# Texas Hold'em Journal



## Rocco32 (Apr 13, 2006)

Alright, this is not a work out journal. This is to keep a journal of my gambling since I'm so freaking addicted  Mostly I play online though I do go and do tournaments about 1-2 times a month. I won the last tournament I played (it was the third one). 

I just want to keep a record of what I'm doing, winning and losing starting today. My goal......and don't laugh......is to make enough to live on eventually. There are definately people who do it and do it successfully. I've been doing a lot of reading and a lot more playing. I haven't been doing too bad, just need to control my patience more and keep learning strategies, pot odds and outs better. 

I play at Ultimatebet.com and Pokerstars.com . Mostly at Pokerstars now and mostly cash games. Every now and then I'll do a tourney. 

Money in the account as of right now-

Pokerstars- $130
Ultimatebet- $0

Right now the goal is to play about 1 hour everyday at the $.50-$1 cash games and when I'm up about $10-$20 I'll quit. I do well the first hour because I'm patient and more focused, after that or after I've won a bit I start to get sloppy and then I'll lose. I started this strategy on Monday. 

Monday I won $20, Tue I won $30, Wed I won $20, this morning I lost $30  It was my own fault for not listening to my own advice. I was playing the .50-$1 games and was up about $25. However I still had about 50 minutes until I needed to leave for work and the table I was at was dissolving with no other .50-$1 tables available. So I jumped into a $1-$2 game and started playing badly. Lesson learned? We'll see


----------



## tucker01 (Apr 13, 2006)

What is your username at Pokerstars?

I'll give you a guess at mine


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 13, 2006)

IainDaniel said:
			
		

> What is your username at Pokerstars?
> 
> I'll give you a guess at mine


Oh wow! Are you Bootyliscous?!? LOL. 

I'm Serenity32. I guess you have the same username? How often do you play? How are you doing with it?


----------



## tucker01 (Apr 13, 2006)

I don't play too often.... I just usually check to see if friends are on and then I will play, or if one of the MSN's me to play.

Unlike you I don't have the balls to play for real money.  I have a monthly tournament with some friends for cash at one of our places, and that is about as much as I want to spend


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 13, 2006)

IainDaniel said:
			
		

> I don't play too often.... I just usually check to see if friends are on and then I will play, or if one of the MSN's me to play.
> 
> Unlike you I don't have the balls to play for real money.  I have a monthly tournament with some friends for cash at one of our places, and that is about as much as I want to spend


Remember when I won $4,000 at blackjack and then lost it all along with an additional $2,000 of my own money?!? I wouldn't say I've got the balls, I'd say I'm lacking the judgement LOL.


----------



## tucker01 (Apr 13, 2006)

Yeah well I lost $120,000  LOL.......oh wait that was play money


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 13, 2006)

If you are serious about tracking how you are doing, the best way is to get Poker Tracker.  It will give you a breakdown on how much you are making an hour as well as show you leaks in your game (if you know how to interpret the data).  It also lets you track the way your opponents play.  It really is a must if you play seriously on the internet.

www.PokerTracker.com


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 13, 2006)

IainDaniel said:
			
		

> Yeah well I lost $120,000  LOL.......oh wait that was play money


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 13, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> If you are serious about tracking how you are doing, the best way is to get Poker Tracker.  It will give you a breakdown on how much you are making an hour as well as show you leaks in your game (if you know how to interpret the data).  It also lets you track the way your opponents play.  It really is a must if you play seriously on the internet.
> 
> www.PokerTracker.com


Cool! Does it cost money? I can't click on it while I'm at work but I'll check it out when I get home. This sounds like it'd be very helpful...thank you.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 13, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> Cool! Does it cost money? I can't click on it while I'm at work but I'll check it out when I get home. This sounds like it'd be very helpful...thank you.



I think you can download the trial version for free and it allows you to load in about 1000 hands.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 13, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> I think you can download the trial version for free and it allows you to load in about 1000 hands.


It says the dowload is corrupted. It won't run for me


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 13, 2006)

Weird, I'd e-mail him.  He usually has pretty good support.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 14, 2006)

Alright, I've got it now Neil. Thanks. Now I need to go to college to learn how to use it LOL!!!


----------



## gwcaton (Apr 14, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> It really is a must if you play seriously on the internet.
> 
> www.PokerTracker.com



Is this what they call spyware ? If so thats why I quit playing. I was one of the few that played using my brain/knowledge/understanding of the game and I won, but just not often enough because of the "cheaters".
You could always tell some one was "scanning" because there would be a little white trail across the screen. 
But , Good Luck Pardner !  Hope to see ya on TV


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 14, 2006)

gwcaton said:
			
		

> Is this what they call spyware ? If so thats why I quit playing. I was one of the few that played using my brain/knowledge/understanding of the game and I won, but just not often enough because of the "cheaters".
> You could always tell some one was "scanning" because there would be a little white trail across the screen.
> But , Good Luck Pardner !  Hope to see ya on TV


I don't think so Gary. I don't see it as any way of cheating, a regular player would write all this info down and figure it up anyway, this is helping with stats. Your not seeing anything on another persons computer or seeing cards that haven't been shown as I understand it.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 14, 2006)

gwcaton said:
			
		

> Is this what they call spyware ? If so thats why I quit playing. I was one of the few that played using my brain/knowledge/understanding of the game and I won, but just not often enough because of the "cheaters".
> You could always tell some one was "scanning" because there would be a little white trail across the screen.
> But , Good Luck Pardner !  Hope to see ya on TV



This makes no sense at all.  It's not spyware.  Spyware is something that installs itself on your machine, collects information and sends it out to businesses, advertisers or anyone that can use that info.

There really is no way to cheat at internet poker.  Poker is a game of information.  This program simply parses out your hand history files and gives you statistics about your play.  It can be used to improve your game but it won't make decisions for you or cheat for you.  After you get lots of hands in your hand history you can notice that on average you lose $ when you play QJ or KT from early position.  That is just information.  It's information that can help improve your game.  You can decide to fold those hands in early position... or you can choose to ignore the stats and not plug up the leak in your game.

And there is no little white line on other peoples machine because of this.  This program does nothing to other peoples machines.  It simply reads the text files that are created on your own machine.  Other than that, it doesn't really interact with the poker software at all.  It is not cheating.  It is simply keeping track of statistics for you.  All the poker software companies know about it and none of them will ban you for using it.  This is one of the main reasons these companies even offer hand histories.  They know people are parsing them out.

You still need to know what you are doing.  This doesn't turn a losing player into a winning one.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 17, 2006)

Hey Rocco ... 

My first suggestion with you goal is to learn bankroll management.  If you still have the $130 bankroll, you should be playing at the $10 tables.  It keeps you from playing with scared money.  

You should also buyin at the max or at the very least, have the equivilanet of the largest stack at the table.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 17, 2006)

Here is a blurb from a forum I visit:
To understand why Bankroll Managment is so important, you have to understand how you should approach the game of poker. 

Poker is a long term game, it is not AA v KK getting cracked on the river. It is a game of thousands of iterations of these hands. Throughout the carreer of a poker player, you will see aces more than your fare share and though you will lose with them from time to time, you will win a lot more. Everytime you play aces properly, it is a positive investment even though you may lose money on any given occurence. It's not a game of, "Mah gaht dahm aces got cracked a-gaht-damn-gain! Gah!" 

Poker is a horrible short term game, you can be ontop of the world one day and drowning in the depths of the river valley the next. It's a game of swings. You WILL lose at some point, it's a statistical certainty. It is the undefinable "luck" that people are so quick to blame. So you need to make sure you have enough money in your online bank so that the loses don't phase you. You need a fat enough roll to never go bust becuase of a bad streak and to help prevent tilt. For me (I play 100-200NL cash games on Empire) 100 bucks just isn't what it used to be from a poker perspective. Some days, I start out real slow and lose 2 buyins, but I don't tilt becuase the money and results don't get in the way towards playing great poker. My bankroll is too solid to be phased by a bad week, therefore my play is not phased by a bad week. 

You can find the accurate numbers for a proper bankroll all over this great forum of ours. But I like 15-30 buyins for No Limit (Maybe even more for 6max), 300BB for limit and 15+ buyins for tournies (More for MTTs). If you play a little from column A (limit) and a little from columb B (Tournies or NL) a good rule of thumb for your bankroll size is never risk more than 5-10% of it on any given day. 

The numbers might be a little off here or there but the idea is: If you're never risking much of your bankroll from day to day, you allow yourself to play your game risk-free. Losing money won't drive you to suicide *cough* And your back should never be against the wall. 

Poker is a game of positive longterm investments, you want to make sure that you have enough money to stick around and reap the rewards of these investments.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 17, 2006)

Bankroll is also dependent on your play style.... which defines your average win rate (BB/hr) and your standard deviation.

High standard deviation = you need a bigger bankroll
High win rate = smaller bankroll

It is possible to have both a high standard deviation and a high win rate (skilled loose aggressive players like Gus Hansen)

Tight players are going to be able to have a smaller bankroll just because they have a smaller standard deviation than a looser player.  They don't play as many hands and can avoid swings.

Of course if you have a negative win rate, no bankroll in the world is going to stop you from losing over the long run.

"The Theory of Poker" has a formula based on win rate, standard deviation and percentage chance of ever going broke (which you should set at around 0.1 - 0.01%)  to calculate how big of a bankroll you need... I don't remember what it is though.  Personally I feel comfortable in no limit at around 20 buy-ins.  I don't think I have ever been down more than 10 buy-ins (usually bad streaks are < 5 buy-ins) but it is always nice to have a bunch of buy-ins left over.  I don't know if I would play the same if I only had 5 buy-ins left (even though I know I should)  If you hit a down streak of 10 buy-ins, there is probably something wrong with the way you are playing.

It is impossible to have zero chance of going broke.  It is still a game of chance and even if you have a bankroll that enables you a 0.001% chance of ever going broke.... it is still a possibility (although remote)


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 17, 2006)

Agreed ... I just brought it up because Rocco's current bankroll is $130 and he's playing at a $100 table.  It may be just how I play, but I do agree with the 'playing scared' theory.  Since you have only this _amount of money_, the gambles you should be taking according the pots odds and such you don't take because you don't want to loose your roll.  I've been there and have since gone down in table limits even though I was able to beat the .25 and .50 tables.  I did find that I was playing with much more caution because of the bankroll situation.

Just some food for thought.


----------



## musclepump (Apr 17, 2006)

I play online poker. Make more money there than I do working the office job.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 17, 2006)

what limits doy ou play at MP?

I think if I could get over the enjoyment and not playing while waiting to hit the bars, I'd do very well.  I find myself making up the preparty night sessions the following days.


----------



## musclepump (Apr 17, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> what limits doy ou play at MP?
> 
> I think if I could get over the enjoyment and not playing while waiting to hit the bars, I'd do very well. I find myself making up the preparty night sessions the following days.


 
.50/1 NL ring games and MTTs. I make most of my money on Tournaments.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 17, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> Hey Rocco ...
> 
> My first suggestion with you goal is to learn bankroll management.  If you still have the $130 bankroll, you should be playing at the $10 tables.  It keeps you from playing with scared money.
> 
> You should also buyin at the max or at the very least, have the equivilanet of the largest stack at the table.


What is the $10 tables? Is that $10 blinds? I haven't gone past $1-$2 blind games.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 17, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> What is the $10 tables? Is that $10 blinds? I haven't gone past $1-$2 blind games.



$10 buy-ins... so probably $0.05/0.10 blinds


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 17, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> $10 buy-ins... so probably $0.05/0.10 blinds


Oh, I got it. So I've been playing over my head as far as my bankroll is concerned? Nice to know, thanks guys!!


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 18, 2006)

I played the $10 buy-ins this morning for about 90 minutes. Started with $15, and ended with $15 LOL!!! A bit aggravating. I try and only play good starting hands but it's so frustrating when you fold 10 hands, finally have a playing hand and when the flop comes it didn't help you one bit!!! 

I was doing a competition the last night and had pocket Aces. The flop came up 7, 2, A. I had about 4,000 chips and another person with about 3,905 chips went all in. So I went all in. He had 3 tens, I had 3 Aces. The River flipped another ten!


----------



## musclepump (Apr 18, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> The flop came up 7, 2, A. I had about 4,000 chips and another person with about 3,905 chips went all in. So I went all in. He had 3 tens, I had 3 Aces. The River flipped another ten!




How does he get rips off of a blank flop? 

Did you mean to say he hit his trip on the turn, and quad on the river?


----------



## Dale Mabry (Apr 18, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> what limits doy ou play at MP?
> 
> I think if I could get over the enjoyment and not playing while waiting to hit the bars, I'd do very well.  I find myself making up the preparty night sessions the following days.




I do the exact same thing, throw on some tunes and play a few tourneys, I am up quite a bit.  I play on Pacific Poker, there are a ton of retards on there that just seem to be giving me their money.  I only play tourneys, though.

I have a buddy who spent the whole winter in Vegas, making all of his money playing online and in the casinos, more online than anything, though.

I heard on the David Lee Roth show some guy telling how alot of people are using bots to cheat online.  This is why I play at a loose site.


----------



## musclepump (Apr 18, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> I do the exact same thing, throw on some tunes and play a few tourneys, I am up quite a bit.  I play on Pacific Poker, there are a ton of retards on there that just seem to be giving me their money.  I only play tourneys, though.
> 
> I have a buddy who spent the whole winter in Vegas, making all of his money playing online and in the casinos, more online than anything, though.
> 
> I heard on the David Lee Roth show some guy telling how alot of people are using bots to cheat online.  This is why I play at a loose site.



From what I've heard about how bots work, I think they'd be inefficient. They don't take into account bluffing; so if anything, you'll only find them at Fixed Limit tables where lying is a minimal occurence.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 18, 2006)

What's a bot?


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 18, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> I played the $10 buy-ins this morning for about 90 minutes. Started with $15, and ended with $15 LOL!!! A bit aggravating. I try and only play good starting hands but it's so frustrating when you fold 10 hands, finally have a playing hand and when the flop comes it didn't help you one bit!!!



The flop will miss you most of the time.  But it will also miss your opponent most of the time too.  This is where the aggressive part of tight aggressive comes into play.

Example... blinds $0.50/1

You are in mid position with AcQc.  One early position limper and you raise to $3 to isolate.  Limper calls and the pot is $4.50.

The flop comes out 5c 9h 2s.  Limper checks to you.  The flop missed you completely but it doesn't matter.  Here you have to fire another bet at the pot... around $3.  This may seem like throwing away money when you could just take a free card but what you are really doing is dramatically increasing your chances of winning the hand.  A $3 bet into a $4.5 gives you 3:2 odds that he will fold and give up the hand...  He will only hit a flop about 30% of the time which means he will likely only call around 30% of the time.  You have to remember you probably have the best hand.  He probably limped in with JT, QJ, KQ, or even worse.  He may have hit but not likely and since you are playing tight and only playing the best hands, he will be hard pressed to call fearing AA-TT... or he might suspect AK, AQ, AJ... which probably has him beat anyway.  Either way he will only call a small percentage of the time making this $3 bet to win $4.5 more than worth it.  Now if he comes back and check raises, well you are done with this hand.  Your bet bought the information you needed to get out and you can safely fold knowing he likely has a 9, a smaller pair or a set.  In the long run a bet here is a positive expected value bet.  Even if he calls, you have 6 outs on the turn to hit an A or Q.  Also if the turn is a club, it gives you a flush draw.  These outs aren't really a lot but add them up with the fold equity you get from throwing out a bet and the bet ends up looking that much better.  (if you pick up the flush draw, he will likely check to you and you can check and see the river for free - and he won't put you on a runner, runner flush)

Now what if the flop was Kc 9h 2s.  This is even more reason to bet.  If it misses your opponent (or even if he hits with a 9), he will have a hard time calling thinking that you must have hit the K... the above reasons still apply even with a scarey card on the flop.  It is scarey to him too, he will let you know soon enough if he has a K.

In both situations, if he bets first you can get out of the hand cheaply given you were the aggressor preflop.

This is why you need to raise preflop to try and get the hand 2-3 handed at most.  You can't do a follow up bet into 4+ people and expect everyone to fold.  With that many people in the pot, if you miss, you have to get out of the pot or check it around if you can.

Also if you don't do these follow up bets, your play becomes too predictable.  If you bet 1/2 - 2/3 of the pot in these situations whether or not you hit the flop, it will keep your opponents guessing and they will be much more likely to pay you off when they hit their second pair or if they have a small pocket pair and they think you are just betting your overcards.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 18, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> What's a bot?



Programs that people have created to play poker on these sites.  They tend to be very text book in their play and unimaginative.  Not very hard to beat but they are quite tight and like any weak tight opponent... you just avoid getting in hands with them.  Personally I think a perfect table would have 4-5 bots and then 2-3 live crappy loose players.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Apr 18, 2006)

A bot can play any way you program it, but it is not very good against the bluff since you wouldn't really want to program that in with no way to set criteria.  I imagine that you could set it up based on how long it takes for the player to act, but I don't know how intricate you can get.

A loose site is harder to use a bot on because the players are less predictable.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 18, 2006)

musclepump said:
			
		

> How does he get rips off of a blank flop?
> 
> Did you mean to say he hit his trip on the turn, and quad on the river?


Sorry, that 7 on the flop was supposed to be a 10. Then he hit the quad on the river.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 18, 2006)

Thanks for all that info Neil! Very helpful. I'm reading books and I'm constantly learning right now, but in a way it kinda confuses or scares my playing a bit more also.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 18, 2006)

My favorite hand ever...

Limit game... I had 3s 5s on the big blind.  4 people limp in and the button raises.  The pot has 7.5 bets in it now with 4 people left to call so I am getting 11.5:1 to call so of course I call.  Everyone calls so pot is ~12 bets.

Flop comes down Ts 2h 4h.  Open ended straight draw.  I check.  It checks to the raiser (button) who bets.  I call.  2 others call.  Now 16 bets.

Turn is Ks (Ts 2h 4h) so I picked up a flush draw too.  Still have 3 opponents.  I check.  It checks to the button who bets.  I call again and the other 2 fold so we are heads up.  Pot is now 20 small bets.

River is a Th (Ks Ts 2h 4h)... this doesn't help me at all.  I missed the straight and the flush and now have the worst possible hand with a 5 high.  So what do I do?  

I bet   I figured for 2 small bets, I would take a stab at this pot with 20 bets in it.  It only has to work 10% of the time to make it a profitable bet.  And look at that board.  I called the flop that had a ten on it and 2 hearts.  Now the river is a 3rd heart and it was another ten making trips for anyone holding a ten.  We are heads up so I only have to get him to fold.  This is an extremely scarey board for him.  He folded.  He looked at the board and figured I was either calling with my ten or a flush draw.  What else could I have here that would make sense that I would play that way?  Not much and going from calling to betting, sure makes it look like I hit something.

It was worth the one bet for me to bluff here.  He will either fold and give me the pot, raise and I can fold pretty easy or call and I have to show down my 5 high making me look like a stupid loose aggressive player and ensuring that all my value bets get called for the rest of the night.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 18, 2006)

Rocco ... instead of playing the $100 (max buyin) tables, go to the $10 or $5 tables.  You'll find it easier to learn the game when you not worried about losing your roll.  If you play a decent game, it's pretty easy money at these levels.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 18, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> My favorite hand ever...
> 
> Limit game... I had 3s 5s on the big blind.  4 people limp in and the button raises.  The pot has 7.5 bets in it now with 4 people left to call so I am getting 11.5:1 to call so of course I call.  Everyone calls so pot is ~12 bets.
> 
> ...


LOL, Nice!!!


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 18, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> Rocco ... instead of playing the $100 (max buyin) tables, go to the $10 or $5 tables.  You'll find it easier to learn the game when you not worried about losing your roll.  If you play a decent game, it's pretty easy money at these levels.


Thanks Naturaltan, I'll take that advice! I did that this morning and it was much more stress free LOL.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 19, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> Thanks Naturaltan, I'll take that advice! I did that this morning and it was much more stress free LOL.



I'm not sure who good you are or if you are just learning, but if you play ABC poker on these tables, you'll make $$s.  You'll find that at this level, someone calling a raise doesn't always mean the have gold.  I don't do it often, but I have called all in raises with Js/Qs and have had overcards show and still win.  It seems that at the $10 table, some folks are ready to lose their stack with Ax suited.  Although it stings when they do hit with your trips/str8 ... if you were to actually keep track, you'll find you're winning much more than you lose against such coin tosses.  

So ... how did you fair this morning?


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 19, 2006)

Although it's hard to make big $$ at the $10 tables, you can make money.  This last run, after a party night, I was down to $20.  I have built it back up to $150.  Before this run, I had made another $200.  Now, I play for the entertainment and challenge, so I don't always follow the bankroll manangement idea.  I have decided to see how far I can actually take my playing ability.  So, next stop will be at the $25 tables (.25 bb) when I hit $250.  I think I can do that in the next couple of weeks.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 19, 2006)

So how long does it take you to win the money at $10 table? I've been playing some this morning and I'm up $16 so far.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 19, 2006)

Not sure ... I play maybe an hour or two a day.  I play four tables so I'm usually able to double up on a couple.


----------



## musclepump (Apr 19, 2006)

Just for thought purposes, you'll hit the flop 1/3rd of the time. Same for your opponent. So pressure him


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 19, 2006)

Good advice mp.  The one thing I've taken from forums that I find helpful is when you can, make your opponents make difficult decisions.

These are things I do at the $10 tables (take it for what it's worth)
: if no one seems interested in the pot on the river, I fire out a pot size bet regardless of what I have.  More often than not, I'll take the pot down.  

3 bet (bet and reraise a raise) preflop/flop with a good hand.  With the correct read, you can do this with air, but you need a read.  I find the $10 players not willing to go to battle unless they have big pp 

c bet will often take down a pot after a preflop raise


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 19, 2006)

Where do you play NT?


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 19, 2006)

When bluffing on the flop, always take the texture of the flop into consideration as well as how many are in the pot.

If you raised with QQ preflop and got called in 3 places and the flop is AK8... don't bother bluffing at it from early position... just check and fold.  If you only have one opponent in the pot and he checks to you, that's a different story.  A bet here will probably get him to fold a king - but if you are called, it is time to give it up and check/fold on the turn and river.

With a flop like 9s Ts 7h, it is likely that this hit your opponent in some way, especially against multiple opponents.  If you bluff on this flop and get called you really don't know what it means.  This is a dangerous situation for hands like AK, AQ and you might be better off getting away from the hand or at least slowing down if your opponent is showing interest in sticking around.  He could be chasing a flush or a straight or he could easily have 2 pair (T9) or a set.  Or he could be on a straight draw with a pair (87 or 89).  There are lots of very playable hands that could have hit this flop (99, TT, 77, 2 spades, QJ, JT, T9, 98, 87, AT, A9)  Also be aware that if you have AK here, hitting a K on the turn gives QJ a straight.  With AQ hitting a Q gives KJ a straight.  Many people will call with these inside straight draws especially if they have overcards too giving them more outs.

With poker you have to mix it up.  If you bet at every flop no matter what it is after you raise, your opponent will quickly notice this and they will start reraising you with nothing just because they know you likely just have overcards and will fold.  Checking and folding with flops like 9s Ts 7h not only protects you from losing big hands to people drawing (or made hands) and lets you avoid difficult guessing situations when they call, it also shows your opponents that you don't just bluff at any flop.  After they notice you check and fold after you preflop raised, they will give you much more respect and will be more likely to fold when you do bluff on flops like Ks 6h 4d

If you never fold the best hand, you are playing too loose.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 19, 2006)

I just got a Straight Flush, 3-8 of spades. I've NEVER done that before!!! I'm up $11 right now.


----------



## Fitgirl70 (Apr 19, 2006)

Roc

I'm so glad you guys know what you're doing... 

the flop, the flip, the river, the see, the raise, the phone, the cup, the pen, the call.....   

I'd be someone you guys would want to play with...I have no clue when it comes to poker.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 19, 2006)

Fitgirl70 said:
			
		

> Roc
> 
> I'm so glad you guys know what you're doing...
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, I want to play with you. And we could play poker too 

Actually I think they know what they're doing better than me. I'm still trying to catch on!


----------



## Fitgirl70 (Apr 19, 2006)

Oh, I walked right into that one, didn't I?


----------



## P-funk (Apr 19, 2006)

i hate gambling.  just something about losing my money that doesn't sit well with me.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 19, 2006)

Fitgirl70 said:
			
		

> Oh, I walked right into that one, didn't I?


Yep...Miss innocent


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 19, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> i hate gambling.  just something about losing my money that doesn't sit well with me.


Well Patrick, we kinda try and NOT lose money...


----------



## Fitgirl70 (Apr 19, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> Miss innocent




You're not supposed to tell everyone my "real" name


----------



## P-funk (Apr 19, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> Well Patrick, we kinda try and NOT lose money...




lol, that is the plan.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 19, 2006)

Fitgirl70 said:
			
		

> You're not supposed to tell everyone my "real" name


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 19, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> lol, that is the plan.


Haha! Unfortunately on some unconcious level I haven't figured that as the plan yet!!


----------



## tucker01 (Apr 19, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> i hate gambling. just something about losing my money that doesn't sit well with me.


 
Ditto!

Got a Casino in my City and have been there once, and that was when it first opened


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 19, 2006)

IainDaniel said:
			
		

> Ditto!
> 
> Got a Casino in my City and have been there once, and that was when it first opened


Alright, I'll tolerate none of this blasphemy in this journal!! Talking about a casino IN YOUR TOWN and you don't go.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 20, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> Where do you play NT?


Pokerstars ... I have the same name there.  I usually play around 4:00 - 5:30pm.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 20, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> i hate gambling.  just something about losing my money that doesn't sit well with me.



For me, it's just a form of entertainment.  And I know of no other form of entertainment where I can put spend money, yet get more back.   I am glad there are so many out there playing on line that watch poker on TV and try to imitate the celebs.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 20, 2006)

Fitgirl70 said:
			
		

> Roc
> 
> I'm so glad you guys know what you're doing...
> 
> ...



Boy ... you made that WAY to easy.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 20, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> Pokerstars ... I have the same name there.  I usually play around 4:00 - 5:30pm.


Ok, that's where I play. I'll look for you. My screenname is Serenity32. I'm on whenever I can get a chance.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 20, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> For me, it's just a form of entertainment.  And I know of no other form of entertainment where I can put spend money, yet get more back.   I am glad there are so many out there playing on line that watch poker on TV and try to imitate the celebs.


Same here. Though as much as I enjoy it I'd like to be able and make at least as much as I would from a part time job within the next 2 years.

I have a $100 poker tournament this Saturday after my tattoo. I'm excited and a bit nervous, these are supposedly pretty good players (on the amatuer scene).


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 20, 2006)

The buyin is $100??

You better be pretty confident of your skills to put out that kind of cash. 

There are several I know who make a few extra $s playing online poker.  From some of the hand histories I've seen, there are still many in the upper leagues willing to 'gamble' on silly hands.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 20, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> The buyin is $100??
> 
> You better be pretty confident of your skills to put out that kind of cash.
> 
> There are several I know who make a few extra $s playing online poker.  From some of the hand histories I've seen, there are still many in the upper leagues willing to 'gamble' on silly hands.


I won a $50 buy in last time I played. I do pretty well in when I actually see the people. Besides, for $100 I get a whole night of fun and entertainment even if I don't win. 

I'm amazed at what hands people will play. I was in one hand with like A/K and someone raised me. I called and it ended up he entered with 2/6o!!! AND HE WON.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 20, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> I won a $50 buy in last time I played. I do pretty well in when I actually see the people. Besides, for $100 I get a whole night of fun and entertainment even if I don't win.
> 
> I'm amazed at what hands people will play. I was in one hand with like A/K and someone raised me. I called and it ended up he entered with 2/6o!!! AND HE WON.



Well, let us know how it turns out.

The 62o are the kinds of hands we LOVE people to play.   I try to tell people that when they are beat by such a hand, to be kind and say 'good hand' ... not berate the guy for playing the hand.  It's people that play these hands that make it so easy for guys like us that don't ... especially in a raised pot.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 20, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> Well, let us know how it turns out.
> 
> The 62o are the kinds of hands we LOVE people to play.   I try to tell people that when they are beat by such a hand, to be kind and say 'good hand' ... not berate the guy for playing the hand.  It's people that play these hands that make it so easy for guys like us that don't ... especially in a raised pot.


Your right. And I always congratulate them. The people that berate people for making stupid plays piss me off. We need them to make those stupid plays so we can win LOL. They're always scaring them off.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 20, 2006)

My pet peeve is when people start blaming the software/site for the cards that come out.  Online, you play MANY more hands than live.  So the chances of seeing all kinds of card combos increases significantly.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 20, 2006)

Yep, though I think it's so funny when they think it's a conspiracy or the site is out to get them. They go on tilt fairly easily!!


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 20, 2006)

some do pretty easily ... and then you lick your lips hoping you get a decent hand to call their next all in


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 21, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> some do pretty easily ... and then you lick your lips hoping you get a decent hand to call their next all in


That's what today is about LOL.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 21, 2006)

Alright, update. Lisa wanted to go out after my classes last night with her friend and me and get drunk. Something we do about...well....very rarely. So I said alright. We go out and then come back to the apt. We're supposed to keep drinking which I do but Lisa and her friend pass out on the couch. 

So I go to the computer to play online. I made about $50!!!

This morning I get on and there are crazy idiot people playing. I'm getting insane hands like 4 of a kind and full houses left and right and they keep betting high! (I'm in the $1/$2) So I'm making like $30-$40 a HAND!!! Wish it was like this everyday LOL.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 21, 2006)

Alright, played for about 2 hours and walked away with an extra $82. For me that's very good. I was playing 2 tables at the same time and I think I was more patient this time and waiting for hands.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 21, 2006)

How much do you buyin to these tables with?

Patience is good ... playing too many hands when trying to get the hang of the game isn't always good.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 21, 2006)

What time in the morning do you go on?

I did the same thing once ... I was up early so I slipped down to play on the $100 tables (.5/1) and hit a full house with Q10 suited.  I made almost $230


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 21, 2006)

I've just been playing during the day, about to get on now. I haven't gone to work since Tue  

I had 4 aces earlier. And I made quite a bit off of it, they kept trying to bluff me off of it. Right now I play the $100 table. I find I do better there than the lower limits.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 21, 2006)

I'll be home in an hour ... I'll look for ya.  
Good luck!


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 21, 2006)

Thanks, hope to see you.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 21, 2006)

I just won a $76 pot with a straight flush!!! 2-6. He had a straight thru 8 I think but it wasn't flushed. So awesome!!!


----------



## JerseyDevil (Apr 21, 2006)

Rock... listen to yourself. Maybe I'm outta line here, but gambling can be an addiction, and it sounds like you're half way there.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 22, 2006)

JerseyDevil said:
			
		

> Rock... listen to yourself. Maybe I'm outta line here, but gambling can be an addiction, and it sounds like you're half way there.


Hey Jersey, I've no doubt I'm addicted  How are you doing buddy, it's been awhile!

If your talking about missing work it wasn't for poker however...that was just what I did for a few hours out of the day. And Jersey, you know your never out of line with me. Say whatever you want. I do know I need to be careful because I'm so compulsive by nature.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 22, 2006)

Got to play with  NaturalTan a bit last night. Good player, was doing much better than me by the time I left.

Natural- I get what your saying about sitting down with the max now. I usually play Limit Hold'em and the Max you can sit down with is like $10,000. LOL. But I noticed on the No Limit they actually have limits and I see what your talking about with doubling up now. I was confused earlier  Thanks.


----------



## JerseyDevil (Apr 22, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> Hey Jersey, I've no doubt I'm addicted  How are you doing buddy, it's been awhile!
> 
> If your talking about missing work it wasn't for poker however...that was just what I did for a few hours out of the day. And Jersey, you know your never out of line with me. Say whatever you want. I do know I need to be careful because I'm so compulsive by nature.


Hey Buddy!  It has been awhile.  I do know your compulsive nature, hence my concern.  But on the otherhand, you'll probably get bored with it soon, and move on to something else .

You still doing the powerlifting thing?


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 23, 2006)

JerseyDevil said:
			
		

> Hey Buddy!  It has been awhile.  I do know your compulsive nature, hence my concern.  But on the otherhand, you'll probably get bored with it soon, and move on to something else .
> 
> You still doing the powerlifting thing?


LOL, you  may be right!!

No, I kinda got away from powerlifter for awhile. I did 2 competitions though and followed through with them.

I haven't been in the gym much lately, lack of motivation plus I keep getting the tattoo on my back worked on and I can't w/o for a few days afterwards. What about you? How's the elbow doing?


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 23, 2006)

*$100 Tournament*

Did the $100 Tournament last night. 10 people showed up, I guess to much money for the regulars that go there. Top 2 places paid out and I came in 2nd


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 24, 2006)

so ... how much did you win?  

I just saw that you were playing limit tables.  How do you find that?

You did leave in a hurry Friday ... did Lisa suddenly show up?


----------



## Fitgirl70 (Apr 24, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> Did the $100 Tournament last night. 10 people showed up, I guess to much money for the regulars that go there. Top 2 places paid out and I came in 2nd




Does that mean I get my new pair of shoes??


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 24, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> so ... how much did you win?
> 
> I just saw that you were playing limit tables.  How do you find that?
> 
> You did leave in a hurry Friday ... did Lisa suddenly show up?


I won $400. I really wanted the #1 slot though LOL. I really need to work on my Heads up game but I have no idea how to effectively play heads up.

I do much better on the Limit tables than I do in no limit. I think in no limit, I'm the idiot you keep taking money from because I go on tilt LOL!!! When I do Limit, I like the $1/$2 or the .50/$1 tables.

Yep, Lisa walked in  I'll probably be on a bit tonight around 5pm my time but I've also got a paper I need to work on tonight as well so I don't know how long I'll be on. 

I can't wait for this semester to be over, I plan to devote a lot of time to online poker!!!

I have another tournament on this Saturday ($25 buy in) and another the next Saturday ($50 buy in).


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 24, 2006)

Fitgirl70 said:
			
		

> Does that mean I get my new pair of shoes??


Oh yes!!!!! And you need to model them for me....just the shoes 

Here's a big  to my sexy hot good luck girl!!!


----------



## Fitgirl70 (Apr 25, 2006)

Why I'd love to model the new black 5 inch stilletos for your darlin'


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 25, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> I won $400. I really wanted the #1 slot though LOL. I really need to work on my Heads up game but I have no idea how to effectively play heads up.
> 
> I do much better on the Limit tables than I do in no limit. I think in no limit, I'm the idiot you keep taking money from because I go on tilt LOL!!! When I do Limit, I like the $1/$2 or the .50/$1 tables.
> 
> ...



Are these tourneys online?

And the reason why we can make money is again presented by NT:

I'm on the $25.  Being that the big blind is .25, I raise from the SB to $1.75 - why?  I have the Aces.  I get one caller.  K88 comes on the flop.  Well I say to myself, being that this is the $25 table, if this joker has a king, he'll call my bet, so I bet the pot.  He calls.  Hmmmm ... a 2 comes up.  I bet the pot thinking I'll just take it down now ... he calls.  Hmmmm ... did I get caught by pocket kings?  Blah ... this is the $25 tables ... so cautionly check, he bets only $3 into the pot ...  ... well, I now know I have him, I put him all in.  He quickly calls!  He had two pair with a K9 (a 9 fell on the river).    It was suited of course ...   I love these suited flush chasers.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 25, 2006)

Fitgirl70 said:
			
		

> Why I'd love to model the new black 5 inch stilletos for your darlin'


Mmmm.... Now I have an image in my mind I NEVER want to forget!!!!!


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 25, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> Are these tourneys online?
> 
> And the reason why we can make money is again presented by NT:
> 
> I'm on the $25.  Being that the big blind is .25, I raise from the SB to $1.75 - why?  I have the Aces.  I get one caller.  K88 comes on the flop.  Well I say to myself, being that this is the $25 table, if this joker has a king, he'll call my bet, so I bet the pot.  He calls.  Hmmmm ... a 2 comes up.  I bet the pot thinking I'll just take it down now ... he calls.  Hmmmm ... did I get caught by pocket kings?  Blah ... this is the $25 tables ... so cautionly check, he bets only $3 into the pot ...  ... well, I now know I have him, I put him all in.  He quickly calls!  He had two pair with a K9 (a 9 fell on the river).    It was suited of course ...   I love these suited flush chasers.


No, I actually go to these tournaments. Different people host them. 

Nice job NT! However I had a bad experience this morning. I'm dealt A/7 on the big blind. Everyone checks. Flop comes up A/7/4. Again everyone checks so I bet $1. ($10 table). Everyone folds except the Small Blind who raises me $1. I call. Turn card is A. He makes a small bet...I have full house so I put him all in, we both have about $14. He calls. The River pops up an 8. No worries right? His cards turn over and he has A/8. I've got full house with aces over 7's, he has the same thing only over 8's. I left then because I woulda gone on tilt LOL.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 25, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> No, I actually go to these tournaments. Different people host them.
> 
> Nice job NT! However I had a bad experience this morning. I'm dealt A/7 on the big blind. Everyone checks. Flop comes up A/7/4. Again everyone checks so I bet $1. ($10 table). Everyone folds except the Small Blind who raises me $1. I call. Turn card is A. He makes a small bet...I have full house so I put him all in, we both have about $14. He calls. The River pops up an 8. No worries right? His cards turn over and he has A/8. I've got full house with aces over 7's, he has the same thing only over 8's. I left then because I woulda gone on tilt LOL.



Bad beat but I think I might have played this a little differently.  How many people limped in preflop?  With A7 on the big blind, I may have raised preflop - especially if there weren't many people in the pot.  By everyone just limping in preflop, they are telling you they don't have big hands.  A raise here could have forced most of them out.  Plus if you hit the ace, they are going to have to put you on a real hand (AK-AJ) when you bet the flop.  This will make it harder for hands like A9 and A8 to call the flop bet (assuming the preflop raise doesn't fold them out).  It also gives any early position limper that limped in with something like AA or KK a chance to re-raise which defines their hand and allows you to get out of the hand.

This changes the flop play too.  Since you raised preflop, he is going to expect a big kicker and may fold on the flop...  *He is only raising the flop here because everyone limped in preflop so he is trying to get a feel for whether or not his kicker is good.*  If you had raised preflop, he would likely have just called the flop (or folded).  This is good because it allows you to get a better feel for his hand.  You have 2 pair.  If he just calls you know you likely have him beat.  If he raises, you know he could have made trip 4s.  If you had raised preflop, you would know he wasn't raising the flop just on kicker strength (since he didn't show any strength preflop) - this just gives you a little more information on his hand.

The way the hand played out, I would have likely lost my stack too... or maybe I would have won a small pot preflop or on the flop, but I would have given him more opportunity to fold.

Of course if there were a lot of limpers preflop, I may have ended up playing the hand the same way and checked preflop - raising out of position against a large field with a bad hand isn't really a good idea


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 25, 2006)

Thanks Neil. There were about 5 people who paid to see the flop. Normally I wouldn't go in with A/7o but since it was free to see the flop I did. 

I get what your saying and it makes sense, but it seems whenever I get a read on someone like that...say they're just checking my raises or whatever, I end up being slowplayed. Either that or the limits I'm playing people just don't fold. Does that make sense?


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 25, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> Thanks Neil. There were about 5 people who paid to see the flop. Normally I wouldn't go in with A/7o but since it was free to see the flop I did.
> 
> I get what your saying and it makes sense, but it seems whenever I get a read on someone like that...say they're just checking my raises or whatever, I end up being slowplayed. Either that or the limits I'm playing people just don't fold. Does that make sense?



yeah with 5 people in a raise isn't going to do much especially at those levels.  But then when you hit that flop with that many people in, I might push it a little harder... although that is still scary because of the set potential of that many limpers.  All in all, that would be a difficult hand to play.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 26, 2006)

Just a bad beat ... what you did was correct.  I think I would have played it the same way since you did not raise.  You also recognized that you might tilt after it and left.  If you really want to make poker a means of extra cash, you have to learn to let this go.  Move on.  This is where having a proper bankroll has helped me.  I got all my money in with the best hand and lost to a suckout ... oh well, I reload and get it back.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 26, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> Thanks Neil. There were about 5 people who paid to see the flop. Normally I wouldn't go in with A/7o but since it was free to see the flop I did.
> 
> I get what your saying and it makes sense, but it seems whenever I get a read on someone like that...say they're just checking my raises or whatever, I end up being slowplayed. Either that or the limits I'm playing people just don't fold. Does that make sense?



People will fold ... but what makes it great is exactly that they will stick around like the guy who gave you a bad beat.  You told him by betting that you have a good hand on the flop.  On the turn, you made it clear you had a hand you very pretty happy with, and this guy still called.  You had the nuts on the turn - and he still called!   The one thing I've taken from the forums is that you're likely to remember this because it was a bad beat, but not all the other times someone does the same thing and doesn't get the 3 outer on the river.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 26, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> People will fold ... but what makes it great is exactly that they will stick around like the guy who gave you a bad beat.  You told him by betting that you have a good hand on the flop.  On the turn, you made it clear you had a hand you very pretty happy with, and this guy still called.  You had the nuts on the turn - and he still called!   The one thing I've taken from the forums is that you're likely to remember this because it was a bad beat, but not all the other times someone does the same thing and doesn't get the 3 outer on the river.



On the other hand, Rocco's opponent didn't play it horribly either (well except for the preflop call)  But with A8 and nobody did a preflop raise, his play was reasonable especially when the turn gives him trips and on these tables.  Rocco played the hand passively.  No raise preflop, no reraise after his opponent raised on the flop.  The possibilities here for a big blind could be A2-A6 (5 hands with 8 ways to get each hand makes 40 different hands he could beat).  A7 (only 6 different ways he could have this hand) A8-A9 (2 hands = 16 hands he can't beat)  AT-AK are much less likely without the preflop raise.  So with 40 likely hands and 22 ways he could be beat (without going into sets), his play wasn't completely horrible.

It's hard to call it a bad beat when A8 beats A7.  He did have the better hand preflop and not a lot of reason to believe he paired that kicker already.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 26, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> On the other hand, Rocco's opponent didn't play it horribly either (well except for the preflop call)  But with A8 and nobody did a preflop raise, his play was reasonable especially when the turn gives him trips and on these tables.  Rocco played the hand passively.  No raise preflop, no reraise after his opponent raised on the flop.  The possibilities here for a big blind could be A2-A6 (5 hands with 8 ways to get each hand makes 40 different hands he could beat).  A7 (only 6 different ways he could have this hand) A8-A9 (2 hands = 16 hands he can't beat)  AT-AK are much less likely without the preflop raise.  So with 40 likely hands and 22 ways he could be beat (without going into sets), his play wasn't completely horrible.
> 
> It's hard to call it a bad beat when A8 beats A7.  He did have the better hand preflop and not a lot of reason to believe he paired that kicker already.



Nice to have another perspective.  I call any win with a 3 outer a _bad beat_


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 26, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> Nice to have another perspective.  I call any win with a 3 outer a _bad beat_



He had to hit a 3 outer (one of the 7s) to get ahead on the flop too


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 26, 2006)

Rocco was ahead on the flop and turn.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 26, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> Rocco was ahead on the flop and turn.



sure but it took him hitting 2 pair on the flop to get ahead


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 27, 2006)

oh, I see where you're coming from.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 27, 2006)

Haha, point is I suck!!!!  

I saw you on the $25 buy in last night Natural. How'd you do?

What kinds of hands to you all see the flop for?


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 27, 2006)

last night ... I did good.  All in preflop at the $25 ... AA and KK of course ... and depending on the circumstances and who I'm in with, QQ.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 27, 2006)

I know that at this level, this is still +ev.   I know that at some level, when you are reraised, you best take note and make an informed decision.  Right now, it's almost automatic for me to go all in.  People will call with the strangest hands


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 27, 2006)

People DO call with the strangest hands and that's what throws me off sometimes.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 27, 2006)

My thoughts on the strange hands ... if we both have the same type of hand (flush/three of a kind/two pairs/etc), It's more than likely that I'll have the better hand because I don't often play crap.

Of all the types of hands I very leary of are flushes because most everyone plays them.  But I will calls most bets if I have the K of the flush.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 27, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> Haha, point is I suck!!!!
> 
> I saw you on the $25 buy in last night Natural. How'd you do?
> 
> *What kinds of hands to you all see the flop for*?



In a cash game...  raise AA-JJ (maybe TT) from any position no matter how many people are in.  If I'm in late position with TT-77 and nobody has entered the pot yet, I will probably raise those too.  Limping in or calling small raises with any small pair looking to hit a set.

AK-AQ raise any position
AJ-A9 raise late position if first in (raise AJ in late position if people have limped in too)
Limp in early position with AJ depending on the table.  Probably fold AT or worse in early position
Axs - probably fold early position, limp in after 2-3 limpers but I am really looking to hit a flush here not the ace

KQ - raise late position, fold if someone else has already raised, limp in early position
KJ - same as KQ but I might fold in early position on an aggressive table.  Probably just limp in if there have been 2 or more limpers already

KTs - I will limp in with this but only from late position... even then the expected value is almost nothing

QJ - fold early position.  Might raise from the button if I'm the first one in just to mix it up.  I really don't like this hand at all.  Suited makes it a little better.  I really want to hit a big flop with this, not just the Q or J.

JTs-87s - limp with these especially in a no-limit game.  I would much rather be in late position after a couple limpers though.  On an aggressive table, I might just fold them from early position.

76s-54s - limp from late position after several limpers, otherwise fold

43s-32s - usually fold unless I'm on the button (maybe one off) and there are lots of people in the pot

JT-87 - fold in limit game, limp from late position against several opponents in no-limit

I will call a small raise (2-3 big blinds) with hands like 87s from late position if there are enough people in the pot.  If I limped in with it and then someone does a small raise, I'll call that too but I'll fold it to 4+ big blinds.

J9s, T8s, 97s, 86s - I've been known to limp in with these from late position with lots of other limpers too but only in a no-limit game.

For tournaments - I play the same while blinds are small and I have chips.  If I only have 1000 chips and the blinds 100-200 (stack to blind ration - known as 'm' is 3.33), if I am in middle to late position and nobody has put money in the pot, I will push all-in with any two cards (really with any m lower than 5).  When I have an m of 20 or more, I'll play normal poker.  At 20-10 I stop playing drawing hands.  At 10, I stop doing normal raises and just push all in with my good hands.  At 5, I push if I'm the first to enter the pot.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 27, 2006)

Very interesting Neil. Thanks for the info!!! As far a 'm' goes, how do you figure that?


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 27, 2006)

m = stack to (I believe) big blind ratio
your stack = 1000
bb = 200
your m = 5 to 1

It's probably in your best interest to learn what the ratios are and when to use them.  Personally, it hurts my head   Perhaps if I get into the higher levels I might pay attention to such things, but right now, its very simple ABC poker.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 27, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> m = stack to (I believe) big blind ratio
> your stack = 1000
> bb = 200
> your m = 5 to 1
> ...


Cool, thanks NT. I've got another Tournament this saturday night, I'll try and figure out how to use ratios and give that a go!


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 27, 2006)

I've got a game with three gals ... I know there are ladies that know how to play, but two go to local tournies and are always out first.  The other, just learning.    The buyin is $40 ... there are a few others, so I'm hoping to win a few $$ and fund the purchase of Poker Tracker.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 27, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> I've got a game with three gals ... I know there are ladies that know how to play, but two go to local tournies and are always out first.  The other, just learning.    The buyin is $40 ... there are a few others, so I'm hoping to win a few $$ and fund the purchase of Poker Tracker.


LOL. I just finished getting ready for class and thought I'd jump on a play a few hands before I have to leave...2nd hand I get I pay to see the flop. I have a full house and this other guy is betting heavy!! So I figure he's got a flush. Yep, he went all in and had A/K of hearts. I felt bad but it was a good second hand!!!


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 27, 2006)

Have fun taking their money NT!!!


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 28, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> LOL. I just finished getting ready for class and thought I'd jump on a play a few hands before I have to leave...2nd hand I get I pay to see the flop. I have a full house and this other guy is betting heavy!! So I figure he's got a flush. Yep, he went all in and had A/K of hearts. I felt bad but it was a good second hand!!!





I dropped a $25 buyin giong allin with nothing ... guy won and was happy.  I quickly rebought and took two buyins off the same guy.  If I have more time (this morning) I could have probably taken another as he was going on tilt.


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 28, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> Very interesting Neil. Thanks for the info!!! As far a 'm' goes, how do you figure that?



'm' is the ratio of your stack size to how much it costs to do an orbit at the table (based on a 10 person table)

so if the blinds are 1000/2000 with a 100 ante and you have 20500 chips...

1000+2000 = 3000 in blinds + 1000 in antes so 4000

m = 20500/4000 = ~5

So even though you have 20500 chips, the blinds are so high you don't have a lot of time to screw around.  However, you still have enough chips that if you push all in when you are the first to act, you will most likely win the 4000 that is currently in the pot (and that 4000 is going to help a lot)....  If you wait until you blind down to 10000 chips, you will most likely get called in several places and lose... plus with 10000 chips, if you do happen to double up you are just in the same position you were before.  This is why at 5, you really need to push all in with any 2 cards if there is nobody in the pot yet.  Even if you get called, you are likely only going to be about a 35% underdog... so now is the time to take the chance and steal the 4000 in the pot, double up or get out of tournament.  Waiting around is just going to ensure you don't win unless you get some great cards.

This is why when you watch professionals, some of their all-in pushes and calls with hands like KT or worse seem crazy.  They are just doing what is appropriate for the blind size and their 'm'.

Harrington on Hold'Em book 2 goes into awesome detail on this concept.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 28, 2006)

So how do you play differenty from Tournies to Cash games? Play more hands in tournies?


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 28, 2006)

Yep ... they are two totally different animals.  The main difference is in tournies, at some point and time, you NEED to make plays to stay alive.  At the cash game, you could wait for THE hand if you so choose to


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 28, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> Yep ... they are two totally different animals.  The main difference is in tournies, at some point and time, you NEED to make plays to stay alive.  At the cash game, you could wait for THE hand if you so choose to


And I think that's why I'm getting messed up. I was in the final two at my last tournie but my chip stack was about 5 BB at that point. I need to be more aggressive this time. I'm just not sure which hands to be aggressive with at this point, or is it more reading people and their bet patterns?


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 28, 2006)

Neil is your man for advice that makes sense.  I play by the seat of my pants.  If I can win a couple of big hands and become the "big stack" at the table, I bully others.


----------



## naturaltan (Apr 28, 2006)

Rocco, have you tried the $5 or $10 online sit and gos?  They are pretty easy to beat.


----------



## Rocco32 (Apr 28, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> Rocco, have you tried the $5 or $10 online sit and gos?  They are pretty easy to beat.


I have. At Ultimate Bet I usually won up to the $20 buy in (at least placed in money). 

At Pokerstars though I keep getting beat. They go All in like every freaking hand there!!!


----------



## NeilPearson (Apr 28, 2006)

There is a lot to tournaments.  I would highly recommend reading both the Harrington on Hold'Em books.

It talks about plays and the format of the book is awesome.  They talk about a concept and then the rest of the chapter is like a quiz.  They give you a specific situation complete with everyone stack sizes, the blind sizes, etc and make you think what you would do.  Then Harrington goes into detail on his thinking process in that situation and says why he likes or doesn't like certain moves.

Would I play more hands in a tournament... yes and no.  Again it comes down to stack sizes, 'm', how quick the blinds move up, etc.  If I'm at 10-15 m, I won't be playing suited connectors or hands like A2s.  These hands I would normally play in a cash game, especially with position.  At 10-15 m though, the investment is too big for the amount of time these hands pay off.  If my stack is 10 times the big blind, I can only win 10 big blinds if I go all in and win.  That is a 10:1 payback.  In a cash game, it might cost me $1 or $2 to play this same hand but when I win $100 stack, it is paying back 100:1 or 50:1.  That means I am getting much better odds to play speculative hands live if there is no raise (or a small one).  In a tournament, when blinds are big but you still have time to wait, I fold the speculative hands and play the big ones that are much more likely to win chips (and I play them aggressively)

Now the opposite happens when m gets down to 5.  Suddenly you are in danger of blinding out so those speculative hands because all-in hands but again, you really don't want to get a call... you would much rather take the blinds with an all-in with 87s (after all the blinds are big now).  To increase the chances that you will take those blinds, you want to only do these moves when there hasn't been anyone enter the pot yet.

So depending on the m, I might play a lot tighter than a cash game or I might push all in with any 2 random cards.

If my opponent happens to have AA... I would rather have 87s than KK


----------



## Rocco32 (May 1, 2006)

Thanks for the info Neil! I'll definately be picking up those books after this semester. Right now I'm reading Ace on the River and one called Internet Texas Hold'em.


----------



## Rocco32 (May 1, 2006)

Well 14 people showed up for the tournament. I busted out 13th LOL! I tried to play differently and more aggressively...guess I need more practice at that!

Afterward about 4 people were out we started our own cash game on the side. I won back my entry fee plus a whole 2 dollars!!!! 

Also, I got took twice fairly badly doing the $10 cash games online. Whoops.


----------



## NeilPearson (May 1, 2006)

I would also highly recommend:

Small Stacks Hold'em: Winning Big With Expert Play - Ed Miller, Sklansky, Malmuth
The Theory of Poker - Sklansky


----------



## Rocco32 (May 6, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> I would also highly recommend:
> 
> Small Stacks Hold'em: Winning Big With Expert Play - Ed Miller, Sklansky, Malmuth
> The Theory of Poker - Sklansky


I'll definately pick those up. Thanks!


----------



## Rocco32 (May 6, 2006)

Update- 

I've been losing. I'll be up for a day only to lose it the next day. However, on Monday I decided to only play Limit and at the .25-.50 table. Only play certain hands and all. This is all from the internet hold'em book I'm reading. 

On Monday I had $30 in my account. I've played maybe 5 hours this week and my bankroll is $105!!! I plan to wait until it's $200 and then go to the .50-$1 tables still playing the same way.


----------



## Rocco32 (May 7, 2006)

My bankroll is now at $130!!!


----------



## Rocco32 (May 8, 2006)

137.90. 1/2 an hour online this morning before cardio.


----------



## naturaltan (May 8, 2006)

Excellent!


----------



## Rocco32 (May 8, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> Excellent!


Thanks buddy. It feels good to finally be on the rise and able to control my "bad" impulses. How are you doing? Haven't seen you on lately.


----------



## naturaltan (May 8, 2006)

Really, if you play just the premium hands, chances are very good that you won't lose, and might make a few dollars.  I thin Neil might back me up on this, the real money comes in playing the no so premium hands at the right time.  Stealing blinds/pots at the right time.

I went to live poker game and lost my $40 because I was no patient enough.  I play multiple tables online and so when I'm folding the hands, there is always something to do.  Live, I just get bored and 'gamble'  

Two bigs hands spelt out my doom.  There was a young lady just learning the game.  I was dealt 10s and I was to the left of her.  On the flop, 3 Queens came.  Now ... all night long this gal has been playing any pair and sometimes even calling down with an Ace, so when she began to bet the flop, turn river, never once did I suspect she had the other queen.  I lost about $20.  My rational was that if someone had the other queen, they wouldn't be betting into me, they would let me bet.  Opps.  The only hand I put her on was an Ace.  Again, that was just by her betting pattern all night.  

My second big lose was going all in with a pair of 10s.  The guy I was playing would play any AJ and up like it was gold.  So I took a chance, preflop, reraised him all in and he called.  My first reaction was I had made a mistake, then he turned over AJ off.  Now it was a coin toss.  On the flop, rags, except 2 clubs.  Quickly, I scan my 10s, sweet, I have a club.  Then I notice his J was also a club.  So on the turn, I chanting, no AJ or club.  Another club.  Ugggg!  Ok, it's river time baby ... all I have to do is stay away from the clubs (how many can come in a row?  ) and the AJs.  The river ............... another small club!!  Wow.  And with that, I'm out and on my way home.  They are having another game with a $50 buyin.  I am looking at this as a learning experience.  I was drinking and I know that is not good if I really want to win.  So next time, it's all about the orange juice.


----------



## naturaltan (May 8, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> Thanks buddy. It feels good to finally be on the rise and able to control my "bad" impulses. How are you doing? Haven't seen you on lately.



I lost $100 playing while having a party at our house, so my punishment is not being able to play for 2 weeks.    Although, the hands I lost on were flush suckouts, I still broke my own rule to not play while drinking.


----------



## Rocco32 (May 8, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> Really, if you play just the premium hands, chances are very good that you won't lose, and might make a few dollars.  I thin Neil might back me up on this, the real money comes in playing the no so premium hands at the right time.  Stealing blinds/pots at the right time.
> 
> I went to live poker game and lost my $40 because I was no patient enough.  I play multiple tables online and so when I'm folding the hands, there is always something to do.  Live, I just get bored and 'gamble'
> 
> ...


LOL, at least you had fun!!! I think the safest and surest way to play and increase your bankroll is to play only premium hands. I've done it the other way and have had some big wins, but I usually in the long run have bigger loses!


----------



## naturaltan (May 8, 2006)

Playing premium hands is definitely a good way to learn to increase your bankroll and the variences won't be as harsh, but it's the combining the playing of premium hands and other hands that will make the big cash.  Good players will start to pick up on your only playing premium hands.  If that is the case, the amount you win will begin to go down.


----------



## Rocco32 (May 8, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> Playing premium hands is definitely a good way to learn to increase your bankroll and the variences won't be as harsh, but it's the combining the playing of premium hands and other hands that will make the big cash.  Good players will start to pick up on your only playing premium hands.  If that is the case, the amount you win will begin to go down.


True. But I also figure as many people come and go on those tables, they don't really finger you. Especially how many sites are out there. I was reading that a good Poker player should expect to win one big bet an hour. If your playing $20/$40, you should be up $40 every hour ( and I'm sure this is over the long run, there will be hours when your down and then all of a sudden you get hands and then your up several hundred.) But with this thinking in mind, if you were playing just one table for 40 hours a week, 47 weeks out of the year playing premium hands...That's $75,000 a year. Add another table in there and we're talking $150,000 a year. 

That's what I'm going for, try to keep the risk lower. Like I've said before I'd love for this to be my income you know?


----------



## Rocco32 (May 8, 2006)

NT- you talk about Hold'em Forums....which ones do you go to?


----------



## naturaltan (May 8, 2006)

http://www.flopturnriver.com/ is one of them.


----------



## naturaltan (May 8, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> True. But I also figure as many people come and go on those tables, they don't really finger you. Especially how many sites are out there. I was reading that a good Poker player should expect to win one big bet an hour. If your playing $20/$40, you should be up $40 every hour ( and I'm sure this is over the long run, there will be hours when your down and then all of a sudden you get hands and then your up several hundred.) But with this thinking in mind, if you were playing just one table for 40 hours a week, 47 weeks out of the year playing premium hands...That's $75,000 a year. Add another table in there and we're talking $150,000 a year.
> 
> That's what I'm going for, try to keep the risk lower. Like I've said before I'd love for this to be my income you know?




That's a $400 table ... to play that, you'll first need a very big bankroll.  Second, playing premium hands is likely to net not a bunch in return for the all the $60 blinds per round you'll have to put in.  I believe that is where the problem comes into play just playing the ph (premium hands) at the bigger tables.  You'll need to play a bit bigger variety of cards and then you'll need to be ready to be ablet o call larger contination bets when your AK/Q doesn't hit.  If you watch some of the bigger tables, you'll see that these guys will pray on the weak.  At the lower tables, calling a $1 on a missed flop with AK is ok.  Would you be as confident calling a $100 bet with AK on a missed flop of rags?  Now you'll need reads and pretty good understanding of the table to call or not call such a bet.


----------



## NeilPearson (May 8, 2006)

The 1 BB/hr rule (or 2 BB/hr - I've heard both) are mostly for limit games - and you should have at least a 150k bankroll for a $20/40 table.

However... most lower limit ABC type poker players would get their asses kicked at $5/10 or above.  Those people are all paying attention and they will know how many hands you are playing an hour which if you are tight, really makes it easy to put you on a hand.

No limit is a different animal, especially lower limits... up to about $2/4 blinds.  As you go up you have to know how much you win at each level.  In a no-limit cash game, I wouldn't go up until you have a big enough bankroll but also until you have shown that you can average 5+ big blinds an hour over a couple months and at least 20k hands.


----------



## NeilPearson (May 8, 2006)

http://www.unitedpokerforum.com
http://www.twoplustwo.com/


----------



## Rocco32 (May 17, 2006)

Alright...update:

I haven't deposited anymore money for 3 weeks now I think. I'm at $207 right now from my last deposit of $60 a few weeks ago. I'm moved up to the $1/$2 tables.


----------



## musclepump (May 19, 2006)

Just played in a fun little $5 Turbo NL MTT. Won it and a little prize of $110. Not too bad for an hour's play.


----------



## naturaltan (May 30, 2006)

so, what's happening here Rock?


----------



## Rocco32 (May 30, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> so, what's happening here Rock?


I lost my money  I do so well for awhile and then I play hands I know I shouldn't so I'm taking a step back for a few days to let the frustration pass. How are you doing?


----------



## naturaltan (May 31, 2006)

I took out what I put in and then went to the $100 and promptly lost the winnings.  LOL

The missus is giving me $1000 from a car accident settlement that I get to play with ... much fun will be had.


----------



## Rocco32 (May 31, 2006)

Awwwww, sounds nice. I wish I had $1,000 to play with at one time....I'd lose it but it'd be so much fun LOL.


----------



## naturaltan (Jun 1, 2006)

This will allow me to do some quick bonus whoring and maybe get an extra $500 quickly, then I'm set to play the $100 tables (.50/$1 blinds)


----------



## musclepump (Jun 15, 2006)

Everyone give up on Hold 'Em here?


----------



## Rocco32 (Jun 15, 2006)

Naw, I'm still doing it!!!! 

I'm trying something new. I dropped down to the .10/.20 limit tables and I'm playing every hand I'm dealt to see the flop. I get beat out so much when I have good hands by crap hands that I want to see the other side of the coin. So far I've made $15 in those tables this week.

I've done 8 $3 tournaments (9 people) and 2 $6 tournaments. Won 6 of the former and 1 of the latter.


----------



## Rocco32 (Jun 30, 2006)

Time to update I guess. Finally really learned about bankroll and management of it. Deposited $100 and started playing the Limit tables with that bankroll. Now I'm in .50/$1 limit games with my bankroll at $375. I may jump over to Pacific Poker...heard there are some great fish there.


----------



## Rocco32 (Aug 10, 2006)

Alright, another update. I play mainly at PartyPoker now. Bankroll is built up to $3,000. I'm in the 5/10 Limit games now and loving it. I've done a bunch of Sklansky reading and love it!!!

However, my tournament play has gone down drastically!!!!


----------



## naturaltan (Aug 10, 2006)

Your bankroll is at $3000???  What did it start at??


----------



## NeilPearson (Aug 10, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> Alright, another update. I play mainly at PartyPoker now. Bankroll is built up to $3,000. I'm in the 5/10 Limit games now and loving it. I've done a bunch of Sklansky reading and love it!!!
> 
> However, my tournament play has gone down drastically!!!!



Sklansky books are awesome


----------



## Rocco32 (Aug 10, 2006)

$100 as of July 1. Pokerstars is very loose and profitable if played correctly. Keep in mind too that I probably put in about 30 hours a week LOL!


----------



## Rocco32 (Aug 10, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> Sklansky books are awesome


 I've also been going to to the two plus two website and the ITH website picking stuff up.


----------



## naturaltan (Aug 10, 2006)

Wow ... what limits did you start out at?  I guessing you got lucky playing out of your bankroll.  Regardless, nice work!   

Now, with that kind of bankroll, you're able to really start making a few $$ profit that you could do something with.


----------



## Rocco32 (Aug 10, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> Wow ... what limits did you start out at?  I guessing you got lucky playing out of your bankroll.  Regardless, nice work!
> 
> Now, with that kind of bankroll, you're able to really start making a few $$ profit that you could do something with.


I started out on the .50/1 tables so that was out of my bankroll, but other than that I kept to having a bankroll of 300 times the Big Bet. Now, there was a bit of blackjack mixed in as well on the same site that helped build the bankroll. 

Yep, I'm ready to make some bucks now  I need to make car payments LOL. 

How are you doing NT? You play mostly No limit right?


----------



## naturaltan (Aug 10, 2006)

That is great to hear ... in a month and a bit, you're turned $100 into $3000 

I go up and down, never really doing much and playing for fun.  I decided this past week to see how well and far I could make my $50 turn into.  I am playing 7 tables and have turned the $50 into $110.  I play a very simple ABC poker game and at this level, it's more than enough. 

Something I've seen a few times that has me baffled is someone calling a .50 preflop raise (at the .5/.10 tables, that's 5X the big blind) with Queen rag off suit.  I've been beaten for two all ins with the best hand (Aces and kings) getting beat with two pair.  I just smile because I did in both cases get most of the money I put into those hands back.  But it confuses me as to what one would think they could get from playing that kind of hand to a preflop raise.


----------



## Rocco32 (Aug 10, 2006)

Even at the 5/10 limits where you'd think people know better I see some real crap played after a preflop raise. I have to keep reminding myself those are the people giving me the money!!! 

Sounds like your doing pretty good! I only play 1 table at a time, sometimes 2. But with the 1 table I get pretty good reads on people and I'm able to steal a bit more and save extra bets when I have a good hand but I'm sure I'm beat. 

Are you still on Poker Stars?


----------



## naturaltan (Aug 10, 2006)

I agree ... you're now playing at limits where you should get better reads on the players.  At the .5/.10 tables, reads are not necessary.  I call my method ground and pound.  If I have a hand, I bet, if I get friction, I reraise.  If that reraise is called or raised again, I then think about what they may have and what they think I may have.  But that rarely happens.    I raise from the button almost always and thus when I raise with Aces/Kings, I can get reraised at which point I raise allin and be done with it.  Works like a charm.  The odd time I take a beat, but that poker.  More often than not, I win.  I am seeing a few players who like to raise preflop with nothing to get a round of blinds.  Good idea until someone (me) picks up on it.    Then it's a reraise and they usually fold.

Yep, still on pokerstars.


----------



## Rocco32 (Aug 10, 2006)

You should try Party Poker sometime. Much easier on there. Pokerstars actually has a bit tougher competition from the reviews I've read.


----------



## naturaltan (Aug 10, 2006)

So when you deposited your $100, what did you buy in at at the .5/$1 tables?  Is the max $100?


----------



## Rocco32 (Aug 10, 2006)

With limit there may be a max but it's pretty high. Where I play now there is no max for Limit Play. I think I generally bought in for about double what the buy in was.


----------



## naturaltan (Aug 10, 2006)

what is the min buyin?  What do you think you changed that turned your losing streak into a winning streak?


----------



## Rocco32 (Aug 10, 2006)

I think the Min is like $25 for 50/1. The main thing that helped me is keeping to starting hands according to position and learning pot odds and implied pot odds. 

Also I use PokerTracker to track my progress but also to see how other people play. When I play a table now I can put everyone's stats that I'm playing against up on the table under their name. It's awesome!!!

Also, like I said before....competition is VERY easy at Party Poker. People bluff way too much, play hands they shouldn't play and a lot of calling stations. Also, you can tell who the weak players are or super tight and steal the pot from them more often. Give me your email, if I send you a link to sign up at Party Poker you get an extra $25 and I get $50


----------



## NeilPearson (Aug 10, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> I think the Min is like $25 for 50/1. The main thing that helped me is keeping to starting hands according to position and learning pot odds and implied pot odds.
> 
> Also I use PokerTracker to track my progress but also to see how other people play. When I play a table now I can put everyone's stats that I'm playing against up on the table under their name. It's awesome!!!
> 
> Also, like I said before....competition is VERY easy at Party Poker. People bluff way too much, play hands they shouldn't play and a lot of calling stations. Also, you can tell who the weak players are or super tight and steal the pot from them more often. Give me your email, if I send you a link to sign up at Party Poker you get an extra $25 and I get $50



PokerTracker is a must for any serious online player


----------



## NeilPearson (Aug 10, 2006)

I had a crappy hand a few days ago.

$0.50 / 1 NL

AA early position and I raise to $3.  I get called in 4 places... and the flop comes up JJ4.  I check and am ready to fold to any bet - with 4 cold callers and that flop... I am done with this hand.

It checks around and the turn is an Ace... which really sucks since someone had JJ


----------



## Rocco32 (Aug 10, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> PokerTracker is a must for any serious online player


 I have close to 20,000 hands logged now.


----------



## naturaltan (Aug 10, 2006)

I already have an account there (at Party Poker)


----------



## Rocco32 (Aug 10, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> I had a crappy hand a few days ago.
> 
> $0.50 / 1 NL
> 
> ...


OUCH!!!! I've had that happen to me. But the other day I was playing .25/.50 NL and ended up with 4 ten's (2 in pocket). The other guy had full house, Jacks over 10's. I felt bad for him but he went all in so I had to!


----------



## Rocco32 (Aug 10, 2006)

naturaltan said:
			
		

> I already have an account there (at Party Poker)


What's your screename? I'm Firefly4832


----------



## naturaltan (Aug 10, 2006)

NeilPearson said:
			
		

> I had a crappy hand a few days ago.
> 
> $0.50 / 1 NL
> 
> ...



so you put in a bet and were called?  That should raise a flag, shouldn't it?


----------



## naturaltan (Aug 10, 2006)

Rocco32 said:
			
		

> OUCH!!!! I've had that happen to me. But the other day I was playing .25/.50 NL and ended up with 4 ten's (2 in pocket). The other guy had full house, Jacks over 10's. I felt bad for him but he went all in so I had to!



 no feeling bad ... that's poker. 

I'm naturaltan everywhere.


----------

