# Masteron?



## Ace5high (Jul 4, 2011)

Id really like to add something I haven't tried to my cycle and Im thinking thats going to be Masteron. Im only looking for lean mass no bulking and dont want to do Tren just yet.

Im wondering if I should do Mast Enth or Mast Prop. Im leaning towered the enth as it will pair well with my test c. Any suggestions from the Masteron fans out there?


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## TGB1987 (Jul 4, 2011)

Mast is a great AAS to add to the end of a cycle to harden up.  I prefer using masteron prop.  I usually inject eod which would be 3 or 4 times per week.  I run 200-400mgs per week.  Usually 100mgs each inject.  You should throw in some Winny with it.  for a four week run at the end.  That is a great cut cycle.  I prefer the prop ester because it is stronger per mg and it kicks in and leaves the body much faster.  Winny can be injected with it eod at 50-100mgs each time.  This will provide some serious hardness.  Be careful which water based Winny you use though.  Water based steroids are prone to bacteria.  Only one I will use is Asia Pharma or British Dragon.  WP has some great deals on Winny that are great for the quality you recieve.  The AP winny isn't any more painful than injection Test from most UGLs.  Even better than some.  There was hardly any pain at all.  Enjoy whatever you choose.


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## Ace5high (Jul 5, 2011)

Thanks! Sounds just like what im looking to do, Ill check it out...


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## XYZ (Jul 5, 2011)

How fat are you right now, because unless you're sub 8-6% masteron will do nothing at all.  You know you're not going to really gain anything off of running masteron, correct?  

It sounds like you want to add something just to add something.  Waht are your goals?


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## GMO (Jul 5, 2011)

CT said:


> How fat are you right now, because unless you're sub 8-6% masteron will do nothing at all. You know you're not going to really gain anything off of running masteron, correct?
> 
> It sounds like you want to add something just to add something. Waht are your goals?


 

This^^^

Masteron is a good hardener, but as CT said, you have to be at a very low BF% to yield ideal results.  If you are looking for lean mass gains, there are much better options out there.  

What are your stats?  

Height/Weight/BF%/AAS history/Cycle History?

And what are your goals for this cycle?  

Without this info, we cannot assist you properly.


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## UA_Iron (Jul 5, 2011)

Everyone is so one-dimensional with their idea of how masteron should be used.

You dont need to be under any certain amount of bf to use masteron or to reap benefits. I've said this before, and I'll say it again - it works well to combat progestin sides much like winny does minus the joint pain that will start to affect you a few weeks out. Works well as an anti-e as well for high doses of test. Keeps you dry when you run it with aromatizing AAS, keeps you full when you're dieting etc


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## BigBird (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm running Mast Prop currently at 100-150mg EOD and it's working wonderfully.  My BF is a little high.  That is, in the 10-12 % range but the body recomp phase is amazing.  I could not be making the physique changes I'm making now if I wasn't using Mast Prop.  I'm actually running it with Test Cyp which I pin E4D at 250mg and Winstrol at 70-80mg ED.  I've used Winstrol and Test several tims in past and got nowhere near the results I am now with the Mast factored in.  

This is my first time using Mast and it is my favorite aas.  I would also recommned using the Mast Prop as opposed to the enathate ester as it is stronger mg per mg.  It feels great and if you're in half way decent shape with a responsible workout and diet regiment, you're in for one hell of an enjoyable ride.  It's doing everything I have read it could do.


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## XYZ (Jul 5, 2011)

UA_Iron said:


> Everyone is so one-dimensional with their idea of how masteron should be used.
> 
> Not really, I'm speaking from experience.  I personally believe it works BEST when below a certain BF.  Why not use something different that will work better?
> 
> ...


 
To my knowledge the only thing that really keeps you "dry" when dieting is an A/I, and carbs will keep you full not masteron.

Just my opinion, if it works for you.......great but I think you might be in the minority.  Masteron is a finishing product.  If you can show me one piece of literature that claims muscle growth or strength gains I would love to read it.


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## UA_Iron (Jul 5, 2011)

CT said:
			
		

> Not really, I'm speaking from experience.  I  personally believe it works BEST when below a certain BF.  Why not use  something different that will work better?



Actually this could be used as an argument for all steroids. They all work better when you're leaner. I agree that you will see the hardening affects much better when you're leaner and using masteron, but that isn't the only reason its used precontest.



			
				CT said:
			
		

> Masteron was never intended for that, a dopamine  antagonist is what should be used because it is specifically designed  for the issue of progestin gyno, not masteron.



Masteron was actually developed for women for breast cancer treatment. So whichever way we males use it is not for its intended purpose. 

Masteron E at 750-1000mg/week stacked with Deca at around 600mg/week is a  potent tool. Why use dopamine antagonist when the sides they create imo  are terrible? Prami sides are horrible, no sleep, dreaming in cartoons  bleh. Dostinex has been proven to cause heart valve problems.  Bromocriptine makes you feel off axis and like you have a head cold. 



CT said:


> To my knowledge the only thing that really keeps you "dry" when dieting is an A/I, and carbs will keep you full not masteron.
> 
> Just my opinion, if it works for you.......great but I think you might be in the minority.  Masteron is a finishing product.  If you can show me one piece of literature that claims muscle growth or strength gains I would love to read it.



I agree that diet is #1 when it comes to the "dry" look. One should not use aromatase inhibitors precontest because they will flatten you out too much. This is where the utility of masteron comes in, it will essentially be your very mild AI without flattening you out, and allow you to remain full when you carb  up. 

I never claimed masteron was good at building muscle or even strength. There are rumors it was used by the Chinese during the olympics at some point, but thats all debatable. 

It's a steroid that enhances other steroids is how I feel about it. 

I just finished a round of tren E with masteron E and had no itchy nipples, at all. Before that I ran deca with no itchy nipples... its really a great tool. If I had not run it I guarantee there'd be some lactation/sensitivity issues.


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## Ace5high (Jul 5, 2011)

CT said:


> Not really, I'm speaking from experience. I personally believe it works BEST when below a certain BF. Why not use something different that will work better?



Ive heard both sides of this argument on Mast... Some love it to death that are not 6% bf. Others seem to think it only work best there... 

What then are you suggesting is different and better exactly?  Ive been around a long time and unless you know some AAS Im unaware of Mast sounds exactly like what im looking for...

Im not running a bulking cycle. Im an athlete who requires speed and endurance as well as strength but cant add lots of weight. I dont run orals, I dont run tren, EQ doesn't seem worth it, I am Interested in Primo but its dang expensive, mast hit all things im interested in doing so why the hell not run it?


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## Ace5high (Jul 5, 2011)

CT - in your defense I do see what your saying in your first post. I know this forum gets a lot of noob attention, as they all can at times and my post does kinda sound like I have no direction, ha.

Its just that I am particular about my cycles as you can see from my last post. Where as most would prob be interested in bulking up with some deca/test. Im not in need of any bulking right now, been there. done that. Happy where im at since im more performance oriented in this particular cycle so those are the reasons Im looking into Mast if there is something else along those lines you think of please let me know!

FYI - Im prob between 10-11% BF currently.


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## maged (Jul 6, 2011)

CT said:


> To my knowledge the only thing that really keeps you "dry" when dieting is an A/I, and carbs will keep you full not masteron.
> 
> Just my opinion, if it works for you.......great but I think you might be in the minority. Masteron is a finishing product. *If you can show me one piece of literature that claims muscle growth or strength gains I would love to read it.*


 
masteron can produce some muscle mass...ofcourse not like tren deca or boldenone...but will produce muscle mass more than a steroid like primobolan and alittle bit less than boldenone and deca

and here is a piece of literature of why masteron was created (to be more specific adjusted form of proviron to increase its anabolic effect and muscle building)

*Masteron vs. Proviron*
*Q: What is the difference between Proviron and Masteron? I heard they are both DHT derivates and one was really just an oral form of the other. Could I use Proviron instead of Masteron for contest prep? I lost my source for BD Mastabol. *
A: Proviron (oral 1-methyl-dihydrotestosterone) and Masteron (an injectable form of 2-methyl-dihydrotestosterne) are indeed structurally very similar. Both are DHT hormones with a minor modification (methylation) on each. This similarity, however, doesn???t carry over extremely closely when it comes to function. Both steroids are DHT derivatives, yes, and because of this there is no estrogen conversion possible with either drug. They lack a structural trait necessary for their conversion to estrogen. This characteristic may also allow both steroids to offer some level of anti-estrogenic activity, as the non-aromatizable steroid may compete with other aromatizable steroids (like your own endogenous testosterone) for binding to the aromatase enzyme. This should lower estrogen levels and heighten the ratio of relative androgenic to estrogenic activity in the body. As such, both steroids could be used to some extent for cutting or contest preparations. The main value in this regard is that both may help, instead of hinder, the visible retention of fat and subcutaneous water. With less water retained, muscle definition can increase provided body fat is low enough. But this is about where the functional similarities between the two agents end. 
The main difference between Proviron and Masteron is their relative level of anabolic activity in skeletal muscle. Both steroids are capable of attaching to and activating the androgen receptor in muscle tissue. As such, both are theoretically capable of supporting muscle growth. But there is one major problem with Proviron. Like the base steroid dihydrotestosterone, Proviron has a high affinity for the 3-alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3HSD) enzyme. Why is this important? It is important because 3HSD produces a weaker steroid by removing the highly important 3-keto group on the active steroid molecule. It this case it produces what are known as weak steroid ???diols???. 3HSD is present in high amounts in muscle tissue, and represents a sort of blocking wall for the steroid to get through before it is able to find its corresponding receptor in the cytosol of the cell. Proviron and DHT will be actively looking for 3HSD if you will, and as a result very little will find the receptor before being converted to weakly active steroids. This is why people do not gain a lot of muscle mass while taking DHT or Proviron. The 1-methlation may result in improving the oral bioavailability of Proviron, hence the fact that it is an oral drug, but it doesn???t do much to protect it from 3HSD.
Masteron contains a 2-methylated derivative of DHT. Unlike the 1-methylation of Proviron, this alteration doesn???t effectively protect the steroid during oral dosing. This is why we only see Masteron as an injectable medication. However, shifting the methyl group from the 1 to the 2 position on the steroid backbone very effectively prevents conversion by 3HSD. As a result, the steroid is well equipped to enter the cell and break through the defensive line of 3HSD enzymes. It will reach the cytosolic androgen receptor in high concentrations, and because of this may impart a measurable tissue-building effect. So the bottom line is that while both may help improve the look of hardness to the muscles during contest preparations, only Masteron is actually going to offer a strong effect in muscle tissue itself. This means the potential for much more muscle size and strength gains during building phases of training, and at the very least a greater level of muscle preservation during cutting phases of training (the latter due to anabolic action in muscle helping to counter the catabolic effects of calorie restriction). These two drugs illustrate well the fact that categorizing the actions of steroids based on the three derivative bases (testosterone, nandrolone, and dihydrotestosterone) is not a highly accurate practice. So the next time someone tells you ???This is a DHT derivative??? so???, you can tell them ???So what? I want to know what THIS steroid does, not DHT!???
*Trait ??? Steroid*
*DHT*
*Proviron*
*Masteron*
Relative Anabolic
Low
low
High
Relative Androgenic
High
high
Moderate
Oral Bioavailability
Low
high
none
Estrogenic Activity
None
none
none


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## XYZ (Jul 6, 2011)

UA_Iron said:


> Actually this could be used as an argument for all steroids. They all work better when you're leaner. I agree that you will see the hardening affects much better when you're leaner and using masteron, but that isn't the only reason its used precontest.
> 
> Then please tell me, what else is it used for, and don't say as an A/I becasue 3 competitors I know all use letro up until the contest.
> 
> ...


 
This time, next time you might not be so lucky.


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## XYZ (Jul 6, 2011)

Ace5high said:


> Ive heard both sides of this argument on Mast... Some love it to death that are not 6% bf. Others seem to think it only work best there...
> 
> What then are you suggesting is different and better exactly? Ive been around a long time and unless you know some AAS Im unaware of Mast sounds exactly like what im looking for...
> 
> Im not running a bulking cycle. Im an athlete who requires speed and endurance as well as strength but cant add lots of weight. I dont run orals, I dont run tren, EQ doesn't seem worth it, I am Interested in Primo but its dang expensive, mast hit all things im interested in doing so why the hell not run it?


 
Anavar is what most in your postion who have "been around" use all the time.  With all of the cardio I assume you would be doing then the LDL and HDL issues would be in check.  Adding slo release niacin and fish oil would help as well.

You can use what ever you want honestly, I'm just pointing out that there are better options.  If you feel the need to blow money on masteron because you THINK it will work, then by all means go for it.  I'm just giving you advice from someone who has been there and seen that so to speak.


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## XYZ (Jul 6, 2011)

maged said:


> masteron can produce some muscle mass...ofcourse not like tren deca or boldenone...but will produce muscle mass more than a steroid like primobolan and alittle bit less than boldenone and deca
> 
> and here is a piece of literature of why masteron was created (to be more specific adjusted form of proviron to increase its anabolic effect and muscle building)
> 
> ...


 
May.  That is the key word.  It also suggest using it with a different compound, and it compares itself to proviron.

I should have said that it is a WEAK muscle builder at best, much better options are available.


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## maged (Jul 6, 2011)

CT said:


> May. That is the key word. It also suggest using it with a different compound, and it compares itself to proviron.
> 
> I should have said that it is a WEAK muscle builder at best, much better options are available.


 
and i stated above, it is less in muscle building than deca, boldenone, tren...but hugher than primobolan...which makes it a good compound overall


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## XYZ (Jul 6, 2011)

I agree, it's a great compound when you're lean enough to reap the full benefits of it.


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## UA_Iron (Jul 6, 2011)

CT said:


> This time, next time you might not be so lucky.



I know people who compete who don't use any AI's. So what? The guys you know place at all? Diet is still #1, despite what you think. 

Prami increases GH, so what, run GH if you want to increase GH. I'm well aware that it should be tapered up as I have run it before. Sides are still shitty.

Bromo has a great effects on dieting. Everyone said Formestane was outdated, now there's all these topical applications of that drug. 

And finally, I have had itchy nipples when running deca and tren, until I started running it with masteron. 

You can run masteron however you want bro, my application is perfect for my needs. I suggest that others try what I have pointed out here and prove me wrong, because you certainly have not, CT.


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## Ace5high (Jul 6, 2011)

CT said:


> Anavar is what most in your postion who have "been around" use all the time.  With all of the cardio I assume you would be doing then the LDL and HDL issues would be in check.  Adding slo release niacin and fish oil would help as well.
> 
> You can use what ever you want honestly, I'm just pointing out that there are better options.  If you feel the need to blow money on masteron because you THINK it will work, then by all means go for it.  I'm just giving you advice from someone who has been there and seen that so to speak.



I don't dislike Anavar... But it is more expensive for me to run var and do you really think it is more effective than mast 

From peoples reviews on Mast it sounds like lots of folks are VERY happy with it...

I could care less who's "right or wrong" about mast I was just lookin for peoples feedback...


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## njc (Jul 6, 2011)

I ran the ace version with prop and tren ace.  It gave me insane boners that I could maintain for a long time.


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## BigBird (Jul 7, 2011)

njc said:


> I ran the ace version with prop and tren ace. It gave me insane boners that I could maintain for a long time.


 
"Ace" version of Mast??  It's my understanding the short ester is Mast Prop (Di-prop to be exact) and long ester is Enanthate.  Never heard of Mast Ace.


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## XYZ (Jul 7, 2011)

UA_Iron said:


> I know people who compete who don't use any AI's. So what? The guys you know place at all? Diet is still #1, despite what you think.
> 
> Well that's wonderful, I'm glad you know them.  Guys who I know would rather not be mentioned on a board so I'll just keep that information to myself.  I agree that diet is and always will be the first priority, where did I ever say it wasn't?
> 
> ...


 
If you say so.

Whatever, I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong.  I'm giving my opinion nothing else.  I don't know why you've got such an attitude?

Do whatever you want, I really don't care.

I think the number one priority here is to make advice to most as safe as possible, I don't see how not using an A/I and risking gyno is safe, again, that's my opinion, if you feel different so be it.  I just don't think that the advice you're giving others is the safest.  If it works for you, great.


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## UA_Iron (Jul 7, 2011)

CT said:


> If you say so.
> 
> Whatever, I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong.  I'm giving my opinion nothing else.  I don't know why you've got such an attitude?
> 
> ...



I've been a little testy bro, my apologies. A lot of androgens, little sleep and not enough sex I guess 

Neither of us are wrong or right. Different viewpoints for an application of a drug. 

I always promote having the right AI's on hand, my personal experience is that I dont like the sides of dopamine antagonist type drugs. But having them on hand is wise for sure.


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## XYZ (Jul 8, 2011)

Well, feel better Bro.

Good luck.

...................And we can always agree to disagee on things BUT we both agree that diet is the most important aspect of everything?  I know that's what I try to pound into peoples heads that think 2g of gear is going to put on 20lbs of muscle and reduce BF by 20%.


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## Ace5high (Jul 8, 2011)

CT said:


> Well, feel better Bro.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> ...................And we can always agree to disagee on things BUT we both agree that diet is the most important aspect of everything?  I know that's what I try to pound into peoples heads that think 2g of gear is going to put on 20lbs of muscle and reduce BF by 20%.



Good luck with what? Glad to hear both your sides of the story... but can we stay on topic here?  LOL


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## XYZ (Jul 8, 2011)

What's your next question?  I thought I told you anavar over masteron for your goal?  Do you not like that answer or are you looking for something else?


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## BigBird (Jul 8, 2011)

Ace5high said:


> Good luck with what? Glad to hear both your sides of the story... but can we stay on topic here? LOL


 
If you re-read the correspondence between CT and UA Iron, you will note that UA Iron stated that his "testy" replies were due to inadequate sleep, high androgen levels and not enough sex.  CT responded in a good natured way wishing UA Iron "good luck" with those issues.  They've been on topic the entire thread discussing your question.  

Are you not able to follow along?


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## Ace5high (Jul 8, 2011)

CT said:


> What's your next question? I thought I told you anavar over masteron for your goal? Do you not like that answer or are you looking for something else?


 
Threads are for everyone's feedback not just the 1 single authority on the subject. I would like any contributions others are willing to offer. I didn't realize my question had been closed for discussion...?


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## Ace5high (Jul 8, 2011)

BigBird said:


> If you re-read the correspondence between CT and UA Iron, you will note that UA Iron stated that his "testy" replies were due to inadequate sleep, high androgen levels and not enough sex. CT responded in a good natured way wishing UA Iron "good luck" with those issues. They've been on topic the entire thread discussing your question.
> 
> Are you not able to follow along?


 
I'm following. If you were following you would see that we started chasing rabbits about the use of AI's during cycle...

Topic was regarding the different esters of masteron. Those two got off topic so I was trying to guide us all back on, chill.


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## BigBird (Jul 8, 2011)

Chill is my middle name son.  Who told you??  AI's, rabbits - doesn't matter: it's all connected.

Mast Prop gets the vote.


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## njc (Jul 10, 2011)

BigBird said:


> "Ace" version of Mast?? It's my understanding the short ester is Mast Prop (Di-prop to be exact) and long ester is Enanthate. Never heard of Mast Ace.


 

Yea youre right.  It was dost-prop.  I ran in with tren ace and test prop.


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