# Anavar alternative?



## HeavyB (Apr 2, 2014)

That sums it up any alternative to anavar read tbol.. I like to run 100mg ED of anavar and it is very expensive to run like that very long.  Not looking for dirt cheap but something little most cost effective.  I have ran Tren A and like that cycle this is more for a bridge when I come off the Tren a/Tren E/ Test P run.


----------



## BIGBEN2011 (Apr 2, 2014)

yea and all so because var hurts my belly i think it has lactose in it from what i read idk why it does. i love the results i get with var but hate how much it cost and how it hurts my belly.


----------



## Lost Grizzly (Apr 2, 2014)

I have considered Var but know it is high $ and one of the most faked out there.  So I am all ears on this thread as to what would be a good choice in place of Var.


----------



## mr.buffman (Apr 2, 2014)

Yea it does get a bit pricey I was thinking of using sum winny with my test prop npp cycle to save sum money.


----------



## TapDaddy (Apr 2, 2014)

Dbol and arimedex


----------



## dieseljimmy (Apr 2, 2014)

Tbol is the best viable option. 

Masteron is a option if your ready to dry out


----------



## theCaptn' (Apr 2, 2014)

Stanazol also works, it's just not very kind on joints or lipids


----------



## HeavyB (Apr 2, 2014)

theCaptn' said:


> Stanazol also works, it's just not very kind on joints or lipids



Would deca prevent the joint problem?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## exerciseordie (Apr 2, 2014)

Tbol and winny are two good optiona


----------



## heavyiron (Apr 2, 2014)

Winny, same dose


----------



## mr.buffman (Apr 2, 2014)

So would the npp/deca help when winny dries out your joints?? I got sum AY tbol, can't wait to use it.


----------



## BIGBEN2011 (Apr 3, 2014)

yea i am running 100mg a day of winny and a low dose of npp and i am having no joint problems at all.


----------



## Mike Arnold (Apr 5, 2014)

Don't forget M-sten. Yes, M-sten. Too often, if someone asks for a Var alternative or poses a similar question, you are typically going to hear guys spout out drugs like T-bol, Winstrol, Masteron, etc. No doubt, all of those drugs provide hard, dry gains, but they also have another thing in common with Var--they all suck for mass gains. Look guys, we are no longer living in an age where you have to choose between big & bloated or small & dry. We now have steroids available which will provide the hardening an drying effects of the weaker muscle-builders like var, Mast, winny, etc...while also proving the muscle gains of Anadrol and D-bol. 

If you want to stay hard and dry, but you don't really have a preference on what drug you use, why not choose the drug which will also provide excellent muscle gains along with it? Or, would you rather be small, hard, an dry...rather than big, hard, and dry? If you would rather be small, hard, and dry, choose T-bol or Masteron...but if you want to be as big & strong as ossible, while also being hard & dry...then do NOT choose those drugs.

M-sten will harden you up and dry you out similar to a drug like Var, but it will build 5X the muscle mass. If you look at the drug itself...it makes perfect sense. M-sten is a DHT derivative just like Var, Winstrol, and Masteron. It can't aromatize either, just like those drugs. Those 2 factors alone are strong indicators that M-Sten will make you hard & dry, but we don't need t rely on guesswork...because we have lots of guys out there who have shared their real-world experience, including myself. The fact is that M-Sten is just as good of a pre-contest drug as many other non-armatizing, DHT derived drugs. 

However, the PRIMARY difference between a drug like M-sten and those previously mentioned AAS is that M-sten kicks the shit out of all of them for muscle growth & strength gains. Yes guys it IS possible for a steroid to provide the best of both worlds....and people are finding this out every day. The terms "cutter" and mass-builder" are quickly becoming outdated, as there are just too many drugs around these days which accomplish both goals at once. Now, 20 years ago the only drug which was capable of doing this was Trebolone, but not anymore. 

So, unless you have a particular reason for wanting to choose a cutting drug which provides weak muscle building benefits, why not use something that will build significant size & strength, as well?


----------



## jshel12 (Apr 5, 2014)

Good info Mike. Is M-sten more toxic than winny, t-bol, or mast.  I remember I bought some superdrol thinking it could never be really harsh since it was legal at time.  Less than 3 weeks in my blood pressure went higher than it ever went before and I developed 5 blood clots all in same vein on my forearm.  Needless to say M-sten sounds like an interesting option to add to my test tren cycle that im starting once I get bloodwork back in about 6 weeks.  I just mainly want to know if its tough on the kidneys and what would a good dosage and legnth be if adding it a 10 week cycle of test E 300mgs a week and tren E 400 mgs a week.  Thanks again for any info you could provide since I never used M-sten.


----------



## jshel12 (Apr 5, 2014)

And yes I did read the M-sten product description. I just don't want to start taking a really harsh product and have to stop.  I tolerate tren and winny pretty well, but superdrol just did not agree with me, was hoping this was a little easiar on the body.


----------



## Mike Arnold (Apr 5, 2014)

Lots of guys had issues with SD, but in all fairness, it was not all SD's fault.  There was a LOT of shit SD out there, which was poorly manufactured and contained either different isomers of the drug or various pollutants.  There is no doubt that some of the available brands did NOT contain pure SD.  Pure SD was much less likely to make people feel like shit than the pure versions.  I experienced this myself many times...and few people have more experience with SD than myself, with more than 20 cycles under my belt..  Pure SD makes you big, hard, and dry, and very strong.  Some poilluted version caused water retention and made guys feel horrible. As far as how it affected BP, it varies.  Some guys had issues and others didn't, but the polluted versions which caused water retention were much more likely to cause BP issues than pure versions of the drug.

As far as M-sten goes, it is much less prone to side effects than SD is, from a "how do you feel" perspective.  In terms of the kidneys, what many people don't understand is that steroids themselves do not cause much kidney stress.  They can cause some direct stress, but any kidney issues which develop are primarily due to high blood pressure--a potential, indirect effect of AAS use.  M-sten is not known for being problematic in this regard, although any AAS can technically increase BP.  Personal response also plays a big role in whyether or not a steroid will elevate BP.  M-sten seems to be about average in terms of BP issues.  Personally, it does not increase my BP at all, or if it does it is only by a few points, literally.

If BP is an issue for you with steroids in general, there are many things you can do to control it.  Adbanced Cycle Support is a GREAT products for managing BP.  It contains multiple clinically validated compounds, at clinical dosages, for controlling BP.  Hawthorne is one of the best, which is also included in ASC.  Of course, ACS alos contains multiple liver detoxifying compounds, which again, have been clinically validated.  many guys have used drugs like M-sten with ASC and both BP and liver enzymes experienced little to no elevation at all--that is impressive.  I always use cycle support.  There just isn't a good reason not to, especially for those guys who regularly use AAS.

So, the bottom line is that M-sten does not increase BP more than average, with many people experiencing little to no increase.  For those that are more prone to experiencing BP issues, the inclusion of ACS can largely eliminate that problem.  I think you would really like it...and I can gaurantee that your gains would far surpass what you would achieve with Anavar, Masteron, or Winstrol.  A 6 week cycle at 30 mg daily is a very solid cycle.  Personally, I would run it the last 6 weeks of the cycle, which will enable you to finish your cycle looking your very best, but you can also kick of your cycle with it, as well.  However, keep in mind that if you begin with it for the first 6 weeks, you will likely notice a decrease in muscle fullness, overall size, and possibly even strength levels after you go off.  You won't lose any actual muscle fiber because you will continue using other steroids, but there will be a little lag period were you probably won't look as good for a couple weeks.  That's because the drug produced powerful effects, so naturally, when you stop taking it those effects go away.


----------



## jorjorbinx (Apr 5, 2014)

any body help me out and tell me what ASC is 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


----------



## HeavyB (Apr 5, 2014)

What dosage on the m-sten that compares to the anavar 100mg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## theCaptn' (Apr 5, 2014)

The SD in the original SDMZ was awesome!


----------



## irish viking (Apr 6, 2014)

acs.....advanced cycle support.
I usd m ten before and liked it ,great feeling of wellbeing and alpha male,good product.
depending on your size ....I ran 40mg and boom


----------



## jorjorbinx (Apr 6, 2014)

irish viking said:


> acs.....advanced cycle support.
> I usd m ten before and liked it ,great feeling of wellbeing and alpha male,good product.
> depending on your size ....I ran 40mg and boom



yes your right but he said asc...  maybe a typo multiple times? 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


----------



## jshel12 (Apr 6, 2014)

Mike Arnold said:


> Lots of guys had issues with SD, but in all fairness, it was not all SD's fault. There was a LOT of shit SD out there, which was poorly manufactured and contained either different isomers of the drug or various pollutants. There is no doubt that some of the available brands did NOT contain pure SD. Pure SD was much less likely to make people feel like shit than the pure versions. I experienced this myself many times...and few people have more experience with SD than myself, with more than 20 cycles under my belt.. Pure SD makes you big, hard, and dry, and very strong. Some poilluted version caused water retention and made guys feel horrible. As far as how it affected BP, it varies. Some guys had issues and others didn't, but the polluted versions which caused water retention were much more likely to cause BP issues than pure versions of the drug.
> 
> As far as M-sten goes, it is much less prone to side effects than SD is, from a "how do you feel" perspective. In terms of the kidneys, what many people don't understand is that steroids themselves do not cause much kidney stress. They can cause some direct stress, but any kidney issues which develop are primarily due to high blood pressure--a potential, indirect effect of AAS use. M-sten is not known for being problematic in this regard, although any AAS can technically increase BP. Personal response also plays a big role in whyether or not a steroid will elevate BP. M-sten seems to be about average in terms of BP issues. Personally, it does not increase my BP at all, or if it does it is only by a few points, literally.
> 
> ...



Thanks. Blood pressure is always 120/80 or lower so not an issue.  Only issues I had were proteinuria, which has gone from low-moderate to trace amounts to sometimes zero and high hemoglobin, in which case i lowered cruise dose from 300 to 180 and donated blood.  So I think ill add in last 6 weeks of my cycle and see how it goes.


----------



## SuperLift (Apr 6, 2014)

Mike after this post and the other thread you started talking about M-sten, I think I'm ready to give it a go myself!


----------



## HeavyB (Apr 7, 2014)

Any discount out there for it. I saw the 20% pm from prince just wondering if a bigger discount out for it.


----------



## Bigjim5 (Apr 7, 2014)

20% is a nice discount.  It comes to like $130 for 4 bottles.  That is a sweet deal for a great product.


----------



## jorjorbinx (Apr 7, 2014)

if your an elite member you may get more off

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


----------



## BIGBEN2011 (Apr 7, 2014)

hey mike what is out now that is like epistane that prohormone did me really well anavar and winny results for me when i took epi but it has been a while.


----------



## HeavyB (Apr 7, 2014)

jorjorbinx said:


> if your an elite member you may get more off
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


Yep I am elite member. I will see I can figure it out. I see can get 3 bottle and 1 free that would be a killer deal just dont know how well it works and how well I can tolerate it.


----------



## jay_steel (Apr 7, 2014)

what are your goals first because only reason why i waste my money on var is prep. If your looking for a good way to tighten up and be full EQ/NPP. Great gains fullness and size is awesome. I also love to take Mast and Dbol or Dbol and Proviron with Test. But Proviron is expensive to and so is Tbol. My Tbol was costing all most as my var was because it was 20mg tbol and I was taking 60mg. If your looking for a good budget cycle.

300 deca
750 test
800 eq
kick start 30mg dbol 4 weeks
12.5 aromasin 

do that with a solid diet and your gains will be amazing. Keep water high while on dbol with high sodium then taper your sodium lower, but still there dont go low sodium and just wanted the water weight fall off.


----------



## HeavyB (Apr 7, 2014)

Hey JS 
My goals are to drop BF and gain my size back. I had back surgery in Feb and bout ready to get back at it. I gained some belly fat and lost my size. 
This is my cycle i am planning on running starting May 1
I may run up to 3mths on the cycle 90days
Tren A 50mg ED 
Tren E 100mg ED  run this for about 40days at the start of the cycle.
Test Prop 50mg ED
T3   100mcg ED  Running 50 mcg first and last week.
Tadalafil    15mg ED 
Exemestane 12.5 mg ED 
Caber Still researching the dosage.. First time taking it.

Below this i thought about adding
Deca  Was thinking about 125mg EW for my joints
EQ     Never ran it before not sure if good mix in this cycle or not.
ANADROL ?  I got some coming actually never ran it before
I also have some mast but i am too fat for it right now.. It I can get the BF low enough I was going to run Mast and Test cyp.
When i come off I will go to running 500mg test cyp EW then back to 250mg EW this is when I was adding the var in as a bridge. 

Let me know if you think on the cycle and if i should add anything too it.


----------



## brickshthouse79 (May 5, 2014)

BIGBEN2011 said:


> yea and all so because var hurts my belly i think it has lactose in it from what i read idk why it does. i love the results i get with var but hate how much it cost and how it hurts my belly.



It bothers my stomach as well and I am also lactose intolerant.  Never considered the possibility of lactose in it.


----------



## heavyiron (May 5, 2014)

HeavyB said:


> What dosage on the m-sten that compares to the anavar 100mg
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


M-STEN is strong as fuck. Not sure how to compare the 2 but I would guess M-STEN is 5 times stronger mg for mg than var.


----------



## SuperLift (May 5, 2014)

Day 1 of MSten


----------



## HeavyB (May 6, 2014)

heavyiron said:


> M-STEN is strong as fuck. Not sure how to compare the 2 but I would guess M-STEN is 5 times stronger mg for mg than var.



What daily dosage do you recommend?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mike Arnold (May 6, 2014)

heavyiron said:


> M-STEN is strong as fuck. Not sure how to compare the 2 but I would guess M-STEN is 5 times stronger mg for mg than var.



Sounds about right to me.


----------



## Mike Arnold (May 6, 2014)

HeavyB said:


> What daily dosage do you recommend?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



20-40 mg/day.

20 mg will provide good gains in less exprienced AAS users. Expect hard, dry gains.

Higher dosages will provide the same basic effects, but greater growth.


----------



## robertscott (May 6, 2014)

Mike Arnold said:


> 20-40 mg/day.
> 
> 20 mg will provide good gains in less exprienced AAS users. Expect hard, dry gains.
> 
> Higher dosages will provide the same basic effects, but greater growth.



you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention.

What's the half life?  Would you split doses or just take it all pre-workout?


----------



## robertscott (May 7, 2014)

fuck it, I'm sold on the idea.  3 weeks of M sten at 30mg at the end of the cycle I'm running.  Go out with a bang.


----------



## raysd21 (May 7, 2014)

I'd just run test and proviron that is a great bridge.


----------



## rambo99 (May 7, 2014)

Msten sounds promising.  Will have to give it a try, thanks for the info mike.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


----------



## blergs. (May 7, 2014)

M-Sten is a good one for sure!
I would say tbol or msten. mten i think is stronger.
I love me some var though:- P


----------



## SuperLift (May 7, 2014)

I'm on day 3 at 20mg. Will be bumping it do 30 and then 40. Thanks for the info!


----------



## Mike Arnold (May 7, 2014)

robertscott said:


> you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention.
> 
> What's the half life? Would you split doses or just take it all pre-workout?



Definitely split it up.  

If taking 20 mg daily, split it up into 2 caps daily--one in the AM and one in the PM.  If 3 times daily--one in the AM, one at mid-day, and one in the PM.


----------



## robertscott (May 8, 2014)

Mike Arnold said:


> Definitely split it up.
> 
> If taking 20 mg daily, split it up into 2 caps daily--one in the AM and one in the PM.  If 3 times daily--one in the AM, one at mid-day, and one in the PM.



shall do, thanks for the help


----------



## CooperT (May 8, 2014)

keep us updated on your progress, been looking at finishing with m/sten myself


----------

