# natural testosterone builder?



## HugeFreak (Jun 15, 2009)

This question was prob. asked too many times but i couldnt find the answer. I'm looking for the best natural test builder, like tribulus based stacks, that really works and that contains no prohormones. I have used Probuilt Testrostrogain before and loved it but cant find it in the US. 

my goal is to gain some lean mass and increase sex drive

thx


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## nni (Jun 15, 2009)

HugeFreak said:


> This question was prob. asked too many times but i couldnt find the answer. I'm looking for the best natural test builder, like tribulus based stacks, that really works and that contains no prohormones. I have used Probuilt Testrostrogain before and loved it but cant find it in the US.
> 
> my goal is to gain some lean mass and increase sex drive
> 
> thx



tribulus doesnt boost test, so scratch things that contain that.

18+  -  Activate Xtreme, Stoked
21+  -  Activate Xtreme, Mass FX, Novedex XT etc.


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## Built (Jun 15, 2009)

Although tribulus does not increase testosterone in humans, it CAN boost sex-drive, at least, anecdotally. 

Probably won't hurt you either, and it's cheap.


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## nni (Jun 15, 2009)

maca can boost libido very well, moreso than trib from anecdotal reports. very cheap.


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## Built (Jun 15, 2009)

Oooh, good to know. What dosing, nni?


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## nni (Jun 15, 2009)

2-4 grams should give a nice boost.


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## HugeFreak (Jun 15, 2009)

thanks for the replies


Excsue my ignorance, I've never heard of Activate Xtreme, Mass FX, Novedex XT  are they 100% natural in the sense that they support the body to produce more LH or test, but do not contain anything that is transformed by the liver into hormones?


as for tribulus u guys are saying that there is no evidence it increases test levels? i guess i could buy that, even though i read somewhere that supposedly a study had been made with tribestan and had shown significant increase. I've used TestoFX recently and didnt see a difference but as i said above i have used Probuilt Testostrogain in the past and it was impressive.

i wonder if the problem is not that most brands just dont deliver the quality/quantity/concentration required for results because the plant is expansive (hence my quest to find the best brand)

i just read that maca is a plant, its only for sex drive or also for lean mass gains? any good brands?

finally a good website to order? i live in santa monica and even in venice i know several guys who could get me the real deal but to find natural products im totally at large


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## Built (Jun 15, 2009)

Hugefreak, allow me to introduce you to... PubMed Home

Search for yourself. There is no evidence anywhere in the literature that tribulus increases testosterone in humans.


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## quark (Jun 16, 2009)

I've had good luck with IM Labs Tribulus as far as increasing libido. Now this could be totally placebo effect, certainly there's that possibility, but whatever the case it works for me.


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## Built (Jun 16, 2009)

I don't think it is. Hubby's noticed this from Trib.


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## Chubby (Jun 16, 2009)

Other way to boost the test. naturally is to take supplement that will help you control the estrogen, so that way whatever test. that our body produces will stay as test and not turning into estrogen.  Am I right?


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## nni (Jun 16, 2009)

HugeFreak said:


> Excsue my ignorance, I've never heard of Activate Xtreme, Mass FX, Novedex XT  are they 100% natural in the sense that they support the body to produce more LH or test, but do not contain anything that is transformed by the liver into hormones?
> 
> 
> as for tribulus u guys are saying that there is no evidence it increases test levels? i guess i could buy that, even though i read somewhere that supposedly a study had been made with tribestan and had shown significant increase. I've used TestoFX recently and didnt see a difference but as i said above i have used Probuilt Testostrogain in the past and it was impressive.
> ...



you are correct with respect to the first paragraph. sbmuscle is a good website, now makes good products for maca. not lean mass, just libido.

as for trib, i wrote a blog entry elsewhere, here it is...

Tribulus Terrestris, The Choice of the Animal Kingdom
**Preface**The following is just my view and has nothing to do with my affiliation.****

You???ve no doubt seen an ad for a test booster comparing the effects to steroids or straight testosterone. You???ve seen the 1000000% raise in test levels promised and when you checked the label, you no doubt saw Tribulus proudly listed. Tribulus Terrestris has been the industry standard for test boosting for a long time now; but does it actually work?
It works without a doubt (if you don???t walk upright that is)! Let???s look at a sampling of studies???

1) Study of Furostenol Glycoside Fraction of Tribulus terresteris on Male Sexual Function in Rats.

Tribulus terrestris Linn. (Zygophyllaceae) has long been used in the traditional Chinese and Indian systems of medicine for the treatment of various ailments and is popularly claimed to improve sexual function in men. In this study, we have examined the aphrodisiac properties of the furostenol glycoside fraction of Tribulus terrestris extract (TT-FG) in male castrated rats. Adult Wister rats were castrated and divided into five groups of six animals each and treated with either vehicle, sildenafil (5 mg/kg, p.o.) or TT-FG (5, 10, and 25 mg/kg, p.o.) once daily for 14 days. Sexual behavioral and orientational activity was observed after acute (1 day) and subacute (7 and 14 days) treatment. Serum testosterone levels were also measured on day 14 by withdrawing blood from retroorbital plexus. The improvement in sexual behavior as noted by increase in mounting frequency (MF), intromission frequency (IF), and ejaculation latency (EL) and decrease in mounting latency (ML), intromission latency (IL), and postejaculation interval (PEI) after TT-FG treatment in castrated rats in our study implies increase in the desired component of sexuality. TT-FG was found to increase orientational activity parameters such as licking and ano-and genital grooming and decreased climbing and nongential grooming by male rats indicating increased sexual stimulation and lack of interest toward external environment after treatment with TT-FG. These results are supported by increased serum testosterone levels in male rats after 14 days of treatment by TT-FG. In conclusion, the furostenol glycoside fraction of Tribulus terrestris exhibited good aphrodisiac properties.

2) Aphrodisiac properties of Tribulus Terrestris extract (Protodioscin) in normal and castrated rats.

Tribulus terrestris (TT) has long been used in the traditional Chinese and Indian systems of medicine for the treatment of various ailments and is popularly claimed to improve sexual functions in man. Sexual behaviour and intracavernous pressure (ICP) were studied in both normal and castrated rats to further understand the role of TT containing protodioscin (PTN) as an aphrodisiac. Adult Sprague-Dawley rats were divided into five groups of 8 each that included distilled water treated (normal and castrated), testosterone treated (normal and castrated, 10 mg/kg body weight, subcutaneously, bi-weekly) and TT treated (castrated, 5 mg/kg body weight, orally once daily). Decreases in body weight, prostate weight and ICP were observed among the castrated groups of rats compared to the intact group. There was an overall reduction in the sexual behaviour parameters in the castrated groups of rats as reflected by decrease in mount and intromission frequencies (MF and IF) and increase in mount, intromission, ejaculation latencies (ML, IL, EL) as well as post-ejaculatory interval (PEI). Compared to the castrated control, treatment of castrated rats (with either testosterone or TT extract) showed increase in prostate weight and ICP that were statistically significant. There was also a mild to moderate improvement of the sexual behaviour parameters as evidenced by increase in MF and IF; decrease in ML, IL and PEI. These results were statistically significant. It is concluded that TT extract appears to possess aphrodisiac activity probably due to androgen increasing property of TT (observed in our earlier study on primates).

3) The hormonal effects of Tribulus  terrestris and its role in the management of male erectile dysfunction ??? an evaluation using primates, rabbit and rat

Hormonal effects of  Tribulus  terrestris (TT) were evaluated in primates, rabbit and rat to identify its usefulness in the management of erectile dysfunction (ED). TT extract was administered intravenously, as a bolus dose of 7.5, 15 and 30 mg/kg, in primates for acute study. Rabbits and normal rats were treated with 2.5, 5 and 10 mg/kg of TT extract orally for 8 weeks, for chronic study. In addition, castrated rats were treated either with testosterone cypionate (10 mg/kg, subcutaneously; biweekly for 8 weeks) or TT orally (5 mg/kg daily for 8 weeks). Blood samples were analyzed for testosterone (T), dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate (DHEAS) levels using radioimmunoassay. In primates, the increases in T (52%), DHT (31%) and DHEAS (29%) at 7.5 mg/kg were statistically significant. In rabbits, both T and DHT were increased compared to control, however, only the increases in DHT (by 30% and 32% at 5 and 10 mg/kg) were statistically significant. In castrated rats, increases in T levels by 51% and 25% were observed with T and TT extract respectively that were statistically significant. TT increases some of the sex hormones, possibly due to the presence of protodioscin in the extract. TT may be useful in mild to moderate cases of ED.

Wow, that is some pretty compelling evidence. Now like I said, this is a sample of the studies available, so let???s look at them. In study 1, castrated rats not only received a boost in libido, but a boost in test levels, awesome! In study 2, Tribulus showed a possible androgen increasing property in rats, woohoo! In 3, primates, rabbit and rats, (oh my), all received an increase in test levels, and it was possibly due to protodioscin, (more on that later). This is all amazing, that is if you are a rat, a castrated rat, a rabbit, or a ???primate.??? Yes humans are primates, but not the ones used for testing. I am assuming that humans are reading this, so let???s see how some humans fared???

4) The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men.

Abstract: objective:: The aim of the current study is to investigate the influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on androgen metabolism in young males. Design and methods:: Twenty-one healthy young 20???36 years old men with body weight ranging from 60 to 125kg were randomly separated into three groups???two experimental (each n =7) and a control (placebo) one (n =7). The experimental groups were named TT1 and TT2 and the subjects were assigned to consume 20 and 10mg/kg body weight per day of Tribulus terrestris extract, respectively, separated into three daily intakes for 4 weeks. Testosterone, androstenedione and luteinizing hormone levels in the serum were measured 24h before supplementation (clear probe), and at 24, 72, 240, 408 and 576h from the beginning of the supplementation. Results:: There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean±S.D.: 15.75±1.75nmol/l); TT2 (mean±S.D.: 16.32±1.57nmol/l); controls (mean±S.D.: 17.74±1.09nmol/l) (p >0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean±S.D.: 1.927±0.126ng/ml); TT2 (mean±S.D.: 2.026±0.256ng/ml); controls (mean±S.D.: 1.952±0.236ng/ml) (p >0.05)) or luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean±S.D.: 4.662±0.274U/l); TT2 (mean±S.D.: 4.103±0.869U/l); controls (mean±S.D.: 4.170±0.406U/l) (p >0.05)) levels. All results were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-increasing properties. The study will be extended in the clarifying the probable mode of action of Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins.

5) THE EFFECT OF FIVE WEEKS OF TRIBULUS TERRESTRIS SUPPLEMENTATION ON MUSCLE STRENGTH AND BODY COMPOSITION DURING PRESEASON TRAINING IN ELITE RUGBY LEAGUE PLAYERS.

Tribulus terrestris is an herbal nutritional supplement that is promoted to produce large gains in strength and lean muscle mass in 5-28 days (15, 18). Although some manufacturers claim T. terrestris will not lead to a positive drug test, others have suggested that T. terrestris may increase the urinary testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio, which may place athletes at risk of a positive drug test. The purpose of the study was to determine the effect of T. terrestris on strength, fat free mass, and the urinary T/E ratio during 5 weeks of preseason training in elite rugby league players. Twenty-two Australian elite male rugby league players (mean ± SD; age = 19.8 ± 2.9 years; weight = 88.0 ± 9.5 kg) were match-paired and randomly assigned in a double-blind manner to either a T. terrestris (n = 11) or placebo (n = 11) group. All subjects performed structured heavy resistance training as part of the club???s preseason preparations. A T. terrestris extract (450 mg?d-1) or placebo capsules were consumed once daily for 5 weeks. Muscular strength, body composition, and the urinary T/E ratio were monitored prior to and after supplementation. After 5 weeks of training, strength and fat free mass increased significantly without any between-group differences. No between-group differences were noted in the urinary T/E ratio. It was concluded that T. terrestris did not produce the large gains in strength or lean muscle mass that many manufacturers claim can be experienced within 5-28 days. Furthermore, T. terrestris did not alter the urinary T/E ratio and would not place an athlete at risk of testing positive based on the World Anti-Doping Agency???s urinary T/E ratio limit of 4:1.

6) The Effects of Tribulus Terrestris on Body Composition and Exercise Performance in Resistance-Trained Males.

The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of the herbal preparation Tribulus terrestris (tribulus) on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males. Fifteen subjects were randomly assigned to a placebo or tribulus (3.21 mg per kg body weight daily) group. Body weight, body composition, maximal strength, dietary intake, and mood states were determined before and after an 8-week exercise (periodized resistance training) and supplementation period. There were no changes in body weight, percentage fat, total body water, dietary intake, or mood states in either group. Muscle endurance (determined by the maximal number of repetitions at 100Ð200% of body weight) increased for the bench and leg press exercises in the placebo group (p < .05; bench press ±28.4%, leg press ±28.6%), while the tribulus group experienced an increase in leg press strength only (bench press ±3.1%, not significant; leg press ±28.6%, p < .05). Supplementation with tribulus does not enhance body composition or exercise performance in resistance-trained males.

Wait a minute, what the hell just happened? We were just breeding super rats and rabbits, although honestly it???s hard to breed castrated rats, and now in humans, nothing. In study 4, no change in test???.WHAT!? In study 5, no extra mass and no change in test???. WHAT!? In study 6, no change in strength with respect to placebo???. WHAT!?

Well what happened? It seems that the behavior of Tribulus Terrestris in animals cannot be replicated in humans, and that???s ok. This type of thing happens all the time, it???s part of the research process. You find a compound that has a desired effect in rats, you move onto rabbits, primates etc. If that is promising you move onto humans, if that is promising, rejoice! If it is not, you ditch it and move on. So why didn???t we ditch Tribulus and move on? Well, placebo apparently has a price tag to it, and it sells well.

Now earlier I mentioned protodioscin, and this has become a common excuse heard from fans of Tribulus. ???The studies didn???t focus on protodioscin, and that is what actually works in trib.??? People say the same thing for saponins, but these arguments lack logic. If these are the magical components of Tribulus that work, wouldn???t there be a result in humans then? I mean, sure it isn???t standardized for that specifically, but it is still present and should be exerting an effect, no? Shouldn???t there be the slightest effect, which would urge us on to find out what the slight boost is coming from? No? Is it so magical that it doesn???t even show up to the study unless it is the focus? Well this certainly is a special compound, it might be the diva of test boosters. You???re not buying this are you, well neither am I.

The science seems to suggest that trib works in animals, but not in humans, any arguments beyond that are either extremely wishful thinking or outright deception. If you have a castrated rat and want him to the baddest asexual rodent in the neighborhood, then load him up on Tribulus and watch him get ???swole.??? In the off chance that you might be a human being, you might want to avoid Tribulus Terrestris if you want to boost testosterone levels. 





chobby192 said:


> Other way to boost the test. naturally is to take supplement that will help you control the estrogen, so that way whatever test. that our body produces will stay as test and not turning into estrogen.  Am I right?



you are kind of right, what it does is more or less suppress the estrogen  levels to confuse your body to produce more test for conversion. the conversion is blocked so the test stays elevated. that is extremely simplified.


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## T_man (Jun 16, 2009)

I need something that reduces my sex drive. damn.


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## Perdido (Jun 16, 2009)

T_man said:


> I need something that reduces my sex drive. damn.



Marriage>>>kids>>>bills>>>work>>>death.

Simple progressive systematic but effective decline.


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## HugeFreak (Jun 16, 2009)

so whats a good _product/brand_ of oestrogen reducer? after having read a few studies, I have absolutly no fate in just comparing labels of say saw palmetto and taking the one with highest content. they apparently fail badly to deliver whats on the label. 

thanks to Built i found about pubmed home. is it supposed to contain a large % of the medical litterature? so yesterday i read the abstracts used by nni (and a few others on the that site). this is indeed contradictory, and i dont know what to think of all that. with all due respect, however, i really dont think the difference in these studies is humans vs animals. humans and primates are genetically almost the same, much more than primates vs rabbits and rats. 

as for sex drive, i feel like T_man often, and I'm nowhere near the libido killers that rahaas point out (im even scared to have a girlfriend! hahah) I'm coming to realize that my problem is really stupid, but  i cant seem to control it. every now and then my libido goes through the roof, and then combined with stress (like a major professional exam) i fall into total incontrollable hypersexuality and jerk off like a nymphomaniac schizophrenic for hours (like up to 12+ hours daily)  as the exam comes closer. its a total miracle that i pass the exams, but once they are over I hit clubs to celebrate and i meet girls easily but my boner isnt the boner i had 2 weeks earlier  i should really ban porn from my life. i actually once discussed that with a doctor and he said it looked like i have kleine-levin syndrome but without the depression. his suggestions basically boiled down to trying to become a pussy and learn to "open my heart and be vulnerable" well he can go f$%k himself. anyway in the mean time i just want to jump (re)start my potency for the summer, and add some lean mass for the pool parties.  

if you were to choose one, Activate Xtreme, Mass FX, Stoked or Novedex XT?


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## HugeFreak (Jun 16, 2009)

i meant chrysin not saw palmetto in my reply (that is waiting to be approved?)


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## egodog48 (Jun 17, 2009)

I am going to give someone the opportunity to run an Anabolic Edge/Paravol stack.  See other thread I will post in a minute.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Jun 17, 2009)

heavy squats and deads....if that fails try hooking up with a young hot girl and see if that doesn't do it for you ^^


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## nkira (Jun 18, 2009)

Just watch some porn....


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## johnnyrock100 (Feb 19, 2010)

Hi I was wondering the same thing.....so what did you find was the best test booster?


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## T_man (Feb 19, 2010)

I found exercising regularly to actually boost my sex drive, and increase my lean gains during bulk plateaus. You should try it.

But atm I'm using Activate Xtreme running 4-6 caps a day and I don't know much for the sex drive but I'm definately partitioning better and my strength gains are through the roof. Bench, Squats, Deadlifts have gone up 25lbs, 45lbs & 60lbs already respectively. Deadlifts gone up so well it's scary, I just need to work on grip strength to improve it.


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## klc9100 (Feb 20, 2010)

ZMA

_A recent study showed that zinc in the form of zinc monomethionine aspartate combined with magnesium aspartate and Vitamin B-6 (pyridoxine) when given to training athletes resulted in 43.7% higher testosterone levels and 25% greater IGF-1 levels, as well as a 2.5 times greater strength increase than a placebo group._
_ - from bodybuilding.com -_


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## Built (Feb 20, 2010)

BB.com isn't a reliable citation. Find the study they're citing on pubmed and link that one, please.


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## nni (Feb 20, 2010)

T_man said:


> I found exercising regularly to actually boost my sex drive, and increase my lean gains during bulk plateaus. You should try it.
> 
> But atm I'm using Activate Xtreme running 4-6 caps a day and I don't know much for the sex drive but I'm definately partitioning better and my strength gains are through the roof. Bench, Squats, Deadlifts have gone up 25lbs, 45lbs & 60lbs already respectively. Deadlifts gone up so well it's scary, I just need to work on grip strength to improve it.



great to hear!



klc9100 said:


> ZMA
> 
> _A recent study showed that zinc in the form of zinc monomethionine aspartate combined with magnesium aspartate and Vitamin B-6 (pyridoxine) when given to training athletes resulted in 43.7% higher testosterone levels and 25% greater IGF-1 levels, as well as a 2.5 times greater strength increase than a placebo group._
> _ - from bodybuilding.com -_



"ZMA is totally ineffective, say German sports scientists in an article published in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition. The researchers tested a couple of bottles of SNAC System???s ZMA from the bodybuilding.com webshop.
...
The Germans then monitored the concentration of androgens in the blood their subjects for 56 days. The results are shown below. The white bars represent the testosterone level of the test subjects in the placebo group. The grey bars represent the testosterone level of the test subjects in the ZMA group.
Effect: nada.
When the researchers measured the concentrations of a series of natural androgens in the test subjects' urine the story was pretty much the same. The concentrations are listed in the table, but not in straightforward milligrams, as the figures have undergone statistical processing. But the message is clear. ZMA does not raise the androgen level. If anything, it appears to lower it a little. "

Study: ZMA does not raise testosterone levels


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## klc9100 (Feb 20, 2010)

Built said:


> BB.com isn't a reliable citation. Find the study they're citing on pubmed and link that one, please.


 
i wasn't quoting it as truth. i just remembered reading the article a while back and thought the OP may find it interesting.

here is the link:
Bodybuilding.com - ZMA - What Does It Do? - Jason Big J Waltrip

i've never used it personally, so i don't know if it works or not.


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## Built (Feb 20, 2010)

Ah, gotcha. You can read a lot of crap on the internet. I remember reading about how avocados were higher in protein than steak a while back... <rolls eyes>


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## johnnyrock100 (Feb 20, 2010)

So activate extreme is the best t booster out there on the market???


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## forciano (Feb 22, 2010)

Active extreme looks like very interesting, but I have never used any similar products.
I have a couple of questions to be sure I'm safe using this product. 
This is a natural test booster so I wont have any side effects if I follow the required dosage?
And would you guys use it while cutting with a keto diet?

Thanks in advance


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## forciano (Feb 22, 2010)

Well after less than 5 mins of doing some searchs I found the answer to all my questions, lol


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## Will Brink (Feb 23, 2010)

HugeFreak said:


> This question was prob. asked too many times but i couldnt find the answer. I'm looking for the best natural test builder, like tribulus based stacks, *that really works* and that contains no prohormones. I have used Probuilt Testrostrogain before and loved it but cant find it in the US.



Testosterone boosters, the movie:






YouTube Video











Extensive article on the topic:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articles/the-facts-on-testosterone-boosting-supplements/


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## nkira (Feb 24, 2010)

So there's no such thing as Testosterone booster? (other than roids)

What is the final verdict here?


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## Will Brink (Feb 24, 2010)

nkira said:


> So there's no such thing as Testosterone booster? (other than roids)
> 
> What is the final verdict here?



Read article I posted URL to, decide for yourself.


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## quark (Feb 24, 2010)

Good article Will, really helps to put things in perspective.


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## Will Brink (Feb 24, 2010)

jchappj said:


> Good article Will, really helps to put things in perspective.



The vid is for the lazy who don't wanna read, the article is for those who really want the details. Lots of pissed off people (as expected...) over that article.


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## nni (Feb 24, 2010)

ive had my own test levels checked and found a rise in test levels. there have also been many cases of blood backed rises in test levels from several product. there are compounds and products that will raise free and total test levels. many of these are also backed by science. to say none exist is simply untrue. to say most do nothing, is a decent comment that i can back.


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## Will Brink (Feb 24, 2010)

nni said:


> ive had my own test levels checked and found a rise in test levels. there have also been many cases of blood backed rises in test levels from several product.



(1) T levels go up and down all the time. (2) That's why you need blood work done at specific intervals, specific times, etc, in a large enough group to be SS. (3) lookin at naked women, etc, etc will raise T also. Thus, your above comments carry no weight from an objective science based perspective.



nni said:


> there are compounds and products that will raise free and total test levels. many of these are also backed by science.



Usually VERY poor science, or no science. If you know science, the term "backed by science" is meaningless. You have to read the studies (not just the abstracts...) and know what you are reading. 



nni said:


> to say none exist is simply untrue. to say most do nothing, is a decent comment that i can back.



I support my conclusions with the known facts as they exist. If anyone wishes to supply actual counter support, in the form of real data, by all means, do so. 

As I said, a few compounds might* have some effects on T*, none have ever been shown to raise T high enough and or long enough to actually do anything for why they are used: *changes in bodycomp and or strength.*

Thems the facts. 

* = The next big T booster supp that will probably be all the rage shortly is D-aspartic acid (DAC). Unlike most others, "on paper" DAC appears moderately effective, but again, whether it does jack sh&% for the end points that matter, remains to be seen:

Background

D-aspartic acid is an amino acid present in neuroendocrine tissues of invertebrates and vertebrates, including rats and humans. Here we investigated the effect of this amino acid on the release of LH and testosterone in the serum of humans and rats. Furthermore, we investigated the role of D-aspartate in the synthesis of LH and testosterone in the pituitary and testes of rats, and the molecular mechanisms by which this amino acid triggers its action.
Methods

For humans: A group of 23 men were given a daily dose of D-aspartate (DADAVIT®) for 12 days, whereas another group of 20 men were given a placebo. For rats: A group of 10 rats drank a solution of either 20 mM D-aspartate or a placebo for 12 days. Then LH and testosterone accumulation was determined in the serum and D-aspartate accumulation in tissues. The effects of D-aspartate on the synthesis of LH and testosterone were gauged on isolated rat pituitary and Leydig cells. Tissues were incubated with D-aspartate, and then the concentration (synthesis) of LH and cGMP in the pituitary and of testosterone and cAMP in the Leydig cells was determined.

Results

In humans and rats, sodium D-aspartate induces an enhancement of LH and testosterone release. In the rat pituitary, sodium D-aspartate increases the release and synthesis of LH through the involvement of cGMP as a second messenger, whereas in rat testis Leydig cells, it increases the synthesis and release of testosterone and cAMP is implicated as second messenger. In the pituitary and in testes D-Asp is synthesized by a D-aspartate racemase which convert L-Asp into D-Asp. The pituitary and testes possesses a high capacity to trapping circulating D-Asp from hexogen or endogen sources.

Conclusion

D-aspartic acid is a physiological amino acid occurring principally in the pituitary gland and testes and has a role in the regulation of the release and synthesis of LH and testosterone in humans and rats.


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## nni (Feb 24, 2010)

im well aware of that one. but again, tests taken at the same time on the same day of the week in 4 week intervals is conclusive enough for me. so i disagree with that, and much of the science is credible enough to be taken. to assume that everything will be tested in humans is to assume a lot. as for a rise enough for gain in mass, that i can agree with. i simply do not agree that none exist and are useless (and i do read the full studies).


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## Will Brink (Feb 24, 2010)

nni said:


> much of the science is credible enough to be taken..



Supply a study. A double blind in vivo study using trained weight lifters published in a legit journal  I can't rip apart in seconds flat.


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## T_man (Feb 24, 2010)

WillBrink said:


> (3) lookin at naked women, etc, etc will raise T also. Thus, your above comments carry no weight from an objective science based perspective.


So basically watching porn is better than buying these products?


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## Will Brink (Feb 24, 2010)

T_man said:


> So basically watching porn is better than buying these products?



Depending on the product, yes. Again, see link in article. Listening to sports cars also raises T. Enough to increase LBM or strength? Of course not....


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## nni (Feb 24, 2010)

WillBrink said:


> Supply a study. A double blind in vivo study using trained weight lifters published in a legit journal  I can't rip apart in seconds flat.



sure, let me go ask scientists why they didnt go from a promising rat study to a human study yet. the absence of a human study doesnt mean something will not work, it just means there is a need for further research. if you can do multiple sets of hormone panels with that compound, before and after, and you see an increase, there is more than enough to suggest that it works. to say that it isnt enough to convince YOU, then fine, to say that is still doesnt work is just ignoring information to suit your view. there are studies that show creatine mono and beta alanine to be worthless, yet we still count them as staples. you can rip apart anything if you want to, doesnt mean you are right.



T_man said:


> So basically watching porn is better than buying these products?



in will's opinion, yes. key word being opinion.


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## Stoner1 (Feb 24, 2010)

Long time reader first time poster. Seems the only way I've read to increase test is to get the real stuff... I'm not sure I would trust the web sites that have it available, but there are links to them on this site. Also from what I read you need to be fairly well off financialy to afford to run a test cycle. Just my .02


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## nni (Feb 24, 2010)

Stoner1 said:


> Long time reader first time poster. Seems the only way I've read to increase test is to get the real stuff... I'm not sure I would trust the web sites that have it available, but there are links to them on this site. Also from what I read you need to be fairly well off financialy to afford to run a test cycle. Just my .02



not at all. the only way to absolutely guarantee a rise in test is to take test, but you are going to have to deal with shutdown and pct, (so its a rise, but more a replacement). there are products that will boost your test without introducing exogenous hormones into your system, but the results will not compare to  the other option.


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## Will Brink (Feb 25, 2010)

nni said:


> sure, let me go ask scientists



I am a scientist and "ask" them about such things all the time as I deal with the the scientific/medical community.



nni said:


> why they didnt go from a promising rat study to a human study yet. the absence of a human study doesnt mean something will not work, it just means there is a need for further research. if you can do multiple sets of hormone panels with that compound, before and after, and you see an increase, there is more than enough to suggest that it works. to say that it isnt enough to convince YOU, then fine, to say that is still doesnt work is just ignoring information to suit your view. there are studies that show creatine mono and beta alanine to be worthless, yet we still count them as staples. you can rip apart anything if you want to, doesnt mean you are right.



You said: "much of the science is credible enough to be taken.."

I asked for a single study. You supplied nadda. 

You didn't disprove with your dance above. The reason you didn't is, because not you or anyone else can do it, due to the fact it does not exist. The "science" is neither credible or robust enough to justify the claims made by sellers or anyone bothering using them. I have been published in peer reviewed journals, done product development/RnD for major supp companies, etc, etc. How about you?

It's your money, I just report the facts as they exist. 

Good luck.


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## T_man (Feb 25, 2010)

I've been taking activate xtreme for a week and a half. My temper has been cut significantly, my sleep is deeper, my sex drive is like in overdrive it's too much, my strength is through the roof, been breaking records this whole past week too. I have alot more energy and competitiveness now. If thats not a sign of increased test, and even if it isn't increased test, whatever is happening is good.


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## nni (Feb 25, 2010)

WillBrink said:


> I am a scientist and "ask" them about such things all the time as I deal with the the scientific/medical community.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



why do i have to prove it? you and i both have read the same studies that show compounds boosting test. you want double blind human trials and we both know those are rare. prehaps the novedex study, but im sure youll poke holes in that because it goes against your opinion. basically you have made up your mind and published it in your blog, to change your mind know would be foolish so to try to convince you is a complete waste of time. 

i have done r&d and am close friends with the r&d people from major supp companies. good enough?

sorry for disagreeing with you.



T_man said:


> I've been taking activate xtreme for a week and a half. My temper has been cut significantly, my sleep is deeper, my sex drive is like in overdrive it's too much, my strength is through the roof, been breaking records this whole past week too. I have alot more energy and competitiveness now. If thats not a sign of increased test, and even if it isn't increased test, whatever is happening is good.



great to hear!


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## Will Brink (Feb 25, 2010)

nni said:


> why do i have to prove it?



You made a statement. I asked you to back it up. You didn't. The rest of your comments simply confirm to me you lack the required background and objectivity  for the conversation at hand. You stick to 'bro science' I'll stick to the actual science.

Good luck.


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## nni (Feb 25, 2010)

WillBrink said:


> You made a statement. I asked you to back it up. You didn't. The rest of your comments simply confirm to me you lack the required background and objectivity  for the conversation at hand. You stick to 'bro science' I'll stick to the actual science.
> 
> Good luck.



alright, will, lets think for a second. you are the one saying all of the science that exists for test boosters and test boosting compounds is bunk. you are the one saying my own personal hormone panels and the others that i have seen are bunk, yet I have to back up my statement? no will, you have to prove it, and your article dances around it. the only thing that you show with any type of backing or explanation is that an otc test booster might not boost levels high enough to have an impact on body mass. that's all. 

you say the research is dubious, yet dont prove it or discuss it. you say they are taken out of context, yet dont prove it. you have shown nothing, you have proved nothing. its all an attention grabber. so will, prove it. turning it back on someone who disagrees with your attention grabbing article is not how you prove YOUR STANCE. with all of your writing, maybe you should be familiar with how to disprove something. you know, you have to go beyond saying, 

oh, and i mentioned the novedex xt study in passing, a double blind published study on an otc test booster. beyond that, you seem to agree that these compounds do boost test, you say as much, yet you are arguing with me. which is it, they dont boost test or they do?


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## Stoner1 (Feb 25, 2010)

T_man said:


> I've been taking activate xtreme for a week and a half. My temper has been cut significantly, my sleep is deeper, my sex drive is like in overdrive it's too much, my strength is through the roof, been breaking records this whole past week too. I have alot more energy and competitiveness now. If thats not a sign of increased test, and even if it isn't increased test, whatever is happening is good.



I tried 1 bottle of the Stoked last summer, I saw some strenth gains nothing thru the roof. I do agree that I slept better. I think it and Activate are the same compound.


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## nni (Feb 25, 2010)

Stoner1 said:


> I tried 1 bottle of the Stoked last summer, I saw some strenth gains nothing thru the roof. I do agree that I slept better. I think it and Activate are the same compound.



one in common, thats all.


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## fredlabrute (Feb 26, 2010)

*Natural t booster*

Novedex XT and Halodrol Mt by gaspari nutition, Formadrol Extreme by LG sciences and Super Test by the Beast Sports Nutrition all very good choices. Animal Stak and M-Stak, Animal Test by Universal are also very excellent and complete test booster supplement.


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## Rucker (Apr 15, 2010)

Testosterone Conversion Factor-1 is sodium D-aspartate which can raise total testosterone 42% in 12 days.  We just released it yesterday, but it's on sale for 30% off for the next week, only $20.97.


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## NJ-Surfer (Apr 15, 2010)

Rucker said:


> Testosterone Conversion Factor-1 is sodium D-aspartate which can raise total testosterone 42% in 12 days.  We just released it yesterday, but it's on sale for 30% off for the next week, only $20.97.



Can't I just drink some Diet Coke and save the $20.97 for something more productive.

*Upon ingestion, aspartame breaks down into natural residual components, including aspartic acid. The term "aspartic acid" refers to either of two forms or a mixture of two.[2] Of these two forms, only one, "L-aspartic acid", is directly incorporated into amino acids. The biological roles of its counterpart, "D-aspartic acid" are more limited. Where enzymatic synthesis will produce one or the other, most chemical syntheses will produce both forms, "DL-aspartic acid".*


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## Rucker (Apr 15, 2010)

NJ-Surfer said:


> Can't I just drink some Diet Coke and save the $20.97 for something more productive.
> 
> *Upon ingestion, aspartame breaks down into natural residual components, including aspartic acid. The term "aspartic acid" refers to either of two forms or a mixture of two.[2] Of these two forms, only one, "L-aspartic acid", is directly incorporated into amino acids. The biological roles of its counterpart, "D-aspartic acid" are more limited. Where enzymatic synthesis will produce one or the other, most chemical syntheses will produce both forms, "DL-aspartic acid".*



And you can get protein from Doritos, but that might not be the healthiest way to go about it.


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## nni (Apr 15, 2010)

NJ-Surfer said:


> Can't I just drink some Diet Coke and save the $20.97 for something more productive.
> 
> *Upon ingestion, aspartame breaks down into natural residual components, including aspartic acid. The term "aspartic acid" refers to either of two forms or a mixture of two.[2] Of these two forms, only one, "L-aspartic acid", is directly incorporated into amino acids. The biological roles of its counterpart, "D-aspartic acid" are more limited. Where enzymatic synthesis will produce one or the other, most chemical syntheses will produce both forms, "DL-aspartic acid".*



simply, no. you will shit your brains out before you get the dosage you need.

just a heads up, some of the few consumer DAA products were tested and were not found to be pure (was actually DL-aspartic and "DL -aspartic is very cheap and only consists of 50% D-aspartic acid"). this is an excellent compound with great promise, but not easy to get. i will be waiting for third party confirmation before i invest money into it.


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## Rucker (Apr 15, 2010)

nni said:


> simply, no. you will shit your brains out before you get the dosage you need.
> 
> just a heads up, some of the few consumer DAA products were tested and were not found to be pure (was actually DL-aspartic and "DL -aspartic is very cheap and only consists of 50% D-aspartic acid"). this is an excellent compound with great promise, but not easy to get. i will be waiting for third party confirmation before i invest money into it.



How about this;

http://www.primordialperformance.com/cofa/coa_d_aspartic_acid.pdf


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## NJ-Surfer (Apr 16, 2010)

nni said:


> simply, no. you will shit your brains out before you get the dosage you need.
> 
> just a heads up, some of the few consumer DAA products were tested and were not found to be pure (was actually DL-aspartic and "DL -aspartic is very cheap and only consists of 50% D-aspartic acid"). this is an excellent compound with great promise, but not easy to get. i will be waiting for third party confirmation before i invest money into it.



It was a joke. My point is there is no conclusive data that shows aspartic acid does anything to increase lean body mass. Just another snake oil that someone will formulate into some bullshit delivery system to make a quick buck. I'll stick with Diet Coke


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## NJ-Surfer (Apr 16, 2010)

Rucker said:


> How about this;
> 
> http://www.primordialperformance.com/cofa/coa_d_aspartic_acid.pdf



What exactly are you trying to show here? Neither specific rotation nor IR will tell you anything about the purity of the compound. You could pass both of these tests with material that is 80% pure. You need to run GC or HPLC if you want to demonstrate the purity which I see in the reference section but no supporting data. Also, the storage conditions are -20C which makes me wonder if there are stability issues.


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## Rucker (Apr 16, 2010)

A CofA was requested, a CofA was provided.


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## nni (Apr 16, 2010)

NJ-Surfer said:


> It was a joke. My point is there is no conclusive data that shows aspartic acid does anything to increase lean body mass. Just another snake oil that someone will formulate into some bullshit delivery system to make a quick buck. I'll stick with Diet Coke



its a very promising compound for test boosters. the thing is, test and related illicit compounds are the only thing that has some sort of guarantee (i use that loosely) for mass gains, but the otc test boosters that work, certainly help.


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## Rucker (Apr 17, 2010)

Rucker said:


> Testosterone Conversion Factor-1 is sodium D-aspartate which can raise total testosterone 42% in 12 days.  We just released it yesterday, but it's on sale for 30% off for the next week, only $20.97.



Sustain Alpha in either version is also a great way to boost libido, Love this stuff.

With the current sale:
40% off Sustain Alpha, now only $29.97
25% off Sustain Alpha Liqua-Vade now only $37.46


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## Count Iblis (Apr 21, 2010)

There is some evidence that tribulus extract increases libido and erectile function. Certain herbs like epimedium, cordyceps, eurycoma and some ginsenosides can increase testosterone. Curculigo ia an aphrodisiac that may increase testosterone. Maca and Damiana do not increase testosterone but may increase libido.
As for porn it is in fact a great way to increase testosterone.


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## benjani1 (Dec 22, 2010)

slight problem with maca is that it also raises cortisol levels . any one else have this problem , when on trib i start to smell bad . anyone else av dis ? also when on maca WAS horny all the time  but woke wit morning sickness which i laterfound out was a symtom of excessive estro


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## benjani1 (Dec 22, 2010)

Rastafarhia!!!!!!!!!


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## Culbert (Dec 23, 2010)

i do not think  any supplement increase both capabilities so try to find and mix two product to gain your goal


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## Alenjacks (Dec 23, 2010)

Hello , nice information. Natural supplements for testosterone are really beneficial and these are not having any side effects. It will also make your body fit and attractive.


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## PushAndPull (Dec 23, 2010)

Alenjacks said:


> Hello , nice information. Natural supplements for testosterone are really beneficial and these are not having any side effects. It will also make your body fit and attractive.



Nice sales pitch bot 
Your home page 
Low Testosterone | Low Testosterone Treatment - Xenesis


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## PushAndPull (Dec 23, 2010)

benjani1 said:


> Rastafarhia!!!!!!!!!



Douchebag


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## johnnyrock100 (Jan 28, 2011)

Would any know what would be a good stack to achieve a significant raise in T levels? Any one know anything about a product TestoPro from AI Sports Nutrition?


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## ryansm (Jan 28, 2011)

^^^I haven't taken it, but have heard good things. TCF-1(DAA) is great for boosting testosterone


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