# Got my M1T cycle, where to buy?



## Dale Mabry (Nov 20, 2003)

So, I have decided on the following methyl 1-T cycle/postcycle:

(Week 1)-10mg M1T 
(Weeks 2-3)-20mg M1T
(Week 4)-40mg Nolva
(Weeks 5-7) 30mg Nolva

Of course, I will be running liver support throughout.  I figure I could get 2 decent cycles of M1T from one bottle using this method, but I am still deciding on where to get it from.  I was figuring kilosports or millenium fitness, but wanted to know if there was anywhere on the east coast that had their prices so i wouldn't have to wait a week or two.  It is ridiculous that it is so much cheaper considering it is the supposedly the same product.  I want to order this tomorrow am.  I figure if I use a couple weeks worth of beer money to buy it, protein and ancillaries I should be able to go through a decent cycle alcohol free.


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## ZECH (Nov 20, 2003)

Power nutrition sells 5mg tabs for $30 in bulk. Don't know how much bulk is???


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## ZECH (Nov 20, 2003)

You have to buy 10 bottles to get this price($300)
5mg 60 tabs is $50 AMT brand!


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## ZECH (Nov 20, 2003)

They have meso labs 80 tabs for $75 (10mg) better deal!


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## ZECH (Nov 20, 2003)

Remember Kilo's is in capsule form


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## SJ69 (Nov 20, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> 
> They have meso labs 80 tabs for $75 (10mg) better deal!


 Seems like Millenium is the best deal I will be ordering their's for $50.00
what's a week extra to wait?


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## Twin Peak (Nov 20, 2003)

I'd go with the cheapest.  Last I heard it was kilo.  I heard rumors though that the initial run by Meso Labs was properly filtered and anything else will be about 25% impure.

The impurities are rumored to be d-bol, so its good or bad depending on your views.


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## ZECH (Nov 21, 2003)

Also word is, once the original batch is gone, Meso will not be making a M 1-T anymore.


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## ZECH (Nov 21, 2003)

Also Dave, I've been reading about dosage. Most that have went over 20mg, don't see much if any increase but the sides do increase. I know TP and Dante took more(Dante like 60 or 70mg), but the concensus is more is not better.


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 22, 2003)

Well, things have happened.  I purchased my M1T from kilosports, so I guess I will be the guinea pig on their product.  I also got Biotest surge for immediately postworkout and Micellean MRP for just before bed.  I will be running creatine along with it as well as liver and joint support.  I will be starting the day after Thanksgiving since that will give me exactly 3 weeks before I go back to VT for x-mas and, I assume, a ton of drinking.  I should have all the supps by Monday, But I am waiting a little bit so that I can purchase the nolva right as I start just in case any aromatization issues arise before postcycle.


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## odin52 (Nov 22, 2003)

why wouldn't you wait until after christmas so all the drinking doesn't take away from your gains and tax your liver more,just wondering because I have the same dilema. I want to impress the people back home but I don't want to lose it all.


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 22, 2003)

I don't really think I will lose it all, we are just talking on the weekend I get back.  I would imagine that I would not lose all of my gains in a 2 day period.  I would also imagine that the calorie surplus i will have will also help slow catabolism.  I will be taking liver support throughout and won't be drinking while I am on the M1t.

Oh yeah, 1 more thing.  I figure I do 1 cycle as posted above for the 3 weeks coming into xmas which will use up 35 of the 90 pills.  Then, I take 2 weeks of from xmas thru new year.  Immediately coming into the new year, I start another cycle with the 55 remaining caps so problem solved.  The only thing is, I haven't decided if I will do it on a cutting cycle or another bulking cycle.  I am thinking cutting so I will be able to see it from both sides and it would be a good way to start off my drop to a shredded physique by March.  I hear this stuff may be better during a cut anyway.


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## odin52 (Nov 22, 2003)

oh okay, sounds pretty reasonable I hope it works for you. It is so hard to have something ready to go and wait to take it. New supps just burn a hole in my pocket I want to try them right when they come in the door.


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 23, 2003)

Me 2, I may actually start tomorrow when they get here if I decide not to go anywhere for Thanksgiving.


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## Skate67 (Nov 23, 2003)

damn dude howcome you have so much nolva in there..... i thought m1t doesnt aromatize


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## odin52 (Nov 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> Me 2, I may actually start tomorrow when they get here if I decide not to go anywhere for Thanksgiving.





NICE! Good luck.


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## gopro (Nov 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by ST240 *_
> damn dude howcome you have so much nolva in there..... i thought m1t doesnt aromatize



It doesn't...clomid would be a better choice. However, if you use it 2 weeks on, two weeks off, at 20 mg per day, you can easily get away with Aromadex or 6-OXO off cycle.


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## plouffe (Nov 24, 2003)

6-OXO - how much does that go for ?


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 24, 2003)

I have been told that nolva + HCG is better as a postcycle test booster.  Personally, I don't want to take chances on this one.  By the way, I received my M1T from Kilosports today, it has a Gaspari Nutrition label.  Big ups to the folks at kilosports, I placed my order on Friday and told them I wanted it Monday.  They told me I could do 3rd day air for $9, but ended up sending it 3rd day for only $5.  I paid $39.95 by the way for 90 capsules.


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## Twin Peak (Nov 24, 2003)

I think KS makes it for Gaspari.


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 24, 2003)

Yeah, that be what I heard on Avant, TP.  I lurk there from time to time.  I suppose after I do this cycle I can pop over there and drop a post as to whether it is bunk or not.


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## ZECH (Nov 24, 2003)

Alot of people say nolva vs clomid is personal choice. Either one I think will work.


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## Twin Peak (Nov 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> Yeah, that be what I heard on Avant, TP.  I lurk there from time to time.  I suppose after I do this cycle I can pop over there and drop a post as to whether it is bunk or not.



You lurker you. 

Yeah, you should let everyone know.  I ordered 10 bottles, so I am quite confident.


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 24, 2003)

When you are dealing with people tryig to make moeny, you will always have people chraging more and saying the cheape stuff is crap.  Personally, I have used $30 creatine and $10 creatine and found them both to be equally as effective.


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## Twin Peak (Nov 24, 2003)

In sum, when Legal Gear was the only supplier, he was able to make a huge profit.  As it was a new product, it was probably a fair profit as well (such is the way of capitalism).  

When supracompetitive prices are being charged, because there is no competition, and market demand is high, and barrier entries are low, you can always expect someone to come in and undercut them.

I am certain that the product is legit, the only question is whether the impurities are filtered out, and if not, do you care.


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 24, 2003)

If they are impurities of the good kind, then no, I don't care.  If the guy from KS shit in the batch, I have issues.


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## ZECH (Nov 24, 2003)

From big cat:

While practically similar compounds in structure, few people ever really consider Clomid and Nolva to be similar. Its not just a common myth in steroid circles, but even in the medical community. This misconception originates from their completely different uses. Nolvadex is most commonly used for the treatment of breast cancer in women, while clomid is generally considered a fertility aid. In bodybuilding circles, from day one, clomid has generally been used as post-cycle therapy and Nolvadex as an anti-estrogen. 

But as I intend to demonstrate this is in essence the same. I believe the myth to have originated because Nolva is clearly a more powerful anti-estrogen, and the people selling clomid needed another angle to sell the stuff, so it was mostly used as a post-cycle aid. But few users really understand how clomid (and also Nolvadex, logically) works to bring back natural testosterone in the body after the conclusion of a cycle of androgenic anabolic steroids. After a cycle is over, the level of androgens in the body drop drastically. The body compensates with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up. Estrogen as well inhibits the production of natural testosterone, and in the period between the return of natural testosterone and the end of a cycle, a lot of mass is lost. So its in everybody's best interest to bring back natural test as soon as humanly possible. Clomid and Nolvadex will reduce the post-cycle estrogen, so that a steroid deficiency is constated and the hypothalamus is stimulated to regenerate natural testosterone production in the body. That's basically how the mechanism works, nothing more, nothing less. 

Both compounds are structurally alike, classified as triphenylethylenes. Nolvadex is clearly the stronger component of the two as it can achieve better results in decreasing overall estrogen with 20-40 mg a day, than clomid can in doses of 100-150 mg a day. A noteworthy difference. Triphenylethylenes are very mild estrogens that do not exert a lot, if any activity at the estrogen receptor, but are still highly attracted to it. As such they will occupy the receptor and keep it from binding estrogens. This means they do not actively work to reduce estrogen in the body like Proviron, Viratase or arimidex would (by competing for the aromatase enzyme), but that it blocks the receptor so that any estrogen in the body is basically inert, because it has no receptor to bind to. 

This has advantages and disadvantages. The disadvantage is that when use is discontinued, the estrogen level is still the same and new problems will develop much sooner. The advantage is that it works much faster and has results sooner than with an aromatase blocker like Proviron or arimidex. Therefor, when problems such as gynocomastia occur during a cycle of steroids one will usually start 20 mg/day of Nolva or 100 mg/day of clomid straight away, in conjunction with some Proviron or arimidex. The proviron or arimidex will actively reduce estrogen while the clomid or Nolvadex will solve your ongoing problem straight away. This way, when use is discontinued there is no immediate rebound. 

So which one should you use? Well personally, I'd have to say Nolvadex. Both as an on-cycle anti-estrogen and a post-cycle therapy. As an anti-estrogen its simply much stronger, demonstrated by the fact that better results are obtained with 20-40 mg than with 100-150 mg of clomid. For post-cycle, this plays a key role as well. It deactivates rebound estrogen much faster and more effective. But most importantly, Nolvadex has a direct influence on bringing back natural testosterone, where as clomid may actually have a slight negative influence. The reason being that Tamoxifen (as in Nolvadex) seems to increase the responsiveness of LH (luteinizing hormone) to GnRH (gonadtropin releasing hormone), whereas clomid seems to decrease the responsiveness a bit1. 

Another noteworthy fact about Nolvadex is that it acts more potently as an estrogen in the liver. As you remember, I mentioned that clomiphene and tamoxifen are basically weak estrogens. Well, tamoxifen is apparently still quite potent in the liver. This offers us the positive benefits of this hormone in the liver, while avoiding its negative effects elsewhere in the body. As such Nolvadex can have a very positive impact on negative cholesterol levels2 in the body, and therefore too should be considered a better choice than clomid. It will not solve the problem of bad cholesterol levels during Steroid use, but will help to contain the problem to a larger degree. 

Another reason why I promote the use of Nolvadex over Clomid post-cycle (as if being 3-4 times stronger and having more of a direct effect on restoring natural test wasn't enough) is because it's a lot safer. Not just because it improves lipid profiles, but also because it simply doesn't have the intrinsic side-effects that Clomid has. Clomid causes more acne for sure, but that's mainly because you need to use a 3-4 times higher dose. But Clomid seems to also affect the eyesight. Long-term clomid therapy causes irreversible changes in eyesight3 in users. Irreversible. For me that alone is reason enough to prefer Nolvadex. 

Lastly, one should be aware that use of these compounds can reduce the gains made on steroids. Nolvadex more so than clomid, simply because it is stronger. Estrogen is responsible for a number of anabolic factors such as increasing growth hormone output, upgrading the androgen receptor and improving glucose utilization. This is why aromatizing steroids like testosterone are still best suited for maximum muscle gain. When reducing the estrogen levels, we therefore reduce the potential gains being made. For this reason one may opt to try clomid during a cycle instead of Nolvadex. Although I would imagine that the problem that needed solved would be of more concern, in which case Nolva remains the weapon of choice. It's a plain fact that there is a high correlation between gains and side-effects. Either you go for maximum gains and tolerate the side-effects, or you reduce the side-effects, and with it the gains. That's life, nothing is free. 

Stacking and Use: 

If problems of Gynocomastia or other estrogen related symptoms tend to pop up during a cycle the use of 20-30 mg of Nolvadex or 100 mg of Clomid daily should easily contain the problem, and be used until a few days after the problem subsides. For best results and the least amount of problems upon cessation it is best stacked with Proviron (50 mg) or arimidex (0.5 mg) for this duration as well. Its not advised that these products be ran concomitantly with the steroid for the entire duration of the stack, as this will reduce your gains. Instead cease the usage of anti-estrogens once the problem is contained, and should the problem resurface, simply recommence the use of the products in the same manner as described above. 

Once a cycle of steroids is concluded one should always initiate a post-cycle therapy to help bring back natural testosterone as soon as possible. This will help you to retain the mass you gained. How this is done depends highly on the type of steroid used. If only orals were used, therapy should start immediately, even the last day of the stack. If short-acting esters or water-based injectables were used, therapy should commence within 4-7 days after last injection, and if long-acting esters were used then it should commence 1.5 to 2 weeks after the last injection was given. The length of the therapy will vary as well, from 3-5 weeks. The longer acting the product was, the longer therapy should be continued to make sure all suppressive factors are cleared before use of Clomid/Nolvadex is discontinued. 

For best results, it is best stacked with HCG (Human Chorionic gonadotrophin), which functions as an LH analog and can help bring testicle size back up. HCG use starts the last week of a cycle, and on from there every 5-6 days (usually 1500-3000 IU) and discontinued 1.5 to weeks prior to the cessation of Nolvadex/clomid. The reason being that HCG itself is also suppressive of natural testosterone and should be out of the body before therapy is over, or it will inhibit natural testicle function. But I can not stress enough that HCG possibly plays a more important role in post-cycle therapy than clomid/Nolvadex. For Clomid and Nolvadex, doses are usually tapered down. Its best to start with 40-50 mg of Nolvadex or 150 mg of Clomid for the first week or the first two weeks, and then finish the program with 20-25 mg of Nolvadex or 100 mg of Clomid for an additional two weeks.


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 24, 2003)

Good Stuff DG, 2 more things of note.

I have read that mg for mg, clomid and nolva cost about the same, making nolva more cost efficient.  Also, There is an apparent improvement in BP seen with Nolvadex.  Do not take this info as my own, I believe I stole it from Bill Llewellyn over at Mind and muscle.


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## Skate67 (Nov 24, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> I paid $39.95 by the way for 90 capsules.



holy shit thats one helluva deal

where'd you order this from


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 24, 2003)

www.kilosports.com

By the way, I called Millenium and they said they would not be shipping any til after December 6th.


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## SJ69 (Nov 24, 2003)

OK, You convinced me, just bought mine from kilosports, you can't beat the price !!
I guess I'll use 6OXO post.
Wonder if my Doc will write me a script for Tamoxafin if I explain to him what I'm doin' and why it makes sense.
It would be good to have some in case I decide to go with something a little stronger next time.
What's the deal with that thistle milk? health food stores?  Is it proven to protect the liver?
I figure 30mg a day for two weeks, I'll post my results Christmas eve.
Will a couple beers be dangerous with this 1-m-t being 17aa???


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## Skate67 (Nov 24, 2003)

kilo sports has like no info on their product 

any info on the dosage per cap or what it looks like etc etc?


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## ZECH (Nov 25, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by SJ69 *_
> Will a couple beers be dangerous with this 1-m-t being 17aa???


Bad idea. Not only will this stress the liver more, but also raise cortisol levels. Save the beer for after cycle and then only a couple on the weekend.


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 25, 2003)

Well, I am weak, I looked at that big ole bottle of M1T, the bottle of Surge, and the box of Micellean and just couldn't find a reason not to start yesterday, so i did.  I will open a new thread with my thoughts.

ST240, they are 10mg per cap and they are a small capsule.


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## Skate67 (Nov 25, 2003)

so what is the common dosage (caps per day) then


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## Dale Mabry (Nov 25, 2003)

I hear conflicting ideas about that.  From what I hear you should be able to get good results off 20mg per day cycling on for nomore than 4 weeks.  My plan is to do 2 3week cycles at 20mg per day, which should use most of the bottle.


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## Skate67 (Nov 25, 2003)

for someone my size (150lbs) i think i might do 10mg per day for a month then break

edit: or should i go for the 20mg per day for 3 weeks..... but isnt 3 weeks a lil short for 1-test.... Gear users go for like 1.5 months or more.... but i donno if you can even compare the two... just my thoughts


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## ZECH (Nov 26, 2003)

You shouldn't even be thinking of taking it, much less any other PH~


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## Twin Peak (Nov 26, 2003)

DG.  Moral crusader.


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## ZECH (Nov 26, 2003)

Hey someone's got to do it!


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## Twin Peak (Nov 26, 2003)

Its your perogative.


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## Skate67 (Nov 26, 2003)

ehh well i am so i might as well do it correctly, right?


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## ZECH (Nov 26, 2003)

You have no clue.


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## Skate67 (Nov 26, 2003)

lol ok

but thats why im here for the help


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