# Need non-MILK protein powder.



## flood (Dec 28, 2013)

I want to avoid soy because I am on TRT and don't want my T level screwed.

*Sore joints* has me on the Abascal Way eating plan To Quiet Inflammation (TQI).
I'm in the 3 week cleansing phase and can't do milk. 

Is there a protein powder out there that's not whey or soy?

I'm figuring on lots of chicken breast but worry I won't be getting 1g protein per pound of body weight with this eating program. It's a 1/3 protein : 2/3 veggies & fruit RATIO.

The Abascal Way The TQI Diet Plan


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## country1911 (Dec 28, 2013)

MuscleMeds Carnivor is a beef based protein.  I have had good results with it.


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## flood (Dec 28, 2013)

country1911 said:


> MuscleMeds Carnivor is a beef based protein.  I have had good results with it.


Great - thanks! Looks like good stuff from its contents and description.  Kai Green uses this stuff.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Dec 29, 2013)

flood said:


> I want to avoid soy because I am on TRT and don't want my T level screwed.
> 
> *Sore joints* has me on the Abascal Way eating plan To Quiet Inflammation (TQI).
> I'm in the 3 week cleansing phase and can't do milk.





*Milk?*

I have a hard time believing that milk causes inflammation. 



flood said:


> Is there a protein powder out there that's not whey or soy?



Sure

1) Egg

2) Beef

3) Rice

4) Hemp

5) Pea

...probably more. All you have to do is google them.

With the price of milk based proteins, vegan protein are more in demand because they are less expensive.  




flood said:


> I'm figuring on lots of chicken breast but worry I won't be getting 1g protein per pound of body weight with this eating program. It's a 1/3 protein : 2/3 veggies & fruit RATIO.



*Fats???*

Based on this, there is no fat in your diet.  



flood said:


> The Abascal Way The TQI Diet Plan



Not much information on this site.  

For that matter, I couldn't find much informative information this diet in general.

Kenny Croxdale


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## flood (Dec 29, 2013)

Thanks Kenny. Yeah EV olive oil is the main fat, plus whatever you get in chicken - dark meat is fine. Ground Turkey, not lean.

I Think it's worth checking out, the reviews are reasonable enough;
Product Reviews: The Abascal Way 2 Volume Set: Amazon.com

It's along the lines of other anti-inflammatory eating programs, like Dr Pericone's, but Abascal mentions the stuff we do...
Like eat a yam post work out, and don't eat 2-3 hours before bed to not screw your HGH surge at night, testosterone and estrogen balancing.

I'll give it a shot and maybe star a thread if it eases the joint pain. I just want to lift heavy again, so I'll try it.

And holy crap -  PEA protein???     I never would have searched for that one!


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## Kenny Croxdale (Dec 30, 2013)

flood said:


> Thanks Kenny. Yeah EV olive oil is the main fat, plus whatever you get in chicken - dark meat is fine. Ground Turkey, not lean.
> 
> I Think it's worth checking out, the reviews are reasonable enough;
> Product Reviews: The Abascal Way 2 Volume Set: Amazon.com



I'll see what I can find on it and take a look at it. 



flood said:


> It's along the lines of other anti-inflammatory eating programs, like Dr Pericone's, but Abascal mentions the stuff we do...



However, inflammation diets to some extent have become the "Flavor of the month". 

Unless you have chronic inflammation problems, some diet deviations are fine. 



flood said:


> Like eat a yam post work out, and don't eat 2-3 hours before bed to not screw your HGH surge at night, testosterone and estrogen balancing.



*HGH Surge*

It more like a trickle rather than a surge.  

And it is questionable if consuming a high glycemic index meal before bedtime completely shuts off growth hormone release all through the night. 

*Insulin*

As you know a high glycemic index meal shut down growth hormone production.  

That is one of the reasons some individuals believe in abstaining from eating anything post workout. 

However, research show that growth hormone rebounds after a high glycemic index meal.

*Dietary supplements affect the anabolic hormones after weight-training exercise.*
Dietary supplements affect the anaboli... [J Appl Physiol (1985). 1994] - PubMed - NCBI

This post rebound growth hormone effect most likely occurs during sleep, as well.  

*Testosterone*

A high glycemic index meal does not effect testosterone production. 

*Anabolic Insulin*

Insulin is an anabolic hormone.  Part of it job is to shuttle nutrients to muscle, make muscle. 

Thus, a Pre, Peri and Post High Glycemic Index Beverage/Meal help build muscle mass.

*The Dark Side*

Insulin is also a "fat maker".  

Outside of the "Training Window", chronic elevation of insulin makes you fat, causes inflammation, etc

*Timing*

The key is to know when to spike insulin and when NOT to. 



flood said:


> And holy crap -  PEA protein???     I never would have searched for that one!



*Pea Protein*

It has a good complete amino base. 

It is high in Leucine (amino acid).  Leucine trips an anabolic trigger (mTOR) for muscle growth.

Part of the anabolic effect of Leucine is it trigger the release of insulin. 

Certain proteins (amino acids) trigger insulin release.

Kenny Croxdale


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## flood (Jan 2, 2014)

Thanks for the great info. That helps a lot.


> And it is questionable if consuming a high  glycemic index meal before bedtime completely shuts off growth hormone  release all through the night.


I should probably be clearer, in fairness to the author, but I would like to figure out if it's valid or just another diet fad.

Abascal makes the case that eating in general before bed is not good;




Eating before bed resets the leptin level cycle so we're hungry at night and not in the AM when we need to be hungry for food, especially more protein. 
Eating before bed secretes insulin which shuts down growth hormone. She doesn't specify high GI meals. Juts the flat statement about night eating. 
Leptin is tied to Melatonin and sleep cycle which helps us rest and rejuvenate - and it's best to have deep sleep at night and wake rested and hungry, she states. 
 
Dr Pericone's anti inflammatory diet was pretty much a fad aimed at anti-aging and anti-wrinkles. He sold pharmaceuticals from it. But the anti-inflammatory info was an awareness builder for me.
He talked about cell plasma membrane, fats and proteins, insulin... he recommended eating most of our daily protein in the AM and preferred wild salmon (which is fairly toxic these days).

I'm a complete amateur but like learning this stuff. Been eating whole food for decades. Worried I have arthritis and wont be able to lift.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jan 3, 2014)

flood said:


> Thanks for the great info. That helps a lot.
> 
> I should probably be clearer, in fairness to the author, but I would like to figure out if it's valid or just another diet fad.



*Try It*

I am a proponent of the only way to really find out if something works or not is to try it. 

That is the foundation of learning.  

Based on what I have learn over time, here my perspective on the following. 



flood said:


> Abascal makes the case that eating in general before bed is not good;



*Generalization Statements*

Looping everything into on catagory, never works.  



flood said:


> Eating before bed resets the leptin level cycle so we're hungry at night and not in the AM when we need to be hungry for food, especially more protein.






*Leptin*

I don't see how eating before bed will resets leptin levels.  

*Fasting State*

Sleeping for around 8 hours means you are going to be in a fasting state.  

Go without eating for any 8 hour period and see if you aren't hungrier.  

In other words, no matter what you eat before bed, more than likely you are going to be hungry in the morning. 

*Catabolic State*

Fasted states, as during sleep, place the body in a catabolic state, some muscle mass is lost. 

*Pre Bed Time Meal*

Research has shown that a "Time Released" pre bed time meal can prevent or slow down catabolism. 

*Casein*

Casein is a protein that is "Time Released".  

Research show that it takes around 5 hours for it to digest. 

Thus, it trickles into your system in a "Time Release" manner. 

Milk and cheese are 80% casein and 20% whey. 

*Other Proteins*

Other proteins such as chicken, beef, fish ingested prior to going to bed will work. 

*Fat At Bed Time*

Consuming protein with fats slow down digestion time. 

*Fiber At Bed Time*

Fiber also slows down digestion time. 

*Combining It*

Thus, combining a slow digested protein with fat and fiber provide an even greater "Time Released" effect. 

*Scientific Data*

What research data supports this claim regarding leptin?  



flood said:


> [*]Eating before bed secretes insulin which shuts down growth hormone. She doesn't specify high GI meals. Juts the flat statement about night eating.



*Insulin and Growth Hormone*

Let's follow the flow of things.

1) High glycemic index food trigger insulin release.  Any diabetic will attest to that. 

2) Insulin shuts down growth hormone production.  Any growth hormone during sleep is minimal, at best.  

3) Insulin post meal consumption does NOT last all night, only a few hours. 

4) Glucagon (insulin's counter) suppresses insulin release in a couple of hours with a normal individual. 

Dr. John Ivy's sports research demonstrated once insulin is put back in "it cage", growth hormone comes out of it cage.  

*Dietary supplements affect the anabolic hormones after weight-training exercise.*
Dietary supplements affect the anaboli... [J Appl Physiol (1985). 1994] - PubMed - NCBI

While this research is based on a post exercise state, it appears the same conditions could apply for sleep.

*"Flat Statement"*

Again, you cannot make general statements and apply to them to everything.





flood said:


> [*]Leptin is tied to Melatonin and sleep cycle which helps us rest and rejuvenate - and it's best to have deep sleep at night and wake rested and hungry, she states.




*Sleep Rejuvenates*

I question if going to bed hungry rejuvenates anyone.  

For decades bodybuilders and athletes have consumed some type of pre bed time protein mean or casein beverage for anti-catabolism, myself included. 

We all sleep just fine, are healthy and have no more or less wrinkles than anyone else. 



flood said:


> Dr Pericone's anti inflammatory diet was pretty much a fad aimed at anti-aging and anti-wrinkles. He sold pharmaceuticals from it. But the anti-inflammatory info was an awareness builder for me.
> 
> He talked about cell plasma membrane, fats and proteins, insulin... he recommended eating most of our daily protein in the AM and preferred wild salmon (which is fairly toxic these days).



*The God Complex *

Medical doctors study disease.  

Medical doctors are NOT...Nutritionist, Physical Therapist, Pharmacist, Exercise Physiologist...etc. 

However, medical doctors are self crowned experts in ALL of the fields listed above, an more.  

*Knowledge*

A medical doctors knowledge is limited in those fields. 

At most, they have 6 hours of nutrition and 6 hours of pharmacology in college.  

Thus, a medical doctors knowledge is VERY limited. 

*Electrician or Plumber?*

Would you call an electrician to fix your plumbing?  

Doesn't it make more sense to call a plumber? 

The same is true with nutrition.

Who know more about nutrition, a medical doctor or a Registered Dieticians? 

*Morning Protein Consumption*

You definitely want protein in the morning, since you've been in a fasting state during sleep.

That is especially true for individuals who abstain from consuming anything prior to bed time.  

Thus, if your last mean was at 6pm and you have breakfast at 6am, you have fasted for 12 hours.  

*Carbohydrate Receptive*

Studies indicate that you body is actually more receptive to carbohydrates in the morning hours.  

Later in the day, you body is less receptive to carbohydrates. 

*Think of It Like This*

When is the best time to approach you wife or employer about something?  

When they are receptive?  When they are NOT receptive? 

Thus, you body does a better job of processing carbohydrates in the early part of the day.  

*You don't know what you don't know.*

I understand you are new to this.  

Learning involves trying things.  I believe in that.

*Medical Doctors*

What I have problems with is medical doctors who suddenly are experts in other fields like nutrition, physical therapy, pharmacology, exercise science...

*Nutritionist, Physical Therapist, Pharmacologist, Exercise Physiologist...*

They don't proclaim to know more than a medical doctor about disease...

Yet, many medical doctors are self proclaimed experts in field they have limited knowledge in.



flood said:


> I'm a complete amateur but like learning this stuff. Been eating whole food for decades. Worried I have arthritis and wont be able to lift.



*"No one ever got dumber by reading a book." *Cosgrove

Keep reading.  Learning is a never ending process. 

Kenny Croxdale


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