# Epi/Havoc or Hdrol? + questions



## scottie350 (Aug 22, 2010)

Heyyy my first post

ok this was my original post for m1t on another site butt as usual for that site i got a whole lot of flaming and no actual answers for the questions and alot of threads like this ive seen on ironmags have been a whole lot better for help ect (think this may be my new site(i was then suggested something  less for now: 

I have the option to get this stuff for 125 bucks for a  about 6, 2 week cycles, and i was recommended this product by quite a  few.

So i started researching it, how to cycle it, ect ect. I plan on doing  more research till i have everything down packed. Now i know this is  going to cause a fuss cuz im 20 (21 in december if it helps..and wont be  till around then that id actually get into it if i do) 

Anyway, this is what i have so far on how to cycle it:
About a week before starting M1t cycle start dosing 4derm my *********** at 4 sprays twice a day every 12 hours. 

A couple days before starting the m1t cycle, start Alpha Lipoic Acid for  liver protection.And start taking about 1000 mcg's of Vit b12 a day to  keep appetite up, And as much Vit C and Ecinachea to keep immune system  in check. 


Start m1t at 5-10 mgs/day taking entire dose postworkout, continuing 4derm dosing throughout cycle (and pct)

Keep taking the 4 derm for 2 weeks after the m1t cycle, as well as all  your vitamins and Alpha lipoic acid. Start Nolvadex dosing the day after  finishing m1t cycle.

now like i said im still in long research on this, so im expecting to be  recommended changes ect, and have things added ect ect...again this is  just what i have down so far.



I was suggested Epistane/havoc(same thing as epi so price will be deciding factor) or hdrol.

1st question- Which would you guys prefer, epi/havoc or the hdrol?
2nd questioin- Say i was to run these would i run it similar to m1t?  just replacing the m1t with the epi/havoc or hdrol? adding in joint  support since epi and that are "dry"? 

i have a link: h t t p ://f o r u m.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1399921
no spaces in in http and forum

the things he lists for supps to take with this cycle is:
Thermolife liver longer
Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support
Sesamin
Taurine
Potassium
Cissus Quandrangularis (joint support)
|
Pct-Nolvadex (picked it cuz it was the most recommeneded out of anything ive read on PH/PS's seemed pretty tried and true)
BcAA supp
Aromatose Inhibitor
Nettle Root Supp
NAtty Test booster

now that seems like ALOT of **** going in, anything in there not so  necessary if i was to run it like a m1t stack? or is it ALL necessary?

there seems to be too many threads with mixed ideas and information for  me to figure out these questions on my own, it was aggravating to say  the least haha, so i thought id post my questions here.

I hope i didnt mash things up too much. And please lets stick to the questions at hand.


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## scottie350 (Aug 22, 2010)

hey man thanks for the reply!
so hdrol or genxxl tbol? k ill look into them, any other help to my other questions bro?


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## scottie350 (Aug 22, 2010)

Richard Gears said:


> run your support supps as you would with any Methylated oral steroid. Tbol, hdrol, epi are all much milder than m1t but support supps should still be used.
> 
> Space your doses out. For instance, 60 mgs of Tbol should be dosed at 30 in the morn, 30 at night. Splitting doses seems to help reduce sides. At least in my case....
> 
> ...



So out of that list which supps should i unclude for my support? similar to the M1t? or added extras from the link?

so im assuming take the doses for the tbol(which ill prolly end up taking, then again may go hdrol then tbol after i build back up from the hdrol (kind of work my way up)) about 12 hours apart?

and so get an AI but dont take it on cycle, take it  a few days before my serms done?

and ya i figured fishoil would be a must for the joints, any recommendations?


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## scottie350 (Aug 22, 2010)

for my m1t search, it was recomended using 4derm along with the m1t, can this also be done with Hdrol or Tbol?


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## scottie350 (Aug 22, 2010)

ok for my pct ive come up with 
SERM- Nolvadex
Liver Care-Anibolic innovations-cycle support or Liver Longer
Some sort of Cortisol Control  (still looking in on it)
a Natty Test booster (again still looking into it)
and for an Aromatose Inhibitor im looking into it but looking at formadrol v2 extreme (was a suggestion on an old thread for PH/PS use, and im open to other suggestions if anything else is better)

and i was recomended taking creatine to help keep strength up as well as muscle hydration ect.


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## jbryand101b (Aug 22, 2010)

you really should run test with m1t. yes you can run it by itself, but it'll be much better with some form of test.

a 6 week cycle of hd ran at 75mg is a good first time cycle.

tbol at 60mg as was suggested above, is also a good first time cycle. either one will bring gains, tbol def packs more bang than hd. but the gains are similar.

reg support sups. if you run m1t, you are going to need a solid pct, hd or ot, you can get away with a good otc pct set up.

support sups are always another good thing to use.

I really wouldn't recomend m1t as a first cycle. im sure lots of guys have done it, but i'd say to wait, and go with hd or ot first.


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## scottie350 (Aug 23, 2010)

jbryand101b said:


> you really should run test with m1t. yes you can run it by itself, but it'll be much better with some form of test.
> 
> a 6 week cycle of hd ran at 75mg is a good first time cycle.
> 
> ...




thanks for the input bro
ya i think ive decided to wait on the m1t, as appealing as it is right now, itll just be that much more satisfying later
i think im going to go withepi or hdrol first, then run tbol (since its apparantly better, so should get some good results out of it as a second cycle after recovery from epi or hdrol ...good idea or just run the tbol?) 

i was also wondering if i could run something like 4derm with epi,hdrol,tbol? like in my example mit cycle? id like to get as much bang for my buck  while working my up the ladder that is

also i think ive gotten the supps for my PCT down, almost a copy cat of another i seen, just different products here and there

Copetitive Edge Labs Cycle Assist (run throught entire cycle)
Lean Extreme - Corisol Control
Activate Extreme or Anabolic Matrix -Nat. Test Booster
Of course Nolvadex -Serm
Size on, Green Mag or UN Storm (have to look at the ingredients yet, but i know size on is good for the taurine and that also. (start this about halfway through cycle-end of cycle)


ideas suggestions, reccommendations, additions ect lol, feel free, between 10 hr shifts at work, then big workouts and cardio through the day, im racking my brain the rest of the time with this haha


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## scottie350 (Aug 23, 2010)

scottie350 said:


> Copetitive Edge Labs Cycle Assist (run throught entire cycle)
> Lean Extreme - Corisol Control
> Activate Extreme or Anabolic Matrix -Nat. Test Booster
> Of course Nolvadex -Serm
> Size on, Green Mag or UN Storm (have to look at the ingredients yet, but i know size on is good for the taurine and that also. (start this about halfway through cycle-end of cycle)



ok for the creatine, think ill go with size on, after reviewing the ingredients list, i think the size on is an overall better choice with all the extra vitamins and minerals over the green mag and the UN storm. and i think ill got with the activate extreme, seems a better natty test booster for this situation.


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## jbryand101b (Aug 23, 2010)

yea, you can run the 4derm along with w/e you decide to go with


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## stylus187 (Aug 23, 2010)

scottie350 said:


> Heyyy my first post
> 
> ok this was my original post for m1t on another site butt as usual for that site i got a whole lot of flaming and no actual answers for the questions and alot of threads like this ive seen on ironmags have been a whole lot better for help ect (think this may be my new site(i was then suggested something less for now:
> 
> ...


 h-drol sucks. if you want something closest to halodrol50 go with chlorodrol-50, by culver concepts. stay away from m1t garbage "trust me"


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## scottie350 (Aug 24, 2010)

jbryand101b said:


> yea, you can run the 4derm along with w/e you decide to go with



ok sounds good man, thanks alot!


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## scottie350 (Aug 24, 2010)

stylus187 said:


> h-drol sucks. if you want something closest to halodrol50 go with chlorodrol-50, by culver concepts. stay away from m1t garbage "trust me"




ill def keep that in mind bro.


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## jbryand101b (Aug 24, 2010)

chlorodrol-50 is over priced, under dosed.

three top brands (in no specific order)

helladrol-ntbm

turinabol lv-pp

halovar-purus

the first two come with enough to run a full 6 week cycle at 75mg. helladrol will include free shipping, and you can find dicount codes to make it cost even less.

halovar is a solid hd product, but is under dosed at only 60 caps per bottle, so you'll have to buy two, and that'll make shipping cost a lil more.

turinabol lv is a liquid version, with 30mg per ml, at 120ml. with it being a liquid, it will have more dosing options. the neg. is the price, which doesn't include free shipping.

but from the reviews, these seem to be the best three. hdrol is good to me. I've used it, and found it to work fine.


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## scottie350 (Aug 24, 2010)

jbryand101b said:


> chlorodrol-50 is over priced, under dosed.
> 
> three top brands (in no specific order)
> 
> ...



ya when i get it priced out at my guy here (and then a site from the uk and here will depend both on where i get it from (depending on if theres a big diff in price) and will also let me decide on which one i want, i may try hdrol first, then try tbol on a second cycle in place of the hdrol, see if i can tell any differences myself.


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