# 16 week cycle coming to a close and i dont wanna stop :(



## FTW34 (Aug 13, 2012)

Hey guys just wanted to share, My cycle was as follows

Weeks 1-5
Dbol 50mg
Tbol80mg
Var50mg
500 Test E
300 Test Prop
Aromasin 25mg Daily

5-10
Tbol80mg
Var 50mg
T3 75mcg
Test E 1000mg
Aromasin 25mg daily

10-16
Tren Ace 800mg
Test Prop 400mg
t3 75mcg
Var 50mg
Adex 1mg ED
Caber

Its almost over and i want to go for another two months, im loving this too much I cant stop dont wanna stop now, Worried about my NATTY levels in the future, i want kids, fuck fuck fuck this tren is morphing me into a beast (first tren cycle) i want more. What to do? What to do?

Bitches look at me everywhere i go, even guys fucking look at me. PPL in the gym ask what am i on, what is my diet? its like fuck. fuck. damn. Time on time off? how am i suppose to take 16 weeks off? thats torture. wtf

Never tried superdrol before

I wanna do

Tren E 1000mg
Test E 750mg
Superdrol 20mg
T3 75mcg
Adex 1mg
Caber
Liv52
Advanced Cycle Support

for 2 months? muahaha


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## TrojanMan60563 (Aug 13, 2012)

Sounds like you've already decided what you're gonna do... I dont really see the point of time on equals time off. I think its only benefit is to drop your bodies tolerance to the steroids so when you get back on they work at similar doses instead of having to increase to crazy levels. I see no reason that taking 16 weeks off is going to help get your bodies test levels back to normal, and why? If your plan is to just fuck it up all over again why not just stay on most of the time until you plan to quit the game and stay natural? Getting levels back to normal for good is not as easy as it sounds depending on what drugs you've used.


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## FTW34 (Aug 13, 2012)

the truth hurts doesnt it...  i feel like i made the hasty decision of running tren, and thats already damaging enough


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> Sounds like you've already decided what you're gonna do... I dont really see the point of time on equals time off. *I think its only benefit is to drop your bodies tolerance to the steroids so when you get back on they work at similar doses instead of having to increase to crazy levels.* I see no reason that taking 16 weeks off is going to help get your bodies test levels back to normal, and why? If your plan is to just fuck it up all over again why not just stay on most of the time until you plan to quit the game and stay natural? Getting levels back to normal for good is not as easy as it sounds depending on what drugs you've used.




what the actual fuck? i sincerely hoping you are referencing myostatin.. but given the retarded nature of your other posts.. i find it doubtful that you are


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

also Op, what are your stats and age?


not really relevant but im just curious


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## Dannie (Aug 13, 2012)

Sounds like you are enjoying yourself, what were your results like on tren, can you post a pic? I am just starting Tren cycle.  

As for cycle length, I tried long cycles and blast and cruise. Imo its better to do 8-10 weeks cycle and come off for at least 8 weeks.


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## MattPorter (Aug 13, 2012)

I think that cycle was irresponsible ....lots of methylated orals for a long period of time....who advised this cycle for you?
If you keep cycling like this --- health ramifications are right around the corner and then you wont be able to show-off much of anything.

Use injectables for most cycles --- no reason not to, safer and IMO much more maintainable gains.

The cycles you listed I would envision someone 5 10 260 ++++ and very advanced....but who knows....

-Matt


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## Digitalash (Aug 13, 2012)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> Sounds like you've already decided what you're gonna do... I dont really see the point of time on equals time off. I think its only benefit is to drop your bodies tolerance to the steroids so when you get back on they work at similar doses instead of having to increase to crazy levels. I see no reason that taking 16 weeks off is going to help get your bodies test levels back to normal, and why? If your plan is to just fuck it up all over again why not just stay on most of the time until you plan to quit the game and stay natural? Getting levels back to normal for good is not as easy as it sounds depending on what drugs you've used.




Won't comment on "tolerance to steroids" but the idea of staying on most of the time and then one day deciding to go natty is retarded. If you're on most of the time, guess what? There is no going back to natty, your testosterone now comes in a bottle, not from your nuts. 

OP you ran 16 weeks of orals? And three at the same time? None of this seems very smart bro... You're gonna do what you want as far as blast/cruise etc. but at least don't be a retard.


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## Ezskanken (Aug 13, 2012)

16 weeks of orals must have reaked havok on your lipids bro.  Were you taking any kind of organ support at all those 16 weeks?


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## Wrekem (Aug 13, 2012)

after running my prop/dbol cycle...i tried getting through pct...lost the vascularity quickly...one month later i hopped back on for a cut cycle and never looked back...that was in april...it is what it is, just gotta make your decision, because once you do, even at a young age, there may not be any going back. its just something you gotta think about if you want your goals to become your profession when it comes to never coming off (blast/cruise), but if youre a gym rat...just be smart cuz you got a life outside that gym. remember that...


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## FTW34 (Aug 13, 2012)

age 25
Weight this morning 203
Hieght 5`6

only oral taken for the duration was Anavar.
Tbol was 10 weeks
Dbol was 5 weeks


avatar picture was taken off cycle.


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## NVRBDR (Aug 13, 2012)

Sounds like you need to post a pic of the new you then


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

MattPorter said:


> I think that cycle was irresponsible ....lots of methylated orals for a long period of time....who advised this cycle for you?
> If you keep cycling like this --- health ramifications are right around the corner and then you wont be able to show-off much of anything.
> 
> Use injectables for most cycles --- no reason not to, safer and IMO much more maintainable gains.
> ...



lol


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

FTW34 said:


> age 25
> Weight this morning 203
> Hieght 5`6
> 
> ...




5'6 203.. no wonder everyone is looking at you lol


manlet (jk dont be mad)


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## Vibrant (Aug 13, 2012)

Get some bloodwork to check how everything looks like.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Aug 13, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> what the actual fuck? i sincerely hoping you are referencing myostatin.. but given the retarded nature of your other posts.. i find it doubtful that you are



I can accept your comment that I am retarded, and I won?t even attempt to flame you back. On any given dose of steroids you will hit a point when more is required to gain more. I have no medical knowledge to back up my claims. I don?t think it has to do with maxing out the potential of a dose as much as it is your body doesn't respond to that dose anymore. So it?s either add more, or stop to give the receptors a break. You don?t have to agree with me, and I'll side with you when you find real medical info saying otherwise. Not something you read in Muscular Development, but from something like Google Scholar, or similar legit source.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> I can accept your comment that I am retarded, and I won?t even attempt to flame you back. On any given dose of steroids you will hit a point when more is required to gain more. I have no medical knowledge to back up my claims. I don?t think it has to do with maxing out the potential of a dose as much as it is your body doesn't respond to that dose anymore. So it?s either add more, or stop to *give the receptors a break*. You don?t have to agree with me, and I'll side with you when you find real medical info saying otherwise. Not something you read in Muscular Development, but from something like Google Scholar, or similar legit source.



just stop..


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## TrojanMan60563 (Aug 13, 2012)

Digitalash said:


> Won't comment on "tolerance to steroids" but the idea of staying on most of the time and then one day deciding to go natty is retarded. If you're on most of the time, guess what? There is no going back to natty, your testosterone now comes in a bottle, not from your nuts.
> 
> OP you ran 16 weeks of orals? And three at the same time? None of this seems very smart bro... You're gonna do what you want as far as blast/cruise etc. but at least don't be a retard.



Well don?t be so fooled by the benefits of cycling steroids to keep natural levels in check. Even with proper PCT it?s not a safe bet things will ever go back to normal. I've done two short cycles of injectables, and a couple cycles with pro-steroids like Methyl-D, and 1-TU. PCT after every cycle, and no cycle lasting more than 6 weeks due to high blood pressure and or anxiety issues. After a few years of gaining weight and feeling depressed as hell I finally got labs done and my test was in the mid 200's like 2-3 years after stopping any hormones. Maybe it was ignorant to assume things were back to normal, but I felt relatively normal and all my other labs were great i.e. liver, thyroid, and lipids. Now I am 32 and probably 7 years out and my hormones were in the low 100's and dropped even into double digits. I've had testing of everything that would cause my natural levels to drop and nothing is medically wrong with me. The only thing that could have done this to me is messing around with hormones. So based on my own experience with steroids my views are if you're going to keep starting and stopping your natural production I wouldn't bother taking them at all, or I would run them until I didn't want to anymore before trying to go natural again.

And I agree more than 4-6 weeks of methylated orals is asking for trouble, and most people wouldn't monitor their liver through labs during a long oral cycle to even know if they are doing harm.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Aug 13, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> just stop..



Prove otherwise with a legit source or stop being a troll/douche.


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## Roaddkingg (Aug 13, 2012)

No one wants to stop when you feel like superman, I know I dont.
But thats where my common sence kicks in and until I decide to blast & cruise for good I always plan out my cycles and stick to the plan.
It's not easy.


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## jshel12 (Aug 13, 2012)

if you were in your 30s I'd say just cruise on low dose test, but seeing how you want kids someday I would just come off and pct then cycle again after you recover and repeat that until you have kids.  If your not a pro why risk it, you might meet some gorgeous girl thats cool as shit and she leaves you cause you can't give her kids.  Its not worth it.  Besides you can still run a few cycles a year for now then blast and cruise later on, its not the end of the world.  Good luck either way and give your liver a little break.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> Prove otherwise with a legit source or stop being a troll/douche.




Androgen Receptor in Human Skeletal Muscle and Cultured Muscle Satellite Cells: Up-Regulation by Androgen Treatment


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## FTW34 (Aug 13, 2012)

SD thats way too much reading explain is laman terms please. thanks


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## TrojanMan60563 (Aug 13, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> Androgen Receptor in Human Skeletal Muscle and Cultured Muscle Satellite Cells: Up-Regulation by Androgen Treatment



Want to give a point of reference in that article that contradicts anything I claimed? In what I scanned over I read nothing for or against this debate.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

Several investigators have shown previously that extracts of human skeletal muscle have demonstrable expression of AR (15, 16, 17, 18, 19). Similarly, studies performed in rodents and other experimental animals have provided evidence of AR expression in the skeletal                     muscle (24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33); these studies report significant differences in the intensity of AR expression in different muscle groups. In general,                     more androgen-responsive muscle groups, such as levator ani, express higher levels of AR than less responsive muscle groups,                     such as gastrocnemius (29, 30). *AR expression in the skeletal muscle decreases after castration and is up-regulated by androgen administration *(26, 28, 30).

*There was a qualitative increase in the density of AR within satellite cells and myonuclei after administration of a supraphysiologic                     dose of testosterone enanthate.* Similarly, in enriched satellite cell cultures, incubation with androgens increased the expression                     of AR protein, measured by Western blot analysis.


These data are consistent with those of Sheffield-Moore _et al._ (12) and Kadi _et al._ (17, 18), who also reported *an increase in AR expression in the skeletal muscle biopsies from men receiving androgenic steroids.

*


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## TrojanMan60563 (Aug 13, 2012)

What part of that implies the body, or receptors do not adjust to a given dose of testosterone? I see nothing that mentions tolerances to anything. It compares AR expression in castrated animals and those treated with testosterone. What does that have to do with building a tolerance to testosterone? At any dose over time the gains taper off significantly.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

read the fucking text..

fuck

im not going to continue to spoon feed this to you.. you're a grown ass man


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

can someone get Mr. Heavyiron in here to weigh in on this? I have a distinct feeling that Trojan is having a difficult time dealing with being educated by someone 10 years younger than him.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Aug 13, 2012)

You sir are a moron. You're not here to teach anyone anything. You're here to be a jackass troll. If you cannot express your opinions like an adult, and explain your point of view then maybe you shouldn't post.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> You sir are a moron. You're not here to teach anyone anything. You're here to be a jackass troll. If you cannot express your opinions like an adult, and explain your point of view then maybe you shouldn't post.



i called you out on your pseudoscience, you demanded literature which i provided.. you then wanted me to simplify the literature because you couldnt understand it.. so i found parts which supported my view in the _fewest_ and _smallest_ words possible to facilitate your comprehension.

just because you can't understand what someone is saying, doesnt mean they arent explaining it well.

someone else take over this guy is annoying me lol


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

anyways, ill let someone else break it to trojan that the human body doesnt build up a tolerance to AAS lol.. he clearly doesnt want to hear it from me.



Something that i felt should be touched on... Op ran Orals for 16 weeks straight, Op... anavar is WAY more brutal than people think it is when it comes to your lipids, might be because it's a dht derivative and doesnt convert to E (dont quote me on that).. i HIGHLY recommend that you cease and desist all AAS except for a cruise dose of test if you are determined to stay on


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## hypo_glycemic (Aug 13, 2012)

OP, the orals are an issue. SD-- as much as he "pokes sticks" he's right! And this kid is dead on in this thread ?



Wait did I just say SD was right ? Lol


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## TrojanMan60563 (Aug 13, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> i called you out on your pseudoscience, you demanded literature which i provided.. you then wanted me to simplify the literature because you couldnt understand it.. so i found parts which supported my view in the _fewest_ and _smallest_ words possible to facilitate your comprehension.
> 
> just because you can't understand what someone is saying, doesnt mean they arent explaining it well.
> 
> someone else take over this guy is annoying me lol




You never gave a point of view, all you did was flame mine. I dont care how smart you think you are, but nothing in that quote from the artical had shit to do with building up any tolerance to testosterone.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 13, 2012)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> You never gave a point of view, all you did was flame mine. I dont care how smart you think you are, but nothing in that quote from the artical had shit to do with building up any tolerance to testosterone.



my flaming your point of view would suggest (at least to most people) that i maintain a point of view that opposes yours..

taking 500mg of test E a week will only produce so many results because you are only taking so much of the drug, and it only possesses so much power (not because your body develops a tolerance to one of its primary hormones................)

.. if you want more results, you need to take more of it.. your gains will diminish if you dont up the dose because you are approaching the maximum potential for gains that 500mg of test E a week will give you.


i hope that makes sense.. i tried to use really small words


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## MattPorter (Aug 14, 2012)

5,6 and 203 is actually a pretty damn big person.....still not justified in irresponsibly using methyls for 12-16 weeks....

-Matt


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## TrojanMan60563 (Aug 14, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> my flaming your point of view would suggest (at least to most people) that i maintain a point of view that opposes yours..
> 
> taking 500mg of test E a week will only produce so many results because you are only taking so much of the drug, and it only possesses so much power (not because your body develops a tolerance to one of its primary hormones................)
> 
> ...



Thanks for the small words my simple mind would understand. I can't see a given dose being the limiting factor to growing or having a response to AAS. What you say seems logical at first. However if gains are dose dependant then why not run 5g a week until your body can't gain from it? I can't give a scientific explanation as to why, but I believe taking breaks from AAS allows for a better response when you start back up. If that better response is not due to a tolerance issue then something else about taking a break allows your body to respond better when you start using again.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> Thanks for the small words my simple mind would understand. *I can't see a given dose being the limiting factor to growing or having a response to AAS.*



ok well.. it is (assuming all other things being equal)



TrojanMan60563 said:


> What you say seems logical at first. However if gains are dose dependant then why not run 5g a week until your body can't gain from it?



it would be extremely unhealthy to run that much for an extended period of time (long enough to no longer see gains from it) 



TrojanMan60563 said:


> I can't give a scientific explanation as to why, but I* believe taking breaks from AAS allows for a better response when you start back up. If that better response is not due to a tolerance issue then something else about taking a break allows your body to respond better when you start using again. *



it's because taking a break makes you lose some/a lot of your gains so when you go back on you have much more to gain than if you just cruised between blasts and didnt lose any mass.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Aug 14, 2012)

We all know taking more brings on faster bigger gains. Nobody really stays on long enough to find the potential of a given dose of anything with the exception of a professional bb'er. This is like beating a dead horse because we don?t see eye to eye on this. I am going to do some research into it and talk to a friend that does know all the science behind this and if he doesn't have the answer he will know where to find it. If I can find something supporting my opinion I'll share.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> We all know taking more brings on faster bigger gains. Nobody really stays on long enough to find the potential of a given dose of anything with the exception of a professional bb'er. This is like beating a dead horse because we don?t see eye to eye on this. *I am going to do some research into it and talk to a friend that does know all the science behind this and if he doesn't have the answer he will know where to find it. If I can find something supporting my opinion I'll share. *




ok good then we'll know the answer for sure


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## jitbjake88 (Aug 14, 2012)

Easy SD he's going to talk to a friend. Haha.

I agree with you SD blast cruise is the way of life.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

jitbjake88 said:


> Easy SD he's going to talk to a friend. Haha.
> 
> I agree with you SD blast cruise is the way of life.




it's the tren talking


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## jitbjake88 (Aug 14, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> it's the tren talking




Nice, I hear you on the tren boss. I just bumped mine up to 75mg ed..


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## girpy (Aug 14, 2012)

Probably going to regret getting in the middle of this but from what I understand the body doesn't build up a tolerance to the testosterone but as muscle gets built your myostatin levels raise which slows down the rate muscle will build which means you need more testosterone (or other substances) to keep gaining muscle. So it is true that eventually you will want to up your dose or gains will slow down, but it isn't due to the receptor burnout or that type of stuff.


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## Wrekem (Aug 14, 2012)

jitbjake88 said:


> Easy SD he's going to talk to a friend. Haha.
> 
> I agree with you SD blast cruise is the way of life.



this. truth.


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## FTW34 (Aug 14, 2012)

This thread got high jacked, looks like im going to drop the orals run tren for maybe 2 more months, PCT and wait 4 months before starting the superdrol/tren/test cycle.


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## FTW34 (Aug 14, 2012)

MattPorter said:


> 5,6 and 203 is actually a pretty damn big person.....still not justified in irresponsibly using methyls for 12-16 weeks....
> 
> -Matt












i feel like most my weight comes from my legs. You know those guys you see that are jacked with no legs? im like that only the opposite. ive been complimented on my legs alot, but also been told they are disproportionately big to the rest of my body, needless to say i haven't trained them in a long time and they havent shrunk at all


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## TrojanMan60563 (Aug 14, 2012)

jitbjake88 said:


> Easy SD he's going to talk to a friend. Haha.
> 
> I agree with you SD blast cruise is the way of life.



My "friend" has 3 bachelors, 2 masters, and is working on his second PHD from Oxford. He is also a biochemist. He makes anyone on this board, and 99.9% of the population look stupid. I see where you're going with the "his friend" comment, however this friend is legit and brilliant. If I am wrong he'd be the last person on earth to appease me by telling me I'm correct.

I'm also on the blast cruise way of life, or at least I am working towards that since I'm stuck on TRT anyways.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Aug 14, 2012)

Dang FTW34 your calfs are beefy...nothing wrong with strong wheels. I also have been blessed with legs that require little to keep up with the progress of the rest of my body. Blessing and a curse it seems.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

FTW34 said:


> i feel like most my weight comes from my legs. You know those guys you see that are jacked with no legs? im like that only the opposite. ive been complimented on my legs alot, but also been told they are disproportionately big to the rest of my body, needless to say i haven't trained them in a long time and they havent shrunk at all




that's a calf? what the fuck???


more pics lol.. this is weird


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

TrojanMan60563 said:


> My "friend" has 3 bachelors, 2 masters, and is working on his second PHD from Oxford. He is also a biochemist. He makes anyone on this board, and 99.9% of the population look stupid. I see where you're going with the "his friend" comment, however this friend is legit and brilliant. If I am wrong he'd be the last person on earth to appease me by telling me I'm correct.
> 
> I'm also on the blast cruise way of life, or at least I am working towards that since I'm stuck on TRT anyways.



you and him must not hang out much


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## FTW34 (Aug 14, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> that's a calf? what the fuck???
> 
> 
> more pics lol.. this is weird




wierd in what way?


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## TrojanMan60563 (Aug 14, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> you and him must not hang out much




He doesn't hangout often period. He is burried in school and research. I'd give a testicle to have 1/4 of his smarts.


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## Standard Donkey (Aug 14, 2012)

FTW34 said:


> wierd in what way?




that is a serious fucking calf.. basically a cow at this point.



how about pics of ur upper body


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## Idra (Aug 15, 2012)

That sort of looks like seo gone bad to me... No offense and hopefully I'm wrong.  It would be easier to distinguish the shape with more of a full body picture.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Aug 15, 2012)

What do your quads look like?


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## MattPorter (Aug 16, 2012)

Idra said:


> That sort of looks like seo gone bad to me... No offense and hopefully I'm wrong.  It would be easier to distinguish the shape with more of a full body picture.




You obviously have no clue what SEO looks like a this dude id rocking LOW insertions and diamond shaped calves --- completely genetic gift were viewing here. You cant "make" these calves --- you either got em or you dont.....

Now if he has high insertions that looked like bowling balls that dont flex.....then SEO is a culprit most likely.

-Matt


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## Pharmacologist (Aug 16, 2012)

If you don't want to stop, then just stay "on" lol.


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## Pharmacologist (Aug 16, 2012)

girpy said:


> Probably going to regret getting in the middle of this but from what I understand the body doesn't build up a tolerance to the testosterone but as muscle gets built your myostatin levels raise which slows down the rate muscle will build which means you need more testosterone (or other substances) to keep gaining muscle. So it is true that eventually you will want to up your dose or gains will slow down, but it isn't due to the receptor burnout or that type of stuff.




Or add peptides, gh, or slin, or 2 of the 3, or all 3, etc.


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## Diesel618 (Aug 19, 2012)

SD is a douchebag and comes off as very condescending but what he is saying is interesting and something I did not know and I give him props for posting up the literature to back his claims. The point I think he is trying to make, on the most basic level, is that when you introduce supraphysiological doses of exogenous androgens, the body creates additional androgen receptors. Much in the same way that when you introduce opiates, the brain creates additional opiate receptors. 

As far as the OP's cycle, holy shit. Not saying what to do, as I've never gotten to experience something like that. I'm sure it's fun, but Hell man. Be logical. You wanna be doin this for at least another decade or two I assume. Can't do it all in one cycle. Save the test/tren/superdrol for next time bro.


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## Diesel618 (Aug 19, 2012)

By the way, FTW, do/did you play football? You have the numbers to be a decent running back. 5'6", 200 lbs with strong wheels. I know you'd at least look like one.


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## MattPorter (Aug 19, 2012)

If you wish not to come off --- get on 300 mgs a week of testosterone E. 

Or if your rich --- cruise on 4 AndroMass gels a day of 3 pumps of AndroEnhance Gel a day....

-Matt


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## SupaSwole (Aug 21, 2012)

FUCK IT... Up your tren dose..


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## Goodskie (Aug 21, 2012)

SupaSwole said:


> FUCK IT... Up your tren dose..




Lmao this


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## Goodskie (Aug 21, 2012)

MattPorter said:


> If you wish not to come off --- get on 300 mgs a week of testosterone E.
> 
> Or if your rich --- cruise on 4 AndroMass gels a day of 3 pumps of AndroEnhance Gel a day....
> 
> -Matt




Bunk


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## strength within (Aug 26, 2012)

I think what SD is saying that the study shows that over time androgen receptors actually became upregulated and increased in number after the asministrations of testosterone. Therefore, one could argue that androgen receptor density will increase the longer you are on a cycle, however, gains will diminish over time of a cycle if the dose is maintained due to myostatin levels climbing in response to the large amounts of androgen being pumped into the system. Your body's checks and balances in response to you flooding it with de roidz. Or i
m wrong and I should go fuck myslef.....


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## MattPorter (Aug 27, 2012)

Goodskie said:


> Bunk




"bunk" would be 90% of the GH and UGL steroids that are currently available --- that is the truth in the current state of things unfortunately.

If you have a nice connect -- sure I agree go for it.

If you do not -- the products I listed are the last thing from 'bunk' as testing is done to verify hormones.

-Matt


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## jay_steel (Aug 27, 2012)

^^^ not my cup of tea but he speaks the truth. Great stuff for beginners or people that do not want to risk the legality of AAS


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## MattPorter (Sep 10, 2012)

jay_steel said:


> ^^^ not my cup of tea but he speaks the truth. Great stuff for beginners or people that do not want to risk the legality of AAS



That is a very respectable response and shows you actually understand that these are valid options.

-Matt


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## overburdened (Sep 11, 2012)

Vibrant said:


> Get some bloodwork to check how everything looks like.



^^^here's some great advice, OP...  I think this got buried in the thread and completely went unnoticed!!!  Do this, then make an informed decision on what's next...  you may well be young enogh it didn't COMPLETELY screw you up... but if you see the slightest inkling of trouble in your labs, it would be smart to do what everyone else has said... either blast and cruise, or come off and wait  but that is a personal decision you  must make that may very well screw up the rest of your life!  think about it before you do it!  
and bro, there is a point, if you don't take some time off the high doses, that you will quit getting as good of gains til you do!  it is not due to a 'tolerance' you build because high androgen levels actually lead to MORE receptors and LOWER SHBG levels....  ]
but you don't just keep gaining forever, you must give your body somewhat  of a break, whether it's kicking it down a notch and cruising on test, or whether it's hitting pct, and waiting for next cycle...   that part is up to you


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## MattPorter (Sep 11, 2012)

I am not so sure I would come completely OFF for too long if the goal is to progress forward --- I would say cruising on TRT would be ones best interest and taking all the precautionary health supplements while cruising and getting everything looking good on blood work.

-Matt


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## Pharmacologist (Sep 11, 2012)

MattPorter said:


> I am not so sure I would come completely OFF for too long if the goal is to progress forward --- I would say cruising on TRT would be ones best interest and taking all the precautionary health supplements while cruising and getting everything looking good on blood work.
> 
> -Matt




I agree 100%


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## Spons pop (Nov 4, 2013)

*Pct*

Hi

The 16 week cycle is one of the best ways to go hard into the game and also to get great gains. Being 16 weeks on and then 16 weeks off before getting into your new cycle is going to fuck your cycle up trust me... I have been competing for 6 years now and I have learned the hard way. get yourself a good PCT for about 3 weeks just to get the Juice out of your system and also to recover natural test levels. In this way after the PCT you can hit another 16 week cycle. Just take 2 of your products and change it with something else. You don't want to get your body used to the same stuff, otherwise your body wont respond to it. Hope the info helps


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