# How do you get the most out of tren?



## crab107 (Feb 4, 2013)

37 yo, 3rd cycle, 200lbs, 20% bf, wanting to build mass.

Tren ace 50mg/day
Dbol 50mg/day
Test E 500mg/week

I saw a post on here that you only get out what you put in when it comes to tren ace. What the best way to get the most of a tren ace cycle when it comes to mass? Any advice on the above cycle?

I know I shouldn't be running it on my 3rd cycle so try not to scold me to bad for it..lol. I'm keeping a close eye out for sides and have ancilliaries on hand. Will probably just stop if sides start up.


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## jay_steel (Feb 4, 2013)

get on a legit diet. Honestly i would drop the dbol and tren. Get on test at 500mg and eq at 500-600mg with a solid diet. Eq is very mild as well so that makes it nice. Then get on a strict diet with cardio for 45min eod and weight training with your plan. Get on a good solid diet. I have been a plan of dave palumbo's diet lately. It has worked great for me. I have been training my ass off for a lil over two years only and the best gains of my life happened in the past 3 weeks when I finally got serious and got with a structured diet.


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## NTL (Feb 4, 2013)

A good diet would defently help. I am just about to finish up a tren a run at 75mg ED with test c at 250mg a week. I saw amazing result with about 3-4% drop in bf and still adding pounds of mass. The side were not bad for me just some night sweats and minor sleep loss. This was my second cycle so I cant say nothing about it being your third.Tren is king,I say go for it.


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## VictorZ06 (Feb 4, 2013)

I would drop a chunk of that BF before doing anything...clean up your diet and up your cardio before you start.  20% is too high to start using AAS.  IMHO.  



/V


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## crab107 (Feb 4, 2013)

J





VictorZ06 said:


> I would drop a chunk of that BF before doing anything...clean up your diet and up your cardio before you start.  20% is too high to start using AAS.  IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> /V


Why is 20% to high? Dont AAS help you burn fat?


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## VictorZ06 (Feb 4, 2013)

crab107 said:


> J
> Why is 20% to high? Dont AAS help you burn fat?



If you are at 20%, you are more or less considered fat in this arena.  Drop a couple points naturally before hitting the juice.  If you are looking to drop fat, fix your diet and training routines.  20% is too high...some might run some clen  & T3 if they are looking for a short cut to burn some fat off.  Tren at 20% is foolish.  I'm sure some of the other bros will chime in.  Good luck.





/V


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## president (Feb 4, 2013)

VictorZ06 said:


> If you are at 20%, you are more or less considered fat in this arena.  Drop a couple points naturally before hitting the juice.  If you are looking to drop fat, fix your diet and training routines.  20% is too high...some might run some clen  & T3 if they are looking for a short cut to burn some fat off.  Tren at 20% is foolish.  I'm sure some of the other bros will chime in.  Good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sounds about right


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## rage racing (Feb 4, 2013)

VictorZ06 said:


> If you are at 20%, you are more or less considered fat in this arena.  Drop a couple points naturally before hitting the juice.  If you are looking to drop fat, fix your diet and training routines.  20% is too high...some might run some clen  & T3 if they are looking for a short cut to burn some fat off.  Tren at 20% is foolish.  I'm sure some of the other bros will chime in.  Good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This right here bro^^^^^. Get your diet and cardio in check first and then then take a ride on the Tren train.


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## crab107 (Feb 4, 2013)

VictorZ06 said:


> If you are at 20%, you are more or less considered fat in this arena.  Drop a couple points naturally before hitting the juice.  If you are looking to drop fat, fix your diet and training routines.  20% is too high...some might run some clen  & T3 if they are looking for a short cut to burn some fat off.  Tren at 20% is foolish.  I'm sure some of the other bros will chime in.  Good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Damn thats disappointing. Ive got some clen. Patience has never been one of my virtues. I want mass now...lol. At what %bf would be a good place to start tren?


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## l69lou (Feb 4, 2013)

Although 20% bf is way too high for me as well I don't see why that would negatively affect the results in the bulking cycle you have brought up. Test, tren and a dbol kickstart is an amazingly strong cycle and productive. Wheather you are ready for it is your decision. I suppose that answer is the same as getting the most out of such a cycle. It goes to the foundation of BBing- Training , nutrition and rest and recouperation. Do you have these building blocks in order is the question. I suggest at 20% bf you may be lacking in these areas. I did this exact run this fall and my gains shocked me. I was gaining over a pound a day at one point. Training was heavy and intense with a rest day every two days. That's what works for me. Diet, 325-350g protien/day, 500 g carbs/day. I ran the test higher, 750 up to 1000mg/wk as I feel for mass it is better to run the test higher than the tren. sides were rough at this dosage and at 5 weeks my bp was 168/90. This may be an issue for you at that BF. Just some of my thoughts. Good luck


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## Standard Donkey (Feb 4, 2013)

being that fat will hinder your insulin sensitivity greatly..


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## VictorZ06 (Feb 4, 2013)

Using any kind of AAS when you are at 20%BF is flat out wrong (unless you are a 400lb power lifter).  

Tren is for more experienced users, and more experienced users that are candidates for tren are in the single digits or low teens (BF).  Sure, tren can help aid in cutting some fat.  But that factor is really based on diet.  You can cut or bulk with any kind of AAS, it's your diet that reflects if you are cutting or bulking.  Tren is not that effective for those with high BF%.  IMHO!





/V


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## crab107 (Feb 4, 2013)

l69lou said:


> Although 20% bf is way too high for me as well I don't see why that would negatively affect the results in the bulking cycle you have brought up. Test, tren and a dbol kickstart is an amazingly strong cycle and productive. Wheather you are ready for it is your decision. I suppose that answer is the same as getting the most out of such a cycle. It goes to the foundation of BBing- Training , nutrition and rest and recouperation. Do you have these building blocks in order is the question. I suggest at 20% bf you may be lacking in these areas. I did this exact run this fall and my gains shocked me. I was gaining over a pound a day at one point. Training was heavy and intense with a rest day every two days. That's what works for me. Diet, 325-350g protien/day, 500 g carbs/day. I ran the test higher, 750 up to 1000mg/wk as I feel for mass it is better to run the test higher than the tren. sides were rough at this dosage and at 5 weeks my bp was 168/90. This may be an issue for you at that BF. Just some of my thoughts. Good luck[/QU
> 
> Well I sure as hell dont eat as much as I should. I get about 120-200g protein, maybe 200-300 carbs, all from fruits veggies and whole grains. I was at 20%bf a about 6 weeks ago. I can fit into a size 32-33 from 36 pants. Im thinkin i may be less than 20% not but not by much. Either that or it less and my calculations are off.
> 
> As far as training goes FAILURE is all that matters. I dont stop my reps until im purple and seeing tunnel vision..and then i might got for one more..not much for cardio though. And i do squats and sumo deadlifts as heavey as i can handle in the 7-10 rep range.. ususally245 on squats and 265 deadlifts..i know its not much but its alot for me


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## Standard Donkey (Feb 4, 2013)

crab107 said:


> Well I sure as hell dont eat as much as I should*. I get about 120-200g protein, maybe 200-300 carbs*, all from fruits veggies and whole grains. I was at 20%bf a about 6 weeks ago. I can fit into a size 32-33 from 36 pants. Im thinkin i may be less than 20% not but not by much. Either that or it less and my calculations are off.
> 
> *As far as training goes FAILURE is all that matters*. *I dont stop my reps until im purple and seeing tunnel vision..and then i might got for one more..not much for cardio though.* And i do squats and sumo deadlifts as heavey as i can handle in the 7-10 rep range.. ususally245 on squats and 265 deadlifts..i know its not much but its alot for me




ok you clearly aren't ready for steroids in general, much less tren..


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## crab107 (Feb 4, 2013)

Standard Donkey said:


> ok you clearly aren't ready for steroids in general, much less tren..



Could you eloaborate on that comment. I have been training without AAS on and off for two years and always hit a wall. I did my first cycle last summer and had amazing gain in strength but not a whole lot of size...


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## VictorZ06 (Feb 4, 2013)

You keep hitting a wall because you eat like a chick bro.  Hold on the juice until you have some more training under your belt and learn how to train and eat correctly.




/V


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## shearerr (Feb 4, 2013)

If you were unable to gain size on AAS, then definitely there was something wrong with your diet and workout.


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## Mudge (Feb 4, 2013)

20% bodyfat isn't "time to bulk/add muscle," more like time to cut. Tren can help along with test, but many will chide you for having a bad diet if you are that "fat."

Unless you are really short, 200 pounds @ 20% is "fat." My brother who doesn't work out and is kind of small, is 5'7" 185 pounds. Anyhow, get the diet in check or problems get worse, they don't get better, with or without drugs. The drugs if anything will make it worse for you because you will remain eating in a way you shouldn't, and you'll just get even fatter when you come off, eventually you'll be 25% bodyfat and still puny.


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## Mudge (Feb 4, 2013)

shearerr said:


> If you were unable to gain size on AAS, then definitely there was something wrong with your diet and workout.



Absolutely. Nobody should add more gear to make up for supposed genetic problems, I've seen youngsters running close to a gram a week of SINGLE items because they think they can't do it without that, its just a recipe for a bad life and no gains.


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## crab107 (Feb 4, 2013)

VictorZ06 said:


> You keep hitting a wall because you eat like a chick bro.  Hold on the juice until you have some more training under your belt and learn how to train and eat correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well god damn. I eat and drink water until i cant breath most of the time. I work 3 12 hr night shifts in a row at a level 2 trauma ER. I dont get time to eat as much on those days so i try to compensate on my days off. How can i improve my diet and training?


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## SFW (Feb 4, 2013)

> I dont get time to eat as much on those days so i try to compensate on my days off.


Buy a few boxes of MetRx meal replacement bars or something similar. Or Bring a mini blender with you, a freezer bag of protein powder, a small box of dry milk, a jar of peanut butter, and a ziplock of oatmeal. Takes 2 mins to prepare. About 2 mins to drink. Theres your meal in under 5 mins. Drink several throughout the day.


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## crab107 (Feb 5, 2013)

Well thanks for the advice and responses guys. And i have put on size from my two previous cycles just not as much as i would like. I gonna keep runnin it and see how it goes. If it gets bad ill just stop. I'll give an update in a week or so. BTW im runnin all AMA gear.


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## VictorZ06 (Feb 5, 2013)

You could also take those IDS liquid protein shots.  2 gulps gives you 42gr of protein.  Drink two, and you just put down 84gr of protein.  It's not the best stuff on earth to get you protein intake from, but it sure helps when you are on the go.  You might want to drop your caloric intake a bit, lower your sodium intake, and up your protein.  Most try and aim for 1.5gr per body pound....others (like myself) consume 2gr. per body pound daily.




/V


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## World-Pharma.org (Feb 5, 2013)

VictorZ06 said:


> I would drop a chunk of that BF before doing anything...clean up your diet and up your cardio before you start.  20% is too high to start using AAS.  IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> /V





big big true!


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## jay_steel (Feb 5, 2013)

crab107 said:


> Well god damn. I eat and drink water until i cant breath most of the time. I work 3 12 hr night shifts in a row at a level 2 trauma ER. I dont get time to eat as much on those days so i try to compensate on my days off. How can i improve my diet and training?



Talk to your work about a mini fridge where you work, buy a six pack lunch box and pack the crap out of it. Prep all your lunch on sunday. I cook about 3 lbs of chicken on sunday, weight it zip lock it and put it in my work fridge with salad, olive oil and vinegar. I am on no carbs right now, but you can also add brown rice for your bulk. Start waking up early and eating eggs and oats in the morning. You have to plan your meals. I know guys deployed in afgan who prepped for shows when they got back. Honestly if they can do this while running missions you can easily do it at home. Not to be an ass, but every thing you are saying is an excuse and until you take that word out of your vocabulary you will never get big. I use to be just like that, then I was big on just drinking my protein. It was not until I started planning every meal where I started to get gains. I originally planned to walk into my show I am prepping for at 176 now my training wants me to go in as a light heavy, due to the gains I am getting with a proper diet.

Look into DC training as well. It is GREAT for putting on size. Your training does not sound to structured, Hit your cardio up as well.


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## LAM (Feb 16, 2013)

Standard Donkey said:


> being that fat will hinder your insulin sensitivity greatly..



a high level of  body fat is a direct indicator that insulin sensitivity (IS) is already low which is what causes excess nutrients to be converted to lipids and stored in adipocytes (fat cells).

where those nutrients consumed go (nutrient partitioning) is all about IS.  when IS is high body fat is low, as IS decreases body fat increases as fat cells to do become desensitized to the effects of insulin.

for this person at 20% body fat to "bulk" he would gain substantially more body fat than muscle mass.


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## Calves of Steel (Feb 17, 2013)

Here is your tren guide. To get the most out of tren, bodyfat down to 10% first, keep test doses low, add masteron, and HGH if you can't sleep.

50mg test prop eod
100mg tren ace eod
50mg mast prop eod

...is a good place to start a first tren cycle. If you can tolerate this, bump up the tren to 75mg ed, then 100mg ed, 125...etc etc little by little and you will become a monster.

Low estrogen high(er) DHT turns the mental effects of tren from weirdo depressive suicidal paranoia into cocky alpha europhia like no testosterone has ever given you. You will absolutely love it. If you are having problems with sexual interest, add more test. Problems getting it up or gyno issues, more masteron. Looking flat, add anadrol. (Yes anadrol. On this combo of injectables, anadrol will push way more of the water into the muscle and make you look more ripped, not make you look like a puff, if you're 8% or below).


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## Menoah (Feb 19, 2013)

VictorZ06 said:


> Using any kind of AAS when you are at 20%BF is flat out wrong (unless you are a 400lb power lifter).
> 
> Tren is for more experienced users, and more experienced users that are candidates for tren are in the single digits or low teens (BF).  Sure, tren can help aid in cutting some fat.  But that factor is really based on diet.  You can cut or bulk with any kind of AAS, it's your diet that reflects if you are cutting or bulking.  Tren is not that effective for those with high BF%.  IMHO!
> 
> /V



Please listen to this man ^


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