# Why take nolvadex????



## OJD (May 17, 2011)

I know this opens up a can of worms for some people, but I'm going to get it out one more time. 

There is no reason to take Nolvadex other than to treat gyno. THE END. 

It DOES NOT restore the HPTA. I repeat, it DOES NOT restore HPTA. 

Maybe you didn't read that right. IT DOES NOT RESTORE THE HPTA.

I know the typical answers. Let's address them. 

"It's what everyone does." 

Yeah, well a lot of people do lots of stupid shit. Next. 


" If it doesn't work why is it always recommended." 

Good point. It's always recommended because it was the first form of PCT -- discovered by Dan Duchaine who realized that an anti breast tumore medication can prevent gyno. He was right. he also admitted it was a shitty drug with lots of negative side effects. But back then, deca and dbol was the most popular stack and gyno was pretty prevalent. This morphed into people thinking it was an essential part of PCT. 

"It works for me!" 

Are you sure? Most people THINK something worked because they didn;t get the feared side effects. It's like THINKING a homeopathic medicine helped if you didn't get the flu. NO. You just didn't get a flu. The homeopathic shit did nothing. Maybe...MAYBE, if your estrogen is low, it'll help Libido since it adds estrogen. (People mistakenly think estrogen is HIGH after a cycle, but that's not necessarily the case). More often than not, it destroys Libido. 

And by the way, since Clomid is almost an exact strucural clone of nolva, the same principals can be applied. 

And the ever popular...

"Here's a study." 

Most people don't know how to read studies, otherwise they'd see how flawed they are. They do however love to POST them. There is not a single case where testosterone was elevated and stayed elevated so please DO NOT post studies because they WILL NOT show that and I'm not in the mood to explain it for the hundredth time.

Look, I don't just buy products and tell people not to use proper medication when needed. I'm not an asshole. The products were designed specifically to help the body restore the HPTA. Just because something is a medicine doesn't make it more legit - especially since it is not a medicine to help suppressed HPTA's. It's an anti breast cancer medicine. 

Now, it doesn't make me one single cent whether you use Nolvadex or not. If you like it, fine. You should still use the supps because they'll only help. I'm just seeing a lot of noobs lately that sound like their knowledge is from 1990 literature. 

Change comes slowly. 

End of rant. It just really gets to me when I see people misinformed and other misinformed people giving more misinformation. Nolvadex sucks and is unnecessary. No one who has done a proper PCT without it ever says they'd go back to using nolva. It really just sucks.


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## alphabolic (May 17, 2011)

i dont disagree with you but what kind of PCT do you run?

i'll be using clomid and aromasin for mine.


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## minimal (May 17, 2011)

clomid and aromasin fo sho!


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## OJD (May 17, 2011)

alphabolic said:


> i dont disagree with you but what kind of PCT do you run?
> 
> i'll be using clomid and aromasin for mine.



i run nathan chase pct. 

unleashed/post cycle combo
hcgenerate 
forma stanzol

this is all you need and cover everything


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## ANIMALHAUS (May 17, 2011)

Well since Nolvadex is a brand name that I don't use, I LOVE Tamoxifen.


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## OJD (May 17, 2011)

ANIMALHOUSE said:


> Well since Nolvadex is a brand name that I don't use, I LOVE Tamoxifen.



if it works for you then go for it. but nolvadex tamoxifen same thing all it does is remove gyno. it does nothing to restore your hpta


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## BigBird (May 17, 2011)

So what you're saying is that Nolva is not necessary for pct?  j/k - yes that was a smart ass comment.  I only have Clomid for pct - when I actually decide to come off.  I may just cruise instead.  Arimidex and Proviron for on-cycle.  Proviron 50mg ED and Adex at 0.5mg E3D.


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## pyes (May 17, 2011)

nolva is the old school recovery drug....times change. Nolva also fukks with your igf and hgh lvls which is not ideal for recovery. 

I also noticed above that guys are running aromasin and clomid for pct....wtf? clomid acts as a mild AI....there is no reason to take aromasin in pct.....jmo.


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## BigBird (May 17, 2011)

Clomid for pct seems pretty standard these days.  Nolva has mainly been demoted as an emergency intervention at onset of gyno during cycle.


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## pyes (May 17, 2011)

^^^ correct....but only estrogen gyno....not prolactin or progesterone gyno.


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## ANIMALHAUS (May 17, 2011)

pyes said:


> ^^^ correct....but only estrogen gyno....not prolactin or progesterone gyno.


 
Very true.


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## TrenMasterFlex (May 17, 2011)

Here's what a good PCT should look like after cycle...
Cycle weeks 1-10 (pretend there's no long esters involved and PCT can begin imed.)
HCG weeks 4-14
Clomid weeks 11-14
Proviron weeks 1-14
Nolva (on hand) in case boobies become luscious and plump
Adex (on hand) just because I come prepared
That's just basic I'm not going to get into dosages and all that good stuff because most people have different preferences in that department.


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## pyes (May 17, 2011)

I think that is a bit off personally trenMaster.
HCG should be ran maybe 2 weeks into pct maximum (this is purely my opinion).
If no long esters are being used (prop) you can get away with a 3 week clomid pct. Proviron...not needed and is making things complicated. you nolva and adex protocal is reversed..
nolva...is emergency gyno attack....arimidex or aromasin is the maintenance ai.


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## pyes (May 17, 2011)

There seems to be a lot of confusion on when to start a pct and how long should the pct be.....here is a quick guide (compiled by myself) for those in nedd:

STEROID...............time after last shot............time to run clomid
Anadrol50/Anapolan50:..........8 - 12 hours.................... 3 weeks
Deca durabolan: ..................3 weeks.......................... 4 weeks 
Dianabol:............................4 - 8 hours...................... 3 weeks
Equipoise:...........................17 - 21 days.................... 3 weeks
Finajet/Trenbolone:................3 days.......................... 3 weeks
Primabolan depot:.................10 - 14 days................... 2 weeks
Sustanon:.............................12 days........................ 3 weeks
Testosterone Cypionate:........ 18 days......................... 3 weeks
Testosterone Enanthate/Testaviron:..2 weeks ................3 weeks
Testosterone Propionate:........3 days........................... 3 weeks
Testosterone Suspension:........4 - 8 hours.................. 2-3 weeks
Winstrol:...............................8 - 12 hours................ 2-3 weeks


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## nyf1nest (May 17, 2011)

Ive used nolva for many pcts, and well as clomid for pcts and either one worked just as well for me. Clomid always gets me all emotional I don't really like it, but just putting my 2 cents in both have worked perfectly fine for me.


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## TrenMasterFlex (May 17, 2011)

pyes said:


> I think that is a bit off personally trenMaster.
> HCG should be ran maybe 2 weeks into pct maximum (this is purely my opinion).
> If no long esters are being used (prop) you can get away with a 3 week clomid pct. Proviron...not needed and is making things complicated. you nolva and adex protocal is reversed..
> nolva...is emergency gyno attack....arimidex or aromasin is the maintenance ai.



For sure, I didn't mean it to sound like that with the Nolva and Adex. I always use Adex as my maintenance AI and only have Nolva on hand in case my boobies begin to plump up and get juicy. As far as the HCG goes, thank you for the information as this cycle will be my first go 'round using HCG so I wasn't really to sure on the protocol for that but I will more than likely take your advice and not use it more than 1 or 2 weeks into PCT. I always run Proviron though, me personally I've read studies on Proviron claiming to have zero suppression on the funtion of the HPTA system in humans so I like to use it because 1-it helps maintain sex drive during PCT and 2-it helps maintain gains and muscle hardness throughout PCT. I could be wrong and I could have read the studies wrong but until someone proves to me a negative affect of using this drug during PCT I will continue to do so because it produces positive results atleast in my personal experience. Here's the links.

The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum... [Int J Gynaecol Obstet. 1988] - PubMed result

Testosterone levels and gonadotrophins in Klinefel... [Arch Dermatol Res. 1977] - PubMed result


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## OJD (May 17, 2011)

pyes said:


> nolva is the old school recovery drug....times change. Nolva also fukks with your igf and hgh lvls which is not ideal for recovery.
> 
> I also noticed above that guys are running aromasin and clomid for pct....wtf? clomid acts as a mild AI....there is no reason to take aromasin in pct.....jmo.





thank you. finally some one with common sense


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## pyes (May 17, 2011)

I know heavy wrote an article on taking aromasin with pct...i have not read it yet so forgive me if i am missing something there.


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## BigBird (May 17, 2011)

pyes said:


> ^^^ correct....but only estrogen gyno....not prolactin or progesterone gyno.


 
Yes indeed, I should've spelled that out.  Thanks.


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## alphabolic (May 17, 2011)

pyes said:


> I also noticed above that guys are running aromasin and clomid for pct....wtf? clomid acts as a mild AI....there is no reason to take aromasin in pct.....jmo.


 
really wanna see TGB's response to this


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## GMO (May 17, 2011)

pyes said:


> nolva is the old school recovery drug....times change. Nolva also fukks with your igf and hgh lvls which is not ideal for recovery.
> 
> I also noticed above that guys are running aromasin and clomid for pct....wtf? clomid acts as a mild AI....there is no reason to take aromasin in pct.....jmo.


 

Because clomid only blocks estrogen from binding to its receptor.  This leaves a lot of estrogen circulating in your blood stream.  The Aromasin is used to dispose of this excess estrogen and prevent any rebounding effect.  Also, immediately after you discontinue test, your estro:test ratio is way off and can lead to many issues such as gyno, lethargy,  fat deposits, etc. Aromasin is used to eliminate this risk...


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## pyes (May 17, 2011)

all i am really hearing here is more reasons to take more shit that you may not even need in the first place.....lol  I have never ever used any ai in pct, I am gyno prone, and I have never ever had a rebound in or after pct. I also have never ever used hcg....my cycles are basic and they work. (this may just be an individual case). but i never needed any of that stuff. Half of you guys are not even as big as me and you are using twice the doses and twice the compunds that i do. And dont bring genetics into this...i am not ronnie coleman.....lol i am only 211lb @ 9 or 10 % bf currently.


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## GMO (May 17, 2011)

pyes said:


> all i am really hearing here is more reasons to take more shit that you may not even need in the first place.....lol I have never ever used any ai in pct, I am gyno prone, and I have never ever had a rebound in or after pct. I also have never ever used hcg....my cycles are basic and they work. (this may just be an individual case). but i never needed any of that stuff. Half of you guys are not even as big as me and you are using twice the doses and twice the compunds that i do. And dont bring genetics into this...i am not ronnie coleman.....lol i am only 211lb @ 9 or 10 % bf currently.


 

Everybody responds in different ways, bro.  I can't tell you how many people that have posted on this very board about getting gyno right after PCT.  It happens...maybe not to you, but trust me it happens.


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## pyes (May 17, 2011)

GMO...i understand what your saying...but i would much rather want to know if i even am prone to rebounding...i would much rather not use aromasin during pct...and if i do get rebounding....then i would counter it....and know to use it the next time around (rather then pump tons of drugs into my body)...jmo...i respect you opinion though..you have a ''better safe then sorry'' approach...i have a ''lets see what effects me individually'' approach. (^_^)


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## ANIMALHAUS (May 17, 2011)

GMO said:


> Everybody responds in different ways, bro. I can't tell you how many people that have posted on this very board about getting gyno right after PCT. It happens...maybe not to you, but trust me it happens.


 
And I can attest to about 100 of them! haha.


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## lifterjaydawg (May 17, 2011)

agreed that everyone is different, I like the old school clomid and pct, I want to give torem try, but I have kept the clomid and nolva because it has worked for me.


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## vannesb (May 17, 2011)

ANIMALHOUSE said:


> Well since Nolvadex is a brand name that I don't use, I LOVE Tamoxifen.



That is the same thing as nolvadex fyi


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## ANIMALHAUS (May 17, 2011)

vannesb said:


> That is the same thing as nolvadex fyi



It's a little thing called sarcasm, bro.  Lol.


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## mr. ya-di-da (May 17, 2011)

pyes said:


> nolva is the old school recovery drug....times change. Nolva also fukks with your igf and hgh lvls which is not ideal for recovery.
> 
> I also noticed above that guys are running aromasin and clomid for pct....wtf? clomid acts as a mild AI....there is no reason to take aromasin in pct.....jmo.


 

Cons: Heptatoxicity. Studies have shown it to lower IGF levels (I don't feel like citing, but it's _about_ 20% decrease...IMO no biggie).


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## OJD (May 17, 2011)

vannesb said:


> That is the same thing as nolvadex fyi


\

lol yeah


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## mr. ya-di-da (May 17, 2011)

OJD said:


> \
> 
> lol yeah


 

i dont know how to explain this in technical terms but yes it is the same thing being that tamoxifen citrate is the ingredient in both but pharm grade "nolvadex" has more done to it that makes it better and more on point then just tamoxifen citrate that is in research chemicals ... thats why its always a good idea to dose the research chem tamox slightly higher.


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## vannesb (May 17, 2011)

ANIMALHOUSE said:


> It's a little thing called sarcasm, bro.  Lol.



Sorry!  Long day man!!!!!


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## ANIMALHAUS (May 18, 2011)

vannesb said:


> Sorry! Long day man!!!!!


 
HAHA, no sweat.


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## Winny_ng 24/7 (May 18, 2011)

_"So which one should you use? Well personally, I'd have to say Nolvadex.  Both as an on-cycle anti-estrogen and a post-cycle therapy. As an  anti-estrogen its simply much stronger, demonstrated by the fact that  better results are obtained with 20-40 mg than with 100-150 mg of  Clomid. For post-cycle, this plays a key role as well. It deactivates  rebound estrogen much faster and more effective. But most importantly,  Nolvadex has a direct influence on bringing back natural testosterone,  where as Clomid may actually have a slight negative influence. The  reason being that tamoxifen (as in Nolvadex) seems to increase the  responsiveness of LH (luteinizing hormone) to GnRH (gonadtropin  releasing hormone), whereas Clomid seems to decrease the responsiveness a  bit1."
Nolvadex vs. Clomid for PCT | www.silownia.net

_This is just one of many articles that disagree with this thread.
To each his own. Not one PCT is for everyone. Research for yourselves bros!


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## NJRiot (May 18, 2011)

now i say to myself do i rip open my sciroxx nolva pack n use it for pct or not?
this thread has got my qustioning my pct cycle, thought i was doing the right thing ordering the nolva to come off my sciroxx test e cycle.   grrrrrr


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## NJRiot (May 18, 2011)

im taking arimidex eod ... front loaded 40mg dbol ed for 3 weeks (stoped 2 weeks ago) and on test e 250mg every 3 days ... only 5 weeks in and nipples are plumping already!  now thats gyno prone! nothing seems to help me.
im cursed.


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## pyes (May 20, 2011)

^^^ just because your nipples are getting puffy does not mean its gyno...it just mean you have symptoms. arimidex will easily take the puffiness away.....as far as the nolva....if that is all you have...use it for pct....but next time get clomid.


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## Roaddkingg (May 20, 2011)

*NJRiot*

I would tend to think it's the d-bol that has caused your nipples to plump up. 
I am very gyno prone myself but it seems if I stick to straight test and stay away from any orals I dont have a problem.
As soon as I get close to d-bol or drol after a few weeks my right nipple gets a lump under it.
In fact I have it right now and had no choice but to start nolvadex at 20mgs per day and todays day 8 and finally I'm seeing it come down a bit.
I also always take .05mgs arimadex mon, wed & fri on cycle.
We all love the orals either for a quick start or a boost in the middle or a little extra at the end but for me it seems like I'm just going to have to leave them alone.


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## IanM4208 (May 21, 2011)

I know there is alot goin on in this thread, but what's y'all opinion on torem?


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## colej (Jun 5, 2011)

i'm taking d -bol alone  right now for the second week in a 4 week supply, i have clomid for pct . do i need to be taking anything during my d bol cycle or just wait until my pct for the clomid. by the way everything is oral.


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## Max1988 (May 24, 2014)

pyes said:


> ^^^ correct....but only estrogen gyno....not prolactin or progesterone gyno.




your right with not taking nolva for prolactin , but with progesterone nolva will down regulate progesterone as its been noted with cancer patients and i also iv done tren only courses with bad progesterone gyno tamoxifen is a godsend 3 days and the progesterone gyno goes


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## Mike Arnold (May 24, 2014)

I don't know who wroite this OP, but it's absolutely 100% full of shit! Basically, the article says neither Nolav or climid do anything to help restore the HPTA. It also goes on to say the studies don't matter and anyone referencing the studies simply doesn't know how to interpret them.

Those comments are so far from reality that I can't even believe someone actually belives that. There are numerous stuies showing that both Nolva and Clomid (and AI's) elevate testosterone production SIGNIFICANTLY and within a SHORT period of time...and not just one study, but multiple. Both will also restore sperm count & motility, although Clomid appears to be superior in this regard. In fact, Clomid is considered the gold-standard among fertility specialists world-wide for its ability to increase sperm count & motility; a critical aspect of PCT for many individuals. 

The SERM & and AI combo is a tried & true method for increasing both testosterone & sperm production in those experiencing HPTA suppression. It had worked for literally 1,000's and 1,000's of people, with innumerable blood tests from users to prove it.


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## heavyiron (May 24, 2014)

Its just Need2 spam. They bash legit meds and push their placebos.


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