# Test Results back. Estrogen high even with nolva? Help?



## meathead1 (Apr 17, 2012)

Just got my blood work back.  Test is +1500 so that's all good but my estrogen is 229 (that of an ovulating female) I've been religiously talking 20mg of novla everyday.  Does the novla actually lower the level of estrogen or just block it?  If it's not work should I be scrurrying to find a source for some arimidex that I don't have?


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## heavyiron (Apr 17, 2012)

Nolvadex raises circulating E2 but blocks its action in certain tissue like the breast.


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## SloppyJ (Apr 17, 2012)

So basically you're saying that nolva is a competitive inhibtor? Instead of binding to the E2, it competes with it to bind to the active site on the enzyme leaving E2 free to circulate. 

OP, here's a basic read that will help you understand. Look at the 2nd paragraph.

What Are Aromatase Inhibitors? | Breast Cancer Action


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## lee111s (Apr 17, 2012)

You need an AI like aromasin.


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## acemon (Apr 17, 2012)

Aromasin, arimidex, formeron are AIs. Save the nolva for when you have issues with gyno or when you pct.


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## Goldenera (Apr 17, 2012)

acemon said:


> Aromasin, arimidex, formeron are AIs. Save the nolva for when you have issues with gyno or when you pct.



What he said


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## Digitalash (Apr 17, 2012)

yerp nolva as a SERM only blocks receptors, you need an AI to actually lower estrogen


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## overlord (Apr 17, 2012)

It's amazing to me that idiots will put drugs into their bodies without having a remote idea of what it is or how its function is exerted. That shit should all be researched during the planning stages of a cycle. I know that shit and I haven't even done a cycle before.


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## bjg (Apr 17, 2012)

overlord said:


> It's amazing to me that idiots will put drugs into their bodies without having a remote idea of what it is or how its function is exerted. That shit should all be researched during the planning stages of a cycle. I know that shit and I haven't even done a cycle before.


^^^ tell me about that...they just use their bodies for experimentation how smart this can be?


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## gm09 (Apr 17, 2012)

overlord said:


> It's amazing to me that idiots will put drugs into their bodies without having a remote idea of what it is or how its function is exerted. That shit should all be researched during the planning stages of a cycle. I know that shit and I haven't even done a cycle before.



you must get amazed pretty often because i dont know about you, but  probably 8/10 guys i know who use do not know jack shit. ive had a guy  tell me just do pct on weekdays, no need for weekend. ive had a guy who  is several cycles in ask me what an AI is, the list goes on and on


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## SteroidalGazelle (Apr 17, 2012)

Ive had many guys that used gear for years tell me all surprised WTF IS PCT? lol


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## vannesb (Apr 17, 2012)

gm09 said:


> you must get amazed pretty often because i dont know about you, but  probably 8/10 guys i know who use do not know jack shit. ive had a guy  tell me just do pct on weekdays, no need for weekend. ive had a guy who  is several cycles in ask me what an AI is, the list goes on and on



I ran into a guy at the gym this week he was fucking HUGE!  Took first place in a comp recently we got talking about gear, the guy does no PCT he is 28 yrs old and tells me i just quit cold turkey. I explained the issues and his comment was i am still big! Amazed me!


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## gm09 (Apr 18, 2012)

vannesb said:


> I ran into a guy at the gym this week he was fucking HUGE!  Took first place in a comp recently we got talking about gear, the guy does no PCT he is 28 yrs old and tells me i just quit cold turkey. I explained the issues and his comment was i am still big! Amazed me!




no joke i know a guy who is 27, been on and off since he was 18 and also did not know about pct. never heard about clomid just about nolva if you get gyno... also claimed his nuts have never shrank from juice. and yea dude looks really good.


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## indrox1 (Apr 18, 2012)

Well its a good thing everyone on this board is here to help people that dont have all the knowledge about chemical enhancing drugs.


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## meathead1 (Apr 18, 2012)

Hats off to overlord for feeling the need to chime in and call me an idiot. Lots of class!  I've met several people on this board that I've been amazed by their willingness to help guess that goes the other direction too. Having done further research there are some definate advantages to keeping your estrogen higher during a cycle as long as it doesn't go to the wrong place. So I'm going to stay on track with the nolva but I appreciate almost everyone's input.


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## Digitalash (Apr 18, 2012)

as long as you're not running a 19-nor, low dose nolva will at least prevent gyno. Whether it prevents water retention/high bp/acne etc. I don't know as I've never seen any evidence of that.


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## heckler7 (Apr 18, 2012)

overlord said:


> It's amazing to me that idiots will put drugs into their bodies without having a remote idea of what it is or how its function is exerted. That shit should all be researched during the planning stages of a cycle. I know that shit and I haven't even done a cycle before.


Why does that amaze you, I dont know a single person that researched a drug a doctor prescribed them before using it or a supplement they bought at the local shop.


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## overlord (Apr 18, 2012)

meathead1 said:


> Hats off to overlord for feeling the need to chime in and call me an idiot. Lots of class!  I've met several people on this board that I've been amazed by their willingness to help guess that goes the other direction too. Having done further research there are some definate advantages to keeping your estrogen higher during a cycle as long as it doesn't go to the wrong place. So I'm going to stay on track with the nolva but I appreciate almost everyone's input.



No problem. Just because you are offended by the truth doesn't mean we should alter the truth to spare your feelings. Do you think it would have been a good idea to do that research *before* you started having issues?



heckler7 said:


> Why does that amaze you, I dont know a single person that researched a drug a doctor prescribed them before using it or a supplement they bought at the local shop.



It's not hard to do research on a drug you get from a doc, especially when you consider that they come with a sheet describing the drug, its effects, and all the potential side effects. So, you've now 'met' one person who researches drugs prescribed by doctors. I also research supplements before taking them. I thought that was a pretty normal thing for people to do.


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## heckler7 (Apr 18, 2012)

overlord said:


> No problem. Just because you are offended by the truth doesn't mean we should alter the truth to spare your feelings. Do you think it would have been a good idea to do that research *before* you started having issues?
> 
> 
> 
> It's not hard to do research on a drug you get from a doc, especially when you consider that they come with a sheet describing the drug, its effects, and all the potential side effects. So, you've now 'met' one person who researches drugs prescribed by doctors. I also research supplements before taking them. I thought that was a pretty normal thing for people to do.


look bodybuilders and especially people on this forum, thats all we do is research. But the general public or noob for that matter doesnt. I'm not trolling here I just want an honest opinion, do you really think that anyone you know family, work, friends, researches anything they take?


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## FTW34 (Apr 18, 2012)

give the kid a break, he did the best thing he could do...ask


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## overlord (Apr 19, 2012)

heckler7 said:


> look bodybuilders and especially people on this forum, *thats all we do is research*.



Speak for yourself.



> But the general public or noob for that matter doesnt. I'm not trolling here I just want an honest opinion, do you really think that anyone you know family, work, friends, researches anything they take?



Obviously not. However, taking drugs on recommendation from a physician and taking OTC supplements is vastly different from taking prescription drugs without a physician's guidance. Especially when you KNOW some of the potential side effects of taking a cavalier approach to AAS and the associated drugs.


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## Grozny (Apr 19, 2012)

meathead1 said:


> Just got my blood work back.  Test is +1500 so that's all good but my estrogen is 229 (that of an ovulating female) I've been religiously talking 20mg of novla everyday.  Does the novla actually lower the level of estrogen or just block it?  If it's not work should I be scrurrying to find a source for some arimidex that I don't have?



You have the benefit of lab work, now a small dose of arimidex every few days can be fine for *managing estrogen excess. *Arimidex is typically stronger than nolvadex (except for dealing with oxymetholone, which it cannot address).


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## Digitalash (Apr 19, 2012)

I've heard something similar before but never heard a full explanation grozny. Why exactly is an AI often innefective against drol induced gyno? One explanation I've heard was that it actually can bind to estrogen receptors itself so there is no conversion necessary for side effects to happen, thus blocking the receptor with a serm is the only foolproof way. Does this make any sense or am I way off base?


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## Grozny (Apr 19, 2012)

Digitalash said:


> I've heard something similar before but never heard a full explanation grozny. Why exactly is an AI often innefective against drol induced gyno? One explanation I've heard was that it actually can bind to estrogen receptors itself so there is no conversion necessary for side effects to happen, thus blocking the receptor with a serm is the only foolproof way. Does this make any sense or am I way off base?



A main reason is because that oxy does not directly convert to estrogen in the body.This steroid is a derivative of dyhydrotestosterone and as such cannot be aromatised.Anti aromatse compounds such as cytadren and arimidex will likewise not effect the relative estrogenicity of this steroid.Some have suggested that high level of estrogenic activity in oxy is actuall due to the drug action as a progestin similar to the nandrolone.The side effect of both estrogens and progestin can be very similar which might have made this explanation a plausible one.*


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## Tysdon (Apr 20, 2012)

heckler7 said:


> Why does that amaze you, I dont know a single person that researched a drug a doctor prescribed them before using it or a supplement they bought at the local shop.



you dont know a single person? you must hang around with some real dummies. I look up EVERYTHING the doctor has ever given me, this includes antibiotics. No I don't read research journals and shit but I at least take a cursory look about what the chemical is and what it does before I put it in my body. This is especially true with supplements. Are you telling me you go into your local GNC/Vitamin Shoppe and just say. "HEY MAN WUTS GONNA GET ME SWOLE!??" If I'm gonna spend $30-60 on some shit I look it up beforehand. Jesus christ.


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## Tysdon (Apr 20, 2012)

Grozny said:


> A main reason is because that oxy does not directly convert to estrogen in the body.This steroid is a derivative of dyhydrotestosterone and as such cannot be aromatised.Anti aromatse compounds such as cytadren and arimidex will likewise not effect the relative estrogenicity of this steroid.Some have suggested that high level of estrogenic activity in oxy is actuall due to the drug action as a progestin similar to the nandrolone.The side effect of both estrogens and progestin can be very similar which might have made this explanation a plausible one.*



So what you're saying is if I start seeing gyno on Methadrol the aromasin wont stop it and I should take Nolva till it goes away?


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