# Back width



## darren m (Apr 4, 2008)

whats the best excercise's for a wide back , i know you,ll say chins , but .
A. theres no chining bar at this gym .B. i struggle to do them any way .

we've got a pull down machine , but i can never get my back pumped or to ache afterwards , i think i must be doing something wrong .

thanks


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## Ben (Apr 4, 2008)

Try wide grip pulldowns, and close grip pulldowns with the V bar, T bar rows, and cable rows.
I have had good results doing these. Go heavy and try doing 6-8 reps with good form.


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## muscleshock (Apr 4, 2008)

*chins replacement*

V-Bar pulldowns work for me. Try to do it with no weight. Experiment with the motion until you feel it in your outer lats. Once you find the right motion load the wight and rock 'n roll! It worked for me. I was doing wide grip pulldowns (before I started doing chins), and didn't feel it in my lats. After I replaced regular bar with v-bar and wide grip with narrow parallel I started to feel contraction in my outer lats. I kept my torso at 90 degrees to the floor and puled the bar as low as I could, near plexus. Once I got the right move I loaded weight and started doing it. Next day I felt my lats hurting. I knew I got it right this time. But everyone is different.


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## nartic (Apr 4, 2008)

I get a great pump doing a sets of 8-10 an what I do is super set pull ups close an wide grip with close an wide grip pull downs. its like doing a 40 rep set. you will feel it in the morning.


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## Gazhole (Apr 4, 2008)

Pump and ache are not indicative of a good workout. Do a range of back exercises (rows, pulldowns, pullups...etc etc) as well as keeping a balance of all other movement types, eat well, and mass will come with PERSISTANCE.

Theres no magic exercise.

Keep progressing, keep periodizing, and itll improve. Instead of looking at exercises, why not look at what else you could change - rep ranges, rest intervals, program design...


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## Scarface30 (Apr 4, 2008)

like a buddy of mine told me "if you want a back like a barn door, you'll have to eat like a horse"


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## biggfly (Apr 4, 2008)

Scarface30 said:


> like a buddy of mine told me "if you want a back like a barn door, you'll have to eat like a horse"



I like that one...


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## Ronin_TS (Apr 5, 2008)

bent-over rows , reverse grip lat pulldown


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## darren m (Apr 5, 2008)

Thanks people -- today i trained back with the V bar close grip , it seemed to hit more inner back/trap area .
the other i tried was reverse grip lat pulldowns and they felt great , can really feel it in my outer lats now .
Also did the wide overhand pulldowns but lighter weight than usuall , normaly i aim for a 100kg on this but find a better feel with half the weight and stricter form .

anyone think of any more that have not been mentioned?

what do you think of one arm dumbell row and barbell and T bar row for width or are they just for thickness?

Daz


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## Metallibanger (Apr 5, 2008)

Of all the exercises mentioned above only wide grip pulldowns are good for width


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## Mudge (Apr 5, 2008)

I find rows take care of almost all of my width and thickness, and deadlifts for thick erectors.


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## AKIRA (Apr 5, 2008)

I honestly have never noticed how "thick" my back is.  However, my back is fucking awesome.  Its prolly the only feature besides my forearms I really have pride in.  

Cant really say what Ive done to get here, but Ive done pullups or deadlifts in a common way that most people can identify immediately for years.  Contrarily, I have done rows in a shit load of various ways.

Double edged sword there... Was it years of using something that always worked for the first half of the workout or was it the constant changes done for the other half ?


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## Built (Apr 5, 2008)

Ben said:


> Try wide grip pulldowns, and close grip pulldowns with the V bar, T bar rows, and cable rows.
> I have had good results doing these. Go heavy and try doing 6-8 reps with good form.





muscleshock said:


> V-Bar pulldowns work for me. Try to do it with no weight. Experiment with the motion until you feel it in your outer lats. Once you find the right motion load the wight and rock 'n roll! It worked for me. I was doing wide grip pulldowns (before I started doing chins), and didn't feel it in my lats. After I replaced regular bar with v-bar and wide grip with narrow parallel I started to feel contraction in my outer lats. I kept my torso at 90 degrees to the floor and puled the bar as low as I could, near plexus. Once I got the right move I loaded weight and started doing it. Next day I felt my lats hurting. I knew I got it right this time. But everyone is different.





darren m said:


> Thanks people -- today i trained back with the V bar close grip , it seemed to hit more inner back/trap area .
> the other i tried was reverse grip lat pulldowns and they felt great , can really feel it in my outer lats now .
> Also did the wide overhand pulldowns but lighter weight than usuall , normaly i aim for a 100kg on this but find a better feel with half the weight and stricter form .
> 
> ...





Metallibanger said:


> Of all the exercises mentioned above only wide grip pulldowns are good for width



First up - no chinup bar = no problem. Set the smith or squat rack high enough that you can get a full ROM at the bottom, fully extended, with your knees bent. Do shoulder width or narrower over or underhand there. If this is easy, weight a dipping belt and do them there - self-assist up with the toes if you need to, and do the negatives slow and with as little self-assistance as possible.

Second - so many people think wide grip builds width - when in fact a grip wider than shoulder takes the stress OFF the lat and places it ON the rotator cuff. This is NOT good. Not only does it risk damaging the rotator cuff, it severely limits your potential for lat growth. 

The problem is that you can't go wide and get a full ROM on both sides at once. So the rotator cuff gets a lot of abuse as you fight your way into this unnatural position. 

Here's the solution: Do lat pull downs, but do them ONE ARM AT A TIME. Use the stirrup attachment, reach all the way up, pull right down to your side, elbow tight to your body.

Repeat for the other side. Do these after the weighted negative chins and watch your taper grow!


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## Gazhole (Apr 6, 2008)

AKIRA said:


> I honestly have never noticed how "thick" my back is.  However, my back is fucking awesome.  Its prolly the only feature besides my forearms I really have pride in.
> 
> Cant really say what Ive done to get here, but Ive done pullups or deadlifts in a common way that most people can identify immediately for years.  Contrarily, I have done rows in a shit load of various ways.
> 
> Double edged sword there... Was it years of using something that always worked for the first half of the workout or was it the constant changes done for the other half ?



Good advice.

Dont try and come up with fancy complicated ways to add width to xyz quadrant of the back, or experiment with exotic exercises, just TRAIN the damned thing with big movements and eat.


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## darren m (Apr 6, 2008)

one arm pulldowns -- like it will give it a go next time .

any one do pulldowns behind the neck -- where on the back is that suppose to hit .

thanks


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## Gazhole (Apr 6, 2008)

darren m said:


> one arm pulldowns -- like it will give it a go next time .
> 
> any one do pulldowns behind the neck -- where on the back is that suppose to hit .
> 
> thanks



Dont do any movement behind the neck. It pushes the shoulders back into a position where they are prone to injury.


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## Built (Apr 6, 2008)

I'm not a fan of BTN either. No particular benefit. 
Try close parallel grip sometime - those are awesome! Another one is to do heavy self-assisted chins as I described above. Belt up a weight that's just too heavy to chin, or that you can only chin a few times, and rep out the negatives. These you will feel the next day, I assure you!


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## danzik17 (Apr 6, 2008)

Negative chins sound like a pretty good idea, I'll have to give that a shot sometime.


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## Built (Apr 6, 2008)

They're very effective. It's a pity you can't set opposite positive and negative on something like a gravitron. Meh - this works better, and renders the Smith machine useful for something other than as a towel rack!


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## GoLdeN M 07 (Apr 8, 2008)

definately i would say pullovers. Best exercise for getting thick and wide.


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## Gazhole (Apr 8, 2008)

Built said:


> They're very effective. It's a pity you can't set opposite positive and negative on something like a gravitron. Meh - this works better, and renders the Smith machine useful for something other than as a towel rack!



I do supine rows on the smith, so thats three things, haha.

And yeah, neg pullups are fun. Neg anything is fun, to be honest.


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## AKIRA (Apr 8, 2008)

Neg anything hurts like hell, dont forget!


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## Gazhole (Apr 9, 2008)

AKIRA said:


> Neg anything hurts like hell, dont forget!



There is that, too, lol.


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## Phineas (Oct 20, 2009)

Built said:


> Second - so many people think wide grip builds width - when in fact a grip wider than shoulder takes the stress OFF the lat and places it ON the rotator cuff. This is NOT good. Not only does it risk damaging the rotator cuff, it severely limits your potential for lat growth.



Would this apply to pullups, as well? I perform pullups with about 1.5-2 shoulder width and it feels like a fantastic lat workout. Shoulder width seems too narrow and awkward, like it would be more of a general arm/forearm exercise than the lats.


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## Phineas (Oct 20, 2009)

wow, didn't notice how much of a bump that was....sorry if I get flamed for this, but I wanted info on back width and I searched and this looked like the right thread for me.


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## suprfast (Oct 20, 2009)

Dont know if this is the width, but ever since i started doing builts baby got back, hang cleans in particular, i have noticed a huge difference in my back.  

Built, question on the chin ups.  How wide should arms be.  I use the end of the handles that came with my powertec rack which for me is roughly equivalent to just putting my arms up(shoulder to elbow horizontal and elbow to hands vertical, then maybe two inches more outward, OR similar to a field goal post and i was the skinny pole going into the ground)


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