# Attention Zonaguy.



## Blooming Lotus (May 2, 2007)

I don't really do P.M.'s but regarding this one from you 

[quote p.m.] 'essential' supplements? 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I've read that taking these following supplements are essential while on this type of diet; 6 to 8 meals a day (trying to loose body fat%).

1. Glutamine (10-15 grams)
2. Multivitamin (1-2 a day)
3. Vitamin C (3 grams a day)
4. chromium
5. Flax seed oil or sufflower oil

Would you agree?
[end ]

I want to say no.  I'm not real big on potential mineral toxicity myself and several sources say that chromium is best addressed via intake of meats and cheeses and grains and so on anyway.
For my own carb metabolism I usually just try to make sure if I'm doing one to get a vitamin B hit in sometime soonish or so thereafter...and maybe if I'm in a serious mood about it do a few good shots of lemon juice to clean up the extra radicals it pollutes my system with...co-incidently aiding the lipid metabolism ( re- blood fats) that chromium as a B.B. supplement is supposed to do.

I am a huuge fan of vitamin c and my general rule with thaat is 1 glass with a multi vit on rising pre-coffee ( about tanin and iron absorption inhibition  and c for iron uptake = extra oxygen retantion to and through cells through the day)  and then extra through day on top of that again if smoking heavily or eating anything with iron...and maybe during a heavy cardio sesh sometimes for the potassium boost or I feel like my spleen needs it or I just want the extra potassium for whatever reason.

Flax seed oil I dO'nt do because good fat or bad, it still makes you're butt jiggle and I look after my skin and bowels with extra fruits most of time and only reeally do a fat occassionally or in a burst to make sure I get a period or to cycle in a cell communication friction change. Change is as good as a holiday apparently. For cell communication without it I do seaweed or kelp products and take care of my natural mineral salt intake .


Glutamine yay for and a multi vitamin I think every adult should have regardless.

i still don't know what you're eating and doing exactly, but I wiill tell you that since high carbs supress your bodies natural L-glutamine and L-argine production for growth repair hormone production for muscle density retention and whatever else it does besides help build you your muscles ( and why they're so popular as steroids) that glutamine as supplement amino nOt yet in it's basic form still leaving room for some protective metabolic processes to go on is not a bad idea.


Does the body naturally produce L-arginine ? - Google Search

glutamine as a steroid - Google Search

Hope that helps.


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## Witchblade (May 3, 2007)

I disagree. 

1. fish-oil
2. multi-vitamin

That's it. The rest isn't necessary, it's optional (whey, creatine, glutamine).


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## Gazhole (May 3, 2007)

Yeah. Creatine is totally optional, and Whey is more of a convieniance than a necessity.

When i didnt take Multi-Vits while training i was getting colds too often, and when i didnt take Fish Oils my joints were absolute agony after a few weeks heavy lifting.


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## Nigeepoo (May 3, 2007)

What's sufflower oil? If it's either sunflower or safflower oils, these have about 70 times more omega-6 than omega-3 (very bad) which is the complete opposite of flaxseed oil which has about 4 times more omega-3 than omega-6 (very good). 

Fats don't make people fat. Too many calories do! Essential Fatty Acids are called that for a reason, just like Essential Amino Acids. The Western diet contains way too much omega-6 compared to omega-3 which is why flaxseed oil and/or fish oils are so important. A high o-6 to o-3 ratio in the diet is associated with many diseases e.g. Heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes, cancer, mental problems and it aggravates inflammatory conditions like psoriasis, lupus, IBS, asthma, eczema, RA.


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## vortrit (May 3, 2007)

Witchblade said:


> I disagree.
> 
> 1. fish-oil
> 2. multi-vitamin
> ...



Ditto. Although I would hate to have to go without whey, but I could if I had to.


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## StanUk (May 3, 2007)

Gazhole said:


> Yeah. Creatine is totally optional, and Whey is more of a convieniance than a necessity.
> 
> When i didnt take Multi-Vits while training i was getting colds too often, and when i didnt take Fish Oils my joints were absolute agony after a few weeks heavy lifting.



I used to think this with the whey, but apparently 'Trouble' proved me wrong here: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/diet-nutrition/72895-help-me-help-my-son.html



> Good answer from Stan, but I want to correct a misconception.
> 
> Whey (complete, a blend of concentrate and isolate) is an ideal protein source that is highly enriched in the precursors that function as critical free radical scavengers that form form normal energy burning processes (called respiration).
> 
> ...


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## Blooming Lotus (May 4, 2007)

Of course we could all go without it if we had to, but there is no way in hell I personally could get enough sulfur or eat enough protein without it!....and since I have this liver thing going on and meant to stay away from high carb intake.. if I don't do it I die!.. sooner and later.. if that's possible .
.. nor for that matter to be honest and more relevant to everyone else could I fit in enough training hrs having to take extra time or comprimise workouts if I had to digest a whole lot of other stuff from more whole and or less efficient sources. 
The extra potassium in the protein powder ( Aussie Bodies 130 mgs / serve)  that Ii use doesn't hurt to max out intensity with and help regulate my fluids and heart rate neither. .. which with low blood pressure is quite handy.

In fact I will go as far as to say that I am screwed without my wheyprotein!.. :/.... so much so that there are countries I wont live in too long or concede to take an elite condition 'by' in if they don't sell it or I can readily find it!!..like China or India for example . God bless whey protein powder!..and even America for it if you like.
 I probably wouldn't eat at all if I didn't have to but imo overtraining alll and entirely comes down to a combination of adequate rest and adequate nutrition and fluids. .. hence why some ppl can "die" after an hr or 2 a day and others can go fulltime all day every day and live really long healthy lives ...and why I believe I've myself trained so intensely and easily with more to burn (  )for so many hrs a day and seen and trained with others at world class do likewise ( and have done for years with no signs of letting up so much picking up) and also witnessed the other side of the coin of ppl who regularly struggle to do  so  little.

 I don't believe most ppl eat ideally at all. .train or not..and I personally don't waant to not train most of my days for most of the rest of my life at this stage ( and with intensity like I enjoy doing that) If I can possibley put together a good long term plan to cater for it.  Screw whole sources alone!. to be blunt.

I also agree that a Branch Chain Amino Acid Profile can be satisified through milk and egg ( white) combos.  ..as occassionally as you might want to consider other means,..It makes up the bulk of my diet otherwise.. ( give or take produce and co) but it's not enough for some of us..  and on viscous resoration( the lining of organs that protects them and helps them function ) when the milk is nO fat that's being drank and everything else is no and low fat.. the whey certainly goes a long way for myy overall health and performance aand ability to maintain a low bf and so on anyway.

As for oil, I stand by my statement. There's plenty of good and alternative advice here for you though so I'm sure you'll do what you like.

Clearly this post isnt going to make me exactly popular around here, as likely is the trend of my cpl of posts tonight, but they're entirely honest and what the heck, there you go anyway.

Blooming tianshi Lotus.


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## Blooming Lotus (May 4, 2007)

Nigeepoo said:


> What's sufflower oil? If it's either sunflower or safflower oils, these have about 70 times more omega-6 than omega-3 (very bad) which is the complete opposite of flaxseed oil which has about 4 times more omega-3 than omega-6 (very good).
> 
> Fats don't make people fat. Too many calories do! Essential Fatty Acids are called that for a reason, just like Essential Amino Acids. The Western diet contains way too much omega-6 compared to omega-3 which is why flaxseed oil and/or fish oils are so important. A high o-6 to o-3 ratio in the diet is associated with many diseases e.g. Heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes, cancer, mental problems and it aggravates inflammatory conditions like psoriasis, lupus, IBS, asthma, eczema, RA.




Just quickly while we're here I want to address this. Firstly though I want to say that the 'ner' comment was immature and I didn't reeally appreciate that nor think your information was overly accurate . We don't have to agree and you're perfectly entitled be as immature as you wish.
Moving on.
Regarding the comment above and the issue of joints firstly, .. If you 've been reading and understanding what I've been saying I have information to suggest is an ideal way to eat, through catabolising proteins in a certain and particular fashion, a person will as a result have their bodies produce a chemistry identical to msm. If I have time and opportuinty I will try to find you some links regarding it.
With regard to fat inbalance being causal to alot of those you mentioned, I believe that if you looked more closelly you might find that they are caused or initiated by hyperglycodemia and or cell communication issues.. off which can come from an unbalance of protein fat orr carbohydrate intake comparitive to elimination and use and so forth.

As far as mental illness goes, I have already explained that kelp has been clinically proven to be a natural remedy to nuero -communication breakdownsand several other thinhgs that I feel really pertinent to this type of crowd. I really would liketo come back and talk to you more abouut this and I will attempt to do that.

Blooming tianshi Lotus.


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## zonaguy03 (May 4, 2007)

Thanks everyone for the responses (started with Blooming).  I am sticking with whey morning and after workout, a multivitamin after an afternoon meal, and 1 fish oil capsule each of my 3 meals in the day.  Appreciate all your guyz help.  Good looking out.


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## Nigeepoo (May 4, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> Just quickly while we're here I want to address this. Firstly though I want to say that the 'ner' comment was immature and I didn't reeally appreciate that nor think your information was overly accurate . We don't have to agree and you're perfectly entitled be as immature as you wish.


The "ner" comment was in another thread. I thought that you were having a laugh with your post so I pulled your leg a bit in return. Thank you, I shall continue to be playful with some of my replies. 


Blooming Lotus said:


> Moving on.
> With regard to fat inbalance being causal to alot of those you mentioned, I believe that if you looked more closelly you might find that they are caused or initiated by hyperglycodemia and or cell communication issues.. off which can come from an unbalance of protein fat orr carbohydrate intake comparitive to elimination and use and so forth.


Omega-6 to omega-3 ratio being too high and hypoglycaemia are two completely different things. Some medical problems are caused by rebound hypoglycaemia. These can be addressed by avoiding getting rebound hypoglycaemia. I was talking about omega-6 to omega-3 ratio, an imbalance of which causes long-term health problems. Supplementing with either sunflower or safflower oil worsens an already high omega-6 to omega-3 ratio. This is not good. 


Blooming Lotus said:


> As far as mental illness goes, I have already explained that kelp has been clinically proven to be a natural remedy to nuero -communication breakdownsand several other thinhgs that I feel really pertinent to this type of crowd. I really would liketo come back and talk to you more abouut this and I will attempt to do that.
> 
> Blooming tianshi Lotus.


If a mental problem is caused by a lack of omega-3 in the diet, how is kelp going to help? See http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=533861&blobtype=pdf and Fish Oils


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## Blooming Lotus (May 4, 2007)

I didn't saay hyperglycemia, I said hypergylcodemia... it refers to a bubbling of staganating unused dietary sugar which precipitates a whole host of really nasty reactions in our bodies.... and over existing conditions serves to exaccabate and intitate whole other systemary breakdowns.
Because everything we eat breaks down into one form or other of syrup as it metabolises and catabolises,.. a constant stimuli like that does things to activate certain dna and receptors to promote a cancer spreading environment... bearing in mind those genes are already there and waiting for an environment to thrive in...of which toxicity provides it and of which a staganating culmulation of constant non-elimination of any of fat / protein or carb or semi - metabolised derivitives of those can do for us... why some ppl get cancer from smoking and others don't. way to suffocate one's way to breed some nastys.

 I waas being playful in that post from the other thread you responded to but to personalise an attack with a condescending snipe, I feel to be immature and generally uncalled for.  If that's how you play then that's how you play, no harm done. 

I'm fairly sure that I've already explained this on another thread somewhere and to be honest, I don't think I'm overly prepared to go into deep lecture mode here about it, however,.. ..
The reeason for fats in our diet, and essential fats at that, is for cell communication / to cool our cells down ad to act as lubricant. I don't really want to get into long winded complicated nuero -science with you, but it's the oils in the cells and between or around them that provide something for the nuero-signals to pass through and be assimilated by. When there are really low fats in a person's diet, that person becomes at risk of comprimising not only that process in their brains but also throughout their entire bodies. 
To cater for the lack of fat to utilise to pass that message throughout the bodies fluids and from cell to cell and nerve cells and through nerve systems, a more abrasive cell friction or neurotransmitter can be employed through use of mineral salts and kelp as , to the best of my knowledge atm, the best source of that. .. which is likely because of the other goodies contained therein .. like melatonin and potassium for example.,,also reeally a wonder substance in terms of hyperthyroidism and most particularly Imo relevant for B.B.'s and elite athletes lacking in fats for extended periods running risks of all sorts of health comprimises for it's coolant and lubricant value and putting themselves at risk of stagnation of really vital processes that kelp also caters to.

I think there are lots of factors to mental illness, but one thing they all seem to have in common is that neccessary for healthful function is a. good stable consistent condutor fluids B. good stable cells and consistent cell integrity to pass and receive signals and c. a good constant inter-conductor fluid  nuerotransmitter ph ( ?)for the neurosignal to pass from the fluid into and out of the cell through. There are loads of ways to mess up that process or have your body not have that present. .. and hence why 1 in every 100 Amercians are supposedly schitzophrenic and why 1 in every 3 people are supposedly meantally ill in one shape or other. just not eating enough carbs and running into glycogen deficit can cause flatness and chronic depression.. as can not being able to go to the toilet or irritable bowels or untened niggley pains endured over extended periods, various nutritional decifts or toxicities  and so on and so forth. 
I think it somewhat also comes down to creating an alkaline enviroment ..
It also seems to have something to do with heavy metal pollution , higholy responsible for mental illness and kelp's benift as a heavy metal detox agent. Sulfur also has a role in lifting some of these nasty chemical poisons that interfere with nuerotransmitters and cause mental disturbance and imbalances throughout the body and various sympathetic systems.. in the same way using chewing gum might help you to remove chewing gum that's already stuck somewhere.. (if that makes any sense.), leaving then only to flush with water and pee or poop it's elimination.


I'm not sure I neccessarily agree with all of this as an absolute, but it iis a really good place to start understanding the role of nutrition in mental illness.


Alternative Mental Health



Marine Plants To Boost Immunity and Detoxify

Acadian Sea Kelp provides iodine to the body for correct functioning of the thyroid gland, which influences overall health, metabolism, skin and coat. Kelp also contributes to good pigmentation. Kelp contains some protein, is rich in iodine, calcium, sulfur, magnesium, iron, copper, phosphorus, sodium and potassium as well as vitamins A, B, E and D. Kelp also contains something called mannitol, a gentle purgative and bile stimulant, small amounts of lecithin, a phosphorus compound thought to be of great importance in the knitting of broken bones, especially in the older dog, and some carotin, a precursor to vitamin A production.



how does kelp treat schizophrenia? - Google Search


I'm not neccessarily recommend that ppl don't take efa's , particularly occassionally women trying to stay fertile and children 
It's quite a shit long complicated thing to get into, so I reeally hope that helps you out. Here's one more :-
iodine deficiency causing mental illness - Google Search


P.s. Zonaguy you are welcome.


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## zonaguy03 (May 4, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> I didn't saay hyperglycemia, I said hypergylcodemia... it refers to a bubbling of staganating unused dietary sugar which precipitates a whole host of really nasty reactions in our bodies.... and over existing conditions serves to exaccabate and intitate whole other systemary breakdowns.
> Because everything we eat breaks down into one form or other of syrup as it metabolises and catabolises,.. a constant stimuli like that does things to activate certain dna and receptors to promote a cancer spreading environment... bearing in mind those genes are already there and waiting for an environment to thrive in...of which toxicity provides it and of which a staganating culmulation of constant non-elimination of any of fat / protein or carb or semi - metabolised derivitives of those can do for us... why some ppl get cancer from smoking and others don't. way to suffocate one's way to breed some nastys.
> 
> I waas being playful in that post from the other thread you responded to but to personalise an attack with a condescending snipe, I feel to be immature and generally uncalled for.  If that's how you play then that's how you play, no harm done.
> ...



HaHa, you should have warned me before you wrote all this!  Now i'm more confused than I was when I first entered this forum 2 weeks ago!  Can I ask you of one huge favor.  Please, just come down to my level for just a second.  These are the basic principles I use with my diet.  Please do not go into great detail on each, just say *good or bad* and if bad *specify why, and what you would change it with*.

1.  Wake  up in the morning- 2nd most sugar intake of the day (which isnt too much).  I have a banana, no fat/low sugar yogurt with dried oats, and a piece of dark 12 grain bread, and a whey protein shake with milk

2.  When the work out up comes up (i make sure I eat at least 2 hours before because in insulin?), for my post-work out meal *I consume the most fats (mostly coming from peanut butter), proteins, and carbs*

3.  After that meal, throughout the day I eat mainly vegetables with a source or two of protein with each meal.

4.  I eat 6 meals a day.


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## Blooming Lotus (May 4, 2007)

lordy. and I thought I was already due to stop posting here as it was!.. not that anyone 'd ask too much or I'd get sucked into the forum request trap, but here .

1. I don't know what your training schedule is.

2. I don't know what your training schedule is + imho peanut bad. everything you can from iit you can get from much more efficient sources..without the other rubbish in it.

3. no opinion without knowing what vetgetables what proteins or what you did or are about to do that needs to be fueled by it. I am nOt a mind reader!.

4. good. do 8.
Ideally  take nourishment each 2 waking hrs.

the end.


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## zonaguy03 (May 4, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> lordy. and I thought I was already due to stop posting here as it was!.. not that anyone 'd ask too much or I'd get sucked into the forum request trap, but here .
> 
> 1. I don't know what your training schedule is.
> 
> ...



Schedule:

1.  Eat a breakfast meal
2.  Two hours later or so, weight training for 45 minutes- intense no rests beween reps

3.  Post workout:  have whey protein shake and other sugar/carbs= i need i deas on better things to  consume.

4.  Rest of the day, have salads with:  spinach leaves, carrots, cucumbers, tomatoes, no dressing.

My protein sources with these meals:  boneless/skinless chicken breast, milk, or whey protein shake (skim milk).


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## Blooming Lotus (May 4, 2007)

Sorry Zonaguy but I'm just coming out of a bad long and painful experience and head fuck of a time consuming b.s. experience of being reeally badly harrassed on another board for 4 yrs. I think you'll have to ask someone else.

Blooming tianshi Lotus.

p.s. you might want to add what your lifting x how many and considering you 've been going on about all this other stuff you were doing or wanting to do, anything else you might be doing aswell so ppl can advise you properly and without beating around the bush for weeks to be able to do that. Ppl get paaid to do this for ppl. If you get an answer, consider yourself lucky. A client is big commitment. Next you'll be asking me to do the workout for you.  I wont do that with you.
Amen.

Post me a weeks food and training blog and onn this thread and I'll think about it.


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## zonaguy03 (May 4, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> Sorry Zonaguy but I'm just coming out of a bad long and painful experience and head fuck of a time consuming b.s. experience of being reeally badly harrassed on another board for 4 yrs. I think you'll have to ask someone else.
> 
> Blooming tianshi Lotus.
> 
> ...



dang, you seem like you're a pretty important person.  no private messages, have pay you like a boss for an answer, I mean where would i be without people like you?  I'll tell ya, id be 500 lbs heavier, eating italian beefs and in and out burgers all my life.  nah im just playin.  all fun and games.  i cheated tonight with that italian beef...must be depressed or something?


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## Blooming Lotus (May 4, 2007)

I don't do  private messages  because it half creeps me out that. It's like.. calling me at hm or something and trying to pal up when i'm reeally wondering whotf you are and why you're bugging me.
If you indulge this p.m. ing fantago certain ppl tend to misconstrue the nature of one's impasse and want to call for real and come visit and hang out and  have in depth private conversations about shit in your life and your head  and Idn want to do that. Maybe ever again! lol . but really. 
If you want to ask a question and explain what it is you want and do it publicly, it could be entirely likely someone might even answer. 
Cant eat creatine because youre on meds but you do beef? @). I think you're full of shit . If I'm wrong I just am and I'll be happy to burn in hell for a while because of it. If you're lonely and depressed and just hard up for company I highly suggest getting yourself a life or getting busy working twds putting one togther.



Blooming Lotus
p.s. if you are dyying because of that beef consumption I apologise...and lol...really quietly.


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## zonaguy03 (May 5, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> I don't do  private messages  because it half creeps me out that. It's like.. calling me at hm or something and trying to pal up when i'm reeally wondering whotf you are and why you're bugging me.
> If you indulge this p.m. ing fantago certain ppl tend to misconstrue the nature of one's impasse and want to call for real and come visit and hang out and  have in depth private conversations about shit in your life and your head  and Idn want to do that. Maybe ever again! lol . but really.
> If you want to ask a question and explain what it is you want and do it publicly, it could be entirely likely someone might even answer.
> Cant eat creatine because youre on meds but you do beef? @). I think you're full of shit . If I'm wrong I just am and I'll be happy to burn in hell for a while because of it. If you're lonely and depressed and just hard up for company I highly suggest getting yourself a life or getting busy working twds putting one togther.
> ...



get blasted again by a predator


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## Nigeepoo (May 6, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> I didn't saay hyperglycemia, I said hypergylcodemia... it refers to a bubbling of staganating unused dietary sugar which precipitates a whole host of really nasty reactions in our bodies.... and over existing conditions serves to exaccabate and intitate whole other systemary breakdowns.


Sorry, but hypoglycodemia sounds like a made-up pseudo-science word to me. It's not on Wikipedia in either US or UK spelling.


Blooming Lotus said:


> Because everything we eat breaks down into one form or other of syrup as it metabolises and catabolises,.. a constant stimuli like that does things to activate certain dna and receptors to promote a cancer spreading environment... bearing in mind those genes are already there and waiting for an environment to thrive in...of which toxicity provides it and of which a staganating culmulation of constant non-elimination of any of fat / protein or carb or semi - metabolised derivitives of those can do for us... why some ppl get cancer from smoking and others don't. way to suffocate one's way to breed some nastys.


I agree that all dietary carbs (apart from fibre) end up as blood glucose. What point are you trying to make? I was talking about omega-3 & omega-6 EFAs, not blood glucose. 


Blooming Lotus said:


> I waas being playful in that post from the other thread you responded to but to personalise an attack with a condescending snipe, I feel to be immature and generally uncalled for.  If that's how you play then that's how you play, no harm done.


Attack? WTF are you talking about? I've already explained that I thought that your cut & paste from equal.com was a joke so I paraphrased you in a leg-pulling manner. Have you had a sense of humour bypass? Can we drop this already and move on? It's getting tiresome. 


Blooming Lotus said:


> I'm fairly sure that I've already explained this on another thread somewhere and to be honest, I don't think I'm overly prepared to go into deep lecture mode here about it, however,.. ..
> The reeason for fats in our diet, and essential fats at that, is for cell communication / to cool our cells down ad to act as lubricant. I don't really want to get into long winded complicated nuero -science with you, but it's the oils in the cells and between or around them that provide something for the nuero-signals to pass through and be assimilated by. When there are really low fats in a person's diet, that person becomes at risk of comprimising not only that process in their brains but also throughout their entire bodies.
> To cater for the lack of fat to utilise to pass that message throughout the bodies fluids and from cell to cell and nerve cells and through nerve systems, a more abrasive cell friction or neurotransmitter can be employed through use of mineral salts and kelp as , to the best of my knowledge atm, the best source of that. .. which is likely because of the other goodies contained therein .. like melatonin and potassium for example.,,also reeally a wonder substance in terms of hyperthyroidism and most particularly Imo relevant for B.B.'s and elite athletes lacking in fats for extended periods running risks of all sorts of health comprimises for it's coolant and lubricant value and putting themselves at risk of stagnation of really vital processes that kelp also caters to.


Sorry, but that sounds like pseudo-scientific clap-trap. Cooling cells down? Lubricating cells? Are you familiar with the omega-6 & omega-3 metabolic pathways? Are you aware that both pathways use the same enzymes, therefore an excess of omega-6 inhibits the omega-3 pathway? Are you familiar with the series one, two and three prostaglandins produced by these two pathways and the health problems resulting from an imbalance in the production of these prostaglandins? 


Blooming Lotus said:


> I think there are lots of factors to mental illness, but one thing they all seem to have in common is that neccessary for healthful function is a. good stable consistent condutor fluids B. good stable cells and consistent cell integrity to pass and receive signals and c. a good constant inter-conductor fluid  nuerotransmitter ph ( ?)for the neurosignal to pass from the fluid into and out of the cell through. There are loads of ways to mess up that process or have your body not have that present. .. and hence why 1 in every 100 Amercians are supposedly schitzophrenic and why 1 in every 3 people are supposedly meantally ill in one shape or other. just not eating enough carbs and running into glycogen deficit can cause flatness and chronic depression.. as can not being able to go to the toilet or irritable bowels or untened niggley pains endured over extended periods, various nutritional decifts or toxicities  and so on and so forth.
> I think it somewhat also comes down to creating an alkaline enviroment ..
> It also seems to have something to do with heavy metal pollution , higholy responsible for mental illness and kelp's benift as a heavy metal detox agent. Sulfur also has a role in lifting some of these nasty chemical poisons that interfere with nuerotransmitters and cause mental disturbance and imbalances throughout the body and various sympathetic systems.. in the same way using chewing gum might help you to remove chewing gum that's already stuck somewhere.. (if that makes any sense.), leaving then only to flush with water and pee or poop it's elimination.


That may well be, but it's irrelevant to the subject of omega-6 to omega-3 balance. You have gone well off-topic. 


Blooming Lotus said:


> I'm not sure I neccessarily agree with all of this as an absolute, but it iis a really good place to start understanding the role of nutrition in mental illness.
> Alternative Mental Health
> Marine Plants To Boost Immunity and Detoxify
> Acadian Sea Kelp provides iodine to the body for correct functioning of the thyroid gland, which influences overall health, metabolism, skin and coat. Kelp also contributes to good pigmentation. Kelp contains some protein, is rich in iodine, calcium, sulfur, magnesium, iron, copper, phosphorus, sodium and potassium as well as vitamins A, B, E and D. Kelp also contains something called mannitol, a gentle purgative and bile stimulant, small amounts of lecithin, a phosphorus compound thought to be of great importance in the knitting of broken bones, especially in the older dog, and some carotin, a precursor to vitamin A production.
> ...


Sure, iodine deficiency can cause mental problems. But what's that got to do with correcting a high omega-6 to omega-3 ratio by taking flaxseed or fish oils?


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## zonaguy03 (May 6, 2007)

so omega 3= fish oil= the goods?


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## Nigeepoo (May 6, 2007)

zonaguy03 said:


> so omega 3= fish oil= the goods?


If you eat meats, eggs, milk & cheese from grain-fed animals (virtually all supermarket produce) and/or eat a lot of nuts & seeds (except flaxseeds) and/or the oils from those nuts & seeds, then omega-3 = the goods. That's flaxseed oil (about 20g/day) or fish oils (about 2g of EPA+DHA/day). Divide 2,000mg by the EPA+DHA content/capsule to get the number of fish oil capsules/day.


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## Blooming Lotus (May 6, 2007)

Hypergylcodemia is not a psuedo anything. I discovered the term in the last few weeks  while I was trying to find why in my hepatic fulminance  i keep nearly ( literally and every few days or so)dyying from metabolic intolerance ,  fats and most complex carbs kept registering in my body as a nuecrosis. .. or dangerous pathonogen sending me into painful death fits. 

I guess i must have the spelling wrong ... despite would you believe even sifting through my recent paper work over it.( shrug.)

If you have to do oils and fats, omega 3's and maybe even flaxeed are the goods. I personally plan to get mine from moshed yams in sushi seaweed sheets because I think it's a better source. Butt .. the reality is that alot of extremists just dont dooo fats for really extended periods... hence certain ppl running into things like hyperadrenalism and hyperthyriodism and overtraining and infertility and so on and worse forth. ..but if you don't get it and us then you don't. If you have nothing to say that 'll help us , then  it makes nooo difference to us whaat you say.

i don't do clap trap and I don't extrapolate. I read and study alot though so sometimes I loose track of terms for overload and giving a feeling like I 'd have to give long snot about it...  as prima donna as that might be. 
i don't want or need to tread on toes of ppl here with 'cred' anyway because I see where they are or have messed themselves up health or math wise or whatever so I guess I'll just keep it to myself  and on professional circuits. God. If that's your picture in the avi shot, then it would likely insult my intelligence to even take you seriously about very much.
sorry .

And I didn't say dietary carbs produce glucose, I said everything we eat does.
What is a calory and how do we milk energy from it?? What is energy from food? .. 

Forget it.@)...and yes. when I hear stupid shit i get humor bypassedness . old .tired. better spending my energy on me and preserving my youth and charmingly attractive geneage.. whatever.

Blooming tianshi Lotus.


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## Nigeepoo (May 7, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> Hypergylcodemia is not a psuedo anything. I discovered the term in the last few weeks while I was trying to find why in my hepatic fulminance  i keep nearly ( literally and every few days or so)dyying from metabolic intolerance,  fats and most complex carbs kept registering in my body as a nuecrosis. .. or dangerous pathonogen sending me into painful death fits.


You don't sound too well. Are you sure that you have correctly diagnosed your problem? 


Blooming Lotus said:


> God. If that's your picture in the avi shot, then it would likely insult my intelligence to even take you seriously about very much. sorry.


Ooh, an insult! I love a bit of banter. Do you have the courage of your convictions to put up a recent picture of you in your avi? Mine was taken on 3rd March 2007. I'm 52 years old, so I'm not doing too bad for an old-un am I? I'm in much better health than you are, so who should be taking whom seriously? EDIT: Oh, and by the way, did you know that the "ad-hominem" attack (personal insult) is an extremely poor debating tactic and is usually used by the person losing the debate as a last resort. Just so's you know. 


Blooming Lotus said:


> And I didn't say dietary carbs produce glucose, I said everything we eat does.
> What is a calory and how do we milk energy from it?? What is energy from food? ..


Let's be a little quantitative about this. 100% of starch ends up as blood glucose. 50% of sucrose ends up as glucose, the other 50% ending up as fructose. About 53% of proteins can end up as glucose (if not used for muscle growth). About 5% of fats ends up as glucose (derived from the glycerol backbone). Are you familiar with fatty acid oxidation? 


Blooming Lotus said:


> Forget it.@)...and yes. when I hear stupid shit i get humor bypassedness . old .tired. better spending my energy on me and preserving my youth and charmingly attractive geneage.. whatever.
> Blooming tianshi Lotus.


Yeah, whatever! Show us your photo. Self praise is no recommendation!


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## Witchblade (May 7, 2007)

Just a note about the 'nigeepoo doesn't look buff so he shouldn't be giving advice' thingy. Nigeepoo clearly knows his shit, so I' for one am taking advice from him.

Just a note. Now please go on fidgeting, this is good learning material tbh.


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## Blooming Lotus (May 7, 2007)

Nigeepoo said:


> You don't sound too well. Are you sure that you have correctly diagnosed your problem?
> Ooh, an insult! I love a bit of banter. Do you have the courage of your convictions to put up a recent picture of you in your avi? Mine was taken on 3rd March 2007. I'm 52 years old, so I'm not doing too bad for an old-un am I? I'm in much better health than you are, so who should be taking whom seriously? EDIT: Oh, and by the way, did you know that the "ad-hominem" attack (personal insult) is an extremely poor debating tactic and is usually used by the person losing the debate as a last resort. Just so's you know.
> Let's be a little quantitative about this. 100% of starch ends up as blood glucose. 50% of sucrose ends up as glucose, the other 50% ending up as fructose. About 53% of proteins can end up as glucose (if not used for muscle growth). About 5% of fats ends up as glucose (derived from the glycerol backbone). Are you familiar with fatty acid oxidation?
> Yeah, whatever! Show us your photo. Self praise is no recommendation!




I have no issue with how you look. I am much younger though so I'm hoping to at your age have planned and be living a life where I've done better in terms of health and fitness. Excuse me for being honest... I feel that about the majority of older ppl I encounter on many levels.
AS far as personal attack and poor debating goes, that is exactly what I meant in regard to the "ner' comment... and yes I saw the 'last resort' swipe in it. 
The rest I'm not even going to address atm for it's ashatted ignorance considering what myself and my daughter and friends and family have been through and how I've had to change mine and my daughters life about it and what it means to my work options and daily routine structure and so forth and no you can't have a photo. 
If I can be bothered and stumble back across my notes about it I'll come back to it. 
oh and Self-praise ( or rather acknowledgement) is a neccessary evil... helps me take care of myself...yep.. all in the NLP..


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## tucker01 (May 8, 2007)

Hmmm looks to me like someone got there ass handed to them, and couldn't back up there statements.

Tuck that tail between your legs and walk away.


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## Plateau_Max (May 8, 2007)

Hey look everyone... we built this city on rock and roll.  Nigeepoo is just another example of someone who does their research before posting.  I wish everyone would follow suit.


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## Blooming Lotus (May 8, 2007)

> gluconeogenesis formation of sugar from protein or fat when insufficient carbohydrate is available [end quote]
> 
> Glossary of Terms and Acronyms - Resources - Hepatitis C: Nutrition Care - Canadian Guidelines for Health Care Workers - Health Canada - Hepatitis C
> 
> ...


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## zonaguy03 (May 8, 2007)




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## tucker01 (May 8, 2007)

Whatchou talk'n bout willis?


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## Nigeepoo (May 9, 2007)

For those that want to learn how the human body's metabolic processes work, may I recommend "Metabolism at a Glance" by J.G. Salway, Senior Lecturer in Medical Biochemistry, University of Surrey, Guildford, UK. See Amazon.com: Metabolism at a Glance (At a Glance): Books: Jack Salway
It's the mutt's nuts. 

Having advised people on diet & nutrition for about 4 years, I have found three common dietary deficiencies, all of which can adversely affect mental function in one way or another. From examining people's diets, some people have one deficiency, some have two and some have all three. 

1) Lack of omega-3 EFAs. I've already posted omega-3 links. I recommend 2g/day of EPA+DHA. 

2) Lack of Vitamin D, see Entrez PubMed , Randomized comparison of the effects of the vitamin D3 adequate intake versus 100 mcg (4000 IU) per day on biochemical responses and the wellbeing of patients , Hypovitaminosis D in British adults at age 45 y: nationwide cohort study of dietary and lifestyle predictors -- Hyppönen and Power 85 (3): 860 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition and The urgent need to recommend an intake of vitamin D that is effective -- Vieth et al. 85 (3): 649 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 
I recommend 20iu/kg bodyweight/day of Vitamin D3, NOT D2. 

3) Lack of magnesium. If little raw veg is eaten or if cooked veg is over-boiled, magnesium deficiency is likely. This can cause muscle cramps and/or a stressed-out feeling. I recommend 300mg/day of magnesium amino acid chelate, or 450mg/day of magnesium oxide. 

For 6 years, I suffered with 2) and was put on 3 different anti-depressants over the years. I'm on 2,000iu/day of D3 now and fit as a butcher's dog. Salt deficiency is rare as is iodine deficiency, as all table salt is iodised nowadays. Cheers, Nige.


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## Blooming Lotus (May 9, 2007)

I'm sure there are ppl herewith muuch more knowledge than both of us...about one thing or other...
 I personally have been qualified and advising ppl in diet exercise and nutritional health since I was 17. I'm now 32. 
I knoww you have no idea where I'm coming from and particularly in regard to certain 'anti-health predispositional risks' that elite athletes and b.b.'s face down the track ( unless you'd like to tell us of your time as an elite athlete and such forth) and other things that need to be corrected in their lives to avoid and cater for these types of demands and it is a damming shame that it gets so hard to painlessly help ppl get informed. This is nott stuff most ppl will likely see need for until it becomes pertinnent to themselves. It's a horrible to me that it has to be affter their health and lives collapse first... One can but try. 
Que sera.

Blooming tianshi Lotus.


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## Nigeepoo (May 10, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> I'm sure there are ppl herewith muuch more knowledge than both of us...about one thing or other...
> I personally have been qualified and advising ppl in diet exercise and nutritional health since I was 17. I'm now 32.


What qualifications did you have at the age of 17?





Blooming Lotus said:


> I knoww you have no idea where I'm coming from


You got that right, and vice-versa.





Blooming Lotus said:


> and particularly in regard to certain 'anti-health predispositional risks' that elite athletes and b.b.'s face down the track ( unless you'd like to tell us of your time as an elite athlete and such forth)


I'm not an elite athlete, as you well know.





Blooming Lotus said:


> and other things that need to be corrected in their lives to avoid and cater for these types of demands and it is a damming shame that it gets so hard to painlessly help ppl get informed. This is nott stuff most ppl will likely see need for until it becomes pertinnent to themselves. It's a horrible to me that it has to be affter their health and lives collapse first... One can but try. Que sera.
> Blooming tianshi Lotus.


O.K. To quote from your earlier post:- 
"Hypergylcodemia is not a psuedo anything. I discovered the term in the last few weeks while I was trying to find why in my hepatic fulminance i keep nearly ( literally and every few days or so) dyying from metabolic intolerance , fats and most complex carbs kept registering in my body as a nuecrosis. .. or dangerous pathonogen sending me into painful death fits."

Would you care to explain what that's all about? Who diagnosed hepatic fulminance? What are "painful death fits"? Why are you advising others on diet, exercise & nutritional health when your health seems to be extremely poor. Doctor, heal thyself! 

I may be unfit by your standards as I don't train, but since I corrected the Vitamin D3 deficiency in March 2007, my physical & mental health have been excellent. Before then, my physical health was good but I was mentally-challenged. So, who's getting it right and who's getting it wrong? Cheers, Nige.


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## motiv8ed (May 10, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> oh and Self-praise ( or rather acknowledgement) is a neccessary evil... helps me take care of myself...yep.. all in the NLP..



You a practioner?


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## Blooming Lotus (May 10, 2007)

Of course I am. I think anyone who is aware of how they communicate with themselves and what it produces in their lives is. Anthony Robbins and my billionaire uncle are likely mostly to blame for that. It's not a bad thing to be kind to yourself and tell yourself positive things. Much better than beating yourself up anyway.

Nig,
When I was 17 I started with a 'fitness leaders' course and then picked up some basic nutrition and fitness courses and so on and went on from there.

It has been several doctors who have diagnosed me. . and co-incidently since I waas about 17, and most recently one has written me a report saying that if I don't eat in xyz fashion, in lieu of garbage medication I refuse to take, that it's likely I won't have to die from the condition.
I explained that to you here, and the above reason why it was hesitantly, because it was of the context of how fats and sugars effect our bodies and certain processes as they break down.
I am well aware that various ppl around here have certain things that they need to cater for themselves in regard to predispositions of health because of how we've treated our bodies, unbesknownst at the time we were doing it or otherwise. I believe that alot of that is due to and can be avoided or repaired by eating for those specific considerations. I am a huuge fan or eating well for long term health. 
In ppl who take alot of supplements or steroids, or even have a long term diet mostly low or free of fats and have a low sugar or carb intake, alot of metaboic and sympathetic systemary issues appear for those ppl down the track.  I believe if ppl had more information to plan with better foresite, it could help ppl to have a better quality of life and be able to manage and maintain their fitness and health for longer more effective periods. 
I'm sorry if you feel like I'm attacking you because that is not the case.
From your picture I don't neccessarily believe you arre in ideal health and fitness but if you have corrected your owwn most pressing health issues with simple dietary modifications then I salute you for it.
AS far as my owwn health goes, it is Only through eating clean and taking extra health precautions that I avoid my own early death. As it turns out, this leads me to have an abundance of health and energy to burn during fitness pursuits and god knows it might mean I end up living until I'm 120 and exercising likely until my saggy old body is ready to never get up again.
Enough of that anyway. I'm sure we have better ways in life to spend our attentions than to argue so that's all from me.

Blooming tianshi Lotus.


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## motiv8ed (May 10, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> Of course I am. I think anyone who is aware of how they communicate with themselves and what it produces in their lives is. Anthony Robbins and my billionaire uncle are likely mostly to blame for that. It's not a bad thing to be kind to yourself and tell yourself positive things. Much better than beating yourself up anyway.



Enlightened answer


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## Nigeepoo (May 12, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> Nig,
> When I was 17 I started with a 'fitness leaders' course and then picked up some basic nutrition and fitness courses and so on and went on from there.
> Blooming tianshi Lotus.


So your qualifications in the field of diet, nutrition, fitness & lifestyle are....? 

I only have a BSc(Hons)Eng at the moment, but I have signed-up for a course by Future Fit Training Ltd (accredited by the UK Nutrition Society) to study for a Nutrition Specialist Diploma. Cheers, Nige.


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## P-funk (May 12, 2007)

Nigeepoo said:


> So your qualifications in the field of diet, nutrition, fitness & lifestyle are....?
> 
> I only have a BSc(Hons)Eng at the moment, but I have signed-up for a course by Future Fit Training Ltd (accredited by the UK Nutrition Society) to study for a Nutrition Specialist Diploma. Cheers, Nige.



What sort of licencing does that give you in the UK?  Is it similiar to a registered dietician over here?  Or is it more comparable to someone who studies human nutrition and becomes a certified nutritionist (with a degree in nutrition)?

good luck.


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## Nigeepoo (May 13, 2007)

According to Future Fit:- 

"As a Nutrition Specialist, you will be able to provide advice on Nutrition and Weight Management and Sports Nutrition. You could set up Nutrition and Weight Management Clinics on a group or one-to-one basis as well as providing advice to Sports Clubs and teams."

It's better than being a Nutritionist (which anyone in the UK can be without qualifications) but not as good as being a Registered Dietitian. I won't have any letters after my name, but I will get a framed diploma to hang on my wall. 

As an ex-electronic engineer, I'm investigating building my own metabolic testing facility which will give me an advantage over other advisors as I will be able to measure kcals burned/min, fat grams burned/min & carb grams burned/min at different exercise intensities as well as the VOmax of my clients. It's a difficult project, though!


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## P-funk (May 13, 2007)

Nigeepoo said:


> According to Future Fit:-
> 
> "As a Nutrition Specialist, you will be able to provide advice on Nutrition and Weight Management and Sports Nutrition. You could set up Nutrition and Weight Management Clinics on a group or one-to-one basis as well as providing advice to Sports Clubs and teams."
> 
> ...





Why not just do a degree program if you are going to invest all that time?

So, they have RD's across the pond?


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## Blooming Lotus (May 13, 2007)

Nigeepoo said:


> So your qualifications in the field of diet, nutrition, fitness & lifestyle are....?
> 
> I only have a BSc(Hons)Eng at the moment, but I have signed-up for a course by Future Fit Training Ltd (accredited by the UK Nutrition Society) to study for a Nutrition Specialist Diploma. Cheers, Nige.



Nothing overly fabulous atm.  ..

I have though a faather who was a world class athlete,.. whom I trained with evvvery bloody day mind you from a tiny wee chick who I got some information and gentics off until I found some gousto enough to get to  a world stage level myself:/.......not  something evvveryone really gets privy to outside of what tightknit here or there "who'd ya know and how tight are you ?" contact.. I also do pretty well at virtually aaanything physical( or academic just quietly blush &  ) I put my attention into.. and .. I know how to be and how to strructure for international athleticism both in diet and exercise programming.....and.. lifestyle and head garbage .. hurdles( ??!)....

atm I'm going for a Masters of high performance science.. ontop every other b.s. qualifixation I have in whole or part on god knows whaat manner of broasdscale "welcome to life " enthusiasm.. but I think It ( the MhpSc or MExScMSSc)covers quite  a good scope of variety on it but I also have interests in bio-med and pharmacology and medcine and crap and even surgery if we get me started.. but god knows where I'll end up with on those..  yaay post grad options   :/.. live long huh l-).

What you're doing sounds quite cool Niggey.. if you could do that and recoup and recover some more health and fitness of your own.. .. that would be cool enough to take you more peeredly too... You have to be able to and demonstrating youu can do it for me to call it ......... practical and youurself onto something I want to know  as viable for whatever ....It's not easy makinbg world stageage.
Pls don't feel insulted though..I'm just snobby like that about armchair critique stuff like that.. when ..i'm not being .. welcomingly umbrellary and genrous,.. thaat's what iii look for in someone I see astalking good hard solid sense!( shrug for a quiet what's who when why hi) . Why nOt a post grad degree instead diploma??.. they're kinda 1/2 assed and half jokey to alot of ppl  .. don't doo that to yourself for the sake of a yr or so.. if.. you don't want to. 
..what arre your goals exactly with this?..??

Blooming tianshi lotus.


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## Blooming Lotus (May 14, 2007)

*found it .*

Nigeepoo,

I found a link to what I was trying to describe. Firstly, let me say that I was wrong.. i meant hypertriglyceridemia and not what ever else I said. I guess I'll just have to blush and you"ll just have to sue me on it if it matters.

Bearing in mind that my recommendation was the addition of kelp and now maybe even L-Carnitine as preventatory measures , Here are some links explaining how ppl on strict regimes exercising and dieting themselves into a later metabolic or other systemary disorder may become afflicted and what it all means, particularly in terms of salt/ fats and carbs. I aam talking long term and health and in terms of adjustments or considerations to daily plans and both sides of the argument are presented here. Knowing the risks that b.b.'s and elite athletes quietly behind the scenes put their bodies and long term health in, and being empathetic and sharring some of those, it is theese types of reasons that I try to look out for ppl who don't know. Make what you like of it. Enjoy the read.

causes of hypertriglyceridemia - Google Search

carbs and fats as causes of hypertriglyceridemia - Google Search

hypertriglyceridemia and body building - Google Search

hypertriglyceridemia and bodybuilding - Google Search

My bad on the initial terminology. 

Blooming tianshi Lotus


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## Nigeepoo (May 15, 2007)

P-funk said:


> Why not just do a degree program if you are going to invest all that time?


It's not *that* much time. It's 3 modules  consisting of a 3-day workshop + 12-week follow-up over the internet, 12 weeks correspondence course over the internet and a 16-20 hours correspondence course over the internet.





P-funk said:


> So, they have RD's across the pond?


RD is a title attained by degree and are the people that the NHS employ. I don't intend to go that far - I'm not looking for a proper job as I've retired and want to take things a bit easier for a while. I've only just recovered from a 6-year long deficiency in Vitamin D3 which rotted my brain-power something chronic.


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## Nigeepoo (May 15, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> Nigeepoo,
> I found a link to what I was trying to describe. Firstly, let me say that I was wrong.. i meant hypertriglyceridemia and not what ever else I said. I guess I'll just have to blush and you"ll just have to sue me on it if it matters.
> Blooming tianshi Lotus


Don't worry, I won't sue you. By an amazing co-incidence, I've had hypertriglyceridaemia, a.k.a. hypertriacylglycerolaemia. 

When I was low-carbing, my serum TGs were 1.78mmol/L in Sept 2002. Someone on the BBC Health Boards convinced me that some carbs were "good" carbs e.g. oatmeal, rye breads etc so I introduced them into my diet as an experiment. This was in 2003. My weight went up by 2.5 stones (35lbs) and my TGs went up to 4.98mmol/L. As the upper RR limit is 1.8mmol/L, this was bad news. 

267mg/day of micronised Fenofibrate lowered TGs a bit but they were still around 3mmol/L. Niaspan caused horrendous flushes so that was stopped. Eventually, I said that enough was enough and I went back to low-carbing. I lost 35lbs and at my last blood test in Dec 2006, my TGs were 1.62mmol/L on no medication. 

Dietary fats cause transient hypertriglyceridaemia as they are absorbed into the lymphatic system and pumped around the body. Dietary carbs on the other hand cause chronic hypertriglyceridaemia as the liver converts excess glucose into TGs once liver glycogen stores are full, and muscle cells convert excess glucose into TGs once muscle glycogen stores are full. "Fat-burners" should not be on high-carb diets. I'm a fat-burner. 

Hypertriglyceridaemia is bad news for your LDL cholesterol particles. See Everything You Wanted To Know About Cholesterol & Coronary Heart Disease Cheers, Nige.


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## Blooming Lotus (May 15, 2007)

Nigeepoo said:


> It's not *that* much time. It's 3 modules  consisting of a 3-day workshop + 12-week follow-up over the internet, 12 weeks correspondence course over the internet and a 16-20 hours correspondence course over the internet.RD is a title attained by degree and are the people that the NHS employ. I don't intend to go that far - I'm not looking for a proper job as I've retired and want to take things a bit easier for a while. I've only just recovered from a 6-year long deficiency in Vitamin D3 which rotted my brain-power something chronic.




Motivation for it is always but without beeing dogmatic Nigeepoo, if it iis an interest of yours and you have time be leisurely about it, .. and at onnly 52 ( ) and doo want to contribute..  what you're doing doesn't really cater for that. You obviously have some soo much more potential for ppl about this kind of thing, and if you're not really doing anything else anyway, it'd be a shame to not see you do something further with it. .. just because you like to if nothing else.
Those over-the -net courses are are a JOKe in reeal industries concerned with it.. even if by the end you doo know what you're saying.. it doesn't wash and it looses it point. That's why ii at 32 am now back doing a freaking masters programe to pay for a ph.d in a whole other field( re-writing formal education syllabus mind you ) mind you . I just figure it's best to do it properly and all if I'm going to bother.
Enough of that though.
Blooming tianshi lotus.


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## Blooming Lotus (May 15, 2007)

Nigeepoo said:


> Don't worry, I won't sue you. By an amazing co-incidence, I've had hypertriglyceridaemia, a.k.a. hypertriacylglycerolaemia.
> 
> When I was low-carbing, my serum TGs were 1.78mmol/L in Sept 2002. Someone on the BBC Health Boards convinced me that some carbs were "good" carbs e.g. oatmeal, rye breads etc so I introduced them into my diet as an experiment. This was in 2003. My weight went up by 2.5 stones (35lbs) and my TGs went up to 4.98mmol/L. As the upper RR limit is 1.8mmol/L, this was bad news.
> 
> ...




What is that???!?.. a glycy blood clotting "disorder" of suagrs and plasmic garbage???..aand long term vit d deficiency?.. ooh.:/ ... mineral defficiencies are sooo bad long term.. ppl just don't often realise the real potential conditions they face by neglecting things like that... sounds.. gluggy anyway.. or maybe a vitamin thing to offset that mineral cloggature (  ) is pretty well equally as bad. Isn't it always the smallest things that make such a big difference.@).

Anyway, good carbs or not.. if you eat more of those than you intend to burn, you arre going to put on weight .. and probably use room in your gut that could've been used for better nourishment otherwise. Carb abuse is rediculous imo. .. howevver.. without budget and education to do differently, it is difficult. .. and you're right.. it all equals sugars and lowered immunity and higher infection and bacteria playground so there's that to think about too. yet we neeed at least some of them sometimes to be healthy nonetheless.  Good health can be tricky.
On the serum and TG levels, that's why I'm so big on supplements and protein shakes/ low complex carb and big on fruits and veg and estringents  .. it 's nouriishing but I don't get all that excess sugarage sticking around ( providing I do the lemon and soda water and maybe dry red wine and fibre supps to keep it all happy and moving)... i just have to do it ( eat) more often is all. Sometimes between shakes and meals and snacks I could look at 8-12 serves over a full waking day..and I stiiil weigh 44-7 kgs and have ( except when I was pregnant) since I was finishing high school. .something every 2 hrs or usually works okay.
 I highly recommend you give it a burl. You'll probably even drop a few kg and feel a little better if that entices you at all.
Do you knoww what cholesterol iis Nigeepoo? It's extra yardage of tissue your heart has to pump through . tissue is made by complex carb .. if you're not on a high carb plan.. cholesterol should never be an issue.. unless you eat saturated fat every day every meal almost.. that's why it relates to blood pressure.  EFAs get a greeeat wrap here so I imagine that most ppl doing those are fairly safe on good lubes in iit's regard.. and for those that dont.. that's why I push the seaweed and tapioca or yams.. because it's a whole other way to go about it. I have nooo bleeding intention of taking 70 gms of fat per day!!.,god.. I'd be dead within a month just about!. .. I wouldn't do it anyway. I eat 10 gm and under a day 5-7 days a week every week bar when i decide I want otherwise which could be days in a row or not for weeks.. aand I magine I might not be the only one ( for whatever reason )not prepared to do that much daily fat neither. ..hence the alternative suggestion. I 'm also huuuge on mineral salts.. like the liquid you get in tuna in spring water.. love that.. 
To get your LDL cholesterol to regain it's co-operation , all it takes is lemon juice and some olive oil or whatever's in your seaweed ( and yes it's omega 3 and some mineral boost) and all is well.
I once many moons ago , ontop of my fitness leaders and nutrition and godknows what other courses, did part of a chefs apprenticeship or two off the back of part of a diploma of hospitality management and ended up head cooking for 200 ppl 3 x a day including for  special needs customers for a good cpl of yrs. .. and then met them in the gym a cpl of times a day and or night to take them through that. busy times i guess. 
Anyway, point is that alternatives are always reallly handy to have up your sleeve. .and imo , it's always nice to know what those might be .


Blooming tianshi lotus.


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## Nigeepoo (May 16, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> ...and I stiiil weigh 44-7 kgs and have ( except when I was *pregnant*) since I was finishing high school...
> Blooming tianshi lotus.


The penny finally drops. You're a girl! No wonder we've had problems communicating.  Did you say that you also have hypertriglyceridaemia? I only became deficient in Vitamin D after I got Internet access 7 years ago and virtually stopped going outside during the day. So, what did you think of my article on Cholesterol and Coronary Heart Disease? Cheers, Nige.


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## Blooming Lotus (May 16, 2007)

Close enough.   ..
Interesting article though. After I 'spoke with you' about this and thought about your comment on vit D deficiency and brain rot from too long without it, and your comment on how it caused you to put on weight, having half in interest in basic nuero science and chem ( as one might) and in how and why ppl put on and loose weight,  It got me thinking and brought back to mind a series of research reports I came across regarding calcium and fat loss. 
Calcium, Weight Loss & Fat Loss
Bodybuilding.com - Mauro Di Pasquale - Fat Loss - Effects Of Calcium, Magnesium, Vitamin D.

which together with thiis 

[quote  Calcium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]
as a reducing agent in the extraction of other metals, such as uranium, zirconium, and thorium. 
as a deoxidizer, desulfurizer, or decarbonizer for various ferrous and nonferrous alloys. 
as an alloying agent used in the production of aluminium, beryllium, copper, lead, and magnesium alloys. 
in the making of cements and mortars to be used in construction. 

and this 
Cholesterol - encyclopedia article about Cholesterol.

and thiis image from your link

(  see images @ bottom of pg)
Nutrition, Health & Heart Disease; Cause & Prevention

bearing in mind that cholesterol as a celluar plaque and vit d and calcium relate to the endocrine system ( and production of brain and nerve stabilising chemical and hormone production.. and how thaat relates to the pancreas as a blood filter lube), I guess I can see the link between it all fairly easily.
It still imo comes down to heavy element cell suffocating toxicity though and there are soo many ways to do that ourselves. whether or not that toxification and cell suffocation comes from an oxidation of triglyercides from fats 
triglyceride oxidation - Google Search
or from sugars 
triglyceridemia and sugar - Google Search
it still means that there are things in there suffocating and things that arent able to perform their job...thereby effecting whole other systems that depend on them doing that.
To answer your question, no. I'm not typically hypertriglyceridemic. ..but when I do a refeed  that involves over a certain gm itake of fat tOgether with grainey complex carbs, or a big refined sugar and grained complex carb combo, I doo get chronic hypertriglyceridemia because of my liver condition, and go into liver failure of which thee only way out is too drink and flush and eat exactly what I need to to get it all out of my body asap. Doesn't stop me tryying sometimes dammit! 90 or so % of ppl who that happens to, die directly fromm that liver failing. I'm lucky to have had the information or been able to work out what to do...and have a reason to as it's  sometimes come down to.


I usually personally get my vit d mainly from my milk 
Products and Recipes - PhysiCAL
.. and I dont buy other brands ..even iif they're no fat mainly for that reason ( shrug). 
Having that type of material in our bodies not being able to be flushed or used is a pretty clear picture to me.

Apology for the long post anyway. hope it helps clarify .

Blooming tianshi Lotus


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## tucker01 (May 17, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> I usually personally get my vit d mainly from my milk
> Products and Recipes - PhysiCAL
> .. and I dont buy other brands ..even iif they're no fat mainly for that reason ( shrug).
> Having that type of material in our bodies not being able to be flushed or used is a pretty clear picture to me.
> ...



Unless Milk is fortified there is next to nothing in Vit D.  Even then the product you listed per 100ml is 5% of the Recommended amount.

Fatty fishes seem to be an excellent source of Vit D, the reason why Cod Liver Oil is suggested as a supp for us nothern folks during the winter months, as sunlight is minimal.

Salmon, Sardines, Tuna, Makeral are also excellent sources of Vit D.  That and Sunlight.

Any dairy products will need to be fortified.


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## Witchblade (May 17, 2007)

Nigeepoo said:


> The penny finally drops. You're a girl!


How could you miss that?


----------



## Nigeepoo (May 17, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> Close enough.   ..
> Interesting article though. After I 'spoke with you' about this and thought about your comment on vit D deficiency and brain rot from too long without it, and your comment on how it caused you to put on weight, having half in interest in basic nuero science and chem ( as one might) and in how and why ppl put on and loose weight,  It got me thinking and brought back to mind a series of research reports I came across regarding calcium and fat loss.


The massive weight gain/loss was from eating/not eating carbs, not a lack/sufficiency of Vitamin D3. Taking 2,000iu/day of D3 has not affected my weight significantly. 

Accumulation of calcium within the intima & adventitia of artery walls is aggravated by a lack of Vitamin K2. See Dietary Intake of Menaquinone Is Associated with a Reduced Risk of Coronary Heart Disease: The Rotterdam Study -- Geleijnse et al. 134 (11): 3100 -- Journal of Nutrition 

Suffice it to say, I supplement with Vitamin K2 from VRP. 

Unless you eat an Eskimo diet of whales, seals & oily fish all the time, you can't get enough D3 from the food you eat. See Hypovitaminosis D in British adults at age 45 y: nationwide cohort study of dietary and lifestyle predictors -- Hyppönen and Power 85 (3): 860 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition and The urgent need to recommend an intake of vitamin D that is effective -- Vieth et al. 85 (3): 649 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 

A lack of D3 can impair glucose homeostasis, see Vitamin D Status and Glucose Homeostasis in the 1958 British Birth Cohort: The role of obesity -- Hyppönen and Power 29 (10): 2244 -- Diabetes Care 

You only need ~20 minutes/day of full-body sun exposure at the right time of day (see VitD-ez Easy Duration of Vitamin D Synthesis in Human Skin for a calculator that shows from what start time to what stop time you should get your ~20 minutes of sun exposure to get D3 synthesis in your skin.) to get 10,000iu/day of D3. 

Cheers, Nige.


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## Nigeepoo (May 17, 2007)

Witchblade said:


> How could you miss that?


O.K. What clues did I miss?


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## Blooming Lotus (May 17, 2007)

IainDaniel said:


> Unless Milk is fortified there is next to nothing in Vit D.  Even then the product you listed per 100ml is 5% of the Recommended amount.
> 
> Fatty fishes seem to be an excellent source of Vit D, the reason why Cod Liver Oil is suggested as a supp for us nothern folks during the winter months, as sunlight is minimal.
> 
> ...



Even at 5 % RDA( ?) , milk being such a main source of nourishment, with the amount that I do drink each day ( 1-2 L give or take ideally most 24 hr periods), at worst I make the IOM ( Instistute of Medicine) 's AI ( adequate ( daily)  intake) juust on milk alone.. and that's before I even step outside. handy to know though for those times that might not happen.

Here are some intake and source charts they put together


[quote Dietary Supplement Fact Sheet: Vitamin D  ]



Although milk is fortified with vitamin D, dairy products made from milk, such as cheese and ice creams, are generally not fortified with vitamin D and contain only small amounts. Some ready-to-eat breakfast cereals may be fortified with vitamin D, often at a level of 10% to 15% of the Daily Value*. There are only a few commonly consumed foods that are good sources of vitamin D [4]. Suggested dietary sources of vitamin D are listed in Table 1. 

Table 1: Selected food sources of vitamin D [10-12]Food International Units(IU) per serving Percent DV* 
Cod liver oil, 1 Tablespoon 1,360 340 
Salmon, cooked, 3½ ounces 360 90 
Mackerel, cooked, 3½ ounces 345 90 
Tuna fish, canned in oil, 3 ounces 200 50 
Sardines, canned in oil, drained, 1¾ ounces 250 70 
Milk, nonfat, reduced fat, and whole, vitamin D fortified, 1 cup  98 25 
Margarine, fortified, 1 Tablespoon 60 15 
Pudding, prepared from mix and made with vitamin D fortified milk, ½ cup 50 10 
Ready-to-eat cereals fortified with 10% of the DV for vitamin D, ¾ cup to 1 cup servings (servings vary according to the brand) 40 10 
Egg, 1 whole (vitamin D is found in egg yolk) 20 6 
Liver, beef, cooked, 3½ ounces 15 4 
Cheese, Swiss, 1 ounce 12 4 

*DV = Daily Value. DVs are reference numbers developed by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to help consumers determine if a food contains a lot or a little of a specific nutrient. The DV for vitamin D is 400 IU (10 μg) for adults. Most food labels do not list vitamin D content unless a food has been fortified with this nutrient. The percent DV (%DV) listed on the table above tells you the percent of the DV provided in one serving. A food providing 5% of the DV or less is a low source while a food that provides 10-19% of the DV is a good source and a food that provides 20% or more of the DV is high in that nutrient. It is important to remember that foods that provide lower percentages of the DV also contribute to a healthful diet. For foods not listed in this table, please refer to the U.S. Department of Agriculture???s Nutrient Database Web site: Redirect to Fisheries.


The IOM determined there was insufficient scientific information to establish a RDA for vitamin D. Instead, the recommended intake is listed as an Adequate Intake (AI), which represents the daily vitamin D intake that should maintain bone health and normal calcium metabolism in healthy people. 

AIs for vitamin D may be listed on food and dietary supplement labels as either micrograms (μg) or International Units (IU). The biological activity of 1 μg vitamin D is equal to 40 IUs [4]. AIs for vitamin D for infants, children, and adults, are listed in table 2 in micrograms and IUs [4].

Table 2: Adequate Intake for vitamin D for infants, children, and adults [4]Age Children
(μg/day) Men
(μg/day) Women
(μg/day) Pregnancy
(μg/day) Lactation
(μg/day) 
Birth to 13 years 5
(=200 IU)         
14 to 18 years   5
(=200 IU) 5
(=200 IU) 5
(=200 IU) 5
(=200 IU) 
19 to 50 years   5
(=200 IU) 5
(=200 IU) 5
(=200 IU) 5
(=200 IU) 
51 to 70 years   10
(=400 IU) 10
(=400 IU)     
71+ years   15
(=600 IU) 15
(=600 IU)   

[end quote]

Anything I intake calcium wise that isn't absorbded, is flushed by my particularism about eating and drinking for blood and organ cleansing and isn't a problem neither. It iis another source and for ppl who for whatever reason don't gett outside for extended periods, Imo it's still good  information to have in mind. When you need to be creative, every alternative has potential to  help..


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## Blooming Lotus (May 17, 2007)

Nigeepoo said:


> The massive weight gain/loss was from eating/not eating carbs, not a lack/sufficiency of Vitamin D3. Taking 2,000iu/day of D3 has not affected my weight significantly.
> 
> Accumulation of calcium within the intima & adventitia of artery walls is aggravated by a lack of Vitamin K2. See Dietary Intake of Menaquinone Is Associated with a Reduced Risk of Coronary Heart Disease: The Rotterdam Study -- Geleijnse et al. 134 (11): 3100 -- Journal of Nutrition
> 
> ...


Wow!!.. From the link in my post, the IOM ( institute of medicine ) says 2000iu is thee top end intake a person can max to before putting their health in very serious jeaopardy!.. One extreme to the other is quite radical of you.

On your weight fluctuations regarding your carb intake, and in saying so without knowing whaat exactly gm/bw wise you were considering a low carb intake at the time,.. to me the alternatives that that  had to mean you were consuming, would have had to've meant, given the circumstances, that you weren't looking after your kidneys ( as is one of the top risks associated with low carb eating) and it was thaat that caused or grossly exaccebated your initial problem in reagrd to the effects of the vit d deficiency.. and you took a dbl whammy on it.
It is also likely that because it is often so extremely hard to get adequately nourished as adult on a lowcarb plan, that you put your body into starvation during that period and when you hit it with "all those carbs" , the reaction was that your body still in shock of having been deprived, caused your metabolism to slow down and hold onto evvery extra ounce of whatever it could get.. causing your weight gain.

With sugar carb and fluid and bio-thremal regulation all over the place, it iis no wonder that your blood viscosity and clotting mechanisms also went out in sympathy... It's funny how that works. 

[quote What is Vitamin K?  ]

What does vitamin k do?
Vitamin K is needed for proper bone formation and blood clotting. In both cases, vitamin K does this by helping the body transport calcium. Vitamin K is used by doctors when treating an overdose of the drug warfarin. Also, doctors prescribe vitamin K to prevent excessive bleeding in people taking warfarin but requiring surgery.

There is preliminary evidence that vitamin K2 (menadione), not vitamin K1 (phylloquinone; phytonadione), may improve a group of blood disorders known as myelodysplastic syndromes (MDS).1 These syndromes carry a significantly increased risk of progression to acute myeloid leukemia. Large-scale trials of vitamin K2 for MDS are needed to confirm these promising early results.

Where is vitamin k found?
Leafy green vegetables, such as spinach, kale, collards, and broccoli, are the best sources of vitamin K. The greener the plant, the higher the vitamin K content.2 Other significant dietary sources of vitamin K include soybean oil, olive oil, cottonseed oil, and canola oil.3
[end quote]


AS you can see there are maany great dietary sources to provide adequate vitamin K, and probably even morre so if someone might be low - carbing properly where the particularly green produce intake makes up for the fall out of lowering grainage. 
I think your diet was attrocious!..although being you gott into that condition, it's likely half unneccessary to remind you of that. I'm sure you're likely well aware.  I understand that retrospect is all too ironic, but as long as you're onto it now and recovering and back on track then all is well.
Better late than never though ....good on you for doing it. too too many ppl just let go from there and instead of correcting their health just wait for lack of it to consume them. Sincerely Good for you.  

Blooming tianshi lotus.


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## Nigeepoo (May 18, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> Wow!!.. From the link in my post, the IOM ( institute of medicine ) says 2000iu is thee top end intake a person can max to before putting their health in very serious jeaopardy!.. One extreme to the other is quite radical of you.


For the IOM to state that 2,000iu/day of Vitamin D3 is the max safe intake is nonsense. If you see http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=506781&blobtype=pdf , you'll see that 4,000iu/day didn't increase serum calcium as PTH dropped to compensate. It's statements like that (from the IOM) that results in people being Vitamin D3 deficient if they stay out of the sun. See The urgent need to recommend an intake of vitamin D that is effective -- Vieth et al. 85 (3): 649 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition The fact that the skin can produce 10,000iu/day of D3 further reinforces how nonsensical the IOM's statement is.





Blooming Lotus said:


> On your weight fluctuations regarding your carb intake, and in saying so without knowing whaat exactly gm/bw wise you were considering a low carb intake at the time,.. to me the alternatives that that  had to mean you were consuming, would have had to've meant, given the circumstances, that you weren't looking after your kidneys ( as is one of the top risks associated with low carb eating) and it was thaat that caused or grossly exaccebated your initial problem in reagrd to the effects of the vit d deficiency...and you took a dbl whammy on it.


No. I was low-carbing (~25% of total cals from carbs) since June 1997 without any problems. It was in 1999/2000 that I got internet access and stopped going out during the day, resulting in D3 deficiency which started to affect me in 2001.





Blooming Lotus said:


> It is also likely that because it is often so extremely hard to get adequately nourished as adult on a lowcarb plan, that you put your body into starvation during that period and when you hit it with "all those carbs" , the reaction was that your body still in shock of having been deprived, caused your metabolism to slow down and hold onto evvery extra ounce of whatever it could get.. causing your weight gain.


In my case, eating too much carbs wrecked my appetite control due to rollercoaster blood glucose & insulin levels, so I ate too much. Simple as.





Blooming Lotus said:


> With sugar carb and fluid and bio-thremal regulation all over the place, it iis no wonder that your blood viscosity and clotting mechanisms also went out in sympathy... It's funny how that works.


I never had any clotting problems. I took K2 as I had spinal osteoporosis diagnosed in 2003 and I wanted to make sure that the extra calcium I was taking ended up in my bones & not my arteries or soft tissues.





Blooming Lotus said:


> Where is vitamin k found?
> Leafy green vegetables, such as spinach, kale, collards, and broccoli, are the best sources of vitamin K. The greener the plant, the higher the vitamin K content.2 Other significant dietary sources of vitamin K include soybean oil, olive oil, cottonseed oil, and canola oil.3 AS you can see there are maany great dietary sources to provide adequate vitamin K, and probably even morre so if someone might be low - carbing properly where the particularly green produce intake makes up for the fall out of lowering grainage.


Most veg sources contain K1 only. K2 is much more rare. K2 formed in our guts by bacterial action on K1 is not absorbed as it's in the wrong part of the gut.





Blooming Lotus said:


> I think your diet was attrocious!


Which one? The low-carb one or the high-carb one?





Blooming Lotus said:


> ..although being you gott into that condition, it's likely half unneccessary to remind you of that. I'm sure you're likely well aware.  I understand that retrospect is all too ironic, but as long as you're onto it now and recovering and back on track then all is well.
> Better late than never though ....good on you for doing it. too too many ppl just let go from there and instead of correcting their health just wait for lack of it to consume them. Sincerely Good for you.
> Blooming tianshi lotus.


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## Blooming Lotus (May 18, 2007)

Nigeepoo said:


> so I ate too much. Simple as.
> 
> 
> ......Which one? The low-carb one or the high-carb one?



@). 



Btw, if your body caan produce 10 000 iu /day ..  it's a shame you couldn't get yours to. Stuff your body makes is nOt the same as stuff you take to supplement those things where the protective processes of natural production and progressive metabolism as a result of those processes  means one can doo more of whathaveyou at a safely higher level than if the intake was via supplements . There are soo many factors associated with using high levels safely, from activity to whatever else accompanies those supplements in support that I don't think it's most true to say what you have.  I am going to leave you with it.


Blooming tianshi Lotus.


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## Nigeepoo (May 19, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> @).
> Btw, if your body caan produce 10 000 iu /day ..  it's a shame you couldn't get yours to.


I hate going out in the sun - that's why my body wasn't producing any. Many people spend too much time indoors and become deficient in D3, or live so far North of the equator that the sun isn't strong enough for a lot of the year.





Blooming Lotus said:


> Stuff your body makes is nOt the same as stuff you take to supplement


Actually, it *is* the same. Vitamin D3 is extracted from the lanolin off a sheep's back - the sheep do the sunbathing on my behalf!  Vitamin D2 is the synthetic one. Cheers, Nige.


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## Blooming Lotus (May 19, 2007)

It is nOt the same and to be honest I think It's a reeally damaging thing to say to ppl...especially when they might apply that to other stuff.. but you've never been an elite athlete or tried to be so no doubt you have no fucking idea whaat about it!.!!(  )
I'm not going to argue with you about it though because I don't want to mostly.. 
I barely even know what we're talking about now. Who giives a toss who's right. You messed yourself up and now you say you're okay and thaat is bleeding wOnderful!. Happy for you.

Blooming tianshi lotus.


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## Nigeepoo (May 21, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> It is nOt the same and to be honest I think It's a reeally damaging thing to say to ppl


Sorry, but Vitamin D3 in supp form has the same molecular structure as vitamin D3 made in the skin by sunlight. That's why it's called Vitamin D3 and not Vitamin D2. 





Blooming Lotus said:


> ..especially when they might apply that to other stuff..


If someone jumps to a wrong conclusion, then that's their problem.





Blooming Lotus said:


> but you've never been an elite athlete or tried to be so no doubt you have no fucking idea whaat about it!.!!(  )


Calm down, dear. Being an elite athlete is irrelevant. All humans need basic nutrients for their bodies to work properly.





Blooming Lotus said:


> I'm not going to argue with you about it though because I don't want to mostly..


Don't argue, then. It's not good for your blood-pressure.





Blooming Lotus said:


> I barely even know what we're talking about now. Who giives a toss who's right. You messed yourself up and now you say you're okay and thaat is bleeding wOnderful!. Happy for you.
> Blooming tianshi lotus.


There's nothing left to talk about, so good day. Nige.


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## tucker01 (May 21, 2007)

You are alot bigger of a person then me Nigepoo.  I would have laid a verbal beating from that last post from her.  Not only rude, but extremely ignorant.


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## Nigeepoo (May 21, 2007)

Heh! Maybe it's the Fish Oils, maybe it's the Vit D3, maybe it's the Magnesium or maybe it's just my age, but I don't care how rude or ignorant people are to me anymore. It's only a messageboard! I prefer to let the facts speak for themselves. Cheers, Nige.


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## Blooming Lotus (May 22, 2007)

Exactly. I aim not to let other ppl's negative behaviour get to myyself neither.
and I'm not your 'Dear' and nor is it my name. It's better than " body" I sometimes get called ( @)just quietly..and no I'm not Elle McPherson or anything even clOse to resembling her and no it's not overly fabulous atm .) but I find it patronising and disrepectful twd women for you to address me like that.  you are well aware that I have a name and what it is. It'd be like myself calling you babe,..or hun ( shrug). 

Anyway,.. it may be the same, or end up being the same thing, but what I'm getting at is when ppl take certain supplements, it cuts out some really vital to long term health progressive metabolic processes that stimulate production of other things that serve to protect our bodies and help us to live longer and a better life quality...aand acheive and maintain, imo, better performance quality over longer periods more safely and so on.
I initially came across that notion when  saw a documentary about a doctor / pharmacist in Mexico who was manufacturing steroids for sale to Americans and who was explaining how they worked and what the associated risks were to taking them in that form. That got me looking into a whole host of other things.. including most recently research on NO (nitric oxide) and other supplements or additions to NO products that are designed or included for and around that very concept.
Hearing about that at the time and having had certain issues with my own health surrounding things that I was trying to have not pack up or shut down on mysellf, I aat that very point,  became somewhat endeared to BodyBuilders and what they put themselves through , and right down to whyy they did and do, for that very reason. As I study, it's something that I allways have in mind is quietly important to me to get information out about.  
I did feel .. half short for having had jack that day and saying I didn't want to follow the conversation through so there you go. I acknowledge I did that and it was emotionally slight of me , despiite the fact of how you do or don't get defensive and even immaturely catty and react when you think it may look like you've been made to not look like you're right,..despite whether you are or not ( likely because of your age...and as banefully as so godammed many ppl in your age group doo react ) just because you're insecure about the sum of yourself by now aand despite the patronisation that you've now followed that with. I live with a man right now exaactly the bloody same!
Being able to be empathetic and know what to be concerned about because you've been through it certainly iis relevant. It will always be relevant and open new research doors that would 've otherwise maybe not been  . 


As far as ppl jumping to wrong conclusions, that's why we educate and have these boards and health media and types of discussions at all. Ppl deserve to be informed if we can swing it. .. and dammit if I haven't rested the entire goodness of my sipirt and character on my efforts ( and personal sacrifices otherwise from trying ) to do my best to doo that for the planet. 
If more ppl gave a toss that others diid jump to wrong conclusions.. well maybe the world 'd be in better state to live in for everyone.

At the moment I'm investigating resveratrol ( polyphenol from wine) and it's impact as a protein cataboliser . I probably wouldn't mind hearing what you have to say if and when my conclusions go where I think and hope they might so if you're up for that I'll catch up with you then.

Blooming tianshi lotus.


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## Nigeepoo (May 23, 2007)

O.K. Lotus. May I call you Lotus (as it's your username and I don't know your real name)? 

Please accept that there is a bit of a language barrier between these two sides of the Atlantic, so when we speak colloquially, misunderstandings can happen. I borrowed the "Calm down, dear" line from an e-sure advertisement featuring Michael Winner as it's a funny ad. I have no objection to being called babe or hun and would take it as a compliment. That said.... 

I don't know much about Resveratrol other than it's a polyphenol found in the skins of dark red grapes growing in cold climates. I don't know anything about its effect on protein synthesis/catabolism. I take 600mg/day of red wine powder as one of my supplements (I don't drink alcohol), as red wine polyphenols are good for us, unlike too much alcohol, see Nutrition Source, Harvard School of Public Health 

Protein catabolism doesn't sound like a good thing to me - it suggests muscle loss. 

On the subject of Vitamin & Mineral supplements, I agree that a balance is needed. Large (>10,000iu/day) intakes of Vitamin D3 can result in deficiencies in the other fat-soluble vitamins e.g. A, E complex & K complex. Large (>25g/day) intakes of alpha-linolenic acid can result in deficiencies in omega-6 EFAs as the two fatty acid synthesis pathways share the same enzymes. This is why I suggest taking *reasonable* amounts of such supplements. Cheers, Nige.


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## Blooming Lotus (May 23, 2007)

Personally i think calling someone 'Babe' or 'Hun' comprimises my owwn self professionally. If we were in a meeting where we respected each other, I don't think I'd address you like that. Personal opinion I guess... I just know that men who've wanted to respect me previously think it's selfdemeaning and misleading and presumptious of me to address them that way.( shrug). . and they quietly turn their noses up at being mislead or 'smooched onto' ..which if that was beeing the case, I'd rather just not do it and bank my respect instead... just as when i get called Darl or hun myself I don't like it for pretty much the same reasons.

aanyway,.. 

Protein catabolism is muuch different than catabolising intermuscluarly where your muscularture is what's being degraded. By breaking down dietary proteins in stomache via use of a chemical .. such aas polyphenol from a dry red wine, it expediates the elimination of waste and has the protein reduced into it's amino form maany times faster than if it were to digest naturally which can take any where up to 10 hrs. It also unlocks the energy value much faster... which for myself in lieu of the  complex carbs I can't eat so many of at a time without comprimising my liver ( through a rediculous series of reactions thereafter), that I would otherwise get  more of that longer energy from, together with good simple sourced sugars or even starches and smaller complex hits, helps me to have enough energy to work out with.

by catabolising dietary proteins in that fashion, it also has my proteins reduce to Aginine and L-argine extreemely quickly, and because ofthe amount of protein I doo take, in fairly substantial quantities, which as we know promotes natural nitric oxide reactions ( which relaxes my smooth muscle cells in blood vessels to increase oxygen and nutirient intake and hormone upload capacity..particularly during exercise ) and an expediated production and conversion to Growth Hormone at huuge to otherwise levels for max time throughout that period and thereafter... until I doo a post workout carb and protein combo load and slow it down for a while .. which in turn means that I not only end up with greater muscle density but it also increases my recovery time and the amount of fueled and nourished work I'm able to do .
To have that polyphenol boost at that concentration ( which I allways submit should be enratio to protein intake) helps break down my lymphnodes ( or toxic clusters) so they can be flushed from body as fast as possible, after the additional protein plasma bonds with existing lymphocytes carrying any other bloodular toxins from every cell and organ in my body to come together in a group in the lymph node, leaving my blood clean and my liver and immune system with a better chance of not sh8tting themselves and breaking down on me...proviidding I can do a laxative and an activator ( like a simple sugar ) and get it all out of my body asap after breaking them down before it all starts recirculating and resettling... and hence importance of hydration here.
Because of the way my liver disease works, breaking dowwn my dietary proteins likethat also keeps my liver cells coated in a goood layer of aminos so it doesn't fall apart and scar and turn into cancer.. or just start swelling and spazing from nOt having the protective amino coating and stop working altogther on the spot..kiind of the main instigator of having bothered at all..   . 

Because of the relationship between sugar and complex carbs in slowing down metabolism and digestion of those carbs through insulin interference though, for someone on a high carb intake, which allso btw just quietly loads all types of bacteria precursors and toxic garbage or their owwn if not used and as they're being digested in bi-products of that process, to have that work for them effectively, a polyphenol supplement would be much more ideal. There are studies that have been done around the world I think most recently that I've read coming out of Montreal University that all support the same truth about it.

Thankyou for conceding that 10 000 iu of vit D is nOt an optimum dose for most ppl most of the time...or at leaast that it has potentially dangerous ramifications.  Anyway, thank godd for sports scienists and bio-med students developing our supplements and researching for us, I know that having them has changed my entire life and has imo an extreemely respectworthy place in the world and is a really good thing for our society... good health is horrible to not have .

Cheers right back atchya.

Blooming tianshi Lotus.


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## Nigeepoo (May 24, 2007)

Hi Lotus. 





Blooming Lotus said:


> Protein catabolism is much different than catabolising intermuscluarly where your musculature is what's being degraded. By breaking down dietary proteins in stomach via use of a chemical .. such as polyphenol from a dry red wine, it expediates the elimination of waste and has the protein reduced into its amino form many times faster than if it were to digest naturally which can take anywhere up to 10 hrs.


Ah, you're talking about the digestion of proteins. Here's an article you may find interesting www.humankinetics.com/eJournalMedia/pdfs/5642.pdf


Blooming Lotus said:


> It also unlocks the energy value much faster... which for myself in lieu of the complex carbs I can't eat so many of at a time without compromising my liver (through a ridiculous series of reactions thereafter), that I would otherwise get more of that longer energy from, together with good simple sourced sugars or even starches and smaller complex hits, helps me to have enough energy to work out with.


Do you have a fatty liver? This is related to hypertriglyceridaemia. Maybe your body burns lots of fat and not much carbs which is why dietary carbs are converted into triglycerides. I have such a body which is why a low-carb diet suits me so well.





Blooming Lotus said:


> Because of the relationship between sugar and complex carbs in slowing down metabolism and digestion of those carbs through insulin interference though, for someone on a high carb intake, which also btw just quietly loads all types of bacteria precursors and toxic garbage or their own if not used and as they're being digested in by-products of that process, to have that work for them effectively, a polyphenol supplement would be much more ideal. There are studies that have been done around the world I think most recently that I've read coming out of Montreal University that all support the same truth about it.


I don't understand everything you've typed but if it works for you, use it.





Blooming Lotus said:


> Thank you for conceding that 10 000 iu of vit D is not an optimum dose for most ppl most of the time...or at least that it has potentially dangerous ramifications.  Anyway, thank God for sports scientists and bio-med students developing our supplements and researching for us, I know that having them has changed my entire life and has imo an extremely respect-worthy place in the world and is a really good thing for our society... good health is horrible to not have .
> Cheers right back atchya.
> Blooming tianshi Lotus.


Cheers, Nige.


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## Blooming Lotus (May 24, 2007)

Yap. and wecould go on and on between us for ever..

I aam talking about digestion of proteins, which consering neither of you or myself are big carb eaters - lind of mutually relevant between us and alternative eating plans - but and in regard to the link you posted, it stiill just comes back down to getting enough and assisting things to break down and up load and flushing properly to advoid toxicity of those things and whatever they end up becoming at the end and on the gradual process of break down to their most simple form.. and doing what you can to maximise benifit and exploit them ( and sympathetic hormones and so on)at various points dUring the breakdown process..

I don't have a fatty liver. I have thee single worst strain of hep c and I have had since I was about 17 and caught it from some hot lesbian I was.. doesn't matter @).... but what that means now though is that although I can burrn the carbs easily enough ( and after the amount of exercise Ii do usually in a day you'd want to freaking hope I could ), I just can't get my liver to help me out to break them down.. sugars that take too much effort to get too or stick around unused or counteracted in our bodies is a pretty big no no when it comes to hep c because it interferes with cell protection and when you're talking grains, not enough bile and other stuff is produced to be able to break it down.. so sitting there festering in my stomache in only a really  small amount of juices.. if you think alcohol still.. or liquor brewry, it sends first my liver into fits as that process happens and it tries to produce more acids and crap to meet the demand and then other things go out in sympathy right along with it because it just can't do it ...and thenn I get to the point where I just haave to get it out of my body as fast the godammingjesus as I can!!..

Anyway so when I load grains or do too much sugar, and because fat allso slows down complex carb digestion- high fAt intake aswell when more than a small amount of complex carb pressent in my gut, it can't break down and just sits there festering into a high trigleride overload and that's how my liver goes mental trying to make stuff to break it down .. when it can't do it and think it needs to , it takes like an elipeptic fit and spasms and swells and pulls and so on and thaat's when it could scar and give me cancer or just shit itself altogether and refuse to work at all ever again if that's what I'm asking it to do when we both knOw godamming well that it can't .. meaning I'd die .. iff I didn't get it out of my body before the liver decided what it was going to do ..whether rip or stop and godknows whatever else.. it's like I have x amount of time to have food sit there and be able to produce digestive juices.. and if it's not soluble enough or in a small enough quantity to have that happen by the time it runs dry then I gOtta flush immEdiately or .. get sick and die or whthaveyou.. It just can't sit in my stomache because my liver'll keep trying to produce stuff it only has limited capacity to do ..until it just breaks....


I can do small amounts per serve though and I can do unlimited fruit and veg and starches and more grains if it's wholemeal or pre-processed white rice .. or sushi sometimes if I've been really good for a while beforehand.. It's no drama though , it just means I need more big simple carb hits and have to eat more often.. aand do shit loads of protein in lieu and assist itt to break down because it's the sugar and protein combo that maxes insulin exploitation anyway.. and I 've got to eat something .. win win when you get used to it though just quietly.. I'm trying to put on weight to make a comp level atm and I've been doing tapioca for my extra carb which with fish and chicken and meat and jellys from those things, along with whatever else I'm doing light gluco fluid wise does me somewhat for creatine boosting aswell ( shrug).. so far so good but godknows.. this putting on weight thing is kinda new for me I guess.... 52 kgs for a lightweight doesn't sound to far fetched to start off in light weight division ( if I don't get on roll  pretty quickly and go up another one.. as I imagine i miight if I really looked at it and wanted it )though so see I'll see what I can come up with.



Anyway, enough rant. Thanks for your links.. it's been fun..

Blooming tianshi lotus.

p.s. with your low -carb eating are you sure youu get enough protein and other  nutrients and calories???.. Do you have a particular calory intake range you aim for each day ?? Just curious how you cover it is all.


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## Nigeepoo (May 25, 2007)

Blooming Lotus said:


> I don't have a fatty liver. I have thee single worst strain of hep c and I have had since I was about 17 and caught it from some hot lesbian I was.. doesn't matter @)....


Ouch! Bad luck. Have you tried eating lots of Virgin Coconut Oil? The Lauric Acid in that is supposed to interfere with lipid-enveloped viruses like hepatitis.





Blooming Lotus said:


> Anyway so when I load grains or do too much sugar, and because fat also slows down complex carb digestion- high fat intake as well when more than a small amount of complex carb present in my gut, it can't break down and just sits there festering into a high triglyceride overload and that's how my liver goes mental trying to make stuff to break it down


How are you with protein + fat + fibrous carb meals i.e. meat & leafy veggies?





Blooming Lotus said:


> I can do small amounts per serve though and I can do unlimited fruit and veg and starches and more grains if it's wholemeal or pre-processed white rice .. or sushi sometimes if I've been really good for a while beforehand.. It's no drama though , it just means I need more big simple carb hits and have to eat more often..


Little & often sounds like a good idea.





Blooming Lotus said:


> this putting on weight thing is kinda new for me I guess.... 52 kgs for a lightweight doesn't sound to far fetched to start off in light weight division ( if I don't get on roll  pretty quickly and go up another one.. as I imagine i might if I really looked at it and wanted it )though so see I'll see what I can come up with.


I never have any trouble putting on weight...I love my food!





Blooming Lotus said:


> Anyway, enough rant. Thanks for your links.. it's been fun..
> Blooming tianshi lotus.
> p.s. with your low -carb eating are you sure you get enough protein and other  nutrients and calories???.. Do you have a particular calorie intake range you aim for each day ?? Just curious how you cover it is all.


I don't count calories or grams so I don't know my calorie intake or macro split. At a rough guess, I'd say I was eating ~2,500kcals/day with a rough P/C/F split of 25%/25%/50%. If I have too much fun and put on weight, I cut down a bit to get back to where I was (100kg). As for nutrients, I work on the assumption that modern veg & fruit is grown on depleted soils so I take a variety of Vitamin, Mineral, EFA & miscellaneous (Co-Q10, Green Tea, Red Wine, Garlic) supps. Cheers, Nige.


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## Blooming Lotus (May 25, 2007)

no. I haven't really gone in for big coconut oil anything.. and some polynesian small asian heritage use of coconuts is nOt something I haven't been exposed to, but instead I go more for lipid flushing herbs and so on.

If I mix fat and protein, I normally fare a little better, but generally speaking, unless I reeally need to or use that as my refeed, I don't usually do that neither and tend instead to go for protein shakes milk egg whites and combos of fruit and veg and reeally small complex servings. I just find it's more efficieint nutritionally and more bioavailable and easier to digest and eliminate.

yah.. I tend to agree that alot of food doesn't have anywhere near as much nutrient coverage as is should or used to and I also believew that's because of soil quality these days, so I recommend multi -vit supplementation myself.

It sounds like you're pretty happy and comfortable with what you're doing dietarily atm so I guess my advice is uneccessary.

Thanks for sharing your information anyway.

Blooming tianshi Lotus.


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