# 17HD day 2 holy god!!



## CRASHMAN (Sep 13, 2006)

Ok, so yesterday i wonder into gnc to buy some Tbomb2 for a little extra kick. Im looking around at other stuff and start talking to the clerk who has used both tbomb and 17HD. By the end of the convo, i bought the 17HD and dam i'm glad that i did. It's only day two for me; however, the energy rush you get from the stuff alone is better than caffiene. Period. Feels like i just chomped down 4 Redlines.. im a virgin to test products. Except, i've used tbomb and it doesn't even come close to how i feel.... or at all. I dont know about strength but my sense of well being is great and its been two days.. weird but awesome. I think its worth the money for the feeling lol and my ability to go on a tangent is amazing like in the "why i hate dudes thread". I dunno about strength but stuff has got me amped.


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## kenwood (Sep 13, 2006)

nice ha.


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## viet_jon (Sep 13, 2006)

who makes it?  better than coffee? sounds good....how much?


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## Deeznuts (Sep 13, 2006)

Even though these enhancers are, at the moment, legal, I would make sure you have a SERIOUSLY good foundation built before dipping into supplements such as these.

On another note - what the hell are you wasting your money at GNC for? LOL


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## TaylorsNutrition (Sep 13, 2006)

Wow, how much was it at GNC?


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## CRASHMAN (Sep 13, 2006)

it was 80$, its made by vyo-tech. Gnc, don't ask i couldn't tell you lol


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## kenwood (Sep 13, 2006)

17-HD Tbomb2


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## TaylorsNutrition (Sep 13, 2006)

kenwood said:


> 17-HD Tbomb2



Wow they're high too.  I actually found some sample packs in our storage that I got from the Texas show. I guess I need to give them a try.....


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## Flakko (Sep 13, 2006)

I tried a sample of Nitrobolic Extreme and I thought it was pretty good. When I got that one I got a free sample of the 17 HD and gave it to my co-worker, because I didn't want it.


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## bballstud (Sep 14, 2006)

is the 17 hd jsut a natural test booster? or is it methylated like superdrol and stuff?


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## CRASHMAN (Sep 14, 2006)

according to the site its a testosterone spiker which ramps up your test before a workout and it is not suppose to be supressive


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## Pirate! (Sep 14, 2006)

17 HD is not a test booster, although Vyo-tech claims it is. Some people get nothing and some get extremely amped. It likely is some sort of CNS stimulant. I don't believe Vyo-tech is being honest. IDS has a knock-off product that some claim is better.


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## Focus (Sep 14, 2006)

Pirate! said:


> 17 HD is not a test booster, although Vyo-tech claims it is. Some people get nothing and some get extremely amped. It likely is some sort of CNS stimulant. I don't believe Vyo-tech is being honest. IDS has a knock-off product that some claim is better.



Strange approach, but I actually think you may be right. The active incredient in the product is rather strange - something I've never seen before in a "natural test booster." It's comprised of 4 or 5 things, all unfamiliar to me.

How do you think this performs, however? A stimulant like product... would it work for strength or mass gains? Or both, would you say?

Crashman, keep us posted man. I'm becoming interested in this certain supplement, even if I don't plan on taking it.


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## CRASHMAN (Sep 14, 2006)

i worked out with it today... nothing out of the ordinary but i did have that crazy energy rush again. although, it has been only 3 days so i'll be weighting for the next chest day to know if its working for sure.


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## Focus (Sep 21, 2006)

How is the product working out for you?


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## Focus (Sep 23, 2006)

Still taking it? Any gains?


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## CRASHMAN (Sep 23, 2006)

actually the product is pretty solid. It got me through wrestling without a chance of stopping. i felt stronger; i had that crazy rush feeling all the time. However, i'm not the solid one. I started to get bloody noses(jump in blood pressure). I dont deal well with any type of anabolic so i had to stop. But id def reccomend it to someone who can deal.


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## CRASHMAN (Sep 23, 2006)

oh and i got a migrane which basically really ended it. A bad one.


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## CRASHMAN (Sep 23, 2006)

Really bad.


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## Focus (Sep 23, 2006)

Strange... I definetly agree with the earlier poster then - it does not appear to be a test boosting product, but rather something else.


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## CRASHMAN (Sep 23, 2006)

I can't say that it isn't because i felt (i know it was only a week) that i had gotten bigger or atleast back to my size i was before i took time off. I was hearing steroid comments constantly from friends who were just around.. I think there was something anabolic about or maybe i just noticed the comments more when i was on it.  I react REALLY well to products in the growth category but the sides category goes hand in hand.


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## andyo (Sep 25, 2006)

Well I decided to try a bottle, using it only during weight training days, which is every other workout. So far here is what I've experienced: 

Huge rush of energy, or power
Racing heart
Hard to breathe at times
Slight headache
Sleeping well on those nights


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## ZECH (Sep 25, 2006)

Crash, those headaches and bloody noses are serious. Please watch your blood pressure! Try to get you some supps that will help your BP! You need to get it down.


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## CRASHMAN (Sep 25, 2006)

dg806 said:


> Crash, those headaches and bloody noses are serious. Please watch your blood pressure! Try to get you some supps that will help your BP! You need to get it down.



I was monitoring my BP when it happened and i was at 122/80 so i was normal.. so i dunno if it was my BP and its normal right now.


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## zombul (Sep 26, 2006)

Anymore updates guys?


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## ZECH (Sep 26, 2006)

CRASHMAN said:


> I was monitoring my BP when it happened and i was at 122/80 so i was normal.. so i dunno if it was my BP and its normal right now.



Good! Just keep a check on it.


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## Trouble (Sep 26, 2006)

Nope, you pumped out inflammatory agents that led to your headache, would be my guess.  Also, in order for you to metabolize these "test inducing" compounds, you must conjugated them in the liver.  That requires taurine, N-acetyl-cysteine or glucuronate.  My bet is that you also depleted taurine in the brain.  Taurine protects against excitotoxicity and also against sudden ion increases in brain cells. You may also have low or borderline magnesium  The action of these steroid analogs is to increase second messenger (Ca+2) translocation.  That may result in a chronic shortage of magnesium, which balances charges. WIthout it, muscles in the chest, face, neck/upper back and scalp can tighten down, constricting blood flow and causing a temporary jump in local pressure, producing, along with elevated pain and inflammation compounds, a headache and muscle aches.


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## CRASHMAN (Sep 26, 2006)

Trouble said:


> Nope, you pumped out inflammatory agents that led to your headache, would be my guess.  Also, in order for you to metabolize these "test inducing" compounds, you must conjugated them in the liver.  That requires taurine, N-acetyl-cysteine or glucuronate.  My bet is that you also depleted taurine in the brain.  Taurine protects against excitotoxicity and also against sudden ion increases in brain cells. You may also have low or borderline magnesium  The action of these steroid analogs is to increase second messenger (Ca+2) translocation.  That may result in a chronic shortage of magnesium, which balances charges. WIthout it, muscles in the chest, face, neck/upper back and scalp can tighten down, constricting blood flow and causing a temporary jump in local pressure, producing, along with elevated pain and inflammation compounds, a headache and muscle aches.



Dam, that was one sexy paragraph. So should i go get some magnesium next time i run something or should my multi be enough? suggestions?


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## Strongwarrior (Dec 27, 2006)

I must admit I like 17hd. I don't know if it's all psychological or what, but I swear I feel like my testosterone levels go up whenever I take this supplement. I'm stronger in the gym, very intense, I don't get as tired. I have a friend of mine who loves it too. Some claim they can get aggressive while on 17hd. Some claim is garbage. In my opinion, 17hd seems to work well if your testosterone levels are already kinda high, then again, I'm not sure, it could be psychological. I remember it helped me get out of a platau, a long time ago. It helps you get leaner too. It has a lot of good reviews all over the internet. I used to take 1-ad, 17hd is probably even better than 1-ad, but then again, I could be wrong...


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## nni (Dec 27, 2006)

here is a good post about what 17HD actually is...


** Androgenic's review of 17-HD ** 

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I will explain how this product bothers me on an unparalleled scale. It is what is wrong with the industry. Shawn Ray uses it???hmm. This product is deceptive, trying to sound like a prohormone or even a potent steroid. The company has stated they did not decide on the name or try and be deceptive it was what the ???scientist??? (seriously) named it...so that's what they went with...HAHAHA! Even if they have a "scientist" of some sort, which they probably don't, that guy is not in control of their financial fate in the naming/marketing/advertising of the product. 

17-HD (17-Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone): To review the choice of name here, by marketing NOT SCIENCE???let???s review.

1.)17 ??? As is c17a, the 17th carbon at the alpha position is where anabolic steroids have their potency and toxicity and often is where a methyl group is as attached.
2.)Halo ??? Besides being a great X-Box game, it is another group of steroids such as the popular halotestin, also halodrol is quite popular in the prohormone world.
3.)Methyl ??? See #1. Also ??? see buzz word of the year (#2 is ethyl ester)
4.)Dianadrone ??? Diana(bol) aka methandrostenolone, comes pretty close to hitting the whole 17-HD name is one fall swoop.
5.)17-HD, or 17-Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone, sounds like a chemical compound doesn???t it? Sounds like one heck of a methylated potent oral steroid. Right?

Guess what? It???s not. Matter of fact it???s just a bunch of herbs. I???d say this is pretty deceptive so far, but lets get into the useless or even counterproductive part.


Here is the ingredients according to the write-up:

17- Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone: 400mg 
Ge Gan (pueraria lobota) 
Smilax Officinalis 
N.O. Oliliacae 

Betaecdysterone 100mg 
Wild yam extract 100mg 
Glabra 100mg 
Phosphatidyl choline 50mg 
Citric acid 50mg 

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We'll start with wild yam and go from there.
Wild Yam is great at regulating estrogen...there's a potent benefit! And I will quote:

"Wild yam has been used for menstrual cramps or pain, menopausal symptoms, rheumatic conditions, and gallbladder complaints. Wild yam is sometimes suggested as an alternative to hormone replacement therapy. While components of wild yam are chemically manufactured into the hormones progesterone or estrogen, the body is unable to use wild yam in the same way."
http://www.drugs.com/MTM/wild_yam.html

__________________________________________________ ________________________________
Ge Gen is aka kudzu and I quote: 

"Chemicals extracted from kudzu include isoflavones known as daidzein, daidzin, genistein, and puerarin. Isoflavones are plant chemicals that have estrogenic and antioxidant effects."
http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Her...Ge+Gen,00.html

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How 'bout Smilax? Let's go for the trifecta shall we? Smilax officinalis is also known as sarsparilla.
I'll quote again...

"In the United States, sarsaparilla is sold primarily as an oral remedy for skin conditions such as psoriasis. It is believed that chemicals in sarsaparilla may attach to endotoxins (the remnants of bacterial cells) that are common in individuals with psoriasis and certain other conditions. By eliminating or reducing the amounts of endotoxins in the body, sarsaparilla may help to relieve the condition. 

Orally, sarsaparilla also has weak diuretic and laxative effects, which may make it useful in promoting the loss of excess water from the body and also in treating mild constipation. It may also promote sweating, which may help to reduce fever. Additionally, sarsaparilla contains chemicals that may act as a mild expectorant ??? a substance that may loosen bronchial mucus and promote coughing. However, none of these effects has been verified through clinical studies and they may vary greatly depending on the amounts and type of sarsaparilla that is used. "
http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Her...inalis,00.html
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Hmm...well we've established it raises estrogen, has laxative effects...is there anything else this miracle supplement can do for me you ask? 

Well I am glad you asked...Glabra is cute renaming (as every ingredient is and the product itself) of Glycyrrhiza glabra, aka Licorice. Licorice you say? Yes, THE ultimate bodybuilding supplement. And I will quote: 

"Licorice is also a mild laxative. Large doses of glycyrrhizinic acid and glycyrrhetinic acid in liquorice extract can lead to hypokalemia and serious increases in blood pressure, a syndrome known as apparent mineralocorticoid excess. These side effects stem from the inhibition of the enzyme 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (type 2) and subsequent increase in activity of cortisol on the kidney. 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase normally inactivates cortisol in the kidney; thus, licorice's inactivation of this enzyme makes the concentration of cortisol appear to increase. Cortisol acts at the same receptor as the hormone aldosterone in the kidney; thus, the effects mimic aldosterone excess, although aldosterone remains low or normal during licorice overdose. Cortisol does not actually increase either; however, its activity in the kidney effectively increases due to the disabling of this enzyme. To decrease the chances of these serious side effects, deglycyrrhizinated licorice (DGL) preparations are available.

Licorice affects the body's endocrine system. It can lower the amount of serum testosterone, but whether it affects the amount of free testosterone is unclear. A PubMed search for licorice AND testosterone will provide additional information."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licorice

Well, cool, Licorice decrease testosterone, increases blood pressure and may increase catabolic hormones. Oh yeah, and again its a laxative. 
__________________________________________________ ________________________________

So lets tally up the results: we got elevated estrogen, decreased testosterone, increased cortisol, increased blood pressure, and 2 laxatives.

Lastly, there is one ingredient listed that, in fact, does not exist???so I can???t tell you what it is other than it is an herb. N.O. (sounds like Nitric Oxide ??? Buzz Word!) Olilicae. Sorry. Given the collective data one WHAT IS IN THERE, I wouldn???t hope for much.

Well the only thing of benefit I see here is the 50mg of Vitamin C (citric acid), which doesn't even meet the lowly RDA. Sweet formulation. Really. 

Good luck to anyone who uses this. The supplement industry loves you.


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## Strongwarrior (Dec 30, 2006)

Hey, as long as they don't ban it, I'm happy...


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## Arnold (Dec 30, 2006)

Smilax Officinalis 

I remember using this in the 80's! (it is absolutely worthless)


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