# AndroLean v3 is FINALLY HERE -- Powerful Anabolic, Belly Fat Destroyer



## HereToStudy (Jul 11, 2012)

IM members,



The 3rd generation of AndroLean is here -- AndroLean v3




Building a lean, muscular physique is virtually impossible without sufficient androgen levels. AndroLean v3 delivers the strongest legal androgens found in the human body -- which pushes blood levels past the ?androgen threshold? for leaner, denser muscles. 




Our first AndroLean v3 tester, Tomas P, lost 5% body fat and gained 6lbs of lean mass in only 8 weeks -- with nearly zero side-effects. See the progress pictures here -


Tomas P. - AndroLean - download case report


How is AndroLean so effective?


?    *Highly Dosed* - Contains the highest dose of androgens found in any natural androgen product
?    *Highly Anabolic* -Super 11-DHEA & Super 7-DHEA is highly anabolic and minimally androgenic for more muscle and less side effects.
?    *Highly Absorbable* - Bypasses the liver and increases blood androgen levels for nearly 24hrs 



What are the active ingredients?


The androgens in AndroLean include -


*Super-11-DHEA & Super-7-DHEA* - These natural 'oxygenated' androgens inhibit 11b-HSD1 by attaching to the 11b-HSD1 enzyme, 
deactivating the conversion of cortisone into cortisol. These fat destroying androgens will fight stubborn belly fat while safely building quality muscle mass. (4-12)




Together, these androgens mimic the power of true injectable testosterone _without the androgenic side effects_ -- with a bioequivalence of 300mg/week injectable testosterone enanthate -- so you can make serious gains_ without_ breaking the law. (39-50)




*From a baseline of 500ng/dl total androgen activity level.



AndroLean = More Permanent Gains


Results from AndroLean are generally higher quality compared to methylated oral steroids -- making the gains easier to _maintain_, and _longer lasting_.




Methylated compounds such as _superdrol, epistane, halodrol, dimethazine,_ etc., cause a rapid uptake of ionic fluid in the first 3-5 days leading to the rapid onset of muscular pumps, strength and weight gain. However, this fluid retention is rapidly lost after the cycle and gains are difficult to keep. (1) 




The best results from AndroLean are often seen after 3-4 weeks when the development of new myoblasts (muscle fibers) begin to take shape, and fat cells begin to shrink. (54-59) The development of muscle fibers and increased number of nuclei is a long-term benefit that is more easily maintained for many months or years. (54,55) Users of AndroLean report nearly 75% retention of gains, even 8 weeks after discontinuing their cycle. (39-50)


Even extreme reduction in body fat is a long-term benefit that stays long after discontinuation of AndroLean with continued diet and exercise. 






The results from AndroLean are dramatic and noticeable when complemented with heavy lifting and a high protein diet.


AndroLean will produce noticeable effects quickly.


Effects after 1-2 weeks ?


*?    Tighter muscles
?    Increased endurance
?    Reduced bloat *


... And then after 3-4 weeks ?


*?    1-3lb lean mass increase
?    Increased muscle definition
?    Leaner mid-section 
*


AndroLean = Less Side-Effects


AndroLean was painstakingly optimized to bring maximum results with minimal side-effects -- it?s unlike anything on the market.


Side-effects from AndroLean are mild, temporary, and usually completely unnoticed by users. Some men may even notice improved general health while supplementing with AndroLean, since low androgen (testosterone) levels can lead to diabetes, obesity, heart disease, and depression. (60-62)










AndroLean = Easy Recovery


A rapid and complete recovery of natural testosterone production, ensures the maximum gain retention.


Users of methylated orals and injectable steroids often struggle from a prolonged recovery, due to the highly suppressive nature of these types of steroids. (35-36) Recovery from these compounds can take months, or even years. (35-38) This makes it extremely difficult to maintain gains, sex-life, and mental health.


AndroLean has one MAJOR advantage over the alternative -


*24hr Release - Mimics the body?s natural rhythm*_(LH & FSH secretion_)
The single daily dose of AndroLean rises and falls within a 24 hour period. This ensures levels fall back to ?pre-dose? levels every 24 hours, allowing natural testosterone production to be stimulated. This prevents testicular shrinkage, shutdown and prolonged recovery. (63,64)




Since AndroLean contains only androgens naturally produced by the body, they are easily metabolized and cleared from the body -- This allows users of AndroLean to fully recover in 30 days or less.



AndroLean = Superior Delivery


AndroLean utilizes the new Liqua-Vade 24HR Delivery technology -


*?    Highly Bioavailable*- Fat soluble androgens absorb up to 98% and bypass the liver
*?    Highly Reliable* - Maximum absorption is not dependant on food intake
*?    Highly Convenient* - Only ONE daily dose required for 24hr timed release of androgens 




We accomplished ultra-high bioavailability by utilizing fat soluble ?fatty ester? hormones which are absorbed by the ?fat uptake? (lymphatic) system, seen here -










AndroLean = Cost Effective




When priced against the nearest competition, AndroLean is at least 200-1000% more cost effective. 




In fact, we encourage you to compare for yourself. Plus, consider the things you DON?T need with AndroLean -


*?    Liver, kidney, or blood pressure support
?    Little blue pills to keep "things working"
?    Harsh "research grade" PCT drugs
?    Needles & sterilization* 






Primordial Performance = The #1 Source for Androgens




Primordial Performance is the industry leader in natural androgen supplements for men. Since 2006 our mission has been clear -- maximize the male hormone environment without compromising health. Our products are backed by thousands of positive reviews, success stories, and detailed case reports.


We take responsibility for our customers and take pride in the following - 
*?    Most Trusted* - Established industry leader since 2006 with an ?A? reliability rating by the BBB
*?    Exceptional Quality* - 100% purity & identity testing
*?    Knowledgeable Staff* - Hormone specialists available from 9-5pm PST (Email/Chat)
*?    Industry Innovator* - Nearly 100% of profits are reinvested into future R&D 



Order Now = Get Started Tomorrow


It can be difficult or nearly impossible to make progress to your physique with low androgen levels. If you are tired of being stuck in a plateau, take action now -- and give your body what it needs to take your progress to the next level.




Remember, AndroLean gives you -


*?    Proven Safety* - Extensive in-house blood data confirms exceptional safety profile (65)
*?    Proven Effectiveness* - Average 3lb lean mass, and 3% reduction in body fat in only 8 weeks 
*?    Proven Natural & Legal* - Non-toxic naturally occurring androgens are found in the food supply 






If quality, safety, and effectiveness are important to you -- AndroLean is your #1 choice.




Head over to primordialperformance.com and order AndroLean now








Thank you for your support.




Eric Potratz 
Primordial Founder & President








Questions?




Phone ? 1-503-841-6702
Email - info@primordialperformance.com
9am-11pm PST Live Chat - Primordial Performance Live Support
Visit - primordialperformance.com




Primordial Performance LLC
13331 NE Whitaker Way
Portland OR 97230
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21. Extra-adrenal regeneration of glucocorticoids by 11beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 1: physiological regulator and pharmacological target for energy partitioning.
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26-38. Ignore


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41. Testosterone Threshold Levels and Lean Tissue Mass Targets Needed to Enhance Skeletal Muscle Strength and Function: The HORMA Trial.
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42. Conversion of androsterone ester to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) -- with 10 hour pharmacokinetics
Draws performed by AnyLabTestNow, 714 SW Washington St, Portland, OR 97205 ,  July 2011.
Analysis performed by S.E.D. Medical Laboratories.
(Contact Primordial Performance for full report)


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J Biol Chem. 1964 Mar;239:766-72. No abstract available
46. Direct agonist/antagonist functions of dehydroepiandrosterone.
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47. Serum androgen bioactivity during 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone treatment in elderly men.
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48. In vitro bioassays for androgens and their diagnostic applications.
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Hum Reprod Update. 2008 Jan-Feb;14(1):73-82. Epub 2007 Dec 4.


49. Determination of androgen bioactivity in human serum samples using a recombinant cell based in vitro bioassay.
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J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2006 Sep; 101(1):68-77. Epub 2006 Aug 8.


50. Circulating bioactive androgens in midlife women.
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J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Nov;91(11):4387-94. Epub 2006 Aug 29.


51. Partial agonist/antagonist properties of androstenedione and 4-androsten-3beta,17beta-diol.
Chen Fet al.
J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2004 Aug;91(4-5):247-57.


52. Delta-4-androstene-3,17-dione binds androgen receptor, promotes myogenesis in vitro, and increases serum testosterone levels, fat-free mass, and muscle strength in hypogonadal men.
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J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Feb;90(2):855-63. Epub 2004 Nov 2.


53. In vivo MRI evaluation of anabolic steroid precursor growth effects in a guinea pig model.
Tang H, et al
Steroids. 2009 Aug;74(8):684-93. Epub 2009 Mar 20.
54. Strength Training and Anabolic Steroids
Anders Eriksson, et al.
University Medical Dissertations (2006)


55. Myonuclei acquired by overload exercise precede hypertrophy and are not lost on detraining.
Bruusgaard JC. et al.
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2010 Aug 24;107(34):15111-6. Epub 2010 Aug 16.


56. Androgen-mediated improvement of body composition and muscle function involves a novel early transcriptional program including IGF1, mechano growth factor, and induction of {beta}-catenin.
Gentile, M.A. et al.
J. Mol. Endocrinol. 44, 55?73 (2010)


57. Effects of anabolic steroids on the muscle cells of strength-trained athletes.
Kadi F, et al.
Med Sci Sports Exerc 31:1528?1534. (1999)


58. Testosterone-induced increase in muscle size in healthy young men is associated with muscle fiber hypertrophy.
Sinha-Hikim I, et al.
Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 283:E154?E164 (2002)


59. Stimulation of both estrogen and androgen receptors maintains skeletal muscle mass in gonadectomized male mice but mainly via different pathways.
Svensson J, et al.
J Mol Endocrinol. 2010 Jul;45(1):45-57. Epub 2010 Apr 30.


60. The male climacterium: clinical signs and symptoms of a changing endocrine environment.
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Prostate Suppl. 2000;10:2-8.


61. Correlates of low testosterone and symptomatic androgen deficiency in a population-based sample.
Hall SA, et al.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2008 Oct;93(10):3870-7. Epub 2008 Jul 29.


62. Hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis disruptions in older men are differentially linked to age and modifiable risk factors: the European Male Aging Study.
Wu FC, et al.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2008 Jul;93(7):2737-45. Epub 2008 Feb 12.
63. Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression
Andrea D. Coviello, et al
J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., May 2005; 90: 2595 ? 2602.


64. Effect of long term deprivation of luteinizing hormone on Leydig cell volume, Leydig cell number, and steroidogenic capacity of the rat testis.
Keeney DS, et al.
Endocrinology 1988; 123:2906-2915.
65. Based on comparison to "natural androgen" based supplements, including 4-DHEA, 1-DHEA, 11-DHEA, androsterone, and epiandrosterone products.


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## HereToStudy (Jul 12, 2012)

Reps have coupons for AndroLean, hit us up.

BTW, I forgot to link to the case report above. It can be found here: AndroSeries v3 Case Reports


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## ryansm (Jul 13, 2012)

Currently have a logger running it with test


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## HereToStudy (Jul 13, 2012)

ryansm said:


> Currently have a logger running it with test


Should be a good combo.


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## OfficerFarva (Jul 14, 2012)

Shouldn't this advertisement be in the the placebo subsection forum?


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## Vibrant (Jul 14, 2012)

OfficerFarva said:


> Shouldn't this advertisement be in the the placebo subsection forum?



No bro, dhea belongs in the placebo subsection but this is super dhea.


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## longworthb (Jul 14, 2012)

did u guys pick random members to log this or people u know are going to give u a good review because they get free shit?


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## HereToStudy (Jul 15, 2012)

OfficerFarva said:


> Shouldn't this advertisement be in the the placebo subsection forum?



It is posted correctly. Both hormones featured in this product have been used extensively throughout the industry already, there is no doubt to their effectiveness.



Vibrant said:


> No bro, dhea belongs in the placebo subsection but this is super dhea.



You seriously need a hobby.



longworthb said:


> did u guys pick random members to log this or people u know are going to give u a good review because they get free shit?



I'll ignore the implication that we skew our results. We actually choose to do absolutely no sponsored logs specifically because there is no way to have them performed without the perception of bias. Instead, we allow for logs to be performed by members who have purchased the products with their hard earned money, so that there is no question of bias. Thus far, this has worked very well for us as positive reviews on the series continue to come in. 

The only exception to the zero-sponsored logs comments comes from our sponsored athletes, who should leave no question of bias as they utilize before/mid/after pictures throughout there logs. Just this weekend one of our sponsored athletes took 2nd in his show and placed for Nationals, using only Andro Series products and Mechabol for his pre-contest prep. I think results such as these are assuring enough for us.


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## AugustWest (Jul 16, 2012)

HereToStudy said:


> It is posted correctly. Both hormones featured in this product have been used extensively throughout the industry already, there is no doubt to their effectiveness.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## AugustWest (Jul 16, 2012)

BTW im about to start a 6 week Osta/AndroLean recomp so Ill def do a log. 

Week 1-6 Osta
Week 2-4 AndroLean

should be a nice one


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## HereToStudy (Jul 16, 2012)

AugustWest said:


> BTW im about to start a 6 week Osta/AndroLean recomp so Ill def do a log.
> 
> Week 1-6 Osta
> Week 2-4 AndroLean
> ...


Look forward to following, should be a good recomp.


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## teezhay (Jul 17, 2012)

I'll stick with real gear.


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## AugustWest (Jul 17, 2012)

teezhay said:


> I'll stick with real gear.




same here but im 25 and def not going to start blasting and cruising. going to use a non-suppressive 6 week cycle for recomp to drop some BF and prime for my fall gear bulk run.


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## GSracer (Jul 17, 2012)

HereToStudy said:


> .



I take issue with this chart. BS


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## teezhay (Jul 17, 2012)

AugustWest said:


> same here but im 25 and def not going to start blasting and cruising. going to use a non-suppressive 6 week cycle for recomp to drop some BF and prime for my fall gear bulk run.



Let me translate "non-suppressive" for you: "ineffective."


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## Standard Donkey (Jul 17, 2012)

im buying just for the self confidence


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## ryansm (Jul 17, 2012)

AugustWest said:


> BTW im about to start a 6 week Osta/AndroLean recomp so Ill def do a log.
> 
> Week 1-6 Osta
> Week 2-4 AndroLean
> ...


I would suggest you run the AL for 8 weeks


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## AugustWest (Jul 17, 2012)

unfortunately, I dont have that kind of cash for 8 weeks at the recommended dosage, but I would love too

BTW I just noticed I said AL weeks 2-4, its weeks 2-6. Im running AL for the last 4 weeks


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## heckler7 (Jul 17, 2012)

that fact that alot of gear is underdosed, sometimes fake or you never get it because they are scammers while costing hundreds of hard earned dollars I would argue that even if you got a mild anabolic effect at least you know what your getting.
never used Androlean so I wont comment, but I've done several cycles of superdrone from PP and it was strong shit, they are a good company.


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## AugustWest (Jul 17, 2012)

teezhay said:


> Let me translate "non-suppressive" for you: "ineffective."



well Ill be doing a log of my cycle so tune in. Ive cut several times, but this time cals will be at maintenance not restricted, so we will see the true effect of the supps.


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## HereToStudy (Jul 17, 2012)

GSracer said:


> I take issue with this chart. BS



Which part?



teezhay said:


> Let me translate "non-suppressive" for you: "ineffective."



http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/p...16-week-bodybuilding-prep-andro-series-7.html One of many examples.



heckler7 said:


> that fact that alot of gear is underdosed, sometimes fake or you never get it because they are scammers while costing hundreds of hard earned dollars I would argue that even if you got a mild anabolic effect at least you know what your getting.
> never used Androlean so I wont comment, but I've done several cycles of superdrone from PP and it was strong shit, they are a good company.


Thank you for your support.



AugustWest said:


> well Ill be doing a log of my cycle so tune in. Ive cut several times, but this time cals will be at maintenance not restricted, so we will see the true effect of the supps.



Be brutally honest in your log, I look forward to following it.


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## jadean (Jul 17, 2012)

Mechabol is a good compound. I read the log and others who have ran mechabol. Snaggy should have saved a few hundred and just ran the mech. Ive also seen plenty of logs where people said they got nothing out of v2


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## teezhay (Jul 17, 2012)

HereToStudy said:


> Which part?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/p...16-week-bodybuilding-prep-andro-series-7.html One of many examples.



One of many examples, indeed...from people who are paid by Primordial Performance to pretend they saw results from this "Super DHEA" garbage. 

But hey, unsubstantiated testimonials don't lie, right? Maybe I should run this shit right after my next Cell-Tech mass cycle.


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## HereToStudy (Jul 17, 2012)

teezhay said:


> One of many examples, indeed...from people who are paid by Primordial Performance to pretend they saw results from this "Super DHEA" garbage.
> 
> But hey, unsubstantiated testimonials don't lie, right? Maybe I should run this shit right after my next Cell-Tech mass cycle.


He is not an employee of Primordial, he received free product to run for his contest. Are his before and after pictures not real? I believe even a mod stepped in to back the credibility of snagency as a member of this community.


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## HereToStudy (Jul 17, 2012)

jadean said:


> Mechabol is a good compound. I read the log and others who have ran mechabol. Snaggy should have saved a few hundred and just ran the mech. Ive also seen plenty of logs where people said they got nothing out of v2


So you are going to mark up the entirety of his results to the compound that was run for the least amount of time during his prep?


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## teezhay (Jul 17, 2012)

HereToStudy said:


> He is not an employee of Primordial, he received free product to run for his contest. Are his before and after pictures not real? I believe even a mod stepped in to back the credibility of snagency as a member of this community.



So that "sponsored athlete" tag was ... what, irrelevant? For another company perhaps? I mean that would be kind of odd, he's sponsored by one of your competitors yet he's receiving freebies from you guys ... weird. Too weird to be the case, actually. Everything indicates he's a sponsored athlete of Primordial. 

And either way, even if he weren't sponsored by anyone at all (he is), just because he posted a testimonial about one product doesn't mean he didn't use several others concurrently. If you think otherwise, I know of a Nigerian prince who has a lucrative offer to make you.


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## HereToStudy (Jul 18, 2012)

teezhay said:


> So that "sponsored athlete" tag was ... what, irrelevant? For another company perhaps? I mean that would be kind of odd, he's sponsored by one of your competitors yet he's receiving freebies from you guys ... weird. Too weird to be the case, actually. Everything indicates he's a sponsored athlete of Primordial.
> 
> And either way, even if he weren't sponsored by anyone at all (he is), just because he posted a testimonial about one product doesn't mean he didn't use several others concurrently. If you think otherwise, I know of a Nigerian prince who has a lucrative offer to make you.



We require that any competitor that receives AndroSeries products for use in precontest places a sponsored athlete tag in his signature, which is exactly what I stated above (that he received product for use in precontest), or should we keep playing spin? 

He stated every product he has used. He used Mechabol at one point during the contest prep as well, and was quite open about that in his log. Had you read it, you would not be coming off as uninformed or wasting my time.

Alright, so you don't want his review. We also have:

AndroMass Review! - Bodybuilding.com Forums - Unsponsored

AndroMass 8 week cycle review - Primordial Performance Discussion Forums Unsponsored, Used as a base with a methyl

Andromass-Review-so far - Primordial Performance Discussion Forums Unsponsored

Androbulk & Androhard Review-so-far - Primordial Performance Discussion Forums AndroBulk - Unsponsored

AnabolicMinds.com Forum Androhard

etc..

etc...

etc...

Do we need to keep going, or can you find a new thread?


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## ryansm (Jul 18, 2012)

AugustWest said:


> unfortunately, I dont have that kind of cash for 8 weeks at the recommended dosage, but I would love too
> 
> BTW I just noticed I said AL weeks 2-4, its weeks 2-6. Im running AL for the last 4 weeks



HTS and I do have a discount code bud, and we also recommend 8 weeks for best results


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## AugustWest (Jul 18, 2012)

ryansm said:


> HTS and I do have a discount code bud, and we also recommend 8 weeks for best results




I know and you hooked me up already, which I appreciate. Even so im not made of money and wont be dropping 200 for an 8 week run, on a first time trial of a new product, so the 4 weeks will have to do.

Maybe you can talk to management and pull some strings to fill in the last 4 weeks for me, I am doing a full log


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## GSracer (Jul 18, 2012)

GSracer said:


> I take issue with this chart. BS



Heretostudy, I just want to know what studies are behind this chart.  It seems extremely broad and sweeping.  For example, "motivational energy" has been defined, compared head to head between Anro, injectables, and methylated orals?  With confounding variables controlled for?  I find this highly unlikely, but if you provide me with a study that isn't broscience, I will shut my mouth and apologize to you for attacking this chart...


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## teezhay (Jul 18, 2012)

GSracer said:


> Heretostudy, I just want to know what studies are behind this chart.  It seems extremely broad and sweeping.  For example, "motivational energy" has been defined, compared head to head between Anro, injectables, and methylated orals?  With confounding variables controlled for?  I find this highly unlikely, but if you provide me with a study that isn't broscience, I will shut my mouth and apologize to you for attacking this chart...



It's absolutely broscience. Whenever I see forum users challenge the legitimacy of IML products, Prince is the first one to step in with a major academic study (if not several) demonstrating the same conclusions Iron Mag is advertising. I've seen him do this in defense of multiple products. Primordial Performance, on the other hand, faces scrutiny from consumers and responds with some chart they themselves mocked up, with no sources or references cited to third party research substantiating a single claim they've made. Primordial Performance is the epitome of everything that's wrong with this market: style over substance, and sensationalism over science. 

It's not that long ago they were using the marketing slogan: "We made the best steroids on the planet." Just let that sink in for a moment. When you think "best steroids on the planet," these clowns expect you to think of them. Not the real pioneers of the early 20th century all the way to the '60s, who synthesized the body-altering compounds that changed the face of bodybuilding forever ... but Primordial Performance. Not Patrick Arnold or anyone down at BALCO ... but Primordial Performance. You know, the guys who released that Superdrol clone that people liked. Yeah, how revolutionary of them.


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## HereToStudy (Jul 18, 2012)

GSracer said:


> Heretostudy, I just want to know what studies are behind this chart.  It seems extremely broad and sweeping.  For example, "motivational energy" has been defined, compared head to head between Anro, injectables, and methylated orals?  With confounding variables controlled for?  I find this highly unlikely, but if you provide me with a study that isn't broscience, I will shut my mouth and apologize to you for attacking this chart...



I will give you that the energy would be subjective, we based it on our test subjects who were featured on the product pages (the case reports). But what is to argue? We claim that injectables (mainly testosterone) would be three times as effective at provide motivational energy, had we argued they were even or stronger, I could see the point. As for methylated compounds, with the exception of maybe dbol, I have yet to hear one report about an oral that makes someone feel awesome, in fact, most are riddled with anecdotal feedback on lethargy. 



teezhay said:


> It's absolutely broscience. Whenever I see forum users challenge the legitimacy of IML products, Prince is the first one to step in with a major academic study (if not several) demonstrating the same conclusions Iron Mag is advertising. I've seen him do this in defense of multiple products. Primordial Performance, on the other hand, faces scrutiny from consumers and responds with some chart they themselves mocked up, with no sources or references cited to third party research substantiating a single claim they've made. Primordial Performance is the epitome of everything that's wrong with this market: style over substance, and sensationalism over science.
> 
> It's not that long ago they were using the marketing slogan: "We made the best steroids on the planet." Just let that sink in for a moment. When you think "best steroids on the planet," these clowns expect you to think of them. Not the real pioneers of the early 20th century all the way to the '60s, who synthesized the body-altering compounds that changed the face of bodybuilding forever ... but Primordial Performance. Not Patrick Arnold or anyone down at BALCO ... but Primordial Performance. You know, the guys who released that Superdrol clone that people liked. Yeah, how revolutionary of them.



Please point me in the direction of one IML product that has over 60 references for an individual product. I would like to be enlightened. This entire line was designed based on findings from studies that date from Vida to present day. What the hell are you talking about with no references? They are listed right below the first post. 

You also are again, displaying how incredibly un-informed you are. You specifically mention Patrick Arnold, whom I have an immense amount of respect for. What you do not note is that Patrick Arnold is selling the same exact hormones that we feature in these products. Have you checked out the 7/11 spray? I also laughed at the mention of the superdrol clone in a sarcastic manner. Did you not just make IML out to be great, you know, the guys who sell methyl clones, including Halo for Her, and Ostarine? Please do not take my comments as negative towards IML, not my point at all. The point is that your argument is retarded.


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## MattPorter (Jul 18, 2012)

Teezhay -- you sound like you are pretty experienced in hormone cycling...

You also probably enjoy powerful and effective hormone cycles as would anyone given sides are not astronomical....

Now I enjoy all of the above too -- and if you are a VERY advanced hormone user and have been around the block for years

I will come right out and say AndroMass and AndroBulk wont be the same as your 750mg/test and 600mg/deca w/ a splash of abombs for shits...

However -- something like a potent 11 KetoTestosterone product would in fact compliment that cycle I mentioned, or ANY cycle for that matter as 11KT is very unique in and of itself.

I used a topical gel version of it (a prototype we made) and dosed it very high and noticed mid section tightening within 10 days with zero change in other hormones or food...

I am sure you know these products are for people who are not chronic hormone users, not advanced elite BB's striving for freak status, and they are for people whom wish to stay legal, wish to use pure ingredients that match labels, and people whom faint at the thought of reducing or impairing HPTA function etc....

Hell yes they are expensive and hell yes the marketing can get peoples feathers ruffled, but they do actually work....

-Matt


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## teezhay (Jul 19, 2012)

HereToStudy said:


> Did you not just make IML out to be great, you know, the guys who sell methyl clones, including Halo for Her, and Ostarine? Please do not take my comments as negative towards IML, not my point at all. The point is that your argument is retarded.



Earth to dumbass: IML isn't hammering some absurd false pretense down our throats by claiming they "made the best steroids on the planet." No, the only party claiming to be something they're not is Primordial Performance. Not IML. Read this a second time if it helps your comprehension. 

Furthermore, I've never even used any of Iron Mags' PH/DS products, so don't get the idea I'm some fanboy. What I am is someone who appreciates a company that doesn't lie for the sake of profitability. IML would undoubtedly benefit from a giant banner that says, "HALO FOR HER: PROVEN TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE THAN ANAVAR" but they don't because they can't substantiate that as fact. Primordial Performance, on the other hand, makes itself susceptible to copious amounts of criticism by claiming their garbage "super DHEA" capsules are better than injectable steroids, on the basis that they offer benefits that _aren't even quantifiable_, and which *I guarantee* aren't substantiated by empirical research compiled in academia or any other reputable scientific environment. Unless you have some pubmed study to share on AndroLean's ability to induce "_motivational energy_" and "_self-confidence_" superior to that of oral AAS. Or how about just one reputable study demonstrating AndroLean's ability to induce fat loss as being approximately 166% superior to that of testosterone (I'm calculating that number based on the decidedly unscientific "+" symbols on your chart which cites exactly zero sources or references).

And you won't provide any of that. Because none such studies exist, unless PP conducted them in a non-scientific manner and packaged the results in such a way that suited their needs. Give it up, you reek of fraud. Just like the bullshit abortion of a company for whom you prostitute your integrity.


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## teezhay (Jul 19, 2012)

MattPorter said:


> I will come right out and say AndroMass and AndroBulk wont be the same as your 750mg/test and 600mg/deca w/ a splash of abombs for shits...



I'm not as experienced in using these as I am reading about them. I've seen you around several forums, and I've seen you help a lot of people. You seem like a good guy, so I'm confused why you're just as dedicated to hammering the party line as your colleague. If you had a single piece of empirical research indicating these glorified DHEA products are _equally effective_ to such significant dosages of test, deca, and anadrol *combined*, you would have provided it. But you don't, so why are you making these claims?

Waiting on some substance here...


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## HereToStudy (Jul 19, 2012)

teezhay said:


> Earth to dumbass: IML isn't hammering some absurd false pretense down our throats by claiming they "made the best steroids on the planet." No, the only party claiming to be something they're not is Primordial Performance. Not IML. Read this a second time if it helps your comprehension.




Please use more bold and font resizing, I am unsure if I could find your post otherwise. But please stop arguing like a pussy. You can not make a direct comparison to another company, and then side step a counter argument to your statement. You stated that his products are directly supported by science. I asked what science was involved? Can I see your studies on superdrol? There might be, what, a handful of them outside of vida? One specifically discussing Liver Failure/Cholestasis and Renal Failure? Others dealing with synthesis only? These are the ones you are discussing right? I am sure you have read them. Studies for our product have been provided. If you would like, you can request a free copy of our white papers on the product at this link, which not only lists all literature used in the formulation (from the compounds, to coversion expectations, to the delivery method), but also explains the pharmacokinetics of the product. I hope you enjoy the read: Andro Whitepapers




teezhay said:


> Furthermore, I've never even used any of Iron Mags' PH/DS products, so don't get the idea I'm some fanboy. What I am is someone who appreciates a company that doesn't lie for the sake of profitability. IML would undoubtedly benefit from a giant banner that says, "HALO FOR HER: PROVEN TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE THAN ANAVAR" but they don't because they can't substantiate that as fact.



You are right, they shouldn't state it in terms of Anavar, because it is a prohormone to Turinabol, NOT Anavar. However, this is from their product page:







So can we now accept that you are completely bias in your assesment of the companies. Seeing that what you are specifically arguing they are better than us for, is not actually the case, and instead, you are once again providing a means for me to display how uninformed you really are? Why are you still going at this?





teezhay said:


> Primordial Performance, on the other hand, makes itself susceptible to copious amounts of criticism by claiming their garbage "super DHEA" capsules are better than injectable steroids, on the basis that they offer benefits that _aren't even quantifiable_, and which *I guarantee* aren't substantiated by empirical research compiled in academia or any other reputable scientific environment.



Again, how many references are needed on a product. Have you read the studies? Have you bothered to read them? We provided studies on nearly all aspects of the product. We make a direct comparison to testosterone (in terms of AndroMass, most specifically), because the product converts to testosterone the intermediate conversion stages have anabolic/androgenic properties very similar to testosterone, and the hormonal enviornment provided by these products would provide a very similar enviornment to one that is using testosterone. We have had positive feedback in terms of solo cycles as well as those using them as a base, much like testosterone.

The specific product in this thread contains compounds that have been utilized by many companies and is featured in many products currently on the market. It is featured so commonly because they are proven effective. It is funny, another side step to your argument was the comment about PA, which I countered with the fact that he offers the same compounds in his products, yet you didn't reply to that. We took compounds available on the market, and researched a means to make them more effective, leading to the addition of an ester to the coupound (what is referenced as "Super-" in our marketing), and provided a delivery system that addresses the concerns over bio-availability of these compounds.




teezhay said:


> Unless you have some pubmed study to share on AndroLean's ability to induce "_motivational energy_" and "_self-confidence_" superior to that of oral AAS. Or how about just one reputable study demonstrating AndroLean's ability to induce fat loss as being approximately 166% superior to that of testosterone (I'm calculating that number based on the decidedly unscientific "+" symbols on your chart which cites exactly zero sources or references).



Again, you are arguing for the sake of arguing. I stated above the self-confidence and motivational energy is based on anecdotal feedback we received on a testing base. We didn't claim it to be nearly as effective as Test, which would have been untrue, and we claimed it one be one step above orals for energy (which how the hell do you argue agaisnt that when lethargy is the number on thing mentioned when discussing methylated oral AAS?), or on par which self confidence that comes from an oral cycle (which I would argue that the confidence is overstated for orals on that chart, but I didn't make it). But either way, you are choosing to argue against the least important information provided on that chart. They are subjective, but we based on it on extensive testing in the pre-release stage, and it has been more than backed by feedback received from our customers, which as I stated features everyone from guys who have worked out for a year or two, up to competitors who have used our products in pre-contest (2 of which have just placed 2nd within the past month in their respective contests, one of which qualified for nationals as a result of it). 



teezhay said:


> And you won't provide any of that. Because none such studies exist, unless PP conducted them in a non-scientific manner and packaged the results in such a way that suited their needs. Give it up, you reek of fraud. Just like the bullshit abortion of a company for whom you prostitute your integrity.



My integrity is intact. We have provided more than enough in terms of studies to back our products. Studies which you have not even read, and probably wouldn't comprehend if you did. Your mannerism of argument has displayed a lack of intellect, and your means of resulting to insulting comments, "earth to dumbass" or "prostitution of my integrity" displays the foundation you stand on as a person. I understand, however. When arguing against someone about something I don't know much about, I too would probably step down to the same level of tact. 



teezhay said:


> I'm not as experienced in using these as I am reading about them. I've seen you around several forums, and I've seen you help a lot of people. You seem like a good guy, so I'm confused why you're just as dedicated to hammering the party line as your colleague. If you had a single piece of empirical research indicating these glorified DHEA products are _equally effective_ to such significant dosages of test, deca, and anadrol *combined*, you would have provided it. But you don't, so why are you making these claims?
> 
> Waiting on some substance here...



The fuck are you talking about? He specifically stated that it is not equal to significant dosages of those products combined, can you read?

I appreciate your honesty in stating that you are still in the research level of the hormone game. You speak as someone who stands on a leg of experience, yet argue against those who are better read and have a much more extensive research invested on the subjects. Your argument has been displayed in a misinformed, and misappropriated manner. It is my suggestion that you give it up, because you are making yourself out to be quite the fool.


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## MattPorter (Jul 19, 2012)

teezhay said:


> I'm not as experienced in using these as I am reading about them. I've seen you around several forums, and I've seen you help a lot of people. You seem like a good guy, so I'm confused why you're just as dedicated to hammering the party line as your colleague. If you had a single piece of empirical research indicating these glorified DHEA products are _equally effective_ to such significant dosages of test, deca, and anadrol *combined*, you would have provided it. But you don't, so why are you making these claims?
> 
> Waiting on some substance here...




I clearly was HONEST and said they WONT compare....re-read my post man ...... calm down its just a forum and yes these hormones work, just not like an instantaneous blow up effect of superdrol, anadrol etc etc....

You just do not get thousands of placebos and witness people change first hand from sugar pills....these are for the category of people I LISTED....read things carefully.

-Matt


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## teezhay (Jul 19, 2012)

MattPorter said:


> I clearly was HONEST and said they WONT compare....re-read my post man ...... calm down its just a forum and yes these hormones work, just not like an instantaneous blow up effect of superdrol, anadrol etc etc....
> 
> You just do not get thousands of placebos and witness people change first hand from sugar pills....these are for the category of people I LISTED....read things carefully.
> 
> -Matt



Read that too hastily, my bad. My point is there are thousands of people vouching for the authenticity of virtually every heavily promoted product. Cell-Tech has a 7.7 rating on bodybuilding.com with 711 reviews right now. There are people on bodybuilding forums claiming to feel rejuvenated just from using D-Aspartic Acid. And even if AndroLean worked just as well as some old Competitive Edge Labs product (I don't know that it does, I'm just throwing it out there), _that doesn't mean it has any place being marketed on a forum for steroids, especially not in such a way that asserts some level of comparability to real, legitimate, geniuine AAS_. That comparability just doesn't exist. You know as well as I do someone on AndroLean is not going to cut the same amount of fat as someone who works equally hard and eats equally cleanly while pinning a hefty dose of tren a, so why would you support a chart claiming the former is superior to "injectable steroids" in terms of fat loss? We all know that isn't true, but that's what your chart touts. 

With the real, substantive information we have, there's no reason to believe AndroLean is even in the same league as steroids, let alone a substitute for them. And it's 2012, consumers are smarter than they've ever been. You can't just use before and after pics of some guy who probably trains for this sport competitively, and expect that to be enough evidence for the efficacy of your product. Furthermore, you can't just produce charts void of any citations or supporting research along with arbitrarily formulated claims of grandiosity ("We made the best steroids on the planet") and expect that to suffice. And the fact that you guys think it will is insulting to the intelligence of this market. 

I'm relieved to have seen several other IMF users leave incredulous comments on this thread, because that means these sly tricks have lost their luster. You'll still sell your AndroLean to 45-year-old guys desperate to look and feel like they're 25 again, and 18-year-old kids who desperately want a six pack, but you're not fooling those who are well-versed in this market. We don't buy your non-quantifiable claims of AndroLean's superiority in "motivational energy" and "self-confidence" or its ability to burn fat more effectively than "injectable steroids" (as if all of them are comparable and belong in one category). It's not going to fly any more. Not here.


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## MattPorter (Jul 19, 2012)

teezhay said:


> Read that too hastily, my bad. My point is there are thousands of people vouching for the authenticity of virtually every heavily promoted product. Cell-Tech has a 7.7 rating on bodybuilding.com with 711 reviews right now. There are people on bodybuilding forums claiming to feel rejuvenated just from using D-Aspartic Acid. And even if AndroLean worked just as well as some old Competitive Edge Labs product (I don't know that it does, I'm just throwing it out there), _that doesn't mean it has any place being *marketed on a forum for steroids,* especially not in such a way that asserts some level of comparability to *real, legitimate, geniuine AAS*_*.* That comparability just doesn't exist. You know as well as I do someone on AndroLean is not going to cut the same amount of fat as someone who works equally hard and eats equally cleanly while pinning a hefty dose of tren a, so why would you support a chart claiming the former is superior to "injectable steroids" in terms of fat loss? We all know that isn't true, but that's what your chart touts.
> 
> With the real, substantive information we have, there's no reason to believe AndroLean is even in the same league as steroids, let alone a substitute for them. And it's 2012, consumers are smarter than they've ever been. You can't just use before and after pics of some guy who probably trains for this sport competitively, and expect that to be enough evidence for the efficacy of your product. Furthermore, you can't just produce charts void of any citations or supporting research along with arbitrarily formulated claims of grandiosity ("We made the best steroids on the planet") and expect that to suffice. And the fact that you guys think it will is insulting to the intelligence of this market.
> 
> I'm relieved to have seen several other IMF users leave incredulous comments on this thread, because that means these sly tricks have lost their luster. You'll still sell your AndroLean to 45-year-old guys desperate to look and feel like they're 25 again, and 18-year-old kids who desperately want a six pack, but you're not fooling those who are well-versed in this market. We don't buy your non-quantifiable claims of AndroLean's superiority in "motivational energy" and "self-confidence" or its ability to burn fat more effectively than "injectable steroids" (as if all of them are comparable and belong in one category). It's not going to fly any more. Not here.





You do know that 11-ketotestosterone is a steroid hormone right? You know that intermediate steroids like 4-androstendiol are steroids too right?

All I am saying is 11KT is a nice low androgenic, high anabolic hormone that will help drop some BF% and gain some muscle in less experienced users....and also collaborate with your "trens, gh, EQ" cycle etc.. since it is a unique hormone itself.

Noone needs to be fooled into thinking AndroSeries will be the same as Tren + Test + Masteron etc....because the farthest we take is comparing it to a LOW dose testosterone -- similar to a TRT range and that is that....

I have several EXPERIENCED steroid users on AndroHard stacked in with their highly aromatizing compounds and they KEEP buying more.....

-Matt


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## HereToStudy (Jul 20, 2012)

Now that we can move on, 

I have had more than a few guys hit me with PMs for coupons. Don't be shy guys, save now and start your summer cut.


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## ryansm (Jul 26, 2012)

HereToStudy said:


> Now that we can move on,
> 
> I have had more than a few guys hit me with PMs for coupons. Don't be shy guys, save now and start your summer cut.



25% off Including some of our other products


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## HereToStudy (Jul 26, 2012)

ryansm said:


> 25% off Including some of our other products


Yep, from cycle to PCT, we will take care of you


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## HereToStudy (Jul 31, 2012)

AndroEnhance has been released. Fans of topicals can add this to any androseries cycle, including androlean.. As always, PM for a discount


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