# What to use for sore nipple/slight lump on Test, NPP, Dbol?



## DaBeast25 (Apr 27, 2014)

Obviously not supposed to use Nolva with the nandrolone.  I'll get bloods back on Mon or Tues, should I just try to get whatever is out of line under control whether its Estro or Prolactin?  I'm assuming the gyno symptoms would eventually subside then right?

currently taking 30mg or aromasin ed and caber at .25mg e3d.

cycle is...
Test P 100 mg eod
NPP 130mg eod
Dbol 30mg ed


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## Warriorblaze (Apr 27, 2014)

Why can't you use Nolva and nandrolone?  I've never heard the bro science behind that one. 

Your aromasin looks high and your caber is low. 

Bump the caber up to 0.5mg e3d. 

Warrior


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## SoCalSwole (Apr 27, 2014)

Caber looks a little low to me as well. Letro will knock it right out but it will set you back a week or 2 letro in my experience gets in the way or does something to make the gear not as strong.


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## heckler7 (Apr 27, 2014)

drop dbol asap and run letro


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## cityboy21 (Apr 27, 2014)




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## DaBeast25 (Apr 27, 2014)

Haha, got milk?
i was under the impression nolva somehow interfered with prolactin or progesterone which could potentially complicate things while running a 19-nor.  I guess I'm going to wait for my bloods to come back either way.  Dbol aromatizes to estrogen, as does the test and hcg I'm taking so I'll be interested to see if estrogen still is high on 40mg of aromasin or if my prolactin is high.  I guess it has to be one or the other.


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## SoCalSwole (Apr 27, 2014)

I'll put money on it that its the E not the prolactin


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## Machmood (Apr 27, 2014)

Both dosages are well Within the range reccomended for cycles. The stane is on the higher end and caber on the lower. I would jump on either nolva 40mg for 2 or 3 days then 20mg after or 120mg of RALOX for 1 or 2 days then 60mg after. Once you get bloodwork back you will see the issue, but it's most likely your estrogen. To put things In perspective I'm on trt and got gyno when my E2 was only slightly out of range, it was 52 on a scale of 15-42. The cycle your on would prob put your E2 At 250+, and conciderng some people get gyno when the e2 is only slightly high it's easy to see how gyno can arise even on 30mg stane.


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## Sherk (Apr 27, 2014)

The great thing about asin is you can run it high and not crush your e2. But with that said, if your e2 comes back high then I'd suggest replacing it with letro until symptoms subside then adjust your dose or continue with adex instead. At 30mg ed of asin you should be in normal range. I've been telling guys for probably 2 years now that asin is a better option for on cycle and you can take an upwards dose of 50mg daily without any issues. HeavyIron just posted an article yesterday that backs up what I've been saying this whole time. The problem is very few people take the time to do any real research off of aas boards that are full of bro science and parroted bs. Also you should consider possibly increasing your caber dose. Does the lab work you got include prolactin or progestin?


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## Machmood (Apr 27, 2014)

Hey sherk, when people on cycle complain of gyno setting in and are on stane why does everyone jump right to letro. It's super strong and tough to dial in. Isn't adex a much better middle ground. .5mg EOD and maybe up to ED. it just seems like a much better option with much less chance of crushing e2 and ruining a cycle


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## SoCalSwole (Apr 27, 2014)

Machmood said:


> Hey sherk, when people on cycle complain of gyno setting in and are on stane why does everyone jump right to letro. It's super strong and tough to dial in. Isn't adex a much better middle ground. .5mg EOD and maybe up to ED. it just seems like a much better option with much less chance of crushing e2 and ruining a cycle



Exactly, Only go the letro route as a last resort. Adex will crush your E2 as well. done that thats no fun. and yes dialing in the adex much easier.


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## DaBeast25 (Apr 27, 2014)

Sherk said:


> The great thing about asin is you can run it high and not crush your e2. But with that said, if your e2 comes back high then I'd suggest replacing it with letro until symptoms subside then adjust your dose or continue with adex instead. At 30mg ed of asin you should be in normal range. I've been telling guys for probably 2 years now that asin is a better option for on cycle and you can take an upwards dose of 50mg daily without any issues. HeavyIron just posted an article yesterday that backs up what I've been saying this whole time. The problem is very few people take the time to do any real research off of aas boards that are full of bro science and parroted bs. Also you should consider possibly increasing your caber dose. Does the lab work you got include prolactin or progestin?



it will include prolactin


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## DaBeast25 (Apr 28, 2014)

So what's the consensus on Nolva with NPP.  I was under the impression that it could make prolactin based gyno worse(or cause it) when using a 19-nor, but let's say my Estro comes back high and my Prolactin is normal.  Would Nolva be the best bet then?  
Obviously I'll need to up the dose of Aromasiin or start Adex to reduce the conversation of test to estro, but to treat the gyno immediately Nolva is the only thing I can think of, although I do have some Masteron Prop already which I believe is supposed to actually treat Gyno as well.


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## Diesel618 (Apr 28, 2014)

I always thought nolva upregulated progesterone receptors as well but no one around here seems to be too concerned about it. I guess it may just be bro science. I'll try to see if I can dig up a study.


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## l69lou (Apr 28, 2014)

The only time I ever had any slight gyno issues I was on adex .5mg/eod and I was recomended to go on nolva 20mg/day for 10 days with an increase in the dose of adex to 1mg/eod thereafter . It worked like a charm . I was on 600mg/wk of Npp a 19 nor at the time . I think nolva is a great emergency measure for estrogen .


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## DaBeast25 (Apr 28, 2014)

Bloods are back.  
Estrogen is 97.8.  Range 7.6-42.6
Prolactin is 14.0   Range 4.0-15.2

for all the folks think Aromasin is incredibly strong, THIS is why we get bloodwork.  From here I guess I'm going to order Nolva and Adex.  In the mean time I'll bump up this aromasin dose.  The weird thing is that I've ran 30mg of aromasin from this same company before and it kept me in a normal range while using much more test 700-800mg/week.  Does the addition of dbol and hcg make that huge of a difference in aromatization or is this aromasin bunk or under dosed?


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## DaBeast25 (Apr 28, 2014)

My ALT and AST are also high
ALT is really high at 85.           Range 0-44
AST is slightly elevated at 46.   Range 0-40

 Supposed to have just under 2 weeks of dbol left and I have a ton of aromasin already.  I'm tempted to just bump aromasin up to 40-60mg ed(have 20mg tabs) until the dbol is out.  I have to believe the dbol is causing this huge spike in estrogen.


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## SoCalSwole (Apr 28, 2014)

HCG bro! Thats why a lot of guys try not to run it until they are off and on to nolva. HCG will definitely raise your E2 levels. It raises your natural test too but when your on cycle it doesn't really matter.  I run Hcg too during cycles. But sometimes its a bitch keeping E in check without slam dunking it and feeling like crap. Its a fine line and each cycle is different. Just keep tweaking it until you find the sweet spot.


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## SoCalSwole (Apr 28, 2014)

By the way I called it it was E not Prolactin. Even though the prolactin was on the high side of normal that is more likely directly related to those E levels. Once the E levels go down so will the prolactin. Unless he is on a Nor 19 his prolactin levels wont go up without E, and even that is highly debated.


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## DaBeast25 (Apr 28, 2014)

You predicted it. I saw.  Too bad you couldn't get a bettor to take you on it!

I am on a 19nor(NPP) although it's obviously not the issue and my low dose caber seems to being doing the trick on that front.  So, would Hcg really cause more aromatase than dbol at these doses?


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## SoCalSwole (Apr 28, 2014)

That Im not sure about. But it will raise your E on its own and it gets harder to keep it baseline because you only inject he hcg 2 times a week that coupled with the fact that it degrades in the fridge and is not nearly as potent 6 weeks later. Its hard to dial in the AI's. What you can do to maintain its potency is to reconstitute it and take half or a third of it and freeze it that way you only have a couple weeks worth at best in the fridge losing potency. That with splitting up the weekly amount into 3 doses helps too. No one said this shit was easy


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## Machmood (Apr 28, 2014)

Many people believe 19nors don't raise prolactin, and that's it's just a side effect of high Estrogen. No idea what the truth is, but more times then not if you keep e2 in check your g2g. Can't wait for my first test/dbol/aromasin cycle. Will be running 500mg test a week, 40mg ed of dbol for 4 weeks and 25mg stane a day


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## StanG (Apr 28, 2014)

The tamox/19 nor thng is blown way out of proportion Ther is an up regulation of the receptor for 2 weeks, then it actually DOWN-REGULATES. 
that being said I would run raloxifene anyway Its the best gyno treatment their is. It blocks the e receptor in breast tissue better than any other avail serm.
Stane is not as powerful as people think. I would manage your e2 with an increased dose of stane or adex if you want to switch.
So manage e2 with an ai , treat gyno with a serm (raloxifene). 
Thats what I would do.....


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## SoCalSwole (Apr 28, 2014)

Machmood said:


> Many people believe 19nors don't raise prolactin, and that's it's just a side effect of high Estrogen. No idea what the truth is, but more times then not if you keep e2 in check your g2g. Can't wait for my first test/dbol/aromasin cycle. Will be running 500mg test a week, 40mg ed of dbol for 4 weeks and 25mg stane a day



^^^^^^ Yea Buddy, might be pure bro science but I have found what you just said to be true^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## Machmood (Apr 28, 2014)

^ while on the topic of estrogen on cycle, I always wonder how guys like arnold ran high test/high dbol cycles with no AI. To me its unthinkable. On trt at 120mg a week and e2 at 52 I got gyno! I also wonder if high E is what caused many of these guys heart problems


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## DaBeast25 (Apr 28, 2014)

Well I think I'm ordering Adex and nolva today. Will bump my aromasin dose way up in the mean time(at least 50mg ed)


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## SoCalSwole (Apr 28, 2014)

Machmood said:


> ^ while on the topic of estrogen on cycle, I always wonder how guys like arnold ran high test/high dbol cycles with no AI. To me its unthinkable. On trt at 120mg a week and e2 at 52 I got gyno! I also wonder if high E is what caused many of these guys heart problems



More than likely they stayed on cycle to long and their blood got thicker than molasses, that and also the bloat and hypertension that surely be there with no AI's. One last thing these guys diets and body composition were on point. Anyone with some experience will tell you that when your BF is in single digits its a lot easier to manage bloat from test. Which is why I stay so lean year round so they probably did not need much help with AI because of the low fat levels in their bodies.  Also Arnold was a primobolan and EQ guy. Im sure he used test but I dont think he ever went really high.


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## DaBeast25 (Apr 28, 2014)

Ordered Adex and nolva.  Will probably start nolva at 40mg ed then work down, not sure about the Adex dose to start with.  
Also wondering if it would be any use to add masteron.  I believe it was created for breast cancer treatment which would imply that it would help here and I can start that now whereas I'm going to have to wait a few days for the Adex and nolva


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## dutchmaster454 (Apr 28, 2014)

Bro if E2 is in check than you do not need to worry about Gyno at all, even when on 19nors. Prolactin and progesterone NEED the presence of High estrogen to from breast tissue. It has been proven lol Even HEavy Iron talked about this. %90 of the national guys i know and pros DO NOT use these Parkinson drugs.  i am on 450 NPP and 700 Test right now with ZERO side effects other than night sweats and all i am running in 12.5mg of Asin a day ( pharma grade.) Thats another thing, idk where you get you Ais from but Your Asin is WAY under dosed bro. Asin is suicidal Ai and can actually crush E2 faster than Adex as it doesn't just bind to the aromatize enzyme but completely destroys it and than your body has to take 2-3 days to make new enzymes. There is obviously Asin in there but a very low dose. My guess is you are using a research company ? cmon now lol


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## Machmood (Apr 28, 2014)

I agree with everything you said except for the exemestane dosage. I'm on 140mg of test a week and run 6.25 ED and e2 stays in range. For refrence on 120mg a week my e2 was 51. My exemestane is straight from cvs, I'd assume I'll need double your dosage when on cycle, everyone is different


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## DaBeast25 (Apr 28, 2014)

Not a research company.  Actually from a spinster here who's been around a long time.  Everything else I got from them appears to be legit i.e. Prop, NPP, Dbol, HCG
at the same time I'm thinking it either has to be underdosed or the dbol or hcg is making a huge difference.  I used 30mg of asin ed from the same place last year when using a lot more test and estrogen was about 40something.  Weird


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## DaBeast25 (Apr 28, 2014)

My Asin is from a pretty reputable source/sponser here that's been around a while.  Got all my gear from them which is clearly legit.  Weird thing is I used this same brand of Asin at 30mg ed last year when running a lot more test and my estrogen was 40something.  

Since I know that 30mh of Asin got me to this point, would it make any sense to just add Adex at a low dose to my 30mg of Asin?   I was going to just save the Asin for pct and start staright Adex and nolva but I have no clue how much to start with as I haven't used Adex in a long long time.

sh*t. Just realized my previous post went through. Sorry for the double post


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## dutchmaster454 (Apr 29, 2014)

This just goes to show how everyone responds Diff to gear and Ais. Not one person will respond the same. Maybe Asin doesn't metabolize well with your body and you need Adex instead.


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## heckler7 (Apr 30, 2014)

I've had my E2 over 200 and only got an itchy puffy nip. You must be gyno prone. Just sayn

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## Machmood (Apr 30, 2014)

Then there's me on the other end of the spectrum. I got gyno on 120mg a week and e2 was only 51


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## DaBeast25 (Apr 30, 2014)

Bump for a solid recommended starting dose of Adex and Nolva considering my situation.  Unfortunately, I won't have either until Friday.  I have bumped my Aromasin up to what "should" be 60mg ed with no noticeable difference in my symptoms.  I can't imagine these tabs are actually 20mg each, has to be a bad batch.

I'm thinking about taking 60mg of nova the first day then 40mg ed until symptoms subside, then tapering down to 20mg ed.
Not sure about where to start with adex... Probably 1mg ed until symptoms subside, then taper to 1mg eod, and down from there(I'll probably switch back to this lame Aromasin for PCT.

I obviously want to stop this ASAP, but I don't want to go unnecessarily overboard with meds either.


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## DaBeast25 (May 6, 2014)

So I've been taken 1mg adex and 40mg of nolvadex ed for 5 days now...zero change in symptoms.  I'm dropping dbol by the end of the week, and I'm hoping that makes a difference... just wondering how long it should take for the adex and nolva to work before I start wondering about another plan?

It's really weird because I used Aromasin from the same company in the past with no problem... maybe the 30mg of dbol ed really just causes way to much aromatase for my body to handle???


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## DaBeast25 (May 7, 2014)

Nobody huh?


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## moodyman1 (May 9, 2014)

Sherk said:


> The great thing about asin is you can run it high and not crush your e2.



I'm gonna have to take exception to that. I was running Test E/EQ cycle with a 4 week Dbol kicker. I was also taking 12.5mg of NATCO exemestane ED. According to my bloodwork taken at the 4 week mark my estro was CRUSHED along with my libido even though my test level was at 2100. Free test was a whopping 650.


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## Machmood (May 9, 2014)

With stane crushed is relative, skip a few days and your back to normal, with other drugs it can take weeks or months


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## Bo bangz (Dec 5, 2016)

where can I get nolvadex and adex

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## Trenbologna (Dec 6, 2016)

The absolute best thing I've used to prevent and also get rid of gyno is raloxophene. 60mg a day will prevent you from developing gyno and also it will shrink and rid your body of pre existing gyno. In my experience it works better than nolvadex with less side effects.


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## Trenbologna (Dec 6, 2016)

Obviously you need to use an aromatase inhibitor on cycle when using aromatizing compounds like dbol, to prevent estrogen conversion and build up. Ralox is used solely for gyno treatment and it works great. I reccomend avoiding research chem or UGL versions of these compounds and going with Pharm grade.


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## Bo bangz (Dec 6, 2016)

where can i get it

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## Trenbologna (Dec 6, 2016)

Bo bangz said:


> where can i get it
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk



You can get legit anastazole (arimadex) and tamoxifen (nolvadex) from AnabolicEnergy.com my orders from them have always been legit and Balkan is a licensed pharmaceutical manufacturer.


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