# what's the best fat burner, period?



## cheesegrater (Jan 7, 2003)

that i could get at a gym or GNC?

i'm 6'2 195lbs, about 7-10lbs extra body fat


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## ShaqFu (Jan 8, 2003)

I"m a big fan of straight ECA (Ephedrine/Caffeine/Aspirin).. but if you're rich you can try Hydroxycut. It's got the same basic ingredients plus a few little bonuses.


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## Fit Freak (Jan 8, 2003)

If you think you need it try Twinlab's Ripped Fuel.  I have read it meets label claims unlike Hydroxycut and in the past it has worked for me.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 8, 2003)

Fat burner?  Define fat burner?

The best thermogenic product is and E/C stack, don't waste your money on hydroxycut, which is the same think, just more money.

I have heard great things about Avant's new product FL7, which I am not yet up on the science, so I can't describe how it works.  

Yohimbine added to an E/C stack is supposed to be good.

I have heard Cayenne powder works, but my stomach couldn't handle it.

Look into Usinic Acid, which is a controvertial supplement.

P.S.  Buy online, much cheaper and better (more knowledgable) service.  I like 1fast400.com.


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## Robboe (Jan 8, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Fat burner?  Define fat burner?
> 
> The best thermogenic product is and E/C stack, don't waste your money on hydroxycut, which is the same think, just more money.
> ...



Isn't FL7 pulled now?


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## Twin Peak (Jan 8, 2003)

No.


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## Robboe (Jan 8, 2003)

Ooooooooooooooooo...

I thought it was going with the other transdermals?

I haven't read avantlabs for donkeys.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 8, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> I haven't read avantlabs for donkeys.



Que?


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## Robboe (Jan 8, 2003)

'Donkeys years' = A long time.

'Donkeys' = a shortend way of saying it.

A bit like when something is good and is called 'the dogs bollocks', but gets shortend down to 'bollocks'.

We're a strange nation alright...


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## Twin Peak (Jan 8, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 'Donkeys years' = A long time.
> 
> 'Donkeys' = a shortend way of saying it.
> ...



Que? (re dog's bollocks)

I'll bear in mind the donkey definition in the future, Rob.  And yes, quite strange!


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## BUSTINOUT (Jan 8, 2003)

Well, since I'm asssuming you mean legal, I'll keep my mouth shut. lol

OTC, ripped fuel always did right by me.


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## RoCk79 (Jan 8, 2003)

I have seen some reports that ripped fuel is not good for you.  Did they change the ingrediants for it?  

Also, I thought I Read somewhere, that they are no longer selling hydroxycut due to the affects it has on people.  Has anybody else heard this?


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## RoCk79 (Jan 8, 2003)

Just read DP's thread on viscious rumors...About Hydroxycut no longer being sold.  Answered my own question..I knew I read that somewhere...HAHA


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## Twin Peak (Jan 8, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by RoCk79 *_
> I have seen some reports that ripped fuel is not good for you.  Did they change the ingrediants for it?
> 
> Also, I thought I Read somewhere, that they are no longer selling hydroxycut due to the affects it has on people.  Has anybody else heard this?



Why do we talk so much of products?  Products are only as good as there ingredients.  Don't take any product unless (1) you know the ingredients and (2) you know why the ingredients work.  If you understand that THEN you can make informed PRODUCT choices.

Sorry, this irritates me.


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## gopro (Jan 8, 2003)

Most of the basic ECA stacks work well...

-Ripped Fuel
-Xenadrine
-Hydroxycut
-etc

I have found ADRENALINE by Gennapharm very useful as it contains non-herbal ingredients. I also like VPXs Clenbutrx.


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## david (Jan 8, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Most of the basic ECA stacks work well...
> I also like VPXs Clenbutrx.




You know I was waiting for you to say this!!!!!


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## gopro (Jan 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by david *_
> You know I was waiting for you to say this!!!!!




Of course!


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## Hammerlynn (Jan 9, 2003)

I used that stuff too for a while! LOVED it! But back in Aug I stopped taking any thermos. If I ever use them again....it will be Clenbutrx!


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## david (Jan 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Hammerlynn *_
> I used that stuff too for a while! LOVED it! But back in Aug I stopped taking any thermos. If I ever use them again....it will be Clenbutrx!



Hammer, I believe if you've laid off it for this long, DON'T go back and try the other non ephedra free drinks!  Your doing yourself a favor.........   in other words, don't be come an addict like I once was...!


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## Freeman (Jan 9, 2003)

I take Ripped Fuel before a workout in the morning because I can really only work out in the AM before classes.  And I hate waking up..and I HATE coffee!  so, it gives me a little boost in the morning.  But, I only take what I have, then lay off for a few months..I'm on my 2nd cycle now...I don't take them 3 times a day like the F-ing label says..I'm not on a cut!  just need to wake up!


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## david (Jan 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by freeman1504 *_
> I take Ripped Fuel ..........I'm not on a cut!  just need to wake up!



Good thing your not on a cut bc/ it contains some carbs, I believe!  Check the bottle......  Good choice.


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## Hammerlynn (Jan 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by david *_
> Hammer, I believe if you've laid off it for this long, DON'T go back and try the other non ephedra free drinks!  Your doing yourself a favor.........   in other words, don't be come an addict like I once was...!



I was pretty obsessed with taking it but now I dont care anymore. It was funny at work though cleaning out my syringe  Damn they all thought I was juicing!


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## david (Jan 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Hammerlynn *_
> I was pretty obsessed with taking it but now I dont care anymore. It was funny at work though cleaning out my syringe  Damn they all thought I was juicing!



You were!  There was Winny V in the Clen that you were taking.... didn't you know?  J/K!!!!   All I need is VPX seeing this!


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## Mudge (Jan 10, 2003)

7-10 pounds is NOTHING, the "best" stuff is extremely dangerous, although I'm sure you could get it at some gyms, its illegal, or prescription depending on what it is.


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## kuso (Jan 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Ooooooooooooooooo...




TCD....I just sw Mike is now selling it in the 8oz size.


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## gopro (Jan 10, 2003)

I ONLY use fat burners before I compete! They remain most effective for fat burning that way...and I hate to rely on stimulants to "get up" for my workouts.


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## Freeman (Jan 10, 2003)

I know I know...I probably shouldn't take them, but it's just hard for me to be awake so early in the AM.  Like I said, I'll cut them out in a few weeks or so probably.  I'll try to stear clear of them for a while after that...


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## Twin Peak (Jan 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> I ONLY use fat burners before I compete! They remain most effective for fat burning that way...and I hate to rely on stimulants to "get up" for my workouts.



Yeah, but do you train at 5:30 in the friggin morning?  I need either a cup of coffee or an EC stack.


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## gopro (Jan 10, 2003)

Don't matter when I train...I still go "stim" free up to about 12 weeks before a show! But then again, I'm not normal...


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## Freeman (Jan 10, 2003)

Hahaha..yeah you're a "freak" gopro!  But, we all love ya!


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## Twin Peak (Jan 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Don't matter when I train...I still go "stim" free up to about 12 weeks before a show! But then again, I'm not normal...



Yeah, but you didn't answer the question.


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## gopro (Jan 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by freeman1504 *_
> Hahaha..yeah you're a "freak" gopro!  But, we all love ya!



And I love ya'll right back!


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## gopro (Jan 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Yeah, but you didn't answer the question.



True, I did not...no, I don't train at 5:30 in the morning. I train right in between my morning and night "shifts" at work. For me, thats around 3:00...but believe me, it feels like 5:30 am!


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## BUSTINOUT (Jan 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by david *_
> Good thing your not on a cut bc/ it contains some carbs, I believe!  Check the bottle......  Good choice.



No carbs, hense the name...RIPPED fuel.  

Two tabs contain:
Chromium..................................200mcg
MaHuang Extract.......................334mg
Guarana Seed Extract...............910mg
L-Carnatine...............................100mg


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## david (Jan 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by BUSTINOUT *_
> No carbs, hense the name...RIPPED fuel.
> 
> Two tabs contain:
> ...



I know it's an ABB product, Ripped Force is the drink I was referring to.  I'll check  in a few minutes at the gym....

Yeah, it was Ripped Force!  Sorry!


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## Twin Peak (Jan 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> True, I did not...no, I don't train at 5:30 in the morning. I train right in between my morning and night "shifts" at work. For me, thats around 3:00...but believe me, it feels like 5:30 am!



Well, that's sorta my point.  Normally I have coffee in the am, and often drink coffee on my way to/at the gym (if its first thing) since I NEED my coffee.  

I only take an EC as a coffee replacement, or when dieting for its thermo effect.  If I train latter in the day, I am not taking anything to "get up" for it.


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## Kent777 (Jan 14, 2003)

Cardio cardio cardio!  YOu can even make your lifting cardio!


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## gopro (Jan 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Well, that's sorta my point.  Normally I have coffee in the am, and often drink coffee on my way to/at the gym (if its first thing) since I NEED my coffee.
> 
> I only take an EC as a coffee replacement, or when dieting for its thermo effect.  If I train latter in the day, I am not taking anything to "get up" for it.



Well, I train my first client at about 5:30 am and they often ask me if I drink coffee or take a thermogenic before I come into work. When I tell them that I don't, they look at me as if I'm nuts. Then they realize that its probably good that I don't b/c I torture then enough without it. If I took an "upper" they know they may not ever be able to move ever again, LOL.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Kent777 *_
> Cardio cardio cardio!  YOu can even make your lifting cardio!



Cardio sucks.


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## Kent777 (Jan 14, 2003)

Why does cardio suck?  Do you hate your heart?  Do you hate your lungs?  Do you hate your circulatory system?  Why do you have these bent up frustrations towards cardio?  I feel there is a deeper issue with you and cardio.  Did your mother not do enough cardio with you as a child?


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## Twin Peak (Jan 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Kent777 *_
> Why does cardio suck?  Do you hate your heart?  Do you hate your lungs?  Do you hate your circulatory system?  Why do you have these bent up frustrations towards cardio?  I feel there is a deeper issue with you and cardio.  Did your mother not do enough cardio with you as a child?



I generally dislike cardio because it has the wonderful side effect of putting your body into a catabolic state.

Do you like being catabolic?


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## Twin Peak (Jan 14, 2003)

BTW, Kent,

Are you so presumptious to presume that you know a thing about me?  About my mental emotional state?  About my physical well being?  Or are you so naive that you honestly believe that "cardio" is the only (or even the best) way to improve heart condition?  Lung capacity?  Or circulatory functioning.

I haven't done cardio for years but:

- my resting heart rate is 55
- my blood pressure is 106/60
- and my cholestrol is very good

Or you can do cardio, try to achieve those results and burn muscle while doing it.  Yippee!


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## Robboe (Jan 14, 2003)

I find squatting and deadlifting does my heart rate nicely.

Every so often though, i decide to improve my sprinting and so work on that aspect.

BTW i'm lmao @ Kent saying TP has a deeper issue about cardio.

That's brilliant.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> BTW i'm lmao @ Kent saying TP has a deeper issue about cardio.
> 
> That's brilliant.



Yeah, well screw you Rob!  It has nothing to do with the fact that as a fat kid my mother put a ring ding on a string and held it in front of a treadmill!  NOTHING I TELL YOU!


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## Robboe (Jan 14, 2003)

Hahaha...


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## Kent777 (Jan 14, 2003)

Yes I love being catabolic,it ,means I am getting somewhere.  You seem very touchy about your childhood and cardio TP.  Maybe you and I should dig deeper into whats really bothering you!


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## Robboe (Jan 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Kent777 *_
> Yes I love being catabolic,it ,means I am getting somewhere.




Smaller?


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## Freeman (Jan 14, 2003)

exactly...smaller? 

I am wondering if he knows what catabolic means??  Or is he one of those guys that thinks he does, but really doesn't?...ahh, the evidence is mounting..


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## gopro (Jan 14, 2003)

Ok, as someone that graduated with a degree in psychology I am very tempted to jump into this cardio and deeper childhood issue thing, but I'll refrain...

...on a physical note, I do believe that cardio does have a proper place in a weight training plan. It just has to be done properly and within the confines of a total diet and training plan. It can be overdone and lead to overtraining for sure, but it can also be done with great benefit.


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## david (Jan 14, 2003)

I think I'm in that category of Overtraining (cardio)  but the psyche says, "go to the gym and release thy energy"


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## kuso (Jan 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Smaller?


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## Kent777 (Jan 14, 2003)

Ok explain your definition of catabolic.


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## KataMaStEr (Jan 14, 2003)

Catabolic: ???Body eat muscle for energy??? is there anything else?


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## Robboe (Jan 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Ok, as someone that graduated with a degree in psychology I am very tempted to jump into this cardio and deeper childhood issue thing, but I'll refrain...




Hahaha...

I'm finding this cardio/childhood issues thing rather humerous.


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## Robboe (Jan 15, 2003)

By the way, catabolic is the opposite of anabolic.

Anabolism is "growth", so catabolism is kinda like "atrophy".

Although it's not just muscle cells that can be in a state of catabolism. Every living cell can be. Like AIDS victims or those with Parkinsons disease (that's the one where they waste away yeah? Or am i thinking of Hodgkinson's disease?) - they're in a constant state of catabolism.

Cardio burns calories (that may otherwise be used for anabolism) and just like any training, cause cortisol release into the bloodstream (catabolic stress hormone).

Like Gopro said, it's very possible to do cardio and grow (with weights as well that is) but for most they either cycle cardio around their cutting/bulking cycles or keep it in moderation at all times.

End of the day, the only thing you'd appreciate being in a state of catabolism, is your fat cells.


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## Freeman (Jan 15, 2003)

Like gopro said, cardio does have it's place.  Just don't overdo it or you will be disappointed with your gains in size/strength.  (if those are your goals).  As for me, I do no cardio.  I am trying to increase strength and size and will only worry abuot doing cardio some time way down the road.  I love running and used to go 2-3 miles EVERY morning before breakfast...then would hit the gym later in the day.  No size increases or strength increases were the result.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 15, 2003)

I am LMAO at this whole thread.  I can't believe I am debated the usefulness of cardio with a schmoo who doesn't know the definition of catabolism.  Thanks gang, for explaining it.

As to its usefulness.  I don't think cardio is the devil.  I too think that it has a place.  I just think that the place it has is rarely used properly.  I think that it is given much more significance and importance that it typically is given. 

Case in point?  Kent777.  Thank you for proving me correct, albeit unwittingly.  

I think that  a vast majority of the benefits, both health and fitness related, can be achieve through other, typically more effective means, such as weight training and diet.

Absolutely cardio has its place.  But its typically over utilized.

Caveat:  I am discussing cardio in the context of general health and bodybuilding.  Obviously, my statements do not hold true for a marathon runner, for example.  I'd hate to be taken out of context.

P.S.  Perhaps gopro or Rob could start a separate thread where we can all explore what psychological trauma caused my general aversion to cardio.  Perhaps then it would be a great forum for Kent's Pearls of Wisdom (like cardio, cardio, cardio) and we can explore the definition of other important terms like macronutrient.


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## Kent777 (Jan 15, 2003)

Let me correct something. I have no idea or your ages.  I am 41 so at 41 cardio is of mega importance.  I did know the definition of catabolic.  Been lifting for 25 years.  Thought maybe was some reason you didnt like breaking the body down.  Muscles do have to be broken down to grow, right.  So thats the reason I stated I did like catabolic.  ONly temporary not permanent catab


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## Twin Peak (Jan 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Kent777 *_
> Let me correct something. I have no idea or your ages.  I am 41 so at 41 cardio is of mega importance.  I did know the definition of catabolic.  Been lifting for 25 years.  Thought maybe was some reason you didnt like breaking the body down.  Muscles do have to be broken down to grow, right.  So thats the reason I stated I did like catabolic.  ONly temporary not permanent catab



I am 30.

Catabolic is never a state that is conducive to growth.  It is the opposite.  It has nothing to do with microtrauma of muscular tissue.  Oh, let me definite microtrauma.  The tearing of muscle fiber, typically by lifting weights, which is the bodies survival and adaptive mechanism in response to a stress (the new weight), and which is subsequently repaired, so as (typically) to be bigger and stronger the next time.  This is off the top, not a text book definition.

If you are in a catabolic state (by diet, by cardio, by stress, or whatever) and you cause microtrauma in a muscle, typically your body will be UNABLE to cause the repair and adaptive growth.  Instead, it will repair the same or weeker.  So:

1)  You did not understand the term catabolic as used in this context and 
b)  You should never WANT to be catabolic (though it is inevitable at times).

Could you please provide support for this statement:

"41 cardio is of mega importance"

Specifically, I'd like to know what benefit it is you think cardio can confer on someone who is 41 (rather than 15, or 20, or 30, or 60) that cannot be achieved through other means that may or may not be more effective?


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## Robboe (Jan 15, 2003)

Kent, go see Clarence Bass' website.


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## Kent777 (Jan 15, 2003)

Damn TP maybe I been watchin to many infomercials.  If I lag on cardio I can feel it negatively in my weight training. Maybe its just my body.  I do cardio everyday.  20 minutes 5 days  30 -45 minutes the other 2.  I always felt the cardio after weights helped get the lackic acid out.  Ok explaining your question.  Cardio at 41 is important because older you get you need to keep it up,,, ,so important because keeping yourself motivated and not becoming a  slacker. does that make sense.  I sit at a desk all day trading stock options and commodities. I NEED CARDIO!!! LOL


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## Twin Peak (Jan 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Kent777 *_
> Damn TP maybe I been watchin to many infomercials.



Perhaps.  



> _*Originally posted by Kent777 *_
> Ok explaining your question.  Cardio at 41 is important because older you get you need to keep it up,,, ,so important because keeping yourself motivated and not becoming a  slacker. does that make sense.  I sit at a desk all day trading stock options and commodities. I NEED CARDIO!!! LOL



No, that makes no sense, sorry.  Please try again.  What is it you need to keep up?  Remember the context of my question please, or reread it.

As you get older, you naturally lose muscle.  This causes a reduction in metabolism, which in turn causes a natural fat increase.  This is why we tend to gain weight.  Weight training, obviously, can counteract this.  Cardio will not, and can only impede your weight training, not help it (unless you are just using it as a warm-up/cool down).  Cardio doesn't flush lactic acid (unless you have a study that supports this).  

Again, I am not saying that YOU shouldn't do cardio.  I am simply saying that too many people do cardio for the wrong reasons.

Lets say person (A) HATES to lift weights.  But loves cardio.  S/he should do cardio because a weigh program will likely fail in the long run.  So, it does have a place.

Lets say person (B) does cardio because (i) it helps reduce bodyfat, or (ii) it improves cardiac functioning, or (iii) it improves circulatory functioning, or (iv) it prevents bone degredation as you age, or (v) [do you get the point....] then THEY SHOULD BE WEIGHT LIFTING, since all of those "goals" are more effectively achieved through weight training.


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## gopro (Jan 15, 2003)

TP...your last couple of posts are so long that all that typing probably counts as cardio...have you lost any size, LOL!


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## Freeman (Jan 15, 2003)

that rules!


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## Twin Peak (Jan 15, 2003)

A little, they have certainly made my brain catabolic.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Kent, go see Clarence Bass' website.



Rob, since you are english you really should know this but proper english requires that you put an 's after any word that is not plural.  Thus, the possessive of a man named Bass would be Bass's.

Or if you were to refer to a mule's leg, it would be ass's.  Should you refer to multiple mules' legs, then it would be asses'

Just thought an individual of your esteemed education and attention to detail should be aware of this.


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## Freeman (Jan 15, 2003)

Twin Peak cracks me up!


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## Twin Peak (Jan 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by freeman1504 *_
> Twin Peak cracks me up!



Glad to oblige.  Um, that is, if you are laughing with me, and not at me!


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## gopro (Jan 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by freeman1504 *_
> Twin Peak cracks me up!



Yeah, he is really getting quite the sense of humor lately. He might be dieting?


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## Freeman (Jan 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Glad to oblige.  Um, that is, if you are laughing with me, and not at me!



With you with you...not at you!


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## Freeman (Jan 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Yeah, he is really getting quite the sense of humor lately. He might be dieting?



Yes, that could be...definite possibility. :agree:


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## Twin Peak (Jan 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Yeah, he is really getting quite the sense of humor lately. He might be dieting?



Lately?  WTF is that supposed to mean?  Maybe it is you who has developed the sense of humor and now appreciate mine!  

P.S.  Maybe its bulking, dieting does not make me funny!


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## gopro (Jan 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Lately?  WTF is that supposed to mean?  Maybe it is you who has developed the sense of humor and now appreciate mine!
> 
> P.S.  Maybe its bulking, dieting does not make me funny!



No, lately you have had a little more "venom" in your humor! But thats ok...I KINDA LIKE IT!


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## Twin Peak (Jan 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> No, lately you have had a little more "venom" in your humor! But thats ok...I KINDA LIKE IT!



Ah, yes, I think that is true.  I wondered if anyone noticed.  THAT could be due to dieting, but alas I am not.

I am simply tired of being TOO nice.


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## Kent777 (Jan 15, 2003)

I see your point,,, ok let me ask you this then,,, are you saying that weight training done right I can deep 6 my cardio and stend it on weights completely?  Also whats the maximum time a person can spend lifting, i hear that after 1 to 1 1/4 hours you are doing more harm that good.  is that true. thanks


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## Freeman (Jan 15, 2003)

anything much over an hour is typically over training...plus, I find that I just get sick of being there that long!  when I'm there that long it's cuz I'm taking too long in btwn sets or bullshitting with people in the gym...


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## gopro (Jan 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Kent777 *_
> I see your point,,, ok let me ask you this then,,, are you saying that weight training done right I can deep 6 my cardio and stend it on weights completely?  Also whats the maximum time a person can spend lifting, i hear that after 1 to 1 1/4 hours you are doing more harm that good.  is that true. thanks



I must add my opinion here. I do not think you should drop out your cardio completely. Reasonable amounts of cardio is a healthy thing. I think that 20-30 minute sessions done 3 x per week is just fine without causing overtraining problems. Weight workouts should not take more than an hour. As long as your nutrition is sound you should not have problems with going catabolic. If your goal is all around fitness and a nice physique, than balance is the key.


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## Robboe (Jan 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Rob, since you are english you really should know this but proper english requires that you put an 's after any word that is not plural.  Thus, the possessive of a man named Bass would be Bass's.
> 
> Or if you were to refer to a mule's leg, it would be ass's.  Should you refer to multiple mules' legs, then it would be asses'
> ...



Actually mate, both ways are perfectly acceptable.


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## cornfed (Jan 16, 2003)

I'd give input on this thread, but it would better belong in the subforum


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## Robboe (Jan 16, 2003)

Druggy.


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## gopro (Jan 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Druggy.




You took the words right outta my mouth, LOL!


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## researchchems4u (Jan 16, 2003)

Best fat burner is dnp, but yohimbine hcl  and clen work nicely, especially for women!!!


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## david (Jan 16, 2003)

ya hit that right on the research!!!


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## Mudge (Jan 16, 2003)

I like low impact stuff, walking or the stationary bike, I do not like true cardio.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Kent777 *_
> I see your point,,, ok let me ask you this then,,, are you saying that weight training done right I can deep 6 my cardio and stend it on weights completely?  Also whats the maximum time a person can spend lifting, i hear that after 1 to 1 1/4 hours you are doing more harm that good.  is that true. thanks



Generally yes, but that depends on your goals, your physique, your normal metabolic rate, and your history.  Personally, I feel few things can be stated without a context.

Generally, though, if your primary goal is to increase muscle mass, weight training alone, along with a sound nutritional plan can accomplish all the other side benefits you may want (healthy heart, increased metabolism and circulatory functioning, protection from bone loss as one ages, lower cholesterol and blood pressure, fat loss, etc.).  

Again it depends on your goals.  If you are perfectly happy with your current muscle mass than by all means, continue cardio.

If you wish to train for endurance (marathon, etc) or improve sprinting than do cardio.  But you better make sure you are doing a cardio-type that fits the bill.  Low impact cardio (as oppsed to HIIT) provides little benefit, cardiac or others, that weight training doesn't.


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## cornfed (Jan 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Druggy.


Bastards...    it has nothing to do w/ use but the mere fact of effectiveness and that's what the question was  

Also note that I didn't go that direction anywho.... bastards


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## gopro (Jan 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by cornfed *_
> Bastards...    it has nothing to do w/ use but the mere fact of effectiveness and that's what the question was
> 
> Also note that I didn't go that direction anywho.... bastards


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## gopro (Jan 20, 2003)

By the way...the MOST POTENT FAT BURNER OF ALL IS DYING!!! I have never seen a skeleton with more than like 0% bodyfat.

So here is the strategy...

1- die
2- decompose
3- wait
4- decompose some more

Bang, you're shredded!


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## Kent777 (Jan 20, 2003)

Thats stupid!


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## Jodi (Jan 20, 2003)

No Kent, THAT was humor!


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## gopro (Jan 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> No Kent, THAT was humor!



Thank you for clarifying for me Jodi...I thought it was pretty funny...


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## Freeman (Jan 20, 2003)

good call


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## Jodi (Jan 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Thank you for clarifying for me Jodi...I thought it was pretty funny...



Anytime!


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## gopro (Jan 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Anytime!


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## Twin Peak (Jan 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Thank you for clarifying for me Jodi...I thought it was pretty funny...



Well, I didn't think it was funny, though I recognized it as an attempt at humor.   

But Kent, did you REALLY think he was serious?  Where did this guy come from?


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## Britney (Jan 21, 2003)




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## gopro (Jan 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Well, I didn't think it was funny, though I recognized it as an attempt at humor.
> 
> But Kent, did you REALLY think he was serious?  Where did this guy come from?



You didn't think THAT was funny? Did you drop a barbell on your head? That was f%cking hilarious!!!! No sense of humor...none...TP is humorless


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## Tank316 (Jan 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> I must add my opinion here. I do not think you should drop out your cardio completely. Reasonable amounts of cardio is a healthy thing. I think that 20-30 minute sessions done 3 x per week is just fine without causing overtraining problems. Weight workouts should not take more than an hour. As long as your nutrition is sound you should not have problems with going catabolic. If your goal is all around fitness and a nice physique, than balance is the key.


hell yes.    you da man.


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## Twin Peak (Jan 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> You didn't think THAT was funny? Did you drop a barbell on your head? That was f%cking hilarious!!!! No sense of humor...none...TP is humorless



Britney wouldn't agree.  And I'd rather she think I was funny, than you.


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## cornfed (Jan 21, 2003)

LOL,  the irony is that in vary rare instances, what Gopro said has been achieved by those looking to cut up... ie: ODing or eating disorders or suicide  

But I thought it was humorous


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## Arnold (Jan 21, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> By the way...the MOST POTENT FAT BURNER OF ALL IS DYING!!! I have never seen a skeleton with more than like 0% bodyfat.
> 
> So here is the strategy...
> ...



hmmm...you would not be shredded though cause you would not have any muscle!


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## gopro (Jan 21, 2003)

Well Prince...at some point during the decomposing process there is probably some muscle left on top of the skeleton. In this instance the corpse is pretty shredded. Later, when there is no muscle and no bodyfat we can say that the corpse got his bodyfat nice and low but in the process lost too much muscle. Probably wasn't lifting heavy enough or using glutamine.

TP...it WAS funny, AND I am much funnier than you! You are very moody lately!


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## Twin Peak (Jan 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> TP...it WAS funny, AND I am much funnier than you! You are very moody lately!



Moody?  Moi?  Maybe its the PHs!!!!  I thought you said my humor was more venomous or something like that.  Now I am moody?  Hmm. 

Actually, yes it was slightly humorous.  I was just busting your chops -- which, people like Brit found even funnier than your joke.  So, perhaps, in fact, you are not funnier.

Question for you.  Does size = humor?  Perhaps.

P.S.  Saying your own joke was funny does not humor make.  No matter how many times you do it!


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## kuso (Jan 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> 
> 
> P.S.  Saying your own joke was funny does not humor make.  No matter how many times you do it!



LMAO..yopu are strating to remind me of someone


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## gopro (Jan 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Moody?  Moi?  Maybe its the PHs!!!!  I thought you said my humor was more venomous or something like that.  Now I am moody?  Hmm.
> 
> Actually, yes it was slightly humorous.  I was just busting your chops -- which, people like Brit found even funnier than your joke.  So, perhaps, in fact, you are not funnier.
> ...



No, size does not equal humor...but you ARE moody and venemous lately (this is a good time for some WBB members to come around).

I know you were busting my chops, but I can still complain about it...which makes it all the funnier.

Now, saying my joke was funny does not MAKE it funny...it WAS SIMPLY FUNNY! I was laughing while writing it. But, I have a twisted sense of humor.

Now just shut up and go pick on someone your own size!


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## Twin Peak (Jan 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Now just shut up and go pick on someone your own size!



Now THAT was funny!


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## Britney (Jan 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Britney wouldn't agree.  And I'd rather she think I was funny, than you.


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## gopro (Jan 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Britney *_



No love...no love at all...


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## gopro (Jan 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Now THAT was funny!



Thank goodness


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## Twin Peak (Jan 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Britney *_



Na na na na........na na na na......hey hey hey....goodbye....


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## kuso (Jan 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_



Damned dude...that was your years supply of smileys!!


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## Twin Peak (Jan 23, 2003)

Yup, definitely shot my load.  But I got my point across right? LOL


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## gopro (Jan 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Na na na na........na na na na......hey hey hey....goodbye....



Thats ok, I still have Erilaya on MY side!!


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## Twin Peak (Jan 23, 2003)

and she is where?  Not here.


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## cornfed (Jan 23, 2003)

Does Ize needza' slap my bi-hatches or wazzup in diz place?


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## gopro (Jan 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> and she is where?  Not here.



Good point! ERIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII...where are you?????????? I need assistance...


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