# New to needles.. Pls talk to me.



## Testimoney (May 3, 2019)

A keen all-natural bodybuilder through much of my 30s, I sustained some injuries (broken bones, tears, surgeries etc) andmy usual healthy lifestyle slowly slipped away. At 45yrs old, I finally grew sufficient hatred for my newly-acquired beer gut and I finally got my act back together again. 

Now, after a long winter of running & counting calories, I'm happily down 50lb, putting me in the mid 160s (which, for a 6'4" guy, aint too shabby) but I'm sad to realize just how much meat I've lost over the last 8-10 years. I used to be 200lb with 6-8% bf and HUGE thighs. Not so much nowadays.. Not so much at all. ( 

Anyway... New bodybuilding friends have opened up new opportunities. And, whereas I've never dabbled in anything other than a f*&^-ton of food, heavy weights & long nights of sleep in the past, I'm seriously tempted to try a little "Extra." By that, I mean some Test, an AI and a GhB-inducing SARM. This is where you guys come in... Hopefully.

Having had an interest in this in the past, I have done some research. I say "some" because it always seemed to me that there was an incomprehensible amount of knowledge required to dabble safely in this stuff (plus my ex-wife would've gone f*&^ing NUTS if I'd even suggested it) and, since I didn't want to seriously f&^% myself up, I gave up before I ever got started. I also never had any friends that dabbled in any of this.. But that's different nowadays.

At 45 I can tell my Test levels are not what they once were. My doctor says they're normal, but there's a big range of #s on that scale and I sure aint near the top! A friend  proposing 400-500mg Test split into 2x/doses weekly with an androgen inhibitor (say, Aromasin or Nolvadex), plus a GhB-inducing selective androgen receptor modulator (MK-677 SARM).

I'm being told I don't need to cycle the Test and can, instead, use HCG for 8-10 weeks every several months to kick my nuts back into gear again (while still running test). I'm also being told it's OK to stay on the SARM fairly long term, again with no cycling involved.

Can you give me your thoughts please. Smart-ass comments & all-out ridicule are welcome, but if you could throw something constructive/useful in the mix, that'd be f*&^ing awesome. 

Thanks!


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## Testimoney (May 12, 2019)

[FONT=&quot]9 days since I posted this and not a peep out of anyone. Hmm... That's bit disappointing. But whatever.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]In hopes that this thread will be useful to someone other than me at some point, I'm going to carry on regardless. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I'm continuing to research, listen & learn, but it's also giving rise to new questions. For example:[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Donating Blood[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I'm hearing that Test/AI/SARM combo can thicken your blood, so it's recommended that you donate blood a few times a year to help offset it. Now that's a problem for me! I was in was in Europe during the Mad Cow Disease thing, so I'm blacklisted by the Red Cross for life. For real. Worse yet, I had blood clots once. It was after a botched Morton's Nueroma foot surgery about 10 years ago, when I was in the best shape of my life (200lb & 6-7% bf) and I got two in one of my calves. If they'd broken lose it could've meant heart-attack or stroke. Ever since then, I always get put on blood thinners before/after surgeries to prevent a recurrence. So now what? Does that mean I can't (or shouldn't) do it? What if I only do it for 4 months? What if I eat grapefruits morning & night (I know they thin your blood. I get told not while on blood thinners like Warfarin). So say I DBol for 3 weeks while the Test kicks in, then Test/AI/SARM a little over 3 months followed by some kind of AI/Nolva/HCG PCT afterwards? If I quit before it's even recommended that I donate blood, wouldn't it just go back to normal by itself? How quickly does it even get thick? Any advice?[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Muscle Retention[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In Jonathon M Sullivan?s ?Barbell Prescription (for Over 40s)? he talks about cells simply dying off (committing suicide, even) as hormonal levels decline with age. Obviously, I plan to carry on lifting after this cycle. I?d be doing it with hopes of restoring a little more of my former, all-natural, bulked-up physique (prior to the torn shoulder, broken leg, divorce, unemployment, etc, that?s plagued the past 5-7 years). I?d want the muscle to stay though, afterwards, obviously. Not just take all the risk, spend al the money, do all the work, and then just shrink back down afterwards. It?s supposed to stick around, right? Maybe lose a little, or just bloat, and keep the meat. Right?[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Calorie intake [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Without wanting to sound too much like one of those douche-baggy ?How-many-calories-should-I-eat? kind-of guys? How many calories should I eat!? I mean roughly? Since December I?ve been keeping calories really low (like 1,100-1,600/day) while running a 5k every other day and lifting, of course, and I?ve lost 40lb (dropping from 210lb -> 170lb & roughly 10% bf). If I do the math, 1lb fat = 3,000 calories, so 40lb = 120,000 calories =  roughly 1,000 calories short every day. If I ease up on the running (to maybe 1mile, 3x/wk, as a workout warmup), does that mean that 2,500-3,000 calories is going too work out just fine fo this cycle, or is my body going to be so crazy busy building new muscle that I?m supposed to be shoving in 5-7,000 calories a day!? I don?t want to  pack on a bunch of fat in the process, but I don?t want to prevent myself from growing by not eating enough either. I?m mid 40s with an office job but I?m pretty active outside of work (active/outdoorsy hobbies, sports, projects, etc). What do you think? [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Emotional/Professional
I love her, but I don?t have to look any further than my beautiful girlfriend to see that hormones play an important part in emotional stability. There are certain times in the month when she?s, let?s just say, ?not quite herself.? As I said above, I have an office job, and it?s quite a stressful one. It?s fast paced and overwhelming. It?s critical that I?m able to maintain my professionalism composure amidst stressful situations. I?m not so worried about ?Roid Rage? as I am about simply getting frustrated, exasperated or venting. I read that Test levels can go from 600 to 2,500 in your system. Surely that has to have an impact on something!? Do you find yourself more confident, composed & collected? Or wanting to rip the heads off puppies? [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Liver Protection
As of right now, I?ll admit, I haven?t done a ton of research on adequate liver protection for a 3-4mo 1st cycle like this. DBol is an oral steroid and I that?s hard on your liver. I know Milk Thistle is supposed to bee good for it. I currently I take Orange Triad multi-vitamins, fish oil, 5Htp & a probiotic. Any suggestions on what I should add while on/off cycle?[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Workouts
This topic, I?m sure, could fill the pages of an entire forum by itself (In fact? it does) but I wanted to touch on it anyway. I?ve always been a sucker for a 3-way split (e.g. push-pull-legs, or vertical-horizontal-legs) and I know those programs can produce results, but I?ve been reading recently that Full Body Workouts, 3x a week, are actually supposed to be the best way to stimulating muscle growth. Alternating intensity for an assortment of strenuously-performed compound movements, maintains the central nervous system while hitting each muscle group multiple times a week. A muscle doesn?t have to have be fully healed before being trained again, as long as you switch up the rep-range thoughout the weak (heavy, light, medium). I just bought Rippetoe?s ?Starting Strength? and ?Practical Programming,? but I?d like to hear your thoughts, opinions & experiences too. Care to share?[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Waist line
This is hopefully a stupid question but, if I?m going to go through a period of rapid muscle growth, wouldn?t that include my lower back, abs & obliques too? How much growth is typical in that mid region? Right now I?m thinner that I?ve been in probably 20 years. I?m back in pants I haven?t worn in ages, and they?re baggy! I have plenty of room to grow and still fit comfortably in my existing pants, but I was curious how much growth can occur on the waist line. There must surely one some. Everything grows, right. Proportionally, presumably. But all over, to some degree. How much can occur in a 4mo 1st cycle (gaining, from what I?ve heard, maybe 20lb or more)?[/FONT]


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## REHH (May 13, 2019)

First cycles are usually just testosterone at 500mg/week. If you eat a clean diet and weight train consistently you could gain 20lbs and not put much on the waist.


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## Arnold (May 13, 2019)

REHH said:


> First cycles are usually just testosterone at 500mg/week. If you eat a clean diet and weight train consistently you could gain 20lbs and not put much on the waist.



yup and as a newbie 500mg of Test along with a good diet will yield some very nice results.


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## Gibbs1 (May 13, 2019)

Rehh nailed it. 
For the blood issue look into Therapeutic phlebotomy if you cannot donate blood. 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## Testimoney (May 13, 2019)

Thanks for the replies, guys. Supplies are arriving tomorrow: 3wks DBol & 15wks Test with Aromasin. Planning Nolva for PCT, 15wks fr now. 

Can someone please respond to my liver care comment, please? One guy advised me to go with "Himalaya" brand "LiverCare" and plain ol' Meijer brand Saw Palmetto. Doe anyone else have any other suggestions?

Also, what are your thoughts on Supzilla SARMS? Being advised togo with "Alphachem G1" (GhB production stimulator); $99/mo. Should I bother? Would it make much difference?

And what about my mood? If someone would chime in on the other points I raised (above) I'd be super grateful. Please & thanks.

Really looking forward to this. 20lb would put me half way back to the way I used to be, back in my all-natural body-building days, prior to injuries. That'd be nice. My g/f (of 4yrs now) is a sucker for muscles, and she's never even seen me all swole.  She's gonna love it. We both will. 

Thanks again.


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## TripleOvertime (May 14, 2019)

Testimoney, sounds like you went at it natural for a while and it sounds like youve done some homework also, which is great.

Keep us posted on what you decide on and how it goes.  Some good guys on this forum to help you out along the way if needed.


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## REHH (May 14, 2019)

With three weeks of dbol I don't think you need any liver protection really. If you want just get some milk thistle. Liver protection is needed by guys that run gear year-round and take a lot more orals than you are, 3 weeks of dbol shouldn't raise your liver enzymes.


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## Multislacking (May 15, 2019)

If you do go further down the road with orals in the future, tudca works great for liver protection.


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## heckler7 (May 23, 2019)

what was your test numbers at? at your age if you start cycling be prepared to stay on the rest of your life because your test may tank and never come back. just saying something to think about before starting


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## Testimoney (May 23, 2019)

heckler7 said:


> what was your test numbers at? at your age if you start cycling be prepared to stay on the rest of your life because your test may tank and never come back. just saying something to think about before starting



Seiously!? Is this for real!? I mean really!? Seriously!?

I was under the impression that with a by-the-book PCT program, everything is supposed to bounce back to normal in no time.


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## Multislacking (May 24, 2019)

Yes.  Once you hit your 40's things are not going to bounce back like it would if you're younger.  You already said you can tell your test numbers aren't what they used to be when you were younger.  TRT isn't a big deal and to me it is actually easier than doing pct, hcg, etc as you were mentioning.  Plus, if you're already at the bottom of the range with your natural test levels, trt can bring that up to the top of the range and you will feel better.


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