# Prohormone cycling



## monster_inc (Oct 8, 2002)

I'm thinking about taking prohormones soon before year ends, maybe Ergopharm 1-AD.  Any recommended cycle like (for maximal/safe results):

How many weeks on?
How many weeks off?

Thanks for the help.


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## ZECH (Oct 8, 2002)

Your best bet is to do short cycles. Longer cycles of 8 weeks is a hard shock to the body and makes recovery harder and longer.
You will be able to keep gains better on short cycles.
Ex., 4 weeks on, 4 off
       4 on 6 off
       4 on 8 off, then repeat.........I think you will like this.
How old are you?


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## ponyboy (Oct 8, 2002)

From what I took from not only Ergopharm, but from other sources who have done cycles of 1-AD you can either:

Do 1 4 week cycle using your amount every day and then cycle off OR
Do a 6 week cycle using your dosage for five days and then taking two days off (which is what I'm doing).  

Either way it's about a 30 day cycle.


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## monster_inc (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> Your best bet is to do short cycles. Longer cycles of 8 weeks is a hard shock to the body and makes recovery harder and longer.
> You will be able to keep gains better on short cycles.
> Ex., 4 weeks on, 4 off
> ...


Almost 22. Thanks for your post.


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## ZECH (Oct 8, 2002)

You really don't want to do 5 days with two days off 
It keeps your body guessing as to weather or not it needs to adjust or not to the hormonal change going on in your body. It's producing test, then stopping....not good! Do a cycle straight through then take a period of time off to let your body recover. And like I said anything over 4 weeks, your body will start to shut down natural test production and it will be harder on you to recover and keep the gains you made(your test will be 0 and before you can get it back up, your gains will be gone).


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## Robboe (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by ponyboy *_
> From what I took from not only Ergopharm, but from other sources who have done cycles of 1-AD you can either:
> 
> Do 1 4 week cycle using your amount every day and then cycle off OR
> ...




Can you show me where you got the guidelines for that latter cycle please?


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## ShaqFu (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> it will be harder on you to recover and keep the gains you made(your test will be 0 and before you can get it back up, your gains will be gone).



That's a really good point. Don't forget to take something like Tribulus on the off-cycle to get your natural test back up again.


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## ZECH (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show me where you got the guidelines for that latter cycle please?



I agree with this.......evidently you are getting some bad info!


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## ponyboy (Oct 8, 2002)

You know what?  I've been searching trying to find where the heck I read that because it made so much sense at the time, plus it would make my supply last longer, which is key because the stuff is damned expensive.  When I decided to do this cycle, I read so much stuff from so many different sources I can't remember where I read that, but I know I did, and it was from a reliable source...the only people I listen to are either seasoned veterans of the business who have experience or people who have proven their knowledge through research and article/book writing.  

I'm going to keep looking, but in the meantime can anyone give me a concrete explanation (scientific) as to why this would NOT work?  If you manipulate your test levels in this fashion, what will it affect?  TCD, I'm hoping you can tell me something.


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## Arnold (Oct 8, 2002)

I doubt if pro-hormones will do much for you at 22 years of age.


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## Robboe (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by ponyboy *_
> You know what?  I've been searching trying to find where the heck I read that because it made so much sense at the time, plus it would make my supply last longer, which is key because the stuff is damned expensive.  When I decided to do this cycle, I read so much stuff from so many different sources I can't remember where I read that, but I know I did, and it was from a reliable source...the only people I listen to are either seasoned veterans of the business who have experience or people who have proven their knowledge through research and article/book writing.
> 
> I'm going to keep looking, but in the meantime can anyone give me a concrete explanation (scientific) as to why this would NOT work?  If you manipulate your test levels in this fashion, what will it affect?  TCD, I'm hoping you can tell me something.




2 days isn't enough to re-establish test levels to 'normal'.

With your own test supressed from the PH's (due to 1-AD converting to 1-test in the body), you may as well just stay on for those two days of the week and get more protein synthesis and thus, more bang for your buck.

If you cycle for 6 weeks total then take 6 weeks off before your next cycle. 

How is your cycle going thus far?


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## Robboe (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Prince *_
> I doubt if pro-hormones will do much for you at 22 years of age.



Depends what type of prohormones we're talking about.


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## Robboe (Oct 8, 2002)

By the way, Ponyboy, i apologise if that isn't scientific enough for you, but it's the meat and potatoes.


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## Twin Peak (Oct 8, 2002)

How much do you take per day?  One capsule?


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## Robboe (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> How much do you take per day?  One capsule?




Depends what we're talking about, but as far as 1-AD goes, you use either 2 or 3 caps daily, spread evenly throughout the day. (1 cap = 100mg).

However, for 1-test (which is an actual steroid, not a PH), if you apply transdermally (pretty much _the_ standard method for this, due to better bioavailabilty transdermally than orally for this compound) then you do 3-4 squirts every 12 hours (or as close to 12 hours as possible).

I can't recall the dosing for 1-test + 4-AD, however. I think the moderate dose is 6-8 and the hardcore dosing is 8-10 or 10-12. Something like that anyway.


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## Robboe (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> 
> 
> Depends what we're talking about, but as far as 1-AD goes, you use either 2 or 3 caps daily, spread evenly throughout the day. (1 cap = 100mg).




Sorry, forgot to add that more advanced users of this stuff (ie they've used many times before) sometimes go upwards of 600mg a day (i.e. 6 caps).

I think i've read somewhere of someone doing 9 caps a day, but i can't recall exactly.


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## Arnold (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> Depends what type of prohormones we're talking about.



Last I remember you said pro-hormones were a waste of money and did not work...did you change your stance on this?

(sorry I cannot keep up, your opinions seem to change almost daily)


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## Robboe (Oct 8, 2002)

Did I?

The early prohormones were and still are shit. Andro-whatever-dione brings more sides than benefits.

the -diols are a slight improvement, but alone are quite crap. The 4-diol (i.e. 4-AD) can be beneficial to stack with 1-test or 1-AD because it will provide oestrogen and thus, volumise cells and allow you to lift more, maybe even assisting in promoting protein synthesis.

the Nordiols and or noraderms or whatever they're called have potential also.

It also depends on what company you're getting off. Some are more reputable than others.


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## Robboe (Oct 8, 2002)

And BTW, like i said, 1-test isn't a PH, it's a steroid.


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## Twin Peak (Oct 8, 2002)

Okay, so whats the BEST PH stack.  I had no results from a month of androwhatever.


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## Robboe (Oct 8, 2002)

Why not go straight for 1-test?

ONE by avantlabs has great feedback. As has ONE+.

Short article:
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/products/one.html

One feedback:

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/feedback/feedback.php?productID=2

ONE+ feedback:

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/feedback/feedback.php?productID=1



Other than that, i'm not too sure about PH 'stacks' so i dunno if i'd feel comfortable telling you how to use them or what to use. I've never tried them myself, so it would be like taking sex tips off a virgin. Why not check out the avantlabs forum and getting feedback there?

Or maybe someone else on here can give you more assistance ?


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## Twin Peak (Oct 8, 2002)

I don't want to get involved in anything illegal.  So I am always looking for the best legal supps around.  Haven't found much....


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## Robboe (Oct 8, 2002)

1-test is legal.

For now, at least.

As is 1-AD.


There's some sort of loophole in the law.


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## ZECH (Oct 8, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by Twin Peak *_
> I don't want to get involved in anything illegal.  So I am always looking for the best legal supps around.  Haven't found much....


TP.......Like TCD said, Avant labs make great products. I have taken them and gained 30 lbs in strength on bench in 8 weeks and 8 lbs bodyweight from 1-test and 4/ad. One +(plus) is a combo of 1-test and 4 ad. This would probably be one of the best combo's you could do. I am getting ready in several weeks to try a super one+(more1-test added in) and a 1,4,andro(boldione). These are legal. Boldione is capsules like 1-ad. It is suppose to have the highest conversion of all orals(45%). 1-ad or boldione would be a good oral. If you would like to know where to get all these the cheapest pm me! If you want to gain some serious muscle and size in 4-8 weeks I would definitely try some of these. At short cycles (4 weeks) you will notice hardly any side effects.


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## Robboe (Oct 9, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by dg806 *_
> and a 1,4,andro(boldione).




Is that the one that converts to EQ or something?


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## Fit Freak (Oct 9, 2002)

OK...I'm new to the whole 1-AD and 1-Test deal...also from Canada so i can't get them around hear but I am thinking about taking a trip to the US so I'd like to find out as much info as I can on them....doses, reputable brands, cycle length, sides, etc.

I've been following this thread but could someone post or pm the info all in one post....hope it's not too much work...THX


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## Fit Freak (Oct 9, 2002)

Also thought I'd mention I've tried Animal Stack by Universal Nutrition, Osmo's Andro prodcuts, and Pinnacle's Andro 100 Poppers and basically thought it's a bunch of overpriced "junk" for the most part.


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## ZECH (Oct 9, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> 
> 
> Is that the one that converts to EQ or something?



I don't think so.............? It's suppose to be a direct precursor of the steriod Boldinone. What ever that is or does.....


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## Robboe (Oct 9, 2002)

Yeah, i just done a quick Google search and i think boldenone undecylenate = EQ.

boldione is the boldenone precursor (as you already said).

You should keep a log on here to let everyone know how your cycle goes. It sounds potent.


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## ZECH (Oct 9, 2002)

I've read alot of good things about people getting get gains from it! And like I said, supposedly it converts at 45% orally(that's high). So, what are suppose to be the major benefits from this? Strength, growth?? Is it androgenic?


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## ponyboy (Oct 9, 2002)

> _*Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy *_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Don't worry about it, TCD, I'd rather have the "meat and potatoes" as you call it.  I have been taking 200 mg. per day...I also heard about people who took 600mg per day or more (actually found some who were taking increasing cycles of 900mg plus stacking with other things).  Personally I think that's ridiculous, plus costs hundreds of dollars.  

First week I put on three pounds and increased my bench 1RM by 12 lbs.  Also squatted 20 pounds more for equal reps than one week previous.  However, I think it is too early to assume that is totally from the hormones, it is likely a placebo effect.  However, I do feel stronger and my muscles do feel fuller as well this week.  I'm more interested to see my results after four weeks and compare, but I'll make sure to post them in this forum.


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## ZECH (Oct 9, 2002)

You definitely want to start with the lowest dosage that will give you gains. 300mg/day gives gains to most. I have tried 600/day several cycles with good results. I have heard of 900/day but that is a lot! As you go you may need to increase dosage on latter cycles to keep increasing!


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