# possible to get gyno on tren?



## alphabolic (Mar 6, 2011)

i know it is chemically impossible for tren to aromatize but is there still any way to develop gyno on tren?

i was thinking if i wanted to run tren in the future, what's the lowest dose of test you could stack it with since test easily aromatizes? the whole point of this is to let the tren do most of the work while still doing the right thing by adding test.

so if one were to run 350mg of tren a week, what's the minimum amount of test one could run safely if they were concerned about gyno?

im still gonna run test prop only for my first cycle but i was bored and wanted to know how something like this could work. gyno is my #1 concern with aas even though i dont have it. just slightly puffy nipples that i should lose with a lower body fat. im at 14% roughly.


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## Ravager (Mar 6, 2011)

What about use of AI's such as Aromasin to prevent aromatase and/or gyno


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## alphabolic (Mar 6, 2011)

Ravager said:


> What about use of AI's such as Aromasin to prevent aromatase and/or gyno


 
yea i have more than enough arimidex for my 7 week test prop cycle at 437.5mg a week (125mg every other day) but i really want aromasin because it's a more effective AI.  i might even pick up some letro in case of emergency.  that's how badly i dont want gyno.


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## vindicated346 (Mar 6, 2011)

typically to avoid the sides of tren, you want to run a 2:1 ratio of test vs tren. Gyno is possible with tren, but its induced by prolactin and not the same as gyno caused by test. Letro will def help with sides of tren, and aromasin for test. could you get away with running lower amounts of test..it depends on how prone you are, I prefer to be safe and do the 2:1


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## Machine455 (Mar 6, 2011)

vindicated346 said:


> typically to avoid the sides of tren, you want to run a 2:1 ratio of test vs tren. Gyno is possible with tren, but its induced by prolactin and not the same as gyno caused by test. Letro will def help with sides of tren, and aromasin for test. could you get away with running lower amounts of test..it depends on how prone you are, I prefer to be safe and do the 2:1


 

You're right it does aromatize into prolactin.  Best drug for preventing that by far is Pramipexole.  I was runnining tren and noticed drops of milk coming out my nipples.  Within 2 days of using pramipexole all was good.  Tren also converts into a progestin(not progesterone) which binds to progesterone receptors.  Research shows that prolactin and progesterone do not directly cause gyno, but work synergenically with estrogen to do so.  So if u block the estrogen u should be safe from gyno, and if u don't want to start breast feeding use the pramipexole.


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## GMO (Mar 6, 2011)

Yes, parmi or caber to combat progesterone sides...arimidex won't do s**t.

Everyone responds to Tren in different ways.  If I were you, I would run Tren Acetate starting at a low dose (37.5mg or so) a day, and see how it effects you.  You can bump up from there if no sides are present or they are tolerable.  Keep your test higher than Tren, but it doesn't necessarily have to be 2:1.


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## alphabolic (Mar 6, 2011)

GMO said:


> Yes, parmi or caber to combat progesterone sides...arimidex won't do s**t.
> 
> Everyone responds to Tren in different ways. If I were you, I would run Tren Acetate starting at a low dose (37.5mg or so) a day, and see how it effects you. You can bump up from there if no sides are present or they are tolerable. Keep your test higher than Tren, but it doesn't necessarily have to be 2:1.


 
yea my question was just for informational purposes. im gonna run my test prop cycle in a couple weeks which will be my first so if i ever do tren, it'll be a couple cycles down the road. i really dont care how much i have to spend as long as i get every ingredient needed for the best results and to do it right.

heck im using HCG for a 7 week prop cycle which ive been told isnt even necessary, but hey i wanna keep my gains and get the testes up and running right away. i still want aromasin for my cycle but i already bought the A-dex.

so would a good tren cycle be tren acetate at 250mg a week for weeks 1-3 and test prop at 400-500mg a week for weeks 1-8?


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## Machine455 (Mar 6, 2011)

I found a very informative article on this subject if anyone cares to read up.



Most bodybuilders are aware that estrogen can cause *gyno*




. Most steroid users are also fully aware that Trenbolone can cause gyno when taken by itself, even though it doesn???t convert to estrogen at all. How is this possible?
Two major theories of how *Trenbolone* could cause gyno symptoms have been theorized over the years. They believe that Tren causes the gyno, by directly stimulating either prolactin or progesterone receptors. Anabolic steroids Trenbolone and Deca are both progestins. Deca also converts to estrogen, but Tren does not. They are not to be confused with progesterone, but instead progestins, a type of progestogen, that can stimulate the progesterone receptor. Tren even converts to a metabolite in the body, that binds stronger to progesterone receptors than progesterone itself!
Directly increasing progesterone or prolactin doesn???t necessarily mean you will develop gyno according to research. The study (J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1988 Jan;66(1):230-2) shows that progesterone works synergistically with estrogen, to stimulate breast production. According to (Clin Biochem 2001 Nov;38(Pt 6):596-607), prolactin only has a stimulatory effect on gynecomastia in the prescence of high circulating estrogen levels. Testosterone which aromotizes to estrogen caused a cause of increased prolactin according to (Acta Endocrinol (Copenh) 1984 Feb;105(2):167-72). In the same study, Clomid (clomiphene) and Nolva (tamoxifen) showed a reduction in the man???s high levels of prolactin. There is no research evidence that I have found, that points to true breast development developing with just prolactin or progesterone alone or caused by non-aromotizing steroids, without any high circulating estrogen levels. Estrogen must be at high enough levels to work synergistically with high levels of prolactin or progesterone, to cause breast development and lactation.
Whether Tren stimulates prolactin or progesterone, without at least moderate levels of circulating estrogen at the same time in the body, Tren can???t cause full development of gyno. The real solution to curing gyno caused during a tren cycle therefore, is to take anti-estrogens, to lower circulating estrogen levels. Even if you are taking Tren by itself, you still will have a lot of estrogen circulating in your blood for a few weeks, until your natural testosterone levels shut down. Sensitive people to gyno might have to use a anti-estrogen, even when taking tren without other estrogen converting steroids, to lower natural estrogen levels in the body. 
Many bodybuilders recommend using anti-prolactin drugs Bromocriptine or Cabaser / Dostinex (both Cabaser and Dostinex contain active ingredient Cabergoline), or even RU-486 ???The abortion pill???, which is a progesterone blocker. These drugs have side effects are expensive and not commonly carried by many sources. I have heard reports from bodybuilders that bromocriptine didn???t help them, but strong anti-aromatase inhibitors like letrozole did. Therefore, it is better to use an anti-estrogen to combat tren based gyno. The only anti-estrogen I wouldn???t recommend for combatting this *gyno* is Nolva (tamoxifen) because in (J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2003 Sep;86(3-5):461-7) they found progesterone receptor expression increased, while it decreased with other anti-aromatase inhibitors.


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## colorado (Mar 6, 2011)

I personally don't buy into the 2:1 ratio. 
I am currently on 75mg EOD of Prop and 50mg ED of Tren A. I'm loving it.  The whole goal for me was to let the Tren do all of the work and to have the Test keep me "regular". I feel great. I'm strong ans hell and I have ZERO sides. 
I've also read that lowering Test doses can actually decrease Tren sides. Most people will argue this because they have only read things and never actually tried it out for themselves. 

250mg/week of test is more than enough to keep your libido raging. I let the Tren do all of the heavy lifting.


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## alphabolic (Mar 6, 2011)

colorado said:


> I personally don't buy into the 2:1 ratio.
> I am currently on 75mg EOD of Prop and 50mg ED of Tren A. I'm loving it. The whole goal for me was to let the Tren do all of the work and to have the Test keep me "regular". I feel great. I'm strong ans hell and I have ZERO sides.
> I've also read that lowering Test doses can actually decrease Tren sides. Most people will argue this because they have only read things and never actually tried it out for themselves.
> 
> 250mg/week of test is more than enough to keep your libido raging. I let the Tren do all of the heavy lifting.


 
hmmm this is interesting. now we have the other side of the spectrum coming into play here. i like it. hopefully some other tren users will chime in with some of their experiences as well. i guess we cant forget the golden rule that everyone's body reacts differently.


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## vindicated346 (Mar 6, 2011)

alphabolic said:


> hmmm this is interesting. now we have the other side of the spectrum coming into play here. i like it. hopefully some other tren users will chime in with some of their experiences as well. i guess we cant forget the golden rule that everyone's body reacts differently.



well like i said 2:1 is not written in stone, and is a case by base basis, but as stated earlier to keep it safe I use this method, but I also like a generous amount of test in my cycles, so over all it just helps simplify it for me 350mg tren/ 700-750 of test


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## colorado (Mar 6, 2011)

vindicated346 said:


> well like i said 2:1 is not written in stone, and is a case by base basis, but as stated earlier to keep it safe I use this method, but I also like a generous amount of test in my cycles, so over all it just helps simplify it for me 350mg tren/ 700-750 of test





But what are you keeping safe? I always hear people say this but they have no true explanation. 

I find that when I use higher Test levels than Tren I get very irritable and I have horrible insomnia.  I also noticed the occasional night sweats. I get NONE of these when I lower my test. If fact, I can even raise my Tren even higher than I normally would have before.  

It has honestly turned Tren cycles in to enjoyable cycles rather than the mother fuckers they used to be.


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