# Biceps?



## jkarlos (Apr 26, 2009)

how do you train biceps to get it bigger?


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## Rookeek (Apr 26, 2009)

Chin ups, Barbell curls, Dumbbell curls, they also get a workout with barbell rows and pull ups..


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## Gazhole (Apr 26, 2009)

Pullups and Dumbell Rows, mostly. So long as you're eating a lot, that is.


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## Arnold (Apr 26, 2009)

jkarlos said:


> how do you train biceps to get it bigger?



for isolation I prefer preacher curls.


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## tatteredsaint (Apr 27, 2009)

I really like incline dumbell curls ,regular and reverse ez bar curls, n burn out with hammer curls


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## largepkg (Apr 27, 2009)

tatteredsaint said:


> I really like incline dumbell curls ,regular and reverse ez bar curls, n burn out with hammer curls



I agree with the inclines. It takes cheating out of the equation for the most part. Although I very rarely isolate the biceps anymore.


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## UFC rocks (Apr 27, 2009)

close grip chins, there like barbell curls but alot easlier on the wrists because unlike any type of curl were you hand is going towards the chest, with these its the chest going towards the hand, making it really easly on the wrist. 

plus your back gets worked too.


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## someguy1984 (Apr 27, 2009)

UFC rocks said:


> close grip chins, there like barbell curls but alot easlier on the wrists because unlike any type of curl were you hand is going towards the chest, with these its the chest going towards the hand, making it really easly on the wrist.
> 
> plus your back gets worked too.



I agree with this. I think CG chins are the way to go. Great for biceps and works many other muscles.


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## Bennuendo (Apr 27, 2009)

A lot of great exercises were suggested.. you may also want to check out Escalating Density Training (EDT) by Charles Staley.. It was originally designed to put inches on your biceps


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## blueboy75 (Apr 27, 2009)

supersets & 21's work well for me.


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## danzik17 (Apr 27, 2009)

I don't really bother working them directly.  They get worked plenty from chins and rows.  If I have an extra 10-20 minutes to blow at the gym, I may throw in 1-2 sets of DB curls for the hell of it but it's not essential at all.


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## Gazhole (Apr 28, 2009)

danzik17 said:


> I don't really bother working them directly.  They get worked plenty from chins and rows.  If I have an extra 10-20 minutes to blow at the gym, I may throw in 1-2 sets of DB curls for the hell of it but it's not essential at all.



I did some heavy curls the other day, i wont do them again for another month or so.

I know the pump means nothing, but i get a better pump from farmer's walks than all the curls in the world. I'd much rather do those.


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## Hench (Apr 28, 2009)

Gazhole said:


> I did some heavy curls the other day, i wont do them again for another month or so.
> 
> I know the pump means nothing, but i get a better pump from farmer's walks than all the curls in the world. I'd much rather do those.



+1

I dont know who wrote it or where its from, but a quote thats sticking out in my head is ''if you cant do at least 10 body weight pull ups, you have no business training arms directly''. Pretty good rule to follow IMO.


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## Gazhole (Apr 28, 2009)

Moondogg said:


> +1
> 
> I dont know who wrote it or where its from, but a quote thats sticking out in my head is ''if you cant do at least 10 body weight pull ups, you have no business training arms directly''. Pretty good rule to follow IMO.



I've never heard that before, but thats good!

The only use i can see for curls is strengthening the bicep tendons for strongman and stuff like that. Aside from that i think a large percentage of people are either misinformed or egocentric


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## ClosingTime (Apr 28, 2009)

Prince said:


> for isolation I prefer preacher curls.



I agree, preacher curls seem to work wonders for me.


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## Hench (Apr 28, 2009)

Gazhole said:


> I've never heard that before, but thats good!
> 
> The only use i can see for curls is strengthening the bicep tendons for strongman and stuff like that. Aside from that i think a large percentage of people are either misinformed or egocentric



A would guess a pretty even mixture of both.lol 

There was about 15 other guys in the gym today apart from me and my training partner. EVERY single one of them was training biceps. 

Suppose it shouldnt bother me though, I never have to wait for the squat rack and theres always and olympic bar available for doing deads, cleans, presses ect. Save me time I suppose.


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## largepkg (Apr 28, 2009)

Moondogg said:


> A would guess a pretty even mixture of both.lol
> 
> There was about 15 other guys in the gym today apart from me and my training partner. EVERY single one of them was training biceps.
> 
> Suppose it shouldnt bother me though, *I never have to wait for the squat rack *and theres always and olympic bar available for doing deads, cleans, presses ect. Save me time I suppose.



My gym has the same yoyo's doing bi's, accept most are taking up the damn rack and swinging 95lb cheat curls on the oly bar! 

A few weeks ago there was one of these yoyo's doing this and I just stood there staring at him. After two sets he asked me if I wanted to work in. I told him I wanted to use the rack for it's intended purpose not curls. He said "oh" and left.


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## Hench (Apr 28, 2009)

largepkg said:


> My gym has the same yoyo's doing bi's, accept most are taking up the damn rack and swinging 95lb cheat curls on the oly bar!
> 
> A few weeks ago there was one of these yoyo's doing this and I just stood there staring at him. After two sets he asked me if I wanted to work in. I told him I wanted to use the rack for it's intended purpose not curls. He said "oh" and left.



Haha, I bet he did, your a big fucker!

My gym has two seperate rooms, with the weights section being about 100 yards from the cardio room, helps to stop people just wandering in to get in the way. It also means that no women come into the weight room, which is a bad thing. Though not if they are only there to get in my way doing bicep curls on a fucking bosu ball.


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## largepkg (Apr 28, 2009)

Moondogg said:


> *Haha, I bet he did, your a big fucker*!
> 
> My gym has two seperate rooms, with the weights section being about 100 yards from the cardio room, helps to stop people just wandering in to get in the way. It also means that no women come into the weight room, which is a bad thing. Though not if they are only there to get in my way doing bicep curls on a fucking bosu ball.



I don't like to be "that guy", if you know what I mean. I'm a very non confrontational guy but after years of this I had to do it. 

I just don't get it. My gym has easy bars that are pre weighted up to 140lbs and they just sit there while these douche bags use the rack?!?


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## T_man (Apr 28, 2009)

I know this is going to sound silly.

But stop doing isolation is what I did.

On my back days I did just 1 set of iso for biceps, sometimes none, but did alot of close grip chinups and i've gotten many stretch marks since i cut the iso crap, or bicep/arm days. seriously you're probably overtraining with iso ontop of the usual back workout.

If you think about it it kinda makes sense because if your back is getting fried then more often than not your biceps will be hit just as hard if not harder cos they're a smaller muscle.


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## Hench (Apr 28, 2009)

T_man said:


> I know this is going to sound silly.
> 
> But stop doing isolation is what I did.
> 
> ...



Well said.


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## Gazhole (Apr 28, 2009)

Wait back up, they were CHEAT curling 95lbs?

If you're going to cheat at least go heavy, jesus.

Curls in the squat rack are the cardinal gym sin.


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## Bennuendo (Apr 28, 2009)

Moondogg said:


> +1
> 
> I dont know who wrote it or where its from, but a quote thats sticking out in my head is ''if you cant do at least 10 body weight pull ups, you have no business training arms directly''. Pretty good rule to follow IMO.



Hmm that may not be a good rule for everyone.. sure it takes arm strength to do pull ups but you can't forget that it works your lats pretty directly.. and there are some really strong guys that are very heavy that wouldn't be able to do too many pull ups.


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## Hench (Apr 28, 2009)

Bennuendo said:


> Hmm that may not be a good rule for everyone.. sure it takes arm strength to do pull ups but you can't forget that it works your lats pretty directly.. and there are some really strong guys that are very heavy that wouldn't be able to do too many pull ups.



Heavy as in fat, not heavy as in muscular. Big lean guys can do plenty of pull ups. Its not that direct arm training doesnt work, its just that your time would be better spent doing compounds movements. If you notice that your arms are lagging then maybe throw in some isolation work, but it should not be a priority.


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## Bennuendo (Apr 28, 2009)

Moondogg said:


> Heavy as in fat, not heavy as in muscular. Big lean guys can do plenty of pull ups. Its not that direct arm training doesnt work, its just that your time would be better spent doing compounds movements. If you notice that your arms are lagging then maybe throw in some isolation work, but it should not be a priority.



Hmm not at always fat.. they could just have massive legs weighing them down..  like I do.

But compound movements are definitely the way to go, not disagreeing with that.. just thought the "rule" might have been faulty with what it was trying to say.

I find that I don't get as far with isolation work as I do with compound movements.. and the compound movements just feel way more natural.


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## blueboy75 (Apr 28, 2009)

"curls get the girls!" silly comment alot of football players use in Oz.

I agree biceps seem to be by far the most commonly trained muscle in my gym.  

People look at me doing deadlifts with that wtf look.


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## largepkg (Apr 28, 2009)

Gazhole said:


> Wait back up, they were CHEAT curling 95lbs?
> 
> If you're going to cheat at least go heavy, jesus.
> 
> Curls in the squat rack are the cardinal gym sin.



Stop encouraging them!

I would love to see some of these guys do proper curls with 95lbs! While it's not very impressive, done with proper form most couldn't squeeze more than a couple reps if any.


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## Bennuendo (Apr 28, 2009)

largepkg said:


> Stop encouraging them!
> 
> I would love to see some of these guys do proper curls with 95lbs! While it's not very impressive, done with proper form most couldn't squeeze more than a couple reps if any.



95lbs total or each arm? haha


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## Gazhole (Apr 29, 2009)

largepkg said:


> Stop encouraging them!
> 
> I would love to see some of these guys do proper curls with 95lbs! While it's not very impressive, done with proper form most couldn't squeeze more than a couple reps if any.



 i wouldn't dream of encouraging this sort of behaviour!

Curls are silly enough, let alone cheat curls. Let ALONE cheat curls in a rack!? Just blows my mind. Its 95lbs, why do they need a rack? Can't they lift it from the floor?


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## largepkg (Apr 29, 2009)

Gazhole said:


> i wouldn't dream of encouraging this sort of behaviour!
> 
> Curls are silly enough, let alone cheat curls. Let ALONE cheat curls in a rack!? Just blows my mind. Its 95lbs, why do they need a rack? Can't they lift it from the floor?



Honestly, I think that's the problem. These idiots are so lazy they even set the pins at waist height so they don't have to bend over to pick it up.


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## Gazhole (Apr 29, 2009)

Being lazy in the gym is the biggest contradiction ever. These people are idiots.


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## TitanUnleashed (Apr 29, 2009)

Hit your outer biceps with hammer curls to let your arms do the talkin in a shirt. My gym has this funny bar that allows a 2 handed hammer curl. Any idea what it is called? I find this a hell lot more effective than a single handed hammer curl


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## bigdavetom (May 17, 2010)

tri bar for tricepsticons too lol


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## cheappinz (May 18, 2010)

genetics is definitely going to be part of it...exercise will only get the muscle so big, then you're maxed out.  the fascia surrounding the muscle tissue is like a constricting balloon limiting any further growth.


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## dsc123 (May 19, 2010)

chin ups, 21s with barbell, hammer curls and concentration curls works well for me


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## ectomorph141 (May 19, 2010)

As mentioned above, working back works your biceps a lot more.  Pull ups, deadlifts smoke my biceps like crazy. By the time I start doing biceps after back, my biceps want to die.  


tatteredsaint said:


> I really like incline dumbell curls ,regular and reverse ez bar curls, n burn out with hammer curls


I also like the incline dumbell curls a lot.  I switch it up each week by starting with preacher curls then end with either concentration curls, incline curls, or hammer curls.  However I notice that when I do incline dubell curls my hands get numb and tingle toward the end of the workout.


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## cxpharm (May 24, 2010)

Here's what works for me, personally.

5X5 Ez bar curl (NOT PREACHER)

3X10 Ez bar curl (NOT PREACHER)

Preacher curls 5x5

and of course I do some dumbell work doing 5x5 and 3x10


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## N_I_C_K (May 25, 2010)

Farmers walks, pull ups, chin ups, and rows are good. If you want to some curls I'd recommend doing seated DB hammer curls slowly or preacher curls. I'd do them last though and not to much weight. People on this site don't seem to like curls, I personally like them and I don't think that it'll hurt to do them ya know? So why not.

I mean if your biceps are totally drained after your workout then obviously don't do the curls. If they are pretty tired I'd stay away from them.


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## Phineas (May 25, 2010)

cxpharm said:


> Here's what works for me, personally.
> 
> 5X5 Ez bar curl (NOT PREACHER)
> 
> ...


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## Phineas (May 25, 2010)

N_I_C_K said:


> Farmers walks, pull ups, chin ups, and rows are good. If you want to some curls I'd recommend doing seated DB hammer curls slowly or preacher curls. I'd do them last though and not to much weight. People on this site don't seem to like curls, I personally like them and I don't think that it'll hurt to do them ya know? So why not.
> 
> I mean if your biceps are totally drained after your workout then obviously don't do the curls. If they are pretty tired I'd stay away from them.



It's not that we don't "like" curls, it's that most people misuse isolation movements. Most people seem to think (I used to be one of them) that there's a muscle there and so they need to do a bunch of exercises specifically for that muscle for it to grow. But, the thing is the biceps are one of many assisting muscles; it's secondary to the larger muscle it supports primarily -- the lats (the largest muscle in the upper body) -- along with other assisting muscles it works in conjunction with.

People tend to put together half-assed programs with the majority of lifts being isolation, simply because they don't understand the muscular system. It is a system, after all. Isolating parts breaks the flow, as is inefficient. You elicit very few growth hormones when you train a small muscle like the biceps. I mean really, look at your quads, and then look at your biceps. I think it's hilarious that men are so obsessed with biceps when they're one of the smallest of the visible muscles!!! Even the triceps are much bigger! What the hell is it about biceps??? I wish built legs and backs was deemed sexy by the majority because that shows dedication and persistence with extremely physically/emotionally taxing lifts like squats, deadlifts, and cleans. Why the fuck do women care so much about a muscle that can be developed easily from doing just a shitload of the simplest movement? 

Isolation has its time and place, and that's esthetique refinement and/or strength augmenting. If after focussing primarily or exclusively on compounds and feel your biceps are lagging in the looks department OR if your biceps aren't strong enough to keep up with your lats on rows, etc, then by all means use them STRATEGICALLY. 

Lifters can see much better results with bigger movements. Isolation movements shouldn't form programs.

Bodybuilding is often compared to art sculpting. Think of programs like this: basic compound lifts places the foundation clay; more complicated periodization refines the compounds more strategically so that the sculpture can take clear form and shape; isolation movements is the final stage where the sculpture does the very fine touch-ups with the mm-thin needles and picks. Get what I'm saying?

That was from a pure BB'ing standpoint. Performance-wise it's different, but clearly this thread is centered on the appearance of the biceps.


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## Phineas (May 25, 2010)

Gazhole said:


> i wouldn't dream of encouraging this sort of behaviour!
> 
> Curls are silly enough, let alone cheat curls. Let ALONE cheat curls in a rack!? Just blows my mind. Its 95lbs, why do they need a rack? Can't they lift it from the floor?



Actually, there is one more thing worse. 

This is the absolute lowest lifeform in North American gyms...

DRUM ROLL PLEASE!!!!!





Two guys in tapout shirts and jeans BB cheat curling in the squat rack with the other friend "spotting" the one lifting and helping him lift from about 1/3 up while screaming "ALL YOU BRO, ALL YOU!!!" and then they put the bar down and walk around like their dicks are made of gold.


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## fredy196 (May 25, 2010)

my gym is just as laim, was doing my weekly squats,i had 2 groups of guys come to me asking how long id be, i said join in no probs. no thanks was the reply were doing curls,needless to say i took my time but guess what they sat down and waited..f-ing lmoes.


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## juggernaut (May 25, 2010)

Gazhole said:


> Pullups and Dumbell Rows, mostly. So long as you're eating a lot, that is.


V-Bar bent-over rows as well.


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## Phineas (May 25, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> V-Bar bent-over rows as well.



I'll second that.


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## juggernaut (May 26, 2010)

fredy196 said:


> my gym is just as laim, was doing my weekly squats,i had 2 groups of guys come to me asking how long id be, i said join in no probs. no thanks was the reply were doing curls,needless to say i took my time but guess what they sat down and waited..f-ing lmoes.


I fucking hate that. I would've done extra sets just to be a ballbuster.


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## N_I_C_K (May 26, 2010)

Phineas said:


> Two guys in tapout shirts and jeans BB cheat curling in the squat rack with the other friend "spotting" the one lifting and helping him lift from about 1/3 up while screaming "ALL YOU BRO, ALL YOU!!!" and then they put the bar down and walk around like their dicks are made of gold.






It's fuckin' hysterical, yet 100% true. Except the jeans. At my gym I don't really see people in jeans if they're working out.


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## Phineas (May 26, 2010)

N_I_C_K said:


> It's fuckin' hysterical, yet 100% true. Except the jeans. At my gym I don't really see people in jeans if they're working out.



Ya, we get guys in tight designer jeans, bright white trendy shoes, fohawks, you name it. They walk around randomly using pussy machines with terrible form in low weight. I love deadlifting, squatting, and cleaning when they're around. They just don't understand what the hell is going on.


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## N_I_C_K (May 27, 2010)

Phineas said:


> Ya, we get guys in tight designer jeans, bright white trendy shoes, fohawks, you name it. They walk around randomly using pussy machines with terrible form in low weight. I love deadlifting, squatting, and cleaning when they're around. They just don't understand what the hell is going on.



I actually saw a guy like that yesterday......Purple shirt, tight jeans, shinny white shoes, and a fohawk.....Weird. Ironically enough, he was benching and only going about half-way down.


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## Phineas (May 27, 2010)

N_I_C_K said:


> I actually saw a guy like that yesterday......Purple shirt, tight jeans, shinny white shoes, and a fohawk.....Weird. Ironically enough, he was benching and only going about half-way down.



How's the ironic? Sounds right to me.


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## N_I_C_K (May 27, 2010)

Phineas said:


> How's the ironic? Sounds right to me.



Not ironic that he was dressed like a tool and working out like one. Ironic because until reading that post I haven't seen a guy like that at my gym. When I do read it I go to the gym and boom. You described the guy like you could see the future.


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## Phineas (May 27, 2010)

N_I_C_K said:


> Not ironic that he was dressed like a tool and working out like one. Ironic because until reading that post I haven't seen a guy like that at my gym. When I do read it I go to the gym and boom. You described the guy like you could see the future.



Ah, gotcha.

Not to be a dork with semantics here, but I'd say that's a coincidence, not irony.

Irony would be like an ambulance speeding to an emergency and hitting a pedestrian along the way....irony.

A porn star unable to get it up....irony.

Def Leppard's drummer lost his arm....irony.


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## juggernaut (May 27, 2010)

yeah...you're a dork.


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## bigdavetom (May 27, 2010)

im thinking of stopping the bb curls and hammer curls and just sticking with the pullups n rows and the big moves


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## Phineas (May 27, 2010)

juggernaut said:


> yeah...you're a dork.



We all spend a portion of our free time bitching at teenagers on the internet to stop arm curling so much. 

I think we're all kind of dorky.


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## Zaphod (May 27, 2010)

Loads of tools at my gym just doing curls and benching in terrible form.  A lot of them also like the leg press, loading it up as heavy as they can for a few 1 inch rom reps then banging it down on the stops when they're done.  

By no means am I a big guy, getting back into lifting at 40 after 15 years off.  But there's guys there, if you want to call them that, who would be crushed under the modest weight I can squat.  

But like most everybody has said already, isolation movements for biceps are nearly pointless.  My arms are dead after a heavy back day.


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## DiGiTaL (May 27, 2010)

Most guys in my gym have this type of training split

Monday: Chest
Tuesday, Shoulders and Biceps
Wed: Triceps
Thurs: Chest
Friday: Shoulders and Biceps
Sat: Triceps


I've gotten insults so many times for just telling people to set a proper routine and arms arent big deal. Honest to god in the past month I've had so many people compliment my fast-growing biceps and my response is "I only train them once a week" and they go "then your juicing".

If I see someone using the squat rack for bicep curling, I dont care if he's a 300 pound mother fucker I'm telling him to move away.


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## JOSEF RAKICH (May 28, 2010)

I have trined biceps many different ways, i use to train biceps with back but now i have dedicated an entire day to biceps (serious) with core training also. Since biceps are my favourite muscle group i wanted to bring them up alot. I have been training them at high volume roughly 20 sets, completly beating them up each time i train them.

Now my biceps always experience DOMS every week, i have deffently noticed gains training my biceps this way, i also do the same for triceps.


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## JOSEF RAKICH (May 28, 2010)

DiGiTaL said:


> Most guys in my gym have this type of training split
> 
> Monday: Chest
> Tuesday, Shoulders and Biceps
> ...


 
I curl in the squat rack, I also do 20 sets for biceps.


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## bigdavetom (May 28, 2010)

thats some sets


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## jmorrison (May 28, 2010)

Phineas said:


> fohawks, you name it.



I was soo going to rep you until that.  Now you made me cry.  Don't hate me because I am beautiful.

j "feaux-hawk" morrison


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## suprfast (May 28, 2010)

Phineas said:


> Ya, we get guys in tight designer jeans, bright white trendy shoes, fohawks, you name it. They walk around randomly using pussy machines with terrible form in low weight. I love deadlifting, squatting, and cleaning when they're around. They just don't understand what the hell is going on.



Oh man, I did this the other day.  I wanted to workout chest because I feel it was neglected.  Sure enough I get in and 4 guys are taking turns pushing 135 on the flat bench.  Then they took turns pushing 225(and I don't mean pushing) no more than 4 inches down and right back up.  Not sure what that works out.  I decided it was leg day.  5 x 5 335 squat and 8 x 810lbs on leg press.


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## flexbob (May 29, 2010)

Hey! I'm not asking to get flamed here but i've been reading the earlier posts and i had to look up cheat curling (not familiar with the term) and i got this definition:

www dot exercisegoals dot com/cheat-curls.html (sorry, not allowed to post links)



> _Cheat curls develop extra mass and increase power in the biceps._



is there any truth to this? should cheat curls be a regular exercise for biceps?


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## bigdavetom (May 29, 2010)

lol only way to lift heavy really lol


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## GregW (May 29, 2010)

Preacer curls ftw!!!


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## unclem (May 31, 2010)

i blow out my biceps by doing giant sets followed by 21s then do strict form, strict form with 85 lbs straight bar, not one swing. only train bis once a week with tris and forearms but bigger muscle gets trained first in day. imo


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## MDR (Jun 1, 2010)

Isolation is out of vogue these days, but the best exercises for the isolation of the biceps in my opinion are standing barbell curls, seated dumbbell curls, concentration curls and preacher curls.  Hammer curls are also useful.  At some point in your training you'll probably try all of the above at one time or another.  Many exercises work the biceps along with other muscles.  People generally favor compound movements that work multiple muscle groups because they are more efficient and often far more effective in building overall strength and power.


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## Gazhole (Jun 1, 2010)

flexbob said:


> is there any truth to this? should cheat curls be a regular exercise for biceps?



*Cheating* "violating accepted standards or rules".

Cheating to get the bar up uses momentum rather than muscular  contraction of the bicep. To work the bicep and make it grow it must contract.

What you are performing in a cheat curl isn't a curl, but some other exercise used by most people for the purpose of adding more weight to the bar or performing more reps.

In short - much like reducing ROM, using sloppy form, or relying on a spotter, cheating is a form of exercise for the ego rather than the muscles. 

And for the record, it works great - the people i see cheating in the gym have giant egos.

Just use strict form on rows, pullups, and curls and you'll see results.


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## bigdavetom (Jun 1, 2010)

Gazhole said:


> *Cheating* "violating accepted standards or rules".
> 
> Cheating to get the bar up uses momentum rather than muscular contraction of the bicep. To work the bicep and make it grow it must contract.
> 
> ...


 

ezbar i found stops the swing can grip it better


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## MDR (Jun 1, 2010)

Cheating is a very advanced technique-not needed for most lifters.  It does have a place for lifters who are at or near their physical limits.  Unless you already have 20 inch arms, I wouldn't worry too much about cheat curls.


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## bigdavetom (Jun 1, 2010)

YouTube - 125kg bicep curl TEAR

a reason not to go too heavy n cheat curl


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## DiGiTaL (Jun 2, 2010)

bigdavetom said:


> YouTube - 125kg bicep curl TEAR
> 
> a reason not to go too heavy n cheat curl



WOW at that video. Crazy people...


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## Phineas (Jun 2, 2010)

MDR said:


> Cheating is a very advanced technique-not needed for most lifters.  It does have a place for lifters who are at or near their physical limits.  Unless you already have 20 inch arms, I wouldn't worry too much about cheat curls.



Cheating has no place in the gym.

If your rationale for cheat curls is to further work the already exhausted biceps on a weight they can no logner lift strictly then why not just lower the weight and keep strict form? Not only will this benefit strength and muscle development better than using half-ass momentum movements but it won't put you at risk for injury like cheat curls can.


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