# friends mom needs help (fullbody)



## PreMier (Jan 19, 2009)

so my friends mom needs dome help working out.. her kids got her a nutritionist for christmas (where they plan all her macros and meals), so that part is taken care of.  but she has never really worked out.  she doesnt have a lot of money so a pt is out of the question.. anyway i told her i would help her 3 days a week.  problem is i have never helped anyone that wasnt male, or near my age..

so i have read through some of the stickies (thanks so much pfunk and cowpimp), but i just want to make sure this will be ok.  i plan on being there to help her and make sure her form and everything is correct.

she is probably around 40-45yrs old, 5'2"-4", and over 150lbs (these are guestimates by looking at her, i will get more accurate information when i talk to her next).  she has no physical problems, other then sometimes she gets winded (as far as she knows she doesnt have asthma), and her ankles/lower legs get tired and achy.

here is what i have come up with, ANY suggestions or help as far as exercise recommendations is appreciated!!

*Warm-up:*
	Ankle mobility drill
        Heel to glute raises
	Knee raises
	Shoulder circles

*Info:* 

12-15 reps 2-3 sets, need to increase connective tissue strength, develop your stabilizer muscles and intermuscular coordination skills
focus: form and developing proper motor patterns right from the start. 60-120sec RI???s

*Workout:*
	Monday ??? Wednesday ??? Saturday
	Week 1: A, B, A
	Week 2: B, A, B

*Workout A - Push:*
Lower body push: back squats(possibly no bar?)

Upper body vertical push: bench press 

Lower body push: stepups

Upper body horizontal push: standing DB press

*Workout B - Pull:*
Lower body pull: deadlifts/sldl?

Upper body horizontal pull: bent bb rows

Lower body pull: hypers

Upper body vertical pull: pulldowns

*Cardio:*

Ideas?  1 day a week possibly?  What type?


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## lucifuge (Jan 19, 2009)

I'm no trainer, but I'll throw some opinions/ideas out there.
 I'd change the frequency to 2 training sessions and 1 cardio a week, simply because she's so unfamiliar that she may 'burn out' with 4 workouts a week.
 That being said, the routine looks solid as hell to me. Try the back squats with the bar and see if she can handle it, if not go for sissy or DB squats.
 I'd keep both deads and SLDL for lower pull and drop the hypers, but once again, that's dependent on her ability. If it has to be one or the other, I'd go with deads and hypers.
 I'd recommend low impact cardio, like the elliptical, but if her legs & ankles become a problem switch over to a bike.
 That's my $.02, but overall, I think your plan looks solid.


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## PreMier (Jan 19, 2009)

that was my thought on back squats as well, thanks

i was going to have her workout 3 days a week as stated, and do cardio one day right after her training, not a separate day.. but if it would be too much, then i will drop it all together. it needs to be something like bike, rowing, eliptical.. like you said, low impact.

is there a reason you would do sldl/deads and drop the hypers? it can be switched to whatever.. like i said, just looking for some feedback.  and thanks so much


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## lucifuge (Jan 19, 2009)

heh, the only real reason I'd go with deads/sldl is personal preference. I've never liked hypers. For me, sldl's always seemed more effective.
 I don't know if 3 days a week would be too much, I'm just thinking of the amount of DOMS she's gonna get for the first couple weeks and deciding "it's too hard" to keep training. If she can handle it, go for it.
 Cardio after training is a great plan, if she's still got the gas for it. Go with it and keep it short (about 15 - 20 min) to start and just make whatever adjustments you need as you go along.


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## Hench (Jan 19, 2009)

Routine looks great Pre! 

One thing I found is when teaching complete beginners how to lift is to keep the rep range a little lower (5-8) with a slightly heavier weight. They tend to learn better form when they are able to focus on less reps, they can start to lose concentration when they get up into the 15 rep region. 

Just a thought bud, but as I said the routine is solid.


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## PreMier (Jan 20, 2009)

so use a weight thats maybe 8-12rep max, and do fewer reps?  i was thinking higher, because she is older.. she doesnt workout.. and if i fuck her up in the gym, she wont come back 


any other feedback?


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## Built (Jan 21, 2009)

Good advice all around here - stick to compounds, no machines, low-ish rep range so she practices the movements before her form goes to shit. 

Try goblet squats to start with. Women often have trouble with back squats, but goblets force correct form.

I wrote this for newbies; she may like it:  Got Built? » Basic whole-body workout


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## PreMier (Jan 22, 2009)

perfect, i like this: B1 Negative self-assisted chins instead of pulldowns.


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## Built (Jan 22, 2009)

Those things are how I taught myself how to do chins. Those negs are great weighted, too - try 'em sometime while overloaded. 

If she's not squatted before, please start her stupidly light, and with goblets so she learns to get her ass BACK there. 

Let us know how she does!


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## PreMier (Jan 22, 2009)

oh sorry, i replaced them with goblets as well after reading the article.


Warm-up:
	Ankle mobility drill
Heel to glute raises
	Knee raises
	Shoulder circles

Workout:	

6-9 reps 2-3 sets, need to increase connective tissue strength, develop your stabilizer muscles and intermuscular coordination skills
 focus: form and developing proper motor patterns right from the start. 60-120sec RI’s

Template:
	Monday – Wednesday – Saturday
	Week 1: A, B, A
	Week 2: B, A, B

Workout A - Push:
Lower body push: goblet squat

Upper body vertical push: bench press 

Lower body push: stepups

Upper body horizontal push: standing DB press

Workout B - Pull:
Lower body pull: deadlifts

Upper body horizontal pull: bent bb rows

Lower body pull: hypers

Upper body vertical pull: pulldowns

Cardio:
	Ten minutes (low impact)


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## Built (Jan 22, 2009)

For the cardio, may I suggest incline walking? It's low impact and pushes blood through a flexed glute so heart stroke comes up fast!

Also, for an older person such as myself, pushing vertical AND horizontal on the same day is a lot of RC strain. I get injured too fast. 

Would you consider vertical pushing with vertical pulling, and horizontal pushing with horizontal pulling?


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## PreMier (Jan 22, 2009)

like so?  does she need cuff work?  i've had to do it in the past, but again im young   what degree incline walk? does it matter?

Workout A - Push:
Lower body push: goblet squat

Upper body vertical push: bench press 

Lower body push: step-ups

Upper body vertical pull: negative self-assisted chins

Workout B - Pull:
Lower body pull: deadlifts

Upper body horizontal pull: bent bb rows

Lower body pull: hypers

Upper body horizontal push: standing DB press

Cardio:
	Ten minutes (incline walking)


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## Built (Jan 22, 2009)

You mixed up vertical and horizontal pushing, but what you have is fine.

If she does push and pull she should be fine. I generally start with pull - so if I'm doing lats and delts, I do lats first. If I'm doing rows and bench, I do rows first. Warms me up a bit. 

Choose an incline she can maintain for the duration. Or read the "cardio if you must" article linked in the workout I gave you and look for "hill repeats" as another suggestion, although for heavy hill workouts I do them on a non-training day.

You can also look at "8 seconds of doom" - it's a great way to introduce interval work to her when she's ready, since it's low impact and you can ease into it nicely, even while obese. 

Not too soon though- one thing at a time. 

For now, try a 2-5%grade, say 3-3.5 MPH.


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## PreMier (Jan 22, 2009)

ok, on A day just switch the vertical pull/push.

i appreciate the help


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## Built (Jan 22, 2009)

This is a very good thing you are doing. 

I'd be interested to see what the nutritionist recommends for her diet. Whatever you do, the kindest thing you can tell her is that she can't exercise off the weight. The lifting will direct calorie traffic toward muscle and improve insulin sensitivity, as will the post workout cardio. 

She'll be stronger, tighter and healthier from exercise. 

She'll be LIGHTER from eating fewer calories. 

Just like everybody else.


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## PreMier (Jan 27, 2009)

ok, we did the first workout today.  did the warmup, and everything seemed good.  i could tell just warming up was a bit of a workout for her.

*goblet squat*
ok, i had her hold a 4lb medicine ball for these.  here is the thing though, she did a few reps, but she couldnt keep her heels on the ground.. and after a few reps, she couldnt get up under leg power.  so i had her go down slow on the eccentric part of the lift with just bodyweight, but still the same problem?  any advise?

*negative self-assisted chins*
she did good on these, 2 sets 6 reps RI=120

*step-ups*
she did ok on these too.  she said her legs felt like jell-o.  we used a pretty small platform, maybe 10-12". 8 reps per leg, 2 sets RI=120

*bench press*
used a 20lb bar for these, 2 sets 10 reps.  said that they were light, so will increase the weight next time. RI=120

had her walk for 5 mins 2.5% grade, 3mph for some cardio then we stretched.

the only thing im wondering about is her form on squatting and what i should do


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## PreMier (Jan 27, 2009)

oh and she seems to have a good diet, eating lots of clean foods, 5 meals a day


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## Built (Jan 27, 2009)

Squat form - she has to get her ass WAY back. She's doing deep-knee bends if her heels are coming off the ground.

As Gray Cook writes:

"A child does not learn to squat from the top down - in other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and makes the conscious decision to stand."

Cook goes on to recommend this strategy in teaching the squat.

I might further suggest you set a low box or stool behind her and have her sit on it, then stand. Set it a little too far behind her so she has to reach back and down in order to sit upon it, just like box squats. Remind her to use her arms out in front of her to counterbalance. Have her hold a dumbbell - it's easier to grip that way.

How many calories is she eating and what macronutrient mix is she getting in? 5 meals might not be a very comfortable weight-loss diet. Many do better with fewer, but larger meals. Women often feel more comfortable on lower carb diets, and while significantly overfat, higher fats. This was my own experience when my parameters were similar to hers - I started at age 38, 170 lbs (at 5'7") and quite insulin resistant.


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## Yanick (Jan 28, 2009)

PreMier said:


> she has no physical problems, other then sometimes she gets winded (as far as she knows she doesnt have asthma), and her ankles/lower legs get tired and achy.



When was the last time she had a physical? I don't want to scare you or her but these *might possibly* be symptoms of cardiac decompensation or a vascular dysfunction/pathology...or the beginning of one. I'd personally have her be cleared by a doc before starting anything very strenuous (some light stuff would still be fine though).


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## PreMier (Jan 28, 2009)

Yanick said:


> When was the last time she had a physical? I don't want to scare you or her but these *might possibly* be symptoms of cardiac decompensation or a vascular dysfunction/pathology...or the beginning of one. I'd personally have her be cleared by a doc before starting anything very strenuous (some light stuff would still be fine though).



i dont want to be a dick, because i like you.. but, every post that you post tells someone to go to the doctor.. and what, arent you in the medical field now?


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## PreMier (Jan 28, 2009)

Built said:


> Squat form - she has to get her ass WAY back. She's doing deep-knee bends if her heels are coming off the ground.
> 
> As Gray Cook writes:
> 
> ...



ok, will do.  thanks for the read



> How many calories is she eating and what macronutrient mix is she getting in? 5 meals might not be a very comfortable weight-loss diet. Many do better with fewer, but larger meals. Women often feel more comfortable on lower carb diets, and while significantly overfat, higher fats. This was my own experience when my parameters were similar to hers - I started at age 38, 170 lbs (at 5'7") and quite insulin resistant.


im really not sure.  i talked to her a little about diet, but not much.  she is eating 5 times a day.. all clean foods, like chicken, fish and steak.. along with green veggies and low gi carbs like sweet potatoes and steel cut oats, etc.  the person she is working with is a certified nutritionist.. and she said without working out she lost 6 lbs in 3 weeks.


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## Built (Jan 28, 2009)

I understand about the nutritionist. Thing is, I wouldn't have an overweight woman eating oatmeal and sweet potatoes. 

Watch her. If she stops losing and or has trouble with hunger, let me know.


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## PreMier (Jan 28, 2009)

PreMier said:


> i dont want to be a dick, because i like you.. but, every post that you post tells someone to go to the doctor.. and what, arent you in the medical field now?



sorry.. had a bad day.  if your genuinely concerned then pm me.  but she has had one recently.


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## PreMier (Jan 28, 2009)

Built said:


> I understand about the nutritionist. Thing is, I wouldn't have an overweight woman eating oatmeal and sweet potatoes.
> 
> Watch her. If she stops losing and or has trouble with hunger, let me know.


ok, and i will try and get a breakdown of what she's eating (macros)


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## Built (Jan 28, 2009)

Awesome. Thanks for the trust. 

2 lbs a week at first is reasonable, but it slows down fast. The first bit is often just water dropping off as she transitions out of an inflammatory state - with a cleaned up diet, she's less inflamed and therefore less bloated.

Please let her know that another middle-aged broad who's "been there" said that a half a pound to a pound a week, on average, is an EXCELLENT rate of weight loss - the kind that STAYS off, because it's not just weight, it's fat. 

If she gets discouraged by that, tell her to stop watching biggest loser. What they have those poor souls go through is often inhumane.


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## Yanick (Jan 28, 2009)

PreMier said:


> i dont want to be a dick, because i like you.. but, every post that you post tells someone to go to the doctor.. and what, arent you in the medical field now?



You never know. My cousin's daughter only symptom was sometimes getting winded, she was also a bit overweight so i'm sure many doctors just wrote if off as such. Turned out she had a congenital birth defect called an Atrial Septal Defect which was surgically repaired without any complications.

Lower leg achiness/pain is a classic sign of peripheral vascular disease especially if it happens with activity.

Now i'm just saying it might be, especially an older, inactive woman. You are getting good advice about everything else from other people so i just wanted to throw that in there, not trying to diagnose or anything, just telling you to let her know to have her bases covered.

And yes dude i'm a graduate nurse awaiting to get licensed. I tell people in the general health forum to see docs because we cannot help them over the internet, just like you can't teach someone to squat on this forum you refer them to a qualified professional.

Oh and no offense taken dude. The thing is with the medical field, process of elimination is key. You first eliminate the most dangerous etiologies and go from there. Sore it could be some kind of serious problem but then again it could just be she is out of shape and sore...would you really want to take that chance if she hasn't had a physical in years (its not uncommon)?

EDIT: Okay one more thing. Yes i'm getting a bit defensive but bear with me. My friend's father just died of hemosepsis (actually multiple organ failure stemming from the hemosepsis). He had a stomach ache for a couple of days. He thought it was a virus or something, nothing special. One day it got pretty bad but he still refused to see a doctor or go the ER. My friend found him lying on the floor in the bathroom unable to move from the pain. He went to the ER, turns out he ruptured his intestines, got perotinitis (infection/inflammation of the abdominal or perotineal cavity) and was already septic. It was too late, they couldn't save him. He passed away a few weeks ago because he thought he had a stomach ache. If he would've even called a doc on the phone he would've been referred somewhere and might be alive.


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## PreMier (Jan 29, 2009)

Yanick said:


> <snip>



im going to respectfully ask that we keep this thread on track and about her training.  i already said i was having a bad day. i dont want to seem rude, but i am helping her workout, thats it.  im not a doctor, nor do i want to be one.. from what she told me she is healthy, if she has issues, she can take them up with her own doctor, at her own accord.  if you have anything further pm me.. capiche?


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## PreMier (Jan 29, 2009)

warmups

deadlifts (sumo)
i tried to have her do normal(rdl) deads, but she was too sore to squat down.. so i had her do sumo style.  could probably increase the weight next time 2 sets 10/8 reps 40lbs RI=90

bent bb rows
form was decent here, just had to make sure she kept her shoulder blades back.  2 sets RI=90 25x10 35x10

hypers
i dont have a lot of patience lol.. so it was nice to work on something without form  she did bodyweight x 8reps 2 sets RI=90

standing db press
10lbs x 8 reps 2 sets RI=90  she needed a bit of a spot on these, 10lbs was a little heavy.  form was decent, again needs to keep her shoulder blades together, and bring arms back some more.

6 minute walk, 3% grade, 3mph


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## Built (Jan 30, 2009)

You're finding it amazing how weak she is, aren't you?

I was at least this weak when I started. It took me a year to squat a plate a side. I started with the barbell and it damned near killed me - I had to back it down (once I could WALK again, three days later!) to 8 lb dumbbells. Took me three months to work my way UP to the barbell. 

Took me two years to do a pushup. 

Took me three years to chin myself. 

You're very kind to do this.


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## PreMier (Feb 3, 2009)

Built said:


> You're finding it amazing how weak she is, aren't you?
> 
> I was at least this weak when I started. It took me a year to squat a plate a side. I started with the barbell and it damned near killed me - I had to back it down (once I could WALK again, three days later!) to 8 lb dumbbells. Took me three months to work my way UP to the barbell.
> 
> ...



this is hard to believe.. lol  i mean looking at you now, it looks like you have done this forever!  i think what you've accomplished is amazing.. and all the help you provide is that much better. thanks

yea, i have always been pretty strong.. and i get strong fast as well when i stay consistent.  so its hard to believe how weak she is, but she is learning, and i dont have anything to compare it to.. so its new to me.

here is last saturdays w/o

A
box squat
bwx7/6
she did good at these.. except she would plop down at the last part.  she said her legs were really sore so went easy.  i think i will have her do these to get proper form down RI=120

negative self asst chins
bwx6/6
did well on these also RI=120

step ups
bwx9/9
might need to increase the weight on these, or use a bit of a taller box.  i just dont want her to fall and get hurt. RI=120

bench press bb
30x9 45x8
she seems to have good pressing power.. so i think we will stick with the 45 for a bit, then lower the ri's.  RI=90


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## PreMier (Feb 3, 2009)

today

warmup(sometimes i dont note it but we warmup each workout)

SLDL
40x10 50x8/8
focused a lot on form here.. im dropping the deadlift for these, because she has a hard time squatting down.  her quads are very weak.

bent bb rows
35x8/8/8
great form on these today, i thing doing sldl's before hand helped with that.

hypers
bwx8/8/8

standing db press
10x8/8
form was better here as well.  she is learning to keep that nice little arch in the back, and shoulder blades back.  this was kind of heavy for her.

RI's were 90s across the board

walked 5 mins 3% grade/3mph


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## Built (Feb 3, 2009)

PreMier said:


> this is hard to believe.. lol  i mean looking at you now, it looks like you have done this forever!  i think what you've accomplished is amazing.. and all the help you provide is that much better. thanks



People who knew me before and run into me now are often shocked when they see me. I'm still charmed with what I've been able to do, even in middle age - and glad I can help. Women like how I was don't have a lot of peers.



PreMier said:


> yea, i have always been pretty strong.. and i get strong fast as well when i stay consistent.  so its hard to believe how weak she is, but she is learning, and i dont have anything to compare it to.. so its new to me.


On my other board, the women have a thread where we post up our "little bitch" weights, so we can see where others started and where they are now. 

It is REALLY different for us. Women usually notice the functional strength more than men do. 

Put it this way: most men can probably change the water bottle in an office cooler, right? When I do it, it draws a crowd - and I remember not being able to do it. 



PreMier said:


> here is last saturdays w/o
> 
> A
> box squat
> ...





PreMier said:


> today
> 
> warmup(sometimes i dont note it but we warmup each workout)


What do you do with her for warmup, by the way?



PreMier said:


> SLDL
> 40x10 50x8/8
> focused a lot on form here.. im dropping the deadlift for these, because she has a hard time squatting down.  her quads are very weak.



Good call - and if I might make a further recommendation, use RDLs instead of SLDLs. They're just a way better movement: the barbell is right up close to the body, no lower-back torque, good arch kept throughout the movement, great for the hammies and erectors, and she'll LOVE what it does for her ass. Eventually. 

(Ignore this if your version of SLDLs looks like RDLs)



PreMier said:


> bent bb rows
> 35x8/8/8
> great form on these today, i thing doing sldl's before hand helped with that.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't bother with hypers. Not with RDLs and bo rows. 



PreMier said:


> standing db press
> 10x8/8
> form was better here as well.  she is learning to keep that nice little arch in the back, and shoulder blades back.  this was kind of heavy for her.
> 
> ...



Nice - she's sticking with it. This reflects well on YOU.


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## PreMier (Feb 4, 2009)

Built said:


> What do you do with her for warmup, by the way?



ankle mobility drill/warmup
heel to glute raises
knee raises
shoulder circles/windmills
and some dynamic stretches




> I wouldn't bother with hypers. Not with RDLs and bo rows.
> 
> Nice - she's sticking with it. This reflects well on YOU.



yea, sldl is similar to rdl's.  what would you do instead of hypers?


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## Built (Feb 4, 2009)

Cool about the warmup and the RDL thing.

No need for hypers. Her lower back is getting it with the deads.


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