# How important is to work out biceps and triceps?



## ssaurya@hammer. (Apr 21, 2006)

Hi All,
Simple question: How important is to work out biceps and triceps? 
If yes, how many exercise and how many sets of each?
If no, as I have seen many people advocating for compound exercises to get the same effect instead of doing isloation exercises for biceps and triceps. So what are the exercises recommended in this category?
How effective is one strategy (say isolation) over the other strategy say compound)?
What is the right combination or not combinations required for bigger  biceps and triceps?
My aplogies- the more I read the more I am confused?
Thanks
S


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## GFR (Apr 21, 2006)

Isolation is fine but it should only be a small part of your workout.


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## CowPimp (Apr 21, 2006)

It depends on your goals. .. 

If you are lifting for strength, then isolation work is largely a waste of time.  Sometimes it can be beneficial in that context, such as the case of a strongman competitor who needs to strengthen the musculotendinous junction of their bicep so that it doesn't tear when they're lifting big ass stones.  However, your average weekend warrior who is interested in increasing muscular strength should, for the most part, not be concerned with isolation arm work.

If you are lifting for general health, then isolation work is definitely a waste of time.  You are going to get much better results by performing exercises that not only tax the muscular, skeletal, and nervous systems to a larger degree, but by performing exercises that involve a greater demand from your cardiovascular system.  Go ahead and do a set of 20 repetition squats and tell me you aren't breathing hard.

If you are a bodybuilder, whether it be competitively or recreationally, then isolation arm work can be beneficial.  Nonetheless, as Foreman already said, it should only comprise a small portion of your routine.  Most of the stimulus, and often even all of the stimulus, necessary for growth will come from the big compound movements.  Some supplementation with isolation work can certainly be beneficial, but you don't need to devote an entire day to arm training, and you shouldn't have more variations of bicep curls than you do variations of squats in your program.  

Another thing to keep in mind is that professional bodybuilders are most all jacked up on special sauce.  Their ability to recover is far greater than your will ever be because of this.  They can train their arms, and the rest of their bodies too, with a lot more volume than you can and see great results.


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## ablc (Apr 21, 2006)

I look at it as frosting and cake.  Isolation work is the frosting, compound moves are the cake...the occasional spoonful of frosting is fine, but it lacks form and substance, whereas cake by itself is fine.  Best use for frosting is on a good cake...heavy frosting on a poorly-made cake just tears the cake apart.


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## MyK (Apr 21, 2006)

MMMmmmmmm....cake!


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## CowPimp (Apr 21, 2006)

ablc said:
			
		

> I look at it as frosting and cake.  Isolation work is the frosting, compound moves are the cake...the occasional spoonful of frosting is fine, but it lacks form and substance, whereas cake by itself is fine.  Best use for frosting is on a good cake...heavy frosting on a poorly-made cake just tears the cake apart.



Yeah, and there are a lot of dumbshit kids who lick the frosting off the cake.


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## ablc (Apr 21, 2006)

See?  Best analogy ever.  
I eat the cake in public, but save the frosting at home because I make a mess of it


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## mrmark (Apr 21, 2006)

A lot of the time, the guys who come in who only do chest, also only train biceps. They spend ~30 min on biceps and do so about 4 times a week. It's silly but that's their priority.


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## ablc (Apr 21, 2006)

There's a guy at my gym who only does triceps.  He's there almost every time I'm there, so probably lots of other times, too, as my schedule is a bit random.  I've never seen him do anything besides triceps...closest he's come is a CG BP, at least it was compound.


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## Gazhole (Apr 21, 2006)

ablc said:
			
		

> I look at it as frosting and cake. Isolation work is the frosting, compound moves are the cake...the occasional spoonful of frosting is fine, but it lacks form and substance, whereas cake by itself is fine. Best use for frosting is on a good cake...heavy frosting on a poorly-made cake just tears the cake apart.


Now im just damned hungry for cake!

I havent had cake for ages.

I WAS DOING SO WELL! 

***

But yes, try and mix compound and isolation together, but there should definitely be more of the former.

Ive seen better gains the last few weeks doing chin ups than i did when i used to do just curls. Though curls (especially the barbell curl) did work for me, chins seem to be working just as well, and im not overtraining my biceps anymore.

For triceps i find the tricep-orientated version of push-ups work well, when combined with extensions of some kind.  I've still gotta look for the correct form on skullcrushers before i try them though.


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## ablc (Apr 21, 2006)

I'm _such_ a bad influence!


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## Gazhole (Apr 21, 2006)

ablc said:
			
		

> I'm _such_ a bad influence!



CAKE is a bad influence. You are just it's minion.


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## Triple Threat (Apr 21, 2006)

ablc said:
			
		

> I look at it as frosting and cake.  Isolation work is the frosting, compound moves are the cake.



There's a couple of guys at the gym where I go who have mounds and mounds of frosting whenever I see them there.


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## ablc (Apr 21, 2006)

And they look very silly like that, don't they?


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## Triple Threat (Apr 21, 2006)

ablc said:
			
		

> And they look very silly like that, don't they?





Chicken legs, flat butt, drooping shoulders, and tiny little golf balls protruding on their upper arms.


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## ssaurya@hammer. (Apr 24, 2006)

Thanks guys for your opinion. So if I divide my workout into Chest, back, shoulder and legs, what will be the right workout program for me, considering two muscles a day. Currently I am doing,  chest and shoulders on one day and back and legs on another day. (two to three days/week). I would like that my biceps and triceps get covered in these two days. 
S


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## CowPimp (Apr 24, 2006)

ssaurya@hammer. said:
			
		

> Thanks guys for your opinion. So if I divide my workout into Chest, back, shoulder and legs, what will be the right workout program for me, considering two muscles a day. Currently I am doing,  chest and shoulders on one day and back and legs on another day. (two to three days/week). I would like that my biceps and triceps get covered in these two days.
> S



I'm a big fan of push-pull-legs.  If you perform a split routine, then I don't think pairing back and legs together is a good idea.  These are the two largest masses of muscle on your body.  It seems to me like you're unecessarily stressing your body's ability to recover by pairing them together.


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## scbz01602 (Apr 24, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> I'm a big fan of push-pull-legs.  If you perform a split routine, then I don't think pairing back and legs together is a good idea.  These are the two largest masses of muscle on your body.  It seems to me like you're unecessarily stressing your body's ability to recover by pairing them together.



I agree- I'm also currently using the push/pull/legs split. If I do work the arms at all, I do low volume activity. Triceps are heavily recruited on the press movements, and biceps and forearms are heavily recruited on pulls.

I don't think you should eliminate bicep and tricep movement out of the routine, as it only helps to implement a few sets of each at the end of each workout, but the majority of work of the arms should be on the compound movements.

I can see where you are coming from with combining back and legs, but as CowPimp stated, that is so much work to cover in one day. It would be best to separate the two, even though most of the compound back/leg movements have similiar muscle recuitment. Separate back and legs with several days inbetween, if you can do so.


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## Brutus_G (Apr 24, 2006)

The only case i make for isolation is that on bench presses any kind IE close grip or wide my chest will take 75% of the load so skull crushers are a must. Hey also it's fun at the end of a real workout to work the biceps. I also feel squats and dead lifts don't hit the gastrocnemius like bench and pull ups hit the biceps and triceps.


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## kenwood (Apr 24, 2006)

cake is sick to me..theirs 2 things that i realy dont like....
1.cake  
2.candy  
i just never liked any of it ....i never have any cavities either


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## kenwood (Apr 24, 2006)

i say training should be 90% compound and  10% isolation...the isolation is just the glazing on the donut


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## GFR (Apr 24, 2006)

kenwood said:
			
		

> i say training should be 90% compound and  10% isolation...the* isolation is just the glazing on the donut*


http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showpost.php?p=1325488&postcount=1
#31


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## Brutus_G (Apr 24, 2006)

I must admit i've always hated frosting.


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## kenwood (Apr 24, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showpost.php?p=1325488&postcount=1
> #31



http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showpost.php?p=1325488&postcount=1

#32


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## The13ig13adWolf (Apr 24, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Isolation is fine but it should only be a small part of your workout.


i agree.


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## TheCurse (Apr 24, 2006)

on push day ill spend about 30-40 minutes doing chest exercises and 20-30 doing tricep exercises and about 10 doing lateral delt exercises.  on back day i spend about 50 minutes doing back exercises, 10 minutes doing rear delt isolation exercises, and about 15 minutes doing bicep exercises.  Ive been doing this for years, except i never used to do any direct bicep work at all until pretty recently.


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## ssaurya@hammer. (May 16, 2006)

Hi all, 
Those who follow Push/pull/legs regime, where do you fit abdominals exercises?
S


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## 33sun33 (May 16, 2006)

ssaurya@hammer. said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> Those who follow Push/pull/legs regime, where do you fit abdominals exercises?
> S



I am by no means an expert, and indeed have just started the push/pull/legs split a week ago.  Anyways, I do a few sets of upper abs as an antagonistic exercise on push day (so after a set of dumbbell presses, I do an ab set while recovering for the next set of presses).  I also do a few sets of lower abs as an antagonist during leg days (so after a set of squats, I may do a set of abs).

I am also following a periodization schedule ala the cowpimp sticky, so I find that grouping my ab exercises to complement whatever exercises Im doing for strength (8 sets by 3 reps) is most efficient.


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## CowPimp (May 16, 2006)

ssaurya@hammer. said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> Those who follow Push/pull/legs regime, where do you fit abdominals exercises?
> S



Throw a few sets on whichever day you perform the fewest exercises.


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## myCATpowerlifts (May 16, 2006)

TheCurse said:
			
		

> on push day ill spend about 30-40 minutes doing chest exercises and 20-30 doing tricep exercises and about 10 doing lateral delt exercises.  on back day i spend about 50 minutes doing back exercises, 10 minutes doing rear delt isolation exercises, and about 15 minutes doing bicep exercises.  Ive been doing this for years, except i never used to do any direct bicep work at all until pretty recently.



So what made you decide to start doing the bicep work now?


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## TheCurse (May 16, 2006)

just for balances sake.  my triceps are way bigger than my biceps, and it was starting to look kind of funny.


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## GFR (May 16, 2006)

If you want 17 inch arms like IRON MAN then do alot of isolation work, if you want 20 inch+ arms then do big movements and only use isolation work for about 10-15% of your bicep workout.


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## ssaurya@hammer. (May 17, 2006)

Thanks cow pimp and all. So there is no compound movements that cover ups abs exercises?
S


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## dontsurfonmytur (May 17, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> If you want 17 inch arms like IRON MAN then do alot of isolation work, if you want 20 inch+ arms then do big movements and only use isolation work for about 10-15% of your bicep workout.



http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showpost.php?p=1325488&postcount=1

#37


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## ssaurya@hammer. (Jul 4, 2006)

Hi all,
Can somebody tell me what are the good compound movement exercises designed for Push/legs/pull regime?
Thanks
S


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## CowPimp (Jul 4, 2006)

ssaurya@hammer. said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> Can somebody tell me what are the good compound movement exercises designed for Push/legs/pull regime?
> Thanks
> S



Read through all the stickies.  There are plenty of examples of exercises throughout.


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## AKIRA (Jul 4, 2006)

ssaurya@hammer. said:
			
		

> Thanks cow pimp and all. So there is no compound movements that cover ups abs exercises?
> S



For the last few weeks of my push/pull/legs regime, I added an "accessory" day.  This would be my fourth day of the week and it was on this day I would do core, cardio, grip strength, and some arm movements if I hadnt done them on the push/pull days.

E.G.
Push

Barbell Bench Press
Standing overhead Barbell press
Dumbell decline fly
Lateral Dumbell Raise

Pull
Weighted Pullups
Barbell Row
Lat pulldown
Unilateral Dumbell Row

Leg
ATG Squats
Deadlifts
Lunges
Leg Curls

'Accessory'
Barbell Curls
Skullcrushers
Towel pullups
Static Holds
Wrist curls
Leg Raises
Rope crunch

It seems like my accessory day is longer than the rest, but its actually the shortest.  Some days I wont do any arm movements or less grip work; it changes every week.  Low volume, short rests.  Err, actually it could be longer with cardio added to it, but cardio might be added to other days.


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## Double D (Jul 4, 2006)

I don't look at it as a waste of time, but if I am real tired at the end of a workout and don't wanna do I don't feel like I missed out. Besides my damned arms are overdeveloped.


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