# Eating before bed (carbs)........



## P-funk (Apr 5, 2007)

I know this is a hot topic.  here was something Alan Aragon said in an interview he did for Lyle McDonald's newsletter regarding a question about eating carbs in the last meal when cutting:



> When you stop to think about it, allocating carbs immediately pre-bed would potentially help with muscle retention, regardless of caloric balance. Purposely omitting or avoiding carbs pre-bed is like telling someone to avoid carbs immediately before starting their 8-hour shift sitting at a desk.




questions, comments, concerns.

I eat carbs before bed all the time.  Even when cutting and even when I did a BB'ing contest.  I tend to agree with his statement.


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## Tom_B (Apr 5, 2007)

I fell the same way P-funk, I personally always have about 30-35G of carbs or so coming from Cottage cheese, strawberries and wheat bran before bed. (some days 60 - 70G of carbs, depending on if I have two servings of my last meal or not  .. I'm a pig).
I find the carbs help to maintain glycogen stores overnight without having huge impact on blood sugar, or insulin levels which is a great advantage for me considering I work out practically first thing in the am. 

At the end of the day it's going to come down to Calories in vs Calories out as to whether or not your pre bed meal (be it with carbs or not) is stored as fat.

Here's a nice post from Emma-Leigh in the past


Emma-Leigh said:


> Well - insulin sensitivity and the bodies ability to take carbs out of the blood stream are pretty much the same thing...
> 
> But all I can say is "Not really" -
> 
> ...


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## P-funk (Apr 5, 2007)

yea.  I agree 100%.  I think the whole not eating carbs at bed thing is blown out of proportion.

that Emma Leigh is one smart cookie (hmmm....maybe I will have cookies before bed).


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## Jodi (Apr 5, 2007)

Nope, I disagree completely!

As I've said in the past.....carbs before bed........

1. Circadian Rhythm disturbance
2. Increase Cortisol
3. Interferes with utilization of IGF-1


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## vortrit (Apr 5, 2007)

I'm not going to tell someone else what to eat or not eat before bed, but I know for a fact I don't sleep well at all if I have very many carbs before bed.


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## Emma-Leigh (Apr 6, 2007)

As tom stated - I have long been known to advocate carbs at night... Constantly get 'shot down' about it... but I tell people to eat carbs and my pre-bed meal is one of my largest.



Some other posts I have posted in the past on people asking about 'pre-bed meals'-



> I would grab something with all three macro's. The carbs can actually be REALLY helpful in replenishing liver glycogen before you sleep (and this is not only highly anabolic, but is anti-catabolic too). You would also want some fibre and fats (to slow digestion) and, of course, your slow digesting protein.





> So something like oats with cottage cheese, walnuts/linseeds, skim milk and berries would be a good example.


 


And another one here:




> Firstly - your metabolism doesn't 'slow' markedly at night time.... Your ACTIVITY level decreases (and, yes, as such your energy needs WILL be less than during the day) but your body is still 'ticking over' and it still burns at a basal rate (a lot of people confuse 'basal metabolism' and 'total energy expenditure' and these two things are entirely seperate and should be thought of as such).





> My opinion on pre-bed meals.... While total daily calorie consumption is the *greatest* influence on what your body does (that is - if you grow or if you lose fat) manipulating energy intake and ensuring you are eating well at strategic times can have specific effects, especially for those who are very lean already.
> As everyone is probably aware - night time is when growth hormone levels are higher (well - earlier in the evening and during the light phases of sleep). Night time is also when cortisol levels begins to peak (early in the morning - starts to rise about 3am ish, and stays up until about 8am... which is - at least according to a theory I have - why ill/hospitalised or elderly people usually happen to die during this time).
> Anyway - making sure you eat to maximise/minimise the effects of these is something you can do... So pre-bed meal as an important area where you can prevent muscle loss if cutting (minimise the effect of the cortisol peak) and help to promote anabolism if trying to grow (maximise the effects of both the growth hormone release as well as ensuring hepatic glycogen stores are never completely empty).
> [Of course - the other important meals being the first meal of the day, pre workout and, to a certain extent, post workout as well].
> ...


 



And again:


> Your body doesn't give a brass-ra-zoo about the "time". It doesn't flick a switch at 6pm and say "all carbs now ingested shall have one fate - to become baby fat cells"...
> 
> Ok... yes - insulin sensitivity will be SLIGHTLY decreased at night... But the magnitude of this decrease is insignificant.
> 
> ...


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## Tom_B (Apr 6, 2007)

^^^ Like P-funk said you certainly are one smart cookie!!
And that is the reason I have sooo many of your posts bookmarked and read over 24/7 hahaha. Seriously you're like a medical journal!


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## P-funk (Apr 6, 2007)

Jodi said:


> Nope, I disagree completely!
> 
> As I've said in the past.....carbs before bed........
> 
> ...



all good arguments.

Gotta go to work (yuk, long day....blah).

Will be back tonight to try and find some research.


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## tucker01 (Apr 6, 2007)

Working on Good Friday ouch... NO HOLIDAY FOR YOU


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## Witchblade (Apr 6, 2007)

Okay, I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

1. The pro eat-carbs-before-bed group hasn't adressed jodi's 3 points (especially 2 as it contradicts what Emma said directly).

2. That study doesn't mean anything. It's about an unbalanced diet firstly and about evening VS morning meals secondly. The subjects did not have a balanced diet and the study doesn't talk about carbs before bed at all. It's completely unrelated to this discussion.

3. How big is the night time glycogen depletion effect really if you ingest fats and protein before bed seeing you're completely inactive? And if the depletion levels are so big, why would you only need 50g of carbs to negate them?


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## Jodi (Apr 6, 2007)

IainDaniel said:


> Working on Good Friday ouch... NO HOLIDAY FOR YOU


  We don't get good friday off here in the states


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## BulkMeUp (Apr 6, 2007)

Jodi said:


> We don't get good friday off here in the states


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## Uthinkso (Apr 6, 2007)

IainDaniel said:


> Working on Good Friday ouch... NO HOLIDAY FOR YOU



He's not the only one I'm posting from my QC Lab right now.


Good thread...I'm keeping an eye on this. All good information.


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## Jodi (Apr 6, 2007)

I'd like to throw this study to the discussion as well.

Extended effects of evening meal carbohydrate-to-fat ratio on fasting and postprandial substrate metabolism -- Robertson et al. 75 (3): 505 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition


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## ABCs (Apr 6, 2007)

I don't know much about this topic but wouldn't your body type, training history, and genetics play a pretty big role on how carbs would effect you before bed?


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## Jodi (Apr 6, 2007)

ABCs said:


> I don't know much about this topic but wouldn't your body type, training history, and genetics play a pretty big role on how carbs would effect you before bed?


Most definately!


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## Jodi (Apr 6, 2007)

And another:  Circadian modulation of glucose and insulin responses to meals: relationship to cortisol rhythm -- Van Cauter et al. 262 (4): E467 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism


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## Uthinkso (Apr 6, 2007)

Jodi's not gonna take this one laying down


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## Jodi (Apr 6, 2007)

I think it's good for everyone to see both sides of the fence.

I do need to note here though that almost everyone that has asked about carbs in the evening are those struggling with their weight for years now and this really needs to be taken into account. 

Trust me, I wish I had the metabolism that Emma, Pfunk and TomB has but I don't, I never will, and I know most of the people reading this don't either.  Not to say they are wrong, because sure, for the healthy, fast metabolsim folks they can get away with this a little better but most of us are not as fortunate.


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## Bakerboy (Apr 6, 2007)

IainDaniel said:


> Working on Good Friday ouch... NO HOLIDAY FOR YOU



Canada 23 USA 0


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## Double D (Apr 6, 2007)

Jodi said:


> I think it's good for everyone to see both sides of the fence.
> 
> I do need to note here though that almost everyone that has asked about carbs in the evening are those struggling with their weight for years now and this really needs to be taken into account.
> 
> Trust me, I wish I had the metabolism that Emma, Pfunk and TomB has but I don't, I never will, and I know most of the people reading this don't either.  Not to say they are wrong, because sure, for the healthy, fast metabolsim folks they can get away with this a little better but most of us are not as fortunate.



Oh so right on!


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## Jodi (Apr 6, 2007)

Many of us have the genetic code for fatness.  Since I was a child I've struggled with my weight and it wasn't because I didn't exercise enough or ate like shit all the time.  Sure, when I was younger I ate a lot worse than I do now but not to the extent to make me fat but I got fat.  I've struggled ever since I can remember.  I actually recall in first grade looking at myself in the mirror and wondering why I looked so big compared to my classmates.  Surely I ate as well as they did.  It's a good thing I've been athletic all my life so I never go really big but I was very overweight at one point.  

It's in my genetic code.  My mother is over 300lbs, my Grandmother is over 225, my Aunt is in the 200 range, I have a sister who is 4'11" and she is over 200lbs.  The only saving grace for my other 2 sisters and I is that we refuse to get like that.  Each of us have had our times where we did gain more than we should but it's been our lifestyle choices that have saved us.  

I have a slow metabolism, I have thyroid disease, diabetes runs in my family, heart disease runs in my family so yeah, many people think I'm strict on this board but what are my options?  That's why when I say something like "stay away from the carrots at night" that's because in cases like mine, macronutrient timing is one of the most important things we have to control this.

So I see people talking about how they have struggled with weight and then cry when I tell them they should stay away from carbs at night.  Sure, if I had a great metabolism you'd can betcha ass I wouldn't be as concerned with my macronutrient timing as I am now.

Then theres the cortisol and circadian rythms.............


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## Double D (Apr 6, 2007)

I am hurt. Whats wrong with being in the 200 range?


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## Jodi (Apr 6, 2007)

Nothing if you aren't female barely hitting 5'.


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## Double D (Apr 6, 2007)

Ya ya, you know I am only messin. 

But a sexy female only hitting 5'?


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## Jodi (Apr 6, 2007)

I wouldn't say a female at 5' @ 200+lbs is sexy   Trust me, they don't look good. lol.


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## danzik17 (Apr 6, 2007)

I'm in the same damn boat - one side of my family has great genetics and can eat whatever and not gain weight.  The other side gains weight easily.  Guess which fucking side I got stuck on  

Especially sucks when both my brother and sister have the better side of the genetics, so it's just like WTF.  I do think that I probably put on muscle a little easier than either of them though.


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## Double D (Apr 6, 2007)

Jodi said:


> I wouldn't say a female at 5' @ 200+lbs is sexy   Trust me, they don't look good. lol.



Ya I know this for a fact! I have plenty of short fat aunts.


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## Phred (Apr 6, 2007)

danzik17 said:


> I'm in the same damn boat - one side of my family has great genetics and can eat whatever and not gain weight.  The other side gains weight easily.  Guess which fucking side I got stuck on
> 
> Especially sucks when both my brother and sister have the better side of the genetics, so it's just like WTF.  I do think that I probably put on muscle a little easier than either of them though.


At least you had a chance with one side of the family.  Both sides of mine are obese.  I had no chance.  Not complaining, just stating the facts.  It is a struggle.


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## Witchblade (Apr 6, 2007)

Jodi said:


> Many of us have the genetic code for fatness.  Since I was a child I've struggled with my weight and it wasn't because I didn't exercise enough or ate like shit all the time.  Sure, when I was younger I ate a lot worse than I do now but not to the extent to make me fat but I got fat.  I've struggled ever since I can remember.  I actually recall in first grade looking at myself in the mirror and wondering why I looked so big compared to my classmates.  Surely I ate as well as they did.  It's a good thing I've been athletic all my life so I never go really big but I was very overweight at one point.
> 
> It's in my genetic code.  My mother is over 300lbs, my Grandmother is over 225, my Aunt is in the 200 range, I have a sister who is 4'11" and she is over 200lbs.  The only saving grace for my other 2 sisters and I is that we refuse to get like that.  Each of us have had our times where we did gain more than we should but it's been our lifestyle choices that have saved us.
> 
> ...


That certainly explains your strictness. I think everyone would understand if you noted it down like this. 

It may be a good idea to formulate your strict rules with this in mind. Keeping things a bit more relative can't hurt and people would be less inclined to think you're being rude.


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## P-funk (Apr 6, 2007)

gotta head to the gym.  Hope to get back to this later.

Read the first study Jodi posted.

The fact that the subjects did not do any training or exercise makes it tough to apply to a population that is going to be training and having higher amounts of caloric expenditure.

Also, did you see the meals they were eating?

High Carb group:
Vegetable Lasagna
skim milk ice cream 
orange juice

High fat group:
vegetable lasagna
full cream ice cream
orange juice

That is a little different than eggs and oats.  Or steak and sweet potato.  The meal in the group that ate high carbs isn't balanced at all.


I understand what you are saying Jodi about metabolic differences.....the thing is, I am talking about healthy populations.  I think this stuff gets blown out of proportion because people take information or research pertaining to populations that aren't as healthy and they try and apply it accross the board.  The answer lies somewhere in the middle more often than not.

Also, with regard to overweight people or people with slow metabolisms.......Hundreds of thousands of people lose weight each year using wight watchers.  they don't watch the types of foods that they eat, only the amount.  Most of them save up their points and drink alcohol at night or they eat those silly weight watchers ice cream treats.  they still lose weight though.

Not that I think weight watchers is great either.

Again, I think that the answer is somewhere in the middle.

Another question I have regarding GH release in men.  The largest surge happens in the 3rd and 4th stages of REM.  It takes several hours to get into those stages (some probably don't even get into them).  That said, I wonder if the meal (with carbs) has already been digested by the time you reach that point in your slumber (if you ever do).


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## Jodi (Apr 6, 2007)

Witchblade said:


> That certainly explains your strictness. I think everyone would understand if you noted it down like this.
> 
> It may be a good idea to formulate your strict rules with this in mind. Keeping things a bit more relative can't hurt and people would be less inclined to think you're being rude.



I don't think people think I'm being rude when they are the ones coming to me for advice.  You come to me for advice, you are going to get strict.  I hardly call that rude.  I don't fluff things.  I tell it like it is.  "You eat such and such and you will gain fat."  Please expalin how that is rude?


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## Jodi (Apr 6, 2007)

P-funk said:


> gotta head to the gym.  Hope to get back to this later.
> 
> Read the first study Jodi posted.
> 
> ...


However you guys want to think that's fine.  I practice what I preach and if something doesn't work for me I preach that too.  This being the carbs in the evening.  

Also remember most of the people coming here asking questions are not healthy individuals.  Most of them are newbies who are overweight, don't know how to exercise and don't know how to diet properly and are still learning.  IMO it's best to teach them the basics and then let them experiment once they know their bodies better.  If you don't know your body then how will you ever know if something is working for you or against you?

I should note however that I feel if someone works out in the evening then YES, you should have carbs for PWO regardless of the time of day.  Those will be digested fast.

Regardless, my original statements still stand 

Cortisol
Cicadian Rythms

ps. I just got back from my ND and asked her opinion on this matter.  She agreed with me on most of it.  Cortisol, ciradian rythms etc.....she also said those that have good metabolisms without any metabolic issues or for those that are not overweight do fine with carbs in the evening but in a case like myself and others like me (eg. fat gene, predisposed to diabetes, hearth disease etc...) then it's best to stay away from starchy carbs but occassionally a small piece of fruit in the evening is exceptable.


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## ABCs (Apr 6, 2007)

I believe that if you have a tank of a body like Funk, then carbs at night won't have any side effects. However, if your bodies internals aren't as efficient and trained as some of these peolpe on here, then carbs will do their worst on you. I believe this matter can be solved on a case to case basis rather than a "one rule fits all." Again, I don't know much about this topic, just what I've pieced together through personal experience and reading. 

Me personaly? I keep my meals as balanced as possible... to fit the time of day. I have the comfort of working out in the afternoon which enables me to taper my carb intake as the day goes on and still be able to get the proper nutrition I need for very solid workouts. As the day goes on, my carb intake deminishes and my last meal avoids carbs at all costs. Again, I believe this has more to do with my body type, my genetics, and how my body reacts to certain macros.


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## Tom_B (Apr 6, 2007)

Jodi I get where you're coming from. One side of my family is fat, the other side is really skinny fat. I wasn't blessed with some sort of magical metabolism or great genes, when I was a kid I had become so overweight and top heavy that my knees actually began to give out on me. My legs couldn't support the weight that my top was carrying and it was affecting my growth. So I began a childhood of unhealthy eating (or well lack there of), I managed to drop my weight but what was the result? 120lbs with 15-18% BF. It has taken me near 3 years now to get lean. Didn't matter how much bulking or cutting I did, no matter how strict and anal I got over my diet (and I mean strict) I just couldn't get lean. So you know what I did? I got fed up, I stopped worrying about "GI" or eating carbs before bed, or not eating carbs on this day, etc. I stopped being so up tight about my diet and started to focus on supplying my body with adequate nutrition, making sure I got a good dose Of vitamins/minerals, healthy fats, fiber, protein and I just let everything else fall into place. If I wanted a cookie, I ate it. If I wanted a protein bar I ate it. So long as it fitted into my overall daily calories/macros I ate it. This is when I started to notice a change in my physquie .. I just started to lean out. My body weight wasn't changing but I was getting leaner, and leaner .. I'm now at about 9% BF (if not lower, those pics in my gallery are outdated), and I haven't "dieted" in any sense to get this lean, if I was hungry I ate, and if I was starving and doubled up my last meal of the day (which would be about 70G worth of carbs) I ate it! 

Now I'm not saying that everyone is so lucky, and they can do what I did and see the same results .. I'm just trying to point out (like P-funk and Emma are saying) that alot of things in the Bodybuilding world are taken out of context, with GI being a prime example. It's flawed, it isn't a great measure for the amount of insulin that'll be going through you (you would want to look at GL for that), plus when you combine a Carbohydrate with EFA's and protein the GI is SIGNIFICANTLY lowered. Another example is everyone always being so worried about diary and fruit when cutting because of the "sugar". Forget the fact that they're LOADED with vitamins/minerals, phytochemicals and fiber. People get so worked up over the 'little' things and forget really the main reason for changing their lifestyles .. to live healthier! 

But yes while eating carbs late at night might hindering or slow peoples results what were trying to get across here is too say "If you eat carbs in your last meal of the day you'll get fat" is ridiculous. Like Emma pointed out .. if you take someone (and this being especially true if said person is in a Hypocaloric state) and they eat say .. 200 calories worth of carbs in their last meal, now hypothetically lets say ALL of those 200 calories are stored as fat .. it's insignificant. It's a dot!
Like you said, people need to start experimenting for themselves and figuring out what works for them and not someone else. For me personally, I love carbs in my last meal. I've continued to get lean while doing so, plus I find it really helps my workouts, since I workout first thing in the AM. There are going to be studies that encourage carbs in the evening, and then alternatively there will be studies that discourage carbs in the evening .. that's just how it's always going to be, becuase everyone is different.

PS Jodi do you have any more studies about the cortisol and Circadian Rhythms? I'm not subscribed to the journal you posted and can't view the full study ..


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## Jodi (Apr 6, 2007)

I agree that the GI is very flawed.  Completely agree on that and I barely ever advise someone to follow it.  Sometimes I direct them the GI because it gives them a point of reference and a better idea of healthier food choices but to follow it exactly is ludicrous.

As far as the studies, no, I don't have any subscriptions either.  That was one I found through a simple search.  Most of my info on circadian rhythms and cortisol has come from medical books that my doctor loaned to me to read.  I see her in a week.  I will get the names of the books.  I asked to read them because I have adrenal issues as well.


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## Tom_B (Apr 6, 2007)

Ya when giving people diet advice I generally tell them to stick to low GI foods as well, just for the fact that generally lower GI foods are healthier ..
I hear ya on the health problems .. I'm currently going through some stomach/bowel issues right now... between the very taxing workout routine I've been following, + the daily SF energy drinks + the 5-6 hours of sleep a night has finally caught up with me. I've screwed something up in my body .. and I'm constantly falling asleep randomly, I can barley sit down in a class or read a book without passing out.

PS if you could get the names of those books I would really appreciate it! I'm going to be in Uni in a few months and any reading material like that would be great!


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## Witchblade (Apr 7, 2007)

Jodi said:


> I don't think people think I'm being rude when they are the ones coming to me for advice.  You come to me for advice, you are going to get strict.  I hardly call that rude.  I don't fluff things.  I tell it like it is.  "You eat such and such and you will gain fat."  Please expalin how that is rude?


I'm saying some people are inclined to think you're being rude when you give very strict and absolute advice, regardless of what I think or your intentions. 
I'm not talking about the people that come to you either, I'm talking about some random people in random threads that probably don't know you.

Anyway, this is getting off-topic. 


I think we can safely conclude that there is no definitive answer to the question in this thread yet and that everyone should experiment for himself?


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## ABCs (Apr 7, 2007)

Witchblade said:


> I think we can safely conclude that there is no definitive answer to the question in this thread yet and that everyone should experiment for himself?



I would say so.


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## Jodi (Apr 7, 2007)

Witchblade said:


> I'm saying some people are inclined to think you're being rude when you give very strict and absolute advice, regardless of what I think or your intentions.
> I'm not talking about the people that come to you either, I'm talking about some random people in random threads that probably don't know you.
> 
> Anyway, this is getting off-topic.
> ...


I don't care about random people that don't know me......you either love me or you hate me.............


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## Jodi (Apr 7, 2007)

Anyway, I think a good conclusion to this subject would be this:

Emma, PFunk and I have all tried many things with our diets.  We know our bodies and we know what works and what doesn't work.  Sort of like the PWO debate.  None of our opinions are wrong, it just comes down to the individual.  When you know your body well enough experimenting is the way to go.  If something you tried doesn't seem to work, then go back to what you were doing.

If you have a good metabolism and you don't have trouble sleeping at night and you want carbs at night, try it......if it affects your sleep, or wake up in the middle of the night hungry or you notice weight gain then stop the carbs at night.

There is no one answer for everyone.  I can't eat carbs at night because it will affect my sleep and with my slower metabolism, I can't digest them that quickly and it does affect my weight.  Emma and P like carbs at night and they feel it doesn't affect their weight or sleep.  The key thing is that we all know our bodies pretty damn well.

It's good that we all have different points of views because it give all the members options.


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## ABCs (Apr 7, 2007)

^Werd up to that. Learning your body is probably the best thing a healthy person can do. You'll start to learn what works and doesn't wor kfor your own body which may or may not apply to others. Pretty much jsut use what you learn on these boards as a guide line to developing your own system. Tweak here, tweak there and boom, you'll have a solid schedule and diet in no time.


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## bigsahm21 (Apr 7, 2007)

Jodi I will say you're advice about stopping carbs to help with sleep patterns is absolutely spot on.  My metabolism is pretty fast so I ate them previously, as I found it helped with recovery...but I wasn't sleeping well.  Stopped the oats in my last meal and book, slept like a baby the very first night.

To each his own


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## robousy (Apr 12, 2007)

Eat cheese and drink some green tea before bed if you want some wacky dreams.


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## Uthinkso (Apr 12, 2007)

robousy said:


> Eat cheese and drink some green tea before bed if you want some wacky dreams.




Ya know now that you mention it I've been eating cottage cheese every night for the past month or so. I have been dreaming of lots os strange shit. The other night I was married to my wife and her maid of honor, some sort of polyamorous deal.


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## robousy (Apr 12, 2007)

now mix the green tea and you'll be married to her mom too!


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## danny81 (Apr 12, 2007)

anything else good to eat besides cottage cheese.


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## robousy (Apr 12, 2007)

steak.


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## leg_press (Apr 16, 2007)

danny81 said:


> anything else good to eat besides cottage cheese.



Most of the time I have a casein shake before bed just something quick and easy to pound down, but if what PFunk and Emma are saying is true then I may have you start including some oats with that.


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## P-funk (Apr 16, 2007)

leg_press said:


> Most of the time I have a casein shake before bed just something quick and easy to pound down, but if what PFunk and Emma are saying is true then I may have you start including some oats with that.



i am not saying it is 'true'.  I am just throwing it out there.  I try as hard as I can to never speak in definites....things are always changing.  Science always changes.  I try and read as much as possible, think, re-think and add to things that I have learned in the past.  What I thought last year may not be exactly what I think today and it wont be exactly what I think next year.

Two things that we can be certain about:

1) Research proves NOTHING.  I only suggest statistical evidence.  Depending on how the researchers design the study, and set up the statistical analysis, they can prove whatever the hell they want.  That is why it is important to go back to the entire study and see for yourself.  See if you it can be related to the real world.  See what it is suggesting.  But realize that it is not proving.  It is just saying that...in this situation, under these circumstances, with these variables, we found this to be true and it is possible that this can be generalized to the public.

and

2) Science is always changing.  You can show me 5 studies that say one thing and I can show you 5 more that say the exact opposite.  You need to stay on top of the stuff because it is always changing.



A lot of people tend to swing to one extreme or the other when it comes to diet.  I try and stay in the middle because often times, that is where the real story lies and that is what can work for most of the normal healthy people, most of the time.  But not always.


There is a lot of individualization in this stuff, but for the most part, the basics work...ie, take in less calories to lose weight.  How you break up those calories will probably have a significant effect on the "type" of weight that you lose (muscle or fat) and the efficiency of your diet.


I have read some many damn books (from NHE, to Berardi's Precision Nutrition and Metabolic Advantage, to Lyles stuff, to text books, to articles, studies, atkins, zone, etc....).  I should really try and compile everything into one long ass article on dieting and see if it can help people make sense of this stuff.


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## Plateau_Max (Apr 16, 2007)

There's a few things I'd like to toss into this boiling caldron of Dietary knowledge.

Some things that bothered me about the study provided (in supplement to the already discussed flaws) mostly was the vaguity of it to begin with.  Also I never trust a study that involves so few people... I lost my faith in what I was reading the moment my eyes scanned across "took 10 women" Most of the books that I read that I actually apply and pass on knowledge from have study after study that include several hundred or more people, and always a control group or a placebo.  There needs to be a base group for all comparison, not just black and white, yes and no, this or that.

My personal take on carbs as far as eating them before bed-

If you're bulking I would think of a conservative well planned carb intake before bed is good simply to keep glycogen stores in tact and prevent the body from breaking down skeletal muscle (which it loves to do during sleep).  By well planned I mean you really need to take Circadian rhythm, and cortisol levels into account.  The big way I see carbs disruption circadian rhythm is the insulin spike.  This can be dulled by consuming very low GI carbs that process energy at a steady rate, as well as also consuming added Fiber and Casein both of which cause the digestion process to be slower and steadier.  Really you're trying to battle the surge and crash effect of carbs.

During a cut... I can see a slight need for carb consumption, following the same rules of course. This is mostly to preserve the breakdown of lean mass which is of course a 24/7 struggle when you're on a cut, but would obviously be much less of a degree and much less of a necessity than it would be when you're on a bulk and you're going for the "as much gain as possible, as little loss as possible" approach.

In the end of course and Pfunk and Jodi have so ellequently added - Your body is your own, you can never set exact standards that can be applied across the board.  There are far too many variables in the equation, the equation that results in YOUR perfect outcome.  Your age, your genetics, your day to day lifestyle, the climate where you live, allergies to foods you may have, conditions, diseases, THE LIST GOES ON.  Read, study, apply, and see if it works.  Whether something works or not, that's one more thing you know about how your body works with food.


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## Ronald (Apr 18, 2007)

I used to have a peanut butter and whole wheat sandwhich with a protein shake before i went to bed, now im actually trying just protein before bed, (cottage cheese) it makes me fart all night long and on then on the way to work.  and it smells terrible.  luckily im single again haha


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## Ronald (Apr 18, 2007)

oh and Ill be the guinea pig for this experiment which was my point in saying that.  but then again i was actually gaining before and now am cutting....will let you know how it works out in a few weeks


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