# Question about creatine, glutamine, protein whey. Stacked?



## cynistr (Mar 29, 2008)

I've heard many different points about mixing these three supplements. Some saying that you can't mix creatine and glutamine and so forth. I want to know the best and most productive way to take all three. Currently, the way I use these supplements is as followed:

Upon waking up: Protein Whey drink 31 grams with 5 grams of glutamine

Before working out: (usually 1-1/2 hour after waking up) 5 grams of creatine monohydrate with bottled gatorade.( I have a question about that too)

Post workout: 3 grams of creatine mixed with 3 grams of Leucine

30 minutes after workout: Protein whey drink (31 grams)

Before sleeping: Protein Whey 31 grams with 5 grams of glutamine.

Is this schedule okay or is there a better way to optimize these supplements. I work out 6 days a week.
My other question is about mixing bottled gatorade with my creatine monohydrate. The gatorade has citric acid in it and I was wondering if that will cancel out the creatine or turn it into useless creatine (creatinine). Should I just take it with water?


----------



## Built (Mar 29, 2008)

First up, whey's just food. Think of it as protein and be done with it. One of the aminos already present in whey is glutamine, so the glutamine you are supplementing with is quite utterly a waste. Read here for more.

Leucine is a BCAA, nothing wrong with it but unless you're on a starvation diet I wouldn't waste my money - a cup of cottage cheese has about 5g of leucine in it. I'm sure you're already getting plenty.

Creatine 5g a day take it anytime, and be done with it. The rest you'll just pee out anyway.

Re gatorade, it's fine - but basically it's just overpriced sugar-water. Plain dextrose powder is cheaper - you can buy it anyplace wine-making supplies are sold. Mix a scoop of dextrose with a scoop of whey and dilute it in at least a litre of water. Try that preworkout, and sip another one DURING your workout instead of the gatoraid. Better and cheaper.


----------



## nni (Mar 29, 2008)

cynistr said:


> I've heard many different points about mixing these three supplements. Some saying that you can't mix creatine and glutamine and so forth. I want to know the best and most productive way to take all three. Currently, the way I use these supplements is as followed:
> 
> Upon waking up: Protein Whey drink 31 grams with 5 grams of glutamine
> 
> ...



glutamine is a waste forget it.
protein powder is used to help meet your dietary protein needs, there is no time to take it. the only time is post workout with a carb source.
taking creatine with a carb source is a good idea, but bottled gatorade has HFCS and is a bad idea. if you are enamored with gatorade get the powdered stuff from target, no hfcs. 
creatine can be taken pre or post, just take 5g.
like i said protein + carbs post (could be gatorade).
pre bed you want casein protein, not whey, but again, this isnt 100% necessary. eat some cottage cheese instead.


----------



## sirflo (Apr 11, 2008)

how can the most abundant amino acid in the body be a waste?...and besides if you don't supplement it adequately, due to the major organs using most of the circulating glutamine up, your muscles will not be volumized to the fullest...i personally have used a post workout concoction of whey,creatine,glutamine and dextrose for years and at age 44 i know my body extremely well as to what works and what does not work...i too used to spend unneccesary money on useless supplements during the golden age of supplements(early 90's)...through trial and era i figured it out for me...to say that glutamine is a waste is ludacris...the problem with most people is that they don't understand their body and the unique science of one's self...train hard,supplement smart, eat and rest appropiately and you will see results...it takes time to build quality muscle grasshooper...be patient, find a smart trainer that understands progression and how to build quality muscle, learn from him/her and watch your body do mind boggling things...peace out, sirflo


----------



## Amino89 (Apr 11, 2008)

Your fine on mixing them all. Oral Glutamine supplementation is a waste here is why: 



cakedonkey said:


> _1: Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2006 Oct;31(5):518-29._
> 
> *Addition of glutamine to essential amino acids and carbohydrate does not enhance anabolism in young human males following exercise.*
> 
> ...




Look into L-Leucine (this is the protein synthesis powerhouse, not Glutamine as once thought) in the form of EAA's.


----------



## Built (Apr 11, 2008)

sirflo said:


> how can the most abundant amino acid in the body be a waste?



Well, let's see here. 
Berardi, quoting Barr: John Berardi - Appetite For Construction, Nov 8 2002
"â???¢ A high protein diet provides a big whack of glutamine as it is. In fact, if you follow standard bodybuilding protein recommendations, about 10% of your total dietary protein intake is composed of glutamine (milk proteins are composed of somewhere between 3 â?????? 10% glutamine while meat is composed of about 15% glutamine). This means that a high protein diet (400g/day) already provides me with about 40g of glutamine. "
Okay - that's a lot of protein! I eat about 200g a day, so for me, 20g of glutamine are already in my diet. 
When I used to supplement with it, I'd get in 5g in my shake daily. Wow, an extra 5g! Still, sounds like it would help, right? 
Turns out, not really. See a great deal of orally injested glutamine is taken up by the gut. Your muscles won't know the difference once what little remains hits your blood stream. To a well-fed bodybuilder, taking 5-10g extra glutamine daily and saying it makes a difference  is like saying "yesterday, I drank an extra half-cup of water and I was SO MUCH BETTER HYDRATED!". Sure, technically you are a little better hydrated - but ultimately if you do this every day you just pee more. You won't notice it. 

Same thing with the supplemented glutamine.
Now, it is NOT useless: if you're in a burn unit, getting it in an IV drip for example because you can't swallow, and you're getting in 40g a day, it'll help:
Amino Acid Supplements I: Glutamine
"The usual dose of orally administered glutamine for the various applications mentioned above is 0.5-0.57 grams/kilogram of body weight, which is about 25-30 grams per day for an adult who has low muscle mass (e.g., body weight of only 50 kg, about 110 pounds). Recommended adult doses of glutamine taken orally range from as little as 5 grams per day (roughly matching the dietary levels) to about 40 grams per day (higher doses become impractical to administer and may provide no further benefits). The dosing is partly determined by body weight, with doses of 0.1-0.8 grams/kg being given according to various recommendations; the largest amounts are usually reserved for cases where there is little dietary glutamine and high need for it, such as after intestinal surgery when the patient cannot eat ordinary foods. Because glutamine is efficiently absorbed in the small intestine, blood levels reach a peak within an hour after ingestion. IV administration of glutamine is only utilized when parenteral feeding is already required. "

Note how higher doses don't appear to increase the benefit of this supplement, even for those whose health is severly compromised.

For a well-fed BB who already takes in 20+g daily through diet, supplementing will do one thing very well: lighten your wallet!


----------



## lucifuge (Apr 11, 2008)

no kidding....
thanks for the heads up on glutamine folks!


----------



## nadirmg (Apr 12, 2008)

Built said:


> Re gatorade, it's fine - but basically it's just overpriced sugar-water. Plain dextrose powder is cheaper - you can buy it anyplace wine-making supplies are sold. Mix a scoop of dextrose with a scoop of whey and dilute it in at least a litre of water. Try that preworkout, and sip another one DURING your workout instead of the gatoraid. Better and cheaper.



a scoop of dextrose... the same size scoop that you use for whey?


----------



## Built (Apr 12, 2008)

I weighed one out a while back for one of my wannabebig columns. 

Dex is about twice as dense as most unsweetened/artificially sweetened commercially available whey powders. 

A 70cc scoop (this is the size of a typical protein-powder-scoop thingie that measures out the typical 20-25g protein serving) will measure out about 45g of dextrose, ballparkish.


----------



## nadirmg (Apr 12, 2008)

Built said:


> I weighed one out a while back for one of my wannabebig columns.
> 
> Dex is about twice as dense as most unsweetened/artificially sweetened commercially available whey powders.
> 
> A 70cc scoop (this is the size of a typical protein-powder-scoop thingie that measures out the typical 20-25g protein serving) will measure out about 45g of dextrose, ballparkish.



hrm, so i do or do not use a whey scoop-size scoop of dextrose in my w/o shake?


----------



## Built (Apr 12, 2008)

Use as much or as little as your comfort and calories allow. I prefer to chew my carbs so I don't bother with it myself - but it's great for bulking. 

When I do up a shake for my husband, he likes two scoops of protein and one scoop of dextrose. Toss your creatine into it if you're using it.


----------



## mpmurph29 (Aug 20, 2008)

*Ummm*

You should not take creatine and glutamine simultaneously because they fight for receptors so it'll end up cancelling one another out

Here's my routine.  (BTW, I work out in the morning)

Creatine, Leucine (Leukic Hardcore) 30-60min before workout

Optimum Nutrition Gold Standard 100% whey protein, 5g L-Glutamine post workout

30g Casein protein, 5g Glutamine before bed


----------



## Built (Aug 20, 2008)

mpmurph29 said:


> You should not take creatine and glutamine simultaneously because they fight for receptors so it'll end up cancelling one another out



Oh, do tell!


> Here's my routine.  (BTW, I work out in the morning)
> 
> Creatine, Leucine (Leukic Hardcore) 30-60min before workout
> 
> ...



You making good gains on all this? What actual food do you eat?


----------



## mpmurph29 (Aug 21, 2008)

Built said:


> Oh, do tell!
> 
> 
> You making good gains on all this? What actual food do you eat?



yes, prior to workout, i eat a ton of carbs...(oatmeal, pastas, etc)

immediately after workout i drink a protein shake

go home and take about a 1-2 hour nap

wake up and consume a huge meal....tons of calories and protein but relatively low fat

i also snack on whole grain and wheat based foods throughout the entire day...i really like wheat thins crackers

And i drink a ton of water (avg 16-8oz cups) per day.  I also drink a lot of fat free milk.  1 cup has like 8g protein.  I get about 64g protein through milk exclusively per day


----------



## Amino89 (Aug 21, 2008)

mpmurph29 said:


> *You should not take creatine and glutamine simultaneously because they fight for receptors so it'll end up cancelling one another out*
> 
> Here's my routine.  (BTW, I work out in the morning)
> 
> ...



That is a myth.


----------



## Built (Aug 21, 2008)

mpmurph29 said:


> yes, prior to workout, i eat a ton of carbs...(oatmeal, pastas, etc)
> 
> immediately after workout i drink a protein shake
> 
> ...



This is simple - your gains are coming from your training and the food you eat.

Surprise!


----------



## KelJu (Aug 21, 2008)

Amino89 said:


> That is a myth.


You say Tomato, 
I say tomato,
You say a myth,
I say total bullshit!


----------



## mpmurph29 (Aug 21, 2008)

Amino89 said:


> That is a myth.



idk
i know glutamine peptides are fine to combine with creatine

but it's still up in the air about regular l-glutamine/creatine negatively affecting each other

it shouldnt even be a big deal though because typically you take creatine pre-workout and glutamine post-workout


----------



## Built (Aug 21, 2008)

mpmurph29 said:


> idk
> i know glutamine peptides are fine to combine with creatine
> 
> but it's still up in the air about regular l-glutamine/creatine negatively affecting each other
> ...



If creatine gets cancelled out by glutamine, your body must nuke it pretty damned fast - glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in you - and there's a whole pile of it in the amino-acid profiles of whey, meat, milk... 

Quite honestly, if you're still spending your money on glutamine you haven't done much reading.


----------



## tucker01 (Aug 21, 2008)

Built said:


> Quite honestly, if you're still spending your money on glutamine you haven't done much reading.


----------



## mpmurph29 (Aug 21, 2008)

well i did an experiment and for 1 week worked out with absolutely no supps

then the next week, all i used was glutamine post workout alone and it did help with DOMS somewhat

me and 2 of my friends did this and we all experienced slightly better results with glutamine


----------



## Built (Aug 22, 2008)

Was it double-blind?


----------



## mpmurph29 (Aug 22, 2008)

it was a double blind/crossover

and it was led by someone not participating



BUT for what it's worth.....I would not continue to buy pure glutamine supp by itself....You can get a decent size serving of most EAAs and CAAs in any good Whey Protein


----------

