# bcaa's



## klc9100 (Feb 11, 2010)

are the bcaa's that come in protein powders enough, or do you guys take other bcaa supplements also.  if so, can you make any recommendations.


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## pitman (Feb 11, 2010)

klc9100 said:


> are the bcaa's that come in protein powders enough, or do you guys take other bcaa supplements also. if so, can you make any recommendations.


aaa, google it !!!!


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## klc9100 (Feb 11, 2010)

pitman said:


> aaa, google it !!!!


 
google what?

i'm asking for personal opinions and personal experiences.  isn't that what message boards & forums are for?


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## nni (Feb 11, 2010)

klc9100 said:


> are the bcaa's that come in protein powders enough, or do you guys take other bcaa supplements also.  if so, can you make any recommendations.



free form amino acids are very different than whole aminos found in food. powders are preferable to pills. Ice from Xtreme Formulations is my choice.


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## klc9100 (Feb 11, 2010)

nni said:


> free form amino acids are very different than whole aminos found in food. powders are preferable to pills. Ice from Xtreme Formulations is my choice.


 
thank you


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## PushAndPull (Feb 11, 2010)

nni said:


> free form amino acids are very different than whole aminos found in food. powders are preferable to pills. Ice from Xtreme Formulations is my choice.



What exactly is the benefit of supplementing with free form amino acids compared to supplementing with protein?


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## nni (Feb 12, 2010)

PushAndPull said:


> What exactly is the benefit of supplementing with free form amino acids compared to supplementing with protein?



especially around/during exercise, effects seem to be greater than whey. scivation did a study comparing their bcaa product to whey and found it to be superior. i could be mistaken, bu ajinmoto had a good amount of info on their site (they are a huge supplier of aminos).


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## MAC24/7 (Feb 14, 2010)

i recommend synthia6..try it out first!!


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## AKIRA (Feb 14, 2010)

nni said:


> free form amino acids are very different than whole aminos found in food. powders are preferable to pills. Ice from Xtreme Formulations is my choice.



Ok, I just looked at that product and Uni-Liver.  The price is quite a contrast, yet Uni delivers more.  Plus its in pill form which for me is awesome.

My question is, what am I not understanding here?  Why would someone pay more for Ice?


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## nni (Feb 14, 2010)

MAC24/7 said:


> i recommend synthia6..try it out first!!



that isnt a bcaa supplement, at least try to read the thread before posting.



AKIRA said:


> Ok, I just looked at that product and Uni-Liver.  The price is quite a contrast, yet Uni delivers more.  Plus its in pill form which for me is awesome.
> 
> My question is, what am I not understanding here?  Why would someone pay more for Ice?



well uniliver isnt a bcaa supplement, it is bovine livers which is a complete protein, which again needs to be broken down. on top of that, the recommended serving is 60 grains, which translates to about 4 grams. so if you are taking this for bcaa purposes, ill compare it to ice...

1 scoop ice yields:
L-Leucine	  3320mg
L-Isoleucine  1490mg	
L-Valine	  1730mg

for the equivalent of unilver you need 28 tablets, which would yield:
L-Leucine	  3320mg
L-Isoleucine  1747mg
L-Valine	  2349mg

ice is cheaper direct from black star labs, and they use ajinmoto bcaas which are as good as it gets. if you want bcaas i would use them or dymatize has a new product. if you want complete protein, whey and uniliver are somewhat similar options.


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## AKIRA (Feb 14, 2010)

Ahh I see.  I do remember taking a lot of pills.


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## theCaptn' (Feb 14, 2010)

just buy bulk BCAAs . . you can flavour them yourself with a dash of lemon/lime juice


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## AKIRA (Feb 14, 2010)

Ok I am going to reveal my ignorance.

Why take BCAAs?  When would you take them?  Before a workout?  What do they do exactly?  Provide energy, avoid 'fatigue,' lets you lift more weight or more reps?  What is the benefit of having a bcaa supplement over a complete protein other than digestion loss/time savings?

Lots of newbie questions here, I know.  What I am really getting at is the difference between taking bcaa's over protein that has bcaa's in them...  If they go into your system faster, what is it doing and how am I feeling while its working?

If its just that "it goes right into the system," why couldnt a person ingest a complete protein, give it time to digest, then workout.

As you can see, I am an idiot when it comes to bcaa s and thats cuz ive always trained without them.


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## theCaptn' (Feb 14, 2010)

*




Articles > Bodybuilding Supplements > Benefits Of BCAA*


Amino Acids are the building blocks of muscle protein. Getting adequate amounts of Amino Acids is difficult for those who exercise. Exercise burns Amino Acids rapidly. Failure to replenish the body with proper Amino Acids can cause people who work out vigorously to make little or no progress.

Amino Acids are best used as Free Form and Branched Chain. These Amino Acids do not require digestion and go straight into the blood stream for immediate use by muscle cells. BCAA also provides 70% of the body???s Nitrogen requirement.

*The Difference Between Essential and Non-Essential Amino Acids?*

Essential amino acids cannot be made by the body. You must get them from complete protein foods or combinations of incomplete vegetable foods. There are 9 essential amino acids: histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, tryptophan, and valine. Your body can make non-essential amino acids by itself from vitamins and other amino acids.

The term "non-essential" can be misleading since all amino acids are essential for proper metabolism and certain non-essential amino acids, such as glutamine, become very essential during illness or trauma. The 13 non-essential amino acids are alanine, arginine, aspartic acid, cysteine, cystine, glutamic acid, glutamine, glycine, hydroxyproline, proline, serine, & tyrosine. 
The essential branched chain amino acids (BCAA's) are of special importance for athletes because they are metabolized in the muscle, rather than in the liver. Here's how this works: After digestion once protein is broken down into individual amino acids these aminos can either be used to build new proteins or be burned as fuel to produce energy.
*Twenty two amino acids divided into 2 groups*
*Essential*
*Non-essential*
Histidine
Alanine
Isoleucine
Arginine
Leucine
Aspartic Acid
Lysine
Cysteine
Methionine
Cystine
Phenylalanine
Glutamic Acid
Tryptophan
Glutamine
Threonine
Glycine
Valine
Hydroxyproline​ 
Proline​ 
Serine​ 
Tyrosine​ 
*BCAA and Bodybuilding*

Bodybuilders want to avoid the reduced muscle size and strength consequent of reduced muscle protein synthesis and breakdown. Keep in mind an adequate level of free BCAA won't turn you into superman (although higher targeted dosages may come close), but will enable you to avoid some of the negative effects of BCAA depletion including inadequate recovery and training stagnation.

If you already have an adequate level provided by your diet, you'll really be able to see the benefits. In addition to consuming enough protein, make sure you consume enough quality calories on a daily basis and get plenty of rest and recovery. By consuming adequate calories and carbohydrates you'll help spare the BCAAs.

The greater your glycogen storage the more likely your BCAA pool will be used for muscle growth and the less likely it will be oxidized as energy. Rest and recovery will further help direct your BCAA pool towards muscle growth. Following these steps will go a long way in enhancing your gains-and we haven't even covered the REAL supplemental benefits yet!

*Benefits Of BCAA*

Now it's time for the good stuff! What can targeted BCAA supplementation do for you? Science has shown us that BCAA supplementation can have rather far-reaching positive effects in the body. Among These effects include:
*Increased Recovery* - Perhaps the greatest benefit to hard training athletes is the increase in metabolic recovery that follows supplementation. Most athletes feel a substantial decrease in the amount of post exercise muscle soreness soon after beginning BCAA supplementation. Even without any of the other benefits of BCAA usage this means faster recovery from exercise induced protein damage (remember your muscles grow when you damage them), which in turn means faster size and strength gains. With increased recovery the harder and more frequently you can hit the iron and thus the sooner you can meet your goals.


*Endurance* - The BCAAs can serve as a donor of nitrogen in the formation of l-alanine, which provides the body with glucose after glycogen stores have been depleted. When you think of sparing glycogen you probably think of high carbohydrate diets but BCAAs have proven their worth here as well. In a 4 week study Japanese researchers administered BCAAs or a placebo to rats and then exercised the animals to exhaustion. The BCAA group exhibited spared glycogen storage in the liver and skeletal muscle during exercise. This means that they may enable you to train at higher intensities for longer periods of time. Supplementing with BCAAs may enable you to maintain your training intensity and endurance as energy normally provided by your diet decreases. Anyone who has ever been on a very low carb or low calorie diet for extended periods can definitely appreciate this!*Stimulate Protein Synthesis* - BCAAs by themselves have been shown to independently stimulate muscle protein synthesis. In other words, they have shown the ability to induce muscle gains, even in the absence of weight training! Studies have shown that BCAA supplementation increases the hormones: testosterone, growth hormone, and insulin. 
All of these are highly anabolic hormones. Research also shows that under conditions of extreme stress, such as hiking for 21 days at high altitude, BCAA supplementation (10 grams per day) was shown to increase muscle mass while subjects ingesting a placebo had no such change. The important thing here is these people gained muscle under extreme conditions without any anabolic stimulus such as weight training.

*Stimulate Fat Loss* - Supplementation of BCAAs has been shown to trigger significant and preferential losses of visceral body fat. Located in the deeper layers of the body under the subcutaneous fat, this visceral fat tends to be resistant to dieting and is hard to lose. In one study, 25 competitive wrestlers were divided into 1 of 3 diet groups: a diet high in BCAAs, a diet low in BCAAs, and a control diet. The wrestlers stayed on the diets for 19 days. The results showed that the high BCAA group lost the most body fat, 17.3% on average. Much of the fat lost was in the abdominal region. This may give credence to BCAAs effectiveness at "spot reducing" the abs. In another study 2 groups of climbers were divided into a BCAA supplemented group and a control group. Both groups lost weight but the BCAA group actually gained muscle mass while losing fat and the other group lost muscle mass.

One theory as to how BCAAs exert their substantial fat burning and muscle building effects is this: When present in high amounts during exercise, the body senses high levels of BCAA in the bloodstream which is typically a sign of excessive muscle breakdown. So the body stops muscle breakdown and uses more fat for fuel. At the same time the extra BCAAs in the blood stimulate insulin so the BCAAs are driven directly to the muscle. So the result is people lose body fat and gain muscle at the same time. If my hunch is correct, in order to benefit the most from the fat loss aspect of BCAAs you should make sure you limit carbohydrate consumption during the 2 hour window before your workout.

*Boosting Immune Function* - Remember if you're sick it's hard to train, much less grow. It's even harder to come back after an illness without losing a ton of strength and size. When you train at high intensity or high volume you risk immune suppression and infections. By supplementing with BCAAs you'll help reverse glutamine loss, which is essential for immune function. In addition to this, the BCAAs help prevent a catabolic state in the body, which in turn can help improve recovery and lessen the damaging effects your exercise sessions may have on the body.

*Anti-Catabolic Effects* - BCAAs probably exert most of their anabolic effects through anti-catabolic activity. In short, they suppress the use of muscle proteins for fuel, thereby sparing the breakdown of muscular protein. In part this is because they can sacrifice themselves as fuel. With less muscular protein being broken down by the body during training, the net result is increased protein synthesis and more muscle for you! In a study done on obese people put on a starvation type diet, BCAA supplementation was found to induce anabolism and nitrogen sparing so the subjects burned body fat instead of lean muscle mass, thus sparing muscle protein.

*Where is BCAA found? *

Dairy products and red meat contain the greatest amounts of BCAAs, although they are present in all protein-containing foods. Whey protein and egg protein supplements are other sources of BCAAs. BCAA supplements provide the amino acids leucine, isoleucine, and valine.

*How much BCAA Should I Take? *

Most diets provide an adequate amount of BCAA for most people, which is about 25???65 mg per pound of body weight.28 29 Athletes involved in intense training often take 5 grams of leucine, 4 grams of valine, and 2 grams of isoleucine per day to prevent muscle loss and increase muscle gain, though most research does not support this use of BCAAs.


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## AKIRA (Feb 14, 2010)

> One theory as to how BCAAs exert their substantial fat burning and muscle building effects is this: When present in high amounts during exercise, the body senses high levels of BCAA in the bloodstream which is typically a sign of excessive muscle breakdown. So the body stops muscle breakdown and uses more fat for fuel. At the same time the extra BCAAs in the blood stimulate insulin so the BCAAs are driven directly to the muscle. So the result is people lose body fat and gain muscle at the same time. If my hunch is correct, in order to benefit the most from the fat loss aspect of BCAAs you should make sure you limit carbohydrate consumption during the 2 hour window before your workout.



Thats some crazy shit right there.  Catabolic and anabolic effect going on.

Good article, but most of that I already know.  It still sounds like I should consume products with bcaas, but again, other than the speed of it getting into my system, I havent gotten the info on why I couldnt just get bcaas from my protein shakes.


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## theCaptn' (Feb 14, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> Thats some crazy shit right there. Catabolic and anabolic effect going on.
> 
> Good article, but most of that I already know. It still sounds like I should consume products with bcaas, but again, other than the speed of it getting into my system, I havent gotten the info on why I couldnt just get bcaas from my protein shakes.


 
because this is referring to free-from bcaas . . as opposed to bcaas found in food.

 .. . for fat loss I do fasted AM cardio with 20-30g BCAAs sip 20% pre, 40% intra and slam the last 40% immediately post WO . .  wait ~20min to allow for absorbtion before pWO nutrition.


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## AKIRA (Feb 15, 2010)

Right, free form.  However, Ice for example isnt cheap.  Unless it lasts long (someone chime in if you can).  So as a consumer, Id like to know what I am getting for spending 80 bucks.


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## nni (Feb 15, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> Right, free form.  However, Ice for example isnt cheap.  Unless it lasts long (someone chime in if you can).  So as a consumer, Id like to know what I am getting for spending 80 bucks.



ice is under $40 and you should really only take it during workouts. basically, what i notice is a decrease in doms. bcaa's are not necessary at all, but a good addition. there is science to it, and it might be worth picking a tub up to see if you enjoy it. a cheap option is dymatize recoup, which is on sale for $20 at a different site.


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## AKIRA (Feb 15, 2010)

Thank you for the information.


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## theCaptn' (Feb 15, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> Right, free form. However, Ice for example isnt cheap. Unless it lasts long (someone chime in if you can). So as a consumer, Id like to know what I am getting for spending 80 bucks.


 
fuck wasting money on ice or any other similar product. Find a place online that sells cheap bulk BCAAs . .  you dont need em flavoured


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## AKIRA (Feb 15, 2010)

So I am drinking chalky water?


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## theCaptn' (Feb 15, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> So I am drinking chalky water?


 
buy a bottle of lemon or lime juice to flavour



GICH!


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## fightbackhxc21 (Feb 17, 2010)

iBCAA's by PP are great to buy. So pure and clean you can barely taste them in water.... very high quality stuff.


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## ajpullekins (Mar 16, 2010)

agree with the PP comment...iBCAAs are amazing


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## AKIRA (Mar 24, 2010)

Ok so I got some ICE...and its not powder.  They are pills.  And there is no direction label.

Here is a pic/item of the shit I got...
Xtreme Formulations ICE Plus 375 Capsules - Best Prices on Supplements + Reviews & Ratings


It has same same stuff and more.  The serving size if 15 capsules!  Jesus, do you take them all in one sitting?


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## AKIRA (Mar 25, 2010)

Hell, I dont even know if I should take these with juice, food, or on an empty stomach.


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## jcar1016 (Mar 25, 2010)

AKIRA said:


> Hell, I dont even know if I should take these with juice, food, or on an empty stomach.


Dont know bro but I have to say I dont get the whole BCAA shit anyway why supplent with bcaa if your getting in your daily goal of whole proteins whats the point?


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## user19 (Mar 25, 2010)

Do you guys use BCAA;s all year around ?

- Or would you say they are more preferable when you are in calorrie defecit,.. cutting?


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## 68 firebird (Mar 26, 2010)

I use them all year round.  I"m either bulking or cutting all year.  Either way it's either priming me for growth or perserving what I've gained.
C


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## Rucker (Apr 15, 2010)

fightbackhxc21 said:


> iBCAA's by PP are great to buy. So pure and clean you can barely taste them in water.... very high quality stuff.



Bump for the Tax Return Sale, great deals on everything including the iBCAA's which are 10% off.


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## gopro (Apr 15, 2010)

klc9100 said:


> are the bcaa's that come in protein powders enough, or do you guys take other bcaa supplements also.  if so, can you make any recommendations.



I find that although there are plenty of BCAA's in protein powders that I feel better, look fuller, have more energy, and recover faster when I use BCAA's on an empty stomach several times per day. Been doing this for almost 10 years now and would never change that. During times of caloric restriction I rely even more heavily on BCAA's.


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## Rucker (Apr 15, 2010)

gopro said:


> I find that although there are plenty of BCAA's in protein powders that I feel better, look fuller, have more energy, and recover faster when I use BCAA's on an empty stomach several times per day. Been doing this for almost 10 years now and would never change that. During times of caloric restriction I rely even more heavily on BCAA's.



From my understanding BCAA's don't work the same in your body if taken with food.


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## gopro (Apr 16, 2010)

Rucker said:


> From my understanding BCAA's don't work the same in your body if taken with food.



Which is precisely why I use them separately from food/shakes.


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