# Weight Loss Plateau



## Jill (Jul 11, 2004)

What do you do when your weight hasnt dropped in a while, and your cals are already low??  Cut em even more??? OR, is it normal to hit a weight loss plateau for a while, and to just get past it, and then the weight will drop after that?


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## Premo55 (Jul 11, 2004)

I guess you could do cardio, Jill. I'm on carb cycling and I haven't lost anything i a while too, and I guess it's my fault, because I hate cardio and refuse to do more than one session a week. I could cut some carbs out of my high or low days, but it's hellish enough doing a high/no/lo/no/high/low/no. I'm thinking of switching to a 50/30/20 plan.

Sorry for hijacking your thread, Jill. I had to vent.

Peace.


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## Jill (Jul 11, 2004)

I already do cardio 5-6X a week. Lots of it.  Thanks Premo.


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## Premo55 (Jul 11, 2004)

Oh. Don't you think that's a bit excessive? Haha. I can't handle more than once a week. Are you doing HIIT?

Peace.


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## Jill (Jul 11, 2004)

More like interval training-1min intervals, pretty much the same. I have always been addicted to cardio


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## Premo55 (Jul 11, 2004)

I used to be. I used to do 400m sprints (5x each session) 4 days a week. Now I'm just a fat-ass.I still love lifting, at least.

Peace.


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## Vital Signs (Jul 11, 2004)

5-6 times a week is quite a lot..!  What does your daily diet consist of..?  You must be slamming some heavy-duty callories..!


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## mikah (Jul 11, 2004)

Do you have a journal Jill?
What are your stats?
What is your diet like?


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## dalila (Jul 12, 2004)

Hi Jill, 

When I was fighting to lose my excess kgs ( 25 in total), I found that if I ate very clean for a month I'd stop losing weight and then if I cheated ( but not with total junk) for a day or two, I'd suddenly start losing again.... it worked well in the end, I lost it all. Someone explained why this happens, earlier, I just know it works


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## Jenny (Jul 12, 2004)

It's tricky when you go too low, cause you have nowhere to go  Try cutting out some foods (such as dairy and bread) and replace it with better food sources. Don't know if that's in your diet or not though.. Refeeding works too


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## atherjen (Jul 12, 2004)

I ve been watching your diet Jilly and there doesnt seem much to tweak food-wise(as persay choices). 
Id suggest a carb up or cheat meal(w/dessert) . try it once a week, if you can handle that mentally and get right back on track.


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## Determination (Jul 12, 2004)

I'm stuck in the same situation I guess...I dropped calories entirely way too low for a couple of weeks a bit back. 

It's tricky because you can say your metabolism has slowed down too much, you can theorize about it, but it's not really something you can feel. But if you're like me and your energy levels were crap, then you know something's wrong.

Then I did a refeed, but when I got back on my diet, the drop in calories was too drastic so my energy levels crashed. I've felt like crap all week basically. 

Yesterday I had a cheat meal and my energy levels suddenly went up to normal. It was great, feeling NORMAL again...not drained. I went out and played basketball and I was fine besides all my extremely sore muscles, heh

Today I'm planning to go slightly above maintanace, eating whole wheat pasta, extra lean beef burger on a whole wheat bagel...not the cleanest stuff...but that's the point

I guess the key for me is watching my energy levels, and adjusting my calories regardless of what these damn formulas are telling me.

One of the benefits of eating 6 meals a day is supposed to be increased energy levels and a huge boost in metabolism. By dieting for too long or dropping are calories too much, we're achieving quite the opposite.

I've personally have been scared to just eat eat eat...it goes against what one might think to be common sense. 

"I haven't lost anything in like a month, how's eating all this food going to help me burn more?" is what my subconscious keeps asking

hey I've tried everything else...it's time to eat. 

After long periods of dieting, some people recommend even a full week of maintanace/slightly above maintance eating. 

I'm going to keep eating until I start feeling as energetic as I used to feel in the beginning...then I'm going to start dropping my calories at a very slow pace and see how it goes. 

In your case, doing so much cardio and having already been consuming a low level of calories...I think it's safe to say your metabolism could use a cheat meal and couple of days of maintance calories (if not more...in days and calories...I guess it's up to you to check how you're feeling and what you're comfortable with).


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## kim (Jul 12, 2004)

Hi Jill,

I don't know if it can help, but I have hit a kind of serious plateau for at least 5 weeks which I was getting very desesperate, so I decided and took 1 1/2 weeks brake of everything regarding training and regardings foods, well I ate more, not with all the junk foods, but I have to admitt that I treat my self.  When I came back in the gym after that brake and get back on track with my diet plan, well after a week I drop another 2 pounds of fat and since that, I'm still on my way for loosing 0.5 pounds to 1 pound a week.  I guess I have reset my metabolism and give a break to my body and I guess my body and mind appreciate it.  I don't know, but for me it's the way I have been able to broke my plateau.


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## Premo55 (Jul 12, 2004)

I think this is precisely what's great about carb cycling, you enver have to worry about leptin levels going to sub-optimal levels because it integrates refeeding into your weekly nutrition so you don't have to worry about it

Peace.


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## Jodi (Jul 12, 2004)

Anyone on a low carb diet needs to refeed.  If you don't your progress will always slow down.  Jill your cals are already low so please don't cut them anymore.


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## nikegurl (Jul 12, 2004)

jill - how low are your carbs on a daily basis?


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## Jill (Jul 12, 2004)

Thanks everyone for their advice, it really does mean a lot. I have a journal in the online journal section, Working on Me.

My carbs are between 110-130 a day NG. I know not to cut cals anymore Jodi (i certainly dont want to), but I am afraid of 'refeeding', mostly mentally-although I'd really love to do it. My weight has been the same for about a week. Am I just being paranoid? Or, should I give it another week?


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## JLB001 (Jul 12, 2004)

Jill don't cut the calories....you need to do a refeed like Jodi said.  Don't cut anything else.


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## SPIKE1257 (Jul 12, 2004)

Jill said:
			
		

> Thanks everyone for their advice, it really does mean a lot. I have a journal in the online journal section, Working on Me.
> 
> My carbs are between 110-130 a day NG. I know not to cut cals anymore Jodi (i certainly dont want to), but I am afraid of 'refeeding', mostly mentally-although I'd really love to do it. My weight has been the same for about a week. Am I just being paranoid? Or, should I give it another week?


I'M NEW TO THIS REFEEDING THING, BUT AREN'T YOU SUPPOSE TO KEEP THE CARBS TO LESS THEN 1 GRAM PER LB OF BODYWEIGHT WHEN TRYING TO DROP FAT ? HOW MUCH DO YOU WEIGH ? 130 GRAMS OF CARBS SEEMS A BIT MUCH. AND IF YOU AREN'T DOING CARDIO FIRST THING IN THE MORNING ON AN EMPTY STOMACH, YOU MAY WANT TO ADD IT AT LEAST 3 TIMES A WEEK. ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT WORKS FOR ME.


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## Jill (Jul 12, 2004)

Spike-I weigh more than 130 pounds.  I do cardio on an empty stomch if I can, other wise its ALWAYS after weights.

Jodie, you never really did re-feeds. Its only been 1 week that my weight hasnt changed, am I being silly? I will not drop cals either.


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## Jodi (Jul 12, 2004)

I don't want to interfere with your diet Jill but I just want to comment on a few things.

Competition dieting is not healthy.  Any of us dieting for a competition are putting our health and bodies as risk.  We skim just above starvation mode to push our bodies to lose those last few pounds.  Some, myself included, are often run down and force ourselves to get through each day.  I tend to feel ill more often when my cals are low as well so the body is constantly fighting.  Its very un-healthy and should not be intended as any everyday diet IMO.


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## JLB001 (Jul 12, 2004)

I didn't do a refeed the same as some people would.   Remember...sometimes when you hit a stand still you have to throw things into the mix that you may normally not have.  It can mess with the head a lil, but the benefits are there.   Jodi likes to do her refeeds with different foods than me.  Both work, just have to do it and see what happens. You'll feel fluffy for a few days, but then it will start dropping again.

Also stress in life and other things can factor into the weight not going down as well.  Wait  a week or so before adjusting anything, just don't take anything lower than it is.

And if it makes ya feel any better....since Saturday...I have added 10 lbs!      Salt and water makes me FLUFFYYYYYYYYYYYYY.


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## Premo55 (Jul 12, 2004)

Please do not do cardio first thing in the morning. One of the worst things you can do. Just my opinion, of course. Just cheat, Jill, go a week on maintenance and take time off the gym.

Peace.


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## rolNMH (Jul 12, 2004)

*The importance of low carb cycling*

Aloha Jill,
I have used a low carb diet for many years now for contest preparation or summer weight loss. It works, "so stick with it"! The main thing to remember is to constantly manipulate the body. It thrives on the ability to addpat to change. Do give it a chance to addapt to your low carb diet by having to many consecutive low carb days. Make sure you cylcle the low carb days with a high carb day every 3 - 4 days. On the high carb days, eat carbs wit every meal, (hopefully you're alerady consuming at least six a day). I hope this has been some help, you can find out more specifics at http://www.storesonline.com/site/764907/product/503-4469858 .

Roland
http://www.naturalmusclehawaii.net


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## Determination (Jul 12, 2004)

Jill said:
			
		

> Its only been 1 week that my weight hasnt changed, am I being silly? I will not drop cals either.



Well a week isn't bad at all, try a month plus! ha

If it's just a week, I would refeed for a couple of days, maybe 3. You'll feel "fatter," you'll probably be bloated and you'll stomach will make tons of noises like "what the hell is this stuff?, haven't had this in awhile, etc"

don't worry about it

in fact, make a note to actually ENJOY it. Make sure to stick a couple of cheat meals in there if you can. 

Once you get back in your diet, I would recommend making it a point to sticking a refeed day at least once a week. Eating clean still, but going up to maintance calories. Simply to prevent your body from going into starvation mode and slowing down your metabolism. This is actually known to rev up your metabolism even more.

Just recommendations from what I know. 

I sure am loving eating and feeling energetic again


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## SPIKE1257 (Jul 12, 2004)

Premo55 said:
			
		

> Please do not do cardio first thing in the morning. One of the worst things you can do. Just my opinion, of course. Just cheat, Jill, go a week on maintenance and take time off the gym.
> 
> Peace.


WHAT DO YOU BASE THIS OPINION ON ? ANY RESEARCH ?  ANYTHING DETRIMENTAL IN DOING CARDIO FIRST THING IN THE MORNING ? PLEASE SHARE YOUR KNOWLEDGE.


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## Premo55 (Jul 12, 2004)

^ Man, I just wrote a long-ass post about this the other day. Okay. Muscle is seen as useless to the body, right? Obviously your body wishes to get rid of muscle preferentially as opposed to fat, which is required for survival. As such you risk extreme catabolism when you do cardio frist thing in the morning when your body is hungry for nutrients. The punishment that HIIT inflicts on your CNS in general isnt' much fun first thing in the morning either.

That being said, if that's you in your avatar that is a ridiculous stomach. 

Peace.


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## Jill (Jul 12, 2004)

I only do cardio on an empty about once a week  Thanks again peeps, I think Im going to stay low carb for the next week, and see what my weight goes to. Jodie(s) i _may_ shoot for a refeed next week. My clothes ARE looser every few days so thats a good thing. I do defff look thinner too. I might up my protein just a bit too, to get some more cals in. 

The mental thing is what concerns me most-sat I had pizza and it bothered me for 2 days. I really would like a bagle with pb on it, or even some cream cheese. Ive just found it much easier to stay eating clean, rather then mess it up. Its my ' all or nothing' perfectionist trait that fucks with me.

I also have no stress either! Really!


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## nikegurl (Jul 12, 2004)

you may already be doing this...but i'd suggest taking measurements in addition to using the scale.  for instance - if the scale stays the same but your hips and waist got smaller - you can safely conclude you've lost fat.

hang in there


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## Jill (Jul 12, 2004)

Your sweet NG-I havent taken measurements since Jan when I was fatter, and today just for the fun of it it did a few. (and compared them) They have went down, in more places than I wanted them to!!


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## Premo55 (Jul 12, 2004)

Well Jill, if you look and feel like you're losing fat, then I don't see what you're worried about. You may be miraculously gaining LBM.

Peace.


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## SPIKE1257 (Jul 12, 2004)

Premo55 said:
			
		

> ^ Man, I just wrote a long-ass post about this the other day. Okay. Muscle is seen as useless to the body, right? Obviously your body wishes to get rid of muscle preferentially as opposed to fat, which is required for survival. As such you risk extreme catabolism when you do cardio frist thing in the morning when your body is hungry for nutrients. The punishment that HIIT inflicts on your CNS in general isnt' much fun first thing in the morning either.
> 
> That being said, if that's you in your avatar that is a ridiculous stomach.
> 
> Peace.


OPINIONS VARY.... :


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## JLB001 (Jul 12, 2004)

Jill...eat the bagel with PB.  But only buy one bagel not a whole package, that way you won't want to eat the whole bag.  

Premo....cardio on an empty tummy really varies by person.  Myself I do cardio on an empty tummy and never lost LBM.  Myself, I believe if you are eatting quality foods as protein sources it shouldn't matter much.  After doing cardio this way for two years of contest prep., I have lost very little muscle from am cardio.


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## Paynne (Jul 12, 2004)

Trust in the Jodis.  I bet if you did a refeed you'd lose a pound next week.  You're damn sexy already so what could it hurt?


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## carbchick (Jul 12, 2004)

Jill I know how you feel - after the cheat, the deluge. but you need to try to get your head around a bigger calorie day and to learn how to do it safely and to trust yourself. Easy to say, SOOOO tough to do, I KNOW and you know I know. Plan a higher cal day, tell yourself it is for your own good, work out the macros, eat them, and then go back to baseline. Bagel if you wish, Clean foods if easier to handle. Arm yourself with the knowledge and awareness before you do it. Cut out the emotional aspect by regarding it as 'inputs' and 'results' - a scientific experiment. 
good luck girl and keep us posted


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## JLB001 (Jul 12, 2004)

I ate 3/4 of a LARGE thin crust cheese pizza from Pizza Hut.  (only 2 slices left)

And...no, I do not feel guilty!


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## Jill (Jul 12, 2004)

3/4 of a pizza? WOW, I thought 4 pieces of a medium sized one was lots!  You really do have an apetite girl!

I know i know Carbchick. Next week I think I may have a higher carb day. Mentally is deff the hardest, especially since its been sort of a life long problem, me and ed.


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## JLB001 (Jul 12, 2004)

It was thin thin crust...easy to do.  LOL


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## Jodi (Jul 12, 2004)

LMAO - I wonder which Jodi(e) could eat more in 1 sitting  

I have healthy appetite too Jodie


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## JLB001 (Jul 12, 2004)

I think we could give each a run for the money.  LOL

Hell a large thin crust pizza is only a small deep dish pan all rolled out thin.


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## Premo55 (Jul 12, 2004)

I can out-eat anyone on this board. I think. 

Peace.


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## JLB001 (Jul 12, 2004)

Craig does a large pan pizza on his own.


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## Premo55 (Jul 12, 2004)

I think I could manage that. I just don't know if my stomach would for the next day or so, though.

Peace.


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## Jenny (Jul 12, 2004)

Jill, don't worry, it's only been a week  Plus, you cheated on Sat, the water weight could still mess with you  Don't get obsessed about the scale again missy  And try to mentally prepare yourself for refeeding and separating that from bingeing before doing it


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## DrChiro (Jul 13, 2004)

I ordred a large papa johns pizza about 5 months ago and they informed me they were having a special: 2 larges for the price of one...so I said...bring it on!

i ate them both in about 3 hours time while at work....it was not a good day after that...i could barely move....but pizza is so damn good!


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## JLB001 (Jul 13, 2004)




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## jaim91 (Jul 14, 2004)

JLB001 said:
			
		

> I ate 3/4 of a LARGE thin crust cheese pizza from Pizza Hut.  (only 2 slices left)
> 
> And...no, I do not feel guilty!



I do that about once a week, but the pizza is from Domino's. I find that if whenever you're hungry for carbs, you find something in your fridge or cabinet that has protein in it, and satiates you until your next meal. I eat about triple my weight in protein once a week...


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## jaim91 (Jul 14, 2004)

Premo55 said:
			
		

> I can out-eat anyone on this board. I think.
> 
> Peace.



BRING IT ON!


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## Jill (Jul 14, 2004)

Craig, your appetitie is crazzzzzzzzyyyyyyy!!!!  You remind me of my bf Steve. If the two of you got together, you could do some serious 'food' damage. Me and Jodie would of course join ya!


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## P-funk (Jul 14, 2004)

Premo55 said:
			
		

> I can out-eat anyone on this board. I think.
> 
> Peace.




you are on  





> Please do not do cardio first thing in the morning. One of the worst things you can do. Just my opinion, of course. Just cheat, Jill, go a week on maintenance and take time off the gym.



That depends on a lot of things.  Do a search in the training forum on this topic and use my name or Johhny's name.  I posted a number of referenced articles and studies that would disagree with your statment big time.




> Competition dieting is not healthy. Any of us dieting for a competition are putting our health and bodies as risk. We skim just above starvation mode to push our bodies to lose those last few pounds. Some, myself included, are often run down and force ourselves to get through each day. I tend to feel ill more often when my cals are low as well so the body is constantly fighting. Its very un-healthy and should not be intended as any everyday diet IMO.



I agree


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## Jill (Jul 14, 2004)

Thanks P-Funk. I will do a search. I really only do empty stomach cardio 1X a week-the rest of the week I do my cardio after weights, always.


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## Akateros (Jul 14, 2004)

P-funk said:
			
		

> That depends on a lot of things.  Do a search in the training forum on this topic and use my name or Johhny's name.  I posted a number of referenced articles and studies that would disagree with your statment big time.


 
That was worth the search.


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## Jill (Jul 15, 2004)

Im doing cardio 5-6X a week. 45-60 mins after weights. Once a week am on an empty. Should I reduce my cardio??


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## LAM (Jul 15, 2004)

Jill said:
			
		

> Im doing cardio 5-6X a week. 45-60 mins after weights. Once a week am on an empty. Should I reduce my cardio??



Why are you not doing HIIT cardio ?


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## Determination (Jul 17, 2004)

You know...I started thinking of cardio and how people say it can destroy your hard earned muscle and all of that

but isn't that simply a bunch of crap? 

The only way that can happen is if you're not eating enough. Both cardio and eating frequent meals boost metabolism. Doing both along with weight training only work towards that in synergistic fashion. If your metabolism slows down along with your fatloss and you start experiencing LBM loss

Then your caloric deficit is just too low...we tend to not conpensate for the calories cardio burns thinking doing that would cancel each out...but in reality they work to boost our metabolism even further. This applies on a calorie deficit or surplus. The tendency ends up being dropping our calories too low (which seems to have happened in this case, and in mine as well) with the thought of speeding up fat loss

but it only works to slow it down...and our metabolism...and our muscle gains which may even turn into muscle loss

People go and blame it on cardio when in reality they're just not eating enough. 

Saying cardio can destroy your hard earned muscle seems to be no more relevant than saying weight lifting can lead to overtraining.


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## aztecwolf (Jul 17, 2004)

Premo55 said:
			
		

> I can out-eat anyone on this board. I think.
> 
> Peace.


i'd take you up on that challenge premo, i have a little kobiyashi in me, i would seriously enter eating contest if i didn't have to gorge on hot dogs and the like


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## aztecwolf (Jul 17, 2004)

Determination said:
			
		

> You know...I started thinking of cardio and how people say it can destroy your hard earned muscle and all of that
> 
> but isn't that simply a bunch of crap?
> 
> ...


i was actually just thinking about that a couple of hours ago, i mean say i eat 2,500 cals and expend 2,000 cals of energy, i will have a surplus of 500 cals, now say i eat 3,500 cals and expend 3,000 cals of energy(xtra cardio)
I eat like this for one week and theoretically i should gain 1 lb.  So in the first week where i ate only 2,500 cals i would gain more muscle/burn less muscle and therefore gain less fat compared to the week i ate 3,500 cals i would gain less muscle and even possibly burn muscle/ therefore gain more fat?
I just don't see how that makes any sense.


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## jaim91 (Jul 18, 2004)

Only if you do too much cardio, and start depleting your muscle stores rather than your glycogen and fat stores will you destroy your hard earned muscle.


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## Determination (Jul 18, 2004)

Ronnie Coleman on cardio:

_Should you do cardio only precontest, or is it important to do cardio off-season to control bodyfat levels?_ 

RC: *I do 45 minutes of moderately intense cardio activity four days a week, even when I'm not training for a contest, alternating between the stair-stepper, treadmill and bike. A lot of people think cardio makes you shrink, but cardio can actually gain muscle. Think about it: The more cardio you do, the more you'll want to eat, the more nutrients your body will have at its disposal for growth. Cardio will only make you shrink if you don't eat enough food or if you eat foods with poor nutritional value. Doing cardio certainly burns calories, but if you're eating enough of the right foods, the losses will be nearly all bodyfat, leaving you leaner and meaner all year round.*

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Of course one can take this to the extreme and do too much...per se, you eat every 3 hours and you do 1.5 hours of cardio between each meal. That's just idiotic and I don't see how one could blame cardio for muscle loss.


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## madden player (Jul 18, 2004)

Jill said:
			
		

> What do you do when your weight hasnt dropped in a while, and your cals are already low?? Cut em even more??? OR, is it normal to hit a weight loss plateau for a while, and to just get past it, and then the weight will drop after that?


Your body is probally in what is called a "metabolic slowdown" state.  Cutting your calories more would mean that your metabolism will eventually slow down again in response and you will hit another weight loss plateau.

You should stay at your maintanence calorie intake level and focus on building a little more lean mass.  Just a couple ounces of muscle is enough to fire up the metabolism enough to burn that fat that hasn't been dropping off.

You DON'T want to drop your calories anymore if they are already low.


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