# Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class War Yet



## LAM (Apr 27, 2013)

This week, David Segal at the New York Times [3] broke the news to America that not only was Apple -- the computer and gadget manufacturer formerly seen as a symbol of good old American ingenuity -- making its profits on the backs of abused factory workers in China, but also on poorly paid store employees here in the US.

Apple store workers, he wrote, make up a large majority of Apple's US workforce?30,000 out of 43,000 employees in this country?and they make about $25,000 a year, or about $12 an hour.

Lawrence Mishel at the Economic Policy Institute [4] notes that that's just a dollar above the federal poverty level. This for a company that paid nine of its top executives a total of $441 million in 2011.

?The discrepancy between Apple?s profits/executive pay and its compensation to its workers is a particularly glaring example of what is occurring in the wider economy,? Mishel writes.

And he's right. Also this week, Henry Blodget at Business Insider posted three charts [5] that show just how out of whack our economic system really is. Corporate profits are now at an all-time high, while wages as a percent of the economy are at an all-time low, and fewer Americans are employed than at any time in the previous three decades.

Companies like Apple are squeezing their workers, leaving them to live on less, while lavishing pay and benefits on their executives. The death of lionized Apple chief Steve Jobs seems to have opened a floodgate of reporting and criticism of the company's labor practices, but all this really proves is that Jobs and his empire are no better than, and no different from the rest of the US business elite. Just like everyone else, they're taking their profits directly out of workers' pockets.

?One reason companies are so profitable is that they're paying employees less than they ever have as a share of GDP. And that, in turn, is one reason the economy is so weak: Those 'wages' are other companies' revenue,? Blodget points out. And high unemployment makes workers willing to accept those poverty wages. When you're desperate for a job, any job is better than nothing.

Right-wingers from Michele Bachmann [6] to Ron Paul [7] have used high unemployment as an opportunity to call for eliminating the minimum wage entirely, letting companies decide just how little they think their workers are worth. Companies love to claim that if they're forced to pay more, they'll have to eliminate jobs, but these numbers show that actually, they're able to keep wages low and refuse to hire; available cheap labor supposedly leads to more job creation, but it's the hollow, gnawing fear created by ongoing high unemployment that keeps wages low and workers passive. And the rich are getting ever richer.

The ?recession? is over?officially it ended in 2009 [8], but for most people the pain was just beginning. Real incomes have continued to fall, governments continue to slash budgets while corporate profits just keep going up. This is the new normal.

And it's only going to get worse.

The rhetoric of austerity, sounded loudest from Republicans but often echoed by far too many Democrats, is a language of belt-tightening, of shared sacrifice, of somber speeches by pompous politicians who proclaim that they feel your pain while announcing budget cuts that freeze salaries, lay off workers and force more work onto those who remain. And CEOs use that same language when sorrowfully explaining why they simply can't create jobs. Morgan Stanley's CEO, James Gorman [9], beset by New Yorkers at his bank's shareholder meeting, blamed the lousy economy when asked why he hadn't created the jobs his company had promised the city in exchange for massive tax breaks.

Because that's what rich corporations are able to buy with their record profits; politicians who turn around and hand them even more money, often in the form of tax breaks that hollow out city and state budgets and force even more austerity, even more social service cuts that fall on the backs of the same underpaid workers. (Remember FreshDirect [10], handed $129 million in tax subsidies to create $8-an-hour jobs?)

Corporate taxes, too?at least the ones corporations actually pay?are at a 40-year low [11], with an effective tax rate paid of 12.1 percent. They've fallen from about 6 percent of GDP to less than 2 percent, according to ThinkProgress's Pat Garofalo [12]. Once again, that's what you can buy when you'd rather pay politicians than your workers.

Chris Hayes, in his new book Twilight of the Elites, notes that the ultra-wealthy have spawned a whole ?income defense? industry dedicated to preserving their wealth and power, an industry that works tirelessly to push policies that favor the rich. He writes:

    Over the last decade, the political arm of the income defense industry has been wildly successful. The tax cuts passed by Bush and extended by Obama represent a total of $81.5 billion transferred from the state into the hands of the richest 1 percent. Meanwhile, hedge fund managers and their surrogates have deployed millions of dollars to lobbyists to maintain the so-called carried interest loophole, a provision of tax law that allows fund managers to classify much of their income drawn from investing gains as ?carried interest? so that it is taxed at the low capital gains rate of 15 percent, rather than the marginal income rate, which would in most cases be more than twice that. It was this wrinkle in the law that helped Mitt Romney, a man worth an estimated quarter of a billion dollars, pay an effective tax rate of just under 14 percent in 2010. In 2008, 2009, and 2010, the House of Representatives passed a bill closing the loophole, only to see it beaten back by an intense wave of lobbying in the Senate.

With Citizens United, the Supreme Court gave the ultra-rich yet another weapon in the class war, another tool by which to control our politics. MIT economist Daren Acemoglu told ThinkProgress [13], ?We already had a very serious problem. Instead of trying to stem that tide [of money in politics], we?ve done the opposite and we?ve now opened the sluice gate and said you can use that money with no restrictions whatsoever.?

It's bad enough when the rich use their money to buy themselves tax breaks that help them get even richer. But millionaires and billionaires from Bill Gates [14] to Betsy DeVos [15] to Mark Zuckerberg [16] are also putting money into pet political ideas; on education, for example, where their money buys them outsized influence over policy. Politics has become a playground for the ultra-rich, where they get to test their pet theories on the rest of us and we're expected to smile and thank them for their charity.

It's not just tax breaks and subsidies that have created massive inequality?it's also full-on war on the only means of organized power that working people ever had: unions. Private-sector union density hovers around 7 percent right now, after years of concerted attacks, and for the last couple of years public sector unions have been in the 1 percent's crosshairs.

From the Supreme Court [17], where Samuel Alito wrote a majority decision attacking unions' ability to collect money from workers they represent for political activity, to the reelection of Scott Walker in Wisconsin, public-sector unions are under pressure. Politicians keep slashing public-sector jobs [18], keeping unemployment high and tax revenues low, and stalling the recovery, but they're also part of the attack on the one part of the economy that still has a strong union culture.

As unions declined, so have wages for most people. The Center for American Progress [19] found in a study that as union membership decreases, so does the so-called middle class's share of national income. The middle class long served as a buffer [20] between those at the top and those at the bottom. As long as the majority of Americans were comfortable, had decent jobs and pensions, and could send their kids to school, the wealthy could stay wealthy and the poor were pretty much just ignored. And that middle class was built through decades of union agitation, not just for higher wages and healthcare benefits, but for the eight-hour day [21], for the weekend, for safety in the workplace and some job security.

But now the middle class has been hollowed out. Increasingly, there are the super-super-rich, and there are the rest of us.

As Hayes writes, we're ruled by an ever-smaller group of elites who not only control all the resources, but all the power. The same people who are pushing wages downward are the ones paying for politicians' campaigns, and they're the same people on the boards of directors and trustees of our universities, our institutions?like JP Morgan Chase's Jamie Dimon [22], who serves on the Board of Directors of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse, the Harvard Business School, Catalyst, as well as on the Board of Trustees of New York University School of Medicine.

*Meanwhile, for the vast majority of us, the recession that supposedly ended in 2009 looks more like a depression each day, and as long as low wages and high unemployment remain the order of the day, there's no recovery in sight. *

Corporate Profits at All-Time High; Wages at All-Time Low: Can We Call it Class War Yet? | Alternet


Corporate Profits Just Hit An All-Time High, Wages Just Hit An All-Time Low - Business Insider


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## exphys88 (Apr 27, 2013)

It's gonna trickle down soon...


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## Swiper (Apr 27, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*

all time high profits mostly were made overseas, not in the US.


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## Zaphod (Apr 28, 2013)

Swiper said:


> all time high profits mostly were made overseas, not in the US.



Can you back up that claim?


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## Swiper (Apr 28, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Zaphod said:


> Can you back up that claim?



yes


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## Little Wing (Apr 28, 2013)

Almost _all_ of the 70 million iPhones, 30 million iPads and 59 million other products Apple sold last year _were manufactured overseas_. 

that's why i don't give them a dime. HP to Apple: Hey, we already make PCs in the U.S. | Business Tech - CNET News

hp isn't perfect but at least they are trying.


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## hoyle21 (Apr 28, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Swiper said:


> yes



We're waiting....


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## Little Wing (Apr 28, 2013)

be interesting to know about any ripples of paranoia this class war has on the ultra rich. bet they have some bad ass security set ups. not sure if it's true but supposedly fear is rampant.


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## Zaphod (Apr 28, 2013)

Swiper said:


> yes



Then do so.


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## troubador (Apr 28, 2013)

Little Wing said:


> be interesting to know about any ripples of paranoia this class war has on the ultra rich. bet they have some bad ass security set ups. not sure if it's true but supposedly fear is rampant.



Have you read "The Good Earth"?


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## Swiper (Apr 28, 2013)

Offshore Cash Hoard Expands by $183 Billion at Companies - Bloomberg


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## Swiper (Apr 28, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*

Foreign Profits
Yet there is a more permanent reason for the decline that has to do with globalization: an increasing share of profits is now earned abroad and taxed more lightly than domestic profits, as Edward Kleinbard of the University of Southern California has underscored. Relative to domestic profits, foreign profits have been rising for several decades, and that trend is likely to continue.
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-22/as-foreign-profits-rise-corporate-tax-rates-fall.html


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## Zaphod (Apr 28, 2013)

Says nothing about profits mostly being made overseas.  Just that overseas profits are higher than last year.


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## Swiper (Apr 28, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*

^^. lol

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42927.pdf


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## Swiper (Apr 28, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Zaphod said:


> Says nothing about profits mostly being made overseas.  Just that overseas profits are higher than last year.



if I'm wrong prove it.


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## Swiper (Apr 28, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*

And another thing, like you libtards like to say corps don't pay taxes or pay very very low taxes why do they have their money overseas?


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## Zaphod (Apr 28, 2013)

Swiper said:


> if I'm wrong prove it.



You already proved it for me with your links.


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## Zaphod (Apr 28, 2013)

Swiper said:


> And another thing, like you libtards like to say corps don't pay taxes or pay very very low taxes why do they have their money overseas?



Read the tax code.


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## Swiper (Apr 28, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Zaphod said:


> Read the tax code.



"According to the CCH Standard Federal Tax Reporter, as of 2013, it now takes 73,954 regular 8-1/2" x 11" sheets of paper to explain the complexity of the U.S. federal tax code!"

I don't have time to read 74,000 pages. please enlighten me with your extensive knowledge of the tax code.


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## Swiper (Apr 28, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Zaphod said:


> You already proved it for me with your links.



lol.  I'll be waiting.....


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## Zaphod (Apr 28, 2013)

Swiper said:


> "According to the CCH Standard Federal Tax Reporter, as of 2013, it now takes 73,954 regular 8-1/2" x 11" sheets of paper to explain the complexity of the U.S. federal tax code!"
> 
> I don't have time to read 74,000 pages. please enlighten me with your extensive knowledge of the tax code.



I guess you better start reading.


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## Zaphod (Apr 28, 2013)

Swiper said:


> lol.  I'll be waiting.....



Read your links.  Apparently you didn't read them the first time around.


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## LAM (Apr 28, 2013)

Swiper said:


> And another thing, like you libtards like to say corps don't pay taxes or pay very very low taxes why do they have their money overseas?



geez I don't know maybe because US banks are paying less than 1% APR on deposit accounts and low rates even on fixed rate terms accounts and the real rate of inflation is closer to 4.5% annually.  US savers are being punished with artificially low interest rates to fuel excess debt based consumption.  this only started in the 80's and the interest rates have increasingly decreased as the real US economy has continually gotten worst and worst.

US Bank Accounts - Compare Bank Account Deposit Interest Rates

the only tard around here is you the person that knows absolutely nothing about everything....


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## oufinny (Apr 28, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*

Anyone who can't see the wage stagnation and how what we are paid goes a very short distance is a retard. Swiper, you're fucking retarded, read the facts and stop taking your info from the media that distorts the facts.


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## exphys88 (Apr 28, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



oufinny said:


> Anyone who can't see the wage stagnation and how what we are paid goes a very short distance is a retard. Swiper, you're fucking retarded, read the facts and stop taking your info from the media that distorts the facts.



We need to make sure the job creators are not paying taxes, paid in tens of millions of dollars annually, and the workers are paid barely above poverty, no medical benefits, and no pension.

The wealth will trickle down....trust me


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## Swiper (Apr 28, 2013)

oufinny said:


> Anyone who can't see the wage stagnation and how what we are paid goes a very short distance is a retard. Swiper, you're fucking retarded, read the facts and stop taking your info from the media that distorts the facts.



you're so confused.  where did i state that low wages in not a problem?  Or better yet, when did i even mention anything about wages?????   try reading my posts next time, moron.


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## oufinny (Apr 28, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



exphys88 said:


> We need to make sure the job creators are not paying taxes, paid in tens of millions of dollars annually, and the workers are paid barely above poverty, no medical benefits, and no pension.
> 
> The wealth will trickle down....trust me



Yep. My last company just got rid of all the most experienced people, kept the ass kissing low paid dipshits and all the execs got raises, big raises.  Honestly, all these public companies can go fuck themselves; they are all just pawns on the globalist chess board.


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## Swiper (Apr 28, 2013)

LAM said:


> geez I don't know maybe because US banks are paying less than 1% APR on deposit accounts and low rates even on fixed rate terms accounts and the real rate of inflation is closer to 4.5% annually.  US savers are being punished with artificially low interest rates to fuel excess debt based consumption.  this only started in the 80's and the interest rates have increasingly decreased as the real US economy has continually gotten worst and worst.
> 
> US Bank Accounts - Compare Bank Account Deposit Interest Rates
> 
> the only tard around here is you the person that knows absolutely nothing about everything....



they keep their money overseas not because of taxes? the tax code has no effect about why they keep their money overseas? lol


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## exphys88 (Apr 28, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



oufinny said:


> Yep. My last company just got rid of all the most experienced people, kept the ass kissing low paid dipshits and all the execs got raises, big raises.  Honestly, all these public companies can go fuck themselves; they are all just pawns on the globalist chess board.



Unions...


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## Swiper (Apr 28, 2013)

Zaphod said:


> Read the tax code.



so the reason is taxes?


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## Swiper (Apr 28, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



oufinny said:


> Yep. My last company just got rid of all the most experienced people, kept the ass kissing low paid dipshits and all the execs got raises, big raises.  Honestly, all these public companies can go fuck themselves; they are all just pawns on the globalist chess board.



why don't you start your own company so you don't have to deal with that kind of shit?  then you can pay your employees huge wages like you want.


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## LAM (Apr 28, 2013)

Swiper said:


> all time high profits mostly were made overseas, not in the US.



the majority of those profits from US large firms is still being earned in the US.  an antiquated US corporate tax code allows capital to be shifted easily overseas to low tax districts strictly for tax avoidance.

More U.S. Profits Stay Abroad, Saving on Taxes - WSJ.com


Top U.S. Firms Are Cash-Rich Abroad, Cash-Poor at Home - WSJ.com


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## Swiper (Apr 28, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



LAM said:


> the majority of those profits from US large firms is still being earned in the US.  an antiquated US corporate tax code allows capital to be shifted easily overseas to low tax districts strictly for tax avoidance.
> 
> More U.S. Profits Stay Abroad, Saving on Taxes - WSJ.com
> 
> ...



it says nothing about profits being shifted from the US to overseas. it says profits "stay" abroad.   key word here is, stay.


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## Zaphod (Apr 28, 2013)

Swiper said:


> so the reason is taxes?



The reason is the tax code.  It lets corporations get away with hiding money to pay less taxes.  You should be smart enough to know this already.


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## Swiper (Apr 28, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Zaphod said:


> The reason is the tax code.  It lets corporations get away with hiding money to pay less taxes.  You should be smart enough to know this already.



correct, but I'm asking why they don't bring the profits back to the US? ummm could it be because they'll get taxed too much on it?   Your mentor, teacher, master, the person you bow down to, LAM, disagrees with you.  he suggests  taxes have no effect on why they don't bring profits to the US.


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## Zaphod (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> correct, but I'm asking why they don't bring the profits back to the US? ummm could it be because they'll get taxed too much on it?   Your mentor, teacher, master, the person you bow down to, LAM, disagrees with you.  he suggests  taxes have no effect on why they don't bring profits to the US.



So why don't they bring profits back to the US?  You hint that you have the answers but have yet to produce.


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## Swiper (Apr 29, 2013)

Zaphod said:


> So why don't they bring profits back to the US?  You hint that you have the answers but have yet to produce.




finally you disagree with LAM and get a mind of your own and agree the main reason is taxes. congrats!  how does it feel to think for yourself for once instead of hanging on LAMs nuts?


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## Zaphod (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> finally you disagree with LAM and get a mind of your own and agree the main reason is taxes. congrats!  how does it feel to think for yourself for once instead of hanging on LAMs nuts?



Taxes are only a part of the problem.  A small part.


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## DOMS (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> Offshore Cash Hoard Expands by $183 Billion at Companies - Bloomberg



I'd never looked into where US companies made their money. I checked on IBM. "$100 billion in revenue, 64 percent from overseas." Boeing, "$64 billion in revenue, 41 percent from overseas."  Dow Chemical, "$54 billion in revenue, 67 percent from overseas." Intel, "$44 billion in revenue, 85 percent from overseas." Amazon, "$34 billion in revenue, 45 percent from overseas." McDonald's, "$24 billion in revenue, 66 percent from overseas." Nike, "$21 billion in revenue, 50 percent from overseas."

Interesting...


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## LAM (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> and get a mind of your own



and you should take your own advice, maybe read an economic paper or brief or 2 and stop being the parrot for right wing political economic talking points.  which are never supported by historical, empirical data or any respectable economists in the US or world.


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## LAM (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> finally you disagree with LAM and get a mind of your own and agree the main reason is taxes. congrats!  how does it feel to think for yourself for once instead of hanging on LAMs nuts?



once again your utter ignorance of US economic history shines through. what happened when US large firms were given a tax holiday in 2004?

they rewarded US workers with pink slips and used those money's for stock buybacks the exact thing the promised not to do.

Report: Repatriation Tax Holiday a 'Failed' Policy - WSJ.com

Tax Holiday for Overseas Corporate Profits Would Increase Deficits, Fail to Boost the Economy, and Ultimately Shift More Investment and Jobs Overseas — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

US large firms hoarding cash overseas and not being able to bring those overseas profits back into the US didn't cause the economic environment we have today so it is not the cause...wow look at that basic critical thinking skills work when applied to economics


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## Swiper (Apr 29, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Zaphod said:


> Taxes are only a part of the problem.  A small part.



oh so now its a small part? then why did you tell me to read the tax code if thats just a small part?  now you're  changing your tune to satisfy LAM.  lol.  pathetic. 

 so what are all the reasons they keep profits overseas?


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## Swiper (Apr 29, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



LAM said:


> and you should take your own advice, maybe read an economic paper or brief or 2 and stop being the parrot for right wing political economic talking points.  which are never supported by historical, empirical data or any respectable economists in the US or world.



lol this coming from someone who voted for Obama,  twice!  lmao!!


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## LAM (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> lol this coming from someone who voted for Obama,  twice!  lmao!!



yes stupid me I voted against deficit increasing supply-side recession causing voodoo economics.  I voted against the economic policy's that have put the US into a death spiral.  I voted against winner-take all economic policy, , how misinformed I am for having paid attention to US economic history.


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## Arnold (Apr 29, 2013)

exphys88 said:


> It's gonna trickle down soon...


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## Arnold (Apr 29, 2013)

I just don't understand people, unless you're a multi-millionaire *Republicans will NEVER help your economic situation.*


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## LAM (Apr 29, 2013)

Prince said:


> I just don't understand people, unless you're a multi-millionaire *Republicans will NEVER help your economic situation.*



the GOP has mastered the art of misinformation when it comes to economic policy.  but that comes back to conservative ideology being the "default" ideology because it requires not much thought when making quick decisions and only looking at few details or pieces of information.  a lot of conservative economic ideas/policy "sound" good but when analyzed they have the exact opposite effects at the macro level.


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## Bowden (Apr 29, 2013)

oufinny said:


> Yep. My last company just got rid of all the most experienced people, kept the ass kissing low paid dipshits and all the execs got raises, big raises.  Honestly, all these public companies can go fuck themselves; they are all just pawns on the globalist chess board.



Wait a minute.
You actually expect any executive or corporation to act any way except in their/ it's own best self interests?
The days of any type of paternalist corporate relationship towards an employee are long dead and gone.
Now every employee is considered a corporate tool of production object only, looked at by upper level executives as only a cost ratio number on a fall planning resource spreadsheet.
One to be manipulated and utilized based on their meeting productivity output numbers based on wall street eps forecasts and their personal quarterly/yearly bonus targets.

Now it's everyone for themselves and survival of the fittest.


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## Swiper (Apr 29, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



LAM said:


> yes stupid me I voted against deficit increasing supply-side recession causing voodoo economics.  I voted against the economic policy's that have put the US into a death spiral.  I voted against winner-take all economic policy, , how misinformed I am for having paid attention to US economic history.


 
Obama is nothing but Bush x 2. 

are you forgetting Obama signed off on the bush tax cuts?  my god you're  dumb. 

against deficit Increasing?  lol.  Obama took office our debt was 10 trillion its now close to 17 trillion.  he hasn't vetoed a single spending bill. he thinks our debt is not a problem.  he's just as out of touch with reality as you.  so I can see why you relate to him. 

you think Obama is actually gonna change anything?  lmao.  

even prince knows he can't change anything or else he'd vote, like he constantly says.  

now your true colors are coming out. about fucking time.   you align yourself with the democRATS as you're just another sheep in the herd.  move along......


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## Swiper (Apr 29, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Bowden said:


> Wait a minute.
> You actually expect any executive or corporation to act any way except in their/ it's own best self interests?
> The days of any type of paternalist corporate relationship towards an employee are long dead and gone.
> Now every employee is considered a corporate tool of production object only, looked at by upper level executives as only a cost ratio number on a fall planning resource spreadsheet.
> ...



I totally agree.  that's why you can't rely on anyone but yourself.  self employment is the way to go.


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## Bowden (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> I totally agree.  that's why you can't rely on anyone but yourself.  self employment is the way to go.



People that don't understand that self reliance is the first law of survival become victims that rant against the man.
They always seem to have their hand out looking for a handout.
For some reason they seem to think that life should always be fair.
They make me wonder as to what planet they live on.


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## LAM (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> Obama is nothing but Bush x 2.
> 
> are you forgetting Obama signed off on the bush tax cuts?  my god you're  dumb.
> 
> ...



once again your overly simplistic analysis of information shines when all of the data clearly shows the increase in the deficit was not from legislation but from the effects of the economic downturn as is clearly shown in a number of reports I have posted time and time again.

I know I didn't say nor have ever stated that Obama was going to change anything for the better.  But what I have always stated is that the Dems would not make the economy worst with more unsustainable growth caused by financial deregulation or further deregulation of the markets.  because it's not like we don't have 30 years of data showing the effects of that.

history clearly shows the the economic policy of the GOP has been nothing except disastrous for the working class in the US.  so yes I will continue to vote for economic policy that is the least detrimental. the economic policy that is more in line with the leading economists inside and outside the US and with historical data.

shame on me


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## troubador (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> Obama is nothing but Bush x 2.
> 
> are you forgetting Obama signed off on the bush tax cuts?  my god you're  dumb.
> 
> ...



LAM openly admits that nothing can be done. I don't know why you guys bother arguing with someone who believes even their own policies won't work. Let's say he's right and nothing can be done, then they're is still no point in arguing.


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## LAM (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> I totally agree.  that's why you can't rely on anyone but yourself.  self employment is the way to go.



self employment is not an option for everyone and if you ever bothered to read any of the reports on small business from the SBA you would know that only a small percentage of US small business actually turn a profit.  so for many going from even stagnant wages at a large firm to less income from self-employment does not better their economic outlook.

the #1 reason why the US economy has recovered so slowly from the 2008 economic downturn is a lack of demand for goods and services.  so the current economy would be one of the worst times for most to actually start a small business.


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## LAM (Apr 29, 2013)

troubador said:


> LAM openly admits that nothing can be done. I don't know why you guys bother arguing with someone who believes even their own policies won't work. Let's say he's right and nothing can be done, then they're is still no point in arguing.



no what I stated is that what needs to be done will not be done.  do you see US large firms "voluntarily" increasing wages when they don't have to?  when they can squeeze more productivity out of fewer workers keeping the flow of profits flowing upwards. when the record low labor union density rate in the US has enabled wages to be forced downward.  US economic history clearly shows that US large firms do not voluntary do the "right thing" when it comes to the health of the real economy.  the last person to do the right thing during a bad economy was Henry Ford when he "voluntarily" increased the wages of his workers.  but the US of 2013 is vastly different from that of 1915.

there are solutions that can be written out on paper and talked about and those that can actually be carried out in the reality that we live in, that's the difference.  that is why the US economy is in a death spiral because what needs to be done will not be done not by the left and certainly not by the right.  as I have stated time and time again it's a slow walk off a cliff with the left and a sprint with the economic policies of the right.


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## Swiper (Apr 29, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



troubador said:


> LAM openly admits that nothing can be done. I don't know why you guys bother arguing with someone who believes even their own policies won't work. Let's say he's right and nothing can be done, then they're is still no point in arguing.



but it's fun arguing with LAM.  .   it's funny how he votes for politicians who support policies that LAM thinks wont work.  I'm sure it all makes perfect sense in his twisted mind.


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## LAM (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> but it's fun arguing with LAM.  .   it's funny how he votes for politicians who support policies that LAM thinks wont work.  I'm sure it all makes perfect sense in his twisted mind.



yes my twisted mind that is the result of thousands & thousands of hours of research from papers and briefs written by leading economists inside and outside the US and your is based on the rhetoric of political economics from right wing politicians which are never supported by empirical data.

name just one economic policy of the right which has had a positive effect on "sustainable" economic growth than can be supported with empirical or historical data.


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## Arnold (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> Obama is nothing but Bush x 2.
> 
> are you forgetting Obama signed off on the bush tax cuts?  my god you're  dumb.
> 
> ...



dude, do realize how fucking stupid LAM makes you look in all of these political threads? lol


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## Arnold (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> but it's fun arguing with LAM.  .   it's funny how he votes for politicians who support policies that LAM thinks wont work.  I'm sure it all makes perfect sense in his twisted mind.



maybe if you actually presented a valid argument with facts behind it.


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## IronAddict (Apr 29, 2013)

Both of you no prize winning mutha phuqas, we're all screwed.


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## Arnold (Apr 29, 2013)

IronAddict said:


> Both of you no prize winning mutha phuqas, we're all screwed.



if u rely on the US government then yes, I don't rely on them for shit, never will either, nor will I ever work for someone again.


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## troubador (Apr 29, 2013)

LAM said:


> no what I stated is that what needs to be done will not be done.  do you see US large firms "voluntarily" increasing wages when they don't have to?



Your solution is to make the economy more consumption based and that's suppose to save it in the long run?


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## IronAddict (Apr 29, 2013)

Prince said:


> if u rely on the US government then yes, I don't rely on them for shit, never will either, nor will I ever work for someone again.



Agree. 

I hear you, just pave my streets, deliver my mail but don't involve me in your nation building schemes.


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## Swiper (Apr 29, 2013)

Prince said:


> dude, do realize how fucking stupid LAM makes you look in all of these political threads? lol




if you subscribe to LAMs socialist way of thought, then yes.   Do i care, no.  I'm a mental midget (not a muscle midget like you & LAM ) when it comes to politics and economics.  I admit that. I have no problem saying that. I like to challenge those who think they know everything about everything like our dear friend LAM. Yeah LAM knows a lot, (mostly google copy and paste pawing it off as his own) but i still think the libertarian way is the best course for our country. nothing he says will change my view on that. 

do you realize how fucking stupid you look when you complain about the US political, economic system yet you do absolutely nothing about it especially by not voting?   You don't vote yet complain how fucked up things are. why don't you get off your ass and do something about it instead of complain complain complain. If you don't care then STFU.

if it makes you guys feel good beating up on a mental midget then you have bigger issues to deal with than politics.


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## Zaphod (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> oh so now its a small part? then why did you tell me to read the tax code if thats just a small part?  now you're  changing your tune to satisfy LAM.  lol.  pathetic.
> 
> so what are all the reasons they keep profits overseas?



You tell me, you've supposedly got the answers.


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## Swiper (Apr 29, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Zaphod said:


> You tell me, you've supposedly got the answers.



no I don't. educate me.


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## Arnold (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> do you realize how fucking stupid you look when you complain about the US political, economic system yet you do absolutely nothing about it especially by not voting?   You don't vote yet complain how fucked up things are. why don't you get off your ass and do something about it instead of complain complain complain. If you don't care then STFU.



I am wise to know we the people cannot change shit in this country, voting is nothing but an illusion the government gives the people thinking that they actually have a say in things. YOU DON'T!

I am all for Capitalism and democracy, the problem is our government is so corrupt that it's not a level playing field, big corporations get bailed out, CEO's make millions and the taxpayers pay for all of it.

*and it's not very nice or smart to tell the owner/admin of this place to STFU.*


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## Arnold (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> no I don't. educate me.



If you would read LAM's posts he has been trying to.


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## Swiper (Apr 29, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Prince said:


> I am wise to know we the people cannot change shit in this country, voting is nothing but an illusion the government gives the people thinking that they actually have a say in things. YOU DON'T!
> 
> I am all for Capitalism and democracy, the problem is our government is so corrupt that it's not a level playing field, big corporations get bailed out, CEO's make millions and the taxpayers pay for all of it.
> 
> *and it's not very nice or smart to tell the owner/admin of this place to STFU.*




it's not nice to tell your members who buy and support your sponsors products  that their stupid.

you're taking things too seriously


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## Zaphod (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> it's not nice to tell your members who buy and support your sponsors products  that their stupid.
> 
> you're taking things too seriously



He's just calling a spade a spade.


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## LAM (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> if you subscribe to LAMs socialist way of thought, then yes.   Do i care, no.  I'm a mental midget (not a muscle midget like you & LAM ) when it comes to politics and economics.  I admit that. I have no problem saying that. I like to challenge those who think they know everything about everything like our dear friend LAM. Yeah LAM knows a lot, (mostly google copy and paste pawing it off as his own) but i still think the libertarian way is the best course for our country. nothing he says will change my view on that.
> 
> do you realize how fucking stupid you look when you complain about the US political, economic system yet you do absolutely nothing about it especially by not voting?   You don't vote yet complain how fucked up things are. why don't you get off your ass and do something about it instead of complain complain complain. If you don't care then STFU.
> 
> if it makes you guys feel good beating up on a mental midget then you have bigger issues to deal with than politics.



nice radical brain you have there.  I speak out against crony capitalism so by default I "must be a socialist" nice complete lack of critical thinking skills you have there ever heard of the grey area that lies between those two schools of thought? because that's were I live.  we live in a country were demoracy is sold to the highest bidder so unless a person has a couple billion they are willing to spend for the good of the country a voice with no money behind it does nothing.  and that is the problem with allowing private capital to have the same voice as a person you end up with an economy and democracy like we have in the US today.

what you radicals fail to see if that the positive effects of capitalism are all gone, there is no more it's all bad from here on out with the negative economic policy that has been enacted in the US in past decades and the US democracy which is for sale to the highest bidder.   once again the law of diminishing returns proves to hold true in regards to even the most basic economic functions.  when you have an economy in which gains of income and wealth are *EXTREMELY unequal* and not by the natural progression of the markets but via intentional manipulation such as the growth of the US financial sector eventually as history has shown that economy will eventually collapse.  it's a house of cards, as long as demand is high and that need is meet with enough goods and services from the supply side the economy functions.  but when demand drops due to the inability of workers to pay for those goods and services commodity prices eventually drop and the whole house of cards comes crashing down.  and this is where the US is nearing right now and why the FED pouring trillions of dollars into the coffers of capitalists at the top has not had a positive effect on economic growth, they are feeding the wrong side of the equation.  when looking at the essential functions of economics capital has the natural advantage over labor it needs no assistance.

libertarian beliefs once again "sound good in theory' but are not far from those of the current winner-take all economic doctrine, they totally disregard world history and human behavior.

and no I don't think I know everything but I know an awful lot about this subject which is why many confuse my extreme confidence with arrogance.  I'm sure if you had spent as much time as I have studying world history and economics you would be just as confident in your viewpoints and be more able to back them up with data that supports them if that information actually existed in reality which it does not.


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## Zaphod (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> no I don't. educate me.



People have been trying buy you won't listen.


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## Swiper (Apr 29, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Zaphod said:


> People have been trying buy you won't listen.



no I do. but you claimed to know and keep changing your answers. so figure out what lam would say and tell me, since all you do is hang on his nuts.


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## Swiper (Apr 29, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



LAM said:


> nice radical brain you have there.  I speak out against crony capitalism so by default I "must be a socialist" nice complete lack of critical thinking skills you have there ever heard of the grey area that lies between those two schools of thought? because that's were I live.  we live in a country were demoracy is sold to the highest bidder so unless a person has a couple billion they are willing to spend for the good of the country a voice with no money behind it does nothing.  and that is the problem with allowing private capital to have the same voice as a person you end up with an economy and democracy like we have in the US today.
> 
> what you radicals fail to see if that the positive effects of capitalism are all gone, there is no more it's all bad from here on out with the negative economic policy that has been enacted in the US in past decades and the US democracy which is for sale to the highest bidder.   once again the law of diminishing returns proves to hold true in regards to even the most basic economic functions.  when you have an economy in which gains of income and wealth are *EXTREMELY unequal* and not by the natural progression of the markets but via intentional manipulation such as the growth of the US financial sector eventually as history has shown that economy will eventually collapse.  it's a house of cards, as long as demand is high and that need is meet with enough goods and services from the supply side the economy functions.  but when demand drops due to the inability of workers to pay for those goods and services commodity prices eventually drop and the whole house of cards comes crashing down.  and this is where the US is nearing right now and why the FED pouring trillions of dollars into the coffers of capitalists at the top has not had a positive effect on economic growth, they are feeding the wrong side of the equation.  when looking at the essential functions of economics capital has the natural advantage over labor it needs no assistance.
> 
> ...



how can you claim capitalism is a problem when we haven't had it in over a 150 years?   do you know what true capitalism is?  obviously you don't.


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## Zaphod (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> no I do. but you claimed to know and keep changing your answers. so figure out what lam would say and tell me, since all you do is hang on his nuts.



You have no argument and nothing to back you up so all you can do is resort to insults.  You're pathetic.


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## IronAddict (Apr 29, 2013)

All I'm sayin ...


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## Swiper (Apr 29, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Zaphod said:


> You have no argument and nothing to back you up so all you can do is resort to insults.  You're pathetic.



back up what? you're the one who says you know why companies keep their cash overseas. I said the profits  were mostly made overseas. which was backed up and true.


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## Zaphod (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> back up what? you're the one who says you know why companies keep their cash overseas. I said the profits  were mostly made overseas. which was backed up and true.



But you are wrong.  As your link shows only some companies made more than half their profits overseas, not even a majority of companies.  Not even half.


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## Swiper (Apr 29, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Zaphod said:


> But you are wrong.  As your link shows only some companies made more than half their profits overseas, not even a majority of companies.  Not even half.



so would you be happy then if I said "a lot of those companies made most of their profits overseas"   you're  nit picking


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## Zaphod (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> so would you be happy then if I said "a lot of those companies made most of their profits overseas"   you're  nit picking



Not nit picking at all.  You're using a few companies to paint a picture that those are the norm.  That's like going to an anti-gun rally and asking people if they want background checks and using the statistic that over 90% of the population want background checks.  If you can't get the numbers you want, just make them up?


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## Swiper (Apr 29, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Zaphod said:


> Not nit picking at all.  You're using a few companies to paint a picture that those are the norm.  That's like going to an anti-gun rally and asking people if they want background checks and using the statistic that over 90% of the population want background checks.  If you can't get the numbers you want, just make them up?



a few?  lol. almost half 

I was pointing out what LAMs article failed to mention.


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## Arnold (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> it's not nice to tell your members who buy and support your sponsors products that their stupid.



I did not call u stupid, I said LAM makes u look stupid in these threads because you have NO valid arguments. I guess you cannot read either.


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## Big Smoothy (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> if you subscribe to LAMs *socialist* way of thought



I don't know what label to put on LAM, if a label can be put on him. Maybe he has stated his label and I missed it.

I do not think this is about any of the "isms."

It's not about "capitalism/socialism" per se - it's about the American economic model today.   (Of course it is defined as some form of American _capitalism_ but these labels are really, off-topic.

Wages are stagnant and declining.  This has been the case in the majority of years since 1970s, with a few years of exception.

Less or no benefits, service sector jobs, cash only jobs, or at best a 401K plan which often has fees that eat up your saving and investments over your working life time.

I'm back in the US now in the Seattle area to visit: Seattle's economy _seems_ good because it's better than most of the rest of the nation.  

But the big picture is: 1. high cost of living expenses (cost of living) 2. low wages (unless your a STEM or upper professional) and 3. no benefits 4. no job security. 

As for the the cost of living, I notice the prices for many good and services are not cheap.  I am very careful on what I spend on. 

People are rats looking for the next meal.  Network, hustle, sell yourself.

And on top of this situation, you have lots of credit card debt, usually a car loan debt, etc.

I am going to South America in about 2 weeks to work there and will return to Arizona to work and live for a spell before returning to Vietnam.  

Good OP article by LAM: I'm spreading it around.


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## oufinny (Apr 29, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Swiper said:


> why don't you start your own company so you don't have to deal with that kind of shit?  then you can pay your employees huge wages like you want.



I do consulting on the side. Don't be butt hurt because reality is too hard for you to accept.


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## Swiper (Apr 29, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



oufinny said:


> I do consulting on the side. Don't be butt hurt because reality is too hard for you to accept.



reality is so overrated.  ha.


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## Arnold (Apr 29, 2013)

Swiper said:


> reality is so overrated.  ha.



we know u don't live in it.


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## Swiper (Apr 29, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Prince said:


> we know u don't live in it.



good one!  did you think of that all by yourself?


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## Zaphod (Apr 30, 2013)

Swiper said:


> a few?  lol. almost half
> 
> I was pointing out what LAMs article failed to mention.



And almost half is most?


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## oufinny (Apr 30, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Swiper said:


> good one!  did you think of that all by yourself?



Your childish rants negate any input you have and show your true colors and lack of intelligence clearly. Let me guess you're that guy that thinks he's always right and people just walk away from arguments with you because it's like trying to find smart in Forrest Gump.


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## Swiper (Apr 30, 2013)

oufinny said:


> Your childish rants negate any input you have and show your true colors and lack of intelligence clearly. Let me guess you're that guy that thinks he's always right and people just walk away from arguments with you because it's like trying to find smart in Forrest Gump.



lol
not at all. if you bothered to read my post. i clearly stated i'm a mental midget when it comes to politics and economic issues.   i bet you're the kind of chick who judges people you don't even know?

I wonder why Orbit nutrition would have an ass hole rep like you. Makes me not want to even bother considering those products when looking for my nutritional needs.


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## LAM (Apr 30, 2013)

Zaphod said:


> And almost half is most?



and when looking deeper at the problem of why US large firms are growing so fast in foreign markets it's because capital is flowing out of the US into those country's where US manufacturing and other jobs are being relocated to along with investment capital.  US workers are tapped out, many can no longer afford those goods and services because of low and stagnant wages.  it's a viscous cycle that once started amounts to nothing good occurring for the US economy in the future.

people have spent way too much time complaining about the slow recession recovery instead of focusing on the causes of it as they are all related.


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## oufinny (May 2, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



Swiper said:


> lol
> not at all. if you bothered to read my post. i clearly stated i'm a mental midget when it comes to politics and economic issues.   i bet you're the kind of chick who judges people you don't even know?
> 
> I wonder why Orbit nutrition would have an ass hole rep like you. Makes me not want to even bother considering those products when looking for my nutritional needs.



I could give a shit about your opinion of me or Orbit... Shop elsewhere if you like, it's your choice.


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## Swiper (May 2, 2013)

*Corporate Profits at All-Time High Wages at All-Time Low Can We Call it Class W*



oufinny said:


> I could give a shit about your opinion of me or Orbit... Shop elsewhere if you like, it's your choice.



I most definitely will now. you just put a nail in that coffin.  orbit must be proud of you for turning off their customers or shall I say former customers.


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## Gregzs (Jun 11, 2013)

Dodgeball: 5 ways companies beat the tax man - CBS News

Dodgeball: 5 ways companies beat the tax man 

Around the world with tax loopholes

You pay your taxes, why don't big businesses? From Silicon Valley to the oil patch, powerful companies with the most creative accountants that money can buy have dreamed up some nifty ways to minimize, and often obliterate, their tax obligations. And a lot of the loopholes involve moving money around the globe. It's a big deal, recently noted Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., chairman of the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, which has been conducting an ongoing investigation into corporate tax avoidance.

"At a time when we face such difficult budget choices, and when American families are facing a tax increase and cuts in critical programs from education to health care to food inspections to national defense, these offshore schemes are unacceptable."

Here's a look at some of the common ploys companies use to pay little or no tax.

Like other companies, Apple (AAPL) uses a complicated network of subsidiaries that, because of different tax rates around the world, allow it to avoid taxes both at home and abroad.

Here's roughly how it works: Apple locates as much of its profits as possible in overseas subsidiaries -- in one example, Apple Operations International, or AOI, is located in Ireland and controls various other Apple offshore subsidiaries. Apple's intellectual property, and hence its profit, is owned by AOI. Trouble is, only companies that are managed in Ireland pay taxes there, so Apple's off the hook there. At the same time, the unit isn't incorporated in the U.S., so it pays no taxes at home, either, in spite of that fact that the vast majority of its R&D is conducted at home. "Magically," said Levin, "It's neither here nor there."

"Apple argues that it is one of the biggest corporate taxpayers in America, that in 2012 alone, it paid $6 billion in taxes," he said. "What Apple doesn't say is that, also in 2012 alone, it shifted $36 billion in worldwide sales income away from the United States and paid no U.S. tax on any of it."

Facebook (FB) paid no tax in 2012. U.S. tax law allows the social networking company to deduct hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of stock options that it has issued to billionaire CEO Mark Zuckerberg and other top company executives. In its accounting, Facebook records the value of these options at only a few cents per share. Facebook executives concede that the loophole also will allow them to avoid tax bills in the future. 

None of this is illegal, and Facebook isn't alone in using such maneuvers. Levin said this tax break costs the government between $12 billion and $61 billion a year. According to the advocacy group Citizens for Tax Justice, other major beneficiaries of the options technique are Apple, JPMorgan Chase (JPM), software maker EMC (EMC), Goldman Sachs (GS), Amazon (AMZN) and Exxon Mobil (XOM). 

Large corporations commonly keep much or even most of their profits overseas -- indefinitely -- rather than bringing them home within arm's reach of the tax man. Hewlett Packard (HPQ) shifts profits made in the U.S. to offshore subsidiaries in the Cayman Islands and Belgium. Then, through a complicated schedule of short-term "loans," the company uses that money to pay for its daily operations back home. Even internal memos at the tech giant referred to the system as "repatriation strategy," leading Levin to call these practices "tax gimmickry."

"This scheme mocks the notion that profits of U.S. multinationals are 'locked up' or 'trapped' offshore," Levin said.

Microsoft (MSFT) still has a lock on many people's operating systems, but it's also skilled at manipulating the tax code, utilizing low-tax havens such as Singapore and Puerto Rico to minimize its tax responsibilities at home. For instance, the software giant sells the rights to its intellectual property to the company' Puerto Rico subsidiary. Microsoft U.S. then buys back from Microsoft Puerto Rico the distribution rights for the U.S. As a result, Microsoft U.S. gives Microsoft Puerto Rico 47 percent of its sales in the U.S.

As Levin points out, that's how Microsoft avoids U.S. taxes on 47 cents of each dollar of sales revenue at home. "The product is developed here," he said. "It is sold here, to customers here. And yet Microsoft pays no taxes here on nearly half the income. Microsoft saved over $4.5 billion in taxes on goods sold in the United States during the three years surveyed by the Subcommittee."


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## Gregzs (Sep 11, 2013)

Income

Top 1% take biggest income slice on record

The gulf between the richest 1% of the USA and the rest of the country got to its widest level in history last year.

The top 1% of earners in the U.S. pulled in 19.3% of total household income in 2012, which is their biggest slice of total income in more than 100 years, according to a an analysis by economists at the University of California, Berkeley and the Paris School of Economics at Oxford University.

The richest Americans haven't claimed this large of a slice of total wealth since 1927, when the group claimed 18.7%. The analysis is based on data from Internal Revenue Service data.

One of the economists behind the research, Emmanuel Saez of the University of California, Berkeley, is a top researcher in the topic of wealth and income inequality. He won the John Bates Clark medal last year. The Clark medal is awarded to the most promising economists under the age of 40. Past winners have includes Paul Krugman of Princeton University, Lawrence Summers and Steve Levitt, co-author of "Freakonomics."

In a separate analysis, Saez found the top 1% of earnings posted 86% real income growth between 1993 and 2000. Meanwhile, the real income growth of the bottom 99% of earnings rose 6.6%.


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## LAM (Sep 12, 2013)

another thing that goes along with the low wage mentality is that by spending less money on human capital, i.e. education, etc. it only causes the wealth gap between the middle/bottom and the top to increase even more making the long term economic outlook that much worst (along with increasing the changes of more bubble/burst cycles), but the folks that have been pushing austerity measures during an economic downturn couldn't be more clueless or they are in the pockets of those that own the means of production.


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