

Anabolic Innovations has a new product called Essentials. It has everything you need-Basics. SBM does not have it listed yet but should soon. I will check to see how long it will be.

Essentials + Joint Complex (648 g) By: Anabolic Innovations


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## KEFE (Nov 30, 2008)

dg806 said:


> Anabolic Innovations has a new product called Essentials. It has everything you need-Basics. SBM does not have it listed yet but should soon. I will check to see how long it will be.
> 
> Essentials + Joint Complex (648 g) By: Anabolic Innovations



Do you have a ingredient list for it?


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## Arnold (Nov 30, 2008)

*Supplement Facts*

Serving Size: 10.8 g
Servings per Container: 60

Amount Per Serving 	% Daily Value

BCAA's
	7000 mg 	**
   Leucine - 1750 mg 	  	 
   Isoeucine - 3500 mg 	  	 
   Valine - 1750 mg 	  	 
Micronized Creatine Monohydrate 	5000 mg 	**
Beta-Alanine 	4000 mg 	**

Flexability Support
Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM), Bromelain, CetylMyristoleate (CMO 20%), 
Turmeric Extract  (Curcumin) Turmeric Root P.E. 95%   Hyaluronic Acid, Naringin, Bioperine 	2500 mg 	**

Joint Support

Glucosamine Sulfate, Chondroitin, Bromelain
	2100 mg 	**
Multi Vit. Mineral Complex Amount 	  	 
   Beta Carotene (as pro-Vitamin A 6 mg) 	10000 IU 	200%
   Vitamin C (as Ascorbic Acid) 	500 mg 	833%
   Vitamin D (as Ergocalociferol) 	400 IU 	100%
   Vitamin E (from d-alpha Tocopheryl) 	200 IU 	670%
   Vitamin K (as Phytonadione) 	50 mcg 	60%
   Thiamine (Vitamin B-1)(from Thiamine HCI) 	30  mg 	2000%
   Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2) 	30 mg 	1765%
   Niacin (Vitamin B-3) (from Niacinamide) 	50 mg 	250%
   Vitamin B-6 (from Pynidoxine HCI) 	30 mg 	1500%
   Folic Acid 	400 mcg 	100%
   Vitamin B-12 (as Cyanocobalamin) 	50 mg 	833%
   Biotin 	300 mcg 	100%
   Pantothenic Acid (Vitamin B-5) 	100 mg 	1000%
   Calcium (from Calcium Carbonate) 	350 mg 	35%
   Iodine (from Kelp) 	225 mcg 	150%
   Magnesium (from Magnesium Oxide) 	100 mg 	1000%
   Zinc (from Zinc Cheleate) 	30 mg 	200%
   Selenium (from Selenium Chelate) 	200 mcg 	290%
   Copper (from Copper Chelate) 	500 mg 	25%
   Manganese (from Manganese Sulfate) 	3 mg 	150%
   Chromium (from Chromium Chelate) 	25 mg 	21%
   Molybedunum (from Molybedunum Chelate) 	50 mg 	70%
   Potassium (from Potassium Chloride) 	50 mg 	1%
   Boron (from Boron Chelate) 	500 mcg 	**
Digestion Complex 	  	 
   Bromelain 	10 mg 	**
   Papain 	10 mg 	**
   Pepsin 	10 mg 	**
   Pancreatin 	10 mg 	**



* Percent Daily Values are based on a 2000 calorie diet.
** Percent Daily Values not established.

OTHER INGREDIENTS:  Natural and artificial flavors,natural and artificial colors,  malic acid, acesulfame potassium, sucralose


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## Witchblade (Dec 1, 2008)

The only supplements that significantly improve your fitness improvements are anabolic steroids. The rest is crap, AFAIK. Don't think you'll find any miracle products, because they don't exist. Creatine is the thing that comes closest, but it doesn't work for everyone (non-responders, like you, apparently). Fish oil and multi-vitamin/mineral complexes are great for overall health, but won't do much for your size or strength. 

Bottom line, steroids are the only supplements that work, but they come with a price. Considering you know jack shit about doing a proper cycle and that you are a minor, this price may very well be devastating.


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## ironbull (Dec 1, 2008)

Prince said:


> *Supplement Facts*
> 
> Serving Size: 10.8 g
> Servings per Container: 60
> ...



 everything i need in 1 bottle gemme more info!! i want some


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## Arnold (Dec 1, 2008)

Witchblade said:


> Creatine is the thing that comes closest, but it doesn't work for everyone (non-responders, like you, apparently).



true, CEE usually works well for "creatine non-responders" though.


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## KEFE (Dec 1, 2008)

I need a energy supplement so i can make it through the whole school day. I have energy except for the last 1 hour and 30 minutes of school im so drained and tired.


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## ZECH (Dec 2, 2008)

How much sleep do you get? You need at least 8 hrs!!!
And anything you do take will be temporary, and when it wears off, you will more than likely feel worse.


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## Berto (Dec 2, 2008)

Can't believe I'm reading this thread either.

You want a free, cheap, and NATURAL testosterone booster?  Stop whacking it for a week.  Seriously.  I know you're 15 and all, but if you can handle this, it works.

I am too new to post links, but once I have 10 posts I'll link you up to the studies.

FWIW, if you can't grow facial hair, then you have no business altering your hormones yet... and I'm not seeing too much scruff on your pics.  Sorry guy.


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