# bodybuilding and women



## L Armstrong (Oct 3, 2006)

Is there anything women need to do in order to produce optimal results?

Should we train exactly as the men do, same protein requirements etc or are there other factors to consider?


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## katt (Oct 3, 2006)

Yeah - another woman bodybuilder   

I train with my husband and I personally train hard... because I want to build muscle as well - I eat clean (a good majority of the time, anyway), lift & do cardio and it seems to be working... I try to take in 30 grms of protein per meal - 5 /6 meals a day -  

I'm not a guru on this, but if you read the stickies, there's a lot of info there for you!   

Welcome to Iron Magazine!


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## Jodi (Oct 3, 2006)

Depends on what the results she is looking for.  If she wants a lean, defined body then yeah she needs to train the same way.  Obviously a 120lb female does not need the same protein and caloric amounts as a 200lb man does but pound for pound, it's the same requirements.  For fat loss, IMO, women need a bit more cardio than men do though.


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## katt (Oct 3, 2006)

Jodi said:


> Depends on what the results she is looking for.  If she wants a lean, defined body then yeah she needs to train the same way.  Obviously a 120lb female does not need the same protein and caloric amounts as a 200lb man does but pound for pound, it's the same requirements.  For fat loss, IMO, women need a bit more cardio than men do though.



Definitely agree with you on the cardio


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## P-funk (Oct 3, 2006)

Len Kravitz Agrees with you on the cardio too.

I think because woman have a greater type I cross sectional area, a little more cardio can help them out.

as far as weights go, you can hit it pretty hard.  I have had girls squatting for 3-5 reps and doing things like DB snatches for 2-3 reps, etc....


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## L Armstrong (Oct 4, 2006)

Thanks for the imput, much appreciated!


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## mike456 (Oct 4, 2006)

L Armstrong said:


> Thanks for the *imput*, much appreciated!



it is spelled input, why do so many people spell this wrong  i guess maybe because the m is next to the n? also so many people spell lose wrong, they usually spell it loose.


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## crazy_enough (Oct 4, 2006)

I agree were kinda bound to do a tad more cardio if low bf is a goal. As far as muscle building goes, I think the same principles apply: good food, heavy ass weights, sufficient recovery, proper supplementation.

I must say I was a little discouraged with the enthusiasm (or lack of) for the sport amongst females... Then I found my current gym 2 years ago and it is quite reassuring to know that some chicks do enjoy being sore after doing something other than cardio and pink dumbell curls!


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## katt (Oct 4, 2006)

crazy_enough said:


> I agree were kinda bound to do a tad more cardio if low bf is a goal. As far as muscle building goes, I think the same principles apply: good food, heavy ass weights, sufficient recovery, proper supplementation.
> 
> I must say I was a little discouraged with the enthusiasm (or lack of) for the sport amongst females... Then I found my current gym 2 years ago and it is quite reassuring to know that some chicks do enjoy being sore after doing something other than cardio and pink dumbell curls!


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## L Armstrong (Oct 4, 2006)

mike456 said:


> it is spelled input, why do so many people spell this wrong  i guess maybe because the m is next to the n? also so many people spell lose wrong, they usually spell it loose.



LOL thanks for the INPUT


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## L Armstrong (Oct 4, 2006)

crazy_enough said:


> I agree were kinda bound to do a tad more cardio if low bf is a goal. As far as muscle building goes, I think the same principles apply: good food, heavy ass weights, sufficient recovery, proper supplementation.
> 
> I must say I was a little discouraged with the enthusiasm (or lack of) for the sport amongst females... Then I found my current gym 2 years ago and it is quite reassuring to know that some chicks do enjoy being sore after doing something other than cardio and pink dumbell curls!



I think i am allergic to pink dumbells


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## P-funk (Oct 4, 2006)

L Armstrong said:


> I think i am allergic to pink dumbells



I'm not.  I love them!


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## L Armstrong (Oct 4, 2006)

P-funk said:


> I'm not.  I love them!



I can tell


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## PWGriffin (Oct 4, 2006)

P-funk said:


> I'm not.  I love them!



he does DB snatches with them...said so himself....what he didn't tell you is he does them in a leotard....

I've read women need a little more volume and a couple more reps per set than men for optimal gains in strength and size...due to the larger type 1 fiber cross sectional area...

Strength = 6-8 reps
Size = 10-12 reps...

I would recommend some kind of periodization though.  Working between various rep ranges.  

How much cardio are you guys talking about doing if ur a girl??  This might be useful information to my clients..


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## katt (Oct 4, 2006)

Cardio - I personally do 3 days a week, 45 min - I probably could have thrown in another session when I was cutting, but 3 days worked for me.


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## crazy_enough (Oct 4, 2006)

I dont think theres one ultimate cardio regimen for all... 20 min HIIT post w/o kicks my ass as much as hour long steady rate sessions did during my prep like cut. It really does depend what ure goals are, how much time u have, when u do it, how much bf ure looking/having to shed etc...

As far as lifting is concerned, I did 12-15 reps with shorter RI during a vut and am currently doing 3-5, sometimes 6 as Im working on adding slabs of meat for my first show. Lifting heavy has always been a thrill to me! girly dumbells and elastic bands are just not my thing.


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## Trouble (Oct 4, 2006)

I think Crazy is like me - she can pack on solid muscle more easily than most women.

20-25 min of HITT cardio kicks my ass pretty good too. I seem to be better tuned to it than the longer, more tedious 45 min session. I also notice my recovery suffers when I push too hard in cardio (hence my cautionary noises to Devlin in her journal).  

I use a hardcore aternating supersetted upper/lower body workout that keeps me moving quickly thru workouts.  Its akin to an aerobic workout - no rest between sets. I am breathing pretty hard by the end of an hour workout.  PW has it rightly.  Mix it up.  I will do a month or so of 12-50 rep workouts, then a month of lower rep 6-8, then a few weeks of SCT (2 reps per set, 2 variations on each major muscle group), at 150% of 1-RM with a 30 sec pause at 80% ROM.  Interesting effect in its ability to push thru certain stagnation points.

My approach is slightly unorthodox, but it works, because its forcing constant change in the routine.  I also do dynamic and static stretching and plyos as well.   I get weird looks from most of the wimmin, you presume that I use gear.  I laugh when they ask me.  Pfft.  

I am also allergic to pink dumbells - useless to all, except for the guys who have blown out their shoulders being mister macho.  *squint*


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## P-funk (Oct 4, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> he does DB snatches with them...said so himself....what he didn't tell you is he does them in a leotard....
> 
> I've read women need a little more volume and a couple more reps per set than men for optimal gains in strength and size...due to the larger type 1 fiber cross sectional area...
> 
> ...




those rep ranges look good for woman BB'ers (and men BB'ers) and general population clients.  periodization and progression are key.  Focus on both tension (6-8) and increasing metabolic work (10-12).


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## PWGriffin (Oct 4, 2006)

P-funk said:


> those rep ranges look good for woman BB'ers (and men BB'ers) and general population clients.  periodization and progression are key.  Focus on both tension (6-8) and increasing metabolic work (10-12).



God it upsets me when I see trainers doing NOTHING but 20 rep sets with women...I don't really go over 15 reps and I try to ease them into heavier stuff.


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## P-funk (Oct 4, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> God it upsets me when I see trainers doing NOTHING but 20 rep sets with women...I don't really go over 15 reps and I try to ease them into heavier stuff.



the people I work for only believe in 15-20 reps.  Ocasionally they will push the people up to an 10 rep set (gasp!).

I gotta get a new place.  This place is killing me.  Honestly, if this were my first ever job and introduction into training, I think I would walk out and say "I never want to be a trainer."....yea, it is that bad.


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## Trouble (Oct 4, 2006)

I don't know what kind of resistance mass you're using with these female clients.  I ain't talking about chicken shit mass when I am doing long squat sets (20) or leg press for reps upto 50 for 2 sets (not back to back) - its to technical failure.  Sorry, its necessary to get adequate stimulation.  I cycle back to more reasonable rep ranges and higher mass within a few weeks.  Must you be so formulaic?  If you're trying to push for glycogen depletion (to boost storage), sometimes, thats what you do.


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## P-funk (Oct 4, 2006)

Trouble said:


> I don't know what kind of resistance mass you're using with these female clients.  I ain't talking about chicken shit mass when I am doing long squat sets (20) or leg press for reps upto 50 for 2 sets (not back to back) - its to technical failure.  Sorry, its necessary to get adequate stimulation.  I cycle back to more reasonable rep ranges and higher mass within a few weeks.  Must you be so formulaic?  If you're trying to push for glycogen depletion (to boost storage), sometimes, thats what you do.



what are you talking about?

show me one time in there where I talked about the load in relation to the rep ranges?

If i want someone to squat for 20 hard reps (breathing reps) then I have them do it.  Usually this is not necessary though.

glycogen depletion can be achieved by doing moderate reps and lower rest intervals.  Does it matter which way you deplete it?

I was refering to the moronic nature of trainers that prescribe 15-20 reps of light weight because anything else would get you to  'bulky'.


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## crazy_enough (Oct 5, 2006)

LMAO, yep the 20 rep thing is a worldwide thing it seems!
I started training this girl just this week...Went in to her gym for her first session and she showed me the split they had cut out for her!!! They called it a full body workout...Now ud think that would mean that ALL fuggin bodyparts were being trained but NOPE! Typical "woman wants to loose ass and thighs and believes in spot reduction" workout. Adductors, lousy air pressure "squat" machine, no shoulder, calve, bicep or hamstring work!!! And of course, everything was 3 X 20!

Ive got her on two separate full body w/o's:  
12-10-8-10 rep scheme is workout #1, mostly accessory/isolation work, rest intervals are rather short.
And 3 x 8 on compound work for these same bp's is workout #2, longer RI.


*Trouble*, I had never checked ure gallery, looking solid as heck chica! nice work!


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## katt (Oct 5, 2006)

So, I have never done the 20-50 rep range.. Is it necessary, in your opinion for optimal growth??   We have always switched from 8-10 reps  and 4-6 rep range.. If I threw the 20-50 rep for a few weeks, would it help the growth process.? And, I with that range, you're looking to go until failure, correct???


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## PWGriffin (Oct 5, 2006)

crazy_enough said:


> LMAO, yep the 20 rep thing is a worldwide thing it seems!
> I started training this girl just this week...Went in to her gym for her first session and she showed me the split they had cut out for her!!! They called it a full body workout...Now ud think that would mean that ALL fuggin bodyparts were being trained but NOPE! Typical "woman wants to loose ass and thighs and believes in spot reduction" workout. Adductors, lousy air pressure "squat" machine, no shoulder, calve, bicep or hamstring work!!! And of course, everything was 3 X 20!
> 
> Ive got her on two separate full body w/o's:
> ...





IT'S NOT FAIR.  

You can push ur females to lift heavy weights cuz your a female!!!  First time I try to do an 8 rep set with a female she will say she doesn't want to look like me!!!


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## crazy_enough (Oct 5, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> IT'S NOT FAIR.
> 
> You can push ur females to lift heavy weights cuz your a female!!! First time I try to do an 8 rep set with a female she will say she doesn't want to look like me!!!


 

Trust me...99% ask me if I can make sure they wont look like me!  Most women dont want thick shoulders, arms and legs!  They want "teenie waist, small thighs" and think bench pressing will give em firmer tits!


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## PWGriffin (Oct 5, 2006)

crazy_enough said:


> think bench pressing will give em firmer tits!



It won't?? lol...my tits are much firmer!!!  

I wish that was a part of our evaluations...

caliper pinch test...check
Flexability test....check
Measurements...check
Resting heart rate....check


Tit firmness...hmm....check.


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## CowPimp (Oct 5, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> Tit firmness...hmm....check.



I'm studying for that certification as we speak.


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## crazy_enough (Oct 6, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> It won't?? lol...my tits are much firmer!!!
> 
> I wish that was a part of our evaluations...
> 
> ...


 

LMAO

Thats an additional course, given only to the most gifted of PT's!  

Id actualy do the tit firmness first...If the chick dont slap or hit your ass, then perhaps give her a "free cardio session"


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## PWGriffin (Oct 6, 2006)

crazy_enough said:


> LMAO
> 
> Thats an additional course, given only to the most gifted of PT's!
> 
> Id actualy do the tit firmness first...If the chick dont slap or hit your ass, then perhaps give her a "free cardio session"



 @ free cardio session.  

Now depending on the client, it might not be free...people don't go to PT's cuz they're too good looking!!

edit...can't...resist...

Those rigorous free cardio sessions are part of my new program for the ladies.....6 minute abs!! lol


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## crazy_enough (Oct 6, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> @ free cardio session.
> 
> Now depending on the client, it might not be free...people don't go to PT's cuz they're too good looking!!


 
Oh shit, I didnt see it that way!!!

Tit firmness test is also obsolete...Most fat ladies have big ass, firm perky tatas... I know I *did*... notice emphasis on "did" ?


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## BritChick (Oct 6, 2006)

P-funk said:


> the people I work for only believe in 15-20 reps.  Ocasionally they will push the people up to an 10 rep set (gasp!).



Are you serious???!


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## BritChick (Oct 6, 2006)

crazy_enough said:


> Trust me...99% ask me if I can make sure they wont look like me!  Most women dont want thick shoulders, arms and legs!  They want "teenie waist, small thighs" and think bench pressing will give em firmer tits!



It's definately an ongoing issue trying to explain to the majority of females that no one becomes a bb by accident and they won't wake up one day and all of a sudden say omg that last workout made me so bulky!!!  Some of us bust our asses trying to gain more mass but the general public still seems to think you can get big looking at dumbells.


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## P-funk (Oct 6, 2006)

BritChick said:


> Are you serious???!



dead serious.


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## L Armstrong (Oct 7, 2006)

There dont seem to be too many women Bodybuilders here??

Are there any women here that suffer with their time of the month (TOM). I should have trained today but i get migranes, feel really nauseous and extremely thirsty...this is every month!!!


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## crazy_enough (Oct 8, 2006)

L Armstrong said:


> There dont seem to be too many women Bodybuilders here??
> 
> Are there any women here that suffer with their time of the month (TOM). I should have trained today but i get migranes, feel really nauseous and extremely thirsty...this is every month!!!


 
hey its like the gym, stage and magazines...not many of us around!  women dont like to "build" they like to "tone"   To each his own right!  

I get mild to moderate symptoms at TOM , but still train, even if lightly or just steady rate cardio..I find nothing helps like activity and endorphines (sp?) I usualy feel a whole lot bertter afterwards.


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## PWGriffin (Oct 8, 2006)

crazy_enough said:


> hey its like the gym, stage and magazines...not many of us around!  women dont like to "build" they like to "tone"   To each his own right!
> 
> I get mild to moderate symptoms at TOM , but still train, even if lightly or just steady rate cardio..I find nothing helps like activity and endorphines (sp?) I usualy feel a whole lot bertter afterwards.



why not periodize loading paramaters and time unloading weeks around the TOM?  Maybe that would help if you weren't going _balls_ out...


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## crazy_enough (Oct 8, 2006)

^^^ what balls?


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## PWGriffin (Oct 8, 2006)

crazy_enough said:


> ^^^ what balls?



exactly


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## GFR (Oct 10, 2006)

Trouble said:


> I don't know what kind of resistance mass you're using with these female clients.  I ain't talking about chicken shit mass when I am doing long squat sets (20) or leg press for reps upto 50 for 2 sets (not back to back) - its to technical failure.  Sorry, its necessary to get adequate stimulation.  I cycle back to more reasonable rep ranges and higher mass within a few weeks.  Must you be so formulaic?  If you're trying to push for glycogen depletion (to boost storage), sometimes, thats what you do.


Horrible opinion...you have your clients hit 50 rep movements to technical failure I will  have mine train hard and smart. It would be fine if the goals the had involved 50 rep sets, but 50 rep sets are needed by a tiny few.


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## GFR (Oct 10, 2006)

P-funk said:


> what are you talking about?
> 
> show me one time in there where I talked about the load in relation to the rep ranges?
> 
> ...


She did not bother to answer you.....typical


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## ZECH (Oct 10, 2006)

ForemanRules said:


> She did not bother to answer you.....typical



Have you ever had the thought that she leads a busy life and has not had a chance to check back yet?


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## CowPimp (Oct 10, 2006)

dg806 said:


> Have you ever had the thought that she leads a busy life and has not had a chance to check back yet?



The key word there is thought, as in the past tense of "think."  Most people aren't too good at thinking.


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## L Armstrong (Oct 10, 2006)

PWGriffin said:


> why not periodize loading paramaters and time unloading weeks around the TOM?  Maybe that would help if you weren't going _balls_ out...



That could be an idea, cheers


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## L Armstrong (Oct 10, 2006)

crazy_enough said:


> hey its like the gym, stage and magazines...not many of us around!  women dont like to "build" they like to "tone"   To each his own right!
> 
> I get mild to moderate symptoms at TOM , but still train, even if lightly or just steady rate cardio..I find nothing helps like activity and endorphines (sp?) I usualy feel a whole lot bertter afterwards.



I am more of a Madonna/Linda Hamilton wannabe.....so not massive muscles but great definition....

My TOM has really thrown me this month, i feel so weak, it cant be normal


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## katt (Oct 19, 2006)

Cardio helps me most times - although I'm not plagued with the migranes and such... just irritable.. 

It seems every morning when I'm about in the middle of my program I get nauseated though... but I work through it..

I bust my ass every workout - mostly..  It takes so long to build this damn muscle anyway - shit..


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## L Armstrong (Oct 20, 2006)

Well i realised why i felt so bad this month, i have now got flu and i feel baaaaaad.

I have done nothing for almost 2 weeks and i am stressing!


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## katt (Oct 20, 2006)

No need to stress - let your body get better, rest,  then start again.


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