# My 1-test/4ad/cycle results



## ZECH (Sep 11, 2002)

Just finished my cycle of 1-test/4ad from Avant labs. It was 4 weeks on each. I gained 8 lbs lbm. I gained 30 lbs strength on my bench(265 to 295)! I also gained 1/2" size on my arms and legs! I still have a couple days left of Molecular Nutrition's 1-t, I was stacking with the 4-ad. I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of the new 6-oxo for use after the cycle. It is suppose to far outperform any other trib product to date! This stuff worked wonders for me and I hate like hell to go off, but need to give the ol bod a break. But I will definitely be doing some more. Been doing some research on home brews I may give a shot! The addition of DMSO to this gel has great promise. It is suppose to be the best for getting PH's into the bloodstream. I will get the ingredients and mix the PH's myself and see how that compares to Avant's. More later.................


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## Triple Threat (Sep 12, 2002)

8 lb lbm in 8 weeks is good. Now it will be interesting to see how much of your gains you keep once you go off the stuff. Keep us posted.


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## gopro (Sep 13, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Just finished my cycle of 1-test/4ad from Avant labs. It was 4 weeks on each. I gained 8 lbs lbm. I gained 30 lbs strength on my bench(265 to 295)! I also gained 1/2" size on my arms and legs! I still have a couple days left of Molecular Nutrition's 1-t, I was stacking with the 4-ad. I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of the new 6-oxo for use after the cycle. It is suppose to far outperform any other trib product to date! This stuff worked wonders for me and I hate like hell to go off, but need to give the ol bod a break. But I will definitely be doing some more. Been doing some research on home brews I may give a shot! The addition of DMSO to this gel has great promise. It is suppose to be the best for getting PH's into the bloodstream. I will get the ingredients and mix the PH's myself and see how that compares to Avant's. More later.................



Excellent my friend. Good choice to use the 6-oxo...great product! As for the DMSO...just be prepared to smell like garlic!


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## ZECH (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: Re: My 1-test/4ad/cycle results*



> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> 
> 
> As for the DMSO...just be prepared to smell like garlic!



 That's not good! Even at about a 10% of total mixture?


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## gopro (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: My 1-test/4ad/cycle results*



> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> 
> 
> That's not good! Even at about a 10% of total mixture?



Hmmm...maybe not, but you'd have to try it and see. I have used DMSO to pass certain fat burners topically through my system and my sweat and breath got very garlicy.


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## ZECH (Sep 13, 2002)

We'll see later! Very interesting about fat burners in a topical! How did you or whoever get the fat burners in solution? WOuld like to look into that!


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## gopro (Sep 15, 2002)

I used to make a triax/yohimbe topical, but triax is no longer legal and one company...SAN...makes a great topical called LIPOBURN. I have used it with DMSO with nice results. I will also use the temporary "skin thinning" agent, THIOMUCASE, with DMSO as well.


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## ZECH (Sep 16, 2002)

Thanks for the info GP!!

Just to let you know, it has been a week now since I have  finished my cycle and today I benched 300 for the first time!!
The strength has maintained or slightly increased. GP, is there any residual effect with 1-test/4ad? There was a slight delay in the shipment of 6-oxo. It is suppose to be here today. I have been taking 9 Fuzu's a day instead of 6 till it gets here. So far so good!


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## Mudge (Sep 16, 2002)

Damn DG, your catching up  I'm pretty sure I'm stuck at 320 for now.


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## ZECH (Sep 16, 2002)

That may be all the gains until next cycle!


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## Mikes1 (Sep 16, 2002)

Did you take the recommended sosage or more?
I'm starting a cycle of mag 10 in a week or so, and i'll be taking 2 servings a day. The bad thing is that i only have enough for a 2 week cycle. I hopr it does something.

Mike


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## gopro (Sep 17, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Thanks for the info GP!!
> 
> Just to let you know, it has been a week now since I have  finished my cycle and today I benched 300 for the first time!!
> The strength has maintained or slightly increased. GP, is there any residual effect with 1-test/4ad? There was a slight delay in the shipment of 6-oxo. It is suppose to be here today. I have been taking 9 Fuzu's a day instead of 6 till it gets here. So far so good!



Usually the "drop off" occurs in the second or third week after coming off. Very often gains will continue INTO the week AFTER stopping. The Fuzu should help till the 6 oxo arrives. Keep us all posted!


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## Mudge (Sep 17, 2002)

Yep, if the product WORKS and test levels are up, it takes them time for the 1/2 life of the product to die in the system down to normal levels again.

Here is a non-legal example:


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## ZECH (Sep 20, 2002)

Just received my 6-oxo yesterday and started taking it! Maybe in a week or so I can tell how it's working. Since it just started shipping this week, I have yet to read any feedback...too early I guess. It's going to hard to wait long enough to start a new cycle of super one+! I can't wait!!


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## ZECH (Sep 27, 2002)

Three week update..................It will be Sunday. I am down about a 1 1/2 maybe 2 lbs in body weight. I hope it was just a little water I was retaining. My strength is still close. I'm down about 5-10 lbs in bench. I'm still at 290 up from 265. So I'm still happy with that! I don't feel as hard as I did but I expected that. If I can maintain this for another week or two I think I can maintain it! My reps on bench are still there. I'm still doing 225 for 10 as before I was doing 2-3. I am taking 6-oxo twice a day(three in the morning and three late evening). More later........


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## Robboe (Sep 27, 2002)

What did you set your calories at during the cycle?


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## ZECH (Sep 27, 2002)

TCD I couldn't tell ya! I'm not one to count calories. I just eat whenever I get hungry and as much as I can. I do try to eat 6 small meals a day though. I am sure it varied from day to day! And counting is probably a good idea. I'm just too lazy!


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## hardHITer001 (Sep 27, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> I used to make a triax/yohimbe topical, but triax is no longer legal and one company...SAN...makes a great topical called LIPOBURN. I have used it with DMSO with nice results. I will also use the temporary "skin thinning" agent, THIOMUCASE, with DMSO as well.



Sorry to butt in but what is DMSO and THIOMUCASE? 

Something made by one of the pro-hormone manufactures?


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## ZECH (Sep 28, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by hardHITer001 *_
> 
> 
> Sorry to butt in but what is DMSO and THIOMUCASE?
> ...



DMSO=Dimethyl Sulfoxide
A by product of wood and it is an absorpption enhancer. Probably the best way to get PH's absorbed through the skin, but at high percentages of solution it is very irritating to the skin and smells like garlic. Most people use it at no more than 20-30% in solution mixed with other agents.


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## gopro (Sep 29, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by hardHITer001 *_
> 
> 
> Sorry to butt in but what is DMSO and THIOMUCASE?
> ...



DMSO...explained above very well. No prohormone product has been ready made with this delivery system. It is usually part of a "home brew."

Thiomucase is a european topical product (also available in injectable and suppositiories) that seeps into skin and releases small amounts of water from subcutaneous fat cells. Works reasonably well for some...not at all for others.


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## hardHITer001 (Sep 29, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> 
> 
> DMSO=Dimethyl Sulfoxide
> A by product of wood and it is an absorpption enhancer. Probably the best way to get PH's absorbed through the skin, but at high percentages of solution it is very irritating to the skin and smells like garlic. Most people use it at no more than 20-30% in solution mixed with other agents.




 What are the potential side effects, if any? (Other than listed above)

Where would one acquire it? 

Mix as a 20-30% solution with what?

Thanks again.................


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## ZECH (Sep 30, 2002)

This is one I may try later on as a homebrew with 1-test and 4-ad.

40% ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL (99%) OR EHTANOL(C1-C4 ALCOHOL) 
15% ISOPROPYL MIRISTRATE 
15% ISOPROPYL PALMITATE 
10% OLEIC ACID 
10% PROPYLENE GLYCOL 
10% DMSO (99%) 

Here is one place you can get ingrediants online. There are several more also. http://www.lemelange.com/

And Gp I think a product mixed with DMSO for sale is illegal. That is why they are adding it in homebrew. Why I'm not sure. Maybe because it is so potent?


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## gopro (Sep 30, 2002)

I am pretty sure it is illegal, yes. It may be considered a "pharmaceutical" delivery system if DMSO is used. Strange though, because you can buy DMSO at some supplement stores.


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## ZECH (Sep 30, 2002)

I guess so! And yes I have seen it also! Not Illegal to buy..........


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## ZECH (Oct 6, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Here is one place you can get ingrediants online. There are several more also. http://www.lemelange.com/


I have heard some bad things about Lemelange. The girl there is Melissa, and I hear people are having trouble getting their orders. They call her and she promises to ship the next day and still nothing. So buyer beware!

I would try www.bdcnutrition.com


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## ZECH (Oct 7, 2002)

Four Week update.......Still good so far. My bench is still at 290 as of today. Reps are still there.....Weight is at 183, down from 186. I feel like the 6-oxo has gradually helped. I really feel my weight will be maintained now along with my strength. Overall I feel this last cycle was a good one even though I think 8 weeks looking back was a little long. I think it is a big shock on your body. I think from now on I will keep them at four weeks as it will be easier to recover and easier to keep the smaller gains. I have my next cycle supplies on the way even though it will be at least several more weeks until I start. I am going for Super one+(10g 1-test & 9.375g 4-ad stacked with probably 600g/day Boldione1,4 andro) for 4 weeks. I think this sounds promising!


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## gopro (Oct 7, 2002)

Thanks for the update!


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## Vale Tudo (Oct 14, 2002)

Man DG, it seems like you are on PH like all of the time!  is there anything that you guys would recomend to stack with Ergopharms 1-AD that would help out with the gains?  Thnaks for the help guys.  I did my last cycle and had gains very similar to yours , and now I have been off the 1-AD for about 9 weeks.  But I have just started my next cycle.  Same product same Cycle.  Do yuo think i will see similar gains as I did last time?  Thanks again


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## ZECH (Oct 14, 2002)

VT..........depends on weather or not you want to stay the oral route or try transdermal? If you want to stay oral, I think Boldione would be a good stack with 1-ad. It will help harden you up and make you more vascular. I doubt you will see as good results on your second cycle if you stay with just 1-ad. If you throw in some Boldione, you might see better results. That will help target different receptors in your body! Good luck.....


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## Vale Tudo (Oct 14, 2002)

hey DG where can I get Boldione?


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## ZECH (Oct 14, 2002)

5 week update........
Well everything is the same! My weight is still at 183(just weighed). I only attempted 285 on bench today and it went up fairly well. Pretty sure i could have squeezed out 290. Still did 225 for 10 reps. I feel like I have fully recovered. Though no way to tell for sure? I have one more day of 6-oxo. But I'm feeling great. My superone+ and Boldione came in last Thursday and it is burning a hole in my gym bag! Man I want to try some bad! I have a doctors appt. next Wednesday just to check my blood pressure(regular appt), so I will wait until the 28th to start my next cycle(that will be 7 weeks off), Probably a little short, but I think I will try it, depending on how I feel!! I'm thinking of adding a little Dmso to my superone...haven't decided yet.


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## gopro (Oct 15, 2002)

You're like a kid with a new toy...can't wait to start playing with it, LOL! Glad you are doing well!


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## ZECH (Oct 15, 2002)

Yep! What can I say? I like the results! It is fun..........
Vt.....you can get Boldione at most online supp sites
1fast400.com is who I reccomend.


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## Twin Peak (Oct 15, 2002)

Why would you use Bold if 1-test has been working so well.  Now that I have SOME knowledge on this stuff I find I am even more confused.

Every product seems to be "the best".


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## ZECH (Oct 15, 2002)

It is common to stack different substances. Since I already did one cycle of 1-test & 4ad, your receptors might not be affected as much thus not as much gains. (if that makes since). Boldione is 1,4 andro which is totally different. Hopefully that will target different receptors and hopefully get gains as good as I did first cycle. The science on this stuff is coming out quickly and is very exciting! There are several companies working on a super nandroline product. But I'm afraid if this PH bill is passed it may not get a chance to get out!


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## hardHITer001 (Oct 17, 2002)

Glad to hear its working for you! 

It kind of makes me excited to place an order. I???m Going to order next week. The One+.

So have you noticed any drop in body fat levels why using the PHs? 

Also what about using them in conjunction with a pre-contest diet? Do you think it would be a waste of time with such little calories? 

Or could you recommend a different product or products for pre-contest?


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## Robboe (Oct 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by hardHITer001 *_
> Glad to hear its working for you!
> 
> It kind of makes me excited to place an order. I???m Going to order next week. The One+.
> ...




If you're using ONE+, you may not notice a drop in bodyfat because of the oestrogen issues from the 4-AD.

(Oestrogen is not necessarily a bad thing, remember).


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## ZECH (Oct 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by hardHITer001 *_
> 
> 
> Also what about using them in conjunction with a pre-contest diet? Do you think it would be a waste of time with such little calories?
> ...



Avant recommends upping calories to get the most out of the product. I hear 21-25 calories per lb of bodyweight.(so 200x25=5,000). As expensive as it is, if I was precontest, I would hold off and try on a bulking cycle. Boldione is a good choice for harding and vascularity. But it does stimulate appetite!


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## hardHITer001 (Oct 18, 2002)

I wont start my diet until December.  So I could do a 4-week cycle during November. Can you make some decent gains such a short period? 

As far as the calories go, there is no way I can eat like that! I use low volume training. Im 215-218 and only eat about 2800-3000 a day. If I went by that standard I would almost double my intake. I have been considering raising my volume if I used the One+. I may up my cals some but I'd be skeptical at doubling them when I???m only 5 weeks away from my diet. (Its kind of like a pre-diet, diet )

Boldione: So you think I might be able to use it pre-contest? Should I stack it with anything?

Thanks again......


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## ZECH (Oct 18, 2002)

If you want to do a four week cycle, one plus is a great choice to stack with boldione. Yes you can get good gains in four weeks. And actually most guys are going toward four week cycles instead of 8. It is easier to recover from, and not such a big shock on your body! And I think at 215 you should be eating way more than that. I bet we have some women on here at 120 eat more than that!


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## gopro (Oct 18, 2002)

A few quick comments...

1) The difference between 1-test and 4-AD and some of the other prohormones is that these two do not need to be enzymatically converted to be effective. This is a big advantage.

2) Although gains will be increased if you up your cals while on prohormones (similar to real steroids), you can still eat maintenance cals and add lean mass. 

3) 1-Test and 4-AD work wonderfully on a pre-contest diet. They truly help to maintain lean mass when cals are low. 1-Test in particular can also add hardness to the physique.


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## hardHITer001 (Oct 18, 2002)

Well, the amount of cals is a different thread. It keeps me lean without doing cardio.

So I'll stack the One+ (12 squirts 2x a day) with the Boldione (recommend dosage?) and follow up with a single bottle of oxo-6. 

Or is that too strong?


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## gopro (Oct 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by hardHITer001 *_
> Well, the amount of cals is a different thread. It keeps me lean without doing cardio.
> 
> So I'll stack the One+ (12 squirts 2x a day) with the Boldione (recommend dosage?) and follow up with a single bottle of oxo-6.
> ...



How many mg per day of 1-test does that equal?


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## hardHITer001 (Oct 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> 
> 
> How many mg per day of 1-test does that equal?



well,,,,,,,I dont know......... ,,,,,embarrassing

I was just going by what I had read as a "hard core dose"

dj, 

can you answer that?


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## Robboe (Oct 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> 
> 
> How many mg per day of 1-test does that equal?




I just PMed par deus earlier about the 1-test content for ONE earlier, for each dosing range (i.e. 3-4 squirts and 6 squirts).

There's 6g of 1-test in every 8oz bottle of ONE.

Each 8oz bottle of ONE+ contains 2.625 grams of 1-Testosterone and 9.375 grams of 4-androstenediol.

12 squirts a day of ONE+ lasts 15 days, so that's 180 squirts per bottle.

So maybe we can work it out from that.


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## ZECH (Oct 18, 2002)

If you have the old beta 1-test you have 8oz. with 6g of 1-test. At 12 squirts a day you would get 250mg of 1-test which is A LOT!
I would definitely start out with 6 squirts a day(especially if this is your first cycle) to assess your adaptability to it. At 12 squirts a day you will notice quite a bit of larthargy unless you are taking 4-ad with it which conteracts it. 4-ad also helps keep your libido up while on 1-test. If you get one+(which I recommend) I would go with super one plus from 1fast400. He is authorized by Avant to do custom formulations. It has 6g 1-test and 9.375g of 4-ad. It is $76.......Hope that helps.


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## Robboe (Oct 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> If you have the old beta 1-test you have 8oz. with 6g of 1-test. At 12 squirts a day you would get 250mg of 1-test which is A LOT!



12 squirts is the hardcore dosing for ONE+. 6 is the hardcore dosing for ONE.

6g 1-test in ONE, 2.625g 1-test in ONE+.


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## ZECH (Oct 18, 2002)

Yep your right, my bad! So hard core dosage for 1-test would be 125mg/day. So for super one+ you get 125mg 1-test and 390.625mg 4/ad a day!


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## Robboe (Oct 18, 2002)

Actually, that may have been my mistake. Were you refering to 12 squirts in total per day? (since you dose twice daily).

even so, it's still 250mg over the day, and not per dose, so we're talking the same green.

Either way, avantlabs seems to be the daddy as far as 1-test products go, not just for amount per dose, but also for best transport.

IMO at least. From what i've read and heard of people's accounts.


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## ponyboy (Oct 18, 2002)

Hey guys,

Looking for a place to post my results thus far with 1-AD, I'm almost at the end of 3 weeks and the results thus far.  I'm also doing that strange 5 days on 2 days off cycle, but it still seems to be working.  

Weight at start: 173.5 lbs. (naked)  

Current weight: 181 lbs.  (naked)

Major lifts:  

Bench at start 145x5-6
Now: 155x6

Skullcrushers:  at start 70x6
Now 80x6

Squats: at start 205x6-8
Now 225x8

Shoulder Press (Dumbbell): at start 35x8
Now 45x6

Plus my measurements have increased by 1 inch on legs, chest and shoulders, and 1/2 an inch on arms.  

We'll see if these gains continue or if they stall after this.  I'm planning on taking Tribestan after this for six weeks to get levels back to norm although my test levels are still pretty good judging from my libido...any other suggestions so that the gains don't vanish?


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## Robboe (Oct 18, 2002)

Excellent progress, man.

Post cyle therapy ideas:

1. keep carbs up (for the anti-catabolic properties of insulin).
2. Keep training sessions short (under 40 minutes).
3. Train shy of failure.
4. Keep calories up (i.e. don't start dieting straight away).
5. Possibly split smaller doses of EC (12.5mg E, 100mg C) 4-6 times throughout the day.
6. May be a bit extreme for you, but nicotine can be extremely useful.


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## ZECH (Oct 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Actually, that may have been my mistake. Were you refering to 12 squirts in total per day? (since you dose twice daily).
> 
> even so, it's still 250mg over the day, and not per dose, so we're talking the same green.
> ...




LOL! Yep 250/day for 12 squirts total! Also agree about Avant being King daddy! Onlt other way to beat it is maybe add a little DMSO to it!! (about 10% of mix).


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## Robboe (Oct 18, 2002)

I dunno what DMSO is, so i wouldn't know, sorry.


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## Robboe (Oct 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by ponyboy *_
> 
> Weight at start: 173.5 lbs. (naked)
> 
> Current weight: 181 lbs.  (naked)



PB, are these 8 very visibly added lbs?

That is, can you tell you've added 8lbs muscle in 3 weeks?


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## ponyboy (Oct 18, 2002)

I'm not naive enough to think that I've added 8 lbs. of muscle in three weeks.  However, judging from the measurements it is mass, but I'm assuming that it's at least 50% fat mass and/or water retention.  Measurements were also taken in the morning before drinking any water, so slightly dehydrated, which means something as well.  

When I look at myself in the mirror I am visibly larger in all areas, especially upper body.  There are also striations I didn't see before in my shoulders.  I can still see my abs, but I'm sure there is some weight going on my midsection as well (I put at least 1/2 an inch on my waist).  I'm not concerned with the bodyfat level because I'm simply trying to push past that plateau I've been at for months.  When I start cutting down in February 2003 I'll start worrying about that.  Right now my main goal is to get up to 190-195 and then cut down from there.  The simple fact i'm past 180 is a major accomplishment for me.


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## ZECH (Oct 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> I dunno what DMSO is, so i wouldn't know, sorry.


Go back to the first page of this thread and read  DMSO explanation!


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## hardHITer001 (Oct 19, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> If you have the old beta 1-test you have 8oz. with 6g of 1-test. At 12 squirts a day you would get 250mg of 1-test which is A LOT!
> I would definitely start out with 6 squirts a day(especially if this is your first cycle) to assess your adaptability to it. At 12 squirts a day you will notice quite a bit of larthargy unless you are taking 4-ad with it which conteracts it. 4-ad also helps keep your libido up while on 1-test. If you get one+(which I recommend) I would go with super one plus from 1fast400. He is authorized by Avant to do custom formulations. It has 6g 1-test and 9.375g of 4-ad. It is $76.......Hope that helps.



Will the 4-ad cause any water retention? Would this go well with the Boldione? Or is "regular" One+ the best option with Boldione?

What is a safe level of 1-test?

DMSO only helps with absorption. Right?

It seems the more I try and figure out whats going on the more confused I get>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


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## ZECH (Oct 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by hardHITer001 *_
> 
> 
> Will the 4-ad cause any water retention? Would this go well with the Boldione? Or is "regular" One+ the best option with Boldione?
> ...


4-ad does cause water retention, but you want that, it will help strength! One+ has both 4-ad and 1-test. It would go good with Boldione if you wanted to do all those. And DMSO helps with absorption. 1-test dosage should range from 125-250mg/day!There is lots to learn about this stuff!


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## hardHITer001 (Oct 20, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> 
> There is lots to learn about this stuff!




Understatement of the year!

Where can I go to gain some knowledge? 

Maybe I could stop annoying you with stupid questions.


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## ZECH (Oct 21, 2002)

LOL! I'm still learning too, but I'll gladly share what I know and learn.


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## Twin Peak (Oct 21, 2002)

very confusing.

I am starting simple.  Started 1-Test today.


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## ZECH (Oct 21, 2002)

What kind and how much are you doing??


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## Twin Peak (Oct 21, 2002)

VPX, 8 cc's  a day.


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## gopro (Oct 23, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> VPX, 8 cc's  a day.



Keep us posted. I'm very interested to see how you do with it!


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## Twin Peak (Oct 23, 2002)

Will do GP.  Actually I am posting regularly in my journal.  I have upped my cals to about 4000 per day, but I think its just making me fat.  Might cut it back to 3500.


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## Robboe (Oct 23, 2002)

Don't look at water retention as getting fat.

Not to mention that your stomach will be more stretched and slightly distended now due to the higher food intake.

All giving the appearance of you getting fatter.


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## Twin Peak (Oct 23, 2002)

Its not just appearance.  I am up to 210 (3 pounds in 2 days).  Also, I know too well what my body does.  If was water it would stop, I know that it will just get worse.  Besides 3500 cals is still a lot for me.


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## ZECH (Oct 23, 2002)

Alot of people gain around 10 lbs on a cycle.....


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## Robboe (Oct 23, 2002)

2 days man. Just give it time to make a proper assessment.

3500 @ 210 is only ~16kcals per lb.


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## Robboe (Oct 23, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 2 days man. Just give it time to make a proper assessment.
> 
> 3500 @ 210 is only ~16kcals per lb.



Not to mention the amount of calories you'll expend doing the weights six days a week, especially with the volume you do.


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## gopro (Oct 23, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Its not just appearance.  I am up to 210 (3 pounds in 2 days).  Also, I know too well what my body does.  If was water it would stop, I know that it will just get worse.  Besides 3500 cals is still a lot for me.



I totally understand this. For a guy at my size I do not eat very many cals per day...I just feel bloated and uncomfortable.


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## Twin Peak (Oct 23, 2002)

Rob, I'll give it a week.  I took measurements and pics on Sunday night, so 1 week.  If I am fatter, I'm gonna be pissed though.


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## ZECH (Nov 15, 2002)

I'm gonna use this old thread to update a current cycle. I have been on super one+ now for 3 weeks. I am up one lb from my previous high. 187lbs. My strength is back at the all time high as my bench Thursday was 300. And I felt like it was stronger. I did 275 twice and I have never did it more than once. I am stacking the superone+ with boldione @ 900mg a day. I really haven't noticed much with this except for increase in appetite. I may have another good day left of superone+. This was suppose to be a four week cycle. My strength is just now beginning to kick in! Weird! I really hate to stop now.....I debated this all day yesterday. Last cycle my strength really shot up when I started 4/ad and 1-ad. So yesterday I got some 1-ad and 4aderm. I will continue to stack it with boldione @900mg/day for at least 2 weeks and see how that goes. I was going to hold my cycle at 4 weeks to prevent bad natural t suppresion. But I really haven't noticed much yet. I get the feeling Avant's gel is not as bad as the 1-ad or Molecular ethergels. Not sure if this is me or if the breakdown by the liver of the orals plays part in this??


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## Twin Peak (Nov 15, 2002)

Thats a lot of 1, 4 no?


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## ZECH (Nov 15, 2002)

Not really.................I hear people taking 600-900mg or more, up to 1200 or so. Most say it takes a lot and a long time(6-8weeks) to get in your system good. But at that dosage it gets very expensive! For the price versus effect, I probably won't do it again on a bulk cycle. Might try it or 3aa on a cut cycle or pre contest(if ever?)


----------



## Twin Peak (Nov 15, 2002)

3aa?  You mean 5aa?  If not whats 3aa?

Thinking if competing huh?

Where those high does when stacked?  I would think not.


----------



## ZECH (Nov 15, 2002)

Close....an isomer of 5aa, supposedly better.
http://www.1fast400.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=72&products_id=30
Maybe in a couple years.
And yes I think so when stacking.


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## gopro (Nov 15, 2002)

dg806=prohormone freak


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## ZECH (Nov 15, 2002)

Hey GP...kiss my ASS!!!:


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## 1Fast400 (Nov 16, 2002)

Is your prostate hanging out of your ass yet?


----------



## gopro (Nov 16, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Hey GP...kiss my ASS!!!:



dg806=prohromonekissmyassfreak


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## ZECH (Nov 16, 2002)

Hmm??new sig! 1fast....not yet.


----------



## kuso (Nov 16, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by 1Fast400 *_
> Is your prostate hanging out of your ass yet?


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## ZECH (Nov 18, 2002)

I started taking 1-ad last friday(200mg 4 times/day) with the 4/ad. Today on bench I got 305 which is a PR. See how close to 315 I'll get?


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## Twin Peak (Nov 18, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by 1Fast400 *_
> Is your prostate hanging out of your ass yet?



Mike, what was this comment directed towards?  The high does?  I know it was a joke, but just curious.


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## ZECH (Nov 18, 2002)

Prohormones in general, especially taken for long periods of time can enlarge your prostate. I don't think these short cycles will though! And just for Mikes info, I just had it checked seveal weeks ago at my annual checkup and it was fine! Damn I hate that!!


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## ZECH (Nov 21, 2002)

Today I got 310 on bench. Just 5lb away from the elusive 315! I have 10 days left of 1ad. While stacking it with 4/ad I hope I can squeeze out 315 in the next several workouts. I think it's possible.


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## Twin Peak (Nov 21, 2002)

Should be.  Since my pb is 405 does that mean 495 is the next mark?  I am actually just hoping for a nice round 450 some day.


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## ZECH (Nov 21, 2002)

Well, here's a guide. I gained 30 lb on my bench first cyle. And I have gained 15 on this one(265 to 310, 45 lbs.) So if you would do the same in two consecutive cycles, you would do 450!! Sounds good doesn't it! Where does it stand now? 405??


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## Twin Peak (Nov 22, 2002)

I really don't know.  My PB was in 98 when I did 405.  At that time I was able to do 315 for about 7 reps (this is after inclines).  I haven't maxed now cuz my shoulder has been bothering me but I am stronger now on inclines than I was then and I can do 315 for prolly 7 or 8 reps WHEN my shoulder isn't hurting.  So I'd say I am around 405.


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## ZECH (Nov 22, 2002)

Just curious..........when I'm on 1-test and 4/ad, my elbow or shoulder doesn't hurt as bad as when I'm not on it. Have you experienced this yet on your cycle?


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## Twin Peak (Nov 22, 2002)

nope.


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## gopro (Nov 22, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Just curious..........when I'm on 1-test and 4/ad, my elbow or shoulder doesn't hurt as bad as when I'm not on it. Have you experienced this yet on your cycle?



There is some anti-inflammitory and recuperative effects on joints with prohormones as there is with some steroids. Most steroid users end up with very sore joints when off cycle, even if they don't lift that heavy.


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## Twin Peak (Nov 22, 2002)

Oh great.


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## gopro (Nov 22, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Oh great.



Don't worry...its rare with PHs.


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## Twin Peak (Nov 22, 2002)

Yeah, but if my shoulders hurt while ON and I am lifting quite heavy, then I may be screwed OFF.  If it gets much worse I won't be able to lift.


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## gopro (Nov 22, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Yeah, but if my shoulders hurt while ON and I am lifting quite heavy, then I may be screwed OFF.  If it gets much worse I won't be able to lift.



If you are worried, begin using a glucosomine/chondroitin supplement about 2 weeks before coming off. Don't get too worried about it though.


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## Twin Peak (Nov 23, 2002)

Already use it religiously....bad joints ya know!


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## gopro (Nov 23, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Already use it religiously....bad joints ya know!



Believe me, years of heavy training have left my joints screaming too! I'm there with ya bro!


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## ZECH (Dec 2, 2002)

Weight is at 191 as of today on this cycle..............


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## Twin Peak (Dec 2, 2002)

DG are you ON now, and if so, what?  I forget.  Btw, I posted my final results this AM in my journal.  The six weeks is up.


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## ZECH (Dec 2, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> DG are you ON now, and if so, what?  I forget.  Btw, I posted my final results this AM in my journal.  The six weeks is up.


 Getting toward the end of the cycle. I started with a bottle of superone+. It lasted close to three week. Then I bought a bottle of 4/ad(Avant). I still wanted some 1t in with the 4ad so I am taking 1-ad with that. ....(800mg a day). (600mg a day of 4/ad). I have two days left of 1-ad. The 4/ad will last several more days.


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## Twin Peak (Dec 2, 2002)

How do you like the transdermal application?


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## ZECH (Dec 2, 2002)

I think it is the only way to go!! If you try it next time, be sure to get a couple ml DMSO and mix in. It will help with the absorption!


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## Twin Peak (Dec 2, 2002)

Not sure what that is, got any info, articles, etc.


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## ZECH (Dec 2, 2002)

yeah, I'll get it after lunch.


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## ZECH (Dec 2, 2002)

Tickled shitless! I squeaked out 315 on bench today!


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## Twin Peak (Dec 2, 2002)

Very nice.


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## ZECH (Dec 2, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Not sure what that is, got any info, articles, etc.


http://www.dmso.org/subLevels/what.htm
Also read the first page of this thread!


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## hardHITer001 (Dec 4, 2002)

How did the dmso treat ya? Did it make you stink? How much did you use?


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## ZECH (Dec 4, 2002)

I haven't tried it yet. Probably will next cycle.


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## gopro (Dec 6, 2002)

I repeat...

DG=prohormonefreak!!!!!!!

They should name a prohormone after you!


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## Twin Peak (Dec 6, 2002)

How about 1, 4 DG?

But then he might be banned to.  Lots of bad stuff for the industry flying around in the last few days.


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## ZECH (Dec 6, 2002)

4/dg
dg-test??


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## gopro (Dec 6, 2002)

I was thinking something a little more "stylistic," like...DG-abol or DG-avar or DecaGrow-DG or DG-testin or DG-ione. It will be a suppository delivery for maximum uptake...will have no side effects...and can be taken continously for up to 6 years before a 2 week break is recommended.


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## ZECH (Dec 6, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by gopro *_
> It will be a suppository delivery for maximum uptake...will have no side effects...


*I don't think so!!*


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## gopro (Dec 6, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> *I don't think so!!*



Ok, fine...many side effects including the growth of a 3rd arm and a tail. The delivery will be a shampoo. The drug goes into your hair follicles and directly into the brain!


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## ZECH (Dec 6, 2002)

COOL!


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## ZECH (Dec 7, 2002)

seriously though, I'm only on my third cycle and I've had equal time between cycles. So that would equate to about 4 or maybe 5, 4 week cycles a year.


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## gopro (Dec 7, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> seriously though, I'm only on my third cycle and I've had equal time between cycles. So that would equate to about 4 or maybe 5, 4 week cycles a year.



You know I'm just playing with ya!


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## ZECH (Dec 7, 2002)

Yeah I know. But just in case they are any supplement presidents out there that want a test person..........


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## Twin Peak (Dec 9, 2002)

Wrong forum.


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## gopro (Dec 9, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Yeah I know. But just in case they are any supplement presidents out there that want a test person..........



Yes...all future prohormone/prosteroid testing should be done on dg806! And all he requests is a lifetime supply if the stuff works!


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## ZECH (Dec 9, 2002)

Sounds good to me! Maybe I will be as big as you one day!
NOT!!!


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## ZECH (Dec 10, 2002)

Well 315 last week was not a fluke. It actually went up a little easier today!


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## Twin Peak (Dec 10, 2002)

Good.  You are still "on" right?  What's the next milestone for you?  After I hit THREE PLATES, the next mark for me was THREE AND QUARTERS.  In between was just nice.

Was this after a w/o or just a 1 RM?

Hey maybe you should move this to a max bench thread?


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## ZECH (Dec 10, 2002)

Yep still on. Three and a quarter is a hell of a long way. I'll be happy to get to 335 next!
My workout was.....
135x10 warmup
185 x10
225x 10
255x5
275x4
300x1
315x1
275x5
275x4
225x10


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## Twin Peak (Dec 10, 2002)

Damn thats a lot of sets, low, low reps though.  Are you seeing real growth from this?

Yes there are mini-steps, but I am talking serious goals man!  Hell I want to get 435, or even 420, but 450 has a nice ring, as does 455 (4 plates and quarters) so that would be really excellent.


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## ZECH (Dec 10, 2002)

yes, I can tell I'm getting thicker and strength is still increasing slowly. It's like 4 sets of 10 reps not counting warm up.....not too bad. Yeah I'm wanting serious goals too but just a little more optimistic I guess. I'll be happy with what ever I get. I never really thought I would get 315 so who knows. I'll just keep inching at it!


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## kuso (Dec 10, 2002)

dg...if you were using Super ONE then why the need for Molecular?


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## ZECH (Dec 10, 2002)

I'm not taking molecular. I have some 4/ad and ergopharm 1-ad


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## ZECH (Dec 10, 2002)

This is after the super one+........


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## ZECH (Dec 10, 2002)

I for some reason respond to 4/ad maybe better than 1-test. Not sure exactly. But the 4/ad and 1-ad seem to work good....


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## kuso (Dec 10, 2002)

Sorry, I thought I read somewhere you "still had some molecular left over" but that could have been the 1=ad I`m thinking....just ignor me


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## ZECH (Dec 10, 2002)

no you were probably right but that was the previous cycle a couple months ago!


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## gopro (Dec 13, 2002)

So dg...what PHs and PSs have you tried so far and how would you rate each? Also, what companies have each product come from? Can you make a little list?


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## ZECH (Dec 13, 2002)

Am I gonna get flamed for this???


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## kuso (Dec 13, 2002)

never


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## ZECH (Dec 14, 2002)

yeah right!


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## kuso (Dec 14, 2002)

LOL...it was a joke, but hey, if we can learn from your success/mistakes I`m sure everyone would appreciate it.


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## ZECH (Dec 14, 2002)

Ok GP....Here is my list and my thoughts.

1-test gel by Avant
4-ad gel by Avant
Super one+ by 1fast400 (combo 1-test and 4/ad)
1-ad by Ergopharm
1-T ethergels by Molecular Nutrition
1,4 Andro (Boldione) by Molecular Nutrition - Also some 1,4 that 1fast capped.
6-Oxo by Ergopharm
Fuzu by syntrax (not really a PH)

The 1-test kicks butt. Although for me after doing a couple bottles I find that it takes longer for me to notice the effects on the gel vs. Oral(1-ad). It takes me about 3 to 3 1/2 weeks to start noticing major strength increases. But when it starts I can just about count on 5 lbs on bench each week for a month. With 1-ad it doesn't take that long(usually 1-2 weeks). I also seem to think for me that the gel doesn't effect my test levels as much as 1-ad. After 4 weeks on the gel I notice no testicle atrophy. But after 10 days of 1-ad I do! Maybe it's just me?
I also love the 4-ad. The little water retention for me works wonders in strength almost as much as the 1-test. If I had to pick one over the other it is a tough call. It also helpd me with joint pain. While I'm on 4/ad, I don't ache nearly as bad(remember I'm 39 now).

The super one+ is a combo of 1-test and 4/ad and In my opinion I think this is what I will stick with from now on. This is a very good combination. You get the best of both worlds. Though for some if you are worried about hair loss you may want to stay away from 4/ad. I have not experienced this problem.
I also like the 1-ad. I have used it several times, stacking it with 4ad gel. But because of the testicle atrophy I am beginning to not like it as good as the gel. But it is still a great product.
The 1-t ethergels are almost identicle to 1-ad IMO. I got about the same results and feel. The only thing I noticed different was that the 1-t ethergels gave me some big acne bumps on my back! The 1,4 made me really hungry. I did not think it made me hard and vascular like some say, but it did help me eat to gain weight and size. Not sure if I will do this again or not? It takes at least 900mg a day IMO and it gets very expensive at this dosage. (Do the benefits outweigh the price? I don't think so.....)
After my 8 week cycle I used 6-oxo and Fuzu. I didn't notice anything on the 6-oxo until the second bottle but I had a long cycle and thus it was a longer recover. But I do think it works well. I also have used Fuzu before and I love this stuff. This stuff makes your libido go crazy!! 
Seems like if my memory serves me right that when I started my first cycle at the beggining of summer my bench was at 255 and my body weight was around 172-174.
As of today my bench is 315 and my bodyweight is 193. So in 7 months I have made some incredible gains. I just wish I could gain as much next year! And for some of the new people reading this it is not just the PH's that have done this. I have really concentrated big time on my diet this year along with my protein intake. I train usually 5 days a week and I get as much rest as I can. Those are just as important factors.  
GP I have probably forgotten something but I can add it later, Hope that helps.


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## gopro (Dec 14, 2002)

Thanks dg...I just thought it would be helpful for those members that are trying to figure this whole PH/PS thing out, to hear about someones experiences with a few of the more popular products. I do not use PHs or PSs myself, but do test them on clients that wish to use them. I'll write more about that in the future.


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## ZECH (Dec 14, 2002)

too bad they may not be around much longer.......


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## Twin Peak (Dec 16, 2002)

His clients?  Are you implying dangerous results?


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## Twin Peak (Dec 16, 2002)

DG, how has your diet and or training changed across products?


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## ZECH (Dec 16, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> His clients?  Are you implying dangerous results?


No! I am speaking of the PH legislation.


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## ZECH (Dec 16, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> DG, how has your diet and or training changed across products?


Up until this cycle it pretty much stayed the same through the summer. I watched what I ate and kept my protein intake high. THis cycle I wanted to bulk more(the reason for taking 1,4 at start to increase my appetite). I really have eaten pretty clean up until the last several weeks. I had a birthday as did my daughter and wife. Lots of cake!!! But I don't really care at this point. I gained a little fat but nothing I don't think I can't get off. I'm up to 195 today! Some of my dress shirts and police shirts are tight! Can't hardly get them on~~~~I like it!


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## Twin Peak (Dec 16, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> No! I am speaking of the PH legislation.



Thanks for clarifying.  

But actually, I KNEW THAT!


----------



## Arnold (Feb 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Yep still on. Three and a quarter is a hell of a long way. I'll be happy to get to 335 next!
> My workout was.....
> 135x10 warmup
> ...



I was reading thru this thread to get more insight on 1 test, 1 ad and 4 ad.

this post caught my eye, *dg806* from what I read your goal was to increase your bench press. 

Why do you feel it necessary to do 10 sets on bench and why do you pyramid?

Just curious?


----------



## ZECH (Feb 12, 2003)

The sets helps my endurence which in turn helps my strength. I feel If I stop at the high poundage, my muscles are not fatiqued. Maybe if I did more reps going up they would be, but then I would not get the max strength.............( it has worked for me anyway). And if you go to Avant's website(used to be anyway), they said increase your workout load at least by 1.5 or you were under training while on 1-test. It supports much more training because of the increased recovery time.
BTW Prince I did go from 255 to 315 in 1 yr..........


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## ZECH (Mar 22, 2003)

Been almost three months since I went off my last cycle right before Christmas. I have ordered some 1-test and 4-ad powder from 1fast and I have some gel I ordered from BDC w/dmso. I also have two bottles of San T-100 to try. Not sure how I am going to do this yet. When my powder gets here next week, I am going to mix it up and get ready. Time to try to gain some more size for summer. I'm curious as to how the BDC gel w/DMSO will work compared to Avant. I'll keep ya updated.


----------



## Arnold (Mar 22, 2003)

cool, I have 4 bottles of One+ and 4 bottles of Super One+ but I have not started them yet!


----------



## Wolfpack22 (Mar 22, 2003)

Will prohormones cause any permanent damage to your natural ability to build muscle?


----------



## ZECH (Mar 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> cool, I have 4 bottles of One+ and 4 bottles of Super One+ but I have not started them yet!


What are waiting on?????????


----------



## ZECH (Mar 23, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Wolfpack22 *_
> Will prohormones cause any permanent damage to your natural ability to build muscle?


No....................you just need to have time off after or between cycles to let your natural test levels return to normal. That is why I am taking 12 weeks off after my last cycle before starting the next.


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## ZECH (Mar 23, 2003)

Just to bring up for new people..............
An example of suggested cycles per year.......
4 on 4 off
4 on 6 off
4 on 8 off
4 on 12 off.................that is a whole year for ya!


----------



## ZECH (Mar 29, 2003)

I mixed my powders in my gel last night. It took a few minutes to get it mixed but went rather well. There is no smell of DMSO in the gel due to the citrus smell from the D-Limonene. I think I am actually going to order some supplies today to make my own gel.....this should be fun!! Anyway, I'm not sure when I will start a new cycle yet. Might be a couple more weeks. I think I am going to stock up on a few things first. This PH bill looming is not looking good.


----------



## Twin Peak (Mar 29, 2003)

Yeah, recent news has not been particularly good.


----------



## ZECH (Apr 16, 2003)

I coudn't wait any longer. After 14 weeks off I started a new cycle on 4-03-03. It has been almost 2 weeks. I am doing 1-test/4ad with DMSO. I can really feel this stuff working. I just squeaked up 315 Monday on bench....so my strength is not quite up yet. I hope to add 20 lbs to this before I'm done(335). Hey I can dream can't I?? I didn't loose a whole lot of strength off cycle except I did learn some things. I tried something new. I wanted to know how much a difference 6- oxo and/or fuzu made post cycle. Well it did take a long time to recover without it. So I don't think I will ever go without something again. IT DOES HELP! My weight right now is 194/195. Hopefully I may add a few more. I can actually tell I have "swelled" up a little already. I think I can say the DMSO has helped get the PH in quicker than before. It usually took 3 to 4 weeks for me to notice much. I have some 4/ad left over from a previous cycle that I have been using during the day on my arms. I put on 1-test/4ad first thing in the morning(6am) and again about 10pm. I use the 4ad at noon at lunch when I work out. So I'm getting a heavy dose on the 4ad. I feel better right now(joints and pain) than I have in a while. I have some T-100 I want to try to see how the oral 1-test works. Even though it is an ester, I will take it with flax oil. I will probably give myself several weeks though before starting to see the true benefits of it. My back is still bugging me from hurting it late last fall squatting. I have found a good doctor that lifts that I'm going to make an appointment with to check it out. I miss my heavy squats!! I will probably take some measurements in a week or two.


----------



## Gettin'old (Apr 16, 2003)

What a kick-ass hilarious thread. DG, you should be a test pilot, heh, heh. Is there anything you haven't tried.

DG's motto: If it's a PH, slap it on there!

BTW, nice freakin' gains!


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## Arnold (Apr 16, 2003)

he's a nut!


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## ZECH (Apr 16, 2003)

GO, yes I have made myself a guniea pig on purpose! When I joined this board I wanted to learn as much as possible. I also wanted to give real feedback on products and not hear say! I think that is much more valauble. I really don't think i Have went overboard though. I allow myself enough time between cycles. Now I know guys that stay on for months. One guy has been on since January and has no plan to go off before late summer. I also learn from him!!(BTW he competes and is very big @ 45 yrs old) I have made some good gains, but I have busted my ass the last two years in the gym and with my diet! I still have a long way to go!!!!!


----------



## ZECH (Apr 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> he's a nut!


 You're jealous!!!!!!!!! J/K


----------



## ZECH (Apr 28, 2003)

Just a quick update..........stepped on the scales this morning and weighed 196. Close to my goal of 200. I actually looked a little leaner last night than I have looked lately. I started taking san t-100 and a-100 last week. I measured my arms last week and they were 16 3/4". I want to get 17". I may go for my personal record on bench today.....depends on how I'm feeling?? Getting past 315 is a big mental thing to me. And I am so fucking tired of chicken right now!!


----------



## Twin Peak (Apr 28, 2003)

We share the same goal.  To get to 200.


----------



## ZECH (Apr 28, 2003)

LMAO!! Wanna Race!


----------



## Twin Peak (Apr 28, 2003)

No, you are a lot closer than I.


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## ZECH (Apr 28, 2003)

But those last four pounds will be tough!! Then when I cut, I will be looking to do it all again!!!! Hopefully I will be closer though next time!!


----------



## Twin Peak (Apr 28, 2003)

Tis easy.  Just eat more.

I can gain 4 pounds in a day.


----------



## ZECH (Apr 28, 2003)

Yeah..................I want to stay as close to quality muscle gains as I can. Fat at 39 is not as easy to lose as it was at 29.


----------



## Robboe (Apr 28, 2003)

Well here's a new goal for you - get younger.


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## ZECH (Apr 28, 2003)

I'll get younger if you get as big as me!!


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## Robboe (Apr 28, 2003)

Ooooooooooooooooooooooo...


That there is fightin' talk.


----------



## ZECH (Apr 28, 2003)

Bring it ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Twin Peak (Apr 28, 2003)

I have the best both worlds.


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## bludevil (May 2, 2003)

I've got a question.

Im thinking of taking Super one + for four weeks then 6oxo. Do I still need to take a supp like Tribex 500 to help boost natural T levels or will the 6oxo be enough. By the way, 1st cycle of PH so I'm excited.


----------



## ZECH (May 2, 2003)

At only four weeks it should be enough! 6-oxo will boost the t-levels and trib is mostly for libido! So if your libido is low, get some Trib(I reccomend Fuzu)


----------



## racoon02 (May 2, 2003)

Can you buy 1-test over the counter? I went to nutrition depo and all I saw was 1-AD. I also prefer oral, because im a big wuss and am scared of needles!


----------



## Tkarrde (May 2, 2003)

1-AD is direct precursor to 1-test (converts upon ingestion); many actually prefer 1AD over other oral 1-test alternatives, though Molecular Nutrition's 1-T ethergels have also received high marks.

Yes, 1-test can absolutely be purchased OTC.


----------



## ZECH (May 15, 2003)

Well so far the San T-100 and A-100 has not impressed me. I know this will dissapoint GP!! I am still around 194/195 in weight. No increases in strength or weight since taking the orals. One thing I did notice was the larthargy. I started taking 600mg T-100 and 600mg A-100, along with some 4/aderm morning and night every day! I got so tired feeling, I couldn't get my ass out of bed in the morning. Several mornings I went in to work several hours late just to get more sleep. Once I get up I'm fine. So from the larthargy I know something is happening, but I can't figure why there was no strength increase. Kevin(http://www.pkresearch.biz/) told me yesterday that I look bigger than I have yet. So maybe the size thing is working. Which ain't too bad!! So, it's hard for me to really get an idea on how the SAN worked?? IMO, (sorry GP), I don't think it worked any better than 1ad, but I think they are equal. Me and Kevin talked about that and it still doesn't make sense to me how that is. Looks like to me with the conversion of 1/ad, you would loose some(obvious), and maybe you do, but I also think you loose some of the oral 1-test through the liver. From what I have told so far is that the transdermals and orals(1-ad, SAN, and Molecular) are very close in terms of results. I would pick the transdermals for one reason. Every time I start on orals, my nuts shrink within a week. With transdermals, even after 4-6 weeks, this does not happen. Doesn't seem to me the transdermals are as hard on MY body as the orals are. I would love to do a blood panel at different times to check the difference.


----------



## Twin Peak (May 16, 2003)

600 mg of 1T is a lot.  If you are doing that orally, and not getting fast results, something is wrong.


----------



## ZECH (May 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> 600 mg of 1T is a lot.  If you are doing that orally, and not getting fast results, something is wrong.


I have been taking them with flax oil and my protein intake is about 400g a day. I'm beginning to think it doesn't work. And I have taken 900mg 0f 1-ad a day! This was the pupose of the experiment to see if it worked or not??


----------



## Twin Peak (May 16, 2003)

Sounds very much like it doesn't.

What's the highest level of 1T you have used trans?

I have gone up to 400, which is a very high dose, and I see significant increasings in strength even while I am dieting let alone at 400g of protein.

Save your cash.


----------



## ZECH (May 16, 2003)

I've never went over 12 squirts a day(400). It is my opinion that after a couple weeks you will flatten out in your gains, but at least with the transdermals they have been consistent. The San thing has me puzzled and dissapointed. I had tried Molecular 1-t before and liked it. Got good results. And it has far less dosage. Think my receptors have built a tolerance right now and just are not responding??


----------



## Twin Peak (May 16, 2003)

No, I do not think it is a "tolerance."

Go back to a transdermal and find out.


----------



## Robboe (May 16, 2003)

Since i'm so lazy, how much 1-T does SuperOne+ administer with 6 squirts?


----------



## ZECH (May 16, 2003)

Hmmmmm...........
at 30 days(12 squirts a day) one gives you 200mg a day
super one+ gives you 324.5 a day


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## Twin Peak (May 16, 2003)

"HMMMM" my ass.

Don't pretend like you don't have that shit memorized!


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## ZECH (May 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> I've never went over 12 squirts a day(400). It is my opinion that after a couple weeks you will flatten out in your gains, but at least with the transdermals they have been consistent. The San thing has me puzzled and dissapointed. I had tried Molecular 1-t before and liked it. Got good results. And it has far less dosage. Think my receptors have built a tolerance right now and just are not responding??


Actually 12 squirts of super one is 324.5 a day instead of 400!


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## ZECH (May 16, 2003)

Actually did have to think...........
6000 divided by 30 =200
9375 divided by 30 = 312.5                See screwed up....transposed my numbers!


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## ZECH (Jun 3, 2003)

I have come to the conclusion for many reasons that receptors do get a built up tolerence. Each cycle you do requires more PH to get the same result as last cycle!  I think even after many months that your receptors still have a tolerance. They may always stay that way?? I think you can still get growth benifits from them, but the strength increases will never rival the first cycle.


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## gopro (Jun 3, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> I have come to the conclusion for many reasons that receptors do get a built up tolerence. Each cycle you do requires more PH to get the same result as last cycle!  I think even after many months that your receptors still have a tolerance. They may always stay that way?? I think you can still get growth benifits from them, but the strength increases will never rival the first cycle.



Hey! That is what I said


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## ZECH (Jun 4, 2003)

I said it first............go back a few posts!!  You just helped me come to the conclusion I was right!


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## ZECH (Jun 4, 2003)

Not to take away from GP.........that was not my intention big guy!! Here is what he said!

Sometimes I worry about those that have done many PH cycles b/c over time the receptors become less and less reactive to them. Just like with steroids, the guys that use them need to take more and more each time they use them to get the same result. Just make sure your body is well rested before you take a new cycle.


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## gopro (Jun 4, 2003)

I was just playing dg my man. I didn't read the posts before mine. I'm sure you had this figured long before we talked.


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## ZECH (Jun 4, 2003)

No No!!! I had some suspicions. But I had always believed from what I knew that after double your time off from cycle that they would be normal. I can just about say now that is not the case! I think it takes MUCH longer. And they may never return to where they where?? I'm like you, I believe the biggest gains will be from the first cycle usually. And maybe the second will be good also. But from there, I believe you start getting diminished results.


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## JoshH (Jun 4, 2003)

i have some SuperOne+ and Boldione on the way to use on my next training cycle, but i don't want to use it if it is gonna put on a lot of extra fat(like the stomach area, looking bloated), does it do that?


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## Twin Peak (Jun 4, 2003)

Food does that, not hormones.  To the contrary, you will be able to eat more kcals while on without gaining fat, as it is an effective nutrient partitioner.


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## JoshH (Jun 4, 2003)

ok thanks, just curious cause i'm really lean with almost no body fat and i don't want to sacrifice my low bf to gain muscle.  i was taking phosphagen hp for awhile and my stomach was bloated all the damn time.  i just want to add muscle without the extra gut.


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## Twin Peak (Jun 4, 2003)

You certainly can, though if you don't allow for some fat gains you will sacrifice some muscle gains.


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## JoshH (Jun 4, 2003)

long as it comes back off   i'd like to keep the 6-pack.


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## freeridert (Jun 26, 2003)

whats the full name for 6-oxo? where can you purchace such a product?  im thinkin of going on DG's stack.     thanks


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## ZECH (Jun 26, 2003)

1fast400.com - also get your 1-ad here


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## freeridert (Jun 26, 2003)

thanks man. is t-bomb a good source for 1-test?
and can i take creatine with it or what?


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## oaktownboy (Jul 3, 2003)

hey dg806, did you experience any side effects during the 1-ad cycle? also, is it better to stack 1-ad with another product or take it by itself?


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## ZECH (Jul 4, 2003)

If you take it at 600mg/day or more, I would definately add some 4/ad in!


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## ZECH (Oct 31, 2003)

Next week...............time to start a new cycle. Hmmmmmmmmm, m1-t, homebrew fina??


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## Twin Peak (Oct 31, 2003)

Been there, done that.


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## HoldDaMayo (Oct 31, 2003)

I just read this thread, very interesting, lots of info... this should be a sticky... 

I'm going to stack 1-AD with SuperOne+ I'm not going to do a crazy dosage of 1-AD though, I just want to see how doing a low to moderate dosage of each will work...


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## ZECH (Nov 1, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> Been there, done that.


I haven't quite decided yet what I want? And I'm not talking Transdermal fina.


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## ZECH (Nov 18, 2003)

I have decided on what to take. It is a brand new supp with new cutting edge technology! More info tomorrow or Thursday. Very promising and this oral will give better absorption than transdermals!


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