# post workout carbs.



## Bigglepal (Sep 10, 2012)

Hey i was wondering how many carbs everyone has immediately post workout? 
I have 30g in waxi +22g from milk +4g from the pp.

Im at 5'11'' 205pounds but +20% bf.
At the moment carb cycling 150/100/50 reset with 300g protein forgotten fat ill check it the 50 on last day is all post workout.

Cheers,

Bigglepal.


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## lee111s (Sep 10, 2012)

I have 50g dextrose with 30g whey, 5g glutamine and 5g leucine within 30 minutes of PWO. Then the fun starts. I then get in an additional 300-500g of carbs that night depending on how and what I've trained.


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## theCaptn' (Sep 10, 2012)

WMS + lactose from milk is a poor choice of carbs bro. The whole WMS thing is bunk.

Go for dextrose (brewing sugar) - its cheap and a simple monosaccharide which is absorbed immediately.


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## lee111s (Sep 10, 2012)

Spike dat der insulin and get the good shit into the muscle cells!


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## nby (Sep 10, 2012)

no slin?


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## Bigglepal (Sep 10, 2012)

Oh ok cheers,
So is there a kind of bench mark amount of carbs?
So I'd be much better off with 30g dextrose and milk or ditch the milk and use dextrose alone?

Should I include waxi/Dextrose pre workout?

Is there still a place for WMS just filling up the diet with carbs/calories when bulking?


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## theCaptn' (Sep 10, 2012)

Throw WMS in the trash 

Although bringing you to the cutting edge is usually very exciting, I sometimes have to become the Mythbuster. Today that myth lies squarely in the face of waxy maize starch and if it's worth the price. Get the truth right here.
By: David Barr
Jan 29, 2009



EMAIL
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Article Summary:
Waxy starches are carbohydrates derived from various sources.
Waxy starches contain a large amount of highly branched starch.
Despite hours of research, I couldn't find any reason to use WMS.

The Myth Of Waxy Maize Starch


Although bringing you to the cutting edge is usually very exciting, there's a darker side that must often emerge: when I have to don the mask and become sports nutrition's Mythbuster.

Sure I've created some of the most prominent tombstones in the graveyard: glutamine, arginine (a.k.a. "nitric oxide"), anti-creatine, and even the post-workout window have fallen to my blade.

But every time there's a backlash, as companies scramble to bury the data, younger individuals get angry as their underdeveloped prefrontal cortices hold reason captive. But this time it's worse. This time, I may have inadvertently helped create the myth. It's the myth of Waxy Maize Starch (WMS), and it's time for me to pay the price.


 Click Image To Enlarge.
It's Time For Me To Pay The Price.

What Is Waxy Maize Starch?


Before we get to the actual myth, we should take a look at what we're talking about. In fact, some of the mythology lies in the fundamental misunderstanding of what WMS really is.

Waxy starches are carbohydrates derived from various sources such as rice, barley, and corn (i.e. maize). The "waxy" part refers to the fact that under a microscope there exists a resemblance to actual wax, although this it does so in appearance only.

The main characteristic of waxy starches is that they generally contain a large amount of highly branched starch called amylopectin. Specifically, waxy starches are defined as having an exceptionally high amylopectin content - the remaining being comprised of the less branched amylose (8, 12).


 Amylopectin:
Amylopectin is a highly branched polymer of glucose found in plants. It is one of the two components of starch, the other being amylose. It is soluble in water.

Considering that many of us have used WMS specifically for the purposes of post-workout glycogen restoration, you may be interested to know that the highly branched glucose subunits of amylopectin essentially make it the plant version of glycogen. Amylose on the other hand, is less branched and in theory, more slowly digested (3, 13, 15).

The reason behind their relative digestion rate is due to the fact that enzymes have greater access to the glucose subunits in the highly branched structure. At least that's how it should work. It's worth noting that along with the degree of branching comes the giant molecular weight of amylopectin, which contributes directly to the mythology.


 Click Image To Enlarge.
WMS Magnified 400X And By TEM.

The Myth Itself


Now that we understand what we're talking about, it's time to look at the actual tale. Essentially, the myth states that WMS is a very fast carbohydrate because of its high amylopectin component (>99%), and subsequent enormous molecular weight (this explains why some companies simply call their WMS "amylopectin").

It's further stated that because of this molecular weight, WMS is absorbed by the gut more quickly than dextrose or maltodextrin -the archetypical "fast carbs"- which in turn results in much greater glycogen storage. Some claims go so far as to specify that WMS is absorbed, or will restore muscle glycogen, ~70-80% faster than other quick sources.

Unfortunately, these claims just cannot be substantiated. In fact, there are very few studies even performed on WMS, and they're not at all what you might expect. Fortunately, the earliest research on WMS not only used exercise, but did so in trained athletes, making their results more relevant. Let's take a closer look.


 Click Image To Enlarge.
Amylose & Amylopectin.

Top Secret: The WMS Studies


The first study compared way maize to dextrose, slow starch, and a placebo (4). In contrast to common claims, following ingestion, both blood glucose and resulting insulin levels were similar between WMS and slow starch, and 3 times lower than plain dextrose. Measured work output during cycling exercise was not different following either dextrose or WMS ingestion, which were similar to slow starch.

WMS Summary 1: Blood Sugar And Insulin Were Similar To Slow Starch, But Much Lower Than Dextrose. 

The next study examined 24-hour glycogen resynthesis using WMS, maltodextrin, dextrose, or slow starch (6). WMS-induced glycogen storage and subsequent work performance were not different from that of dextrose or maltodextrin consumption. It wasn't all bad news however, as these three carbohydrates yielded improved performance over slow starch.
FORUM THREAD

[ Click To Join The Thread. ] Waxy Maize Starch. 
Is waxy maize starch equally, less, or more effective then oats post workout? 
Started By:
SupaFly78


WMS Summary 2: 24-Hour Glycogen Resynthesis Was Not Different From Dextrose Or Maltodextrin. 

A more recent study looked at WMS (a.k.a. "amylopectin") compared to maltodextrin, sucrose (a.k.a. table sugar), and slow starch, using a 1-hour glycemic index test (conducted by one of the researchers who invented it back in the 1980's)(1).
Once again, WMS performance contradicted the frequent claims about apparent rapid absorption. This time, blood glucose levels were not only lower than maltodextrin, but lower even than the slower carbohydrate sucrose. In fact, the glycemic response of WMS was low enough for researchers to call it a "low-glycemic-index treatment", like the slow starch.

WMS Summary 3: Blood Glucose Levels Lower Than Maltodextrin And Sucrose. 

Far from an isolated incident, a brand new study sought to specifically investigate the glycemic response of WMS ingestion compared to both maltodextrin with a small amount of sucrose, and white bread (10).
Interestingly, the resulting blood glucose response of WMS was similar to that of bread! As you'd expect, this was quite a bit lower than the fast carb mix of maltodextrin + sucrose. Additionally, the insulin response was significantly lower for WMS even compared to the bread treatment (and of course much lower than maltodextrin).

RELATED POLL
Do You Take Waxy Maize Starch? 
 Yes 
No


WMS Summary 4: Blood Glucose Similar To, And Insulin Lower Than, White Bread. 

A final study compared the glycemic response of 25g WMS that was cooked with water into a paste, to that of the same amount of glucose (5). This study is different from the previous WMS studies that used uncooked "native" WMS. The blood sugar levels were similar between groups, leading the researchers to give the WMS a glycemic index rating of 90.
WMS Summary 5: Similar Blood Sugar Response As Dextrose. 

If we're dissecting the information on WMS -as we should be, especially if we're thinking of spending money on it- then we need to evaluate the glycemic index itself.
Although a full discussion is beyond the scope of this article, it's worth noting that simply measuring blood sugar isn't ideal for a complete understanding of this substance. Adding insulin measurements helps a great deal, although this is still not perfect (for a full review, see 14).

RELATED ARTICLE

[ Click here to learn more. ] The Glycemic Index! 
The Glycemic index (also GI) is a ranking system that ranks the effects of carbohydrates on blood glucose levels. Learn more.
Author:
Jeff Behar


At the same time, it's critical to understand that the purpose of this review is to evaluate the claims surrounding WMS, and then determine how they match up with the available information. Clearly they don't.

A Leap Of Faith


Looking at the above summaries there seem to be discrepancies. After all, the responses range from being slightly worse than dextrose (5), to much worse than dextrose (4) or sugar and maltodextrin (1), to even worse than bread (10). While none of these probably make you want to use WMS, or support the predominant claims about it, the differences are enough to make you wonder what's going on.

After contacting National Starch and Chemical Company (NS) I discovered that there are different preparation methods for waxy maize. These treatments can change the properties of WMS such that it may be absorbed differently. For example, cooked starch is more readily absorbed than the native uncooked version.

I must admit that this gave me a glimmer of hope as I quickly jumped on the idea that any WMS available for sale would only use the fastest "type". Unfortunately this was short lived as the realization set in that the "rapidly hydrolyzed" starch from NS (11), called AMIOCA, actually yielded some of the worst performance results when compared to actual fast carbohydrates (1, 4).

HISTORY OF WAXY MAIZE
The exact history of waxy maize is unknown. The first mentions of it were found in the archives of the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA).
In 1908, the Rev. J. M. W. Farnham, a Presbyterian missionary in Shanghai, sent a sample of seeds to the U.S. Office of Foreign Seed and Plant Introduction. A note with the seeds called it: "A peculiar kind of corn. There are several colours, but they are said to be all the same variety.

The corn is much more glutinous than the other varieties, so far as I know, and may be found to be of some use, perhaps as porridge." These seeds were planted on May 9, 1908, near Washington, D.C., by a botanist named G.N. Collins.

He was able to grow 53 plants to maturity and made a thorough characterisation of these plants, including photographs, which were published in a USDA bulletin issued in December 1909. In 1915, the plant was rediscovered in Upper Burma and in 1920 in the Philippines. Kuleshov, when screening the distribution of maize in Asia, found it in many other places.

The discrepancies lie in the fact that the "rapidity" was originally determined with digestive enzymes in a test tube (11), or was relative to a very slow starch (1, 11). From this we can see that in contrast to original opinion, amylopectin content is not synonymous with fast digestion or absorption.

NOTE: The company themselves have no glycemic data on this product, making this the first (and currently only) literature review of WMS in existence.

So the fastest WMS might be almost as good as dextrose or maltodextrin, but how can we be sure what kind we're getting? Naturally you wouldn't expect anyone to admit that they're selling the "slower" types of WMS, and considering the other claims that have been made...

Come to think of it, the absence of information available makes me wonder if anyone knows what's being ingested.

FORUM THREAD

[ Click To Join The Thread. ] WMS Clarification. 
From what I understand, WMS is a fast digesting complex carb. So how is it as a fast alternative to a whole food carb like oats?
Started By:
lcplgrande



Full Investigation. Full Report.


To reiterate, not only do the available data fail to support any of the claims made about WMS, they seem to contradict it! At this point I began to feel as though I was missing something. So just to make sure that I covered everything, I contacted 5 of the biggest supplement companies that sell WMS products.

Sadly, in spite of their claims, those that actually tried to help me couldn't provide any research on WMS at all. Not exactly a confidence booster. Chances are, if they're reading this report then they're learning right in step with you that there are studies on WMS - and they ain't what they expected...

RELATED POLL
What Is Your Stance On WMS? 
 For It 
Against It 
No Preference



The Myth Is Spawned


So where did this myth come from? After all, there has to be something to it if it's as pervasive as it is. The fable was actually created from the erroneous application of two very powerful carbohydrate studies (7, 9).

These studies used a carbohydrate extract called Vitargo, and were referenced on the label of a now-defunct product containing this carb. When we looked at the label it was clear that this supplement had derived their Vitargo (which again, is a carbohydrate extract) from... drum roll please... waxy maize!

And the myth was born: research showing that Vitargo had rapid gastric clearance and glycogen restoration was equated with the idea that high molecular weight carbohydrates (i.e. WMS/amylopectin) had these properties.

RELATED ARTICLE

[ Click here to learn more. ] Post-Workout Carbs! 
There are really only two times of the day to take in simple carbohydrates: first thing in the morning and after your workout.
Author:
Jim Brewster


Just take a look at any supposed WMS references, if you can find them, and you'll see at least one of these studies listed: Leiper et al., (2000) or Piehl Aulin et al. (2000). In fact, this is also where the often-specified gastric emptying, rate of absorption, and glycogen resynthesis numbers come from.

Perhaps the worst part is that these studies not only used Vitargo, they did not derive it from waxy maize! That's right, the commonly cited WMS data actually used a carbohydrate extracted from potato starch (7, 9). As if to add a final comical exclamation point, the potato starch itself wasn't even the waxy variety.

Summary: The most common "information about waxy maize" comes from a carbohydrate extract that wasn't originally waxy nor even derived from corn.

This is a worse connection than saying that Nobel Prize-winning research for the discovery of nitric oxide has any relevance for athletes taking arginine!


Conclusions


So in spite of hours of investigation, I just couldn't find any reason to use WMS. Even speaking to a dozen or so people from the companies that sell it, couldn't provide me with one single study about this substance. Worse than simply not being able to justify claims about its rapidity, most of the available information suggests that WMS is a poor carbohydrate to use after training.

To put all of this in perspective, it's possible that the WMS we're using has worse digestive/absorptive properties than white bread. We can hope that our product contains "faster" WMS, which will undoubtedly become the new claim, but even at best this is similar to dextrose and maltodextrin. Considering that dextrose is the cheapest supplement in existence, this begs the question: what are we paying for?

Related Carbohydrates Articles:
Sweet's Revenge: Carbohydrates Are Back! - By May Blaiz
Carb Cycling For Fat Loss. - By Tim Wescott
Post-Exercise Carbohydrates. - By Mauro Di Pasquale
Other Carbohydrate Articles...

[ FAQ ] You're wrong. I know WMS works.


This review isn't suggesting that WMS can't restore muscle glycogen, it simply shows that at best it is not superior to dextrose or maltodextrin. Of course we can't personally determine whether our gastric emptying is superior to other fast carbs - even taking blood sugar measurements is not sensitive enough to ascertain this.
To date, there are no comparison gastric emptying studies with WMS. Lastly, don't forget that this is an investigative literature review, not an opinion piece.


[ FAQ ] Do you work for a competitor who wants to hurt WMS sales?


Sadly no. The 100+ hours I've put into this investigation are all pro bono. I'll consider it penance for having mentioned WMS in the past. Interestingly, even if I were the CEO of a competing company, it wouldn't impact the scientific literature or the unsupported claims.

[ FAQ ] I am mad about the presentation of this information. Does that make me a moron?


No, just human. You're experiencing something called cognitive dissonance or true-believer syndrome, both of which are natural psychological phenomena. In time, reason should prevail, but for now it's important enough to recognize that your judgment is being affected.

 Cognitive Dissonance & True-Believer Syndrome:
Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously. The "ideas" or "cognitions" in question may include attitudes and beliefs, and also the awareness of one's behavior.
True-believer syndrome is a term coined by M. Lamar Keene in his 1976 book The Psychic Mafia. Keene used the term to refer to people who continued to believe in a paranormal event or phenomenon even after it had been proven to have been staged.




[ FAQ ] What if I still want to use WMS products?


This literature review isn't about telling you what to do; it's about giving you the information with which to make an educated decision. Whether or not you choose to risk your performance and money has no bearing on whether someone else may not want to take those risks. It's ultimately your choice, and you deserve to have all of the information with which to make it.
About The Author:

David Barr is widely recognized as an industry innovator and Mythbuster, most recently for his work on developing The Anabolic Index. As a strength coach and scientist, he brings a unique perspective to the areas of diet, supplementation, and training. His research experience includes work for NASA at the Johnson Space Center, as well as studying the effect of protein on muscle growth in the now famous muscle metabolism lab at the Shriner's Burns Institute.
He holds certifications with the NSCA as well as USA Track and Field, and is the Official supplement consultant for Super Human Radio. He can be contacted through his website: http://www.RaiseTheBarr.net.


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## Michael222 (Sep 11, 2012)

Recent research shows that eating high protein supplements before workouts is a health choice to make the workouts more effective and productive. It boost up the fat burning and muscle building process during workouts. Taking instant energy foods is good after workouts.


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## rage racing (Sep 11, 2012)

I eat approx 50g carbs via a white bagel


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## flynike (Sep 11, 2012)

Whey Protein, Glutamine and Brown Rice post workout


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## Standard Donkey (Sep 11, 2012)

post workout carbs aren't necessary..


insulin spike thing is broscience..

the only reason pro BBer's take large amounts of simple carbs in post workout is because they take slin post workout so they have to eat the carbs so they dont die.


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## lee111s (Sep 12, 2012)

Itt's not so much bro science dude. Check out Kiefers carb back loading. It's all about pwo high GI carbs. Works wonders for me!


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## Standard Donkey (Sep 13, 2012)

lee111s said:


> Itt's not so much bro science dude. Check out Kiefers carb back loading. It's all about pwo high GI carbs. Works wonders for me!




doesn't look like it


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## hypo_glycemic (Sep 13, 2012)

Post workout carbs are not for just slin "bro"!


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## Standard Donkey (Sep 13, 2012)

hypo_glycemic said:


> Post workout carbs are not for just slin "bro"!




true, but glycogen stores can be partially replenished by drinking water, and assuming that you consume 80-150g of carbs 1-1.5 hours before your workout your glycogen stores should be completely filled.


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## sityslicker (Sep 13, 2012)

Bigglepal said:


> Oh ok cheers,
> So is there a kind of bench mark amount of carbs?
> So I'd be much better off with 30g dextrose and milk or ditch the milk and use dextrose alone?
> 
> ...



You sound like someone who puts on bf easily. If this is the case, I would dump the liquid carbs pwo shake all together and eat your food. You body will get what it needs from the meals your eating and your bf stores. Don't over stress the pwo shake, unless your super lean or extremely carb depleted. If your really sitting at 20% bf your insulin sensitivity has to be poor, the last thing you want to do is add sugary/simple carbs to your diet. Poor insensitivity, guess where these carbs go?? fat cells.


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## sityslicker (Sep 13, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> *post workout carbs aren't necessary..*
> 
> 
> insulin spike thing is broscience..
> ...



I agree, there is no way most people are burning through that much glycogen unless there an endurance athlete or carb cycling and already in a depleted state. Even then, it will take much more then pwo shake to fill back out. You can meet all your carbs needs via diet.


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## Standard Donkey (Sep 13, 2012)

to aid in fat loss, only eat carbs (100-150g of complex) 1.5 hours or so before your workout


doing that will make you drop fat, water, and will make you more insulin sensitive (which is something we all want right?)


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## MakeItMethylated (Sep 13, 2012)

50 grams dextrose, 4 table spoons of oats with 42 grams whey


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## Standard Donkey (Sep 13, 2012)

MakeItMethylated said:


> 50 grams dextrose, 4 table spoons of oats with 42 grams whey




recipe for fat as fatass right here, nothing like noobs giving advise


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## lee111s (Sep 14, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> doesn't look like it



Thanks for your amazing insight.

I'm happy with my body as it is and happy with my progress. If you've nothing positive or constructive to say, then please keep your comments to yourself.


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## dieseljimmy (Sep 14, 2012)

75 gram dex post workout with two bananas... I cycle slin in and out every 6 weeks but I keep the carbs the same.  I have noticed a significant difference in the pump. No carbs post workout.


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## Standard Donkey (Sep 14, 2012)

lee111s said:


> Thanks for your amazing insight.
> 
> I'm happy with my body as it is and happy with my progress. If you've nothing positive or constructive to say, then please keep your comments to yourself.




that's great that you're happy with your body, you just shouldnt be giving advice (especially bad advice) to people because you think you look good.



you are just evidence that (especially with steroids, the only reason i know you used them is because i read your other thread.. otherwise id think ur natty) you can get gains from pretty much anything while still a noob


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## PushAndPull (Sep 14, 2012)

The only thing post workout carbs are good for is an excuse. I like chocolate milk or nestle strawberry syrup with milk post workout. It doesn't help with gains, but it sure does taste good. Better yet, if I ignore reality, believe with the hype, then I can pretend like it's good for me!


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## theCaptn' (Sep 14, 2012)

Only carbs I have on my postWO shake is 10g spirilina and 20g powdered oats with 30g wPI n 20g casein.


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## Michael222 (Sep 15, 2012)

Michael222 said:


> Recent research shows that eating high protein supplements before workouts is a health choice to make the workouts more effective and productive.


It boost up the fat burning and muscle building process during workouts. Taking instant energy foods is good after workouts.
Cary Exercise


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## l69lou (Sep 15, 2012)

I have been using karbolyn for about a year. 50 g pwo. When I used to use dextrose it would sometimes upset my stomach.


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## l69lou (Sep 15, 2012)

theCaptn' said:


> Only carbs I have on my postWO shake is 10g spirilina and 20g powdered oats with 30g wPI n 20g casein.


 Why do you use spirilina ? Something to do with recouperation I suppose. Just curious I've never heard of it.


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## sscar (Sep 15, 2012)

lee111s said:


> I have 50g dextrose with 30g whey, 5g glutamine and 5g leucine within 30 minutes of PWO. Then the fun starts. I then get in an additional 300-500g of carbs that night depending on how and what I've trained.


this guy gets it and ill bet he's losing body fat also.


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## sscar (Sep 15, 2012)

lee111s said:


> Itt's not so much bro science dude. Check out Kiefers carb back loading. It's all about pwo high GI carbs. Works wonders for me!



me to its awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## theCaptn' (Sep 15, 2012)

l69lou said:


> Why do you use spirilina ? Something to do with recouperation I suppose. Just curious I've never heard of it.



Nutrient dense superfood.

I also used to make vege juices for pWO that included:

Beets, spinach, garlic, ginger, celery, carrot for the same reason.


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## jimm (Sep 16, 2012)

lee111s said:


> I have 50g dextrose with 30g whey, 5g glutamine and 5g leucine within 30 minutes of PWO. Then the fun starts. I then get in an additional 300-500g of carbs that night depending on how and what I've trained.




so much carbs so late sounds so good haha i naturally eat very low carbs im just so used to it i need to carb up becasue i look as flat as a pankake i used malto dextrin and have oats every day gonna start eating lots of sweet potatoe again when you do this late night carb up is clean carbs or u just go crazy with pizza n shit?


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## lee111s (Sep 16, 2012)

sscar said:


> this guy gets it and ill bet he's losing body fat also.




Definitely. I'm getting heavier and leaner. Whoever said it's impossible to gain muscle and lose fat is a moron!

It's all about nutrient timing and changing how your body's hormones affect your growth and fat loss at different times of the day.


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## jimm (Sep 16, 2012)

flynike said:


> Whey Protein, Glutamine and Brown Rice post workout




sounds so boring!... but does the job i guess dam that clean diet!


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## jimm (Sep 16, 2012)

theCaptn' said:


> Only carbs I have on my postWO shake is 10g spirilina and 20g powdered oats with 30g wPI n 20g casein.





whats spirilina? super food you say hmmmm i will have to google this shit


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## jimm (Sep 16, 2012)

l69lou said:


> I have been using karbolyn for about a year. 50 g pwo. When I used to use dextrose it would sometimes upset my stomach.




thanks for sharing!


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## lee111s (Sep 16, 2012)

jimm said:


> so much carbs so late sounds so good haha i naturally eat very low carbs im just so used to it i need to carb up becasue i look as flat as a pankake i used malto dextrin and have oats every day gonna start eating lots of sweet potatoe again when you do this late night carb up is clean carbs or u just go crazy with pizza n shit?



Typically I have a clean meal about 30-45 minutes after my PWO shake, like jasmine rice and chicken. Then an hour or so later and up to 2 hours before bed you can have what you want, fat content doesn't matter...donuts, cookies, ice cream. Because of certain hormones and pathways that are active and open after exercise it's almost impossible for your body to store anything you eat as fat.

You don't eat carbs at any time other than in the evening on days you train. On non training days you eat roughly 1gram of protein and fat per lb of body weight (for example I eat around 150-160g of fat AND protein on off days. On training days I have one meal (about 80g of fat and protein) about 5 hours before I train.

Seriously check out dangerouslyhardcore.com there's so much information about it.


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## flynike (Sep 17, 2012)

jimm said:


> sounds so boring!... but does the job i guess dam that clean diet!


not that boring, I mix it up sometimes w some  flavored stevia drops !


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## sityslicker (Sep 17, 2012)

lee111s said:


> Typically I have a clean meal about 30-45 minutes after my PWO shake, like jasmine rice and chicken. Then an hour or so later and up to 2 hours before bed you can have what you want, fat content doesn't matter...donuts, cookies, ice cream. Because of certain hormones and pathways that are active and open after exercise it's almost impossible for your body to store anything you eat as fat.
> 
> You don't eat carbs at any time other than in the evening on days you train. On non training days you eat roughly 1gram of protein and fat per lb of body weight (for example I eat around 150-160g of fat AND protein on off days. On training days I have one meal (about 80g of fat and protein) about 5 hours before I train.
> 
> Seriously check out dangerouslyhardcore.com there's so much information about it.



If your running carbs lower on your off days and early on your training days, you never really getting to the point of topping off glycogen stores and spilling over into fat stores. In your case, pwo shake high in carbs is suitable for you.


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## lee111s (Sep 18, 2012)

sityslicker said:


> If your running carbs lower on your off days and early on your training days, you never really getting to the point of topping off glycogen stores and spilling over into fat stores. In your case, pwo shake high in carbs is suitable for you.




That's part of it but not all of it. When you first start the diet you do a 10 day no carb phase to get your body accustomed to using fat as it's primary energy source. So while your dietary fat intake is high, your body doesn't store it and uses it as energy. 

Along with the way your hormones are manipulated by the diet, it's almost impossible for your body to store fat PWO. The reason being is that the fat isn't available for use until about 2-3 hours after ingestion, by which time your muscles have taken all of the carbs in that they need and your body will then return to using fat as it's energy source, so it's never stored.

It's a pretty simple plan to follow but the science behind how it works is very complex. It's all to do with mtoR, insulin manipulation and activation of your GLUT4 receptors as well as taking advantage of your circadian rythm. Kiefer done something like 4 years of reading studies about different bodily processed before he put the eating plan to paper and if followed correctly some amazing results can be had.

Check out his latest article which gives some of the reasons why CBL is so awesome - CARB BACK-LOADING: 7 REASONS YOU NEED


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