# Total Disapointment



## kyle64 (Mar 2, 2010)

I took pictures of myself nude on December 16th, since then I have lost 18 pounds of blubber and gained some muscle mass on my arms and legs even though I am not trying to gain any mass at all I am just trying to get thin.

Today I took pictures of me in the same spot, same light, same distance from camera in the same 4 poses (front, turned to right, turned to left and from behind) and to my disappointment I don't look much different.

My wife swears she can see changes but I think she is really nice and loves me so she is trying to help me not become discouraged. Needless to say I am feeling crushed but I have no intention or desire to let up on my diet. I am 9 pounds from the goal weight of 198 I had set on October 31st. I keep wondering how much different is my body going to look when I do achieve that goal. 
Maybe my goal should be another 30 pounds loss????
Problem is My arms are close to 18" and my thighs are about 30" with little to no fat on them, my fat is all concentrated in my god damn torso!
I cannot possibly see myself weighing 168 lbs, or is it possible for a guy built like me to hit that 168 lbs without damaging my organs and risking major health issues? what the hell am I missing here?


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## DOMS (Mar 2, 2010)

Have you taken measurements?  Thighs and calves?  For this purpose, pictures don't cut it for documenting changes.  You need to rely on measurements.  Have you done them?  Are they different?


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## ArnoldsProtege (Mar 2, 2010)

I don't know what your body type is, but for some reason my intuition makes me believe you are like me. 

5'10 ish, carrying around fat but also very muscular, strong upper body, legs like tree trunks with little fat, but always had issue with fat around the chest and gut. Meso/endo mix, where you put on muscle easilly, but the gooey yellow stuff just the same. Maybe even a capricorn?

My goal weight before when I was 260 was 220. I got there, and saw that I needed more, so then my goal was 200. I got there, and saw that there was still fat, though I was in the best shape ever. I got down to 190, wich was my new goal, and I STILL was loose, though I think a lot of that was skin. I think a good estimate would be to take your goal weight and subtract 10 lbs from it. so for me, 180 I would really start to lean out.

Id say for you, 175-180 is ideal. You would probably be around 8-10% bf, and if you are like me, quite muscular and toned. Now just to get rid of that lousy blubber and reveal the Adonis underneath...


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## DOMS (Mar 2, 2010)

ArnoldsProtege said:


> 5'10 ish, carrying around fat but also very muscular, strong upper body, legs like tree trunks with little fat, but always had issue with fat around the chest and gut. Meso/endo mix, where you put on muscle easilly, but the gooey yellow stuff just the same. Maybe even a capricorn?



If that is him, with the exception that I'm a Libra, you've described me as well.  But I've been holding at 225 for the last six months with the fat slowly coming off, but the weight remaining the same.


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## kyle64 (Mar 2, 2010)

I just had my wife help me measure to compare to my 10-29-09 measurements. I am a Leo by the way and 5'9" tall
Here are the changes:

Chest = Gained 1"
Waist = Lost 4" the tape says my waist is 42" but I wear size 36 Jeans and they fit comfy so go figure
Hips = Lost 2.5"
Neck = Lost 2.5"
Wrist = Lost 3/4"
Biceps flexed = Lost 1" 
Thighs Flexed = Lost 3" My thighs were not 30" (wishful thinking andI was wrong they are 25")
Forearms = Gained 1"

But why do I look the same? I am working out 4 days a week and I have raised the intensity of my workouts.

On another note, does anyone use L-Methionine to help burn more fat? Years ago a nutritionist recommended it to me for fat loss but I don't remember all the details.

Here is my current disappointing picture:
http://illiana.i8.com/images/Personal/03-02-2010A.jpg


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## Marat (Mar 2, 2010)

I think you've been successful so far --- 18lbs since December is pretty good progress. 


It's difficult to gauge the exact poundage that will translate to the physique that you are looking for. Keep up the good work, stick to your dieting and try to get through this period of uncertainty.


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## T_man (Mar 2, 2010)

I think changing your body is kinda like growing tall during your adolesence. Other people notice because they see you every now and again but because you see yourself everyday (maybe in the mirror), there are very gradual changes that you might not notice. I myself have been like this. When I first started I didn't think I was making progress till I compared old pictures to new ones. Maybe you should try taking a now picture and compare yourself to it to see that you really are making progress.


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## jmorrison (Mar 2, 2010)

ArnoldsProtege said:


> I don't know what your body type is, but for some reason my intuition makes me believe you are like me.
> 
> 5'10 ish, carrying around fat but also very muscular, strong upper body, legs like tree trunks with little fat, but always had issue with fat around the chest and gut. Meso/endo mix, where you put on muscle easilly, but the gooey yellow stuff just the same. Maybe even a capricorn?
> 
> ...



Holy shit did you just nail me.  6 foot, holding at 215-220. 18in neck, 18" arms, 36in waist, and no matter what I do I cant get rid of the spare tire.  I was down to 12% bodyfat before they started coming off.  

Built gave me the best advise on this, and I will state it for you:

"No matter how hard you try, you can't drain the deep end of the pool first"

If you are predisposed to holding fat in that area, it will be the first place you gain fat and the last place you lose it.  Just keep at it.


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## kyle64 (Mar 2, 2010)

Seeing how I am built, back to one of my original questions, can I get to a 168lb weight without a lot of muscle loss and health problems?


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## jmorrison (Mar 2, 2010)

What is your current BF% and weight?


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## danzik17 (Mar 2, 2010)

kyle64 said:


> Seeing how I am built, back to one of my original questions, can I get to a 168lb weight without a lot of muscle loss and health problems?



How did you arrive at 168lbs?  Just curious.

If you keep the weight on the bar to give the muscle a reason to hang around in a deficit in addition to getting adequate protein, then there's no reason you should lose an excessive amount of muscle.  SOME muscle loss is to be expected when you're losing upwards of 50lbs total.


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## roastchicken (Mar 3, 2010)

Could it be that the hard to shift fat deposits around the lower torso are hormone related? lower back and abdominal fat are often indicative of high cortisol levels , have you thought about using growth hormone? perhaps including some kind of OBLA training or Giant sets where a lactic threshold is met could spike a bit of GH naturally.This could alter your body composition without further restricting your calories.

RC


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## kyle64 (Mar 3, 2010)

My current weight is 208 lbs and BF I am not sure about, I know my BMI is 32.5% but I heard BMI is not reliable because there are different types of bodies and it may not apply to someone who has a larger frame, what ever that means.
168 lbs was a wild guess, I just don't think 198 lbs is going to give me the look I am seeking, that is 10 lbs from now and if you saw the picture I posted I don't think 10 lbs is going to really make that much difference.


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## kyoun1e (Mar 3, 2010)

Kyle,

I think you need to take a deep breathe here and realize that first you've made great progress so far. You should enjoy it and congratulate yourself.

Second, I wouldn't get hung up on some arbitrary weight goal of 168 lbs. And don't get so hung up on what the scale says. The mirror will let you know if you've arrived at where you want to be.

It's a process. Just keep at it. Make sure you take necessary diet breaks so you don't hit the wall. The journey to arrive at your destination is without doubt an emotional rolleroaster. Just stay the course. You'll get there.

KY


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## Marat (Mar 3, 2010)

kyoun1e said:


> Kyle,
> 
> I think you need to take a deep breathe here and realize that first you've made great progress so far. You should enjoy it and congratulate yourself.
> 
> ...



I agree with all of this.


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## dave 236 (Mar 3, 2010)

Just wanted to add to the good advice already given.I've been where you are,and it sounds like alot of others have too.You've made commendable progress and your wife is not just being nice; you don't lose that much and someone that close not notice.You,like the rest of us will always be your own worst critic. Think of fat like snow;it melts last where it's piled the deepest.Stay with the plan and Like Kyoun1e said don't get worried about how much the scale reads you'll know when you see it in the mirror.


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## kyle64 (Mar 3, 2010)

I appreciate all the positive input from you guys. I am a little unsure about how much mid section workout I should be doing, I was working my abs, obliques and lower back every other day. A body builder I know told me it was a bad idea for me to be doing that much mid section training because it is only going to make my waist bigger. 
Should I be doing a lot of midsection workouts? That is the area where I have most of my fat.


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## rayray715 (Mar 3, 2010)

diet is key to abs.


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## kyoun1e (Mar 3, 2010)

kyle64 said:


> Should I be doing a lot of midsection workouts?



Nope. 

I think 2-3 heavier sets 2-3 times per week is plenty. 

KY


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## dave 236 (Mar 3, 2010)

When your bf gets low enough you'll see abs.Work your core twice a week at most.


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## jmorrison (Mar 3, 2010)

roastchicken said:


> Could it be that the hard to shift fat deposits around the lower torso are hormone related? lower back and abdominal fat are often indicative of high cortisol levels , have you thought about using growth hormone? perhaps including some kind of OBLA training or Giant sets where a lactic threshold is met could spike a bit of GH naturally.This could alter your body composition without further restricting your calories.
> 
> RC



Could you go into a little more detail on this?  The majority of my fat is stored in my lower back and around the sides.  I have fairly defined abs long before this even starts coming off.


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## fufu (Mar 3, 2010)

Well since it was asked, 168 lbs at 5'9'' isn't indicative of being malnourished nor is it an unhealthy weight.

But I think you are peering too far into the future for yourself. 18 lbs off and decreased measurements means you look different. Sure maybe the pictures don't do the trick for you, but there is a difference. 

Play it by ear, there is no need to resort to drastic long term decisions in weight loss.

Consider this - 

You went from 225 lbs to 207 lbs. That accounts for 8% loss of total body weight. When you looked at your pictures, you didn't notice much of a change. Your current goal is to reach 198 lbs, which would result from 12% of total body weight loss.

Now if you lose 30 lbs from 198, that is 15%. My point is, the lighter you get, the more each pound counts as a percentage of your total body weight lost. The lighter you get, the more each pound lost will make a visual difference.

If you have two 6' individuals, one being 220 lbs and the other 200 lbs, and they both lose 20 lbs, the latter one's appearance will have a more significant change because he lost a greater total percentage of body mass. 

Just stick with your program and good things will happen.


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## danzik17 (Mar 3, 2010)

fufu said:


> Well since it was asked, 168 lbs at 5'9'' isn't indicative of being malnourished nor is it an unhealthy weight.



Not at all.  I was 163lbs last summer and I'm right around 5'9".  If anything I still had a bit of chub.


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## fufu (Mar 3, 2010)

danzik17 said:


> Not at all.  I was 163lbs last summer and I'm right around 5'9".  If anything I still had a bit of chub.



Different body types can carry mass differently. But generally I think anything over 150 lbs is OK for anyone under 6' tall. 

I used to be 135 lbs while being 6'. I definitely wasn't unhealthy, but I could have used some mass. I was a skinny motherfucker though!


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## roastchicken (Mar 4, 2010)

I cannot find any research papers to stand behind right now but this is a laymans explanation of what i'm saying to you.

When muscles contract vigorously for long periods, the circulatory system begins to lose ground in delivery of oxygen (necessary for energy production). In these conditions the breakdown of glucose is converted to lactic acid. As the lactate is produced in the muscles, it leaks out into the blood and is carried around the body. If this condition continues, the functioning of the body will become impaired and the muscles fatigue very quickly. This point is often measured as the lactate threshold. 

The aim of the training system is to saturate the muscles in lactic acid, which will educate the body's buffering mechanism to deal with lactic acid more effectively. Thus raising the anaerobic (lactate) threshold. It's not the lactic acid that causes the burn in the muscles as you exercise, but the hydrogen ions released as the lactic acid leaks out. An elevation in blood lactic acid levels is a major trigger of growth hormone (HGH) release. Increasing HGH,is beneficial for gaining muscle / lean tissue and reducing fat.

Human growth hormone works by increasing the amount of IGF-1 that our livers excrete. IGF-1 blocks insulin from transporting glucose to our cells. After we eat, our pancreas usually releases  insulin in sufficient levels to convert carbohydrates into glucose. The body stores this in fat cells to use for energy. HGH induced IGF-1 stops this happening and so forces the body to burn fat for energy.

HGH Fat Loss works like this:  Normally we use glucose for energy  and only when that is gone do we use the fat reserves. By blocking the use of the glucose, the theory is that we can get  significant fat loss. 

I'm sorry, as i said before i can't find any papers right now linking hgh's effect on cortisol level with a view to reducing abdominal fat but you could look into what charles poliquin has to say about it, his biosignture course focuses a lot on hormonal based fat distribution. 

However Ultimateley you will never lean out if calories in exceeds calories out.

RC


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## jmorrison (Mar 4, 2010)

Thank you, very informative.  I will do more research on this.


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## kyle64 (Mar 4, 2010)

I generally hate doing cardio unless I am outside but the weather is too  cold now to be outside cycling or running so I am only doing 20 minutes  a day tops cardio but I do a lot of floor strength exercises, about an  hour then I go on with the weights.
Am I going to have increase cardio to get to my goals?


> However Ultimateley you will never lean  out if calories in exceeds calories out.


Since October 29th I have not gone over my calorie limit, not one day. At my current weight my daily intake to maintain is 3120, I eat between 1700 and 2200 calories per day on my diet rest days I go up to around 2700!
Could you explain how I can do what you are suggesting *roastchicken*? Is this what  you mean by giant sets? http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/33-the-giant-set-routine-.html


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## fufu (Mar 4, 2010)

kyle64 said:


> I generally hate doing cardio unless I am outside but the weather is too  cold now to be outside cycling or running so I am only doing 20 minutes  a day tops cardio but I do a lot of floor strength exercises, about an  hour then I go on with the weights.
> Am I going to have increase cardio to get to my goals?



No, there is no need to increase cardio to further weight gains. Keep your calories in check and the weight will come off.

Dietary control should always be the primary focus when losing weight. If you find you aren't getting the results you want, the problem always lays in the diet volume, not the exercise volume.


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## roastchicken (Mar 4, 2010)

kyle64 said:


> I generally hate doing cardio unless I am outside but the weather is too  cold now to be outside cycling or running so I am only doing 20 minutes  a day tops cardio but I do a lot of floor strength exercises, about an  hour then I go on with the weights.
> Am I going to have increase cardio to get to my goals?
> Since October 29th I have not gone over my calorie limit, not one day. At my current weight my daily intake to maintain is 3120, I eat between 1700 and 2200 calories per day on my diet rest days I go up to around 2700!
> Could you explain how I can do what you are suggesting *roastchicken*? Is this what  you mean by giant sets? The Giant Set Routine! | Muscle & Strength



First off i am not saying increase cardio, in fact if you  are going to go ahead and commence lactic acid type training then you actually want to limit cardio.

What you have posted a link for is Tri-sets ,these are a perfect example of lactic threshold training, same body part tri-sets are awesome for lactic  accumulation. giant sets are more like circuit training and can contain numerous different exercises.

look into charles poliquins GERMAN BODY COMPOSITION 6-12-25 brutal does not describe leg day

rc


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## kyle64 (Mar 4, 2010)

From what I am reading about Giant sets they are for those who are pretty advanced in body building. 
I am going start it with lighter weights to get my body used to it.


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## Built (Mar 4, 2010)

I read "blah blah blah NUDE PIX"!

Am I the only one? Anyone? Anyone?

Bueller...?


kyle64 said:


> I took pictures of myself nude on December 16th, since then I have lost 18 pounds of blubber and gained some muscle mass on my arms and legs even though I am not trying to gain any mass at all I am just trying to get thin.
> 
> Today I took pictures of me in the same spot, same light, same distance from camera in the same 4 poses (front, turned to right, turned to left and from behind) and to my disappointment I don't look much different.
> 
> ...



You're not missing anything. You're a boy. You hold your weight in your middle like I hold mine on my ass. Being fat sucks - the shit just SETTLES IN. Once you start cutting, it seems like it takes FOREVER for it to show. Believe me when I say I feel your pain. 



jmorrison said:


> Holy shit did you just nail me.  6 foot, holding at 215-220. 18in neck, 18" arms, 36in waist, and no matter what I do I cant get rid of the spare tire.  I was down to 12% bodyfat before they started coming off.
> 
> Built gave me the best advise on this, and I will state it for you:
> 
> ...



jmorrison - I forgot I said that - usually I read stuff I've written and think "oh crap, did I say that?" - lol - this time I'm actually proud of myself!





kyle64 said:


> Seeing how I am built, back to one of my original questions, can I get to a 168lb weight without a lot of muscle loss and health problems?



At your height, this should not be impossible. Not by any means. But let's see what you look like at 180 - you might be pleasantly surprised. Fat loss seems to produce visual thresholds - nothing shows, then "there's the bicep vein"... then nothing for  a while, then "oh, look, delt veins..." 

Heh. Quantum fat loss. Grrr... 



kyoun1e said:


> Kyle,
> 
> I think you need to take a deep breathe here and realize that first you've made great progress so far. You should enjoy it and congratulate yourself.
> 
> ...


NO SHIT on the DIET BREAKS!!!

kyle64, have you taken a break from cutting and tried shifting to maintenance yet? It might be a good time to do this, reset yourself a bit, get stronger and then resume cutting. Besides, it's important to *learn how to maintain your loss or you won't keep it off. *





kyle64 said:


> I appreciate all the positive input from you guys. I am a little unsure about how much mid section workout I should be doing, I was working my abs, obliques and lower back every other day. A body builder I know told me it was a bad idea for me to be doing that much mid section training because it is only going to make my waist bigger.
> Should I be doing a lot of midsection workouts? That is the area where I have most of my fat.



You CAN make your waist thicker from more ab work - if you're bulking! On a cut, you're not going to pack on any size. And you can't spot reduce. As the others have noted, keep your ab work low-rep and heavy, outside of injury prevention/core activation stuff if that's your bag. 



kyle64 said:


> I generally hate doing cardio unless I am outside but the weather is too  cold now to be outside cycling or running so I am only doing 20 minutes  a day tops cardio but I do a lot of floor strength exercises, about an  hour then I go on with the weights.
> Am I going to have increase cardio to get to my goals?


It can contribute to the deficit a bit, but don't look to cardio for your fat loss. Do it for your health, a little, and pretend it doesn't burn anything. Treat the slight deficit as a perq and leave it at that. 



kyle64 said:


> From what I am reading about Giant sets they are for those who are pretty advanced in body building.
> I am going start it with lighter weights to get my body used to it.



You can try this, but honestly, you might want to take a diet break at maintenance for a month, then hit the cut again. It's not being weak or being a quitter - it's strategy.


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## kyle64 (Mar 4, 2010)

OK what you say makes sense I think I will make April my month to take a break, right now I am having way too much fun (believe it or not) dieting and working out so I don't want to do it in March.
So to be accurate, on my maintenance month I should eat 15 calories multiplied by my current weight? So let's say I am at 205 by the end of the month should I eat around 3075 calories a day or should I eat a little less to avoid gaining weight?


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## Built (Mar 4, 2010)

Eeeeuuuhhhmmm... no. Not quite. 

You'll gradually increase your calories. So - if your current intake is m calories a day, go to say m+200 a day for a week. You will immediately hold about an extra three pounds. Relax. It's glycogen. 

The week after this, go to m+300, then m+400 etc until you see gains. Then drop it back and maintain. 

While you do this, start lifting more like a bodybuilder than like you're cutting - you can handle more training volume with more food. 

Oh - unless you train high reps now? I cut on low rep training.


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## kyle64 (Mar 4, 2010)

It is all high reps 15-18 per set, I do some super sets but no giant  sets yet. I am currently eating around -1000 a day in calories sometimes  even less. For some reason I don't have much of an appetite anymore  other than about an hour of my workouts, I wrote about this before and  the folks here suggested adding nuts to the diet which I did otherwise I  went through a period eating under 1500 calories a day.


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## Curt James (Mar 4, 2010)

kyle64 said:


> It is all high reps 15-18 per set, I do some super sets but no giant  sets yet. I am currently eating around -1000 a day in calories sometimes  even less. For some reason I don't have much of an appetite anymore  other than about an hour of my workouts, I wrote about this before and  the folks here suggested adding nuts to the diet which I did otherwise I  went through a period eating under 1500 calories a day.



I did 1500 calorie days for two months. At times I'd dip down to 800 calories. Definitely lost a lot of what little muscle mass I possessed at the beginning of the cut, but the bodyfat was beaten.

Did juice fasts on some days, too. The waitresses at the local diner would laugh when I'd come in and ask for pickle and tomato slices plus black coffee.

My goal was to lose two pounds per week. And I achieved that goal like clockwork, but at the end of the cut I looked sick. Unfortunately, not diesel sick but _hospital _sick. Not good.

In other words, be careful what you wish for! lol

Wishing you success in reaching your goals!


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## kyle64 (Mar 4, 2010)

Curt James said:


> I did 1500 calorie days for two months. At times I'd dip down to 800 calories. Definitely lost a lot of what little muscle mass I possessed at the beginning of the cut, but the bodyfat was beaten.
> 
> Did juice fasts on some days, too. The waitresses at the local diner would laugh when I'd come in and ask for pickle and tomato slices plus black coffee.
> 
> ...



The lowest I have eaten in one day since I started dieting was 1300 calories and that was a bad bad day for me. I read somewhere that if you take enough supplements to make sure you have the minerals and amino acids you should be and not get sick if you never dip under 1200 calories per day and you should not do that for more than 3 days at a time.


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## kyle64 (Mar 9, 2010)

Last 3 days I have increaed my food intake to around 2800 calories per day because I have intensified my workout, what sucks is I have gained 4 pounds in those 3 days.
What the hell is going on?


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## Built (Mar 9, 2010)

Your carbohydrate intake has likely gone up, so you're finally reglycogenating. 

Also, you are likely holding more... um... in your colon. 

Finally, the extra volume in your workouts may be inducing a bit of systemic inflammation.

Either that, or you have magically overconsumed the 14,000 calories required to gain four pounds of adipose tissue. 

In short, relax. Pay attention to what happens to your weight after this initial little bump.


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## danzik17 (Mar 9, 2010)

I'm with Built on that one.  It's all water, glycogen, and poop.

Hell when I do UD2.0 style carbups, it's not surprising to gain TEN lbs in 1 day


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## kyle64 (Mar 10, 2010)

I think there is something wrong with my scale, I am gonna go out and buy a new one today, this morning after I used the bathroom I had dropped the 4 pounds which is impossible.


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## DaMayor (Mar 10, 2010)

kyle64 said:


> I think there is something wrong with my scale, I am gonna go out and buy a new one today, this morning after I used the bathroom *I had dropped the 4 pounds which is impossible*.









Not according to Klee Irwin.

On a serious note....don't obsess over the scale. Pele' (y'know, soccer guy)used to loose 5lbs. *per match*. As Built, et al, have stated, there are many other factors involved. The scale can really interfere with your progress if you base your entire success on those few pounds.


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## kyle64 (Mar 23, 2010)

I have been experimenting with my grams of fat/protein/carbs. 

The other day I  felt lack of energy so I increased my carbs by 30 grams. 
 I did my workout and was rather active that day, the next morning I saw it on  my face and cheeks even though I did not gain any weight.
 I am currently doing 230 grams of protein 120 grams of fat and about 100  grams of carbs but I am not losing weight and I am at 202 lbs.
*Can my liver and body in general handle 300+ grams of protein a day? *

I am not  sure I can consume that much protein in one day since as it is I don't have much  appetite, should I increase my fat grams instead? I have been running on 1000-1200  calories a day deficit for months now.
I am worried about long term damage to my body from such a low calorie diet for my weight, I believe I am supposed to be at 3030 calories a day maintenance. I tried eating nuts to increase my calories but I am into them and I can only eat less than half a cup before feeling nauseous.

Any suggestions would be helpful.


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## Marat (Mar 23, 2010)

kyle64 said:


> *Can my liver and body in general handle 300+ grams of protein a day? *


Yes, it's not a problem.



kyle64 said:


> I am not  sure I can consume that much protein in one day since as it is I don't have much  appetite, should I increase my fat grams instead?



That's a certainly acceptable option. As long as you hit your minimums, whatever you do after that is up to you.


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## kyle64 (Mar 23, 2010)

I am glad you are on this forum, I appreciate it m11


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## Marat (Mar 23, 2010)

my pleasure, bud


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## kyle64 (Mar 24, 2010)

Here is what I am going to eat today, it is an example menu that I would like to eat variations of 5 days a week.

Fiber1 51% cereal with cup of Silk Soy Milk *13gr* 5gr fat _*52gr Carbs*_
Brunch 6 Egg Whites 1 yolk Omlette wrapped in flour tortilla *30gr *23gr fat _*28*__*gr carbs*_
Lunch 2 Grilled Skinless Chicken Breasts + Baked Potato *90gr *10gr fat *35gr carbs* 
1 oz Peanuts *7gr* 15gr fat _*6gr carbs*_ 
Workout
Protein Shake *24gr* 4gr fat _*32gr carbs*_
1/2 cup of Fiber1 57% with 1/2 cup of Soy Milk *6gr* 3gr fat _*30gr carbs*_
Dinner 10 Oz Lean Seriloin Steak *87gr* 5 oz French Fries 5 oz 31gr fat _*25*__*gr carbs*_


*Total Protein 257 grams = 1028 calories 46%*
*91 grams of fat = 819 calories 16%*
*208 grams of carbs = 832 Calories 38%*
2679 Calories ideal for active 185 pound male (my eventual goal)
I tried doing a menu where I only eat 100 grams of carbs a day and the menu made no sense, it would be stuffed with saturated fats. My doctor when I had my physical 3 weeks ago told me not to go under 35% carbs as it would be dangerous for my health at my age and adding saturated fat to my diet would be a bad idea, it would raise my chances of heart disease regardless of how muscular or fit I might be!
I am open to any ideas or suggestions!


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## weightbob (Mar 24, 2010)

i have read a fair amount of research that suggests that "low" carb diets are no more effective than regular diets. It always comes down to calories in < calories used, you will lose weight. My best advice is to eat often 5/6 times a day, drink plenty of water, eat a lot of fibre, do weights once every 2 days and in the days in between i'd be inclined to do some cardio, if you find normal cardio boring, what about HIIT? I would say you don't have to vary calories between workout days and non workout days, as long as your in a deficit you should be losing some fat


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## sassy69 (Mar 24, 2010)

kyle64 said:


> I just had my wife help me measure to compare to my 10-29-09 measurements. I am a Leo by the way and 5'9" tall
> Here are the changes:
> 
> Chest = Gained 1"
> ...



From your measurements you are absolutely showing the effects of your fat loss efforts - but I think you're going to be looking at some proportional losses when you "looK" at yourself vs the quantitative measurements. The fact that your pants are comfortable several waist sizes down, says you're doing something right. 

At this point I want to say that you don't necessarily need to "lose weight" to get to this more visual image you're expecting. Instead of just continuing to lose weight, I think you're going to hit a point where your weight will remain nearly the same but your BODY COMPOSITION will start to change.

As an example, when I started prep for a show a few yrs ago, my weight went from roughly 164 to 162 and I dropped 8% bodyfat.

Keep doing what you're doing and don't get discouraged - keep taking your individual body measurements to show that you're still making progress. Also note that we don't drop bodyfat the same across our bodies - a perfect example is when women do a strict diet & training program and see results in their upper bodies, sometimes even to the level of getting reasonably ripped, but the lower half isn't looking like its budging - the reason is that women tend to have a higher concentration of bodyfat around the hips / waist / thighs, as is dictated by the fat patterns encouraged by the presence of estrogen.  Say you lost 5% bodyfat - that would be much more apparent in an area w/ fewer fat cells than it would in an area that has more. So to get the butt whittled down, you just keep at the program and eventually the bodyfat loss starts to show there as well. 

BTW - Congrats on the 18 lb! The other thing is now that you have that rate of bodyfat burning up & established, keep it going and it will continue to work with you. You should see the soft areas going down faster and the other areas of muscle mass coming up.


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## kyle64 (Mar 25, 2010)

Thanks sassy and weightbob. 
The menu I had yesterday sucked, I felt completely stuffed, I did not like it, I felt like it was way too much food. 
Today I am just eating whatever but watching the portions and will stay under 2700 but I am enjoying myself a lot more than I did yesterday, something about having a set menu for the whole day stressed me out!


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## sassy69 (Mar 25, 2010)

kyle64 said:


> Thanks sassy and weightbob.
> The menu I had yesterday sucked, I felt completely stuffed, I did not like it, I felt like it was way too much food.
> Today I am just eating whatever but watching the portions and will stay under 2700 but I am enjoying myself a lot more than I did yesterday, *something about having a set menu for the whole day stressed me out!*



This is funny - I actually worry if I don't have all my food with me. Every time I have assumed I can go out & pick something at a restaurant, I screw myself and can't find anything that is on my diet. I make all my food the night before, do a mass cooking of protein, and sometimes rice or barley a couple times /week, and eat pretty much the same meal plan every day. This is about the only way I can deal w/ eating anymore without worrying if I'm going to turn into a blob.


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## kyle64 (Mar 28, 2010)

my body never seizes to amaze me. 26th and 27th I ate nothing from the time I woke up till 8 pm then ate like crazy till I went to sleep and averaged 2800 cals each day. This morning I got up went to bathroom and I have shed 3 pounds, mind you I am regular twice daily so it is not about emptying my guts. 
Today I am going back to eating 4 times a day! I think I will just keep shocking the hell out of my body every time it get's stuck at a weight as many here have advised. Needless to say I am very happy this morning!


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## Curt James (Mar 28, 2010)

kyle64 said:


> The lowest I have eaten in one day since I started dieting was 1300 calories and that was a bad bad day for me. I read somewhere that if you take enough supplements to make sure you have the minerals and amino acids you should be and not get sick if you *never dip under 1200 calories per day and you should not do that for more than 3 days at a time.*



I never got sick, but I doubt I preserved any muscle. I'm not one to pack on muscle size and just decided to go the other way and strip all the fat off and not worry about losing some muscle along the way. Used a diet from an Ellington Darden book I dropped to 149 and rebounded to 186, lean. But then I somehow found my way to 200 and *not *lean.  Following a keto diet now and was 194.3 on the (hopefully accurate) digital scale.



kyle64 said:


> my body never seizes to amaze me. 26th and 27th I ate nothing from the time I woke up till 8 pm then ate like crazy till I went to sleep and averaged 2800 cals each day. *This morning I got up went to bathroom and I have shed 3 pounds*, mind you I am regular twice daily so it is not about emptying my guts.
> Today I am going back to eating 4 times a day! I think I will just keep shocking the hell out of my body every time it get's stuck at a weight as many here have advised. *Needless to say I am very happy this morning! *



Excellent news!


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## kyle64 (Mar 28, 2010)

Thanks Curt, what is going to happen to the excess skin the more weight I lose? I don't want to be a saggy water bag


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## Curt James (Mar 28, 2010)

^If you're being serious  I've read that skin elasticity varies greatly and will have an impact on whether you have loose skin after your weight loss. I've heard that losing excess weight slowly will afford your skin more time to adjust as well. 

You've heard of Bruce Randall? He's someone who lost a tremendous amount of weight, but his skin adjusted perfectly. I'm certain he had his share of stretchmarks, though.  Check this out... (pics at the end)

*http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/d...randall-attaining-definition.html#post1982762*


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## kyle64 (Mar 28, 2010)

Thanks Curt, I am very serious, I don't want sagging skin, if I can get Bruce Randall's results I will be a very happy man. 
Why does the forum keeps asking me to relog in even though I just logged on a few minutes earlier?


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## sassy69 (Mar 28, 2010)

kyle64 said:


> my body never seizes to amaze me. 26th and 27th I ate nothing from the time I woke up till 8 pm then ate like crazy till I went to sleep and averaged 2800 cals each day. This morning I got up went to bathroom and I have shed 3 pounds, mind you I am regular twice daily so it is not about emptying my guts.
> Today I am going back to eating 4 times a day! I think I will just keep shocking the hell out of my body every time it get's stuck at a weight as many here have advised. Needless to say I am very happy this morning!



Don't get hung up on the day to day weight changes - you can gain / drop 3-5 lb over the course of the day due to water. (I.e. if you weigh yourself in the morning you'll be a couple lb lighter than at the end of the day usually)

Pay more attention to the overall trend and how your clothes fit. Where I'm going w/ this is so that, unless its part of your program (i.e. scheduled) I'd not recommend randomly not eating all day, scarfing in all your cals at one sitting before bed just to see the scale go down a few lb (probably due to water) the next day. Let us know if you rebounded after that or actually maintained that weight drop.


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## sassy69 (Mar 28, 2010)

kyle64 said:


> Thanks Curt, I am very serious, I don't want sagging skin, if I can get Bruce Randall's results I will be a very happy man.
> Why does the forum keeps asking me to relog in even though I just logged on a few minutes earlier?




Unless you're talking about on the order of a 100 lb weight loss, your skin will catch up. Its not uncommon for me to drop 20-30 lb for competition prep, and these days the last thing to come in is my lower back, but it always does. Just slower than the bodyfat you're losing. Usually when your diet has established a burn rate & is cruising, you'll start to see, for ex, around your mid-section, instead of the abs you're dying to see, there's loose skin that looks like a deflated tire - but as you continue w/ the diet, you'll see this tighten up. Its all still just water & bodyfat.

Skin is made up of pockets of water & fat - you just need to keep dieting to let that change come about - always remember that "bodyfat loss" isn't just happening on the "macro level" (i.e. the obvious stuff you can see - around the mid-section, lower back ,etc) - but continuous, proportionally and at all levels within your body.


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## jmorrison (Apr 2, 2010)

kyle, when i cut the fat I had some excess skin and HORRIBLE stretch marks.  They both have vastly improved.  Also, I started using coconut oil instead of soap (thanks again Doms and Built) recently, and they have both improved even more.


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## kyle64 (Apr 2, 2010)

Today I put on a pair of Levis Signature I picked up from Walmart and they are size 34" standard (not relaxed fit) the pants fit great and very comfy. I am ecstatic to say the least.


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