# Putting it all together - HGH + IGF-1 + Insulin ??? by RedBaron



## heavyiron (Dec 13, 2011)

*Putting it all together - HGH + IGF-1 + Insulin  – by RedBaron

A basic peptide cycle guide for the lazy man *






There are volumes of studies available regarding the use of HGH, IGF-1  (and all its variants), and Insulin, but for the most part coming up  with a good cycle incorporating all of these is a tedious process and  requires more of an investment in time pouring over studies and other  reading than most people wish to invest.  The following is put forth as a  basic guide.  It is meant to be a quick and simple reference as to what  a cycle including all three of these components might look like and a  brief description of the action of each of the components.  This is in  no wise intended to be a comprehensive guide, a technical document, nor  is it presented as the ONLY way to run a cycle such as this.  This is  merely as an example of one method that will definitely yield results.   Myself and several athletes and all levels of competition have used the  basic cycle principles below with good success over the last few years.   You will certainly want to tweak this for your particular application,  but this should at least get you headed in the right direction.

*THE CYCLE*

*Weeks 1- (20-30) – HGH – On 5/ off 2*
_Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25)_
• 2 – 3 IU’s - first thing in the morning on workout days – early afternoon on non-workout days
_Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30)_
• 2 – 3 IU’s first thing in the morning
• 2 – 3 IU’s 1-2 p.m. or pre-workout (or IM post-workout with your insulin if preferred)
_All HGH injected subQ into abdomen, obliques, fronts of the thighs, and upper triceps_

*Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25)  – Long R3 IGF-1 – Every day*
80 – 100 mcg’s intramuscular
• post work out on workout days 
• first thing in the morning on non-workout days

*Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30) – Humalog – Workout days only*
• 8 – 12 IU’s immediately post workout, intramuscular

*IMPORTANT / CRITICAL - Post Insulin Nutrient Routine*
_Immediately after Humalog injection – do the following in exacting fashion -_
• Injection + 5 minutes – drink shake with 10g glutamine / 10g creatine /  7 grams of dextrose per IU of Insulin.  (If you don’t wish to split the  shakes, add the whey isolate described as well here for a single  shake).
• Injection + 15 minutes – drink shake with 65g of whey isolate protein in water (skip if taken with above)
• Injection + 75 minutes – eat a protein / carb meal with 40-50g of  protein, 40-50g of carbs, NO FATS (you may wish to add another 30g or so  whey isolate protein drink with this meal if you have tore down  sufficient muscle groups to utilize this without it being stored as fat)
 (i.e. – two boneless, skinless chicken breasts baked or grilled, a  serving of brown rice, sweet potatoes, or pasta, with green beans)
_Avoid fats for 2-3 hours for Humalog IM, 3-4 hours for Humalog subQ, 4-5 hours for Humulin-R._
*keep some glucose tablets or other simple carbs on hand (Orange  Juice, Full sugar Coke, etc.) for the active window of your insulin.   Hypo symptoms can and will hit hard and fast and you will have little  time to react.  This is the main danger of insulin use. .  Lack of  attention to detail in this area can end in a nice ambulance ride, a  visit to the hospital or even a one-way trip to the morgue.  Be ready  and act smart.  The price of stupidity is really, really high.*

*OPTIONAL Addition to above cycle*

*Weeks 1- (20-30) T3 or T4 - Every Day*
_one of the following –_
• 12.5 mcgs - 25 mcgs T3 taken once each day
                       -or –
• 100 mcgs T4 taken once each day

_[alternative method if additional fat loss is necessary - Only use if  sufficient AAS cycle is present to protect and support lean tissue and  use only during the weeks of LR3 injections to avoid any potential  negative impact to our IGF levels by increased IGF binding proteins.   The 13 amino acid side chain of LR3 IGF-1 has specifically been  engineered to resist being impressed by or bound to IGFBP’s, so any  increase in the below ramp up/down will not kill your IGF levels.  A  reasonable dose AAS component of the cycle will further protect lean  tissue from being used for fuel.  In absence of these above-mentioned  components, you won’t want to run your T3 above 50mcgs per day.  It will  begin to elevate IGFBP’s and will dismantle and burn through  hard-earned muscle proteins quicker than you could imagine.]_

Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) T3 Every Day
For each of the 5 week runs of T3:
Days 1-3         25 mcgs
Days 4-6         50 mcgs
Days 7-9         75 mcgs
Days 10 - 20  100 mcgs
Days 21 - 24    75 mcgs
Days 25 - 27    50 mcgs
Days 28 - 30    25 mcgs
Days 31 - 35  12.5 mcgs

*DESCRIPTION OF THE ELEMENTS OF THIS CYCLE*

*HGH*
HGH should ideally be used for 20-30 week cycles (or longer).  The  dosage should be between 2-3IU per day if you are using GH primarily for  fat loss, 4-8 IU’s a day for both fat loss and muscle growth, and  approximately 1.0 – 2.0 IU’s a day for females.  It is best to split  your injections 1/2 first thing in the morning, 1/2 early afternoon if  your dose is above 3.0 IU’s per day.  Your pituitary will naturally  produce an average of 6 or so pulses of GH per day, the mega pulse being  2 hours after we fall asleep.  Each injection you take will create a  negative feedback loop that as suggested by a couple of studies will  suppress these pulses for an approximate 4 hours.  By taking your  injections first thing in the morning and early afternoon you will still  allow your body to release its biggest pulse, which normally occurs  shortly after going to sleep at night, as well as blunting the effects  of cortisol, the two biggest peaks of which are occurring at these same  times (early morning, early afternoon).

When starting out with your HGH cycle, for most people it is wise to  begin you dose at 1.5 – 2.0IU per day for the first couple of weeks, and  then begin increasing your dose by 0.5 unit every week or two until you  reach your desired level.  While it isn't an absolute necessity to do  this, if you are sensitive to the type of sides HGH present you will  often times avoid these sides of joint pain/swelling, CTS, and  bloating/water retention by slowly acclimating to your ultimate 4-5  IU/day goal.

_You should use an U100 insulin syringe for injecting HGH, and inject  it subQ into your abdomen, obliques, top of thighs, triceps.  Rotate  injection sites.  HGH can have a small-localized fat loss benefit, so  keep this in mind when choosing your injection sites._

*IGF-1*
When HGH makes it pass through the liver, a release of IGF-1 is a  result.  IGF-1 appears to be a key player in muscle growth. It  stimulates both the differentiation and proliferation of myoblasts. It  also stimulates amino acid uptake and protein synthesis in muscle and  other tissues.  While HGH will cause an increase in your IGF-1 level  over the course of a few months, HGH has a cumulative effect, so our  addition of IGF-1 will greatly speed up the time to results.

There are two types of IGF-1 that will typically be used by  bodybuilders.  One is bio-identical huIGF-1, a 70 amino acid string.   The other is Long R3 IGF-1, which is an 83 amino acid analog of human  IGF-I comprising the complete human IGF-I sequence with the substitution  of an Arg for the Glu at position 3 (hence R3), and a 13 amino acid  extension peptide at the N-terminus (hence the long).  This 13 amino  acid "side chain" helps prevent the IGF-1 from being so easily bound by  binding proteins, and thus increases its active window exponentially.   Which of these you use depends on your goal.

_HuIGF-1 _is very short lived in the body (probable half life of  approximately 10 minutes).  This type of IGF-1 is very useful if you are  seeking local site growth.  Since it is so short lived, little if any  of the IGF-1 makes it to other tissues and IGF-1 receptors in other  parts of the body.  The way to inject this is immediately post work out  into the muscle that you wish to have local site growth.  Use a U100  insulin syringe, and inject 100 - 300 mcg’s (in some cases more)  bilaterally into the desired muscle immediately post workout.  For this  type of IGF-1, I would use it workout days only.

For _Long R3 IGF-1_, it isn’t as critical that you inject into a  local site as long R3 has a active window of many hours (if not days),  and is designed specifically to resist being bound by IGF binding  proteins. 

 Since it is common to reconstitute this type of IGF-1 with Benzyl  Alcohol, Acetic Acid, or Hydrochloric Acid, I would still recommend that  you inject intra-muscular.  While for some purposes of nerve regrowth  and other medical recovery purposes subQ is a somewhat superior  injection method, it can and probably will leave a nice red irritated  spot for a couple of weeks if you inject subQ, and it is not superior  for our purposes of muscle growth anyway.  

I still inject into a muscle just worked to take advantage of increased  IGF-1 receptors present as a result of tearing down muscles with my  workout, but because of the long activity window of this type of IGF-1  any muscle will work well and give you good results.  I would suggest  that you inject between 80 – 120 mcg’s per day everyday immediately post  workout on workout days, and first thing in the morning on non-workout  days.

The added bonus of using LR3 in our cycle is that fat loss will be  accomplished while still eating a great number of clean calories per  day.  You will visibly see yourself leaning out from a couple of weeks  in on while using LR3 at doses suggested here.

_Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IGF-1  intramuscular (bilaterally for HuIGF-1, bilaterally optional for Long  R3)_

*Insulin*
Working out causes our muscles to end up in a catabolic state after a  good hammering.  It is important to back in a positive nitrogen balance  as soon as possible.  When not using insulin, we drink some dextrose  with our protein to cause an insulin spike immediately post workout to  help shuttle the protein and sugars to the muscles.  

Insulin is very good at shuttling nutrients to the muscles, and works in  a very complimentary manner with GH in the types of things that they  shuttle.  Also, HGH can cause an amount of insulin resistance, so adding  some insulin to your cycle will go a long ways toward reducing the  elevated blood glucose levels caused by HGH's action of interfering with  the liver's ability to uptake glucose, and thus help offset any  potential resistance that might occur during your HGH cycle.  Also by  taking our HGH near the time of our insulin injection (immediately post  workout) we are ensuring a great influx of growth factors after action  on the liver.  HGH + Slin passed through the liver = BIG secretion of  growth factors.  These growth factors will equate to muscle growth,  rapid healing, etc.

For the purposes that we are using insulin, a dosage of 6-12IU’s is  adequate and should be used immediately post workout.  I personally  prefer using Humalog intramuscular as it will cause a rapid spike and  clear out of your system quickly.  You can use it subQ or use Humulin-R  instead, but each of these will result in a longer active window, thus a  longer time to avoid eating any fats and watching your carb intake.   Any fats or over abundance of carbs will end up being stored as fat  during insulin's active window.  The approximate windows are:
Humalog -     IM -       2-3 hours
                   Sub-q -  3-4 hours
Humulin -R -  IM -      3-4 hours
                   Sub-q    4-5 hours

_Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IM immediately  post workout.  Alternatively, you can inject subQ if desired or if you  wish a longer active window for some reason.  Begin with a dose of 4IU's  or so, and increase the dose each workout day until you reach your  desired 8-12IU's._

If for some reason you wish to avoid insulin, I would still suggest that  immediately post workout you spike you own endogenous insulin by  drinking 80 grams of dextrose / 40 grams of whey isolate protein.  While  this certainly won't do the work of 8-12 IU's of Humalog, it will most  certainly assist getting your muscle back in a nitrogen positive  environment in a short amount of time.


*T3 or T4*
HGH can (but certainly not universally) have a slight inhibitory effect  on your thyroid.  For most people this is minimal and does not require  any additional thyroid be taken, but if you wish to augment protein  synthesis as well as give yourself a slight metabolic boost in thyroid  without shutting down your own production, you can add 12.5mcg of T3 or  50mcgs of T4 daily to your HGH, IGF-1, and Insulin cycle.  This will aid  both in bulking and cutting.  

If you add T3 or T4 to your cycle, you should also consider taking some  thyroid support supplements such as t-100x, bladderwrack, and coleus  forskolin.  You should check and make sure your intake of trace minerals   (selenium, zinc, copper) is sufficient to aid in the conversion of T4  to T3.  

If you are going to take more than 12.5 mcg of T3 or 50mcgs of T4, a  wise method is to cycle the dose both up and down to avoid a rebound  effect when going off the T3 portion of your cycle.  While many profess  they don’t suffer from this rebound problem, I can personally attest to  MANY that do.  If you don’t have a desire to find out whether you are  one of the lucky ones or not, consider the ramp up/down to minimize the  rebound.  It is a real bummer to lose a bunch of fat only to pack it  right back on because your metabolism is in the toilet for many weeks  post thyroid cycling.  The other consideration is that T3 is very  indiscriminant in it stoking of the metabolic fire.  It will happily  burn both fat and lean tissue (muscle proteins are really attractive,  easy marks), so I would only recommend its use at much above 25mcgs of  T3 or 100mcgs of T4 per day (and definitely if used at 50mcgs of T3 or  200mcgs of T4 or above - at which point IGFBP's will rise significantly  enough to be a consideration) if you are on a reasonably healthy  anabolic cycle to protect your lean tissue.  For strictly our use with  an HGH cycle and use in assisting with protein synthesis, 12.5mcg of T3  or 50mcgs of T4 will be sufficient and will not be problematic.  

Also another consideration if cycling in higher doses, cycle your T3 in  conjunction with your LR3 IGF-1 use.  The thought behind this is that  LR3 binds poorly to IGFBP's, so you will be able to use an elevated dose  of T3 (which will likely increase IGFBP's) and still keep elevated  IGF-1 levels.  I would suggest that use of T3 above 25mcg's or T4 at  doses above 100mcgs or so would not be advisable for too many 5 weeks  segments of your complete cycle.  As one of the major "anabolic"  benefits of HGH use is elevated IGF-1 levels, we don't want to create an  environment of radically increased IGF binding proteins.  Abuse of T3  or T4 will go a long way in creating that environment hostile to IGF-1.

Well, I think that about covers the basic peptide suite …all that is  needed to complete this cycle is the addition of your preferred anabolic  portion of the cycle –a simple testosterone combo (cyp, e, prop, etc.)  or a more complex cycle.  In either event, add something along those  lines and you have a great combination that can be tailored for whatever  your goals may be.

I hope this guide helps get you going on the right path.  Happy growing!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



RedBaron
_(last updated 1/15/07)_


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## GreenOx (Dec 13, 2011)

Some very good, detailed information here. A must read for anyone considering using HGH 

Thanks for the post Heavyiron -


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## GH Consigliere (Dec 13, 2011)

Good money only read 1/2 but heavy is really a knowegleable guy!! A++ product


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## OldSchoolLifter (Dec 13, 2011)

awesome Heavy!


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## World-Pharma.org (Dec 13, 2011)

Great info from that guys,its old article,but good one!


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## Calves of Steel (Dec 13, 2011)

I must spread some more reps around before I can rep for this!


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## Patriot1405 (Dec 14, 2011)

Thanks Heavy, very informative as always.... I hope to soon have the courage to use insulin!!  Lol


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## D-Lats (Dec 14, 2011)

Awesome!! Im thinking i will utilize this in the new year.


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## GMO (Dec 14, 2011)

Good post...that is my routine down to a T, although I usually run the HGH a bit higher.


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## MrSaturatedFat (Dec 14, 2011)

HGH, IGF-1, and Insulin to me seem like the big daddy of steroids. Your reward for putting in multiple cycles and being dedicated for years. 

Im only 2 cycles in. But I know I'll give this a run years down the road, prolly in my mid 30's. Great write up. Bookmarked so I can read and re-read.


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## OldSchoolLifter (Dec 14, 2011)

Very similar to the current protocol im on!


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## VictorZ06 (Dec 14, 2011)

I followed many of RBs slin/gh protocols.  The one Heavy posted is a little outdated, he made a new/revised version in 2010, this one is from 2007.  I'll see if I can find his newest one.  A lot of good info, many parts of my protocol are similar to his if you compare them side by side.  RB is one of the more respected vets/guides when it comes to slin.  I used to do a lot of Q&A with him many years back and he was a great help to me.  Good thread Heavy....I'll look for his new protocol.




/V


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## heavyiron (Dec 14, 2011)

VictorZ06 said:


> I followed many of RBs slin/gh protocols.  The one Heavy posted is a little outdated, he made a new/revised version in 2010, this one is from 2007.  I'll see if I can find his newest one.  A lot of good info, many parts of my protocol are similar to his if you compare them side by side.  RB is one of the more respected vets/guides when it comes to slin.  I used to do a lot of Q&A with him many years back and he was a great help to me.  Good thread Heavy....I'll look for his new protocol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks brother, I found his 2005 and 2007 version but didn't know there was a 2010 version. This guy is gold with this stuff so any updates would be awesome.


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## VictorZ06 (Dec 14, 2011)

heavyiron said:


> Thanks brother, I found his 2005 and 2007 version but didn't know there was a 2010 version. This guy is gold with this stuff so any updates would be awesome.



I'm looking and looking, can't remember what board I saw it on.  I'll try and PM/email him and see if he can send it to me.



/V


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## heavyiron (Dec 26, 2011)

Bump


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## Pittsburgh63 (Dec 26, 2011)

Looking forward to see that updated version.  I've been doing a ton of research the past few months on insulin use with hgh.  Still not ready to make the jump. lol


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## dav1dg90 (Dec 27, 2011)

Good damn post Heavy!!!! I may take the leep to Gh/Slin soon LOL, I am just trying to max out my limits and use this as my last trick in the bag.


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## camthman (Dec 28, 2011)

Bump for updatE?


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## MattPorter (Dec 28, 2011)

dav1dg90 said:


> Good damn post Heavy!!!! I may take the leep to Gh/Slin soon LOL, I am just trying to max out my limits and use this as my last trick in the bag.



YOu are wise for having that train of thought!

Use it after you  have stressed all other avenues...

-Matt


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## J.thom (Dec 28, 2011)

Nice!


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## stfuandliftbtch (Dec 28, 2011)

great post! very informative.


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## psyxxx (Aug 19, 2012)

Pittsburgh63 said:


> Looking forward to see that updated version.  I've been doing a ton of research the past few months on insulin use with hgh.  Still not ready to make the jump. lol



You mean the version to be found here: Insulin Like Growth Factor~IGF 1 [Archive] - RX Muscle Forums

?

I hope that's the version you guys were looking for. 
Man, I would read a book written by HeavyIron it's that interesting to read - and honestly, it's so clear and well-researched.

The one question I would have, going back to the original post in this thread, is: What does* HGH 5 on /2 off *
refer to?
Is this weeks/days on and off, or what?

Thanks for your help guys, I'm looking into doing a cycle like this, this autumn and running through till spring time - Could anybody give me some advice/pointers?
Greatly appreciated.

Psy


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