# Do you know what you are injecting when using an under ground lab? (Graphic Video)



## heavyiron (May 1, 2011)

YouTube Video









 
Underground labs are commonly used by guys/gals who administer steroids. UGL’s are usually inexpensive and there are plenty to choose from. However there are many inherent risks when using UGL’s. These labs do not have to follow any Good Manufacturing Practices and many times are totally unregulated. Pain, swelling and redness at an injection site may be signs of improperly assembled medicines. If sterile practices are not followed you may also end up with an infection leading to an abscess. Additionally you may be injecting the wrong dose or a completely different medicine altogether. When you examine a product it should not contain any sediment or turbidity. Steroids made in an UGL may also contain harmful contaminants like heavy metals such as lead, tin, mercury, and/or arsenic. 

Usually heavy metals are common in chemical-manufacturing operations, but are normally removed through very careful product assembly and purification steps. They are sometimes found in UGL products because the raw materials used to make some of these steroids was simply made* “cheaply”,* without the expense needed to hit true drug-grade purity. 

In many Countries its legal to manufacture steroids therefore there should be no reason that a company would conceal how the medicines are made. In the United States we have many manufacturers who have production videos and pictures showing how medicines are assembled in sterile conditions. Watson and Eli Lilly freely let us view their manufacturing processes. We get to see with our own eyes the sterile conditions. 







Why do so many UGL’s conceal _how _their products are made? I don’t need an address or any private sensitive information about these labs but why not snap a picture of the equipment and let us see how the products we inject are being assembled? The reason is obvious. Many UGL’s are in such poor condition that they don’t want us to see them. They sometimes throw together the medicines in dark garages, small dirty apartments or other non-sterile clandestine locations. 





Some UGL’s go to great lengths to make their packaging look professional so just looking at the product is not enough to determine purity however there are some tell tail signs to look out for. 

The first thing I look for is the crimp ring on the stopper. If it was done in a factory it usually will be very uniform however if it has been crimped by hand you know it was likely done outside a factory where zero sterile practices are regulated. For all you know, the person making your batch may have just used the bathroom and not washed their hands or even if they have followed sterile practices they likely have no way of testing the purity of the raw materials. It’s unlikely they have a mass spectrometer lying around to determine powder purity. Therefore, even the best home labs may be making contaminated products. 

The next thing I look for is turbidity in the solution. If there is any detectable sediment or cloudiness the product was likely not filtered properly or it was improperly suspended. Look for moisture and crystals in the solution as well. There should be none in oil based products.

Finally, I inspect the packaging. If labels are put on crooked or words are misspelled this shows a level of carelessness. How can you trust a lab that does not know how to spell or apply a label correctly? Bad packaging practices many times equals bad product.

*Good manufacturing practice*
_From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia_

"Good manufacturing practice" or "GMP" is part of a quality system covering the manufacture and testing of pharmaceutical dosage forms or drugs and active pharmaceutical ingredients, diagnostics, foods, pharmaceutical products, and medical devices. GMPs are guidelines that outline the aspects of production and testing that can impact the quality of a product. Many countries have legislated that pharmaceutical and medical device companies must follow GMP procedures, and have created their own GMP guidelines that correspond with their legislation, basic concepts of all these guidelines remains more or less similar that is ultimate goal to produce a good quality medicine or medical devices or active pharmaceutical products.




Although there are a number of them, all guidelines follow a few basic principles.

Manufacturing processes are clearly defined and controlled. All critical processes are validated to ensure consistency and compliance with specifications. 
Manufacturing processes are controlled, and any changes to the process are evaluated. Changes that have an impact on the quality of the drug are validated as necessary. 
Instructions and procedures are written in clear and unambiguous language. (Good Documentation Practices) 
Operators are trained to carry out and document procedures. 
Records are made, manually or by instruments, during manufacture that demonstrate that all the steps required by the defined procedures and instructions were in fact taken and that the quantity and quality of the drug was as expected. Deviations are investigated and documented. 
Records of manufacture (including distribution) that enable the complete history of a batch to be traced are retained in a comprehensible and accessible form. 
The distribution of the drugs minimizes any risk to their quality. 
A system is available for recalling any batch of drug from sale or supply. 
Complaints about marketed drugs are examined, the causes of quality defects are investigated, and appropriate measures are taken with respect to the defective drugs and to prevent recurrence. 
GMP guidelines are not prescriptive instructions on how to manufacture products. They are a series of general principles that must be observed during manufacturing. When a company is setting up its quality program and manufacturing process, there may be many ways it can fulfill GMP requirements. It is the company's responsibility to determine the most effective and efficient quality process.
For more info click here; 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_manufacturing_practice

The bottom line is we all need to look out for our own health. Injecting random products from unknown labs is dangerous and has many inherent risks. If a products price is too good to be true, pause before you buy. You usually get what you pay for. Overhead in a regulated facility costs money. Overhead in a Chinese hut with a dirt floor costs next to nothing…

_~heavyiron_


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## GH Consigliere (May 1, 2011)

Good stuff


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## Himik (May 1, 2011)

That is definitely a good read for everyone. It is unfortunate that one of the best compounds - tren is only made by UGLs.


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## GH Consigliere (May 1, 2011)

Is it really?


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## TGB1987 (May 1, 2011)

Best post I have seen in a long time very informative and true.  It is hard to believe some of the practices some of the UGLs use and sell to bodybuilders and athletes like ourselves.  Then we are supposed to inject this stuff into our bodies by passing nearly all of the body's defenses.  These guys should have respect for a human life enough to not do some of the things they do when manufactoring but guess what they don't.  I will always go for Gear that is made up to GMP standards before UGL even though a UGL may sell the product for a 1/4 of the cost that a GMP standard gear runs.  It is worth the peace of mind and safety.  At least you know what you are getting.  Many guys here don't understand this concept and probably never will.  Hopefully this article will open some eyes up.  Great read Heavy!


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## TGB1987 (May 1, 2011)

Some companies that are licensed to sell other Anabolics in other parts of the world will sometimes sell things such as Tren and EQ and so on, on the side.  These are made up to the same standards of other GMP certifed products.


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## ROID (May 1, 2011)

Chino0823 said:


> Is it really?



IMO, short of one supplier, I would make tren from pellets. 

Pellets have always worked very well for me.


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## Himik (May 1, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> Some companies that are licensed to sell other Anabolics in other parts of the world will sometimes sell things such as Tren and EQ and so on, on the side.  These are made up to the same standards of other GMP certifed products.



Unfortunately on the side "thing" is still not HG


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## TGB1987 (May 1, 2011)

Here is a great video of how Labs check the quality of a product   "http://www.youtube.com/v/c6HyMy_zTYQ&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param


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## TGB1987 (May 1, 2011)

I don't believe that there is technically any Human Grade Tren but there is Tren out there that is at the very top end of quality when it comes manufactoring standards.


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## sjk (May 1, 2011)

Some of these UGL's are no better than the guy cookin' up meth in his garage. This is why we gotta protect our sources and look out for each other.


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## GH Consigliere (May 1, 2011)

ROID said:


> IMO, short of one supplier, I would make tren from pellets.
> 
> Pellets have always worked very well for me.



Lol


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## TJTJ (May 1, 2011)

nice, now i dont trust anyone.


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## Little Wing (May 1, 2011)

wow. if you're going to work so hard to make your body beautiful how sad is it to end up with these traumatic scarring infections. i feel bad for the people in this vid. so not worth saving a few bucks. damn.


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## ZECH (May 1, 2011)

Why anyone would risk using a UG lab is beyond me.


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## cutright (May 1, 2011)

Damn that really drives it home lol


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## heavyiron (May 1, 2011)

Himik said:


> That is definitely a good read for everyone. It is unfortunate that one of the best compounds - tren is only made by UGLs.


 Any UGL can make Trenbolone to GMP standards as long as they have the facility, desire and money to do so. That's the bummer of the whole thing. Some labs go to great lengths and use Good Manufacturing Practices and other labs don't.


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## Life (May 1, 2011)

I wonder how many of those pictures were from sterile injection problems as opposed to bad gear.


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## OfficerFarva (May 1, 2011)

Having access to a chemistry and biology lab and friends with their masters in those fields comes in handy lol.  They have all the tools to check everything over.


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## Imosted (May 1, 2011)

Life said:


> I wonder how many of those pictures were from sterile injection problems as opposed to bad gear.



^^^ this


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## Supermans Daddy (May 1, 2011)

Good read. However respectfully I submit to you all that there's UGL's that will give any GMP lab a run for their money in quality and production standards. Not all UGL's are in bathrooms and basements. Somes are out here run'n GZPK 100's,M52's as stardard equipment,Hoods,UV sterilie sytems ,Ion units,etc,. Theres some really good ones out there. Problem is you only hear bout the bad ones .The ones that try to filter 500ml thru 1 45 filter with a fuck'n chaulk gun to "save money".lol The good one's are REALLY UNDERGROUND.Most of those have ZERO desire to become a " household name" type of thin . Just say'n

Peace and Love


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## World-Pharma.org (May 1, 2011)

Great Article...

From last 3 pics you can see where also price different come...

best-regards

WP


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## Marat (May 1, 2011)

Supermans Daddy said:


> Good read. However respectfully I submit to you all that there's UGL's that will give any GMP lab a run for their money in quality and production standards. Not all UGL's are in bathrooms and basements. Somes are out here run'n GZPK 100's,M52's as stardard equipment,Hoods,UV sterilie sytems ,Ion units,etc,. Theres some really good ones out there. Problem is you only hear bout the bad ones .The ones that try to filter 500ml thru 1 45 filter with a fuck'n chaulk gun to "save money".lol The good one's are REALLY UNDERGROUND.Most of those have ZERO desire to become a " household name" type of thin . Just say'n
> 
> Peace and Love



Nice to see this guy back for a minute


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## SFW (May 1, 2011)

So how many of you have used ugls? ( all of you )

How many of you have had serious infections or abscesses as a result of using ugls? ( im sure none of you )

Was it possible said abscess in video was caused from unsanitary conditions prior to injection, such as faIlure to swab sites or stoppers? ( entirely possible )

Can the vast majority of you afford pharm grade gear if it wasnt greatly discounted or endorsed as part of sweetheart promotion deals? ( my guess is not many )

Am i ruffling feathers and on thin ice? ( most likely )


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## TGB1987 (May 2, 2011)

Supermans Daddy said:


> Good read. However respectfully I submit to you all that there's UGL's that will give any GMP lab a run for their money in quality and production standards. Not all UGL's are in bathrooms and basements. Somes are out here run'n GZPK 100's,M52's as stardard equipment,Hoods,UV sterilie sytems ,Ion units,etc,. Theres some really good ones out there. Problem is you only hear bout the bad ones .The ones that try to filter 500ml thru 1 45 filter with a fuck'n chaulk gun to "save money".lol The good one's are REALLY UNDERGROUND.Most of those have ZERO desire to become a " household name" type of thin . Just say'n
> 
> Peace and Love


 
These labs are the exception and not the rule.  The ones that are very good are ,like you said, the labs that don't want to be household names.  It is hard to trust the little UGLs though because there are a majority of UGLs that do not do things the right way.  So if you are lucky enough to find one that you trust enough to try and end up hitting the jackpot good for you.  I have used one lab  that is similar to what you are speaking of.  Even though I know those labs do exist it doesn't change the fact that most UGLs are not made up to quality standards because it is too difficult and expensive for a small lab to do.  The proper machinery is not cheap.  It is a fine line to walk when looking for a proper UGL.


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## ROID (May 2, 2011)

Supermans Daddy said:


> Good read. However respectfully I submit to you all that there's UGL's that will give any GMP lab a run for their money in quality and production standards. Not all UGL's are in bathrooms and basements. Somes are out here run'n GZPK 100's,M52's as stardard equipment,Hoods,UV sterilie sytems ,Ion units,etc,. Theres some really good ones out there. Problem is you only hear bout the bad ones .The ones that try to filter 500ml thru 1 45 filter with a fuck'n chaulk gun to "save money".lol The *good one's are REALLY UNDERGROUND*.Most of those have ZERO desire to become a " household name" type of thin . Just say'n
> 
> Peace and Love



yep, no need to plaster their name all over every board.

This practice to me says, Lets make as much money as possible before we get busted.


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## trapzilla (May 2, 2011)

Now i'm not gonna quote prices as i'm pretty sure that is against rules but judging from the prices on the OP's sig. If I was to use those GMP companies shiiit i'd never be able to cycle. I can't afford those prices. And HG is out of the question due to allergies, so i'm stcuk with UGL's. It is not through preference but neccessity.


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## ROID (May 2, 2011)

trapzilla said:


> Now i'm not gonna quote prices as i'm pretty sure that is against rules but judging from the prices on the OP's sig. If I was to use those GMP companies shiiit i'd never be able to cycle. I can't afford those prices. And HG is out of the question due to allergies, so i'm stcuk with UGL's. It is not through preference but neccessity.



What type of reaction do you get ?


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## trapzilla (May 2, 2011)

anaphalactic(sp) shock due to all HG I have access to using arachis oil as the solvent. I'm allergic to peanuts you see,I've had to be rushed into hospital at least twice because of HG gear


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## TGB1987 (May 2, 2011)

Yeah that would be terrible Trap.  I know AP and BD both use Arachis oil in their products.  Have you tried to use Test suspension or Water based Winny?


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## ROID (May 2, 2011)

trapzilla said:


> anaphalactic(sp) shock due to all HG I have access to using arachis oil as the solvent. I'm allergic to peanuts you see,I've had to be rushed into hospital at least twice because of HG gear



I would keep an adrenaline shot close by at all times


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## Livebig14 (May 2, 2011)

bump this good post


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## Supermans Daddy (May 2, 2011)

ROID said:


> yep, no need to plaster their name all over every board.
> 
> This practice to me says, Lets make as much money as possible before we get busted.



EXACTLY ! Post'n on public forums would Damn sure say that to me as well Homey. THOSE are the ones I'd worry bout.

But I humbly think that we underestimate technology and it's availability to the world. I will use this as an example and it's illegal as well to keep in context.

Years ago people thought you could not produce ganja of the same quality and strength as Amsterdam. It was impossible to meet CC ( Cannabis Cup) standards. The leaf mold, poor clone'n tech. root rott, spider mites,PH issues,etc. Just could not be done outside their  growrooms. BULLSHIT !!!! Guys from the US win at the Cup now. Mind you,it's still illegal here. Now there's guys with the highest tech, water'n/feed'n systems, better exhaust plans then the original Karl K systems. These people do this in their shops or at home. The purpose of both the ganja dealer and the steroid is to make money. Just like you hear bout guys with 20,000 invested in produce'n high grade ganja because the better their product is the more money they'll make is the exact same idea of a steroid dealer or any good business person. It would only make sense to invest in the thin keep'n you paid. You can find all the machines (FDA approved) used to have a high quality lab produce'n top shelf product for under 10,000. Sell 100 vails  (which is not that hard, just look around lol) and it's paid for. I can't see everybody with UGL's with banners on a million forums in a kicthen like I said with a chaulk gun ,some filters and a bunch of vials, I"M SURE THERE ARE SOME !!  lol I'm sure it's some UGL's sell'n 100 huh ? lol You can find the machines on ebay Homey. It's not the dark ages anymore and the tools to use are there, I personally know a few guys roll'n that way and I'M SURE there's a lot more.As I said before you only see the UGL guys out to hit a lick. I don't think all public labs would do that for the reasons ROID expressed. But for a fact MOST private UGL's are the shit. I'd trust them before I'd trust somethin from over the internet with a brand name "label" on it.Cause like Heavy said at the very beginn'n, do you know what you're inject'n. Labels don't mean shit. If you remember back 8 to 10 years back ,that was the scam even down to the hologram.  At the end of the day it comes down to this, Who do you trust. REAL TALK. All else will still come back to that.The thing bout this that makes me have to laugh is, some people act like the only thing in the universe that people have'nt figured out how to do..........is produce good steroids. That's not very realistic think'n for me.But what the hell would I know lol. You guys enjoy the day.

Peace and Love

Good thread indeedy


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## heavyiron (May 2, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> Any UGL can make Trenbolone to GMP standards as long as they have the facility, desire and money to do so. That's the bummer of the whole thing. Some labs go to great lengths and use Good Manufacturing Practices and other labs don't.


 


Supermans Daddy said:


> Good read. However respectfully I submit to you all that there's UGL's that will give any GMP lab a run for their money in quality and production standards. Not all UGL's are in bathrooms and basements. Somes are out here run'n GZPK 100's,M52's as stardard equipment,Hoods,UV sterilie sytems ,Ion units,etc,. Theres some really good ones out there. Problem is you only hear bout the bad ones .The ones that try to filter 500ml thru 1 45 filter with a fuck'n chaulk gun to "save money".lol The good one's are REALLY UNDERGROUND.Most of those have ZERO desire to become a " household name" type of thin . Just say'n
> 
> Peace and Love


 
Agreed, I made this point earlier in the thread. Some UGL's use GMP standards but many do not. Usually the extremelty cheap products are an indicator that sub standard equipment/practices are being used.


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## heavyiron (May 2, 2011)

SFW said:


> So how many of you have used ugls? ( all of you )
> 
> How many of you have had serious infections or abscesses as a result of using ugls? ( im sure none of you )
> 
> ...


All points of view are welcomed here. Thank you for your thoughts.

We have independent lab results showing contamination of various underground products. The water based products like Winstrol seem to have a higher contamination rate likely due to the water based suspension. Bacteria has an easier time living/growing in water as opposed to oil but even the oil based products sometimes test contaminated.

Llewellyn has published these lab reports in his Underground Anabolics book.

I personally have had several abscesses that I was able to treat without surgery, painful swollen lumps for weeks that caused fevers in excess of 100 degrees F. I use sterile injection techniques but still have had problems. After several injects from the same product the same problem presented. It was definitely poor quality product that caused the reactions. Alinshop was the first place I had these problems about 4 years ago. Since then I have had this happen with another product.

I am on doc prescribed TRT so I have taken a lot of injections over the years. Never once have I had contaminated products from large US pharmacy meds. However I did have problems with a small compounding pharmacy's meds once. This product was purchased legally with my prescription so even compounding pharmacies that have state of the art equipment can make errors in the assembly of Testosterone.


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## srbijadotokija (May 2, 2011)

Check this link boys:

CrimeMedicine.com


Scary....


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## heavyiron (May 2, 2011)

srbijadotokija said:


> Check this link boys:
> 
> CrimeMedicine.com
> 
> ...


I can't understand the language but the English tab had the following info;

*CrimeMedicine.com - a campaign from the Swedish Medical Products Agency. *

CrimeMedicine.com is an information campaign from the Swedish Medical Products Agency. Its purpose is to inform people about the risks involved in bying medicines from unknown Internet sites. 50% of medicines sold on disreputable sites are counterfeit and may contain just about anything, which means that they are potentially lethal. Internet trading in counterfeit medicines is increasing in leaps and bounds. The Medical Products Agency has therefore been tasked by the Swedish Government with launching a public information campaign. 


*About the Medical Products Agency*

The Medical Products Agency is responsible for the approval and control of medicines, among other things. Our task is to ensure that the individual patient and the healthcare system have access to safe and effective products.


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## trapzilla (May 2, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> Yeah that would be terrible Trap. I know AP and BD both use Arachis oil in their products. Have you tried to use Test suspension or Water based Winny?


 
No but i'm thinking about it, I mean you know the exact dosage of test your getting and Hell it got Dorian pretty damn big. I just feel are the Asia Pharma and BD prices justified though? they just seem ridonculously expensive!


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## ANIMALHAUS (May 2, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> Best post I have seen in a long time very informative and true. It is hard to believe some of the practices some of the UGLs use and sell to bodybuilders and athletes like ourselves. Then we are supposed to inject this stuff into our bodies by passing nearly all of the body's defenses. These guys should have respect for a human life enough to not do some of the things they do when manufactoring but guess what they don't. I will always go for Gear that is made up to GMP standards before UGL even though a UGL may sell the product for a 1/4 of the cost that a GMP standard gear runs. It is worth the peace of mind and safety. At least you know what you are getting. Many guys here don't understand this concept and probably never will. Hopefully this article will open some eyes up. Great read Heavy!


 
We can't always blame them.  We as human beings should know when some thing is/isn't good for us.


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## World-Pharma.org (May 2, 2011)

srbijadotokija said:


> Check this link boys:
> 
> CrimeMedicine.com
> 
> ...




Really interested video..another UGL lab..real sterile.


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## trapzilla (May 2, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> WP Winny is on special for $150 for 3 10ml vials (30 ml). Decent price for GMP Winny.


 
yeah, If i do hit up the water based routes it might be an idea, But i think i'll start a thread on test susp-google has been useles for opinions, gonna go straight to the big boys


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## Grozny (May 2, 2011)

Well, everybody knows that steroid based injections are faked. I will pass by the meter why it happens and will discuss how it happens and what could we doto avoid fakes. First of I would like to show you how the oil-based parentals are normally made. After that I???ll try to discover basics of quality testing and some advanced things in brief.

So, lets discus the simplified technical process.
For the manufacturing required ???vehicle??? solution which is contains pharmaceutical parental-grade oil with excipients which are suppress bacteria
growth and enhances solubility of the API i.e. steroid ester as well as could suppress oxidation of the API. Normally, excipients such as benzyl alcohol are
reducing the pain in site of injection, but this is not in the case of fake. I would say faker???s formulation induces pain in the site of injection (I???ll explain later why). The theory of the preparation of the oil-based formulation is simple. Oil-based vehicle controls water content i.e. blood and lymph access at the injection site to make a long term effect. Excipients like benzyl alcohol (BA) are typically added in amount of 9 mg/ml of formulation, this level is considered to be optimal for the local anesthesia. Fakers some times use BA as a solubility enhancer in order to have better solubility of low-quality API. 
The concentration of BA could reach 5% in such formulations. In such dozes BA acts as a cytotoxic agent which is induces local necrosis in the injection site. This is not very dangerous but extremely unpleasant. Being injected not deep (for example 10-15 mm in depth) such formulation causes necrosis between muscle and skin, this can cause serious discomfort and could be dangerous because injection site is continue bleeding thus could be infected. What else? I think that fake formulations do never content anti-oxidation agents. Factory made formulations could contain antioxidant or argon (noble gas) above the liquid. Usually, fakers unable to fill vials with argon during corking.

Now lets discuss oil and API. These two components are added in a significant amount to the formulation, so the quality of them is not unimportant. Oils are
widely used in different applications so there are many quality grades of them. Usually oils for pharmaceutical applications are good enough and not hazardous,but being improperly stored or operated oil could be polluted with moisture, bacteria and sediments.  Usage of non-pharmaceutical oils, thanks god, is rear.API is produced in different grades as well. There are several grades of quality human-grade for parenterals or for tabs, GMP-grade, animal grade. Some good guys are telling ???we use human grade API for the dog formulations??? some bad ones telling ???we use animal grade stuff on humans???. All of them are not very hazardous if operated and stored properly. Typically, the main problem of API is the content of free hormone, i.e. testosterone enanthate contains more or less free testosterone and some amount of enantic acid. These components are not hazardous, but significant content of the testosterone causes low temperature sedimentation of the drug or turbidity. Fakers are trying to suppress this effect by overdosing BA. Widespread problem is the presence of moisture in formulation. This is a key feature that allows verify the quality of a drug. Where is the moisture coming from? First of, low quality oil, API stored in refrigerator in an opened can (fakers are usually makes small amounts, so they can not use factory pack at once), and the third path-way  through bad stoppers during the sterilization in water-steam autoclave. In general, moister is the enemy number one of oil-based formulations, especially if it is a handicraft drug. Moisture causes hydrolysis of ester, loss of solubility, turbidity and sedimentation of the API. 

*How we do detect moisture?*

We can look if the oil in vial is wetting the glass. Low quality mixtures have a poor wetting. We can check if the sediments are present as well. It is easy 
take a laser pointer, shake vial vigorously and watch for the particles in passing light, use a dark room to find illuminated particles. Sediments are coming to handicraft with oil, API powder, and from ambient air (it could be just a usual dust). Factory made drugs are produced in dust-free rooms, API and oil are stored in sealed cans. Before the packing oil solution is normally filtered through 0,22 mkm filter. It is obviously that factory-made drugs have no sediments.

I discovered basics methods of a fake detection and some ideas where problems are come from and how to find them fast, - the pain in the injection site, moisture detection and sediments detection. These methods are not very reliable. Sure, if you will find the turbidity or sediments it is 99% fake. But sometimes you will be unable to check the drug with these methods. Now I???ll describe I brief advanced techniques and methods of chemical analysis. In general there are two major problems here  the dosage and the API kind. It is well-known problem when API is under dosed and if it is substituted with another one, or the both cases in the same time  for example vial contains 25 mg/ml of trenbolone acetate and 25 mg/ml of testosterone propionate instead of 50 mg/ml of trenbolone acetate. Here is two kinds of techniques are employed  quantitative analysis to determine API content and qualitative analysis to determine the nature of API added.

*Quantification.*

This type of analysis could be made according USP recommendations. There are different methods may be employed  high-performance liquid chromatography (HPLC) and spectrophotometry in ultra-violet range(UV). Both of methods have disadvantages, so the analysis should be made by qualified specialists.

*HPLC.*

This method is based on the separation of the drug formulation to individual compounds and quantitative analysis of the target compounds buy UV-detector.

For the separation the solution of drug in isopropyl alcohol is injected to a chromatographic column. Different compounds have a different linear migration speed in this column, so they are separated according the specific retention which is considered to be individual to each compound. Normally, long chain esters are not perfectly separated by conventional commercial HPLC instruments. Adaptation of the instrument for the silica gel column is expensive and usually analysis are made in low-cost way using conventional reversed-phase columns C8 or C18.  Thus compounds are moving with different speed we can identify a target ester using migration time. Quantification in HPLC is provided by a UV spectrophotometric detector. USP recommends wavelength 240 nm for the quantification of testosterone esters and nandrolone esters, many others could be detected at same wavelength as well. This wavelength corresponds to the maximum of UV light absorption by steroids. Short wavelengths are not recommended due to non-specific absorption.

It is believed that HPLC coupled to diode array detector could provide the identification of steroid base. I think that it is not reliable technique, most of steroid bases have similar structure, so they will have a similar UV spectra. Sure, some steroids as trenbolone have unique fingerprint in UV but many others are too similar.

To find a concentration of ester we can add an additional known amount of pure ester. To have a good quantification more then 2 additives are necessary, i.e. if we have a concentration about 50 mg/ml of testosterone propionate we need to analyse this sample we should make a picture of this sample and two pictures with standard additives to the sample solution of testosterone propionate. For the testosterone mixtures such sustanon concentrations of esters could be recalculated to molar concentrations in order to make quantification using single ester as a standard.

*UV-Vis spectrophotometry.*

This method is well known low-cost way to determine the content of many different compounds by the specific light  absorption. This method employees a simple principle  the light absorption is proportional to the compound concentration. For all chemical compounds there is a wavelength where compound absorbs the light. For most steroids the best wavelength is 240 nm. But it is virtually impossible to measure concentration of testosterone ester in this region in a drug. This problem caused by benzyl alcohol which is have a strong absorption at 240 nm. Benzylbenzoate has a similar high absorption (by weight).It is possible to reduce concentration of BA by chemical manipulation, but if formulation contains BB, UV-Vis gives up.


*Thin-layer Chromatography*

All hormones have a different solubility in a given solvent (mostly methanol). These solubility differences are used to separate and identify the steroids on a thin layer plate. This plate consists of a thin layer of porous material that is coated on one side of a plastic, glass, or aluminium plate. The (diluted) solutions of steroids are applied on different spots of the plate, wich is then placed in a developing chamber containing a solvent bath.
As the solvent creeps up the plate by capillary action, it will wash the steroids of their original spots and carry them upwards towards the other end of the plate, some will have to migrate farther from the origin than the others. Thus this chromatographical pattern may be used to identify characteristics of the steroids. The plate can be studied in an ultraviolet viewing box. On the plate also a reference substance is placed, wich can be bought at several different pharmaceutical companies like by example Sigma or Fluka.
The thin-layer chromatography has a few minor disadvantages . Some compounds like by example Testosterone and Boldenone can???t be separated.

Where you to must look is or it well or not a spot sit in a straight line above the numbers at the bottom the plate.  (R = reference pure testosterone, 1 = real Aburaihan, 2 = first tested nepvial, 3 = second
tested nepvial).  What clear to see is, is that there in the nepvials no detecteerbare dust stretch.  It stretch namely no dark spot on the plate what uses is for the separation.  Also there a difference in the height of the spot for the pure testosteron and the enanthaat is.  This is precise as it hears!  The exact theories explain goes here too far, but the spot for the enanthate sit where he must sit. 
Conclusion: in the nepvials, no testosterone enanthate or a comparable steroids it.  In the real vial, testosterone enanthate sit.  


Explanation of the picture  Dilution 100* in methanol.  Measured at  254nm on Merck TLC plates with fluorescentic  layer.  From the real Aburaihan® I yielded 1 micro litre on the plate from the fake 2 micro litres is yielded.  This has been done to see the benzyl alcohol.  This is unfortunately not visible on the picture t, but with the naked eye one sees  is a very vague spot, where the benzyl alcohol sat on the TLC.  It is possible to make the benzyl alcohol visibly, by adding more of the solution onto the plate.  


*API identification.*

There are few methods which are allows to get a fingerprint of the molecular structure. These methods are widely used in chemical analysis, molecular structure research and have a forensic grade reliability due to detailed fingerprint of all molecular parts or atoms. These methods are:

1.      Infrared spectra, or Fourier  transform infrared, FTIR. The most suitable for oil formulations technique is FTIR identification, this method allows direct measurement of spectra in the oil solution. FTIR spectrometer coupled to multiple internal reflectance (MIR) accessory allow both  fingerprint and quantification of the drug. There is the broad number of manufactures of such equipment: PerkinElmer, Bruker, Thermo-Nicolet, Varian, Shimadzu and many others.

2.      Electron-impact mass-spectra  EI/MS, usually coupled to gas chromatography. This method is widely used and named GC-MS. These equipment is widely used, but not the best for this kind of analysis, manufactures are: Thermo, Agilent, PerkinElmer, Shimadzu, Varian and many others.

3.      Nuclear magnetic resonance spectra, NMR, of two kinds  proton magnetic resonance (PMR) and C13 isotope magnetic resonance spectra, C13-NMR. Thisequipment is expensive and made by Bruker,  Hitachi, Varian, Shimadzu.

4.      Liquid chromatography coupled to mass-spectrometer. Well, usual LC-MS just do not gives structural information. This technique shows only molecular weight 
1. Instruments used for the molecular fingerprinting are terribly expensive because of presence of 2 or 3 or even 4 mass analyzers in the instrument.  LC units made by: Waters, Agilent, PerkinElmer, Varian, Shimadzu. MS units made by: Bruker, ABI-Sciex.

5. Melting 

*Wet chemistry.
*
Instrument  based analysis have there limitations. Concerning oil solutions of long-chain esters these disadvantages are critical. Only FTIR/MIR allow identify ester directly with minimum sample manipulation. Other techniques require sample preparation or even preparation of pure steroid base. At this point professional analysts starts there game. Typical pathways has there target in obtaining of pure steroid ester or steroid base or reducing of interfering effects of benzyl compounds. There are several basic techniques  the freezing of oil at low temperature with different additives to cause the precipitation of ester, vacuum evaporation of benzyl alcohol, hydrolysis of a sample in order to have a steroid base. These techniques could be employed one-by-one to have a desired effect.


----------



## Supermans Daddy (May 2, 2011)

trapzilla said:


> yeah, If i do hit up the water based routes it might be an idea, But i think i'll start a thread on test susp-google has been useles for opinions, gonna go straight to the big boys



As far as water based products, amber vials are very hepful in slow'n down bacteria growth. I've alway thought water based products should come packaged as such. Oil is a much safer (bacteria infection wise) and a lot less uncomfortable.Water based items are risky from the time you pass the rubber stopper.lol These just my opinions though as some folks have no pain issues use'n water based products.

Peace and Love


----------



## XYZ (May 2, 2011)

LOL, No comment.


----------



## Imosted (May 2, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> WP Winny is on special for $150 for 3 10ml vials (30 ml). Decent price for GMP Winny.
> 
> http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/world-pharma/128712-3-x-10ml-wisntrol-stanabolic-only-150-a.html



Sorry bro but is this another advertisement thread?
I thought we weren't allowed to discuss *Pricing* or source talk on *Anabolic ZONE*


----------



## DEE151 (May 2, 2011)

I am not going to lie that is some scary shit playing in this game. its a chance we all take.


----------



## paolo584 (May 2, 2011)

They are some excellent UGL's u just have to dig deep to find them.


----------



## heavyiron (May 2, 2011)

paolo584 said:


> They are some excellent UGL's u just have to dig deep to find them.


 Yup, not all UGL's are bad.


----------



## JCBourne (May 2, 2011)

I bet a ton of those were from uneducated idiots who bought complete crap, didn't do the steps to make sure their prep area was clean.

A little bit of research goes a long way...

I know a ton of dudes here use UGL and I have yet read a thread from someone who actually got something as bad as shown in the video.

All you need is a little research and you can find those good UGLs.

I won't get into detail, but from several high ranking people on this forum (including moderators) have told me that some of the sponsors who say they're gear is FDA approved, are actually not. That doesn't take away from it being high quality by any means, but I won't go into anymore detail then that.


----------



## Himik (May 2, 2011)

It all comes down to trust in this game... after all HG gear can be faked by UGLs as well.


----------



## TooOld (May 2, 2011)

SFW said:


> So how many of you have used ugls? ( all of you )
> 
> How many of you have had serious infections or abscesses as a result of using ugls? ( im sure none of you )
> 
> ...



I use only one UGL.
Have been for years with never a problem and I have no interest in fixing what isn't broke.


----------



## TGB1987 (May 2, 2011)

Supermans Daddy said:


> As far as water based products, amber vials are very hepful in slow'n down bacteria growth. I've alway thought water based products should come packaged as such. Oil is a much safer (bacteria infection wise) and a lot less uncomfortable.Water based items are risky from the time you pass the rubber stopper.lol These just my opinions though as some folks have no pain issues use'n water based products.
> 
> Peace and Love


 

Agree with you there.  Water based steroids are much more likely to contain bacteria and are much more uncomfortable to inject without a doubt.


----------



## heavyiron (May 2, 2011)

Here is an article that shows 1 in 5 UGL's tested had toxic heavy metals present in the products. These unregulated labs are slowly poisoning unsuspecting users.

*Are Steroids from Underground Labs Contaminated with Toxic Metals?*

_Don Hooton - Friday, August 14, 2009 _

Although this article from Mesomorphosis.com was posted last year, the information is so important that I thought it important (critical) to share with you on our site again. For those youth that are visiting our site to learn the truth about anabolic steroids, it is crucial that you understand what it is that you are REALLY putting into your body when you acquire your anabolic steroids.

The information in this article should scare everyone!

Don 

_Most bodybuilders who use anabolic steroids manufactured by underground labs (UGLs) in the United States are primarily concerned with whether or not the product is accurately dosed with the anabolic steroid listed on the label. Some more health conscious steroid users are also concerned about potential health risks arising from the contamination of UGL steroid products with bateria and/or heavy metals. Fortunately, bacterial contamination is not a common problem since most UGLs effectively sterilize the product by adding ingredients such as benzyl alcohol, etc. However, few people have actually considered the potential toxicity of using anabolic steroids contaminated with heavy metals. Given that most of the steroid powder is illicitly imported from China, the possibility of contamination with lead, tin, mercury, arsenic, etc. is a real possibility._​

_William Llewellyn, author of the authoritative Anabolics 2007 and editor of Body of Science, recently completed a project designed to help consumers of UGL anabolic steroids to better assess the degree of toxic heavy metal contamination in underground steroids. _
_A total of 14 underground steroid samples were selected for laboratory testing, which included products from Amplio Labs, British Dragon, Diamond Pharma, Generic Anabolics, Generic Pharma, Lizard Laboratories, Medical Inc., Microbiological Labs, Nordic Supplements, Shark Laboratories, SWE Supplements, and Troy Labs. Included in this list were drugs that were made from small underground manufacturers, mid-level operations, and even producers large enough to have their items assembled under contract by drug manufacturing facilities. All 14 samples were analyzed at a registered and licensed facility in the U.S._​*The results of the heavy metals tests revealed that 21% of anabolic steroid products from underground labs were contaminated with toxic heavy metals.*

_William Llewellyn also examined whether the “actual dosage” of anabolic steroids in the UGL products approximately “label claims” of stated ingredient. He tested 1 methandrostenolone product, 2 testosterone enanthate products, 1 testosterone propionate product, 2 boldenone undecylenate products, 3 testosterone cypionate products, 1 trenbolone hexahydro product, 1 trenbolone enanthate product, 1 nandrolone decanoate product and 2 methenolone enanthate products. _

_The quality control of the UGL steroids was terrible. Results revealed that 64% of the UGL steroids did not meet label claims either underdosed or overdosed by greater than 20%. Most were slightly underdosed, one contained no active ingredients, and a few were significantly overdose (by as much as 459%)! Additional information is available on the Body of Science website._​


----------



## Himik (May 2, 2011)

I really don't believe in anything written or said by Don Hooton, just my personal opinion.


----------



## TGB1987 (May 2, 2011)

I trust Heavyiron's judgement and opinion.  He is a veteran of AAS.  He is trying to help others realize the chance they are taking when using UGLs.  No not all UGLs are bad but do you think most labs are going to go out of their way to follow proper protocol when they have no one regulating them.  NO.  Why??? because it costs money and we all know that is what it is all about.   Most UGLs are not safe substitutes for pharm quality gear.  Of course there are exceptions but they are few and far between.  Everyone here thinks that this will not happen to them.  Well many of you have probably already used products that could have had heavy metal contamination and there is no telling what that could mean years down the road.  It is a scary thought.   Would you want to take medicine that was made in a small UGL with no regulations or restrictions.  Many of the UGLs don't know that their products are contaminated because they are unable to check the quality of their powders.  Using cheap powders is what allows UGLs to sell products at prices that are too good to be true.  How else can they sell at these prices and make a profit.  They are making a profit trust me they aren't doing it for free.  Heavy is just trying to open the eyes of members for their own good. Many look for the best price with things in life.  In many cases this is what americans are accustomed to doing but this is not like buying food at a grocery store.  You don't always get the best deal when you pay less for AAS.  Think about the costs of proper production, quality powders, supplies (vials, stoppers, labels so on), and now incorporate some type of profit.  What do you get?  If your price doesn't make sense you should think about what you are doing.  We are not saying you should always buy the most expensive gear available because that is not always the best buy but at least think about the price and do the math.  If something doesn't make sense then you should have your answer.  No one wants to pay more than they have to for anything but realize there has to be a difference.  Try to go off of reviews and common sense.  If there is a product that has zero bad reviews and costs more then most what does that tell you? If you don't want to pay top dollar or can't afford it at least try to look for something that makes sense in the middle that has good reviews.  You don't want to end up having infections or Heavy metal toxicity because you wanted to save a few bucks on gear.  If you can't afford to buy safe gear then you would be better not using any at all in the long run.  It is not worth your health to gain a few pounds of muscle.  Using AAS is supposed to be about taking care of your body and taking it further then possible without AAS.  When you go buy a car do you go with the cheapest one you can find or one that is known for quality and costs more.  Doesn't have to be the most expensive out there but you don't want the cheapest if you want it to last for any length of time.  Please consider your options more carefully.  If you find a great UGL that you think truly follows quality standards and the prices match stick with them.  If you want to feel safe go with one that may cost more but has the reviews to back it up.  It is your choice in the end and I think Heavy made this thread to help members realize that bad things do happen and when something sounds too good to be true it probably is.  Be safe and at least think twice before making a mistake that could cause health issues down the road.  Trust your source and make sure it sounds like a price that at least makes sense.  Stay Safe.


----------



## heavyiron (May 2, 2011)

Himik said:


> I really don't believe in anything written or said by Don Hooton, just my personal opinion.


 He is quoting William Llewellyn directly.


----------



## World-Pharma.org (May 2, 2011)

William Llewellyn is respect guy from big guys. Only few guys don't like him since he always talk the truth and his lab reports show  a lot to all of us...so some guys hate him because of that!


----------



## Justinbro (May 2, 2011)

Surprised this isn't a sticky. Big thanks to Heavyiron. As of right now I'm sitting on a sore glute swollen for the third day from a 300mg/ml ugl blend. The Lab told me it's overdosed and crystalizes so I have to bake it at 230 for 30 minutes with a needle in the top. I learned the hard way to make sure the needle isnt in the oil because when the air expands inside the vial it pushes the oil out and down the vial. I also ordered some filter needles to draw with and 70% alcohol wipes instead of the antiseptic hand wipes I had used. Also going to try .5ml of the blend with .5ml of 200mg  cyp to cut it closer to 250mg/ml which seems the stable limit from what I've read. Now some things I neglected that might not be the gears fault is the alcohol wipes, rushing the injection and not waiting 15 seconds before pulling it out. I also went and did heavy legs right after which I though would help circulate the gear out of my glute but may have pushed it out under the skin. I did shower and use an antiseptik hand wipe and switched to a new 22g 1.5" needle after it was drawn.

 Now my first injection in the other glute was unusually sore for 5 days but no swelling or redness, because I had used HG amps before and was only sore for a day. 

So right now I only have a palm size swelling on the side of my glute and soreness at the injection site across the top of my glute. I started putting a triple antibiotic pain reliever on it like used for burns and scrapes and seems to be helping. I also stopped my whole cycle with letro and proviron and just walking until it's gone. Also started LIV52  and Silymarin with a detox diet to help boost my immune system which may have handled the first injection but not the second.


----------



## World-Pharma.org (May 3, 2011)

Dear Justinbro, big sorry to hear that.its not nice!


----------



## heavyiron (May 3, 2011)

Justinbro said:


> Surprised this isn't a sticky. Big thanks to Heavyiron. As of right now I'm sitting on a sore glute swollen for the third day from a 300mg/ml ugl blend. The Lab told me it's overdosed and crystalizes so I have to bake it at 230 for 30 minutes with a needle in the top. I learned the hard way to make sure the needle isnt in the oil because when the air expands inside the vial it pushes the oil out and down the vial. I also ordered some filter needles to draw with and 70% alcohol wipes instead of the antiseptic hand wipes I had used. Also going to try .5ml of the blend with .5ml of 200mg cyp to cut it closer to 250mg/ml which seems the stable limit from what I've read. Now some things I neglected that might not be the gears fault is the alcohol wipes, rushing the injection and not waiting 15 seconds before pulling it out. I also went and did heavy legs right after which I though would help circulate the gear out of my glute but may have pushed it out under the skin. I did shower and use an antiseptik hand wipe and switched to a new 22g 1.5" needle after it was drawn.
> 
> Now my first injection in the other glute was unusually sore for 5 days but no swelling or redness, because I had used HG amps before and was only sore for a day.
> 
> So right now I only have a palm size swelling on the side of my glute and soreness at the injection site across the top of my glute. I started putting a triple antibiotic pain reliever on it like used for burns and scrapes and seems to be helping. I also stopped my whole cycle with letro and proviron and just walking until it's gone. Also started LIV52 and Silymarin with a detox diet to help boost my immune system which may have handled the first injection but not the second.


Sorry to hear this.

I used to get 300mg/ml Enanthate from a compounding pharmacy in the US. It was legal for me to purchase because I have a prescription. There was almost never any severe pain when I injected it even at the higher mg/ml concentration. Not sure what is causing your problem but my guess is the whole batch needs to be filtered and then baked but even that may not solve the problem. 

I have had pharmacy meds expire that were in half used vials (I used half the meds then stored them) that gave me problems but I think the vial was contaminated after I used it and let it sit so long in my medicine cabinet. Using sterile injecting techniques is crititcal because a dirty stopper or injection site may cause problems.

Anyway, I hope you don't develop any further problems. Take your temperature and if it goes above normal I would see a doctor about anti biotics.

Good luck


----------



## Grozny (May 3, 2011)

trapzilla said:


> If I was to use those GMP companies shiiit i'd never be able to cycle. I can't afford those prices.



one precision about GMP standard a pharmaceutical producer doesn't need the GMP certificate to produce very good quality and sterile medicine. Most of the EU pharmaceutical producers weren't GMP certified 15 years ago and patients have been using their products without a problem for maybe over 25-30 years. One thing is WHO GMP manufacturing or respecting the national Pharmacopoeia. Most country Pharmacopoeias are really good elaborated (most of them are copied from the mature world economies pharmacopoeias) and the standards they impose for the drug manufacturers are high and provide a good safety for the patient/drug user. GMP certified companies are lets say a step forward in manufacturing quality but this is almost irrelevant for the patient/user. A simple example, GMP states that tablet press machinery cover needs to be of stainless steel (maybe SS306). A factory that has a epoxy painted press is not GMP. Oh shit, what a big difference it makes for the tablet user, right?


----------



## Grozny (May 3, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> I made this point earlier in the thread. Some UGL's use GMP standards but many do not. Usually the extremelty cheap products are an indicator that sub standard equipment/practices are being used.



*imo almost all UGL not just that are not GMP *(*none of them are for sure, because they fail from start at API GMP*), but almost all UGL don't respect ANY pharmaceutical manufacturing standard. Having a autoclave, dry oven and maybe a flux doesn't make the lab according to any standards. The "good" UGL are made in R&D conditions, at best!!!. Most of them are done in unacceptable conditions even for veterinary medicine.


----------



## Grozny (May 3, 2011)

paolo584 said:


> They are some excellent UGL's u just have to dig deep to find them.




... Since the aseptic processes to produce pharmaceuticals are failed by ALL UGL (maybe 1% of all UGL work respecting the aseptic principles while the rest do basic errors like washing vials with Ethanol or have no aseptic facilities at all), what methan says is 100% true. 

It doesn't matter if some UGL "chemists" have some knowledge of "brewing" and try to respect some quality standards or other UGL "chemist" has no idea on "brewing", differences are not important. *Both will produce not sterile vials*. If a UGL produces in ISO 9 and washes vials or other UGL doesn't wash the vials at all, practically doesn't make a big difference. Both are highly non sterile.

*In Pharmacy there is no "decent" product or "good" product. There is only Sterile or Not Sterile (not minding API in this discussion).*


----------



## Justinbro (May 3, 2011)

World-Pharma.org said:


> Dear Justinbro, big sorry to hear that.its not nice!


Thanks WP. Seems I wouldn't have to worry about this with your gear from what I've read from alot of people.

FYI the Neosporin triple antibiotic pain reliever helped immediately with the redness and swelling.


----------



## ROID (May 3, 2011)

GymRat707 said:


> I
> 
> I won't get into detail, but from several high ranking people on this forum (including moderators) have told me that some of the sponsors who say they're gear is FDA approved, are actually not. That doesn't take away from it being high quality by any means, but I won't go into anymore detail then that.




lol



Who ?


----------



## XYZ (May 3, 2011)

Grozny said:


> ... Since the aseptic processes to produce pharmaceuticals are failed by ALL UGL (maybe 1% of all UGL work respecting the aseptic principles while the rest do basic errors like washing vials with Ethanol or have no aseptic facilities at all), what methan says is 100% true.
> 
> It doesn't matter if some UGL "chemists" have some knowledge of "brewing" and try to respect some quality standards or other UGL "chemist" has no idea on "brewing", differences are not important. *Both will produce not sterile vials*. If a UGL produces in ISO 9 and washes vials or other UGL doesn't wash the vials at all, practically doesn't make a big difference. Both are highly non sterile.
> 
> *In Pharmacy there is no "decent" product or "good" product. There is only Sterile or Not Sterile (not minding API in this discussion).*


 
ANYTIME this subject comes up you thow in all of these cut and paste BS samples. You have an agenda period, and I'm beyond sick of it.


----------



## heavyiron (May 3, 2011)

Grozny said:


> *imo almost all UGL not just that are not GMP *(*none of them are for sure, because they fail from start at API GMP*), but almost all UGL don't respect ANY pharmaceutical manufacturing standard. Having a autoclave, dry oven and maybe a flux doesn't make the lab according to any standards. The "good" UGL are made in R&D conditions, at best!!!. Most of them are done in unacceptable conditions even for veterinary medicine.


 
This is actually a good point. Thank you for bringing it up.

The home brewer or UGL needs to have the highest quality materials to begin with. Anyone can follow GMP standards if they have the facility and are willing to be inspected but does the homebrewer know for sure their raw materials (API's) like powders are pure? 

*Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient:* Any substance or mixture of substances intended to be used in the manufacture of a drug (medicinal) product and that when used in the production of a drug becomes an active ingredient of the drug product. Such substances are intended to furnish pharmacological activity or other direct effect in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation,treatment or prevention of disease or to effect the structure and function of the body.​ 

Additionally your point has even more force because I don't know of very many UGL's that are willing to provide Cleaning Validation reports to reglatory inspectors.​ 
*Cleaning Validation in the context of Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient manufacture may be defined as:*

_The process of providing documented evidence that the cleaning methods employed within a facility consistently controls potential carryover of product (including intermediates and impurities), cleaning agents and extraneous material into subsequent product to a level which is below predetermined levels._​ 

*It is necessary to Validate Cleaning procedures for the following reasons:*​ 
_a. It is a customer requirement - it ensures the safety and purity of the product._​ 
_b. It is a regulatory requirement in Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient product __manufacture._​ 
_c. It also assures from an internal control and compliance point of view the quality of the process._​ 

*Potential residues*​ 
The Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient Industry involves (in general) the manufacture of Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients by both chemical and physical means through a series of multiple step processes. Plants or individual pieces of equipment, including ancillary equipment, may be used in multi-product manufacture or dedicated to individual products.​ 
The result of inadequate cleaning procedures is that any of a number of contaminants may be present in the next batch manufactured on the equipment such as:​ 
1. Precursors to the Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient​ 
2. By-products and/or degradation products of the Active Pharmaceutical
Ingredient​ 
3. The previous product​ 
4. Solvents and other materials employed during the manufacturing process.​ 
5. Micro-organisms​ 
This is particularly the case where microbial growth may be sustained by the product.​ 
6. Cleaning agents themselves and lubricants


Source

http://apic.cefic.org/pub/4CleaningVal9909.pdf


----------



## World-Pharma.org (May 3, 2011)

Great info...i hope all members who use anabolic steroids and other meds will read it one day!

Best-regards


World Pharma - Buy anabolic steroids online without prescription


----------



## Himik (May 3, 2011)

World-Pharma.org said:


> Great info...i hope all members who use anabolic steroids and other meds will read it one day!
> 
> Best-regards
> 
> ...




No advertisement links in general forum please


----------



## World-Pharma.org (May 3, 2011)

Thanks for info dear Himik!


----------



## Himik (May 3, 2011)

World-Pharma.org said:


> Thanks for info dear Himik!



You are welcome dear WP


----------



## OttoRocket11 (May 3, 2011)

Wow that shit is insane! makes you think twice on what really is in a vile. Thanks Heavy for sharing.


----------



## Supermans Daddy (May 3, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> I trust Heavyiron's judgement and opinion.  He is a veteran of AAS.  He is trying to help others realize the chance they are taking when using UGLs.  No not all UGLs are bad but do you think most labs are going to go out of their way to follow proper protocol when they have no one regulating them.  NO.  Why??? because it costs money and we all know that is what it is all about.   Most UGLs are not safe substitutes for pharm quality gear.  Of course there are exceptions but they are few and far between.  Everyone here thinks that this will not happen to them.  Well many of you have probably already used products that could have had heavy metal contamination and there is no telling what that could mean years down the road.  It is a scary thought.   Would you want to take medicine that was made in a small UGL with no regulations or restrictions.  Many of the UGLs don't know that their products are contaminated because they are unable to check the quality of their powders.  Using cheap powders is what allows UGLs to sell products at prices that are too good to be true.  How else can they sell at these prices and make a profit.  They are making a profit trust me they aren't doing it for free.  Heavy is just trying to open the eyes of members for their own good. Many look for the best price with things in life.  In many cases this is what americans are accustomed to doing but this is not like buying food at a grocery store.  You don't always get the best deal when you pay less for AAS.  Think about the costs of proper production, quality powders, supplies (vials, stoppers, labels so on), and now incorporate some type of profit.  What do you get?  If your price doesn't make sense you should think about what you are doing.  We are not saying you should always buy the most expensive gear available because that is not always the best buy but at least think about the price and do the math.  If something doesn't make sense then you should have your answer.  No one wants to pay more than they have to for anything but realize there has to be a difference.  Try to go off of reviews and common sense.  If there is a product that has zero bad reviews and costs more then most what does that tell you? If you don't want to pay top dollar or can't afford it at least try to look for something that makes sense in the middle that has good reviews.  You don't want to end up having infections or Heavy metal toxicity because you wanted to save a few bucks on gear.  If you can't afford to buy safe gear then you would be better not using any at all in the long run.  It is not worth your health to gain a few pounds of muscle.  Using AAS is supposed to be about taking care of your body and taking it further then possible without AAS.  When you go buy a car do you go with the cheapest one you can find or one that is known for quality and costs more.  Doesn't have to be the most expensive out there but you don't want the cheapest if you want it to last for any length of time.  Please consider your options more carefully.  If you find a great UGL that you think truly follows quality standards and the prices match stick with them.  If you want to feel safe go with one that may cost more but has the reviews to back it up.  It is your choice in the end and I think Heavy made this thread to help members realize that bad things do happen and when something sounds too good to be true it probably is.  Be safe and at least think twice before making a mistake that could cause health issues down the road.  Trust your source and make sure it sounds like a price that at least makes sense.  Stay Safe.



I argree with most of what you said. Price of product does not always consitute quality. Just because you pay 150 bucks for Nike air max trainer from Footlocker, don't mean they are better quality than the same shoe from Total Runner for $100.00. But that's a US thin I imagine. lol The Bulk rate purchases and the connect you use all play a part in price. As I stated earlier, ALL the  machines used to produce FDA approved products can be found on ebay. I should state that I feel as Heavy does and to a lesser extent as TGB does as well about UGL's. Only I don't trust Public UGL's at all. In my mind anyone that sell's illegal drugs ( steroids ) on the internet to anyone with the cash with no script is basically a UGL. REAL TALK . So in REALITY 2 chioces come to mind. Find a solid Private lab or like Heavy said if you are really that worried get a script from a M.D. like Heavy has and ONLY then will you be sure.Other than that deal with the fact that THEY ARE ALL UGL's. Some nicer than others some nicer labels, more ad's ,good quality even, but illegal UGL non the less. That may sound ugly as hell or taste bitter, but swallow cause thats real shit. And I'ma stand by that because of that one magic word which makes them all under the same banner.......ILLEGAL. and you can't have it both ways.

Peace and Love


----------



## paolo584 (May 3, 2011)

Grozny said:


> ... Since the aseptic processes to produce pharmaceuticals are failed by ALL UGL (maybe 1% of all UGL work respecting the aseptic principles while the rest do basic errors like washing vials with Ethanol or have no aseptic facilities at all), what methan says is 100% true.
> 
> It doesn't matter if some UGL "chemists" have some knowledge of "brewing" and try to respect some quality standards or other UGL "chemist" has no idea on "brewing", differences are not important. *Both will produce not sterile vials*. If a UGL produces in ISO 9 and washes vials or other UGL doesn't wash the vials at all, practically doesn't make a big difference. Both are highly non sterile.
> 
> *In Pharmacy there is no "decent" product or "good" product. There is only Sterile or Not Sterile (not minding API in this discussion).*


 
WTF? ok


----------



## paolo584 (May 3, 2011)

"swallow cause that real shit"  lol.  i like that rude boy


----------



## damage (May 3, 2011)

it goes without saying that anything you inject in your body absolutely positively needs to be sterile.

How to confirm that the vials you get from your UGL are sterile? I dont know. I guess you would have to look for the sources with the best reviews.....preferably one with no bad reviews.


----------



## World-Pharma.org (May 3, 2011)

damage said:


> it goes without saying that anything you inject in your body absolutely positively needs to be sterile.
> 
> How to confirm that the vials you get from your UGL are sterile? I dont know. I guess you would have to look for the sources with the best reviews.....preferably one with no bad reviews.




Big big true!


----------



## Grozny (May 4, 2011)

CT said:


> ANYTIME this subject comes up you thow in all of these cut and paste BS samples. You have an agenda period, and I'm beyond sick of it.



its almost all the time a same questions this maybe be my slogan 

In Pharmacy there is no "decent" product or "good" product. There is only Sterile or Not Sterile


----------



## Grozny (May 4, 2011)

damage said:


> How to confirm that the vials you get from your UGL are sterile? I dont know. I guess you would have to look for the sources with the best reviews.....preferably one with no bad reviews.



actually in each city there are at least few labs that can do a microbiological and pyrogen testing for less than 60$. it takes few days and you`ll know if you are safe or not. most ugl especially water based are not sterile and filled with pyrogen.


----------



## JCBourne (May 4, 2011)

Supermans Daddy said:


> *In my mind anyone that sell's illegal drugs ( steroids ) on the internet to anyone with the cash with no script is basically a UGL. REAL TALK . So in REALITY 2 chioces come to mind. Find a solid Private lab or like Heavy said if you are really that worried get a script from a M.D. like Heavy has and ONLY then will you be sure.Other than that deal with the fact that THEY ARE ALL UGL's. Some nicer than others some
> *
> Peace and Love



Very well said, and I agree 100%.


----------



## XYZ (May 4, 2011)

Grozny said:


> its almost all the time a same questions this maybe be my slogan
> 
> In Pharmacy there is no "decent" product or "good" product. There is only Sterile or Not Sterile


 

Than answer this, a "pharmacy" vial of test which is under filled, underdosed and sterile is better than a UGL which is dosed correct, filled correctly and sterile?

This is a total contradiction of what you said earlier, sterile or not sterile. Then if that's the case it wouldn't matter if it's UGL or a "pharmacy" grade test, ONLY if it's sterile?


----------



## World-Pharma.org (May 5, 2011)

I need to bump it so more members will read it and see.

BUMP


----------



## Justinbro (May 5, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> Sorry to hear this.
> 
> I used to get 300mg/ml Enanthate from a compounding pharmacy in the US. It was legal for me to purchase because I have a prescription. There was almost never any severe pain when I injected it even at the higher mg/ml concentration. Not sure what is causing your problem but my guess is the whole batch needs to be filtered and then baked but even that may not solve the problem.
> 
> ...



Thanks again. In the clear now. Definitely gonna start using Neosporin after injecting ugl from now on because when I first applied it the redness and swelling went away by morning and I thought I was in the clear so went to the gym and it came back and so I kept up the Neosporin twice a day after a hot shower so it went deep in the skin and worked like a charm. Triple antibiotic painreliever says it all. Keep in mind it was only palm sized and may not work on really big and bad infections.


----------



## heavyiron (May 8, 2011)

Justinbro said:


> Thanks again. In the clear now. Definitely gonna start using Neosporin after injecting ugl from now on because when I first applied it the redness and swelling went away by morning and I thought I was in the clear so went to the gym and it came back and so I kept up the Neosporin twice a day after a hot shower so it went deep in the skin and worked like a charm. Triple antibiotic painreliever says it all. Keep in mind it was only palm sized and may not work on really big and bad infections.


 Glad to hear your body is fighting it off.


----------



## World-Pharma.org (May 8, 2011)

BUMP....

best-regards

WP


----------



## TJTJ (May 9, 2011)

Supermans Daddy said:


> ...ALL the  machines used to produce FDA approved products can be found on ebay...Only I don't trust Public UGL's at all. In my mind anyone that sell's...on the internet to anyone with...no script is basically a UGL....So in REALITY 2 chioces come to mind. Find a solid Private lab or like Heavy said if you are really that worried get a script from a M.D....



Ive noticed I dont see any threads of people flipping out and posting  jacked up body images of themselves caused by ghetto made gear like in the video. Which btw nearly  make me sick to my stomach watching.

Have there been postings with photos on this forum of stuff like this happening to  them? Or where they deleted? I can see being called out would be bad for  business.

No joke. I dont trust anyone now. Im even worried about IML. I saw  pinning in the near future but now...pfft! shit with the possibilities of wide gaping holes caused by flesh eating bacteria going as far as exposing your internal muscles, strange white pus with blood oozing  out of  your arm or fatal heavy metals being used? I think I'll pass. Not feeling the love anymore. 

Would you say this includes pills and caps too? I can see pressed pills being easier to conceal unwanted ingredients. Unlike SuperMansDad who could see through the pills , us humans can only see through glass.

Which I dont understand why they use such toxic metals. I mean, is it  meant as a filler? if so, how much is it replacing and what are they  replacing? And as far as proper said dosage sold the range of over to under is just too wide of a margin. 

After sanitary production, proper dosing is #2. 

Also is it possible to "boil" the bottle and sterilize the internal contains? 

I wish I had the cash, or even insurance for that matter, to see a doctor.


----------



## TakeItToTheLimit (May 9, 2011)

I swear all this sounds like is adverstisement . I've used many UGL and never once had a problem and juice has always been legit and well dosed


----------



## Supermans Daddy (May 9, 2011)

TJTJ said:


> Would you say this includes pills and caps too? I can see pressed pills being easier to conceal unwanted ingredients. Unlike SuperMansDad who could see through the pills , us humans can only see through glass.



I'm look'n at you now. It's a Kryptonian  thang ! LOLOL


Peace and Love


----------



## TakeItToTheLimit (May 9, 2011)

Livebig14 said:


> bump this good post




I will pm you when I get to 50 post. N btw British dragon is not human grade. I get it locally for half the price of that sponsor here that sells it


----------



## TakeItToTheLimit (May 9, 2011)

World-Pharma.org said:


> Great info...i hope all members who use anabolic steroids and other meds will read it one day!
> 
> Best-regards
> 
> ...



Lmao exactly my point. This is an advertisement thread. Heads up buddy you sell UGL lol


----------



## TakeItToTheLimit (May 9, 2011)

Supermans Daddy said:


> EXACTLY ! Post'n on public forums money. Just like you hear bout guys with 20,000 invested in produce'n high grade ganja because the better their product is the more money they'll make is the exact same idea of a steroid dealer or any good business person. It would only make sense to invest in the thin keep'n you paid. You  would do that for the reasons ROID expressed. But for a fact MOST private UGL's are the shit. I'd trust them before I'd trust somethin from over the internet with a brand name "label" on it.Cause like Heavy said at the very beginn'n, do you know what you're inject'n. Labels don't mean shit. If you remember back 8 to 10 years back ,that was the scam even down to the hologram.  At the end of the day it comes down to this, Who do you trust. REAL TALK. All else will still come back to that.The thing bout this that makes me have to laugh is, some people act like the only thing in the universe that people have'nt figured out how to do..........is produce good steroids. That's not very realistic think'n for me.But what the hell would I know lol. You guys enjoy the day.
> 
> Peace and Love
> 
> Good thread indeedy



Real talk. I got your pm man I'll pm you back once I get my post count to 50


----------



## World-Pharma.org (May 9, 2011)

Dear TakeItToTheLimit, i think you dont see i am Approved Sponsors here..maybe see my reps points also 

best-regards

wp


----------



## TGB1987 (May 10, 2011)

I trust the quality of AP products. One of the very few where this is the case. I am using the AP winstrol injectable now. It is smooth and painless which is saying something with a water based product. Also I wouldn't trust any other brand with an injectable water based product. Water based AAS are prone to much higher bacteria levels and has to be produced under proper conditions to prevent issues.


----------



## Supermans Daddy (May 10, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> I know one thing for sure you never hear about anyone having any issues with anything from WP.  One of the very few where this is the case.  I am using the AP winstrol injectable now.  It is smooth and painless which is saying something with a water based product.  Also I wouldn't trust any other sponser with an injectable water based product.  Water based AAS are prone to much higher bacteria levels and has to be produced under proper conditions to prevent issues.



All due respect, this does give the "advertisement" vibe.So I can easily see how that could be presumed .If it walks like a duck ................. you know the rest. In reality I'm sure as far as UGL's  WP's is one of the better UGL's out there.

Peace and Love


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## Big Pimpin (May 10, 2011)

There's going to be a lot of crow eating if WP ever disappears.


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## TakeItToTheLimit (May 10, 2011)

World-Pharma.org said:


> Dear TakeItToTheLimit, i think you dont see i am Approved Sponsors here..maybe see my reps points also
> 
> best-regards
> 
> wp



Do you think I give two shits if your an approved sponsor here? Rep points don't mean shit to me. I get your British dragon and Asia pharma and organon locally for half the price you sell it for. Only an idiot pays those prices you a charging


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## heavyiron (May 10, 2011)

Go easy guys, no need to flame and be disrespectful.

Thanks


----------



## ROID (May 10, 2011)

Please go read my FDA post.

It will clear up all of your concerns and questions.


----------



## TakeItToTheLimit (May 10, 2011)

ROID said:


> Please go read my FDA post.
> 
> It will clear up all of your concerns and questions.




Lol yeah bro I need to order some of those FDA pins so the UGL Asia pharma and British dragon turn into FDA gear lmao


----------



## ROID (May 10, 2011)

TakeItToTheLimit said:


> Lol yeah bro I need to order some of those FDA pins so the UGL Asia pharma and British dragon turn into FDA gear lmao



Honestly, I don't think APor BD is UGL.

I'm not getting into that FDA approved deal but I am almost 100% positive that AP and BD are made to a higher standard than any other "UGL" and i'm confident that it is dosed correct and what is stated on the label is what is inside the vial. 

The biggest problem with AP/BD is unfortunately WP himself.  At least he is not marketing a counterfeit product labeled as galenikca, etc....


----------



## TGB1987 (May 10, 2011)

Supermans Daddy said:


> All due respect, this does give the "advertisement" vibe.So I can easily see how that could be presumed .If it walks like a duck ................. you know the rest. In reality I'm sure as far as UGL's WP's is one of the better UGL's out there.
> 
> Peace and Love


 
Apparently I can't post an experience without it being an ad. Take it as you will.  AP is a great brand UGL or HG, no matter what disputes suround the brand.  Maybe you should try AP Supermans Daddy's.  That way you can see for yourself.  AP is good no matter where it comes from. No disrespect taken.  I agree that the sponser talk should be reserved for the sponser section but there is no issue with talking about brands.


----------



## TakeItToTheLimit (May 10, 2011)

ROID said:


> Honestly, I don't think APor BD is UGL.
> 
> I'm not getting into that FDA approved deal but I am almost 100% positive that AP and BD are made to a higher standard than any other "UGL" and i'm confident that it is dosed correct and what is stated on the label is what is inside the vial.
> 
> The biggest problem with AP/BD is unfortunately WP himself.  At least he is not marketing a counterfeit product labeled as galenikca, etc....



Your right. Asia pharma and British dragon are real good. I for one love British dragon and get it locally and to me it's one of the best gear in the game. My only problem is WP. The way he promotes his shit like it's the best. Geneza is just as good and way less expensive. And british dragon ain't worth $160. I pay $80 a bottle from my local guy for the new British dragon.  But oh well if your willing to pay $160 your an idiot


----------



## TGB1987 (May 10, 2011)

TakeItToTheLimit said:


> I swear all this sounds like is adverstisement . I've used many UGL and never once had a problem and juice has always been legit and well dosed


 
By the way I edited your post and my post to take out Sponser talk you statement still says the same thing but lets keep this to brands and not sponsers. There is a sponser section for that kind of thing. Now since you have UGLs and never had problems doesn't mean you won't in the future. Have you ever heard of heavymetal contamination. It could have negative effects years down the road. Many sponser buy contaminated powders from China that are loaded with Heavy metal poisons and other toxins. This is something that no one really knows how it could harm you. Also have you ever had blood work to prove that the UGLs you were using were dosed accurately. What is bad is many of you thiink you are using a good UGL that is cheap but have no idea what you are actually injecting. Quality during manufactoring is non existent in many cases. In many cases you are getting products that are underdosed. Only way to know is by testing the gear in a lab and/or at least some blood work to see an estimate of how much test you are using. To say you have used many UGLs and not had an issue is not something that you can prove. Because who knows what damage you may have or not have done. If you want to talk negatively about AP at least have the respect to actually use the lab or test it first and this goes for everyone here.  AP has great reviews for a reason.  I have honestly never heard anything negative about the actual products but I have heard a lot of controversial issues regarding whether it is a UGL or HG.  The products are good either way and frankly none of us have proof as to if it is truly a UGL or if it does have actual HG products (obviously not all the products are approved for Humans but some may be who is to say for sure)  If someone has solid proof that it is a UGL that is undeniable then please post it so we can clear that up.  If it is a UGL it is way beyond your normal UGL with Quality standards.   I have seen the blood work proof of the AP products.  G2G no matter where you get it from.


----------



## ROID (May 10, 2011)

TakeItToTheLimit said:


> Your right. Asia pharma and British dragon are real good. I for one love British dragon and get it locally and to me it's one of the best gear in the game. My only problem is WP. The way he promotes his shit like it's the best. Geneza is just as good and way less expensive. And british dragon ain't worth $160. I pay $80 a bottle from my local guy for the new British dragon.  But oh well if your willing to pay $160 your an idiot



For some they would rather pay double and get what they order instead of paying a cheap price and just hoping that what you get is real or even for that matter that it just has a hormone in it. It is what it is and things will not change.

but hey, all the sources here are G2G !!!


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## TGB1987 (May 10, 2011)

TakeItToTheLimit said:


> Your right. Asia pharma and British dragon are real good. I for one love British dragon and get it locally and to me it's one of the best gear in the game. My only problem is WP. The way he promotes his shit like it's the best. Geneza is just as good and way less expensive. And british dragon ain't worth $160. I pay $80 a bottle from my local guy for the new British dragon. But oh well if your willing to pay $160 your an idiot


 
As I have said let's keep this about the products.  This is not a sponser thread.   To say Geneza is just as good is fine if you can prove it.  Have you had blood work while using Geneza?   I am glad you agree BD is good and if you can get it cheaper then great.  Don't attack a sponser who is carrying a product that even you have said is good.  Not everyone can get it cheaper.  If you don't like a sponser then don't use them but don't bash them especially when they do carry good products.  For those who aren't able to get good products they may use a more pricey sponser instead of paying less and getting low quality gear.  It is the customer choice.  I am sure if everyone could get BD for 80$ they would too.


----------



## Arnold (May 10, 2011)

ROID said:


> Honestly, I don't think APor BD is UGL.
> 
> I'm not getting into that FDA approved deal but I am almost 100% positive that AP and BD are made to a higher standard than any other "UGL" and i'm confident that it is dosed correct and what is stated on the label is what is inside the vial.



I agree.


----------



## TakeItToTheLimit (May 10, 2011)

at the end of the day is up to the person to decide what brand or sponsor to use. So I'll leave it at that. No point in arguing over this


----------



## World-Pharma.org (May 10, 2011)

You must to be a nice guy TakeItToTheLimit and you must to have a lot of friends..nice guy.
I like you.


----------



## Supermans Daddy (May 10, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> Apparently I can't post an experience without it being an ad. Take it as you will.




You know I respect you and you and I disagree bout certain but ALWAYS with respect involved. But I'ma keep it real and you know that bout me. Obviously you seen my point and did the right thin and deleted those because that really did come off like a huge plug. As far as try'n that product ,no need I have several friends that have and have given it the OK and I have a GREAT source that I would not have to sell my busa to do a cycle.lolol I think the real issue here is the definition of an underground lab. As I said and will continue to stand by is ANY LAB THAT SELL'S ILLEGAL DRUGS INCLUDE"N STEROIDS TO ANY PERSON WITH THE READY CASH,WITHOUT A SCRIPT ON THE INTERNET NO MATTER THE STANDARDS USED OR QUALITY IS INDEED AN UNDERGROUND LAB.SINCE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO RUN A LEGIT LAB UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS, End of story. How is that hard to understand ? Once that's clear then it's simply who has access to a good clean product at a reasonable price. If you don't want to deal with UGL's get a script. Because if you can find them on forums..............THEY CAN ONLY BE UGL'S . Damn,Be real with yourself. This shit is illegal.Other than that if there were a source that were not UGL with all the proper legit certs,distribution rights, licence to sell, and I have a 100% legit script.......then pick a police station and meet me there with a few vials. Should'nt be a problem. I hope that sounded as stupid as it is. lolol So in conclusion the answer to the topic of this thread is if you don't have a script, then NO you do not know what you are inject'n. You may think you know but unless you're there or got that scrpit............YOU DON'T.Stevie Wonder can see that.

Peace and Love


----------



## heavyiron (May 10, 2011)

What is illegal in the States may be perfectly legal in other Countries. In other words they may not see it the same way since their laws differ from ours but I do hear you.

All I know is AP is 100% good to go. It is the real deal. The Anadrol is VERY potent. Reminds me of the Syntex A-50's back in the 80's. Also the AP tren ace is rediculously clean and potent. Best I have ever used. Over and over guys that get labs on the AP cyp have great reports. At least the ones I know in real life.

Bottom line is you can shoot random cheap products or the real deal. Some guys drive a volkswagon bug and other guys drive an Infiniti. I don't care if a product costs $50 more a vial. I am injecting that stuff the rest of my life and I want to be sure its 100% correct. $50 may be a lot to some guys but its nothing to me because I know what I am getting is clean, properly dosed and the correct hormone made in a factory not the kitchen of some Chinese hut by a guy who forgot to wash his hands.


----------



## Supermans Daddy (May 10, 2011)

Your original idea is definitely the best as well as the most logical if those concerns prevail, Get a script and call it a day. I understood 4 pages ago. lolol

Peace and Love


----------



## heavyiron (May 10, 2011)

Supermans Daddy said:


> Your original idea is definitely the best as well as the most logical if those concerns prevail, Get a script and call it a day. I understood 4 pages ago. lolol
> 
> Peace and Love


 I love you brother...


----------



## Supermans Daddy (May 10, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> I love you brother...



I love you back Big Homey !

Peace and Love


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## TJTJ (May 10, 2011)

aww, Bromance


----------



## TGB1987 (May 10, 2011)

I really look forward to trying the anadrol.  I wasn't around when the Syntex A-50's where available but I have heard many many good things about them.


----------



## heavyiron (May 10, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> I really look forward to trying the anadrol. I wasn't around when the Syntex A-50's where available but I have heard many many good things about them.


 Horsepower in a pill...


----------



## Big Pimpin (May 10, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> I really look forward to trying the anadrol.  I wasn't around when the Syntex A-50's where available but I have heard many many good things about them.




The Korean ones that seemed to follow the Syntex wave were almost as good for less money and both blew away what everyone thinks is great nowadays.


----------



## TGB1987 (May 10, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> Horsepower in a pill...


 
Sounds like a good time....


----------



## heavyiron (May 10, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> Sounds like a good time....


Best Anadrol I have done in years...


----------



## TJTJ (May 10, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> Best Anadrol I have done in years...



And these are available now?


----------



## heavyiron (May 10, 2011)

TJTJ said:


> And these are available now?


 No idea, I ran it back in February.


----------



## NOPAIN (May 12, 2011)

Talking about all UGL production is in a basment?? Lmao I think not.


http://genshilabs.com/page/production.html


----------



## heavyiron (May 12, 2011)

NOPAIN said:


> Talking about all UGL production is in a basment?? Lmao I think not.
> 
> 
> http://genshilabs.com/page/production.html


 
Who said all UGL production is in a basement?

 I watched this a few times but its weird that they never show the actual Gen Shi product with their labels rolling off the assembly line and all the Gen Shi logos look superimposed over the vid. Video looks doctored to me.


----------



## ROID (May 12, 2011)

NOPAIN said:


> Talking about all UGL production is in a basment?? Lmao I think not.
> 
> 
> http://genshilabs.com/page/production.html



All the larger UGLs show some kind of super nice lab inside a multi million dollar building.

its just for show and nothing more.

There are some out there that have a very nice setup but you aren't going to find them advertising on message boards.


----------



## damage (May 13, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> Who said all UGL production is in a basement?
> 
> I watched this a few times but *its weird that they never show the actual Gen Shi product with their labels rolling off the assembly line *and all the Gen Shi logos look superimposed over the vid. Video looks doctored to me.



this.


----------



## Grozny (May 13, 2011)

NOPAIN said:


> Talking about all UGL production is in a basment?? Lmao I think not.
> 
> 
> http://genshilabs.com/page/production.html



fake video its pretty great business ethics, to scam their clients calming their video are the ones presented on their website its probably means the brand is good and respects its customers ?


----------



## euroking (May 13, 2011)

Good luck making a video like this you can easily see how genshi blisters looks like and how the tabs looks like you can see its same

and i dont know who said all UGL production is in basement 

you maked a thread saying something do you know what you are injecting when using UGL

maybe i misunderstood

anyway i will not go into discussion

its the users experience that are important 

not these posts and flaiming other brands 

quality speak for the producst



heavyiron said:


> Who said all UGL production is in a basement?
> 
> I watched this a few times but its weird that they never show the actual Gen Shi product with their labels rolling off the assembly line and all the Gen Shi logos look superimposed over the vid. Video looks doctored to me.


----------



## Imosted (May 13, 2011)

Grozny said:


> fake video its pretty great business ethics, to scam their clients calming their video are the ones presented on their website its probably means the brand is good and respects its customers ?




Do you have any proof that this Video is fake or are you just making an assumption?


----------



## heavyiron (May 13, 2011)

euroking said:


> Good luck making a video like this you can easily see how genshi blisters looks like and how the tabs looks like you can see its same
> 
> and i dont know who said all UGL production is in basement
> 
> ...


Yeah, I wish the video was more clear. Maybe get a new video showing the Gen Shi blisters coming off the assembly line or labeled Gen Shi vials.

I have never used Gen Shi so I don't have a personal educated opinion on the product. I'm neutral about Gen Shi at this time. I'm in no way flaming Gen Shi at all.


----------



## Grozny (May 13, 2011)

Imosted said:


> Do you have any proof that this Video is fake or are you just making an assumption?



I m smart enough to see that is bad joke video.


----------



## Imosted (May 13, 2011)

Grozny said:


> I m smart enough to see that is bad joke video.



ok So you saying it is a smart guess.


----------



## World-Pharma.org (May 13, 2011)

I think Grozny is right...
I don't see anything i can say its real..if they make real video they show for sure something more..but they didn't show anything..
Maybe they can make new better and real video.


----------



## euroking (May 13, 2011)

Lets say he is right 

Can you post your pharmacy license number?

with the manufacturer of your producst being maked with the adres?

its FDA approved so it should not be a problem i guess?



World-Pharma.org said:


> I think Grozny is right...
> I don't see anything i can say its real..if they make real video they show for sure something more..but they didn't show anything..
> Maybe they can make new better and real video.


----------



## KILLEROFSAINTS (May 13, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> Best Anadrol I have done in years...


 how come most of mine came in a baggie?


----------



## scwarzenegger (May 13, 2011)

Well so far I think Genshi is legit. They have professional made products, and Im right now testing their test e, so far so good. But if the video is true is maybe another story!?


----------



## World-Pharma.org (May 13, 2011)

Dear *euroking, but WHO ARE YOU THAT I WILL GIVE YOU THAT????? YOU MUST TO BE REAL FUNNY!

THE ONLY ONE WHO WILL GET IT IS GOVERNMENT OR OR SOME GOVERNMENT AGENCY if they come to me and ask!

ITS SAME AS I ASK YOU, GIVE ME YOUR BUSINESS PLAN AND ALL..


Best-regards

WP

*


----------



## euroking (May 14, 2011)

I dont claim i am a real pharmacy with a license

and i dont claim i am FDA APPROVED THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE what way you are claiming what you are

when people ask you everything is legal running the way you are doing it and the manufacturer is real

so how dangerous can it be if everything you are doing is real legal with license?

Right have to be right 

and until now i only see balkan writing their adres with contact details

however they have all their papers with the goverment

maybe you should do the same so people can trust your words?



World-Pharma.org said:


> Dear *euroking, but WHO ARE YOU THAT I WILL GIVE YOU THAT????? YOU MUST TO BE REAL FUNNY!
> 
> THE ONLY ONE WHO WILL GET IT IS GOVERNMENT OR OR SOME GOVERNMENT AGENCY if they come to me and ask!
> 
> ...


----------



## GH Consigliere (May 14, 2011)

Oh boy!! Be nice guys !!


----------



## Himik (May 14, 2011)

Shit just got real!


----------



## Grozny (May 14, 2011)

Come on bro the proof of a brand being UGL or HG is photos of its factory (or address of the factory anyone can see where is) and some pics from inside it. Per example Balkan Pharmaceuticals is not UGL but they do not make public photos of their factory same as Asia Pharma. Now both of these pharma houses complies with national GMP/FDA rules, had national inspections.

For Asia pharma things are well in place at their end, peoples who beg for their registration numbers and paper scans of their license are either DEA guys or some egomaniacs from East. This company is just trying to be safe rather than hide some things.

Now the funniest thing is that most of the small UG manufacturers saying on their website that their gear is made with GMP raws in 100% GMP environment but in most of cases its apartment jobs.


----------



## euroking (May 14, 2011)

BUT WP claims AP is not a UGL?

and why should asia pharma not be safe when they are FDA approved?

they should not hide anything when its FDA approved should they?

all information should be in the website like balkan pharma have





Grozny said:


> Come on bro the proof of a brand being UGL or HG is photos of its factory (or address of the factory anyone can see where is) and some pics from inside it. Per example Balkan Pharmaceuticals is not UGL but they do not make public photos of their factory same as Asia Pharma. Now both of these pharma houses complies with national GMP/FDA rules, had national inspections.
> 
> For Asia pharma things are well in place at their end, peoples who beg for their registration numbers and paper scans of their license are either DEA guys or some egomaniacs from East. This company is just trying to be safe rather than hide some things.


----------



## GH Consigliere (May 14, 2011)

I like genshi


----------



## Grozny (May 14, 2011)

I think also that Genshi is good lab but their vid is 100% fake.


----------



## GH Consigliere (May 14, 2011)

Can we all get along ?????  By Rodney king


----------



## Grozny (May 14, 2011)

euroking said:


> BUT WP claims AP is not a UGL?
> 
> and why should asia pharma not be safe when they are FDA approved?
> 
> ...



Asia Pharma isnt a UG lab, Its registered, so people can call it Human Grade.


----------



## Himik (May 14, 2011)

Grozny said:


> Come on bro the proof of a brand being UGL or HG is photos of its factory (or address of the factory anyone can see where is) and some pics from inside it. Per example Balkan Pharmaceuticals is not UGL but they do not make public photos of their factory same as Asia Pharma. Now both of these pharma houses complies with national GMP/FDA rules, had national inspections.
> 
> For Asia pharma things are well in place at their end, peoples who beg for their registration numbers and paper scans of their license are either DEA guys or some egomaniacs from East. This company is just trying to be safe rather than hide some things.
> 
> Now the funniest thing is that most of the small UG manufacturers saying on their website that their gear is made with GMP raws in 100% GMP environment but in most of cases its apartment jobs.



BP is not HG, it's offshore registered UGL.

I would also like to know why on earth would DEA care about their THAI FDA documents. Here is the definition of DEA:

Drug Enforcement Agency - enforces compliance with the Controlled Substances Act. This includes placing medications into the appropriate schedule, monitoring records and reports of controlled substances, registering pharmacies, issuing DEA Forms 222 and 41,and monitoring the destruction of controlled substances.

They have no jurisdiction when it comes to international affairs.


----------



## Grozny (May 14, 2011)

Himik said:


> BP is not HG, it's offshore registered UGL.



u are on crack bro, balkan is HG u can find on the official website of 
Ministry of Health  from Republic of Moldova a drug list of registered medicines  and all balkan products are there

here is drug list from :


SC Balkan Pharmaceuticals SRL						
Anapolon	comprimate	50 mg		N5; N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	13355	23.10.2008
Anastrozol	comprimate	0,25 mg		N20x3	13114	30.07.2008
Anastrozol	comprimate	1 mg		N20x3	13115	30.07.2008
Aquatest	suspensie injectabilă	100 mg/ml	1 ml 	N5	13619	24.12.2008
Aquatest	suspensie injectabilă	100 mg/ml	2 ml 	N5	13620	24.12.2008
Aquatest	suspensie injectabilă	100 mg/ml	5 ml 	N1	13621	24.12.2008
Citomed	comprimate	50 mcg		N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	11952	03.10.2007
Clenbuterol	comprimate	20 mcg		N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	11953	03.10.2007
Clenbuterol	comprimate	40 mcg		N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	11954	03.10.2007
Clomed	comprimate	50 mg		N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	13622	24.12.2008
Danabol	comprimate	10 mg		N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	11955	03.10.2007
Danabol	comprimate	50 mg		N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	11956	03.10.2007
Esculap	comprimate	20 mg		N5; N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	13356	23.10.2008
Exedrol	comprimate	25 mg		N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	11960	03.10.2007
Finasteridă	comprimate	1 mg		N20x3; N25	13116	30.07.2008
Finasteridă	comprimate	5 mg		N20x3	13117	30.07.2008
Halotest	comprimate	2 mg		N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	11957	03.10.2007
Halotest	comprimate	5 mg		N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	11958	03.10.2007
Halotest	comprimate	10 mg		N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	11959	03.10.2007
Letrozol	comprimate	2,5 mg		N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	13623	24.12.2008
Nandrolonă-D	soluţie injectabilă uleioasă	5%	1 ml; 2 ml; 5 ml; 10	N1; N5; N10	11672	26.06.2007
Nandrolonă-D	soluţie injectabilă uleioasă	10 %	1 ml; 2 ml; 5 ml; 10	N1; N5; N10	11673	26.06.2007
Nandrolonă-D	soluţie injectabilă uleioasă	20 %	1 ml; 2 ml; 5 ml; 10	N1; N5; N10	11674	26.06.2007
Oxandrolon	comprimate	10 mg		N20x3	13118	30.07.2008
Parabolan	soluţie injectabilă	100 mg/ml	10 ml	N1; N5; N10; N100	14094	25.05.2009
Parabolan	soluţie injectabilă	100 mg/ml	2 ml	N1; N5; N10; N100	14095	25.05.2009
Parabolan	soluţie injectabilă	100 mg/ml	5 ml	N1; N5; N10; N100	14096	25.05.2009
Parabolan	soluţie injectabilă	100 mg/ml	1 ml	N5	13932	14.04.2009
Primobol	comprimate	50 mg		N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	12482	29.01.2008
Primobol	soluţie injectabilă	100 mg/ml	1 ml	N1; N5; N10	12483	29.01.2008
Primobol	soluţie injectabilă	100 mg/ml	10 ml	N1; N5; N10	12484	29.01.2008
Primobol	soluţie injectabilă	100 mg/ml	2 ml	N1; N5; N10	12485	29.01.2008
Primobol	soluţie injectabilă	100 mg/ml	5 ml	N1; N5; N10	12486	29.01.2008
Provimed	comprimate	50 mg		N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	12220	10.12.2007
Rovastin	comprimate	20 mg		N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	11962	03.10.2007
Rovastin	comprimate	10 mg		N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	11961	03.10.2007
Strombafort	comprimate	10 mg		N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	11963	03.10.2007
Strombafort	comprimate	50 mg		N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	11964	03.10.2007
Strombaject aqua	suspensie injectabilă	50 mg/ml	5 ml	N1	13760	06.02.2009
Strombaject aqua	suspensie injectabilă	50 mg/ml	2 ml	N5	13759	06.02.2009
Strombaject aqua	suspensie injectabilă	50 mg/ml	1 ml	N5	13758	06.02.2009
Sustamed	soluţie injectabilă uleioasă	125 mg/ml	1 ml; 2 ml; 5 ml; 10	N1; N5; N10	11675	26.06.2007
Sustamed	soluţie injectabilă uleioasă	250 mg/ml	1 ml; 2 ml; 5 ml; 10	N1; N5; N10	11676	26.06.2007
Tamoximed	comprimate	10 mg		N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	12221	10.12.2007
Tamoximed	comprimate	20 mg		N10; N10x2; N10x3; N20; N20x2; N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	12222	10.12.2007
Testosteronă-C	soluţie injectabilă uleioasă	100 mg/ml	1 ml; 2 ml; 5 ml; 10	N1; N5; N10	11677	26.06.2007
Testosteronă-C	soluţie injectabilă uleioasă	200 mg/ml	1 ml; 2 ml; 5 ml; 10	N1; N5; N10	11678	26.06.2007
Testosteronă-E	soluţie injectabilă uleioasă	100 mg/ml	1 ml; 2 ml; 5 ml; 10	N1; N5; N10	11679	26.06.2007
Testosteronă-E	soluţie injectabilă uleioasă	200 mg/ml	1 ml; 2 ml; 5 ml; 10	N1; N5; N10	11680	26.06.2007
Testosteronă-E	soluţie injectabilă	250 mg/ml	1 ml; 2 ml; 5 ml; 10	N1; N5; N10	12344	25.12.2007
Testosteronă-P	soluţie injectabilă uleioasă	100 mg/ml	1 ml; 2 ml; 5 ml; 10	N1; N5; N10	11681	26.06.2007
Testosteronă-P	soluţie injectabilă uleioasă	200 mg/ml	1 ml; 2 ml; 5 ml; 10	N1; N5; N10	11682	26.06.2007
Turanabol	comprimate	10 mg		N20x3; N5; N15; N25; N50; N100; N500	13624	24.12.2008


----------



## Grozny (May 14, 2011)

Himik said:


> BP is not HG, it's offshore registered UGL.
> 
> I would also like to know why on earth would DEA care about their THAI FDA documents. Here is the definition of DEA:
> 
> ...



lol ... no need to argue any more


----------



## Himik (May 14, 2011)

Grozny said:


> lol ... no need to argue any more




Lol... That is why i said they are REGISTERED OFFSHORE company, l2r. The actual manufacturing is done in Ukraine. Moldova is a mess, trust me I've been there. I have not seen their products in Ukraine's or Moldova's pharmacies. You can however purchase Farmak in pharmacies all over Ukraine.


----------



## ROID (May 14, 2011)

euroking said:


> Good luck making a video like this you can easily see how genshi blisters looks like and how the tabs looks like you can see its same
> 
> and i dont know who said all UGL production is in basement
> 
> ...



Do you intentionally make shitty gear or is it hard to produce a consistent product on such a large scale ?

I would just buy all that counterfeit HG that all the other sponsors sell ?

Why waste your time making anything ?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole black market steroid dealing thing all together.

I'm a very ignorant individual so.....


----------



## Himik (May 14, 2011)

Grozny said:


> lol ... no need to argue any more



And you still haven't answered my question as to why DEA would care about company's Thai FDA papers.


----------



## GH Consigliere (May 14, 2011)

Surprise heavy didn't lock this yet


----------



## ROID (May 14, 2011)

Chino0823 said:


> Surprise heavy didn't lock this yet



It wouldn't be politically correct to lock this thread


----------



## World-Pharma.org (May 14, 2011)

Dear EuroKing, go to Thailand,go to any Thailand Pharmacy and ask for Asia Pharma and ask there about AP.

You talk like a kid..really..be smart first and then talk.

AP is THAI FDA approved and end..ok..do research first and then talk...PLEASE!

best-regards

Wp


----------



## Lordsks (May 14, 2011)

Grozny said:


> fake video its pretty great business ethics, to scam their clients calming their video are the ones presented on their website its probably means the brand is good and respects its customers ?




Wow, imagine this another post from Grozny talking shit about EK. It gets old really.


----------



## Himik (May 14, 2011)

Even though i personally had a negative experience with EK, I still believe that he sells quality gear.


----------



## Grozny (May 15, 2011)

Asia Pharma is clearly a registered company. Balkan holds registration too, now that fameus FDA standards vary between countries, and some have much more latitude (and less oversight) than others and that's all.


----------



## Grozny (May 15, 2011)

Lordsks said:


> Wow, imagine this another post from Grozny talking shit about EK. It gets old really.



as u can see like many others here on this board we dont like to be treated as idiots we can clarly see that this video is fake and don't get me wrong, i don't know about this lab but vid is 100% fake.


----------



## scwarzenegger (May 15, 2011)

scwarzenegger said:


> Well so far I think Genshi is legit. They have professional made products, and Im right now testing their test e, so far so good. But if the video is true is maybe another story!?


 I will try to back this up with an independent labtest. Im doing a research now who can do this test, which isnt an easy task in this country with heavy regulations for this illegal substance. Ill be back with more info.


----------



## srbijadotokija (May 15, 2011)

http://genshilabs.com/page/production.html

This obviously fake video, company said they are GMP in japan?
They claim on web:

--We believe GenShi Innovations earned to be listed in one of the 10 best UG Labs in the world.--

But in video they cGMP standard. So what now UG or GMP? Maybe even they don't know what they are?

Genshi is typical UG setup. Chinese cheap powders, UG production in Moldova, illegally exported to Turkey.


----------



## srbijadotokija (May 15, 2011)

Himik said:


> And you still haven't answered my question as to why DEA would care about company's Thai FDA papers.




DEA don't give a fuck about any papers from any country but only USA.

Only difference is when buying pharmaceuticals overseas via mail for personal use it is better for you Human grade products that are somewhere recognized and controlled by "government agency for drugs and food" over UG that is "trusted source" on message boards that paid off mods with few vials and maybe 300$.

Axio is typical example. When he had capital, he paid off people on boards to make good reviews on his brad, when he went down everybody said quality is shit.

Some of you thing overseas (not US) FDA/drug agencies means nothing, but it is still much more than any rep on any board that is just financially motivated and don't give a fuck about quality.

Euroking sells some quality products that he buys locally in pharmacy ( anapolone, primo, sus..) those are NOT USA FDA products but Turkey FDA approved BTW. They rest products on his list are typical UG crap.


----------



## euroking (May 15, 2011)

Cant you answer my questions?

If they are so much approved so where is the information about them?

they should have a office right? 

ore they do not have it because its not safe even when they are FDA approved?



World-Pharma.org said:


> Dear EuroKing, go to Thailand,go to any Thailand Pharmacy and ask for Asia Pharma and ask there about AP.
> 
> You talk like a kid..really..be smart first and then talk.
> 
> ...


----------



## Justinbro (May 15, 2011)

My experience is any company can go up and down in quality. Just like any brand of product that starts off making a name for itself with good quality and then switches materials to make more profit. So they only way to know is do the lab testing yourself like some people have already and go by current user reviews. The only thing guaranteed in life is death and taxes.


----------



## srbijadotokija (May 16, 2011)

euroking said:


> Cant you answer my questions?
> 
> If they are so much approved so where is the information about them?
> 
> ...




Their products are listed on Thailand fda web and everybody can check it, you have all info on their official web.


----------



## JCBourne (May 16, 2011)

*Here's the bottom line...*

If you are caught within the US with ANY out of country gear without proper documents (From a doctor) you are going to get busted, weather it be WP gear, EK gear or some shit your sisters brothers dog made, and even so since I don't know the rules about ordering out of country you may even get screwed with proper papers if its not a lab your insurance will cover, I.E. ordering cause its cheaper then what your insurance will pay. The DEA does not give a shit what a company markets it as, if you do NOT have proper paperwork and are caught with any sort of gear you WILL get in trouble. 

Thai FDA does not mean SHIT in the US. Zero, zip, nothing. I want to make that very clear for the guys who think this will save you from getting charges against you.

Don't think that buying a certain sponsors gear because of how its marketed is going to save your ass from the 5-0. They will only laugh how stupid you are...

Are there better sponsors then others here? Oh yeah. Are some top gear and some meh? Of course!

Be smart, be safe and check your sources carefully, if you follow all these steps your chances of getting busted or getting dirty gear will GREATLY drop.


----------



## Grozny (May 16, 2011)

euroking said:


> Cant you answer my questions?
> 
> If they are so much approved so where is the information about them?
> 
> ...



The only thing we know of Asia Pharma is they are registered and have provided ample proof of such. I have never seen any proof that they either have dirty products, are not legitimate, or are not conducting business fairly. 

IMO if anyone has proof, please provide it and we will make it available to the community. Otherwise, we cannot tolerate comments like this about any company.


----------



## Himik (May 16, 2011)

Grozny said:


> The only thing we know of Asia Pharma is they are registered and have provided ample proof of such. I have never seen any proof that they either have dirty products, are not legitimate, or are not conducting business fairly.
> 
> IMO if anyone has proof, please provide it and we will make it available to the community. Otherwise, we cannot tolerate comments like this about any company.



Well, then you can't comment on Gen Shi videos either since you don't have proof of those videos being fake.


----------



## heavyiron (May 16, 2011)

Himik said:


> Well, then you can't comment on Gen Shi videos either since you don't have proof of those videos being fake.


 I have seen a few production videos and you almost always see the final product in labeled containers. Ever watch a beer production video? When I have they show a few hundred bottles of Coors rolling off the assembly line with labels and then some guy cracks one open and pounds it down. Just seems weird someone would make a vid with zero labeled product and then photoshop their logo on the video instead. It could be real but very strange way to promote a product line. LOL!


----------



## Himik (May 16, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> I have seen a few production videos and you almost always see the final product in labeled containers. Ever watch a beer production video? When I have they show a few hundred bottles of Coors rolling off the assembly line with labels and then some guy cracks one open and pounds it down. Just seems weird someone would make a vid with zero labeled product and then photoshop their logo on the video instead. It could be real but very strange way to promote a product line. LOL!




I completely agree with you Iron, but the burden of proof still lies on the accuser.


----------



## heavyiron (May 16, 2011)

Himik said:


> I completely agree with you Iron, but the burden of proof still lies on the accuser.


 This isn't a court of law just common sense brother.


----------



## Himik (May 16, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> This isn't a court of law just common sense brother.



You are right this is not, however my original post was in response to this statement by grozny:
*IMO if anyone has proof, please provide it and we will make it available  to the community. Otherwise, we cannot tolerate comments like this  about any company.*


----------



## M-Rods (May 16, 2011)

*NEXT WEEK ON*​ 
*SPONSER WARS!!!!!*​ 
*IRONMAGLABS*
*VS.*
*NTBM*​ 
*5 *
*5 MINUTE ROUNDS*​ 
*OF*​ 
*'My superdrol is badder ass than your superdrol"*​ 

*Tickets SOLD OUT!!!!*
*available on PPV*​


----------



## Imosted (May 16, 2011)

M-Rods said:


> *NEXT WEEK ON*​
> *SPONSER WARS!!!!!*​
> *IRONMAGLABS*
> *VS.*
> ...


----------



## Grozny (May 17, 2011)

Himik said:


> You are right this is not, however my original post was in response to this statement by grozny:
> *IMO if anyone has proof, please provide it and we will make it available  to the community. Otherwise, we cannot tolerate comments like this  about any company.*



come on mate no need to be Einsten to see that this vid is completely fake and on the other side u have a full registered company like AP who can provide the required information about all licenses like FDA THAI drug legislation.


----------



## OJD (May 17, 2011)

M-Rods said:


> *NEXT WEEK ON*​
> *SPONSER WARS!!!!!*​
> *IRONMAGLABS*
> *VS.*
> ...




and ntbm will win every time


----------



## OJD (May 17, 2011)

ROID said:


> Do you intentionally make shitty gear or is it hard to produce a consistent product on such a large scale ?
> 
> I would just buy all that counterfeit HG that all the other sponsors sell ?
> 
> ...



lmfao!!!!! you just owned ek. there gear is shitty for real so underdosed


----------



## Himik (May 17, 2011)

Grozny said:


> come on mate no need to be Einsten to see that this vid is completely fake and on the other side u have a full registered company like *AP who can* *provide the required information about all licenses like FDA THAI drug legislation*.



Not saying AP is not HG, but TBH, I don't know anyone who did see those.


----------



## Acee (May 17, 2011)

SFW said:


> So how many of you have used ugls? ( all of you )
> 
> How many of you have had serious infections or abscesses as a result of using ugls? ( im sure none of you )
> 
> ...



I must agree here, how much UGL gear is used on a daily basis without problems.

OK so occasionally you hear about something going bad but I cannot remember a major scare about dangerous gear going around. Bunk stuff, fake maybe but outright dangerous that will give you ulcers nearly every time!

I wish we all had access to top quality cheap regulated and approved gear but it's never going to happen.

I cross the road a lot, so do other people, never been ran over yet but I know it happens!

I'll just keep taking my chances, years ago I used to inject gear with Veterinary Use Only written on it, I'm ok but I do Moo occasionally


----------



## M-Rods (May 17, 2011)

Acee said:


> I must agree here, how much UGL gear is used on a daily basis without problems.
> 
> OK so occasionally you hear about something going bad but I cannot remember a major scare about dangerous gear going around. Bunk stuff, fake maybe but outright dangerous that will give you ulcers nearly every time!
> 
> ...


 
lol


----------



## damage (May 17, 2011)

OJD said:


> lmfao!!!!! you just owned ek. there gear is shitty for real so underdosed



This is inappropriate........I have not seen proof that EK gear is "shitty or underdosed". They have been a few complaints but generally their gear is considered g2g. Lets be civil, no need to start throwing around unsubstantiated accusations. Thats juvenile.


----------



## srbijadotokija (May 18, 2011)

damage said:


> This is inappropriate........I have not seen proof that EK gear is "shitty or underdosed". They have been a few complaints but generally their gear is considered g2g. Lets be civil, no need to start throwing around unsubstantiated accusations. Thats juvenile.




You are mixing producers and suppliers.
WP has nothing to do with AP, BD or other products he is selling, he simply is supplier. Tons fo other webs that has nothing to do with WP are selling same  brands.

We don't complain over Anapolone quality to EK? Anapolone is HG registered in Turkey and available to wholesalers there who supply pharmacies and EK buy there, same as WP and tons of other suppliers does.

EK gear can not be shitty or under dosed, however UG brands he is pushing can and probably are, but that is not EKs problem. He is simply buying UG from UG directly, pays off customs in Turkey to get them in and sends form there.

EK at least still offers various products including HG he buys in pharmacies in Turkey and that are 100% legit and registered at Turkey FDA. That is excellent quality.
Many suppliers that live in countries where you can buy legit HG products OTC, like Turkey, Thailnad, Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Mexico...
 stopped selling HG, because they simply have more profit with selling UGL
and they just don't care what quality they deliver to customers.
They are promoting as super quality UGL and super deal just because they buy them cheapest.

There is no quality UGL brand because if they want to attract dealers, they must come out with as low prices are possible, and to offer low price UGL production expenses must be cut to minimum.


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## World-Pharma.org (May 18, 2011)

I am only online licensed pharmacy shop that sale all human and gmp made products and brands!


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## Himik (May 18, 2011)

World-Pharma.org said:


> I am only online licensed pharmacy shop that sale all human and gmp made products and brands!



I was always curious, what country's agency are you licensed by?


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## World-Pharma.org (May 18, 2011)

Dear Himik,
you think i am so stupid to post my company personal info to open forum,site,etc..
its only for government if they will come and ask. they will got it all info.

best-regards

wp


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## Himik (May 19, 2011)

World-Pharma.org said:


> Dear Himik,
> you think i am so stupid to post my company personal info to open forum,site,etc..
> its only for government if they will come and ask. they will got it all info.
> 
> ...



I wasn't asking for the info, i was asking what agency you were licensed by, not the pic of the license or the number. Chill out.


----------



## ROID (May 19, 2011)

Grozny said:


> come on *mate* no need to be Einsten to see that this vid is completely fake and on the other side u have a full registered company like AP who can provide the required information about all licenses like FDA THAI drug legislation.



grozny is from down 

For a while i thought WP=grozny

However, HI=Fonz, I'm sure of it.

Prince= Ross Perot

Roid= Bill O'Reilly


----------



## boostinggtir (May 20, 2011)

Dose anyone know what HG brands EK offers?


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## boostinggtir (May 20, 2011)

Does anyone know what are the HG products EK offers?


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## World-Pharma.org (May 20, 2011)

Dear *ROID, sorry i dont have anything to do with member grozny!
But i see he know what he is talking. We can be happy to have members like grozny here.

best-regards

wp

*


----------



## Grozny (May 21, 2011)

ROID said:


> grozny is from down
> 
> For a while i thought WP=grozny
> 
> ...



WP=Grozny  pretty incompatible version but Roid= Bill O'Reilly  sounds good


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## Spades (May 21, 2011)

ummmmm wtf


----------



## ROID (May 21, 2011)

World-Pharma.org said:


> Dear *ROID, sorry i dont have anything to do with member grozny!
> But i see he know what he is talking. We can be happy to have members like grozny here.
> 
> best-regards
> ...



I'm just being silly.

This thread is a dead horse.


----------



## Grozny (May 22, 2011)

ROID said:


> I'm just being silly.
> 
> This thread is a dead horse.


----------



## JCBourne (May 22, 2011)

Himik said:


> I wasn't asking for the info, i was asking what agency you were licensed by, not the pic of the license or the number. Chill out.



WP, answer? Let this guy know so he can believe.


----------



## World-Pharma.org (Aug 21, 2011)

Big bump for great thread by Heavyiron! Thanks again


----------



## pieguy (Aug 21, 2011)

The puss and blood in those abscess pictures makes me wanna vomit...


----------



## sofargone561 (Aug 21, 2011)

Not cool!


----------



## wilgates (Aug 21, 2011)

wtf!!!


----------



## TriumphTt600 (Aug 22, 2011)

Very good info


----------



## TriumphTt600 (Aug 22, 2011)

Was that a fucking fly in the pic


----------



## Big Pimpin (Aug 22, 2011)

World-Pharma.org said:


> Big bump for great thread by Heavyiron! Thanks again


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## World-Pharma.org (Aug 22, 2011)

this article and video tell you a lot what is safe for inject and what not. we all have 1 life.


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## Noheawaiian (Aug 22, 2011)

I smell something


----------



## Big Pimpin (Aug 23, 2011)

Noheawaiian said:


> I smell something


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## World-Pharma.org (Sep 20, 2011)

Big bump for great post again!


----------



## World-Pharma.org (Dec 5, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> ...





This article is so good that all newbies need to read!


----------



## OldSchoolLifter (Dec 5, 2011)

World-Pharma.org said:


> This article is so good that all newbies need to read!




Even though your a sponsor, bumping up an old thread that Heavy Started when he was helping you, and you continue to try and use his name to your gain, your not fooling anyone. I believe you deserve an infraction. But im not going to be the ass that does it. 

All sponsors should be respected, but the way you go about your business its starting to get really freaking tiring. 

Im not saying another word on this subject or disgrace of this video.


----------



## World-Pharma.org (Dec 5, 2011)

what is wrong with that article..its great so where is problem.?

why then heavy post it if its not good?


----------



## justhav2p (Dec 5, 2011)

World-Pharma.org said:


> Dear Himik,
> you think i am so stupid to post my company personal info to open forum,site,etc..
> its only for government if they will come and ask. they will got it all info.
> 
> ...


 

^And I'm a Vagina Doctor. 

Oldschool hit the nail in your head. I personally think your a greedy fuck. You talk about having the only HG gear, but instead of getting it to the public to use your "safe HG Gear", you charge quadruple what you should.


----------



## Noheawaiian (Dec 5, 2011)

That's why I stick with HG gear from my friend in the UKA


----------



## Jetto (Dec 5, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> Yeah that would be terrible Trap.  I know AP and BD both use Arachis oil in their products.  Have you tried to use Test suspension or Water based Winny?



First time I've heard this.
Seems like an unnecessarily stupid idea. There's no reason to use peanut oil in AAS.

Damn that lab is nasty, I'm glad to be slightly ocd and a germ phob. I sterilize my whole room with bleach and then rubbing alcohol. Usually takes me about 2 hrs to prep the room each time but it's worth it. I also wear a hair net and face mask and of course gloves with a long sleeve tight fitting shirt. for bottling i cool the room to 65* and go from there.


----------



## .V. (Dec 5, 2011)

Here's a thought.  Whatmans are cheap.  Get a 45 micron and a 22 micron ... or serveral of each... and no matter who you get your gear from, you know it's sterile because you made it that way yourself.

Then no worries.


----------



## TGB1987 (Dec 5, 2011)

Jetto said:


> First time I've heard this.
> Seems like an unnecessarily stupid idea. There's no reason to use peanut oil in AAS.
> 
> Damn that lab is nasty, I'm glad to be slightly ocd and a germ phob. I sterilize my whole room with bleach and then rubbing alcohol. Usually takes me about 2 hrs to Aprep the room each time but it's worth it. I also wear a hair net and face mask and of course gloves with a long sleeve tight fitting shirt. for bottling i cool the room to 65* and go from there.


 

Obviously it is not your standard peanut oil.   This is pharmaceutical grade oil.  Many different oils can be used and there are different reasons why some are better than others for different applications.  Arachis oil is used as a solvent for many pharmaceuticals. Here is a list of some other oils and uses.

*1. *an unctuous, combustible substance that is liquid, or easily liquefiable, on warming, and is soluble in ether but not in water. Oils may be animal, vegetable, or mineral in origin, and volatile or nonvolatile (fixed). A number of oils are used as flavoring or perfuming agents in pharmaceutical preparations.
*2. *a fat that is liquid at room temperature.
*borage oil* that extracted from the seeds of borage; used for the treatment of neurodermatitis and as a food supplement.
*cajeput oil* a volatile oil from the fresh leaves and twigs of cajeput; used as a stimulant and rubefacient in rheumatism and other muscle and joint pain.
*canola oil* rapeseed oil, specifically that prepared from rapeseed plants bred to be low in erucic acid.
*castor oil* a fixed oil obtained from the seed of _Ricinus communis;_ used as a bland topical emollient and also occasionally as a strong cathartic.
*clove oil* a volatile oil from cloves; used externally in the treatment of colds and headache and as a dental antiseptic and analgesic; it also has various uses in Indian medicine.
*cod liver oil* partially destearinated, fixed oil from fresh livers of _Gadus morrhua_ and other fish of the family Gadidae; used as a source of vitamins A and D.
*corn oil* a refined fixed oil obtained from the embryo of _Zea mays;_ used as a solvent and vehicle for various medicinal agents and as a vehicle for injections. It has also been promoted as a source of polyunsaturated fatty acids in special diets.
*cottonseed oil* a fixed oil from seeds of cultivated varieties of the cotton plant _(Gossypium)_ ; used as a solvent and vehicle for drugs.
*essential oil* volatile o.
*ethiodized oil* an iodine addition product of the ethyl ester of fatty acids of poppyseed oil; used as a diagnostic radiopaque medium.
*eucalyptus oil* a volatile oil from the fresh leaf of species of _Eucalyptus;_ used as a pharmaceutical flavoring agent, as an expectorant and local antiseptic, for rheumatism, and in folk medicine.
*evening primrose oil* that produced from the ripe seeds of evening primrose_(Oenothera biennis)_ ; used in the treatment of mastalgia, premenstrual syndrome, and atopic eczema.
*expressed oil* , *fatty oil*, *fixed oil* a nonvolatile oil, i.e., one that does not evaporate on warming; such oils consist of a mixture of fatty acids and their esters, and are classified as solid, semisolid, and liquid, or as drying, semidrying, and nondrying as a function of their tendency to solidify on exposure to air.
*fennel oil* a volatile oil distilled from fennel (the seeds of _Foeniculum vulgare_ ); used for cough, bronchitis, and dyspepsia and as a pharmaceutical flavoring agent.
*iodized oil* an iodine addition product of vegetable oil; used as a diagnostic radiopaque medium.
*lavender oil* a volatile oil distilled from the flowering tops of lavender or prepared synthetically; used for loss of appetite, dyspepsia, nervousness, and insomnia; also widely used in folk medicine.
*mineral oil* a mixture of liquid hydrocarbons from petroleum; used as a lubricant laxative, drug vehicle, and skin emollient and cleanser. _Light mineral o.,_ of lesser density, is used similarly.
*olive oil* a fixed oil obtained from ripe fruit of _Olea europaea;_ used as a setting retardant for dental cements, topical emollient, pharmaceutic necessity, and sometimes as a laxative.
*peanut oil* the refined fixed oil from peanuts _(Arachis hypogaea);_ used as a solvent and vehicle for drugs.
*peppermint oil* a volatile oil from fresh overground parts of the flowering plant of peppermint _(Mentha piperita);_ used as a flavoring agent for drugs, and as a gastric stimulant and carminative.
*rapeseed oil* the oil expressed from the seeds of the rapeseed plant; used in the manufacture of soaps, margarines, and lubricants. See also _canola o._ 
*safflower oil* an oily liquid extracted from the seeds of the safflower, _Carthamus tinctorius,_ containing predominantly linoleic acid; used as a pharmaceutic aid, a component of total parenteral nutrition solutions, and in the management of hypercholesterolemia.
*silicone oil* any of various long-chain fluid silicone polymers, some of which are injected into the vitreous to serve as a vitreous substitute during or after vitreoretinal surgery.
*tea tree oil* an essential oil from the leaves and branch tips of tea tree, having bacteriostatic and weak antiviral and antimycotic properties, used topically for skin infections and used internally and externally in folk medicine for various indications.
*thyme oil* the volatile oil extracted from fresh, flowering thyme; used as an antitussive and expectorant.
*volatile oil* one that evaporates readily, usually found in aromatic plants; most are a mixture of two or more terpenes.
*volatile oil of mustard* a volatile oil distilled from the seeds of black mustard_(Brassica nigra);_ used as a strong counterirritant and rubefacient.


Dorland's Medical Dictionary for Health Consumers. © 2007 by Saunders, an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved.
*peanut oil* [pe´nut] 
*a refined fixed oil from seed kernels of cultivated varieties of Arachis hypogaea; used as a solvent for drugs.*
Miller-Keane Encyclopedia and Dictionary of Medicine, Nursing, and Allied Health, Seventh Edition. © 2003 by Saunders, an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. 
*peanut meal* residue after the extraction of peanut oil; a high protein (40 to 50%) feed supplement; low in methionine, lysine and tryptophan. May be mixed with hulls when it becomes of less value because of the high (30%) of fiber.

*peanut oil* a refined fixed oil extracted from peanuts; used as a solvent for drugs.


----------



## Vibrant (Dec 5, 2011)

TGB1987 said:


> Obviously it is not your standard peanut oil.   This is pharmaceutical grade oil.  Many different oils can be used and there are different reasons why some are better than others for different applications.  Arachis oil is used as a solvent for many pharmaceuticals. Here is a list of some other oils and uses.
> 
> *1. *an unctuous, combustible substance that is liquid, or easily liquefiable, on warming, and is soluble in ether but not in water. Oils may be animal, vegetable, or mineral in origin, and volatile or nonvolatile (fixed). A number of oils are used as flavoring or perfuming agents in pharmaceutical preparations.
> *2. *a fat that is liquid at room temperature.
> ...



good info


----------



## lambofgod (Dec 6, 2011)

exactly right what was said a few posts up. watman filters are cheap as chips. buy urself some sterile vials and filter the UG stuff into a new vial.

what about these gmp HG brands being faked? theres a few threads on other forums about fake Norma and Schering/Bayer


----------



## World-Pharma.org (Dec 6, 2011)

some sources even sale HG as replica...so its fake..


----------



## Noheawaiian (Dec 6, 2011)

^^^^that's why it is risky to buy ANY well known HG gear online (testoviron/norma/etc.) 
Thank goodness my friends in the "UK" have legit stuff


----------



## 85metal (Dec 6, 2011)

I hate this video lol makes me cringe every time


----------



## vicious 13 (Dec 18, 2011)

scary


----------



## OldSchoolLifter (Dec 18, 2011)

World-Pharma.org said:


> some sources even sale HG as replica...so its fake..




Replica doesn't mean Fake, it still has hormone in it, its just replicated by a UGL.


----------



## Vibrant (Dec 18, 2011)

World-Pharma.org said:


> some sources even sale HG as replica...so its fake..



usually you can spot a fake amp pretty easily. sometimes its more expensive to fake hg amps than actually sell the real thing.


----------



## Noheawaiian (Dec 18, 2011)

^^^^it would've been expensive as hell to fake those testoviron amps from our boy


----------



## WallsOfJericho (Dec 18, 2011)

surely most of those images are from improper injection technique, noswabbing, possibly using same needle more than once etc.


----------



## inkd (Dec 20, 2011)

Great read-glad I have never been there!


----------



## KingLouie (Dec 20, 2011)

Stay safe and filter your stuff!  Better safe than sorry.


----------



## World-Pharma.org (Sep 5, 2012)

bump for great post..we all need to read i again


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 5, 2012)

is it weird that the video made me hungry?


----------



## heavyiron (Sep 5, 2012)

Hahaha, I should get a commission....


----------



## World-Pharma.org (Sep 5, 2012)

Standard Donkey said:


> is it weird that the video made me hungry?



for me video total scared!


----------



## teezhay (Sep 5, 2012)

World-Pharma.org said:


> for me video total scared!



No it didn't, and stop patronizing the community. If you gave an iota of a fuck about the safety of the guys on here you wouldn't be marking your shit up 5x what it's worth. Your little "We're just looking out for the bros" act is almost as retarded as some overpriced restaurant claiming they're helping to ameliorate world hunger. "We're so alarmed by the idea of these poor people starving that we decided to make food for them...I mean they can't afford it, but if they could it'd really help 'em out! Gosh we're good people." 

Fucking laughable.


----------



## Intense (Sep 5, 2012)

Good read heavy


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 5, 2012)

teezhay said:


> no it didn't, and stop patronizing the community. If you gave an iota of a fuck about the safety of the guys on here you wouldn't be marking your shit up 5x what it's worth. Your little "we're just looking out for the bros" act is almost as retarded as some overpriced restaurant claiming they're helping to ameliorate world hunger. "we're so alarmed by the idea of these poor people starving that we decided to make food for them...i mean they can't afford it, but if they could it'd really help 'em out! Gosh we're good people."
> 
> fucking laughable.





haha shit!


----------



## World-Pharma.org (Sep 5, 2012)

CalebRM said:


> Good read heavy



big true,be smart be safe!


----------



## teezhay (Sep 6, 2012)

World-Pharma.org said:


> big true,be smart be safe!



Reality check: Paying $20 for an amp of sustanon is stupid, not smart. And "safe" is seeing a doctor. This nigga ain't giving that advice, though, because "be safe" actually means "please distract yourself with these scary images, while I bend you over and buttrape your bank account."

BTW, you actually should give Heavy a commission if you're going to deliberately ride the coattails of his credibility by incessantly dropping his name, despite neglecting to mention that he posted this shit when he was helping you 16 months ago, and that "help" has since ceased. Unless that situation has changed since OSL posted this nice little gem:



OldSchoolLifter said:


> Even though your a sponsor, bumping up an old thread that Heavy Started when he was helping you, and you continue to try and use his name to your gain, your not fooling anyone. I believe you deserve an infraction. But im not going to be the ass that does it.
> 
> All sponsors should be respected, but the way you go about your business its starting to get really freaking tiring.


----------



## Grozny (Sep 6, 2012)

another super old thread  some one like it anally again and again ...


----------



## theCaptn' (Sep 6, 2012)

Grozny said:


> another super old thread  some one like it anally again and again ...



Lol true. But when both side wont let it go ...


----------



## independent (Sep 6, 2012)

World-Pharma.org said:


> for me video total scared!



me total scared to.


----------



## RickyTicky (Sep 6, 2012)

my exp recently...watson test E was amazing but the Z's test C I felt like death!  crazy but true


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 6, 2012)

teezhay said:


> Reality check: Paying $20 for an amp of sustanon is stupid, not smart. And "safe" is seeing a doctor. This nigga ain't giving that advice, though, because "be safe" actually means "please distract yourself with these scary images, while I bend you over and buttrape your bank account."
> 
> BTW, you actually should give Heavy a commission if you're going to deliberately ride the coattails of his credibility by incessantly dropping his name, despite neglecting to mention that he posted this shit when he was helping you 16 months ago, and that "help" has since ceased. Unless that situation has changed since OSL posted this nice little gem:




lol teezhay is on a roll

ive personally used at least 4 ugls.. no issues


----------



## ctr10 (Sep 6, 2012)

Pretty soon SD will be a UGL


----------



## Standard Donkey (Sep 6, 2012)

ctr10 said:


> Pretty soon SD will be a UGL




my body is a walking ugl


----------



## Goodskie (Sep 6, 2012)

I still have some lucky 7 and it's gtg

Serious


----------



## gm09 (Sep 8, 2012)




----------

