# Doggcrapp Training



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 18, 2006)

I have loads of info on this stuff, I just want to know if you guys would be offended if I posted it up. I know some people like to keep this stuff hush hush, but what about you guys, mods???


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## RippedNYLifter (Feb 18, 2006)

What are you guys born under a rock?


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## CowPimp (Feb 18, 2006)

Give the mods more than 40 minutes to respond...  It's Saturday morning for Christ's sake...


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## min0 lee (Feb 18, 2006)

RippedNYLifter meet CowPimp, he's a good guy.


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## CowPimp (Feb 18, 2006)

By the way, I'm pretty sure it's fine if you post information regarding a training protocol.  They just don't like blatant advertsing of other websites.


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## P-funk (Feb 18, 2006)

post whatever you want.  It has been posted before so it is nothing new.


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## Dale Mabry (Feb 18, 2006)

I am not working out with dogg crapp. sorry.


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## P-funk (Feb 18, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> I am not working out with dogg crapp. sorry.



the last part of the name sums it up....CRAP


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## DOMS (Feb 18, 2006)

Dog Crap training?  

Good Lord, tell me this doesn't include the nutrition part of bodybuilding.


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## min0 lee (Feb 18, 2006)

I think some members will be interested in DoggCrapp training, different strokes for different folks.


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## P-funk (Feb 18, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> I think some members will be interested in DoggCrapp training, different strokes for different folks.



I think so too.  I think it should be posted.  I was just fucking around.


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## GFR (Feb 18, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> What are you guys born under a rock?


*Yes*


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## Nate K (Feb 18, 2006)

Yuh... post some dog crap training, sounds like good stuff.


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## Doublebase (Feb 18, 2006)

Where are you NYLifter?  Lets see this info.


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## GFR (Feb 18, 2006)

Doublebase said:
			
		

> Where are you NYLifter?  Lets see this info.


I think he is  "under a rock"


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## mPK (Feb 18, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> Not a big fan of DOGCRAP after the way he wanted to take credit for my training methods.  I say leave him in the DOGPOUND where he belongs!!!!



 

Wtf is dogcrap training?


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## Tough Old Man (Feb 18, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> I have loads of info on this stuff, I just want to know if you guys would be offended if I posted it up. I know some people like to keep this stuff hush hush, but what about you guys, mods???


The problem with it is dante doesn't want it posted. Trust me i know because i have used his system and he ask me not to post his training on other forums. 

I also have his complete training manual plus cycling for pennies in word format. 

Do what you want.


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## P-funk (Feb 18, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> The problem with it is dante doesn't want it posted. Trust me i know because i have used his system and he ask me not to post his training on other forums.
> 
> I also have his complete training manual plus cycling for pennies in word format.
> 
> Do what you want.




well, to be honest, if the guy doesn't want it posted he shouldn't give out his training program.

If your program is so damn good then why wouldn't you want anyone else to know about it?


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## IRON MAN (Feb 18, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> well, to be honest, if the guy doesn't want it posted he shouldn't give out his training program.
> 
> If your program is so damn good then why wouldn't you want anyone else to know about it?



Exactly..


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## min0 lee (Feb 18, 2006)

mPK said:
			
		

> Wtf is dogcrap training?


it's another form of training


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## GFR (Feb 18, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> it's another form of training


Tough knows all about it


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## CowPimp (Feb 18, 2006)

It's a pure HIT routine that calls for a specific split, a systematic way to determine when to make exercise changes, and extreme stretching techniques.


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## gopro (Feb 18, 2006)

Dante is a great guy and one of the most knowledgable guys in this industry...and his methods work very, very well for people that are suited for that type of training.

Actually, we have alot of guys that switch off between P/RR/S and DC training.


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## P-funk (Feb 18, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> What an easy fucking question to answere. Cause no one puts it up the way it's intended to be used.
> 
> How would you like someone saying that Patrick says you are to do it this way when it's the wrong way to do it. This is what happens to 99% of the post people put up about dogg crapp training.
> 
> ...




gotcha...I didn't think of that.


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## Tough Old Man (Feb 18, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> gotcha...I didn't think of that.


Exactly. Wouldn't be fair for someone to try your training put up by someone else and then someone try it and say it sucks without you there to defend yourself whether there doing it right or not. 

Dogg Crapp training as well as Iron Man's training is more complicated then it appears to be. Think of this, if it wasn't would Cycling for pennies had over 100,000 post with over 1 million viewers.

Iron Man would we need you if we understood your training 100%. No why would we. See we need the originators of there training to make sure we are doing things correctly and this can only be done by asking questions to the originator

Tough


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## IRON MAN (Feb 18, 2006)

I mis-read the post. I was agreeing with P-FUNK to the fact that DOGCRAPP should have never handed his training program out to the public if he didnt want others to see it..MAKES ZERO SENSE TO ME??? 

I should have read the post more carefully.TOM if you think I was dis-agereing with you I was not. You know more about DC training than anyone on the board.


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## Mudge (Feb 18, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> well, to be honest, if the guy doesn't want it posted he shouldn't give out his training program.
> 
> If your program is so damn good then why wouldn't you want anyone else to know about it?



He gave out bits and peices, then someone he claims he was training started pumping it as his own program - that is what he says.

Since he is a trainer, and taylors his program to specific people, obviously a generic prigram wasn't his style. His training had also changed through the ages.

I haven't kept up to date honestly and wasn't aware that him and IRON MAN were at odds.


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## RippedNYLifter (Feb 18, 2006)

Guy sorry, been busy today, here it comes


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## RippedNYLifter (Feb 18, 2006)

Going to start a new thread cause I can't attatch .zip files. It's going to be heyyouge


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## Tough Old Man (Feb 18, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> I mis-read the post. I was agreeing with P-FUNK to the fact that DOGCRAPP should have never handed his training program out to the public if he didnt want others to see it..MAKES ZERO SENSE TO ME???
> 
> I should have read the post more carefully.TOM if you think I was dis-agereing with you I was not. You know more about DC training than anyone on the board. I know only what I have spoken of openly.
> 
> I guess thats what I get for spending time here and trying to build my forum TO HELP OTHERS at the same time. I need to stick to doing only one thing at a time..


My mistake. I should have worded it differently. I'm just trying to protect those who are generous enough to get on a site and help others like you do. we don't need your personal training spread around without you being there. Only you know your training and the rest are students of that. We have no right claiming such on another site. 

Tough


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## Tough Old Man (Feb 18, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> Going to start a new thread cause I can't attatch .zip files. It's going to be heyyouge


Do yourself a favor and keep DC Training to yourself unless he gives you authorization to do other. It's called respect. 

Tough


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## RippedNYLifter (Feb 18, 2006)

TOM: I used to protect this shit, but seriously why? I mean yes I do care but damn this stuff works good, and it has been posted all over the place then tryed to be removed. Dante himself has said this stuff is old and doesn't set his trainees programs up like this anymore.


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## IRON MAN (Feb 18, 2006)

Mudge said:
			
		

> He gave out bits and peices, then someone he claims he was training started pumping it as his own program - that is what he says.
> 
> Since he is a trainer, and taylors his program to specific people, obviously a generic prigram wasn't his style. His training had also changed through the ages.
> 
> I haven't kept up to date honestly and wasn't aware that him and IRON MAN were at odds.



Mudge I feel more sorry for Dante more than anything at this point and hope that some day he realizes he was wrong in the way he acted towards me.He wants some form of credit for my training system. He's under the impression that I stole rest-pause training from him and its just not so. I developed my rest-pause technique from Mike Mentzer out a  Joe Weider book many years ago and perfected my own version that was user friendly. Mike Mentzer was a brilliant man but he left his roots in his older age and began to hurt more than help. I trained for two straight years with various forms of rest-pause and realized it's very bad for over-training the CNS and must be approached with dilligence. 

I used to be a muscle mag junky.I will openly admit to that fact with no form of embarrasment.OKAY MAYBE A LITTLE.. I spent quite a bit of money on books as well. I went to the book store and read books/mags on bodybuilding as often as possible. But, I can honesty say 99% of the articles were "JOHNNY ONE NOTE" or complete "GARBAGE" and "LIES". The stuff that worked was put into the IRONMAN "HIT," and the stuff that failed was discarded. No need in trying something a second time around if it never worked the first time regardless of what others might preach. It took me along time to perfect my routine but once it was done I was finally content...Guess what??? I never read muscle mags anymore. No need in trying to fix something that aint broke.


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## Tough Old Man (Feb 18, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> TOM: I used to protect this shit, but seriously why? I mean yes I do care but damn this stuff works good, and it has been posted all over the place then tryed to be removed. Dante himself has said this stuff is old and doesn't set his trainees programs up like this anymore.


go fuck yourself asshole. you can't getr me banned like you did at intense muscle asshole. 

*IRON MAN'S TRAINING IS 10 TIMES THAT OF DANTE'S*


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## min0 lee (Feb 18, 2006)




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## DOMS (Feb 18, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> go fuck yourself asshole. you can't getr me banned like you did at *intense muscle asshole*.



There is a forum named "Intense Muscle Asshole"?   Someone has to tell topolo and min0.


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## RippedNYLifter (Feb 18, 2006)

What are you talking about? I didn't get anyone banned anyplace.


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## GFR (Feb 18, 2006)

I feel like 1/2 a fag for reading this crap


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## Tough Old Man (Feb 18, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> What are you talking about? I didn't get anyone banned anyplace.


LOOK YOU WANT TO SUCK DANTE'S DICK GO FOR IT.  



Tough


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## RippedNYLifter (Feb 18, 2006)

Dude, I'm not sucking anyone. I posted up some DC articles damn. Go ahead post all his adresses your only hurting Dante not me. I really don't see what your problem is, and why you arer acting so immature/paranoid. Now the real question who did I supposedly ban on IM what was your username?


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## Tough Old Man (Feb 18, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> Dude, I'm not sucking anyone. I posted up some DC articles damn. Go ahead post all his adresses your only hurting Dante not me. I really don't see what your problem is, and why you arer acting so immature/paranoid. Now the real question who did I supposedly ban on IM what was your username?


Do yourself a favor and do patronize me. just stay clear of me asshole or i'll fucking hunt your ass down.


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## RippedNYLifter (Feb 18, 2006)

I just want to know why out off all people you hold such a big grudge against ME. Calm down dude, I'm just wondering what I did over at IM to offend you so badly. If you would like we take this to pms


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## Tough Old Man (Feb 18, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> I just want to know why out off all people you hold such a big grudge against ME. Calm down dude, I'm just wondering what I did over at IM to offend you so badly. If you would like we take this to pms


this is so easy. Big a and Dante promised to go to every site that iron man's on and start shit to try and get him banned. well it's not going to happen here at I/M. Robert is a smart person who does well with his business and doubt that he's going to let anyone come over to his site and tear someone down neverless one of his moderators. 

Now if your not part of dante's group trhen i apologise. but keep dantes threads off here and let dante register and post his own if he chooses to. 

Now hopefully we have an understanding. 

Tough


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## min0 lee (Feb 18, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I feel like 1/2 a fag for reading this crap


Trust me.....you always were before that.  Now hush, the show is on.


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## RippedNYLifter (Feb 18, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> this is so easy. Big a and Dante promised to go to every site that iron man's on and start shit to try and get him banned. well it's not going to happen here at I/M. Robert is a smart person who does well with his business and doubt that he's going to let anyone come over to his site and tear someone down neverless one of his moderators.
> 
> Now if your not part of dante's group trhen i apologise. but keep dantes threads off here and let dante register and post his own if he chooses to.
> 
> ...


You've got me all wrong bro, I'm glad we got that cleared up


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## Tough Old Man (Feb 18, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> You've got me all wrong bro, I'm glad we got that cleared up


read some of this and give it a go and you tell me who's training is better.

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=68


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## gopro (Feb 18, 2006)

Dante did a pretty good job of getting David Henry into shape...he just placed second at the IRON MAN, ironically enough!


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## Tough Old Man (Feb 19, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> Dante did a pretty good job of getting David Henry into shape...he just placed second at the IRON MAN, ironically enough!


There's no doubt that Dante's training is at the top of the list somewhere. Just wasn't for me. Personally I could grow a lot bigger with your training then Dante's. So for me I put your training ahead of his.


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## P-funk (Feb 19, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> Credit goest to Dante for helping Henry into shape..
> 
> Tell Dante that IRON MAN  aka "IRONMAN" said to keep up the good work by teaching others to lift heavier on a continual basis with compound movements on a 3 day week program.He has some good ideas about training.




I thought you said he stole his ideas on training from you?  Now you are giving him props?


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## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 19, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> LOOK YOU WANT TO SUCK DANTE'S DICK GO FOR IT. i'LL GIVE YOU HIS SAN DIEGO ADDRESS.
> 
> Now you and that steroid selling prick stay away for I/M before I post some of his fucking cyber-right emails.
> 
> ...



Seriously why do I have emails coming to my email box saying "Dante you better go look at this stuff"--I dont want to be over here tougholdman--but you make me have to sign up and reply to your posts. Im starting to think your schizophrenic tough old man. You apologize to me in PMS at pro muscle. You say you are burying the hatchet publically and then I get emails today saying "hey this guy is ripping on you"

A)dont ever call me a steroid selling prick--ever--dont make stuff up that everyone online knows isnt true because your mad at something else. My cyber-rights emails to you--god damn you make the biggest thing about this tough old man. Do you know how many people email me a day? I should of just deleted your emails. let me bottom line if for everyone (gee once again)--tough old man emailed me and told me what he does (he lives in mexico)--I pretty much said "looks ok" or "i wouldnt do that at your age" and maybe some other token statements for the reason TOM to go to the next email. I answered your emails about training and what you were personally doing as politely and quickly as I could and you are complaining about that?


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## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 19, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> this is so easy. Big a and Dante promised to go to every site that iron man's on and start shit to try and get him banned. well it's not going to happen here at I/M. Robert is a smart person who does well with his business and doubt that he's going to let anyone come over to his site and tear someone down neverless one of his moderators.
> 
> Now if your not part of dante's group trhen i apologise. but keep dantes threads off here and let dante register and post his own if he chooses to.
> 
> ...



Where do you make this shit up? I promised to go to every site that iron man is on and start shit? The only reason this is my second post on this site is because my freind I think your delusional. Rippednylifter I dont know who you are but I really dont want my stuff posted over here at all, just because of what you see happening right now.


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## GFR (Feb 19, 2006)




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## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 19, 2006)

Im asking the moderators of this site to please remove anything that has to do with my training. Including the cuts and pastes rippednybodybuilder put up please. Ironman and I had a disagreement on some certain things (thats known)---regardless I respect what he is trying to accomplish and in no way whatsoever want my stuff over here on this site causing these kind of arguments or (competing/interfering) in what I feel is (his turf) for lack of better words. You can see right here what happens--it becomes a huge battle (and I hate drama and dont want it). Ironman has some unique ideas of his own and I hope he continues on with those paths. There are things as stated previously(between him and I) that he knows I dont understand or agree with, maybe with time we will iron them out....in fact that would make me much happier. If tougholdman can stop going Sybil here then I dont get the emails I have to respond to. Again I ask that any and all DC cut and pastes be removed if possible and I would like tougholdmans post above labeling me as something that everyone and their brother knows Im obviously not removed--thanks


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## Tough Old Man (Feb 19, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> A)dont ever call me a steroid selling prick--


Yes I could have choosen other words to used but I didn't and but I want apologize to you. I'll go back and delete that part and that's it. 

It didn't take you long to send your buddies over here to try and tear down Iron Man did it by having them start posting your training. How do I know this by your coment just made. You got a lot of emails from guys. Right the guys you sent over. Go away


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## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 19, 2006)

tougholdman--I didnt send anyone over here, christ im a 37 year old man my freind, I dont play these foolish games--I know you have some paranoia going on--I dont even know what to say to you because your sane one minute and off your rocker the next. I dont know who rippednybodybuilder is (maybe he can clue us both in)--I dont have control of every guy on the net tom that is going to cut and paste 5-6 year old articles from me from CFP im sorry. And if it isnt rippednybodybuilder your talking about "tearing down ironman" please tell me what screen name your referring to so I can see what your leading to please. 

Ironman to answer your question in this post why i asked all other sites to delete all my past writings and articles--its because of this stuff right here. I cant stand the arguing (and Ill take no arguing over "more publicity or notoriety" any day of the week)--as I started all this for the exact reasons you did--to help people


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## Tough Old Man (Feb 19, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> Im asking the moderators of this site to please remove anything that has to do with my training. Including the cuts and pastes rippednybodybuilder put up please. Ironman and I had a disagreement on some certain things (thats known)---regardless I respect what he is trying to accomplish and in no way whatsoever want my stuff over here on this site causing these kind of arguments or (competing/interfering) in what I feel is (his turf) for lack of better words. You can see right here what happens--it becomes a huge battle (and I hate drama and dont want it). Ironman has some unique ideas of his own and I hope he continues on with those paths. There are things as stated previously(between him and I) that he knows I dont understand or agree with, maybe with time we will iron them out....in fact that would make me much happier. If tougholdman can stop going Sybil here then I dont get the emails I have to respond to. Again I ask that any and all DC cut and pastes be removed if possible and I would like tougholdmans post above labeling me as something that everyone and their brother knows Im obviously not removed--thanks


I removed my part. But you need to read the entire thread as I was on your side until that fucker wouldn't stop. That's when i figured they were here for a reason and that was to tarnish Iron Man. Where these assholes came from and who sent them last night to start three post, who knows.

Tough


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## Tough Old Man (Feb 19, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> tougholdman--I didnt send anyone over here, christ im a 37 year old man my freind, I dont play these foolish games--I know you have some paranoia going on--I dont even know what to say to you because your sane one minute and off your rocker the next. I dont know who rippednybodybuilder is (maybe he can clue us both in)--I dont have control of every guy on the net tom that is going to cut and paste 5-6 year old articles from me from CFP im sorry. And if it isnt rippednybodybuilder your talking about "tearing down ironman" please tell me what screen name your referring to so I can see what your leading to please.
> 
> Ironman to answer your question in this post why i asked all other sites to delete all my past writings and articles--its because of this stuff right here. I cant stand the arguing (and Ill take no arguing over "more publicity or notoriety" any day of the week)--as I started all this for the exact reasons you did--to help people


Dante re3ad my threads. I was telling them not to post your training for various reasons. I made the statement that if you want your training posted here to have Dante come over and post it so you could back up your training. 

One thing I did learn from you last year was not to put of any part of your training as I my put it up wrong. So I backed you though 99% of this thread and the other two in regards to people posting your training.


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## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 19, 2006)

well tom i kind of got lost via your first messages in this post with your accusations in the latter pages 

I want Ironman to do his thing and I dont want to be over here--bottom line


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## min0 lee (Feb 19, 2006)




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## min0 lee (Feb 19, 2006)

So Doggcrapp is not to be shared here?


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## Arnold (Feb 19, 2006)




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## Triple Threat (Feb 19, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

>



Move over and pass the popcorn, please!


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## RippedNYLifter (Feb 19, 2006)

Okay damn, I didn't think this would cause this much of a problem. Mods delete this thread please.


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## min0 lee (Feb 19, 2006)

So are we not allowed to talk about DC?


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## Dale Mabry (Feb 19, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> Okay damn, I didn't think this would cause this much of a problem. Mods delete this thread please.



No.


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## Arnold (Feb 19, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> So are we not allowed to talk about DC?



of course, you think he can come here and tell me what can be talked about, get real. carry on...


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## IRON MAN (Feb 19, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> TOM: I used to protect this shit, but seriously why? I mean yes I do care but damn this stuff works good, and it has been posted all over the place then tryed to be removed. Dante himself has said this stuff is old and doesn't set his trainees programs up like this anymore.



It's been my experience that once the word  gets out at the local gyms, etc, on how a trainers program is set up, the personal trainer has to use savy tactics such as saying he has since added on to his training/diet methods to maintain his business.


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## kenwood (Feb 19, 2006)

carry on please


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## IRON MAN (Feb 19, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> I thought you said he stole his ideas on training from you?  Now you are giving him props?



I was only giving him credit were credit is due. I'm not a hater.I just speak what's on my mind and move on.   One day I look for him to give me credit for my 22 inch guns. 

I do not know with 100% accuracy if DOGCRAPP stole my training ideas. His rest-pause method resembles mine but he may have built his version upon Mike Mentzers ideas as I did. My rest-pause method was being developed back in the early 80's but was not perfected until the mid-late 80's. I'll let the listening audience be the judge as to whether or not DOGCRAPP stole my 11-15 rep range/rest pause. 

I'll go back over to my sub-forum  now and stay out of this DRAMA..However, I would like to say it's quite refreshing to see that Dogcrapp is not able to bully IronMagazine members as he has done on other sites..


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## Mudge (Feb 19, 2006)

Is it not possible for two, or more, people to have similar training theories? I dont see why not.

Its like guitarists, I hear similar licks all the time from different bands in different generes. There are only so many original ideas out there to be discovered.

Who invented the barbell or the dumbell curl? Should we say we are all haters and copycats because we dont know who to give credit to?

Frankly, who gives a shit. This is weightlifting and/or bodybuilding we are talking about, nobody is losing millions over this and nobodies ego should be shattered either. Just lift your damn weights and be happy, if someone else trains in a similar way WHO CARES. 

Someone out there probably said someone stole his idea when he saw someone doing a squat, or a barbell pullover. Its damn ridiculous. I would hope we can live in a world where we can see the value in other peoples ideas without being called a thief.


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## Dale Mabry (Feb 20, 2006)

Mudge and I once made great music together, but when he decided to steal my idea to utilize dumbbells from time to time rather than just using a barbell all the time, we parted ways.  We haven't talked since and, to this day, I wonder if I may live to regret this decision.


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## Mudge (Feb 20, 2006)

I was forced to accept the dumbells due to shoulder injury, the theft was unintentional!! Secretly, I know you liked it in the boot.


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## Tough Old Man (Feb 20, 2006)

Mudge said:
			
		

> Is it not possible for two, or more, people to have similar training theories? I dont see why not.
> 
> Its like guitarists, I hear similar licks all the time from different bands in different generes. There are only so many original ideas out there to be discovered.
> 
> ...


Your statements wouldn't hold water in Dante's eyes. He is demanding that Iron Man give hom credit for his training because they both use a Rest / Pause. Iron's rest / pause is a little different. It is for only the last set and only during the last 3 weeks of the program. Not only that it is to be done on anyone of the rep ranges as long as it's the last set. Also you only take 5 deep breaths and not 15. 

I'm just glad we have Robert here as our owner / administrator who also won't let someone come over here and tear down his site like they did to Pro muscle whether there popular or not. 

Thanks Robert

Tough


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## Dale Mabry (Feb 20, 2006)

Mudge said:
			
		

> I was forced to accept the dumbells due to shoulder injury, the theft was unintentional!! Secretly, I know you liked it in the boot.




Don't piss in my ear and tell me it's raining Mudge.  P-funk may believe your web of lies, but the truth shall set you free.  Repent, and thou shalt be saved.


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## RippedNYLifter (Feb 20, 2006)

Why don't you guys create a flaming forum for this stuff to get it out of your system? It seems like none of you can have a debate without flaming...


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## gopro (Feb 20, 2006)

Uh oh...I just remembered...I talked about how I use rest-pause training in my last Iron Man magazine article on advanced P/RR/S training. Looks like we are going to have another new thread.........................


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## Dale Mabry (Feb 20, 2006)

I don't understand what the hubub is all about.  Most of the people coming up with "new" concepts are taking them from someone else's work anyway.


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## CowPimp (Feb 20, 2006)

I invented weight lifting.  I was lifting rocks so I could battle dinosaurs about 65 million years ago.  I win.  Thanks for playing.


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## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 20, 2006)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> of course, you think he can come here and tell me what can be talked about, get real. carry on...



Robert I was trying to demand anything of you, I was just trying to put out the fire the best way I know how


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## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 20, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> It's been my experience that once the word  gets out at the local gyms, etc, on how a trainers program is set up, the personal trainer has to use savy tactics such as saying he has since added on to his training/diet methods to maintain his business.



really? even when that guy has said all over the place that he is kind of getting burnt out on training people and is removing himself slowly from it? Yea thats a great marketing ploy


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 20, 2006)




----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 20, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> Uh oh...I just remembered...I talked about how I use rest-pause training in my last Iron Man magazine article on advanced P/RR/S training. Looks like we are going to have another new thread.........................


Looks like you need to give Dante credit for your training. Oh wait you no longer use rest pause. Your safe from the evil Dante.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 20, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> really? even when that guy has said all over the place that he is kind of getting burnt out on training people and is removing himself slowly from it? Yea thats a great marketing ploy




if you are getting burnt out and trying to get away from trainin gpeople then why do you care if your program gets posted around?


----------



## Arnold (Feb 20, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> Robert I was trying to demand anything of you, I was just trying to put out the fire the best way I know how



if that were true you never would have responded in this thread.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 20, 2006)

Dante you come over here and act like you did at P/M and the members here will tear you up. Then you'll know and feel like Iron Man did at P/M when you had all your buddies attack him over there. 

There's pro trainers here that are real popular with the members and are not going to take your Dogg Crapp. 

I remember how you bragged on P/M about how you could come over get what you wanted cause they have been after you for an interview here. You want you interview, post your training up and answered some questions. Wait you don't want to do that cause you might have to answered them instead of ducking them. I just saw a post by a guy on your site that asked you what your measurements are now. You ducked the question with this answered. I can't answered that now because of an injury I had 3 months ago. 

Remember the question I asked you. Dante do you feel if you would have done more bicep work, your biceps might have grown more. You ducked it by deleting the post. 

See the trainers here answered all questions and don't duck them. There's the difference between you and a real trainer. They answered the question with an answered. 

Your right I don't like you. Your conceded, egotistical and a arrogant Mofo who just looks for things to pick on people with. You want credit, give some to Iron Man and Gopro for there rest / pause you stole from them. 

Tough


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

*This is me after 5 weeks of* *DOGGCRAPP training....I am not only bigger and more ripped but I'm way sexy now also.










*


----------



## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 20, 2006)

> I was only giving him credit were credit is due. I'm not a hater.I just speak what's on my mind and move on.   One day I look for him to give me credit for my 22 inch guns.
> I do not know with 100% accuracy if DOGCRAPP stole my training ideas. His rest-pause method resembles mine but he may have built his version upon Mike Mentzers ideas as I did. My rest-pause method was being developed back in the early 80's but was not perfected until the mid-late 80's. I'll let the listening audience be the judge as to whether or not DOGCRAPP stole my 11-15 rep range/rest pause.



LOLOL-here is my prior statement to you in this thread *"There are things as stated previously(between him and I) that he knows I dont understand or agree with, maybe with time we will iron them out....in fact that would make me much happier"*......but no problem if you want to take the low road in all this Im fine with that. Your the ultimate backtracker.  Well my rest pause theories are actually in print in the early 90's thru Hardcore Muscle so you can go and say "well I invented pop tarts" for all I care, it just follows up your reputation as a con/bullshit artist. Its so convenient when people come around with "well I was doing that 5, 10, 15 years ago" *after the fact*. How convenient it is that rest pause training has always been (to everyone) a set of 6 singles (ala mentzer), UNIVERSALLY. Yet you for some weird unexplained reason you came up with rest pausing in the 11-15 range with 3 failure points like myself back in the 80's--LOL. Maybe you actually dont borrow from others because Ive always have made it a point to cite others in articles (that Ive borrowed from), yet you say you came up with it all yourself (you and only you) 
a)you've said you train ronnie coleman to many people and got your ass handed to you there as a bullshitter. You've said you train top pros and amateurs, yet for some reason its all hush hush top secret (again absolutely crap)
b)you copy other peoples material continually (Iron Addicts, Phils, Mine, and Arthur L Rea) and call it your own, and you know what, Im fine with that but when you blatantly copy something verbatim and then turn around and say its all your own idea and you never read the guy before--you kind of look bad in alot of peoples eyes. 
c)a person well known on the boards pmed you something about a outline he did recently, supplement wise. You took that outline and answered someone elses question on a board verbatim with it and didnt even give the guy who PMed you credit. How absolutely pathetic is that? 
d)everyone and their brother know your MR biceps but for some reason you cant tell people the truth about that either
http://premiermuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5567
e)you know what the sad part is all this is? You have some novel ideas that are all your own that could be usefull to the masses. The problem is your morals/values as a person in all this are incredibly dissapointing. I know what you so definitively seek. To be recognized. To be followed. To have a legion of people who believe in what you say. And you know what you probably could of done that on the merits of your OWN work without all the bullshitting--thats what is sad.

Hey everyone at least you got one trainer on this board who is a standup individual and doesnt bullshit his ass off so people will follow him, and his reputation is absolutely outstanding--BodyFX    



> I'll go back over to my sub-forum  now and stay out of this DRAMA..However, I would like to say it's quite refreshing to see that Dogcrapp is not able to bully IronMagazine members as he has done on other sites..



Other sites? I have absolutely no power at all at pro muscle--zero! I dont know Big A in the least and to be honest I dont think he likes me very much as he and I have similiar businesses. The problem of what happened over there is you tried to lie to one to many people Ironman. You cannot come online and tell knowledgeable people in this sport that you train the Mr Olympia without people checking up on you. The board owner checked you out and found out that you were fabricating things. So does he keep you on his board? Or does he remove you? He chose to remove you. Had absolutely nothing to do with me.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 20, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

>


did you bring enough for all of us?


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 20, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> did you bring enough for all of us?


 
I don't think so.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 20, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> I don't think so.


well go pop some more biatch....i'm just catching up


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 20, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> well go pop some more biatch....i'm just catching up


----------



## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 20, 2006)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> if that were true you never would have responded in this thread.



Really? someone calls you a steroid dealer and you wouldnt respond robert?  I was nothing but cool to the original owner of this board (who I believe got sick) with letting him put up that conglomeration of that DC manual that got you guys alot of traffic. Why dont you check with him what kind of person I conduct myself as.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 20, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

>


----------



## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 20, 2006)

tougholdman--you have sent me 2 apologies via pm yesterday and an apology on pro muscle last week and an apology at my email address yesterday, then you rip on me openly. Its almost comedic (do you really wonder why I dont respond to your emails and PM's?) Its because I know that your apology means absolutely nothing. Your the one and only reason Im even over here right now, because you never can keep your trap shut.


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)




----------



## P-funk (Feb 20, 2006)

possibly one of the best threads in IM history!!


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 20, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> possibly one of the best threads in IM history!!


 
It's a clash of the Titans type of thread.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 20, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> It's a clash of the Titans type of thread.




I may just have to 'stickie' it.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 20, 2006)

I deem this thread unclosable.


----------



## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 20, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Dante you come over here and act like you did at P/M and the members here will tear you up. Then you'll know and feel like Iron Man did at P/M when you had all your buddies attack him over there.
> 
> There's pro trainers here that are real popular with the members and are not going to take your Dogg Crapp.



I do know of one pro trainer over here--thats bodyfx



> I remember how you bragged on P/M about how you could come over get what you wanted cause they have been after you for an interview here. You want you interview, post your training up and answered some questions. Wait you don't want to do that cause you might have to answered them instead of ducking them. I just saw a post by a guy on your site that asked you what your measurements are now. You ducked the question with this answered. I can't answered that now because of an injury I had 3 months ago.



Huh? I cant even follow you any more because you pull things out that are just crazy talk. Pro muscle never asked me for an interview. Ironman magazine asked me to do an interview (the newstand magazine). The guy on IM asked me what im lifting now, I said nothing I just had surgery again (10 days ago) my second minor surgery in the last 3 months. What do you want me to tell him? That im squatting 500 and deadlifting 600 for reps? Im on injury reserve my freind. I told him I was recovering.  ????? Is there something wrong with the truth



> Remember the question I asked you. Dante do you feel if you would have done more bicep work, your biceps might have grown more. You ducked it by deleting the post.



I ducked it because it was the 30th time I answered that question and it could of been found very easily in the search engine or by one of my trainees on that site



> See the trainers here answered all questions and don't duck them. There's the difference between you and a real trainer. They answered the question with an answered.


 
You are right and I am wrong. Im sorry that I didnt answer your question Tom. I might of been really busy that day or didnt want to answer a repetitive question, but regardless, I should of taken the time and answered your question. Hows that?



> Your right I don't like you. Your conceded, egotistical and a arrogant Mofo who just looks for things to pick on people with. You want credit, give some to Iron Man and Gopro for there rest / pause you stole from them


. 

Tom you not liking me after seeing how many boards youve been banned at and your "Dante bro im sorry, no more trouble from me, truce" pms and emails and then ripping on me the next........is really not of importance with me


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> I do know of one pro trainer over here--thats bodyfx
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## P-funk (Feb 20, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> I do know of one pro trainer over here--thats bodyfx




I am a trainer.

Dale is a trainer.


We just prefer to train athletes instead of fags in speedo's and posing oil.


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> I am a trainer.
> 
> Dale is a trainer.
> 
> We just prefer to train athletes instead of fags in speedo's and posing oil.


 P-funkowned x1,000,000


----------



## shiznit2169 (Feb 20, 2006)

> I am a trainer.
> 
> Dale is a trainer.
> 
> We just prefer to train athletes instead of fags in speedo's and posing oil.



so what? Power lifters make fun of bodybuilders for being weak and BB's make fun of powerlifters for being fat. Everyone has their own preference for their lifestyle and goals.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 20, 2006)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> so what? Power lifters make fun of bodybuilders for being weak and BB's make fun of powerlifters for being fat. Everyone has their own preference for their lifestyle and goals.




I was just trying to fule the fire and keep a good thread going.  

nothing wrong with being a big MOFO.

Also, aside from the super heavies powerlifters aren't fat.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 20, 2006)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> so what? Power lifters make fun of bodybuilders for being weak and BB's make fun of powerlifters for being fat. Everyone has their own preference for their lifestyle and goals.




Yes, but only the Superheavyweight PLers are fat, most of the other ones are pretty lean.  Although, there could be some athletic BBers out there in the smaller weight classes.  Something tells me Ronnie's 40yd sprint time is in minutes, not seconds.


----------



## shiznit2169 (Feb 20, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> I was just trying to fule the fire and keep a good thread going.
> 
> nothing wrong with being a big MOFO.
> 
> Also, aside from the super heavies powerlifters aren't fat.



we just need to call in johhhhny, john h., and duncans donuts and that will be one hell of a thread


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 20, 2006)

I say Johnnny be given a 1 week pass.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 20, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> I say Johnnny be given a 1 week pass.




I would love to see his contribution to the discussion.


----------



## shiznit2169 (Feb 20, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Yes, but only the Superheavyweight PLers are fat, most of the other ones are pretty lean.  Although, there could be some athletic BBers out there in the smaller weight classes.  Something tells me Ronnie's 40yd sprint time is in minutes, not seconds.



something also tells me that ronnie coleman is unbeatable when it comes to mr olympia


----------



## DOMS (Feb 20, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> I deem this thread unclosable.



Just like topolo's ass...


----------



## P-funk (Feb 20, 2006)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> something also tells me that ronnie coleman is unbeatable when it comes to mr olympia




subjective.


----------



## shiznit2169 (Feb 20, 2006)

p-funk, you mentioned that you train athletes? I remember a particular post a while back that you always had clients who were severly overweight or just normal people who simply wanted to lose weight or gain some strength. You went on a rant and got tired of those complainers and would prefer to train athletes with specific goals so have you made the transition yet or is it still the typical clients you always get?


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 20, 2006)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> something also tells me that ronnie coleman is unbeatable when it comes to mr olympia



I could beat him if I tried, I choose not to.  

That is one of teh major problems I have with BBing, it is virtually impossible to overthrow the current champion.  That and the subjectivity as P mentioned, the horrible production value of the Olympia on TV, no set guidelines. etc.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 20, 2006)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> p-funk, you mentioned that you train athletes? I remember a particular post a while back that you always had clients who were severly overweight or just normal people who simply wanted to lose weight or gain some strength. You went on a rant and got tired of those complainers and would prefer to train athletes with specific goals so have you made the transition yet or is it still the typical clients you always get?




I will answer this for him, he has decided to become a ballerina coach and only work with the male ones.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 20, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> I will answer this for him, he has decided to become a ballerina coach and only work with the male ones.




Bingo, dale nailed it.


No, I still train some animals and I have some people that are athletes....I just complain about the animals more because they are annoying.  But, the animals pay the bills sometimes.


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 20, 2006)

LOL, As I said you guys need a forum to flame. This is a training forum, get back  to the topic at least.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 20, 2006)

Ok, sounds good.  P-funk, stop whoring in this thread, some of us are trying to learn.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 20, 2006)

what was this thread about?

P-funk, can i take your ballerina course for beginners?


----------



## P-funk (Feb 20, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Ok, sounds good.  P-funk, stop whoring in this thread, some of us are trying to learn.




Sorry Dale....back to the learning....

The whole idea behind Dogg Shit training for optimal chest devolpment:

1) load the bar
2) bench as many reps as possible
3) when you can get anymore and you are about to rip your pec off the bone rack the weight.
4) rest 10sec
5) unrack the weight and specifically try to rip the pec from the bone over the next 2-4 reps.  If it still hasn't happend re-rack.
6) rest 10sec
7) try again


----------



## P-funk (Feb 20, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> what was this thread about?
> 
> P-funk, can i take your ballerina course for beginners?




why certainly.

Dale is there every monday with a Tutu.


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 20, 2006)

Really? To bad DC trainee's don't use flat bench to tear pecs...


----------



## P-funk (Feb 20, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> Really? To bad DC trainee's don't use flat bench to tear pecs...




decline bench press.  I should have specified.


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 20, 2006)

Who has torn a pec on decline bench press on DC training? j/w of course...


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> Who has torn a pec on decline bench press on DC training? j/w of course...


Who knows, it is impossible to know who is using this training and even more impossible to keep track of them and all their injuries.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 20, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> why certainly.
> 
> Dale is there every monday with a Tutu.


i don't have a tutu....maybe Dale will let me borrow his...


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 20, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Who knows, it is impossible to know who is using this training and even more impossibble to keep track of them and all their injuries.


Then your saying you have no proof at all that people have torn their pec doing decline bench press on DC's program, but they just do because you say they do/have?


----------



## P-funk (Feb 20, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> i don't have a tutu....maybe Dale will let me borrow his...



I wouldn't borrow Dale's Tutu.  He routinely gets durnk and wets it.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 20, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> Who has torn a pec on decline bench press on DC training? j/w of course...




I don't know.  Just making stuff up since this thread has gone to shit.

Wipe your face....some of his cum is on your nose.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 20, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> i don't have a tutu....maybe Dale will let me borrow his...



You don't need a tutu, but you have to have a penis and not want to use it in the proper way to be in P-funk's class.  I use mine on a daily basis so you can't use mine.


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 20, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> I don't know.  Just making stuff up since this thread has gone to shit.
> 
> Wipe your face....some of his cum is on your nose.


  I find it funny that I asked you one simple question regarding YOUR quote and you've already jumped on flamming me.


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> Then your saying you have no proof at all that people have torn their pec doing decline bench press on DC's program, but they just do because you say they do/have?


I have no proof that any person  was ever injured from any kind of training...do I  need to have some???? Or is it agreed on that some people have been injured somewhere from some kind of training??


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 20, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I have no proof that any person  was ever injured from any kind of training...do I  need to have some???? Or is it agreed on that some people have been injured somewhere from some kind of training??


No proof eh? Then really all I can go on about this is believing some guy on the net with no sources that has said this one thing


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> No proof eh? Then really all I can go on about this is believing some guy on the net with no sources that has said this one thing


You missed the point again son.......I have no proof that any person has ever been injured in their training....but thousands have..


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 20, 2006)

Some people like cucumbers better than pickles.


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 20, 2006)

I might have but when you type up a post like that its not hard to miss the point. You have no proof whatsoever at all that anyone has been injured from training? Google pec tears and you'll have proof got it? Now what proof do any of you have that anyone using DC's program has torn a pec on decline bench press? Or are you "Talking out of your ass"?


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

I never said DC training caused injuries.....I don't even know what it is. If it was sumerised in a paragraph or two I would be happy to read up on it.


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 20, 2006)

Then why in fucks name would you respond to a question regarding DC training if you know almost nothing about it?


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> Then why in fucks name would you respond to a question regarding DC training if you know almost nothing about it?


Because it is bullshit!!! I know people who used it....none of them use it anymore.


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 20, 2006)

And??? What is the relevance to a pec tear?


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

I didn't bring up anything about a pec tear....is this thread about pec tears???


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 20, 2006)

LOL, You quoted me when I was talking about pec tears..


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> LOL, You quoted me when I was talking about pec tears..


http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showpost.php?p=1272701&postcount=125
You need to read what I say before you fly off the handle son.


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 20, 2006)

I haven't 'flown off the handle' and I'm not your damn son.


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> I haven't 'flown off the handle' and I'm not your damn son.


Yes you did and yes you are.


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 20, 2006)




----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 20, 2006)

LOL, you obviously know almost nothing about me then.


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> LOL, you obviously know almost nothing about me then.


You are correct son, I abandoned your whore mother the day I found out I knocked her up.


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 20, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

>


Your going to get fat off of all that damn popcorn  I want to know who using DC's program has torn a pec on Decline bench press


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> Your going to get fat off of all that damn popcorn  I want to know who using DC's program has torn a pec on Decline bench press


*All these sexy guys did





*


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 20, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> Your going to get fat off of all that damn popcorn I want to know who using DC's program has torn a pec on Decline bench press


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 20, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> You are correct son, I abandoned your whore mother the day I found out I knocked her up.


Actually my father died from cancer last year.


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> Actually my father died from cancer last year.


How dare you!!!!!
How dare you say that I'm dead son.


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 20, 2006)

Mudge said:
			
		

> Is it not possible for two, or more, people to have similar training theories? I dont see why not.
> 
> Its like guitarists, I hear similar licks all the time from different bands in different generes. There are only so many original ideas out there to be discovered.
> 
> ...



I agree with you 110%..I was only throwing DOGCRAPP back some of his own medicine.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 20, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> I do know of one pro trainer over here--thats bodyfx
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You need reading skills. I didn't say an interview at P/M. I said over here. By some chance do you think right now your posting at P/M or I/M. 
Also how many sites have I been banned from. Lets see yours and P/M until March 1st for calling you out. Big deal a couple of sites that you have power at. You away and I won't rip on you. You seem to follow me from board to board once I left yours. If your looking to propose marriage to me, I decline. Looks like you don't have much of a fan club here Dante. I will again apologize to you as I made a mistake calling you egotistical. I meant an asshole.


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 20, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> Uh oh...I just remembered...I talked about how I use rest-pause training in my last Iron Man magazine article on advanced P/RR/S training. Looks like we are going to have another new thread.........................



Alrighty then...GO-PRO must have copied IRON MANS' rest-pause technique.I want credit for it!!!


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 20, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> Actually my father died from cancer last year.


Hey lad you must like getting ripped on. Stay here and we will accomadate you. 

I want to know if you dream about Dante. Which one of you is the pitcher and which one is the catcher. Give me the details.


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 20, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> I want to know if you dream about Dante. Which one of you is the pitcher and which one is the catcher. Give me the details.


I only dream about you, and that whole pitching catching, is only for me& you got it big boi?


----------



## musclepump (Feb 20, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> I am a trainer.
> 
> Dale is a trainer.
> 
> ...


 
I'm a trainer. I train bodybuilders, a sparse few powerlifters, and... well, a few Olympic swimmers who do wear Speedo's, but no posing oil


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 20, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> LOLOL-here is my prior statement to you in this thread *"There are things as stated previously(between him and I) that he knows I dont understand or agree with, maybe with time we will iron them out....in fact that would make me much happier"*......but no problem if you want to take the low road in all this Im fine with that. Your the ultimate backtracker.  Well my rest pause theories are actually in print in the early 90's thru Hardcore Muscle so you can go and say "well I invented pop tarts" for all I care, it just follows up your reputation as a con/bullshit artist. Its so convenient when people come around with "well I was doing that 5, 10, 15 years ago" *after the fact*. How convenient it is that rest pause training has always been (to everyone) a set of 6 singles (ala mentzer), UNIVERSALLY. Yet you for some weird unexplained reason you came up with rest pausing in the 11-15 range with 3 failure points like myself back in the 80's--LOL. Maybe you actually dont borrow from others because Ive always have made it a point to cite others in articles (that Ive borrowed from), yet you say you came up with it all yourself (you and only you)
> a)you've said you train ronnie coleman to many people and got your ass handed to you there as a bullshitter. You've said you train top pros and amateurs, yet for some reason its all hush hush top secret (again absolutely crap)
> b)you copy other peoples material continually (Iron Addicts, Phils, Mine, and Arthur L Rea) and call it your own, and you know what, Im fine with that but when you blatantly copy something verbatim and then turn around and say its all your own idea and you never read the guy before--you kind of look bad in alot of peoples eyes.
> c)a person well known on the boards pmed you something about a outline he did recently, supplement wise. You took that outline and answered someone elses question on a board verbatim with it and didnt even give the guy who PMed you credit. How absolutely pathetic is that?
> ...



1.This is complete B.S. For arguments sake lets say I did copy everyones material and made a BETTER routine than all the rest..What's wrong with that?  But we both know it's just not so..Your just mad because theres been a number of people such as TOM who quit using your program and switched over to mine FREE OF CHARGE and have made better progress. For the record I did not copy your work!!!!!! 

2. In regards to Mr.Biceps..Theres only about 50 different Mr and Mrs. Biceps on the Net. For the record: I AM NOT MR.BICEPS 

3. For the record: I am not training Ronnie Coleman but that does not mean I never helped train him in the past.BIG A took IT upon himself to tell others I was training Ronnie at the current time..  

4. For the record: I am a personal trainer for a living and do have 22 inch arms!!! 

5. For the record: Only those in whom I trust have my true identity and I trust no one affiliated with your little click. 

6. You and I both know when a man- (BIG A) is put in jail for FRAUD he is usually guilty, "not set up" as BIG A claims he was. Is it NOT also possible he was also quilty of making fraudelant claims against me because I was hurting Phil Hernons and his Personal Training business??? Below is a post you should read if you want to find out what kind of liar BIG A truly is!!!! DC if your such a saint why didnt you call his bluff when he claimed to be set up as the reason for him doing hard time?? Why??   

Originally posted by Macdaddy 
I think Big A can relate to those prices!!!  (I'm really crying inside!!!)  

You know, here you have something that is called a Health Care Card. You get one when you earn less than $30,000 a year. I had one when I was younger. Among many of the benefits it entitles you, one of them is that it allows you to buy all prescription drugs for A$3.20 (US$1.60). So one box of Sustanon (3amps) used to cost me US$1.60  And that is the Organon stuff on prescription, straight from the pharmacy. Because you see, the goverment would consider me poor and they would pick up the bill for my gear LOL


There's BIG A's lack of integrity right there!!!  



7. Your judging my moral character.  Arent you the man who just took GOD'S name in vain when replying to Tom??


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> LOLOL-here is my prior statement to you in this thread *"There are things as stated previously(between him and I) that he knows I dont understand or agree with, maybe with time we will iron them out....in fact that would make me much happier"*......but no problem if you want to take the low road in all this Im fine with that. Your the ultimate backtracker.  Well my rest pause theories are actually in print in the early 90's thru Hardcore Muscle so you can go and say "well I invented pop tarts" for all I care, it just follows up your reputation as a con/bullshit artist. Its so convenient when people come around with "well I was doing that 5, 10, 15 years ago" *after the fact*. How convenient it is that rest pause training has always been (to everyone) a set of 6 singles (ala mentzer), UNIVERSALLY. Yet you for some weird unexplained reason you came up with rest pausing in the 11-15 range with 3 failure points like myself back in the 80's--LOL. Maybe you actually dont borrow from others because Ive always have made it a point to cite others in articles (that Ive borrowed from), yet you say you came up with it all yourself (you and only you)
> a)you've said you train ronnie coleman to many people and got your ass handed to you there as a bullshitter. You've said you train top pros and amateurs, yet for some reason its all hush hush top secret (again absolutely crap)
> b)you copy other peoples material continually (Iron Addicts, Phils, Mine, and Arthur L Rea) and call it your own, and you know what, Im fine with that but when you blatantly copy something verbatim and then turn around and say its all your own idea and you never read the guy before--you kind of look bad in alot of peoples eyes.
> c)a person well known on the boards pmed you something about a outline he did recently, supplement wise. You took that outline and answered someone elses question on a board verbatim with it and didnt even give the guy who PMed you credit. How absolutely pathetic is that?
> ...


100% Ghey


----------



## P-funk (Feb 20, 2006)

musclepump said:
			
		

> I'm a trainer. I train bodybuilders, a sparse few powerlifters, and... well, a few Olympic swimmers who do wear Speedo's, but no posing oil



ah....the oil will make the side of the pool slippery......walk don't run!!


----------



## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 20, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> 1.This is complete B.S. For arguments sake lets say I did copy everyones material and made a BETTER routine than all the rest..What's wrong with that?  But we both know it's just not so..Your just mad because theres been a number of people such as TOM who quit using your program and switched over to mine FREE OF CHARGE and have made better progress. For the record I did not copy your work!!!!!!




uhhhh I never trained tougholdman, he used to beg me in my emails to take him on free of charge which I refused to do. I wouldnt train him for free or for any money in the world. If he denies this, there is a post on intensemuscle from him saying just the same thing asking me to take him on and train him as a challenge 



> 2. In regards to Mr.Biceps..Theres only about 50 different Mr and Mrs. Biceps on the Net. For the record: I AM NOT MR.BICEPS
> 
> 3. For the record: I am not training Ronnie Coleman but that does not mean I never helped train him in the past.BIG A took upon himself to tell others I was training Ronnie at the current time..



Well I know of the 2 people who have been helping him over the last 12 years or so. So lets ask Ronnie himself--he should have no problem remembering you. I have his email address. Give me some clues to what I can say to him to have him remember you. (this is where you backtrack and say something to the effect "oh my identity-I train top pros and ams but remember this Dante Its code one top secret, project hush hush". what did you do send him a letter once back in 92? Does that count?



> 4. For the record: I am a personal trainer for a living and do have 22 inch arms!!!
> 
> 5. For the record: Only those in whom I trust have my true identity and I trust no one affiliated with your little click.



darn it you got me by 1/2 inch http://chadnicholls.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23435&page=2&pp=20&styleid=1
oh wait I actually write checks that I prove my ass can cash and you just tell people you do 



> 6. You and I both know when a man- (BIG A) is put in jail for FRAUD he is usually guilty, "not set up" as BIG A claims he was. Is it NOT also possible he was also quilty of making fraudelant claims against me because I was hurting Phil Hernons and his Personal Training business??? Below is a post you should read if you want to find out what kind of liar BIG A truly is!!!!If your such a saint why didnt you call his bluff when he climed to be set up??
> 
> Originally posted by Macdaddy
> I think Big A can relate to those prices!!! (I'm really crying inside!!!)
> ...



I really wish I knew what you were talking about in this paragraph but I seem to be out of the loop on this. I have no idea what all the above is about. My contact with Big A over the last 4 years has been one PM with each of us saying about 8 words each in a sentence 





> 7. Your judging my moral character.  Arent you the man who just took GOD'S name in vain when replying to Tom??



yea obviously I deserve the death penalty for that cardinal sin


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> uhhhh I never trained tougholdman, he used to beg me in my emails to take him on free of charge which I refused to do. I wouldnt train him for free or for any money in the world. If he denies this, there is a post on intensemuscle from him saying just the same thing asking me to take him on and train him as a challenge
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Again, very Gay


----------



## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 20, 2006)

I can easily see how you got your 30 thousand posts foremanrules


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> I can easily see how you got your 30 thousand posts foremanrules


Don't be a hater son 

I think it best you stick to copying workout programs and then taking credit for them......I dub you the "New Joe Weider."


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 20, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> I can easily see how you got your 30 thousand posts foremanrules




Puhlease, most of those 30,000 didn't have half the substance that those last 2 did.


----------



## GFR (Feb 20, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Puhlease, most of those 30,000 didn't have half the substance that those last 2 did.


True story


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 20, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> uhhhh I never trained tougholdman, he used to beg me in my emails to take him on free of charge which I refused to do. I wouldnt train him for free or for any money in the world. If he denies this, there is a post on intensemuscle from him saying just the same thing asking me to take him on and train him as a challenge
> 
> 
> 
> ...





1. Pretty lame when you wont help train an (Old Man)-"TOM" for free even when he begs, but you write these Big Long Articles on how everyone should being doing good deeds such as helping (Old Women) cross the street.LOL..GIVE ME A BREAK!!! Your just trying to make yourself look good in the eyes of others. Say what you will about me, but I helped Tom out for free and never asked for a nickel. What's my character like compared to yours??? THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING.. 

2. I  have given Ronnie training advise back before he got stupid big and I never trained him on a regular basis. I never charged him a cent if that's what you want to believe or maybe I did, "you'll never know" ..Hey have Ronnie PM me over here at IM and I will tell him who I really am. 

3. I never said your arms where small now did I??  You where the one who called B.S. on mine being 22 inches just like everthing else I seem to do.You've have become my biggest HATER. How does that make you feel? 

4. Big A does not live in the states. Big A claims to be wealthy yet according to that post he tells the government he is a poor man and makes under $30,000 so he can get free gear. Does that make it a bit clearer now.


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 20, 2006)

BTW Why was 'The Ultimate DC Info' thread deleted?


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 20, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> uhhhh I never trained tougholdman, he used to beg me in my emails to take him on free of charge which I refused to do. I wouldnt train him for free or for any money in the world. If he denies this, there is a post on intensemuscle from him saying just the same thing asking me to take him on and train him as a challenge


Yes I deny that. I ask you via cyber-rights if you give discounts to seniors cause you claim to give them to students. Also it wan't in regards to the training but the diet. It's the fucking diet that I can't seem to get right, not the training. Read it again asshole and then copy it and paste it here. But then again being the super mod over there you can edit it to say anything you want right. Would you like to post where I'm a moderator at. I can re-edit anything you say and change the words to say anything I want. Get it from the email. You can't change that and post it here. Then everyone will see what a liar you are.  You can't win a battle here with me dante as you have no more power then I do. So fuck you.

By the way you claim Iron Man's arm is only 1/4" bigger then yours. Remember you out weigh him by over 60 lbs or more. He only weighs close to 230 lbs. If he weighed 300 lbs his arms would be 24-25". So your not even close to him. 

You want to know why I'm mad. You went around telling everyone that i have 16" arms. Why did you do that, who knows. Well there not as big as yours, but they are 19" and remember I'm an old man who weighs 245 lbs. If I weighed 300 lbs and they will be close to yours. Now if you would like to personally measure them, then I'll meet you in San Diego and you can do that.  

Tough


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 20, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> BTW Why was 'The Ultimate DC Info' thread deleted?



Maybe because he claims to be tired of training others yet wants to bully those who out do him. Or maybe its because we won't worship him as being "THE MAN, THE END ALL, THE GURU..Sounds like he needs to get out of it altogether if he can't take the heat...


----------



## P-funk (Feb 20, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> I find it funny that I asked you one simple question regarding YOUR quote and you've already jumped on flamming me.




lol, if you read any of my posts in this thread it is all a joke.  I have no clue about Doggshit's program.  I skimmed it maybe once.  The thread has gone to shit so I am just fucking around now.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 20, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> BTW Why was 'The Ultimate DC Info' thread deleted?


Why would we need three threads on Dante the Dick. That's probably why and Dante the dick asked them to be removed. So they removed two and left this one so we could all fuck with the two of you. 

Tough


----------



## musclepump (Feb 20, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> ah....the oil will make the side of the pool slippery......walk don't run!!



Don't worry, I train them all in separate locations so the bodybuilders posing oils don't mix with the slick deck surfaces


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 20, 2006)

Hey Dante. Where you at? I just wanted to tell you this.

*Some people live life in the fast lane - I live in oncoming traffic*


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 20, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> darn it you got me by 1/2 inch http://chadnicholls.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23435&page=2&pp=20&styleid=1


nice pipes.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 20, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> nice pipes.




can't view them.  it says you need to log into the site.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 20, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> can't view them.  it says you need to log into the site.


you could always register .


----------



## P-funk (Feb 20, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> you could always register .




i refuse to register to another board.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 20, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> i refuse to register to another board.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 20, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> i refuse to register to another board.



I am the same way.


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 20, 2006)

i created the rest/pause training method back in the sixties.  either pay me in supplements, or your (DoggCrapp & IRONMAN) asses will be both be sued.


----------



## Boost777 (Feb 20, 2006)

Does anyone else draw the analogy of Globo-gym vs Average Joes?  Globo-gym being this douche, and IM forumee's being Average Joe's?


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 20, 2006)

is this Dante character really being that big of an assclown?  by breezing through these ten pages, it seems almost like a grade school altercation where one or two people are being bullied by the masses.

I haven't and won't pick sides, but personally, I tend to take training, dieting, and supplementing tips from people like p-funk, duncan donuts, cowpimp etc. who can consistently spell common english words properly, and know what a 'complete sentence' is.

Also, I will no longer use the rest/pause method of training as an integral part of my regimen knowing that I am a more intelligent person at 18 years into my life than these two idiots are in the latter stages of life.

In ending, I suggest this be solved with a classic game of scrabble.  Dante, IRONMAN, go to games.com and meet eachother in the Spelling Bee lobby, pronto.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 20, 2006)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> is this Dante character really being that big of an assclown?




I didn't think he was being a douche at all.


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 20, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> I didn't think he was being a douche at all.



That makes two of us.


----------



## CowPimp (Feb 20, 2006)

God you people are a bunch of faggots.  

"Oh no, don't post my training program that's already all over the Internet."  

"Well you stole it from me anyway!"  

"Well I like to take it up the asshole from two cocks at the same time without lube." 

"Great, where do I sign up?!"


----------



## musclepump (Feb 20, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> God you people are a bunch of faggots.
> 
> "Oh no, don't post my training program that's already all over the Internet."
> 
> ...



That was more than slightly disturbing.


----------



## WantItBad (Feb 20, 2006)

I have an idea....not a good one but an idea


----------



## camarosuper6 (Feb 21, 2006)

wow.

I really wish I were here for this.

:\


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Feb 21, 2006)

Man, whatever happened to fair use?

This thread is hilarious...whatever method you use, just adjust the variables, no such thing as one size fits all.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 21, 2006)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> Man, whatever happened to fair use?
> 
> This thread is hilarious...whatever method you use, just adjust the variables, no such thing as one size fits all.




yea, you missed a really great thread.  Doggshit rivals Johnnny on the level of stupidity.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 21, 2006)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> is this Dante character really being that big of an assclown?


people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. i can think of a couple bigger _assclownes_ in this thread than Dante, that's for damn sure.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 21, 2006)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> is this Dante character really being that big of an assclown? by breezing through these ten pages, it seems almost like a grade school altercation where one or two people are being bullied by the masses.
> 
> I haven't and won't pick sides, but personally, I tend to take training, dieting, and supplementing tips from people like p-funk, duncan donuts, cowpimp etc. who can consistently spell common english words properly, and know what a 'complete sentence' is.
> 
> ...


If you only knew what happened on another site, your way of thinking would change. All you see is this thread.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 21, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> If you only knew what happened on another site, your way of thinking would change. All you see is this thread.


Let. It. Go.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 21, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. i can think of a couple bigger _assclownes_ in this thread than Dante, that's for damn sure.



me me....pick me!!


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 21, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> me me....pick me!!


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 21, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> Let. It. Go.


Hell no, like Dale said unclosable thread. Stir, stir, stir.

Move it to open chat so we can really go crazy


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 21, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Hell no, like Dale said unclosable thread. Stir, stir, stir.
> 
> Move it to open chat so we can really go crazy


you do realize that you're an adult, no?


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 21, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> you do realize that you're an adult, no?


No I didn't glad you pointed that out for me.  If this thread is bugging you so much, why are you posting in it as often as you are.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 21, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> i don't have a tutu....maybe Dale will let me borrow his...


You do reallize that your an adult don't you?


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 21, 2006)

i was joking in the said quote and you're well aware of that. all you've done is flame, name call and badger. i just don't get it and am trying to better understand.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 21, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> i was joking in the said quote and you're well aware of that. all you've done is flame, name call and badger. i just don't get it and am trying to better understand.


Funny joke as I didn't see a smiley after it. 

Listen the Dante has followed me everywhere. I'm no longer on his turf, but he has found mine where I can fight back. Now if you don't understand that, then I'm sorry as it's not meant to harm anyone else but him.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 21, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> If you only knew what happened on another site, your way of thinking would change. All you see is this thread.




I don't let other people's opinion of a person be a basis for mine, especially on the internet where hot young girls are fat old men and everybody benches 400.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 21, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> name call and badger.




http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 21, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/


Now that was a good one.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 21, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/


exactly...LOL


----------



## Triple Threat (Feb 21, 2006)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> whatever method you use, just adjust the variables, no such thing as one size fits all.



This could very well be the most intelligent thing posted in this thread.


----------



## GFR (Feb 21, 2006)

Triple Threat said:
			
		

> This could very well be the most intelligent thing posted in this thread.


Did I miss something???? were their  intelligent comments made here


----------



## gopro (Feb 21, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> Alrighty then...GO-PRO must have copied IRON MANS' rest-pause technique.I want credit for it!!!



From now on, all the credit shall be yours my friend....


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 21, 2006)

*Final Note:*

I'm in the process of putting up some "LEGIT" steroid cycles in my "Anabolic Section" used by real professional bodybuilders and I really don't have the time to be involved in all this DRAMA but I was not going to sit back and let DOGCRAPP tell lies on me. 

I would just like everyone on this board to know that I've never been to DOGCRAPPS home-"DOGPOUND" to start trouble with him and have never put anyone else up to doing so as he MIGHT have  done with RippedNyLifter. 

 I've watched the negative post fly after DC and I argued back and forth. I'm afraid that too much of a thing like this could turn others off and my intention are to bring new members to our site. IronMagazine is my home now and I'm convinced it's the best bodybuilding board on the net. Simply put, we have a great group of guys here that seem to be very serious about pumping iron. 

 There was a whole lot of people that looked at DOGCCRAPP as being a "Cry Baby" after his numerous post in my long thread over at Pro Muscle. The last thing I want to do is give off that kind of energy around here. We at IronMagazine need to "protect" OUR board whenever DC's croneys come at us. My plans are to stay conscious of the fact that he and his boys are here to tear me and this board down one step at a time. ToughOldMan and many others realize this fact. DC has seen his client traffic drop and is wondering where they are going, that darn IRON MAN he cried.......


----------



## CowPimp (Feb 21, 2006)

You guys are fucking paranoid.  NYLifter didn't really say anything derogatory toward Ironman.  However, Dante was bashed within the first couple pages of this thread by Ironman.  I really don't think NYLifter came here to start shit...


----------



## GFR (Feb 21, 2006)

Bottom line, if any of you try to take EXNIHILONIHIFIT HYPERTROPHY and pass it off as your ideas I will hunt you down and and make you do 100 bowflex workouts as your punishment.


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 21, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> You guys are fucking paranoid. NYLifter didn't really say anything derogatory toward Ironman. However, Dante was bashed within the first couple pages of this thread by Ironman. I really don't think NYLifter came here to start shit...


I agree, he came here in peace. Poor guy, he doesn't know what hit him.


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 21, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> have never put anyone else up to doing so as he has obviously done with RippedNyLifter.


 
Hmmmm...I See....


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 21, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> *Move it to open chat* so we can really go crazy


 
No, no, no. This junk stays here, this is below us at Open chat. You never see this stuff over there.


----------



## GFR (Feb 21, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> I agree, he came here in peace. Poor guy, he doesn't know what hit him.


Bull shit......he was bashing the mods in his 4th or 5th post, the little bitch had a bad attitude from the get go.


Edit: more like his 15th post,,,

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showpost.php?p=1270334&postcount=2


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 21, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Bull shit......he was bashing the mods in his 4th or 5th post, the little bitch had a bad attitude from the get go.


 
In this thread or the deleted thread? I may be wrong, I was always a bad judge of character....that may explain why I like you.


----------



## GFR (Feb 21, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> In this thread or the deleted thread? I may be wrong, *I was always a bad judge of character....that may explain why I like you*.


Link added in the post above.....



Oh and.....How dare you!!!


----------



## god hand (Feb 21, 2006)




----------



## maniclion (Feb 21, 2006)

So whats the secret, you do a bunch of pushup's over a pile of dog crap or what, why so secretive?


----------



## JerseyDevil (Feb 21, 2006)

THIS thread is a true IM Hall of Famer, and on the first ballot.

The entire controversy seems to be about rest/pause implementation.  But what I want to know is who exactly 'invented' it.  It wasn't Ironman, Doggcrapp or even Mentzer.  The earliest use of it that I recall was from powerlifting great Pat Casey on his way to a then world record bench of 600 lbs.... in the mid 60s.

So ok, these guys tweak it and consider themselves training geniuses.  Big fucking deal.  The person who actually came up with the idea probably didn't get any credit, and didn't really care.


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 21, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> I don't let other people's opinion of a person be a basis for mine, especially on the internet where hot young girls are fat old men and everybody benches 400.



Yes sir.

I don't trust the both of them as far as i can throw them.


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 21, 2006)

JerseyDevil said:
			
		

> THIS thread is a true IM Hall of Famer, and on the first ballot.
> 
> The entire controversy seems to be about rest/pause implementation. But what I want to know is who exactly 'invented' it. It wasn't Ironman, Doggcrapp or even Mentzer. The earliest use of it that I recall was from powerlifting great Pat Casey on his way to a then world record bench of 600 lbs.... in the mid 60s.
> 
> So ok, these guys tweak it and consider themselves training geniuses. Big fucking deal. The person who actually came up with the idea probably didn't get any credit, and didn't really care.


 
Get him!!


----------



## JerseyDevil (Feb 21, 2006)




----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 21, 2006)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> Yes sir.
> 
> I don't trust the both of them as far as i can throw them.



No can do, IRON MAN.  This will not be edited or erased regardless of how 'hot of water' i will be in.  

Tell me where it says under the rules that I have to agree with everything moderators say or else i'll be banned.

Not to mention, since when did you become a moderator?  I've been an IM member for close to two years, you've been here, how long?  a week or two?  Give me a break, pal.


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 21, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> I really don't think NYLifter came here to start shit...


  True Dat...




			
				ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Bull shit......he was bashing the mods in his 4th or 5th post, the little bitch had a bad attitude from the get go.


I hardly consider that 'bashing'


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 21, 2006)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> No can do, IRON MAN.  This will not be edited or erased regardless of how 'hot of water' i will be in.
> 
> Tell me where it says under the rules that I have to agree with everything moderators say or else i'll be banned.
> 
> Not to mention, since when did you become a moderator?  I've been an IM member for close to two years, you've been here, how long?  a week or two?  Give me a break, pal.



I realize your just a young kid and all but one day you might need my help. Stay cool.


----------



## GFR (Feb 21, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> True Dat...
> 
> 
> 
> I hardly consider that 'bashing'


Bitching at the mods for not answering you fast enough is rude and tactless.


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 21, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Bitching at the mods for not answering you fast enough is rude and tactless.



Foreman there's a question you to need answer in my FAQ section.


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 21, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> I realize your just a young kid and all but one day you might need my help. Stay cool.



I'm staying cool, and right now I don't need help.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Feb 22, 2006)

I'll help him.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Feb 22, 2006)

Here's my training advice: listen to everything Dale Mabry and P-Funk say.

Repeat.



That is, everything they say except regarding pliometrics... 


just kidding.


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 22, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Bitching at the mods for not answering you fast enough is rude and tactless.


I wasn't 'bitching' either.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 22, 2006)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> Yes sir.
> 
> I don't trust the both of them as far as i can throw them.


Well another 17 yr old who knows everything. That's ok Lad when your 20 and still going nowhere, then we'll see. 

Just like a teen to get into things he's knows nothing the fuck about.


----------



## GFR (Feb 22, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> I wasn't 'bitching' either.


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 22, 2006)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> I'll help him.



Correct-amundo.


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 22, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Well another 17 yr old who knows everything. That's ok Lad when your 20 and still going nowhere, then we'll see.
> 
> Just like a teen to get into things he's knows nothing the fuck about.



I never said, implied, etc. that i knew 'everything.'  I'm still learning each and every day, as we all are, including yourself.

When I'm 20 and going nowhere?  Well considering I'm not 20 yet, and I've improved my physique, strength, and athletic performance, not only am I going somewhere, but I have gone somewhere with my training.

Youre right, I do know nothing about your feud.  Infact, I made that very clear throughout my posts.  As I've said a few times now, I haven't and won't pick sides on this debacle, but I do know who I will and will not continue to go to for information in the future.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 22, 2006)

this thread makes me want to stick something sharp in my eye.


----------



## GFR (Feb 22, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> Foreman there's a question you to need answer in my FAQ section.


Thanks IronMan, I just read it.


----------



## Triple Threat (Feb 22, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> this thread makes me want to stick something sharp in my eye.


----------



## Alaric (Feb 22, 2006)

pfft....I've got something sharp, but I wouldn't want to be sticking it in your eye.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 22, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> this thread makes me want to stick something sharp in my eye.


Stop by my house for a game of darts. You can be the dart board


----------



## Doublebase (Feb 22, 2006)

Alaric said:
			
		

> pfft....I've got something sharp, but I wouldn't want to be sticking it in your eye.



what do you got?


----------



## TRYN2 (Feb 22, 2006)

What is this thread about ?


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 22, 2006)

TRYN2 said:
			
		

> What is this thread about ?


 
*REVIEW: ???DOGGCRAPP MOUNTAIN??? A TRAGIC LOVE STORY BETWEEN TWO MEN AND TRAINING THEORIES'*






*By Mino Lee*
The year???s most beautiful and heartbreaking thread is also the most misunderstood. Dante and Ironman star in ???DoggCrapp Mountain???  with Tough and RippedNYLifter in supporting roles. It starts out as best friends whose marriages and lives are destroyed because Foreamn labeled them as ???homosexuals??? for spending time together fishing following a brief sexual encounter when they were young. Sadly, many posters have made the same error as this threads supporting characters in calling it a ???gay??? thread. But if giving your friend a ???hand job??? and having ???anal sex??? on a cold night in the woods makes you ???gay,??? then who among us can honestly claim to be straight?


----------



## P-funk (Feb 22, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> *REVIEW: ???DOGGCRAPP MOUNTAIN??? A TRAGIC LOVE STORY BETWEEN TWO MEN AND TRAINING THEORIES'*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




     classic.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 22, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> *REVIEW: ???DOGGCRAPP MOUNTAIN??? A TRAGIC LOVE STORY BETWEEN TWO MEN AND TRAINING THEORIES'*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 22, 2006)

Wow, this thread still exists...Good times.

So to catch everyone up to speed, I don't know what is going on, but I do know that Dogg Crapp and Iron Man are sworn enemies, like vinegar and water.  Wait, I mean oil and water, vinegar and water is douche.  Meh, tomato, toemato.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 22, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Wow, this thread still exists...Good times.
> 
> So to catch everyone up to speed, I don't know what is going on, but I do know that Dogg Crapp and Iron Man are sworn enemies, like vinegar and water.  *Wait, I mean oil and water, vinegar and water is douche.*  Meh, tomato, toemato.





			
				The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



^^^ x2


----------



## CowPimp (Feb 22, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> *REVIEW: ???DOGGCRAPP MOUNTAIN??? A TRAGIC LOVE STORY BETWEEN TWO MEN AND TRAINING THEORIES'*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Leave it to Mino.  Hahahaha!


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 22, 2006)

*Hilarious!!!!!*



			
				min0 lee said:
			
		

> *REVIEW: ???DOGGCRAPP MOUNTAIN??? A TRAGIC LOVE STORY BETWEEN TWO MEN AND TRAINING THEORIES'*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



NOW THAT MADE MY DAY..


----------



## JerseyDevil (Feb 23, 2006)

Awesome end to a truly meaningful thread.

I'm wiping a tear from my eye..... sniff, sniff


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 23, 2006)

This thread will never end.


----------



## gopro (Feb 23, 2006)

Oh my Lord is this STILL going on?


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 24, 2006)

I don't think it ever stopped, but its slowely dying down


----------



## CowPimp (Feb 24, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP AND IRONMAN ARE BOTH FRAUDS.  NEITHER OF THEIR ROUTINES WORK, AND THEY BOTH TRIED TO COPY OFF ME ANYWAY.  I AM THE ORIGINAL ELITE ONLINE TRAINER.

Okay, the thread continues...


----------



## fletcher6490 (Feb 24, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> DOGGCRAPP AND IRONMAN ARE BOTH FRAUDS.  NEITHER OF THEIR ROUTINES WORK, AND THEY BOTH TRIED TO COPY OFF ME ANYWAY.  I AM THE ORIGINAL ELITE ONLINE TRAINER.
> 
> Okay, the thread continues...



Yes you are.


----------



## MyK (Feb 24, 2006)

to see a real training program, go here! 

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=60976


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 24, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> DOGGCRAPP AND IRONMAN ARE BOTH FRAUDS.  NEITHER OF THEIR ROUTINES WORK, AND THEY BOTH TRIED TO COPY OFF ME ANYWAY.  I AM THE ORIGINAL ELITE ONLINE TRAINER.
> 
> Okay, the thread continues...



I agree with this statement.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 24, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> Dante did a pretty good job of getting David Henry into shape...he just placed second at the IRON MAN, ironically enough!


 
I just finished reading next months Flex Mag. It has an article in there by Dave Henry. Claims to be using  rest / Pause training for the last 1.5 yrs. Now it's identical to DC's training. Thing here is I didn't see him give any credit to Dante in the magazine and Dante's not all over his ass looking for credit. Wonder why.


----------



## gopro (Feb 25, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> I just finished reading next months Flex Mag. It has an article in there by Dave Henry. Claims to be using  rest / Pause training for the last 1.5 yrs. Now it's identical to DC's training. Thing here is I didn't see him give any credit to Dante in the magazine and Dante's not all over his ass looking for credit. Wonder why.



David did an interview with Muscular Development and spoke of Dante's training methodology and of him being his trainer. Dante has in fact been working with Henry for the last couple of years.


----------



## DanOz (Feb 25, 2006)

Hey all! 
First timer poster from Down Under, having a good laugh at this topic. A comment if I may. I don't want to get into any of the politics, I want to talk purely from the training results point of view. 

I trained once per week per body part for about 6 years. I read some of the available info on doggcrapps and thought it may be worthwhile trying. The problem was that most material had been removed, so I was left with the basics of the program, so maybe that's where it went wrong. I emailed Dante but can't afford the money to be trained on line so to speak, so I tried to do what I could with the small knowledge I had gained about the program. 

I have been doing it for about 6 months and have not got great results, probably due to not knowing everything. The theory is good - higher frequency balanced with lower volume, rest / pause, static holds, extreme stretching etc 

But maybe some people respond better to higher volume, lower frequency? I am 32, so maybe I am better suited to longer periods of recovery? I love training more frequently, but am thinking maybe I should go back to once per week. Any thoughts on the effectiveness of this training style?


----------



## P-funk (Feb 25, 2006)

DanOz said:
			
		

> I love training more frequently, but am thinking maybe I should go back to once per week. Any thoughts on the effectiveness of this training style?



training 101


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 25, 2006)

DanOz said:
			
		

> Hey all!
> First timer poster from Down Under, having a good laugh at this topic. A comment if I may. I don't want to get into any of the politics, I want to talk purely from the training results point of view.
> 
> I trained once per week per body part for about 6 years. I read some of the available info on doggcrapps and thought it may be worthwhile trying. The problem was that most material had been removed, so I was left with the basics of the program, so maybe that's where it went wrong. I emailed Dante but can't afford the money to be trained on line so to speak, so I tried to do what I could with the small knowledge I had gained about the program.
> ...


Try this, I think you'll be happy

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=68


----------



## DanOz (Feb 26, 2006)

Thanks guys. I take it both of you are in favour of lower volume, higher frequency training. As I said, I love being able to train more, but the results were less than impressive with the 1st attempt. Have others also had results slow down with more frequent training? Will think on it before choosing the next program.


----------



## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 26, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> I just finished reading next months Flex Mag. It has an article in there by Dave Henry. Claims to be using  rest / Pause training for the last 1.5 yrs. Now it's identical to DC's training. Thing here is I didn't see him give any credit to Dante in the magazine and Dante's not all over his ass looking for credit. Wonder why.



Because of your undying efforts of lying your ass off about me Im going to bottom line if for everyone over here

Ironman is Mr.biceps

Do the research yourself. Mr.biceps was banned from multiple sites a short while ago ...including Iron Addicts and many others. As recently as last year this guy was asking NEWBIE questions on various bodybuilding sites online. And if you dont believe it--go to google and put in Mr.biceps (with a period in between the r and b) and read his posts on anabolic review (click on his name at that site and read all his posts). example: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=59585
 If that interests you do the same thing at professionalmuscle and read all his posts. example http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?p=84451#post84451 (theres a slew of them in there) In various posts there he writes how he has read Phil Hernon extensively as well as L arthur Rea, myself and I believe Iron addict. So the guy gets in a big fight with Vander (post deleted also in the last couple days for some reason) who just lays into him and blasts him and Mr.biceps gets banned from pro muscle

Mr.biceps goes off and reads Rea's, Iron Addicts, myself, and alot of Phil Hernon's articles and reinvents himself as Ironman. This guy plays such a good scam that he ends up training Vander (the very same guy Vander told to go fuck himself previously with a different screen name). OF COURSE HIS METHODS WILL WORK--ITS BEEN PROVEN TO WORK ALREADY BY THE ABOVE STATED PEOPLE--Ironman just plucked and chose what he wanted from the above peoples methods and *told everyone he made it all up himself*.

*****sidenote--while writing this post i noticed someone has been going to other boards deleting ironmans/mr.biceps past posts and pics for damage control....too late, people on pro muscle saw it all already*.

After I presented to him that he is the aforementioned newbie questionasking Mr biceps, he vehemently denies it. A simple search revealed 

 1)they both are fanatical christians
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9099&page=4&pp=20
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15248&page=2(i just noticed that since I showed the moderators on intensemuscle the second thread above 2-3 days ago that Ironman has gone back and deleted his posts on this thread on his christian rant--LOL)
2)they both have a son the same age
3)both claim same size arm
4)both from the same state
5)both are the same age
6)same writing style
7)same love for 12-15 degree incline decline presses 
8)both training for the same number of years
9)his picture is on the 2005 mepps-twister fishing catalog

http://www.mmipowertraining.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1533

10) and lastly that their IP addresses match (just like yours do when you post at intensemuscle under different screen names tougholdman)
 CASE CLOSED END OF STORY

You know what, I will state it clearly here. I have no problem at all with someone creating a training business for themselves, more power to you, go for it. But I have a huge problem when someone steals what he wants from my methods (11-15rep restpausing etc), Phil Hernons, Iron Addicts and Rea's drug articles and calls it his own (and says he never read this stuff, that he has been doing this from the 80's). I also have a huge problem with someone claiming to train Ronnie Coleman and many other pros and amateur bodybuilders and it turns out in every instance to be all bullshit. How idiotic do you have to be to say you train the Mr Olympia and not think your going to be checked on it. 
    Beyond that he and his henchman Tougholdman (who is slowly starting to realize that he looks really bad here after all his ranting and raving and is willing to go under 50 different screen names to protect his guy) soundly deny that he is the prior Mr.biceps (ALREADY PROVEN WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT). The saddest part in all of this is people dont realize what this is all about---ITS ABOUT MONEY. His big selling point is he is doing it all for free and yes he is currently but its for the sole purpose of in the future getting paid to train people. (Seriously how whacked do you have to be to talk about yourself in the 3rd person as he did on this post on bodybuilding.com)
01-10-2006, 01:37 AM    #5  
MR.BICEPS 
Registered User 

Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8 
Rep Power: 0  ------------------------------------------------------------

I forgot to mention I put on 22 pounds in 4 months using the Iron Man methods. 

Ive never been so pumped over a routine in my life. I now have strength I never dreamed possible for someone like myself with tiny joints.

Hes a free professioanl personal trainer *but I;m not sure how long he will keep doing it free of charge. Hopefully for a long while*...lmao..

Good luck to everyone... 

So tom you can keep pulling your 54 year old man going on 16 year old screename shenanigans--the bottom line is Ironman is a fraud. 

And you need to apoligize to Ironman Tom. Because if it wasnt for you, I wouldnt be over here on this board and Ironman wouldnt be getting ripped apart on other boards. *You singlehandedly pissed so many people off that bodybuilding board owners and site webmasters decided to call you on it. *

For the people bashing me on this board like foreman rules. So be it. To get 30 thousand posts you would have to post 10 times a day for 8 years straight and you would still not have 30 thousand posts. If my life was ever that lame that I spent that much time on a bodybuilding board, there really wouldnt be much I could ever say for myself. Unlock the door and go outside. (insert your witty comeback here--on your way to 40,000 posts)

To see Robert Dimaggio come at me like that was pretty dissapointing after I had no problem at all with giving Joachim Bartoll (the original owner of Ironmag) the thumbs up Ok in joining together a whole bunch of posts and articles by myself on this site, in a manual that got Ironmag a boatload of traffic. I didnt ask anything in return, I just said "go ahead Joachim"...I guess your response was the appreciation for that.


----------



## GFR (Feb 26, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> .


----------



## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 26, 2006)

30263 (awesome!!)


----------



## GFR (Feb 26, 2006)




----------



## CowPimp (Feb 26, 2006)

DanOz said:
			
		

> Thanks guys. I take it both of you are in favour of lower volume, higher frequency training. As I said, I love being able to train more, but the results were less than impressive with the 1st attempt. Have others also had results slow down with more frequent training? Will think on it before choosing the next program.



Thus far, my most significant results have been acheived by performing higher frequency routines.  Perhaps you just didn't properly setup the routine?


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 26, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> http://www.mmipowertraining.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1533


 
 The plot thickens.......
I followed that link and I found a post by....ta dah!

http://www.mmipowertraining.com/forum/member.php?u=243*



dg806 vbmenu_register("postmenu_13403", true); 
MMI Senior Member

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 654 




 





Addicted to flyfishing for trout here in the NC mountains. Browns, Brook and Rainbows.
It's awesome to be on a river in the middle of nowhere!



Click to expand...

http://www.mmipowertraining.com/forum/member.php?u=243http://www.mmipowertraining.com/forum/member.php?u=243http://www.mmipowertraining.com/forum/member.php?u=243*http://www.mmipowertraining.com/forum/member.php?u=243

His silence was deafening.
Dg806..*Where Were You on the Night* Chicago died?
Do you have an alibi?


----------



## kicka19 (Feb 26, 2006)

I VOTE FOR THREAD OF THE YEAR


----------



## P-funk (Feb 26, 2006)

kicka19 said:
			
		

> I VOTE FOR THREAD OF THE YEAR




here here....I second.  

good call.


----------



## DOMS (Feb 26, 2006)

This is like a horror flick.  Open Chat is 'The Blob' and it just ate the Training forum...


----------



## P-funk (Feb 26, 2006)

this is great....you guys should make a movie.


----------



## Arnold (Feb 26, 2006)

I just want to find out how I can get on Team Skip!


----------



## Nate K (Feb 26, 2006)

For Real......Others sites are ugly....that red one stressed me out just looking at it.


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 26, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=14141


 

Hah, this is getting bigger and bigger

They even used the popcorn smilie  .....the nerve of some people .


----------



## P-funk (Feb 26, 2006)

I like how that fag skip says that "ironman ripped off other people for his program".

Are you fucking kidding me?  Has this guy ever read a fucking book....all of them ripped off someone.  To think that Doggshit came up with that program on his own is a joke also.  he took some training ideas and organized them into a program.  none of these people developed any of this.

thank god Rob is our admin. and not some homo like TEAM SKIP.


----------



## GFR (Feb 26, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> I like how that fag skip says that "ironman ripped off other people for his program".
> 
> Are you fucking kidding me?  Has this guy ever read a fucking book....all of them ripped off someone.  To think that Doggshit came up with that program on his own is a joke also.  he took some training ideas and organized them into a program.  none of these people developed any of this.
> 
> thank god Rob is our admin. and not some homo like TEAM SKIP.


Please refer to skip by his internet name *" the new Joe Weider"
*
Not since the first Joe Weider has a man ripped off and taken credit for so much that he had no part in creating..


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 26, 2006)

I see we have a new player "bob's big boy" in the scene.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 26, 2006)

lol....ironmagazine really is the best board on the web.  At least our village retards are entertaining.  these people are just sad.  Doggshit is probably one of the biggest losers I have ever seen.  His program sucks my left nut.  It isn't even worthy of both my nuts.


----------



## DanOz (Feb 26, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Thus far, my most significant results have been acheived by performing higher frequency routines.  Perhaps you just didn't properly setup the routine?



Maybe - 
These were my exercises: 
Chest: DB Bench, DB Incline, Weighted Dips
Back: BB Deadlift, BB Row, Weighted Pull Ups
Quads: Squats, Leg Press, Hack Squat
Biceps: EZ Preacher, TB Preacher Hammer, Weighted Chins
Triceps: BB CG Bench, TB Skullcrushers, TB Seated Overhead Ext
Forearms: EZ Reverse Preacher, BB Wrist Curl, EZ Reverse Wrist Curl
Calfs: Standing Calf Raise, Seated Calf, Calf Press
Hams: BB Romanian Deadlift, BB SLDL, Leg Curl
Delts: BB Seated Press, DB Seated Press, DB Seated Arnold Press

I worked in the 8-12, 3-5, 1-3 for rest pause with explosive positives, squeeze at top, 5 second negatives. I used static holds, extreme stretching. 20 rep straight sets for squats, straight sets for body parts with slow recovery like hams. I'm a little limited in exercises as I train at home, so if I don't got it, I don't do it. Every body part done once every 4 days. If I went wrong somewhere, please let me know. As I said, I had limited info on the program.


----------



## gopro (Feb 26, 2006)

I am not going to get into this ridiculous argument, but I have to simply stand up for Dante here and just say that my experiences with him as a person and trainer have led to me respecting him incredibly both as a person and a trainer in this industry. He is one of the most knowledgable people around and is also just a good guy as a whole. His DC training is excellent and provides so many people with excellent results.

Just saying my piece, and now you can commence with the irrational bashing.


----------



## JerseyDevil (Feb 26, 2006)

I know Mr Biceps thru the old AnabolicFreakz and later MMI.  If Ironman is really Mr Biceps, then we all owe Dogcrapp a BIG apology.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 26, 2006)

Guys, I gotta come clean.....I stole everything about accumulation/adaptation and the double factor theory of recovery from Zatsiorsky.  I took concurrent training and cybernetic periodization from Mel Siff.  I stole plyometrics from Donald Chu too.

I am so sorry.  I took these things from these guys and called them my own.

I wonder who they took them from?

See where I am going with this?


GET THE FUCK OVER IT!  NONE OF THESE PEOPLE MADE UP THESE TRAINING PRINCIPLES.


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 26, 2006)

JerseyDevil said:
			
		

> I know Mr Biceps thru the old AnabolicFreakz and later MMI. If Ironman is really Mr Biceps, then we all owe Dogcrapp a BIG apology.


 
Is Mr Bicep a bad guy?


----------



## JerseyDevil (Feb 26, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> Guys, I gotta come clean.....I stole everything about accumulation/adaptation and the double factor theory of recovery from Zatsiorsky.  I took concurrent training and cybernetic periodization from Mel Siff.  I stole plyometrics from Donald Chu too.
> 
> I am so sorry.  I took these things from these guys and called them my own.
> 
> ...





The point is, DC actually trains top level competitors.  Whereas Mr Biceps is a numbnut who has been banned from about every site he registered with.  Of course it remains to be seen if Ironman is really Mr Biceps.


----------



## JerseyDevil (Feb 26, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> Is Mr Bicep a bad guy?


Not really.  Just a average Joe at training and steroid use.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 26, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> Guys, I gotta come clean.....I stole everything about accumulation/adaptation and the double factor theory of recovery from Zatsiorsky.  I took concurrent training and cybernetic periodization from Mel Siff.  I stole plyometrics from Donald Chu too.
> 
> I am so sorry.  I took these things from these guys and called them my own.
> 
> ...




I find people fascinating, they will read 5 things and come to the conclusion that if they combine the 5 principles it belongs to them.  Happens with guitarists all the time, too.  How many songs are based off of Stairway to Heaven or steal some portion of the guitar riff.  You can hear a song and just tell that they were jamming out to Stairway and came up with another song.


----------



## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 26, 2006)

JerseyDevil said:
			
		

> I know Mr Biceps thru the old AnabolicFreakz and later MMI.  If Ironman is really Mr Biceps, then we all owe Dogcrapp a BIG apology.



*their IP addresses match exactly* 

P-funk do ya think Ive never heard the doggshit name before? You just might be 4 years too late LOL. I never said I invented rest pause training EVER. But rest pause training has always been a set of 6 singles at almost maximum. Universally. Since the early 90's I have been the only one that has had people rest pause in a multiple rep setting i.e. 7+3+2=13rp or similiar. I havent seen one other person do that for the last 15 years until of late. I didnt invent weight lifting I didnt invent anything of cutting edge. IM not looking for pats on the back here. Do you think if i was looking for notoriety I would use the screenname Doggcrapp? Obviously I dont care that strongly about fame do I? But Ive always noted the forefather of those techniques which are similiar to mine whether it be Parillo with extreme stretching or Hernon in frequency of bodypart hit etc etc etc. Dont miscontrue my words. This guy Ironman was asking newbie questions a short while back and thought up of a way he could make money (in the long run). Go head and follow him and even sign up for his training advice (when he starts charging in the future)--he isnt a dummy.  He just likes to bullshit people to further himself ahead.


----------



## GFR (Feb 26, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> *their IP addresses match exactly*
> 
> P-funk do ya think Ive never heard the doggshit name before? You just might be 4 years too late LOL. I never said I invented rest pause training EVER. But rest pause training has always been a set of 6 singles at almost maximum. Universally. Since the early 90's I have been the only one that has had people rest pause in a multiple rep setting i.e. 7+3+2=13rp or similiar. I havent seen one other person do that for the last 15 years until of late. I didnt invent weight lifting I didnt invent anything of cutting edge. IM not looking for pats on the back here. Do you think if i was looking for notoriety I would use the screenname Doggcrapp? Obviously I dont care that strongly about fame do I? But Ive always noted the forefather of those techniques which are similiar to mine whether it be Parillo with extreme stretching or Hernon in frequency of bodypart hit etc etc etc. Dont miscontrue my words. This guy Ironman was asking newbie questions a short while back and thought up of a way he could make money (in the long run). Go head and follow him and even sign up for his training advice (when he starts charging in the future)--he isnt a dummy.  He just likes to bullshit people to further himself ahead.



*"the new Joe Weider"



Isn't it nice to have another troll who comes to this site and contributes nothing but his bitching and crying. 


*


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 26, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> * Do you think if i was looking for notoriety I would use the screenname Doggcrapp? *


*


That could be your way of utilizing reverse psychology (See Jedi Mind Trick) to trick us all.  I am keen to your antics.*


----------



## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 26, 2006)

Actually as a diehard lifelong RedSox fan and being born and raised in Massachusetts, I thought soxmuscle would be on my side.

"Bring the thunder Big Papi!"


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 26, 2006)

I am on no one's side, I know both of you equally well which is not well at all.  I do know you are both responsible for this thread which makes you alright in my book.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 26, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> Actually as a diehard lifelong RedSox fan and being born and raised in Massachusetts, I thought soxmuscle would be on my side.
> 
> "Bring the thunder Big Papi!"


I'm going to take part of your training and iron man's training, put it together and call it Tough Training. 

I now will give credit to both of you so when I'm popular I won't have to do it then. 

I'd like to thank Dante and Iron Man for making me a *rich old man*. Thank you both

Boston Sucks, Angels rule


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 26, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> Actually as a *diehard lifelong RedSox fan *and being born and raised in Massachusetts, I thought *soxmuscle* would be on my side.
> 
> "Bring the thunder Big Papi!"


 
Unfortunatly he's not the only one here.


----------



## shiznit2169 (Feb 26, 2006)

im a diehard sox fan sooo mino lee .... yankees suck!


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 26, 2006)

I came to this thread around the same time the Bosox finally won, I never got a chance to rub it in.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 26, 2006)

*Dante*

See what you got going. You weren't happy enough so you have to go and get us all arguing about baseball. Way to go. 

They all suck now that steroids are out of the picture. Look half the guys may even retire. Bonds and who's next. Bonds couldn't hit 50 homeruns without gear.


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 26, 2006)

*I spawned these.......just joking.*

*Training Methods *

*Needsize's 5x5* http://www.xtrememass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159

*Split 2x day training* . http://forums.1fast400.com/?showtopic=11847&hl=

*Fox Sets *http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=1048

*3x3 Training *http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=867 
*Max-OT*
http://www.ast-ss.com/max-ot/max-ot_intro.asp 

*Basic Splits:*
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=143006

*Conjugate splits/high frequency training:*
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=289834

*HST (Hypertrophy Specific Training):*
www.hypertrophy-specific.com
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=280813
http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=1165

*HIT (High Intensity Training):*
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-hit-training.asp
http://www.naturalstrength.com/resea...?ArticleID=207

*Dogg Crapp Training (DC):*
http://www.xtrememass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2
http://intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=4944

*Extreme Stretching (to go along with DC):*
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magaz...stretching.htm
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...89#post2046389

*Dual Factor Hypertrophy Training (DFHT)*
DFHT is another workout program that resembles HST
http://www.gettingripped.com/dfht.doc
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=682

*Westside Training:*
www.westside-barbell.com
www.elitefts.com
http://www.ironaddicts.com/articles/westsidemod.htm

What is Westside Training a.k.a. WSB? http://www.xtrememass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160
WSB for Athletes http://www.xtrememass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=370
Westside Training http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=822

*German Volume Training *(GVT)
German Volume Training (GVT) http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=659
http://www.strengthcats.com/CP-GVT.html
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis13.htm

*Advanced German Volume Training* (AVGT) 
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=658759
http://www.bodybuilding.net/showthread.php?t=760

*Tri Phase Progressive Training (TP PT):*
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/content/page-249.html

*Abbreviated Training:*
www.hardgainer.com
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/shannon13.htm

*Russian Training*
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=305786
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...threadid=74669

*Bulgarian Training*
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~keen0018/bulgar.htm
http://www.fortifiediron.net/invisio...hp/t13253.html

*Pendulum Training*
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....ticle=296pend2
Undulated Periodization - Variable Repitition Training
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/alwyn3.htm

*Ian's Top 10 Mass Makers*
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=483907

*Shoulders Overhaul*
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=469072

*Triple Threat*
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459221

*Optimized Volume Training* OVT
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459276


----------



## shiznit2169 (Feb 26, 2006)

daaamn mino, u got a looott of time on your hands


----------



## GFR (Feb 26, 2006)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> daaamn mino, u got a *looott* of time on your hands


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 26, 2006)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> daaamn mino, u got a looott of time on your hands


I found that but since this thread is basically about who stole what......lots of good links though.


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 26, 2006)

I like DOGGCRAPP... or atleast placing it in a paper bag on fire on somebodys doorstep.


----------



## DOMS (Feb 26, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

>



He's Swedish.


----------



## CowPimp (Feb 26, 2006)

DanOz said:
			
		

> Maybe -
> These were my exercises:
> Chest: DB Bench, DB Incline, Weighted Dips
> Back: BB Deadlift, BB Row, Weighted Pull Ups
> ...



How often were you performing these movements?  Once every 4 days?  If so, yeah, then you were doing a bit much in my opinion.  You also shouldn't be working in the 90-100% intensity range with every movement like that.  Read the stickies that I wrote on designing routines.  There are examples of full body and upper-lower routines in there.


----------



## DOMS (Feb 26, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> *Ian's Top 10 Mass Makers*
> http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=483907


The irony of your selection comes out in a quote from above article:



> I'll start out with discussing and explaining a simple underlying concept I have in relation to mass development. It???s very simplistic (which may not be impressive enough for those pursuing complexity); it may not be currently scientifically supported (which may not be impressive for those who want the comfort of being able to say "research shows???"); *it may not be original, as I can't claim to be the first to make this conclusion;* and it may not be popular (which may not turn on those who want to do what everyone else is doing).


----------



## CowPimp (Feb 26, 2006)

Min0, you should post all those in another thread.  That's a good collection of articles.


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 26, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Min0, you should post all those in another thread. That's a good collection of articles.


 
It's not mine, I posted this to show people the slight similarities some may have with each other. 

But it is a good list that also had a list of video sites. I might ask the guy for permission to use it.


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 26, 2006)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> I like DOGGCRAPP... or atleast placing it in a paper bag on fire on somebodys doorstep.



Thats too funny because we did that once..Cops where called and all that fun stuff.


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 26, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> I am not going to get into this ridiculous argument, but I have to simply stand up for Dante here and just say that my experiences with him as a person and trainer have led to me respecting him incredibly both as a person and a trainer in this industry. He is one of the most knowledgable people around and is also just a good guy as a whole. His DC training is excellent and provides so many people with excellent results.
> 
> Just saying my piece, and now you can commence with the irrational bashing.



No bashing here. Since DOGCRAPP thinks I have stolen his routine, let's put his little theory to the test. 

1. Let's have an open forum *DEBATE* in my FAQ section.Come on DOGCRAPP let's do this thing..Everyone from this site and every other site your affiliated with can *PARTICIPATE. *


----------



## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 26, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> No bashing here. Since DOGCRAPP thinks I have stolen his routine, let's put his little theory to the test.
> 
> 1. Let's have an open forum *DEBATE* in my FAQ section.Come on DOGCRAPP let's do this thing..Everyone from this site and every other site your affiliated with can *PARTICIPATE. *




The last time I went at you, your traffic went thru the roof on your thread at pro muscle which you absolutely loved. You think Im an idiot? Im not doing that again. So lets think about this here shall we? I would argue my point, you will argue your point and neither one of us leave with a changed mind. So who does that benefit? You with the increased traffic you would love to have in your Ironman forum. No you arent going to use me for another publicity stunt for yourself, but what you can do is answer the obvious questions you keep trying to avoid. Lets start with this one shall we? With IP addresses that match exactly are you still going to state that your not Mr.biceps?

(trust me he wont answer the question, he will segway to something else, his usual habit)

Let me guess, its your cloned brother sneaking into your house using your computer while your sleeping?


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 26, 2006)

*p-funk*



			
				P-funk said:
			
		

> I like how that fag skip says that "ironman ripped off other people for his program".
> 
> Are you fucking kidding me?  Has this guy ever read a fucking book....all of them ripped off someone.  To think that Doggshit came up with that program on his own is a joke also.  he took some training ideas and organized them into a program.  none of these people developed any of this.
> 
> thank god Rob is our admin. and not some homo like TEAM SKIP.



P-funk it's true my IP-ADDRESS does go back to my friends place of business-residence-one in the same.. Mr.B understands my situation and in return I have helped him put on more size in 3 months than he had been able to lay on in the past 3 years. Same thing happened to VANDER V at Professional Muscle after being on my program for 3 months. It's no ones business who I really am and I have my reasons.   

 Theres only 2 things DANTE has been right on and the rest is HOGWASH.

1. I do not train Ronnie Coleman. However I did assist him on 2 different occasions. Hey thats more than most can claim.. 
2. I've semi copied one of his articles on purpose. He kept whining over at Pro muscle about me stealing his rest-pause    so I got fed up and copied the first line out of one of his articles just to piss him off.Heck I figured if he was going to accuse me  I would do it *once* just for spite.  It gets old when you know someone is trying to run you down and it would appear the *BATTLE HAS JUST BEGUN* 



 Why so much drama over the IRON MAN "HIT"?? I'll tell you straight up. Take a very close look at the DC thread, those guys at Intense Muscle are beginning to get desperate because their board is slowing down, and they know that my routine is one of the hottest thing on the market right now and it's for *FREE*. So their little click has been using my name and going to different boards posting up links, stirring up _DOGCRAP_, all in the name of bringing in traffic. With these boys it all comes down to the *MIGHTY DOLLAR BILL*. 

*NOTE: I have invited DOGCRAPP over to our site for a public debate in the FAQ section in my sub-forum so the listening audience can find out who is real and who is not.*I will not leave this board to defend my cause. I do not believe DOGCRAPP has the manhood to face me one on one..I think it's time *DANTE PUT UP OR SHUT UP **I'LL BRING MY POOPER SCOOPER.  *


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 26, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> The last time I went at you, your traffic went thru the roof on your thread at pro muscle which you absolutely loved. You think Im an idiot? Im not doing that again. So lets think about this here shall we? I would argue my point, you will argue your point and neither one of us leave with a changed mind. So who does that benefit? You with the increased traffic you would love to have in your Ironman forum. No you arent going to use me for another publicity stunt for yourself, but what you can do is answer the obvious questions you keep trying to avoid. Lets start with this one shall we? With IP addresses that match exactly are you still going to state that your not Mr.biceps?
> 
> (trust me he wont answer the question, he will segway to something else, his usual habit)
> 
> Let me guess, its your cloned brother sneaking into your house using your computer while your sleeping?



*WRONG*Mr.B is my close friend. IP addresses are quite easy to trace and I told everyone at Professional muscle my true identity would remain a mystery from the beginning. If your smart you'll eventually figure out why . 

*I KNEW YOU'D COW DOWN ON DEBATING ME. **NOT ENOUGH MONEY INVOLVED..EH???*


----------



## DOGGCRAPP (Feb 26, 2006)

Just seeing you try to explain this all away is some of the best internet fodder anyone has ever seen (now mr.biceps is your close freind at a place of business, both the same age, one son each, 21 inch guns, from TN, both christian fanatics, same writing style, training for same number of years, both recommending 12-15 degree inclines and declines everywhere), have you looked at the times you and he have been posting? Are you and him hanging out at the shop at 230 am in the morning?

Guess what? Your 15 minutes of fame has just ended.....


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 26, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> Just seeing you try to explain this all away is some of the best internet fodder anyone has ever seen (now mr.biceps is your close freind at a place of business, both the same age, one son each, 21 inch guns, from TN, both christian fanatics, same writing style, training for same number of years, both recommending 12-15 degree inclines and declines everywhere), have you looked at the times you and he have been posting? Are you and him hanging out at the shop at 230 am in the morning?
> 
> Guess what? Your 15 minutes of fame has just ended.....



What gave you the *FUCKING idea I am a Christian fanatic. What are you a damn atheist??*

I'm much  *LARGER *and *LEANER* than Mr.b.and it was I who taught *MR.B* how to do 15 degree declines not the other way around. I  learned the method from *BILL PEARL not YOU!! .  * It's not a shop and it's none of your business where and when I use a computer.Your just pissed  I am never *EVER EVER* going to tell you who I really am. *GET OVER IT!!! * 

Lets debate on this thread..*WILL YOU DEBATE BODYBUILDING WITH ME ON THIS THREAD??*


----------



## P-funk (Feb 27, 2006)

Dale once stole my program design on another board when he was using the name Mr. Semimembranosus.....I know it was you mother fucker!!  I know you took my ideas.


----------



## WantItBad (Feb 27, 2006)

I throw hang cleans in to myworkouts now sometimes sorry p-funk i stole your idea of olympic lifting


----------



## NEW_MASS (Feb 27, 2006)

*Im Surprised!*



			
				DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> Just seeing you try to explain this all away is some of the best internet fodder anyone has ever seen (now mr.biceps is your close freind at a place of business, both the same age, one son each, 21 inch guns, from TN, both christian fanatics, same writing style, training for same number of years, both recommending 12-15 degree inclines and declines everywhere), have you looked at the times you and he have been posting? Are you and him hanging out at the shop at 230 am in the morning?
> 
> Guess what? Your 15 minutes of fame has just ended.....


 DC i'm surprised you haven't caught on yet to the fact that Mr Biceps was a trainee under the "HIT" Program.
Im also surprised that you can't see the possibility of what your saying about how everything "Appears" to be an Exact Duplicate. 
Situations like this can and do happen when one hangs around another for some time, their styles become A-alike, its the Law of Nature im very surprised you haven't caught on to this yet. Evidently the Program had an Enormous Effect on Mr Biceps to the point that he picked up The IRONMAN Ways of doing things such as being on the comp 230 am in morning in which talking or posting this late could be due to the Heavy Effect the program Distilled.


----------



## CowPimp (Feb 27, 2006)

All of you are obviously performing a routine consisting of a high volume of fudge packing.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 27, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> Dale once stole my program design on another board when he was using the name Mr. Semimembranosus.....I know it was you mother fucker!!  I know you took my ideas.



The only routine I ever posted on another board was devoted entirely to kegel exercises for wang growth.  And it was under Mr. Piriformis, so we know you are lying.


----------



## Triple Threat (Feb 27, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> *Training Methods *
> 
> *Triple Threat*
> http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459221



  Those bastards stole my training program!


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 27, 2006)

*Yo Dogcrapp*

*Let's have this debate in two seperate locations. The IRON MAN sub-forum and the Dogpound*

We will debate on training methods "only"

*Am I That much of a  Threat to your on-line personal training business   *


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 27, 2006)

*Dogcrapp*

*DOCGRAPP* 



*I SMELL GREED* 

*YOUV'E BEEN SERVED*


----------



## P-funk (Feb 27, 2006)

We all know there is only one online perosnal traininer...his name is DALE MABRY!!!


----------



## GFR (Feb 27, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> We all know there is only one online perosnal traininer...his name is DALE MABRY!!!


True story, Dale come over last week and trained me....my ass is still sore...


----------



## petrainer (Feb 27, 2006)

I love how the #1 promoter of Ironmans training is a 50 year old "enhanced" lifter who displays pictures of himself that show zero muscular development.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 27, 2006)

petrainer said:
			
		

> I love how the #1 promoter of Ironmans training is a 50 year old "enhanced" lifter who displays pictures of himself that show zero muscular development.




hey, I know you.


----------



## petrainer (Feb 27, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> hey, I know you.



Sup P funk. Just tossing my 2 cents in on the insanity.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 27, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> We all know there is only one online perosnal traininer...his name is DALE MABRY!!!




I wouldn't begin to know what a perosnal is, let alone be able to train one.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 27, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> I wouldn't begin to know what a perosnal is, let alone be able to train one.




shut it Mr. Anconeus.  You will never be forgiven for stealing my training ideas.

No seriously guys....I went to school with the guy that invented gyms and he claims he knows the guy that intvented working out.  Amazing isn't it!


----------



## petrainer (Feb 27, 2006)

Both workouts were stolen from Leo Costa Jr. He stole his shit from the Bulgarians. The Bulgarians apparently stole their shit from Vince Gironda.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 27, 2006)

"There's only so many way to permutate training and I dareay most have been tried at this point. The old joke is that, whatever you're doing now, Grimek probably did it 50 years ago. Except that it's no joke. You can look at just about any trainnig protocol being done now, and it's been used/tried at some point during the 20th century. So when I hear about the HST guys adding some partials at the end of their sets for more metabolic work; I think "Ah, like Gironda who used to advocated 6-8 'burns' when you hit failure". My combination of tension/metabolic work in the same workout is fundamentally no different than a zillion protocols that have come before. But I never claimed that it was."

-Lyle McDonald


----------



## GFR (Feb 27, 2006)

petrainer said:
			
		

> Both workouts were stolen from Leo Costa Jr. He stole his shit from the Bulgarians. The Bulgarians apparently stole their shit from Vince Gironda.


True story, back in the 80's I used several of Vince Gironda's training programs.....and most were 20 +years old already


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 27, 2006)

petrainer said:
			
		

> I love how the #1 promoter of Ironmans training is a 50 year old "enhanced" lifter who displays pictures of himself that show zero muscular development.


What's your problem jackass. I hadn't lifted in over 20 years until about a year and a half ago. theni double tear a left elbow tendon and then the left rotaor cuff. So i'm nothing special, but I'm not going to stop until i get to where i want to be. 

I set around mexico for 11 years drinking beer and got real fat, way over 300 lbs. In the pic's below I'm down to 223 lbs and still doing my best to lift even with all the injuries. How about you zit face. Will you still be training when your in you fifty's. 

I'm also a lot bigger now 3 months later then in the below pic.


----------



## petrainer (Feb 27, 2006)

Yeah I will be. I started training when I was 15. I'm 33. Ive never stopped.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 27, 2006)

petrainer said:
			
		

> Yeah I will be. I started training when I was 15. I'm 33. Ive never stopped.


Well maybe you have my luck and break your shoulder when you 35. See I was never suppose to lift again. But about 18 months ago i figured if i didn't get off my ass and start training that I would die shortly. So sometimes it takes thing to make you see the big picture. 

So don't critize me Lad as I have boys older then you that are in as good as shape as you or better.  Your not going to find many 53 year olds as strong as me. 

I'm not so little anymore as in that pic and when the time comes i'll post more pic's.  

Why don't you post a pic of you and maybe I can tear your's down. Deal Lad. Otherwise let things be unless you want a war on your hands.


----------



## petrainer (Feb 27, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Why don't you post a pic of you and maybe I can tear your's down. Deal Lad. Otherwise let things be unless you want a war on your hands.



Its the only pic in my gallery. 

I can post some of me today, not in contest shape at 250, natural... If you like.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 27, 2006)

petrainer said:
			
		

> Its the only pic in my gallery.
> 
> I can post some of me today, not in contest shape at 250, natural... If you like.




are you going to compete in the eastern states in NYC coming up in june?  Or, are you going to be competing in NYC at all this spring?


----------



## petrainer (Feb 27, 2006)

Im looking to hit something this winter, so I can keep doing some strongman stuff right now, and not worry about getting lean right now.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 27, 2006)

petrainer said:
			
		

> Its the only pic in my gallery.
> 
> I can post some of me today, not in contest shape at 250, natural... If you like.


Really I'm not interested. But I will say this. If you think it's easy putting on muscle after the age of 50, then you need to regroup. I didn't start this until i was already 51 and it's been a tough going. But i've hung in there. 

Does arnold look like he's in the same shape now that he was in his 30's. Why not he still trains. Cause the fucking muscle don't want to do anything but retire. 

Pick on someone your own age lad when it comes to bodybuilding. I'm actually a hell of a lot better at something else and won't get into that. but will tell you it's more physical then bodybuilding

Petrainer you look good, but you also look as old as me in that pic. Sorry





Tough


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 27, 2006)

This thread must  has brought alot of attention from other forums, and rightfully so.
But it's funny how grown men bitch as much as women do though.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 27, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> This thread must  has brought alot of attention from other forums, and rightfully so.
> But it's funny how grown men bitch as much as women do though.


What would you know frank?..But old toughy still wants you.


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 27, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> What would you know frank?..But old toughy still wants you.


 
Don't get me wrong I enjoy this thread.


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 27, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> What's your problem jackass. I hadn't lifted in over 20 years until about a year and a half ago. theni double tear a left elbow tendon and then the left rotaor cuff. So i'm nothing special, but I'm not going to stop until i get to where i want to be.
> 
> I set around mexico for 11 years drinking beer and got real fat, way over 300 lbs. In the pic's below I'm down to 223 lbs and still doing my best to lift even with all the injuries. How about you zit face. Will you still be training when your in you fifty's.
> 
> I'm also a lot bigger now 3 months later then in the below pic.



Let's see a picture of that sexy lady standing next to you. She looks cute. 

I think TOM is built very well for 53 years of age. 

*Editors Note:**Inconsiderate people who ridicule others bodies are just plain IGNORANT.*


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 27, 2006)

Tough ridiculed my body, my knowledge, and the way i train.  Are you calling Tom ignorant!?


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 27, 2006)

*Dogpound???*

* I agree whole heartly with moderator P-FUNK. Every training style under the sun was built upon others methods. The IRON MAN "HIT" was built off of various training principles that I put together. The SLINGSHOT method was the only part I devised all by my lonesome and I'm sure I was not the first to discover this techinque. 


But DOGCRAPP believes he was the originator of his routine  WITH NO HELP FROM OTHERS???  . So- *http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=60710


----------



## JerseyDevil (Feb 27, 2006)

petrainer said:
			
		

> Both workouts were stolen from Leo Costa Jr. He stole his shit from the Bulgarians. The Bulgarians apparently stole their shit from Vince Gironda.


Yeah but Leo Costa Jr gave plenty of credit to the Bulgarian's throughout his "Big Beyond Belief" series.

I know about the 'Iron Guru', but I never really read his training principles.  From what I did read, it seems to me he shunned basic compound movements in favor of cables.  Maybe that was just one phase....


----------



## P-funk (Feb 27, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> * I agree whole heartly with moderator P-FUNK. Every training style under the sun was built upon others methods. The IRON MAN "HIT" was built off of various training principles that I put together. The SLINGSHOT method was the only part I devised all by my lonesome and I'm sure I was not the first to discover this techinque.
> 
> 
> But DOGCRAPP believes he was the originator of his routine  WITH NO HELP FROM OTHERS???  . So- *http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=60710




actually (LOL), if you re-read the post I STOLE it from Lyle McDonald....hahahha....THE SAGA CONTINUES!!


----------



## shiznit2169 (Feb 27, 2006)

is it me or am i watching the best soap opera show ever created? 

The ironman soap box


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 27, 2006)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> Tough ridiculed my body, my knowledge, and the way i train. Are you calling Tom ignorant!?


Only when you bashed iron man. If you bash him again, then you leave me no choice but to thrash you. You want peace, don't bash iron's training until you have put in 6 months of it. then you can bash it all you want. 

And fuck no he's not calling me ignorant but intelligent for using his training. Get the picture sonny. 

I only made one mistake here and that was bashing Dante. I shouldn't have done that as he never done anything to me which I may have not deserved. This is between Dante and Iron Man and I will no longer get involved in there dispute. 

Note: I will continue to use Iron Man's training as it has help me to reach the next level. That's all I can ask of a trainer regardless of where the info comes from.


----------



## JerseyDevil (Feb 27, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> I only made one mistake here and that was bashing Dante. I shouldn't have done that as he never done anything to me which I may have not deserved. This is between Dante and Iron Man and I will no longer get involved in there dispute.


That is the best thing you said this entire thread


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 27, 2006)

i never bashed iron man's training.  i bashed his spelling and grammar or lack thereof.

dante has held himself to perfection in this thread.  iron man has not.  again, i'm not picking sides, thats just what i see from reading this thread to its entirety.


----------



## GFR (Feb 27, 2006)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> *i *never bashed iron man's training.  *i* bashed his spelling and grammar or lack thereof.
> 
> * d*ante has held himself to perfection in this thread.  *i*ron man has not.  *a*gain*,* *i*'m not picking sides, *thats* ( that's ) just what *i* see from reading this thread to its entirety.


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 27, 2006)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> i never bashed iron man's training. i bashed his spelling and grammar or lack thereof.
> 
> dante has held himself to perfection in this thread. iron man has not. again, i'm not picking sides, thats just what i see from reading this thread to its entirety.


 
I see no winners here so far but what I do see is Ironman donating his knowledge and time here free of charge. 
What does Dante have to offer Ironmagazine?


----------



## P-funk (Feb 27, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> I see no winners here so far but what I do see is Ironman donating his knowledge and time here free of charge.
> *What does Dante have to offer Ironmagazine?*



nothing...he is a selfish scum bag piece of shit.

three cheers for ironman!


----------



## GFR (Feb 27, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> nothing...he is a selfish scum bag piece of shit.
> 
> three cheers for ironman!


True story, Dante is a big homo.


----------



## BigDyl (Feb 27, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> *Editors Note:**Inconsiderate people who ridicule others bodies are just plain IGNORANT.*




True Story,

Clemson357 fits this profile


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 27, 2006)

*Dantes "Butt Buddy" Skip*

DOGCRAPP has a butt buddy. His name is Skip Lacour and he owns IntenseMuscle. If you thought DOGCRAPP was conceited, wait until you meet up with this ASS-HOLE. Below is a quote from Mr.Skip Lacour himself: 

Have I become the number one authority on drug-free bodybuilding because I am so brilliant? No. Is the reason why I???m considered the leader in drug-free training because I???m the best-built drug-free bodybuilder on the planet? No. The simple reason why I???m believed to be the ultimate resource for drug-free bodybuilding information is because no one else is trying to do what I???m doing! No one else in the bodybuilding world has put as much effort into searching for answers, dissected the subject from as many different angles, has been doing so with the same amount of intensity, or has been doing so for as long as I have. 

LMAO..Now take a look at this so-called natural bodybuilders picture. *I WANT TO DEBATE BOTH SKIP AND DANTE AT THE SAME TIME. * You should see the shelf of supplements this guy has in the back ground trying to sell. I'll let you guys decide on whether hes a true natural or someone trying to make a buck.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 27, 2006)

holy shit...team skip is skip "i didn't use steriods" lacoure....hahahhahaha...what a chump.


----------



## GFR (Feb 27, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> DOGCRAPP has a butt buddy. His name is Skip Lacour and he owns IntenseMuscle. If you thought DOGCRAPP was conceited, wait until you meet up with this ASS-HOLE. Below is a quote from Mr.Skip Lacour himself:
> 
> Have I become the number one authority on drug-free bodybuilding because I am so brilliant? No. Is the reason why I???m considered the leader in drug-free training because I???m the best-built drug-free bodybuilder on the planet? No. The simple reason why I???m believed to be the ultimate resource for drug-free bodybuilding information is because no one else is trying to do what I???m doing! No one else in the bodybuilding world has put as much effort into searching for answers, dissected the subject from as many different angles, has been doing so with the same amount of intensity, or has been doing so for as long as I have.
> 
> LMAO..Now take a look at this so-called natural bodybuilders picture. *I WANT TO DEBATE BOTH SKIP AND DANTE AT THE SAME TIME. * You should see the shelf of supplements this guy has in the back ground trying to sell. I'll let you guys decide on whether hes a true natural or someone trying to make a buck.


Skip Lacour is as natural as I am....true story


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 27, 2006)

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/undercover12.htm






> What do you think about Skip Lacour finally getting his pro card? Any chance at the Masters Olympia?





> By using the word finally in your question, that would give one the impression that he is deserving of his card and people were expecting him to get it for some time now... not! I don't understand how Mr. Lacour got his card and quite honestly, its bullshit. Did he win the USA Championships? No. Did he win the Nationals or the North American? No. As far as I am concerned these are the only events that enable you to receive your pro card by winning the over-all or in some cases your weight class. Skip Lacour got his card because some one felt sorry for him. He should be ashamed and doesn't deserve by any means to walk onto a professional stage. Good thing is, when he walks on stage at a pro competition and never here's his name for a comparison, it will be the last time you see Lacour in the pro ranks.


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 27, 2006)

*Team Skip*



			
				P-funk said:
			
		

> holy shit...team skip is skip "i didn't use steriods" lacoure....hahahhahaha...what a chump.



Yes sir re..Skip and DOGCRAPP are quite affectionate toward one another .Skip built the DOGPOUNDD especially for Dante. They have been after me for some time now. It would appear we have put a damper on their dishonest enterprise.

*TALK ABOUT HAVING YOUR ASS HANDED TO YA ON A PLATTER*LOL:


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 27, 2006)

*Uugh*

More doctrines by *TEAM BULLSHIT* 


Be proud of yourself -- but do not get self-righteous. You shouldn't judge another person's personal decisions. Regardless of how right you feel you are, judging them harshly will never influence them to change their behavior. The drug-users will probably just lash back at you in retaliation. Instead, become a positive example of what is attainable drug free.

It takes a lot of hard work, knowledge and discipline to become a good bodybuilder -- whether you use drugs or not. Some people just have different standards of what they will do in order to "get big" or "ripped." Hasn't anyone in the general public ever asked you, "Why in the world do you spend so much time to get those muscles?!" Who are they to judge you?

If you choose not to do steroids -- good for you! Quit criticizing the other guys and get to work. If you can't hang with the big boys, enter drug-tested contests only. I believe if you spend less time on your "soapbox" and more time training and eating intelligently, you can give any bodybuilder a run for their money. Show everyone just how good you can be drug free. Let your physique do your talking.

4. As you improve, get ready for the skeptics. Natural bodybuilding must be the only sport in the world when you get too good, it sometimes becomes a bad thing. It seems that the entire general public believes anyone who spends a lot of time in the gym and has any degree of muscle mass has to be on steroids. "There is no way they can get that big naturally!" they say.

This can be especially frustrating to the natural bodybuilder. Whether you are 140  pounds or 240 pounds, you probably have been accused by someone of using steroids. If not, you will as you get better. Although you want to be known and respected for your decision not to use drugs, everyone in the general public is not going to believe you.

What happens when natural bodybuilders get so good they begin looking "unnatural"? Their creditability is questioned. Everyone in the gym thinks they are on drugs. If they are ever in a bad mood, it's because of steroids. Sore losers accuse them of cheating the system. People have even gone on to say about me, "Why doesn't he just be a man and admit he takes drugs?" All of my efforts and now even my manhood is questioned?!

I have in the past tried my hardest to prove my status to the world with no success. I don't even try anymore. I remember listening as a 6-foot, 170-pound natural bodybuilder ranted and raved for about a half-hour about how someone in his gym accused him of being on steroids and how mad it made him. As his face turned every shade of red, I realized, "If they are saying that about him, I can just imagine what they saying about me being 5'10", 230 pounds in contest shape! I don't worry about what everybody thinks anymore and you shouldn't either.

5. Give better natural bodybuilders the credit they deserve. "There's no way that guy was natural!," disappointed competitors mutter after leaving most natural bodybuilding shows. It seems to me that the general opinion of a lot of natural bodybuilders is that anyone better than they are must be on drugs! These complainers are usually the same hypocrites who go berserk when anyone accuses them of drug use.

If this applies to you -- get out of your comfort zone and quit trying to make yourself feel good with excuses. They passed the testing process just like you. You should give those better than you the credit they deserve and use them to motivate you to get better. Maybe they trained harder and smarter, knew more about nutrition, had better genetics, or have been bodybuilding longer. Find out what they did better than you and beat them next time. All you are doing is keeping natural bodybuilding "second-rate" by spreading your opinion that if you are good, you can't be natural. How do you expect the sport you are so enthusiastic about to flourish if you spread such negativity?

Because of differences in genetic potential, natural hormonal levels, training methods, nutritional habits, and others, natural bodybuilders grow at different rates. It is quite believable that the physique that took you ten years to build could get demolished on stage by someone who has just been training for two.

6. Applaud past drug-users for competing drug-free. The benefits of steroids and other drugs do not last forever. Most natural contests require competitors to be drug free for at least one year. Most experts believe the benefits of the drugs have disappeared by the end of that time.

Instead of criticizing those who have once used drugs, applaud them for their efforts to compete without them. Lifelong natural bodybuilders actually have a mental advantage because of not knowing how much easier it is to get in contest shape with drugs. Most successful bodybuilders who try to go drug-free have a hard time dealing with the fact that they will be weaker, have to diet more strictly and for a longer period of time, will not get as ripped, and will have smaller muscle size. Many do not even get off the starting block. Those past drug-users who do compete deserve credit for being able to persevere while getting results inferior to those they are accustomed to getting. Applaud them for coming "clean."

If you do lose to a past drug-user, before you go into a rage, ask yourself the following questions: Was it their past drug use -- or my lack of size, symmetry, or conditioning that caused me to place behind them? Was it because they used drugs in their past - or did they place ahead of me because they have superior genetics? Was it the fact that they have been training 15 years -- while I have only been training for three years -- that caused the judges to see them as better than me? Most of the time, all the drugs they may have used in the past won't overcome these disadvantages you are facing. Be honest with yourself!

7. Only enter contests in your best shape. Natural bodybuilding's success will be determined by the quality of its shows. Because many natural bodybuilders have such low expectations of what can be accomplished drug free, many enter contests in horrible condition.

Find out what it takes to look your very best. Don't assume the quality of the competition won't be very good because it's a natural contest.

8. List the reasons why you choose to train drug free. Natural bodybuilders are in a very difficult position. They must train harder and smarter, diet more strictly and longer, to get less dramatic results than their drug-using counterparts. Yet, the general public usually lumps them with all bodybuilders and doesn't give them the credit deserved. Why in the world would anyone choose to train this way?

You must have an ironclad will to persevere as a natural bodybuilder. But what about when you have just had enough?

List the reasons on paper why you have decided to train without the use of drugs. Refer to it in the toughest times -- when you feel like doing drugs or giving up bodybuilding altogether.

9. List the rewards for being a drug-free bodybuilder. What are the rewards for natural competitors?

Writing down all the rewards you could possibly gain if you do well can make working towards them a lot easier. Keep this list of rewards with the list of reasons you train naturally and refer to them often to fuel your motivation.

10. Take advantage of the new series of natural contests. Natural bodybuilding contests have gotten very little coverage in the major bodybuilding magazines in the past. Every lifter dreams of gracing the pages of the major muscle magazines or even becoming a bodybuilding star. This is difficult for any bodybuilder, but especially tough for naturals. A lot of bodybuilders would do anything to accomplish this dream -- even if it means taking drugs.

The NPC Ironman Naturally series of contests, the NPC Team Universe, the Natural Musclemania are tremendous avenues for exposure. I am certain the bodybuilding magazines will soon give more coverage and information 

*HE HAD THE AUDACITY TO MENTION THE NAME IRONMAN*


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 27, 2006)

*Funny Thread About Skip*

It was Skip and DOGCRAPP who badgered me at Professional Muscle for making them look inadequate..DOGCRAPP got on the board demanding Skip made it to the Pro level without ever using drugs.  I must have been a real threat to their enterprise when I wrote a declaration stating *NO PRO BODYBUILDERS ARE DRUG FREE*

Heres the link to the thread:http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Je5rjsy.../showthread.php?s=&pagenumber=&threadid=40859


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 27, 2006)

*For Team Skip*

I feel that I  have the moderation to not post my pics for the world to see. I have my excuses and that's that.

Heres a quote from one of my trainess VANDER V talking about the IRON MAN "Bulking Routine" after I was ran off at Professional muscle.


 One more thing , it worked , i dont care if hes fucking Corky Parks lol what works works and besides that Big A Phil DC all knew it was a copy cat of there methods , do there methods not work? i grew more in that 4 months then ever in my entire life and im sure New MAss , Bald NAzi and the others that tried it loved it as much as me . So congrats to IROMAN job well done , who ever he is hes done a good thing for me and the others .
__________________
The iron is my field and I am the Brabancon that plows it.

Think and grow BIG 
Vander V 



*I CHARGED THIS MAN NOT A CENT*


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Feb 28, 2006)

Who the heck is Doggcrapp and who the heck is Iron man?


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 28, 2006)

This is actually funny, because I'm following this on here,and on Intense Muscle....


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 28, 2006)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> Who the heck is Doggcrapp and who the heck is Iron man?


You have to add RippedNYLifter in the mix.


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 28, 2006)

I'm just another dude....


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 28, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> I'm just another dude....


 
Nothing against you either, but you were flamed for doing nothing bad so your part of the show.  
A really good show at that.


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 28, 2006)

Touche, wheres that popcorn?


----------



## Super Hulk (Feb 28, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> It was Skip and DOGCRAPP who badgered me at Professional Muscle for making them look inadequate..DOGCRAPP got on the board demanding Skip made it to the Pro level without ever using drugs.  I must have been a real threat to their enterprise when I wrote a declaration stating *NO PRO BODYBUILDERS ARE DRUG FREE*
> 
> Heres the link to the thread:http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Je5rjsy.../showthread.php?s=&pagenumber=&threadid=40859




What about Arnold ? he said he never used steroids


----------



## phreak (Feb 28, 2006)

iron man, i don't know why you continue to entertain this topic...  every time you respond or stoke the fire you are legitimizing the whole drama.  just let it go man!!!  be the bigger person and don't respond.  i want to talk and learn about training via your methods, not read pot shots at DC or Skip.

and i don't think Skip is Skip Lacour...

just let it go brother.  you have a forum where you won't be run off or challenged or harassed.  this is a good thing- focus on that.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 28, 2006)

phreak said:
			
		

> iron man, i don't know why you continue to entertain this topic...  every time you respond or stoke the fire you are legitimizing the whole drama.  just let it go man!!!  be the bigger person and don't respond.  i want to talk and learn about training via your methods, not read pot shots at DC or Skip.
> 
> and i don't think Skip is Skip Lacour...
> 
> just let it go brother.  you have a forum where you won't be run off or challenged or harassed.  this is a good thing- focus on that.


*What's your screen name at Intense Muscle.?*


----------



## Dale Mabry (Feb 28, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> *What's your screen name at Intense Muscle.?*




Stephen Beauchamp.


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 28, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> That skip is NOT skiplacour... First lets look at legs http://www.skiplacour.com/2003_TU/Most_Muscular_Comstock.gif
> 
> http://www.intensemuscle.com/customavatars/avatar3_0.gif
> 
> How do they even look like skip lacour's legs? Skip's are bigger. Second if the pics don't convince you: Doesn't Skip LaCour support AST Science, I'm pretty sure he writes articles for them too. FFS why would a guy doing personal training have time to write articles for another site, and support them, when he has Team Skip to worry about? OH BTW Skip openly admits he uses steroids, don't believe me?



Same legs...


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 28, 2006)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> Who the heck is Doggcrapp and who the heck is Iron man?



I like this guy..


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 28, 2006)

phreak said:
			
		

> iron man, i don't know why you continue to entertain this topic...  every time you respond or stoke the fire you are legitimizing the whole drama.  just let it go man!!!  be the bigger person and don't respond.  i want to talk and learn about training via your methods, not read pot shots at DC or Skip.
> 
> and i don't think Skip is Skip Lacour...
> 
> just let it go brother.  you have a forum where you won't be run off or challenged or harassed.  this is a good thing- focus on that.



phreak, do you comprehend how many diverse websites these jokers are using to try and ruin the reputation belonging to myself and mr.b? Could it be they owe me and Mr.b a public apology??????   

NEW MASS sums it up quite well.


The Excuse now is Traffic ????  The traffic is going to be here and every other board with or without you guys problems, no question. 

DC has to be getting these Crazy Ideas either from one of his guys who's jealous of the way things are going or a poster name trying to stir the pot to fit in, or someone who is probably sick in the head and likes to stir things up at all cost in order to be seen or heard.(All i can say is be weiry of your sources) 

Now I thought getting things Cleared and getting to the bottom of this thing as far as the Programs are concerned was more important, now the Traffic is the new excuse and a problem . The claim is IRONMAN is using alot of your words, program techniques etc. etc which you want to Show and Prove so that credit can be givin to where credit is due. Well stop the Excuses and come face the Man so the problems can be Addressed and Dealt with. The Man has told Me, Tom and probably a few others, and said it on a open post that if there really is a problem you can come right here where he is and tell him what they are, just you and him so others can't jump in like they can outside this sub-forum or on other boards because he's the Mod here.If this can't happen then i say from here on out it's best to be quiet about it and not post up on other boards still claiming this issue as this will only continue to leave room for doubt and probably confirm in the heads of many newbies including myself that something may not be right with you just crying all the time instead of coming straight to the source and dealing with it. You guys better deal with things as Men do ,Straight up and Down!! For both of your Reps will be known World Wide.


*Editors Note:**My intentions are to train others. But, no one in their right mind is going to sit back and take this kind of abuse, especially from those who shrink from danger after stirring up the DOGCRAP in the first place. *


----------



## BigDyl (Feb 28, 2006)

I think the only way to settle this arguement now...


Is with the first OFFICIAL IM CAGE MATCH!


----------



## phreak (Feb 28, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> *What's your screen name at Intense Muscle.?*



i'm not on intense muscle.


----------



## GFR (Feb 28, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> That skip is NOT skiplacour... First lets look at legs http://www.skiplacour.com/2003_TU/Most_Muscular_Comstock.gif
> 
> http://www.intensemuscle.com/customavatars/avatar3_0.gif
> 
> How do they even look like skip lacour's legs? Skip's are bigger. Second if the pics don't convince you: Doesn't Skip LaCour support AST Science, I'm pretty sure he writes articles for them too. FFS why would a guy doing personal training have time to write articles for another site, and support them, when he has Team Skip to worry about? OH BTW Skip openly admits he uses steroids, don't believe me?


*Skip lied about his steroid use for over a decade*......now on some web site he comes out and admits it...LMAO.....we all knew that back in 1996 I have no respect for *losers like Skip*, this guy competes in natural shows and cheats, he lies to the fans and kids who idolize  him...total loser.


----------



## dontsurfonmytur (Feb 28, 2006)

im up for a cage fight


----------



## Arnold (Feb 28, 2006)

Super Hulk said:
			
		

> What about Arnold ? he said he never used steroids



you're joking, right?


----------



## gopro (Feb 28, 2006)

Ok, I need to come clean because I cannot take it anymore...

I AM BOTH IRON MAN AND DOGGCRAPP!! 

I am so sorry everyone!

I was just not satisfied with being GOPRO...I wanted more!!

But this is just too much work!!

I don't even know how to train MYSELF anymore! I keep doing an exercise and yelling at myself that I stole it from myself!! How can I have an effective workout when all I do is accuse myself of stealing my own ideas! I am going LOCO!

I think what I need to do is get on heavy medication and rest my 21" or 22" inch arms or 235 or 290 lb body for a while.

Please forgive me fine people of Ironmagazine.com. I am sorry I have caused so much pain and confusion.

And now that I am confessing everything, I will tell you the true secret to getting big.......................................................Oh doggcrapp, I forget.


----------



## min0 lee (Feb 28, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> Since Doggcrapp doesn't want to give this site traffic by debating: http://s11.invisionfree.com/Dogg_vs_Iron/index.php? You guys can use that forum, if he doesn't want to do it here.


 
What's wrong with us getting traffic, is he worried he'll lose some of his people?
That's something he shouldn't worry about if his site is so good.

Are you a mole, a scout... what's your role in this?


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 28, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> Ok, I need to come clean because I cannot take it anymore...
> 
> I AM BOTH IRON MAN AND DOGGCRAPP!!
> 
> ...


This is really great news. We can call you Iron Dogg. This means that half of you charges $400 and the other half is free. So this means the whole Iron Dogg training is going to be split or a total of $200. Where can I sign up?


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 28, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> What's wrong with us getting traffic, is he worried he'll lose some of his people?
> That's something he shouldn't worry about if his site is so good.
> 
> Are you A) troll,  B) Girl scout... what's your role in this?



I say both A and B. Wonder if those cookies are still $1


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 28, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> Ok, I need to come clean because I cannot take it anymore...
> 
> I AM BOTH IRON MAN AND DOGGCRAPP!!
> 
> ...



I like this GOPRO.


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 28, 2006)

*The Team Skip "Saga"*

Posted by Skip at IntenseMuscle.

Ironman: You are not only a fake but you are a giant pussy. I can't even believe that you are still trying to maneuver into some kind of control of the shitstorm you have created. It is laughable, at best. I shake my head every time I hear something that you have said. You have stolen the "nut-job-of-the-year" award from TOM. Hell, you are making TOM look look like a functional, normal, nonbi-polar kind of guy. No love lost TOM, I just gotta make my point. ; )

If anyone thinks for one second that Ironman won't edit posts on his own site, you don't understand what that fuck just did and is still trying to get out of. I opened the forum up here because I might be alot of things but I can be trusted to not touch a damned thing that anyone is going to type here. He should be a man and bring his sorry ass over here and either man up or give it his best bullshit argument. Instead, he hasn't been here but admits that he will debate it on his own board. Why only on your own board? To not respond here but say that he will debate on his own board only shows that he is obviously up to something and, really, who should trust THAT mother fucker?? I don't. He can bring his silly ass over here and respond.

I will also say that This Ironman/TOM email back and forth thing is bullshit. I don't know what part of that I believe, if any of it. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if that sorry assed Ironman wasn't signing in from TOM's account. In fact, I am going to go check the IPs right now to see because that would make alot more sense than half the shit I have read today.

One more thing, if anyone is scratching their heads wondering why this pisses me off so much I will tell you: I don't care as much that he is ripping of DC and Phil and everyone else because they are big boys and can take care of their own shit. However, I will show my support by backing them AND I want to make sure that this asshole is drug through the mud because it is his type of shit that can make it that much harder for someone that does not know of my character or my reputation as a trainer online to trust me or to trust anyone else that is completely and 100% legitimate, respected and established. Fuck him "not giving credit". I want his ass now because of the facade he created for himself. I obviously have other things I should be doing right now but I am going to make sure that I am in this thread and this situation 100% until I am safisfied with the outcome and that doesn't mean that Ironman has to come over here. It just means that everyone needs to have their say and this thread needs to reach as many people as possible so that anyone that might try some bullshit like this in the future might think twice.

Skip


It's obvoius that Skip is illiterate. Now inspite the Fact that "THEY" are the ones who have a Problem with me, and when you have a problem with someone "Logically" you would go and address it to them at their location and that location is in the IRONMAN "SUB-FORUM" where I can always be found. This is a Right Thinking Persons' way of handling situations. But instead because of the way they "Think!" I've made an honest offer to split the debate into halves. Half at IronMagazine in my personal training "SUB-FORUM" and the other half in DOGCRAPP'S-DOGPOUNDD at IntenseMuscle. This offer still stands! 

*I WILL NOT DENY THAT I AM A PUSSY. A MAN IS WHAT HE EATS.   ** THAT MAKES SKIP A DICK: *


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 28, 2006)

*Man I think you just started world war 3. Hope you have your gloves on as your going to need them.*


----------



## WantItBad (Feb 28, 2006)

i just read in a old Muscular Development that Dante invented the Pull-up or something along those lines......in a power rack or somethign


----------



## Arnold (Feb 28, 2006)

RippedNYLifter said:
			
		

> Since Doggcrapp doesn't want to give this site traffic by debating: http://s11.invisionfree.com/Dogg_vs_Iron/index.php? You guys can use that forum, if he doesn't want to do it here.



good thinking because we are really lacking members and traffic here.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 28, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> Ok, I need to come clean because I cannot take it anymore...
> 
> I AM BOTH IRON MAN AND DOGGCRAPP!!
> 
> ...





fuck ironman and dogshit.....we got GOPRO!!!

Need I say more?


----------



## Arnold (Feb 28, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> Ok, I need to come clean because I cannot take it anymore...
> 
> I AM BOTH IRON MAN AND DOGGCRAPP!!
> 
> ...



and I am Tough Old Man, sorry everyone but I am a clinically diagnosed multiple personality.


----------



## RippedNYLifter (Feb 28, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

> What's wrong with us getting traffic, is he worried he'll lose some of his people?
> That's something he shouldn't worry about if his site is so good.
> 
> Are you a mole, a scout... what's your role in this?


I'm not on either side really. I'm just a little instigator in this. Plus, I guess I'm the one who brought this all up by posting this thread.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 28, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> "There's only so many way to permutate training and I dareay most have been tried at this point. The old joke is that, whatever you're doing now, Grimek probably did it 50 years ago. Except that it's no joke. You can look at just about any trainnig protocol being done now, and it's been used/tried at some point during the 20th century. So when I hear about the HST guys adding some partials at the end of their sets for more metabolic work; I think "Ah, like Gironda who used to advocated 6-8 'burns' when you hit failure". My combination of tension/metabolic work in the same workout is fundamentally no different than a zillion protocols that have come before. But I never claimed that it was."
> 
> -Lyle McDonald


late to the party but nice post...


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 28, 2006)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> and I am Tough Old Man, sorry everyone but I am a clinically diagnosed multiple personality.


You made me spit my whey shake all over my keyboard when I read that. Dr. DiMaggio where have you been. I need my prescription refilled.....you are a funny one and owe me a new keyboard. Should I expect payment soon?


----------



## Triple Threat (Feb 28, 2006)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> and I am Tough Old Man, sorry everyone but I am a clinically diagnosed multiple personality.



Hey, no dual IDs.


----------



## phreak (Feb 28, 2006)

i think i'm in love with the 3ig3adWolf...


----------



## P-funk (Feb 28, 2006)

phreak said:
			
		

> i think i'm in love with the 3ig3adWolf...




yea, well you just blew your cahnces with her by posting in this thread.....She fucking hates everyone that posted in this thread.  All of us. She calls up dumb asses and says we need to grow up.


----------



## Vieope (Feb 28, 2006)

phreak said:
			
		

> i think i'm in love with the 3ig3adWolf...


_Have you met min0? _


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 28, 2006)

phreak said:
			
		

> i think i'm in love with the 3ig3adWolf...



Shes Smokin..


----------



## P-funk (Feb 28, 2006)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _Have you met min0? _




also very hot.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 28, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> Shes Smokin..




She doesn't like people tha go by the handle "Mr. Biceps".


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 28, 2006)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> and I am Tough Old Man, sorry everyone but I am a clinically diagnosed multiple personality.


Hey this is great. Listen here tough old man. you can now sign in with multiple screen names and have no worries about being banned. Who would ban someone that didn't even know what he was doing it. 

Your new screen name can Be Tough Oiggamid


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 28, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> yea, well you just blew your cahnces with her by posting in this thread.....She fucking hates everyone that posted in this thread.  All of us. She calls up dumb asses and says we need to grow up.


so much for privacy 

was that english BTW???


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 28, 2006)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _Have you met min0? _


i'm actually in love with min0 and since we're all coming clean....i'm P-funk.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 28, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> so much for privacy




what were you being private about?  I believe you already said something like that in this thread before.



> i'm actually in love with min0 and since we're all coming clean....i'm P-funk.



Impossible.....I am mr. polideous.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 28, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> so much for privacy
> 
> was that english BTW???




i typed a little fast and things got messy.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 28, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> i typed a little fast and things got messy.


you have to _stroke the keys_...not beat on 'em. now go wash off.


----------



## P-funk (Feb 28, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> you have to _stroke the keys_...not beat on 'em. now go wash off.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 28, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> what were you being private about?  I believe you already said something like that in this thread before.


busted....._BALLS!_



> Impossible.....I am mr. polideous.


LIES!!!!!

one...two...three...four...i demand a thumb war


----------



## Vieope (Feb 28, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> i'm actually in love with min0


_How about me? _


----------



## P-funk (Feb 28, 2006)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _How about me? _




I'll love ya.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 28, 2006)

Vieope said:
			
		

> _How about me? _


you're too furry for me wabbit


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 28, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> I'll love ya.


cheater...


----------



## Vieope (Feb 28, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> I'll love ya.


_I am thinking about a proper response. I will get back to you when I find something. _


----------



## Vieope (Feb 28, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> you're too furry for me wabbit


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 28, 2006)

Vieope said:
			
		

>


why the long face? we could shave you .


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 28, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> you have to _stroke the keys_...not beat on 'em. now go wash off.


Oh your good today. I think we all have found our match.


----------



## phreak (Feb 28, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> yea, well you just blew your cahnces with her by posting in this thread.....She fucking hates everyone that posted in this thread.  All of us. She calls up dumb asses and says we need to grow up.




oh well...  i was more lust than love anyway  

hey wait- she posted in here...  this doesn't mean she hates herself does it?


----------



## Vieope (Feb 28, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> why the long face? we could shave you .


_I have no idea what that means but I am hoping it has some sexual meaning. _


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 28, 2006)

phreak said:
			
		

> oh well...  i was more lust than love anyway


_Hook Ups 101:_

NEVER say this to a chick's face. now you've offended me. prepare to pay the consequence.




...........and i thought you truly cared


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 28, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> She doesn't like people tha go by the handle "Mr. Biceps".



What about "Mr.Balls"?


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 28, 2006)

Go DOGGCRAPP!


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 28, 2006)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> Go DOGGCRAPP!


I can't rootbeer for either party, as I rootbeering for myself and my new training called  (Go)Tough(Pro).


----------



## Creator_11 (Feb 28, 2006)

http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=14141


----------



## IRON MAN (Feb 28, 2006)

*soxmuscle*



			
				soxmuscle said:
			
		

> Tough ridiculed my body, my knowledge, and the way i train.  Are you calling Tom ignorant!?



soxmuscle, if Tough did in fact ridicule your physique, you can bet your bottom dollar I would tell him it was ignorant of him.

No one should adversely criticize anyones physiques. It's very un-professional to ridicule others for something they are striving to perfect.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 28, 2006)

Creator_11 said:
			
		

> http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=14141


Hello Intense Muscle administrator. You must miss me. How are you today. Haven't heard from you in about 10 minutes or so since you said let keep the topic on Iron Man at Intense Muscle.

*By the way if you need a good deal on supplements, check out my signature. *

Tough


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 28, 2006)

*Soxmuscle*

find the post where i did this and copy and paste it here. 

Originally Posted by *soxmuscle*
_Tough ridiculed my body, my knowledge, and the way i train.  

Tough
_


----------



## Creator_11 (Feb 28, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Hello Intense Muscle administrator. You must miss me. How are you today. Haven't heard from you in about 10 minutes or so since you said let keep the topic on Iron Man at Intense Muscle.
> 
> *By the way if you need a good deal on supplements, check out my signature. *
> 
> Tough




thanks but I get my supps from domestic companies 


p.s. you should checkout this place  

http://www.intensemuscle.com/store 


maybe Ironman would like a cup of coffee?


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 28, 2006)

Creator_11 said:
			
		

> thanks but I get my supps from domestic companies
> 
> 
> p.s. you should checkout this place
> ...


 
Oh I'll be sure to do that.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 28, 2006)

Creator_11 said:
			
		

> http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=14141


interesting read...


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 28, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> interesting read...


Really


----------



## Arnold (Feb 28, 2006)

everyone in this thread is....


----------



## Tough Old Man (Feb 28, 2006)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> everyone in this thread is....


you being the big cheese here, I'm wondering if you can you ban yourself?


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Feb 28, 2006)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> everyone in this thread is....


----------



## The Monkey Man (Feb 28, 2006)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> everyone in this thread is....


----------



## phreak (Feb 28, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> _Hook Ups 101:_
> 
> NEVER say this to a chick's face. now you've offended me. prepare to pay the consequence.
> 
> ...



 

i take it all back. 

olive branch, etc.?


----------



## gopro (Feb 28, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> This is really great news. We can call you Iron Dogg. This means that half of you charges $400 and the other half is free. So this means the whole Iron Dogg training is going to be split or a total of $200. Where can I sign up?



I told you....I need a rest first. Until I am ready, I just want you to do 3 sets of 10 of every exercise you know, every day of the week. But I must admit, I stole that concept from the Mike Mentzer of the bizarro world.


----------



## gopro (Feb 28, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> I like this GOPRO.


----------



## gopro (Feb 28, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> fuck ironman and dogshit.....we got GOPRO!!!
> 
> Need I say more?



Thank you my man!! That's right...we got gopro!! Can I get an AMEN!


----------



## gopro (Feb 28, 2006)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> and I am Tough Old Man, sorry everyone but I am a clinically diagnosed multiple personality.



Hmmmm, I thought you were Chris Mason


----------



## Tough Old Man (Mar 1, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> I told you....I need a rest first. Until I am ready, I just want you to do 3 sets of 10 of every exercise you know, every day of the week. But I must admit, I stole that concept from the Mike Mentzer of the bizarro world.


So the more time in the gym the better.  
This is not going to leave me a lot of time to post. I wonder if that will be ok with everyone. I am popular you know.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Mar 1, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> I just saw another from Intense sign up. Hope Robert has enough ban width for all these newbies coming from there. Hello Badman. Didn't you just post this over at Intense sometime within the last 30 min's.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> *I really hate you (TOM) and Iron Man... and if Creator does me that favor and i get your guys addresses lol... fun times are ahead... I really dont see the point why Iron Man think that Dante will brush off the dust of Iron man's falling apart ego... the guy fucken uses smiles and colors because simple people like those moderators or elite members there cant even begin to understand wtf you guys are saying..
> *
> ...


sooooo, the current game is to bash every new person that logs in from intense???


----------



## phreak (Mar 1, 2006)

god damn TOM, why don't you stop with the f'ing drama?  maybe if you would stfu this shit would stop.

you've brought it on yourself with your teenager bullshit.

leave the talk to training.  this is a training forum right?


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Mar 1, 2006)

phreak said:
			
		

> this is a training forum right?


not quite sure anymore...


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 1, 2006)

I and 13ig13ad know every IP address in this thread.


----------



## fireinthehole (Mar 1, 2006)

*I've earned the right to reply...*

So, after reading all 23 pages and 400 plus replies, I must say that this is all just an argument of a combination of small dick syndrome, and analysis paralysis. 

Let's face it, most of the people on this board are not newbies into the training forum, but many of us including me are always interested in learning about the newest techniques, and even the older techniques to see how we can incorporate them into our workouts. 

You can't tell it often times by the grammar and the teenager arguments on this forum, but all of us here are here because WE WANT TO LEARN!!!! There is no perfect answer to training, because eveyone's body is different, and we all have our strengths and weaknesses.

With that being said, can someone just spell it out with me some of the highlights and lowlights of DC training versus/compared/similarities to Iron Man's?

I really don't know much about either, and would like to see if it makes sense to do more investingating etc! Whew, finally a reply!


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 1, 2006)

I would like to tell you, but I don't read fad programs, so I know nothing about them.  Just know the forms of peridiozation and their pros and cons, the appropriate rep ranges and how to construct a program around them, switch tempo up if you like, slower eccentric for hypertrophy.  Much more than that and you are just pissing in the wind.


----------



## P-funk (Mar 1, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> I would like to tell you, but I don't read fad programs, so I know nothing about them.  Just know the forms of peridiozation and their pros and cons, the appropriate rep ranges and how to construct a program around them, switch tempo up if you like, slower eccentric for hypertrophy.  Much more than that and you are just pissing in the wind.




yea for real.  all you have to know is how to apply concepts.  These retards think they wrote the book on training.  Majoritiy of people see good results on a "fad" program like doggshit or ironman HIT because their progress has stalled doing the shitty program they have been doing for the past year.  The simple change in training split, sets, reps, rep tempo and training organization is just what they need to make improvements and break out of the slup we call accomodation.  In general, no matter what they do to change up their program would have illicited similiar gains.  So, when someone says they got big doing Doggshits program I just figure that they knew nothing about training properly to begin.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Mar 1, 2006)

phreak said:
			
		

> god damn TOM, why don't you stop with the f'ing drama? maybe if you would stfu this shit would stop.
> 
> you've brought it on yourself with your teenager bullshit.
> 
> leave the talk to training. this is a training forum right?


Lets see. Our administrator said this on this same thread.

*"and I am Tough Old Man, sorry everyone but I am a clinically diagnosed multiple personality*. "

How about you telling him the same thing newbie.


----------



## phreak (Mar 1, 2006)




----------



## Tough Old Man (Mar 1, 2006)

phreak said:
			
		

>


Nice come back. What I expected. Oh well .....and that I guess would be Dogg Crapp Training. I can say this. P-Funk, I have a  lot of respect for you both as a person and a trainer as your very  knowledgeable. But your not always right. I was stuck in a rut and I tried DC  training and it really didn't do much for me. Now I can't say that about Iron  Man's. I know you dislike both of them for some reason, but until you try  something, I don't know how you can put either one of there training down like you have.  My 2 cents

*I need to add the following*

When I said I tried DC training and it didn't really help me, in defense of Dante it was most likely cause i couldn't follow it correctly. You have to have a spotter and I don't as I workout at home alone. Hey it may be the greatest routine in the world if worked correctly. 

PT


----------



## BigDyl (Mar 1, 2006)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> everyone in this thread is....




*Dimaggi0wn3d X Infinity!!!!*


----------



## BigDyl (Mar 1, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> I and 13ig13ad know every IP address in this thread.




True Story.  Too bad if you contacted the actual "ISP"  you'd wonder why you had reached the NSA.


----------



## Triple Threat (Mar 1, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> I was stuck in a rut and I tried DC  training and it really didn't do much for me. Now I can't say that about Iron  Man's.



Assuming the two methods have similarities (or else this debate on who stole from whom would not exist), what are the differences between the two that gave you different results?


----------



## maniclion (Mar 1, 2006)

I've been eating dog shit for 2 weeks now and haven't noticed any improvements in strength, except for the strength of my breath.


----------



## Doublebase (Mar 1, 2006)

What is going on in this thread?  I remeber the first page.  What is everyone arguing about?  Why is Robert banning everyone?


----------



## Tough Old Man (Mar 1, 2006)

Doublebase said:
			
		

> What is going on in this thread?  I remeber the first page.  What is everyone arguing about?  Why is Robert banning everyone?


You are kidding I hope cause you missed the part where he said it would only apply to those that ask "why is Robert Banning everyone?"

Hurry re-edit and delete that part before he see's your post.


----------



## P-funk (Mar 1, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Nice come back. What I expected. Oh well .....and that I guess would be Dogg Crapp Training. I can say this. P-Funk, I have a  lot of respect for you both as a person and a trainer as your very  knowledgeable. But your not always right. I was stuck in a rut and I tried DC  training and it really didn't do much for me. Now I can't say that about Iron  Man's. I know you dislike both of them for some reason, but until you try  something, I don't know how you can put either one of there training down like you have.  My 2 cents
> 
> *I need to add the following*
> 
> ...





like dale said....they are re-hashing a bunch of old training methods and organizing it and calling it their own and fighting over it.  Anyone can organize a training program if you lean how to manipulate variables.  these two ass fucks act like they invented the wheel and their program is nothing new.  You were probably in a rut because you were training like a bb'er and not structuring your training...plain and simple.  Then you tried their thing and it had new stuff....rest pause, dynamic stretching (or whatever you want to call what they are doing), forced reps, etc....It wasn't that you hadn't done this stuff before but now, they took it from you just throwing it into a routine and they organized it.

Louie Simmons put together what is called the "westside template".  I am sure if you talk to him about it he will tell you it isn't his.  It was just an organization of training ideas from russian and bulgarian weightlifters.  If he can set aside his ego and claim that he pretty much "stole" all of his ideas why can't these morons.


----------



## DOGGCRAPP (Mar 1, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> like dale said....they are re-hashing a bunch of old training methods and organizing it and calling it their own and fighting over it.  Anyone can organize a training program if you lean how to manipulate variables.  these two ass fucks act like they invented the wheel and their program is nothing new.  You were probably in a rut because you were training like a bb'er and not structuring your training...plain and simple.  Then you tried their thing and it had new stuff....rest pause, dynamic stretching (or whatever you want to call what they are doing), forced reps, etc....It wasn't that you hadn't done this stuff before but now, they took it from you just throwing it into a routine and they organized it.
> 
> Louie Simmons put together what is called the "westside template".  I am sure if you talk to him about it he will tell you it isn't his.  It was just an organization of training ideas from russian and bulgarian weightlifters.  If he can set aside his ego and claim that he pretty much "stole" all of his ideas why can't these morons.



Oh god, get over yourself ratboy. I have never seen anyone post so much who has no clue what he's even talking about. You said you had no knowledge of what my methods are about previously and now your an expert on the ins and outs of them? You dont know what my methods are but you have posted on this thread over 50 times? Nothing is worse than someone who preaches and preaches just because he loves to hear himself talk. Ive been around since the early 90's talking about this stuff in magazine and internet form (2000) ...and for the 
2nd or 3rd time (since you only shoot your mouth off and dont read anything) *read post 294 on page 15* again. Yes 10 pages ago I answered the question already. Then you can go back to your 15 post a day habit and thinking that being a moderator named P-funk on a bodybuilding board actually means your someone of incredible stature and consequence. If you paid attention at all, this whole thing came about because I give credit every step of the way with the forefathers in weightlifting before me and the other guy (IM) doesnt. So you go right ahead and continue being the guy who jumps into an argument about bananas when its actually about taxes.


----------



## P-funk (Mar 1, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> *Nothing is worse than someone who preaches and preaches just because he loves to hear himself talk*.




lol...you just described yourself.

I don't care that I am a moderator on a bbing forum.  It means nothing to me.  I could careless about bodybuilding actually.

I glanced at your stupid program.  I wouldn't waste my time reading a bunch of garbage.

I love you fuck nuts that think you are bad asses because you have a fucking gym PHD...."I have been a bb'er for 30yrs!  I have been talking this stuff since the 90's on the internet and in the magazines.  I have been sucking cock for steroids since the 80's."  hahahha.....get over it....you are pathetic.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Mar 1, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> Oh god, get over yourself ratboy. I have never seen anyone post so much who has no clue what he's even talking about. You said you had no knowledge of what my methods are about previously and now your an expert on the ins and outs of them? You dont know what my methods are but you have posted on this thread over 50 times? Nothing is worse than someone who preaches and preaches just because he loves to hear himself talk. Ive been around since the early 90's talking about this stuff in magazine and internet form (2000) ...and for the
> 2nd or 3rd time (since you only shoot your mouth off and dont read anything) *read post 294 on page 15* again. Yes 10 pages ago I answered the question already. Then you can go back to your 15 post a day habit and thinking that being a moderator named P-funk on a bodybuilding board actually means your someone of incredible stature and consequence. If you paid attention at all, this whole thing came about because I give credit every step of the way with the forefathers in weightlifting before me and the other guy (IM) doesnt. So you go right ahead and continue being the guy who jumps into an argument about bananas when its actually about taxes.


Oh boy I'm fucked. I think I agree with almost everything here you just said. I see a train coming and it's going to run over me for saying the above. 

Tough


----------



## Doublebase (Mar 1, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> You are kidding I hope cause you missed the part where he said it would only apply to those that ask "why is Robert Banning everyone?"
> 
> Hurry re-edit and delete that part before he see's your post.


no


----------



## Arnold (Mar 1, 2006)

Doublebase said:
			
		

> Why is Robert banning everyone?



that was a joke.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 1, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> lol...you just described yourself.
> 
> I don't care that I am a moderator on a bbing forum.  It means nothing to me.  I could careless about bodybuilding actually.



For shame.  Being a mod on a BBing board is actually a point of pride for me, I have it on my business cards.

I am going to go look at the Dogg Crapp method right now, an honest critique is coming.  I just need to get a beer first.


----------



## CowPimp (Mar 1, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> For shame.  Being a mod on a BBing board is actually a point of pride for me, I have it on my business cards.
> 
> I am going to go look at the Dogg Crapp method right now, an honest critique is coming.  I just need to get a beer first.



I read through it a long time ago.  I don't recall any breakthrough information contained in the protocol guidelines.  It probably works well, but I don't see anything special about it.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Mar 1, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> For shame.  Being a mod on a BBing board is actually a point of pride for me, I have it on my business cards.
> 
> I am going to go look at the Dogg Crapp method right now, an honest critique is coming.  I just need to get a beer first.


That will be fine. Drinking a beer while reading up on DC works. But as soon as you start the program, the beer is out. Now you have no excuses the next time i kick your ass. You won't be able to tell everyone that the only reason the old man thrashed you was cause you were drunk.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Mar 1, 2006)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> that was a joke.


You spoil everything. I just about had this guy going back to re-edit his post.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 1, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> For shame.  Being a mod on a BBing board is actually a point of pride for me, I have it on my business cards.
> 
> I am going to go look at the Dogg Crapp method right now, an honest critique is coming.  I just need to get a beer first.



Ok, I saw 2 things...

Mentzer
1 exercise per *muscle group*

Then I stopped reading.  Not that HIT is bad, it is only 1 very small piece of a very large puzzle.  It is a component of a much larger picture, not something to base a whole routine off of.  Perhaps I was reading an old version, here is the thread...

http://www.muscleticket.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t178.html


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 1, 2006)

> I read through it a long time ago. I don't recall any breakthrough information contained in the protocol guidelines. It probably works well, but I don't see anything special about it.



That's because it isn't special.  I tried it, got decent results, stayed on it too long and then switched.  It certainly doesn't involve any breakthrough research or paticularly innovative ideas.  The methodology may INVOLVE good ideas, but nothing innovative.  I look above and see 3 or 4 of the most knowledgable and educated people above stating what everyone knows - it's simply a rehash of principles that people have been using for probably a century.  Anyone who would pay for such material is naive, gullible, & foolish.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 1, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> That will be fine. Drinking a beer while reading up on DC works. But as soon as you start the program, the beer is out. Now you have no excuses the next time i kick your ass. You won't be able to tell everyone that the only reason the old man thrashed you was cause you were drunk.




I would hit you so many times you would think you were surrounded.


----------



## P-funk (Mar 1, 2006)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> That's because it isn't special.  I tried it, got decent results, stayed on it too long and then switched.  It certainly doesn't involve any breakthrough research or paticularly innovative ideas.  The methodology may INVOLVE good ideas, but nothing innovative.  I look above and see 3 or 4 of the most knowledgable and educated people above stating what everyone knows - it's simply a rehash of principles that people have been using for probably a century.  Anyone who would pay for such material is naive, gullible, & foolish.




gotta love duncan.


----------



## GFR (Mar 1, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> I have been sucking cock for steroids since the 80's."


OMG, I knew it


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Mar 1, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> I have been sucking cock for steroids since the 80's.


i just threw up in my mouth a little...


----------



## Doublebase (Mar 1, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> i just threw up in my mouth a little...



thats hot.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 1, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> i just threw up in my mouth a little...




How do you think P-funk lubed it up.


----------



## P-funk (Mar 1, 2006)

*Part of my critque*

This will take awhile to post all of this so please don't post until I give the okay. I probably won't be able to put up all this info up tonight so be patient. Lets get to it by starting off with the DC MANUAL
DC TRAINING MANUAL
Introduction to Philosophy:
*
Yay!!  can't wait to jump right in!
*

A typical workout for the masses is (lets use chest for an example) doing a body part once every 7 days (once a week)and sometimes even once every 9 days or more. This concept came to the front due to recovery reasoning and I agree with most typical workouts your going to need a great deal of recovery. Here???s the problem---lets say you train chest once a week for a year and you hypothetically gain 1/64 of an inch in pectoral thickness from each workout. At the end of the year you should be at 52/64 (or 13/16). Almost an inch of thickness (pretty good). To build muscle we are trying to lift at a high enough intensity and load to grow muscle but with enough recovery so the muscle remodels and grows. The problem is everyone is loading up on the volume end of training and its taking away from the recovery part of it. You can train in a way so you can train chest 3 times every nine days and you will recover and grow faster than ever. If you train chest 3 times in 9 days you are now doing chest roughly 136 times a year! So instead of 52 growth phases you are now getting 136 growth phases a year. I personally would rather grow 136 times a year than 52. At a hypothetical 1/64th of an inch per workout you are now at 136/64 (or roughly 2.1 inches of thickness). So now your growing at roughly 2 and a half times as fast as normal people who are doing modern day workouts are. Most people train chest with 3 to 4 exercises and wait the 7-9 days to recover and that is one growth phase. I use the same 3 to 4 exercises but do chest 3 times during those 9 days and get 3 growth phases. Everyone knows a muscle either contracts or doesn???t--you cannot isolate a certain part of it (you can get into positions that present better mechanical advantages though that put a focus on certain deep muscle fibers)--for example incline presses vs. flat presses. One huge mistake beginning bodybuilders make is they have a "must" principle instilled in them. They feel they "must" do this exercise and that exercise and this many sets or they won???t grow.


*absolutley fucking genious!! I can't believe you actually thought of this yourself.*

Base Program:
How I set bodybuilders workouts up is I have them pick either their 3 favorite exercises for each body part or better yet the exercises they feel will bring up their weaknesses the most. For me my chest exercises are high incline smythe machine press, hammer seated flat press and slight incline smythe press with hands very very wide----this is because I look at my physique and I feel my problem area is upper and outer pecs---that is my focus. Whenever I train someone new I have them do the following --4 times training in 8 days---with straight sets. Sometimes with rest pause sets but we have to gauge the recovery ability first.

*wow!  No fcking way!  train 4 times in 8 days!  A true revolutionary.....better get to work on those upper and outer pecs.*

Day one would be Monday and would be:
Chest
Shoulders
Triceps
Back width
Back thickness

Day two would be Wednesday and would be:
Biceps
Forearms
Calves
Hamstrings
Quads

Day three would be Friday and would be:
Chest
Shoulders
Triceps
Back width
Back thickness
(Sat+sun off)

Day four would be the following Monday and would be
Biceps
Forearms
Calves
Hamstrings
Quads 
*
gotta make sure you give those bi's and tri's proper treatment.  Better work them before legs...your largest muscles in your body you stupid fuck.*

And so on Wednesday Friday Monday Wednesday etc.
Stay with me here--

*I'm tryin' to stay with you but your writing really fucking sucks and you are stupid so far.*

Stay with me here--You???re only doing one exercise per muscle group per day. Your doing your first favorite exercise for chest on day one--your doing your second favorite exercise for chest on the next chest workout and your third exercise for chest on the next. You???re hitting every body part twice in 8 days. The volume on everything is simply as many warm-up sets as you need to do- to be ready for your ONE work set.

*No way!!  High intensity training!!  I can't believe you were the one that invented that!  Better tell arthur jones....phew, glad we cleared that up. *

The volume on everything is simply as many warm-up sets as you need to do- to be ready for your ONE work set. That can be two warm-up sets for a small muscle group or five warm-up sets for a large muscle group on heavy exercise like rack deadlifts. The ONE work set is either a straight set or a rest pause set (depending on your recovery abilities again). For people on the lowest scale of recovery its just that one straight set---next up is a straight set with statics for people with slightly better than that recovery----next up is rest pausing (on many of the of movements) with statics for people with middle of the road recovery on up. Three key exercises are picked for each body part (hypothetically we will use flat dumbell bench press, incline smythe bench press, and hammer press) ---USING ONLY ONE OF THOSE EXERCISES PER WORKOUT you rotate these in order and take that exercise to it's ultimate strength limit (where at that point you change the exercise and get brutally strong on that new movement too). That can happen in 4 weeks or that can happen 2 years later but it will happen some time (You cannot continually gain strength to where you eventually bench pressing 905 for reps obviously)---Sometime later when you come back to that original exercise you will start slightly lower than your previous high and then soar past it without fail--- As you progress as a bodybuilder you need to take even more rest time and recovery time. READ THAT AGAIN PLEASE: AS YOU PROGRESS AS A BODYBUILDER IN SIZE AND STRENGTH YOU NEED TO TAKE EVEN MORE REST AND RECOVERY TIME. Example: My recovery ability is probably slightly better now than when I started lifting 13-14 years ago but only slightly...but back then I was benching 135lbs and squatting 155lbs in my first months of lifting. Now I am far and away the strongest person in my gym using poundages three to six times greater than when I first started lifting. With my recovery ability being what it is both then and now do you think I need more time to recover from a 155lb squat for 8reps or a 500lb squat for 8reps? Obviously the answer is NOW! This past year I have been really pounding the slag iron as heavy and hard as I can in preparation of trying to get onstage at about 252lbs early next year. That means a hard 300lbs to me off-season and I???m pretty damn close to that right now. The gains I have made in strength this past year even at my lifting level are nothing short of phenomenal (in my mind). With those strength gains comes the ratio of recovery factor. Whereas a year ago I was training 2 on one off 2 on one off and getting away with it with extreme stretching etc....about 2 months ago I took an extra day off on the weekend because of work obligations and I just started to feel somewhat tired because of how heavy my weights were. If my strength keeps progressing at this level I am eventually going to have to train Monday Wednesday Friday Monday Wednesday Friday like outlined above simply because I am reaching poundages that are so far and away above my beginning weights-I have to take the necessary recovery precautions. I am still training as often as I possibly can per body part--that???s key to me. The more times I can train a body part in a year???s time and recover will mean the fastest growth possible! I???ve done the training a body part every 10 days system in the past and while recovering from that--the gains were so slow over time I got frustrated and realized the frequency of growth phases(for me)was to low. I want to gain 104 times a year instead of 52--the fastest rate that I can accumulate muscle (YET AGAIN WITHIN ONES RECOVERY ABILITY-I CANT SAY THAT ENOUGH)


*wow, rest pause!!  static contractions!!  Fuck me...are you Joe Weider...Oh no no...I get it...you are the guy that taugh Joe Weider!!!*



In the past 4-5 years that I have been slowly changing my philosophies of training I???ve been gaining so fast the last couple of years it???s been pretty amazing.

*phew...good thing you have been changing your philosohies.  otherwise people would catch on that you are ripping people off and calling things YOUR  philosophies...oh waite....busted...haha.
*

Alternate Programs:
MON TUES THURS FRI- For people who have (above normal) recovery ability (hitting body parts twice in that time-or twice in 7 days)

MON WEN FRI MON- For pretty much the norm of society with average recovery ability--hitting body parts twice every 8 days

MON TUES THUR FRI- With body split into three parts-for people with hectic schedules these are extremely short workouts yet stay roughly in the same scheme as the above.
On this schedule someone would group body parts like the following: 

*pretty smart!  so let me get this...if I recover well i can go 4 times a week.  if not only three?  great...got it....glad you cleared that up.  i am so happy that you came up with this genious program.  you are good shit doggshit.*

DAY ONE:
Chest
Shoulders
Triceps
(Stretches)

DAY TWO:
Biceps
Forearms
(Stretches)
Back width
Back thickness

DAY THREE:
Calves
Hamstrings
Quads
(Stretches)

*and switching to push/pull/legs....never hear of that one before!!*


----------



## P-funk (Mar 1, 2006)

I'll get to the rest later.  I am tired and I have some REAL STUFF to read before i hit the hay.


----------



## DOGGCRAPP (Mar 1, 2006)

Do you mods even read my posts? Where the hell did I say I reinvented bodybuilding or weightlifting? Do you think anyone is going to come out with something from this point forward that hasnt been semi-done before? Nobody will. I put together what i felt worked best for people training/diet/ wise and some of them are my unique ideas alone and some or them are derived from longtime concepts (and I give credit continually to those). I never coined the term "DC training" or ever wanted to be part of some new initialed training concept. I didnt ever want to even train people. If you guys actually took the time to research things you would of found out how everything came about (simply word of mouth by other people, it spread from site to site to site and all over the place because it was working for people--simple as that) Why is it called Doggcrapp training when my name is Dante? Because I left a small post on a 50 member board one day with the anomynous name of Doggcrapp back in 2000. People on that board used my opinions, gained muscle mass and it spread by word of mouth. So fault that it didnt stay on that small board like I intended it to....Six years later thousands of posts others have put up, hundreds of pictures, pro's and top amateurs using it, I guess it works a little bit


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 1, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> *and switching to push/pull/legs....never hear of that one before!!*




I have actually heard of this once before.


----------



## P-funk (Mar 1, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> Do you mods even read my posts? Where the hell did I say I reinvented bodybuilding or weightlifting? Do you think anyone is going to come out with something from this point forward that hasnt been semi-done before? Nobody will. I put together what i felt worked best for people training/diet/ wise and some of them are my unique ideas alone and some or them are derived from longtime concepts (and I give credit continually to those). I never coined the term "DC training" or ever wanted to be part of some new initialed training concept. I didnt ever want to even train people. If you guys actually took the time to research things you would of found out how everything came about (simply word of mouth by other people, it spread from site to site to site and all over the place because it was working for people--simple as that) Why is it called Doggcrapp training when my name is Dante? Because I left a small post on a 50 member board one day with the anomynous name of Doggcrapp back in 2000. People on that board used my opinions, gained muscle mass and it spread by word of mouth. So fault that it didnt stay on that small board like I intended it to....Six years later thousands of posts others have put up, hundreds of pictures, pro's and top amateurs using it, I guess it works a little bit




ugh...you just love to hear yourself type....you aren't even a real memeber here.  leave.  go back to team skip "i didn't take that d-bol".


----------



## DOGGCRAPP (Mar 1, 2006)

Do you realize what you just posted was from that first post 6 years ago on that small board--LOL--thats not a manual--thats actually a cut and paste that the owner of this board Joachim actually did from posts I wrote on boards and put it into a "DC training manual" that he hosted on this site. Never knew it was going to be thrown into book form. 

Ive never made a DC manual.


----------



## P-funk (Mar 1, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> Do you realize what you just posted was from that first post 6 years ago on that small board--LOL--thats not a manual--thats actually a cut and paste that the owner of this board Joachim actually did from posts I wrote on boards and put it into a "DC training manual" that he hosted on this site. Never knew it was going to be thrown into book form.
> 
> Ive never made a DC manual.




whatever....I am sure your program has not changed that much since that.....


oh wait, let me guess...you added bosu ball and wobble board training!! 


GET THE FUCK OUT YOU LAME MOTHER FUCKER.


----------



## DOGGCRAPP (Mar 1, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> ugh...you just love to hear yourself type....you aren't even a real memeber here.  leave.  go back to team skip "i didn't take that d-bol".




why am my 22 posts threatening your 17 thousand? This is how much you have a clue. Do you think that just maybe there might be 2 guys on this planet named Skip? Could it be at all possible?

Skip from Intensemuscle is from colorado
Skip Lacour is from california

Stephen Hawkins has nothing on you P-funk


----------



## P-funk (Mar 1, 2006)

DOGGCRAPP said:
			
		

> why am my 22 posts threatening your 17 thousand? This is how much you have a clue. Do you think that just maybe there might be 2 guys on this planet named Skip? Could it be at all possible?
> 
> Skip from Intensemuscle is from colorado
> Skip Lacour is from california
> ...




no, your posts don't threaten anyone.  you are stupid.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 1, 2006)

Who is Stephen Hawkins?


----------



## P-funk (Mar 1, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Who is Stephen Hawkins?




probably Mr. Biceps.  I hear he stole the wobble board that Doggshit invented for people to do DB hammer curls on.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Mar 1, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> no, your posts don't threaten anyone.  you are stupid.


Well looks like I'm not the only person around here that has taken up with Psycho Dad. 

Since Iron Man And Dante has shown up Patrick you have been on a warpath. So something must be of a threat. You have dogged both of these guys to no end. 

Go ahead hit me with both barrels.

PT


----------



## Arnold (Mar 1, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Who is Stephen Hawkins?



you have never heard of him? 

www.hawking.org.uk


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 1, 2006)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> you have never heard of him?
> 
> www.hawking.org.uk



So Stephen Hawkins is related to Stephen Hawking?  Must be on the mother's side.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 1, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Well looks like I'm not the only person around here that has taken up with Psycho Dad.
> 
> Since Iron Man And Dante has shown up Patrick you have been on a warpath. So something must be of a threat. You have dogged both of these guys to no end.
> 
> ...




I think it is the complete lack of a threat to be honest.

But, if either one wants to make a routine for someone too lazy to make their own, it saves me time so I am for it.  I no longer respond to the threads titled "Make me a program" or "Want a challenge".  It's tough love, going thru life ignorant is no way to live, neither is having something given to you.  If you come up with something and it is wrong, I am more than happy to help, you gave it an effort and it shows that you have at least a little bit of knowledge and drive.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Mar 1, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> So Stephen Hawkins is related to Stephen Hawking? Must be on the mother's side.


I need a beer to figure this one out. Also what you said earlier was one of the funnier one's I heard. *Hit me so fast I think I'll be surrounded.  *

*Heard of the 3-6-9 treatment. *This is what you'll get if you fuck with old toughy. Your going to need 3 Doctors, 6 nurses and 9 hours to remove my size 14 5E foot from your ass. 


Toughy


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 1, 2006)

The 3-6-9, not bad. Do you know the 8675309 treatment.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 1, 2006)

I haven't seen this much passion in a thread since the days of Johnnnnny...hey, who was it that outted him again?  

As far as DC training or any other method goes, I'd much prefer to teach someone how to organize their own routine around their own inherent abilities, instead of just take one pre-made and apply it.


----------



## topolo (Mar 1, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> I don't understand what the hubub is all about.  Most of the people coming up with "new" concepts are taking them from someone else's work anyway.



Not true, every single training concept I use is original.


----------



## WantItBad (Mar 1, 2006)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> As far as DC training or any other method goes, I'd much prefer to teach someone how to organize their own routine around their own inherent abilities, instead of just take one pre-made and apply it.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 1, 2006)

topolo said:
			
		

> Not true, every single training concept I use is original.




I continue to have large volume ejaculate.


----------



## shiznit2169 (Mar 1, 2006)

lol children


----------



## P-funk (Mar 2, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Well looks like I'm not the only person around here that has taken up with Psycho Dad.
> 
> Since Iron Man And Dante has shown up Patrick you have been on a warpath. So something must be of a threat. You have dogged both of these guys to no end.
> 
> ...




good one TOM.  you are a genious.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Mar 2, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> good one TOM. you are a genious.


Hey what I said was true. Now in response to your comment "not sure about genius," but more like a genie. Hey you know my initials. (P)LENTY (T)ALENTED.


Tough


----------



## phreak (Mar 2, 2006)

i smell vinegar and water...


----------



## Tough Old Man (Mar 2, 2006)

phreak said:
			
		

> i smell vinegar and water...


Well at least your doing your best to use your senses, but unfortunately they suck.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Mar 2, 2006)

phreak said:
			
		

> i smell vinegar and water...


you smell douche?


----------



## phreak (Mar 2, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> you smell douche?



that's right

i'd like to request that TOM not be allowed to post any more until he develops a physique that even remotely resembles that of someone who lifts weights.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Mar 2, 2006)

phreak said:
			
		

> that's right


it's not me...


----------



## phreak (Mar 2, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> it's not me...



definitely not...


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 2, 2006)

phreak said:
			
		

> i smell vinegar and water...




Hey, get your own material.


----------



## phreak (Mar 2, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Hey, get your own material.



i didn't tell you i invented that one?


----------



## Tough Old Man (Mar 2, 2006)

phreak said:
			
		

> that's right
> 
> i'd like to request that TOM not be allowed to post any more until he develops a physique that even remotely resembles that of someone who lifts weights.


Yes it's tough to look like a 20 yr old when your 53. I'll post some more pic's in a few months when I can bench over 100 lbs. Shit I better go to a sporting good store and buy a couple more lbs of weight. Right now my set only goes up to 75 lbs. Hey Phreak nice job as it might give me more determination to look better.  Have a training routine for me sonny?

Tom


----------



## phreak (Mar 2, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Yes it's tough to look like a 20 yr old when your 53. I'll post some more pic's in a few months when I can bench over 100 lbs. Shit I better go to a sporting good store and buy a couple more lbs of weight. Right now my set only goes up to 75 lbs. Hey Phreak nice job as it might give me more determination to look better.  Have a training routine for me sonny?
> 
> Tom



here's one:

get off all the AAS except for a small HRT dose.  you're going to end up with a prostate the size of a grapefruit and 16" arms.  sound worth it?  test and tren at 53???  not too bright.

someone who has been training for 18 months has no business being on AAS anyways, i don't care how much you supposedly used in the 70's and 80's.

concentrate less on bbing forums and more on your diet.

judging by your pics the current regimen isn't working too well, the only part of you that looks like you are on AAS is your swollen red head.

start there.

oh yeah, you have a severe case of ILS.  it must be hell walking through doors.  the only advice i have for you here is to think "arms down at my sides, arms down at my sides."


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 2, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Yes it's tough to look like a 20 yr old when your 53.
> 
> Tom




Bwahahahhaahhahahahahahaha

Funniest post ever.


----------



## Creator_11 (Mar 2, 2006)

Congrats P-funk on being an Intternet Tough Guy!

 


I just don't understand how mods like yourself are so disrespectful to guys who obviously accomplished more in this game then you ever have. And if you don't care so much about bbing or being a mod of a bb forum, then why are you a mod in the first place?


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 2, 2006)

Creator_11 said:
			
		

> I just don't understand how mods like yourself are so disrespectful to guys who obviously accomplished more in this game then you ever have.




What has been accomplished, a subpar training program that was essentially based offof other people's stuff.  Not saying Dante didn't put some hard work into it, but working bodyparts and utilizing one training methodology is so 5 years ago.


----------



## P-funk (Mar 2, 2006)

Creator_11 said:
			
		

> Congrats P-funk on being an Intternet Tough Guy!
> 
> 
> 
> ...






great post.  He has accomplished a lot....


----------



## gopro (Mar 2, 2006)

Holy shit... 

Everyone just shut the f%ck up already and close this thread down. There is nothing constructive going on here, and it is just a waste of time at this point.  

Time to eat, train, and grow....all of this wasted typing is making everyone catabolic!!  

Enough already!!


----------



## BulkMeUp (Mar 2, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> ...all of this wasted typing is making everyone catabolic!!


Is that _your _theory?


Sorry, i had to ask


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 2, 2006)

No, he stole it from me.  I came up with that theory years ago.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 2, 2006)

Thread of the decade.  This even beats the thread that outted Johnnny


----------



## juggernaut2005 (Mar 2, 2006)

all I see is 3-5 old farts arguing.  This shit is making time fly at work 

*passes mudge the popcorn*


----------



## BulkMeUp (Mar 2, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> No, he stole it from me.  I came up with that theory years ago.


P-Funk told me you got the idea from him.


----------



## GFR (Mar 2, 2006)

Creator_11 said:
			
		

> Congrats P-funk on being an Intternet Tough Guy!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


True stroy, once P-funk hit me with a left hook through the internet and knocked 5 of my teeth out, and Dante  come over and performed dental surgery on me for free because he is smarter than a doctor and also has higher morals


----------



## Decker (Mar 2, 2006)

Threads such as this one were the reason I joined this forum in the first place.  Whatever it is that's trying to be said here is gold.  I still don't think it rivals the blindly ignorant perseverance of the Johnnny gems though.


----------



## Arnold (Mar 2, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> So Stephen Hawkins is related to Stephen Hawking?  Must be on the mother's side.



LMAO, a typo on the name I suppose?


----------



## Arnold (Mar 2, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> you smell douche?



wow, you're a dirty little bad girl aren't you? (nice!)


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 2, 2006)

No, she's a 13ad girl.


----------



## The13ig13adWolf (Mar 2, 2006)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> wow, you're a dirty little bad girl aren't you? (nice!)





			
				Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> No, she's a 13ad girl.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Mar 2, 2006)

phreak said:
			
		

> here's one:
> 
> get off all the AAS except for a small HRT dose. you're going to end up with a prostate the size of a grapefruit and 16" arms. sound worth it? test and tren at 53??? not too bright.
> 
> ...


Sorry sonny but my arms are 19" right now. Hey i did buy some more weights today and will try to max out tom with 80lbs. I know that only 15 more lbs then you can bench, but I'm on my way up. 

Maybe I should take down my picture that is over a yr old. Hell I didn't start training until I was almost 52 yrs old. I weighed 320 lbs and had 34% B/F. So I'm more less satisfied on what I have accomplished so far. Wonder what you will look like when your my age? Oh wait I'm so sorry as your not going to live that long sonny.


----------



## CowPimp (Mar 2, 2006)

Poopoo Peepee McFuckaroo.

Sorry, that somehow seemed appropriate in this thread...


----------



## Arnold (Mar 2, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

>



will you post more pics?


----------



## Tough Old Man (Mar 2, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> Holy shit...
> 
> Everyone just shut the f%ck up already and close this thread down. There is nothing constructive going on here, and it is just a waste of time at this point.
> 
> ...


 You have to be kidding. CFP went over a 100k in post. Again this thread starts off in regards to the person responsible for the above. This is great and may surpass CFP. Dante your going to be twice as popular as you are now. Two longs threads has a habit of doing that for people. Sticky this puppy and watch it grow to unlimited bounds unknown to man.  Dante you need to run for governor of California. May as well have to bodybuilders as Governor.


----------



## soxmuscle (Mar 2, 2006)

Here's My Theory:

IRON MAN and DOGGCRAPP are both flaming homosexuals and have done eachother in the butt on several occasions.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Mar 2, 2006)

Honestly, am i the only one who thinks TOM is intimidating??  I mean, ad hominem attacks aside, if I saw that dude in a bar I woudn't be effin around....when I'm that age, I hope I look that good.

Keep it up, tough.


----------



## Dale Mabry (Mar 2, 2006)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> Honestly, am i the only one who thinks TOM is intimidating??  I mean, ad hominem attacks aside, if I saw that dude in a bar I woudn't be effin around



You shouldn't be hanging in gay bars anyway.


----------



## Tough Old Man (Mar 2, 2006)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> Here's My Theory:
> 
> IRON MAN and DOGGCRAPP are both flaming homosexuals and have done eachother in the butt on several occasions.


Well a 17 yr old who know's absolutely nothing about either man's training. Now you the nerve to talk shit about them and call them homosexuals,  but yet if a man puts a nickle in your ear, your teeth fold.


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## Duncans Donuts (Mar 2, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> You shouldn't be hanging in gay bars anyway.



"To deny our own impulses is to deny the very thing that makes us human." - Mouse


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## Dale Mabry (Mar 2, 2006)

"You dropped a quarter!"  -Tough Old Man


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## soxmuscle (Mar 2, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Well a 17 yr old who know's absolutely nothing about either man's training. Now you the nerve to talk shit about them and call them homosexuals,  but yet if a man puts a nickle in your ear, your teeth fold.



Translate this to english, please.

I read that entire thread that p-funk posted and mocked, just as I did.  My knowledge of the routine(s) is fine.


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## w.a.r_32 (Mar 2, 2006)

this thread is by far the most entertaining thing on the net.


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## Tough Old Man (Mar 2, 2006)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> Honestly, am i the only one who thinks TOM is intimidating??  I mean, ad hominem attacks aside, if I saw that dude in a bar I woudn't be effin around....when I'm that age, I hope I look that good.
> 
> Keep it up, tough.


LOL....Thanks Double D. A few years back I was a good guy to have with you in a bar if trouble came your way. Now I'm getting older and still have a little fun but try to keep it cool. 

Hey brother Dale the only reason Double d and I was in that bar was to help get you out of there before you got your ass kick


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## Alaric (Mar 2, 2006)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> I read that entire thread that p-funk posted and mocked, just as I did.  My knowledge of the routine(s) is fine.



Actually, p-funk only posted a small portion of the actual routine.

Still waiting for him to post out the rest of the critique.


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## Dale Mabry (Mar 2, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Hey brother Dale the only reason Double d and I was in that bar was to help get you out of there before you got your ass kick



That still doesn't explain why you were making out with that fat dude.


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## Tough Old Man (Mar 2, 2006)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> *1) Translate this to english, please.*
> 
> *2) I read that entire thread that p-funk posted and mocked, just as I did.  My knowledge of the routine(s) is fine.*



1) This will be easy sonny. Someone has a nickle and they place it in your ear, your teeth fold down to take the big salami.

2) Just like every teenager, knows everything. Your knowledge of routines is fine. Bullshit. How the fuck can it be fine when every human being walking this planet is always looking for a better or more improved way to get them to the next level.


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## Tough Old Man (Mar 2, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> That still doesn't explain why you were making out with that fat dude.


What did you expect. Your diet sucks..


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## Dale Mabry (Mar 2, 2006)

My diet is great


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## shiznit2169 (Mar 2, 2006)

lol this is ridiculous

the only thing that matters is what YOU think works best for you. If someone gets results using doggcrapp training, then he/she should keep using it. It may not work for someone else but IRON MAN training may work for that person. Hell, if someone can get results doing chest and biceps everyday, then by all means keep doing it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

This thread reminds me of high school drama. A bunch of babies crying about who invented this and who invented that. Most of this shit was invented a long time ago. Just put together a routine that works best for you and stick with it. Change up the variables over time if you hit a plateau. 

I am also not siding with anyone. So if you're gonna flame me, don't flame me for the wrong reasons. Just shutup and lift weights.


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## Tough Old Man (Mar 2, 2006)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> lol this is ridiculous
> 
> the only thing that matters is what YOU think works best for you. If someone gets results using doggcrapp training, then he/she should keep using it. It may not work for someone else but IRON MAN training may work for that person. Hell, if someone can get results doing chest and biceps everyday, then by all means keep doing it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
> 
> ...


I'll flame you, you little punk. . Hell you have become one of my favorites on this site and you know it.  Oh hell there is no topic.


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## GFR (Mar 2, 2006)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> Honestly, am i the only one who thinks TOM is intimidating?? I mean, ad hominem attacks aside, if I saw that dude in a bar I woudn't be effin around....when I'm that age, I hope I look that good.
> 
> Keep it up, tough.


I have met Tough 2x and I will tell you he is the last guy on this site I would want to fight...and I'm 15 years younger than he is......I would just run for my life


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## Tough Old Man (Mar 2, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I have met Tough 2x and I will tell you he is the last guy on this site I would want to fight...and I'm 15 years younger than he is......I would just run for my life


The only reason you say that is cause I feed your ass good when your here.


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## Dale Mabry (Mar 2, 2006)

shiznit2169 said:
			
		

> lol this is ridiculous
> 
> the only thing that matters is what YOU think works best for you. If someone gets results using doggcrapp training, then he/she should keep using it. It may not work for someone else but IRON MAN training may work for that person. Hell, if someone can get results doing chest and biceps everyday, then by all means keep doing it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
> 
> ...




Ghey!


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## Tough Old Man (Mar 2, 2006)

Lets be honest you guys. There are only 4 great routines out there that will get you to the next level. In alphabetical order

1) Dogg Crapp's

2) Gopro's

3) Iron Man's

4) Old Toughy's 

Now if I left any others out, it's because they ain't worth the time to post.



PT


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## Dale Mabry (Mar 2, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Lets be honest you guys. There are only 4 great routines out there that will get you to the next level. In alphabetical order
> 
> 1) Dogg Crapp's
> 
> ...




I am actually surprised put them in the correct alphabetical order.


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## Tough Old Man (Mar 2, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> I am actually surprised *(YOU)* put them in the correct alphabetical order.


As I stated to Patrick that PT stood for 
(P)LENTY (T)ALANTED. Before I reached 50 yrs of age, it stood for  
(P)lenty (T)ough.


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## soxmuscle (Mar 2, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> 1) This will be easy sonny. Someone has a nickle and they place it in your ear, your teeth fold down to take the big salami.
> 
> 2) Just like every teenager, knows everything. Your knowledge of routines is fine. Bullshit. How the fuck can it be fine when every human being walking this planet is always looking for a better or more improved way to get them to the next level.



I still have no idea what this is in context to.  I don't give a flying fuck about either IRON MAN or DOGGCRAPP.  I think they are both very childish, foolish, and everything in between.

Am I not entitled to my opinion?


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## soxmuscle (Mar 2, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> As I stated to Patrick that PT stood for
> (P)LENTY (T)ALANTED. Before I reached 50 yrs of age, it stood for
> (P)lenty (T)ough.



My initials are PT aswell.  They stand for Plenty Talented.


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## Tough Old Man (Mar 2, 2006)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> I still have no idea what this is in context to.  I don't give a flying fuck about either IRON MAN or DOGGCRAPP.  I think they are both very childish, foolish, and everything in between.
> 
> Am I not entitled to my opinion?


Let me ask you this. Has either Iron Man or Dante ever insulted you. the answere is no. 

So are you intitled to your opinion. But when you start calling someone homosexuals who has never disrespected you neverless you not even knowing them, then you have crossed the line. 

Soxmuscle, your probably a nice young man. But I have to say this. Iron Man and especially Dante have a hugh following. You may end up with a few on your side, but will lose the battle at the end. 

Just be carefull Lad who you insult. Me I'm ok to insult as my only following is my 6 dogs.


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## soxmuscle (Mar 2, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Let me ask you this. Has either Iron Man or Dante ever insulted you. the answere is no.
> 
> So are you intitled to your opinion. But when you start calling someone homosexuals who has never disrespected you neverless you not even knowing them, then you have crossed the line.
> 
> ...



Well it was more of a joke, but IRON MAN has threatened to ban me several times.

Either way, i'm not really insulting you, I just happen to think both these guys, who you've stated i don't know, are acting inappropriately and both are equally to blame for this gem of a thread.


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## Tough Old Man (Mar 2, 2006)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> Well it was more of a joke, but IRON MAN has threatened to ban me several times.
> 
> Either way, i'm not really insulting you, I just happen to think both these guys, who you've stated i don't know, are acting inappropriately and both are equally to blame for this gem of a thread.



Sox listen here. 

1) it's only a thread

2) There is only 4 people on this site that can ban you. 

2a) Robert / Administrator - owner
2B) Gopro / Super moderator
2c) DG806 / Super moderator
2d) Mudge / Super moderator


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## GFR (Mar 2, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Sox listen here.
> 
> 1) it's only a thread
> 
> ...


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## Tough Old Man (Mar 2, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

>


Yes I forgot about foreman "The donkey dick rules"


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## Mudge (Mar 2, 2006)

IAreBaboon


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## Tough Old Man (Mar 2, 2006)

Mudge said:
			
		

> IAreBaboon


Oh shit I missed one. I thought he was a moderator. Sorry Baboon

Hey Mudge. How come when you run that name in the search under members, it says no matches


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## IRON MAN (Mar 3, 2006)

gopro said:
			
		

> Holy shit...
> 
> Everyone just shut the f%ck up already and close this thread down. There is nothing constructive going on here, and it is just a waste of time at this point.
> 
> ...



Agreed.

Look guys I want to say something here. I am starting to get embarrased by the way some are starting to act.

1. P-FUNK your way out of line calling me a ass fuk. Your envy is shining through like a bright light. I wont be bullied by the likes of you. If you dont believe me then "PUT ME TO THE TEST!  I'll have to agree with Creator and DC in that you are the most immature and vulgar MOD I have yet to run across. Your making IronMagazine look bad by acting so childishly. 



2. DOGCRAPP has made several errors in judgement on his behalf. He had my identity wrong, and he feels I have stolen a 11-15 rep rest-pause from him. I would like to show a side by side comparison between my routine, his routine, and any other routines he feels I may have robbed. Inorder to do so I will need a list of the training routines I have supposedly stolen from!!! Then maybe just maybe DOGCRAPP will begin to see where he has been wrong. Listen Dante, just as P-FUNK can't seem to grasp the obvious- that he comes off as being a jerk, you are having a similar problems  by thinking you have known something to have occurred that has not. I have not stolen anything of yours and it was low down to go plant false evidence on as many sites that would allow you to do so. I semi-copied the first starting line out of one of your articles over at the AR board because you kept accusing me over and over again of doing something I was not. I finally got fed up and did that in spite. Looking back I should have not stooped down to your leve. What is it going to take for you to see the light?   

I don't know what your program consist of seeing its been changed. So theres no possible way I could have copied your training program even I had wanted to do so. To RECAP; "we have no way of knowing who came up with specifics" and who really gives a damn.  My training program is not rocket science but it is backed up by scientific evidence. Are my training methods as good as it gets? I think yes they are but my methods are very simplistic in nature and thats why I know they work well. I go into great detail in explaining my program but I am not showing anything that has probably not been tried before and neither are you. Did you catch that????? My training is Back to the Basics 101. I think some have been led astray from the foundation of what bodybuilding is all about and they're in need of finding their way back home. It's a given fact certain variables will need to be customized a bit for each ones individula needs but the manipulations are small and very simple to follow. I feel that's way my program has worked  so well for everyone who have given it a streneous attempt. Do I believe there are other programs out there that produce comparable results as that of the IRON MAN HIT"? I would imagine so. 


*Theres not a whole lot more than can be discussed.**This thread is comparable to a bad episode of SUPERMAN. * If you continue to drag my good name through the mud then expect to have a fight on your hands. Treat me with respect and I will do the same for you. My attitude will remain unchanged if you contiune to go behind my back on other websites telling these lies about me. In fact it will eventually light a fire under my and MR.BS' ass that will cause the two of us to go on a rampage hitting every website on the net.

*NOTE: The ball was just rolled onto your side of the court. What you do with that ball may be a very important decision.*


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## IRON MAN (Mar 3, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Sox listen here.
> 
> 1) it's only a thread
> 
> ...



TOM ignore this highschool punk. Hes exxagerating and I even sent his 2 pms trying to be his friend. *IGNORE HIM AS HE SHOULD BE IGNORED!*


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## CowPimp (Mar 3, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> I have not stolen anything of yours and it was low down to go plant false evidence on as many sites that would allow you to do so. I semi-copied the first starting line out of one of your articles over at the AR board because you kept accusing me over and over again of doing something I was not. I finally got fed up and did that in spite. Looking back I should have not stooped down to your leve. What is it going to take for you to see the light?



Bahahaha.  What a load of nonsense.  Do you realize how badly this wreaks of BS?


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## min0 lee (Mar 3, 2006)




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## NEW_MASS (Mar 3, 2006)

min0 lee said:
			
		

>


 IronMagazine is full of characters , you all keep me laughing


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## NEW_MASS (Mar 3, 2006)

looks like Robert may need to clean house with the junk/spam Mods  and get some REAL SUPER MODS  up in here, what do you think Robert


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## IRON MAN (Mar 3, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Bahahaha.  What a load of nonsense.  Do you realize how badly this wreaks of BS?



Yes I do realize it sounds a bit akward if you were not been in my thread at Professional Muscle. Where you there? No! ToughOldMan, New Mass and several others knew what happened because they where there. DOGCRAPP kept acussing me of copying his rest-pause technique and if you read what I wrote above you can clearly see thats not he case. He kept sending his buddies over there to try and destroy my thread and eventually he pissed me off to the point I started out an article that had similar overtones. It was done in spite during a time he was attacking me and I'll bet money that over 50% of the people on this board would have done the same thing. It was a vengful act as I have stated and nothing else. Believe what you want to believe but thats the way it went down. If you choose to believe a lie then so be it.  

NOTE: *IRON MAN vs DOGCRAPP* 

1. DC preaches 1 set to failure twice a week and I believe in doing 3 sets twice a week. 

2. DC believes in Extreme Stretching and I do not like this type of stretching as  its bad for the joints. 

3. DC performs multiple sets within a rest-pause until failure is reached in the 11-15 range. I teach one needs to hit failure in the 11-15 range "FIRST" and then use only 1 rest pause as opposed to his multiples. 

4. He doesn't believe in isolation exercises but I do for lagging body parts.  

5. His split does not change after a 3 week phase yet mine does.

6. He teaches cruising and I do not believe in cruise but taking complete lay offs. 

7. I preach one must hit all 3 sub-categories of type 2 fibers. He does not teach a holostic rep range.

8. He believes that natural trainers need the same large amounts of protein as the chemically enhanced. I do notagree because steroids enhance protein synthesis.

9. The way he splits his bodyparts up are different than mine.

10. He believe deadlifts can be substituted for rows and I do not.

11. DC does not believe in using rest-pause for training the legs but the IRONMAN program does on weeks 4-6.

12. DC teaches static holds and other Mentzer principles that I wouldnt follow in a million years.

13. He believe large dosages of testosterone are whats making Pro Bodybuilders so large but in my experience they are using a synergistic approach.   

*NOTE:* I could add more but I feel that is ample evidence showing how different our training techniques look on paper. *THEY ARE NOTHING A LIKE!*


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## IRON MAN (Mar 3, 2006)

NEW_MASS said:
			
		

> looks like Robert may need to clean house with the junk/spam Mods  and get some REAL SUPER MODS  up in here, what do you think Robert



Agreed.


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## Tough Old Man (Mar 3, 2006)

NEW_MASS said:
			
		

> looks like Robert may need to clean house with the junk/spam Mods  and get some REAL SUPER MODS  up in here, what do you think Robert


Oh I disagree totally here with you mass. Iron Magazine has some of the finest Super mods on the net. You'll never find them any better then Gopro, DG806 and Mudge. If you'll notice these guys have stayed away from this thread. 

It's the moderators, not super moderators you may be thinking of. 

PT


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## KC Lifter (Mar 3, 2006)

This is just my opinion but I really don't see how someone can say Ironman's routine is a copy from DC.  I only see a couple of things that they both have and that's far from copying.  Untill you can patent anything to do with a training routine this case is closed.


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## Arnold (Mar 3, 2006)

NEW_MASS said:
			
		

> looks like Robert may need to clean house with the junk/spam Mods  and get some REAL SUPER MODS  up in here, what do you think Robert



nope, I am happy with all of my mods, but thanks for the concern.


----------



## NEW_MASS (Mar 3, 2006)

Tough Old Man said:
			
		

> Oh I disagree totally here with you mass. Iron Magazine has some of the finest Super mods on the net. You'll never find them any better then Gopro, DG806 and Mudge. If you'll notice these guys have stayed away from this thread.
> 
> It's the moderators, not super moderators you may be thinking of.
> 
> PT


True i should have said moderators, your right the Super Mods have been showing they are on another level


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## NEW_MASS (Mar 3, 2006)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> nope, I am happy with all of my mods, but thanks for the concern.


well let them know TOUGH TOM is always available_(due to being retired)_ to fill one of their slots if they can't keep their shit together


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## Tough Old Man (Mar 3, 2006)

NEW_MASS said:
			
		

> well let them know TOUGH TOM is always available_(due to being retired)_ to fill one of their slots if they can't keep their shit together


Remember I have multiple personalities. Robert to have the same amount of mod's would have to get rid of three to make room for just me. I don't know of three bad mod's on here.


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## Tough Old Man (Mar 3, 2006)

IRON MAN said:
			
		

> NOTE: *IRON MAN vs DOGCRAPP*
> 
> 1. DC preaches 1 set to failure twice a week and I believe in doing 3 sets twice a week.
> 
> ...


Iron Man some of these are not totally correct. The only reason I can say that as I have use the DC system in the pass. I type in bold


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## Arnold (Mar 3, 2006)

I do not see any reason for this thread to go on any longer...


----------

