# Recommendation for Chest/Tricep day routine?



## goldtips (Mar 27, 2002)

Anybody have a good recommendation for a bulk/mass routine for chest/tricep day? I've written this routine over and over and I can not come up with anything right. I wrote down that chest is 8 to 10 sets right? While triceps is up to 8 sets? So what do you think about this-

Chest
1.Barbell Flatbed Bench Press 2X's 8-10 reps
2.Dumbell Bench Press 2X's 8-10
3. Barbell Declince Bench Press 2X's 8-10
4. Dumbbell Pullover 2X's 8-10 
This equals 9 sets total. 

Triceps
1. Tricep Pushdown 
2. Dumbell Dumbell Extension
3. Tricep Dips
4. Tricep dumbell one arm extension
Same as above all 2X's 8-10 reps

If this looks like not so good of a routine please change it and put your recommendation.  I remember last week I did five different exercises for chest with a five set and 10,8,6,3 rep range. That's to much isn't it? That won't help the chest grow? Last thing since I'm cutting down on sets the bicep routines plus this one I need to have heavier weight right?


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 27, 2002)

Here's a routine Gopro gave me, might be worth a try: 

Week 1 

Bench Press 3 set x 4-6rep 
Incline Press 3 set x 6-8rep 
Decline Flyes 3 set x 10-12rep 

Week 2 

Decline Bench 3 sets x 6-8reps 
Incline Dumbells 3 sets x 6-8reps 
Flat Flye 3 set x 6-8rep 
Weighted Dips 2 set x 6-8rep 

Week 3 

Incline Fly 2 set x 8-10 supersetted with..... 
Bench Press 2 set x 8-10rep 

Pec Deck or crossover 2 x 8-10 supersetted with Incline Bench 2 set x 8-10rep 

Weighted Dips Drop Set....enough wt. to get 4-5 reps, drop the wt. and get another 4-5, take all wt. off (just bodyweight) and go till failure.... only one set of this. 

Repeat after 3 weeks. Your chest will grow like a weed!!

You can do something like this for Tri's as well, 3 different exercises for a total of 9 sets changing each week for 2-3 weeks then repeat. 

The thing I really like about these type of routines that change each week is that you don't get as board doing them and it keeps your muscles guessing.


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## goldtips (Mar 27, 2002)

What am I to do without this board man. Scotty the Body or Gopro I know if you are moderators and I wanted to ask if it's okay I think maybe next I'm rewriting a whole plan for myself a totally new routine. It will include what you mentioned above. I will have everything planned. I just need Gorpro, Prince, Scotty, and others to give feedback when I'm finished writing and typing it out.


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## Robboe (Mar 27, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Scotty the Body *_
> and it keeps your muscles guessing.




tee hee.

My personal preference is keeping exercises the same until it's necessary to change. Progression is easier to measure this way.

I also rarely do more than 6 sets for any bodypart. That is just me tho.

I like flat bench, weighted dips and maybe flyes or some kind of machine work. two sets for all.

If you do tris after chest then there really is no need to do another 6-9 sets. I do 2 sets after chest and shoulders of either seated skulls or CG BP.

Nice.


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## gopro (Mar 27, 2002)

We know Chicken...we know already...


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## Robboe (Mar 27, 2002)

tee hee


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 27, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> If you do tris after chest then there really is no need to do another 6-9 sets. I do 2 sets after chest and shoulders of either seated skulls or CG BP.
> 
> Nice.



Yes, I agree with that. (ok I know I said different in my first post, I haven't been doing chest/tri's so I do 6-9sets)


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## Robboe (Mar 27, 2002)

Scotty, do you do the same amount of volume for triceps as you do chest? (if you do them on separate days that is)


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 27, 2002)

8-9 for chest and 6 for Tri's norm for me. Any more seems to be a waist of time, if I still have the energy then I know I haven't been using enough intensity.


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## gopro (Mar 27, 2002)

Currently I am training chest and tris together on one day, but this will change in a week or two...I do 6-7 sets for chest and 4-5 for tris. When on this routine I will utilize more cable movements, like pushdowns, rope extensions, single arm pushdowns...this is after my heavy chest pressing.

When training triceps on their own day I will use more basic movements like CG bench press, weighted dips, and heavy incline overhead extensions.


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## Robboe (Mar 28, 2002)

what's your reasoning for using cables more Mr 'Pro?

preference?


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 28, 2002)

I like the cables for Tri's as well, I find that theres more resistance through a greater range of motion stressing the tri's through the whole movement where as alot of free weight tri work seems to hit only in the middle of the motion.


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## Neil (Mar 28, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is pretty much how I do it. I do 3-4 sets for tri's and 9 for chest. I can't speak out against changing exercises often because I've never done it but as long as my lifts progress I always grow so I stick with the same moves and increase weight almost weekly. One thing that has helped when getting in a rut is changing the order of exercises. When I hit a plateau with flat BP I switched to doing inclines first and progressed big time on those. I will switch back to doing flat first when my inclines become stagnant.


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## gopro (Mar 28, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> what's your reasoning for using cables more Mr 'Pro?
> 
> preference?



I really only use the cables when my chest and triceps are grouped in one day like I said. After heavy pressing for chest, I like the feeling of the isolation cables supply with no more chest or delt recruitment...or very little.

When I train tris on a seperate day I usually stick to free weights only.


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## Robboe (Mar 28, 2002)

Ok man, thank you.

Scotty, what are your fundamental tricep exercises? (ie your "mass builders")


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 28, 2002)

CG Bench I think is the best, I like using the cables over free for extension exercises because of the constant tention through the movement and the ease of changing weight for quick drop sets.


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## Robboe (Mar 28, 2002)

I only asked cause you were saying you don;t feel a thorough ROm on most free-weight exercises.



> _*Originally posted by Scotty the Body *_
> I like the cables for Tri's as well, I find that theres more resistance through a greater range of motion stressing the tri's through the whole movement where as alot of free weight tri work seems to hit only in the middle of the motion.



Are you saying you don;t feel full ROM on CG BP?

Have you tried seated skulls, or seated cambar-bar extensions?


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 28, 2002)

CG bench is the only one I do feel it through the full range from bottom to top. 
I've only done lying skulls, I was referring to them and seated overhead extensions and also kickbacks as a couple that I prefer using a cable variation for. 

I've seen others suggest incline Skulls which I think I'll try, but there again I think cables could be used there to.


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## CJMAJOR (Mar 28, 2002)

I have a question then. If your progressing with more and more weight and your chest and Triceps are growing like crazy then why would you want to stop that workout and change it up? Wouldnt it be better to stick with those excercises until you plateau out and stop growing and then change the workout?
Thanks for your help.


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## Robboe (Mar 28, 2002)

CJMAJOR, you are a genius.

Go and stand on the winner's podium. 

(Your question is my exact point for not switching up)


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## Willy (Mar 28, 2002)

Seems to me that plateau are partly caused by doing the same thing all the time leaving some less used muscles behind causing progress to stop till they're brought back up. 
Switching things up makes sense, you work the entire muscle more evenly and you don't get so damn board with your workouts.


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## Robboe (Mar 28, 2002)

There's more reasons than that Willy such as recovery time, poor diet, lack of sleep/rest, poor split, vitamin and/or mineral deficiencies, poor training methods, stress etc...

You'd be suprised how tweaking something totally training-unrelated can re-spur progression.

One last thing tho, i totally agree with the boredom factor. I'd rather people put enthusiasm into their training and training sensibly more regularly as opposed to becoming bored and giving up.


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## Willy (Mar 28, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Willy *_
> plateau are partly caused


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## Willy (Mar 28, 2002)

My point is that *not changing* things up can also be a cause of a  Plateau.


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## gopro (Mar 28, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Willy *_
> My point is that *not changing* things up can also be a cause of a  Plateau.



Willy...YOU ARE THE GENIUS!!!! Take a bow. Change before the plateau is reached. The less experienced you are, the longer it will take to reach a plateau, but you will get there...change before you do!


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## ActionMatt (Mar 28, 2002)

Why does it have to be the exercise? Why not change something else, like simply the order you do them or the rep ranges?


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## CJMAJOR (Mar 28, 2002)

LOL


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## gopro (Mar 29, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by ActionMatt *_
> Why does it have to be the exercise? Why not change something else, like simply the order you do them or the rep ranges?



You can change the rep range at first, or the order, or the rep speed...but eventually, the same exercises over and over will become unproductive and/or cause an overuse injury.


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## ActionMatt (Mar 29, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> but eventually, the same exercises over and over will become unproductive and/or cause an overuse injury.



Why would that be?


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 29, 2002)

Even a slight change in grip or angle will make a difference of what muscle fibers are recruited so changing would be smart to work the entire muscle more evenly. 
This also would include how fast or slow, the order, rest time between sets or how many reps and set you do. 
I still believe that ONE exercise will work but a combination is better for overall results.


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## ActionMatt (Mar 29, 2002)

_*Originally posted by Scotty the Body *_
*Even a slight change in grip or angle will make a difference of what muscle fibers are recruited so changing would be smart to work the entire muscle more evenly.
This also would include how fast or slow, the order, rest time between sets or how many reps and set you do. *

The latter I can see. But joint angle and/or grip won't affect fiber recruitment in a single muscle. It will change the degree to which that muscle is involved in the movement as a whole, but not change the growth of the muscle. The tension necessary to cause growth is too high for the so-called compartmentalization effect to occur.
*
I still believe that ONE exercise will work but a combination is better for overall results. *

If different exercises cause different patterns of growth, why even consider only doing one exercise?


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 29, 2002)

*But joint angle and/or grip won't affect fiber recruitment in a single muscle*
So you don't think using a wider grip on flat bench will recrute more muscle fibers in the chest???? 

*If different exercises cause different patterns of growth, why even consider only doing one exercise?*
I wouldn't say they cause "different patterns", I would say that better overall growth will be the result of using diffrent exercises.


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## ActionMatt (Mar 29, 2002)

Sure it will. But it wouldn't affect say one pectoral head over the other, which I thought you were trying to imply.

If I misunderstood, I apologize.


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## Scotty the Body (Mar 29, 2002)

No problem!  

I don't pretend to know everything and I don't believe there is any ONE thing that works for everyone, I'm just trying to find the shortest route to my goals and will always keep an open mind to new ideas.


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## gopro (Mar 29, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by ActionMatt *_
> 
> 
> Why would that be?



Once you become overly neurally adapted to a movement your body will not respond as well to it. In a sense, your muscles will become "bored" with the movement pattern and no longer recruit more fibers even if more weight is used.

Overuse injuries occur when the same stress is placed on all of the attatchments over and over...sort of like a cable fraying from repeated friction.


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## Robboe (Mar 29, 2002)

Oh, so to prevent injury you switch exercises so your muscles use their _other_ tendons........


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## ActionMatt (Mar 29, 2002)

LOL @ Chicken -- good point.

I also don't see why a muscle would use less fibers even with heavier weight, at least past a certain "introductory" phase to a movement, which doesn't last very long. There's no reason that accomodation would continue past that point.


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## Robboe (Mar 29, 2002)

And how can your muscles become "bored" even when you are demanding more work from them?

The way you stop your muscles from getting "bored" is to ask more from them each week by adding reps or weight. Progressive overload. 

If they got "bored" despite more weight being added and less muscle fibres were recruited it would mean, in theory, that heavier weights would be easier to move. Is this the case? No.


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## gopro (Mar 30, 2002)

Oh children, children...so much to teach and so little time to do it. First, obviously you know nothing about "overuse injuries," which occur from repeated pressure at the exact same joint angles over and over.

Second, and I will do this just once...because I've already done it over at WBB where you Chicken and you Action are obviously from....once you become neurologically adapted to a given movement you will get better at it. Over time you will gain strength and muscle, but eventually, while you may continue to get stronger, you will start to get diminishing returns in terms of hypertrophy. Most people think that if they are getting stronger, they are getting bigger. This is no longer true once the only reason you are getting stronger is by "practicing" the same movement over and over. Eventually your nervous system will have learned the movement pattern so well, that it will no longer be forced to recruit MORE muscle fibers even if you lift more weight...which is unlikely anyway once your nervous system gets "bored."

Think of it like driving. At first you must really focus on everything you do in order to drive successfully. As time goes by, you think about it less and less, until eventually you can drive places while completely off in space thinking about something else. Your nervous system is so "good" at driving it barely needs to be focused on the task. Sometimes, if driving for distance, we may even be falling asleep, but still driving just fine.

Don't let your muscles fall asleep!

DONE WITH THIS ARGUMENT...bye, bye.


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## Robboe (Mar 31, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> Eventually your nervous system will have learned the movement pattern so well, that it will no longer be forced to recruit MORE muscle fibers even if you lift more weight...




lol. That is just not true.


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## gopro (Mar 31, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> 
> 
> lol. That is just not true.




Sorry, it is.

Oh, by the way...nice new signature line. I hope you don't think that I claim myself to be GOD, or that I claim to know everything there is to know about training...because NOBODY DOES!

But if you REALLY do want to know why inclines DO help the clavicular pectoralis grow, you'll HAVE to ask GOD himself...he made the rules...I didn't.


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## Robboe (Mar 31, 2002)

Who said my sig was about you? 


P.s. It's not true.


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## ActionMatt (Mar 31, 2002)

I just want to know how the clavicular head can grow more when the whole muscle is contracting. That's all I ask.


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## gopro (Mar 31, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by ActionMatt *_
> I just want to know how the clavicular head can grow more when the whole muscle is contracting. That's all I ask.



The problem with this question is that it depends on what you believe and how you decide to interpret both science and real world experience...

Some studies have shown that certain movements will target certain areas of a muscle more than others. This is especially true in more complex muscle groups.

Also, I can go to the gym and make my upper chest more sore than my lower chest. I can make the long head of my triceps more sore than my outer head.

Do you believe this is leading to more growth in these areas? Probably not. But I do. Not only do I know it instictively, but I have seen it over and over right in front of me.

End of story...


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## Robboe (Apr 1, 2002)

Hey ActionMatt, that basically means he can't tell you


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## gopro (Apr 1, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Hey ActionMatt, that basically means he can't tell you



Wrong, I just told him! Why, do you need an article by some pencilneck in a lab suit from the " New England Journal of Medicine" to give you an answer you can live with?


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## Robboe (Apr 1, 2002)

lol, now that was funny!

Ironic how you use "studies" in your reply but then you dismiss them again.

Also, soreness does not indicate growth.


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## gopro (Apr 1, 2002)

I WILL occasionally quote a study, but I have said it here and I've said it at WBB...I will put my EXPERIENCE before any study in existence. Studies are not worthless, but they ARE NOT the holy grail.

And while soreness does not necessarily mean growth, it is a good indicator of where muscle damage has occured...and muscle that has been damaged must be repaired...often bigger and stronger.


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## CJMAJOR (Apr 1, 2002)

He has got a point their!!


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## Tank316 (Apr 1, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> I WILL occasionally quote a study, but I have said it here and I've said it at WBB...I will put my EXPERIENCE before any study in existence. Studies are not worthless, but they ARE NOT the holy grail.
> 
> And while soreness does not necessarily mean growth, it is a good indicator of where muscle damage has occured...and muscle that has been damaged must be repaired...often bigger and stronger.


i wish i would have said that. that was like POETRY.my training tells me ,yes inclines do work GP.and ya know what, that comes from an ole fart like me.


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## Robboe (Apr 2, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> And while soreness does not necessarily mean growth, it is a good indicator of where muscle damage has occured...and muscle that has been damaged must be repaired...often bigger and stronger.




But this just isn't true. Your photos are testament to it!

If you could cause uneven growth in one muscle then the muscle would be all lumpy and bumpy. Is this the case? No. Muscles are smooth and even for the most part.


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## gopro (Apr 2, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My photos are testament to nothing...you have nothing to compare them to. Besides, muscles would not be lumpy and bumply because the growth is suttle and spread throughout an entire area. I never said you could cause one section of a muscle to explode with growth while leaving the rest completely behind. Also, you can't cause growth that is beyond what your genetics dictate, however, in order to achieve that genetic limit you must work all areas of a muscle.


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