# CNS and training to failure.



## GFR (Jan 11, 2006)

Have read some training theorys about the CNS and training to failure. The basic idea  of it is train to failure every set for about 6-7 weeks then take 2 weeks off form all training. Just wondered what you all thouight about this basic idea.


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## MyK (Jan 11, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Have read some training theorys about the CNS and training to failure. The basic idea  of it is train to failure every set for about 6-7 weeks then take 2 weeks off form all training. Just wondered what you all thouight about this basic idea.



does the 2 weeks off, re-set your CNS to some kind of homeostasis, making the workouts more effective or something??


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## The13ig13adWolf (Jan 11, 2006)

what are the benefits of this? IMO training to failure is overrated and unnecessary.


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 11, 2006)

Do you have a link?


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## GFR (Jan 11, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> what are the benefits of this? IMO training to failure is overrated and unnecessary.


*Just wondered what you all thouight about this basic idea.*

This is a question....I would like intelligent and informative responces explaing the pros or cons of this idea.


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## GFR (Jan 11, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Do you have a link?


No, it is just the basic idea of several training programs I have read in the last few weeks.


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 11, 2006)

Well, you should definitely take a week off every 4-6 weeks, but active recovery is better.

I don't train to failure on every set, but I do for all compound movements.


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## GFR (Jan 11, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Well, you should definitely take a week off every 4-6 weeks, but active recovery is better.
> 
> I don't train to failure on every set, but I do for all compound movements.


Most exercises are compound movements....about 95%.


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 11, 2006)

I do 1 compound movement per motion, sometimes 2, and 3-5 assistance exercises, none of which are done to failure and none of which are compound.


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 11, 2006)

Non-compound movements...

Bi Curl
Tri extension
lat raise
rear delt raise
front raise
calf raise
leg extension
leg curl
hip flexion
reverse hypers
SLDLs-Sort of, the shoulders do move so I s'pose you could say movement occurs over 2 joints
Scaption
shrugs
hip adduction & abduction

There are more.


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## The13ig13adWolf (Jan 11, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> *Just wondered what you all thouight about this basic idea.*



i saw that part, no need to bold it. if you've read some theories about it then there should have been benefits listed as well, no? i am wondering what those theoretical benefits are.


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## GFR (Jan 11, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> i saw that part, no need to bold it. if you've read some theories about it then there should have been benefits listed as well, no? i am wondering what those theoretical benefits are.


Um ok


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## The13ig13adWolf (Jan 11, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Um ok


or not...


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## GFR (Jan 11, 2006)

True story


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## kenwood (Jan 11, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> True story



thats not the ending


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## GFR (Jan 11, 2006)

It is on this one


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## Hlanderr (Jan 11, 2006)

i think it sounds practical...... even though ive never really taken time off (intentionally.... aha)

what was mentioned earlier about how the CNS "re-aligns" to homeostasis sounds right to me, and in turn would help push in greater gains when returning to failure sets
now i have no medical claims behind that either, just my guess

i dont think TWO weeks sounds right though for 6-7 weeks of failure lifting..... id go with one week off for every 8-10 weeks


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## CowPimp (Jan 11, 2006)

I don't think taking 2 weeks off is the best idea.  Some level of detraining could occur at that point.  I think implementing a form of periodization for your level of fatigue would make more sense:

Week A: Acclimation/Recovery - Lower volume and stop well short of failure
Week B: Maintenance - Bring volume back up and stop just short of failure
Week C: Overload - Increase volume slightly and achieve total failure on all sets

Something like that.  Obviously more detail than that would be required for a successful program.  The point here is that you during your active recovery weeks you should be recovering fully without any detraining taking place.


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## ABLQ2 (Jan 11, 2006)

well if your training to failure, i would think your muscles would be hard up for energy and recovery time.  Failure means using everything youve got...  taking a total break after a while only makes sense so you can fully regenerate.  At one point in time i did a routine where i severly overtrained on purpose, and then took a couple weeks off... i grew a ton over those two weeks and when i went back in the gym i was significantly stronger.


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## GFR (Jan 11, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> I don't think taking 2 weeks off is the best idea.  Some level of detraining could occur at that point.  I think implementing a form of periodization for your level of fatigue would make more sense:
> 
> *Week A: Acclimation/Recovery - Lower volume and stop well short of failure
> Week B: Maintenance - Bring volume back up and stop just short of failure
> ...


Nice answer....why the hell didnt they make you a mod???
Thanks for the input..


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## Adamjs (Jan 12, 2006)

Pete Sisco swears by it - but he also advocates taking as long of a break between workout days as you need to fully recover, and partial reps or static holds, which, conveniently enough, he also sells a damn expensive machine that you can use for all of your static holds with....


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 12, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> I don't think taking 2 weeks off is the best idea.  Some level of detraining could occur at that point.  I think implementing a form of periodization for your level of fatigue would make more sense:
> 
> Week A: Acclimation/Recovery - Lower volume and stop well short of failure
> Week B: Maintenance - Bring volume back up and stop just short of failure
> ...




I don't follow this.  So you are essentially saying don't train to failure all the time, just periodize relative intensity, or are you recommending to do it, then use weeks A, B, C as unloading weeks?


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## GymJamo (Jan 12, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> Have read some training theorys about the CNS and training to failure. The basic idea  of it is train to failure every set for about 6-7 weeks then take 2 weeks off form all training. Just wondered what you all thouight about this basic idea.



Typically the CNS takes longer to recover then the Muscle fibres themselves.

A test was done on a group of people that did 6 sets of bench press to positive failure on each set.

Their Protein synthesis was elevated for only 48-62 hours after training and went back to normal drastically fast after 48 hours

CNS overstraining can take 2 weeks to get over and the main culprit is to failure training 

So why rest 2 weeks just to let the CNS recover? as the muscle recover much faster. My conclusion is to train near failure hitting each bodypart twice per week.


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## GymJamo (Jan 12, 2006)

I agree with a planned regime where you increase volume/intensity then go in a maintenance phase for a few weeks, but 6 weeks of all sets to failure is overkill and not needed unless you have very low volume.


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## GFR (Jan 12, 2006)

GymJamo said:
			
		

> I agree with a planned regime where you increase volume/intensity then go in a maintenance phase for a few weeks, but 6 weeks of all sets to failure is overkill and not needed unless you have very low volume.


It's around 4 sets per muscle 2x every 8 days.


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## Zinthar (Jan 12, 2006)

I don't have enough experience to give a well-informed opinion, but like GymJano said, the CNS takes much longer to recover than muscle fibers do -- so I'd expect that if you tried training to failure always for 6+ weeks you'd overtrain.  Isn't CNS/kidney/other organ recovery also the reason why many people advocate never training on consecutive days?

Does training to failure induce hypertrophy that much better than training to near failure to make the extra rest time trade-off worth it?


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## CowPimp (Jan 12, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> I don't follow this.  So you are essentially saying don't train to failure all the time, just periodize relative intensity, or are you recommending to do it, then use weeks A, B, C as unloading weeks?



I'm saying that implementing failure training would make more sense in a cyclical manner.  That is to say that you overload yourself with high volume and failure training and implement unloading weeks frequently to compensate.  I just threw that little mini half assed routine out there.  I was saying a mixture of unloading, overreaching, and maintenance/moderate volume training would probably make more sense.


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## GymJamo (Jan 12, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> It's around 4 sets per muscle 2x every 8 days.



I would say that is right on the limit for a drug free trainee if your talking real faliure.

2x a week is a good thing as the muscles will be fine with recovery BUT your risking CNS overtraining, personally I would do 5-6 sets 2x per 7-8 days changing  a variable (exercise/reps etc) on each chest/back etc workout and going 1-2-3 reps shy of true failure for a stable routine and cycle intensity/volume with planned training cycles with a goal to hit PR`s.

The only thing with training 2x a week and including "failure" sets is that every time you workout chest,arms,back or whatever the CNS gets hit global (i.e. train your back CNS gets hit train your arms CNS gets hit) while muscles fiber damage can be localized the CNS cannot.

So I would be care full when making a 2x per week slit which is to "failure" every workout, meaning that it would be better to group many bodyparts together i.e. upper/lower and train 3/4 times a week then train a split where your in the gym 6 days a week dest destroying your CNS.

How many days you in the gym a week on that routine?


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 12, 2006)

Oh, now I gots ya.

I concur.

It's funny too, there are no real signs of anaerobic overtraining, research has shown that strength can even INCREASE while your CNS is being overtrained.


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## GFR (Jan 12, 2006)

GymJamo said:
			
		

> I would say that is right on the limit for a drug free trainee if your talking real faliure.
> 
> 2x a week is a good thing as the muscles will be fine with recovery BUT your risking CNS overtraining, personally I would do 5-6 sets 2x per 7-8 days changing  a variable (exercise/reps etc) on each chest/back etc workout and going 1-2-3 reps shy of true failure for a stable routine and cycle intensity/volume with planned training cycles with a goal to hit PR`s.
> 
> ...



I do not do this workout yet but might in the future.....you lift every other day and thast consists of 3 differabnt workouts....so like this

1. Chest, delts, triceps
2. off....cardio
3. Lats, biceps, hamstrings, traps
4. off
5. Quads, calfs
6. off,,,cardio
7.repeat cycle

something like this


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## GymJamo (Jan 12, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> I do not do this workout yet but might in the future.....you lift every other day and thast consists of 3 differabnt workouts....so like this
> 
> 1. Chest, delts, triceps
> 2. off....cardio
> ...



I thought it was 2xbodypart every 8 days?


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## GFR (Jan 12, 2006)

GymJamo said:
			
		

> I thought it was 2xbodypart every 8 days?


It is but I would change it to the one I posted


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## brogers (Jan 12, 2006)

I train to failure, always, every set, but I only do one motion per body part. I train each muscle group 3x per 14 days (6 total gym days). I take 4-5 day breaks every so often. Absolutely the best training routine for strength (and mass when bulking) I personally have used.

Edit:  I don't train to failure when warming up


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## P-funk (Jan 12, 2006)

brogers said:
			
		

> I train to failure, always, every set, but I only do one motion per body part. I train each muscle group 3x per 14 days (6 total gym days). I take 4-5 day breaks every so often. Absolutely the best training routine for strength (and mass when bulking) I personally have used.
> 
> Edit:  I don't train to failure when warming up




Are you following HIT training?


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## brogers (Jan 12, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> Are you following HIT training?


 
I follow Doggcrapp's training, which is a spinoff of HIT.

I think I'l be sticking with it for awhile.  Although, I've thought of getting into more athletic-type training (sort of like what you do?).


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## myCATpowerlifts (Jan 12, 2006)

ForemanRules said:
			
		

> why the hell didnt they make you a mod???



Prince was going to make him one, then bigbadwolf offered her body for the position....


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## P-funk (Jan 12, 2006)

brogers said:
			
		

> I follow Doggcrapp's training, which is a spinoff of HIT.
> 
> I think I'l be sticking with it for awhile.  Although, I've thought of getting into more athletic-type training (sort of like what you do?).




cool. I only asked because you need to make that stuff clear to people because some will read that as "oh, he trains everything to failure all the time so I can too." and we are trying to teach good training techniques here.  So, if you are doing a HIT routine or spin off like Dogg Crapp it is good for everyone to know that and know what it is also about.


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## Tough Old Man (Jan 12, 2006)

The13ig13adWolf said:
			
		

> what are the benefits of this? IMO training to failure is overrated and unnecessary.


Well then I could give you a pm with a site that everyone is raving about training all muscles to failure. But hell you have your thoughts and I have mine. Maybe you should try it if you haven't already. 


Tough


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## Tough Old Man (Jan 12, 2006)

I'm currently using a routine put out to me by a pro bodybuilder. I have made better gains in the last 9 weeks then i did in the previous 6 months. I train ea muscle 2 times in 8 days. Ea muscle is only train with one working set. It's actually three sets in one and all are taken to failure. The are no isolation exercises and all are compounds. 

As some of you know I was using DC training for about 6 months and I find this far superior. 

You workout M, W and F and the workout last around 1.5 hrs. A lot of rest in there guys. After 6 weeks you take off for 10 days to recoop. 

Tough


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## ironman512 (Jan 12, 2006)

i think training to failure works well if u spread it out over time, like train upper body to  failure one week while doing legs normal than alternate the next week


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## Squaggleboggin (Jan 12, 2006)

ironman512 said:
			
		

> i think training to failure works well if u spread it out over time, like train upper body to failure one week while doing legs normal than alternate the next week



Complex periodization. Now that's a concept. Deloading one set of exercises while overexerting another, then switching at exact opposites. I wonder if it could be timed such that a full week of rest is needed at the same time for both sets of periodization, and then you could start each one over at the opposite end of the program from which you started last time. Hmm...


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## P-funk (Jan 12, 2006)

Squaggleboggin said:
			
		

> Complex periodization. Now that's a concept. Deloading one set of exercises while overexerting another, then switching at exact opposites. I wonder if it could be timed such that a full week of rest is needed at the same time for both sets of periodization, and then you could start each one over at the opposite end of the program from which you started last time. Hmm...




if you are deloading one and over exerting another then you are not unloading your CNS which is the idea.


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## Boost777 (Jan 12, 2006)

Tough, can you post a more detailed version of your workout.  I wanted to start training my muscles 2x a week and i'm curious to see what yours would look like.  PS I see that you post a lot on the anabolic forums so if it's not for someone who doesn't use gear then nvm, but thanks anyway.


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## CowPimp (Jan 12, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> if you are deloading one and over exerting another then you are not unloading your CNS which is the idea.



Exactly.  Overtraining of the CNS seems to be more common, not to mention overtraining a muscle is far less problematic than overtraining your CNS.


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## soxmuscle (Jan 12, 2006)

i train to failure.


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## ZECH (Jan 13, 2006)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Exactly.  Overtraining of the CNS seems to be more common, not to mention overtraining a muscle is far less problematic than overtraining your CNS.


Correct. Most people that overtrain, have a taxed CNS. You may be recovered from a previous workout to allow another workout, but your CNS may not be. You need to allow your CNS to recover as much as your muscles.


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## myCATpowerlifts (Jan 13, 2006)

I know most of this to be true.

But that's why I wonder about the pro's...
How are they able to train 5 days on, like they do?
I understand they are genetic freaks, and are on loads of gear, huge calories...etc etc.

But I don't see how the anabolics aid the cns recovery?


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## CowPimp (Jan 13, 2006)

myCATpowerlifts said:
			
		

> I know most of this to be true.
> 
> But that's why I wonder about the pro's...
> How are they able to train 5 days on, like they do?
> ...



Pro bodybuilders use a lot of isolation work in addition to their base compound stuff.  This lets them beat the shit out of their muscles more than a natural trainee could with far less CNS strain.


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## DOMS (Jan 13, 2006)

Is there any substance that does help in the recovery of the CNS?


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## CowPimp (Jan 13, 2006)

DOMS said:
			
		

> Is there any substance that does help in the recovery of the CNS?



Anabolics might.  I don't know as much about the endocrine system as I should...


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## P-funk (Jan 13, 2006)

DOMS said:
			
		

> Is there any substance that does help in the recovery of the CNS?




I don't know anything about anabolics either.

Dale could probably answer this question for ya.


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## ZECH (Jan 13, 2006)

A couple posts I found while searching this...........


The structural diversity of steroids that exert CNS activity is broad and they modulate their effects, not only via classical steroid receptors (oestrogen, androgen, progestin, glucocorticoid and mineralocorticoid) but also via ion channels, particularly GABAA receptors and glutamate (NMDA) receptors.


The central nervous system (CNS) is one of the main target tissues for sex steroid hormones, which act both through genomic mechanisms, modulating synthesis, release, and metabolism of many neuropeptides and neurotransmitters, and through nongenomic mechanisms, influencing electrical excitability, synaptic function, and morphological features


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## myCATpowerlifts (Jan 13, 2006)

dg806 said:
			
		

> A couple posts I found while searching this...........
> 
> 
> The structural diversity of steroids that exert CNS activity is broad and they modulate their effects, not only via classical steroid receptors (oestrogen, androgen, progestin, glucocorticoid and mineralocorticoid) but also via ion channels, particularly GABAA receptors and glutamate (NMDA) receptors.
> ...




Wow, so according to this, steroids DO in fact affect it to a certain degree.
Sensitivity wise...etc.


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## Dale Mabry (Jan 13, 2006)

Steroids very much help with recuperation of teh CNS.

In fact, Testosterone exerts most of its effects via the CNS, I believe.  Which is why you see large gains in strength, without hypertrophy the first few weeks, Test and most anabolics allow for greater motor unit recruitment.


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## myCATpowerlifts (Jan 14, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Steroids very much help with recuperation of teh CNS.
> 
> In fact, Testosterone exerts most of its effects via the CNS, I believe.  Which is why you see large gains in strength, without hypertrophy the first few weeks, Test and most anabolics allow for greater motor unit recruitment.



Cool, thanks.


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## DOMS (Jan 14, 2006)

Dale Mabry said:
			
		

> Steroids very much help with recuperation of teh CNS.
> 
> In fact, Testosterone exerts most of its effects via the CNS, I believe.  Which is why you see large gains in strength, without hypertrophy the first few weeks, Test and most anabolics allow for greater motor unit recruitment.



Are there any non-steroidal substances that also positively affects the CNS?


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## P-funk (Jan 14, 2006)

DOMS said:
			
		

> Are there any non-steroidal substances that also positively affects the CNS?




caffeine.


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## Zinthar (Jan 14, 2006)

Is there any consensus on how well training to failure repeatedly works for trainees that aren't on anabolics?

I'm currently doing an Upper/Lower split 3x per week split (ABA one week, BAB the next, etc.), 2-3 sets per exercise with almost exclusively compound movements, but always just train to near failure.  Should I train to failure on some sets (and cut down on total # of sets)?


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## emunah (Jan 14, 2006)

As far as I know, training to failure does not result in any extra signficant muscle gain compared to NOT training to failure.

So why tax the CNS for no real gain?


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## DOMS (Jan 14, 2006)

P-funk said:
			
		

> caffeine.


Caffeine is classified as a methylxanthine, along with theobromine and theophylline. Of these three chemicals, caffeine had the greatest stimulant effect on the central nervous system and the skeletal muscles, and the least effect on the cardiovascular system.

Absorption of caffeine is rapid. Its effects take about 30 minutes, which is the time the peak blood levels are reached. Maximal central nervous system effects take about 2 hours and caffeine's half-life is about 3 hours. (Remember the 10-2 and 4 ads for Dr Pepper?) It is metabolized almost completely, with only 10% or less being excreted from the body unchanged.

Caffeine's stimulant action on the central nervous system is caused by its ability to block the brain's neuroreceptors for adenosine. Adenosine itself acts as a neuromodulator to produce behavioral sedation in several areas of the brain by inhibiting the release of neurotransmittors. By inhibiting adenosine's sedative effects, caffeine causes stimulation.

Low doses of about 200 mg of caffeine cause reduced drowsiness and fatigue in most individuals. The stimulant effect on skeletal muscles increases the body's ability to perform physically exhausting work for longer periods of time. The same dose of 200 mg keeps most people awake longer and causes sleep disturbances. Caffeine's stimulant qualities caused the National Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medicine to recommend ways to add caffeine to U.S. soldiers' rations. Since caffeine might give an athlete an unfair advantage, the U.S. Olympic Committee considers it a "performance enhancer", and regularly screens athletes for the drug. - from a paper presented at Penn State University by Robert L. Badgett- also published in Badgett's Coffee eJournal, Issue 4, June 16, 2000


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## tonybaloney (Jan 14, 2006)

I am not very educated on lifting I guess because I always train to failure on just about every set and every lift.  So I guess my question is if I don't train to failure how do I know when to stop doing reps.


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## P-funk (Jan 14, 2006)

tonybaloney said:
			
		

> I am not very educated on lifting I guess because I always train to failure on just about every set and every lift.  So I guess my question is if I don't train to failure how do I know when to stop doing reps.




you choose a rep range to work with and then you use that.  You need to really know your lifts and what you use as far as weights go.

For example  If tomorrow is an 8 rep day for you and you are going to squat.  You would take a weight you can squat comfortably for 10 reps and bang it out for 8 reps for multiple sets (3-4), allowing fatigue to accumulate over the course a a few sets rather then just going until failure and stressing out your system and also destroying your energy for the next couple of sets.  For example, lets say you kick out your squats...lets say 315lbs to failure at 11 reps.  Your total amount of weight moved was 3465lbs.  Not bad!  Now, I go at it with the same weight (315lbs) and go for 8 reps for three sets.  Well, my total amount of weight moved is 7560lbs.  Now, I have just moved more weight without pushing my CNS into a stressed state so I have more room to grow and get stronger over the next few weeks instead of stressing myself and risking over training.  Be sure to keep all your vairables constant, things like rep speed and the very important rest interval, as they will help to show you how well you are progressing....IE....315/8reps x 3 sets with 60sec rest interval is not the same as 315/8reps x 3 sets without knowing your rest interval since you can't tell how hard you are actually working from set to set if you are resting longer and longer every set.  Also, 315/8 reps x 3 sets with a constant tempo (1/0/1) down 1, up, down 2, up, etc...is not the same as breathing squats down 1, up, stand and pause, down 2, up, stand and pause for longer, etc..


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## CowPimp (Jan 14, 2006)

emunah said:
			
		

> As far as I know, training to failure does not result in any extra signficant muscle gain compared to NOT training to failure.
> 
> So why tax the CNS for no real gain?



Actually, training to failure will result in a greater number of stimulated muscle fibers, particularly type IIb fibers.  This is because your central nervous system "pull out the stops" in an effort to get the set completed.  This is more important if your goals are strength, but it can certainly be beneficial if you are going for hypertrophy as well.

As well, there should theoretically be a greater hormonal response when training to failure.


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## Krelian (Jan 14, 2006)

Forgive my ignorance, but when you're talking about the CNS and its recovery... what exactly are you talking about physiologically?  What part of the body is actually "recovering"?  Your nerves?


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## P-funk (Jan 14, 2006)

Krelian said:
			
		

> Forgive my ignorance, but when you're talking about the CNS and its recovery... what exactly are you talking about physiologically?  What part of the body is actually "recovering"?  Your nerves?




what is recovering is the bodies neurological system and endocrine system as it has reached a state of fatigue and can no-longer keep up with the intense level of training being placed on it.

When you train you create stress.  After your workout, in order to handle this stress your body "supercompensates" in an effort to get back to homeostatis.  So, you have adapted to a new level of stress.  As you train over weeks and weeks your body contiuously increases its level of fitness, in order to keep up with the stress, but that level of fitness is increased at a slower pace then the level of fatigue which is being built up, do to the stress and adaptation cycle taking place to get back to homeostatis.  You then move into over reaching.  You have slighty passed your point of recovery or your are just able to recover between workouts and your CNS is starting to burn out.  This can be charecterized by fatigue or loss of strength.  Usually people say don't allow yourself to lose anymore then a 10% drop in strength in an over reaching period before dropping the volume so that you can allow for a greater time for recovery and allow your fitness level to increase and catch up to and pass by your level of fatigue (the fitness fatigue model) since there is a lag time between the two.  If you keep pushing through this you get into an state where your body can no-longer recover to homeostasis and reaches a state of heterostasis.  This is called overtraining.  There are many characteristics of over training...loss of strength, fatigue, tired, moody, immune system compromised, excessive sorness, dis interest in training, etc....Basically, the point of no return.


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## tonybaloney (Jan 15, 2006)

Ok so if I do the 3 sets of 8 like you say, should my last set always be to failure to make sure I push my muscles to the limit.  Say I can get 9 on the last set should I do that or just stop at 8.  And if I stop at 8 how often should I train to failure and go those extra reps.


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## P-funk (Jan 15, 2006)

tonybaloney said:
			
		

> Ok so if I do the 3 sets of 8 like you say, should my last set always be to failure to make sure I push my muscles to the limit.  Say I can get 9 on the last set should I do that or just stop at 8.  And if I stop at 8 how often should I train to failure and go those extra reps.




if on all three sets you get eight reps then next time raise the weight or raise the number or reps per set you are doing or add another set.


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## DOMS (Jan 15, 2006)

P-funk, what is the usual time needed for the CNS to recover?  Does caffine shorten the time needed?


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## P-funk (Jan 15, 2006)

DOMS said:
			
		

> P-funk, what is the usual time needed for the CNS to recover?  Does caffine shorten the time needed?




there is no way to answer that.  Depends on the person, their unqiue ability to recover and ofcourse how overtrained they are.  Some people would need a few weeks.  To be safe, planning an unloading week inbetween blocks of training would be a goo dthing.

not sure about the caffeine.  maybe dale?


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## CowPimp (Jan 15, 2006)

DOMS said:
			
		

> P-funk, what is the usual time needed for the CNS to recover?  Does caffine shorten the time needed?



In addition to what P said about individual genetics, this does depend somewhat on the routine you are performing.  Your standard bodybuilding routine is not all that demanding unless you hit failure excessively.  However, a routine like Westside is very demanding of the CNS: it involves working at a very high intensity (ME work), implementing compensatory acceleration (DE work), and a very high volume (Accessory/Modified RE work).

I was reading an article by James Smith, a natural powerlifter subscribing to the conjugate method, who deloads for 1 week for every 3 weeks of hard training.  During his deloading weeks he uses a lot of higher repetition stuff, bodyweight stuff, and uses 70% of his working weight for similar set/rep schemes on a lot of movements.


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