# Better lifts without warm-up????



## nkira (Feb 6, 2009)

Today after very long time i had the best workout .....bit confused, later it came to me that I missed the warm-up completely !!

But I was able to do complete sets with higher weights.  Got the best pumped feeling after very long time.

So is it ok if i skip the warm-up and directly move on to weights?

Also other change was that after almost 2 months (I gave up coffee but sometimes I take it , but never exceed 1 cup per day previously it was 4 - 6 cups a day) I has a strong coffee before leaving for gym. I am considering adding instant coffee to my pre-workout drink...if its OK i mean.

My pre-workout drink is, (1 Hour prior to gym) 

Creatine 5 Grams (Super Creatine - APN Brand) 

Glutamine 5 Grams (All Max)

Electral (Oral Hydrating Salts mainly Sodium + Potassium + Chloride + Citrate + Dextrose) It says based on W.H.O. Formula 

Reason for "Electral" - I sweat a lot while working out and if don't get hydrated good enough then next day I get ugly cramps, since I strated Electral, almost zero cramps.

So what should I do?


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## 629RWHPstang (Feb 6, 2009)

thats funny i just had a amazing pump today with mixing Glutamine with my sizeon Creatine... prob just all in my head lol


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## jk7761 (Feb 6, 2009)

*my .02*

As for the coffee. I too gave up coffee to try to improve my recovery and it worked for me.

I now drink 4 oz. first thing in am to jump start. I do a light stretch and one four minute tabata in morning.
Then another 6 oz. with a heaping teaspoon of instant coffee 1/2 hour before workout. This workout takes place after 6:30pm. So for me it's 12 hours between coffee. No caffeine during day just water.

As to warm-up. Now I am NO lifting expert. I jog some stairs while rotating my joints before I lift until I break a light sweat. I am in no way tired or winded. 

Good luck


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## PreMier (Feb 6, 2009)

whats your routine look like?

typically people warm up too much.. i do one warmup for my whole workout, and thats it


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## nkira (Feb 6, 2009)

I too think that i was wasting too much energy in warming up, about the routine I'll post it tomorrow as i just got my routine planned so cant recall all of it.

Any thoughts on Coffee? Normally I work out at around 7.30 PM thats after the whole days work, normally makes me feel sluggish at gym. But that coffee sure did something. Whats with coffee and recovery time?


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## PreMier (Feb 6, 2009)

coffee will inhibit your creatine absorption (from the perspective of some scientific studies).. plus creatine makes you retain water while caffeine, a diuretic, makes your body lose water.  while it may not make a huge difference, it is not optimal.

whenever i have to workout at night after work, i go home and shower first.  i find it helps relax/loosen me up.. and its rejuvenating, so my workouts are 100x's better.


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## PainandGain (Feb 6, 2009)

PreMier said:


> coffee will inhibit your creatine absorption (from the perspective of some scientific studies).. plus creatine makes you retain water while caffeine, a diuretic, makes your body lose water.  while it may not make a huge difference, it is not optimal.
> 
> whenever i have to workout at night after work, i go home and shower first.  i find it helps relax/loosen me up.. and its rejuvenating, so my workouts are 100x's better.



I do the same. Plus it's no fun walking into a workout, already sweaty and smelly.


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## nkira (Feb 6, 2009)

Hot or Cold shower? Also this option is not feasible as I go to gym directly from office, no showers at gym or office...


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## powerrack (Feb 6, 2009)

I have to be warm to have a good workout, the gym I go to is freezing. I always have to wear pants,full sleeve t's and sometimes a sweatshirt on top of that. I always have to do a brisk walk on the treadmill for a few mins before I get started and a few exercises with just empty bars for my whole body before I begin. Maybe I'm unlucky with the Canadian weather.


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## nkira (Feb 7, 2009)

Yeah i can understand, Its normally hot in India except winter and rainy season.


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## AKIRA (Feb 7, 2009)

PreMier said:


> coffee will inhibit your creatine absorption (from the perspective of some scientific studies).. plus creatine makes you retain water while caffeine, a diuretic, makes your body lose water.  while it may not make a huge difference, it is not optimal.
> 
> whenever i have to workout at night after work, i go home and shower first.  i find it helps relax/loosen me up.. and its rejuvenating, so my workouts are 100x's better.



So...you sweat, shower, sweat again, shower again (hopefully)?


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## majorpain (Feb 7, 2009)

As far as warming up goes. I stretch for maybe 5 minutes then I jump on the treadmill for no more than 10 minutes. Just enough to break a light sweat, warm the body,and get the blood flowing. I'm not running at all, just walking. Then I hit the weights. If I don't warm up then I feel like my first two sets suffer.


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## Perdido (Feb 7, 2009)

I used to not warm up enough. That is until I got hurt. Probably over do it now but I'm not screwing up my shoulders any more.


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## david100proof (Feb 7, 2009)

I have to warm up my shoulders to get them back far enough to grab the bar when doing squats


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## Ben dur (Feb 7, 2009)

majorpain said:


> As far as warming up goes. I stretch for maybe 5 minutes then I jump on the treadmill for no more than 10 minutes. Just enough to break a light sweat, warm the body,and get the blood flowing. I'm not running at all, just walking. Then I hit the weights. If I don't warm up then I feel like my first two sets suffer.



in all honesty this seems like to much warm up to me...

my warmup usually consists of 2 minutes of liiiight cardio on an elyptical or walking on a treadmill

then some workout specific light weight exercise

for instance
push days i will do some super light rotator cuff movements
and maybe a couple sets of 10 pushups (for me this is a super light set)

then i go straight into my workout...
my total warm up takes less than 10 minutes
and only 2-3 of that is with my feet (unless im working legs)


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## jhawkin1 (Feb 7, 2009)

warmup:  stretching/bike for either a 1/2 mile (non-leg days)  or 1 mile (leg days).


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## Merkaba (Feb 7, 2009)

nkira what is your usual warmup?


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## nkira (Feb 8, 2009)

I am attaching pictures here as there many variations in names of streaching exercises....other that the exercises in pictures i also do free squats, shoulder rotation & push-up's.


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## Ben dur (Feb 8, 2009)

static stretching is best done after your workout...
as i do believe i was instructed on this board


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## PreMier (Feb 8, 2009)

Ben dur said:


> static stretching is best done after your workout...
> as i do believe i was instructed on this board



thats correct.  i recommend reading gazhole's journal, and get some warmup ideas from it


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## johnereb (Feb 8, 2009)

When younger I never did any type of warm-up at all. Most often I was pyramiding back then so to an extent one gets warmed up doing the excercise before hitting the heaviest set. 

Now that I'm 45 I do just a bit of warm-up which typically takes just a couple of minutes unless it's really cold in which case I'll do a bit more. 

After a workout I'll do a few stretches as part of my cool down.

For myself I've never noticed much difference with regards to caffeine. I know for some people they get a real rush, some it even seems to drag down their workout but I've never noticed a difference.


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## Ben dur (Feb 8, 2009)

doesnt matter if i mix a redbull and no shotgun

glucose 
whey isolate
arganine ester ethyl
creatine
CAFFEEININININEEE

and like 50 other things

the difference in "pump" is noticable at BEST

meaning barely


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## Yanick (Feb 8, 2009)

Whats going to be harder to rip, a cold rubber band or a warm one? Get my drift.

Aside from getting the blood flowing and making your muscles and connective tissue warm, a warm up prepares your body for the stress you are about to impose on it (and training is a huge stress on your body). Your CNS is primed to fire the appropriate muscles at appropriate times (for example, a person who sits all day puts their hip extensors into a stretched position, it is helpful to do a bit of activation work on your glutes to get them firing appropriately etc), dynamic stretching acutely increases flexibility while priming your proprioceptors (muscle spindles and golgi tendon organs) to aid in injury prevention.

A warm up should not be challenging, you just need to get your core temperature up, and get yourself moving...remember you are priming your body for the torture you are about to impose on it.


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## nkira (Feb 9, 2009)

So that means even 10 mins on treadmill are good enough..right?


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## nkira (Feb 9, 2009)

Also i have been trying to find gazhole's journal......no success yet.


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## Built (Feb 9, 2009)

I wouldn't even do that. Do a dynamic warmup - it'll work better.


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## nkira (Feb 9, 2009)

Hate to ask...but what is dynamic warm-up?


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## Built (Feb 9, 2009)

Got Built? » High Intensity Interval Foreplay


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## PreMier (Feb 9, 2009)

thats why i wanted him to see this, check the dynamic warmups

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/online-journals/65487-strength-dedication-ambition-92.html


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## Yanick (Feb 9, 2009)

Check this out as well.

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/training/65122-guide-proper-warmup.html


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## Plataeu (Feb 9, 2009)

nkira said:


> Today after very long time i had the best workout .....bit confused, later it came to me that I missed the warm-up completely !!
> 
> But I was able to do complete sets with higher weights.  Got the best pumped feeling after very long time.
> 
> ...



You are more prone to injury without proper warm ups. Can you lift more after just waking up in the mornings? Or after you get up and get moving around?

Same thing with your muscles- Wake them up.


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## Built (Feb 9, 2009)

Plateau, I see the board you're spamming us with in your sig still advocates a ratio approach to diet. 

Ick.


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## jhawkin1 (Feb 9, 2009)

Built said:


> Plateau, I see the board you're spamming us with in your sig still advocates a ratio approach to diet.
> 
> Ick.



Check out the 'cutting diet' on that website compared to the great nutritionists that we have here:

6:00 a.m. 1 tall glass of cold water before meal 
1 meal replacement shake/high protein shake OR a bowl of oatmeal w/raisins and a piece of whole wheat bread w/peanut butter 



8:00 a.m. A small slice of whole wheat bread w/tablespoon of peanut butter OR a small nonfat yogurt with granola 


11:00 a.m. A whole-food lunch like a chicken breast & a salad, OR a Turkey sandwich on whole-wheat with baked potato chips. 


2:00 p.m. A meal replacement shake or high protein shake. 


5:00 p.m. A whole food dinner like tuna with light mayo on whole wheat OR a chicken breast with brown rice and steamed vegetables. 


8:00 p.m. A small serving of lean steak or chicken with steamed vegetables OR a low-fat, low-sugar protein bar (Balance, Zone, Powerbar). 


At bed: A small snack like a small bowl of cereal, a nonfat yogurt, or a protein bar (Balance Bar). 

Consume at least a galloon of water thoughout the day as well.


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## jhawkin1 (Feb 9, 2009)

Meal replacement shake for breakfast- how about some REAL protein to start off the day?

Whole wheat bread- garbage

most granola= loaded with sugar and processed

Another protein shake (non specified)

light mayo- garbage

Best meal ive seen:  chicken breast w/ brown rice and steamed veggies (might not need all those carbs though).

PROTEIN BARS:  that's a no-no.  

Bowl of cereal and a protein bar for a night snack?  


What NOT to eat when cutting.


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## Built (Feb 9, 2009)

No shit!  Great post, jh.


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## jhawkin1 (Feb 9, 2009)

Built said:


> No shit!  Great post, jh.



One and only showed me the way to glory and happiness


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## Ben dur (Feb 9, 2009)

that diet looks like one id certainly loose weight on... if i could stick to it


doesnt look very interesting though

also (and i know we dont speak in ratios)
looks like about 20% protein...

vastly insufficient to me...


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## nkira (Feb 9, 2009)

Thanks guys..... Lots to read now...


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## nkira (Feb 9, 2009)

Built said:


> Got Built? » High Intensity Interval Foreplay



Hey built i like the title....


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## nkira (Feb 10, 2009)

by the way i tried coffee again, it does work but fu**'s up my sleep.


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## Built (Feb 10, 2009)

nkira said:


> Hey built i like the title....



Glad you liked that! 



nkira said:


> by the way i tried coffee again, it does work but fu**'s up my sleep.



Try tyrosine.


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## nkira (Feb 10, 2009)

Tyrosine before bed? 

I read that This is a non-essential amino acid and it is found in casein. So can i take Optimum 100% Casein Protein or SAN :: Infusion


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## Built (Feb 10, 2009)

Tyrosine before workouts. 1-3 grams.


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## Plataeu (Feb 10, 2009)

Built said:


> Plateau, I see the board you're spamming us with in your sig still advocates a ratio approach to diet.
> 
> Ick.



Feel freeo to argue your point unless you're limited to the unnecessary "spammer" attack.

Also- If you have a problem with the articles on that forum I'm more than happy to debate with you.


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## Plataeu (Feb 10, 2009)

jhawkin1 said:


> Check out the 'cutting diet' on that website compared to the great nutritionists that we have here:
> 
> 6:00 a.m. 1 tall glass of cold water before meal
> 1 meal replacement shake/high protein shake OR a bowl of oatmeal w/raisins and a piece of whole wheat bread w/peanut butter
> ...



Once again- Feel free to elaborate on why that "cutting diet" is unnecessary. Rather than "check this out".


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## Plataeu (Feb 10, 2009)

jhawkin1 said:


> Meal replacement shake for breakfast- how about some REAL protein to start off the day?



Although I disagree with you- I have to admit you're the only one that has backed up what you have said on why you disagree. REAL protein? There is nothing wrong with 1-2 protein shakes per day.



jhawkin1 said:


> Whole wheat bread- garbage



Why?



jhawkin1 said:


> most granola= loaded with sugar and processed



You'll consume sugars in almost anything you eat. Not to mention- It was optional for a meal replacement.



jhawkin1 said:


> Another protein shake (non specified)



Any of your choice, musclemilk, whey, etc.



jhawkin1 said:


> light mayo- garbage



It does nothing but add flavour.



jhawkin1 said:


> Best meal ive seen:  chicken breast w/ brown rice and steamed veggies (might not need all those carbs though).



The _portion_ of the carbohydrates is what you need to look at, and that will be determined by the individual.



jhawkin1 said:


> PROTEIN BARS:  that's a no-no.



Not everyone has time to set around and cook 5-6 times per day. People have jobs, a family, hobbies, etc. And for those people a simple protein bar is perfectly fine.



jhawkin1 said:


> Bowl of cereal and a protein bar for a night snack?



Once again, elaborate.




jhawkin1 said:


> What NOT to eat when cutting.



Once again- What not to listen to is your advice. Unless you can further elaborate keep comments to yourself.


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## Built (Feb 10, 2009)

Plataeu said:


> jhawkin1 said:
> 
> 
> > Meal replacement shake for breakfast- how about some REAL protein to start off the day?
> ...



Nope, there isn't. Except this were your cutting guidelines and on a cut, drinking your calories is a great way to stay hungry. For the odd emergency meal, sure, it's going to be better than nothing. But for daily use? Hope you like being hungry... 



Plataeu said:


> jhawkin1 said:
> 
> 
> > Whole wheat bread- garbage
> ...


My take would be empty calories. I mean really, it's just grain. Why bother? Grain, being full of antinutrients, can leave  a body mighty hungry. Outside of a carbload, not something I'd put into a daily cutting diet, but if you're comfortable, and you can afford the calories, go for it. 



Plataeu said:


> jhawkin1 said:
> 
> 
> > most granola= loaded with sugar and processed
> ...


YOU might consume sugars in almost everything you eat. I don't. And on a cut, more grain, more sugar... gonna make you  hungry. If you don't mind, it'll WORK, but personally, for the calories, I'd rather have some hardboiled eggs, or some meat. It'll stick longer. 

All comes down to satiety. 


Plataeu said:


> jhawkin1 said:
> 
> 
> > Another protein shake (non specified)
> ...


Protein bars really are just fake food loaded with crap. Pack some raw nuts and a few hard boiled eggs. Protein and fat, REAL food, and a lot better at staving off hunger. Cheaper too. 


Plataeu said:


> jhawkin1 said:
> 
> 
> > Bowl of cereal and a protein bar for a night snack?
> ...



Why eat so much grain, bread, granola, fake food (bars and shakes) on a CUT? Surely you'd feel more comfortable on a higher fat, higher protein diet with more real food and less grain. 

Bulking, hey, go for it. Even cutting, if you're comfortable, but really, this would not be a very comfortable way to diet. 

And there's no need to cook - or eat - six times a day. Hell, I pack my food for the day and just eat something whenever I want. When it's gone, it's gone. I'd hate to think I had to eat on a schedule - pretty misarable on a diet to eat six microsnacks.

But to be fair, if this diet of yours provides below-maintenance calories AND you can stick to it, it'll "work".

You might feel like crap most of the time, but if you don't mind and you stick to it, you'll lose weight. 

My .02


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## Ben dur (Feb 10, 2009)

Plataeu said:


> Although I disagree with you- I have to admit you're the only one that has backed up what you have said on why you disagree. REAL protein? There is nothing wrong with 1-2 protein shakes per day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






id have to agree with plateau..

none of these foods would be considered things "not to eat on a cut"

shit
eat whatever you want on a cut

the idea is to consume enough of the requirements 
1 g/lb of proteing min
.5g/lb of fat
20g of fiber

consume less than maint calories

lift heavy a few times a week

concentrate on compound movements


and maintain your sanity




practically anything will "work"


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## Plataeu (Feb 10, 2009)

Built said:


> Nope, there isn't. Except this were your cutting guidelines and on a cut, drinking your calories is a great way to stay hungry. For the odd emergency meal, sure, it's going to be better than nothing. But for daily use? Hope you like being hungry...



If you're taking whey protein (conventional) with water instead of milk to avoid the consumption of simple carbohydrates / sugars, it should be fine.




jhawkin1 said:


> My take would be empty calories. I mean really, it's just grain. Why bother? Grain, being full of antinutrients, can leave  a body mighty hungry. Outside of a carbload, not something I'd put into a daily cutting diet, but if you're comfortable, and you can afford the calories, go for it.



Grain is one of the *best* source of carbohydrates you can find. When cutting you are burning more calories then you consume, eating small portions during the day with little foods at a time is a way to avoid hunger. If you avoid hunger you avoid cravings therefore increases your ability to eat foods even when you don't particularly like them.




jhawkin1 said:


> YOU might consume sugars in almost everything you eat. I don't. And on a cut, more grain, more sugar... gonna make you  hungry. If you don't mind, it'll WORK, but personally, for the calories, I'd rather have some hardboiled eggs, or some meat. It'll stick longer.



It's really hard to avoid sugars completely, anytime you eat something with any flavour, it will involve some type of sugars.




jhawkin1 said:


> Protein bars really are just fake food loaded with crap. Pack some raw nuts and a few hard boiled eggs. Protein and fat, REAL food, and a lot better at staving off hunger. Cheaper too.



Cheaper? Yes. Easier? No. It's saves a lot of time for your average person to grab a protein and head out the door rather than cook, wash the dishes, get everything together, and etc. especially when you are on a strict diet. To maintain a happier lifestyle, a protein bar a day or even cycling this with another source of food wouldn't be bad.




jhawkin1 said:


> Why eat so much grain, bread, granola, fake food (bars and shakes) on a CUT? Surely you'd feel more comfortable on a higher fat, higher protein diet with more real food and less grain.



I really don't understand the concept on consuming *fats* when trying to lose weight, fats have a total of 9 calories per gram, cutting calories is what you're trying to do here, right?



jhawkin1 said:


> But to be fair, if this diet of yours provides below-maintenance calories AND you can stick to it, it'll "work".



Agreed.


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## Built (Feb 10, 2009)

Plataeu said:


> Built said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, there isn't. Except this were your cutting guidelines and on a cut, drinking your calories is a great way to stay hungry. For the odd emergency meal, sure, it's going to be better than nothing. But for daily use? Hope you like being hungry...
> ...


Oh, it's protein, and it's calories, but it sure as hell ain't going to do much to fill you up when you're cutting.

I mean, it's not like I'm going to be drinking milk or juice under any circumstances. 

I'll stick to tuna and avocado, thanks. WAY MORE FILLING. 



Plataeu said:


> jhawkin1 said:
> 
> 
> > My take would be empty calories. I mean really, it's just grain. Why bother? Grain, being full of antinutrients, can leave  a body mighty hungry. Outside of a carbload, not something I'd put into a daily cutting diet, but if you're comfortable, and you can afford the calories, go for it.
> ...


HAHAHAHAHAHA you have GOT to be kidding! Grain's a terrible choice! I hardly even eat it when I'm bulking. 

There are WAY more satiating choices for carbohydrate while cutting. White potatoes, for example. Highest on the satiety index. Wheat isn't much of a player here. 

And there is NO way on GOD'S GREEN EARTH I'd suggest eating carbs all day while DIETING. I'd be CHEWING MY ARM OFF!



Plataeu said:


> If you avoid hunger you avoid cravings therefore increases your ability to eat foods even when you don't particularly like them.


I don't eat anything I don't like - ESPECIALLY while cutting. I only eat things that taste good - what little food I get to eat, I want to enjoy. 



Plataeu said:


> jhawkin1 said:
> 
> 
> > YOU might consume sugars in almost everything you eat. I don't. And on a cut, more grain, more sugar... gonna make you  hungry. If you don't mind, it'll WORK, but personally, for the calories, I'd rather have some hardboiled eggs, or some meat. It'll stick longer.
> ...


There isn't much in the food that I eat. Most of my diet is protein and fat. What little there is shows up in romaine, broccoli, avocados, kale, and of course the starches I eat for my carbups. 



Plataeu said:


> jhawkin1 said:
> 
> 
> > Protein bars really are just fake food loaded with crap. Pack some raw nuts and a few hard boiled eggs. Protein and fat, REAL food, and a lot better at staving off hunger. Cheaper too.
> ...


I do this every day. Seriously, it's no big deal to hardboil a dozen eggs while watching TV. 



Plataeu said:


> jhawkin1 said:
> 
> 
> > Why eat so much grain, bread, granola, fake food (bars and shakes) on a CUT? Surely you'd feel more comfortable on a higher fat, higher protein diet with more real food and less grain.
> ...



Yes. Fats are satiating. I keep mine as high as possible while cutting. I'm on about 1700 calories a day on average right now, and my fats were 90 grams today. 


Plataeu said:


> jhawkin1 said:
> 
> 
> > But to be fair, if this diet of yours provides below-maintenance calories AND you can stick to it, it'll "work".
> ...


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## Plataeu (Feb 10, 2009)

Built said:


> Oh, it's protein, and it's calories, but it sure as hell ain't going to do much to fill you up when you're cutting.



When you're on a calorie deficient, how can you expect to feel full? I mean aren't you feeding off your own fat due to lack of nutrition?




Built said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHA you have GOT to be kidding! Grain's a terrible choice! I hardly even eat it when I'm bulking.



Grain is a source of complex carbohydrates, the type of carbohydrates you *should* be consuming when cutting due to the slower aborption of the body.



Built said:


> And there is NO way on GOD'S GREEN EARTH I'd suggest eating carbs all day while DIETING. I'd be CHEWING MY ARM OFF!



As long as it's in small portions and from suitable choices.




Built said:


> I don't eat anything I don't like - ESPECIALLY while cutting. I only eat things that taste good - what little food I get to eat, I want to enjoy.



I'm not one to assume but are you saying you don't eat strict clean on diet? You could mean that you pick foods that you enjoy (that are clean), but keep in mind the first step in fat burning is liberate which means the chemical enviornment in the body has to be right for fat release. Which means your diet has to include the *right* foods instead of just anything.




Built said:


> There isn't much in the food that I eat. Most of my diet is protein and fat. What little there is shows up in romaine, broccoli, avocados, kale, and of course the starches I eat for my carbups.



Again- When cutting you are wanting to cut the calories, why choose 9 calories (1g of fat) over 4 calories (1g of carbohydrate)?




Built said:


> I do this every day. Seriously, it's no big deal to hardboil a dozen eggs while watching TV.



Yes but you should be relying on more than just eggs, which would refer to more "cooking".



Built said:


> Yes. Fats are satiating. I keep mine as high as possible while cutting. I'm on about 1700 calories a day on average right now, and my fats were 90 grams today.



I still don't think it makes sense to choose 9 calories per gram over 4 when cutting.


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## Yanick (Feb 10, 2009)

Built's main point is that satiety does not correlate with calorie density. Fat is denser in calories but it takes less of it to make you feel fuller longer...Get it?

I don't like low/no carb diets. I don't function well without them, my training suffers and i'm really irritable once i start being depleted. When i diet i carb cycle/taper and dread the low/no carb days.

I don't know if her approach would work for me (i'm willing to try anything once though), but i just remember doing CKD's and such and being miserable...just waiting for the next carb up. I like and need my carbs, even if its like 1 slice of WW bread or something.


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## PreMier (Feb 10, 2009)

plataeu, have you ever dieted down?  ever competed?  just curious.

and why are you advertising another board in your sig?


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## Built (Feb 11, 2009)

Plataeu said:


> Built said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, it's protein, and it's calories, but it sure as hell ain't going to do much to fill you up when you're cutting.
> ...




If I can't feel full at least part of the day, and satiated most of the day, I can't diet. 

I have all the inner discipline of a cat in heat. Me and that "empty" feeling don't get along very well. 


Plataeu said:


> Built said:
> 
> 
> > HAHAHAHAHAHA you have GOT to be kidding! Grain's a terrible choice! I hardly even eat it when I'm bulking.
> ...


But why eat starches through the day when protein and fat are more satiating? 



Plataeu said:


> Built said:
> 
> 
> > And there is NO way on GOD'S GREEN EARTH I'd suggest eating carbs all day while DIETING. I'd be CHEWING MY ARM OFF!
> ...


On a cut, I prefer to have larger portions in fewer meals. More satisfying. If YOU enjoy eating tiny meals with lots of grain, knock yourself out. It'll work.
You might feel comfortable this way. 

Not everyone will, and if you've ever been fat, you're likely battling insulin resistance. 

I speak from experience. 



Plataeu said:


> Built said:
> 
> 
> > I don't eat anything I don't like - ESPECIALLY while cutting. I only eat things that taste good - what little food I get to eat, I want to enjoy.
> ...


We have a winner! That's right, I eat butter, salt and chocolate WHILE CUTTING. Hell, sometimes I even eat ... BACON. 

If it fits my macros and doesn't mess up my appetite control, I eat it. 



Plataeu said:


> You could mean that you pick foods that you enjoy (that are clean), but keep in mind the first step in fat burning is liberate which means the chemical enviornment in the body has to be right for fat release. Which means your diet has to include the *right* foods instead of just anything.


Prove it. 


Plataeu said:


> Built said:
> 
> 
> > There isn't much in the food that I eat. Most of my diet is protein and fat. What little there is shows up in romaine, broccoli, avocados, kale, and of course the starches I eat for my carbups.
> ...


I was obese. Carbs make me hungry. Fats are satiating. 
I'm not alone. 


Plataeu said:


> Built said:
> 
> 
> > I do this every day. Seriously, it's no big deal to hardboil a dozen eggs while watching TV.
> ...


YOU should be relying on more than protein bars and protein powder. 

What's your point?


Plataeu said:


> Built said:
> 
> 
> > Yes. Fats are satiating. I keep mine as high as possible while cutting. I'm on about 1700 calories a day on average right now, and my fats were 90 grams today.
> ...



If they were equally satiating, this would be a no-brainer. But protein is the most satiating of all the macronutrients, followed by fats and then carbohydrate. Much of this is related to postprandial CCK. You can look into this more if you like.

You appear to have done some reading, Plateau, but not much of it is current. 

I invite you to read the following authors, for your continuing education:

Lyle McDonald  Lyle McDonald - Bodyrecomposition
Anthony Colpo Anthony Colpo - AnthonyColpo.com
John Berardi Dr. John Berardi, Ph.D.
Martin Berkhan  Leangains - Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss

One of our members here has an excellent blog: Nigee's Diet & Nutrition Blog

Many others await, and of course, there's always my very good friend, PubMed Home

Welcome to the present.


----------



## nkira (Feb 11, 2009)

Well i never though that this could flare up a argument......Hope doesn't end up locking the thread....Anyways.


----------



## Plataeu (Feb 11, 2009)

Built said:


> If I can't feel full at least part of the day, and satiated most of the day, I can't diet.



Once again- I still can't understand how you'll feel full burning more calories than your consuming.



Built said:


> I have all the inner discipline of a cat in heat. Me and that "empty" feeling don't get along very well.
> 
> But why eat starches through the day when protein and fat are more satiating?



Carbohydrates aren't only used for energy. Energy is carbs primary function however they are used for brain function and fueling muscle growth as well. Now- I know at catabolic state (whilst cutting) you won't build hypertrophy (not likely anyway) but to maintain muscle density the carbohydrates will help out significantly.




Built said:


> On a cut, I prefer to have larger portions in fewer meals. More satisfying. If YOU enjoy eating tiny meals with lots of grain, knock yourself out. It'll work.
> You might feel comfortable this way.



I've never cut. My cutting phase starts the second week of March. 



Built said:


> I speak from experience.



There's not doubt you have more than this than I do. I am only 19 years old and have only been training for three years. However- I do know a thing or two about dieting and bodybuilding / powerlifting in general.




Built said:


> We have a winner! That's right, I eat butter, salt and chocolate WHILE CUTTING. Hell, sometimes I even eat ... BACON.



I'm not sure why you respond to this, but I won't argue your results.



Built said:


> Prove it.



I will do that indeed. It may take me a day or so to find it, but I will do so and I will post it.



Built said:


> I was obese. Carbs make me hungry. Fats are satiating.
> I'm not alone.



The key to not allowing yourself to get hungry is to eat _little_ and _often_. By not allowing yourself to get hungry, you are allowing yourself better choice in meals.



Built said:


> YOU should be relying on more than protein bars and protein powder.



I don't even consume protein bars. I said it's down to individual preferance. You're eating bacon, butter, and other fats yet shooting down a protein bar?



Built said:


> You appear to have done some reading, Plateau, but not much of it is current.



I'm assuming you called me smart but saying "you have appear to have done some reading" and I appreciate it. Hopefully I've proven I'm not some spammer that trolls with no knowledge on the subject they preach. 



Built said:


> I invite you to read the following authors, for your continuing education:
> 
> Lyle McDonald  Lyle McDonald - Bodyrecomposition
> Anthony Colpo Anthony Colpo - AnthonyColpo.com
> ...



I will read, although when it comes to losing fat, I prefer reading things from guys like Tom Virtuo.


----------



## Built (Feb 11, 2009)

Plataeu said:


> Once again- I still can't understand how you'll feel full burning more calories than your consuming.


That's because you've never dieted this way. 

This is how Atkins works. You eat food that's more satiating and you automatically eat less.




Plataeu said:


> Carbohydrates aren't only used for energy. Energy is carbs primary function however they are used for brain function and fueling muscle growth as well. Now- I know at catabolic state (whilst cutting) you won't build hypertrophy (not likely anyway) but to maintain muscle density the carbohydrates will help out significantly.


Not while cutting they don't. You want to be insulin resistant while cutting, to protect lean mass. 

Seriously, read Lyle for more on this. It'll do you a world of good. 


Plataeu said:


> I've never cut. My cutting phase starts the second week of March.


This says a lot right here. How juicy are you, Plat? How much fat do you have to drop?



Plataeu said:


> There's not doubt you have more than this than I do. I am only 19 years old and have only been training for three years. However- I do know a thing or two about dieting and bodybuilding / powerlifting in general.


Yes, you know a thing, or two. 



Plataeu said:


> I'm not sure why you respond to this, but I won't argue your results.


Most of my diet is pretty basic. I eat whole, natural foods. Butter is a whole, natural food and very healthy. Salt is very helpful while cutting because it has flavour with zero calories, and it helps your muscles work by helping them stay hydrated. Chocolate is a natural food, healthy fat, natural sugar. I don't eat much of it, but I do slip a little in as my calories afford. 

Bacon's just tasty. I rarely eat it because I prefer to spend the calories on food that I find more satiating. But I'm not above a slice once or twice a week if hubby's got some in the pan.  



Plataeu said:


> I will do that indeed. It may take me a day or so to find it, but I will do so and I will post it.


Awesome. 



Plataeu said:


> The key to not allowing yourself to get hungry is to eat _little_ and _often_. By not allowing yourself to get hungry, you are allowing yourself better choice in meals.


Actually, no. On a cut, most of us do better eating infrequently, but with larger meals. Keeping starches to a minumum is helpful here. So is keeping protein HIGH. 



Plataeu said:


> I don't even consume protein bars. I said it's down to individual preferance. You're eating bacon, butter, and other fats yet shooting down a protein bar?


Butter and the other fats I eat are healthy. Butter is a healthy, natural source of good saturated, monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fat. I eat it every day. 

I also eat raw nuts every day, olive oil, egg yolks and an avocado. 



Plataeu said:


> I'm assuming you called me smart but saying "you have appear to have done some reading" and I appreciate it. Hopefully I've proven I'm not some spammer that trolls with no knowledge on the subject they preach.
> I will read, although when it comes to losing fat, I prefer reading things from guys like Tom Virtuo.


I think you mean "Venuto".

He's very good at marketing himself. He's one of the first people most of us run into when we hit the electronic world of physical culture. 

I prefer to read and apply principals that work. Hence the reading list I offered you. 

Listen - you are a young healthy male who has barely enough information to be dangerous. Do yourself a favour and read people who know more than you do.


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## Plataeu (Feb 11, 2009)

Built said:


> That's because you've never dieted this way.



Yes I have. It's how I bulked.



Built said:


> This is how Atkins works. You eat food that's more satiating and you automatically eat less.



I've heard of this.



Built said:


> Seriously, read Lyle for more on this. It'll do you a world of good.



I will do so.



Built said:


> This says a lot right here. How juicy are you, Plat? How much fat do you have to drop?



I'd prefer to get down to about 10%. I'm roughly 20% at the moment. Give or take.



Built said:


> Most of my diet is pretty basic. I eat whole, natural foods. Butter is a whole, natural food and very healthy. Salt is very helpful while cutting because it has flavour with zero calories, and it helps your muscles work by helping them stay hydrated. Chocolate is a natural food, healthy fat, natural sugar. I don't eat much of it, but I do slip a little in as my calories afford.



Sugars in protein bars come from chocolate. There are also peanut butter and etc.



Built said:


> Bacon's just tasty. I rarely eat it because I prefer to spend the calories on food that I find more satiating. But I'm not above a slice once or twice a week if hubby's got some in the pan.



Relying on  your taste buds to alert you when and what to eat is just dangerous to your eating habbits.



Built said:


> Actually, no. On a cut, most of us do better eating infrequently, but with larger meals. Keeping starches to a minumum is helpful here. So is keeping protein HIGH.



I agree with keeping protein high, when cutting the fat / carb intake should be the only thing to change but I don't agree with raising fats for the sake of "satisfying your taste buds" and neglecting complex carbs, oatmeal being an example.



Built said:


> I think you mean "Venuto".



Indeed.



Built said:


> Listen - you are a young healthy male who has barely enough information to be dangerous. Do yourself a favour and read people who know more than you do.



I'm unsure what you refer to as "dangerous". But the same conclusion could be provided to you and your "eat fat to lose fat scenario".


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## nkira (Feb 11, 2009)

This is not gonna stop....


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## Merkaba (Feb 11, 2009)

this is TOO funny.  How can someone who never cut speak in absolutes about Cutting?  Grain as a top carb source, you don't understand how you can feel full on a cut? Youre saying it could be dangerous to eat fat to lose fat?yea if youre dumb enough to eat nothing but sat and trans.  Youre still on the "20 small meals a day" kick,  arguing whats easier to do at home over what works, rebutting about your knowlege base from authors you can't remember doesnt exactly build credibility either.  Built has more patience than me, I'm no going to repeat her except to say that you do appear to have just enough knowledge to be dangerous.  Pay attention to some new authors, and maybe to the forum rules too!  The true fitness community?  With the administrator speaking of negative calorie foods, lol...NO THANKS!!!...HXC FITNESS • View topic - Negative Calorie Food


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## Plataeu (Feb 11, 2009)

Merkaba said:


> this is TOO funny.  How can someone who never cut speak in absolutes about Cutting?  Grain as a top carb source, you don't understand how you can feel full on a cut? Youre saying it could be dangerous to eat fat to lose fat?yea if youre dumb enough to eat nothing but sat and trans.  Youre still on the "20 small meals a day" kick,  arguing whats easier to do at home over what works, rebutting about your knowlege base from authors you can't remember doesnt exactly build credibility either.  Built has more patience than me, I'm no going to repeat her except to say that you do appear to have just enough knowledge to be dangerous.  Pay attention to some new authors, and maybe to the forum rules too!  The true fitness community?  With the administrator speaking of negative calorie foods, lol...NO THANKS!!!...HXC FITNESS • View topic - Negative Calorie Food




First of all lets get your shit straight, He posted that a part as interesting read on a new scientific study being done about, he just gave a tid bit about it, he clearly stated that this is in THEORY!!! Learn to fucking read. First of yall are some very dumbass fuckin people, everybody is diffrent in their genealogical make up and biological these factors play a major role in the way we build our bodies, every body responds to things in a different way, my way of things may not be best for you but might work for others. All yall responses had retorts back to my forum, yall cant stick on topic? obviously not if yall cant handle a debate when getting beat.


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## Built (Feb 11, 2009)

Buddy's 20% bodyfat. Let's see how he feels on his low-fat, high-complex carb diet eating grains, bars and shakes 6 times a day when he's dropped down to 10% bodyfat. 

Plat, you sound like you're very invested in how you believe this process works, and you'll likely try VERY hard to make it work. Hell, at 19, with all that test and GH courtesy of your youth and male gender, you might even be able to pull it off. 

"Yes I have. It's how I bulked." BULKING, you bet, eat lots of carbs, spread your meals out across the day. It's a good idea. It helps you eat more food without feeling bloated. 

Cutting - it's a different story, and that's what I meant when I said "you've never dieted this way". I should have clarified to say "You've never CUT this way". (We were talking about cutting so that was the context I used)

Quite in fact, you've never cut at all - and you're arguing with people who have lived this lifestyle for many years. Among the posters in this thread you'll find published authors and competitive bodybuilders. Hell, have a look at Merkaba's pix - he's a natural bodybuilder whom I helped prep for his show last year. Ask him how he dieted down, and how he'll do it this time.


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## Hench (Feb 11, 2009)

Plataeu said:


> First of all lets get your shit straight, He posted that a part as interesting read on a new scientific study being done about, he just gave a tid bit about it, he clearly stated that this is in THEORY!!! Learn to fucking read. First of yall are some very dumbass fuckin people, everybody is diffrent in their genealogical make up and biological these factors play a major role in the way we build our bodies, every body responds to things in a different way, my way of things may not be best for you but might work for others. All yall responses had retorts back to my forum, yall cant stick on topic? obviously not if yall cant handle a debate when getting beat.



 you aint winning shit kid.

You havent backed up any of your points, and you clearly havent read the info that Built posted for you. 

Youve also never been on a cut, try one then tell us we know fuck all. And the reason people keep mentioning you other board is because its not allowed to be in your sig, take it down.


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## Plataeu (Feb 11, 2009)

If you got a problem with any of those post on that forum keep it on their forum and there turf and bring a civil debate there, yall keep running back there for responses to my answers which is lame


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## Yanick (Feb 11, 2009)

Built said:
			
		

> You want to be insulin resistant while cutting, to protect lean mass.



Source?

Not arguing, just want some edumacation


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## Ben dur (Feb 11, 2009)

Yanick said:


> Source?
> 
> Not arguing, just want some edumacation



agreed
i want info

i dont understand the whole concept behind insulin resistance

i thought we wanted to be insulin sensitive..
never really gave it any thought or research though.


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## Plataeu (Feb 11, 2009)

Built you bring up a excellent point and I commend you on keeping a civil debate however,

moondogg if all you can reply with is a lame retort and not providing actual information gtfo, I am no kid I am 19, If this board had a problem with my sig they would have taken it down. Ignorant people these days damn shame


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## Hench (Feb 11, 2009)

Plataeu said:


> Built you bring up a excellent point and I commend you on keeping a civil debate however,
> 
> moondogg if all you can reply with is a lame retort and not providing actual information gtfo, I am no kid I am 19, If this board had a problem with my sig they would have taken it down. Ignorant people these days damn shame



I do my best to help people, as long as they want my help. You want to shout your points at us and say were wrong even after Built gave you information to read. Your sig - read the rules, open chat forum I believe.

What the hell does gtfo mean? And as I said above the info was provided for you by Built, but you seem to have ignored it.


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## Yanick (Feb 11, 2009)

Ben dur said:


> agreed
> i want info
> 
> i dont understand the whole concept behind insulin resistance
> ...



My opinion is you never want anyone to be insulin resistant, for any reason.

I don't know if the dieting gurus are pushing new methods now  a days, but thats one that i'd be hesitant to get behind.


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## Built (Feb 11, 2009)

Plat, please get your board out of your sig. I could issue you an infraction for this, or ban you. 

Re insulin resistance and why it's helpful while cutting - Lyle says it best:



> ...the thing to realize is what insulin resistance actually implies. Insulin is a storage hormone, stimulating nutrient uptake in many tissues (including liver, muscle, and fat cells). This is especially true for glucose.
> 
> So what happens when fat cells are insulin resistant? It means that insulin can't inhibit lipolysis (fat breakdown). Nor can it activate nutrient storage. This is part of why severely insulin resistannt individuals get increased blood levels of glucose, fatty acids and cholesterol, insulin is unable to either limit release from the cell or stimulate uptake. Since muscle is full (see below), they either get stored in inappropriate places (beta-cells of the liver) or float around in the bloodstream.
> 
> ...


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## Hench (Feb 11, 2009)

Great read. Brought things together that I didnt realise were related.


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## Yanick (Feb 11, 2009)

Okay Built, good read. I hope you don't mind me prying a bit, i tend to look at things from a medical stand point (where insulin resistance is considered pre-diabetes->high blood sugar->microvascular changes etc).

So what Lyle says make sense theoretically. My question is how would one go about creating an insulin resistant state while eating none or low insulinogenic foods such as low carb diets advise? It seems to entail making yourself obese and then going into a calorie deficit.

I see what he's getting at, but the problems with insulin resistance isn't only the obesity and high serum insulin, the hyperglycemia is what leads to all of the negative sequelae surrounding diabetes complications. And you can't become insulin resistant without chronic episodes of hyperglycemia (unless, once again i missed something).


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## Built (Feb 11, 2009)

Isn't it interesting?

I was particularly chamed when I read this, because every other time I dieted, I had tried "low fat with cardio". When I did Atkins back in 2001, my body just LOOKED different. I now realize this is because I maintained more lean mass. Low carb dieters tend to lose more fat and less muscle than high carb dieters. http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/pdf/1743-7075-3-9.pdf

I felt redeemed for all the naysayers who told me my muscles would disappear (while my bones melted and my brain turned to goo).


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## jhawkin1 (Feb 11, 2009)

Let's put a smile on that face!  20 percent body fat vs the ripped avatar. I've seen significant results. Plus 1 for built!  I'm ready for mcdonalds ud2.0 in March!


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## Built (Feb 11, 2009)

Yanick said:


> Okay Built, good read. I hope you don't mind me prying a bit, i tend to look at things from a medical stand point (where insulin resistance is considered pre-diabetes->high blood sugar->microvascular changes etc).


Not at all, this is a good point to bring up. My knowledge on this is cursory at best, but I'll share what little I know. 


Yanick said:


> So what Lyle says make sense theoretically. My question is how would one go about creating an insulin resistant state while eating none or low insulinogenic foods such as low carb diets advise? It seems to entail making yourself obese and then going into a calorie deficit.
> 
> I see what he's getting at, but the problems with insulin resistance isn't only the obesity and high serum insulin, the hyperglycemia is what leads to all of the negative sequelae surrounding diabetes complications. And you can't become insulin resistant without chronic episodes of hyperglycemia (unless, once again i missed something).



This is diet-induced IR, and it's reversible. 

Put it this way - when I was obese, I took Metformin. 

Now that I'm no longer obese, I can tolerate carbs a lot better, and without Metformin, particularly when I'm not dieting but rather eating at maintenance. 

On a cut, nobody's going hypercaloric - nobody's storing ANYTHING, outside of refeeds, and if you do these right, most of that goes to muscle glycogen. 

You gotta remember that a depletion workout sets you up to supercompensate. Look at the research surrounding GLUT4 and exercise - with movement, GLUT4 translocate to the muscle cell surface, and you become preferentially insulin sensitive during this time. That's why a) the post workout window is a good time to get in glucose and glucose polymers (ie starches) and b) why a walk after dinner is, indeed, good for you - it helps "work in" the glucose into the muscles.


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## fufu (Feb 11, 2009)

nkira said:


> Today after very long time i had the best workout .....bit confused, later it came to me that I missed the warm-up completely !!
> 
> But I was able to do complete sets with higher weights.  Got the best pumped feeling after very long time.
> 
> ...



You reduce the function of the golgi tendon organ when you statically stretch before exercises, this reduction lessens the stretch reflex of a muscle. The stretch reflex is the elastic quality that exists in muscle tissue, in simple terms - if the stretch reflex is reduced, the muscles don't "snap" back as quickly when stretched out, and this can have a significant affect on strength and power training.

Similar to what Yanick alluded to, if you take a rubber band and hold it in a stretched position for a long time it will not snap back as forcefully if you stretch it and immediately let go.

Also, I wouldn't worry about warming up too much and "wasting energy". You want to prepare the muscles for work by warming them and increasing blood flow (they go hand-in-hand). Dynamic warm ups also prepare the central nervous system for the mechanical stress put on the body through exercise. 

Intensive warm ups should help you to increase your performance, if your warm ups are affecting your performance negatively, then there are probably more important underlying factors affecting you.


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## johnereb (Feb 11, 2009)

Thanks Built! Your input has made this a great thread.


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## Built (Feb 11, 2009)

Nice post fufu - I'll be hanging onto this one.


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## Yanick (Feb 11, 2009)

Built, i guess i see what you're saying. I gotta get to work now and can't read the review you posted, but i'll let this simmer in the ole' noggin for a few hours and see what will come of this. Maybe tomorrow i'll hit up pubmed/medscape and see what i can come up with.

Re: the GLUT4 receptor, its been a while since i've read the literature but isn't it necessary to pass a certain intensity threshold to elicit the translocation? I was under the impression that training with weights would do it, but not something like walking. I do like, and encourage, walks after dinner but not for the reason you stated.

Oh and Fufu knocked that one out of the ball park, he said it way better than me. Good job big guy.


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## fufu (Feb 11, 2009)

thanks guys


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## Built (Feb 11, 2009)

Yanick, that's a good question. If you have anything for me on thresholds, I'm all ears.


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## P-funk (Feb 11, 2009)

I could have sworn that I have read stuff on exercise intensity and GLUT4 translocation.  I believe Yan and I have had that conversation many moons ago when we used to work together and post on the old avant labs site.

Anyhoo, this is all I could find at the moment:

*Exercise regulation of glucose transport in skeletal muscle*

_Am J Physiol. 1997 Dec;273(6 Pt 1):E1039-51. _

Tatsuya Hayashi1, Jørgen F. P. Wojtaszewski2, and Laurie J. Goodyear1 

Full text here.




> To test the hypothesis that the translocation of glucose transporters is a major mechanism by which physical exercise increases glucose uptake, initial experiments studied skeletal muscles obtained from rats that were exercised by running on a motorized rodent treadmill. By use of either the Hirshman/Grimditch or Klip fractionation technique, in all but one study (113) exercise has consistently been reported to increase the number of glucose transporters in the plasma membrane fraction (Table 1) (23-25, 29, 36-38, 49, 102, 106). In addition, sciatic nerve stimulation, resulting in contraction of hindlimb skeletal muscles in situ, also increases plasma membrane glucose transporter number in the rat (9, 27, 31, 39). The exercise-induced translocation of glucose transporters is due to an increase in the plasma membrane content of the GLUT-4 isoform, because a single bout of exercise does not alter the abundance of plasma membrane GLUT-1 (23, 36, 38) or GLUT-5 (66). Exercise-induced GLUT-4 translocation occurs in both red and white skeletal muscle fibers (38) and also apparently occurs in response to swim exercise in rats (16). In addition to subcellular fractionation methods, sarcolemmal giant vesicles have been prepared and used to study the effects of exercise on GLUT-4 translocation in skeletal muscle (94). *Although the use of these giant vesicles is limited because of very low protein recoveries and a failure to respond to insulin stimulation (94), this technique has recently been used to demonstrate that both maximal (67) and submaximal (68) bicycle exercise significantly increases sarcolemmal GLUT-4 protein in human vastus lateralis muscle. *



patrick


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## Built (Feb 11, 2009)

Ooooh, thank you for this. 

So even moderate activity increases GLUT-4 expression, am I reading this correctly?


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## P-funk (Feb 11, 2009)

That's what it says.  Honestly, I know this will sound bad, but I have so much fucking shit to read regarding soft tissue work and biomechanics, that I don't have time to look at the references.  Go to the original study link and check the references they site for maximal (67) and sub-maximal (68) intensity and give those a look as far as what they came up with.

patrick


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## Built (Feb 11, 2009)

No, that's fine, I don't expect you to do my reading for me. 

It's here:
AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism, Vol 272, Issue 3 E385-E389, Copyright © 1997 by American Physiological Society



> Progressive increase in glucose transport and GLUT-4 in human sarcolemmal vesicles during moderate exercise
> S. Kristiansen, M. Hargreaves and E. A. Richter
> Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre, University of Copenhagen, Denmark.
> 
> Muscle glucose uptake increases progressively during moderate-intensity exercise. To elucidate whether this is due to a progressive increase in sarcolemmal glucose transport capacity, nine men exercised for 40 min at 75% maximal oxygen uptake on a bicycle ergometer. Muscle biopsies were obtained from the vastus lateralis at rest (0 min) and after 5 and 40 min of exercise and used for production of sarcolemmal giant (SG) vesicles. SG vesicle glucose transport at 5 mM increased (P < 0.05) by 38 and 93% after 5 and 40 min of exercise, respectively, compared with glucose transport at rest. The SG vesicle GLUT-4 protein content increased (P < 0.05) by 36 and 91% after 5 and 40 min of exercise, respectively, compared with rest. Thus the increase in vesicle glucose transport was accompanied by a similar increase in SG vesicle GLUT-4 protein content. Muscle glucose and glucose 6-phosphate were low at rest, increased (P < 0.05) 2.2- and 2.3-fold, respectively, after 5 min of exercise, and returned to resting values after 40 min of exercise. It is concluded that the progressive increase in muscle glucose uptake during moderate-intensity exercise may be due at least in part to a progressive increase in sarcolemmal glucose transport and GLUT-4 protein content.



This jives with what I had read last year when I first started to investigate methods to improve carb loading in insulin-resistant folks (okay, ME. It's ALWAYS about ME!). When type I diabetics do moderate activity, their blood sugar drops because GLUT-4 translocate. In non-type-I diabetics, pancreatic insulin secretion is dialled back, but diabetics have to do this pre-emptively by injecting less insulin pre-exercise - or they have to ward off the crash with some strategic glucose.

Intense activity RAISES blood glucose through a pre-emptive stress response - since the body is anticipating a sudden dramatic increase in muscular activity, catecholamine is generated, mediating gluconeogenesis and subsequent hepatic glucose release.

I think.


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## Merkaba (Feb 11, 2009)

Plataeu said:


> First of all lets get your shit straight, He posted that a part as interesting read on a new scientific study being done about, he just gave a tid bit about it, he clearly stated that this is in THEORY!!! Learn to fucking read. First of yall are some very dumbass fuckin people, everybody is diffrent in their genealogical make up and biological these factors play a major role in the way we build our bodies, every body responds to things in a different way, my way of things may not be best for you but might work for others. All yall responses had retorts back to my forum, yall cant stick on topic? obviously not if yall cant handle a debate when getting beat.



People are talking about that weak ass forum in your sig because of what Built is recommending to you now.

New scientific study?     Man don't screw with me!

Everyone does have different makeups but you still digest and process food the same way.  Based on your logic, why argue any point, why not just shut up and say everyone has different bodies, wah wah...  The truth is you can't come on this forum and start spouting off without knowing your shlt.  Sorry you found out the hard way.  Maybe you could throw your weight around on that other weak ass forum but not around here kiddo!  Obviously you're realizing this and you feel backed into a corner and threatened now you lash out.  All too typical.  Grow up.


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## Ben dur (Feb 11, 2009)

the amount of good knowledge is absolutely mind boggling


yet the guy was still arguing his point...
wtf?


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## Built (Feb 12, 2009)

Merkaba said:


> People are talking about that weak ass forum in your sig because of what Built is recommending to you now.
> 
> New scientific study?     Man don't screw with me!


Negative calorie food - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The only sources in wikipedia point to urban legends and a book that exposes health myths. 

So I tried google: first hit (I'm FAMOUS for those!)
Negative Calorie Foods
Doesn't look promising. 

Pubmed provided no love for the negative calorie food, either. 

So sad.


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## Gazhole (Feb 12, 2009)

Best thread in training for a while, nice going all 

Plateau, Built already told you but i'll just re-iterate in case it got lost in the posts - unless you're a board sponsor or similar, you're not allowed links to other forums/sites in your sig.

Try to learn from this thread, also. And check your sources before making points.


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## nkira (Feb 12, 2009)

Gazhole's right rules are rules. Plateau, did you read the forum rules?

I feel as if my thread is hijacked...


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## P-funk (Feb 12, 2009)

nkira said:


> Gazhole's right rules are rules. Plateau, did you read the forum rules?
> 
> I feel as if my thread is hijacked...




don't worry, your thread is not hijacked...

warm up properly.  not to much. not to little.

patrick


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## nkira (Feb 12, 2009)

Yes Sir...... Thanks for all the help that everyone is giving.


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## johnereb (Feb 12, 2009)

Hijacked or not, this has been a great and informative thread!


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## Just_Moe (Feb 12, 2009)

if you use the bow flex to get hyoooge jacked then no need to warm up at all...right Plateau?


just sayin.....


_*dynamic warm ups FTW _


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## fufu (Feb 12, 2009)

You know, I saw a lot of "you are going to be hungry when on a caloric deficit" in this thread. That is totally untrue. Sure, it may be harder to get full, but it is very possible if you do it right.

While fat contains much more calories per gram than protein or carbohydrates, it sits in the gut for a much longer period of time do to emulsification processes. When combined with fiber and other nutrients, the fat can really slow down digestion substantially. Due to those reasons, an increased fat intake (and lowered carbohydrate to equate the caloric situation) will increase an overall feeling of satiety throughout the day. 

Plus, carbs will often make people feel more hungry than they were before eating them. When people consume carbs, they will often crave more, leaving a feeling of hungriness, making it harder to diet.

So, to feel full when you diet, do both of these things - increase your fats, decrease your carbs and eat a ton of vegetables. So keep those things in mind and eat your carbohydrates when you need them (exercise and recovery).


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## nkira (Feb 12, 2009)

I am in better control of eating since i started whey, for fat i use fish & flax oil.


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