# Losing fat at low BF%



## SZ03 (Nov 7, 2003)

Ok guys here is the deal. Just this morning I had my BF% and RMR tested.

My RMR is at 2679 kcal/24 hr and my BF% was tested with DEXA at 7.9%. The Breakdown was like this: Arms 5%, Legs 7.2%, and trunk (chest and belly) at 9.1%. 

Obviously I am holding more fat at the stomach area, which I expected.

I am 6'0 around 200-203 pounds.

I would like to get  down to a nice 6% or so. How do I go about it? I know at relatively lower BF% it gets trickier since I can lose a lot of lean mass along with the fat.

I did order some ab-solved to see if it can help me get rid of some extra belly fat.

How much should i decrease my dialy caloric deficit and how much should i burn through exercise? I was at about 15% and i lost bodyfat through exercise alone and kept my calories around 2,800 calories.

Should i keep doing that? Does anyone with more experience than me (at dieting at lower BF%) have some advice to offer on how much of caloric deficit I should try to create everey day (how slow I need to take it) and how much should come from exercise and/or cutting calories. 

I do take EC before lifting for the extra boost (3 times a week for the last 2 months or so)


Thanks for the help


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

you cannot spot reduce!!!!


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## SZ03 (Nov 7, 2003)

I am a believer of that but for 20 bucks a bottle it was worth a shot. Started using it today. Do you have a general guidline as to what I need to do with my caloric deficit?


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## Pepper (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> you cannot spot reduce!!!!



Absolved works, Babsie.


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## nikegurl (Nov 7, 2003)

yep - we've heard and learned forever that "you can't spot reduce" but it seems like it's time to update our thinking.  people are seeing major results with avant's topicals - lipoderm and absolved.  i've used neither but based on the experience of gopro, leslie, jodi and many others as well as the science behind it - i'm a believer.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

I'd like to see a study done on that.

Preferrably done on a person that has HONESTLY dieted & trained for quite some time and still has problems losing the fat around the abdominal area.  Till this person is at the point where lipo suction is needed as a final resort!

It's just like stretch marks.  Prove the fact that a lotion can remove your stretchmarks and cosmetic surgery does not need to be done.

I'm sorry.  I'm not trying to put TP & his products down.  I'm just saying it's hard to believe.

I have been training, dieting and practising cardio and I have yet to discover a "gel or lotion" that will spot reduce around any trouble areas.

Just like cutting gel  --  I believe that's false advertisement.  The maker claims to spot reduce, etc.........Paid $110 for cutting gel and the only thing it did was REDUCE the APPEARANCE.

Someone give me a bottle of ab-solve and if it works, I'll forever where a shirt that says:  I'M A BELIEVER OF SPOT REDUCING, PROVEN BY AVANT LABS! 

Sorry you guys.  This is just my opinion.


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## nikegurl (Nov 7, 2003)

i hear ya.  took me awhile to come around.  but we're talking about experienced competitors who monitor their diets and training very closely.  so if they had a stubborn area where fat was stored that was measurably changed by using the product - and nothing else was altered....then i believe.  there are a bunch of good threads i can link.


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

Absolved & LipoY works great for me and many others.  Apparantely you never read the feedback columns.


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## Pepper (Nov 7, 2003)

...Absolved worked wonderfully on my wife. I would say it worked for me too, but I did not do the measurements to prove it.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> i hear ya.  took me awhile to come around.  but we're talking about experienced competitors who monitor their diets and training very closely.  so if they had a stubborn area where fat was stored that was measurably changed by using the product - and nothing else was altered....then i believe.  there are a bunch of good threads i can link.




I read Jodi's when she started trying it and she quoted that it was working for her.  IMO, I feel it should be used as a last resort.  With that being said, nothing against Jodi BUT, that was her first competition.  Starting out, I thought her abdominal area looked great.  Not competition great but good in general.  It was flat and she had an overal great appearance to that specific area in the begining.

Call me old fashion.  Just got burned on $110 bucks for cutting gel and it didn't work for me.  I won't spend anymore money on spot reducers.

Anyone (I'm talking who wasn't and is NOT preparing for a competition) have any before and after pics?

For me I believe it wouldn't work.  Only because my plastic surgeon has stated that no amount of exercise or further change in my diet will remove the fat I have around my navel.  The only way it will go away is with Lipo.  Now, that's a guarantee!


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## nikegurl (Nov 7, 2003)

or if you buy from avant's website you get their guarantee - return it for money back if you don't like it.  (just a thought)

i know leslie has measurements posted in this thread:

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21448&highlight=absolved

i've heard a lot of bad feedback on the cutting gel by the way.


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## Pepper (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> Only because my plastic surgeon has stated that no amount of exercise or further change in my diet will remove the fat I have around my navel.  The only way it will go away is with Lipo.



Wow! Why would he say something like that?


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Pepper *_
> Wow! Why would he say something like that?




   maybe it's true.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> or if you buy from avant's website you get their guarantee - return it for money back if you don't like it.  (just a thought)
> 
> i know leslie has measurements posted in this thread:
> ...



I know about the money back by avant.  I just don't feel right doing sending things back.

I'll check out Leslies.

I will NEVER recommend cutting gel to anyone.  It's too expensive of a product to use and not have work for you or atleast do what it says it does.

Thanks NG


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## nikegurl (Nov 7, 2003)

or maybe b/c he makes his living operating?  (my point being - don't give up yet!)

like i said - i've never used the lipoderm ultra or the absolved but i probably will eventually.  it's unusual to see so many people agreeing that something works well especially when it goes against all the old school stuff we've been taught about it being impossible to spot reduce.


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> With that being said, nothing against Jodi BUT, that was her first competition.



What does that have to do with anything?



> Starting out, I thought her abdominal area looked great.  Not competition great but good in general.  It was flat and she had an overal great appearance to that specific area in the begining.!


Quite the opposite actually.  Remember BB is alot of illusion.  I hold ALL my bodyfat in my abs.  I do have small hips but my stomach is my biggest problem.  The day I competed my waist was still 27"  Its a 28.5" right now and I started ab-solved again


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

What are the ingredients in those two products by avant?

I'll take that information and present it to my plastic surgeon and see what he says.  BTW  --  this plastic surgeon is my friend and has been for some time, I doubt he'd fib to me.

I hear what you're saying NG  --  Some of the hardest things to remove from our mind is what has been driven/pounded in for so many years.


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## derekisdman (Nov 7, 2003)

For the most part I agree with Babsie girl here, but I haven't tried the product so I can't say from experience.  Please don't start yelling at me for this but I just think sometimes if someone really wants something to work then they'll tell themselves that it does regardless.


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## Leslie (Nov 7, 2003)

Absolved and Lipo do not by any means perform miracles. Obviously lipo will suck all ab fat out. But most people do not have the money and/or are not willing to take the risk.

While its true you cannot spot reduce- you can "assist" or "prompt" areas that never seem to burn fat to do so. This is called fat mobilizing. Its not a magic cream as you have to be in a calric deficit in order for it to work.There are plenty of scientific write ups over at Avant, which obviously you have not read. There are reasons why women and men store fat where they do. And I do not have the time or energy ( I am sick) to go in to detail here.

Bottomline is both products have worked for me. First competition I lost alot of weight without it. Only my leg/ass measurements didnt go down much til the final 2 weeks of cutting. I get emaciated on top before ewven losing an ounce bottomwise. This year with Avant lipoderm- my measurements went down simultaneously and evenly. Coincidence, I think not. 

I will say since I was at Avants booth and mod there- I am a bit biased, but results are results.

I agree there are many scams out there in the supplement indsutry, but to put a product down that you didnt try, moreso have not read a word on what it is, is simply ignorant.

The ingredients of the products are at Avants site. You know www.avantlabs.com

Also, I have know Jodi for along time now and can tell you her ab area has always been a problem for her. Bitch has good legs though But she lost more ab fat with absolved then ever before and she has been cutting forever.


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

> I will say since I was at Avants booth and mod there- I am a bit biased, but results are results.



Yes and I used the Absolved LONG before I ever became a moderator as well. 



> The ingredients of the products are at Avants site. You know www.avantlabs.com



Great feedback listed as well 



> Also, I have know Jodi for along time now and can tell you her ab area has always been a problem for her. Bitch has good legs though But she lost more ab fat with absolved then ever before and she has been cutting forever.



Damn Straight 

I still don't understand what losing ab fat and my FIRST competition have to do with each other..............


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> What does that have to do with anything?
> 
> 
> ...


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## ZECH (Nov 7, 2003)

I have to agree with absolved and lipoderm y. Both products are cutting edge technology. I have read hundreds of other testimonials on other boards and just ask people like 1fast how much of this stuff he sells. People buy it for a reason, it works. Lipoderm works better in woman on thighs and hips and absolved works better on abdominal fat in men. I bet your plastic surgeon has never even heard of these. And it does work best for people under 10% bf. If you are above that, nothing but a good diet will help.


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## ZECH (Nov 7, 2003)

Cutting gel is nothing close to this and cutting gel is a rip-off.


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

2.5 weeks and I lost my first inch.




> I read Jodi's when she started trying it and she quoted that it was working for her. IMO, I feel it should be used as a last resort. With that being said, nothing against Jodi BUT, that was her first competition. Starting out, I thought her abdominal area looked great. Not competition great but good in general. It was flat and she had an overal great appearance to that specific area in the begining.



And still............what does it matter if it was my FIRST competition and why the No Offense??  This still doesn't make sense and has absolutely nothing to do with each other.


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## ZECH (Nov 7, 2003)

BTW, you don't loose fat when you dehydrate.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Leslie *_
> I agree there are many scams out there in the supplement indsutry, but to put a product down that you didnt try, moreso have not read a word on what it is, is simply ignorant.



Get it straight please.  I WAS NOT PUTTING AVANT PRODUCTS DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!  My comments were general comments.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> BTW, you don't loose fat when you dehydrate.



no but your appearance is thinner.  which is what I was saying...when you diet down you lose weight and fat.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> I have to agree with absolved and lipoderm y. Both products are cutting edge technology. I have read hundreds of other testimonials on other boards and just ask people like 1fast how much of this stuff he sells. People buy it for a reason, it works. Lipoderm works better in woman on thighs and hips and absolved works better on abdominal fat in men. I bet your plastic surgeon has never even heard of these. And it does work best for people under 10% bf. If you are above that, nothing but a good diet will help.




I wasn't knocking on Avant or those products.

The reasons why I asked for the ingredients were so I can ask him question in regards to what it does to the skin and how cuts into your fat cells.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Cutting gel is nothing close to this and cutting gel is a rip-off.




I agree


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> 2.5 weeks and I lost my first inch.
> 
> 
> ...




Because when competitors start to cut, their diets are not the average diets.  No Normal person would cut their calories that low.  Are your calories (right now) based off your competition diet 6 weeks out and continually descreasing?


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

This is what I'm talking about. All it takes is for ONE PERSON to make A GENERAL COMMENT THAT   D O E S sit well with another persons theory, they automatically start flipping their tops.

Chill out....if you don't like or agree with what I have to say about my thoughts or experiences...sorry......voice your opinion and let it speak for itself.


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

My calories were not low and I never dropped calories AT ALL during the entire diet except for the last 7 days.  Read my competition journal before making assumptions please

AND I'm doing the same diet now that I was during competition.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> My calories were not low.  Read my competition journal before making assumptions please.



Define low?

I'm not making assumptions.  I'm stating a fact!

tell me...did you or did you not lower your caloric intake from the start to the end of your competition?


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

No I did not drop cals from beginning til end.  Not until the last 7 days

High Carb Days 2000-2200
Low Carb Days 1500-1700
No Carb Days 1000-1100


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> My calories were not low and I never dropped calories AT ALL during the entire diet except for the last 7 days.
> 
> AND I'm doing the same diet now that I was during competition.





Every competitor I've talked to lowers their caloric intake by 100 each week starting at 6 weeks out.  Even the pros with which I talk to at my gym.

If you can continue to drop bf with keeping your caloric intake constantly at 1600 (just a guess i.e.: throwing a number out there) and your or anyones body will continue to cut the fat, then you're lucky.


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

Well I did not.  I cycled the entire time.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> No I did not drop cals from beginning til end.  Not until the last 7 days
> 
> High Carb Days 2000-2200
> ...




I envy you.  Because I have reached far too many times where I would get in a hump and my bf would freeze.  The only way it would decrease is by changing my caloric intake.


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

I missed that, can I see some top flippin 



> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> This is what I'm talking about. All it takes is for ONE PERSON to make A GENERAL COMMENT THAT   D O E S sit well with another persons theory, they automatically start flipping their tops.
> 
> Chill out....if you don't like or agree with what I have to say about my thoughts or experiences...sorry......voice your opinion and let it speak for itself.


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> no but your appearance is thinner.  which is what I was saying...when you diet down you lose weight and fat.


Dehydration still has nothing to do with losing fat or my first competition.


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

All this calorie talk is making me hungry 

Let's go have some lunch Babsie...    Leave this thread and stop the fighting ....


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## Leslie (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> I envy you.  Because I have reached far too many times where I would get in a hump and my bf would freeze.  The only way it would decrease is by changing my caloric intake.



This is one of the reasons cyclinical diets are effective for fat loss and the metabolsim.


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## derekisdman (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Leslie *_
> This is called fat mobilizing. Its not a magic cream as you have to be in a calric deficit in order for it to work.



I thought it was frequently used while bulking to prevent fat storage in the stomach area too?


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## prophet (Nov 7, 2003)

i have also read nothin but good stuff about lipoderm-y and ab-solved.. i'm bulkin right now til end of feb.. bf% is gettin up there now so i might try some.. if i do, i'll let you guys know the results


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## Leslie (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by derekisdman *_
> I thought it was frequently used while bulking to prevent fat storage in the stomach area too?


It can be used that way, but that is not its primary intention or most effective trait.


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## ZECH (Nov 7, 2003)

Lipo y Indredients:
Isopropyl alcohol, benzyl alcohol, water, n-methyl-2-pyrrolidinone, glycerol, l-menthol, laurocapram, Carbomer 934. 
Along with yohimbine HCL


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## ZECH (Nov 7, 2003)

Absolved Ingredients: 
Isopropyl alcohol, benzyl alcohol, octyl salicylate, triglyceride complex, water, d-limonene, 3-acetyl-7-oxo-DHEA, carbomer


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> I missed that, can I see some top flippin




When I diet down, you'll be lucky to see anything under that top


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Dehydration still has nothing to do with losing fat or my first competition.



Your thinner period when you dehydrate and you lose your water


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Leslie *_
> This is one of the reasons cyclinical diets are effective for fat loss and the metabolsim.




I've been trying to talk my trainer into letting me do that type diet.  I obey what he asks or else I would try it.  I really REALLY want to try it because to me, it makes sense.  To him, it's diet and cardio.....diet and cardio....repeat over and over.


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> Your thinner period when you dehydrate and you lose your water


I still don't see your point as it has nothing to do with losing fat.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by prophet *_
> i have also read nothin but good stuff about lipoderm-y and ab-solved.. i'm bulkin right now til end of feb.. bf% is gettin up there now so i might try some.. if i do, i'll let you guys know the results




Can you take a before and after pic for us?


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> I still don't see your point as it has nothing to do with losing fat.




I did not associate fat with water.  See the post reply I sent to DG


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

> because when you diet down for a competition, you lose more weight/fat especially when you dehydrate



This is your quote.


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## vanity (Nov 7, 2003)

CATFIGHT.

meow.


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## Twin Peak (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> I've been trying to talk my trainer into letting me do that type diet.  I obey what he asks or else I would try it.  I really REALLY want to try it because to me, it makes sense.  To him, it's diet and cardio.....diet and cardio....repeat over and over.



Sounds to me like you need a new trainer.

I have never dropped calories each and every week.

Also, Jodi, you were taking high dose LeptiGen, which helped your leptin levels, it wasn't all the Cycle.


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

I hear ya Vanity....

Let's drop this subject.   Babsie has her opinion, Jodi has hers.
Let's leave it at that and start a new subject .

Just trying to help here


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

I would talk about calories and losing fat here myself...
But I don't want to be picked on today .


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Sounds to me like you need a new trainer.
> 
> I have never dropped calories each and every week.
> ...


Leptigen was a life saviour, it still is.


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## Arnold (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> Only because my plastic surgeon has stated that no amount of exercise or further change in my diet will remove the fat I have around my navel.  The only way it will go away is with Lipo.  Now, that's a guarantee!



Of course a plastic surgeon would say something so stupid, they want your money, not to mention they know NOTHING about diet, nutrition and fitness.

If they told you that diet and exercise would remove the body fat and save you $5,000 by not getting lipo, they would go out of business.


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## Dante B. (Nov 7, 2003)

From our site:

Q: Spot reducing is a sham. Don???t we all know that?

A: This is the typically espoused assumption, and is in most cases correct. When one consumes less calories then one???s body burns, a caloric deficit is created which your body must make up for. The human body typically combats this deficit through an increase in lipolysis (fat burning). Due to many genetic and hormonal variations, fat may not be lost in a proportional manner; that is, one may lose more weight from one???s arms and legs than one will from his or her abs and hips. 

Even so, when any type of significant lipolysis occurs, the body is in a manner ???spot reducing.??? Several areas on the body experience a decrease in girth in response to caloric deficit. This ???spot reduction??? is an effect, not a cause. The misconception regarding ???spot reduction??? largely originates from the fact that most assume this to mean the elimination of fat from a given area with the use of a magical crème which initiates lipolysis WITHOUT caloric deficit, or the use of toning exercises erroneously believed to reduce fat concentrations in a specific area. This is simply not possible.

There can be no spot reduction without caloric deficit. The problem in the past has been that we have had very little control in determining the areas from which the body will preferentially burn fat. As already established, caloric deficit alone will result in lipolysis, though its effects will be experienced to a greater degree in some areas (???spots???) as opposed to others. Control of this process has in the past been largely beyond our reach. 

With the exception of the topical Yohimbine HCl products that have preceded Lipoderm-Y, these topical ???fat burners??? failed to address the issue of systemic uptake (overall distribution into the blood stream), and were nothing more than diuretics. Unlike the false claims put forth by the manufacturers of these diuretic agents, Lipoderm-Y does not pretend to generate a controllable spot reducing effect without a concurrent caloric deficit. 

As opposed to internal events dictating the origin of the fat stores to be released and burned for fuel, this process can now be largely controlled externally with Lipoderm-Y; it will release fat from the site of application and allow a degree of control over the patterns in which fat loss will occur.

Instead of reducing your calories, and then internally waiting for your body to release fat from those ???trouble spots??? which are reluctant to let go of adipose tissue, Lipoderm-Y releases the fat from the site(s) of application, and when combined with a caloric deficit, results in the effective realization of controllable ???spot-reduction.??? 

------

The end. If anyone has any questions, shoot away.


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## Twin Peak (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> I wasn't knocking on Avant or those products.
> 
> The reasons why I asked for the ingredients were so I can ask him question in regards to what it does to the skin and how cuts into your fat cells.



7-keto-DHEA prevents the conversion to cortisol.  Cortisol causes VAT.


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## Dante B. (Nov 7, 2003)

Cutting Gel's active ingredient is aminophylline.

It is primarily, a diuretic. A2 adrenoceptor antagonism (as with YHCL), addresses a primary factor in gynoid adipose distribution.


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

Can someone toss me a pencil so I can take note of this information...


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## Twin Peak (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> I'd like to see a study done on that.
> 
> Preferrably done on a person that has HONESTLY dieted & trained for quite some time and still has problems losing the fat around the abdominal area.  Till this person is at the point where lipo suction is needed as a final resort!
> ...



Or you can try a bottle, since it has a money back guarantee.


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## Dante B. (Nov 7, 2003)

Or you can listen to my explanation, which is free.

Take note, however, that I am absolutely full of shit. I don't even trust myself.

No one should.


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## nikegurl (Nov 7, 2003)

not that anyone asked or cares....but i quite like this dante guy.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> This is your quote.




AND IT CLEARLY DOES *NOT* SAY dehydrating is losing bf..............



This is from my quote:  *because when you diet down for a competition, you lose more weight/fat especially when you dehydrate*


when you diet down you lose fat and weight..............

Let me break out the crayons for you.........fat when you diet down........water  (as being said above AS WEIGHT LOSS) loss when you dehydrate....


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## vanity (Nov 7, 2003)

Dante , we know you're full of shit but we like you anyways.


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

> you lose more weight/fat especially when you dehydrate


Exactly
You said right here.  You lose more weight and fat especially when you dehydrate.  

Umm HELLO!!!


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## vanity (Nov 7, 2003)

Men are obsessed with muscle, women with fat.

oh joy.


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

Dante,

I hope my comment didn't prompt this outburst.  Cause I wasn't dissagreeing with you.  I was just simply stating that all of the terminology was complicated and for me to grasp it, I would have to write it down.  You have to admit that some of the terminologies that goes a long with these products, you have to be a doctor to understand.  That is all I was implying man. 



> _*Originally posted by Dante B. *_
> Or you can listen to my explanation, which is free.
> 
> Take note, however, that I am absolutely full of shit. I don't even trust myself.
> ...


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> Of course a plastic surgeon would say something so stupid, they want your money, not to mention they know NOTHING about diet, nutrition and fitness.
> 
> If they told you that diet and exercise would remove the body fat and save you $5,000 by not getting lipo, they would go out of business.




I see where you're coming from Prince.  If this wasn't a family friend and one that didn't know my history, I would think the same thing.  This guy also works out religiously.  I don't think he knows the ins and outs of dieting and nutrition but he has some clue.  

This guy works strickly with athletes and the first thing he does is set them on specific diets and training programs.  If that doesn't work then he'll re-evaluate.  His first recommendation is to diet, etc...before he will consider lipo suction.


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## Arnold (Nov 7, 2003)

can we keep this thread civil kids? 

it's one post away from being closed if anyone cares.


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## vanity (Nov 7, 2003)

liposuction is pathetic.


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## senimoni (Nov 7, 2003)

LOL he lost me at andro....whatever.

Me no undastand da englais.

I'm beyond needing to write it down. 




> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> Dante,
> 
> I hope my comment didn't prompt this outburst.  Cause I wasn't dissagreeing with you.  I was just simply stating that all of the terminology was complicated and for me to grasp it, I would have to write it down.  You have to admit that some of the terminologies that goes a long with these products, you have to be a doctor to understand.  That is all I was implying man.


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

Don't feel bad Senimoni....
Half this stuff is over my head too.
I am just here to have a little fun.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dante B. *_
> From our site:
> 
> Instead of reducing your calories, and then internally waiting for your body to release fat from those ???trouble spots??? which are reluctant to let go of adipose tissue, Lipoderm-Y releases the fat from the site(s) of application, and when combined with a caloric deficit, results in the effective realization of controllable ???spot-reduction.???
> ...




Thanks Dante


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

I agree Vanity.

Lipo is a pathetic substitute for exercise and proper nutrition.
Some probably just go in like an oil change on your car.  They eat like pigs and go in regularly for their once a month lipo 
What a life ...

No seriously speaking, the only thing I can see it would be useful is only for the seriously obese people who are at a critical life threating stage due to their weight.  For those cases, lipo can be a blessing.



> _*Originally posted by vanity *_
> liposuction is pathetic.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Or you can try a bottle, since it has a money back guarantee.




I want to try a bottle.  Would it make sense to get to the point where I just cannot lose the fat in that section first?


TP  -- Thanks for being level headed.  I do appreciate your help.


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

Babsie,

I have a special tummy massage that will get that unwanted fat off...   And my sessions are absolutely free.  When can we start 

I know, I'm bad.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dante B. *_
> Or you can listen to my explanation, which is free.
> 
> Take note, however, that I am absolutely full of shit. I don't even trust myself.
> ...




 

yeah yeah.....  You no, you're a hottie with the women here


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Exactly
> You said right here.  You lose more weight and fat especially when you dehydrate.
> 
> Umm HELLO!!!





Open your eyes a little more...key word.........*especially*  You don't need to alter my quotes.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> Babsie,
> 
> I have a special tummy massage that will get that unwanted fat off...   And my sessions are absolutely free.  When can we start
> ...




lol....what might that be?


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

I did not alter your quote.  that is directly from you. 


I'm sorry but what are you missing here.  



> because when you diet down for a competition, you lose more weight/fat especially when you dehydrate



This is stating that you lose more fat ESPECIALLY when you dehydrate which is simply false.


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

If I told you Babs it wouldn't be special now would it. 



> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> lol....what might that be?


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> can we keep this thread civil kids?
> 
> it's one post away from being closed if anyone cares.





absolutely


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## nikegurl (Nov 7, 2003)

i have to agree - manipulating your water right before contest has no impact on bodyfat levels.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> I did not alter your quote.  that is directly from you.
> 
> 
> ...




No sweety  --  You're reading in what you want to see as a negative comment from me.  I've explained it above and I'm not going to again.  Take it however you want.


You said my quote said:   you lose fat and water when you dehydrate...which is not what I said.


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## vanity (Nov 7, 2003)

Randy , would that be the Pillsbury doughboy massage?


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

Vanity,  now how did you know that?  
Now you spoiled my surprise


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> If I told you Babs it wouldn't be special now would it.




Special things come from special people


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

I am reading it exactly how you wrote it.  I quoted YOUR quote several times and it still says the same thing.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> i have to agree - manipulating your water right before contest has no impact on bodyfat levels.





NG  --  You're getting confused.  Maybe I should've put fat on the left side of my slash vs the right.  Then maybe Jodi would feel better.......and yes, I agree.  Water does not alter your bf, which is not what I said.


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## vanity (Nov 7, 2003)

I'm the Grinch of strength training.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_because when you diet down for a competition, you lose more weight/fat especially when you dehydrate





This is my quote........


I think the weight/fat part is what is getting to you the most.

Would you understand it better if I had it:

Because when you diet down for a competition, you lose for fat/weight especially when you dehydrate.

That's not saying..........you lose fat when you dehydrate.  That comment says:  this is what happens to weight and fat when you diet and dehyrate.      Fat being lost during diet, weight being lost when you dehydrate.


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

Its the same thing

You would have been better understood if you said:

You lose fat when you diet down and weight when you dehydrate.  

and leave the especially out.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> 
> Its the same thing
> 
> ...




Okay....well you now understand what I was saying?

I can see the especially part.


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## vanity (Nov 7, 2003)

I think the only way to remedy this hair-splitting is to hold a 12 round mudwrestling match between Jodi and Babsiegirl.

last woman standing wins.

>>>>>>>>>get your tickets here>>>>>>>>>>>>


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## HoldDaMayo (Nov 7, 2003)

would anyone like to critique any other of Babs' posts?  I mean, it looks like this one has been THOROUGHLY nit picked... perhaps we could start on "the early years" posts... **sigh**


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

Hold  --  don't make it worse than it already is.  My opinion is my opinion and Jodi's opinion is her opinion.  I Think we're both bull headed.  





Van  --  This is just a debate.  and a good one at that.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

Okay....I'm going home now.  be back online later.

Jodi  --  It's been real sister


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## ZECH (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> My opinion is my opinion and Jodi's opinion is her opinion.  I Think we're both bull headed.


LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!
I've learned that what everybody believes, they believe it very whole-heartedly. That doesn't make it wrong.


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## ZECH (Nov 7, 2003)

Look at it this way, I'm sure some reading this have learned something. That makes it worth it!


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## nikegurl (Nov 7, 2003)

this reminds me in one way of other similar debates we've had (cardio and carbs come to mind).  the common thread seems to be old school vs new school thinking/methods.

speaking only for myself it's hard sometimes to let go of the "old ways".  back in the day i read every issue of m&f, flex, musclemag etc cover to cover.  i clipped articles on precontest prep, fatloss etc. and just ate up every word.

when i did my first contest 10 years ago (yep, i'm old) i did cardio twice daily, i cut my calories lower and lower as contest day approached and lived in constant fear of all dietary fats.  the end result - lots of lost muscle.


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## Dante B. (Nov 7, 2003)

Randy,

It was just me being a smart-ass.

If you want me to explain anything, I'm open to discussion.



> You no, you're a hottie with the women here



Then why am I alone on a Friday night. Get over here and keep me company.

Also note, it's never wise to argue with Jodi. I tried, in Vegas, and now I'm nursing several puncture wounds.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dante B. *_
> Then why am I alone on a Friday night. Get over here and keep me company.
> 
> Also note, it's never wise to argue with Jodi. I tried, in Vegas, and now I'm nursing several puncture wounds.



hmm...is it maybe because you're picky?  

  If I could come over there and keep you company......I would  be ALL OVER IT!!!!!  


LOL  --  I bet you won't argue with her again!


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## Dante B. (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> I want to try a bottle.  Would it make sense to get to the point where I just cannot lose the fat in that section first?




Yes, unless you've dieted down before knowing well ahead of time what those stubborn areas are.

It's more of an "icing on the cake" supplement. No reason to spend money on fat you could have lost by dieting (and exercise) alone. Then, if you find yourself relatively lean everywhere else but your hips and thighs (for example), a topical YHCL that antagonizes the A2 receptors may be of help.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

Okay  --  Wanna know something REALLY freaky?


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dante B. *_
> Yes, unless you've dieted down before knowing well ahead of time what those stubborn areas are.
> 
> It's more of an "icing on the cake" supplement. No reason to spend money on fat you could have lost by dieting (and exercise) alone. Then, if you find yourself relatively lean everywhere else but your hips and thighs (for example), a topical YHCL that antagonizes the A2 receptors may be of help.




I'm in heaven right now!

I agree with this.  I do know where my trouble areas are.  The plan would be....diet down then experiment with your product in that aspect.  Therefore, I agree that waiting would be the best advice because like you said, "There's no reason to spend money on fat you could have lost by dieting and exercise alone.



I just edited this due to a TYPO......wow!  I'm amazed no one caught that...whew!


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

Yep, I agree too Babsie...
You can do some amazing things with just the proper diet and exercise... give it a whirl.   Who needs supplements...blah !  Well they work for some, but I don't really believe in em.  At least for me.  Other than protein and creatine.   But what do I know.


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

Now please...nobody flame me for my opinion or I will go get Jonwell


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dante B. *_
> 
> Also note, it's never wise to argue with Jodi. I tried, in Vegas, and now I'm nursing several puncture wounds.


I'm still cleaning the dried blood off my boots ya know so quit your bitching.


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

And I thought this topic would never end 
You mean the blood finally dried?


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## Dante B. (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> Okay  --  Wanna know something REALLY freaky?



What.

Do tell.

Now.

I mean it.


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## Dante B. (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> Yep, I agree too Babsie...
> You can do some amazing things with just the proper diet and exercise... give it a whirl.   Who needs supplements.



No one needs them. No one needs anything. But some wish to have more than their genetics are willing to hand over.

Anyone who uses supplements without proper training and nutrition is retarded. Anyone who thinks that training and dieting conquers all is highly delusional.

Unfortunately, most people rest on top of one extreme or another.


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## derekisdman (Nov 7, 2003)

Dante's Peak


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## Dante B. (Nov 7, 2003)

It's not that impressive.

Neither is my intellect. But that never stopped me from breaking the silence of the ocean.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

Here goes.

A couple months ago the IT manager (where I work)  grabbed my glutes.  I was in shock because this was not his kind of behavior.  Plus he was getting carried away with his "style" of flirting.  Anyway, I turned him in for sexual harrassment.  With that being said, I informed the HR mgr not to fire him rather, inform him not to let this happen again, etc........  For the record......I can flirt and handle remarks in that regard HOWEVER, touching is a no no in the work place.

Today he was walked out of the building.  He got terminated.  I was puzzled all day as to why he was terminated.  Before I left work, the president of the company I work for called me into to his office along with my mgr.  He shut the door.  I was freaking out BIG TIME.  I thought...OH NO....I just losted my job.......

Come to find out, this guy was fired because one, he sexually harrassed me and two, HE HAS BEEN TAKING PICTURES OF ME...at home, work, the gym, etc............I didn't ask to see the photos.  Ugh and the company just told me about this after they've known now for two weeks.  he even has some of the photo's stored in his computer.........

Would this not freak you out?  I have EVERY lock on the doors locked and the security alarm set............


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dante B. *_
> No one needs them. No one needs anything. But some wish to have more than their genetics are willing to hand over.
> 
> Anyone who uses supplements without proper training and nutrition is retarded. Anyone who thinks that training and dieting conquers all is highly delusional.
> ...




You actually used the word retarded...... 

Thought you'd use:  Simpleton


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## Dante B. (Nov 7, 2003)

> Would this not freak you out?



Are you trying to say that you don't want me stalking you?

I get the message.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

Are you saying that you'd want to?


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## Dante B. (Nov 7, 2003)

I'm not sure what's the right answer in this situation.

Help me out.


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## JerseyDevil (Nov 7, 2003)

Wow.  I log on, and see this 5 page and counting thread.  

Was anything Ab-Solved?

 

I crack myself up!


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dante B. *_
> I'm not sure what's the right answer in this situation.
> 
> Help me out.




ugh....and I thought only women played mind games 

Tell me what you think and I'll tell you if you're correct.


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

Darnit, I guess that means my giving you a message is out the window    And I really wanted to feel those glutes too...
That sure bursted my bubble.



> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> Here goes.
> 
> A couple months ago the IT manager (where I work)  grabbed my glutes.  I was in shock because this was not his kind of behavior.  Plus he was getting carried away with his "style" of flirting.  Anyway, I turned him in for sexual harrassment.  With that being said, I informed the HR mgr not to fire him rather, inform him not to let this happen again, etc........  For the record......I can flirt and handle remarks in that regard HOWEVER, touching is a no no in the work place.
> ...


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## Dante B. (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> ugh....and I thought only women played mind games
> 
> Tell me what you think and I'll tell you if you're correct.



I'm more comfortable if a woman tells me what I should think. In that case, I can never be wrong.


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

I fantasize about you every night Babsie, but taking your pictures at home, work and the gym....that is to much.   I would at least wait till you were in the shower to take em 

No seriously speaking....I would press charges to the limit if I was you.. That would definately freak me out....  What a sick bastard.
It is people like that that give us respectible perverts a bad name


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dante B. *_
> I'm more comfortable if a woman tells me what I should think. In that case, I can never be wrong.




In that case, I think you and I would get along just fine.  I've been told I'm a strong woman.  Both physically and Intellectually.  I take it you like strong women?


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## Dante B. (Nov 7, 2003)

I was joking.

However, I hate skinny types as well as the intellectually aborted. I prefer women who lift.

I'm also a pain in the ass, and incredibly stubborn.

But stalking is just too much trouble. I prefer a more direct approach.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> I fantasize about you every night Babsie, but taking your pictures at home, work and the gym....that is to much.   I would at least wait till you were in the shower to take em
> 
> *the last line is WAY too funny!"*
> ...


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dante B. *_
> I was joking.
> 
> However, I hate skinny types as well as the intellectually aborted. I prefer women who lift.
> ...




Hey. I'm with ya when it comes to skinny types.  I like men with meat on their bones.  I also like a man who is direct and strong.  One who knows how to take charge and one who can handle me.


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## Dante B. (Nov 7, 2003)

I'm quiet and shy.

And full of it.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

I was told to stear clear from the shy quiet types..........

I cannot imagine you being shy.

Being full of it,......that's more like it


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## Dante B. (Nov 7, 2003)

That hurt.

I'm not shy, just anti-social. Not in a psychotic way, either, unless that's what you want to hear.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

I'm sneaky.....I sit back and imbibe.  Then I speak!

Why would one want to hear that?


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## Dante B. (Nov 7, 2003)

> Why would one want to hear that?



I don't know. You tell me.

 

I'm perfectly normal. Perfectly normal. Perfectly normal. Perfectly normal. Got to go to K Mart, definitely K Mart.


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## Dante B. (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BabsieGirl *_
> Tell me what you think and I'll tell you if you're correct.



Getting back to this:

I saw your pictures. I think you're swell.


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## HoldDaMayo (Nov 7, 2003)

i second that notion....


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

I seen Babsie's pictures too. I have them posted all over my wall   I've even made some into stamps so I can lick babsie every time I mail a letter 

Now that isn't perverted is it?


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

Babsie,

I thought you had a guy?  Why would you be taking the garbage out at all?  Your man should be doing that kinda stuff?  What kind of man is he making you take out the garbage.   Well just call me old fashioned I guess.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

I believe in equality.  Besides, the divorce is almost final


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

Hmmmmmmmmmm now this throws a different angle on the situation here.   Now I was acting reserved before, cause I thought you were accounted for.


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

Now I can really lust over ya Babsie


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

No actually, I'm sorry to hear about your divorce.  While I've never personally been through one, I can understand how difficult it must be for you.   And I mean that with all sincerity.


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## Dante B. (Nov 7, 2003)

I'm still game for any questions regarding AB-Solved, LipoDerm-Y (etc), or anything spot-reduction related.



> Now I can really lust over ya Babsie



Back off, she's mine.


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

Dante,

Ok you can have her.  But only in your wildest dreams 
Now for reality, she is all mine. 



> _*Originally posted by Dante B. *_
> 
> Back off, she's mine.


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

Dante  -  Thanks for the compliment.  I think your pics were swell also.  

Hold  --  You're quite the character and you always seem to put a smile on my face.

Randy  --  stick your tongue back in your mouth.  There's nothing to lust over.  It's just a figment of your imagination.  You also put a smile on my face

Well gentlemen, it's been real....I'm tired and going to sleep.  Early to rise.  6am and I'm doing to dread EVERY min of it.

See ya tomorrow or on Monday.


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

Ok nite Babsie....


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

Why do you have to get up so early on a Saturday morning?


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

lol...thought I'd add this in for ya

Sweet Dreams


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

Now what are you trying to do Babsie...Torture me


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> Why do you have to get up so early on a Saturday morning?




Because I have priorities.  

Nah...I don't know if you follow my journal but, I train legs on Friday or Sat.

I also have a new client I'm meeting.  You've heard of her I'm sure.  She's from IM.  

That and I need to get my training out of the way so I can prepare for tomorrow evenings HOCKEY game.


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

I'm sorry babsie, but no I haven't been able to keep up with your journal .    So you get up that early just to go jogging... wow! 
I don't even get up that early when I go fishing.

Your going to a hockey game...kewl.  Who you seeing?
I went to my first game a few weeks ago.. I seen the Sharks at the HP Pavilion in one of their presidential sweets   I got to feel like a big shot for a couple hours.  It was lots of fun.  And best of all it was all free.   Had free tickets


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

Oh brother, this thread is still going.

Pathetic I tell ya.


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

No, I think your earlier battling was pathetic.
Now what is wrong with engaging in a little harmless conversation which we are doing now? 



> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Oh brother, this thread is still going.
> 
> Pathetic I tell ya.


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## Jodi (Nov 7, 2003)

First of all it wasn't a battle BY FAR!!!  It wasn't even a disagreement.  

2nd, you don't want me to go there and I won't.  I'm keeping my mouth shut as of right now before I say things I shouldn't say


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## Randy (Nov 7, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> I'm keeping my mouth shut as of right now before I say things I shouldn't say


I think that's best


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## BabsieGirl (Nov 8, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Oh brother, this thread is still going.
> 
> Pathetic I tell ya.


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## Jenny (Nov 8, 2003)

I think this is a very informative thread 

*this post has been edited due to a misunderstanding*


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## Jodi (Nov 8, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> not that anyone asked or cares....but i quite like this dante guy.


Me too!


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## vanity (Nov 8, 2003)

Arguing a quote incessantly is considered a highly effective aerobic activity by Buddhist monks.

Did you ever see a fat Buddhist monk?

They're always arguing , that is when they're not meditating ofcourse.


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## Randy (Nov 8, 2003)

I think Jenny knows how to argue in French. Now that would be interesting


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## Jenny (Nov 9, 2003)

haha, nope, I wasn't writing that to argue Randy  But if I did I could have written it in several european languages


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## Randy (Nov 9, 2003)

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeck....  I swear I am behaving myself Jenny   I don't want to be called bad names in several European languages...


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## Randy (Nov 9, 2003)

I know you weren't writing to argue Jenny...I was just teasin ya


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## Jenny (Nov 9, 2003)

Okay Randy  I've got my eyes on you   I edited my post since it did sound kinda hostile


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## Randy (Nov 9, 2003)

UUGGGG OHHHHHH


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## Muscleparasite (Feb 12, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by SZ03 *_
> Ok guys here is the deal. Just this morning I had my BF% and RMR tested.
> 
> My RMR is at 2679 kcal/24 hr and my BF% was tested with DEXA at 7.9%. The Breakdown was like this: Arms 5%, Legs 7.2%, and trunk (chest and belly) at 9.1%.
> ...


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## myCATpowerlifts (Feb 14, 2004)

why would you go back to a thread from months ago, just to post a quote?...


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