# Carb Cycling Sample Menus?



## ponyboy (Oct 7, 2003)

Anyone know where I can find these?  I'm interested in trying one of these diets out, but want more info...I searched Avant and here and can't find a sample diet layout.  

Anyone have a link?


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## Jodi (Oct 7, 2003)

Check out my signature.  Its TP's carb cycling diet guidlines.


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## ponyboy (Oct 7, 2003)

Thanks Jodi but I already found that  

What I was looking for was more sample daily menus...like DP has laid out in his cutting/bulking plans.  Any idea where something like that might be?


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## Jodi (Oct 7, 2003)

No he doesn't have sample diets.  The diet is very simple and its layed out with detail.  Its quite simple to create your own.  You can check out my old journal The Cut of No Return but our quantities would be much different.


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## ponyboy (Oct 7, 2003)

I'm just a lazy schmuck who likes to have templates to follow  

I'll use your journal as a good guideline and go from there....thanks for the help!


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## Twin Peak (Oct 7, 2003)

It is designed with a fairly limited food choice, making planning relatively easy, but the choices and combos are up to you.


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## _Aj (Oct 7, 2003)

Any new developments since you wrote that article. And can you apply something like it for a bulking phase. If So, can you PM me some details. Thanks.

AJ


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## J'Bo (Oct 8, 2003)

i have a bulking phase of the diet in my journal if you want to check it out "buildin a better bod". however you will have to adjust your macros to your bodyweight.


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## Twin Peak (Oct 8, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by _Aj *_
> Any new developments since you wrote that article. And can you apply something like it for a bulking phase. If So, can you PM me some details. Thanks.
> 
> AJ



Yes, you can turn this diet to a bulk, as I alluded to in the article.  I have not written that portion of the next article yet, nor have I shared my thoughts with anyone on this yet, but will soon.

However, if you are an ectomorph, I'd not recommend this for a bulk.

For now, I would suggest 4 high carb days per week, all on workout days; 2 low carb days; and one no carb day.  This should be an excellent starting place and can and should be adjusted as you go.  You are looking for 1/2 to 3/4 pound gain per week, unless you are using PH/PS/or AAS.

You should also monitor stomach measurements, and if increasing more than a 1/4 inch per month, adjust accordingly.


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## hardasnails1973 (Oct 8, 2003)

cycle  calories is fine if you get fat add in 2-3 sessions of HIT cardio to offset fat gain. keep caloires where they are


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## Twin Peak (Oct 8, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by hardasnails1973 *_
> cycle  calories is fine if you get fat add in 2-3 sessions of HIT cardio to offset fat gain. keep caloires where they are



Han, how is this relevant here?  He is asking about, and I am talking about, the Carb Cycling Diet I laid out in detail in my article in Mind and Muscle Magazine.

If you have read it and would like to make a specific comment or critique, feel free, but to talk in the abstract, is not relevant to the discussion at hand.


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## hardasnails1973 (Oct 8, 2003)

just making statement " if you get fat don't drop caloires add in cardio "


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## _Aj (Oct 8, 2003)

Thanks Dante and Hardasnails.

Currently I weigh 180llbs and BF is well I test under 10 but have the majority around my stomach with some loose skin, So I am hoping to bulk a little and then use this type of diet to cut. Waist is 34.5 and I measure 25mm on a skinfold around the gut. Chest an triceps are both under 10mm.

What do you suggest I start my cals/protein/fat intake at. And high High do you suggest I go go with my carb load days. I do plan on doing hiit am just take in carbs post workout in the form of oatmeal.

Now all I need is rough estimates as I HATE counting cals. I do a per meals basis now, eating 8 meals a day and getting 25-50g protein per meal and fat is 15-30 per meal, with some protein and veggie meals in there. My calorie level is roughly 2000-2600 depending on how long my day is, eating every 2-3hrs at the very most 4.

A couple more questions, at what rate does your body start converting protein into glucose and causing a insulin response.

Overall I do better low carbing it. As my carb load have gotten preety high. So this is why I think that I can have success with a diet like this. 

Btw, I gain fat pretty easily. So I will moniter all the way, Ideally I would like to bulk up to 200llbs at least.

Thanks, and I am looking forward to your next article. I am a frequent visitor on Avants site.


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## Jodi (Oct 8, 2003)

Actually that Twin Peak


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## Twin Peak (Oct 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Actually that Twin Peak



I was wondering how Dante mysteriously showed up in this thread.


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## Twin Peak (Oct 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by _Aj *_
> Thanks Dante and Hardasnails.
> 
> Currently I weigh 180llbs and BF is well I test under 10 but have the majority around my stomach with some loose skin, So I am hoping to bulk a little and then use this type of diet to cut. Waist is 34.5 and I measure 25mm on a skinfold around the gut. Chest an triceps are both under 10mm.
> ...



First, I am not Dante, he is far more good looking than I.

Second, the stomach skinfold measurement is interesting, and Jodi will understand what I mean.  Comparatively, my stomach is about 36 inches right now, but the skin fold measurement is around 18 mm.

Third, this plan is NOT a carb loading plan, per se.  So if you want to understand the amounts of carbs to eat on your high carb days, reread the article.  I don't mean this in a mean way, its just that it is explained in there, better than I can reiterate here.  But essentially, it is an UNLIMITED amount of carbs, but only certain carbs, and only at certain meals.

I am gload you enjoyed the article.


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## _Aj (Oct 9, 2003)

Sorry about that. Actually I think that I finished reading an article just before I wrote this one written by Dante, and that is why I had his name stuck in my mind.

Alright I will re-read the arcticle and make a plan out to critique, other than that I appreciate your help, Twin Peak


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## Twin Peak (Oct 9, 2003)

No problem.

Dante is a good friend of mine.


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## _Aj (Oct 9, 2003)

That's is I click on your link, and the top title say " Thus spoke Dante" That is why I think I put dante down. Anyways about the fruit sinse your in a caloric surplus do you still reccomend the fruit, i think that I will anyways becasue I miss fruit and if someone tells me it ok I will enjoy it. 

I will make out a plan for you to critique, so far from my understanding it is kinda like Rob Faigins NHE plan, which I really am enjoying as I started that before I read this article, but I think yours explains different factors better.


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## Twin Peak (Oct 9, 2003)

No, its quite different from NHE, from what I know of it.

Yes, the fruit is less necessary in a bulk (for sending the fed signal) but is still useful due to the fiber, vitamins and antioxidant.


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## Jodi (Oct 9, 2003)

It is very different from NHE.  NHE has a 5 day rotation, 4 low carb days (30-60) then on the 5th day you carb up in the last meals.  Similar to a DP & w8 plan.


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## Leslie (Oct 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Similar to a DP & w8 plan.




Which actually wasn't a DP&W8 plan, it was  a Beverly International diet

I know you just finished the NHE book, did it turn you on to try it?


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## Premo55 (Oct 9, 2003)

TP, I'm VERY interested in using your diet as a bulking diet, when I was cutting I used DP+W8's plan (three sub-35g carb days, one carb-up day at the last meal), got down to 5%/6% while doing quite a bit of HIIT, and I've been basically eating maintenance calories for the past two and a half months, and have returned to around 8 or 9%. I want to put on some quality LBM with minimal fat gain, and I was wondering if your plan or DP's conventional slow-carb bulk plan would be a better option for me...WIth my experience with cyclical diets, I know my body handles them VERY well, and I actually enjoy low or no carb days because of the spartan control I can exercise on my diet...I predict even on high carb days I'll still be measuring stuff, though, I can't allow myself to gratuitously gorge on stuff...Let me know, though, great article, btw...Jodi, any words of advice here?

Conceptually I think this is my plan...
Monday- High (Quads, calves)
Tuesday-Low (Chest, triceps)
Wednesday- No (Rest day)
Thursday- High (Back, biceps)
Friday- Low (Shoulders, traps)
Saturday- No (Rest day)
Sunday- High (Hamstrings and lower back)

Would this work out? On maintenance I've been eating like the low-carb days, anyway, so I don't see how it would be excruciating for me, this diet seems even less stringent than my present maintenance diet (I'm taking in less than 150g of carbs daily right now, I'm 6'0" 170, taking in approx. 2200-2300 cals daily), I'm definitely gonna use it as my next cutting diet...

Peace.


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## hardasnails1973 (Oct 9, 2003)

up those caloires boy by 250 caloires a week.  best way to measure fat to muscle ratio is if your biceps are growing and waist is staying the same you are headed in right direction.  If you waist gets a little puffy add some another cardio session and then see what happens after a week or 2.  Gaining lean muscle is a slow process buy if you have all variable in place and keep close monitor on your self you will be better in the end.  Slow and steady !!


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## Twin Peak (Oct 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Premo55 *_
> TP, I'm VERY interested in using your diet as a bulking diet, when I was cutting I used DP+W8's plan (three sub-35g carb days, one carb-up day at the last meal), got down to 5%/6% while doing quite a bit of HIIT, and I've been basically eating maintenance calories for the past two and a half months, and have returned to around 8 or 9%. I want to put on some quality LBM with minimal fat gain, and I was wondering if your plan or DP's conventional slow-carb bulk plan would be a better option for me...WIth my experience with cyclical diets, I know my body handles them VERY well, and I actually enjoy low or no carb days because of the spartan control I can exercise on my diet...I predict even on high carb days I'll still be measuring stuff, though, I can't allow myself to gratuitously gorge on stuff...Let me know, though, great article, btw...Jodi, any words of advice here?
> 
> Conceptually I think this is my plan...
> ...



That plan generally looks good.  Unless you are an extreme endomorph it might not be enough calories.  Try this.  If you aren't gaining at least 1/2 pound per week, make one of those low carb days a high carb day.

Also, no cardio.
Thanks.

That


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## Calmdwn (Oct 9, 2003)

TP,

I also read your article im M&M.  I like the way the diet sounds, and plan on starting on Sunday.  Im currently 195lbs about 15% bf, and the plan is to get between 8-10%bf.  I had a few questions.  First was regarding no carb days.  I know the green veggies are ok, but what about the carbs and sugar in protein powder and cottage cheese?  On the no carb days do you mean zero carbs or some very low number like 20 or 30?  My only other question is about calories for the day.  My understanding is you dont worry about calories, but rely on your body to tell you when you have had enough food.  Is this accurate?  Sorry for all the questions.  I know i should just wait for the next article, whick im sure will answer many questions.  But im too eager to start the diet.


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## Jodi (Oct 9, 2003)

No carbs mean just that No Carbs.   The only thing your eating that day that contains any significant carbs is your 3 meals of veggies but don't worry about that.

On your high carb days, Yes, listen to your body.  Don't stuff yourself but instead eat til your satisfied.


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## Calmdwn (Oct 9, 2003)

Thanks Jodi.  So then on no carb days, should  i not eat any protein powder or cottage cheese since they have between 3-4g of sugar per serving.  I know its not a lot, but enough servings and it could add up by the end of the day.  Sorry, im compulsive so i have to ask the questions!   If thats the case i could see it being a real SOB getting 300-400g of protein with out a least a shake or two.


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## hardasnails1973 (Oct 9, 2003)

the secret to gaining fat free mass is simple but very dificult to find the right combination.

here is the key

tp states post workout nutitrion is important and carb need to be taken in a certain times wether it be (pre, during and post) and some times other times off the day  (similar to animalbolics, swole game plan and may popular eating patterns) 

now the secret is finding the right amount of carbs to replensh your glycogen levels and anything over that amount is going to be stored as fat.   think of it as try to fill a glass up- to the brime but then any spill over goes into fat storage.  The trickest part of this is that activityies out side tha post workout window can deplete or refill those levels.  AS suggested if time prevails the best time to workout would be in the morning becuase you could fill those levels to capactiy and then switch to tamper your carbs later on in the day time, but this is some times not always the case and if you workout at night time it offers more of a challenge juggling other carbs in meals outside your workout.  During the day time you use carbs for daily activites depending on your occupation, insulin sensitivity, lbm, genetics.  One just has to experiment to find out what amount is best for them and in time you will eventually find this out.  Instead of dropping caloires add a few sessions of cardio to offset the fat gain.  2-3 sessions of cardio is good for your heart becuase as you can weight your heart has to adapt and there are a very few people who are highly trained or have right mind set to Do HIT Weight training and count that as fat burning method.  Another thing that is coming up as a trend in past is people smaking in tons of sugar post workout for a workout og may be a total of 9 to 10 sets working.  Glycogen will be depelted by not enough to reach 100-120 grams of sugar ro repleish it not unless you are doing volume training of high reps and alots of sets.   Polquin make a very important comment that mount of glycogen you depelte would be based on total reps performed.  keep in mind this applies to a athlerte that is semi loaded with a decent preworkout load.   Prework meal withcarbs will determine the out come of your post workout meal as well as all the other carbs you have consumed during the day time,,  I hope this shed some light on how muscle is gained.  With glyocgen levels full charge up but not with too much over spill can one perform maxmium effort in the gym


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## _Aj (Oct 9, 2003)

How far should I space meals out on High Carb day. And on High Carb day if I cannot make it the last meal of the day, what do you suggest I eat for the remainder of the day.

Awesone thread BTW. I am going to have my first High carb day in a few days I will post my results.


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## hardasnails1973 (Oct 9, 2003)

listen to your body.  Rule of thumb if you eat alot don;t shove down the next meal untill you feel ready you can handle the next ones. some times when i eat I may not eat for another 3-4 hours or more. Don't over do it and just listen your body


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## Jodi (Oct 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Calmdwn *_
> Thanks Jodi.  So then on no carb days, should  i not eat any protein powder or cottage cheese since they have between 3-4g of sugar per serving.  I know its not a lot, but enough servings and it could add up by the end of the day.  Sorry, im compulsive so i have to ask the questions!   If thats the case i could see it being a real SOB getting 300-400g of protein with out a least a shake or two.


Of course.  I eat cottage cheese every night and drink protein everyday regardless of what day it is, no, low or high carb day


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## Jodi (Oct 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by _Aj *_
> How far should I space meals out on High Carb day. And on High Carb day if I cannot make it the last meal of the day, what do you suggest I eat for the remainder of the day.
> 
> Awesone thread BTW. I am going to have my first High carb day in a few days I will post my results.


Do you mean spacing your carb meals?  If thats the case then make sure the meal prior and after your workout is a carb meal.  I also do a carb meal in my first day and then fit the 4th carb meal wherever I see fit


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## Jodi (Oct 9, 2003)

BUMP FOR ROCK!!

TP states below and idea for bulking with carb cycling


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## Leslie (Oct 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Calmdwn *_
> Thanks Jodi.  So then on no carb days, should  i not eat any protein powder or cottage cheese since they have between 3-4g of sugar per serving.  I know its not a lot, but enough servings and it could add up by the end of the day.  Sorry, im compulsive so i have to ask the questions!   If thats the case i could see it being a real SOB getting 300-400g of protein with out a least a shake or two.



Unless you are preparing for a show or competition, cottage cheese  and powder consumption is ok. I would limit the cottage cheese with no more than 2 meals though.


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## Leslie (Oct 9, 2003)

OOps we posted simultaneoulsy


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## _Aj (Oct 9, 2003)

okay thanks so far for the info. 

Bump on what should I eat following the carb meals as to start I am going to only have 2 post training maybe on prior. 

For the one prior I find that I do better in the gym having FAT and Protein rather than a carb - sometime oatmeal is ok, but overall it protein that gives me the most amt of energy.

Also Hardasnails, me listen to my body is hard to do as can alot, I mean ALOT. It takes quite a bit to get me full, so I am going to try for 400g of carbs for that day spaced between 3 meals maybe 2.

But I really need to do a small bulk as I have been cuttin for too long. I know what work best for me and that is why I am really anticipating TP, next article.


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## Calmdwn (Oct 10, 2003)

Ok, thanks Jodi & Leslie.  I started this morning.  I decided to start with no carb today and tomorrow.  Then start a high, no, low, no cycle.  Any objections to this plan?  Cant wait to see the results!


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## Jodi (Oct 10, 2003)

Looks good but why did you decide that instead of the 3 day cycle? High, low, no


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## Calmdwn (Oct 10, 2003)

In the last year i have lost 70lbs.  Last october i was 5' 11" 262lbs, and im now between 190-195lbs.  I know the reason i got that heavy was gluttonous eating of all the wrong foods.  But i know many people who ate as bad or worse then me, and they stayed fairly lean.  So that leads me to believe i hold on to fat more easily then the average person.  Thats why i chose the cycle i did.  I could be way off the mark thinking this way, but that is my reasoning.  Would you suggest i start with the hi, low, no?


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## naturalguy (Oct 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Calmdwn *_
> Ok, thanks Jodi & Leslie.  I started this morning.  I decided to start with no carb today and tomorrow.  Then start a high, no, low, no cycle.  Any objections to this plan?  Cant wait to see the results!



Since you asked about objections, I can't help but throw my 2 cents in................................


I do agree with carb cycling, only I would NEVER do a no carb day. What I don't agree with is following a 3 day schedule because your very low and no carb days will fall on training days, it is extremely counterproductive to train on a no or very low carb day.

The way I do it is on my non training days (for me monday, wed., friday) I do lower carbs and on my training days it is higher carbs timed around my workouts.


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## Jodi (Oct 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Calmdwn *_
> In the last year i have lost 70lbs.  Last october i was 5' 11" 262lbs, and im now between 190-195lbs.  I know the reason i got that heavy was gluttonous eating of all the wrong foods.  But i know many people who ate as bad or worse then me, and they stayed fairly lean.  So that leads me to believe i hold on to fat more easily then the average person.  Thats why i chose the cycle i did.  I could be way off the mark thinking this way, but that is my reasoning.  Would you suggest i start with the hi, low, no?


You are not alone.  I hold fat more than the average as well.  Bad genetics which I'm forced to live with.  

I would try the Hi, low, no and then that gives you the opportunity to modify or tweak later and adjust the schedule as progress slows down.


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## Leslie (Oct 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> Since you asked about objections, I can't help but throw my 2 cents in................................
> 
> 
> ...



 I beleive he was referring to Jodi OR Leslie. I didnt see your name there. He is following Twin Peaks carb cycle NOT your way. So "your way" is different than the carb cycle, and since you have never done it, you cannot say what the no carb day is like. I train fine on no carb day, and even broke some personal records. The diet is written the way it is for a reason. I am getting really tired of reading your posts against the cycle or no carb days. There are many paths to success and YOUR way is not the only or best way for some to achieve it 

Sorry for the rant, but my last nerve has been hit.



Now back to the cycle, I think you should start with the standard cycle and then add in more no days. Even if its only after 2 weeks. Adding in more no days is a great tweak. Why waste it in the begining? Your body has never done carb cycling, so the standard cycle should be productive.Its up to you


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## J'Bo (Oct 10, 2003)

Les...people dont have to agree that carb cycling is good hun.
It doesnt mean that they are attacking you or your beliefs.


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## naturalguy (Oct 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Leslie *_
> I beleive he was referring to Jodi OR Leslie. I didnt see your name there. He is following Twin Peaks carb cycle NOT your way. So "your way" is different than the carb cycle, and since you have never done it, you cannot say what the no carb day is like. I train fine on no carb day, and even broke some personal records. The diet is written the way it is for a reason. I am getting really tired of reading your posts against the cycle or no carb days. There are many paths to success and YOUR way is not the only or best way for some to achieve it
> 
> Sorry for the rant, but my last nerve has been hit.



Very interesting perspective Leslie, IF you were paying attention, I was not getting involved in this post, I was reading it and this person ASKED if anyone had any objections so I thought that since this is America and and open forum that people are allowed to voice their opinions I thought I would share my experience and help this person.

And you are correct I have never done a no carb day, I have done extremely low carb days and I have worked with bodybuilders that have done no carb days and I know that for a natural athlete that it is catabolic and you cannot train at your best.

I find it funny that when I give my opinion that I am attacked however what you and Jodi say is law. Why is that? Is it because you have a "moderator" title under your name? What qualifies you as a moderator?


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## J'Bo (Oct 10, 2003)

i have done many no carb days before and i can tell you that they did work FOR ME...to get me lean, however i will not do them when i am trying to bulk again. JMO


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## ponyboy (Oct 10, 2003)

Actually if you read the diet even the no carb days actually have some carbs involved (1 cup of veggies for 3 of the meals).  Not that it's a lot...but there are some carbs involved (I think the diet recommends 50 calories per cup for fibrous veggies, meaning each serving is 12 grams...making 36 total). 

Just to be a smartass


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## Leslie (Oct 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> Very interesting perspective Leslie, IF you were paying attention, I was not getting involved in this post, I was reading it and this person ASKED if anyone had any objections so I thought that since this is America and and open forum that people are allowed to voice their opinions I thought I would share my experience and help this person.
> 
> 
> ...


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## hardasnails1973 (Oct 10, 2003)

THink people need to take step back and understand the main reason that we are here  "TO HELP MOTIVATE PEOPLE AND TO HELP THEM TO ACHIEVE THIER GOALS AND TO SHARE OUR EXPERINCES AND TO EDUCATE OUT SELFS AS WELL" NO PERSONS WAY IS EVER THE RIGHT WAY  ...  WHAT WORKS FOR ONE PERSON MAY NOT WORK FOR ANOTHER ...


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## hardasnails1973 (Oct 10, 2003)

Leslie,
Most likely I will see you in about 3 weeks : )


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## Leslie (Oct 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by hardasnails1973 *_
> Leslie,
> Most likely I will see you in about 3 weeks : )


You gonna come and kick my ass?

Really? What's up?


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## hardasnails1973 (Oct 10, 2003)

Gold's jersey


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## hardasnails1973 (Oct 10, 2003)

I won't be at my peak.  I'm 206 rigtht now in high 3% will be peaking for eastern USAS.  My conditoinng is going to be insane !! just got to get the final week thing down and i'll be good to go.  Going to do nabba in trenton next weekend for shits and giggles LOL


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## Leslie (Oct 10, 2003)

Glad to hear your progress is going well. what is the date of the contest?  Good luck
But I am not competing til Springtime


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## Calmdwn (Oct 10, 2003)

Ok, thanks for the help everyone!  Didnt realize there were people on the board from the Jersey area.  Guess i havent been paying attention.


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## hardasnails1973 (Oct 10, 2003)

Dear 
I would never lay a hand on a woman i'm not that type of guy.  but i am going to do some serious ass kicking other wise (on stage that is )


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## hardasnails1973 (Oct 10, 2003)

oct 25 lakewood (same time as olympia)


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## naturalguy (Oct 10, 2003)

This member obviously knows there are other options and has chosen to come to us for his advice because its a plan he would like to try. Instead of accepted this you tend to bash the plan and say its not the best option. Why can't you just accept when certain members wish to experiement with something that you don't agree with? These are exactly some reasons why people are NOT chosen to be a mod


Leslie,

         This is SUPPOSED to be an open, public forum. If you don't want other peoples opinions or ideas on here then make it a private website. You just ASSUMED that this person doesn't want to hear all their options.

        You need to go back a re-read my post. I did not bash TP's carb cycling program. In fact if you go back to TP's post when he announced his article came out, I actually said it was a good program, of course I gave my critique to it because I am not a sheep who just follows something because some one said it.

       It's funny but anytime I have a debate on here with people who follow the program and I ask them why they do certain things, the only answer I get back is "because TP said so". 

      Have you ever seen the Seinfeld episode with the soup nazi? I think your name should be changed to the "forum nazi".


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## nikegurl (Oct 10, 2003)

hold up.  wait a minute.

i don't believe calmdwn asked if people thought the plan was a good one to follow.  he had already decided to go with carb rotation as outlined in TP's article.

he was asking if his understanding and method of using the plan was on target - not if he should follow it or not.


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## Leslie (Oct 10, 2003)

Exactly the point I was trying to get across. Thanks NG, at least I know I am not going crazy


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## Jodi (Oct 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by naturalguy *_
> 
> Leslie,
> 
> ...


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## nikegurl (Oct 10, 2003)

yep - it does seem that naturalguy is on a mission in certain threads to provoke and start arguements when there's nothing to "fight" about.

it strikes me as very bad manners for a newbie to be so eager to characterize board "veterans" like leslie and joid who have devoted many hours to helping tons of members.

the idea that jodi and leslie think carb cycling is the "only way" is absurd...but of course you'd KNOW that if you bothered to read more and argue less.


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## naturalguy (Oct 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> yep - it does seem that naturalguy is on a mission in certain threads to provoke and start arguements when there's nothing to "fight" about.
> 
> it strikes me as very bad manners for a newbie to be so eager to characterize board "veterans" like leslie and joid who have devoted many hours to helping tons of members.
> ...




I am not looking to start arguments. I just don't agree with alot of things I see posted and I believe that everyone who comes on this board has a right to hear all their options. It's quite obvious that if I go against some of the "veterans"  that it is not acceptable to have my own opionon. It's there way or the highway. The very things they acuse me of, they are guilty of.

What happened to freedom of speech. I don't post anything offensive. I just offer people here my experience and things that I have studied and I even back up alot of my opinions with scientific studies. 

Oh and by the way as far as me being a "newbie", I have been in this game a long time, I competed in several bodybuilding shows, I have been a personal trainer for 7 years in my past job. Just because someone has 6000 posts talking about what they watched on tv last night doesn't make them more knowledgeable.


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## nikegurl (Oct 10, 2003)

here's the thing...you "sell it" like you're just a guy with a different viewpoint.   but in reality you seem to seek out threads where you can start problems. 

people are entitled to all opinions but you offer yours at times when no one is asking.  

and you're a newbie around HERE.  do you know how many different eating plans jodi and leslie have used?  do you know how many times they've told people that lots of methods will work if they stick with them etc etc.  no - you don't.  you're too new to form opinions about individuals here.

maybe it's your reading comprehension that's the problem.


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## _Aj (Oct 10, 2003)

Guys, Gals, come on this is getting to be way too off topic arguement rather than a discussion about Carb Cycling.

Although I do tend to agree with Leslie because I feel great with low to no carb day, and have also broke some PB. It actually when I injest carbs I get to lethargic, unmotivated, and tired from training.

Also Here is a question. I am planning on taking a week off from training. Should I do any high Carb days, or just do one when I get back.


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## Leslie (Oct 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by _Aj *_
> 
> 
> Also Here is a question. I am planning on taking a week off from training. Should I do any high Carb days, or just do one when I get back.



I would continue with the regular cycle, no,high,low.  If this makes you uncomfortable, substitue ONE high day with a low or a no carb day.


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## Twin Peak (Oct 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by _Aj *_
> Guys, Gals, come on this is getting to be way too off topic arguement rather than a discussion about Carb Cycling.
> 
> Although I do tend to agree with Leslie because I feel great with low to no carb day, and have also broke some PB. It actually when I injest carbs I get to lethargic, unmotivated, and tired from training.
> ...



You mean it works, even with these no carb days?  Who'd a thunk it! 

Yes, the diet can be used even while not training, as the high carb days are critical for total weekly caloric intake, to prevent hormonal shut-down, as well as to maintain sanity.

Enjoy your week off.


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## J'Bo (Oct 10, 2003)

"I am not looking to start arguments. I just don't agree with alot of things I see posted and I believe that everyone who comes on this board has a right to hear all their options. It's quite obvious that if I go against some of the "veterans"  that it is not acceptable to have my own opinion. It's there way or the highway. The very things they acuse me of, they are guilty of."

I say the same thing. Carb cycling isnt for everyone and so people should not be casted out for having different approaches or trying to help people with different ideas on how to help them achieve their goals.


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## Jodi (Oct 10, 2003)

Ummm JBo,  since when do I cast people out for not wanting to do carb cycling?  

You know I've done several plans and know of several others so I don't understand this comment.


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## derekisdman (Oct 10, 2003)

hmmm....I watched kill bill today!


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## J'Bo (Oct 10, 2003)

Jodi....i did not say that you casted people out hun. although how many people that you are helping out arent on carb cyling diets? and how many are you helping to find other diets to try other than cycling? i understand that carb cycling works for most people depending upon how you set it up. i would just like everyone to open up and teach what they preach that EVERYONE is different and some people WILL NEVER benefit from a carb cycle. 

I should have probably put this in a pm to you first and i am sorry but we were openly discussing it here. I think highly of everyone here i just hate to see when people (not only you jodi) arent opening up to new possibilities and types of people. Say for instance like that person asking about "bodybuilders" or what ever the hell they were talking about. Floor polishers? my point is that everyone that acts out in a harsh and negative way only means that they are hurting inside about something and so we should be patient and listen to what everyone says. This case also applys to what happened with Fire. Everyone has off times and days and humans NEED to forgive and understand why people are the way they are and do the things they do. 

K now i am really off topic. Just had to say that though.


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## nikegurl (Oct 10, 2003)

J'Bo - I think you're not seeing the same pattern that I see with naturalguy.  He seems to be making a real habit of confronting Jodi and sometimes Leslie for no real reason.

He is completely entitled to his opinions but in this particular thread no one was asking for his.  The question was about how to utilize the eating plan not IF.  

And neither Jodi nor Leslie have ever insisted that this plan is the "be all and end all" for everyone.  They both like it for many reasons but are open to lots of other eating plans as well.

I can vouch that I've changed my eating countless times and never stopped getting help from both ladies - with or without carb rotation.

not everyone's intentions are good.  i truly believe that naturalguy is NOT just someone with a different view entitled to express it.  we're all entitled to that.  it definitely seems like he looks for chances to express it and make personal attacks against Jodi - it's a real pattern.  this is the first time i've said anything but it's far from the first time it's happened


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## J'Bo (Oct 10, 2003)

well i havent seen it thats all i say. and like i said if someone is attacking someone it is most likely because they arent feeling good with them selves at the moment.


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## naturalguy (Oct 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by nikegurl *_
> J'Bo - I think you're not seeing the same pattern that I see with naturalguy.  He seems to be making a real habit of confronting Jodi and sometimes Leslie for no real reason.
> 
> He is completely entitled to his opinions but in this particular thread no one was asking for his.  The question was about how to utilize the eating plan not IF.
> ...



You do see me post alot after Jodi and that is because I don't agree with alot of things she suggests. We have been back and forth about insulin spikes after training  as well as the no carb thing. I simply put in my opinion so that others can have both views. I even back up alot of what I say with references. I have never made a personal attack on anyone here. If you go to the original question when I made my first post on this thread, the person asked if anyone had objections so I voiced mine. I also stated in my post that I would never do a no carb day. I never said EVERRYONE should not do a no carb day, I stated that for myself and Leslie attacked me for going against the grain. I am sorry, I am very passionate about this and I don't want to see anyone trying what I feel is less effective methods. If people reading don't agree with me then they don't have to follow however I feel everyone has the right to hear both sides. If they want to keep the discussion to themselves then Leslie and Jodi should have a private "carb cycling" chat room. Again this is supposed to be a public forum.


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## Jodi (Oct 10, 2003)

First of J'Bo........I'm sorry but you obviously don't see my posts.  I NEVER EVER tell anyone to use carb cycling.  I tell them to read the sticky at the top of the forum.  In the there I quoted many plans from low carb to carb cycling to moderate carbs.  Read them sometime and you will notice that I don't tell people to use the carb cycling.  People are using the carb cycling lately because of 2 reason 1. TP's new article and 2. Because they know it worked well for both Leslie and I.  

I can think of 4 people that I'm helping on the top of my head that are not doing carb cycling and have great results.  Sara, Rock, Skib, Iain, and I there are more but they PM me and I will keep their names quiet.

I'm not lashing out at you by any means here but obvisously you fail to see my posts helping people with several different diets and I'm positive many people will tell you that.

I think even NaturalGuy could even tell you that as he seems to read alot of my posts.


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## Jodi (Oct 10, 2003)

Now NaturalGuy, I know you and I have our difference and that is fine.  I welcome different ideas and even seen some of your suggestions that I would like to try at some point.  I'm not a nutritionist and I never claimed to be a know it all.  I feel I'm good with people, I help them, and most importantly I stick by them and follow through to make sure they are doing well.  There are several people that daily PM for advice and that I've been helping that don't even post often here in this forum.  To make a statement saying that my 6000+ post count is about TV...........where do you get off saying such a thing?  If you did a search with my username you would notice that the majority of my posts are devoted to helping others and not garbage.  I don't even have time to post for fun in Open Chat that often and the most garbage I post is in my on journal.  All my other posts are here in the Diet Forum helping and giving advice.  I don't claim to be the end all be all but I do know I help them.


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## _Aj (Oct 10, 2003)

Couple Questions,

Who here pratices Carb Cycly and what kind of results are you seeing. Is it possible to gain some LBM while shedding some BF. I know it comes to overall cal maintence. But sating someone is at maintence for the low carb and the no carb days and goes up pretty high in the High Cabs Days.


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## Jodi (Oct 10, 2003)

I do the carb cycling diet and I used this diet for 8 weeks to get to competition.  I lost approx. 4-5% Bodyfat in that time and seeing I only lost a few pounds I'm eager to say I gained some LBM while doing it.  I continue to use it for now as well.


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## J'Bo (Oct 10, 2003)

Your right Jodi i dont read many of your posts where people arent carb cycling...i should. Sorry for posting without reading. 

Back to the question noted above...i too have done carb cycling, or a form of it and i got lean QUICK...i have a fast metabolism and so i am finding that bulking up is hard for me to do with the no carb days and so i am doing a training and non training diet. I did gain some LBM while carb cycling although i tend to like to switch things up every year to see what works best for my body.


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## Mudge (Oct 11, 2003)

I may have days where I only have carbs in the AM (other than maybe 2g in a shake) but I dont carb cycle CKD style, just stick to low carbs and it works fine for my energy levels. Now if you call my cheat day on friday or saturday (pizza) a carb-up well then


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## Twin Peak (Oct 11, 2003)

I do not think I have ever told someone that they should Carb Cycle.  Ever.

Of course, I have never recommended any specific diet to anyone.  I even helped Leslie with two different diets, before she decided to Carb Cycle.

To state otherwise, is ludicrious.


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## _Aj (Oct 11, 2003)

Today was my first High Carb Day, and recently doing a CKD, I think that this diet is way better. First of all, the fruit, I love fruit and have denied my self that for way too long. I have actually controlled the urge to binge as I am looking forward to my next meal, but so far waiting the 1.5h to eat is no problem, as before I would sometimes continuesly eat for 4-6hrs and still not be satisfied untill I would be on the verge of explosion.

Although before I took in Carbs I had a little to much protein, but on the other hand I am making really good choices as far as foods go. Lots of corn, some tomatoes, onions oatmeal which is to be a huge problem controlling my intake is now under control. THe fruit of choice is apples and I even had a couple during my workout(don't know if it recommended, but energy and the pump I got, I love it and am going to continue following this method.)

Thanks for the diet as I think I found something to control my eating and finially lose all of the stubborn fat. I am going to do a mini bulk, using this diet and then will cut down to my desired goal.

Thanks TP, and I am really looking forward to your next article. 

A Question about the food choices though, is it limited to those or how do you consider what is acceptable and what is not as far a carbos go. 

Also Fish Oil. I take Cod Liver Oil, Pills are too expensive. How many teaspoons should I take to get 15g. And are you talking about 15g or the oil or of omega 3's in general.

Thanks,

 AJ.


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