# Big Back Training!



## gopro (Sep 25, 2003)

I posted this answer on another board and thought some people here might find it helpful...


Let me answer like this:

The back, IMO, is the most complex muscle group in the body, the most challenging to get fully developed, and the most amazing to look at when bodyfat is low! There are alot of muscles to think about when approaching back training...the lats, the teres, the rhomboids, the posterior delts, the upper and mid traps, the erectors, and yes the muscles that lie deeper in the back (not visible to us).

More than with ANY other muscle group, the back carries with it the need for mant different exercises, angles, and grips to achieve true "completeness." Some people are wide, some are thick, and some have pretty good detail, but few have it all!

The way I approach back training is to try and get to every portion of my back in each workout and do so without overtraining or spending 3 hours in the gym. This means NOT trying to do every exercise in existence at every back workout, but getting in different ones each time.

This is what I like to do each week, and this is what has literally transformed my back over the last few years from a weakness to a strong point.

3 basic angle of pull:

-one vertical pulling movement (pullups, pulldowns)
-one horizontal pulling movement (seated row, hammer row, machine row)
-one bent over movement (bent row, dumbell row, T-bar row)

1 "upper lat" isolator:

-either stiff arms or pullovers (machine or dumbell)

1 upper trap/1 mid trap movement:

-upper: barbell shrug, dumbell shrug, machine shrug
-middle: upright row (bar, cable, dumbell)

1 lower back movement:

-hyperextensions, rack deads, good mornings (I'm partial to deads)

3 types of grips for my pulling exercises:

-one exercise with close or v-handle
-one wide and overhand
-one medium and underhand

(I will change which exercise/pulling angle gets which grip each time I train)

To carify, a typical day of back will look like this:

-machine pullover...2 x 12-15
-WG overhand pulldown...2 x 10-12
-CG seated row...2 x 8-10
-underhand grip bent row...2 x 6-8
-rack deads...2 x 4-6
-superset: dumbell shrug/barbell upright row...2 x 8-10 each

*Rear delts, which are needed for a complete back are done on delt day for part of the year and back day for part of the year.

I hope this helps someone. It made all the difference for me when I put this together a few years ago, and my many clients as well


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## gr81 (Sep 25, 2003)

nice post GP, I totally agree with what you say about how to approach back training, good lookin out


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## derekisdman (Sep 25, 2003)

I love the back and the way it looks under low bf too...I can't wait untill I build an awesome back and lose the bf to show it.  Only thing I don't like is that it's hard to evaluate in the mirror!


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## Saturday Fever (Oct 12, 2004)

bump.

While I don't agree with parts, I agree with the entirety. For someone looking for a back routine, this is a good read.


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## rockcrest (Oct 12, 2004)

does this apply to the p/rr/s workout?


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## gopro (Oct 13, 2004)

rockcrest said:
			
		

> does this apply to the p/rr/s workout?




This can absolutely be applied to P/RR/S.


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## M.J.H. (Oct 13, 2004)

> -machine pullover...2 x 12-15
> -WG overhand pulldown...2 x 10-12
> -CG seated row...2 x 8-10
> -underhand grip bent row...2 x 6-8
> ...


That just seems like a lot to do in one workout, IMO. Am I crazy? Five exercises and then a superset would knock me on my a*s. Lately I have been doing 4-5 sets of about 3 exercises for back. Would it be more effective to be doing 2-3 sets of 5 exercises? Since we have accomplished that variety is key.


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## Duncans Donuts (Oct 13, 2004)

I do about 3 back exercises total :|


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## sabre81 (Oct 13, 2004)

I have been doing a similar routine for back, minus the pullovers, for a while.  I think it works great. 

good post btw


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## pmech (Oct 13, 2004)

I dont think it is alot, I could be wrong but I put between 14-16 sets into my back depending on if it is rep DL day or not. Granted I am not huge and learning the fundamentals, but I have found this worked for me back in the day quite well and has helped me get back in the swing of lifting again.


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## M.J.H. (Oct 13, 2004)

Hmm, this does bring up an interesting topic. The idea of training with just a few basic exercises vs. a variety of different exercises in each workout.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 13, 2004)

I like both worlds.  Variety, coupled with few exercises.


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## gopro (Oct 14, 2004)

MonStar said:
			
		

> That just seems like a lot to do in one workout, IMO. Am I crazy? Five exercises and then a superset would knock me on my a*s. Lately I have been doing 4-5 sets of about 3 exercises for back. Would it be more effective to be doing 2-3 sets of 5 exercises? Since we have accomplished that variety is key.



The workout above is a total of 14 sets, which is including traps as well. Take out the traps and you have 10 total work sets. If you are doing 3 exercises at 4-5 sets each, you are at 12-15 total sets, surpassing the routine I posted.

Another note...it is integral in back training, more than with any other bodypart, to use a wide variety of exercises, angles, and grips for total and complete development of all of the muscles. Now, if you are simply interested in a "big back," than just do some pullups and rows...but, if you really want to bring out all the finer points of the back, you need to be more specialized in your approach.


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## M.J.H. (Oct 14, 2004)

Thanks gopro, today in the gym I am doing arms instead of doing 4-5 sets of 2 exercises for my biceps and triceps I am going to try and do 2 worksets of 3-4 exercises for my biceps and triceps. I'll let you know how it works, thanks bud.


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## gopro (Oct 14, 2004)

MonStar said:
			
		

> Thanks gopro, today in the gym I am doing arms instead of doing 4-5 sets of 2 exercises for my biceps and triceps I am going to try and do 2 worksets of 3-4 exercises for my biceps and triceps. I'll let you know how it works, thanks bud.



I hope it works well for you. Let me know.


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## ALIENEGYPT (Oct 14, 2004)

Hey GP-

Nice post man!...Still tweaking my back day...Will incorporate this info for sure!

Andrew


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## Saturday Fever (Oct 14, 2004)

Adopting a scheme like this is good for any style of training. You could easily implement this as part of your accessory work on a DE Sq/DL day using a Westside routine, for example. You could put this into a Push/Pull/Legs split, whatever.


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## gopro (Oct 14, 2004)

Saturday Fever said:
			
		

> Adopting a scheme like this is good for any style of training. You could easily implement this as part of your accessory work on a DE Sq/DL day using a Westside routine, for example. You could put this into a Push/Pull/Legs split, whatever.



Very true


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## pmech (Oct 14, 2004)

OMG, the world has ended. SF and gopro in agreement...... repent now....


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## chris mason (Oct 14, 2004)

Here is what I do which directly works some portion of my back:

weighted curl-grip chins
deadlifts
hang cleans

I don't do them on the same day in most cases.  I have a pretty decent back.  

To me, detail is a function of the muscles being developed enough to see and then bodyfat.  In other words, the only way a particular exercise brings out detail is if that exercise causes development sufficient to be viewed when fat may have previously blurred said muscle.  Beyond that it is purely a function of how much fat is covering the musculature.

This is not a slam on GoPro but I do not agree with his assertation that so many different movements need to be practiced to enjoy a fully developed back.


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## Duncans Donuts (Oct 14, 2004)

^
That is exactly my back program as well.  Except I'm doing hang cleans for football, not because I want to for back routine.


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## gopro (Oct 14, 2004)

chris mason said:
			
		

> Here is what I do which directly works some portion of my back:
> 
> weighted curl-grip chins
> deadlifts
> ...



I respect your knowledge and opinion, but you yourself are NOT a "bodybuilder" and do not work with bodybuilders on a regular basis. The type of training it takes to bring out the very detailed backs on competitive bodybuilders is far different from "having a pretty decent back." I have witnessed the "severe" changes in the looks of the backs of those I've worked with after bringing alot of variety into their programs.

I am not slamming you either, but after doing what I do for the past 14 years I have learned quite a bit about this subject.


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## DOMS (Oct 14, 2004)

Thanks for the great post gopro!


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## M.J.H. (Oct 14, 2004)

I don't know if you read my journal or not GP, but my arm workout today was GREAT. Did 4 exercises each for biceps and triceps and 2 worksets per exercise. Really blasted my arms harder than ever---I was very pleased. Tomorrow I am going to do legs with 2 worksets or maybe 3 per exercise, and do 4-5 exercises total.  




			
				chris mason said:
			
		

> I have a pretty decent back.


 

You have incredible lats, Chris. Haha, a pretty decent back? Don't make me post your lat spread pictures again. They'll scare everybody in this thread away.


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## rockcrest (Oct 14, 2004)

gopro said:
			
		

> This can absolutely be applied to P/RR/S.



is this the p, the rr, or the s workout?  it seems to be a combo of the three.  it looks good and i want to mix it into the p/rr/s scheme, but what week would you suggest is best>?  

thankz


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## gopro (Oct 15, 2004)

rockcrest said:
			
		

> is this the p, the rr, or the s workout?  it seems to be a combo of the three.  it looks good and i want to mix it into the p/rr/s scheme, but what week would you suggest is best>?
> 
> thankz



The above workout is really in the rep range category, but it wasn't posted with the intention of fitting it into P/RR/S. I believe that for general training purposes that using a variety of rep ranges is the best way to go.


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## gopro (Oct 15, 2004)

MonStar said:
			
		

> I don't know if you read my journal or not GP, but my arm workout today was GREAT. Did 4 exercises each for biceps and triceps and 2 worksets per exercise. Really blasted my arms harder than ever---I was very pleased. Tomorrow I am going to do legs with 2 worksets or maybe 3 per exercise, and do 4-5 exercises total.



I didn't see it, but I'm glad it worked well for you. Keep me posted on how it goes for other bodyparts


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## gopro (Oct 15, 2004)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the great post gopro!



My pleasure


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## BulkMeUp (Oct 15, 2004)

gopro, would you suggest this routine for someone like me who is not really a newbie, but not exactly at an intermediate level. Or would you suggest it mainly to those who are on an advanceed level?


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## gopro (Oct 15, 2004)

BulkMeUp said:
			
		

> gopro, would you suggest this routine for someone like me who is not really a newbie, but not exactly at an intermediate level. Or would you suggest it mainly to those who are on an advanceed level?



I would recommend it for you as well, yes.


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## rockcrest (Oct 15, 2004)

gopro said:
			
		

> The above workout is really in the rep range category, but it wasn't posted with the intention of fitting it into P/RR/S. I believe that for general training purposes that using a variety of rep ranges is the best way to go.




good look


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## chris mason (Oct 15, 2004)

gopro said:
			
		

> I respect your knowledge and opinion, but you yourself are NOT a "bodybuilder" and do not work with bodybuilders on a regular basis. The type of training it takes to bring out the very detailed backs on competitive bodybuilders is far different from "having a pretty decent back." I have witnessed the "severe" changes in the looks of the backs of those I've worked with after bringing alot of variety into their programs.
> 
> I am not slamming you either, but after doing what I do for the past 14 years I have learned quite a bit about this subject.


 
I will respond to this charge by telling everyone a bit about myself.  

The very first gym I trained at, Hoppe's, in Phoenix was a hole-in-the-wall gym which was owned by a former Mr. World and Mr. America.  Mike Ashley trained there as well as a less known fellow by the name of Darren Lanaghan (sp?).  Darren was the model for the first _Power Factor_ training book and has appeared in several magazines.  

Lance Dreher, a former Mr. Universe, prepared my first contest diet.  The second gym I trained at was owned by a national level light heavyweight (placed one spot behind Flex Wheeler at the North American Championships).  

I lived in Phoenix for 18 years and had the chance to meet, watch train, and even train with several top level (to include professional) bodybuilders at the various gyms I frequented.  I have also had the opportunity to converse with them on various topics related to bodybuilding.

In my 17+ years in the iron game I have also studied bodybuilding as much or more than 95% of the folks out there.  This is not a boast, just fact.  

So, for you to dismiss my opinion because I am not a current competitive bodybuilder is unwarranted in my opinion.  

Now, here is a link to a video of which displays my back and the results I have obtained:

http://www.wannabebig.com/vids/Chris%20-%20Chins%20-%2090x3.mov

Can you post such a video for comparison GoPro?  Your vastly superior knowledge of bodybuilding must have netted you superior results?


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## gopro (Oct 15, 2004)

chris mason said:
			
		

> I will respond to this charge by telling everyone a bit about myself.
> 
> The very first gym I trained at, Hoppe's, in Phoenix was a hole-in-the-wall gym which was owned by a former Mr. World and Mr. America.  Mike Ashley trained there as well as a less known fellow by the name of Darren Lanaghan (sp?).  Darren was the model for the first _Power Factor_ training book and has appeared in several magazines.
> 
> ...



Well, I guarentee that if you trained with top pros, as have I, then you were doing a very wide variety of movements. Pros tend to do 4,5,6 or more movements per workout. And while you have studied and conversed with many bodybuilders...and if you have you will certainly see how varied their back routines tend to be...I doubt that you have TRAINED dozens upon dozens of bodybuilders for shows where bringing out every section of the back is essential. Yes, diet is what is needed to lower the bodyfat % so the muscles have the opportunity to show...but if the development is not there, which is what I specialize in, then there will still be little detail.

And as far as your video...I have seen it and I think you have a nice wide/pretty thick back. Are your results superior to mine? Sorry, no. Unfortunately, I don't bring a video camera to the gym with me. I only care what my back looks like, or any other muscle, when I step onstage.


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## gopro (Oct 15, 2004)

rockcrest said:
			
		

> good look


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## chris mason (Oct 15, 2004)

Well, I didn't expect any comparison.

Your assertation that all of the pros use a wide variety of back exercises is incorrect.  Some do and some don't.  

For example, Ronnie Coleman is considered to have one of the best backs of the current crop.  How many exercises PER SESSION does Ronnie use to specifically target his back?  

How about Dorian Yates?  He had one of the best backs ever.  How many exercises PER SESSION did Dorian employ?

I don't agree with you on this particular issue, there is nothing further to be read into the matter.


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## gopro (Oct 15, 2004)

chris mason said:
			
		

> Well, I didn't expect any comparison.
> 
> Your assertation that all of the pros use a wide variety of back exercises is incorrect.  Some do and some don't.
> 
> ...



-Well, you are someone I really have no need to compare myself too. I leave it at that.

-Ronnie uses more variety than you think. And I know Dorian used far more variety on his way up. But anyway, I will agree to disagree with you, as this is nothing new.


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## chris mason (Oct 15, 2004)

Hmmm, talking trash now.  I'll tell you what, post a current picture of your hugeness (or video) or you only look like a fool by your statements.  

Do I think I am something great, no.  In fact, I said I had an ok back.  I am, however, man enough to show the results of my training when called-out.  You, evidently, are not.


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## DOMS (Oct 15, 2004)

I may be a n00b and all, but isn't the back the most complex bodypart?  Both in terms of number of muscles and articulation?

It seems reasonable to me that a bodybuilder would have to hit the back from many directions in order to fully develop it.


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## Duncans Donuts (Oct 15, 2004)

It is a reasonable assertion, but not a definite one.

I do no more than 3 exercises for a back.  I'm an athlete, though, not a bodybuilder - I still don't see how someone who can chin bodyweight plus a pair of plates, deadlift in the 600s, etc. could have a lack of development.

Mason's point was that you don't positively have to use a lot of exercises to have good/great back development.  He posted the video to make this point.


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## gopro (Oct 15, 2004)

chris mason said:
			
		

> Hmmm, talking trash now.  I'll tell you what, post a current picture of your hugeness (or video) or you only look like a fool by your statements.
> 
> Do I think I am something great, no.  In fact, I said I had an ok back.  I am, however, man enough to show the results of my training when called-out.  You, evidently, are not.



THAT was me trash talking? Please Chris, you are paranoid. You are not man enough to do anything when called out b/c you put out videos of yourself training all the time. That video was old, and apparently you have a NEED to show yourself. That NEED shows insecurity in my opinion. But I digress. I am not going to bring myself down to your level. You are a well built and strong guy that knows alot about training. You are not a competitive bodybuilder and will never be stepping onstage again to compete, so you and your development are meaningless to me. If I put up a pic or video and blew you away, what would that do for me?

Please, just leave it alone and continue to quietly post. You often give good advice so stick with that.


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## gopro (Oct 15, 2004)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> It is a reasonable assertion, but not a definite one.
> 
> I do no more than 3 exercises for a back.  I'm an athlete, though, not a bodybuilder - I still don't see how someone who can chin bodyweight plus a pair of plates, deadlift in the 600s, etc. could have a lack of development.
> 
> Mason's point was that you don't positively have to use a lot of exercises to have good/great back development.  He posted the video to make this point.



I never said that he lacked back development. Chris has a wide and thick back! And no, you don't have to use an incredibly wide variety of movements to have a good back, but I am interested in OPTIMIZING back development, not simply being good. For this, a variety is needed, especially with back.


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## Duncans Donuts (Oct 15, 2004)

> How about Dorian Yates? He had one of the best backs ever. How many exercises PER SESSION did Dorian employ?



For the record, Dorian Yates did agree with the assertion that 1 or 2 exercises wasn't enough for the back as Mike Mentzer suggested to him.  He felt that it was too complicated to hit with deadlifts and whatever else was done (bent rows?)  I'm not sure how much he did, though.



> Yates:  Here, again, we're deviating from what Arthur Jones was recommending, and to a lesser degree Mike Mentzer, doing the whole body or half the body in one workout. Even though I wasn't doing a tremendous volume, it was still too much to be doing several muscle groups at once. I do believe that you require a certain amount of volume, in terms of different exercises. I don't think you can go in the gym and train your chest or back adequately using only one exercise.


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## gopro (Oct 15, 2004)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> For the record, Dorian Yates did agree with the assertion that 1 or 2 exercises wasn't enough for the back as Mike Mentzer suggested to him.  He felt that it was too complicated to hit with deadlifts and whatever else was done (bent rows?)  I'm not sure how much he did, though.



You are correct.


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## chris mason (Oct 15, 2004)

Blow me away???  Lol, your typing is cashing a check bigger than your body can backup.  Pleeeeaaaasseeee post a picture and blow me away.

Please.


Now, to show humility on my part.  I have an excerpt from Dorian's book _Blood and Guts_ where he has pictures of his actual training log.  From what I can ascertain, on June 23rd, 1992 he performed the following workout for his back:

pullover
reverse grip row
bench-row
dumbbell row
shrugs
hyperextension

So, he hit the traps with rows and shrugs.  He hit his lats with rows and pullovers, and he hit his lower back with hyperextensions. 

He looked to do 1 set of each exercise other than the pullovers where he did a couple of warmups (assuming I am reading it correctly).


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## QuestionGuy (Oct 15, 2004)

this is honestly no showoff but i RARELY train my back, I lopve my back its big, muscely and when i flex it with my arms extended... it looks awesome , all kinds of mountians, i love it its proboby my most advanced area, the thing is i never give it attention maybe 1 a month i just hate training it because its boring to me, i love my back i dont know how that could be, maybe im training it partially when i do chest, i dont know but what i do know is that my dad has and even srtonger back and he stopped working out 20 years ago, i think its my genetics, i respond grate in some areas but sometimes not like i want it, like for example i have big biceps (18", i beleieve) but still they dont look like i want them to, they look simple and flat, hmm i guess everyone has some good and bad parts..


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## Duncans Donuts (Oct 15, 2004)

I've heard this same argument before...

"I don't need to train my legs, they're already strong."


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## Tank316 (Oct 15, 2004)

chris mason said:
			
		

> Blow me away???  Lol, your typing is cashing a check bigger than your body can backup.  Pleeeeaaaasseeee post a picture and blow me away.
> 
> Please.
> 
> ...





> Blow me away??? Lol, your typing is cashing a check bigger than your body can backup. Pleeeeaaaasseeee post a picture and blow me away.


Chris, with all do respect, STFU!!!!!
 i watched your video of cheating up 225 straight bar curl, big whoop dee frickin do. thats a great way of showing the younger lifters NOTHING...    btw, shave your back hair man, its disgusting!!!!!!!!!


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## chris mason (Oct 15, 2004)

Oh, and one more point of clarification.  The video I posted is about 2 weeks old. 

Whoops, and one more final point, I am not saying that many professionals do not follow a routine with several exercises, they do.  What I am saying is that they do not ALL train in that fashion and some of the best backs ever were developed without worrying about angles of pull and grips etc.  

If GoPro wishes to train himself and anyone else in that fashion I am sure they will develop nice backs, but his assertation that his method is necessary for optimization of the back (his word) is inaccurate in my opinion.  

So, I never said his method doesn't work, I said that it is not necessary to develop a great back.


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## chris mason (Oct 15, 2004)

Tank316 said:
			
		

> Chris, with all do respect, STFU!!!!!
> i watched your video of cheating up 225 straight bar curl, big whoop dee frickin do. thats a great way of showing the younger lifters NOTHING...    btw, shave your back hair man, its disgusting!!!!!!!!!


Did you also watch my video of me propping my back up against a wall and curling 175 lbs? I gave an appropriate hand gesture for folks just like you at the end... 

I am sorry my chest hair offends you. I promise if I were to ever compete again in a bodybuilding contest I will shave it. For now, I prefer not to because I end up getting broken out and rashes unless I keep the darn thing shaven practically every day.

****edit:  Whoops, you don't like my back hair.  Man, it isn't that bad, is it?  Well, same story.


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## Tank316 (Oct 15, 2004)

chris mason said:
			
		

> Did you also watch my video of me propping my back up against a wall and curling 175 lbs? I gave an appropriate hand gesture for folks just like you at the end...
> 
> I am sorry my chest hair offends you. I promise if I were to ever compete again in a bodybuilding contest I will shave it. For now, I prefer not to because I end up getting broken out and rashes unless I keep the darn thing shaven practically every day.
> 
> ****edit:  Whoops, you don't like my back hair.  Man, it isn't that bad, is it?  Well, same story.


i dare you to try a bb'ing show, go compete with the likes of GoPro, then we will see who has the last say!!! or laugh!  
 i remember when you posted things here a couple of yrs ago, i would think through time that you wouldve grown up. Well same story!!!!


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## gopro (Oct 15, 2004)

Tank316 said:
			
		

> i dare you to try a bb'ing show, go compete with the likes of GoPro, then we will see who has the last say!!! or laugh!
> i remember when you posted things here a couple of yrs ago, i would think through time that you wouldve grown up. Well same story!!!!



Well, Tank pretty much said it all for me right here. I will not waste my time with you Chris. You are meaningless to me, can't you understand. I don't need to prove anything to you. If you would really like to make a comparison, lets pick out a show and compete against eachother.

Anyway, like I said earlier...you have plenty of good advice to give out, as long as you remember that you do not know everything...sometimes, no, usually, you come off like you think you do. So, be humble and stick to putting out your little videos and giving people solid training advice. I am sure your videos are inspiring to some, which is good, and I know that your advice helps many, which is better. So be a man now and just move on.


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## CowPimp (Oct 15, 2004)

Potentially useful debates that result as a difference of opinion always turns into a pissing contest and/or name calling.  I don't understand it...


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## DOMS (Oct 15, 2004)

"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards


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## Tank316 (Oct 16, 2004)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> Potentially useful debates that result as a difference of opinion always turns into a pissing contest and/or name calling.  I don't understand it...


if your referring to me, i'm sorry! But when mr mason referred having Gp train people the way he wants pissed me OFF.
my results along with what 24-30 people who train with P/RR/Sh have had awesome results, i felt it was a slam in something i believe in  , not a slam against my friend, wide lats are great, but if you plan on competing in a bb'ing show, you need full development!
Slamming chris on his 225 cheat curl, well i wont say i'm sorry for that, WHY?,because it teaches the younger lifters nothing.....there have been many younger lifers on this board who have ask GP many ?'s on lifting,always telling them ''train smart"
Eric wasnt ''trash talking'' either, he simply stated, ''i have nothing to compare it too''.
i too will admit, chris you have a wide back, but you are lacking in full back 
development! its an observation from a bodybuilder's standpoint.
One more thing, being 41 yrs old on the P/RR/Sh ver. I and II i was making outstanding gains, no ph's/ps's. for some who know me, i went through rotator cuff surgery in August[work related], the program works.
so all in all , it was a useful debate, continue...........................


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## SportinStyle (Oct 16, 2004)

Just a quick question... Should you work with high reps (lower weight) for back to get a big back that sticks out or should I just stick to low reps (high weight)? 

I have found that for muscles like calves, doing high reps provides more growth. Is this the same way?


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## Arnold (Oct 16, 2004)

SportinStyle said:
			
		

> Just a quick question... Should you work with high reps (lower weight) for back to get a big back that sticks out or should I just stick to low reps (high weight)?



all of the above, from a bodybuilding stand point a multitude of rep ranges varying from 4-12 reps is ideal.


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## chris mason (Oct 16, 2004)

GoPro, your comment about competing is b.s. and you know it.  I will comment no further unless pushed.

As to the slandering anonymously, I ALWAYS use my REAL name.

With respect to this thread, my back is as complete as I feel it needs to be (minus greater definitition if I were to compete in bodybuilding, obviously).  If GoPro can provide anything other than his opinion as to why his method will optimize the back I would be glad to read it.  I want to hear exactly why all of the muscles of the back will not be worked appropriately without mixing grips, using 3 angles of pull, and using so many different exercises.


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## DeadBolt (Oct 16, 2004)

Theres a saying: Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics...no matter who winds or loses your still retarded!

Now I'm not siding with anyone here, chris you have a nice back I'll give ya that.  I have also been following gopro's advice since day one and have 0 problems with doing so.  I have had phenominal results!  

As for this bickering, just drop it.  If you guys really want to prove who's knowledge is greater put it to the test and do a comp.  Shit I'll fly clear around the world to see it if it makes you happy but arguing here is useless!

I believe in good form, good food, and fire!  Why you ask?  Because I have experience all three of them and love em all.  Arguing here brings many good points out but unless a person experiences for THEMSELVES then they cannot comment on which way is better or not so stop trying to convince one another.  Lead by example not by words!


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## Duncans Donuts (Oct 16, 2004)

I don't think he lacks overall back development, just definition.

Anyone worth a quarter will tell you that definition is a function of lower bodyfat..


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## P-funk (Oct 16, 2004)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> I don't think he lacks overall back development, just definition.




and defenition comes with diet not training.


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## chris mason (Oct 16, 2004)

This drives me a bit bonkers!  Read the following very carefully:

*I never said GoPro's training method would not result in a nice back.  I only said the number and variety of exercises he is recommending is not necessary to "optimize" one's back.  *

That's it, there is nothing more to it.  GoPro was the one who decided to try to belittle me by intimating I am not a bodybuilder and therefore must not know as much as him about bodybuilding.  He was wrong in that assertation.

I would be more than happy to rationally argue my perspective if he could refrain from personal insults.  When I asked him to post a comparison of his back vs. mine I think it was within the realm of reasonable requests.  I think we have similar heredity for building size and strength, therefore if his methods were as good as he espouses they should have resulted in a much better back than mine.  In the end, he refuses to post a picture ostensibly because I am "not worth the trouble".  Personally, I think it is because he knows the truth, my back is as good or better than his.


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## bulletproof1 (Oct 16, 2004)

where are your pics? your gallery is empty.


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## chris mason (Oct 16, 2004)

I don't have a gallery here.  I posted a video and you can look in Monstar's journal to see some more pictures of me if you like.

Here is a relaxed back shot (no pump, not tensed at all):

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13127


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## bulletproof1 (Oct 16, 2004)

whats the link to the video in his journal?


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## Tank316 (Oct 16, 2004)

chris mason said:
			
		

> This drives me a bit bonkers!  Read the following very carefully:
> 
> *I never said GoPro's training method would not result in a nice back.  I only said the number and variety of exercises he is recommending is not necessary to "optimize" one's back.  *
> 
> ...


ok!


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## chris mason (Oct 16, 2004)

The link to the video is in this thread:

http://www.wannabebig.com/vids/Chri...%20-%2090x3.mov


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## Arnold (Oct 16, 2004)

that is a link to your video, not a thread.


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## chris mason (Oct 16, 2004)

Robert DiMaggio said:
			
		

> that is a link to your video, not a thread.


I know, I thought he wanted to see the video.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 16, 2004)

bulletproof1 said:
			
		

> where are your pics? your gallery is empty.



I think he wants to see more pics.


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## chris mason (Oct 16, 2004)

One more point of clarification.  I think my back development from a pure muscle perspective is as good or better than his, he may be leaner than me.  I have no idea about bodyfat unless he posts a picture or video.


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## chris mason (Oct 16, 2004)

bulletproof1 said:
			
		

> whats the link to the video in his journal?


This is the quote I was referring to.


----------



## chris mason (Oct 16, 2004)

I have some older pics from when I was heavier.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 16, 2004)

I dont think GoPro insulted Chris in any way and I dont feel Chris insulted GoPro either. Just a regular debate on Ironmagazine about back develpment, nothing new.

I have to agree with Duncan/P-Funk on this one. I do not personally believe you need a huge variety of back work to get a fully developed back. While you may need more variety than say, chest or triceps, the back is just like any other group of muscles. Heavy weight, proper rest and proper DIET. DIET IS KEY. 

I do agree with the assertion that the back is the most complex of muscle groups, but I dont see why the basics, combined with proper diet would do anything different for your back's appearance.

This of course isnt saying GoPro isnt getting great results with his P/RR/S workout program, but even that program would go nowhere with improper diet.


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 16, 2004)

And honestly, who gives a fuq if the guy has back hair. To give someone hell about that is just petty and stupid.   Heck, I wish I didnt have back hair.


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## M.J.H. (Oct 16, 2004)

I am not getting in the middle of this debate at all. But I do just want to say one thing, to gopro---I think that all Chris is saying in terms of posting pictures of your back, or training videos, etc.; is that it does wonders in terms of your credibility. I mean a lot of guys can talk big on a message board (not saying you do, or anything of the nature) but I think that having pictures, training videos, and things of the like can just prove that you are as credible as you claim to me.


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## Tank316 (Oct 16, 2004)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> I dont think GoPro insulted Chris in any way and I dont feel Chris insulted GoPro either. Just a regular debate on Ironmagazine about back develpment, nothing new.
> 
> I have to agree with Duncan/P-Funk on this one. I do not personally believe you need a huge variety of back work to get a fully developed back. While you may need more variety than say, chest or triceps, the back is just like any other group of muscles. Heavy weight, proper rest and proper DIET. DIET IS KEY.
> 
> ...


alright two posts that are pointed in my direction,thats cool!!!


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## DOMS (Oct 16, 2004)

"As to the slandering anonymously, I ALWAYS use my REAL name." - chris mason

That was a joke.  You know, they have pills that can help you with that.


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## Tank316 (Oct 16, 2004)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> And honestly, who gives a fuq if the guy has back hair. To give someone hell about that is just petty and stupid.   Heck, I wish I didnt have back hair.


cam, we have never exchanged words, please dont start!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    it was a put down out of fustration, it was unlike me to do so! and again, read my other post!


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## chris mason (Oct 16, 2004)

cfs3 said:
			
		

> "As to the slandering anonymously, I ALWAYS use my REAL name." - chris mason
> 
> That was a joke. You know, they have pills that can help you with that.


I understand, but as a very wise individual once said, there is some truth in every "joke".

Anyway, I wasn't insulted by it and was not sure it was directed at me.  I merely saw it as a chance to point out that I have never used anything but my real name on the net.  It bugs me when people talk a lot of shit on the net and hide behind false names.


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## Tank316 (Oct 16, 2004)

> I understand, but as a very wise individual once said, there is some truth in every "joke".


Thank you, the back hair comment was a joke!!!!!
i also watched your r-g 90 lb added wt chin up, that chris was impressive,it showed good form.  straight up !!!!!


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## camarosuper6 (Oct 16, 2004)

I know weve never exchanged words, but hell man, if I see something I dont agree with I speak on it, and I'm sure you'd do the same.

I wasn't trying to get into any kinda beef with you man, just tellin how I see it.


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## Tank316 (Oct 16, 2004)

camarosuper6 said:
			
		

> I know weve never exchanged words, but hell man, if I see something I dont agree with I speak on it, and I'm sure you'd do the same.
> 
> I wasn't trying to get into any kinda beef with you man, just tellin how I see it.


i respect that, same here, i was just doing the same!!!!


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## CowPimp (Oct 16, 2004)

I think the whole comparison of one person's back to another is moot.  There are far too many variables involved besides just training to say if one training method is better than another.  

Have your diets been down pat for the entire duration of your training careers?  How different are your genetics in terms of the potential for muscle size?  How many different training protocols have you tried?  How many different back routines have you done?  The list goes on.  

If Eric has a larger back than Chris, does it mean that he is right?  Conversely, if Chris has a larger back than Eric, does it mean that he is right?  I think the answer to both of these questions is no.  Again, it all comes down to a pissing contest.

I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle.  Some people might need a highly varied routine like the one that Gopro laid out to see good back development.  Some people might simply need rows, chins, and deads to reach the same potential.  The point is that Gopro has created a routine that is worth trying.  If you don't like it, or it doesn't give you better results, then don't continue to use it.  Take it for what it's worth people.


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## gopro (Oct 16, 2004)

chris mason said:
			
		

> This drives me a bit bonkers!  Read the following very carefully:
> 
> *I never said GoPro's training method would not result in a nice back.  I only said the number and variety of exercises he is recommending is not necessary to "optimize" one's back.  *
> 
> ...



-First, in regards to another one of your posts...You think I was kidding about a competition? Nope, I wasn't. You want to pick a show and enter the same class...that would be awesome.

-Second...you are not a bodybuilder, as in competition bodybuilder. From everything I have seen you post about on WBB and here, I feel your expertise lies more in building strength and building a good base of size, but as far as competition bodybuilding...I don't think that is your expertise. I have trained for 15 competitions, and have trained others for another 50-60 shows, and know EXACTLY what it takes to polish the physique...and its not all diet.

-Third...I would bet my left nut that if YOU decided to enter a bodybuilding competition you would change your training program. I guarentee you would add in movements that you currently do not perform. I guarentee that more variety would enter into your training equation.

-As far as having the same heredity for building size and strength...doubt it friend. I bet you have far better genetics than me for adding muscle and getting strong. How much did you weigh in highschool? I weighed 125 lbs at a height of 5'11", which is how tall I am now. At one point I got up to 273 lbs and although I certainly was not lean, I was not fat either. Additionally, when I started, my max bench press was about 80 lbs. I eventually hit a single at 495. My genes pretty much suck. I got where I did from my approach to training and plain hard work. And by the way...as you know, I have never used steroids, and you have (yes, I know it was long ago, but you did at one time).

-And yes Chris...I repeat...you are NOT worth the trouble. Do you know the last time I took a pic of my physique? Good, neither do I b/c I have no need for it. I don't need to take videos of myself either...and I certainly do not need to break out my camera for the likes of you.

So, where does this leave us? The same place as usual...please just go about your business and do your thing. I have said a dozen times that I think you know your shit and I also think you have a good physique and are a strong guy. You can believe that your methods are good, great, better, best...I don't care...now go chill out and enjoy your day


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## JerseyDevil (Oct 17, 2004)

gopro said:
			
		

> -First, in regards to another one of your posts...You think I was kidding about a competition? Nope, I wasn't. You want to pick a show and enter the same class...that would be awesome.


I think this says it all.  That would be the ultimate challenge, so put up or shut up Chris (and I mean that in a nice way). If everyone relied on pics and vids to show off their physique, there wouldn't be a need for bodybuilding contests... 

I really wish these debates wouldn't turn into pissing contests, but when you have differing opinions usually someone gets offended and feels the need to defend their position. Alas, that's human nature.


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## Duncans Donuts (Oct 17, 2004)

> I bet you have far better genetics than me for adding muscle and getting strong.



Wouldn't this be related to how long your muscle bellies are (how short your tendons are) and how well you can recover from the stress of exercise?  I know you said you were 125 pounds in high school, but that isn't really good for evaluating your genetic capacity, is it?  

I'm just wondering why you say you have poor genetics for muscle growth.  Not questioning it per se, just curious.


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## chris mason (Oct 17, 2004)

GoPro, with respect to a bodybuilding competition it isn't going to happen.  I have no plans to compete as a bodybuilder ever again (although I never say never).  I competed in my youth and when I discovered the degree of drug use it would take to be competitive at the national level in the NPC and to eventually become an IFBB professional I opted out.  How did I know the degree of use?  I had friends who were at that level.  You see, my personality is such that I do not wish to compete merely for the sake of competing.  I want to be sure I have a chance to win.  I also do not want to compete in some schmoe organization, I only want to compete with the best.  I am not saying that I like this facet of my personality, it just is what it is.  

When I was in college I seriously entertained the idea that I wanted to be an IFBB professional bodybuilder and felt that I had the heredity to do it (who knows if I was right or wrong) with drug use.  With extremely limited drug use I weighed 240-250 lbs at 5'11" tall.  

In any event, I made a decision at that age (not to even dabble in drugs) and have stuck to it.  

Now, you mention competition, you have been using the name GoPro for several years now.  I remember asking you about the name at least 2.5 years ago and you saying that you would be competing and turning pro very soon.  You were weighing a natural 250 lbs and were fairly lean.  What happened?  Why have you not turned pro in one of those natural organizations you presumably compete in?


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## gopro (Oct 17, 2004)

chris mason said:
			
		

> GoPro, with respect to a bodybuilding competition it isn't going to happen.  I have no plans to compete as a bodybuilder ever again (although I never say never).  I competed in my youth and when I discovered the degree of drug use it would take to be competitive at the national level in the NPC and to eventually become an IFBB professional I opted out.  How did I know the degree of use?  I had friends who were at that level.  You see, my personality is such that I do not wish to compete merely for the sake of competing.  I want to be sure I have a chance to win.  I also do not want to compete in some schmoe organization, I only want to compete with the best.  I am not saying that I like this facet of my personality, it just is what it is.
> 
> When I was in college I seriously entertained the idea that I wanted to be an IFBB professional bodybuilder and felt that I had the heredity to do it (who knows if I was right or wrong) with drug use.  With extremely limited drug use I weighed 240-250 lbs at 5'11" tall.
> 
> ...



Ok, so I guess we will not be meeting onstage...oh well...figured that. Anyway, in regard to your mention about my name gopro, and me turning pro. Here is one piece of info for you that you may find interesting...I earned my natural pro card in my early 20s in an organization called the ANPPC. I won it at a pro qualifier in Las Vegas, and it was truly awesome to do so. However, before I even had a chance to do my first pro show, they "closed shop." But what can you do. As far as my present pro efforts, it has not happened for one reason...I haven't competed again. Why? $ is the answer. I just opened a gym which I wanted to get established, started writing for magazines and websites, and then recently was headhunted to work for VPX and I sold my gym and moved. Now I am busier than ever. However, now that I am getting settled in I will target a show for 2005 and go for the pro card. And I will do it naturally even though at this point, the upper natural level shows are completely inundated with drugs........SAD.


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## gopro (Oct 17, 2004)

JerseyDevil said:
			
		

> I think this says it all.  That would be the ultimate challenge, so put up or shut up Chris (and I mean that in a nice way). If everyone relied on pics and vids to show off their physique, there wouldn't be a need for bodybuilding contests...
> 
> I really wish these debates wouldn't turn into pissing contests, but when you have differing opinions usually someone gets offended and feels the need to defend their position. Alas, that's human nature.



Would have been cool, huh?

And as far as Chris and I...this has always been the case.


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## chris mason (Oct 17, 2004)

GoPro, I am laughing a bit now. Why is it that when questioned about this VERY SAME topic on wbb you never mentioned being pro in any organization? Why did you say you would SOON be competing to turn pro and omit this new tidbit? 

Now, as to your challenge and Jersey Devil's comments as well as yours. If anyone reading this had a modicum of intelligence they will realize I posted the first challenge which YOU declined. My challenge was VERY simple, it merely required you post a recent picture or video of your back on this site. How hard can that be? Your "challenge" on the other hand would require months of dieting, travel for at least one of us, and would provide either one of us the opportunity to drug ourselves up in order to prove a point. A much more unrealistic proposition. So, who here is the real pussy, the guy who will not accept the first, very simple challenge, or the guy who retorts with something he knows is not going to happen in order that he might look cool to his supporters?

I will now bow out of this particular back and forth regardless of how hard it may be not to retort when you respond to this post. 

In the end I certainly don't think I have EVEN CLOSE to a great physique, but I DO think my physique is a nice example of what a natural (for 14+ years) trainee can do both in terms of size and strength (make that a natural trainee who is married with 3 kids and runs one medium sized business and is the co-owner of another smaller business).


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## chris mason (Oct 17, 2004)

gopro said:
			
		

> Ok, so I guess we will not be meeting onstage...oh well...figured that. Anyway, in regard to your mention about my name gopro, and me turning pro. Here is one piece of info for you that you may find interesting...I earned my natural pro card in my early 20s in an organization called the ANPPC. I won it at a pro qualifier in Las Vegas, and it was truly awesome to do so. However, before I even had a chance to do my first pro show, they "closed shop." But what can you do. As far as my present pro efforts, it has not happened for one reason...I haven't competed again. Why? $ is the answer. I just opened a gym which I wanted to get established, started writing for magazines and websites, and then recently was headhunted to work for VPX and I sold my gym and moved. Now I am busier than ever. However, now that I am getting settled in I will target a show for 2005 and go for the pro card. And I will do it naturally even though at this point, the upper natural level shows are completely inundated with drugs........SAD.


 
One more question, how old are you again GoPro?


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## JerseyDevil (Oct 17, 2004)

chris mason said:
			
		

> Now, as to your challenge and Jersey Devil's comments as well as yours. If anyone reading this had a modicum of intelligence they will realize I posted the first challenge which YOU declined.


So now your insulting my intelligence?  Sorry but I won't stoop to your level.  When you first arrived here Chris I thought you would be a good contributor.  It is rather obvious to me now however, that you thrive on confrontation. I hate that in a person.


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## Robboe (Oct 17, 2004)

I'll take a few pics in a few weeks and get some back shots and put them up.

Instead of making this a Chris vs Eric thing, why don't a few more do the same? Might actually be fun. And plus, i've wanted to see updated photos of Eric for fuckin' yonks with no joy so there's incentive in it for me also.


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## Rocco32 (Oct 17, 2004)

Alright, I have a pic of my back up. Now don't bombard me all at once everyone on how I was able to build such a massive back. Just one question at a time, LOL


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## gopro (Oct 17, 2004)

chris mason said:
			
		

> GoPro, I am laughing a bit now. Why is it that when questioned about this VERY SAME topic on wbb you never mentioned being pro in any organization? Why did you say you would SOON be competing to turn pro and omit this new tidbit?
> 
> Now, as to your challenge and Jersey Devil's comments as well as yours. If anyone reading this had a modicum of intelligence they will realize I posted the first challenge which YOU declined. My challenge was VERY simple, it merely required you post a recent picture or video of your back on this site. How hard can that be? Your "challenge" on the other hand would require months of dieting, travel for at least one of us, and would provide either one of us the opportunity to drug ourselves up in order to prove a point. A much more unrealistic proposition. So, who here is the real pussy, the guy who will not accept the first, very simple challenge, or the guy who retorts with something he knows is not going to happen in order that he might look cool to his supporters?
> 
> ...



Nice try Chris. Nice way to try and turn this around. Lets do the months of dieting...the travel (I'll come to you)...and as far as the drugs, well, out of the two of use, you are the only one that used them.

I keep trying to squash this but your big, huge, massive (obviously this is your biggest "bodypart") ego keeps causing you to strike back at me. This shows alot of insecurity on your part.

Now, the reason why I don't bother taking a picture of myself, when I NEVER do so, is because I won't get down to your pathetic level. And, like I said, you are not worth my time and effort. Now, if we got ready for a show, that is something I will be doing anyway, so you would be secondary to me. If you were a high level natural bodybuilder that I would soon be competing against I might for the fun of it, want to post up pics to make things more interesting. However, all you are is an egotistical loudmouth that does not ever want to be wrong, and is full of insecurities. You are a big guy and a strong guy and you know alot about training...and yes, a fine example of what can be accomplished naturally (save for some early steroid use). That is where it ends. 

As far as the "pro" thing...that is something I rarely bring up because it happened long ago and since the organization is now defunct, I can no longer consider myself a pro, although I DID in fact win my pro card. Whether you believe me or not is of little consequence to me.

Hopefully, this is where this will end and you can continue to post your pics and shoot your little videos and continue to share your knowledge with others.

And by the way, I'm going to be 36.


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## CowPimp (Oct 17, 2004)

I love how everyone avoids my comments because they realize how worthless, petty, and immature this whole argument is.  Oh well, continue your bickering.  I'm not even going to look in this thread anymore.  It's a dissapointment.


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## Arnold (Oct 17, 2004)

I think Eric and Chris just need to arm wrestle.


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## Du (Oct 17, 2004)

Check these out - http://www.chrismasonmusic.com/photos.php, http://come.to/chrismason, http://www.bw-darts.com/shop/2/12/


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## chris mason (Oct 18, 2004)

CowPimp said:
			
		

> I love how everyone avoids my comments because they realize how worthless, petty, and immature this whole argument is. Oh well, continue your bickering. I'm not even going to look in this thread anymore. It's a dissapointment.


I am not ignoring it.  I am sorry about the direction this thread has taken, I did not intend it to do so.  

Eric, just like in the past, cannot help but bullshit and I, just like in the past, cannot help but call him on it.

I will endeavor not to do so in the future.


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## gopro (Oct 18, 2004)

chris mason said:
			
		

> I am not ignoring it.  I am sorry about the direction this thread has taken, I did not intend it to do so.
> 
> Eric, just like in the past, cannot help but bullshit and I, just like in the past, cannot help but call him on it.
> 
> I will endeavor not to do so in the future.



I'm sorry about the direction this thread had taken as well, but when it comes to Chris I cannot let it go b/c he is a "grown up bully" that needs to be put in his place. Apparently when he was young and stealing other kids' lunch money nobody has the balls to stand up to him creating a pattern till this day.

Chris, please name ONE THING that I have bullshitted about in this entire thread...AND, please accept my challenge to meet me onstage so I can shut your fat mouth once and for all.

Or, choose to not even answer me back and it will be squashed until next time you open your mouth again. Or maybe you should just save the trouble and stay over at WBB...trust me that I won't go over there again and thus you can play God all you want, which will keep your ego filled to the brim.

**As to everyone else, please understand that although occassional BS like this must be dealt with...and you may not agree with the way I handle it (which is ok...you do things your way and I do things my way)...that my MAIN purpose here is to always help you out as much as I possibly can and to hasten you on your path to reaching your bodybuilding/fitness goals.


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## Saturday Fever (Oct 18, 2004)

Wow, when I bumped this thread from a year ago, this isn't where I meant it to go. I said I disagreed with parts, but as those parts did not in any way lessen the ideas presented, I said it was a solid post.

The ideas presented in the first post are a great way for any lifter to structure work for their back. Do I agree with the angles and whatever? No. Do I think any lifter can and will benefit? Absolutely.


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## chris mason (Oct 18, 2004)

Lol, ok GoPro, you asked for it.  

You see, there is something about the internet which harms lairs like yourself.  Everything you type is reserved for posterity sake...

Let's take a look at a post you made on www.wannabebig.com some time back:







 03-10-2002, 02:58 PM   #*172* *gopro* vbmenu_register("postmenu_153405", true);  
Big and Getting Bigger

Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 660 


 

Thanks for posting a link to that pic Mr A. Just in case you are curious, that pic was taken at a show I did in 1999, weighing in at 198. I was shredded that day, but came in too flat...tried something new with my carb load that I did not respond well to. I still managed 4th at that show which isn't bad considering it was my first shot at a pro qualifier(drug free org.).

This year I should compete about 15-18 lbs heavier with even better hardness and density. I am still in off season training, but about ready to transition into a "pre" pre-contest mode.

Monstar...thanks for the compliment.

Yes, let this thread continue about arm training. I have nothing more to say to Chris, and I hope he has nothing more to say to, or about, me.





 

 

 

 

 
goproView Public ProfileSend a private message to goproSend email to goproFind More Posts by goproAdd gopro to Your Buddy List




Ok, so that was in 1999 when you did *your first pro qualifier according to your own words then.*

Now, here is a quote from this thread:

"Ok, so I guess we will not be meeting onstage...oh well...figured that. Anyway, in regard to your mention about my name gopro, and me turning pro. Here is one piece of info for you that you may find interesting...I earned my natural pro card in my early 20s in an organization called the ANPPC. I won it at a pro qualifier in Las Vegas, and it was truly awesome to do so."

Now, in this thread you said you will soon be 36.  So, you would have been in your early 20s in the late 80s.  

So, you lied then or you are lying now, which one is it?

Oh, and remember, you asked me to point our your b.s. 

I had actually made this same post earlier today and had deleted it, but you have pushed me to repost it.


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## Arnold (Oct 18, 2004)

I have to say one thing here Chris, you're keeping entirely too close of tabs on Eric and what he has done, and said in the past.


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## chris mason (Oct 18, 2004)

Just calling a spade a spade.  When someone calls me out I respond...


I am sorry about this crap on your site (my part in it) and will refrain from it in the future.


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## gopro (Oct 18, 2004)

chris mason said:
			
		

> Just calling a spade a spade.  When someone calls me out I respond...
> 
> 
> I am sorry about this crap on your site (my part in it) and will refrain from it in the future.



Moron...that was the first pro qualifier I did since the ANPPC went defunct. Do you want me to mail you my trophy? Cause if that will help, I will. The ANPPC show was actually in 1990, and I was 21 at the time.

So, once again you have proved yourself the ass that you are, and have shown that your 3 children probably have a leg up on you in the maturity department as well. 

I think you better start being a better role model to them if your behavior on message boards is any indication of how you are in other areas of your life.

In your next video I hope you can shoot yourself in the process of growing up...


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## gopro (Oct 18, 2004)

Saturday Fever said:
			
		

> Wow, when I bumped this thread from a year ago, this isn't where I meant it to go. I said I disagreed with parts, but as those parts did not in any way lessen the ideas presented, I said it was a solid post.
> 
> The ideas presented in the first post are a great way for any lifter to structure work for their back. Do I agree with the angles and whatever? No. Do I think any lifter can and will benefit? Absolutely.



Of course you didn't mean it to go this way SNF, buy then you had no clue that Chris would start acting like a 3 year old. 

Thanks for the bump though.


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## Cold Iron (Oct 18, 2004)

Saturday Fever said:
			
		

> Wow, when I bumped this thread from a year ago, this isn't where I meant it to go. I said I disagreed with parts, but as those parts did not in any way lessen the ideas presented, I said it was a solid post.
> 
> The ideas presented in the first post are a great way for any lifter to structure work for their back. Do I agree with the angles and whatever? No. Do I think any lifter can and will benefit? Absolutely.




so youre the one to blame....


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## gopro (Oct 19, 2004)

Arnie's left nu said:
			
		

> so youre the one to blame....



LOL


----------



## pumpthatiron (Feb 7, 2005)

gopro man, you're the biggest beast.  Can i please see your pictures to see what hard work can accomplish?


----------



## PreMier (Feb 7, 2005)

What a thread.  Gopro, are you still going to compete this year..?


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 7, 2005)

What a joke this thread is.


----------



## ph8bringer (Feb 7, 2005)

Heh, but it just gave me good back info, because I've never seen this thread before.


----------



## ChrisROCK (Feb 8, 2005)

ph8bringer said:
			
		

> Heh, but it just gave me good back info, because I've never seen this thread before.


Agreed... Much of what GP said, I incorporate into my routine... nice to confirm what I'm doing comes reccommended...


----------



## Du (Feb 8, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> What a joke this thread is.


----------



## gopro (Feb 8, 2005)

pumpthatiron said:
			
		

> gopro man, you're the biggest beast.  Can i please see your pictures to see what hard work can accomplish?



WOW...this thread was certainly brought back from the dead!!   

Well, thanks for the compliment, but I'm far from the biggest beast...Ronnie may have me there, LOL...although he has a few more chemicals floating around his body than I do!!   

As far as pics go...still don't have any recent ones. Not much of a picture taker.


----------



## gopro (Feb 8, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> What a thread.  Gopro, are you still going to compete this year..?



Yeah, really! LOL!

Will I compete? Good question. Part of me would love to do it again...part of me would hate to do it again. I know I could be the best I ever was this year, but not sure if I want to make the sacrifices involved to get there anymore.


----------



## gopro (Feb 8, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> What a joke this thread is.



It wasn't originally.


----------



## gopro (Feb 8, 2005)

ph8bringer said:
			
		

> Heh, but it just gave me good back info, because I've never seen this thread before.



Then I'm glad it was ressurrected


----------



## pumpthatiron (Feb 8, 2005)

i'm a thread digger loll. I bring threads back from the dead.  Gopro man, please take some pictures..


----------



## pumpthatiron (Feb 8, 2005)

I think you should make this thread a sticky


----------



## gopro (Feb 8, 2005)

pumpthatiron said:
			
		

> i'm a thread digger loll. I bring threads back from the dead.  Gopro man, please take some pictures..



LOL.

I will take some pics soon.


----------



## chris mason (Feb 8, 2005)

For anyone interested I have posted pictures on this site and I just posted a video of me deadlifting 625 lbs without a belt and using a hook grip (double overhand).

The video is posted in Monstar's latest journal.


----------



## ChrisROCK (Feb 8, 2005)

oh lord... here we go again.  Pretty safe to assume that nobody is interested!


----------



## DOMS (Feb 8, 2005)

chris mason said:
			
		

> For anyone interested I have posted pictures on this site and I just posted a video of me deadlifting 625 lbs without a belt and using a hook grip (double overhand).
> 
> The video is posted in Monstar's latest journal.
> 
> You know, me, the guy who is an idiot and has no idea how to train his back. The same guy who will let pictures and videos speak louder than words.


 I went to your gallery...uhhhhh...there's a small dot to the left.  Is that you?


----------



## pumpthatiron (Feb 8, 2005)

chris i dont think anybodys interested.  Thanks for asking tho...


----------



## PreMier (Feb 8, 2005)

Im interested.  Not in the arguing, but your progress.(Chris, provide a link please..)

GP I think you should compete.


----------



## gopro (Feb 8, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> Im interested.  Not in the arguing, but your progress.(Chris, provide a link please..)
> 
> GP I think you should compete.



Why?


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 8, 2005)

I am also interested Chris.  Very interested.


----------



## gopro (Feb 9, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> I am also interested Chris.  Very interested.



Ok, thats 2 interested and 2 not interested!! Next vote wins!! Wooohoo!!


----------



## sgtneo (Feb 9, 2005)

im interrested in seeing this as well please post link 

Neo


----------



## gopro (Feb 9, 2005)

sgtneo said:
			
		

> im interrested in seeing this as well please post link
> 
> Neo



He said link can be found in Monstar's journal.


----------



## sgtneo (Feb 9, 2005)

found the link but it doesnt work fro some reason link may be down

Neo


----------



## chris mason (Feb 9, 2005)

It works, it is just a big file and until it completely downloads you will see a blank screen.


http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=41900&page=5&pp=30

The link is on that page.

Oh, and you will need QuickTime.


----------



## sgtneo (Feb 9, 2005)

im currently downloading 250mb file so i will give it another try later was just saying that file is done andthen doing nothing for me

Neo


----------



## chris mason (Feb 9, 2005)

Yep, just be patient, it comes.


----------



## ChrisROCK (Feb 9, 2005)

not worth the wait personally...


----------



## gopro (Feb 9, 2005)

ChrisROCK said:
			
		

> not worth the wait personally...



LOL...but watching the chick in your sig always is!!


----------



## Seanp156 (Feb 9, 2005)

Yeah, my back has definately been one of the hardest/slowest things as far as visual progression for me and I'm just finally starting to get some definition in it (still not much though). I really need to take some pics...


----------



## chris mason (Feb 9, 2005)

ChrisROCK said:
			
		

> not worth the wait personally...


I'm surprised, you seem to have the patience to download porn...


----------



## ChrisROCK (Feb 9, 2005)

chris mason said:
			
		

> I'm surprised, you seem to have the patience to download porn...


   What a terrible comparison that is!  Your big ole' hairy back, to some fine pussy?   Thanks, i'll take the pussy any time!   

Was that a lame attempt at a jab at me?


----------



## sgtneo (Feb 9, 2005)

lol now now people calm down some people prefer porn others hairy men and i do have to agree i can sit and watch the sig for hours

Neo


----------



## chris mason (Feb 9, 2005)

Yep.  I suppose I would follow that up with if you had a girlfriend you wouldn't need it, but that would be mean.

I do appreciate you admitting I have a big back.


----------



## SlimShady (Feb 9, 2005)

Here is a direct link to the movie file, so people don't have to go seaching thru the journal for a link. Pretty impressive lift. 

  http://www.wannabebig.com/vids/Chris%20-%20Deadlift%20625%20(hook).mov


----------



## sgtneo (Feb 9, 2005)

you should provide a download link for this file takes for ever to come up and we could atleast see progress that way 

ill hold on and wait though

Neo


----------



## sgtneo (Feb 9, 2005)

nope dont load for me comes up server cannot be found 

think it times out


----------



## gopro (Feb 9, 2005)

If it really takes THAT long to see you could always fly out to where Chris lives and have him do it in front of you


----------



## ChrisROCK (Feb 9, 2005)

chris mason said:
			
		

> Yep. I suppose I would follow that up with if you had a girlfriend you wouldn't need it, but that would be mean.
> 
> I do appreciate you admitting I have a big back.


Don't flatter yourself pal...it was a figure of speech. There's not a single thing about your body that I would want on mine...nothing...including the big ole' hairy back. 

As for my girlfriend...you could only dream of being with a woman like her...Because I enjoy porn doesn't make me single...it just makes me a typical man!


----------



## gopro (Feb 9, 2005)

ChrisROCK said:
			
		

> Don't flatter yourself pal...it was a figure of speech.



You are admitting that he has a hairy back though? Aren't you? Answer the question sir...aren't you!

LOL


----------



## sgtneo (Feb 9, 2005)

lol it would have to be incredably hairy for me to fly out there, nah actually doesnt matter how hairy his back is i wouldnt fly out there

Neo


----------



## BoneCrusher (Feb 9, 2005)

I was hoping this thread would have died its needed death back in October.  Ego battles and the internet do not mix with anything resembling class in the end.  Out in the real world between men there's a line that we can all see and work from ... here there is none.  It makes this whole thing pointless.



 We have a few icons here at IM and GoPro is one of them.  The image that he and others like him present are more important to the site then this petty squable.  IMHO something like this diminishes  that value ... in this case uselessly so.

 It would be nice if this thread were edited to leave only the quality information on building a large back ...


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 9, 2005)

The only thing I see when I think about GoPro is his arrogance


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Feb 9, 2005)

BoneCrusher said:
			
		

> I was hoping this thread would have died its needed death back in October.  Ego battles and the internet do not mix with anything resembling class in the end.  Out in the real world between men there's a line that we can all see and work from ... here there is none.  It makes this whole thing pointless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree



			
				soxmuscle said:
			
		

> The only thing I see when I think about GoPro is his arrogance


 soxmuscle don't make things worse.


----------



## DeadBolt (Feb 9, 2005)

Somethings are just better left alone....int his case i think it applies.  I could say alot of stuff here but would rather keep my mouth shut for the sake of it.  No point to arguing here...and honestly I know the second I put someone in their place I'd have to back up my reasoning and frankly my shoulder hurts to much to deal with it.

Your lucky sox.


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 9, 2005)

DeadBolt said:
			
		

> Somethings are just better left alone....int his case i think it applies. I could say alot of stuff here but would rather keep my mouth shut for the sake of it. No point to arguing here...and honestly I know the second I put someone in their place I'd have to back up my reasoning and frankly my shoulder hurts to much to deal with it.
> 
> Your lucky sox.


What on earth are you talking about?


----------



## PreMier (Feb 9, 2005)

I think he was threatening you


----------



## PreMier (Feb 9, 2005)

gopro said:
			
		

> Why?



Why not?  You said you would be your BEST EVER.  If I was looking my best ever, I would want to compete.


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 9, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> I think he was threatening you


It looks like that, haha.


----------



## chris mason (Feb 9, 2005)

I would think anyone interested in strength training and or bodybuilding would like to see a video of a RAW 625 lb deadlift.  I know I love to watch videos of others lifting big weights.

For me, credibility is very important in terms of speaking the truth on the net (and elsewhere) and backing it up.  If I did not have a strong back I would not be able to perform the lift I have documented.  If you want a big back you will need to use big weights.  I would always rather take advice from the person whose ideas make sense AND who can show that their ideas work.  

For the guys defending GoPro I can understand your point but I cannot understand why you don't get mine?  

In any event, I will do my best to comment no further on this thread because I tend to agree with the fellow who mentioned that this sort of thing does nothing for the members.


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 9, 2005)

Good post, Chris.  I think its complete bullshit to sit around while people led by gopro are laughing at your thoughts.  It's ridiculous, and just shows how pathetic some people are.

Oh, and by the way gopro, not responding shows your arrogance even more.  I have nothing against you, hell I don't even think I have ever said a word to you ever, but if I come in and see something I dont like, I am not going to sit here and do nothing.


----------



## ihateschoolmt (Feb 9, 2005)

I'm not talking sides but Gopro isn't on this forum right now, he can't respond...


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 9, 2005)

ihateschoolmt said:
			
		

> I'm not talking sides but Gopro isn't on this forum right now, he can't respond...


He was for about two hours this afternoon.


----------



## ChrisROCK (Feb 9, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> Good post, Chris. I think its complete bullshit to sit around while people led by gopro are laughing at your thoughts. It's ridiculous, and just shows how pathetic some people are.
> 
> Oh, and by the way gopro, not responding shows your arrogance even more. I have nothing against you, hell I don't even think I have ever said a word to you ever, but if I come in and see something I dont like, I am not going to sit here and do nothing.


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 9, 2005)

ChrisROCK said:
			
		

>


Intelligent post.


----------



## ChrisROCK (Feb 9, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> Intelligent post.


 Just like post #159? 

FYI, it wasn't meant to be intelligent...i was simply laughing at you...


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 9, 2005)

ChrisROCK said:
			
		

> Just like post #159?
> 
> FYI, it wasn't meant to be intelligent...i was simply laughing at you...


How about instead of simply placing an emoticon, you tell me why you were laughing at me?  What a concept, huh?  You fit under that "pathetic" group that I had stated in that post 159.


----------



## ChrisROCK (Feb 9, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> How about instead of simply placing an emoticon, you tell me why you were laughing at me? What a concept, huh? You fit under that "pathetic" group that I had stated in that post 159.


dude...you're 17...  When your brain develops a tad bit more and you wanna engage in some intelligent debate....let me know!  Till then...beat it!


----------



## Du (Feb 9, 2005)

ChrisROCK said:
			
		

> dude...you're 17... When your brain develops a tad bit more and you wanna engage in some intelligent debate....let me know! Till then...beat it!


He may be 17 but hes got a hell of a good point. 

Was that your way of dancing around the answer he requested?


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 9, 2005)

ChrisROCK said:
			
		

> dude...you're 17... When your brain develops a tad bit more and you wanna engage in some intelligent debate....let me know! Till then...beat it!


I am a smarter person than you.  How about this?  You stop it with the third grade chatter, open your fucking eyes, and actually start making some sense.

Capiche?


----------



## BoneCrusher (Feb 9, 2005)

OK so people that are new or lurking see a thread about working their back and come in to check it out.  Do they learn about muscle reaction to to various training techniques?  No they see people acting like you are now.   Find a better thread to argue in ...


----------



## ChrisROCK (Feb 9, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> I am a smarter person than you. How about this? You stop it with the third grade chatter, open your fucking eyes, and actually start making some sense.
> 
> Capiche?


In your dreams son...on all counts...  

"I am a smarter person than you"  (At HS algebra...perhaps!)  Could you be any more gay?


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 9, 2005)

ChrisROCK said:
			
		

> In your dreams son...on all counts...
> 
> "I am a smarter person than you" (At HS algebra...perhaps!) Could you be any more gay?


Haha, Du.  I just don't think he gets it.


----------



## Du (Feb 9, 2005)

ChrisROCK said:
			
		

> In your dreams son...on all counts...
> 
> "I am a smarter person than you" (At HS algebra...perhaps!) Could you be any more gay?


You still havent answered his question. 

And youve stooped down lower than what youre giving him shit for.


----------



## Du (Feb 9, 2005)

ChrisROCK said:
			
		

> Could you be any more gay?


Listen. 

Youre knockin him for bein 17. But, you come out with the above, and it has to be one of the most immature "comebacks" out there. My 13 year old brother doesnt even say that anymore. Being a fag has nothing to do with this argument; keep it as mature as you can. Youre the one that has dragged this to an elementary school level.


----------



## ChrisROCK (Feb 9, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> Good post, Chris. I think its complete bullshit to sit around while people led by gopro are laughing at your thoughts. It's ridiculous, and just shows how pathetic some people are.
> 
> Oh, and by the way gopro, not responding shows your arrogance even more. I have nothing against you, hell I don't even think I have ever said a word to you ever, but if I come in and see something I dont like, I am not going to sit here and do nothing.


 
OK...let's see here...  What was funny about this post?

*"people LED by gopro"*..that's funny to me!  I respect his knowledge of body building and his contributions to this forum.  Does that make me a "follower" of his...no. 

I personally haven't "laughed at Chris' thoughts" at all in this thread.  What I have found amusing was how he has called out gopro to post vids or pictures of himself.  NOT everyone takes videos and pictures of themselves working out in their basement.

And I  was also laughing at you calling gopro arrogant.  If you equate success with arrogance, then that seems like a personal problem you're dealing with.  I've NEVER once seen an instance of GP being arrogant.  In this thread Chris outright questioned him and his knowledge and called him out...would that not make one defend themselves...yet you call it arrogance.  Show me other threads of this "arrogance".


----------



## SlimShady (Feb 9, 2005)

Is any of this crap worth fighting over?


----------



## BoneCrusher (Feb 9, 2005)

How ya been Slim?


----------



## SlimShady (Feb 9, 2005)

BoneCrusher said:
			
		

> How ya been Slim?


 I'm doing better. I've been on a bulk and I'm finally gaining some weight. I'm starting look better now. How about you?


----------



## Flex (Feb 9, 2005)

How about all you bitches just


----------



## BoneCrusher (Feb 9, 2005)

Doin' good man.  Good luck on the bulking cycle bro.  You hittin' the sup's or just pounding down the cal's?


----------



## brogers (Feb 9, 2005)

Impressive lift and grip Chris Mason, wow.


----------



## SlimShady (Feb 9, 2005)

Eatin' so many calories I feel like I'm gonna explode. I've never eaten so much food in my life. I hope it gets easier. I gained 1.5 lbs this week.


----------



## j rizz (Feb 9, 2005)

ahahah this thread was kind of amusing and actually enjoyed.
id like to give a thank you to everyone who took place in the arguments and fighting... it gave me great entertainment..thanks!!


----------



## DeadBolt (Feb 9, 2005)

j rizz said:
			
		

> ahahah this thread was kind of amusing and actually enjoyed.
> id like to give a thank you to everyone who took place in the arguments and fighting... it gave me great entertainment..thanks!!


Same here LOL...

Sorry I went out for a bit sox...shoulder still hurts so I'm not gonna type much.

I think both know their shit and both of them are very experinced.  The fact that you call gopro such things as  arrogant just is amuzing b/c you admited yourself that you have never held a convo with the man.  How do you come up with that bud?  The man knows his shit and when someone calls him out on it and bashes something hes worked on for 15 years I think he has all the right to be an out right dick.  Thats my opinion and I could honestly care less of what others think of it.  

Oh and who the fuck cares if he didn't respond....ever think he was busy?  Not everyone has the capability of running home from school and sitting on a forum all day.  When ya grow up you lose alot of time dealing with the real world and doing other things.  Don't bash the man for no reason...he never did anything to you so why slander his name all over this thread giving new comers a false impression?  I think if anything has been defined in this thread is how big of an immature jackass you are.  I never have had any problems with you sox b/c you were for the most part a pretty respectable decent guy but I think you crossed the line on this.

Oh and btw...mason thats an awsome pull brotha!!  I commend you on the lift!!


----------



## gopro (Feb 9, 2005)

I actually have no idea what the hell sox is even talking about. This thread WAS dead long ago and someone brought it back. Chris came on here and posted that people could go watch his 625 lb deadlift AND made a snide remark at the same time, which I promptly deleted so as not to have any more bullshit started. I COULD HAVE responded back in the same spirit, but chose not to. I also could have deleted his whole post, but I left the part about the deadlift b/c I thought some people would like to see it. I made no derrogatory remarks at all. Then some people commented in not being interested and some wanted to see it. Ok, had nothing to do with me, except I made a joke about the score being 2-2...nothing arrogant or derogatory. Then there was some comments about Chris's back being hairy and I made a light-hearted joke about it, but not even directed at Chris. SO, where did I come off as arrogant and why is the bullshit being brought up again when I actually took lengths to avoid it.

And by the way, I was never on for 2 hours straight. I only pop in and out for minutes at a time.

And to Premier in regards to competing...just because I know I am capable of being better than ever this year does not mean that I SHOULD compete. I get better every year as I continue to train harder and longer and refine my techinique and program. Getting ready for a show in the manner that I do so is something that takes a ridiculous amount of sacrifice, time, and energy...and it takes away from many other things in life. I have alot of projects in the works and probably work about 15 hours per day, so getting ready for a show right now would probably kill me.

That said, it does not mean that later this year, or next year, or the year after I won't find myself in a better position to compete, as I DO plan to win back the pro card that I lost years ago (but obviously with another organization), as well as see just how far I can take my conditioning naturally.


----------



## gopro (Feb 9, 2005)

And one more thing...

A sincere thank you to all at IM that continue to get my back.


----------



## Duncans Donuts (Feb 9, 2005)

This thing should have been padlocked long ago.

BTW, I think arrogance portrayed with good humor and in a way that doesn't deride newbies makes this forum much, much more interesting.  I'm very arrogant.


----------



## gopro (Feb 9, 2005)

Duncans Donuts said:
			
		

> This thing should have been padlocked long ago.
> 
> BTW, I think arrogance portrayed with good humor and in a way that doesn't deride newbies makes this forum much, much more interesting.  I'm very arrogant.



If it continues to go bad, I will.

And by the way...some people confuse confidence with arrogance.


----------



## ChrisROCK (Feb 9, 2005)

gopro said:
			
		

> And by the way...some people confuse confidence with arrogance.


Exactly what I said in response to SOX....

FWIW, I apologize to all for contributing to this thread taking a turn for the worse.  Not my intent...


----------



## PreMier (Feb 9, 2005)

gopro said:
			
		

> And to Premier in regards to competing...just because I know I am capable of being better than ever this year does not mean that I SHOULD compete. I get better every year as I continue to train harder and longer and refine my techinique and program. Getting ready for a show in the manner that I do so is something that takes a ridiculous amount of sacrifice, time, and energy...and it takes away from many other things in life. I have alot of projects in the works and probably work about 15 hours per day, so getting ready for a show right now would probably kill me.



Your scared.  I can understand lol


----------



## gopro (Feb 9, 2005)

PreMier said:
			
		

> Your scared.  I can understand lol



Ok, you got me


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 9, 2005)

DeadBolt said:
			
		

> Same here LOL...
> 
> Sorry I went out for a bit sox...shoulder still hurts so I'm not gonna type much.
> 
> ...


You don't have to hold a conversation with someone on a message board to tell if they are arrogant or not.  I have read plenty of posts to base my opinion on, and thats that.

Obviously he knows his stuff, obviously he knows what hes doing, and clearly I am in no way taking that away from him.  That was never my intention at all.

I simply did not like how Chris was being treated when gopro's arrogance was the reason the argument started in the first place.  Again, its all opinion, but I won't sit and watch Chris get laughed at and taunted because gopro is a more storied person here on IM.  Thats ridiculous.  

I find it funny that you mention the fact that I shouldn't say what I said in fear to tarnish gopros status to newcomers, when for page after page lame jabs were being made towards Chris.  I got what I wanted, so frankly you can think I am jackass all you want, I have some freinds here on IM, I get my help so thats fine by me.


----------



## BoneCrusher (Feb 9, 2005)

A little levity ...

Stuck in Hell​ 
One day  a guy died and found himself in hell. As he was wallowing in despair, he had  his first meeting with a demon.

     The demon asked, "Why so  glum?"

     The guy responded, "What do you think? I'm in  hell!"

     "Hell's not so bad," the demon said. "We actually have a lot of  fun down here. You a drinking man?"

     "Sure," the man said, "I love to  drink."

 "Well, you're gonna love Mondays then. On Mondays all we do is drink. Whiskey, tequila, Guinness, wine coolers, diet Tab and Fresca. We drink till we throw up and then we drink some more!"

     The guy is  astounded. "Damn, that sounds great."

     "You lift weights?" the demon  asked.

     "You better believe it!"

     "You're gonna love Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays then. We have the  _*best *_steel and work-out equipment. We have all the best ASS's, PH's, HGH's, and Sup's in the world with no worries on sides ... if your liver falls out or you get cancer, no biggie.
     You're already dead, remember?"

     "Wow, the  guy said, "that's awesome!"

     The demon continued. "I bet you like to  gamble."

     "Why yes, as a matter of fact I do."

 "Wednesdays you can gamble all you want. Craps, blackjack, roulette, poker, slots, whatever. If you go bankrupt, well, you're dead anyhow. You into drugs?"

     The guy  said, "Are you kidding? I love drugs! You don't mean . . .."

 "That's right! Thursday is drug day. Help yourself to a great big bowl of crack, or smack. Smoke a doobie the size of a submarine. You can do all the drugs you want, you're dead, who cares!"

     "Wow," the guy said, starting to feel  better about his situation, "I never realized Hell was such a cool  place!"

     The demon said, "You gay?"

     "No."

     "Ooooh, you're  gonna hate Fridays!"


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 9, 2005)

breaking the mood...


----------



## PreMier (Feb 9, 2005)

This will break the mood.  Along withe the weak bach of this thread.. the mother of ALL posts..


----------



## gopro (Feb 9, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> You don't have to hold a conversation with someone on a message board to tell if they are arrogant or not.  I have read plenty of posts to base my opinion on, and thats that.
> 
> Obviously he knows his stuff, obviously he knows what hes doing, and clearly I am in no way taking that away from him.  That was never my intention at all.
> 
> ...



Well, at age 17, I don't expect you to have a real understanding of much of anything...but you have time to learn. I am glad you decided to stir up shit again for absolutely no reason...it was very helpful. 

Again, some people have no ability to discern the difference between confidence and arrogance...and I can assure you...and this is not a derrogatory remark about Chris at all (b/c we are more similar than you think)...if you think I AM arrogant you should feel exactly the same way about Chris.

Anyway, lets keep this thread about back training or I will just close it down for good.


----------



## pumpthatiron (Feb 9, 2005)

gopro said:
			
		

> And one more thing...
> 
> A sincere thank you to all at IM that continue to get my _back_.


 no pun intended? lolll that was too funny.


----------



## pumpthatiron (Feb 9, 2005)

(pun on the word back) lol


----------



## soxmuscle (Feb 9, 2005)

gopro said:
			
		

> Well, at age 17, I don't expect you to have a real understanding of much of anything...but you have time to learn. I am glad you decided to stir up shit again for absolutely no reason...it was very helpful.
> 
> Again, some people have no ability to discern the difference between confidence and arrogance...and I can assure you...and this is not a derrogatory remark about Chris at all (b/c we are more similar than you think)...if you think I AM arrogant you should feel exactly the same way about Chris.
> 
> Anyway, lets keep this thread about back training or I will just close it down for good.


*ar·ro·gant*
_adj._ 

Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance
Yup, fits the bill.  

By the way P, i think you did a little more than just break the mood, you broke my computer... theres got to be a limit on bandwith, jesus h.


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## Flex (Feb 10, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> *ar·ro·gant*
> _adj._
> 
> Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance
> Yup, fits the bill.








This was just a joke, so relax. I think your problem is that you're mistaking Gopro's knowledge and confidence with arrogance and cockiness.


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## gopro (Feb 10, 2005)

soxmuscle said:
			
		

> *ar·ro·gant*
> _adj._
> 
> Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance
> ...



Whats the defintion of stupidity?

Arguing with a 17 year old child that thinks he has a clue about ANYTHING at his age...for this, I claim stupidity.


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