# newbie F*%$ed up!!! PLS HELP



## Ascension (Dec 21, 2011)

Hi Guys,

Well yes I did the most stupid newbie thing one could...  

Went ahead without doing sufficient due diligence/research and as a result I have a problem I'm not sure how to solve/fix. 

I have been training on an off for the last 6yrs and when I first got into training I was doing body-building type training (pyramid sets etc) and decided to try a 4wk cycle of M1T (only the one course)

I had great results with the M1T and kept all of my gains however...
I now believe that the PCT wasn't sufficiently strong or for long enough or perhaps both. I stopped training for a while due to work pressures and although I kept the muscle mass I had gained in the previous 6 months but I piled on a few pounds of blubber too.

I have been back in regular training for months at a time and then off for a while again, I thought that the fatty tissue on my chest was just that. Excess fat that would go when I finally got into a regular routine and got properly lean again.

Finally the six pac stomach of beginning to show through but the fat is still evident on my chest & my bodyfat is now down into single digits.

I'm worried that this might be gyno?
If so is surgery the only answer?

From my limited understanding of anabolics, it seems that it might be possible to do a course of something which both boosts testosterone and vanquishes oestrogen to get rid of the gyno (if thats what it is) and then ensure I have a proper PCT for long enough at full strength and then lower the dosage slowly.

Then I thing that will be me leaving well alone.
Can anybody advise?


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## Night_Wolf (Dec 21, 2011)

Ascension said:


> Finally the six pac stomach of beginning to show through but the fat is still evident on my chest & my bodyfat is now down into single digits.
> 
> I'm worried that this might be gyno?
> If so is surgery the only answer?
> ...



You don't know what are you talking about lol

If you don't feel any lump under your nipples than is not a gyno.


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## Ezskanken (Dec 21, 2011)

Search for a post created by Eric Potratz, called 16 ways to fight gyno.  Very informative read and should ease your nerves...

Good luck brother.


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## Night_Wolf (Dec 21, 2011)

Ezskanken said:


> Search for a post created by Eric Potratz, called 16 ways to fight gyno.  Very informative read and should ease your nerves...
> 
> Good luck brother.



I think he finished cycle like 6+ months ago lol


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## Ascension (Dec 21, 2011)

Night_Wolf said:


> You don't know what are you talking about lol
> 
> If you don't feel any lump under your nipples than is not a gyno.



I tried to make that quite apparent in my OP...
Thats why I am asking for help.

I thought that gyno was the development of breast tissue in men normally caused by oestrogen imbalance after using anabolics.

In my case (it my be me age) but before using M1T I had never had any fat on my chest. I had thought it was just blubber that would disappear when I got myself properly lean and so hadn't worried about it but...

No I am down to about 9% BF and the fat on my chest hasn't budged, that why I am asking for help.

If not gyno, what could be causing this phenomena?
Can it be dealt with in the way I mentioned?


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## Ascension (Dec 21, 2011)

Ezskanken said:


> Search for a post created by Eric Potratz, called 16 ways to fight gyno.  Very informative read and should ease your nerves...
> 
> Good luck brother.



Thank you Ezskansen.


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## Ezskanken (Dec 21, 2011)

Ascension said:


> Thank you Ezskansen.



Anytime, like I said, it's a great read and should ease your nerves about the whole gyno deal...


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## stfuandliftbtch (Dec 21, 2011)

cut it out with a knife.. no big deal


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## Ascension (Dec 22, 2011)

stfuandliftbtch said:


> cut it out with a knife.. no big deal



Erm... OK thanks for that.

I think I will continue researching for a rather less drastic solution.


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## colochine (Dec 22, 2011)

Post pics...


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## Night_Wolf (Dec 22, 2011)

colochine said:


> Post pics...



This.


But my bet is that is just fat.


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## styles (Dec 22, 2011)

yea, lets see those man boobs!!


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## chucko (Dec 22, 2011)

I had a bad case of non AAS related gyno a few years ago (caused by high estrogen which was caused by stress/thyroid problems). It was about the size of grape.

I got a 1 month prescription for 1mg/day of arimdex and the lump went away completely.


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## Ezskanken (Dec 22, 2011)

You find the article yet?


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## colochine (Dec 22, 2011)

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/a...tment-article-16-ways-fight-gynecomastia.html

Here it is.


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## Ascension (Dec 22, 2011)

Hi guys, yes thanks read the article earlier today just not had a chance to chime in again since.

Convinced (relieved) its not gyno now...     phew!
Perhaps it is just fat, its just off though that when I was younger I didn't carry any fat over of chest at all.

There are no lumps, just soft... well like breast tissue.

I'm 32 now.
Is that likely?
I was always under the impression that your genetics determines where you carry excess fat and ultimately where it disappears from last when you get lean.

Maybe its in my head but I felt that after the M1T cycle I carried more fat over my chest than ever before in my life.

I will upload some pics later


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## Logman (Dec 22, 2011)

9% BF and fatty manboobs?  Can't say I've ever seen that.  Sounds trippy.  Would be interesting to see pics to compare with teh rest of your body composition.  Most people can hit 20% before fat hits the pecs.


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## Ascension (Dec 23, 2011)

Hi Guys,

Fatty man boob pictures uploaded...

Its not all fat btw, my pecs have always been quite prominent all my life.
But maybe the top 20% is soft tissue covering the muscle.

Is doing a course of something to bulk and cut the last fat away a good idea then?
My diet is fairly clean but I seem to have hit a plateau in shifting the last bit and although I have dropped 2.5inches off my waist line in the last 4 months the fat over my chest has remained the same!

Thats why I was getting concerned...

And yes I know my body could do with seeing some sunshine!
Remember its snowing here in England right now!


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## Ascension (Dec 23, 2011)

lol, just spotted the remnants of making ebay parcels up this afternoon using my bed as a work bench lol!

Ahh well, can't be bothered re-doing the pics!
I know i'm not sleeping on cardboard lol


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## Logman (Dec 24, 2011)

Man, you nowhere near 9% BF.  More like 19%.  So the fat is just distributed around your body and some of it is on your pecs.  You have a lot more lard left than "shifting the last bit".  You've got at least a 10-15kg cut in your immediate future if you want to really shift that last little bit. 

Yea, PHs will help shift the fat but I don't think you need it for quite a few months.  A simple calorie deficient diet and cardio will do the job for 90% of the mass you want to lose.  I did a 10kg cut over 4 months and found it pretty easy and I prolly had less BF than you.  My stubborn lard is over the abs rather than over the pecs (but you have it pretty evenly distributed IMO).

You've got a decent base though and when you really do cut down to about 12% you'll be looking pretty jacked.  Best of luck, mon.


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## ecot3c inside (Dec 24, 2011)

that doesn't look like 9% to me lol! doesn't look like gyno, just fat.


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## swollen (Dec 24, 2011)

ecot3c inside said:


> that doesn't look like 9% to me lol! doesn't look like gyno, just fat.



^^This...agreed...


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## Beast236911 (Dec 24, 2011)

If your getting any kind of lump take letrozole. all it takes is a little bit under the toungue everyday until the lumps go away completely and with this stuff they will go away completely. know from experience!


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## Curlingcadys (Dec 24, 2011)

when and if you actually do cut down to 9% you probably wont have your man boobs anymore. You're on your way 10% to go!


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## Ascension (Dec 24, 2011)

right ok then.

So general consensus i'm still a lard arse lol!
That gets rid of any fear anything more serious at least!

I measured this using an accu-measure calliper.
Is there a specific technique to using these?
I suspect that I have not gotten the correct measurement

Or a better way to measure (to track progress)
I have been using the principals in Tom Venuto's 'Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle' book.
Its been great so far! and I would highly recommend to anyone.
Anybody else read it?

No more mince pies over december then..

Thank you all for your advice 
and a merry Christmas to all of you!


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## Ezskanken (Dec 24, 2011)

No your not a lard ass, just not the bf percentage you thought you were.  Trust me, there are people way off, physique wise, that call themselves in shape/lean.  You seem determined enough to make a change to your body with healthy choices.  Keep focused, and you can enjoy the holidays even a little...next year is right around the corner, ha ha!


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## Digitalash (Dec 24, 2011)

Ascension said:


> right ok then.
> 
> So general consensus i'm still a lard arse lol!
> That gets rid of any fear anything more serious at least!
> ...


 

At best calipers are a way of tracking your progress, they're not very accurate at all but if you do the test exactly the same every time you can at least tell if you're moving in the right direction. The only way to get a true bodyfat test is in the submersion tank which is somewhat expensive and inconvenient, just watch the mirror and take pics to compare yourself. Anyway you're way off 9%, probably closer to 20%. It doesn't really look like gyno though so just keep cutting and it will shape up. I'm not sure exactly what diet advice the book you mentioned is giving you but the most important thing is that you're in a calorie deficit and are getting plenty of protein. Getting a good portion of your calories from fat/protein and limiting your carb intake as much as possible to complex carbs and pre/post workout. If you think you've plateaued in weight loss it's because you're still eating too many calories. Don't drop the cals too low or you will lose alot of muscle but a deficit of 500cals or so should be ok. If you'd like to run a cycle during this time you could go even lower than that. If you don't feel a soft squishy lump behind the nipple it's likely not gyno, it's fairly obvious that it's neither fat nor muscle when you feel it.


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## Curlingcadys (Dec 24, 2011)

no 19% isn't fat. Competition standards yes it is, real life its known as "gotta few pounds to lose" and we'll be good to go. Most look pretty good at 12-13%, dropping below that looks great.  All depends on your goals and desires, but getting that % down will reduce your breasteses.  I got the same issue around the 20% mark but it goes away when i near 12%(ish).  Don't sweat it keep working.


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## Ascension (Dec 24, 2011)

Going to do this event...

Artemis Great Kindrochit Quadrathlon

in July 2012...    again!

So for sure I'm determined when I set my mind to a goal.

Determined to get into the best shape of my life in 2012, fitter than I was when I did the above event back in 2009.

But going to shift the blubber this time too lol!

Really, thank you to all of you for the positive encouragement 

Wish you all a wonderful Christmas!


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## collins (Dec 24, 2011)

your not 9% for sure but so what i bet most people on this forum have had a few lbs to lose including myself. get some protein powder take it 3 times a day you wont have room for junk food and your body will have the protein it needs to grow. its that simple. morning, noon, and night. you will start to notice the difference in about 3 days. make sure you take your vitamines as well.


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## Logman (Dec 24, 2011)

Yea, best change for me was going from 2 sccops twice a day to 2 scoops 3 times a day.  One shake for morning, one post workout around 3-4pm and one before bed (all with low-fat milk).  With that it was easy to get away with a light lunch (just eggs) and a normal dinner with no carbs.  It was pretty much a keto diet but I doubt I was in full keto.  I do a lot of martial arts (kickboxing, boxing, karate) so I'd normally have a big glass of OJ, a banana and maybe a small white rice ball wrapped in dried seaweed before a training session to give me some extra energy/stamina.

Cutting's fucking easy.  Wife my wife could understand that, heh.


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## Digitalash (Dec 24, 2011)

Keep protein high, reduce calories as necessary. Replace a good percentage of your carbs with protein/fats and actually keep track of the number of calories you're eating. There's really not much to it, throw in some cardio a few times a week and lift hard and you'll be able to drop that fat easily. If you decide to run some type of AAS I'd save it til your bodyfat is close to 10%, as that is when you will need the assistance the most.


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## Ascension (Dec 26, 2011)

Thank you guys.

What I am doing at the moment...

fasted early morning cardio consists of Roadwork covering about 4 miles interspersed with calisthenics such as handstand press ups, dips, hindu squats, fingertip press ups then lighter exercises so as to utilise (I think its called) the 'reserve pyramid super-set' principal.

Training everyday like that and some days running/swimming in the afternoon too.

I am eating 5-6 times per day but I am beginning to suspect that I have not dropped my calories sufficiently yet. I am a chef, so eating right is not a problem (making healthy, clean food taste yummy that is). but being surrounded by mince pies, unwrapped sitting on top of a warm oven crying eat me eat me eat me...       can be testing!

I'm sure you can all relate some-how or other!

I need to pay more attention to measuring calories that much is obvious.
If anybody is interested I'll post some recipes for tasty meals.

It will be nice to give something back to the community


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## Ascension (Dec 30, 2011)

Just want to say another round of thanks guys!

I now KNOW thats I hadn't reduced the calories enough.

Now I have and in just under a week and can see a difference!
Will post pics in a few more weeks or when I next "think" I've achieved single digits lol


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## Ascension (Feb 4, 2012)

Progress!!!


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## Logman (Feb 4, 2012)

Huge difference, well done man!


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