# First cycle with sustanon and deca



## blittzz (Apr 18, 2004)

Hello There,

I am a super hard gainer at 145lbs with 29yrs old. I have been with weights for some time now but after trying to bulk up... I just cannot gain the weight I want. 

I decided to start using steroids to bulk up some...I don't want to abuse them either but have read a lot about them. I am planning to use sustanon 250, and deca-durabolin or primobolan depot, mainly  because that is what is available in my local pharmacy.....can you believe it they sell it just over the counter..I dont even think these people know what those injections are for... I mean some pharmacies even have an express delivery right to your doorstep~! 

Anyway I want to start using any of these combanations and think the best one is sustanon and deca. The deca sells for about $14 for a 50mg ampule and have heard it is good to use about 200mg at least a week to have some effect. 

I want to know of a good cycle to use with sustanon and deca and for how long.?? I hear 6-8 weeks is good,,, what can the side effects be???

Thanks for any advice on this... it is much appreciated...


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## disinterment (Apr 18, 2004)

At 145 I think you got alot more growing.No one is really a hard gainer.How you tryed to eat about 4,000 or 5,000 cals? As for the deca $14 for 50mg amp is pretty expensive especially if it is legal in your country.If you don't know what the side effects are you should do more research on this cycle before you start.
This is how I would run it.don't forget about PCT.
sust@500mg wk1-10
deca@400mg wk1-10


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## Mudge (Apr 18, 2004)

Dont touch the deca, just run sust if you feel like cycling. 8-10 weeks is a good starter, 500mg which should be two amps. If they have vials they are almost unanimously cheaper, and easier to deal with to me.

Food is your master, you wont gain much of anything if you can't eat and gain weight naturally. I would increase your calories about 1250 from your current maintenance, and keep track EVERY DAY and EVERY MEAL.

You can run the deca if you want but really test alone is fine for a first cycle, and the deca is way way overpriced for $14/50mg.

Dont forget post cycle drugs, as mentioned. When you come off DONT drop your calories to the floor or you will lose everything.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Apr 18, 2004)

before I would cycle blittzz I would get your diet in check. There is a point with diet alone that everyone will be able to put on mass. No matter who you are there is a point where you will start to grow. For some this comes easier and for some it comes harder. Some guys can't eat enough it seems while others really don't have to over eat as long as they get in enough protein and carbs to support muscle repair. Myself I don't have to eat like its going out of style to put on mass I just have to eat clean 6-8 meals a day. Some guys HAVE to eat 5k-8k calories a day before the put on any serious size. I can't see myself doing that at this stage. Once you get your diet in check do some research online about what you want to take. The net is an endless source of info. Once you have a good idea of what you plan on doing guys in here can help you fine tune things to help you along and get the best gains.


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## blittzz (Apr 19, 2004)

Thanks for the info~!!

I will monitor the cals and see ways of incrementing them.  Some of you mention post cylce drugs and I have read that they are needed since steroids shut down the production of the bodys test.  

What are some of them? 

thanks again


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## Mudge (Apr 19, 2004)

See the PCT sticky at the top. Primarily you are looking at HCG for avoiding atrophy, and nolvadex/clomid post.

I decided to try something different, and continued with my femera treatment, worked awesome. Nolvadex is my next choice.


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## Dale Mabry (Apr 19, 2004)

A)Why sustanon?  I would go with something like test cyp or enanthate.

B)Are the prices you quoted in American dollars or does Costa Rica have it's own dollar?  This would clear up any confusion regarding the price of the Deca.


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## Flex (Apr 19, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Mudge *_
> Food is your master, you wont gain much of anything if you can't eat and gain weight naturally.



listen to the Supermod.

honestly bro, it sounds like your jumping into something you know very little about. i know "do some research" is not what you wanna hear, but you really should. 

Eat more first of all, do a ton of research, learn how to maximize results from your training, grow naturally some, then, when/if you know what you're doing, then consider juicing.


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## blittzz (Apr 19, 2004)

thanks for the feedback. i guess I would have to reconsider my options.

I have read plenty on the subject, mags, and internet. I know there are risks involved, but I just thought that doing one cycle might help me bulk up. Since the sustanon is available and not expensive, I thought it would be ok to try it for 6-8wks and gain some muslce and weight that way. By the way the dollars are US.  Protein/weight gainers powders are not cheap here they usually are about $10-$30 more than what they sell for in the US.

Sorry for the ignorance but I am new at this >> what is the PCT sticky? ;-)

Actually I have already tried sustanon last friday, I bought an ampule and injected myself, and was thinking of doing so every week.


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## Mudge (Apr 19, 2004)

A "sticky" is a thread stuck to the top of the forum... PCT is Post Cycle Therapy.

I tried the see food diet where you just eat when you feel like it (when you see food, you eat it) but I would highly recommend treating it scientifically, count your daily calories and you should be FAR above your maintenance. Spread your food through the day so you dont throw it up, and it will also be better for nutrition useage by the body.

$14 for 50mg of deca is outrageous, $56 a week for a worthless dose of deca? Thats crazy.

Try to find vials of sust or some other test, they should have 5 or 10ml at least. Vials are usually cheaper and they are easy to deal with, I dont like busting open amps   Sustanon is a mix of 4 different esters, and the short prop esters really should be injected every other day, or daily, not once a week.

Other versions of test are often cheaper.


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## alexvega (Aug 13, 2004)

*hello*



			
				Mudge said:
			
		

> Dont touch the deca, just run sust if you feel like cycling. 8-10 weeks is a good starter, 500mg which should be two amps. If they have vials they are almost unanimously cheaper, and easier to deal with to me.
> 
> Food is your master, you wont gain much of anything if you can't eat and gain weight naturally. I would increase your calories about 1250 from your current maintenance, and keep track EVERY DAY and EVERY MEAL.
> 
> ...


 

letme as you something, why don´t touch the deca. just sust, how work pct


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## TrojanMan60563 (Aug 13, 2004)

vega deca tends to shut people down hard making it harder for one to get their natural test levels back up. For a newbie this isn't a recommended drug. It is however very popular due to the reduced amounts of sides and tends to be a milder steroid.


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## Mudge (Aug 13, 2004)

The only thing that hits me hardcore compared to deca is tren, that thing will turn your balls into raisins without hCG.


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## Pirate! (Aug 14, 2004)

Mudge said:
			
		

> I decided to try something different, and continued with my femera treatment, worked awesome. Nolvadex is my next choice.


 How could you tell that the femera worked better than Nolva? When you say continued do you mean you were using it on cycle, too and just kept using? At what dosage? I've only used nolva, but I have some femera on the way. Any insight on how to run the femera would be much appreciated.


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## Pirate! (Aug 14, 2004)

Mudge said:
			
		

> The only thing that hits me hardcore compared to deca is tren, that thing will turn your balls into raisins without hCG.


 To correct this problem with test/deca cycle, could on just use more hcg: like 500 iu twice weely?


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## Mudge (Aug 14, 2004)

PirateFromHell said:
			
		

> To correct this problem with test/deca cycle, could on just use more hcg: like 500 iu twice weely?



250-500iu twice a week is standard.



			
				PirateFromHell said:
			
		

> How could you tell that the femera worked better than Nolva?



Never said it worked better, you just have to be very carefull with how much you use. Being that I didn't lose any strength or size, I was happy with the results. However the weekened that I moved, and switched gyms, within that one weekened (about 3 days) I lost mysterious strength.


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## Pirate! (Aug 14, 2004)

Mudge said:
			
		

> Never said it worked better, you just have to be very carefull with how much you use.


What was your femera dosing schedule like?


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## Mudge (Aug 14, 2004)

I was probably doing .25mg ED down to .125mg ED, I have been using letro ever since though.

I will likely be going back to clomid for PCT.

I have seen a single study somewhere of an anti aromatase being used to bring up T levels, and I believe FSH was monitored as well as LH but I am not positive I saved the article.


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## Pirate! (Aug 14, 2004)

Yeah, those are the doses I have read about. I assume you took it to keep the water down and maybe a little added insurance against gyno. Since you said it was awesome, I guess it helped a lot with bloat. Thanks for the input. I just got some today. I'll probably keep it at small does so I can have some estrogen floating around. My cycle has been delayed due to an injury though.


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## Mudge (Aug 14, 2004)

For me its anti gyno, has nothing to do with bloat, although I watch my BP.


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## alexvega (Aug 15, 2004)

*ummmmm*



			
				TrojanMan60563 said:
			
		

> vega deca tends to shut people down hard making it harder for one to get their natural test levels back up. For a newbie this isn't a recommended drug. It is however very popular due to the reduced amounts of sides and tends to be a milder steroid.


HI, MR. i need to understand better the situation, why daca it´s not good, 
isaw the people recoment the deca , deca is the same that decanoato  nandrolona .


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## SJ69 (Aug 15, 2004)

Mudge said:
			
		

> I was probably doing .25mg ED down to .125mg ED, I have been using letro ever since though.
> 
> I will likely be going back to clomid for PCT.
> 
> I have seen a single study somewhere of an anti aromatase being used to bring up T levels, and I believe FSH was monitored as well as LH but I am not positive I saved the article.



Acouple questions Mudge.
1. Why Letro over arimadex?
2. Why clomid instead of Nolvadex, given clomids sides?


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## LAM (Aug 15, 2004)

blittzz said:
			
		

> Hello There,
> 
> I am a super hard gainer at 145lbs with 29yrs old. I have been with weights for some time now but after trying to bulk up... I just cannot gain the weight I want.



do you count calories every single day ?


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## Evil ANT (Aug 15, 2004)

Some people really are hard gainers, and I'm one of them. I've never had the genetics to gain muscle fast as I come from a pretty soft family of artists. I can eat and eat, but I gain fat way, way, way, way faster than I gain muscle. I could eat a grape and it'd turn to fat it seems. Meanwhile, my friend who is a weightlifter can eat the _exact_ same things as me and gain muscle like crazy.

So, in my opinion, genetics definitely play a huge role in muscle gains.

Since I started my cycle my body's reacted fairly well. I'm gaining muscle slowly. I watch my calories and count my protein every day.


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## Mudge (Aug 15, 2004)

SJ69 said:
			
		

> 1. Why Letro over arimadex?
> 2. Why clomid instead of Nolvadex, given clomids sides?



1. Because its effectiveness is supposed to be better.
2. Because its effectiveness is supposed to be better, but yes the sides can suck.


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## TrojanMan60563 (Aug 15, 2004)

alexvega said:
			
		

> HI, MR. i need to understand better the situation, why daca it´s not good,
> isaw the people recoment the deca , deca is the same that decanoato  nandrolona .



Deca is a very popular drug because it has mild sides as far as bloat/gyno but it shuts down your balls really bad. This means that it will take longer to get your natural test levels up after a cycle. I think if your going to run deca you need to make sure you have some HCG on hand to help your balls out before starting your PCT. Most newbies that start a cycle get a hold of deca because its so popular and easy to obtain. It has a great reputation for gaining size when ran with test, and it helps lube sore joints. What most new steroid users don't do it enough research on what their are taking so they do not set up a proper PCT and do not use HCG for the testicles. I think the nandrolona is the same as deca but sounds like a spanish name. You will have to look up the name to see what it is. I do not have much knowlege in all the brand names for deca. I would have to research that for you, and honestly I don't have the time right now to do that. If you want to know bad enough do some research yourself. Good luck!


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