# Sarah Palin?!?!



## Splash Log (Aug 29, 2008)

Meh, what a shit pick.


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## busyLivin (Aug 29, 2008)

Splash Log said:


> Meh, what a shit pick.



Not at all. She's a fantastic pick.  I really hope it's her.  Everyone's talking about it (and not about Obama's speech), she'll motivate the base, pro-life, conservative, governor, attractive... what's not to like?

Granted I don't know much about her yet, but so far so good.  I can already tell you.. the idea of what her has a lot of conservatives excited.. myself included.


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## Splash Log (Aug 29, 2008)

Its such an obvious ploy to get pissed off Hillary supporters to turn.  Its politics I know but when its this painfully obvious I think its detrimental to his campaign.


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## busyLivin (Aug 29, 2008)

Splash Log said:


> Its such an obvious ploy to get pissed off Hillary supporters to turn.  Its politics I know but when its this painfully obvious I think its detrimental to his campaign.



She's been talked about for a long time, just unexpected.  Rush Limbaugh mentioned her for McCain's pick back in February, Bill Kristol's been recommending her for a long time.  

Campaigns are always about upstaging the opponent.  Would you say Obama's pick of Biden is not painfully obvious that he's going for his experience in foreign affairs? Not at all.. he's looking to strengthen his ticket to win.

She satisfies conservatives, and she may attract woman voters to elect him President. How you can say this is a shit pick I just don't understand.  It's really a brilliant pick.


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## bio-chem (Aug 29, 2008)

vice president doesnt mean shit. unless the president dies (and no one votes based on that possibility). No one votes for obama because of his vp pick and no one will vote for McCain because of his.


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## DaMayor (Aug 29, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> he's looking to strengthen his ticket to win. *Yep.*
> 
> It's really a brilliant pick.




It was the *only* pick. McCain is running against a charismatic black man. What's better to off~set this than a white female?

This will be interesting.


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## busyLivin (Aug 29, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> vice president doesnt mean shit. unless the president dies (and no one votes based on that possibility). No one votes for obama because of his vp pick and no one will vote for McCain because of his.



I really think this year will prove to be different.


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## FishOrCutBait (Aug 29, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> I really think this year will prove to be different.


Because if Mccain goes two terms,

im not sure if hes gonna be around for 8 more years.


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## 2truSoldier (Aug 29, 2008)

Mccain has been bashing Obama about his inexperience and he chooses Palin to be his running mate. This is more of a strategic decision than anything else. Mccain is just like Bush, I can run this country by myself. He just made his ticket weaker.


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## bio-chem (Aug 29, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> I really think this year will prove to be different.



all right lets do a little unscientific poll. If anyone here was leaning towards Obama and is now pro McCain please chime in. Conversely if you were leaning towards McCain, but will now look at obama more closely let us know.

VP doesnt mean shit. all the conservatives that made a stink over the possibility of a pro-choice republican VP. what were they going to do? vote obama to show McCain? oh, they would not vote thereby also ensuring an obama win. Way too big a deal is made about the VP pick. The only thing a VP is good for is attacking the other side on whatever strengths the VP is perceived to have and the other guy lacks.


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## busyLivin (Aug 29, 2008)

2truSoldier said:


> Mccain has been bashing Obama about his inexperience and he chooses Palin to be his running mate. This is more of a strategic decision than anything else. Mccain is just like Bush, I can run this country by myself. He just made his ticket weaker.



She alone has more executive experience that Biden & Obama combined.  They are legislators... big difference.. which is why a senator hasn't been president since Kennedy.


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## busyLivin (Aug 29, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> all right lets do a little unscientific poll. If anyone here was leaning towards Obama and is now pro McCain please chime in. Conversely if you were leaning towards McCain, but will now look at obama more closely let us know.



 You're completing discarding what happened with Hillary.  She was dissed.  53% of voters in 2004 were women.  It's the first woman on a Republican ticket.  Generating a lot of buzz, potentially drowning out what happened this week.

It's different.


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## bio-chem (Aug 29, 2008)

2truSoldier said:


> Mccain has been bashing Obama about his inexperience and he chooses Palin to be his running mate. This is more of a strategic decision than anything else. Mccain is just like Bush, I can run this country by myself. He just made his ticket weaker.



i don't agree with this at all. Bush has relied heavily on his VP. he also relied heavy on his cabinet. the two secretary's of state (both were black, one female) as well as his attorney general (another minority).

McCain is running on experience. His. he doesn't need his VP pick to have the 20 years of experience he has. besides he chose a VP with executive experience. how much of that does obama have? the truth is I don't think the VP pick means anything. Shit he should have put Gene Upshaw in there if the guy was still alive.


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## 2truSoldier (Aug 29, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> She alone has more executive experience that Biden & Obama combined.  They are legislators... big difference.. which is why a senator hasn't been president since Kennedy.



How much executive experience can you gain in a two year period?


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## busyLivin (Aug 29, 2008)

2truSoldier said:


> How much executive experience can you gain in a two year period?



Running a state?  Much more than legislating for one year.


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## 2truSoldier (Aug 29, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> Running a state?  Much more than legislating for one year.



Check your numbers there incorrect. I'm just saying he needs a stronger ticket.


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## bio-chem (Aug 29, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> You're completing discarding what happened with Hillary.  She was dissed.  53% of voters in 2004 were women.  It's the first woman on a Republican ticket.  Generating a lot of buzz, potentially drowning out what happened this week.
> 
> It's different.



I'm asking people to show me otherwise and you think I'm disregarding what happened to hillary? Your damn right I am. And you have not shown anything to prove differently. 

CNN poll question:
Will Sen. McCain's choice of Sarah Palin as a running mate snag Sen. Clinton's supporters? an overwhelming majority have voted NO.
Yes 	42% 	 17763
No 	58% 	24858
Total Votes: 42621 

Women are not going to jump to McCains ticket over this. This isn't like with the black vote who regardless of obamas politics will vote for obama simply because he is black (see charles barkley for example)


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## bio-chem (Aug 29, 2008)

2truSoldier said:


> How much executive experience can you gain in a two year period?



How much federal experience can you gain?


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## busyLivin (Aug 29, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> I'm asking people to show me otherwise and you think I'm disregarding what happened to hillary? Your damn right I am. And you have not shown anything to prove differently.
> 
> CNN poll question:
> Will Sen. McCain's choice of Sarah Palin as a running mate snag Sen. Clinton's supporters? an overwhelming majority have voted NO.
> ...



You're asking me to poll IM, and you're referencing a CNN poll.  Both lean significanly left.  That same poll on Fox News would be 80 Yes, 20 no.

How can I possibly prove it?  It's an opinion. I just disagree that women won't vote for McCain because of the woman on his ticket.


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## busyLivin (Aug 29, 2008)

2truSoldier said:


> Check your numbers there incorrect. I'm just saying he needs a stronger ticket.



He's been campaigning for half the time he's been in the senate.


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## 2truSoldier (Aug 29, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> How much federal experience can you gain?



One term is not enough, not to even take the number 2 spot. Granted she is ethically sound, but not proven. Give the state the chance to re-elect.


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## bio-chem (Aug 29, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> You're asking me to poll IM, and you're referencing a CNN poll.  Both lean significanly left.  That same poll on Fox News would be 80 Yes, 20 no.
> 
> How can I possibly prove it?  It's an opinion. I just disagree that women won't vote for McCain because of the woman on his ticket.



Im asking for any type of contradictory evidence. Like I said I recognize it is unscientific. I'm ok with that. I have yet to hear anyone. man or woman tell me this changes their vote, or their thinking. please show me otherwise. Im not looking for something that is scientific or appropriately unbiased (as IM or cnn apparently are) we have a good mix of both left and right leaning individuals here. CNN is the same..


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## bio-chem (Aug 29, 2008)

2truSoldier said:


> One term is not enough, not to even take the number 2 spot. Granted she is ethically sound, but not proven. Give the state the chance to re-elect.



OH MY GOD. are you really not getting what I was saying? Federal experience? my reference was to OBAMA. the guy has only been in a federal office for 2 years none of which was executive. Palin has had 2 years of state executive experience. no one can point out palin's lack of experience without highlighting obamas.


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## busyLivin (Aug 29, 2008)

2truSoldier said:


> One term is not enough, not to even take the number 2 spot. Granted she is ethically sound, but not proven. Give the state the chance to re-elect.



 She has an approval rating in the 80s.


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## 2truSoldier (Aug 29, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> OH MY GOD. are you really not getting what I was saying? Federal experience? my reference was to OBAMA. the guy has only been in a federal office for 2 years none of which was executive. Palin has had 2 years of state executive experience. no one can point out palin's lack of experience without highlighting obamas.



I understand, but my point is Obama's choice for his VP pick was because he knows he lacks experience, that made his ticket stronger. Mccain choice does nothing for him, its just for votes.


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## busyLivin (Aug 29, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> Im asking for any type of contradictory evidence. Like I said I recognize it is unscientific. I'm ok with that. I have yet to hear anyone. man or woman tell me this changes their vote, or their thinking. please show me otherwise. Im not looking for something that is scientific or appropriately unbiased (as IM or cnn apparently are) we have a good mix of both left and right leaning individuals here. CNN is the same..



I'm just saying conventional wisdom is out the door.  The only other woman on a ticket was in 1984, where Regan blew out Mondale... nothing could have helped Mondale.  I just think we're in uncharted waters.  It will be interesting to see how the women vote comes out in November.


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## busyLivin (Aug 29, 2008)

2truSoldier said:


> . Mccain choice does nothing for him, its just for votes.





McCain is still the top of the ticket.  The whole vetting process is to determine who would help get him elected.


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## 2truSoldier (Aug 29, 2008)

busyLivin said:


>



I know another Bush.


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## bio-chem (Aug 29, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> McCain is still the top of the ticket.  The whole vetting process is to determine who would help get him elected.



 in this we are like minded.


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## bio-chem (Aug 29, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> I'm just saying conventional wisdom is out the door.  The only other woman on a ticket was in 1984, where Regan blew out Mondale... nothing could have helped Mondale.  I just think we're in uncharted waters.  It will be interesting to see how the women vote comes out in November.



it will be split 50/50 obama/McCain. women will cancel themselves out.


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## ZECH (Aug 29, 2008)

2truSoldier said:


> I'm just saying he needs a stronger ticket.



Considering the votes it will get him, it could not have been a better choice.


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## busyLivin (Aug 29, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> in this we are like minded.


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## Witmaster (Aug 29, 2008)

2truSoldier said:


> I understand, but my point is Obama's choice for his VP pick was because he knows he lacks experience, that made his ticket stronger. Mccain choice does nothing for him, its just for votes.


That's a fair arguement.  But isn't "Votes" what this thing's all about?

I think Sarah Palin is a good choice and I think she DOES bring something to his ticket.


She's undisputedly conservative
She's a shoe-in with the pro-life crowd.
Her fiscal policies seem sound.
and


She has signed gay-rights benifits into law.
She's demonstrated a environmentaly conscious approach to energy developement without succombing to the pressures of the evil "BIG OIL" companies.
AND

She's a former beauty pagent runner-up.  Even at 44 years old she's quite attractive.  Girl takes care of herself.
I like her.


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## I Are Baboon (Aug 29, 2008)

dg806 said:


> Considering the votes it will get him, it could not have been a better choice.



LOL....you'd support your party if a hamster was the VP candidate.

BTW, she's quite easy on the eyes.


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## Crono1000 (Aug 29, 2008)

Splash Log said:


> Its such an obvious ploy to get pissed off Hillary supporters to turn.  Its politics I know but when its this painfully obvious I think its detrimental to his campaign.



exactly.  Neither candidate going to pick the best VP for the country, just the best VP for the votes/polls. I can't stand Cheney, but he's actually doing stuff (bad stuff, but still stuff).  This nobody chick and Biden are nothing but counter-electives to the candidates' images, and it's so blatant it's offensive.  Obama is black and has the reputation of being inexperienced, young, and elitist; so he gets a white, older guy that's in insane debt and grew up poor.  McCain is old and has a penis; so he picks somebody who is young and has a vagina.  It's evil, and it's genius, but it's also detrimental to the country.  After the clusterfuck prom-king drama that is VP choosing I have very little hope that either of these candidates are in this for the right reasons.


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## Splash Log (Aug 29, 2008)

2truSoldier said:


> How much executive experience can you gain in a two year period?



More then Obama, Biden combined


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## 2truSoldier (Aug 29, 2008)

Witmaster said:


> That's a fair arguement.  But isn't "Votes" what this thing's all about?
> 
> I think Sarah Palin is a good choice and I think she DOES bring something to his ticket.
> 
> ...




I agree with your first points. 

I have a problem with the second point. Gay rights=nuff said and her husband works for the evil "BIG OIL" company.

Your last point is exactly what we should look for in a VP


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## Witmaster (Aug 29, 2008)

2truSoldier said:


> I agree with your first points.
> 
> I have a problem with the second point. Gay rights=nuff said and her husband works for the evil "BIG OIL" company.
> 
> Your last point is exactly what we should look for in a VP


 
You missed point....

Her willingness to acknowledge certain "gay Rights" demonstrates her ability to reach across staunch party lines.

Her husband's affiliation to "Big Oil" has not swayed her into questionable energy policies that could be percieved as "favoritism".  In other words, just because she's married to an Oil guy doesn't mean she's gonna start deep-core drilling through the polar ice caps to make a $ from kick-backs.

Look... you can play the party line... and you'll lose.  McCain has to be able to reach both parties (ESPECIALLY the undecideds and the disenfranchized Hillary supporters).  Sarah Palin was a good call.

And what's wrong if she's HOT?  One of the biggest turn-offs about Hillary is her HUGE ASS.


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## 2truSoldier (Aug 29, 2008)

Witmaster said:


> That's a fair arguement.  But isn't "Votes" what this thing's all about?
> 
> I think Sarah Palin is a good choice and I think she DOES bring something to his ticket.
> 
> ...





Witmaster said:


> You missed point....
> 
> Her willingness to acknowledge certain "gay Rights" demonstrates her ability to reach across staunch party lines.
> 
> ...



FYI... I am republican


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## Witmaster (Aug 29, 2008)

2truSoldier said:


> FYI... I am republican


Dude.  I know this.  So am I.


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## ZECH (Aug 29, 2008)

she's a card-carrying lifetime member of the National Rifle Association, hunter and fisherman.
She's got my vote.


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## bio-chem (Aug 29, 2008)

dg806 said:


> she's a card-carrying lifetime member of the National Rifle Association, hunter and fisherman.
> She's got my vote.



were you voting McCain anyway?


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## ZECH (Aug 29, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> were you voting McCain anyway?



Didn't want to, but was gonna be forced to. Now it is easier.


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## bio-chem (Aug 29, 2008)

dg806 said:


> Didn't want to, but was gonna be forced to. Now it is easier.



what effect do you expect to see from her on McCains policies. Do you really expect her to have an influence on things such as the economy, war in iraq, gay/lesbian rights or any other politically hot items? or is this just a feel good reach around?


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## min0 lee (Aug 29, 2008)

Splash Log said:


> Its such an obvious ploy to get pissed off Hillary supporters to turn.


That's the word going around.


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## min0 lee (Aug 29, 2008)

*Palin exactly the veep McCain needs*



Palin exactly the veep McCain needs
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]COMPASS: _Other points of view_[/SIZE][/FONT]





[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]By WILLIAM RUGER




_(08/02/08 00:07:52)_​
Washington is buzzing with news that John McCain is set to announce his vice-presidential selection soon. Mitt Romney is the odds-on favorite. Bobby Jindal, Timothy Pawlenty, and a host of others are also rumored to be in the Republican veep race. 

Despite the apparent closeness of this presidential contest, one does not have to be either a rocket scientist or a political scientist to realize that McCain faces long odds. Intuition, academic forecasts, and *even political futures markets all suggest that the election is Obama's to lose.* And this tells us something important about the vice-presidential candidate McCain should select. His steep challenge dictates a very unorthodox pick. 

*McCain needs to create buzz for his campaign and give voters a reason not to toss the Republicans out of the White House. *He should avoid the dubious conventional wisdom of picking someone with electoral votes in mind. McCain needs a bold, unconventional pick like Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin or Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal. Selecting Jindal certainly has advantages. He would add much-needed youth, diversity and vigor to the McCain camp. His selection would also go a long way toward exciting the conservative base that has long been wary of McCain. And it would help the Republican nominee's own attempt to be seen as an agent of change by picking a new face, and an Indian-American at that. 

However, it is Palin who could best ruin the predictions of the pundits, traders and forecasters. 
Palin, the 44-year-old mother of five and popular governor of Alaska, would add a lot to a Republican ticket that will face an uphill battle no matter who is picked.

 First, the* attractive young governor, like Jindal*, would provide much-needed energy and youth to a ticket whose main candidate is frequently on the receiving end of *"he's so old"* jokes. McCain should remember that this did not work out too well for Bob Dole, another senior war hero. 

Second, *Palin would give Hillary-voters frustrated by their candidate's loss and still unsure about Obama a reason to shift over to McCain. *And there is no doubt this former Miss Alaska pageant contestant would give red-blooded men in purple states like Ohio a reason to watch the vice-presidential debates. 

Third, Palin is as far from a Washington insider as you can get, given* she hails from Alaska and is a new face in Republican politics, untainted by any association with the Bush clan or the big-spending congressional Republicans. *

Fourth, and critically,* given the price of oil, Palin can help McCain focus on energy security, an issue that could be Obama's Achilles' heel* -- if the Republicans could overcome McCain's opposition to things like drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. The environment might be wildly popular on the coasts, but in the middle where this race will be won, a candidate who could credibly sell a plan for lower prices at the pump will move votes. 

But most important, Palin *could do something few Republicans seem interested in or able to do these days: Help fuse the two pillars of the Reagan Revolution, traditional conservatives and libertarian Republicans.* 
Palin *can win the hearts of conservatives, given her strong pro-life views -- views that were backed up with action this year when she gave birth to a son with Down's syndrome. *It would probably also help with these folks that her oldest son recently enlisted in the Army. And she can excite libertarian Republicans, given her fiscal conservatism as governor as well as her reputation for anti-corruption, love of guns and the outdoor life, and moderation on social issues other than abortion. 
In short, Palin will provide McCain the surge he needs to win his last battle. 
William Ruger is a political scientist at Texas State University and holds a Ph.D. in politics from Brandeis University. [/SIZE][/FONT]


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## busyLivin (Aug 29, 2008)

Dobson's now on board:
Dennis Prager :: Townhall.com :: Dobson: â?????I Would Pull that Leverâ??? for McCain-Palin

Just what I'm talking about.. She's going to rev up the base, and put them into full swing.  A lot of conservatives were lukewarm with McCain, but this pick does a lot to heal that division.

I'm really interested to see how she does debating Biden.


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## NeilPearson (Aug 29, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> Running a state?  Much more than legislating for one year.



Oh come on Alaska is barely a state...

... pro-live, thinks creationism should be taught in the classroom

I'm not voting for her or McCain but then again I'm a Canadian so I'm not voting at all.


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## NeilPearson (Aug 29, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> You're completing discarding what happened with Hillary.  She was dissed.  53% of voters in 2004 were women.  It's the first woman on a Republican ticket.  Generating a lot of buzz, potentially drowning out what happened this week.
> 
> It's different.



Hillary is hardly a woman...


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## maniclion (Aug 29, 2008)

Don't kid yourselves that anyone who had notions of electing Hilary would vote Conservative, those are your ultra-liberals they will either sit on their thumbs in front of the voting centers or pencil their queen in....


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## KelJu (Aug 29, 2008)

She is hot. Obama just lost my vote.


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## min0 lee (Aug 29, 2008)

The pot calling the kettle....what?

*Obama campaign highlights Palin's 'zero' experience* ​


Fri Aug 29, 2:11 PM ET 


Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on Friday congratulated Alaska Governor Sarah Palin on her selection as John McCain's running-mate, while a campaign spokesman highlighted her "zero" foreign policy experience.
In keeping with Obama's pledge to show respect for his rivals despite disagreements over policy, Obama and his running-mate Senator Joe Biden issued a statement congratulating the 44-year-old mother of five and her family.
"We send our congratulations to Governor Sarah Palin and her family on her designation as the Republican nominee for vice president. It is yet another encouraging sign that old barriers are falling in our politics," the statement said.
"While we obviously have differences over how best to lead this country forward Governor Palin is an admirable person and will add a compelling new voice to this campaign," it added.
Earlier, Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton blasted the choice and highlighted Palin's lack of foreign policy experience.
"Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency," Burton said in a statement.
Burton also criticized Palin as a vice presidential pick for her support of oil drilling in the Alaskan wilderness and her anti-abortion stance, referring to the 1973 Supreme Court decision that made abortion legal in the United States.
"Governor Palin shares John McCain's commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade, the agenda of Big Oil and continuing George Bush's failed economic policies. That's not the change we need, it's just more of the same," he said.
The choice of Palin was seen as a bold effort by McCain to attract disgruntled Democratic and independent supporters of Senator Hillary Clinton, who was defeated by Obama in the race to be the Democratic Party's presidential nominee.
Palin, a telegenic conservative, has led the oil-producing northwestern US state since December 2006 and was the first woman and youngest person to hold that state's top job.


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## busyLivin (Aug 29, 2008)

maniclion said:


> Don't kid yourselves that anyone who had notions of electing Hilary would vote Conservative, those are your ultra-liberals they will either sit on their thumbs in front of the voting centers or pencil their queen in....



Not at all,  I agree with you to some degree.  For them, I'm hoping they vote for McCain so Hillary can run in 2012 .  

However, some feminists hopefully will be so mad at how Hillary was treated, they vote for the man who did nominate a woman.  I don't expect it to be big numbers, but hopefully enough to do some damage.


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## busyLivin (Aug 29, 2008)

KelJu said:


> She is hot. Obama just lost my vote.


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## min0 lee (Aug 29, 2008)




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## min0 lee (Aug 29, 2008)

This will turn out well.....just like that one below did.


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## bio-chem (Aug 29, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> This will turn out well.....just like that one below did.



this is going to be extremely close


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## Big Smoothy (Aug 29, 2008)

Good points, by Witmaster.

I think McCain could have chosen a better pick.  (Just MO.)

But, as we get to hear her speak and debate and interview, we'll see more of her and see what she is "like."

Witmaster raised good points on her record.  

Still, I won't be voting for McCain-Palin.


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## Hoglander (Aug 29, 2008)

She is my age, hot, warm and fuzzy..... I do like her but not enough to make me sell my soul to the Devil. Very nice try though.


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## JerseyDevil (Aug 29, 2008)

Imagine that, being against big oil in Alaska.... Uh Exxon Valdez anyone?

From the initial reports, she is an impressive up and comer, but to be potentially the President of the US? Hmmm. I agree with those that point out how McCain speaks of Obama's inexperience, then selects a running mate with much less experience then Barrack.

My wife is 44, and I can guarantee she is WAY hotter then Palin, but I guess I am just lucky


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## Hoglander (Aug 29, 2008)

JerseyDevil said:


> Imagine that, being against big oil in Alaska.... Uh Exxon Valdez anyone?
> 
> From the initial reports, she is an impressive up and comer, but to be potentially the President of the US? Hmmm. I agree with those that point out how McCain speaks of Obama's inexperience, then selects a running mate with much less experience then Barrack.
> 
> My wife is 44, and I can guarantee she is WAY hotter then Palin, but I guess I am just lucky



Hey hold on there big dog. We are truly blessed.  I my wife is totally sweet at 44. It's rare though. I'm glad you're in the club. :  )  Seems you are not going to vote for the McSatan as well. You're giving me a boner.


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## busyLivin (Aug 29, 2008)

JerseyDevil said:


> From the initial reports, she is an impressive up and comer, but to be potentially the President of the US? Hmmm.



That's the big question.  The debate with Biden will make or break her.  Until then, she's an exciting candidate.. I have really high expectations.


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## JerseyDevil (Aug 29, 2008)

Hahaha.  Indeed.

I have my reservations about Obama... but no way am I going to vote for 4 more years of the same.   McCain is a good man, but I do not trust he will deviate from Bush's policies, although he promises to do so.  

IMO, the younger Bush will go down as one, if not the worst, President in history.


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## JerseyDevil (Aug 29, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> That's the big question. The debate with Biden will make or break her. Until then, she's an exciting candidate.. I have really high expectations.


 
Definitely agree. You are right, she is an exciting VP pick. This is going to be an interesting race. 

Somehow it is hard to imagine her getting the best of Biden in a debate on foreign policy, but one never knows, do one?


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## busyLivin (Aug 29, 2008)

JerseyDevil said:


> IMO, the younger Bush will go down as one, if not the worst, President in history.



Research Carter.


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## Crono1000 (Aug 29, 2008)

Hoglander said:


> She is my age, hot, warm and fuzzy..... I do like her but not enough to make me sell my soul to the Devil. Very nice try though.





this might have to go in my signature


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## JerseyDevil (Aug 29, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> Research Carter.


I said ONE of the worst. GDUB 2 gives Carter a run for his money for 1 and 2. At least Carter goes out and helps build houses for the poor....let's see what GDub does. That guy has never "worked" a day in his life...


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## min0 lee (Aug 29, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> Research Carter.


I didn't care for Carter but Bush in my eyes is worse.

I was a teenager when Carter was the President.


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## danzik17 (Aug 29, 2008)

What I wouldn't give for William Fallon to run for President.  That man is a modern day Teddy Roosevelt, and as much as it pains me to say it, currently more "electable" than Ron Paul.

4 more years of crap either way.  Come on 2012, we're counting on you to get here fast.


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## The Monkey Man (Aug 29, 2008)

dg806 said:


> she's a card-carrying lifetime member of the National Rifle Association, hunter and fisherman.
> She's got my vote.




Yah, if she were a member of the communist party she'd have my vote...
Some of my work is in defence oriented technical engineering...

If Obama gets into office i'll be out of a job in 6 months.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Aug 29, 2008)

Armchair analysis:

Perhaps....

McCain wanted to get as much of the Xtian right vote to the polls as possible.  They'd never vote for Obama, but they might stay home.

Aside from the Xtian right, I think most folks have made up their minds on who they're voting for already - except for some "undecidededs."  I have not seen the polling data.

As for Hillary supporters - the 11% that might have went for McCain according to some polls, will this pro-life/anti-abortion VP Palin cause McCain to lose some votes in such a tight race?

Hard to say.

I'm not sure this was a good move by McCain.


----------



## maniclion (Aug 30, 2008)

She supports drilling in Anwar while McCain doesn't, they'll use her as the scape goat when they allow them to drill so they can make good on the promise to use the taxes to give each American money to help with rising energy costs...more oil means more money to the oil co. or co's that get to drill there...


----------



## Dale Mabry (Aug 30, 2008)

JerseyDevil said:


> Imagine that, being against big oil in Alaska.... Uh Exxon Valdez anyone?
> 
> From the initial reports, she is an impressive up and comer, but to be potentially the President of the US? Hmmm. I agree with those that point out how McCain speaks of Obama's inexperience, then selects a running mate with much less experience then Barrack.
> 
> My wife is 44, and I can guarantee she is WAY hotter then Palin, but I guess I am just lucky



Hey JD, long time.


I am with Bio on this one.  I think he did go for the Hilary vote, but no way is he getting left-leaning feminists to vote for him because he picked a VP that is a woman, especially with her pro-life stance.  She is pretty hot, though.

IMO, I think she is a bad choice, and she isn't swinging more than a few votes his way.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Aug 30, 2008)

maniclion said:


> She supports drilling in Anwar while McCain doesn't, they'll use her as the scape goat when they allow them to drill so they can make good on the promise to use the taxes to give each American money to help with rising energy costs...more oil means more money to the oil co. or co's that get to drill there...



Off shore drilling and ANWAR is just election fake issues.  

It's good for the news.  The mainstream media ran with it for about a full month.

Silly.


----------



## busyLivin (Aug 30, 2008)

I think McCain's going for the independent women vote.  Check out this video from gallup:

Palinâ€™s Possible Impact

Basically says that Dems are voting for Obama, Republicans voting for McCain.  The female independent vote is split.  There is where he could make up ground with her.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Aug 30, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> I think McCain's going for the independent women vote.  Check out this video from gallup:
> 
> Palinï¿½â???¬â???¢s Possible Impact
> 
> Basically says that Dems are voting for Obama, Republicans voting for McCain.  The female independent vote is split.  There is where he could make up ground with her.



Possibly the slightly lesser informed independent female vote.  Any woman who is aware that one or more new justices will be appointed this time around won't risk losing Roe v. Wade.  At the end of the day, this one is going to be really close, so every little bit will help, but that is a big matza ball of women's rights that the female independents might not want to give up, and McCain showed where he stands with his pick.  I know he is for States to decide, but 8 years ago he was pro-choice.  I am just wondering how this whole thing is going to pan out, the reason for the pick was obvious, and that can work for or against McCain.


----------



## glennmo (Aug 30, 2008)

OK, flame away if you want , but I am tired of hearing we will be in for the same Bush politics if McCain is elected. Whether it is McCain or Obama it will be their politics. Anyone who actually buys into the President being the cause of everything our country is going through doesn't understand economics and the lag that occurs with a change in policy. For those who want to go back to Clinton's economics need to go back to preceeding administrations and give credit where it is due.His Presidency will likely go down in history as one of the worst.People need to look at other countries and see how our leaders are viewed . Not the same as we do .I haven't made up my mind yet so I'm not pro one way or another yet. But I do look through the hype. Like I said flame away .


----------



## min0 lee (Aug 30, 2008)

I don't even have a lit match to throw at you.


----------



## clemson357 (Aug 30, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> vice president doesnt mean shit. unless the president dies (and no one votes based on that possibility). No one votes for obama because of his vp pick and no one will vote for McCain because of his.



I am voting for McCain because of his VP pick.  Up until yesterday I was probably 80% likely to write in a libertarian, 20% likely to vote McCain depending on how much I hated Hussein by November.  Now I am voting for McCain.

Sarah Palin is solid.  She is from Alaska, she is a lifetime member of the NRA, she is more of a REFORMER even than McCain.  She ran corruption out of Alaska.  They had a Republican governor who was getting kick backs for building a bridge to nowhere, and she axed it.

It is exactly what this country needs.  It solidifies the Republican ticket as reforming the party.  It is most definitely not the type of ticket that we had when Al Gore ran after Bill Clinton.  Bush is a fuck up by anyone's standards.  He was a neo-con: big government, and interventionist foreign policy.  McCain-Palin is getting back to small government, low taxes, more freedom.


----------



## clemson357 (Aug 30, 2008)

2truSoldier said:


> I understand, but my point is Obama's choice for his VP pick was because he knows he lacks experience, that made his ticket stronger. Mccain choice does nothing for him, its just for votes.



Palin has more executive experience than Biden, McCain, and Obama combined.  The legislative branch is drastically different than the executive.  Its like being a shareholder v. being CEO.  The legislative branch is one vote among very many, and they are all career politicians; they are in it for their personal security which means they are all wishy-washy and 'you scratch my back I'll scratch yours.'  The executive is the leader, the motivator, the go-getter.  You've a short term limit, so your interest is actually what is good for the country rather than what is good for you.  It is a whole different ball game.

To be honest, I'd be happier with the ticket if it was Palin-McCain rather than McCain-Palin.


----------



## min0 lee (Aug 30, 2008)

clemson357 said:


> To be honest, I'd be happier with the ticket if it was Palin-McCain rather than McCain-Palin.


Wow! Now that's a statement.


----------



## KelJu (Aug 30, 2008)

clemson357 said:


> To be honest, I'd be happier with the ticket if it was Palin-McCain rather than McCain-Palin.




Who wouldn't? The reps would have the election in the bag if that were how it was.


----------



## busyLivin (Aug 30, 2008)

clemson357 said:


> Palin has more executive experience than Biden, McCain, and Obama combined.  The legislative branch is drastically different than the executive.




Interesting stat I heard today:  Obama has had a total of 140 working days in the senate.


----------



## bio-chem (Aug 31, 2008)

JerseyDevil said:


> I agree with those that point out how McCain speaks of Obama's inexperience, then selects a running mate with much less experience then Barrack.



your kidding right? you feel palin has "much less experience then barrack"? publicity does not equal experience. obama has been in a federal office for two years. none of which was executive.


----------



## maniclion (Sep 1, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> your kidding right? you feel palin has "much less experience then barrack"? publicity does not equal experience. obama has been in a federal office for two years. none of which was executive.


But he has been dealing with federal government and not just state government.


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 1, 2008)

maniclion said:


> But he has been dealing with federal government and not just state government.



This is such bullshit. He legislated for 140 days, voting down party lines & accomplishing nothing. 

She's been running a state for a year & a half and taken down her own party's corruption. That's "change" that Obama spews but never does anything about... especially with his VP pick.

It absolutely blows my mind that people can try to say he has more experience.  He's been campaigning for most of his term as senator.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 1, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> This is such bullshit. He legislated for 140 days, voting down party lines & accomplishing nothing.
> 
> She's been running a state for a year & a half and taken down her own party's corruption. That's "change" that Obama spews but never does anything about... especially with his VP pick.
> 
> It absolutely blows my mind that people can try to say he has more experience.  He's been campaigning for most of his term as senator.



When it comes to Obama, cold hard facts are no where to be seen.  They take him on faith.

Obama isn't running an election campaign, so much as he's running a church.  And he hasn't sacrificed shit.


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## Witmaster (Sep 1, 2008)

DOMS said:


> When it comes to Obama, cold hard facts are no where to be seen. They take him on faith.
> 
> Obama isn't running an election campaign, so much as he's running a church. And he hasn't sacrificed shit.


You are so right...

His speaches have the same alarming tone as a shady Charismatic Evangelist.  

'Obamianity' is the new "faith" of the democratic party.


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 1, 2008)

GOP VP candidate Palin's daughter is pregnant 
17-year-old Bristol to keep the child and marry the father


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## busyLivin (Sep 1, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> GOP VP candidate Palin's daughter is pregnant
> 17-year-old Bristol to keep the child and marry the father



Good for her...  much easier ways to handle the situation.


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 1, 2008)

The Christians would have a ball with this if she came from a Democratic family.


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## busyLivin (Sep 1, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> The Christians would have a ball with this if she came from a Democratic family.



I don't believe that for a second, and that's insulting.  Christians should be proud of her that she dealt with it appropriately by having the baby & marrying the father. She could have murdered the baby & swept the whole thing under the rug.


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## min0 lee (Sep 1, 2008)

Didn't mean to insult you.
I hope the young kids married because they wanted to and not because of any other reason.


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## min0 lee (Sep 1, 2008)

Obama on Palin



> Politico's Carrie Budoff Brown reports: At a press avail in Monroe, Mich., Barack Obama on Palin: "Back off these kinds of stories."
> 
> "I have said before and I will repeat again: People's families are off limits," Obama said. "And people's children are especially off-limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president. So I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. You know my mother had me when she was 18 and how a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn’t be a topic of our politics."
> 
> ...


----------



## DOMS (Sep 1, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> Obama on Palin



Ewwww...


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 1, 2008)

DOMS said:


> Ewwww...



Well, we almost had Obama on Mrs.  Biden


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## MtnBikerChk (Sep 1, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> GOP VP candidate Palin's daughter is pregnant
> 17-year-old Bristol to keep the child and marry the father



CNN reports that Palin supports abstinence education rather than sex ed.

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - Palin backed abstinence education « - Blogs from CNN.com

uh....yeah.  To quote all the other bloggers "how's that working out for ya?"


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## busyLivin (Sep 1, 2008)

MtnBikerChk said:


> CNN reports that Palin supports abstinence education rather than sex ed.
> 
> CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - Palin backed abstinence education ï¿½ - Blogs from CNN.com
> 
> uh....yeah.  To quote all the other bloggers "how's that working out for ya?"



 *Pathetically* low blow.  Real nice.


----------



## Splash Log (Sep 1, 2008)

YouTube Video











Sums up all my thoughts perfectly.


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## min0 lee (Sep 1, 2008)

MtnBikerChk said:


> CNN reports that Palin supports abstinence education rather than sex ed.
> 
> CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - Palin backed abstinence education ï¿½ - Blogs from CNN.com
> 
> uh....yeah. To quote all the other bloggers "how's that working out for ya?"


Those bloggers are having a field day with this.


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 1, 2008)

Splash Log said:


> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 That's the most pathetic video I've ever seen.


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 1, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> Those bloggers are having a field day with this.



The postings in that forum are disgusting.  To call her a failed mother because her child had premarital sex is outrageous, but typical.

I plan to teach abstinence to my children.  Sex means nothing to people anymore.  I applaud Palin's stance on teaching abstinence.  Unfortunately her child didn't apply it, but how this shines a bad light on Palin herself I just don't understand.  If anything it makes her look better to see how her daughter is handling it.  Show me a child that never ignores a parent's advice.

This may sound extremist these days, but I would never buy my daughter birth control, or my son a condom.  If they feel they are mature enough to have sex, they should be mature enough to get it themselves & pay for it themselves.  Too many people spoon-feed their children and they never learn anything for themselves.  This whole argument that "they're going to do it anyway" doesn't sit well with me at all.  I'm teaching sex is for marriage.. if they decide to not abide by that, that's their decision, but I will not be complicit in it.


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## clemson357 (Sep 1, 2008)

Splash Log said:


> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Anyone voting the same way as this fucking moron should be embarrassed.


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 1, 2008)

Splash Log said:


> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have always hated him, just something about him I dislike.
How he made it so far.......


----------



## Arnold (Sep 1, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> That's the most pathetic video I've ever seen.



here's a first, I agree with you 100%.


----------



## Splash Log (Sep 1, 2008)

YouTube Video











I vote diddy for prez


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## bio-chem (Sep 1, 2008)

Splash Log said:


> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"there are no black people in alaska, there are no crack heads in alaska."

this is diddy's argument against Palin? 

"ima gonna helf th youf vote"


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## bio-chem (Sep 1, 2008)

gas prices are too high if diddy flies commercial. the last thing i want is to be sitting next to that dumb ass ignorant mother fucker on a plane ride across the US.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 1, 2008)

Splash Log said:


> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Government name?  What a dumb ass fucking retard.  

It was the name his mother gave him.  I say that it was his mother that gave it to him because, statistically, he doesn't know who his father is.

He needs to get his moronic ass off that merry-go-round and put down the pipe.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 1, 2008)

DOMS said:


> Government name?  What a dumb ass fucking retard.
> 
> It was the name his mother gave him.  I say that it was his mother that gave it to him because, statistically, he doesn't know who his father is.
> 
> He needs to get his moronic ass off that merry-go-round and put down the pipe.



more evidence that that black people only look at color. the lame ass stupid fucker doesnt know his left from his right and thinks obama is the greatest thing since watermellon. if you asked him 10 questions on who has which policy i guarantee you he would not be able to pick out which policies obama stands for.


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## busyLivin (Sep 1, 2008)

Prince said:


> here's a first, I agree with you 100%.



I'll try not to let that happen again


----------



## Witmaster (Sep 2, 2008)

I think this whole turn of events is a blessing in disguise.

Everyone now wants to be so critical of Sarah Palin's position on Abstinance.  The critics all chide in and ask "how's that workin' out for ya?"

Well, I'll tell you.  It's working perfectly.

Just because young Bristol Palin has chosen not to heed her parent's counsel doesn't make the message any less true.  Now, young Bristol must live with the consequences of her actions and take her place among the hundreds of thousands of pregnant teenagers in this country.  The only difference is her entire life is about to be examined and broadcast on every major news network, chat room, gossip forum and blog for the world's review.  What an amazing burden for such a young girl.  Had she abstained, this would have never happened.  Lesson learned - the hard way.

To try and tie some off-handed argument that "Sex Education" could have averted all this is simply ludicrous.  We had sex ed when I was in high school and, guess what?  KIDS STILL HAD SEX!!  Does that make it right?  No.  Does it make them evil and reprehensible people?  Certainly not.  Reckless and Irresponcible? Perhaps.

It is estimated that around 750,000 teenagers will get pregnant each year.  Guess what - Sex Ed ISN'T going to stop this and the problem is not restricted to just families below the poverty line.  If you are a parent of a teenager, this could easily become your reality, no matter how hard you try.

Each of should stop and ask ourselves, "How old was my mother when I was born?"  We'll all have answers ranging across the spectrum.  Personally, my mother was 16.  She put me up for adoption.  I am grateful for the life she gave me when she chose to carry me full-term and give birth, rather than abort me.  I was reunited with her after 30 years.  It was wonderful and we are still very close friends.  Even if I had never met my mother I can still thank God for the fact that I was given the opportunity to live.  Life rocks.

There are some fools out there who will try and purvey the ludicrous idea that teen-pregnancy is the result of failed parenthood.  No.... not necessarily.  I'll grant you, there are some really bad parents out there who are responcible for screwed up kids, however, I believe true parenthood is demonstrated not only by what you teach your children, but how you respond to them in their time of need when they don't listen.  Do you embrace them in their time of need or do you cast them away to fend for themselves?

I applaud Sarah and her family in the way they have chosen to deal with this.


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 2, 2008)

Witmaster said:


> I think this whole turn of events is a blessing in disguise.
> 
> Everyone now wants to be so critical of Sarah Palin's position on Abstinance.  The critics all chide in and ask "how's that workin' out for ya?"
> 
> ...


----------



## MtnBikerChk (Sep 2, 2008)

Witmaster said:


> It is estimated that around 750,000 teenagers will get pregnant each year.  Guess what - Sex Ed ISN'T going to stop this and the problem is not restricted to just families below the poverty line.  If you are a parent of a teenager, this could easily become your reality, no matter how hard you try.



Did you get that from planned parenthood's website?  Planned Parenthood - Sex Education Issues

you missed the part about how sex ed also provides LIFE SAVING information with respect to stds.  

<snip>..... many teens are taught a strict abstinence-only program, which does not teach contraception and denies them potentially lifesaving information.


You're right.  Kids are going to do it anyway so why not give them the tools to protect themselves?

I don't think you can say people failed as parents just because their teen got knocked up/knocked someone up (or rather any single event).  This just happens to be a big one!


----------



## Witmaster (Sep 2, 2008)

MtnBikerChk said:


> Did you get that from planned parenthood's website? Planned Parenthood - Sex Education Issues
> 
> you missed the part about how sex ed also provides LIFE SAVING information with respect to stds.
> 
> ...


Actually, I got the statistics from Pregnant Teen Help - Teen Pregnancy Statistics, Prevention and Facts. 2 sources - same number.  they must be comparing notes.

You raise a good point about Sex Ed and Disease-prevention methods, but then, we weren't discussing disease were we? (Unless you consider an unexpected pregnancy to be an STD).

I'm not opposed to Sex Ed.  I am Opposed to parents who think Sex Ed is an acceptable reason to avoid talking to their kids about sex.  Parent's need to be involved and engage their children in this "taboo" subject.

Here's one interesting angle no one seems to be interested in entertaining:  Has anyone considered that young Bristol might actually be IN LOVE with the father of her child?  Could it possibly be that her sex was consensual because of her devout emotional commitment to this young man?  I submit that it's not beyond the realm of possibility.

No.... that doesn't sell as good.  Let's paint her up to be the promiscuous young adulterous daughter of a conservative Christian Republican Vice-presidential candidate.  THAT sells news (at least on CNN and MSNBC).


----------



## tucker01 (Sep 2, 2008)

Witmaster said:


> Here's one interesting angle no one seems to be interested in entertaining:  Has anyone considered that young Bristol might actually be IN LOVE with the father of her child?  Could it possibly be that her sex was consensual because of her devout emotional commitment to this young man?  I submit that it's not beyond the realm of possibility.



A 17 year old has no concept of love and parenthood.  As much as they may think they do.

BTW I could give two shits, that Palin's daughter got knocked up.  Shit happens to us all, politicians are no different, they aren't some omniscient presence.


----------



## Witmaster (Sep 2, 2008)

IainDaniel said:


> A 17 year old has no concept of love and parenthood. *As much as they may think they do*.


I'll be the first to admit, at 17, I had absolutely no concept of "Love" and I sure as hell had no concept of parenthood.

However, I'm not going to lump all the 17-year olds into that category just because they are young and inexperienced.

Sure, kids have a lot to learn about love that that doesn't render them incapable of being IN love.

And parenthhod?  That's a whole nuther animal alltogether.  There's only so much you can learn from books and Dr. Phil.  Some things you have to experience for yourself.  I'm sure you can attest to that.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 2, 2008)

preach it brother Wit. your posts in this thread have been spot on.


----------



## ZECH (Sep 2, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> Interesting stat I heard today:  Obama has had a total of 140 working days in the senate.



Glad you brought this up.....


Someone did the math.  Obama the Senator.  He has only been a Senator for 18 months.  But with all the recesses, four day weekends, campaigning and absences, Obama has only spent about 6 weeks of workdays on the Senate floor as one of the most junior Senators.  Most of his votes, about 80% when he was not absent, have been 'present' or 'abstain'.  He also chairs a committee that has never met because the chairman has never called a meeting.  As a trial lawyer he only tried 14 cases in court - and minor ones at that.  As a 'community organizer' his major cause was getting the asbestos out of a housing project.  After 2 years of trying, the asbestos was still there when he left and is still there even now that he is a Senator and presumably has some pull to get things done.

That's it.   His entire real world work resume: 6 weeks work in the Senate with nothing to show for it.  Two years as a lawyer and only 14 minor trials.   And two years as a 'community organizer' with nothing accomplished.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 2, 2008)

dg806 said:


> Glad you brought this up.....
> 
> 
> Someone did the math.  Obama the Senator.  He has only been a Senator for 18 months.  But with all the recesses, four day weekends, campaigning and absences, Obama has only spent about 6 weeks of workdays on the Senate floor as one of the most junior Senators.  Most of his votes, about 80% when he was not absent, have been 'present' or 'abstain'.  He also chairs a committee that has never met because the chairman has never called a meeting.  As a trial lawyer he only tried 14 cases in court - and minor ones at that.  As a 'community organizer' his major cause was getting the asbestos out of a housing project.  After 2 years of trying, the asbestos was still there when he left and is still there even now that he is a Senator and presumably has some pull to get things done.
> ...


time to hand over the launch codes. we have a winner


----------



## Jodi (Sep 2, 2008)

Palin = pro-life, against sex education, wants her 17 year old daughter to marry the father  Oh we all know how that marriage will go.  

The prolife thing is enough for me to NOT vote Republican!  I was still unsure but I don't like Palin, think I'm going Dem.


----------



## Splash Log (Sep 2, 2008)

Jodi said:


> Palin = pro-life, against sex education, wants her 17 year old daughter to marry the father  Oh we all know how that marriage will go.
> 
> The prolife thing is enough for me to NOT vote Republican!  I was still unsure but I don't like Palin, think I'm going Dem.



At least she is sexy, dont you agree?


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 2, 2008)

Jodi said:


> Palin =  wants her 17 year old daughter to marry the father  Oh we all know how that marriage will go.



The story said they were getting married... it never said Sarah was making her daughter do anything.  To assume anyone outside the family has any idea how the "marriage will go" is ignorant, insensitive & disgustingly rude.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 2, 2008)

Jodi said:


> Palin = pro-life, against sex education, wants her 17 year old daughter to marry the father  Oh we all know how that marriage will go.
> 
> The prolife thing is enough for me to NOT vote Republican!  I was still unsure but I don't like Palin, think I'm going Dem.



so you're anti pro-life?


----------



## Jodi (Sep 2, 2008)

I'm pro-choice but I obviously don't rule that as my only political view when choosing a candidate.  I've been going back and forth with McCain and Obama but I really feel McCain didn't choose right in his VP decision so I'll probably either do write in or Obama.  Come to think of it, I've never like any Republican candidates and McCain was the first I even considered to vote for.


----------



## ZECH (Sep 2, 2008)

Jodi said:


> I'm pro-choice but I obviously don't rule that as my only political view when choosing a candidate.  I've been going back and forth with McCain and Obama but I really feel McCain didn't choose right in his VP decision so I'll probably either do write in or Obama.  Come to think of it, I've never like any Republican candidates and McCain was the first I even considered to vote for.



If he had picked any others, would you have voted for him?


----------



## Jodi (Sep 2, 2008)

Not sure, it would depend on the candidate.  I didn't start reading about the VP's until after their picks so I'm not familiar with the other options.  My biggest fear with McCain is him croaking in office, which is likely.  That's why he needs a good running mate and I'll be damned if I helped put that crazy chick Palin in office.


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 2, 2008)

Jodi said:


> Not sure, it would depend on the candidate.  I didn't start reading about the VP's until after their picks so I'm not familiar with the other options.  My biggest fear with McCain is him croaking in office, which is likely.  That's why he needs a good running mate and I'll be damned if I helped put that crazy chick Palin in office.



You call her crazy for being pro-life & pro-abstinence... but so is John McCain.  Why is she crazy & he's not?


----------



## Jodi (Sep 2, 2008)

She's currently being investigated for using her public office position to settle a private score with her former brother-in-law.

She went against Mine Safety and Pollution Control

She wants Creationism taught in Science Class

No foreign policy experience

She supports hunting black bear cubs and aerial hunting wolves

She claimed before she would force her daughter to give birth to a rapists child if she ever had to.

And she's not crazy?  Come on.......


----------



## Jodi (Sep 2, 2008)

Oh and lets not dismiss the fact she also wanted to censor a PUBLIC library and remove books with inappropriate pictures and language.

Oh yeah!  I want her running our country


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 2, 2008)

Jodi said:


> I'm pro-choice but I obviously don't rule that as my only political view when choosing a candidate.  I've been going back and forth with McCain and Obama but I really feel McCain didn't choose right in his VP decision so I'll probably either do write in or Obama.  Come to think of it, I've never like any Republican candidates and McCain was the first I even considered to vote for.



so you prefer McCain to obama, but will vote for obama because you don't like the republican VP candidate?


----------



## Jodi (Sep 2, 2008)

Nope I never preferred one over the other.  They were on even level with me until the VP pick.  I could have voted either way but not anymore.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 2, 2008)

Jodi said:


> No foreign policy experience



you won't support a VP candidate with not foreign policy experience, yet you would support a presidential candidate with no foreign policy experience?


----------



## Jodi (Sep 2, 2008)

Did I say I was voting for Obama?  No I never did, I said I will either write it OR vote for Obama.  One thing for sure is that McCain is not getting my vote.

Either way its the whole package.  Which one do I think is better.  Neither one of them are perfect and have everything they need to run our country.  I can tell you what I don't want and that's what the McCain/Palin package is bringing.


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 2, 2008)

She is really conservative. I expect that to turn some people off, but to me she's ideal. 

While I unfortunately feel/fear Obama will win this election (thanks to the uninformed), I still think she can be on the top of the ticket in 4/8 years.


----------



## Jodi (Sep 2, 2008)

OMG I almost forgot one of the best ones:

Palin was on a board (Alaskan Independence Party) and voted for Alaska secession from the US.  And now she wants to be VP???????


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 2, 2008)

I'm already a grandparent, she was pregnant at 16 and gave birth at 17.
One parent  was for Abstinance the other was for sex-ed..
who won (or lost) the battle......we were no match for a horny teenage girl.

The low life boyfriend is long gone (thank god) and now we are raising the baby.

Where am I going with this..


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 2, 2008)

Jodi said:


> OMG I almost forgot one of the best ones:
> 
> Palin was on a board (Alaskan Independence Party) and voted for Alaska secession from the US.  And now she wants to be VP???????



Where are you getting this stuff?

did you also know that a former president of the united states served in the congress of the confederacy?


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 2, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> I'm already a grandparent, she was pregnant at 16 and gave birth at 17.
> One parent  was for Abstinance the other was for sex-ed..
> who won (or lost) the battle......we were no match for a horny teenage girl.
> 
> ...



how old is the child now? if you don't mind my asking? otherwise tell me to shut up. im cool with that and will take no offense


----------



## Jodi (Sep 2, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> Where are you getting this stuff?
> 
> did you also know that a former president of the united states served in the congress of the confederacy?


If you google every point I made you will find a ton of information on all of them.


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 2, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> how old is the child now? if you don't mind my asking? otherwise tell me to shut up. im cool with that and will take no offense


*Shut up!!* I always wanted to tell you that, thanks for the freebie. 


The baby is 15 months old.


----------



## NeilPearson (Sep 2, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> so you're anti pro-life?



I am anti pro-life


----------



## NeilPearson (Sep 2, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> You call her crazy for being pro-life & pro-abstinence... but so is John McCain.  Why is she crazy & he's not?



... fine they are both crazy

She even wants to teach creationism in school.


----------



## NeilPearson (Sep 2, 2008)

Jodi said:


> OMG I almost forgot one of the best ones:
> 
> Palin was on a board (Alaskan Independence Party) and voted for Alaska secession from the US.  And now she wants to be VP???????



She has an infant child of her own too doesn't she?...

I am not sure anyone should be taking on two commitments as time consuming as raising an infant and being VP


----------



## Jodi (Sep 2, 2008)

NeilPearson said:


> She has an infant child of her own too doesn't she?...
> 
> I am not sure anyone should be taking on two commitments as time consuming as raising an infant and being VP


Young child, 1 or 2 I think and he has Downs Syndrome.


----------



## NeilPearson (Sep 2, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> I don't believe that for a second, and that's insulting.  Christians should be proud of her that she *dealt with it appropriately* by having the baby & marrying the father. She could have murdered the baby & swept the whole thing under the rug.



Hmmm.... if marrying the father is an appropriate way of dealing with this then using your last $5000 to buy lottery tickets is a good way of dealing with financial troubles.


----------



## NeilPearson (Sep 2, 2008)

Jodi said:


> Young child, 1 or 2 I think and he has Downs Syndrome.



Oh I am sure he won't take up any of her time or energy... either will the new grandchild


----------



## NeilPearson (Sep 2, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> Didn't mean to insult you.
> I hope the young kids married because they wanted to and not because of any other reason.



Kids marrying at 17 because they want to is a retarded reason.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 2, 2008)

NeilPearson said:


> I am anti pro-life



you're also hopeless


----------



## Jodi (Sep 2, 2008)

NeilPearson said:


> Oh I am sure he won't take up any of her time or energy... either will the new grandchild


Sorry you were right, her son is only 4 months old but yeah he has Downs.


----------



## NeilPearson (Sep 2, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> *Pathetically* low blow.  Real nice.



I totally disagree... if you support suppressing education, you deserve that kind of criticism.  Especially when your own policy could very well be responsible for the situation.

Nothing low about it


----------



## NeilPearson (Sep 2, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> The postings in that forum are disgusting.  To call her a failed mother because her child had premarital sex is outrageous, but typical.
> 
> I plan to teach abstinence to my children.  Sex means nothing to people anymore.  I applaud Palin's stance on teaching abstinence.  Unfortunately her child didn't apply it, but how this shines a bad light on Palin herself I just don't understand.  If anything it makes her look better to see how her daughter is handling it.  Show me a child that never ignores a parent's advice.
> 
> This may sound extremist these days, but I would never buy my daughter birth control, or my son a condom.  If they feel they are mature enough to have sex, they should be mature enough to get it themselves & pay for it themselves.  Too many people spoon-feed their children and they never learn anything for themselves.  This whole argument that "they're going to do it anyway" doesn't sit well with me at all.  I'm teaching sex is for marriage.. if they decide to not abide by that, that's their decision, but I will not be complicit in it.



Enjoy raising your grandchildren 

(Now that was a low blow)

If you knew ANYTHING about kids today, you would know they are most likely going to do it.  Not giving them options is just setting yourself and them up for failure


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 2, 2008)

NeilPearson said:


> I am not sure anyone should be taking on two commitments as time consuming as raising an infant and being VP


I don't think she's going to raise them, these people usually hire nannys to raise them.


----------



## NeilPearson (Sep 2, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> you're also hopeless



nope, just not a disillusioned moron


----------



## NeilPearson (Sep 2, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> I don't think she's going to raise them, these people usually hire nannys to raise them.



Yup, that is much more responsible


----------



## DaMayor (Sep 2, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> I don't think she's going to raise them, these people usually hire nannys to raise them.



Yep. 

Besides, A child with downs syndrome is going to require more than just "raising" anyway. I'm sure they have the resurces to provide their child with everything he needs.


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 2, 2008)

NeilPearson said:


> Enjoy raising your grandchildren
> 
> (Now that was a low blow)
> 
> If you knew ANYTHING about kids today, you would know they are most likely going to do it.  Not giving them options is just setting yourself and them up for failure



I already answered that.  I'm not an idiot, but I'm not taking part in it. Just like my kids will probably try weed, I'm not going to supply it or give the impression that it's ok.

If they have children, they will raise them.  Unlike too many parents today, my children will be held accountable for their mistakes.. I'm not bailing them out. Of course I would help them, but they will be responsible for their actions... the way it use to be done before the 60's came along & nobody was responsible for anything anymore.


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 2, 2008)

NeilPearson said:


> I totally disagree... if you support suppressing education, you deserve that kind of criticism.  Especially when your own policy could very well be responsible for the situation.
> 
> Nothing low about it



It's a low blow to go after someone's child when you know nothing about their household, nothing about their upbringing, nothing about their child, nothing period. You're making assumptions that you have no possible way of knowing.


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 2, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> I don't think she's going to raise them, these people usually hire nannys to raise them.



no way to know that either.


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 2, 2008)

NeilPearson said:


> Yup, that is much more responsible


Why bother with having kids.


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 2, 2008)

DaMayor said:


> Yep.
> 
> Besides, A child with downs syndrome is going to require more than just "raising" anyway. I'm sure they have the resurces to provide their child with everything he needs.


I admire that, I hope he lives a good life.
If I knew I was going to be born with Downs Syndrome I would rather not be born, it's no way to live.


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 2, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> Why bother with having kids.



Are you asking why Sarah Palin even has kids because she's having a nanny take care of them?  That wasn't even established! Geez...this line of thinking is better suited for the daily kos.


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 2, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> no way to know that either.


Nope, but just like we as humans like to stereotype the poor, the minorities we can also do the same with the rich. 
They mostly have nannys raise them, send them away to summer camp.


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 2, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> Are you asking why Sarah Palin even has kids because she's having a nanny take care of them? That wasn't even established! Geez...this line of thinking is better suited for the daily kos.


No, this was not about her.
I was answering Neil.

Go back and read my post about me being a Grandparent with a teenager, Sarah has commited no crime.


----------



## AKIRA (Sep 2, 2008)

If I was Sarah (or her husband), Id hire someone to take care of the kids.  Fuck, why not?


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 2, 2008)

AKIRA said:


> If I was Sarah (or her husband), Id hire someone to take care of the kids. Fuck, why not?


She is going to be very busy from here on out, she will need help raising her kids.


----------



## DaMayor (Sep 2, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> She is going to be very busy from here on out, she will need help raising her kids.



I imagine she was pretty busy to begin with. Either way....nanny, school teacher, baby sitter....We don't raise our kids completely anyway. (Not that we don't want to, of course)


----------



## MtnBikerChk (Sep 2, 2008)

Jodi said:


> Sorry you were right, her son is only 4 months old but yeah he has Downs.




I read a total rumor on the intarweb that suggested the baby was actually the 17 year old daughter's baby and that Pali and her husband were raising as their own.

Now wouldn't THAT be the death of the Republican ticket?  LOL

'but you ain't heard that from me cuz I ain't one to gossip!  No sirre- that  Ms. Jenkins is a saint!


----------



## Jodi (Sep 2, 2008)

MtnBikerChk said:


> I read a total rumor on the intarweb that suggested the baby was actually the 17 year old daughter's baby and that Pali and her husband were raising as their own.
> 
> Now wouldn't THAT be the death of the Republican ticket?  LOL
> 
> 'but you ain't heard that from me cuz I ain't one to gossip!  No sirre- that  Ms. Jenkins is a saint!


Yeah I read that too but its such a 'rumor' that its not something that will sway my decision.

Now one thing I did read is that the completed investigation to her abusing her power in office is going to be completed and announced 5 days before election and that could seriously harm the Republicans.  Stupid for McCain to choose her.


----------



## clemson357 (Sep 2, 2008)

NeilPearson said:


> She has an infant child of her own too doesn't she?...
> 
> I am not sure anyone should be taking on two commitments as time consuming as raising an infant and being VP




This what I love about liberals.  You get so high and mighty about being progressive and caring.  You claim responsibility for the civil rights revolution, and women's sexual revolution.  Then, when it suits your purpose, you assert that a woman with kids can't get the job done.  It is pretty fucking shameful.


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 2, 2008)

clemson357 said:


> This what I love about liberals. You get so high and mighty about being progressive and caring. You claim responsibility for the civil rights revolution, and women's sexual revolution. Then, when it suits your purpose, you assert that a woman with kids can't get the job done. It is pretty fucking shameful.


I would bet anything if Palin were a Democrat you  would be on this like flies on shit.

Hillary caught so much crap because her husband played her dirty....Hillary didn't stick that cigar up that fat turd twat, it was Bill!


----------



## clemson357 (Sep 2, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> I would bet anything if Palin were a Democrat you  would be on this like flies on shit.
> 
> Hillary caught so much crap because her husband played her dirty....Hillary didn't stick that cigar up that fat turd twat, it was Bill!



Hillary caught crap for staying with a man who cheated on her for a decade.  Hardly comparable to having a child.


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 2, 2008)

clemson357 said:


> Hillary caught crap for staying with a man who cheated on her for a decade. Hardly comparable to having a child.


Remember this is the media and the Democrats talking about how she raised her child, how could Parlin let this happen.

Mind you I went through the same thing.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 2, 2008)

clemson357 said:


> This what I love about liberals.  You get so high and mighty about being progressive and caring.  You claim responsibility for the civil rights revolution, and women's sexual revolution.  Then, when it suits your purpose, you assert that a woman with kids can't get the job done.  It is pretty fucking shameful.





"These are the sensitive liberal people who are always yelling about everybodyâ??????s freedom of speech and expression. Unless you say something that pisses them off!

Then they canâ??????t wait to tie your ass to the back bumper of a Toyota Hybrid and drag you to the Berkeley Campus and drop your carcass in front of the Fidel Castro Building for the Continuing Study of Why America Sucks!" - Richard Jeni


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 2, 2008)

clemson357 said:


> This what I love about liberals.  You get so high and mighty about being progressive and caring.  You claim responsibility for the civil rights revolution, and women's sexual revolution.  Then, when it suits your purpose, you assert that a woman with kids can't get the job done.  It is pretty fucking shameful.



Damn right.


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 2, 2008)

Is Neil a liberal?  Are you Neil?


> that a woman with kids can't get the job done.


 
That's not true, while it may be hard but I've worked part time, went to school, trained and then cooked for the family.
It does help when your spouse does their end.


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 2, 2008)

*Bill O'Reilly on teen pregnancies*​
*by kos *

*Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 01:50:28 PM PDT*

He was for blaming the parents before he was against it.


> On the pinhead front, 16-year-old Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant. The sister of Britney says she is shocked. I bet.
> Now most teens are pinheads in some ways. But here the blame falls primarily on the parents of the girl, who obviously have little control over her or even over Britney Spears. Look at the way she behaves.


Last night, O'Reilly was beside himself that anyone would publicly discuss Bristol Palin's pregnancy.
Then again, hypocrite extraordinaire O'Reilly never met a glass house he didn't shatter.


----------



## ALBOB (Sep 2, 2008)

clemson357 said:


> This what I love about liberals.  You get so high and mighty about being progressive and caring.  You claim responsibility for the civil rights revolution, and women's sexual revolution.  Then, when it suits your purpose, you assert that a woman with kids can't get the job done.  It is pretty fucking shameful.



It's even deeper than that.  Aren't liberals the champions of minorities, especially women?  But listen to the questions they're asking, "Can she possibly be a good Veep and raise a family at the same time?  How can she possibly take care of a Down Syndrom child and be a heartbeat away from the Oval Office?"  What a crock.  Liberals have been screaming about the ability of women to do that for decades, but now that one is actually doing it they're up in arms because she's from the wrong side of the aisle.  Would you hear this same question from liberals if it was Mr. Palin who was running?  Nope, not a peep.  Dumbass hypocrites.  It's no coincidence that Liberal and Loser both begin with an L.


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 2, 2008)

*Not mine*


----------



## danzik17 (Sep 2, 2008)

ALBOB said:


> It's even deeper than that.  Aren't liberals the champions of minorities, especially women?  But listen to the questions they're asking, "Can she possibly be a good Veep and raise a family at the same time?  How can she possibly take care of a Down Syndrom child and be a heartbeat away from the Oval Office?"  What a crock.  Liberals have been screaming about the ability of women to do that for decades, but now that one is actually doing it they're up in arms because she's from the wrong side of the aisle.  Would you hear this same question from liberals if it was Mr. Palin who was running?  Nope, not a peep.  Dumbass hypocrites.  It's no coincidence that *Liberal and Loser both begin with an L*.



And it's no coincidence that Republican and Retard begin with an R?  I can play that game too 

Stop squabbling over petty details and look at her past accomplishments and failures as governor.  In my opinion she isn't fit for this level of leadership, but then again neither is McCain or Obama.


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 2, 2008)

Liberals! Defend yourselves!


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 2, 2008)

danzik17 said:


> And it's no coincidence that Republican and Retard begin with an R? I can play that game too
> 
> Stop squabbling over petty details and look at her past accomplishments and failures as governor. In my opinion she isn't fit for this level of leadership, but then again neither is McCain or Obama.


 


min0 lee said:


> Liberals! Defend yourselves!


Oh, someone did.


----------



## danzik17 (Sep 2, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> Oh, someone did.



Nah I'm not liberal at all.  I'm more conservative than most people (real conservative, not the fake bullshit that has been passed off as conservative lately).

I just like to point out the idiocy of people squabbling about liberal vs conservatism instead of using rational debate or as I said, looking as past achievements to determine a person's fitness to lead.  Just because I'm conservative doesn't mean that I wouldn't approve of a good liberal idea if they were able to prove that it would be financially sound and not affect us as a whole with more taxes (which isn't possible at the moment, hence why I don't have to worry about it right now)


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 2, 2008)

This would be an injustice if it happened.



*Intrade market sees 12 pct chance Palin withdrawn*

United States - By Daniel Trotta 
NEW YORK (Reuters) - The online prediction market Intrade sees an 12 percent chance Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin will be withdrawn as the Republican vice presidential nominee before the U.S. presidential election on Nov. 4.
Intrade accepts trades on the probability of events such as whether there will be a recession, whether the U.S. Congress will lift the ban on offshore drilling or whether the United States or Israel will launch a military strike on Iran..........


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 2, 2008)

danzik17 said:


> Nah I'm not liberal at all. I'm more conservative than most people (real conservative, not the fake bullshit that has been passed off as conservative lately).
> 
> I just like to point out the idiocy of people squabbling about liberal vs conservatism instead of using rational debate or as I said, looking as past achievements to determine a person's fitness to lead. *Just because I'm conservative doesn't mean that I wouldn't approve of a good liberal idea* if they were able to prove that it would be financially sound and not affect us as a whole with more taxes (which isn't possible at the moment, hence why I don't have to worry about it right now)


 I think if one party had the cure for AIDS the other party would bitch and moan about it how it's fake and it doesn't work....blah blah blah


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 2, 2008)

2008:  The year the media died:












This is outrageous. If only people weren't so stupid to believe this shit... Note: editor is a "major donor" for the Obama campaign.


----------



## TexanTA1996 (Sep 2, 2008)

Splash Log said:


> Meh, what a shit pick.



It's a perfect pick.  Her main flaw is that she's inexperienced.  Liberals can't criticize her for being inexperienced when their own presidential candidate is guilty of the same flaw.  She'll also capture some of the feminist votes that will go to anyone who is female.  Great pick when all is considered.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 3, 2008)

Are you kidding?  That's just the result of a balanced, unbiased media.  It's also a clear sign that there is no liberal bias in the media.

On a side note, Us needs to work on their cover layouts.  It almost reads as if Mrs. Obama "never misses the girls' rectals."



busyLivin said:


> 2008:  The year the media died:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 3, 2008)

clemson357 said:


> This what I love about liberals.  You get so high and mighty about being progressive and caring.  You claim responsibility for the civil rights revolution, and women's sexual revolution.  Then, when it suits your purpose, you assert that a woman with kids can't get the job done.  It is pretty fucking shameful.



I think this is pretty dead on.

On a side note, if the roles were reversed, the GOP would be doing the same bullshit.  It is partisan politics as usual, one side outraged, the other outraged over the outrage, so fucking stupid.

Also, IMO, if McCain could somehow show he wouldn't just be following in GW Bush's footsteps, this would be a landslide.  He has failed to do so, and in doing that, people are calling him unexperienced.  I think, as far as experience goes, he is up to the job.  I just think the way he plans to do the job is wrong.  Now, I get that peeps will say how the fuck do I know better than him?  Honestly, I shouldn't, but I have been awake for the past 8 years and know that 4 more of the same is not going to work.  If Ron Paul were in I would vote for him, but it is just a throw away vote at this point.


----------



## ZECH (Sep 3, 2008)

Jodi said:


> OMG I almost forgot one of the best ones:
> 
> Palin was on a board (Alaskan Independence Party) and voted for Alaska secession from the US.  And now she wants to be VP???????



Source??
Her husband once belonged to a fringe political group in Alaska, with some of its members supporting secession from the United States. I don't think it was her.


----------



## 2truSoldier (Sep 3, 2008)

dg806 said:


> Source??
> Her husband once belonged to a fringe political group in Alaska, with some of its members supporting secession from the United States. I don't think it was her.



Jodi was correct Gov Palin and her husband were members of the AIP. Damn
Political Punch


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 3, 2008)

I find it particularly funny that there are all these questions and accusations about McCain's vetting, when Obama didn't even bother to vet a candidate that received 18 million votes.


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 3, 2008)

2truSoldier said:


> Jodi was correct Gov Palin and her husband were members of the AIP. Damn
> Political Punch



Nope.

Palin And The AIP: Update, By Hilzoy - CBS News


----------



## 2truSoldier (Sep 3, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> Nope.
> 
> Palin And The AIP: Update, By Hilzoy - CBS News



Typical Politico


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 3, 2008)

2truSoldier said:


> Typical Politico



The left is scared to death of Palin, and for good reason. They'll do anything thing they can.. SAY anything they can to tear her down.  If she survives it, she'll not only be the VP next year, but the next elected President after McCain.


----------



## 2truSoldier (Sep 3, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> The left is scared to death of Palin, and for good reason. They'll do anything thing they can.. SAY anything they can to tear her down.  If she survives it, she'll not only be the VP next year, but the next elected President after McCain.


----------



## Jodi (Sep 3, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> Nope.
> 
> Palin And The AIP: Update, By Hilzoy - CBS News


The AIP have no reason to lie.  Plus SHE never said she wasn't, McCain's campaign said she wasn't.  Do you really think they are going to admit she was in the AIP?


----------



## Jodi (Sep 3, 2008)

Way to go Palin! 

Palin Slashed Funding for Teen Moms | The Trail | washingtonpost.com

Can't have an abortion and you can't have any help so now the poor girls, who DID opt to keep their baby because they felt it was the right thing to do, receives less help.  Its hypocritical!


----------



## Jodi (Sep 3, 2008)

dg806 said:


> Source??
> Her husband once belonged to a fringe political group in Alaska, with some of its members supporting secession from the United States. I don't think it was her.


Sarah Palin's ties to Alaskan Independence Party are played down - Los Angeles Times
TPM Election Central | Talking Points Memo | Founder Of Group Palin Courted Professed "Hatred For The American Government"; Cursed "Damn Flag"


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 3, 2008)

It is kind of interesting that this VP pick is getting so much attention. Im actually really very surprised. that people wouldn't vote for a ticket based on the inexperience of the VP nomination when the opponents presidential nomination has the same flaw. it seems that it has really taken a lot of the heat off McCain being "just like bush" which in actuality is more ridiculous than any other smear levied on either side of this election.


----------



## maniclion (Sep 3, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> The left is scared to death of Palin, and for good reason. They'll do anything thing they can.. SAY anything they can to tear her down.  If she survives it, she'll not only be the VP next year, but the next elected President after McCain.


I've seen the same mudslinging from the right.  I have been pretty much as far out on this election as I can get trying to analyze why we keep getting deeper and deeper into shit and I realize that as each side reaches down to grab shit to throw at the other they drop deeper into their own pile of crap....all of the petty gossip has got to go.


----------



## NeilPearson (Sep 3, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> Is Neil a liberal?  Are you Neil?
> 
> 
> That's not true, while it may be hard but I've worked part time, went to school, trained and then cooked for the family.
> It does help when your spouse does their end.



No I am not a liberal


----------



## Jodi (Sep 3, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> It is kind of interesting that this VP pick is getting so much attention. Im actually really very surprised. that people wouldn't vote for a ticket based on the inexperience of the VP nomination when the opponents presidential nomination has the same flaw. it seems that it has really taken a lot of the heat off McCain being "just like bush" which in actuality is more ridiculous than any other smear levied on either side of this election.


I'm not an Obama advocate either so I'm pretty biased in my opinion.  McCain is O L D!  It wont surprise me if he kicks it in office.  I do NOT want this woman our president at all!  She will destroy this country with her outlandish ideas and opinions.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 3, 2008)

Jodi said:


> She will destroy this country with her outlandish ideas and opinions.



You make it sound as if Alaska has already been destroyed and the rest of the US is next. 

John Adams once said that the VP position was the most worthless elected position ever conceived of man. Again im very surprised the issue has turned to a VP pick. Im hardly basing my vote on McCain potentially dieing. Not electing McCain because you think his VP pick is bad all the while knowing his opponent in the position just seems like back ward logic to me.


----------



## maniclion (Sep 3, 2008)

Jodi said:


> I'm not an Obama advocate either so I'm pretty biased in my opinion.  McCain is O L D!  It wont surprise me if he kicks it in office.  I do NOT want this woman our president at all!  She will destroy this country with her outlandish ideas and opinions.


Yes McCain's choice for VP matters big time as old as he is and with his history of skin cancer he has a greater chance of passing in office than Obama has getting picked off by the great white hype....


----------



## Jodi (Sep 3, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> You make it sound as if Alaska has already been destroyed and the rest of the US is next.
> 
> John Adams once said that the VP position was the most worthless elected position ever conceived of man. Again im very surprised the issue has turned to a VP pick. Im hardly basing my vote on McCain potentially dieing. Not electing McCain because you think his VP pick is bad all the while knowing his opponent in the position just seems like back ward logic to me.


Again, you assume I'm voting for Obama....

I feel the VP position is very important because if anything happens to our president be it death, surgery, incapacitated etc. the VP takes over.  How can you NOT feel it's important?


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 3, 2008)

Dale Mabry said:


> I think this is pretty dead on.
> 
> On a side note, if the roles were reversed, the GOP would be doing the same bullshit.  It is partisan politics as usual, one side outraged, the other outraged over the outrage, so fucking stupid.
> 
> Also, IMO, if McCain could somehow show he wouldn't just be following in GW Bush's footsteps, this would be a landslide.  He has failed to do so, and in doing that, people are calling him unexperienced.  I think, as far as experience goes, he is up to the job.  I just think the way he plans to do the job is wrong.  Now, I get that peeps will say how the fuck do I know better than him?  Honestly, I shouldn't, but I have been awake for the past 8 years and know that 4 more of the same is not going to work.  If Ron Paul were in I would vote for him, but it is just a throw away vote at this point.



I endorse this post.


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 3, 2008)

Jodi said:


> Way to go Palin!
> 
> Palin Slashed Funding for Teen Moms | The Trail | washingtonpost.com
> 
> Can't have an abortion and you can't have any help so now the poor girls, who DID opt to keep their baby because they felt it was the right thing to do, receives less help.  Its hypocritical!



That's not right.



NeilPearson said:


> No I am not a liberal



Youv'e been painted here as one, it's a trend here....don't agree with everything they say and all of the sudden your a liberal....damn Nazis!



maniclion said:


> I've seen the same mudslinging from the right. .



So true.


----------



## KelJu (Sep 3, 2008)

Jodi said:


> Way to go Palin!
> 
> Palin Slashed Funding for Teen Moms | The Trail | washingtonpost.com
> 
> Can't have an abortion and you can't have any help so now the poor girls, who DID opt to keep their baby because they felt it was the right thing to do, receives less help.  Its hypocritical!



It is my second biggest pet peeve against conservatives.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 3, 2008)

Jodi said:


> Again, you assume I'm voting for Obama....
> 
> I feel the VP position is very important because if anything happens to our president be it death, surgery, incapacitated etc. the VP takes over.  How can you NOT feel it's important?



You have absolutely said you wont vote for a ticket with palin. that leads to a  choice of obama unless im mistaken?

because I'm much more worried about obama. truthfully i feel palin is not experienced enough to lead the country. im hardly afraid of her policies. seems to me that nothing concrete has been shown yet. everything so far posted is BS alarmist crap. nothing of consequence. people really need to look at real stuff before they start crying about the sky falling


----------



## Jodi (Sep 3, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> You have absolutely said you wont vote for a ticket with palin. that leads to a  choice of obama unless im mistaken?
> 
> because I'm much more worried about obama. truthfully i feel palin is not experienced enough to lead the country. im hardly afraid of her policies. seems to me that nothing concrete has been shown yet. everything so far posted is BS alarmist crap. nothing of consequence. people really need to look at real stuff before they start crying about the sky falling


Really?  I could have sworn there were more than 2 parties on the ballot.  Hmmm and maybe even a write in........


----------



## ZECH (Sep 3, 2008)

Just remember, Nader caused Gore to loose the 2000 election.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 3, 2008)

Jodi said:


> Really?  I could have sworn there were more than 2 parties on the ballot.  Hmmm and maybe even a write in........





I acquiesce the point.


----------



## Jodi (Sep 3, 2008)

I vote how who I feel is best appropriate not because there are 2 major parties.  It may be R, D, I, write in what have you.....  I refuse to vote one way only.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 3, 2008)

dg806 said:


> Just remember, Nader caused Gore to loose the 2000 election.



and ross perot helped clinton


----------



## DOMS (Sep 3, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> It is kind of interesting that this VP pick is getting so much attention. Im actually really very surprised. that people wouldn't vote for a ticket based on the inexperience of the VP nomination when the opponents presidential nomination has the same flaw. it seems that it has really taken a lot of the heat off McCain being "just like bush" which in actuality is more ridiculous than any other smear levied on either side of this election.




They do it because McCain is a known.  Obama, however, is not "a known."  As the elections march forward, more and more of the skeletons in his closet will come out and the shit that he shovels will be more apparent.  So they have to go after Palin because she's also an unknown.


----------



## danzik17 (Sep 3, 2008)

Jodi said:


> I vote how who I feel is best appropriate not because there are 2 major parties.  It may be R, D, I, write in what have you.....  I refuse to vote one way only.



Thank god, I'm not alone in this whole "logical voting" thing.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 3, 2008)

DOMS said:


> They do it because McCain is a known.  Obama, however, is not "a known."  As the elections march forward, more and more of the skeletons in his closet will come out and the shit that he shovels will be more apparent.  So they have to go after Palin because she's also an unknown.



problem is obama's voting record is nearly non-existent. how many times did the guy vote 'present'? when has he ever had to stand for something?


----------



## ZECH (Sep 3, 2008)

Palin absolutely exceeded expectations tonight in her speech. She will and has grabbed some of the voters that are on the fence. I expect the repubs will get a good boost from the convention. I think everone that has been reporting on the convention think she did a great job.


----------



## shiznit2169 (Sep 3, 2008)

dg806 said:


> Palin absolutely exceeded expectations tonight in her speech. She will and has grabbed some of the voters that are on the fence. I expect the repubs will get a good boost from the convention. I think everone that has been reporting on the convention think she did a great job.



I thought her speech was absolute shit. She lost the crowd halfway through by talking about her family and her small town life. Save that shit for another time. She needed to come out and be strong but she was weak and basically repeated most major points that Rudy Giuliani already said. 

The only thing i think she and Rudy did well on was embarrassing Obama on how he doesn't keep his promises and lacks any credibility for having only been running for 140 days. I'd take someone with experience over a "Celebrity Senator" any day.


----------



## ZECH (Sep 3, 2008)

Gergen: Palin delivers
Posted: 11:48 PM ET

From CNN Senior Political Analyst David Gergen


Palin addressed the RNC Wednesday.
Republicans got everything they could possibly want from Sarah Palin tonight: she was a large, confident personality — one Democratic friend ruefully wrote that she reminded him of Ann Richards — and she delivered an extremely well crafted speech. Before the speech, Republican strategists told Dana Bash of CNN that they hoped that she would show viewers "a common touch with executive presence", and she definitely succeeded at that.

Three things in particular stood out:
1. She joked that the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull is …lipstick. Clearly, in the next few weeks, she will play the role of a pit bull with lipstick. My sense is that she will very likely connect with blue collar America but may be much less successful in suburban America.

2. Her personal story is also one that will relate well to people. She has a quality of seeming like the girl next door.

3. She showed a lot of confidence in addressing energy toward the end of the speech, which gave her more substantive depth.

Now let us be clear: there will be tons of Democrats and others who will disagree with her and will take sharp exception with her views. Her jabs at Barack Obama and the Democrats were surprisingly personal at times. And she will face tough questioning ahead from the press. After all, there are still some serious questions about what kind of president she might be. We are going to have a rough and tumble race down the home stretch.


----------



## danzik17 (Sep 3, 2008)

dg806 said:


> 2. Her personal story is also one that will relate well to people. *She has a quality of seeming like the girl next door.*



And Bush was the guy you could sit down and have a beer with.  We need a leader, not the skank next door that you want to bang.

No that is not my official opinion of her, but I feel that is a poor point to be grading a candidate on.


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 3, 2008)

dg806 said:


> Palin absolutely exceeded expectations tonight in her speech. She will and has grabbed some of the voters that are on the fence. I expect the repubs will get a good boost from the convention. I think everone that has been reporting on the convention think she did a great job.



Giuliani's speech alone should provide a bounce.  Remarkable when you hear him say it all at once: this election should be a landslide.

Palin did fantastic... I'm still really interested to see her on her feet.. the debates/interviews, etc.  I always blasted Obama for being nothing more than a good speaker when it's written down, so I can't give Palin a pass.  It's no secret I like her & love everything she stands for, but I like knowing it's more than just a well-written speech.  

I'm really interested to see whether there is a significant bounce in the polls.


----------



## bigsahm21 (Sep 3, 2008)

I think Sarah Palin and Rudy "I'm a" G rocked it tonight.  Rudy, I'm not surprised, I've always loved that guy.  And Palin's a bad B! I liked her a lot!  Considering McCain's 72 years old, has multiple bouts with skin cancer and was a POW, I'm a little worried about him (potentially) lasting 8 years in the White House, and charming as she may be I'm not sure that the little country bumpkin from Alaska with her limited experience would be fit for the Presidency in the worst case scenario.  But I really doubt that is a legitimate enough concern to not vote for McCain if I otherwise decide to do so.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Sep 3, 2008)

Convention speeches are a joke, for all candidates and parties.  Always has been this way.

These speeches target the _low-info voter_.  Conventions are for low-info voters.

Abstract, rah-rah, talk.  

And then the spin doctors come and tell us what it meant and how many political points were lost.

I don't even watch the conventions.


----------



## Witmaster (Sep 4, 2008)

I think she hit it out of the park.

She touched on a variety of subjects and issues ranging from her personal life and family, National Security, to Energy Policy.

She addressed her own political and government experience.

She calls Obama out on his own shortcoming of "experience".  All-in-all she made a very compelling speach.  Considering this was the first time the vast majority of Americans (and the whole world for that matter) have heard her speak, I think she may have won some hearts.

Of course, there are those discerning types who will need a lot more time and evidence before they are convinced, but non-the-less, this was a good start.

I don't think anyone has any dillusional ideas that the whole country is going offer wholesale support to the McCain/Palin ticket, but many will.

She's a strong woman with some amazing and admiral qualities.  I'm very impressed.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Sep 4, 2008)

I think she energized the voters who already intended on voting McCain, just as the DNC did for those already voting Obama.  These conventions don't really do anything other than that, that is what the debates are for.


----------



## mcguin (Sep 4, 2008)

shiznit2169 said:


> I thought her speech was absolute shit. She lost the crowd halfway through by talking about her family and her small town life. Save that shit for another time. She needed to come out and be strong but she was weak and basically repeated most major points that Rudy Giuliani already said.
> 
> The only thing i think she and Rudy did well on was embarrassing Obama on how he doesn't keep his promises and lacks any credibility for having only been running for 140 days. I'd take someone with experience over a "Celebrity Senator" any day.



I guess we werent watching the same convention, perhaps you had the telemundo channel on when you were watching her because she by far has now made the best speech to date in this whole campaign


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 4, 2008)

shiznit2169 said:


> I thought her speech was absolute shit. She lost the crowd halfway through by talking about her family and her small town life. Save that shit for another time. She needed to come out and be strong but she was weak and basically repeated most major points that Rudy Giuliani already said.
> 
> The only thing i think she and Rudy did well on was embarrassing Obama on how he doesn't keep his promises and lacks any credibility for having only been running for 140 days. I'd take someone with experience over a "Celebrity Senator" any day.



Lost the crowd? What?  The crowd couldn't have been more enthusiastic.  Don't see how you could have thought she looked weak.

"Save that shit for another time..."  She was introducing herself to a country that doesn't know her.. and attempting to put to rest the bullshit coverage the media has given her. Primetime on the national stage was the perfect time to do this.


----------



## DaMayor (Sep 4, 2008)

Palin is just what John McCain needs. She off-sets Obama's (overplayed) charisma with her own natural charm, yet she's down to earth. Her experience is more than adequate for VP, and she appears to be a straight shooter. I think, as far as conventions go, she did pretty damn good to have come out of nowhere.

I do think they played the bashing angle a tad too hard, but overall they got the job done.


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 4, 2008)

DaMayor said:


> I do think they played the bashing angle a tad too hard, but overall they got the job done.



They did hit him hard, but I think it was necessary.  The media is in the bag for Obama & will never tell voters the huge gaps in Obama's rhetoric.  This put it front and center.. and to come from Giuliani was priceless.


----------



## ZECH (Sep 4, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> Giuliani's speech alone should provide a bounce.  Remarkable when you hear him say it all at once: this election should be a landslide.
> 
> Palin did fantastic... I'm still really interested to see her on her feet.. the debates/interviews, etc.  I always blasted Obama for being nothing more than a good speaker when it's written down, so I can't give Palin a pass.  It's no secret I like her & love everything she stands for, but I like knowing it's more than just a well-written speech.
> 
> I'm really interested to see whether there is a significant bounce in the polls.



From what I had heard, I expected her to be a good motivational speaker. She did just that. But I'm also curious to see how she reacts and does in the debates. Will she still be level headed and respond in a rational manner? If so, the dems are in for a tough contest.


----------



## ZECH (Sep 4, 2008)

Giuliani's and Huckabee's speech was awesome. They hit Obama right on his weaknesses.


----------



## DaMayor (Sep 4, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> They did hit him hard, but I think it was necessary.  *The media is in the bag for Obama *& will never tell voters the huge gaps in Obama's rhetoric.  This put it front and center.. *and to come from Giuliani was priceless*.



True...and true, very true. Giuliani did a great job, and appeared to be enjoying it (maybe too much)
I do like the way Palin addressed the issue of the relationship between the Washington 'elite' and the media. Especially when the camera was on certain media figures..who appeared to whince alittle bit, lol.

The bottom line is this.....There is not enough time, nor would most American's be able to understand, every single piece of information about these candidates....Dems or Repub's. The media will always present information that is 'spinnable' or otherwise 'sexy'. To the average Joe,*Facts are boring*. National Enquirer junk is sensational and entertaining. 

This year, I'm going with my gut. There's not much more to go with.


----------



## DOMS (Sep 4, 2008)

dg806 said:


> Giuliani's and Huckabee's speech was awesome. They hit Obama right on his weaknesses.



Which one?


----------



## Witmaster (Sep 4, 2008)

Sarah gave an amazing speach but one memorible quote, when describing her husbands accomplishments:



> Throw in his Yup'ik Eskimo ancestry, and it all makes for quite a *package*


 
So, are eskimos well hung or what?


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 4, 2008)

Witmaster said:


> So, are eskimos well hung or what?



No, it's a Republican trait.


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 4, 2008)

Pretty impressive.. her teleprompter was broken & she was able to remain composed & deliver the great speech she did.  

Pretty much the opposite of what happened when Obama's went out...






YouTube Video


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 4, 2008)

YouTube Video


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 4, 2008)

US Weekly responding to questions about the Sarah Palin smear. Laughable...






YouTube Video


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 4, 2008)

She did really good.
I do like her a lot, she added life to the party.


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 4, 2008)

Ouch, guess he didn't expect to get his ass reamed.


Megyn Kelly destroys Us Weekly for vicious Palin cover​





YouTube Video


----------



## pyromaniac327 (Sep 4, 2008)

"Fair and balanced news reporting where you tell the whole story" 

Says the *FOX news *reporter


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 4, 2008)

Newest Palin Smear: She Cut Special Needs Budget

I just watched CNN's Soledad O'Brien sandbag former White House Communications Director Nicole Wallace by asking her how Sarah Palin can claim to be a defender of special needs children when she cut the budget for that Alaska office by 62 percent. Wallace wasn't familiar with the charge -- which isn't surprising, since it's only being made on DailyKos and another liberal site. (Tip for Ms. O'Brien: DailyKos is not a reliable news site.)
This charge is based on looking at the budget for Alaska's Special Education Service Agency for 2007-2009. In fact, the December 2006 budget document that they cite would have been prepared by the outgoing administration -- that of Republican Frank Murkowski, whom Palin defeated.
What's gone unmentioned is that the Palin signed into law a dramatic reform of the state's education financing system that equalizes aid to rural and urban districts, while significantly increasing funding for special needs students. From the publication Education Week:
Gov. Sarah Palin and state lawmakers have gone ahead with an overhaul of Alaskaâ??????s school funding system that supporters predict will provide much-needed financial help to rural schools and those serving students with disabilities.
The plan, enacted in the recently concluded session of the legislature, is based on recommendations issued by a legislative task force last year. It will phase in a greater flow of money to districts outside of Anchorage, Alaskaâ??????s largest city, over the next five years.
Advocates for rural and remote schools have lobbied for years for more funding, in particular noting the higher fuel, transportation, and other costs associated with providing education in communities scattered across the vast state.
A second part of the measure raises spending for students with special needs to $73,840 in fiscal 2011, from the current $26,900 per student in fiscal 2008, according to the Alaska Department of Education and Early Development (emphasis added).
So the Netroots and CNN allege that Palin cut special needs funding by 62 percent, by crediting her with the budget proposed by a political opponent. And the truth is that rather than a 62 percent cut, she's actually increasing special needs funding by 175 percent.
It's no wonder a majority of Americans think the media is trying to hurt Palin.
Posted by Brian Faughnan on September 4, 2008 11:21 AM | Permalink


----------



## ZECH (Sep 4, 2008)

min0 lee said:


> It's no wonder a majority of Americans think the media is trying to hurt Palin.



They are.............no doubt that the media is liberal. Always has been.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Sep 4, 2008)

Read this article about Palin's speechwriter, Matthew Scully.

I am surprised by the reaction to Palin's speech, even by sophisticated people.  Almost all politicians have a team of speechwriters that outline, brainstorm, draft, write, and re-write speeches.  Palin's speech was written before she was even chosen, with her bio pieces added after she was selected.

Here is an article on the speechwriter, Matthew Scully

The Man Behind Palin's Speech - TIME



> he Man Behind Palin's Speech
> Thursday, Sep. 04, 2008 By MASSIMO CALABRESI / WASHINGTON
> 
> As Democrats and Barack Obama's campaign scrambled to attack Sarah Palin's well-received acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention in St. Paul, Minn., on Wednesday night, they latched on early and hard to the fact that *it was penned by former Bush speechwriter Matthew Scully.* But the story is more complicated than just the recycling of a Bush staffer into John McCain's fold, and it tells you more about how McCain's camp intends to use Palin than it does about the continuing influence of the current White House.
> ...


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 4, 2008)

Big Smoothy said:


> Read this article about Palin's speechwriter, Matthew Scully.
> 
> I am surprised by the reaction to Palin's speech, even by sophisticated people.  Almost all politicians have a team of speechwriters that outline, brainstorm, draft, write, and re-write speeches.  Palin's speech was written before she was even chosen, with her bio pieces added after she was selected.
> 
> ...



No politicians write their own speeches.. that's not a secret.  The buzz is about her delivery.. it was flawless.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Sep 4, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> No politicians write their own speeches.. that's not a secret.  The buzz is about her delivery.. it was flawless.



I know.  And that is the problem.


----------



## min0 lee (Sep 4, 2008)

I don't think any does that anymore, much like writing letters...no one really does it anymore.

Whose the last President to write his own speeches?

Lincoln was a great writer by the way.


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 4, 2008)

Big Smoothy said:


> I know.  And that is the problem.



You're telling me!! Obama's on the brink of the presidency solely on his ability to deliver a speech!


----------



## DOMS (Sep 4, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> You're telling me!! Obama's on the brink of the presidency solely on his ability to deliver a speech!



He speaks well.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Sep 4, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> You're telling me!! Obama's on the brink of the presidency solely on his ability to deliver a speech!



I agree with you busylivin.

His charisma and ability to speak is one of the big reasons why he's gotten so far.

I agree with you.

Unfortunately, for a large percentage of the voting populace, actual _pure policy_ doesn't matter.

Looks, oratory skills, "likeability" and crafting and branding and image, are what matters.

This is why candidates to on the Jay Leno, Letterman, and Oprah TV shows.  This is why they interview for a _People_ magazine article and cover shot.

Low-info voters.


----------



## ZECH (Sep 4, 2008)

Big Smoothy said:


> I agree with you busylivin.
> 
> His charisma and ability to speak is one of the big reasons why he's gotten so far.
> 
> ...


For once I agree with you.


----------



## Witmaster (Sep 5, 2008)

dg806 said:


> For once I agree with you.


Surely this is a sign of some impending apocolyptic event.


----------



## TBAR (Sep 5, 2008)

I was very impressed with her, and the way in which she speaks.  She seems to take NO crap from anyone, and personally I think we need someone like that around.


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 5, 2008)

Witmaster said:


> Surely this is a sign of some impending apocolyptic event.



real 4 horsemen kind of stuff.


----------



## Big Smoothy (Sep 5, 2008)

Witmaster said:


> Surely this is a sign of some impending apocolyptic event.


Actually dg806 and I agree more often than not.  I am just not arsed to post as so.

Regardless of who wins the election.  Nothing in the US will change.  There will be some new faces.  Some new symbolic changes.

But everything will chug along as it did before.

And that does mean, the middle class will continue to get squeezed, the government will spend more that it takes in, and the costs for most good and services will outstrip wages.


----------



## ZECH (Sep 5, 2008)

Big Smoothy said:


> Regardless of who wins the election.  Nothing in the US will change.  There will be some new faces.  Some new symbolic changes.
> 
> But everything will chug along as it did before.
> 
> And that does mean, the middle class will continue to get squeezed, the government will spend more that it takes in, and the costs for most good and services will outstrip wages.



Oh shit, again I agree. The two parties are pretty much the same now. Big government and high taxes. Damn, I better take cover for that storm that is coming. Surely this is a bad sign


----------



## Witmaster (Sep 5, 2008)




----------



## busyLivin (Sep 5, 2008)

Jodi said:


> The AIP have no reason to lie.  Plus SHE never said she wasn't, McCain's campaign said she wasn't.  Do you really think they are going to admit she was in the AIP?



*1) Palin â?????Joined a Secessionist Political Partyâ???*

The Charge: Unsubstantiated internet reports insisted Palin was once a member of the Alaska Independence Party, which critics call a secessionist political movement but supporters say is dedicated to seeking greater state control over federal lands across Alaska.

The Facts: Palin has been a registered Republican since 1982. There is no record of her ever being a member of the AIP, or any party but the GOP. Palinâ??????s huband has been a member of the AIP in the past, but since 2002 has been a registered independent.

(See: Party Official Says Palin Was Not a Member Alaska Party Official Says Palin Was Not a Member - The Caucus Blog - NYTimes.com)
*
2) Palin Supported a â?????Nazi Sympathizerâ???*

The Charge: â?????Palin was a supporter of Pat Buchanan, a right-winger or, as many Jews call him: a Nazi sympathizer,â??? Obama Florida spokesman Mark Bubriski was quoted as saying in a Miami Herald article.

The Facts: While mayor of Wasilla, Palin wore a Buchanan button during the sometimes presidential candidateâ??????s 1999 visit. But Palin actually supported Steve Forbes in 2000, and served as a co-chair on his Alaska campaign.

In the weeks after the 1999 report of her wearing the Buchanan button, Palin said: â?????When presidential candidates visit our community, I am always happy to meet them. Iâ??????ll even put on their button when handed one as a polite gesture of respect. â???¦ The article may have left your readers with the perception that I am endorsing this candidate, as opposed to welcoming his visit to Wasilla.â???

(See: Obama campaign advisor quote is from an e-mail sent to the Miami Herald Obama camp connects the dots for Jews: McCain...Palin...Buchanan..."Nazis" | Naked Politics)

*3) Palin â?????Wants Creationism Taught in Schoolâ???*

The Charge: Palin opposes the teaching of evolution, and would mandate the teaching of creationism in the stateâ??????s public schools.

The Facts: Palin said during her 2006 gubernatorial campaign that she would not push the state Board of Education to add creation-based alternatives to the stateâ??????s required curriculum, or look for creationism advocates when she appointed board members. She has kept this pledge, according to the Associated Press.

Palin has spoken in favor of classroom discussions of creationism, in some cases. â?????I donâ??????t think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesnâ??????t have to be part of the curriculum,â??? Palin told the Anchorage Daily News in a 2006 interview.

(See: â?????Creation scienceâ?????? enters the race; Palin is only candidate to suggest it should be discussed in schools. By Tom Kizzia, Anchorage Daily News, 27 October 2006)

*4) Palin â?????Was Nearly Recalledâ??? While Mayor*

The Charge: Palin was so controversial as mayor of Wasilla that she was almost recalled by a popular voter movement.

The Facts: The Wasilla City Council considered but never took up a recall motion after she fired a longtime police chief, who subsequently brought a lawsuit. A citizenâ??????s group dropped their recall bid, and a judge ruled Palin had the authority to fire the chief.

(See: Foes Back Off Push to Recall Mayor Foes back off their push to recall mayor (2/11/1997): Gov. Sarah Palin | adn.com)

*5) Palin â?????Opposes Sex Educationâ???*

The Charge: Palin opponents say Palin supported the end of all sex education in public schools. In light of her daughterâ??????s presumably unplanned teen pregnancy, this has been a particularly well discussed internet topic.

The Facts: â?????The explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support,â??? Palin wrote in a 2006 questionnaire distributed among gubernatorial candidates. Palin favors abstinence-based sex education programs.

(See: McCain fought money on teen pregnancy programs, By Sharon Theimer, Associated Press, Sept. 2, 2008)

*6) â?????This Picture Proves Palin is â???¦â???*

The Charge: A slew of fake, Photoshopped or misdated photographs on the internet purport to show Palin in any number of embarrassing or compromising poses. One photo claimed to show Palin standing poolside, wearing an American flag-themed bikini, toting a rifle with telescopic sight.

The Facts: The various photos are being discredited and shown to be fake on a number of websites. The original of the so-called bikini shot, probably the best-known of the pictures, was shown to have been taken of another woman, with Palinâ??????s head Photoshopped above the body.

(See: Call to Arms, snopes.com: Sarah Palin Photos)

*7) Palin is the grandmother, and not the mother, of Trig Palin*

The Charge: The most salacious rumor of all, this theory holds that Palin did not give birth to her son Trig in April, and was actually covering up for her daughter, Bristol.

The Facts: There are a number of photographs showing an apparently pregnant Sarah Palin, as well as a number of published eyewitness accounts of her pregnancy. These include First Lady Laura Bush, who says she spoke with a pregnant Palin at a governorâ??????s conference in February. An assignment manager for KTVA news in Anchorage, Cherie Shirey, has also been quoted saying: â?????We worked with Governor Palin many times in 2008. Our reporters worked her on location and in the studio and I worked with her myself. She was definitely pregnant. You could see it in her belly and her face. The whole idea that Sarah Palin wasnâ??????t pregnant with Trig is completely, absolutely absurd.â???


----------



## bio-chem (Sep 5, 2008)

busyLivin said:


> *1) Palin â?????Joined a Secessionist Political Partyâ???*
> 
> The Charge: Unsubstantiated internet reports insisted Palin was once a member of the Alaska Independence Party, which critics call a secessionist political movement but supporters say is dedicated to seeking greater state control over federal lands across Alaska.
> 
> ...



stop posting such dribble. facts are not meant to be posted here


----------



## busyLivin (Sep 5, 2008)

bio-chem said:


> stop posting such dribble. facts are not meant to be posted here



My bad...Won't happen again!


----------



## Big Smoothy (Sep 5, 2008)

dg806 said:


> Oh shit, again I agree. The two parties are pretty much the same now. Big government and high taxes. Damn, I better take cover for that storm that is coming. Surely this is a bad sign



I think it's a good thing we agree, because I do think these statistics speak for themselves.  It's getting tougher, economically for everyone, IMO.

The unemployment (u3) rate is now 6.1%, but in reality it's higher.  

As for the storms, Hanna is coming soon, and Ike is supposed to hit Florida by the middle of next week.  Ike could be bad.


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## glennmo (Sep 7, 2008)

Big Smoothy said:


> I think it's a good thing we agree, because I do think these statistics speak for themselves.  It's getting tougher, economically for everyone, IMO.
> 
> The unemployment (u3) rate is now 6.1%, but in reality it's higher.
> 
> As for the storms, Hanna is coming soon, and Ike is supposed to hit Florida by the middle of next week.  Ike could be bad.



And we live in a time where generations of families are raised on " the system "with no intention of working.Unemployment is multifactorial .


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## TexanTA1996 (Sep 7, 2008)

I have overly religious people, and Palin is just that.


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## min0 lee (Sep 7, 2008)

TexanTA1996 said:


> I* have overly religious people*, and Palin is just that.



In your basement? You monster!


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## Big Smoothy (Sep 7, 2008)

glennmo said:


> And we live in a time where generations of families are raised on " the system "with no intention of working.Unemployment is multifactorial .



Remember, the welfare reforms acts passed in the 1990s.  

I think the AFDC limit is 5 years maximum for life.  Yes, there are some disability scams and such, but I think it's not a prevalent as it was before the welfare reform acts of the 1990s. I haven't seen the data.


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