# An average sized wolf vs. an average sized man



## AKIRA (Jun 24, 2010)

When I first moved into my 2 roommate's place, they had this debate going on.  Who would win in a fight between a man and a wolf.  Both were on opposite ends.  Many, many elements came up.  So I am graduating this topic to IM, because when you think about this, its a simple subject made complicated.

First off, its 1 vs 1.  The man has no partners, the wolf has no pack.
No weapons.
It is to the death.  No escaping.
It is in a safe environment.  The climate nor surroundings have NO influence of the fight.  

Points that came up during our discussion:
-Panic.  "The man would prolly panic."  Not necessarily.  Its an average man, not a sick one.  This man is not dumb, but not a genius.  He knows going in, its either him or the wolf.  He knows he must fight or die.  The wolf wont panic.  It relies on instinct and andrenaline.  The man has adrenaline too, only the difference is intelligence.

-Weapons.  "The man cant win without a knife"  Why?  The wolf will bite and grab and pull and tear, but thats it.  Once the wolf's jaw is in use, its taken up.  The man has more natural weapons thanks to his thumbs and elbow flexion.  Also, wolves hunt in packs.  How good are they alone?

-Agility.  "The wolf will grab the neck."  True.  However this man isnt dumb and knows he can die.  Its safe to say he knows _how _he can die and defend against it.  But the wolf is more agile and will probably know how to get the neck better than the man can defend it naturally.  With the man's more natural weapons, he could defend and grab the wolf's neck.  Not to mention, a man can fight off his back.

-Size.  This is a tricky one.  Looking up the average size of a wolf came up around a ~120lb mark.  Finding an average man put his slightly heavier.  As far as muscle type and placement goes, no one knows.

-Killing Instinct.  Wolf has the advantage here.  However, with the given circumstances, does it matter since were this far?


I brought this up in classrooms and what I found that people that didnt even give it a moment's thought said "Wolf."  Whereas people who took a moment and thought about it, they said "Man."

Vote your answer and explain why if it hasnt already been detailed.


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## KelJu (Jun 24, 2010)

The average bite pressure for a wolf is 600 psi. A German Shepard is the most popular and commonly used police assist attack dog. It's bite pressure is only 200 psi. almost 99% of the time, the German Shepard whoops ass over various criminal assailants who often times have weapons. 

A wolf's bite can break bones and rip connective tissues. A wolf is a natural born killer and predator with instinctual fighting abilities. 

A human without a weapon is a wet paper sack. Only way I see a human beating a wolf is if that human has a lot of experience fighting wolves, and has trained for it. Which brings our only natural weapon into play: out brains.


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## DOMS (Jun 24, 2010)

No weapons?  The man dies every time.


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## tucker01 (Jun 24, 2010)

KelJu said:


> The average bite pressure for a wolf is 600 psi. A German Shepard is the most popular and commonly used police assist attack dog. It's bite pressure is only 200 psi. almost 99% of the time, the German Shepard whoops ass over various criminal assailants who often times have weapons.
> 
> A wolf's bite can break bones and rip connective tissues. A wolf is a natural born killer and predator with instinctual fighting abilities.
> 
> A human without a weapon is a wet paper sack. Only way I see a human beating a wolf is if that human has a lot of experience fighting wolves, and has trained for it. Which brings our only natural weapon into play: out brains.



What he said.

It amazes me how people think physically they are so superior then animals.  And here I thought we were mentally superior, maybe I should rethink that


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## I Are Baboon (Jun 24, 2010)

One bite from the wolf anywhere on the man's body would inflict so much pain that the man would be rendered useless.  The man would need both arms and both legs to have any shot at winning, and a single good bite from the wolf would take out one of those appendages.  I don't think gouging the wolf's eye would have any impact.  Your only chance would be to choke the wolf out, and good luck with that.


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## I Are Baboon (Jun 24, 2010)

This thread needs a picture of a wolf t-shirt.


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## bio-chem (Jun 24, 2010)

I Are Baboon said:


> One bite from the wolf anywhere on the man's body would inflict so much pain that the man would be rendered useless.  The man would need both arms and both legs to have any shot at winning, and a single good bite from the wolf would take out one of those appendages.  I don't think gouging the wolf's eye would have any impact.  Your only chance would be to choke the wolf out, and good luck with that.



this right here. +1

I'm a 180lb man 6'1"  of above average strength. I've wrestled big dogs that were completely friendly to me and I had a hard time getting the neck to choke the dog. and this was a dog that was not biting to do damage. 

under the conditions stated I don't see a scenario where an average man of average intelligence wins against an average wolf


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## Hoglander (Jun 24, 2010)

If you could trick the wolf into biting your arm off you could use the jagged protruding bone as weapon!


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## FMJ (Jun 24, 2010)

I vote for the wolf as well. I have a measly 65 pound german shepherd and a game of tug o war will cleary show the strength to size ratio grealty yeilds advantage to the animal. As for a choke out, the necks are so muscular and agile, they'll get out of most any head lock and if they can't, they'll start gouging your flesh with thier rear claws. Dogs (and I assume wolves) also have a much greater tolerance for pain so you may hurt the wolf but it will not deter, but hurt the human, confidence is lost, fear grips the mind, mistakes are made, human is then converted to a meal.


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## AKIRA (Jun 24, 2010)

Are you guys implying that a wolf only has 1 weapon?  Say you are able to avoid your neck getting bit and it has your arm.  With bite pressure being discussed (it wasnt before so good info) does the bite go all the way through like scissors to a sheet of paper?  Of is there tugging, adjustment, twisted, the whole sha-bang.  While that arm is being bit, what are the other limbs doing?  Pulling back making the tear worse?  Nah, I dont think so.  

This is a WHAT IF topic, but WHAT IF answers cant apply.  If they did, then its possible that the man can win.

IanDainel spits out the usual banter when it comes to nature vs. man.  However, this 'event' has never been done on camera nor would it.  I am sure its happened, but no one really knows cuz no one really witnessed it.

I think it is best to put yourself in the same situation as it is harder to just submit to this.  In fact, you could say you were defending something of value like, say, your child, your family, your car, whatever is valuable.  Are you going to say:  Oh well fuck it.  I am dead.  Or are you going to try?  What would you do?

Videos that I have seen of dogs attacking people are usually people that are pathetic, weak, and well basically, didnt know it was coming.  They had no way to plan for this.  Man innately could and would whereas the wolf is just getting food or defending itself.


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## AKIRA (Jun 24, 2010)

FMJ said:


> I vote for the wolf as well. I have a measly 65 pound german shepherd and a game of tug o war will cleary show the strength to size ratio grealty yeilds advantage to the animal. As for a choke out, the necks are so muscular and agile, they'll get out of most any head lock and if they can't, they'll start gouging your flesh with thier rear claws. Dogs (and I assume wolves) also have a much greater tolerance for pain so you may hurt the wolf but it will not deter, but hurt the human, confidence is lost, fear grips the mind, mistakes are made, human is then converted to a meal.



Their claws are mostly for digging.  Theyd help, like in a game of tug n war, but rolling around?  I dont know.


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## AKIRA (Jun 24, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> this right here. +1
> 
> I'm a 180lb man 6'1"  of above average strength. I've wrestled big dogs that were completely friendly to me and I had a hard time getting the neck to choke the dog. and this was a dog that was not biting to do damage.
> 
> under the conditions stated I don't see a scenario where an average man of average intelligence wins against an average wolf



To each his own.  Ive done it too and the neck was easy to grab and even easier to hold because of the hair.  There are no sweat glands so limited chance of slippage.


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## AKIRA (Jun 24, 2010)

I Are Baboon said:


> One bite from the wolf anywhere on the man's body would inflict so much pain that the man would be rendered useless.  The man would need both arms and both legs to have any shot at winning, and a single good bite from the wolf would take out one of those appendages.  I don't think gouging the wolf's eye would have any impact.  Your only chance would be to choke the wolf out, and good luck with that.



Agreed.  Id say you would need 2 of a pair, but it depends on the damage.

How good is the aim of a wolf?  It could miss and give man a chance to strike.  In fact, I think this is man's biggest chance.  However, if he didnt miss, I dont know if pain would be that severe.  Not doubting you, I just really dont know, Ive not been bitten by a wolf.  I do know that Ive been pretty angry before and not felt bones broken.  I can safely assume that if he had enough anxiety, adrenaline, anger, knowing that this was do or die, the man may not feel as much as youd think.  Especially if afferent nerves are cut and not the efferent.


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## AKIRA (Jun 24, 2010)

KelJu said:


> The average bite pressure for a wolf is 600 psi. A German Shepard is the most popular and commonly used police assist attack dog. It's bite pressure is only 200 psi. almost 99% of the time, the German Shepard whoops ass over various criminal assailants who often times have weapons.
> 
> A wolf's bite can break bones and rip connective tissues. A wolf is a natural born killer and predator with instinctual fighting abilities.
> 
> A human without a weapon is a wet paper sack. Only way I see a human beating a wolf is if that human has a lot of experience fighting wolves, and has trained for it. Which brings our only natural weapon into play: out brains.



A quick search on the internet came up with a 400psi rating.  However, I dont know how this would work in a battle.  I do know that that closer you keep to the bite, if it lands, meaning you dont like the wolf create distance from the bite, will prevent tearing.  Unless the bite cuts all the way through, you could probably grab the neck while the forearm would be...bait?

The neck is a clear cut winner for both, but the mobility in the wolf's legs are limited.  How much abduction/adduction can they perform?  Might be easy to break them..


I am glad you guys are thinking about this.


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## FMJ (Jun 24, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> Their claws are mostly for digging. Theyd help, like in a game of tug n war, but rolling around? I dont know.


 
Perhaps... but I'm just sugesting what I've seen my dog do. When I hold her down on her back (playing of course) she kicks with her hind paws. She has already scratched me enough to bleed and she was just playing around. All the while tring to bite my hands and wrists.. not in one spot.. but in a variety of places. As if she was trying to get me to move them to a vulnerable place. She's definitly testing me while wrestling me at the same time. A wolf, desperate enough to eat me or defend itself from me, would still be using it's brain in an attempt to gain advantage. I know it's not in the conginitive way we would do it but it's still a "smart" animal.


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## AKIRA (Jun 24, 2010)

FMJ said:


> Perhaps... but I'm just sugesting what I've seen my dog do. When I hold her down on her back (playing of course) she kicks with her hind paws. She has already scratched me enough to bleed and she was just playing around. All the while tring to bite my hands and wrists.. not in one spot.. but in a variety of places. As if she was trying to get me to move them to a vulnerable place. She's definitly testing me while wrestling me at the same time. A wolf, desperate enough to eat me or defend itself from me, would still be using it's brain in an attempt to gain advantage. I know it's not in the conginitive way we would do it but it's still a "smart" animal.



Ahhh, I see your example now.  Interesting point.  Just as a man would, I thin the wolf would fight off its back only if it had to and do what it could to regain position.

Dont forget man's other weapons, his fingers.  Not sure if it would do much, but if you can gouge out an eye, split the nose, or tear an ear (every dog Ive done that too whimpers) its 3 things a man can grab thanks to thumbs that a wolf cannot.

The man may be bit multiple times, but if he can blind it or tear its nose off, the wolf maybe preoccupied with that while the man can make its move.


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## Little Wing (Jun 24, 2010)

if you have ever read anything about wolves attacking men, and yes lone wolves, you will find out wolves like to get behind you and knock you on the ground. they also will do as much damage to your hands and feet as they can to "unarm" you. they are smart and they kill to survive. 

no one has voted man yet.


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## maniclion (Jun 24, 2010)

My small 35lb dog bit me accidentally on the ankle when I tried to break him and his brother up from fighting.  He latched on to my achilles and the inner ball of the ankle and sunk his teeth in.....I had to limp directly after it hurt so bad.  I can only imagine what a wolf would to a mans limbs especially at the joints.  My neighbor had a pet coyote he'd raised after it got hit by  a car.  He would throw a thick bone to it and all you heard was crack, crack, crack as it tore in to get the marrow....

I give huge odds to the wolf winning every time but if the man were smart he would wrap his shirt or jacket around his arm, lure the dog to lunge at that and then kick it in the nuts....from there the man can kick it in the throat, try to tie the shirt like a gag, and then wail on the wolfs head with kicks until he knocks it out.....


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## maniclion (Jun 24, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> Ahhh, I see your example now.  Interesting point.  Just as a man would, I thin the wolf would fight off its back only if it had to and do what it could to regain position.
> 
> Dont forget man's other weapons, his fingers.  Not sure if it would do much, but if you can gouge out an eye, split the nose, or tear an ear (every dog Ive done that too whimpers) its 3 things a man can grab thanks to thumbs that a wolf cannot.
> 
> The man may be bit multiple times, but if he can blind it or tear its nose off, the wolf maybe preoccupied with that while the man can make its move.


With out a weapon how is the man going to gouge an eye, or 
rip off a nose?  You stated average man, not a Phonebook ripping musclehead, or snatch the pebble from my hand monk......you obviously haven't done much play fighting with a dog, you try to touch a dogs head and they just turn the muzzle and have you by the wrist or forearm.  I play slap boxing games with my Belgian Malinois, closest to a wolf as I have and she is fucking swift as hell....


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## KentDog (Jun 24, 2010)

To add to most of the points already mentioned.. isn't the average man nowadays sort of wussy?


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## Dark Geared God (Jun 24, 2010)

Jam your fist down its mouth and break his spine


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## CORUM (Jun 24, 2010)

honestly it depends..... it has been documented that wolves have helped out mankind. and if this is the case and they have a soft spot for mankind (like k9's which desend from wolves) then a man could take advantage of this. but if the wolf is pissed off, hungry, scared, feels threatened then.... the guy is done!!! if you have a dog in your house say APBT, AST, german shepard, rottweiler, cane corso, dogo argentina, or any other breed like that the only reason your alive and safe in your house is because of that dogs loyalty and love, if not your fucking DONE!!!


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## CORUM (Jun 24, 2010)

another point a timber wolf isnt scared to go toe to toe with a fucking grizzly bear!!!! are u kidding me??? i dont think a man could pull this off


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## I Are Baboon (Jun 24, 2010)

Dude, a fuckin MONKEY ripped a woman's hands and face off.


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## DOMS (Jun 24, 2010)

The Situation said:


> Jam your fist down its mouth and break his spine



I don't know if you're joking, but this might be a viable defence. Jamming your hand down its throat and choking it might work.


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## Dark Geared God (Jun 24, 2010)

DOMS said:


> I don't know if you're joking, but this might be a viable defence. Jamming your hand down its throat and choking it might work.


it works on large dogs they can't lock there jaw and build pressure..don't ask how i know....


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## bio-chem (Jun 24, 2010)

in my mind the average man is 5'10" and 280 of solid flab. he has never seen a punch thrown and if he tried to throw a punch would probably pull a muscle in his back. his only course of action if an average wolf showed up would be to shit himself and smear it all over his body in the hopes that the wolf does not like to eat human feces. otherwise he is done for.


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## CORUM (Jun 24, 2010)

The Situation said:


> it works on large dogs they can't lock there jaw and build pressure..don't ask how i know....



scientifically proven dogs CANNOT lock their jaws, even the notorious pit bull!!


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## FMJ (Jun 24, 2010)

I think in theory, a man could inflict considerable damage to a wolf. The pounding on the nose thing I've heard before. Dog's at least would be detered by this.. at least long enough to get the drop on them. 
The fist down the throat.. I dunno. Plausible, not probable. 
The catch to any of these is getting yourself close enough to strike. Then you have to be prepared if the animal out maneuvers you (likely) and possibly receiving a strike... which honestly could be the begining of the end.


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## maniclion (Jun 24, 2010)

Dude a wolf can crack a moose's femur with it's jaw strength, plus they have incredible stamina.....my dogs have lightning reflexes and they don't have to depend on them to survive in the wild.....if a white tail deer can stomp a man unconscious what chance would an unarmed man have against a predator of the white tail deer?


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## Dark Geared God (Jun 24, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> in my mind the average man is 5'10" and 280 of solid flab. he has never seen a punch thrown and if he tried to throw a punch would probably pull a muscle in his back. his only course of action if an average wolf showed up would be to shit himself and smear it all over his body in the hopes that the wolf does not like to eat human feces. otherwise he is done for.


 
true ..but what if they were from the streets..


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## Dark Geared God (Jun 24, 2010)

maniclion said:


> Dude a wolf can crack a moose's femur with it's jaw strength, plus they have incredible stamina.....my dogs have lightning reflexes and they don't have to depend on them to survive in the wild.....if a white tail deer can stomp a man unconscious what chance would an unarmed man have against a predator of the white tail deer?


 
i have yet to see man or beast beable to attack  with a fist jammed down in there mouth. plus the choking factor of the fist in the wolfs mouth..it wouldn't beable to clamp down...


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## bio-chem (Jun 24, 2010)

The Situation said:


> true ..but what if they were from the streets..



the streets? you mean one of those illiterate, inbred types who only know how to fight in groups or while armed? the kind of individual who if armed holds the gun incorrectly and more often than not hits the by-stander he wasn't aiming at, or ends up shooting himself in the leg? Give me the feces camoed blob for 1000 alex


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## bio-chem (Jun 24, 2010)

The Situation said:


> i have yet to see man or beast beable to attack  with a fist jammed down in there mouth. plus the choking factor of the fist in the wolfs mouth..it wouldn't beable to clamp down...



I think a wolfs jaws are faster than a humans desire to force his hand down the throat. what i mean is as the fist entered the mouth i think the wolf would bite down preventing further entry and severely damaging the hand, if not removing it entirely.

I consider myself of above average intelligence and strength.  superior to the individual presented in this hypothetical scenario.  I feel if it was me vs the wolf I would die quickly. at least I hope it would be quickly


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## FMJ (Jun 24, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> I think a wolfs jaws are faster than a humans desire to force his hand down the throat. what i mean is as the fist entered the mouth i think the wolf would bite down preventing further entry and severely damaging the hand, if not removing it entirely.
> 
> I consider myself of above average intelligence and strength. superior to the individual presented in this hypothetical scenario. I feel if it was me vs the wolf I would die quickly. at least I hope it would be quickly


 
If you can call being eaten alive, starting at the neck quick.


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## Dark Geared God (Jun 24, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> the streets? you mean one of those illiterate, inbred types who only know how to fight in groups or while armed? the kind of individual who if armed holds the gun incorrectly and more often than not hits the by-stander he wasn't aiming at, or ends up shooting himself in the leg? Give me the feces camoed blob for 1000 alex


 
No


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## Dark Geared God (Jun 24, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> I think a wolfs jaws are faster than a humans desire to force his hand down the throat. what i mean is as the fist entered the mouth i think the wolf would bite down preventing further entry and severely damaging the hand, if not removing it entirely.
> 
> I consider myself of above average intelligence and strength. superior to the individual presented in this hypothetical scenario. I feel if it was me vs the wolf I would die quickly. at least I hope it would be quickly


 
I think you would be surprised at the human body..being shot at for one most people in combat or others don't know if they have been shot..if you never faced life and death i don't mean when your waiting in the line a Bk and a big black guy cut in front of you and you say something.when your life is on the line But...unless we try it well you know you lose already you know your going to die so whats the point just lay down and be done with it ...


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## bio-chem (Jun 24, 2010)

which one of you fags voted that you suck dick?


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## Dark Geared God (Jun 24, 2010)

Saney did


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## bio-chem (Jun 24, 2010)

The Situation said:


> I think you would be surprised at the human body..being shot at for one most people in combat or others don't know if they have been shot..if you never faced life and death i don't mean when your waiting in the line a Bk and a big black guy cut in front of you and you say something.when your life is on the line But...unless we try it well you know you lose already you know your going to die so whats the point just lay down and be done with it ...



im not talking about a 62 grn bullet traveling at 4000fps. I'm talking about a 120lb wolf eating my hand off. I've been bitten by a dog. I knew everytime


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## CORUM (Jun 24, 2010)

*the streets????*



The Situation said:


> true ..but what if they were from the streets..



*REALLY*??? i have seen some of those fake ass from the streets wanna be thugs that THINK they can throw!!! let me tell you that is some FUNNY ass shit!!! you seen the mascot for notre dame right??? thats the stance they in BUT LEAN back as far away from a punch as you can, and then start throwing WEAK ass shoulder punches at much of nothing while ducking and dodging from much of nothing (since they leaned back so far) try to avoid getting hit..... you mean THOSE weak ass, no fighting, ghetto ass, wanna be thugs????? I really dont think a wolf would even waste his time, he would probably lose LAUGHING so much at those stupid MF'ers.......... those FROM THA STREETS??????


in short....... "dont step in the ring with ALI, just cause u THINK you can box!!"


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## DiGiTaL (Jun 24, 2010)

This bitch in Canada has a pet wolf. 

Bitch be trippin!


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## lnvanry (Jun 24, 2010)

Man has tools...and to say a man isn't allowed to use a tool (or a makeshift weapon) is pretty much like saying "no biting" from a wolf.

Tools and impromptu weapons win...but if the man isn't allowed to use his greatest strength, then of course he's toast.


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## AKIRA (Jun 24, 2010)

^ His greatest strength is problem solving.  So far, no one has given him credit and 100% of the voters are men.

2 pages now and I find it kind of odd that no one is on the man's side, even by accident.  

Werdrum is fighting Fedor this saturday and that should be a landslide, but if Fedor lost, I can guess how.  

Is a wolf really all that mighty?  Then why do they need packs?


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## Mudge (Jun 24, 2010)

It would be pretty easy for a kanine of almost any kind to wriggle its way free of a choke hold, I'd say 90% of the time wolf wins over man - for many reasons. Shock factor and things mentioned above... most men wouldn't stand a chance. Once a mans neck is breached, its over. Almost anything else, shock and pain.


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## Little Wing (Jun 25, 2010)

i've been bitten by dogs 3 times in my life never a serious bite but in all 3 instances it happened so fast there was only time to react after the fact. 







\

 Grey wolves, also called timber wolves, are huge powerful animals.


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## Little Wing (Jun 25, 2010)

this is how big a wolf is...





one this size is not a fluke.


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## Little Wing (Jun 25, 2010)

people probably would pay astronomical amounts to actually see this fight to the death. it'd be short and horrific. wolf attack reports say things like "his nose was dangling" "the whole left side of his face was missing" they are often speaking lone wolf and it's _never_ the wolf's injury they are speaking of.


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## Little Wing (Jun 25, 2010)

one guy wrestles a wolf out to have him for dinner and survives... 

http://www.wildlife-enhancement.ca/Whats New_42.htm

[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]January  4, 2005 
 [/FONT]                                   [FONT=Book Antiqua, Times  New Roman, Times]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/FONT]
                       [FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New  Roman, Times]CREDIT: Greg Pender, The StarPhoenix[/FONT]
                       Fred Desjarlais shows one of several wolf bites he          received on New Year's Eve










     A Saskatoon man's evening jog became a struggle for his life in  northern  Saskatchewan when a timber wolf lunged at his head and sunk its teeth  into his  leg.
 With his adrenaline surging, Fred Desjarlais, 55, was able to fight  off  several attacks by the large predator before jumping on its back and  wrestling  it into submission long enough for a passing busload of co-workers to  arrive and  scare the beast away...

"I don't know what  came over me or how I did it. All I know is I had his head  and I wasn't letting go until someone came to help me," said Desjarlais,  a  soft-spoken man who works for Cameco Corp.'s uranium milling facility in  Key  Lake, about 640 kilometres north of Saskatoon.
 He was recovering Monday at his Saskatoon home and suffering from  bouts of  post-traumatic stress that have stolen his sleep.
 "I try not to dwell on it too much or I can't rest at all," said  Desjarlais,  who is planning on seeing a specialist this week for help.
 At one point in the tilt, he and the wolf were face to face as the  beast went  up on its hind legs and looked down at Desjarlais.
 "He had a big mouth and a big head, I know that much."
 "It was a bad attack -- it bit him twice really badly -- but Fred's a   remarkable man and very heroic," said Kimm Barker, Cameco's Key Lake  safety  officer. "It wasn't a very smart wolf because of all the people it could  have  picked, it chose one of the strongest."
 It was New Year's Eve and Desjarlais had just finished his shift at 7  p.m.  Instead of catching the shuttle back to the camp facility (temporary  residence  for workers) he decided to jog the three kilometres. Along the way he  heard  something and glanced back just as the animal crept out of the ditch and  walked  toward him.
 "He was taunting me, (walking) in a circle around me," Desjarlais  said. "I  looked around real quick and thought, 'I hope he's alone.' He was as far  as I  could see."
 Desjarlais hollered and tried to scare the animal off but then it  lunged at  his head. He jumped to the side and dodged it but the wolf came back.
 "That's when I knew he meant business," said Desjarlais, who eluded a  second  lunge but the wolf quickly spun around and got to the man's back, biting  into  his shoulder area.
 Fortunately, Desjarlais was wearing several layers of clothing which  prevented the bite from breaking the skin, but it did leave significant  bruising. The wolf then turned its attention to Desjarlais' lower body  and  ripped into his jeans, biting twice around the pelvic area.
 "He knew he was in deep trouble so he jumped on the wolf's back and  tried to  subdue it," said Barker.
 They both fell over and got back up. When his chance came again,  Desjarlais  made good. He locked onto the wolf's back and threw his arms around the  animal's  head, putting it into a headlock.
 "I pulled him down the way you would take down cattle (for roping)  and I  dropped onto his head, pinning him there," said Desjarlais, who held on  30-40  seconds before coworkers returning to camp on the bus spotted the pair.
 "He was pretty much at the end of his string. His strength was  draining,"  said Barker.
 The men jumped out and scared the wolf away then carried Desjarlais  into one  of the on-site medical facilities. He also suffered numerous scrapes and  bruises  from rolling around.
 He was stitched and transferred by air ambulance to Saskatoon's Royal   University Hospital (RUH) where he was treated and released without  needing to  be admitted overnight.
 "He may not be the tallest guy around -- he's only 5-foot-9 -- but  Fred is  extremely strong. He manhandled this thing," Barker said. "If it had  happened to  anybody else, we wouldn't have had quite as good of an outcome. Fred  probably  saved somebody else's life because if it wasn't him it would have been  the next  guy on the road."
 Barker estimates the wolf weighed "at least" 100 pounds and was  taller than  Desjarlais when it stood on its hind legs.
 "It's a big dog. And it was extremely aggressive," he said. "And the  canine  teeth which bit into Fred were at least an inch long."
 Wolves are common to the Key Lake site but it is rare they interact  with the  people. Most travel in packs and run from humans.
 "But if they get kicked out of the pack for some reason or leave the  pack  because they are ill, that's when they become a problem," said Barker.
 There is the occasional incident, such as in 1984 when one animal ran  up and  stole a sandwich from the hand of a worker. They are probably attracted  by the  readily available food. Although garbage is dumped and covered, the  animals dig  it up.
 "We're not supposed to burn it for environmental reasons," said  Barker.
 The wolf that attacked Desjarlais was tracked that same night with no  luck.  The next day, it was located near the site of the incident, sitting in  the same  place.
 It was shot and killed and is being sent to a Saskatchewan  Environment lab  for testing. Fluid samples collected from the area of the attack and  from  Desjarlais will be used to match against the animal that was shot.
 Desjarlais has told Cameco that he'll return to work next week, as  long as it  doesn't interfere with the rabies shots and other medications he must  take.
© The  StarPhoenix  (Saskatoon) 2005​


it's NOT impossible the man would win, just unlikely. not to be rude but this guys fat protected him too i think.


----------



## Little Wing (Jun 25, 2010)

i seriously would be rooting for the wolf.


----------



## Little Wing (Jun 25, 2010)

a cougar hmmmm  i tried to help a feral housecat and was scared shitless of the thing.


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## maniclion (Jun 25, 2010)

"Desjarlais was wearing several layers of clothing which prevented the bite from breaking the skin,"  Hence why I said wrap your shirt around your arm...
And he only had to subdue it for 30-40 seconds until the workers came to scare it off...those mark on his triceps and faterals look like claw marks from some hind leg kicks, given more time he wold have released the wolf as the claws tore at his sides...take it from a guy who has to wrestle his dog into the bath tub...


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## SYN (Jun 25, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> one guy wrestles a wolf out to have him for dinner and survives...
> 
> http://www.wildlife-enhancement.ca/Whats New_42.htm
> 
> ...



Fat, clothing and buddies. If it weren't for those three factors this guy would be dead.  

I've had my friends dog (a husky, and a runt) hurt me pretty good before just playing.  And like 5 years ago my ex's pitt bull bit me (definitely NOT playing), at the end of it's rope, and through my jeans with just it's very front teeth, drew blood and hurt like a son of a whore.  So I find it hard to believe that a wolf wouldn't be able to rip the average man to shreds.  Like bio said, the average sized man is either 6'1" and 140 pounds of solid shit, or 6'1" and 240 lbs of flab.  No chance.   An above average man....maybe.  IMO


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## bio-chem (Jun 25, 2010)

maniclion said:


> .take it from a guy who has to wrestle his dog into the bath tub...



hahahah


----------



## NeilPearson (Jun 25, 2010)

maniclion said:


> With out a weapon how is the man going to gouge an eye, or
> rip off a nose?  You stated average man, not a Phonebook ripping musclehead, or snatch the pebble from my hand monk......you obviously haven't done much play fighting with a dog, you try to touch a dogs head and they just turn the muzzle and have you by the wrist or forearm.  I play slap boxing games with my Belgian Malinois, closest to a wolf as I have and she is fucking swift as hell....



Yes the eyes and ears are really close to the mouth.  If you start going for one it just takes a slight turn of the wolves head and snap... no more fingers


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## DOMS (Jun 25, 2010)

Hugging shows you care. 



Little Wing said:


>


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## Little Wing (Jun 25, 2010)

to clarify, i didn't mean i'd root for the wolf in an unprovoked human attack i mean in a fight to the death battle set up by men. i'd root for a duck in a duck vs man match set up by men. 

be funny if somewhere right now a bunch of wolves are laying around arguing if they could kill a man in a fair fight.


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## NeilPearson (Jun 25, 2010)

DiGiTaL said:


> This bitch in Canada has a pet wolf.
> 
> Bitch be trippin!



Lots of people have wolf dogs... part wolf anyway


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## CORUM (Jun 25, 2010)

Richard Gears said:


> I think a very well trained 65 lb pitbull with some serious game instinct could kill a 125 lb + wolf.



you would be correct my friend!!!


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## NeilPearson (Jun 25, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> ^ His greatest strength is problem solving.  So far, no one has given him credit and 100% of the voters are men.
> 
> 2 pages now and I find it kind of odd that no one is on the man's side, even by accident.
> 
> ...



Because their prey would kick our ass too


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## CORUM (Jun 25, 2010)

little wing those are some BIG ASS wolves u posted!!!


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## CORUM (Jun 25, 2010)

NeilPearson said:


> Because their prey would kick our ass too



also because they are intelligent animals, fight smarter not harder


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## Little Wing (Jun 25, 2010)

CORUM said:


> you would be correct my friend!!!



i had a huge apbt that would jump on cars to get away from the neighbors chihuahua but when someone attacked my bf he was all over the guy. they are great dogs but this has been widely debated online with most votes being given to the wolf.


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## NeilPearson (Jun 25, 2010)

maniclion said:


> "Desjarlais was wearing several layers of clothing which prevented the bite from breaking the skin,"  Hence why I said wrap your shirt around your arm...
> And he only had to subdue it for 30-40 seconds until the workers came to scare it off...those mark on his triceps and faterals look like claw marks from some hind leg kicks, given more time he wold have released the wolf as the claws tore at his sides...take it from a guy who has to wrestle his dog into the bath tub...



New years eve in Canada... yup you can bet he wore layers

This wasn't an average guy either.  He was on a 3k run.  Most average guys don't do this.  He made reference to tackling the wolf like you would take down cattle.  It sounds like he has rodeo experience... and not surprising with where he is from.

Even with this, he did zero damage to the wolf.  He just managed to get behind him and hold off his attacks for a while and it said his strength was draining.  If it was truly a fight to the death and the wolf didn't run away when a bunch of other people showed up, the wolf would have eventually gotten free and would have taken him out


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## CORUM (Jun 25, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> i had a huge apbt that would jump on cars to get away from the neighbors chihuahua but when someone attacked my bf he was all over the guy. they are great dogs but this has been widely debated online with most votes being given to the wolf.



seen it in person..... there are VERY FEW true fighting pits any more. of course this was like 20 years ago!! most people would shit themselves they seen a TRUE fighting dog grab ahold of another dog. seen a pit charge a rottwieler and the rott went up to lock up with the pit, the pit went low, grabbed its stomach ripped and kept running through the rott like a football move and out came the guts!! the media THINKS they have seen some dogs, you go down south in the backwoods, those hill billy MF'ers got some damn dogs!!!!

i have owned and been around pits for 26 years, seen all types!!! i LOVE those dogs!!! they are truly some of the best you can get. my male a little funny though.... that idiot gets pissed off if a piece of paper moves to fast, then he is ready to GO.... then some times he a lazy lump and just loves EVERYTHING!!!! great with people, not so much dogs (especially if they bigger than him)


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## CORUM (Jun 25, 2010)

here's the goof ball!!!


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## SYN (Jun 25, 2010)

CORUM said:


> seen it in person..... there are VERY FEW true fighting pits any more. of course this was like 20 years ago!! most people would shit themselves they seen a TRUE fighting dog grab ahold of another dog. seen a pit charge a rottwieler and the rott went up to lock up with the pit, the pit went low, grabbed its stomach ripped and kept running through the rott like a football move and out came the guts!! the media THINKS they have seen some dogs, you go down south in the backwoods, those hill billy MF'ers got some damn dogs!!!!
> 
> i have owned and been around pits for 26 years, seen all types!!! i LOVE those dogs!!! they are truly some of the best you can get. my male a little funny though.... that idiot gets pissed off if a piece of paper moves to fast, then he is ready to GO.... then some times he a lazy lump and just loves EVERYTHING!!!! great with people, not so much dogs (especially if they bigger than him)



That post sounds suspiciously like something a dog fighter would say.....


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## Little Wing (Jun 25, 2010)

nice dog. Bogie was a brindle too. when i moved in with Jerry my introduction to the dogs bloody nature, i already knew their sweet nature, was me taking a cat away from them in the back yard the morning after. they immediately agreed i was the boss n let the ruined cat go. a cat is way more trouble than a chihuahua but he never bothered that dog. 

another reason i say the wolf would win against a man was soon after i moved in Bogie n i were the only ones in the house n to try n get me to play he ran down the hall n gave me a little nip on the butt. by the time i turned around he was way down the hall peeking around the corner. was funny as hell. so was watching him in the water he'd scooch his ass down n watch his farts bubble. 





Bogie, Ralph and Raven


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## AKIRA (Jun 25, 2010)

Cool pics, but the fur can be giving off the size illusion.  The heaviest weight ive found on a quick google ride is 177lbs and it states that its a extremely rare case.  Average weight is around 130lbs and that was for a Grey (gray) Wolf.

For men its around 5'9, 160lbs.  However, this is hard to quantify.


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## DOMS (Jun 25, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> Cool pics, but the fur can be giving off the size illusion.  The heaviest weight ive found on a quick google ride is 177lbs and it states that its a extremely rare case.  Average weight is around 130lbs and that was for a Grey (gray) Wolf.
> 
> For men its around 5'9, 160lbs.  However, this is hard to quantify.



You can't go just be weight.  For example, how much of each is composed of muscle?  What is the average physical condition of each?  A wolf lives by tooth and claw every day, whilst the average man drives to McDonalds.

Take a badger for example.  It weights about 18 pounds and will tear the shit out of you.  I'm not saying it would win in a fight versus a man, but you'll pay a high price for the win.


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## KelJu (Jun 25, 2010)

Pits are by for the coolest fogs on earth. One day when I have a house and a lot of land, I will raise a few pits.


----------



## Tryinhard (Jun 25, 2010)




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## CORUM (Jun 25, 2010)

SYN said:


> That post sounds suspiciously like something a dog fighter would say.....



 there are some shady people out there, and shit happens....... never did i say i was a dog fighter, never did i confirm nor deny that i have seen a dog fight or known dog fighters. get envolved with pits long enough and research you will run into the fighting game it happens ESPECIALLY with this breed. like i said i have been around them for 26 years, you think i have ran into it??? that doesn't mean i condone it or support it, but it is what it is.


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## Little Wing (Jun 25, 2010)

Tryinhard said:


>



ok i think i have it. 1st you're like how'd i get in this situation? you try jacking off the wolf, he fucks you up, you lose the fight, you have a coffee with god and discuss how HE would have fought the wolf.


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## FMJ (Jun 25, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> ok i think i have it. 1st you're like how'd i get in this situation? you try jacking off the wolf, he fucks you up, you lose the fight, you have a coffee with god and discuss how HE would have fought the wolf.


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## SYN (Jun 25, 2010)

CORUM said:


> there are some shady people out there, and shit happens....... never did i say i was a dog fighter, never did i confirm nor deny that i have seen a dog fight or known dog fighters. get envolved with pits long enough and research you will run into the fighting game it happens ESPECIALLY with this breed. like i said i have been around them for 26 years, you think i have ran into it??? that doesn't mean i condone it or support it, but it is what it is.



Your dog doesn't look like he's ever seen a ring, looks like a handsome healthy boy, I was just screwing with you.   

I'm glad that kind of stuff doesn't happen where I live.


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## maniclion (Jun 25, 2010)

CORUM said:


> you go down south in the backwoods, those hill billy MF'ers got some damn dogs!!!!


Down in Texas, by Lake Somerall where I lived there was this PitBullMastiff looking dog and about 4 other mixed breeds running around in the woods....someone shot a hole through the PBMs left shoulder with what looked like a 12gauge slug, it healed up but you could see through it....that dog was massive, he had to have lived at one of the farms out there but those people don't lock up their dogs so you gotta deal with them.  I had pitbull cats who ran around those same woods, they were solid built stocky tomcats, scars on their nose, ears torn from who knows what....


----------



## CORUM (Jun 25, 2010)

SYN said:


> Your dog doesn't look like he's ever seen a ring, looks like a handsome healthy boy, I was just screwing with you.
> 
> I'm glad that kind of stuff doesn't happen where I live.



I PAID A SHIT LOAD OF MONEY FOR THAT DOG..... HELL NO HE HASN'T SEEN THE BOX!!! but there has been a yard accident or two, and he doesn't have a scar on him, if that tells u anything. his stupid ass caused 3K worth of damage to another dog. that hurt the wallet!!! but i mostly keep him away from other dogs to prevent stuff like that.


i know where lake somerall is. ive lived all over texas!!! go down to louisiana and they have some dogs, and arkansas.


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## SYN (Jun 25, 2010)

CORUM said:


> I PAID A SHIT LOAD OF MONEY FOR THAT DOG..... HELL NO HE HASN'T SEEN THE BOX!!! but there has been a yard accident or two, and he doesn't have a scar on him, if that tells u anything. his stupid ass caused 3K worth of damage to another dog. that hurt the wallet!!! but i mostly keep him away from other dogs to prevent stuff like that.
> 
> 
> i know where lake somerall is. ive lived all over texas!!! go down to louisiana and they have some dogs, and arkansas.



We were babysitting our friends husky the other day and he almost got his ass whooped by another dog that was at where we were hanging out.  Shit happens, especially when some people don't tether or fence in dogs that aren't smart enough to stay in the yard.  Around town here there's an older guy who rides his bike around and he has a little chihuahua that runs along beside him without a leash.  He stops when the bike stops and goes when the bike goes, and doesn't really pay attention to much else except what the bike is doing.  He has his own little jacket and a hat that he wears. It's quite a sight.


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## Dark Geared God (Jun 25, 2010)

bio-chem said:


> im not talking about a 62 grn bullet traveling at 4000fps. I'm talking about a 120lb wolf eating my hand off. I've been bitten by a dog. I knew everytime


 
My point was most people don't knwo what they can do unless there facing that problem i wouldn't count the human out just yet but most would lay down and die..


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## Dark Geared God (Jun 25, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> ^ His greatest strength is problem solving. So far, no one has given him credit and 100% of the voters are men.
> 
> 2 pages now and I find it kind of odd that no one is on the man's side, even by accident.
> 
> ...


 Exactumundo..the pack


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## Dark Geared God (Jun 25, 2010)

KelJu said:


> Pits are by for the coolest fogs on earth. One day when I have a house and a lot of land, I will raise a few pits.


 
they are the coolest Fogs(dogs)


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## GFR (Jun 25, 2010)

My brain just exploded.


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## Dark Geared God (Jun 25, 2010)

GeorgeForemanRules said:


> My brain just exploded.


 and my penis


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## DiGiTaL (Jun 25, 2010)

nature, you scary!


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## Hoglander (Jun 25, 2010)

Pits are the status symbol of the insecure. 

I just made that up but if mentally healthy people want to use that quote feel free.   :  )


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## CORUM (Jun 25, 2010)

Hoglander said:


> Pits are the status symbol of the insecure.
> 
> I just made that up but if mentally healthy people want to use that quote feel free.   :  )



actually hoglander (and i say this pretty sadly because i have agreed with you quite a bit before) u sir are a moron!!!! if you actually look into the history of the pit, it dates back to the 1800's when the irish and english immagrents were coming over and bringing these LITTLE fearless, scrappy dogs over with them. which took the early settlers by surprise because they were so small and scrappy. back then dog fighting was a gentlemens sport. the dogs were treated as family. so they would pit the dogs together, which is where pit bull came from. because in the early days they were just bull terriers. 9not like the bull terriers of today.

they quickly became very popular for companions because of the loyalty and temperment. farmers quickly picked up on them to work cattle. they became a VERY popular breed for all purposes, because they were an all around dog that could accomplish ANY task. and they were great family dogs. actually when they were being bred for fighting and working, human aggression WAS NOT part of the breed standard. in the early days ANY pit bull that showed human aggression was culled, because it was unacceptable. 

the reason for this was because any working dog can get injuried and go into shock. a fighting dog that gets tore up pretty bad and loses blood goes into shock. they do not know what they are doing, they do notwant people touching them or handling them. most dogs attack anything that comes near them. now the great thing about the pit bull, was human aggression was NOT part of their nature AT ALL!!! these dogs had a HIGH tolerance of pain, and could keep their composer very well in ANY situation, which is made them great dogs for anything you wanted them to do. very versatile breed that if taken the time and accomplish ANYTHING the owner desires. 

they were also the top pick for family dogs, because of the high tolerance of pain. kids could poke them in the eye, pull their tail and climb all over them and the dog would not bite, they would lay there and love the attention.

another history lesson, the most highly decorated dog for the military was SGT. Stubby, which was part of the pit bull family. during the world wars, pit bulls was actually the symbol for AMERICA... it was the all around AMERICAN dog. they were all over propaganda posters, and posters of hope!!! 

the problem started with money getting envolved, and the dog fighting turned to something different. then you had the drug dealers that wanted a strong dog that looked intimidating, then they went away from the breed standard and started breeding for human aggression. 

it is UNEDUCATED people that go shooting off at the mouth and believing any bullshit the media tells them without their own research, and irresponsible owners, and sorry ass hoodlum wanna be thugs that need a dog to handle their work because they are pussies that is jeopardizing this great breed!!!

so before someone starts shooting off at the mouth about things they have no idea about like an idiot do the research and learn the truth. get educated. and feel free to look up everything i said, i just touched the TIP of the iceburg when it comes to this wonderful breed.


disclaimer: American Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Terriers< and American Pit Bull Terriers all get classified as "pit bulls"


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## CORUM (Jun 25, 2010)

also another problem started when people started mixing in unstable breeds to make the dogs bigger or get the human aggression, so most of the pits you see today are NOT pure bred pit bulls. (even if they have UKC, ADBA, AKC papers) breeders have hung papers to make the dog register as a legit dog when it is actually a mix breed. say pit bull with cane corso, or dogo argentina, mastiff, now english bulldog has become popular since people want the SHORTY stalky BULLIES (different breed entirely) 

feel free to ask questions about pits, i will educate the uneducated!!


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## SYN (Jun 26, 2010)

Hoglander said:


> Pits are the status symbol of the insecure.
> 
> I just made that up but if mentally healthy people want to use that quote feel free.   :  )



No offense but that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard someone say about a pit.  You don't have to be an insecure gangster loser to think pits are awesome, it it's sad that most of the attention pits get is from ignorant little ghetto fags go "oh, put bulls are vicious, I'm gonna get one and feed it Brillo pads, and teach it to bite my little sister" 
But the reason some people love them (and the reason I love them) is because they are really just sweet, innocent, misunderstood dogs, who are no less obedient or loyal than any other breed, and it's a shame that places like Issaquah Highland in Washington are making pit-bulls pay for the crimes of humanity.


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## KelJu (Jun 26, 2010)

Hoglander said:


> Pits are the status symbol of the insecure.
> 
> I just made that up but if mentally healthy people want to use that quote feel free.   :  )



So, do you really believe that or were you just kidding? 

I love pits because they are strong, smart, and loyal. I also have a lot of sympathy for the them, because they are the most abused and misunderstood breed of dog ever.


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## DOMS (Jun 26, 2010)

KelJu said:


> So, do you really believe that or were you just kidding?
> 
> I love pits because they are strong, smart, and loyal. I also have a lot of sympathy for the them, because they are the most abused and misunderstood breed of dog ever.



So long as it's a real dog***, it's that true of ever non-inbred breed?

*

** As someone on IM defined it, a real dog can catch a Frisbee.


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## KelJu (Jun 26, 2010)

DOMS said:


> So long as it's a real dog***, it's that true of ever non-inbred breed?
> 
> *
> 
> ** As someone on IM defined it, a real dog can catch a Frisbee.








YouTube Video











By the way, the pit in this video was rescued right before they were going to euthanize the it. Nobody wanted a viscous man killing pitbull. Lucky for the dog, Andrew Yori knows better, and sees through the bullshit.


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## KelJu (Jun 26, 2010)

YouTube Video











Here is one of Michael Vick's rescued pits. I am very happy this dog was saved in time. Vick would have drowned this dog for refusing to fight.


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## DOMS (Jun 26, 2010)

(in response to the Frisbee video)

That dog was having a blast.

The idea that there are bad breeds of dogs is moronic (with the exception of inbred breeds)  If it's a domesticated breed of dog, it's no more bad than its owner teaches it to be.


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## Captn'stabbin (Jun 26, 2010)

i had no clue that wolves are that big, never scene them next to something to give it scale. i respect them a bit more.


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## Little Wing (Jun 26, 2010)

an alpha male from yellowstone





http://www.bethpratt.com/life-in-yellowstone/2009/4/24/women-who-run-with-wolves.html
Over the winter, Doug Smith, the Wolf Project leader, and his crew  collared a number of wolves. My collar was placed on wolf 495M, a  six-year old black alpha male of Mollie’s Pack and also at 143 pounds,  the largest wolf _ever_ recorded in Yellowstone National  Park. We must share a love of good food!



this wolf has been sedated in order to be collared. 143lbs is a LOT of wolf.


----------



## AKIRA (Jun 26, 2010)

The people in the pics dont give it an accurate scale.  Best to take a pic with a height chart.



DOMS said:


> You can't go just be weight.  For example, how much of each is composed of muscle?  What is the average physical condition of each?  A wolf lives by tooth and claw every day, whilst the average man drives to McDonalds.
> 
> Take a badger for example.  It weights about 18 pounds and will tear the shit out of you.  I'm not saying it would win in a fight versus a man, but you'll pay a high price for the win.



Youre right, its difficult to quantify and I couldve included the length and height, but were all familiar with the general structure.  Those pics are cool pics, but if they really are that pic then they dont qualify in this discussion cuz the title states "Average" and if those wolves are considered average size, I dont know why anyone would pose with them unless they were hunting them specifically and needed proof that they made the catch.  Otherwise, its the same as taking a pic of catching a big fish.  You dont show off an average size.

I am glad the discussion has gotten this far and I always believed that the modern bulletin board services would be the only way to extend the discussion.  I am dead positive people came in here and voted "wolf" and never looked back.  However, for a discussion sakes, I like to see reasons behind votes.

Now bare in mind, I never included statistics and I personally will not give the wold 9 times out of 10 over the man.  Too many things going on.  That is why I included "they both die" cuz I can see a man getting bit fatally, but still rendering a kill out of desperate survival.  The wolf dies, then the man dies later.  Id say this is more probable than anything.

Wolves do hunt everyday whereas the man does not.  However, wolves do not normally hunt man.  Theyve not adapted to such a species so a wolf would look at a man like it was an upright deer.

What irks me about this thread is the quickness of assumptions.  Assumption that man would panic, assumption a wolf would know exactly how to kill without mistake.  Assumptions can be justified but they are not a means to an end.  I made an analogy earlier that NO ONE TOUCHED.  I said to put yourself in this scenario and make something at stake like your child.  Would you really submit so easily for the sake of discussion if your kid was involved?  Perhaps protecting something else other than yourself changes things.  Buuuuut if it did, WHY?


----------



## AKIRA (Jun 26, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> an alpha male from yellowstone
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thats not an average wolf size then.


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## Little Wing (Jun 26, 2010)

the only way i think you're going to save you kid is tell them to run while you keep the wolf busy killing you. the guy that subdued the wolf was a huge fucking guy in great shape, really strong, and if his friends didn't come along he would be dead. it was all he could do to hang onto the wolf and he was tiring. the wolf would have killed him if no one intervened. 

maine is known for it's hunting and fishing and i can tell you people are proud of what they kill, the _feat_ of the hunt, it doesn't need to be a prize buck or anything bigger than normal for the "oh look i killed it" pictures. that's just saying it was the biggest wolf in yellowstone. wolves have been weighed in at 170 and 190 pounds. 170 being in the US. average is still going to be terrifying.


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## ezra heatly (Jun 26, 2010)

I am starting to hear running is not that great for you?   Especially the knees. But also the spine?


----------



## Little Wing (Jun 26, 2010)

ezra heatly said:


> I am starting to hear running is not that great for you?   Especially the knees. But also the spine?



yea, theres a hazard of wolf bite.  left field much?


----------



## DOMS (Jun 26, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> What irks me about this thread is the quickness of assumptions.  Assumption that man would panic, assumption a wolf would know exactly how to kill without mistake.  Assumptions can be justified but they are not a means to an end.  I made an analogy earlier that NO ONE TOUCHED.  I said to put yourself in this scenario and make something at stake like your child.  Would you really submit so easily for the sake of discussion if your kid was involved?  Perhaps protecting something else other than yourself changes things.  Buuuuut if it did, WHY?



Wolves are a strong quadruped (more stable base and faster) whilst humans are a middling strength biped.  Wolves have claws, teeth, and a strong bite.  Humans have fingers, a small bite, and weak jaws.

Also consider that wolves are smart hunters.  They will wound prey and then sit back for a bit whilst the prey's blood flows and energy ebbs.

Sure, statistically, a human is going to win; but you can't make much ado about very low statistical probabilities.

However, you put a decent weapon in the human's hands and the tables turn; but that wasn't included in your question.

In a real world example, if I had any time to prepare, I'd wrap my coat around my left arm as bait, and arm myself with a sharp sturdy stick or club.  Again, that wasn't part of your scenario.


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## Little Wing (Jun 26, 2010)

Use areas below high tide mark, away from camp, in an area of high tidal  exchange for toilets - do not use the upland areas, wolves will feed on  human excrement. 

so much for the trying to make yourself taste disgusting ploy....


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## Little Wing (Jun 26, 2010)

DOMS said:


> They will wound prey and then sit back for a bit whilst the prey's blood flows and energy ebbs.



good point. and scary.


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## Little Wing (Jun 26, 2010)

if i ever go deep in the north woods again i'm going to arm myself like frikkin Rambo.


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## CORUM (Jun 26, 2010)

DOMS.... in reguards to your inbred comment. you would be surprised how many dogs are inbred. once you get into breeding for whatever reason. like showing, hunting, sport or whatever it may be. you will see that most great bloodlines have been inbred or tight line bred. you breed for certain traits..... once you have a line really tight and all the traits are there that you want. inbreed lock that trait in, and then go out to other bloodlines, or a little less tight of a line breed. there was a a guy that had one of the most successful bloodlines of german shepards. his method was the grand sire of a female becomes the sire of her litter. so in breeding is not the culprit unless it is not done properly or done looking for the wrong traits.


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## CORUM (Jun 26, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> Thats not an average wolf size then.



a friend of mine, just got rid of his timberwolf dog and it was 120 at 11 months. so i am sure it would have came close or passed that 140 mark.


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## AKIRA (Jun 26, 2010)

CORUM said:


> a friend of mine, just got rid of his timberwolf dog and it was 120 at 11 months. so i am sure it would have came close or passed that 140 mark.



I took a .25lb shit today and I know theres more.  Expect for me to break records.  Oh wait, thats not the average shit size.


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## maniclion (Jun 26, 2010)

In Texas I did a lot of hiking through the woods near the lake, I would always run into these 2 coyotes, they were skinny but if they fattened up they probably would have been about 70lbs, I'd say they were 55 at most.  Still they looked wild and intimidating, they would always stop and look at me, and then trot off on their way to where ever.  They didn't look like the coyotes I would see strung up on fence posts outside of ranches, they were bigger and had reddish backs....it's very possible they were remnants of Red Wolf inter-breeding with coyotes, the red wolves were known to roam that area before man killed them all in the wild....

There  was also a fox I would see crossing this alfalfa field, at least that's what my Dad called it, it was always the greenest pasture.....that fox was beautiful, rust red and white and the little black socked legs.....

But the most impressive wild predator I saw out there was a huge bobcat, I'd say almost 4 ft long and 25-30 pounds.....it was so graceful, stalking silently through the underbrush...I was up on the top edge of gully leading across a hill he was passing through the lowest part toward the lake following the creek....my father saw him too while out hunting, except he was leaning against a tree and it passed behind him about 40 yards away, he had just barely heard some leaves rustle....he slowly leaned around the tree and watched it walk off into the denser growth.....

Out of those 3 I was scared of the bobcat the most....


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## SYN (Jun 26, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> I took a .25lb shit today and I know theres more.  Expect for me to break records.  Oh wait, thats not the average shit size.



A 1/4 pound poop?  Please, I squeeze out 5pounders for my warm up  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








How Big is an Average Poo?


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## AKIRA (Jun 26, 2010)

Howard Stern already did a special on shit's weight with High Pitch Eric.

Look, people, *Fedor *lost tonight.  If that can happened, a man can cook up a wolf tonight on a fucking patio chair.

Nothing is ever for sure.


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## SYN (Jun 26, 2010)

Maybe if the man has some of this stuff in his pockets...or around his neck 






YouTube Video


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## Hoglander (Jun 26, 2010)

KelJu said:


> So, do you really believe that or were you just kidding?
> 
> I love pits because they are strong, smart, and loyal. I also have a lot of sympathy for the them, because they are the most abused and misunderstood breed of dog ever.



It's an 80 20 split in my meaning with caring(hopefully diligent) owners such as yourself in the minority.


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## maxpro2 (Jun 27, 2010)

KelJu said:


> The average bite pressure for a wolf is 600 psi. A German Shepard is the most popular and commonly used police assist attack dog. It's bite pressure is only 200 psi. almost 99% of the time,* the German Shepard whoops ass over various criminal assailants who often times have weapons. *



Yes but German Shepards seem to mostly be used to stop a fleeing criminal, when the criminal is running away and does not really defend against the animal.

I have never seen a clip or heard of a situation where the criminal braced himself for a one-on-one fight with a police dog.

The closest I could find of such situation is: 





YouTube Video










And even here the criminal seems distracted by the tear gas and the approaching police officers.


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## Little Wing (Jun 27, 2010)

lol at the dog not letting go. it looks like he has him right up to the end of the vid.


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## AKIRA (Jun 27, 2010)

He has him?  Who has him?  I found that vid earlier and wanted to submit it, but its a different animal for 1 thing and it has had training for another..

What I saw in THAT vid is the dog being man handled.  Brought me back to the Fear Factor vids.  Every person (mostly men) that had some weight to them was able to achieve whatever goal Joe Rogan placed in front of them regardless of this big bad K9 unit.  It seems the main duty of the dog is delay and/or restraint.


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## DOMS (Jun 27, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> He has him?  Who has him?  I found that vid earlier and wanted to submit it, but its a different animal for 1 thing and it has had training for another..
> 
> What I saw in THAT vid is the dog being man handled.  Brought me back to the Fear Factor vids.  Every person (mostly men) that had some weight to them was able to achieve whatever goal Joe Rogan placed in front of them regardless of this big bad K9 unit.  It seems the main duty of the dog is delay and/or restraint.



I watched an episode of COPS where the police sent a dog after a criminal.  They came around the corner of a house to find the guy holding the German Sheppard up by the neck.  He wasn't even that big.


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## Little Wing (Jun 27, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> He has him?  Who has him?  I found that vid earlier and wanted to submit it, but its a different animal for 1 thing and it has had training for another..
> 
> What I saw in THAT vid is the dog being man handled.  Brought me back to the Fear Factor vids.  Every person (mostly men) that had some weight to them was able to achieve whatever goal Joe Rogan placed in front of them regardless of this big bad K9 unit.  It seems the main duty of the dog is delay and/or restraint.




i don't think a police dog vid has *anything* to do with the wolf debate. i just thought it was funny the dog didn't let go. 


Learn How Police Dogs Are Trained
Dogs that are trained for police work are trained to never bite only to  grab onto their target and not release whatever it is that they are  holding until their handler tells them the command for release. 


apples and oranges. 
​


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## SYN (Jun 27, 2010)

Man dies 3 weeks after deer gores him | The San Diego Union-Tribune

Deer kills man who kept it penned up - U.S. news - Life - msnbc.com

Then there's that other Santa guy who got impaled by his reindeer, and here in Maine, some other guy was almost mauled to death by a deer, and he even had a pocket knife on him to defend himself.   If the average man has all he can do to fend of a fucking deer, I think a wolf is definitely a little too much for him to take on.


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## maniclion (Jun 27, 2010)

DOMS said:


> I watched an episode of COPS where the police sent a dog after a criminal.  They came around the corner of a house to find the guy holding the German Sheppard up by the neck.  He wasn't even that big.


He only had to hold it up for maybe 30 seconds, a man's stamina can't match a dogs...why do you think we use them to drag our asses through the snow while we ride on the back of sleds.....


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## AKIRA (Jun 27, 2010)

maniclion said:


> He only had to hold it up for maybe 30 seconds, a man's stamina can't match a dogs...why do you think we use them to drag our asses through the snow while we ride on the back of sleds.....



Unless its White Fang or that one dog in that one movie....bah, THEY USE PACKS!


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## AKIRA (Jun 27, 2010)

SYN said:


> Man dies 3 weeks after deer gores him | The San Diego Union-Tribune
> 
> Deer kills man who kept it penned up - U.S. news - Life - msnbc.com
> 
> Then there's that other Santa guy who got impaled by his reindeer, and here in Maine, some other guy was almost mauled to death by a deer, and he even had a pocket knife on him to defend himself.   If the average man has all he can do to fend of a fucking deer, I think a wolf is definitely a little too much for him to take on.



A buck?  Like, a male deer with antlers?  What relevance does this have?


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## AKIRA (Jun 27, 2010)

DOMS said:


> I watched an episode of COPS where the police sent a dog after a criminal.  They came around the corner of a house to find the guy holding the German Sheppard up by the neck.  He wasn't even that big.



See, and that dog was trained.  

I wonder if those voted for either side are voting based off of a 10 out of 10 times chance.  Just wondering, it has no part of the vote.


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## bio-chem (Jun 27, 2010)

no I don't believe the wolf would when every single time. i just consider the wolf to be heavily favored in this scenario and would put my money there


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## Little Wing (Jun 27, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> See, and that dog was trained.
> 
> I wonder if those voted for either side are voting based off of a 10 out of 10 times chance.  Just wondering, it has no part of the vote.



i think undoubtedly sometimes the man would win. men sometimes have really strong legs and a good kick to the head or face of the wolf could maybe break it's jaw or an elbow smash could. maybe he could grab a leg and break it slowing the wolf enough to gain an advantage. or get his head and break his neck. think about it, back in the days before we even had fire we had to fight animals to live even saber tooth motherfuckers and we're still here. and especially in a scenario where something like our child were at stake we have heart. the man is going to lose i'd say most out of 100 matches but not every one. 5 to 10 men would be standing.

and they would no longer be _average_ men.


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## Hoglander (Jun 27, 2010)

Or our pack coordination was superior. AND challenging a pack/clan is what we evolved to express....... "WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"   That's us in a group/gang or whatever you want to call what we are when we choose to dominate.


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## Little Wing (Jun 27, 2010)

and we quickly learned how to fashion weapons because without them we were "dinner for wolf"


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## Hoglander (Jun 27, 2010)

That and we learned to watch and wait. When the time was right we likely went to the dens to kill and eat the babies. It's what we do. We also killed their(our prey). Then it was time to dawn their skins and use them to sneak up on them to kill them, the first spies if you will.


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## Little Wing (Jun 27, 2010)

to kill the wolf you must _become_ the wolf grasshopper


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## ROID (Jun 28, 2010)

I would do that crocodile Dundee thing and make the wolf lay down.

If that didn't work I would just straight fuck a wolf up. I'm on steroids.


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## AKIRA (Jun 28, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> i think undoubtedly sometimes the man would win. men sometimes have really strong legs and a good kick to the head or face of the wolf could maybe break it's jaw or an elbow smash could. maybe he could grab a leg and break it slowing the wolf enough to gain an advantage. or get his head and break his neck. think about it, back in the days before we even had fire we had to fight animals to live even saber tooth motherfuckers and we're still here. and especially in a scenario where something like our child were at stake we have heart. the man is going to lose i'd say most out of 100 matches but not every one. 5 to 10 men would be standing.
> 
> and they would no longer be _average_ men.



Ok lets not turn this into Highlander, but it took 5 pages to come to that.  If there was a chance for a man to win, you listed 3 ways.

In conclusion, the vote is too one sided.  The best answer really wouldve been "It depends" but I didnt include it.  The trick was to see who would jump the gun and vote for whomever.

We all know who could win, it was the HOW that I wanted to hear.  Thats why I included scenarios that something was at stake.  All of a sudden, a man went from *no way* he could win to, well he _could _win sometimes.


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## Little Wing (Jun 28, 2010)

*ok before anyone panics upon seeing a wolf...
*



*Fatal wolf attack unnerves Alaska village*

*                         Teacher's mauling was only second such fatal  attack in North America*

Fatal wolf attack unnerves Alaska village - U.S. news - Life - msnbc.com


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## Little Wing (Jun 28, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> Ok lets not turn this into Highlander, but it took 5 pages to come to that.  If there was a chance for a man to win, you listed 3 ways.
> 
> In conclusion, the vote is too one sided.  The best answer really wouldve been "It depends" but I didnt include it.  The trick was to see who would jump the gun and vote for whomever.
> 
> We all know who could win, it was the HOW that I wanted to hear.  Thats why I included scenarios that something was at stake.  All of a sudden, a man went from *no way* he could win to, well he _could _win sometimes.



this question drives you a little bonkers doesn't it?  

the things is wolves don't try and eat us they avoid us for the most part which is lucky for us. i told Tess today if a wolf and man are suddenly squared off

the wolf is probably going to be standing there thinking "FINALLY!!!!!! My chance to prove to those cocksuckers in my pack a wolf _could_ win!!!"


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## Little Wing (Jun 28, 2010)

*Bruce Willis' Instructions On Killing A Wolf  With Your Bare Hands*

  February 8th, 2010 



Bruce  Willis is offering up tips on how to kill a wolf with your  bare hands in a new survival article. The action man tells the  new issue of "Men's Journal" magazine how to impress women,  what not to drink on a heavy  night out and the vital information every father should pass onto his  children - but it's his precise wolf-killing skills that will impress  most.

He suggests the first thing to do when attacked in the wild is to "give  the wolf your arm."

He explains, "You've got to lean into it, stick your arm all the way  down his throat. He can't swallow it because he's gagging on your arm.  You reach in, you grab a handful of something - guts, the back of its  throat, whatever you can hold - and pull it out. And try to avoid those  claws while you're doing it."

Willis insists he's a wealth of manly information like that.

He adds, "If I ever get out of this acting racket, I'm going to be (TV  self-help guru) Dr. Phil's competition. Except I would be the alpha-dog  side and tell you how to kill a wolf with your bare hands."


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## Little Wing (Jun 28, 2010)

Could you kill a wolf with your bare hands? - Bodybuilding.com Forums


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## Little Wing (Jun 28, 2010)

Bare Hand Wolf Chokers Association on MySpace Comedy - Comic Clips, Funny Videos & Jokes


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## Little Wing (Jun 28, 2010)

"1917: Fred Brown of Melrose kills a wolf with his bare hands. While  walking to Ward Springs he finds a wolf hunting frogs, its back to him.  Brown, momentarily forgetting that he has a hunting knife in his pocket,  grabs the wolf by its tail and wrestles with it until he breaks open  its head. When five or six other wolves approach him, Brown draws his  knife and prepares to fight, but the wolves retreat."
 I don’t know about you, but I’m with the wolf on this one. Yes, yes,  we regard them now as Noble Dogs of the Wild, and people saw them as  dangerous critters in the olden times of . . . of 1917, but c’mon. The  wolf was hunting frogs. It’s not like he was trotting away from the  orphanage with a foundling in his jaws.


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## SYN (Jun 28, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> Unless its White Fang or that one dog in that one movie....bah, THEY USE PACKS!




My friend has a pretty small husky (he was the runt) and in the winter time he takes him out on 4-wheeler trails and has Dozer pull him on a snowboard.  One dog is perfectly capable of towing a human, but sled dogs usually haul around a person and a sled loaded right full of gear, hence the need for a pack.


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## juggernaut (Jun 28, 2010)

Grab his jaws and rip the fuckers apart. End of story. Or, if he has your arm in his mouth, pull something out as hard as you can.


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## AKIRA (Jun 28, 2010)

Little Wing said:


> Could you kill a wolf with your bare hands? - Bodybuilding.com Forums



I assure you, that is NOT me.  I had no idea this topic was a biggie.  Neither one of my roomates is into working out to the point of joining a bodybuilding forum site either..  Now that is fucking odd.

I am jealous by the structure of that guy's thread title.  It puts the listener in a more personal position.  However, my room mates were average size, so I wanted to use an average person's size anyway.

In any case, it seems as if bodybuidling.com members put more thought into their answers and didnt just say they were pussies, unlike some individuals in here.....

Bruce Willis has the right idea, but hes suggesting you jam your arm down the throat.  Now you got to aim as well, otherwise the wolf would grab the arm perpendicularly.  I can see that being fine, but I picture the wolf letting go and trying again.


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## juggernaut (Jun 28, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> Bruce Willis has the right idea, but hes suggesting you jam your arm down the throat.  Now you got to aim as well, otherwise the wolf would grab the arm perpendicularly.  I can see that being fine, but I picture the wolf letting go and trying again.



pull hard enough and he'll whimper away. The way I see it, I may go down, but I'm going down with a fight.


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## Little Wing (Jun 28, 2010)

this debate has probably been going on before the white man even came to this continent. it's an interesting topic. i've heard the argument before but i can't recall where, i thought it was here. my father worked in remote logging camps and sometimes we'd stay with him there for weeks at a time. he always said "most animals will run from you, a few will look and then run and none of them carry guns". we roamed all through the woods with no fear, just fishing poles and bait.


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## maniclion (Jun 28, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> Unless its White Fang or that one dog in that one movie....bah, THEY USE PACKS!


Those dogs will pull the sled until they die if the owner doesn't make them stop and rest....those sleds are weighted down with supplies and food for the dogs....

Plus they say a wolf can go 12 days without food before he starts to get weak.....

I am sure given the right circumstances a man could punch a wolf just right and knock it out, or their is a spot right above all my dogs sternums that if I push just a little makes them choke (raise your head to look at the ceiling and you will see where I mean, dogs not standing up right expose that spot) if you could finger jab that they would probably not be able to breath like chopping a man in the adams apple...But I give the man very slim odds without the tools he has evolved to be able to use, any man in the woods with no way to protect himself has lived in the city too long and lost his instincts for survival in the wild and doesn't deserve to visit such a beautiful place, he deserves to die for not coming prepared.  Hell even troglodytes knew to bring a club or a spear while trekking through the wilderness.  I never took a walk in the relatively tame woods by my house without a gun or at least my hefty walking stick.  Hawaii is the only place I've ever gone hiking with just a pocket knife....


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## My weener Burns (Jun 28, 2010)

A dog shagged me once. His knot nearly prolapsed me as he dismounted.


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## juggernaut (Jun 28, 2010)

My weener Burns said:


> A dog shagged me once. His knot nearly prolapsed me as he dismounted.



I dont know whats gayer, your response or your avatar...shut the fuck up.


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## Outdoorsman1111 (Apr 28, 2015)

Everyone that thinks the wolf would win hasn't done the research. Obviously a human would win.  When the wolf bites your arm you put your free arm on the back of the wolfs neck then fall on top of the wolf this should snap it's neck, (Duh). The only reason why you should be careful of wolves is when there's one wolf around there's bound to be the rest of the pack nearby.


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## SheriV (Apr 28, 2015)

Outdoorsman1111 said:


> Everyone that thinks the wolf would win hasn't done the research. Obviously a human would win.  When the wolf bites your arm you put your free arm on the back of the wolfs neck then fall on top of the wolf this should snap it's neck, (Duh). The only reason why you should be careful of wolves is when there's one wolf around there's bound to be the rest of the pack nearby.




strong thread bump


I miss these sorts of senseless discussions


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## maniclion (Apr 28, 2015)

http://youtu.be/qu5JskY94OM

Bull mastiffs are big and this is one playing with a 140lb timber wolf.  I wouldn't want to face off with either under bad circumstances and I have lots of experience with dogs.


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## LAM (Apr 29, 2015)

Outdoorsman1111 said:


> Everyone that thinks the wolf would win hasn't done the research. Obviously a human would win.  When the wolf bites your arm you put your free arm on the back of the wolfs neck then fall on top of the wolf this should snap it's neck, (Duh). The only reason why you should be careful of wolves is when there's one wolf around there's bound to be the rest of the pack nearby.



That is easier said then done when the average human is a total pussy.


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## the_predator (Apr 29, 2015)

Yes! Dead thread revised


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## Outdoorsman1111 (May 1, 2015)

Reply to LAM. Yeah right maybe if you are a city wimp... Man are you kill a wolf with his bare hands check it out.    

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile/news/article/kazakh-man-kills-wolf-with-bare-hands/485579.html


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## Outdoorsman1111 (May 1, 2015)

Reply to LAM


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## Outdoorsman1111 (May 1, 2015)

Yeah if you were city Wempe sorry evidence of a guy killing a wolf with his bare hands. Check it out.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile/news/article/kazakh-man-kills-wolf-with-bare-hands/485579.html


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## Outdoorsman1111 (May 1, 2015)

Yeah if your city wimp.  A normal guy can handle a wolf. The wolf had the surprise advantage but the human won anyway.
Check it out

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile/news/article/kazakh-man-kills-wolf-with-bare-hands/485579.html


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## Outdoorsman1111 (May 1, 2015)

Reply to LAM... Yeah if you're a city wimp. Check out what a country guy Moscow did.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile/news/article/kazakh-man-kills-wolf-with-bare-hands/485579.html


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## Outdoorsman1111 (May 1, 2015)

*Reply to LAM e*

Yeah if you're a city wimp. Check out what a country guy Moscow did.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile/news/article/kazakh-man-kills-wolf-with-bare-hands/485579.html


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## Zaphod (May 2, 2015)

Outdoorsman1111 said:


> Everyone that thinks the wolf would win hasn't done the research. Obviously a human would win.  When the wolf bites your arm you put your free arm on the back of the wolfs neck then fall on top of the wolf this should snap it's neck, (Duh). The only reason why you should be careful of wolves is when there's one wolf around there's bound to be the rest of the pack nearby.




Okay, douchie


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## Bigjay73 (May 3, 2015)

Whatever happened to little wing?  Miss her interesting perspective.


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