# What makes a good supplement company?



## gopro (Oct 15, 2003)

Ok guys and gals...what do you think makes for a good supplement company? What can they do better? What pisses you off? What would you like to see changed in the industry? Any and all ideas and thoughts welcomed!


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## Dale Mabry (Oct 15, 2003)

Screw you GP, I'm not doing a VPX focus group for free...


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## oaktownboy (Oct 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Ok guys and gals...what do you think makes for a good supplement company? What can they do better? What pisses you off? What would you like to see changed in the industry? Any and all ideas and thoughts welcomed!


1-Test Well, the price kills me every time 
but that really doesn't answer the question now does it


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## Arnold (Oct 15, 2003)

False advertising, which 95% of them are guilty of.

Using huge pro bodybuilders as their spokesman, when we all know their size has very little to do with taking any legal suppleemts. Some of them do not even use the supps they promote.

Bogus before and after pics, very popular these days.

Naming their products after steroids, or very close to, like Testabol, and other names I cannot think of.

Rediculous prices, I mean how much does it really cost to make whey protein powder? Hell, for decades they thru the crap away during the cheese making process.

Manipulating statistics and using them as advertising claims.

Making ads look like there is "real science" and testing behind them, when there is not.


that's all I can think of right now.


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## Arnold (Oct 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> Screw you GP, I'm not doing a VPX focus group for free...



I know, and he is too cheap to send us any free samples.


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## gopro (Oct 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> False advertising, which 95% of them are guilty of.
> 
> Using huge pro bodybuilders as their spokesman, when we all know their size has very little to do with taking any legal suppleemts. Some of them do not even use the supps they promote.
> ...



Thanks...that is what I'm looking for.


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## gopro (Oct 15, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> I know, and he is too cheap to send us any free samples.


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## Dale Mabry (Oct 15, 2003)

Well, here is a freakin bone for you.

Prince pretty much hit it all on the head from where I stand, but I would like to add a couple things.  

1)Supplement companies passing off anecdotal evidence as fact
2)Taking people who obviously used to be BBers that just came off an injury and showing before after photos.
3)This goes along with Prince's misleading statistics.  I love how whey companies provide support for whey because of it's high BV.  Well, BV is 1 out of about 10 important variables one needs to consider when buying good protein.  It would be like buying a car based solely on color.
3)I am gonna take alot of heat on this one...I absolutely hate how supplement companies are bitching that they are gonna be regulated or such and such is going to be illegal.  That's right, you heard me.  I could probably not even come close to counting the number of supplement companies there are out there.  I guarantee you that I could count the number of them that have sponsored research on their supplements on one hand.  I am talking good research by competent people.  I am a clinical researcher and I can tell you, you don't just throw an experiment together without proper design and a thorough knowledge of how you would go about analyzing your findings.  Customer feedback is all good and dandy, but unless you are controlling for all variables you really can't say supplement A causes result B.  Sure this costs money, but when you get sued by someone and you have performed research that shows the serious adverse reaction that they are having is not a result of the supp, you save quite a chunk of change.

By the way, I would be more than happy to lend a little of my time to some supp companies that are willing to put in the extra effort to test their products, just as long as it doesn't interfere with my job or sex life.


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## bigswole30 (Oct 15, 2003)

Are you reffering to a specific company. I know for a fact VPX, Beverly, and Muscletech do actuall studies on their products.

That's right, I said Muscletech.


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## Dale Mabry (Oct 15, 2003)

1)That is only 3 companies

2)Who performs said research for these componies?  As I said, unless the researcher performing the study is qualified, you can not call the research relevant.  If these studies were truly GOOD research, you would think the companies would be publishing their results and you would be seeing the work in a reputable journal.  I believe Biotest is the only company that I have seen publish their findings.  Maybe the others are, but I am not seeing this.


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## bigbrownbear (Oct 16, 2003)

Any hype or marketing is a turn off. I dont wanna pay more for a product coz they spent heaps on marketing.


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## ZECH (Oct 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> 2)Who performs said research for these componies?


The company themselves! This is why it is such a conflict of interests. We need an independant person/company to do the evals just like Mike tried to do. But it does get expensive. Then you have the lawsuits when you call their bluff on the products, then you waste more money and time in court!


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## ZECH (Oct 16, 2003)

And 1-ad!


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## gopro (Oct 16, 2003)

Ok, continue...what makes a good or bad supplement company?


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## 1Fast400 (Oct 16, 2003)

If continue to make post will they be edited out as the last ones have?


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## gopro (Oct 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by 1Fast400 *_
> If continue to make post will they be edited out as the last ones have?



If they don't answer the question and simply bash VPX, then yes, they will be ousted.


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## 1Fast400 (Oct 16, 2003)

I answered your question by showing the problems I had with VPX.


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## gopro (Oct 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by 1Fast400 *_
> I answered your question by showing the problems I had with VPX.



You used this as a forum to single out one company that you are biased against. This is not a supp company bashing thread and that is what you tried to make it into.


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## Dale Mabry (Oct 16, 2003)

There is no problem with the company themselves doing the research.  The problem arises when you have unqualified people performing half-assed studies.  Like I said, I am willing to get involved and I am sure that I am not the only one.  It could be something as little as making a proper questionnaire/case report form that supplement companies could send out with free samples.  I actually drafted one up for the xtremeformulations guy since he was so nice to give me free supps and I will give him my draft once my trial is over and he can copy it or do whatever with it.  We could wax intellectual over what makes good reseach all day, but I am not gonna whore GPs thread.  By the by, here is another thing I hate about supp companies:

7 page ad reports that repeatedly tell you the same thing.  They remind me of when I was in high school and had to write a 10 page paper.  About 2 pages of that paper was relevant info, the other 8 pages was about re-wording the same information a different way.


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## Twin Peak (Oct 16, 2003)

Interesting thread.


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## topolo (Oct 16, 2003)

i would like it if a supplement company actually sent out the free samples of redline they promised.


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## ZECH (Oct 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> You used this as a forum to single out one company that you are biased against. This is not a supp company bashing thread and that is what you tried to make it into.


Knowing Mike, I know there are others he could have mentioned. Like Molecular nutrition and Bill L. And you did ask for what pisses you off! I thought he had valid points and did not directly bash VPX. I think you could come up with negative comments about any company. Mike does carry VPX products. But he does not carry MN products for a reason!


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## Twin Peak (Oct 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> I know, and he is too cheap to send us any free samples.



We aren't.


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## gopro (Oct 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Knowing Mike, I know there are others he could have mentioned. Like Molecular nutrition and Bill L. And you did ask for what pisses you off! I thought he had valid points and did not directly bash VPX. I think you could come up with negative comments about any company. Mike does carry VPX products. But he does not carry MN products for a reason!



I asked for general responses, not for specific complaints or praises of specific companies. If I wanted that I would have just put up a thread saying: What is your favorite company and why?


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## Arnold (Oct 16, 2003)

Here I have something to add....

Supplements are so overrated it's not even funny, in fact it's sad. If people would pay as much attention to their diet/nutrition and training as they do the hottest new suppplement on the market they might actually make gains.

I do not want to sound like a hipocrite cause I take many supplements, however I am the first person to tell people to stop worrying about which supplement to take and focus on what they eat. 

The ironic thing is before gopro worked for VPX he did not spend much time talking about supplements, in fact if I remember correctly he spent most of his time preaching proper training and nutrition.


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## Twin Peak (Oct 16, 2003)

I agree Prince, but people would rather pay then work hard.  Its life.

I agree 100% that supplements are not nearly as important than proper training and diet.  That said, supplements (the right ones) can make a significant different.

I talk mostly about supplements (and always have) because to me, it is the most interesting topic of conversation.


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## Arnold (Oct 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> ... but people would rather pay then work hard.



true, but you have to see the irony in that.


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## nikegurl (Oct 16, 2003)

I'm impressed when they offer money back guarantees on products.  Even if I never return anything I like knowing that they believe in their products enough to put the offer out there.  I know Avant does this.  So does Beverly.  Maybe others too but those I know for a fact.


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## Twin Peak (Oct 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> true, but you have to see the irony in that.



Of course.  But its human nature.


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## topolo (Oct 16, 2003)

i still like companies that send out the free samples they promise


!!


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## gopro (Oct 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by topolo *_
> i still like companies that send out the free samples they promise
> 
> 
> !!



Dude, you'll get it...they didn't promise it by any specific date, did they?


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## TheGreatSatan (Oct 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by bigswole30 *_
> Are you reffering to a specific company. I know for a fact VPX, Beverly, and Muscletech do actuall studies on their products.
> 
> That's right, I said Muscletech.



But any other company tries to do research on them, Muscletech says their research is flawed.


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## Triple Threat (Oct 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> they didn't promise it by any specific date, did they?



You're right, GP, there was no mention of a specific date, but is there any indication as to when they might be shipping?


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## gopro (Oct 17, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by CaptainDeadlift *_
> You're right, GP, there was no mention of a specific date, but is there any indication as to when they might be shipping?



I think they are about ready now. They were waiting to get a certain # of people signed up before sending them out, and they just hit that #. The offer is now closed. I wish I had more personal control over this as I would have sent them out as they came in...but, thats not my dept unfortunately.


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## topolo (Oct 17, 2003)

i was just giving you a hard time gp.


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## Twin Peak (Oct 17, 2003)

Wait a minute.

Muscletech performs double blinf studies on their products?

And these studies show 17,658% improvement?

Anyone want to buy a bridge?


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