# An inexpensive OTC (/grey area) anti-depressant stack



## Dante B. (Nov 27, 2003)

1) Deprynl/selegiline HCL: 5-20 mgs per day.

The average cost for the generic selegiline HCL is 50 cents per 5 mg tablet. It's a selective MAO-B inhibitor (prevents the reuptake of dopamine and phenylethylamine/PEA). However, at higher doses it's no longer selective, then functioning as an MAO-A inhibitor as well.

It may also sensitize the response to catecholamines (e.g. norepinephrine). It's also good snorted on the occasion.

This can be purchased on the various online pharmacy sites, as it's a prescription (but non-scheduled) medication (except in Japan).

2) DLPA (DL-phenylalanine). Very inexpensive if purchased in powdered form (~8 dollars for 100 grams). Use several grams per day on an empty stomach.

The L isomer is a precursor to Tyrosine, as well as PEA (hence the synergy with Deprynl). The D isomer is also an enkephalinase inhibitor, although it cannot covert to tyrosine. However, it does covert to PEA through another pathway.

Optional

3) Chocamine: Several grams per day. The powder can be purchased for about ~12 dollars for 100 grams. It's a pure cocoa extract, so it's a natural source of caffeine as well as PEA (the "happy drug" in pure chocolate).

However, PEA is rapidly degraded by MAO-B, which is why it's wonderful with Deprynl.

4) Ephedrine HCL: 25-50 mgs per day. Vasopro EHCL is also incredibly cost-effective.

5) Tyrosine: Several grams per day on an empty stomach.


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## Mudge (Nov 27, 2003)

Anxiety sucks too.


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## Dante B. (Nov 29, 2003)

Indeed, as I've had my share of issues.

5HTP can help, OTC-wise. I'm also fond of forskolin as an anxiolytic.


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## Mudge (Nov 29, 2003)

Malevolent Creation 

Have you ever tried Ginkgo Biloba in quanity, or St Johns? Johns worked for me once and never again, despite using the same brand or various others.

Ginkgo seems to help, but mainly it gives me wicked recall, I do about 4x standard dose.


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## Dante B. (Nov 29, 2003)

Years ago. I can't say that I noticed anything, however, I was also taking too many damn substances concurrently.

I wouldn't use St John's again, as it actives the cytochrome P450 pathway. As for nootropics, I do like ALCAR, DMAE, and piracetam. Deprynl is also classified as a nootropic (although one should avoid this one if they're prone to anxiety).

At this point, I'm struggling with apathy, not anxiety, so the drug(s) fit the condition.

Have you heard of, or tried Ergopharm's GabaTropin? Feedback thus far is mixed, but I'm absolutely enamored of it. Positive response has come mainly from those who are prone to anxiety and stress.

http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=6605&

Although not (generally) anxious, I'm incredibly tense, and GT loves me like nothing else (legal). But again, going by the initial feedback, anyone who is looking for a good time is going to be sorely disappointed. If you're the type of person who can barely think straight because the hammer of stress is incessantly pounding the sanity out of you, you'll probably enjoy it quite a bit.


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## heeholler (Nov 29, 2003)

Wow, that is so me what you just posted about not being able to think straight because of stress [work related].
All this can be bought legally over the internet? Which sites? If this really helps with stress I got to try it.


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## Dante B. (Nov 29, 2003)

Well, for stress, I'd avoid my initial stack.

Gabatropin, as well as ALCAR and forskolin can be found on many online sites, including 1Fast400.

In addition to Phenibut, GT also contains rhodiola, which some have found helpful for stress. That too can be found on 1Fast's site in bulk.


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## Dante B. (Nov 29, 2003)

Also, don't forget meditation, and good music


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## Mudge (Nov 29, 2003)

About the only negative thing about Johns that I'm aware is it kills the effectiveness of many medications.

Most of my issues are social anxiety, which gets worse the more out of touch with people I get, so I try to stay in the mix somewhat.


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## heeholler (Nov 29, 2003)

Thanks for the info! All this is informative to me here.


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## Dante B. (Nov 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> About the only negative thing about Johns that I'm aware is it kills the effectiveness of many medications.



Because of CYP450  Depending on what supplements and drugs you're using, it may be wise to avoid it.

I stay out of the mix and I rarely have the problems I once had. Mainly, because I no longer care  I do my own thing and get lost in my head.

Business-wise, of course, that could be a problem.


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## Dante B. (Nov 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by heeholler *_
> Thanks for the info! All this is informative to me here.



No problem


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## Mudge (Nov 29, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dante B. *_
> Business-wise, of course, that could be a problem.



People pick up on that and they act funky around you, yep.


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## Dante B. (Nov 30, 2003)

Have you tried meditation, or something along the lines of Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP)?

Often, people are all too willing to manipulate their hormones, without being as driven to shift their perspective. I know this too well. When I was younger constant meditation allowed me to slay many of my demons, although they pop up now and then with greater zeal (hence the need for constant practice).

For some of us, sanity is something that has to be sedulously pursued


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## Mudge (Nov 30, 2003)

Haven't really tried meditation, for me facing things head on is what seems to work best. I do relax plenty though, although sometimes that opens me up to thinking, which seems to be the problem - thinking about things


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## Dante B. (Dec 1, 2003)

Of course, taking things head on, with the same attitude (/perspective) generally results in the same emotional outcome.

You may get things done, but it won't be pleasant, or efficient. I'm not preaching, rather, I'm running along the lines of "it takes one to know one." 

As for thinking, it's because too many people dwell on the same thoughts, which isn't to be confused with thinking through them (shifting perspective in the process).

Unfortunately, it's not an easy procedure and it's more like a surgery----it hurts, now, and you're better for it later. Painkillers help in the meantime (stoicism)  Mary Jane is also wonderful for the occasional moonlight tryst.

If you haven't read The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius, or the Discourses of Epictetus (which is often packaged with the Enchiridion), I suggest you do so. You'll probably enjoy them.


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## Dante B. (Dec 3, 2003)

<->

Interested in feedback, too.


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## Dale Mabry (Dec 3, 2003)

I used to get stressed, oohhh, about 7 or so years ago.  It seems to me that the constant dwelling on things that Dante mentioned was the root cause.  I developed my own attitude towards pretty much everything that basically states that, in the grand scheme of things, nothing can really be that bad and what is the worst that can happen as a result anyway?  For example, say you miss a credit card payment.  Who the fuck cares, it's not like they are gonnna track you down and kill you.  So I guess my "What's the worst that can happen" mentality turned into a "Who the Fuck Cares" type of mentality, which I hold on strongly to today.

I also believe that things have a way of evenning out, ala Seinfeld.  So whenever something bad happens, I look at it as either something preceeding something very good, or something coming after an extreme high.  Either way it is all good to me cuz we are in winter which is the peak season to drink beer anyway. So many delectable styles to choose from once I finish this M1T in another week.


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## Mudge (Dec 3, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dante B. *_
> If you haven't read The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius, or the Discourses of Epictetus (which is often packaged with the Enchiridion), I suggest you do so. You'll probably enjoy them.



I should get around to that, I definitely trust your suggestion, and yes I dwell on things which is my problem.


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## Mudge (Dec 3, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> I developed my own attitude towards pretty much everything that basically states that, in the grand scheme of things, nothing can really be that bad and what is the worst that can happen as a result anyway? For example, say you miss a credit card payment.



I had to learn this also. Life goes on, you can say it, but until you understand it as truth it doesn't help. You know that pretty much everything will be 'forgotten' in a couple weeks or months time.

"Dont sweat the small stuff - and its all just small stuff."


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## Dante B. (Dec 3, 2003)

> the Emperor.



That book is the rare place that I can actually find solace within.

We all have our shares of issues, I gather; it's just how we deal with them, and how consistently we do so.

In the end, it's always worth it.


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## Mudge (Dec 3, 2003)

I wish you were an ancient gem, hidden from mine eyes. Your luster is too much to behold.


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## Dante B. (Dec 15, 2003)

<->


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