# How much cardio after weight liftin is enough



## bobble (Sep 19, 2011)

Tryin to loose bf,i usually do like 10 mins after lifting weights tredmill high intensity,or bike , my diet is pretty clean,if I do more would it hurt my muscle, like start to break down,
Im 5 10  222 lbs  like 30% bf  , any advice would be help full would be happy with 215/220 lbs with,15%bf lean


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## Moneytoblow (Sep 19, 2011)

I'm always tired as a bitch after lifting, so I never do cardio after weights. Either first thing in the morning or in the evening works best.


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## bobble (Sep 19, 2011)

Moneytoblow said:


> I'm always tired as a bitch after lifting, so I never do cardio after weights. Either first thing in the morning or in the evening works best.



so u think that on my off days for liftin I can do cardio instead,


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## Hell (Sep 19, 2011)

bobble said:


> so u think that on my off days for liftin I can do cardio instead,



Sure you can do it on off days. I usually do 30 minutes after every lifting session when try to lose weight and maybe 3 days when not cutting.


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## bobble (Sep 19, 2011)

Hell said:


> Sure you can do it on off days. I usually do 30 minutes after every lifting session when try to lose weight and maybe 3 days when not cutting.



U take ur post shake after ur lifting  before cardio or after ur cardio?


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## Cork (Sep 19, 2011)

When it comes to cutting, you should be doing at least 30 minutes of LI 4-5 times a week (or something comparable like 10-15 minutes of HIIT).  HIIT is much more muscle sparing than LI so if you have the energy for it after a workout, then I'd suggest you do it.

There have been some articles proving that during cardio, your anabolic response will be suppressed.  What this means is that doing it after weights will prolong your catabolic state.  In an ideal situation, cardio should be separate from weights.  In real life, and considering you're a hefty guy, cardio anytime you can fit it in is better than no cardio at all.

When it comes to workout nutrition, if you pair cardio and weights together, I'd sip on something during cardio.

As far as HIIT options go, I'd consider anything on an elliptical to not be real HIIT.  It's too easy and not really HIIT.  My first go to is always sprinting.  Second would be sprints on a bike at a hard gear, 3rd is incline walking intervals on a treadmill.  That's just my personal preference, but you do what you like.  But if it's HIIT, usually whatever hurts the most works the best, and that won't be the option you like


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## bobble (Sep 19, 2011)

Pp





Cork said:


> When it comes to cutting, you should be doing at least 30 minutes of LI 4-5 times a week (or something comparable like 10-15 minutes of HIIT).  HIIT is much more muscle sparing than LI so if you have the energy for it after a workout, then I'd suggest you do .
> 
> There have been some articles proving that during cardio, your anabolic response will be suppressed.  What this means is that doing it after weights will prolong your catabolic state.  In an ideal situation, cardio should be separate from weights.  In real life, and considering you're a hefty guy, cardio anytime you can fit it in is better than no cardio at all.
> 
> ...


 okay thnks for the info, how many pounds would I have to loose if I wanted to be in the 15/20%bf,


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## Cork (Sep 20, 2011)

Ok well if you pull out a calculator, you say you are 222 around 30% BF, that would be 66.6lbs of fat.  If you want to get down to around 15% fat that means you have 33.3lbs to lose so you can plan on being around 188lbs at 15%. 

How come you only want to cut to 15%?  IMO 15% is still pretty high.  Even if you only do bodybuilding as a hobby, I recommend that you keep to 10% or lower for health reasons.  There is no reason to be fatter than that other than laziness.


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## Jelibrah (Sep 20, 2011)

Cork said:


> Ok well if you pull out a calculator, you say you are 222 around 30% BF, that would be 66.6lbs of fat.  If you want to get down to around 15% fat that means you have 33.3lbs to lose so you can plan on being around 188lbs at 15%.
> 
> How come you only want to cut to 15%?  IMO 15% is still pretty high.  Even if you only do bodybuilding as a hobby, I recommend that you keep to 10% or lower for health reasons.  There is no reason to be fatter than that other than laziness.




Yeah I agree with Cork.  Once you hit 15 you will look decent but You will want to be at least around 10% I bet.  You will then probably wanna cut even more since your close in the neighborhood of single digit BF by then.  

Take that shake after all training has been done.   I usually have great results with Cardio 5-6 days a week.   Training days included just not that lengthy since training burned Cals and depleted gly levels.  Good luck with your training keep it up


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## Jelibrah (Sep 20, 2011)

Yeah I agree with cork aim higher in your goal shoot for at least 10%  you will like the change of your look


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## bobble (Sep 20, 2011)

Cork said:


> Ok well if you pull out a calculator, you say you are 222 around 30% BF, that would be 66.6lbs of fat.  If you want to get down to around 15% fat that means you have 33.3lbs to lose so you can plan on being around 188lbs at 15%.
> 
> How come you only want to cut to 15%?  IMO 15% is still pretty high.  Even if you only do bodybuilding as a hobby, I recommend that you keep to 10% or lower for health reasons.  There is no reason to be fatter than that other than laziness.


imma get on it harder,throw more cardio,my goal is to be at 190 by the end of the yr 2011, I got around 13 weeks, to do so , I want to maintain as much muscle as I can?


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## JoeClyde (Sep 22, 2011)

I started doing 20 min of Cardio after ever workout.  I'm thinking of upping my amount.  Good advice.


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## sosc (Sep 22, 2011)

Lately 10 minutes on a bike post-workout allows me
to lose 0.5-1% bodyfat every ten days. Typically I stop
around the time I start sweating. This is probably the
minimum amount of effort needed to produce results.

I'm not a big fan of HIIT since it requires extensive warm-up.

I also consider a thoughtful, strict and nutritious intake
paln to be crucial.


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## pebble (Sep 22, 2011)

First off I am going to say sorry if my post rambles a little bit.



Cork said:


> HIIT is much more muscle sparing than LI so if you have the energy for it after a workout, then I'd suggest you do it.



Show me some evidence of this.  Are  you suggesting that high intensity trauma to the muscle cause less damage than low intensity trauma?



Cork said:


> There have been some articles proving that during cardio, your anabolic response will be suppressed.  What this means is that doing it after weights will prolong your catabolic state.  In an ideal situation, cardio should be separate from weights.  In real life, and considering you're a hefty guy, cardio anytime you can fit it in is better than no cardio at all.



If you are in a proper nutrational state as suggested by  Tipton (2001) & Rasmussen (2000) you will not be in a catabolic state.  This means consume your workout shakes before you get the gym and or during the gym.  It promotes higher levels of protein synthesis after the workout by counteracting the catabolic nature of cortisol during the workout.  We end up with less (unnecessary) protein degradation and as a result have higher levels of protein synthesis.





Cork said:


> When it comes to workout nutrition, if you pair cardio and weights together, I'd sip on something during cardio.



I would take this the other way as I suggested in my previous point.  Take it during the workout.  Keep cortisol low.  Use the CHO at that time to fuel the workout.  Than when you get to your cardio post workout.  You will have depleted glucose form the blood, and encouraged lipolysis (free fatty acids into the blood) as  result of GH and epinephrine stimulated by resistance training. 

Don't forget that the energy we use is primary dictated by our nutritional state, before we even consider the activity.  This is a result of the body being lazy.  It's easier to use CHO as fuel than FFA so if you injest CHO at this time the FFA you recently relased into your blood will now be re-stored as triglycerides - not helping lose fat- instead of being used as fuel.

Tip the body will always prefer to use glucose over fat if both are present in the blood.  It takes less work to generate energy.




Cork said:


> As far as HIIT options go, I'd consider anything on an elliptical to not be real HIIT.  It's too easy and not really HIIT.  My first go to is always sprinting.  Second would be sprints on a bike at a hard gear, 3rd is incline walking intervals on a treadmill.  That's just my personal preference, but you do what you like.  But if it's HIIT, usually whatever hurts the most works the best, and that won't be the option you like



Anything that does not control rate of acceleration or deceleration is optimal.  Read treadmill does not work.  Track running, cycle, ELLIPTICAL, rowing, and swimming are all great options


Here is a post of mine form a different form to help validate some of the information I provided.  

First off during RT cortisol rises, you can defend against this with CHO (causes insulin  spike which cause a shift from catabolism to anabolism therefore less muscle break down).





This is RT of 3 sets of 10 reps for 8 exercise (each a primary movement patteren). Notice that Cortisol Rises.




See there that the more cortisol one has in their body the less muscle  mass they are expected to have.  Cortisol is bad for muscle growth (in  most cases).
But if you take some CHO.




We can see that it stays relatively low throughout RT and into recovery.
Second, you should be drinking CHO and protein   (or essential amino acids or mixed amino acids - but know the response  they elicite compaired to traditional whey (EAA 8-10g= 20g Whey, MAA  12-15 = 20g whey)).




Notice that the Combo of CHO and an amino acid promote greatest levels of protein  synthesis.

And some other information to drive home the point:
*Effect of individual treatments on protein synthesis (above resting values)*

hyperinsulinemia +50%
resistance exercise +100%
increased aa availability +150%
resistance ex + aa avail +200%
resist ex + aa avail + CHO +400%
 - from various Rasmussen studies

Third, you should be drinking said shake pre workout  to maximize results.




There is a drastic difference between levels of protein  synthesis between the groups, and the most favourable outcome is pre exercise.


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## Hubauer (Sep 22, 2011)

sosc said:


> Lately 10 minutes on a bike post-workout allows me
> to lose 0.5-1% bodyfat every ten days. Typically I stop
> around the time I start sweating. This is probably the
> minimum amount of effort needed to produce results.
> ...



This is good advice. I've only been doing 15min of low intensity cardio after weights, and I'm losing fat pretty well and keeping my strength up.

Remember, 90% of weight loss will be from your diet.


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## SFW (Sep 22, 2011)

Wtf is cardio?


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## Cork (Sep 23, 2011)

Damn Pebble, thanks for expanding on my post. Good info.  Some times I am too vague.  I'm not a good writer and that comes with my lack of wordsmithing skills.

First let me say that I do not have a nutrition background, so my terminology will probably be wrong here as I try to explain what I mean.

When I say HIIT is more muscle sparing, what I mean is that during the fact, there is less immediate calorie expenditure than a bout of long light intensity cardio. With a smaller caloric need during HIIT, there is less catabolic effect and less chance for your body to eat your hard earned muscle for fuel. Someone in a well fed state might not have to worry about the difference between the 2, but we are talking about cutting and already being in a calorie deficit.

So again, I'm not really talking about direct muscle damage.  I know for a fact that HIIT is harder on the muscles than LI and I wouldn't try to say the opposite.  Do sprint intervals for 15 minutes and compare it to 45 minutes of walking on a treadmill.  I think it's easy to figure out which one does more fiber damage.

Good point with the choice of HIIT styles.  A treadmill can't respond fast enough to intensity changes.

And I actually have an intraworkout shake that carries me through weights and cardio if I do it afterwards.  I never workout without it.  I didn't know that there was research out there that proved you'll never enter a catabolic state during weights if you are well fed.  That's awesome to know.  I thought all you could do was minimize the catabolic window.


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## ThreeGigs (Oct 2, 2011)

Well, I found out last night just how much is enough:  Do cardio until your machine starts on fire.

I was on a LifeFitness elliptical machine after leg day last night. I usually push my heart rate to around 160 to start, and then taper down to 145-ish, but last night I managed to get on the one elliptical that's right by an air conditioning vent. I wound up still feeling really good after 5 minutes... so I bumped the intensity up to 165.... then 170... then 175 with occasional peaks over 180. After about 20 minutes I noticed an odd smell, like insulation frying on a hot electric motor. It got pretty intense around the 25 minute mark, to the point where I felt I didn't want to be breathing the air, so I stopped and stepped off the machine. And what do I see coming out of the back vents where the 'wheel' is? Wisps of smoke.

Ok, so it's probably just higher intensity at a lower rpm (I had some new music in the earplugs) than usual, probably coupled with some dust buildup that reduced airflow in the resistance mechanism leading to heat build-up, but still.... it's a cool feeling to be able to say you trained hard enough to start a machine on fire


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## bobble (Oct 2, 2011)

Lo





ThreeGigs said:


> Well, I found out last night just how much is enough:  Do cardio until your machine starts on fire.
> 
> I was on a LifeFitness elliptical machine after leg day last night. I usually push my heart rate to around 160 to start, and then taper down to 145-ish, but last night I managed to get on the one elliptical that's right by an air conditioning vent. I wound up still feeling really good after 5 minutes... so I bumped the intensity up to 165.... then 170... then 175 with occasional peaks over 180. After about 20 minutes I noticed an odd smell, like insulation frying on a hot electric motor. It got pretty intense around the 25 minute mark, to the point where I felt I didn't want to be breathing the air, so I stopped and stepped off the machine. And what do I see coming out of the back vents where the 'wheel' is? Wisps of smoke.
> 
> Ok, so it's probably just higher intensity at a lower rpm (I had some new music in the earplugs) than usual, probably coupled with some dust buildup that reduced airflow in the resistance mechanism leading to heat build-up, but still.... it's a cool feeling to be able to say you trained hard enough to start a machine on fire


Lmao!!!


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## Call of Ktulu (Oct 2, 2011)

So do you start to burn muscle if you don't have much fat? Say for instance 1-2% bodyfat?


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## zoco (Oct 3, 2011)

I like doing cardio in the mornings when I'm not training with weights.Usually 30-45 min of low intensity cardio or 15 min of HIIT (once in a while)


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## Mrs.V. (Oct 3, 2011)

bobble said:


> Tryin to loose bf,i usually do like 10 mins after lifting weights tredmill high intensity,or bike , my diet is pretty clean,if I do more would it hurt my muscle, like start to break down,
> Im 5 10  222 lbs  like 30% bf  , any advice would be help full would be happy with 215/220 lbs with,15%bf lean



Do cardio on your non lifting days...A tabata routine works GREAT...You really only need cardio a couple of times a week if you lift properly...



bobble said:


> U take ur post shake after ur lifting  before cardio or after ur cardio?



Protein shake after your lifting routine...



ThreeGigs said:


> Well, I found out last night just how much is enough:  Do cardio until your machine starts on fire.



I was always taught not to laugh at someone until you made sure they are ok...Since you lived to post this, I assume your good to go...

And this.... 

All of my advice is JMHO btw...


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## NcTo (Oct 3, 2011)

Call of Ktulu said:


> So do you start to burn muscle if you don't have much fat? Say for instance 1-2% bodyfat?



Good luck staying alive at a true 1-2% body fat.


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## jocksox (Oct 15, 2011)

Most excellent advice here.   Learning to cut and bulk myself.  

Must remember to dismount when equipment begins to flame up.  

Tx,

Dude.


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## sosc (Nov 23, 2011)

Further inspection shows that weight training alone is
sufficient to induce the loss of body fat coupled with
the proper intake.

So to answer your question, the answer is none when
adequately realized.


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## GFR (Nov 23, 2011)

I do 30 min before and 30 min after. I am also fat right now ( body fat 24%) so I am doing more cardio than usual. It is always medium intensity ( HR around 140-150). 

If you are 30% body fat you need a hell of allot more then 10 min of cardio.


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## TJTJ (Nov 26, 2011)

You guys are all missing one crucial element. YOUR FUCKING HEART RATE. Get a GD heart monitor. Im not going to lose you in the details so Im going to give you a simple formula on how to find your fat burning zone. 

220 - (your age) = Y. 

Y x (rate of exertion) = Target HR. 

60%-70% is considered within the  rate of exertion for fat burning.

For example....

220 - 33(age) = 187 ---> 187 x .65 (65%) = 121.55bpm 

So I would want to consistently maintain an average HR of 122bpm for a minimum of 20mins. 

You guys running your shit in the 180bpm are burning calories and muscle, not fat. If you cant hold a conversation, then going at it too hard.


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## Derrike (Nov 27, 2011)

Hi.... I am new one out here...Just joined the forum and opened up this thread.... I want to know that what discussion is being done out here... And what are we supposed to post in here... I shall be grateful on your assistance... Looking forward for positive response and Thanking in advance!! 
seo


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## dave 236 (Nov 27, 2011)

do it at the end of a workout after you've burned most of the sugar in your bloodstream. You will go to lipolysis for energy and therefore loose fat. keep the intensity to the level where you can hold a conversation but are still exerting a noticible amount of energy.


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