# Nightime Eating



## pwloiacano (Sep 24, 2010)

I have a question regarding night-time eating.

During the day, I eat pretty good.  Egg Whites ; Wheat Toast ; Turkey ; Cheese ; either a red meat, fish, pork, or ground beef for dinner.  Ocassionally chicken.  Lots of veggies and fruits.

At night (an hour or two before bed), for some reason, I always have a craving for sweets.  Usually cookies or dark chocolate and lots of milk.  I know that this is probably negating my good eating during the day, but that damn craving is always there!!

Any suggestions on what I can eat in place of the junk at night that might satisfy this craving of mine??


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## Caretaker (Sep 24, 2010)

Fruit, yogurt, cottage cheese with fruit or maybe Polaner all fruit. Peanut butter.. I usually have a banana and a hanful of almonds. Or a protein shake(one scoop).If youn use skim milk and ice it`s very similar to a real shake.


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## gtbmed (Sep 24, 2010)

Fruit is probably the best choice.


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## 07bobber (Sep 24, 2010)

I go with an apple and peanut butter


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## vortrit (Sep 24, 2010)

I'd go with peanut butter and milk. Milk has casein protein in it which is great before going to bed. That, or some cottage cheese with a little fruit in it.


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## jmorrison (Sep 24, 2010)

This may sound odd, but I try to avoid carbs with dinner for this exact reason.  If I eat a lot of carbs at 5-6pm, by 9 I am ready to tear into cookies and milk.  So maybe try to keep your evening meal strictly to meat and fibrous veggies. At least it works for me.

Also, if you absolutely cannot make it, grab some natty peanut butter instead of chocolate.  It will satisfy your sweet tooth, and is much better for you, just be careful on how much...it is very calorically dense.


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## vortrit (Sep 25, 2010)

Richard Gears said:


> do u even workout? You narrow shouldered, java swigging, raggedy bearded fidel castro lookalike.



Yeah, I did once.


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## Nightowl (Sep 25, 2010)

I usually am with peanut butter, but I am suckered at times with a slice of bread, but usually take most of the bread out of the picture.  Also, if I am with cheese crackers with peanut butter, I am guilty!!!

I have'nt been too bad with sweets, but learning to like the protein shake, skim milk and one scoop as the alternative.

Could you match wits with a break down explaination... why the fruit before bed, because someone said that the sugar content that is natural in fruit, if not fully used is then changed to fat.

 So, if I have worked out for 30 or 90 minutes, the best of the choices is then fruit?


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## LAM (Sep 25, 2010)

pwloiacano said:


> I have a question regarding night-time eating.
> 
> During the day, I eat pretty good.  Egg Whites ; Wheat Toast ; Turkey ; Cheese ; either a red meat, fish, pork, or ground beef for dinner.  Ocassionally chicken.  Lots of veggies and fruits.
> 
> ...



5-HTP can help to kill those carb cravings late at night take from 50-300mg at night.  

sometimes when you don't eat enough during the day you will crave food at night.  but when you are dieting down you are almost always hungry a little most of the waking day..lol

consuming large amounts of simple sugars at night causes high insulin levels which blunts GH secretion during the 1st sleep cycle.


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## Nightowl (Sep 25, 2010)

Lam,

thank you for the suggestion, for I used to use those.

Nightowl


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## tucker01 (Sep 25, 2010)

You could try eating one of your larger meals later in the day.


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## LAM (Sep 25, 2010)

Nightowl said:


> Lam,
> 
> thank you for the suggestion, for I used to use those.
> 
> Nightowl



nothing wrong with eating at night but at night you won't to make the best food choices possible.  if you are dieting down then at night most foods consumed should be proteins, fats and low GI carbs and/or veggies.  insulin sensitivity is also naturally lower at night so when dieting down you would want to make the meals smaller and lower GI as the day progresses.

now if you are dieting down and training at night there is surely nothing wrong with eating more carbs before and after training and later on in the day in general as they will be utilized efficiently.


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## johnson 45 (Sep 28, 2010)

vortrit said:


> I'd go with peanut butter and milk. Milk has casein protein in it which is great before going to bed. That, or some cottage cheese with a little fruit in it.


Dude shut your hippie mouth!!! You dont know SHIT!!


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## Built (Sep 28, 2010)

IainDaniel said:


> You could try eating one of your larger meals later in the day.





I eat chocolate just before bed. It's pretty much the only time I eat it. I just budget for it.


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## vortrit (Sep 28, 2010)

johnson 45 said:


> Dude shut your hippie mouth!!! You dont know SHIT!!



What are you doing in this thread? It's not two years old or older?



Troll...


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## Built (Sep 28, 2010)

LAM said:


> nothing wrong with eating at night but at night you won't to make the best food choices possible.  if you are dieting down then at night most foods consumed should be proteins, fats and low GI carbs and/or veggies.


Why?


LAM said:


> insulin sensitivity is also naturally lower at night so when dieting down you would want to make the meals smaller and lower GI as the day progresses.


Again, why?


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## gtbmed (Sep 28, 2010)

I'll believe in 24 hour nutrition until I see a legit body of evidence that proves that nutrient timing matters.


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## Built (Sep 28, 2010)

The biggest issue by far for me with regard to nutrient timing is hunger. If I time it right, I don't overstimulate my appetite when I eat carbs.


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## gtbmed (Sep 28, 2010)

Built said:


> The biggest issue by far for me with regard to nutrient timing is hunger. If I time it right, I don't overstimulate my appetite when I eat carbs.



I just read a weird study that compared habits and weight gain in night-time eaters and non night-time eaters.  They allowed both groups to eat freely.  Night eaters tended to consume more calories.

Of course the study concluded that night eating could lead to weight gain.  No, it couldn't simply be that increased caloric intake leads weight gain, could it?


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## Built (Sep 28, 2010)

gtbmed said:


> I just read a weird study that compared habits and weight gain in night-time eaters and non night-time eaters.  They allowed both groups to eat freely.  Night eaters tended to consume more calories.
> 
> Of course the study concluded that night eating could lead to weight gain.  No, it couldn't simply be that increased caloric intake leads weight gain, could it?



I know, it really galls. 

I'm kinda digging eating between noon and ten PM these days.


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## Nightowl (Sep 28, 2010)

Built said:


> I eat chocolate just before bed. It's pretty much the only time I eat it. I just budget for it.


 

Built, you've got the ming vase body   aka a beautiful body!

but for  many of us,  "me" have a transition of fat that takes place, that is if I eat chocolate.  Is there a particular reason for why you eat it then?

I used to eat apples, and yogurt with flax seed, right before going to bed.


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## Built (Sep 28, 2010)

What's a transition of fat that takes place?

(PS thanks for the props!)


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## DaMayor (Sep 29, 2010)

Built said:


> What's a transition of fat that takes place?
> 
> (PS thanks for the props!)



Doh....It changes from *little teenie fat *to *big fluffy fat*.....Pfffft....don't you know this stuff?


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## Nightowl (Sep 29, 2010)

Built said:


> What's a transition of fat that takes place?
> 
> (PS thanks for the props!)


 
funny on the last note, not exactly the process as so told to me by few people.

Built,

It was then said that with those that have more body fat and cells that have stored up the fat... then  these cells are craving and seeking more.  Which can or could be fruit and carbs and truly many things if not burned are converted to "Fat".  

  So that what was told to me some time ago.  That's why when I eat something at night...GUILT TRIP  

And yes, I've been hung out to dry at times.


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## vortrit (Sep 29, 2010)

calories in > calories out = fat.


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## pwloiacano (Sep 29, 2010)

I am seeing here that eating too many carbs late at night is not a good thing as if the energy is not burned off, then it turns to fat.  It's funny that is what I crave at night is sugar.

What I am looking for is a good dose of nutrients before I go to bed to help my muscles recover, especially on training days.  Whey Protein has come to mind, but I have read and been told that it doesn't stay in your body too long.  It is rapidly absorbed.  I am looking for something that will be a bit slower release.

Also, how many grams of casein protein (like in cottage cheese or milk) is enough before bedtime?


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## jennygymbunny (Sep 29, 2010)

Isn't eating before bed a bad idea anyways??


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## Built (Sep 29, 2010)

pwloiacano said:


> I am seeing here that eating too many carbs late at night is not a good thing as if the energy is not burned off, then it turns to fat.


Where it will be retrieved later on for energy. Don't worry about it. 


pwloiacano said:


> It's funny that is what I crave at night is sugar.
> 
> What I am looking for is a good dose of nutrients before I go to bed to help my muscles recover, especially on training days.  Whey Protein has come to mind, but I have read and been told that it doesn't stay in your body too long.  It is rapidly absorbed.  I am looking for something that will be a bit slower release.
> 
> Also, how many grams of casein protein (like in cottage cheese or milk) is enough before bedtime?


It really is calories in - calories out. Please don't get caught up in the speed of delivery for while you are sleeping. 

What time do you train?


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## Built (Sep 29, 2010)

jennygymbunny said:


> Isn't eating before bed a bad idea anyways??



Nope. 

Overeating (where total calories in > total calories out) leads to weight gain. The time of day these calories are consumed won't matter.


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## DaMayor (Sep 29, 2010)

In reference to the study mentioned earlier..... Where can this be found? 

I think that the whole late night eating thing _can be _a more complex behavioral issue, (i.e. dietetic down-low syndrome, lol.) and shouldn't be intermingled or confused with simple caloric allocation. 

A general wiki-stab at NES:
Night eating syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've found that there's really no significant impact from variation in feeding times, as long as you stay within your normal/intended caloric range. The trouble with late night eating is that it creates the potential to go beyond 'getting your planned/target calories in' for the day, and triggers those psychological weaknesses that will derail one's diet plan........says the guy who has a discussion with the jar of *Evil Peanut Butter *every single night of his life.


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## gtbmed (Sep 29, 2010)

I found it on PubMed, I'll try to dig it up if you want to read it.


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## LAM (Sep 29, 2010)

Built said:


> Why?
> 
> Again, why?



the process of feeding throughout the day naturally causes insulin sensitivity in skeletal muscle to decrease as the day progresses.  this is why insulin sensitivity is so high after fasting and in the am after sleeping.  genetic variances, meal composition and the time of training are all some factors which would influence this.


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## gtbmed (Sep 29, 2010)

LAM said:


> the process of feeding throughout the day naturally causes insulin sensitivity in skeletal muscle to decrease as the day progresses.  this is why insulin sensitivity is so high after fasting and in the am after sleeping.  genetic variances, meal composition and the time of training are all some factors which would influence this.



What if you fast during the day and eat at night?


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## LAM (Sep 30, 2010)

gtbmed said:


> What if you fast during the day and eat at night?



insulin sensitivity would still be high since skeletal muscle would not have been de-sensitized to effects from feeding through out the day.


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## Built (Sep 30, 2010)

Built said:


> LAM said:
> 
> 
> > nothing wrong with eating at night but at night you won't to make the best food choices possible.  if you are dieting down then at night most foods consumed should be proteins, fats and low GI carbs and/or veggies.
> ...





LAM said:


> the process of feeding throughout the day naturally causes insulin sensitivity in skeletal muscle to decrease as the day progresses.  this is why insulin sensitivity is so high after fasting and in the am after sleeping.  genetic variances, meal composition and the time of training are all some factors which would influence this.



Sure, and this could theoretically impact, slightly, upon partitioning, but not net calorie balance. In a deficit this would not be an issue at all. In a surplus, it *might*, a bit, but likely nothing most folks would notice and certainly nothing the published research supports. 

The bigger deal in terms of compliance is this: since insulin sensitivity is worse at night, carbs will tend to make insulin resistant folks hungrier at that time. Therefore, it may be best to eat them as late as possible, then brush your teeth and go to bed before their consumption is able to induce overeating. Besides, in a deficit, if you store calories, you'll retrieve them later. That's what our fat cells are for - without them, we would die!


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## gtbmed (Sep 30, 2010)

LAM said:


> insulin sensitivity would still be high since skeletal muscle would not have been de-sensitized to effects from feeding through out the day.



You wouldn't be feeding throughout the day, you'd be fasting...

If you fasted with the same fasting window for a while, I don't see how things would change depending on the when you chose to start and stop fasting.

So if I ate between 12pm and 9pm every day, I doubt I would see any negative results relative to a person eating the same diet between 9am and 6pm or 5am and 2pm or 11pm and 8am.

To me, it's intuitive that the duration of the fast is all that matters.  The timing would seem to be trivial.


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## pwloiacano (Sep 30, 2010)

To answer BUILT...  My normal training pattern right now is about 8-9 am start time.  My training session will usually last about 60-90 minutes max.  4 days on ; 1 to 2 days off depending on how my joints and tendons feel.  I am 44 and some weeks are better than others.


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## LAM (Sep 30, 2010)

gtbmed said:


> You wouldn't be feeding throughout the day, you'd be fasting...
> 
> If you fasted with the same fasting window for a while, I don't see how things would change depending on the when you chose to start and stop fasting.
> 
> ...



exactly...you would be fasting so IS in skeletal muscle remains is high.  athletes do not fast so i'm not sure where that fits into this topic but regardless every time you eat IS decreases slightly.  this is why a person wouldn't want to eat through out the day then finish up the day with a large meal or a very high calorie meal as IS has natural decreased as a result of feeding.


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## Built (Sep 30, 2010)

Okay, but under calorie-controlled conditions, what impact is this going to have?


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## LAM (Sep 30, 2010)

Built said:


> Okay, but under calorie-controlled conditions, what impact is this going to have?



depends on the individual..it's just one more piece of the puzzle.  for athletes like you with year round low bf obviously high IS isn't an issue. but for those training to get control of the bf it would have a very positive effect on the eating habits and optimizing GH output during sleep


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## Built (Sep 30, 2010)

LOL thanks at the year-round low bf - I try to stay under 20% but that's not exactly ripped. I'm also not at all insulin sensitive. Quite the opposite, in fact.


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## jmorrison (Oct 1, 2010)

Learning a lot.  Great thread.


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## vortrit (Oct 1, 2010)

jmorrison said:


> Learning a lot.  Great thread.



Ditto


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## pwloiacano (Oct 1, 2010)

I also agree.  Glad I started this thread.

My main objective when starting this thread was to determine how much nutrients to give my body before going to bed.  This time period (6-8 hrs) is the longest that I go without eating during the course of a 24 hour period.

It is sounding to me that I may be making much more of this than I need to.  If I am reading this properly, I guess some moderate protein intake at night as long as I am ingesting a good amount balanced during the day should do the trick.


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## vortrit (Oct 1, 2010)

pwloiacano said:


> I guess some moderate protein intake at night as long as I am ingesting a good amount balanced during the day should do the trick.



I've always been advised to eat thing like cottage cheese before bed or in the evening because the casein proteins absorb into your body throughout the night.


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## Nightowl (Oct 1, 2010)

Richard Gears said:


> lmao.


 

can you use a thinner needle?

I understand the necessary length, but the size or diameter of the needle is what is kicking my ass

p.s.

great satin sheets!


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## vortrit (Oct 2, 2010)

Richard Gears said:


> lmao.



You have been warned. No gears for 3 days. Keep it up, Mr., and I'll make it a week.


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## skinnyduude (Oct 2, 2010)

I am looking for a meal plan for myself 33 6ft 155lbs I plan on taking enanthate. I need a plan to bulk up. I am a hard gainer and never had a big appetite. please list types of foods not just the calorie and carb protien intake and supplements. thanks


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## jmorrison (Oct 2, 2010)

If you are 6 ft 155lbs stay the hell away from the test until you learn how to eat man.  Some ideas for high cals:

1. Olive oil
2. Peanut Butter
3. Eggs
4. Milk

Those are 4 healthy choices that are calorically dense.


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## Built (Oct 2, 2010)

skinnyduude said:


> I am looking for a meal plan for myself 33 6ft 155lbs I plan on taking enanthate. I need a plan to bulk up. I am a hard gainer and never had a big appetite. please list types of foods not just the calorie and carb protien intake and supplements. thanks



How many calories do you consume daily?
What is your macronutrient mix?

I have never, ever met a true hardgainer. I have, however, met a great many undereaters. If you can't gain weight off gear, you aren't going to gain weight ON gear. Gear doesn't add weight. Only food does that. Pinky swear!

Now post up your macros.


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## jagbender (Mar 30, 2011)

pwloiacano said:


> I have a question regarding night-time eating.
> 
> During the day, I eat pretty good. Egg Whites ; Wheat Toast ; Turkey ; Cheese ; either a red meat, fish, pork, or ground beef for dinner. Ocassionally chicken. Lots of veggies and fruits.
> 
> ...


 
I make a coconut pudding with  1 scoop vanilla Casein protein and 1 cup  Silk Coconut milk. 1T unsweetened shredded coconut and a little vanilla. 
helps me with the sweet cravings and the casein is slow release protein. 
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/healthy-recipes/123531-coconut-cream-pie-protein-pudding.html


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## andreaus (Jun 4, 2011)

large chocky casein protein shake (simple)


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## !Fighter (Jun 6, 2011)

Chocolate chip cookies.


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## careless22 (Jun 6, 2011)

have nonfat cottage cheese with some sugarfree strawberry jam

/endthread


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## a843 (Jun 6, 2011)

when bulking I have cottage cheese with tons of natty peanut butter. it actually tastes really good.


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## sharoncrunch (Jun 6, 2011)

I, too, desire something sweet in the evenings --after eating very cleanly all day.  As long as I alloted myself the appropriate Pro/CHO/Fat, it has no effect on me whatsoever.

Bottom line is it is all about calories in...and calories out.  Everything else is peripheral.


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## doctorcarta (Jun 7, 2011)

fruit and nuts if cutting...dairy if you are bulking...


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## Built (Jun 7, 2011)

doctorcarta said:


> fruit and nuts if cutting...dairy if you are bulking...



Er... care to explain?


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## LAM (Jun 7, 2011)

jmorrison said:


> If you are 6 ft 155lbs stay the hell away from the test until you learn how to eat man.  Some ideas for high cals:
> 
> 1. Olive oil
> 2. Peanut Butter
> ...



that's a big ditto...supplementing with anabolics won't do squat unless you have a caloric excess in the diet with sufficient carbs and fats and are training at high levels of intensity.   I have seen so many people over the decades jump into using gear before they even know hot to eat. seen plenty of people in your weight range gain 10-15 lbs on the scale the first cycle.


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## wolf2009 (Jun 8, 2011)

Go for fruits and easily digesting foods....avoid foods like breads,paste etc


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## Bonesaw (Jun 8, 2011)

pb & j with a casein shake is my before bed meal.  Built hit it on the head with the under eating vs "hardgainer".  First step is admitting your an under eater.


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## tropical2011 (Jun 8, 2011)

Peanutbutter on a whole wheat bagel with low fat milk. Cures me.


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## Clenbut (Jun 20, 2011)

I prefer to have some fruits in night.


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## Alexa1 (Jun 20, 2011)

*Night feed*

I have the same problem and no matter what I have for diner I still have cravings for sweets. I have sweet tooth anyway but eating before going to bed doesn???t help.
Now days instead of eating sweets I have stash of different kinds of raw nuts and as soon as I have cravings for sweets I eat nuts. My favourite nuts at the moment are the cashew nuts. The problem now is that after eating nuts I fell like having a beer so I will need to find another drink to replace the beer with.


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## njc (Jun 22, 2011)

07bobber said:


> I go with an apple and peanut butter


 

X2

Get youreself an apple slicer and some natty pb.  Eat a couple cups of lowfat cottage cheese and apple slices with a little pb.  Delicious.


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