# Cravings



## Muscle_Girl (Oct 5, 2010)

So, this past week or so, my need to chew has increased dramatically. I did switch up my training program, now using Built's baby got back program, 3 days a week. I feel most motivated to complete the training program in the mornings about an hour after breakfast. I am debating whether it will be better for me to switch to evenings to fight these cravings better.

With these cravings I have found myself overeating nuts, natty pb and insane amounts of sugar free gum. The gum does me fine, but I literally eat a whole pack in an evening, sometimes more. 

Does anyone have any suggestions to keep my attention off my cravings, or something better to munch on? I have read that excess gum chewing could lead to excess stomach acid, which leads to unwanted consistency of bowel movements.


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## Marat (Oct 5, 2010)

What are your macros?


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## Built (Oct 5, 2010)

Good question. Also, when do you eat, and when do the cravings kick in?


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## Muscle_Girl (Oct 5, 2010)

I stopped tracking this week, got a little irritated at the scale not budging, even though I have seen improved definition. I have also found it a little difficult to track at times due to school and the fact that I need to try everything I make (training to be an executive chef). Anyway, before I stopped tracking I was looking at an average of 1200 cals (49% fat, 18% carbs, 33% proteins). I am 5'6 and roughly 152 lbs.


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## Muscle_Girl (Oct 5, 2010)

I have been drinking more coffee lately. Previously, I just had one or two cups in the morning, but now I have added a cup or two when I get home from school, usually 2pm-ish.

I eat in the morning when I wake, 6:15am, during or after my first class, 11am-1pm, then dinner 4-6pm, and usually a snack in the evening. My classes vary a good amount, so its not always the same timing each day.

The evening "snack" areas are when the ancy need to chew comes on, anytime after dinner.


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## Built (Oct 5, 2010)

Muscle_Girl said:


> I stopped tracking this week, got a little irritated at the scale not budging, even though I have seen improved definition. I have also found it a little difficult to track at times due to school and the fact that I need to try everything I make (training to be an executive chef). Anyway, before I stopped tracking I was looking at an average of 1200 cals (49% fat, 18% carbs, 33% proteins). I am 5'6 and roughly 152 lbs.



Grams please. And 1200? Why so low???

What is maintenance for you?



Muscle_Girl said:


> I have been drinking more coffee lately. Previously, I just had one or two cups in the morning, but now I have added a cup or two when I get home from school, usually 2pm-ish.
> 
> I eat in the morning when I wake, 6:15am, during or after my first class, 11am-1pm, then dinner 4-6pm, and usually a snack in the evening. My classes vary a good amount, so its not always the same timing each day.
> 
> The evening "snack" areas are when the ancy need to chew comes on, anytime after dinner.




Were you carb cycling, or was it the same calories every day?


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## Muscle_Girl (Oct 5, 2010)

Average in grams: 68g Fat, 55.6g Carb, 96.1g Protein. I can't figure out what is maintenance for me, I would assume this is because I didn't see a change on the scale during this time. (ps, I hate math) For the most part, I was trying to keep the same amount each day, not carb cycling.


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## SBT (Oct 5, 2010)

seems to me that your calories are kind of low, and that could be one reason why the scale stopped moving??  

so it could be the lowered cals that is making you hungrier...


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## Built (Oct 5, 2010)

Muscle_Girl said:


> Average in grams: 68g Fat, 55.6g Carb, 96.1g Protein. I can't figure out what is maintenance for me, I would assume this is because I didn't see a change on the scale during this time. (ps, I hate math) For the most part, I was trying to keep the same amount each day, not carb cycling.




Those are PSMF-level calories - far too low for this kind of training. 

Why so low?


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## Muscle_Girl (Oct 6, 2010)

Basically that low because I hate math and wasn't able to figure out my maintenance, or LBM. I was doing fine, but with the switch in program I can see why I am hyperactive in the evenings. I had a feeling it possibly had something to do with the 20 mins extra cardio.

Anyway, I need to get back on track, and I need a little help. I obviously don't know what I am doing, at least I know generally where my cals should be going to.


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## Built (Oct 6, 2010)

Where should your cals be going to?


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## Muscle_Girl (Oct 6, 2010)

Well, where you told me, moderately low carb, with high fats and proteins.


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## Built (Oct 6, 2010)

That's macros. I asked you about your statement, about the calories.


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## Muscle_Girl (Oct 6, 2010)

I sorta thought of them in the same way really, so my statement meant that. Are calories not macros? Either way, I am clueless as to what is right for me to provide a deficit and allow me to drop some weight. Start off with several sets of numbers and my eyes will just glaze over.

If I was at PSMF-level calories, and didn't lose or gain weight on the scale that week, what the heck happened?!


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## SBT (Oct 6, 2010)

Your body got stuck on being in that deficit, and started storing fat for the reason that it was basically in starvation mode.  Since I don't see listed that you were making use of refeeds at all, in order to keep your metabolism kicked up.


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## Muscle_Girl (Oct 6, 2010)

Ok. So I haven't been tracking this past week, and I haven't been strict with my diet. Is there something more I need to do to start from stratch, or should I just start at a set amount of cals and track my gain/loss for the week and go from there? The ideas of refeeds and cycling is a little confusing, how much, when, what food is best, etc.


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## Built (Oct 6, 2010)

Muscle Girl, read the link in my sig on "getting started" and follow the fitday information in there. 

You can also read "do it yourself diet" on my blog. 

You don't know what you're eating, and that's fine. You hate math, that's fine too. Fitday does it for you. Have a little read, and come back to me with this:

What is your lean mass?
What do you weigh?
What do you want to weigh?
Approximately how many calories do you think you might need to maintain your weight? (Hint: for non-overweight folks who are moderately active, it's usually around 13 to 15 times your bodyweight.) 

For example, I'm about 19% bodyfat right now, and weigh 145 lbs. This is healthy-lean for a normal recreationally athletic female (and fat for a bodybuilder LOL!). My current maintenance is around 2100 - 2200 calories, and doing the math for you, this translates to roughly 15 times my current bodyweight. 

When I was obese, I weighed 170 lbs and carried 40% bodyfat. I also ran 10k 3 x weekly. My maintenance back then, WITH the running, was I *think*, around 2300 a day, which is only slightly higher than it is now, only I don't run anymore. 

My lean mass is about 120 lbs, so my minimum protein intake is 120g and my minimum fat intake is 60g. In practice, my protein is usually closer to 160g and my fat intake is usually closer to 100g, but that's fine because I keep my calories under control and don't go over what I need. 

Does this help?


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## Muscle_Girl (Oct 7, 2010)

I don't have a set weight in mind. I don't know what the % is for this, but I basically want to touch my stomach and feel the muscle rather than the cushion between.

Based on the calculator I used, my LBM is 105.5lbs. 152x13 = 2015 for maintenance.

I need at least 105g of Protein and 53g Fat each day.

What should be my deficit? Opinions on keto? I have previously found it very difficult to fill in the calories, which is why I was running on 1200 average. Looking at things from a keto perspective, its easier to fill in calories with higher fat intakes.


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## Built (Oct 7, 2010)

Try keto, but at about 1600 calories. Roughly equal grams of protein and fat works great for me when I do it. Carbs under 50g daily. 

Do a carbup for 5 hours once a week.


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## DaMayor (Oct 7, 2010)

Muscle_Girl said:


> With these cravings I have found myself overeating nuts, *natty pb *and insane amounts of sugar free gum.



Okay, there *has to be *some science that explains why *peanut butter *is so appealing. 
I can stare donuts right in the face, pass by bagels, my son's cereals, snack foods and all of the other little goodies that non-dieting spouses and ten year olds enjoy...but peanut butter is the one food that causes problems regularly. All I can come up with at this point is that my cravings are due to the combination of both carbs *and fat *during this RFL.

Sorry for the hi-jack....


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## Muscle_Girl (Oct 7, 2010)

Built said:


> Try keto, but at about 1600 calories. Roughly equal grams of protein and fat works great for me when I do it. Carbs under 50g daily.
> 
> Do a carbup for 5 hours once a week.


Remind me what a carbup is? How much and how often should I eat over a 5 hour period? Also, is there a time limit for a keto diet? I have read a bit about it, but most of the information is for epileptics.


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## Muscle_Girl (Oct 7, 2010)

DaMayor said:


> Okay, there *has to be *some science that explains why *peanut butter *is so appealing.
> I can stare donuts right in the face, pass by bagels, my son's cereals, snack foods and all of the other little goodies that non-dieting spouses and ten year olds enjoy...but peanut butter is the one food that causes problems regularly. All I can come up with at this point is that my cravings are due to the combination of both carbs *and fat *during this RFL.
> 
> Sorry for the hi-jack....


Yea, I was thinking the same, the fact that both carbs and fats are packaged together. Perhaps if I didn't have the jar sitting on my desk, I wouldn't be as eager to grab a spoonful as frequently. Luckily, I ran out a couple days ago, so I don't have anything to easily grab and gorge on.

My cravings have been better the past few days, but I have had a bit of bread in the evenings, we made it in pastry class


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## Built (Oct 7, 2010)

You have another option if you like - carb cycle. You could do something as simple as what I have below - that is to say, each day you get 160g protein and 50g of fat. On the high carb/calorie days, you get 225g carb. 
On the low calorie/carb days, you get 50g carb.

If you're going to average 1600 calories, you can do this:

*Average daily macros: *
160g of protein, 
50g of fat, and 
125g of carbohydrate, 
1,600 calories in total.

*(3) Lifting/HIIT days: *
160g of protein, 
50g of fat, and 
225g of carbohydrate, 
2,000 calories in total.

*(4) Rest/SS Cardio days:* 
160g of protein, 
50g of fat, and 
50g of carbohydrate, 
1,300 calories in total.


On the 3 lifting days, you can eat all your carbs near bedtime if you like. Train in the evening, have 40g of your carb preworkout, then the rest between then and when you go to sleep. 

Could this work for you?


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## XYZ (Oct 7, 2010)

Built said:


> Try keto, but at about 1600 calories. Roughly equal grams of protein and fat works great for me when I do it. Carbs under 50g daily.
> 
> *Do a carbup for 5 hours once a week*.


 

Why do you suggest this for 5 hours instead of an entire day every two weeks or even every week?  Can you really raise leptin levels in 5 hours?  Please no studies either, just opinion.

Do you think that raising leptin levels that often then going back to CKD is beneficial?


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## XYZ (Oct 7, 2010)

DaMayor said:


> *Okay, there has to be some science that explains why peanut butter is so appealing.*
> I can stare donuts right in the face, pass by bagels, my son's cereals, snack foods and all of the other little goodies that non-dieting spouses and ten year olds enjoy...but peanut butter is the one food that causes problems regularly. All I can come up with at this point is that my cravings are due to the combination of both carbs *and fat *during this RFL.
> 
> Sorry for the hi-jack....


 

x 1,000.


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## Muscle_Girl (Oct 7, 2010)

I honestly like the idea of keto, its much easier to stick to when I can focus on fatty type foods, I don't know why, but I find it fun. Eggs, cheese, protein shakes, veggies, chicken, ground turkey.. all the things I love to eat.

So, to do a 5 hour carbup during my week, what is it I need to do? Would 5 hours be enough for keto? Does it matter? Is there anything else I should know about keto? There seems to be limited information about it, so I just want to make sure I am doing it in a healthy way.


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## Built (Oct 7, 2010)

Muscle_Girl said:


> Why do you suggest this for 5 hours instead of an entire day every two weeks or even every week?


 to limit the calorie impact





Muscle_Girl said:


> Can you really raise leptin levels in 5 hours?  Please no studies either, just opinion.


 not much. You won't need it much while you're still juicy. 


Muscle_Girl said:


> Do you think that raising leptin levels that often then going back to CKD is beneficial?


 See above.



Muscle_Girl said:


> I honestly like the idea of keto, its much easier to stick to when I can focus on fatty type foods, I don't know why, but I find it fun. Eggs, cheese, protein shakes, veggies, chicken, ground turkey.. all the things I love to eat.


Then do that.


Muscle_Girl said:


> So, to do a 5 hour carbup during my week, what is it I need to do? Would 5 hours be enough for keto? Does it matter? Is there anything else I should know about keto? There seems to be limited information about it, so I just want to make sure I am doing it in a healthy way.



Limited info about keto? Really?

Read Lyle. 

Listen, you need to run a deficit. Do that. Do keto. Eat about 100g each protein and fat daily, keep carbs <50g and be done with it. Keep your calories around 1600 for a bit, see how you feel. If you find after a few weeks you're getting massive carb cravings, have a 5-hour carb refeed, heavy on the white starches, then go back to ketp the next day. 

That help?


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## Muscle_Girl (Oct 7, 2010)

Yea, that sounds fine. It may be the reason why I went hyperactive last week with the PB and gum, so I definately need to use the carbup time. I was curious about keto, so I tried it for a couple weeks, now, it all makes sense.

Could be quite convenient if I plan my carbup for Wednesdays, my pastry class, we make bread often. 

Thanks for your help.


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## OutWhey (Oct 7, 2010)

I wouldnt rec keto. Personally, I dont enjoy the way I feel on it or look with higher fats. 

Invest into a supplement that offer benefits of shuttling carbs into your body more effiently, something like Need2Slin


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## Muscle_Girl (Oct 7, 2010)

I really have no interest in taking anything other than plain protein powder. I was even hesitant to get the powder! lol


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## Built (Oct 7, 2010)

Muscle_Girl said:


> Yea, that sounds fine. It may be the reason why I went hyperactive last week with the PB and gum, so I definately need to use the carbup time. I was curious about keto, so I tried it for a couple weeks, now, it all makes sense.
> 
> Could be quite convenient if I plan my carbup for Wednesdays, my pastry class, we make bread often.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


Bingo. Fit it into your lifestyle. Plan to remain active through your carbup - you'll feel better and you'll reglycogenate better. 


Conrad415 said:


> I wouldnt rec keto. Personally, I dont enjoy the way I feel on it or look with higher fats.


It's funny, some folks love keto, some hate it. Musclegirl already said she likes keto. I do too - I always feel best - and healthiest - on a very high fat diet. Go figure. 


Conrad415 said:


> Invest into a supplement that offer benefits of shuttling carbs into your body more effiently, something like Need2Slin



I'd hardly recommend telling someone to take a supplement so she can routinely eat a diet that doesn't agree with her. Think about it - that's like as if the American Diabetic Association told type II diabetics to eat a high carb diet, and then take metformin and exercise so they can handle the carbs. 

_Oh wait, they do. _Gotta love Big Pharma. 
Fuckers.

That being said, this supplement might be a useful suggestion for the carbups.


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## Built (Oct 7, 2010)

Muscle_Girl said:


> I really have no interest in taking anything other than plain protein powder. I was even hesitant to get the powder! lol



There's no need for it. You can use creatine if you like - that'll help you reglycogenate, too, plus it'll load in a bit of creatine. I load 25g creatine during carbups. 

It's optional though. The biggest effect will be from diet, and from movement through the carbup (movement translocates GLUT-4 transporters and assists with glucose disposal).


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## XYZ (Oct 8, 2010)

Built said:


> to limit the calorie impact not much. You won't need it much while you're still juicy.
> See above.
> 
> 
> ...


 

Just to clarify, that last post you have quoted was NOT made by me.**Fixed** - sorry for the misquote

My understanding is that being in keto for days on end you need a refeed day to replenish glycogen and raise leptin levels,  to keep the progress moving along in the right direction.  Then most of the calories you're eating are being stored as glycogen in the muscles and NOT being stored as fat, (within reason).  IF that is the case it really wouldn't matter if you ate above baseline.

I know when I do a refeed I can hit 8,000-10,000calories in a day and still keep dropping weight, and they are nowhere near all clean calories.  I went from 12% BF down to 6% doing this every 14 days.


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## Built (Oct 8, 2010)

CT said:


> My understanding is that being in keto for days on end you need a refeed day to replenish glycogen and raise leptin levels,  to keep the progress moving along in the right direction.  Then most of the calories you're eating are being stored as glycogen in the muscles and NOT being stored as fat, (within reason).  IF that is the case it really wouldn't matter if you ate above baseline.


Depends how lean you are. I was in keto for eight months straight when I did Atkins. I did just fine. 


CT said:


> I know when I do a refeed I can hit 8,000-10,000calories in a day and still keep dropping weight, and they are nowhere near all clean calories.  I went from 12% BF down to 6% doing this every 14 days.


Carbups are very individual. They depend on so many different factors - age, insulin sensitivity, activity level, conditioning??? even Lyle only gives broadly-based guidelines.


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## irongrl (Oct 8, 2010)

DaMayor said:


> Okay, there *has to be *some science that explains why *peanut butter *is so appealing.
> I can stare donuts right in the face, pass by bagels, my son's cereals, snack foods and all of the other little goodies that non-dieting spouses and ten year olds enjoy...but peanut butter is the one food that causes problems regularly. All I can come up with at this point is that my cravings are due to the combination of both carbs *and fat *during this RFL.
> 
> Sorry for the hi-jack....



 Peanut butter...the only food I cannot have in my home.  I will eat 1/2 the jar if there is one around..


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## Muscle_Girl (Oct 8, 2010)

irongrl said:


> Peanut butter...the only food I cannot have in my home.  I will eat 1/2 the jar if there is one around..


Haha, I guess you learned the same way that I did. I should get a new jar, but I am thinking it may be for the best if I didn't.


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## irongrl (Oct 8, 2010)

Muscle_Girl said:


> Haha, I guess you learned the same way that I did. I should get a new jar, but I am thinking it may be for the best if I didn't.



Yes, I did.  It's really best for me not to have any peanut butter in the house..


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## SBT (Oct 12, 2010)

Conrad415 said:


> I wouldnt rec keto. Personally, I dont enjoy the way I feel on it or look with higher fats.
> 
> Invest into a supplement that offer benefits of shuttling carbs into your body more effiently, something like Need2Slin


a supplement, such as need2slin, would also help during the refeeds.

i have several clients who run keto, yet still use gda's for refeeds.


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## Built (Oct 12, 2010)

SBT, I am very interested in how best to use GDAs during refeeds. Do you have any experience with metformin in this application?


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## XYZ (Oct 13, 2010)

SBT said:


> a supplement, such as need2slin, would also help during the refeeds.
> 
> i have several clients who run keto, yet still use gda's for refeeds.


 

Nice plug for his product. Insulin works 1000 times better than that OTC garbage. I still miss you at AF.

Are you still a Needto sponsored athlete?


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## MartyMar (Oct 13, 2010)

Did you ever check out AnabolicPump by USP LABS


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## needtogetaas (Oct 28, 2010)

CT said:


> Nice plug for his product. Insulin works 1000 times better than that OTC garbage. I still miss you at AF.
> 
> Are you still a Needto sponsored athlete?


  Ya she is, Why you jealous ya little bitch?


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