# Cardio for 6 pack?



## lil-bit-slim (Jul 24, 2013)

Ok so I've been working on my diet and a good abs routine...for those of you with stellar 6 packs, what kind of cardio would you suggest to get my abs pop'n? What kind of cardio do you do?

I'm not much a "runner"...as in I don't normally just run around the neighborhood or on a treadmill. But I want to get on a good routine of cardio to help me get some definition in my abs.

currently at around 12% bf


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## raginbrah (Jul 24, 2013)

I only bicycle for cardio.

Squats and Deads seemed to be best for my abs aside from Tren and ECA.


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## 69ingchipmunks (Jul 24, 2013)

50 secs med intensity, 10 secs high intensity. 20 mins straight. No breaks, basically for every minute 50 secs mid 10 high intensity. You'll burn fat so fast it will just be melting off you


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## NoCode8511 (Jul 24, 2013)

69ingchipmunks said:


> 50 secs med intensity, 10 secs high intensity. 20 mins straight. No breaks, basically for every minute 50 secs mid 10 high intensity. You'll burn fat so fast it will just be melting off you



^^^ this and ab's are made in the kitchen


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## kboy (Jul 24, 2013)

I do hit, 15 secs fast, 10 secs walk.


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## Dannie (Jul 24, 2013)

Cardio or ab workout are overrated. Diet is the key. In last 6 weeks I have lost 20lbs, and hence shed enough fat to have a 6 pack. Yet I have never done any cardio or ab exercises. 
Actual question I get asked almost every other day.


> -'What ab exercises have you been doing?'
> -'None mate'


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## The Prototype (Jul 24, 2013)

Dannie said:


> Cardio or ab workout are overrated. Diet is the key. In last 6 weeks I have lost 20lbs, and hence shed enough fat to have a 6 pack. Yet I have never done any cardio or ab exercises.
> Actual question I get asked almost every other day.



This. Diet is where it's at. I use to run 2-3 miles a day and my abs look better now then back then and i hardly do any cardio anymore but do abs everyday. But I was also natty back then so that may have a little to do with it. I've noticed the most noticeable change when my diet is dialed in.


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## SheriV (Jul 26, 2013)

^^ ditto on diet but I use cardio for lung health and when my diet isn't spot on


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## 69ingchipmunks (Jul 26, 2013)

NoCode8511 said:


> ^^^ this and ab's are made in the kitchen



Good point. Lower carbs for certain days then shock the body with high carb days


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## 69ingchipmunks (Jul 26, 2013)

kboy said:


> I do hit, 15 secs fast, 10 secs walk.



Wouldn't walk, run


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## svt2001 (Jul 26, 2013)

I've had decent results implementing 10 minutes of high intensity cardio to begin followed by 30 minutes of low intensity where I walk on a treadmill on an incline of 10 and a speed of 2.5 to 3.0.  I read the paper during walking so it doesn't feel like a waste of time.

This is similar to Lyle McDonald's stubborn fat loss solution.  It works and it's not that boring if you have a good book on deck.


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## svt2001 (Jul 26, 2013)

Also, make sure you eat clen and tren hard as some others have suggested.


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## Dannie (Jul 26, 2013)

svt2001 said:


> Also, make sure you eat clen and tren hard as some others have suggested.



Eat clen and tren hard is the best dieting advice you will ever get.

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2


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## theCaptn' (Jul 26, 2013)

Diet and HIIT cardio


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## sityslicker (Jul 26, 2013)

Of course dieting is important, but not everyone can get shredded on diet alone. Cardio is very important part of the equation for lots of us. 

I start off with 30 mins eod walking on treadmill or elliptical trying to keep heart rate at or slightly above 120 beats/min (target hr 65%). Each week I either add another session cardio day or time is add to my current sessions.


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## jshel12 (Jul 26, 2013)

Me personally I walk on a tread mill with incline set at 10.0 as fast as I can without having to jog or stop.  If I have to stop or have to jog to keep up I slow it down.  So usually incline at 10.0 and speed at 3.9 - 4.2   Sessions last anywhere from 25 -45 minutes. Ideally I like to do a 45 minute session after a  16 ounce cup of black coffee on empty stomach after I wake up.  Then another sessions later in day, if I train with weights I do my second session after that and make it about 25 minutes.  But thats in a perfect world. I have an on call job 24 hours a day 6 days a week and a son, so I do my best to keep it somewhat like I stated above.


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## jshel12 (Jul 26, 2013)

Even though I use a tread mill as I stated above, I've heard and read some bodybuilders state the step master is supperior for cardio as far as stripping the fat away and also the hardest.


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jul 27, 2013)

69ingchipmunks said:


> Wouldn't walk, run



Sprint mixed with a walk is fine.  

Walking allows you some recovery which enables you to sprint with greater intensity.  Intensity is a huge key. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jul 27, 2013)

sityslicker said:


> Of course dieting is important, but not everyone can get shredded on diet alone. Cardio is very important part of the equation for lots of us.
> 
> I start off with 30 mins eod walking on treadmill or elliptical trying to keep heart rate at or slightly above 120 beats/min (target hr 65%). Each week I either add another session cardio day or time is add to my current sessions.



*Research *

30 minute of walking at 65% Heart Rate Max has limited value.

*75% Plus*

A great training effect is to increase the intensity and shorten the time.

This promotes... 

*Excess Post Oxygen Consumption (EPOC) = Fat Loss*

This is akin to over charging your body's metabolic credit card.  You metabolism is elevated longer after you workout is over.  

As with your credit card, you pay back what you own with interest...more calorie.

*Based On Your Age*

At 35 years old, you will have better results if you perform Sprint Intervals, elevating your heart rate to 138 beat per minute 75%) or greater. 

*Cardio Training Time*

Twenty minutes or less of Sprint Intervals.

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jul 27, 2013)

jshel12 said:


> Even though I use a tread mill as I stated above, I've heard and read some bodybuilders state the step master is supperior for cardio as far as stripping the fat away and also the hardest.



*It NOT The Machine*

The treadmill is as effective as the Step Mill.  

*Excess Post Oxygen Consumption Is The Key*

Elevated EPOC jacks up your metabolism for hours. 

*Heart Rate*

Pushing your heart rate into the 75% Zone sporadically via Interval Sprint promotes EPOC.  

Thus, you can do with on a treadmill, Step Mill, Bike, Elliptical with Weight Circuit Training. 

Kenny Croxdale


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jul 27, 2013)

jshel12 said:


> Me personally I walk on a tread mill with incline set at 10.0 as fast as I can without having to jog or stop.  If I have to stop or have to jog to keep up I slow it down.  So usually incline at 10.0 and speed at 3.9 - 4.2   Sessions last anywhere from 25 -45 minutes. Ideally I like to do a 45 minute session after a  16 ounce cup of black coffee on empty stomach after I wake up.  Then another sessions later in day, if I train with weights I do my second session after that and make it about 25 minutes.  But thats in a perfect world. I have an on call job 24 hours a day 6 days a week and a son, so I do my best to keep it somewhat like I stated above.



*45 Minutes of Cardio*

Research show that beside burning up fat, you burn up muscle, as well.  

Dr Talk Cardio
https://www.rxmuscle.com/2013-01-11-01-57-36/muscle-college.html

Dr Norton and Wilson present an hour presentation on how High Intensity Interval Training increases muscle mass while decrease body fat. 

They go into how lengthy (like 45 minutes) cardio decreases muscle along with body fat. 

*Cardio On Empty*

This is an old myth about how when performed in a fasting state, more body fat is burned.  Research has demonstrated that it's not true and counter productive. 

*Bodybuilding.com - The Myth Of Cardio Before Breakfast*
Brad Schoenfeld

_"Fasted cardio makes even less sense when you take into account the impact of excess post-exercise oxygen consumption. EPOC, commonly referred to as the "afterburn," represents the number of calories expended after training. Guess what? *Eating before exercise promotes substantial increases in EPOC.*_

Kenny Croxdale


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## Swfl (Jul 27, 2013)

I personally like the TREN Hard program 500-750 mg TREN A/ wk and then just try to do cardio lol. All that will be left is a pile of bones and a sack of skin as you will have literally melted.
GICH


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## theCaptn' (Jul 27, 2013)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> *45 Minutes of Cardio*
> 
> Research show that beside burning up fat, you burn up muscle, as well.
> 
> ...



Kenny - what about fasted + high Lucine    ratio bcaas?


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jul 27, 2013)

theCaptn' said:


> Kenny - what about fasted + high Lucine    ratio bcaas?



Explain to me the point of Fasted plus Leucine or BCAA? 

Kenny Croxdale


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## theCaptn' (Jul 27, 2013)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> Explain to me the point of Fasted plus Leucine or BCAA?
> 
> Kenny Croxdale



Youre the Guru Kenny. Explain to me how it doesn't work!


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## jshel12 (Jul 27, 2013)

45 minutes maybe too much for some people, but 45 mins of fast walking works great for me.  Like I said I'm walking, not sprinting or jogging.


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## jshel12 (Jul 27, 2013)

I'm also on 300 mgs of test E a week and 300 mgs of tren E a week so I'm sure that would also help stop muscle loss.


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## theCaptn' (Jul 27, 2013)

jshel12 said:


> I'm also on 300 mgs of test E a week and 300 mgs of tren E a week so I'm sure that would also help stop muscle loss.



It should.

I'm on 30mg ED tren ace (210 EW) - even that low dose effects lung efficiency with cardio.

I'm wondering if the benefits of tren counteract this?

And Kenny, answer me goddamit!


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## Kenny Croxdale (Jul 28, 2013)

theCaptn' said:


> Youre the Guru Kenny. Explain to me how it doesn't work!



*Ask a Vague Question...Get A Vague Answer*

This would work better if you provided me with an explanation as to what the point of only ingesting Leucine or BCAA would do for you.  

Thus, what I am left with is a guessing, which is never good. 

Rather than ramble around trying to guess, let take the long view. 

*Excess Post Oxygen Consumption*

As you and most of those on this board know, High Intensity Interval Training elicits EPOC.  

EPOC insures that you metabolism is elevated for hours after an intense training session.  

EPOC is elevate whether you have a pre-workout protein/carbohydrate beverage/snack/meal, only ingest Leucine/BCAAs or perform your workout in a fasted state.  

That means no matter if you ingest (Leucine/BCAA or a protein/carb beverage) or if you preform your workout in a fasted state, the outcome with High Intensity Interval Training is the same.  You're metabolism is elevated for hours. 

*Growth Hormone*

Another factor that is conjured up in the case for fasted cardio is growth hormone is initially released.  

Ingestion of carbohydrates triggers insulin release which initially shuts down growth hormone release. 

However, research shows that a few hours later, growth hormone rebounded.

*Dietary supplements affect the anabolic hormones after weight-training exercise.*
Dietary supplements affect the anabolic hormo... [J Appl Physiol. 1994] - PubMed - NCBI

What is interesting is that growth hormone was elevate more with the protein/carbohydrate beverage than only a protein supplement.  

*Insulin*

Insulin is one of THE most anabolic hormone of the body.  It also depresses cortisol levels.  

Used at the right time, insulin promotes muscle growth.  

This is examined in... 

*Nutrient Timing *

Dr John Ivy is one of the leading researchers on nutrient time as a means of increasing muscle mass and minimizing body fat level.  Ivy literally wrote the book.

Ivy's Nutrient Timing  (book) is one the best at explaining how a Pre, Peri and Post-Workout protein/carbohydrate beverage is the most effective method at creating an anabolic environment for muscle growth.

The beauty of the book is that it is short, simple and inexpensive to purchase.

*Leucine/BCAA*

This bring us back to the question of "Explain to me the point of Fasted plus Leucine or BCAA?"

I am not a mind reader so I can only guess.  

*Crescent Wrench*

The use of Leucine/BCAA's only pre-workout is like using a crescent wrench to drive a nail into a board.  That works. 

*Hammer*

A protein/carbohydrate beverage Pre, Peri, and Post-Workout beverage is like using a hammer to drive a nail into a board. 

The hammer work much better than the crescent wrench. 

So, why not use the hammer?

Kenny Croxdale


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## theCaptn' (Jul 28, 2013)

Thanks Kenny. It was the GH blunting that I was avoiding.

I always appreciate your contribution to the board.


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## The Prototype (Jul 28, 2013)

theCaptn' said:


> Thanks Kenny. It was the GH blunting that I was avoiding.
> 
> I always appreciate your contribution to the board.



I agree. Very informative threads. I enjoy reading them.


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## lil-bit-slim (Aug 20, 2013)

Great info Kenny...much appreciated!


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## lil-bit-slim (Aug 20, 2013)

Kenny

Three protein shakes??? One before lifting? One during? and one after? ...do you also drink one before bed and in the morning?


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## lil-bit-slim (Aug 20, 2013)

or are you suggesting these protein shakes are before, during and after the HIIT?


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## lil-bit-slim (Aug 23, 2013)

While I'm waiting for Kenny to answer the above questions ^^^ I would like to bounce this cardio sesh off you guys and ask if it qualifies as HIIT???

Yesterday my roommate introduced me to a great hill run near our house, you can see the entire city from the top! So basically its about 100 yrd paved hill with a fairly steep incline, I would call it equivalent to maxing out the incline on the treadmill at least in some places. We run up the hill and walk back down, running up takes about 40-60 seconds and walking down can takes 2-4 minutes. We were only able to complete 4 yesterday (its harder than it sounds, I literally witnessed someone lose their lunch yesterday) and we're hoping to work our way up to 8-10 reps. Today I woke up and was like damn! my abs are looking more defined already! I've always been pretty close to a 6 pack without any cardio, in fact without any exercise at all...hoping this hill will get me "over the top" 

Is this appropriate HIIT training?


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## LAM (Aug 25, 2013)

lil-bit-slim said:


> While I'm waiting for Kenny to answer the above questions ^^^ I would like to bounce this cardio sesh off you guys and ask if it qualifies as HIIT???
> 
> Yesterday my roommate introduced me to a great hill run near our house, you can see the entire city from the top! So basically its about 100 yrd paved hill with a fairly steep incline, I would call it equivalent to maxing out the incline on the treadmill at least in some places. We run up the hill and walk back down, running up takes about 40-60 seconds and walking down can takes 2-4 minutes. We were only able to complete 4 yesterday (its harder than it sounds, I literally witnessed someone lose their lunch yesterday) and we're hoping to work our way up to 8-10 reps. Today I woke up and was like damn! my abs are looking more defined already! I've always been pretty close to a 6 pack without any cardio, in fact without any exercise at all...hoping this hill will get me "over the top"
> 
> Is this appropriate HIIT training?



yes it is.  high intensity cardio involves exercising at 100% maximum effort, i.e. sprinting.  this does two major things, it causes the greatest amounts of GH to be released from exercise and it also causes the fastest increase in the VO2Max.  the higher the VO2Max the greater the increase in the metabolic rate in the hours after exercise.  at the conclusion of high intensity exercise the body expends excess energy to restore the body to the pre-exercise state.  this causes the body to utilize more oxygen which elevates the metabolic rate.

* try to work your way up to 10 intervals of the all out sprint and do that no more than 2-3x a week maximum.


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## Powermaster (Aug 26, 2013)

Kenny Croxdale said:


> *Insulin*
> 
> Insulin is one of THE most anabolic hormone of the body.  It also depresses cortisol levels.
> 
> ...



That is a great book. One of the best I've read and one everyone should read.


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## lil-bit-slim (Aug 26, 2013)

LAM said:


> yes it is.  high intensity cardio involves exercising at 100% maximum effort, i.e. sprinting.  this does two major things, it causes the greatest amounts of GH to be released from exercise and it also causes the fastest increase in the VO2Max.  the higher the VO2Max the greater the increase in the metabolic rate in the hours after exercise.  at the conclusion of high intensity exercise the body expends excess energy to restore the body to the pre-exercise state.  this causes the body to utilize more oxygen which elevates the metabolic rate.
> 
> * try to work your way up to 10 intervals of the all out sprint and do that no more than 2-3x a week maximum.




Thank you for the reply. I'm going to try and go 2-3 time a week and probably do abs the days in between. Lots of great replies, much appreciated guys!


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## flood (Aug 27, 2013)

Sprint
  Warm up 5 min.
  50-100 yard course to sprint 8 sec minimum each rep. for HGH release (10-30 sec is the goal for me)
  5-10 reps of 400-800 yards   (6 reps of 100 yards for me)
  Walk 2x the distance sprinted to cool down, 1 to 2 minutes (do not jog to keep HR up)
  Sprint 3x a week if strength training  (2x a week if other training)

Health & Fitness Solutions: Don't Just Run: Sprint!
  Start your workout by warming up for about 5 minutes. Measure out a course from 50-100 yards (or meters) long. Remember that you need to sprint at least 8 seconds before your body sends the signals that produce human growth hormone. Do 5-10 repetitions. The total distance of your sprints should not exceed 400-800 yards or meters. Between repetitions, walk slowly at least twice the distance that you ran. This should take from 1-2 minutes. Don't jog to "keep your heart rate up."


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12137178?dopt=Abstract
  Serum hGH also remained elevated for 90-120 min after the 30 s sprint compared with approximately 60 min after the 6 s sprint.


http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/phil3.htm


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## MuscleGauge1 (Sep 2, 2013)

Cardio isn't necessary for a six pack at all. You just need to really focus on diet and nutrition if you do cardio stick to HIIT training for that. It's the best thing out there for sure. I would also suggest training 4 days a week at least and make sure you are squatting.


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## theCaptn' (Sep 3, 2013)

Cardio and squating is pure hell


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## Christsean (Sep 3, 2013)

theCaptn' said:


> Diet and HIIT cardio



^^^^^this!  HIIT gives you more bang for your time.


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## theCaptn' (Sep 3, 2013)

...


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## MuscleGauge1 (Sep 3, 2013)

Cardio isn't necessary for a six pack at all. You just need to focus on your diet and nutrition and keep lifting heavy. Squats and deads are great Ab exercises. Work abs twice a week. You will see results. This is the way I got my six pack.


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## massfx22 (Sep 5, 2013)

Diet first, cardio second. many guys stay very lean year round because theyre meticulous with their diets


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## MuscleGauge1 (Sep 5, 2013)

This is some solid information here. Make sure you follow it I agree with everything. And if you are going to do cardio, make sure it's HIIT training. Start out with 20 mins then move your way up from there. It works great! My favorite type of cardio.


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## complication (Sep 5, 2013)

It's more about diet than anything else.


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## lil-bit-slim (Jun 19, 2015)

Those of you who indicated that it was your diet that really helped you get "shredded," would you please share your diet with us in this thread? or leave a link to another thread?

Thank you!


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