# THE END IS NEAR for the beloved PHs!



## gopro (Apr 29, 2004)

In another thread I made a joke about PHs being reclassified illegal right now. I was only kidding at the time, but I was just informed that the end can seriously be ANY DAY NOW. There will be NO 60 day warning like there was with ephedra...the second the FDA deems them illegal, that will be it! When I asked how long we have I was told..."June the latest, but honestly, it could be any day." 

I just thought you guys would like to know. So whether your favorite PH come from VPX or any other company, you might want to think about stocking up, cause the hammer is dropping.


----------



## Twin Peak (Apr 29, 2004)

A few points to consider:

1) The FDA is not "making them illegal" like with ephedra.

2) If/when they become illegal they will be made a class III controlled substance.

3) That doesn't just mean the sale of the drug will be illegal, so with the possession.


----------



## Monolith (Apr 29, 2004)

So whats the real deal, then?  Is there going to be a warning before the ban hits?  How far off is such a ban?


----------



## Arnold (Apr 29, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> In another thread I made a joke about PHs being reclassified illegal right now. I was only kidding at the time, but I was just informed that the end can seriously be ANY DAY NOW. There will be NO 60 day warning like there was with ephedra...the second the FDA deems them illegal, that will be it! When I asked how long we have I was told..."June the latest, but honestly, it could be any day."
> 
> I just thought you guys would like to know. So whether your favorite PH come from VPX or any other company, you might want to think about stocking up, cause the hammer is dropping.



this is a VPX ploy to increase PH sales before the ban! 



(just kidding)


----------



## Arnold (Apr 29, 2004)

Eric, will this include M1T, Methyl-D and anti-e's like 6-OXO as well?


----------



## and1_4ever (Apr 29, 2004)

This is gonna make me sounds ignorant probably, but does this include the 1-ad and 1-test supplements?


----------



## derekisdman (Apr 29, 2004)

Yaaaaaaaayy they're gone   sing with me, na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye!


----------



## Arnold (Apr 29, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by derekisdman *_
> Yaaaaaaaayy they're gone   sing with me, na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye!



so you like it when the government takes away your rights to decide which supplements you can use?


----------



## gopro (Apr 29, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> A few points to consider:
> 
> 1) The FDA is not "making them illegal" like with ephedra.
> ...



Sorry I wasn't exact enough for you TP


----------



## gopro (Apr 29, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> Eric, will this include M1T, Methyl-D and anti-e's like 6-OXO as well?



Everything! For awhile all they knew about was andro (which is now class III), but some real geniuses in the industry tipped them off to all of the "good stuff." Yeah, it looks like all of it will soon be history. (Hope I can get as much of the PHs as I did of clen, LOL).


----------



## PreMier (Apr 29, 2004)

Damn.  Fuck.  Damn.  

Now I have to decide..


----------



## topolo (Apr 29, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by and1_4ever *_
> This is gonna make me sounds ignorant probably, but does this include the 1-ad and 1-test supplements?




you're right!!!!!!!!!!!!! you do sound ignorant


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (Apr 29, 2004)

the government is a bunch of jackasses. I think the people that regulate the sports industry in this country have a lot to do with this. They are probably responsible for feeding the government all the hype that sups and steroids kill people and are not healthy. My thought is if they do not want it in the major league sports then test for it, but don't ruin it for the rest of use that could give a shit about baseball.


----------



## topolo (Apr 29, 2004)

I feel like I have just taken one really hard in the backdoor!


----------



## PreMier (Apr 29, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by topolo *_
> I feel like I have just taken one really hard in the backdoor!



...  

Your supposed to save that for Pamela


----------



## topolo (Apr 29, 2004)

lol


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (Apr 29, 2004)

just hard, or big and hard in the backdoor?


----------



## topolo (Apr 29, 2004)

both


----------



## plouffe (Apr 29, 2004)

Damn, well. Stock up, that's what I plan on doing -- And selling the shit because once they're ( PH/PS )  " Illegal Substances " the price will go wayyy up.  Chick Ching!


----------



## PreMier (Apr 29, 2004)

Great idea! $_$ Bling bling!


----------



## OmarJackson (Apr 29, 2004)

I don't get it, doesn't the supplement industry have lobbyists? This is fucked up man, that we're letting this happen.


----------



## PreMier (Apr 29, 2004)

The supplement industry didnt band together like they should have.  They had their own interests in mind.  

Nice sig


----------



## JerseyDevil (Apr 30, 2004)

With this move, I hope the government realizes they will have increased the number of steroid users in the US to an all time high.  I'm betting anywhere from 30%-50% of legal 'prohormone' users who got a taste of what using anabolic androgens was like, will start purchasing black market steroids.


----------



## gopro (Apr 30, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by OmarJackson *_
> I don't get it, doesn't the supplement industry have lobbyists? This is fucked up man, that we're letting this happen.



There is still a fight going on but I think it may be too far gone. The government needs the pharmaceutical industry, and the supplement industry takes away from this and their $. So, its screw the supplement industry, cause these fat bastards don't care about muscle, only their campaign contributions!


----------



## Pepper (Apr 30, 2004)

One thing that I am not clear on...will 1-ad et al be illegal to possess after the ban?


----------



## ZECH (Apr 30, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Pepper *_
> One thing that I am not clear on...will 1-ad et al be illegal to possess after the ban?


yes


----------



## Larva (Apr 30, 2004)

so 6oxo and the likes will also be banned?

is it bc its a androstenetrione?


----------



## gopro (Apr 30, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Larva *_
> so 6oxo and the likes will also be banned?
> 
> is it bc its a androstenetrione?



Yes, it will be gone!

Here is an email I got this morning from the VPX CEO:

ANDRO BAN may be just days away!

No hype, Congress has already voted unanimously to to ban all prohormones and prosteroids and reclassify these compounds as Schedule III Anabolic Steroids.The bill has been to the Senate for approval.  VPX sources tell us that this bill will rapidly pass through the Senate, as the President is anxious to see this bill become Law!

For those thinking time still remains, don't be fooled!  As many of us already know, Androstenedione has already been outlawed and is considered a banned/controlled substance.  Point being, the Federal Government gave ZERO "grace period" before banning this compound.  It was simply pulled from the market!  The same thing will happen for all remaining prohormones & prosteroids.  The Andro bill will pass, become law and that will be the end to these compounds...forever!!!


----------



## Arnold (Apr 30, 2004)

unclear on one thing.... 6-OXO falls into the same category as the rest of PH's?


----------



## gopro (Apr 30, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> unclear on one thing.... 6-OXO falls into the same category as the rest of PH's?



I am 99% sure that the gov't is including it.


----------



## BigTex (Apr 30, 2004)

Yes what you guys are saying is true. I just left Fitness Essential a place where I get my suppliments and he told me that one of his vendors told him that ergo has stop making the 1-AD already.

I don't know how true it is, but that's what he told me.


----------



## topolo (Apr 30, 2004)

It usually takes a while for a bill to be signed by the PRes after congress passes it. I think the more immediate danger here is the FDA banning it. Like they did with the andro it was quick and decisive!!

Either way we have a few months at best.


----------



## BigTex (Apr 30, 2004)

With this being an election year I'm sure he (the Pres) wants to make an example out of someone and it looks like the victim is PH.


----------



## brodus (Apr 30, 2004)

I disagree--there is this very crucial event going on in the middle east right now, and that has front-page coverage of every newspaper.  I think the PH thing will be tabled until after election.  

I say this b/c if the Pres. spent time dealing with this (PH issues) right now, he would open up a huge point of attack for Dems and Kerry, who are already tryign to point out that not enough planning, time, etc. was spent on the war effort.

I am just a shade over optimistic about this right now.  I was saying four months tops last month.  Now I feel we probably have until the end of the year.  I also think supp. companies feel this way-->look at the new products coming out.  Also, what retailer/small label is really going to buy kilos of stuff like 1Test or M1,4ADD from China and have them capped if they truly believe the gig is up in June.

The FDA has made their move on Ephedra and Andro.  I think they just might have their hands full with this and the myriad other issues they deal with on a daily basis.  I also don't know of anytime in the past where they dropped a sweeping "ban" on the multiple substances we're discussing all at once.  The logisitcs call for a bill, and that is what Biden is doing.

Then again, I dropped half a grand last month, so my stock is almost complete!


----------



## gopro (Apr 30, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by brodus *_
> I disagree--there is this very crucial event going on in the middle east right now, and that has front-page coverage of every newspaper.  I think the PH thing will be tabled until after election.
> 
> I say this b/c if the Pres. spent time dealing with this (PH issues) right now, he would open up a huge point of attack for Dems and Kerry, who are already tryign to point out that not enough planning, time, etc. was spent on the war effort.
> ...



Sorry, I wish you were right, but I'm pretty sure you are wrong. We just had raw materials DESTROYED! Not sent back, not confiscated...destroyed. Vitamin Shoppe ordered a huge amount of Monster Test from us just last week, and now cancelled it b/c of how close the ban is. I think this thing is right on top of us!


----------



## Twin Peak (Apr 30, 2004)

I am pretty sure 6-oxo is not included.


----------



## ZECH (Apr 30, 2004)

Pat said it was not included....


----------



## gopro (Apr 30, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I am pretty sure 6-oxo is not included.



Really? Well, thats good. However, someone will probably tip them off to this too and they will add it.


----------



## david (Apr 30, 2004)

That's too bad about proh's etc. 

What is  everyone going to use now? 

The real stuff or nothing??


----------



## Arnold (Apr 30, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by david *_
> What is  everyone going to use now?
> 
> The real stuff or nothing??



guess so, but everyone can start stocking up and if you vacumm seal them they will be good for around 3-4 years.


----------



## brodus (Apr 30, 2004)

> We just had raw materials DESTROYED!



Who destroyed it?  And under what authority? 

I don't quite understand...I mean, I do understand that VPX is a high-profile company that does everything it can to attract attention to itself for selling "legal steroids,":



> designer prosteroids





> may induce quality lean mass far more efficiently than most real gear.





> the only "orally active" prosteroid.



So this alone may have been why you were targeted, but at what point was it found, confiscated, and destroyed?  And when you say "raws," I assume you mean kilos of raw powder products like 1-test, etc.  I'm just trying to understand this situation, because you're the only person to have made such claims, and it seems beyond the logistical scope of U.S. Customs to be able to stop a few kilos of anything coming in.  They search less than 1%  of shipments, and they're looking for real drugs and bombs, etc., almost exclusively.


----------



## Arnold (Apr 30, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by brodus *_
> Who destroyed it?  And under what authority?



you ask this as though our government is not corrupt!


----------



## gopro (Apr 30, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by brodus *_
> Who destroyed it?  And under what authority?
> 
> I don't quite understand...I mean, I do understand that VPX is a high-profile company that does everything it can to attract attention to itself for selling "legal steroids,":
> ...



Well, despite the fact that you took this opportunity to knock VPX once again (what else is new) I will respond to your questions. All I know is that the raws (a very large amount) was held up in customs for about a month. We were trying to get it out but could not. I THINK that they were going to send it back but the manufacturer refused it for some reason. Then it was "destroyed." This is what I was told by VPX CEO and why we will not be producing a M-dien product like was planned.


----------



## brodus (Apr 30, 2004)

I ask it as an inquiring mind who is a skeptic...I find it peculiar that there has only been one report of this kind of action, and only from one source.  

I agree, there is corruption in our government, just as every institution run by human beings, but come one, it's not like an episode of NYPD Blue where the cop on the edge is going to settle the score with an old roid dealer by destroying his shipment.  We're talking about chemicals that virtually every cop or Customs agent has never heard of, and that are presently legal.  These guys are just like you and I--and very few go out of their way to work harder than they have to.  I just am trying to understand where this kind of directive comes from, who pulls the trigger.

All I am saying is even if something was destroyed, I just feel there is more to the story.  If this was a common practice, we would have heard about, if not here, on other boars. Unless you hear both sides, and do an honest investigation, your left believing the story of a paid sponsor, and in my book of logical analysis, that's not worth much. 

But of course, I already stocked up, so I guess that shows you how certain I am that it is coming this year


----------



## Arnold (Apr 30, 2004)

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/news/2004/hhs_031104.html


----------



## brodus (Apr 30, 2004)

Thanks for that link, Prince.  From that:



> The FDA has also increased enforcement actions against fraudulently marketed dietary supplements.



From the VPX website:



> Drug-Like Effectiveness... Guaranteed!





> Methoxygen???
> Nitrogenic Antiglucocorticoid - Guaranteed More Potent Than Deca!



The FDA could act on this alone.


----------



## Arnold (Apr 30, 2004)

There is ONE thing that I would like to see the FDA do that it is says it will, which is make a supplement company prove their claims before sticking them on their ads! 

that would be a good thing. 

there is so much false and exaggerated crap put into the advertising and marketing of supplements these days it makes me ill when I pick up a maazine and read some of the ads.

MuscleTech is one of the worst offenders in the industry.


----------



## brodus (Apr 30, 2004)

Bro, I agree so much it's not funny.  The FDA is so under-staffed and overwhelmed, it's a joke.   

I've heard that by the time they can send a letter out to a company for false advertising, the company has already made their money, and people are popping their products.  They're so behind the game.  Anything they do looks stupid b/c of this.  

I firmly believe I, as an intelligent consumer, can make my own decisions of what to take/not take.  But it would sure help if the government agency that claims to protect consumers from fraud would do so.  Not to beat a dead horse, but you can still buy Usnic Acid, while Ephedra, which you can grow in your backyard, is banned.  

I'm a fan of limited government, but when you have flagrant abuse of advertising and unchecked greed, you need regulations.

You or I would never sell bunk product in a fancy package, b/c we enjoy working hard for what we get out of life, but not everyone is like this, sadly... 

I also think the pharmaceutical industry plays a big role in all of this.  They don't even want us to buy things like cancer treatment from Canada b/c they're so damn greedy...shows you where their heart is.

It doesn't have to be this way.  Notice that a lot of 1fast400 products that we KNOW work have no claims at all on them.  There's quite a few companies who are quite understated and do it the right way.  Contrasts this to the other end of the spectrum "lose 30 pounds in 30 days on Carntine and Green Tea"

And MuscleTech....what sickens me is they'll still be able to sell their overpriced, overmarketed garbage after the ban, and I won't be able to get bulk Methyl 1,4ADD.  $20 says they'll incorporate this into their marketing somehow.

Speaking of false advertising, have you read the feedback on Adnergy?  Not so good, actually straight up bad.  I didn't think Optimum would tread down this path.

http://www.1fast400.com/product_reviews.php?products_id=977


----------



## Arnold (Apr 30, 2004)

yes, I was ready to try Adenergy, then I decided to wait and see what others were saying, it's not looking good.

not too sure why ON would want to tarnish their rep like that.


----------



## derekisdman (Apr 30, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> so you like it when the government takes away your rights to decide which supplements you can use?



Hmm nah, I just wanted to sing the song.


----------



## billyzane1 (Apr 30, 2004)

Once they are banned I would quit posting about them and flush em. Not that the feds are gonna come knocking at your door but I would not place any big orders (or any for that matter) right now. I certainly would not think about selling them or anything. If I had any, I would flush em.


----------



## gopro (Apr 30, 2004)

Oh please. The gov't would be banning PHs no matter what any supplement company claims. There is one reason PH, ephedra, and soon many other supplements (perhaps even down to vitamins) have been banned! The gov't wants the cash out of the hands of the supplement companies and in the hands of the pharmaceutical companies. The FDA is not worried about guarding our health, they want to destroy it so that more drugs can be sold, more medical equipment can be used, and more surgeries done. They want us fat and diseased cause its good for business.


----------



## Arnold (Apr 30, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> There is one reason PH, ephedra, and soon many other supplements (perhaps even down to vitamins) have been banned! The gov't wants the cash out of the hands of the supplement companies and in the hands of the pharmaceutical companies. The FDA is not worried about guarding our health, they want to destroy it so that more drugs can be sold, more medical equipment can be used, and more surgeries done. They want us fat and diseased cause its good for business.



 

I agree with that!

Anyone that thinks the FDA cares about our health is an ignorant, brainwashed fool!


----------



## Arnold (Apr 30, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by billyzane1 *_
> Once they are banned I would quit posting about them and flush em. Not that the feds are gonna come knocking at your door but I would not place any big orders (or any for that matter) right now. I certainly would not think about selling them or anything. If I had any, I would flush em.



that is comical.


----------



## brodus (Apr 30, 2004)

No, don't flush them...too dangerous.  I'll dispose of them for you!


----------



## brodus (Apr 30, 2004)

> they want to destroy it so that more drugs can be sold, more medical equipment can be used, and more surgeries done. They want us fat and diseased cause its good for business.



Okay, dude, FDA might not be the proactive health protector you or I would like, but this statement is paranoid bullshit.  I dare you to say this in any public forum, i.e. with real people, not internet junkies or conspiracy theorists, and see how far it gets you.  Please, man. This is garbage.  

I don't particularly love the FDA, but to think they "want us fat and diseased" is horseshit.  Sort of like the superiority of the liposomal delivery of M1T that you ass rape newbies for and then claim is safer on the liver.  We know your not much for real science--you've proven that, but I didn't know you were a conspiracy theorist, too?

For your boneheaded information, THEY are part of US, the part of US that realized to beat the system means you might have to actually get INVOVLED, but the way you talk, you must think all of those people who work 9 to 5s for FDA are "in on the take," as if they too wouldn't suffer in a world run by the pharmaceutical companies they police and distrust. 

 Have you ever spent a few hours with a representative, gone to D.C., sat in a congressional hearing, interviewed influential government players, taken any collegiate-courses in modern political theory or philosophy of law?  

You certainly don't talk like someone who has.

You sound like a fifteen-year-old in a trench coat with zits living in their parnets basement watching re-runs of the X-Files and jacking off to MuscleMag who still hasn't figured out that the only way to get your way in a democracy is to capture the minds of the majority...and you don't do it by implying that the thousands of full-time government workers are all in cahoots to fuck VPX and the rest of the country...au contrair, you represent a company that is certainly, blatantly trying to fuck consumers...I see the truth, and that pisses you off, as it should, because its a sad irony when the reflection you get from a polished mirror doesn't match up to the mental self-fantasy you project.

Do you honestly think you could affect any serious change with your attitude?

YOU are exactly the reason that this shit goes down.  You are part of a greed-centered industry, and you think everyone thinks like you.  You are the one that's brainwashed.   You act like you're a spokesperson, but you don't shit about the biochemical science conversion pathways, HTPA supression from 4-Hydroxytest, enzymatic conversions, the difference between absorption and bioavailabilty, etc. ad inifinitum.

You, and many other VPX reps, have had your asses handed to you so many, many times by knowledgable bros on anabolicminds, bb.com, and other sites that I almost hesitated to write a repsonse, since, unlike smart people, you don't know when to shut the fuck up and appologize for selling $100 bottles of piss (oops, I mean METHOXYGEN) and calling it "better than DECA" you corporate whore.

Hey Eric, look out for the black vans--I heard Senator Biden and friends got wind of Gangsta Test's potency, sent a lackey here, and read your posts...then the FDA and big pharma reps saw your picture and saw your muslces as a threat to their global plan....their onto you man....the gig is up....they KNOW!  DROP THE CHRONIC AND CALL SCULLY AND MOULDER!!


----------



## Arnold (Apr 30, 2004)

*brodus* one question for you: 

If the FDA truley cares about the general public's health, please tell me why alcohol and tobacco are still legal?


----------



## tomas101 (Apr 30, 2004)

b/c they use them


----------



## brodus (Apr 30, 2004)

I think you're confusing things. 

You're thinking about the ATF, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. 

FDA is the Food and Drug Administration.  They have no jurisdication over booze and tobacco.  They deal with Food and Drugs, and food additives (supplements).  BUT they constantly produce messages about how bad drinking and smoking is for you.  I've made helath curriculum under their funding, I know this.  

Who do you think works there, nazis?  Their mostly staffed by underpaid college graduates, many with advanced degrees, who wanted to work for the government.  I have interviewed people on the hill, sat through sessions of congress, and more, and while I totally KNOW change needs to happen, I just think the average person has NO CLUE what that means, how it happens, and who champions it.  It's not like on the movies or T.V.  

Rob, you should be very pissed off that the people who sold you all of the supps you've taken pver the years also sold your freedom up the river, b/c it's honestly the only industry at this level of income (multi-billions) that can't standardize, get together, and bring a voice to congress, and that speaks volumes about how much they care to old senators and people who operate on the "Actions Speak Louder Than Words" maxim, people who have seen a lot of shit go down, firsthand.  

I get pissed off b/c corporate shills like no-name needed above make fabricated claims to stir up a reaction in people who don't know any better, and then cry foul when you hand them their ass.

I'm tired of this debate.  There really is no debate.  The people who could have sent expert witnesses to Capitol hill, self-regulated to prevent sale to minors, funded research, etc., were too busy counting greenbacks and dreaming up exit strategies and legal protections to help us.  

And now their lackeys still won't own up, and pass the buck yet again.  It's sickening.


----------



## Arnold (Apr 30, 2004)

Okay, let me rephrase it...

if the "government" gives two shits about our health why is alcohol and tobacco still legal?


----------



## brodus (Apr 30, 2004)

I thought your position was that we, the consumer, should be able to decide for ourselves what we ingest?  By that thread, why would you care if alcohol is legal?  

You essentially want steroids legal, as you have said yourself many times that M1T is a steroid, just a legal one for the time being. 

I already know your response, that it should be one way or the other, and that allowing and taxing harmful substances and then banning ephedra, etc., is hypocritical, and I agree, but that doesn't automatically lead to a sweeping generalization that the gov't doesn't care about health. 

The government agencies, operating on smaller budgets that big pharma, consistently pump out anti-smoking and drinking messages, fund myriad social programs, pass local ordinances that ban smoking in public places, etc.  There are a hell of a lot more smokers and drinkers than PH users, so you should understand how they feel.  They feel the govt is TOO health conscious, that it should get off their back, etc.  

I just will never believe that people who go into public service for life, and deal with what they do, are part of a grand conspiracy to damage the people they represent.

Big Pharma, yes, I hate and distrust and KNOW has agendas...but the government polices Big Pharma b/c they know this too.  

Your only ally in a fight against corporatocracy is the government, so if you can't learn to work within the system, your screwed.  That's just life.  Is it fair? I don't know, but I know most people think we are crazy for doing what we do and what we take.  There may have been a way to convince them otherwise, but the people who could have done it, didn't, and don't seem to care. 

You want to know the honest to God truth, man--This is a really tough pill to swallow--even for me, as I want to take  whatever PH I want, etc.--but there simply are not that many Americans who agree with us, period.  I don't know if I have ever seen a bill get unanimous approval so quickly.  Do I think it sucks, yes.  On the otherhand, in a democracy, majority rules.  Thats kind of where the ball stops.


----------



## topolo (May 1, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Pat said it was not included....




who is Pat?


----------



## HoldDaMayo (May 1, 2004)

I think it's unfortunate that PH's are getting banned... but I hardly think this ban will do anything but good.
(except for the people who lose their jobs due to companies shutting down or down sizing)

1.  Marijuana is illegal and is VERY easy to get, enjoy, and maintain a normal lifestyle while using... 

2.  Science is greedy... Science only works when there is TONS of money to be made, som might say Science is expensive, not greedy... whatever... anyway... point being... there will be a focus on non steroid based products that might be even more effective than PH's... 

3.  How many 16 year old kids who wanna get "ripped" won't be able to hurt themselves with their ignorance after the ban?  I'm not saying a 16 year old won't be able to get PH's... but it will be a hell of a lot more difficult to come by... 

4.  Steroid users still get steroids... There will still be ways to get PH's... the world is a big place and as mentioned above, only 1% of packages get inspected.  No doubt people will be ordering PH's internationally days after the ban... 

5.  While companies that rely on ads in magazines will most likely be out of the PH business, companies that put out a product in the black market will need to work because essentially hype will be almost non existent... no one in the industry will be able to bullshit their product into popularity... I realize this point is somewhat idealistic, but it's just my opinion...

To put it simply, I just don't see how making PH's illegal will have any negative aspects...


----------



## Arnold (May 1, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by HoldDaMayo *_
> 4.  Steroid users still get steroids... There will still be ways to get PH's... the world is a big place and as mentioned above, only 1% of packages get inspected.  No doubt people will be ordering PH's internationally days after the ban...



Seeing that they are going to classify PH's the same as anabolic steroids, who in their right mind would risk ordering PH's? If you're going to take the risk you might as well go for the real thing.


----------



## I'm Trying (May 1, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> Seeing that they are going to classify PH's the same as anabolic steroids, who in their right mind would risk ordering PH's? If you're going to take the risk you might as well go for the real thing.



exactly.


----------



## HoldDaMayo (May 1, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> Seeing that they are going to classify PH's the same as anabolic steroids, who in their right mind would risk ordering PH's? If you're going to take the risk you might as well go for the real thing.



M1T is the real thing is it not?

Are you saying the ban will cause more people to use full on steroids?


----------



## Arnold (May 1, 2004)

Yes, but I only use M1T because it's the best legal "supplement" I can use. (and I assume others would say the same)

Once M1T is a class III drug I would rather use injectable testosterone or something much more powerful and easier on the liver. 

Yes, I do think that the ban will cause more steroid use, no doubt.

Once again our government is just making things worse...bunch of geniuses we have in office.


----------



## Arnold (May 1, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by brodus *_
> I already know your response, that it should be one way or the other, and that allowing and taxing harmful substances and then banning ephedra, etc., is hypocritical, and I agree, but that doesn't automatically lead to a sweeping generalization that the gov't doesn't care about health.



hmmm...then what does it say?

seems to me their agenda is money, not our health.

why are they banning PH's? I know that you know it has absolutely nothing to do with our health, nor did the steroid control act.

Eric (gopro) was right on with what he said previously about our government and their motives.


----------



## HoldDaMayo (May 1, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> Yes, but I only use M1T because it's the best legal "supplement" I can use. (and I assume others would say the same)
> 
> Once M1T is a class III drug I would rather use injectable testosterone or something much more powerful and easier on the liver.



So what you're saying, is the hardcore people that need steroids/PH's will now use steroids that are more effective and easier on their body?  

I'm failing to see the negatives here... sounds like the PH ban will help you get better results and be easier on your liver... 

as far as using legal supplements... and others saying the same... I'm of the opinion that the VAST majority of people buying supplements won't touch illegal substances, meaning most people won't be doing Steroids instead... 

I'm still really not seeing the negatives of this ban...


----------



## Arnold (May 1, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by HoldDaMayo *_
> So what you're saying, is the hardcore people that need steroids/PH's will now use steroids that are more effective and easier on their body?



The one's that are willing to take the risk, yeah. It's a felony to posess any amount of a Class III drug.

You cannot see the negatives? The government is taking away more of our rights, need I say more?


----------



## brodus (May 1, 2004)

> Eric (gopro) was right on with what he said previously about our government and their motives.



Well, once again you've changed the wording to suit your arguement, because the whole thread was about the FDA until I pointed out the jurisdictional divide, and then you had to rephrase.  Eric never mentioned the gov't, he mentioned the FDA, and the two are not synonymous.  

So you go to bed at night thinking that the 530+ representatives in the House and 100 senators are just wringing their hands, dreaming up ways to destroy the health of the country?  Do you tell your clients that?  I mean, you've already shown you clearly have no comprehension of the American political process, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but I didn't think you were a conspiracy theorist, too.   That's kind of sad.  I didn't realize so many people slept through American History class and got their information from T.V. and Musclemags.

But that's cool, if you choose to trust a delusion person who doesn't know freshman year Organic Chem. who represents a company that sells a couple grams of methoxy for $100 and says it's better than DECA, over a person who has actually interacted with the goverment and federal agencies on a first-hand basis and has no ulterior motives, that's your choice.  

I would love for you to try your arguments in a public, i.e. not computer forum and see how far you get.  Oh right...but it's not your fault, you have no control over your future, no one does...it's all the invisible MAN....


Oh, and as HoldDaMayo clearly pointed out, the only people the ban is effecting is the few who want to to a steroid but are too afraid to mail order in the future...it's like, people who would rather buy "Wizard Smoke" and "Stashish" online than pick up a dime bag on the corner.  And that (marijuana) a Schedule I drug.  A schedule III drug has legit. purposes, so a smart person can find a way to have legit reasons for possession.  Can't do that with most other drugs.  Make a choice--if you're hardcore, you take hardcore chances, in my book.  Hardcore people are going to keep juicing no matter what, and now maybe won't be dropping $100 on a bottle of M1T from VPX hoes.

We don't live in an oppressive dictatorship, Robert.  You talk like we're living in Nazi Germany, and that betrays the depth of your ignorance.  I'm through posting about this...you obviously prefer living in your delusions because they give you comfort.  You don't know language, you don't know the government, you don't know political history, and you don't know what a logical argument is, so it's pointless trying to have a discussion with you.


----------



## Arnold (May 1, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by brodus *_
> So you go to bed at night thinking that the 530+ representatives in the House and 100 senators are just wringing their hands, dreaming up ways to destroy the health of the country?


no, I think the elitist pigs dream about how they can get fatter bank accounts, how they do it is irrelevant to them.





> We don't live in an oppressive dictatorship, Robert.  You talk like we're living in Nazi Germany...


not yet anyway....


you speak like a politician brodus, dancing around the questions and ultimately avoiding them.

you have displayed two things here: one you can write well and eloquently, and two you know a few facts about the American government, big deal, sorry I am unimpressed.


----------



## topolo (May 2, 2004)

there are only 435 reps. in the house.............and who is Pat?


----------



## tucker01 (May 2, 2004)

I would assume Pat Arnold (Ergopharm)


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (May 2, 2004)

PH's are good, but everyone knows real steroids are better. I think M1T and MethylD are the closest out there to being real gear, but still not like injecting test when it comes to results. I just went to a natural bodybuilding show yesterday, and it was enough for me to decide I don't want to remain a natural bodybuilder. The level of conditioning and muscle is a joke in natural shows after seeing a national level show. I can't wait till the Jr. Nationals happen this June. I got center 5th row tickets. Anyways I'm getting off subject. The governments ban is just going to make getting legit products harder for PH users. Besides if the risk of obtaining PH and steroids is the same its no doubt that people will go with real gear. Isn't that the opposite effect the government is trying to achieve


----------



## tomas101 (May 2, 2004)

truthfully once they are banned, the pple will just use illegal steroids....its obvious....the only thing keeping pple from steroids is that we have a legal product that gives us some of what steroids give us and once illgal, they will just buy the real gear....so the drug and crime rate will rise


----------



## ZECH (May 2, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by IainDaniel *_
> I would assume Pat Arnold (Ergopharm)


Yes


----------



## kvyd (May 2, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by brodus *_
> I think you're confusing things.
> 
> 
> ...





hmmm...arnt "booze and tobacco" drugs... so why doesnt the FDA have control over them?


----------



## gopro (May 2, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by brodus *_
> Okay, dude, FDA might not be the proactive health protector you or I would like, but this statement is paranoid bullshit.  I dare you to say this in any public forum, i.e. with real people, not internet junkies or conspiracy theorists, and see how far it gets you.  Please, man. This is garbage.
> 
> I don't particularly love the FDA, but to think they "want us fat and diseased" is horseshit.  Sort of like the superiority of the liposomal delivery of M1T that you ass rape newbies for and then claim is safer on the liver.  We know your not much for real science--you've proven that, but I didn't know you were a conspiracy theorist, too?
> ...



Brodus...I have forgotten more about diet, training, drugs, and everything else that has to do with physical transformation than you ever will know. You know nothing about me so keep your mouth shut. You want me to say what I do in person...come to any of the shows I attend with VPX and I'll say it right to your face.  And don't insult the X-Files...that was a great show.


----------



## BUSTINOUT (May 2, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by tomas101 *_
> truthfully once they are banned, the pple will just use illegal steroids....its obvious....the only thing keeping pple from steroids is that we have a legal product that gives us some of what steroids give us and once illgal, they will just buy the real gear....so the drug and crime rate will rise



Explain to me why the crime rate will rise.


----------



## BUSTINOUT (May 2, 2004)

Banning PHs will only add one more thing to the list of things that cops do that is illegal. lol


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (May 3, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by BUSTINOUT *_
> Explain to me why the crime rate will rise.



Anytime you have a drug that is illegal that people want there is crime. In order to get the drug someone wants it has to go through dealers and people that traffic the drugs. There is a lot of drug related violence out there. The government banning anything is a lose lose situation for them IMO. Lose#1 The amount of money the government spends every year trying to catch drugs entering this country is crazy! We are talking like 90 BILLION dollars. Lose#2 Anything that we have to go through a dealer for is obviously not taxed. If the government needs to just realize that people are going to find a way to do whatever drug they want whether its legal or not. Instead of spending money to fight it they could save the 90 billion and tax everything people use. They would make a fortune. They do it with smokes and alcohol. I don't think this would increase the # of drug users out there because like I said before if someone has plans to do a drug they will find a way to do it. By making drugs legal not only will the government make a ton of money in taxes but they could regulate the drugs to ensure the quality making it safer for the end user


----------



## ZECH (May 3, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by BUSTINOUT *_
> Banning PHs will only add one more thing to the list of things that cops do that is illegal. lol


Watch it Mister!


----------



## Twin Peak (May 3, 2004)

For what its worth, FDA doesn't police supplement claims and advertising, that is the FTC's job.


----------



## gopro (May 3, 2004)

FDA, FTC, DEA, FBI, CIA, FUB...whoever it is that is responsible for taking away our right to use ephedra, prohormones, and probably soon to be a whole lot more, SUCK SH%T!!!!!!!!!!!! Plain and simple. Its not being done for our own good, a concern for our health, or any other bullsh%t reason they may be claiming. It about money and greed and nothing else.

By the way, if you're not sure....the FUB is a brand new government agency called FU%K YOU BODYBUILDERS!


----------



## BUSTINOUT (May 3, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Watch it Mister!



LOL.  I was waitin for your reply.


----------



## BUSTINOUT (May 3, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by TrojanMan60563 *_
> Anytime you have a drug that is illegal that people want there is crime. In order to get the drug someone wants it has to go through dealers and people that traffic the drugs. There is a lot of drug related violence out there. The government banning anything is a lose lose situation for them IMO. Lose#1 The amount of money the government spends every year trying to catch drugs entering this country is crazy! We are talking like 90 BILLION dollars. Lose#2 Anything that we have to go through a dealer for is obviously not taxed. If the government needs to just realize that people are going to find a way to do whatever drug they want whether its legal or not. Instead of spending money to fight it they could save the 90 billion and tax everything people use. They would make a fortune. They do it with smokes and alcohol. I don't think this would increase the # of drug users out there because like I said before if someone has plans to do a drug they will find a way to do it. By making drugs legal not only will the government make a ton of money in taxes but they could regulate the drugs to ensure the quality making it safer for the end user



I was thinking more along the lines of violent crime...my mistake.


----------



## tomas101 (May 3, 2004)

lol...well violent crimes could arise..some one could be juiced up and split some guys head open b/c he's agressive..lol..or someone may owe someone money and shoot his ass for not paying him


----------



## Arnold (May 3, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> By the way, if you're not sure....the FUB is a brand new government agency called FU%K YOU BODYBUILDERS!


----------



## Tank316 (May 3, 2004)

or fu brodus

By the way, if you're not sure....the FUB is a brand new government agency called FU%K YOU BODYBUILDERS


man you're on a roll with these quote's as of late, this one's just as good as growth sickness!!!!!!!


----------



## gopro (May 4, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_



Prince I KNEW you were going to like that one!


----------



## gopro (May 4, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Tank316 *_
> or fu brodus
> 
> By the way, if you're not sure....the FUB is a brand new government agency called FU%K YOU BODYBUILDERS
> ...



I'm a quote-makin machine!


----------



## Arnold (May 4, 2004)

*Not sure about the accuracy of this info, but I thought it was interesting:*

Hi Fellas...from good ole D.C. re: h.r. 3866
looking at june to hit the house floor; itf it passes the house then could be looking
at august for it pass the senate so then the ban would take full effect around the end of 
the year. However, partial effect would kick in sooner so that OTC sales might cease 
something like September. If the right people get upset then it will not pass so quickly, 
and it could stall quite a while. Unfortunately, they timed it to hit in an Olympics summer, 
when save-the-children photo-ops will be available to the congresspeople involved.

Also, the ban is legally ambiguous and redefines anabolic steroids to be steroids that
are not necessarily even anabolic steroids, so if the right people note this weird 
redefinition, they will squash the bill because they do not like granting the DEA rights
to search and seizure where there is a lot of leeway. Furthermore, states will
replicate this law, and they tend to be way dumber and less advised than congress
(and that is real bad)-- they will mix up things like melatonin, methandienone, and 
methamphetamine, and so in the interest of setting the right example, there may be 
some opposition. That is, provided they receive letters and lobbying. Remember, this 
legislation also hurts research in male hormonal replacement, male birth control, female 
libido research, and AIDS wasting treatment, and also costs the medical system 
(look at price on oxandrin/anavar). It puts those fields back many years. Oh, and,
the congressmen who sponsor this bill are so ridiculous that they EVEN QUOTE
STATISTICS showing that kids are using ALREADY ILLEGAL STEROIDS
at a HIGHER RATE THAN OTC STUFF and they are so RIDICULOUSLY UNQUALIFIED
to address the issue they do not even realize they are ARE EMBARASSING THEMSELVES
and that they could have spent all of FIVE MINUTES to go find statistics in the research
that actually support their position. Also they had an amputee testisty, and with all due
respect to the guy, who is trying to do a good thing, he lost his legs, as he stated, because
he NEGLECTED A DEADLY circulatory condition while using steroids that areALREADY
ILLEGAL, so its IRRELEVANT. ok, so there you go; I don't mind legislation, it should
just be done right, to address the actual underlying issue.

http://forums.bulknutrition.com/?showtopic=626&st=15


----------



## Arnold (May 4, 2004)

*Bill HR HR 3866 states that the folowing substance will be affected:*


(i) androstanediol--

(I) 3b,17b-dihydroxy-5a-androstane; and

(II) 3a,17b-dihydroxy-5a-androstane;

(ii) androstanedione (5a-androstan-3,17-dione);

(iii) androstenediol--

(I) 1-androstenediol (3b,17b-dihydroxy-5a-androst-1-ene);

(II) 1-androstenediol (3a,17b-dihydroxy-5a-androst-1-ene);

(III) 4-androstenediol (3b,17b-dihydroxy-androst-4-ene); and

(IV) 5-androstenediol (3b,17b-dihydroxy-androst-5-ene);

(iv) androstenedione--

(I) 1-androstenedione ([5a]-androst-1-en-3,17-dione);

(II) 4-androstenedione (androst-4-en-3,17-dione); and

(III) 5-androstenedione (androst-5-en-3,17-dione);

(v) bolasterone (7a,17a-dimethyl-17b-hydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one);

(vi) boldenone (17b-hydroxyandrost-1,4,-diene-3-one);

(vii) calusterone (7b,17a-dimethyl-17b-hydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one);

(viii) clostebol (4-chloro-17b-hydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one);

(ix) dehydrochlormethyltestosterone (4-chloro-17b-hydroxy-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-dien-3-one);

(x) 4-dihydrotestosterone (17b-hydroxy-androstan-3-one);

(xi) drostanolone (17b-hydroxy-2a-methyl-5a-androstan-3-one);

(xii) ethylestrenol (17a-ethyl-17b-hydroxyestr-4-ene);

(xiii) fluoxymesterone (9-fluoro-17a-methyl-11b,17b-dihydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one);

(xiv) formebolone (2-formyl-17a-methyl-11a,17b-dihydroxyandrost-1,4-dien-3-one);

(xv) furazabol (17a-methyl-17b-hydroxyandrostano[2,3-c]-furazan);

(xvi) 18a-homo-17b-hydroxyestr-4-en-3-one (13b-ethyl-17b-hydroxygon-4-en-3-one);

(xvii) 4-hydroxytestosterone (4,17b-dihydroxy-androst-4-en-3-one);

(xviii) 4-hydroxy-19-nortestosterone (4,17b-dihydroxy-estr-4-en-3-one);

(xix) mestanolone (17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one);

(xx) mesterolone (1a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-[5a]-androstan-3-one);

(xxi) methandienone (17a-methyl-17b-hydroxyandrost-1,4-dien-3-one);

(xxii) methandriol (17a-methyl-3b,17b-dihydroxyandrost-5-ene);

(xxiii) methenolone (1-methyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androst-1-en-3-one);

(xxiv) methyltestosterone (17a-methyl-17b-hydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one);

(xxv) mibolerone (7a,17a-dimethyl-17b-hydroxyestr-4-en-3-one);

(xxvi) nandrolone (17b-hydroxyestr-4-en-3-one);

(xxvii) norandrostenediol--

(I) 19-nor-4-androstenediol (3b, 17b-dihydroxyestr-4-ene);

(II) 19-nor-4-androstenediol (3a, 17b-dihydroxyestr-4-ene);

(III) 19-nor-5-androstenediol (3b, 17b-dihydroxyestr-5-ene); and

(IV) 19-nor-5-androstenediol (3a, 17b-dihydroxyestr-5-ene);

(xxviii) norandrostenedione--

(I) 19-nor-4-androstenedione (estr-4-en-3,17-dione); and

(II) 19-nor-5-androstenedione (estr-5-en-3,17-dione;

(xxix) norbolethone (18a-homo-17b-hydroxypregna-4-en-3-one);

(xxx) norclostebol (4-chloro-17b-hydroxyestr-4-en-3-one);

(xxxi) norethandrolone (17a-ethyl-17b-hydroxyestr-4-en-3-one);

(xxxii) oxandrolone (17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-2-oxa-[5a]-androstan-3-one);

(xxxiii) oxymesterone (17a-methyl-4,17b-dihydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one);

(xxxiv) oxymetholone (17a-methyl-2-hydroxymethylene-17b-hydroxy-[5a]-androstan-3-one);

(xxxv) stanozolol (17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-[5a]-androst-2-eno[3,2-c]-pyrazole);

(xxxvi) stenbolone (17b-hydroxy-2-methyl-[5a]-androst-1-en-3-one);

(xxxvii) testolactone (13-hydroxy-3-oxo-13,17-secoandrosta-1,4-dien-17-oic acid lactone);

(xxxviii) 1-testosterone (17b-hydroxy-5a-androst-1-en-3-one);

(xxxix) testosterone (17b-hydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one);

(xl) tetrahydrogestrinone (13b,17a-diethyl-17b-hydroxygon-4,9,11-trien-3-one);

(xli) trenbolone (17b-hydroxyestr-4,9,11-trien-3-one);


----------



## Arnold (May 4, 2004)

There are 2 versions of Bill Number H.R.3866 for the 108th Congress

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.3866:


----------



## X Ring (May 4, 2004)

thanks for keeping us updated


----------



## brodus (May 4, 2004)

> looking at june to hit the house floor; itf it passes the house then could be looking
> at august for it pass the senate so then the ban would take full effect around the end of
> the year. However, partial effect would kick in sooner so that OTC sales might cease
> something like September.



Oh, the irony.  This was my claim from the beginning--reference any of the earlier posts on this topic...the one's where I posted the exact same links as Prince just did, but also included the Senate bill (the Biden Bill).  I made this claim at least a month ago (3/31/04), citing political process and procedure: 

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29629

(3/17/04)

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29021

My original post on this thread was to point out that, like Prince's quote, I feel VPX is again engaged in sensationalism...No one else here finds it ironiv that a VPX rep starts every thread?  

Seems Prince used to feel this way too:



> why would anyone start stocking up yet? 04/08/04





> last I remember VPX is not even involved with the www.usfa.biz who fights for this thing. 03/17/04




But when I post this, I'm being a jerk...very funny....I'm the dumbass that just happened to be a month ahead of you on this...I give up.... Obviously there's a system of favorites here that trumps knowledge and insight.




> But I don't think there is going to be a drought on the supply before the ban goes into effect due to some invisible border patrol that stops every raw material shipment from China. In fact, I'd bet a lot on that fact. Further, the bill hasn't been finalized...and we don't even know the validty of GoPros claim. A lot has to happen before all PHs are pulled from online retail.



(3/17/04)


----------



## david (May 4, 2004)

Well actually, I think a lot of good points were being made by Gopro, Prince etc. but you keep hounding these issues.  Let it rest, Brodus.  If you feel that it's a lopsided conversation (against IM members against you) then, do as Gopro says, and say all this nonsense to his face at the shows or whereever.  Or, you can take Tank's recent request.  Or, better yet, complain to another Supplement company and see if they give you the time or day.  Bet they won't.  It's funny though, as nice, considerate and open as Gopro is to all IM.com members, he seems to be the target of many anti-VPX people and seems to have to constantly defend himself.  Sheesh.... Don't sell your house Gopro... somehow, VPX haters will bring up prohormones, Test or Redline into the swirl and the shiat will start all over again!


----------



## Tank316 (May 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by david *_
> Well actually, I think a lot of good points were being made by Gopro, Prince etc. but you keep hounding these issues.  Let it rest, Brodus.  If you feel that it's a lopsided conversation (against IM members against you) then, do as Gopro says, and say all this nonsense to his face at the shows or whereever.  Or, you can take Tank's recent request.  Or, better yet, complain to another Supplement company and see if they give you the time or day.  Bet they won't.  It's funny though, as nice, considerate and open as Gopro is to all IM.com members, he seems to be the target of many anti-VPX people and seems to have to constantly defend himself.  Sheesh.... Don't sell your house Gopro... somehow, VPX haters will bring up prohormones, Test or Redline into the swirl and the shiat will start all over again!


amen David. and GP first started this thread just to inform us of an up and coming ban of a supp. but it seems that piss ants crawl from under any rock as of late just to bash a certain person and a company that he works for. i have yet to have the need for a PH, but have learned alot from GP and others on this board about them.


----------



## david (May 5, 2004)

Hey Tank!!

It's funny though... Gopro comes on and offers Clenbuterx promo's... get's blasted.

He then announces Redline... get's interrogted.  Poor guy!  And, what remains constant is that he's a great guy.


----------



## Tank316 (May 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by david *_
> Hey Tank!!
> 
> It's funny though... Gopro comes on and offers Clenbuterx promo's... get's blasted.
> ...


so true, and those who blast him dont know him, and those same people have taught me nothing, Gp on the other hand has given, not taken, a true friend indeed!!!!!!


----------



## gopro (May 5, 2004)

Thank you Tank and David for your ongoing support. Brodus is just a punk like the rest. What all these VPX bashers fail to realize is that I have been a mod on this board and several others for a year or two longer than I have been with VPX. I have been advising people with their diet, training and supplementation all of this time for no other reason but to be helpful and give back to the sport/activity that has given me so much.

Brodus is already crying over at Anabolicminds about me and how he can't stand that people support me and how he doesn't even want to come back here. Hmmmm, what a loss that would be, huh?

This thread was started to inform people of what I knew to be going on. I never said to anyone "you better go get your stash of VPX now before its too late!" No matter what your favorite PH and no matter what company puts it out, I was just letting people know they may not be around much longer.

Besides, we all know that Brodus is home right now with his supply of Monster Test, MAD 250, and Gangsta Test licking his chops! LOL!


----------



## Arnold (May 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Brodus is already crying over at Anabolicminds about me and how he can't stand that people support me and how he doesn't even want to come back here. Hmmmm, what a loss that would be, huh?


----------



## brodus (May 5, 2004)

I've never understood why people side with company reps about anything...as if their salary doesn't justify skepticism and intense scrutiny when posting...I could teach you about viral marketing, but you've already revealed that you only process about three words per paragraph, so it would be a waste.

Such brilliant, researched, and well-thought out answers/reponses to my questions!

I expected more than "punk" or "piss ant," although I give you credit, that was pretty creative on your part.  

I guess I could tear apart each of your arguments, or point out why all of us should be pissed that supp. companies are passing the buck off on the gov't while they did nothing, but what would that do?  You're not interested in doing anything more than bitching about a situation that got out of your control.  I'm the easy target b/c I didn't learn your secret handshake because I was too busy going to school and running in international competitions.

*I post threads, links, quotes...I beat you to the punch by over a month on the specifics of the ban...I watch the Senate hearings and reported them...I've interviewed people involved in this debate....*

If you didn't pay attention and learn anything, that's your problem.

GoPro posts "warnings" like a good corporate lackey, yet his company wasn't involved in supporting our "rights", didn't support USFA, sells liposomal methyls and $100 methoxy...

How quickly you forget these realities and rush to slap a high five becuase maybe if your lucky you can be a recipient of the trickle down effect.  I mean, is a free bottle of Clenbutrx (which costs more than the real thing, which is widely available on the internet) worth ignoring the truth to you?  Apparently it is.

Your own responses to these realities are a mirror for the short-circuits in your synapses.

It's funny...it's a good thing for you that this is a high-five slapping good ol' boy club, b/c in a court of law, you would have lost last month when I posted the same thing!

And while you can say whatever you want about Anabolicminds, how many chemists are on this board? How many people brewing superior transdermals?  I haven't seen a single one.   But I sure see a lot of reps that cry foul when you point out inconsistenies, and you all think that's fine, which says a lot about your character.

This board has a ton of great information, but the minute you question one of the hometown heroes who's essentially selling bunk acid for $35 a hit to nine-year olds, look out...


----------



## TrojanMan60563 (May 5, 2004)

can't we all just get along? hehe I just had to say it..sorry


----------



## Arnold (May 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by brodus *_
> I've never understood why people side with company reps about anything...as if their salary doesn't justify skepticism and intense scrutiny when posting...I could teach you about viral marketing, but you've already revealed that you only process about three words per paragraph, so it would be a waste.
> 
> Such brilliant, researched, and well-thought out answers/reponses to my questions!
> ...



The reason that you will never get any where brodus is you're too busy telling everyone how smart and great you are and how stupid everyone else is. 

Get a clue.

I should go back thru this thread and count how many times you have insulted me and everyone else that has made a post here.


----------



## brodus (May 5, 2004)

I have no problem getting along with people that don't pull blinders over their eyes when you hold up a mirror to their actions.

Believe it or not, I'm not angry with anyone...I'm more frusturated at a larger situation, corporatocracy and the decline of individual thought, and this is a prime example for this.


----------



## Arnold (May 5, 2004)

That is fine, but you will get much further in life, and in simple debates, or whatever, if you refrain from insulting people and telling them they're stupid, etc.

What are your qualifications brodus? What is your formal education, degrees and professional experience that make you so much better than all of us?


----------



## HoldDaMayo (May 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by brodus *_
> I've never understood why people side with company reps about anything...as if their salary doesn't justify skepticism and intense scrutiny when posting...I could teach you about viral marketing, but you've already revealed that you only process about three words per paragraph, so it would be a waste.
> 
> Such brilliant, researched, and well-thought out answers/reponses to my questions!
> ...



You sound very intelligent... and I'm impressed how articulate you are in your posts...

GoPro has been popular on these boards for his complete contribution... he's got a cult following in the training forum... which has nothing to do with VPX... If he was only known here for pushing VPX products, i think you would have more support in your views... 

I think you're a bit too idealistic... every retail store you shop at has sales people... are they impartial and trustworthy or are they just trying to get a few extra bucks commission... yet, the first thing people do is ask the sales person questions about their need and whether the product will satisfy it.  

While I understand your point about sales reps not being impartial... it's the American way... and hardly out of the ordinary for GoPro to have a few good things to say about his products... they are NOT even close to the most popular on these boards though... I rarely see anyone asking about VPX products because they are expensive and people tend to look for value... although it seems VPX does have it's niche and I think it's odd that out of all the companies playing the roll of the crook, you chose VPX and GoPro to make an example of... 

I have seen GP make a few comments that I felt might be stretching a bit... but he's upfront with who he is and what he does... I've seen a bazillion more rediculous claims out there then anything GP has said about VPX products...

I enjoy reading your posts, but everytime you start bringing GP and VPX into this, like they are the ultimate evil, I lose interest in your post... when you do this, you sound like a bitter ex girlfriend... I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm just telling you how I feel when i read this stuff...


----------



## brodus (May 5, 2004)

I never said I thought I was better than anyone on this board, let me clear that up.  I didn't go back and add up insults on a tally sheet, but to be honest, Prince, I was insulted much more than anyone else on here. 

(To wit, my first post on this thread was just my own theory on how much time we have left...then I questioned, legtimately, the "destroyed" premise...then I quesitoned whether or not anyone here actually knew the gov't agencies involved...none of this should be considered out of bounds of civil discussion...I got pissed when you and GoPro played the Nazi America card, b/c my family immigrated from Nazi Germany to escape a true repressive state and I think Americans need a reality check, especially when they don't even know which arm of the gov't they're mad at.)

Fact is, when I have a problem with something I see as unfair or untrue, I don't use "punk" and "stupid," I take it five powers of analysis further, and that pisses people off and makes them think whatever they have conditioned themselves to think when presented with a threat to their view of life.  

I will say there is such a thing as a winner in a race, a first to the finish line, and when someone posts something a month before someone else, it's not a crime to point that out.  I was simply defending my actions.  If you think that by defending myself with logic that I am insinutating I am superior, well, that's you're problem or not mine.  

I'm not going to post my credentials, b/c that will only make this thread go on forever.  I will PM them to you if it really means that much, but like BandaidWoman, I don't feel the need to post this, b/c I don't feel they change who I am as a person.

Look...I've said my piece, you guys got your high-fives in...let's just have good workouts today.  I promised myself I was going to be a good boy and just work, lift, and teach today, but all of that damn GangstaTest...OOPS>>>DID I SAY THAT....


----------



## brodus (May 5, 2004)

> I enjoy reading your posts, but everytime you start bringing GP and VPX into this, like they are the ultimate evil, I lose interest in your post... when you do this, you sound like a bitter ex girlfriend... I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm just telling you how I feel when i read this stuff...



Haha....yeah, I am too idealistic, that's for sure.   And I know GoPro workouts and advice have helped a TON of people, and I don't know why I go for the throat on VPX...oh, yes, I do know why, but I won't post again!  I'm kind of a "new kid" in town, so I didn't fully understand the cult following thing, but now that you explain it, I do, and so I can see how it looks to long-timers when a new poster comes in and starts unleashing on a respected board member, and mentor, even.  I will try me best to refrain from this kind of action...honestly, it was the Nazi America thing that set me off this time.

Maybe I'm just a voice that needs to speak out every once in awhile in order to remind people how silly the whole supp. industry is sometimes, even if it doesn't change anything.  I'm like a voice that need to be heard for the sake of balance.  I mean, look at what kind of influence all of that marketing has had--you yourself have basically said, since everyone does it, it's okay : )

Seriously, I don't take G-Test, but I started my first cycle of M1T and Etched (4-hydroxy Test + 7-OXO), so maybe I'm just being a homonal ex-girlfriend!!!


----------



## Tank316 (May 5, 2004)

> I expected more than "punk" or "piss ant," although I give you credit, that was pretty creative on your part


i have too much respect for Robert and his board to say what i really feel, so, on that note, tell us more about yourself brodus. like age, yrs of training....?


----------



## topolo (May 5, 2004)

I respect Robert too......I only speak when I think he will agree with me


----------



## Arnold (May 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by topolo *_
> I respect Robert too......I onle speak when I think he will agree with me





this is the second time you have said this....


----------



## Twin Peak (May 5, 2004)

Has Brodus really been that out of line in this thread?

Either I am missing it, everyone is overreacting, or there is a history that I am not aware of.

Ah well.

From my previous posts, I think its obvious that I find it slightly amusing that people are whining and bitching about this agency or that, but don't really understand the roles of the agencies or why and how this is playing out.


----------



## Randy (May 5, 2004)

If they work, they ban em... Something wrong with that picture 



> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> so you like it when the government takes away your rights to decide which supplements you can use?


----------



## topolo (May 5, 2004)

Fact is, when I have a problem with something I see as unfair or untrue, I don't use "punk" and "stupid," I take it five powers of analysis further, and that pisses people off and makes them think whatever they have conditioned themselves to think when presented with a threat to their view of life. 


----------This is true I feel very threatened when I read your posts...........I am scared!!! You are the man!


----------



## topolo (May 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> 
> 
> this is the second time you have said this....






Beacuse It's true Rob...............I learned a while back that I wasn't allowed to disagree with you


----------



## Randy (May 5, 2004)

Topolo,

We all disagree with Prince from time to time.  We just do it in a respectful manner     It's like disagreeing with your dad  <just kidding Prince>


----------



## Pepper (May 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by topolo *_
> Beacuse It's true Rob...............I learned a while back that I wasn't allowed to disagree with you



If that were true, I'd have been gone a long time ago.


----------



## Randy (May 5, 2004)

That's true Pepper... look at all the bs Prince has tolerated from me   And I'm still here


----------



## Tank316 (May 5, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> That's true Pepper... look at all the bs Prince has tolerated from me   And I'm still here


lmao, youre the biggest trouble maker around Randy!!!!!


----------



## Randy (May 6, 2004)

Thanks Tank.... I love you too


----------



## ZECH (May 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by brodus *_
> And while you can say whatever you want about Anabolicminds, how many chemists are on this board? How many people brewing superior transdermals?  I haven't seen a single one.


Excuse me? While I don't consider myself a chemist by far, I have been a member there for close to 2 years before you even joined. I have made my own transdermals for a while now. I don't spend alot of time there, but it is a great reference and I like the board. Just because you don't know any, it sounds like you are knocking members here. You have to remember that different boards have different purposes.


----------



## brodus (May 6, 2004)

True, DG806, this board has a much more extensive training and nutrition archive, probably the best on the web, IMO.

Wasn't attacking anyone--just pointing out why I would go to a-minds, and how I've never had to explain myself for questioning a sales rep there.

Have a good one.


----------



## ZECH (May 6, 2004)

I've been debating on making some tren and Tprop. I was just on AM looking at some stuff. I really wish we had more of that kind of stuff here. So If and when I do it, I think I will document it and make a thread here. I encourage you to do the same. Maybe we can get some interest going here. I know Mudge does some of his own.


----------



## gopro (May 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> I've been debating on making some tren and Tprop. I was just on AM looking at some stuff. I really wish we had more of that kind of stuff here. So If and when I do it, I think I will document it and make a thread here. I encourage you to do the same. Maybe we can get some interest going here. I know Mudge does some of his own.



Druggy


----------



## Randy (May 6, 2004)

DG....speak english, what is Tren and Tprop?   If Mudge is doing it I would be concerned


----------



## ZECH (May 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Druggy


Har Har! I'm just trying to catch up with you!


----------



## ZECH (May 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> DG....speak english, what is Tren and Tprop?   If Mudge is doing it I would be concerned


Why am I even answering this???
Trenbolone acetate(aka Finaplix) & Testosterone Propionate


----------



## Randy (May 6, 2004)

Why? Well to educate your fellow board members of course.



> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Why am I even answering this???
> Trenbolone acetate(aka Finaplix) & Testosterone Propionate




Dang.... those are some long names.  Can you say those 10 times fast backwards?


----------



## ZECH (May 6, 2004)

PTAT
PTAT
PTAT
PTAT
PTAT
PTAT
PTAT
PTAT
PTAT
PTAT
How's that?


----------



## Randy (May 6, 2004)

Nicely done DG,  nicely done indeed.


----------



## ZECH (May 6, 2004)

Thank you!


----------



## gopro (May 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Har Har! I'm just trying to catch up with you!


----------



## Randy (May 6, 2004)

Gopro,

Where has Saphire been?  Haven't heard from her for awhile.


----------



## JerseyDevil (May 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> I've been debating on making some tren and Tprop. I was just on AM looking at some stuff. I really wish we had more of that kind of stuff here. So If and when I do it, I think I will document it and make a thread here. I encourage you to do the same. Maybe we can get some interest going here. I know Mudge does some of his own.


Count me in  .


----------



## gopro (May 6, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> Gopro,
> 
> Where has Saphire been?  Haven't heard from her for awhile.



On vacation with her man.


----------



## Randy (May 7, 2004)

Dammit Gopro...you had to go and spoil it by reminding me she already has a man 



> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> On vacation with her man.


----------



## gopro (May 7, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> Dammit Gopro...you had to go and spoil it by reminding me she already has a man



Sorry, but I didn't want you to get your hopes up.


----------



## maze (May 12, 2004)

Anyone knows the life of a 1-test powder or a 4ad powder?  3 years?

Thanks


----------



## PreMier (May 12, 2004)

Roughly 2-3 years.  Vacuum seal and freeze for close to 10.


----------



## Randy (May 12, 2004)

Premier....

Don't they have 9 lives 

.       .         
\`-"'"-'/
 } 6 6 {    
=.  Y  ,=   
  /^^^\  .
 /     \  )           
(  )-(  )/ 
 ""     ""


----------



## PreMier (May 12, 2004)

Wtf...


----------



## Randy (May 12, 2004)




----------



## PreMier (May 12, 2004)

..|))
..|**)
..|(..)
*|___E

Rabbit


----------



## Randy (May 12, 2004)

WTF


----------



## MeLo (May 13, 2004)

Arnold was once in the bb ring... Now he's the governor i was wondering if he does have any authority over this at all lol


----------



## gopro (May 13, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by MeLo *_
> Arnold was once in the bb ring... Now he's the governor i was wondering if he does have any authority over this at all lol



Its not important to his agenda.


----------



## Randy (May 13, 2004)

Gopro...

Have you experimented with M1T ?
If you did I just wanted to hear your testimony on it and your recommendations...


----------



## gopro (May 13, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> Gopro...
> 
> Have you experimented with M1T ?
> If you did I just wanted to hear your testimony on it and your recommendations...



I have done two 2 week cycles. I did it while on maintenance calories (or just below) both times and gained 3-4 lbs both times. I did a very careful post cycle therapy and kept all of my gains...well, maybe lost 1 lb. I was pretty amazed that I gained as much as I did while on such low calories and such low carbs (never more than 50-100 g per day, and I weigh 240). I did get very bad lethargy both times for about the first 5-7 days and then it subsided. My strength went up moderately, but not nearly as much as it did when I did 2 weeks on MAD 250 (M 4-ad). My dose of M 1-T was 20 mg per day and I of course used VPX's Monster Test.

I think that may be it for PHs for me though.


----------



## Randy (May 13, 2004)

Yes, I was very amazed as well!  I've been running 15mg for almost 2 weeks.  I  then switched to 10mg, and am now running on my 3rd week.  I have gained 11 lbs so far (now 235lbs) and I am on a fairly low cal diet. I've been stacking with 4AD, which has effectively been combating the lethargy very nicely.   I have 6oxo awaiting for my post cycle therapy.

I've heard a few people claim that their HDL levels dropped pretty extensively though   I am hoping that was just due to testing to prematurely.  I think I will wait till about 6 months before I test.


----------



## gopro (May 14, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> Yes, I was very amazed as well!  I've been running 15mg for almost 2 weeks.  I  then switched to 10mg, and am now running on my 3rd week.  I have gained 11 lbs so far (now 235lbs) and I am on a fairly low cal diet. I've been stacking with 4AD, which has effectively been combating the lethargy very nicely.   I have 6oxo awaiting for my post cycle therapy.
> 
> I've heard a few people claim that their HDL levels dropped pretty extensively though   I am hoping that was just due to testing to prematurely.  I think I will wait till about 6 months before I test.



Most steroids tend to drop the HDL's, but they will come back up once off for a while.


----------



## brodus (May 14, 2004)

Hey Randy and GoPro, were either of you doing cardio, specifically running on the M1T?

Did you have cramping sides, particularly in the lower back?

I wish there was an inexpensive way to get bloodwork done!  Or at home chemical strips that could detect certain metabolites/hormones in your urine to help you assess your situation.  Hey GoPro-->maybe a new VPX product?


----------



## Arnold (May 14, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> I think that may be it for PHs for me though.



why?


----------



## gopro (May 14, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by brodus *_
> Hey Randy and GoPro, were either of you doing cardio, specifically running on the M1T?
> 
> Did you have cramping sides, particularly in the lower back?
> ...



I was doing only 15 min cardio 4 x per week. I had no cramping at all.

Hmmm...VPX Metabo-Test or Uri-Analysis...


----------



## gopro (May 14, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> why?



The idea of even taking prohormones still doesn't sit right with me personally. The cycles I have done have really been to test them so that I could have personal experience to speak from and also to provide VPX with accurate feedback and bloodwork for product development.

I like finding ways of forcing my body to new levels by only using food, specific amino acids, unique training protocols, creatine, etc. I will be preparing for a couple of contests later this year, and although I know PHs will be allowed in these tested events I will probably opt not to use them.


----------



## Tank316 (May 14, 2004)

I like finding ways of forcing my body to new levels by only using food, specific amino acids, unique training protocols, creatine, etc. I will be preparing for a couple of contests later this year, and although I know PHs will be allowed in these tested events I will probably opt not to use them...




same here GP, i have been using a large amount of bcaa's post work out, before,and during and really like the results!!!!!


----------



## gopro (May 14, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Tank316 *_
> I like finding ways of forcing my body to new levels by only using food, specific amino acids, unique training protocols, creatine, etc. I will be preparing for a couple of contests later this year, and although I know PHs will be allowed in these tested events I will probably opt not to use them...
> 
> 
> ...



Don't even get me started on how valuable BCAAs, glutamine, creatine and a few other items can be when used in unique ways, whether dieting or going for size!


----------



## Randy (May 14, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> The cycles I have done have really been to test them so that I could have personal experience to speak from and also to provide VPX with accurate feedback and bloodwork for product development.



Now this is hillarious... I'm still laughing  
You should run for congress gopro


----------



## Randy (May 14, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Tank316 *_
> I like finding ways of forcing my body to new levels by only using food, specific amino acids, unique training protocols, creatine, etc. I will be preparing for a couple of contests later this year, and although I know PHs will be allowed in these tested events I will probably opt not to use them...
> 
> same here GP, i have been using a large amount of bcaa's post work out, before,and during and really like the results!!!!!



I like finding ways to try to catch up to Tanks massive Hulk physique    <But no needles for me>


----------



## gopro (May 14, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> Now this is hillarious... I'm still laughing
> You should run for congress gopro



You think I was kidding or lying? I have access to boatloads of free PHs that I can use all year long and so far this year have done about 6 weeks on PHs. If they go, I could not care less (except for the denial of rights issue).


----------



## Randy (May 14, 2004)

No Gopro I was just imaging you in a situation where you were getting a speeding ticket...    

I am picturing you telling the police officer that you are a tire salesman and that you were just conducting a test to confirm the speed rating factors on the tires  


P.S.  Gopro...I'm just teasing you.


----------



## Arnold (May 14, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> I like finding ways of forcing my body to new levels by only using food, specific amino acids, unique training protocols, creatine, etc. I will be preparing for a couple of contests later this year, and although I know PHs will be allowed in these tested events I will probably opt not to use them.



sure, but we could get into the old argument about the fact that it's not really any more natural to take creatine, glutamine, or any individual amino acid. 

In fact, taking certain amino acids indivdually can have profound effects, i.e. GABA (Gamma-Aminobutryic Acid).


----------



## PreMier (May 14, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> sure, but we could get into the old argument about the fact that it's not really any more natural to take creatine, glutamine, or any individual amino acid.
> 
> In fact, taking certain amino acids indivdually can have profound effects, i.e. GABA (Gamma-Aminobutryic Acid).




Do you take aminos Prince?


----------



## Randy (May 14, 2004)




----------



## PreMier (May 14, 2004)

Whats so funny?  I like to know what Prince uses.. I use the same creatine as him.


----------



## Randy (May 14, 2004)

Asking Prince if he takes Aminos is like asking a monkey if he eats bananas


----------



## PreMier (May 14, 2004)

I should have been specific then, What kind/which aminos?(Prince)


----------



## Randy (May 14, 2004)

I'm just bored PreMier....don't mind me... 

I'm really not out to get anyone... just trying to keep myself occupied here


----------



## PreMier (May 14, 2004)

Its all good man


----------



## gopro (May 14, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> sure, but we could get into the old argument about the fact that it's not really any more natural to take creatine, glutamine, or any individual amino acid.
> 
> In fact, taking certain amino acids indivdually can have profound effects, i.e. GABA (Gamma-Aminobutryic Acid).



Well, when I tried to make that argument before everyone was telling me how prohormones are sooooooooooo much less natural than amino acids, creatine, etc.

But arguments aside, I just am not a huge fan of taking prohormones myself, thats all.


----------



## Arnold (May 14, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by PreMier *_
> Do you take aminos Prince?



Yes.

BCAA's
Creatine
Glutamine
GABA


----------



## Tank316 (May 14, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Don't even get me started on how valuable BCAAs, glutamine, creatine and a few other items can be when used in unique ways, whether dieting or going for size!


----------



## gopro (May 15, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Tank316 *_



I KNOW that YOU know all about it my dear friend! (and natural freak!).


----------



## Randy (May 15, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> Yes.
> 
> BCAA's
> ...




There are 9 essential amino acids: histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, tryptophan, and valine. These are the ones your body doesn't make that you need through supplementation.   

What is GABA Prince?  I haven't heard much about that term?

Also many don't realize that there are Amino acids provided in most of the Protein Shake Supplements that body builders take daily.


----------



## Arnold (May 15, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> There are 9 essential amino acids: histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, tryptophan, and valine. These are the ones your body doesn't make that you need through supplementation.
> 
> What is GABA Prince?  I haven't heard much about that term?
> ...



more on GABA here:
http://www.ironmagazine.com/review20.html

yes, amino acids are the building blocks of protein, so they're in anything that has protein. however, much benefit is obtained by taking certain aminos separately, i.e. glutamine and gaba.

there is also much benefit in taking extra bcaa's before and after training as tank eluded to.


----------



## Randy (May 15, 2004)

Thanks Prince....

I will most definately read up on that


----------



## kvyd (May 17, 2004)

any more news on Ph legislation?


----------



## brodus (May 17, 2004)

On April 27, 2004 it was:

"Reported from the Committee on Energy and Commerce with an amendment"

Since then, it has been placed on the Union calendar (one of five calendars in Congress) and given a number.  Other than that, no news. 

My hunch is that the major flare ups in Iraq and the growing abuse controversy, and then the build up to the election are going to overshadow any supplement legislation for sometime, at least until the fall.  I could envision a political move when the Olympics start, though.


----------



## gopro (May 17, 2004)

There are some things going on with the CEO of VPX in regards to the ban right now. He is going to be meeting with some people high up in this whole thing, but I do not remember the names he told me. He will be making an attempt to save 1-Test, although he says the methyls will be gone for sure. Also, he believes that now we have through 2004 before a ban of any kind will take place.


----------



## Randy (May 18, 2004)

Dammit they raise our gas prices,  take away our PH's, what else is next?     Beotches


----------



## Randy (May 18, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> There are some things going on with the CEO of VPX in regards to the ban right now. He is going to be meeting with some people high up in this whole thing, but I do not remember the names he told me. He will be making an attempt to save 1-Test, although he says the methyls will be gone for sure. Also, he believes that now we have through 2004 before a ban of any kind will take place.




Buy mass quantities Gopro so you can sell to us poor people who can't afford to stock up (When the ban hits).

Thanks


----------



## gopro (May 18, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> Buy mass quantities Gopro so you can sell to us poor people who can't afford to stock up (When the ban hits).
> 
> Thanks



I will have a huge stock by the time they are banned. I have about 50 clenbutrx bottles in my closet and will probably have even more PHs when they are gone. Gotta keep my friends supplied!


----------



## I'm Trying (May 18, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> There are some things going on with the CEO of VPX in regards to the ban right now. He is going to be meeting with some people high up in this whole thing, but I do not remember the names he told me. He will be making an attempt to save 1-Test, although he says the methyls will be gone for sure. Also, he believes that now we have through 2004 before a ban of any kind will take place.



Well if we have about 6 months to stock up, Ill be stocking up like a MOFO!!


----------



## gopro (May 18, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by I'm Trying *_
> Well if we have about 6 months to stock up, Ill be stocking up like a MOFO!!



You and many others


----------



## Vieope (May 18, 2004)

_Probably someone already mentioned it but if you stock up a lot of it, when it becomes illegal the stock is also illegal, isn´t it? _


----------



## gopro (May 18, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Vieope *_
> _Probably someone already mentioned it but if you stock up a lot of it, when it becomes illegal the stock is also illegal, isn´t it? _



Yes, and your point


----------



## Vieope (May 18, 2004)




----------



## Randy (May 18, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> I will have a huge stock by the time they are banned. I have about 50 clenbutrx bottles in my closet and will probably have even more PHs when they are gone. Gotta keep my friends supplied!




Kewl...   I am considered your friend right Gopro?


----------



## gopro (May 18, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> Kewl...   I am considered your friend right Gopro?



Hmmm, gotta think about that one...


----------



## PreMier (May 18, 2004)

LOL Disssssssssssssss

Your my friend Randy, but I dont have any Clenbutrx for ya.


----------



## Randy (May 18, 2004)

I'm almost affraid to ask, but what is ant Clenbutrx  

My butt is clean,  I don't need any clen-butt- rx 

Oh, and Gopro...I heard that comment


----------



## PreMier (May 18, 2004)

"Any" dick head


----------



## gopro (May 18, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> I'm almost affraid to ask, but what is ant Clenbutrx
> 
> Oh, and Gopro...I heard that comment



LOL...I'm still a bit angry at you from that other thread, but I'll get over it


----------



## Randy (May 18, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> LOL...I'm still a bit angry at you from that other thread, but I'll get over it



Ahhhh that was nothing personal gopro...  
I know you have good intentions of helping people here...
If I thought you were a bad guy I wouldn't still talk to ya


----------



## gopro (May 18, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> Ahhhh that was nothing personal gopro...
> I know you have good intentions of helping people here...
> If I thought you were a bad guy I wouldn't still talk to ya



I am reserving a few bottles for ya


----------



## Randy (May 18, 2004)

Ahhhh thank you Gopro....what a pal


----------



## gopro (May 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> Ahhhh thank you Gopro....what a pal


----------



## rrgg (May 19, 2004)

Possession and commerce are two different things.  Stocking up might not be illegal depending on how the law is written.   On the other hand, if they're merely "scheduled," then possession will be as illegal as any scheduled drug.

Why does your source think these will remain legal in 2004?  Bush seems to want to make this a campaign issue, therefore it could pass quickly.


----------



## gopro (May 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by rrgg *_
> Possession and commerce are two different things.  Stocking up might not be illegal depending on how the law is written.   On the other hand, if they're merely "scheduled," then possession will be as illegal as any scheduled drug.
> 
> Why does your source think these will remain legal in 2004?  Bush seems to want to make this a campaign issue, therefore it could pass quickly.



As the law is supposed to be written, all prohormones will be in the same class as anabolic steroids, which are scheduled class III drugs.

My source tells me there are many "other things" in the way that will prevent this ban from going foward until after 2004. Of course, anything can change at anytime.


----------



## Arnold (May 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> My source tells me there are many "other things" in the way that will prevent this ban from going foward until after 2004. Of course, anything can change at anytime.



that is good to hear, but just a few weeks ago you said different?


----------



## Randy (May 19, 2004)

Yeah, and I thought it was just me


----------



## Mechanic Pete (May 19, 2004)

What would be the top 3 ph's to stock up on?

I have been ordering once a week and my list is
60x0, 4ad, and m1-T 


PS Is Bulk Nutrition part of this site?

I have been ordering from bb since I found them before I came here, but now I'm here and want to support my new home.

Regards

Pete


----------



## PreMier (May 19, 2004)

No, bulknutrition is not part of the site, it however is the cheapest, and also has the best customer service.


----------



## Arnold (May 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Mechanic Pete *_
> What would be the top 3 ph's to stock up on?
> 
> I have been ordering once a week and my list is
> ...



yeah, those are 3 good choices IMO, but whatever works for you, I also like 1-test.

no, BulkNutrition is just a site sponsor, but yes you should support our site sponsors!


----------



## PreMier (May 19, 2004)

I didnt know they were a site sponsor


----------



## Var (May 19, 2004)

Didnt notice the big Bulk Nutrition banners on the site, huh?


----------



## Mechanic Pete (May 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> yeah, those are 3 good choices IMO, but whatever works for you, I also like 1-test.
> 
> no, BulkNutrition is just a site sponsor, but yes you should support our site sponsors!



Thanks, 

One more quick question, so far 99% of what I buy is Ergopharm.
What would be the other top suppliers that you guys have personaly used and recomend?


Regards

Pete


----------



## Randy (May 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by PreMier *_
> I didnt know they were a site sponsor



Of course I'm a site sponser


----------



## gopro (May 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> that is good to hear, but just a few weeks ago you said different?



I know, but there has been some developments. VPX is now joining the fight in a big way and a few things are happening. Also, like with most things, changes happen daily...I am just doing my best to keep all of you updated from the "inside" spot that I have. And I try to be as accurate as I can.


----------



## Randy (May 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> I know, but there has been some developments. VPX is now joining the fight in a big way and a few things are happening. Also, like with most things, changes happen daily...I am just doing my best to keep all of you updated from the "inside" spot that I have. And I try to be as accurate as I can.



Thank you gopro


----------



## gopro (May 20, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Randy *_
> Thank you gopro



Your just being nice to me now cause you want PHs after the ban! LOL.


----------



## JerseyDevil (May 20, 2004)

But if you give Randy PH's after the ban, that'll make you a black market steroid dealer.


----------



## X Ring (May 20, 2004)

and why would you bother with PH and PS if they are put in the same class as illegal juice is now.  I thought to main reason many people used PH and PS was to keep it legal.  After the band it just seem like a matter of choice, since you will get the same consequences if caught for everything regardless of what it is after the ban.


----------



## plouffe (May 20, 2004)

Well whats the strory? When can't we buy this shit anymore?


----------



## Randy (May 20, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by JerseyDevil *_
> But if you give Randy PH's after the ban, that'll make you a black market steroid dealer.



I can see it now in the front paper of the newspaper....
Agents storm the small home of a local Personal Trainer/Bodybuilder at gunpoint and arrest him for shipping 2 bottles of M1T (A recently banned Prohormone substance used in bodybuilding.)  Word has it that charges could extend to 10 years in prison for this horrific offense.  Bodybuilders around the world are astounded.    


Come on now JerseyDevil...Don't discourage Gopro now


----------



## Arnold (May 20, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> I know, but there has been some developments. VPX is now joining the fight in a big way and a few things are happening. Also, like with most things, changes happen daily...I am just doing my best to keep all of you updated from the "inside" spot that I have. And I try to be as accurate as I can.



LOL, is that because they realize how this could jeapordize their business, seeing how the majority of VPX sales are most likely from PH's.


----------



## sentricyphen (May 20, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> LOL, is that because they realize how this could jeapordize their business, seeing how the majority of VPX sales are most likely from PH's.


Hey Prince, exactly how much has the PH's helped you? Can you actually feel and see the difference? I've heard mixed replies.

Seems like people either worship them or bash them.


----------



## Randy (May 20, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by sentricyphen *_
> Hey Prince, exactly how much has the PH's helped you? Can you actually feel and see the difference? I've heard mixed replies.
> 
> Seems like people either worship them or bash them.




Just look at him.  Pictures say a thousand words!  Prince is a lean, and mean, cutting machine.   Paint him green and you could call him the incredible hulk 

Can you see and feel the difference....Hell yeah!  If your training correctly you can feel and see the difference without PH's.  But with them, just enhances the experience.  This is why bodybuilders take them .  But no PH alone is going to do it.  You still need to train hard and maintain the proper healthy diet to grow.


----------



## Arnold (May 20, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by sentricyphen *_
> Hey Prince, exactly how much has the PH's helped you? Can you actually feel and see the difference? I've heard mixed replies.
> 
> Seems like people either worship them or bash them.



Of course, why would I continue taking them?

Nothing compares to M1T though.


----------



## Randy (May 20, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> LOL, is that because they realize how this could jeapordize their business, seeing how the majority of VPX sales are most likely from PH's.



I agree.  It's all about money.   Like you said before, the government doesn't give a damn about peoples health.  But if there is a buck to be made, it can definately sway their decision.


----------



## nikegurl (May 20, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by X Ring *_
> and why would you bother with PH and PS if they are put in the same class as illegal juice is now.  I thought to main reason many people used PH and PS was to keep it legal.  After the band it just seem like a matter of choice, since you will get the same consequences if caught for everything regardless of what it is after the ban.




True...but I don't think there's much chance of being caught w/phs in your house.  I think the "danger" time w/illegal stuff is when you're buying and looking to buy them.

If you obtain the phs before the ban I can't really envision a scenario that would put you in jeopardy of being caught (unless you were selling them or something after the ban)

for instance I've been toying with the idea of trying 19Nor for awhile now.  i'll probably buy a couple and put them aside for the future.  i'm damn paranoid sometimes but i'm not gonna worry about being caught w/it after the ban.


----------



## Randy (May 20, 2004)

I agree with you there Nike .


----------



## sentricyphen (May 20, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio *_
> Of course, why would I continue taking them?
> 
> Nothing compares to M1T though.



Well alot of people say it doesn't do much for them...just wondering.


----------



## Arnold (May 20, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by sentricyphen *_
> Well alot of people say it doesn't do much for them...just wondering.



I have not heard of anyone here that would say that.


----------



## JerseyDevil (May 20, 2004)

I have, at another site of course.  I was just checking out the forum, and saw a post asking if PH's worked.  The site was www.criticalbench.com full of guys claiming 400-500 lb bench presses, naturally.  The advice went something like, "how many times do we have to go over this?  Ph's are a waste of money, they don't work, and if they did, they would be illegal".

Having done a few PH cycles and knowing they most definitely DO work, I couldn't leave well enough alone, and stated the results I received.  I was flamed big time.  The consensus was it was nothing but a placebo effect, and that since I 'thought' I was on, I was more serious about my diet and training.

In a polite way, I told them they were idiots, because none of these asswipes actually TRIED them.  They just couldn't believe that if it were legal, it could work.


----------



## Var (May 20, 2004)

PH's dont work, yet they advertise "Growth Factor-1" on their site?


----------



## JerseyDevil (May 20, 2004)

Exactly.


----------



## brodus (May 20, 2004)

*Uh...what?*

They also claim this 260 pound lardass benches 375!


----------



## brodus (May 20, 2004)

Oh, and this 169 pound tough guy is throwing up 405...hahaha...he must have taken a lot of "growth factor 1"


----------



## PreMier (May 20, 2004)

He probably could... if he was wearing a shirt.  I could probably hit close to 400 with a shirt.


----------



## brodus (May 20, 2004)

I don't know...I must know nothing about benching and shirts then.  Chest is my weakest area, but I'm way more ripped out than these guys and I'm nowhere near 400 bench.


----------



## PreMier (May 20, 2004)

Well, shirts are really super tight.  Its kind of like a super suit for your chest, or shorts for squats.  Basically it makes you bench a lot more than you ever could "raw", or "unshirted".  Its a powerlifter thing 
Do you have dsl?  Maybe I can dig a video up of someone putting a shirt on, and you will see.


----------



## brodus (May 20, 2004)

Yeah, I got a screamin' Cable connection...I guess I lift for BB and toning purposes, so my bench could probably be a LOT higher if I focused like a powerlifter.


----------



## PreMier (May 20, 2004)

http://web.mit.edu/kevtrice/www/455.mov


----------



## Randy (May 21, 2004)

I weigh about 230 and am up to about 290 on bench..  My goal is to hit 300...  But at the 290 mark it is heavier than hell for me.  I have always had wrist problems so that doesn't help.


----------



## Randy (May 21, 2004)

To hear of that 169 pound string bean doing 405 ....All I can say is one word "JUICE"


----------



## brokeass122 (May 25, 2004)

i love how the gov can place a ban on ph's in a few short months, but if i want i can go buy a pack of cancer sticks that are actually proven to kill people

so cigaretts are ok cause they just give u cancer but ph's are not cause if you abuse them you might cause yourself a possible health risk


----------



## Witmaster (May 25, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by brokeass122 *_
> i love how the gov can place a ban on ph's in a few short months, but if i want i can go buy a pack of cancer sticks that are actually proven to kill people
> 
> so cigaretts are ok cause they just give u cancer but ph's are not cause if you abuse them you might cause yourself a possible health risk



Actually..... Cigarettes are backed by HUGE ammounts of dollars and special interests groups who contribute unfathomable ammounts of cash to solicite polkitical influence on both sides of the house.  Tobacco is BIG $$ and despite the health risks, I can assure you there are those in Washington who may condemn the act of smoking but they are not even ready to entertain the idea of aboloshing this rich cash reserve.

PH's (on the other hand) really don't offer a whole lot of cash influence up on capital hill.  Additionally, the suppliment industry as a whole has proven to be a Massive Multi-Billion dollar industry in which the FDA has little or no control over.  I can assure you this is intolerable to them and they will most certainly make every attempt to eventually gain control over this industry, if fo no other reason, to claim a chunk of the revenue.

Ok, I'll hush now


----------



## tomas101 (May 25, 2004)

you have lobbyists who will never allow cigerattes to become illegal


----------



## brodus (May 25, 2004)

Agreed on the lobbyists, but there is now a bill in Congress to make Cigarettes fall under the jurisdiction of the FDA, meaning they would be regulated nearly out of existence specifically for health reasons.

You must realize that since Alcohol and Tobacco are not regarded as Foods/Drugs under the current schema, that they don't have to follow the same rules as, say, supplements, so comparing Cigarettes to Andro is apples to oranges.  They have their own oversight body, the ATF.  But this bill would make Cigarettes liable to the same controls that food products are, which I feel would level the playing field---b/c it's not the same as prohibition.  It's redefining cigarettes. 

And although tobacco manufacturers are going to fight this tooth and nail, they have dramatically diversified in the last ten years in anticipation of these possibilities, in order to offset their asset risk and hedge their bets.


----------



## brodus (May 25, 2004)

Here's info on the bill:
http://www.news8austin.com/content/your_news/default.asp?ArID=107590


And of course, the subsequent lawsuit filed by the tobacco industry:

http://www.courttv.com/archive/legaldocs/business/tobacco/fdasuit.html

And interestingly, one major company is BEHIND FDA regulation:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/724016/posts


----------



## kvyd (May 25, 2004)

what i still find baffling is how alcohol and tobacco arnt considered drugs by our incredibly "smart" government


----------

