# Power lifters are damn strong!!!!!!!



## Johnnny (May 14, 2004)

The 2 powerlifters I've mentioned that I've spoken to a couple of times at my gym are damn strong. I really haven't seen them train, they'd always be coming when I'm leaving.

Yesterday I saw them do squats. THey did about 8 or 10 sets of squats & that was their leg workout. For the first half of the leg workout they played around with 3 & a half, 4 & 5 plates on the bar.

They threw on 6 plates & squatted it about 7 reps very low slightly below parallel to the floor. Then they did 7 plates for about 4 or 5 reps. Went up to 7 & a half plates for 3 or 4 reps. Then I couldn't believe it, they put on 8 & a half plates for 1 rep maximum & it looked like they could've done more reps if they wanted to. Then they did a few more sets working their way back down to 4 plates on each side. They were using a wide leg stance I noticed it was the same stance I learned for football.

Dayamn that's power. 

One guy was about 6ft-6ft2 & was probably at least 280lbs if not more he had a big stomach though & his face was a bit round (not criticising him at all). When I went to get my stuff from the locker room & came out in short shorts & a tank top. For someone with a stomach that big, he was pretty shaped & thick in the upper body & his legs were just massive & they had pretty good shape as well

The other guy was about 6ft3 or 6ft4 & was probably about the same weight maybe a bit lighter as his stomach was pretty flat but he still had a bit of a  stomach. His back, & shoulders were looking very thick & pretty hard as his back still had a V but thick. & his chest was pretty full & his arms were pretty big to. His legs were very thick & massive as well.

So far this is the only time I've been able to see them train. I have yet to see them train shoulders, chest, back or arms. But I'm sure they're probably the strongest ppl in the gym.

I know they train hard, but I can't help wondering what type's of steroids they're taking maybe D-Bol? Or testosterone suspension or Anadrol 50? But these guys are using the juice much more to the max than some of the other normal guys in the gym.

But even with steroids how'd they get sooo much power & thickness? I know they train hard, but still.


----------



## Saturday Fever (May 14, 2004)

Because they know HOW to train. Whether they use steroids or not, I won't speculate on. But if strength is what you want, you have to use a training style that produces strength. See Westside for the best example.


----------



## Saturday Fever (May 14, 2004)

Whatever you do, don't get sucked in by a lot of the stuf you see in magazines or on the internet. When the biggest squatters/deadlifters in the world all come from the same school of training, you know it's the right way, as science will verify.


----------



## Johnnny (May 14, 2004)

Saturday Fever who's "Westside"? Strength & thickness is really what I want more like what I had when I was 227lbs (5ft9 with a 34 inch waist & descent definition/power) for football in 2001 before my hyper thyroid problems started as a cause from the ephedrine/ephedra supplements with no prior thyroid condition.


I really want strength/thickness but I don't want a big stomach. Some of my exercises I do like a powerlifter. I use a wide stance for squats like them, I do deadlifts every so often, & I do standing military presses. But I think I could get more strength & thickness than I am.


----------



## Saturday Fever (May 14, 2004)

Westside is the pinnacle routine for strength training. It's called Westside because the routine originated at the Westside Barbell Club and was created by Louie Simmons and was based on the research done by Dr. Mel Siff and others.

There are 3 ways to gain strength:

1) The maximal effort method. You get stronger by constantly lifting as much as you possibly can.
2) The dynamic effort method. You get stronger when you can produce more force.
3) The repetitive method. This is obviously doing repititions on the individual muscles that make up the compound that lifts bench/squat/deadlift.

Westside is based on doing all 3 methods. There are numerous articles at www.elitefts.com or you could look in atherjen's online journal for a sample Westside routine.


----------



## Johnnny (May 14, 2004)

Well I already do those compound movements. after a light warm up set, my first set on every exercise for every muscle is at most 2-4 reps, sometimes just 1 rep but I usually try to do more reps with this weight. Then I take of 10 or 20lbs & do 5-7 reps, & then on the 3rd set of what ever I'm doing I take off another 10 or 20lbs & do 8-10 reps.


----------



## Saturday Fever (May 14, 2004)

That's not strength training. That's beginner stuff. I don't mean to be insulting, but if you want to lift like the big dogs, *you have to lift like the big dogs*. I'd be more than willing to help.


----------



## Mudge (May 14, 2004)

I am thinking that you mean 4 plates which means 4 plates per side, that would be 405 pounds. If you really meant 8 plates, that is 765, which I would not think a small 280 pound guy would be doing @ 6'2" with a belly, because that is about my size (261 with a waist smaller than my chest).



> I know they train hard, but I can't help wondering what type's of steroids they're taking maybe D-Bol? Or testosterone suspension or Anadrol 50? But these guys are using the juice much more to the max than some of the other normal guys in the gym.



If they are squatting in the 700s they aren't likely using just one or two steroids, they will be using a cocktail. Almost everyone uses at least 2-3 during each cycle.


----------



## Saturday Fever (May 14, 2004)

It's not unreasonable for a 6'2/280 guy to be squatting 765. It's unreasonable to think they'd be doing it in a "neon light gym" without a suit, wraps and belt, though.


----------



## Johnnny (May 14, 2004)

Well my bench before my thyroid sh!t caused by the ephedrine/ephedra supplements (with no prior thyroid condition) was 320lbs for 4 reps & I would've been able to add more until the problems & my squat was 4 plates for 4 or 5 reps & was looking to add more.

Currently I'm at 275lbs for bench for 5 reps or so & my squat is 3 plates for 7 reps.

I'd like to hear your advice. I can't over work myself or I could irritate my thyroid even though I'm on drugs for it & things are starting to look almost perfect.


----------



## Saturday Fever (May 14, 2004)

Take a look at atherjen's online journal and you'll see a sample Westside routine. Give the routine a good 8 weeks and you should be sufficiently pleased.


----------



## Johnnny (May 14, 2004)

Mudge they had 8 plates of 45lb plus a 25lb weight on each side on each side of the bar. Those guys were playing with 4 plates on each side, that was one of  their warm up sets.


----------



## Johnnny (May 14, 2004)

Saturday Fever where would I find this online journal? If you could supply a link that would be helpful. Thanks.


----------



## Saturday Fever (May 14, 2004)

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31451


----------



## Johnnny (May 14, 2004)

Yeah I know about steroid stacks, I was just listing a few mass building compounds.


----------



## Johnnny (May 14, 2004)

Thanks for the link. They were using weight lifting belts & knee wraps, no body suits though.


----------



## atherjen (May 14, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Saturday Fever *_
> http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31451


----------



## Saturday Fever (May 14, 2004)

for jen.


----------



## Rich46yo (May 14, 2004)

Ya also have to admit. Olympic weightlifting is an exciting sport..........Take care..........Rich


----------



## Johnnny (May 15, 2004)

Saturday Fever 3 questions. The routine there on that link, is that the actual Westside routine? & it's only 4 days a week, but how long would each training session following that routine be if I didn't stand around talking too much? & some of the exercises I'm no familiar with, I'll look at them today & list the ones that I'm not familiar with. One of them is push press, I've seen some college football routines with that exercise as apart of it.

Also if I watch my diet, will I get a big stomach from doing a routine like this? & should I even be doing 15mins of deep breathing cardio on the treadmill each time or would it not interfear with gains? Thanks.


----------



## Johnnny (May 15, 2004)

Saturday Fever I'm surprised Mudge thinks a 280lbs man at 6ft-6ft3 is small & doesn't think they could squat 8 & a half plates per side on the bar.

My best squat was legs parallel with a wide stance at 4 plates per side on the bar for 5 reps & I was only weighing around 225. & I'm completely natural.

One things for sure Saturday Fever, if Mudge was at my gym on Friday at 5pm, his jaw would be dropping as was everyone else's.


----------



## Johnnny (May 15, 2004)

Saturday Fever would you also be able to narrow down each day for me on what I should be doing if you have the time? I see there are lots of options in brackets that you could be doing. Plus I don't see too much emphasis on biceps.


----------



## Mudge (May 15, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Saturday Fever *_
> It's not unreasonable for a 6'2/280 guy to be squatting 765. It's unreasonable to think they'd be doing it in a "neon light gym" without a suit, wraps and belt, though.



For several reps? Yeah I'd say so. The local big guy is an Olympic shotputter, who can pull off a low 8s squat, and hes no average gym going cheeseball.


----------



## Mudge (May 15, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> Mudge they had 8 plates of 45lb plus a 25lb weight on each side on each side of the bar. Those guys were playing with 4 plates on each side, that was one of  their warm up sets.



Ass to heels? I saw a kid wearing tights (looking rather fruity with his balls hanging out for everyone to see) doing 1/4 squats with 405, sad.


----------



## Mudge (May 15, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> Also if I watch my diet, will I get a big stomach from doing a routine like this? & should I even be doing 15mins of deep breathing cardio on the treadmill each time or would it not interfear with gains? Thanks.



Working out doesn't make you fat.



> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> Saturday Fever I'm surprised Mudge thinks a 280lbs man at 6ft-6ft3 is small & doesn't think they could squat 8 & a half plates per side on the bar.



If a guy that tall is 280 and fat as described, yes I would not expect such lifting.



> One things for sure Saturday Fever, if Mudge was at my gym on Friday at 5pm, his jaw would be dropping as was everyone else's.



I would have been very impressed, 790 for even a half squat is not a small achievement. About the best I've seen from a non-competing lifter is 5 plates plus quarters for half squats, on a smith machine.


----------



## Johnnny (May 15, 2004)

Mudge these guys were doing 8 & a half plates a side going so low that their LEGS BELOW PARALLEL TO THE FLOOR.

Like I said the one guy who was probably around 290lbs & had a stomach, was still VERY WELL SHAPED shaped in the upper & lower body with his thickness as was his 6ft2 or so 280lb or so friend/training partner. He had much less of a stomach & he could still squat the 8 & a half plates LEGS BELOW PARALLEL TO THE FLOOR.


----------



## Johnnny (May 15, 2004)

These guys are much stronger than you thinks. If you can do that much on squats with LEGS BELOW PARALLEL TO THE FLOOR, than you have amazing power.


----------



## Mudge (May 15, 2004)

So much stronger than who thinks? If anything thinks a 790 squat even if half way is not an abnormally impressive feat, then obviously they dont know what strength is. It is so abnormal that I had expected that it was a goofed up post from the get go, a lot of newbies talk plates in total count as opposed to one side, which is what I was expecting. Our local big chief squats low 8s and is an Olympic shotputter, throwing 16 pounds for 72 feet, thats not exactly your average gym goer. I had someone talking to me the other day about my "amazing" SLDL and I told him straight out that it was pussy weight.

So I have no idea who you are talking about here because I haven't seen anyone call them weak.


----------



## Johnnny (May 15, 2004)

Mudge just for your information I'm not a newbie, I've been training for almost 10yrs. My bench was 320lbs for 4 reps & my squat was 405 for 5 reps LEGS PARALLEL TO THE FLOOR before my hyper throid problems started caused by the ephedrine/ephedra supplements with no prior thyroid problem. Even experienced ppl I know talk in "Plates".

There's nothing goofed up about this thread, only that you misunderstood from the get go.


----------



## Mudge (May 15, 2004)

To the floor is below parallel, so if you mean parllel to the floor, that is a half squat not a full squat.

I never said talking in plates was incorrect, again your reading comprehension is poor. People talk in plates per side, just as you had done - which I has incorrectly assumed was both sides. Rarely does anyone squat 405, much less nearly 800 pounds as you had seen that day.

I never said the thread was goofed, I said that I assumed that. Please read more carefully


----------



## Johnnny (May 15, 2004)

Mudge you did say newbies talk that way about plates, I'm not a newbie. Ppl can talk however they want to talk. The most common reason ppl talk plates is because they don't know the exact weight or as a short form. 

Maybe what you wrote wasn't clear, not my reading comprehension being poor. What you wrote gives the impression on how I responded. There's no need for criticism in this thread.

If I meant 4 plates aside I would've said 4 plates.

How come you haven't added any training information in this manner to this thread as you seem to know a lot?


----------



## Mudge (May 15, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> Mudge you did say newbies talk that way about plates, I'm not a newbie. Ppl can talk however they want to talk.



Which we worked past long ago because you know 8 plates means 8 plates a side, why do you keep bringing this up?



> If I meant 4 plates aside I would've said 4 plates.



Which shows you know how people generally refer to it 



> How come you haven't added any training information in this manner to this thread as you seem to know a lot?



So far this is not a training information thread, it is an observation on powerlifters being strong. If you want to know why they are strong then perhaps I could attempt to comment on such.


----------



## Todd Bostrom (May 15, 2004)

Mudge, 

If you insist on pushing the issue, maybe you should not be a moderator.  This is something I would expect form a teen.

Johnny,

These guy's must be nationally know lifters.  To push that kind of weight without a squats suit(just knee wraps and belt) is quite impressive.  Do you happen to know their names?


----------



## Mudge (May 15, 2004)

Todd, what issue am I pushing? I am responding to a post directed to me, where obviously my text was not read as I posted it.



> _*Originally posted by Todd Bostrom *_
> These guy's must be nationally know lifters.  To push that kind of weight without a squats suit(just knee wraps and belt) is quite impressive.  Do you happen to know their names?



This is part of why I suspected the weights were incorrectly referenced which was covered LONG ago, this is not weight just any gym rat pushes even if he is the #1 lifter in that gym. Very impressive to say the least, these aren't just any old lifters.


----------



## LAM (May 15, 2004)

8 plates a side + a 25 lber is 905.  I would have to say only a few people in the world could pull that off with out a super-suit on...

Let alone 2 people who train together using those sorts of poudages...where is this gym ?


----------



## Mudge (May 15, 2004)

LAM, are you saying the bar weighs more? My gym has I think 3 bars that can handle that kind of weight, but I have no idea what they weigh. At least one of them is probably a full 2.5" bar, which is listed online as being 135 pounds. We also have one of those squat stations where you dont have to walk around with the weight on your back, I dont remember what they are called though.

The current suited record is I believe 1146, but I could be wrong.


----------



## LAM (May 15, 2004)

my bad...dam low carbing and math ! 

I think the super heavy olympic bars are 52 lbs vs 45 lbs.  I don't know where I came up with an extra 95 lbs ! lol


----------



## Mudge (May 15, 2004)

(IM-0055-2S) - GRIP BAR - 2" SOLID STEEL - CHROME PLATED 
Reg. $349: Sale: $199.95 - 78 lbs 

(IM-0055-2.5S) - GRIP BAR - 2.5" SOLID STEEL - CHROME PLATED 
Reg. $449: Sale: $249.95 - 98 lbs 

(IM-0055-3S) - GRIP BAR - 3" SOLID STEEL - CHROME PLATED 
Reg. $599: Sale: $349.95 - 135 lbs

Designed for Olympic Plates 
Capacity - 600 lbs & more


----------



## Johnnny (May 15, 2004)

Todd Bostrom I don't know their names as I've only briefly spoken to them a couple of times about training so I don't know if they're known nationally. But if they aren't, they should be for being able to squat 8 & a half plates aside or as some ppl would prefer  8 & a half plates on one side 8x45=360+25=385+385=770+45lbs=815lbs.


As for this thread being about powerlifting training, if it wasn't before, it certainly even more so became one when Saturdayfever posted the Westside training routine & me asking for advice on it. I'm sure I'll hear from him tomorrow.

Mudge maybe instead of criticism, maybe it would be more productive to add some training information to this thread since you seem to know a lot about it. It would be appreciated.


----------



## Mudge (May 15, 2004)

As per our PMs, I was not trying to critisize at all and I dont know where that feeling came from. My every post was trying to recant that I was not putting a stick in your side at all, I had assumed you were incorrect because of the massive weights we are talking, we are talking national level powerlifting here, even a true 405 squat is half unbelievable in the 3 gyms I've spent time in   Assumption is not accusation.

I did post a Westside link recently:

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30485

I also have a couple links in my signature on benching technique for anyone interested.


----------



## Dale Mabry (May 15, 2004)

Johnny, I sincerely love the fact that you mention your thyroid condition from ephedra without a prior condition in every post regradless of whether it is pertinent or not.  Mudge, I know where you are coming from.

Anyway, Westside is not just about what movements you do, but how you do them.  It is multi-modal in that you are hitting both explosive and maximal movements in a week.  Look up Louie Simmons, he is the man behind the madness at Westside.  I did a Westside routine for 10 weeks and the results were by far better than any other strength routine.


----------



## Saturday Fever (May 15, 2004)

Nobody, and I mean nobody, squats 600+ without a squat suit. Squat briefs maybe. Arguing is pointless. The facts have been set forth.


----------



## JerseyDevil (May 16, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Dale Mabry *_
> Johnny, I sincerely love the fact that you mention your thyroid condition from ephedra without a prior condition in every post regradless of whether it is pertinent or not.


I started thinking maybe I was the only one that noticed that.


----------



## Johnnny (May 16, 2004)

Saturday Fever I'm serious & being completely frank with you no joke all  these 2 guys were wearing was a t-shirt, shorts a weight lifting belt & knee wraps even for their 815lb squat. I'm not sure what squatting briefs are, would they be tight spandexy shorts? Cause one of the guys was wearing that. They didn't have a suit on the whole time, no joke it blew my mind. If you don't believe me, than you would've had to been there to see it.

Saturday Fever I don't know if you read a couple of the earlier replies, but I asked you if you could clearify that routine on the link you supplied & also clearify some of the exercises like push press? I've never done that. & I'm not sure if I would have to do all the exercises listed on that routine for each individual day. I'd really appreciate it as I want to start the routine tomorrow. It's a 4 day a week routine right? Thanks for your time.

Dale Mabry I only mention my throid condition caused by those supplements as some ppl may still think that I already had one, or they haven't read my thyroid post & might automatically think that I already had a condition.


----------



## Dale Mabry (May 16, 2004)

It would be best if you stuck to the routinr as much aspossible.

A push press is a military press that you do with a barbell standing up.  You initiate the movement with your legs so you basically squat down a but and then explode up, pushing the weight overhead.


----------



## Johnnny (May 16, 2004)

So it's standing military press? I do that already but without squatting down a little bit & exploding. I do it infront of me with about 185lbs for 4 reps. But I asume this exercise is slightly different with the slight squat than the way I'm doing it?


----------



## Mudge (May 16, 2004)

I believe Fux was not suited when he ripped both his quads and he was under something like 675?


----------



## kvyd (May 16, 2004)

i dont really see the validity of this thread...oh well


----------



## Johnnny (May 16, 2004)

kvyd this was just a thread to say just how strong some powerlifters are & how they train?

kvyd I guess you don't have any info on the subject you could add?


----------



## kvyd (May 16, 2004)

hmm lets see...if they are powerlfiters i hope they are strong...whats impressive about a weak power lifter??


----------



## Johnnny (May 16, 2004)

Did I ever say they're week? & why do you hope they are strong? You don't think a legs below parallel to the floor squat for 815lbs is strong enough?


----------



## Johnnny (May 17, 2004)

Saturday Fever are you around?


----------



## Mudge (May 17, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> Did I ever say they're week?



He never said that you said they were, he was pointing out the obvious, powerlifters generally would not be weak. You are being defensive on every single post and implying people said things that they didn't.

Since we have been through all this though, hopefully we can make this a productive topic, although I am not aware of a lot of powerlifters residing here.


----------



## Saturday Fever (May 17, 2004)

> although I am not aware of a lot of powerlifters residing here.



True dat.

I showed you where to find a powerlifting routine to help you lift like the big dogs. I'm not sure what about the routine is confusing you, so you'll need to give me specific questions.


----------



## Johnnny (May 17, 2004)

He just made it sound like he thought they were weak, that's all.
I usually try to be as clear as possible when I'm talking about something so there are no misunderstandings such as this.

But I'm surprised that when bodybuilders who are eventually looking to turn pro in their first 2-4 years training & cycling steroids & growth hormone/insulin don't train like powerlifters to get the most size & power possible & then start developing everything even more & train more like bodybuilders. This is what I would do.


----------



## Johnnny (May 17, 2004)

Saturday Fever I PM'd you I don't know if you recieved them yet or not.


----------



## PreMier (May 17, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> Saturday Fever I PM'd you I don't know if you recieved them yet or not.




Maybe you annoy him


----------



## nR_Kris (May 17, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> before my hyper throid problems started caused by the ephedrine/ephedra supplements .



what happend with the ephedrine did u overdosed? or u just used too much ephedrine with out cyclying off?...and whast that hyperthyroid or that thing?


----------



## Johnnny (May 17, 2004)

nR_Kris well everyone reacts differently to drugs & supplements. I had no prior thyroid condtion before I took the ephedrine/ephedra & thermogenic fatburners containing the herbal forms of these. It took about a year of using them & I stopped using them as I didn' like how they were making me feel, yet I was still feeling the same way. Eventually the doctor found I was getting too much thyroid hormone. I started a thyroid thread in this section you should check it out.


Anyway back on track Saturday Fever I'm just not sure if I have to do all the exercises listed for each day or are they options to change your routine every 4 weeks?

PreMier you said 





> Maybe you annoy him


 Now why would you say a thing like that? I've said nothing annoying here. I've only asked him for advice on this type of training. I guess you don't have anything informative to add?


----------



## Mudge (May 17, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> But I'm surprised that when bodybuilders who are eventually looking to turn pro in their first 2-4 years training & cycling steroids & growth hormone/insulin don't train like powerlifters



It takes a lot longer than that, I've seen people do amazing things within a few years but not pro level. Generally speaking the biggest bodybuilders have stuck to the basics and lifted heavy, similar to a powerlifter.


----------



## Johnnny (May 17, 2004)

Dorian Yates turned pro very quickly. I have his Blood & Guts with a brief pro history.


----------



## Mudge (May 17, 2004)

Yates came along pretty fast as did most of the pros. Vince Taylor and a couple others got started later in life, but generally speaking you are looking at 8 years of hardcore juice, eating, and training before they see the pro ranks. For someone to be 23 and in the heavyweights as a national competitor is somewhat rare but certainly not unheard of, those are the Jay Cutler types, but to get that last bit takes further years of development.


----------



## Johnnny (May 18, 2004)

Saturdayfever I guess you're too busy to answer my PM's or questions on this type of routine? I just want to know if I have to do everything listed for each day as I see a lot of options in brackets & not sure which ones I should be doing & for how long? Plus do you think this routine could cause over training?


----------



## altern08 (May 19, 2004)

Box squats are key for a great squat.  They are harder than the real thing but after doing them (I use aerobic steps because they are easy to adjust), you will never ask yourself if you are low enough.  You will blast out of the whole quicker, too, because it builds the posterior chain (Big quads do not always equal big squat).  Good mornings/romanian deadlifts are also key, for low back power.


----------



## altern08 (May 19, 2004)

day one: max strength (squats/deadlifts: percentage of 1RM x reps x sets)

Romanian Deadlifts: .23 x 5 x 2, .31 x 3, .39 x 3, .47 x 2, .55 x 2, .63 x 1, .71 x 1, .79 x 1, .87 x 1, .95 x 1, 1.03 x 1.  Use for 2-3 weeks then cycle with good mornings, low box squats, or deadlifts.


day two - dynamic effort (72 hours after max strength): parallel box squats (percentage of full squat 1rm x reps x sets): .23 x 2, .31 x 2, .39 x 2, .45 x 2, .50 x 2 x 8.  percentage of 1 rm goes up 2.5% per week peaking at 62.5% on week 6.  Focus on exploding the weight with speed on  each rep.


----------



## altern08 (May 19, 2004)

oh, don't forget the assistance exercises.


----------



## Johnnny (May 20, 2004)

For example what's this .45x2? Is this the amount of effort x those 2 reps?

The only thing I'm worried about on that type of routine listed in the linke Saturday Fever provided is that it looks like it could lead to overtraining & burn out very quickly even though it's only 4 days a week.


----------



## Deeznuts (May 20, 2004)

> _*Originally posted by Johnnny *_
> For example what's this .45x2? Is this the amount of effort x those 2 reps?
> 
> The only thing I'm worried about on that type of routine listed in the linke Saturday Fever provided is that it looks like it could lead to overtraining & burn out very quickly even though it's only 4 days a week.


 

I believe it's the percentage of your 1RM.


----------



## Deeznuts (May 20, 2004)

IMO this routine works very well. I used it during powerlifting season and had awesome gains.

Good luck


----------



## Johnnny (May 20, 2004)

I just found out that at least one if not both of these 2 powerlifters are nationally ranked & have competed in the Strong Man Competions you see on ESPN & TSN & competed in Europe as well. I know for a fact that the guy with the stomach who still had great shape & size to both upper & lower body is nationally ranked & has competed in the Strong Man Competions & in Europe. I'm not sure about his partner, but I believe he's also nationally ranked or could be just a good friend but probably the latter.

Also do you Saturday Fever or anyone else think that it would be very easy to overtrain your body with this type of routine?


----------



## Saturday Fever (May 20, 2004)

No. You're misunderstanding the concept of overtraining. Your body is hard to overtrain. Your CNS (Central Nervous System) is very easy to overtrain. This routine works around that by varying the lifts every 1-3 weeks. As long as you eat right and take rest days the routine will not overtrain you.


----------



## Johnnny (May 20, 2004)

Saturday Fever would you have the time to answer my other questions?


----------



## Saturday Fever (May 20, 2004)

Monday-Max effort sq/dl day

1) Main max effort exercise (*do only one of the following*) (do singles on the sq and dl, max set of 3 on GM)
A) low or high box squat (can use a variety of bars, ie safety squat bar, manta ray,
     front squat harness, buffalo bar, and cambered squat bar)
B) good mornings (bent over or arched back) (cab use all the bars listed above)
C) deadlift variation (standing on 3 inch box, rack pulls, reverse band DL)
2) Low back training (ie reverse hypers, ham/glute raises, regular hypers, half dls, Romanian dls)
* do 4 sets of 8-10 reps (*pick one listed*)
3)Ab work (sit ups, standing lat machine abs, leg raises, spread eagle sit ups)
*do 4 sets of 8-20 reps (*pick one listed*)
4)Lats( pick one: pulldowns, chest supported rows, pulley rows,  barbell rows) (*pick one listed*)


Wednesday-Max effort bp day

1) Main exercise (*do only one of the following*) (all exercises are with a close grip, except where noted)
A) board press for a max single or max set of 3
B) floor press for a max single or max set of 3
C) dumbbell presses for 3 sets of 20 reps
D) wide grip benches for a max set of 6,10, or 12
E) close grip inclines or declines for a max single or triple
F) reverse band presses for max single
2)Triceps-either JM presses or extensions (*pick one listed*for 3-4 sets of 3-10 reps
3)Pushdowns-3-4 sets of 8-10 reps
4)Side lateral raises:3-4 sets of 8-12 reps
5)Lats: pick one of the above exercises and do 4-5 sets of 8-10 reps (*see above, pick one*)
6)Biceps-pick a bicep exercise and do 2-3 sets of 8-20 reps (*pick any curl you like*)


Friday-Speed squat day

1)Box squat: do 8-12 doubles with 50-60 percent of your best contest squat or 65-75 percent of your box max
2)Low back training (see above)
3)Abs(see above)
4)neck work

Sunday-Speed BP

1) Speed benches: do 8-10 triples with 55% of your shirt max or 60% of your raw max
2)Triceps(see above)
3)Pushdowns(see above)
4)Front raises 3-4 sets of 8-10 reps
5)Lats(see above)
6)Biceps(see above)


----------



## Johnnny (May 21, 2004)

The questions that I asked at the time you provided the link to this routine was do I have to do everything listed for each days schedule? As I see alot of brackets with options saying do one of the following or only %50 of your max.

How would you know what do to or what not to do that day of that weeK? Do you do what you feel like? Or would you change some of the exercises every 4 weeks or every week?

The other thing I'm concerned about is over training. This routine the way it is looks like it could cause over training in less than a month.


----------



## Saturday Fever (May 21, 2004)

You decide what you want to do when you get to the gym. Or at dinner the night before. Or when you're laying in bed. It doesn't matter when. And it won't lead to overtraining. Again, you don't understand overtraining.


----------



## altern08 (May 21, 2004)

*overtraing*

When I first tried training using conjugated periodization (what Westside uses), it quickly made me realize why I had tried since 1994 to get my 300 lbs squat back but was able to take it from 225 on 03DEC29 to 320 on 04APR19.  All those other times I kept trying to increase it with 300 lbs my CNS was toast but on this system I rotated parallel box squats, romanian deadlifts, low box squats, and conventional deadlifts every 2-3 weeks and did speed work.  Did I overtrain?  Mind you, I'm drug free, just take vitamins and eat normal, did supplementary exercises and was maxing out on my heavy days with 103% of my 1rm . . . and I still had enough left to do aerobics.  The body can take more than the CNS can:  you may even, at higher levels of traning, have to rotate exercises every 1-2 weeks, to keep from burning out.  A good guide to training in certain rep ranges is A.S. Prilepin's table.  Very invaluable read!


----------



## Saturday Fever (May 21, 2004)

> A good guide to training in certain rep ranges is A.S. Prilepin's table. Very invaluable read!



A true master indeed.


----------



## altern08 (May 21, 2004)

*Training Westside*

Go to http://tsampa.org/training/blog/archives.  This guy documented and filmed his first year on the westside system.  There are calculators and videos on this site, too, including videos of JM Presses, Benches with chains, reverse band deadlifts, box squats. . . . you'll love it, I did!!!


----------



## Johnnny (May 21, 2004)

Well I think I do understand overtraining as I was doing it when training really hare one summer when I was 19yrs old. 

I started losing some gains, losing strength, feeling tired & not wanting to go to the gym. I explained my routine (I forget what it was at the time) to a bodybuilder who was natural & he said I'm overtraining & doing too much each workout & at the gym each workout too long.

So he helped me fix up my routine so I wouldn't overtrain. I took 2 weeks off as I was away anyway on vacation. When I came back I followed his advice & I started gaining my strength back & then some.

So you just decide what you want to do at that given moment eh?

altern08 thanx for the links.


----------



## Mudge (May 21, 2004)

When I was around 18 I ran an overtraining program doing up to 36 sets per bodypart weekly, I grew like never before. Still have the stretch marks 10 years later.


----------



## Saturday Fever (May 21, 2004)

If you do the routine I showed you, you will not be overtraining. The variation in the lifts you do from week to week will prevent your CNS from overtraining, and the routine itself would not overtrain your body. Do it on the days listed, do what is listed, do variation from week to week. You will not overtrain.

If you want to see real working results of what that type of routine does, check out MonStar's online journal or atherjen's online journal.


----------



## Johnnny (May 21, 2004)

Mudge 





> When I was around 18 I ran an overtraining program doing up to 36 sets per bodypart weekly, I grew like never before. Still have the stretch marks 10 years later.



Most ppl when they over train especially that much & for that long don't grow much, the opposite happens.

Saturday Fever so are there certain exercises I should be keeping every week or change them all every week? Where would I find this online journal? Thanks.


----------



## Saturday Fever (May 21, 2004)

In the online journals section of this forum.


----------



## Johnnny (Jul 8, 2004)

I saw one of the powerlifters at the gym today. He was training alone.

He was doing shoulders. This powerlifter didn't have as big of a gut as his partner who still holds great shape by the way despite the stomach.

But the guy I saw today was doing shoulder dumbbell presses. He was using 130lbs in each hand repping it out 5-7 reps. I'm sure he can do 315lbs on barbell military press & a lot more.

For side raises, he was using 65lbs in each hand with pretty good form & a good 6-8 reps.

Even with the drugs, it's amazing how damn strong they are. This guy has pretty good shape.

But 130's in each for shoulder press. That's damn heavy. He had to get another guy to put the dumbbell up on his shoulder. 

Crazy sh!t.


----------

