# How important are BCAA?



## JCBourne (May 24, 2011)

I haven't taken BCAA's in a long time solo, but why take them? I believe my protein shake has them however.


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## SuperLift (May 24, 2011)

Important, but your whey protein has a high concentration of them so really they aren't that necissary. More of a luxury to take BCAAs. I just kinda munch on them all day long lol. Then again, I get them pretty cheap!


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## yjyankee (May 24, 2011)

They're beneficial when dieting.  Especially when you go into major caloric deficit.


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## TGB1987 (May 24, 2011)

yjyankee said:


> They're beneficial when dieting. Especially when you go into major caloric deficit.


 This is the only time I really supplement BCAA's .  They are great when cutting down.  They help keep your muscle while increasing fat that is burned.


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## Resolve (May 24, 2011)

If you're not constantly sipping Xtend, don't even bother going to the gym, it'd be futile.

Nah, BCAAs are beneficial, but definitely not essential if your diet is already rich in protein.


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## trapzilla (May 24, 2011)

GymRat707 said:


> I haven't taken BCAA's in a long time solo, but why take them? I believe my protein shake has them however.


 
It depends on when you planned to use them.

In the morning as first protein source;useful due to fast digestion and insulin response(thankd Built)

post workout-useful, same reasons as in the morning.

anyother time useless in comparison to whole food sources IMO.

I feel that most intraworkout nutrition is pointless now. as almost no food sources other than very fast digesting carbs and bcaa can be digested and utilised fast enough.


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## Author L. Rea (May 24, 2011)

Hope_ I_ am not intruding in here? My apology and delete if so. 

Interesting possibilities to discuss. When consuming whole proteins you are consuming chains of amino acids that must go through the digestive process. As such you may wait up to 4 hours before all of the EAA are available and this includes BCAAs. Worse is the ratio of amino acids change dramatically, in some cases over 60% is lost and this can include or even focus upon BCAAs. So the goal becomes to be certain of a secondary supply of BCAA, well, all EAA for that matter, that are pre-digested and preferably resist break down into glucose or ketonic fatty acids for those times when you are under stress. Training, dieting, fighting with your other half and board fights can all cause your lean mass to give up those BCAAs thus moving from growth and recovery to loss and shrinking. You have to keep a positive nitrogen balance if your goal is performance and lean mass enhancing it. Here is a short commentary from Dr. Minkoff that keeps this pretty straight forward IMO. There is so much more interesting realities concerning protein and human health induced enhancement but as I said, not sure if I am intruding. 

Why aren???t people getting the protein they need from their diet? Dr. Minkoff says that as individuals enter middle age, they lose about half of the hydrochloric acid in their stomachs. This hydrochloric acid is necessary to activate the digestive enzymes, such as pepsin, that initiate protein breakdown. ???If you can???t digest the protein you eat,??? says Dr. Minkoff, ???it doesn???t matter how much protein you???re eating ??? your body won???t absorb it.???
???Atkins type dieters overload their body with protein and high levels of nitrogen waste products. But many of these people don???t adequately digest the protein, and if so, they may be deficient too,??? says Dr. Minkoff.
???Additionally, anyone on medications that block gastric acid production ??? for example, Nexium, Prilosec, Tagamet, Zantac, Pepsid ??? will also have faulty protein digestion.???
Besides the difficulty of digesting protein, Dr. Minkoff says there is another fact many don???t know about protein. Even if you do have adequate hydrochloric acid levels, your body can only use about 20 to 50 percent of the protein in the foods you consume. For example, even though fish, poultry, and meat are high in protein, the body can only make use of about 28 to 32 percent of this protein. The rest is converted to nitrogen waste. This is called net Nitrogen Utilization (NNU). ???The high nitrogen waste that results from protein metabolism can be very hard on the bodies of certain individuals, particularly those with kidney problems,??? says Dr. Minkoff. 
The National Kidney Foundation says 20 million Americans have kidney disease, and another 20 million have reduced kidney function and don???t even know it. One study at Brigham and Women???s Hospital found that when individuals with reduced kidney function engaged in high protein diets, their kidneys declined even further.
???As the kidneys are taxed with excessive nitrogen waste, it can leave people feeling tired, achy, sore, and groggy,??? says Dr. Minkoff. It also inhibits recovery, growth and general health.


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## heavyiron (May 24, 2011)

Thank you for this!




Author L. Rea said:


> Hope_ I_ am not intruding in here? My apology and delete if so.
> 
> Interesting possibilities to discuss. When consuming whole proteins you are consuming chains of amino acids that must go through the digestive process. As such you may wait up to 4 hours before all of the EAA are available and this includes BCAAs. Worse is the ratio of amino acids change dramatically, in some cases over 60% is lost and this can include or even focus upon BCAAs. So the goal becomes to be certain of a secondary supply of BCAA, well, all EAA for that matter, that are pre-digested and preferably resist break down into glucose or ketonic fatty acids for those times when you are under stress. Training, dieting, fighting with your other half and board fights can all cause your lean mass to give up those BCAAs thus moving from growth and recovery to loss and shrinking. You have to keep a positive nitrogen balance if your goal is performance and lean mass enhancing it. Here is a short commentary from Dr. Minkoff that keeps this pretty straight forward IMO. There is so much more interesting realities concerning protein and human health induced enhancement but as I said, not sure if I am intruding.
> 
> ...


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## SwoleChamp (May 24, 2011)

good info above^


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## SuperLift (May 24, 2011)

SwoleChamp said:


> good info above^



indeed! all remarkable answers!


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## mich29 (May 24, 2011)

haven't seen you on the boards in forever author good to see ya back.great post there.have you heard about power chews there's a BCAA chewable product thats out thats pretty neat you might wanna take a look if you get a chance.


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## Author L. Rea (May 25, 2011)

mich29 said:


> haven't seen you on the boards in forever author good to see ya back.great post there.have you heard about power chews there's a BCAA chewable product thats out thats pretty neat you might wanna take a look if you get a chance.


 

I did a search for Power Chews and came up with a few possibilities. Always interested in science so please give me a brand? Thanks Bro

BTW: Dropped in when I had a few free minutes and saw some interesting people and discussions. As you know I am a work-aholic so its been a pleasure to chat with some different people. Thanks for the welcome!


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## Author L. Rea (May 25, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> Thank you for this!


 
BTW, Heavy Iron...GREAT to see you again. Keeping it real as always no doubt.


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## heavyiron (May 25, 2011)

Author L. Rea said:


> BTW, Heavy Iron...GREAT to see you again. Keeping it real as always no doubt.


 
Thanks!

 Hope to see you here more often. I love your products and your writings!


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## Author L. Rea (May 25, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Hope to see you here more often. I love your products and your writings!


 
Thank you Bro. I would be honored if you would be interested in doing some write-ups and honest product reviews Heavy Iron. You have always been a no BS guy as well as extremely well written. If you have the time and interests, please contact Laina Bro, and again, great to see you again. Always enjoyed reading your posts and writings. They skip the hype and call it for whatever it is. 

Regards;
Author


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## Daft205 (May 25, 2011)

Yeah, bcaas definitely have their place. I heard a very interesting interview with vince andrich regarding bcaas...he had some really good info on how/when/why to use bcaas/leucine. The general point was that when used correctly bcaa's, and specifically leucine can not only have an anti-catabolic effect( which is why many sip bcaa's between meals) but also an independent anabolic effect due to luecines direct effect protein sythesis and the mTOR pathway. Vince described luecine as a catalyst to these processes, and used the metaphor- if protein synthesis is door, leucine is a key that unlocks that door, and protein and other nutrients are what pass through the doorway( thus ideally causing muscle growth). His contention was that while luecine may "kickstart" the intial process, adequate amounts of the other aminos is necessary for optimal growth to occur. He went further to say that in general leucine has a synergistic effect with protein of any kind. Vinces base recommendation for optimal anabolic effect elicited via leucine or bcaa usage was somewhat counter intuitive- instead of adding leucine/bcaa's to a whey shake, or drinking bcaas between meals, he suggest dosing leucine/ bcaa's with whole protein meals( ie chicken, beef, eggs, etc.). Vinces reasoning was that whole food sources are generally lower in leucine content then protein powder, and that by adding a few grams of leucine to each meal you can be sure optimal protein synthesis occurs. The "key"(remember the metaphor) dose is approx 3 grams leucine, to be combined with protein rich food. He added that most protein powders contain about two grams per 25g total protein so if you do add leucine or bcaas to your shake add just enough to bring total leucine in between 3-4 grams........ Lately I've using powerchews bcaas for this protocol just a couple tabs with each meal- seems to working nicely.


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## Author L. Rea (May 25, 2011)

Daft205 said:


> Yeah, bcaas definitely have their place. I heard a very interesting interview with vince andrich regarding bcaas...he had some really good info on how/when/why to use bcaas/leucine. The general point was that when used correctly bcaa's, and specifically leucine can not only have an anti-catabolic effect( which is why many sip bcaa's between meals) but also an independent anabolic effect due to luecines direct effect protein sythesis and the mTOR pathway. Vince described luecine as a catalyst to these processes, and used the metaphor- if protein synthesis is door, leucine is a key that unlocks that door, and protein and other nutrients are what pass through the doorway( thus ideally causing muscle growth). His contention was that while luecine may "kickstart" the intial process, adequate amounts of the other aminos is necessary for optimal growth to occur. He went further to say that in general leucine has a synergistic effect with protein of any kind. Vinces base recommendation for optimal anabolic effect elicited via leucine or bcaa usage was somewhat counter intuitive- instead of adding leucine/bcaa's to a whey shake, or drinking bcaas between meals, he suggest dosing leucine/ bcaa's with whole protein meals( ie chicken, beef, eggs, etc.). Vinces reasoning was that whole food sources are generally lower in leucine content then protein powder, and that by adding a few grams of leucine to each meal you can be sure optimal protein synthesis occurs. The "key"(remember the metaphor) dose is approx 3 grams leucine, to be combined with protein rich food. He added that most protein powders contain about two grams per 25g total protein so if you do add leucine or bcaas to your shake add just enough to bring total leucine in between 3-4 grams........ Lately I've using powerchews bcaas for this protocol just a couple tabs with each meal- seems to working nicely.


 
That is facinating daft. I do not know who Vince is but some very interesting observations. How does he account for leucine in a free form by-passes most of the GI thus enters the blood stream in about 20-25 minutes and its affects (insulin spike, mTor modulation etc) last about 2 hours where as whole foods require 2-6 hours of digestion to hit the blood stream with a reasonable balance of AA? Additional meals increase the GI load and slows it (thus up to 6 hours plus in some cases) It misses the anabolic window in short. Maybe he is refering to timing meals accordingly? Is he suggesting a a specific diet to account for adequate amounts and ratios of EAAs? Good read and now I am curious as to the rest. Thanks, I will do some googling when I have a few minutes.


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## heavyiron (May 25, 2011)

Author L. Rea said:


> Thank you Bro. I would be honored if you would be interested in doing some write-ups and honest product reviews Heavy Iron. You have always been a no BS guy as well as extremely well written. If you have the time and interests, please contact Laina Bro, and again, great to see you again. Always enjoyed reading your posts and writings. They skip the hype and call it for whatever it is.
> 
> Regards;
> Author


 Sounds good!


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## hawkcmc (May 25, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> This is the only time I really supplement BCAA's .  They are great when cutting down.  They help keep your muscle while increasing fat that is burned.



So are the BCAA's in your protein not enough, you should supplement with pills also?


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## LightBearer (May 25, 2011)

i like to think its a good idea while oncycle to supplement with bcaa's/
just  picked up 3lbs of ajipure bcaa from TP
supraphysiological amount of test demands supraphysiological amounts of bcaa if you ask me


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## suppRatings (May 26, 2011)

GymRat4Life said:


> I haven't taken BCAA's in a long time solo, but why take them? I believe my protein shake has them however.



Unless you are a hardcore bodybuilder, you probably get everything you need from a powder. They are really for fine tuning in my opinion.


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## OutWhey (May 26, 2011)

GymRat4Life said:


> I haven't taken BCAA's in a long time solo, but why take them? I believe my protein shake has them however.


 I have always taken BCAA and always will. Lately, I have become addicted to the POWERCHEWS not only because of their convinence factor but they taste a lot better than the poweders. I taken BCAA for several reasons. When someone is training to develop a stronger, more powerful body, I believe it is essential to stimulate and fuel your muscles at the cellular level. From my experience, BCAA's reduce muscle fatigue, speed recovery, and help the body absorb protein. Unlike other amino acids, BCAA's are metabolized in the muscle and not the liver. BCAA's are also rapidly depleted from the muscle when training. Taking them before and/or during a work out will increase performance and delay fatigue. Taking BCAA's immediately after or with a post work out meal will lower cortisol (destroys muscle) levels and replace BCAA levels in the muscles faster.


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## jay83 (May 26, 2011)

usplabs has a good bcaa product that you sip during your workout its good tasting and i def think its worth taking cant hurt


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## Author L. Rea (May 28, 2011)

www.SuppRatings.com: Come on Bro...PLEASE get rid of the products we have not made in the last 7 years. lol

You can go to our site and down load most jpgs if you wish. If not, it was kind of like a flash back seeing a few of the items up. Damn, now I have to grow a 90s beard again. lol


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## mich29 (May 28, 2011)

Author L. Rea said:


> I did a search for Power Chews and came up with a few possibilities. Always interested in science so please give me a brand? Thanks Bro
> 
> BTW: Dropped in when I had a few free minutes and saw some interesting people and discussions. As you know I am a work-aholic so its been a pleasure to chat with some different people. Thanks for the welcome!



you can find them under the need to build muscle website and also a few other places I believe. I have some power chew  samples I could send you or your team  I think you and your team would enjoy  them and I'd love to get your thoughts and review on these.

its good to see you back around and posting.


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## Night_Wolf (May 28, 2011)

L Rea glad to see u here, I love your books, I'v read them dozens of times, big respect!
What do u think about this supplement plan while on aas cycle(175lb, low bf):
Preworkout-15g BCAA, 15g L-Glutamine, 1 scoop preworkout (arginine, ornitine, creatine, 10g EAA)
During workout-23g liquid amino, 10g EAA
Postworkout-40g whey, 15g BCAA, 15g L-Glutamine, 5g creatine, 40g maltodextrin, 20g dextrose.
Is this enough amino acids? Should I take ajimoto glutamine or 8:1:1 BCAA, is it worth it? What would u add?
+multivitamin fish oil.Nutrition is awesome.
Thx.


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