# How many pills you take?



## TheGreatSatan (Oct 9, 2003)

I've been taking around 20 pills each day.  I was wondering how that compares to everyone else.


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## Jodi (Oct 9, 2003)

What kind of pills.


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## ponyboy (Oct 9, 2003)

Holy crap!  What the heck are they?


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## TheGreatSatan (Oct 9, 2003)

Aminos, multi, fish oils, 1-AD, coral calcium, CLA, and something else I think.


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## vanity (Oct 10, 2003)

Pills, Thrills and Bellyaches...

Sounds to me like you may be taking 19 pills too many.
A good multivitamin to supplement an already healthy and balanced diet should be all one needs. Anything beyond that is pretty much overkill and a waste of money.

Foods, as they occur in nature, not a science lab are the way to go. Eat more fruits, vegetables and grains and flush the pills down the toilet. Your body (and wallet) will thank you for it.

*Note*  to all Supplement Users and Abusers: If you treat your body like a science experiment you may 10 or 20 years from now become your very own Frankenstein monster. It's ironic how in the pursuit of health many get sick.

Pills are not for the healthy and strong , they are for the sick and infirm.


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## Tha Don (Oct 11, 2003)

i take... 

3 flax/linseed caps (from FSC)
1 multi-vit pill
3 thermobol or thermokick metabolism enhancing pills (from mm)
4 CLA-1000 caps (also from mm)

so thats 11 a day!

but the 3 thermo pills are only for when i'm cutting, they will stop soon, i'll probably cut out the CLA too, coz soon i'll be on the creatine, glut and zma (along with loads of food  when i go back to bulking)

will i still need flax on a bulk?


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## kdwa1 (Oct 11, 2003)

I'm doing at least 15.Multi,chlorella,fish oil,E,C,alpha lipoic etc.I often do as many as 20 myself.I see it as fod so no matter,just pop em.


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## Tha Don (Oct 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by vanity *_
> Pills, Thrills and Bellyaches...
> 
> Sounds to me like you may be taking 19 pills too many.
> ...




I disagree mate

it depends how you use them, what they are, what your diet/training looks like... etc

some people can use suplements to great effect! things like creatine and whey help many people achieve goals that would not have been possible without their use

obviously i'm not sayin everyone wanting to look good should go and take supplements, they should be used when you hit a stage in your training where you cannot get anymore gains naturally, thats where supplements are very effective at helping us reach that next level

all serious athletes must supplement

thats JMO

peace


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## kdwa1 (Oct 11, 2003)

I have to say that vitamin supplements are good for EVERYONE unless they have serious health problems or allegies.


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## JerseyDevil (Oct 11, 2003)

1 multi, twelve 1,000g fish oil, currently four 1-AD, and 1 prescription med.


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## Freeman (Oct 11, 2003)

I do 2 multis a day, 3 1-AD a day, some digestion aid pills, some joint health pills, and sometimes some fish oil pills.


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## vanity (Oct 11, 2003)

You can disagree if you like.  I can respect that. However, if you reach a stage in your training where you cannot "gain naturally", as you say, I would 1st question your training and diet before rushing off to the nearest pharmacy.

Furthermore, The Food And Drug Administration has very limited power to regulate dietary supplements. Dangerous supplements can be sold for years before the FDA has enough complaints to launch an investigation. 

So basically, companies can put whatever they want into their products and make any outlandish claims they wish . Meanwhile gullible and misinformed or ignorant consumers (looking for an edge) pay ridiculous amounts of money for powders, bars, pills and potions.

Do you really know what is in the supplements you take?
Do you really know what the long term effects of taking them are?

It would be wise to get the opinion of a registered dietician rather than blindly believing the ridiculous claims one sees in fitness magazine adds or infomercials.

My 2 cents...


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## Freeman (Oct 11, 2003)

Well, I can't speak for anyone else on here, but I know EXACTLY what is in the pills I am taking.  Also, there are MANY studies out there that show that certain products DO have benefits such as creatine, 1-AD, 1-test, etc.  Also, you mention powders...are you speaking of whey protein?

Of course, I agree, everyone should do their research, but that does not have to mean consulting a dietician.  There are lots of publications one can find...and if you're a serious bodybuilder or weightlifter, you should have already educated yourself and continue to educate yourself on different supps. and such.  You are always learning........


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## TheGreatSatan (Oct 11, 2003)

If you want to know what is actually in what you take, look here.

http://www.labelclaimstesting.com/


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## gr81 (Oct 12, 2003)

this thread is just a cheap shot at Rush Limbaugh isn't it, ISN"T IT!? how many pills..... for christ sake!?.........ha ha ha, lol


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## firestorm (Oct 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by vanity *_
> Pills, Thrills and Bellyaches...
> 
> Sounds to me like you may be taking 19 pills too many.
> ...




Well I kinda sorta agree with this gal.  I do think that Suppliments are over used and in some cases over rated.

Honestly, when I gave up steroids years ago and injured my back I was out of the gym totally for like 2 years.  I got fat and lost just about everything I worked so hard to gain up to that injury.
When I was finally healthy enough to start training again, I didn't take nothing, nada, ziltch.  They didn't have all this fancy stuff they have now or if they did I was unaware of it all.  I lost the weight and gained "some" muscle back (not like when I was on steroids but never the less, I looked like I worked out again.  The Pictures you all got to see of me in my lovely zebra spandex pics (no jokes please lol) was totally "natural"  no creatine, steroids, or what have you.  Periodically I had a protein shake and that was it.  I'm currently taking Creatine, Glutamine, 1-T(for 2 days), and Clenbuterx because I'm in that online compition and I'm looking to make quicker gains/losses.  If it helps I'll let ya all know in my journal.  I don't even take a multi vitamin.  I believe I get most of my vitamins naturally in foods. If any certain mineral or vitamin is deficient in my diet I can't tell so why take it?  Just in case?  If that were a good reason,  I'm going to go and take an Excederine for this headache I may get in 30 minutes.


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## firestorm (Oct 12, 2003)

I really do question to myself when looking at peoples journals of ALL the stuff they are taking along with all that good food they ingest and wonder, how much of it is really necessary.  Hell I may be WAYYY of track here and have a total misconception of things but I'm only going by personnel experiences.  I didnt' take anything and still gained nice size and strength.


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## firestorm (Oct 12, 2003)

oh and protein powder is just an easy and quick way to eat a meal.  I see no problems with that and shouldn't be bunched in with this pill conversation.   Plus I forgot,  I've increased my use of protein Powders also.  I do drink them every day now.


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## Freeman (Oct 12, 2003)

Fire, my man, you are blessed with very good genes.  People like me and Mudgey have all stinky poop genes.  It sucks.  I am not LAZY as vanity would suggest (since I take SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many pills, I MUST be looking for that magic pill).  Well, I know improvements come incrimentally, but I am finally FINALLY making gains after starting a cycle of 1-ad after almost 2 years of PATHETIC strength gains...i tried adjusting it all, diet, workouts, sleep, etc.  nothing worked....now, all lifts have gone up.  maybe this is just the jolt my system needed to get going.  

oh, and about damn time you started the powders man!


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## Tha Don (Oct 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by firestorm *_
> Well I kinda sorta agree with this gal.  I do think that Suppliments are over used and in some cases over rated.
> 
> Honestly, when I gave up steroids years ago and injured my back I was out of the gym totally for like 2 years.  I got fat and lost just about everything I worked so hard to gain up to that injury.
> When I was finally healthy enough to start training again, I didn't take nothing, nada, ziltch.  They didn't have all this fancy stuff they have now or if they did I was unaware of it all.  I lost the weight and gained "some" muscle back (not like when I was on steroids but never the less, I looked like I worked out again.  The Pictures you all got to see of me in my lovely zebra spandex pics (no jokes please lol) was totally "natural"  no creatine, steroids, or what have you.  Periodically I had a protein shake and that was it.  I'm currently taking Creatine, Glutamine, 1-T(for 2 days), and Clenbuterx because I'm in that online compition and I'm looking to make quicker gains/losses.  If it helps I'll let ya all know in my journal.  I don't even take a multi vitamin.  I believe I get most of my vitamins naturally in foods. If any certain mineral or vitamin is deficient in my diet I can't tell so why take it?  Just in case?  If that were a good reason,  I'm going to go and take an Excederine for this headache I may get in 30 minutes.



your kind of contradicting yourself

you agree that supplements are a 'waste of money', for the 'sick' etc... then you go on to say you take 'creatine' and 'glutamine', and in your more recent post that you use 'whey'!

your either pro sups or anti sups, can't be both

yes you can make gains without supplements, but research shows that supplements can increase gains drasticly

creatine has allowed me to put on extra size and has really improved my strength (without it I was struggling to continue to make progress), after seeing benefits from both creatine and whey i'm definatly pro sups

and so are 99% of top athletes

i don't understand people who are against supplements when they use them... even 'vanity' you say a multi-vit pill is okay? but when is the difference between a multi vit and any other dietary supplement? they are all their to aid diet

sups are essential if you want that 'edge' over your competitiors

peace


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## Freeman (Oct 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by young d *_
> 
> 
> your either pro sups or anti sups, can't be both



Well, this is being a bit extreme.  You can have a middle ground here and think certain supps. work extremely well, while you might feel that others do not work at all.  Also, we have to realize that some supps. may work for some people, and not for others.


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## Tha Don (Oct 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Freeman *_
> Well, this is being a bit extreme.  You can have a middle ground here and think certain supps. work extremely well, while you might feel that others do not work at all.  Also, we have to realize that some supps. may work for some people, and not for others.



hmm

how can you be anti sups if you use supplements?

i think everyone who is pro-sups knows that some of them are bull. and many of them they wouldn't bother using (mainly because they do not need to supplement with them, each supplement has its own purpose)

if you use a supplement i don't think you can diss them

you either use them or you don't, its quite simple, i don't c a middle ground

peace


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## Freeman (Oct 12, 2003)

my point is that Fire isn't "anti-supps"...you were trying to pigeon-hole him into that category..


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## Arnold (Oct 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by vanity *_
> Furthermore, The Food And Drug Administration has very limited power to regulate dietary supplements. Dangerous supplements can be sold for years before the FDA has enough complaints to launch an investigation.



like ephedra?

yeah, it's real dangerous.


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## firestorm (Oct 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by young d *_
> your kind of contradicting yourself
> 
> you agree that supplements are a 'waste of money', for the 'sick' etc... then you go on to say you take 'creatine' and 'glutamine', and in your more recent post that you use 'whey'!
> ...




NO NO NO NO NO!!!  I'm not contradicting myself.  I stated that I made excellent gains over like ummm 15 years without any of the new fangled stuff.  Now I'm giving it a whirl after seeing and reading what members here have posted in the past year.  This is the reason I joined this site,  to learn of these non illegal training suppliments.  I admit the fact I'm now 41 and it isn't as easy as it used to be.  And from what I hear regading some of these things, they ARE little magic pills in a sense.  They do help speed up gains and or weight loss.  I said they didn't have this kind of stuff back in the day.  Your only real alternative was steroids and as mentioned by me many times.  I did those too.  I either worded something wrong or you took it the wrong way.


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## Freeman (Oct 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> like ephedra?
> 
> yeah, it's real dangerous.



I mean, yeah, it kills EVERYONE who uses it, right!??!


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## firestorm (Oct 12, 2003)

Young I saw where I said suppliments are a waist of money, over used and over rated.  I also used the word "some" not all.  An example is if your taking lets say a Megaman multi vitamin,, why are you also taking extra B-12 prior to a workout??  I knew someone like that.  Ya look at the ingredients of like 5 things on that refridgerator and some of those ingredients are replicated in one or more of those products.  that was all my point was on that.


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## firestorm (Oct 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Freeman *_
> my point is that Fire isn't "anti-supps"...you were trying to pigeon-hole him into that category..



Your right I'm not anti supps.  NOt in the least.  like the gentlemen said that if I were I'd be talking out of both sided of my face.  I said they are in "some" cases overused and dependent upon.  My point in short is I "personnally" do not see a need to take 10 different suppiments at one time.   He was right about Creatine,  this isn't the 1st time I've used it and I did see a drastic improvement in my training with it.   the 1T is something new for me and like I said I'll let you all know how it works for me.  I hardly put it down.  I certainly am not going to say the stuff is bullshit and then go out and buy it.  Right?  You understand what I was saying Freeman.  I suppose I need to choose my words more carefully in the future.


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## firestorm (Oct 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by young d *_
> hmm
> 
> how can you be anti sups if you use supplements?
> ...



Young I see how I misguided you and there are no hard feelings over hear.  I can see how I confused things.  My appologies.  As for your posts,  I quite agree that some suppliments are genuine.   But there is alot of crap out there too which I forgot to mention above.  I remember when Chromium Picolinate was the "in" drug to take for weight loss.  It was all hyped up and later studies showed that it assists but was in no way comparible to a  xenadrine or something of that nature.  HMB was the mega suppliment to add serious mass.  Sheit, I don't know how many people I know used it and didn't see squat.  Point is lots of hype in some cases and no real bang for the buck.  again why I used the word  "some" in original post.


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## Arnold (Oct 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by firestorm *_
> Young I saw where I said suppliments are a waist of money, over used and over rated.  I also used the word "some" not all.  An example is if your taking lets say a Megaman multi vitamin,, why are you also taking extra B-12 prior to a workout??



because B vitamins are water soluable and they do not stay in your system long.


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## firestorm (Oct 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> like ephedra?
> 
> yeah, it's real dangerous.



not ephedra Prince as the wonderful FDA would make us believe but a good example would be phen-phen.  She was talking about ephedra though I'm sure.


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## Arnold (Oct 12, 2003)

you missed my original quote (actually it's vanity's quote):



> Dangerous supplements can be sold for years before the FDA has enough complaints to launch an investigation.



that is why I mentioned ephedra.


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## firestorm (Oct 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> because B vitamins are water soluable and they do not stay in your system long.



    ummm yea I knew that. I was just kidding.  lol


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## firestorm (Oct 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> you missed my original quote (actually it's vanity's quote):
> 
> 
> ...



Regardless, I agree with you.  I think its a load of crap the wrap ephedra has taken.   A few sports figures will O/D on Alieve and they will be pulling that next too.  a fuqing joke.


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## vanity (Oct 13, 2003)

Firestorm: I like your style but your eyesight sucks
I am no gal, I'm a dude  

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

must
be the hair.

BTW
I was talking about chromium picolinate not ephedra.

You know, if some of you feel better taking pills and powders, then more power to you. I know alot of people feel as strongly about supplements as some people feel about religion.

Over the years , I've trained 2 types of people: natural and supplemented. What I observed  over and over again was that the gains by both groups were very similar. Yes, the supplemented individuals had a little more strength and a little more mass but the difference certainly didn't justify the money one would have to spend on a year's supply of whey and creatine etc.... Not to mention the potential longterm effects that these products can have on one's health.

The truth is everyone is trying to sell you something and I'm pretty sure few of them care whether or not  20 years from now your liver or kidneys go bad.

Each one of us has only one body and one life. It's up to each of us to respect that. Anyone who doesn't is a fool.

Oh firestorm, here's some vitamin A for those peepers.

O       O       O       O       O


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## gr81 (Oct 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by vanity *_
> Yes, the supplemented individuals had a little more strength and a little more mass but the difference certainly didn't justify the money one would have to spend on a year's supply of whey and creatine etc.... Not to mention the potential longterm effects that these products can have on one's health.



No offense but I am dying for you to tell m what the potential long term dangers of whey protien supplementation and creatine upplementation are?? I am all ears man


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## firestorm (Oct 13, 2003)

OMG!!!   What a moron!!!  How the fuq did I miss that???  I'm sorry bro I really didn't take quite a good enough look OBVIOUSLY!!!  I feel like a real idiot man. Sorry. 




> _*Originally posted by vanity *_
> Firestorm: I like your style but your eyesight sucks
> I am no gal, I'm a dude
> 
> ...



I hear you hear too but some of this stuff today does pack a real wallop!  These pro hormones for example I hear work wonders.  
I'm not arguing this either way because as you can see from earlier posts I'm kinda on the fence.  I agree with much of what you say and also see good points on the other.   I conclude that "some" suppliments are worthy of peoples money where others belong in the trash.   
I'll tell you what though,, I just started this 1-T stuff and some Clenbuterx.   I will write back on this in a few weeks and let everyone know how I feel regarding their worth.   I'm lucky/unlucky enough (according to how you look at it) to have trained both natural and with enhancements.  I know my body very well and what I can expect from it.  If I see that my lifts or size make gains unlike my normal patterns I'll let ya all know.


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## gr81 (Oct 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by firestorm *_
> OMG!!!   What a moron!!!  How the fuq did I miss that???  I'm sorry bro I really didn't take quite a good enough look OBVIOUSLY!!!  I feel like a real idiot man. Sorry.




??


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## firestorm (Oct 13, 2003)

Oh Creatine for example I've used it at different periods in my training.  I can say that I definitely saw a positive difference with that product.  My muscles were fuller and strength increased rather quickly and helped get me past several sticking points.  I do NOT rely on any suppliment throughout the year.  I use them periodically as boosters or like I said, to get me through a sticking point.  After I break one, I'll stay on it a short time longer and ween myself off totally until the next time I need a kick.  This is an example of what I was trying to say earlier about being reliant on suppliments.  Someone may come back after reading this and say I just described a "cycle" of creatine but what I do is not a cycle.  A cycle for example is 8 weeks on 4 weeks off etc. etc.  I keep no patterns such as that.  I may only use it for 3-4 weeks and then not again for 4 months or so.


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## firestorm (Oct 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gr81 *_
> ??




GR8 I thought Vanity was a female.


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## vanity (Oct 13, 2003)

GR81: No offence taken but if you're all ears you need to definately re-evaluate your training regimen.

  : )

Creatine as you know  is a new supplement so the jury is still out on what the longterm effects are. But there are some concerns as to what effect it can have on kidney, liver and pancreatic function. Hey you wanna be a guineapig. Go for it. My regards to your future nephrologist.

And for those of you that don't already know , Creatine is found in "real" food. Another thing is that if you stop taking it all your gains will whittle away.

have fun.


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## firestorm (Oct 13, 2003)

Vanity tell us about yourself.  I see your a resident witch have you met our member satin yet? hahaha   Are you a personnel trainer?  From your posts I take it your well schooled.


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## TheGreatSatan (Oct 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by gr81 *_
> No offense but I am dying for you to tell m what the potential long term dangers of whey protien supplementation and creatine upplementation are?? I am all ears man



And some people still think that high levels of protein will damage your kidneys.  They did one study to prove it; ON PEOPLE WITH KIDNEY PROBLEMS!!!!!!!


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## vanity (Oct 13, 2003)

I hear you Firestorm.

I think it's wise that you're on the fence. We all experiment. I'm sure many of us are on similar quests of self-mastery and learning. I don't think there's a right and wrong way. There are definately better and worse ways though.

Personally, I like to err on the side of caution. I don't like to jump on a bandwagon just because something is the latest craze. I want to see the science backing up the claims.

Bodybuilding seems to be a magnet for alot of dumbass people.
I've seen alot of people have to give up weights altogether because they seriously injured themselves out of sheer stupidity.
Others getting sick because of crazy diets or developing eating disorders or body dysmorphia.

It's not rocket science but it's no game either. You've got to develop the mind before the body.

BTW Firestorm you look kinda cute in that Captain America costume.

hahahahah


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## gr81 (Oct 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by vanity *_
> GR81: No offence taken but if you're all ears you need to definately re-evaluate your training regimen.
> 
> : )
> ...




you have given me nothing factual regarding potential dangers of either supp. My point was that your statement is misleading. There is absolutely no health risk associated with taking whey protien or creatine and the jury is not out on that. we already have so much creatine in our bodies everyday, do you think that 2-4 grams more is going to hurt anything? these supps are totally safe man, please do not spread inaccuracies about that. I agree with you and fire about supps, I am not veru big on them, in fact I happen to think that they are a waste of $$ more or less. I defn have protien powders though and have used creatine, which I am not all that worried about using it, but they are totally safe.


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## gr81 (Oct 13, 2003)

oh and welcome to IM


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## vanity (Oct 13, 2003)

GR81: thanks.

we're kind of splitting hairs. I'm talking about long term effects. I haven't seen a single study that talks about that. So, in my view it's jumping the gun saying they're 100% safe. 
Those who might benefit more from it would be, in my opinion, vegetarians.
If you've had good gains taking creatine,cool, i've had good gains without it. With the money I've saved I bought a serious Lat/row cable machine for home. LOL


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## gr81 (Oct 13, 2003)

I don't even take creatine, I really don't bother with any supps besides a multi vitamin and po powders. the rest is kind of just bells and whistles IMO. I do know that there are no long term affects of whey protien though, BBs have been taking in ptotien powders since the 50s at least and they are fine. I HAVE seen and read studies and I do know that about protien.


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## Freeman (Oct 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by vanity *_
> And for those of you that don't already know , Creatine is found in "real" food. Another thing is that if you stop taking it all your gains will whittle away.



Ok, we know it is found in "real" food.  But, the amount of creatine is incrimental and it is cheaper to buy creatine in bulk form rather than eat a bunch of steaks a day.

oh and welcome my man!  (I knew you weren't a girl!)


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## firestorm (Oct 13, 2003)

shutup FREEMAN,, I may not be talking in here but I AM READING!!!! you little F#$K!!!  I know that was a dig on good ole fire!     hahahahahahaha   Talk to ya all later, I'm really tired  tonight.


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## Freeman (Oct 14, 2003)




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## Tha Don (Oct 14, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by firestorm *_
> Young I see how I misguided you and there are no hard feelings over hear.  I can see how I confused things.  My appologies.



its cool man

and yo ain't shit wrong with creatine

its a natural occuring substance that we all have in our bodies and is contained in red meat

IMO creatine is 1 of the safest supplements there is when used correctly

Oh and how do your gains 'whittle away' when you stop taking creatine...?  Creatine reduces your body's recovery time and allows you to have greater intensity workouts and lift heavier weights!  By doing this you will (when combined with a high cal diet) put on extra muscle and you will be bigger and stronger when you come off it, then you were when you started it!  You may lose a little strength due to not having the creatine in your system, you will certainly not lose any muscle!

You (Vainity) talk as if we don't know a thing about what we are taking... we don't just run down our local health store and say.... ' hey Mr.! I want something to give me big muscles!' nor do we treat supplements as magic pills/drugs that will transform us into muscle men.  I think long and hard about my diet and the supplements I require to make maximum gains.  Just thought you ort to know!

peace


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