# No excuse stupid peoples guide to pct



## mr. ya-di-da (Mar 30, 2011)

Let's also start by saying that you don't have to run post cycle therapy.........you also don't have to wipe your ass after taking a dump: it's just a really really good idea to do these things 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





*The first thing we need to understand is what is going on with our bodies when we're taking anabolic steroids:*
Exogeneous anabolic hormones (or derivatives of anabolic hormones) are being brought into your system. This causes the body to take a number of responsive actions. The first and foremost (as you already know) is increased muscle mass. Unfortunately, other things are also going on that aren't so great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




When an enzyme or hormone is brought exogeneously into the system, chemical balances shift around to attain a certain equilibrium. This is a chemical concept known as Le Chatelier's Principle of Chemical Equilibria. In a nutshell, your body will increase production of estrogen, cortisol, and other hormones in response to heightened testosterone levels, while simultaneously slowering (or completely stopping) natural production of testosterone. Biologist call this negative feedback.......biology sucks doesn't it?

*Le Chatelier's Principle for the scientifically impaired:*
Let's pretend A and B react to make C (can't get much simpler than that). 

A + B --------> C

So we have a mixture containing A, B, and C. According to LeChatlier's principle, if we add more C to the mixture, the amounts of A and B will _increase_. If we remove some of the C from the mixture, A and B will _decrease_. And if we were to add A, B, or a combination of the two, C will _increase_. Still with me here? Good.


*What's going on when we come off a cycle:*
Ok, so while we're on the cycle, are natural test production is going down to compensate for the exogeneous test intake, and our production of other steroid hormones (i.e. Estrogen, Cortisol, etc.) is going up to compensate for the heightened test levels. When we come off a cycle, we cease intake of exogeneous testosterone. In other words, we have very low test levels, and very high cortisol and estrogen levels: it's the EXACT OPPOSITE of what we had while starting our cycle. 

REMEMBER Le Chatelier's Principle because this is where it gets really important. *When we have an excess of one hormone, the others will start shifting around, to attain a certain equilibrium.* Ok, I'm gonna say it (and bold it) again because it's just that important. *When we have an excess of one hormone, the others will start shifting around, to attain a certain equilibrium.* It is a _very_ common misconception that we want to eradicate estrogen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. High estrogen levels play an integral part in Post Cycle therapy. That's right, you want to welcome high estrogen with open freaking arms, but there's a trick to it. And that trick is the almighty SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator). 

*SERM's: the foundation of post cycle therapy:*
Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators are (and damn well should be) the foundation for any proper post-cycle therapy plan. A post cycle therapy plan without them, isn't a post cycle therapy plan: it's a bunch of crap you decided to take after doing a cycle. *The purpose of a SERM is to block the negative effects estrogen, while your hormone levels go back to equilibrium.* 

SERM's are prescription drugs, and are *NOT SOLD IN SUPPLEMENT STORES*. In fact, there are only 3 ways ( can think of) in which you can obtain a SERM:

1) Through a Doctor's Prescription.
2) Through the Black Market (a.k.a. illegally)
3) As a research chemicals intended for use in lab rats. 


*The Different SERM's:*

*Tamoxifen (Nolvadex)*: 
Reputation: Most popular SERM for PCT
Pros: Cheap. Effective for gyno prevention.
Cons: Heptatoxicity. Studies have shown it to lower IGF levels (I don't feel like citing, but it's _about_ 20% decrease...IMO no biggie).
Popular Dosage (for a 4-week cycle): 40/40/20/20
Note: Tamoxifen Citrate is less potent, and should be dosed at an extra 30%. 

*Clomiphene Citrate (clomid)*:
Reputation: Second most popular. Usually taken the first week or so to speed up Testosterone recovery with Tamoxifen being taken the whole therapy.
Pros: Better than Tamoxifen for HTPA regernation. Less heptatoxicity. Does not lower IGF. 
Cons: Less effective against gyno. Can cause emotional issues. May Cause blurred vision. Hot Flashes. 
Popular Dosage (for a 4-week cycle): 100-200mg/100mg/50mg/50mg

*Toremifene*:
Reputation: Very popular on this board 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Pros: Much less toxic. 
Con's: $$$$$expensive$$$$$
Popular Dosages (for a 4-week cycle): 120-240mg/120mg/60mg/30mg

*Raloxifene*:
Reputation: _Very_ effective against gyno
Pros: Strong protection against gyno. Less toxic than Tamoxifen. 
Con's: Cost Restricting. Can cause abnormal blood clotting in the eyes, lunges, and legs. May also cause hot flashes trouble breathing, and blurred vision. 
Popular Dosages: (for a 4-week cycle): 120-240mg/120mg/60mg/30mg


*Moving down the PCT Hierarchy: Cortisol Control*
Excess cortisol can be damaging to your newly found muscle mass. Because of this, it is a good idea to use something to block or lower the excessive cortisol levels. Always start high, and taper your way down. Here's what we have to work with:

B-Androstenetriol (b-triol): This is one of the better cortisol suppressors. It has a terrible oral bioavailability, and should be taken transdermally. Dosages range from 25-50mg every 12 hours. 

Methyl B-Androstenetriol (mb-triol): This is an enhanced version of b-triol designed for oral use. Because it is not an androgenic steroid, there is minimal heptatoxicity associated with it's alkylation. Found in the following products: Retain (by Anabolic Xtreme), Restore (by ALRI), Thyrogen-X (by ALRI)

7-Hydroxy-DHEA: Another potent cortisol suppressor with great oral bioavailability. Found in the following products: Lean Xtreme (by Designer Supplements), Reduce XT (by SNS)

7-oxo-DHEA (7-keto-DHEA): Still a decent contender, this has a terrible oral availability and an even worse half life (2 hours). This is best taken transdermally, where such effects can by bypassed. 

Cissus: Unlike the above, the components of Cissus do not suppress Cortisol, but rather block cortisol receptors (better than Nandrolone or Dianabol according to some studies). Dosages vary significantly (pending extracts). SuperCissus by USPLabs is a high quality Cissus product. 

Branched Chain Amino Acids: These should be a staple to begin with, but are a great anti-catabolic that mitigates the muscle-wasting effects of cortisol. 

*At the bottom of the PCT hierarchy there's AI's, Test Booster's, and other 'natural' anabolics*
Way too many different things going on in here to go into too much detail. Just a word of caution (and this is my personal opinion), but if you're post cycle plan starts to look like a constitutional ammendment: you're over-doing it. And the worst part is if something goes wrong, you won't have a damn clue what caused it. 

Honorable mentions of this part of the hierarchy:
Jungle Warfare (by ALRI)
MassFX (by Anabolic Xtreme)
Hyperdrol (by Anabolic Xtreme)
Ecdysterone/Turkesterone
Creatine Monohydrate


----------



## Bigb21084 (Mar 31, 2011)

Wholly information Batman!! Thanks


----------



## TJTJ (Apr 17, 2011)

What are your thoughts on Phosphatidylserine as a cortisol blocker. Ive read to take about 800mg. Its OTC and natural.


----------



## Himik (Apr 17, 2011)

Great info and explanation of scientific terms and principles insides one's body.


----------



## 1krazyrider (Apr 18, 2011)

That was Huge info , Thanks Bro.


----------



## GH Consigliere (Apr 18, 2011)

Were the hcg??


----------



## oufinny (Apr 18, 2011)

Chino0823 said:


> Were the hcg??



Agreed, it needs to be included either as an on cycle add on or in PCT.


----------



## vannesb (Apr 19, 2011)

Great info!


----------



## Winny_ng 24/7 (Apr 20, 2011)

Does the Cycle Length and Dosage greatly affect what PCT products you should use?


----------



## cdan19 (Apr 20, 2011)

soooooo much info but free education. I love it. Keep it coming.


----------



## mr. ya-di-da (Apr 20, 2011)

Winny_ng 24/7 said:


> Does the Cycle Length and Dosage greatly affect what PCT products you should use?


 

yes it does..for example halodrol is a very mild prohormone at the recommended dosage of only 50mg..you can get away with using otc pct(which i would never recommend ) and in some cases no pct at all ( which i still wouldnt recommend ) but with me and most others halo has to be dosed at a higher dosage of 75mgs to 100mgs to be effective.. at this higher dosage u increase the risk of sides that you might not get a the lower dosage and a serm has to be used for pct. but even at the lower dosage i always recommend a serm..better safe then sorry.


----------



## Digitalash (Apr 20, 2011)

mr. ya-di-da said:


> *Tamoxifen (Nolvadex)*:
> Reputation: Most popular SERM for PCT
> Pros: Cheap. Effective for gyno prevention.
> Cons: Heptatoxicity. Studies have shown it to lower IGF levels (I don't feel like citing, but it's _about_ 20% decrease...IMO no biggie).
> ...


 

Good info but as far as I know all Nolvadex is Tamoxifen Citrate, so not sure why you'd dose citrate any differently than if you bought brand name nolva


----------



## lifterjaydawg (Apr 20, 2011)

very good and easy to read info on pct chems.


----------



## mr. ya-di-da (Apr 20, 2011)

Digitalash said:


> Good info but as far as I know all Nolvadex is Tamoxifen Citrate, so not sure why you'd dose citrate any differently than if you bought brand name nolva


 

i think it is referring to the liquid research chem nolva. its always good to dose the liquid a little higher.. 60/60/40/40


----------



## sudoe (Apr 22, 2011)

Nice read!


----------



## Digitalash (Apr 22, 2011)

mr. ya-di-da said:


> i think it is referring to the liquid research chem nolva. its always good to dose the liquid a little higher.. 60/60/40/40


 
Ah I see that makes sense

one would hope the chem sites wouldn't skimp on something as important as nolva, but better safe than sorry


----------



## mr. ya-di-da (Apr 22, 2011)

yeah i saw one site that sold liquid nolva and they called theirs "true twenty " reguardless you still want to dose it a little bit higher..just like you said..better safe then sorry..we have no proof of knowing if it is dosed correctly. i dont know if they are trying to say that it is really a true 20mgs per ml or if it means something else...reguardless i would still dose it a bit higher.


----------

