# Need more shoulder/abb/forarm exercises



## suraj (Dec 28, 2011)

At the moment my workout plan is this: 
all exercises 3x8-12 if I can lift more I move onto heavier weights, keep in mind this is all being done at home so I only have a bench barbell and dumbells.

Day 1 Chest and Tris:
Flat bench
Incline bench
Db flyes
Skull crushers
Overhead db extension

Day 2 Back and Bis:
Deadlift
Pull ups(if you have something to do them with)
Barbell rows
DB rows
Barbell curls (close/mid/out)
Hammer curls

Day 3 Shoulders:
Military press
Side laterals
Bent over rear raises 
Shrugs

Day 4 Legs:
db or bb sqauts
hack squat 
SLDL
db lunges

Day 5 Abs/Forearms
Reverse frip barbell curl
Behind back forearm curl(sorry dont know name)
Crunch's with weights behind head
Sorry dont know name of this one it is where you do a crunch while moving legs so oposite knee touches oposite elbow (for abs) with weight behing head.


Day 1 2 and 4 make me feel like I have done a propper workout, I work on them for about an hour and my arms feel like they have done allot and it is great but on day 3 the shoulders it only lasts about 20-30 mins and even with very heavy weight's I feel like I have done nothing much, do you know any more exercises I could stick in there to get it up to about an hour which will actualy target all my shoulder muscles, day 5 I have not tested yet, I thought I would try it this week but cant think of any more exercises, any ideas please?

Please remember I am a begginer so dont really want to be doing stuff like 5X5 yet because I have been told that will be more effective after a few months.


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## fitnessallday (Dec 28, 2011)

Military press with a full range of motion with your elbows going below parallel would hit them hard.


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## Ted Shred (Dec 28, 2011)

Big fan of hand grippers here.  I've been using the Heavy Hands ones for only about 6 weeks and the  results are amazing.  In fact, when I first got my set (100/150/200/250)  my left hand wasn't even strong enough to close the 100.  I  immediately ordered a Captains of Crunch "sport" gripper (60 or 80, I can't remember) but, after doing negatives and concentric with the 100, by  the time it arrived in the mail I was starting on 150's with my left.   I'm starting the 200 with my left now and 250 with my right (kinda, I can do a bunch of 200 with my RH but can't close the 250 even once).  And I can notice some nice hypertrophy in my forearms as well. I rarely even bother with wrist curls anymore.

However, I'm not convinced that the HH weight #'s are accurate. I've read that before about Heavy Hands, and that CoCs are more consistent.  Also, the CoC gripper I have has a bigger span (better for long bony fingers like mine) and I like the knurling a bit better.  They're more expensive but, if I had to do it over, I'd go for a set of CoC's.


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## Cork (Dec 28, 2011)

The reason you do not feel satisfied with a forearm/ab day should be obvious.  Small muscle groups, low energy requirement, no feeling of fatigue like you would have after a real workout (your days 1, 2, and 4).

As far as not feeling satisfied on a shoulder day, maybe you have bad form or something, but I know my shoulders would be fried after those 4 lifts.  Maybe you just need to change your reps/sets.  I'd go heavier with compound lifts.  3x8-12 is pretty boring.  Don't be afraid to go heavy for less reps.


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## suraj (Dec 29, 2011)

Thanks for the info, really helped, so, do handgipers do a much better job than wrist curls? Do they target all the muscles in the forearms? Is there any more exercises you can suggest please?


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## Kenny Croxdale (Dec 29, 2011)

suraj said:


> At the moment my workout plan is this:
> all exercises 3x8-12 if I can lift more I move onto heavier weights, keep in mind this is all being done at home so I only have a bench barbell and dumbells.
> 
> Day 1 Chest and Tris:
> ...



*Shoulder Exercises*

You doing more than enough shoulder work.  In fact, you going to beat the crap out of them if you persist with this program.  

*Day 1 Anterior Deltoid *

You're heavily working the front deltoid with flat bench and incline bench.  The anterior deltoid is also involved with flyes and the overhead tricep extension. 

*Day 2 Posterior Deltoid*

Pullups, barbell rows and dumbbell rows work the posterior deltoid.  Some involvement of the posterior deltoid take place with the deadlift...pulling the bar back.  

*Day 3 MORE Deltoid Work*

Military press, Side laterals, Bent over rear raises...a third day in a row of shoulder work.  

Three days in a row of shoulder exercises makes no sense.  You're going to beat them in to submission rather than grow them.  


suraj said:


> Day 4 Legs:
> db or bb sqauts
> hack squat
> SLDL
> ...



*Ab Exercises*

Part of the abdominals function is to keep you upright.  The abs are heavily involved in overhead pressing, deadlifts, stiff leg deadlifts, etc.  

Day 5 provides you with enough ab work.  

*Forearm Work*

Holding on to a bar works the forearms.  Curls and expecially deadlifts work the forearms.  

Day 5 along with your other days gives you enough forearm work. 



suraj said:


> ...do you know any more exercises I could stick in there to get it up to about an hour which will actualy target all my shoulder muscles, day 5 I have not tested yet, I thought I would try it this week but cant think of any more exercises, any ideas please?



*Number 1: More Is NOT Better*

You DON"T need more shoulder exercises. 

*Number 2: An Hour Is NOT The Magic Number*

There is NOTHING magic about an hour of training.  

*Number 3: Intensity*

The intenstiy of an exercise is more important than how much time you spend exercising. 



suraj said:


> Please remember I am a begginer so dont really want to be doing stuff like 5X5 yet because I have been told that will be more effective after a few months.



*A Beginner*

The learning curve is fairly steep for a beginner.  Learning the hard way works but it not very effective. 

One of the majory keys is to NOT over do it.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## suraj (Dec 29, 2011)

Great advice, thanks, so should I continue with this plan or should I cut it down a bit, will it be okay to do the shoulders like you said 3 days in a row or will they never grow? I enjoy lifting so I like doing it 5 times a week, is there any way I can adjust this for maximum mass building? If you think it will work better if I cut down on the exercise will I still have to eat as much on off days?
Do you think I am overdoing this and not giving my muscles enough rest? Could you please tweak the workout plan so that it is more effective.

Thanks


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## epic1es (Dec 29, 2011)

Couple nights a week i screw n unscrew decking nails into a 2×4 while watchin tv...sounds retarded but it shreds my forearms

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## Cork (Dec 29, 2011)

epic1es said:


> Couple nights a week i screw n unscrew decking nails into a 2??4 while watchin tv...sounds retarded but it shreds my forearms
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk



I've ALWAYS found manual labor to be more beneficial for forearm development than gym work.  Take a look the next time you go to the mechanic.  The old guys have forearms bigger than their upper arms.


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## suraj (Dec 29, 2011)

I was a mechanic for 2 years, did it when I left school, but now studying, I had big forearms, could see all my veins poping out, used to wonder because I never worked out and still had big forearms, unluckily I am too busy to be working in a garage now and I had been on a very low cal diet (STUPID THING TO DO) and lost all my muscle, now have skinny forearms and cant lift much...I used to be able to move engines and gearbox's and wheels around all day long when I was 16 (I was a apprentice so I had to do ALLOT of the manual work) but now I am 18 no muscle because of a stupid diet and excess fat....I hate it, wish I never went on that diet.


Back onto topic, anyone know how I can alter my workout to get maximum bulk?
Also I just did my legs a few mins ago, I could hack squat like 20 more kg than I could normal squat, does a hack squat work on different muscle groups?


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## suraj (Dec 29, 2011)

Any Ideas on the workout plan?


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## jstagich97 (Dec 29, 2011)

In order for a muscle to grow, it has to tear and repair. If you work your chest and triceps one day, maybe try the next day with legs and biceps, then take 3rd day off. This will allow your arms to repair before tearing again with back and shoulders.  Rest is important.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Dec 29, 2011)

suraj said:


> Great advice, thanks, so should I continue with this plan or should I cut it down a bit,



*Ectomorph*

Being 5'10" and 135 lbs defines you as an ectomorph, a skinny guy with a small bone structure. 

*Less Is More*

Ectomorphs obtain gains better with less volume.  

*Cut It Down*

Yes, cutting it down is going to work better for you. 



suraj said:


> ...will it be okay to do the shoulders like you said 3 days in a row or will they never grow?



Working shoulders three isn't a good idea. 



suraj said:


> I enjoy lifting so I like doing it 5 times a week, is there any way I can adjust this for maximum mass building? If you think it will work better if I cut down on the exercise will I still have to eat as much on off days?



*5 Days A Week*

I understand your enjoying five days a week.  However, you will make better gains as an ecotomorph by cutting your days and your volume back.  

*Eating*

Diet is the one big key to gaining weight.  You've got to "eat as much on off days".  



suraj said:


> Do you think I am overdoing this and not giving my muscles enough rest?



Rest is when your muscles grow.  It is another one of the big keys to increasing muscle mass.  

*The "Three Bs"*

1) Eat Big

2) Lift Big

3) Rest Big



suraj said:


> Could you please tweak the workout plan so that it is more effective.



There are a varaties of ways to write your program.  This is one....

*Example:*

Day 1 Pull Day 
Deadlift
Pull ups, Barbell Rows OR DB Rows (Pick One)
Barbell curls OR Hammer curls (Pick One)

The biceps are worked hard with lat exercises.  That because the biceps are a smaller muscle group, the weak link in the chain. 

Day 2 Off

Day 3 Push Day
Flat bench
Incline Press
Skull crushers OR Overhead db extension

The Flat Bench and Incline Bench work the triceps.  The triceps as the biceps are the smaller muscle group, the weak link.  Thus, they are overloaded with lat movements. 

Day 4 Off

Day 5 Legs
db, bb sqauts OR hack squat (Chose One)
(I am not a fan of Hack Squats)
Ab Work.  Pick one exercise.

Your workout should be about 45 minutes.  

Kenny Croxdale


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## suraj (Dec 29, 2011)

Wow great workout plan, thanks
Just a few things I am confused with, you say workout should be 45 mins but the day 5 only has 2 workouts which would probably get done in about 15-20 mins, will that be okay?

Also one more thing, I know this isnt the diet forum but since you are helping me with the workout could you check my diet also please:

I eat 2500-2700 cals every day 40/40/20 ratio I consume 250g carbs (99% complex carbs) 250g protein (90g comes from whey and rest from meats and lentils) 70g fats (healthy fats)

My usualy day diet is like this:

1 scoop whey (in my whey ingredients it contains Dexatrose, people say it is okay in the morning wanted you opinion, it contains 20g protein)

1/2 cup oats 1 cup skim milk with splenda

lentil soup

banana

workout
2 scoops of whey 1 tsp creatine after workout

tuna sandwich 130g tuna 2-4 whole grain bread or maybee some lentils

some more lentils
meybee more lentils if any left over

some sort of lean meat or good source of protein

100g of low fat cottage cheese

I have nuts as snacks throughout the day and usually some egg whites and whole eggs if fats are not at 70g yet, my protein shak contains dex, should I have it in the morning? should I be having some more complex carbs post workout even though my shake contains dex?
Is 250g pro and 250g carbs too much?Also do my calories sound too high for me, I just used a calorie calculator but got many different answers to this question.
Also I heard I am ectomorph and another one combined since I am skinny fat, does that make any difference to anything?

Sorry for all the questions but you have helped me so much so far just wondering if you can finish it off for me creating a perfect plan I can follow.

Thanks

EDIT: I was on a very very low cal diet (1200) and that is why I lost allot of muscle and that made me go into starvation mode keeping allot of fat back, atleast thats what I think, I just wanted to add this just incase it helped.


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## suraj (Dec 30, 2011)

Any suggestions?


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## suraj (Dec 30, 2011)

I have done some more research and found that I am a combination of ectomorph and endomorph, but...I will tell you how I think I am ecto and gained fat...I worked in a garage a year ago as an aprentice, physical work but I ate rubish all day long, usualy for lunch I used to have a sausage bacon sandwich or kebab and chips, allways junk allmost every day....after a while I started cuting back a bit and then got too strict with the diet and took it very low comining 1200 cals with 9miles of joging or HIIT 3 days a week!!!

In conclusion I think I messed up my metabolism allot!!! first of all by eating all that junk for about 1-2 years...and then to cut I did a stupid fad diet...

The workout plan you designed is GREAT and I really appreciate you helping me, could you just look at my diet and other questions and help me out please?


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## suraj (Dec 30, 2011)

just been told begginers should eat at mantainanace which is apparently 2300 for me and I will loose the skinny fat look, they say you can loose fat and build muscle as a begginer, and skinny fat you got to eat at mantainance at a 50/25/25 ratio carbs/fat/pro they say dont need 2g per lbs for pro you only need about 0.8-1 and you need complex carbs, I am a total newb I can only bench up to about 40kg shoudl I follow this?

It says for me I need 
362g carbs
98g pro
87g fat

I think this might be correct because since I am skinny fat I dont have much muscle anyways so I dont see why I would need like 250g of protein but I am not sure and would like your opinions.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Dec 30, 2011)

suraj said:


> Wow great workout plan, thanks
> Just a few things I am confused with, you say workout should be 45 mins but the day 5 only has 2 workouts which would probably get done in about 15-20 mins, will that be okay?



*45 Minutes or Less*

Ok, let go with you working being 45 minutes or less.  

*Leg Workout*

If you want, add another leg movement.  

*Example: *

1) Barbell Squat

2) Step Ups (Great exercises), Leg Press or Hack Squat.  Your choice.  

3) Ab Work 



suraj said:


> I eat 2500-2700 cals every day 40/40/20 ratio I consume 250g carbs (99% complex carbs) 250g protein (90g comes from whey and rest from meats and lentils) 70g fats (healthy fats).



*Protein*

Based on your body weight, there is NO reason for you to consume 250 gram of protein.  

Protein recommendations for training varies between 1.2 to 2 grams per kilo of body weight

*Doing The Math*

Your protein consumption is 4 gram per kilo of body weight.  That is BEYOND you needs.  

The Testosterone Diet: The Ultimate Meal Plan To Ramp Up Your Body's Levels Of Testosterone | SimplyShredded.com

Research shows that testosterone production occurs best when your carbohydrates are higher than your protein intake.  

"A higher ratio of carbs-to-protein some-where around 2:1 is best results in higher testosterone levels." 

It is true in the lab and in real life. 

*Health Fats*

Saturated fats SHOULD be included in this catagory.  

Saturated fats are a vital component of hormone production. 

Restriction of saturated fats from a diet is _"Nutrition Sucide." _ 

"Be sure to consume poultry, beef, fish and pork. Red meat is particularly good due to its higher levels of saturated fat and zinc, a mineral associated with higher T levels."  (See Jim Stoppani article posted above!)

*Fat Grams*

You NEED to increase your fat intake.  

*2700 Calories Per Day*

That fine.

*Protein Intake*

Cut it BACK.  Make it about 25% of your caloric intake. 

2700 Calories Per Day X 24% = 648 Caloires = 162 gram of Protein. 

*Carbohdrates*

Increase your intake.  Make it about 54% of your caloric intake.

2700 Calories Per Day X 48% = 1298 Calories = 324 grams of Carbohydrates.

364 grams of Carbohydrates give you a little over a 2:1 Carb to Protein Ratio.

*Fats*

Increase you intake.  What is left over from your protein and carbodhyrate intake is 28% for fats.  

2700 Calories Per Day X 28% = 756 Calories = 84 grams of Fats. 

One third of fats NEEDS to be Saturated Fat.



suraj said:


> 1 scoop whey (in my whey ingredients it contains Dexatrose, people say it is okay in the morning wanted you opinion, it contains 20g protein)



Dextrose and whey before, during and after your workout are a great combintion.  



suraj said:


> I have nuts as snacks throughout the day and usually some egg whites and whole eggs



EAT the yokes, too.



suraj said:


> Also I heard I am ectomorph and another one combined since I am skinny fat, does that make any difference to anything?.



NO one who's 135 lbs at 5'10" is fat. 



suraj said:


> I was on a very very low cal diet (1200) and that is why I lost allot of muscle and that made me go into starvation mode keeping allot of fat back, atleast thats what I think, I just wanted to add this just incase it helped.



I read your previous post before making any replies.  So, I am aware of most of the information your presented. 

That is how I knew you were 5'10" and 135 lbs. 

What confused me is why you put your weight in inchess and your weight in pounds, since you in England.  

I gotta say, American standards of measurement are the dumbbest thing that I have ever seen...inches, pound, ounces, acres...

Kenny Croxdale


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## suraj (Dec 30, 2011)

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! 
Helped me so much I dont know how to thank you, I am going to follow everything you said, I have a few little questions and then I will be 100% clear with everything,

should I be taking my whey on off days even though it contains dex allready in it? On workout days I was planing 1 scoop before 1 scoop while workout out and 1 scoop after with creatine will that be enough?

What should I be lifting like, 3 sets 8-12 reps be okay?
Should I lift till faliure on maximum weight?
Abb exercises - just one or should I do 2 or 3 that target different parts of abs like bicicles, crunch and a one for lower abs?
Should I add any neck exercises and militarry press on push day?

Also you meantioned eat same on off days so I should eat 2700 cals all the time no matter on or off?
Also to sum it all up I need about 350g carbs about 160g pro and about 80g fat
So about a 50/20/30 carb/pro/fat?

Since I am a begginner will I loose some fat while I am on here or is the traditional bulk/cut the same for begginers?

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP


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## suraj (Dec 30, 2011)

Also been told I should have coffee or green tea before workout, will this not be needed because my pre workout drink has dex in it? Should I take it 15 mins before workout with a banana and while workoing out sip on my second shake and then one straight after with creatine? Sorry had to make a new reply, couldnt edit other one. Thanks


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## stewy101 (Dec 30, 2011)

There is one formula that I have always lived by when it comes to lifting and gaining muscle and that is having the right diet, supplements, and workout routine. 

      Set your goals first and ask yourself what you want out of your body. do you want to just add a little muscle and strength? Do you want to gain mass and get as big as a house? If you want to go for the gold then you have to commit to everything and go for it. you need a good diet. Count your carbs, Fat, And Protein. The key to getting big and strong is protein, and lots of it. Break your meals down into at least 6 a day. 

      I eat 3 food meals and 3 supplement meals. For breakfast I eat oatmeal and egg whites with raisins or blueberry's with one scoop of a good protein powder mix for added protein. I also take a good Multivitamin with my breakfast in the morning along with my Creatine hydrochloride pills as well. Second meal is a Met-Rx 32gram protein plus bar or MHP Power packed pudding with 30 grams of protein 190 calories, sugar free, lactose free and low carbs. For lunch I eat a grilled chicken or tuna sandwich or grilled chicken salad with an apple. My fourth meal is a 2 scoop 44 to 50 gram protein shake. For dinner its either chicken, fish, lean beef with veggies, salad or brown whole grain rice. 

      I work out for about 1 hour and then do a 45 minute cardio session. My post workout meal is a 44 to 50 gram protein shake. I workout 4 days a week, Monday, Tuesdays, Thursday and Friday. Mondays are Back, ab's and cardio. Tuesday is shoulders, triceps, abs and cardio. Thursday is a full leg workout and cardio. And Friday is chest, biceps, abs and cardio. And remember the 2 most important and vital exercises you can do are dead lifts and squats, especially front barbell squats. These two exercises are so Vidal in that they build awesome overall strength and boost your metabolism through the roof. When doing these 2 great exercises you are using both your upper and lower body at the same time. You wont regret them I promise you. 

     Guys, Fats are not your enemy, Carbs are not your enemy. You need these in your body for energy and to live and survive. you just need to know how to put the right types of fats and carbs in your body and the right amount for what ever your weight and goals may be. If your a beginner at this then do this simple equation. Find out your exact body weight and use this formula and this will be your food intake for the day. 1 gram of protein per body weight. 1 gram of carbs per body weight. .22 grams of fat times body weight. Example: A 200 pound person= 200 grams of protein, 200 grams of carbs, 44 grams of fat. Now a more well rounded weight lifter or body builder would use this formula. 1.5 grams of protein per body weight. 1 gram of carbs per body weight and .20 grams of fat times body weight. 

     Calculate all this up with your own personal body weight and divide it by 6 meals per day, that way you will know exactly what you need to eat or drink at each and every meal throughout the day. You need to really examine and study this thoroughly if you want the results that you are looking for. There is a book out there that is very informative and gives you all the lowdown on diet and nutrition, cardio, fitness and weight training. 

    The book is called the Truth (the only fitness book you will ever need by Frank Sepe, A renowned body builder and personal trainer. It breaks it all down into the simplest forms for anyone to understand. It gives you the same formula, An in depth food chart with all your protein, carb, and fat needs. He shows you in depth cardio and weight training routines with all the exercises for every body part in colored detail. 

    remember guys it takes your body a long time to break protein down in the body. That is a good thing so it keeps your metabolism running at all times so your body can break down all the fat and carbs you put in your body. And another thing about carbs and protein. Make sure you get enough carbs in whatever protein shake you take especially post workout. after workouts. Carbs increase insulin levels and can blunt protein breakdown after your workouts. This is the major reason why carbs are added with protein shakes.

    Protein Synthesis: Carbs can increase insulin levels and slightly increase protein synthesis.Anyway's I am sure I have written a book here so far so I will let you go for now. Just remember guys with a great protein supplement comes a great diet and workout routine. Keep working hard my friends..... 

My workout regimen is bast on a 4 day a week split routine.

My workout days are Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday.

I switch All these exercises for every body part every other week to insure proper muscle growth. I also do a 5-10 minute warm-up on the treadmill before each workout day and 45 minutes after each workout.

1. Mondays= Back, Abs, Cardio. 

Back routine consist of 2 primary and 2 secondary exercises with one warm up set before:

(Sets) = 4      (Reps) = 8 to 10  heavy

Abs routine consist of 2 primary exercises.

Cardio consist of 45 minuets treadmill  and or Bike.


  A. Primary examples for back: 

    : Bent over barbell or dumbbell row.
    : Dead lift-barbell
    : Row-cable with v-handle
    : Row-Machine
    : Row-T-Bar
    : Chin Ups 
    : Dumbbell Pullovers



    B. Secondary examples for back:

    : Good morning Barbell.
    : Lat Pull-down Front Or Back.
    : Stiff-Arm Lat Pull-Down
    : Reverse-Grip Row-Cable With Strait Bar.
    : Hyperextension-Machine 
    : Shrugs-Barbell and or Dumbbell.


Abs Exercise routine : 

    : I do 4 sets of 20 reps each of machine ab crunches And 4 sets of 15 reps hanging leg Or Weighted Knee Raises.




2. Tuesday= Shoulders, Triceps, Abs, Cardio.

Shoulders consist of 2 primary and 2 secondary     exercises with 1 warm-up set before:

(Sets) = 4      (Reps) = 8 to 10 heavy

Triceps Consist Of One Primary And One Secondary 
Exercise:

(Sets) = 4      (Reps) = 10 to 12 heavy

Abs routine consist of 2 primary exercises.

Cardio consist of 45 minuets treadmill  and or Bike. 


A. Primary Examples for shoulders: 

    : Front Military Press-Barbell
    : Rear Military Press-Barbell
    : Shoulder Press -Dumbbell
    : Shoulder Press- Machine (Variation)
    : Arnold Press-Dumbbell
    : Upright row barbell or cable.

   B. secondary examples for shoulders: 

    : Front raises- dumbbell or cable.
    : side raises- dumbbell,cable or machine.
    : standing or seated bent-over raises-dumbbell
    : reverse fly-pec deck

   C. Primary examples for Triceps: 

    : Narrow-Grip Bench Press-Barbell
    : Triceps Dip Machine
    : Scullcrushers-Barbell
    : Overhead Triceps Extension-Dumbbell, Cable Or Machine
    : Two-Arm Cable Push-Down-Strait Bar
    : One-Arm Cable Push-Down

   D. Secondary Examples For Triceps:

    : Kickback-Dumbbell Or Cable
    : Bent-Over Cable Triceps Extension-Strait Bar
    : Reverse Grip Cable Pull-Down-Strait Bar
    : Triceps Push-Down-Rope

Abs routine consist of 2 primary exercises.   

    : I do 4 sets of 20 reps each machine ab crunches And 4 sets of 15 reps hanging leg Or Weighted Knee Raises.




3. Thursday= Full leg workout and cardio.

Upper legs consist of 2 primary and 2 secondary. Also 2 primary for calves.

(Sets) = 3 to 4      (Reps) = 10 to 12 heavy

Calves consist of  2 primary

(Sets) = 3     (Reps) = 10 to 12 heavy

Cardio consist of 45 minuets treadmill  and or Bike.


A. Primary-Upper leg examples:

    : Squat-Barbell And Or Dumbbell
    : Squat-Machine
    : Front Squat-Barbell
    : Hack Squat-Machine
    : Leg Press-Machine
    : Lunge-Barbell
    : Step-Up-Barbell

  B. Secondary-Upper Leg examples:

    : Leg Extension-Machine
    : Braced Squat
    : Lying Hamstring Curl-Machine
    : Seated Hamstring Curl-Machine
    : Prone Hamstring Curl-Dumbbell
    : Standing Hamstring Curl-Machine
    : Stiff-Legged Dead Lift-Barbell

  C. Calves Examples:

    : Standing Calf Raise-Barbell
    : Standing Calf Raise-Machine
    : Seated Calf Raise-Machine
    : Donkey Calf Raise-Machine
    : Toe Raise-Machine



4. Friday= Chest, Biceps, Abs and cardio

Chest Consist Of Two Primary And Two Secondary Exercises.

(Sets) = 4      (Reps) = 8 to 10 heavy

Biceps Consist  Of  One Primary And One Secondary Exercise

(Sets) = 4      (Reps) = 10 to 12 heavy 

Abs routine consist of 2 primary exercises. 

Cardio consist of 45 minuets treadmill  and or Bike.


  A. Primary Chest Exercise Examples:

    : Bench Press-Barbell,Dumbbell Or Machine
    : Incline Press-Barbell,Dumbbell Or Machine
    : Decline Press-Barbell,Dumbbell Or Machine
    : Dip-Parallel Bars

  B. Secondary Chest Exercise Examples:

    : Fly-Dumbbell Flat, Incline Or Decline
    : Fly-Cables Standing,Lying-Flat Or Incline
    : Fly-Peck Deck Lying Or Seated
    : Cable Crossovers

  C. Primary Biceps Exercise Examples:

    : Biceps Curl-Barbell 
    : Biceps Curl-Cable With Strait Bar
    : Biceps Curl-Dumbbell Standing Or Seated-(Incline)
    : One-Arm Biceps Curl-Cable

  D. Secondary Biceps Exercise Examples:

    : Concentration Curl-Dumbbell Or Cable
    : Preacher Curl Barbell-Dumbbell-Machine
    : Standing Hammer Curl-Dumbbell
    : Lying Biceps Curl-Cable
    : Standing Two-Hand Overhead Cable Curl


Abs Exercise routine : 

    : I do 4 sets of 20 reps each machine ab crunches And 4 sets of 15 reps hanging leg Or Weighted Knee Raises.


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## owwwch (Dec 30, 2011)

^^^ i like the look of that plan. seems like it would give you a good workout on each muscle group since they arent in conjunction w/ each other. for example chest and tris on the same day (if that comment makes any sense).


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## suraj (Dec 31, 2011)

Thank you stewy, that is an AMAZING plan but I think it might be a bit advanced for me at the moment.
Kenny Croxdale has spent allot of time planning the diet and workout for my specific body type and he knows exactly what I have been through so far and has made the plan so it suits me perfectly, I could do your plan but I think I might end up hurting myself at the moment since I am an Ectomorph with very little muscle and fat left over, I will follow Kenny's plan for now and maybee when I am a bit more advanced move onto yours, Thank you for spending the time to make such a great plan, I will surely follow it in the future when I am a bit more advanced.


Could anybody help me with the questions I have listed above please, they are confusing me allot.

Thank You


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## Kenny Croxdale (Dec 31, 2011)

suraj said:


> THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!
> Helped me so much I dont know how to thank you,



Your welcome. 



suraj said:


> I am going to follow everything you said, I have a few little questions and then I will be 100% clear with everything,



*"Method Change, Principles Remain The Same." *Cosgrove

What is important is that you understand principles of training.  That allows you to write your program and select the exercises.  



suraj said:


> should I be taking my whey on off days even though it contains dex allready in it?



Yes, take you whey/dextrose beverage and see how that works.  



suraj said:


> On workout days I was planing 1 scoop before 1 scoop while workout out and 1 scoop after with creatine will that be enough?



Yes.  



suraj said:


> What should I be lifting like, 3 sets 8-12 reps be okay?



Yes, perform a 4-6 week cycle using 3 sets of 8-12 repetitions.  At the end of your 4-6 week cycle, you need to change either the exercises, sets and repetitions, or both. 



suraj said:


> Should I lift till faliure on maximum weight?



*Yes and No.  *

The objective of a program is progressive overload.  As I noted before in a post.  

*Warm Up Weeks*

Think of each week as a warm up set for the next week.  

*Three Week Training Cycle Example: *

Week 1: Easy Session.  Think of this as your first warm up set/week. 

Week 2: Moderate Session.  You have to work a little but still have some left in reserve. 

Week 3: All Out.  This is your top set week, you push it to failure or close to it.  

Week 4: This is really Week 1 of your new cycles.  You change either the exercises, sets and repetitions or both.

*New Week 1*

This week is for Active Recovery.  It allows you to recover from the beating you took in Week 3 and restart the process.  

*4-6 Week Cycles*

You usually want to revise your program about every 4-6 weeks.  The 3 week program example above works for me.  

Experiment and find what time cycle works for you. 



suraj said:


> Abb exercises - just one or should I do 2 or 3 that target different parts of abs like bicicles, crunch and a one for lower abs?



*1-2 Ab Exercises*

As I noted in a previous post, the abdominals/core is heavily involved (worked) with squats, deadlifts, overhead pressing, etc.  The abs are worked with any standing movement. 

More work is overkill. 



suraj said:


> Should I add any neck exercises and militarry press on push day?



*Neck Exercises*

Look at the necks of Powerlifters and Olympic Lifters.  The perform NO direct neck work, yet their necks are huge  

What does that tell you?  

*Myotatic Neck Reflex*

The neck is heavily worked in deadlifts, squats, and Olympic movements (power clean, snatch, jerks).  

That same in bench pressing, you push you head into the bench. It is the same with overhead pressing movements, you drive you head back as you push the bar up.  

In performing lat pulldowns, rows and curls the neck is curled forward. 

All of this neck movement enables you to produce more force (strength).  

It is a "Myotatic Reflex"...and it heavily works the neck. 

So, you do NOT need more neck work.  

*Overhead Press*

Replace the Incline Press with the Overhead Press if you want it in your program.  

*Another Option*

Another solution is to perform the Incline Press in this program and the Overhead Press in your next program.  



suraj said:


> Also you meantioned eat same on off days so I should eat 2700 cals all the time no matter on or off?



*Weekly Caloric Intake*

The focus need to be on your weekly caloric intake.  

*18,900 Calories A Week *

Eating 2700 a day X 7 days = 18,900 a week.  

*Cycling Daily Calories*

Cycling you daily caloric intake is an effective method.  

That means you can vary your daily caloric intake from day to day as long as you're weekly total comes in where it should be.  



suraj said:


> Also to sum it all up I need about 350g carbs about 160g pro and about 80g fat  So about a 50/20/30 carb/pro/fat?



Sure, that will work.  Just stay someplace in that ball park. 



suraj said:


> Since I am a begginner will I loose some fat while I am on here or is the traditional bulk/cut the same for begginers?



Yes, as a beginner you should lose some fat while increasing muscle mass.  

*"Rome Wasn't Build In A Day."*

Be patient, it will come.

Kenny Croxdale


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## stewy101 (Dec 31, 2011)

owwwch said:


> ^^^ i like the look of that plan. seems like it would give you a good workout on each muscle group since they arent in conjunction w/ each other. for example chest and tris on the same day (if that comment makes any sense).



Very correct, just remember that when you are doing any exercise that requires you to push off of your body not only are you working that particular body part (Chest) but you are also working your triceps as well. You are not targeting your triceps in that particular exercise but you are still using them to push off with so you are exercising them as well. 

The only time you will target the triceps using the bench press is when you use the close grip bench press as you will mainly only target the triceps for that particular exercise. Now anytime you are doing exercises where you are mainly pulling (Example:Back) you will also be using your biceps as well just like bicep curls. You just wont be mainly targeting them as you do with bicep curls. 

That is why it is better to spread these exercises out throughout the week for each muscle part to ensure proper rest, healing and growth of your muscles. The ONLY muscle part I and anyone for that matter can exercise more than 1 time a week is your abs. I exercise them 3 times a week. I am not trying to build or bulk them Like the rest of my muscle parts, but instead sculptor them to be lean and shredded.


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## suraj (Dec 31, 2011)

Oh My God, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! What I have been trying to plan for *AGES* you helped me with so fast, I dont know how to thank youm you have answered all my questions...THANK YOU, I hope it wasnt too much of a bother to help me, trying to figure out how to rep so I can ive you all of mine!


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## Kenny Croxdale (Dec 31, 2011)

suraj said:


> Also been told I should have coffee or green tea before workout, will this not be needed because my pre workout drink has dex in it?



*Caffeine *

Caffeine has been shown to enhance training sessions.  Caffeine is in green tea.  

*Personally*

Being sensetive to caffeing, I find it helps me push through hard workouts.  Personally, I love caffeine taken prior to a workout.  

*Caffeine Plus Creatine*

This combination has been shown to boost workout performance.  Caffeine has also been shown to help reload glycogen (carbohydrates in the muscle cells) after a training session.  

So, I am a proponent of caffeine. 



suraj said:


> Should I take it 15 mins before workout with a banana and while workoing out sip on my second shake and then one straight after with creatine? Sorry had to make a new reply, couldnt edit other one. Thanks



15-30 minutes before a workout, works.  Then sipping it during your workout and taking it afterword is effective. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## stewy101 (Dec 31, 2011)

suraj said:


> Thank you stewy, that is an AMAZING plan but I think it might be a bit advanced for me at the moment.
> Kenny Croxdale has spent allot of time planning the diet and workout for my specific body type and he knows exactly what I have been through so far and has made the plan so it suits me perfectly, I could do your plan but I think I might end up hurting myself at the moment since I am an Ectomorph with very little muscle and fat left over, I will follow Kenny's plan for now and maybee when I am a bit more advanced move onto yours, Thank you for spending the time to make such a great plan, I will surely follow it in the future when I am a bit more advanced.
> 
> 
> ...


Your very welcome suraj. and you are correct if you are in your in your Ectomorph stage. This plane can be broken down as well by cutting down on the sets for each particular body part. You can only do 1 primary and 1 secondary exercise for each to start off with at first until your body gets adjusted, lets say for the first month. Then work your way up after each month for a few months to the routine that I had put fourth. This was just an example of what Routine I do for what stage I am at and I should have explained that better and more detailed in the beginning.

As far as shoulders go, this are all the exercises you will need sinse you are working out at home.



    : Front Military Press-Barbell = (Targets entire shoulder)
    : Rear Military Press-Barbell = (Targets entire shoulder)
    : Shoulder Press -Dumbbell =(Targets entire shoulder)
    : Arnold Press-Dumbbell =(Targets entire shoulder)
    : Upright row barbell = (Targets side deltoids or "delts")
    : Front raises- dumbbell = (Targets front delts)
    : side raises- dumbbell = (Targets side delts)
    : standing or seated bent-over raises-dumbbell = (Targets rear delts)


   Just remember to Never workout 1 particular body part except your abs more than 1 time a week to ensure proper rest, healing and muscle growth to occur. Get your diet, supplements and workout routine down right and I guarantee you will be on your way to a bigger, stronger and more well rounded and sculptured body all around. I guarantee it. Take care and I hope this helped you with your shoulder routine.... Happy New Year.


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## suraj (Dec 31, 2011)

Great help, I am all sorted out now and know exactly what to do thank you


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## ben1793 (Jan 4, 2012)

Will this training program work for any beginner?


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## Powermaster (Jan 5, 2012)

ben1793 said:


> Will this training program work for any beginner?



It will work for anyone period depending on goals but yes, it will work for a beginner. Learning and utilizing proper form is most important for beginners.


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## enhancedmood (Jan 5, 2012)

That looks like a great exercise you have going there


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