# Clenbuterol Vs. Sodium Usinate / Usnic Acid



## M.J.H. (Jan 30, 2005)

In terms of fat-loss guys, what would you recommend? I am currently taking 200mg of sodium usinate twice a day. First thing in the morning and before bed, not noticing many side-effects other than more sweaty in the gym, some foggy-mindedness, etc. 

I keep reading how effective Clen is, etc. Any advice?


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## Tha Don (Jan 30, 2005)

personally i'd go with clen - safe and effective

i've heard that usinic acid and dnp are better for fat loss, but i've also read about some pretty nasty long-term sides that they can cause

its upto you to decide if its worth the risk


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## Tha Don (Jan 30, 2005)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Usnic Acid: Good, Bad, Or???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ugly. Really ugly, according to researchers. Usnic Acid is a substance currently sold and promoted as a weight loss product. 

Usnic Acid (sodium usniate) was a substance promoted by the late bodybuilding guru Dan Duchaine, and it was originally thought to inhibit tumor growth, as well as inhibiting the growth of other deadly diseases. Currently, United States law allows for the sale of usnic acid as a "dietary supplement" because it is found naturally in tree moss. 

The only problem is that it is very unsafe. In fact, like DNP, the dose required to burn optimal fat is the dose that will kill you! This is one product that you want to steer clear of. Buyers beware. 

SOURCE: Vet Hum Toxicol 28:574-575, 1986.


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## Tha Don (Jan 30, 2005)

Am J Gastroenterol. 2004 May;99(5):950-2.

Fulminant liver failure due to usnic acid for weight loss.

Durazo FA, Lassman C, Han SH, Saab S, Lee NP, Kawano M, Saggi B, Gordon S,
Farmer DG, Yersiz H, Goldstein RL, Ghobrial M, Busuttil RW.

Division of Digestive Diseases, Department of Medicin,; Dumont-UCLA Liver
Transplant Center, University of California, Los Angeles, California
90095-9302, USA.

The use of complementary and alternative medicine (CAM) in developed
countries has increased significantly over the years. Among the most popular
are the weight loss supplements or "fat burners." Liver failure due to these
popular remedies has been widely recognized. Usnic acid has been an
ingredient of dietary supplements that cause liver failure. Its
hepatotoxicity has not been recognized because it is usually mixed with
other ingredients that are presumably hepatotoxic. We describe a case of a
28-yr-old woman who presented with fulminant liver failure requiring
orthotopic liver transplantation, after taking pure usnic acid for weight
loss. This is the first report on fulminant liver failure associated with
the ingestion of pure usnic acid. A discussion about hepatotoxicity of the
different compounds of dietary supplements is presented. This is a reminder
for the clinicians about the potential side effects of CAM.

Publication Types:
Case Reports

PMID: 15128366 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## M.J.H. (Jan 30, 2005)

Oddly enough I have taken sodium usinate, no more than 500-600mg at the most---and always liked the results. The only negative sides that I notice are lethargy, and foggy-mindedness.


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## LAM (Jan 30, 2005)

I had great results with UA on a unclean diet, although I'm not sure what the difference is between UA and sodium usinate.  I'm getting ready to run a DNP cycle in about 5 weeks.

I know with UA the main health risk is liver failure due to a complete shutdown of oxidative phosphorylation but a safe dosage elimintates that threat.  And with DNP dehydration is the number cause of death.

I remember reading the text of that article about that 28 year old girl whose liver failed due to UA.  Of course they forget to site in the text that she was taking 3x the recommended dose of the fat burner that contained UA, go figure why her liver failed.


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## Tha Don (Jan 30, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> I had great results with UA on a unclean diet, although I'm not sure what the difference is between UA and sodium usinate.  I'm getting ready to run a DNP cycle in about 5 weeks.
> 
> I know with UA the main health risk is liver failure due to a complete shutdown of oxidative phosphorylation but a safe dosage elimintates that threat.  And with DNP dehydration is the number cause of death.
> 
> I remember reading the text of that article about that 28 year old girl whose liver failed due to UA.  Of course they forget to site in the text that she was taking 3x the recommended dose of the fat burner that contained UA, go figure why her liver failed.



so LAM your saying UA and DNP can both be used safely and effectively with no long term concequences providing the user uses the products in a sensible mannor?

how dose UA and DNP compare to EC? (the only weight loss tool i've really used, apart from the odd bottle of marketed rubbish), what BF do you hope to get down to from the DNP

good luck with that man! risky business from what i've heard

peace


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## LAM (Jan 30, 2005)

DNP and UA are definetly dangerous substances.  but from what I have read I would have to say that a low dose of DNP is "safer" than a high dose of UA in regards to liver function.

I know that DNP will raise the BMR by 50% while you might see 3% with ECA and 10% with clen.


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## Tha Don (Jan 31, 2005)

LAM said:
			
		

> DNP and UA are definetly dangerous substances.  but from what I have read I would have to say that a low dose of DNP is "safer" than a high dose of UA in regards to liver function.
> 
> I know that DNP will raise the BMR by 50% while you might see 3% with ECA and 10% with clen.



50%!!!!! Sweet Jesus!

if your still alive in a couple of months time LAM i'ma hit that shit too bro!


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## redspy (Jan 31, 2005)

young d said:
			
		

> personally i'd go with clen - safe and effective....


This is a post from Nandi on CEM.  Don't assume that clen is completely safe.



> *Low Dose Clen Induces Cardiac Apoptosis*
> [font=verdana, arial, helvetica]It's been known for some time that clenbuterol at high doses causes cardiac necrosis. This study in animals shows that doses of 1 mcg/kg BW induce apoptosis (programmed cell death) in heart tissue. Humans not uncommonly ingest this much clen. For instance, in a 220 lb (100 kg) bodybuilder this translates to 100 mcg. The CEM store sells clen at a concentration of 200 mcg/ml! Other UG labs sell it at similar concentrations, ranging from 100 to 200 mcg per ml.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Mudge (Jan 31, 2005)

I've done 100-200 in a day, and I'm not a fan of the sides of clen. Its not horrible but it doesn't feel healthy.


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## Cold Iron (Jan 31, 2005)

My cousin did clen.....she is a 24yr old woman, who has no intentions of working out but likes to eat junk food all the time. Costed her a couple hundred and she had to deal with uncomfortable sides ..and for what? 

Everyone always taking the easy way out....


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