# OCEANGURL01 : Your JOURNAL



## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

last monday i had 100 grams of carbs
       tuesday 80 
       wed 60
       thursday 40
        friday 70
        sat 40
        and tomorrow hoepfully in the 40's 
(i havent weight myself since last sunday morning) 
should i weight myself tomorrow morning? (sunday) or wait till monday morning ????
p.s. ive been working out too .. 4 days weight training and 2 days cardio.....


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 11, 2003)

OG.......I have started your Journal for you......I am deleting this post form w8's Journal

Ask your questions here please? 

DP


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> last monday i had 100 grams of carbs
> tuesday 80
> wed 60
> ...



You can wiegh yourself whenever you want.......w8 is secondary to fat loss....measurements (weekly) and skinfolds (monthly) are more valuable...the only reason we check our w8 is to be sure that we are not losing too much or too fast! 

DP


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## w8lifter (Jan 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> OG.......I have started your Journal for you......I am deleting this post form w8's Journal
> 
> Ask your questions here please?
> ...




Thank you...exactly what I was going to do....only you did it w/ more class and patience than I would have, lol.


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

i started off lowering my carb intake into 100 grams on monday and you can see the above post for the rest of the week. ididnt weight myself since last sunday.. i wanna see if it made any difference (the low carb) should i weight myself tomorrow or monday???


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> Thank you...exactly what I was going to do....only you did it w/ more class and patience than I would have, lol.



Yeah Right!

OG, read my reply above!

DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

how many pounds per week can i lose (safe loss)


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> how many pounds per week can i lose (safe loss)



none permanently


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> You can wiegh yourself whenever you want.......w8 is secondary to fat loss....measurements (weekly) and skinfolds (monthly) are more valuable...the only reason we check our w8 is to be sure that we are not losing too much or too fast!
> 
> DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

none? for the first week none??


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 11, 2003)

A pound of fat has 3500 calories...we are increasing your calories, you may lose weight (water weight form glycogen (don't ask) depletion), but it is unlikely that you will lose FAT w/o compliance to the programs.  And not in the first week!

You're pocessed with "fast results" and all that is gonna do is screw you metabolism up more than  you have already...and your more than likely to end up being more and more overweight as you age!

If you "Listen Up" to those that have been trying to help you....you 

1) Learn how to eat to control fat for the rest of your life
2) Become healthier
3) Get Leaner
4) Learn more about yourself and your body than you have so far, in a much shorter time

You said that you are 20.......excuse for me for asking, but based on your questions and attitute........is that the truth please (no offense intended)?


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

yes i am 20 yrs old. i may not sound 20, because no one in my family, friends read nutrition lables or know anything about nutritions thats why my questions are annoying you guys.


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 11, 2003)

Then excuse me for asking....we are trying to help.

How about you ask questions that we haven't answered, in your journal, instead of all over the place......and we try to help you here, OKay? 

DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

i know you are trying to help! and you are helping already! thank you. i just feel like im annoying you guys.. because my questions sound kinda stupid


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## w8lifter (Jan 11, 2003)

We don't mind "stupid" questions (not that I'm saying they are) as long as we know you're listening to the answers


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## w8lifter (Jan 11, 2003)

Do you want to post your workout schedule?


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 11, 2003)

And Daily Meal Plan?


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

i am listening to  your answers and following it (my best)


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 11, 2003)

Repeat:  If you post a Meal plan (why they asked you to start a Journal)...we would know that you were, or be able to hlep you better!

(I know you have seen others, why not pattern yours after Jodi, her meals, her W/O's....for format only...but post  what you ate and did instead)

DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

tomorrow 1/12/2003

8 am - 1/2 cup oatmeal(27 carb,5 protein,3 fat) and mix it with 1 scoop of protein powder that contains 3 grams of carbs and 22 grams of protein and 2 grams of fat

workout: warm up on treadmill for 10 minutes (high intensity)
 (lower body) each excersie do 5 sets  12-maxout reps
do abs ( 5 sets) two different excersies 

12:00 pm  protein shake, 3 boiled egg whites, some celery..

(gotta be at work @ 1:00 pm) 

at work: 3:00 Pm protein shake 

6:00 pm chicken breast, with barbecue sauce... 31 protein, 2 carbs, 1 fat.
           also have salad ( lettuce, brocolli, and celery) 

8:30 pm isopure shake, 3 grams of carbs , 25 grams protein, 0 fat
               (some peanut butter) 1 table spoon



Is there something that im adding or missing in my meals???


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## w8lifter (Jan 11, 2003)

tomorrow 1/12/2003

8 am - 1/2 cup oatmeal(27 carb,5 protein,3 fat) and mix it with 1 scoop of protein powder that contains 3 grams of carbs and 22 grams of protein and 2 grams of fat

*this is good...but add a fat source...heavy cream or peanut butter would be good here*

workout: warm up on treadmill for 10 minutes (high intensity)
 (lower body) each excersie do 5 sets  12-maxout reps
do abs ( 5 sets) two different excersies 

*Did you get that trainer to make a program for you? It would help if you spelled out your workout...what exercises you do, what bodyparts you work together, etc.*

12:00 pm  protein shake, 3 boiled egg whites, some celery..

*Good....but add the yolks....you need a fat source in every meal or your protein will be used for energy and you won't be getting enough calories*

(gotta be at work @ 1:00 pm) 

at work: 3:00 Pm protein shake 

*Again....don't eat protein by itself...have fat (flax or cream) and a carb if you're having carbs...an apple would go good here*

6:00 pm chicken breast, with barbecue sauce... 31 protein, 2 carbs, 1 fat.
           also have salad ( lettuce, brocolli, and celery) 

*The barbeque sauce is full of sugar...use dry and/or fresh spices to flavour chicken....try adding some newmans dressing on your salad as a fat source...or make your own from apple cider vinegar and flax seed oil*

8:30 pm isopure shake, 3 grams of carbs , 25 grams protein, 0 fat
               (some peanut butter) 1 table spoon



Is there something that im adding or missing in my meals???


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## w8lifter (Jan 11, 2003)

OMG....I pulled a DP  ...I didn't really edit your post OG...just hit the wrong button ...sorry


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

if i add apple to tommorow's meal i would increase my carb intake to 24 more grams of carbs. im trying to have only 40 grams of carbs for tomrrow. or am i wrong?


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

my neighbor who know alot about resistant training gave me my workout schedule 
usually ill have mondays off ( school all day ) 
tuedays - cardio 30 minutes on an empty stomach (only coffee)


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

my neighbor who know alot about resistant training gave me my workout schedule 
usually ill have mondays off ( school all day ) 
tuedays - cardio 30 minutes on an empty stomach (only coffee) 
               and work on abs (5 sets) 
wed- warm up 10 minutes, lower body incldes (calves, lunges and others... abs (5sets)
thurs- upper body workout, abs as usual , warmup for 10 minutes
friday-same as wed
saturday - same as thrus
sunday- cardio


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## w8lifter (Jan 11, 2003)

OG....what kind of physique do you want? I know you said 14%, but do you have a picture of the physique you're striving for?


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

you say add fat to your daily meals.. how much fat??? Im afraid to get a fatty ( bulky stomach ) which i already have if i eat more good fat


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## w8lifter (Jan 11, 2003)

10 g per meal. Eating fat does not make you fat.


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

wow 10 grams! ill try my best... 
this stupid trainer at the gym told me i can have only up to 25 grams of fat a day!!!!

i dont understand what you mean if i have a physices??


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> i am listening to  your answers and following it (my best)
> 
> 
> Is there something that im adding or missing in my meals???







> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> if i add apple to tommorow's meal i would increase my carb intake to 24 more grams of carbs. im trying to have only 40 grams of carbs for tomrrow. or am i wrong?




WRONG!  You need more carbs at first, before we go this low w/you!


As w8 said about the fat...STOP being fat phobic!

You are not following what I gave you...you are trying to do to much, too soon and the wrong way!

We asked you to go from 150 C to 70-80 C..NOT 40 

DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

so 60 is the lowest you guys want me to go to???


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 11, 2003)

Somebody find that post and "plant it" here please?

Typo 70-80


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## w8lifter (Jan 11, 2003)

I'm gonna assume what you are doing IS NOT WORKING! So...

1) Search cardio here.......I would increase your resistance traing to 45-50 minutes 4-5 times a week and decrease cardio to no more than 2. YES 2!!!

you want to add LBM to improve your metabolism...each pound requiring 30-50 more caloires a day (potentailly burning (oxidizing) more BF.....NOT lose LBM from excessive cardio......BW doesn't matter.....body composition does!

2) So you are 129 lbs with roughly 100 pounds of LBM

you currently eat 

100 (ave P) 150 C and 20 F (worst thing you do)....hopefully over 4-5 meals a day

That is 1180 calories a day..so your metaboism is extremely compromised

Before you can cut BF effectively....because we can't lower your calories (you have nowhere to go)...we have to reset your metabolism....at a minimum of 12 caloires per pound per day...with a major shift in macronutrients...AND WE HAVE TO DO THIS GRADUALLY


3) So here are your immediate (next 2 week goals)

Eat 5 or 6 times a day.......not more at first....just more spread out.....unless you do so already

Gradually raise protein to 1 gr/# or 130 grams per/day...then 1.25 gr/#/d...and finally 1.5 grams per pound per day....Drink at least 4-5 L of water as you do this per day....

as you do that, lower carbs to about 60-70 grams per day (see slow burners...we only suggest certain carbs)........so maybe in steps....120....100...80...along with the protein increase.

Finally, raise fat.....maybe 2 grams per meal, again in steps till you are at about 10-12 grams per meal

So at the end of two weeks....and if you try to do this too quickly....you WILL accummulate BF...we want you at

1540 calories

180 P
70 C
60 F

3 meals 30 P 20 C 10 F
2 meals 30 P 15 C 10 F
1 meal. 30 P 00 C 10 F

(we don't count greens and veggies)....

Start a Journal..and we can talk about meal planning.




Shopping list! 

sugar-free low carb protein powder
lean beef
chicken breast
turkey breast
fresh fish
canned tuna
canned salmon
eggs
creamed cottage cheese** 
hard cheese **
sweet potatoes
yams
long grain brown rice
old fashioned oats
steel cut oats
eggplant
squash
romaine lettuce
spinach
asparagus
avocado
broccoli
brussels sprouts
cabbage
cauliflower
cucumbers
celery
peppers (any color)
mushrooms
string beans
zucchini
apples
bananas**
fresh or frozen (w/o syrup) berries
peaches
grapefruit
heavy whipping cream (35% ....NOT whipped cream the dessert topping)
olive oil
safflower oil
flax seed oil
walnut oil
almonds
walnuts
natural sugar-free peanut butter

** Not all foods on this list should be used at all times...the banana for instance should only be used during a carb up and/or a bulk.

DP



OG.....we want to you read this again and tell us what you are going to eat tomorrow...how are you going to change what you're doing to make it work?


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 11, 2003)

Thank You w8...


DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

im going to add 1 table spoon of peanut butter in the 8 am meal, and add 1 egg yolk to my # 2 meal and an apple    and add another 1 table spoon of peanut butter to my protein shake.
now im eating the jiffy's peanut butter. till i try to find natural one. is it ok to eat jiffy's pb now??


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

thank you for all your help! you guys rock!!!!!


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

so when i used to eat 150 grams of carbs or more a day and 15-20 grams of fat .. that diet wouldnt decrease my bf ?


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## Jodi (Jan 11, 2003)

Nope, trust me I use try and eat like that as well and I never lost BF only muscle.  Once I started taking advice from DP and w8 my BF dropped, I get to eat more and I have much more energy.  

I use to think all fat was bad!  Now I get to enjoy my protein shakes with cream, salads with real yummy dressing instead of the FF shit, real eggs everyday with the yolks, steak, hamburgers, and its all good for me.  Also, nut butters, YUMMY!  I'm an addict to peanut butter.  Remeber that your peanut butter should be natural not the crap like Jiff or Skippy.   Thats loaded with sugar.

Trust me on this when I say they know what there talking about.  Listen to them, take their advice, learn as you go.  Remember its a lifestyle not a diet!


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 11, 2003)

thank you for your help! i gotta go now talk to you later!
good night!!!!
( can you give me a meal example for monday??


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## Jodi (Jan 11, 2003)

3 meals 30 P 20 C 10 F
2 meals 30 P 15 C 10 F
1 meal. 30 P 00 C 10 F

According to DP and what he listed above, this may help.  

Meal 1:
4 Egg Whites
2 Whole Eggs
1/3 C. Oats (measured dry)

Meal 2:
30 G. Whey
2 T. Heavy Cream
1 Small Apple

Meal 3:
3.5 oz. Cooked Chicken
2 T. Newmans Balsamic Vinegrette
1/3 C. Brown Rice
3 C. Salad Greens

Meal 4:
1 Can Tuna
1 T. Mayo (full fat)
1/4 C. Sweet Potato
Celery

Meal 5:
4.5 oz. Sirloin Steak
1 T. Natural Peanut Butter
1/4 C. Brown Rice
1 C. Broccoli

Meal 6:
30 G. Whey
2 T. Heavy Cream

Totals: 
Cals:  1620
Fat: 69 G
Carb: 80
Protein: 180

I believe he said he doesn't want you to increase to this yet.  Just work your way up to it.


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## w8lifter (Jan 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by OG *_
> so when i used to eat 150 grams of carbs or more a day and 15-20 grams of fat .. that diet wouldnt decrease my bf ?





> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> Nope, trust me I use try and eat like that as well and I never lost BF only muscle.  Once I started taking advice from DP and w8 my BF dropped, I get to eat more and I have much more energy.



Nope, trust me...I used to eat like that as well and I never lost anything but w8...which included a lot of muscle. Once I started taking advice from DP my BF dropped, I get to eat more and I have much more energy.   

Good job on the meal plan Jodi


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> 
> 
> *I believe he said he doesn't want you to increase to this yet.  Just work your way up to it. *



Most Excellent, Thank you Jodi and w8! 

DP


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## tigress (Jan 12, 2003)

W8, I like your grocery list up there. You should think about cutting and pasting it into a sticky.


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 12, 2003)

ok.. tomorrow monday 1/13/2003

6am- 1/2 cup oatmeal... 1 table spoon peanut butter , maybe mix some protein powder with the oatmeal.
Meal# 1-- 7 am - go to the gym 
            ( do 10 minutes warm up, treadmill! , strech) 
             work on my lower body...walking lunges with weight 6 sets ... about 20-25 reps each set. 
seated calves, standing calves 5 sets of each 12-maxout reps
squats... 
and another machine that i dont know what's called. 
after workout! (maybe 20 minutes after workout 
Meal # 2 ----- 9:30 am protein shake ( mix some nescafe for flavor), less than 1/4 of protein bar (premier). some peanuts! 
Meal # 3 ------ 1Pm 3 egg whites, 1 slice of organic cheese, spinach
Meal # 4 ------ 3:30 pm protein shake, some peanuts
Meal # 5 ----- 6:00 pm chicken breast, 1 cup lettuce, 2 celery, 1 cup brocolli, 1 carrot, vinegar, 1 egg
Meal # 6 ------ 8:00 pm low carb shake ( 25 protein, 3 carbs, 0 fat )
are these good meals???


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 12, 2003)

OG......take out a sheet of paper. Pop Quiz?

Why do we eat fat?  (meals 3,4,5, and 6 are fat deficient!)
Why did you leave it (fat) out of your last meal, what did your meal plan say?

Do we eat carrots?
Do we eat bars?

Is meal 3 complete and according to plan?

Did you mean to pose your questions in w8's Journal after I asked you not to?  To Please do it here?


DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 12, 2003)

whats wrong with meal # 3? i have protein, fat in cheese 
protein bars, i like them!
ok sorry to argue with you.. but whats the lowest fat intake i can have in a day??


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 12, 2003)

I can't help if you keep missing the point....you can't cut ....I gave you a number to hit, and it said 10-12 grams  per meal, you can't eat bars and get the results you're after.

I'm not continuing until you tell me, WHY we eat fat?


DP


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 12, 2003)

3 egg whites is less than 12 grams of protein, 1 slice of a good cheese, if 1 oz has 7-8 P and 5-7 F, spinach doesn't count....you have totally missed the goal.

DP


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> i do cardio twice a week ... 6:30 am is it better to do it on an empty stomach followed by abs workout... ( i would only drink coffee before my cardio) does that really help burn bodyfat faster??



Coffee can liberate more FFA (free fatty acids), but it also affects Glucose disposal negatively.....search caffiene here at IM...use my or w8's name, reread the posts on cardio....they are in the Cutting Starts Here general forum.....Cardio can burn LBM.

DP


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## kuso (Jan 12, 2003)

Lovely edit....your true colours are begining to show though.


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## butterfly (Jan 12, 2003)

Hey OC  

Glad you decided to join us all here at IM!!!

You should keep listening to DP & w8 and also members like Gopro, Twin Peak, and Fade... they know their stuff.  But you sound like a complete beginner at all this so let me see if I can help you understand a couple of things.

About fat... there are bad fats  and good fats  

Bad fats are like bacon grease, mayo, pizza... these are all saturated fats.

Good fats are flax seed oil, egg yolks, natural peanut butter, cottage cheese, certain nuts in small amounts like almonds, walnuts, pecans, etc.

When you see low fat foods they are NOT talking about the kind of fat that gets stored on your body.  They are talking about the kind of fats that are bad for your heart.  So like DP said, don't be afraid of good fats.

The goal is to re-adjust your metabolism so it's burning good fats and stored body fats for energy instead of carbs.  You need all the protein to gain muscle.  

Stay away from the type of sugar that is in candy bars, Jiffy Peanut Butter, white bread, etc.  If you're not sure about something, ASK!  Your body will burn these types of sugars first before the stored fat that is already on your body.

Two VERY important facts that you should never forget...

1. You must have a good resistance training program to build muscle... you want muscle because the more muscle you have the more calories your body will burn.

2. Muscle weighs more then fat... so don't depend on the scale to tell you how you are doing.  Look in the mirror and see if you like the results of your hard work.

Take your stats and check them as you reach each goal.  If you are doing everything DP & w8 are saying you will definitely see results!  And there is no better encouragement to keep it all up then to see the results of your hard work when you look into that mirror. 

Good Luck!


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 12, 2003)

thanx Ann. 
DP i dont understand what you meant about coffee and the glucose???


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 12, 2003)

Good post Ann.....and what I think you're saying (it was all good)..is that a pound of fat is less dense, not weighs less than a pound of muscle..great point about the scale! 

We do disagree a tiny bity on the fat, SF being OK in low insulin space, trans and cis fats being bad.

OG.......Don't worry about the coffee, the point was to acquaint yourself with the 'Search Feature" up above....the coffee or no coffee agrument is a personal choice  (you asked a question, so I tried to answer, it is good and bad).....there is much info there (in the search).

DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 12, 2003)

so is it better to do cardio early in the morning on an empty stomach? ( to lose some body fat?)


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 12, 2003)

We use Nutrition to  lose BF......Cardio to raise the metabolism and as a last resort we do more cardio at the cost of precious LBM..it matters less when (time of day)

Please read:

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=14233

DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 13, 2003)

thank you... DP, on your shopping list, you dont have lettuce.. is that ok to eat lettuce ??? 
you know how im supposed to eat 10-12 grams of fat in each meal,, is it ok to eat almonds or peanuts, natural pb for my fat intake source in almost all my meals throughout the day??? how many almonds that adds up to 10 grams of fat??? and peanuts as well???


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## w8lifter (Jan 13, 2003)

Yes...lettuce is good...preferably a dark green lettuce.

It's okay to use nuts and peanut butter in one or two meals...but not all of them....You can use egg yolks, full fat mayonnaise, flax seed oil, olive oil, heavy cream, and newmans salad dressing as alternate fat sources.

check out www.fitday.com you have to register but it's a good database of foods, it will tell you the breakdowns of foods.


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 13, 2003)

It does say romaine lettuce, but it should say Greens, thank you!

It also says: 

 heavy whipping cream (35% ....NOT whipped cream the dessert topping)
olive oil
safflower oil
flax seed oil
walnut oil
almonds
walnuts
natural sugar-free peanut butter

....As some of the fat sources...also yolks, meats, dressing and safflower mayo all have fat!  Please don't get in the trap/addiction of eating nuts and nut butters.  They're OK if you can stop...and use them for NO MORE TAHN 1-2 meals a day! 

Please find and read info on EFA's (Essential Fatty Acids) here on the site at IM....that will help you a lot 

DP


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 13, 2003)

Another GMTA w8...but you type faster LOL 

DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 13, 2003)

thank you for the fast reply... i dont like egg yolks ... so you said i can eat almonds in one of my meals... and peanuts in the other meal. and the other 3 meals i need other fat source??? i can't have 5 meals of nuts fat source??? chicken, tuna, protein shake that i have are low fat! like 2-4 grams of fat only and i need at least 10 grams ...


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> thank you for the fast reply... i dont like egg yolks ... so you said i can eat almonds in one of my meals... and peanuts in the other meal. and the other 3 meals i need other fat source??? i can't have 5 meals of nuts fat source??? chicken, tuna, protein shake that i have are low fat! like 2-4 grams of fat only and i need at least 10 grams ...



I just posted 10 or more fat sources....I deeply suggest you don't have nuts in 5 meals...and that you DON'T get only 2-4 grams with your protein. 


OG....nut's are calorically dense..there is more there than just fat...there are  a lot of calories and often sodium.....just read more, find some fat, and you will lose sone BF! 


DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 13, 2003)

thank you.. what you mean (dont get 2-4 grams with protein?)
i usually mix some nuts with my protein shake... 
so i can only have one table spoon of natural pb a day 
and let say almonds... how many almonds can i eat in one serving as a fat source?? and how many grams would that be??
the other 3 meals i need to find other fat source ...
the heavy whiped cream i dont know where to find it..
one of my meals im gonna try to eat 1 egg yolk
so i got 2 meals left for fat source..
DP, can my fat source in each meal be under 10 grams??


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## Jodi (Jan 13, 2003)

Why did I bother helping you with a meal plan the other day and last night in Live Chat.  The suggestions I gave (and others last night in Chat) and DP and w8 have given, should have given you enough choices.  I'm sorry OG but we can't come and cook your meals for you!


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## w8lifter (Jan 13, 2003)

Ok..OG....I don't know about DP...but I am DONE here. I will not help anymore until and unless you start listening. You are wasting everyone's time!

Everyone has told you that a low fat diet is NOT the way to lose fat, DP has discussed body composition, if you only want to lose weight and are not worried about losing muscle mass then you are at the wrong board. No one is going to give you a diet that goes against retaining lean body mass. You are far too concerned w/ losing weight and losing it fast. YOU WILL NEVER GET TO 14% IF YOU CONTINUE EATING THE WAY YOU ARE. 

Do you understand that?

If you want more help you need to tell me, as DP asked above, why we eat fat, and why it's bad to lose weight instead of fat!


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 13, 2003)

OG....you can have whatever you want.....if you would like our suggestions, which have been consistantly not to get under 10 grams...then you need to reread our posts please, the fat sources listed, the url w8 gave you for info...and use the search for EFA's 

You see, we have told/suggested/given direction...etc..........you need to...... going forward,...... be in charge of your health and your nutrition....which means learning what options/choices  you have w/food and fat supplements... Just like you study in school, we need you to do a little more homewrk here..so that when we give you information, you can more adequately use it, K? 

We can't do much more than we have.....if someone is out there and wishes to intervine, please do.


Good Night 

DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 13, 2003)

i am following what you guys been telling me! i cut down my carbs from 150 down to 70 - 80 .. increased my fat from 20 up to 50- 60 a day.. but the fat im eating most of it from nuts and i asked Dp if thats ok and he said he doesnt recommend it. but i really dont like egg yolk, and i dont know where to get the whipping cream ...


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_
> 
> 
> It also says:
> ...



There is a lot more than  heavy cream which you buy in a supermaket (5 grams of fat per T and .5 to .7 C, make sure it has no sugar added)

OG....Look at all of the fat sources, use variety......butter, oil based dressings (Newman's), safflower mayo, all of the above....esp flax oil (bought in a health food store)


DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 13, 2003)

ok 2 meals i can use nuts as fat source
     2 meals i can use heavy cream as fat source 
     1 meal i can use yolk 
is that ok now??? 
if i make a protein pudding 
25 grams of protein..... 11 carbs, 11 fat 
would that be considerd as one meal??? (even though it sounds as a dessert??
one last question for tonight... you said my carb intake can be 70 - 80 grams a day.. when can i carb up? and how much can i carb up?? and when do i carb down?? less than 60 ???


----------



## Dr. Pain (Jan 13, 2003)

You don't need to carb on 70-80...we may give you a cheat meal after a while.  Pudding is a meal, but.....

Why are you getting 25 P when we asked you to get 30?



> 1540 calories
> 
> 180 P
> 70 C
> ...



We will change your program when you have been consistant for a few weeks....3-5 weeks.....no need for you to worry about that now...we are resetting your compromised metabolism.


DP


----------



## Dr. Pain (Jan 13, 2003)

Reread, see the timetable for changes.

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=14233


----------



## oceangurl01 (Jan 13, 2003)

i added my protein powder, pb to make the pudding 
it came up to 25 
i weight 128 now 1 gram of protein per lb of body weight
thank you DP for all your help tonight and the other days! i know im sure that i will bug you soon ( tomorrow with more questions)


----------



## Jodi (Jan 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> i added my protein powder, pb to make the pudding
> it came up to 25
> i weight 128 now 1 gram of protein per lb of body weight
> thank you DP for all your help tonight and the other days! i know im sure that i will bug you soon ( tomorrow with more questions)



So add another 1/4 scoop to make it 30.  Remember to that all nuts and nut butters have carbs so those carbs need to be figured in your per meal allowance.


----------



## oceangurl01 (Jan 13, 2003)

oh ya im counting the nuts as carbs... thank you though ...
what grocery stores do you buy your whipping cream???


----------



## Jodi (Jan 13, 2003)

Any and every grocery store carries it.  Its in the dairy aisle with the milk and coffee creamers.


----------



## butterfly (Jan 14, 2003)

OC... these guys really are spending a lot of time trying to help you... if you are going to be successful it's going to be up to you!  Do what DP said and spend some time studying all the info you've been given.

YOU are the one that has to choose to study, get smart and apply it to your own eating habits... besides I don't think you'd really want DP cooking your meals for you anyway


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## Jodi (Jan 14, 2003)

No way, it would all taste like flax.  LOL!


----------



## Dr. Pain (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm a gr8 cook, lol  

DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 16, 2003)

you guys know how much carb does 1 teaspoon of nescafe have? (out of the container)


----------



## Dero (Jan 16, 2003)




----------



## oceangurl01 (Jan 16, 2003)

anyone else that knows?? I usually mix 1/2 teaspoon of nescafe with my protein shake and ice to make it as a cold coffee drink (kinda) is that cool??? i do that 2 times a day


----------



## Jodi (Jan 16, 2003)

Look on the package


----------



## CLPgold (Jan 16, 2003)

I abstain from all forms of stimulants and caffeine.  My system cannot tolerate them.  

I'm definitely not gonna argue about the protein bars cuz DP and w8 know my fixation with them.  But their advise is sound and true, so if you're looking for results.  Listen up.  Just put to practice what they've laid out for you for a few weeks and see how your body responds.  No ifs and or buts.  Follow it and see for yourself.  After you see results, maybe they'll let you treat yourself


----------



## Freeman (Jan 16, 2003)

I would just use coffee grounds if you need it.


----------



## Jodi (Jan 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> anyone else that knows?? I usually mix 1/2 teaspoon of nescafe with my protein shake and ice to make it as a cold coffee drink (kinda) is that cool??? i do that 2 times a day



I use 1 tsp. Instant Decaf.  It adds the flavor but without the caffeine.


----------



## Freeman (Jan 16, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> I use 1 tsp. Instant Decaf.  It adds the flavor but without the caffeine.



true...I WOULD do that, but I've been on a strawberry kick lately..so that doesn't mix well with coffee flavor..

and the only coffee stuff I have now is the left over grounds my mom left last time she was here....it kinda sucks when it gets all gritty doesn't it?


----------



## Jodi (Jan 16, 2003)




----------



## Freeman (Jan 16, 2003)

indeed!


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 18, 2003)

the nescafe that i use doesnt have anything (nutrition label on)


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 18, 2003)

i did so bad yesturda! after my lunch (healthy lunch) i went to the freezer and had chocolate ice cream!! i know thats bad, but my body was craving for it and then i had one small cup cake ......
did that ruin my diet that ive been working on?


----------



## Freeman (Jan 18, 2003)

well, yeah basically.  You can have cheat days, but it's not a good idea to START off your diet by cheating, you'll never get anywhere!


----------



## w8lifter (Jan 18, 2003)

Yep...but just try to do better, get right back on your healthy diet


----------



## oceangurl01 (Jan 18, 2003)

i am back on my health diet.. its just that day i went bad!  
is it ok to eat broccli and celery  10 minutes before going to bed??


----------



## oceangurl01 (Jan 18, 2003)

DP, what you mean eating 25 almonds is already cheating?


----------



## Freeman (Jan 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> i am back on my health diet.. its just that day i went bad!
> is it ok to eat broccli and celery  10 minutes before going to bed??




I would say to try to eat some fatfree cottage cheese or something like that..


----------



## w8lifter (Jan 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> DP, what you mean eating 25 almonds is already cheating?




It wasn't part of a full meal...it was a snack in between meals...snacking is a no-no


----------



## Freeman (Jan 19, 2003)

Listen to the fitness-goddess oceangurl, she'll show you the way!


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 19, 2003)

fat-free cottage cheese i love it!!!! i used to eat it everyday! now i dont, because  its just like a bananna only eat it on carb up day right w8 , DP? or can i eat it today after my cardio? (only do cardio 20 minutes once a week) i used to do cardio 5-6 times a week!!!


----------



## w8lifter (Jan 19, 2003)

Actually OG....it's best not to snack....just try to stick to your regular meals....if you were hungry before bed then consider adding more veggies to your last meal.

You're right OG...cottage cheese on a cut isn't the best....but a half-cup on your carb up day won't be too bad if it keeps you on the rest of your meal plan w/o cheating ...for right now....


----------



## oceangurl01 (Jan 19, 2003)

so you recommend 1/2 apple and protein shake (post workout meal) only cardio today! or just cottage cheese?

another question: my protein powder contains 2 grams of fat and 3 grams of carbs and 22 grams of protein.. do you recommend of adding 1 tbsp of cream (no carb) to my shake for more fat source??
and when should i eat my oatmeal, before or after my weight training?? 1/3 cup with one scoop of protein powder


----------



## w8lifter (Jan 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> so you recommend 1/2 apple and protein shake (post workout meal) only cardio today! or just cottage cheese?
> 
> *As I said above...I suggest cottage cheese only on your carb up day. I don't know what day that is. Remember meal composition....you never have just cottage cheese or just 1/2 an apple w/ protein....you need fat too. Eithr would be ok, personally, I'd go w/ the protein and apple, and throw in some cream or flax for fat*
> ...


----------



## Freeman (Jan 19, 2003)

nice, I like the new avatar w8!


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 19, 2003)

thanx w8! so, apple, cottage cheese, bananna, oatmeal and brown rice are only allowed on carb up days? and thats only 2 times a week


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 19, 2003)

You have NO carb-up days until we tweak you OG......not where we set your carbs! 


DP


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## w8lifter (Jan 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> thanx w8! so, apple, cottage cheese, bananna, oatmeal and brown rice are only allowed on carb up days? and thats only 2 times a week




No no no....I meant apple and cottage cheese in an earlier meal....not w/ the carb up.

But I guess no carb up till your tweak


----------



## oceangurl01 (Jan 19, 2003)

so i can eat apple and cottage cheese on any day i want? 
what you mean till i tweak?


----------



## w8lifter (Jan 19, 2003)

OG....wanna post what you ate yesterday?


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## w8lifter (Jan 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> so i can eat apple and cottage cheese on any day i want?
> what you mean till i tweak?




No...what were we saying earlier? You asked if you could have cottage cheese...I said not really, but if you wanted to have it on a carb up day, once a week (not in your carb up meal) it would be okay assuming you didn't cheat the rest of the week.

A tweak is a slight change in your diet....it keeps progress coming and keeps your body guessing so it continues fat loss.


----------



## oceangurl01 (Jan 19, 2003)

so when my body get used to a low carb for 3 days in a row and the forth day is carb up thats when fat loss comes?


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## Freeman (Jan 19, 2003)

oceangurl, how old are you?


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 19, 2003)

20


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> so when my body get used to a low carb for 3 days in a row and the forth day is carb up thats when fat loss comes?



NO, we are trying to make fat loss a continous  event...reread carb/ups, tweaks and fat loss please...

And your program DOES NOT HAVE carb-ups yet!

DP


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 19, 2003)

OG..you NEED to post your meals on a daily basis.....because as far as we know..you are not getting this.  I am not saying this to be mean.......I 'm saying if you want help  understanding the fat loss process.......we need to "show" you what you are doing wrong or right......

DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 19, 2003)

what if im doing 30-40 carbs on sun,mon,tues,thurs,fri and 50-60 carbs on wed and sat????


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## w8lifter (Jan 19, 2003)

*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *
i usually have 2 protein drinks a day.. 
now i might have 1.5 scoop with cream in the morning before school. and have an half an apple and nuts (almonds) after school while driving to the gym. and 1.5 scoop of protein while working out. and after workout, I'll have tuna or chicken breast with lots of green veggies. before going to bed i would have 4 egg white and one whole.. or isopure protein shake (low carb) and some cream or almonds. 
is that ok????


----------



## oceangurl01 (Jan 19, 2003)

thank you w8!


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## w8lifter (Jan 19, 2003)

OG...see how I arrange my meals into *meal 1*  and *Meal 2* etc.....w/ serving sizes and times.....can you re write your meals from yesterday in that format please?


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> what if im doing 30-40 carbs on sun,mon,tues,thurs,fri and 50-60 carbs on wed and sat????



What if your plan says to do 70 a day? 


DP


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Dr. Pain *_


*You don't need to carb on 70-80...we may give you a cheat meal after a while*

Why are you getting 25 P when we asked you to get 30?



> 1540 calories
> 
> 180 P
> 70 C
> ...



*We will change your program when you have been consistant for a few weeks....3-5 weeks.....no need for you to worry about that now...we are resetting your compromised metabolism.*


----------



## Dr. Pain (Jan 19, 2003)

That is the 4th  time for that to be posted.....

OG....you are screwing up......allowing your macronutrients and calories to go too low.....we will not be able to tweak you....or help you further....you will stall!

DP


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## Jodi (Jan 20, 2003)

> as i stated in other threads, i have to be at school on mondays from 7:30 am - 9:30 pm do you have any meal plans for me? i usually when im at home or work i eat tuna, chicken and brown rice and all that good stuff. but when im at school i cant take that with me.. anything i can eat or get from the store?



I don't understand why you can't open a can of tuna and mix it with some mayo and put it in a tupperware.  Or put chicken and veggies in a tupperware and bring them to school.  What do you think everyone does here when they are at school or work?


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## Jodi (Jan 20, 2003)

Another thing OG, you should schedule your meals to be eating in between classes.  Get yourself a little cooler and right before your next class open up your tupperware of tuna and eat it.  Bring raw veggies as well.


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## Freeman (Jan 21, 2003)

TRUE!  My girl Jodi knows what's up mudafukas!  

I love this girl!


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 21, 2003)

ok got the tuna and the chicken anything else?


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 21, 2003)

what other fruits and veggies can i have ?


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## Freeman (Jan 21, 2003)

broccoli is good...I like apples, but I don't know the details of your diet, so don't listen to me much!


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 21, 2003)

thanks for the reply... i think im just gonna have a problem with that one day of the week where im gonna have to be at school from AM - PM ( i have no food plans)


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## Freeman (Jan 21, 2003)

try and bring some tupperware with good food in it....


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## w8lifter (Jan 22, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> what other fruits and veggies can i have ?




OG....why do you ask the same questions over and over....read the shopping list that has been posted for you several times! It tells you what you can eat, including fruits and veggies!

The best thing to do is get yourself a little insulated cooler you can bring to school w/ you....pack it w/ several meals and you're good to go.


----------



## P-funk (Jan 22, 2003)

> thanks for the reply... i think im just gonna have a problem with that one day of the week where im gonna have to be at school from AM - PM ( i have no food plans)



tuna fish
harboiled eggs
protien powder and a bottle of water
if you are in college and your school cafeteria serves coffee( I'm sure they do) you can bring protien powder, buy a bottle of water and get some heavy cream from the coffee station.
apple
nuts
the possibilities are endless.

I am at work all day so I cook all my meals in the morning and throw them into plastic containers and eat them through out the day.  It isn't that hard.


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 22, 2003)

thank man that helped!


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 22, 2003)

i eat lots of green salad (add tuna or chicken with it) is it ok to add vinegar into my salad? or is there carb in it???
what about tofu ? is ok to eat


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## Freeman (Jan 23, 2003)

ewww, ok, I used to be vegan so I would only eat tofu.  I am not gonna lie, it wasn't that good.  So, if you do eat meat (chicken, fish, etc.) why it a shitty substitute?!?  uke:


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## Freeman (Jan 23, 2003)

oops I meant


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## w8lifter (Jan 23, 2003)

Vinegar is awesome to add ....try apple cider vinegar or balsamic vinegar.


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 23, 2003)

i love having my wonderful salad! i can eat it everyday and not get tired of it! 
chicken breast
lettuce (lots of lettuce !!!! i love it)
broccli 
celery 
green beans
parmasion cheese 1 table spoon 
lots of apple vinegar 
garlic powder

(steam all veggies and chicken together + except for the lettuce )
then mix with lettuce and add some olives and parmasion cheese, vinegar 
try it its yummy!!!!! (you can make it with eggs intstead of chicken)


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## w8lifter (Jan 23, 2003)

Sounds yummy OG


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 23, 2003)

Sounds better w/flax oil! 

DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 23, 2003)

ill try that too! 
is it ok to eat half a head of lettuce a day?? or thats too much ?
canned sardines ok to eat?? the nutrition value per can is: 21 protein, 3 fat, 3 carb, 3 fiber 
can i eat two cans for a meal with some green veggies to add it up to more than 30 grams of protein???


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 23, 2003)

Yes, Not too much, more if you want, Yes, and  Yes  

DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 23, 2003)

i can eat one full head of lettuce and broccli as much as i want ???
but dont they have some carbs in them too?? i know we dont add greens carbs, but why not ?? ( i know they got fiber but its not all fiber)
one cup of coffee, does it have carbs???


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 23, 2003)

Limit Brocoli and other "green" veggies to 1 1/2  to 2 cups per meal...greens as in lettuce/salads are unlimited, don't worry why we don't count them......

No carbs in coffee, search the word here my name or w8's  for pro's and con's 

DP


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 23, 2003)

search for what? search where?


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 26, 2003)

im sorry, but if it has 3 grams of carbs and no sugar and lots of protein, why can i use it? there is the hot cereal has 12 grams of fiber and 3 grams of carbs and no sugar, is that ok?? oats got more carbs than keto and the rest of atkins cereals? can you guys explain to me why?


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## Dr. Pain (Jan 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> search for what? search where?



Coffee..up above, use  the search feature, HERE at IM 

DP


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## w8lifter (Jan 26, 2003)

First...when asked to search....that means here...there's a search button at the top....user name w8lifter or Dr. Pain....lots of info in nutrition for you....pick a word  and search.

Like now...you could search the word "soy" because that's what's in keto-crisps. OG....once in a while is going to be okay....but you can't eat that as a regular part of your meals....another search term: "sugar alcohols".

It's still a processed food, despite it being low carb....we're going for optimal health and lifestyle eating ....not a diet!


----------



## Dr. Pain (Jan 26, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> im sorry, but if it has 3 grams of carbs and no sugar and lots of protein, why can i use it? there is the hot cereal has 12 grams of fiber and 3 grams of carbs and no sugar, is that ok?? oats got more carbs than keto and the rest of atkins cereals? can you guys explain to me why?



Slow cooking oats are different!  It's not about the carbs....often the CARBS are on purpose to regulate your thyroid and your metabolism! 

DP

http://www.lifeservives.com


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 27, 2003)

keto wont be my everyday meall! i just wanna try it and maybe have it once or twice  a week thats all


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 30, 2003)

meal # 1     1 1/2 protein powder, whipping cream


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## w8lifter (Jan 30, 2003)

Put serving sizes too  (how much cream?)


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 30, 2003)

meal # 1     1 1/2 protein powder, whipping cream   
                     33 p, 10 f, 5 c
workout------

meal # 2       shrimp ( microwave) spinach, olive oil
                      30 p, 13 f, 1 c from spinach
meal # 3       fish fillet, lots of lettuce, apple vinegar, spices, 
                     more shrimp, olive oil
                     30 p, 13 f, 0 c (is there any carb of what im eating)
meal # 4       gensoy protien powder, 0 fat 0 carb 25 p
                     whipped cream
                     25 p, 0 carb, 10 fat

is that ok ?????


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## Jodi (Jan 30, 2003)

wheres the slow burning carbs that you are suppose to be having?


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## Freeman (Jan 30, 2003)

w8, don't you think she needs a post-workout shake?


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## oceangurl01 (Jan 31, 2003)

jodi, i would have oatmeal, apple, and other slow burning carbs only twice a week in one meal. 
like saturday i might add oatmeal or apple into my # 2 meal


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## butterfly (Jan 31, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> meal # 2       shrimp ( microwave) spinach, olive oil
> 30 p, 13 f, 1 c from spinach
> meal # 3       fish fillet, lots of lettuce, apple vinegar, spices,
> ...



Are those fresh fish fillets, frozen, or what???


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 1, 2003)

ya they frozen. and microwavable.......


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## Freeman (Feb 1, 2003)

not the best choice.  try to get fresh fish...and if you don't have time to cook it, try making it the night before or earlier in the week..cook a bunch at once and then wrap and refrigerate the rest.


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 1, 2003)

i  know... i dont always eat them! im usually eating shrimp, sardines, tuna, chicken breast, turkey


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 9, 2003)

ok, my meals for today! sunday ( no workout)

meal # 1  3 egg whites and 2 yolk
                lean ham (turkey) 
                cooked liver
                1/2 serving of peanuts (shell)

meal # 2 protein shake, whipping cream

meal # 3 1 canned tuna, olive oil (some celery)

meal # 4 chicken, lettuce, celery, broccli

total: protein ~ 117 grams 
          carbs~  16 grams (not counting the veggies)
          fat~    55 grams 

my carbs are low because i didnt go to the gym today!


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 9, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> ok, my meals for today! sunday ( no workout)
> 
> meal # 1  3 egg whites and 2 yolk
> ...



That's only 1027 calories....way too low...and although "what" you are eating has gr8ly improved since you have been here....

...your metabolism Wiil NOT if you eat this way.

And when you have "bigger eating days"....your body will want to "store fat" because it thinks you are going to starve it again!

JMHO 


DP


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 9, 2003)

so what should i add to my meals???


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 9, 2003)

meal # 4 i had another serving of peanuts


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 9, 2003)

my meals for tomorrow

meal # 1  1 scoop protein shake, cream (whipping cream) before school.
meal # 2 2 serving of tofu cheese
               3 egg whites, 1 yolk
               celery
meal # 3 1 scoop protein shake, cream (whipping cream) 30 minutes before i finish my workout 

meal # 4 1 can tuna, 1 slice fat-free cheese (melted)
                  1/2 serving peanuts (shelled) 
                   lots of veggies (green) with vinegar
                   7 small olives = 1 gram of carb, 1 gram of fat


 have starbucks coffee or some tea from starbucks

p ~  101  
c ~  16 ( veggies not included) and starbucks not included... no carbs in plain coffee or tea right????
f ~ 55 

my workout ~~~ lower body
                            walking lunges ( 6 sets) with 10lbs weight
                            seated calves (5 sets)
                            standing calves  (5 sets)
                            3 other machines i dont know what they called ( 5 sets each) 

work on ABS 
lower ( 5 sets) 20 reps 
upper (5 sets) 40-50 reps
and some of the excersie ball


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## w8lifter (Feb 10, 2003)

Eat MORE of what you're eating...cause now you're eating the right foods...just not enough. And add some carbs!

If you posted serving sizes it would be much easier to help you!

We can't tell you how much more cream to have if we don't know what you're having now.


----------



## Dr. Pain (Feb 10, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> Dr. Pain, you saw my meals and you said thats too low!
> my carb intake is low now! what happens if i have 50-70 grams of carbs 2 times a week? would that make me gain weight back??
> ( at the 50-70 carbs day i would have apple, oatmeal, brown rice)





IT'S NOT ABOUT WEIGHT! It's about Body Compostion! 




> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> OG  You are not getting enough calories...THAT is what is making you fat.....not 70 g of slow burning carbs a day!!!
> 
> Apple, oatmeal, brown rice are all good carbs....please add them to your meals *every day* and start eating for *Health* and you may just start losing fat! You should be concerned that you're not feeding your body enough food....it's only eating away at your muscles when you do that!



OG....this has to be done gradually, and you need a fifth meal ASAP, you are slowing your thyroid function and your ability to BURN fat......you will add 2-4 pounds, but it will NOT be fat...it will be water from additional glycogen.

You are in the same position as when you got here.....'Compromised Metabolism"...We can not proceed because your calories ARE TOO LOW...and we have NOWHERE TO GO!

You will notice in w8's journal....I asked her to reply to you....because it is too frutrating for me...YOU DO NOT LISTEN.....had you done the first program I designed for you (individually, and only for you) you'd be in the midddle of your Second Program right now (First tweak) and losing Fat 

And you'd be at 1500 plus calories, and have room for two more adjustments over the following 6-10 weeks.  Now...as I have said....you have *"nowhere to go"* except starvation levels....which will tell your body to "Store fat" when ever food is in abundance (like a cheat...or even a higher calorie day), and deplete LBM because it is too costly on the body because of the limeted fuel you are consuming.

OG.....You need to go back and reread evertything since you came...for content and comprehension!

You have the option of doing things your way, or however you like, but I will not be talking w/you again until your calories are at least 10 per pound of BW for 5-7 days...then 11 for another 5-7 days, and then 12!

Your protein needs to be increased also, you need to post water....and get at least 5 meals.


Good Luck 


DP


----------



## oceangurl01 (Feb 11, 2003)

ok ill try this again:

meal # 1 3 egg whites, 1 whole, cream cheese, 1 serving peanuts 

meal # 2 protein shake,whipping cream, 1/2 apple (post workout)

meal # 3 tuna, cheese, broccoli, lettuce, celery, califlower, olive oil, olives

meal # 4 shrimp soup! (shrimp, spinach, olive oil)

meal # 5 im not sure what to eat!!!! any suggestions????


----------



## tigress (Feb 11, 2003)

You still aren't posting your serving sizes. Or your totals. Why don't you sign up for 

www.fitday.com 

and start logging your food there?


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 11, 2003)

1 serving of cream cheese
the veggies were 2 serving each! 
shrimp 2 servings
1 can tuna
1 teaspoon of olive oil
7 olives


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 11, 2003)

you know how im down to 20-30 carbs a day! would i gain weight if i add 1/3 cup oatmeal or apple to my 20-30 carbs (daily??


----------



## w8lifter (Feb 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> you know how im down to 20-30 carbs a day! would i gain weight if i add 1/3 cup oatmeal or apple to my 20-30 carbs (daily??




OMG!!!!!!




> Originally posted by w8lifter
> OG  *You are not getting enough calories...THAT is what is making you fat.....not 70 g of slow burning carbs a day!!!*
> 
> *Apple, oatmeal, brown rice are all good carbs....please add them to your meals every day* and start eating for Health and you may just start losing fat! You should be concerned that you're not feeding your body enough food....it's only eating away at your muscles when you do that!


----------



## Stacey (Feb 11, 2003)

GEEZ ARE YOU Illiterate????????????????


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## P-funk (Feb 11, 2003)

I'm sorry I shouldn't laugh but it is just to damn funny.  OG, everyday I see you ask the same question about your diet in every forum (even the training forum!!!!???).  Why don't you listen to everyone for once.  In all honesty I can't believe w8 and DP still help you.  I would have completely lost it a long time ago.


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## Stacey (Feb 11, 2003)

LoL!

All I have to say is W8 & DP Have a lot of patients for this chick!


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## butterfly (Feb 11, 2003)

But w8... how is not getting enough calories making me fat


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by butterfly *_
> But w8... how is not getting enough calories making me fat



The body's metabolism will slow to match the calorie deficiency  (also compromising thyroid fuction),.... and if weight loss does not completely slow or  stall out, when BW is lost....the body will preferentially choose LBM over fat.  It will sacrifice the LMB as that takes *calories, as in FOOD* to preserve and maintain.

You see every pound of LBM can burn 30-50 calories a day.  Fat requires very little energy to maintain.......if you starve the body.....not only will it hold on the fat stores to endure this *famine*....when calories are increased.....it will ADD to those fat stores to ensure survival throughout the next famine.

The triple Whammy is that the lost LBM....for those concerned with weight loss, instead of FAT LOSS, would have burned the "extra" calories, possibly BF calories had you not sacrificed it! JMHO


DP


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## butterfly (Feb 11, 2003)

Didn't you see the  after that DP...

Or did you want to answer the question b/c you KNEW she'd ask it for real???


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## Jodi (Feb 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Princess *_
> LoL!
> 
> All I have to say is W8 & DP Have a lot of patients for this chick!



I would say they have had more than enough patience with OG!  This goes on everyday and everyday DP & w8 answer her and then the next day she asks again.   

 I would  go out of   my fuqing mind!  

I give DP & w8 alot of credit for helping people out like this for free!


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 11, 2003)

Here is a classic and true example, just happened today

C= Customer 5'3" 140 pounds....est 20-22% BF
DP = me

C:  Do you have a Product called X-Rated Maximim Definition Formula

DP:  No, you can't get Maximim definition with a pill

C:  Well I get 2 hours of cardio everyday and eat healthy but I'm not able to lose any weight, I'm going on a cruise in one month and have to lose before it

So at this point we talk about thermos...and I start to explain Nutrition and sensible exercise to her 

DP: How long have you been doing this much cardio

C:  Years

DP:  Is it working?

C: No

DP: What was you Healthy Breakfast?  (I had first asked her how many times a day she ate.......and she didn't know...lol....finally said 2 to 3

C:  Oatmeal

DP: Slow cooked or instant  

C: Instant

DP: What else?

C: Nothing

So I explain a few things to her at this point...and then

DP:  What did you have for lunch

C:  Well I haven't had lunch yet (It was 2 PM)
I will probably have some chicken

So I explain how this is setting up fat storage....no matter what she eats

DP: Dinner?

C: She didn't answer........said it varies

DP:  So you're barely eating, doing 2 hours a day of cardio. Is it working?

C: NO?  

DP:  You need to do some resistance training and decrease cardio, increase meal frequency gradually...etc..whole speech

C:  Oh I do resistance training too...EVERYDAY...upper body then lower body then  repeat...oh I take Sundays off and just do cardio

DP: how long have you been doing this for?

C: Years

DP: Same W/O 

C; Oh Yes! 

DP: Last time......IS IT WORKING?

C:  um...no


At this point WARLORD and I nicely double teamed her .....she left with a whole new set of ideas which I'd say there is a 90% chance of her ignoring...and being overfat for life and eventually arthritic at an early age 

and this happens every freakin day! 

DP


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## Dr. Pain (Feb 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by butterfly *_
> Didn't you see the  after that DP...
> 
> Or did you want to answer the question b/c you KNEW she'd ask it for real???



Ann, you did sarcasm?  

Damn fooled the hell out of me! 

DP


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## Stacey (Feb 11, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by Jodi *_
> I would say they have had more than enough patience with OG!  This goes on everyday and everyday DP & w8 answer her and then the next day she asks again.
> 
> I would  go out of   my fuqing mind!
> ...



Girl I TOTALLY AGREE W/ you!! I would go NUTS If I were them!! I read her Journal everyday...and I JUST WANT TO SCREAM Everyday..especially when I see her in other sections asking the same crap!!

w8 & DP~ You guys deserve GOLD MEDALS!!!!


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 12, 2003)

you guys are so great!!!!! talking nice things about me


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 12, 2003)

for what im doing my bf went down by 4 % for the past month
so i think im on the right track


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 12, 2003)

Dr. Pain, w8 sorry if I was being pain in the  
i just think if i go down to 30 carbs a day with 1500 cal a day  would be faster for me to get to my results. 

this is my journal and if anyone likes to make any comments on my meals or workout plans they are welcome..... 


2/13/03 

5:30 am     meal # 1  1/3 cup of oatmeal, mixed with whipped 
                                   cream and 1 scoop of protein powder 

6:00 am ( go to the gym and work on my lower body and ABS) 

9:30 am    meal # 2 1 scoop protein powder, whipping cream, 
                                 2 celery 
1:00 pm   meal # 3   4 ounces salmon (baked) ,salad (fresh: spinach, broccoli, lettuce, other greens) 
( meal # 3 will be at a natural organic restraunt)

5:00 pm meal # 4 pork veal (cooked), more veggies from home

   total : (so far) protein = 103 
                          carb= 30
                          fat= 59


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## w8lifter (Feb 12, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> 
> 
> If you posted serving sizes it would be much easier to help you!
> ...





> _*Originally posted by w8lifter *_
> Put serving sizes too  (how much cream?)



HOW MUCH CREAM ARE YOU USING!!



> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> i just think if i go down to 30 carbs a day with 1500 cal a day would be faster for me to get to my results.



OG....do you understand that you're not even getting 1500 calories per day? You're getting between 1000-1200. It's too low.



> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> for what im doing my bf went down by 4 % for the past month
> so i think im on the right track



Just imagine how much you'd drop if you listened the first time!


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## Freeman (Feb 12, 2003)

How are you measuring your bf%   ???


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 12, 2003)

the cream that im getting about 10 grams of fat 
the calories thatyou guys are saying im taking between 1000- 1200 . its not! im eating lots of lettuce and broccli that adds calories too and im not posting that (because it doesnt count as a meal) (i snack  on veggies all the time) 

at the gym that i go to.... they check your bf %


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## Freeman (Feb 12, 2003)

do they use calipers?  or one of those electronic scales?


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## w8lifter (Feb 12, 2003)

But OG...it doesn't count be cause IT DOESN'T COUNT! Veggies, while good for you and essential....are not enough...we don't even add the veggies to our counts. You need to start consuming more food, in addition to the veggies your eating.


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## Freeman (Feb 12, 2003)

...a quick aside:  w8, you're looking damn good.  pic is awesome!  Keep up the good work, and if you ever compete down in Florida, let me know, I'll come cheer for ya! 

OG, I think w8 knows what she's talking about here.


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 13, 2003)

ok. ill try to change.. i changed my meals since i joined 
i think its the electronic that they use at the gym.


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## Freeman (Feb 13, 2003)

well, OG, the electronic scales that are used to "measure" BF% are crap.  You need to get tested using calipers..


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 13, 2003)

what are the calipers?


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## Freeman (Feb 13, 2003)

Ummm, I don't know if there is a link to them somewhere on this site.  But basically they're these little tools that measure your BF by taking measurements on your skin at different places on your body....if someone has some pics on here, help me out.


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 13, 2003)

thats what they use! and they electronic


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## Freeman (Feb 13, 2003)

ok, well I asked if they use those electronic scales.  The ones you step on....sorry for the confusion.


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## w8lifter (Feb 13, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by freeman1504 *_
> Ummm, I don't know if there is a link to them somewhere on this site.  But basically they're these little tools that measure your BF by taking measurements on your skin at different places on your body....if someone has some pics on here, help me out.





http://www.bodytrends.com/creharp.htm?AID=890269&PID=748676


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## Freeman (Feb 13, 2003)

Ok, awesome.  Now w8, just buy it for me and I'll REALLY  think you're the greatest!


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 13, 2003)

no, i dont step on anything! they use calipers just like you said! 
is it true its better not to drink my protein shake before my morning workout? 
i usually have my shake pre workout
then after workout ill have a high protein meal with fat and some carbs


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## Freeman (Feb 13, 2003)

IMO, shakes are great for post workout, but you don't need anything to slow down absorption because your muscles need the protein right away.  I eat a meal before my workout and then have a post w/o shake.


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 13, 2003)

i try to have a meal in the morning before my workout, but sometimes i feel like the food is gonna  even though i only simple food that is not too heavy


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## Freeman (Feb 13, 2003)

well, you gotta give yourself time after you eat before you go and work out..I usually give it 45min to an hour, but that's just me


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 13, 2003)

i have a busy schedule ! that means i gotta get up at 5 am so i can let the food to digest


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## butterfly (Feb 18, 2003)

I workout at night so I've already had a few meals before the gym although I don't usually eat right before going to the gym.

I like some kind of protein drink/shake right after my workouts, too.


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## Stacey (Feb 18, 2003)

I do the same thing Butterfly!!!


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## Freeman (Feb 18, 2003)

I do the exact opposite!  I work out early in the morning usually.  My gym is just too damn busy any time after noon.  I hate waiting for things.


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## Stacey (Feb 18, 2003)

Ohh I know, My gym is always packed at night!! I go around 8:30 or 9pm!! And its still crowded!!!! SUX~ But I stay up late w/ the hubby at night, sooo going in the mornings never works out for me!


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## Freeman (Feb 18, 2003)

Up late w/ the hubby eh??  oooh-lala


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## butterfly (Feb 18, 2003)

oh their still newlyweds


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## Freeman (Feb 18, 2003)

yeah, that'll change soon enough, am I right or what?


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## Stacey (Feb 18, 2003)

Nah..your wrong..been married a year now, still stay up late w/ him... Although thats not late for him..since he gets home from work at 10:30pm...


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## butterfly (Feb 18, 2003)

fade and I have been married 6 yrs in April and we are still all lovey dovey


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## Stacey (Feb 18, 2003)

YEAH I ADMIRE YOU TWO!!!!   Thats how I plan to be in 6 years also!! !


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## Freeman (Feb 18, 2003)

Well, that's good to hear.  Gives us single guys hope for whenever we do get married!


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 18, 2003)

freeman, what you eat before your workout? is it true if you have a protein shake before workout it will be used as energy instead of storing muscle?
tomorrow for example : get up 4am have a cup of coffee and hit the gym for 10 minutes cardio and work on ABS (30 minutes) and do another 10 minutes cardio...

Meal # 1  7:00 am  (after cardio) 20 grams protein shake, 1 spoon pb
(((( 23 protein, 6 carbs, 10 fat)))))

Meal # 2  10:00 am ( school) tofu, 2 whole eggs 
(((( 22 protein, 3 carbs, 17 fat)  

Meal # 3 1:00 pm ( while working out) work on upper body, protien shake, 1spoon pb 
((( 23 protein, 6 carbs, 10 fat))))

Meal # 4  4:00 pm ( after workout) 1 can tuna, 2.5 servings grilled veggies, 1 table spoon olive oil, add some spices
((( 32 protein, 0-3 carbs, 16 fat))))

Meal # 5 7:00 pm  1 serving fish filet, egg-less organic mayonesse
  (((( 19 protein, 7 fat, less than 1 carb))))
any comments?????


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## tigress (Feb 19, 2003)

> _*Originally posted by oceangurl01 *_
> Meal # 2  10:00 am ( school) tofu, 2 whole eggs
> (((( 22 protein, 3 carbs, 17 fat)



Where did you get the numbers for the tofu? How is it prepared?


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 19, 2003)

one serving of tofu is 10 grams of protein 
and two whole eggs each 6 grams of protein 
the tofu info was from the label


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## tigress (Feb 19, 2003)

What type of tofu are you eating to get 10g of protein and so few carbs?


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 19, 2003)

the firm tofu! they sell it in grocery stores. Albertson's sell it


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 19, 2003)

i usually drink 5 liters or more (H2O)
Get up at 4 am...  have hot tea or nescafe 

meal # 1   @ 7:00 am  4 egg whites, 1 whole, 1 serving firm tofu 
                               (((( 22 protein, 11 fat, less than 2 carbs ))) i count the carbs in eggs. 
go to the gym @ 8:00am ( work on lower body and abs) 

meal # 2 @ 10:30 am after workout  can tuna, 1 table spoon olive oil, 2 celery stalks 
               (((((( 32 protein, 16.5 fat, 0 carbs))))

meal # 3 @ 1:30 pm whey protein shake, gotta buy more whipping cream.... 12 almonds  
                 (((((( 20 protein, 18 fat, 6 carbs)))))

meal # 4 @ 5:00 pm  1 chicken breast (trader joe's) steamed with broccli, celery, and green onions, and spices.... 
((( 33 protein, 16 fat, 0 carbs)))))

meal # 5 @ 8:00 pm 1 fish filet, some lettuce, 1 table spoon olive oil 
                          (((((( 19 protein, 15 fat, 0 carbs)))) 

protein ~ 126 
carbs ~ 8 
fat~ 58
my carbs are so low, cause my friend's b-day was yesturday and i had to have her b-day cake ... unless she would be upset! ( so im making up on what i ate)


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 22, 2003)

jan 5 my bf% was around 24% .... yesturday i got checked again from my trainer at the gym and my bf % was 19.4% .... after stop eating bread, raisins, milk and all that carbs.... and increasing my protein and fat intake i went down!!! im planing on going to 14% or less... 

today i did'nt workout.. i had to go to work and study for an exam. 

6:00 am  Meal # 1  4 egg whites, 1 yolk, 1 serving tofu. 
  protein 25, carbs 3, fat 11

9:00 am Meal # 2 1 can sardines, 2 celery stalks, 1 table spoon peanuts, 1/2 table spoon olive oil 
  protein 25, carbs 6, fat 16

1:30 pm Meal # 3 steamed veggies (broccli, green onions, green beans, celery with 1 table spoon olive oil) 12 medium size shrimp
1 table spoon parmasion cheese, spices. 
 protein  17  , carb 0 ??? , fat 16

6:00 pm Meal # 4 1 can tuna, 1 small piece fish 19 protein, 1 boiled egg, lettuce, 1 table spoon peanuts, 1/3 table spoon olive oil, 1/2 table spoon organic mayo. 
protein 56  , carb 5, fat 16  

protein:123 
carb: 15
fat: 59

water: 4.5 liter ( i know its bad... i drink 6-7 liters when i workout) 

my meals  in timing werent perfect cause of work!


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 23, 2003)

again today no workout! had to work 

6:30 am Meal # 1 1 whole egg. fried with olive oil! 
                                3 egg whites, 1 slice organic cheese
                                8 ham turkey slices
                                plain hot tea
protein 29, fat 16, carb 4

11:00 am Meal # 2 1 can tuna, 1/2 table spoon olive oil, spices         1 cup lettuce, 1 table spoon organic mayo
 protein 32, fat 11, carb 1

2:15 pm Meal #3 1 table spoon peanuts, 1 scoop protein shake
protein 23, fat 10, carb 7 

5:30 pm Meal # 4 1 chicken breast, 1/1/2 cup broccli (steamed) 2 celery stalks (steamed), 2 green onions (steamed) 1/3 cup green beans (steamed) add spices , 1 table spoon natural peanut butter, 6 almonds.. 

protein 37, fat 24   , carb 8 

water intake about 6 liters .... plus 16 oz with my shake in meal # 3 

total ::::::
protein 121
fat 61
carb 20

any comments???????


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 25, 2003)

2-26-03 

Meal #1(6:30 am) 2 whole eggs, 1 white, 1 organic cheese, 1/2 cup spinach

     19 protein, 11 fat, 4 carbs
Meal # 2 (10:30 am) 1 scoop protein powder, 1 spoon whipping cream, 1/2 tea spoon coffee
       20 protein, 8 fat, 3 carbs

Meal # 3 (1:00 pm) 1/2 low carb bar, ( 1 gram carb, 0 sugar, 0 fiber, 10 protein, 4 fat))), 1 spoon peanuts
13 protein, 5 carbs, 12 fat     ( pre workout meal)

Meal # 4 (4:30 pm) 1 scoop protein shake, 1 spoon whip cream
    20 protein, 8 fat, 3 carbs

Meal # 5 (7:00 pm) 1 can tuna, steamed broccli, celery with 1 spoon olive oil
32 protein, 0 carb, 17 fat

total: 

protein 104
carb ~ 16 
fat~ 55
water~~~~ hopefully 6 liters 

workout: 
 ARMS
 CHEST 
  ABS (upper, lower, side) 
  cardio (20 minutes)


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## oceangurl01 (Feb 25, 2003)

any other suggestions for meal # 3 ???? cant have that evil bar!!!! any suggestion for a little snack meal before my workout??? can i drink protein shake before the workout?


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